# The Right To Destroy Jewish History



## Sixties Fan

I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.

I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.

I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.

We all know what has happened since 1920.

But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?

Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?

This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?

Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
 The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.

The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
----
In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.

This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.

Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.

The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
---------------------------
---------------------------------------------------

Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?

Which one of you would dare do so?

Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?

Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.

I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.

Questions:

How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?

How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?

What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
(I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )

DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?


----------



## MJB12741

Sixties Fan said:


> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?



Now that Jerusalem is off the table for negotiations, the Palestinians have a golden opportunity to now seek peace with Israel before they lose even more.


----------



## abi

Sixties Fan said:


> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land


There is no such thing as "Jewish land."



Sixties Fan said:


> It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years


It was almost entirely Muslim and Christian for the last 1000 years before the zionists came from another continent.



Sixties Fan said:


> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


NOT A NEWS SOURCE! That site is a blog and vomits out the zionist narrative that only the most blind will latch on to.



Sixties Fan said:


> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.


It appears that the wall you worship at is actually the wall of a Roman fort. Indee even admitted this. He claimed this is known and has been for some time.



Sixties Fan said:


> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?


Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.



Sixties Fan said:


> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?


Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.



Sixties Fan said:


> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )


Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.



Sixties Fan said:


> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?


This is what the zionists do and every time the world votes it is a landslide against your fascist leaders.

Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.


----------



## abi

MJB12741 said:


> Now that Jerusalem is off the table for negotiations, the Palestinians have a golden opportunity to now seek peace with Israel before they lose even more.


Can you simultaneously colonize your neighbors and still claim you want peace?


----------



## MJB12741

abi said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as "Jewish land."
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was almost entirely Muslim and Christian for the last 1000 years before the zionists came from another continent.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> NOT A NEWS SOURCE! That site is a blog and vomits out the zionist narrative that only the most blind will latch on to.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It appears that the wall you worship at is actually the wall of a Roman fort. Indee even admitted this. He claimed this is known and has been for some time.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is what the zionists do and every time the world votes it is a landslide against your fascist leaders.
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.
Click to expand...


"Right of return"!  You bring up an outstanding point.  Why is it that no Arab country will grant their Palestinians a "right of return"?


----------



## Sixties Fan

abi said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that Jerusalem is off the table for negotiations, the Palestinians have a golden opportunity to now seek peace with Israel before they lose even more.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you simultaneously colonize your neighbors and still claim you want peace?
Click to expand...

Dear Mr. Goebbles,

You may have returned as Abi, it still does not give you the right to reject what you have already said yourself.
The Jews are the Hebrews.

As the descendants of the Hebrews they have all the rights to the Land of Israel.  All of it, even if 80% of it has ended up in the hands of the invading Arabs.

How odd that only Muslims reject the Jews as being the descendants of the Hebrews and Israelites.

Christians do not do it.  So much so that any and all excavations by Christian groups have Preserved the Jewish identity of those places they found.  Just as they preserved the Christians and Muslim and Turkish identity of each excavation.

But not Muslims.
But not Arabs.
Not since 1948.  
And especially NOT since 1967.

Tell us Mr. Goebbles, how is the end of the destruction of Jewish identity and heritage going to be achieved?

When are you going to stop serving the Muslim masters who are to conquer the world and destroy everything non Muslim and start helping all the cultures of the world to survive.....why?

Because each and every culture in this world has the right to exist.

But again, with the Palestinians telling the world that they are the descendants of the ancient Canaanites......


WHY ARE THEY DESTROYING THEIR OWN HERITAGE AND HISTORY ??????


----------



## fanger

Sand began his work by looking for research studies about forcible exile of Jews from the area now bordered by modern Israel, and its surrounding regions. He was astonished that he could find no such literature, he says, given that the expulsion of Jews from the region is viewed as a constitutive event in Jewish history. The conclusion he came to from his subsequent investigation is that the expulsion simply did not happen, that no one exiled the Jewish people from the region, and that theJewish diaspora is essentially a modern invention. He accounts for the appearance of millions of Jews around the Mediterranean and elsewhere as something that came about primarily through the religious conversion of local people, saying that Judaism, contrary to popular opinion, was very much a "converting religion" in former times. He holds that mass conversions were first brought about by the Hasmoneans under the influence of Hellenism, and continued until Christianity rose to dominance in the fourth century CE.[18]

*Jewish origins[edit]*
Sand argues that it is likely that the ancestry of most contemporary Jews stems mainly from outside the Land of Israel and that a "nation-race" of Jews with a common origin never existed, and that just as most Christians and Muslims are the progeny of converted people, not of the first Christians and Muslims, Jews are also descended from converts. According to Sand, Judaism was originally, like its two cousins, a proselytising religion, and mass conversions to Judaism occurred among the Khazars in the Caucasus, Berber tribes in North Africa, and in the Himyarite Kingdom of the Arabian Peninsula.

According to Sand, the original Jews living in Israel, contrary to popular belief, were not exiled by the Romans following the Bar Kokhba revolt.[18] The Romans permitted most Jews to remain in the country. Rather, the story of the exile was a myth promoted by early Christians to recruit Jews to the new faith. They portrayed that event as a divine punishment imposed on the Jews for having rejected the Christian gospel. Sand writes that "Christians wanted later generations of Jews to believe that their ancestors had been exiled as a punishment from God."[19] Following the Arab conquest of Palestine in the 7th century, many local Jews converted to Islam and were assimilated among the Arab conquerors. Sand concludes that these converts are the ancestors of the contemporary Palestinians.[20]

The Invention of the Jewish People - Wikipedia


----------



## Sixties Fan

fanger said:


> Sand began his work by looking for research studies about forcible exile of Jews from the area now bordered by modern Israel, and its surrounding regions. He was astonished that he could find no such literature, he says, given that the expulsion of Jews from the region is viewed as a constitutive event in Jewish history. The conclusion he came to from his subsequent investigation is that the expulsion simply did not happen, that no one exiled the Jewish people from the region, and that theJewish diaspora is essentially a modern invention. He accounts for the appearance of millions of Jews around the Mediterranean and elsewhere as something that came about primarily through the religious conversion of local people, saying that Judaism, contrary to popular opinion, was very much a "converting religion" in former times. He holds that mass conversions were first brought about by the Hasmoneans under the influence of Hellenism, and continued until Christianity rose to dominance in the fourth century CE.[18]
> 
> *Jewish origins[edit]*
> Sand argues that it is likely that the ancestry of most contemporary Jews stems mainly from outside the Land of Israel and that a "nation-race" of Jews with a common origin never existed, and that just as most Christians and Muslims are the progeny of converted people, not of the first Christians and Muslims, Jews are also descended from converts. According to Sand, Judaism was originally, like its two cousins, a proselytising religion, and mass conversions to Judaism occurred among the Khazars in the Caucasus, Berber tribes in North Africa, and in the Himyarite Kingdom of the Arabian Peninsula.
> 
> According to Sand, the original Jews living in Israel, contrary to popular belief, were not exiled by the Romans following the Bar Kokhba revolt.[18] The Romans permitted most Jews to remain in the country. Rather, the story of the exile was a myth promoted by early Christians to recruit Jews to the new faith. They portrayed that event as a divine punishment imposed on the Jews for having rejected the Christian gospel. Sand writes that "Christians wanted later generations of Jews to believe that their ancestors had been exiled as a punishment from God."[19] Following the Arab conquest of Palestine in the 7th century, many local Jews converted to Islam and were assimilated among the Arab conquerors. Sand concludes that these converts are the ancestors of the contemporary Palestinians.[20]
> 
> The Invention of the Jewish People - Wikipedia


Start your own thread on that.

You are OFF TOPIC  !!!!


----------



## fanger

Sixties Fan said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sand began his work by looking for research studies about forcible exile of Jews from the area now bordered by modern Israel, and its surrounding regions. He was astonished that he could find no such literature, he says, given that the expulsion of Jews from the region is viewed as a constitutive event in Jewish history. The conclusion he came to from his subsequent investigation is that the expulsion simply did not happen, that no one exiled the Jewish people from the region, and that theJewish diaspora is essentially a modern invention. He accounts for the appearance of millions of Jews around the Mediterranean and elsewhere as something that came about primarily through the religious conversion of local people, saying that Judaism, contrary to popular opinion, was very much a "converting religion" in former times. He holds that mass conversions were first brought about by the Hasmoneans under the influence of Hellenism, and continued until Christianity rose to dominance in the fourth century CE.[18]
> 
> *Jewish origins[edit]*
> Sand argues that it is likely that the ancestry of most contemporary Jews stems mainly from outside the Land of Israel and that a "nation-race" of Jews with a common origin never existed, and that just as most Christians and Muslims are the progeny of converted people, not of the first Christians and Muslims, Jews are also descended from converts. According to Sand, Judaism was originally, like its two cousins, a proselytising religion, and mass conversions to Judaism occurred among the Khazars in the Caucasus, Berber tribes in North Africa, and in the Himyarite Kingdom of the Arabian Peninsula.
> 
> According to Sand, the original Jews living in Israel, contrary to popular belief, were not exiled by the Romans following the Bar Kokhba revolt.[18] The Romans permitted most Jews to remain in the country. Rather, the story of the exile was a myth promoted by early Christians to recruit Jews to the new faith. They portrayed that event as a divine punishment imposed on the Jews for having rejected the Christian gospel. Sand writes that "Christians wanted later generations of Jews to believe that their ancestors had been exiled as a punishment from God."[19] Following the Arab conquest of Palestine in the 7th century, many local Jews converted to Islam and were assimilated among the Arab conquerors. Sand concludes that these converts are the ancestors of the contemporary Palestinians.[20]
> 
> The Invention of the Jewish People - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> Start your own thread on that.
> 
> You are OFF TOPIC  !!!!
Click to expand...

The Topic is
*Jewish History, most of which is invented*


----------



## abi

fanger said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sand began his work by looking for research studies about forcible exile of Jews from the area now bordered by modern Israel, and its surrounding regions. He was astonished that he could find no such literature, he says, given that the expulsion of Jews from the region is viewed as a constitutive event in Jewish history. The conclusion he came to from his subsequent investigation is that the expulsion simply did not happen, that no one exiled the Jewish people from the region, and that theJewish diaspora is essentially a modern invention. He accounts for the appearance of millions of Jews around the Mediterranean and elsewhere as something that came about primarily through the religious conversion of local people, saying that Judaism, contrary to popular opinion, was very much a "converting religion" in former times. He holds that mass conversions were first brought about by the Hasmoneans under the influence of Hellenism, and continued until Christianity rose to dominance in the fourth century CE.[18]
> 
> *Jewish origins[edit]*
> Sand argues that it is likely that the ancestry of most contemporary Jews stems mainly from outside the Land of Israel and that a "nation-race" of Jews with a common origin never existed, and that just as most Christians and Muslims are the progeny of converted people, not of the first Christians and Muslims, Jews are also descended from converts. According to Sand, Judaism was originally, like its two cousins, a proselytising religion, and mass conversions to Judaism occurred among the Khazars in the Caucasus, Berber tribes in North Africa, and in the Himyarite Kingdom of the Arabian Peninsula.
> 
> According to Sand, the original Jews living in Israel, contrary to popular belief, were not exiled by the Romans following the Bar Kokhba revolt.[18] The Romans permitted most Jews to remain in the country. Rather, the story of the exile was a myth promoted by early Christians to recruit Jews to the new faith. They portrayed that event as a divine punishment imposed on the Jews for having rejected the Christian gospel. Sand writes that "Christians wanted later generations of Jews to believe that their ancestors had been exiled as a punishment from God."[19] Following the Arab conquest of Palestine in the 7th century, many local Jews converted to Islam and were assimilated among the Arab conquerors. Sand concludes that these converts are the ancestors of the contemporary Palestinians.[20]
> 
> The Invention of the Jewish People - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> Start your own thread on that.
> 
> You are OFF TOPIC  !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Topic is
> *Jewish History, most of which is invented*
Click to expand...

That is not fair, but there is Jewish history and there is the zionist narrative.


----------



## Sixties Fan

MJB12741 said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as "Jewish land."
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was almost entirely Muslim and Christian for the last 1000 years before the zionists came from another continent.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> NOT A NEWS SOURCE! That site is a blog and vomits out the zionist narrative that only the most blind will latch on to.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It appears that the wall you worship at is actually the wall of a Roman fort. Indee even admitted this. He claimed this is known and has been for some time.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is what the zionists do and every time the world votes it is a landslide against your fascist leaders.
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Right of return"!  You bring up an outstanding point.  Why is it that no Arab country will grant their Palestinians a "right of return"?
Click to expand...

Why won't Arabia, especially?  Land of the Arabs.......


----------



## Sixties Fan

abi said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sand began his work by looking for research studies about forcible exile of Jews from the area now bordered by modern Israel, and its surrounding regions. He was astonished that he could find no such literature, he says, given that the expulsion of Jews from the region is viewed as a constitutive event in Jewish history. The conclusion he came to from his subsequent investigation is that the expulsion simply did not happen, that no one exiled the Jewish people from the region, and that theJewish diaspora is essentially a modern invention. He accounts for the appearance of millions of Jews around the Mediterranean and elsewhere as something that came about primarily through the religious conversion of local people, saying that Judaism, contrary to popular opinion, was very much a "converting religion" in former times. He holds that mass conversions were first brought about by the Hasmoneans under the influence of Hellenism, and continued until Christianity rose to dominance in the fourth century CE.[18]
> 
> *Jewish origins[edit]*
> Sand argues that it is likely that the ancestry of most contemporary Jews stems mainly from outside the Land of Israel and that a "nation-race" of Jews with a common origin never existed, and that just as most Christians and Muslims are the progeny of converted people, not of the first Christians and Muslims, Jews are also descended from converts. According to Sand, Judaism was originally, like its two cousins, a proselytising religion, and mass conversions to Judaism occurred among the Khazars in the Caucasus, Berber tribes in North Africa, and in the Himyarite Kingdom of the Arabian Peninsula.
> 
> According to Sand, the original Jews living in Israel, contrary to popular belief, were not exiled by the Romans following the Bar Kokhba revolt.[18] The Romans permitted most Jews to remain in the country. Rather, the story of the exile was a myth promoted by early Christians to recruit Jews to the new faith. They portrayed that event as a divine punishment imposed on the Jews for having rejected the Christian gospel. Sand writes that "Christians wanted later generations of Jews to believe that their ancestors had been exiled as a punishment from God."[19] Following the Arab conquest of Palestine in the 7th century, many local Jews converted to Islam and were assimilated among the Arab conquerors. Sand concludes that these converts are the ancestors of the contemporary Palestinians.[20]
> 
> The Invention of the Jewish People - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> Start your own thread on that.
> 
> You are OFF TOPIC  !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Topic is
> *Jewish History, most of which is invented*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not fair, but there is Jewish history and there is the zionist narrative.
Click to expand...

When either of you can prove that Jewish history is invented you can come and play.

And both forget that there is the Nazi and Jihadist narrative of Jewish history....
and only since 1967 CE.

Why did it take so long for these narratives from the Jihadists and Nazis to enter the discussion?  That is, if any of it can be considered a discussion and not part of the Christian and Muslim brand of "We must continue to dominate the Jews".

Am Israel chai


----------



## abi

Sixties Fan said:


> When either of you can prove that Jewish history is invented you can come and play.


I have shown already that overwhelming evidence shows that the western wall is really from a Roman fort. Indee admitted that this has been known for some time.


----------



## Sixties Fan

abi said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> When either of you can prove that Jewish history is invented you can come and play.
> 
> 
> 
> I have shown already that overwhelming evidence shows that the western wall is really from a Roman fort. Indee admitted that this has been known for some time.
Click to expand...

You have shown nothing but lies, upon lies, Herr Goebbles.

An old dog with too many fleas, to the point you cannot think straight.
All you want is to get rid of the fleas at any cost.
Sorry but, more and more fleas are going to feel welcome on you .


----------



## abi

Sixties Fan said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> When either of you can prove that Jewish history is invented you can come and play.
> 
> 
> 
> I have shown already that overwhelming evidence shows that the western wall is really from a Roman fort. Indee admitted that this has been known for some time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have shown nothing but lies, upon lies, Herr Goebbles.
> 
> An old dog with too many fleas, to the point you cannot think straight.
> All you want is to get rid of the fleas at any cost.
> Sorry but, more and more fleas are going to feel welcome on you .
Click to expand...




Indeependent said:


> The Western Wall is not the Temple Wall and we've known this since time immemorial you dunce.



Archaeology and the zionist narrative


----------



## Sixties Fan

abi said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> When either of you can prove that Jewish history is invented you can come and play.
> 
> 
> 
> I have shown already that overwhelming evidence shows that the western wall is really from a Roman fort. Indee admitted that this has been known for some time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have shown nothing but lies, upon lies, Herr Goebbles.
> 
> An old dog with too many fleas, to the point you cannot think straight.
> All you want is to get rid of the fleas at any cost.
> Sorry but, more and more fleas are going to feel welcome on you .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Western Wall is not the Temple Wall and we've known this since time immemorial you dunce.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Archaeology and the zionist narrative
Click to expand...

I am not interested in anything Herr Goebbles has to show which calls Jewish heritage a "Zionist narrative".

Am Israel Chai !!


----------



## teddyearp

Abi, caught in yet another lie. You claim that indee admitted that the western wall is actually from a roman fort, then when you show what he actually said, it is not what he said at all!

The western wall is not part of the old temple and never was considered as such. It is a retaining wall built by Herod for the temple mount.


----------



## abi

teddyearp said:


> Abi, caught in yet another lie. You claim that indee admitted that the western wall is actually from a roman fort, then when you show what he actually said, it is not what he said at all!
> 
> The western wall is not part of the old temple and never was considered as such. It is a retaining wall built by Herod for the temple mount.


I didn't see him say that, but okay. Still no temple on the mount.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

abi said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> When either of you can prove that Jewish history is invented you can come and play.
> 
> 
> 
> I have shown already that overwhelming evidence shows that the western wall is really from a Roman fort. Indee admitted that this has been known for some time.
Click to expand...



"Indee even admitted it."  So what?  Just because Indeependent is on our side, does not make him an expert on Jewish artifacts.  What are his credentials?  I wouldn't use an admission of Indee's as evidence.


----------



## teddyearp

ForeverYoung436 said:


> "Indee even admitted it."  So what?  Just because Indeependent is on our side, does not make him an expert on Jewish artifacts.  What are his credentials?  I wouldn't use an admission of Indee's as evidence.


Read what abi quoted of indee. Total lie.


----------



## abi

ForeverYoung436 said:


> What are his credentials?


LOL, I was wondering the same thing.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

MJB12741 said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as "Jewish land."
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was almost entirely Muslim and Christian for the last 1000 years before the zionists came from another continent.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> NOT A NEWS SOURCE! That site is a blog and vomits out the zionist narrative that only the most blind will latch on to.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It appears that the wall you worship at is actually the wall of a Roman fort. Indee even admitted this. He claimed this is known and has been for some time.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is what the zionists do and every time the world votes it is a landslide against your fascist leaders.
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Right of return"!  You bring up an outstanding point.  Why is it that no Arab country will grant their Palestinians a "right of return"?
Click to expand...


What about the Jewish people who were forced to flee any Arab Countries they were living in ?


----------



## Sixties Fan

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as "Jewish land."
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was almost entirely Muslim and Christian for the last 1000 years before the zionists came from another continent.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> NOT A NEWS SOURCE! That site is a blog and vomits out the zionist narrative that only the most blind will latch on to.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It appears that the wall you worship at is actually the wall of a Roman fort. Indee even admitted this. He claimed this is known and has been for some time.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is what the zionists do and every time the world votes it is a landslide against your fascist leaders.
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Right of return"!  You bring up an outstanding point.  Why is it that no Arab country will grant their Palestinians a "right of return"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What about the Jewish people who were forced to flee any Arab Countries they were living in ?
Click to expand...

That would be for another thread, I think.
As far as Jewish heritage, one could ask what is being done to preserve Jewish history in all of those countries.

Should Jewish heritage be given to Iraq or returned to Iraqi/Babylonian Jews?


----------



## abi

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> What about the Jewish people who were forced to flee any Arab Countries they were living in ?


Another horror foisted upon the Jewish people by the zionists.


----------



## Sixties Fan

abi said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about the Jewish people who were forced to flee any Arab Countries they were living in ?
> 
> 
> 
> Another horror foisted upon the Jewish people by the zionists.
Click to expand...

No, Herr Goebbles, just another horror foisted on the Jewish People by the Muslims since the 7th Century, because the Muslims see themselves as the Masters of the Jews and all other non Muslims.


----------



## abi

Sixties Fan said:


> No, Herr Goebbles, just another horror foisted on the Jewish People by the Muslims since the 7th Century, because the Muslims see themselves as the Masters of the Jews and all other non Muslims.


No. And I chose a Jewish source on purpose here:
Before Zionism: The shared life of Jews and Palestinians


----------



## Sixties Fan

abi said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, Herr Goebbles, just another horror foisted on the Jewish People by the Muslims since the 7th Century, because the Muslims see themselves as the Masters of the Jews and all other non Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> No. And I chose a Jewish source on purpose here:
> Before Zionism: The shared life of Jews and Palestinians
Click to expand...

Oh, yes Herr Goebbles.  

+972 =  A Very Jewish Source.

Herr Goebbles....you are a laugh (poisonous one) per second.


----------



## abi

Sixties Fan said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, Herr Goebbles, just another horror foisted on the Jewish People by the Muslims since the 7th Century, because the Muslims see themselves as the Masters of the Jews and all other non Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> No. And I chose a Jewish source on purpose here:
> Before Zionism: The shared life of Jews and Palestinians
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, yes Herr Goebbles.
> 
> +972 =  A Very Jewish Source.
> 
> Herr Goebbles....you are a laugh (poisonous one) per second.
Click to expand...

Menachem Klein... do you bother reading anything not from camera, memri or elders of zion?


----------



## Sixties Fan

abi said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, Herr Goebbles, just another horror foisted on the Jewish People by the Muslims since the 7th Century, because the Muslims see themselves as the Masters of the Jews and all other non Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> No. And I chose a Jewish source on purpose here:
> Before Zionism: The shared life of Jews and Palestinians
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, yes Herr Goebbles.
> 
> +972 =  A Very Jewish Source.
> 
> Herr Goebbles....you are a laugh (poisonous one) per second.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Menachem Klein... do you bother reading anything not from camera, memri or elders of zion?
Click to expand...

It is not that.  
First of all Klein is a leftist.  So, like many Americans, Brits, etc, he does not care about his country, if he is Israeli.

Second of all, if it appears on + 972......its value about the truth is - 972.

This is what the useful idiot Klein has written:

"Klein is one of the leading Bash-Israel academics who has a special passion for the idea of dividing Jerusalem and removing Israel from its sacred shrines. The 64 year old was the academic fig leaf for the anti-Israel “Geneva Initiative” of Yossi Beilin and the Far Left. When he was denied an academic promotion a while back, he publicly denounced Bar Ilan University as a thuggish institution."

The ‘Arab Jew’ Invention of Bar-Ilan University’s Menachem Klein | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Steven Plaut | 14 Sivan 5776 – June 20, 2016 | JewishPress.com

No wonder Herr Goebbles is so in love with the Kleins of the world


----------



## abi

Sixties Fan said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, Herr Goebbles, just another horror foisted on the Jewish People by the Muslims since the 7th Century, because the Muslims see themselves as the Masters of the Jews and all other non Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> No. And I chose a Jewish source on purpose here:
> Before Zionism: The shared life of Jews and Palestinians
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, yes Herr Goebbles.
> 
> +972 =  A Very Jewish Source.
> 
> Herr Goebbles....you are a laugh (poisonous one) per second.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Menachem Klein... do you bother reading anything not from camera, memri or elders of zion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not that.
> First of all Klein is a leftist.  So, like many Americans, Brits, etc, he does not care about his country, if he is Israeli.
> 
> Second of all, if it appears on + 972......its value about the truth is - 972.
> 
> This is what the useful idiot Klein has written:
> 
> "Klein is one of the leading Bash-Israel academics who has a special passion for the idea of dividing Jerusalem and removing Israel from its sacred shrines. The 64 year old was the academic fig leaf for the anti-Israel “Geneva Initiative” of Yossi Beilin and the Far Left. When he was denied an academic promotion a while back, he publicly denounced Bar Ilan University as a thuggish institution."
> 
> The ‘Arab Jew’ Invention of Bar-Ilan University’s Menachem Klein | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Steven Plaut | 14 Sivan 5776 – June 20, 2016 | JewishPress.com
> 
> No wonder Herr Goebbles is so in love with the Kleins of the world
Click to expand...

Funny, you found another source to copy and paste from.


----------



## Sixties Fan

abi said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, Herr Goebbles, just another horror foisted on the Jewish People by the Muslims since the 7th Century, because the Muslims see themselves as the Masters of the Jews and all other non Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> No. And I chose a Jewish source on purpose here:
> Before Zionism: The shared life of Jews and Palestinians
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, yes Herr Goebbles.
> 
> +972 =  A Very Jewish Source.
> 
> Herr Goebbles....you are a laugh (poisonous one) per second.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Menachem Klein... do you bother reading anything not from camera, memri or elders of zion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not that.
> First of all Klein is a leftist.  So, like many Americans, Brits, etc, he does not care about his country, if he is Israeli.
> 
> Second of all, if it appears on + 972......its value about the truth is - 972.
> 
> This is what the useful idiot Klein has written:
> 
> "Klein is one of the leading Bash-Israel academics who has a special passion for the idea of dividing Jerusalem and removing Israel from its sacred shrines. The 64 year old was the academic fig leaf for the anti-Israel “Geneva Initiative” of Yossi Beilin and the Far Left. When he was denied an academic promotion a while back, he publicly denounced Bar Ilan University as a thuggish institution."
> 
> The ‘Arab Jew’ Invention of Bar-Ilan University’s Menachem Klein | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Steven Plaut | 14 Sivan 5776 – June 20, 2016 | JewishPress.com
> 
> No wonder Herr Goebbles is so in love with the Kleins of the world
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny, you found another source to copy and paste from.
Click to expand...

You just hate that those useful idiots are unmasked, just like you.


----------



## Sixties Fan

In 2000, Palestinian mobs once again attacked, killed one Israeli soldier and destroyed the building. Palestinian forces again took part. The Shalom Al Yisrael synagogue in Jericho, with its unique Byzantine-era mosaic floor, was also torched. Today, Israelis have only sporadic access to the site. As for Gush Katif, the wild Palestinian mob destruction of all the synagogues there is just too fresh and painful a wound to talk about.

The Palestinians learned from the Jordanians. Before 1967 Jews were not allowed to reach their holy places in Jerusalem at all; thousands of Jewish graves on the Mount of Olives were desecrated and the tombstones used to pave streets and latrines; and the synagogues of Jerusalem’s Jewish Quarter were dynamited.

The greatest crime of all – an antiquities crime of historic proportions – has been committed over recent years by the Palestinian Wakf on the Temple Mount. In 1999, the Wakf dug out hundreds of truckloads of dirt from caverns known as Solomon’s Stables beneath the upper plaza (more than 1,600 square meters in area and 15 meters deep) without any archeological supervision or documentation.

(full article online)

Who’s destroying antiquities in Jerusalem?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Zweig-Devira noted that the seemingly worthless pile of dirt may have significant archaeological findings. Similar piles in the past have included, among other things, signatures of Cohanim (priests) mentioned in the Book of Jeremiah, remains of the Holy Temple plaza, and additional findings from various time periods.

He noted that he and other archaeologists locate dozens of ancient artifacts every day in the pile in question.

According to Zweig-Devira, the Waqf is also failing to protect beams from the period of the First Temple, leaving them exposed to the rains and not placing plastic on them to protect them from bad weather.

He noted that Waqf officials moved the aforementioned pile of artifacts on Sunday when there were no visitors to the Temple Mount, and there was no monitoring by IAA officials.

(full article online)

Report: Waqf Continues to Destroy Jewish Antiquities


----------



## Sixties Fan

Meanwhile, Jewish synagogues and holy sites in Jericho, Nablus and Gush Katif have been torched to the ground while Palestinian police looked on.

In 1996, Palestinian mobs assaulted Rachel’s Tomb in Bethlehem, and Palestinian policemen on the scene shot and wounded the Israeli soldiers guarding the Tomb. Ever since, the site has been sheathed in high concrete barriers, turning it into a Fort Knox-like encampment. Then a Palestinian mob led by Palestinian policemen assaulted Joseph’s Tomb in Nablus, torched the synagogue inside, and opened fire on Israeli troops at the site, killing 6 Israeli soldiers.

In 2000, Palestinian mobs once again attacked, killed one Israeli soldier, and destroyed the building. Palestinian forces again took part. The Shalom Al Yisrael synagogue in Jericho with its unique Byzantine-era mosaic floor was also torched. Today, Israelis have only sporadic access to the site.

As for Gush Katif, the wild Palestinian mob destruction of all the synagogues there is just too fresh and painful a wound to talk about….

Under PA rule, Tulul Abu el Alayiq, near Wadi Qelt and Jericho, has been left to decay. This is an important archaeological site where Hasmonian kings and Herod built their winter palaces, and it contains what may be the remains of the earliest synagogue in Israel. The nearby Naaran synagogue is threatened by Palestinian real estate developers who are building practically atop the site. Israeli archaeologists who have managed to visit there say that the PA has let the place rot.

(full article online)

Palestinian destruction of Jewish antiquities


----------



## Sixties Fan

A thousand years ago, the Iberian peninsula was a cultural oasis – until a million of its Arabic manuscripts were destroyed. Benjamin Ramm explains how its poetry lives on.

(full article online)

The 1,000-year-old lost Arab poetry that lives on in Hebrew


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?



So your basic argument is "It's all Jewish because I say it's Jewish".

Fine, then if Israel is Jewish, the the US is Native America and the whites and blacks and Asians can get the fuck out of there and move back to wherever it is they're from. Then where's Israel? It's fucked.


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So your basic argument is "It's all Jewish because I say it's Jewish".
> 
> Fine, then if Israel is Jewish, the the US is Native America and the whites and blacks and Asians can get the fuck out of there and move back to wherever it is they're from. Then where's Israel? It's fucked.
Click to expand...

I do thank you for your involvement in this thread.

Thank you for saying absolutely nothing of value.

What is NOT Jewish Heritage?  Evidence.

What is "Palestinian" Heritage?  Evidence.

What Arab/Muslim/Palestinian Heritage has Israel been destroying in Israel, Judea and Samaria?

If you choose to return with an answer, I do hope this time it will be with SOMETHING, rather than the NOTHING you chose in your last post.

Am Israel Chai.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So your basic argument is "It's all Jewish because I say it's Jewish".
> 
> Fine, then if Israel is Jewish, the the US is Native America and the whites and blacks and Asians can get the fuck out of there and move back to wherever it is they're from. Then where's Israel? It's fucked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do thank you for your involvement in this thread.
> 
> Thank you for saying absolutely nothing of value.
> 
> What is NOT Jewish Heritage?  Evidence.
> 
> What is "Palestinian" Heritage?  Evidence.
> 
> What Arab/Muslim/Palestinian Heritage has Israel been destroying in Israel, Judea and Samaria?
> 
> If you choose to return with an answer, I do hope this time it will be with SOMETHING, rather than the NOTHING you chose in your last post.
> 
> Am Israel Chai.
Click to expand...


Nothing of value huh? Value being that I should just support your case or some bullshit like that?

Yes, the Muslims have been trying to destroy the Jews, and the Jews have been trying to destroy the Muslims. It takes two to Tango.

If Israel is only Jewish, then the US is only Native American, and the UK is only Celtic. 

You've decided to make barriers in time where anything that happens after a certain date stops being valid. Muslims who made up the majority of Palestine from the 12th Century AD are all of a sudden not a part of the history of the region. Er... what? That's been 800 years of majority status and you're acting like it never happened.

And why? Why is this your view? Because you have an agenda. 

Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia

Jews haven't been a majority there since the 5th Century AD. Oh, wow.


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So your basic argument is "It's all Jewish because I say it's Jewish".
> 
> Fine, then if Israel is Jewish, the the US is Native America and the whites and blacks and Asians can get the fuck out of there and move back to wherever it is they're from. Then where's Israel? It's fucked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do thank you for your involvement in this thread.
> 
> Thank you for saying absolutely nothing of value.
> 
> What is NOT Jewish Heritage?  Evidence.
> 
> What is "Palestinian" Heritage?  Evidence.
> 
> What Arab/Muslim/Palestinian Heritage has Israel been destroying in Israel, Judea and Samaria?
> 
> If you choose to return with an answer, I do hope this time it will be with SOMETHING, rather than the NOTHING you chose in your last post.
> 
> Am Israel Chai.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing of value huh? Value being that I should just support your case or some bullshit like that?
> 
> Yes, the Muslims have been trying to destroy the Jews, and the Jews have been trying to destroy the Muslims. It takes two to Tango.
> 
> If Israel is only Jewish, then the US is only Native American, and the UK is only Celtic.
> 
> You've decided to make barriers in time where anything that happens after a certain date stops being valid. Muslims who made up the majority of Palestine from the 12th Century AD are all of a sudden not a part of the history of the region. Er... what? That's been 800 years of majority status and you're acting like it never happened.
> 
> And why? Why is this your view? Because you have an agenda.
> 
> Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia
> 
> Jews haven't been a majority there since the 5th Century AD. Oh, wow.
Click to expand...

Your nonsense about Jews trying to destroy Muslims is taken.

You are way off topic with the rest of your rant.

Nothing real to contribute to this thread?

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The enemies of the Jewish people, throughout the Middle East and Europe, therefore fabricated the propagandistic illusion that the Jews are interlopers on historically Jewish land while the Arab colonists are the persecuted indigenous population.
Heritage theft is part of this process.

Although transforming the historical figure of Jesus into a Palestinian-Arab is probably the most ridiculous and audacious of such examples, it is certainly not the only one.





After all, if the Arabs can abscond with Jesus they can certainly take Anne Frank which is why we sometimes see her in a _keffiyeh_ within circles associated with antisemitic anti-Zionism.

Another obvious example, as Behan points out, is the obscuring of Jewish history on Jewish land through the widely accepted usage of "West Bank" for Judea and Samaria. The truth is that the tiny bit of land along the eastern Mediterranean was known as Judah and Samaria for millennia.

(full article online)

Heritage Theft: A Response to Dani Ishai Behan  (Michael Lumish) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## teddyearp

abi had a thread that attempts to disprove much of the archeological evidence; it got moved to the religion section.

Either way you slice it or dice it, the arch of Titus in Rome, Italy speaks volumes.


----------



## abi

teddyearp said:


> abi had a thread that attempts to disprove much of the archeological evidence; it got moved to the religion section.


It was a factual documentary from the BBC.

Carry on.


----------



## teddyearp

Oh abi, you're so cool. The way you do not include the whole post in your quote(s) and subsequent replies speaks volumes about you.

Just like the rest, cherry pick and cut and paste.

Comical.



No really.


----------



## abi

I am sorry that facts anger you, but that is not our problem, snowflake.


----------



## teddyearp

abi said:


> I am sorry that facts anger you, but that is not our problem, snowflake.


Ah yes. Now the real truth comes out. "Our problem". Many on Team P (though not so much lately, but abi has used it) call everyone on 'Team I', hasbara.

It is obvious that there is another unnamed propaganda 'army'. I have called it the electronic intifada brigade. Not directly associated with the webpage, but seriously more decadent, evil, and full of as many lies and/or mostly cherry picked half truths.

How much are they paying you abi? You seem to post here almost 24/7.


----------



## teddyearp

Oh yeah, I noticed you failed again to address the fact of the arch of Titus.

How convenient for you.

Bitch.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So your basic argument is "It's all Jewish because I say it's Jewish".
> 
> Fine, then if Israel is Jewish, the the US is Native America and the whites and blacks and Asians can get the fuck out of there and move back to wherever it is they're from. Then where's Israel? It's fucked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do thank you for your involvement in this thread.
> 
> Thank you for saying absolutely nothing of value.
> 
> What is NOT Jewish Heritage?  Evidence.
> 
> What is "Palestinian" Heritage?  Evidence.
> 
> What Arab/Muslim/Palestinian Heritage has Israel been destroying in Israel, Judea and Samaria?
> 
> If you choose to return with an answer, I do hope this time it will be with SOMETHING, rather than the NOTHING you chose in your last post.
> 
> Am Israel Chai.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing of value huh? Value being that I should just support your case or some bullshit like that?
> 
> Yes, the Muslims have been trying to destroy the Jews, and the Jews have been trying to destroy the Muslims. It takes two to Tango.
> 
> If Israel is only Jewish, then the US is only Native American, and the UK is only Celtic.
> 
> You've decided to make barriers in time where anything that happens after a certain date stops being valid. Muslims who made up the majority of Palestine from the 12th Century AD are all of a sudden not a part of the history of the region. Er... what? That's been 800 years of majority status and you're acting like it never happened.
> 
> And why? Why is this your view? Because you have an agenda.
> 
> Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia
> 
> Jews haven't been a majority there since the 5th Century AD. Oh, wow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your nonsense about Jews trying to destroy Muslims is taken.
> 
> You are way off topic with the rest of your rant.
> 
> Nothing real to contribute to this thread?
> 
> Thanks for sharing.
Click to expand...


Nonsense? How on Earth is this nonsense?

Israel wants Israel to be a Jewish state, does it not? Israel wants Israel to be larger than it is right now, does it not? 
Israel cannot achieve its goals without have perpetual war with Muslims. The right wing in Israel is doing quite well recently with tactics of provoking Hamas and others, so that it has an excuse to fight to back. 

Way off topic huh? If I was off topic, then your OP was way off topic too, I merely replied to what you wrote.

but, it seems that anyone who attacks your position is going to get a "Nothing real to contribute to this thread?"

Oh, wow, another person on this forum who's more interested in playing games than in actually discussing things. No doubt you think you understand my position perfectly and will soon be attacking things I've never spoken about with you.....


----------



## ForeverYoung436

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So your basic argument is "It's all Jewish because I say it's Jewish".
> 
> Fine, then if Israel is Jewish, the the US is Native America and the whites and blacks and Asians can get the fuck out of there and move back to wherever it is they're from. Then where's Israel? It's fucked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do thank you for your involvement in this thread.
> 
> Thank you for saying absolutely nothing of value.
> 
> What is NOT Jewish Heritage?  Evidence.
> 
> What is "Palestinian" Heritage?  Evidence.
> 
> What Arab/Muslim/Palestinian Heritage has Israel been destroying in Israel, Judea and Samaria?
> 
> If you choose to return with an answer, I do hope this time it will be with SOMETHING, rather than the NOTHING you chose in your last post.
> 
> Am Israel Chai.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing of value huh? Value being that I should just support your case or some bullshit like that?
> 
> Yes, the Muslims have been trying to destroy the Jews, and the Jews have been trying to destroy the Muslims. It takes two to Tango.
> 
> If Israel is only Jewish, then the US is only Native American, and the UK is only Celtic.
> 
> You've decided to make barriers in time where anything that happens after a certain date stops being valid. Muslims who made up the majority of Palestine from the 12th Century AD are all of a sudden not a part of the history of the region. Er... what? That's been 800 years of majority status and you're acting like it never happened.
> 
> And why? Why is this your view? Because you have an agenda.
> 
> Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia
> 
> Jews haven't been a majority there since the 5th Century AD. Oh, wow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your nonsense about Jews trying to destroy Muslims is taken.
> 
> You are way off topic with the rest of your rant.
> 
> Nothing real to contribute to this thread?
> 
> Thanks for sharing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense? How on Earth is this nonsense?
> 
> Israel wants Israel to be a Jewish state, does it not? Israel wants Israel to be larger than it is right now, does it not?
> Israel cannot achieve its goals without have perpetual war with Muslims. The right wing in Israel is doing quite well recently with tactics of provoking Hamas and others, so that it has an excuse to fight to back.
> 
> Way off topic huh? If I was off topic, then your OP was way off topic too, I merely replied to what you wrote.
> 
> but, it seems that anyone who attacks your position is going to get a "Nothing real to contribute to this thread?"
> 
> Oh, wow, another person on this forum who's more interested in playing games than in actually discussing things. No doubt you think you understand my position perfectly and will soon be attacking things I've never spoken about with you.....
Click to expand...



This thread is about Palestinians destroying places and relics of Jewish value and history in Israel.  You have contributed nothing to that specific topic.  If you want to talk about Greater Israel (which, btw, is nothing more than a speck on the globe), then start another thread.


----------



## IsaacNewton

If you stand back you see what all these people are fighting over. 

Who gets to claim rocks and dirt. Pretty much what humans have fought over since we evolved 300,000 years ago. The only difference now is each group claims their 'god' gave them exclusive rights to own the rocks and dirt.


----------



## frigidweirdo

ForeverYoung436 said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> So your basic argument is "It's all Jewish because I say it's Jewish".
> 
> Fine, then if Israel is Jewish, the the US is Native America and the whites and blacks and Asians can get the fuck out of there and move back to wherever it is they're from. Then where's Israel? It's fucked.
> 
> 
> 
> I do thank you for your involvement in this thread.
> 
> Thank you for saying absolutely nothing of value.
> 
> What is NOT Jewish Heritage?  Evidence.
> 
> What is "Palestinian" Heritage?  Evidence.
> 
> What Arab/Muslim/Palestinian Heritage has Israel been destroying in Israel, Judea and Samaria?
> 
> If you choose to return with an answer, I do hope this time it will be with SOMETHING, rather than the NOTHING you chose in your last post.
> 
> Am Israel Chai.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing of value huh? Value being that I should just support your case or some bullshit like that?
> 
> Yes, the Muslims have been trying to destroy the Jews, and the Jews have been trying to destroy the Muslims. It takes two to Tango.
> 
> If Israel is only Jewish, then the US is only Native American, and the UK is only Celtic.
> 
> You've decided to make barriers in time where anything that happens after a certain date stops being valid. Muslims who made up the majority of Palestine from the 12th Century AD are all of a sudden not a part of the history of the region. Er... what? That's been 800 years of majority status and you're acting like it never happened.
> 
> And why? Why is this your view? Because you have an agenda.
> 
> Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia
> 
> Jews haven't been a majority there since the 5th Century AD. Oh, wow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your nonsense about Jews trying to destroy Muslims is taken.
> 
> You are way off topic with the rest of your rant.
> 
> Nothing real to contribute to this thread?
> 
> Thanks for sharing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense? How on Earth is this nonsense?
> 
> Israel wants Israel to be a Jewish state, does it not? Israel wants Israel to be larger than it is right now, does it not?
> Israel cannot achieve its goals without have perpetual war with Muslims. The right wing in Israel is doing quite well recently with tactics of provoking Hamas and others, so that it has an excuse to fight to back.
> 
> Way off topic huh? If I was off topic, then your OP was way off topic too, I merely replied to what you wrote.
> 
> but, it seems that anyone who attacks your position is going to get a "Nothing real to contribute to this thread?"
> 
> Oh, wow, another person on this forum who's more interested in playing games than in actually discussing things. No doubt you think you understand my position perfectly and will soon be attacking things I've never spoken about with you.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is about Palestinians destroying places and relics of Jewish value and history in Israel.  You have contributed nothing to that specific topic.  If you want to talk about Greater Israel (which, btw, is nothing more than a speck on the globe), then start another thread.
Click to expand...


So, that'd be why the OP wrote 

"But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?"

"

Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places."

Yeah, I see what the OP is doing. Saying something like "why is your wife such a slut?" and you say "I don't have a wife" and he says "stay on topic, this is about your wife being a slut, not about you not having a wife".


----------



## admonit

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So your basic argument is "It's all Jewish because I say it's Jewish".
> 
> Fine, then if Israel is Jewish, the the US is Native America and the whites and blacks and Asians can get the fuck out of there and move back to wherever it is they're from. Then where's Israel? It's fucked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do thank you for your involvement in this thread.
> 
> Thank you for saying absolutely nothing of value.
> 
> What is NOT Jewish Heritage?  Evidence.
> 
> What is "Palestinian" Heritage?  Evidence.
> 
> What Arab/Muslim/Palestinian Heritage has Israel been destroying in Israel, Judea and Samaria?
> 
> If you choose to return with an answer, I do hope this time it will be with SOMETHING, rather than the NOTHING you chose in your last post.
> 
> Am Israel Chai.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews haven't been a majority there since the 5th Century AD. Oh, wow.
Click to expand...

You equate national disputes with parliament disputes, majority in the former case is irrelevant.  And in no way this gives the right to  Arabs to destroy national Jewish heritage.


----------



## frigidweirdo

admonit said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So your basic argument is "It's all Jewish because I say it's Jewish".
> 
> Fine, then if Israel is Jewish, the the US is Native America and the whites and blacks and Asians can get the fuck out of there and move back to wherever it is they're from. Then where's Israel? It's fucked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do thank you for your involvement in this thread.
> 
> Thank you for saying absolutely nothing of value.
> 
> What is NOT Jewish Heritage?  Evidence.
> 
> What is "Palestinian" Heritage?  Evidence.
> 
> What Arab/Muslim/Palestinian Heritage has Israel been destroying in Israel, Judea and Samaria?
> 
> If you choose to return with an answer, I do hope this time it will be with SOMETHING, rather than the NOTHING you chose in your last post.
> 
> Am Israel Chai.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews haven't been a majority there since the 5th Century AD. Oh, wow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You equate national disputes with parliament disputes, majority in the former case is irrelevant.  And in no way this gives the right to  Arabs to destroy national Jewish heritage.
Click to expand...


No, it doesn't give anyone "the right" to do anything. Rights can't be given. 

The POWER to destroy lies with those who hold the power over anything. That's the unfortunate reality of the world we live in. You control it, you can do whatever you like with it. 

The whole situation is a power struggle between two peoples and they'll use culture and history to further their own political goals, and right now, neither is being pretty subtle about it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Not discussing Politics.  Not discussing power on this thread.

This thread is to discuss the destruction of Jewish Heritage/History.

How much of it has been done.  Since when?  Why only since a certain year.  Why only Jewish History?  Why are the Arabs destroying what they have been saying is really their heritage, so on and so forth.

No need to point out over and over again that it is a "Power struggle between two people".

I am asking WHY ??????? are the Arabs destroying what they allege is their history?


----------



## Roudy

Sixties Fan said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about the Jewish people who were forced to flee any Arab Countries they were living in ?
> 
> 
> 
> Another horror foisted upon the Jewish people by the zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, Herr Goebbles, just another horror foisted on the Jewish People by the Muslims since the 7th Century, because the Muslims see themselves as the Masters of the Jews and all other non Muslims.
Click to expand...

Before the establishment of the state of Israel and its success blew that theory up.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> Not discussing Politics.  Not discussing power on this thread.
> 
> This thread is to discuss the destruction of Jewish Heritage/History.
> 
> How much of it has been done.  Since when?  Why only since a certain year.  Why only Jewish History?  Why are the Arabs destroying what they have been saying is really their heritage, so on and so forth.
> 
> No need to point out over and over again that it is a "Power struggle between two people".
> 
> I am asking WHY ??????? are the Arabs destroying what they allege is their history?




The simple answer is:  Because Jewish history in Israel ISN'T their history.  They need to destroy Jewish history in Israel to hide it, so they can claim they've been there for 10,000 years.  Sort of like a criminal trying to destroy evidence.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Gratefully the Arabs do not have control over every archeological site so that findings like this one cannot be destroyed.  But they will sure would like to find a way of doing so, or claiming it as theirs ]

The Palestinian Arab Ma'an News Agency, which is touted as independent and objective, reports the story this way in Arabic:
 Continuing the attempts of the Israeli occupation to write an imaginary history of its control over the city of Jerusalem, it continues to talk about the artificial history of  the temple and what it calls "its ancient history" in the city.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's spokesman for the Arab media, Ophir Gendelman, published photographs of relics that the Israeli Antiquities Authority allegedly found in excavations near the Al-Buraq Wall. The occupation claims that they confirm their "ancient history" in the city, and that the seals and artifacts date back to the period of the "First Temple"  2,700 years ago and to one of the "rulers of Jerusalem" mentioned in the Torah.

(full article online)

Palestinians really get upset when archaeology shows Jews controlled Jerusalem (update) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> Not discussing Politics.  Not discussing power on this thread.
> 
> This thread is to discuss the destruction of Jewish Heritage/History.
> 
> How much of it has been done.  Since when?  Why only since a certain year.  Why only Jewish History?  Why are the Arabs destroying what they have been saying is really their heritage, so on and so forth.
> 
> No need to point out over and over again that it is a "Power struggle between two people".
> 
> I am asking WHY ??????? are the Arabs destroying what they allege is their history?



Yeah, you just keep up the bullshit....


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not discussing Politics.  Not discussing power on this thread.
> 
> This thread is to discuss the destruction of Jewish Heritage/History.
> 
> How much of it has been done.  Since when?  Why only since a certain year.  Why only Jewish History?  Why are the Arabs destroying what they have been saying is really their heritage, so on and so forth.
> 
> No need to point out over and over again that it is a "Power struggle between two people".
> 
> I am asking WHY ??????? are the Arabs destroying what they allege is their history?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, you just keep up the bullshit....
Click to expand...

In other words, an alleged indigenous people destroying their alleged indigenous history/heritage is of no concern of yours.

It is THEIR history, and they can do whatever they wish with them.

Now, where in the world does any other indigenous people think that way?


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not discussing Politics.  Not discussing power on this thread.
> 
> This thread is to discuss the destruction of Jewish Heritage/History.
> 
> How much of it has been done.  Since when?  Why only since a certain year.  Why only Jewish History?  Why are the Arabs destroying what they have been saying is really their heritage, so on and so forth.
> 
> No need to point out over and over again that it is a "Power struggle between two people".
> 
> I am asking WHY ??????? are the Arabs destroying what they allege is their history?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, you just keep up the bullshit....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In other words, an alleged indigenous people destroying their alleged indigenous history/heritage is of no concern of yours.
> 
> It is THEIR history, and they can do whatever they wish with them.
> 
> Now, where in the world does any other indigenous people think that way?
Click to expand...


I didn't say it wasn't of concern. 

It's their history, they can't do with it whatever they like. Though they seem to. 

I mean, the Israelis actually back Turkey in suppressing  the Armenian genocide because.... because they want to be the eternal victims of the Holocaust, and if other cultures have their own victimization then this hurts Israel in promoting their own. 

It's a power play, trying to force people to accept their way of thinking rather than someone else's.

You talk about "indigenous people", in the middle of the 1500s there were around 5,000 Jews in the Palestine area. In the middle of the 1600s there were around 2,000 Jews in the area. 

At the same time there were around 200,000 Muslims in the area. Just like Israel with the Armenian Genocide, you're using "indigenous" as a loaded word, that if you actually look at it properly, doesn't mean too much.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

abi said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that Jerusalem is off the table for negotiations, the Palestinians have a golden opportunity to now seek peace with Israel before they lose even more.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you simultaneously colonize your neighbors and still claim you want peace?
Click to expand...


Can you deny Israel has the Right to Exist and still want “ peace’?


----------



## Sixties Fan

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that Jerusalem is off the table for negotiations, the Palestinians have a golden opportunity to now seek peace with Israel before they lose even more.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you simultaneously colonize your neighbors and still claim you want peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you deny Israel has the Right to Exist and still want “ peace’?
Click to expand...

Let us not discuss that.
They always end up moving the conversation to the "Jews".

What right do the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians have of destroying Jewish History.  That is what I would love to find out.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that Jerusalem is off the table for negotiations, the Palestinians have a golden opportunity to now seek peace with Israel before they lose even more.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you simultaneously colonize your neighbors and still claim you want peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you deny Israel has the Right to Exist and still want “ peace’?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let us not discuss that.
> They always end up moving the conversation to the "Jews".
> 
> What right do the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians have of destroying Jewish History.  That is what I would love to find out.
Click to expand...


It's not about rights, it's about power.


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that Jerusalem is off the table for negotiations, the Palestinians have a golden opportunity to now seek peace with Israel before they lose even more.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you simultaneously colonize your neighbors and still claim you want peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you deny Israel has the Right to Exist and still want “ peace’?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let us not discuss that.
> They always end up moving the conversation to the "Jews".
> 
> What right do the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians have of destroying Jewish History.  That is what I would love to find out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not about rights, it's about power.
Click to expand...

You want to turn the conversation into that.

Start your own thread.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that Jerusalem is off the table for negotiations, the Palestinians have a golden opportunity to now seek peace with Israel before they lose even more.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you simultaneously colonize your neighbors and still claim you want peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you deny Israel has the Right to Exist and still want “ peace’?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let us not discuss that.
> They always end up moving the conversation to the "Jews".
> 
> What right do the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians have of destroying Jewish History.  That is what I would love to find out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not about rights, it's about power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You want to turn the conversation into that.
> 
> Start your own thread.
Click to expand...


Oh right, I'm sorry, yeah, everyone should agree with you because this thread is about how you are right, I forgot that, seeing as you're wrong. 

Maybe I will start a thread and anyone who disagrees with me, I'll report their posts so that the whole thread is about ME.


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you simultaneously colonize your neighbors and still claim you want peace?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you deny Israel has the Right to Exist and still want “ peace’?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let us not discuss that.
> They always end up moving the conversation to the "Jews".
> 
> What right do the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians have of destroying Jewish History.  That is what I would love to find out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not about rights, it's about power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You want to turn the conversation into that.
> 
> Start your own thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh right, I'm sorry, yeah, everyone should agree with you because this thread is about how you are right, I forgot that, seeing as you're wrong.
> 
> Maybe I will start a thread and anyone who disagrees with me, I'll report their posts so that the whole thread is about ME.
Click to expand...

"It's not about rights, it's about power."

The thread is called "The right to destroy Jewish History"

The Palestinians are using their power to destroy Jewish history, which should actually be their history, at least they keep saying they were around since about 10,000 years ago.

Now, where is it not about the asking What right do the Palestinians have to destroy Jewish History, and is it about power, which you are clearly trying to put on the Jewish side, because according to you Israel has the power.

Your theory falls apart because Israel has not had any "power" to stop the destruction of its own history by the hands of the very people who say they are the indigenous people of the land, and therefore all of that which they are destroying should have been Palestinian history and heritage.

Would you like to use the world power again for anything else when it comes to the Jewish people and Israel, or can you discuss what exactly is the Arab Palestinian Right.....to destroy Jewish history?


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you deny Israel has the Right to Exist and still want “ peace’?
> 
> 
> 
> Let us not discuss that.
> They always end up moving the conversation to the "Jews".
> 
> What right do the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians have of destroying Jewish History.  That is what I would love to find out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not about rights, it's about power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You want to turn the conversation into that.
> 
> Start your own thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh right, I'm sorry, yeah, everyone should agree with you because this thread is about how you are right, I forgot that, seeing as you're wrong.
> 
> Maybe I will start a thread and anyone who disagrees with me, I'll report their posts so that the whole thread is about ME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "It's not about rights, it's about power."
> 
> The thread is called "The right to destroy Jewish History"
> 
> The Palestinians are using their power to destroy Jewish history, which should actually be their history, at least they keep saying they were around since about 10,000 years ago.
> 
> Now, where is it not about the asking What right do the Palestinians have to destroy Jewish History, and is it about power, which you are clearly trying to put on the Jewish side, because according to you Israel has the power.
> 
> Your theory falls apart because Israel has not had any "power" to stop the destruction of its own history by the hands of the very people who say they are the indigenous people of the land, and therefore all of that which they are destroying should have been Palestinian history and heritage.
> 
> Would you like to use the world power again for anything else when it comes to the Jewish people and Israel, or can you discuss what exactly is the Arab Palestinian Right.....to destroy Jewish history?
Click to expand...


Ah, so, if I start a thread called "the Moon is made out of cheese", you're not allowed to say that the Moon isn't made out of cheese?

Your thread says "the right to destroy Jewish History" and I think your title is rubbish. Rights exist, they protect people from government abuse of power. So, if I had a right to destroy Jewish History, I'd have protection from govt intrusion into my destruction.

However this isn't what you're talking about. 

Govts don't have rights. 

However potentially you're talking about whether it's morally correct for Muslims to be trying to destroy Jewish History. Well, my personal view on that would be that Israel does the same thing, so, you reap what you sow. 

However at the end of the day it's all about power. If the Palestinians can destroy Jewish History, they'll try and do it. If the Israelis try and stop them, then this is their power. It's competing power. 

Really you can't destroy History, you can only destroy the narrative. Often the narrative is what one side decides is the narrative.

Back to the Armenian Genocide. Did it happen? Well, according to the Turks and the Israelis, no, it did not happen. According to the Armenians, yes, it did happen. Both of these are "History", both of them are different Narratives.

Now, are the Palestinians trying to destroy the true History of Israel and the Jews or are they trying to destroy the narrative that the Israelis and Jews claim is their History?

Two very different things. 

No, my argument doesn't fall apart. Israel has a lot of power, it has billions of US dollars, the backing of the US and weapons that make it formidable opponent in battle. It also has the UN which it is currently using, with US backing, to try and force the UN to go by Israeli narratives rather than Muslim. 

Your argument is basically "boohoo, the Jews are the victims from the aggression of the Muslims", I disagree with that argument. Israel is fighting just as much as the Palestinians are for the power they want to hold. 

I will continue to use the word power, because, unfortunately in this world, power is what counts and what is right or not gets left behind. Reality as opposed to you trying to deal in some sort of fantasy because the fantasy pushes towards your own agenda.

Now, would you like people to be able to talk freely on this issue, or would you like this thread to be about how you are right?


----------



## fncceo

frigidweirdo said:


> I think your title is rubbish



Of course you would... and we know why.


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let us not discuss that.
> They always end up moving the conversation to the "Jews".
> 
> What right do the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians have of destroying Jewish History.  That is what I would love to find out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not about rights, it's about power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You want to turn the conversation into that.
> 
> Start your own thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh right, I'm sorry, yeah, everyone should agree with you because this thread is about how you are right, I forgot that, seeing as you're wrong.
> 
> Maybe I will start a thread and anyone who disagrees with me, I'll report their posts so that the whole thread is about ME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "It's not about rights, it's about power."
> 
> The thread is called "The right to destroy Jewish History"
> 
> The Palestinians are using their power to destroy Jewish history, which should actually be their history, at least they keep saying they were around since about 10,000 years ago.
> 
> Now, where is it not about the asking What right do the Palestinians have to destroy Jewish History, and is it about power, which you are clearly trying to put on the Jewish side, because according to you Israel has the power.
> 
> Your theory falls apart because Israel has not had any "power" to stop the destruction of its own history by the hands of the very people who say they are the indigenous people of the land, and therefore all of that which they are destroying should have been Palestinian history and heritage.
> 
> Would you like to use the world power again for anything else when it comes to the Jewish people and Israel, or can you discuss what exactly is the Arab Palestinian Right.....to destroy Jewish history?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, so, if I start a thread called "the Moon is made out of cheese", you're not allowed to say that the Moon isn't made out of cheese?
> 
> Your thread says "the right to destroy Jewish History" and I think your title is rubbish. Rights exist, they protect people from government abuse of power. So, if I had a right to destroy Jewish History, I'd have protection from govt intrusion into my destruction.
> 
> However this isn't what you're talking about.
> 
> Govts don't have rights.
> 
> However potentially you're talking about whether it's morally correct for Muslims to be trying to destroy Jewish History. Well, my personal view on that would be that Israel does the same thing, so, you reap what you sow.
> 
> However at the end of the day it's all about power. If the Palestinians can destroy Jewish History, they'll try and do it. If the Israelis try and stop them, then this is their power. It's competing power.
> 
> Really you can't destroy History, you can only destroy the narrative. Often the narrative is what one side decides is the narrative.
> 
> Back to the Armenian Genocide. Did it happen? Well, according to the Turks and the Israelis, no, it did not happen. According to the Armenians, yes, it did happen. Both of these are "History", both of them are different Narratives.
> 
> Now, are the Palestinians trying to destroy the true History of Israel and the Jews or are they trying to destroy the narrative that the Israelis and Jews claim is their History?
> 
> Two very different things.
> 
> No, my argument doesn't fall apart. Israel has a lot of power, it has billions of US dollars, the backing of the US and weapons that make it formidable opponent in battle. It also has the UN which it is currently using, with US backing, to try and force the UN to go by Israeli narratives rather than Muslim.
> 
> Your argument is basically "boohoo, the Jews are the victims from the aggression of the Muslims", I disagree with that argument. Israel is fighting just as much as the Palestinians are for the power they want to hold.
> 
> I will continue to use the word power, because, unfortunately in this world, power is what counts and what is right or not gets left behind. Reality as opposed to you trying to deal in some sort of fantasy because the fantasy pushes towards your own agenda.
> 
> Now, would you like people to be able to talk freely on this issue, or would you like this thread to be about how you are right?
Click to expand...

I will have this thread to be about how I am right.

I will have this thread stay on course rather than have you derail it into the same old same old.

Now.....start your own thread


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not about rights, it's about power.
> 
> 
> 
> You want to turn the conversation into that.
> 
> Start your own thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh right, I'm sorry, yeah, everyone should agree with you because this thread is about how you are right, I forgot that, seeing as you're wrong.
> 
> Maybe I will start a thread and anyone who disagrees with me, I'll report their posts so that the whole thread is about ME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "It's not about rights, it's about power."
> 
> The thread is called "The right to destroy Jewish History"
> 
> The Palestinians are using their power to destroy Jewish history, which should actually be their history, at least they keep saying they were around since about 10,000 years ago.
> 
> Now, where is it not about the asking What right do the Palestinians have to destroy Jewish History, and is it about power, which you are clearly trying to put on the Jewish side, because according to you Israel has the power.
> 
> Your theory falls apart because Israel has not had any "power" to stop the destruction of its own history by the hands of the very people who say they are the indigenous people of the land, and therefore all of that which they are destroying should have been Palestinian history and heritage.
> 
> Would you like to use the world power again for anything else when it comes to the Jewish people and Israel, or can you discuss what exactly is the Arab Palestinian Right.....to destroy Jewish history?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, so, if I start a thread called "the Moon is made out of cheese", you're not allowed to say that the Moon isn't made out of cheese?
> 
> Your thread says "the right to destroy Jewish History" and I think your title is rubbish. Rights exist, they protect people from government abuse of power. So, if I had a right to destroy Jewish History, I'd have protection from govt intrusion into my destruction.
> 
> However this isn't what you're talking about.
> 
> Govts don't have rights.
> 
> However potentially you're talking about whether it's morally correct for Muslims to be trying to destroy Jewish History. Well, my personal view on that would be that Israel does the same thing, so, you reap what you sow.
> 
> However at the end of the day it's all about power. If the Palestinians can destroy Jewish History, they'll try and do it. If the Israelis try and stop them, then this is their power. It's competing power.
> 
> Really you can't destroy History, you can only destroy the narrative. Often the narrative is what one side decides is the narrative.
> 
> Back to the Armenian Genocide. Did it happen? Well, according to the Turks and the Israelis, no, it did not happen. According to the Armenians, yes, it did happen. Both of these are "History", both of them are different Narratives.
> 
> Now, are the Palestinians trying to destroy the true History of Israel and the Jews or are they trying to destroy the narrative that the Israelis and Jews claim is their History?
> 
> Two very different things.
> 
> No, my argument doesn't fall apart. Israel has a lot of power, it has billions of US dollars, the backing of the US and weapons that make it formidable opponent in battle. It also has the UN which it is currently using, with US backing, to try and force the UN to go by Israeli narratives rather than Muslim.
> 
> Your argument is basically "boohoo, the Jews are the victims from the aggression of the Muslims", I disagree with that argument. Israel is fighting just as much as the Palestinians are for the power they want to hold.
> 
> I will continue to use the word power, because, unfortunately in this world, power is what counts and what is right or not gets left behind. Reality as opposed to you trying to deal in some sort of fantasy because the fantasy pushes towards your own agenda.
> 
> Now, would you like people to be able to talk freely on this issue, or would you like this thread to be about how you are right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will have this thread to be about how I am right.
> 
> I will have this thread stay on course rather than have you derail it into the same old same old.
> 
> Now.....start your own thread
Click to expand...


Yes, you will have a thread that is basically "this is the way it is, if you disagree with me, get lost"

I'm sorry, but if you want that sort of thread, you can start you own forum where other people aren't allowed to talk.

However you're on THIS FORUM, and if you start a thread you'll get competing views. You might not like those views, but you have the choice to go somewhere else. Now, your last post was completely off topic, so, you can choose to stay on topic or, go somewhere else.


----------



## Indeependent

The tunnels under The Holy Temple have been, and are undergoing, massive archaeological excavation.
This is well known and my family has been there on a tour.
The tunnels are *massive*.


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You want to turn the conversation into that.
> 
> Start your own thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh right, I'm sorry, yeah, everyone should agree with you because this thread is about how you are right, I forgot that, seeing as you're wrong.
> 
> Maybe I will start a thread and anyone who disagrees with me, I'll report their posts so that the whole thread is about ME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "It's not about rights, it's about power."
> 
> The thread is called "The right to destroy Jewish History"
> 
> The Palestinians are using their power to destroy Jewish history, which should actually be their history, at least they keep saying they were around since about 10,000 years ago.
> 
> Now, where is it not about the asking What right do the Palestinians have to destroy Jewish History, and is it about power, which you are clearly trying to put on the Jewish side, because according to you Israel has the power.
> 
> Your theory falls apart because Israel has not had any "power" to stop the destruction of its own history by the hands of the very people who say they are the indigenous people of the land, and therefore all of that which they are destroying should have been Palestinian history and heritage.
> 
> Would you like to use the world power again for anything else when it comes to the Jewish people and Israel, or can you discuss what exactly is the Arab Palestinian Right.....to destroy Jewish history?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, so, if I start a thread called "the Moon is made out of cheese", you're not allowed to say that the Moon isn't made out of cheese?
> 
> Your thread says "the right to destroy Jewish History" and I think your title is rubbish. Rights exist, they protect people from government abuse of power. So, if I had a right to destroy Jewish History, I'd have protection from govt intrusion into my destruction.
> 
> However this isn't what you're talking about.
> 
> Govts don't have rights.
> 
> However potentially you're talking about whether it's morally correct for Muslims to be trying to destroy Jewish History. Well, my personal view on that would be that Israel does the same thing, so, you reap what you sow.
> 
> However at the end of the day it's all about power. If the Palestinians can destroy Jewish History, they'll try and do it. If the Israelis try and stop them, then this is their power. It's competing power.
> 
> Really you can't destroy History, you can only destroy the narrative. Often the narrative is what one side decides is the narrative.
> 
> Back to the Armenian Genocide. Did it happen? Well, according to the Turks and the Israelis, no, it did not happen. According to the Armenians, yes, it did happen. Both of these are "History", both of them are different Narratives.
> 
> Now, are the Palestinians trying to destroy the true History of Israel and the Jews or are they trying to destroy the narrative that the Israelis and Jews claim is their History?
> 
> Two very different things.
> 
> No, my argument doesn't fall apart. Israel has a lot of power, it has billions of US dollars, the backing of the US and weapons that make it formidable opponent in battle. It also has the UN which it is currently using, with US backing, to try and force the UN to go by Israeli narratives rather than Muslim.
> 
> Your argument is basically "boohoo, the Jews are the victims from the aggression of the Muslims", I disagree with that argument. Israel is fighting just as much as the Palestinians are for the power they want to hold.
> 
> I will continue to use the word power, because, unfortunately in this world, power is what counts and what is right or not gets left behind. Reality as opposed to you trying to deal in some sort of fantasy because the fantasy pushes towards your own agenda.
> 
> Now, would you like people to be able to talk freely on this issue, or would you like this thread to be about how you are right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will have this thread to be about how I am right.
> 
> I will have this thread stay on course rather than have you derail it into the same old same old.
> 
> Now.....start your own thread
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, you will have a thread that is basically "this is the way it is, if you disagree with me, get lost"
> 
> I'm sorry, but if you want that sort of thread, you can start you own forum where other people aren't allowed to talk.
> 
> However you're on THIS FORUM, and if you start a thread you'll get competing views. You might not like those views, but you have the choice to go somewhere else. Now, your last post was completely off topic, so, you can choose to stay on topic or, go somewhere else.
Click to expand...

You are not giving competing views.  You are derailing the topic and turning yourself into a sad pathetic "victim" of the Joooosssss.

That is exactly what this and your last post have been about.

You wish to give your "opinion" you go ahead.  Stay on topic.

The Right to Destroy Jewish History is the topic of this thread.

What do you really have to contribute to it without blaming Jews and Israel for any of it?


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh right, I'm sorry, yeah, everyone should agree with you because this thread is about how you are right, I forgot that, seeing as you're wrong.
> 
> Maybe I will start a thread and anyone who disagrees with me, I'll report their posts so that the whole thread is about ME.
> 
> 
> 
> "It's not about rights, it's about power."
> 
> The thread is called "The right to destroy Jewish History"
> 
> The Palestinians are using their power to destroy Jewish history, which should actually be their history, at least they keep saying they were around since about 10,000 years ago.
> 
> Now, where is it not about the asking What right do the Palestinians have to destroy Jewish History, and is it about power, which you are clearly trying to put on the Jewish side, because according to you Israel has the power.
> 
> Your theory falls apart because Israel has not had any "power" to stop the destruction of its own history by the hands of the very people who say they are the indigenous people of the land, and therefore all of that which they are destroying should have been Palestinian history and heritage.
> 
> Would you like to use the world power again for anything else when it comes to the Jewish people and Israel, or can you discuss what exactly is the Arab Palestinian Right.....to destroy Jewish history?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, so, if I start a thread called "the Moon is made out of cheese", you're not allowed to say that the Moon isn't made out of cheese?
> 
> Your thread says "the right to destroy Jewish History" and I think your title is rubbish. Rights exist, they protect people from government abuse of power. So, if I had a right to destroy Jewish History, I'd have protection from govt intrusion into my destruction.
> 
> However this isn't what you're talking about.
> 
> Govts don't have rights.
> 
> However potentially you're talking about whether it's morally correct for Muslims to be trying to destroy Jewish History. Well, my personal view on that would be that Israel does the same thing, so, you reap what you sow.
> 
> However at the end of the day it's all about power. If the Palestinians can destroy Jewish History, they'll try and do it. If the Israelis try and stop them, then this is their power. It's competing power.
> 
> Really you can't destroy History, you can only destroy the narrative. Often the narrative is what one side decides is the narrative.
> 
> Back to the Armenian Genocide. Did it happen? Well, according to the Turks and the Israelis, no, it did not happen. According to the Armenians, yes, it did happen. Both of these are "History", both of them are different Narratives.
> 
> Now, are the Palestinians trying to destroy the true History of Israel and the Jews or are they trying to destroy the narrative that the Israelis and Jews claim is their History?
> 
> Two very different things.
> 
> No, my argument doesn't fall apart. Israel has a lot of power, it has billions of US dollars, the backing of the US and weapons that make it formidable opponent in battle. It also has the UN which it is currently using, with US backing, to try and force the UN to go by Israeli narratives rather than Muslim.
> 
> Your argument is basically "boohoo, the Jews are the victims from the aggression of the Muslims", I disagree with that argument. Israel is fighting just as much as the Palestinians are for the power they want to hold.
> 
> I will continue to use the word power, because, unfortunately in this world, power is what counts and what is right or not gets left behind. Reality as opposed to you trying to deal in some sort of fantasy because the fantasy pushes towards your own agenda.
> 
> Now, would you like people to be able to talk freely on this issue, or would you like this thread to be about how you are right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will have this thread to be about how I am right.
> 
> I will have this thread stay on course rather than have you derail it into the same old same old.
> 
> Now.....start your own thread
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, you will have a thread that is basically "this is the way it is, if you disagree with me, get lost"
> 
> I'm sorry, but if you want that sort of thread, you can start you own forum where other people aren't allowed to talk.
> 
> However you're on THIS FORUM, and if you start a thread you'll get competing views. You might not like those views, but you have the choice to go somewhere else. Now, your last post was completely off topic, so, you can choose to stay on topic or, go somewhere else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are not giving competing views.  You are derailing the topic and turning yourself into a sad pathetic "victim" of the Joooosssss.
> 
> That is exactly what this and your last post have been about.
> 
> You wish to give your "opinion" you go ahead.  Stay on topic.
> 
> The Right to Destroy Jewish History is the topic of this thread.
> 
> What do you really have to contribute to it without blaming Jews and Israel for any of it?
Click to expand...


Yes, I'm "derailing" a topic where the only responses allowed are the ones you've decided are right. Anything you don't like is "derailing" the topic.

Oh, please. 

I'm the one on topic. You're the one screaming and shouting like a little child who doesn't get what they want. 

And now you throw more of this "we're the victim". So, let's get this straight. In this topic to "stay on topic" you're not allowed to criticize Jews or Israelis at all?

Do you realize just how much bullshit that is? 

Again, my analogy about making a thread called "the Moon is made of cheese" and then anyone who says that the Moon isn't made of cheese is "off topic" springs to mind.


----------



## Shusha

frigidweirdo said:


> However potentially you're talking about whether it's morally correct for Muslims to be trying to destroy Jewish History. Well, my personal view on that would be that Israel does the same thing ...



Examples, please, of Israel destroying historical artifacts or usurping Muslim holy places?  Can you point me in the direction of the website for the Muslim Sifting Project?  What thousands year old historical monuments is Israel bulldozing?


----------



## frigidweirdo

Shusha said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> However potentially you're talking about whether it's morally correct for Muslims to be trying to destroy Jewish History. Well, my personal view on that would be that Israel does the same thing ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Examples, please, of Israel destroying historical artifacts or usurping Muslim holy places?  Can you point me in the direction of the website for the Muslim Sifting Project?  What thousands year old historical monuments is Israel bulldozing?
Click to expand...


http://english.alarabiya.net/en/lif...ancient-sites-in-Palestinian-territories.html

"
*Israel ‘destroys’ ancient Palestinian sites*"

"Several ancient archeological sites were “destroyed” after the Israeli Antiquities Authority conducted controversial digs in the Palestinian neighborhood of Silwan in East Jerusalem, a Palestinian news agency reported Wednesday."

Israel's war on Palestinian culture

"In a new article made available today by the journal _Jerusalem Quarterly,_ activist and The Electronic Intifada contributor Hannah Mermelstein discusses a lesser known part of the ethnic cleansing of Palestine — the attempted annihilation of the Palestinian nation through cultural theft and destruction."


----------



## Shusha

frigidweirdo said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> However potentially you're talking about whether it's morally correct for Muslims to be trying to destroy Jewish History. Well, my personal view on that would be that Israel does the same thing ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Examples, please, of Israel destroying historical artifacts or usurping Muslim holy places?  Can you point me in the direction of the website for the Muslim Sifting Project?  What thousands year old historical monuments is Israel bulldozing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> http://english.alarabiya.net/en/lif...ancient-sites-in-Palestinian-territories.html
> 
> "
> *Israel ‘destroys’ ancient Palestinian sites*"
> 
> "Several ancient archeological sites were “destroyed” after the Israeli Antiquities Authority conducted controversial digs in the Palestinian neighborhood of Silwan in East Jerusalem, a Palestinian news agency reported Wednesday."
> 
> Israel's war on Palestinian culture
> 
> "In a new article made available today by the journal _Jerusalem Quarterly,_ activist and The Electronic Intifada contributor Hannah Mermelstein discusses a lesser known part of the ethnic cleansing of Palestine — the attempted annihilation of the Palestinian nation through cultural theft and destruction."
Click to expand...



The second article is actually an example of the preservation of culture.

The first one seems suspicious with its "destroys" in quotes and is sourced from a single news article.  I remember something about this story from months ago.  I'll look into it and get back.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Shusha said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> However potentially you're talking about whether it's morally correct for Muslims to be trying to destroy Jewish History. Well, my personal view on that would be that Israel does the same thing ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Examples, please, of Israel destroying historical artifacts or usurping Muslim holy places?  Can you point me in the direction of the website for the Muslim Sifting Project?  What thousands year old historical monuments is Israel bulldozing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel ‘destroys’ ancient Palestinian sites
> 
> "
> *Israel ‘destroys’ ancient Palestinian sites*"
> 
> "Several ancient archeological sites were “destroyed” after the Israeli Antiquities Authority conducted controversial digs in the Palestinian neighborhood of Silwan in East Jerusalem, a Palestinian news agency reported Wednesday."
> 
> Israel's war on Palestinian culture
> 
> "In a new article made available today by the journal _Jerusalem Quarterly,_ activist and The Electronic Intifada contributor Hannah Mermelstein discusses a lesser known part of the ethnic cleansing of Palestine — the attempted annihilation of the Palestinian nation through cultural theft and destruction."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The second article is actually an example of the preservation of culture.
> 
> The first one seems suspicious with its "destroys" in quotes and is sourced from a single news article.  I remember something about this story from months ago.  I'll look into it and get back.
Click to expand...


Well, it doesn't really matter, does it? The Palestinians accuse the Israelis, the Israelis accuse the Palestinians and they do it in order to convince other people, to get people on their side and gain more power.


----------



## Shusha

frigidweirdo said:


> Well, it doesn't really matter, does it? The Palestinians accuse the Israelis, the Israelis accuse the Palestinians and they do it in order to convince other people, to get people on their side and gain more power.



On the contrary, how sensitive issues such as this are handled matters a great deal.  

Here is a much more balanced article explaining the controversy in Israel over the Mamilla Cemetery.  

_The Muslim community had neglected the Mamilla cemetery for many years; the Al-Aqsa Association acted out of confrontational, political motives ‏(which served only to weaken the legal fight against the museum‏); the existence of a parking lot on the site for two decades damages the case for opposing construction; the construction of the Palace Hotel in 1929 by the grand mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, although technically outside the formal boundaries of the cemetery, created a precedent for ignoring the sanctity of the graves; and in Israel and Muslim countries, a norm exists for changing the designation of old cemeteries to allow for urban development.

In effect, Reiter claims in his book, the High Court of Justice did not view the plot of land allotted for the museum as part of a historic cemetery with special status in Muslim eyes, as the resting place of renowned Muslim figures since the 12th century. The ruling, he notes, treated the land as though it were located outside the cemetery, as the Wiesenthal Center argued, and as if human bones were discovered there incidentally, once work began at the site, rather than as a religiously and formally sanctified place. Framing the matter this way, Reiter concludes, is what determined court’s ruling approving the continued construction. _

This is blatantly different from the wanton destruction of Jewish historical sites by Muslims, Arabs and Palestinians.  Such as the 400 truck loads of soil removed from the Temple Mount and dumped into a garbage heap without so much as a nod to the irreplaceable archaeological value.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Shusha said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it doesn't really matter, does it? The Palestinians accuse the Israelis, the Israelis accuse the Palestinians and they do it in order to convince other people, to get people on their side and gain more power.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the contrary, how sensitive issues such as this are handled matters a great deal.
> 
> Here is a much more balanced article explaining the controversy in Israel over the Mamilla Cemetery.
> 
> _The Muslim community had neglected the Mamilla cemetery for many years; the Al-Aqsa Association acted out of confrontational, political motives ‏(which served only to weaken the legal fight against the museum‏); the existence of a parking lot on the site for two decades damages the case for opposing construction; the construction of the Palace Hotel in 1929 by the grand mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, although technically outside the formal boundaries of the cemetery, created a precedent for ignoring the sanctity of the graves; and in Israel and Muslim countries, a norm exists for changing the designation of old cemeteries to allow for urban development.
> 
> In effect, Reiter claims in his book, the High Court of Justice did not view the plot of land allotted for the museum as part of a historic cemetery with special status in Muslim eyes, as the resting place of renowned Muslim figures since the 12th century. The ruling, he notes, treated the land as though it were located outside the cemetery, as the Wiesenthal Center argued, and as if human bones were discovered there incidentally, once work began at the site, rather than as a religiously and formally sanctified place. Framing the matter this way, Reiter concludes, is what determined court’s ruling approving the continued construction. _
> 
> This is blatantly different from the wanton destruction of Jewish historical sites by Muslims, Arabs and Palestinians.  Such as the 400 truck loads of soil removed from the Temple Mount and dumped into a garbage heap without so much as a nod to the irreplaceable archaeological value.
Click to expand...


Well, yes, how they are handled matters. The problem in that area right now is that the right wing on both sides is using conflict to enhance their own positions. 

What I meant by "it doesn't matter" is that the REALITY isn't important, it's the narrative that each side is producing that is important, that is what is pushing this whole thing, rather than the reality of whether this cultural site is "destroyed" or whatever. If the Palestinian people BELIEVE something has happened, or the Israeli people BELIEVE something has happened, then this is more important than whether it actually happened or not.


----------



## Shusha

frigidweirdo said:


> Well, yes, how they are handled matters. The problem in that area right now is that the right wing on both sides is using conflict to enhance their own positions.
> 
> What I meant by "it doesn't matter" is that the REALITY isn't important, it's the narrative that each side is producing that is important, that is what is pushing this whole thing, rather than the reality of whether this cultural site is "destroyed" or whatever. If the Palestinian people BELIEVE something has happened, or the Israeli people BELIEVE something has happened, then this is more important than whether it actually happened or not.



I actually hear what you are saying.  However, the Arabs (and not just the Palestinians) are using the actual destruction of history as evidence that the Jewish people don't have a history in that land.  They are creating a false reality, a false historical record, to erase the Jewish people.  Deliberately.  Intentionally.  This is VASTLY different than Israel being insensitive about a Muslim burial ground.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Shusha said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes, how they are handled matters. The problem in that area right now is that the right wing on both sides is using conflict to enhance their own positions.
> 
> What I meant by "it doesn't matter" is that the REALITY isn't important, it's the narrative that each side is producing that is important, that is what is pushing this whole thing, rather than the reality of whether this cultural site is "destroyed" or whatever. If the Palestinian people BELIEVE something has happened, or the Israeli people BELIEVE something has happened, then this is more important than whether it actually happened or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I actually hear what you are saying.  However, the Arabs (and not just the Palestinians) are using the actual destruction of history as evidence that the Jewish people don't have a history in that land.  They are creating a false reality, a false historical record, to erase the Jewish people.  Deliberately.  Intentionally.  This is VASTLY different than Israel being insensitive about a Muslim burial ground.
Click to expand...


Well, both sides are creating a false narrative. 

Israel is pushing conflict for a reason, and that reason is an excuse to push the boundaries of the state. Without conflict they could never get the support to do this. 

There are different ways to try and do this, they're all bad, but this doesn't mean that Israel is any less guilty of trying to destroy culture in order to try and control the narrative.


----------



## Shusha

frigidweirdo said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes, how they are handled matters. The problem in that area right now is that the right wing on both sides is using conflict to enhance their own positions.
> 
> What I meant by "it doesn't matter" is that the REALITY isn't important, it's the narrative that each side is producing that is important, that is what is pushing this whole thing, rather than the reality of whether this cultural site is "destroyed" or whatever. If the Palestinian people BELIEVE something has happened, or the Israeli people BELIEVE something has happened, then this is more important than whether it actually happened or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I actually hear what you are saying.  However, the Arabs (and not just the Palestinians) are using the actual destruction of history as evidence that the Jewish people don't have a history in that land.  They are creating a false reality, a false historical record, to erase the Jewish people.  Deliberately.  Intentionally.  This is VASTLY different than Israel being insensitive about a Muslim burial ground.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, both sides are creating a false narrative.
> 
> Israel is pushing conflict for a reason, and that reason is an excuse to push the boundaries of the state. Without conflict they could never get the support to do this.
> 
> There are different ways to try and do this, they're all bad, but this doesn't mean that Israel is any less guilty of trying to destroy culture in order to try and control the narrative.
Click to expand...


But Israel is NOT destroying culture to control the narrative.


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes, how they are handled matters. The problem in that area right now is that the right wing on both sides is using conflict to enhance their own positions.
> 
> What I meant by "it doesn't matter" is that the REALITY isn't important, it's the narrative that each side is producing that is important, that is what is pushing this whole thing, rather than the reality of whether this cultural site is "destroyed" or whatever. If the Palestinian people BELIEVE something has happened, or the Israeli people BELIEVE something has happened, then this is more important than whether it actually happened or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I actually hear what you are saying.  However, the Arabs (and not just the Palestinians) are using the actual destruction of history as evidence that the Jewish people don't have a history in that land.  They are creating a false reality, a false historical record, to erase the Jewish people.  Deliberately.  Intentionally.  This is VASTLY different than Israel being insensitive about a Muslim burial ground.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, both sides are creating a false narrative.
> 
> Israel is pushing conflict for a reason, and that reason is an excuse to push the boundaries of the state. Without conflict they could never get the support to do this.
> 
> There are different ways to try and do this, they're all bad, but this doesn't mean that Israel is any less guilty of trying to destroy culture in order to try and control the narrative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But Israel is NOT destroying culture to control the narrative.
Click to expand...


Claiming that a people do not exist is tantamount to destroying their culture.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Shusha said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes, how they are handled matters. The problem in that area right now is that the right wing on both sides is using conflict to enhance their own positions.
> 
> What I meant by "it doesn't matter" is that the REALITY isn't important, it's the narrative that each side is producing that is important, that is what is pushing this whole thing, rather than the reality of whether this cultural site is "destroyed" or whatever. If the Palestinian people BELIEVE something has happened, or the Israeli people BELIEVE something has happened, then this is more important than whether it actually happened or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I actually hear what you are saying.  However, the Arabs (and not just the Palestinians) are using the actual destruction of history as evidence that the Jewish people don't have a history in that land.  They are creating a false reality, a false historical record, to erase the Jewish people.  Deliberately.  Intentionally.  This is VASTLY different than Israel being insensitive about a Muslim burial ground.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, both sides are creating a false narrative.
> 
> Israel is pushing conflict for a reason, and that reason is an excuse to push the boundaries of the state. Without conflict they could never get the support to do this.
> 
> There are different ways to try and do this, they're all bad, but this doesn't mean that Israel is any less guilty of trying to destroy culture in order to try and control the narrative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But Israel is NOT destroying culture to control the narrative.
Click to expand...


Is it not?

Palestinian refugee camps - Wikipedia

Why do such camps exist? How can culture not be destroyed when people don't even have their own home?

Israel to demolish village in West Bank

Destroying villages doesn't destroy culture? Sure it does. We're not talking historical artifacts here, we're talking people's lives. That's where culture comes from. 

Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel

"The Jewish people base their claim to the land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham; 2) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 3) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people and 4) the territory was captured in defensive wars."

Claims for the land of Israel/Palestine to be Jewish are stated here. 1) is that "God promised the land" to them. That's pretty far fetched from where I'm sitting to use your own religion as justification for kicking other people off the land. 

2) is probably the only one with any real substance here. That they have been a presence in the land, along with the Muslims, means that both should share the land, rather than trying to claim it all. 

Israel IS a Jewish country

But here we have "*Israel IS a Jewish country"*

So, if it's a Jewish country, what about the Muslims who have lived in the region their whole life?

If they're trying to make it a Jewish country, what happens to Muslim or any other culture? 

When Israel was granted the land by countries from nowhere near Israel, they displaced lots of people, took over and imposed their own culture on the land. To me that's a destruction of culture. It'd be impossible to do what Israel has done without that.


----------



## there4eyeM

How can U.S. tax dollars be used to aid a religion?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let us not discuss that.
> They always end up moving the conversation to the "Jews".
> 
> What right do the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians have of destroying Jewish History.  That is what I would love to find out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not about rights, it's about power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You want to turn the conversation into that.
> 
> Start your own thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh right, I'm sorry, yeah, everyone should agree with you because this thread is about how you are right, I forgot that, seeing as you're wrong.
> 
> Maybe I will start a thread and anyone who disagrees with me, I'll report their posts so that the whole thread is about ME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "It's not about rights, it's about power."
> 
> The thread is called "The right to destroy Jewish History"
> 
> The Palestinians are using their power to destroy Jewish history, which should actually be their history, at least they keep saying they were around since about 10,000 years ago.
> 
> Now, where is it not about the asking What right do the Palestinians have to destroy Jewish History, and is it about power, which you are clearly trying to put on the Jewish side, because according to you Israel has the power.
> 
> Your theory falls apart because Israel has not had any "power" to stop the destruction of its own history by the hands of the very people who say they are the indigenous people of the land, and therefore all of that which they are destroying should have been Palestinian history and heritage.
> 
> Would you like to use the world power again for anything else when it comes to the Jewish people and Israel, or can you discuss what exactly is the Arab Palestinian Right.....to destroy Jewish history?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, so, if I start a thread called "the Moon is made out of cheese", you're not allowed to say that the Moon isn't made out of cheese?
> 
> Your thread says "the right to destroy Jewish History" and I think your title is rubbish. Rights exist, they protect people from government abuse of power. So, if I had a right to destroy Jewish History, I'd have protection from govt intrusion into my destruction.
> 
> However this isn't what you're talking about.
> 
> Govts don't have rights.
> 
> However potentially you're talking about whether it's morally correct for Muslims to be trying to destroy Jewish History. Well, my personal view on that would be that Israel does the same thing, so, you reap what you sow.
> 
> However at the end of the day it's all about power. If the Palestinians can destroy Jewish History, they'll try and do it. If the Israelis try and stop them, then this is their power. It's competing power.
> 
> Really you can't destroy History, you can only destroy the narrative. Often the narrative is what one side decides is the narrative.
> 
> Back to the Armenian Genocide. Did it happen? Well, according to the Turks and the Israelis, no, it did not happen. According to the Armenians, yes, it did happen. Both of these are "History", both of them are different Narratives.
> 
> Now, are the Palestinians trying to destroy the true History of Israel and the Jews or are they trying to destroy the narrative that the Israelis and Jews claim is their History?
> 
> Two very different things.
> 
> No, my argument doesn't fall apart. Israel has a lot of power, it has billions of US dollars, the backing of the US and weapons that make it formidable opponent in battle. It also has the UN which it is currently using, with US backing, to try and force the UN to go by Israeli narratives rather than Muslim.
> 
> Your argument is basically "boohoo, the Jews are the victims from the aggression of the Muslims", I disagree with that argument. Israel is fighting just as much as the Palestinians are for the power they want to hold.
> 
> I will continue to use the word power, because, unfortunately in this world, power is what counts and what is right or not gets left behind. Reality as opposed to you trying to deal in some sort of fantasy because the fantasy pushes towards your own agenda.
> 
> Now, would you like people to be able to talk freely on this issue, or would you like this thread to be about how you are right?
Click to expand...



I don't know what Israel's official position on TURKEY's genocide of Armenians in 1914 is.  I do know about realities on the ground.  Jerusalem's Old City is divided into 4 Quarters--Jewish, Muslim, Christian and Armenian.  My best friend moved to Israel and, for a time, taught in an Armenian school in their Quarter of the Old City.  He told me that there are many monuments to their genocide in their Quarter.  Their genocide is taught very extensively in their schools, and they have their own holiday to remember that event.  Israel does not prohibit any of this, nor is there any reason why they should do so.  The Armenian genocide falls on Turkey's shoulders, not Israel's in any way.


----------



## Sixties Fan

ForeverYoung436 said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not about rights, it's about power.
> 
> 
> 
> You want to turn the conversation into that.
> 
> Start your own thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh right, I'm sorry, yeah, everyone should agree with you because this thread is about how you are right, I forgot that, seeing as you're wrong.
> 
> Maybe I will start a thread and anyone who disagrees with me, I'll report their posts so that the whole thread is about ME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "It's not about rights, it's about power."
> 
> The thread is called "The right to destroy Jewish History"
> 
> The Palestinians are using their power to destroy Jewish history, which should actually be their history, at least they keep saying they were around since about 10,000 years ago.
> 
> Now, where is it not about the asking What right do the Palestinians have to destroy Jewish History, and is it about power, which you are clearly trying to put on the Jewish side, because according to you Israel has the power.
> 
> Your theory falls apart because Israel has not had any "power" to stop the destruction of its own history by the hands of the very people who say they are the indigenous people of the land, and therefore all of that which they are destroying should have been Palestinian history and heritage.
> 
> Would you like to use the world power again for anything else when it comes to the Jewish people and Israel, or can you discuss what exactly is the Arab Palestinian Right.....to destroy Jewish history?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, so, if I start a thread called "the Moon is made out of cheese", you're not allowed to say that the Moon isn't made out of cheese?
> 
> Your thread says "the right to destroy Jewish History" and I think your title is rubbish. Rights exist, they protect people from government abuse of power. So, if I had a right to destroy Jewish History, I'd have protection from govt intrusion into my destruction.
> 
> However this isn't what you're talking about.
> 
> Govts don't have rights.
> 
> However potentially you're talking about whether it's morally correct for Muslims to be trying to destroy Jewish History. Well, my personal view on that would be that Israel does the same thing, so, you reap what you sow.
> 
> However at the end of the day it's all about power. If the Palestinians can destroy Jewish History, they'll try and do it. If the Israelis try and stop them, then this is their power. It's competing power.
> 
> Really you can't destroy History, you can only destroy the narrative. Often the narrative is what one side decides is the narrative.
> 
> Back to the Armenian Genocide. Did it happen? Well, according to the Turks and the Israelis, no, it did not happen. According to the Armenians, yes, it did happen. Both of these are "History", both of them are different Narratives.
> 
> Now, are the Palestinians trying to destroy the true History of Israel and the Jews or are they trying to destroy the narrative that the Israelis and Jews claim is their History?
> 
> Two very different things.
> 
> No, my argument doesn't fall apart. Israel has a lot of power, it has billions of US dollars, the backing of the US and weapons that make it formidable opponent in battle. It also has the UN which it is currently using, with US backing, to try and force the UN to go by Israeli narratives rather than Muslim.
> 
> Your argument is basically "boohoo, the Jews are the victims from the aggression of the Muslims", I disagree with that argument. Israel is fighting just as much as the Palestinians are for the power they want to hold.
> 
> I will continue to use the word power, because, unfortunately in this world, power is what counts and what is right or not gets left behind. Reality as opposed to you trying to deal in some sort of fantasy because the fantasy pushes towards your own agenda.
> 
> Now, would you like people to be able to talk freely on this issue, or would you like this thread to be about how you are right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what Israel's official position on TURKEY's genocide of Armenians in 1914 is.  I do know about realities on the ground.  Jerusalem's Old City is divided into 4 Quarters--Jewish, Muslim, Christian and Armenian.  My best friend moved to Israel and, for a time, taught in an Armenian school in their Quarter of the Old City.  He told me that there are many monuments to their genocide in their Quarter.  Their genocide is taught very extensively in their schools, and they have their own holiday to remember that event.  Israel does not prohibit any of this, nor is there any reason why they should do so.  The Armenian genocide falls on Turkey's shoulders, not Israel's in any way.
Click to expand...

I would say that Jews in general have condemned the Armenian genocide.
Israel, because it had been trying to cultivate a peaceful relationship with Turkey ( who knows what it is like now with Erdogan's stand on Jerusalem and many other things, which is no different with what he did with the flotilla.....)  it treads carefully, diplomatically on the subject.

There is a list on Wikepedia of all the countries which had condemned the genocide to this day.  Israel is not the only country which has not done it, and we do not know the reason for so many other countries for not condemning Turkey to this day.

All of this needs to be taken with a grain of salt, the same way as it is with Russia and China and many other countries where abuse or murder of the population has happened.


----------



## frigidweirdo

ForeverYoung436 said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not about rights, it's about power.
> 
> 
> 
> You want to turn the conversation into that.
> 
> Start your own thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh right, I'm sorry, yeah, everyone should agree with you because this thread is about how you are right, I forgot that, seeing as you're wrong.
> 
> Maybe I will start a thread and anyone who disagrees with me, I'll report their posts so that the whole thread is about ME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "It's not about rights, it's about power."
> 
> The thread is called "The right to destroy Jewish History"
> 
> The Palestinians are using their power to destroy Jewish history, which should actually be their history, at least they keep saying they were around since about 10,000 years ago.
> 
> Now, where is it not about the asking What right do the Palestinians have to destroy Jewish History, and is it about power, which you are clearly trying to put on the Jewish side, because according to you Israel has the power.
> 
> Your theory falls apart because Israel has not had any "power" to stop the destruction of its own history by the hands of the very people who say they are the indigenous people of the land, and therefore all of that which they are destroying should have been Palestinian history and heritage.
> 
> Would you like to use the world power again for anything else when it comes to the Jewish people and Israel, or can you discuss what exactly is the Arab Palestinian Right.....to destroy Jewish history?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, so, if I start a thread called "the Moon is made out of cheese", you're not allowed to say that the Moon isn't made out of cheese?
> 
> Your thread says "the right to destroy Jewish History" and I think your title is rubbish. Rights exist, they protect people from government abuse of power. So, if I had a right to destroy Jewish History, I'd have protection from govt intrusion into my destruction.
> 
> However this isn't what you're talking about.
> 
> Govts don't have rights.
> 
> However potentially you're talking about whether it's morally correct for Muslims to be trying to destroy Jewish History. Well, my personal view on that would be that Israel does the same thing, so, you reap what you sow.
> 
> However at the end of the day it's all about power. If the Palestinians can destroy Jewish History, they'll try and do it. If the Israelis try and stop them, then this is their power. It's competing power.
> 
> Really you can't destroy History, you can only destroy the narrative. Often the narrative is what one side decides is the narrative.
> 
> Back to the Armenian Genocide. Did it happen? Well, according to the Turks and the Israelis, no, it did not happen. According to the Armenians, yes, it did happen. Both of these are "History", both of them are different Narratives.
> 
> Now, are the Palestinians trying to destroy the true History of Israel and the Jews or are they trying to destroy the narrative that the Israelis and Jews claim is their History?
> 
> Two very different things.
> 
> No, my argument doesn't fall apart. Israel has a lot of power, it has billions of US dollars, the backing of the US and weapons that make it formidable opponent in battle. It also has the UN which it is currently using, with US backing, to try and force the UN to go by Israeli narratives rather than Muslim.
> 
> Your argument is basically "boohoo, the Jews are the victims from the aggression of the Muslims", I disagree with that argument. Israel is fighting just as much as the Palestinians are for the power they want to hold.
> 
> I will continue to use the word power, because, unfortunately in this world, power is what counts and what is right or not gets left behind. Reality as opposed to you trying to deal in some sort of fantasy because the fantasy pushes towards your own agenda.
> 
> Now, would you like people to be able to talk freely on this issue, or would you like this thread to be about how you are right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what Israel's official position on TURKEY's genocide of Armenians in 1914 is.  I do know about realities on the ground.  Jerusalem's Old City is divided into 4 Quarters--Jewish, Muslim, Christian and Armenian.  My best friend moved to Israel and, for a time, taught in an Armenian school in their Quarter of the Old City.  He told me that there are many monuments to their genocide in their Quarter.  Their genocide is taught very extensively in their schools, and they have their own holiday to remember that event.  Israel does not prohibit any of this, nor is there any reason why they should do so.  The Armenian genocide falls on Turkey's shoulders, not Israel's in any way.
Click to expand...


Well, you should go look up Israel's position on the Armenian Genocide. It's very telling.

Why Israel does not recognize the Armenian ‘genocide’

Israel won't recognize Armenian genocide, says ambassador

"Israel Won't Recognize Armenian Genocide, Says Ambassador"

No, Israel doesn't need to ban such things because banning such things would destroy what they want to achieve from not recognizing the massacre, which is publicity of the massacre. 

Israel wants the sole power of victimization from the Holocaust. 

United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

US Holocaust Museum in DC

You look at the website it says "Learn about the Holocaust" "Remember survivors and victims" and "Confront genocide antisemitism" 

Yes, antisemitism is there. Sure, the Holocaust was a big loss to the Jewish people, a terrible time for their people, but the Holocaust wasn't just antisemitism, it was anti a lot of things, like Gypsies and the like too. 

Learn about the Holocaust — United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

"The Holocaust was the systematic, bureaucratic, state-sponsored persecution and murder of six million Jews by the Nazi regime and its collaborators."

No, that's bullshit. It wasn't JUST the killing of 6 million Jews by the Nazis. That was a large part of it, but not the only part. 

Jews and Israel have tried to make the Holocaust into THEIR event, and ONLY their event. Others who died in the Holocaust MUST BE forgotten so that Israel can reap the victimization of this to its fullest extent. 

Not accepting the Armenian Holocaust is a major part of this.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You want to turn the conversation into that.
> 
> Start your own thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh right, I'm sorry, yeah, everyone should agree with you because this thread is about how you are right, I forgot that, seeing as you're wrong.
> 
> Maybe I will start a thread and anyone who disagrees with me, I'll report their posts so that the whole thread is about ME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "It's not about rights, it's about power."
> 
> The thread is called "The right to destroy Jewish History"
> 
> The Palestinians are using their power to destroy Jewish history, which should actually be their history, at least they keep saying they were around since about 10,000 years ago.
> 
> Now, where is it not about the asking What right do the Palestinians have to destroy Jewish History, and is it about power, which you are clearly trying to put on the Jewish side, because according to you Israel has the power.
> 
> Your theory falls apart because Israel has not had any "power" to stop the destruction of its own history by the hands of the very people who say they are the indigenous people of the land, and therefore all of that which they are destroying should have been Palestinian history and heritage.
> 
> Would you like to use the world power again for anything else when it comes to the Jewish people and Israel, or can you discuss what exactly is the Arab Palestinian Right.....to destroy Jewish history?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, so, if I start a thread called "the Moon is made out of cheese", you're not allowed to say that the Moon isn't made out of cheese?
> 
> Your thread says "the right to destroy Jewish History" and I think your title is rubbish. Rights exist, they protect people from government abuse of power. So, if I had a right to destroy Jewish History, I'd have protection from govt intrusion into my destruction.
> 
> However this isn't what you're talking about.
> 
> Govts don't have rights.
> 
> However potentially you're talking about whether it's morally correct for Muslims to be trying to destroy Jewish History. Well, my personal view on that would be that Israel does the same thing, so, you reap what you sow.
> 
> However at the end of the day it's all about power. If the Palestinians can destroy Jewish History, they'll try and do it. If the Israelis try and stop them, then this is their power. It's competing power.
> 
> Really you can't destroy History, you can only destroy the narrative. Often the narrative is what one side decides is the narrative.
> 
> Back to the Armenian Genocide. Did it happen? Well, according to the Turks and the Israelis, no, it did not happen. According to the Armenians, yes, it did happen. Both of these are "History", both of them are different Narratives.
> 
> Now, are the Palestinians trying to destroy the true History of Israel and the Jews or are they trying to destroy the narrative that the Israelis and Jews claim is their History?
> 
> Two very different things.
> 
> No, my argument doesn't fall apart. Israel has a lot of power, it has billions of US dollars, the backing of the US and weapons that make it formidable opponent in battle. It also has the UN which it is currently using, with US backing, to try and force the UN to go by Israeli narratives rather than Muslim.
> 
> Your argument is basically "boohoo, the Jews are the victims from the aggression of the Muslims", I disagree with that argument. Israel is fighting just as much as the Palestinians are for the power they want to hold.
> 
> I will continue to use the word power, because, unfortunately in this world, power is what counts and what is right or not gets left behind. Reality as opposed to you trying to deal in some sort of fantasy because the fantasy pushes towards your own agenda.
> 
> Now, would you like people to be able to talk freely on this issue, or would you like this thread to be about how you are right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what Israel's official position on TURKEY's genocide of Armenians in 1914 is.  I do know about realities on the ground.  Jerusalem's Old City is divided into 4 Quarters--Jewish, Muslim, Christian and Armenian.  My best friend moved to Israel and, for a time, taught in an Armenian school in their Quarter of the Old City.  He told me that there are many monuments to their genocide in their Quarter.  Their genocide is taught very extensively in their schools, and they have their own holiday to remember that event.  Israel does not prohibit any of this, nor is there any reason why they should do so.  The Armenian genocide falls on Turkey's shoulders, not Israel's in any way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would say that Jews in general have condemned the Armenian genocide.
> Israel, because it had been trying to cultivate a peaceful relationship with Turkey ( who knows what it is like now with Erdogan's stand on Jerusalem and many other things, which is no different with what he did with the flotilla.....)  it treads carefully, diplomatically on the subject.
> 
> There is a list on Wikepedia of all the countries which had condemned the genocide to this day.  Israel is not the only country which has not done it, and we do not know the reason for so many other countries for not condemning Turkey to this day.
> 
> All of this needs to be taken with a grain of salt, the same way as it is with Russia and China and many other countries where abuse or murder of the population has happened.
Click to expand...








Here's a map of who recognizes it (green) and those where there's partial recognition (light green).


----------



## admonit

Sixties Fan said:


> There is a list on Wikepedia of all the countries which had condemned the genocide to this day.  Israel is not the only country which has not done it


The US didn't it too. According to the list only 29 states have officially recognized the Armenian Genocide.


----------



## Humanity

No one has the right to destroy history. No matter whos it is!


----------



## Coyote

*Folks, we are getting off topic, lets return to the topic please *


----------



## Shusha

frigidweirdo said:


> Is it not?
> 
> Palestinian refugee camps - Wikipedia
> 
> Why do such camps exist? How can culture not be destroyed when people don't even have their own home?



Why do you conflate the intentional destruction of culture with these other topics?  The Arabs are deliberately destroying physical artifacts and archaeological sites so that Jewish history becomes lost, non-existent, disappeared.  They are doing this specifically for the purpose of denying Jewish history and therefore Jewish claim.  They are destroying reality in order to create a false history.  (And its working -- see all the ridiculous claims being made on this board and in the Arab world). 

This has nothing to do with the camps.  And I can say with absolute certainty that a culture is NOT destroyed when people don't even have their own home.  The Jewish culture is alive and well and thriving after thousands of years in the Diaspora.  But THANK YOU for articulating another fear and concern about why the Jewish people must remain linked to and present in the Jewish homeland.  You know, besides having that history destroyed by people who wish to usurp not only the territory, but the history.   


And, btw, why do these camps exist?  There is not a single refugee camp in Israel.  ALL of the people of Israel have citizenship, equality under the law and the ability to practice their culture.  ALL of the Arabs.  And ALL of the nearly one million Jews who were stripped of their homes, properties, livelihoods and citizenship and ethnically cleansed from the surrounding ME countries.  Why do these camps exist?  They exist in "Palestine", in Gaza, in Jordan and in Lebanon.  They exist in the midst of a similar, or even identical, culture, where they should be welcomed.  And yet they are left in camps -- denied rights, freedoms, citizenship, the ability to work.  Its a terrible thing.  And deeply shameful, criminal, for the Arabs to treat their fellows this way.


----------



## Sixties Fan

*A Pattern: First destruction, then denial*

In 1996, acting without either permits or archaeological supervision, the Waqf brought in heavy machinery and began illegal construction. It did so while falsely claiming to be renovating a pre-existing mosque, one archaeologists deny ever existed.

Despite a court order to cease—which was met with Palestinian riots—unilateral construction by the Waqf continued with bulldozers and trucks being used to excavate and remove 6,000 tons of earth and dump it in the Kidron Valley. Subsequently, archaeologists claimed to have found Jewish artifacts among the rubble. The director of Israel's Antiquities Authority, Amir Drori, called the Waqf's act an “archeological crime.” Attorney General Elyakim Rubenstein referred to the purposeful destruction as “an assault on Jewish history.” One Temple Mount item—found dumped in the Valley—was recently deciphered, revealing it to be an ancient stamp seal from the 10th or 11th century BCE (“Tiny stone seal from King David era found in Temple Mount fill,” _Times of Israel_, Sept. 24, 2015).

(full article online)

CAMERA: Palestinian Groups Ahead of ISIS in Destroying Antiquities


----------



## Coyote

No one's history should be denied or their artifacts destroyed.  It is a deliberate attempt to erase a people...


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes, how they are handled matters. The problem in that area right now is that the right wing on both sides is using conflict to enhance their own positions.
> 
> What I meant by "it doesn't matter" is that the REALITY isn't important, it's the narrative that each side is producing that is important, that is what is pushing this whole thing, rather than the reality of whether this cultural site is "destroyed" or whatever. If the Palestinian people BELIEVE something has happened, or the Israeli people BELIEVE something has happened, then this is more important than whether it actually happened or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I actually hear what you are saying.  However, the Arabs (and not just the Palestinians) are using the actual destruction of history as evidence that the Jewish people don't have a history in that land.  They are creating a false reality, a false historical record, to erase the Jewish people.  Deliberately.  Intentionally.  This is VASTLY different than Israel being insensitive about a Muslim burial ground.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, both sides are creating a false narrative.
> 
> Israel is pushing conflict for a reason, and that reason is an excuse to push the boundaries of the state. Without conflict they could never get the support to do this.
> 
> There are different ways to try and do this, they're all bad, but this doesn't mean that Israel is any less guilty of trying to destroy culture in order to try and control the narrative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But Israel is NOT destroying culture to control the narrative.
Click to expand...


But Team Israel IS in the sense they are denying the Palestinians right to their own culture (referring to them as just Arabs) and narrative (Nakbah).  As Team Palestine is doing to the Jews - marginalize, minimalize, and erase.

 The destruction of artifacts though is beyond contempt.  Anothet reason why those places should be under Israeli control I think.  Their leadership has shown a willingness and ability to preserve and understand the history and archeology of the region.  It is irreplaceable.


----------



## Shusha

frigidweirdo said:


> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> "The Jewish people base their claim to the land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham; 2) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 3) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people and 4) the territory was captured in defensive wars."
> 
> Claims for the land of Israel/Palestine to be Jewish are stated here. 1) is that "God promised the land" to them. That's pretty far fetched from where I'm sitting to use your own religion as justification for kicking other people off the land.
> 
> 2) is probably the only one with any real substance here. That they have been a presence in the land, along with the Muslims, means that both should share the land, rather than trying to claim it all.



I'm going to try really hard to stay on topic here.  I think you are trying to drag it off course because you can't actually find any instances of Israel deliberately destroying Arab Palestinian culture and yet somehow want to demonize Israel anyway. 

First, be clear -- I reject the premise of #1, listed above. Religion, as important as it is to the people who practice it (including me), should never be the basis of political decisions.  I also reject #4.  The rights and claims of the Jewish people have nothing to do with the result of any conflict.  #3 is simply the international acknowledgement of the source of Jewish claim.  It is not the actual source. 

And here is where we come back to the topic.  The Jewish claim to the territory as a homeland for the Jewish people is based on their ancestral, historical, ethnic and religious indigeneity.  The Jewish people originated on that land, pre-conquest and pre-invasion.  Their history in that land goes back thousands of years.  It manifests in their language, their laws, their myths, the clothing they wear, the foods they eat, the holidays they celebrate.  The evidence is wide and deep and varied and there can be absolutely no question of the veracity of this. 

And yet the Arabs not only question the veracity of this -- they actively attempt to erase the history of the Jewish people.  *This strategy is employed, not to have the Arab narrative amplified, but to have the Jewish narrative SILENCED.*  Irrevocably.  If there is no evidence that the Jewish people's homeland is in this place, if there is only evidence of Arab occupation, then the Jewish people can be disappeared.  And its working.  UNESCO has erased the Jewish connection to places like Jerusalem's Old City and the Temple Mount and to Hevron.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> "The Jewish people base their claim to the land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham; 2) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 3) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people and 4) the territory was captured in defensive wars."
> 
> Claims for the land of Israel/Palestine to be Jewish are stated here. 1) is that "God promised the land" to them. That's pretty far fetched from where I'm sitting to use your own religion as justification for kicking other people off the land.
> 
> 2) is probably the only one with any real substance here. That they have been a presence in the land, along with the Muslims, means that both should share the land, rather than trying to claim it all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to try really hard to stay on topic here.  I think you are trying to drag it off course because you can't actually find any instances of Israel deliberately destroying Arab Palestinian culture and yet somehow want to demonize Israel anyway.
> 
> First, be clear -- I reject the premise of #1, listed above. Religion, as important as it is to the people who practice it (including me), should never be the basis of political decisions.  I also reject #4.  The rights and claims of the Jewish people have nothing to do with the result of any conflict.  #3 is simply the international acknowledgement of the source of Jewish claim.  It is not the actual source.
> 
> And here is where we come back to the topic.  The Jewish claim to the territory as a homeland for the Jewish people is based on their ancestral, historical, ethnic and religious indigeneity.  The Jewish people originated on that land, pre-conquest and pre-invasion.  Their history in that land goes back thousands of years.  It manifests in their language, their laws, their myths, the clothing they wear, the foods they eat, the holidays they celebrate.  The evidence is wide and deep and varied and there can be absolutely no question of the veracity of this.
> 
> And yet the Arabs not only question the veracity of this -- they actively attempt to erase the history of the Jewish people.  *This is a strategy is employed, not to have the Arab narrative amplified but to have the Jewish narrative SILENCED.*  Irrevocably.  If there is no evidence that the Jewish people's homeland is in this place, if there is only evidence of Arab occupation, then the Jewish people can be disappeared.  And its working.  UNESCO has erased the Jewish connection to places like Jerusalem's Old City and the Temple Mount and to Hevron.
Click to expand...


On you last paragraph....I certainly see that played out here in this forum as well.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> But Team Israel IS in the sense they are denying the Palestinians right to their own culture (referring to them as just Arabs) and narrative (Nakbah).  As Team Palestine is doing to the Jews - marginalize, minimalize, and erase.



I don't think there is an equivalence here in the larger context.  There is a very great deal of difference, as you point out below, between minimizing Arab Palestinian culture as a distinct culture (which we definitely do) and deliberately, physically, erasing a culture or usurping it entirely.  



> The destruction of artifacts though is beyond contempt.  Anothet reason why those places should be under Israeli control I think.  Their leadership has shown a willingness and ability to preserve and understand the history and archeology of the region.  It is irreplaceable.



We agree.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes, how they are handled matters. The problem in that area right now is that the right wing on both sides is using conflict to enhance their own positions.
> 
> What I meant by "it doesn't matter" is that the REALITY isn't important, it's the narrative that each side is producing that is important, that is what is pushing this whole thing, rather than the reality of whether this cultural site is "destroyed" or whatever. If the Palestinian people BELIEVE something has happened, or the Israeli people BELIEVE something has happened, then this is more important than whether it actually happened or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I actually hear what you are saying.  However, the Arabs (and not just the Palestinians) are using the actual destruction of history as evidence that the Jewish people don't have a history in that land.  They are creating a false reality, a false historical record, to erase the Jewish people.  Deliberately.  Intentionally.  This is VASTLY different than Israel being insensitive about a Muslim burial ground.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, both sides are creating a false narrative.
> 
> Israel is pushing conflict for a reason, and that reason is an excuse to push the boundaries of the state. Without conflict they could never get the support to do this.
> 
> There are different ways to try and do this, they're all bad, but this doesn't mean that Israel is any less guilty of trying to destroy culture in order to try and control the narrative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But Israel is NOT destroying culture to control the narrative.
Click to expand...


Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative.  That means they can define who is and who isn't a people or that events like Nakbah are fictional.  They are not destroying or altering artifacts however. And thst is a difference.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> On you last paragraph....I certainly see that played out here in this forum as well.



Sure.  It crops up in a lot of arguments -- there is no proof that the Temple really existed, the Hebrew language is dead, the were hardly any Jews here, the Jews were destroyed long ago, there are very few "real" Jews left, Zionists are not Jews, Jews are Europeans, Judaism is just a religion, JC was a Palestinian, etc, etc, etc.  

This is why I say that there is no equivalence between the two arguments.  Yes, it is not cool that some on Team Israel are in denial about the existence of a distinct Palestinian culture and use it to deny them rights, but its not the same in scope.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative.  That means they can define who is and who isn't a people or that events like Nakbah are fictional.  They are not destroying or altering artifacts however. And thst is a difference.



Seriously?  No one denies that the Nakba happened.  They challenge the narrative, but no one denies it happened.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative.  That means they can define who is and who isn't a people ...



I disagree.  The Palestinians have done an excellent job of controlling the narrative.  And Israel does not define who is or who isn't a people.  Israel hasn't rejected the Arab Palestinians as a distinct people for decades.  Every since they, you know, actually became a distinct people.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> "The Jewish people base their claim to the land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham; 2) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 3) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people and 4) the territory was captured in defensive wars."
> 
> Claims for the land of Israel/Palestine to be Jewish are stated here. 1) is that "God promised the land" to them. That's pretty far fetched from where I'm sitting to use your own religion as justification for kicking other people off the land.
> 
> 2) is probably the only one with any real substance here. That they have been a presence in the land, along with the Muslims, means that both should share the land, rather than trying to claim it all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to try really hard to stay on topic here.  I think you are trying to drag it off course because you can't actually find any instances of Israel deliberately destroying Arab Palestinian culture and yet somehow want to demonize Israel anyway.
> 
> First, be clear -- I reject the premise of #1, listed above. Religion, as important as it is to the people who practice it (including me), should never be the basis of political decisions.  I also reject #4.  The rights and claims of the Jewish people have nothing to do with the result of any conflict.  #3 is simply the international acknowledgement of the source of Jewish claim.  It is not the actual source.
> 
> And here is where we come back to the topic.  The Jewish claim to the territory as a homeland for the Jewish people is based on their ancestral, historical, ethnic and religious indigeneity.  The Jewish people originated on that land, pre-conquest and pre-invasion.  Their history in that land goes back thousands of years.  It manifests in their language, their laws, their myths, the clothing they wear, the foods they eat, the holidays they celebrate.  The evidence is wide and deep and varied and there can be absolutely no question of the veracity of this.
> 
> And yet the Arabs not only question the veracity of this -- they actively attempt to erase the history of the Jewish people.  *This is a strategy is employed, not to have the Arab narrative amplified but to have the Jewish narrative SILENCED.*  Irrevocably.  If there is no evidence that the Jewish people's homeland is in this place, if there is only evidence of Arab occupation, then the Jewish people can be disappeared.  And its working.  UNESCO has erased the Jewish connection to places like Jerusalem's Old City and the Temple Mount and to Hevron.
Click to expand...




Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes, how they are handled matters. The problem in that area right now is that the right wing on both sides is using conflict to enhance their own positions.
> 
> What I meant by "it doesn't matter" is that the REALITY isn't important, it's the narrative that each side is producing that is important, that is what is pushing this whole thing, rather than the reality of whether this cultural site is "destroyed" or whatever. If the Palestinian people BELIEVE something has happened, or the Israeli people BELIEVE something has happened, then this is more important than whether it actually happened or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I actually hear what you are saying.  However, the Arabs (and not just the Palestinians) are using the actual destruction of history as evidence that the Jewish people don't have a history in that land.  They are creating a false reality, a false historical record, to erase the Jewish people.  Deliberately.  Intentionally.  This is VASTLY different than Israel being insensitive about a Muslim burial ground.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, both sides are creating a false narrative.
> 
> Israel is pushing conflict for a reason, and that reason is an excuse to push the boundaries of the state. Without conflict they could never get the support to do this.
> 
> There are different ways to try and do this, they're all bad, but this doesn't mean that Israel is any less guilty of trying to destroy culture in order to try and control the narrative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But Israel is NOT destroying culture to control the narrative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But Team Israel IS in the sense they are denying the Palestinians right to their own culture (referring to them as just Arabs) and narrative (Nakbah).  As Team Palestine is doing to the Jews - marginalize, minimalize, and erase.
> 
> The destruction of artifacts though is beyond contempt.  Anothet reason why those places should be under Israeli control I think.  Their leadership has shown a willingness and ability to preserve and understand the history and archeology of the region.  It is irreplaceable.
Click to expand...

Could you point out the difference between the Palestinian culture and the Egyptian one?  Or the Saudi one?

Nakbah is the Arab cry for not having destroyed Israel in 1948 and ending up not being able to return to the land where Israel sits because the Arabs Leaders told them to leave.

The Catastrophe (Nakbah) was the Arabs listening to their Arab leaders to begin with.

"It will only take two weeks to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews" was the saying they heard.

The Arab leaders failed, lost their attacks, war on Israel and most Arabs (as they believe in the destruction of Israel and the Jews) have not been allowed to return as they would be a fifth column.  Just like the many Arabs who do live in Israel and are even in the Knesset and do everything they can to erase the History of the country.

There is absolutely nothing to marginalize, minimalize, and erase about Palestinian history.  It starts in 1964 when Arafat with the KGB formulated that identity for the Arabs in Gaza and Judea and Samaria.

The Arabs themselves are proud to say that they saw themselves as part of greater Syria and wanted to be part of Syria.  They were not fighting for a region or country named Palestine.

Therefore, "Team Israel" has truly never denied the Arabs rights to live on the land, or even to partition the land and have them have their own Arab State after another Arab clan took 78% of the Jewish homeland for themselves and do not allow Jews to live on it again since 1925.

Team Israel has even offered 98% of its most ancient land with the eastern part of Jerusalem as their capital.

"Team Palestine" needs to put the Arab leaders to answer the why they have rejected two partitions and many peace offerings, and especially why they have gone to UNESCO to turn all Jewish Holy Sites into Muslim ones.

Is Jerusalem Muslim?
The Arabs want the world to accept Jerusalem as a Muslim holy site only.

Where has Israel ever tried to negate the rights of the Arabs who lived on the land for centuries, or even a few decades,  to any part of the mandate for Palestine to be turned into their own State?

Has Israel denied the Muslims their holy sites or access to them?

What happens to Jews who want to visit the Temple Mount, the Cave or the Tombs? Or any other Jewish Holy site?

Do we understand the difference?

Is there really a difference in culture between a Palestinian one and all other Arab clans or countries?

What is the difference?


----------



## Shusha

frigidweirdo said:


> So, if it's a Jewish country, what about the Muslims who have lived in the region their whole life?
> 
> If they're trying to make it a Jewish country, what happens to Muslim or any other culture?
> 
> When Israel was granted the land by countries from nowhere near Israel, they displaced lots of people, took over and imposed their own culture on the land. To me that's a destruction of culture. It'd be impossible to do what Israel has done without that.



Sure.  But you conveniently forget the other half of this equation.

What happened to the Jewish people who had lived in the region, not only their whole lives, but for thousands of years?  When the various peoples right up to and including the Arab Muslims invaded and conquered the region what happened to the Jewish culture?  An entirely foreign and separate culture was imposed on the Jewish people (over and over again).  That is the destruction of a culture. 

You seem to somehow want to argue that the Jewish people shouldn't be doing it to the Arabs in the region, without recognizing that it has ALREADY BEEN DONE to the Jewish people.

So what do we do with that?


----------



## Sixties Fan

At Camp David last July, Barak naively told Arafat that he was ready to give him control of most of Temple Mount, one way or another.

But he said that Palestinians must recognize the Jewish right to the lower part of the Mount, which includes the Western Wall and what is believed to be the hidden remains of the Second Temple.

Arafat immediately said no, insisting it all belongs to the Muslims, and that there never was a Temple Mount.

But the cultural destruction had already begun.

(full article online)

https://nypost.com/2001/04/22/temple-mount-artifacts-looted/


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Could you point out the difference between the Palestinian culture and the Egyptian one?



Interesting that you should mention the Egyptian culture.  The indigenous Egyptian culture, though we have much documented about it, has been entirely lost.  The language, the religion, the system of laws, their holidays and celebrations, the games they played, their clothing styles, most of their myths and legends.  Lost.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative.  That means they can define who is and who isn't a people or that events like Nakbah are fictional.  They are not destroying or altering artifacts however. And thst is a difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  No one denies that the Nakba happened.  They challenge the narrative, but no one denies it happened.
Click to expand...


Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.

1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative.  That means they can define who is and who isn't a people or that events like Nakbah are fictional.  They are not destroying or altering artifacts however. And thst is a difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  No one denies that the Nakba happened.  They challenge the narrative, but no one denies it happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.
> 
> 1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks
Click to expand...

Is there a lack of understanding here that the Arab Leaders chose to declare war on newly independent Israel and they lost the game they played? The one where they told the population to leave and return in two weeks when the Arabs would have won their assault on Israel and destroyed the new country and killed all the Jews?

Can one understand that if the Arab leaders had not told the Arab population in the south to leave, that they would still be living there today, just as all the Arab villages and other Arabs who remained in Israel in the northern part of the country?


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> "The Jewish people base their claim to the land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham; 2) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 3) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people and 4) the territory was captured in defensive wars."
> 
> Claims for the land of Israel/Palestine to be Jewish are stated here. 1) is that "God promised the land" to them. That's pretty far fetched from where I'm sitting to use your own religion as justification for kicking other people off the land.
> 
> 2) is probably the only one with any real substance here. That they have been a presence in the land, along with the Muslims, means that both should share the land, rather than trying to claim it all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to try really hard to stay on topic here.  I think you are trying to drag it off course because you can't actually find any instances of Israel deliberately destroying Arab Palestinian culture and yet somehow want to demonize Israel anyway.
> 
> First, be clear -- I reject the premise of #1, listed above. Religion, as important as it is to the people who practice it (including me), should never be the basis of political decisions.  I also reject #4.  The rights and claims of the Jewish people have nothing to do with the result of any conflict.  #3 is simply the international acknowledgement of the source of Jewish claim.  It is not the actual source.
> 
> And here is where we come back to the topic.  The Jewish claim to the territory as a homeland for the Jewish people is based on their ancestral, historical, ethnic and religious indigeneity.  The Jewish people originated on that land, pre-conquest and pre-invasion.  Their history in that land goes back thousands of years.  It manifests in their language, their laws, their myths, the clothing they wear, the foods they eat, the holidays they celebrate.  The evidence is wide and deep and varied and there can be absolutely no question of the veracity of this.
> 
> And yet the Arabs not only question the veracity of this -- they actively attempt to erase the history of the Jewish people.  *This is a strategy is employed, not to have the Arab narrative amplified but to have the Jewish narrative SILENCED.*  Irrevocably.  If there is no evidence that the Jewish people's homeland is in this place, if there is only evidence of Arab occupation, then the Jewish people can be disappeared.  And its working.  UNESCO has erased the Jewish connection to places like Jerusalem's Old City and the Temple Mount and to Hevron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes, how they are handled matters. The problem in that area right now is that the right wing on both sides is using conflict to enhance their own positions.
> 
> What I meant by "it doesn't matter" is that the REALITY isn't important, it's the narrative that each side is producing that is important, that is what is pushing this whole thing, rather than the reality of whether this cultural site is "destroyed" or whatever. If the Palestinian people BELIEVE something has happened, or the Israeli people BELIEVE something has happened, then this is more important than whether it actually happened or not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I actually hear what you are saying.  However, the Arabs (and not just the Palestinians) are using the actual destruction of history as evidence that the Jewish people don't have a history in that land.  They are creating a false reality, a false historical record, to erase the Jewish people.  Deliberately.  Intentionally.  This is VASTLY different than Israel being insensitive about a Muslim burial ground.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, both sides are creating a false narrative.
> 
> Israel is pushing conflict for a reason, and that reason is an excuse to push the boundaries of the state. Without conflict they could never get the support to do this.
> 
> There are different ways to try and do this, they're all bad, but this doesn't mean that Israel is any less guilty of trying to destroy culture in order to try and control the narrative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But Israel is NOT destroying culture to control the narrative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But Team Israel IS in the sense they are denying the Palestinians right to their own culture (referring to them as just Arabs) and narrative (Nakbah).  As Team Palestine is doing to the Jews - marginalize, minimalize, and erase.
> 
> The destruction of artifacts though is beyond contempt.  Anothet reason why those places should be under Israeli control I think.  Their leadership has shown a willingness and ability to preserve and understand the history and archeology of the region.  It is irreplaceable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Could you point out the difference between the Palestinian culture and the Egyptian one?  Or the Saudi one?
> 
> Nakbah is the Arab cry for not having destroyed Israel in 1948 and ending up not being able to return to the land where Israel sits because the Arabs Leaders told them to leave.
> 
> The Catastrophe (Nakbah) was the Arabs listening to their Arab leaders to begin with.
> 
> "It will only take two weeks to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews" was the saying they heard.
> 
> The Arab leaders failed, lost their attacks, war on Israel and most Arabs (as they believe in the destruction of Israel and the Jews) have not been allowed to return as they would be a fifth column.  Just like the many Arabs who do live in Israel and are even in the Knesset and do everything they can to erase the History of the country.
> 
> There is absolutely nothing to marginalize, minimalize, and erase about Palestinian history.  It starts in 1964 when Arafat with the KGB formulated that identity for the Arabs in Gaza and Judea and Samaria.
> 
> The Arabs themselves are proud to say that they saw themselves as part of greater Syria and wanted to be part of Syria.  They were not fighting for a region or country named Palestine.
> 
> Therefore, "Team Israel" has truly never denied the Arabs rights to live on the land, or even to partition the land and have them have their own Arab State after another Arab clan took 78% of the Jewish homeland for themselves and do not allow Jews to live on it again since 1925.
> 
> Team Israel has even offered 98% of its most ancient land with the eastern part of Jerusalem as their capital.
> 
> "Team Palestine" needs to put the Arab leaders to answer the why they have rejected two partitions and many peace offerings, and especially why they have gone to UNESCO to turn all Jewish Holy Sites into Muslim ones.
> 
> Is Jerusalem Muslim?
> The Arabs want the world to accept Jerusalem as a Muslim holy site only.
> 
> Where has Israel ever tried to negate the rights of the Arabs who lived on the land for centuries, or even a few decades,  to any part of the mandate for Palestine to be turned into their own State?
> 
> Has Israel denied the Muslims their holy sites or access to them?
> 
> What happens to Jews who want to visit the Temple Mount, the Cave or the Tombs? Or any other Jewish Holy site?
> 
> Do we understand the difference?
> 
> Is there really a difference in culture between a Palestinian one and all other Arab clans or countries?
> 
> What is the difference?
Click to expand...

*And right here is an example of the denial Shusha says does not exist. * The Palestinians arent a real people and Nakba is no big deal.  You are far more eloquent in your wording and divert onto other issues,* but it is there none the less.

*


----------



## abi

Coyote said:


> Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.
> 
> 1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks


And of everything that the zionists do to demonize Israel, this is some of the most heinous.


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative.  That means they can define who is and who isn't a people or that events like Nakbah are fictional.  They are not destroying or altering artifacts however. And thst is a difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  No one denies that the Nakba happened.  They challenge the narrative, but no one denies it happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.
> 
> 1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there a lack of understanding here that the Arab Leaders chose to declare war on newly independent Israel and they lost the game they played? *The one where they told the population to leave and return in two weeks when the Arabs would have won *their assault on Israel and destroyed the new country and killed all the Jews?
> 
> Can one understand that if the Arab leaders had not told the Arab population in the south to leave, that they would still be living there today, just as all the Arab villages and other Arabs who remained in Israel in the northern part of the country?
Click to expand...


According to the historical records that is a false narrative that is repeated so often it becomes part of the established history.  Most fled due to fear of conflict.  A number were expelled by Jewish militias.  Some were told to flee by Arab leaders but there is little evidence to indicate that was a major factor compared to the other 2 reasons.


----------



## admonit

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative.  That means they can define who is and who isn't a people or that events like Nakbah are fictional.  They are not destroying or altering artifacts however. And thst is a difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  No one denies that the Nakba happened.  They challenge the narrative, but no one denies it happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.
> 
> 1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks
Click to expand...

Why Israeli textbooks should include the term, that describes the creation of Israel in 1948 as a "catastrophe"?


----------



## Coyote

admonit said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative.  That means they can define who is and who isn't a people or that events like Nakbah are fictional.  They are not destroying or altering artifacts however. And thst is a difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  No one denies that the Nakba happened.  They challenge the narrative, but no one denies it happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.
> 
> 1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why Israeli textbooks should include the term, that describes the creation of Israel in 1948 as a "catastrophe"?
Click to expand...

Why should Germany put the Holocaust in their textbooks?   And no I am not trying to make a moral equivalency.

This is trying to erase Nakbah.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Coyote said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative.  That means they can define who is and who isn't a people or that events like Nakbah are fictional.  They are not destroying or altering artifacts however. And thst is a difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  No one denies that the Nakba happened.  They challenge the narrative, but no one denies it happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.
> 
> 1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why Israeli textbooks should include the term, that describes the creation of Israel in 1948 as a "catastrophe"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why should Germany put the Holocaust in their textbooks?   And no I am not trying to make a moral equivalency.
> 
> This is trying to erase Nakbah.
Click to expand...



It's insulting to Israel to call its creation and independence a "catastrophe."


----------



## abi

ForeverYoung436 said:


> It's insulting to Israel to call its creation and independence a "catastrophe."


Funny.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> "The Jewish people base their claim to the land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham; 2) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 3) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people and 4) the territory was captured in defensive wars."
> 
> Claims for the land of Israel/Palestine to be Jewish are stated here. 1) is that "God promised the land" to them. That's pretty far fetched from where I'm sitting to use your own religion as justification for kicking other people off the land.
> 
> 2) is probably the only one with any real substance here. That they have been a presence in the land, along with the Muslims, means that both should share the land, rather than trying to claim it all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to try really hard to stay on topic here.  I think you are trying to drag it off course because you can't actually find any instances of Israel deliberately destroying Arab Palestinian culture and yet somehow want to demonize Israel anyway.
> 
> First, be clear -- I reject the premise of #1, listed above. Religion, as important as it is to the people who practice it (including me), should never be the basis of political decisions.  I also reject #4.  The rights and claims of the Jewish people have nothing to do with the result of any conflict.  #3 is simply the international acknowledgement of the source of Jewish claim.  It is not the actual source.
> 
> And here is where we come back to the topic.  The Jewish claim to the territory as a homeland for the Jewish people is based on their ancestral, historical, ethnic and religious indigeneity.  The Jewish people originated on that land, pre-conquest and pre-invasion.  Their history in that land goes back thousands of years.  It manifests in their language, their laws, their myths, the clothing they wear, the foods they eat, the holidays they celebrate.  The evidence is wide and deep and varied and there can be absolutely no question of the veracity of this.
> 
> And yet the Arabs not only question the veracity of this -- they actively attempt to erase the history of the Jewish people.  *This is a strategy is employed, not to have the Arab narrative amplified but to have the Jewish narrative SILENCED.*  Irrevocably.  If there is no evidence that the Jewish people's homeland is in this place, if there is only evidence of Arab occupation, then the Jewish people can be disappeared.  And its working.  UNESCO has erased the Jewish connection to places like Jerusalem's Old City and the Temple Mount and to Hevron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I actually hear what you are saying.  However, the Arabs (and not just the Palestinians) are using the actual destruction of history as evidence that the Jewish people don't have a history in that land.  They are creating a false reality, a false historical record, to erase the Jewish people.  Deliberately.  Intentionally.  This is VASTLY different than Israel being insensitive about a Muslim burial ground.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, both sides are creating a false narrative.
> 
> Israel is pushing conflict for a reason, and that reason is an excuse to push the boundaries of the state. Without conflict they could never get the support to do this.
> 
> There are different ways to try and do this, they're all bad, but this doesn't mean that Israel is any less guilty of trying to destroy culture in order to try and control the narrative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But Israel is NOT destroying culture to control the narrative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But Team Israel IS in the sense they are denying the Palestinians right to their own culture (referring to them as just Arabs) and narrative (Nakbah).  As Team Palestine is doing to the Jews - marginalize, minimalize, and erase.
> 
> The destruction of artifacts though is beyond contempt.  Anothet reason why those places should be under Israeli control I think.  Their leadership has shown a willingness and ability to preserve and understand the history and archeology of the region.  It is irreplaceable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Could you point out the difference between the Palestinian culture and the Egyptian one?  Or the Saudi one?
> 
> Nakbah is the Arab cry for not having destroyed Israel in 1948 and ending up not being able to return to the land where Israel sits because the Arabs Leaders told them to leave.
> 
> The Catastrophe (Nakbah) was the Arabs listening to their Arab leaders to begin with.
> 
> "It will only take two weeks to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews" was the saying they heard.
> 
> The Arab leaders failed, lost their attacks, war on Israel and most Arabs (as they believe in the destruction of Israel and the Jews) have not been allowed to return as they would be a fifth column.  Just like the many Arabs who do live in Israel and are even in the Knesset and do everything they can to erase the History of the country.
> 
> There is absolutely nothing to marginalize, minimalize, and erase about Palestinian history.  It starts in 1964 when Arafat with the KGB formulated that identity for the Arabs in Gaza and Judea and Samaria.
> 
> The Arabs themselves are proud to say that they saw themselves as part of greater Syria and wanted to be part of Syria.  They were not fighting for a region or country named Palestine.
> 
> Therefore, "Team Israel" has truly never denied the Arabs rights to live on the land, or even to partition the land and have them have their own Arab State after another Arab clan took 78% of the Jewish homeland for themselves and do not allow Jews to live on it again since 1925.
> 
> Team Israel has even offered 98% of its most ancient land with the eastern part of Jerusalem as their capital.
> 
> "Team Palestine" needs to put the Arab leaders to answer the why they have rejected two partitions and many peace offerings, and especially why they have gone to UNESCO to turn all Jewish Holy Sites into Muslim ones.
> 
> Is Jerusalem Muslim?
> The Arabs want the world to accept Jerusalem as a Muslim holy site only.
> 
> Where has Israel ever tried to negate the rights of the Arabs who lived on the land for centuries, or even a few decades,  to any part of the mandate for Palestine to be turned into their own State?
> 
> Has Israel denied the Muslims their holy sites or access to them?
> 
> What happens to Jews who want to visit the Temple Mount, the Cave or the Tombs? Or any other Jewish Holy site?
> 
> Do we understand the difference?
> 
> Is there really a difference in culture between a Palestinian one and all other Arab clans or countries?
> 
> What is the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And right here is an example of the. Denial Shusha says does not exist.  The Palestinians arent a real people and Nakba is no big deal.  You are far more eloquent in your wording and divert onto other issues, but it is there none the less.
Click to expand...

I will say it one more time.

You, Coyote, for whichever reason, is unable to understand what actually happened in 1948 after Israel declared Independence.
You do not seem to know or understand all the pieces which were going on at the same time, all the Arab leaders, the Arab League and the decisions they made for the whole Arab population i
n Israel, Gaza , Judea and Samaria.

Until you grasp an understanding of the facts of history, and not narratives from one side or another, I do not see that you or any other well meaning person as you are can evolve beyond what a group of people who have endlessly said and written that they wish to see Israel destroyed and all Jews killed are and always have been about since 1920.

I do not divert anything.  I have been giving you HISTORY, which is the most important thing to any people.

Without history, without facts, anyone can come and take anyone's identity away.

No different than someone suddenly getting a hold of title to your house or car, the real thing or a false one......and what happens then?
How long before one loses one house or car by those who wanted it?

The Palestinians are a people who DID NOT consider themselves Palestinians before Arafat came up with the idea with the KGB in 1964.   That is a fact which No One can change.

I have said it very clearly, the Arabs who were living on the land until 1948 were more than welcome to work on their own State as there had been a partition proposal since 1937 and the Jews accepted that.

I have no way of knowing what sources you read, or listen to.......and I cannot change your mind with historical facts you are unable to see.

There are 1.2 Million Arab Muslims and Christians in Israel. Many are citizens.  Many are applying to become citizens. They have jobs, health care, representation in the Knesset, etc, etc.

And does not even include all the Arabs who live in Areas A and B who come to work, study and for health care.

The same used to be true about the Arabs in Gaza until about 2000.
They still get weekly health from Israel and get to come into Israel for health issues, including the Leaders.

Contrast that with how many Jews work, study or get any health care in Gaza or Areas A and B.

There was a Nakba?  Yes, there was.  One of the Arab leaders making.  The Palestinians will say so themselves.  There are videos of some villagers filmed by Iranian TV on how they were told to leave by their leaders.  Or by the Jordanian soldiers.

The Nakba is a catastrophe brought by the leaders on the Arabs who were made to flee in order to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel. 
That is a fact no one can change.
The catastrophe was 5 Arab Armies losing to a much small number of Jews who had to fight for their survival.

And let me bring a historical fact you may forget.

This is ONLY three years after the discovery of what Germany had done to the Jews of Europe.

And it is about Seven years after the Palestinian Arab Leader Husseini 
went to Iraq and incited the Arab population there to riot against the Jews there.  Nearly 2000 dead, many thousands more injured.

THAT is the mentality going on with the Arab leaders, one of them Husseini himself.


INTENT is very much what determines how history is to look at an event, and NOT the narrative of one side or another.

The INTENT of the Arabs was to kill all Jews.

Had they succeeded, are you still reading this, how much of a shrug would it have gotten as the massacre in Iraq did.  Or what kept happening during WWII which was endlessly shrugged and ignored until the concentration camps were opened?

I want you to think, Coyote.  As long as it takes you to do it.  Research and all.    I know you can.

History matters.  Period.

Patterns matter.  1300 years of Muslim on Jews pattern does matter.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative.  That means they can define who is and who isn't a people or that events like Nakbah are fictional.  They are not destroying or altering artifacts however. And thst is a difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  No one denies that the Nakba happened.  They challenge the narrative, but no one denies it happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.
> 
> 1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks
Click to expand...


Just like I said.  No one denies it happened.  They just challenge the narrative.  The Israeli government is exactly right in not promoting the creation of the State as a "catastrophe" within that State.  It promotes hostility.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative.  That means they can define who is and who isn't a people or that events like Nakbah are fictional.  They are not destroying or altering artifacts however. And thst is a difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  No one denies that the Nakba happened.  They challenge the narrative, but no one denies it happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.
> 
> 1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there a lack of understanding here that the Arab Leaders chose to declare war on newly independent Israel and they lost the game they played? *The one where they told the population to leave and return in two weeks when the Arabs would have won *their assault on Israel and destroyed the new country and killed all the Jews?
> 
> Can one understand that if the Arab leaders had not told the Arab population in the south to leave, that they would still be living there today, just as all the Arab villages and other Arabs who remained in Israel in the northern part of the country?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> According to the historical records that is a false narrative that is repeated so often it becomes part of the established history.  Most fled due to fear of conflict.  A number were expelled by Jewish militias.  Some were told to flee by Arab leaders but there is little evidence to indicate that was a major factor compared to the other 2 reasons.
Click to expand...

You do not seem to have the smallest idea of what war is.

When ISIS attacked the Yazidis did they just stay or many got to flee to the Kurdish area?
What happened to the ones who were caught?

During WWII did Jews mostly stay where they were or try to flee?
We do know what happened to those who stayed.

So, by your reasoning, the Arab population had no reason to be afraid of the Jews, especially as they were told via radio by their leaders they should flee.

Sure some of them fled because the Israel in some cases told some tall stories to make the Arabs afraid and flee.
Would it have been better if Israel had not done so and imprisoned or killed all of those people?

Why would the Arabs agree to leave in the south, when they did not in the northern part of Israel?

Those who were expelled by Israel, it is mainly because they had weapons, they were shooting at Jews, attacking Jews, and like any other enemy, one tries to defeat them.

I will ask again.
Should Israel have shot all of them or imprisoned them, instead of expelling those who had in mind to kill Jews?

Logic please !!!


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative.  That means they can define who is and who isn't a people or that events like Nakbah are fictional.  They are not destroying or altering artifacts however. And thst is a difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  No one denies that the Nakba happened.  They challenge the narrative, but no one denies it happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.
> 
> 1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why Israeli textbooks should include the term, that describes the creation of Israel in 1948 as a "catastrophe"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why should Germany put the Holocaust in their textbooks?   And no I am not trying to make a moral equivalency.
> 
> This is trying to erase Nakbah.
Click to expand...

You are clearly not aware of what you have written.

Think about it.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> *And right here is an example of the denial Shusha says does not exist. * The Palestinians arent a real people and Nakba is no big deal.  You are far more eloquent in your wording and divert onto other issues,* but it is there none the less.
> *



Are we reading the same post?  He said neither of these things.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Why should Germany put the Holocaust in their textbooks?   And no I am not trying to make a moral equivalency.
> 
> This is trying to erase Nakbah.



The posted article DOES try to make a false moral equivalency between the Shoah and the Nakba.

But no one is erasing the Nakba.  Everyone acknowledges that the events happened.

What IS being done is challenging the narrative.  The term has grown to encompass an entire narrative which is lacking any sort of proper contextualization.


----------



## abi

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why should Germany put the Holocaust in their textbooks?   And no I am not trying to make a moral equivalency.
> 
> This is trying to erase Nakbah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The posted article DOES try to make a false moral equivalency between the Shoah and the Nakba.
> 
> But no one is erasing the Nakba.  Everyone acknowledges that the events happened.
> 
> What IS being done is challenging the narrative.  The term has grown to encompass an entire narrative which is lacking any sort of proper contextualization.
Click to expand...

Why should Germany put the Holocaust in their textbooks?


----------



## Shusha

abi said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why should Germany put the Holocaust in their textbooks?   And no I am not trying to make a moral equivalency.
> 
> This is trying to erase Nakbah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The posted article DOES try to make a false moral equivalency between the Shoah and the Nakba.
> 
> But no one is erasing the Nakba.  Everyone acknowledges that the events happened.
> 
> What IS being done is challenging the narrative.  The term has grown to encompass an entire narrative which is lacking any sort of proper contextualization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why should Germany put the Holocaust in their textbooks?
Click to expand...


Do you think I am arguing that the Nakba shouldn't be in textbooks in Israel?  Of course it should be.  It is correct that the word be removed, though, as it has taken on significant meaning without context.


----------



## Coyote

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative.  That means they can define who is and who isn't a people or that events like Nakbah are fictional.  They are not destroying or altering artifacts however. And thst is a difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  No one denies that the Nakba happened.  They challenge the narrative, but no one denies it happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.
> 
> 1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why Israeli textbooks should include the term, that describes the creation of Israel in 1948 as a "catastrophe"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why should Germany put the Holocaust in their textbooks?   And no I am not trying to make a moral equivalency.
> 
> This is trying to erase Nakbah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's insulting to Israel to call its creation and independence a "catastrophe."
Click to expand...


Well to the Palestinians it WAS a catastrophe and it's insulting to pretend otherwise.  In a really ironic way it represents to THEM what the exodus represented to the Jews thousands of years ago.  And I suspect the history back then was just as complicated as the history today. 

Refusing to acknowledge it in any way doesn't erase it but trying to excise it is an attempt to erase a particular people's history.

In the article, it notes this about legislation against commemorating Na ba:  _An initial version proposed by the far-right foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman would have banned all Nakba commemorations and carried sentences of up to three years in prison_.


----------



## Coyote

abi said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why should Germany put the Holocaust in their textbooks?   And no I am not trying to make a moral equivalency.
> 
> This is trying to erase Nakbah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The posted article DOES try to make a false moral equivalency between the Shoah and the Nakba.
> 
> But no one is erasing the Nakba.  Everyone acknowledges that the events happened.
> 
> What IS being done is challenging the narrative.  The term has grown to encompass an entire narrative which is lacking any sort of proper contextualization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why should Germany put the Holocaust in their textbooks?
Click to expand...


Because it is an integral part of their history.


----------



## abi

Coyote said:


> Because it is an integral part of their history.


I know; I was asking Shusha.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> *And right here is an example of the denial Shusha says does not exist. * The Palestinians arent a real people and Nakba is no big deal.  You are far more eloquent in your wording and divert onto other issues,* but it is there none the less.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are we reading the same post?  He said neither of these things.
> 
> Further, he confirms that Israel has ALWAYS been willing for the Arabs to have sovereignty and rights in that land.
Click to expand...




Coyote said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  No one denies that the Nakba happened.  They challenge the narrative, but no one denies it happened.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.
> 
> 1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why Israeli textbooks should include the term, that describes the creation of Israel in 1948 as a "catastrophe"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why should Germany put the Holocaust in their textbooks?   And no I am not trying to make a moral equivalency.
> 
> This is trying to erase Nakbah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's insulting to Israel to call its creation and independence a "catastrophe."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well to the Palestinians it WAS a catastrophe and it's insulting to pretend otherwise.  In a really ironic way it represents to THEM what the exodus represented to the Jews thousands of years ago.  And I suspect the history back then was just as complicated as the history today.
> 
> Refusing to acknowledge it in any way doesn't erase it but trying to excise it is an attempt to erase a particular people's history.
> 
> In the article, it notes this about legislation against commemorating Na ba:  _An initial version proposed by the far-right foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman would have banned all Nakba commemorations and carried sentences of up to three years in prison_.
Click to expand...

There are two sides to any war.

The ones who win.
The ones who lose.

Israel survived the onslaught of 5 Arab Armies against it population the day after it declared Independence.

Israel lost 6000 lives, many more wounded, all of Judea and Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem were cleansed of all Jews.

This is the Israeli Nakba, the catastrophe Israel never asked for, having offered endlessly to share the land with the Arab of the land.

The Arabs attacked.  The Arabs lost.

Germany attacked in WWI and II.  It lost.

Ottomans attacked with Germany.  They lost.

They knew how to lose.  They accepted it.

The Arabs, being Muslims, and having lost to Islam's hated Jews, to this day cannot accept that they lost.

Many of the Arab countries have made peace or have learned to live with Israel and the real history of what happened, especially the fact that 5 Arab armies lost the war they started in 1948.

Time for the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians to make their leaders in Gaza and Judea and Samaria, accept the fact that they have lost each and every time and there is not turning back, as there was no turning back for the Germans, Ottomans, Japanese, or any other country or group of people, which has declared war on others 
and then lost.

One cannot keep millions of a group as refugees forever, hoping that one day they will achieve what that war was about.  In this case:
The destruction of Israel and the doing away with all Jews, one way or another, just as it was done during WWII.

And by all means....PLLEAESE..........

Never, ever, equate the Arabs being expelled because of a war they started with the Israel and the Jews, and the Hebrew Exodus from Egypt more than 3000 years ago.

Or with the Inquisition, or the Holocaust or any other distinctly Jewish
tragedy, or liberation.

The Jewish Exodus from Egypt was Never a tragedy, a catastrophe for the Hebrews.

It was the freedom they had been looking for after decades or centuries of being enslaved by the Egyptians.

The Hebrews were not expelled from Egypt.  It was not their homeland or their home. They escaped and became again a free people who ended up returning to the land they came from and creating a Nation out of it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why should Germany put the Holocaust in their textbooks?   And no I am not trying to make a moral equivalency.
> 
> This is trying to erase Nakbah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The posted article DOES try to make a false moral equivalency between the Shoah and the Nakba.
> 
> But no one is erasing the Nakba.  Everyone acknowledges that the events happened.
> 
> What IS being done is challenging the narrative.  The term has grown to encompass an entire narrative which is lacking any sort of proper contextualization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why should Germany put the Holocaust in their textbooks?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because it is an integral part of their history.
Click to expand...

It is actually an integral part of their religion.  Islam.

Islam cannot accept losing any land it once conquered.  That is a fact.
And losing in 1948 to their dhiimmi Jews........the worst dishonor that Muslims and Arabs can face.

It is about lost face, about lost honor, it is about having lost to the Jews.

And as long as the Jews have Israel, and they have not totally destroyed that country by any means possibly, they will continue to attempt to take any part of Israel, piece by piece.

It is all in the Quran, or the Battle stories of how Muhammad defeated the Jewish tribes of Arabia.

That is what the Arab cry about one of those tribes is all about.
"Remember Khybar"

Muslims have been shouting that outside and inside Israel for a long time.   And Alahu Akbar every time they attack a soldier or a civilian.

It has nothing to do with the refugee rights, which should have ended at the same time all other refugee rights do.

War is war.
One loses, one wins.

Muslim history does not accept defeat by the Jews or any other infidels.  And that is why they continue to fight Israel instead of using all the money given to them to build a country or two.

The Hashemites did it.
That is what needs to happen with Gaza and Areas A and B.

Enough of destroying Jewish history simply because Islam considers Jews to be inferior to them.


----------



## Coyote

I understand all to well, and I your complete inability to see that there is more to it then the Israeli version of the facts makes discussion difficult.



Sixties Fan said:


> I will say it one more time.
> 
> You, Coyote, for whichever reason, is unable to understand what actually happened in 1948 after Israel declared Independence.



No.  Sixtiesfan.  I do understand.  I just do not agree with your version of events - which at the very least is incomplete.



> You do not seem to know or understand all the pieces which were going on at the same time, all the Arab leaders, the Arab League and the decisions they made for the whole Arab population i
> n Israel, Gaza , Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Until you grasp an understanding of the facts of history, and not narratives from one side or another, I do not see that you or any other well meaning person as you are can evolve beyond what a group of people who have endlessly said and written that they wish to see Israel destroyed and all Jews killed are and always have been about since 1920.



What makes YOU any different than the people who endlessly say and write that they wish to see the Palestinians expelled to Jordan, that they aren't a real people, that they have no rights of place, and that they have no history or culture and that Nakba is a fraud.



> I do not divert anything.  I have been giving you HISTORY, *which is the most important thing to any people.
> 
> Without history, without facts, anyone can come and take anyone's identity away.*



EXACTLY.  Thank you.  So why are you so intent on stripping it from the Palestinians?



> The Palestinians are a people who DID NOT consider themselves Palestinians before Arafat came up with the idea with the KGB in 1964.   That is a fact which No One can change.



It doesn't matter what they called themselves - they certainly considered themselves a people of that PLACE.  Every "people" STARTS somewhere.  Before there were Jews here there were other peoples.  How old does a history have to be for a people to be a people?    



> I have said it very clearly, the Arabs who were living on the land until 1948 were more than welcome to work on their own State as there had been a partition proposal since 1937 and the Jews accepted that.
> 
> I have no way of knowing what sources you read, or listen to.......and I cannot change your mind with historical facts you are unable to see.



I post my sources.



> There are 1.2 Million Arab Muslims and Christians in Israel. Many are citizens.  Many are applying to become citizens. They have jobs, health care, representation in the Knesset, etc, etc.
> 
> And does not even include all the Arabs who live in Areas A and B who come to work, study and for health care.
> 
> The same used to be true about the Arabs in Gaza until about 2000.
> They still get weekly health from Israel and get to come into Israel for health issues, including the Leaders.
> 
> Contrast that with how many Jews work, study or get any health care in Gaza or Areas A and B.



This is why I say you are diverting - I have NO ARGUMENT with you on the above.  I am not saying Israel is not a good place.  I am not saying that the Palestinians have diversity problems.  But none of that is relevent really to the actual discussion.



> There was a Nakba?  Yes, there was.  One of the Arab leaders making.  The Palestinians will say so themselves.  There are videos of some villagers filmed by Iranian TV on how they were told to leave by their leaders.  Or by the Jordanian soldiers.




Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>The Palestinian Exodus 1948</b>
_Benny Morris: I do think it’s relevant, since the historian must analyze what happened on the ground. *However, the first thing is to accurately define the two traditional views of what happened*. Since 1948, *the Jews have maintained that the Arabs fled, either what is called voluntarily, or because of orders or requests by their leaders inside or outside Palestine*. This has been the basis of Israeli propaganda since 1948. 

The *Arab view was that the Jews expelled the Palestinians deliberately and systematically*, and that this was the end-product or the crowning achievement of Zionist ideology which always maintained that the Palestinians had to be transferred outside of Palestine. In 1948 the Jews got the opportunity to implement the long-conceived plan. If this is so, then Zionism is a robber ideology and Israel is a robber state, according to the traditional Arab view. 

*The Jewish claim is that Israel had no intention of expelling everybody, but in fact, the Israelis took a deliberate political and military decision not to allow the refugees back.* 

*Many Palestinians left not because they were actually expelled but because of the fear of war, the fear of battle reaching their homes, and so on. But once they had left their villages and the country, and then tried to come back and were barred - that is the point where one can talk of a policy of expulsion*_​

He goes on to state:
_In general, the Arabs fled as a result of direct Jewish attack or an attack in the neighborhood. It was the same in the countryside and towns. So one can probably safely say that, though there were other reasons, the major precip¬itant to the flight of the Arabs of Palestine throughout the war was Jewish attack or what was felt to be the threat of imminent attack by Jewish forces.

...(re Ben-Gurion)...At this point, he begins to think of exploiting the situation. *If they are already moving by themselves without a Jewish policy of moving them, per¬haps with a little more deliberate nudging we can get even more to leave.* So in terms of the leader of the Yishllv Oewish community), the vital change I think, if there is a change, occurs in February 1948. He understands that we have to exploit the situation to establish the Jewish state and to increase its ter¬ritory beyond what the United Nations had earmarked for Jewish statehood. 

The change among other leaders was slower. Ben-Gurion acted as a lob¬byist and was also able to instruct and order the military establishment under his command about what he wanted. You can see the change occur¬ring among other Israeli leaders and officials from April onwards. Up to then, they were thinking in terms of the Arabs staying. Then they, too, adopt¬ed the idea of *exploiting the military situation in order to evacuate the Arabs*._​

This article is in fact really interesting and in depth.  And the history was clearly full of miscalculations on both sides, most certainly the Arabs.

This is a bit of a sidetrack (and I had not realized this either) but it explains I guess some of the actions back then:
_
*One of the contradictions many Israelis ask me all the time to explain is if the Arabs are so attached to their land, why (unlike the Jews) did they seemingly leave so quickly? *
One thing which the Jews didn’t grasp in 1948 and afterwards, is how deep the fear of the Jews was among the Arabs. The Jews thought of themselves - their self-image was, we are civilized and Europeans and so on. Why should anybody fear us? 

 But the fact is that the retaliatory policy of the Hagana in the late 1930’s and the IZL’s (Irgun) terrorism in the 1930s and 1940s had ingrained in the Arabs a deep fear of the Jews. More immediately, when the war began, they sensed their villages would be destroyed, their people massacred, their women raped. 

 And the Jews, in fact, gave them a whole series of examples on which to build this fear. Each atrocity, such as Oeir Yassin, generated -like a stone in pool-little waves which went to the neighboring villages and beyond. Arab propaganda also inflated this fear._​
So things were *very chaotic, with many factions in play*.  It was nothing so simplistic as "the Arab leaders told them to flee and they did creating thus their own catostrophe" as you state..



> The Nakba is a catastrophe brought by the leaders on the Arabs who were made to flee in order to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel.
> That is a fact no one can change.
> The catastrophe was 5 Arab Armies losing to a much small number of Jews who had to fight for their survival.



That is not a fact.  That is your opinion.



> And let me bring a historical fact you may forget.
> 
> This is ONLY three years after the discovery of what Germany had done to the Jews of Europe.
> 
> And it is about Seven years after the Palestinian Arab Leader Husseini
> went to Iraq and incited the Arab population there to riot against the Jews there.  Nearly 2000 dead, many thousands more injured.
> 
> THAT is the mentality going on with the Arab leaders, one of them Husseini himself.
> 
> 
> *INTENT is very much what determines how history is to look at an event, *and NOT the narrative of one side or another.
> 
> The INTENT of the Arabs was to kill all Jews.



No.  Not at all. "Intent" is often subjective.  "Intent" depends on who is viewing.  Intent is often the least clear part of history.  History is written by the victor and it is that person that records it until later people start examining  the "facts" a bit more closely.

We had our "cowboys and indians" version of history for decades.  The Turks had their version of the Armenian genocide.  Russia has rewritten it's own history endlessly.



> Had they succeeded, are you still reading this, how much of a shrug would it have gotten as the massacre in Iraq did.  Or what kept happening during WWII which was endlessly shrugged and ignored until the concentration camps were opened?



No one is disputing this least of all myself.



> I want you to think, Coyote.  As long as it takes you to do it.  Research and all.    I know you can.
> 
> History matters.  Period.
> 
> Patterns matter.  1300 years of Muslim on Jews pattern does matter.



History matters a great deal.  And no one has the right to take the Palestinians history from them any more then they have the right to take the Jew's history from them.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida - Dec. 19, 2017


















_Excerpt of an op-ed by Bakr Abu Bakr, Fatah Revolutionary Council member and regular columnist for the official PA daily_

Headline: “Palestine, what is under the ground and what is above it belongs to you”

       “There is no doubt about the Arabness of Palestine for the last 10,000 years, as [PA] President Mahmoud Abbas noted in his latest speech in Istanbul. Regarding the Children of Israel, the Arab tribe that became extinct, and its presence here, indeed it is Arab movement (i.e., apparently meaning an Arab nomadic tribe), and the present residents of our land who are affiliated with the Jewish religion have no connection to them. In other words, they (the residents of the [Zionist] entity) [parentheses in source] are affiliated with several nations, and there is no hereditary – DNA – or national connection between them and the Children of Israel that became extinct. On the other hand, we – the Jebusites, Canaanites (members of the Kinana tribe) [parentheses in source], and Arab Palestinians (the Philistines) [parentheses in source], members of the Tayy tribe, and other tribes - were in Palestine even before the Common Era and established civilization and Jerusalem…
The groups of people that are affiliated with Judaism today… were never a people at any time in history. Religion does not create a people or race. Palestine belongs solely to the Palestinian Arabs, as Yemen belongs solely to the Yemenite Arabs. The scattered members of the nations that are affiliated with Judaism have countries of their own, and if they are here, this is for a Western colonialist goal – the dismantling of the [Arab] nation – and this is pure exploitation of the cover of a religious lie…
O Muslim, O Christian, O Arab, O Palestinian – do not let your spirit fall, as the land belongs to you, and the skies, and the sea. What is under the ground and what is above it attests to this. Our story with these foreigners begins only with the _Nakba_ (i.e., “the catastrophe,” Palestinian term for the establishment of the State of Israel).”


Op-ed in PA daily invents ancient Arab history in Palestine, denies any Jewish ties to the land of Israel: “If they are here, this is for a Western colonialist goal” - Jewish history in Land of Israel erased | PMW


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why should Germany put the Holocaust in their textbooks?   And no I am not trying to make a moral equivalency.
> 
> This is trying to erase Nakbah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The posted article DOES try to make a false moral equivalency between the Shoah and the Nakba.
> 
> But no one is *erasing the Nakba*.  Everyone acknowledges that the events happened.
> 
> *What IS being done is challenging the narrative. * The term has grown to encompass an entire narrative which is lacking any sort of proper contextualization.
Click to expand...


But the narrative that is challenging Nakba is so distorted that it essentially DOES just that.

I'll again use the Holocaust as an example though the Holocaust was far far worse, and there was no military conflict to complicate narratives.  Also it's history has been more widely studied and dissected.  But you have seen our clever anti-semites chewing away at it.  They'll say it was the fault of the Jews (economic boycotts), they will say the numbers are grossly inflated, they'll say that there were no gas chambers and the deaths were starvation, etc - not discounting that it happened, but attempting to minimalize it and alter the narrative into something quite different.

When the claim is made that the Palestinians did it to themselves - that their leaders told them to flee and they did causing Nakba - then that is denying them their history.  It is also, as you succinctly put it "lacking any sort of proper contextualization".


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> *And right here is an example of the denial Shusha says does not exist. * The Palestinians arent a real people and Nakba is no big deal.  You are far more eloquent in your wording and divert onto other issues,* but it is there none the less.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are we reading the same post?  He said neither of these things.
> 
> Further, he confirms that Israel has ALWAYS been willing for the Arabs to have sovereignty and rights in that land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.
> 
> 1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why Israeli textbooks should include the term, that describes the creation of Israel in 1948 as a "catastrophe"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why should Germany put the Holocaust in their textbooks?   And no I am not trying to make a moral equivalency.
> 
> This is trying to erase Nakbah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's insulting to Israel to call its creation and independence a "catastrophe."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well to the Palestinians it WAS a catastrophe and it's insulting to pretend otherwise.  In a really ironic way it represents to THEM what the exodus represented to the Jews thousands of years ago.  And I suspect the history back then was just as complicated as the history today.
> 
> Refusing to acknowledge it in any way doesn't erase it but trying to excise it is an attempt to erase a particular people's history.
> 
> In the article, it notes this about legislation against commemorating Na ba:  _An initial version proposed by the far-right foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman would have banned all Nakba commemorations and carried sentences of up to three years in prison_.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are two sides to any war.
> 
> The ones who win.
> The ones who lose.
> 
> Israel survived the onslaught of 5 Arab Armies against it population the day after it declared Independence.
> 
> Israel lost 6000 lives, many more wounded, all of Judea and Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem were cleansed of all Jews.
> 
> This is the Israeli Nakba, the catastrophe Israel never asked for, having offered endlessly to share the land with the Arab of the land.
> 
> The Arabs attacked.  The Arabs lost.
> 
> Germany attacked in WWI and II.  It lost.
> 
> Ottomans attacked with Germany.  They lost.
> 
> They knew how to lose.  They accepted it.
> 
> The Arabs, being Muslims, and having lost to Islam's hated Jews, to this day cannot accept that they lost.
> 
> Many of the Arab countries have made peace or have learned to live with Israel and the real history of what happened, especially the fact that 5 Arab armies lost the war they started in 1948.
> 
> Time for the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians to make their leaders in Gaza and Judea and Samaria, accept the fact that they have lost each and every time and there is not turning back, as there was no turning back for the Germans, Ottomans, Japanese, or any other country or group of people, which has declared war on others
> and then lost.
> 
> One cannot keep millions of a group as refugees forever, hoping that one day they will achieve what that war was about.  In this case:
> The destruction of Israel and the doing away with all Jews, one way or another, just as it was done during WWII.
> 
> And by all means....PLLEAESE..........
> 
> Never, ever, equate the Arabs being expelled because of a war they started with the Israel and the Jews, and the Hebrew Exodus from Egypt more than 3000 years ago.
> 
> Or with the Inquisition, or the Holocaust or any other distinctly Jewish
> tragedy, or liberation.
> 
> The Jewish Exodus from Egypt was Never a tragedy, a catastrophe for the Hebrews.
> 
> It was the freedom they had been looking for after decades or centuries of being enslaved by the Egyptians.
> 
> The Hebrews were not expelled from Egypt.  It was not their homeland or their home. They escaped and became again a free people who ended up returning to the land they came from and creating a Nation out of it.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> *And right here is an example of the denial Shusha says does not exist. * The Palestinians arent a real people and Nakba is no big deal.  You are far more eloquent in your wording and divert onto other issues,* but it is there none the less.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are we reading the same post?  He said neither of these things.
Click to expand...


Really?

How would you interpret this? (I interpret it as a statement designed to show the Palestinians aren't a real people).

_Could you point out the difference between the Palestinian culture and the Egyptian one? Or the Saudi one?_​
How would you intepret this? (I interpret it as saying Nakbah is no big deal).

_Nakbah is the Arab cry for not having destroyed Israel in 1948 and ending up not being able to return to the land where Israel sits because the Arabs Leaders told them to leave.

The Catastrophe (Nakbah) was the Arabs listening to their Arab leaders to begin with._​
How would you interpret this? (the Palestinians are a made up people)

_There is absolutely nothing to marginalize, minimalize, and erase about Palestinian history. It starts in 1964 when Arafat with the KGB formulated that identity for the Arabs in Gaza and Judea and Samaria._​
How would you interpret this? (Palestinians aren't a real people).

_Is there really a difference in culture between a Palestinian one and all other Arab clans or countries?_​


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> *And right here is an example of the denial Shusha says does not exist. * The Palestinians arent a real people and Nakba is no big deal.  You are far more eloquent in your wording and divert onto other issues,* but it is there none the less.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are we reading the same post?  He said neither of these things.
> 
> Further, he confirms that Israel has ALWAYS been willing for the Arabs to have sovereignty and rights in that land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.
> 
> 1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why Israeli textbooks should include the term, that describes the creation of Israel in 1948 as a "catastrophe"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why should Germany put the Holocaust in their textbooks?   And no I am not trying to make a moral equivalency.
> 
> This is trying to erase Nakbah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's insulting to Israel to call its creation and independence a "catastrophe."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well to the Palestinians it WAS a catastrophe and it's insulting to pretend otherwise.  In a really ironic way it represents to THEM what the exodus represented to the Jews thousands of years ago.  And I suspect the history back then was just as complicated as the history today.
> 
> Refusing to acknowledge it in any way doesn't erase it but trying to excise it is an attempt to erase a particular people's history.
> 
> In the article, it notes this about legislation against commemorating Na ba:  _An initial version proposed by the far-right foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman would have banned all Nakba commemorations and carried sentences of up to three years in prison_.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are two sides to any war.
> 
> The ones who win.
> The ones who lose.
> 
> Israel survived the onslaught of 5 Arab Armies against it population the day after it declared Independence.
> 
> Israel lost 6000 lives, many more wounded, all of Judea and Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem were cleansed of all Jews.
> 
> This is the Israeli Nakba, the catastrophe Israel never asked for, having offered endlessly to share the land with the Arab of the land.
> 
> The Arabs attacked.  The Arabs lost.
> 
> Germany attacked in WWI and II.  It lost.
> 
> *Ottomans attacked with Germany.  They lost.
> 
> They knew how to lose.  They accepted it.*
> 
> *The Arabs, being Muslims, and having lost to Islam's hated Jews, to this day cannot accept that they lost.*
> 
> Many of the Arab countries have made peace or have learned to live with Israel and the real history of what happened, especially the fact that 5 Arab armies lost the war they started in 1948.
> 
> Time for the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians to make their leaders in Gaza and Judea and Samaria, accept the fact that they have lost each and every time and there is not turning back, as there was no turning back for the Germans, Ottomans, Japanese, or any other country or group of people, which has declared war on others
> and then lost.
> 
> One cannot keep millions of a group as refugees forever, hoping that one day they will achieve what that war was about.  In this case:
> The destruction of Israel and the doing away with all Jews, one way or another, just as it was done during WWII.
> 
> And by all means....PLLEAESE..........
> 
> Never, ever, equate the Arabs being expelled because of a war they started with the Israel and the Jews, and the Hebrew Exodus from Egypt more than 3000 years ago.
> 
> Or with the Inquisition, or the Holocaust or any other distinctly Jewish
> tragedy, or liberation.
> 
> The Jewish Exodus from Egypt was Never a tragedy, a catastrophe for the Hebrews.
> 
> It was the freedom they had been looking for after decades or centuries of being enslaved by the Egyptians.
> 
> The Hebrews were not expelled from Egypt.  It was not their homeland or their home. They escaped and became again a free people who ended up returning to the land they came from and creating a Nation out of it.
Click to expand...


The Ottomans were Muslim as well.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Shusha said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is it not?
> 
> Palestinian refugee camps - Wikipedia
> 
> Why do such camps exist? How can culture not be destroyed when people don't even have their own home?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you conflate the intentional destruction of culture with these other topics?  The Arabs are deliberately destroying physical artifacts and archaeological sites so that Jewish history becomes lost, non-existent, disappeared.  They are doing this specifically for the purpose of denying Jewish history and therefore Jewish claim.  They are destroying reality in order to create a false history.  (And its working -- see all the ridiculous claims being made on this board and in the Arab world).
> 
> This has nothing to do with the camps.  And I can say with absolute certainty that a culture is NOT destroyed when people don't even have their own home.  The Jewish culture is alive and well and thriving after thousands of years in the Diaspora.  But THANK YOU for articulating another fear and concern about why the Jewish people must remain linked to and present in the Jewish homeland.  You know, besides having that history destroyed by people who wish to usurp not only the territory, but the history.
> 
> 
> And, btw, why do these camps exist?  There is not a single refugee camp in Israel.  ALL of the people of Israel have citizenship, equality under the law and the ability to practice their culture.  ALL of the Arabs.  And ALL of the nearly one million Jews who were stripped of their homes, properties, livelihoods and citizenship and ethnically cleansed from the surrounding ME countries.  Why do these camps exist?  They exist in "Palestine", in Gaza, in Jordan and in Lebanon.  They exist in the midst of a similar, or even identical, culture, where they should be welcomed.  And yet they are left in camps -- denied rights, freedoms, citizenship, the ability to work.  Its a terrible thing.  And deeply shameful, criminal, for the Arabs to treat their fellows this way.
Click to expand...


Are you telling me that every topic exists in isolation and nothing ever has anything to do with anything else?

Does culture only disappear with the destruction of historical artifacts?

Is Israel not doing the same thing?

Oh, you say with absolute certainty that these camps are not causing the destruction of culture.

What is culture? Is it possible to keep culture alive in the misery and despair of a camp, growing up in the camp, living there your whole life, are you really a part of the culture of your people? 

You say Jewish culture has survived for thousands of years away from home. But these Jews weren't in camps. They were able to make homes and get jobs and live their lives. Sometimes this got interrupted and no doubt culture changed over this period of time too.

As much as you think I'm anti-Jewish or something like that, I'm not. I do think the Jewish people should be able to have their own place to call home. The problem I have is that you have a place where two sides are always at loggerheads and are willing to cheat, lie, do anything in order to gain victory, but neither is strong enough to win. So you have perpetual conflict. 

Yes, why do these camps exist?

Jews Now Minority in Israel and Territories

"Proponents worry that if Israel continues to control the Palestinian territories, with or without formal annexation, the different birthrates of Jews and Arabs will eventually result in Jews being a minority in the territory under Israeli control. At that point Israel will no longer be a Jewish state"

Israel puts bill to ‘ensure Jewish majority’ in Jerusalem on hold to ‘coordinate with US’

"
*Israel puts bill to ‘ensure Jewish majority’ in Jerusalem on hold to ‘coordinate with US’*"

I didn't find exactly what I wanted, but the gist is here. Basically the Jews will never, ever let Israel become a minority Jewish state. They have always made sure it's been a Jewish state with a majority of Jews. They'll accept Muslims as long as they keep control. If the Muslims in Israel were to grow at such a rate as to replace Jews as the Majority, the Jews would do something about it, as they did something about it in the past.

In 1931 there were 175,000 Jews in Palestine and 760,000 Muslims. 
In 1947 there were 630,000 Jews in Palestine and 1.181 million Muslims.

Muslims were still a majority. 

By 1950 Israel existed and the population of Israel was 1.37 million. Clearly not all those people who were in Palestine were suddenly Israeli citizens.

1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia

700,000 Arabs were expelled from their homes. "around 80 percent of the Arab inhabitants of what became Israel (50 percent of the Arab total of Mandatory Palestine) left or were expelled from their homes."

Which then helped Israel to become majority Jewish.


But you're partly right. These people are in camps because the neighboring countries also see them as political tools. Israel expelled people from their own land, their own homes. They got rid of them for political reasons and they WON'T ACCEPT THEM BACK. We know why. They don't want a majority Muslim country. So they're playing politics as much as everyone else, and using people's lives as a reason to do this. In the process they've attempted to destroy the culture of the region.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Shusha said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> "The Jewish people base their claim to the land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham; 2) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 3) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people and 4) the territory was captured in defensive wars."
> 
> Claims for the land of Israel/Palestine to be Jewish are stated here. 1) is that "God promised the land" to them. That's pretty far fetched from where I'm sitting to use your own religion as justification for kicking other people off the land.
> 
> 2) is probably the only one with any real substance here. That they have been a presence in the land, along with the Muslims, means that both should share the land, rather than trying to claim it all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to try really hard to stay on topic here.  I think you are trying to drag it off course because you can't actually find any instances of Israel deliberately destroying Arab Palestinian culture and yet somehow want to demonize Israel anyway.
> 
> First, be clear -- I reject the premise of #1, listed above. Religion, as important as it is to the people who practice it (including me), should never be the basis of political decisions.  I also reject #4.  The rights and claims of the Jewish people have nothing to do with the result of any conflict.  #3 is simply the international acknowledgement of the source of Jewish claim.  It is not the actual source.
> 
> And here is where we come back to the topic.  The Jewish claim to the territory as a homeland for the Jewish people is based on their ancestral, historical, ethnic and religious indigeneity.  The Jewish people originated on that land, pre-conquest and pre-invasion.  Their history in that land goes back thousands of years.  It manifests in their language, their laws, their myths, the clothing they wear, the foods they eat, the holidays they celebrate.  The evidence is wide and deep and varied and there can be absolutely no question of the veracity of this.
> 
> And yet the Arabs not only question the veracity of this -- they actively attempt to erase the history of the Jewish people.  *This strategy is employed, not to have the Arab narrative amplified, but to have the Jewish narrative SILENCED.*  Irrevocably.  If there is no evidence that the Jewish people's homeland is in this place, if there is only evidence of Arab occupation, then the Jewish people can be disappeared.  And its working.  UNESCO has erased the Jewish connection to places like Jerusalem's Old City and the Temple Mount and to Hevron.
Click to expand...


I'm not anti-Jewish, so don't try and paint me as the simple black and white character that is totally opposed to Jews and totally for Muslims.

I hate religion, yet at the same time accept people's right to practice religion as long as it doesn't interfere with people's lives. The problem is the Jews AND Muslims in the region are going way beyond simple interference in people's lives.

The problem here, again, is that you're trying to limit the topic to your own views of what culture is, how culture can be destroyed in order to control the narrative and you don't like it that it's taken a turn where things might not actually be as you think they are. That's not my problem, but you're not going to attack me by saying "stay on topic". I've already had one person try that on this thread alone.

Okay, Israel's claim to the land is historical. Yes, at one time Jews were the majority in the land. That was a very long time ago. 

From the 5th Century onward it hasn't been the case. 
Muslims have as much right to claim the land as their own as the Jews do. It's that simple. If 800 years of majority status in a country doesn't allow you to claim that you're a part of the land, then what does? 

The other problem here is that white people have only been a majority in the US for like 300 years. So, would that mean that the white people should be kicked out of the US? 

Well... the issue here comes back to power. The white people aren't going anywhere in the US, not because they don't have a legitimate claim, but because they control the power. Israel is trying to claim the power to do what it likes, and the Muslims are also trying to do this too. It's a power struggle and people will come out with things like "we have the historical claim to this land". Well..... three religious groups and other ethnic groups also hold claims that are far more valid than white people's claim to the USA.

Muslims are trying to wipe out Jewish claims, and you have even stated here that Jews have the claim to the land, which is attempting to diminish the claims of the Muslims to that land. What comes around, goes around.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> "The Jewish people base their claim to the land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham; 2) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 3) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people and 4) the territory was captured in defensive wars."
> 
> Claims for the land of Israel/Palestine to be Jewish are stated here. 1) is that "God promised the land" to them. That's pretty far fetched from where I'm sitting to use your own religion as justification for kicking other people off the land.
> 
> 2) is probably the only one with any real substance here. That they have been a presence in the land, along with the Muslims, means that both should share the land, rather than trying to claim it all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to try really hard to stay on topic here.  I think you are trying to drag it off course because you can't actually find any instances of Israel deliberately destroying Arab Palestinian culture and yet somehow want to demonize Israel anyway.
> 
> First, be clear -- I reject the premise of #1, listed above. Religion, as important as it is to the people who practice it (including me), should never be the basis of political decisions.  I also reject #4.  The rights and claims of the Jewish people have nothing to do with the result of any conflict.  #3 is simply the international acknowledgement of the source of Jewish claim.  It is not the actual source.
> 
> And here is where we come back to the topic.  The Jewish claim to the territory as a homeland for the Jewish people is based on their ancestral, historical, ethnic and religious indigeneity.  The Jewish people originated on that land, pre-conquest and pre-invasion.  Their history in that land goes back thousands of years.  It manifests in their language, their laws, their myths, the clothing they wear, the foods they eat, the holidays they celebrate.  The evidence is wide and deep and varied and there can be absolutely no question of the veracity of this.
> 
> And yet the Arabs not only question the veracity of this -- they actively attempt to erase the history of the Jewish people.  *This is a strategy is employed, not to have the Arab narrative amplified but to have the Jewish narrative SILENCED.*  Irrevocably.  If there is no evidence that the Jewish people's homeland is in this place, if there is only evidence of Arab occupation, then the Jewish people can be disappeared.  And its working.  UNESCO has erased the Jewish connection to places like Jerusalem's Old City and the Temple Mount and to Hevron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes, how they are handled matters. The problem in that area right now is that the right wing on both sides is using conflict to enhance their own positions.
> 
> What I meant by "it doesn't matter" is that the REALITY isn't important, it's the narrative that each side is producing that is important, that is what is pushing this whole thing, rather than the reality of whether this cultural site is "destroyed" or whatever. If the Palestinian people BELIEVE something has happened, or the Israeli people BELIEVE something has happened, then this is more important than whether it actually happened or not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I actually hear what you are saying.  However, the Arabs (and not just the Palestinians) are using the actual destruction of history as evidence that the Jewish people don't have a history in that land.  They are creating a false reality, a false historical record, to erase the Jewish people.  Deliberately.  Intentionally.  This is VASTLY different than Israel being insensitive about a Muslim burial ground.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, both sides are creating a false narrative.
> 
> Israel is pushing conflict for a reason, and that reason is an excuse to push the boundaries of the state. Without conflict they could never get the support to do this.
> 
> There are different ways to try and do this, they're all bad, but this doesn't mean that Israel is any less guilty of trying to destroy culture in order to try and control the narrative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But Israel is NOT destroying culture to control the narrative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But Team Israel IS in the sense they are denying the Palestinians right to their own culture (referring to them as just Arabs) and narrative (Nakbah).  As Team Palestine is doing to the Jews - marginalize, minimalize, and erase.
> 
> The destruction of artifacts though is beyond contempt.  Anothet reason why those places should be under Israeli control I think.  Their leadership has shown a willingness and ability to preserve and understand the history and archeology of the region.  It is irreplaceable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Could you point out the difference between the Palestinian culture and the Egyptian one?  Or the Saudi one?
> 
> Nakbah is the Arab cry for not having destroyed Israel in 1948 and ending up not being able to return to the land where Israel sits because the Arabs Leaders told them to leave.
> 
> The Catastrophe (Nakbah) was the Arabs listening to their Arab leaders to begin with.
> 
> "It will only take two weeks to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews" was the saying they heard.
> 
> The Arab leaders failed, lost their attacks, war on Israel and most Arabs (as they believe in the destruction of Israel and the Jews) have not been allowed to return as they would be a fifth column.  Just like the many Arabs who do live in Israel and are even in the Knesset and do everything they can to erase the History of the country.
> 
> There is absolutely nothing to marginalize, minimalize, and erase about Palestinian history.  It starts in 1964 when Arafat with the KGB formulated that identity for the Arabs in Gaza and Judea and Samaria.
> 
> The Arabs themselves are proud to say that they saw themselves as part of greater Syria and wanted to be part of Syria.  They were not fighting for a region or country named Palestine.
> 
> Therefore, "Team Israel" has truly never denied the Arabs rights to live on the land, or even to partition the land and have them have their own Arab State after another Arab clan took 78% of the Jewish homeland for themselves and do not allow Jews to live on it again since 1925.
> 
> Team Israel has even offered 98% of its most ancient land with the eastern part of Jerusalem as their capital.
> 
> "Team Palestine" needs to put the Arab leaders to answer the why they have rejected two partitions and many peace offerings, and especially why they have gone to UNESCO to turn all Jewish Holy Sites into Muslim ones.
> 
> Is Jerusalem Muslim?
> The Arabs want the world to accept Jerusalem as a Muslim holy site only.
> 
> Where has Israel ever tried to negate the rights of the Arabs who lived on the land for centuries, or even a few decades,  to any part of the mandate for Palestine to be turned into their own State?
> 
> Has Israel denied the Muslims their holy sites or access to them?
> 
> What happens to Jews who want to visit the Temple Mount, the Cave or the Tombs? Or any other Jewish Holy site?
> 
> Do we understand the difference?
> 
> Is there really a difference in culture between a Palestinian one and all other Arab clans or countries?
> 
> What is the difference?
Click to expand...


I had the same claim from a Spaniard. 

He said the Catalans didn't have their own culture, it was Spanish culture, therefore Franco didn't try to destroy Catalan culture. 

Complete nonsense of course.


----------



## Shusha

frigidweirdo said:


> Does culture only disappear with the destruction of historical artifacts?
> 
> Is Israel not doing the same thing?



No, Israel is NOT doing the same thing.  That is entirely my point.  And you have, thus far, failed to provide any evidence that Israel is doing the same thing. 

There are NO camps in any of the places Israel controls.  If you are concerned with the people being held in camps, or their retention of their culture -- and you should be -- you need to take it up with the Palestinians, the Gazans, the Jordanians and the Lebanese.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Shusha said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does culture only disappear with the destruction of historical artifacts?
> 
> Is Israel not doing the same thing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, Israel is NOT doing the same thing.  That is entirely my point.  And you have, thus far, failed to provide any evidence that Israel is doing the same thing.
> 
> There are NO camps in any of the places Israel controls.  If you are concerned with the people being held in camps, or their retention of their culture -- and you should be -- you need to take it up with the Palestinians, the Gazans, the Jordanians and the Lebanese.
Click to expand...


I get that this is your point. And I'm attacking your point because it's wrong.

Ah, I've failed to provide evidence that Israel is doing what the Palestinians are doing, even though MY ARGUMENT is that Israel is doing something DIFFERENT to what the Palestinians are doing.

Right... do you want me to provide evidence that Superbowl happened in 1821 too? Why? It's not MY ARGUMENT. 

As for no camps in Israeli territory, I'm not really sure what point you think you're trying to make with this. 

It's like saying that as there are no refugee camps in Syria, therefore it's not the Syrian govt who forced them out of the country. Are you serious? That's a pretty terrible argument and I'm not really taking it seriously.


----------



## Shusha

frigidweirdo said:


> I get that this is your point. And I'm attacking your point because it's wrong.


Prove it then.  Show me exactly how Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history.



> Ah, I've failed to provide evidence that Israel is doing what the Palestinians are doing, even though MY ARGUMENT is that Israel is doing something DIFFERENT to what the Palestinians are doing.


I have no doubt Israel is doing different things.  Start a thread for the different things, then.  This thread is about the destruction of history.



> As for no camps in Israeli territory, I'm not really sure what point you think you're trying to make with this.


The point I am making is that Israel does not control the camps.  She has absolutely NO influence on how the Palestinian people are treated outside her areas of control.  (Within her area of control, there are no camps because she didn't make any.)

You want the people from the camps released and given lives with dignity.  I FULLY support that.  You have no idea how much I support that. The sooner the better.  Start a thread on it and I will participate.  But it has NOTHING to do with the destruction of history.


----------



## abi

Shusha said:


> Prove it then. Show me exactly how Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history.


Does he need to prove that Washington was our first President?


----------



## abi

Shusha said:


> The point I am making is that Israel does not control the camps. She has absolutely NO influence on how the Palestinian people are treated outside her areas of control. (Within her area of control, there are no camps because she didn't make any.)
> 
> You want the people from the camps released and given lives with dignity. I FULLY support that. You have no idea how much I support that. The sooner the better. Start a thread on it and I will participate. But it has NOTHING to do with the destruction of history.


Right of return... Finally, you got it!


----------



## Shusha

abi said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point I am making is that Israel does not control the camps. She has absolutely NO influence on how the Palestinian people are treated outside her areas of control. (Within her area of control, there are no camps because she didn't make any.)
> 
> You want the people from the camps released and given lives with dignity. I FULLY support that. You have no idea how much I support that. The sooner the better. Start a thread on it and I will participate. But it has NOTHING to do with the destruction of history.
> 
> 
> 
> Right of return... Finally, you got it!
Click to expand...


I have been supporting the argument for the right of return for more than a dozen years.  Start a thread.


----------



## abi

Shusha said:


> I have been supporting the argument for the right of return for more than a dozen years. Start a thread.


That is delusional. You argue that right of return puts the zionists in a position where they are no longer the majority vote. That idea infuriates you.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Shusha said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I get that this is your point. And I'm attacking your point because it's wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it then.  Show me exactly how Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, I've failed to provide evidence that Israel is doing what the Palestinians are doing, even though MY ARGUMENT is that Israel is doing something DIFFERENT to what the Palestinians are doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have no doubt Israel is doing different things.  Start a thread for the different things, then.  This thread is about the destruction of history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for no camps in Israeli territory, I'm not really sure what point you think you're trying to make with this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point I am making is that Israel does not control the camps.  She has absolutely NO influence on how the Palestinian people are treated outside her areas of control.  (Within her area of control, there are no camps because she didn't make any.)
> 
> You want the people from the camps released and given lives with dignity.  I FULLY support that.  You have no idea how much I support that. The sooner the better.  Start a thread on it and I will participate.  But it has NOTHING to do with the destruction of history.
Click to expand...


Well I've done some of that already and you rejected it because it doesn't meet with your agenda. 

If you recall I mentioned the camps, moving Muslims out of Israeli territory etc. 

Oh, here we go again. The old "start a new thread if you don't agree with me" lark. Er.... I have a difference of opinion, that doesn't mean I can't say it in this thread.
And to be honest it's starting to piss me off that the same lame fucking tactics are getting used over and over to stop people from mentioning that you're wrong.

Here was my analogy from before.

I start a thread called "The Moon is made of cheese" and if anyone comes and says the Moon isn't made of cheese I'm going to tell them that this thread is about the Moon being made of cheese and they can get lost and start their own thread if they want to talk about the Moon being made of something else.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Shusha said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point I am making is that Israel does not control the camps. She has absolutely NO influence on how the Palestinian people are treated outside her areas of control. (Within her area of control, there are no camps because she didn't make any.)
> 
> You want the people from the camps released and given lives with dignity. I FULLY support that. You have no idea how much I support that. The sooner the better. Start a thread on it and I will participate. But it has NOTHING to do with the destruction of history.
> 
> 
> 
> Right of return... Finally, you got it!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have been supporting the argument for the right of return for more than a dozen years.  Start a thread.
Click to expand...


And there you go again.


----------



## Shusha

frigidweirdo said:


> Well I've done some of that already and you rejected it because it doesn't meet with your agenda.



You have brought up unrelated topics in order to confuse and conflate the issue.  You have shown absolutely nothing to indicate that Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history -- which is the topic of the thread.  



> If you recall I mentioned the camps, moving Muslims out of Israeli territory etc.


Ah, and see here you make a subtle shift in your argument.  Its not really about the camps or the loss of culture.  Its about ethnic cleansing.  

Okay.  Gotcha.  Ethnic cleansing is a method of destroying history.  Let's look at that.  

How many Arabs are there in Israel?  How many Arabs visit the Temple Mount each year?  

How many Jews are in Gaza?  The 'West Bank'?  Jordan?  The remaining nations of the ME?  How many Jews are permitted to visit the Temple Mount annually?  

Who is actually destroying culture here?  

Further, let's look at where the Arab Palestinians are.  The vast majority of them are still in Palestine.  They haven't been removed from their country.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Shusha said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I've done some of that already and you rejected it because it doesn't meet with your agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have brought up unrelated topics in order to confuse and conflate the issue.  You have shown absolutely nothing to indicate that Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history -- which is the topic of the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you recall I mentioned the camps, moving Muslims out of Israeli territory etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, and see here you make a subtle shift in your argument.  Its not really about the camps or the loss of culture.  Its about ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Okay.  Gotcha.  Ethnic cleansing is a method of destroying history.  Let's look at that.
> 
> How many Arabs are there in Israel?  How many Arabs visit the Temple Mount each year?
> 
> How many Jews are in Gaza?  The 'West Bank'?  Jordan?  The remaining nations of the ME?  How many Jews are permitted to visit the Temple Mount annually?
> 
> Who is actually destroying culture here?
> 
> Further, let's look at where the Arab Palestinians are.  The vast majority of them are still in Palestine.  They haven't been removed from their country.
Click to expand...


No, I brought up different views of other topics that you did not want to address because it goes away from your agenda. 

As for the rest, I'm not in the mood for your semantics right now.


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I've done some of that already and you rejected it because it doesn't meet with your agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have brought up unrelated topics in order to confuse and conflate the issue.  You have shown absolutely nothing to indicate that Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history -- which is the topic of the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you recall I mentioned the camps, moving Muslims out of Israeli territory etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, and see here you make a subtle shift in your argument.  Its not really about the camps or the loss of culture.  Its about ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Okay.  Gotcha.  Ethnic cleansing is a method of destroying history.  Let's look at that.
> 
> How many Arabs are there in Israel?  How many Arabs visit the Temple Mount each year?
> 
> How many Jews are in Gaza?  The 'West Bank'?  Jordan?  The remaining nations of the ME?  How many Jews are permitted to visit the Temple Mount annually?
> 
> Who is actually destroying culture here?
> 
> Further, let's look at where the Arab Palestinians are.  The vast majority of them are still in Palestine.  They haven't been removed from their country.
Click to expand...


Most Palestinians living in Palestine in 1947were evicted from Palesrine and they and their descendants now live outside of Palestine.  As many as 90% of the Christian Palestinians were forced to leave Palestine under duress.

Your claim that Zionists have not had and continue to have a policy of destroying the Palestinian culture and identity is ludicrous.  It is belied by even the Zionist posters here, when they claim that Palestinians are Arabians from the Arabian peninsula and that Palestinians don't exist.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Source: Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Nov. 18, 2017

_Excerpt of an op-ed by Yahya Rabah, regular columnist for the official PA daily_

      “[Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu is attempting to use even Israel’s transparent stories and tales in order to get out of his personal troubles. An example of this is the statement he recently gave regarding the settlement in Hebron, when he said that: ‘Israeli settlement in Hebron rests on historical rights.’ This is despite [the fact] that the young people in the Jewish schools know that Abraham – when his wife Sarah died and he wanted to buy a plot of land in order to bury her – discovered that the Canaanite laws in Hebron forbid selling land to foreigners, and therefore the king of Hebron was forced to give him a cave in order to bury his wife (sic., according to Genesis, the Hittites offered to let Abraham bury Sarah wherever he pleased without paying for the plot, but he insisted on buying the Cave of the Patriarchs, which did not belong to a king of Hebron).”

Jewish history in Land of Israel erased | PMW


----------



## Sixties Fan

The debate over who invented falafel balls is never going to be resolved.

But everyone agrees that the idea of a falafel sandwich in pita is completely Israeli.

As Haaretz reported in 2012, "Falafel was made popular in Israel by Yemeni Jews in the 1950s. They brought with them the chickpea version of the dish from Yemen and introduced the concept of serving falafel balls in pita bread."

Clearly, falafel in pita is an Israeli innovation and an example of Israeli cuisine.

And look who stole it:

The GoPalestine page includes this photo of "Palestinian" falafel in pita:





(full article online)

Palestinians stealing Israeli falafel culture!  ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Humanity

Sixties Fan said:


> The debate over who invented falafel balls is never going to be resolved.
> 
> But everyone agrees that the idea of a falafel sandwich in pita is completely Israeli.
> 
> As Haaretz reported in 2012, "Falafel was made popular in Israel by Yemeni Jews in the 1950s. They brought with them the chickpea version of the dish from Yemen and introduced the concept of serving falafel balls in pita bread."
> 
> Clearly, falafel in pita is an Israeli innovation and an example of Israeli cuisine.
> 
> And look who stole it:
> 
> The GoPalestine page includes this photo of "Palestinian" falafel in pita:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians stealing Israeli falafel culture!  ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



You just know, when people start throwing food around, excuse the pun, that any sanity in a discussion has gone out of the window!

You will be telling me next that kebabs are northern European!!


----------



## Sixties Fan

_Official PA TV program _Palestine This Morning_, on the anniversary of the PLO Palestinian declaration of independence, hosting PLO Executive Committee member Saleh Rafat_

*PLO Executive Committee member Saleh Rafat:* "There are deep Palestinian roots in Palestine throughout all of history. It is a Zionist invention that this is the land of the Jewish patriarchs. This is completely incorrect. There were Jews in Palestine... We have Muslims, Christians, and Jews. But all of them were and still are [part of] the Palestinian people. Therefore, it's a lie that was invented. The Khazar Jews were brought and expelled from Europe to Palestine, in order to get rid of them. Germany wanted to get rid of them, [as did] Britain, France, and Italy. All of Europe wanted to get rid of the Jews and expel them so that the West would have a permanent base in the Middle East. Indeed, they established the State of Israel on the land of historical Palestine."

(full article online)

PLO official: Jewish historical ties to the land is “a Zionist invention,” Jews are in “Palestine” because “Europe wanted to get rid of them” - Jewish history in Land of Israel erased | PMW


----------



## Shusha

frigidweirdo said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I've done some of that already and you rejected it because it doesn't meet with your agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have brought up unrelated topics in order to confuse and conflate the issue.  You have shown absolutely nothing to indicate that Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history -- which is the topic of the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you recall I mentioned the camps, moving Muslims out of Israeli territory etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, and see here you make a subtle shift in your argument.  Its not really about the camps or the loss of culture.  Its about ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Okay.  Gotcha.  Ethnic cleansing is a method of destroying history.  Let's look at that.
> 
> How many Arabs are there in Israel?  How many Arabs visit the Temple Mount each year?
> 
> How many Jews are in Gaza?  The 'West Bank'?  Jordan?  The remaining nations of the ME?  How many Jews are permitted to visit the Temple Mount annually?
> 
> Who is actually destroying culture here?
> 
> Further, let's look at where the Arab Palestinians are.  The vast majority of them are still in Palestine.  They haven't been removed from their country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I brought up different views of other topics that you did not want to address because it goes away from your agenda.
> 
> As for the rest, I'm not in the mood for your semantics right now.
Click to expand...


Oh, give me a break, I have addressed every one of your posts with lengthy responses.  

You wanted to talk about how cleansing people from their homeland removes their culture.  Let's talk about that.  

Why aren't the Jewish people permitted to pray at their own most Holy site?  Why, the few who are permitted to access the holy site, must they remove all cultural symbols?  Why must they make their culture invisible to the usurpers of their holy site?  

Further, you wanted to talk about the return of the Arab Palestinians to their homeland -- including the part under the sovereignty of Israel.  Are you also willing to allow the return of the Jewish people to their homeland in Judea and Samaria?  Why or why not?

If the Arabs are to return to Israel, perhaps in a one State solution, how will the Jewish culture be preserved in that environment?  What evidences do you have that the Arabs will permit the Jewish culture to exist, let alone thrive?  What guarantees would you give the Jewish people?

Let's talk about the subject matter.  Or did you just want to find reasons to bash Israel?


----------



## Humanity

Shusha said:


> Or did you just want to find reasons to bash Israel?



To be fair one doesn't have to try too hard to find reasons to bash Israel.

Israel is always coming up with reasons!


----------



## Shusha

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or did you just want to find reasons to bash Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair one doesn't have to try too hard to find reasons to bash Israel.
> 
> Israel is always coming up with reasons!
Click to expand...


There are plenty of reasons to criticize the policies of Israel's government.  Bashing Israel is something different.  

Did you care to respond to how in a "right of return" scenario, the Arabs will guarantee the preservation of Jewish culture?


----------



## Sixties Fan

_Official PA TV show _Palestine This Morning_, on the 100th anniversary of the Balfour Declaration, hosting Fatah Revolutionary Council member Abdallah Kmeil_

*Fatah Revolutionary Council member Abdallah Kmeil*: "When we talk about the Balfour Promise (i.e., Declaration), we must also talk- or get into a historical matter. There is the [former British Prime Minister Sir Henry] Campbell-Bannerman document for instance, which is an important document prepared by the former British prime minister, who held a series of meetings with the colonialist states at the time, between 1905 and 1907 (PMW could find no reliable record of such a document and the *minutes of the 1907 Imperial Conference* led by Campbell-Bannerman disprove the following claims –Ed.). This document divided the world into three parts – a part to work with that is an ally and the one that has a connection to the advanced Christian culture – they are to be helped by all means and worked with as they are allies. There is also the second part, and this is the part that between this culture and that part there is no- [there is no connection to] the states included in this framework there is no cultural clash between them, and therefore they are to be helped cautiously. The third part is the significant part that was being looked at, and that is the Arab region. They looked at the Arab region and at [the fact] that it should be made ignorant by all means, and should be divided by all means. And this nation that speaks one language cannot be divided, as it says in the text of the document: They have one language, approximately one religion, and shared hopes, and therefore also one history. *They must be divided by planting a foreign body in the heart of the Arab homeland*, and especially between Asia and Africa. And they talked about Israel or the Jews being the ones who need to be in this region. If so, the idea of a national home for the Jews is a colonialist idea, and even the Jews themselves did not have a plan-"

(full article online)

Fatah official: “The idea of a national home for the Jews is a colonialist idea… [Palestinians must] sue Britain as we are talking about a holocaust that has exceeded the Holocaust of the Jewish people in Germany” - Jewish history in Land of Israel erased | PMW


----------



## frigidweirdo

Shusha said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I've done some of that already and you rejected it because it doesn't meet with your agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have brought up unrelated topics in order to confuse and conflate the issue.  You have shown absolutely nothing to indicate that Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history -- which is the topic of the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you recall I mentioned the camps, moving Muslims out of Israeli territory etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, and see here you make a subtle shift in your argument.  Its not really about the camps or the loss of culture.  Its about ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Okay.  Gotcha.  Ethnic cleansing is a method of destroying history.  Let's look at that.
> 
> How many Arabs are there in Israel?  How many Arabs visit the Temple Mount each year?
> 
> How many Jews are in Gaza?  The 'West Bank'?  Jordan?  The remaining nations of the ME?  How many Jews are permitted to visit the Temple Mount annually?
> 
> Who is actually destroying culture here?
> 
> Further, let's look at where the Arab Palestinians are.  The vast majority of them are still in Palestine.  They haven't been removed from their country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I brought up different views of other topics that you did not want to address because it goes away from your agenda.
> 
> As for the rest, I'm not in the mood for your semantics right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, give me a break, I have addressed every one of your posts with lengthy responses.
> 
> You wanted to talk about how cleansing people from their homeland removes their culture.  Let's talk about that.
> 
> Why aren't the Jewish people permitted to pray at their own most Holy site?  Why, the few who are permitted to access the holy site, must they remove all cultural symbols?  Why must they make their culture invisible to the usurpers of their holy site?
> 
> Further, you wanted to talk about the return of the Arab Palestinians to their homeland -- including the part under the sovereignty of Israel.  Are you also willing to allow the return of the Jewish people to their homeland in Judea and Samaria?  Why or why not?
> 
> If the Arabs are to return to Israel, perhaps in a one State solution, how will the Jewish culture be preserved in that environment?  What evidences do you have that the Arabs will permit the Jewish culture to exist, let alone thrive?  What guarantees would you give the Jewish people?
> 
> Let's talk about the subject matter.  Or did you just want to find reasons to bash Israel?
Click to expand...


Yes, you could have written a lengthy response about the 1789 Super Bowl, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily relevant. 

What you're telling me is either that I stick to the parts of the topic you want to talk about or else I'm off topic. Which would basically mean that I'm not allowed to disagree with the whole premise of your view of the topic.

Why can't Jews go to their most Holy Site and pray?

Well, the Jews came into the region with all guns blazing and kicked out a large number of the local inhabitants and put a lot of them into camps. I'd say the locals are pretty pissed off, wouldn't you say? 

Pissed off enough to try anything to get their own back? And it's not like Israel doesn't provoke at every given opportunity. Palestinian homes being destroyed, new Jewish homes being built all the time. 

If you want to live side by side peacefully, you're going to have to act in a different way. I'm not saying it's possible, the animosity over the last 70 years is immense and might take two generations or more to put right, and certainly the politicians to put it right aren't in power.

You say I want to talk about the return of Arab Palestinians to their homeland. Er.. I don't ever remember talking about that with you.. so..... what? 

Ah, you think I'm just here to bash Israel. You're just trying to stick my views in a convenient little box that you can understand simply. Sorry dude, my views don't fit in any of your boxes. I'm saying what I'm saying, don't make assumptions about what I'm not saying, it annoys the hell out of me. I've had so many debates on here where people start assuming I think something I don't think.

I already told you once, I'm not pro-Palestinian, I'm not pro-Israeli. I think the right wing Israeli govt is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes, and I think Hamas is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes.


----------



## Coyote

frigidweirdo said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I've done some of that already and you rejected it because it doesn't meet with your agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have brought up unrelated topics in order to confuse and conflate the issue.  You have shown absolutely nothing to indicate that Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history -- which is the topic of the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you recall I mentioned the camps, moving Muslims out of Israeli territory etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, and see here you make a subtle shift in your argument.  Its not really about the camps or the loss of culture.  Its about ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Okay.  Gotcha.  Ethnic cleansing is a method of destroying history.  Let's look at that.
> 
> How many Arabs are there in Israel?  How many Arabs visit the Temple Mount each year?
> 
> How many Jews are in Gaza?  The 'West Bank'?  Jordan?  The remaining nations of the ME?  How many Jews are permitted to visit the Temple Mount annually?
> 
> Who is actually destroying culture here?
> 
> Further, let's look at where the Arab Palestinians are.  The vast majority of them are still in Palestine.  They haven't been removed from their country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I brought up different views of other topics that you did not want to address because it goes away from your agenda.
> 
> As for the rest, I'm not in the mood for your semantics right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, give me a break, I have addressed every one of your posts with lengthy responses.
> 
> You wanted to talk about how cleansing people from their homeland removes their culture.  Let's talk about that.
> 
> Why aren't the Jewish people permitted to pray at their own most Holy site?  Why, the few who are permitted to access the holy site, must they remove all cultural symbols?  Why must they make their culture invisible to the usurpers of their holy site?
> 
> Further, you wanted to talk about the return of the Arab Palestinians to their homeland -- including the part under the sovereignty of Israel.  Are you also willing to allow the return of the Jewish people to their homeland in Judea and Samaria?  Why or why not?
> 
> If the Arabs are to return to Israel, perhaps in a one State solution, how will the Jewish culture be preserved in that environment?  What evidences do you have that the Arabs will permit the Jewish culture to exist, let alone thrive?  What guarantees would you give the Jewish people?
> 
> Let's talk about the subject matter.  Or did you just want to find reasons to bash Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, you could have written a lengthy response about the 1789 Super Bowl, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily relevant.
> 
> What you're telling me is either that I stick to the parts of the topic you want to talk about or else I'm off topic. Which would basically mean that I'm not allowed to disagree with the whole premise of your view of the topic.
> *
> Why can't Jews go to their most Holy Site and pray?*
> 
> Well, the Jews came into the region with all guns blazing and kicked out a large number of the local inhabitants and put a lot of them into camps. I'd say the locals are pretty pissed off, wouldn't you say?
> 
> Pissed off enough to try anything to get their own back? And it's not like Israel doesn't provoke at every given opportunity. Palestinian homes being destroyed, new Jewish homes being built all the time.
> 
> If you want to live side by side peacefully, you're going to have to act in a different way. I'm not saying it's possible, the animosity over the last 70 years is immense and might take two generations or more to put right, and certainly the politicians to put it right aren't in power.
> 
> You say I want to talk about the return of Arab Palestinians to their homeland. Er.. I don't ever remember talking about that with you.. so..... what?
> 
> Ah, you think I'm just here to bash Israel. You're just trying to stick my views in a convenient little box that you can understand simply. Sorry dude, my views don't fit in any of your boxes. I'm saying what I'm saying, don't make assumptions about what I'm not saying, it annoys the hell out of me. I've had so many debates on here where people start assuming I think something I don't think.
> 
> I already told you once, I'm not pro-Palestinian, I'm not pro-Israeli. I think the right wing Israeli govt is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes, and I think Hamas is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes.
Click to expand...


Actually that's a good question.

Why are the Muslims allowed to and the Jews not?  And, that started before the conflict - for centuries there was a total ban on non-Muslim worship at the Temple Mount.  And speaking of provoking - I would have to concede that Israel has gone out of the way to AVOID provocations - allowing Muslims complete access to prayer at the Temple Mount while restricting Jewish access.


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I've done some of that already and you rejected it because it doesn't meet with your agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have brought up unrelated topics in order to confuse and conflate the issue.  You have shown absolutely nothing to indicate that Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history -- which is the topic of the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you recall I mentioned the camps, moving Muslims out of Israeli territory etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, and see here you make a subtle shift in your argument.  Its not really about the camps or the loss of culture.  Its about ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Okay.  Gotcha.  Ethnic cleansing is a method of destroying history.  Let's look at that.
> 
> How many Arabs are there in Israel?  How many Arabs visit the Temple Mount each year?
> 
> How many Jews are in Gaza?  The 'West Bank'?  Jordan?  The remaining nations of the ME?  How many Jews are permitted to visit the Temple Mount annually?
> 
> Who is actually destroying culture here?
> 
> Further, let's look at where the Arab Palestinians are.  The vast majority of them are still in Palestine.  They haven't been removed from their country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I brought up different views of other topics that you did not want to address because it goes away from your agenda.
> 
> As for the rest, I'm not in the mood for your semantics right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, give me a break, I have addressed every one of your posts with lengthy responses.
> 
> You wanted to talk about how cleansing people from their homeland removes their culture.  Let's talk about that.
> 
> Why aren't the Jewish people permitted to pray at their own most Holy site?  Why, the few who are permitted to access the holy site, must they remove all cultural symbols?  Why must they make their culture invisible to the usurpers of their holy site?
> 
> Further, you wanted to talk about the return of the Arab Palestinians to their homeland -- including the part under the sovereignty of Israel.  Are you also willing to allow the return of the Jewish people to their homeland in Judea and Samaria?  Why or why not?
> 
> If the Arabs are to return to Israel, perhaps in a one State solution, how will the Jewish culture be preserved in that environment?  What evidences do you have that the Arabs will permit the Jewish culture to exist, let alone thrive?  What guarantees would you give the Jewish people?
> 
> Let's talk about the subject matter.  Or did you just want to find reasons to bash Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, you could have written a lengthy response about the 1789 Super Bowl, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily relevant.
> 
> What you're telling me is either that I stick to the parts of the topic you want to talk about or else I'm off topic. Which would basically mean that I'm not allowed to disagree with the whole premise of your view of the topic.
> 
> Why can't Jews go to their most Holy Site and pray?
> 
> Well, the Jews came into the region with all guns blazing and kicked out a large number of the local inhabitants and put a lot of them into camps. I'd say the locals are pretty pissed off, wouldn't you say?
> 
> Pissed off enough to try anything to get their own back? And it's not like Israel doesn't provoke at every given opportunity. Palestinian homes being destroyed, new Jewish homes being built all the time.
> 
> If you want to live side by side peacefully, you're going to have to act in a different way. I'm not saying it's possible, the animosity over the last 70 years is immense and might take two generations or more to put right, and certainly the politicians to put it right aren't in power.
> 
> You say I want to talk about the return of Arab Palestinians to their homeland. Er.. I don't ever remember talking about that with you.. so..... what?
> 
> Ah, you think I'm just here to bash Israel. You're just trying to stick my views in a convenient little box that you can understand simply. Sorry dude, my views don't fit in any of your boxes. I'm saying what I'm saying, don't make assumptions about what I'm not saying, it annoys the hell out of me. I've had so many debates on here where people start assuming I think something I don't think.
> 
> I already told you once, I'm not pro-Palestinian, I'm not pro-Israeli. I think the right wing Israeli govt is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes, and I think Hamas is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes.
Click to expand...

Simply amazing how many wrong historical facts one can put in so many paragraphs.

But you have done it.

Congratulations.

Is there anything you can provide for the discussion about the destruction of Jewish History?

No?

Not the thread for you, then.

So long


----------



## frigidweirdo

Coyote said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I've done some of that already and you rejected it because it doesn't meet with your agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have brought up unrelated topics in order to confuse and conflate the issue.  You have shown absolutely nothing to indicate that Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history -- which is the topic of the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you recall I mentioned the camps, moving Muslims out of Israeli territory etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, and see here you make a subtle shift in your argument.  Its not really about the camps or the loss of culture.  Its about ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Okay.  Gotcha.  Ethnic cleansing is a method of destroying history.  Let's look at that.
> 
> How many Arabs are there in Israel?  How many Arabs visit the Temple Mount each year?
> 
> How many Jews are in Gaza?  The 'West Bank'?  Jordan?  The remaining nations of the ME?  How many Jews are permitted to visit the Temple Mount annually?
> 
> Who is actually destroying culture here?
> 
> Further, let's look at where the Arab Palestinians are.  The vast majority of them are still in Palestine.  They haven't been removed from their country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I brought up different views of other topics that you did not want to address because it goes away from your agenda.
> 
> As for the rest, I'm not in the mood for your semantics right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, give me a break, I have addressed every one of your posts with lengthy responses.
> 
> You wanted to talk about how cleansing people from their homeland removes their culture.  Let's talk about that.
> 
> Why aren't the Jewish people permitted to pray at their own most Holy site?  Why, the few who are permitted to access the holy site, must they remove all cultural symbols?  Why must they make their culture invisible to the usurpers of their holy site?
> 
> Further, you wanted to talk about the return of the Arab Palestinians to their homeland -- including the part under the sovereignty of Israel.  Are you also willing to allow the return of the Jewish people to their homeland in Judea and Samaria?  Why or why not?
> 
> If the Arabs are to return to Israel, perhaps in a one State solution, how will the Jewish culture be preserved in that environment?  What evidences do you have that the Arabs will permit the Jewish culture to exist, let alone thrive?  What guarantees would you give the Jewish people?
> 
> Let's talk about the subject matter.  Or did you just want to find reasons to bash Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, you could have written a lengthy response about the 1789 Super Bowl, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily relevant.
> 
> What you're telling me is either that I stick to the parts of the topic you want to talk about or else I'm off topic. Which would basically mean that I'm not allowed to disagree with the whole premise of your view of the topic.
> *
> Why can't Jews go to their most Holy Site and pray?*
> 
> Well, the Jews came into the region with all guns blazing and kicked out a large number of the local inhabitants and put a lot of them into camps. I'd say the locals are pretty pissed off, wouldn't you say?
> 
> Pissed off enough to try anything to get their own back? And it's not like Israel doesn't provoke at every given opportunity. Palestinian homes being destroyed, new Jewish homes being built all the time.
> 
> If you want to live side by side peacefully, you're going to have to act in a different way. I'm not saying it's possible, the animosity over the last 70 years is immense and might take two generations or more to put right, and certainly the politicians to put it right aren't in power.
> 
> You say I want to talk about the return of Arab Palestinians to their homeland. Er.. I don't ever remember talking about that with you.. so..... what?
> 
> Ah, you think I'm just here to bash Israel. You're just trying to stick my views in a convenient little box that you can understand simply. Sorry dude, my views don't fit in any of your boxes. I'm saying what I'm saying, don't make assumptions about what I'm not saying, it annoys the hell out of me. I've had so many debates on here where people start assuming I think something I don't think.
> 
> I already told you once, I'm not pro-Palestinian, I'm not pro-Israeli. I think the right wing Israeli govt is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes, and I think Hamas is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually that's a good question.
> 
> Why are the Muslims allowed to and the Jews not?  And, that started before the conflict - for centuries there was a total ban on non-Muslim worship at the Temple Mount.  And speaking of provoking - I would have to concede that Israel has gone out of the way to AVOID provocations - allowing Muslims complete access to prayer at the Temple Mount while restricting Jewish access.
Click to expand...


And maybe they just pick and choose their battles for what they think they can get out of it. They certainly don't shy away from provoking where they think they can get away with it.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I've done some of that already and you rejected it because it doesn't meet with your agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have brought up unrelated topics in order to confuse and conflate the issue.  You have shown absolutely nothing to indicate that Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history -- which is the topic of the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you recall I mentioned the camps, moving Muslims out of Israeli territory etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, and see here you make a subtle shift in your argument.  Its not really about the camps or the loss of culture.  Its about ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Okay.  Gotcha.  Ethnic cleansing is a method of destroying history.  Let's look at that.
> 
> How many Arabs are there in Israel?  How many Arabs visit the Temple Mount each year?
> 
> How many Jews are in Gaza?  The 'West Bank'?  Jordan?  The remaining nations of the ME?  How many Jews are permitted to visit the Temple Mount annually?
> 
> Who is actually destroying culture here?
> 
> Further, let's look at where the Arab Palestinians are.  The vast majority of them are still in Palestine.  They haven't been removed from their country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I brought up different views of other topics that you did not want to address because it goes away from your agenda.
> 
> As for the rest, I'm not in the mood for your semantics right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, give me a break, I have addressed every one of your posts with lengthy responses.
> 
> You wanted to talk about how cleansing people from their homeland removes their culture.  Let's talk about that.
> 
> Why aren't the Jewish people permitted to pray at their own most Holy site?  Why, the few who are permitted to access the holy site, must they remove all cultural symbols?  Why must they make their culture invisible to the usurpers of their holy site?
> 
> Further, you wanted to talk about the return of the Arab Palestinians to their homeland -- including the part under the sovereignty of Israel.  Are you also willing to allow the return of the Jewish people to their homeland in Judea and Samaria?  Why or why not?
> 
> If the Arabs are to return to Israel, perhaps in a one State solution, how will the Jewish culture be preserved in that environment?  What evidences do you have that the Arabs will permit the Jewish culture to exist, let alone thrive?  What guarantees would you give the Jewish people?
> 
> Let's talk about the subject matter.  Or did you just want to find reasons to bash Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, you could have written a lengthy response about the 1789 Super Bowl, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily relevant.
> 
> What you're telling me is either that I stick to the parts of the topic you want to talk about or else I'm off topic. Which would basically mean that I'm not allowed to disagree with the whole premise of your view of the topic.
> 
> Why can't Jews go to their most Holy Site and pray?
> 
> Well, the Jews came into the region with all guns blazing and kicked out a large number of the local inhabitants and put a lot of them into camps. I'd say the locals are pretty pissed off, wouldn't you say?
> 
> Pissed off enough to try anything to get their own back? And it's not like Israel doesn't provoke at every given opportunity. Palestinian homes being destroyed, new Jewish homes being built all the time.
> 
> If you want to live side by side peacefully, you're going to have to act in a different way. I'm not saying it's possible, the animosity over the last 70 years is immense and might take two generations or more to put right, and certainly the politicians to put it right aren't in power.
> 
> You say I want to talk about the return of Arab Palestinians to their homeland. Er.. I don't ever remember talking about that with you.. so..... what?
> 
> Ah, you think I'm just here to bash Israel. You're just trying to stick my views in a convenient little box that you can understand simply. Sorry dude, my views don't fit in any of your boxes. I'm saying what I'm saying, don't make assumptions about what I'm not saying, it annoys the hell out of me. I've had so many debates on here where people start assuming I think something I don't think.
> 
> I already told you once, I'm not pro-Palestinian, I'm not pro-Israeli. I think the right wing Israeli govt is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes, and I think Hamas is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Simply amazing how many wrong historical facts one can put in so many paragraphs.
> 
> But you have done it.
> 
> Congratulations.
> 
> Is there anything you can provide for the discussion about the destruction of Jewish History?
> 
> No?
> 
> Not the thread for you, then.
> 
> So long
Click to expand...


So what historical facts are wrong then? 

No, I doubt any thread where there are a bunch of people who make it their goal to prevent the topic from going in a direction they're not happy with is my kind of thread. You lot want to keep slapping each other's backs and telling yourself how right you are because no one can tell you have wrong you are.


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have brought up unrelated topics in order to confuse and conflate the issue.  You have shown absolutely nothing to indicate that Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history -- which is the topic of the thread.
> 
> Ah, and see here you make a subtle shift in your argument.  Its not really about the camps or the loss of culture.  Its about ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Okay.  Gotcha.  Ethnic cleansing is a method of destroying history.  Let's look at that.
> 
> How many Arabs are there in Israel?  How many Arabs visit the Temple Mount each year?
> 
> How many Jews are in Gaza?  The 'West Bank'?  Jordan?  The remaining nations of the ME?  How many Jews are permitted to visit the Temple Mount annually?
> 
> Who is actually destroying culture here?
> 
> Further, let's look at where the Arab Palestinians are.  The vast majority of them are still in Palestine.  They haven't been removed from their country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I brought up different views of other topics that you did not want to address because it goes away from your agenda.
> 
> As for the rest, I'm not in the mood for your semantics right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, give me a break, I have addressed every one of your posts with lengthy responses.
> 
> You wanted to talk about how cleansing people from their homeland removes their culture.  Let's talk about that.
> 
> Why aren't the Jewish people permitted to pray at their own most Holy site?  Why, the few who are permitted to access the holy site, must they remove all cultural symbols?  Why must they make their culture invisible to the usurpers of their holy site?
> 
> Further, you wanted to talk about the return of the Arab Palestinians to their homeland -- including the part under the sovereignty of Israel.  Are you also willing to allow the return of the Jewish people to their homeland in Judea and Samaria?  Why or why not?
> 
> If the Arabs are to return to Israel, perhaps in a one State solution, how will the Jewish culture be preserved in that environment?  What evidences do you have that the Arabs will permit the Jewish culture to exist, let alone thrive?  What guarantees would you give the Jewish people?
> 
> Let's talk about the subject matter.  Or did you just want to find reasons to bash Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, you could have written a lengthy response about the 1789 Super Bowl, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily relevant.
> 
> What you're telling me is either that I stick to the parts of the topic you want to talk about or else I'm off topic. Which would basically mean that I'm not allowed to disagree with the whole premise of your view of the topic.
> *
> Why can't Jews go to their most Holy Site and pray?*
> 
> Well, the Jews came into the region with all guns blazing and kicked out a large number of the local inhabitants and put a lot of them into camps. I'd say the locals are pretty pissed off, wouldn't you say?
> 
> Pissed off enough to try anything to get their own back? And it's not like Israel doesn't provoke at every given opportunity. Palestinian homes being destroyed, new Jewish homes being built all the time.
> 
> If you want to live side by side peacefully, you're going to have to act in a different way. I'm not saying it's possible, the animosity over the last 70 years is immense and might take two generations or more to put right, and certainly the politicians to put it right aren't in power.
> 
> You say I want to talk about the return of Arab Palestinians to their homeland. Er.. I don't ever remember talking about that with you.. so..... what?
> 
> Ah, you think I'm just here to bash Israel. You're just trying to stick my views in a convenient little box that you can understand simply. Sorry dude, my views don't fit in any of your boxes. I'm saying what I'm saying, don't make assumptions about what I'm not saying, it annoys the hell out of me. I've had so many debates on here where people start assuming I think something I don't think.
> 
> I already told you once, I'm not pro-Palestinian, I'm not pro-Israeli. I think the right wing Israeli govt is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes, and I think Hamas is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually that's a good question.
> 
> Why are the Muslims allowed to and the Jews not?  And, that started before the conflict - for centuries there was a total ban on non-Muslim worship at the Temple Mount.  And speaking of provoking - I would have to concede that Israel has gone out of the way to AVOID provocations - allowing Muslims complete access to prayer at the Temple Mount while restricting Jewish access.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And maybe they just pick and choose their battles for what they think they can get out of it. They certainly don't shy away from provoking where they think they can get away with it.
Click to expand...

And how does this paragraph of yours has anything to do with the thread's topic?


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I brought up different views of other topics that you did not want to address because it goes away from your agenda.
> 
> As for the rest, I'm not in the mood for your semantics right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, give me a break, I have addressed every one of your posts with lengthy responses.
> 
> You wanted to talk about how cleansing people from their homeland removes their culture.  Let's talk about that.
> 
> Why aren't the Jewish people permitted to pray at their own most Holy site?  Why, the few who are permitted to access the holy site, must they remove all cultural symbols?  Why must they make their culture invisible to the usurpers of their holy site?
> 
> Further, you wanted to talk about the return of the Arab Palestinians to their homeland -- including the part under the sovereignty of Israel.  Are you also willing to allow the return of the Jewish people to their homeland in Judea and Samaria?  Why or why not?
> 
> If the Arabs are to return to Israel, perhaps in a one State solution, how will the Jewish culture be preserved in that environment?  What evidences do you have that the Arabs will permit the Jewish culture to exist, let alone thrive?  What guarantees would you give the Jewish people?
> 
> Let's talk about the subject matter.  Or did you just want to find reasons to bash Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, you could have written a lengthy response about the 1789 Super Bowl, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily relevant.
> 
> What you're telling me is either that I stick to the parts of the topic you want to talk about or else I'm off topic. Which would basically mean that I'm not allowed to disagree with the whole premise of your view of the topic.
> *
> Why can't Jews go to their most Holy Site and pray?*
> 
> Well, the Jews came into the region with all guns blazing and kicked out a large number of the local inhabitants and put a lot of them into camps. I'd say the locals are pretty pissed off, wouldn't you say?
> 
> Pissed off enough to try anything to get their own back? And it's not like Israel doesn't provoke at every given opportunity. Palestinian homes being destroyed, new Jewish homes being built all the time.
> 
> If you want to live side by side peacefully, you're going to have to act in a different way. I'm not saying it's possible, the animosity over the last 70 years is immense and might take two generations or more to put right, and certainly the politicians to put it right aren't in power.
> 
> You say I want to talk about the return of Arab Palestinians to their homeland. Er.. I don't ever remember talking about that with you.. so..... what?
> 
> Ah, you think I'm just here to bash Israel. You're just trying to stick my views in a convenient little box that you can understand simply. Sorry dude, my views don't fit in any of your boxes. I'm saying what I'm saying, don't make assumptions about what I'm not saying, it annoys the hell out of me. I've had so many debates on here where people start assuming I think something I don't think.
> 
> I already told you once, I'm not pro-Palestinian, I'm not pro-Israeli. I think the right wing Israeli govt is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes, and I think Hamas is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually that's a good question.
> 
> Why are the Muslims allowed to and the Jews not?  And, that started before the conflict - for centuries there was a total ban on non-Muslim worship at the Temple Mount.  And speaking of provoking - I would have to concede that Israel has gone out of the way to AVOID provocations - allowing Muslims complete access to prayer at the Temple Mount while restricting Jewish access.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And maybe they just pick and choose their battles for what they think they can get out of it. They certainly don't shy away from provoking where they think they can get away with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And how does this paragraph of yours has anything to do with the thread's topic?
Click to expand...


Ah, more deflecting. What does YOU post have to do with anything?


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have brought up unrelated topics in order to confuse and conflate the issue.  You have shown absolutely nothing to indicate that Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history -- which is the topic of the thread.
> 
> Ah, and see here you make a subtle shift in your argument.  Its not really about the camps or the loss of culture.  Its about ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Okay.  Gotcha.  Ethnic cleansing is a method of destroying history.  Let's look at that.
> 
> How many Arabs are there in Israel?  How many Arabs visit the Temple Mount each year?
> 
> How many Jews are in Gaza?  The 'West Bank'?  Jordan?  The remaining nations of the ME?  How many Jews are permitted to visit the Temple Mount annually?
> 
> Who is actually destroying culture here?
> 
> Further, let's look at where the Arab Palestinians are.  The vast majority of them are still in Palestine.  They haven't been removed from their country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I brought up different views of other topics that you did not want to address because it goes away from your agenda.
> 
> As for the rest, I'm not in the mood for your semantics right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, give me a break, I have addressed every one of your posts with lengthy responses.
> 
> You wanted to talk about how cleansing people from their homeland removes their culture.  Let's talk about that.
> 
> Why aren't the Jewish people permitted to pray at their own most Holy site?  Why, the few who are permitted to access the holy site, must they remove all cultural symbols?  Why must they make their culture invisible to the usurpers of their holy site?
> 
> Further, you wanted to talk about the return of the Arab Palestinians to their homeland -- including the part under the sovereignty of Israel.  Are you also willing to allow the return of the Jewish people to their homeland in Judea and Samaria?  Why or why not?
> 
> If the Arabs are to return to Israel, perhaps in a one State solution, how will the Jewish culture be preserved in that environment?  What evidences do you have that the Arabs will permit the Jewish culture to exist, let alone thrive?  What guarantees would you give the Jewish people?
> 
> Let's talk about the subject matter.  Or did you just want to find reasons to bash Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, you could have written a lengthy response about the 1789 Super Bowl, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily relevant.
> 
> What you're telling me is either that I stick to the parts of the topic you want to talk about or else I'm off topic. Which would basically mean that I'm not allowed to disagree with the whole premise of your view of the topic.
> 
> Why can't Jews go to their most Holy Site and pray?
> 
> Well, the Jews came into the region with all guns blazing and kicked out a large number of the local inhabitants and put a lot of them into camps. I'd say the locals are pretty pissed off, wouldn't you say?
> 
> Pissed off enough to try anything to get their own back? And it's not like Israel doesn't provoke at every given opportunity. Palestinian homes being destroyed, new Jewish homes being built all the time.
> 
> If you want to live side by side peacefully, you're going to have to act in a different way. I'm not saying it's possible, the animosity over the last 70 years is immense and might take two generations or more to put right, and certainly the politicians to put it right aren't in power.
> 
> You say I want to talk about the return of Arab Palestinians to their homeland. Er.. I don't ever remember talking about that with you.. so..... what?
> 
> Ah, you think I'm just here to bash Israel. You're just trying to stick my views in a convenient little box that you can understand simply. Sorry dude, my views don't fit in any of your boxes. I'm saying what I'm saying, don't make assumptions about what I'm not saying, it annoys the hell out of me. I've had so many debates on here where people start assuming I think something I don't think.
> 
> I already told you once, I'm not pro-Palestinian, I'm not pro-Israeli. I think the right wing Israeli govt is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes, and I think Hamas is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Simply amazing how many wrong historical facts one can put in so many paragraphs.
> 
> But you have done it.
> 
> Congratulations.
> 
> Is there anything you can provide for the discussion about the destruction of Jewish History?
> 
> No?
> 
> Not the thread for you, then.
> 
> So long
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what historical facts are wrong then?
> 
> No, I doubt any thread where there are a bunch of people who make it their goal to prevent the topic from going in a direction they're not happy with is my kind of thread. You lot want to keep slapping each other's backs and telling yourself how right you are because no one can tell you have wrong you are.
Click to expand...

Are you telling all of us that Theodore Herzl and the Zionists came into the region of Palestine with "guns blazing" ?

Do you have the source for that?

How many Jews came into the region of Palestine before or after 1892 with the "guns blazing" ?


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, give me a break, I have addressed every one of your posts with lengthy responses.
> 
> You wanted to talk about how cleansing people from their homeland removes their culture.  Let's talk about that.
> 
> Why aren't the Jewish people permitted to pray at their own most Holy site?  Why, the few who are permitted to access the holy site, must they remove all cultural symbols?  Why must they make their culture invisible to the usurpers of their holy site?
> 
> Further, you wanted to talk about the return of the Arab Palestinians to their homeland -- including the part under the sovereignty of Israel.  Are you also willing to allow the return of the Jewish people to their homeland in Judea and Samaria?  Why or why not?
> 
> If the Arabs are to return to Israel, perhaps in a one State solution, how will the Jewish culture be preserved in that environment?  What evidences do you have that the Arabs will permit the Jewish culture to exist, let alone thrive?  What guarantees would you give the Jewish people?
> 
> Let's talk about the subject matter.  Or did you just want to find reasons to bash Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you could have written a lengthy response about the 1789 Super Bowl, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily relevant.
> 
> What you're telling me is either that I stick to the parts of the topic you want to talk about or else I'm off topic. Which would basically mean that I'm not allowed to disagree with the whole premise of your view of the topic.
> *
> Why can't Jews go to their most Holy Site and pray?*
> 
> Well, the Jews came into the region with all guns blazing and kicked out a large number of the local inhabitants and put a lot of them into camps. I'd say the locals are pretty pissed off, wouldn't you say?
> 
> Pissed off enough to try anything to get their own back? And it's not like Israel doesn't provoke at every given opportunity. Palestinian homes being destroyed, new Jewish homes being built all the time.
> 
> If you want to live side by side peacefully, you're going to have to act in a different way. I'm not saying it's possible, the animosity over the last 70 years is immense and might take two generations or more to put right, and certainly the politicians to put it right aren't in power.
> 
> You say I want to talk about the return of Arab Palestinians to their homeland. Er.. I don't ever remember talking about that with you.. so..... what?
> 
> Ah, you think I'm just here to bash Israel. You're just trying to stick my views in a convenient little box that you can understand simply. Sorry dude, my views don't fit in any of your boxes. I'm saying what I'm saying, don't make assumptions about what I'm not saying, it annoys the hell out of me. I've had so many debates on here where people start assuming I think something I don't think.
> 
> I already told you once, I'm not pro-Palestinian, I'm not pro-Israeli. I think the right wing Israeli govt is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes, and I think Hamas is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually that's a good question.
> 
> Why are the Muslims allowed to and the Jews not?  And, that started before the conflict - for centuries there was a total ban on non-Muslim worship at the Temple Mount.  And speaking of provoking - I would have to concede that Israel has gone out of the way to AVOID provocations - allowing Muslims complete access to prayer at the Temple Mount while restricting Jewish access.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And maybe they just pick and choose their battles for what they think they can get out of it. They certainly don't shy away from provoking where they think they can get away with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And how does this paragraph of yours has anything to do with the thread's topic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, more deflecting. What does YOU post have to do with anything?
Click to expand...

While you are at it, give us a list of Muslim and Christian homes, business and holy sites the Jews destroyed from 1892 until 1948.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I brought up different views of other topics that you did not want to address because it goes away from your agenda.
> 
> As for the rest, I'm not in the mood for your semantics right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, give me a break, I have addressed every one of your posts with lengthy responses.
> 
> You wanted to talk about how cleansing people from their homeland removes their culture.  Let's talk about that.
> 
> Why aren't the Jewish people permitted to pray at their own most Holy site?  Why, the few who are permitted to access the holy site, must they remove all cultural symbols?  Why must they make their culture invisible to the usurpers of their holy site?
> 
> Further, you wanted to talk about the return of the Arab Palestinians to their homeland -- including the part under the sovereignty of Israel.  Are you also willing to allow the return of the Jewish people to their homeland in Judea and Samaria?  Why or why not?
> 
> If the Arabs are to return to Israel, perhaps in a one State solution, how will the Jewish culture be preserved in that environment?  What evidences do you have that the Arabs will permit the Jewish culture to exist, let alone thrive?  What guarantees would you give the Jewish people?
> 
> Let's talk about the subject matter.  Or did you just want to find reasons to bash Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, you could have written a lengthy response about the 1789 Super Bowl, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily relevant.
> 
> What you're telling me is either that I stick to the parts of the topic you want to talk about or else I'm off topic. Which would basically mean that I'm not allowed to disagree with the whole premise of your view of the topic.
> 
> Why can't Jews go to their most Holy Site and pray?
> 
> Well, the Jews came into the region with all guns blazing and kicked out a large number of the local inhabitants and put a lot of them into camps. I'd say the locals are pretty pissed off, wouldn't you say?
> 
> Pissed off enough to try anything to get their own back? And it's not like Israel doesn't provoke at every given opportunity. Palestinian homes being destroyed, new Jewish homes being built all the time.
> 
> If you want to live side by side peacefully, you're going to have to act in a different way. I'm not saying it's possible, the animosity over the last 70 years is immense and might take two generations or more to put right, and certainly the politicians to put it right aren't in power.
> 
> You say I want to talk about the return of Arab Palestinians to their homeland. Er.. I don't ever remember talking about that with you.. so..... what?
> 
> Ah, you think I'm just here to bash Israel. You're just trying to stick my views in a convenient little box that you can understand simply. Sorry dude, my views don't fit in any of your boxes. I'm saying what I'm saying, don't make assumptions about what I'm not saying, it annoys the hell out of me. I've had so many debates on here where people start assuming I think something I don't think.
> 
> I already told you once, I'm not pro-Palestinian, I'm not pro-Israeli. I think the right wing Israeli govt is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes, and I think Hamas is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Simply amazing how many wrong historical facts one can put in so many paragraphs.
> 
> But you have done it.
> 
> Congratulations.
> 
> Is there anything you can provide for the discussion about the destruction of Jewish History?
> 
> No?
> 
> Not the thread for you, then.
> 
> So long
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what historical facts are wrong then?
> 
> No, I doubt any thread where there are a bunch of people who make it their goal to prevent the topic from going in a direction they're not happy with is my kind of thread. You lot want to keep slapping each other's backs and telling yourself how right you are because no one can tell you have wrong you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you telling all of us that Theodore Herzl and the Zionists came into the region of Palestine with "guns blazing" ?
> 
> Do you have the source for that?
> 
> How many Jews came into the region of Palestine before or after 1892 with the "guns blazing" ?
Click to expand...


Sigh.... you're really on the offensive now, aren't you.

Milestones: 1945–1952 - Office of the Historian

"
*The Arab-Israeli War of 1948*"

Israel was founded on 14th May 1948 and the fighting started almost immediately. True or not true?


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you could have written a lengthy response about the 1789 Super Bowl, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily relevant.
> 
> What you're telling me is either that I stick to the parts of the topic you want to talk about or else I'm off topic. Which would basically mean that I'm not allowed to disagree with the whole premise of your view of the topic.
> *
> Why can't Jews go to their most Holy Site and pray?*
> 
> Well, the Jews came into the region with all guns blazing and kicked out a large number of the local inhabitants and put a lot of them into camps. I'd say the locals are pretty pissed off, wouldn't you say?
> 
> Pissed off enough to try anything to get their own back? And it's not like Israel doesn't provoke at every given opportunity. Palestinian homes being destroyed, new Jewish homes being built all the time.
> 
> If you want to live side by side peacefully, you're going to have to act in a different way. I'm not saying it's possible, the animosity over the last 70 years is immense and might take two generations or more to put right, and certainly the politicians to put it right aren't in power.
> 
> You say I want to talk about the return of Arab Palestinians to their homeland. Er.. I don't ever remember talking about that with you.. so..... what?
> 
> Ah, you think I'm just here to bash Israel. You're just trying to stick my views in a convenient little box that you can understand simply. Sorry dude, my views don't fit in any of your boxes. I'm saying what I'm saying, don't make assumptions about what I'm not saying, it annoys the hell out of me. I've had so many debates on here where people start assuming I think something I don't think.
> 
> I already told you once, I'm not pro-Palestinian, I'm not pro-Israeli. I think the right wing Israeli govt is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes, and I think Hamas is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually that's a good question.
> 
> Why are the Muslims allowed to and the Jews not?  And, that started before the conflict - for centuries there was a total ban on non-Muslim worship at the Temple Mount.  And speaking of provoking - I would have to concede that Israel has gone out of the way to AVOID provocations - allowing Muslims complete access to prayer at the Temple Mount while restricting Jewish access.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And maybe they just pick and choose their battles for what they think they can get out of it. They certainly don't shy away from provoking where they think they can get away with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And how does this paragraph of yours has anything to do with the thread's topic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, more deflecting. What does YOU post have to do with anything?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While you are at it, give us a list of Muslim and Christian homes, business and holy sites the Jews destroyed from 1892 until 1948.
Click to expand...


Why?


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, give me a break, I have addressed every one of your posts with lengthy responses.
> 
> You wanted to talk about how cleansing people from their homeland removes their culture.  Let's talk about that.
> 
> Why aren't the Jewish people permitted to pray at their own most Holy site?  Why, the few who are permitted to access the holy site, must they remove all cultural symbols?  Why must they make their culture invisible to the usurpers of their holy site?
> 
> Further, you wanted to talk about the return of the Arab Palestinians to their homeland -- including the part under the sovereignty of Israel.  Are you also willing to allow the return of the Jewish people to their homeland in Judea and Samaria?  Why or why not?
> 
> If the Arabs are to return to Israel, perhaps in a one State solution, how will the Jewish culture be preserved in that environment?  What evidences do you have that the Arabs will permit the Jewish culture to exist, let alone thrive?  What guarantees would you give the Jewish people?
> 
> Let's talk about the subject matter.  Or did you just want to find reasons to bash Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you could have written a lengthy response about the 1789 Super Bowl, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily relevant.
> 
> What you're telling me is either that I stick to the parts of the topic you want to talk about or else I'm off topic. Which would basically mean that I'm not allowed to disagree with the whole premise of your view of the topic.
> 
> Why can't Jews go to their most Holy Site and pray?
> 
> Well, the Jews came into the region with all guns blazing and kicked out a large number of the local inhabitants and put a lot of them into camps. I'd say the locals are pretty pissed off, wouldn't you say?
> 
> Pissed off enough to try anything to get their own back? And it's not like Israel doesn't provoke at every given opportunity. Palestinian homes being destroyed, new Jewish homes being built all the time.
> 
> If you want to live side by side peacefully, you're going to have to act in a different way. I'm not saying it's possible, the animosity over the last 70 years is immense and might take two generations or more to put right, and certainly the politicians to put it right aren't in power.
> 
> You say I want to talk about the return of Arab Palestinians to their homeland. Er.. I don't ever remember talking about that with you.. so..... what?
> 
> Ah, you think I'm just here to bash Israel. You're just trying to stick my views in a convenient little box that you can understand simply. Sorry dude, my views don't fit in any of your boxes. I'm saying what I'm saying, don't make assumptions about what I'm not saying, it annoys the hell out of me. I've had so many debates on here where people start assuming I think something I don't think.
> 
> I already told you once, I'm not pro-Palestinian, I'm not pro-Israeli. I think the right wing Israeli govt is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes, and I think Hamas is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Simply amazing how many wrong historical facts one can put in so many paragraphs.
> 
> But you have done it.
> 
> Congratulations.
> 
> Is there anything you can provide for the discussion about the destruction of Jewish History?
> 
> No?
> 
> Not the thread for you, then.
> 
> So long
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what historical facts are wrong then?
> 
> No, I doubt any thread where there are a bunch of people who make it their goal to prevent the topic from going in a direction they're not happy with is my kind of thread. You lot want to keep slapping each other's backs and telling yourself how right you are because no one can tell you have wrong you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you telling all of us that Theodore Herzl and the Zionists came into the region of Palestine with "guns blazing" ?
> 
> Do you have the source for that?
> 
> How many Jews came into the region of Palestine before or after 1892 with the "guns blazing" ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sigh.... you're really on the offensive now, aren't you.
> 
> Milestones: 1945–1952 - Office of the Historian
> 
> "
> *The Arab-Israeli War of 1948*"
> 
> Israel was founded on 14th May 1948 and the fighting started almost immediately. True or not true?
Click to expand...

The riots and attacks on Jews started much earlier.
Including the one on the Jews in Iraq, where the Palestinian Leader bothered to go in order to incite Iraqi Muslims against the Jews.

Do the research.

And I was referring to any time before 1947, before the War of Independence.

Lots happened before that.......


----------



## abi

frigidweirdo said:


> Israel was founded on 14th May 1948 and the fighting started almost immediately. True or not true?


False. Jewish terrorists started blowing up banks, buses and business in the prior decade. These terrorists actually formed Israel's first government. There are some brutally honest accounts of this from former British soldiers who went from being totally on their side, after WWII, to seeing what they were doing and realizing how dangerous these people were from the start. By the time the Aabs fought back in '48, it was too late and they were not capable of dealing with the British and French forces who fought for the zionists.


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually that's a good question.
> 
> Why are the Muslims allowed to and the Jews not?  And, that started before the conflict - for centuries there was a total ban on non-Muslim worship at the Temple Mount.  And speaking of provoking - I would have to concede that Israel has gone out of the way to AVOID provocations - allowing Muslims complete access to prayer at the Temple Mount while restricting Jewish access.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And maybe they just pick and choose their battles for what they think they can get out of it. They certainly don't shy away from provoking where they think they can get away with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And how does this paragraph of yours has anything to do with the thread's topic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, more deflecting. What does YOU post have to do with anything?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While you are at it, give us a list of Muslim and Christian homes, business and holy sites the Jews destroyed from 1892 until 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?
Click to expand...

Because I would like to see how many Arabs the Jews murdered before 1948.
How many times they went "guns blazing" against Christians and Muslims before 1948, before all of those Muslims ended up leaving or expelled because of the war after May 1948.

If the Jews were "gun blazing" in 1948, what were they doing between 1892 and 1948?


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you could have written a lengthy response about the 1789 Super Bowl, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily relevant.
> 
> What you're telling me is either that I stick to the parts of the topic you want to talk about or else I'm off topic. Which would basically mean that I'm not allowed to disagree with the whole premise of your view of the topic.
> 
> Why can't Jews go to their most Holy Site and pray?
> 
> Well, the Jews came into the region with all guns blazing and kicked out a large number of the local inhabitants and put a lot of them into camps. I'd say the locals are pretty pissed off, wouldn't you say?
> 
> Pissed off enough to try anything to get their own back? And it's not like Israel doesn't provoke at every given opportunity. Palestinian homes being destroyed, new Jewish homes being built all the time.
> 
> If you want to live side by side peacefully, you're going to have to act in a different way. I'm not saying it's possible, the animosity over the last 70 years is immense and might take two generations or more to put right, and certainly the politicians to put it right aren't in power.
> 
> You say I want to talk about the return of Arab Palestinians to their homeland. Er.. I don't ever remember talking about that with you.. so..... what?
> 
> Ah, you think I'm just here to bash Israel. You're just trying to stick my views in a convenient little box that you can understand simply. Sorry dude, my views don't fit in any of your boxes. I'm saying what I'm saying, don't make assumptions about what I'm not saying, it annoys the hell out of me. I've had so many debates on here where people start assuming I think something I don't think.
> 
> I already told you once, I'm not pro-Palestinian, I'm not pro-Israeli. I think the right wing Israeli govt is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes, and I think Hamas is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes.
> 
> 
> 
> Simply amazing how many wrong historical facts one can put in so many paragraphs.
> 
> But you have done it.
> 
> Congratulations.
> 
> Is there anything you can provide for the discussion about the destruction of Jewish History?
> 
> No?
> 
> Not the thread for you, then.
> 
> So long
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what historical facts are wrong then?
> 
> No, I doubt any thread where there are a bunch of people who make it their goal to prevent the topic from going in a direction they're not happy with is my kind of thread. You lot want to keep slapping each other's backs and telling yourself how right you are because no one can tell you have wrong you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you telling all of us that Theodore Herzl and the Zionists came into the region of Palestine with "guns blazing" ?
> 
> Do you have the source for that?
> 
> How many Jews came into the region of Palestine before or after 1892 with the "guns blazing" ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sigh.... you're really on the offensive now, aren't you.
> 
> Milestones: 1945–1952 - Office of the Historian
> 
> "
> *The Arab-Israeli War of 1948*"
> 
> Israel was founded on 14th May 1948 and the fighting started almost immediately. True or not true?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The riots and attacks on Jews started much earlier.
> Including the one on the Jews in Iraq, where the Palestinian Leader bothered to go in order to incite Iraqi Muslims against the Jews.
> 
> Do the research.
> 
> And I was referring to any time before 1947, before the War of Independence.
> 
> Lots happened before that.......
Click to expand...


Yes, I know. That doesn't mean that the Jews didn't go in with guns blazing, does it? 

They had to fight. It's pretty obvious they'd have to fight and the British could have seen it coming a long way off, but the British didn't care. 

You set up your tent in the middle of a bear cave, and then get pissy when the bears start to grumble.... well.....


----------



## frigidweirdo

abi said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was founded on 14th May 1948 and the fighting started almost immediately. True or not true?
> 
> 
> 
> False. Jewish terrorists started blowing up banks, buses and business in the prior decade. These terrorists actually formed Israel's first government. There are some brutally honest accounts of this from former British soldiers who went from being totally on their side, after WWII, to seeing what they were doing and realizing how dangerous these people were from the start. By the time the Aabs fought back in '48, it was too late and they were not capable of dealing with the British and French forces who fought for the zionists.
Click to expand...


So, did Israel start fighting before it became Israel?


----------



## Sixties Fan

abi said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was founded on 14th May 1948 and the fighting started almost immediately. True or not true?
> 
> 
> 
> False. Jewish terrorists started blowing up banks, buses and business in the prior decade. These terrorists actually formed Israel's first government. There are some brutally honest accounts of this from former British soldiers who went from being totally on their side, after WWII, to seeing what they were doing and realizing how dangerous these people were from the start. By the time the Aabs fought back in '48, it was too late and they were not capable of dealing with the British and French forces who fought for the zionists.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the rant.
The British and French forces fought for the zionists, you say.

That would be news to them.

Thanks for the clear example of destruction of Jewish history.
And the right you seem to think you have to destroy that history.


----------



## abi

frigidweirdo said:


> So, did Israel start fighting before it became Israel?


The zionist terrorists were already operating there for over a decade.


----------



## fncceo

frigidweirdo said:


> That doesn't mean that the Jews didn't go in with guns blazing, does it?



I love that image.


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Simply amazing how many wrong historical facts one can put in so many paragraphs.
> 
> But you have done it.
> 
> Congratulations.
> 
> Is there anything you can provide for the discussion about the destruction of Jewish History?
> 
> No?
> 
> Not the thread for you, then.
> 
> So long
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what historical facts are wrong then?
> 
> No, I doubt any thread where there are a bunch of people who make it their goal to prevent the topic from going in a direction they're not happy with is my kind of thread. You lot want to keep slapping each other's backs and telling yourself how right you are because no one can tell you have wrong you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you telling all of us that Theodore Herzl and the Zionists came into the region of Palestine with "guns blazing" ?
> 
> Do you have the source for that?
> 
> How many Jews came into the region of Palestine before or after 1892 with the "guns blazing" ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sigh.... you're really on the offensive now, aren't you.
> 
> Milestones: 1945–1952 - Office of the Historian
> 
> "
> *The Arab-Israeli War of 1948*"
> 
> Israel was founded on 14th May 1948 and the fighting started almost immediately. True or not true?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The riots and attacks on Jews started much earlier.
> Including the one on the Jews in Iraq, where the Palestinian Leader bothered to go in order to incite Iraqi Muslims against the Jews.
> 
> Do the research.
> 
> And I was referring to any time before 1947, before the War of Independence.
> 
> Lots happened before that.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I know. That doesn't mean that the Jews didn't go in with guns blazing, does it?
> 
> They had to fight. It's pretty obvious they'd have to fight and the British could have seen it coming a long way off, but the British didn't care.
> 
> You set up your tent in the middle of a bear cave, and then get pissy when the bears start to grumble.... well.....
Click to expand...

What does "guns blazing" mean?

This is not a western or gangster movie.

If you do not have specifics about any of it then why post about it?

You clearly do not know what the Mandate for Palestine was, and I will not be the one to inform you about it here.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> And maybe they just pick and choose their battles for what they think they can get out of it. They certainly don't shy away from provoking where they think they can get away with it.
> 
> 
> 
> And how does this paragraph of yours has anything to do with the thread's topic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, more deflecting. What does YOU post have to do with anything?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While you are at it, give us a list of Muslim and Christian homes, business and holy sites the Jews destroyed from 1892 until 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because I would like to see how many Arabs the Jews murdered before 1948.
> How many times they went "guns blazing" against Christians and Muslims before 1948, before all of those Muslims ended up leaving or expelled because of the war after May 1948.
> 
> If the Jews were "gun blazing" in 1948, what were they doing between 1892 and 1948?
Click to expand...


Then go look it up for yourself. What, am I your fucking slave or something? 

Hey, just go look up the Superbowl scores between 435BC and 134AD please. I just wanna know. 

Look. You seem to think I'm one of these people who will complete ignore the facts to make a narrative that is convenient for their agenda. I'm not.

I'm not pro-Israeli or pro-Jewish, even if I worked for some of the richest Jews in the US at one time in my life.
I'm not pro-Palestinian or pro-Muslims either, even if I prefer Falafel to Kosher food. 

I think religion is a pretty poor excuse for hiding from reality, and as power tool.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was founded on 14th May 1948 and the fighting started almost immediately. True or not true?
> 
> 
> 
> False. Jewish terrorists started blowing up banks, buses and business in the prior decade. These terrorists actually formed Israel's first government. There are some brutally honest accounts of this from former British soldiers who went from being totally on their side, after WWII, to seeing what they were doing and realizing how dangerous these people were from the start. By the time the Aabs fought back in '48, it was too late and they were not capable of dealing with the British and French forces who fought for the zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the rant.
> The British and French forces fought for the zionists, you say.
> 
> That would be news to them.
> 
> Thanks for the clear example of destruction of Jewish history.
> And the right you seem to think you have to destroy that history.
Click to expand...


Well they fought more for the zionists than for anyone else. Why? Well they were helping to create a Jewish state.


----------



## Sixties Fan

abi said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, did Israel start fighting before it became Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> The zionist terrorists were already operating there for over a decade.
Click to expand...

Wrong thread.  Abi is on a roll today.
What happened in the world today to bring about this endless rants and in so many threads?
Must be pretty bad for you to be off topic on so many threads today.


----------



## fncceo

frigidweirdo said:


> I'm not pro-Israeli or pro-Jewish, even if I worked for some of the richest Jews in the US at one time in my life.
> I'm not pro-Palestinian or pro-Muslims either, even if I prefer Falafel to Kosher food.



Wow.... just, wow.


----------



## abi

Sixties Fan said:


> Wrong thread. Abi is on a roll today.
> What happened in the world today to bring about this endless rants and in so many threads?
> Must be pretty bad for you to be off topic on so many threads today.


Fantastic irony as you are destroying Jewish history on your fake thread about it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was founded on 14th May 1948 and the fighting started almost immediately. True or not true?
> 
> 
> 
> False. Jewish terrorists started blowing up banks, buses and business in the prior decade. These terrorists actually formed Israel's first government. There are some brutally honest accounts of this from former British soldiers who went from being totally on their side, after WWII, to seeing what they were doing and realizing how dangerous these people were from the start. By the time the Aabs fought back in '48, it was too late and they were not capable of dealing with the British and French forces who fought for the zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the rant.
> The British and French forces fought for the zionists, you say.
> 
> That would be news to them.
> 
> Thanks for the clear example of destruction of Jewish history.
> And the right you seem to think you have to destroy that history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well they fought more for the zionists than for anyone else. Why? Well they were helping to create a Jewish state.
Click to expand...

The French were not involved in the Mandate for Palestine.  They had two other mandates to deal with.

And what is wrong with recreating the Jewish State on the ancient Jewish homeland?

Did it become a crime at some point in history, especially as the Ottomans lost that whole territory and more?


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what historical facts are wrong then?
> 
> No, I doubt any thread where there are a bunch of people who make it their goal to prevent the topic from going in a direction they're not happy with is my kind of thread. You lot want to keep slapping each other's backs and telling yourself how right you are because no one can tell you have wrong you are.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you telling all of us that Theodore Herzl and the Zionists came into the region of Palestine with "guns blazing" ?
> 
> Do you have the source for that?
> 
> How many Jews came into the region of Palestine before or after 1892 with the "guns blazing" ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sigh.... you're really on the offensive now, aren't you.
> 
> Milestones: 1945–1952 - Office of the Historian
> 
> "
> *The Arab-Israeli War of 1948*"
> 
> Israel was founded on 14th May 1948 and the fighting started almost immediately. True or not true?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The riots and attacks on Jews started much earlier.
> Including the one on the Jews in Iraq, where the Palestinian Leader bothered to go in order to incite Iraqi Muslims against the Jews.
> 
> Do the research.
> 
> And I was referring to any time before 1947, before the War of Independence.
> 
> Lots happened before that.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I know. That doesn't mean that the Jews didn't go in with guns blazing, does it?
> 
> They had to fight. It's pretty obvious they'd have to fight and the British could have seen it coming a long way off, but the British didn't care.
> 
> You set up your tent in the middle of a bear cave, and then get pissy when the bears start to grumble.... well.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does "guns blazing" mean?
> 
> This is not a western or gangster movie.
> 
> If you do not have specifics about any of it then why post about it?
> 
> You clearly do not know what the Mandate for Palestine was, and I will not be the one to inform you about it here.
Click to expand...


What does it mean? It can mean whatever the hell you like, as long as it has to do with fighting. 

The Jews had to fight in order to impose themselves on a land they hadn't been that much a part of for a long time. Right? It wasn't peaceful there. The Muslim majority did not want to see their land taken over as the Native Americans had seen their own land taken from them. 

Imagine the scenario. The Scientologists want their own homeland. They decide that Texas is their homeland. They start moving in, they start taking control with the intention of making it their own country. Do you think the people of Texas are just going to allow them to do with?

Oh, I know what the Mandate for Palestine was, don't fucking condescend me with your uniformed bullshit that you're going to try and use to gain "debate points" or whatever the fuck it is you think you're trying to pull.


----------



## abi

frigidweirdo said:


> Imagine the scenario. The Scientologists want their own homeland. They decide that Texas is their homeland. They start moving in, they start taking control with the intention of making it their own country. Do you think the people of Texas are just going to allow them to do with?


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> And how does this paragraph of yours has anything to do with the thread's topic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, more deflecting. What does YOU post have to do with anything?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While you are at it, give us a list of Muslim and Christian homes, business and holy sites the Jews destroyed from 1892 until 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because I would like to see how many Arabs the Jews murdered before 1948.
> How many times they went "guns blazing" against Christians and Muslims before 1948, before all of those Muslims ended up leaving or expelled because of the war after May 1948.
> 
> If the Jews were "gun blazing" in 1948, what were they doing between 1892 and 1948?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then go look it up for yourself. What, am I your fucking slave or something?
> 
> Hey, just go look up the Superbowl scores between 435BC and 134AD please. I just wanna know.
> 
> Look. You seem to think I'm one of these people who will complete ignore the facts to make a narrative that is convenient for their agenda. I'm not.
> 
> I'm not pro-Israeli or pro-Jewish, even if I worked for some of the richest Jews in the US at one time in my life.
> I'm not pro-Palestinian or pro-Muslims either, even if I prefer Falafel to Kosher food.
> 
> I think religion is a pretty poor excuse for hiding from reality, and as power tool.
Click to expand...

Look it up myself......I thought you were the one who wanted to know considering all the wrong information you keep posting on this thread.

Maybe I am wrong.

If you do not know how long Jews have lived on the land, continuously, then you do not know the facts.

If you do not know how many other Nations besides Israel have had a history on the Land of Israel, then you do not know the facts.

I don't want you to be pro Jews, pro Muslims, pro Zionists or pro Palestinians.  Only to be pro facts.
Who you ever worked for does not matter one iota where historical facts are concerned.

You are anti religion.  Good for you.  Believe in whatever you wish to believe spiritually.

Historical facts remain, and you have not been able to give me one historical fact I have asked for which anyone who really wants to know history can find in history books.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was founded on 14th May 1948 and the fighting started almost immediately. True or not true?
> 
> 
> 
> False. Jewish terrorists started blowing up banks, buses and business in the prior decade. These terrorists actually formed Israel's first government. There are some brutally honest accounts of this from former British soldiers who went from being totally on their side, after WWII, to seeing what they were doing and realizing how dangerous these people were from the start. By the time the Aabs fought back in '48, it was too late and they were not capable of dealing with the British and French forces who fought for the zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the rant.
> The British and French forces fought for the zionists, you say.
> 
> That would be news to them.
> 
> Thanks for the clear example of destruction of Jewish history.
> And the right you seem to think you have to destroy that history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well they fought more for the zionists than for anyone else. Why? Well they were helping to create a Jewish state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The French were not involved in the Mandate for Palestine.  They had two other mandates to deal with.
> 
> And what is wrong with recreating the Jewish State on the ancient Jewish homeland?
> 
> Did it become a crime at some point in history, especially as the Ottomans lost that whole territory and more?
Click to expand...


Well, I'd disagree. I'd say the French were involved in the fact that they and the British did a deal. The British get this, the French get this and they'd leave each other alone. There were times during the whole empire building of the two nations where they rubbed up against each other massively. Like in Sudan where the British turned up at some fort and found the French there, not many of them, just a few, but enough that they'd have to start a war in order to get them removed. It happened all the time, but as German strength increased and Wilhelm II wanted to use Britain as an "enemy" in order to push for military ship building, the French and British became allies. It was inconceivable a few decades before, but there you are. Now they were allies, they shared things. And with the decline of the Ottoman Empire, they were dividing up the spoils. 

So, the French let it happen. Oh, just to let you know, one of my direct relatives was posted to Palestine at the end of WW2 as one of those soldiers.

What is wrong with recreating a land where other people already live, and where all surrounding countries are going to be massively hostile? A lot, that's what. Jews were offered other potential places to move to that would have been far less hostile. 

Is it a crime to displace a people? Well, some would call that ethic cleansing. Others might call it Genocide. Would you say ethnic cleansing is a crime? 

The War Crimes Court in the Hague is trying people from the former Yugoslavia for doing just what the Jews did with Israel. But hey, if you have the power behind you, you don't get tried.


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you telling all of us that Theodore Herzl and the Zionists came into the region of Palestine with "guns blazing" ?
> 
> Do you have the source for that?
> 
> How many Jews came into the region of Palestine before or after 1892 with the "guns blazing" ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sigh.... you're really on the offensive now, aren't you.
> 
> Milestones: 1945–1952 - Office of the Historian
> 
> "
> *The Arab-Israeli War of 1948*"
> 
> Israel was founded on 14th May 1948 and the fighting started almost immediately. True or not true?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The riots and attacks on Jews started much earlier.
> Including the one on the Jews in Iraq, where the Palestinian Leader bothered to go in order to incite Iraqi Muslims against the Jews.
> 
> Do the research.
> 
> And I was referring to any time before 1947, before the War of Independence.
> 
> Lots happened before that.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I know. That doesn't mean that the Jews didn't go in with guns blazing, does it?
> 
> They had to fight. It's pretty obvious they'd have to fight and the British could have seen it coming a long way off, but the British didn't care.
> 
> You set up your tent in the middle of a bear cave, and then get pissy when the bears start to grumble.... well.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does "guns blazing" mean?
> 
> This is not a western or gangster movie.
> 
> If you do not have specifics about any of it then why post about it?
> 
> You clearly do not know what the Mandate for Palestine was, and I will not be the one to inform you about it here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does it mean? It can mean whatever the hell you like, as long as it has to do with fighting.
> 
> The Jews had to fight in order to impose themselves on a land they hadn't been that much a part of for a long time. Right? It wasn't peaceful there. The Muslim majority did not want to see their land taken over as the Native Americans had seen their own land taken from them.
> 
> Imagine the scenario. The Scientologists want their own homeland. They decide that Texas is their homeland. They start moving in, they start taking control with the intention of making it their own country. Do you think the people of Texas are just going to allow them to do with?
> 
> Oh, I know what the Mandate for Palestine was, don't fucking condescend me with your uniformed bullshit that you're going to try and use to gain "debate points" or whatever the fuck it is you think you're trying to pull.
Click to expand...

More paragraphs and more wrong sense of history.

Such a lack of knowledge as to where the Muslims came from and how long they had been conquering the world.

Being a majority makes the Muslims the indigenous people of the land?
They are the same as the First nations of the Americas?

How about the first Nation of the ancient land of Canaan?

It was known as Israel and then Judea.

No one left?  Are you sure?  
The Quran mentions them.  Who were they?


----------



## fncceo

frigidweirdo said:


> The Scientologists want their own homeland. They decide that Texas is their homeland.



Is there a lot of archeological evidence that Ancient Scientologists once had a homeland in Texas?


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, more deflecting. What does YOU post have to do with anything?
> 
> 
> 
> While you are at it, give us a list of Muslim and Christian homes, business and holy sites the Jews destroyed from 1892 until 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because I would like to see how many Arabs the Jews murdered before 1948.
> How many times they went "guns blazing" against Christians and Muslims before 1948, before all of those Muslims ended up leaving or expelled because of the war after May 1948.
> 
> If the Jews were "gun blazing" in 1948, what were they doing between 1892 and 1948?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then go look it up for yourself. What, am I your fucking slave or something?
> 
> Hey, just go look up the Superbowl scores between 435BC and 134AD please. I just wanna know.
> 
> Look. You seem to think I'm one of these people who will complete ignore the facts to make a narrative that is convenient for their agenda. I'm not.
> 
> I'm not pro-Israeli or pro-Jewish, even if I worked for some of the richest Jews in the US at one time in my life.
> I'm not pro-Palestinian or pro-Muslims either, even if I prefer Falafel to Kosher food.
> 
> I think religion is a pretty poor excuse for hiding from reality, and as power tool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look it up myself......I thought you were the one who wanted to know considering all the wrong information you keep posting on this thread.
> 
> Maybe I am wrong.
> 
> If you do not know how long Jews have lived on the land, continuously, then you do not know the facts.
> 
> If you do not know how many other Nations besides Israel have had a history on the Land of Israel, then you do not know the facts.
> 
> I don't want you to be pro Jews, pro Muslims, pro Zionists or pro Palestinians.  Only to be pro facts.
> Who you ever worked for does not matter one iota where historical facts are concerned.
> 
> You are anti religion.  Good for you.  Believe in whatever you wish to believe spiritually.
> 
> Historical facts remain, and you have not been able to give me one historical fact I have asked for which anyone who really wants to know history can find in history books.
Click to expand...


You keep talking about all this wrong information I'm supposedly posting, and yet, and yet, you've provided no evidence that I've posted anything that is wrong. Oh....

You come on here and you bring up something I've not spoke about and then demand I do your homework. I'm sure you had some kind of point to make, so why don't you just make it?

Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia

Around 1700 there were only about 2,000 Jews in the area. Muslims have lived in the area from the point Islam arrived in the area to the present day. 

It's even conceivable that some of the Jews became Christians who then became Muslims. The same people, different religion.

Basically though, your irritating little argument is this.

"Give me some statistics about something that has nothing to do with your argument"
"No"
"Oh, you don't know anything"

Look, this is ridiculous. You're playing games and I'm not taking part. You want to discuss things. Fine. We don't need to agree. But playing these silly games as if somehow it'll win you the argument. Nah, you don't win arguments with irritating tactics. It'll just make me stop talking to you.


----------



## abi

fncceo said:


> Is there a lot of archeological evidence that Ancient Scientologists once had a homeland in Texas?


Would it really matter if their ancient ancestors lived there or not?

We had a whole thread on this:
What about the precedent that the zionist ideology in Palestine sets for the rest of the world?


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sigh.... you're really on the offensive now, aren't you.
> 
> Milestones: 1945–1952 - Office of the Historian
> 
> "
> *The Arab-Israeli War of 1948*"
> 
> Israel was founded on 14th May 1948 and the fighting started almost immediately. True or not true?
> 
> 
> 
> The riots and attacks on Jews started much earlier.
> Including the one on the Jews in Iraq, where the Palestinian Leader bothered to go in order to incite Iraqi Muslims against the Jews.
> 
> Do the research.
> 
> And I was referring to any time before 1947, before the War of Independence.
> 
> Lots happened before that.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I know. That doesn't mean that the Jews didn't go in with guns blazing, does it?
> 
> They had to fight. It's pretty obvious they'd have to fight and the British could have seen it coming a long way off, but the British didn't care.
> 
> You set up your tent in the middle of a bear cave, and then get pissy when the bears start to grumble.... well.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does "guns blazing" mean?
> 
> This is not a western or gangster movie.
> 
> If you do not have specifics about any of it then why post about it?
> 
> You clearly do not know what the Mandate for Palestine was, and I will not be the one to inform you about it here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does it mean? It can mean whatever the hell you like, as long as it has to do with fighting.
> 
> The Jews had to fight in order to impose themselves on a land they hadn't been that much a part of for a long time. Right? It wasn't peaceful there. The Muslim majority did not want to see their land taken over as the Native Americans had seen their own land taken from them.
> 
> Imagine the scenario. The Scientologists want their own homeland. They decide that Texas is their homeland. They start moving in, they start taking control with the intention of making it their own country. Do you think the people of Texas are just going to allow them to do with?
> 
> Oh, I know what the Mandate for Palestine was, don't fucking condescend me with your uniformed bullshit that you're going to try and use to gain "debate points" or whatever the fuck it is you think you're trying to pull.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More paragraphs and more wrong sense of history.
> 
> Such a lack of knowledge as to where the Muslims came from and how long they had been conquering the world.
> 
> Being a majority makes the Muslims the indigenous people of the land?
> They are the same as the First nations of the Americas?
> 
> How about the first Nation of the ancient land of Canaan?
> 
> It was known as Israel and then Judea.
> 
> No one left?  Are you sure?
> The Quran mentions them.  Who were they?
Click to expand...


What is indigenous to a land? 

The Muslims have more claim to the land of Palestine than the white people do in the US. 
The Christians have more claim to the land of Palestine than the white people do in the US.

Are you going to kick out all the white people in the USA and give the power back to the Native Americas just so that you have an argument that Jews are the most indigenous to Israel? 

Wait, no, you're not. Why? Because you fuck over the white people in the US and Israel doesn't exist any more. It's that simple.

You're making an argument which actually goes against your own interests. Shocking.


----------



## fncceo

abi said:


> Would it really matter if their ancient ancestors lived their or not?



Well, speaking of precedent ... I would LOVE it for these guys to come in and take your home.


----------



## abi

fncceo said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would it really matter if their ancient ancestors lived their or not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, speaking of precedent ... I would LOVE it for these guys to come in and take your home.
Click to expand...

You would not. The irony, look one post above:



frigidweirdo said:


> What is indigenous to a land?
> 
> The Muslims have more claim to the land of Palestine than the white people do in the US.
> The Christians have more claim to the land of Palestine than the white people do in the US.
> 
> Are you going to kick out all the white people in the USA and give the power back to the Native Americas just so that you have an argument that Jews are the most indigenous to Israel?
> 
> Wait, no, you're not. Why? Because you fuck over the white people in the US and Israel doesn't exist any more. It's that simple.
> 
> You're making an argument which actually goes against your own interests. Shocking.


----------



## frigidweirdo

abi said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would it really matter if their ancient ancestors lived their or not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, speaking of precedent ... I would LOVE it for these guys to come in and take your home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You would not. The irony, look one post above:
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is indigenous to a land?
> 
> The Muslims have more claim to the land of Palestine than the white people do in the US.
> The Christians have more claim to the land of Palestine than the white people do in the US.
> 
> Are you going to kick out all the white people in the USA and give the power back to the Native Americas just so that you have an argument that Jews are the most indigenous to Israel?
> 
> Wait, no, you're not. Why? Because you fuck over the white people in the US and Israel doesn't exist any more. It's that simple.
> 
> You're making an argument which actually goes against your own interests. Shocking.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I don't get the point you're making.


----------



## abi

frigidweirdo said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would it really matter if their ancient ancestors lived their or not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, speaking of precedent ... I would LOVE it for these guys to come in and take your home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You would not. The irony, look one post above:
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is indigenous to a land?
> 
> The Muslims have more claim to the land of Palestine than the white people do in the US.
> The Christians have more claim to the land of Palestine than the white people do in the US.
> 
> Are you going to kick out all the white people in the USA and give the power back to the Native Americas just so that you have an argument that Jews are the most indigenous to Israel?
> 
> Wait, no, you're not. Why? Because you fuck over the white people in the US and Israel doesn't exist any more. It's that simple.
> 
> You're making an argument which actually goes against your own interests. Shocking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't get the point you're making.
Click to expand...

You answered his post before he posted it, Kreskin.


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was founded on 14th May 1948 and the fighting started almost immediately. True or not true?
> 
> 
> 
> False. Jewish terrorists started blowing up banks, buses and business in the prior decade. These terrorists actually formed Israel's first government. There are some brutally honest accounts of this from former British soldiers who went from being totally on their side, after WWII, to seeing what they were doing and realizing how dangerous these people were from the start. By the time the Aabs fought back in '48, it was too late and they were not capable of dealing with the British and French forces who fought for the zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the rant.
> The British and French forces fought for the zionists, you say.
> 
> That would be news to them.
> 
> Thanks for the clear example of destruction of Jewish history.
> And the right you seem to think you have to destroy that history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well they fought more for the zionists than for anyone else. Why? Well they were helping to create a Jewish state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The French were not involved in the Mandate for Palestine.  They had two other mandates to deal with.
> 
> And what is wrong with recreating the Jewish State on the ancient Jewish homeland?
> 
> Did it become a crime at some point in history, especially as the Ottomans lost that whole territory and more?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I'd disagree. I'd say the French were involved in the fact that they and the British did a deal. The British get this, the French get this and they'd leave each other alone. There were times during the whole empire building of the two nations where they rubbed up against each other massively. Like in Sudan where the British turned up at some fort and found the French there, not many of them, just a few, but enough that they'd have to start a war in order to get them removed. It happened all the time, but as German strength increased and Wilhelm II wanted to use Britain as an "enemy" in order to push for military ship building, the French and British became allies. It was inconceivable a few decades before, but there you are. Now they were allies, they shared things. And with the decline of the Ottoman Empire, they were dividing up the spoils.
> 
> So, the French let it happen. Oh, just to let you know, one of my direct relatives was posted to Palestine at the end of WW2 as one of those soldiers.
> 
> What is wrong with recreating a land where other people already live, and where all surrounding countries are going to be massively hostile? A lot, that's what. Jews were offered other potential places to move to that would have been far less hostile.
> 
> Is it a crime to displace a people? Well, some would call that ethic cleansing. Others might call it Genocide. Would you say ethnic cleansing is a crime?
> 
> The War Crimes Court in the Hague is trying people from the former Yugoslavia for doing just what the Jews did with Israel. But hey, if you have the power behind you, you don't get tried.
Click to expand...

What books or sources do you read? 

You say you know what the Mandate for Palestine was.  You do not.
You do not seem to be aware of the other three Mandates and why they ended up divided between the British and the French.

What is wrong with the Jews not accepting any other place in the world as their homeland?

Because the Land of Israel IS their homeland, their ancestral homeland, one which they were never absent of.  That is why.
Because that land has always been important to them, even if living somewhere else.  That is why.

Because even if living far away, they always faced Jerusalem and prayed that one day they would return to it and set it free and live on it again as FREE people.

The region of Palestine, including TranJordan is the Ancient Homeland of the Jews.  One where they have ALWAYS lived on, no matter how many times they were invaded or conquered during the ages INCLUDING the Muslims who invaded and conquered in the 7th Century.

You can cry for peace all you like, but do it with facts and not all the nonsense you seem to have learned from I don't know how many sources.

What you are doing with your posts IS the destruction of Jewish history.

Do you have the right to do it?

Who gave you that right?

In your mind, if Israel is surrounded by so many Arabs, then "gosh forbid" she better just pick up her luggage and run for her life.

You have no understanding AT ALL of how Indigenous people feel about their ancient lands.

Jews are on THEIR ancient land.  The Land of Israel, as much as the Maoris are on THEIR ancient land, now known as New Zealand.
Just as one example.

Jews are not giving up their homeland.  They are not going back to being wandering Jews, treated as inferior, spat on, attacked, murdered or expelled at anyone's whim.

That is exactly why Israel exists today.  For Jews to have a save place to go to if they have nowhere else to go, as evidenced by the number of Jews immigrating to Israel because IT IS THEIR ANCIENT homeland.

You are reading too many comic books where the Jews are the boogie man.

Try reading history.  And stop attempting to destroy our history.

You are even more of an example why Jews must protect their country and defend all of its population and all Jews around the world.

It has never been about Israel.

It is about being Jews.

(Read the endless accusations in the New Testament and the Quran about Jews for the past 1950 years and then tell us that it is because of Israel and how Jews have no right to their land and should not have the right to defend themselves against all of those "enemy countries" all around it and all of the destruction of Jewish history so many Muslims have already accomplished in order to convince the world that the Jews have no right to that land. )


----------



## fncceo

frigidweirdo said:


> Around 1700 there were only about 2,000 Jews in the area.



Today there are 6.5 Million ... and they ain't going anywhere ... case closed.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> False. Jewish terrorists started blowing up banks, buses and business in the prior decade. These terrorists actually formed Israel's first government. There are some brutally honest accounts of this from former British soldiers who went from being totally on their side, after WWII, to seeing what they were doing and realizing how dangerous these people were from the start. By the time the Aabs fought back in '48, it was too late and they were not capable of dealing with the British and French forces who fought for the zionists.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the rant.
> The British and French forces fought for the zionists, you say.
> 
> That would be news to them.
> 
> Thanks for the clear example of destruction of Jewish history.
> And the right you seem to think you have to destroy that history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well they fought more for the zionists than for anyone else. Why? Well they were helping to create a Jewish state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The French were not involved in the Mandate for Palestine.  They had two other mandates to deal with.
> 
> And what is wrong with recreating the Jewish State on the ancient Jewish homeland?
> 
> Did it become a crime at some point in history, especially as the Ottomans lost that whole territory and more?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I'd disagree. I'd say the French were involved in the fact that they and the British did a deal. The British get this, the French get this and they'd leave each other alone. There were times during the whole empire building of the two nations where they rubbed up against each other massively. Like in Sudan where the British turned up at some fort and found the French there, not many of them, just a few, but enough that they'd have to start a war in order to get them removed. It happened all the time, but as German strength increased and Wilhelm II wanted to use Britain as an "enemy" in order to push for military ship building, the French and British became allies. It was inconceivable a few decades before, but there you are. Now they were allies, they shared things. And with the decline of the Ottoman Empire, they were dividing up the spoils.
> 
> So, the French let it happen. Oh, just to let you know, one of my direct relatives was posted to Palestine at the end of WW2 as one of those soldiers.
> 
> What is wrong with recreating a land where other people already live, and where all surrounding countries are going to be massively hostile? A lot, that's what. Jews were offered other potential places to move to that would have been far less hostile.
> 
> Is it a crime to displace a people? Well, some would call that ethic cleansing. Others might call it Genocide. Would you say ethnic cleansing is a crime?
> 
> The War Crimes Court in the Hague is trying people from the former Yugoslavia for doing just what the Jews did with Israel. But hey, if you have the power behind you, you don't get tried.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What books or sources do you read?
> 
> You say you know what the Mandate for Palestine was.  You do not.
> You do not seem to be aware of the other three Mandates and why they ended up divided between the British and the French.
> 
> What is wrong with the Jews not accepting any other place in the world as their homeland?
> 
> Because the Land of Israel IS their homeland, their ancestral homeland, one which they were never absent of.  That is why.
> Because that land has always been important to them, even if living somewhere else.  That is why.
> 
> Because even if living far away, they always faced Jerusalem and prayed that one day they would return to it and set it free and live on it again as FREE people.
> 
> The region of Palestine, including TranJordan is the Ancient Homeland of the Jews.  One where they have ALWAYS lived on, no matter how many times they were invaded or conquered during the ages INCLUDING the Muslims who invaded and conquered in the 7th Century.
> 
> You can cry for peace all you like, but do it with facts and not all the nonsense you seem to have learned from I don't know how many sources.
> 
> What you are doing with your posts IS the destruction of Jewish history.
> 
> Do you have the right to do it?
> 
> Who gave you that right?
> 
> In your mind, if Israel is surrounded by so many Arabs, then "gosh forbid" she better just pick up her luggage and run for her life.
> 
> You have no understanding AT ALL of how Indigenous people feel about their ancient lands.
> 
> Jews are on THEIR ancient land.  The Land of Israel, as much as the Maoris are on THEIR ancient land, now known as New Zealand.
> Just as one example.
> 
> Jews are not giving up their homeland.  They are not going back to being wandering Jews, treated as inferior, spat on, attacked, murdered or expelled at anyone's whim.
> 
> That is exactly why Israel exists today.  For Jews to have a save place to go to if they have nowhere else to go, as evidenced by the number of Jews immigrating to Israel because IT IS THEIR ANCIENT homeland.
> 
> You are reading too many comic books where the Jews are the boogie man.
> 
> Try reading history.  And stop attempting to destroy our history.
> 
> You are even more of an example why Jews must protect their country and defend all of its population and all Jews around the world.
> 
> It has never been about Israel.
> 
> It is about being Jews.
> 
> (Read the endless accusations in the New Testament and the Quran about Jews for the past 1950 years and then tell us that it is because of Israel and how Jews have no right to their land and should not have the right to defend themselves against all of those "enemy countries" all around it and all of the destruction of Jewish history so many Muslims have already accomplished in order to convince the world that the Jews have no right to that land. )
Click to expand...


I'm sorry, I'm not playing this game.


----------



## frigidweirdo

abi said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would it really matter if their ancient ancestors lived their or not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, speaking of precedent ... I would LOVE it for these guys to come in and take your home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You would not. The irony, look one post above:
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is indigenous to a land?
> 
> The Muslims have more claim to the land of Palestine than the white people do in the US.
> The Christians have more claim to the land of Palestine than the white people do in the US.
> 
> Are you going to kick out all the white people in the USA and give the power back to the Native Americas just so that you have an argument that Jews are the most indigenous to Israel?
> 
> Wait, no, you're not. Why? Because you fuck over the white people in the US and Israel doesn't exist any more. It's that simple.
> 
> You're making an argument which actually goes against your own interests. Shocking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't get the point you're making.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You answered his post before he posted it, Kreskin.
Click to expand...


Oh, haha.


----------



## fncceo

frigidweirdo said:


> Because you fuck over the white people in the US and Israel doesn't exist any more. It's that simple.



Israel existed for 20 years under a US arms embargo.

Pretty sure she could continue to exist if the Indians took back their land and set you all back to Ireland.


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the rant.
> The British and French forces fought for the zionists, you say.
> 
> That would be news to them.
> 
> Thanks for the clear example of destruction of Jewish history.
> And the right you seem to think you have to destroy that history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well they fought more for the zionists than for anyone else. Why? Well they were helping to create a Jewish state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The French were not involved in the Mandate for Palestine.  They had two other mandates to deal with.
> 
> And what is wrong with recreating the Jewish State on the ancient Jewish homeland?
> 
> Did it become a crime at some point in history, especially as the Ottomans lost that whole territory and more?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I'd disagree. I'd say the French were involved in the fact that they and the British did a deal. The British get this, the French get this and they'd leave each other alone. There were times during the whole empire building of the two nations where they rubbed up against each other massively. Like in Sudan where the British turned up at some fort and found the French there, not many of them, just a few, but enough that they'd have to start a war in order to get them removed. It happened all the time, but as German strength increased and Wilhelm II wanted to use Britain as an "enemy" in order to push for military ship building, the French and British became allies. It was inconceivable a few decades before, but there you are. Now they were allies, they shared things. And with the decline of the Ottoman Empire, they were dividing up the spoils.
> 
> So, the French let it happen. Oh, just to let you know, one of my direct relatives was posted to Palestine at the end of WW2 as one of those soldiers.
> 
> What is wrong with recreating a land where other people already live, and where all surrounding countries are going to be massively hostile? A lot, that's what. Jews were offered other potential places to move to that would have been far less hostile.
> 
> Is it a crime to displace a people? Well, some would call that ethic cleansing. Others might call it Genocide. Would you say ethnic cleansing is a crime?
> 
> The War Crimes Court in the Hague is trying people from the former Yugoslavia for doing just what the Jews did with Israel. But hey, if you have the power behind you, you don't get tried.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What books or sources do you read?
> 
> You say you know what the Mandate for Palestine was.  You do not.
> You do not seem to be aware of the other three Mandates and why they ended up divided between the British and the French.
> 
> What is wrong with the Jews not accepting any other place in the world as their homeland?
> 
> Because the Land of Israel IS their homeland, their ancestral homeland, one which they were never absent of.  That is why.
> Because that land has always been important to them, even if living somewhere else.  That is why.
> 
> Because even if living far away, they always faced Jerusalem and prayed that one day they would return to it and set it free and live on it again as FREE people.
> 
> The region of Palestine, including TranJordan is the Ancient Homeland of the Jews.  One where they have ALWAYS lived on, no matter how many times they were invaded or conquered during the ages INCLUDING the Muslims who invaded and conquered in the 7th Century.
> 
> You can cry for peace all you like, but do it with facts and not all the nonsense you seem to have learned from I don't know how many sources.
> 
> What you are doing with your posts IS the destruction of Jewish history.
> 
> Do you have the right to do it?
> 
> Who gave you that right?
> 
> In your mind, if Israel is surrounded by so many Arabs, then "gosh forbid" she better just pick up her luggage and run for her life.
> 
> You have no understanding AT ALL of how Indigenous people feel about their ancient lands.
> 
> Jews are on THEIR ancient land.  The Land of Israel, as much as the Maoris are on THEIR ancient land, now known as New Zealand.
> Just as one example.
> 
> Jews are not giving up their homeland.  They are not going back to being wandering Jews, treated as inferior, spat on, attacked, murdered or expelled at anyone's whim.
> 
> That is exactly why Israel exists today.  For Jews to have a save place to go to if they have nowhere else to go, as evidenced by the number of Jews immigrating to Israel because IT IS THEIR ANCIENT homeland.
> 
> You are reading too many comic books where the Jews are the boogie man.
> 
> Try reading history.  And stop attempting to destroy our history.
> 
> You are even more of an example why Jews must protect their country and defend all of its population and all Jews around the world.
> 
> It has never been about Israel.
> 
> It is about being Jews.
> 
> (Read the endless accusations in the New Testament and the Quran about Jews for the past 1950 years and then tell us that it is because of Israel and how Jews have no right to their land and should not have the right to defend themselves against all of those "enemy countries" all around it and all of the destruction of Jewish history so many Muslims have already accomplished in order to convince the world that the Jews have no right to that land. )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, I'm not playing this game.
Click to expand...

Have we lost you?

Historical facts got to be too much for Mr. "I want peace in the world, NOW, so stop mistreating the Palestinians and give them their land back" ?


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well they fought more for the zionists than for anyone else. Why? Well they were helping to create a Jewish state.
> 
> 
> 
> The French were not involved in the Mandate for Palestine.  They had two other mandates to deal with.
> 
> And what is wrong with recreating the Jewish State on the ancient Jewish homeland?
> 
> Did it become a crime at some point in history, especially as the Ottomans lost that whole territory and more?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I'd disagree. I'd say the French were involved in the fact that they and the British did a deal. The British get this, the French get this and they'd leave each other alone. There were times during the whole empire building of the two nations where they rubbed up against each other massively. Like in Sudan where the British turned up at some fort and found the French there, not many of them, just a few, but enough that they'd have to start a war in order to get them removed. It happened all the time, but as German strength increased and Wilhelm II wanted to use Britain as an "enemy" in order to push for military ship building, the French and British became allies. It was inconceivable a few decades before, but there you are. Now they were allies, they shared things. And with the decline of the Ottoman Empire, they were dividing up the spoils.
> 
> So, the French let it happen. Oh, just to let you know, one of my direct relatives was posted to Palestine at the end of WW2 as one of those soldiers.
> 
> What is wrong with recreating a land where other people already live, and where all surrounding countries are going to be massively hostile? A lot, that's what. Jews were offered other potential places to move to that would have been far less hostile.
> 
> Is it a crime to displace a people? Well, some would call that ethic cleansing. Others might call it Genocide. Would you say ethnic cleansing is a crime?
> 
> The War Crimes Court in the Hague is trying people from the former Yugoslavia for doing just what the Jews did with Israel. But hey, if you have the power behind you, you don't get tried.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What books or sources do you read?
> 
> You say you know what the Mandate for Palestine was.  You do not.
> You do not seem to be aware of the other three Mandates and why they ended up divided between the British and the French.
> 
> What is wrong with the Jews not accepting any other place in the world as their homeland?
> 
> Because the Land of Israel IS their homeland, their ancestral homeland, one which they were never absent of.  That is why.
> Because that land has always been important to them, even if living somewhere else.  That is why.
> 
> Because even if living far away, they always faced Jerusalem and prayed that one day they would return to it and set it free and live on it again as FREE people.
> 
> The region of Palestine, including TranJordan is the Ancient Homeland of the Jews.  One where they have ALWAYS lived on, no matter how many times they were invaded or conquered during the ages INCLUDING the Muslims who invaded and conquered in the 7th Century.
> 
> You can cry for peace all you like, but do it with facts and not all the nonsense you seem to have learned from I don't know how many sources.
> 
> What you are doing with your posts IS the destruction of Jewish history.
> 
> Do you have the right to do it?
> 
> Who gave you that right?
> 
> In your mind, if Israel is surrounded by so many Arabs, then "gosh forbid" she better just pick up her luggage and run for her life.
> 
> You have no understanding AT ALL of how Indigenous people feel about their ancient lands.
> 
> Jews are on THEIR ancient land.  The Land of Israel, as much as the Maoris are on THEIR ancient land, now known as New Zealand.
> Just as one example.
> 
> Jews are not giving up their homeland.  They are not going back to being wandering Jews, treated as inferior, spat on, attacked, murdered or expelled at anyone's whim.
> 
> That is exactly why Israel exists today.  For Jews to have a save place to go to if they have nowhere else to go, as evidenced by the number of Jews immigrating to Israel because IT IS THEIR ANCIENT homeland.
> 
> You are reading too many comic books where the Jews are the boogie man.
> 
> Try reading history.  And stop attempting to destroy our history.
> 
> You are even more of an example why Jews must protect their country and defend all of its population and all Jews around the world.
> 
> It has never been about Israel.
> 
> It is about being Jews.
> 
> (Read the endless accusations in the New Testament and the Quran about Jews for the past 1950 years and then tell us that it is because of Israel and how Jews have no right to their land and should not have the right to defend themselves against all of those "enemy countries" all around it and all of the destruction of Jewish history so many Muslims have already accomplished in order to convince the world that the Jews have no right to that land. )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, I'm not playing this game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have we lost you?
> 
> Historical facts got to be too much for Mr. "I want peace in the world, NOW, so stop mistreating the Palestinians and give them their land back" ?
Click to expand...


Typical fucking response from people like you. You think you've won because you irritated the other person so much with bullshit. 

Again, I don't come on here to pretend to be a high school kid. I don't need to do that. Why you need to do that I have no idea, I'm sure some shrink could give you an answer.

I come on here to debate, to learn things, to use my brain, to give my opinion which I try and make as close to the truth as possible. I simply don't need to debate with people who are playing childish games on a constant basis.

I told you before I'd stop talking to you if you kept this shit up, and you kept it up, so I'll stick to my word. It's just not worth it. If I want to mess around with children, I can do that with real children. I don't need you to substitute for one.


----------



## fncceo

frigidweirdo said:


> I told you before I'd stop talking to you if you kept this shit up, and you kept it up



Promise?


----------



## Sixties Fan

fncceo said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I told you before I'd stop talking to you if you kept this shit up, and you kept it up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Promise?
Click to expand...

I hope so


----------



## Shusha

frigidweirdo said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I've done some of that already and you rejected it because it doesn't meet with your agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have brought up unrelated topics in order to confuse and conflate the issue.  You have shown absolutely nothing to indicate that Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history -- which is the topic of the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you recall I mentioned the camps, moving Muslims out of Israeli territory etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, and see here you make a subtle shift in your argument.  Its not really about the camps or the loss of culture.  Its about ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Okay.  Gotcha.  Ethnic cleansing is a method of destroying history.  Let's look at that.
> 
> How many Arabs are there in Israel?  How many Arabs visit the Temple Mount each year?
> 
> How many Jews are in Gaza?  The 'West Bank'?  Jordan?  The remaining nations of the ME?  How many Jews are permitted to visit the Temple Mount annually?
> 
> Who is actually destroying culture here?
> 
> Further, let's look at where the Arab Palestinians are.  The vast majority of them are still in Palestine.  They haven't been removed from their country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I brought up different views of other topics that you did not want to address because it goes away from your agenda.
> 
> As for the rest, I'm not in the mood for your semantics right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, give me a break, I have addressed every one of your posts with lengthy responses.
> 
> You wanted to talk about how cleansing people from their homeland removes their culture.  Let's talk about that.
> 
> Why aren't the Jewish people permitted to pray at their own most Holy site?  Why, the few who are permitted to access the holy site, must they remove all cultural symbols?  Why must they make their culture invisible to the usurpers of their holy site?
> 
> Further, you wanted to talk about the return of the Arab Palestinians to their homeland -- including the part under the sovereignty of Israel.  Are you also willing to allow the return of the Jewish people to their homeland in Judea and Samaria?  Why or why not?
> 
> If the Arabs are to return to Israel, perhaps in a one State solution, how will the Jewish culture be preserved in that environment?  What evidences do you have that the Arabs will permit the Jewish culture to exist, let alone thrive?  What guarantees would you give the Jewish people?
> 
> Let's talk about the subject matter.  Or did you just want to find reasons to bash Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, you could have written a lengthy response about the 1789 Super Bowl, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily relevant.
> 
> What you're telling me is either that I stick to the parts of the topic you want to talk about or else I'm off topic. Which would basically mean that I'm not allowed to disagree with the whole premise of your view of the topic.
Click to expand...


I've tried to engage with you on every topic you've brought up. You refuse to discuss anything. You just move the topic onto something else. 

Basically you are saying that Jews are not permitted to pray in the Temple Mount because the Muslims are pissed. Do you think that is a good reason to deny people their rights?


----------



## frigidweirdo

Shusha said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I've done some of that already and you rejected it because it doesn't meet with your agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have brought up unrelated topics in order to confuse and conflate the issue.  You have shown absolutely nothing to indicate that Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history -- which is the topic of the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you recall I mentioned the camps, moving Muslims out of Israeli territory etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, and see here you make a subtle shift in your argument.  Its not really about the camps or the loss of culture.  Its about ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Okay.  Gotcha.  Ethnic cleansing is a method of destroying history.  Let's look at that.
> 
> How many Arabs are there in Israel?  How many Arabs visit the Temple Mount each year?
> 
> How many Jews are in Gaza?  The 'West Bank'?  Jordan?  The remaining nations of the ME?  How many Jews are permitted to visit the Temple Mount annually?
> 
> Who is actually destroying culture here?
> 
> Further, let's look at where the Arab Palestinians are.  The vast majority of them are still in Palestine.  They haven't been removed from their country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I brought up different views of other topics that you did not want to address because it goes away from your agenda.
> 
> As for the rest, I'm not in the mood for your semantics right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, give me a break, I have addressed every one of your posts with lengthy responses.
> 
> You wanted to talk about how cleansing people from their homeland removes their culture.  Let's talk about that.
> 
> Why aren't the Jewish people permitted to pray at their own most Holy site?  Why, the few who are permitted to access the holy site, must they remove all cultural symbols?  Why must they make their culture invisible to the usurpers of their holy site?
> 
> Further, you wanted to talk about the return of the Arab Palestinians to their homeland -- including the part under the sovereignty of Israel.  Are you also willing to allow the return of the Jewish people to their homeland in Judea and Samaria?  Why or why not?
> 
> If the Arabs are to return to Israel, perhaps in a one State solution, how will the Jewish culture be preserved in that environment?  What evidences do you have that the Arabs will permit the Jewish culture to exist, let alone thrive?  What guarantees would you give the Jewish people?
> 
> Let's talk about the subject matter.  Or did you just want to find reasons to bash Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, you could have written a lengthy response about the 1789 Super Bowl, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily relevant.
> 
> What you're telling me is either that I stick to the parts of the topic you want to talk about or else I'm off topic. Which would basically mean that I'm not allowed to disagree with the whole premise of your view of the topic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've tried to engage with you on every topic you've brought up. You refuse to discuss anything. You just move the topic onto something else.
> 
> Basically you are saying that Jews are not permitted to pray in the Temple Mount because the Muslims are pissed. Do you think that is a good reason to deny people their rights?
Click to expand...


You've tried to engage and seemingly you want me to come to the conclusion that you want. I've answered whatever has come up. Sometimes these topics are complex and you have to understand more than just the surface of what is there.

No, I'm not saying Jews aren't permitted to pray there because Muslims are pissed. 

As for rights, I don't think there is a right to pray wherever you like. But hey, that'd just be ME moving on to another topic, right? Seeing as YOU brought it up.

I've said before, this is about POWER. Both sides trying to get the power, both sides using different arguments of different levels of validity to impose their power on the situation. 

I don't like the situation, but that is the situation. It'd be great if all people could just get along, but they won't because of politicians who know they can gain a good life for themselves as politicians by playing these cards.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Official Palestinian Authority TV - Oct. 18, 2017













_Official PA TV, broadcast of the film_ Kiryat Arba _with guests and explanations interspersed with the film_

*Official PA TV narrator:* “You are in the first place where humans settled, the ancient Palestinians. They began history here, and built a city where they continue to develop their identity and put down roots, and it continues to oppose forgery. This is Hebron. Six thousand years ago the first brick was laid here, and a city that has had different names throughout the years was established. These are names that, if we check their true essence and history, the original identity of the city will appear before us, despite the attempt to give a Hebrew characteristic to some of its names in order to impose an artificial history on the city of Allah’s prophet Abraham…
Scientifically proven history undermines all of the legends that were created in the minds of the invaders. H istory decisively says that this is a city that preceded the religions, and testifies that the first Palestinian built a city here and dwelled in it 6,000 years ago (sic., there is no historical evidence for these claims)…

(full article online)

PA TV claims Hebron’s “original identity” is Palestinian, despite attempts to give “Hebrew characteristics” and an “artificial history” to the city - Jewish history in Land of Israel erased | PMW


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ My #1 favorite appropriation of Jewish History ]



A Palestinian university lecturer taught during a recent Palestinian Authority TV program on religion that Moses, a Muslim, brought "the Muslims of the Children of Israel out of Egypt." He refers to the subsequent Israeli conquest of the Land of Israel as the "first Palestinian liberation... of Palestine." This conquest, he taught, was led not by Joshua, as the Bible tells, but by Saul (Talut) who is also said to have slayed Goliath.

While some of this is retelling of Islamic tradition, some of it is a distortion of even the Quran for political purposes. The Quran refers to the "Children of Israel" in their land in many chapters (e.g., Sura 5), but it never refers to them or anyone else as "Palestinians." Likewise the Quran never refers to Israel's conquest as a "Palestinian" conquest. The lecturer on PA TV, however, deviates from Islamic tradition, and calls the nation of Israel's conquest of the Land of Israel "the first Palestinian liberation through armed struggle to liberate Palestine."

(full article online)

Moses was a Muslim who led Muslims in Exodus from Egypt, says PA university lecturer on PA TV - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ My #2 Favorite appropriation of Jewish History ]


Source: Al-Bawaba, Egyptian news website, Sept. 1, 2017

_Headline:_ “Fatah leader: The [Eid Al-Adha] holiday prayers at the Ibrahimi Mosque are a challenge against the occupation”

       “Fatah Movement Central Committee member and [Fatah] Commissioner for Arab and China Relations Abbas Zaki emphasized… in a statement to [the Egyptian news website] Al-Bawaba News today, Friday [Sept. 1, 2017], that… Israel is moving in the direction of unprecedented extremism, which makes it necessary to leave the deceptive illusion of peace and prepare to confront the occupation on all levels. *He explained that Ibrahim (i.e., the Biblical figure Abraham), the father of the prophets, was a monotheistic Muslim *(sic., in Jewish traition Abraham was the first Jew and lived over 2,000 years before Islam began), which refutes the Zionists’ claims about the Ibrahimi Mosque (i.e., Cave of the Patriarchs) and the Al-Aqsa Mosque (i.e., the Temple Mount). Therefore, the Arab and Islamic nation must have an active presence in order to deter the occupation and its steps against the Palestinian people, its land, and its holy sites.”

Jewish history in Land of Israel erased | PMW


----------



## Sixties Fan

Source: Official Palestinian Authority TV, Mar. 16, 2017

_Official PA TV program _Palestine This Morning_, on the launching of the National Flower of Palestine – Gilboa Iris campaign, hosting Green Life Association Chairman Faisal Zakarneh
_
*Green Life Association Chairman Faisal Zakarneh:* “This is a flower that grows in the Gilboa Mountains (i.e., in northern Israel). At this opportunity, let me explain that Gilboa is an ancient Palestinian-Canaanite-Arabic word, and not Hebrew-Israeli. This needs to be clear. In our minds [the name Gilboa] is connected to the Gilboa Prison... but the occupier has always made us used to him using our language and stealing it and its Arabic-Canaanite-Palestinian names.”

_Mount Gilboa has been the Hebrew name of the location since Biblical times, and notably appears in Samuel 1 Chapter 31 as the location where Saul, the first king of Israel, died in battle.

Jewish history in Land of Israel erased | PMW_


----------



## Sixties Fan

Girl recites poem denying Jewish history, encouraging violence, claims Israeli cities are Palestinian 

Source: Official Palestinian Authority TV, Feb. 24, 2017
_Official PA TV program _The Best Home_, episode with students from Jenin and Hebron_

A young Palestinian girl, Gharad Qassem, recites the following poem:
*Gharad Qassem:* “I am a Palestinian boy
Who are you, foreign boy? And from where did you come? And what is the stone that is in your hand?
I am a Muslim Arab, a free person forever
You do not have the right to ask
I did not come here, but rather you are the one that came
I was born here long ago,
Before you
Before you came to my land
I am a Muslim
My roots are in the depths of history
I am a Palestinian, my roots are in Safed, Ramallah, El-Bireh, and Gaza
I am a Palestinian, my roots are in Haifa, Jaffa, Jerusalem, and Nablus
I am a Palestinian, my roots are in every grain of soil
A rock in my hand, my head and my heart –"

Jewish history in Land of Israel erased | PMW


----------



## Sixties Fan

Source: Ma’an, independent Palestinian news agency, Feb. 21, 2017

_Headline_: "Shtayyeh briefs an ALECSO delegation about the developments in the Palestinian cause"

       "Fatah Movement Central Committee member [and Fatah Commissioner of the Treasury and Economy] Muhammad Shtayyeh met with an Arab League Educational, Cultural, and Scientific Organization ALECSO delegation led by Director General of the organization Abdullah Muharib…
During the meeting Shtayyeh welcomed Dr. Muharib and his entourage… and briefed the delegation on the latest developments in the Palestinian cause. He reviewed the historical background of the Zionist project in Palestine since 1650 (sic., 1850) and until present times, what is called the 'global Zionist plan,' and the historical connection between the Zionist project and the Western colonialist project… Shtayyeh emphasized that the Zionist project is colonialist and has no connection to Judaism and the myths that the occupation invents."


----------



## Sixties Fan

Source: Official Palestinian Authority TV, Feb. 13, 2017

_Official PA TV program _Panorama of the Hour_, hosting geography lecturer Jihad Abu Tawileh of Al-Azhar University in Gaza
_
*Official PA TV host: "*Dr. Jihad [Abu Tawileh], what are the foundations by which the areas are chosen for settlements?”

*Geography lecturer Jihad Abu Tawileh:* "The foundations and data, or the considerations on which they [Israelis] depend for establishing the settlements in the West Bank are financial considerations. Also the most important consideration is not a historical consideration because the history is falsified. They do not have a history, and they do not even have a Torah and a Talmud. Israel is attempting to create a falsified history, or to invent [history]. I will call it copying biblical and Talmudic history in the West Bank, thinking that it is the land of Judea and Samaria. Of course this is falsified distorted history, but the foundations depended upon [for establishing] are financial, and especially water."


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ I am confused.....are you?  ]

Listeners then heard an egregious distortion of history that likewise went completely unchallenged by the BBC presenter.

Abu Zayyad: “It’s based on the fact that 650 years ago…in 650 years BC Palestinians arrived to this country and they have been here while the Jewish people arrived actually 350 years BC. They have been living in this land for a long, long time and at the moment at 2017 if you look at the population that is living in East Jerusalem you’re talking about 350,000 Palestinians living in it, working in it and trying to get their rights. We want equality on rights so like any other people we want either sovereignty or equality. Either you give us a state of our own – with East Jerusalem which is part of the Palestinian lands that were occupied at 1967 when Israel went into war – or you simply go to the other option which is one state with equality and basic rights that include voting and a democratic system for everyone on the historical lands of Palestine from the sea to the river.”

(full article online)

Fatah disinformation goes unchallenged on the BBC World Service


----------



## Sixties Fan

Source: Official Palestinian Authority TV, Feb. 13, 2017

_Official PA TV program _Panorama of the Hour_, hosting geography lecturer Jihad Abu Tawileh of Al-Azhar University in Gaza
_
*Official PA TV host: "*Dr. Jihad [Abu Tawileh], what are the foundations by which the areas are chosen for settlements?”
*Geography lecturer Jihad Abu Tawileh:* "The foundations and data, or the considerations on which they [Israelis] depend for establishing the settlements in the West Bank are financial considerations. Also the most important consideration is not a historical consideration because the history is falsified. They do not have a history, and they do not even have a Torah and a Talmud. Israel is attempting to create a falsified history, or to invent [history]. I will call it copying biblical and Talmudic history in the West Bank, thinking that it is the land of Judea and Samaria. Of course this is falsified distorted history, but the foundations depended upon [for establishing] are financial, and especially water."


----------



## Sixties Fan

El Badil, also in  Egypt, has an article that denies that Jews in Israel are Jewish, saying that anyone who says that Zionists are cousins of the Arabs is engaging in an attempt to normalize relations with Israel. One of the fun facts that author claims is that the debunked book The Thirteenth Tribe claiming that Ashkenazic Jews are European Khazars is no longer available in the United States at all, and even the copy in the Library of Congress has mysteriously disappeared.(Perhaps the Library should get it from Amazon.)

(full article online)

Today's explicit Arab antisemitism that not one Arab or Muslim will condemn publicly in Arabic ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA official: UNESCO proves that Jews have “no religious or historical connection to Jerusalem” - Jewish history in Land of Israel erased | PMW


----------



## teddyearp

frigidweirdo said:


> Sigh.... you're really on the offensive now, aren't you.
> 
> Milestones: 1945–1952 - Office of the Historian
> 
> "
> *The Arab-Israeli War of 1948*"
> 
> Israel was founded on 14th May 1948 and the fighting started almost immediately. True or not true?



Sigh. Off topic, but did you even read your linked article? Right in the first paragraph it states, "five Arab armies invaded". 

How does that prove the Jews came in guns blazing?


----------



## Sixties Fan

teddyearp said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sigh.... you're really on the offensive now, aren't you.
> 
> Milestones: 1945–1952 - Office of the Historian
> 
> "
> *The Arab-Israeli War of 1948*"
> 
> Israel was founded on 14th May 1948 and the fighting started almost immediately. True or not true?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sigh. Off topic, but did you even read your linked article? Right in the first paragraph it states, "five Arab armies invaded".
> 
> How does that prove the Jews came in guns blazing?
Click to expand...

One poster who will not return.


----------



## fanger

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told NNC Pierce Morgan on March 18, 2011 that he might agree to a Palestinian state through negotiations. And he added, “We will make territorial concessions although it is very painful to do that in our ancestral land.” Netanyahu was not talking about Poland where his ancestors lived. He was talking about Palestine where generations of its indigenous population ancestors lived, cultivated the land and are buried.

By the end of the nineteenth century, Zionism created a new Jewish identity of blood and soil. To mobilize their followers and supporters and appeal to their emotions, the Zionists created myths. Zionism started as a tribal religion without god, but in order to fulfill its function as a unifying force, Zionism required external religious and race symbols, not inner content. Its leaders regarded metaphysical religious belief and purity of race as having value in itself. They created a divine paradisiacal state of merger with the gods. Despite his non-religious ideology, Herzl’s writings were replete with religious references. The Jews should settle in Palestine because, in his words, “the Temple will be visible from long distance, for it is only our ancient faith that has kept us together”.

The Zionists and their supporters have invested tremendous financial and scholarly resources to work within the Hebrew Bible historical narratives to affirm the links between the intrusive Zionist population and the ancient Israelite past, and by doing so assert the right of that population to the land. The political end-game shaped the investigation and the outcome. Tracing the roots of Israel’s ethnic state in biblical antiquity is effectively to silence the indigenous Palestinian claim to the past and therefore to the land. The Biblical scholarship employs a bewildering array of terms for the region: “the Holy Land”, “the Land of the Bible”, “Eretz Israel”, “the Land of Israel”, or “Judah and Samaria.” To the casual reader these names appear interchangeable, but they all imply connection to ancient Israel.
Continued


----------



## Sixties Fan

fanger said:


> Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told NNC Pierce Morgan on March 18, 2011 that he might agree to a Palestinian state through negotiations. And he added, “We will make territorial concessions although it is very painful to do that in our ancestral land.” Netanyahu was not talking about Poland where his ancestors lived. He was talking about Palestine where generations of its indigenous population ancestors lived, cultivated the land and are buried.
> 
> By the end of the nineteenth century, Zionism created a new Jewish identity of blood and soil. To mobilize their followers and supporters and appeal to their emotions, the Zionists created myths. Zionism started as a tribal religion without god, but in order to fulfill its function as a unifying force, Zionism required external religious and race symbols, not inner content. Its leaders regarded metaphysical religious belief and purity of race as having value in itself. They created a divine paradisiacal state of merger with the gods. Despite his non-religious ideology, Herzl’s writings were replete with religious references. The Jews should settle in Palestine because, in his words, “the Temple will be visible from long distance, for it is only our ancient faith that has kept us together”.
> 
> The Zionists and their supporters have invested tremendous financial and scholarly resources to work within the Hebrew Bible historical narratives to affirm the links between the intrusive Zionist population and the ancient Israelite past, and by doing so assert the right of that population to the land. The political end-game shaped the investigation and the outcome. Tracing the roots of Israel’s ethnic state in biblical antiquity is effectively to silence the indigenous Palestinian claim to the past and therefore to the land. The Biblical scholarship employs a bewildering array of terms for the region: “the Holy Land”, “the Land of the Bible”, “Eretz Israel”, “the Land of Israel”, or “Judah and Samaria.” To the casual reader these names appear interchangeable, but they all imply connection to ancient Israel.
> Continued


A Palestinian telling Jewish/ZIonism history.

How quaint  

No, he does not have the right to destroy Jewish History with this:

"The indigenous Palestinians, the legitimate owners of the land, are the descendants of Ancient Canaanites, Philistinians, ancient Hebrews, Assyrians, ancient Egyptians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Muslims, Christian crusaders and Turks. The groups that lived in Palestine fought, interacted and collaborated, but no group was obliterated."


Arab Palestinians are Arabs.

It is so simple that even all of the ancient tribes in ancient Canaan agree


----------



## ForeverYoung436

fanger said:


> Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told NNC Pierce Morgan on March 18, 2011 that he might agree to a Palestinian state through negotiations. And he added, “We will make territorial concessions although it is very painful to do that in our ancestral land.” Netanyahu was not talking about Poland where his ancestors lived. He was talking about Palestine where generations of its indigenous population ancestors lived, cultivated the land and are buried.
> 
> By the end of the nineteenth century, Zionism created a new Jewish identity of blood and soil. To mobilize their followers and supporters and appeal to their emotions, the Zionists created myths. Zionism started as a tribal religion without god, but in order to fulfill its function as a unifying force, Zionism required external religious and race symbols, not inner content. Its leaders regarded metaphysical religious belief and purity of race as having value in itself. They created a divine paradisiacal state of merger with the gods. Despite his non-religious ideology, Herzl’s writings were replete with religious references. The Jews should settle in Palestine because, in his words, “the Temple will be visible from long distance, for it is only our ancient faith that has kept us together”.
> 
> The Zionists and their supporters have invested tremendous financial and scholarly resources to work within the Hebrew Bible historical narratives to affirm the links between the intrusive Zionist population and the ancient Israelite past, and by doing so assert the right of that population to the land. The political end-game shaped the investigation and the outcome. Tracing the roots of Israel’s ethnic state in biblical antiquity is effectively to silence the indigenous Palestinian claim to the past and therefore to the land. The Biblical scholarship employs a bewildering array of terms for the region: “the Holy Land”, “the Land of the Bible”, “Eretz Israel”, “the Land of Israel”, or “Judah and Samaria.” To the casual reader these names appear interchangeable, but they all imply connection to ancient Israel.
> Continued


 

Yes, Eretz Israel is the Holy Land and the Promised Land, the land where our kings and prophets walked.  Practically every street in Jerusalem is named after a prophet (like Shmuel HaNavi) or king/ queen (Shlomtzion HaMalka).  There are the King David and King Solomon Hotels.  You can't walk a mile in Israel without stepping into Jewish history, whether it's the tunnel where the last King of Judah (Zedekiah) fled from the Babylonians, the fortress of Masada, or Ein-Gedi where David hid from Saul.


----------



## fanger

Sixties Fan said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told NNC Pierce Morgan on March 18, 2011 that he might agree to a Palestinian state through negotiations. And he added, “We will make territorial concessions although it is very painful to do that in our ancestral land.” Netanyahu was not talking about Poland where his ancestors lived. He was talking about Palestine where generations of its indigenous population ancestors lived, cultivated the land and are buried.
> 
> By the end of the nineteenth century, Zionism created a new Jewish identity of blood and soil. To mobilize their followers and supporters and appeal to their emotions, the Zionists created myths. Zionism started as a tribal religion without god, but in order to fulfill its function as a unifying force, Zionism required external religious and race symbols, not inner content. Its leaders regarded metaphysical religious belief and purity of race as having value in itself. They created a divine paradisiacal state of merger with the gods. Despite his non-religious ideology, Herzl’s writings were replete with religious references. The Jews should settle in Palestine because, in his words, “the Temple will be visible from long distance, for it is only our ancient faith that has kept us together”.
> 
> The Zionists and their supporters have invested tremendous financial and scholarly resources to work within the Hebrew Bible historical narratives to affirm the links between the intrusive Zionist population and the ancient Israelite past, and by doing so assert the right of that population to the land. The political end-game shaped the investigation and the outcome. Tracing the roots of Israel’s ethnic state in biblical antiquity is effectively to silence the indigenous Palestinian claim to the past and therefore to the land. The Biblical scholarship employs a bewildering array of terms for the region: “the Holy Land”, “the Land of the Bible”, “Eretz Israel”, “the Land of Israel”, or “Judah and Samaria.” To the casual reader these names appear interchangeable, but they all imply connection to ancient Israel.
> Continued
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestinian telling Jewish/ZIonism history.
> 
> How quaint
> 
> No, he does not have the right to destroy Jewish History with this:
> 
> "The indigenous Palestinians, the legitimate owners of the land, are the descendants of Ancient Canaanites, Philistinians, ancient Hebrews, Assyrians, ancient Egyptians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Muslims, Christian crusaders and Turks. The groups that lived in Palestine fought, interacted and collaborated, but no group was obliterated."
> 
> 
> Arab Palestinians are Arabs.
> 
> It is so simple that even all of the ancient tribes in ancient Canaan agree
Click to expand...

Biblical narratives or poems that cannot be supported by archeology and common sense are treated by the Zionists and their supporters as historical language. Historians have to differentiate between biblical myths and the history of real people living in real places and real time. They should have the intellectual courage to challenge any source including the “revealed truth” of higher order as presented in Biblical text if it is used to justify injustice and cruelty by one people against another. Gamla, an ethnic cleansing advocacy group founded by former Israeli military officers, Knesset members and settler activists publishes detailed plans for how to carry out the “complete elimination of the Arab demographic threat to Israel” by forcibly expelling all Palestinians and demolishing their towns and villages. This, the plan argued is “the only possible solution” to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict and it is “substantiated by the Torah.” Biblical studies have focused on inventing “Ancient Israel” while ignoring the reality of Palestinian history over thousands of years. Many historic experiences related to the ancient Israelite conquest and settlement of Palestine were described in terms of divine acts with religious zeal.

Many scholars, mostly moderate Jewish, who give primacy to archaeology, relegate the biblical text to a secondary place as a historical source. On 2001 Passover, Rabbi David Wolpe of Sinai Temple in Westwood, Los Angeles told his congregation: “The truth is that virtually every archaeologist who has investigated the story of the Exodus [from Egypt], with very few exceptions, agrees that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way it happened, if it happened at all.” He based his conclusions on the fact that no archeological findings have produced evidence of the Jews wandering the Sinai Desert for forty years, and the excavations in Palestine show settlement patterns different from the Biblical account of a sudden influx of Jews from Egypt.

continued


----------



## Sixties Fan

fanger said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told NNC Pierce Morgan on March 18, 2011 that he might agree to a Palestinian state through negotiations. And he added, “We will make territorial concessions although it is very painful to do that in our ancestral land.” Netanyahu was not talking about Poland where his ancestors lived. He was talking about Palestine where generations of its indigenous population ancestors lived, cultivated the land and are buried.
> 
> By the end of the nineteenth century, Zionism created a new Jewish identity of blood and soil. To mobilize their followers and supporters and appeal to their emotions, the Zionists created myths. Zionism started as a tribal religion without god, but in order to fulfill its function as a unifying force, Zionism required external religious and race symbols, not inner content. Its leaders regarded metaphysical religious belief and purity of race as having value in itself. They created a divine paradisiacal state of merger with the gods. Despite his non-religious ideology, Herzl’s writings were replete with religious references. The Jews should settle in Palestine because, in his words, “the Temple will be visible from long distance, for it is only our ancient faith that has kept us together”.
> 
> The Zionists and their supporters have invested tremendous financial and scholarly resources to work within the Hebrew Bible historical narratives to affirm the links between the intrusive Zionist population and the ancient Israelite past, and by doing so assert the right of that population to the land. The political end-game shaped the investigation and the outcome. Tracing the roots of Israel’s ethnic state in biblical antiquity is effectively to silence the indigenous Palestinian claim to the past and therefore to the land. The Biblical scholarship employs a bewildering array of terms for the region: “the Holy Land”, “the Land of the Bible”, “Eretz Israel”, “the Land of Israel”, or “Judah and Samaria.” To the casual reader these names appear interchangeable, but they all imply connection to ancient Israel.
> Continued
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestinian telling Jewish/ZIonism history.
> 
> How quaint
> 
> No, he does not have the right to destroy Jewish History with this:
> 
> "The indigenous Palestinians, the legitimate owners of the land, are the descendants of Ancient Canaanites, Philistinians, ancient Hebrews, Assyrians, ancient Egyptians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Muslims, Christian crusaders and Turks. The groups that lived in Palestine fought, interacted and collaborated, but no group was obliterated."
> 
> 
> Arab Palestinians are Arabs.
> 
> It is so simple that even all of the ancient tribes in ancient Canaan agree
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Biblical narratives or poems that cannot be supported by archeology and common sense are treated by the Zionists and their supporters as historical language. Historians have to differentiate between biblical myths and the history of real people living in real places and real time. They should have the intellectual courage to challenge any source including the “revealed truth” of higher order as presented in Biblical text if it is used to justify injustice and cruelty by one people against another. Gamla, an ethnic cleansing advocacy group founded by former Israeli military officers, Knesset members and settler activists publishes detailed plans for how to carry out the “complete elimination of the Arab demographic threat to Israel” by forcibly expelling all Palestinians and demolishing their towns and villages. This, the plan argued is “the only possible solution” to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict and it is “substantiated by the Torah.” Biblical studies have focused on inventing “Ancient Israel” while ignoring the reality of Palestinian history over thousands of years. Many historic experiences related to the ancient Israelite conquest and settlement of Palestine were described in terms of divine acts with religious zeal.
> 
> Many scholars, mostly moderate Jewish, who give primacy to archaeology, relegate the biblical text to a secondary place as a historical source. On 2001 Passover, Rabbi David Wolpe of Sinai Temple in Westwood, Los Angeles told his congregation: “The truth is that virtually every archaeologist who has investigated the story of the Exodus [from Egypt], with very few exceptions, agrees that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way it happened, if it happened at all.” He based his conclusions on the fact that no archeological findings have produced evidence of the Jews wandering the Sinai Desert for forty years, and the excavations in Palestine show settlement patterns different from the Biblical account of a sudden influx of Jews from Egypt.
> 
> continued
Click to expand...

I do thank you for alerting me to this site and the "Right to Destroy Jewish History" the author of the article seems to think he and other Arab Muslims are entitled to have.

This coming from a religion which is based on the Myth that Allah (oh, wait, wasn't it Angel Gabriel from Jewish Myths? ) told Mohammad that he would create "the last" monotheism, designed to replaced the previous two ones.

And through that monotheism, the previous two could either accept it or be oppressed and killed at any Muslim whim.

The author only seems to like Myths which fulfill Muslim narratives or superiority to Jews, especially to Jews.

It does not matter who writes against or denies Jewish History.
It is there, on the Land of Israel and always will be.

How many parts to this beautiful attempt at destruction of Jewish History?


----------



## fanger

The Bible and the claim of the Jews as a distinct race have been used as a tool to cement the inner unity of the Zionist movement and an indispensable weapon in the struggle for claiming the land of Palestine. The religio-historical element as a focus of national identity had greater importance in Zionism than in other national movements. It was religion in the broadest sense, with all its national and historical connotations, that provided the justification for the conquest of Palestine and legitimization of Jews’ return.

Although Semitic originally referred to certain languages and peoples of the Eastern Mediterranean that included not only Jews but also Palestinians, Assyrians, Babylonians and Phoenicians, claim of hostility only toward Jews is generally known as anti-Semitism.

Jews are a religious body, not a separate biological human group. The history of the Jews reveals that they have always interbred with non-Jews and many non-Jews have become Jews. The only valid criterion for determining membership in the group is confessional.

By insisting that a cultural trait, Jewishness, is inherited, the self-proclaimed Jews have contributed to the idea that they belong to an exclusive family, a distinct race, and a chosen people. Under Israel’s “Law of Return” of Jews to Israel, Ethiopian Jews (Falashas) were verified as descendants of an ancient Israelite tribe by testing samples of their males DNA Y-Chromosome. The claim of identifying the Jewish DNA is the pinnacle of charlatan science, an ideology driven hoax!
continued


----------



## Sixties Fan

Source: Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Feb. 9, 2017

Headline: "Experts: The book ‘The Bible Proves that Palestine is Arab’ refutes the Israeli lies"

"Arab experts and researchers emphasized yesterday [Feb. 8, 2017] that the book ‘The Bible Proves that Palestine is Arab,' published by researcher Dua Al-Sharif, refutes all of the lies and false narratives that Israel has disseminated throughout recent decades in an attempt to prove the claims regarding 'what is called the Promised Land, the Judaization of Jerusalem, and the construction of the Temple on the ruins of the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque.'

These statements were made during a discussion about the book ‘The Bible Proves that Palestine is Arab’ at the international book fair in Cairo, with the participation of Secretary-General of the Arab League Sa'id Abu Ali, political analyst and researcher Dr. Sarkis Abu Zaid, and author of the book and expert on Israeli affairs Dua Al-Sharif. The Egyptian Middle East News Agency quoted Sa'id Abu Ali who said: 'The Israeli claims are based only on false claims and lies, and this is what the researcher has proven by examining the historical facts, that there is no promise, Promised [Land], or anything else, and it does not matter what they do, Palestine will remain Arab.'
Dr. Sarkis Abu Zaid noted that 'The conflict with Israel is cultural and military,' and that 'This book comes at a time when the colonialist states are struggling over the division of the region in order to create a new map that will first of all serve the West and Israel.' He added that Israel intentionally falsified history in order to erase the Palestinian identity, as the Israeli myth claims that the Bible is the spiritual father of modern culture, while everything that is written in it was taken and stolen from the Arab cultures, such as the ancient Egyptian culture, the Iraqi culture, and the Canaanite culture.


----------



## teddyearp

It is interesting that the Arab Muslims are the ones accusing Israel of some 'recent invention' when it is the recent invention of the Palestinian narrative to deny the ancient Jewish writings as a recent invention. These writings have been around for thousands of years and get this.

They're even mentioned and confirmed in the Muslim writings that are hundreds of years old.  The Koran admits that Israel is the homeland of the Jews.

Then the narrative claims that the Jews come from Europe.

Am I the only one that sees through this twisting of history bullshit?


----------



## teddyearp

You know, the Jews have been telling the same story for at least 2,500 years.  It is the Muslims who keep changing the story.


----------



## frigidweirdo

teddyearp said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sigh.... you're really on the offensive now, aren't you.
> 
> Milestones: 1945–1952 - Office of the Historian
> 
> "
> *The Arab-Israeli War of 1948*"
> 
> Israel was founded on 14th May 1948 and the fighting started almost immediately. True or not true?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sigh. Off topic, but did you even read your linked article? Right in the first paragraph it states, "five Arab armies invaded".
> 
> How does that prove the Jews came in guns blazing?
Click to expand...


So, are you saying this just happened? That Israel didn't expect a war? How did they win the war if they didn't have an army in the first place?


----------



## teddyearp

Considering how much they were outnumbered and outgunned, sheer luck and lots of balls.


----------



## frigidweirdo

teddyearp said:


> Considering how much they were outnumbered and outgunned, sheer luck and lots of balls.



Potentially. They had more to fight for. 

However it wasn't like they didn't have arms. 

1948 Arab–Israeli War - Wikipedia

"In 1946, Ben-Gurion decided that the Yishuv would probably have to defend itself against both the Palestinian Arabs and neighbouring Arab states and accordingly began a "massive, covert arms acquisition campaign in the West", and acquired many more during the first few months of hostilities."

Though they probably weren't outnumber in terms of troops. 

"The effective number of Arab combatants is listed at 12,000 by some historians[59] while others calculate a total Arab strength of approximately 23,500 troops, and with this being more of less or roughly equal to that of the Yishuv. However, as Israel mobilized most of its most able citizens during the war while the Arab troops were only a small percentage of its far greater population, the strength of the Yishuv grew steadily and dramatically during the war."


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Considering how much they were outnumbered and outgunned, sheer luck and lots of balls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Potentially. They had more to fight for.
> 
> However it wasn't like they didn't have arms.
> 
> 1948 Arab–Israeli War - Wikipedia
> 
> "In 1946, Ben-Gurion decided that the Yishuv would probably have to defend itself against both the Palestinian Arabs and neighbouring Arab states and accordingly began a "massive, covert arms acquisition campaign in the West", and acquired many more during the first few months of hostilities."
> 
> Though they probably weren't outnumber in terms of troops.
> 
> "The effective number of Arab combatants is listed at 12,000 by some historians[59] while others calculate a total Arab strength of approximately 23,500 troops, and with this being more of less or roughly equal to that of the Yishuv. However, as Israel mobilized most of its most able citizens during the war while the Arab troops were only a small percentage of its far greater population, the strength of the Yishuv grew steadily and dramatically during the war."
Click to expand...

Let me make things simple for you.

1900 years before, the Jewish people were surrounded by the invading, conquering Roman Empire.
They revolted against the Romans a couple of times.
In 70 CE they lost badly.
From 132 until 135 CE the Jewish revolt headed by Bar Kochba managed to keep the Romans out of their sovereign land.

Clearly they had arms, made arms, or got them somehow exactly because they knew that they would have to protect their land from the Romans who would want to take it back.
No different than it had been during any other time before with the Philistines, Greeks, etc.
One protects one's land as best as one can from invaders.

From 1920 to 1948, the Jews realized that being surrounded by some (not all) hostile Muslim Arabs - they would need weapons and to defend themselves.

It became much clearer by 1936, when the 1936-39 "war" happened between the Arabs and Jews.

There was not a time from 1920 to 1948 when Arabs were not rioting and attacking Jews at the incitement of the Husseini Clan.

Therefore, just like doing Roman times, the Jews had to find ways to arm themselves in order to protect themselves against the Arabs who did not want them to recreate their nation on their ancient land, just as the Jews had done before against the Greeks and Persians.

You speak as if the Jews, upon attempting to recreate their sovereign nation on their ancient land, should not have expected the Arabs to turn against them - which started in 1920 - or that the Jews should not have been able to think about acquiring weapons of any kind to protect themselves.


1948 was not 2017.

Israel then, did not have the weapons it has now.
Nor did it have the weapons it had in 1973, 1967, or 1956.

Whichever weapons or tanks, etc the Jews were able to acquire, considering the danger which was more than clear after what was discovered happened to a huge number of Jews during WWII, they went ahead and acquired them.

Is there any difference in survival from the time against the Romans and the time now against the Muslims?

No.

Outnumbered, outgunned, they only had their need to survive to fight.

The Jews lost in 135 CE.

By one or more miracles, and the loss of more than 6000 Jews during the 1948.....it survived. 

And it continues to survive......WHY?

Because the Jewish people have no other choice but to survive this time, considering not only the history of the past 100 years against Jews and Israel, but the whole history which has unfolded for the past 1700 years against Jews at any time, by any one who has decided that it is time to beat up Jews.

Do you have any other questions about the Jews' right to arm themselves in order to protect their lives and land and the sovereignty over their ancient homeland which they have every right to, regardless of the number of invaders wanting that land and put an end to them?

It is more than enough that the invaders got a hold of 80% of the ancient Jewish homeland (TranJordan and Gaza).

The rest belongs to the Jews, and it includes their most ancient land known as Judea and Samaria and their ancient 3000 year old capital known as Jerusalem.

Questions?


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Considering how much they were outnumbered and outgunned, sheer luck and lots of balls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Potentially. They had more to fight for.
> 
> However it wasn't like they didn't have arms.
> 
> 1948 Arab–Israeli War - Wikipedia
> 
> "In 1946, Ben-Gurion decided that the Yishuv would probably have to defend itself against both the Palestinian Arabs and neighbouring Arab states and accordingly began a "massive, covert arms acquisition campaign in the West", and acquired many more during the first few months of hostilities."
> 
> Though they probably weren't outnumber in terms of troops.
> 
> "The effective number of Arab combatants is listed at 12,000 by some historians[59] while others calculate a total Arab strength of approximately 23,500 troops, and with this being more of less or roughly equal to that of the Yishuv. However, as Israel mobilized most of its most able citizens during the war while the Arab troops were only a small percentage of its far greater population, the strength of the Yishuv grew steadily and dramatically during the war."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me make things simple for you.
> 
> 1900 years before, the Jewish people were surrounded by the invading, conquering Roman Empire.
> They revolted against the Romans a couple of times.
> In 70 CE they lost badly.
> From 132 until 135 CE the Jewish revolt headed by Bar Kochba managed to keep the Romans out of their sovereign land.
> 
> Clearly they had arms, made arms, or got them somehow exactly because they knew that they would have to protect their land from the Romans who would want to take it back.
> No different than it had been during any other time before with the Philistines, Greeks, etc.
> One protects one's land as best as one can from invaders.
> 
> From 1920 to 1948, the Jews realized that being surrounded by some (not all) hostile Muslim Arabs - they would need weapons and to defend themselves.
> 
> It became much clearer by 1936, when the 1936-39 "war" happened between the Arabs and Jews.
> 
> There was not a time from 1920 to 1948 when Arabs were not rioting and attacking Jews at the incitement of the Husseini Clan.
> 
> Therefore, just like doing Roman times, the Jews had to find ways to arm themselves in order to protect themselves against the Arabs who did not want them to recreate their nation on their ancient land, just as the Jews had done before against the Greeks and Persians.
> 
> You speak as if the Jews, upon attempting to recreate their sovereign nation on their ancient land, should not have expected the Arabs to turn against them - which started in 1920 - or that the Jews should not have been able to think about acquiring weapons of any kind to protect themselves.
> 
> 
> 1948 was not 2017.
> 
> Israel then, did not have the weapons it has now.
> Nor did it have the weapons it had in 1973, 1967, or 1956.
> 
> Whichever weapons or tanks, etc the Jews were able to acquire, considering the danger which was more than clear after what was discovered happened to a huge number of Jews during WWII, they went ahead and acquired them.
> 
> Is there any difference in survival from the time against the Romans and the time now against the Muslims?
> 
> No.
> 
> Outnumbered, outgunned, they only had their need to survive to fight.
> 
> The Jews lost in 135 CE.
> 
> By one or more miracles, and the loss of more than 6000 Jews during the 1948.....it survived.
> 
> And it continues to survive......WHY?
> 
> Because the Jewish people have no other choice but to survive this time, considering not only the history of the past 100 years against Jews and Israel, but the whole history which has unfolded for the past 1700 years against Jews at any time, by any one who has decided that it is time to beat up Jews.
> 
> Do you have any other questions about the Jews' right to arm themselves in order to protect their lives and land and the sovereignty over their ancient homeland which they have every right to, regardless of the number of invaders wanting that land and put an end to them?
> 
> It is more than enough that the invaders got a hold of 80% of the ancient Jewish homeland (TranJordan and Gaza).
> 
> The rest belongs to the Jews, and it includes their most ancient land known as Judea and Samaria and their ancient 3000 year old capital known as Jerusalem.
> 
> Questions?
Click to expand...


Yes, my question is why do you think that I would not expect them to take up arms to defend themselves?

You talk as if you know what to expect from me, and the answers you give aren't in response to what I write, but in response to what you think I would have written were I anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish.


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Considering how much they were outnumbered and outgunned, sheer luck and lots of balls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Potentially. They had more to fight for.
> 
> However it wasn't like they didn't have arms.
> 
> 1948 Arab–Israeli War - Wikipedia
> 
> "In 1946, Ben-Gurion decided that the Yishuv would probably have to defend itself against both the Palestinian Arabs and neighbouring Arab states and accordingly began a "massive, covert arms acquisition campaign in the West", and acquired many more during the first few months of hostilities."
> 
> Though they probably weren't outnumber in terms of troops.
> 
> "The effective number of Arab combatants is listed at 12,000 by some historians[59] while others calculate a total Arab strength of approximately 23,500 troops, and with this being more of less or roughly equal to that of the Yishuv. However, as Israel mobilized most of its most able citizens during the war while the Arab troops were only a small percentage of its far greater population, the strength of the Yishuv grew steadily and dramatically during the war."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me make things simple for you.
> 
> 1900 years before, the Jewish people were surrounded by the invading, conquering Roman Empire.
> They revolted against the Romans a couple of times.
> In 70 CE they lost badly.
> From 132 until 135 CE the Jewish revolt headed by Bar Kochba managed to keep the Romans out of their sovereign land.
> 
> Clearly they had arms, made arms, or got them somehow exactly because they knew that they would have to protect their land from the Romans who would want to take it back.
> No different than it had been during any other time before with the Philistines, Greeks, etc.
> One protects one's land as best as one can from invaders.
> 
> From 1920 to 1948, the Jews realized that being surrounded by some (not all) hostile Muslim Arabs - they would need weapons and to defend themselves.
> 
> It became much clearer by 1936, when the 1936-39 "war" happened between the Arabs and Jews.
> 
> There was not a time from 1920 to 1948 when Arabs were not rioting and attacking Jews at the incitement of the Husseini Clan.
> 
> Therefore, just like doing Roman times, the Jews had to find ways to arm themselves in order to protect themselves against the Arabs who did not want them to recreate their nation on their ancient land, just as the Jews had done before against the Greeks and Persians.
> 
> You speak as if the Jews, upon attempting to recreate their sovereign nation on their ancient land, should not have expected the Arabs to turn against them - which started in 1920 - or that the Jews should not have been able to think about acquiring weapons of any kind to protect themselves.
> 
> 
> 1948 was not 2017.
> 
> Israel then, did not have the weapons it has now.
> Nor did it have the weapons it had in 1973, 1967, or 1956.
> 
> Whichever weapons or tanks, etc the Jews were able to acquire, considering the danger which was more than clear after what was discovered happened to a huge number of Jews during WWII, they went ahead and acquired them.
> 
> Is there any difference in survival from the time against the Romans and the time now against the Muslims?
> 
> No.
> 
> Outnumbered, outgunned, they only had their need to survive to fight.
> 
> The Jews lost in 135 CE.
> 
> By one or more miracles, and the loss of more than 6000 Jews during the 1948.....it survived.
> 
> And it continues to survive......WHY?
> 
> Because the Jewish people have no other choice but to survive this time, considering not only the history of the past 100 years against Jews and Israel, but the whole history which has unfolded for the past 1700 years against Jews at any time, by any one who has decided that it is time to beat up Jews.
> 
> Do you have any other questions about the Jews' right to arm themselves in order to protect their lives and land and the sovereignty over their ancient homeland which they have every right to, regardless of the number of invaders wanting that land and put an end to them?
> 
> It is more than enough that the invaders got a hold of 80% of the ancient Jewish homeland (TranJordan and Gaza).
> 
> The rest belongs to the Jews, and it includes their most ancient land known as Judea and Samaria and their ancient 3000 year old capital known as Jerusalem.
> 
> Questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, my question is why do you think that I would not expect them to take up arms to defend themselves?
> 
> You talk as if you know what to expect from me, and the answers you give aren't in response to what I write, but in response to what you think I would have written were I anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish.
Click to expand...

Why do you think that they WOULD NOT have taken arms to defend themselves ?

And why do you put it as in "why do you think that I would not expect them to take up arms to defend themselves?"

That is such a deceitful question.

Why should it matter what you think about the Jewish people, or any other people taking up arms to defend themselves?

My answers are to encourage you to think beyond what you have read or been told.
Something you very clearly have no wish to do.  Think beyond.

Why are you the only one who does not seem to be able to realize that you are making a huge issue about the Jews having to take up arms against the aggressive Arabs?

"However it wasn't like they didn't have arms."

Is what you posted above.

Actually, the Jews should have taken up knitting and made some beautiful scarves for them.  Then, there might have been peace.

When a group of people swear to kill you and come at you with weapons, again and again......you take up arms to defend yourself.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Considering how much they were outnumbered and outgunned, sheer luck and lots of balls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Potentially. They had more to fight for.
> 
> However it wasn't like they didn't have arms.
> 
> 1948 Arab–Israeli War - Wikipedia
> 
> "In 1946, Ben-Gurion decided that the Yishuv would probably have to defend itself against both the Palestinian Arabs and neighbouring Arab states and accordingly began a "massive, covert arms acquisition campaign in the West", and acquired many more during the first few months of hostilities."
> 
> Though they probably weren't outnumber in terms of troops.
> 
> "The effective number of Arab combatants is listed at 12,000 by some historians[59] while others calculate a total Arab strength of approximately 23,500 troops, and with this being more of less or roughly equal to that of the Yishuv. However, as Israel mobilized most of its most able citizens during the war while the Arab troops were only a small percentage of its far greater population, the strength of the Yishuv grew steadily and dramatically during the war."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me make things simple for you.
> 
> 1900 years before, the Jewish people were surrounded by the invading, conquering Roman Empire.
> They revolted against the Romans a couple of times.
> In 70 CE they lost badly.
> From 132 until 135 CE the Jewish revolt headed by Bar Kochba managed to keep the Romans out of their sovereign land.
> 
> Clearly they had arms, made arms, or got them somehow exactly because they knew that they would have to protect their land from the Romans who would want to take it back.
> No different than it had been during any other time before with the Philistines, Greeks, etc.
> One protects one's land as best as one can from invaders.
> 
> From 1920 to 1948, the Jews realized that being surrounded by some (not all) hostile Muslim Arabs - they would need weapons and to defend themselves.
> 
> It became much clearer by 1936, when the 1936-39 "war" happened between the Arabs and Jews.
> 
> There was not a time from 1920 to 1948 when Arabs were not rioting and attacking Jews at the incitement of the Husseini Clan.
> 
> Therefore, just like doing Roman times, the Jews had to find ways to arm themselves in order to protect themselves against the Arabs who did not want them to recreate their nation on their ancient land, just as the Jews had done before against the Greeks and Persians.
> 
> You speak as if the Jews, upon attempting to recreate their sovereign nation on their ancient land, should not have expected the Arabs to turn against them - which started in 1920 - or that the Jews should not have been able to think about acquiring weapons of any kind to protect themselves.
> 
> 
> 1948 was not 2017.
> 
> Israel then, did not have the weapons it has now.
> Nor did it have the weapons it had in 1973, 1967, or 1956.
> 
> Whichever weapons or tanks, etc the Jews were able to acquire, considering the danger which was more than clear after what was discovered happened to a huge number of Jews during WWII, they went ahead and acquired them.
> 
> Is there any difference in survival from the time against the Romans and the time now against the Muslims?
> 
> No.
> 
> Outnumbered, outgunned, they only had their need to survive to fight.
> 
> The Jews lost in 135 CE.
> 
> By one or more miracles, and the loss of more than 6000 Jews during the 1948.....it survived.
> 
> And it continues to survive......WHY?
> 
> Because the Jewish people have no other choice but to survive this time, considering not only the history of the past 100 years against Jews and Israel, but the whole history which has unfolded for the past 1700 years against Jews at any time, by any one who has decided that it is time to beat up Jews.
> 
> Do you have any other questions about the Jews' right to arm themselves in order to protect their lives and land and the sovereignty over their ancient homeland which they have every right to, regardless of the number of invaders wanting that land and put an end to them?
> 
> It is more than enough that the invaders got a hold of 80% of the ancient Jewish homeland (TranJordan and Gaza).
> 
> The rest belongs to the Jews, and it includes their most ancient land known as Judea and Samaria and their ancient 3000 year old capital known as Jerusalem.
> 
> Questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, my question is why do you think that I would not expect them to take up arms to defend themselves?
> 
> You talk as if you know what to expect from me, and the answers you give aren't in response to what I write, but in response to what you think I would have written were I anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you think that they WOULD NOT have taken arms to defend themselves ?
> 
> And why do you put it as in "why do you think that I would not expect them to take up arms to defend themselves?"
> 
> That is such a deceitful question.
> 
> Why should it matter what you think about the Jewish people, or any other people taking up arms to defend themselves?
> 
> My answers are to encourage you to think beyond what you have read or been told.
> Something you very clearly have no wish to do.  Think beyond.
> 
> Why are you the only one who does not seem to be able to realize that you are making a huge issue about the Jews having to take up arms against the aggressive Arabs?
> 
> "However it wasn't like they didn't have arms."
> 
> Is what you posted above.
> 
> Actually, the Jews should have taken up knitting and made some beautiful scarves for them.  Then, there might have been peace.
> 
> When a group of people swear to kill you and come at you with weapons, again and again......you take up arms to defend yourself.
Click to expand...


Okay, the point here was that you're just making shit up about what you think I think.

I didn't say, and never have said, that Israel wouldn't take arms up to defend itself. 

So who the fuck are you arguing with?


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Considering how much they were outnumbered and outgunned, sheer luck and lots of balls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Potentially. They had more to fight for.
> 
> However it wasn't like they didn't have arms.
> 
> 1948 Arab–Israeli War - Wikipedia
> 
> "In 1946, Ben-Gurion decided that the Yishuv would probably have to defend itself against both the Palestinian Arabs and neighbouring Arab states and accordingly began a "massive, covert arms acquisition campaign in the West", and acquired many more during the first few months of hostilities."
> 
> Though they probably weren't outnumber in terms of troops.
> 
> "The effective number of Arab combatants is listed at 12,000 by some historians[59] while others calculate a total Arab strength of approximately 23,500 troops, and with this being more of less or roughly equal to that of the Yishuv. However, as Israel mobilized most of its most able citizens during the war while the Arab troops were only a small percentage of its far greater population, the strength of the Yishuv grew steadily and dramatically during the war."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me make things simple for you.
> 
> 1900 years before, the Jewish people were surrounded by the invading, conquering Roman Empire.
> They revolted against the Romans a couple of times.
> In 70 CE they lost badly.
> From 132 until 135 CE the Jewish revolt headed by Bar Kochba managed to keep the Romans out of their sovereign land.
> 
> Clearly they had arms, made arms, or got them somehow exactly because they knew that they would have to protect their land from the Romans who would want to take it back.
> No different than it had been during any other time before with the Philistines, Greeks, etc.
> One protects one's land as best as one can from invaders.
> 
> From 1920 to 1948, the Jews realized that being surrounded by some (not all) hostile Muslim Arabs - they would need weapons and to defend themselves.
> 
> It became much clearer by 1936, when the 1936-39 "war" happened between the Arabs and Jews.
> 
> There was not a time from 1920 to 1948 when Arabs were not rioting and attacking Jews at the incitement of the Husseini Clan.
> 
> Therefore, just like doing Roman times, the Jews had to find ways to arm themselves in order to protect themselves against the Arabs who did not want them to recreate their nation on their ancient land, just as the Jews had done before against the Greeks and Persians.
> 
> You speak as if the Jews, upon attempting to recreate their sovereign nation on their ancient land, should not have expected the Arabs to turn against them - which started in 1920 - or that the Jews should not have been able to think about acquiring weapons of any kind to protect themselves.
> 
> 
> 1948 was not 2017.
> 
> Israel then, did not have the weapons it has now.
> Nor did it have the weapons it had in 1973, 1967, or 1956.
> 
> Whichever weapons or tanks, etc the Jews were able to acquire, considering the danger which was more than clear after what was discovered happened to a huge number of Jews during WWII, they went ahead and acquired them.
> 
> Is there any difference in survival from the time against the Romans and the time now against the Muslims?
> 
> No.
> 
> Outnumbered, outgunned, they only had their need to survive to fight.
> 
> The Jews lost in 135 CE.
> 
> By one or more miracles, and the loss of more than 6000 Jews during the 1948.....it survived.
> 
> And it continues to survive......WHY?
> 
> Because the Jewish people have no other choice but to survive this time, considering not only the history of the past 100 years against Jews and Israel, but the whole history which has unfolded for the past 1700 years against Jews at any time, by any one who has decided that it is time to beat up Jews.
> 
> Do you have any other questions about the Jews' right to arm themselves in order to protect their lives and land and the sovereignty over their ancient homeland which they have every right to, regardless of the number of invaders wanting that land and put an end to them?
> 
> It is more than enough that the invaders got a hold of 80% of the ancient Jewish homeland (TranJordan and Gaza).
> 
> The rest belongs to the Jews, and it includes their most ancient land known as Judea and Samaria and their ancient 3000 year old capital known as Jerusalem.
> 
> Questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, my question is why do you think that I would not expect them to take up arms to defend themselves?
> 
> You talk as if you know what to expect from me, and the answers you give aren't in response to what I write, but in response to what you think I would have written were I anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you think that they WOULD NOT have taken arms to defend themselves ?
> 
> And why do you put it as in "why do you think that I would not expect them to take up arms to defend themselves?"
> 
> That is such a deceitful question.
> 
> Why should it matter what you think about the Jewish people, or any other people taking up arms to defend themselves?
> 
> My answers are to encourage you to think beyond what you have read or been told.
> Something you very clearly have no wish to do.  Think beyond.
> 
> Why are you the only one who does not seem to be able to realize that you are making a huge issue about the Jews having to take up arms against the aggressive Arabs?
> 
> "However it wasn't like they didn't have arms."
> 
> Is what you posted above.
> 
> Actually, the Jews should have taken up knitting and made some beautiful scarves for them.  Then, there might have been peace.
> 
> When a group of people swear to kill you and come at you with weapons, again and again......you take up arms to defend yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay, the point here was that you're just making shit up about what you think I think.
> 
> I didn't say, and never have said, that Israel wouldn't take arms up to defend itself.
> 
> So who the fuck are you arguing with?
Click to expand...

A smart aleck serpent.
With very poor command of English.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Potentially. They had more to fight for.
> 
> However it wasn't like they didn't have arms.
> 
> 1948 Arab–Israeli War - Wikipedia
> 
> "In 1946, Ben-Gurion decided that the Yishuv would probably have to defend itself against both the Palestinian Arabs and neighbouring Arab states and accordingly began a "massive, covert arms acquisition campaign in the West", and acquired many more during the first few months of hostilities."
> 
> Though they probably weren't outnumber in terms of troops.
> 
> "The effective number of Arab combatants is listed at 12,000 by some historians[59] while others calculate a total Arab strength of approximately 23,500 troops, and with this being more of less or roughly equal to that of the Yishuv. However, as Israel mobilized most of its most able citizens during the war while the Arab troops were only a small percentage of its far greater population, the strength of the Yishuv grew steadily and dramatically during the war."
> 
> 
> 
> Let me make things simple for you.
> 
> 1900 years before, the Jewish people were surrounded by the invading, conquering Roman Empire.
> They revolted against the Romans a couple of times.
> In 70 CE they lost badly.
> From 132 until 135 CE the Jewish revolt headed by Bar Kochba managed to keep the Romans out of their sovereign land.
> 
> Clearly they had arms, made arms, or got them somehow exactly because they knew that they would have to protect their land from the Romans who would want to take it back.
> No different than it had been during any other time before with the Philistines, Greeks, etc.
> One protects one's land as best as one can from invaders.
> 
> From 1920 to 1948, the Jews realized that being surrounded by some (not all) hostile Muslim Arabs - they would need weapons and to defend themselves.
> 
> It became much clearer by 1936, when the 1936-39 "war" happened between the Arabs and Jews.
> 
> There was not a time from 1920 to 1948 when Arabs were not rioting and attacking Jews at the incitement of the Husseini Clan.
> 
> Therefore, just like doing Roman times, the Jews had to find ways to arm themselves in order to protect themselves against the Arabs who did not want them to recreate their nation on their ancient land, just as the Jews had done before against the Greeks and Persians.
> 
> You speak as if the Jews, upon attempting to recreate their sovereign nation on their ancient land, should not have expected the Arabs to turn against them - which started in 1920 - or that the Jews should not have been able to think about acquiring weapons of any kind to protect themselves.
> 
> 
> 1948 was not 2017.
> 
> Israel then, did not have the weapons it has now.
> Nor did it have the weapons it had in 1973, 1967, or 1956.
> 
> Whichever weapons or tanks, etc the Jews were able to acquire, considering the danger which was more than clear after what was discovered happened to a huge number of Jews during WWII, they went ahead and acquired them.
> 
> Is there any difference in survival from the time against the Romans and the time now against the Muslims?
> 
> No.
> 
> Outnumbered, outgunned, they only had their need to survive to fight.
> 
> The Jews lost in 135 CE.
> 
> By one or more miracles, and the loss of more than 6000 Jews during the 1948.....it survived.
> 
> And it continues to survive......WHY?
> 
> Because the Jewish people have no other choice but to survive this time, considering not only the history of the past 100 years against Jews and Israel, but the whole history which has unfolded for the past 1700 years against Jews at any time, by any one who has decided that it is time to beat up Jews.
> 
> Do you have any other questions about the Jews' right to arm themselves in order to protect their lives and land and the sovereignty over their ancient homeland which they have every right to, regardless of the number of invaders wanting that land and put an end to them?
> 
> It is more than enough that the invaders got a hold of 80% of the ancient Jewish homeland (TranJordan and Gaza).
> 
> The rest belongs to the Jews, and it includes their most ancient land known as Judea and Samaria and their ancient 3000 year old capital known as Jerusalem.
> 
> Questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, my question is why do you think that I would not expect them to take up arms to defend themselves?
> 
> You talk as if you know what to expect from me, and the answers you give aren't in response to what I write, but in response to what you think I would have written were I anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you think that they WOULD NOT have taken arms to defend themselves ?
> 
> And why do you put it as in "why do you think that I would not expect them to take up arms to defend themselves?"
> 
> That is such a deceitful question.
> 
> Why should it matter what you think about the Jewish people, or any other people taking up arms to defend themselves?
> 
> My answers are to encourage you to think beyond what you have read or been told.
> Something you very clearly have no wish to do.  Think beyond.
> 
> Why are you the only one who does not seem to be able to realize that you are making a huge issue about the Jews having to take up arms against the aggressive Arabs?
> 
> "However it wasn't like they didn't have arms."
> 
> Is what you posted above.
> 
> Actually, the Jews should have taken up knitting and made some beautiful scarves for them.  Then, there might have been peace.
> 
> When a group of people swear to kill you and come at you with weapons, again and again......you take up arms to defend yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay, the point here was that you're just making shit up about what you think I think.
> 
> I didn't say, and never have said, that Israel wouldn't take arms up to defend itself.
> 
> So who the fuck are you arguing with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A smart aleck serpent.
> With very poor command of English.
Click to expand...


It's not your fault. 

Hey, we can spend all day doing this.

Or you could actually discuss with me what I actually said, rather than what I didn't say.

What I didn't say was that Israel wouldn't or shouldn't take up arms to defend itself. 

Is that clear? Or are we just going to have to keep attacking me for positions I don't hold?


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me make things simple for you.
> 
> 1900 years before, the Jewish people were surrounded by the invading, conquering Roman Empire.
> They revolted against the Romans a couple of times.
> In 70 CE they lost badly.
> From 132 until 135 CE the Jewish revolt headed by Bar Kochba managed to keep the Romans out of their sovereign land.
> 
> Clearly they had arms, made arms, or got them somehow exactly because they knew that they would have to protect their land from the Romans who would want to take it back.
> No different than it had been during any other time before with the Philistines, Greeks, etc.
> One protects one's land as best as one can from invaders.
> 
> From 1920 to 1948, the Jews realized that being surrounded by some (not all) hostile Muslim Arabs - they would need weapons and to defend themselves.
> 
> It became much clearer by 1936, when the 1936-39 "war" happened between the Arabs and Jews.
> 
> There was not a time from 1920 to 1948 when Arabs were not rioting and attacking Jews at the incitement of the Husseini Clan.
> 
> Therefore, just like doing Roman times, the Jews had to find ways to arm themselves in order to protect themselves against the Arabs who did not want them to recreate their nation on their ancient land, just as the Jews had done before against the Greeks and Persians.
> 
> You speak as if the Jews, upon attempting to recreate their sovereign nation on their ancient land, should not have expected the Arabs to turn against them - which started in 1920 - or that the Jews should not have been able to think about acquiring weapons of any kind to protect themselves.
> 
> 
> 1948 was not 2017.
> 
> Israel then, did not have the weapons it has now.
> Nor did it have the weapons it had in 1973, 1967, or 1956.
> 
> Whichever weapons or tanks, etc the Jews were able to acquire, considering the danger which was more than clear after what was discovered happened to a huge number of Jews during WWII, they went ahead and acquired them.
> 
> Is there any difference in survival from the time against the Romans and the time now against the Muslims?
> 
> No.
> 
> Outnumbered, outgunned, they only had their need to survive to fight.
> 
> The Jews lost in 135 CE.
> 
> By one or more miracles, and the loss of more than 6000 Jews during the 1948.....it survived.
> 
> And it continues to survive......WHY?
> 
> Because the Jewish people have no other choice but to survive this time, considering not only the history of the past 100 years against Jews and Israel, but the whole history which has unfolded for the past 1700 years against Jews at any time, by any one who has decided that it is time to beat up Jews.
> 
> Do you have any other questions about the Jews' right to arm themselves in order to protect their lives and land and the sovereignty over their ancient homeland which they have every right to, regardless of the number of invaders wanting that land and put an end to them?
> 
> It is more than enough that the invaders got a hold of 80% of the ancient Jewish homeland (TranJordan and Gaza).
> 
> The rest belongs to the Jews, and it includes their most ancient land known as Judea and Samaria and their ancient 3000 year old capital known as Jerusalem.
> 
> Questions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, my question is why do you think that I would not expect them to take up arms to defend themselves?
> 
> You talk as if you know what to expect from me, and the answers you give aren't in response to what I write, but in response to what you think I would have written were I anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you think that they WOULD NOT have taken arms to defend themselves ?
> 
> And why do you put it as in "why do you think that I would not expect them to take up arms to defend themselves?"
> 
> That is such a deceitful question.
> 
> Why should it matter what you think about the Jewish people, or any other people taking up arms to defend themselves?
> 
> My answers are to encourage you to think beyond what you have read or been told.
> Something you very clearly have no wish to do.  Think beyond.
> 
> Why are you the only one who does not seem to be able to realize that you are making a huge issue about the Jews having to take up arms against the aggressive Arabs?
> 
> "However it wasn't like they didn't have arms."
> 
> Is what you posted above.
> 
> Actually, the Jews should have taken up knitting and made some beautiful scarves for them.  Then, there might have been peace.
> 
> When a group of people swear to kill you and come at you with weapons, again and again......you take up arms to defend yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay, the point here was that you're just making shit up about what you think I think.
> 
> I didn't say, and never have said, that Israel wouldn't take arms up to defend itself.
> 
> So who the fuck are you arguing with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A smart aleck serpent.
> With very poor command of English.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not your fault.
> 
> Hey, we can spend all day doing this.
> 
> Or you could actually discuss with me what I actually said, rather than what I didn't say.
> 
> What I didn't say was that Israel wouldn't or shouldn't take up arms to defend itself.
> 
> Is that clear? Or are we just going to have to keep attacking me for positions I don't hold?
Click to expand...

This is what you said:

"So, are you saying this just happened? That Israel didn't expect a war? How did they win the war if they didn't have an army in the first place?"

So, it was tried to explain to you that from 1920 to 1948, because of the endless attacks on the Jewish community, the Jews began to build up their weapons, and organize themselves as an army. British Captain Wingate was very instrumental in that, by the way.  One of the only British to help the Jews (Just an historical fact and oddity, considering how the British really behaved).

Teddy told you that even though Israel was outnumbered and outgunned, that the Jews persevered out of sheer balls.
And I explained it as well, that they had no other choice but to survive.

Outgunned, outnumbered, without a real army to speak of, unlike Jordan and the other Arab countries which were also being aided by the British........but with some tanks and weapons they had acquired.....

Israel won.

As the saying goes:

"By the skin of its teeth"

And that is all there is to it.


----------



## fncceo

frigidweirdo said:


> Hey, we can spend all day doing this.



Please don't.


----------



## Indeependent

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, my question is why do you think that I would not expect them to take up arms to defend themselves?
> 
> You talk as if you know what to expect from me, and the answers you give aren't in response to what I write, but in response to what you think I would have written were I anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you think that they WOULD NOT have taken arms to defend themselves ?
> 
> And why do you put it as in "why do you think that I would not expect them to take up arms to defend themselves?"
> 
> That is such a deceitful question.
> 
> Why should it matter what you think about the Jewish people, or any other people taking up arms to defend themselves?
> 
> My answers are to encourage you to think beyond what you have read or been told.
> Something you very clearly have no wish to do.  Think beyond.
> 
> Why are you the only one who does not seem to be able to realize that you are making a huge issue about the Jews having to take up arms against the aggressive Arabs?
> 
> "However it wasn't like they didn't have arms."
> 
> Is what you posted above.
> 
> Actually, the Jews should have taken up knitting and made some beautiful scarves for them.  Then, there might have been peace.
> 
> When a group of people swear to kill you and come at you with weapons, again and again......you take up arms to defend yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay, the point here was that you're just making shit up about what you think I think.
> 
> I didn't say, and never have said, that Israel wouldn't take arms up to defend itself.
> 
> So who the fuck are you arguing with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A smart aleck serpent.
> With very poor command of English.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not your fault.
> 
> Hey, we can spend all day doing this.
> 
> Or you could actually discuss with me what I actually said, rather than what I didn't say.
> 
> What I didn't say was that Israel wouldn't or shouldn't take up arms to defend itself.
> 
> Is that clear? Or are we just going to have to keep attacking me for positions I don't hold?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is what you said:
> 
> "So, are you saying this just happened? That Israel didn't expect a war? How did they win the war if they didn't have an army in the first place?"
> 
> So, it was tried to explain to you that from 1920 to 1948, because of the endless attacks on the Jewish community, the Jews began to build up their weapons, and organize themselves as an army. British Captain Wingate was very instrumental in that, by the way.  One of the only British to help the Jews (Just an historical fact and oddity, considering how the British really behaved).
> 
> Teddy told you that even though Israel was outnumbered and outgunned, that the Jews persevered out of sheer balls.
> And I explained it as well, that they had no other choice but to survive.
> 
> Outgunned, outnumbered, without a real army to speak of, unlike Jordan and the other Arab countries which were also being aided by the British........but with some tanks and weapons they had acquired.....
> 
> Israel won.
> 
> As the saying goes:
> 
> "By the skin of its teeth"
> 
> And that is all there is to it.
Click to expand...

I see you are educating someone who I have on Ignore or has me on Ignore.
Who's the jackass?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Indeependent said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you think that they WOULD NOT have taken arms to defend themselves ?
> 
> And why do you put it as in "why do you think that I would not expect them to take up arms to defend themselves?"
> 
> That is such a deceitful question.
> 
> Why should it matter what you think about the Jewish people, or any other people taking up arms to defend themselves?
> 
> My answers are to encourage you to think beyond what you have read or been told.
> Something you very clearly have no wish to do.  Think beyond.
> 
> Why are you the only one who does not seem to be able to realize that you are making a huge issue about the Jews having to take up arms against the aggressive Arabs?
> 
> "However it wasn't like they didn't have arms."
> 
> Is what you posted above.
> 
> Actually, the Jews should have taken up knitting and made some beautiful scarves for them.  Then, there might have been peace.
> 
> When a group of people swear to kill you and come at you with weapons, again and again......you take up arms to defend yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, the point here was that you're just making shit up about what you think I think.
> 
> I didn't say, and never have said, that Israel wouldn't take arms up to defend itself.
> 
> So who the fuck are you arguing with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A smart aleck serpent.
> With very poor command of English.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not your fault.
> 
> Hey, we can spend all day doing this.
> 
> Or you could actually discuss with me what I actually said, rather than what I didn't say.
> 
> What I didn't say was that Israel wouldn't or shouldn't take up arms to defend itself.
> 
> Is that clear? Or are we just going to have to keep attacking me for positions I don't hold?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is what you said:
> 
> "So, are you saying this just happened? That Israel didn't expect a war? How did they win the war if they didn't have an army in the first place?"
> 
> So, it was tried to explain to you that from 1920 to 1948, because of the endless attacks on the Jewish community, the Jews began to build up their weapons, and organize themselves as an army. British Captain Wingate was very instrumental in that, by the way.  One of the only British to help the Jews (Just an historical fact and oddity, considering how the British really behaved).
> 
> Teddy told you that even though Israel was outnumbered and outgunned, that the Jews persevered out of sheer balls.
> And I explained it as well, that they had no other choice but to survive.
> 
> Outgunned, outnumbered, without a real army to speak of, unlike Jordan and the other Arab countries which were also being aided by the British........but with some tanks and weapons they had acquired.....
> 
> Israel won.
> 
> As the saying goes:
> 
> "By the skin of its teeth"
> 
> And that is all there is to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I see you are educating someone who I have on Ignore or has me on Ignore.
> Who's the jackass?
Click to expand...

Can you not tell by its picture? 
Doesn't it look like that serpent from the Garden of Eden?


----------



## Indeependent

Sixties Fan said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, the point here was that you're just making shit up about what you think I think.
> 
> I didn't say, and never have said, that Israel wouldn't take arms up to defend itself.
> 
> So who the fuck are you arguing with?
> 
> 
> 
> A smart aleck serpent.
> With very poor command of English.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not your fault.
> 
> Hey, we can spend all day doing this.
> 
> Or you could actually discuss with me what I actually said, rather than what I didn't say.
> 
> What I didn't say was that Israel wouldn't or shouldn't take up arms to defend itself.
> 
> Is that clear? Or are we just going to have to keep attacking me for positions I don't hold?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is what you said:
> 
> "So, are you saying this just happened? That Israel didn't expect a war? How did they win the war if they didn't have an army in the first place?"
> 
> So, it was tried to explain to you that from 1920 to 1948, because of the endless attacks on the Jewish community, the Jews began to build up their weapons, and organize themselves as an army. British Captain Wingate was very instrumental in that, by the way.  One of the only British to help the Jews (Just an historical fact and oddity, considering how the British really behaved).
> 
> Teddy told you that even though Israel was outnumbered and outgunned, that the Jews persevered out of sheer balls.
> And I explained it as well, that they had no other choice but to survive.
> 
> Outgunned, outnumbered, without a real army to speak of, unlike Jordan and the other Arab countries which were also being aided by the British........but with some tanks and weapons they had acquired.....
> 
> Israel won.
> 
> As the saying goes:
> 
> "By the skin of its teeth"
> 
> And that is all there is to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I see you are educating someone who I have on Ignore or has me on Ignore.
> Who's the jackass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you not tell by its picture?
Click to expand...

Whoever *It* is probably has me on Ignore; so who is it?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Indeependent said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> A smart aleck serpent.
> With very poor command of English.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not your fault.
> 
> Hey, we can spend all day doing this.
> 
> Or you could actually discuss with me what I actually said, rather than what I didn't say.
> 
> What I didn't say was that Israel wouldn't or shouldn't take up arms to defend itself.
> 
> Is that clear? Or are we just going to have to keep attacking me for positions I don't hold?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is what you said:
> 
> "So, are you saying this just happened? That Israel didn't expect a war? How did they win the war if they didn't have an army in the first place?"
> 
> So, it was tried to explain to you that from 1920 to 1948, because of the endless attacks on the Jewish community, the Jews began to build up their weapons, and organize themselves as an army. British Captain Wingate was very instrumental in that, by the way.  One of the only British to help the Jews (Just an historical fact and oddity, considering how the British really behaved).
> 
> Teddy told you that even though Israel was outnumbered and outgunned, that the Jews persevered out of sheer balls.
> And I explained it as well, that they had no other choice but to survive.
> 
> Outgunned, outnumbered, without a real army to speak of, unlike Jordan and the other Arab countries which were also being aided by the British........but with some tanks and weapons they had acquired.....
> 
> Israel won.
> 
> As the saying goes:
> 
> "By the skin of its teeth"
> 
> And that is all there is to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I see you are educating someone who I have on Ignore or has me on Ignore.
> Who's the jackass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you not tell by its picture?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whoever *It* is probably has me on Ignore; so who is it?
Click to expand...

Frigidweirdo
Rings a bell?


----------



## Indeependent

Sixties Fan said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not your fault.
> 
> Hey, we can spend all day doing this.
> 
> Or you could actually discuss with me what I actually said, rather than what I didn't say.
> 
> What I didn't say was that Israel wouldn't or shouldn't take up arms to defend itself.
> 
> Is that clear? Or are we just going to have to keep attacking me for positions I don't hold?
> 
> 
> 
> This is what you said:
> 
> "So, are you saying this just happened? That Israel didn't expect a war? How did they win the war if they didn't have an army in the first place?"
> 
> So, it was tried to explain to you that from 1920 to 1948, because of the endless attacks on the Jewish community, the Jews began to build up their weapons, and organize themselves as an army. British Captain Wingate was very instrumental in that, by the way.  One of the only British to help the Jews (Just an historical fact and oddity, considering how the British really behaved).
> 
> Teddy told you that even though Israel was outnumbered and outgunned, that the Jews persevered out of sheer balls.
> And I explained it as well, that they had no other choice but to survive.
> 
> Outgunned, outnumbered, without a real army to speak of, unlike Jordan and the other Arab countries which were also being aided by the British........but with some tanks and weapons they had acquired.....
> 
> Israel won.
> 
> As the saying goes:
> 
> "By the skin of its teeth"
> 
> And that is all there is to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I see you are educating someone who I have on Ignore or has me on Ignore.
> Who's the jackass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you not tell by its picture?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whoever *It* is probably has me on Ignore; so who is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Frigidweirdo
> Rings a bell?
Click to expand...

Super, ultra, irrational, American hating, Progressive piece of shit.
It took about 2 exchanges and I put psycho on Ignore.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Indeependent said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is what you said:
> 
> "So, are you saying this just happened? That Israel didn't expect a war? How did they win the war if they didn't have an army in the first place?"
> 
> So, it was tried to explain to you that from 1920 to 1948, because of the endless attacks on the Jewish community, the Jews began to build up their weapons, and organize themselves as an army. British Captain Wingate was very instrumental in that, by the way.  One of the only British to help the Jews (Just an historical fact and oddity, considering how the British really behaved).
> 
> Teddy told you that even though Israel was outnumbered and outgunned, that the Jews persevered out of sheer balls.
> And I explained it as well, that they had no other choice but to survive.
> 
> Outgunned, outnumbered, without a real army to speak of, unlike Jordan and the other Arab countries which were also being aided by the British........but with some tanks and weapons they had acquired.....
> 
> Israel won.
> 
> As the saying goes:
> 
> "By the skin of its teeth"
> 
> And that is all there is to it.
> 
> 
> 
> I see you are educating someone who I have on Ignore or has me on Ignore.
> Who's the jackass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you not tell by its picture?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whoever *It* is probably has me on Ignore; so who is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Frigidweirdo
> Rings a bell?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Super, ultra, irrational, American hating, Progressive piece of shit.
> It took about 2 exchanges and I put psycho on Ignore.
Click to expand...

You are right about each and every one of your points


----------



## Indeependent

Sixties Fan said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see you are educating someone who I have on Ignore or has me on Ignore.
> Who's the jackass?
> 
> 
> 
> Can you not tell by its picture?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whoever *It* is probably has me on Ignore; so who is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Frigidweirdo
> Rings a bell?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Super, ultra, irrational, American hating, Progressive piece of shit.
> It took about 2 exchanges and I put psycho on Ignore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are right about each and every one of your points
Click to expand...

FW isn't worth the bandwidth.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, my question is why do you think that I would not expect them to take up arms to defend themselves?
> 
> You talk as if you know what to expect from me, and the answers you give aren't in response to what I write, but in response to what you think I would have written were I anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you think that they WOULD NOT have taken arms to defend themselves ?
> 
> And why do you put it as in "why do you think that I would not expect them to take up arms to defend themselves?"
> 
> That is such a deceitful question.
> 
> Why should it matter what you think about the Jewish people, or any other people taking up arms to defend themselves?
> 
> My answers are to encourage you to think beyond what you have read or been told.
> Something you very clearly have no wish to do.  Think beyond.
> 
> Why are you the only one who does not seem to be able to realize that you are making a huge issue about the Jews having to take up arms against the aggressive Arabs?
> 
> "However it wasn't like they didn't have arms."
> 
> Is what you posted above.
> 
> Actually, the Jews should have taken up knitting and made some beautiful scarves for them.  Then, there might have been peace.
> 
> When a group of people swear to kill you and come at you with weapons, again and again......you take up arms to defend yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay, the point here was that you're just making shit up about what you think I think.
> 
> I didn't say, and never have said, that Israel wouldn't take arms up to defend itself.
> 
> So who the fuck are you arguing with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A smart aleck serpent.
> With very poor command of English.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not your fault.
> 
> Hey, we can spend all day doing this.
> 
> Or you could actually discuss with me what I actually said, rather than what I didn't say.
> 
> What I didn't say was that Israel wouldn't or shouldn't take up arms to defend itself.
> 
> Is that clear? Or are we just going to have to keep attacking me for positions I don't hold?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is what you said:
> 
> "So, are you saying this just happened? That Israel didn't expect a war? How did they win the war if they didn't have an army in the first place?"
> 
> So, it was tried to explain to you that from 1920 to 1948, because of the endless attacks on the Jewish community, the Jews began to build up their weapons, and organize themselves as an army. British Captain Wingate was very instrumental in that, by the way.  One of the only British to help the Jews (Just an historical fact and oddity, considering how the British really behaved).
> 
> Teddy told you that even though Israel was outnumbered and outgunned, that the Jews persevered out of sheer balls.
> And I explained it as well, that they had no other choice but to survive.
> 
> Outgunned, outnumbered, without a real army to speak of, unlike Jordan and the other Arab countries which were also being aided by the British........but with some tanks and weapons they had acquired.....
> 
> Israel won.
> 
> As the saying goes:
> 
> "By the skin of its teeth"
> 
> And that is all there is to it.
Click to expand...


So, I asked a question, and you then decided that the question I asked was what I thought. Well done.

Really, I can't be bothered with this nonsense.


----------



## Sixties Fan

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you think that they WOULD NOT have taken arms to defend themselves ?
> 
> And why do you put it as in "why do you think that I would not expect them to take up arms to defend themselves?"
> 
> That is such a deceitful question.
> 
> Why should it matter what you think about the Jewish people, or any other people taking up arms to defend themselves?
> 
> My answers are to encourage you to think beyond what you have read or been told.
> Something you very clearly have no wish to do.  Think beyond.
> 
> Why are you the only one who does not seem to be able to realize that you are making a huge issue about the Jews having to take up arms against the aggressive Arabs?
> 
> "However it wasn't like they didn't have arms."
> 
> Is what you posted above.
> 
> Actually, the Jews should have taken up knitting and made some beautiful scarves for them.  Then, there might have been peace.
> 
> When a group of people swear to kill you and come at you with weapons, again and again......you take up arms to defend yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, the point here was that you're just making shit up about what you think I think.
> 
> I didn't say, and never have said, that Israel wouldn't take arms up to defend itself.
> 
> So who the fuck are you arguing with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A smart aleck serpent.
> With very poor command of English.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not your fault.
> 
> Hey, we can spend all day doing this.
> 
> Or you could actually discuss with me what I actually said, rather than what I didn't say.
> 
> What I didn't say was that Israel wouldn't or shouldn't take up arms to defend itself.
> 
> Is that clear? Or are we just going to have to keep attacking me for positions I don't hold?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is what you said:
> 
> "So, are you saying this just happened? That Israel didn't expect a war? How did they win the war if they didn't have an army in the first place?"
> 
> So, it was tried to explain to you that from 1920 to 1948, because of the endless attacks on the Jewish community, the Jews began to build up their weapons, and organize themselves as an army. British Captain Wingate was very instrumental in that, by the way.  One of the only British to help the Jews (Just an historical fact and oddity, considering how the British really behaved).
> 
> Teddy told you that even though Israel was outnumbered and outgunned, that the Jews persevered out of sheer balls.
> And I explained it as well, that they had no other choice but to survive.
> 
> Outgunned, outnumbered, without a real army to speak of, unlike Jordan and the other Arab countries which were also being aided by the British........but with some tanks and weapons they had acquired.....
> 
> Israel won.
> 
> As the saying goes:
> 
> "By the skin of its teeth"
> 
> And that is all there is to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, I asked a question, and you then decided that the question I asked was what I thought. Well done.
> 
> Really, I can't be bothered with this nonsense.
Click to expand...

That is what you said before and voila, you came back.

Make sure you find another hobby this time


----------



## frigidweirdo

Sixties Fan said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, the point here was that you're just making shit up about what you think I think.
> 
> I didn't say, and never have said, that Israel wouldn't take arms up to defend itself.
> 
> So who the fuck are you arguing with?
> 
> 
> 
> A smart aleck serpent.
> With very poor command of English.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not your fault.
> 
> Hey, we can spend all day doing this.
> 
> Or you could actually discuss with me what I actually said, rather than what I didn't say.
> 
> What I didn't say was that Israel wouldn't or shouldn't take up arms to defend itself.
> 
> Is that clear? Or are we just going to have to keep attacking me for positions I don't hold?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is what you said:
> 
> "So, are you saying this just happened? That Israel didn't expect a war? How did they win the war if they didn't have an army in the first place?"
> 
> So, it was tried to explain to you that from 1920 to 1948, because of the endless attacks on the Jewish community, the Jews began to build up their weapons, and organize themselves as an army. British Captain Wingate was very instrumental in that, by the way.  One of the only British to help the Jews (Just an historical fact and oddity, considering how the British really behaved).
> 
> Teddy told you that even though Israel was outnumbered and outgunned, that the Jews persevered out of sheer balls.
> And I explained it as well, that they had no other choice but to survive.
> 
> Outgunned, outnumbered, without a real army to speak of, unlike Jordan and the other Arab countries which were also being aided by the British........but with some tanks and weapons they had acquired.....
> 
> Israel won.
> 
> As the saying goes:
> 
> "By the skin of its teeth"
> 
> And that is all there is to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, I asked a question, and you then decided that the question I asked was what I thought. Well done.
> 
> Really, I can't be bothered with this nonsense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is what you said before and voila, you came back.
> 
> Make sure you find another hobby this time
Click to expand...


Ignore list then. Bye.


----------



## fanger

Sixties Fan said:


> Arab Palestinians are Arabs.
> 
> It is so simple that even all of the ancient tribes in ancient Canaan agree


----------



## Sixties Fan

Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida - Feb. 9, 2017


















_Headline_: *"Israel is the settlement"*
_
Excerpt of an op-ed by Yahya Rabah, regular columnist for the official PA daily
_
     "All of Israel, from its beginning to its end, is a settlement, a land [they] hold by force without any legitimacy. Whether by dividing the land of a sick man (Ottoman Turkey) [parentheses in source] in the days of [the] Sykes-Picot [Agreement], the wall and tower and laundry line phenomenon as a declaration of the establishment of a settlement, or using all the force of the British Mandate in order to obtain this land under the umbrella of the first sin – the ominous Balfour Promise (i.e., Declaration), whose 100th anniversary will take place [soon]. In addition to this, Britain is now increasing its aggression and moral degeneration by organizing a large celebration for this event and inviting [Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu to be a guest of honor at this shameful celebration.

Even when the world conspired to turn the folklore myths into Jewish history and issued [UN] Partition Resolution 181, the Zionist movement refused to be satisfied with the international decision and insisted on the logic of settlement, which is theft of our Palestinian land by force, the force of scheming, the force of deceit in many forms, and the force of the weapon, iron, fire, and abominable massacres. 

(full article online)

Op-ed in official PA daily denies Israel’s legitimacy: "All of Israel, from beginning to end, is a settlement," denies Jewish history as "myths" - Jewish history in Land of Israel erased | PMW


----------



## Sixties Fan

And, no, the Palestinians are not descendants of the Canaanites. (Some Lebanese are, though.) Most Palestinian Arabs are quite proudly Arab, as they say in their own founding documents, and Arabs come from Arabia. Most Palestinian families trace their lineage back to Arabia.

" We will not accept [Trump's] project, and we told him the deal of the century is a slap in the face, but we will slap back."

Will the people who have interpreted Israeli settlement activities over the years as a slap in the face of America criticize Abbas for literally saying he will slap America in the face? Amusingly, Saeb Erekat has repeatedly used the phrase"slap in the face" when talking to American leaders about Israeli actions - one wonders if he suddenly approves of face slapping America.

" [Zionism is] a colonial project has nothing to do with Judaism, but the Jews used [Judaism] as a tool.... They were under the slogan of the Promised Land and the land of love and they came here. The issue did not start a hundred years ago. It started much earlier in 1653 when Cromwell ruled Britain."

The idea of Jews returning to Zion is as old as the Jewish disapora. Do I need to quote prayers that were composed before Mohammed was born?

 Do I really need to mention the rabbis who moved back to Eretz Yisrael over the past 2000 years?

Zionism did not start with Cromwell.

(full arcticle online)

Fisking Mahmoud Abbas' speech in Ramallah, part 1 ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

During his speech yesterday, Mahmoud Abbas gave a long review of what he considers history, and he introduced it by saying that it came from Abdelwahab Elmessiri's "Encyclopedia of Jews, Judaism and Zionism," an eight-volume work praised by antisemites for its seeming scholarship. (I've looked at Elmessiri before.)

Abbas introduced this section of his speech with a quote from Elmessiri,_ "The functional nature of Israel means that it was created by the colonialism for a specific purpose. It is thus a colonial project that has nothing to do with Judaism"._

In going through his bizarre history of Zionism, Abbas claims that Theodor Herzl said upon visiting Palestine, "We have to erase the Palestinians from Palestine to make Palestine as a land without people for a people without a land", and this was the basis of the slogan " a land without a people for a people without a land."

This is complete fiction. 

Abbas praised the Mufti of Jerusalem in this speech, who colluded with Hitler to help in any way he could to exterminate the Jews. Does anything more need to be said?

(full article online)

Fisking Abbas' lies in his speech in Ramallah, part 2 ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

_In an article he published on August 4, 2017 in the Omani _Al-Watan_ daily, Palestinian journalist Jawad Al-Bashiti, who resides in Jordan, wrote that Judaism has been a "religion of hatred" toward all mankind for the past 3,000 years, and that the Jews invented a god of their own who, they claim, instructs them to take the gentiles' property and to kill their elderly, women, and infants. Al-Bashiti concluded his article by saying that, if the Jews' "delusions" remain fixed in the minds of the "new Israelis," Nazism will seem like "a drop in the ocean of the Talmudic beastliness." It should be noted that slightly different versions of this article have been published in the past.[1]_

(full article online)

Palestinian Journalist: Judaism Has Been A 'Religion Of Hatred' Toward All Mankind For The Past 3,000 Years That Surpasses Nazism In Its Cruelty


----------



## Sixties Fan

Dir. of Tourism and Antiquities of Jordanian Waqf: No archaeological proof there was Jewish presence in Jerusalem, Israel ignores Arab Islamic heritage, tries to erase it - All media


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA Ministry of Information: Jews attempt to "plunder the forefathers' heritage and pass off a fake Israeli narrative full of holes" 

Source: Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Oct. 6, 2016

_Headline:_ “Ministry of Information: The Palestinian heritage is stronger than the Judaization”
     “The [PA] Ministry of Information considered Palestinian Heritage Day – Oct. 7 – to be a rebellion against the Judaization despite the occupation’s terror that targets our heritage and [the occupation’s] falsification of it… The ministry said that the war on the national clothing, traditional foods, trees, fruits, birds, rocks, and land constitute a continuation of the desperate Israeli attempts to plunder the forefathers’ heritage and pass off a fake Israeli narrative full of holes. Likewise, the ministry praised the decision of the previous [Palestinian] government to adopt the northern orange-tufted sunbird as a national bird and the iris haynei as a national flower of our freedom-deprived land, due to the symbolism and importance of the matter for the struggle against the Israelization.”

All media


----------



## fanger

Sixties Fan said:


> PA Ministry of Information: Jews attempt to "plunder the forefathers' heritage and pass off a fake Israeli narrative full of holes"
> 
> Source: Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Oct. 6, 2016
> 
> _Headline:_ “Ministry of Information: The Palestinian heritage is stronger than the Judaization”
> “The [PA] Ministry of Information considered Palestinian Heritage Day – Oct. 7 – to be a rebellion against the Judaization despite the occupation’s terror that targets our heritage and [the occupation’s] falsification of it… The ministry said that the war on the national clothing, traditional foods, trees, fruits, birds, rocks, and land constitute a continuation of the desperate Israeli attempts to plunder the forefathers’ heritage and pass off a fake Israeli narrative full of holes. Likewise, the ministry praised the decision of the previous [Palestinian] government to adopt the northern orange-tufted sunbird as a national bird and the iris haynei as a national flower of our freedom-deprived land, due to the symbolism and importance of the matter for the struggle against the Israelization.”
> 
> All media


REGISTRANT CONTACT
Name:
Ilan Mazuz

Organization:
PMW

Street:
61 Malchei Israel ST.

City:
Netivot

Postal Code:
87733

Country:
IL


----------



## Sixties Fan

fanger said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> PA Ministry of Information: Jews attempt to "plunder the forefathers' heritage and pass off a fake Israeli narrative full of holes"
> 
> Source: Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Oct. 6, 2016
> 
> _Headline:_ “Ministry of Information: The Palestinian heritage is stronger than the Judaization”
> “The [PA] Ministry of Information considered Palestinian Heritage Day – Oct. 7 – to be a rebellion against the Judaization despite the occupation’s terror that targets our heritage and [the occupation’s] falsification of it… The ministry said that the war on the national clothing, traditional foods, trees, fruits, birds, rocks, and land constitute a continuation of the desperate Israeli attempts to plunder the forefathers’ heritage and pass off a fake Israeli narrative full of holes. Likewise, the ministry praised the decision of the previous [Palestinian] government to adopt the northern orange-tufted sunbird as a national bird and the iris haynei as a national flower of our freedom-deprived land, due to the symbolism and importance of the matter for the struggle against the Israelization.”
> 
> All media
> 
> 
> 
> REGISTRANT CONTACT
> Name:
> Ilan Mazuz
> 
> Organization:
> PMW
> 
> Street:
> 61 Malchei Israel ST.
> 
> City:
> Netivot
> 
> Postal Code:
> 87733
> 
> Country:
> IL
Click to expand...

Try dealing with what the Arabs keep doing, which is to deny any Jewish History on the Land of Israel.

The sources for each article are there.  They are from Hamas, Fatah, the PA, Abbas, etc.

Deal with what they have posted on facebook, on their official sites, etc.


----------



## fanger

Sixties Fan said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> PA Ministry of Information: Jews attempt to "plunder the forefathers' heritage and pass off a fake Israeli narrative full of holes"
> 
> Source: Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Oct. 6, 2016
> 
> _Headline:_ “Ministry of Information: The Palestinian heritage is stronger than the Judaization”
> “The [PA] Ministry of Information considered Palestinian Heritage Day – Oct. 7 – to be a rebellion against the Judaization despite the occupation’s terror that targets our heritage and [the occupation’s] falsification of it… The ministry said that the war on the national clothing, traditional foods, trees, fruits, birds, rocks, and land constitute a continuation of the desperate Israeli attempts to plunder the forefathers’ heritage and pass off a fake Israeli narrative full of holes. Likewise, the ministry praised the decision of the previous [Palestinian] government to adopt the northern orange-tufted sunbird as a national bird and the iris haynei as a national flower of our freedom-deprived land, due to the symbolism and importance of the matter for the struggle against the Israelization.”
> 
> All media
> 
> 
> 
> REGISTRANT CONTACT
> Name:
> Ilan Mazuz
> 
> Organization:
> PMW
> 
> Street:
> 61 Malchei Israel ST.
> 
> City:
> Netivot
> 
> Postal Code:
> 87733
> 
> Country:
> IL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try dealing with what the Arabs keep doing, which is to deny any Jewish History on the Land of Israel.
> 
> The sources for each article are there.  They are from Hamas, Fatah, the PA, Abbas, etc.
> 
> Deal with what they have posted on facebook, on their official sites, etc.
Click to expand...

israel has been de-facto on the Land of Palestine what, 70 years now?


----------



## Sixties Fan

fanger said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> PA Ministry of Information: Jews attempt to "plunder the forefathers' heritage and pass off a fake Israeli narrative full of holes"
> 
> Source: Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Oct. 6, 2016
> 
> _Headline:_ “Ministry of Information: The Palestinian heritage is stronger than the Judaization”
> “The [PA] Ministry of Information considered Palestinian Heritage Day – Oct. 7 – to be a rebellion against the Judaization despite the occupation’s terror that targets our heritage and [the occupation’s] falsification of it… The ministry said that the war on the national clothing, traditional foods, trees, fruits, birds, rocks, and land constitute a continuation of the desperate Israeli attempts to plunder the forefathers’ heritage and pass off a fake Israeli narrative full of holes. Likewise, the ministry praised the decision of the previous [Palestinian] government to adopt the northern orange-tufted sunbird as a national bird and the iris haynei as a national flower of our freedom-deprived land, due to the symbolism and importance of the matter for the struggle against the Israelization.”
> 
> All media
> 
> 
> 
> REGISTRANT CONTACT
> Name:
> Ilan Mazuz
> 
> Organization:
> PMW
> 
> Street:
> 61 Malchei Israel ST.
> 
> City:
> Netivot
> 
> Postal Code:
> 87733
> 
> Country:
> IL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try dealing with what the Arabs keep doing, which is to deny any Jewish History on the Land of Israel.
> 
> The sources for each article are there.  They are from Hamas, Fatah, the PA, Abbas, etc.
> 
> Deal with what they have posted on facebook, on their official sites, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> israel has been de-facto on the Land of Palestine what, 70 years now?
Click to expand...

The League of Nations and the United Nations are the only recognizers of the recreation of Israel as having the right to be a sovereign State, who matter. Especially the UN.

Write them a letter and cry.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ida’is explained that in the shadow of the Arab and Islamic silence and international conspiracy, the Zionist occupation authorities are continuing their plans to erode occupied Jerusalem and take all of the Islamic characteristics from it while using all of the arbitrary means to Judaize the city and expel the original [Arab] Jerusalem residents from it: taking control of the lands and establishing settlements on them, the continuation of the excavations under our blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque… and the many attempts to steal our heritage and culture – and this is not the first time: a Jewish ‘archaeologist’ attempted to steal a stone from the ancient Al-Aqsa Mosque.”

(full article online)

PA Minister of Religious Affairs claims Israel desecrates Al-Aqsa, "Judaizes" Jerusalem, and "attempts to steal our heritage and culture" - All media


----------



## Sixties Fan

PLO official: The Western Wall (i.e., Judaism's holiest site) “is an inseparable part of the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque and a pure right of the Muslims” that will not be changed by Israel’s “illusions and acts of forgery”  

Source: Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Oct. 4, 2017

Headline: “Qurei: The violations and dangers surrounding the Al-Aqsa Mosque are dangerous and systematic”

       “PLO Executive Committee member and Head of the Department for Jerusalem Affairs Ahmed Qurei ‘Abu Alaa’… emphasized in a press release yesterday, Tuesday [Oct. 3, 2017], that the Al-Buraq Wall (i.e., the Western Wall of the Temple Mount) is an inseparable part of the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque and a pure right of the Muslims, and the illusions and acts of forgery that the occupation government is carrying out will not change the truth at all, and will not create facts on the ground.”

_The Al-Buraq Wall - Islam's Prophet Muhammad is said to have rode during his Night Journey from Mecca to "al aqsa mosque", i.e., "the farthest mosque" (Quran, Sura 17), and there tied his miraculous flying steed named Al-Buraq to a "stone" or a "rock." (Jami` at-Tirmidhi, Book 47, Hadith 3424). In the 1920's, Arab Mufti Haj Amin Al-Husseini decided to identify the Western Wall of the Temple in Jerusalem as that "rock" or "stone," and since then Muslims refer to the Western Wall as the "Al-Buraq Wall."

Jerusalem's Temple/Jewish history denied | PMW_


----------



## Sixties Fan

Source: Official Palestinian Authority TV, Dec. 19, 2017
_Official PA TV program _Palestine This Morning_, hosting Imam of the Silwad Mosque Sheikh Taleb Al-Silwadi_

*Official PA TV host:* “Honorable Sheikh, at this point especially, and in our talk about the second among mosques, meaning the Al-Aqsa Mosque, no Temple or synagogue was built before it, or any of those mistaken statements.”
*Imam of the Silwad Mosque Sheikh Taleb Al-Silwadi: *“Correct, the criminal Jews – in other words, they talk about the alleged Temple of Solomon. They invented a temple, planned, and so forth with the goal of destroying the Al-Aqsa Mosque… and the Al-Aqsa Mosque will never be destroyed, Allah willing, and it will remain exalted and Jerusalem will, Allah willing, be a capital and it will forever remain the capital of the State of Palestine, Allah willing.”

(full article online)

Jerusalem's Temple/Jewish history denied | PMW


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## Sixties Fan

[ Aiding the destruction of Jewish History ]

As the blogger Elder of Ziyon has noted, this “Egyptian philosopher” is a man named Abdelwahab Elmessiri, whose works include the Encyclopedia of Jews, Judaism and Zionism, which, among other things, dismisses the Jewish people’s connection to Israel as irrelevant.

Recent weeks have evidenced similarly poor reporting from the Post.

As CAMERA noted in The Algemeiner, The Washington Post failed to detail Abbas’ December 13, 2017 claim — made before reporters and others attending the Organization of Islamic Cooperation in Istanbul — that Jews “are really excellent in faking and counterfeiting history.

(full article online)

Washington Post Provides Cover for Palestinian Antisemitism


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## Sixties Fan

Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida - Dec. 19, 2017










_Excerpt of an op-ed by Bakr Abu Bakr, Fatah Revolutionary Council member and regular columnist for the official PA daily_

Headline: “Palestine, what is under the ground and what is above it belongs to you”

       “There is no doubt about the Arabness of Palestine for the last 10,000 years, as [PA] President Mahmoud Abbas noted in his latest speech in Istanbul. Regarding the Children of Israel, the Arab tribe that became extinct, and its presence here, indeed it is Arab movement (i.e., apparently meaning an Arab nomadic tribe), and the present residents of our land who are affiliated with the Jewish religion have no connection to them. In other words, they (the residents of the [Zionist] entity) [parentheses in source] are affiliated with several nations, and there is no hereditary – DNA – or national connection between them and the Children of Israel that became extinct. On the other hand, we – the Jebusites, Canaanites (members of the Kinana tribe) [parentheses in source], and Arab Palestinians (the Philistines) [parentheses in source], members of the Tayy tribe, and other tribes - were in Palestine even before the Common Era and established civilization and Jerusalem…

(full article online)

Op-ed in PA daily invents ancient Arab history in Palestine, denies any Jewish ties to the land of Israel: “If they are here, this is for a Western colonialist goal” - All Media


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## Sixties Fan

Questioning Mahmoud Abbas’ Historical Revisionism


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## Sixties Fan

Kingston Whig-Standard Op-Ed Tantamount to Historical Revisionism | Honest Reporting Canada


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## Sixties Fan

*Fatah Revolutionary Council member Osama Al-Qawasmi:* “Yes certainly, [that is] the heart of the conflict, and I want to honestly tell you, the Palestinian people, and all those who are listening to us – why are they insisting on Jerusalem [as] the capital of the occupation, [which is] a lie and falsehood? And why is [US President Donald] Trump at this time aiding this false Israeli narrative, which they fabricated from their hearts, when it has no foundation, no [support in] religion, nor in history, and not even in international law. They want to establish the Israeli narrative and the refutation of the Palestinian narrative about this land being ours, because they have promoted a lie for 100 years that this is the Promised Land, that history is with them, and that [Jerusalem] was their capital – and this is not correct at all, not in history, not in religion, and not in international law. And regarding [Israel], this ecstasy that they feel over Trump’s aid about Jerusalem being theirs, it is an attempt to spread that this Israeli narrative is the correct one and that the Palestinian narrative is false. They are also simultaneously demanding that we [recognize] the Jewishness of this state in order to refute the Palestinian narrative about this land being Arab, Canaanite, Jebusite, and Palestinian."
They want to say that it is Jewish, [and this is] a lie and falsehood.”

(full article online)

Fatah Rev. Council member: Israeli narrative that Jerusalem was a Jewish capital is “false” and a “lie,” which Pres. Trump is "aiding"  - All media


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## Sixties Fan

Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida - Dec. 19, 2017













_Excerpt of an op-ed by Bakr Abu Bakr, Fatah Revolutionary Council member and regular columnist for the official PA daily_

Headline: “Palestine, what is under the ground and what is above it belongs to you”

       “There is no doubt about the Arabness of Palestine for the last 10,000 years, as [PA] President Mahmoud Abbas noted in his latest speech in Istanbul. Regarding the Children of Israel, the Arab tribe that became extinct, and its presence here, indeed it is Arab movement (i.e., apparently meaning an Arab nomadic tribe), and the present residents of our land who are affiliated with the Jewish religion have no connection to them. In other words, they (the residents of the [Zionist] entity) [parentheses in source] are affiliated with several nations, and there is no hereditary – DNA – or national connection between them and the Children of Israel that became extinct. On the other hand, we – the Jebusites, Canaanites (members of the Kinana tribe) [parentheses in source], and Arab Palestinians (the Philistines) [parentheses in source], members of the Tayy tribe, and other tribes - were in Palestine even before the Common Era and established civilization and Jerusalem…

(full article online)

Op-ed in PA daily invents ancient Arab history in Palestine, denies any Jewish ties to the land of Israel: “If they are here, this is for a Western colonialist goal” - Palestinian history fabricated | PMW


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

When speaking in English, the Arab critics of Trump's move are careful to talk about the importance of Jerusalem to all three major monotheistic religions, and how Muslims and Jews lived in harmony in Palestine for centuries before Zionism, and other soothing liberal-sounding phrases.

But listen to them in Arabic and the idea that Jews have any connection or right to live in Jerusalem is simply not acceptable. It is an Islamic and Christian, and always Arab, city. 

(full article online)

Speaking in Arabic, Arabs agree there is no place for Jews in Jerusalem ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

Palestine isn’t a Hebrew or Arabic word. The Greeks used it to describe the area. And when the Romans and their Arab mercenaries repressed the indigenous Jewish population, they renamed it all Palestine.

Palestine, after the Philistines: but why did the Greeks and Romans name the area after the Philistines?

The Philistines were one of the Greek origin sea peoples who had originally invaded and colonized the area. The Jewish resistance to Philistine colonialism is chronicled in the histories of Samson, King Saul and King David. It was natural for the Greek and Roman colonies that the Jews of the Second Temple era clashed with to use “Palestine”, the name associated with earlier colonies, to refer to their new colonies.

In Germany, Abbas declared that, “the nation of Palestine, throughout its long history, has been a beacon of generosity, and our people are an extension of the 3,500-year-old Canaanite civilization.” The Palestinian Authority that the unelected dictator runs was created in 1993. There was never any such independent country before that. And inquiring minds would love to know what an Islamic terrorist group and the Arab clans it oversees have in common with the Canaanite civilization. Fire, the wheel?

But then, Abbas also insisted that, "Mohammed the Prophet was a Palestinian”. According to Islamic tradition, Mohammed was an Adnanite Arab from Arabia. They claim descent from Ishmael and Abraham. That means they aren’t Canaanites. And a number of the Arab clans who make up the “Palestinians” do have their origins in Arabia. For a brief, shining moment, Abbas was telling the truth.

Previously, Abbas had also claimed that Jesus was a Palestinian. If you’re keeping track, that means the Palestinians are Canaanites, Arabs and Jews. That certainly covers a lot of historical bases.

But we’re just getting started.

(full article online)

Sultan Knish: The Big Palestine Lie


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## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> Palestine isn’t a Hebrew or Arabic word. The Greeks used it to describe the area. And when the Romans and their Arab mercenaries repressed the indigenous Jewish population, they renamed it all Palestine.
> 
> Palestine, after the Philistines: but why did the Greeks and Romans name the area after the Philistines?
> 
> The Philistines were one of the Greek origin sea peoples who had originally invaded and colonized the area. The Jewish resistance to Philistine colonialism is chronicled in the histories of Samson, King Saul and King David. It was natural for the Greek and Roman colonies that the Jews of the Second Temple era clashed with to use “Palestine”, the name associated with earlier colonies, to refer to their new colonies.
> 
> In Germany, Abbas declared that, “the nation of Palestine, throughout its long history, has been a beacon of generosity, and our people are an extension of the 3,500-year-old Canaanite civilization.” The Palestinian Authority that the unelected dictator runs was created in 1993. There was never any such independent country before that. And inquiring minds would love to know what an Islamic terrorist group and the Arab clans it oversees have in common with the Canaanite civilization. Fire, the wheel?
> 
> But then, Abbas also insisted that, "Mohammed the Prophet was a Palestinian”. According to Islamic tradition, Mohammed was an Adnanite Arab from Arabia. They claim descent from Ishmael and Abraham. That means they aren’t Canaanites. And a number of the Arab clans who make up the “Palestinians” do have their origins in Arabia. For a brief, shining moment, Abbas was telling the truth.
> 
> Previously, Abbas had also claimed that Jesus was a Palestinian. If you’re keeping track, that means the Palestinians are Canaanites, Arabs and Jews. That certainly covers a lot of historical bases.
> 
> But we’re just getting started.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Sultan Knish: The Big Palestine Lie




Don't forget to put the Phoenicians and Jebusites in there.


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## Sixties Fan

Official Palestinian Authority TV - Nov. 14, 2017













_Official PA TV program _Palestine This Morning_, on PA Ambassador to UNESCO (UN Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization) Mounir Anastas being appointed Rapporteur of the UNESCO Cultural Committee, hosting Secretary-General of the PLO Palestinian National Council for Education, Culture, and Science Murad Al-Sudani_

*Secretary-General of the PLO Palestinian National Council for Education, Culture, and Science Murad Al-Sudani:* "There is no time, hour, minute, day, month, or week that it [Israel] does not penetrate the innards of the city [Jerusalem] in order to falsify its consciousness and memory, and in order to excavate under the Al-Aqsa Mosque and above it with the goal of stealing.
A case that drew my attention was when the occupation's [Israeli] Minister [of Tourism Yariv Levin] and the occupation's [Israeli] Prime Minister [Benjamin] Netanyahu turned to one of the tourists in the Old City of Jerusalem two days ago (sic., seven days ago) and explained about the City of David and all of those details, and the gravest thing is that [Netanyahu] held za'atar (i.e., a Middle East herb) and pronounced za'atar in his distorted and twisted accent, in order to steal the za'atar [and present it] as one of the elements of Israeli culture (see note below –Ed.…

(full article online)

PLO education official: Israel has falsified Jerusalem's "consciousness and memory," excavates under the Al-Aqsa Mosque in order to steal it, and appropriates Palestinian culture  - Jerusalem's Temple/Jewish history denied | PMW


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## Sixties Fan

One such way is by consistently using a visual map of “Palestine” that includes all of Israel.






At a ceremony, the PA National Security Forces presented District Governor of Ramallah and El-Bireh Laila Ghannam with an honorary plaque featuring the PA map of “Palestine” that presents all of Israel as “Palestine” together with the PA areas, with a Palestinian flag on it and a _keffiyeh_ (Arab headdress) pattern in the background.

Posted text: “During the tribute held by the gender unit of the [PA] National Security [Forces] for District Governor [of Ramallah and El-Bireh] Dr. Laila Ghannam, as a sign of appreciation for her giving and excellence.”
[Facebook page of District Governor of Ramallah and El-Bireh Laila Ghannam, Jan. 17, 2018

(full article online)

Fatah official presents all of Israel as “Palestine”  - PMW Bulletins


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## Sixties Fan

Middle East history is not Abbas’ only victim. In his 1983 Ph.D. dissertation-turned-book, _The Other Side: The Secret Relations Between Nazism and the Leadership of the Zionist Movement_, Abbas asserted that David Ben-Gurion and other Zionist leaders “collaborated with Hitler” and wanted the Nazis to kill Jews, because “having more victims meant greater rights and stronger privilege to join the negotiating table for dividing the spoils of war once it was over.”

The “real” number of Jews murdered by the Nazis was “much lower” than 6 million and might well have been “below 1 million,” Abbas wrote. “Many scholars have debated the figure of 6 million and reached stunning conclusions — fixing the number of Jewish victims at only a few hundred thousand.” 

Asked about his Holocaust writings in a January 2013 interview with a Lebanese television station, Abbas replied: “I challenge anyone to deny the relationship between Zionism and Nazism before World War II.”

He added that he has “70 more books that I still haven’t published” that he says would prove his claims.

Nor is Abbas above misrepresenting the words of an American president. When challenged in 2014 over his refusal to recognize Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state, Abbas told_The New York Times _that his position was supported by none other than Harry S. Truman. How so? Abbas pulled out a reproduction of President Truman’s statement, in 1948, recognizing the newborn State of Israel. The Palestinian leader pointed triumphantly to the fact that the words “Jewish state” were crossed out and replaced by “State of Israel.” 

The real reason for that name-change had nothing to do with Truman’s opinion as to whether Israel should be a Jewish state. Israel’s representatives in Washington drafted their request for U.S. recognition before the state was proclaimed and its name was known. They learned the new country’s name — via shortwave radio — just moments before handing their request to the president. They corrected it by hand to save time.

(full article online)

Mahmoud Abbas, World’s Worst Historian - Jewish Exponent


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## Sixties Fan

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2018/01/palestinian-authority-jerusalem.html


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## Sixties Fan

(full article online)

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2018/01/the-crime-of-stealing-anothers-culture.html


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## Sixties Fan

In his 2011 book, Jerusalem: The Biography, historian Simon Sebag Montefiore captures the theological mystery within which Jerusalem remains suspended, describing it as “the house of one God, the capital of two peoples, the temple of three religions, and she is the only city to exist twice — in heaven and on earth.”

But as a believing Muslim observing Islam, I am compelled by the Quran to support Israel’s sole claim to the Holy Land; the Quran says it is so.

The 80,000-word document 1.6 billion Muslims accept as the revealed word of God, the Quran, is categorical about the destiny of Israel and the people who can claim its ownership.

The Quran states: “Moses said to his people: O my people! Remember the bounty of God upon you when He bestowed prophets upon you, and made you kings and gave you that which had not been given to anyone before you amongst the nations. O my people! Enter the Holy Land which God has written for you, and do not turn tail, otherwise you will be losers.”

Nowhere does the Quran make mention of the Muslims’ claim to the Holy Land. Instead, God reveals in the Quran that The Holy Land is designated for the followers of Moses. Because the Promised Land is theirs according to the Quran, only the followers of Moses may determine where their capital must lie.

(full article online)

Jerusalem belongs to the Jews: An Islamic truth


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## Sixties Fan

PA TV: There is "no documentation" the Western Wall was ever a "place of worship" for Jews before the Balfour Declaration was issued in 1917
l 
Abbas' advisor: "[The Jews have] no connection to this land, not religiously or historically"
 l
PA minister: "Israel's claims regarding the finding of Jewish antiquities are a clear falsification of the city [of Jerusalem's] history"

PLO official: Jewish historical ties to the land are "a Zionist invention;" 
Jews are in "Palestine" only because "Europe wanted to get rid of them"


(full article online)

PA: Jews have no history in "Palestine" - PMW Bulletins


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## Sixties Fan

Source: Official Palestinian Authority TV, Dec. 27, 2017

_Official PA TV program _Palestine This Morning_, on Jerusalem’s “Arab and Islamic identity” being “changed,” hosting archaeologist and member of Fatah’s Jerusalem branch Abir Zayyad_

*Archaeologist and member of Fatah’s Jerusalem branch Abir Zayyad:* “To this day, the antiquities prove that there was no presence of any sort of [King] Solomon and [King] David or a Jewish presence 3,000 years ago in Jerusalem and all of Palestine (sic., such evidence abounds).”

Jerusalem's Temple/Jewish history denied | PMW


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## Sixties Fan

Latest Palestinian Appropriation of Jewish Culture


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## Sixties Fan

Association of the alleged Temple organizations’ to its supporters to carry out group invasions this Sunday [July 26, 2015], the anniversary of the so-called ‘destruction of the Temple’ (i.e., Tisha B’Av ). The council regarded this call as a dangerous escalation, and an official declaration of the Al-Aqsa Mosque’s inauguration as a Jewish synagogue, as well as a pilgrimage site for Jews to hold their Talmudic ceremonies (i.e., Jewish prayers) at the expense of its Islamic character, and clarified that the continued offensive against the Al-Aqsa Mosque warns of a religious war. 

In addition, it stressed that the Israeli plan to Judaize Jerusalem and the Al-Aqsa [Mosque] or to lay a hand on them is a delusion , as the only ones entitled to the mosque, its courtyards, corridors, and every part of it, are the Muslims. Jerusalem will retain its Islamic face and Arab identity, and the occupation will not rob it of its identity, no matter how far it goes with its crimes and falsification of facts.

(full article online)

Islamic council: Israel “will not rob it [Jerusalem] of its identity, no matter how far it goes with its crimes and falsification of facts” - All media


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## Sixties Fan

A European Union report leaked to The Guardian newspaper expressed ire over Israeli tourism in and around Jerusalem’s Old City, calling the ongoing development of Jewish infrastructure a form of “touristic settlement.”

(full article online)

EU Report Calls Jewish Development of Jerusalem Historical Sites ‘Touristic Settlement’


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## Sixties Fan

Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida - Oct. 25, 2016


















_Headline: _“Arrogance – Netanyahu intends to participate in excavations under the Al-Aqsa Mosque”

     “The occupation’s [Israel’s] Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu promised in press statements to personally participate in the removal of soil from under the Al-Aqsa Mosque this week (sic., Netanyahu’s actual statement appears in a note below), and called on the Jewish population to join him…

PLO Executive Committee member [and Secretary-General of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine] Ahmed Majdalani emphasized that Netanyahu’s statements are full of arrogance and haughtiness. Majdalani said in statements to [the official PA radio station] The Voice of Palestine that these statements are meant to thwart the latest UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) resolutions regarding the Jerusalem [Noble] Sanctuary (i.e., the Temple Mount) and [the] Old [City of] Jerusalem through lies and claims about the Jews' alleged connection to it.”

(full article online)

PA daily: "Netanyahu intends to participate in excavations under the Al-Aqsa Mosque" in attempt to prove "Jews' alleged connection to it" - Jerusalem's Temple/Jewish history denied | PMW


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## Sixties Fan

Dore Gold Cambridge Jerusalem Speech and QnA


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## Sixties Fan

Trump's decision on Jerusalem 
"aligned with the false Zionist narrative...
Israeli archaeologists have searched for the last 70 years 
and have not found a single archaeological remnant 
related to the...Temple or... to Jews in Palestine in general"
[Columnist in official PA daily]

PA TV: There is "no documentation" the Western Wall was ever a "place of worship" for Jews before the Balfour Declaration was issued in 1917
l 
Abbas' advisor: "[The Jews have] no connection to this land, not religiously or historically"
 l
PA minister: "Israel's claims regarding the finding of Jewish antiquities are a clear falsification of the city [of Jerusalem's] history"

PLO official: Jewish historical ties to the land are "a Zionist invention;" 
Jews are in "Palestine" only because "Europe wanted to get rid of them"

(full article online)

PA: Jews have no history in "Palestine" - PMW Bulletins


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## Sixties Fan

The author of the review stresses how scientific the book is, confusing footnotes with scholarship. But the point of the book is obviously not for knowledge but for propaganda - just as people will point to the work of Shlomo Sand or Ilan Pappe as being scholarly, when in fact they are just frameworks to put a scholarly coat of paint on a rusted-through toolshed of lies.

But I couldn't help wondering: since the Arab world is so interested in Biblical criticism, when are they going to put the Koran through the same critical analysis?

(full article online)

ttp://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2018/02/arabs-suddenly-interested-in-critical.html


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## Sixties Fan

PA radio host: Israel is “cancerous entity… everyone knows [the Jews] have no right to this land” - Video


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## Sixties Fan

Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida - Oct. 13, 2015













*Headline:* “Andalusia”

Regular poetry column of Tawfiq Amarneh in the official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_

“What do you say we demand Andalusia (i.e., an autonomous community in southern Spain) like the Jews!
And we will see the responses of the worn-out world!
Our buildings, our antiquities, and our palaces are the clearest testimony that will convince anyone who asks for witnesses!
The Jews searched for a lost Temple for years!
They excavated, burrowed, and destroyed all of the strong bridges!
They didn’t find a Temple, or a similar structure, and the world knows and is silent about all of the atrocities!”

Song in PA daily: The Jews “searched for a lost Temple for years”, but “didn’t find a Temple” - Jerusalem's Temple/Jewish history denied | PMW


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## Sixties Fan

PA daily: "Settlers carried out tours of provocation at the mosque, while [receiving] explanations about the myth of the 'alleged Temple'" 

Source: Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Sept. 5, 2016

_Headline: _“At the same time as calls of the ‘Temple organizations’: Settlers renew their invasions of the Al-Aqsa Mosque”

     “Settlers yesterday [Sept. 4, 2016] renewed their invasions of the Al-Aqsa Mosque [plaza] through the Mughrabi Gate, under increased guard and protection by special occupation forces. The settlers carried out tours of provocation at the mosque, while [receiving] explanations about the myth of the ‘alleged Temple’ [that was] in its place, while the worshippers came out against these invasions and tours with calls of protest: ‘Allahu Akbar.’”

(full article online)

Jerusalem's Temple/Jewish history denied | PMW


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## Sixties Fan

Source: Official Palestinian Authority TV, Dec. 30, 2017

The PA TV video shows a woman who represents "ancient Palestinians" (or possibly Muslims) going through the history of the land - replacing the Jewish people's actual history. The woman is introduced in a peaceful scene feeding birds in a period predating the Roman conquest of Judea and destruction of the Temple in 70 CE. Suddenly the scene is disturbed, the birds scatter and the woman runs away from various foreign invaders: first an ancient Roman soldier, then a Crusader, then a British soldier, and finally a Jew (wearing a skullcap), who throws a lit cigarette at her. 
In the final scene, the woman stops fleeing when a man on a horse - the "new" Muslim conqueror Saladin who defeated the Crusaders - extends his hand and helps her up the mountain. He represents the coming savior who will "liberate Palestine" from Jewish-Israeli rule. In the end, the woman stands on the top of the mountain, fleeing no one anymore, symbolizing that Israel is gone like the other foreign rulers. 
*
*
_Note: The video originally aired March 2, 2012. It was rebroadcast on both PA TV and PA TV Live at least 18 times in 2012, 54 times in 2013, 44 times in 2014, 42 times in 2015, 24 times in 2016, and 22 times in 2017, most recently on Dec. 30, 2017. It was broadcast on Fatah-run Awdah TV twice on Jan. 8, 2016, and 6 times in 2017, most recently on Aug. 20, 2017._

Abbas distorts history: Israel is Europe's "colonialist project that is not connected to Judaism, but made use of the Jews so they would serve as pawns" - Denying Israel's right to exist | PMW


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## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority chairman Mahmoud Abbas told the United Nations Security Council that PA residents are the direct descendants of the Canaanites, claiming that ‘Palestine’ made significant contributions to humanity prior to the 1917 Balfour Declaration.

During his address at the UN Security Councilin which he called on the international community to hold a Middle East peace conference, with the goal of launching multilateral negotiations, Abbas claimed that the Arab residents of Judea, Samaria, and Gaza were in fact descended from the ancient Canaanites.

(full article online)

Abbas to UN: 'We are the Canaanites'


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## Sixties Fan

Source: Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Sept. 22, 2014

     ‎“The settlers renewed their invasions of ‎the Al-Aqsa Mosque through the ‎Mughrabi Gate yesterday [Sept. 21, 2014] ‎in occupied Jerusalem… Witnesses said ‎that the invasions were carried out in ‎small, consecutive groups, each led by ‎one of the extremist leaders or a rabbi, ‎who present Talmudic stories about the ‎myth and tale of the alleged Temple.”‎

_Note: The PA considers any presence of ‎Jews on the Temple Mount an “invasion.” ‎However, all visitors are subject to rigorous ‎checks by Israeli security personnel ‎before being granted access to the Temple ‎Mount.‎

Jerusalem's Temple/Jewish history denied | PMW_


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## Sixties Fan

(full article online)

"Palestine is My Valentine," PA Security Forces spokesman erases all of Israel - PMW Bulletins


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## Sixties Fan

The Mufti of Jerusalem and Palestine, ‎Sheikh Muhammad Hussein, warned of ‎the occupation’s intensifying Judaization ‎projects in Jerusalem. He continued: ‘The ‎oppressive occupation is trying to Judaize ‎the people and the stones, and to ‎obliterate the city’s Islamic and Arab ‎landmarks. But Jerusalem will remain the ‎heart and eternal capital of Palestine.’ ‎

(full article online)

Sheikh: "The stones of Jerusalem say to it [Israel], 'You are a foreigner'" - Jerusalem's Temple/Jewish history denied | PMW


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## Sixties Fan

Extended quotes from the book are written in two separate reviews published since the US announcement of moving the embassy.

The very beginning exposes the lies that underlie the book:

 I am not a normal city like all the cities in this world: I have been a holy city since my birth.....
I was born when my family built me: the Jebusite Arabs who had migrated from the Arabian Peninsula with the Canaanites in the fifth millennium BC. ...There is no evidence that pre-Israelite Jerusalem was a holy city when it was founded, although there is some  Biblical evidence that it had achieved that status in Abraham's time.

There is no evidence that the Jebusites (or any of the Canaanites) are Arabs who migrated from the Arabian Peninsula.

The book goes on to claim that the Israelites were Bedouin nomads for hundreds of years:

(full article online)

Arabs making up new lying "histories" of Jerusalem  ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida - June 7, 2014

















      ‎“The Supreme Muslim Council organized ‎a [protest] vigil and sit-down strike on the ‎‎47th anniversary of the _Naksa _(i.e., ‘the ‎setback,’ Palestinian term for Israel's ‎victory in the Six Day War) and in support ‎of the Al-Aqsa Mosque on the steps of the ‎Damascus Gate, one of the most famous ‎gates of the Old City, as part of the events ‎of the Global March to Jerusalem, and ‎concluded with a rally with speeches and ‎a march to the Al-Aqsa Mosque…‎

The Mufti of Jerusalem and Palestine, ‎Sheikh Muhammad Hussein, warned of ‎the occupation’s intensifying Judaization ‎projects in Jerusalem. He continued: ‘The ‎oppressive occupation is trying to Judaize ‎the people and the stones, and to ‎obliterate the city’s Islamic and Arab ‎landmarks. But Jerusalem will remain the ‎heart and eternal capital of Palestine.’ ‎

Fatah Revolutionary Council member ‎Hatem Abd Al-Qader said: ‘On this ‎anniversary and this [protest] vigil, we ‎recite the Al-Fatiha Sura (opening Sura of ‎the Quran) over the souls of the Martyrs ‎‎(_Shahids_), salute the prisoners, and ‎emphasize that the occupation does not ‎scare us and will not alter our will despite ‎all its actions.’ He continued: ‘Jerusalem ‎will remain Islamic, Arab, Palestinian, and ‎the occupation is ephemeral, as were all ‎those who were foreign to it [Jerusalem]. ‎We are warning the occupation lest it ‎continue its aggression against Jerusalem ‎and [the] Al-Aqsa [Mosque], for [we] will ‎not stand for this, and we will hold the ‎occupation fully [responsible] for its ‎consequences.’ ‎

Deputy Head of the Islamic Movement in ‎the 1948 territories (i.e., Israel) Sheikh ‎Kamal Khatib: ‘… 47 years have passed ‎since the occupation of Jerusalem; ‎despite this, the people of Jerusalem say ‎to the occupation: “You are a foreigner;” ‎the stones of Jerusalem say to it: “You are ‎a foreigner; and the land and skies of ‎Jerusalem say: “The occupation is foreign, ‎and it will leave, just as all the previous ‎occupations left.”’”‎ 

Sheikh: "The stones of Jerusalem say to it [Israel], 'You are a foreigner'" - Jerusalem's Temple/Jewish history denied | PMW


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## Sixties Fan

Source: Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Aug. 9, 2017
Headline: "The [PA] government: The king of Jordan’s visit to Palestine is a message to Tel Aviv"

"During its weekly meeting, which was held yesterday [Aug. 8, 2017] led by [PA] Prime Minister Rami Hamdallah, the [PA] government emphasized the importance of King Abdullah II bin Al-Hussein of Jordan’s visit and his meeting with [PA] President Mahmoud Abbas two days ago in Ramallah…
*The government emphasized that Israel arose on the ruins of the Palestinian people, and from the first day rejected UN Resolution 181 (sic., the UN partition plan of 1947 was accepted by the Jewish Agency and rejected by Arab leaders and governments) and UN Resolution 194, which deals with the refugees’ right of return…*
The government expressed its opposition to the fact that *the American Senate Committee [on Foreign Relations] approved a bill (i.e., the Taylor Force Act), which determines that the US will stop the annual aid that it transfers to the PA *(sic., it will stop aid if the PA continues to pay terrorists and families of deceased terrorists –Ed.). It emphasized that the US understands that the occupation… is fully responsible for the PA’s financial responsibility in relation to the occupation’s actions and their results (i.e., Israel is the reason the PA has to pay salaries to terrorist prisoners and dead terrorists' families -Ed.)."

Palestinian history fabricated | PMW


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## Sixties Fan

Abu Mazen is at it again, claiming that Palestinians are descended from the Canaanite tribe of the Jebusites. These claims echo those made by Yasser Arafat, Faisal Husseini and others before them.

A 1978 Palestinian encyclopedia asserted: “The Palestinians [are] the descendants of the Jebusites, who are of Arab origin.” The book also described Jerusalem as “an Arab city because its first builders were the Canaanite Jebusites, whose descendants are the Palestinians.”

This is interesting by itself, because the very term Arab, used as early as 800 BCE in Assyrian texts, applied only to inhabitants of the deserts of Arabia — not hill country such as the West Bank.

(full article online)

Mahmoud Abbas and the False Palestinian Link to the Jebusites


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## Sixties Fan

Source: Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Oct. 2, 2016

_Headline: _“Marking the anniversary of the emigration of the Prophet at the Ibrahimi Mosque”
     “The [PA] Ministry of Religious Affairs yesterday [Oct. 1, 2016] 

marked the anniversary of the emigration of the Prophet (i.e., the Muslim New Year) at the Ibrahimi Mosque (i.e., the Cave of the Patriarchs) in the Old City of Hebron, in the presence of several official and civilian dignitaries, heads of institutions, and a crowd of civilians.
[PA] Minister of Religious Affairs Yusuf Ida’is emphasized that the Ibrahimi Mosque will remain an Islamic mosque, as no non-Muslim has any connection to it, and likewise the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque, which is defiled on a daily basis by the occupation and its settlers in front of the world, and particularly in front of the Arab nation and the Muslim nation.”

Jerusalem's Temple/Jewish history denied | PMW


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## Sixties Fan

A report of the Ministry of Strategic Affairs is being presented Sunday by Minister Gilad Erdan to the cabinet, revealing a disturbing radicalization of incitement in the Palestinian Authority’s schools and social networks. The worrisome trend is reflected in PA textbooks that include texts like “I will remove the robber from my country, destroy the remnants of the foreigners,” and “We love death.”

(full article online)

Strategic Affairs Ministry: Abbas Entrenching Narrative Denying Israel’s Right to Exist


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Indigeneity, of course, is not about "the silly game of 'who was here first?'"

Indigeneity refers to the roots of a culture and the people who comprise that culture in all of its branches... even including New York Jews who live in California.

The Jewish people are the indigenous people to the Land of Israel because that is the place where our ancestors forged the beginnings of a multivariant culture and cultivated the Hebrew language and the Jewish religion and those other aspects that bring us together as one.
From a practical standpoint, however, this scholar asked an important question:

 What is the desired end-result of these debates?

The desired result cannot be to convince Arabs that they should respect Israel as the indigenous homeland of the Jewish people.
I agree, that this is simply not going to happen... history or no history, because the "Palestinian narrative" will not permit.

(full article online)

Sarah Tuttle-Singer and the "Palestinian Narrative"  (Michael Lumish) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

*What Really Happened at Deir Yassin? A Massacre That Never Was*

Here’s what we know about the events that transpired at Deir Yassin on April 9, 1948 and the consequences of the battle from readily available and credible evidence:


_The Arab villagers of Deir Yassin weren’t peaceful, so subduing the village became a key military objective during the first phase of the 1948 Arab-Israeli war._
After the Jews accepted and the Arabs rejected the UN 1947 proposal to divide the British mandate, Arab militias laid siege to Jerusalem and 150,000 Jewish inhabitants of the city were “under constant military pressure” (the 2,500 Jewish residents of the Old City were also at risk of starving to death on account of the Arab blockade).

Jewish aid convoys tried to reach the city to assist its beleaguered residents, but Arab militias cut off the highway from Tel Aviv—the city’s only supply route—and controlled a number of vantage points overlooking it. Deir Yassin, situated on a hill less than a mile from Jerusalem’s suburbs, had a commanding view of the vicinity. It was one of a group of Arab villages that the Haganah determined had to be occupied as part of the military operation to open the road to Jerusalem.

(full article online)

Silencing History: U.S. University Publishers Shun Book “Ending the Deir Yassin Myth”


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## Sixties Fan

Even after Saladin captured Jerusalem back from the Crusaders in 1187, and even though the Temple Mount was re-consecrated as a Muslim sanctuary, Saladin still allowed Jews access not only to Jerusalem, but also to worship on the Temple Mount. Later, though, Saladin forbade Jews from praying there. From the late thirteenth to the mid-nineteenth century, the Temple Mount was basically off-limits to Jews, though occasionally they were allowed access.

The chief rabbi of Jerusalem, David ben Shlomo Ibn Zimra (Radbaz, 1479-1573) wrote that the city's Jews regularly went to the Temple Mount in order to view the entire temple ruins and pray there and that "we have not heard or seen anyone object to this."

After the Ottoman conquest of Jerusalem in 1516, Sultan Suleiman I encouraged European Jews, especially those expelled from Spain and Portugal a generation earlier, to resettle in Jerusalem. He instructed his court architect to prepare a special place for Jewish prayer in an alley at the bottom of the Western retaining wall of the Temple Mount in compensation for prohibiting all non-Muslims from entering any part of the Temple Mount. He issued a royal decree guaranteeing Jews the right to pray at this Western Wall for all time.

(full article online)

Historically, Jews Prayed on the Temple Mount When Muslims Controlled it -- So Why Not Now? (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

Official Palestinian Authority TV - Aug. 2, 2004














*Jarir Al-Qidwa, advisor on educational affairs to Arafat, now Chairman PA Public Library*
_*Dr. Issam Sissalem, Chairman History Dept., Islamic University, Gaza*_*
Albaz, PA TV Interviewer*

*Albaz:* "Where did the story of Solomon’s Temple come from?"

*Al-Qidwa:* "Solomon’s Temple, I believe, was built by the Canaanites who were the neighbors of the Israelis, the Israelites... I want to state several words clearly: the Bible became an archival document, not representing what the Israelis and the first Jews were, but what they thought they were, what they imagined. The Temple is the fruit of their imagination. In any case, when our nation or our Canaanite forefathers came to Palestine, they built the Temple… a temple in Jerusalem."

*Sissalem: *"We, as the Palestinian nation fighting for its freedom and liberation, must not focus to much attention on these false [Biblical] legends. The history of our land continues more than ten thousand years. The land of battles and wars, [many] armies, tribes and commanders came through. I want to point out that we should not focus much on what is called the [Biblical] Hebrew tribes, who are in fact Bedouin – Arab tribes. There is no connection between them and these Khazar Jews [of Israel today]. Those [Hebrew - Arab] tribes were erased and ceased to exist and no traces were left of them… That group did not have a pure religion. They claimed that Solomon, may he rest in peace, built the Temple. Does the land testify to this? Solomon was a prophet and we see him as a Muslim and part of our [Islamic] heritage… There is no historical text that proves the existence [of the temple] or that it has a real history other than the Bible, and the Bible as we have previously mentioned… was written based on ancient legends."

(full article online)

Canaanite "forefathers of Palestinians" built the Temple  - Jewish history in Land of Israel erased | PMW


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## Sixties Fan

[ Repeat something often enough, long enough......and voila.....history is rewritten ]

"They are trying to claim that they have been there 3,000 years ago. Well, guess what? The Canaanites, which are Arab tribes, were there 5,000 years ago. So if you are going to have any historical claim to it because you think you were there first, well, then you have got to go to the Canaanites, who are in the Bible. They were there 5,000 years ago, almost two thousand years before anybody from the Israelites came.






[...]

"Goliath... with a rock... With a rock, [David] kills Goliath. The first Intifada, the first uprising in Palestine, was with rocks."

(full article online)

Muslim Center Of Middlesex County, NJ Hosts Pro-BDS Event, Speakers Encourage Boycotting J Street, American Companies: 'If You Look At The Whole History, They Did Not Spend More Than... 200 Years [In Palestine],' 'Most Of The Jews Today Are Not The Children Of Israel... They Are Not Even Jews'


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Peace is meant to be the acceptance of the other as well as recognition of his or her national identity, narrative and history. If that is so, then why would the Palestinians want to claim the Dead Sea Scrolls as their own? Are they claiming, for example, that the Genesis Apocryphon, the only copy of a 2,000-yearold Jewish text elaborating on the Book of Genesis, tells their story? Were the Essenes, the Jewish sect that lived in the area of Qumran and wrote the scrolls, actually Palestinian Muslims and not Jews? This is not just absurd, it is sad. Unfortunately, it is highly possible that a resolution claiming that the Dead Sea Scrolls belong to the Palestinians will pass in a place like UNESCO.

(full article online)

Denying Jewish history


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## Sixties Fan

[ What do some Jews get out of defaming their own people and indigenous land?  Is it out of fear?  What of?]

Over the past several months, _The Florida Jewish Journal _has published six anti-Israel screeds by Irwin Shishko, a former Wall Street economist who regularly mischaracterizes important aspects of the Jewish state and its history.

Most recently, the paper published an attack on Christian Zionism in which Shishko speculated, “Very likely, the Balfour Declaration encouraged American Jews to back pro-British, pro-war sentiment, and help draw the U.S. into WW I.”

There's just one problem, but it's a big one: The U.S. declared war on Germany on April 6, 1917. The British issued the Balfour Declaration _several months later_, on November 2, 1917.

Obviously, there is simply no way that the Balfour Declaration had any impact whatsoever on America's entrance into World War I, which was brought about largely as a result of growing hostility over Americans dying in German U-boat attacks.

This is the type of misinformation that _The Florida Jewish Journal _has been broadcasting to its readers since August of 2017 when it began publishing Shisko's writing.

In these articles he has trafficked in a number of ugly tropes about Israel and American Jews, most notably portraying them as all-powerful war-mongers who are indifferent to Palestinian suffering and the ethical demands of their religion. In addition to relying on ad hominem attacks, Shishko omits crucial facts and in some instances introduces factual misstatements into his articles to further his agenda. Not one of the six articles written by Shishko and published by_The Florida Jewish Journal _is free of factual errors or egregious distortions, all of which undermine the credibility of Israel and Zionism.


Shishko has a right to his opinions, but he does not have a right to his own facts. The lax editorial attitude by the publication toward his incendiary falsehoods and slurs against Israel is highly  unprofessional and readers should urge an end to such dereliction.

(full article online)

CAMERA: The Florida Jewish Journal Must Stop Publishing Columnist's Falsehoods and Distortions


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## Sixties Fan

Source: Official Palestinian Authority TV, Apr. 3, 2016
_Official PA TV program _The Occupied Capital _on Israel harming tourism in Jerusalem_

*Archeologist at the Israeli Arab Al-Aqsa Institute for Islamic Trusts and Heritage Abir Zayyad:* "They are trying to enlist all of the archeological sites in Jerusalem in support of the alleged Jewish history in Jerusalem. We have a number of examples of this. The most conspicuous example is the city of Jebus, in the village of Silwan, where Jerusalem developed 10,000 years ago, becoming a real city 4,000 years ago. The occupation is always trying to present it to tourists as a city built by David (i.e., King David), or that David lived in, but David has no connection to the antiquities there, as the antiquities are completely Palestinian Arab."

All media


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Source: Official Palestinian Authority TV, Apr. 3, 2016
> _Official PA TV program _The Occupied Capital _on Israel harming tourism in Jerusalem_
> 
> *Archeologist at the Israeli Arab Al-Aqsa Institute for Islamic Trusts and Heritage Abir Zayyad:* "They are trying to enlist all of the archeological sites in Jerusalem in support of the alleged Jewish history in Jerusalem. We have a number of examples of this. The most conspicuous example is the city of Jebus, in the village of Silwan, where Jerusalem developed 10,000 years ago, becoming a real city 4,000 years ago. The occupation is always trying to present it to tourists as a city built by David (i.e., King David), or that David lived in, but David has no connection to the antiquities there, as the antiquities are completely Palestinian Arab."
> 
> All media




I don't understand how normal people can buy into this.  The world has gone mad.  But I guess people eat Tide pods, so .... shrug.


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## Sixties Fan

The government warned of the Israeli excavations south and south-west of the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque plaza, and in the Al-Buraq (i.e., Western Wall) plaza, and demanded international intervention to cancel the implementation of the Israeli government’s decision to place prayer platforms for Jews on the Islamic Waqf’s territory in the area of the Mughrabi Gate, near the western wall of the Al-Aqsa Mosque plaza (i.e., the Western Wall)… The government emphasized that attempts to attack the Al-Buraq plaza are in fact an act of aggression against the Al-Aqsa Mosque and the Islamic waqfs (i.e., an inalienable religious endowment in Islamic law).

(full article online)

PA government: The Western Wall "is an inseparable part of the Al-Aqsa Mosque plaza" and "everything it faces… belongs to Muslims alone” - Jerusalem's Temple/Jewish history denied | PMW


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## Sixties Fan

PA Ministry of Foreign Affairs accuses Israel of “Judaization” of Jerusalem; calls on UN to intervene 

Source: WAFA, official PA news agency, July 2, 2017

Headline: "The [PA] Ministry of Foreign Affairs: The operations to Judaize the Al-Buraq plaza and tunnel necessitate that the UN organizations implement their decisions and defend them"

"The [PA] Ministry of Foreign Affairs condemned the occupation's Judaization plan to build a new level under the Al-Buraq (i.e., the Western Wall of the Temple Mount) plaza at the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque…
This was stated following the exposé of the Hebrew weekly Jerusalem, according to which Jerusalem occupation Mayor [Nir Barkat], during a tour with members of the ruling Likud party, announced the municipality’s intention to build an additional level at the Al-Buraq plaza (apparently referring to plan for a tunnel under the Western Wall plaza to improve handicapped accessibility - the source noted here does not exist and these statements could not be found in Israeli newspapers -Ed.) and presented a draft of the aforementioned plan, as part of the occupation’s many plans to deepen the Judaization operations at the Al-Buraq plaza and tunnel…


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## Sixties Fan

Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida - June 30, 2017

















Headline: "The occupation police closed the Al-Aqsa Mosque and settlers invaded it"

"Those that are called 'alleged temple' organizations and extremist [Israeli] occupation government Minister of Agriculture Uri Ariel two days ago [June 28, 2017] called on the settler public to participate in its masses in group invasions of the Al-Aqsa Mosque yesterday, Thursday, to mark the anniversary of the killing of settler Hallel Ariel (13-year-old Israeli girl, stabbed to death by a terrorist as she slept in her bed–Ed.), who was killed last year in one of the settlements in Hebron…
Supreme Shari’ah Judge of Palestine and [PA] President [Mahmoud Abbas’] advisor on Religious and Islamic Affairs Mahmoud Al-Habbash… noted that the extremist groups, which are supported by the Israeli political and security echelon, take advantage of every religious or political incident or event in order to connect it to the ongoing invasions of the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque. This is in an attempt to cover up the crimes against the Muslims and the sites holy to Islam in Jerusalem, and the fact that they [the Muslims] are being prevented from holding their religious ceremonies that are anchored in international law, and also in order to prepare the mood for implementing the division of the Jerusalem Noble Sanctuary (i.e., the Temple Mount) according to areas and times, as was done at the Ibrahimi Mosque (i.e., Cave of the Patriarchs). Al-Habbash emphasized that these holy sites are a pure Palestinian Islamic heritage to which non-Muslims have no right, as was determined by the latest UNESCO (UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization) decisions."

(full article online)

Abbas’ religious advisor: Israel “invading”’ the Temple Mount, a “purely Palestinian Islamic site” - Jerusalem's Temple/Jewish history denied | PMW


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## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority (PA) chairman Mahmoud Abbas said on Wednesday that the Palestinian people are facing a "large plot" against their rights and capital, adding that their resistance will not stop in defending the land and the holy sites.

In a speech at a conference in Ramallah, Abbas said that Al-Quds (the Arabic name for Jerusalem -ed.) is the eternal capital of “Palestine”, and that the Palestinians’ right to it is based on a history that has lasted more than 5,000 years. "Our ancestors, the Jebusites, built the city of Al-Quds to serve as their capital,” he claimed.

Abbas further said that the Arab and Palestinian presence in Al-Quds has never ceased since the Palestinians are "descendants of the Canaanites."

In January, Abbas claimed that 5,000 years ago the Levant was inhabited by “Arab Canaanites” – whom he said were the ancestors of today’s Palestinian Arabs.

(full article online)

Abbas praises Hamas for 'popular resistance'


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## Sixties Fan

Egyptian journalist Dr. Hoda Zakariya, a lecturer on political sociology, said that while “there was some persecution of the Jews by Hitler,” the scope of the Holocaust is a “well-known historical rumor.”

(vide video online)

WATCH: ‘Scope of the Holocaust is Just a Rumor,’ Lies Egyptian Journalist


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## Sixties Fan

In keeping with the Palestinian tradition of double-talk, Zomlot informed his Jewish audience, in English, what he would never dare say in Arabic -- that the Palestinians will one day recognize the Jewish connection to Jerusalem.

Addressing the annual conference of J Street on April 16, the PLO envoy said that Palestinians would "celebrate the Jewish connection to Jerusalem" once a Palestinian state was established with East Jerusalem as its capital.

"Once a state of Palestine is established, once that state has East Jerusalem as its capital, that city will not only recognize the Jewish connection, but we will celebrate the Jewish connection to Jerusalem," Zomlot said.

These are nice words to hear from the mouth of a senior representative of the PLO -- which Palestinians themselves often refer to as the Professional Liars Organization. But would this PLO representative ever dare to make such a statement in front of a Palestinian or Arab audience? The answer, bluntly, is No.

If Zomlot made such a statement in his native Arabic language, he would be denounced as a traitor -- if he were very lucky. If he were less lucky, he would end up in a hospital or morgue.

Just as Zomlot was lying to his Jewish audience, Palestinians in the Gaza Strip were chanting the famous battle cry: "We will march toward Jerusalem, we will sacrifice millions of martyrs."

(full article online)

Palestinians: New Twist on an Old Lie


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## Sixties Fan

_*The following is the report on Al-Habbash's recent statements in the official PA daily:
*_
"Supreme Shari'ah Judge of Palestine, [PA] President [Mahmoud Abbas'] advisor on Religious and Islamic Affairs, Mahmoud Al-Habbash discussed with Sudanese Minister of Guidance and Endowments Abu Bakr Othman Ibrahim... bilateral relations and expanding the cooperation between the two states...

Al-Habbash also gave a religious and political lecture at the end of the events of the 21st Season of Culture and _Dawah_ (i.e., preaching), which is organized by the Islamic University in Omdurman, Sudan...

During the lecture, *Al-Habbash refuted the claims that the Israeli occupation is spreading against Palestine and its residents by falsifying history and the religious and political facts through fabricated and false myths.*
*
He said: 'After World War II ended, the colonialist states wanted to get rid of the presence of the Jews of Europe, who had a monopoly over the economy and capital. Therefore, they supported these claims and helped them establish their state on the land of Palestine at the expense of the Palestinian people, who are still suffering from this crime*.'"
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, April 24, 2018

(full article online)

Europe's desire to get rid of remaining Jews after WWII made it support Zionism, says Abbas advisor  - PMW Bulletins


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Mindful

Peace partner Mahmoud Abbas goes full anti Semite.

“Peace Partner” Mahmoud Abbas Goes Full Antisemite


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## Mindful

Some of his ramblings:

Authority President Mahmoud Abbas on Monday said that the Holocaust was not caused by anti-Semitism, but by the “social behavior” of the Jews, including money-lending.

In a long and rambling at speech in Ramallah at a rare session of the Palestinian National Council, Abbas touched on a number of anti-Semitic conspiracy theories during what he called a “history lesson,” as he sought to prove the 3,000 year-old Jewish connection to the Land of Israel is false.

Abbas said his narrative was backed by three points made by Jewish writers and historians, the first being the theory oft-criticized as anti-Semitic that Ashkenazi Jews are not the descendants of the ancient Israelites.


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## Sixties Fan

There obviously were pogroms in the Arab world against Jews, although not to the extent of pogroms in Europe. But a few of them are notable to mention in context of Abbas' speech.

"In 1834, there was a huge Arab pogrom against Jews that lasted 33 days in the town that Mahmoud Abbas was born in, Safed (Tzfat.) Chances are some of his relatives participated in it."

This source says 500 were killed:

" In 1834 the local Arabs rebelled against the new Egyptian governor who ruled Ottoman Palestine between 1831 to 1841. The rebellion against this governor, Muhammad Ali, expanded to include attacks against the Jews of Palestine. While the Jews of certain cities like Jerusalem were spared, Tzfat was not. A Safed Islamic clergyman named Muhamad Damoor incited the Moslems to attack the Jews of Tzfat. On June 15, 1834, local Arabs and Bedouins, including the Arabs who lived in the Arab Quarter of Tzfat itself, invaded Tzfat’s Jewish Quarter.

The Arabs destroyed homes, plundered synagogues and businesses and burned much of the city. Eyewitnesses described scenes of torture, and murder over the course of 33 days. 
Historians estimated that over 500 people were killed and many others were blinded and maimed.I couldn't corroborate the 500 killed, but many were.Here's another description:

 The Palestinian Arabs of the Eastern Galilee took advantage of a regional crisis, the war between Egypt and Turkey, to attack their Jewish neighbors and strip them of everything they had: clothes, properties, houses, and the like. In the process people were beaten in the streets, many times to death, synagogues destroyed and holy books desecrated. An entire community of 2,000 souls (Kinglake says 4,000) was forced into hiding for 33 days, in caves, ruins, inhospitable mountaintops, and basements. In that mayhem there were good Arabs who saved lives, like the people of the village of Ein Zeitim and a few individuals, Muslims and Christians from the city itself, but there were also the double crossers who promised to help for a large sum of money, only to hand over the Jews to the rioting mob outside the hideout. For 33 days the lives of the Jews of Safed had practically no value, and anyone of them who showed his or her face in public was at risk of been beaten to death, sometimes by people they knew as neighbors or business associates."


This is a classic pogrom by any definition.

But what about the 1929 riots that killed scores of Jews in Hebron, and the earlier massacre in 1921?

Abbas actually mentioned them in his speech - admiringly - calling the Arabs who butchered Jews "revolutionaries."

Abbas is an antisemite who considers Arabs butchering Jewish woman and children "revolutionaries" - and then tells people that Arabs always treated Jews well.

(full article online)

Abbas claims that there were no Arab pogroms against Jews. There was one IN HIS OWN HOMETOWN. He also calls the 1929 Hebron murderers "revolutionaries." ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

Harry's Place » Jonathan Rosenhead & the Evil Zionist Conspiracy that Never Was


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## Sixties Fan

REWRITING HISTORY AT THE  HOLOCAUST MUSEUM: Why FDR abandoned the Jews


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## Sixties Fan

Had he turned to Arab rather than Soviet scholarship, Abbas would have learned that “history is a science,” as historian Ibn Khaldun stated in his Muqaddimah, the 1337 book widely appreciated as a groundbreaking treatise on the philosophy of history.

Abbas’s communist commissars, by contrast, saw in historiography not an academic discipline but a political weapon and a propagandist’s toy. Had he realized that history is a science, Abbas would have understood that historiography’s first prerequisites are documentation and impartiality.

That would have made him understand that one can’t say, for instance, that Hitler “wanted the Jewish country to be loyal to him,” or that “the hatred of the Jews was not due to their religion” – without sounding like an idiot.

To recall the role of religion in what happened to the Jews, Abbas need only turn to the Arab effort to repel the Vatican’s retreat in 1965 from its historic libel that the Jews killed God.

Addressing a World Muslim League emergency meeting in Mecca at the time, the Mufti of Saudi Arabia cried that “the Catholics” are letting “a circle of prelates, seduced by and in complicity with Zionism, to trifle with dogmas and shatter religious convictions that have survived for two thousand years” (Bernard Lewis, Semites and Anti-Semites, 1986, p. 223).

No, historians don’t have to be neutral, but they have to be objective, they must display evidence, and they must be emotionally prepared to accept what it attests. Abbas might have done all this, had he studied history at Oxford, Princeton or the Sorbonne, rather than with Leonid Brezhnev’s lieutenants at Moscow’s Patrice Lumumba University.

Unearthing the past also demands curiosity for adversaries’ feelings, the way Israeli historians, from Yehoshua Porat to Benny Morris, imagined the Palestinians’ suffering when they probed their national struggle.

Had he been intellectually curious, Abbas would have realized that his native Safed is not only the town of his yearnings but also the town where a Jew named Shlomo Alkabetz wrote no less longingly: “King’s city, the city of kingdom / Arise, emerge from the rubble... Wear the garb of your glory, my nation / By the son of Jesse of Bethlehem,” lines sung for more than 500 years by now every Friday night by millions of Jews, including those Abbas diagnosed as descendants of Khazars, and those he fingered as usurers, and those he now besmirches as dirty-footed defilers of holy sites.

Yet Abbas is not intellectually curious, and he thinks that if he says that he is “tired of hearing” about the Jews “coming to this country because of their longing for Zion or whatever,” he will babble away this crucial element of his predicament.

LACKING the historian’s instincts and tools, Abbas has waged a propaganda war based on three lies: that the Jews don’t belong in their land, that the conflict was a Jewish plot, and that its violence was a Jewish choice.

That is why he wrote (“The long overdue Palestinian state,” New York Times, 16 May 2011) that, following the UN’s partition resolution, “Zionist forces expelled Palestinian Arabs... and Arab armies intervened,” whereas in fact the Palestinian attack on the Jews, and the Arab armies’ invasions preceded rather than followed the war’s displacements, just as partition – unlike Abbas’s insinuation – was rejected by the Arabs and accepted by the Jews.

(full article online)

History notes for Mahmoud Abbas


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## Sixties Fan

Even in crossword puzzles the PA presents a world without Israel - PMW Bulletins


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## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> REWRITING HISTORY AT THE  HOLOCAUST MUSEUM: Why FDR abandoned the Jews



Incidentally, my mom's family were denied visas to America after the war, which obliged them to move to Israel.  That is why it's important that Israel exists.

(I must say, though, that the article you posted doesn't mention Israel at all, so I don't know why you posted it here.)


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## Picaro

Sixties Fan said:


> REWRITING HISTORY AT THE  HOLOCAUST MUSEUM: Why FDR abandoned the Jews



Well, for one, neither the U.S. nor FDR owned Jews in the first place, slo it wasn't possible to abandon them or anybody else, and for two, the U.S. loosened immigration restrictions for many Jews, while still keeping them in place for others, thus discriminating against others just as 'needy' in your favor as a people, and these immigration restrictions were in place for all immigration since the 1920's, after millions upon millions upon millions of Jews, Germans, Italians, Slavs, and other ethnicities had been coming in for generation after generation, so go fuck yourself with your whining; the U.S. did far more than it was ever obliged to do, for anybody, so maybe it's time for you to start pointing out the rest of the world out there and criticizing it for once. You have no place at all to be crying about FDR or America, period. We don't owe anybody anything, never did, not even the time of day, so take the whining elsewhere.


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## Picaro

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> REWRITING HISTORY AT THE  HOLOCAUST MUSEUM: Why FDR abandoned the Jews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Incidentally, my mom's family were denied visas to America after the war, which obliged them to move to Israel.  That is why it's important that Israel exists.
> 
> (I must say, though, that the article you posted doesn't mention Israel at all, so I don't know why you posted it here.)
Click to expand...


Because he hopes to make American feel guilty about something; we're pretty much the only nation around who will have enough people who will feel guilty whether justified or not, and then shovel money at and slash wrists over any idiot with a snivel. If we were indeed all that 'racists' and those evul Xian WASPS so racist n shit, we wouldn't be having any problems at all these days. That's because all the minorities would be dead, so nobody would be left to snivel about it. We would just be like everybody else, you know, those countries nobody ever snivels about because everybody knows they don't give a shit about minorities and their whining, they just kill them and be done with it.


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## Sixties Fan

Text and image posted on the official Fatah Facebook page

The image shows people in in _keffiyehs_ (Arab headdresses) walking towards "Palestine," depicted by the PA map of “Palestine” that presents all of Israel as “Palestine” together with the PA areas with the Dome of the Rock appearing at the location of Jerusalem. To the left of the map is written "Palestine."

*Posted text:* "Land Day is the height of the Palestinian people's unity everywhere and an expression of the feelings of belonging to one people, no matter how different the suffering in the different parts of the homeland and in the refugee camps. It is not odd that the main arena of this intifada is the territory that was occupied in 1948 (i.e., Israel), as the masses of our people in this part of the homeland – with their resolve, their remaining on their land, and their defense of this land – are simply the opposite of the Zionist project as a whole…
Khalil Nazzal
Fatah Movement Secretary in Warsaw"

Fatah Facebook post features map of “Palestine” replacing Israel, “the territory that was occupied in 1948”  - Denying Israel's right to exist | PMW


----------



## Sixties Fan

Inside the museum are several videos. The most important one is the one which places the conflict into context. It never matters how balanced you want to seem, if you distort the history you are intentionally influencing opinion in your favour. The Arabs are continually rewriting history to have this effect. They want people to bridge the gap between the good (the Arabs) and the bad (the Jews).

Watch the video:




It is difficult to overstate the historical distortion in the video. A clever piece of propaganda which uses additional imagery to convey further misconceptions. It completely denies Jewish history to the land and presents Jews as alien invaders. The only reason Jews turned up was because they had ‘nowhere else to go’. The Arabs inside the Mandate become innocent victims as all those around them fight. There is no connection at all to the tale in the video (the virgin Nakba) and what really happened. Anyone watching or digesting any of this video as fact has been tainted by antisemitic propaganda.

(full article online)

Banksy and the alien god killers that occupy Bethlehem


----------



## Sixties Fan

Forgetting the other obvious lies of Ashrawi, it is past time to look at the Palestinian claim that Israel is "Judaizing" Israel.

Israel has been the center of Jewish prayer and thought since the days of Moses. The archaeological evidence alone (which the Palestinians strenuously deny exists) is overwhelming.  Way before Zionism, Jews have made rebuilding Jerusalem the central motif of their prayers.   The rocks and stones of Israel are witness to the miracle of the rebirth of the Jewish nation in much of her historic lands.

When Ashrawi and Abbas and the other Palestinian leaders complain about "Judaizing" the Jewish home, they are denying Jewish history, Jewish practice and millennia of Jewish longing.

It goes hand in hand with the Arab claim that Jews are not a nation or a people, but merely a faith.

If "Judaizing" is such a crime, what is Islamicizing? Because the entire religion of Islam is an attempt to supersede Judaism (and to a lesser extent Christianity.)  Every single Islamic tenet is a distortion of a Jewish law. Every single Jewish shrine in Israel, bar none, is claimed by Muslims to be their own, even though every single one of them is older than Islam. The mosques on the Temple Mount, at the Cave of the Patriarchs and at Rachel's Tomb were built deliberately to erase Jewish history and claims.

The claim of "Judaizing" is Arabs saying that Jews do not belong in the land that everyone (including the Quran) knows is Jewish. At best, the Jews should be tolerated as second class citizens under a supremacist Islamic ideology and political system.

(full article online)

The Palestinian claim that Israel is "Judaizing" the Jewish homeland is antisemitic ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to UNESCO, the Palestinians, and the Muslim States, Israel, and the Jewish People have no right to Jerusalem. It is this fake belief that until Donald Trump became president, kept the U.S. from recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and the Jewish world. Most of the world outside America continues to believe the Palestinian/Muslim propaganda that ignores that the ancient Greeks, Romans, Christians, and even the ancient Muslims, reported Jerusalem and the Temple Mount were the property of the Jewish people.

(full article online)

The Quran, The Gospels, And Tanach Say Jerusalem Is Jewish So Why Doesn't Everyone?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Earlier today we *tweeted* this famous 1948 image, originally 
photographed by the remarkable John Roy Carlson [Source] 

An article in yesterday's *Jordan Times* ["_Changing Arabic names of Jerusalem heritage sites is attempt to ‘Judaise’ city - study_", May 27, 2018] provides an illustration. (The emphasis is ours):
The Israeli occupation has changed the Arabic names of 667 archaeological and heritage sites in Jerusalem with the aim of “Judaising the city” and “erasing its historical and religious identity”, according to a recent study.

“Replacing the Arabic names is part of a *long-term and systematic attempt to distort facts and falsify the real identity* of the holy city until the future generation forgets its Arab and Islamic identity,” Ibrahim Bazazo, researcher and dean of the Faculty of Tourism and Hospitality at the University of Jordan told The Jordan Times on Sunday.

The study was conducted over the course of three years by Jordanians Omar Jawabreh, Mohammad Sarayreh, Haitham Abdelraza and Bazazo, under the title “Towards Sustainable Documentation of Geographical Names of Touristic and Heritage Sites in Occupied Jerusalem Using Geographical Information System [GIS]”. Researchers used documents dating back to the 18th and 19th centuries, including holy books, historical and geographical atlases..."It goes on in this vein, accusing the enemy of "_forcing a ‘Judaised’ identity_" and blaming "_the Israeli occupation_" for replacing "_Arabic names not only from all signs and banners but also from *school books and official curricula*_". (The very loaded issue of school books offers an egregious example of a Jordanian talent for skating on thin ice.)

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 28-May-18: Names and identities: A Jerusalem battlefield


----------



## Sixties Fan

They used the Zionist movement, which was established... by peoples of the K hazar tribes, who have no connection to the children of Jacob (Israel) [parentheses in source]...
Since Canaanite Palestine is an organic part of the Fertile Crescent (a region of the Middle East where early human agriculture and civilization flourished -Ed.),* the colonialist and imperialist forces decided to choose Palestine in order to plant an aggressive entity in it that would divide the united Arab nation into east and west, north and south*."
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, May 12, 2018]

(full article online)

Fatah: Israel worse than Nazis, wants to "crush" the Arab world, "steal its resources" - PMW Bulletins


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## Sixties Fan

"The alleged ‘Temple organizations’ increased their calls through their websites and social media to their supporters and the settler public to invade the Al-Aqsa Mosque on our Palestinian people's _Nakba_ Day (i.e., “the catastrophe,” Palestinian term for the establishment of the State of Israel)."

_"Alleged Temple organizations" refer to religious Jewish movements including the Temple Mount Institute, the Temple Mount Heritage Foundation, The Initiative for Jewish Freedom on the Temple Mount and Students for the Temple Mount, which spread awareness of the importance of the Temple Mount in Judaism and encourage people to visit the site. 

The PA and its leaders consider all of the Temple Mount an integral part of the Al-Aqsa Mosque. Therefore they view any presence of Jews on the mount as an "invasion." It should be noted that Jews who visit the Temple Mount only enter some sections of the open areas, and do not enter the Al-Aqsa Mosque or the Dome of the Rock._
_
(full article online)

PA daily calls visits of Jews to the Temple Mount “invasions” of “settlers,” refers to “alleged ‘Temple organizations’” - Jerusalem's Temple/Jewish history denied | PMW_


----------



## Sixties Fan

WAFA, official PA news agency - Mar. 1, 2017

















Headline: “Ida’is: More than 95 Israeli attacks and violations against the holy sites and places of worship during February”

“[PA] Minister of Religious Affairs Sheikh Yusuf Ida’is said that… the UNESCO (UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization) resolution [of Oct. 13, 2016] regarding the Al-Aqsa Mosque is most important, particularly at this difficult stage in which the Al-Aqsa Mosque is subject to the strongest attack history has known. Therefore, [he said] it is necessary to implement the resolution on the ground immediately, and the Arabs and Muslims must have a practical plan for the defense of the Al-Aqsa Mosque. He explained that in February [2017] the mosque was subject to a strong attack of invasions, lies, and media statements that completely contradict reality. The latest of them was the occupied Jerusalem Magistrate Court ruling, which determined that the Al-Aqsa Mosque (i.e., the Temple Mount) is holy to Jews and they have a right to pray there, and that no one can prevent them from entering its plazas and going up to what is termed ‘the Temple Mount’ (for the actual ruling see note below –Ed.). This is alongside the claim of the occupation police’s Minister of Public Security [Gilad Erdan] that ‘the Temple Mount’ is the holiest site to the Jewish people, and only to the Jewish people (sic., Erdan did not specify that the site is holy only to the Jewish people -Ed).
Ida’is again emphasized that the Al-Aqsa Mosque, with all of its plazas, is completely Islamic, and no decision of a court, whatever its name may be, or of any person, will change the irrefutable truth regarding the Islamicness of the site.”

(full article online)

PA minister: Temple Mount is “completely Islamic,” is under “strongest attack history has known” - Jerusalem's Temple/Jewish history denied | PMW


----------



## Sixties Fan

_Mahmoud Al-Habbash, the PA Supreme Shari'a Judge and President Mahmoud 'Abbas's advisor for religious affairs, said at a June 4, 2018 conference that the struggle in Jerusalem is between the rightful owners of the city – the Muslims and Christians – and "some foreign Western imperialists that have no connection to this soil." He added that the state of Israel is an imperialist Western enterprise whose purpose is to weaken and divide the Arab world, and that the claim that the Jews have a historical connection to Jerusalem is nothing but a distortion of history._

_The conference at which Al-Habbash spoke, organized by "the Muslim-Christian Council for the Salvation of Jerusalem and the Holy Places" and the Organization for Muslim Cooperation (OIC) under the title "The Monotheistic Religions against the Judaization of Jerusalem and Its Holy Places," was also attended by other PA officials, including the Palestinian Mufti, as well as other Christian and Muslim religious leaders, and ambassadors._

(full article online)

Palestinian Authority Supreme Shari'a Judge And Abbas' Advisor Mahmoud Al-Habbash: The Jews Have No Connection To Jerusalem; This Is An Imperialist Myth And Distortion Of History


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian foreign ministry issued a statementwarning about how Israel is lying to the world about any Jewish history in Jerusalem.

"This campaign includes various fields and areas, whether diplomatic, sports or cultural, and it uses any excuse to pass on its lies and its Judaic narrative about the Holy City and its many historical sites," the ministry said in a statement.

It warned that Israel is bringing international visitors to visit "occupied Jerusalem with an infusion of fabricated information and the falsification of the facts about occupation."

(full article online)

Palestinian Authority warns world Israel is fabricating Jewish history in Jerusalem ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The New York Times had an article on Friday by Michael David Lukas, a writer who spent a lot of time looking at ancient Jewish cemeteries mostly in  Muslim countries like Tunisia and Egypt.

Not once in the article is the reader given any context as to why the Jews who had lived in these places for so long suddenly disappeared. 

The taboo of mentioning the obvious fact of Muslim antisemitism - especially after Israel was reborn, but also throughout history - is simply too strong.

Instead of being ethnically cleansed, the Jews who attended these synagogues just magically disappeared.

(full article online)

NYTimes talks about Jews who disappeared from Muslim countries without  mentioning why ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The author states the purpose of the book in the introduction: "to refute the Jewish claim to their historical right in Palestine."

That's Palestinianism in a nutshell - to deny Jewish history.

Just imagine any other encyclopedia whose introduction says that its purpose isn't to teach the history of the cover subject, but to refute the history of an entirely different group of people.

Of course, the book has to create a fake history where Arabs inhabited Palestine before Jews.

"The right of the Arabs in Palestine is immaculate and true. They are connected to it, and inhabited it since the dawn of its history and before there were Jews in the world," the book is quoted as saying.

Meaning that suddenly the Hittites. Jebusites, Amorites and other Canaanites were somehow all Arab.


(full article online)

Palestinians write an entire encyclopedia to deny Jewish nationalism ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

[ Israel, allowing Islam to destroy Jewish History ]

So the Waqf did what so many faithful Muslim officials do when faced with a legal prohibition: they cheated, using the Israeli gesture of closing off the Temple Mount to Jews on the last week of Ramadan to complete their heinous crime against history and culture, and recruited more than 1,000 men to remove the piles of soil – this time making sure to get rid of the pesky evidence of there ever being a Jewish Temple there.

According to Makor Rishon, a group of Jews who stood near the Temple Mount gates one night this week noticed a truck entering the compound.

At this point, those tall piles of soil are gone from the Temple Mount, replaced by terraced stones. The crime paid. All evidence of a Jewish Temple have been permanently eliminated.

Israel Police offered a reassuring statement in response to the Makor Rishon inquiry – read slowly, let the implied message sink in: “The irregularity has been identified by Israel Police, and once the situation is restored to normal by the Waqf and under the supervision of professionals, additional measures will be weighed.”

(full article online)

Using Ramadan as Cover, 1,000 Waqf Workers ‘Cleared’ Soil Rich with Evidence of Jewish Temple


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## Sixties Fan

[ If they say so.....it must be so.....And the problem of not fully defeating your enemy]

The Palestinian Authority (PA) envoy to Iraq recently said that the Jews “are not a people” and also invited Iraqi militias to “liberate Palestine”.

PA official: Jews 'are not a people'


----------



## Votto

Sixties Fan said:


> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?



History is not the friend of Islam.  The Dead Sea Scrolls show that the Bible has not been tampered with as Mohammad claimed, the Holocaust actually did happen, and Jerusalem was a city of the Jewish people thousands of years ago.

This is why ISIS is busy destroying as many historical sites as they can.  They wish to rewrite history.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Today, Israeli security forces belatedly tried to do something about these archaeological crimes.

According to Ma'an, Israeli police arrested the head of the security department at the al-Aqsa Mosque, Abdullah Abu Talib, and took him to the Bab al-Silsila police station.

At the same time security forces dismantled the terraces and removed the olive tree saplings planted in the area of the debris, that Muslims call the "Bab al Rahma" area.

Ma'an confirms that "at the end of Ramadan, hundreds of worshipers launched a campaign under the slogan "Bab al-Rahma ... a carpet of cleaning and reconstruction" to rebuild, improve, beautify and attract the Bab al-Rahma area. Within a few days, the worshipers managed to organize the Bab al-Rahma area, laying stone fences, high terraces, benches and stone tables as well as planting olive seedlings."

(full article and photos online)

Israeli police detain head of Al Aqsa security over archaeological crimes ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Today, Israeli security forces belatedly tried to do something about these archaeological crimes.
> 
> According to Ma'an, Israeli police arrested the head of the security department at the al-Aqsa Mosque, Abdullah Abu Talib, and took him to the Bab al-Silsila police station.
> 
> At the same time security forces dismantled the terraces and removed the olive tree saplings planted in the area of the debris, that Muslims call the "Bab al Rahma" area.
> 
> Ma'an confirms that "at the end of Ramadan, hundreds of worshipers launched a campaign under the slogan "Bab al-Rahma ... a carpet of cleaning and reconstruction" to rebuild, improve, beautify and attract the Bab al-Rahma area. Within a few days, the worshipers managed to organize the Bab al-Rahma area, laying stone fences, high terraces, benches and stone tables as well as planting olive seedlings."
> 
> (full article and photos online)
> 
> Israeli police detain head of Al Aqsa security over archaeological crimes ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



Israel restrains itself too much sometimes.


----------



## Sixties Fan

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/holy-only-to-jews/


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arabs come up with a new Khazar theory ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Arab Israeli (?) sitting in Jerusalem and calling it our State of Palestine ]


----------



## Sixties Fan

A talk about the legal status of Jerusalem by Ziad AbuZayyad, a former PA minister, highlights the absurdity and bias that passes for scholarship at the UN.

After slyly saying that Jerusalem was founded by Canaanites and then "occupied" by King David, he jumps through legal hoops to pretend that "Palestine" has a legal claim to Jerusalem and Israel has none:

 To conclude, the status of Jerusalem under the international law is still defined and ruled by the UNGA Resolution 181 as an area of non-sovereignty, under international supervision.

...All Israeli measures in city are null and void.

Palestine has a valid claim to sovereignty over the city based on the fact that under the Ottomans and during the British Mandate, Jerusalem was an integral part of the territory of Palestine and was
its administrative capital. Palestinian Arabs were the overwhelming majority of the population until the Jewish immigration altered the  demographic structure of the city.

On the other hand, the Israeli claim to sovereignty over Jerusalem has no basis in UN General Assembly Resolution 181 since the resolution never envisaged that Jerusalem would form part of the proposed Jewish state, but a corpus separatum subject to international regime.
UNGA 181 is not international law, and to say that Jerusalem is legally under the rule of the UN when the UN never ruled Jerusalem is completely absurd.

His claim that Palestinians have a claim to Jerusalem because Jerusalem was in the "territory of Palestine" (a meaningless phrase) is 180 degrees wrong. His argument is that Palestine was controlled by the Ottomans and British and therefore the Palestinians should control it now. But Israel is the legal successor to the British Mandate - Israel took over all the institutions in Palestine. Therefore, according to his own logic, Israel is the rightful owner of Jerusalem.

The "Jewish immigration" that gave Jews the majority of Jerusalem since the 1860s or so was pre-Zionist. It showed which group of people cared about the city. That argument is twisted and ahistorical.

(full article online)

Speaker at UN conference says Palestinians have legal claim over all Jerusalem; Israel has none ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Dulles was a prominent layman of the Presbyterian Church and active in The National Council of the Churches of Christ in the USA before becoming a diplomat. It seems obvious that when he accused Jews of killing Mohammed, he was really thinking about Jews killing the founder of his own religion.

Even though his aides told him during testimony that he was mistaken about Jews killing Mohammed, it took him ten days to correct his statement.

This was hardly the only antisemitic statement Dulles made in his career. For example, on June 18, 1956, he responded to Cardinal Spellman’s comment that “Jewish activities are becoming excessively arrogant and demanding” by saying that this “was one of my problems, that I felt it very important to try to demonstrate that the Jews did not in an election year dictate the foreign policy of the United States.” On February 12, 1957, he “mentioned the terrific control the Jews had over the news media and the barrage which the Jews have built on Congressmen.”

(full article online)

When the US Secretary of State justified Saudi antisemitism by saying Jews killed Mohammed ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

South Africa Sermon by Moulana Ihsaan Hendricks: The Jews Have No Right to the Western Wall; It Is an Integral Part of the Al-Aqsa Mosque - Archival


----------



## Sixties Fan

Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida - June 26, 2018

Headline: “The occupation government’s minister of economy and industry invaded the Ibrahimi Mosque”

    “Director and Guardian of the Ibrahimi Mosque (i.e., Cave of the Patriarchs) Sheikh Hafzi Abu Sneineh condemned [Israeli Minister of Economy and Industry Eli] Cohen’s b reaking into the Ibrahimi Mosque (PMW found no record of Cohen recently visiting the Cave of the Patriarchs –Ed.)… He considered his presence unacceptable and offensive to the sensibilities of the Muslims. He said: ‘The Ibrahimi Mosque is solely a Muslim mosque with all of its territory and parts – the interior and exterior ones. The Jews have no connection at all to the Ibrahimi Mosque (sic., the Jewish Patriarchs and Matriarchs other than Rachel are buried at the site), and all of the steps being taken by them against it are null and illegal’…

(full article online)

PA officials deny Jewish connection to Cave of the Patriarchs, and accuse Israel of “forgery of history and the cultural heritage of the holy sites” in Jerusalem and Hebron - Jewish history in Land of Israel erased | PMW


----------



## Sixties Fan

Of course, this means that no one on Earth, except perhaps some Africans, have a homeland, since all of humanity migrated from Africa.

And if Israel isn't the homeland for Jews, it sure as hell isn't the homeland for Palestinians!

This is a typical pattern of Israel haters - they will create a set of rules for Israel in order to damn it, and ignore that applying those rules to everyone else would result in chaos.

(full article online)

Haaretz claims calling Israel the Jewish homeland is a myth ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The idea that the specific site of the current Kotel is the site of where Mohammed tethered his flying steed is completely new, only in the past hundred years. No Muslim source before the 20th century identifies even the western wall as the site - only after the Muslims wanted to assert control over the Kotel did they claim that the site was also the site of Al Buraq.

This was not the only article denying the sanctity of the Western Wall to the Jews in Arabic media today. Palestinian site Elaph has an article about the history of Moroccans in Jerusalem that says "the Wailing Wall has no basis in the Jewish theological heritage."

It is not difficult to see that the Palestinians and Muslims in general are interested in denying any connection of Judaism to Israel. The consistent claiming of literally every Jewish holy site, al of which predate Islam, as being Islamic and not Jewish is not a coincidence. It is the basis of their view of Jews in the Middle East.

(full article online)

Muslim Western Wall denial continues ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## rylah

*Don't say Temple Mount!*


A Christian group visits the Temple Mount,
the tour guide explaining some history to his group, is interupted by the Muslim Waqf and instructed: This is Al Aqsa mosque, DON'T SAY TEMPLE MOUNT! Has it really come to this? On the Temple Mount you can't say the words Temple Mount for fear of being stopped and ejected by the Muslim Waqf! Are all non-Muslims to be dhimmis here?


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> *Don't say Temple Mount!*
> 
> 
> A Christian group visits the Temple Mount,
> the tour guide explaining some history to his group, is interupted by the Muslim Waqf and instructed: This is Al Aqsa mosque, DON'T SAY TEMPLE MOUNT! Has it really come to this? On the Temple Mount you can't say the words Temple Mount for fear of being stopped and ejected by the Muslim Waqf! Are all non-Muslims to be dhimmis here?




Almost time to reassert Jewish rights there.


----------



## Shusha

What would any of you suggest would be the right way to reassert Jewish rights to the Temple Mount?  How would you go about it?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> What would any of you suggest would be the right way to reassert Jewish rights to the Temple Mount?  How would you go about it?



I have one; By Force !!!


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> What would any of you suggest would be the right way to reassert Jewish rights to the Temple Mount?  How would you go about it?



I wanted to ask You the same exact question.
it's too overwhelming to even start addressing the issue.

I'd at least start with banning all Muslim soccer matches in the most sacred location on earth,
and ban any (unauthorized) tool that is harder than a brush to enter the outer 200m radius of the ancient city gates.
Second establish an official body of open discussion between respectable and authoritative Islam scholars and the Rabbinate.


----------



## MJB12741

rylah said:


> *Don't say Temple Mount!*
> 
> 
> A Christian group visits the Temple Mount,
> the tour guide explaining some history to his group, is interupted by the Muslim Waqf and instructed: This is Al Aqsa mosque, DON'T SAY TEMPLE MOUNT! Has it really come to this? On the Temple Mount you can't say the words Temple Mount for fear of being stopped and ejected by the Muslim Waqf! Are all non-Muslims to be dhimmis here?



The nerve of those Zionists building their wailing wall around the Al Aqsa mosque.  And if you don't believe it just ask any of the Pali supporters here.


----------



## rylah

MJB12741 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Don't say Temple Mount!*
> 
> 
> A Christian group visits the Temple Mount,
> the tour guide explaining some history to his group, is interupted by the Muslim Waqf and instructed: This is Al Aqsa mosque, DON'T SAY TEMPLE MOUNT! Has it really come to this? On the Temple Mount you can't say the words Temple Mount for fear of being stopped and ejected by the Muslim Waqf! Are all non-Muslims to be dhimmis here?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nerve of those Zionists building their wailing wall around the Al Aqsa mosque.  And if you don't believe it just ask any of the Pali supporters here.
Click to expand...


Hard to laugh about it.
This year we've sat on the floor around a very old and wise Rabbi on the day of Jerusalem destruction, I can't describe the sorrow we heard when he reached the graphic description of what our sages were going through for merely studying the Torah in the land.
We're talking about people who live in 2 hour drive away from Jerusalem,still weeping each year over its' destruction.

Besi'at ha d'shm'ayah
it will be built, have no doubt.


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> What would any of you suggest would be the right way to reassert Jewish rights to the Temple Mount?  How would you go about it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to ask You the same exact question.
> it's too overwhelming to even start addressing the issue.
> 
> I'd at least start with banning all Muslim soccer matches in the most sacred location on earth,
> and ban any (unauthorized) tool that is harder than a brush to enter the outer 200m radius of the ancient city gates.
> Second establish an official body of open discussion between respectable and authoritative Islam scholars and the Rabbinate.
Click to expand...


Yes.  As I said, I don't think its quite time yet.  And one of the reasons why its not quite time yet, is because once Israel starts down that path, imo, they have to really commit to it.  Not something you want to go back on once you've started.  

First, I think Israel should declare her intent, preferably at an international venue, possibly, but not necessarily, the UN.  The declaration should not be political, but humanitarian in nature and should center around both the right of people to access their own holy spaces and on Article 9 of the Jordan/Israeli peace agreement (which the current status quo violates).

At the same time Israel's Rabbinate dialogues with Islam scholars, as you suggested.  And hopefully come to a consensus on sharing the space.  And hopefully with the assistance/agreement of the Jordanian government.  

Then I would like to see a joint peace-keeping force on the Temple Mount which removes ANYONE, of any religious faith, whose behaviour is incompatible with mutual, respectful enjoyment of a sacred space.  Those people should receive a significantly lengthy ban from the place.  Its not so much changing the status quo as it is enforcing the status quo equally.


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> What would any of you suggest would be the right way to reassert Jewish rights to the Temple Mount?  How would you go about it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to ask You the same exact question.
> it's too overwhelming to even start addressing the issue.
> 
> I'd at least start with banning all Muslim soccer matches in the most sacred location on earth,
> and ban any (unauthorized) tool that is harder than a brush to enter the outer 200m radius of the ancient city gates.
> Second establish an official body of open discussion between respectable and authoritative Islam scholars and the Rabbinate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes.  As I said, I don't think its quite time yet.  And one of the reasons why its not quite time yet, is because once Israel starts down that path, imo, they have to really commit to it.  Not something you want to go back on once you've started.
> 
> First, I think Israel should declare her intent, preferably at an international venue, possibly, but not necessarily, the UN.  The declaration should not be political, but humanitarian in nature and should center around both the right of people to access their own holy spaces and on Article 9 of the Jordan/Israeli peace agreement (which the current status quo violates).
> 
> At the same time Israel's Rabbinate dialogues with Islam scholars, as you suggested.  And hopefully come to a consensus on sharing the space.  And hopefully with the assistance/agreement of the Jordanian government.
> 
> Then I would like to see a joint peace-keeping force on the Temple Mount which removes ANYONE, of any religious faith, whose behaviour is incompatible with mutual, respectful enjoyment of a sacred space.  Those people should receive a significantly lengthy ban from the place.  Its not so much changing the status quo as it is enforcing the status quo equally.
Click to expand...


Listen I've already said that I'm extremely biased regarding Jerusalem, I weep over those stones each time I come to the site. All I can suggest is what most would consider as quacudoodle madness, and I've previously mentioned some of those concepts here...

I agree with Your 1st paragraph, this kind of interaction develops on longer terms than democratic elections.

Disagree with the 2nd paragraph, the issue is religious and local, Jordan should be viewed as a single player of the Sunnis, the Waqf has to be approached from the view point of an (intl.) Arab representative body. Things have to be allowed to be called by their name straightforward to have any chance of a constructive dialogue. International forums are not required when the forum is open to public view and publication.

Agree with the 3rd part
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's one quaudoodle idea - each time the Murabateen  scream takbir on the Temple Mount, Jews should answer with a strong "AMEN!".
Then we can start the dialogue...it will come from the Muslim side.


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> What would any of you suggest would be the right way to reassert Jewish rights to the Temple Mount?  How would you go about it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to ask You the same exact question.
> it's too overwhelming to even start addressing the issue.
> 
> I'd at least start with banning all Muslim soccer matches in the most sacred location on earth,
> and ban any (unauthorized) tool that is harder than a brush to enter the outer 200m radius of the ancient city gates.
> Second establish an official body of open discussion between respectable and authoritative Islam scholars and the Rabbinate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes.  As I said, I don't think its quite time yet.  And one of the reasons why its not quite time yet, is because once Israel starts down that path, imo, they have to really commit to it.  Not something you want to go back on once you've started.
> 
> First, I think Israel should declare her intent, preferably at an international venue, possibly, but not necessarily, the UN.  The declaration should not be political, but humanitarian in nature and should center around both the right of people to access their own holy spaces and on Article 9 of the Jordan/Israeli peace agreement (which the current status quo violates).
> 
> At the same time Israel's Rabbinate dialogues with Islam scholars, as you suggested.  And hopefully come to a consensus on sharing the space.  And hopefully with the assistance/agreement of the Jordanian government.
> 
> Then I would like to see a joint peace-keeping force on the Temple Mount which removes ANYONE, of any religious faith, whose behaviour is incompatible with mutual, respectful enjoyment of a sacred space.  Those people should receive a significantly lengthy ban from the place.  Its not so much changing the status quo as it is enforcing the status quo equally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Listen I've already said that I'm extremely biased regarding Jerusalem, I weep over those stones each time I come to the site. All I can suggest is what most would consider as quacudoodle madness, and I've previously mentioned some of those concepts here...
> 
> I agree with Your 1st paragraph, this kind of interaction develops on longer terms than democratic elections.
> 
> Disagree with the 2nd paragraph, the issue is religious and local, Jordan should be viewed as a single player of the Sunnis, the Waqf has to be approached from the view point of an (intl.) Arab representative body. Things have to be allowed to be called by their name straightforward to have any chance of a constructive dialogue. International forums are not required when the forum is open to public view and publication.
> 
> Agree with the 3rd part
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Here's one quaudoodle idea - each time the Murabateen  scream takbir on the Temple Mount, Jews should answer with a strong "AMEN!".
> Then we can start the dialogue...it will come from the Muslim side.
Click to expand...



I'm not sure we could (or should) keep Jordan out of the picture, given their recognized "special status" in a shared peace treaty that we want to honor, yes?  

And I disagree that it will come from the Muslim side.  I mean I agree that peace can not be enforced, so eventually, one hopes.  BUT in the meantime, we assert our rights unilaterally, yes?


----------



## Mindful

Know your history.

38 years before the so called 'occupation' of anywhere.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

My naked eye test tells me that Jews are a lot friendlier than Muslims. I support Jews.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The [PA] Islamic-Christian Council for Jerusalem and the Holy Places said that the fact that the Israeli occupation authorities closed the Ibrahimi Mosque and prevented the Muslims from entering under the pretext of the Jewish holidays constitutes a severe crime against the holy sites and places of worship, and particularly this mosque that constitutes a purely Islamic site…

(full article online)

Fatah and PA officials: Cave of the Patriarchs “is a purely Islamic mosque where the Jews have no right” - Jewish history in Land of Israel erased | PMW


----------



## Shusha

I've said it before, I'll keep saying it.  The above is why the Jewish people absolutely MUST, in any peace treaty, retain all of the Jewish Holy Places on Israel's sovereign soil.  That includes the Temple Mount, all of the Old City, the surrounding area East Jerusalem and all of Hebron.

The hypocrisy would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.  And the deliberate erasure of Jewish history is one of the most abhorrent things I can think of.


----------



## Shusha

UN speech today by King Abdullah of Jordan.

_We will counter any attempts to change the holy city’s historic Arab, Christian and Muslim identity

_
2/3 of the way there.  Maybe next year he'll get it right.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Last week the Palestinian site Amad had an entire article by Bakr Abu Bakr claiming that the Land of Israel was never in what became known as Palestine.

The article says that  "there is no connection between the myths and legends of the Torah - written hundreds of years ago - and the names of cities, villages, valleys and mountains in Palestine."

He says that Israeli archaeologists like Israel Finkelstein and Ze'ev Herzog show that there was no Jewish nation. Of course, they make no such claims - they just say that the Biblical accounts of the nation are not accurate, but they do not deny the existence of the kingdoms of Judah and Israel.

Abu Bakr further pushes the absurd theory that all Biblical events occurred in Yemen, not Israel, quoting several Arab "scientists."

Of course, Abu Bakr also claims that today's Jews have nothing to do with the Jews of history and are Khazars. Besides being debunked by history and genetics, this doesn't explain Jews who lived in Arab lands, but no matter.

The Arab denial of basic history and science is not a small thing. They know that they are not the indigenous people of the land, and Jews are the only people in existence today who can make that claim. The fundamental basis of the people claiming Arabs are indigenous - and building their arguments by comparing them to First Peoples worldwide - is completely opposite the truth, and Zionism is not only not colonialist but is a movement for the indigenous people to reclaim their  lands.

(full article online)

Archaeology be damned! Arabs continue to deny any Jewish connection to the land ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PX Commission of the Executive Board of UNESCO on Wednesday morning adopted resolutions 28 and 29, titled "Occupied Palestine," which state that the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron and Rachel’s Tomb in Bethlehem are "an integral part of the Occupied Palestinian territory" and condemning the construction of the security fence and "other measures aimed at altering the character, status and demographic composition of the Occupied Palestinian territory."

Both resolutions were sponsored by Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Oman, Qatar and Sudan, and were approved within minutes at the commission’s meeting, which includes the 59 members of UNESCO’s Executive Committee. Israel is not a member of the Executive Committee.

(full article online)

UNESCO: Rachel's Tomb and Cave of Patriarchs part of 'Occupied Palestine'


----------



## Sixties Fan

If you worry that people might look at history and see that Jews are indigenous to Israel, flipping the script of who is a colonialist and who is native, we have "scholars" who are ready to say that the ancient Israelites were also settler colonialists:
---

The same author seems a little obsessed with looking at Jews, and only Jews, in settler colonialist terms. He has also written
---------
A quick look at indexes of scholarly literature does not find any articles on Arab colonialism in the Middle East.

Think about that.

(full article online)

Crazy academic paper of the day: "Ancient Israel and settler colonialism" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> I've said it before, I'll keep saying it.  The above is why the Jewish people absolutely MUST, in any peace treaty, retain all of the Jewish Holy Places on Israel's sovereign soil.  That includes the Temple Mount, all of the Old City, the surrounding area East Jerusalem and all of Hebron.
> 
> The hypocrisy would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.  And the deliberate erasure of Jewish history is one of the most abhorrent things I can think of.



Abbas is calling on ALL of E. Jerusalen which of course includes the Holy Sites. The PLO already stated Jews have no right to the Western Wall. That says it all


----------



## danielpalos

Sixties Fan said:


> Last week the Palestinian site Amad had an entire article by Bakr Abu Bakr claiming that the Land of Israel was never in what became known as Palestine.
> 
> The article says that  "there is no connection between the myths and legends of the Torah - written hundreds of years ago - and the names of cities, villages, valleys and mountains in Palestine."
> 
> He says that Israeli archaeologists like Israel Finkelstein and Ze'ev Herzog show that there was no Jewish nation. Of course, they make no such claims - they just say that the Biblical accounts of the nation are not accurate, but they do not deny the existence of the kingdoms of Judah and Israel.
> 
> Abu Bakr further pushes the absurd theory that all Biblical events occurred in Yemen, not Israel, quoting several Arab "scientists."
> 
> Of course, Abu Bakr also claims that today's Jews have nothing to do with the Jews of history and are Khazars. Besides being debunked by history and genetics, this doesn't explain Jews who lived in Arab lands, but no matter.
> 
> The Arab denial of basic history and science is not a small thing. They know that they are not the indigenous people of the land, and Jews are the only people in existence today who can make that claim. The fundamental basis of the people claiming Arabs are indigenous - and building their arguments by comparing them to First Peoples worldwide - is completely opposite the truth, and Zionism is not only not colonialist but is a movement for the indigenous people to reclaim their  lands.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Archaeology be damned! Arabs continue to deny any Jewish connection to the land ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Only a State of Israel exists not a State of Judea for Judeans.


----------



## Sixties Fan

danielpalos said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last week the Palestinian site Amad had an entire article by Bakr Abu Bakr claiming that the Land of Israel was never in what became known as Palestine.
> 
> The article says that  "there is no connection between the myths and legends of the Torah - written hundreds of years ago - and the names of cities, villages, valleys and mountains in Palestine."
> 
> He says that Israeli archaeologists like Israel Finkelstein and Ze'ev Herzog show that there was no Jewish nation. Of course, they make no such claims - they just say that the Biblical accounts of the nation are not accurate, but they do not deny the existence of the kingdoms of Judah and Israel.
> 
> Abu Bakr further pushes the absurd theory that all Biblical events occurred in Yemen, not Israel, quoting several Arab "scientists."
> 
> Of course, Abu Bakr also claims that today's Jews have nothing to do with the Jews of history and are Khazars. Besides being debunked by history and genetics, this doesn't explain Jews who lived in Arab lands, but no matter.
> 
> The Arab denial of basic history and science is not a small thing. They know that they are not the indigenous people of the land, and Jews are the only people in existence today who can make that claim. The fundamental basis of the people claiming Arabs are indigenous - and building their arguments by comparing them to First Peoples worldwide - is completely opposite the truth, and Zionism is not only not colonialist but is a movement for the indigenous people to reclaim their  lands.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Archaeology be damned! Arabs continue to deny any Jewish connection to the land ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Only a State of Israel exists not a State of Judea for Judeans.
Click to expand...

My, my , my, once a loser, you remain a loser.

It does not matter if it is called Israel, as it was, or Judea, as it was.

It is OUR homeland.  Period.

Now, go deny and attempt to destroy some other people's history and see what happens to you.


----------



## danielpalos

Sixties Fan said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last week the Palestinian site Amad had an entire article by Bakr Abu Bakr claiming that the Land of Israel was never in what became known as Palestine.
> 
> The article says that  "there is no connection between the myths and legends of the Torah - written hundreds of years ago - and the names of cities, villages, valleys and mountains in Palestine."
> 
> He says that Israeli archaeologists like Israel Finkelstein and Ze'ev Herzog show that there was no Jewish nation. Of course, they make no such claims - they just say that the Biblical accounts of the nation are not accurate, but they do not deny the existence of the kingdoms of Judah and Israel.
> 
> Abu Bakr further pushes the absurd theory that all Biblical events occurred in Yemen, not Israel, quoting several Arab "scientists."
> 
> Of course, Abu Bakr also claims that today's Jews have nothing to do with the Jews of history and are Khazars. Besides being debunked by history and genetics, this doesn't explain Jews who lived in Arab lands, but no matter.
> 
> The Arab denial of basic history and science is not a small thing. They know that they are not the indigenous people of the land, and Jews are the only people in existence today who can make that claim. The fundamental basis of the people claiming Arabs are indigenous - and building their arguments by comparing them to First Peoples worldwide - is completely opposite the truth, and Zionism is not only not colonialist but is a movement for the indigenous people to reclaim their  lands.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Archaeology be damned! Arabs continue to deny any Jewish connection to the land ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Only a State of Israel exists not a State of Judea for Judeans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My, my , my, once a loser, you remain a loser.
> 
> It does not matter if it is called Israel, as it was, or Judea, as it was.
> 
> It is OUR homeland.  Period.
> 
> Now, go deny and attempt to destroy some other people's history and see what happens to you.
Click to expand...

Are Judeans the chosen ones or Israelis?


----------



## Shusha

danielpalos said:


> Are Judeans the chosen ones or Israelis?



The fact that you have to create a false and artificial separation of the Jewish people into "real" and "not real" is just another tired and ugly variation on the same old same old.

Here's an idea.  Why don't we create some weird and arbitrary separation of Arabs into oh, I don't know, Ibis and Obis?  Ibis have certain rights.  Obis have no rights.


----------



## danielpalos

Shusha said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are Judeans the chosen ones or Israelis?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you have to create a false and artificial separation of the Jewish people into "real" and "not real" is just another tired and ugly variation on the same old same old.
> 
> Here's an idea.  Why don't we create some weird and arbitrary separation of Arabs into oh, I don't know, Ibis and Obis?  Ibis have certain rights.  Obis have no rights.
Click to expand...

Are Judeans from Judea or Israel?


----------



## Shusha

danielpalos said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are Judeans the chosen ones or Israelis?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you have to create a false and artificial separation of the Jewish people into "real" and "not real" is just another tired and ugly variation on the same old same old.
> 
> Here's an idea.  Why don't we create some weird and arbitrary separation of Arabs into oh, I don't know, Ibis and Obis?  Ibis have certain rights.  Obis have no rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are Judeans from Judea or Israel?
Click to expand...


Are Ibis from Palestine?  Where are Obis from?

You are creating an artificial distinction.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

danielpalos said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last week the Palestinian site Amad had an entire article by Bakr Abu Bakr claiming that the Land of Israel was never in what became known as Palestine.
> 
> The article says that  "there is no connection between the myths and legends of the Torah - written hundreds of years ago - and the names of cities, villages, valleys and mountains in Palestine."
> 
> He says that Israeli archaeologists like Israel Finkelstein and Ze'ev Herzog show that there was no Jewish nation. Of course, they make no such claims - they just say that the Biblical accounts of the nation are not accurate, but they do not deny the existence of the kingdoms of Judah and Israel.
> 
> Abu Bakr further pushes the absurd theory that all Biblical events occurred in Yemen, not Israel, quoting several Arab "scientists."
> 
> Of course, Abu Bakr also claims that today's Jews have nothing to do with the Jews of history and are Khazars. Besides being debunked by history and genetics, this doesn't explain Jews who lived in Arab lands, but no matter.
> 
> The Arab denial of basic history and science is not a small thing. They know that they are not the indigenous people of the land, and Jews are the only people in existence today who can make that claim. The fundamental basis of the people claiming Arabs are indigenous - and building their arguments by comparing them to First Peoples worldwide - is completely opposite the truth, and Zionism is not only not colonialist but is a movement for the indigenous people to reclaim their  lands.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Archaeology be damned! Arabs continue to deny any Jewish connection to the land ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Only a State of Israel exists not a State of Judea for Judeans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My, my , my, once a loser, you remain a loser.
> 
> It does not matter if it is called Israel, as it was, or Judea, as it was.
> 
> It is OUR homeland.  Period.
> 
> Now, go deny and attempt to destroy some other people's history and see what happens to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are Judeans the chosen ones or Israelis?
Click to expand...


We are; Unlike you.


----------



## danielpalos

Shusha said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are Judeans the chosen ones or Israelis?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you have to create a false and artificial separation of the Jewish people into "real" and "not real" is just another tired and ugly variation on the same old same old.
> 
> Here's an idea.  Why don't we create some weird and arbitrary separation of Arabs into oh, I don't know, Ibis and Obis?  Ibis have certain rights.  Obis have no rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are Judeans from Judea or Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are Ibis from Palestine?  Where are Obis from?
> 
> You are creating an artificial distinction.
Click to expand...

Judeans came from Judea, not Israel.


----------



## danielpalos

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last week the Palestinian site Amad had an entire article by Bakr Abu Bakr claiming that the Land of Israel was never in what became known as Palestine.
> 
> The article says that  "there is no connection between the myths and legends of the Torah - written hundreds of years ago - and the names of cities, villages, valleys and mountains in Palestine."
> 
> He says that Israeli archaeologists like Israel Finkelstein and Ze'ev Herzog show that there was no Jewish nation. Of course, they make no such claims - they just say that the Biblical accounts of the nation are not accurate, but they do not deny the existence of the kingdoms of Judah and Israel.
> 
> Abu Bakr further pushes the absurd theory that all Biblical events occurred in Yemen, not Israel, quoting several Arab "scientists."
> 
> Of course, Abu Bakr also claims that today's Jews have nothing to do with the Jews of history and are Khazars. Besides being debunked by history and genetics, this doesn't explain Jews who lived in Arab lands, but no matter.
> 
> The Arab denial of basic history and science is not a small thing. They know that they are not the indigenous people of the land, and Jews are the only people in existence today who can make that claim. The fundamental basis of the people claiming Arabs are indigenous - and building their arguments by comparing them to First Peoples worldwide - is completely opposite the truth, and Zionism is not only not colonialist but is a movement for the indigenous people to reclaim their  lands.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Archaeology be damned! Arabs continue to deny any Jewish connection to the land ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Only a State of Israel exists not a State of Judea for Judeans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My, my , my, once a loser, you remain a loser.
> 
> It does not matter if it is called Israel, as it was, or Judea, as it was.
> 
> It is OUR homeland.  Period.
> 
> Now, go deny and attempt to destroy some other people's history and see what happens to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are Judeans the chosen ones or Israelis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We are; Unlike you.
Click to expand...

i resort to the fewest fallacies for the sake of sublime Truth (value) discoverable through argumentation.

One thousand men can do what You do.


----------



## rylah

danielpalos said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are Judeans the chosen ones or Israelis?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you have to create a false and artificial separation of the Jewish people into "real" and "not real" is just another tired and ugly variation on the same old same old.
> 
> Here's an idea.  Why don't we create some weird and arbitrary separation of Arabs into oh, I don't know, Ibis and Obis?  Ibis have certain rights.  Obis have no rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are Judeans from Judea or Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are Ibis from Palestine?  Where are Obis from?
> 
> You are creating an artificial distinction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Judeans came from Judea, not Israel.
Click to expand...



As the rest of Israelite tribes, Judeans are descendants of one of the 12 sons of Israel our father pbuh.


----------



## danielpalos

the perception is, Israelis are in Israel, and Judeans are everywhere else.


----------



## rylah

*Arabs shattered an ancient Jewish village*
Antiquities pirates were caught on fire when they smashed an ancient Jewish village with a bulldozer. "The sights are shocking."

At the end of last week, inspectors from the Antiquities Authority's antiquities robbery unit and Border Police volunteers seized two Arab antiquities robbers, breaking and smashing with the help of an antiquities site bulldozer identified in the study with the biblical Dovrat.

A few days prior to the incident, IAA inspectors located a damage that was carried out at the site, and since then it has been under constant surveillance. At the end of the week the suspects returned to the site with a backhoe and began to carry out a destructive work in search of antiquities.






(Nir Distfeldd, the unit's supervisor, near the ruins)

During the search, they uncovered and shattered underground cavities and uprooted masonry stones that were part of the remains of a 2,000-year-old settlement. A fragment of basalt millstones that used to grind flour in antiquity and potsherds from the Hellenistic period was found in the debris of the destruction.





(Millstone used for grinding bread. Photo: Israel Antiquities Authority)


----------



## danielpalos

Judea doesn't exist; it must have been an ancient Israeli village.


----------



## Sixties Fan

danielpalos said:


> Judea doesn't exist; it must have been an ancient Israeli village.


Oh, lordy, lord, lord.....you attempt to pass your vile destruction of Hebrew, Israelite, Jewish history to fulfill some disgusting Christian or otherwise sick ideology where Jews cannot have rights over their ancient homelands, they must remain second citizens to "Masters" like yourself.

Sorry.  You do NOT get to destroy anything, one way or another .
The only thing self destructing before our eyes is your mind.


----------



## rylah

danielpalos said:


> Judea doesn't exist; it must have been an ancient Israeli village.


 
Not a village but a tribe, the ruling one.
Jerusalem is its capital and the capital of all Jews,
heard about that place?


----------



## Sixties Fan

rylah said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Judea doesn't exist; it must have been an ancient Israeli village.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not a village but a tribe, the ruling one.
> Jerusalem is its capital and the capital of all Jews,
> heard about that place?
Click to expand...

Of course he has. He is just pulling our leg.
He loves to play.....Let me destroy your heritage.....because "I can".

He, he, he


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Those who create nothing, steal everything...]

One of the more flavorful accusations against Israel by the Palestinian Authority is that Israel has "stolen the falafel and the hummus." This "theft," according to official PA TV, is part of a "brutal attack" against the entire "Palestinian heritage": 















*Official PA TV reporter:* "We are talking about a brutal attack against the Palestinian heritage in general, including Palestinian foods. There has been theft of the Palestinian falafel, the Palestinian hummus, and some popular foods by the occupation. Holding [food] festivals like these is essential in order to preserve the heritage and also the Palestinian foods."
[Official PA TV, _Palestine This Morning_, Oct. 3, 2018]

This particular accusation is part of the overall PA lie that there is no Jewish historyanywhere in the Land of Israel in general and in Jerusalem in particular. The PA falsely claims that everything in the land testifies to a "Palestinian history," and to justify this goes to great lengths to falsify such a Palestinian history. The accusation that Israel has "stolen" the falafel and the hummus, which is Middle Eastern in its origin, is part of the PA's denial of the existence of anything that can be associated with Jewish or Israeli history, and at the same time presenting everything as part of "Palestinian history."

(full article online)

PA TV: Israel stole the Palestinian falafel and hummus along with the rest of the Palestinian heritage - PMW Bulletins


----------



## danielpalos

Sixties Fan said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Judea doesn't exist; it must have been an ancient Israeli village.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, lordy, lord, lord.....you attempt to pass your vile destruction of Hebrew, Israelite, Jewish history to fulfill some disgusting Christian or otherwise sick ideology where Jews cannot have rights over their ancient homelands, they must remain second citizens to "Masters" like yourself.
> 
> Sorry.  You do NOT get to destroy anything, one way or another .
> The only thing self destructing before our eyes is your mind.
Click to expand...

Jews?  Where are the Jews; only Israel exists.


----------



## Sixties Fan

danielpalos said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Judea doesn't exist; it must have been an ancient Israeli village.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, lordy, lord, lord.....you attempt to pass your vile destruction of Hebrew, Israelite, Jewish history to fulfill some disgusting Christian or otherwise sick ideology where Jews cannot have rights over their ancient homelands, they must remain second citizens to "Masters" like yourself.
> 
> Sorry.  You do NOT get to destroy anything, one way or another .
> The only thing self destructing before our eyes is your mind.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews?  Where are the Jews; only Israel exists.
Click to expand...

Do not forget your meds, dearest.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

danielpalos said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Judea doesn't exist; it must have been an ancient Israeli village.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, lordy, lord, lord.....you attempt to pass your vile destruction of Hebrew, Israelite, Jewish history to fulfill some disgusting Christian or otherwise sick ideology where Jews cannot have rights over their ancient homelands, they must remain second citizens to "Masters" like yourself.
> 
> Sorry.  You do NOT get to destroy anything, one way or another .
> The only thing self destructing before our eyes is your mind.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews?  Where are the Jews; only Israel exists.[/QUOTE
> I see we have another Crackpot on the board
Click to expand...


----------



## danielpalos

Sixties Fan said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Judea doesn't exist; it must have been an ancient Israeli village.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, lordy, lord, lord.....you attempt to pass your vile destruction of Hebrew, Israelite, Jewish history to fulfill some disgusting Christian or otherwise sick ideology where Jews cannot have rights over their ancient homelands, they must remain second citizens to "Masters" like yourself.
> 
> Sorry.  You do NOT get to destroy anything, one way or another .
> The only thing self destructing before our eyes is your mind.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews?  Where are the Jews; only Israel exists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do not forget your meds, dearest.
Click to expand...

I am bearing the Truest Witness with the fewest fallacies.  Where is Judea?


----------



## danielpalos

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Judea doesn't exist; it must have been an ancient Israeli village.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, lordy, lord, lord.....you attempt to pass your vile destruction of Hebrew, Israelite, Jewish history to fulfill some disgusting Christian or otherwise sick ideology where Jews cannot have rights over their ancient homelands, they must remain second citizens to "Masters" like yourself.
> 
> Sorry.  You do NOT get to destroy anything, one way or another .
> The only thing self destructing before our eyes is your mind.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews?  Where are the Jews; only Israel exists.[/QUOTE
> I see we have another Crackpot on the board
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I am not the one "bearing false witness".


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Sixties Fan said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Judea doesn't exist; it must have been an ancient Israeli village.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, lordy, lord, lord.....you attempt to pass your vile destruction of Hebrew, Israelite, Jewish history to fulfill some disgusting Christian or otherwise sick ideology where Jews cannot have rights over their ancient homelands, they must remain second citizens to "Masters" like yourself.
> 
> Sorry.  You do NOT get to destroy anything, one way or another .
> The only thing self destructing before our eyes is your mind.
Click to expand...


----------



## danielpalos

Judean history is historical; Israeli history is now.


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## Sixties Fan

danielpalos said:


> Judean history is historical; Israeli history is now.


----------



## danielpalos

Sixties Fan said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Judean history is historical; Israeli history is now.
Click to expand...

no State of Judea exists.


----------



## Sixties Fan

danielpalos said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Judean history is historical; Israeli history is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no State of Judea exists.
Click to expand...

Your State of Mind does exist, and it is not in good condition.  It is about to go bankrupt


----------



## Shusha

danielpalos said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Judean history is historical; Israeli history is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no State of Judea exists.
Click to expand...


So?  What would change if a State of Judea existed?


----------



## danielpalos

Sixties Fan said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Judean history is historical; Israeli history is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no State of Judea exists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your State of Mind does exist, and it is not in good condition.  It is about to go bankrupt
Click to expand...

i resort to the fewest fallacies, for a reason.


----------



## danielpalos

Shusha said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Judean history is historical; Israeli history is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no State of Judea exists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?  What would change if a State of Judea existed?
Click to expand...

it would be more "cognitively sonant"; A State of Judea would exist for Judeans, world wide.


----------



## Shusha

danielpalos said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Judean history is historical; Israeli history is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no State of Judea exists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?  What would change if a State of Judea existed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it would be more "cognitively sonant"; A State of Judea would exist for Judeans, world wide.
Click to expand...


How is a State of Judea DIFFERENT from the already existing State of Israel?


----------



## danielpalos

Shusha said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Judean history is historical; Israeli history is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no State of Judea exists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?  What would change if a State of Judea existed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it would be more "cognitively sonant"; A State of Judea would exist for Judeans, world wide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is a State of Judea DIFFERENT from the already existing State of Israel?
Click to expand...

apart from the true witness bearing?  

Let me put it, this way; 

Jews are from "Jewdea".  Israelis are from Israel.


----------



## rylah

danielpalos said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no State of Judea exists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?  What would change if a State of Judea existed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it would be more "cognitively sonant"; A State of Judea would exist for Judeans, world wide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is a State of Judea DIFFERENT from the already existing State of Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> apart from the true witness bearing?
> 
> Let me put it, this way;
> 
> Jews are from "Jewdea".  Israelis are from Israel.
Click to expand...

That damaged brain is in the skull,  nothing to do with Your head.


----------



## danielpalos

rylah said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> no State of Judea exists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So?  What would change if a State of Judea existed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it would be more "cognitively sonant"; A State of Judea would exist for Judeans, world wide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is a State of Judea DIFFERENT from the already existing State of Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> apart from the true witness bearing?
> 
> Let me put it, this way;
> 
> Jews are from "Jewdea".  Israelis are from Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That damaged brain is in the skull,  nothing to do with Your head.
Click to expand...

i resort to the fewest fallacies.


----------



## rylah

danielpalos said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> So?  What would change if a State of Judea existed?
> 
> 
> 
> it would be more "cognitively sonant"; A State of Judea would exist for Judeans, world wide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is a State of Judea DIFFERENT from the already existing State of Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> apart from the true witness bearing?
> 
> Let me put it, this way;
> 
> Jews are from "Jewdea".  Israelis are from Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That damaged brain is in the skull,  nothing to do with Your head.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i resort to the fewest fallacies.
Click to expand...

An I'm merely mirroring Your "logic".
Come back when You find the fewest connection between Your skull, head and brain.

Until then no-one is Your doctor.


----------



## Shusha

danielpalos said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no State of Judea exists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?  What would change if a State of Judea existed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it would be more "cognitively sonant"; A State of Judea would exist for Judeans, world wide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is a State of Judea DIFFERENT from the already existing State of Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> apart from the true witness bearing?
> 
> Let me put it, this way;
> 
> Jews are from "Jewdea".  Israelis are from Israel.
Click to expand...


So if the Jewish people had named their State Judea, instead of Israel you wouldn't have any problem with any of this.


----------



## danielpalos

rylah said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> it would be more "cognitively sonant"; A State of Judea would exist for Judeans, world wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How is a State of Judea DIFFERENT from the already existing State of Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> apart from the true witness bearing?
> 
> Let me put it, this way;
> 
> Jews are from "Jewdea".  Israelis are from Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That damaged brain is in the skull,  nothing to do with Your head.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i resort to the fewest fallacies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An I'm merely mirroring Your "logic".
> Come back when You find the fewest connection between Your skull, head and brain.
> 
> Until then no-one is Your doctor.
Click to expand...

What fallacy is that?  Ju's are from Ju'dea.


----------



## Picaro

Judah was part of a 'dual Monarchy'. There is no 'dual monarchy' in Israeli politics any more, it's all one state. Creating another one is just silly and serves no purpose. ISrael already has problems with secessionists, like the suicidal 'Peace Left', and the lunatic Chasidics and many of the 'settler' movement psychos; they need yet more social and political division like they need holes in their heads.


----------



## danielpalos

Picaro said:


> Judah was part of a 'dual Monarchy'. There is no 'dual monarchy' in Israeli politics any more, it's all one state. Creating another one is just silly and serves no purpose. ISrael already has problems with secessionists, like the suicidal 'Peace Left', and the lunatic Chasidics and many of the 'settler' movement psychos; they need yet more social and political division like they need holes in their heads.


Israelis get to end Judean history?  No more Judea, or Judeans or Ju's from dea or Jews.


----------



## danielpalos

Israelis the world over.


----------



## Sixties Fan

danielpalos said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Judah was part of a 'dual Monarchy'. There is no 'dual monarchy' in Israeli politics any more, it's all one state. Creating another one is just silly and serves no purpose. ISrael already has problems with secessionists, like the suicidal 'Peace Left', and the lunatic Chasidics and many of the 'settler' movement psychos; they need yet more social and political division like they need holes in their heads.
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis get to end Judean history?  No more Judea, or Judeans or Ju's from dea or Jews.
Click to expand...

Nice example of how sick your mind is.
Change history.  Rewrite who the Jews are.  Help put an end to them.

This thread was started exactly because of the CRASS mind of the likes of you.


----------



## danielpalos

Sixties Fan said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Judah was part of a 'dual Monarchy'. There is no 'dual monarchy' in Israeli politics any more, it's all one state. Creating another one is just silly and serves no purpose. ISrael already has problems with secessionists, like the suicidal 'Peace Left', and the lunatic Chasidics and many of the 'settler' movement psychos; they need yet more social and political division like they need holes in their heads.
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis get to end Judean history?  No more Judea, or Judeans or Ju's from dea or Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice example of how sick your mind is.
> Change history.  Rewrite who the Jews are.  Help put an end to them.
> 
> This thread was started exactly because of the CRASS mind of the likes of you.
Click to expand...

Sorry, only True Judeans can, "get my goat" in that regard.


----------



## Sixties Fan

If that wasn't bad enough, afterwards he revealed how truly antisemitic he is:

 Following Prof. Falk’s formal remarks, a questioner asked if in the case of Israel “apartheid” would be the correct term to apply, since the Jewish population of Israel it itself multi-ethnic and multi-racial, comprising not only Ashkenazic Jews from Northern and Eastern Europe, but Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews from the Mediterranean and Muslim lands, as well as Ethiopian and Indian Jews. Falk responded that Israeli law treats all these Jews the same, entitling them to the same rights and privileges that are denied to Palestinians, such as the sacred “right of return” to Israel by Jews, most of whose ancestors never inhabited Biblical Israel. “The whole rationale of Israel is to be a Jewish state, and they don’t fragment their own identity.”


Falk, by saying that most Jews do not descend from the Jews of the Bible, is apparently a  believer of the discredited and ludicrous Khazar myth - the myth that is so convenient for other antisemites to delegitimize the right of Jews to define themselves as a people.

(full article online)

Richard Falk apparently believes the Khazar myth ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## danielpalos

Why not Choose the Jews, they should be Chosen for a "mission of Peace" in the Middle East.


----------



## Sixties Fan

danielpalos said:


> Why not Choose the Jews, they should be Chosen for a "mission of Peace" in the Middle East.


Another mindless post from someone mindless.


----------



## danielpalos

Peace in the Middle East is not mindless.  It promotes the general welfare.


----------



## Shusha

Yet another person with the vile ideology that there are "true" Jews and "false" Jews.  It gives them the justification to harm Jews in word or deed while pretending they are not harming Jews.


----------



## danielpalos

Shusha said:


> Yet another person with the vile ideology that there are "true" Jews and "false" Jews.  It gives them the justification to harm Jews in word or deed while pretending they are not harming Jews.


Jews...where are the Jews?  Only Israel exists not Judea.


----------



## Shusha

danielpalos said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yet another person with the vile ideology that there are "true" Jews and "false" Jews.  It gives them the justification to harm Jews in word or deed while pretending they are not harming Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> Jews...where are the Jews?  Only Israel exists not Judea.
Click to expand...



Erase Jews altogether then, shall we?  That's an even more vile ideology.


----------



## danielpalos

Shusha said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yet another person with the vile ideology that there are "true" Jews and "false" Jews.  It gives them the justification to harm Jews in word or deed while pretending they are not harming Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> Jews...where are the Jews?  Only Israel exists not Judea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Erase Jews altogether then, shall we?  That's an even more vile ideology.
Click to expand...

Why?  We have Israel and Israelis; who needs Judeans.


----------



## Picaro

danielpalos said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yet another person with the vile ideology that there are "true" Jews and "false" Jews.  It gives them the justification to harm Jews in word or deed while pretending they are not harming Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> Jews...where are the Jews?  Only Israel exists not Judea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Erase Jews altogether then, shall we?  That's an even more vile ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why?  We have Israel and Israelis; who needs Judeans.
Click to expand...


Try to avoid drinking while posting. You make no sense at all.


----------



## danielpalos

Picaro said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yet another person with the vile ideology that there are "true" Jews and "false" Jews.  It gives them the justification to harm Jews in word or deed while pretending they are not harming Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> Jews...where are the Jews?  Only Israel exists not Judea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Erase Jews altogether then, shall we?  That's an even more vile ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why?  We have Israel and Israelis; who needs Judeans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Try to avoid drinking while posting. You make no sense at all.
Click to expand...

lol.  Where is this imaginary State of Judea?


----------



## Picaro

danielpalos said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yet another person with the vile ideology that there are "true" Jews and "false" Jews.  It gives them the justification to harm Jews in word or deed while pretending they are not harming Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> Jews...where are the Jews?  Only Israel exists not Judea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Erase Jews altogether then, shall we?  That's an even more vile ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why?  We have Israel and Israelis; who needs Judeans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Try to avoid drinking while posting. You make no sense at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol.  Where is this imaginary State of Judea?
Click to expand...


See my last post to you.


----------



## Issa

MJB12741 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now that Jerusalem is off the table for negotiations, the Palestinians have a golden opportunity to now seek peace with Israel before they lose even more.
Click to expand...

Never over it is a holy place for Muslims.
I have no problem with Judaism or Jews,  but Israel and Israelis yes I do. The Israelis could've been content with some of the land but lots of it. Kicking the Palestinians and installing settlers from around the world. 
I say give the land to it's original owners that are cramped still in refugee camps, Jews that have roots to the holy land can stay of course.....but again kr will not happen, and the issue will be solved by wars as it always did.


----------



## Picaro

Europeans made it impossible for the survivors to return to their homes , for whatever reasons, and the mythical 'Palestinians' leadership all worked for the Nazis, and 90% of their fellow Arabs supported them. No reason to care in the least what they liked or didn't like, they should have gone home to Syria if they didn't like the new order. The vermin then compounded the problem by expelling Jews from nearly all Arab countries. nobody owes Arabs a thing, least of all the West and Jews. There is no debatable issues here re Jewish settlement in Israel. The Arabs picked a side, and then lost. Tough shit.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Issa said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now that Jerusalem is off the table for negotiations, the Palestinians have a golden opportunity to now seek peace with Israel before they lose even more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never over it is a holy place for Muslims.
> I have no problem with Judaism or Jews,  but Israel and Israelis yes I do. The Israelis could've been content with some of the land but lots of it. Kicking the Palestinians and installing settlers from around the world.
> I say give the land to it's original owners that are cramped still in refugee camps, Jews that have roots to the holy land can stay of course.....but again kr will not happen, and the issue will be solved by wars as it always did.
Click to expand...

What you do not seem to be aware of is that Palestinian Arabs are Arabs from not only the Arab Peninsula, but Arabs who were living all around the world as well.

ALL of the Mandate for Palestine was to be returned to the Jewish people because it is their ancient homeland.

The British got greedy and gave 78% of it to one Arab tribe, the Hashemites, who turned the TransJordan area into Jordan.

Therefore for you to assume that the Jews were not content with some of the land, what was left of the Mandate, which after 1937 the British wanted to partition into two again, Jewish and Arab........that is a mistake you are making.

The Jews accepted both the partition of 1937 and the partition of 1947.  The Arab leaders did not.

The original owners of the Land?  The Jewish people.

The Arab Muslims holy books totally acknowledge,  that when they got to the region called Palestine, the indigenous people, the Jews, were there.

Some of the Arabs are cramped in "refugee camps" because the Arab League, meaning the Arab leaders of each Arab country.......decided to leave them there, rather than have them become part of their countries, and much less create a Palestinian country......as long as Israel exists.

That is the history of the region.

Muslims cannot allow Jews, or Christians to be sovereign of any land they once conquered, and always saw the Jews as second hand citizens, people less human than they are.  Not all Muslims think that way, but most of their leaders have thought so.

THAT is the issue.

Muslims have been attempting to change the history of the area in order to destroy Israel and Jewish History altogether.

Do you agree with such actions?


----------



## danielpalos

Picaro said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews...where are the Jews?  Only Israel exists not Judea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Erase Jews altogether then, shall we?  That's an even more vile ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why?  We have Israel and Israelis; who needs Judeans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Try to avoid drinking while posting. You make no sense at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol.  Where is this imaginary State of Judea?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See my last post to you.
Click to expand...

Israel really really does exist, not Judea.


----------



## Mindful

danielpalos said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Erase Jews altogether then, shall we?  That's an even more vile ideology.
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  We have Israel and Israelis; who needs Judeans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Try to avoid drinking while posting. You make no sense at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol.  Where is this imaginary State of Judea?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See my last post to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel really really does exist, not Judea.
Click to expand...


Yawn.


----------



## danielpalos

Mindful said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  We have Israel and Israelis; who needs Judeans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try to avoid drinking while posting. You make no sense at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol.  Where is this imaginary State of Judea?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See my last post to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel really really does exist, not Judea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yawn.
Click to expand...

No State of Judea, no Ju's from Dea. 

That is ok.  Hebrews have their history in writing.  

Hebrew history will continue, like usual.


----------



## Mindful

danielpalos said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try to avoid drinking while posting. You make no sense at all.
> 
> 
> 
> lol.  Where is this imaginary State of Judea?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See my last post to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel really really does exist, not Judea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yawn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No State of Judea, no Ju's from Dea.
> 
> That is ok.  Hebrews have their history in writing.
> 
> Hebrew history will continue, like usual.
Click to expand...


What exactly are you talking about?


----------



## danielpalos

Mindful said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol.  Where is this imaginary State of Judea?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See my last post to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel really really does exist, not Judea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yawn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No State of Judea, no Ju's from Dea.
> 
> That is ok.  Hebrews have their history in writing.
> 
> Hebrew history will continue, like usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What exactly are you talking about?
Click to expand...

Jews....Where are the Jews?  Perhaps the Hebrews can tell us.


----------



## Sixties Fan

danielpalos said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> See my last post to you.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really really does exist, not Judea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yawn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No State of Judea, no Ju's from Dea.
> 
> That is ok.  Hebrews have their history in writing.
> 
> Hebrew history will continue, like usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What exactly are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews....Where are the Jews?  Perhaps the Hebrews can tell us.
Click to expand...

We are RIGHT HERE you insolent nobody, First class student of all the hatred for Jews as taught in the past 2000 years, after an ex Jew told the Biggest Lie Ever Told In History, which continues to consume empty brains like yours.


----------



## Mindful

danielpalos said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> See my last post to you.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really really does exist, not Judea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yawn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No State of Judea, no Ju's from Dea.
> 
> That is ok.  Hebrews have their history in writing.
> 
> Hebrew history will continue, like usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What exactly are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews....Where are the Jews?  Perhaps the Hebrews can tell us.
Click to expand...


And where are THEY?


----------



## rylah

*State of Judea*


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Judean history is historical; Israeli history is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no State of Judea exists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *State of Judea *
Click to expand...


You think he's seriously interested?


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Judean history is historical; Israeli history is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no State of Judea exists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *State of Judea *
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You think he's seriously interested?
Click to expand...


Don't know, but he's hackable.
I actually would LOVE to move to Judea.


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Judean history is historical; Israeli history is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no State of Judea exists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *State of Judea *
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You think he's seriously interested?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't know, but he's hackable.
> I actually would LOVE to move to Judea.
Click to expand...


Those hills. Reminds me of parts of Cyprus.


----------



## rylah




----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


>



Is that your view?


----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that your view?
Click to expand...


Those above are cities in Judea,
My dream view, I live by the sea now, but more used to mountains and forests.


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that your view?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those above are cities and in Judea,
> My dream view, I live by the sea now, but more used to mountains and forests.
Click to expand...


I would live by the sea if I could.


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that your view?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those above are cities and in Judea,
> My dream view, I live by the sea now, but more used to mountains and forests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would live by the sea if I could.
Click to expand...


Shavey Tzion near Nahariyah are nice places









Nahariyah


----------



## rylah




----------



## danielpalos

Sixties Fan said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really really does exist, not Judea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No State of Judea, no Ju's from Dea.
> 
> That is ok.  Hebrews have their history in writing.
> 
> Hebrew history will continue, like usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What exactly are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews....Where are the Jews?  Perhaps the Hebrews can tell us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are RIGHT HERE you insolent nobody, First class student of all the hatred for Jews as taught in the past 2000 years, after an ex Jew told the Biggest Lie Ever Told In History, which continues to consume empty brains like yours.
Click to expand...

Where is Judea, alleged Judean?  Did you lose it.


----------



## danielpalos

Mindful said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really really does exist, not Judea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No State of Judea, no Ju's from Dea.
> 
> That is ok.  Hebrews have their history in writing.
> 
> Hebrew history will continue, like usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What exactly are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews....Where are the Jews?  Perhaps the Hebrews can tell us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And where are THEY?
Click to expand...

Hebrews must know how to read historical Hebrew.


----------



## danielpalos

Mindful said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Judean history is historical; Israeli history is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no State of Judea exists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *State of Judea *
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You think he's seriously interested?
Click to expand...

A State for Stateless Judeans!


----------



## Mindful

danielpalos said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn.
> 
> 
> 
> No State of Judea, no Ju's from Dea.
> 
> That is ok.  Hebrews have their history in writing.
> 
> Hebrew history will continue, like usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What exactly are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews....Where are the Jews?  Perhaps the Hebrews can tell us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And where are THEY?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hebrews must know how to read historical Hebrew.
Click to expand...


----------



## rylah

Judean communities are the frontline against ascension of Islamism globally


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Mindful said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> No State of Judea, no Ju's from Dea.
> 
> That is ok.  Hebrews have their history in writing.
> 
> Hebrew history will continue, like usual.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews....Where are the Jews?  Perhaps the Hebrews can tell us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And where are THEY?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hebrews must know how to read historical Hebrew.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

 

I I actually enjoy his rambling. In the diaspora the Hebrews were called Judeans but he’s too stupid to know that


----------



## danielpalos

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly are you talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> Jews....Where are the Jews?  Perhaps the Hebrews can tell us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And where are THEY?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hebrews must know how to read historical Hebrew.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I I actually enjoy his rambling. In the diaspora the Hebrews were called Judeans but he’s too stupid to know that
Click to expand...

not the point.  Israel exists.  Judah or Judea, doesn't. Why allege to be faithful to that State which does not exist?

for comparison and contrast, it would be analogous to a Catholic having faith in the "Holy Ghost" over the US.


----------



## Sixties Fan

danielpalos said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews....Where are the Jews?  Perhaps the Hebrews can tell us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And where are THEY?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hebrews must know how to read historical Hebrew.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I I actually enjoy his rambling. In the diaspora the Hebrews were called Judeans but he’s too stupid to know that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> not the point.  Israel exists.  Judah or Judea, doesn't. Why allege to be faithful to that State which does not exist?
> 
> for comparison and contrast, it would be analogous to a Catholic having faith in the "Holy Ghost" over the US.
Click to expand...


----------



## danielpalos

Sixties Fan said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> And where are THEY?
> 
> 
> 
> Hebrews must know how to read historical Hebrew.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I I actually enjoy his rambling. In the diaspora the Hebrews were called Judeans but he’s too stupid to know that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> not the point.  Israel exists.  Judah or Judea, doesn't. Why allege to be faithful to that State which does not exist?
> 
> for comparison and contrast, it would be analogous to a Catholic having faith in the "Holy Ghost" over the US.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

we live in the secular and temporal plane.


----------



## Shusha

danielpalos said:


> we live in the secular and temporal plane.



Well, WE do.  Not sure where you live.


----------



## danielpalos

Shusha said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> we live in the secular and temporal plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, WE do.  Not sure where you live.
Click to expand...

i know how to read maps, too.


----------



## rylah




----------



## Sixties Fan

Pittsburgh shooter a fan of sites that love Electronic Intifada, Max Blumenthal, Mondoweiss ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## danielpalos

Let's create Jewish history with a State of Judea!


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?


The Balfour Declaration said the Zionists could have "part" of this land, provided it didn't disenfranchise the rights of the existing indigenous, non-Jewish population.  But that's not what happened.  You can't move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.

Ever since the Zionist migration at the turn of the last century, you've been treating the Palestinians like garbage.  Treating them like they are sub-human.  Showing absolutely no empathy for what they've had to endure.  And one doesn't have to go any farther than your own posts to see the total contempt and disdain you have for these people.

You want people to be nice to Israel, then stop your genocide against the Palestinians.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Start your own thread on that.
> 
> You are OFF TOPIC  !!!!


This is a debate website, twisted sister.  You wanna talk about Jewish history, then you're gonna have to debate opposing views.  And one of those opposing views is that there is no Jewish history.


----------



## Mindful

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Start your own thread on that.
> 
> You are OFF TOPIC  !!!!
> 
> 
> 
> This is a debate website, twisted sister.  You wanna talk about Jewish history, then you're gonna have to debate opposing views.  And one of those opposing views is that there is no Jewish history.
Click to expand...


You don't do opposing views. You don't do any views.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> The Balfour Declaration said the Zionists could have "part" of this land, provided it didn't disenfranchise the rights of the existing indigenous, non-Jewish population.



The "part" of the land that the Jewish people were supposed to have was all of the territory that was not to become Jordan.  



> But that's not what happened.  You can't move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.



The Jewish people don't have "more" rights.  They have the same rights that are enshrined with Jordan and with Iraq and with Syria and with Lebanon.  Its called sovereignty.


----------



## Billo_Really

Mindful said:


> You don't do opposing views. You don't do any views.


I oppose Israels treatment of the Palestinians.  That's an opposing view.  I oppose the notion there is a concerted effort to destroy Jewish history.  And I definitely oppose your childish bullshit trying to make Israel look like the good guy.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> The "part" of the land that the Jewish people were supposed to have was all of the territory that was not to become Jordan.


You were given part of the area as long as you didn't screw with the rights of the existing population. But since you're selfish assholes, you wanted their land to.




Shusha said:


> The Jewish people don't have "more" rights.  They have the same rights that are enshrined with Jordan and with Iraq and with Syria and with Lebanon.  Its called sovereignty.


The Pals have rights to.  You don't have sovereignty in the West Bank, so what the fuck are you doing there?  You don't have sovereignty in Gaza, so why did you turn it into a prison?  You don't have sovereignty in East Jerusalem, so why are you trying to take it.  That's not sovereignty, that's aggression.


----------



## Sixties Fan

With the passing of 100 years since the Balfour Promise (i.e., Declaration), the message must be conveyed to the Jewish Israelis, and particularly those among them who were and still are victims of systematic fraud. We say to them with full sincerity: You are victims of a plan of fraud by the greatest colonial powers in the world, since British Foreign Secretary [Arthur] Balfour made a promise to your foreign forefathers who have no right to the land of our homeland Palestine, and until [US President Donald] Trump, who promised you to destroy our spirit, our culture, and our identity when he realized his promise to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of your state… Jewish Israelis, what you need to know is that Great Britain scorned your human value when it used your forefathers as a colonial pawn in the region. That is what Balfour did, who whispered to you unprecedented hatred and prevented you from seeking refuge in Britain during the period when you fled from the rest of Europe. All Balfour did was to export your problem to our land, and colonialist Britain did indeed succeed in using you.

(full article online)

PA daily op-ed to Jewish Israelis: “You are victims of a plan of fraud” by the “colonial powers” since Balfour “made a promise to your foreign forefathers who have no right to the land of our homeland Palestine” - Denying Israel's right to exist | PMW


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel portrayed as foreign colonial occupier, not a legitimate state -- PA TV

The PA TV video shows a woman who represents "ancient Palestinians" (or possibly Muslims) going through the history of the land - replacing the Jewish people's actual history. The woman is introduced in a peaceful scene feeding birds in a period predating the Roman conquest of Judea and destruction of the Temple in 70 CE. Suddenly the scene is disturbed, the birds scatter and the woman runs away from various foreign invaders: first an ancient Roman soldier, then a Crusader, then a British soldier, and finally a Jew (wearing a skullcap), who throws a lit cigarette at her. 
In the final scene, the woman stops fleeing when a man on a horse - the "new" Muslim conqueror Saladin who defeated the Crusaders - extends his hand and helps her up the mountain. He represents the coming savior who will "liberate Palestine" from Jewish-Israeli rule. In the end, the woman stands on the top of the mountain, fleeing no one anymore, symbolizing that Israel is gone like the other foreign rulers.

(vide video online)


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> You were given part of the area as long as you didn't screw with the rights of the existing population. But since you're selfish assholes, you wanted their land to.



You have a remarkable ability to reverse the reality.  Palestine was divided into a Jewish State (Israel) and an Arab State (Jordan).  Arabs rejected this outcome and wanted more land.  The Jewish part of Palestine was then divided again into a Jewish State (Israel) and an Arab State (Arab Palestine).  Arabs rejected this outcome and wanted more land.  

Arabs are now demanding that the Jewish people should have NO LAND and that it is all Arab land.  Just in the past few days, someone was posting that there were NO JEWS and NO JEWISH HISTORY in the land.  

If you support the idea that the Jewish people should have some part of the territory, you need to be arguing AGAINST the March of Return.  You need to be arguing AGAINST the kites, the tunnels, the IEDs, the protest, the rockets and the attacks on Israeli citizens.  If you support the idea that the Jewish people have rights based on their pre-existing history with the land, then you should be acknowledging that there is nothing for the people of Gaza to win with war or "resistance". 

The blockade is a security measure.  Security measures don't end with war and resistance.


----------



## Mindful

Shusha said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> You were given part of the area as long as you didn't screw with the rights of the existing population. But since you're selfish assholes, you wanted their land to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have a remarkable ability to reverse the reality.  Palestine was divided into a Jewish State (Israel) and an Arab State (Jordan).  Arabs rejected this outcome and wanted more land.  The Jewish part of Palestine was then divided again into a Jewish State (Israel) and an Arab State (Arab Palestine).  Arabs rejected this outcome and wanted more land.
> 
> Arabs are now demanding that the Jewish people should have NO LAND and that it is all Arab land.  Just in the past few days, someone was posting that there were NO JEWS and NO JEWISH HISTORY in the land.
> 
> If you support the idea that the Jewish people should have some part of the territory, you need to be arguing AGAINST the March of Return.  You need to be arguing AGAINST the kites, the tunnels, the IEDs, the protest, the rockets and the attacks on Israeli citizens.  If you support the idea that the Jewish people have rights based on their pre-existing history with the land, then you should be acknowledging that there is nothing for the people of Gaza to win with war or "resistance".
> 
> The blockade is a security measure.  Security measures don't end with war and resistance.
Click to expand...



Do you seriously think he understands any of that?


----------



## Shusha

Mindful said:


> Do you seriously think he understands any of that?



Oh, on the contrary.  I think he understands it very well.  He knows very well that everything is not actually the responsibility of the Jews.  He just excuses bad behaviour against Jews because, well, ... JOOOOOS.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "part" of the land that the Jewish people were supposed to have was all of the territory that was not to become Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> You were given part of the area as long as you didn't screw with the rights of the existing population. But since you're selfish assholes, you wanted their land to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people don't have "more" rights.  They have the same rights that are enshrined with Jordan and with Iraq and with Syria and with Lebanon.  Its called sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Pals have rights to.  You don't have sovereignty in the West Bank, so what the fuck are you doing there?  You don't have sovereignty in Gaza, so why did you turn it into a prison?  You don't have sovereignty in East Jerusalem, so why are you trying to take it.  That's not sovereignty, that's aggression.
Click to expand...


 You are such a FUCKING ASSHOLE you don’t realize they consider ALL of Israel “ Palestine “


----------



## Mindful

Shusha said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you seriously think he understands any of that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, on the contrary.  I think he understands it very well.  He knows very well that everything is not actually the responsibility of the Jews.  He just excuses bad behaviour against Jews because, well, ... JOOOOOS.
Click to expand...


He sounds like a dimwit to me. Or a blithering idiot.

Just look at that maniacal grin.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> You were given part of the area as long as you didn't screw with the rights of the existing population. But since you're selfish assholes, you wanted their land to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have a remarkable ability to reverse the reality.  Palestine was divided into a Jewish State (Israel) and an Arab State (Jordan).  Arabs rejected this outcome and wanted more land.  The Jewish part of Palestine was then divided again into a Jewish State (Israel) and an Arab State (Arab Palestine).  Arabs rejected this outcome and wanted more land.
> 
> Arabs are now demanding that the Jewish people should have NO LAND and that it is all Arab land.  Just in the past few days, someone was posting that there were NO JEWS and NO JEWISH HISTORY in the land.
> 
> If you support the idea that the Jewish people should have some part of the territory, you need to be arguing AGAINST the March of Return.  You need to be arguing AGAINST the kites, the tunnels, the IEDs, the protest, the rockets and the attacks on Israeli citizens.  If you support the idea that the Jewish people have rights based on their pre-existing history with the land, then you should be acknowledging that there is nothing for the people of Gaza to win with war or "resistance".
> 
> The blockade is a security measure.  Security measures don't end with war and resistance.
Click to expand...


It was me. I posted a link in which Abbas stated that the Jews did not have any Historical Connection to Israel.  The FUCK FACE apparently is unaware of this


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> You have a remarkable ability to reverse the reality.  Palestine was divided into a Jewish State (Israel) and an Arab State (Jordan).  Arabs rejected this outcome and wanted more land.  The Jewish part of Palestine was then divided again into a Jewish State (Israel) and an Arab State (Arab Palestine).  Arabs rejected this outcome and wanted more land.
> 
> Arabs are now demanding that the Jewish people should have NO LAND and that it is all Arab land.  Just in the past few days, someone was posting that there were NO JEWS and NO JEWISH HISTORY in the land.
> 
> If you support the idea that the Jewish people should have some part of the territory, you need to be arguing AGAINST the March of Return.  You need to be arguing AGAINST the kites, the tunnels, the IEDs, the protest, the rockets and the attacks on Israeli citizens.  If you support the idea that the Jewish people have rights based on their pre-existing history with the land, then you should be acknowledging that there is nothing for the people of Gaza to win with war or "resistance".
> 
> The blockade is a security measure.  Security measures don't end with war and resistance.


At the time of the Zionist migration, Palestinian-Arabs were the majority population.  But because Zionists kissed major British ass at the time, the Mandate came in and gave 70% of the land, to 10% of the population.  What Arab would agree to that?

As far as the March of Return, if you can return after 3000 years, they can return after 70 years.

And no, the blockade has nothing to do with security.  It is to punish Gazans for voting for Hamas in a fair and democratic election.  The blockade is "collective punishment" on a population of 1.5 million people.  And THAT, is a war crime.


----------



## Billo_Really

Mindful said:


> Do you seriously think he understands any of that?


I don't know why you're so mean to me, but I kinda like it!


----------



## Billo_Really

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> You are such a FUCKING ASSHOLE you don’t realize they consider ALL of Israel “ Palestine “


And you just demonize them 24/7 for the same reason a dog licks' its balls!


----------



## Billo_Really

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> It was me. I posted a link in which Abbas stated that the Jews did not have any Historical Connection to Israel.  The FUCK FACE apparently is unaware of this


Abbas was a dumbass.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have a remarkable ability to reverse the reality.  Palestine was divided into a Jewish State (Israel) and an Arab State (Jordan).  Arabs rejected this outcome and wanted more land.  The Jewish part of Palestine was then divided again into a Jewish State (Israel) and an Arab State (Arab Palestine).  Arabs rejected this outcome and wanted more land.
> 
> Arabs are now demanding that the Jewish people should have NO LAND and that it is all Arab land.  Just in the past few days, someone was posting that there were NO JEWS and NO JEWISH HISTORY in the land.
> 
> If you support the idea that the Jewish people should have some part of the territory, you need to be arguing AGAINST the March of Return.  You need to be arguing AGAINST the kites, the tunnels, the IEDs, the protest, the rockets and the attacks on Israeli citizens.  If you support the idea that the Jewish people have rights based on their pre-existing history with the land, then you should be acknowledging that there is nothing for the people of Gaza to win with war or "resistance".
> 
> The blockade is a security measure.  Security measures don't end with war and resistance.
> 
> 
> 
> At the time of the Zionist migration, Palestinian-Arabs were the majority population.  But because Zionists kissed major British ass at the time, the Mandate came in and gave 70% of the land, to 10% of the population.  What Arab would agree to that?
> 
> As far as the March of Return, if you can return after 3000 years, they can return after 70 years.
> 
> And no, the blockade has nothing to do with security.  It is to punish Gazans for voting for Hamas in a fair and democratic election.  The blockade is "collective punishment" on a population of 1.5 million people.  And THAT, is a war crime.
Click to expand...

Amazing world you live in.

Europeans are the majority in Australia and the Americas.  Does it take away the rights of the indigenous people as the indigenous people of the land?  No.

The Jewish people did not "return" after 3000 years.  There were always Jewish people on the land present at every time of history.  The ancient homeland of the Jewish Nation was never empty of Jewish people.

If you can call firing thousands of rockets, which kill people and destroy property
not a security necessity for a legal blockade.......enough said.

The collective punishment you are referring to comes from Hamas which teaches and feeds hatred for Israel and all Jews, and incites those poor ignorant people to go and die instead of the leaders.

The leaders get rich, the rest of the population pays for their decisions.

You are absolutely correct.  What Hamas has been doing to the Arab population in Gaza is definitely a war crime.

Using human shields.
Kidnapping soldiers or civilian Israelis, Jews and non Jews.
Refusing that the Red Cross be allowed to visit those Israelis it has captured.
Firing rockets from civilian areas.

I could mention more......but you do get the gist now of what war crimes actually are, do you not?

They  are definitely not what you decide they are, just because the other party is Israel.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> At the time of the Zionist migration, Palestinian-Arabs were the majority population.



And your point is?  Right now Jews are the majority population.  So should they get the whole territory?  Look you either agree that the Jewish people should have part of the territory or you don't.  Stop making excuses now for your own words. 



> And no, the blockade has nothing to do with security.  It is to punish Gazans for voting for Hamas in a fair and democratic election.  The blockade is "collective punishment" on a population of 1.5 million people.



Sure.  Nothing to see here in Gaza.  Just peaceful protests, kindness kites, respect rockets, benevolence bombs and tolerance tunnels.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Amazing world you live in.


I know.  SoCal is pretty kick-ass!



Sixties Fan said:


> Europeans are the majority in Australia and the Americas.  Does it take away the rights of the indigenous people as the indigenous people of the land?  No.


Of coarse they did.  We wiped out the native Americans and they wiped out the Aborigines.  But we made it up to them.  They have lots of casinos to get rich on.  When do the Pals get their casinos?



Sixties Fan said:


> The Jewish people did not "return" after 3000 years.  There were always Jewish people on the land present at every time of history.  The ancient homeland of the Jewish Nation was never empty of Jewish people.


That is correct.  Palestinian-Jews have always lived there.  Right next to their Palestinian-Arab neighbors.  For hundreds of years, there were very few major incidents of violence.  But as soon as the Zionists showed up, all hell broke loose.



Sixties Fan said:


> If you can call firing thousands of rockets, which kill people and destroy property
> not a security necessity for a legal blockade.......enough said.


The rockets didn't start until 2001.  A full 34 years after the occupation began.  And what do you expect is going to happen when you constantly conduct commando raids into their territory?  Constant drone strikes.  Constant missile strikes.  Christ, they can't even fish and farm without you fuckers shooting at them.  When you do shit like that, of coarse you're going to get rockets!  They have an inalienable right to defend themselves form foreign aggression.



Sixties Fan said:


> The collective punishment you are referring to comes from Hamas which teaches and feeds hatred for Israel and all Jews, and incites those poor ignorant people to go and die instead of the leaders.


Wrong!  That's just the bullshit lie you keep telling, because you don't have the balls to be responsible for your own actions.



Sixties Fan said:


> The leaders get rich, the rest of the population pays for their decisions.


I'll agree with that.  No one is saying Hamas are angels.  But they're not the big, bad, boogie you keep making them out to be.



Sixties Fan said:


> You are absolutely correct.  What Hamas has been doing to the Arab population in Gaza is definitely a war crime.


I didn't say that.



Sixties Fan said:


> Using human shields.
> Kidnapping soldiers or civilian Israelis, Jews and non Jews.
> Refusing that the Red Cross be allowed to visit those Israelis it has captured.
> Firing rockets from civilian areas.
> 
> I could mention more......but you do get the gist now of what war crimes actually are, do you not?


You just listed everything the IDF does and I can prove it.   In regards to human shields, do you know what a "Johnnie" is?



Sixties Fan said:


> They  are definitely not what you decide they are, just because the other party is Israel.


And it doesn't matter what you say, you're not going to convince the world that the emperor has new clothes.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> And your point is?  Right now Jews are the majority population.  So should they get the whole territory?  Look you either agree that the Jewish people should have part of the territory or you don't.  Stop making excuses now for your own words.


Get back on your meds, you're speaking gibberish.




Shusha said:


> Sure.  Nothing to see here in Gaza.  Just peaceful protests, kindness kites, respect rockets, benevolence bombs and tolerance tunnels.


All caused by the blockade.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Halevi’s full response:

Those who traffic in that kind of language are on very thin ice. My understanding of anti-Semitism is the following: anti-Semitism is not simply hating the other, the Jew as other. Anti-Semitism works a little bit differently. What anti-Semitism does is turn the Jews, the Jew, into the symbol of whatever it is that a given civilization defines as its most loathsome qualities. And so, under Christianity, before the Holocaust and Vatican II, the Jew was the Christ-killer, his blood be upon our heads and upon our children; that’s forever. Under communism, the Jew was the capitalist. Under Nazism, the Jew was the race-polluter, the ultimate race-polluter. 

Now we live in a different civilization. Now we live in a civilization where the most loathsome qualities are racism, colonialism, apartheid. And lo and behold, the greatest offender in the world today, with all the beautiful countries of the world, is the Jewish state. The Jewish state is the symbol of the genocidal racist apartheid state. That’s Israel. That’s the Jewish state. 

An Israeli political philosopher named Jacob Talmon once put it this way: ‘The state of the Jews has become the Jew of the states.’ What that means to me is criticism of Israel is not anti-Semitism. Criticism of Israel’s existence, denying Israel the right to exist, calling Israel the ‘Zionist entity,’ that is anti-Semitism. 

That is a classical continuity of thousands of years of symbolizing the Jew. So using that kind of language places you in very uncomfortable company. That kind of language can come today from the far left, it can come from white supremacists, it can come from Islamist extremists, it can come from many sources. But all of those groups converge on one idea: the Jew remains humanity’s great problem.


(full article online)

Author: Criticizing Israel's Existence, Denying Its Right to Exist Is Modern Anti-Semitism


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing world you live in.
> 
> 
> 
> I know.  SoCal is pretty kick-ass!
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Europeans are the majority in Australia and the Americas.  Does it take away the rights of the indigenous people as the indigenous people of the land?  No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of coarse they did.  We wiped out the native Americans and they wiped out the Aborigines.  But we made it up to them.  They have lots of casinos to get rich on.  When do the Pals get their casinos?
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people did not "return" after 3000 years.  There were always Jewish people on the land present at every time of history.  The ancient homeland of the Jewish Nation was never empty of Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is correct.  Palestinian-Jews have always lived there.  Right next to their Palestinian-Arab neighbors.  For hundreds of years, there were very few major incidents of violence.  But as soon as the Zionists showed up, all hell broke loose.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you can call firing thousands of rockets, which kill people and destroy property
> not a security necessity for a legal blockade.......enough said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The rockets didn't start until 2001.  A full 34 years after the occupation began.  And what do you expect is going to happen when you constantly conduct commando raids into their territory?  Constant drone strikes.  Constant missile strikes.  Christ, they can't even fish and farm without you fuckers shooting at them.  When you do shit like that, of coarse you're going to get rockets!  They have an inalienable right to defend themselves form foreign aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The collective punishment you are referring to comes from Hamas which teaches and feeds hatred for Israel and all Jews, and incites those poor ignorant people to go and die instead of the leaders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong!  That's just the bullshit lie you keep telling, because you don't have the balls to be responsible for your own actions.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The leaders get rich, the rest of the population pays for their decisions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'll agree with that.  No one is saying Hamas are angels.  But they're not the big, bad, boogie you keep making them out to be.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are absolutely correct.  What Hamas has been doing to the Arab population in Gaza is definitely a war crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say that.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Using human shields.
> Kidnapping soldiers or civilian Israelis, Jews and non Jews.
> Refusing that the Red Cross be allowed to visit those Israelis it has captured.
> Firing rockets from civilian areas.
> 
> I could mention more......but you do get the gist now of what war crimes actually are, do you not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You just listed everything the IDF does and I can prove it.   In regards to human shields, do you know what a "Johnnie" is?
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They  are definitely not what you decide they are, just because the other party is Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And it doesn't matter what you say, you're not going to convince the world that the emperor has new clothes.
Click to expand...

Your answers, your posts, are a prime example of those who think that they have the right to destroy Jewish History.

You do not get one fact right.  All of your answers come either from willful ignorance or willful hatred learned all of your life.

You are a waste of time with your repetitive BDS one liners.

BDS is not based on facts.

Neither are you.

You are absolutely correct.  No one can convince ignorant people that the Emperors (Hamas and the PLO/Fatah)  have no clothes.

Keep enjoying your fictional world just as those Arab groups and the whole Arab League have been since 1920.  

Defending oneself and one's country is a crime.

Attempting to destroy a country, and all of its citizens (Israel) is not.

Message received

 (same message the Muslims, Christians and all who will believe them keep voicing against Israel.   Hurray to the UN, made now of the greatest Christian and Muslim powers in the world who think they can and will destroy Israel AND its People AND its history one way or another, regardless of their horrible records in human rights which can be seen on a daily basis)

The right to destroy Jewish history and Israel

BY THE HYPOCRITES OF THE WORLD


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Your answers, your posts, are a prime example of those who think that they have the right to destroy Jewish History.
> 
> You do not get one fact right.  All of your answers come either from willful ignorance or willful hatred learned all of your life.
> 
> You are a waste of time with your repetitive BDS one liners.
> 
> BDS is not based on facts.
> 
> Neither are you.
> 
> You are absolutely correct.  No one can convince ignorant people that the Emperors (Hamas and the PLO/Fatah)  have no clothes.
> 
> Keep enjoying your fictional world just as those Arab groups and the whole Arab League have been since 1920.
> 
> Defending oneself and one's country is a crime.
> 
> Attempting to destroy a country, and all of its citizens (Israel) is not.
> 
> Message received
> 
> (same message the Muslims, Christians and all who will believe them keep voicing against Israel.   Hurray to the UN, made now of the greatest Christian and Muslim powers in the world who think they can and will destroy Israel AND its People AND its history one way or another, regardless of their horrible records in human rights which can be seen on a daily basis)
> 
> The right to destroy Jewish history and Israel
> 
> BY THE HYPOCRITES OF THE WORLD


You do know a lot about hypocrisy.  You claim the Palestinians didn't exist until the mid-sixties, yet say it is Jewish history that people want the right to destroy.

You are the poster child for everything that is wrong with Israel............_.in China!
_
Maybe that's why China has brown air?  From all the shit flying from your gums.


----------



## JoeB131

I think the destruction of history is always  a bad thing. 

But the Zionists are bombing women and children... I think that's a little worse.


----------



## JoeB131

Sixties Fan said:


> The Jewish people did not "return" after 3000 years. There were always Jewish people on the land present at every time of history. The ancient homeland of the Jewish Nation was never empty of Jewish people.



then why did they need to import so many of them from Europe.  

The Census figures show that Jews have been a minority in Palestine for centuries... until Europe decided to start dumping their unwanted Jews there.  

That these Europeans happen to practice a bastardized version of the religion practiced there 2000 years ago is besides the point.


----------



## Hollie

JoeB131 said:


> I think the destruction of history is always  a bad thing.
> 
> But the Zionists are bombing women and children... I think that's a little worse.



I’m guessing the hundreds of rockets fired from the Islamic terrorist enclave of Gaza’istan is of no concern. Just another day in the world of the Islamist barbarian.


----------



## Hollie

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people did not "return" after 3000 years. There were always Jewish people on the land present at every time of history. The ancient homeland of the Jewish Nation was never empty of Jewish people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> then why did they need to import so many of them from Europe.
> 
> The Census figures show that Jews have been a minority in Palestine for centuries... until Europe decided to start dumping their unwanted Jews there.
> 
> That these Europeans happen to practice a bastardized version of the religion practiced there 2000 years ago is besides the point.
Click to expand...


Europe didn’t dump Jews in the State of Israel. Jews had a desire to leave Europe after WW2 due to a recent history of folks who share your illness.


----------



## JoeB131

Hollie said:


> I’m guessing the hundreds of rockets fired from the Islamic terrorist enclave of Gaza’istan is of no concern. Just another day in the world of the Islamist barbarian.



I'm always reminded of that film, "The Battle of Algeirs" when they rebel leader is asked why they deliver bombs in baskets... and he replies, "Why do you drop bombs form planes? We'd rather have your planes, you can have our baskets". 

The stupidity is living next to people who want to kill you for stealing their land because a Magic Sky Fairy promised you their land. 



Hollie said:


> Europe didn’t dump Jews in the State of Israel. Jews had a desire to leave Europe after WW2 due to a recent history of folks who share your illness.



And if you proposed giving the Jews a big slice of Germany as a homeland in compensation, I'd have no argument with you.  But giving them Palestine because you feel bad about what the Germans did to them is like me giving someone your TV because I feel sorry for them.


----------



## Shusha

JoeB131 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m guessing the hundreds of rockets fired from the Islamic terrorist enclave of Gaza’istan is of no concern. Just another day in the world of the Islamist barbarian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm always reminded of that film, "The Battle of Algeirs" when they rebel leader is asked why they deliver bombs in baskets... and he replies, "Why do you drop bombs form planes? We'd rather have your planes, you can have our baskets".
> 
> The stupidity is living next to people who want to kill you for stealing their land because a Magic Sky Fairy promised you their land.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Europe didn’t dump Jews in the State of Israel. Jews had a desire to leave Europe after WW2 due to a recent history of folks who share your illness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And if you proposed giving the Jews a big slice of Germany as a homeland in compensation, I'd have no argument with you.  But giving them Palestine because you feel bad about what the Germans did to them is like me giving someone your TV because I feel sorry for them.
Click to expand...


The fact that you disconnect the Jewish people's wish to live in and have self-determination in their own national homeland demonstrates the source of your arguments as anti-semitism.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hollie said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people did not "return" after 3000 years. There were always Jewish people on the land present at every time of history. The ancient homeland of the Jewish Nation was never empty of Jewish people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> then why did they need to import so many of them from Europe.
> 
> The Census figures show that Jews have been a minority in Palestine for centuries... until Europe decided to start dumping their unwanted Jews there.
> 
> That these Europeans happen to practice a bastardized version of the religion practiced there 2000 years ago is besides the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Europe didn’t dump Jews in the State of Israel. Jews had a desire to leave Europe after WW2 due to a recent history of folks who share your illness.
Click to expand...

Jews always left Europe when they saw that there was no future for them there due to Christian oppression.

And they realized, as early as the early 1820s that there would be no Renaissance for them on that Continent.  Lots of Jews returned home to their ancient homeland from the early 1800's on.

But some people are ignorant of it, or sweep it under the rug, because it is much easier to give the land to the invading Arabs, Europeans, and Turks who conquered the land until 1917 and keep the Jews in the place Christians and Muslims want them to remain.

As needy subjects of Christianity and Islam.

Not that anything has changed with the State of Israel.
Just look at the history of the area and the world, and how the UN changed, and what the EU wants and supports.

Deny the Jewish People their land and history.  Put an end to them.  From Martin Luther to Hitler.....the idea of getting rid of all Jews is alive and well, and many are trying to make sure it is implemented.


----------



## Sixties Fan

JoeB131 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m guessing the hundreds of rockets fired from the Islamic terrorist enclave of Gaza’istan is of no concern. Just another day in the world of the Islamist barbarian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm always reminded of that film, "The Battle of Algeirs" when they rebel leader is asked why they deliver bombs in baskets... and he replies, "Why do you drop bombs form planes? We'd rather have your planes, you can have our baskets".
> 
> The stupidity is living next to people who want to kill you for stealing their land because a Magic Sky Fairy promised you their land.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Europe didn’t dump Jews in the State of Israel. Jews had a desire to leave Europe after WW2 due to a recent history of folks who share your illness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And if you proposed giving the Jews a big slice of Germany as a homeland in compensation, I'd have no argument with you.  But giving them Palestine because you feel bad about what the Germans did to them is like me giving someone your TV because I feel sorry for them.
Click to expand...

You have given us your distorted version of history many times.
None of what you have posted is correct, but it does not bother you and you could not care less.

The Balfour Declaration was long before WWII, so you really need to figure out what the Declaration was and how the Jews got the right to become sovereign over any part of their ancient homeland again, lonnnng before WWII and Germany happened.


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Deny the Jewish People their land and history.  Put an end to them.  From Martin Luther to Hitler.....the idea of getting rid of all Jews is alive and well, and many are trying to make sure it is implemented.



The modern turn this concept takes, for those not calling for actually "ripping the hearts out of Jews", is to disappear the Jewish people by claiming that most Jews are not "real" Jews.  We see this on this forum all the time.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deny the Jewish People their land and history.  Put an end to them.  From Martin Luther to Hitler.....the idea of getting rid of all Jews is alive and well, and many are trying to make sure it is implemented.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The modern turn this concept takes, for those not calling for actually "ripping the hearts out of Jews", is to disappear the Jewish people by claiming that most Jews are not "real" Jews.  We see this on this forum all the time.
Click to expand...

The best version is that ALL Jews disappeared, somehow, and that some idiots apparently thought that it was a good idea to take over that religion, and then the land.

But those ideas seem to only apply to the Jewish Nation/People and no other Nation/People on the planet.

And we do not have to guess why.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  The Right To Destroy Jewish History
※→  Sixties Fan,  JoeB131,  Hollie, et al,

Once a decisive military entanglement has answered the political disagreement, the same the political disagreement in other cases must elicit the same response from that same political-military venue.



Sixties Fan said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m guessing the hundreds of rockets fired from the Islamic terrorist enclave of Gaza’istan is of no concern. Just another day in the world of the Islamist barbarian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm always reminded of that film, "The Battle of Algeirs" when they rebel leader is asked why they deliver bombs in baskets... and he replies, "Why do you drop bombs form planes? We'd rather have your planes, you can have our baskets".
> 
> The stupidity is living next to people who want to kill you for stealing their land because a Magic Sky Fairy promised you their land.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Europe didn’t dump Jews in the State of Israel. Jews had a desire to leave Europe after WW2 due to a recent history of folks who share your illness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And if you proposed giving the Jews a big slice of Germany as a homeland in compensation, I'd have no argument with you.  But giving them Palestine because you feel bad about what the Germans did to them is like me giving someone your TV because I feel sorry for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have given us your distorted version of history many times.
> None of what you have posted is correct, but it does not bother you and you could not care less.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration was long before WWII, so you really need to figure out what the Declaration was and how the Jews got the right to become sovereign over any part of their ancient homeland again, lonnnng before WWII and Germany happened.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Typically, a serious military response to a belligerent aggressor that refuses to accept the previous military outcome should expect the Israeli reply to gradually become more destructive, confrontational, painful, or otherwise serious over time.

I think the Israelis have shown a remarkable restraint given the elapsed time of over which the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters have been operating with Palestinian _(governmental and civilian)_ sympathy and support.

And our friend "Sixies Fan" is absolutely correct!  There is no defined right to sovereignty; or, "who is entitled to claim this right—a group, a people, or a nation—and what exactly the right confers."  _(Patricia Carely)_



			
				Patricia Carley Program Officer for the former Soviet Union and Turkey at the US Institute of Peace said:
			
		

> Most of the world’s peoples have little experience with the West’s long history of sovereignty and statehoodand are thus not prepared to adhere to the Western insistence on the inviolability of existing borders. Those in the West who are alarmed by the growth of these nationalist movements should consider not whether these contemporary manifestations of nationalism are legal or appropriate, but rather that they are happening—and that they very likely cannot be stopped. The potential for violence and international instability becomes even more obvious when one considers that some still very large empires, such as Russia and China, are likely to be affected by these movements.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

JoeB131 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m guessing the hundreds of rockets fired from the Islamic terrorist enclave of Gaza’istan is of no concern. Just another day in the world of the Islamist barbarian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm always reminded of that film, "The Battle of Algeirs" when they rebel leader is asked why they deliver bombs in baskets... and he replies, "Why do you drop bombs form planes? We'd rather have your planes, you can have our baskets".
> 
> The stupidity is living next to people who want to kill you for stealing their land because a Magic Sky Fairy promised you their land.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Europe didn’t dump Jews in the State of Israel. Jews had a desire to leave Europe after WW2 due to a recent history of folks who share your illness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And if you proposed giving the Jews a big slice of Germany as a homeland in compensation, I'd have no argument with you.  But giving them Palestine because you feel bad about what the Germans did to them is like me giving someone your TV because I feel sorry for them.
Click to expand...



I'm reminded of the verses in the koran when the pious Arab-Moslem is asked why he feels compelled to kill Jews... and he (or she), replies:


• The Prophet offered the Fajr Prayer near Khaibar when it was still dark and then said, "Allahu-Akbar! Khaibar is destroyed, for whenever we approach a (hostile) nation (to fight), then evil will be the morning for those who have been warned." Then the inhabitants of Khaibar came out running on the roads. The Prophet had their men killed, their women and children taken as captives. Safiya was amongst the captives. She first came in the share of Dahya Alkali but later on she belonged to the Prophet -_Bukhari Vol 5, Bk 59, No 512 _

• "After the Messenger had finished with the Khaybar Jews, Allah cast terror into the hearts of the Jews in Fadak when they received news of what Allah had brought upon Khaybar. Fadak became the exclusive property of Allah's Messenger." -_Tabari 8:129 _

• Allah drove the Jews from their homes and cast terror into their hearts. (So that) some ye slew, and some ye made prisoners. And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, and of a land which ye had not frequented (before). And Allah has power over all things. -_Qur'an 33:26-27 _

• He it is Who drove the Jews from their homes and into exile. They refused to believe, while they were certain that their fortresses would defend them against Allah; but Allah came to them whence they did not expect, and cast terror into their hearts; they demolished their houses with their own hands and the hands of the believers; therefore take a lesson, O you who have eyes! -_Qur'an 59:2_



Ah, but that is a mere technicality. The fact is, “Palestinian Arabs” had no identifiable borders recognized by an international treaty and never exercised a working government that maintained sovereignty. You will hope to ignore that fact that the collapse of the Ottoman Empire included the stipulation that the caliphate renounces all rights and title to the territory called “Palestine”.  The “Palestinians” have no national identity. The only trait the “Palestinians” shared with Arabs-Moslems was being predominately Arab.


Other than to calm an emotional requirement to promote your rabid Jew hatreds, why is it that you can choose an arbitrary date after which the land belongs to a certain people? Is the usurpation of Jewish occupation of such lands in the more distant past less of an issue for you? Apparently, it is - you have never properly grappled with this issue, preferring to lean toward entirely inaccurate and unsupported history that attempts to say the Jews never occupied the lands historically, but you won't cease to blather on about how stealing land is wrong.

Is it only wrong, then, if it's been done (and I'm not even conceding that it HAS been done here) in the last 50 years? Do you have a statute of limitations on your morality, or do you just evaluate things differently when you're dealing with the misfortunes of a people against which you are clearly prejudiced, despite your frail attempts to pass it off as "Anti-Zionism" instead of antisemitism?


----------



## JoeB131

Shusha said:


> The fact that you disconnect the Jewish people's wish to live in and have self-determination in their own national homeland demonstrates the source of your arguments as anti-semitism.



Hey, I wish to live in a big mansion with an army of supermodels at my beck and call... but i think the person who owns that mansion and the supermodels would probably object to that. 

The point is, that hadn't been their homeland for thousands of years, and just because some Europeans happen to share a bastardized version of the religion of the people who lived their 3000 years ago just doesn't mean that much to me.



Sixties Fan said:


> You have given us your distorted version of history many times.
> None of what you have posted is correct, but it does not bother you and you could not care less.



Actually, it's totally correct. 



Sixties Fan said:


> The Balfour Declaration was long before WWII, so you really need to figure out what the Declaration was and how the Jews got the right to become sovereign over any part of their ancient homeland again, lonnnng before WWII and Germany happened.



Okay, let's look at that. Why did the British promise Palestine to the Jews during World War I while they were also openly encouraging the Arabs to revolt against the Ottomans. Mostly, because Russia was on the verge of collapse and they though promising Palestine to Russia's Jews would keep Russia in the war.

Here's the thing. It was never, ever Britain's place to promise Palestine to the Jews of Europe.

But a funny thing happened after the Balfour Declaration. Most of the Jews weren't all that interested. They didn't get interested until after WWII and Hitler turned a bunch of them into lampshades and bars of soap. Then the world felt really bad and went along with the Brit's dumb plan that they were already having second thoughts about, because the Arabs weren't too keen on it.


----------



## JoeB131

Hollie said:


> I'm reminded of the verses in the koran when the pious Arab-Moslem is asked why he feels compelled to kill Jews... and he (or she), replies:



You totally avoided my point, didn't you?  Yes, yes, you did. 

Okay, let's try again.. Why is it more civilized to drop bombs on women and children with planes than it is to just set off a bomb you strapped to someone. 



Hollie said:


> Ah, but that is a mere technicality. The fact is, “Palestinian Arabs” had no identifiable borders recognized by an international treaty and never exercised a working government that maintained sovereignty. You will hope to ignore that fact that the collapse of the Ottoman Empire included the stipulation that the caliphate renounces all rights and title to the territory called “Palestine”. The “Palestinians” have no national identity. The only trait the “Palestinians” shared with Arabs-Moslems was being predominately Arab.



Again the corrupt and bullying treaties imposed on the Central Powers after WWI don't mean a whole lot to me. Most historians agree that these were terrible, mean-spirited treaties that made WWII inevitable.

The Allies tried to carve up the Ottoman Empire to exploit its resources, and they saw resettling Jews into Palestine as a way to do imperialism by proxy, with the added benefit of getting rid of the Jews because, hey, nobody really liked them anyway. 





Hollie said:


> Other than to calm an emotional requirement to promote your rabid Jew hatreds, why is it that you can choose an arbitrary date after which the land belongs to a certain people? Is the usurpation of Jewish occupation of such lands in the more distant past less of an issue for you? Apparently, it is - you have never properly grappled with this issue, preferring to lean toward entirely inaccurate and unsupported history that attempts to say the Jews never occupied the lands historically, but you won't cease to blather on about how stealing land is wrong.



Um yeah, stealing land is always wrong. If the British hadn't settled them there, do you think Europe's Jews would have ever taken Palestine on their own?

The ironic thing was that the Islamic World before 1948 was more welcoming to the Jewish people than Christian Europe... until they screwed them and stole Palestine.



Hollie said:


> Is it only wrong, then, if it's been done (and I'm not even conceding that it HAS been done here) in the last 50 years? Do you have a statute of limitations on your morality, or do you just evaluate things differently when you're dealing with the misfortunes of a people against which you are clearly prejudiced, despite your frail attempts to pass it off as "Anti-Zionism" instead of antisemitism?



Here's the thing. The Arabs are more Semitic that the European Zionists are, so my problem is not being "anti-Semitic".  Given my druthers, America would pull out of the region, stop supporting either side and mind our own business instead of playing Hall Monitor of the Middle East. If they want to pound the shit out of each other over who a magic sky fairy promised some land to, have at it. So not my problem.

But when we get dragged into war after war over there because of the Zionists and the lock they have on Washington, then it kind of becomes my problem.  I would love to take the billions of dollars we spend propping up Zionism and use it to help Americans.


----------



## Sixties Fan

JoeB131 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm reminded of the verses in the koran when the pious Arab-Moslem is asked why he feels compelled to kill Jews... and he (or she), replies:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You totally avoided my point, didn't you?  Yes, yes, you did.
> 
> Okay, let's try again.. Why is it more civilized to drop bombs on women and children with planes than it is to just set off a bomb you strapped to someone.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, but that is a mere technicality. The fact is, “Palestinian Arabs” had no identifiable borders recognized by an international treaty and never exercised a working government that maintained sovereignty. You will hope to ignore that fact that the collapse of the Ottoman Empire included the stipulation that the caliphate renounces all rights and title to the territory called “Palestine”. The “Palestinians” have no national identity. The only trait the “Palestinians” shared with Arabs-Moslems was being predominately Arab.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again the corrupt and bullying treaties imposed on the Central Powers after WWI don't mean a whole lot to me. Most historians agree that these were terrible, mean-spirited treaties that made WWII inevitable.
> 
> The Allies tried to carve up the Ottoman Empire to exploit its resources, and they saw resettling Jews into Palestine as a way to do imperialism by proxy, with the added benefit of getting rid of the Jews because, hey, nobody really liked them anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Other than to calm an emotional requirement to promote your rabid Jew hatreds, why is it that you can choose an arbitrary date after which the land belongs to a certain people? Is the usurpation of Jewish occupation of such lands in the more distant past less of an issue for you? Apparently, it is - you have never properly grappled with this issue, preferring to lean toward entirely inaccurate and unsupported history that attempts to say the Jews never occupied the lands historically, but you won't cease to blather on about how stealing land is wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um yeah, stealing land is always wrong. If the British hadn't settled them there, do you think Europe's Jews would have ever taken Palestine on their own?
> 
> The ironic thing was that the Islamic World before 1948 was more welcoming to the Jewish people than Christian Europe... until they screwed them and stole Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is it only wrong, then, if it's been done (and I'm not even conceding that it HAS been done here) in the last 50 years? Do you have a statute of limitations on your morality, or do you just evaluate things differently when you're dealing with the misfortunes of a people against which you are clearly prejudiced, despite your frail attempts to pass it off as "Anti-Zionism" instead of antisemitism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here's the thing. The Arabs are more Semitic that the European Zionists are, so my problem is not being "anti-Semitic".  Given my druthers, America would pull out of the region, stop supporting either side and mind our own business instead of playing Hall Monitor of the Middle East. If they want to pound the shit out of each other over who a magic sky fairy promised some land to, have at it. So not my problem.
> 
> But when we get dragged into war after war over there because of the Zionists and the lock they have on Washington, then it kind of becomes my problem.  I would love to take the billions of dollars we spend propping up Zionism and use it to help Americans.
Click to expand...

You have dragged just about every talking point the Christians and Muslims have invented about Israel and the Jews (Zionists) for the past 100 years.   

CONGRATULATIONS !!!!

Israel just kills civilians, just like that?

A salute to the IDF

Col. Richard Kemp goes to the front lines to defend the IDF

Col. Richard Kemp: Israeli Pilot Aborted Gaza Strike 17 Times to Protect Civilians – Jewish People Should be Proud of the State of Israel (INTERVIEW)

Gaza's Civilian Casualties: The Truth Is Very Different


Your accusations have been totally debunked, but I am very sure that you will choose to go on believing whatever you feel like believing because YOU JUST HAVE THE RIGHT TO .

The Land of Israel has always been mentioned as the Land of the Jews, by both the Christians and the Muslims.
But then comes you, and very few others, and CLAIM that ALL THE JEWS WERE GONE from the land, regardless of all the RECORDED HISTORY in BOTH  Christian and Muslim history books, journals and reports.
HOW are you going to get away from this one?

Ha, CONSPIRACY THEORIES of Jews having A LOCK ON WASHINGTON.
OOOOOOH, how evil.  Iran, Turkey, Russia and many others have no "lock" on what they want to see happen out of the US.
Only Israel, ONLY the Jews.

Amazing how this nonsense only came out since the masterful fraud
called "Protocols" forged by the masterful Russians in 1903, WHICH caused the POGROMS against the Jews there, and then on Jews in other parts of the word, CAME OUT.

NONE of this NONSENSE of Jews controlling the world, or the USA existed before that fraud.

BUT YOU.....have swallowed the whole thing from soup to dessert, and WHOLE.

Your VERY OLD and VERY destructive logic makes Jews who moved to Europe SUDDENLY EUROPEANS.
Let me give you a hint:
Jews, like all other people, have been moving around the world for thousands of years.
Those Jews and their descendants, like all other people, will always be from the Land of Israel, ancient Canaan, and not from Europe, China, Russia, or any other part of the world they may have gone to at any time in history.
You and others who want to change the history of ONLY the Jews, 
will have to get used to thinking of it that way.

Zionism is ONLY the return of most of its indigenous Jewish People to its ancient homeland in order to live on it with sovereignty and freedom NOT GIVEN to the Jewish people anywhere else in the world, because the REST of the world does not belong to the Jews, and the Jews do not want the rest of the world. ONLY what has always belonged to them.  Their ancient homeland, out of which in 1925, 78% was illegally given by the British to ONE ARAB tribe, which was not indigenous of the land, but of Arabia.
(WHEN are you going to demand that the Hashemites go back to Arabia and Stop stealing Jewish Land?  Or that the other Arabs give back the most ancient and important Jewish land where most of their history happened?  Judea and Samaria.   Give us a hint. )

There have ALWAYS BEEN Jews living on that land since Judaism was introduced, no matter what the number was, no matter who the invaders were, as attested by EVERY HISTORICAL RECORD ever written.

BY YOUR SAME LOGIC, all the Arabs, and Turks, Berbers, etc
who lived in Spain and other parts of Europe, since the Muslim invasion in the 10th century are now to be considered EUROPEANS as well, having absolutely NO RIGHTS to any part of Arabia, or any part of North Africa, etc.
MAKE THEM ALL MOVE OUT, thank you.

The same goes to all of the people of India, who have left there, and moved to European and other continents.  They are not Indian anymore and can never call themselves that.  They are now Europeans, Americans, Australians.

Thank you for the lesson, all of the people of the world need to learn that once they leave their ancestral land, they can no LONGER be called by the name of the country or land.

If it is good for the GOOSE, it is good for ALL THE GANDER.
RIGHT  ????

WOW, WHAT A PATRIOTIC AMERICAN YOU ARE  !!!!

You know nothing about politics, about American interests in any part of the world (and the USA is involved all over the world) BUT
it is only THAT part of the world you would like to see the USA get their Billions away from, never mind what the consequences to the US AND the world would be.

Such knowledge, such kindness, such an ability to see the past, the present and the future of what would happen if the USA and its allies EVER did such a thing.


I know.  You are going to come back and repeat all of what you have  learned, except that conspiracy theories, as you believe them and come here to disseminate........are a very far cry of what is recorded in the real world.

The Jewish People, most of them descendant of the indigenous Jewish People in Ancient Canaan, have nothing to apologize for or return.  

They are on their ancient homeland, living on it and defending it just as their ancestors did before Roman times.

It was time for it to happen after WWI and the Jewish people achieved what the Christian and Muslim haters did not ever want to see happen.

THE JEWS WON over the Christian and Muslim hatred and re-created their ancient Nation ON THEIR ANCIENT HOMELAND.

The End.


----------



## JoeB131

Sixties Fan said:


> You have dragged just about every talking point the Christians and Muslims have invented about Israel and the Jews (Zionists) for the past 100 years.
> 
> CONGRATULATIONS !!!!
> 
> Israel just kills civilians, just like that?



Yup, they pretty much do.  That's when they aren't running over peace activisits with bulldozers... 

"Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, she was a pretty white girl!"  








Sixties Fan said:


> Your accusations have been totally debunked, but I am very sure that you will choose to go on believing whatever you feel like believing because YOU JUST HAVE THE RIGHT TO .



Again, even American liberal Jews are seeing the Zionist Entity as kind of an embarrasment, kind of like your crazy Uncle who screams about Hitler to your _Goyim _friends at your bat mitzvah. 

Zionism is predicated on a lie. The lie is "A land without a people for a people without a land".  But there were people on that land, and they weren't too keen on it. 



Sixties Fan said:


> Ha, CONSPIRACY THEORIES of Jews having A LOCK ON WASHINGTON.
> OOOOOOH, how evil. Iran, Turkey, Russia and many others have no "lock" on what they want to see happen out of the US.
> Only Israel, ONLY the Jews.



It's only a conspiracy if it is done in secret. AIPAC is pretty open about what it does.  I'm not familiar with a Turkish or Russian analog to AIPAC, are you?  

I'm not going to spend a lot of time on the rest of your angry rant, but make a few points. 



Sixties Fan said:


> There have ALWAYS BEEN Jews living on that land since Judaism was introduced, no matter what the number was, no matter who the invaders were, as attested by EVERY HISTORICAL RECORD ever written.



But they hadn't been the majority in Palestine between when Emperor Hadrian dispersed them until the British started resettling them in the 20th century.   And by then, they were a completely different people. They spoke Yiddish instead of Aramaic. Hebrew had to be resurrected from a dead language.  

It would be just as silly as if I learned to speak Cherokee and claimed that I am owed special rights in America because I have something in common with the people who lived here hundreds of years ago. 



Sixties Fan said:


> WOW, WHAT A PATRIOTIC AMERICAN YOU ARE !!!!



More patriotic than the chickenhawk politicians like Trump who do the bidding of the Zionists, yeah.  I actually served.  Didn't see a whole lot of Jews when I was in the Service... they must have all had other things to do.  



Sixties Fan said:


> THE JEWS WON over the Christian and Muslim hatred and re-created their ancient Nation ON THEIR ANCIENT HOMELAND.
> 
> The End.



One of these days, one of those Islamic Countries will get a nuke and then it REALLY WILL be the end.


----------



## Sixties Fan

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have dragged just about every talking point the Christians and Muslims have invented about Israel and the Jews (Zionists) for the past 100 years.
> 
> CONGRATULATIONS !!!!
> 
> Israel just kills civilians, just like that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, they pretty much do.  That's when they aren't running over peace activisits with bulldozers...
> 
> "Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, she was a pretty white girl!"
> 
> View attachment 229450
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your accusations have been totally debunked, but I am very sure that you will choose to go on believing whatever you feel like believing because YOU JUST HAVE THE RIGHT TO .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, even American liberal Jews are seeing the Zionist Entity as kind of an embarrasment, kind of like your crazy Uncle who screams about Hitler to your _Goyim _friends at your bat mitzvah.
> 
> Zionism is predicated on a lie. The lie is "A land without a people for a people without a land".  But there were people on that land, and they weren't too keen on it.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ha, CONSPIRACY THEORIES of Jews having A LOCK ON WASHINGTON.
> OOOOOOH, how evil. Iran, Turkey, Russia and many others have no "lock" on what they want to see happen out of the US.
> Only Israel, ONLY the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's only a conspiracy if it is done in secret. AIPAC is pretty open about what it does.  I'm not familiar with a Turkish or Russian analog to AIPAC, are you?
> 
> I'm not going to spend a lot of time on the rest of your angry rant, but make a few points.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> There have ALWAYS BEEN Jews living on that land since Judaism was introduced, no matter what the number was, no matter who the invaders were, as attested by EVERY HISTORICAL RECORD ever written.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But they hadn't been the majority in Palestine between when Emperor Hadrian dispersed them until the British started resettling them in the 20th century.   And by then, they were a completely different people. They spoke Yiddish instead of Aramaic. Hebrew had to be resurrected from a dead language.
> 
> It would be just as silly as if I learned to speak Cherokee and claimed that I am owed special rights in America because I have something in common with the people who lived here hundreds of years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, WHAT A PATRIOTIC AMERICAN YOU ARE !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More patriotic than the chickenhawk politicians like Trump who do the bidding of the Zionists, yeah.  I actually served.  Didn't see a whole lot of Jews when I was in the Service... they must have all had other things to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> THE JEWS WON over the Christian and Muslim hatred and re-created their ancient Nation ON THEIR ANCIENT HOMELAND.
> 
> The End.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One of these days, one of those Islamic Countries will get a nuke and then it REALLY WILL be the end.
Click to expand...

Thank you for proving once again that once one loses one's mind, there is no way of fixing it.

Rearrange facts all you like.  You prove that you are one of the many who insist in having the RIGHT to not only destroy Jewish History, but Israel's history and the history of all Jews on the planet at any time in history.

Thank you for totally outing yourself.


----------



## JoeB131

Sixties Fan said:


> hank you for proving once again that once one loses one's mind, there is no way of fixing it.
> 
> Rearrange facts all you like. You prove that you are one of the many who insist in having the RIGHT to not only destroy Jewish History, but Israel's history and the history of all Jews on the planet at any time in history.



When my five year old nephew screams "Why do you hate me!" when his mom makes him stand in the corner for a time out, it's kind of endearing. 

It's less endearing when a supposedly grown person responds to criticism like that. 

When the Zionists are wiped from the face of the earth, they'll have no one to blame but themselves.  I'm just the guy telling you that was a really stupid idea.


----------



## Sixties Fan

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> hank you for proving once again that once one loses one's mind, there is no way of fixing it.
> 
> Rearrange facts all you like. You prove that you are one of the many who insist in having the RIGHT to not only destroy Jewish History, but Israel's history and the history of all Jews on the planet at any time in history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When my five year old nephew screams "Why do you hate me!" when his mom makes him stand in the corner for a time out, it's kind of endearing.
> 
> It's less endearing when a supposedly grown person responds to criticism like that.
> 
> When the Zionists are wiped from the face of the earth, they'll have no one to blame but themselves.  I'm just the guy telling you that was a really stupid idea.
Click to expand...

And once again, and again, and again you are telling the world that the Jewish People have NO RIGHTS AT ALL under your Christian beliefs.

Because all you are vomiting on your posts are the Christian beliefs which have been adopted and practiced for the past 2000 years since a lame person invented Christianity for his own good feelings.

Feel good, go ahead, in the endless Christian fantasies you have on the demise of the Jewish people.

SHHHHH, do not tell yourself and do not ever understand that MOST Jewish people ARE Zionists ( Jews who want to have sovereignty and autonomy of their destinies ON their own ancient homeland)  , and therefore what you really want to see, as a Christian, is the demise of ALL JEWS.

Thank you so much for your wonderful Christian feelings.
Those feelings of brotherhood towards the Jewish people always come to the fore.

The Inquisition and the Holocaust brought absolutely the BEST in Christian brotherhood towards the Jewish people we shall ever see.

NOW, it is just another one of those times.


Let us ALL feel the LOVE emanating from Brother Joe.

Hallelujah !!!


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> And once again, and again, and again you are telling the world that the Jewish People have NO RIGHTS AT ALL under your Christian beliefs.
> 
> Because all you are vomiting on your posts are the Christian beliefs which have been adopted and practiced for the past 2000 years since a lame person invented Christianity for his own good feelings.
> 
> Feel good, go ahead, in the endless Christian fantasies you have on the demise of the Jewish people.
> 
> SHHHHH, do not tell yourself and do not ever understand that MOST Jewish people ARE Zionists ( Jews who want to have sovereignty and autonomy of their destinies ON their own ancient homeland)  , and therefore what you really want to see, as a Christian, is the demise of ALL JEWS.
> 
> Thank you so much for your wonderful Christian feelings.
> Those feelings of brotherhood towards the Jewish people always come to the fore.
> 
> The Inquisition and the Holocaust brought absolutely the BEST in Christian brotherhood towards the Jewish people we shall ever see.
> 
> NOW, it is just another one of those times.
> 
> 
> Let us ALL feel the LOVE emanating from Brother Joe.
> 
> Hallelujah !!!


Zionism is not Judaism.  And you do not have a right to treat Palestinians like garbage.  And looking at all the things you do to the Pals, you are effectively shitting on the memory of all those who lost their lives in the Holocaust.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> The fact that you disconnect the Jewish people's wish to live in and have self-determination in their own national homeland demonstrates the source of your arguments as anti-semitism.


Palestinians have the right to self-determination to.  And you have no right to keep that from them.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you disconnect the Jewish people's wish to live in and have self-determination in their own national homeland demonstrates the source of your arguments as anti-semitism.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians have the right to self-determination to.  And you have no right to keep that from them.
Click to expand...

Palestinians are Arab Muslims who only want Jews to live under them with no self determination, as they themselves have said many times for the past 100 years.

You are not going to change the truth which is...some Christans and Muslims are never going to accept that Jews have the same rights as they have, especially that of all determination on any part of their own ancient homeland.

Own up to it and it will be one step forward in your backward life.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  The Right To Destroy Jewish History
※→  JoeB131, et al,

You make some good points here.  But you cannot apply late 20th and early 21st Century logic and morals to → decisions and conditions of late 19th and early 20th Century political and economic conditions.  NOR can you try to apply Middle Eastern and Ottoman logic and morals → to decisions and conditions of late 19th and early 20th Century on decisions and political direction that must be made today.

Finally, the conditions and political umbrella the Arab Palestinians find themselves in today are NOT to be unexpected given their part in the civil conflict-induced in the early 20th Century ⇒ any more than you can say that one party or any that was involved in the strife of the times was right or wrong.

•  The Allied Powers, no matter how well intentioned and noble there actions may have been, their execution was piss-poor.
•  No matter how much the Arab Palestinians protest about how unfair, illegal, and immoral they have been treated, they are not blameless in the affairs and are very responsible for the conditions they find themselves in today.
•  And the Jewish population responsible for the ultimate creation and formation of the State of Israel were sure as hell not perfect.  No matter how just their cause, no matter how necessary their immigration may have been, their intorduction, transition and assimulation into the region was a bit heavy handed.​
Finally, the major powers _(political, militarily, and economically)_ have just made a complete mess of the entire situation.  The "Quartet" _(UN, the US, the EU, and the Russian Federation)_, nearly three decades old,  are the biggest bunch of bungles every assembled since the time of Caligula and the inept Roman Senate _(one of which was actually a horse)_.

None of the parties, no matter what their role, had clean hands.  Today, we see the general population of the Arab Palestinians, supporting → government endorsed terrorism, → political and economic corruption → , and wholesale attacks:

(a) which are not directed at a specific military objective;
(b) which employ a method or means of combat which cannot be directed at a specific military objective; or
(c) which employ a method or means of combat the effects of which cannot be limited as required by international humanitarian law;
(d) and consequently, in each such case, are of a nature to strike military objectives and civilians or civilian objects without distinction.​No general population can have a half-century old past history of criminal behaviors on an international scale, including:

•  the seizure and control of that commercial aircraft,
•  the unlawfully act of violence against a person on board an aircraft in flight,
•  the seizure and control of that ships at sea,
•  the unlawfully act of violence against a person on board ships at sea,
•  the murder, kidnapping or another attack upon the protected person,
•  a violent attack upon the official person or premises, the private accommodations, or the means of transport of diplomatic personnel;
•  the use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
•  the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
etc, etc, etc ψ​
And in having such an extended history, of continuous attacks and assaults, there is no way that the Arab Palestinians may claim the status of "victim."  Nothing the Arab Palestinians might present can justify terrorism — ever.  No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts.  _(SG/SM/14764-SC/10883)_



JoeB131 said:


> Okay, let's try again.. Why is it more civilized to drop bombs on women and children with planes than it is to just set off a bomb you strapped to someone.


*(COMMENT)*

Because there is no grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts.  As such, the threat or use of force by the Arab Palestinians against the territorial integrity and political independence of Israel.  Israel has the inherent right of self-defense if an armed attack by the Arab Palestinians occurs.

WHEN the Arab Palestinians fail to comply with international law and civilian casualties occur, THEN the Arab Palestinians, both the general population and the government installed by the Arab Palestinian, are responsible for the deaths incurred during attacks necessary to destroy hostile enemy personnel and material.  Some of the more frequent infractions that draw fire and targeting include, but are not limited to:

•  the Arab Palestinian MUST, avoid locating legitimate military targets within or near densely populated areas. or other protected activities.
•  the Arab Palestinian, to the extent feasible, MUST remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity from which they conduct military operations against the Israelis.
•  the Arab Palestinian MAY NOT utilize the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations”​
I could write a whole book on this subject.  But your implication that Israel, with the clear intent to drop bombs on women and children, is simply a false representation of the facts.

•  Israeli attacks which result in the incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, area done to achieve a concrete and direct military advantage or in self-defense.

•  Your example of a "bomb you strapped to someone" is the deliberate targeting of:
■  launching an indiscriminate attack affecting the civilian population or civilian objects in the knowledge that such attack will cause excessive loss of life, injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects,
■  the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.​
There is no legitimate comparison you can make.  An air strike against a legitimate military target embedded in the civilian population is entirely different from a suicide bomber walking up to a restaurant, school bus, or street market.

If you cannot make that distinction, then I'm at a loss for words.



JoeB131 said:


> Again the corrupt and bullying treaties imposed on the Central Powers after WWI don't mean a whole lot to me. Most historians agree that these were terrible, mean-spirited treaties that made WWII inevitable.
> 
> The Allies tried to carve up the Ottoman Empire to exploit its resources, and they saw resettling Jews into Palestine as a way to do imperialism by proxy, with the added benefit of getting rid of the Jews because, hey, nobody really liked them anyway.


*(COMMENT)*

And so, maybe some of this is true.  This is how things were handled a 100 years ago.  Things evolve over time.  what was acceptable then, may not be acceptable now.



JoeB131 said:


> Um yeah, stealing land is always wrong. If the British hadn't settled them there, do you think Europe's Jews would have ever taken Palestine on their own?


*(COMMENT)*

Hypothetical questions are irrelevant.  Today, we have to look at the reality and apply what measures we can to patch the wholes.




JoeB131 said:


> The ironic thing was that the Islamic World before 1948 was more welcoming to the Jewish people than Christian Europe... until they screwed them and stole Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

The Islamic World is a much bigger construct than the Arab world or the Arab Palestinian World.  Yes, the Ottoman Empire took a protective stance in favor of the Jews.  But that is not the same as the early religious leaders such as Izz ad-Din al-Qassam, a Syrian Muslim clergyman and found of the Palestinian Black Hand.  And it certainly doesn't include the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Mohammed Amin al-Husseini, an agitator and NAZI collaberator



JoeB131 said:


> Here's the thing. The Arabs are more Semitic that the European Zionists are, so my problem is not being "anti-Semitic".  Given my druthers, America would pull out of the region, stop supporting either side and mind our own business instead of playing Hall Monitor of the Middle East. If they want to pound the shit out of each other over who a magic sky fairy promised some land to, have at it. So not my problem.


*(COMMENT)*

Your observation has some merit.  But you've unnecessarily narrowed the definition and meaning of the phrase "anti-Semitic." 

Certainly, American Isolationism from the Middle East was once an option.  But it is not now.  Israel's contribution to the world not only dwarfs that of the Arab Palestinians, but most of the Arab League _(research and development, scientific and technical, industry and commercial, and other niche markets)_.  No one wants to see the demise of  Israel in favor of another substandard and stagnant Arab State.  that serves no useful purpose. 



JoeB131 said:


> But when we get dragged into war after war over there because of the Zionists and the lock they have on Washington, then it kind of becomes my problem.  I would love to take the billions of dollars we spend propping up Zionism and use it to help Americans.


*(COMMENT)*

I am trying to think of what war the US is fighting for the "Zionist."  While many people, mostly the ill-educated, find it convenient to blame the Israelis, and the Jews in general, for the American involvement in regional conflicts, it is ludicrous to think Israel (Zionists) was the cause.  That is grasping at straws. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> And once again, and again, and again you are telling the world that the Jewish People have NO RIGHTS AT ALL under your Christian beliefs.
> 
> Because all you are vomiting on your posts are the Christian beliefs which have been adopted and practiced for the past 2000 years since a lame person invented Christianity for his own good feelings.
> 
> Feel good, go ahead, in the endless Christian fantasies you have on the demise of the Jewish people.
> 
> SHHHHH, do not tell yourself and do not ever understand that MOST Jewish people ARE Zionists ( Jews who want to have sovereignty and autonomy of their destinies ON their own ancient homeland)  , and therefore what you really want to see, as a Christian, is the demise of ALL JEWS.
> 
> Thank you so much for your wonderful Christian feelings.
> Those feelings of brotherhood towards the Jewish people always come to the fore.
> 
> The Inquisition and the Holocaust brought absolutely the BEST in Christian brotherhood towards the Jewish people we shall ever see.
> 
> NOW, it is just another one of those times.
> 
> 
> Let us ALL feel the LOVE emanating from Brother Joe.
> 
> Hallelujah !!!
> 
> 
> 
> Zionism is not Judaism.  And you do not have a right to treat Palestinians like garbage.  And looking at all the things you do to the Pals, you are effectively shitting on the memory of all those who lost their lives in the Holocaust.
Click to expand...


Zionism is definitely an integral part of Judaism and Jewish history.
And in fact eradicating those who put the Swastika on their flag is the only rational response by the descendants of the Holocaust survivors.


----------



## rylah

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> hank you for proving once again that once one loses one's mind, there is no way of fixing it.
> 
> Rearrange facts all you like. You prove that you are one of the many who insist in having the RIGHT to not only destroy Jewish History, but Israel's history and the history of all Jews on the planet at any time in history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When my five year old nephew screams "Why do you hate me!" when his mom makes him stand in the corner for a time out, it's kind of endearing.
> 
> It's less endearing when a supposedly grown person responds to criticism like that.
> 
> When the Zionists are wiped from the face of the earth, they'll have no one to blame but themselves.  I'm just the guy telling you that was a really stupid idea.
Click to expand...


_*"When Zionists are wiped" *_- is the same ol' story we've been hearing for the last 2000 years, and the exact reasoning behind re-constitution of a Jewish state. You guys, had 2000 years to try, failed every time, and every empire that tried went to the dustbin of history.

The Darwin Award goes to the degenerate Jew-haters who can't seem to get the lesson.


----------



## danielpalos

Other than objections covered by our First Amendment, why do alleged Judeans get the blame?


----------



## JoeB131

Sixties Fan said:


> And once again, and again, and again you are telling the world that the Jewish People have NO RIGHTS AT ALL under your Christian beliefs.
> 
> Because all you are vomiting on your posts are the Christian beliefs which have been adopted and practiced for the past 2000 years since a lame person invented Christianity for his own good feelings.



Pay attention here, I'm an atheist.  Nothing to me is stupider than someone saying "I have a right to do something because God said so."  



Sixties Fan said:


> SHHHHH, do not tell yourself and do not ever understand that MOST Jewish people ARE Zionists ( Jews who want to have sovereignty and autonomy of their destinies ON their own ancient homeland) , and therefore what you really want to see, as a Christian, is the demise of ALL JEWS.



Then why aren't the 9 million jews in America moving there?  Or the ones that are still in Europe. It seems that if theywere all soo keen on the whole thing, they'd all move in next door to the crazy people who want to kill them for stealing their land. 

Again, i you are stupid enough to steal someone else's land and THEN wonder why he wants to kill you for it, that's SOOOO not my problem.  

The Christians have, of course, contributed to the problem because Israel's biggest supporters are not liberal American Jews who realize that some kind of agreement would be in everyone's best interest, but conservative Christians who want Israel so Jay-a-zus can come back.  

Jesus ain't coming back and I'm really not keen on risking nuclear war because you dipshits want to pretend the Imaginary Sky Pixie loves you best.  



Sixties Fan said:


> The Inquisition and the Holocaust brought absolutely the BEST in Christian brotherhood towards the Jewish people we shall ever see.



The inquistion happened because the Jews collaborated with the Muslim occupiers..  can't get worked up about that.  

The Holocaust actually was a bad thing, but not an excuse for equally bad Zionist behavior.  Again, if you want a chunk of Germany, I'm good with that.


----------



## JoeB131

RoccoR said:


> Because there is no grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts. As such, the threat or use of force by the Arab Palestinians against the territorial integrity and political independence of Israel. Israel has the inherent right of self-defense if an armed attack by the Arab Palestinians occurs.



Sure there is... One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.  

When Osama Bin Laden was killing Russians in Afghanistan before the could teach girls how to read, Ronnie Ray-gun called him a "Freedom Fighter".  When he turned around and started killing Americans, he became a "Terrorist".  Terrorism isn't a philosophy, it's a tactic.  A tactic we are just fine with when used against people we don't like, 



RoccoR said:


> I am trying to think of what war the US is fighting for the "Zionist." While many people, mostly the ill-educated, find it convenient to blame the Israelis, and the Jews in general, for the American involvement in regional conflicts, it is ludicrous to think Israel (Zionists) was the cause. That is grasping at straws.



Bullshit.  Look who instigated the Iraq War.. hint, it was a bunch of Jews in Washington.  Every last one of our allies told us it was a terrible idea, but Mr. Jew wanted Saddam gone, and we have been involved in that mess ever since.


----------



## Sixties Fan

JoeB131 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because there is no grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts. As such, the threat or use of force by the Arab Palestinians against the territorial integrity and political independence of Israel. Israel has the inherent right of self-defense if an armed attack by the Arab Palestinians occurs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure there is... One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
> 
> When Osama Bin Laden was killing Russians in Afghanistan before the could teach girls how to read, Ronnie Ray-gun called him a "Freedom Fighter".  When he turned around and started killing Americans, he became a "Terrorist".  Terrorism isn't a philosophy, it's a tactic.  A tactic we are just fine with when used against people we don't like,
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am trying to think of what war the US is fighting for the "Zionist." While many people, mostly the ill-educated, find it convenient to blame the Israelis, and the Jews in general, for the American involvement in regional conflicts, it is ludicrous to think Israel (Zionists) was the cause. That is grasping at straws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  Look who instigated the Iraq War.. hint, it was a bunch of Jews in Washington.  Every last one of our allies told us it was a terrible idea, but Mr. Jew wanted Saddam gone, and we have been involved in that mess ever since.
Click to expand...

Good for you that you are an Atheist !!!!
The hundreds or thousands, or Millions of Atheists who come from the same world, god or no god, of defaming and feeling the need to put the Jews in their places.

Again, Congratulations !!!!

It is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS where Jews, Indians, Kurds, or any other people has decided to move to in the world, at any time in history.  But you absolutely MUST make it your RIGHT to tell Jews were they should be.


PSST !!!!!
There are 6 (Six) Million Jews living in the USA, and not your 9 (Nine) Million which maybe seem to tell you that the Jews have 'Invaded" America and are in charge of it, and not the same ol' European invader conquerors of the past five centuries.  

Why should ALL Jews move to Israel from America, Europe, Australia, etc, when it gives the murderers of Christian and Muslim origin an excuse and a chance to kill them over there, as it has always been done.
In Europe, in Africa, in Asia, in Australia, wherever there have been Jews in the past 2000 years of European Christian and Arabian or Turkish invasions there have been murders of Jews.  
They have been known throughout history as massacres, forced conversions, pogroms, Inquisitions, and more pogroms and that icing on the cake.......
The Holocaust.

Why in the world are you trying to spoil the fun of Christians and Muslims who love to murder Jews from having any Jews near them so that they can then follow their dreams?

The Jews did not steal any Arab land.  Call them Palestinians, Lebanese, Syrian, Egyptian, or whatever those Arab have chosen to call themselves.

Land conquered by the Arabs from the Jews, is still and always has been Jewish land.  The Muslims themselves acknowledge that in their holy books, after they invaded and conquered the land.
Today's Arab Muslims "Palestinians" want any of that forgotten so that they can demand the land for them.

WHERE were those Arabs during the 600 years of Ottoman Turkish conquest and domination?

As QUIET as a mouse.

Oh, now we can see what your problem is.

FEAR.   FEAR.   FEAR.

Your incredible brain does not acknowledge who in the world has Nuclear capability, so....from what you have read in your conspiracy theory sites, Israel is going to cause a NUCLEAR WAR and you.....

ARE NOT READY TO DIE,  YET !!!

And you would not care to die for any Jewish rights to defend themselves against Iran or any other Muslim country which might get that nuclear capability and dump it on Israel. 

 The whole population, Jews and non Jews thank you for your genius and absolute and total cowardice.

What you FAIL to realize is that the US, Israel, India and other GOOD countries, have nuclear capability as a DETERRENCE against the BAD  GUYS, just as the good USA had to rush to get Nuclear power ahead of the BAD Nazis.

Do you have any idea what the world would be like today if the Nazis had won the war with Nuclear capability?
Any idea what the world will be like if Iran acquires Nuclear capability?

What, you are not going to waste your time thinking about it, because it is all about  Israel and the Jews !!!!!   ?????


"
The inquistion happened because the Jews collaborated with the Muslim occupiers.. can't get worked up about that. 

The Holocaust actually was a bad thing, but not an excuse for equally bad Zionist behavior. Again, if you want a chunk of Germany, I'm good with that.
The inquistion happened because the Jews collaborated with the Muslim occupiers.. can't get worked up about that. "


PURE  CONSPIRACY THEORY  sites garbage.

The Christians of the Inquisition never need an excuse to kill or force the Jews to convert.  It was all about their belief that the Jews had to convert for Jesus to return, added to any economic or any other local disaster which has always happened everywhere in the world, but the ignorant extreme Christians did not know that, and had to use the Jews as sacrifice for the bad things to stop.
How original of them.

The Holocaust killed 12 Million Jews and non Jews.  It was not a separate thing, but an excuse to murder all Jews in the world, aided by the Extremist Muslims of Asia who wanted to see all the Jews there also forever gone.

That is the final intent, the "final solution" for one group, and only one group of people as the extreme Christians, Muslims and Atheists continue to dream in their private homes.

NO THANKS  !!!

And a HUGE NO to your fallacy of:

"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"  which you also got from your favorite conspiracy theory sites and books, and any one you ever heard that from.

So, are you telling us TRULLY that the Nazis were Freedom Fighters?
Or that Arafat in Lebanon and Jordan were Freedom Fighters?
The Russians taking over Crimea are Freedom Fighters ?
China taking over Tibet, the Chinese are Freedom Fighters?
The Turks taking over the north of Cyprus, the Turks are Freedom fighters to this day just as all the other two above?

Osama Bin Laden was a Yemenite whose family moved to Arabia after the Saudi Family took the land from the Hashemites.

So, for you to call a Yemenite Saudi Arabian who is fighting in Afghanistan to get rid of the Russians (Why bother with the Russians in Afghanistan when it was not Bin Laden's country? ), just as he attacked the US in order for them to leave Saudi Arabia, when they were there at the interest of the Saudi house........

See how you are dreaming?

And your last paragraph ......more from the conspiracy theory sites you read.

I won't even go into it, it does not matter, except that you have to put any and ALL 
blame of EVERYTHING   ........_on the Jews_......

Do you have any more conspiracy theories to dish?

If so, there is a whole thread or even a community dedicated to it on this site, and that is where your posts belong.

You have absolutely NO RUGHT to attempt to change history and fit it with your endless conspiracy theories and pathetic fears of what has not happen, and especially of what will not happen.

And most of all you have NO RIGHT to continuously attempt to DESTROY 

JEWISH HISTORY.


No one is ever going to be able to achieve that horrible intent, now or ever.


----------



## Shusha

JoeB131 said:


> The point is, that hadn't been their homeland for thousands of years, and just because some Europeans happen to share a bastardized version of the religion of the people who lived their 3000 years ago just doesn't mean that much to me.



And THANK YOU for proving my point.  Again, your claim is based upon disconnecting the Jewish people from that land which is their homeland and has always been their homeland.  In order for your foundation belief to have any meaning whatsoever you have to reject any relationship between the Jewish people and their origins on that territory. You disconnect them in a variety of ways:

1.  The Jewish people haven't lived there for thousands of years.
2.  The Jewish people aren't the same people who originated on that homeland -- they are just Europeans.
3.  The Jewish people aren't the same people who originated on that homeland, proven by their "bastardized" religion.
4.  (implied) The Jewish people no longer exist.
5.  The Jewish people don't matter to me.  

You erase the Jewish people and replace them with another, separate distinct people so that you can maintain the illusion of being "fair" or "objective", but all you have created is an elaborate mental justification for denying the Jewish people the same standards you would apply to other people.  

And we can readily tell it is a mental justification by that fact that, by any standard of measurement you care to use, the Jewish people are the same people as those who have been present on the territory for more than three thousand years.  They share the same language, the same religion, the same prayers, the same life celebrations, the same history, the same texts, the same system of laws, the same rituals, the same clothing.  

The source of your elaborate construction is anti-semitism.

And on top of ALL that, and assuming you are an American of European descent living in the US, do you support and encourage the First Nations Peoples of the Americas in violently resisting you and regaining their territory back?  If this is not your objective standard for all peoples, but only applied to the special case of the Arab Palestinians, then the source of this is also anti-semitism.



> Why did the British promise Palestine to the Jews during World War I ...


  The British recognized the existing right of the Jewish people to their national homeland.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you disconnect the Jewish people's wish to live in and have self-determination in their own national homeland demonstrates the source of your arguments as anti-semitism.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians have the right to self-determination to.  And you have no right to keep that from them.
Click to expand...


No one is preventing them from having self-determination.  Israel is only preventing them from having the sort of self-determination which is eliminationist and violent towards Israel.  Israel is entirely justified in doing so.

If the Arab Palestinians want full self-determination in more territory than they already have, they must stop attacking their neighbor and recognize their neighbors existence and equal right to territory and self-determination.  The way through to that is peace.  

I know that you are going to argue that the Arab Palestinians have every right to use force and violence.  I agree.  They do.  (In fact, I'd argue that their use of force and violence in belligerent attacks on the sovereign country of Israel is PROOF of their existing self-determination.)  The consequences of that use of force and violence is repression of force and violence by Israel.  

If they want to use their self-determination for building an economy, for trade, for peaceful relations, for mutual benefit then they should get on with it.  

And I know you are going to argue next some version of "Jews are evil" and "Arabs are just responding to Jewish evil".  That is just your antisemitism showing.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: The Right To Destroy Jewish History
※→  JoeB131, et al,






JoeB131 said:


> Sure there is... One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
> 
> When Osama Bin Laden was killing Russians in Afghanistan before the could teach girls how to read, Ronnie Ray-gun called him a "Freedom Fighter".  When he turned around and started killing Americans, he became a "Terrorist".  Terrorism isn't a philosophy, it's a tactic.  A tactic we are just fine with when used against people we don't like,


*(COMMENT)*

We are not here to debate whether or not a person like Osama bin Laden (ObL) or Arab Palestinians _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)_  who takes part in these activities is there a justification.  There is no case to support:

✪  "Criminal acts" directed against the citizenry and general public of US or Israel, intented or calculated to create the condition of "terror" appear to be intended—

■  to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
■  to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
■  to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping;​.......................................................................OR
✪  Resistance movement against Occupation Power:

■   Cases that were solely intended to harm the Occupying Power,
■   Cases of seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them,
■   Cases of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power,​All these activities _(both above and below)_ are punishable under international law.

Being involved in any way is just as criminal:

✪  Conspiricy to commit any such act with the intend to spread terror among the civilian population.
✪  Any incitement _(direct or indirect)_ to induce any such act.
✪  Participation in any such act.
✪  Assistance given towards the commission of any such act.​



JoeB131 said:


> Bullshit.  Look who instigated the Iraq War.. hint, it was a bunch of Jews in Washington.  Every last one of our allies told us it was a terrible idea, but Mr. Jew wanted Saddam gone, and we have been involved in that mess ever since.


*(COMMENT)*

The Iraq War (2003-2011) was a matter of nuclear weapons, delivery systems, and contraband.  "Mr. Jew" _(as you name the faceless)_ had nothing to do with is.  The availability of a  launch vehicle, programmable navigation system, medium-range ballistic missile (MRBM) delivery platform to Iraq would have been a threat to all the regional governments.

Whether or not it was a "terrible idea" is not for us to say _(although I might be inclined to agree)_, it was executed very poorly. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Palestinians are Arab Muslims who only want Jews to live under them with no self determination, as they themselves have said many times for the past 100 years.
> 
> You are not going to change the truth which is...some Christans and Muslims are never going to accept that Jews have the same rights as they have, especially that of all determination on any part of their own ancient homeland.
> 
> Own up to it and it will be one step forward in your backward life.


Are you paid to say that garbage?


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> Zionism is definitely an integral part of Judaism and Jewish history.


No its not.  Judaism is a religion; Zionism is a political movement.



rylah said:


> And in fact eradicating those who put the Swastika on their flag is the only rational response by the descendants of the Holocaust survivors.


Not when they are acting like the ones who had the Swastika's on their flag.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> No its not.  Judaism is a religion; Zionism is a political movement.



The Jewish people, which represent a vast and comprehensive and ancient culture of which religion is only a part, have formed a liberation movement.  Its no different than dozens of other liberation movements.  Except only the Jewish people are subjected to having their liberation movement rejected on principle.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> No one is preventing them from having self-determination.  Israel is only preventing them from having the sort of self-determination which is eliminationist and violent towards Israel.  Israel is entirely justified in doing so.


Do you listen to yourself talk?  

_"...*No one is preventing them* from having self-determination..."

"...*Israel is only preventing them* from having the sort of self-determination..."_​
You are a walking paradox of nonsense.



Shusha said:


> If the Arab Palestinians want full self-determination in more territory than they already have, they must stop attacking their neighbor and recognize their neighbors existence and equal right to territory and self-determination.  The way through to that is peace.


You're starting the clock in the wrong place.  You attacked them first!  And you need to recognize their existence, before they recognize yours.



Shusha said:


> I know that you are going to argue that the Arab Palestinians have every right to use force and violence.  I agree.  They do.  (In fact, I'd argue that their use of force and violence in belligerent attacks on the sovereign country of Israel is PROOF of their existing self-determination.)  The consequences of that use of force and violence is repression of force and violence by Israel.


The West Bank and Gaza is not sovereign Israeli territory.



Shusha said:


> If they want to use their self-determination for building an economy, for trade, for peaceful relations, for mutual benefit then they should get on with it.


You can't build an economy when Israel won't allow imports and exports.



Shusha said:


> And I know you are going to argue next some version of "Jews are evil" and "Arabs are just responding to Jewish evil".  That is just your antisemitism showing.


If you didn't drag the Jews into this, you'd have nothing to say.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> The Jewish people, which represent a vast and comprehensive and ancient culture of which religion is only a part, have formed a liberation movement.  Its no different than dozens of other liberation movements.  Except only the Jewish people are subjected to having their liberation movement rejected on principle.


You just keep making shit up because you can't bear to face the alternative, that you made the bed you are sleeping in.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people, which represent a vast and comprehensive and ancient culture of which religion is only a part, have formed a liberation movement.  Its no different than dozens of other liberation movements.  Except only the Jewish people are subjected to having their liberation movement rejected on principle.
> 
> 
> 
> You just keep making shit up because you can't bear to face the alternative, that you made the bed you are sleeping in.
Click to expand...


I'm making up the idea of a Jewish liberation movement?


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one is preventing them from having self-determination.  Israel is only preventing them from having the sort of self-determination which is eliminationist and violent towards Israel.  Israel is entirely justified in doing so.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you listen to yourself talk?
> 
> _"...*No one is preventing them* from having self-determination..."
> 
> "...*Israel is only preventing them* from having the sort of self-determination..."_​
> You are a walking paradox of nonsense.
Click to expand...


I know EXACTLY what I am saying.  And so do you.  And there is no contradiction or paradox here.  Self-determination of both peoples is the point.  

If the self-determination of the Arab Palestinians requires the elimination of Jewish self-determination in their own historic homeland then that Arab self-determination has to be restricted to where it won't harm Jewish self-determination.  

No one is preventing the sort of self-determination of the Arab Palestinians which celebrates an equal and respected Jewish self-determination.  The problem is that the Arab Palestinians haven't found that yet.  They should get on it.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> You're starting the clock in the wrong place.  You attacked them first!  And you need to recognize their existence, before they recognize yours.



You are keeping the clock in the wrong place. With assumed mutual recognition (Israel's demonstrated by her withdrawal, Hamas' not demonstrated at all yet), there is no conflict between Gaza and Israel.  Be clear.  There IS NO fundamental conflict between Israel and Gaza if the assumption is that Gaza is the place for the self-determination of the Gazan people and Israel is the place for the self-determination of the Jewish people.  The territory of each is defined and agreed upon.  The border is clear and defined an agreed upon.  There is nothing to fight about.  Literally, NOTHING to fight about.  

Gaza wants the blockade to end.  Israel wants the violence across her borders to end.  BOTH people can have what they want.  The only obstacle to having what they want is the end of violence.  The end of violence and "resistance" is the solution to the problem for both peoples.  

So what does that look like in real life?  It does not mean that Israel stops monitoring and responding.  It means Gaza stops inciting and instigating.  No more resistance.  No more protests.  No more rockets.  No more approaching the fence.  No fishing outside the zones.  It means Gaza just stopping the violence.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> You can't build an economy when Israel won't allow imports and exports.



Patently not true.  But...

How do you "get" Israel to allow imports and exports?  Here's an idea.  How about peace?


----------



## JoeB131

Sixties Fan said:


> Good for you that you are an Atheist !!!!
> The hundreds or thousands, or Millions of Atheists who come from the same world, god or no god, of defaming and feeling the need to put the Jews in their places.
> 
> Again, Congratulations !!!!
> 
> It is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS where Jews, Indians, Kurds, or any other people has decided to move to in the world, at any time in history. But you absolutely MUST make it your RIGHT to tell Jews were they should be.



Well, yeah, when the Jews insist the rest of us need to subsidize their religious fantasies and ask that American boys come home in body bags so they can play "God Loves Me the Very Best", it really is my business to say no. 



Sixties Fan said:


> Land conquered by the Arabs from the Jews, is still and always has been Jewish land. The Muslims themselves acknowledge that in their holy books, after they invaded and conquered the land.
> Today's Arab Muslims "Palestinians" want any of that forgotten so that they can demand the land for them.



Um. No. Here's what happened.  The Jews were just ONE GROUP that lived on that land, who were a constant pain the ass for the Romans until the Romans got sick of their shit and dispersed them. The Arabs have lived there for 1500 years.... except when dealing with the occasional crusaders..

That some Europeans who've bought into the religion that used to be practiced there doesn't really give them a right to that land. 



Shusha said:


> You erase the Jewish people and replace them with another, separate distinct people so that you can maintain the illusion of being "fair" or "objective", but all you have created is an elaborate mental justification for denying the Jewish people the same standards you would apply to other people.



They are a distinct people. They don't speak Aramaic, they don't practice the religion the way the people in the first century did. They practice a version of it which are just as bastardized as Christianity and Islam are.  



Shusha said:


> And on top of ALL that, and assuming you are an American of European descent living in the US, do you support and encourage the First Nations Peoples of the Americas in violently resisting you and regaining their territory back? If this is not your objective standard for all peoples, but only applied to the special case of the Arab Palestinians, then the source of this is also anti-semitism.



I think America has a lot of racial problems to fix... the people we stole land from, the people we kidnapped to work the land so we didn't have to... and you know what, if you read my writing on other threads about these issues, I think those things should be fixed.  

All that said, these things happened centuries ago... there has to be a time limit on them.  



Shusha said:


> And we can readily tell it is a mental justification by that fact that, by any standard of measurement you care to use, the Jewish people are the same people as those who have been present on the territory for more than three thousand years. They share the same language, the same religion, the same prayers, the same life celebrations, the same history, the same texts, the same system of laws, the same rituals, the same clothing.



Except they don't.  They spoke Yiddish, a corrupt version of German, before moving to Palestine.  They don't stone their daughters for not being virgins. They tolerate homosexuals.  If you want to use religious excuses, frankly, the Muslims are closer to following the (barbaric) laws of Moses than the Jews are.


----------



## JoeB131

RoccoR said:


> We are not here to debate whether or not a person like Osama bin Laden (ObL) or Arab Palestinians _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)_ who takes part in these activities is there a justification. There is no case to support:





RoccoR said:


> All these activities _(both above and below)_ are punishable under international law.
> 
> Being involved in any way is just as criminal:



Again, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. You don't think that organized armies do things that are downright criminal?  We killed 3 million Vietnamese, and not one of our leaders got arrested for a war crime.  Lt. Calley spent one year under house arrest, and that was it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good for you that you are an Atheist !!!!
> The hundreds or thousands, or Millions of Atheists who come from the same world, god or no god, of defaming and feeling the need to put the Jews in their places.
> 
> Again, Congratulations !!!!
> 
> It is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS where Jews, Indians, Kurds, or any other people has decided to move to in the world, at any time in history. But you absolutely MUST make it your RIGHT to tell Jews were they should be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yeah, when the Jews insist the rest of us need to subsidize their religious fantasies and ask that American boys come home in body bags so they can play "God Loves Me the Very Best", it really is my business to say no.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Land conquered by the Arabs from the Jews, is still and always has been Jewish land. The Muslims themselves acknowledge that in their holy books, after they invaded and conquered the land.
> Today's Arab Muslims "Palestinians" want any of that forgotten so that they can demand the land for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um. No. Here's what happened.  The Jews were just ONE GROUP that lived on that land, who were a constant pain the ass for the Romans until the Romans got sick of their shit and dispersed them. The Arabs have lived there for 1500 years.... except when dealing with the occasional crusaders..
> 
> That some Europeans who've bought into the religion that used to be practiced there doesn't really give them a right to that land.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You erase the Jewish people and replace them with another, separate distinct people so that you can maintain the illusion of being "fair" or "objective", but all you have created is an elaborate mental justification for denying the Jewish people the same standards you would apply to other people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are a distinct people. They don't speak Aramaic, they don't practice the religion the way the people in the first century did. They practice a version of it which are just as bastardized as Christianity and Islam are.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And on top of ALL that, and assuming you are an American of European descent living in the US, do you support and encourage the First Nations Peoples of the Americas in violently resisting you and regaining their territory back? If this is not your objective standard for all peoples, but only applied to the special case of the Arab Palestinians, then the source of this is also anti-semitism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think America has a lot of racial problems to fix... the people we stole land from, the people we kidnapped to work the land so we didn't have to... and you know what, if you read my writing on other threads about these issues, I think those things should be fixed.
> 
> All that said, these things happened centuries ago... there has to be a time limit on them.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And we can readily tell it is a mental justification by that fact that, by any standard of measurement you care to use, the Jewish people are the same people as those who have been present on the territory for more than three thousand years. They share the same language, the same religion, the same prayers, the same life celebrations, the same history, the same texts, the same system of laws, the same rituals, the same clothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except they don't.  They spoke Yiddish, a corrupt version of German, before moving to Palestine.  They don't stone their daughters for not being virgins. They tolerate homosexuals.  If you want to use religious excuses, frankly, the Muslims are closer to following the (barbaric) laws of Moses than the Jews are.
Click to expand...

Your conspiracy theories are flying off the shelves.

There are no American troops fighting in Israel FOR Israel and coming home in body bags. 

It is funny that you continue to insist in the Jewish people being "dispersed" from their home by the Romans, when the Byzantine found plenty of Jews living there AFTER the Roman Empire crumbled and they took over, and so did the Muslim Kurds and then the Arabs when they invaded in the 7th century.

See what keeps flying off the shelves from your mind?
I would change stores and get better products for your own sake.

Never mind the rest of the spoiled or broken merchandise you insist in trying to sell here.


----------



## JoeB131

Sixties Fan said:


> Your conspiracy theories are flying off the shelves.
> 
> There are no American troops fighting in Israel FOR Israel and coming home in body bags.



Right. So all those wars we've been fighting in the Middle East for the last 30 years... those were figments of our imaginations. 

Funny, we never fought wars in the Middle East before the Zionists took over our government.  



Sixties Fan said:


> It is funny that you continue to insist in the Jewish people being "dispersed" from their home by the Romans, when the Byzantine found plenty of Jews living there AFTER the Roman Empire crumbled and they took over, and so did the Muslim Kurds and then the Arabs when they invaded in the 7th century.



Then why were they all in Europe after that..  speaking a European language?


----------



## rylah

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your conspiracy theories are flying off the shelves.
> 
> There are no American troops fighting in Israel FOR Israel and coming home in body bags.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right. So all those wars we've been fighting in the Middle East for the last 30 years... those were figments of our imaginations.
> 
> Funny, we never fought wars in the Middle East before the Zionists took over our government.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is funny that you continue to insist in the Jewish people being "dispersed" from their home by the Romans, when the Byzantine found plenty of Jews living there AFTER the Roman Empire crumbled and they took over, and so did the Muslim Kurds and then the Arabs when they invaded in the 7th century.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why were they all in Europe after that..  speaking a European language?
Click to expand...

Jews lived in European countries even before the Roman genocide,
while majority of Israelis are descendants of Jews from the Arab countries.

You should do a research on how American navy used to pay "protection" fees to Muslim racketeers in the seas.


----------



## JoeB131

rylah said:


> Jews lived in European countries even before the Roman genocide,
> while majority of Israelis are descendants of Jews from the Arab countries.
> 
> Ironically, You should do a research on how American navy used to pay "protection" fees to Muslim racketeers in the seas.



Excatly, we didn't go over there for 30 years trying to change them or "bring democracy" or any of the other shit.  When they wouldn't take an honest bribe, we sent ships over to slap them around and we left.  

But again, this was before the Zionists took over our government and insisted that we treat the Zionist Entity like the 51st State.


----------



## Hollie

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your conspiracy theories are flying off the shelves.
> 
> There are no American troops fighting in Israel FOR Israel and coming home in body bags.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right. So all those wars we've been fighting in the Middle East for the last 30 years... those were figments of our imaginations.
> 
> Funny, we never fought wars in the Middle East before the Zionists took over our government.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is funny that you continue to insist in the Jewish people being "dispersed" from their home by the Romans, when the Byzantine found plenty of Jews living there AFTER the Roman Empire crumbled and they took over, and so did the Muslim Kurds and then the Arabs when they invaded in the 7th century.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why were they all in Europe after that..  speaking a European language?
Click to expand...


We never fought wars in the Middle East before the “Zionist takeover”?

Your sweaty, feverish Jew rants are asclaughably inept as your understanding of history.

Quite clearly, islamists have been at war with us since at least 1801. Barbary Coast wars, anyone?

Marine fight song: "From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli"


----------



## JoeB131

Hollie said:


> We never fought wars in the Middle East before the “Zionist takeover”?
> 
> Your sweaty, feverish Jew rants are asclaughably inept as your understanding of history.
> 
> Quite clearly, islamists have been at war with us since at least 1801. Barbary Coast wars, anyone?
> 
> Marine fight song: "From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli"



Yawn.. because it rhymed with "Sea", not because it was all that important to us. 

So we send one small expedition once, and then we didn't get involved again for another 130 years... because it SO WASN'T our problem. 

Until the Jews hijacked our politics, and suddenly, we treat Israel like queens.  

We've been cleaning up after the Zionists since the 1970's over there... for really no good reason.


----------



## rylah

JoeB131 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews lived in European countries even before the Roman genocide,
> while majority of Israelis are descendants of Jews from the Arab countries.
> 
> Ironically, You should do a research on how American navy used to pay "protection" fees to Muslim racketeers in the seas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Excatly, we didn't go over there for 30 years trying to change them or "bring democracy" or any of the other shit.  When they wouldn't take an honest bribe, we sent ships over to slap them around and we left.
> 
> But again, this was before the Zionists took over our government and insisted that we treat the Zionist Entity like the 51st State.
Click to expand...


What exactly?
America was unable to secure the navy from a bunch of Muslim pirates and was forced to pay for Sharia "protection".

I suggest that You demonstratively castrate Yourself -in memory of those good ol' days of glory, and don't forget to apologize.


----------



## Hollie

JoeB131 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> We never fought wars in the Middle East before the “Zionist takeover”?
> 
> Your sweaty, feverish Jew rants are asclaughably inept as your understanding of history.
> 
> Quite clearly, islamists have been at war with us since at least 1801. Barbary Coast wars, anyone?
> 
> Marine fight song: "From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn.. because it rhymed with "Sea", not because it was all that important to us.
> 
> So we send one small expedition once, and then we didn't get involved again for another 130 years... because it SO WASN'T our problem.
> 
> Until the Jews hijacked our politics, and suddenly, we treat Israel like queens.
> 
> We've been cleaning up after the Zionists since the 1970's over there... for really no good reason.
Click to expand...


It is funny how the leftist extremists conveniently ignore the history that conflicts with their agenda. It's also funny how it only takes a gentle nudge to launch you into another of your sweaty, feverish Jew rants.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  The Right To Destroy Jewish History
※→ JoeB131, et al,

Well, I suppose you and I will have to agree to disagree.

Both the young and the old know very well that there is a difference between a "freedom fighter? and a "terrorist."  I've taken the time to post an example of both a very new and up'n'coming generation, as well as a Generation X'er. 


*Difference between terrorist and freedom fighter*
The *difference* *between* a *terrorist* and a *freedom* *fighter* is that *terrorists* commit heinous acts of murder/genocide on a civilian populous to gain control. A *freedom* *fighter* goes against the oppressive establishment and limits the number of non-deliberate civilian casualties.
#1 *Posted by Total-KO* (4057 posts) - 11 years, 3 months ago
#2 Posted by teh_destroyer (35328 posts) - 11 years, 3 months ago
...


			
				[SIZE=4]by [URL='https://acton.org/about/people/john-bolt']John Bolt[/URL] • Action Commentary • [SIZE=4]November 14 said:
			
		

> [/SIZE][/SIZE]
> It is hard, we are then told, to know exactly where the line exists between terrorists and the brave would-be liberators of oppressed people: freedom fighters. Besides, many nations in the world have come into existence after lengthy struggles for liberation. Many pundits assert that the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is purely a matter of perception. When our guy kills in battle, he’s a freedom fighter; when our enemy does, he is a terrorist. Similar acts get different labels depending on who is doing the labeling.
> LINK:  *Terrorists or freedom fighters: What's the difference*?



My father came up in the Grestest Generation, fought the big war, and was in the aerospace industry that made the SR-71, and the components that took us to the Moon _(now our Astronauts have to hitchhike into space)_.  I mention this only as a side-show example of how things change over time. I can almost hear my father call from the grave saying:  "They are equally troublesome, kill them all."



JoeB131 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> We are not here to debate whether or not a person like Osama bin Laden (ObL) or Arab Palestinians _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)_ who takes part in these activities is there a justification. There is no case to support:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> All these activities _(both above and below)_ are punishable under international law.
> 
> Being involved in any way is just as criminal:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. You don't think that organized armies do things that are downright criminal?  We killed 3 million Vietnamese, and not one of our leaders got arrested for a war crime.  Lt. Calley spent one year under house arrest, and that was it.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

There is a difference, a big difference, between a "War Crime" _(Article 8 - Rome Statutes - International Criminal Court)_ and a "Terrorist Act" _(one of the international community has elaborated 19 international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts → or the Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism 1938)_.  You cannot be punished for being a freedom fighter; but, there are plenty of laws pertaining to terrorism and war crimes.

Most national as well as the international legal systems understand there is a difference.  Trying to say that there is a difference in only perspective _(one man's view versus another man's view)_ is over simplified _(even if it is a catchy sound bite)_.  And it has been know for some to switch sides from freedom fighter to terrorist _(and maybe even back again)_.  Osama bin Laden (ObL) was once a "freedom fighter;" fighting along side the Afghan Militia against the Russians.  Then, he (ObL) became a 'terrorist."  In Osama bin Laden's "Letter to the American People," he makes some sweeping statements.  Some excerpts:

Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:
(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us.
a) You attacked us in Palestine: ​(v) The removal of these governments is an obligation upon us, and a necessary step to free the Ummah, to make the Shariah the supreme law and to regain Palestine. And our fight against these governments is not separate from out fight against you.

(3) You may then dispute that all the above does not justify aggression against civilians, for crimes they did not commit and offenses in which they did not partake:
(a) This argument contradicts your continuous repetition that America is the land of freedom, and its leaders in this world. Therefore, the American people are the ones who choose their government by way of their own free will; a choice which stems from their agreement to its policies. Thus the American people have chosen, consented to, and affirmed their support for the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, the occupation and usurpation of their land, and its continuous killing, torture, punishment and expulsion of the Palestinians. The American people have the ability and choice to refuse the policies of their Government and even to change it if they want.​
You will notice that, after the Russain withdraw from Afghanistan, ObL switch from fighting the Russian Army to secure Afghan Freedoms _→  _to_ → _targeting the American civilian.  

While ObL fought against the Russian along side the Mujahideen (Islamist Afghan fighters) he was a freedom fighter.  Once he intentionally targets persons who are not members of the armed forces, he becomes a "terrorist" _→ _operating in contravention to Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL):

Rule 2. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited.​
I have written many times on the way inwhich the Arab Palestinians moved to terrorist actors _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)_ performing 
"criminal acts" directed against the US or Israel, intented or calculated to create the condition of "terror" in the minds of the citizenry and general public.   There is no question that the Arab Palestinains are engaged in such activity.

It is NOT a question of how many Arab Palestinians are Freedom Fighters, but how many are "terrorist?"

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## JoeB131

rylah said:


> What exactly?
> America was unable to secure the navy from a bunch of Muslim pirates and was forced to pay for Sharia "protection".



Or we should have done then what we should be doing now. 

"Oh, Mr. Muslim. That's YOUR PART OF THE WORLD.  I'm sorry, we won't into YOUR PART OF THE WORLD unless you invite us."   

See how simple that is.  

But, no, no, our policy, brought to you by the Jews and the Oil Companies, is "Let's stick our hands in the Hornet's nest and complain about getting stung."


----------



## JoeB131

Hollie said:


> It is funny how the leftist extremists conveniently ignore the history that conflicts with their agenda. It's also funny how it only takes a gentle nudge to launch you into another of your sweaty, feverish Jew rants.



I don't ignore the history, I just point out - IT WASN'T THAT IMPORTANT.  We did not send a huge army over there and occupy the place for 30 years and make everyone hate us.  We got in, got out and we were done.  

I was in during the First Gulf War (instigated by the Jews) when I was a young man.  Now I'm an old man, and we are STILL OVER THERE 28 years later.  



RoccoR said:


> Well, I suppose you and I will have to agree to disagree.
> 
> Both the young and the old know very well that there is a difference between a "freedom fighter? and a "terrorist." I've taken the time to post an example of both a very new and up'n'coming generation, as well as a Generation X'er



Yes, yes.. and I'll give you the advise I give most of my customers... write as though you are being paid by the point and penalized by the word.  



RoccoR said:


> I have written many times on the way inwhich the Arab Palestinians moved to terrorist actors _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)_ performing
> "criminal acts" directed against the US or Israel, intented or calculated to create the condition of "terror" in the minds of the citizenry and general public. There is no question that the Arab Palestinains are engaged in such activity.



Again- here's a crazy idea.  Let's not go into their part of the world, steal their land and try to swindle them out of their resources...  Then we won't have to worry about them trying to "scare" us.   

Of course, being an old man, I know how the Zionists try to manipulate us.  Back in the 1980's, everyone else over there was pro-Communist, and were helping the Russians....  Today they are all "Jihadists"....  They are very good at getting us to see their fight as our fight.


----------



## Sixties Fan

JoeB131 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly?
> America was unable to secure the navy from a bunch of Muslim pirates and was forced to pay for Sharia "protection".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or we should have done then what we should be doing now.
> 
> "Oh, Mr. Muslim. That's YOUR PART OF THE WORLD.  I'm sorry, we won't into YOUR PART OF THE WORLD unless you invite us."
> 
> See how simple that is.
> 
> But, no, no, our policy, brought to you by the Jews and the Oil Companies, is "Let's stick our hands in the Hornet's nest and complain about getting stung."
Click to expand...

Oh, my, the ignorance of Muslim history is just pathetic.

"So, all it takes if for the world to say, hey Muslims, we mind our side of the world and you mind yours"

Never mind all the land the Muslims invaded and conquered from North Africa to Europe from around the 8th century on, be it the Kurds, the Arabs, the Moors, or the Turks.

Timeline of the Muslim presence in the Iberian Peninsula - Wikipedia


READ

EDUCATE YOURSELF

And stop writing asinine things about what you know nothing about.


----------



## JoeB131

Sixties Fan said:


> "So, all it takes if for the world to say, hey Muslims, we mind our side of the world and you mind yours"
> 
> Never mind all the land the Muslims invaded and conquered from North Africa to Europe from around the 8th century on, be it the Kurds, the Arabs, the Moors, or the Turks.



So let's look at this crazy statement...  Muslims really haven't expanded their stupidity beyond their current borders since the Battle of Vienna....  if anything, they hold less territory now.. 

Meanwhile, Christians expanded their grip, along with Genocide, to the Americas, Australia, lots of Africa....  parts of Asia. 

Seems we white Christians really do have a hard time minding our own business.   


Sixties Fan said:


> READ
> 
> EDUCATE YOURSELF
> 
> And stop writing asinine things about what you know nothing about.



I've got a degree in history.... Of course, its' from one of those commie universities...


----------



## Sixties Fan

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> "So, all it takes if for the world to say, hey Muslims, we mind our side of the world and you mind yours"
> 
> Never mind all the land the Muslims invaded and conquered from North Africa to Europe from around the 8th century on, be it the Kurds, the Arabs, the Moors, or the Turks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So let's look at this crazy statement...  Muslims really haven't expanded their stupidity beyond their current borders since the Battle of Vienna....  if anything, they hold less territory now..
> 
> Meanwhile, Christians expanded their grip, along with Genocide, to the Americas, Australia, lots of Africa....  parts of Asia.
> 
> Seems we white Christians really do have a hard time minding our own business.
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> READ
> 
> EDUCATE YOURSELF
> 
> And stop writing asinine things about what you know nothing about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've got a degree in history.... Of course, its' from one of those commie universities...
Click to expand...

You have clearly not paid attention how Indonesia, Malaysia and part of India, now Pakistan, became Muslim in the past century.
And possibly some of Africa as well.

But I will leave you to what you wish to see in history, as long as it makes you the paranoid person you keep showing us to be.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> I'm making up the idea of a Jewish liberation movement?


Your claim that their liberation movement is rejected on principle.  That is total, made up, horseshit.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> I know EXACTLY what I am saying.  And so do you.  And there is no contradiction or paradox here.  Self-determination of both peoples is the point.
> 
> If the self-determination of the Arab Palestinians requires the elimination of Jewish self-determination in their own historic homeland then that Arab self-determination has to be restricted to where it won't harm Jewish self-determination.
> 
> No one is preventing the sort of self-determination of the Arab Palestinians which celebrates an equal and respected Jewish self-determination.  The problem is that the Arab Palestinians haven't found that yet.  They should get on it.


That's the big lie you keep telling.  Israel is denying them their right to self-determination.  Period.  And I don't give a flying fuck what kind of bullshit horseshit you make up to justify Israeli aggression, the truth is, they want to live free.  Your the villain.  Israel is causing all the violence.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> You are keeping the clock in the wrong place. With assumed mutual recognition (Israel's demonstrated by her withdrawal, Hamas' not demonstrated at all yet), there is no conflict between Gaza and Israel.  Be clear.  There IS NO fundamental conflict between Israel and Gaza if the assumption is that Gaza is the place for the self-determination of the Gazan people and Israel is the place for the self-determination of the Jewish people.  The territory of each is defined and agreed upon.  The border is clear and defined an agreed upon.  There is nothing to fight about.  Literally, NOTHING to fight about.


Israel did not withdraw from Gaza.  That's the other big lie you keep telling.  If Israel withdrew from Gaza, how come Gazan's can't leave?  Why can't they fish their own territorial waters without getting shot at?



Shusha said:


> Gaza wants the blockade to end.  Israel wants the violence across her borders to end.  BOTH people can have what they want.  The only obstacle to having what they want is the end of violence.  The end of violence and "resistance" is the solution to the problem for both peoples.


The blockade _*IS*_ the cause of the violence.



Shusha said:


> So what does that look like in real life?  It does not mean that Israel stops monitoring and responding.  It means Gaza stops inciting and instigating.  No more resistance.  No more protests.  No more rockets.  No more approaching the fence.  No fishing outside the zones.  It means Gaza just stopping the violence.


Listen shithead, why can't they walk up to the fence?  It's their property, not yours!  And they're being shot at INSIDE their fishing zones.  BTW, Israel has no right dictating to Gazan's what that fishing zone is.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Patently not true.  But...
> 
> How do you "get" Israel to allow imports and exports?  Here's an idea.  How about peace?


It's none of Israel's god-damn business who they decide to trade with.  You have no right telling someone what to do on their own property.


----------



## rylah

JoeB131 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly?
> America was unable to secure the navy from a bunch of Muslim pirates and was forced to pay for Sharia "protection".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or we should have done then what we should be doing now.
> 
> "Oh, Mr. Muslim. That's YOUR PART OF THE WORLD.  I'm sorry, we won't into YOUR PART OF THE WORLD unless you invite us."
> 
> See how simple that is.
> 
> But, no, no, our policy, brought to you by the Jews and the Oil Companies, is "Let's stick our hands in the Hornet's nest and complain about getting stung."
Click to expand...


US wars in the Middle East started way back, when Muslim pirates from the Ottoman Empire demanded ransom for American merchants. 

Thomas Jefferson refused and went to war.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Patently not true.  But...
> 
> How do you "get" Israel to allow imports and exports?  Here's an idea.  How about peace?
> 
> 
> 
> It's none of Israel's god-damn business who they decide to trade with.  You have no right telling someone what to do on their own property.
Click to expand...


My business is to prevent the ability of my enemy to arm.


----------



## JoeB131

Sixties Fan said:


> You have clearly not paid attention how Indonesia, Malaysia and part of India, now Pakistan, became Muslim in the past century.
> And possibly some of Africa as well.



Um, there were already Muslims living there... that's how they became Muslim... when they threw the British out.  Probably a good thing. Who knows who the Brits would have given their land away to .


----------



## JoeB131

rylah said:


> US wars in the Middle East started way back, when Muslim pirates from the Ottoman Empire demanded ransom for American merchants.
> 
> Thomas Jefferson refused and went to war.



Um, yeah, I missed the part where we were still there 30 years later.. when did this happen.  



rylah said:


> My business is to prevent the ability of my enemy to arm.



They are only your enemy because you stole their land.


----------



## Hollie

JoeB131 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> US wars in the Middle East started way back, when Muslim pirates from the Ottoman Empire demanded ransom for American merchants.
> 
> Thomas Jefferson refused and went to war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um, yeah, I missed the part where we were still there 30 years later.. when did this happen.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> My business is to prevent the ability of my enemy to arm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are only your enemy because you stole their land.
Click to expand...


Um, You rely on silly slogans as opposed to a reality based worldview.

The Ottoman Turks (themselves conquerors and land-stealers), released all rights and title to the lands they conquered at the end of WW I. That would include the geographic area of Palestine. Your “stolen land” slogan is a rather pointless cut and paste meme.

Secondly, the Islamic hate and war manual, otherwise known as the Koran, identifies both explicitly and tediously the eternal revulsion for Jews that is an integral part of Islamism. Your use of false claims and goofy slogans as a part of your Jew tirades gives one only confidence that your tirades carry an obvious agenda. You do have all the makins’ of a pious Moslem.


----------



## JoeB131

Hollie said:


> Um, You rely on silly slogans as opposed to a reality based worldview.
> 
> The Ottoman Turks (themselves conquerors and land-stealers), released all rights and title to the lands they conquered at the end of WW I. That would include the geographic area of Palestine. Your “stolen land” slogan is a rather pointless cut and paste meme.



Again, that would be like me and your neighbor deciding to give away your TV set because we felt bad for the stew-bum down the street.  



Hollie said:


> Secondly, the Islamic hate and war manual, otherwise known as the Koran, identifies both explicitly and tediously the eternal revulsion for Jews that is an integral part of Islamism. Your use of false claims and goofy slogans as a part of your Jew tirades gives one only confidence that your tirades carry an obvious agenda. You do have all the makins’ of a pious Moslem.



I think you are confusing the Koran for the Bible.  

Read the Gospel of John... that's been the excuse for Christian anti-Semitism for 2000 years.  

Again, my solution is simple... we don't get involved.  If you get killed by your Muslim neighbors because you stole their land, that is TOTALLY NOT MY PROBLEM.  

Natural Selection, baby.


----------



## Sixties Fan

JoeB131 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> US wars in the Middle East started way back, when Muslim pirates from the Ottoman Empire demanded ransom for American merchants.
> 
> Thomas Jefferson refused and went to war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um, yeah, I missed the part where we were still there 30 years later.. when did this happen.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> My business is to prevent the ability of my enemy to arm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are only your enemy because you stole their land.
Click to expand...

You continue to insist in saying that the indigenous Jewish people have stolen their own ancient homeland from the Arabs whose indigenous ancient homeland is the Arabian Peninsula.

Deny that they are the indigenous Jewish people all you like, and that there have always been indigenous Jews living on their ancient homeland.

Your way of thinking is exactly what the Jewish people have been fighting against since 1920, since the first Arab riots against the indigenous people to stop them from re-creating any sovereignty on their own Ancient homeland.

And the indigenous Jews will continue to defend what is left of their ancient homeland against those who wish to take it away and see them all dead, as the Arabs have said again and again.

The Romans took away the indigenous Jewish homeland and the indigenous Jews revolted against them.

Kurdish, Arab and Turkish Muslims take away the Jewish Homeland and you insist that NOW, the indigenous Jews have no more rights to it and must give it as a *gift* to the Muslims who have all of Arabia, all of Syria, Lebanon, Egypt and TransJordan and Gaza.


You are simply *way too kind *to the Muslims who are plotting to take over Europe again, not because of Zionists as you like to accuse, but because the word *Islam means Submit, which means, they invade, they conquer and you submit to them,*
be it in the 8th century when they invaded Asia, North Africa or Europe and conquered all or just parts as in Europe.

You keep destroying Muslim history in order to destroy Jewish History and especially any rights the Jewish Nation does have to its ancient homeland, like any other people have the right to theirs.

According to your own thinking:

The Arabs have no right to Arabia.
The Turks have no rights to Turkey.
The British have no rights to England.
The French have no right to France
The Spaniards have no right to Spain

(I am only picking the biggest invaders and conquerors of the past 500 years.  They must expect being taken over and give away their homeland without any fights, because people like yourself cannot deal with invading wars, which have happened since humans have been humans, and will never end )

That is what you are telling everyone.

You believe that any US government will stop its interest in any part of the world because people like yourself do not understand the consequences if it did so?

Russia and its interests do not exist?
Iran and its interests do not exist?
Saudi Arabia and its interests do not exist?
The UK and many other European countries and their interests do not exist?

Exactly how are you going to stop any and all of those countries to want beyond their borders so that you can finally have a good peaceful night's sleep?


----------



## Sixties Fan

JoeB131 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Um, You rely on silly slogans as opposed to a reality based worldview.
> 
> The Ottoman Turks (themselves conquerors and land-stealers), released all rights and title to the lands they conquered at the end of WW I. That would include the geographic area of Palestine. Your “stolen land” slogan is a rather pointless cut and paste meme.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, that would be like me and your neighbor deciding to give away your TV set because we felt bad for the stew-bum down the street.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, the Islamic hate and war manual, otherwise known as the Koran, identifies both explicitly and tediously the eternal revulsion for Jews that is an integral part of Islamism. Your use of false claims and goofy slogans as a part of your Jew tirades gives one only confidence that your tirades carry an obvious agenda. You do have all the makins’ of a pious Moslem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you are confusing the Koran for the Bible.
> 
> Read the Gospel of John... that's been the excuse for Christian anti-Semitism for 2000 years.
> 
> Again, my solution is simple... we don't get involved.  If you get killed by your Muslim neighbors because you stole their land, that is TOTALLY NOT MY PROBLEM.
> 
> Natural Selection, baby.
Click to expand...

Again, a silly example (tv) as to what goes on in the world of conquests, and always has.

The Quran is a result of Christians wanting to convert Arabs after the 4th century CE and it blowing in their faces when Mohammad decided to create his own monotheism.

Just as the Christian Bible is the excuse for oppression of Jews for the past 1700 years, since the Romans became Christians, the Quran is the guide on what to do with the Jews. 

Mistreat them, force them to convert, expel them, kill them.

Your solution is that of simple minded people who refuse to understand and much less acknowledge how the world works.

It is a mixture of things going on at the same time, and one action leads to a reaction, so on and so forth.

Whatever you cannot accept you seem to need to take it out on the Jews who legally worked to recreate their sovereignty over what ended up being only 20% of their ancient homeland, as 80 % is in the hands of Muslims thanks to the British.

Let us ask the British and the Hashemite to return the 80% of Jewish homeland and give the Hashemites their homeland back.
It is now called Saudi Arabia.

Are you on board with it, or are you going to insist that only Muslims have the right to land, and not Christians or Jews?
How about the Indian people who lost part of their land to Muslims and it is now being called Pakistan?  
Does that land go back to India?

Give us a map to fairness on this world where the indigenous people do end up getting their ancient homelands back and live happily ever after with their neighbors as it should be, if ever possible.


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> My business is to prevent the ability of my enemy to arm.


It's none of your fucking business what someone does on their own property!  Come over to my house asshole and try to tell me what's what under my own roof and see what happens next!


----------



## rylah

JoeB131 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> US wars in the Middle East started way back, when Muslim pirates from the Ottoman Empire demanded ransom for American merchants.
> 
> Thomas Jefferson refused and went to war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um, yeah, I missed the part where we were still there 30 years later.. when did this happen.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> My business is to prevent the ability of my enemy to arm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are only your enemy because you stole their land.
Click to expand...


You were there continuously for 15 years defending US citizens from Arab pirates. During all that time Americans were at war both inside and overseas. Then You fought against the Ottomans once again and established the USAFIME in '42 and so on.

As long as military capacity allowed it You were always there, way back over 30 years ago.

As for stolen lands - the Jewish nation is the sovereign nation of Palestine both  to international and US law. Arabs as well, still call it "_*The Jewish Desert' *_for a reason.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> My business is to prevent the ability of my enemy to arm.
> 
> 
> 
> It's none of your fucking business what someone does on their own property!  Come over to my house asshole and try to tell me what's what under my own roof and see what happens next!
Click to expand...


Not when Your neighbor is a suicidal maniac who swore to kill Your family in the whole neighborhood.

That's about when his business becomes my personal business.


----------



## JoeB131

Sixties Fan said:


> You continue to insist in saying that the indigenous Jewish people have stolen their own ancient homeland from the Arabs whose indigenous ancient homeland is the Arabian Peninsula.



I think you need to look up what "indigenous" means.  It does not mean, "A bunch of assholes from Europe who happen to share the same religion, but not really." 

It would be like if I went to Germany and claimed I had a right to the land there, because my Great grandparents lived there.  



Sixties Fan said:


> Your way of thinking is exactly what the Jewish people have been fighting against since 1920, since the first Arab riots against the indigenous people to stop them from re-creating any sovereignty on their own Ancient homeland.



Um, yeah.  Let's look at that. 

UK "Hey, help us fight the Ottomans and we'll give you your own country!" 

Arabs: "Awesome. We never liked those guys anyway!"  

UK: Just kidding. We're giving your land to some Jews from Europe.. Hey, why are you all revolting against us? 



Sixties Fan said:


> You believe that any US government will stop its interest in any part of the world because people like yourself do not understand the consequences if it did so?
> 
> Russia and its interests do not exist?
> Iran and its interests do not exist?
> Saudi Arabia and its interests do not exist?
> The UK and many other European countries and their interests do not exist?



Why is any of this our business?  it's on the other side of the planet, and ONLY our problem because the Jews and the Oil companies make it our problem. If we took the 900 billion we spend every year playing "Hall Monitor of the Middle East" and spent it on infrastructure and renewables, problem solved.


----------



## JoeB131

rylah said:


> You were there continuously for 15 years defending US citizens from Arab pirates. During all that time Americans were at war both inside and overseas. Then You fought against the Ottomans once again and established the USAFIME in '42 and so on.
> 
> As long as military capacity allowed it You were always there, way back over 30 years ago.



But the point is, we didn't set up shop and let one faction dictate our policy because they bought off our politicians.  



rylah said:


> As for stolen lands - the Jewish nation is the sovereign nation of Palestine both to international and US law. Arabs as well, still call it "_*The Jewish Desert' *_for a reason.



They'll be calling it the "Jewish Glass Tabletop" at some point.


----------



## JoeB131

rylah said:


> Not when Your neighbor is a suicidal maniac who swore to kill Your family in the whole neighborhood.
> 
> That's about when his business becomes my personal business.



But here's the point.  Let's assume that a quarter of your Islamophobic rantings are true. 

Moving in where they have you surrounded on all sides for hundreds of miles is kind of... dumb, no? 

Oh, God promised you that land... that was it.


----------



## JoeB131

And now for a musical interlude..


----------



## Shusha

JoeB131 said:


> I think you need to look up what "indigenous" means.  It does not mean, "A bunch of assholes from Europe who happen to share the same religion, but not really."



Actually, I think YOU need to look up what "indigenous" means: 

_Indigenous peoples are inheritors and practitioners of unique cultures and ways of relating to people and the environment. They have retained social, cultural, economic and political characteristics that are distinct from those of the dominant societies in which they live. ... Indigenous peoples  have sought recognition of their identities, way of life and their right to traditional lands, territories and natural resources for years, yet throughout history, their rights have always been violated. ... The international community now recognizes that special measures are required to protect their rights and maintain their distinct cultures and way of life. _




> It would be like if I went to Germany and claimed I had a right to the land there, because my Great grandparents lived there.


 Lol.  Um.  You know Germany practices jus sanguinis, right?  Like most European countries.  Means if your parents were German citizens, you are too.  No matter where you were born or live.


----------



## rylah

JoeB131 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> You were there continuously for 15 years defending US citizens from Arab pirates. During all that time Americans were at war both inside and overseas. Then You fought against the Ottomans once again and established the USAFIME in '42 and so on.
> 
> As long as military capacity allowed it You were always there, way back over 30 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But the point is, we didn't set up shop and let one faction dictate our policy because they bought off our politicians.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for stolen lands - the Jewish nation is the sovereign nation of Palestine both to international and US law. Arabs as well, still call it "_*The Jewish Desert' *_for a reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They'll be calling it the "Jewish Glass Tabletop" at some point.
Click to expand...


Of course You did, You've set shops in every continent fighting for whichever side that suited the situation. In the middle east You've set shops in the Muslim oil rich countries first, then Americans realized that they needed to set foot in Israel as it withstood Arab pressure.

There's not one conflict in which You didn't take the side of this or that ethnic minority that has electoral power within the US.


----------



## rylah

JoeB131 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not when Your neighbor is a suicidal maniac who swore to kill Your family in the whole neighborhood.
> 
> That's about when his business becomes my personal business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But here's the point.  Let's assume that a quarter of your Islamophobic rantings are true.
> 
> Moving in where they have you surrounded on all sides for hundreds of miles is kind of... dumb, no?
> 
> Oh, God promised you that land... that was it.
Click to expand...


Only if You think that reclaiming Your independence is dumb.
Having a country usually means exactly that - being surrounded by other nations for hundreds of miles.

For majority of Israelis having Arab neighbors didn't change a thing, as we have lived among Arabs for all of our lives. The only difference is in reclaiming our neighborhood.


----------



## Mindful

:: would be like if I went to Germany and claimed I had a right to the land there, because my Great grandparents lived there. ::

Actually, that happened.


----------



## JoeB131

Shusha said:


> Actually, I think YOU need to look up what "indigenous" means:
> 
> _Indigenous peoples are inheritors and practitioners of unique cultures and ways of relating to people and the environment. _



Okay, let's look at that. 

The invaders from Europe spoke Yiddish, not Hebrew.  so clearly, they weren't of that culture anymore. 



Shusha said:


> Lol. Um. You know Germany practices jus sanguinis, right? Like most European countries. Means if your parents were German citizens, you are too. No matter where you were born or live.



My Dad was a german citizen... I'm not.  Nor would anyone over there be too happy if I went over there and tried to claim some property in the Rhineland someone else owns. 



rylah said:


> Of course You did, You've set shops in every continent fighting for whichever side that suited the situation. In the middle east You've set shops in the Muslim oil rich countries first, then Americans realized that they needed to set foot in Israel as it withstood Arab pressure.



Quite the contrary, the Zionist Entity makes our diplomacy in that region harder, because the one thing they all agree on is how much they hate the Zionists. (not that i blame them).  The reason why we support the Zionists is because Capitol Hill is Zionist Occupied territory, as Pat Buchanan once observed. 

So we get dragged into war after war over there depending who the Jews in Washington have convinced the politicians are really bad guys.


----------



## rylah

Nothing like repeating Neo-Nazi conspiracy theories to prove Your diagnose.
As Ben Shapiro said Jew hatred is different from other cases of xenophobia, as opposed to other minority groups who are considered inferior in some way, antisemitism is a giant conspiracy theory of galactic proportions.


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> Nothing like quoting Neo-Nazi conspiracy theories to prove Your diagnose.



Once they start using 'Zionist entity' rhetoric, they're done.


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing like quoting Neo-Nazi conspiracy theories to prove Your diagnose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once they start using 'Zionist entity' rhetoric, they're done.
Click to expand...


It's a warm up before _"Jews will not replace us" _chants.
Then goes Pittsburgh...


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Abraham and Ishmael went to Arabia, Moses went to Arabia.  That according to the endless replacement religion known as Islam which knows no bounds in its need to keep Jews as less than humans while they appropriate themselves of all the 3800 years of Jewish history.  Patriarchs, Matriarchs, Holy Sites, etc.

Arabs, a people without a history they want to be proud of, in need to steal every letter of the Torah and turn it into their own history, their own way ]


He was hardly a leading Zionist, and even if he was, the idea that a "secret Zionist plan" would be published in a book aimed at teenagers is ridiculous.

Nevertheless, the conspiracy-minded writer at Al Jazeera uses this map as proof of a hundred year old plan that is finally coming together. Apparently, a major Saudi tourism/smart city initiative called Neum is really a Zionist initiative, as the Ben Avi map supposedly shows:

" The map explains what is going on in Sinai and the northwest of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. All the puzzles are solved. In the southwestern corner of Greater Israel, the population is being disposed of and ready to be handed over to the Israelis as a gift without war. Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman plays the main role. On the Saudi side in the name of the project of Neum or Sinai with the consent of Abdul Fattah al-Sisi to buy the islands and land, and finance the so-called Deal of the Century to evacuate the area of the population.
The Neum project is an Israeli settlement on the eastern bank of the Gulf of Aqaba, which has historical and religious significance to the Jews. It is the land of Medina where our master Moses sought refuge from Pharaoh. The Jews established it after leaving Egypt according to the Jewish narrative. And the investment is to expel the Saudi population from there.
The most important observation that appears from the map and exposing what is happening is that Mohammed bin Salman when he announced the area allocated for the project "Neum" make the southern axis exactly match the line drawn in Ben Avi map, in the same place and the same angle (30 degrees) until reaching the latitude 28 Which runs east to the latitude of about 45 degrees to climb north to Samawah on the Euphrates River."


I didn't know Moses went to Medina! I guess that's where the Burning Bush was!

We learn so much from Arab media!

(full article online)

Arabs unearth a secret Zionist map showing Israel's intent to take over all land from Saudi Arabia to Egypt! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Shusha

JoeB131 said:


> The invaders from Europe spoke Yiddish, not Hebrew.  so clearly, they weren't of that culture anymore.


Please.  First Nations peoples speak English in addition to their native languages where they have been preserved.  Doesn't mean that learning English removes their indigeneity.  Arab Palestinians who learn English, or Hebrew are still Arab Palestinians. 



> My Dad was a german citizen... I'm not.  Nor would anyone over there be too happy if I went over there and tried to claim some property in the Rhineland someone else owns.


You really don't understand how this works, do you?  Your father, as a German citizen, has passed down his German citizenship to his children.  That's called jus sanguinis.  Common in nearly all European countries.  You have the right to apply for and obtain German citizenship based on your father's German citizenship.  That national citizenship then gives you rights and entitlements in Germany as a German citizen.  And you would have every right to purchase property in the Rhineland and fully participate in German society as a German national, regardless of where you were born or where you lived.  

The Arab Palestinians have set up a similar situation.  Arabs with Palestinian citizenship or heritage pass that heritage down to their children.  If one has an Arab Palestinians parent, they are Arab Palestinian, regardless of where that child was born or where they reside.  

Now, all you have to do is apply those same standards to the Jewish people.  Jewish heritage is traditionally passed down from mother to child. Israeli citizenship (that is Jewish Palestinian citizenship) is passed down from mother or father to the child.  

So IF you want to argue that jus sanguinis should not be a thing then you must apply the rule to all European countries which practice it, all Asian countries which practice it as well as to the Arab Palestinians and also to the Jewish Palestinians and say that no people in the world and no nation in the world may grant citizenship (or inclusion in a heritage) to the children of its citizens based on parent's citizenship.  (And thank you for instantly solving the problem of the "right of return" for the Arab Palestinians, btw.)

But if you apply this rule ONLY to the Jewish people you are creating a double standard -- one for the rest of the world and one for Jews.  You know what that is.


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> Not when Your neighbor is a suicidal maniac who swore to kill Your family in the whole neighborhood.
> 
> That's about when his business becomes my personal business.


That's the big lie you keep telling in order to justify your atrocities.


----------



## JoeB131

Shusha said:


> Please. First Nations peoples speak English in addition to their native languages where they have been preserved. Doesn't mean that learning English removes their indigeneity. Arab Palestinians who learn English, or Hebrew are still Arab Palestinians.



Actually, the Zionists are about as "Semitic" as Elizabeth Warren is Cherokee.....  Sorry, when you are removed by centuries of cultural changes and interbreeding, you really don't have a claim. 



Shusha said:


> You really don't understand how this works, do you? Your father, as a German citizen, has passed down his German citizenship to his children.



I understand perfectly how it works.  I'm not a German citizen... this is a stupid conversation.  And a bunch of Yiddish speaking Europeans aren't "Israelite".  



Shusha said:


> Now, all you have to do is apply those same standards to the Jewish people. Jewish heritage is traditionally passed down from mother to child. Israeli citizenship (that is Jewish Palestinian citizenship) is passed down from mother or father to the child.



No, actually, I don't. They are unwanted invaders who've established an apartheid state.  

A lot of babbling to justify something we'd be damned mad about if anyone else in the world did this.


----------



## Hollie

JoeB131 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please. First Nations peoples speak English in addition to their native languages where they have been preserved. Doesn't mean that learning English removes their indigeneity. Arab Palestinians who learn English, or Hebrew are still Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Zionists are about as "Semitic" as Elizabeth Warren is Cherokee.....  Sorry, when you are removed by centuries of cultural changes and interbreeding, you really don't have a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You really don't understand how this works, do you? Your father, as a German citizen, has passed down his German citizenship to his children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand perfectly how it works.  I'm not a German citizen... this is a stupid conversation.  And a bunch of Yiddish speaking Europeans aren't "Israelite".
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, all you have to do is apply those same standards to the Jewish people. Jewish heritage is traditionally passed down from mother to child. Israeli citizenship (that is Jewish Palestinian citizenship) is passed down from mother or father to the child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, actually, I don't. They are unwanted invaders who've established an apartheid state.
> 
> A lot of babbling to justify something we'd be damned mad about if anyone else in the world did this.
Click to expand...


I do find it comical that the entirety of your sweaty, feverish rants are nothing more than compilations of slogans and clichés. 

“Zionist Entity”, “invaders”, “apartheid state”. You might want to toss in an accessory “ “Yid” now and then to keep it fresh.


----------



## Sixties Fan

JoeB131 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please. First Nations peoples speak English in addition to their native languages where they have been preserved. Doesn't mean that learning English removes their indigeneity. Arab Palestinians who learn English, or Hebrew are still Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Zionists are about as "Semitic" as Elizabeth Warren is Cherokee.....  Sorry, when you are removed by centuries of cultural changes and interbreeding, you really don't have a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You really don't understand how this works, do you? Your father, as a German citizen, has passed down his German citizenship to his children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand perfectly how it works.  I'm not a German citizen... this is a stupid conversation.  And a bunch of Yiddish speaking Europeans aren't "Israelite".
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, all you have to do is apply those same standards to the Jewish people. Jewish heritage is traditionally passed down from mother to child. Israeli citizenship (that is Jewish Palestinian citizenship) is passed down from mother or father to the child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, actually, I don't. They are unwanted invaders who've established an apartheid state.
> 
> A lot of babbling to justify something we'd be damned mad about if anyone else in the world did this.
Click to expand...

Where is your proof that the Jewish people have endlessly inbred and that that takes away their indigenous rights .
You are clearly confusing marrying some who are not from the land o Israel with inbreeding.

I will not bother to give links which prove the indigenous status of the Jews to their ancient homeland. I know you could not care less and will continue to spew your venom against them.....because you can.

You do not want to understand what Susha meant by the German example.

Israelites are the ancestors to today.s Israelis.  They chose a different word so that
People would not confuse the two. Both are indigenous of the land of Israel, the second
Is descended from the first, you like it or not.

Your conspiracy theories of invaders, that is what the word Palestinian means, and of Israel being apartheid, when all the non Jews living there disagree with you, is something you really have to work on.  But you will not.


----------



## JoeB131

Hollie said:


> I do find it comical that the entirety of your sweaty, feverish rants are nothing more than compilations of slogans and clichés.
> 
> “Zionist Entity”, “invaders”, “apartheid state”. You might want to toss in an accessory “ “Yid” now and then to keep it fresh.



Why?  I dislike the Zionists for what they do, not who they are... I'm sorry you don't get this. 

The Zionists are kind of like abused children who've gotten big enough to beat up on someone else...  It's sad, but it doesn't justify it. 



Sixties Fan said:


> Where is your proof that the Jewish people have endlessly inbred and that that takes away their indigenous rights .



That they hadn't lived there for hundreds of years and they look like Europeans now than middle-easterners... that's my proof...



Sixties Fan said:


> I will not bother to give links which prove the indigenous status of the Jews to their ancient homeland. I know you could not care less and will continue to spew your venom against them.....because you can.



You are right... because your "proof" comes from a book with talking snakes and giants in it.   that' why I don't take it terribly seriously. 



Sixties Fan said:


> You do not want to understand what Susha meant by the German example.



No, because it was a stupid example. 

100 years ago, my Grandfather came here from Germany.  He stopped calling himself "Ludwig" and started calling himself "Louis". His wife stopped calling herself "Magdelena" and started calling herself "Helen".  They stopped pronouncing the family name with a hard U and started using a soft U. My Dad married a non-German woman.   By the time of my Generation, no one in our family speaks German, eats German food that much, or celebrates anything German... That's why we aren't Germans. 

And the Yiddish speaking Europeans aren't "Judeans" or "Israelite". They are just another group of European invaders the Third World wants go, the last pustule of the Imperial Disease 



Sixties Fan said:


> Israelites are the ancestors to today.s Israelis. They chose a different word so that
> People would not confuse the two. Both are indigenous of the land of Israel, the second
> Is descended from the first, you like it or not.



No, they are a bunch of European invaders who did something for the stupidest reason of all- religion.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not when Your neighbor is a suicidal maniac who swore to kill Your family in the whole neighborhood.
> 
> That's about when his business becomes my personal business.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the big lie you keep telling in order to justify your atrocities.
Click to expand...


Is it even debatable that my enemy praises suicide as high virtue?


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> Is it even debatable that my enemy praises suicide as high virtue?


Anything is better than living under Israeli tyranny.


----------



## Mindful

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is it even debatable that my enemy praises suicide as high virtue?
> 
> 
> 
> Anything is better than living under Israeli tyranny.
Click to expand...


See? You come out with crap like that, and wonder why nobody 'debates' you.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is it even debatable that my enemy praises suicide as high virtue?
> 
> 
> 
> Anything is better than living under Israeli tyranny.
Click to expand...

And little Billo has loads of experience living under Israeli tyranny as a non Jew.

Smile folks.  This one is memorable....


----------



## Billo_Really

Mindful said:


> See? You come out with crap like that, and wonder why nobody 'debates' you.


Why is it crap?


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> And little Billo has loads of experience living under Israeli tyranny as a non Jew.
> 
> Smile folks.  This one is memorable....


I never said I did, whore.


----------



## Mindful

Billo_Really said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> See? You come out with crap like that, and wonder why nobody 'debates' you.
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it crap?
Click to expand...


Why is it not?


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is it even debatable that my enemy praises suicide as high virtue?
> 
> 
> 
> Anything is better than living under Israeli tyranny.
Click to expand...


Tell that to all the Arabs applying for Israeli citizenship.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> And little Billo has loads of experience living under Israeli tyranny as a non Jew.
> 
> Smile folks.  This one is memorable....
> 
> 
> 
> I never said I did, whore.
Click to expand...

That was the point, oh master of four letter words !!!!

You have never lived in Israel, not even visited, but you insist that you know that it is an apartheid country.

As I said, your words are memorable.  Especially to all South Africans who have gone to Israel and have found nothing like the world you have chosen to invent for Israel.

---------
According to Kenneth Meshoe, chairman of the African Christian Democratic Party faction, any attempt to compare Palestinians’ experience in Israel with the former racist regime is offensive to individuals who suffered under the system of racial separation.

Whatever challenges the Arab minority in Israel faces, the reality of life here cannot be compared to his experiences growing up, he insists.

“There is freedom of movement in this country that we never had in South Africa,” Meshoe told Tazpit Press Service (TPS) during a visit to Jerusalem last week. “Benches and bathrooms said ‘whites only.’ We could never take ‘white’ transportation. Most white doctors would not treat black patients, only white ones. And those who were willing to treat black patients out of compassion – many of them would ask the patients to enter their clinics through the back door so they wouldn’t be seen by the white patients in the lobby. I don’t know if it was illegal for white doctors to treat black patients, but the reality was that very few did.”






*No Apartheid in Israel, Says South African Politician*

No Apartheid in Israel, Says South African Politician

----------------------

Keep lying to yourself and attempting to make others believe your lies.

All they need to do is look at the photo above to see how much apartheid, as in South Africa, exists in Israel.

Here is another first hand witness of what Apartheid in South Africa was like, and why Israel is absolutely nothing like it:

JERUSALEM — Among critics of Israel, it has become ever more common to accuse the Jewish state of imitating apartheid South Africa. This month, an obscure United Nations agency, the Economic and Social Commission for Western Asia, whose membership comprises 18 Arab states, caused an uproar when it issued a report accusing Israel of applying the same racism in its conflict with Palestinians that made South Africa an international pariah. The United Nations secretary general swiftly repudiated the report, and it was removed from the agency’s website.

The idea that Israel is an apartheid state is a staple of the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement, which has made the South African comparison practically the lingua franca of anti-Israel activism. It’s a grave charge: If the accusation is valid, Israel deserves the censure, boycotts and isolation that the B.D.S. movement demands. But announcing it loudly and ceaselessly, as the movement does, doesn’t make it true.

Here’s why the apartheid comparison does not stack up.

Apartheid in South Africa maintained privilege for the white minority and doomed people of color to subservience; it determined every aspect of life — the school you attended, the work you did, where you lived, which hospital and ambulance you used, whom you could marry, right down to which park bench you could sit on without facing arrest.

Opinion | Why Israel Is Nothing Like Apartheid South Africa


BUT


We are all to believe Billo because he has had PERSONAL experience in living in South Africa and in Israel.


But, but, but, but.....


----------



## Mindful

Sixties Fan said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> And little Billo has loads of experience living under Israeli tyranny as a non Jew.
> 
> Smile folks.  This one is memorable....
> 
> 
> 
> I never said I did, whore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was the point, oh master of four letter words !!!!
> 
> You have never lived in Israel, not even visited, but you insist that you know that it is an apartheid country.
> 
> As I said, your words are memorable.  Especially to all South Africans who have gone to Israel and have found nothing like the world you have chosen to invent for Israel.
> 
> ---------
> According to Kenneth Meshoe, chairman of the African Christian Democratic Party faction, any attempt to compare Palestinians’ experience in Israel with the former racist regime is offensive to individuals who suffered under the system of racial separation.
> 
> Whatever challenges the Arab minority in Israel faces, the reality of life here cannot be compared to his experiences growing up, he insists.
> 
> “There is freedom of movement in this country that we never had in South Africa,” Meshoe told Tazpit Press Service (TPS) during a visit to Jerusalem last week. “Benches and bathrooms said ‘whites only.’ We could never take ‘white’ transportation. Most white doctors would not treat black patients, only white ones. And those who were willing to treat black patients out of compassion – many of them would ask the patients to enter their clinics through the back door so they wouldn’t be seen by the white patients in the lobby. I don’t know if it was illegal for white doctors to treat black patients, but the reality was that very few did.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *No Apartheid in Israel, Says South African Politician*
> 
> No Apartheid in Israel, Says South African Politician
> 
> ----------------------
> 
> Keep lying to yourself and attempting to make others believe your lies.
> 
> All they need to do is look at the photo above to see how much apartheid, as in South Africa, exists in Israel.
> 
> Here is another first hand witness of what Apartheid in South Africa was like, and why Israel is absolutely nothing like it:
> 
> JERUSALEM — Among critics of Israel, it has become ever more common to accuse the Jewish state of imitating apartheid South Africa. This month, an obscure United Nations agency, the Economic and Social Commission for Western Asia, whose membership comprises 18 Arab states, caused an uproar when it issued a report accusing Israel of applying the same racism in its conflict with Palestinians that made South Africa an international pariah. The United Nations secretary general swiftly repudiated the report, and it was removed from the agency’s website.
> 
> The idea that Israel is an apartheid state is a staple of the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement, which has made the South African comparison practically the lingua franca of anti-Israel activism. It’s a grave charge: If the accusation is valid, Israel deserves the censure, boycotts and isolation that the B.D.S. movement demands. But announcing it loudly and ceaselessly, as the movement does, doesn’t make it true.
> 
> Here’s why the apartheid comparison does not stack up.
> 
> Apartheid in South Africa maintained privilege for the white minority and doomed people of color to subservience; it determined every aspect of life — the school you attended, the work you did, where you lived, which hospital and ambulance you used, whom you could marry, right down to which park bench you could sit on without facing arrest.
> 
> Opinion | Why Israel Is Nothing Like Apartheid South Africa
> 
> 
> BUT
> 
> 
> We are all to believe Billo because he has had PERSONAL experience in living in South Africa and in Israel.
> 
> 
> But, but, but, but.....
Click to expand...


Have you, Billo? Lived in Israel?


----------



## Billo_Really

Mindful said:


> Why is it not?


See what I mean, you don't debate.


----------



## Mindful

Billo_Really said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it not?
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean, you don't debate.
Click to expand...


See what you mean??


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> Tell that to all the Arabs applying for Israeli citizenship.


And how many are those?


----------



## Mindful

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to all the Arabs applying for Israeli citizenship.
> 
> 
> 
> And how many are those?
Click to expand...


Truly a stupid question.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> That was the point, oh master of four letter words !!!!
> 
> You have never lived in Israel, not even visited, but you insist that you know that it is an apartheid country.
> 
> As I said, your words are memorable.  Especially to all South Africans who have gone to Israel and have found nothing like the world you have chosen to invent for Israel.
> 
> ---------
> According to Kenneth Meshoe, chairman of the African Christian Democratic Party faction, any attempt to compare Palestinians’ experience in Israel with the former racist regime is offensive to individuals who suffered under the system of racial separation.
> 
> Whatever challenges the Arab minority in Israel faces, the reality of life here cannot be compared to his experiences growing up, he insists.
> 
> “There is freedom of movement in this country that we never had in South Africa,” Meshoe told Tazpit Press Service (TPS) during a visit to Jerusalem last week. “Benches and bathrooms said ‘whites only.’ We could never take ‘white’ transportation. Most white doctors would not treat black patients, only white ones. And those who were willing to treat black patients out of compassion – many of them would ask the patients to enter their clinics through the back door so they wouldn’t be seen by the white patients in the lobby. I don’t know if it was illegal for white doctors to treat black patients, but the reality was that very few did.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *No Apartheid in Israel, Says South African Politician*
> 
> No Apartheid in Israel, Says South African Politician
> 
> ----------------------
> 
> Keep lying to yourself and attempting to make others believe your lies.
> 
> All they need to do is look at the photo above to see how much apartheid, as in South Africa, exists in Israel.
> 
> Here is another first hand witness of what Apartheid in South Africa was like, and why Israel is absolutely nothing like it:
> 
> JERUSALEM — Among critics of Israel, it has become ever more common to accuse the Jewish state of imitating apartheid South Africa. This month, an obscure United Nations agency, the Economic and Social Commission for Western Asia, whose membership comprises 18 Arab states, caused an uproar when it issued a report accusing Israel of applying the same racism in its conflict with Palestinians that made South Africa an international pariah. The United Nations secretary general swiftly repudiated the report, and it was removed from the agency’s website.
> 
> The idea that Israel is an apartheid state is a staple of the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement, which has made the South African comparison practically the lingua franca of anti-Israel activism. It’s a grave charge: If the accusation is valid, Israel deserves the censure, boycotts and isolation that the B.D.S. movement demands. But announcing it loudly and ceaselessly, as the movement does, doesn’t make it true.
> 
> Here’s why the apartheid comparison does not stack up.
> 
> Apartheid in South Africa maintained privilege for the white minority and doomed people of color to subservience; it determined every aspect of life — the school you attended, the work you did, where you lived, which hospital and ambulance you used, whom you could marry, right down to which park bench you could sit on without facing arrest.
> 
> Opinion | Why Israel Is Nothing Like Apartheid South Africa
> 
> 
> BUT
> 
> 
> We are all to believe Billo because he has had PERSONAL experience in living in South Africa and in Israel.
> 
> 
> But, but, but, but.....


Did you live in South Africa?  No.  Christ, you don't even live in Israel.  So, according to your twisted logic, you don't know what it is like in Israel, so stop acting like you do.

In the meantime, chew on this, bitch!

Have you heard of the *Admissions Committee Law?  *
_"[It permits] Negev and Galilee towns to ban Israeli Arab citizens, claiming they’re “unsuitable” for Jewish communities."_​
And in other news...

_"Israeli Supreme Court justices approved the eviction of 40 East Jerusalem families from their East Jerusalem Sheikh Jarrah homes. *The neighborhood is designated for Jews-only residency.*.."_​


----------



## Billo_Really

Mindful said:


> Have you, Billo? Lived in Israel?


When you answer my questions, I'll answer yours.


----------



## Billo_Really

Mindful said:


> See what you mean??


So now you're just a trolling parrot.


----------



## Mindful

Billo_Really said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> See what you mean??
> 
> 
> 
> So now you're just a trolling parrot.
Click to expand...


While you are merely a troll.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to all the Arabs applying for Israeli citizenship.
> 
> 
> 
> And how many are those?
Click to expand...

Surge of East Jerusalemites getting citizenship still leaves lion’s share in limbo


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ignorant Billo,

There are many on this thread who have either been born in Israel or actually live now in Israel.   They know that you are full of it about wanting to call Israel an apartheid country.  And so are the Black South Africans who have been there, whom you respect as much as you do the Jews in Israel.


Global Research, a anti Israel conspiracy theory site is your source for that Fantastic article?

Thanks for the laugh 

And thank you for never dealing with how Jews were expelled from their homes and lands during the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 to 1948 and how ALL of those lands became Muslim Arab only territories.

And some people really think they have the "right" to destroy Jewish History, Israel and the Jews with their endless conspiracies and wishful thinking.


----------



## Shusha

JoeB131 said:


> Why?  I dislike the Zionists for what they do, not who they are... I'm sorry you don't get this.


If that were true, you would be arguing about what they do, instead of going on your rants about "foreign zionist invaders from Europe".  See?  That is arguing with what they ARE.  (Actually, in reality, its arguing what they AREN'T but...)



> The Zionists are kind of like abused children ...


Again...arguing what they ARE (AREN'T) not what they do.



> That they hadn't lived there for hundreds of years and they look like Europeans now than middle-easterners... that's my proof...


Oh look again....



> You are right... because your "proof" comes from a book with talking snakes and giants in it.   that' why I don't take it terribly seriously.


And again...





> No, because it was a stupid example.
> 
> 100 years ago, my Grandfather came here from Germany.  He stopped calling himself "Ludwig" and started calling himself "Louis". His wife stopped calling herself "Magdelena" and started calling herself "Helen".  They stopped pronouncing the family name with a hard U and started using a soft U. My Dad married a non-German woman.   By the time of my Generation, no one in our family speaks German, eats German food that much, or celebrates anything German... That's why we aren't Germans.



You pretend not to get it, but you get it.  See, the Jewish people DO still speak Hebrew, both liturgical Hebrew which preserved the language and modern Hebrew which was revived from the original language.  The Jewish people do eat Jewish foods and follow ancient Jewish food laws.  The Jewish people celebrate the same life events in the same ways as their ancestors; they celebrate the same ancient festivals and holy days; they sing the same prayers, some thousands of years old; they follow the same system of laws; they wear the same traditional clothing; they name their children the same traditional names; they bury their dead in the same traditional ways.  

See, the very test that you use to deny your German culture (while confirming your German ancestry) is the test which proves you wrong about the Jewish people.  The.  Very.  Same.  Test. 

So you get it.


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> Surge of East Jerusalemites getting citizenship still leaves lion’s share in limbo


According to your own link...

_Currently, there are some 350,000 Arab East Jerusalemites, around 37 percent of the capital’s population. As permanent residents, they pay taxes and are entitled to state benefits like healthcare and social security._
_
However, they cannot vote in national elections, apply for an Israeli passport, or run for mayor in their own city. _​


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Ignorant Billo,
> 
> There are many on this thread who have either been born in Israel or actually live now in Israel.   They know that you are full of it about wanting to call Israel an apartheid country.  And so are the Black South Africans who have been there, whom you respect as much as you do the Jews in Israel.
> 
> 
> Global Research, a anti Israel conspiracy theory site is your source for that Fantastic article?
> 
> Thanks for the laugh
> 
> And thank you for never dealing with how Jews were expelled from their homes and lands during the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 to 1948 and how ALL of those lands became Muslim Arab only territories.
> 
> And some people really think they have the "right" to destroy Jewish History, Israel and the Jews with their endless conspiracies and wishful thinking.


You don't live in Israel and you don't speak for them.

Global Research is non-partisan and non-biased.  Besides, ad hominems are not valid rebuttals.

As far as 1920 - 1948, there were over 700,000 Palestinian-Arabs driven from their homes by Jewish terrorist groups.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Surge of East Jerusalemites getting citizenship still leaves lion’s share in limbo
> 
> 
> 
> According to your own link...
> 
> _Currently, there are some 350,000 Arab East Jerusalemites, around 37 percent of the capital’s population. As permanent residents, they pay taxes and are entitled to state benefits like healthcare and social security.
> 
> However, they cannot vote in national elections, apply for an Israeli passport, or run for mayor in their own city. _​
Click to expand...

And what is the issue with the above information?

People who are residents of a country can apply or not apply to become citizens.  And their rights are the same as specified above, as in the US.
And just as in the US, they do not get to vote, get a US passport, or run for any political office of the country.

So, again, what is your issue with Arabs, or any one else, being a resident of Israel, Jerusalem or not,  and choosing not to become citizens of the country?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ignorant Billo,
> 
> There are many on this thread who have either been born in Israel or actually live now in Israel.   They know that you are full of it about wanting to call Israel an apartheid country.  And so are the Black South Africans who have been there, whom you respect as much as you do the Jews in Israel.
> 
> 
> Global Research, a anti Israel conspiracy theory site is your source for that Fantastic article?
> 
> Thanks for the laugh
> 
> And thank you for never dealing with how Jews were expelled from their homes and lands during the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 to 1948 and how ALL of those lands became Muslim Arab only territories.
> 
> And some people really think they have the "right" to destroy Jewish History, Israel and the Jews with their endless conspiracies and wishful thinking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't live in Israel and you don't speak for them.
> 
> Global Research is non-partisan and non-biased.  Besides, ad hominems are not valid rebuttals.
> 
> As far as 1920 - 1948, there were over 700,000 Palestinian-Arabs driven from their homes by Jewish terrorist groups.
Click to expand...

Yes, I will speak for the people of Israel as I do have many relatives there and I do go over there quite often.

Now, you......have never been there and insist that you do know what is going on there.

*Globalresearch - RationalWiki*

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch
Globalresearch is an *"anti-Western" *website that can't distinguish between serious ..... http://www.globalresearch.ca/australia-silences-criticism-of-vaccines-  ...
‎What it thinks it is · ‎Scope · ‎Noted sources · ‎Conspiracy theories

*Journalistic Ethics and Norms: How legitimate is The Centre for ...*

https://www.quora.com/Journalistic-Ethics-and-Norms-How-legitimate-is-The-Centre-...
The Centre for Research on Globalization, also known as the Centre for Global Research and Mondialisation.ca is a *fascist/Kremlin-funded propaganda outlet* ...

----------------

So, anti-western, fascist and funded by the Kremlin is 100% non biased in your mind.  Got it !

And I am not going to rehash when and why the Arabs, not yet known as Only .....Palestinians,  had to leave the homes they lived in, and Only on the southern part of what became Israel.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Yes, I will speak for the people of Israel as I do have many relatives there and I do go over there quite often.
> 
> Now, you......have never been there and insist that you do know what is going on there.
> 
> *Globalresearch - RationalWiki*
> 
> Globalresearch - RationalWiki
> Globalresearch is an *"anti-Western" *website that can't distinguish between serious ..... http://www.globalresearch.ca/australia-silences-criticism-of-vaccines-  ...
> ‎What it thinks it is · ‎Scope · ‎Noted sources · ‎Conspiracy theories
> 
> *Journalistic Ethics and Norms: How legitimate is The Centre for ...*
> 
> https://www.quora.com/Journalistic-Ethics-and-Norms-How-legitimate-is-The-Centre-...
> The Centre for Research on Globalization, also known as the Centre for Global Research and Mondialisation.ca is a *fascist/Kremlin-funded propaganda outlet* ...
> 
> ----------------
> 
> So, anti-western, fascist and funded by the Kremlin is 100% non biased in your mind.  Got it !
> 
> And I am not going to rehash when and why the Arabs, not yet known as Only .....Palestinians,  had to leave the homes they lived in, and Only on the southern part of what became Israel.


Nice smear campaign fail.  I'm sorry, ad hominems are not valid rebuttals.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I will speak for the people of Israel as I do have many relatives there and I do go over there quite often.
> 
> Now, you......have never been there and insist that you do know what is going on there.
> 
> *Globalresearch - RationalWiki*
> 
> Globalresearch - RationalWiki
> Globalresearch is an *"anti-Western" *website that can't distinguish between serious ..... http://www.globalresearch.ca/australia-silences-criticism-of-vaccines-  ...
> ‎What it thinks it is · ‎Scope · ‎Noted sources · ‎Conspiracy theories
> 
> *Journalistic Ethics and Norms: How legitimate is The Centre for ...*
> 
> https://www.quora.com/Journalistic-Ethics-and-Norms-How-legitimate-is-The-Centre-...
> The Centre for Research on Globalization, also known as the Centre for Global Research and Mondialisation.ca is a *fascist/Kremlin-funded propaganda outlet* ...
> 
> ----------------
> 
> So, anti-western, fascist and funded by the Kremlin is 100% non biased in your mind.  Got it !
> 
> And I am not going to rehash when and why the Arabs, not yet known as Only .....Palestinians,  had to leave the homes they lived in, and Only on the southern part of what became Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice smear campaign fail.  I'm sorry, ad hominems are not valid rebuttals.
Click to expand...

"Smear campaign"
LOL

Oh, those who insist in remaining ignorant of the Russian, Iranian and other influences they followed without one inch of intuition.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> "Smear campaign"
> LOL
> 
> Oh, those who insist in remaining ignorant of the Russian, Iranian and other influences they followed without one inch of intuition.


Don't talk to me about influence when you got that piece of shit AIPAC poisoning my government.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Smear campaign"
> LOL
> 
> Oh, those who insist in remaining ignorant of the Russian, Iranian and other influences they followed without one inch of intuition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't talk to me about influence when you got that piece of shit AIPAC poisoning my government.
Click to expand...

Ok, then I will leave you with the Iranian, Russian, Turkish, Saudi,  Chinese, etc organizations to poison "your government".


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## danielpalos

A State of Judea so Judeans can always claim, nobody can tell them to leave, Judea. They really are Jews.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Every Time You Wish Someone 'Happy Hanukkah' You Acknowledge The Historic Jewish Claim On Jerusalem


----------



## Sixties Fan

Typical of the denial of the Jewish right to define Jew-hatred is this article appearing in The Middle East Eye:
 How the IHRA's anti-Semitism definition is a threat to British democracy

_The IHRA definition is yet another tool in the arsenal of Israel’s far-right government and the UK Israel lobby to destroy any possibility of developing an independent approach to Israel-Palestine_The underlying claim is that when Jews want to define Antisemitism, it is really nothing more than an attempt to undermine criticism of Israel.

And now, a similar kind of muzzling of Jewish opinion took place just the other day -- this time affecting how Jews talk about their own holidays.

It started with a tweet about Hanukkah:

(full article online)

First Jews Are Not Allowed To Define Antisemitism - Now We Can't Define Our Holidays!? (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Mindful

Jacob’s final years, spent in Egypt with his reunited family, were the best in his life.

True Joy


----------



## Mindful

Following the Ottoman conquest in 1517, the Land was divided into four districts and attached administratively to the province of Damascus and ruled from Istanbul. At the outset of the Ottoman era, an estimated 1,000 Jewish families lived in the country, mainly in Jerusalem, Nablus (_Shechem_), Hebron, Gaza, Safed (_Tzfat_) and the villages of Galilee. The community was comprised of descendants of Jews who had never left the Land as well as immigrants from North Africa and Europe.

Orderly government, until the death (1566) of Sultan Suleyman the Magificent, brought improvements and stimulated Jewish immigration. Some newcomers settled in Jerusalem, but the majority went to Safed where, by mid-16th century, the Jewish population had risen to about 10,000, and the town had become a thriving textile center as well as the focus of intense intellectual activity. During this period, the study of _Kabbalah_ (Jewish mysticism) flourished, and contemporary clarifications of Jewish law, as codified in the _Shulhan Arukh_, spread throughout the Diaspora from the study houses in Safad.


Ottoman Rule (1517-1917)


----------



## Mindful

_Assyrians conquered the Northern Kingdom of Israel, Samaria, and deported between one and ten of its tribes—between one and ten of the so-called Lost Tribes—for resettlement in their capital, Nineveh, present-day Mosul. But the Assyrian king, Ashur, whom the Mountain Jews associate with Shalmaneser V, mentioned in _II Kings_, grew so enraged by the Israelites for refusing to forsake their God and for the success they had in commerce that he exiled them to the edge of the empire—to the Caucasus Mountains, where they flourished._

_Toward the end of the eighth century BCE, Hoshea, last of the Israelite kings, attempted to gain his kingdom’s independence from Assyria and, as recorded in _II Kings_, stopped paying the official tribute—10 talents of gold, 1,000 talents of silver—upon Shalmeneser V’s ascension to the throne. Shalmaneser V moved to recoup his losses by imprisoning Hoshea, laying siege to Samaria, and seizing the property of between one and ten of its tribes—the property of between one and ten of the so-called Lost Tribes—whom he or his successor, Sargon II, exiled to the edge of the empire—to the Caucasus Mountains, where they flourished. _

Joshua Cohen: 'Me, U, Baku, Quba'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida - Nov. 12, 2018


















Headline: “The [PA Ministry of] Foreign Affairs and Expatriates demands an international investigation on the issue of antiquities theft by the occupation”

    “The [PA] Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Expatriates demanded that UNESCO (UN Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization) and the [UN] World Tourism Organization launch a serious investigation on the issue of the Israeli crimes against the Palestinian antiquities, as they are severe violations of international law… The ministry explained yesterday [Nov. 11, 2018] that the investigation would be a prelude to pressure on the occupation authorities to return all of the archaeological items that they have taken over by force, and stopping the falsification or Judaization of these archaeological sites. [The ministry] noted that ‘the settler tourism’ that Israel’s official establishment is organizing, supervising, and funding in cooperation with the settler councils in the occupied West Bank, through a group of the settlement associations that are active in the field of tourism… has escalated recently, and the colonialist mentality is not stopping here, but rather is moving on to also taking over the archaeological and tourist sites, stealing the Palestinian antiquities, and presenting them – both in Israel and outside of it – as ‘antiquities that were found in the West Bank’ in order to establish the occupation’s narrative and its so-called rights to the Palestinian land.”


PA Foreign Ministry accuses Israel of stealing archeological artifacts and carrying out “falsification or Judaization” of archeological sites - Jewish history in Land of Israel erased | PMW


----------



## Sixties Fan

Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida - Nov. 4, 2018

















_Excerpt of op-ed by Muwaffaq Matar, a Fatah Revolutionary Council member and regular columnist for the official PA daily_

Headline: "The third promise after Balfour and Trump"

     "The Palestinian patriot has promised his historical and natural land that he will liberate it, and promised his people that he will achieve freedom, independence, and sovereignty, and that Jerusalem will remain the eternal capital of Palestine. The eternal promise was and will remain… as long as the sun shines on the world. Regarding the three promises, they are transient…
With the passing of 100 years since the Balfour Promise (i.e., Declaration), the message must be conveyed to the Jewish Israelis, and particularly those among them who were and still are victims of systematic fraud. We say to them with full sincerity: You are victims of a plan of fraud by the greatest colonial powers in the world, since British Foreign Secretary [Arthur] Balfour made a promise to your foreign forefathers who have no right to the land of our homeland Palestine, and until [US President Donald] Trump, who promised you to destroy our spirit, our culture, and our identity when he realized his promise to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of your state… Jewish Israelis, what you need to know is that Great Britain scorned your human value when it used your forefathers as a colonial pawn in the region. That is what Balfour did, who whispered to you unprecedented hatred and prevented you from seeking refuge in Britain during the period when you fled from the rest of Europe. All Balfour did was to export your problem to our land, and colonialist Britain did indeed succeed in using you.

(full article online)

PA daily op-ed to Jewish Israelis: “You are victims of a plan of fraud” by the “colonial powers” since Balfour “made a promise to your foreign forefathers who have no right to the land of our homeland Palestine” - Jewish history in Land of Israel erased | PMW


----------



## Sixties Fan

Iranian Sheikh Sadiq Akhvan said that no story has led Islamic scholars and historians into a trap laid by the Jews as much as the story of the massacre of the Jewish tribe of Banu Qurayza in Medina, which he said is "another Holocaust-like lie." He said that the Jews are infamous for fabricating myths. Sheikh Akhvan added that the Jews should have established Israel in Germany or Britain instead of Palestine. His remarks aired on Al-Kawthar TV (Iran) on November 17, 2018. Following are excerpt...

(full article  and video online)

Iranian Sheikh Sadiq Akhvan: Massacre of Jewish Banu Qurayza Tribe Is a Holocaust-Like Fabrication by the Jews


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Ministry of Foreign Affairs issued a statement about supposed Israeli "Judaizing" of the city of Jerusalem.

One of the accusations is that Israeli actions in Jerusalem "give the impression to any visitor that it is a Jewish biblical city featuring continuous [Jewish]  presence and Jewish heritage."

Well, yeah. Because it is. For some 3000 years. Except for some very brief time periods where Jews were specifically expelled because of their cultural and religious ties to Jerusalem, as they were ethnically cleansed from the Old City for a mere 19 years in 1948.

This statement reveals more than it intends. Because rather than Jews trying to Judaize Jerusalem - a city that has been the Jewish capital and center of Jewish existence since King David - the Palestinians are trying to separate Jews and Judaism from Jerusalem.

(full article online)

Palestinian government accuses Israel of pretending Jerusalem has been a Jewish city since Biblical times ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ The Holocaust never happened, Auchswitz never existed, so on and so forth ]

One of the protesters told her that Auschwitz never existed. Nobody on the train stood up in her defense, according to _JTA_.

(full article online)

French woman confronts anti-Semitic protesters in Paris


----------



## Sixties Fan

For years, the Palestinian Authority and Fatah have presented Jesus as a Palestinian, as part of its fabricating an ancient Palestinian history.

This year was no exception. On the occasion of Christmas, a top Fatah official spoke of Jesus as "the first Palestinian" and "'Christmas is one of the permanent Palestinian symbols."

In their historical revision, the PA and Fatah ignore that Jesus was a Jew ("Judean") according to Christian tradition and that the Roman Empire changed the name of the land Judea into "Palestine" only a hundred years after Jesus lived. In spite of the dishonesty, senior PA and Fatah leaders have consistently presented Jesus and his mother Mary as Palestinians and Jesus as "the first Palestinian Martyr," and the first Palestinian refugee, as documented by Palestinian Media Watch. 

The following is a statement from PLO Executive Committee member and Fatah Central Committee member Azzam Al-Ahmad yesterday at Khan Al-Ahmar, a site where Palestinian Bedouins have illegally erected buildings and dwellings. 

"The lighting of the Christmas tree each year has many meanings in Palestine... Christmas is one of the permanent Palestinian symbols, and the whole world follows Mass in Bethlehem...
The children of Khan Al-Ahmar are happy about the lighting of this tree, as it is the symbol of the first Palestinian, Jesus, peace be upon him. We, the members of the Palestinian people, are celebrating Christmas together with everyone in the land of Palestine...'

The same false claims about Jesus were repeated by Secretary-General of the National Initiative [and PA Parliament member] Mustafa Barghouti:

"Jesus, who was born on this land, was a Palestinian and defeated his suffering."
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Dec. 20, 2018]

A few among the many examples of PA and Fatah leaders calling Jesus a Palestinian include:

*PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas* stated that: "We celebrate the birth of Jesus, a Palestinian messenger of love, justice and peace." [WAFA, Dec. 22, 2014] 

(full article online)

Christmas is a "Palestinian symbol" and "Jesus was the first Palestinian," says senior Fatah leader - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

At Jerusalem's Bible Lands Museum ahead of the December 30 Finds Gone Astray exhibit, six incantation bowls, three with a Jewish Aramaic inscription, three in Syrian Aramaic, which originate from southern Mesopotamia and date to the 5th–7th centuries CE. (Amanda Borschel-Dan/Times of Israel)

Artifacts stolen and smuggled in the West Bank now on display in Jerusalem


----------



## Sixties Fan

Egypt remains riled up at the article written by Fatima Naoot on December 10 that blames the nation for expelling its Jews.

Historians, politicians and journalists are falling over themselves to "prove" that when tens of thousands of Jews left the country in the 1950s and 1960s, they all left voluntarily or were spies. But Egypt loved its Jews.

This is a lie. Under Nasser, Egypt systematically reduced and eliminated the rights of Jews.

Here is a small part of M. M. Laskier, , Egyptian Jewry under the Nasser regime, 1956–70, published in Middle Eastern Studies, 1995. These sections only deal with expulsions in 1956.
-----------
 " But the 1956 Law did not stop at these stipulations. It went on to impose special disabilities expressly upon Jews alone. Article 1 further stipulated that: _Neither Zionists nor those against whom a judgement has been handed down for crimes of disloyalty to the country or for treason, shall be covered by this provision_.
To make the intent of this provision clear beyond doubt, Article 1 added that:
_No request for the delivery of a certificate of Egyptian nationality will be accepted from persons known as
 Zionists .. ."

_
   To the best of our knowledge, this was the first instance in the history of law where the concept of Zionism was applied in a nationality statute as a criterion of citizenship and as an indirect basis for denaturalization. Since the law furnished no definition whatsoever of the term 'Zionist', it was obvious that the Egyptian authorities could apply this provision at will to any person of the Jewish faith.

(full article online)

Egypt denies mistreating Jews in the 50s and 60s. They are lying. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Oi va voi !!  ]

Later, the article continues:

"In St. Luke’s Gospel, Mary and Joseph travel from Nazareth to Bethlehem during her pregnancy. Bethlehem was a tiny village, Strauss said, too small to support an inn. The couple probably stopped at the house of a relative, or a relative’s friend.

*Palestinian homes* commonly had sleeping quarters upstairs, with ground floor space for domesticated creatures."

The homes of Mary and Joseph’s relatives, or relatives’ friends, were not “Palestinian.” They were Judean. During the time of Joseph and Mary, the region in which Bethlehem is located was known, including by its inhabitants, as Judaea (per the Latin spelling) and not Palestine. 

As _The New York Times_ noted in a June 20, 2008 correction, Romans renamed the region “Palaestina” some 100 years after Jesus died:


"The Malula Journal article on April 22, about efforts in the village of Malula, Syria, and two neighboring villages to preserve Aramaic, the language spoken by Jesus, referred incorrectly to the name of the region where Jesus spent most of his time. It was Galilee — not Palestine, which derives from the word Palestina, the name that Roman conquerors gave to the region more than 100 years after Jesus’s death. The error was pointed out by a reader in an e-mail message on Monday_."_

_The Los Angeles Times_ has likewise previously published a correction on the identical point. _The Times’ _Sept. 28, 2011 correction states:

"   *“Ben-Hur”:* A Sept. 26 Calendar section article about a new DVD and Blu-ray release of the 1959 film “Ben-Hur” described the title character, played by Charlton Heston, as a Palestinian nobleman. 
The character Ben-Hur was a Jew from Judea who lived long before the place now known as Palestine was given that name."


(full article online)

San Diego Union-Tribune's 'Christmyth': Jesus' Relatives Were Palestinian


----------



## Mindful

A catastrophic 1985 earthquake that killed thousands of people in Mexico City and destroyed the (back-then) Jewish neighborhoods of Roma and Condesa also left the archives of the Ashkenazi community in a state of complete disarray, stashed away in makeshift boxes in the damp and dark basement of the Nidje Israel synagogue, colloquially known as Acapulco 70 for its street address. In the early 1990s, Alicia Gojman de Backal, a history professor at the National University of Mexico, decided to make sense of this archival nightmare. 

The result was _Generations of Jews in Mexico_a seven-tome encyclopedic history of the Ashkenazi community in Mexico published in 1993 and the birth of Mexico City’s Jewish Documentation Center, which will reopen this week in its new home in the historical Rodfe Sedek synagogue.


New Jewish Documentation Center, Containing 100 Years of Jewish Life in Mexico City, Opens This Week


----------



## Sixties Fan

I've seen many such articles astonished at the chutzpah that the usurping Jews have to demand compensation from innocent Arabs.

It is no surprise that the Arabs, who routinely deny the Holocaust, who deny their historic antisemitism and who deny any Jewish connection to the land of Israel, would also deny that they ever did anything to force the Jews to leave their countries.

(full article online)

Arabs engaging in "Jewish ethnic cleansing denial" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Academic Distorts History on Anniversary of Gaza Operation | HonestReporting


----------



## Sixties Fan

Once Again, Arabs Deny Ethnically Cleansing Jews


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to an Egyptian newspaper, the Rothschild family knew of these unimaginable riches worth hundreds of billions of dollars, and that was the reason that they forced the British government to issue the Balfour Declaration to Lord Rothschild.

The writer of the paper takes pains to say that ordinary Jews, and even ordinary Israelis, don't necessarily know about this - even though, we are told, they are really Khazars and not Jews. But the Zionist leaders manipulated the media and the Jews in order to make it appear that Jews always wanted to return to Israel even though that is complete fiction made up "more than fifty years ago." It was all to cover up the Rothschild's greed for Dead Sea riches.

(full article online)

Egyptian paper says Rothschilds stole billions in Dead Sea gold and minerals ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Mindful

*Arabia*

*Judaism*

The most well-known monotheists were the Hebrews, although the Persians and the Medes had also developed monotheism. Judaism is one of the oldest monotheistic religions.

A thriving community of Jewish tribes existed in pre-Islamic Arabia and included both sedentary and nomadic communities. Jews migrated into Arabia starting Roman times. Arabian Jews spoke Arabic as well as Hebrew and Aramaic and had contact with Jewish religious centers in Babylonia and Palestine. The Yemeni Himyarites converted to Judaism in the 4th century, and some of the Kindah, a tribe in central Arabia who were the Himyarites’ vassals, were also converted in the 4th/5th century. 

There is evidence that Jewish converts in the Hejaz were regarded as Jews by other Jews and non-Jews alike, and sought advice from Babylonian rabbis on matters of attire and kosher food. In at least one case, it is known that an Arab tribe agreed to adopt Judaism as a condition for settling in a town dominated by Jewish inhabitants. Some Arab women in Yathrib/Medina are said to have vowed to make their child a Jew if the child survived, since they considered the Jews to be people “of knowledge and the book.” Historian Philip Hitti infers from proper names and agricultural vocabulary that the Jewish tribes of Yathrib consisted mostly of Judaized clans of Arabian and Aramaean origin.

Culture and Religion in Pre-Islamic Arabia | World Civilization


----------



## Sixties Fan

Controversy is the bread and butter of radical left-wing anti-Israel groups. The key is to grab the headlines, whether it is by preventing pro-Israel speakers from speaking, attacking groups like Hillel and Birthright for an alleged lack of balance, or saying Kaddish for terrorists.

So it is really not all that surprising that often facts they claim to give are full of sloppiness and outright fabrications.

Take for instance Jewish Voice for Peace and their Jews From The Middle East Fact Sheet, which adopts both anti-Israel and pro-Arab narratives.

(full article online)

Jewish Voice for Peace: Sloppy With Facts, But Adept With Fabrications (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Condemnation of alleged Israeli aggression has long been a standard talking point in the United Nations; that alone did not set off any alarms. What disturbed Israelis about the UNESCO resolution was that it made Jerusalem’s Holy Basin an exclusively Islamic prerogative. By only referring to the Temple Mount by its Arabic name “Al-Haram al-Sharif,” the resolution’s language severed ties between Judaism and the Temple Mount. The Western Wall was reduced to Al-Buraq Plaza — the place where Muhammad tethered his horse.

In the resolution, the Arabic name was only twice followed by the Western Wall’s Hebrew name; but when that happened, it was placed in quotation marks — a grammatical detail that Israelis took as direct belittling of Judaism’s linkage to the site.

The resolution made no mention of the Jewish temples that stood at the site for a thousand years, or the next 2,000 years of continuous Jewish attachment to Jerusalem. Only once did the drafters soften their bias by making a generalized reference to the importance of the Old City and its walls to “the three monotheistic religions.”

(full article online)

Why the US and Israel Were Right to Leave UNESCO


----------



## Mindful

*Holy Tongues.*

Laurie Anderson was right: Language is a virus.

When we speak to each other, we aren’t just delivering information, dry and useful and unadorned. Instead, we infect each other: With ideas, with passions, with dislikes that run much deeper than anything rational could ever predict. That’s why, here on earth, words remain among the most sacred objects we still possess.

Today, we’ve three stories about holy tongues: One that celebrates a strange and enduring epic Yiddish poem about Jewish life in… Kentucky?; one that reanimates the wondrous Kabbalistic book that became one of modern Hebrew’s earliest best-sellers; and one that recalls a father who liked to bet and found numeric inspiration in the Bible.


Holy Tongues Archives - Tablet Magazine


----------



## Sixties Fan

The following is one of the most bombastic quotes from the Amnesty report:

“The City of David National Park is already one of the most visited attractions in Israel. In 2017, it received 17.5% of all foreign visitors (some 630,000 people).205 Hundreds of thousands of Israelis also visit the site each year, including many groups of school children, students and soldiers, helping to entrench the settlers’ presence in the area. As with the other sites managed by settlers described above, Elad presents a distorted historical narrative of the area, *emphasizing the Jewish people’s roots in the area while excluding those of Palestinian residents*.”

Are they serious? The City of David is the ancient city of Jerusalem right outside the Old City walls. It is the place where the first Jewish Kingdom began, where King David sat and ruled over the Jews of Judea! That is where it all began, and yet Amnesty has written up that the Jews have no connection to the City of David!

(full article online)

Amnesty International Goes Full Blown Antisemitic


----------



## Sixties Fan

Episode 11: Amnesty International’s Campaign Denying Jewish History


----------



## Sixties Fan

Preacher at Al-Aqsa Mosque: “Jerusalem and the Al-Aqsa Mosque are subject to renewed danger… by erasing the characteristics of the holy city and changing its Islamic Arab identity, falsifying its history” - Jerusalem's Temple/Jewish history denied | PMW


----------



## Sixties Fan

The latest Palestinian lie – "We are all Mary"


----------



## Sixties Fan

Publisher which previously released textbooks accusing Israelis of ethnic cleansing prints new textbooks omitting Jewish ties to Jerusalem.

(full article online)

Dutch textbook leaves out Jewish ties to Jerusalem


----------



## Sixties Fan

It's time to acknowledge the Arab heritage of many Israeli Jews | Opinion


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Israel and Palestine
⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,

Sometimes, not always, the assimilation of cultures → the immigation of one in to the other → becomes difficult.  The Irish and the Italians, as well as any of the Asians _(most Chinese, but also Korean, Vietnamese, Philipino, etc etc etc),_ had trouble in America.  The American Indians also continue to have difficulty in assimilation; along with other Americans of color.  Many culture in the Americas 

Examples of the difficulties in the assimulation of through-out the Americ's is a matter of history.



Sixties Fan said:


> It's time to acknowledge the Arab heritage of many Israeli Jews | Opinion


*(COMMENT)*

this is another one of those problems in Israel, of a domestic nature. 

No one claimed Israel is prefect.  Like all of the adjacent Arab League neighbors, no country is perfect.  It is what it is.  I notice that Jordan and Lebanon has some difficulty with the assimilation of the  Arab Palestinians.  Just try being an equal citizen with the Saudi's  or Kuwaiti's.  That won't happen.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Head of the Supreme Islamic Council in Jerusalem says there's not a single rock at the Western Wall which is connected to Jewish history.

(full article online)

Islamic cleric: Don't call it the Western Wall


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  The Right To Destroy Jewish History 
⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

I really have no idea WHAT the Imam of the Blessed Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa _[Sheikh (Dr) Ekrima Sa'id Sabri, and a Yasser Arafat remnant]_ could possibly base such a ruling.  On what basis does the Imam even have Jurisdiction to make such official claims?  On what logic or evidence does the Imam have that would suggest that this wall was not erected by the Hebrews and restored by the Hebrews _[The Governor of Judah, Zerubbabel (supposedly a descendant of King David) initiated the reconstruction project]_ → in the time of Herod the Great; and the Second Temple?



Sixties Fan said:


> Head of the Supreme Islamic Council in Jerusalem says there's not a single rock at the Western Wall which is connected to Jewish history.
> Islamic cleric: Don't call it the Western Wall


*(COMMENT)*

I think that there can always be brought further clarification and more detail in historical records.   But the Imam (I think) is writing a new version of the historical events - Revisionist History.  This obvious new claim by the Arab Palestinians is so outrageous, as to casts into question the reliability of any claim made by the Arab Palestinians.   It brings into question any ruling made by the Office of the Supreme Islamic Council - Jerusalem.  It is evidence that the anti-Israeli politics of the Arab Palestinian - has corrupted the impartial view and honesty of the Islamic Legal Systems.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

RoccoR said:


> RE:  The Right To Destroy Jewish History
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> I really have no idea WHAT the Imam of the Blessed Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa _[Sheikh (Dr) Ekrima Sa'id Sabri, and a Yasser Arafat remnant]_ could possibly base such a ruling.  On what basis does the Imam even have Jurisdiction to make such official claims?  On what logic or evidence does the Imam have that would suggest that this wall was not erected by the Hebrews and restored by the Hebrews _[The Governor of Judah, Zerubbabel (supposedly a descendant of King David) initiated the reconstruction project]_ → in the time of Herod the Great; and the Second Temple?
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Head of the Supreme Islamic Council in Jerusalem says there's not a single rock at the Western Wall which is connected to Jewish history.
> Islamic cleric: Don't call it the Western Wall
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I think that there can always be brought further clarification and more detail in historical records.   But the Imam (I think) is writing a new version of the historical events - Revisionist History.  This obvious new claim by the Arab Palestinians is so outrageous, as to casts into question the reliability of any claim made by the Arab Palestinians.   It brings into question any ruling made by the Office of the Supreme Islamic Council - Jerusalem.  It is evidence that the anti-Israeli politics of the Arab Palestinian - has corrupted the impartial view and honesty of the Islamic Legal Systems.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

They are Muslims.  They are masters of the Jews.

That is all it takes.


----------



## Mindful




----------



## Sixties Fan

Amnesty International has long sought to isolate Israel by lobbying governments, international bodies, and civil society to adopt boycotts against the Jewish state.

The organization reached new levels of discrimination in its recent report, “Digital Tourism and Israel’s Illegal Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territories.” In it, the international NGO superpower attempts to criminalize Jewish and Christian tourism to holy sites in Jerusalem and the West Bank, erasing the Bible, and denying the Jewish people’s connection to its historic homeland.

For Amnesty, biblical sites in particular, alongside other locations of importance and interest in Jerusalem and the West Bank, are inconvenient, legitimizing Israel’s historical narrative as the nation-state of the Jewish people. Regardless of the political future of these areas, there can be no denying their historic Jewish significance. Amnesty, however, is attempting to sever, erase, and even ban these ties.

In diminishing these religious and cultural connections, Amnesty accuses Israel of creating a “settlement tourism industry” to help “sustain and expand” communities beyond the Green Line. Israel’s interest in Jewish archaeology is reduced to artificial manipulation, used “to make the link between the modern State of Israel and its Jewish history explicit,” while “rewriting of history [which] has the effect of minimizing the Palestinian people’s own historic links to the region.”

The possibility that Jews and Christians would visit holy sites, and want to see archaeological remnants of biblical locations for their religious and historical significance, is not entertained.

The timing of this publication is not coincidental. As emphasized in the report’s recommendations, it is clearly calibrated to advance a proposed UN Human Rights Council “blacklist” of companies operating in Israel and the West Bank.

(full article online)

Amnesty tries banning Jewish history


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

The Oslo II Accord, as well as subsequent agreements, grant the Palestinian Authority limited control over certain landmarks and nature reserves in Judea and Samaria at the discretion of Israeli authorities and only if the PA commits to coordinating the administration of the areas with Israeli forces.

The 1995 agreement, which has been only partially implemented, says that "the two sides shall each take appropriate measures in order to protect Nature Reserves, Protected Natural Assets and species of animals, plants and flowers of special breeds, as well as to implement rules of behavior in Nature Reserves."

But recent steps taken by the Palestinians suggest that PA officials have been flouting those provisions.

As part of this rogue behavior, the PA has recently placed a sign at Arugot Stream, which runs from west to east in Judea, calling it Al-Kanub Reserve. The sign states that the EU and the U.N. help support the administration of the site.

The PA has also set up a new website called Mahmiyat (which means nature reserves in Arabic), which provides tourist information on the various landmarks in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip. The descriptions obscure the Jewish links to those landmarks dating to biblical times.

For example, the site does not mention that the ancient city of Sebastia in Samaria served as the capital of the Kingdom of Israel for two centuries.

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/2019/02/19/pa-deletes-jewish-history-from-key-sites-in-judea-and-samaria/


----------



## Sixties Fan

BBC Arabic’s tendentious Hebron feature – part one

BBC Arabic’s tendentious Hebron feature – part two


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel’s second president Yitzhak Ben-Zvi was a scholar who wrote the book, The Peoples of Our Land in 1932. In it, he states that west of the Jordan River, 277 villages and sites—almost two-thirds of all sites—had names that were similar to or the same as Jewish villages in these locations during Second Temple times.

Moreover, one-quarter of the 584 Arab localities in Israel and beyond the Green Line have ancient biblical names. For example, Sakhnin was a Jewish town during the Talmudic era, and Beit Lechem is the Hebrew name for the biblical city of Bethlehem (“Ancient Place Names in Israel” by Daniela Santus in Proceedings of the Conference, The Cultural Turn in Geography, 18-20th of September 2003–Gorizia Campus, Part II: Landscape Construction and Cultural Identity).

Hebron (Arabic: al-Khalil; Hebrew: Chevron, which means “friend”) in the Judean Mountains is the second-largest city under Palestinian Arab control after Gaza, and it is one of the four Jewish holy cities (the others being Jerusalem, Tzfat and Tiberias). Most significantly, it contains Judaism’s second most holy site, the Cave of Machpelah, purchased by Abraham. It is here that Judaism’s Patriarchs and three of its Matriarchs are buried. (JewishVirtuallibrary.org). Another large Palestinian Arab city, Nablus, whose Hebrew name is Shechem, is derived from the Greek, Neopolis.

Other examples of Arab towns with names derived from the Hebrew Bible: Beit Jalla is the Jerusalem neighborhood of Gilo, Jenin was Ein Ganim, Silwan was Shiloach, Selum was Shilo (one of the first capitals of ancient Israel), Tequa is Tekoa (the Prophet Amos’s hometown), Anatawas Anatot (the Prophet Jeremiah’s hometown), Batir was Beitar, Beitinwas Beit El (as named by Jacob himself), Jaba was Geva, Mukhmas is Michmash (King Saul’s fortress) and El-Jib was Giv’on (where the sun stood still).

According to Tsvi Misinai, author of Brother Shall Not Lift Sword Against Brother, many of the Arab villages and towns in the area have names that are not only not Arabic, but also rarely appear in other Arab lands. Among such names are Kafr Yasif, Kafr Kana, Kafr Yatta, Kafr Manda, Kaft Samia and others.

A closer examination reveals an additional irony: Most Arab countries bordering Israel derive their names from the Hebrew Bible. Lebanon, Levanon, means “white” in Hebrew, referring to the snow cover of the surrounding mountains. Syria, Siryon, in the Bible is the alternate name for Mount Hermon. Jordan/River Jordan (Yarden in Hebrew) takes its name from the Israelite tribe of Dan and means “descends from Dan.” Gaza, Azza in Hebrew, is mentioned in Genesis and the book of Judges with the Samson narrative.

So, to counter those who attempt to disassociate the Jews from the Land of Israel and claim that they are interlopers and colonizers, the proof is also in the pudding: the names. Use this information to make the media, academia and politicians be honest, accurate and accountable.

(full article online)

What’s in a name? Hebrew origins of Palestinian Arab towns in Judea-Samaria


----------



## Sixties Fan

_On February 1, 2019, several days after International Holocaust Remembrance Day, Osama Al-Alfi, a former deputy editor of the Egyptian government daily _Al-Ahram_and now a columnist for the daily, published a column titled "The Truth about the Holocaust." Citing several Holocaust deniers, he claimed the Holocaust was a deception used by the Zionist movement to take over Palestine as the starting point of its plan to take over the world's resources and politics. He added that the Zionists have managed to "intimidate all the champions of the truth" through persecution and lawsuits._

(full article online)

'Al-Ahram' Columnist: The Holocaust Is A Deception Used By The Zionists To Take Over The World


----------



## Sixties Fan

One Street in Hebron? One Street? Really, BBC? One Street? | Israel Diaries


----------



## danielpalos

Sixties Fan said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  The Right To Destroy Jewish History
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> I really have no idea WHAT the Imam of the Blessed Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa _[Sheikh (Dr) Ekrima Sa'id Sabri, and a Yasser Arafat remnant]_ could possibly base such a ruling.  On what basis does the Imam even have Jurisdiction to make such official claims?  On what logic or evidence does the Imam have that would suggest that this wall was not erected by the Hebrews and restored by the Hebrews _[The Governor of Judah, Zerubbabel (supposedly a descendant of King David) initiated the reconstruction project]_ → in the time of Herod the Great; and the Second Temple?
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Head of the Supreme Islamic Council in Jerusalem says there's not a single rock at the Western Wall which is connected to Jewish history.
> Islamic cleric: Don't call it the Western Wall
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I think that there can always be brought further clarification and more detail in historical records.   But the Imam (I think) is writing a new version of the historical events - Revisionist History.  This obvious new claim by the Arab Palestinians is so outrageous, as to casts into question the reliability of any claim made by the Arab Palestinians.   It brings into question any ruling made by the Office of the Supreme Islamic Council - Jerusalem.  It is evidence that the anti-Israeli politics of the Arab Palestinian - has corrupted the impartial view and honesty of the Islamic Legal Systems.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are Muslims.  They are masters of the Jews.
> 
> That is all it takes.
Click to expand...

The Religious should convince us with the "force of Prayer" not the force of Arms.


----------



## rylah

*In the Shadow of the "Status Quo", land preserves in Area C are being stolen away*

The Sovereignty Movement's warnings about Israel's lack of action because of the absence of sovereignty and in light of what is happening in Area C in the shadow of the "status quo" have received more concerning confirmation: The Palestinian Authority is extending its jurisdiction over preserves in Area C, an area where it has no authority, and erases Jewish history of archaeological sites from its internet site. This was reported by the newspaper Israel Hayom (Feb. 19, 2019).

Thus, for example, the Palestinian Authority recently placed a large sign on the Nahal Arugot Preserve in east Gush Etzion, declaring the place to be the nature preserve "Al-Kanub". The sign names the European Union and the UN as sponsors. And this phenomenon is occurring in other nature preserves in Judea and Samaria.







At the same time, in an internet site called "Mahmiyat" ("Preserves" in Arabic) established by the PA, there is an interactive map detailing interesting archaeological sites to visit in Judea and Samaria. The archaeological sites contain historical information about the site but the Jewish-biblical historical name of the sites is almost entirely omitted.

Thus, for example, on the internet page for the city of Sebastiya (Shomron), which was the capital city of the Kingdom of Israel for approximately two hundred years, and where the palace of King Ahab is located, there is no mention of this fact. It also says that in the archaeological internet site, one can read about the Old City, the Temple of Augustus, the Church of St. John, a Roman theater and forum and more.  The reference to the observation point from Har Grizim does not relate at all to the connection between the Samaritans and the People of Israel; it only mentions that the Samaritans were an ethnic minority close to Judaism.

The newspaper quotes the words of the Regavim coordinator of activities for the area of Judea and Samaria, Yishai Hemo: "It is totally clear that this is not an innocent attempt to conserve nature and the environment, but a totally political and cynical act by the Palestinian Authority, and the proof is that the preserves that are located within the area of the Palestinian Authority suffer endless harm to the environment, quarries, illegal building, polluted landfills and more".

Full article: In the Shadow of the "Status quo"





(Nahal Arugot Preserve)


----------



## Sixties Fan

While Israel preserves Al-Aqsa and the Dome of the Rock, Arabs have proven that they cannot be trusted to respect Jewish Holy sites.

(full article online)

Arabs continue destroying Jewish archaeology on the Temple Mount


----------



## Sixties Fan

" Our Jewish history is not only one of persecution, oppression and fear. We also have a rich history of resistance and solidarity. Jews have survived in diaspora for thousands of years, largely through solidarity with other oppressed groups. We do not need to support Israel at all costs to stay safe."


 Really? Jews have been largely safe in the Diaspora because of solidarity with other oppressed groups?

Can IfNotNow name a single time in 2000 years that a pogrom or massacre was averted because of some other oppressed group sticking their necks out to save the Jews?

(full article online)

Now @IfNotNowOrg romanticizes the Diaspora to justify hating Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## rylah

*Code Name: "The Awakening of the Gate of Mercy" - the most severe crisis since the metal detectors affair*

The Jerusalem police arrested Sheikh Abd al-'Azim Salhab, chairman of the new Islamic Waqf council, and Sheikh Najah, the deputy head of the Waqf administration on the Temple Mount.

Last Friday, in a well-organized operation of the new Islamic Waqf Council, which was shared by Jordan and the PA, which was dubbed the "Awakening of the Gate of Mercy" (Al-Rahma Arabic), thousands of Muslim worshipers took over the Temple of Mercy on the Temple Mount, The Palestinian flag on its roof and held a mass prayer after it had been closed for the last 16 years.

According to a report on Al-Jazeera, the head of the new Waqf Council Sheikh Abd al-'Azim Salhab, Mufti Muhammad Hussein, Adnan al-Husseini, the minister of Jerusalem affairs in the PA, and Fatah chief Hatem Abd al-Qader physically led the thousands of worshipers to the Sha'ar HaRachamim Friday at the Temple Mount.

The Islamic Waqf Council began cleaning work at the Sha'ar HaRachamim compound after prayers and the council head Sheikh Salhab announced that the building would remain open to the worshipers and that the council would begin renovations to turn the building into a large prayer house.

According to Waqf officials, the decision was made at the first meeting Of the new council on February 14, the council members even visited the site and were impressed by what was happening on the ground. One of the reasons for the decision was that Israel should be preceded by a desire to build a synagogue there.

Israel preferred not to confront the thousands of worshipers. The Jerusalem Police evacuated the police station on the roof of the Sha'ar HaRachamim building last Thursday. Police held preventive arrests in East Jerusalem of about 60 activists on the Temple Mount, but the arrests did not prevent the takeover of the Gate of Mercy.

The Palestinians see the takeover of the Temple Gate as another important achievement, after the victory over the crisis of placing the magnumeters at the gates of the Temple Mount in July 2017. In the campaign for control of the Temple Mount and East Jerusalem ahead of the publication of President Trump's "Deal of the Century"

An editorial in the Jerusalem-based Al-Quds newspaper on February 23 defined the campaign on the Gate of Mercy as "another honorable chapter in Palestinian history of struggle and steadfastness."

The Palestinian takeover of the the Gate of Mercy structure is reminiscent of the takeover of the Temple Mount by the northern branch of the Islamic Movement headed by Sheikh Ra'ed Salah on the Temple Mount in 1996, which was renovated and turned into a large mosque. The Palestinian takeover of the Sha'ar HaRachamim building constitutes a change in the status quo that has existed on the Temple Mount in recent years, in a unilateral step coordinated between Jordan and the PA, contrary to Israel's position.





*A new leadership for East Jerusalem residents *
According to senior Fatah figures, one of the goals of the establishment of the new expanded Islamic Waqf Council, in cooperation with PA and Fatah representatives, was a direct lesson from the events of the crisis of placing magnumometers at the Temple Mount gates in July 2017. The Islamic Waqf representatives, The city without the involvement of the PA.

The closure of the Orient House building and the East Jerusalem Chamber of Commerce have created a vacuum over the past few years under the leadership of residents of East Jerusalem. Israel's ban on PA activity in East Jerusalem and the measures taken against Adnan Ghait, governor of the new Jerusalem district on behalf of the PA, increased the vacuum that the new Islamic Waqf Council, which enjoys the support of the royal palace in Jordan and the leadership of the PA, has now stepped in.

Hatem Abd al-Qader, a Fatah activist and a member of the new council, told Al-Agial radio station on February 23 that the new council has a new strategic plan to protect the Al-Aqsa Mosque and Jerusalem. It has many properties in the Old City and houses thousands of houses And it will also fight the phenomenon of home sales to Jews.

According to Fatah sources, the Israeli government will find it difficult to fight the new council, which is supported by Jordan and the PA, since according to an agreement Peace with Jordan Since 1994, the Jordanians have a special status of Custodian of the Holy Places in Jerusalem. However, the unilateral opening of the Gate of Mercy by force in violation of the court order without coordination with Israel constitutes a serious breach of the peace treaty between Jordan and Israel and a breach of the agreement Oslo.

Strengthening the principle of "popular resistance" Senior Fatah officials view the Palestinian takeover of the Temple Mount Gate as another success of the popular resistance strategy advocated by Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas in recent years, namely, widespread popular activity against Israel without the use of firearms. The Islamic Waqf Council adopted the same method as the one used by the police on the Temple Mount in July 2017. It drove thousands of Muslim worshipers to the Gate of Mercy and took control of it, believing that the Jerusalem police would not dare confront them in the Temple Mount compound because of the international implications of such a move. Mustafa Barghouti, secretary-general of the Palestinian Initiative, said that the recent events "are proof of the strength of the popular resistance that must be strengthened and extended to all of Palestine." The Palestinians are now waiting to see the response of the Israeli government to their takeover of the Sha'ar HaRachamim compound, which is a serious blow to Israeli sovereignty over the Temple Mount. If Israel does not respond appropriately, this will be considered weakness and this has important implications for the continuation of the struggle for control over the Temple Mount and East Jerusalem President Trump's "Deal of the Century".






Jerusalem Center of Public and Strategic Affairs - "The Awakening of the Gate of Mercy"


----------



## rylah

*Arabs continue destroying Jewish archeology on the Temple Mount*
While Israel preserves Al-Aqsa and the Dome of the Rock, Arabs have proven that they cannot be trusted to respect Jewish Holy sites.

On February 22, 2019 Arutz Sheva reported “Hundreds of Arabs arriving for Friday prayers breached the Golden Gate and entered the site."  Palestinian Arabs clashed with Israeli police on Jerusalem's Temple Mount, trying to force their way into an area that has been closed for 16 years.  The incident follows a similar confrontation the same week.

The area near the Gate of Mercy, or Golden Gate, was sealed by Israeli authorities in 2003 and it has been kept closed to stop illegal construction work there by the Waqf, which Israeli officials believe has led to the destruction of antiquities from periods of Jewish presence in the area.”

The Arabs shouted incitement against Jews and breached the area…”

On February 19, 2019 Lenny Ben David tweeted "… Clashes between Palestinians and Israeli police recently took place around the Bab al-Rahma - a large structure inside the Golden Gate that police closed off in 2003 and that the Islamic Waqf wants reopened.     According to Jewish tradition, Sha'ar HaRachamim is the gate through which the Messiah will come… ."

"A rare photo from 1900 from the Library of Congress, captioned 'Interior of Golden Gate,' shows a room with massive columns. The gate dates back to the 7th-8th century CE and was built over an earlier gate. A photo shows the top of the arch of the earlier gate...What's inside the sealed gates between the walls? Rare picture I found circa 1900 suggests that the room and/or columns date back to the Temple. No wonder, the Wakf wants to build a mosque there between the walls..."

See pictures of the Golden Gate (1900) from the Library of Congress in the links below…


Thread by @lennybendavid: "The Wakf wants to take over an important part of Jewish history! Sent in shebab to capture "Bab al-Rahma" for new mosque".


Picture a Day - The Holy Land Revealed
The reason why the Golden Gate was sealed by Israeli authorities in 2003 was because the Islamic Waqf was destroying Jewish Archeological remains in Temple Mount as described and documented below.

Continue reading


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> *Code Name: "The Awakening of the Gate of Mercy" - the most severe crisis since the metal detectors affair*
> 
> The Jerusalem police arrested Sheikh Abd al-'Azim Salhab, chairman of the new Islamic Waqf council, and Sheikh Najah, the deputy head of the Waqf administration on the Temple Mount.
> 
> Last Friday, in a well-organized operation of the new Islamic Waqf Council, which was shared by Jordan and the PA, which was dubbed the "Awakening of the Gate of Mercy" (Al-Rahma Arabic), thousands of Muslim worshipers took over the Temple of Mercy on the Temple Mount, The Palestinian flag on its roof and held a mass prayer after it had been closed for the last 16 years.
> 
> According to a report on Al-Jazeera, the head of the new Waqf Council Sheikh Abd al-'Azim Salhab, Mufti Muhammad Hussein, Adnan al-Husseini, the minister of Jerusalem affairs in the PA, and Fatah chief Hatem Abd al-Qader physically led the thousands of worshipers to the Sha'ar HaRachamim Friday at the Temple Mount.
> 
> The Islamic Waqf Council began cleaning work at the Sha'ar HaRachamim compound after prayers and the council head Sheikh Salhab announced that the building would remain open to the worshipers and that the council would begin renovations to turn the building into a large prayer house.
> 
> According to Waqf officials, the decision was made at the first meeting Of the new council on February 14, the council members even visited the site and were impressed by what was happening on the ground. One of the reasons for the decision was that Israel should be preceded by a desire to build a synagogue there.
> 
> Israel preferred not to confront the thousands of worshipers. The Jerusalem Police evacuated the police station on the roof of the Sha'ar HaRachamim building last Thursday. Police held preventive arrests in East Jerusalem of about 60 activists on the Temple Mount, but the arrests did not prevent the takeover of the Gate of Mercy.
> 
> The Palestinians see the takeover of the Temple Gate as another important achievement, after the victory over the crisis of placing the magnumeters at the gates of the Temple Mount in July 2017. In the campaign for control of the Temple Mount and East Jerusalem ahead of the publication of President Trump's "Deal of the Century"
> 
> An editorial in the Jerusalem-based Al-Quds newspaper on February 23 defined the campaign on the Gate of Mercy as "another honorable chapter in Palestinian history of struggle and steadfastness."
> 
> The Palestinian takeover of the the Gate of Mercy structure is reminiscent of the takeover of the Temple Mount by the northern branch of the Islamic Movement headed by Sheikh Ra'ed Salah on the Temple Mount in 1996, which was renovated and turned into a large mosque. The Palestinian takeover of the Sha'ar HaRachamim building constitutes a change in the status quo that has existed on the Temple Mount in recent years, in a unilateral step coordinated between Jordan and the PA, contrary to Israel's position.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *A new leadership for East Jerusalem residents *
> According to senior Fatah figures, one of the goals of the establishment of the new expanded Islamic Waqf Council, in cooperation with PA and Fatah representatives, was a direct lesson from the events of the crisis of placing magnumometers at the Temple Mount gates in July 2017. The Islamic Waqf representatives, The city without the involvement of the PA.
> 
> The closure of the Orient House building and the East Jerusalem Chamber of Commerce have created a vacuum over the past few years under the leadership of residents of East Jerusalem. Israel's ban on PA activity in East Jerusalem and the measures taken against Adnan Ghait, governor of the new Jerusalem district on behalf of the PA, increased the vacuum that the new Islamic Waqf Council, which enjoys the support of the royal palace in Jordan and the leadership of the PA, has now stepped in.
> 
> Hatem Abd al-Qader, a Fatah activist and a member of the new council, told Al-Agial radio station on February 23 that the new council has a new strategic plan to protect the Al-Aqsa Mosque and Jerusalem. It has many properties in the Old City and houses thousands of houses And it will also fight the phenomenon of home sales to Jews.
> 
> According to Fatah sources, the Israeli government will find it difficult to fight the new council, which is supported by Jordan and the PA, since according to an agreement Peace with Jordan Since 1994, the Jordanians have a special status of Custodian of the Holy Places in Jerusalem. However, the unilateral opening of the Gate of Mercy by force in violation of the court order without coordination with Israel constitutes a serious breach of the peace treaty between Jordan and Israel and a breach of the agreement Oslo.
> 
> Strengthening the principle of "popular resistance" Senior Fatah officials view the Palestinian takeover of the Temple Mount Gate as another success of the popular resistance strategy advocated by Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas in recent years, namely, widespread popular activity against Israel without the use of firearms. The Islamic Waqf Council adopted the same method as the one used by the police on the Temple Mount in July 2017. It drove thousands of Muslim worshipers to the Gate of Mercy and took control of it, believing that the Jerusalem police would not dare confront them in the Temple Mount compound because of the international implications of such a move. Mustafa Barghouti, secretary-general of the Palestinian Initiative, said that the recent events "are proof of the strength of the popular resistance that must be strengthened and extended to all of Palestine." The Palestinians are now waiting to see the response of the Israeli government to their takeover of the Sha'ar HaRachamim compound, which is a serious blow to Israeli sovereignty over the Temple Mount. If Israel does not respond appropriately, this will be considered weakness and this has important implications for the continuation of the struggle for control over the Temple Mount and East Jerusalem President Trump's "Deal of the Century".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jerusalem Center of Public and Strategic Affairs - "The Awakening of the Gate of Mercy"



Oh.  There are SO many problems with this.  I hardly know where to start.  

I have no problem with Muslims accessing and sharing the Temple Mount.  I believe this is in keeping with Jewish theology and G-d's Intent for the the Temple Mount area.  (Of course, with some understandings, but...let's not complicate things here).  It is also fully in accordance with Article 9 of the Jordan/Israel peace treaty.

That said, Israel has an absolute obligation to ensure the protection of places of historical and archaeological value.  Further, Israel has an absolute obligation -- as sovereign -- to ensure the safety and protection of all citizens and visitors to the Holy Places, which includes the obligation to prevent access if necessary or to restrict or monitor access with security precautions.

The complicating factor is that Muslim insistence on exclusivity backed up with terrorism is working.  It HAS made Israel act, or refuse to act, in entirely appropriate ways.  It restricts Israel's action because of the fear of retaliation -- not just of locals, but of the wider Arab world. 

What I would WANT Israel to do is to insist upon equality on the Temple Mount.  Equality of access, equality of prayer, equality of worship, equality of space and buildings.  And I would WANT Israel to continue to exert her sovereignty, yes in co-operation with Jordan.  I want Israel to absolutely, conclusively and physically prevent unilateral actions by Muslims to control the space.  

But would the cost be too great?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Muslim identification with the Jews regarding the Temple Mount is manifest in a rare tradition, which divulges the initial ties to Jewish sentiment, before its dissociation:

_From Kaʿb al-Ahḅ ār, it is written in one of the holy books: “Ayrūshalāyim, which means Jerusalem (Bayt al-Maqdis), and the Rock which is called the Temple (al-haykal). I shall send to you my servant ʿAbd al-Malik, who will build you and adorn you. I shall surely restore to Bayt al-Maqdis its first kingdom, and I shall crown it with gold and silver and gems. And I shall surely send to you my creatures. And I shall surely place my throne of glory on the Rock, since I am the sovereign God, and David is the King of the Children of Israel”.  _

Note the use of the name Ayrūshalayim in its Biblical form, with a translation of the name, and the lām and nūn al-taʾākīd, laying stress on the verbs, and giving it a prophetic aura. The last sentence has clear Jewish connotations. In fact, according to this tradition the temple will be reinstated by ʿAbd al-Malik after which God will once again place his throne of glory there.

The mention of David, the king of the children of Israel here, leaves no doubt that the aim is to restore the ancient Jewish Temple.

This rare tradition exposing the initial connection to Jewish tradition, which was identified as one of the Isrāʾīliyyāt, was later adapted and censured, leaving out David and the Children of Israel.

The idea that God’s throne was located on the rock is an ancient Jewish idea. The Ark of the Covenant was conceived as God’s throne or footstool and Jeremiah prophesies that the whole of Jerusalem will replace the ark as God’s throne (Jer. 3: 16–7). Jewish legend speaks about the “lower throne” which is found underneath the “heavenly throne” and in fact reaches all the way up to it.81 This tradition resonates in Muslim literature as well. Ibn al-Murajjā cites the convert Kaʿb al-Ahḅ ār: “It is said in the Torah that [Allah] said to the Rock of Bayt al-Maqdis: you are my lowest throne and from you I ascended to heaven...”.  Rosen-Ayalon and Shani claim that the inside of the Dome itself in fact attempts to portray the setting of God’s throne. This idea goes hand-in-hand with many other features attributed to the sakhra ̣ or to bayt al-maqdis in Muslim tradition which originate in Jewish tradition.




Muslims have always known that the Temple Mount is the site of the Jewish Temples. The Arabic words to refer to the area - Bayt al-Maqdis and Haykal - are directly taken from the Hebrew descriptions of the Temple.

Only in this generation are Muslims being taught otherwise - for purely political and antisemitic reasons.

(full article online)

Early sources prove that Muslims chose to build the Dome of the Rock on the site of the Jewish Temples ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## LA RAM FAN

abi said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.
> 
> 1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks
> 
> 
> 
> And of everything that the zionists do to demonize Israel, this is some of the most heinous.
Click to expand...


----------



## Sixties Fan

All narratives are not equal ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

This pact, which is known in Arabic as the al-ʿUhda al-ʿUmariyya, has been questioned as to its authenticity, and many versions exist. The seemingly most authoritative version, recorded by al-Tabari, includes:

 This is the assurance of safety [aman] which the servant of God Umar, the Commander of the Faithful, has given to the people of Jerusalem. He has given them an assurance of safety for themselves, for their property, their churches, their crosses, the sick and healthy of the city and for all the rituals which belong to their religion. Their churches will not be inhabited by Muslims and will not be destroyed. Neither they, nor the land on which they stand, nor their cross, nor their property will be damaged. They will not be forcibly converted. No Jew will live with them in Jerusalem.*When al-Tamimi refers to Umar's promise to Christians he is further erasing Jewish history.

The Vatican officials are of course too polite to object to explicit antisemitism by the Waqf representative in a ceremony meant to celebrate commonality between the two religions. Throwing Jews under the bus is a small price to pay.

Oh, and Arab news sites are reporting Tamimi's words as if the Vatican agrees.

(full article online)

Muslim leader denies Jewish rights in Jerusalem to Vatican representatives ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Mindful

In case you cannot imagine what religious freedom would look if, G-d forbid, the palestinians were in control of what they consider “Palestine”, allow this post from the Palestinian Information Center to inform you:






In other words, Jews praying at the Western Wall, one of their holiest sites in Judaism* on the eve of the holiest day in the Jewish calendar, angers the palestinian Arabs, who even consider _this_ site to be theirs.


Hamas’ tweet on the matter is just as instructive.

A Hint As To What Jewish Freedom of Worship Would Look Like Under a Palestinian State


----------



## Mindful

^_the holiest happens to be where the Muslims built their mosque hundreds of years after the Jewish Temple that stood there was destroyed._


----------



## rylah

*Heavy destruction prevented at the Hasmonean Archeological Site, *
*a unique site from the Second Temple period located near Jericho*

The Civil Administration Inspectorate yesterday (Sunday), in conjunction with the Archaeology Unit and the Jericho Coordination and Liaison Office, prevented illegal work on archaeological lands near the Hasmonean palaces.

During a routine tour, a truck was identified and two power shovel conducted ground preparations without a permit. The vehicles and the truck were confiscated at the scene, with blocks, cement and building materials destined for illegal work at the site.

Last Thursday, an enforcement action was held in the area against another truck. The truck contained equipment intended for illegal construction near ancient Jewish burial caves.




_A soldier  walking towards construction vehicles at an illegal construction site in the West Bank. (photo credit: Courtesy)
_
All captured vehicles were taken to the confiscation lot, and their owners were detained for interrogation by the Ma'aleh Adumim police. The confiscation of the vehicles and the cessation of illegal works prevented significant damage and destruction of ancient archaeological findings discovered at the Hasmonean palaces.

Hasmonean palaces are a unique archaeological and historical site of its kind illustrating the Hasmonean life of the Second Temple period just before the destruction of the house. The area is saturated with burial caves from the area, with which you can learn about the three generations of Hasmoneans buried there.

Civil Administration Archeology Officer Hanania Hizmi said: "The historic sites in Judea and Samaria cannot be damaged.The archaeology unit works tirelessly to develop and preserve the archaeological sites in Judea and Samaria as well as to prevent the destruction of all sites, and the Hasmonean palaces in particular."

Director of the Civilian Control Unit, Marco Ben Shabbat, added: "The Control Unit routinely works to prevent illegal work and to keep the law in Judea and Samaria. We will continue to eradicate the illegal construction phenomenon on archaeological sites, which is a violation of the law, in all the tools at our disposal."




_Remains of a Second Temple era palace_

Source:* Israel National News*

Additional articles:
*Israel Prevents Illegal Arab Construction from Destroying Second Temple Era Palaces (video incl.)*
*OFFICIALS STOP ILLEGAL BUILDING BY PALACES OF SECOND TEMPLE 'HANUKKAH HERO'*


----------



## Mindful




----------



## Sixties Fan

Arbid, who is a member of the terror organization Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, was hospitalized for 2 weeks soon after his arrest, and the Palestinian Authority claimed that it was a result of his interrogation. Having allegedly been injured by Jews, the official PA daily published a cartoon portraying the terrorist as Jesus on the cross.

Portraying a Palestinian terrorist suspected of murder as Jesus is in keeping with the PA’s rewriting history and its fundamental support of terror, which claims that Jesus was the first Palestinian "Martyr", and that terrorist murderers are heroes. 

(full article online)

Palestinian terrorist is like Jesus, according to official PA daily | PMW Analysis


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ The latest from the "lets pay to kill Jews" gang ]


In a recent sermon, a top PA religious official demonized two leaders who were instrumental in bringing about the creation of the State of Israel. PA’s Supreme Shari’ah Judge and Chairman of the Supreme Council for Shari'ah Justice, Mahmoud Al-Habbash, who is also a former advisor to PA Chairman Abbas, claimed that in the time before the creation of the State of Israel, then British Foreign Secretary Arthur Balfour was an “anti-Semite,” and then leader of the Zionist movement Theodor Herzl wanted to “empty Palestine” of Palestinians and send them “to Africa, so that the wild animals [would] eat them”: 

















“When Herzl came to Palestine, he found in it a people, culture, and progress and said: ‘How can the Jews immigrate here? How can the state of the Jews be established here? There is a people here. We want a land without a people. Therefore, we, and Britain, and the Western states must act to empty Palestine of its residents, its people, and throw them into the desert. And we can take them to Africa’ – thus he said – ‘so the wild animals will eat them and we will be rid of the so-called Palestinian people, so that Palestine will become “a land without a people for a people without a land.”’”

[Official PA TV, Nov. 1, 2019]

Al-Habbash denied any presence of Jews in the Land of Israel, stating that Lord Balfour was an “anti-Semite” who wanted to “be rid of the Jews” and therefore brought “foreign people with no connection to the land” and “planted them as thorns” in Palestine. Al-Habbash’s demonization of Herzl and Balfour is part of the PA’s false narrative, which claims that only Palestinians have a history in the Land of Israel, and that the Jews and the British conspired to empty the land of Palestinians to create a homeland for the Jews and a colonial stronghold for the British in the Middle East. To create a rationale for the British support of “Palestine” as a homeland for the Jews, Al-Habbash – and the PA narrative in general – turn Balfour and the British at large into anti-Semites who wanted to get rid of the Jews:

(full article online)

Herzl wanted to send Palestinians "to Africa, so wild animals [would] eat them," and Balfour was "an anti-Semite," according to top PA official | PMW Analysis


----------



## Sixties Fan

"Not one person mentioned in that video would have self-identified as 'Palestinian,'" blogger Elder of Ziyon wrote. "They were Jews (with a Greek or two thrown in.) Calling Jesus 'Palestinian' makes as much sense as calling King David 'Palestinian' and it is very offensive. Appropriating Jewish history itself is much more offensive than people calling falafel 'Israeli.'"

Daniel Schwammenthal, the director of the American Jewish Committee's Transatlantic Institute, tweeted, "Is there anything sadder than trying to steal another people's history? The inventor of the Jenin massacre blood libel, @ErakatSaeb, promotes another big lie: Jesus was... Palestinian. This version of that tired historical appropriation is from @BernieSanders surrogate @AmerZahr."

(full article online)

Christmas Cultural Appropriation Palestinian Style


----------



## Sixties Fan

It used to be confined to an annual piece of theater staged by the Palestinian Authority every Christmas. The festivities in P.A.-governed Bethlehem are primarily aimed at promoting Christian tourism. But statements alleging that Jesus was a Palestinian have always accompanied the activities there, including a parade to the Church of the Nativity.

The efforts by the late terrorist chieftain Yasser Arafat and Mahmoud Abbas, his successor as head of the P.A., to appropriate Christmas as a prop for their war on Israel have generally been dismissed as holiday nonsense by sensible people. But there’s more to this than just the desire of the Palestinian leadership to exploit the fact that the international press pays attention to events in the otherwise sleepy city in the Judean hills south of Jerusalem once a year.

At the heart of this effort is something far more insidious than what has seemed at times to be more of a P.A. attempt at photo-bombing the Christmas Eve coverage than doing any substantial harm to Israel’s image. Promoting the claim that Jesus was a Palestinian or that the Arab inhabitants of what was called Judea 2,000 years are the real Jews is denying and delegitimizing Jewish history and identity. Though some who either rationalize or wink at these Palestinians claims think this is basically harmless, it’s nothing less than a classic theme of anti-Semitism, whose ultimate goal is the destruction of Israel and the genocide of the real Jews.

These libels are not just being put forward by Abbas, who is serving in 15th year of a four-year term as P.A. president, elected back in 2005. The popular British graffiti artist Banksy has joined in the effort to make Christmas an anti-Israel holiday. He created a work called “Scar of Bethlehem” on display in a hotel there in which the traditional nativity scene is shown in front of a depiction of the security barrier that separates the West Bank from Israel with a bomb blast standing in for the usual Christmas star.

(full article online)

Time to shut down the Palestinian Hanukkah and Christmas scams


----------



## Sixties Fan

As 2019 ended, the Palestinian Authority emphasized that it views the entire State of Israel as “Palestine” and rewards anyone who reinforces this message. Accordingly the PA Ministry of Education awarded first prize in an art competition to a student who in her painting included the PA map of “Palestine,” which presents all of Israel as part of “Palestine” together with the PA areas and the Gaza Strip.

The painting – representing “the Palestinian teacher’s struggle in building the pillars of knowledge” – shows a teacher inside the map of “Palestine” holding a book with the Palestinian flag while building a boy out of puzzle pieces. [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Dec. 27, 2019]






Joining the PA Ministry of Education in awarding this painting first prize were several PA officials, including Fatah Central Committee Secretary Jibril Rajoub (far left in photo above), Ramallah District Governor Laila Ghannam (right of artist Maira Ghneim) and PA Prime Minister Dr. Muhammad Shtayyeh who presented the prize at a ceremony for Palestinian Teacher’s Day in Ramallah. 

The PA uses this map denying Israel's existence in all contexts, as documented repeatedly by Palestinian Media Watch.

(full article online)

PA rewards teaching that "Palestine" erases all of Israel | PMW Analysis


----------



## CWayne

frigidweirdo said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that Jerusalem is off the table for negotiations, the Palestinians have a golden opportunity to now seek peace with Israel before they lose even more.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you simultaneously colonize your neighbors and still claim you want peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you deny Israel has the Right to Exist and still want “ peace’?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let us not discuss that.
> They always end up moving the conversation to the "Jews".
> 
> What right do the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians have of destroying Jewish History.  That is what I would love to find out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not about rights, it's about power.
Click to expand...

Agreed.  Israel can and possibly should destroy the Palestinians, man; woman, child.

After all, all it takes is power and in the face of Israeli power, the Palestinians are helpless.

But never mind.  I see you can't follow the conversation unless you get to deflect it off-topic.

The Palestinians, are free do destroy their won heritage as they see fit, as long as they destroy no other.

That is the concern.  Why are they not being held to account for the destruction of Jewish history?  No one really cares about theirs.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Either way, no Muslim would ever say that the Buraq Wall is more sacred than the Al Aqsa Mosque. To say that the mosque has no meaning without the Kotel - the one place that Jews have venerated for centuries when banned from even visiting the Temple Mount itself - is proof positive that the entire Palestinian narrative is a series of lies.

Is there any clearer evidence that the entire Palestinian claim is not meant to assert any historic or legal rights, but to destroy Jewish rights? Literally every Jewish shrine in the Holy Land is claimed by the Palestinians to be their own, which is a hell of a coincidence. And they have been strident in saying that the Kotel was theirs as well, the Palestinian TV only recently telling viewers that Palestinians must defend their rights to the site with their lives.

The rest of the Fatah article is filled with such lies, as in this section still in the first paragraph, where it says "history proves that Palestine with its capital, Jerusalem, is Arab before the feet of the first Jew entered (Joshua bin Nun.)" The Palestinians now claim to be descended from the Jebusites, a tribe that has no evidence of existence beyond the Jewish Scriptures, who have no evidence of being Arab.

(full article online)

Palestinians now say their most important shrine is - the Western Wall! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## rylah

*Jewish holy sites taken over by Arab Muslims
A list of Jewish Holy Sites destroyed by Arab Muslims as well as sites where they built mosques as a symbol of Islamic supremacy over Judaism.*


----------



## toastman

Sixties Fan said:


> [ The latest from the "lets pay to kill Jews" gang ]
> 
> 
> In a recent sermon, a top PA religious official demonized two leaders who were instrumental in bringing about the creation of the State of Israel. PA’s Supreme Shari’ah Judge and Chairman of the Supreme Council for Shari'ah Justice, Mahmoud Al-Habbash, who is also a former advisor to PA Chairman Abbas, claimed that in the time before the creation of the State of Israel, then British Foreign Secretary Arthur Balfour was an “anti-Semite,” and then leader of the Zionist movement Theodor Herzl wanted to “empty Palestine” of Palestinians and send them “to Africa, so that the wild animals [would] eat them”:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “When Herzl came to Palestine, he found in it a people, culture, and progress and said: ‘How can the Jews immigrate here? How can the state of the Jews be established here? There is a people here. We want a land without a people. Therefore, we, and Britain, and the Western states must act to empty Palestine of its residents, its people, and throw them into the desert. And we can take them to Africa’ – thus he said – ‘so the wild animals will eat them and we will be rid of the so-called Palestinian people, so that Palestine will become “a land without a people for a people without a land.”’”
> 
> [Official PA TV, Nov. 1, 2019]
> 
> Al-Habbash denied any presence of Jews in the Land of Israel, stating that Lord Balfour was an “anti-Semite” who wanted to “be rid of the Jews” and therefore brought “foreign people with no connection to the land” and “planted them as thorns” in Palestine. Al-Habbash’s demonization of Herzl and Balfour is part of the PA’s false narrative, which claims that only Palestinians have a history in the Land of Israel, and that the Jews and the British conspired to empty the land of Palestinians to create a homeland for the Jews and a colonial stronghold for the British in the Middle East. To create a rationale for the British support of “Palestine” as a homeland for the Jews, Al-Habbash – and the PA narrative in general – turn Balfour and the British at large into anti-Semites who wanted to get rid of the Jews:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Herzl wanted to send Palestinians "to Africa, so wild animals [would] eat them," and Balfour was "an anti-Semite," according to top PA official | PMW Analysis


And this here is exactly what builds hate generation after generation, teaching children to hate the Jewish State..


----------



## Sixties Fan

As I was researching the broadcast announcements in Palestinian Arab schools I came across this one from 2017 that has a "Did you know?" section about how important Palestinians have been in history.

 2- Did you know that the Palestinian emperor of Rome was the one who ordered the expulsion of the Jews from Jerusalem due to their lack of politeness and their hatred against Christianity and Christians at that time?Palestinians are trying to take credit for expelling Jews from Jerusalem - for the crime of being "impolite!"

In reality, the emperor who expelled the Jews from Jerusalem in 136 CE was Hadrian, born in Italy.

 3- Did you know that the first historian in the world is Syoss Cassiros, who is Palestinian and whose book Pleistino is still preserved in the Louvre Museum ..
They appear to be referring to Simonides of Ceos (who was a poet, not a historian) and possibly his book now known as the Palatine Anthology of which part of it is in Paris. Simonides was born in Greece, not "Palestine."

(full article online)

Palestinian schools teach that "the first historian was Palestinian," "A Palestinian Roman expelled Jews from Jerusalem" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## ForeverYoung436

CWayne said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that Jerusalem is off the table for negotiations, the Palestinians have a golden opportunity to now seek peace with Israel before they lose even more.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you simultaneously colonize your neighbors and still claim you want peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you deny Israel has the Right to Exist and still want “ peace’?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let us not discuss that.
> They always end up moving the conversation to the "Jews".
> 
> What right do the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians have of destroying Jewish History.  That is what I would love to find out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not about rights, it's about power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed.  Israel can and possibly should destroy the Palestinians, man; woman, child.
> 
> After all, all it takes is power and in the face of Israeli power, the Palestinians are helpless.
> 
> But never mind.  I see you can't follow the conversation unless you get to deflect it off-topic.
> 
> The Palestinians, are free do destroy their won heritage as they see fit, as long as they destroy no other.
> 
> That is the concern.  Why are they not being held to account for the destruction of Jewish history?  No one really cares about theirs.
Click to expand...


The Palestinians have no history, unique culture or heritage.  So they try to destroy Jewish history in Eretz Yisrael (the Land of Israel).


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority (PA) has recently seized a Hasmonean-era fortress in Samaria and has converted it into “a Palestinian tourist site” as part of its campaign to seize Jewish heritage sites and transform them into “Palestinian sites” while systematically demolishing archaeological findings.

(full article online)


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  The Right To Destroy Jewish History 
⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,

This is one of those political aspects that I know almost nothing about.



Sixties Fan said:


> The Palestinian Authority (PA) has recently seized a Hasmonean-era fortress in Samaria and has converted it into “a Palestinian tourist site” as part of its campaign to seize Jewish heritage sites and transform them into “Palestinian sites” while systematically demolishing archaeological findings.


*(COMMENT)*

Reference:  
*•  Palestinians Seize Ancient Jewish Fortress, ‘Declare War on History’* •  

I've seen articles on this subject before.  They are usually about Arab Palestinian Beaurocrats trying to shakedown Neutral or Jewish Archeologist on dig sites by imposing some restrictions that can be waived by purchasing a dig permit.

But, more and more, I see this cartoon-like rivalry wherein the Arab Palestinians try to put a different interpretation on the archeologist findings.

Regionally, it is not all that uncommon to find where an Islamic influence has caused dig sites to be evicted, looted, ravaged and later destroyed.



			
				Jewish Press said:
			
		

> “According to the Oslo Accords, there is a requirement for full coordination between Israel and the PA in all matters related to archaeology, like there is security coordination. Therefore, in a situation where there is no security, Israel is obliged to act, so as in crimes against history, Israel is obliged to act,” Shomrim Al Hanetzach stated.
> *SOURCE: * By Aryeh Savir, Tazpit News Agency, 23 FEB 20



OK, while there is no such thing as "crimes against history," most countries have some sort codified protection of antiquities and the heritage artifacts.  Most of the time, these Legal codes are pretty easy to understand and are straight forward.  Most of the time, it is a matter of setting out the rules for the cultural, historic and excavation of sites that are of scientific interest.  But in this example_ (and I've seen other similar examples)_ it is the territorial host that is actually commandeering the site for monetary exploitation.

The article talks about the Israelis having some responsibility or obligation to protect these sites.  But I don't understand what they are supposed to do. 




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Comedy, comedy, comedy......is the best future for the Palestinians ]

In his fantasy retelling of history, the writer says that the native Arabs resisted the invasion of the Jews. Even David wasn't able to wrest control of Jerusalem from the Arabs. During the days of David and Solomon, Jews only had a kind of limited autonomy that was graciously granted by the Arabs of the area.

My favorite part is this:

[ The Arab Canaanites who gave the world the alphabet from 1400 to 1200 BC - as the Phoenicians are part of the Canaanites - remained the people of civilization, the people of the lands, and the people of sovereignty in most of the cities of the Levant in the time of that city-state. Their struggle with the Jews continued after they entered the Levant, and the invaders were not able to extend their control over the region nor to provide it with a special cultural presence - just as they could not form a prominent presence in it even at the military level except in the time of David And Solomon (1000-923 BC).]



In this "history" the Jews contributed nothing to civilization and the "Palestinians" introduced the world to everything.

Not only that, but history is viewed from the distorted lens of how Arabs see the world today. Therefore, when Cyrus allowed the Jews to return to Israel, he was being lobbied by Babylonian Jews who were his advisors - just like AIPAC does today!

I've seen previous articles that claim Palestinians invented chariots - because of the Hittites.

These inspired me to tweet:
Hey Palestinians:

Canaanites weren't Arab. 
Jebusites weren't Arab. 
Phoenicians weren't Arab. 
Hittites weren't Arab. 
Philistines weren't Arab. 

.
— Elder Of Ziyon ҉ (@elderofziyon) March 6, 2020

Ali Oqla Arsan is from Syria.

(full article online)

New claim: Palestinians invented the alphabet! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Despite the closure of the Al-Aqsa Mosque/Haram esh-Sharif due to coronavirus, the staff, workers and guards of the Al-Aqsa Mosque are continuing their hard work," wrote the Jordanian-backed Waqf, which administers the Temple Mount.

The Arab Desk of the Zionist watchdog Im Tirtzu, which first reported the unauthorized digs, accused the Waqf of taking advantage of the closure to perform the illegal digs that are aimed at "destroying Jewish artifacts and history."

Due to the highly sensitive nature of the Temple Mount, all digs must be approved by both the Waqf and the Israel Antiquities Authority.

Despite this, the Waqf has a long history of conducting illegal digs, most notably in 1999 when they disposed of over 9,000 tons of dirt mixed with invaluable archaeological artifacts that are now being salvaged by The Temple Mount Sifting Project.

(full article online)









						Islamic Waqf takes advantage of Temple Mount closure to conduct digs
					

Waqf posts on social media, showing off the illegal digging it is conducting on the Temple Mount.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel and 'Palestine': It's All the Same For The Irish Times | Honest Reporting
					

As part of a series looking at personal experiences under the coronavirus in different parts of the world, the Irish Times interviews Juliet Casey




					honestreporting.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel decries Egyptian TV show predicting its destruction, breakup of the US
					

Foreign Ministry slams as 'completely unacceptable' Ramadan sci-fi production 'El-Nehaya,' in which Jerusalem has been 'liberated' and Jews 'returned to their countries of origin'




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## rylah

*PA Police Arrest Israeli Archaeologists Investigating Arab Robberies in Northern Samaria Site*

Armed Palestinian Authority police on Monday arrested two Israeli archaeologists at an archaeological site in northern Samaria, in an area which is under Israeli control.

The group Shomrim Al Hanetzach (lit. guarding eternity), dedicated to preserving antiquities sites in Judea and Samaria, has been carrying out a mapping project of ancient sites which have fallen victim to rogue excavations, looting and damage to the finds. The venture was launched following the announcement of the Trump plan early this year, and has surveyed more than 100 antiquities sites which have been severely damaged – a phenomenon that has been further aggravated by the coronavirus which caused a cut in the Civil Administration’s inspections of crimes against Israel’s historical treasures.

Full story:









						PA Police Arrest Israeli Archaeologists Investigating Arab Robberies in Northern Samaria Site
					

"This is the inevitable outcome of the fact that armed PA police are walking around in distinctly Israeli areas. We urge the Israeli government to adopt a plan to protect our heritage sites."




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Giant Palestinian Flag marks the focal point of the PA's efforts to erase any trace of Jewish history in Samaria.

The Palestinian Authority is deepening its takeover of Tel Aruma, the Hasmonean fortress in Samaria, damaging Jewish antiquities in the process, Regavim reported. On Sunday, a fleet of heavy engineering machinery from the PA and the Beita Village Council paved a road leading up to the remains of the fort.

(full article online)









						Under Cover of Coronavirus Crisis, Palestinian Authority Destroys Hasmonean Fortress in Samaria
					

The Palestinian Authority is deepening its takeover of Tel Aruma, the Hasmonean fortress in Samaria, damaging Jewish antiquities in the process, Regavim reported. On Sunday, a fleet of heavy engineeri




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

#Covid1948, an alleged reference to both the ongoing coronavirus pandemic and the events of 1948 in Mandatory Palestine, seems to imply that the in-gathering and return of Jews to the region was akin to the spread of a virus for Palestinians in the area, with many Twitter users sharing a a highly-criticized map revealing a shrinking "Palestine" from 1947 to today.

(full article online)









						#COVID1948 trends as users compare coronavirus to Palestinian exodus
					

A new hashtag on Twitter has gained popularity Thursday that appears to make a connection between the large-scale immigration of Jews to Mandate Palestine prior to the 1948 War of Independence.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Associated Press yesterday concealed from readers that Israel has fully withdrawn from the Gaza Strip, giving uninformed readers the false impression that Israel remains in control of the coastal territory. In the May 13 article, “Despite virus, Pompeo talks West Bank annexation in Israel,” Ilan Ben-Zion wrote:

(full article online)









						AP Obscures Gaza Withdrawal
					

The Associated Press conceals that Israel has fully withdrawn from the Gaza Strip, writing that Palestinians 'seek' the territory as part of their future




					www.camera.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

So I looked up Dura in Wikipedia and here’s what I found:



> The present-day name of _Dura_ has been identified with ancient _Adoraim_ or the _Adora_ of 1 Macc.13.20[3][4] Mentioned as _Adora_ by Apocryphaand often by Josephus.[5] A weak letter is usually lost in Hebrew to Arabic sound conversion, such as in the case of _Adoraim_ to _Dura_.[6] A loss of a first feeble letter is not uncommon and the form of _Dora_ could be found as early as in several instances of Josephus writings.[5]


So even his village’s name is Biblical!

His response was, sadly, typical:



> You guys often have an explanation to suit your needs!


Yes, it’s called the truth.

(full article online)









						Dura, Adora and Biblical names for Arab villages
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah

Find out how the UN is denying the Jewish connection to Jerusalem. 
Thought you had heard everything, but this is no joke:

No Sense Denying the Jewish Connection to Jerusalem


----------



## Sixties Fan

These studies demonstrate that the original reason why the Temple Mount was sacred to Islam and ‎why the mosques were built there in the first place was the return to the place where the Temple had ‎stood with the goal of replacing Judaism and Christianity with Islam, the "supreme religion." ‎Muhammad, it turns out, was influenced by his Jewish neighbors in Medina more than we thought. ‎The similarity between Islamic customs and the customs of Judaism, which directly inspired Islam in its ‎early days, is not coincidental at all. ‎

The most convincing sources that argue for the existence of the Temple and the Mount having ‎belonged to the Jews first are Islamic texts from the period in which the Dome of the Rock was ‎constructed. These indicate that the Jews sort of mentored the Muslims, helping them get to know ‎the holy compound, shortly after their joint enemy – the Byzantines – were defeated. ‎

Archaeologist Professor Dan Bahat, for example, notes that the Muslims, who knew about the Jewish ‎ties to Jerusalem and the Temple Mount, respected the Jews in the first centuries following the ‎construction of the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa Mosque. He found plenty of evidence of that, ‎including writings by Mujir al-Din of the 15th century, considered a preeminent source for the Muslim ‎history of Jerusalem. ‎

Other research by prominent current-day students of Islam show that in the early days of the Dome of ‎the Rock, Muslim religious rites on the Mount were very similar to those held in the Temple. Historian ‎Dr. Milka Levy-Rubin describes how the Muslims would anoint the Foundation Stone with "incense," ‎based on ancient Jewish literature. She says that in the compound itself, Jews and Christians served ‎religious role, dressed very like the priests as they were described in the Bible: a cloth robe, a miter, ‎and sashes of expensive and embellished fabric. "Even though this all existed for a very short time, it ‎clearly shows the reason the place was originally chosen… apparently, the Muslims in the beginning ‎saw themselves as carrying out the rites of the Jewish Temple," she writes.

(full article online)



			https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/05/22/muslims-themselves-gave-us-the-tools-to-disprove-palestinian-lies-%E2%80%8E/


----------



## rylah

*WATCH: Israel Battles Arab Looters Ravaging Archaeological Sites *

_*An alarming number of archaeological sites in Israel have been robbed or vandalized by looters who seek to both line their pockets and erase all traces of Jewish history in the Land of Israel.*_

A shocking 95 percent of all archaeology sites in Judea and Samaria have been robbed.

Not only are these thieves trying to steal artifacts, they’re also trying to erase Jewish history.

These brave Israelis are taking a stand to preserve the Jewish people’s history in their ancestral homeland.













						WATCH: Israel Battles Arab Looters Ravaging Archaeological Sites | United with Israel
					

An alarming number of archaeological sites in Israel have been robbed or vandalized by looters who seek to both line their pockets and erase all traces of Jewish history in the Land of Israel.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Mindful

Today’s fireside chat.









						Today's Fireside Chat: There is No Such Thing as a "Pro-Palestinian"
					

Catch today's Fireside chat on YouTube




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

A Scottish MP caused controversy this week when he attempted to add language to a resolution commemorating the “nakba” saying that it was a Palestinian “self-inflicted tragedy.”

The resolution falsely said that the Palestinian exodus in 1948 was a “mass eviction of over 750,000 people from historic Palestine land, which included the destruction of over 500 towns and villages [which] led to generations of pain for the Palestinian people, who continue to live under a state of occupation”.

There was no mass eviction of 750,000 Palestinians. Most of them fled without seeing  a single Jewish soldier. 

But the phrasing of a resolution that was clearly false was not the cause of controversy. Richard Lyle, a SNP member of Parliament, was condemned for suggesting an addition to the text saying the exodus was “a self-inflicted tragedy, which must, after all these years, be finally resolved by peaceful means and discussions between the parties involved”.

Lyle was condemned by pro-Palestinian groups. But no one condemned the people who sponsored the bill which was completely against historical fact. Benny Morris summarized the reasons for the flight as follows: "Most of Palestine's 700,000 ‘refugees’ fled their homes because of the flail of war (and in the expectation that they would shortly return to their homes on the backs of victorious Arab invaders). But it is also true that there were several dozen sites, including Lydda and Ramla, from which Arab communities were expelled by Jewish troops."

(full article online)









						Scotland newspaper says Palestinians were forced out in 1948 because of Israel’s “rape and torture” of them
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## rylah

*Civil Administration returns artifacts stolen by Arabs*

_*Civil Administration returns ancient archeological artifacts stolen by robbers in the Bethlehem area.*_

As part of the widespread activity led by the Civil Administration to curb the phenomenon of robbery of ancient artifacts in the Judea and Samaria area, members of the Coordination and Liaison Administration in Bethlehem returned rare archeological findings that were stolen from an archaeological site in the Bethlehem area.

The remains, which were returned on Monday, included various coins and objects dating to different periods in history, ranging from the Persian Period to the Ottoman Period.

It is believed that the findings belong to the Tel Battir site, where remains of a fortified community identified as the ancient Beitar were discovered.

Among the findings was a group of coins minted by Hasmonean King Alexander Yanai, which are decorated with stars and anchors. Also discovered is a coin of Archelaus, the son of Herod who ruled the area after his father's death, as well as a silver coin from the time of the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem.

In addition, a large number of Byzantine coins bearing a royal portrait on one side and various symbols, including crosses, on the other side, was returned.

The Head of the Civil Administration Archaeology Unit, Hanania Hizmi, said, "We are doing everything we can to prevent the devastating phenomenon of the robbery of ancient artifacts across Judea and Samaria. I am glad that today we were able to return and preserve remains of historical significance. The Civil Administration will continue to work tirelessly for the protection of national heritage assets and regional history."













						Civil Administration returns artifacts stolen by Arabs
					

Civil Administration returns ancient archeological artifacts stolen by robbers in the Bethlehem area.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

__





						All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
					

She is saying that the Temple Mount must be an exclusively Muslim site, and Jews should be banned from visiting it even to peacefully stroll, let alone pray – while at the same time pretending to care about freedom of worship!  (She also calls all Jews, no matter where they live, “illegal...



					www.usmessageboard.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The SS Patria (which had nothing to do with Leon Uris’ Exodus story) was a ship that the British filled with 1800 Jewish refugees who had “illegally” immigrated to Israel in 1940, with the intent to send them to camps in Mauritania. The Jewish leadership did everything they could to convince the British to allow the Jews to stay, but the British refused. 

The full story of what happened didn’t get publicized until 1957, but the Haganah decided to disable the ship by attaching a small explosive to the side, to buy time to try to convince the British to let the Jews stay. The bomb itself fit into a leather lunch bag. But because the ship was not nearly as sturdy as it appeared, the bomb blew a six square meter hole in the side of the ship, and the SS Patria sank within 15 minutes. About 200 Jews were killed. (The British counted over 270, but many managed to slip onto land without being detected.)

(full article online)









						New libel: “Zionists killed Jews rather than allow them to live outside Israel”
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

While the incident is both funny and maddening, I think that Ms. Hirsch could have shut up her Waqf friend with two pieces of information.

One is from the Waqf itself. While the guard said that Jews were the ones who made up a story about the Temple around 1940, that happens to be not far from the time that the Waqf started erasing Jewish history there. The Waqf pamphlet for tourists up until around 1952 explicitly admitted that Solomon’s Temple was at the site:






The current Waqf  pamphlet explicitly denies any Jewish history altogether.

(full article online)









						Woman arrested by Waqf for saying that the Temples existed. (Muslims used to admit it themselves.)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Jews first settled in Hebron during the Ottoman Empire? No, Jews have been there almost continuously since Biblical times, except during Byzantine rule and the time between the 1929 riots and 1968. 

Jews lived peacefully in Hebron with the Arabs? Just based on Wikipedia, we see: 

Jews were banned from visiting the Tomb of the Patriarchs, and Jewish women disguised themselves as Muslim women in order to visit, at much risk to their lives, in the 15th century.

Turkish pashas extorted funds from only the Jews in the 18th century, almost crushing the community. 

Not long after, Arabs falsely  accused Jews of Hebron of having murdered the son of a local sheikh and they had to pay another exorbitant amount to not be slaughtered. 

Hebron had a “strong tradition of hostility to Jews.”

Were Jews a small minority in Hebron? According to the 1837 Union Bible Dictionary, there were 400 Arab families and 120 Jewish families, "the latter having been reduced greatly in number by a bloody battle in 1834, between them and the troops of Ibrahim Pasha."

(full article online)









						“Breaking the Silence” lies about Jewish history in Hebron
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Arabic term for Jerusalem, that even Western journalists like to use, is Al-Quds. Al-Quds come from the full term Beit-Al-MaQdish, turned into Al-Quds. Beit Al-MaQdish is Arabic for the Hebrew Beit Hamikdash, the Jewish Temple! In essence, the Arab term for Jerusalem is proof that Jerusalem belongs to the Jewish people!

(full article online)









						The Arabic word for the Jewish Temple exposes the biggest "Palestinian" lie
					

He wouldn't answer one simple question.




					israelunwired.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hungary, Ukraine and other Eastern European countries have used Holocaust memorializing to erase their own complicity in the slaughter of the Jews, presenting themselves instead as historic victims of the Nazis or even equating the Nazi killing of Jews with the Soviet killing of other minorities.

As Deech observed, the Holocaust tends to be lumped together with other genocides and examples of racism or persecution, thus watering down its significance. The message becomes a generalized one of avoiding hatred and intolerance.

But that doesn't address or explain the roots of the Holocaust: "Namely, centuries of Jewish persecution; first, on the grounds of religion, and then on the grounds of race, and now on the grounds of a distorted left-wing view of the State of Israel."

Of course, governments and nations should stand against all bigotry and persecution. But this kumbaya-esque mush robs Holocaust memorializing of its key point: that the Holocaust was a unique atrocity.

(full article online)



			https://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/betraying-jewish-history-by-watering-down-the-holocaust/


----------



## Mindful

German Jewish navy sailors in Kiel during WWI. 

Just think what happened to them in a little over 20 years from then. After fighting for their country.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Many Black antisemites insist that they are the real Jews and Jews are imposters, and they claim that they have science and history on their side.

So let’s look at their evidence.

This article in Medium by “Black Simba” is fairly typical in its list of proofs.

(full article online)









						A brief debunking of the “Blacks are the real Jews” theory
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

*The Palestinian Authority:

“[Israeli] plots are being woven against it [Jerusalem] to forge its identity”

“The stones in the ground are fabricated graves planted [by Israel] to prove… an ancient Israeli and Jewish presence”

“The greatest liar is [Israel]… stealing our heritage”

”[Jewish history is] delusional myths and the arrogance of power”

”They [Israel] imagine that by this brute force they can invent a [Jewish] history”

“Their so-called 'Temple' - the greatest crime and forgery in history"*

This evening, the 9th of the Jewish month of Av, Jews commemorate the destruction of both Temples in Jerusalem, by Babylon in 586 BCE and by Rome in 70 CE.

The Palestinians, hoping to create a state on land in which they have no national or political ancient history, feel threatened by the more than 3000 years of Jewish history which is thoroughly documented. Thousands of archaeological finds, including coins, stamps, Hebrew inscriptions and more, many of which go back to the First Temple period, all are testimony to the thriving Jewish history in the land. Accordingly, denial of Jewish history in the land of Israel and especially in Jerusalem is a central component of PA national - political ideology. It is expressed regularly by PA leader Mahmoud Abbas himself as well as other senior PA officials.

Recently the PA produced a TV filler of Abbas again denying Israel’s history in Jerusalem saying Palestinans must *“confront the [Israeli] plots that are being woven against it to forge its identity and to change its character.”* While Abbas’ voice is heard, images of Jews visiting the Temple Mount are shown:



(full article online)









						PA says Jewish history in Jerusalem is “fabricated,” “forged,” “delusional myths,” “lies,” “libels,” “legends,” and “stolen heritage” | PMW Analysis
					

"Their so-called 'Temple' - the greatest crime and forgery in history"




					palwatch.org


----------



## RoccoR

RE:   The Right To Destroy Jewish History
⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,

*BLUF*:  The Al-Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock are the two key features that dominate the Temple Mount (_Haram esh-Sharif_).  These features are sacred to Islam and have been in the care of the Muslims for more than a thousand years.



Sixties Fan said:


> PA says Jewish history in Jerusalem is “fabricated,” “forged,” “delusional myths,” “lies,” “libels,” “legends,” and “stolen heritage” | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> "Their so-called 'Temple' - the greatest crime and forgery in history"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org


*(COMMENT)*

Israel just needs to rise above this bickering and get on with a King Solomon like solution.
​


​

King Solomon would just make a new Temple.  Even if the Israels lay one stone a day, it would be a start.  King Solomon will not care if it is a few feet off the Mount.



​
It could be the most modern construction project of its kind - greater even then Khafre's Pyramid at Giza. 




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Mindful

Video: The Survivor's Revenge: The Remarkable Story of Josef Lewkowicz
					

After the loss of his entire family and witnessing unimaginable horrors, one survivor would not find peace until he found his own path of revenge.




					www.aish.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Visitpalestine.ps website is a tourist site for people who want to pretend Israel doesn’t exist. That’s fine – they can emphasize whatever they want on their tours.

But when they create a map of the Old City of Jerusalemand erase virtually all evidence of Jews from Jerusalem, that is a different matter.

(full article online)









						“Visit Palestine” erases Jews from Jerusalem
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Mindful

A number of anti-Israel propaganda sites have posted some photos of Jaffa, which is in Israel proper, from the year 1900 before the “Zionists” supposedly occupied it.









Leaving aside the fact Jews were living in Jaffa at the time, there’s another problem: The photo on the top right (first photo) and right (second photo) is not of Jaffa at all. It is the Jaffa Gate in the old city of Jerusalem. And this is not even the first time Quds News Network have made this mistake.

Oh how familiar with their beloved Jaffa and Jerusalem they are that they do not even know what they look like, and mistake one for the other!









						Palestinian Propaganda Fail of the Day: Jaffa Redux Edition
					

A number of anti-Israel propaganda sites have posted some photos of Jaffa, which is in Israel proper, from the year 1900 before the "Zionists" supposedly occupied it.




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

This is a libel on top of a libel, a double lie. The many Muslims who are convinced that al-Aqsa is in danger are now also convinced that “their” al-Aqsa stands on a place where “our” Temple never stood – the latter being nothing but a fabrication. 

Some of the legitimacy that terrorism draws from the libel rests on that added lie. It is more legitimate to libel and murder Jews, so as “to protect the captive al-Aqsa and free it from the Jews who are plotting to destroy it,” if Israel and the Jews who “conspire to attack the site,” have only a false and concocted connection to it. Thus, the lie that undergirds the libel also bolsters the legitimacy to murder in its name. From the standpoint of the “Al-Aqsa is in danger” terrorists and their supporters, they do not murder only those who seek to wrest the Mount from their hands. As they see it, they are also murdering the falsifiers of history, who have no link to the site at all. They also want the Mount to be “liberated” psychologically so that their historical and religious narrative will prevail. This chapter (the appendix of the book) aims to refute this lie as well and to prove that it is nothing but a broken prop.

(full article online)









						Ancient Muslim Texts Confirm the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem | Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs
					

Esteemed Islamic scholars contradict modern Palestinian fabrications




					jcpa.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

In case you are interested, the main part of the story is based on a forgotten 1940 letter written by Arthur Greenwood, member without portfolio in the British War Cabinet, who wrote to the Jews of the United States that when victory was achieved an effort would be made to create a new world order based on the ideals of "justice and peace." The letter was meaningless - after all, Great Britain did all it could to block a Jewish state - but the words "new world order" make some people go crazy.









						Today's Iranian antisemitism
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## danielpalos

...nobody can do a better job than the Romans did.


----------



## Mindful

danielpalos said:


> ...nobody can do a better job than the Romans did.



Really?
John, Jeannette and Anna Groenteman from Amsterdam. Killed in Auschwitz September 28, 1942. They were 7, 4 and 6 years old.

May their neshamas have an aliyah!


----------



## Sixties Fan

One of the attendees described the lecture this way:


> Today I attended a lecture given by Brown University professor Ariella Azoulay who had been invited to talk to a Cornell class in the school of architecture. This lecture was afactual, ahistorical and steeped in antisemitic narratives to the extent that all photographs showing Jews or Israelis she had erased the image of the people (see below) because "I can't bear to look at them". Deeply disturbing and profoundly depressing.


Sure enough, Azoulay tweeted her photos that she showed at the lecture, and they show all Jews who were the early pioneers of modern Israel are deliberately blacked out of the photos. 






Even though Azoulay is Jewish, she actually went out of her way to blacken the images of Jews because, in her words, she couldn't bear to look at them. This is dehumanizing Jews and only Jews - there is really no other way to interpret this. (Inher caption of an unedited photo advertising the lecture, Azoulay specifically calls out Jewish - not Zionist - soldiers.)

(full article online)









						Brown U professor hates Israel so much she erases Jews from her photos of "Palestine" (UPDATE)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## MJB12741

Sixties Fan said:


> While the incident is both funny and maddening, I think that Ms. Hirsch could have shut up her Waqf friend with two pieces of information.
> 
> One is from the Waqf itself. While the guard said that Jews were the ones who made up a story about the Temple around 1940, that happens to be not far from the time that the Waqf started erasing Jewish history there. The Waqf pamphlet for tourists up until around 1952 explicitly admitted that Solomon’s Temple was at the site:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The current Waqf  pamphlet explicitly denies any Jewish history altogether.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woman arrested by Waqf for saying that the Temples existed. (Muslims used to admit it themselves.)
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com


Try as they may to erase Jewish history, it cannot be done.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israeli Watchdog Catches Harvard University Saying Israeli Cities are in ‘Occupied Palestine’ | United with Israel
					

Harvard was forced to update its website after Arab divinity college fellow claimed the Israeli cities of Ramla and Lod are in 'occupied Palestine.'




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## danielpalos

MJB12741 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> While the incident is both funny and maddening, I think that Ms. Hirsch could have shut up her Waqf friend with two pieces of information.
> 
> One is from the Waqf itself. While the guard said that Jews were the ones who made up a story about the Temple around 1940, that happens to be not far from the time that the Waqf started erasing Jewish history there. The Waqf pamphlet for tourists up until around 1952 explicitly admitted that Solomon’s Temple was at the site:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The current Waqf  pamphlet explicitly denies any Jewish history altogether.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woman arrested by Waqf for saying that the Temples existed. (Muslims used to admit it themselves.)
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try as they may to erase Jewish history, it cannot be done.
Click to expand...

What erasure?  To the extent the Israelites are Jews, they have their own State.


----------



## Sixties Fan

This is a press release from Regavim that exposes a huge crime by the Palestinian Authority against the remains of the heroes of Chanukah:




> The circle that was closed yesterday began last year, when Regavim’s field activities sparked a unique rescue mission: Volunteers for the “Preserving the Eternal” project discovered that the Palestinian Authority had issued permits for agricultural work resulting in the desecration of the ancient burial grounds at the Hasmonean Fortress of Jericho. They found the catacombs plundered, the sarcophagi stolen, and human remains that had been at rest there for over 2,000 years scattered around the site - which was being plowed and steam-rolled.








> Regavim alerted the Civil Administration, and a rescue mission to collect the desecrated remains and reinter them at the Jewish cemetery in Kfar Adumim was set in motion.



(full article online)









						Bones of Hashmoneans were being destroyed by the Palestinian Authority; remains saved and re-interred during Chanukah
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Since 1977, the UN’s “International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People,” held on or around November 29, has provided an annual opportunity for the PLO and its supporters to target Israel.

This year, however, due to the coronavirus pandemic, the propaganda is spreading far beyond the confines of the UN’s New York headquarters with the launch of a virtual exhibit that relies on inflammatory and misleading imagery, takes source material from an antisemitic website, and uses distorted and de-contextualized quotes.

The UN exhibit “examines the plight of the Palestinian people” by “focusing on the wall built in the Occupied Palestinian Territory,” which it explores through the words of “advocates and public personalities,” and through images from “artists and human rights activists who have used the wall as a canvas to express their solidarity with the Palestinian people.”

What the UN-hosted exhibit does not say is that over 90 percent of Israel’s security barrier, which it misleadingly refers to as “the wall,” is made up of an electronic fence. Only 10 percent of the barrier is a concrete structure, mainly limited to highly populated urban areas such as Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Qalqiliyah and Tulkarm.

The exhibit describes the security barrier as an illegal abuse of Palestinian human rights concerned with “confiscating Palestinian land, demolishing Palestinian property, including homes, dispossessing and displacing Palestinian families, and de facto annexing more land.”

What the exhibit fails to mention are the reasons why the barrier was constructed: no mention of the Palestinian terrorism that claimed over a thousand Israeli lives, and injured thousands more during the Second Intifada in the early 2000s; no mention of the suicide bombers dispatched from Palestinian towns and cities to wreak death and destruction on Israeli buses and cafes; and no acknowledgment of the human rights of Israelis or their security needs.

Ultimately, the security barrier reduced the number of terror attacks originating in the West Bank by some 90%, demonstrating both its necessity and its effectiveness.

This year, the UN launched a campaign to fight disinformation. Yet in the examples below from its online Palestinian exhibit, the world body is guilty of promoting exactly that.

(full article online)









						12/18 Links Pt1: Kontorovich: The Israel-Morocco peace deal underscores a double standard on the West Bank versus Western Sahara; UN’s Virtual Palestinian Exhibit Distorts Facts
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

If Palestine is a "region," then the population is about 11 million - because Israel would be included. That first sentence conflates the so-called "state of Palestine" with its historic use, and is flat out wrong.

The boundaries it mentions are essentially the British Mandate borders, which as I've shown are not even close to what was considered Palestine before 1920. No map included the Negev, all the maps included parts of the east bank of the Jordan and Lebanon, you cannot find one that used the Jordan River as a boundary. 

Merriam Webster has re-written the definition to adhere to politically correct thinking of a relationship between the modern concept of an Arab Palestinian political entity and how the term has been used for 1800 years - as a (poor) synonym for Judea.

Modern antisemites have renewed what the Romans did: use the word "Palestine" to destroy the concept of a Jewish political entity. It is the responsibility of dictionaries to understand this subtext and not to compound the offense.

(full article online)









						Merriam Webster says Israel was a "kingdom in ancient Palestine"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

This is a popular globe, sold all over the world. 

The manufacturer was clearly not too invested in accuracy or clarity altogether. One would think that Cyprus is part of Syria and the actual island is underwater. 

Not all Discovery globes have the same map and error. It is hard to see but this video of Discovery's "World Globe for Students" shows the names of the Levant countries much larger, and Israel is in the right place; Tel Aviv is mentioned  as well as Jerusalem.

(full article online)









						Discovery children's  globe replaces Israel with "Palestine" - and it is not the only one
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## danielpalos

Jews may need to convince the Israelites to change the name of their State to Judea; a referendum?


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Jordanian Al Ghad newspaper claims that there are thousands of mock Jewish graves surrounding Jerusalem as a means to control lands.

-----
The story is true - about Palestinians. 

While Palestinians have made these claims before, in fact the only people who have ever erected fake graves were Palestinians, most notably in the Mamillah cemetery in 2010 when they were discovered to have hastily placed hundreds of fake gravestones on top of nothing but trash. 

The most disgusting thing about the Arab charges is that they are claiming that the Mount of Olives, the oldest Jewish cemetery in the world with over 100,000 graves, whose gravestones were stolen by Jordan between 1948 and 1967 and used to pave roads and build latrines, where my own ancestors and other relatives are buried - is all a lie.

Here are a couple of photos of Jordan's using ancient Jewish gravestones for building.

(full article online)









						Projection time: Palestinians accuse Jews of creating 100,000 fake graves - including at the Mount of Olives
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Fakhri Abu Diab, an anti-Israel activist from east Jerusalem who gets lots of interviews with fellow Israel-haters, is accusing Israel of erasing Palestinian history.

Naturally, he is doing it by trying to erase Jewish history.

In an article in Safa, also published in a Jordanian news site, Abu Diab complains about a new tourist center Israel is building near the Western Wall. 
-------

Funny, the Israel Foreign Ministry has a page celebrating those Muslim Umayyad palaces that Israeli archaeologists discovered to the south of the Temple Mount, and anyone can visit them today. 

Jews are as bad at destroying Muslim antiquities as they are at genocide. 

(full article online)









						Who is trying to erase history?
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Jewish studies teaching hatred for Jews ]

Jewish Studies has an antisemitism problem and it’s only been getting worse.

The signatories to the “Jewish Supremacy” letter are many of the same ugly figures in Jewish Studies who sign on to every anti-Israel letter that comes their way. They signed the letter opposing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, the letter opposing campaigns against campus antisemitism, opposing the IHRA definition of antisemitism, and opposing, well, Jews.

Jewish Studies, as Lila Corwin Berman implies, ought to have little to do with actual Jews. But it’s not enough for Jewish Studies to displace Jews, burying a people in a mass grave of academic verbiage and social justice buzzwords, it must also set out to eliminate the Jews.

As has happened so often, the theft of Jewish ideas and narratives is sealed with genocide.

Jewish Studies has become an academic war on the Jews. And no matter how good the intentions of the donors subsidizing chairs in Jewish history, Holocaust studies, and religious studies were, the academics who seize them adopt an eliminationist ideology, resenting the confines of Jewish identity, and seeking to destroy it by satanizing the Jews.

The same old narrative of Jewish history is playing out on campuses where the physical body of the Jewish people and the bodies of Jews are being ideologically separated from “Jewishness”.

Academic ‘Jewishness’ is constructed to mean anything and everything but actual Jews. Jews are reframed as the enemies of true Jewish values and ideas who must be destroyed to save “Jewishness” from the Jews.

(full article online)









						Jewish Studies Has an Anti-Semitism Problem | FrontpageMag
					

Daniel Greenfield, a Shillman Journalism Fellow at the Freedom Center, is an investigative journalist and writer focusing on the radical Left and Islamic




					www.frontpagemag.com


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?



Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
Click to expand...

[Bits and pieces of history which you like to spread are nice to read by those who are ignorant of Jewish History.

Has any Jew ever said that Jews were the sole inhabitants of the Land of Canaan, Israel, Judea?  No.

Has any Jew ever said that any tribe of Arabs did not settle in Judea or Samaria?  No ]
-------------------------
According to the Hebrew Bible, three of the ancient Israelite tribes were allocated lands on the east side of the Jordan River valley, in the territory of present-day Jordan. They were the tribes of Reuben, Gadand Manasseh.[2] These tribes were members of the Northern Kingdom of Israel until the kingdom was conquered by Assyria in c. 723 BCE and the population deported.

A nation related to the Israelites, the Edomites (Idumaeans) resided in present-day southern Jordan, between the Dead Sea and the Gulf of Aqaba.




Iudaea Province on both sides of the Jordan Riverin the 1st century.
The Hasmonean official Antipater the Idumaean was of Idumean origin. He was the progenitor of the Herodian dynasty that ruled Judeaafter the Roman conquest. When Herod the Great became king, Idumaea was ruled for him by a series of governors, among whom were his brother Joseph Antipater and his brother-in-law Costobarus.

Immediately before the siege of Jerusalem by Titus, 20,000 Idumaeans, under the leadership of John, Simeon, Phinehas, and Jacob, appeared before Jerusalem to fight on behalf of the zealotswho were besieged in the Second Temple.[3]

After the Jewish-Roman wars, the Idumaean people ceased to be mentioned in history.









						History of the Jews in Jordan - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




---------------------
[The Philistines were invaders of Greek origin, who inhabited the land of Gaza for some time, conquering nations like Israel while they were an Empire. They are long gone, now. Before the Philistines, Gaza belonged to whoever lived there before the invading Greeks created the Philistine Empire ]
-------------------------------
Gaza first appears in the Tanach as a Philistine city, the site of Samson's dramatic death. Jews finally conquered it in the Hasmonean era, and continued to live there. Notable residents include Dunash Ibn Labrat, and Nathan of Gaza, advisor to false messiah Shabtai Zvi. Gaza is within the boundaries of Shevet Yehuda in Biblical Israel (see Genesis 15, Joshua 15:47, Kings 15:47 and Judges 1:18) and therefore some have argued that there is a Halachic requirement to live in this land. The earliest settlement of the area is by Avraham and Yitzhak, both of whom lived in the Gerar area of Gaza. In the fourth century Gaza was the primary Jewish port of Israel for international trade and commerce.

Great medieval rabbis such as Rabbi Yisrael Najara, author of Kah Ribon Olam, the popular Shabbat song, and renowned Mekubal Rabbi Avraham Azoulai, were rabbanim in Gaza Jewish communities.

The periodic removal of Jews from Gaza goes back at least to the Romans in 61 CE, followed much later by the Crusaders, Napoleon, the Ottoman Turks, the British and the contemporary Egyptians. However, Jews definitely lived in Gaza throughout the centuries, with a stronger presence in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.

Jews were present in Gaza until 1929, when they were forced to leave the area due to violent riots against them by the Arabs. Following these riots, and the death of nearly 135 Jews in all, the British prohibited Jews from living in Gaza to quell tension and appease the Arabs. Some Jews returned, however, and, in 1946, kibbutz Kfar Darom was established to prevent the British from separating the Negev from the Jewish state.​




__





						History of Jewish Settlements in Gaza
					

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.




					www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
				



---------------------

[ The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, included Transjordan because it had been part of the Jewish homeland.  The British gave it to the Hashemites in 1922, who had just been kicked out of Arabia by the Yemenite Saudi Clan.  Easier than fighting the Saudis and make them go back to Yemen.  All Jews were kicked out of TransJordan by the Hashemites in 1925 ]


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
Click to expand...

The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.


----------



## surada

Roudy said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
Click to expand...


They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..

Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> [Bits and pieces of history which you like to spread are nice to read by those who are ignorant of Jewish History.
> 
> Has any Jew ever said that Jews were the sole inhabitants of the Land of Canaan, Israel, Judea?  No.
> 
> Has any Jew ever said that any tribe of Arabs did not settle in Judea or Samaria?  No ]
> -------------------------
> According to the Hebrew Bible, three of the ancient Israelite tribes were allocated lands on the east side of the Jordan River valley, in the territory of present-day Jordan. They were the tribes of Reuben, Gadand Manasseh.[2] These tribes were members of the Northern Kingdom of Israel until the kingdom was conquered by Assyria in c. 723 BCE and the population deported.
> 
> A nation related to the Israelites, the Edomites (Idumaeans) resided in present-day southern Jordan, between the Dead Sea and the Gulf of Aqaba.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iudaea Province on both sides of the Jordan Riverin the 1st century.
> The Hasmonean official Antipater the Idumaean was of Idumean origin. He was the progenitor of the Herodian dynasty that ruled Judeaafter the Roman conquest. When Herod the Great became king, Idumaea was ruled for him by a series of governors, among whom were his brother Joseph Antipater and his brother-in-law Costobarus.
> 
> Immediately before the siege of Jerusalem by Titus, 20,000 Idumaeans, under the leadership of John, Simeon, Phinehas, and Jacob, appeared before Jerusalem to fight on behalf of the zealotswho were besieged in the Second Temple.[3]
> 
> After the Jewish-Roman wars, the Idumaean people ceased to be mentioned in history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History of the Jews in Jordan - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------
> [The Philistines were invaders of Greek origin, who inhabited the land of Gaza for some time, conquering nations like Israel while they were an Empire. They are long gone, now. Before the Philistines, Gaza belonged to whoever lived there before the invading Greeks created the Philistine Empire ]
> -------------------------------
> Gaza first appears in the Tanach as a Philistine city, the site of Samson's dramatic death. Jews finally conquered it in the Hasmonean era, and continued to live there. Notable residents include Dunash Ibn Labrat, and Nathan of Gaza, advisor to false messiah Shabtai Zvi. Gaza is within the boundaries of Shevet Yehuda in Biblical Israel (see Genesis 15, Joshua 15:47, Kings 15:47 and Judges 1:18) and therefore some have argued that there is a Halachic requirement to live in this land. The earliest settlement of the area is by Avraham and Yitzhak, both of whom lived in the Gerar area of Gaza. In the fourth century Gaza was the primary Jewish port of Israel for international trade and commerce.
> 
> Great medieval rabbis such as Rabbi Yisrael Najara, author of Kah Ribon Olam, the popular Shabbat song, and renowned Mekubal Rabbi Avraham Azoulai, were rabbanim in Gaza Jewish communities.
> 
> The periodic removal of Jews from Gaza goes back at least to the Romans in 61 CE, followed much later by the Crusaders, Napoleon, the Ottoman Turks, the British and the contemporary Egyptians. However, Jews definitely lived in Gaza throughout the centuries, with a stronger presence in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.
> 
> Jews were present in Gaza until 1929, when they were forced to leave the area due to violent riots against them by the Arabs. Following these riots, and the death of nearly 135 Jews in all, the British prohibited Jews from living in Gaza to quell tension and appease the Arabs. Some Jews returned, however, and, in 1946, kibbutz Kfar Darom was established to prevent the British from separating the Negev from the Jewish state.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History of Jewish Settlements in Gaza
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------
> 
> [ The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, included Transjordan because it had been part of the Jewish homeland.  The British gave it to the Hashemites in 1922, who had just been kicked out of Arabia by the Yemenite Saudi Clan.  Easier than fighting the Saudis and make them go back to Yemen.  All Jews were kicked out of TransJordan by the Hashemites in 1925 ]
Click to expand...



The Saudis were not from Yemen.. All their connections were in the Hejaz and Kuwait.

Jordan was separated from ancient Palestine by the Jordan River, the region played a prominent role in biblical history. The ancient biblical kingdoms of Moab, Gilead, and Edom lie within its borders, as does the famed red stone city of Petra. The sister city of Petra is Madain Saleh in Arabia. Had nothing to do with Hebrews.


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc.
Click to expand...

There is no such thing as a Philistine today.  They are an extinct people.  Look it up.  "Palestine" is a completely different name created by White European Christians.  Today's Arabs who call themselves Palestinians would have been insulted if you called them that 100 years ago, as the name referred to Jews of the region, only.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> [Bits and pieces of history which you like to spread are nice to read by those who are ignorant of Jewish History.
> 
> Has any Jew ever said that Jews were the sole inhabitants of the Land of Canaan, Israel, Judea?  No.
> 
> Has any Jew ever said that any tribe of Arabs did not settle in Judea or Samaria?  No ]
> -------------------------
> According to the Hebrew Bible, three of the ancient Israelite tribes were allocated lands on the east side of the Jordan River valley, in the territory of present-day Jordan. They were the tribes of Reuben, Gadand Manasseh.[2] These tribes were members of the Northern Kingdom of Israel until the kingdom was conquered by Assyria in c. 723 BCE and the population deported.
> 
> A nation related to the Israelites, the Edomites (Idumaeans) resided in present-day southern Jordan, between the Dead Sea and the Gulf of Aqaba.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iudaea Province on both sides of the Jordan Riverin the 1st century.
> The Hasmonean official Antipater the Idumaean was of Idumean origin. He was the progenitor of the Herodian dynasty that ruled Judeaafter the Roman conquest. When Herod the Great became king, Idumaea was ruled for him by a series of governors, among whom were his brother Joseph Antipater and his brother-in-law Costobarus.
> 
> Immediately before the siege of Jerusalem by Titus, 20,000 Idumaeans, under the leadership of John, Simeon, Phinehas, and Jacob, appeared before Jerusalem to fight on behalf of the zealotswho were besieged in the Second Temple.[3]
> 
> After the Jewish-Roman wars, the Idumaean people ceased to be mentioned in history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History of the Jews in Jordan - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------
> [The Philistines were invaders of Greek origin, who inhabited the land of Gaza for some time, conquering nations like Israel while they were an Empire. They are long gone, now. Before the Philistines, Gaza belonged to whoever lived there before the invading Greeks created the Philistine Empire ]
> -------------------------------
> Gaza first appears in the Tanach as a Philistine city, the site of Samson's dramatic death. Jews finally conquered it in the Hasmonean era, and continued to live there. Notable residents include Dunash Ibn Labrat, and Nathan of Gaza, advisor to false messiah Shabtai Zvi. Gaza is within the boundaries of Shevet Yehuda in Biblical Israel (see Genesis 15, Joshua 15:47, Kings 15:47 and Judges 1:18) and therefore some have argued that there is a Halachic requirement to live in this land. The earliest settlement of the area is by Avraham and Yitzhak, both of whom lived in the Gerar area of Gaza. In the fourth century Gaza was the primary Jewish port of Israel for international trade and commerce.
> 
> Great medieval rabbis such as Rabbi Yisrael Najara, author of Kah Ribon Olam, the popular Shabbat song, and renowned Mekubal Rabbi Avraham Azoulai, were rabbanim in Gaza Jewish communities.
> 
> The periodic removal of Jews from Gaza goes back at least to the Romans in 61 CE, followed much later by the Crusaders, Napoleon, the Ottoman Turks, the British and the contemporary Egyptians. However, Jews definitely lived in Gaza throughout the centuries, with a stronger presence in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.
> 
> Jews were present in Gaza until 1929, when they were forced to leave the area due to violent riots against them by the Arabs. Following these riots, and the death of nearly 135 Jews in all, the British prohibited Jews from living in Gaza to quell tension and appease the Arabs. Some Jews returned, however, and, in 1946, kibbutz Kfar Darom was established to prevent the British from separating the Negev from the Jewish state.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History of Jewish Settlements in Gaza
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------
> 
> [ The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, included Transjordan because it had been part of the Jewish homeland.  The British gave it to the Hashemites in 1922, who had just been kicked out of Arabia by the Yemenite Saudi Clan.  Easier than fighting the Saudis and make them go back to Yemen.  All Jews were kicked out of TransJordan by the Hashemites in 1925 ]
Click to expand...


----------



## surada

Roudy said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no such thing as a Philistine today.  They are an extinct people.  Look it up.  "Palestine" is a completely different name created by White European Christians.  Today's Arabs who call themselves Palestinians would have been insulted if you called them that 100 years ago, as the name referred to Jews of the region, only.
Click to expand...


When I was a kid thousands of Palestinians worked in Arabia circa 1950.

Herodotus spoke of Syria-Palestine and so did Chaucer and Shakespeare.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
Click to expand...


Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.

The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.

And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.

That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
I will not repeat the information given above.
The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.

Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
------------------------

The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath. 

Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.

The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
​


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
Click to expand...


Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave .. 

Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.

The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc. 

They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave ..
> 
> Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.
> 
> The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc.
> 
> They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.
Click to expand...

When posting anything, please give links to your sources.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave ..
> 
> Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.
> 
> The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc.
> 
> They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When posting anything, please give links to your sources.
Click to expand...


What? The Bible? Even Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from the Babylonian exile. You question the Bible about the wives of Moses and Abraham? Or the history of Sargon 2 about the four Arab tribes he settled in Samaria in 738 BC?


----------



## Mindful

“The British chose to call the land they mandated Palestine, and the Arabs picked it up as their nation's supposed ancient name, though they couldn't even pronounce it correctly and turned it into Falastin a fictional entity. " — Golda Meir quoted by Sarah Honig, Jerusalem Post, 25 November 1995


----------



## surada

Mindful said:


> “The British chose to call the land they mandated Palestine, and the Arabs picked it up as their nation's supposed ancient name, though they couldn't even pronounce it correctly and turned it into Falastin a fictional entity. " — Golda Meir quoted by Sarah Honig, Jerusalem Post, 25 November 1995



Herodotus called it Syria-Palestine in 500 BC. Golde Meir was either ignorant or lying.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave ..
> 
> Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.
> 
> The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc.
> 
> They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When posting anything, please give links to your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What? The Bible? Even Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from the Babylonian exile. You question the Bible about the wives of Moses and Abraham? Or the history of Sargon 2 about the four Arab tribes he settled in Samaria in 738 BC?
Click to expand...

I do question your sources, which is not the Bible, but some interpretation of it by who knows who.

In Genesis 21:1, we learn that Abraham remarried three years after the death of Sarah. Once his son Isaac was married off, Abraham, at age 140, married Keturah, who bore him six children. 

But who exactly was Keturah and why did Abraham marry her? What pushed him to have six more children so late in life?

Rashi tells us that Keturah was one and the same as Hagar, whom Abraham had married more than 50 years prior (when he was 85 years of age), and who bore his firstborn, Ishmael.1



			https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/4171660/jewish/Who-Was-Keturah-and-Why-Did-Abraham-Marry-Her.htm
		



Hagar, or Keturah, was Egyptian, not Arab.

Abraham never was in Arabia, neither was Ishamel who also married an Egyptian,  as some Muslim Arab folklore attempts to spread to its Muslim followers, or anyone else.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> “The British chose to call the land they mandated Palestine, and the Arabs picked it up as their nation's supposed ancient name, though they couldn't even pronounce it correctly and turned it into Falastin a fictional entity. " — Golda Meir quoted by Sarah Honig, Jerusalem Post, 25 November 1995
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Herodotus called it Syria-Palestine in 500 BC. Golde Meir was either ignorant or lying.
Click to expand...

Really picking on straws.  Fascinating.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> “The British chose to call the land they mandated Palestine, and the Arabs picked it up as their nation's supposed ancient name, though they couldn't even pronounce it correctly and turned it into Falastin a fictional entity. " — Golda Meir quoted by Sarah Honig, Jerusalem Post, 25 November 1995
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Herodotus called it Syria-Palestine in 500 BC. Golde Meir was either ignorant or lying.
Click to expand...

The term "Palestine" first appeared in the 5th century BC when the ancient Greekhistorian Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called _Palaistinê_" between Phoeniciaand Egypt in _The Histories_.[6] Herodotus applied the term to both the coastal and the inland regions such as the Judean mountains and the Jordan Rift Valley.[7][8][9][10]Later Greek writers such as Aristotle, Polemon and Pausanias also used the word, which was followed by Roman writers such as Ovid, Tibullus, Pomponius Mela, Pliny the Elder, Dio Chrysostom, Statius, Plutarch as well as Roman Judean writers Philo of Alexandria and Josephus.[11] The word is not found on any Hellenistic coin or inscription, and is first known in official use in the early second century AD.[12]

In 135 AD, the Greek "Syria Palaestina" [a] was used in naming a new Roman province from the merger of Roman Syria and Roman Judaea *after the Roman authorities crushed the Bar Kokhba Revolt.* Circumstantial evidence links Hadrian to the renaming of the province, which took place around the same time as Jerusalem was refounded as Aelia Capitolina, but the precise date of the change in province name is uncertain.[13] The common view that the name change was intended to "sever the connection of the Jews to their historical homeland" is disputed.[14][15]

(full article online)









						Timeline of the name Palestine - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				





In other words, Herodotus did not call it Syria-Palestine, the Romans combined Syria and Judea and called it Syria Palestine in order to humiliate the Jews and try to force them to forget their homeland so that the revolts, like that of Bar Kochba, would not happen again.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> “The British chose to call the land they mandated Palestine, and the Arabs picked it up as their nation's supposed ancient name, though they couldn't even pronounce it correctly and turned it into Falastin a fictional entity. " — Golda Meir quoted by Sarah Honig, Jerusalem Post, 25 November 1995
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Herodotus called it Syria-Palestine in 500 BC. Golde Meir was either ignorant or lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The term "Palestine" first appeared in the 5th century BC when the ancient Greekhistorian Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called _Palaistinê_" between Phoeniciaand Egypt in _The Histories_.[6] Herodotus applied the term to both the coastal and the inland regions such as the Judean mountains and the Jordan Rift Valley.[7][8][9][10]Later Greek writers such as Aristotle, Polemon and Pausanias also used the word, which was followed by Roman writers such as Ovid, Tibullus, Pomponius Mela, Pliny the Elder, Dio Chrysostom, Statius, Plutarch as well as Roman Judean writers Philo of Alexandria and Josephus.[11] The word is not found on any Hellenistic coin or inscription, and is first known in official use in the early second century AD.[12]
> 
> In 135 AD, the Greek "Syria Palaestina" [a] was used in naming a new Roman province from the merger of Roman Syria and Roman Judaea *after the Roman authorities crushed the Bar Kokhba Revolt.* Circumstantial evidence links Hadrian to the renaming of the province, which took place around the same time as Jerusalem was refounded as Aelia Capitolina, but the precise date of the change in province name is uncertain.[13] The common view that the name change was intended to "sever the connection of the Jews to their historical homeland" is disputed.[14][15]
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Timeline of the name Palestine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...


Yes, I know..


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> “The British chose to call the land they mandated Palestine, and the Arabs picked it up as their nation's supposed ancient name, though they couldn't even pronounce it correctly and turned it into Falastin a fictional entity. " — Golda Meir quoted by Sarah Honig, Jerusalem Post, 25 November 1995
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Herodotus called it Syria-Palestine in 500 BC. Golde Meir was either ignorant or lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The term "Palestine" first appeared in the 5th century BC when the ancient Greekhistorian Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called _Palaistinê_" between Phoeniciaand Egypt in _The Histories_.[6] Herodotus applied the term to both the coastal and the inland regions such as the Judean mountains and the Jordan Rift Valley.[7][8][9][10]Later Greek writers such as Aristotle, Polemon and Pausanias also used the word, which was followed by Roman writers such as Ovid, Tibullus, Pomponius Mela, Pliny the Elder, Dio Chrysostom, Statius, Plutarch as well as Roman Judean writers Philo of Alexandria and Josephus.[11] The word is not found on any Hellenistic coin or inscription, and is first known in official use in the early second century AD.[12]
> 
> In 135 AD, the Greek "Syria Palaestina" [a] was used in naming a new Roman province from the merger of Roman Syria and Roman Judaea *after the Roman authorities crushed the Bar Kokhba Revolt.* Circumstantial evidence links Hadrian to the renaming of the province, which took place around the same time as Jerusalem was refounded as Aelia Capitolina, but the precise date of the change in province name is uncertain.[13] The common view that the name change was intended to "sever the connection of the Jews to their historical homeland" is disputed.[14][15]
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Timeline of the name Palestine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I know..
Click to expand...

Sorry, you do not know because that is not what you have been arguing about.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: The The Right To Destroy Jewish History
SUBTOPIC: History Lesson:  "when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?"  (Sixties Fan)
⁜→  et al,

*BLUF*: Sometime into the future, the Jews will re-embrace the spirit of the ancient Hebrew, and something new will emerge.

*(COMMENT)*

The Jewish People know their history.  It will never die.  It will be preserved and recorded; both the good and the bad.

Eventually, the people of Israel will set in place a living and ever-growing "temple and monument" celebrating their history and recording their timeline starting from the beginning and annually updated.   It might take the form of a cross between the grandeur of Mount Rushmore and Abu Simbel; both impressive or awesome.  Probably somewhere in the mountains_ (maybe someplace in the south portion of Israel)_.  It could become a project that each generation will add to and appreciate.

But I don't think that history will ever be destroyed.  And no Israeli should worry about such a thing.  It will be carved in stone like hieroglyphs obelisks and stelae.  Maybe a part of it could be a retreat for the Jewish Rabbi.  But, the Jewish people will do something that will rival the legend of Petra or the Library of Alexandria.

Whereas, I don't see the Arab Palestinian building anything similar.  Hell, they cannot make improvements of their own on anything.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Mindful

RoccoR said:


> Whereas, I don't see the Arab Palestinian building anything similar.



Because there’s no precedent.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave ..
> 
> Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.
> 
> The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc.
> 
> They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When posting anything, please give links to your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What? The Bible? Even Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from the Babylonian exile. You question the Bible about the wives of Moses and Abraham? Or the history of Sargon 2 about the four Arab tribes he settled in Samaria in 738 BC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do question your sources, which is not the Bible, but some interpretation of it by who knows who.
> 
> In Genesis 21:1, we learn that Abraham remarried three years after the death of Sarah. Once his son Isaac was married off, Abraham, at age 140, married Keturah, who bore him six children.
> 
> But who exactly was Keturah and why did Abraham marry her? What pushed him to have six more children so late in life?
> 
> Rashi tells us that Keturah was one and the same as Hagar, whom Abraham had married more than 50 years prior (when he was 85 years of age), and who bore his firstborn, Ishmael.1
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/4171660/jewish/Who-Was-Keturah-and-Why-Did-Abraham-Marry-Her.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hagar, or Keturah, was Egyptian, not Arab.
> 
> Abraham never was in Arabia, neither was Ishamel who also married an Egyptian,  as some Muslim Arab folklore attempts to spread to its Muslim followers, or anyone else.
Click to expand...


No Hagar was an Egyptian





Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave ..
> 
> Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.
> 
> The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc.
> 
> They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When posting anything, please give links to your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What? The Bible? Even Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from the Babylonian exile. You question the Bible about the wives of Moses and Abraham? Or the history of Sargon 2 about the four Arab tribes he settled in Samaria in 738 BC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do question your sources, which is not the Bible, but some interpretation of it by who knows who.
> 
> In Genesis 21:1, we learn that Abraham remarried three years after the death of Sarah. Once his son Isaac was married off, Abraham, at age 140, married Keturah, who bore him six children.
> 
> But who exactly was Keturah and why did Abraham marry her? What pushed him to have six more children so late in life?
> 
> Rashi tells us that Keturah was one and the same as Hagar, whom Abraham had married more than 50 years prior (when he was 85 years of age), and who bore his firstborn, Ishmael.1
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/4171660/jewish/Who-Was-Keturah-and-Why-Did-Abraham-Marry-Her.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hagar, or Keturah, was Egyptian, not Arab.
> 
> Abraham never was in Arabia, neither was Ishamel who also married an Egyptian,  as some Muslim Arab folklore attempts to spread to its Muslim followers, or anyone else.
Click to expand...


 Keturah bore Abraham six sons: Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah. Genesis and First Chronicles also list seven of her grandsons (Sheba, Dedan, Ephah, Epher, Hanoch, Abida, and Eldaah). Keturah's sons were said to have represented the Arab tribes who lived south and east of Israel (Genesis 25:1-6).

 According to the Judean authors Josephus and Cleodemus Malchus, Punic people were descended from Epher, grandson of Abraham and Keturah


----------



## surada

After Sarah’s death Abraham took another wife  named Keturah (Genesis 25:1-3). Abraham had six other sons through Keturah after the birth of Isaac (Zimran and Jokshan and Medan and Midian and Ishbak and Shuah). 

All of Keturah’s sons eventually became the heads of Arab tribes. 

Later Moses married Zipporah the daughter of Jethro the priest of Midian, (Exodus 2:16-22). Jethro recognized the true God and even gave Moses good advice which apparently pleased the Lord (Exodus 18). 

Certainly the Midianites had some revelation of God through their father Abraham. 

As historians have observed, Arab tribes and clans were involved in idolatry for many centuries. In a similar way Jews were also involved in idolatry, which is why God gave them scriptures and prophets to bring them back to repentance.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> After Sarah’s death Abraham took another wife  named Keturah (Genesis 25:1-3). Abraham had six other sons through Keturah after the birth of Isaac (Zimran and Jokshan and Medan and Midian and Ishbak and Shuah).
> 
> All of Keturah’s sons eventually became the heads of Arab tribes.
> 
> Later Moses married Zipporah the daughter of Jethro the priest of Midian, (Exodus 2:16-22). Jethro recognized the true God and even gave Moses good advice which apparently pleased the Lord (Exodus 18).
> 
> Certainly the Midianites had some revelation of God through their father Abraham.
> 
> As historians have observed, Arab tribes and clans were involved in idolatry for many centuries. In a similar way Jews were also involved in idolatry, which is why God gave them scriptures and prophets to bring them back to repentance.


Keturah was Hagar.  Hagar was Egyptian.
Repeat it a thousand times until you understand it.

Nowhere in Genesis does it say that the sons became heads of Arab tribes.  That is a post Mohammad, Islam fable to make Muslims think that they are really descendants of Abraham.

Not then, not now, never.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave ..
> 
> Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.
> 
> The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc.
> 
> They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When posting anything, please give links to your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What? The Bible? Even Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from the Babylonian exile. You question the Bible about the wives of Moses and Abraham? Or the history of Sargon 2 about the four Arab tribes he settled in Samaria in 738 BC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do question your sources, which is not the Bible, but some interpretation of it by who knows who.
> 
> In Genesis 21:1, we learn that Abraham remarried three years after the death of Sarah. Once his son Isaac was married off, Abraham, at age 140, married Keturah, who bore him six children.
> 
> But who exactly was Keturah and why did Abraham marry her? What pushed him to have six more children so late in life?
> 
> Rashi tells us that Keturah was one and the same as Hagar, whom Abraham had married more than 50 years prior (when he was 85 years of age), and who bore his firstborn, Ishmael.1
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/4171660/jewish/Who-Was-Keturah-and-Why-Did-Abraham-Marry-Her.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hagar, or Keturah, was Egyptian, not Arab.
> 
> Abraham never was in Arabia, neither was Ishamel who also married an Egyptian,  as some Muslim Arab folklore attempts to spread to its Muslim followers, or anyone else.
Click to expand...


Do you actually believe Abraham was 140 years old.. Life expectancy was not long in the ME.. 75-80 was extreme old age.. Most men married before they were 20 and most girls before  they were 16.

Jews have their folklore too.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> After Sarah’s death Abraham took another wife  named Keturah (Genesis 25:1-3). Abraham had six other sons through Keturah after the birth of Isaac (Zimran and Jokshan and Medan and Midian and Ishbak and Shuah).
> 
> All of Keturah’s sons eventually became the heads of Arab tribes.
> 
> Later Moses married Zipporah the daughter of Jethro the priest of Midian, (Exodus 2:16-22). Jethro recognized the true God and even gave Moses good advice which apparently pleased the Lord (Exodus 18).
> 
> Certainly the Midianites had some revelation of God through their father Abraham.
> 
> As historians have observed, Arab tribes and clans were involved in idolatry for many centuries. In a similar way Jews were also involved in idolatry, which is why God gave them scriptures and prophets to bring them back to repentance.
> 
> 
> 
> Keturah was Hagar.  Hagar was Egyptian.
> Repeat it a thousand times until you understand it.
> 
> Nowhere in Genesis does it say that the sons became heads of Arab tribes.  That is a post Mohammad, Islam fable to make Muslims think that they are really descendants of Abraham.
> 
> Not then, not now, never.
Click to expand...


Nope. Keturah wasn't Hagar.. Read your Torah carefully.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave ..
> 
> Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.
> 
> The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc.
> 
> They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When posting anything, please give links to your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What? The Bible? Even Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from the Babylonian exile. You question the Bible about the wives of Moses and Abraham? Or the history of Sargon 2 about the four Arab tribes he settled in Samaria in 738 BC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do question your sources, which is not the Bible, but some interpretation of it by who knows who.
> 
> In Genesis 21:1, we learn that Abraham remarried three years after the death of Sarah. Once his son Isaac was married off, Abraham, at age 140, married Keturah, who bore him six children.
> 
> But who exactly was Keturah and why did Abraham marry her? What pushed him to have six more children so late in life?
> 
> Rashi tells us that Keturah was one and the same as Hagar, whom Abraham had married more than 50 years prior (when he was 85 years of age), and who bore his firstborn, Ishmael.1
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/4171660/jewish/Who-Was-Keturah-and-Why-Did-Abraham-Marry-Her.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hagar, or Keturah, was Egyptian, not Arab.
> 
> Abraham never was in Arabia, neither was Ishamel who also married an Egyptian,  as some Muslim Arab folklore attempts to spread to its Muslim followers, or anyone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you actually believe Abraham was 140 years old.. Life expectancy was not long in the ME.. 75-80 was extreme old age.. Most men married before they were 20 and most girls before  they were 16.
> 
> Jews have their folklore too.
Click to expand...

Our folklore is our folklore.  We respect other people's folklore and expect them to respect ours, instead of stealing most or all of it, and then telling us that what is our stories or history, really never was as it is written and understood by Jews for the past 3800 years.

But you are not here to respect anything about Jewish history and the Jewish people's rights to be sovereign over any part of their land.  That is extremely clear from your never ending deflections  to anything which is posed to you.

Whether you are Christian or Muslim, the lack of respect by both religions towards Judaism began at the foundation of either ideology, be it 2000 years ago, or 1300 years ago.  Both were formed at the total disrespect, delegitimization  and endless disregard for the truth, and each got started by the idea that either was superior to Judaism and therefore Jews should have followed either one, "Or Else".

You spill one debunkable idea after another, and never really answer points I or others have made.  And never will.


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave ..
> 
> Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.
> 
> The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc.
> 
> They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.
Click to expand...

Jesus was raised as a Jew, among the Jews of occupied Judeah.  There was no such thing as a Palestine during Jesus' time.  The ignorance is astounding.


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave ..
> 
> Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.
> 
> The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc.
> 
> They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When posting anything, please give links to your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What? The Bible? Even Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from the Babylonian exile. You question the Bible about the wives of Moses and Abraham? Or the history of Sargon 2 about the four Arab tribes he settled in Samaria in 738 BC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do question your sources, which is not the Bible, but some interpretation of it by who knows who.
> 
> In Genesis 21:1, we learn that Abraham remarried three years after the death of Sarah. Once his son Isaac was married off, Abraham, at age 140, married Keturah, who bore him six children.
> 
> But who exactly was Keturah and why did Abraham marry her? What pushed him to have six more children so late in life?
> 
> Rashi tells us that Keturah was one and the same as Hagar, whom Abraham had married more than 50 years prior (when he was 85 years of age), and who bore his firstborn, Ishmael.1
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/4171660/jewish/Who-Was-Keturah-and-Why-Did-Abraham-Marry-Her.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hagar, or Keturah, was Egyptian, not Arab.
> 
> Abraham never was in Arabia, neither was Ishamel who also married an Egyptian,  as some Muslim Arab folklore attempts to spread to its Muslim followers, or anyone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you actually believe Abraham was 140 years old.. Life expectancy was not long in the ME.. 75-80 was extreme old age.. Most men married before they were 20 and most girls before  they were 16.
> 
> Jews have their folklore too.
Click to expand...

Do you believe Mohammad married a nine year old whom he got engaged to at the age of 6?


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## RoccoR

RE: The Right To Destroy Jewish History
SUBTOPIC: Arranged Marriages
⁜→ Roudy, _et al,_

*BLUF*: I'm not sure we are using the same concept in the "term" marriage.

*(COMMENT)*

As I understand it the, in the early half of the first millenium, arranged marriages can happen very early in life.  Families can form an alliance, based on a future commitment, by pledging a marriage very early in the life of children.   

From ancient times, right up through the 18th century, families were related through marriage commitments arranged by parents.  The commitment may not be completed for another decade, but the promise of marriage between the children of families was important factor in political or economic/commercial terms.  Today's practice of wedding notices and announcements of engagements and marriages dates back to those times.

These types of arrangements have no real immoral intent.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Roudy

RoccoR said:


> RE: The Right To Destroy Jewish History
> SUBTOPIC: Arranged Marriages
> ⁜→ Roudy, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*: I'm not sure we are using the same concept in the "term" marriage.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As I understand it the, in the early half of the first millenium, arranged marriages can happen very early in life.  Families can form an alliance, based on a future commitment, by pledging a marriage very early in the life of children.
> 
> From ancient times, right up through the 18th century, families were related through marriage commitments arranged by parents.  The commitment may not be completed for another decade, but the promise of marriage between the children of families was important factor in political or economic/commercial terms.  Today's practice of wedding notices and announcements of engagements and marriages dates back to those times.
> 
> These types of arrangements have no real immoral intent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


Yes it was arranged.  Apparently Mohammad threatened her father.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
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> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
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> surada said:
> 
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> 
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> Sixties Fan said:
> 
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> surada said:
> 
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> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave ..
> 
> Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.
> 
> The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc.
> 
> They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When posting anything, please give links to your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What? The Bible? Even Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from the Babylonian exile. You question the Bible about the wives of Moses and Abraham? Or the history of Sargon 2 about the four Arab tribes he settled in Samaria in 738 BC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do question your sources, which is not the Bible, but some interpretation of it by who knows who.
> 
> In Genesis 21:1, we learn that Abraham remarried three years after the death of Sarah. Once his son Isaac was married off, Abraham, at age 140, married Keturah, who bore him six children.
> 
> But who exactly was Keturah and why did Abraham marry her? What pushed him to have six more children so late in life?
> 
> Rashi tells us that Keturah was one and the same as Hagar, whom Abraham had married more than 50 years prior (when he was 85 years of age), and who bore his firstborn, Ishmael.1
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/4171660/jewish/Who-Was-Keturah-and-Why-Did-Abraham-Marry-Her.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hagar, or Keturah, was Egyptian, not Arab.
> 
> Abraham never was in Arabia, neither was Ishamel who also married an Egyptian,  as some Muslim Arab folklore attempts to spread to its Muslim followers, or anyone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you actually believe Abraham was 140 years old.. Life expectancy was not long in the ME.. 75-80 was extreme old age.. Most men married before they were 20 and most girls before  they were 16.
> 
> Jews have their folklore too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our folklore is our folklore.  We respect other people's folklore and expect them to respect ours, instead of stealing most or all of it, and then telling us that what is our stories or history, really never was as it is written and understood by Jews for the past 3800 years.
> 
> But you are not here to respect anything about Jewish history and the Jewish people's rights to be sovereign over any part of their land.  That is extremely clear from your never ending deflections  to anything which is posed to you.
> 
> Whether you are Christian or Muslim, the lack of respect by both religions towards Judaism began at the foundation of either ideology, be it 2000 years ago, or 1300 years ago.  Both were formed at the total disrespect, delegitimization  and endless disregard for the truth, and each got started by the idea that either was superior to Judaism and therefore Jews should have followed either one, "Or Else".
> 
> You spill one debunkable idea after another, and never really answer points I or others have made.  And never will.
Click to expand...


Jews, Muslims and Christians lived side by side for more than a thousand years.  . and the Arab Jews prospered.. You are are too keen to shift blame for the Holocaust on the Arabs, to justify what European Zionist have done.

Why do you think most Jews did not live in Palestine by the time of Christ?


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave ..
> 
> Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.
> 
> The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc.
> 
> They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When posting anything, please give links to your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What? The Bible? Even Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from the Babylonian exile. You question the Bible about the wives of Moses and Abraham? Or the history of Sargon 2 about the four Arab tribes he settled in Samaria in 738 BC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do question your sources, which is not the Bible, but some interpretation of it by who knows who.
> 
> In Genesis 21:1, we learn that Abraham remarried three years after the death of Sarah. Once his son Isaac was married off, Abraham, at age 140, married Keturah, who bore him six children.
> 
> But who exactly was Keturah and why did Abraham marry her? What pushed him to have six more children so late in life?
> 
> Rashi tells us that Keturah was one and the same as Hagar, whom Abraham had married more than 50 years prior (when he was 85 years of age), and who bore his firstborn, Ishmael.1
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/4171660/jewish/Who-Was-Keturah-and-Why-Did-Abraham-Marry-Her.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hagar, or Keturah, was Egyptian, not Arab.
> 
> Abraham never was in Arabia, neither was Ishamel who also married an Egyptian,  as some Muslim Arab folklore attempts to spread to its Muslim followers, or anyone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you actually believe Abraham was 140 years old.. Life expectancy was not long in the ME.. 75-80 was extreme old age.. Most men married before they were 20 and most girls before  they were 16.
> 
> Jews have their folklore too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our folklore is our folklore.  We respect other people's folklore and expect them to respect ours, instead of stealing most or all of it, and then telling us that what is our stories or history, really never was as it is written and understood by Jews for the past 3800 years.
> 
> But you are not here to respect anything about Jewish history and the Jewish people's rights to be sovereign over any part of their land.  That is extremely clear from your never ending deflections  to anything which is posed to you.
> 
> Whether you are Christian or Muslim, the lack of respect by both religions towards Judaism began at the foundation of either ideology, be it 2000 years ago, or 1300 years ago.  Both were formed at the total disrespect, delegitimization  and endless disregard for the truth, and each got started by the idea that either was superior to Judaism and therefore Jews should have followed either one, "Or Else".
> 
> You spill one debunkable idea after another, and never really answer points I or others have made.  And never will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews, Muslims and Christians lived side by side for more than a thousand years.  . and the Arab Jews prospered.. You are are too keen to shift blame for the Holocaust on the Arabs, to justify what European Zionist have done.
> 
> Why do you think most Jews did not live in Palestine by the time of Christ?
Click to expand...

Actually all Jews did live in Judeah during Jesus' Time.  The diaspora began after that.  Another completely ignorant comment.


----------



## surada

Roudy said:


> surada said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
> 
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> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave ..
> 
> Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.
> 
> The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc.
> 
> They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When posting anything, please give links to your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What? The Bible? Even Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from the Babylonian exile. You question the Bible about the wives of Moses and Abraham? Or the history of Sargon 2 about the four Arab tribes he settled in Samaria in 738 BC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do question your sources, which is not the Bible, but some interpretation of it by who knows who.
> 
> In Genesis 21:1, we learn that Abraham remarried three years after the death of Sarah. Once his son Isaac was married off, Abraham, at age 140, married Keturah, who bore him six children.
> 
> But who exactly was Keturah and why did Abraham marry her? What pushed him to have six more children so late in life?
> 
> Rashi tells us that Keturah was one and the same as Hagar, whom Abraham had married more than 50 years prior (when he was 85 years of age), and who bore his firstborn, Ishmael.1
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/4171660/jewish/Who-Was-Keturah-and-Why-Did-Abraham-Marry-Her.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hagar, or Keturah, was Egyptian, not Arab.
> 
> Abraham never was in Arabia, neither was Ishamel who also married an Egyptian,  as some Muslim Arab folklore attempts to spread to its Muslim followers, or anyone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you actually believe Abraham was 140 years old.. Life expectancy was not long in the ME.. 75-80 was extreme old age.. Most men married before they were 20 and most girls before  they were 16.
> 
> Jews have their folklore too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our folklore is our folklore.  We respect other people's folklore and expect them to respect ours, instead of stealing most or all of it, and then telling us that what is our stories or history, really never was as it is written and understood by Jews for the past 3800 years.
> 
> But you are not here to respect anything about Jewish history and the Jewish people's rights to be sovereign over any part of their land.  That is extremely clear from your never ending deflections  to anything which is posed to you.
> 
> Whether you are Christian or Muslim, the lack of respect by both religions towards Judaism began at the foundation of either ideology, be it 2000 years ago, or 1300 years ago.  Both were formed at the total disrespect, delegitimization  and endless disregard for the truth, and each got started by the idea that either was superior to Judaism and therefore Jews should have followed either one, "Or Else".
> 
> You spill one debunkable idea after another, and never really answer points I or others have made.  And never will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews, Muslims and Christians lived side by side for more than a thousand years.  . and the Arab Jews prospered.. You are are too keen to shift blame for the Holocaust on the Arabs, to justify what European Zionist have done.
> 
> Why do you think most Jews did not live in Palestine by the time of Christ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually all Jews did live in Judeah during Jesus' Time.  The diaspora began after that.  Another completely ignorant comment.
Click to expand...


Nope the diaspora began 500 years earlier.. Check your facts. Start with Elephantine Island in Egypt ad then go to Persia and Damascus, Alexandria and Aleppo.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave ..
> 
> Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.
> 
> The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc.
> 
> They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When posting anything, please give links to your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What? The Bible? Even Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from the Babylonian exile. You question the Bible about the wives of Moses and Abraham? Or the history of Sargon 2 about the four Arab tribes he settled in Samaria in 738 BC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do question your sources, which is not the Bible, but some interpretation of it by who knows who.
> 
> In Genesis 21:1, we learn that Abraham remarried three years after the death of Sarah. Once his son Isaac was married off, Abraham, at age 140, married Keturah, who bore him six children.
> 
> But who exactly was Keturah and why did Abraham marry her? What pushed him to have six more children so late in life?
> 
> Rashi tells us that Keturah was one and the same as Hagar, whom Abraham had married more than 50 years prior (when he was 85 years of age), and who bore his firstborn, Ishmael.1
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/4171660/jewish/Who-Was-Keturah-and-Why-Did-Abraham-Marry-Her.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hagar, or Keturah, was Egyptian, not Arab.
> 
> Abraham never was in Arabia, neither was Ishamel who also married an Egyptian,  as some Muslim Arab folklore attempts to spread to its Muslim followers, or anyone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you actually believe Abraham was 140 years old.. Life expectancy was not long in the ME.. 75-80 was extreme old age.. Most men married before they were 20 and most girls before  they were 16.
> 
> Jews have their folklore too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our folklore is our folklore.  We respect other people's folklore and expect them to respect ours, instead of stealing most or all of it, and then telling us that what is our stories or history, really never was as it is written and understood by Jews for the past 3800 years.
> 
> But you are not here to respect anything about Jewish history and the Jewish people's rights to be sovereign over any part of their land.  That is extremely clear from your never ending deflections  to anything which is posed to you.
> 
> Whether you are Christian or Muslim, the lack of respect by both religions towards Judaism began at the foundation of either ideology, be it 2000 years ago, or 1300 years ago.  Both were formed at the total disrespect, delegitimization  and endless disregard for the truth, and each got started by the idea that either was superior to Judaism and therefore Jews should have followed either one, "Or Else".
> 
> You spill one debunkable idea after another, and never really answer points I or others have made.  And never will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews, Muslims and Christians lived side by side for more than a thousand years.  . and the Arab Jews prospered.. You are are too keen to shift blame for the Holocaust on the Arabs, to justify what European Zionist have done.
> 
> Why do you think most Jews did not live in Palestine by the time of Christ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually all Jews did live in Judeah during Jesus' Time.  The diaspora began after that.  Another completely ignorant comment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope the diaspora began 500 years earlier.. Check your facts. Start with Elephantine Island in Egypt ad then go to Persia and Damascus, Alexandria and Aleppo.
Click to expand...

The Diaspora started with the Babylonians taking the leaders of the Jews from Judea to Babylon and keeping them from returning.

Any other Jews who lived anywhere else outside of Judea, Israel, had migrated to those areas before and after that invasion,  keeping their religion wherever they went at any other time.

The Messianic idea started with the Babylonian invasion and the taking of the leaders to Babylon.  It was the beginning of the Diaspora.

All of the above is about a Jewish leader freeing the land of Israel/Judea from any invading people and restoring sovereignty over the land, and the Jewish people again being a free people and owner of their land and their own destiny.

 As it is today.

According to this article this is when it began:

 The Jewish diaspora began with the Assyrian captivity and continued on a much larger scale with the Babylonian captivity. Jews were also widespread throughout the Roman Empire, and this carried on to a lesser extent in the period of Byzantine rule in the central and eastern Mediterranean.









						Jewish history - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				












						Jewish diaspora - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Roudy

Sixties Fan said:


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> surada said:
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> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave ..
> 
> Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.
> 
> The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc.
> 
> They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When posting anything, please give links to your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What? The Bible? Even Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from the Babylonian exile. You question the Bible about the wives of Moses and Abraham? Or the history of Sargon 2 about the four Arab tribes he settled in Samaria in 738 BC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do question your sources, which is not the Bible, but some interpretation of it by who knows who.
> 
> In Genesis 21:1, we learn that Abraham remarried three years after the death of Sarah. Once his son Isaac was married off, Abraham, at age 140, married Keturah, who bore him six children.
> 
> But who exactly was Keturah and why did Abraham marry her? What pushed him to have six more children so late in life?
> 
> Rashi tells us that Keturah was one and the same as Hagar, whom Abraham had married more than 50 years prior (when he was 85 years of age), and who bore his firstborn, Ishmael.1
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/4171660/jewish/Who-Was-Keturah-and-Why-Did-Abraham-Marry-Her.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hagar, or Keturah, was Egyptian, not Arab.
> 
> Abraham never was in Arabia, neither was Ishamel who also married an Egyptian,  as some Muslim Arab folklore attempts to spread to its Muslim followers, or anyone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you actually believe Abraham was 140 years old.. Life expectancy was not long in the ME.. 75-80 was extreme old age.. Most men married before they were 20 and most girls before  they were 16.
> 
> Jews have their folklore too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our folklore is our folklore.  We respect other people's folklore and expect them to respect ours, instead of stealing most or all of it, and then telling us that what is our stories or history, really never was as it is written and understood by Jews for the past 3800 years.
> 
> But you are not here to respect anything about Jewish history and the Jewish people's rights to be sovereign over any part of their land.  That is extremely clear from your never ending deflections  to anything which is posed to you.
> 
> Whether you are Christian or Muslim, the lack of respect by both religions towards Judaism began at the foundation of either ideology, be it 2000 years ago, or 1300 years ago.  Both were formed at the total disrespect, delegitimization  and endless disregard for the truth, and each got started by the idea that either was superior to Judaism and therefore Jews should have followed either one, "Or Else".
> 
> You spill one debunkable idea after another, and never really answer points I or others have made.  And never will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews, Muslims and Christians lived side by side for more than a thousand years.  . and the Arab Jews prospered.. You are are too keen to shift blame for the Holocaust on the Arabs, to justify what European Zionist have done.
> 
> Why do you think most Jews did not live in Palestine by the time of Christ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually all Jews did live in Judeah during Jesus' Time.  The diaspora began after that.  Another completely ignorant comment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope the diaspora began 500 years earlier.. Check your facts. Start with Elephantine Island in Egypt ad then go to Persia and Damascus, Alexandria and Aleppo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Diaspora started with the Babylonians taking the leaders of the Jews from Judea to Babylon and keeping them from returning.
> 
> Any other Jews who lived anywhere else outside of Judea, Israel, had migrated to those areas before and after that invasion,  keeping their religion wherever they went at any other time.
> 
> The Messianic idea started with the Babylonian invasion and the taking of the leaders to Babylon.  It was the beginning of the Diaspora.
> 
> All of the above is about a Jewish leader freeing the land of Israel/Judea from any invading people and restoring sovereignty over the land, and the Jewish people again being a free people and owner of their land and their own destiny.
> 
> As it is today.
> 
> According to this article this is when it began:
> 
> The Jewish diaspora began with the Assyrian captivity and continued on a much larger scale with the Babylonian captivity. Jews were also widespread throughout the Roman Empire, and this carried on to a lesser extent in the period of Byzantine rule in the central and eastern Mediterranean.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish history - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish diaspora - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...

This is what happens when you get your info from IslamoNazi sources.


----------



## surada

Roudy said:


> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
> 
> 
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> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave ..
> 
> Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.
> 
> The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc.
> 
> They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When posting anything, please give links to your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What? The Bible? Even Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from the Babylonian exile. You question the Bible about the wives of Moses and Abraham? Or the history of Sargon 2 about the four Arab tribes he settled in Samaria in 738 BC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do question your sources, which is not the Bible, but some interpretation of it by who knows who.
> 
> In Genesis 21:1, we learn that Abraham remarried three years after the death of Sarah. Once his son Isaac was married off, Abraham, at age 140, married Keturah, who bore him six children.
> 
> But who exactly was Keturah and why did Abraham marry her? What pushed him to have six more children so late in life?
> 
> Rashi tells us that Keturah was one and the same as Hagar, whom Abraham had married more than 50 years prior (when he was 85 years of age), and who bore his firstborn, Ishmael.1
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/4171660/jewish/Who-Was-Keturah-and-Why-Did-Abraham-Marry-Her.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hagar, or Keturah, was Egyptian, not Arab.
> 
> Abraham never was in Arabia, neither was Ishamel who also married an Egyptian,  as some Muslim Arab folklore attempts to spread to its Muslim followers, or anyone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you actually believe Abraham was 140 years old.. Life expectancy was not long in the ME.. 75-80 was extreme old age.. Most men married before they were 20 and most girls before  they were 16.
> 
> Jews have their folklore too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our folklore is our folklore.  We respect other people's folklore and expect them to respect ours, instead of stealing most or all of it, and then telling us that what is our stories or history, really never was as it is written and understood by Jews for the past 3800 years.
> 
> But you are not here to respect anything about Jewish history and the Jewish people's rights to be sovereign over any part of their land.  That is extremely clear from your never ending deflections  to anything which is posed to you.
> 
> Whether you are Christian or Muslim, the lack of respect by both religions towards Judaism began at the foundation of either ideology, be it 2000 years ago, or 1300 years ago.  Both were formed at the total disrespect, delegitimization  and endless disregard for the truth, and each got started by the idea that either was superior to Judaism and therefore Jews should have followed either one, "Or Else".
> 
> You spill one debunkable idea after another, and never really answer points I or others have made.  And never will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews, Muslims and Christians lived side by side for more than a thousand years.  . and the Arab Jews prospered.. You are are too keen to shift blame for the Holocaust on the Arabs, to justify what European Zionist have done.
> 
> Why do you think most Jews did not live in Palestine by the time of Christ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually all Jews did live in Judeah during Jesus' Time.  The diaspora began after that.  Another completely ignorant comment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope the diaspora began 500 years earlier.. Check your facts. Start with Elephantine Island in Egypt ad then go to Persia and Damascus, Alexandria and Aleppo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Diaspora started with the Babylonians taking the leaders of the Jews from Judea to Babylon and keeping them from returning.
> 
> Any other Jews who lived anywhere else outside of Judea, Israel, had migrated to those areas before and after that invasion,  keeping their religion wherever they went at any other time.
> 
> The Messianic idea started with the Babylonian invasion and the taking of the leaders to Babylon.  It was the beginning of the Diaspora.
> 
> All of the above is about a Jewish leader freeing the land of Israel/Judea from any invading people and restoring sovereignty over the land, and the Jewish people again being a free people and owner of their land and their own destiny.
> 
> As it is today.
> 
> According to this article this is when it began:
> 
> The Jewish diaspora began with the Assyrian captivity and continued on a much larger scale with the Babylonian captivity. Jews were also widespread throughout the Roman Empire, and this carried on to a lesser extent in the period of Byzantine rule in the central and eastern Mediterranean.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish history - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish diaspora - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is what happens when you get your info from IslamoNazi sources.
Click to expand...


*Zionism - The desire of a dispersed, scattered cultural group to return to an ancestral homeland after 2000 years of expulsion This is a motive. It's a desire. An objective.

Indigenous - Any and all culture groups that previously resided an area that is now under occupation and settlement by another culture group that has replaced, not integrated, culture / language etc. This is an adjective to describe a people or culture group.

Occupation - a condition whereby a culture group is being policed / controlled / governed by another culture group, but still as seperate culture groups. Not as an integrated whole with equal rights, opportunities and shared identity. "Us" governs and polices "them". By force. This is a condition. A state of being.

There is no free, democratic nation that can exist in permanent occupation, regardless of how noble or relatable or emotionally powerful the motivation.

There is no motivation that justifies permanent occupation. None. It's tyranny. It must end or maintain the injustice by force. Those are the only two options.

Having a noble motivation doesn't excuse stepping on the neck of a neighbour.*


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
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> surada said:
> 
> 
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> 
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> Roudy said:
> 
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> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
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> Sixties Fan said:
> 
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> surada said:
> 
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave ..
> 
> Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.
> 
> The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc.
> 
> They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When posting anything, please give links to your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What? The Bible? Even Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from the Babylonian exile. You question the Bible about the wives of Moses and Abraham? Or the history of Sargon 2 about the four Arab tribes he settled in Samaria in 738 BC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do question your sources, which is not the Bible, but some interpretation of it by who knows who.
> 
> In Genesis 21:1, we learn that Abraham remarried three years after the death of Sarah. Once his son Isaac was married off, Abraham, at age 140, married Keturah, who bore him six children.
> 
> But who exactly was Keturah and why did Abraham marry her? What pushed him to have six more children so late in life?
> 
> Rashi tells us that Keturah was one and the same as Hagar, whom Abraham had married more than 50 years prior (when he was 85 years of age), and who bore his firstborn, Ishmael.1
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/4171660/jewish/Who-Was-Keturah-and-Why-Did-Abraham-Marry-Her.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hagar, or Keturah, was Egyptian, not Arab.
> 
> Abraham never was in Arabia, neither was Ishamel who also married an Egyptian,  as some Muslim Arab folklore attempts to spread to its Muslim followers, or anyone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you actually believe Abraham was 140 years old.. Life expectancy was not long in the ME.. 75-80 was extreme old age.. Most men married before they were 20 and most girls before  they were 16.
> 
> Jews have their folklore too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our folklore is our folklore.  We respect other people's folklore and expect them to respect ours, instead of stealing most or all of it, and then telling us that what is our stories or history, really never was as it is written and understood by Jews for the past 3800 years.
> 
> But you are not here to respect anything about Jewish history and the Jewish people's rights to be sovereign over any part of their land.  That is extremely clear from your never ending deflections  to anything which is posed to you.
> 
> Whether you are Christian or Muslim, the lack of respect by both religions towards Judaism began at the foundation of either ideology, be it 2000 years ago, or 1300 years ago.  Both were formed at the total disrespect, delegitimization  and endless disregard for the truth, and each got started by the idea that either was superior to Judaism and therefore Jews should have followed either one, "Or Else".
> 
> You spill one debunkable idea after another, and never really answer points I or others have made.  And never will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews, Muslims and Christians lived side by side for more than a thousand years.  . and the Arab Jews prospered.. You are are too keen to shift blame for the Holocaust on the Arabs, to justify what European Zionist have done.
> 
> Why do you think most Jews did not live in Palestine by the time of Christ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually all Jews did live in Judeah during Jesus' Time.  The diaspora began after that.  Another completely ignorant comment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope the diaspora began 500 years earlier.. Check your facts. Start with Elephantine Island in Egypt ad then go to Persia and Damascus, Alexandria and Aleppo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Diaspora started with the Babylonians taking the leaders of the Jews from Judea to Babylon and keeping them from returning.
> 
> Any other Jews who lived anywhere else outside of Judea, Israel, had migrated to those areas before and after that invasion,  keeping their religion wherever they went at any other time.
> 
> The Messianic idea started with the Babylonian invasion and the taking of the leaders to Babylon.  It was the beginning of the Diaspora.
> 
> All of the above is about a Jewish leader freeing the land of Israel/Judea from any invading people and restoring sovereignty over the land, and the Jewish people again being a free people and owner of their land and their own destiny.
> 
> As it is today.
> 
> According to this article this is when it began:
> 
> The Jewish diaspora began with the Assyrian captivity and continued on a much larger scale with the Babylonian captivity. Jews were also widespread throughout the Roman Empire, and this carried on to a lesser extent in the period of Byzantine rule in the central and eastern Mediterranean.
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> Jewish history - Wikipedia
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> Jewish diaspora - Wikipedia
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> Click to expand...
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> This is what happens when you get your info from IslamoNazi sources.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Zionism - The desire of a dispersed, scattered cultural group to return to an ancestral homeland after 2000 years of expulsion This is a motive. It's a desire. An objective.
> 
> Indigenous - Any and all culture groups that previously resided an area that is now under occupation and settlement by another culture group that has replaced, not integrated, culture / language etc. This is an adjective to describe a people or culture group.
> 
> Occupation - a condition whereby a culture group is being policed / controlled / governed by another culture group, but still as seperate culture groups. Not as an integrated whole with equal rights, opportunities and shared identity. "Us" governs and polices "them". By force. This is a condition. A state of being.
> 
> There is no free, democratic nation that can exist in permanent occupation, regardless of how noble or relatable or emotionally powerful the motivation.
> 
> There is no motivation that justifies permanent occupation. None. It's tyranny. It must end or maintain the injustice by force. Those are the only two options.
> 
> Having a noble motivation doesn't excuse stepping on the neck of a neighbour.*
Click to expand...


*[Zionism - The desire of a dispersed, scattered cultural group to return* to an ancestral homeland *after 2000 years of expulsion This is a motive. It's a desire. An objective.]*

It is actually about the Jews returning to THEIR ancestral home, and not Anyone *else's.
Canaan, Israel, Judea, Palestinia (word given by the Romans, and then the British to the Mandate after WWI) is the ancient homeland of the Jewish people, who were always present on it during any and all invasions and conquests.

It is a fulfillment of way over 2000 years, actually since the Babylonian invasion and conquest, to free the land and be sovereign over it again.

-------------------------
[ Indigenous - Any and all culture groups that previously resided an area that is now under occupation and settlement by another culture group that has replaced, not integrated, culture / language etc. This is an adjective to describe a people or culture group.]

Here is the actual definition of the word Indigenous:

The word 'indigenous' refers to the notion of a place-based human ethnic culture that has not migrated from its homeland, and is not a settler or colonial population. To be indigenous is therefore by definition different from being of a world culture, such as the Western or Euro-American culture.
-------

Which is exactly what the Jewish people are to the land of Canaan, Israel, Judea as verified by all conquering groups from the Assyrians, to the Greeks, Romans, Byzantine, Muslims, Crusaders, Ottomans and British conquerors all the way to the 20th century.
The Muslim writings themselves acknowledge that the land they conquered in the 7th century was inhabited by its indigenous people, the Jews.

The Palestinians are Arabs.  Arabs are Indigenous of the Arabian Peninsula, where Islam comes from,  and started to migrate to the conquered  Kurdish Muslim  lands in the Middle East, and then to North Africa, and then to South Spain and other areas conquered by the Muslim Moors and Ottomans from the 7th century on.

--------------------------

[ Occupation - a condition whereby a culture group is being policed / controlled / governed by another culture group, but still as seperate culture groups. Not as an integrated whole with equal rights, opportunities and shared identity. "Us" governs and polices "them". By force. This is a condition. A state of being.]


Neither Gaza, nor the PA are "Governed" by Israel.  Hamas governs Gaza, and the PA governs areas A and B of Judea and Samaria.

Opportunities and shared rights are being kept from most Palestinians by their Palestinian Leaders in Gaza and Ramalah.*

20% of Arab Israelis , Christians and Muslims, have the same opportunity of education and work in Israel as Jews do.  Jews, Christians and Muslims work together in Hospitals, Schools, and many other fields. 

Israel is NOT responsible for what the Hamas and PA leaders offer or do to the people who live in their areas.

Israel actually allows thousands of Palestinians from areas A and B to come work and study in Israel and those who work for Jews in area C or Israel, are paid much better than they are paid in the PA area.
------------------------

*[There is no free, democratic nation that can exist in permanent occupation, regardless of how noble or relatable or emotionally powerful the motivation.

There is no motivation that justifies permanent occupation. None. It's tyranny. It must end or maintain the injustice by force. Those are the only two options.

Having a noble motivation doesn't excuse stepping on the neck of a neighbour.]


Well said.  From the Greeks, to the Romans to the Byzantine, to the Muslims, to the Crusaders, to the Ottoman Muslims to the British, the Land Of Israel was occupied by all of the above and the Jews experienced tyranny from each and everyone of them, being attacked endlessly, their possessions stolen, their women raped, their children kidnapped or killed, all groups of Jews massacred for the smallest reasons.

For 800 years of Ottoman Turkish conquest of the area, the Muslim Arabs never revolted against the Ottoman empire.  Because they were Muslims.

For 19 years, 1948 to 1967,  the Muslim Arabs did not revolt against the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan

The Mandate for Palestine was to be called the Mandate for Israel, but the Christian British government could not let go of its anti Jewish feelings and gave 78% of the land to the Muslim Hashemites who had just been kicked out of their homeland in Arabia.  WHY?  

After that, the British did everything to deny the Jews the right to re-create their Nation on their ancient Homeland.  They actually wanted the other 22% for themselves. They cut Jewish immigration, were not there to protect the Jews, be it in that Mandate or the Mandate for Iraq (Fahrud 1941).


In other words one cannot OCCUPY one's OWN land.

The Hashemites do not live on their indigenous, natural land.  Should they return the 78% of the Mandate for Palestine to its rightful owners, the Jews?   The Jews they ethnically cleaned in 1925 and have not allowed to return?

Israel is not demanding it of Jordan, never did.

Are you aware that no Jew is allowed to own or reside in Jordan?



Thank you Surada for copying EVERY single lie and conspiracy theory you could find in every conspiracy theory site, book or people you listened to about Jews and Israelis.


Maybe the Power in Gaza can give the Jews their land back, taken by the Arabs from the fact that the Jews were ethnically cleaned from there in 1920.  Or the Arabs in Hebron can give the Jews their homes back after they were ethnically cleaned from there by the massacre in 1929.  And then All of Judea and Samaria by the Hashemites, helped by the British,  in 1948.  And from the whole Jewish Quarter also in 1948.


ODD how the only Mandate which did not follow and did not fulfill the plans of the Allies post WWI was the one meant to re create the Jewish Nation ON their own Jewish homeland.

Do you not find it ODD that Lebanon, Syria and Iraq fulfilled the Allied plans, because the governments were Muslims?  Regardless of the fact that none of those 3 mandates gave any rights to its indigenous people, be it the Assyrians, the Kurds or any other people who were there before the Muslim invasions into those lands?*


When are any of those people, including the Copts in Egypt and the Berbes from Morocco  going to be allowed to govern their own land, conquered by the Muslims which saw Arabs from Arabia migrate and take over the land, and out populate, of so many indigenous people?


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


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> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave ..
> 
> Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.
> 
> The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc.
> 
> They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When posting anything, please give links to your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What? The Bible? Even Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from the Babylonian exile. You question the Bible about the wives of Moses and Abraham? Or the history of Sargon 2 about the four Arab tribes he settled in Samaria in 738 BC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do question your sources, which is not the Bible, but some interpretation of it by who knows who.
> 
> In Genesis 21:1, we learn that Abraham remarried three years after the death of Sarah. Once his son Isaac was married off, Abraham, at age 140, married Keturah, who bore him six children.
> 
> But who exactly was Keturah and why did Abraham marry her? What pushed him to have six more children so late in life?
> 
> Rashi tells us that Keturah was one and the same as Hagar, whom Abraham had married more than 50 years prior (when he was 85 years of age), and who bore his firstborn, Ishmael.1
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/4171660/jewish/Who-Was-Keturah-and-Why-Did-Abraham-Marry-Her.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hagar, or Keturah, was Egyptian, not Arab.
> 
> Abraham never was in Arabia, neither was Ishamel who also married an Egyptian,  as some Muslim Arab folklore attempts to spread to its Muslim followers, or anyone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you actually believe Abraham was 140 years old.. Life expectancy was not long in the ME.. 75-80 was extreme old age.. Most men married before they were 20 and most girls before  they were 16.
> 
> Jews have their folklore too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our folklore is our folklore.  We respect other people's folklore and expect them to respect ours, instead of stealing most or all of it, and then telling us that what is our stories or history, really never was as it is written and understood by Jews for the past 3800 years.
> 
> But you are not here to respect anything about Jewish history and the Jewish people's rights to be sovereign over any part of their land.  That is extremely clear from your never ending deflections  to anything which is posed to you.
> 
> Whether you are Christian or Muslim, the lack of respect by both religions towards Judaism began at the foundation of either ideology, be it 2000 years ago, or 1300 years ago.  Both were formed at the total disrespect, delegitimization  and endless disregard for the truth, and each got started by the idea that either was superior to Judaism and therefore Jews should have followed either one, "Or Else".
> 
> You spill one debunkable idea after another, and never really answer points I or others have made.  And never will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews, Muslims and Christians lived side by side for more than a thousand years.  . and the Arab Jews prospered.. You are are too keen to shift blame for the Holocaust on the Arabs, to justify what European Zionist have done.
> 
> Why do you think most Jews did not live in Palestine by the time of Christ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually all Jews did live in Judeah during Jesus' Time.  The diaspora began after that.  Another completely ignorant comment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope the diaspora began 500 years earlier.. Check your facts. Start with Elephantine Island in Egypt ad then go to Persia and Damascus, Alexandria and Aleppo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Diaspora started with the Babylonians taking the leaders of the Jews from Judea to Babylon and keeping them from returning.
> 
> Any other Jews who lived anywhere else outside of Judea, Israel, had migrated to those areas before and after that invasion,  keeping their religion wherever they went at any other time.
> 
> The Messianic idea started with the Babylonian invasion and the taking of the leaders to Babylon.  It was the beginning of the Diaspora.
> 
> All of the above is about a Jewish leader freeing the land of Israel/Judea from any invading people and restoring sovereignty over the land, and the Jewish people again being a free people and owner of their land and their own destiny.
> 
> As it is today.
> 
> According to this article this is when it began:
> 
> The Jewish diaspora began with the Assyrian captivity and continued on a much larger scale with the Babylonian captivity. Jews were also widespread throughout the Roman Empire, and this carried on to a lesser extent in the period of Byzantine rule in the central and eastern Mediterranean.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish history - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish diaspora - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is what happens when you get your info from IslamoNazi sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Zionism - The desire of a dispersed, scattered cultural group to return to an ancestral homeland after 2000 years of expulsion This is a motive. It's a desire. An objective.
> 
> Indigenous - Any and all culture groups that previously resided an area that is now under occupation and settlement by another culture group that has replaced, not integrated, culture / language etc. This is an adjective to describe a people or culture group.
> 
> Occupation - a condition whereby a culture group is being policed / controlled / governed by another culture group, but still as seperate culture groups. Not as an integrated whole with equal rights, opportunities and shared identity. "Us" governs and polices "them". By force. This is a condition. A state of being.
> 
> There is no free, democratic nation that can exist in permanent occupation, regardless of how noble or relatable or emotionally powerful the motivation.
> 
> There is no motivation that justifies permanent occupation. None. It's tyranny. It must end or maintain the injustice by force. Those are the only two options.
> 
> Having a noble motivation doesn't excuse stepping on the neck of a neighbour.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *[Zionism - The desire of a dispersed, scattered cultural group to return* to an ancestral homeland *after 2000 years of expulsion This is a motive. It's a desire. An objective.]*
> 
> It is actually about the Jews returning to THEIR ancestral home, and not Anyone *else's.
> Canaan, Israel, Judea, Palestinia (word given by the Romans, and then the British to the Mandate after WWI) is the ancient homeland of the Jewish people, who were always present on it during any and all invasions and conquests.
> 
> It is a fulfillment of way over 2000 years, actually since the Babylonian invasion and conquest, to free the land and be sovereign over it again.
> 
> -------------------------
> [ Indigenous - Any and all culture groups that previously resided an area that is now under occupation and settlement by another culture group that has replaced, not integrated, culture / language etc. This is an adjective to describe a people or culture group.]
> 
> Here is the actual definition of the word Indigenous:
> 
> The word 'indigenous' refers to the notion of a place-based human ethnic culture that has not migrated from its homeland, and is not a settler or colonial population. To be indigenous is therefore by definition different from being of a world culture, such as the Western or Euro-American culture.
> -------
> 
> Which is exactly what the Jewish people are to the land of Canaan, Israel, Judea as verified by all conquering groups from the Assyrians, to the Greeks, Romans, Byzantine, Muslims, Crusaders, Ottomans and British conquerors all the way to the 20th century.
> The Muslim writings themselves acknowledge that the land they conquered in the 7th century was inhabited by its indigenous people, the Jews.
> 
> The Palestinians are Arabs.  Arabs are Indigenous of the Arabian Peninsula, where Islam comes from,  and started to migrate to the conquered  Kurdish Muslim  lands in the Middle East, and then to North Africa, and then to South Spain and other areas conquered by the Muslim Moors and Ottomans from the 7th century on.
> 
> --------------------------
> 
> [ Occupation - a condition whereby a culture group is being policed / controlled / governed by another culture group, but still as seperate culture groups. Not as an integrated whole with equal rights, opportunities and shared identity. "Us" governs and polices "them". By force. This is a condition. A state of being.]
> 
> 
> Neither Gaza, nor the PA are "Governed" by Israel.  Hamas governs Gaza, and the PA governs areas A and B of Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Opportunities and shared rights are being kept from most Palestinians by their Palestinian Leaders in Gaza and Ramalah.*
> 
> 20% of Arab Israelis , Christians and Muslims, have the same opportunity of education and work in Israel as Jews do.  Jews, Christians and Muslims work together in Hospitals, Schools, and many other fields.
> 
> Israel is NOT responsible for what the Hamas and PA leaders offer or do to the people who live in their areas.
> 
> Israel actually allows thousands of Palestinians from areas A and B to come work and study in Israel and those who work for Jews in area C or Israel, are paid much better than they are paid in the PA area.
> ------------------------
> 
> *[There is no free, democratic nation that can exist in permanent occupation, regardless of how noble or relatable or emotionally powerful the motivation.
> 
> There is no motivation that justifies permanent occupation. None. It's tyranny. It must end or maintain the injustice by force. Those are the only two options.
> 
> Having a noble motivation doesn't excuse stepping on the neck of a neighbour.]
> 
> 
> Well said.  From the Greeks, to the Romans to the Byzantine, to the Muslims, to the Crusaders, to the Ottoman Muslims to the British, the Land Of Israel was occupied by all of the above and the Jews experienced tyranny from each and everyone of them, being attacked endlessly, their possessions stolen, their women raped, their children kidnapped or killed, all groups of Jews massacred for the smallest reasons.
> 
> For 800 years of Ottoman Turkish conquest of the area, the Muslim Arabs never revolted against the Ottoman empire.  Because they were Muslims.
> 
> For 19 years, 1948 to 1967,  the Muslim Arabs did not revolt against the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan
> 
> The Mandate for Palestine was to be called the Mandate for Israel, but the Christian British government could not let go of its anti Jewish feelings and gave 78% of the land to the Muslim Hashemites who had just been kicked out of their homeland in Arabia.  WHY?
> 
> After that, the British did everything to deny the Jews the right to re-create their Nation on their ancient Homeland.  They actually wanted the other 22% for themselves. They cut Jewish immigration, were not there to protect the Jews, be it in that Mandate or the Mandate for Iraq (Fahrud 1941).
> 
> 
> In other words one cannot OCCUPY one's OWN land.
> 
> The Hashemites do not live on their indigenous, natural land.  Should they return the 78% of the Mandate for Palestine to its rightful owners, the Jews?   The Jews they ethnically cleaned in 1925 and have not allowed to return?
> 
> Israel is not demanding it of Jordan, never did.
> 
> Are you aware that no Jew is allowed to own or reside in Jordan?
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you Surada for copying EVERY single lie and conspiracy theory you could find in every conspiracy theory site, book or people you listened to about Jews and Israelis.
> 
> 
> Maybe the Power in Gaza can give the Jews their land back, taken by the Arabs from the fact that the Jews were ethnically cleaned from there in 1920.  Or the Arabs in Hebron can give the Jews their homes back after they were ethnically cleaned from there by the massacre in 1929.  And then All of Judea and Samaria by the Hashemites, helped by the British,  in 1948.  And from the whole Jewish Quarter also in 1948.
> 
> 
> ODD how the only Mandate which did not follow and did not fulfill the plans of the Allies post WWI was the one meant to re create the Jewish Nation ON their own Jewish homeland.
> 
> Do you not find it ODD that Lebanon, Syria and Iraq fulfilled the Allied plans, because the governments were Muslims?  Regardless of the fact that none of those 3 mandates gave any rights to its indigenous people, be it the Assyrians, the Kurds or any other people who were there before the Muslim invasions into those lands?*
> 
> 
> When are any of those people, including the Copts in Egypt and the Berbes from Morocco  going to be allowed to govern their own land, conquered by the Muslims which saw Arabs from Arabia migrate and take over the land, and out populate, of so many indigenous people?
Click to expand...


Arabs began migrating out of Arabia 10,000 BC... long before Islam.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


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> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave ..
> 
> Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.
> 
> The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc.
> 
> They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When posting anything, please give links to your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What? The Bible? Even Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from the Babylonian exile. You question the Bible about the wives of Moses and Abraham? Or the history of Sargon 2 about the four Arab tribes he settled in Samaria in 738 BC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do question your sources, which is not the Bible, but some interpretation of it by who knows who.
> 
> In Genesis 21:1, we learn that Abraham remarried three years after the death of Sarah. Once his son Isaac was married off, Abraham, at age 140, married Keturah, who bore him six children.
> 
> But who exactly was Keturah and why did Abraham marry her? What pushed him to have six more children so late in life?
> 
> Rashi tells us that Keturah was one and the same as Hagar, whom Abraham had married more than 50 years prior (when he was 85 years of age), and who bore his firstborn, Ishmael.1
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/4171660/jewish/Who-Was-Keturah-and-Why-Did-Abraham-Marry-Her.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hagar, or Keturah, was Egyptian, not Arab.
> 
> Abraham never was in Arabia, neither was Ishamel who also married an Egyptian,  as some Muslim Arab folklore attempts to spread to its Muslim followers, or anyone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you actually believe Abraham was 140 years old.. Life expectancy was not long in the ME.. 75-80 was extreme old age.. Most men married before they were 20 and most girls before  they were 16.
> 
> Jews have their folklore too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our folklore is our folklore.  We respect other people's folklore and expect them to respect ours, instead of stealing most or all of it, and then telling us that what is our stories or history, really never was as it is written and understood by Jews for the past 3800 years.
> 
> But you are not here to respect anything about Jewish history and the Jewish people's rights to be sovereign over any part of their land.  That is extremely clear from your never ending deflections  to anything which is posed to you.
> 
> Whether you are Christian or Muslim, the lack of respect by both religions towards Judaism began at the foundation of either ideology, be it 2000 years ago, or 1300 years ago.  Both were formed at the total disrespect, delegitimization  and endless disregard for the truth, and each got started by the idea that either was superior to Judaism and therefore Jews should have followed either one, "Or Else".
> 
> You spill one debunkable idea after another, and never really answer points I or others have made.  And never will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews, Muslims and Christians lived side by side for more than a thousand years.  . and the Arab Jews prospered.. You are are too keen to shift blame for the Holocaust on the Arabs, to justify what European Zionist have done.
> 
> Why do you think most Jews did not live in Palestine by the time of Christ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually all Jews did live in Judeah during Jesus' Time.  The diaspora began after that.  Another completely ignorant comment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope the diaspora began 500 years earlier.. Check your facts. Start with Elephantine Island in Egypt ad then go to Persia and Damascus, Alexandria and Aleppo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Diaspora started with the Babylonians taking the leaders of the Jews from Judea to Babylon and keeping them from returning.
> 
> Any other Jews who lived anywhere else outside of Judea, Israel, had migrated to those areas before and after that invasion,  keeping their religion wherever they went at any other time.
> 
> The Messianic idea started with the Babylonian invasion and the taking of the leaders to Babylon.  It was the beginning of the Diaspora.
> 
> All of the above is about a Jewish leader freeing the land of Israel/Judea from any invading people and restoring sovereignty over the land, and the Jewish people again being a free people and owner of their land and their own destiny.
> 
> As it is today.
> 
> According to this article this is when it began:
> 
> The Jewish diaspora began with the Assyrian captivity and continued on a much larger scale with the Babylonian captivity. Jews were also widespread throughout the Roman Empire, and this carried on to a lesser extent in the period of Byzantine rule in the central and eastern Mediterranean.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish history - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish diaspora - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is what happens when you get your info from IslamoNazi sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Zionism - The desire of a dispersed, scattered cultural group to return to an ancestral homeland after 2000 years of expulsion This is a motive. It's a desire. An objective.
> 
> Indigenous - Any and all culture groups that previously resided an area that is now under occupation and settlement by another culture group that has replaced, not integrated, culture / language etc. This is an adjective to describe a people or culture group.
> 
> Occupation - a condition whereby a culture group is being policed / controlled / governed by another culture group, but still as seperate culture groups. Not as an integrated whole with equal rights, opportunities and shared identity. "Us" governs and polices "them". By force. This is a condition. A state of being.
> 
> There is no free, democratic nation that can exist in permanent occupation, regardless of how noble or relatable or emotionally powerful the motivation.
> 
> There is no motivation that justifies permanent occupation. None. It's tyranny. It must end or maintain the injustice by force. Those are the only two options.
> 
> Having a noble motivation doesn't excuse stepping on the neck of a neighbour.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *[Zionism - The desire of a dispersed, scattered cultural group to return* to an ancestral homeland *after 2000 years of expulsion This is a motive. It's a desire. An objective.]*
> 
> It is actually about the Jews returning to THEIR ancestral home, and not Anyone *else's.
> Canaan, Israel, Judea, Palestinia (word given by the Romans, and then the British to the Mandate after WWI) is the ancient homeland of the Jewish people, who were always present on it during any and all invasions and conquests.
> 
> It is a fulfillment of way over 2000 years, actually since the Babylonian invasion and conquest, to free the land and be sovereign over it again.
> 
> -------------------------
> [ Indigenous - Any and all culture groups that previously resided an area that is now under occupation and settlement by another culture group that has replaced, not integrated, culture / language etc. This is an adjective to describe a people or culture group.]
> 
> Here is the actual definition of the word Indigenous:
> 
> The word 'indigenous' refers to the notion of a place-based human ethnic culture that has not migrated from its homeland, and is not a settler or colonial population. To be indigenous is therefore by definition different from being of a world culture, such as the Western or Euro-American culture.
> -------
> 
> Which is exactly what the Jewish people are to the land of Canaan, Israel, Judea as verified by all conquering groups from the Assyrians, to the Greeks, Romans, Byzantine, Muslims, Crusaders, Ottomans and British conquerors all the way to the 20th century.
> The Muslim writings themselves acknowledge that the land they conquered in the 7th century was inhabited by its indigenous people, the Jews.
> 
> The Palestinians are Arabs.  Arabs are Indigenous of the Arabian Peninsula, where Islam comes from,  and started to migrate to the conquered  Kurdish Muslim  lands in the Middle East, and then to North Africa, and then to South Spain and other areas conquered by the Muslim Moors and Ottomans from the 7th century on.
> 
> --------------------------
> 
> [ Occupation - a condition whereby a culture group is being policed / controlled / governed by another culture group, but still as seperate culture groups. Not as an integrated whole with equal rights, opportunities and shared identity. "Us" governs and polices "them". By force. This is a condition. A state of being.]
> 
> 
> Neither Gaza, nor the PA are "Governed" by Israel.  Hamas governs Gaza, and the PA governs areas A and B of Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Opportunities and shared rights are being kept from most Palestinians by their Palestinian Leaders in Gaza and Ramalah.*
> 
> 20% of Arab Israelis , Christians and Muslims, have the same opportunity of education and work in Israel as Jews do.  Jews, Christians and Muslims work together in Hospitals, Schools, and many other fields.
> 
> Israel is NOT responsible for what the Hamas and PA leaders offer or do to the people who live in their areas.
> 
> Israel actually allows thousands of Palestinians from areas A and B to come work and study in Israel and those who work for Jews in area C or Israel, are paid much better than they are paid in the PA area.
> ------------------------
> 
> *[There is no free, democratic nation that can exist in permanent occupation, regardless of how noble or relatable or emotionally powerful the motivation.
> 
> There is no motivation that justifies permanent occupation. None. It's tyranny. It must end or maintain the injustice by force. Those are the only two options.
> 
> Having a noble motivation doesn't excuse stepping on the neck of a neighbour.]
> 
> 
> Well said.  From the Greeks, to the Romans to the Byzantine, to the Muslims, to the Crusaders, to the Ottoman Muslims to the British, the Land Of Israel was occupied by all of the above and the Jews experienced tyranny from each and everyone of them, being attacked endlessly, their possessions stolen, their women raped, their children kidnapped or killed, all groups of Jews massacred for the smallest reasons.
> 
> For 800 years of Ottoman Turkish conquest of the area, the Muslim Arabs never revolted against the Ottoman empire.  Because they were Muslims.
> 
> For 19 years, 1948 to 1967,  the Muslim Arabs did not revolt against the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan
> 
> The Mandate for Palestine was to be called the Mandate for Israel, but the Christian British government could not let go of its anti Jewish feelings and gave 78% of the land to the Muslim Hashemites who had just been kicked out of their homeland in Arabia.  WHY?
> 
> After that, the British did everything to deny the Jews the right to re-create their Nation on their ancient Homeland.  They actually wanted the other 22% for themselves. They cut Jewish immigration, were not there to protect the Jews, be it in that Mandate or the Mandate for Iraq (Fahrud 1941).
> 
> 
> In other words one cannot OCCUPY one's OWN land.
> 
> The Hashemites do not live on their indigenous, natural land.  Should they return the 78% of the Mandate for Palestine to its rightful owners, the Jews?   The Jews they ethnically cleaned in 1925 and have not allowed to return?
> 
> Israel is not demanding it of Jordan, never did.
> 
> Are you aware that no Jew is allowed to own or reside in Jordan?
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you Surada for copying EVERY single lie and conspiracy theory you could find in every conspiracy theory site, book or people you listened to about Jews and Israelis.
> 
> 
> Maybe the Power in Gaza can give the Jews their land back, taken by the Arabs from the fact that the Jews were ethnically cleaned from there in 1920.  Or the Arabs in Hebron can give the Jews their homes back after they were ethnically cleaned from there by the massacre in 1929.  And then All of Judea and Samaria by the Hashemites, helped by the British,  in 1948.  And from the whole Jewish Quarter also in 1948.
> 
> 
> ODD how the only Mandate which did not follow and did not fulfill the plans of the Allies post WWI was the one meant to re create the Jewish Nation ON their own Jewish homeland.
> 
> Do you not find it ODD that Lebanon, Syria and Iraq fulfilled the Allied plans, because the governments were Muslims?  Regardless of the fact that none of those 3 mandates gave any rights to its indigenous people, be it the Assyrians, the Kurds or any other people who were there before the Muslim invasions into those lands?*
> 
> 
> When are any of those people, including the Copts in Egypt and the Berbes from Morocco  going to be allowed to govern their own land, conquered by the Muslims which saw Arabs from Arabia migrate and take over the land, and out populate, of so many indigenous people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs began migrating out of Arabia 10,000 BC.
Click to expand...

But the Arabs did not conquer or populate any other area outside of the Arabian Peninsula the way they started to do so after 7th century CE.

They did not become the indigenous people of any other area in the world outside the Arabian Peninsula exactly because they are Indigenous to the Arabian Peninsula.

You keep trying to give the impression that because any people moved out of their indigenous lands into another land, that the land they moved to also becomes their indigenous land.  It does NOT.  Never did. Never will.

Europeans, post 1492 are not indigenous or native  to the Americas, Australia and any other New World lands they "discovered".

It is the same with the Arabs, the Turks, The Crusaders, the Greeks, Romans, Byzantine, etc, etc.

Moving to any other land where one did not originate from, does not make the new land one's indigenous land.

Jews moved all over the world, the same way as all other people did.  Jews are not indigenous, native to any other land but the Land of Israel, ancient Canaan.


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


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> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave ..
> 
> Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.
> 
> The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc.
> 
> They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When posting anything, please give links to your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What? The Bible? Even Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from the Babylonian exile. You question the Bible about the wives of Moses and Abraham? Or the history of Sargon 2 about the four Arab tribes he settled in Samaria in 738 BC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do question your sources, which is not the Bible, but some interpretation of it by who knows who.
> 
> In Genesis 21:1, we learn that Abraham remarried three years after the death of Sarah. Once his son Isaac was married off, Abraham, at age 140, married Keturah, who bore him six children.
> 
> But who exactly was Keturah and why did Abraham marry her? What pushed him to have six more children so late in life?
> 
> Rashi tells us that Keturah was one and the same as Hagar, whom Abraham had married more than 50 years prior (when he was 85 years of age), and who bore his firstborn, Ishmael.1
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/4171660/jewish/Who-Was-Keturah-and-Why-Did-Abraham-Marry-Her.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hagar, or Keturah, was Egyptian, not Arab.
> 
> Abraham never was in Arabia, neither was Ishamel who also married an Egyptian,  as some Muslim Arab folklore attempts to spread to its Muslim followers, or anyone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you actually believe Abraham was 140 years old.. Life expectancy was not long in the ME.. 75-80 was extreme old age.. Most men married before they were 20 and most girls before  they were 16.
> 
> Jews have their folklore too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our folklore is our folklore.  We respect other people's folklore and expect them to respect ours, instead of stealing most or all of it, and then telling us that what is our stories or history, really never was as it is written and understood by Jews for the past 3800 years.
> 
> But you are not here to respect anything about Jewish history and the Jewish people's rights to be sovereign over any part of their land.  That is extremely clear from your never ending deflections  to anything which is posed to you.
> 
> Whether you are Christian or Muslim, the lack of respect by both religions towards Judaism began at the foundation of either ideology, be it 2000 years ago, or 1300 years ago.  Both were formed at the total disrespect, delegitimization  and endless disregard for the truth, and each got started by the idea that either was superior to Judaism and therefore Jews should have followed either one, "Or Else".
> 
> You spill one debunkable idea after another, and never really answer points I or others have made.  And never will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews, Muslims and Christians lived side by side for more than a thousand years.  . and the Arab Jews prospered.. You are are too keen to shift blame for the Holocaust on the Arabs, to justify what European Zionist have done.
> 
> Why do you think most Jews did not live in Palestine by the time of Christ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually all Jews did live in Judeah during Jesus' Time.  The diaspora began after that.  Another completely ignorant comment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope the diaspora began 500 years earlier.. Check your facts. Start with Elephantine Island in Egypt ad then go to Persia and Damascus, Alexandria and Aleppo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Diaspora started with the Babylonians taking the leaders of the Jews from Judea to Babylon and keeping them from returning.
> 
> Any other Jews who lived anywhere else outside of Judea, Israel, had migrated to those areas before and after that invasion,  keeping their religion wherever they went at any other time.
> 
> The Messianic idea started with the Babylonian invasion and the taking of the leaders to Babylon.  It was the beginning of the Diaspora.
> 
> All of the above is about a Jewish leader freeing the land of Israel/Judea from any invading people and restoring sovereignty over the land, and the Jewish people again being a free people and owner of their land and their own destiny.
> 
> As it is today.
> 
> According to this article this is when it began:
> 
> The Jewish diaspora began with the Assyrian captivity and continued on a much larger scale with the Babylonian captivity. Jews were also widespread throughout the Roman Empire, and this carried on to a lesser extent in the period of Byzantine rule in the central and eastern Mediterranean.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish history - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish diaspora - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is what happens when you get your info from IslamoNazi sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Zionism - The desire of a dispersed, scattered cultural group to return to an ancestral homeland after 2000 years of expulsion This is a motive. It's a desire. An objective.
> 
> Indigenous - Any and all culture groups that previously resided an area that is now under occupation and settlement by another culture group that has replaced, not integrated, culture / language etc. This is an adjective to describe a people or culture group.
> 
> Occupation - a condition whereby a culture group is being policed / controlled / governed by another culture group, but still as seperate culture groups. Not as an integrated whole with equal rights, opportunities and shared identity. "Us" governs and polices "them". By force. This is a condition. A state of being.
> 
> There is no free, democratic nation that can exist in permanent occupation, regardless of how noble or relatable or emotionally powerful the motivation.
> 
> There is no motivation that justifies permanent occupation. None. It's tyranny. It must end or maintain the injustice by force. Those are the only two options.
> 
> Having a noble motivation doesn't excuse stepping on the neck of a neighbour.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *[Zionism - The desire of a dispersed, scattered cultural group to return* to an ancestral homeland *after 2000 years of expulsion This is a motive. It's a desire. An objective.]*
> 
> It is actually about the Jews returning to THEIR ancestral home, and not Anyone *else's.
> Canaan, Israel, Judea, Palestinia (word given by the Romans, and then the British to the Mandate after WWI) is the ancient homeland of the Jewish people, who were always present on it during any and all invasions and conquests.
> 
> It is a fulfillment of way over 2000 years, actually since the Babylonian invasion and conquest, to free the land and be sovereign over it again.
> 
> -------------------------
> [ Indigenous - Any and all culture groups that previously resided an area that is now under occupation and settlement by another culture group that has replaced, not integrated, culture / language etc. This is an adjective to describe a people or culture group.]
> 
> Here is the actual definition of the word Indigenous:
> 
> The word 'indigenous' refers to the notion of a place-based human ethnic culture that has not migrated from its homeland, and is not a settler or colonial population. To be indigenous is therefore by definition different from being of a world culture, such as the Western or Euro-American culture.
> -------
> 
> Which is exactly what the Jewish people are to the land of Canaan, Israel, Judea as verified by all conquering groups from the Assyrians, to the Greeks, Romans, Byzantine, Muslims, Crusaders, Ottomans and British conquerors all the way to the 20th century.
> The Muslim writings themselves acknowledge that the land they conquered in the 7th century was inhabited by its indigenous people, the Jews.
> 
> The Palestinians are Arabs.  Arabs are Indigenous of the Arabian Peninsula, where Islam comes from,  and started to migrate to the conquered  Kurdish Muslim  lands in the Middle East, and then to North Africa, and then to South Spain and other areas conquered by the Muslim Moors and Ottomans from the 7th century on.
> 
> --------------------------
> 
> [ Occupation - a condition whereby a culture group is being policed / controlled / governed by another culture group, but still as seperate culture groups. Not as an integrated whole with equal rights, opportunities and shared identity. "Us" governs and polices "them". By force. This is a condition. A state of being.]
> 
> 
> Neither Gaza, nor the PA are "Governed" by Israel.  Hamas governs Gaza, and the PA governs areas A and B of Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Opportunities and shared rights are being kept from most Palestinians by their Palestinian Leaders in Gaza and Ramalah.*
> 
> 20% of Arab Israelis , Christians and Muslims, have the same opportunity of education and work in Israel as Jews do.  Jews, Christians and Muslims work together in Hospitals, Schools, and many other fields.
> 
> Israel is NOT responsible for what the Hamas and PA leaders offer or do to the people who live in their areas.
> 
> Israel actually allows thousands of Palestinians from areas A and B to come work and study in Israel and those who work for Jews in area C or Israel, are paid much better than they are paid in the PA area.
> ------------------------
> 
> *[There is no free, democratic nation that can exist in permanent occupation, regardless of how noble or relatable or emotionally powerful the motivation.
> 
> There is no motivation that justifies permanent occupation. None. It's tyranny. It must end or maintain the injustice by force. Those are the only two options.
> 
> Having a noble motivation doesn't excuse stepping on the neck of a neighbour.]
> 
> 
> Well said.  From the Greeks, to the Romans to the Byzantine, to the Muslims, to the Crusaders, to the Ottoman Muslims to the British, the Land Of Israel was occupied by all of the above and the Jews experienced tyranny from each and everyone of them, being attacked endlessly, their possessions stolen, their women raped, their children kidnapped or killed, all groups of Jews massacred for the smallest reasons.
> 
> For 800 years of Ottoman Turkish conquest of the area, the Muslim Arabs never revolted against the Ottoman empire.  Because they were Muslims.
> 
> For 19 years, 1948 to 1967,  the Muslim Arabs did not revolt against the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan
> 
> The Mandate for Palestine was to be called the Mandate for Israel, but the Christian British government could not let go of its anti Jewish feelings and gave 78% of the land to the Muslim Hashemites who had just been kicked out of their homeland in Arabia.  WHY?
> 
> After that, the British did everything to deny the Jews the right to re-create their Nation on their ancient Homeland.  They actually wanted the other 22% for themselves. They cut Jewish immigration, were not there to protect the Jews, be it in that Mandate or the Mandate for Iraq (Fahrud 1941).
> 
> 
> In other words one cannot OCCUPY one's OWN land.
> 
> The Hashemites do not live on their indigenous, natural land.  Should they return the 78% of the Mandate for Palestine to its rightful owners, the Jews?   The Jews they ethnically cleaned in 1925 and have not allowed to return?
> 
> Israel is not demanding it of Jordan, never did.
> 
> Are you aware that no Jew is allowed to own or reside in Jordan?
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you Surada for copying EVERY single lie and conspiracy theory you could find in every conspiracy theory site, book or people you listened to about Jews and Israelis.
> 
> 
> Maybe the Power in Gaza can give the Jews their land back, taken by the Arabs from the fact that the Jews were ethnically cleaned from there in 1920.  Or the Arabs in Hebron can give the Jews their homes back after they were ethnically cleaned from there by the massacre in 1929.  And then All of Judea and Samaria by the Hashemites, helped by the British,  in 1948.  And from the whole Jewish Quarter also in 1948.
> 
> 
> ODD how the only Mandate which did not follow and did not fulfill the plans of the Allies post WWI was the one meant to re create the Jewish Nation ON their own Jewish homeland.
> 
> Do you not find it ODD that Lebanon, Syria and Iraq fulfilled the Allied plans, because the governments were Muslims?  Regardless of the fact that none of those 3 mandates gave any rights to its indigenous people, be it the Assyrians, the Kurds or any other people who were there before the Muslim invasions into those lands?*
> 
> 
> When are any of those people, including the Copts in Egypt and the Berbes from Morocco  going to be allowed to govern their own land, conquered by the Muslims which saw Arabs from Arabia migrate and take over the land, and out populate, of so many indigenous people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs began migrating out of Arabia 10,000 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But the Arabs did not conquer or populate any other area outside of the Arabian Peninsula the way they started to do so after 7th century CE.
> 
> They did not become the indigenous people of any other area in the world outside the Arabian Peninsula exactly because they are Indigenous to the Arabian Peninsula.
> 
> You keep trying to give the impression that because any people moved out of their indigenous lands into another land, that the land they moved to also becomes their indigenous land.  It does NOT.  Never did. Never will.
> 
> Europeans, post 1492 are not indigenous or native  to the Americas, Australia and any other New World lands they "discovered".
> 
> It is the same with the Arabs, the Turks, The Crusaders, the Greeks, Romans, Byzantine, etc, etc.
> 
> Moving to any other land where one did not originate from, does not make the new land one's indigenous land.
> 
> Jews moved all over the world, the same way as all other people did.  Jews are not indigenous, native to any other land but the Land of Israel, ancient Canaan.
Click to expand...


The Arabs had extensive trade with Egypt, Palestine and the Levant.. Mesopotamia, East Africa and the Indus Valley long before  Islam..

They supplied Frankensence and Myrrh from Yemen to Herod and the Pharoahs for funeral rites. They not only had extensive commerce, but intermarriage as well. The Hebrews were a small tribe that emerged from  the North Coast Canaanites. They shared the Canaannite Pantheon of EL, Baal and Ashterorah. Abraham was form Urfa near Haran .. See Ugarite tablets at Ras Shamra 1000 years before Judaism.

There is MUCH more to the history of the Middle East than Jewish history.


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## surada

Sixties Fan 
Roudy 

The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan). 

The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


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> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave ..
> 
> Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.
> 
> The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc.
> 
> They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When posting anything, please give links to your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What? The Bible? Even Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from the Babylonian exile. You question the Bible about the wives of Moses and Abraham? Or the history of Sargon 2 about the four Arab tribes he settled in Samaria in 738 BC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do question your sources, which is not the Bible, but some interpretation of it by who knows who.
> 
> In Genesis 21:1, we learn that Abraham remarried three years after the death of Sarah. Once his son Isaac was married off, Abraham, at age 140, married Keturah, who bore him six children.
> 
> But who exactly was Keturah and why did Abraham marry her? What pushed him to have six more children so late in life?
> 
> Rashi tells us that Keturah was one and the same as Hagar, whom Abraham had married more than 50 years prior (when he was 85 years of age), and who bore his firstborn, Ishmael.1
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/4171660/jewish/Who-Was-Keturah-and-Why-Did-Abraham-Marry-Her.htm
> 
> 
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> Hagar, or Keturah, was Egyptian, not Arab.
> 
> Abraham never was in Arabia, neither was Ishamel who also married an Egyptian,  as some Muslim Arab folklore attempts to spread to its Muslim followers, or anyone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> Do you actually believe Abraham was 140 years old.. Life expectancy was not long in the ME.. 75-80 was extreme old age.. Most men married before they were 20 and most girls before  they were 16.
> 
> Jews have their folklore too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our folklore is our folklore.  We respect other people's folklore and expect them to respect ours, instead of stealing most or all of it, and then telling us that what is our stories or history, really never was as it is written and understood by Jews for the past 3800 years.
> 
> But you are not here to respect anything about Jewish history and the Jewish people's rights to be sovereign over any part of their land.  That is extremely clear from your never ending deflections  to anything which is posed to you.
> 
> Whether you are Christian or Muslim, the lack of respect by both religions towards Judaism began at the foundation of either ideology, be it 2000 years ago, or 1300 years ago.  Both were formed at the total disrespect, delegitimization  and endless disregard for the truth, and each got started by the idea that either was superior to Judaism and therefore Jews should have followed either one, "Or Else".
> 
> You spill one debunkable idea after another, and never really answer points I or others have made.  And never will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews, Muslims and Christians lived side by side for more than a thousand years.  . and the Arab Jews prospered.. You are are too keen to shift blame for the Holocaust on the Arabs, to justify what European Zionist have done.
> 
> Why do you think most Jews did not live in Palestine by the time of Christ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually all Jews did live in Judeah during Jesus' Time.  The diaspora began after that.  Another completely ignorant comment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope the diaspora began 500 years earlier.. Check your facts. Start with Elephantine Island in Egypt ad then go to Persia and Damascus, Alexandria and Aleppo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Diaspora started with the Babylonians taking the leaders of the Jews from Judea to Babylon and keeping them from returning.
> 
> Any other Jews who lived anywhere else outside of Judea, Israel, had migrated to those areas before and after that invasion,  keeping their religion wherever they went at any other time.
> 
> The Messianic idea started with the Babylonian invasion and the taking of the leaders to Babylon.  It was the beginning of the Diaspora.
> 
> All of the above is about a Jewish leader freeing the land of Israel/Judea from any invading people and restoring sovereignty over the land, and the Jewish people again being a free people and owner of their land and their own destiny.
> 
> As it is today.
> 
> According to this article this is when it began:
> 
> The Jewish diaspora began with the Assyrian captivity and continued on a much larger scale with the Babylonian captivity. Jews were also widespread throughout the Roman Empire, and this carried on to a lesser extent in the period of Byzantine rule in the central and eastern Mediterranean.
> 
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> Jewish history - Wikipedia
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> Jewish diaspora - Wikipedia
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> en.wikipedia.org
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> Click to expand...
> 
> This is what happens when you get your info from IslamoNazi sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Zionism - The desire of a dispersed, scattered cultural group to return to an ancestral homeland after 2000 years of expulsion This is a motive. It's a desire. An objective.
> 
> Indigenous - Any and all culture groups that previously resided an area that is now under occupation and settlement by another culture group that has replaced, not integrated, culture / language etc. This is an adjective to describe a people or culture group.
> 
> Occupation - a condition whereby a culture group is being policed / controlled / governed by another culture group, but still as seperate culture groups. Not as an integrated whole with equal rights, opportunities and shared identity. "Us" governs and polices "them". By force. This is a condition. A state of being.
> 
> There is no free, democratic nation that can exist in permanent occupation, regardless of how noble or relatable or emotionally powerful the motivation.
> 
> There is no motivation that justifies permanent occupation. None. It's tyranny. It must end or maintain the injustice by force. Those are the only two options.
> 
> Having a noble motivation doesn't excuse stepping on the neck of a neighbour.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *[Zionism - The desire of a dispersed, scattered cultural group to return* to an ancestral homeland *after 2000 years of expulsion This is a motive. It's a desire. An objective.]*
> 
> It is actually about the Jews returning to THEIR ancestral home, and not Anyone *else's.
> Canaan, Israel, Judea, Palestinia (word given by the Romans, and then the British to the Mandate after WWI) is the ancient homeland of the Jewish people, who were always present on it during any and all invasions and conquests.
> 
> It is a fulfillment of way over 2000 years, actually since the Babylonian invasion and conquest, to free the land and be sovereign over it again.
> 
> -------------------------
> [ Indigenous - Any and all culture groups that previously resided an area that is now under occupation and settlement by another culture group that has replaced, not integrated, culture / language etc. This is an adjective to describe a people or culture group.]
> 
> Here is the actual definition of the word Indigenous:
> 
> The word 'indigenous' refers to the notion of a place-based human ethnic culture that has not migrated from its homeland, and is not a settler or colonial population. To be indigenous is therefore by definition different from being of a world culture, such as the Western or Euro-American culture.
> -------
> 
> Which is exactly what the Jewish people are to the land of Canaan, Israel, Judea as verified by all conquering groups from the Assyrians, to the Greeks, Romans, Byzantine, Muslims, Crusaders, Ottomans and British conquerors all the way to the 20th century.
> The Muslim writings themselves acknowledge that the land they conquered in the 7th century was inhabited by its indigenous people, the Jews.
> 
> The Palestinians are Arabs.  Arabs are Indigenous of the Arabian Peninsula, where Islam comes from,  and started to migrate to the conquered  Kurdish Muslim  lands in the Middle East, and then to North Africa, and then to South Spain and other areas conquered by the Muslim Moors and Ottomans from the 7th century on.
> 
> --------------------------
> 
> [ Occupation - a condition whereby a culture group is being policed / controlled / governed by another culture group, but still as seperate culture groups. Not as an integrated whole with equal rights, opportunities and shared identity. "Us" governs and polices "them". By force. This is a condition. A state of being.]
> 
> 
> Neither Gaza, nor the PA are "Governed" by Israel.  Hamas governs Gaza, and the PA governs areas A and B of Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Opportunities and shared rights are being kept from most Palestinians by their Palestinian Leaders in Gaza and Ramalah.*
> 
> 20% of Arab Israelis , Christians and Muslims, have the same opportunity of education and work in Israel as Jews do.  Jews, Christians and Muslims work together in Hospitals, Schools, and many other fields.
> 
> Israel is NOT responsible for what the Hamas and PA leaders offer or do to the people who live in their areas.
> 
> Israel actually allows thousands of Palestinians from areas A and B to come work and study in Israel and those who work for Jews in area C or Israel, are paid much better than they are paid in the PA area.
> ------------------------
> 
> *[There is no free, democratic nation that can exist in permanent occupation, regardless of how noble or relatable or emotionally powerful the motivation.
> 
> There is no motivation that justifies permanent occupation. None. It's tyranny. It must end or maintain the injustice by force. Those are the only two options.
> 
> Having a noble motivation doesn't excuse stepping on the neck of a neighbour.]
> 
> 
> Well said.  From the Greeks, to the Romans to the Byzantine, to the Muslims, to the Crusaders, to the Ottoman Muslims to the British, the Land Of Israel was occupied by all of the above and the Jews experienced tyranny from each and everyone of them, being attacked endlessly, their possessions stolen, their women raped, their children kidnapped or killed, all groups of Jews massacred for the smallest reasons.
> 
> For 800 years of Ottoman Turkish conquest of the area, the Muslim Arabs never revolted against the Ottoman empire.  Because they were Muslims.
> 
> For 19 years, 1948 to 1967,  the Muslim Arabs did not revolt against the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan
> 
> The Mandate for Palestine was to be called the Mandate for Israel, but the Christian British government could not let go of its anti Jewish feelings and gave 78% of the land to the Muslim Hashemites who had just been kicked out of their homeland in Arabia.  WHY?
> 
> After that, the British did everything to deny the Jews the right to re-create their Nation on their ancient Homeland.  They actually wanted the other 22% for themselves. They cut Jewish immigration, were not there to protect the Jews, be it in that Mandate or the Mandate for Iraq (Fahrud 1941).
> 
> 
> In other words one cannot OCCUPY one's OWN land.
> 
> The Hashemites do not live on their indigenous, natural land.  Should they return the 78% of the Mandate for Palestine to its rightful owners, the Jews?   The Jews they ethnically cleaned in 1925 and have not allowed to return?
> 
> Israel is not demanding it of Jordan, never did.
> 
> Are you aware that no Jew is allowed to own or reside in Jordan?
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you Surada for copying EVERY single lie and conspiracy theory you could find in every conspiracy theory site, book or people you listened to about Jews and Israelis.
> 
> 
> Maybe the Power in Gaza can give the Jews their land back, taken by the Arabs from the fact that the Jews were ethnically cleaned from there in 1920.  Or the Arabs in Hebron can give the Jews their homes back after they were ethnically cleaned from there by the massacre in 1929.  And then All of Judea and Samaria by the Hashemites, helped by the British,  in 1948.  And from the whole Jewish Quarter also in 1948.
> 
> 
> ODD how the only Mandate which did not follow and did not fulfill the plans of the Allies post WWI was the one meant to re create the Jewish Nation ON their own Jewish homeland.
> 
> Do you not find it ODD that Lebanon, Syria and Iraq fulfilled the Allied plans, because the governments were Muslims?  Regardless of the fact that none of those 3 mandates gave any rights to its indigenous people, be it the Assyrians, the Kurds or any other people who were there before the Muslim invasions into those lands?*
> 
> 
> When are any of those people, including the Copts in Egypt and the Berbes from Morocco  going to be allowed to govern their own land, conquered by the Muslims which saw Arabs from Arabia migrate and take over the land, and out populate, of so many indigenous people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs began migrating out of Arabia 10,000 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But the Arabs did not conquer or populate any other area outside of the Arabian Peninsula the way they started to do so after 7th century CE.
> 
> They did not become the indigenous people of any other area in the world outside the Arabian Peninsula exactly because they are Indigenous to the Arabian Peninsula.
> 
> You keep trying to give the impression that because any people moved out of their indigenous lands into another land, that the land they moved to also becomes their indigenous land.  It does NOT.  Never did. Never will.
> 
> Europeans, post 1492 are not indigenous or native  to the Americas, Australia and any other New World lands they "discovered".
> 
> It is the same with the Arabs, the Turks, The Crusaders, the Greeks, Romans, Byzantine, etc, etc.
> 
> Moving to any other land where one did not originate from, does not make the new land one's indigenous land.
> 
> Jews moved all over the world, the same way as all other people did.  Jews are not indigenous, native to any other land but the Land of Israel, ancient Canaan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Arabs had extensive trade with Egypt, Palestine and the Levant.. Mesopotamia, East Africa and the Indus Valley long before  Islam..
> 
> They supplied Frankensence and Myrrh from Yemen to Herod and the Pharoahs for funeral rites. They not only had extensive commerce, but intermarriage as well. The Hebrews were a small tribe that emerged from  the North Coast Canaanites. They shared the Canaannite Pantheon of EL, Baal and Ashterorah. Abraham was form Urfa near Haran .. See Ugarite tablets at Ras Shamra 1000 years before Judaism.
> 
> There is MUCH more to the history of the Middle East than Jewish history.
Click to expand...

All people had trade with Egypt, Canaan, etc.  What is your point?

It still does not make the Arabs indigenous to the Land of Ancient Canaan, Israel, Judea, Palestine.

Abraham moved to Canaan about 4000 years ago, and his people mingled with the indigenous people of that area.  His descendants are the descendants of his people with the indigenous people of that area, therefore making them part of the indigenous people of the area.
It is all in Genesis.  Nothing new.  You are not discovering anything new about Abraham and the creation of Judaism in Canaan. 

The Hebrews were a small tribe which in time grew in size century after century.  It had Monarchies and conquered other people around the Land of Israel.

Even Islam knows that history.  But it is only when the Jews managed to become sovereign over their ancient homeland, that the lies about Jews being European, and all the other things you have posted, started to be said about Jews and Israel.

You may tell some truths and semi truths and non truths about Jews and Israel, it will not change the fact, a fact known by Christian and Muslim history...........that the Jews have always lived on their homeland regardless of who the conquerors were, and they were always mistreated, attacked, murdered or expelled at some point of history or another.

And the other fact of history is.....that Muslims and Christians cannot allow Jews to be sovereign of their own destinies.  They must always be under the sovereignty of a Christian or Muslims government.

And I will say it again.  Islam cannot allow ANY non Muslim to reconquer Muslim once conquered land.



[This is what some Muslims continue to dream about:]


Radical Muslims in Spain have launched a social media campaign aimed at generating support for the jihadist group Islamic State [IS].

The campaign involves posters that include images of famous Spanish landmarks and monuments emblazoned with Arabic slogans such as, "We are all the Islamic State" and "Long Live the Islamic State."

One poster includes an image of the medieval Islamic Aljafería Palace in the Spanish city of Zaragoza and the black flag associated with the IS. Another uses an image of the famous La Concha beach in the Basque city of San Sebastián. Yet another includes an image of the statue of Jesus Christ on Monte Urgull in San Sebastián, with the Arabic words "Al-Andalus Country" instead of "Basque Country."



Al-Andalus is the Arabic name given to those parts of Spain, Portugal and France that were occupied by Muslim conquerors (also known as the Moors) from 711 to 1492. As the Basque Country is surrounded by mountains, however, the Moors never succeeded in occupying it.

The poster campaign comes after IS jihadists produced a video in which they vow to liberate al-Andalus from non-Muslims and make it part of their new Islamic Caliphate.

The video shows a jihadist speaking in Spanish with a heavy North African accent. He says:



> "I say to the entire world as a warning: We are living under the Islamic flag, the Islamic caliphate. We will die for it until we liberate those occupied lands, from Jakarta to Andalusia. And I declare: Spain is the land of our forefathers and we are going to take it back with the power of Allah."







__





						Islamic State: "We Will Take Spain Back"
					

Calls to reconquer al-Andalus are becoming more frequent and more strident. "Clearly Spain forms part of the strategic objectives of global jihad. We are not the only ones but we are in their sights." — Spanish Interior Minister Jorge Fernández Díaz.




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html


And there were no Arabs.


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> And there were no Arabs.
Click to expand...


Sure there were,  Joseph's brothers sold him to Arab traders. Both Abraham and Moses had Arab wives. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria about 700 BC and Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from Babylon.


----------



## surada




----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> And there were no Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure there were,  Joseph's brothers sold him to Arab traders. Both Abraham and Moses had Arab wives. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria about 700 BC and Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from Babylon.
Click to expand...

Understand this much.
Passing traders are not indigenous to the land.

Even the Philistines, Greeks, who mixed with whoever was living in Gaza, were not indigenous to the land.

We are talking about who is indigenous to the land of Canaan, and Arabs are still indigenous to the Arabian Peninsula, no matter how long they have been traveling, trading or even a few tribes living in Canaan.


You are, again, turning all the people in the Bible you can think of into Arabs.  Ishamael was not the son of an Arab, but an Egyptian.  And neither Abraham nor Ishamel was ever in Arabia, as Muslim legend would like to tell, and built the Akba.  Muslim folklore loves to "borrow" people from the Hebrew Scriptures and make them their own.

Hagar, Keturah, were Egyptians.

The Medianite were not Arabs:

According to the Book of Genesis, the Midianites were descended from Midian, who was the son of the Hebrew patriarch Abraham by the latter’s second wife, Keturah. Jethro, priest-leader of the Midianite subtribe known as the Kenites, and his daughter Zipporah, a wife of Moses, influenced early Hebrew thought: it was Yahweh, the lord of the Midianites, who was revealed to Moses as the God of the Hebrews.


The Midianites traditionally have been identified as Ishmaelites, in part because of an unclear passage in Genesis (37:28) that refers to the traders to whom Joseph was sold by his brothers as both Midianites and Ishmaelites. In addition, the story of Gideon in Judges contains a verse (8:24) that includes an apparent interpolation identifying the Midianites as Ishmaelites.


> Midianite | Definition & Facts
> 
> 
> Midianite,  in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament), member of a group of nomadic tribes related to the Israelites and most likely living east of the Gulf of Aqaba in the northwestern regions of the Arabian Desert. They engaged in pastoral pursuits, caravan trading, and banditry, and their main...
> 
> 
> 
> www.britannica.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


>


So what?  How does it make Arabs, especially the now named Palestinians, indigenous to the land of Canaan, and the Jews invaders, occupiers of their land?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> And there were no Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure there were,  Joseph's brothers sold him to Arab traders. Both Abraham and Moses had Arab wives. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria about 700 BC and Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from Babylon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Understand this much.
> Passing traders are not indigenous to the land.
> 
> Even the Philistines, Greeks, who mixed with whoever was living in Gaza, were not indigenous to the land.
> 
> We are talking about who is indigenous to the land of Canaan, and Arabs are still indigenous to the Arabian Peninsula, no matter how long they have been traveling, trading or even a few tribes living in Canaan.
> 
> 
> You are, again, turning all the people in the Bible you can think of into Arabs.  Ishamael was not the son of an Arab, but an Egyptian.  And neither Abraham nor Ishamel was ever in Arabia, as Muslim legend would like to tell, and built the Akba.  Muslim folklore loves to "borrow" people from the Hebrew Scriptures and make them their own.
> 
> Hagar, Keturah, were Egyptians.
> 
> The Medianite were not Arabs:
> 
> According to the Book of Genesis, the Midianites were descended from Midian, who was the son of the Hebrew patriarch Abraham by the latter’s second wife, Keturah. Jethro, priest-leader of the Midianite subtribe known as the Kenites, and his daughter Zipporah, a wife of Moses, influenced early Hebrew thought: it was Yahweh, the lord of the Midianites, who was revealed to Moses as the God of the Hebrews.
> 
> 
> The Midianites traditionally have been identified as Ishmaelites, in part because of an unclear passage in Genesis (37:28) that refers to the traders to whom Joseph was sold by his brothers as both Midianites and Ishmaelites. In addition, the story of Gideon in Judges contains a verse (8:24) that includes an apparent interpolation identifying the Midianites as Ishmaelites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midianite | Definition & Facts
> 
> 
> Midianite,  in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament), member of a group of nomadic tribes related to the Israelites and most likely living east of the Gulf of Aqaba in the northwestern regions of the Arabian Desert. They engaged in pastoral pursuits, caravan trading, and banditry, and their main...
> 
> 
> 
> www.britannica.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Keturah and Zipporah were Arabs.. so was Jethro.

Arabia was once a savannah with shallow lakes and streams..When the land rapidly became more arid about 10,000 BC or a bit earlier the Arabs began migrating to Mesopotamia, Palestine and the Levant.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> And there were no Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure there were,  Joseph's brothers sold him to Arab traders. Both Abraham and Moses had Arab wives. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria about 700 BC and Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from Babylon.
Click to expand...

And please do give a link where it says that Ezra met Arabs on the return to rebuild Jerusalem. I want a link to it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> And there were no Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure there were,  Joseph's brothers sold him to Arab traders. Both Abraham and Moses had Arab wives. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria about 700 BC and Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from Babylon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Understand this much.
> Passing traders are not indigenous to the land.
> 
> Even the Philistines, Greeks, who mixed with whoever was living in Gaza, were not indigenous to the land.
> 
> We are talking about who is indigenous to the land of Canaan, and Arabs are still indigenous to the Arabian Peninsula, no matter how long they have been traveling, trading or even a few tribes living in Canaan.
> 
> 
> You are, again, turning all the people in the Bible you can think of into Arabs.  Ishamael was not the son of an Arab, but an Egyptian.  And neither Abraham nor Ishamel was ever in Arabia, as Muslim legend would like to tell, and built the Akba.  Muslim folklore loves to "borrow" people from the Hebrew Scriptures and make them their own.
> 
> Hagar, Keturah, were Egyptians.
> 
> The Medianite were not Arabs:
> 
> According to the Book of Genesis, the Midianites were descended from Midian, who was the son of the Hebrew patriarch Abraham by the latter’s second wife, Keturah. Jethro, priest-leader of the Midianite subtribe known as the Kenites, and his daughter Zipporah, a wife of Moses, influenced early Hebrew thought: it was Yahweh, the lord of the Midianites, who was revealed to Moses as the God of the Hebrews.
> 
> 
> The Midianites traditionally have been identified as Ishmaelites, in part because of an unclear passage in Genesis (37:28) that refers to the traders to whom Joseph was sold by his brothers as both Midianites and Ishmaelites. In addition, the story of Gideon in Judges contains a verse (8:24) that includes an apparent interpolation identifying the Midianites as Ishmaelites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midianite | Definition & Facts
> 
> 
> Midianite,  in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament), member of a group of nomadic tribes related to the Israelites and most likely living east of the Gulf of Aqaba in the northwestern regions of the Arabian Desert. They engaged in pastoral pursuits, caravan trading, and banditry, and their main...
> 
> 
> 
> www.britannica.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keturah and Zipporah were Arabs.. so was Jethro.
> 
> Arabia was once a savannah with shallow lakes and streams..When the land rapidly became more arid about 10,000 BC or a bit earlier the Arabs began migrating to Mesopotamia, Palestine and the Levant.
Click to expand...

LInk.  Or stop copying and pasting from Conspiracy theory sites.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what?  How does it make Arabs, especially the now named Palestinians, indigenous to the land of Canaan, and the Jews invaders, occupiers of their land?
Click to expand...


90% of Palestinians are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers according to Ben Gurion, Slomo Sands and Israel Finklestein.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what?  How does it make Arabs, especially the now named Palestinians, indigenous to the land of Canaan, and the Jews invaders, occupiers of their land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 90% of Palestinians are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers according to Ben Gurion, Slomo Sands and Israel Finklestein.
Click to expand...

BS.  Show me the link.

You continue to be non existent about links to any and all  allegations you continue to copy and paste from conspiracy theory sites.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> And there were no Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure there were,  Joseph's brothers sold him to Arab traders. Both Abraham and Moses had Arab wives. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria about 700 BC and Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from Babylon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And please do give a link where it says that Ezra met Arabs on the return to rebuild Jerusalem. I want a link to it.
Click to expand...


Read the Book of Ezra.

The Jewish ban on intermarriage has become a curse ...


			https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/the-jewish-ban-on...
		

Jan 01, 2016 · Ezra the Scribe is the person who banned intermarriage between the Jews who had returned from Babylon to the Land of Israel and the other nations already living here. He not only declared this prohibition but also forcibly broke up many mixed marriages that he discovered when he returned to Jerusalem from Persia.


GESHEM
ge'-shem (geshem, gashmu; Gesam, "rain storm"): An Arabian, probably chief of an Arabian tribe that had either settled in Southern Palestine during the exile in Babylon, or had been settled in or near Samaria by Sargon (Nehemiah 2:19; Nehemiah 6:1, 2, 6). He was a confederate of Sanballat and Tobiah, and strenuously opposed the building of the wall under Nehemiah. He with the others mocked at the first efforts to build the wall, and afterward repeatedly sought to entice Nehemiah to the plains of Ono. The name also occurs in the form Gashmu, perhaps an Assyrian form of the same name Geshem.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what?  How does it make Arabs, especially the now named Palestinians, indigenous to the land of Canaan, and the Jews invaders, occupiers of their land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 90% of Palestinians are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers according to Ben Gurion, Slomo Sands and Israel Finklestein.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BS.  Show me the link.
> 
> You continue to be non existent about links to any and all  allegations you continue to copy and paste from conspiracy theory sites.
Click to expand...


NONE are connspiracy sites.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> And there were no Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure there were,  Joseph's brothers sold him to Arab traders. Both Abraham and Moses had Arab wives. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria about 700 BC and Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from Babylon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And please do give a link where it says that Ezra met Arabs on the return to rebuild Jerusalem. I want a link to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the Book of Ezra.
> 
> The Jewish ban on intermarriage has become a curse ...
> 
> 
> https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/the-jewish-ban-on...
> 
> 
> Jan 01, 2016 · Ezra the Scribe is the person who banned intermarriage between the Jews who had returned from Babylon to the Land of Israel and the other nations already living here. He not only declared this prohibition but also forcibly broke up many mixed marriages that he discovered when he returned to Jerusalem from Persia.
> 
> 
> GESHEM
> ge'-shem (geshem, gashmu; Gesam, "rain storm"): An Arabian, probably chief of an Arabian tribe that had either settled in Southern Palestine during the exile in Babylon, or had been settled in or near Samaria by Sargon (Nehemiah 2:19; Nehemiah 6:1, 2, 6). He was a confederate of Sanballat and Tobiah, and strenuously opposed the building of the wall under Nehemiah. He with the others mocked at the first efforts to build the wall, and afterward repeatedly sought to entice Nehemiah to the plains of Ono. The name also occurs in the form Gashmu, perhaps an Assyrian form of the same name Geshem.
Click to expand...

A couple of Arabian tribes living on the land, does not an indigenous people to the land make.

I will repeat again, the Arabs are indigenous of Arabia.  The fact that a few Arab tribes were living in Israel , Judea before the Muslim invasion, does not give them the indigenous Status you insist on giving them. 

*Geshem the Arabian* (or *Geshem the Arab*; Hebrew: *גֶשֶׁם הָעַרְבִי*) is the only Arab person mentioned in the Hebrew Bible.[1]He was an ally of Sanballat and Tobiah and adversary of Nehemiah (Neh. 2:19, 6:1). In Neh. 6:6 he is called "Gashmu," which is probably more correct, as an Arab tribe named "Gushamu" is known (Cook, "Aramaic Glossary," s.v. *גשמו*). When Nehemiah proceeded to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem, the Samaritans and the Arabs made efforts to hinder him. Geshem or Gashmu, who probably was the chief of the Arabs, joined the Samaritans and accused Nehemiah of conspiracy against the Persian king.





__





						Geshem the Arabian - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				





Then, like now, the Arabs seemed to be enemies of Israel.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what?  How does it make Arabs, especially the now named Palestinians, indigenous to the land of Canaan, and the Jews invaders, occupiers of their land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 90% of Palestinians are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers according to Ben Gurion, Slomo Sands and Israel Finklestein.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BS.  Show me the link.
> 
> You continue to be non existent about links to any and all  allegations you continue to copy and paste from conspiracy theory sites.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NONE are connspiracy sites.
Click to expand...

And again, you have given no link to your sources.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> And there were no Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure there were,  Joseph's brothers sold him to Arab traders. Both Abraham and Moses had Arab wives. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria about 700 BC and Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from Babylon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And please do give a link where it says that Ezra met Arabs on the return to rebuild Jerusalem. I want a link to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the Book of Ezra.
> 
> The Jewish ban on intermarriage has become a curse ...
> 
> 
> https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/the-jewish-ban-on...
> 
> 
> Jan 01, 2016 · Ezra the Scribe is the person who banned intermarriage between the Jews who had returned from Babylon to the Land of Israel and the other nations already living here. He not only declared this prohibition but also forcibly broke up many mixed marriages that he discovered when he returned to Jerusalem from Persia.
> 
> 
> GESHEM
> ge'-shem (geshem, gashmu; Gesam, "rain storm"): An Arabian, probably chief of an Arabian tribe that had either settled in Southern Palestine during the exile in Babylon, or had been settled in or near Samaria by Sargon (Nehemiah 2:19; Nehemiah 6:1, 2, 6). He was a confederate of Sanballat and Tobiah, and strenuously opposed the building of the wall under Nehemiah. He with the others mocked at the first efforts to build the wall, and afterward repeatedly sought to entice Nehemiah to the plains of Ono. The name also occurs in the form Gashmu, perhaps an Assyrian form of the same name Geshem.
Click to expand...

Haaretz is a newspaper which is against the existence of Israel.  Choose your sources more wisely.
And that portion you posted says nothing about Arabs in Jerusalem, which is what you were talking about.


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html


All of which have nothing to do with today's Arabs.  There is not a single land that Arabs don't currently occupy that wasn't conquered via invasions, looting, pillaging and raping.


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## Roudy

surada said:


> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave ..
> 
> Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.
> 
> The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc.
> 
> They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When posting anything, please give links to your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What? The Bible? Even Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from the Babylonian exile. You question the Bible about the wives of Moses and Abraham? Or the history of Sargon 2 about the four Arab tribes he settled in Samaria in 738 BC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do question your sources, which is not the Bible, but some interpretation of it by who knows who.
> 
> In Genesis 21:1, we learn that Abraham remarried three years after the death of Sarah. Once his son Isaac was married off, Abraham, at age 140, married Keturah, who bore him six children.
> 
> But who exactly was Keturah and why did Abraham marry her? What pushed him to have six more children so late in life?
> 
> Rashi tells us that Keturah was one and the same as Hagar, whom Abraham had married more than 50 years prior (when he was 85 years of age), and who bore his firstborn, Ishmael.1
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/4171660/jewish/Who-Was-Keturah-and-Why-Did-Abraham-Marry-Her.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hagar, or Keturah, was Egyptian, not Arab.
> 
> Abraham never was in Arabia, neither was Ishamel who also married an Egyptian,  as some Muslim Arab folklore attempts to spread to its Muslim followers, or anyone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you actually believe Abraham was 140 years old.. Life expectancy was not long in the ME.. 75-80 was extreme old age.. Most men married before they were 20 and most girls before  they were 16.
> 
> Jews have their folklore too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our folklore is our folklore.  We respect other people's folklore and expect them to respect ours, instead of stealing most or all of it, and then telling us that what is our stories or history, really never was as it is written and understood by Jews for the past 3800 years.
> 
> But you are not here to respect anything about Jewish history and the Jewish people's rights to be sovereign over any part of their land.  That is extremely clear from your never ending deflections  to anything which is posed to you.
> 
> Whether you are Christian or Muslim, the lack of respect by both religions towards Judaism began at the foundation of either ideology, be it 2000 years ago, or 1300 years ago.  Both were formed at the total disrespect, delegitimization  and endless disregard for the truth, and each got started by the idea that either was superior to Judaism and therefore Jews should have followed either one, "Or Else".
> 
> You spill one debunkable idea after another, and never really answer points I or others have made.  And never will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews, Muslims and Christians lived side by side for more than a thousand years.  . and the Arab Jews prospered.. You are are too keen to shift blame for the Holocaust on the Arabs, to justify what European Zionist have done.
> 
> Why do you think most Jews did not live in Palestine by the time of Christ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually all Jews did live in Judeah during Jesus' Time.  The diaspora began after that.  Another completely ignorant comment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope the diaspora began 500 years earlier.. Check your facts. Start with Elephantine Island in Egypt ad then go to Persia and Damascus, Alexandria and Aleppo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Diaspora started with the Babylonians taking the leaders of the Jews from Judea to Babylon and keeping them from returning.
> 
> Any other Jews who lived anywhere else outside of Judea, Israel, had migrated to those areas before and after that invasion,  keeping their religion wherever they went at any other time.
> 
> The Messianic idea started with the Babylonian invasion and the taking of the leaders to Babylon.  It was the beginning of the Diaspora.
> 
> All of the above is about a Jewish leader freeing the land of Israel/Judea from any invading people and restoring sovereignty over the land, and the Jewish people again being a free people and owner of their land and their own destiny.
> 
> As it is today.
> 
> According to this article this is when it began:
> 
> The Jewish diaspora began with the Assyrian captivity and continued on a much larger scale with the Babylonian captivity. Jews were also widespread throughout the Roman Empire, and this carried on to a lesser extent in the period of Byzantine rule in the central and eastern Mediterranean.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish history - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish diaspora - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is what happens when you get your info from IslamoNazi sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Zionism - The desire of a dispersed, scattered cultural group to return to an ancestral homeland after 2000 years of expulsion This is a motive. It's a desire. An objective.
> 
> Indigenous - Any and all culture groups that previously resided an area that is now under occupation and settlement by another culture group that has replaced, not integrated, culture / language etc. This is an adjective to describe a people or culture group.
> 
> Occupation - a condition whereby a culture group is being policed / controlled / governed by another culture group, but still as seperate culture groups. Not as an integrated whole with equal rights, opportunities and shared identity. "Us" governs and polices "them". By force. This is a condition. A state of being.
> 
> There is no free, democratic nation that can exist in permanent occupation, regardless of how noble or relatable or emotionally powerful the motivation.
> 
> There is no motivation that justifies permanent occupation. None. It's tyranny. It must end or maintain the injustice by force. Those are the only two options.
> 
> Having a noble motivation doesn't excuse stepping on the neck of a neighbour.*
Click to expand...

There is no occupation, and there has never been a Palestinian nation or people.


----------



## surada

Roudy said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> All of which have nothing to do with today's Arabs.  There is not a single land that Arabs don't currently occupy that wasn't conquered via invasions, looting, pillaging and raping.
Click to expand...


Or today's Jews either.










						Archaeologists Find 7,000-Year-Old Stone Monuments in Northern Arabia | Archaeology | Sci-News.com
					

An international team of archaeologists has found and studied 104 enigmatic stone structures called ‘mustatils’ in the southern part of the Nefud Desert in northern Arabia.




					www.sci-news.com


----------



## surada

Roudy said:


> surada said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave ..
> 
> Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.
> 
> The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc.
> 
> They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When posting anything, please give links to your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What? The Bible? Even Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from the Babylonian exile. You question the Bible about the wives of Moses and Abraham? Or the history of Sargon 2 about the four Arab tribes he settled in Samaria in 738 BC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do question your sources, which is not the Bible, but some interpretation of it by who knows who.
> 
> In Genesis 21:1, we learn that Abraham remarried three years after the death of Sarah. Once his son Isaac was married off, Abraham, at age 140, married Keturah, who bore him six children.
> 
> But who exactly was Keturah and why did Abraham marry her? What pushed him to have six more children so late in life?
> 
> Rashi tells us that Keturah was one and the same as Hagar, whom Abraham had married more than 50 years prior (when he was 85 years of age), and who bore his firstborn, Ishmael.1
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/4171660/jewish/Who-Was-Keturah-and-Why-Did-Abraham-Marry-Her.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hagar, or Keturah, was Egyptian, not Arab.
> 
> Abraham never was in Arabia, neither was Ishamel who also married an Egyptian,  as some Muslim Arab folklore attempts to spread to its Muslim followers, or anyone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you actually believe Abraham was 140 years old.. Life expectancy was not long in the ME.. 75-80 was extreme old age.. Most men married before they were 20 and most girls before  they were 16.
> 
> Jews have their folklore too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our folklore is our folklore.  We respect other people's folklore and expect them to respect ours, instead of stealing most or all of it, and then telling us that what is our stories or history, really never was as it is written and understood by Jews for the past 3800 years.
> 
> But you are not here to respect anything about Jewish history and the Jewish people's rights to be sovereign over any part of their land.  That is extremely clear from your never ending deflections  to anything which is posed to you.
> 
> Whether you are Christian or Muslim, the lack of respect by both religions towards Judaism began at the foundation of either ideology, be it 2000 years ago, or 1300 years ago.  Both were formed at the total disrespect, delegitimization  and endless disregard for the truth, and each got started by the idea that either was superior to Judaism and therefore Jews should have followed either one, "Or Else".
> 
> You spill one debunkable idea after another, and never really answer points I or others have made.  And never will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews, Muslims and Christians lived side by side for more than a thousand years.  . and the Arab Jews prospered.. You are are too keen to shift blame for the Holocaust on the Arabs, to justify what European Zionist have done.
> 
> Why do you think most Jews did not live in Palestine by the time of Christ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually all Jews did live in Judeah during Jesus' Time.  The diaspora began after that.  Another completely ignorant comment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope the diaspora began 500 years earlier.. Check your facts. Start with Elephantine Island in Egypt ad then go to Persia and Damascus, Alexandria and Aleppo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Diaspora started with the Babylonians taking the leaders of the Jews from Judea to Babylon and keeping them from returning.
> 
> Any other Jews who lived anywhere else outside of Judea, Israel, had migrated to those areas before and after that invasion,  keeping their religion wherever they went at any other time.
> 
> The Messianic idea started with the Babylonian invasion and the taking of the leaders to Babylon.  It was the beginning of the Diaspora.
> 
> All of the above is about a Jewish leader freeing the land of Israel/Judea from any invading people and restoring sovereignty over the land, and the Jewish people again being a free people and owner of their land and their own destiny.
> 
> As it is today.
> 
> According to this article this is when it began:
> 
> The Jewish diaspora began with the Assyrian captivity and continued on a much larger scale with the Babylonian captivity. Jews were also widespread throughout the Roman Empire, and this carried on to a lesser extent in the period of Byzantine rule in the central and eastern Mediterranean.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish history - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish diaspora - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is what happens when you get your info from IslamoNazi sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Zionism - The desire of a dispersed, scattered cultural group to return to an ancestral homeland after 2000 years of expulsion This is a motive. It's a desire. An objective.
> 
> Indigenous - Any and all culture groups that previously resided an area that is now under occupation and settlement by another culture group that has replaced, not integrated, culture / language etc. This is an adjective to describe a people or culture group.
> 
> Occupation - a condition whereby a culture group is being policed / controlled / governed by another culture group, but still as seperate culture groups. Not as an integrated whole with equal rights, opportunities and shared identity. "Us" governs and polices "them". By force. This is a condition. A state of being.
> 
> There is no free, democratic nation that can exist in permanent occupation, regardless of how noble or relatable or emotionally powerful the motivation.
> 
> There is no motivation that justifies permanent occupation. None. It's tyranny. It must end or maintain the injustice by force. Those are the only two options.
> 
> Having a noble motivation doesn't excuse stepping on the neck of a neighbour.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no occupation, and there has never been a Palestinian nation or people.
Click to expand...


There was no Germany or Italy until 1850 either.


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> All of which have nothing to do with today's Arabs.  There is not a single land that Arabs don't currently occupy that wasn't conquered via invasions, looting, pillaging and raping.
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> Or today's Jews either.
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> Archaeologists Find 7,000-Year-Old Stone Monuments in Northern Arabia | Archaeology | Sci-News.com
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> An international team of archaeologists has found and studied 104 enigmatic stone structures called ‘mustatils’ in the southern part of the Nefud Desert in northern Arabia.
> 
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> 
> 
> www.sci-news.com
Click to expand...

Jews have not invaded a single land.  It's the Arabs that started doing it when Mohammad appeared on the scene.  Today's Jews are in their ancestral, religious homeland.  Israel is not going anywhere.  Deal with it.  Palestinians are invaders and squatters from Egypt, Jordan and other Arab lands.


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## Roudy

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> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were never the sole inhabitants of Palestine. Arab tribes settled in Samaria in 700 BC.  Jordan was never Jewish and Gaza belonged to the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The philistines are an extinct people and they were Greek anyhow, not Arabs or Semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> They were living in the coastal region long before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites..
> 
> Bedouins have to have a relationship with settled communities to survive. Its symbiotic,.  The Hebrews moved into the hill country because they had lost that and they needed the townies who provided grain, textiles and tools to the bedu in exchange for meat, hides, salt etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Endless picking and choosing of parts of history in order to minimize the presence of the Israelites/Jews in the area.
> Whether they were conquered, or became the conquerors, they were there, and the Arabs who are calling themselves Palestinians today......were not.
> 
> The Israelites/Jews had a history with the Philistines, first as conquered, then as conquerors.  The Philistines (the word means Invaders) disappeared from the pages of history, the Israelites/Jews did not.
> 
> And the Jews continued to have a history with other peoples who came through the area and conquered it, be it the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Kurdish Muslims, or the Arab Muslims in the 7th Century.  But the Jews were always there, in Judea, Israel, Gaza, TransJordan.
> 
> That history cannot be changed to make others give the invading Arab Muslims a right they do not have over ALL the land considered to be the Jewish Homeland.
> The British gave the newly arrived Hashemite Arab tribe 78% of land they had no right to. It was part of the Mandate for Palestine, Israel,  part of the Jewish Homeland.  It is now Jordan.
> I will not repeat the information given above.
> The Mandate for Palestine, aka Israel, was sabotaged by the British and the Muslims, and the Jews ended up with a sliver of their homeland to build up their future state. Something which did not happen to the other three Mandates.  Why?  Because all the governments of Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were going to be Muslim.
> 
> Muslims cannot have any non Muslim be sovereign of any land once conquered by Muslims, which is why no Arabs ever complained when the Ottomans had control of the area for some 800 years, or the Hashemites took control of TransJordan in 1925, or later took control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> ------------------------
> 
> The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.
> 
> Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
> 
> The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> Arabs were in Palestine from the time of Abraham.. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah. .. long before Islam.  The Arabs didn't leave ..
> 
> Further, most Jews din't live in Palestine by the time of Christ.. They lived in Damascus, Aleppo, Alexandria, Persia, Elephantine Island, Rome and all around the Mediterrean.
> 
> The Jewish people do not have a unique claim to Palestine.. Most arrived after1880 from Europe, Russia, Poland etc.
> 
> They have no right to take land that belonged to the indigneous people for 2000 years and force them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When posting anything, please give links to your sources.
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> 
> What? The Bible? Even Ezra writes about Arabs in Jerusalem when they returned from the Babylonian exile. You question the Bible about the wives of Moses and Abraham? Or the history of Sargon 2 about the four Arab tribes he settled in Samaria in 738 BC?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> I do question your sources, which is not the Bible, but some interpretation of it by who knows who.
> 
> In Genesis 21:1, we learn that Abraham remarried three years after the death of Sarah. Once his son Isaac was married off, Abraham, at age 140, married Keturah, who bore him six children.
> 
> But who exactly was Keturah and why did Abraham marry her? What pushed him to have six more children so late in life?
> 
> Rashi tells us that Keturah was one and the same as Hagar, whom Abraham had married more than 50 years prior (when he was 85 years of age), and who bore his firstborn, Ishmael.1
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> https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/4171660/jewish/Who-Was-Keturah-and-Why-Did-Abraham-Marry-Her.htm
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> Hagar, or Keturah, was Egyptian, not Arab.
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> Abraham never was in Arabia, neither was Ishamel who also married an Egyptian,  as some Muslim Arab folklore attempts to spread to its Muslim followers, or anyone else.
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> Do you actually believe Abraham was 140 years old.. Life expectancy was not long in the ME.. 75-80 was extreme old age.. Most men married before they were 20 and most girls before  they were 16.
> 
> Jews have their folklore too.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Our folklore is our folklore.  We respect other people's folklore and expect them to respect ours, instead of stealing most or all of it, and then telling us that what is our stories or history, really never was as it is written and understood by Jews for the past 3800 years.
> 
> But you are not here to respect anything about Jewish history and the Jewish people's rights to be sovereign over any part of their land.  That is extremely clear from your never ending deflections  to anything which is posed to you.
> 
> Whether you are Christian or Muslim, the lack of respect by both religions towards Judaism began at the foundation of either ideology, be it 2000 years ago, or 1300 years ago.  Both were formed at the total disrespect, delegitimization  and endless disregard for the truth, and each got started by the idea that either was superior to Judaism and therefore Jews should have followed either one, "Or Else".
> 
> You spill one debunkable idea after another, and never really answer points I or others have made.  And never will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews, Muslims and Christians lived side by side for more than a thousand years.  . and the Arab Jews prospered.. You are are too keen to shift blame for the Holocaust on the Arabs, to justify what European Zionist have done.
> 
> Why do you think most Jews did not live in Palestine by the time of Christ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually all Jews did live in Judeah during Jesus' Time.  The diaspora began after that.  Another completely ignorant comment.
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> Nope the diaspora began 500 years earlier.. Check your facts. Start with Elephantine Island in Egypt ad then go to Persia and Damascus, Alexandria and Aleppo.
> 
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> 
> The Diaspora started with the Babylonians taking the leaders of the Jews from Judea to Babylon and keeping them from returning.
> 
> Any other Jews who lived anywhere else outside of Judea, Israel, had migrated to those areas before and after that invasion,  keeping their religion wherever they went at any other time.
> 
> The Messianic idea started with the Babylonian invasion and the taking of the leaders to Babylon.  It was the beginning of the Diaspora.
> 
> All of the above is about a Jewish leader freeing the land of Israel/Judea from any invading people and restoring sovereignty over the land, and the Jewish people again being a free people and owner of their land and their own destiny.
> 
> As it is today.
> 
> According to this article this is when it began:
> 
> The Jewish diaspora began with the Assyrian captivity and continued on a much larger scale with the Babylonian captivity. Jews were also widespread throughout the Roman Empire, and this carried on to a lesser extent in the period of Byzantine rule in the central and eastern Mediterranean.
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> This is what happens when you get your info from IslamoNazi sources.
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> *Zionism - The desire of a dispersed, scattered cultural group to return to an ancestral homeland after 2000 years of expulsion This is a motive. It's a desire. An objective.
> 
> Indigenous - Any and all culture groups that previously resided an area that is now under occupation and settlement by another culture group that has replaced, not integrated, culture / language etc. This is an adjective to describe a people or culture group.
> 
> Occupation - a condition whereby a culture group is being policed / controlled / governed by another culture group, but still as seperate culture groups. Not as an integrated whole with equal rights, opportunities and shared identity. "Us" governs and polices "them". By force. This is a condition. A state of being.
> 
> There is no free, democratic nation that can exist in permanent occupation, regardless of how noble or relatable or emotionally powerful the motivation.
> 
> There is no motivation that justifies permanent occupation. None. It's tyranny. It must end or maintain the injustice by force. Those are the only two options.
> 
> Having a noble motivation doesn't excuse stepping on the neck of a neighbour.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no occupation, and there has never been a Palestinian nation or people.
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> 
> 
> There was no Germany or Italy until 1850 either.
Click to expand...


The land the Jews are on is their ancestral and religious homeland. Palestine and Palestinian is a modern invention.


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## Sixties Fan

Chaim Herzog, the former Israeli representative at the UN and father of the just elected president of Israel, Isaac Herzog, sent this letter in 1976 to then UN-Secretary General Kurt Waldheim, to counter an Arab submission that denied any Jewish connection to Hebron.













						When Chaim Herzog submitted the Biblical story of Abraham's purchase in Hebron as an official document to the UNGA
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

[ They cannot build a Nation, or two, with the Billions coming their way.  But they can try to steal the land from its indigenous people by claiming to be "the indigenous people".  Arabia misses them so much
All those fights between tribes......oh, they are still happening.  Never mind. ]


The Palestinian Authority:​“[Israeli] plots are being woven against it [Jerusalem] to* forge its identity”*​“The stones in the ground are *fabricated graves* planted [by Israel] to prove… an ancient Israeli and Jewish presence”​“The greatest liar is [Israel]… *stealing our heritage”*​”[Jewish history is] *delusional myths* and the arrogance of power”​”They [Israel] imagine that by this *brute force* they can invent a [Jewish] history”​“Their so-called 'Temple' - the greatest crime and forgery in history"​This evening, the 9th of the Jewish month of Av, Jews commemorate the destruction of both Temples in Jerusalem, by Babylon in 586 BCE and by Rome in 70 CE.

The Palestinians, hoping to create a state on land in which they have no national or political ancient history, feel threatened by the more than 3000 years of Jewish history which is thoroughly documented. Thousands of archaeological finds, including coins, stamps, Hebrew inscriptions and more, many of which go back to the First Temple period, all are testimony to the thriving Jewish history in the land. Accordingly, denial of Jewish history in the land of Israel and especially in Jerusalem is a central component of PA national - political ideology. It is expressed regularly by PA leader Mahmoud Abbas himself as well as other senior PA officials.

Recently the PA produced a TV filler of Abbas again denying Israel’s history in Jerusalem saying Palestinans must *“confront the [Israeli] plots that are being woven against it to forge its identity and to change its character.”* While Abbas’ voice is heard, images of Jews visiting the Temple Mount are shown:

(full article online)









						PA says Jewish history in Jerusalem is “fabricated,” “forged,” “delusional myths,” “lies,” “libels,” “legends,” and “stolen heritage” | PMW Analysis
					

"Their so-called 'Temple' - the greatest crime and forgery in history"




					www.palwatch.org


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## Mindful

Photograph taken at the opening of a trade fair in Tel Aviv in the 1930s.  The words "first taaruchah" are written on the back of the photograph so perhaps the Levant Fair in 1934.

Perhaps Meir Dizengoff in the dark suit.


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## Sixties Fan

The Arab Provocation​Did Israel attack its neighbours with no provocation?
To answer that, one have to follow the chain of events that led to 5 of June.

A meeting for “The Final Liquidation Of Israel”​On 13 January 1964,
Representatives of 13 Arab countries gathered at Cairo in what became known as the first Arab League summit
This summit was gathered following Syria and Palestinian fedayeen call for a rematch of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War










The participants of the 1964 Arab League summit
The issue that most worried the participants of this summit was that at that time, Israel dealt with the construction project of the National Water Carrier, in order to increase the water supply to its citizens
The Arab leaders view this project as a threat, it could boost Israel’s economy and strengthen it and thus leave the Zionist entity as an existing fact

“The establishment of Israel is the basic threat that the Arab nation in its entirety has agreed to forestall. And since the existence of Israel is a danger that threatens the Arab nation, the diversion of the Jordan waters by it multiplies the dangers to Arab existence. Accordingly, the Arab states have to prepare the plans necessary for dealing with the political, economic and social aspects, so that if necessary results are not achieved, collective Arab military preparations, when they are not completed, will constitute the ultimate practical means for the final liquidation of Israel.” [1]

And so at night of 31 of December 1964 — A squad of Palestinian guerrillas crossed from Lebanon into northern Israel. Armed with Soviet-made explosives, uniforms supplied by the Syrians, advance toward their target: a pump for conveying Galilee water to the Negev desert.
the explosive charges failed to detonate and exiting Israel, the guerrillas were arrested by Lebanese police

This was the Fatah’s first attack on Israel, and the beginning of a series of confrontations and attacks between 1964–1967 that were known as “The War over Water”, attempts by the Arab countries to divert Israel’s water flow.

(full article online)


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## Mindful

Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.

A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.

An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.


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## Sixties Fan

Mindful said:


> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491


This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
Maybe it belongs on another thread?


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## Mindful

Sixties Fan said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
Click to expand...


Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.

Move it by all means if it disturbs you.


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## Sixties Fan

Mindful said:


> Sixties Fan said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
Click to expand...

It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.

Thanks


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## surada

Roudy said:


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> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> All of which have nothing to do with today's Arabs.  There is not a single land that Arabs don't currently occupy that wasn't conquered via invasions, looting, pillaging and raping.
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> Click to expand...
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> Or today's Jews either.
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> Archaeologists Find 7,000-Year-Old Stone Monuments in Northern Arabia | Archaeology | Sci-News.com
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> An international team of archaeologists has found and studied 104 enigmatic stone structures called ‘mustatils’ in the southern part of the Nefud Desert in northern Arabia.
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> www.sci-news.com
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> Click to expand...
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> Jews have not invaded a single land.  It's the Arabs that started doing it when Mohammad appeared on the scene.  Today's Jews are in their ancestral, religious homeland.  Israel is not going anywhere.  Deal with it.  Palestinians are invaders and squatters from Egypt, Jordan and other Arab lands.
Click to expand...


90% of Palestinians, including Palestinian Bedouin from the Negev, are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers. Deal with it.


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## Mindful

Sixties Fan said:


> Mindful said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
Click to expand...


Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.

Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mindful said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
Click to expand...

I understand all of that.  
Which is why a thread titled "Jewish contribution to the world" should be started on another forum as this Forum is particular to what has happened and continues to happen between Israel and the Palestinians.

Would you like to start that thread?


----------



## surada

Mindful said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
Click to expand...


There are pictures of Jewish girls picnicing with  German pilots in Palestine in 1916.

Jews fought on both sides in 1916.

German Templer colonies in Palestine - Wikipedia




__





						German Templer colonies in Palestine - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



The German Templer Colonies in Palestine were the settlements established in Ottoman Palestine and Mandatory Palestine by the German Pietist Templar movement in the late 19th and early 20th century. The colonies were depopulated during and shortly after World War II. At its height, the Templer community in Palestine numbered 2,000.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> All of which have nothing to do with today's Arabs.  There is not a single land that Arabs don't currently occupy that wasn't conquered via invasions, looting, pillaging and raping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or today's Jews either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archaeologists Find 7,000-Year-Old Stone Monuments in Northern Arabia | Archaeology | Sci-News.com
> 
> 
> An international team of archaeologists has found and studied 104 enigmatic stone structures called ‘mustatils’ in the southern part of the Nefud Desert in northern Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sci-news.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews have not invaded a single land.  It's the Arabs that started doing it when Mohammad appeared on the scene.  Today's Jews are in their ancestral, religious homeland.  Israel is not going anywhere.  Deal with it.  Palestinians are invaders and squatters from Egypt, Jordan and other Arab lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 90% of Palestinians, including Palestinian Bedouin from the Negev, are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers. Deal with it.
Click to expand...

Do stop insulting the Bedouins by telling them that they are descended from 1st Century Jewish farmers.

They are Arabs, not Jews ethnically.

The *Bedouin*, *Beduin* or *Bedu* (/ˈbɛduɪn/;[11] Arabic: بَدْو‎, romanized: _badū_, singular بَدَوِي _badawī_; Hebrew: בֶּדוּאִים‎, romanized: _bedu'ím_, singular בֶּדוּאִי _bedu'í_) are nomadicArab tribes who have historically inhabited the desert regions in the Levant, the Arabian Peninsula, Iraq, and North Africa.[12] However, the Arabian Peninsula is the historic and original homeland of the Bedouin Arabs. The English word _bedouin_ comes from the Arabic _badawī_, which means "desert dweller", and is traditionally contrasted with _ḥāḍir_, the term for sedentary people.[13] Bedouin territory stretches from the vast deserts of North Africa to the rocky sands of the Middle East.[14] They are traditionally divided into tribes, or clans (known in Arabic as _ʿašāʾir_; عَشَائِر), and historically share a common culture of herding camels and goats.[14] The vast majority of Bedouins adhere to Sunni Islam, although there are some fewer numbers of Christian Bedouins present in the Fertile Crescent.[15][7][8][9]

Early history[edit]​
Historically, the Bedouin engaged in nomadic herding, agriculture and sometimes fishing in the Syrian steppe since 6000 BCE. By about 850 BCE, a complex network of settlements and camps was established.[22] A major source of income for these people was the taxation of caravans, and tributes collected from non-Bedouin settlements. They also earned income by transporting goods and people in caravans pulled by domesticated camels across the desert.[25] Scarcity of water and of permanent pastoral land required them to move constantly.

The Moroccan traveller Ibn Battuta reported that in 1326 on the route to Gaza, the Egyptian authorities had a customs post at Qatya on the north coast of Sinai. Here Bedouin were being used to guard the road and track down those trying to cross the border without permission.[26]









						Bedouin - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Mindful

surada said:


> There are pictures of Jewish girls picnicing with German pilots in Palestine in 1916.
> 
> Jews fought on both sides in 1916.


You think I don’t know any of that?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are pictures of Jewish girls picnicing with  German pilots in Palestine in 1916.
> 
> Jews fought on both sides in 1916.
> 
> German Templer colonies in Palestine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> German Templer colonies in Palestine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The German Templer Colonies in Palestine were the settlements established in Ottoman Palestine and Mandatory Palestine by the German Pietist Templar movement in the late 19th and early 20th century. The colonies were depopulated during and shortly after World War II. At its height, the Templer community in Palestine numbered 2,000.
Click to expand...

Not one picture of Jewish girls picnicking with German soldiers from that link.

German Jews were Germans and fought for Germany because they were part of their military.

British Jews were British and fought with the Allies.
American Jews were Americans and fought with the Allies.
French Jews were French and fought with the Allies.


But saying that Jews fought on both sides.....does not really tell the story, does it?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> All of which have nothing to do with today's Arabs.  There is not a single land that Arabs don't currently occupy that wasn't conquered via invasions, looting, pillaging and raping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or today's Jews either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archaeologists Find 7,000-Year-Old Stone Monuments in Northern Arabia | Archaeology | Sci-News.com
> 
> 
> An international team of archaeologists has found and studied 104 enigmatic stone structures called ‘mustatils’ in the southern part of the Nefud Desert in northern Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sci-news.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews have not invaded a single land.  It's the Arabs that started doing it when Mohammad appeared on the scene.  Today's Jews are in their ancestral, religious homeland.  Israel is not going anywhere.  Deal with it.  Palestinians are invaders and squatters from Egypt, Jordan and other Arab lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 90% of Palestinians, including Palestinian Bedouin from the Negev, are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers. Deal with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do stop insulting the Bedouins by telling them that they are descended from 1st Century Jewish farmers.
> 
> They are Arabs, not Jews ethnically.
> 
> The *Bedouin*, *Beduin* or *Bedu* (/ˈbɛduɪn/;[11] Arabic: بَدْو‎, romanized: _badū_, singular بَدَوِي _badawī_; Hebrew: בֶּדוּאִים‎, romanized: _bedu'ím_, singular בֶּדוּאִי _bedu'í_) are nomadicArab tribes who have historically inhabited the desert regions in the Levant, the Arabian Peninsula, Iraq, and North Africa.[12] However, the Arabian Peninsula is the historic and original homeland of the Bedouin Arabs. The English word _bedouin_ comes from the Arabic _badawī_, which means "desert dweller", and is traditionally contrasted with _ḥāḍir_, the term for sedentary people.[13] Bedouin territory stretches from the vast deserts of North Africa to the rocky sands of the Middle East.[14] They are traditionally divided into tribes, or clans (known in Arabic as _ʿašāʾir_; عَشَائِر), and historically share a common culture of herding camels and goats.[14] The vast majority of Bedouins adhere to Sunni Islam, although there are some fewer numbers of Christian Bedouins present in the Fertile Crescent.[15][7][8][9]
> 
> Early history[edit]​
> Historically, the Bedouin engaged in nomadic herding, agriculture and sometimes fishing in the Syrian steppe since 6000 BCE. By about 850 BCE, a complex network of settlements and camps was established.[22] A major source of income for these people was the taxation of caravans, and tributes collected from non-Bedouin settlements. They also earned income by transporting goods and people in caravans pulled by domesticated camels across the desert.[25] Scarcity of water and of permanent pastoral land required them to move constantly.
> 
> The Moroccan traveller Ibn Battuta reported that in 1326 on the route to Gaza, the Egyptian authorities had a customs post at Qatya on the north coast of Sinai. Here Bedouin were being used to guard the road and track down those trying to cross the border without permission.[26]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bedouin - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...


Of course. Arabs began migrating out of the Arabian Peninsula in waves over 10,000 years ago as Arabia became more arid with the retreat of glaciers in the far north. They were all over Mesopotamia, Assyria, Palestine and the Levant.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> All of which have nothing to do with today's Arabs.  There is not a single land that Arabs don't currently occupy that wasn't conquered via invasions, looting, pillaging and raping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or today's Jews either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archaeologists Find 7,000-Year-Old Stone Monuments in Northern Arabia | Archaeology | Sci-News.com
> 
> 
> An international team of archaeologists has found and studied 104 enigmatic stone structures called ‘mustatils’ in the southern part of the Nefud Desert in northern Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sci-news.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews have not invaded a single land.  It's the Arabs that started doing it when Mohammad appeared on the scene.  Today's Jews are in their ancestral, religious homeland.  Israel is not going anywhere.  Deal with it.  Palestinians are invaders and squatters from Egypt, Jordan and other Arab lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 90% of Palestinians, including Palestinian Bedouin from the Negev, are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers. Deal with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do stop insulting the Bedouins by telling them that they are descended from 1st Century Jewish farmers.
> 
> They are Arabs, not Jews ethnically.
> 
> The *Bedouin*, *Beduin* or *Bedu* (/ˈbɛduɪn/;[11] Arabic: بَدْو‎, romanized: _badū_, singular بَدَوِي _badawī_; Hebrew: בֶּדוּאִים‎, romanized: _bedu'ím_, singular בֶּדוּאִי _bedu'í_) are nomadicArab tribes who have historically inhabited the desert regions in the Levant, the Arabian Peninsula, Iraq, and North Africa.[12] However, the Arabian Peninsula is the historic and original homeland of the Bedouin Arabs. The English word _bedouin_ comes from the Arabic _badawī_, which means "desert dweller", and is traditionally contrasted with _ḥāḍir_, the term for sedentary people.[13] Bedouin territory stretches from the vast deserts of North Africa to the rocky sands of the Middle East.[14] They are traditionally divided into tribes, or clans (known in Arabic as _ʿašāʾir_; عَشَائِر), and historically share a common culture of herding camels and goats.[14] The vast majority of Bedouins adhere to Sunni Islam, although there are some fewer numbers of Christian Bedouins present in the Fertile Crescent.[15][7][8][9]
> 
> Early history[edit]​
> Historically, the Bedouin engaged in nomadic herding, agriculture and sometimes fishing in the Syrian steppe since 6000 BCE. By about 850 BCE, a complex network of settlements and camps was established.[22] A major source of income for these people was the taxation of caravans, and tributes collected from non-Bedouin settlements. They also earned income by transporting goods and people in caravans pulled by domesticated camels across the desert.[25] Scarcity of water and of permanent pastoral land required them to move constantly.
> 
> The Moroccan traveller Ibn Battuta reported that in 1326 on the route to Gaza, the Egyptian authorities had a customs post at Qatya on the north coast of Sinai. Here Bedouin were being used to guard the road and track down those trying to cross the border without permission.[26]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bedouin - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course. Arabs began migrating out of the Arabian Peninsula in waves over 10,000 years ago as Arabia became more arid with the retreat of glaciers in the far north. They were all over Mesopotamia, Assyria, Palestine and the Levant.
Click to expand...

Which has nothing to do with them not being the indigenous people of the Land of Canaan where people from all over migrated to at one point in time or another.

The 10,000 years ago quote, comes from the Palestinian leaders like Arafat or Abbas who was trying to say that THEY and not the Jews were the indigenous people from the Land of Canaan.

There is no truth to it.  It is a Prime example of the Arab Muslims attempting to Destroy Jewish History.

Read history from the point of view of the Greeks, Romans, Byzantine, before the Arab invasion in the 7th century.  
Where are the waves of Arabs into the Land of Canaan you keep wanting to make people believe. 
 This idea is a recent one, and comes from the Palestinian leaders to destroy Jewish history on that land.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are pictures of Jewish girls picnicing with  German pilots in Palestine in 1916.
> 
> Jews fought on both sides in 1916.
> 
> German Templer colonies in Palestine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> German Templer colonies in Palestine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The German Templer Colonies in Palestine were the settlements established in Ottoman Palestine and Mandatory Palestine by the German Pietist Templar movement in the late 19th and early 20th century. The colonies were depopulated during and shortly after World War II. At its height, the Templer community in Palestine numbered 2,000.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not one picture of Jewish girls picnicking with German soldiers from that link.
> 
> German Jews were Germans and fought for Germany because they were part of their military.
> 
> British Jews were British and fought with the Allies.
> American Jews were Americans and fought with the Allies.
> French Jews were French and fought with the Allies.
> 
> 
> But saying that Jews fought on both sides.....does not really tell the story, does it?
Click to expand...


I can't seem to find the album of German pilots in Palestine in 1916.


----------



## Mindful

Sixties Fan said:


> Prime example of the Arab Muslims attempting to Destroy Jewish History.



And invent their own.

The number of former Jewish towns which are now Arab, I‘ve travelled through on road trips in Morocco.


----------



## Mindful

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are pictures of Jewish girls picnicing with  German pilots in Palestine in 1916.
> 
> Jews fought on both sides in 1916.
> 
> German Templer colonies in Palestine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> German Templer colonies in Palestine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The German Templer Colonies in Palestine were the settlements established in Ottoman Palestine and Mandatory Palestine by the German Pietist Templar movement in the late 19th and early 20th century. The colonies were depopulated during and shortly after World War II. At its height, the Templer community in Palestine numbered 2,000.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not one picture of Jewish girls picnicking with German soldiers from that link.
> 
> German Jews were Germans and fought for Germany because they were part of their military.
> 
> British Jews were British and fought with the Allies.
> American Jews were Americans and fought with the Allies.
> French Jews were French and fought with the Allies.
> 
> 
> But saying that Jews fought on both sides.....does not really tell the story, does it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can't seem to find the album of German pilots in Palestine in 1916.
Click to expand...

Don’t worry about it.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> All of which have nothing to do with today's Arabs.  There is not a single land that Arabs don't currently occupy that wasn't conquered via invasions, looting, pillaging and raping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or today's Jews either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archaeologists Find 7,000-Year-Old Stone Monuments in Northern Arabia | Archaeology | Sci-News.com
> 
> 
> An international team of archaeologists has found and studied 104 enigmatic stone structures called ‘mustatils’ in the southern part of the Nefud Desert in northern Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sci-news.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews have not invaded a single land.  It's the Arabs that started doing it when Mohammad appeared on the scene.  Today's Jews are in their ancestral, religious homeland.  Israel is not going anywhere.  Deal with it.  Palestinians are invaders and squatters from Egypt, Jordan and other Arab lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 90% of Palestinians, including Palestinian Bedouin from the Negev, are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers. Deal with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do stop insulting the Bedouins by telling them that they are descended from 1st Century Jewish farmers.
> 
> They are Arabs, not Jews ethnically.
> 
> The *Bedouin*, *Beduin* or *Bedu* (/ˈbɛduɪn/;[11] Arabic: بَدْو‎, romanized: _badū_, singular بَدَوِي _badawī_; Hebrew: בֶּדוּאִים‎, romanized: _bedu'ím_, singular בֶּדוּאִי _bedu'í_) are nomadicArab tribes who have historically inhabited the desert regions in the Levant, the Arabian Peninsula, Iraq, and North Africa.[12] However, the Arabian Peninsula is the historic and original homeland of the Bedouin Arabs. The English word _bedouin_ comes from the Arabic _badawī_, which means "desert dweller", and is traditionally contrasted with _ḥāḍir_, the term for sedentary people.[13] Bedouin territory stretches from the vast deserts of North Africa to the rocky sands of the Middle East.[14] They are traditionally divided into tribes, or clans (known in Arabic as _ʿašāʾir_; عَشَائِر), and historically share a common culture of herding camels and goats.[14] The vast majority of Bedouins adhere to Sunni Islam, although there are some fewer numbers of Christian Bedouins present in the Fertile Crescent.[15][7][8][9]
> 
> Early history[edit]​
> Historically, the Bedouin engaged in nomadic herding, agriculture and sometimes fishing in the Syrian steppe since 6000 BCE. By about 850 BCE, a complex network of settlements and camps was established.[22] A major source of income for these people was the taxation of caravans, and tributes collected from non-Bedouin settlements. They also earned income by transporting goods and people in caravans pulled by domesticated camels across the desert.[25] Scarcity of water and of permanent pastoral land required them to move constantly.
> 
> The Moroccan traveller Ibn Battuta reported that in 1326 on the route to Gaza, the Egyptian authorities had a customs post at Qatya on the north coast of Sinai. Here Bedouin were being used to guard the road and track down those trying to cross the border without permission.[26]
> 
> 
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> 
> Bedouin - Wikipedia
> 
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> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course. Arabs began migrating out of the Arabian Peninsula in waves over 10,000 years ago as Arabia became more arid with the retreat of glaciers in the far north. They were all over Mesopotamia, Assyria, Palestine and the Levant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which has nothing to do with them not being the indigenous people of the Land of Canaan where people from all over migrated to at one point in time or another.
> 
> The 10,000 years ago quote, comes from the Palestinian leaders like Abbas who was trying to say that THEY and not the Jews were the indigenous people from the Land of Canaan.
> 
> There is not truth to it.  It is a Prime example of the Arab Muslims attempting to Destroy Jewish History.
Click to expand...


----------



## surada

Mindful said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prime example of the Arab Muslims attempting to Destroy Jewish History.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And invent their own.
> 
> The number of former Jewish towns which are now Arab, I‘ve travelled through on road trips in Morocco.
Click to expand...


The Zionists destroyed over 300 Arab towns in Palestine between 1947 and 1949 and another 67 Druze towns in the Golan in 1967.


----------



## Mindful

surada said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prime example of the Arab Muslims attempting to Destroy Jewish History.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And invent their own.
> 
> The number of former Jewish towns which are now Arab, I‘ve travelled through on road trips in Morocco.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Zionists destroyed over 300 Arab towns in Palestine between 1947 and 1949 and another 67 Druze towns in the Golan in 1967.
Click to expand...


Don’t start with your usual distortions of the word Zionist.

I’m not interested.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority regularly expounds revisionist history, aiming to usurp the Jewish nationality embedded in the land of Israel with a Palestinian narrative. 

For example, on November 15, Palestinian Minister of Foreign Affairs and Expatriates Riyad al-Malki claimed during a UNESCO session that Palestinian culture was 10,000 years old. 

"Palestine is the cradle of culture and religions, and part of our Palestinian people's past, heritage and history is engraved on the walls of its capital Jerusalem – this heritage that Israel, the occupying power, is working to destroy and control, and [it is working] to falsify the history that is witness to our people’s rootedness in its land for more than 10,000 years, which refutes the Israeli occupation’s settlement colonialism narrative," he said.

The academics' appearances on television illustrates how successful this propaganda campaign has been in disseminating revisionist history among the Palestinian population at large. 

(full article online)









						Palestinian deny archaeological evidence of Jews in Israel
					

Jews are 'colonialists' and 'occupiers' who only arrived in Israel in 1948, the academics claimed on Palestinian TV.




					www.jpost.com
				





What is their archeological proof?

It does not exist


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prime example of the Arab Muslims attempting to Destroy Jewish History.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And invent their own.
> 
> The number of former Jewish towns which are now Arab, I‘ve travelled through on road trips in Morocco.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Zionists destroyed over 300 Arab towns in Palestine between 1947 and 1949 and another 67 Druze towns in the Golan in 1967.
Click to expand...

Wrong thread.  Can you find the right one?

Surada has a hard time understanding the meaning of the word War.  Especially as all of these wars were started by the Arab Muslims and Iran


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> All of which have nothing to do with today's Arabs.  There is not a single land that Arabs don't currently occupy that wasn't conquered via invasions, looting, pillaging and raping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or today's Jews either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archaeologists Find 7,000-Year-Old Stone Monuments in Northern Arabia | Archaeology | Sci-News.com
> 
> 
> An international team of archaeologists has found and studied 104 enigmatic stone structures called ‘mustatils’ in the southern part of the Nefud Desert in northern Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sci-news.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews have not invaded a single land.  It's the Arabs that started doing it when Mohammad appeared on the scene.  Today's Jews are in their ancestral, religious homeland.  Israel is not going anywhere.  Deal with it.  Palestinians are invaders and squatters from Egypt, Jordan and other Arab lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 90% of Palestinians, including Palestinian Bedouin from the Negev, are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers. Deal with it.
Click to expand...

Bullshit. Palestinians are assorted Arab squatters from neighboring Arab countries.  Egypt and Jordan controlled the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years from 48 to 67, yet no mention of Palestine or Palestinian by anybody.  Palestinian is a fake invented identity circa 1960's.  Today's Jews are the closest direct decendants of those that inhabited the ancient land of Israel, anybody who proposes anything else is an ignorant idiot and a bigot.


----------



## surada

Roudy said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> All of which have nothing to do with today's Arabs.  There is not a single land that Arabs don't currently occupy that wasn't conquered via invasions, looting, pillaging and raping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or today's Jews either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archaeologists Find 7,000-Year-Old Stone Monuments in Northern Arabia | Archaeology | Sci-News.com
> 
> 
> An international team of archaeologists has found and studied 104 enigmatic stone structures called ‘mustatils’ in the southern part of the Nefud Desert in northern Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sci-news.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews have not invaded a single land.  It's the Arabs that started doing it when Mohammad appeared on the scene.  Today's Jews are in their ancestral, religious homeland.  Israel is not going anywhere.  Deal with it.  Palestinians are invaders and squatters from Egypt, Jordan and other Arab lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 90% of Palestinians, including Palestinian Bedouin from the Negev, are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers. Deal with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit. Palestinians are assorted Arab squatters from neighboring Arab countries.  Egypt and Jordan controlled the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years from 48 to 67, yet no mention of Palestine or Palestinian by anybody.  Palestinian is a fake invented identity circa 1960's.  Today's Jews are the closest direct decendants of those that inhabited the ancient land of Israel, anybody who proposes anything else is an ignorant idiot and a bigot.
Click to expand...


They were called Palestinians since 1950. I know first hand.

Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham.. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in the West Bank circa 600 BC'.

You are bogged down in Zionist lies.

The Jews were northcoast Canaanites from Urfa near Haran.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prime example of the Arab Muslims attempting to Destroy Jewish History.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And invent their own.
> 
> The number of former Jewish towns which are now Arab, I‘ve travelled through on road trips in Morocco.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Zionists destroyed over 300 Arab towns in Palestine between 1947 and 1949 and another 67 Druze towns in the Golan in 1967.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong thread.  Can you find the right one?
> 
> Surada has a hard time understanding the meaning of the word War.  Especially as all of these wars were started by the Arab Muslims and Iran
Click to expand...


Read Moshe Dayan .. The Israelis planned the 1967 war and began provocations in 1953. They wanted more land and water.

That's why they attacked Egypt after Nasser announced a summit to settle the  problem with the Straits of Tiran. 

You do know that most of the Egyptian army was deployed to Yemen from 1962 to 1970.


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> All of which have nothing to do with today's Arabs.  There is not a single land that Arabs don't currently occupy that wasn't conquered via invasions, looting, pillaging and raping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or today's Jews either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archaeologists Find 7,000-Year-Old Stone Monuments in Northern Arabia | Archaeology | Sci-News.com
> 
> 
> An international team of archaeologists has found and studied 104 enigmatic stone structures called ‘mustatils’ in the southern part of the Nefud Desert in northern Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sci-news.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews have not invaded a single land.  It's the Arabs that started doing it when Mohammad appeared on the scene.  Today's Jews are in their ancestral, religious homeland.  Israel is not going anywhere.  Deal with it.  Palestinians are invaders and squatters from Egypt, Jordan and other Arab lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 90% of Palestinians, including Palestinian Bedouin from the Negev, are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers. Deal with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit. Palestinians are assorted Arab squatters from neighboring Arab countries.  Egypt and Jordan controlled the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years from 48 to 67, yet no mention of Palestine or Palestinian by anybody.  Palestinian is a fake invented identity circa 1960's.  Today's Jews are the closest direct decendants of those that inhabited the ancient land of Israel, anybody who proposes anything else is an ignorant idiot and a bigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were called Palestinians since 1950. I know first hand.
> 
> Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham.. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in the West Bank circa 600 BC'.
> 
> You are bogged down in Zionist lies.
> 
> The Jews were northcoast Canaanites from Urfa near Haran.
Click to expand...

You know jack, only IslamoNazi propaganda.  Over half of the Israelis today are middle eastern so called "Arab Jews" who fled the Arab pogroms and are the direct descendants of Jews who fled the destructions of the first and second temples 2500 years ago. You of course have no comment about those Jews who were killed and persecuted by savages and animals and had to flee countries they lived, for in some cases hundreds of years, just because they were Jews. 

Just concern over this fake identity circa 1950's according to your own claim, basically people caught up in the cross fire and told to move out of the way by Arabs when five Arab countries attacked the restablished state of Israel.  Some even joined.  They failed, over and over. Tissue?


----------



## Roudy

Mindful said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are pictures of Jewish girls picnicing with German pilots in Palestine in 1916.
> 
> Jews fought on both sides in 1916.
> 
> 
> 
> You think I don’t know any of that?
Click to expand...

Someone tell this moron that the mufti of Jerusalem aka Hitler's Mufti was a certified Nazi responsible for the massacres of thousands of Christians and causing hundreds of thousands of Jews to be sent to their death camps.


----------



## Mindful

Roudy said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are pictures of Jewish girls picnicing with German pilots in Palestine in 1916.
> 
> Jews fought on both sides in 1916.
> 
> 
> 
> You think I don’t know any of that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Someone tell this moron that the mufti of Jerusalem aka Hitler's Mufti was a certified Nazi responsible for the massacres of thousands of Christians and causing hundreds of thousands of Jews to be sent to their death camps.
Click to expand...


You think we’re taking he/she/it seriously?


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
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> surada said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> All of which have nothing to do with today's Arabs.  There is not a single land that Arabs don't currently occupy that wasn't conquered via invasions, looting, pillaging and raping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or today's Jews either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archaeologists Find 7,000-Year-Old Stone Monuments in Northern Arabia | Archaeology | Sci-News.com
> 
> 
> An international team of archaeologists has found and studied 104 enigmatic stone structures called ‘mustatils’ in the southern part of the Nefud Desert in northern Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sci-news.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews have not invaded a single land.  It's the Arabs that started doing it when Mohammad appeared on the scene.  Today's Jews are in their ancestral, religious homeland.  Israel is not going anywhere.  Deal with it.  Palestinians are invaders and squatters from Egypt, Jordan and other Arab lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 90% of Palestinians, including Palestinian Bedouin from the Negev, are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers. Deal with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit. Palestinians are assorted Arab squatters from neighboring Arab countries.  Egypt and Jordan controlled the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years from 48 to 67, yet no mention of Palestine or Palestinian by anybody.  Palestinian is a fake invented identity circa 1960's.  Today's Jews are the closest direct decendants of those that inhabited the ancient land of Israel, anybody who proposes anything else is an ignorant idiot and a bigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were called Palestinians since 1950. I know first hand.
> 
> Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham.. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in the West Bank circa 600 BC'.
> 
> You are bogged down in Zionist lies.
> 
> The Jews were northcoast Canaanites from Urfa near Haran.
Click to expand...


No that's just another pathetic attempt to Arabize the entire history of the region
after stealing and raping the entire Middle East for centuries.

What it actually reavels is an urge to conceal a history of no achievements
or significant contribution to humanity - but conquest, mass slavery and rape.

Just the same as you claim "Alexander was a Muslim",
and now claim both the Big Ben and Mona Lisa....

Cause in reality  - Jihadis are cowardly bastards who envy everything.














						‘Palestinians’ want London to give back Big Ben
					

When your entire history is fake, you can believe anything.




					www.jns.org


----------



## surada

Mindful said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
Click to expand...


Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> All of which have nothing to do with today's Arabs.  There is not a single land that Arabs don't currently occupy that wasn't conquered via invasions, looting, pillaging and raping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or today's Jews either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archaeologists Find 7,000-Year-Old Stone Monuments in Northern Arabia | Archaeology | Sci-News.com
> 
> 
> An international team of archaeologists has found and studied 104 enigmatic stone structures called ‘mustatils’ in the southern part of the Nefud Desert in northern Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sci-news.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews have not invaded a single land.  It's the Arabs that started doing it when Mohammad appeared on the scene.  Today's Jews are in their ancestral, religious homeland.  Israel is not going anywhere.  Deal with it.  Palestinians are invaders and squatters from Egypt, Jordan and other Arab lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 90% of Palestinians, including Palestinian Bedouin from the Negev, are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers. Deal with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit. Palestinians are assorted Arab squatters from neighboring Arab countries.  Egypt and Jordan controlled the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years from 48 to 67, yet no mention of Palestine or Palestinian by anybody.  Palestinian is a fake invented identity circa 1960's.  Today's Jews are the closest direct decendants of those that inhabited the ancient land of Israel, anybody who proposes anything else is an ignorant idiot and a bigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were called Palestinians since 1950. I know first hand.
> 
> Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham.. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in the West Bank circa 600 BC'.
> 
> You are bogged down in Zionist lies.
> 
> The Jews were northcoast Canaanites from Urfa near Haran.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No that's just another pathetic attempt to Arabize the entire history of the region
> after stealing and raping the entire Middle East for centuries.
> 
> What it actually reavels is an urge to conceal a history of no achievements
> or significant contribution to humanity - but conquest, mass slavery and rape.
> 
> Just the same as you claim "Alexander was a Muslim",
> and now claim both the Big Ben and Mona Lisa....
> 
> Cause in reality  - Jihadis are cowardly bastards who envy everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestinians’ want London to give back Big Ben
> 
> 
> When your entire history is fake, you can believe anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jns.org
Click to expand...


The concept is that anyone who loves the God of Abraham is Muslim.. Which would include Christians and Jews.


----------



## surada

Mindful said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are pictures of Jewish girls picnicing with German pilots in Palestine in 1916.
> 
> Jews fought on both sides in 1916.
> 
> 
> 
> You think I don’t know any of that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Someone tell this moron that the mufti of Jerusalem aka Hitler's Mufti was a certified Nazi responsible for the massacres of thousands of Christians and causing hundreds of thousands of Jews to be sent to their death camps.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You think we’re taking he/she/it seriously?
Click to expand...


That's what I said you should read Moshe Dayan on the 1967 war or Ben Gurion on the Palestinians being descended from jews.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
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> surada said:
> 
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> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> All of which have nothing to do with today's Arabs.  There is not a single land that Arabs don't currently occupy that wasn't conquered via invasions, looting, pillaging and raping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or today's Jews either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archaeologists Find 7,000-Year-Old Stone Monuments in Northern Arabia | Archaeology | Sci-News.com
> 
> 
> An international team of archaeologists has found and studied 104 enigmatic stone structures called ‘mustatils’ in the southern part of the Nefud Desert in northern Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sci-news.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews have not invaded a single land.  It's the Arabs that started doing it when Mohammad appeared on the scene.  Today's Jews are in their ancestral, religious homeland.  Israel is not going anywhere.  Deal with it.  Palestinians are invaders and squatters from Egypt, Jordan and other Arab lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 90% of Palestinians, including Palestinian Bedouin from the Negev, are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers. Deal with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit. Palestinians are assorted Arab squatters from neighboring Arab countries.  Egypt and Jordan controlled the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years from 48 to 67, yet no mention of Palestine or Palestinian by anybody.  Palestinian is a fake invented identity circa 1960's.  Today's Jews are the closest direct decendants of those that inhabited the ancient land of Israel, anybody who proposes anything else is an ignorant idiot and a bigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were called Palestinians since 1950. I know first hand.
> 
> Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham.. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in the West Bank circa 600 BC'.
> 
> You are bogged down in Zionist lies.
> 
> The Jews were northcoast Canaanites from Urfa near Haran.
Click to expand...

So, is it 10,000 of Palestinians being in the Land of Canaan or 3800 years?

And why does it keep changing with the wind?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
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> Roudy said:
> 
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> All of which have nothing to do with today's Arabs.  There is not a single land that Arabs don't currently occupy that wasn't conquered via invasions, looting, pillaging and raping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or today's Jews either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archaeologists Find 7,000-Year-Old Stone Monuments in Northern Arabia | Archaeology | Sci-News.com
> 
> 
> An international team of archaeologists has found and studied 104 enigmatic stone structures called ‘mustatils’ in the southern part of the Nefud Desert in northern Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sci-news.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews have not invaded a single land.  It's the Arabs that started doing it when Mohammad appeared on the scene.  Today's Jews are in their ancestral, religious homeland.  Israel is not going anywhere.  Deal with it.  Palestinians are invaders and squatters from Egypt, Jordan and other Arab lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 90% of Palestinians, including Palestinian Bedouin from the Negev, are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers. Deal with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit. Palestinians are assorted Arab squatters from neighboring Arab countries.  Egypt and Jordan controlled the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years from 48 to 67, yet no mention of Palestine or Palestinian by anybody.  Palestinian is a fake invented identity circa 1960's.  Today's Jews are the closest direct decendants of those that inhabited the ancient land of Israel, anybody who proposes anything else is an ignorant idiot and a bigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were called Palestinians since 1950. I know first hand.
> 
> Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham.. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in the West Bank circa 600 BC'.
> 
> You are bogged down in Zionist lies.
> 
> The Jews were northcoast Canaanites from Urfa near Haran.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No that's just another pathetic attempt to Arabize the entire history of the region
> after stealing and raping the entire Middle East for centuries.
> 
> What it actually reavels is an urge to conceal a history of no achievements
> or significant contribution to humanity - but conquest, mass slavery and rape.
> 
> Just the same as you claim "Alexander was a Muslim",
> and now claim both the Big Ben and Mona Lisa....
> 
> Cause in reality  - Jihadis are cowardly bastards who envy everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestinians’ want London to give back Big Ben
> 
> 
> When your entire history is fake, you can believe anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jns.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The concept is that anyone who loves the God of Abraham is Muslim.. Which would include Christians and Jews.
Click to expand...

The concept is that from the first humans, Adam and Eve, all are Muslim.  Which turns all humans into Muslims when Islam only came to be in the 7th century and only after the Jews would not accept changing Judaism in the way Mohammad wanted to have it change......just for him.....to accommodate his views of being more important than Judaism.

And it continues to be odd that it took the Jews recreating their ancient nation and becoming sovereign over a small portion of it, for all of this Muslim ideas to come forward.

There is one Muslim idea intent on destroying Jewish History and Israel, and actually the history of the whole world.....every day.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
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> Roudy said:
> 
> 
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
> 
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> surada said:
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> 
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> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> All of which have nothing to do with today's Arabs.  There is not a single land that Arabs don't currently occupy that wasn't conquered via invasions, looting, pillaging and raping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or today's Jews either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archaeologists Find 7,000-Year-Old Stone Monuments in Northern Arabia | Archaeology | Sci-News.com
> 
> 
> An international team of archaeologists has found and studied 104 enigmatic stone structures called ‘mustatils’ in the southern part of the Nefud Desert in northern Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sci-news.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews have not invaded a single land.  It's the Arabs that started doing it when Mohammad appeared on the scene.  Today's Jews are in their ancestral, religious homeland.  Israel is not going anywhere.  Deal with it.  Palestinians are invaders and squatters from Egypt, Jordan and other Arab lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 90% of Palestinians, including Palestinian Bedouin from the Negev, are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers. Deal with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit. Palestinians are assorted Arab squatters from neighboring Arab countries.  Egypt and Jordan controlled the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years from 48 to 67, yet no mention of Palestine or Palestinian by anybody.  Palestinian is a fake invented identity circa 1960's.  Today's Jews are the closest direct decendants of those that inhabited the ancient land of Israel, anybody who proposes anything else is an ignorant idiot and a bigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were called Palestinians since 1950. I know first hand.
> 
> Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham.. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in the West Bank circa 600 BC'.
> 
> You are bogged down in Zionist lies.
> 
> The Jews were northcoast Canaanites from Urfa near Haran.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No that's just another pathetic attempt to Arabize the entire history of the region
> after stealing and raping the entire Middle East for centuries.
> 
> What it actually reavels is an urge to conceal a history of no achievements
> or significant contribution to humanity - but conquest, mass slavery and rape.
> 
> Just the same as you claim "Alexander was a Muslim",
> and now claim both the Big Ben and Mona Lisa....
> 
> Cause in reality  - Jihadis are cowardly bastards who envy everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestinians’ want London to give back Big Ben
> 
> 
> When your entire history is fake, you can believe anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jns.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The concept is that anyone who loves the God of Abraham is Muslim.. Which would include Christians and Jews.
Click to expand...


Leave your Jihadi propaganda for the gullible,
first Arabs invaded, then raped and enslaved the entire middle east,
and having *less books published in the entire Arab world* than Greece alone,
now trying to appropriate the history of just about any great nation you've raped.

And now, not losing a single opportunity
to demonstrate just how pathetically
you're overcompensating.

Because again - Jihadis have nothing to offer but mass slavery, rape, envy and degradation.

*"I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim."









						Sahih Muslim 1767a - The Book of Jihad and Expeditions -  كتاب الجهاد والسير - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)
					

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic




					sunnah.com
				



*​


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are pictures of Jewish girls picnicing with German pilots in Palestine in 1916.
> 
> Jews fought on both sides in 1916.
> 
> 
> 
> You think I don’t know any of that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Someone tell this moron that the mufti of Jerusalem aka Hitler's Mufti was a certified Nazi responsible for the massacres of thousands of Christians and causing hundreds of thousands of Jews to be sent to their death camps.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You think we’re taking he/she/it seriously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's what I said you should read Moshe Dayan on the 1967 war or Ben Gurion on the Palestinians being descended from jews.
Click to expand...

Give us a link to those quotes because very clearly you did not read those books and Ben Gurion's "quote" did not come from his mouth or pen.


----------



## Mindful

surada said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
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> Mindful said:
> 
> 
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> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?
Click to expand...


How many times have I told you I’m not interested in anything you have to say?


----------



## Mindful

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are pictures of Jewish girls picnicing with German pilots in Palestine in 1916.
> 
> Jews fought on both sides in 1916.
> 
> 
> 
> You think I don’t know any of that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Someone tell this moron that the mufti of Jerusalem aka Hitler's Mufti was a certified Nazi responsible for the massacres of thousands of Christians and causing hundreds of thousands of Jews to be sent to their death camps.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You think we’re taking he/she/it seriously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's what I said you should read Moshe Dayan on the 1967 war or Ben Gurion on the Palestinians being descended from jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give us a link to those quotes because very clearly you did not read those books and Ben Gurion's "quote" did not come from his mouth or pen.
Click to expand...


That person’s a troll.


----------



## surada

Roudy said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
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> surada said:
> 
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
> 
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> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> All of which have nothing to do with today's Arabs.  There is not a single land that Arabs don't currently occupy that wasn't conquered via invasions, looting, pillaging and raping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or today's Jews either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archaeologists Find 7,000-Year-Old Stone Monuments in Northern Arabia | Archaeology | Sci-News.com
> 
> 
> An international team of archaeologists has found and studied 104 enigmatic stone structures called ‘mustatils’ in the southern part of the Nefud Desert in northern Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sci-news.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews have not invaded a single land.  It's the Arabs that started doing it when Mohammad appeared on the scene.  Today's Jews are in their ancestral, religious homeland.  Israel is not going anywhere.  Deal with it.  Palestinians are invaders and squatters from Egypt, Jordan and other Arab lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 90% of Palestinians, including Palestinian Bedouin from the Negev, are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers. Deal with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit. Palestinians are assorted Arab squatters from neighboring Arab countries.  Egypt and Jordan controlled the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years from 48 to 67, yet no mention of Palestine or Palestinian by anybody.  Palestinian is a fake invented identity circa 1960's.  Today's Jews are the closest direct decendants of those that inhabited the ancient land of Israel, anybody who proposes anything else is an ignorant idiot and a bigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were called Palestinians since 1950. I know first hand.
> 
> Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham.. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in the West Bank circa 600 BC'.
> 
> You are bogged down in Zionist lies.
> 
> The Jews were northcoast Canaanites from Urfa near Haran.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You know jack, only IslamoNazi propaganda.  Over half of the Israelis today are middle eastern so called "Arab Jews" who fled the Arab pogroms and are the direct descendants of Jews who fled the destructions of the first and second temples 2500 years ago. You of course have no comment about those Jews who were killed and persecuted by savages and animals and had to flee countries they lived, for in some cases hundreds of years, just because they were Jews.
> 
> Just concern over this fake identity circa 1950's according to your own claim, basically people caught up in the cross fire and told to move out of the way by Arabs when five Arab countries attacked the restablished state of Israel.  Some even joined.  They failed, over and over. Tissue?
Click to expand...



I know.. The Arab Jews migrated in waves in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973. If not for Zionism they would stll be living in the countries where they were born.There were still a lot of successful Jews in Libya in 1973..

The Jews of Bahrain continue to prosper.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
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> 
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> Roudy said:
> 
> 
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> 
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> surada said:
> 
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> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> All of which have nothing to do with today's Arabs.  There is not a single land that Arabs don't currently occupy that wasn't conquered via invasions, looting, pillaging and raping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or today's Jews either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archaeologists Find 7,000-Year-Old Stone Monuments in Northern Arabia | Archaeology | Sci-News.com
> 
> 
> An international team of archaeologists has found and studied 104 enigmatic stone structures called ‘mustatils’ in the southern part of the Nefud Desert in northern Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sci-news.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews have not invaded a single land.  It's the Arabs that started doing it when Mohammad appeared on the scene.  Today's Jews are in their ancestral, religious homeland.  Israel is not going anywhere.  Deal with it.  Palestinians are invaders and squatters from Egypt, Jordan and other Arab lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 90% of Palestinians, including Palestinian Bedouin from the Negev, are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers. Deal with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit. Palestinians are assorted Arab squatters from neighboring Arab countries.  Egypt and Jordan controlled the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years from 48 to 67, yet no mention of Palestine or Palestinian by anybody.  Palestinian is a fake invented identity circa 1960's.  Today's Jews are the closest direct decendants of those that inhabited the ancient land of Israel, anybody who proposes anything else is an ignorant idiot and a bigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were called Palestinians since 1950. I know first hand.
> 
> Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham.. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in the West Bank circa 600 BC'.
> 
> You are bogged down in Zionist lies.
> 
> The Jews were northcoast Canaanites from Urfa near Haran.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No that's just another pathetic attempt to Arabize the entire history of the region
> after stealing and raping the entire Middle East for centuries.
> 
> What it actually reavels is an urge to conceal a history of no achievements
> or significant contribution to humanity - but conquest, mass slavery and rape.
> 
> Just the same as you claim "Alexander was a Muslim",
> and now claim both the Big Ben and Mona Lisa....
> 
> Cause in reality  - Jihadis are cowardly bastards who envy everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestinians’ want London to give back Big Ben
> 
> 
> When your entire history is fake, you can believe anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jns.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The concept is that anyone who loves the God of Abraham is Muslim.. Which would include Christians and Jews.
Click to expand...

One more thing, to Muslims Allah and the God of Abraham are not the same one.

The Muslim god is Allah, the only one who was not destroyed by Mohammad in order to create Islam.

And that, ONLY 2400 years After, Judaism was created.

What were the Arabs doing during all of that time?
Did they miss the boat and only found it and tried to destroy it in the 7th century?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
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> rylah said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
> 
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> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> All of which have nothing to do with today's Arabs.  There is not a single land that Arabs don't currently occupy that wasn't conquered via invasions, looting, pillaging and raping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or today's Jews either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archaeologists Find 7,000-Year-Old Stone Monuments in Northern Arabia | Archaeology | Sci-News.com
> 
> 
> An international team of archaeologists has found and studied 104 enigmatic stone structures called ‘mustatils’ in the southern part of the Nefud Desert in northern Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sci-news.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews have not invaded a single land.  It's the Arabs that started doing it when Mohammad appeared on the scene.  Today's Jews are in their ancestral, religious homeland.  Israel is not going anywhere.  Deal with it.  Palestinians are invaders and squatters from Egypt, Jordan and other Arab lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 90% of Palestinians, including Palestinian Bedouin from the Negev, are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers. Deal with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit. Palestinians are assorted Arab squatters from neighboring Arab countries.  Egypt and Jordan controlled the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years from 48 to 67, yet no mention of Palestine or Palestinian by anybody.  Palestinian is a fake invented identity circa 1960's.  Today's Jews are the closest direct decendants of those that inhabited the ancient land of Israel, anybody who proposes anything else is an ignorant idiot and a bigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were called Palestinians since 1950. I know first hand.
> 
> Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham.. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in the West Bank circa 600 BC'.
> 
> You are bogged down in Zionist lies.
> 
> The Jews were northcoast Canaanites from Urfa near Haran.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No that's just another pathetic attempt to Arabize the entire history of the region
> after stealing and raping the entire Middle East for centuries.
> 
> What it actually reavels is an urge to conceal a history of no achievements
> or significant contribution to humanity - but conquest, mass slavery and rape.
> 
> Just the same as you claim "Alexander was a Muslim",
> and now claim both the Big Ben and Mona Lisa....
> 
> Cause in reality  - Jihadis are cowardly bastards who envy everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestinians’ want London to give back Big Ben
> 
> 
> When your entire history is fake, you can believe anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jns.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The concept is that anyone who loves the God of Abraham is Muslim.. Which would include Christians and Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One more thing, to Muslims Allah and the God of Abraham are not the same one.
> 
> The Muslim god is Allah, the only one who was not destroyed by Mohammad in order to create Islam.
> 
> And that, ONLY 2400 years After, Judaism was created.
> 
> What were the Arabs doing during all of that time?
> Did they miss the boat and only found it and tried to destroy it in the 7th century?
Click to expand...


Same God.. whether you are Christian, Muslim or Jew. What were the Gentiles doing before Jesus , you asshole?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> All of which have nothing to do with today's Arabs.  There is not a single land that Arabs don't currently occupy that wasn't conquered via invasions, looting, pillaging and raping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or today's Jews either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archaeologists Find 7,000-Year-Old Stone Monuments in Northern Arabia | Archaeology | Sci-News.com
> 
> 
> An international team of archaeologists has found and studied 104 enigmatic stone structures called ‘mustatils’ in the southern part of the Nefud Desert in northern Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sci-news.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews have not invaded a single land.  It's the Arabs that started doing it when Mohammad appeared on the scene.  Today's Jews are in their ancestral, religious homeland.  Israel is not going anywhere.  Deal with it.  Palestinians are invaders and squatters from Egypt, Jordan and other Arab lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 90% of Palestinians, including Palestinian Bedouin from the Negev, are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers. Deal with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit. Palestinians are assorted Arab squatters from neighboring Arab countries.  Egypt and Jordan controlled the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years from 48 to 67, yet no mention of Palestine or Palestinian by anybody.  Palestinian is a fake invented identity circa 1960's.  Today's Jews are the closest direct decendants of those that inhabited the ancient land of Israel, anybody who proposes anything else is an ignorant idiot and a bigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were called Palestinians since 1950. I know first hand.
> 
> Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham.. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in the West Bank circa 600 BC'.
> 
> You are bogged down in Zionist lies.
> 
> The Jews were northcoast Canaanites from Urfa near Haran.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You know jack, only IslamoNazi propaganda.  Over half of the Israelis today are middle eastern so called "Arab Jews" who fled the Arab pogroms and are the direct descendants of Jews who fled the destructions of the first and second temples 2500 years ago. You of course have no comment about those Jews who were killed and persecuted by savages and animals and had to flee countries they lived, for in some cases hundreds of years, just because they were Jews.
> 
> Just concern over this fake identity circa 1950's according to your own claim, basically people caught up in the cross fire and told to move out of the way by Arabs when five Arab countries attacked the restablished state of Israel.  Some even joined.  They failed, over and over. Tissue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I know.. The Arab Jews migrated in waves in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973. If not for Zionism they would stll be living in the countries where they were born.There were still a lot of successful Jews in Libya in 1973..
> 
> The Jews of Bahrain continue to prosper.
Click to expand...

The Jews are not Arabs.


Arabs are one ethnicity and Jews are another ethnicity.

The Jews from Arab countries were Forced out of the Arab conquered lands after 1948, especially from 1950 on with the Muslim attempt to destroy Israel economically as they were not able to destroy it militarily in 1948.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> All of which have nothing to do with today's Arabs.  There is not a single land that Arabs don't currently occupy that wasn't conquered via invasions, looting, pillaging and raping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or today's Jews either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archaeologists Find 7,000-Year-Old Stone Monuments in Northern Arabia | Archaeology | Sci-News.com
> 
> 
> An international team of archaeologists has found and studied 104 enigmatic stone structures called ‘mustatils’ in the southern part of the Nefud Desert in northern Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sci-news.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews have not invaded a single land.  It's the Arabs that started doing it when Mohammad appeared on the scene.  Today's Jews are in their ancestral, religious homeland.  Israel is not going anywhere.  Deal with it.  Palestinians are invaders and squatters from Egypt, Jordan and other Arab lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 90% of Palestinians, including Palestinian Bedouin from the Negev, are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers. Deal with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit. Palestinians are assorted Arab squatters from neighboring Arab countries.  Egypt and Jordan controlled the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years from 48 to 67, yet no mention of Palestine or Palestinian by anybody.  Palestinian is a fake invented identity circa 1960's.  Today's Jews are the closest direct decendants of those that inhabited the ancient land of Israel, anybody who proposes anything else is an ignorant idiot and a bigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were called Palestinians since 1950. I know first hand.
> 
> Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham.. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in the West Bank circa 600 BC'.
> 
> You are bogged down in Zionist lies.
> 
> The Jews were northcoast Canaanites from Urfa near Haran.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No that's just another pathetic attempt to Arabize the entire history of the region
> after stealing and raping the entire Middle East for centuries.
> 
> What it actually reavels is an urge to conceal a history of no achievements
> or significant contribution to humanity - but conquest, mass slavery and rape.
> 
> Just the same as you claim "Alexander was a Muslim",
> and now claim both the Big Ben and Mona Lisa....
> 
> Cause in reality  - Jihadis are cowardly bastards who envy everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestinians’ want London to give back Big Ben
> 
> 
> When your entire history is fake, you can believe anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jns.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The concept is that anyone who loves the God of Abraham is Muslim.. Which would include Christians and Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One more thing, to Muslims Allah and the God of Abraham are not the same one.
> 
> The Muslim god is Allah, the only one who was not destroyed by Mohammad in order to create Islam.
> 
> And that, ONLY 2400 years After, Judaism was created.
> 
> What were the Arabs doing during all of that time?
> Did they miss the boat and only found it and tried to destroy it in the 7th century?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Same God.. whether you are Christian, Muslim or Jew. What were the Gentiles doing before Jesus , you asshole?
Click to expand...

Mind your language, loser.

It is not the same god.  Jesus is not the creator of the Universe, as Christians turned him into.

The G-d of Abraham is one entity.   Jesus was a human being turned god by Paul of Tarsus.  And Allah was Mohammad's choice for a god to create his religion and be the "chosen" one over the Jewish and Christian religions.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> All of which have nothing to do with today's Arabs.  There is not a single land that Arabs don't currently occupy that wasn't conquered via invasions, looting, pillaging and raping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or today's Jews either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archaeologists Find 7,000-Year-Old Stone Monuments in Northern Arabia | Archaeology | Sci-News.com
> 
> 
> An international team of archaeologists has found and studied 104 enigmatic stone structures called ‘mustatils’ in the southern part of the Nefud Desert in northern Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sci-news.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews have not invaded a single land.  It's the Arabs that started doing it when Mohammad appeared on the scene.  Today's Jews are in their ancestral, religious homeland.  Israel is not going anywhere.  Deal with it.  Palestinians are invaders and squatters from Egypt, Jordan and other Arab lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 90% of Palestinians, including Palestinian Bedouin from the Negev, are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers. Deal with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit. Palestinians are assorted Arab squatters from neighboring Arab countries.  Egypt and Jordan controlled the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years from 48 to 67, yet no mention of Palestine or Palestinian by anybody.  Palestinian is a fake invented identity circa 1960's.  Today's Jews are the closest direct decendants of those that inhabited the ancient land of Israel, anybody who proposes anything else is an ignorant idiot and a bigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were called Palestinians since 1950. I know first hand.
> 
> Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham.. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in the West Bank circa 600 BC'.
> 
> You are bogged down in Zionist lies.
> 
> The Jews were northcoast Canaanites from Urfa near Haran.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No that's just another pathetic attempt to Arabize the entire history of the region
> after stealing and raping the entire Middle East for centuries.
> 
> What it actually reavels is an urge to conceal a history of no achievements
> or significant contribution to humanity - but conquest, mass slavery and rape.
> 
> Just the same as you claim "Alexander was a Muslim",
> and now claim both the Big Ben and Mona Lisa....
> 
> Cause in reality  - Jihadis are cowardly bastards who envy everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestinians’ want London to give back Big Ben
> 
> 
> When your entire history is fake, you can believe anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jns.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The concept is that anyone who loves the God of Abraham is Muslim.. Which would include Christians and Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One more thing, to Muslims Allah and the God of Abraham are not the same one.
> 
> The Muslim god is Allah, the only one who was not destroyed by Mohammad in order to create Islam.
> 
> And that, ONLY 2400 years After, Judaism was created.
> 
> What were the Arabs doing during all of that time?
> Did they miss the boat and only found it and tried to destroy it in the 7th century?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Same God.. whether you are Christian, Muslim or Jew. What were the Gentiles doing before Jesus , you asshole?
Click to expand...

Gentiles, aka, Pagans?  What were the Pagans doing?  Who were their gods? Many different nations, many different gods, and ideas of creations, ideas wiped away by Christianity and Islam.


----------



## rylah

Read about the Jahilliyah,
from Arab sources.

Before Islam they were drunkard nomads,
burying their daughters alive in the desert of Arabia...


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?
Click to expand...

There is only one reason for any Jew to seek alliance with the Nazis.  It was to save Jews and bring them to Palestine.

Lehi split from the Irgun militant group in 1940 in order to continue fighting the British during World War II. Lehi initially sought an alliance with Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, offering to fight alongside them against the British in return for the transfer of all Jews from Nazi-occupied Europe to Palestine









						Lehi (militant group) - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




On the other hand......
The reason the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Al Husseini joined with the Nazis in real time, was to keep the Jews from immigrating to the Mandate for Palestine.
He even went as far as creating the Bosnia Nazi troop which killed all the Jews in Bosnia.
-----------
As Al-Husseini later explained to Hitler, the Arabs had the same enemies as the Nazis: the Jews, English, and Russians. According to the German record of their meeting, Al-Husseini said the Muslims under his sway “were prepared to cooperate with Germany with all their hearts and stood ready to participate in the war, not only negatively by the commission of acts of sabotage and the instigation of revolutions, but also positively by the formation of an Arab Legion.” He was tasked by Hitler with recruiting Bosnian Muslims into what became the 13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS, the first non-German SS devision.









						The Nazis, with the help of an Arab cleric, used Islamic extremists as a tool
					

It didn’t end well for anyone




					timeline.com


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan
> Roudy
> 
> The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan).
> 
> The Amorites lived in the hill country. Other tribes lived in Canaan: The Perizzites, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Moabites, Edomites, Philistines and Girgashites.
> Map of the Canaanites (Bible History Online)
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html
> 
> 
> 
> All of which have nothing to do with today's Arabs.  There is not a single land that Arabs don't currently occupy that wasn't conquered via invasions, looting, pillaging and raping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or today's Jews either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archaeologists Find 7,000-Year-Old Stone Monuments in Northern Arabia | Archaeology | Sci-News.com
> 
> 
> An international team of archaeologists has found and studied 104 enigmatic stone structures called ‘mustatils’ in the southern part of the Nefud Desert in northern Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sci-news.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews have not invaded a single land.  It's the Arabs that started doing it when Mohammad appeared on the scene.  Today's Jews are in their ancestral, religious homeland.  Israel is not going anywhere.  Deal with it.  Palestinians are invaders and squatters from Egypt, Jordan and other Arab lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 90% of Palestinians, including Palestinian Bedouin from the Negev, are descended from 1st century Jewish farmers. Deal with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit. Palestinians are assorted Arab squatters from neighboring Arab countries.  Egypt and Jordan controlled the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years from 48 to 67, yet no mention of Palestine or Palestinian by anybody.  Palestinian is a fake invented identity circa 1960's.  Today's Jews are the closest direct decendants of those that inhabited the ancient land of Israel, anybody who proposes anything else is an ignorant idiot and a bigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were called Palestinians since 1950. I know first hand.
> 
> Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham.. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in the West Bank circa 600 BC'.
> 
> You are bogged down in Zionist lies.
> 
> The Jews were northcoast Canaanites from Urfa near Haran.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You know jack, only IslamoNazi propaganda.  Over half of the Israelis today are middle eastern so called "Arab Jews" who fled the Arab pogroms and are the direct descendants of Jews who fled the destructions of the first and second temples 2500 years ago. You of course have no comment about those Jews who were killed and persecuted by savages and animals and had to flee countries they lived, for in some cases hundreds of years, just because they were Jews.
> 
> Just concern over this fake identity circa 1950's according to your own claim, basically people caught up in the cross fire and told to move out of the way by Arabs when five Arab countries attacked the restablished state of Israel.  Some even joined.  They failed, over and over. Tissue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I know.. The Arab Jews migrated in waves in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973. If not for Zionism they would stll be living in the countries where they were born.There were still a lot of successful Jews in Libya in 1973..
> 
> The Jews of Bahrain continue to prosper.
Click to expand...

And who told you that, the IslamoNazi voices in your head? Perhaps if  you spoke to a middle eastern Jew and gave them a chance to explain what was done to them.  The ideology wasn't so different than the Nazis.


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?
Click to expand...

No I'm talking about this guy, the founder of IslamoNazism and  Egyptian born Arafat's uncle and mentor.  Bet you didn't know Arafat'slasr name was Husseini before he changed it.  Your ignorance and bigotry is beginning to show.









						Hitler's Mufti
					

Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini.




					www.catholic.com
				




Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini. This Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited whole divisions of fanatics to fight and kill in the name of extremism.

Revered in some circles today as one of the fathers of modern radical Islam, al-Husseini has been the subject of a number of modern studies. Scholars such as David Dalin, John Rothmann, Chuck Morse, and others have courageously brought al-Husseini’s actions to light. “Hitler’s Mufti,” as many have called him, had a direct hand in some of the darkest moments of the Holocaust, the slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians, and the formation of some of the most hate-filled generations of modern history. Al-Husseini is a testament to the way that evil finds evil.


----------



## surada

Roudy said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I'm talking about this guy, the founder of IslamoNazism and  Egyptian born Arafat's uncle and mentor.  Bet you didn't know Arafat'slasr name was Husseini before he changed it.  Your ignorance and bigotry is beginning to show.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler's Mufti
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.catholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini. This Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited whole divisions of fanatics to fight and kill in the name of extremism.
> 
> Revered in some circles today as one of the fathers of modern radical Islam, al-Husseini has been the subject of a number of modern studies. Scholars such as David Dalin, John Rothmann, Chuck Morse, and others have courageously brought al-Husseini’s actions to light. “Hitler’s Mufti,” as many have called him, had a direct hand in some of the darkest moments of the Holocaust, the slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians, and the formation of some of the most hate-filled generations of modern history. Al-Husseini is a testament to the way that evil finds evil.
Click to expand...


The Mutfi was not Arafat's uncle.. Different family.

The population of Palestine had already doubled with European refugees. The Mufti met with Hitler in Nov of 1941 for 10 minutes to ask to ask for a reprieve.. Could they go elsewhere?

Its become fashionable in recent years to justify what the Zionists  did in Palestine by blaming the Mufti for the Holocaust instead of Hitler.

Likewise, the Zionists didn't fight Hitler, but they are ever so keen to kill Palestinians and take their land.

Remember that the Jewish terror gangs were founded in the early 1920 and by 1948 they had killed over 500 British peacekeepers.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I'm talking about this guy, the founder of IslamoNazism and  Egyptian born Arafat's uncle and mentor.  Bet you didn't know Arafat'slasr name was Husseini before he changed it.  Your ignorance and bigotry is beginning to show.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler's Mufti
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.catholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini. This Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited whole divisions of fanatics to fight and kill in the name of extremism.
> 
> Revered in some circles today as one of the fathers of modern radical Islam, al-Husseini has been the subject of a number of modern studies. Scholars such as David Dalin, John Rothmann, Chuck Morse, and others have courageously brought al-Husseini’s actions to light. “Hitler’s Mufti,” as many have called him, had a direct hand in some of the darkest moments of the Holocaust, the slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians, and the formation of some of the most hate-filled generations of modern history. Al-Husseini is a testament to the way that evil finds evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Mutfi was not Arafat's uncle.. Different family.
> 
> The population of Palestine had already doubled with European refugees. The Mufti met with Hitler in Nov of 1941 for 10 minutes to ask to ask for a reprieve.. Could they go elsewhere?
> 
> Its become fashionable in recent years to justify what the Zionists  did in Palestine by blaming the Mufti for the Holocaust instead of Hitler.
> 
> Likewise, the Zionists didn't fight Hitler, but they are ever so keen to kill Palestinians and take their land.
> 
> Remember that the Jewish terror gangs were founded in the early 1920 and by 1948 they had killed over 500 British peacekeepers.
Click to expand...

You say such nonsense to make it sound sensible:

The Zionists were peaceful people attempting to re create, RE CREATE their Nation, THEIR nation ON their ancient Homeland.

The JEWISH, nobody else's HOMELAND. 

Read, re read, understand that simple point.

The Arabs you are calling Palestinians, who ONLY started calling themselves Palestinians in 1964 after Arafat went to Moscow and concocted with the KGB this new Nationality, since the Jews did not use the word Palestine for their new Nation, because the word Palestine was used by the British, instead of the word Israel, or Judea, just to humiliate the Jews, just as the Romans had done in the 2nd Century when the Romans renamed the area Syria Palestine after the Bar Kochba revolts, to.......put an end to the Jewish revolts.


The reason the Jews had to get weapons and protect themselves from 1920 to 1948 is because Al Husseini defeated the clans which wanted to live in peace with the Jews in the new recreated Jewish Nation after the Balfour Declaration.

From 1920 to 1948 the Jews were attacked mercilessly by Arabs incited by the Grand Mufti who would not accept, under any circumstance, a Jewish Sovereign Nation on once conquered Muslim land.

The Grand Mufti was raised on hatred for Jews, they were monkeys and pigs to him, as most Muslims are taught (read the Koran and other Muslim writings) and the Jews ought to be killed.

This is what too many Muslims believe in and live on and act on, as we continue to see Jews being attacked all over the world:

However, we hope that the words of the Prophet Muhammad will be fulfilled: Judgment Day will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Jews will hide behind the rocks and the trees, but the rocks and the trees will say: Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him — except for the gharqad tree, which is one of the trees of the Jews.”

In 2010, Mohammed Morsi referred to “Zionists” as “bloodsuckers” and “descendants of apes and pigs” in two filmed interviews. He was elected to be the president of Egypt two years later as a candidate backed by the Muslim Brotherhood.









						Egyptian minister quotes Koran verse on killing Jews
					

In an interview last month, Talaat Mohamed Afifi Salem said Judgment Day will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





Here is Hamas, as a continuation of what the Grand Mufti started:

Anti-Semitic Incitement: ------------------------ 'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees,  and  the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.' (Article 7) 'The enemies have  been  scheming  for  a  long  time  ...  and  have accumulated huge and influential material wealth. With  their  money, they took control of the world media... With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the globe... They  stood  behind  the French  Revolution,  the  Communist  Revolution  and  most   of   the revolutions we hear about... With  their  money  they  formed  secret organizations - such as the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs and the Lions  - which are spreading around the world, in order to  destroy  societies and carry out Zionist interests... They stood behind World War I  ... and formed the League of Nations through which they  could  rule  the world. They were behind World War II, through which  they  made  huge financial gains... There is no war going  on  anywhere  without  them having their finger in it.' (Article 22) 'Zionism scheming has no end, and after Palestine,  they  will  covet expansion from the Nile  to  the  Euphrates  River.  When  they  have finished digesting the area on which they have laid their hand,  they will look forward to more expansion. Their scheme has been  laid  out in the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion'.' (Article 32) 'The HAMAS regards itself the  spearhead  and  the  vanguard  of  the circle of struggle against World Zionism... Islamic groups  all  over the Arab world should also do the same, since they are best  equipped for their future role in the fight against  the  warmongering  Jews.' (Article 32) 


(read more here about what the Mufti started, and how Islam thinks of Jews and the existence of Israel )



			THE COVENANT OF THE HAMAS - MAIN POINTS


----------



## Mindful

Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:

~ We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.
In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."

The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."

Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.






						Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
					

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.




					www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I'm talking about this guy, the founder of IslamoNazism and  Egyptian born Arafat's uncle and mentor.  Bet you didn't know Arafat'slasr name was Husseini before he changed it.  Your ignorance and bigotry is beginning to show.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler's Mufti
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.catholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini. This Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited whole divisions of fanatics to fight and kill in the name of extremism.
> 
> Revered in some circles today as one of the fathers of modern radical Islam, al-Husseini has been the subject of a number of modern studies. Scholars such as David Dalin, John Rothmann, Chuck Morse, and others have courageously brought al-Husseini’s actions to light. “Hitler’s Mufti,” as many have called him, had a direct hand in some of the darkest moments of the Holocaust, the slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians, and the formation of some of the most hate-filled generations of modern history. Al-Husseini is a testament to the way that evil finds evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Mutfi was not Arafat's uncle.. Different family.
> 
> The population of Palestine had already doubled with European refugees. The Mufti met with Hitler in Nov of 1941 for 10 minutes to ask to ask for a reprieve.. Could they go elsewhere?
> 
> Its become fashionable in recent years to justify what the Zionists  did in Palestine by blaming the Mufti for the Holocaust instead of Hitler.
> 
> Likewise, the Zionists didn't fight Hitler, but they are ever so keen to kill Palestinians and take their land.
> 
> Remember that the Jewish terror gangs were founded in the early 1920 and by 1948 they had killed over 500 British peacekeepers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You say such nonsense to make it sound sensible:
> 
> The Zionists were peaceful people attempting to re create, RE CREATE their Nation, THEIR nation ON their ancient Homeland.
> 
> The JEWISH, nobody else's HOMELAND.
> 
> Read, re read, understand that simple point.
> 
> The Arabs you are calling Palestinians, who ONLY started calling themselves Palestinians in 1964 after Arafat went to Moscow and concocted with the KGB this new Nationality, since the Jews did not use the word Palestine for their new Nation, because the word Palestine was used by the British, instead of the word Israel, or Judea, just to humiliate the Jews, just as the Romans had done in the 2nd Century when the Romans renamed the area Syria Palestine after the Bar Kochba revolts, to.......put an end to the Jewish revolts.
> 
> 
> The reason the Jews had to get weapons and protect themselves from 1920 to 1948 is because Al Husseini defeated the clans which wanted to live in peace with the Jews in the new recreated Jewish Nation after the Balfour Declaration.
> 
> From 1920 to 1948 the Jews were attacked mercilessly by Arabs incited by the Grand Mufti who would not accept, under any circumstance, a Jewish Sovereign Nation on once conquered Muslim land.
> 
> The Grand Mufti was raised on hatred for Jews, they were monkeys and pigs to him, as most Muslims are taught (read the Koran and other Muslim writings) and the Jews ought to be killed.
> 
> This is what too many Muslims believe in and live on and act on, as we continue to see Jews being attacked all over the world:
> 
> However, we hope that the words of the Prophet Muhammad will be fulfilled: Judgment Day will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Jews will hide behind the rocks and the trees, but the rocks and the trees will say: Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him — except for the gharqad tree, which is one of the trees of the Jews.”
> 
> In 2010, Mohammed Morsi referred to “Zionists” as “bloodsuckers” and “descendants of apes and pigs” in two filmed interviews. He was elected to be the president of Egypt two years later as a candidate backed by the Muslim Brotherhood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egyptian minister quotes Koran verse on killing Jews
> 
> 
> In an interview last month, Talaat Mohamed Afifi Salem said Judgment Day will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is Hamas, as a continuation of what the Grand Mufti started:
> 
> Anti-Semitic Incitement: ------------------------ 'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees,  and  the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.' (Article 7) 'The enemies have  been  scheming  for  a  long  time  ...  and  have accumulated huge and influential material wealth. With  their  money, they took control of the world media... With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the globe... They  stood  behind  the French  Revolution,  the  Communist  Revolution  and  most   of   the revolutions we hear about... With  their  money  they  formed  secret organizations - such as the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs and the Lions  - which are spreading around the world, in order to  destroy  societies and carry out Zionist interests... They stood behind World War I  ... and formed the League of Nations through which they  could  rule  the world. They were behind World War II, through which  they  made  huge financial gains... There is no war going  on  anywhere  without  them having their finger in it.' (Article 22) 'Zionism scheming has no end, and after Palestine,  they  will  covet expansion from the Nile  to  the  Euphrates  River.  When  they  have finished digesting the area on which they have laid their hand,  they will look forward to more expansion. Their scheme has been  laid  out in the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion'.' (Article 32) 'The HAMAS regards itself the  spearhead  and  the  vanguard  of  the circle of struggle against World Zionism... Islamic groups  all  over the Arab world should also do the same, since they are best  equipped for their future role in the fight against  the  warmongering  Jews.' (Article 32)
> 
> 
> (read more here about what the Mufti started, and how Islam thinks of Jews and the existence of Israel )
> 
> 
> 
> THE COVENANT OF THE HAMAS - MAIN POINTS
Click to expand...


Israel helped found HAMAS as a foil against the PLO. Muslims and Christians with Sabeel tried to stop it.

Demonizing the Mufti is a lame justification for theft and ethnic cleansing.

Palestine was never inhabited just by Jews. You start with a lie ..

Zionism is as pernicious as any other ISM..  Obviously the Jews suffered horribly .. and they feel justified in making Palestinian Muslims and Christians pay for what Hitler did to them. That means they are damaged.


----------



## surada

Mindful said:


> Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
> 
> ~ We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.
> In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."
> 
> The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."
> 
> Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org



There's some truth in that Palestine was a province of Syria 500 years before the birth of Christ. .. and the people who lived there .. Muslim, Christian or Jew were not referred to as Syrians.. They were called Palestinians.. See references in Shakespeare and Chaucer.


----------



## Mindful

surada said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
> 
> ~ We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.
> In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."
> 
> The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."
> 
> Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's some truth in that Palestine was a province of Syria 500 years before the birth of Christ. .. and the people who lived there .. Muslim, Christian or Jew were not referred to as Syrians.. They were called Palestinians.. See references in Shakespeare and Chaucer.
Click to expand...


Thanks for nothing

Don’t know why you bothered.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I'm talking about this guy, the founder of IslamoNazism and  Egyptian born Arafat's uncle and mentor.  Bet you didn't know Arafat'slasr name was Husseini before he changed it.  Your ignorance and bigotry is beginning to show.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler's Mufti
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.catholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini. This Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited whole divisions of fanatics to fight and kill in the name of extremism.
> 
> Revered in some circles today as one of the fathers of modern radical Islam, al-Husseini has been the subject of a number of modern studies. Scholars such as David Dalin, John Rothmann, Chuck Morse, and others have courageously brought al-Husseini’s actions to light. “Hitler’s Mufti,” as many have called him, had a direct hand in some of the darkest moments of the Holocaust, the slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians, and the formation of some of the most hate-filled generations of modern history. Al-Husseini is a testament to the way that evil finds evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Mutfi was not Arafat's uncle.. Different family.
> 
> The population of Palestine had already doubled with European refugees. The Mufti met with Hitler in Nov of 1941 for 10 minutes to ask to ask for a reprieve.. Could they go elsewhere?
> 
> Its become fashionable in recent years to justify what the Zionists  did in Palestine by blaming the Mufti for the Holocaust instead of Hitler.
> 
> Likewise, the Zionists didn't fight Hitler, but they are ever so keen to kill Palestinians and take their land.
> 
> Remember that the Jewish terror gangs were founded in the early 1920 and by 1948 they had killed over 500 British peacekeepers.
Click to expand...

Part 2

The terrorist Jews you are talking about were met with British betrayal since 1920.

1) Gaza was ethnically cleansed of Jews for the first time in history by the British, as the British would not deal with the Arabs.  Jews were only allowed to return to that area after 1967.

2) Riots started against the Jews by the Grand Mufti in 1921 because Jews wanted to "seat" by the Wailing wall

3) 1922 saw the British give 78% of the Mandate for the recreation of the Jewish Nation to a foreign entity, against the agreement the British signed.  
The Hashemite clan only came to TranJordan because they were run out of Arabia by the Saudi clan.

Was it fair to give 78% of the Jewish homeland to non Jews?  Please answer.

4) 1925 The Hashemites expel all the Jews from their ancient homeland of TransJordan.  Again, first time there would be no Jews living in TransJordan.
The Hashemites, descendants of Mohammad, do exactly what he had done in the 7th century in Arabia.
No Jews allowed to live on that land again.

5)  1936-1939

Violence erupted in Palestine in April 1936. In that month, six prominent Arab leaders overcame their rivalries and joined forces to protest Zionist advances in Palestine. The Arab High Command, as the group was known, was led by the Mufti, Haj Amin al-Husseini, and represented Arab interests in Palestine until 1948.

The Arab High Command began their protest by calling for a general strike of Arab workers and a boycott of Jewish products. These actions swiftly escalated into terrorist attacks against the Jews and the British. This first stage of the “Arab Revolt” lasted until November 1936. The second stage began in September 1937, shortly after the Peel Commissionrecommended the partition of Palestine. In this second phase, clashes with the British forces became much more severe, as did the attacks on Jewish settlements.

By 1936, the increase in Jewish immigration and land acquisition, the growing power of Haj Amin al-Husseini, and general Arab frustration at the continuation of European rule, radicalized increasing numbers of Palestinian Arabs. Thus, in April 1936, an Arab attack on a Jewish bus led to a series of incidents that escalated into a major Palestinian rebellion. An Arab Higher Committee (AHC), a loose coalition of recently formed Arab political parties, was created. It declared a national strike in support of three basic demands: cessation of Jewish immigration, an end to all further land sales to the Jews, and the establishment of an Arab national government.





__





						The Arab Revolt
					

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.




					www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
				





6)  How would you have behaved if the British had again betrayed their written  word to you and cut out immigration of Jews to their homeland?

In France and other European countries in WWII, this would have been called Resistance.  You and others may call it terrorism.  

The British and the Arabs against re creating the Jewish Nation, put instead Jews, the French, the Italian, the Danes being confronted with a betrayal like that.
What would you call it if it were not Jews fighting for their homeland?

The *White Paper of 1939*[note 1] was a policy paper issued by the British government, led by Neville Chamberlain, in response to the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine.[2] After its formal approval in the House of Commons on 23 May 1939,[3][note 2] it acted as the governing policy for Mandatory Palestine from 1939 to the 1948 British departure. After the war, the Mandate was referred to the United Nations.[4]

The policy, first drafted in March 1939, was prepared by the British government unilaterally as a result of the failure of the Arab-Zionist London Conference.[5]The paper called for the establishment of a Jewish national home in an independent Palestinian state within 10 years, rejecting the Peel Commission's idea of partitioning Palestine. It also limited Jewish immigration to 75,000 for five years and ruled that further immigration would then be determined by the Arab majority (section II). Jews were restricted from buying Arab land in all but 5% of the Mandate (section III).

The proposal did not meet the political demands proposed by Arab representatives during the London Conference and was officially rejected by the representatives of Palestine Arab parties, who were acting under the influence of Haj Amin Effendi al-Husseini, but the more moderate Arab opinion that was represented by the National Defence Party was prepared to accept the White Paper.[6]

Zionist groups in Palestine immediately rejected the White Paper and led a campaign of attacks on government property that lasted for several months. On 18 May, a Jewish general strike was called.[7]


----------



## surada

Mindful said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
> 
> ~ We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.
> In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."
> 
> The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."
> 
> Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's some truth in that Palestine was a province of Syria 500 years before the birth of Christ. .. and the people who lived there .. Muslim, Christian or Jew were not referred to as Syrians.. They were called Palestinians.. See references in Shakespeare and Chaucer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for nothing
> 
> Don’t know why you bothered.
Click to expand...


The European refugees were not satisfied with the land they were given.. They wanted more. Even in 1950 Chaim Weismann tried to get ARAMCO and Saudi Arabia to take in the rest of the Palestinians. The plan was to forcibly deport ALL of them ..saying they could work for TAPLINE, but that would have meant taking jobs from Saudis in a country that was still poor. By 1948 Israel was a top reciever of US foreign aid... KSA never was on the dole.

The crime of the European Zionists is NOT that they desperately needed a place to go.. Their crime is the cruel and ruthless way they treated the locals from the beginning.

They were all socialists and Bolshevics so maybe that explains what they did. Its beyond me.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
> 
> ~ We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.
> In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."
> 
> The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."
> 
> Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's some truth in that Palestine was a province of Syria 500 years before the birth of Christ. .. and the people who lived there .. Muslim, Christian or Jew were not referred to as Syrians.. They were called Palestinians.. See references in Shakespeare and Chaucer.
Click to expand...

No one was called a Palestinian before the British Mandate for Palestine.

They continued to be Jews, Greeks, and all the other people who stayed on that land.

Shakespeare and Chaucer wrote way after the Romans put Syria and the Province of Judea together and called it Syria Palestine to put an end to the Jewish revolts.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I'm talking about this guy, the founder of IslamoNazism and  Egyptian born Arafat's uncle and mentor.  Bet you didn't know Arafat'slasr name was Husseini before he changed it.  Your ignorance and bigotry is beginning to show.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler's Mufti
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.catholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini. This Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited whole divisions of fanatics to fight and kill in the name of extremism.
> 
> Revered in some circles today as one of the fathers of modern radical Islam, al-Husseini has been the subject of a number of modern studies. Scholars such as David Dalin, John Rothmann, Chuck Morse, and others have courageously brought al-Husseini’s actions to light. “Hitler’s Mufti,” as many have called him, had a direct hand in some of the darkest moments of the Holocaust, the slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians, and the formation of some of the most hate-filled generations of modern history. Al-Husseini is a testament to the way that evil finds evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Mutfi was not Arafat's uncle.. Different family.
> 
> The population of Palestine had already doubled with European refugees. The Mufti met with Hitler in Nov of 1941 for 10 minutes to ask to ask for a reprieve.. Could they go elsewhere?
> 
> Its become fashionable in recent years to justify what the Zionists  did in Palestine by blaming the Mufti for the Holocaust instead of Hitler.
> 
> Likewise, the Zionists didn't fight Hitler, but they are ever so keen to kill Palestinians and take their land.
> 
> Remember that the Jewish terror gangs were founded in the early 1920 and by 1948 they had killed over 500 British peacekeepers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Part 2
> 
> The terrorist Jews you are talking about were met with British betrayal since 1920.
> 
> 1) Gaza was ethnically cleansed of Jews for the first time in history by the British, as the British would not deal with the Arabs.  Jews were only allowed to return to that area after 1967.
> 
> 2) Riots started against the Jews by the Grand Mufti in 1921 because Jews wanted to "seat" by the Wailing wall
> 
> 3) 1922 saw the British give 78% of the Mandate for the recreation of the Jewish Nation to a foreign entity, against the agreement the British signed.
> The Hashemite clan only came to TranJordan because they were run out of Arabia by the Saudi clan.
> 
> Was it fair to give 78% of the Jewish homeland to non Jews?  Please answer.
> 
> 4) 1925 The Hashemites expel all the Jews from their ancient homeland of TransJordan.  Again, first time there would be no Jews living in TransJordan.
> The Hashemites, descendants of Mohammad, do exactly what he had done in the 7th century in Arabia.
> No Jews allowed to live on that land again.
> 
> 5)  1936-1939
> 
> Violence erupted in Palestine in April 1936. In that month, six prominent Arab leaders overcame their rivalries and joined forces to protest Zionist advances in Palestine. The Arab High Command, as the group was known, was led by the Mufti, Haj Amin al-Husseini, and represented Arab interests in Palestine until 1948.
> 
> The Arab High Command began their protest by calling for a general strike of Arab workers and a boycott of Jewish products. These actions swiftly escalated into terrorist attacks against the Jews and the British. This first stage of the “Arab Revolt” lasted until November 1936. The second stage began in September 1937, shortly after the Peel Commissionrecommended the partition of Palestine. In this second phase, clashes with the British forces became much more severe, as did the attacks on Jewish settlements.
> 
> By 1936, the increase in Jewish immigration and land acquisition, the growing power of Haj Amin al-Husseini, and general Arab frustration at the continuation of European rule, radicalized increasing numbers of Palestinian Arabs. Thus, in April 1936, an Arab attack on a Jewish bus led to a series of incidents that escalated into a major Palestinian rebellion. An Arab Higher Committee (AHC), a loose coalition of recently formed Arab political parties, was created. It declared a national strike in support of three basic demands: cessation of Jewish immigration, an end to all further land sales to the Jews, and the establishment of an Arab national government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Revolt
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6)  How would you have behaved if the British had again betrayed their written  word to you and cut out immigration of Jews to their homeland?
> 
> In France and other European countries in WWII, this would have been called Resistance.  You and others may call it terrorism.
> 
> The British and the Arabs against re creating the Jewish Nation, put instead Jews, the French, the Italian, the Danes being confronted with a betrayal like that.
> What would you call it if it were not Jews fighting for their homeland?
> 
> The *White Paper of 1939*[note 1] was a policy paper issued by the British government, led by Neville Chamberlain, in response to the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine.[2] After its formal approval in the House of Commons on 23 May 1939,[3][note 2] it acted as the governing policy for Mandatory Palestine from 1939 to the 1948 British departure. After the war, the Mandate was referred to the United Nations.[4]
> 
> The policy, first drafted in March 1939, was prepared by the British government unilaterally as a result of the failure of the Arab-Zionist London Conference.[5]The paper called for the establishment of a Jewish national home in an independent Palestinian state within 10 years, rejecting the Peel Commission's idea of partitioning Palestine. It also limited Jewish immigration to 75,000 for five years and ruled that further immigration would then be determined by the Arab majority (section II). Jews were restricted from buying Arab land in all but 5% of the Mandate (section III).
> 
> The proposal did not meet the political demands proposed by Arab representatives during the London Conference and was officially rejected by the representatives of Palestine Arab parties, who were acting under the influence of Haj Amin Effendi al-Husseini, but the more moderate Arab opinion that was represented by the National Defence Party was prepared to accept the White Paper.[6]
> 
> Zionist groups in Palestine immediately rejected the White Paper and led a campaign of attacks on government property that lasted for several months. On 18 May, a Jewish general strike was called.[7]
Click to expand...


Well, yes. The Europeans wanted ALL of Palestine including Jordan.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
> 
> ~ We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.
> In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."
> 
> The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."
> 
> Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's some truth in that Palestine was a province of Syria 500 years before the birth of Christ. .. and the people who lived there .. Muslim, Christian or Jew were not referred to as Syrians.. They were called Palestinians.. See references in Shakespeare and Chaucer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for nothing
> 
> Don’t know why you bothered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The European refugees were not satisfied with the land they were given.. They wanted more. Even in 1950 Chaim Weismann tried to get ARAMCO and Saudi Arabia to take in the rest of the Palestinians. The plan was to forcibly deport ALL of them ..saying they could work for TAPLINE, but that would have meant taking jobs from Saudis in a country that was still poor. By 1948 Israel was a top reciever of US foreign aid... KSA never was on the dole.
> 
> The crime of the European Zionists is NOT that they desperately needed a place to go.. Their crime is the cruel and ruthless way they treated the locals from the beginning.
> 
> They were all socialists and Bolshevics so maybe that explains what they did. Its beyond me.
Click to expand...

Give me the link.  Is it by a historian or a anti Israel source?

By the way, from the" beginning" of Jewish immigration in the late 1900s with Zionism (which was a continuation of endless Jewish immigration back to their homeland through the centuries)  the Jews gave jobs to Arabs and others.

Those quotes do not mention the endless Arab attacks which had to lead the Jews to defend themselves from those attacks. 

So easy to call Jews socialists and Bolshevics to excuse the Muslim hatred the Arabs learned on a daily basis from their teachings of the Koran.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
> 
> ~ We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.
> In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."
> 
> The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."
> 
> Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's some truth in that Palestine was a province of Syria 500 years before the birth of Christ. .. and the people who lived there .. Muslim, Christian or Jew were not referred to as Syrians.. They were called Palestinians.. See references in Shakespeare and Chaucer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one was called a Palestinian before the British Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> They continued to be Jews, Greeks, and all the other people who stayed on that land.
> 
> Shakespeare and Chaucer wrote way after the Romans put Syria and the Province of Judea together and called it Syria Palestine to put an end to the Jewish revolts.
Click to expand...


Herodotus called it Syria-Palestine 500 years before Christ.

The European Jews had been so abused that they had NO regard for the rights of others.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I'm talking about this guy, the founder of IslamoNazism and  Egyptian born Arafat's uncle and mentor.  Bet you didn't know Arafat'slasr name was Husseini before he changed it.  Your ignorance and bigotry is beginning to show.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler's Mufti
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.catholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini. This Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited whole divisions of fanatics to fight and kill in the name of extremism.
> 
> Revered in some circles today as one of the fathers of modern radical Islam, al-Husseini has been the subject of a number of modern studies. Scholars such as David Dalin, John Rothmann, Chuck Morse, and others have courageously brought al-Husseini’s actions to light. “Hitler’s Mufti,” as many have called him, had a direct hand in some of the darkest moments of the Holocaust, the slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians, and the formation of some of the most hate-filled generations of modern history. Al-Husseini is a testament to the way that evil finds evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Mutfi was not Arafat's uncle.. Different family.
> 
> The population of Palestine had already doubled with European refugees. The Mufti met with Hitler in Nov of 1941 for 10 minutes to ask to ask for a reprieve.. Could they go elsewhere?
> 
> Its become fashionable in recent years to justify what the Zionists  did in Palestine by blaming the Mufti for the Holocaust instead of Hitler.
> 
> Likewise, the Zionists didn't fight Hitler, but they are ever so keen to kill Palestinians and take their land.
> 
> Remember that the Jewish terror gangs were founded in the early 1920 and by 1948 they had killed over 500 British peacekeepers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Part 2
> 
> The terrorist Jews you are talking about were met with British betrayal since 1920.
> 
> 1) Gaza was ethnically cleansed of Jews for the first time in history by the British, as the British would not deal with the Arabs.  Jews were only allowed to return to that area after 1967.
> 
> 2) Riots started against the Jews by the Grand Mufti in 1921 because Jews wanted to "seat" by the Wailing wall
> 
> 3) 1922 saw the British give 78% of the Mandate for the recreation of the Jewish Nation to a foreign entity, against the agreement the British signed.
> The Hashemite clan only came to TranJordan because they were run out of Arabia by the Saudi clan.
> 
> Was it fair to give 78% of the Jewish homeland to non Jews?  Please answer.
> 
> 4) 1925 The Hashemites expel all the Jews from their ancient homeland of TransJordan.  Again, first time there would be no Jews living in TransJordan.
> The Hashemites, descendants of Mohammad, do exactly what he had done in the 7th century in Arabia.
> No Jews allowed to live on that land again.
> 
> 5)  1936-1939
> 
> Violence erupted in Palestine in April 1936. In that month, six prominent Arab leaders overcame their rivalries and joined forces to protest Zionist advances in Palestine. The Arab High Command, as the group was known, was led by the Mufti, Haj Amin al-Husseini, and represented Arab interests in Palestine until 1948.
> 
> The Arab High Command began their protest by calling for a general strike of Arab workers and a boycott of Jewish products. These actions swiftly escalated into terrorist attacks against the Jews and the British. This first stage of the “Arab Revolt” lasted until November 1936. The second stage began in September 1937, shortly after the Peel Commissionrecommended the partition of Palestine. In this second phase, clashes with the British forces became much more severe, as did the attacks on Jewish settlements.
> 
> By 1936, the increase in Jewish immigration and land acquisition, the growing power of Haj Amin al-Husseini, and general Arab frustration at the continuation of European rule, radicalized increasing numbers of Palestinian Arabs. Thus, in April 1936, an Arab attack on a Jewish bus led to a series of incidents that escalated into a major Palestinian rebellion. An Arab Higher Committee (AHC), a loose coalition of recently formed Arab political parties, was created. It declared a national strike in support of three basic demands: cessation of Jewish immigration, an end to all further land sales to the Jews, and the establishment of an Arab national government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Revolt
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6)  How would you have behaved if the British had again betrayed their written  word to you and cut out immigration of Jews to their homeland?
> 
> In France and other European countries in WWII, this would have been called Resistance.  You and others may call it terrorism.
> 
> The British and the Arabs against re creating the Jewish Nation, put instead Jews, the French, the Italian, the Danes being confronted with a betrayal like that.
> What would you call it if it were not Jews fighting for their homeland?
> 
> The *White Paper of 1939*[note 1] was a policy paper issued by the British government, led by Neville Chamberlain, in response to the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine.[2] After its formal approval in the House of Commons on 23 May 1939,[3][note 2] it acted as the governing policy for Mandatory Palestine from 1939 to the 1948 British departure. After the war, the Mandate was referred to the United Nations.[4]
> 
> The policy, first drafted in March 1939, was prepared by the British government unilaterally as a result of the failure of the Arab-Zionist London Conference.[5]The paper called for the establishment of a Jewish national home in an independent Palestinian state within 10 years, rejecting the Peel Commission's idea of partitioning Palestine. It also limited Jewish immigration to 75,000 for five years and ruled that further immigration would then be determined by the Arab majority (section II). Jews were restricted from buying Arab land in all but 5% of the Mandate (section III).
> 
> The proposal did not meet the political demands proposed by Arab representatives during the London Conference and was officially rejected by the representatives of Palestine Arab parties, who were acting under the influence of Haj Amin Effendi al-Husseini, but the more moderate Arab opinion that was represented by the National Defence Party was prepared to accept the White Paper.[6]
> 
> Zionist groups in Palestine immediately rejected the White Paper and led a campaign of attacks on government property that lasted for several months. On 18 May, a Jewish general strike was called.[7]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, yes. The Europeans wanted ALL of Palestine including Jordan.
Click to expand...

It was their homeland.  They had a right to it, as per the Balfour Declaration. 

No non Jew was going to be expelled from it once the Nation was recreated.

Which is not what happened when the Hashemites got TranJordan, 78%o of Jewish homeland and expelled all the Jews from there.

WHO was expelling whom?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
> 
> ~ We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.
> In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."
> 
> The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."
> 
> Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's some truth in that Palestine was a province of Syria 500 years before the birth of Christ. .. and the people who lived there .. Muslim, Christian or Jew were not referred to as Syrians.. They were called Palestinians.. See references in Shakespeare and Chaucer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one was called a Palestinian before the British Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> They continued to be Jews, Greeks, and all the other people who stayed on that land.
> 
> Shakespeare and Chaucer wrote way after the Romans put Syria and the Province of Judea together and called it Syria Palestine to put an end to the Jewish revolts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Herodotus called it Syria-Palestine 500 years before Christ.
> 
> The European Jews had been so abused that they had NO regard for the rights of others.
Click to expand...

Garbage you keep reading from Jew hatred sources.

Jews were never like that, they are not that way now.

The Muslims and Christians continue to project how Islam and Christianity view the Jews and you are fully believing every word against the Jews as a people.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
> 
> ~ We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.
> In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."
> 
> The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."
> 
> Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's some truth in that Palestine was a province of Syria 500 years before the birth of Christ. .. and the people who lived there .. Muslim, Christian or Jew were not referred to as Syrians.. They were called Palestinians.. See references in Shakespeare and Chaucer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for nothing
> 
> Don’t know why you bothered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The European refugees were not satisfied with the land they were given.. They wanted more. Even in 1950 Chaim Weismann tried to get ARAMCO and Saudi Arabia to take in the rest of the Palestinians. The plan was to forcibly deport ALL of them ..saying they could work for TAPLINE, but that would have meant taking jobs from Saudis in a country that was still poor. By 1948 Israel was a top reciever of US foreign aid... KSA never was on the dole.
> 
> The crime of the European Zionists is NOT that they desperately needed a place to go.. Their crime is the cruel and ruthless way they treated the locals from the beginning.
> 
> They were all socialists and Bolshevics so maybe that explains what they did. Its beyond me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give me the link.  Is it by a historian or a anti Israel source?
> 
> By the way, from the" beginning" of Jewish immigration in the late 1900s with Zionism (which was a continuation of endless Jewish immigration back to their homeland through the centuries)  the Jews gave jobs to Arabs and others.
> 
> Those quotes do not mention the endless Arab attacks which had to lead the Jews to defend themselves from those attacks.
> 
> So easy to call Jews socialists and Bolshevics to excuse the Muslim hatred the Arabs learned on a daily basis from their teachings of the Koran.
Click to expand...


Some Jews arrived in the 1880s, but 6,000 of them left because they were poor farmers. 

A German Christian sect  arrived about the same time and developed very successful dairy farms. 40 years later they were forced out and their farms confiscated.

Some of the Zionists were no better than criminals.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
> 
> ~ We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.
> In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."
> 
> The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."
> 
> Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's some truth in that Palestine was a province of Syria 500 years before the birth of Christ. .. and the people who lived there .. Muslim, Christian or Jew were not referred to as Syrians.. They were called Palestinians.. See references in Shakespeare and Chaucer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for nothing
> 
> Don’t know why you bothered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The European refugees were not satisfied with the land they were given.. They wanted more. Even in 1950 Chaim Weismann tried to get ARAMCO and Saudi Arabia to take in the rest of the Palestinians. The plan was to forcibly deport ALL of them ..saying they could work for TAPLINE, but that would have meant taking jobs from Saudis in a country that was still poor. By 1948 Israel was a top reciever of US foreign aid... KSA never was on the dole.
> 
> The crime of the European Zionists is NOT that they desperately needed a place to go.. Their crime is the cruel and ruthless way they treated the locals from the beginning.
> 
> They were all socialists and Bolshevics so maybe that explains what they did. Its beyond me.
Click to expand...

Again, the Jews were given the Mandate for Palestine, which included TranJordan and Gaza. That was 100%.

1920 they ended up MINUS Gaza.
1925 they ended up MINUS 78% of it

Where do you see MORE land that the Jews wanted and ended up not getting?


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## Mindful

Sixties Fan 

I’m not responding to that troll anymore.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
> 
> ~ We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.
> In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."
> 
> The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."
> 
> Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's some truth in that Palestine was a province of Syria 500 years before the birth of Christ. .. and the people who lived there .. Muslim, Christian or Jew were not referred to as Syrians.. They were called Palestinians.. See references in Shakespeare and Chaucer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for nothing
> 
> Don’t know why you bothered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The European refugees were not satisfied with the land they were given.. They wanted more. Even in 1950 Chaim Weismann tried to get ARAMCO and Saudi Arabia to take in the rest of the Palestinians. The plan was to forcibly deport ALL of them ..saying they could work for TAPLINE, but that would have meant taking jobs from Saudis in a country that was still poor. By 1948 Israel was a top reciever of US foreign aid... KSA never was on the dole.
> 
> The crime of the European Zionists is NOT that they desperately needed a place to go.. Their crime is the cruel and ruthless way they treated the locals from the beginning.
> 
> They were all socialists and Bolshevics so maybe that explains what they did. Its beyond me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give me the link.  Is it by a historian or a anti Israel source?
> 
> By the way, from the" beginning" of Jewish immigration in the late 1900s with Zionism (which was a continuation of endless Jewish immigration back to their homeland through the centuries)  the Jews gave jobs to Arabs and others.
> 
> Those quotes do not mention the endless Arab attacks which had to lead the Jews to defend themselves from those attacks.
> 
> So easy to call Jews socialists and Bolshevics to excuse the Muslim hatred the Arabs learned on a daily basis from their teachings of the Koran.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some Jews arrived in the 1880s, but 6,000 of them left because they were poor farmers.
> 
> A German Christian sect  arrived about the same time and developed very successful dairy farms. 40 years later they were forced out and their farms confiscated.
> 
> Some of the Zionists were no better than criminals.
Click to expand...

Give me a link to those 6000 Jews leaving because they were poor. 

German farmers had their land confiscated by whom?
You are accusing the Jews?
Link

Are you going to give me your Jew hating sources or are you too afraid that they really are Jew hating sources?

I want the links to your sources, or clearly you do know that they are Jew hating sources and only invent things to create hatred toward the Jews.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Mindful said:
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> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I'm talking about this guy, the founder of IslamoNazism and  Egyptian born Arafat's uncle and mentor.  Bet you didn't know Arafat'slasr name was Husseini before he changed it.  Your ignorance and bigotry is beginning to show.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler's Mufti
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.catholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini. This Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited whole divisions of fanatics to fight and kill in the name of extremism.
> 
> Revered in some circles today as one of the fathers of modern radical Islam, al-Husseini has been the subject of a number of modern studies. Scholars such as David Dalin, John Rothmann, Chuck Morse, and others have courageously brought al-Husseini’s actions to light. “Hitler’s Mufti,” as many have called him, had a direct hand in some of the darkest moments of the Holocaust, the slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians, and the formation of some of the most hate-filled generations of modern history. Al-Husseini is a testament to the way that evil finds evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Mutfi was not Arafat's uncle.. Different family.
> 
> The population of Palestine had already doubled with European refugees. The Mufti met with Hitler in Nov of 1941 for 10 minutes to ask to ask for a reprieve.. Could they go elsewhere?
> 
> Its become fashionable in recent years to justify what the Zionists  did in Palestine by blaming the Mufti for the Holocaust instead of Hitler.
> 
> Likewise, the Zionists didn't fight Hitler, but they are ever so keen to kill Palestinians and take their land.
> 
> Remember that the Jewish terror gangs were founded in the early 1920 and by 1948 they had killed over 500 British peacekeepers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Part 2
> 
> The terrorist Jews you are talking about were met with British betrayal since 1920.
> 
> 1) Gaza was ethnically cleansed of Jews for the first time in history by the British, as the British would not deal with the Arabs.  Jews were only allowed to return to that area after 1967.
> 
> 2) Riots started against the Jews by the Grand Mufti in 1921 because Jews wanted to "seat" by the Wailing wall
> 
> 3) 1922 saw the British give 78% of the Mandate for the recreation of the Jewish Nation to a foreign entity, against the agreement the British signed.
> The Hashemite clan only came to TranJordan because they were run out of Arabia by the Saudi clan.
> 
> Was it fair to give 78% of the Jewish homeland to non Jews?  Please answer.
> 
> 4) 1925 The Hashemites expel all the Jews from their ancient homeland of TransJordan.  Again, first time there would be no Jews living in TransJordan.
> The Hashemites, descendants of Mohammad, do exactly what he had done in the 7th century in Arabia.
> No Jews allowed to live on that land again.
> 
> 5)  1936-1939
> 
> Violence erupted in Palestine in April 1936. In that month, six prominent Arab leaders overcame their rivalries and joined forces to protest Zionist advances in Palestine. The Arab High Command, as the group was known, was led by the Mufti, Haj Amin al-Husseini, and represented Arab interests in Palestine until 1948.
> 
> The Arab High Command began their protest by calling for a general strike of Arab workers and a boycott of Jewish products. These actions swiftly escalated into terrorist attacks against the Jews and the British. This first stage of the “Arab Revolt” lasted until November 1936. The second stage began in September 1937, shortly after the Peel Commissionrecommended the partition of Palestine. In this second phase, clashes with the British forces became much more severe, as did the attacks on Jewish settlements.
> 
> By 1936, the increase in Jewish immigration and land acquisition, the growing power of Haj Amin al-Husseini, and general Arab frustration at the continuation of European rule, radicalized increasing numbers of Palestinian Arabs. Thus, in April 1936, an Arab attack on a Jewish bus led to a series of incidents that escalated into a major Palestinian rebellion. An Arab Higher Committee (AHC), a loose coalition of recently formed Arab political parties, was created. It declared a national strike in support of three basic demands: cessation of Jewish immigration, an end to all further land sales to the Jews, and the establishment of an Arab national government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Revolt
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6)  How would you have behaved if the British had again betrayed their written  word to you and cut out immigration of Jews to their homeland?
> 
> In France and other European countries in WWII, this would have been called Resistance.  You and others may call it terrorism.
> 
> The British and the Arabs against re creating the Jewish Nation, put instead Jews, the French, the Italian, the Danes being confronted with a betrayal like that.
> What would you call it if it were not Jews fighting for their homeland?
> 
> The *White Paper of 1939*[note 1] was a policy paper issued by the British government, led by Neville Chamberlain, in response to the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine.[2] After its formal approval in the House of Commons on 23 May 1939,[3][note 2] it acted as the governing policy for Mandatory Palestine from 1939 to the 1948 British departure. After the war, the Mandate was referred to the United Nations.[4]
> 
> The policy, first drafted in March 1939, was prepared by the British government unilaterally as a result of the failure of the Arab-Zionist London Conference.[5]The paper called for the establishment of a Jewish national home in an independent Palestinian state within 10 years, rejecting the Peel Commission's idea of partitioning Palestine. It also limited Jewish immigration to 75,000 for five years and ruled that further immigration would then be determined by the Arab majority (section II). Jews were restricted from buying Arab land in all but 5% of the Mandate (section III).
> 
> The proposal did not meet the political demands proposed by Arab representatives during the London Conference and was officially rejected by the representatives of Palestine Arab parties, who were acting under the influence of Haj Amin Effendi al-Husseini, but the more moderate Arab opinion that was represented by the National Defence Party was prepared to accept the White Paper.[6]
> 
> Zionist groups in Palestine immediately rejected the White Paper and led a campaign of attacks on government property that lasted for several months. On 18 May, a Jewish general strike was called.[7]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, yes. The Europeans wanted ALL of Palestine including Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was their homeland.  They had a right to it, as per the Balfour Declaration.
> 
> No non Jew was going to be expelled from it once the Nation was recreated.
> 
> Which is not what happened when the Hashemites got TranJordan, 78%o of Jewish homeland and expelled all the Jews from there.
> 
> WHO was expelling whom?
Click to expand...


Palestine was also the homeland of other people .. non Jews.. and always had been.

Look at an old map of the Decapolis cities and Scythiopolis. Look at the territories of the Canaanite tribes.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
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> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I'm talking about this guy, the founder of IslamoNazism and  Egyptian born Arafat's uncle and mentor.  Bet you didn't know Arafat'slasr name was Husseini before he changed it.  Your ignorance and bigotry is beginning to show.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler's Mufti
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.catholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini. This Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited whole divisions of fanatics to fight and kill in the name of extremism.
> 
> Revered in some circles today as one of the fathers of modern radical Islam, al-Husseini has been the subject of a number of modern studies. Scholars such as David Dalin, John Rothmann, Chuck Morse, and others have courageously brought al-Husseini’s actions to light. “Hitler’s Mufti,” as many have called him, had a direct hand in some of the darkest moments of the Holocaust, the slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians, and the formation of some of the most hate-filled generations of modern history. Al-Husseini is a testament to the way that evil finds evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Mutfi was not Arafat's uncle.. Different family.
> 
> The population of Palestine had already doubled with European refugees. The Mufti met with Hitler in Nov of 1941 for 10 minutes to ask to ask for a reprieve.. Could they go elsewhere?
> 
> Its become fashionable in recent years to justify what the Zionists  did in Palestine by blaming the Mufti for the Holocaust instead of Hitler.
> 
> Likewise, the Zionists didn't fight Hitler, but they are ever so keen to kill Palestinians and take their land.
> 
> Remember that the Jewish terror gangs were founded in the early 1920 and by 1948 they had killed over 500 British peacekeepers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Part 2
> 
> The terrorist Jews you are talking about were met with British betrayal since 1920.
> 
> 1) Gaza was ethnically cleansed of Jews for the first time in history by the British, as the British would not deal with the Arabs.  Jews were only allowed to return to that area after 1967.
> 
> 2) Riots started against the Jews by the Grand Mufti in 1921 because Jews wanted to "seat" by the Wailing wall
> 
> 3) 1922 saw the British give 78% of the Mandate for the recreation of the Jewish Nation to a foreign entity, against the agreement the British signed.
> The Hashemite clan only came to TranJordan because they were run out of Arabia by the Saudi clan.
> 
> Was it fair to give 78% of the Jewish homeland to non Jews?  Please answer.
> 
> 4) 1925 The Hashemites expel all the Jews from their ancient homeland of TransJordan.  Again, first time there would be no Jews living in TransJordan.
> The Hashemites, descendants of Mohammad, do exactly what he had done in the 7th century in Arabia.
> No Jews allowed to live on that land again.
> 
> 5)  1936-1939
> 
> Violence erupted in Palestine in April 1936. In that month, six prominent Arab leaders overcame their rivalries and joined forces to protest Zionist advances in Palestine. The Arab High Command, as the group was known, was led by the Mufti, Haj Amin al-Husseini, and represented Arab interests in Palestine until 1948.
> 
> The Arab High Command began their protest by calling for a general strike of Arab workers and a boycott of Jewish products. These actions swiftly escalated into terrorist attacks against the Jews and the British. This first stage of the “Arab Revolt” lasted until November 1936. The second stage began in September 1937, shortly after the Peel Commissionrecommended the partition of Palestine. In this second phase, clashes with the British forces became much more severe, as did the attacks on Jewish settlements.
> 
> By 1936, the increase in Jewish immigration and land acquisition, the growing power of Haj Amin al-Husseini, and general Arab frustration at the continuation of European rule, radicalized increasing numbers of Palestinian Arabs. Thus, in April 1936, an Arab attack on a Jewish bus led to a series of incidents that escalated into a major Palestinian rebellion. An Arab Higher Committee (AHC), a loose coalition of recently formed Arab political parties, was created. It declared a national strike in support of three basic demands: cessation of Jewish immigration, an end to all further land sales to the Jews, and the establishment of an Arab national government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Revolt
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6)  How would you have behaved if the British had again betrayed their written  word to you and cut out immigration of Jews to their homeland?
> 
> In France and other European countries in WWII, this would have been called Resistance.  You and others may call it terrorism.
> 
> The British and the Arabs against re creating the Jewish Nation, put instead Jews, the French, the Italian, the Danes being confronted with a betrayal like that.
> What would you call it if it were not Jews fighting for their homeland?
> 
> The *White Paper of 1939*[note 1] was a policy paper issued by the British government, led by Neville Chamberlain, in response to the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine.[2] After its formal approval in the House of Commons on 23 May 1939,[3][note 2] it acted as the governing policy for Mandatory Palestine from 1939 to the 1948 British departure. After the war, the Mandate was referred to the United Nations.[4]
> 
> The policy, first drafted in March 1939, was prepared by the British government unilaterally as a result of the failure of the Arab-Zionist London Conference.[5]The paper called for the establishment of a Jewish national home in an independent Palestinian state within 10 years, rejecting the Peel Commission's idea of partitioning Palestine. It also limited Jewish immigration to 75,000 for five years and ruled that further immigration would then be determined by the Arab majority (section II). Jews were restricted from buying Arab land in all but 5% of the Mandate (section III).
> 
> The proposal did not meet the political demands proposed by Arab representatives during the London Conference and was officially rejected by the representatives of Palestine Arab parties, who were acting under the influence of Haj Amin Effendi al-Husseini, but the more moderate Arab opinion that was represented by the National Defence Party was prepared to accept the White Paper.[6]
> 
> Zionist groups in Palestine immediately rejected the White Paper and led a campaign of attacks on government property that lasted for several months. On 18 May, a Jewish general strike was called.[7]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, yes. The Europeans wanted ALL of Palestine including Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was their homeland.  They had a right to it, as per the Balfour Declaration.
> 
> No non Jew was going to be expelled from it once the Nation was recreated.
> 
> Which is not what happened when the Hashemites got TranJordan, 78%o of Jewish homeland and expelled all the Jews from there.
> 
> WHO was expelling whom?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was also the homeland of other people .. non Jews.. and always had been.
> 
> Look at an old map of the Decapolis cities and Scythiopolis. Look at the territories of the Canaanite tribes.
Click to expand...

And as usual, you run away from answering any of the questions or points I have made, most unfortunately being stuck in your endless education from Jew hating sources, be it Christian or Muslim source.

Fudge, dismiss, change the subject.

Where are the answers to my posts, links to all your allegations?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Mindful said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> 
> Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
> 
> ~ We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.
> In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."
> 
> The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."
> 
> Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's some truth in that Palestine was a province of Syria 500 years before the birth of Christ. .. and the people who lived there .. Muslim, Christian or Jew were not referred to as Syrians.. They were called Palestinians.. See references in Shakespeare and Chaucer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for nothing
> 
> Don’t know why you bothered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The European refugees were not satisfied with the land they were given.. They wanted more. Even in 1950 Chaim Weismann tried to get ARAMCO and Saudi Arabia to take in the rest of the Palestinians. The plan was to forcibly deport ALL of them ..saying they could work for TAPLINE, but that would have meant taking jobs from Saudis in a country that was still poor. By 1948 Israel was a top reciever of US foreign aid... KSA never was on the dole.
> 
> The crime of the European Zionists is NOT that they desperately needed a place to go.. Their crime is the cruel and ruthless way they treated the locals from the beginning.
> 
> They were all socialists and Bolshevics so maybe that explains what they did. Its beyond me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give me the link.  Is it by a historian or a anti Israel source?
> 
> By the way, from the" beginning" of Jewish immigration in the late 1900s with Zionism (which was a continuation of endless Jewish immigration back to their homeland through the centuries)  the Jews gave jobs to Arabs and others.
> 
> Those quotes do not mention the endless Arab attacks which had to lead the Jews to defend themselves from those attacks.
> 
> So easy to call Jews socialists and Bolshevics to excuse the Muslim hatred the Arabs learned on a daily basis from their teachings of the Koran.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some Jews arrived in the 1880s, but 6,000 of them left because they were poor farmers.
> 
> A German Christian sect  arrived about the same time and developed very successful dairy farms. 40 years later they were forced out and their farms confiscated.
> 
> Some of the Zionists were no better than criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give me a link to those 6000 Jews leaving because they were poor.
> 
> German farmers had their land confiscated by whom?
> You are accusing the Jews?
> Link
> 
> Are you going to give me your Jew hating sources or are you too afraid that they really are Jew hating sources?
> 
> I want the links to your sources, or clearly you do know that they are Jew hating sources and only invent things to create hatred toward the Jews.
Click to expand...


I have NEVER used Jew hating sources. Hate has no place in this discussion. Muslims and Jews lived together  quite peacefully for nearly 2000 years..

The untold story of the Jews who left Mandatory Palestine ...

The Untold Story of the Jews Who Left Mandatory Palestine In the three decades before Israel’s establishment, some 60,000 Jews left the country for financial or ideological reasons. A new book reveals a dark corner of Zionist history, including the forced expulsion of ‘burdensome’ Jewish …

Estimated Reading Time: 9 mins










						A dark corner of Zionist history: The untold story of the Jews who left pre-state Israel
					

***




					www.haaretz.com


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I'm talking about this guy, the founder of IslamoNazism and  Egyptian born Arafat's uncle and mentor.  Bet you didn't know Arafat'slasr name was Husseini before he changed it.  Your ignorance and bigotry is beginning to show.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler's Mufti
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.catholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini. This Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited whole divisions of fanatics to fight and kill in the name of extremism.
> 
> Revered in some circles today as one of the fathers of modern radical Islam, al-Husseini has been the subject of a number of modern studies. Scholars such as David Dalin, John Rothmann, Chuck Morse, and others have courageously brought al-Husseini’s actions to light. “Hitler’s Mufti,” as many have called him, had a direct hand in some of the darkest moments of the Holocaust, the slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians, and the formation of some of the most hate-filled generations of modern history. Al-Husseini is a testament to the way that evil finds evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Mutfi was not Arafat's uncle.. Different family.
> 
> The population of Palestine had already doubled with European refugees. The Mufti met with Hitler in Nov of 1941 for 10 minutes to ask to ask for a reprieve.. Could they go elsewhere?
> 
> Its become fashionable in recent years to justify what the Zionists  did in Palestine by blaming the Mufti for the Holocaust instead of Hitler.
> 
> Likewise, the Zionists didn't fight Hitler, but they are ever so keen to kill Palestinians and take their land.
> 
> Remember that the Jewish terror gangs were founded in the early 1920 and by 1948 they had killed over 500 British peacekeepers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Part 2
> 
> The terrorist Jews you are talking about were met with British betrayal since 1920.
> 
> 1) Gaza was ethnically cleansed of Jews for the first time in history by the British, as the British would not deal with the Arabs.  Jews were only allowed to return to that area after 1967.
> 
> 2) Riots started against the Jews by the Grand Mufti in 1921 because Jews wanted to "seat" by the Wailing wall
> 
> 3) 1922 saw the British give 78% of the Mandate for the recreation of the Jewish Nation to a foreign entity, against the agreement the British signed.
> The Hashemite clan only came to TranJordan because they were run out of Arabia by the Saudi clan.
> 
> Was it fair to give 78% of the Jewish homeland to non Jews?  Please answer.
> 
> 4) 1925 The Hashemites expel all the Jews from their ancient homeland of TransJordan.  Again, first time there would be no Jews living in TransJordan.
> The Hashemites, descendants of Mohammad, do exactly what he had done in the 7th century in Arabia.
> No Jews allowed to live on that land again.
> 
> 5)  1936-1939
> 
> Violence erupted in Palestine in April 1936. In that month, six prominent Arab leaders overcame their rivalries and joined forces to protest Zionist advances in Palestine. The Arab High Command, as the group was known, was led by the Mufti, Haj Amin al-Husseini, and represented Arab interests in Palestine until 1948.
> 
> The Arab High Command began their protest by calling for a general strike of Arab workers and a boycott of Jewish products. These actions swiftly escalated into terrorist attacks against the Jews and the British. This first stage of the “Arab Revolt” lasted until November 1936. The second stage began in September 1937, shortly after the Peel Commissionrecommended the partition of Palestine. In this second phase, clashes with the British forces became much more severe, as did the attacks on Jewish settlements.
> 
> By 1936, the increase in Jewish immigration and land acquisition, the growing power of Haj Amin al-Husseini, and general Arab frustration at the continuation of European rule, radicalized increasing numbers of Palestinian Arabs. Thus, in April 1936, an Arab attack on a Jewish bus led to a series of incidents that escalated into a major Palestinian rebellion. An Arab Higher Committee (AHC), a loose coalition of recently formed Arab political parties, was created. It declared a national strike in support of three basic demands: cessation of Jewish immigration, an end to all further land sales to the Jews, and the establishment of an Arab national government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Revolt
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6)  How would you have behaved if the British had again betrayed their written  word to you and cut out immigration of Jews to their homeland?
> 
> In France and other European countries in WWII, this would have been called Resistance.  You and others may call it terrorism.
> 
> The British and the Arabs against re creating the Jewish Nation, put instead Jews, the French, the Italian, the Danes being confronted with a betrayal like that.
> What would you call it if it were not Jews fighting for their homeland?
> 
> The *White Paper of 1939*[note 1] was a policy paper issued by the British government, led by Neville Chamberlain, in response to the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine.[2] After its formal approval in the House of Commons on 23 May 1939,[3][note 2] it acted as the governing policy for Mandatory Palestine from 1939 to the 1948 British departure. After the war, the Mandate was referred to the United Nations.[4]
> 
> The policy, first drafted in March 1939, was prepared by the British government unilaterally as a result of the failure of the Arab-Zionist London Conference.[5]The paper called for the establishment of a Jewish national home in an independent Palestinian state within 10 years, rejecting the Peel Commission's idea of partitioning Palestine. It also limited Jewish immigration to 75,000 for five years and ruled that further immigration would then be determined by the Arab majority (section II). Jews were restricted from buying Arab land in all but 5% of the Mandate (section III).
> 
> The proposal did not meet the political demands proposed by Arab representatives during the London Conference and was officially rejected by the representatives of Palestine Arab parties, who were acting under the influence of Haj Amin Effendi al-Husseini, but the more moderate Arab opinion that was represented by the National Defence Party was prepared to accept the White Paper.[6]
> 
> Zionist groups in Palestine immediately rejected the White Paper and led a campaign of attacks on government property that lasted for several months. On 18 May, a Jewish general strike was called.[7]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, yes. The Europeans wanted ALL of Palestine including Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was their homeland.  They had a right to it, as per the Balfour Declaration.
> 
> No non Jew was going to be expelled from it once the Nation was recreated.
> 
> Which is not what happened when the Hashemites got TranJordan, 78%o of Jewish homeland and expelled all the Jews from there.
> 
> WHO was expelling whom?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was also the homeland of other people .. non Jews.. and always had been.
> 
> Look at an old map of the Decapolis cities and Scythiopolis. Look at the territories of the Canaanite tribes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And as usual, you run away from answering any of the questions or points I have made, most unfortunately being stuck in your endless education from Jew hating sources, be it Christian or Muslim source.
> 
> Fudge, dismiss, change the subject.
> 
> Where are the answers to my posts, links to all your allegations?
Click to expand...


I don't need links. I have been following this story since the early 1950s when I used to listen to BBC and Voice of America on the shortwave. Fortunately, I got to make 3 two weeks trips to the Holy Land before the 1967 war.









						A dark corner of Zionist history: The untold story of the Jews who left pre-state Israel
					

***




					www.haaretz.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
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> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> surada said:
> 
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> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
> 
> ~ We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.
> In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."
> 
> The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."
> 
> Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's some truth in that Palestine was a province of Syria 500 years before the birth of Christ. .. and the people who lived there .. Muslim, Christian or Jew were not referred to as Syrians.. They were called Palestinians.. See references in Shakespeare and Chaucer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for nothing
> 
> Don’t know why you bothered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The European refugees were not satisfied with the land they were given.. They wanted more. Even in 1950 Chaim Weismann tried to get ARAMCO and Saudi Arabia to take in the rest of the Palestinians. The plan was to forcibly deport ALL of them ..saying they could work for TAPLINE, but that would have meant taking jobs from Saudis in a country that was still poor. By 1948 Israel was a top reciever of US foreign aid... KSA never was on the dole.
> 
> The crime of the European Zionists is NOT that they desperately needed a place to go.. Their crime is the cruel and ruthless way they treated the locals from the beginning.
> 
> They were all socialists and Bolshevics so maybe that explains what they did. Its beyond me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give me the link.  Is it by a historian or a anti Israel source?
> 
> By the way, from the" beginning" of Jewish immigration in the late 1900s with Zionism (which was a continuation of endless Jewish immigration back to their homeland through the centuries)  the Jews gave jobs to Arabs and others.
> 
> Those quotes do not mention the endless Arab attacks which had to lead the Jews to defend themselves from those attacks.
> 
> So easy to call Jews socialists and Bolshevics to excuse the Muslim hatred the Arabs learned on a daily basis from their teachings of the Koran.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some Jews arrived in the 1880s, but 6,000 of them left because they were poor farmers.
> 
> A German Christian sect  arrived about the same time and developed very successful dairy farms. 40 years later they were forced out and their farms confiscated.
> 
> Some of the Zionists were no better than criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give me a link to those 6000 Jews leaving because they were poor.
> 
> German farmers had their land confiscated by whom?
> You are accusing the Jews?
> Link
> 
> Are you going to give me your Jew hating sources or are you too afraid that they really are Jew hating sources?
> 
> I want the links to your sources, or clearly you do know that they are Jew hating sources and only invent things to create hatred toward the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have NEVER used Jew hating sources. Hate has no place in this discussion. Muslims and Jews lived together  quite peacefully for nearly 2000 years..
> 
> The untold story of the Jews who left Mandatory Palestine ...
> 
> The Untold Story of the Jews Who Left Mandatory Palestine In the three decades before Israel’s establishment, some 60,000 Jews left the country for financial or ideological reasons. A new book reveals a dark corner of Zionist history, including the forced expulsion of ‘burdensome’ Jewish …
> 
> Estimated Reading Time: 9 mins
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A dark corner of Zionist history: The untold story of the Jews who left pre-state Israel
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
Click to expand...

You simply do not know what Jew hating sources are as you fully believe them as true history.

Jews lived as Dhimmis in Muslim areas, being attacked every now and then, just as they were in Europe.
There fewer attacks on Jews in the Middle East, but there was no peace from the Muslims towards the Jews.

I posted to you what the Koran states against Jews, and you do not think that Muslims are following those writings about Jews being apes and pigs and killing Jews behind the trees.

HAAARETZ, where your source comes from .....is the most anti Israel newspaper in Israel.  One hardly finds any articles or opinions which are pro Israel by pro Israel people.

BBC has always been anti Israel.  Great source for news about Israel and how Israel was created.

New York Times has always been against Israel.  Another great source of news about the founding of Israel and modern Israel, if you ever read that newspaper.


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> 
> Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
> 
> ~ We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.
> In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."
> 
> The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."
> 
> Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's some truth in that Palestine was a province of Syria 500 years before the birth of Christ. .. and the people who lived there .. Muslim, Christian or Jew were not referred to as Syrians.. They were called Palestinians.. See references in Shakespeare and Chaucer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for nothing
> 
> Don’t know why you bothered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The European refugees were not satisfied with the land they were given.. They wanted more. Even in 1950 Chaim Weismann tried to get ARAMCO and Saudi Arabia to take in the rest of the Palestinians. The plan was to forcibly deport ALL of them ..saying they could work for TAPLINE, but that would have meant taking jobs from Saudis in a country that was still poor. By 1948 Israel was a top reciever of US foreign aid... KSA never was on the dole.
> 
> The crime of the European Zionists is NOT that they desperately needed a place to go.. Their crime is the cruel and ruthless way they treated the locals from the beginning.
> 
> They were all socialists and Bolshevics so maybe that explains what they did. Its beyond me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give me the link.  Is it by a historian or a anti Israel source?
> 
> By the way, from the" beginning" of Jewish immigration in the late 1900s with Zionism (which was a continuation of endless Jewish immigration back to their homeland through the centuries)  the Jews gave jobs to Arabs and others.
> 
> Those quotes do not mention the endless Arab attacks which had to lead the Jews to defend themselves from those attacks.
> 
> So easy to call Jews socialists and Bolshevics to excuse the Muslim hatred the Arabs learned on a daily basis from their teachings of the Koran.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some Jews arrived in the 1880s, but 6,000 of them left because they were poor farmers.
> 
> A German Christian sect  arrived about the same time and developed very successful dairy farms. 40 years later they were forced out and their farms confiscated.
> 
> Some of the Zionists were no better than criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give me a link to those 6000 Jews leaving because they were poor.
> 
> German farmers had their land confiscated by whom?
> You are accusing the Jews?
> Link
> 
> Are you going to give me your Jew hating sources or are you too afraid that they really are Jew hating sources?
> 
> I want the links to your sources, or clearly you do know that they are Jew hating sources and only invent things to create hatred toward the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have NEVER used Jew hating sources. Hate has no place in this discussion. Muslims and Jews lived together  quite peacefully for nearly 2000 years..
> 
> The untold story of the Jews who left Mandatory Palestine ...
> 
> The Untold Story of the Jews Who Left Mandatory Palestine In the three decades before Israel’s establishment, some 60,000 Jews left the country for financial or ideological reasons. A new book reveals a dark corner of Zionist history, including the forced expulsion of ‘burdensome’ Jewish …
> 
> Estimated Reading Time: 9 mins
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A dark corner of Zionist history: The untold story of the Jews who left pre-state Israel
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You simply do not know what Jew hating sources are as you fully believe them as true history.
> 
> Jews lived as Dhimmis in Muslim areas, being attacked every now and then, just as they were in Europe.
> There fewer attacks on Jews in the Middle East, but there was no peace from the Muslims towards the Jews.
> 
> I posted to you what the Koran states against Jews, and you do not think that Muslims are following those writings about Jews being apes and pigs and killing Jews behind the trees.
> 
> HAAARETZ, where your source comes from .....is the most anti Israel newspaper in Israel.  One hardly finds any articles or opinions which are pro Israel by pro Israel people.
> 
> BBC has always been anti Israel.  Great source for news about Israel and how Israel was created.
> 
> New York Times has always been against Israel.  Another great source of news about the founding of Israel and modern Israel, if you ever read that newspaper.
Click to expand...


There haven't been any Dhimmis in a couple hundred years.. 

When it did exist the non Muslims paid less tax with the Jizya.. and it was only paid by able bodied men of military age who didn't want to serve in defense of the community.

Read the Palestine Papers, Avalon Project, Yale.  Read the facts without commentary.

The outcome would have been so different if they had acted decently when they immigrated to Palestine. You'd think they would know that after the way they were treated in Europe and Russia.

Tragic all the way around.... and the Arab countries lost their Jewish communities in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973.. Everybody loses.. especially the Palestinian Christians and Muslims.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


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> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I'm talking about this guy, the founder of IslamoNazism and  Egyptian born Arafat's uncle and mentor.  Bet you didn't know Arafat'slasr name was Husseini before he changed it.  Your ignorance and bigotry is beginning to show.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler's Mufti
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.catholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini. This Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited whole divisions of fanatics to fight and kill in the name of extremism.
> 
> Revered in some circles today as one of the fathers of modern radical Islam, al-Husseini has been the subject of a number of modern studies. Scholars such as David Dalin, John Rothmann, Chuck Morse, and others have courageously brought al-Husseini’s actions to light. “Hitler’s Mufti,” as many have called him, had a direct hand in some of the darkest moments of the Holocaust, the slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians, and the formation of some of the most hate-filled generations of modern history. Al-Husseini is a testament to the way that evil finds evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Mutfi was not Arafat's uncle.. Different family.
> 
> The population of Palestine had already doubled with European refugees. The Mufti met with Hitler in Nov of 1941 for 10 minutes to ask to ask for a reprieve.. Could they go elsewhere?
> 
> Its become fashionable in recent years to justify what the Zionists  did in Palestine by blaming the Mufti for the Holocaust instead of Hitler.
> 
> Likewise, the Zionists didn't fight Hitler, but they are ever so keen to kill Palestinians and take their land.
> 
> Remember that the Jewish terror gangs were founded in the early 1920 and by 1948 they had killed over 500 British peacekeepers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Part 2
> 
> The terrorist Jews you are talking about were met with British betrayal since 1920.
> 
> 1) Gaza was ethnically cleansed of Jews for the first time in history by the British, as the British would not deal with the Arabs.  Jews were only allowed to return to that area after 1967.
> 
> 2) Riots started against the Jews by the Grand Mufti in 1921 because Jews wanted to "seat" by the Wailing wall
> 
> 3) 1922 saw the British give 78% of the Mandate for the recreation of the Jewish Nation to a foreign entity, against the agreement the British signed.
> The Hashemite clan only came to TranJordan because they were run out of Arabia by the Saudi clan.
> 
> Was it fair to give 78% of the Jewish homeland to non Jews?  Please answer.
> 
> 4) 1925 The Hashemites expel all the Jews from their ancient homeland of TransJordan.  Again, first time there would be no Jews living in TransJordan.
> The Hashemites, descendants of Mohammad, do exactly what he had done in the 7th century in Arabia.
> No Jews allowed to live on that land again.
> 
> 5)  1936-1939
> 
> Violence erupted in Palestine in April 1936. In that month, six prominent Arab leaders overcame their rivalries and joined forces to protest Zionist advances in Palestine. The Arab High Command, as the group was known, was led by the Mufti, Haj Amin al-Husseini, and represented Arab interests in Palestine until 1948.
> 
> The Arab High Command began their protest by calling for a general strike of Arab workers and a boycott of Jewish products. These actions swiftly escalated into terrorist attacks against the Jews and the British. This first stage of the “Arab Revolt” lasted until November 1936. The second stage began in September 1937, shortly after the Peel Commissionrecommended the partition of Palestine. In this second phase, clashes with the British forces became much more severe, as did the attacks on Jewish settlements.
> 
> By 1936, the increase in Jewish immigration and land acquisition, the growing power of Haj Amin al-Husseini, and general Arab frustration at the continuation of European rule, radicalized increasing numbers of Palestinian Arabs. Thus, in April 1936, an Arab attack on a Jewish bus led to a series of incidents that escalated into a major Palestinian rebellion. An Arab Higher Committee (AHC), a loose coalition of recently formed Arab political parties, was created. It declared a national strike in support of three basic demands: cessation of Jewish immigration, an end to all further land sales to the Jews, and the establishment of an Arab national government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Revolt
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6)  How would you have behaved if the British had again betrayed their written  word to you and cut out immigration of Jews to their homeland?
> 
> In France and other European countries in WWII, this would have been called Resistance.  You and others may call it terrorism.
> 
> The British and the Arabs against re creating the Jewish Nation, put instead Jews, the French, the Italian, the Danes being confronted with a betrayal like that.
> What would you call it if it were not Jews fighting for their homeland?
> 
> The *White Paper of 1939*[note 1] was a policy paper issued by the British government, led by Neville Chamberlain, in response to the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine.[2] After its formal approval in the House of Commons on 23 May 1939,[3][note 2] it acted as the governing policy for Mandatory Palestine from 1939 to the 1948 British departure. After the war, the Mandate was referred to the United Nations.[4]
> 
> The policy, first drafted in March 1939, was prepared by the British government unilaterally as a result of the failure of the Arab-Zionist London Conference.[5]The paper called for the establishment of a Jewish national home in an independent Palestinian state within 10 years, rejecting the Peel Commission's idea of partitioning Palestine. It also limited Jewish immigration to 75,000 for five years and ruled that further immigration would then be determined by the Arab majority (section II). Jews were restricted from buying Arab land in all but 5% of the Mandate (section III).
> 
> The proposal did not meet the political demands proposed by Arab representatives during the London Conference and was officially rejected by the representatives of Palestine Arab parties, who were acting under the influence of Haj Amin Effendi al-Husseini, but the more moderate Arab opinion that was represented by the National Defence Party was prepared to accept the White Paper.[6]
> 
> Zionist groups in Palestine immediately rejected the White Paper and led a campaign of attacks on government property that lasted for several months. On 18 May, a Jewish general strike was called.[7]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, yes. The Europeans wanted ALL of Palestine including Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was their homeland.  They had a right to it, as per the Balfour Declaration.
> 
> No non Jew was going to be expelled from it once the Nation was recreated.
> 
> Which is not what happened when the Hashemites got TranJordan, 78%o of Jewish homeland and expelled all the Jews from there.
> 
> WHO was expelling whom?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was also the homeland of other people .. non Jews.. and always had been.
> 
> Look at an old map of the Decapolis cities and Scythiopolis. Look at the territories of the Canaanite tribes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And as usual, you run away from answering any of the questions or points I have made, most unfortunately being stuck in your endless education from Jew hating sources, be it Christian or Muslim source.
> 
> Fudge, dismiss, change the subject.
> 
> Where are the answers to my posts, links to all your allegations?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't need links. I have been following this story since the early 1950s when I used to listen to BBC and Voice of America on the shortwave. Fortunately, I got to make 3 two weeks trips to the Holy Land before the 1967 war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A dark corner of Zionist history: The untold story of the Jews who left pre-state Israel
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
Click to expand...

You use links all the time to change the history of pre Israel and post Israel.  At least what is written in those links.

You are not aware that you are believing one side of the story told by two religions bent on hating Jews and keeping them in dhimmitude for all eternity.

In your trips to the Holy land before 1967 where did you go and what did you witness?  Did you visit Judea and Samaria where all the Jews had been expelled from by the Hashemites?
Or Gaza where there were no Jews, either and it was under Egyptian rule?

Did you visit East Jerusalem where the Jordanians were shooting at Jews from their positions above the Jews?

What acts against Arabs by Jews did you witness there?


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


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> Mindful said:
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> 
> Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
> 
> ~ We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.
> In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."
> 
> The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."
> 
> Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's some truth in that Palestine was a province of Syria 500 years before the birth of Christ. .. and the people who lived there .. Muslim, Christian or Jew were not referred to as Syrians.. They were called Palestinians.. See references in Shakespeare and Chaucer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for nothing
> 
> Don’t know why you bothered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The European refugees were not satisfied with the land they were given.. They wanted more. Even in 1950 Chaim Weismann tried to get ARAMCO and Saudi Arabia to take in the rest of the Palestinians. The plan was to forcibly deport ALL of them ..saying they could work for TAPLINE, but that would have meant taking jobs from Saudis in a country that was still poor. By 1948 Israel was a top reciever of US foreign aid... KSA never was on the dole.
> 
> The crime of the European Zionists is NOT that they desperately needed a place to go.. Their crime is the cruel and ruthless way they treated the locals from the beginning.
> 
> They were all socialists and Bolshevics so maybe that explains what they did. Its beyond me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give me the link.  Is it by a historian or a anti Israel source?
> 
> By the way, from the" beginning" of Jewish immigration in the late 1900s with Zionism (which was a continuation of endless Jewish immigration back to their homeland through the centuries)  the Jews gave jobs to Arabs and others.
> 
> Those quotes do not mention the endless Arab attacks which had to lead the Jews to defend themselves from those attacks.
> 
> So easy to call Jews socialists and Bolshevics to excuse the Muslim hatred the Arabs learned on a daily basis from their teachings of the Koran.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some Jews arrived in the 1880s, but 6,000 of them left because they were poor farmers.
> 
> A German Christian sect  arrived about the same time and developed very successful dairy farms. 40 years later they were forced out and their farms confiscated.
> 
> Some of the Zionists were no better than criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give me a link to those 6000 Jews leaving because they were poor.
> 
> German farmers had their land confiscated by whom?
> You are accusing the Jews?
> Link
> 
> Are you going to give me your Jew hating sources or are you too afraid that they really are Jew hating sources?
> 
> I want the links to your sources, or clearly you do know that they are Jew hating sources and only invent things to create hatred toward the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have NEVER used Jew hating sources. Hate has no place in this discussion. Muslims and Jews lived together  quite peacefully for nearly 2000 years..
> 
> The untold story of the Jews who left Mandatory Palestine ...
> 
> The Untold Story of the Jews Who Left Mandatory Palestine In the three decades before Israel’s establishment, some 60,000 Jews left the country for financial or ideological reasons. A new book reveals a dark corner of Zionist history, including the forced expulsion of ‘burdensome’ Jewish …
> 
> Estimated Reading Time: 9 mins
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A dark corner of Zionist history: The untold story of the Jews who left pre-state Israel
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You simply do not know what Jew hating sources are as you fully believe them as true history.
> 
> Jews lived as Dhimmis in Muslim areas, being attacked every now and then, just as they were in Europe.
> There fewer attacks on Jews in the Middle East, but there was no peace from the Muslims towards the Jews.
> 
> I posted to you what the Koran states against Jews, and you do not think that Muslims are following those writings about Jews being apes and pigs and killing Jews behind the trees.
> 
> HAAARETZ, where your source comes from .....is the most anti Israel newspaper in Israel.  One hardly finds any articles or opinions which are pro Israel by pro Israel people.
> 
> BBC has always been anti Israel.  Great source for news about Israel and how Israel was created.
> 
> New York Times has always been against Israel.  Another great source of news about the founding of Israel and modern Israel, if you ever read that newspaper.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There haven't been any Dhimmis in a couple hundred years..
> 
> When it did exist the non Muslims paid less tax with the Jizya.. and it was only paid by able bodied men of military age who didn't want to serve in defense of the community.
> 
> Read the Palestine Papers, Avalon Project, Yale.  Read the facts without commentary.
> 
> The outcome would have been so different if they had acted decently when they immigrated to Palestine. You'd think they would know that after the way they were treated in Europe and Russia.
> 
> Tragic all the way around.... and the Arab countries lost their Jewish communities in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973.. Everybody loses.. especially the Palestinian Christians and Muslims.
Click to expand...

Again, you are getting information from sources which do not care about the truth. Do you know how the Jews in Iraq and other Arab controlled areas were treated until they were forced to leave from the 1950s on?

Palestine Papers and Yale are anti Jews, definitely anti Israel.

Which documents in the Avalon Project have you read?
Could you give me some links?

The Arab countries wanted their Jews out in order to destroy Israel.

Understand this, not all Muslims or Christians hate Jews
but too many have been educated in the Koran or the NT and believe every word of it, and some especially as they gain power in government, have acted against the jews on their lands.

You do not have any idea of the laws crated against Jews in Arab controlled areas and then countries, which eventually led to the Jews having to leave with basically nothing on their backs.

Everybody !!!!! loses?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Mindful said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> 
> Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
> 
> ~ We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.
> In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."
> 
> The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."
> 
> Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's some truth in that Palestine was a province of Syria 500 years before the birth of Christ. .. and the people who lived there .. Muslim, Christian or Jew were not referred to as Syrians.. They were called Palestinians.. See references in Shakespeare and Chaucer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for nothing
> 
> Don’t know why you bothered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The European refugees were not satisfied with the land they were given.. They wanted more. Even in 1950 Chaim Weismann tried to get ARAMCO and Saudi Arabia to take in the rest of the Palestinians. The plan was to forcibly deport ALL of them ..saying they could work for TAPLINE, but that would have meant taking jobs from Saudis in a country that was still poor. By 1948 Israel was a top reciever of US foreign aid... KSA never was on the dole.
> 
> The crime of the European Zionists is NOT that they desperately needed a place to go.. Their crime is the cruel and ruthless way they treated the locals from the beginning.
> 
> They were all socialists and Bolshevics so maybe that explains what they did. Its beyond me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give me the link.  Is it by a historian or a anti Israel source?
> 
> By the way, from the" beginning" of Jewish immigration in the late 1900s with Zionism (which was a continuation of endless Jewish immigration back to their homeland through the centuries)  the Jews gave jobs to Arabs and others.
> 
> Those quotes do not mention the endless Arab attacks which had to lead the Jews to defend themselves from those attacks.
> 
> So easy to call Jews socialists and Bolshevics to excuse the Muslim hatred the Arabs learned on a daily basis from their teachings of the Koran.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some Jews arrived in the 1880s, but 6,000 of them left because they were poor farmers.
> 
> A German Christian sect  arrived about the same time and developed very successful dairy farms. 40 years later they were forced out and their farms confiscated.
> 
> Some of the Zionists were no better than criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give me a link to those 6000 Jews leaving because they were poor.
> 
> German farmers had their land confiscated by whom?
> You are accusing the Jews?
> Link
> 
> Are you going to give me your Jew hating sources or are you too afraid that they really are Jew hating sources?
> 
> I want the links to your sources, or clearly you do know that they are Jew hating sources and only invent things to create hatred toward the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have NEVER used Jew hating sources. Hate has no place in this discussion. Muslims and Jews lived together  quite peacefully for nearly 2000 years..
> 
> The untold story of the Jews who left Mandatory Palestine ...
> 
> The Untold Story of the Jews Who Left Mandatory Palestine In the three decades before Israel’s establishment, some 60,000 Jews left the country for financial or ideological reasons. A new book reveals a dark corner of Zionist history, including the forced expulsion of ‘burdensome’ Jewish …
> 
> Estimated Reading Time: 9 mins
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A dark corner of Zionist history: The untold story of the Jews who left pre-state Israel
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You simply do not know what Jew hating sources are as you fully believe them as true history.
> 
> Jews lived as Dhimmis in Muslim areas, being attacked every now and then, just as they were in Europe.
> There fewer attacks on Jews in the Middle East, but there was no peace from the Muslims towards the Jews.
> 
> I posted to you what the Koran states against Jews, and you do not think that Muslims are following those writings about Jews being apes and pigs and killing Jews behind the trees.
> 
> HAAARETZ, where your source comes from .....is the most anti Israel newspaper in Israel.  One hardly finds any articles or opinions which are pro Israel by pro Israel people.
> 
> BBC has always been anti Israel.  Great source for news about Israel and how Israel was created.
> 
> New York Times has always been against Israel.  Another great source of news about the founding of Israel and modern Israel, if you ever read that newspaper.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There haven't been any Dhimmis in a couple hundred years..
> 
> When it did exist the non Muslims paid less tax with the Jizya.. and it was only paid by able bodied men of military age who didn't want to serve in defense of the community.
> 
> Read the Palestine Papers, Avalon Project, Yale.  Read the facts without commentary.
> 
> The outcome would have been so different if they had acted decently when they immigrated to Palestine. You'd think they would know that after the way they were treated in Europe and Russia.
> 
> Tragic all the way around.... and the Arab countries lost their Jewish communities in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973.. Everybody loses.. especially the Palestinian Christians and Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, you are getting information from sources which do not care about the truth. Do you know how the Jews in Iraq and other Arab controlled areas were treated until they were forced to leave from the 1950s on?
> 
> Palestine Papers and Yale are anti Jews, definitely anti Israel.
> 
> Which documents in the Avalon Project have you read?
> Could you give me some links?
> 
> The Arab countries wanted their Jews out in order to destroy Israel.
> 
> Understand this, not all Muslims or Christians hate Jews
> but too many have been educated in the Koran or the NT and believe every word of it, and some especially as they gain power in government, have acted against the jews on their lands.
> 
> You do not have any idea of the laws crated against Jews in Arab controlled areas and then countries, which eventually led to the Jews having to leave with basically nothing on their backs.
> 
> Everybody !!!!! loses?
Click to expand...



They weren't forced to leave.. That's just another Zionist lie. They trickled out over a period of 30 years.. and it was a loss to the Arab world.

There was a large group of women in Tripoli who supported the arts.. Muslim, Christian and Jew.. They'd meet for lunch. My mother belonged so I got to attend when I wasn't in the US in school.

I used to think I understood Jewish values.. I don't . Zionism is pernicious.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
> 
> ~ We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.
> In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."
> 
> The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."
> 
> Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's some truth in that Palestine was a province of Syria 500 years before the birth of Christ. .. and the people who lived there .. Muslim, Christian or Jew were not referred to as Syrians.. They were called Palestinians.. See references in Shakespeare and Chaucer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for nothing
> 
> Don’t know why you bothered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The European refugees were not satisfied with the land they were given.. They wanted more. Even in 1950 Chaim Weismann tried to get ARAMCO and Saudi Arabia to take in the rest of the Palestinians. The plan was to forcibly deport ALL of them ..saying they could work for TAPLINE, but that would have meant taking jobs from Saudis in a country that was still poor. By 1948 Israel was a top reciever of US foreign aid... KSA never was on the dole.
> 
> The crime of the European Zionists is NOT that they desperately needed a place to go.. Their crime is the cruel and ruthless way they treated the locals from the beginning.
> 
> They were all socialists and Bolshevics so maybe that explains what they did. Its beyond me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give me the link.  Is it by a historian or a anti Israel source?
> 
> By the way, from the" beginning" of Jewish immigration in the late 1900s with Zionism (which was a continuation of endless Jewish immigration back to their homeland through the centuries)  the Jews gave jobs to Arabs and others.
> 
> Those quotes do not mention the endless Arab attacks which had to lead the Jews to defend themselves from those attacks.
> 
> So easy to call Jews socialists and Bolshevics to excuse the Muslim hatred the Arabs learned on a daily basis from their teachings of the Koran.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some Jews arrived in the 1880s, but 6,000 of them left because they were poor farmers.
> 
> A German Christian sect  arrived about the same time and developed very successful dairy farms. 40 years later they were forced out and their farms confiscated.
> 
> Some of the Zionists were no better than criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give me a link to those 6000 Jews leaving because they were poor.
> 
> German farmers had their land confiscated by whom?
> You are accusing the Jews?
> Link
> 
> Are you going to give me your Jew hating sources or are you too afraid that they really are Jew hating sources?
> 
> I want the links to your sources, or clearly you do know that they are Jew hating sources and only invent things to create hatred toward the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have NEVER used Jew hating sources. Hate has no place in this discussion. Muslims and Jews lived together  quite peacefully for nearly 2000 years..
> 
> The untold story of the Jews who left Mandatory Palestine ...
> 
> The Untold Story of the Jews Who Left Mandatory Palestine In the three decades before Israel’s establishment, some 60,000 Jews left the country for financial or ideological reasons. A new book reveals a dark corner of Zionist history, including the forced expulsion of ‘burdensome’ Jewish …
> 
> Estimated Reading Time: 9 mins
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A dark corner of Zionist history: The untold story of the Jews who left pre-state Israel
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You simply do not know what Jew hating sources are as you fully believe them as true history.
> 
> Jews lived as Dhimmis in Muslim areas, being attacked every now and then, just as they were in Europe.
> There fewer attacks on Jews in the Middle East, but there was no peace from the Muslims towards the Jews.
> 
> I posted to you what the Koran states against Jews, and you do not think that Muslims are following those writings about Jews being apes and pigs and killing Jews behind the trees.
> 
> HAAARETZ, where your source comes from .....is the most anti Israel newspaper in Israel.  One hardly finds any articles or opinions which are pro Israel by pro Israel people.
> 
> BBC has always been anti Israel.  Great source for news about Israel and how Israel was created.
> 
> New York Times has always been against Israel.  Another great source of news about the founding of Israel and modern Israel, if you ever read that newspaper.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There haven't been any Dhimmis in a couple hundred years..
> 
> When it did exist the non Muslims paid less tax with the Jizya.. and it was only paid by able bodied men of military age who didn't want to serve in defense of the community.
> 
> Read the Palestine Papers, Avalon Project, Yale.  Read the facts without commentary.
> 
> The outcome would have been so different if they had acted decently when they immigrated to Palestine. You'd think they would know that after the way they were treated in Europe and Russia.
> 
> Tragic all the way around.... and the Arab countries lost their Jewish communities in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973.. Everybody loses.. especially the Palestinian Christians and Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, you are getting information from sources which do not care about the truth. Do you know how the Jews in Iraq and other Arab controlled areas were treated until they were forced to leave from the 1950s on?
> 
> Palestine Papers and Yale are anti Jews, definitely anti Israel.
> 
> Which documents in the Avalon Project have you read?
> Could you give me some links?
> 
> The Arab countries wanted their Jews out in order to destroy Israel.
> 
> Understand this, not all Muslims or Christians hate Jews
> but too many have been educated in the Koran or the NT and believe every word of it, and some especially as they gain power in government, have acted against the jews on their lands.
> 
> You do not have any idea of the laws crated against Jews in Arab controlled areas and then countries, which eventually led to the Jews having to leave with basically nothing on their backs.
> 
> Everybody !!!!! loses?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't forced to leave.. That's just another Zionist lie. They trickled out over a period of 30 years.. and it was a loss to the Arab world.
> 
> There was a large group of women in Tripoli who supported the arts.. Muslim, Christian and Jew.. They'd meet for lunch. My mother belonged so I got to attend when I wasn't in the US in school.
> 
> I used to think I understood Jewish values.. I don't . Zionism is pernicious.
Click to expand...

Read actual books on the experiences of Jews who lived in Muslim conquered lands.



Once all your rights are taken away, no schools, no businesses, in fear of being attacked all the time (look at the Fahrud in 1941), then tell me that they were not forced, even by fear, to leave.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The story of the expulsion of entire Jewish communities from Arab lands is an important part of modern Jewish history that profoundly affected the Jewish nation as a whole as well as the demographic composition of the Middle East and North Africa. This is a story that has to be told.

*Current research estimates that the number of Jews living in Arab countries and Iran totaled more than 850,000 at the time of Israel’s independence. Some scholars even think the number is closer to one million. In the North African region, 259,000 Jews fled from Morocco, 140,000 from Algeria, 100,000 from Tunisia, 75,000 from Egypt, and another 38,000 from Libya. In the Middle East, 135,000 Jews were exiled from Iraq, 55,000 from Yemen, 34,000 from Turkey, 20,000 from Lebanon and 18,000 from Syria. Iran forced out 25,000 Jews.* 

The following descriptions typify what Jews living in Arab countries and Iran went through in the 1940s and following Israel’s declaration of independence up to the second half of the 20th century.

(vide each Arab country online)



			https://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/Issues/Pages/Jewish-refugees-expelled-from-Arab-lands-and-from-Iran-29-November-2016.aspx


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## Roudy

surada said:


> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I'm talking about this guy, the founder of IslamoNazism and  Egyptian born Arafat's uncle and mentor.  Bet you didn't know Arafat'slasr name was Husseini before he changed it.  Your ignorance and bigotry is beginning to show.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler's Mufti
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.catholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini. This Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited whole divisions of fanatics to fight and kill in the name of extremism.
> 
> Revered in some circles today as one of the fathers of modern radical Islam, al-Husseini has been the subject of a number of modern studies. Scholars such as David Dalin, John Rothmann, Chuck Morse, and others have courageously brought al-Husseini’s actions to light. “Hitler’s Mufti,” as many have called him, had a direct hand in some of the darkest moments of the Holocaust, the slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians, and the formation of some of the most hate-filled generations of modern history. Al-Husseini is a testament to the way that evil finds evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Mutfi was not Arafat's uncle.. Different family.
> 
> The population of Palestine had already doubled with European refugees. The Mufti met with Hitler in Nov of 1941 for 10 minutes to ask to ask for a reprieve.. Could they go elsewhere?
> 
> Its become fashionable in recent years to justify what the Zionists  did in Palestine by blaming the Mufti for the Holocaust instead of Hitler.
> 
> Likewise, the Zionists didn't fight Hitler, but they are ever so keen to kill Palestinians and take their land.
> 
> Remember that the Jewish terror gangs were founded in the early 1920 and by 1948 they had killed over 500 British peacekeepers.
Click to expand...

Once again, you got it upside down.  The Mufti was indeed Hitler's uncle and mentor and was designated as a Nazi agent even by the US Dept. of state. The Jewish armed militias  were formed for protection as a result of Muftis terrorist animals committing massacres such as the Hebron masacre  on Jewish communities.


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## Roudy

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
> 
> ~ We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.
> In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."
> 
> The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."
> 
> Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's some truth in that Palestine was a province of Syria 500 years before the birth of Christ. .. and the people who lived there .. Muslim, Christian or Jew were not referred to as Syrians.. They were called Palestinians.. See references in Shakespeare and Chaucer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one was called a Palestinian before the British Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> They continued to be Jews, Greeks, and all the other people who stayed on that land.
> 
> Shakespeare and Chaucer wrote way after the Romans put Syria and the Province of Judea together and called it Syria Palestine to put an end to the Jewish revolts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Herodotus called it Syria-Palestine 500 years before Christ.
> 
> The European Jews had been so abused that they had NO regard for the rights of others.
Click to expand...

You just admitted a few posts ago that Palestine was invented circa 1950's.  There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people during the prior 500 years of the Ottoman Empire control, before the Ottomans collapsed after World War One.  You need to keep up with your own lies and BS propaganda.


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## Mindful

Roudy said:


> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people



Arafat invented them.


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> 
> Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
> 
> ~ We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.
> In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."
> 
> The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."
> 
> Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's some truth in that Palestine was a province of Syria 500 years before the birth of Christ. .. and the people who lived there .. Muslim, Christian or Jew were not referred to as Syrians.. They were called Palestinians.. See references in Shakespeare and Chaucer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for nothing
> 
> Don’t know why you bothered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The European refugees were not satisfied with the land they were given.. They wanted more. Even in 1950 Chaim Weismann tried to get ARAMCO and Saudi Arabia to take in the rest of the Palestinians. The plan was to forcibly deport ALL of them ..saying they could work for TAPLINE, but that would have meant taking jobs from Saudis in a country that was still poor. By 1948 Israel was a top reciever of US foreign aid... KSA never was on the dole.
> 
> The crime of the European Zionists is NOT that they desperately needed a place to go.. Their crime is the cruel and ruthless way they treated the locals from the beginning.
> 
> They were all socialists and Bolshevics so maybe that explains what they did. Its beyond me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give me the link.  Is it by a historian or a anti Israel source?
> 
> By the way, from the" beginning" of Jewish immigration in the late 1900s with Zionism (which was a continuation of endless Jewish immigration back to their homeland through the centuries)  the Jews gave jobs to Arabs and others.
> 
> Those quotes do not mention the endless Arab attacks which had to lead the Jews to defend themselves from those attacks.
> 
> So easy to call Jews socialists and Bolshevics to excuse the Muslim hatred the Arabs learned on a daily basis from their teachings of the Koran.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some Jews arrived in the 1880s, but 6,000 of them left because they were poor farmers.
> 
> A German Christian sect  arrived about the same time and developed very successful dairy farms. 40 years later they were forced out and their farms confiscated.
> 
> Some of the Zionists were no better than criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give me a link to those 6000 Jews leaving because they were poor.
> 
> German farmers had their land confiscated by whom?
> You are accusing the Jews?
> Link
> 
> Are you going to give me your Jew hating sources or are you too afraid that they really are Jew hating sources?
> 
> I want the links to your sources, or clearly you do know that they are Jew hating sources and only invent things to create hatred toward the Jews.
Click to expand...


Yes, they were German religious families who developed successful dairy farms around Jaffa. The Zionist terror gangs confiscated their farms and drove them out. They may have been Carmelites.. I would have to look up their Christian sect.


----------



## surada

Mindful said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
Click to expand...


You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.


----------



## Mindful

surada said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
Click to expand...


I don’t care.


----------



## surada

Roudy said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I'm talking about this guy, the founder of IslamoNazism and  Egyptian born Arafat's uncle and mentor.  Bet you didn't know Arafat'slasr name was Husseini before he changed it.  Your ignorance and bigotry is beginning to show.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler's Mufti
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.catholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini. This Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited whole divisions of fanatics to fight and kill in the name of extremism.
> 
> Revered in some circles today as one of the fathers of modern radical Islam, al-Husseini has been the subject of a number of modern studies. Scholars such as David Dalin, John Rothmann, Chuck Morse, and others have courageously brought al-Husseini’s actions to light. “Hitler’s Mufti,” as many have called him, had a direct hand in some of the darkest moments of the Holocaust, the slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians, and the formation of some of the most hate-filled generations of modern history. Al-Husseini is a testament to the way that evil finds evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Mutfi was not Arafat's uncle.. Different family.
> 
> The population of Palestine had already doubled with European refugees. The Mufti met with Hitler in Nov of 1941 for 10 minutes to ask to ask for a reprieve.. Could they go elsewhere?
> 
> Its become fashionable in recent years to justify what the Zionists  did in Palestine by blaming the Mufti for the Holocaust instead of Hitler.
> 
> Likewise, the Zionists didn't fight Hitler, but they are ever so keen to kill Palestinians and take their land.
> 
> Remember that the Jewish terror gangs were founded in the early 1920 and by 1948 they had killed over 500 British peacekeepers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once again, you got it upside down.  The Mufti was indeed Hitler's uncle and mentor and was designated as a Nazi agent even by the US Dept. of state. The Jewish armed militias  were formed for protection as a result of Muftis terrorist animals committing massacres such as the Hebron masacre  on Jewish communities.
Click to expand...


No Palesrinians existed in your European world, but they were always Palestinians among Arab Muslims and Christians.

Nope .Arafat was from a different family. He wasn't related to the Mufti. That's one of the more obvious lies the Zionists tell.

Hebron was an Arab town until 1500 when some Jews from Spain arrived without incident. They weren't Zionists of course so there was no conflict..

You may want to look up the history of Hebron.


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
Click to expand...

Look who's calling who ignorant.  









						Hitler's Mideast helpers
					

Arabs were cheerleaders and enablers of the Final Solution.




					www.latimes.com
				




POINTLESS though it may be to argue with a madman, it is worth noting that Muslims were not as blameless in the genocide of the Jews as Ahmadinejad and his ilk would have it. Arabs were, on a small scale, cheerleaders and enablers of the Final Solution. The most famous example was Haj Amin Husseini, the grand mufti of Jerusalem (and uncle of Yasser Arafat), who took refuge in Berlin in World War II. A rabid Nazi, he personally lobbied Hitler to kill as many Jews as possible and even helped out by recruiting Bosnian Muslims to serve in the Waffen SS.


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I'm talking about this guy, the founder of IslamoNazism and  Egyptian born Arafat's uncle and mentor.  Bet you didn't know Arafat'slasr name was Husseini before he changed it.  Your ignorance and bigotry is beginning to show.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler's Mufti
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.catholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini. This Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited whole divisions of fanatics to fight and kill in the name of extremism.
> 
> Revered in some circles today as one of the fathers of modern radical Islam, al-Husseini has been the subject of a number of modern studies. Scholars such as David Dalin, John Rothmann, Chuck Morse, and others have courageously brought al-Husseini’s actions to light. “Hitler’s Mufti,” as many have called him, had a direct hand in some of the darkest moments of the Holocaust, the slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians, and the formation of some of the most hate-filled generations of modern history. Al-Husseini is a testament to the way that evil finds evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Mutfi was not Arafat's uncle.. Different family.
> 
> The population of Palestine had already doubled with European refugees. The Mufti met with Hitler in Nov of 1941 for 10 minutes to ask to ask for a reprieve.. Could they go elsewhere?
> 
> Its become fashionable in recent years to justify what the Zionists  did in Palestine by blaming the Mufti for the Holocaust instead of Hitler.
> 
> Likewise, the Zionists didn't fight Hitler, but they are ever so keen to kill Palestinians and take their land.
> 
> Remember that the Jewish terror gangs were founded in the early 1920 and by 1948 they had killed over 500 British peacekeepers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once again, you got it upside down.  The Mufti was indeed Hitler's uncle and mentor and was designated as a Nazi agent even by the US Dept. of state. The Jewish armed militias  were formed for protection as a result of Muftis terrorist animals committing massacres such as the Hebron masacre  on Jewish communities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No Palesrinians existed in your European world, but they were always Palestinians among Arab Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Nope .Arafat was from a different family. He wasn't related to the Mufti. That's one of the more obvious lies the Zionists tell.
> 
> Hebron was an Arab town until 1500 when some Jews from Spain arrived without incident. They weren't Zionists of course so there was no conflict..
> 
> You may want to look up the history of Hebron.
Click to expand...

Hebron is an ancient Jewish city mentioned in the Old Testament, dufus. The fact that Arabs / Muslims invaded, raped, pillaged and slaughtered most of the land they currently sit on, doesn't make it theirs..


----------



## surada

Mindful said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
Click to expand...


I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.


----------



## surada

Roudy said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look who's calling who ignorant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler's Mideast helpers
> 
> 
> Arabs were cheerleaders and enablers of the Final Solution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.latimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> POINTLESS though it may be to argue with a madman, it is worth noting that Muslims were not as blameless in the genocide of the Jews as Ahmadinejad and his ilk would have it. Arabs were, on a small scale, cheerleaders and enablers of the Final Solution. The most famous example was Haj Amin Husseini, the grand mufti of Jerusalem (and uncle of Yasser Arafat), who took refuge in Berlin in World War II. A rabid Nazi, he personally lobbied Hitler to kill as many Jews as possible and even helped out by recruiting Bosnian Muslims to serve in the Waffen SS.
Click to expand...


The Arabs were very sympathetic toward the Holocaust survivors. .. After all they too are Semites. They lobbied  the idea that the Jews be given the best land in Germany..


----------



## surada

Roudy said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I'm talking about this guy, the founder of IslamoNazism and  Egyptian born Arafat's uncle and mentor.  Bet you didn't know Arafat'slasr name was Husseini before he changed it.  Your ignorance and bigotry is beginning to show.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler's Mufti
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.catholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini. This Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited whole divisions of fanatics to fight and kill in the name of extremism.
> 
> Revered in some circles today as one of the fathers of modern radical Islam, al-Husseini has been the subject of a number of modern studies. Scholars such as David Dalin, John Rothmann, Chuck Morse, and others have courageously brought al-Husseini’s actions to light. “Hitler’s Mufti,” as many have called him, had a direct hand in some of the darkest moments of the Holocaust, the slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians, and the formation of some of the most hate-filled generations of modern history. Al-Husseini is a testament to the way that evil finds evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Mutfi was not Arafat's uncle.. Different family.
> 
> The population of Palestine had already doubled with European refugees. The Mufti met with Hitler in Nov of 1941 for 10 minutes to ask to ask for a reprieve.. Could they go elsewhere?
> 
> Its become fashionable in recent years to justify what the Zionists  did in Palestine by blaming the Mufti for the Holocaust instead of Hitler.
> 
> Likewise, the Zionists didn't fight Hitler, but they are ever so keen to kill Palestinians and take their land.
> 
> Remember that the Jewish terror gangs were founded in the early 1920 and by 1948 they had killed over 500 British peacekeepers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once again, you got it upside down.  The Mufti was indeed Hitler's uncle and mentor and was designated as a Nazi agent even by the US Dept. of state. The Jewish armed militias  were formed for protection as a result of Muftis terrorist animals committing massacres such as the Hebron masacre  on Jewish communities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No Palesrinians existed in your European world, but they were always Palestinians among Arab Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Nope .Arafat was from a different family. He wasn't related to the Mufti. That's one of the more obvious lies the Zionists tell.
> 
> Hebron was an Arab town until 1500 when some Jews from Spain arrived without incident. They weren't Zionists of course so there was no conflict..
> 
> You may want to look up the history of Hebron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hebron is an ancient Jewish city mentioned in the Old Testament, dufus. The fact that Arabs / Muslims invaded, raped, pillaged and slaughtered most of the land they currently sit on, doesn't make it theirs..
Click to expand...


Jews had basically abandoned Hebron and the Holy Lands by the first century.. Palestinians care for the holy places of the patriarchs ..They also mended the Roman Aqueducts and terraces and tended the 500 year old olive trees.


----------



## Mindful

Roudy said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look who's calling who ignorant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler's Mideast helpers
> 
> 
> Arabs were cheerleaders and enablers of the Final Solution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.latimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> POINTLESS though it may be to argue with a madman, it is worth noting that Muslims were not as blameless in the genocide of the Jews as Ahmadinejad and his ilk would have it. Arabs were, on a small scale, cheerleaders and enablers of the Final Solution. The most famous example was Haj Amin Husseini, the grand mufti of Jerusalem (and uncle of Yasser Arafat), who took refuge in Berlin in World War II. A rabid Nazi, he personally lobbied Hitler to kill as many Jews as possible and even helped out by recruiting Bosnian Muslims to serve in the Waffen SS.
Click to expand...


I actually saw this when I was in Cracow.









						Hitler’s proposed “Museum of an Extinct Race”
					

Hitler’s proposed “Museum of an Extinct Race” was mentioned in an article here about British school teachers visiting Auschwitz to learn how to teach the Holocaust. This quote fro…




					furtherglory.wordpress.com
				




The Germans had the preemptive arrogance to erect a placard, before extinction was complete.


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
Click to expand...

And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?

In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.


----------



## surada

Roudy said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
Click to expand...


That one of the Zionist lies..Arab Jews left in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973 .. every wave was after some crappy aggression by the European refugees.


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
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> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I'm talking about this guy, the founder of IslamoNazism and  Egyptian born Arafat's uncle and mentor.  Bet you didn't know Arafat'slasr name was Husseini before he changed it.  Your ignorance and bigotry is beginning to show.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler's Mufti
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.catholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini. This Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited whole divisions of fanatics to fight and kill in the name of extremism.
> 
> Revered in some circles today as one of the fathers of modern radical Islam, al-Husseini has been the subject of a number of modern studies. Scholars such as David Dalin, John Rothmann, Chuck Morse, and others have courageously brought al-Husseini’s actions to light. “Hitler’s Mufti,” as many have called him, had a direct hand in some of the darkest moments of the Holocaust, the slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians, and the formation of some of the most hate-filled generations of modern history. Al-Husseini is a testament to the way that evil finds evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Mutfi was not Arafat's uncle.. Different family.
> 
> The population of Palestine had already doubled with European refugees. The Mufti met with Hitler in Nov of 1941 for 10 minutes to ask to ask for a reprieve.. Could they go elsewhere?
> 
> Its become fashionable in recent years to justify what the Zionists  did in Palestine by blaming the Mufti for the Holocaust instead of Hitler.
> 
> Likewise, the Zionists didn't fight Hitler, but they are ever so keen to kill Palestinians and take their land.
> 
> Remember that the Jewish terror gangs were founded in the early 1920 and by 1948 they had killed over 500 British peacekeepers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once again, you got it upside down.  The Mufti was indeed Hitler's uncle and mentor and was designated as a Nazi agent even by the US Dept. of state. The Jewish armed militias  were formed for protection as a result of Muftis terrorist animals committing massacres such as the Hebron masacre  on Jewish communities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No Palesrinians existed in your European world, but they were always Palestinians among Arab Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Nope .Arafat was from a different family. He wasn't related to the Mufti. That's one of the more obvious lies the Zionists tell.
> 
> Hebron was an Arab town until 1500 when some Jews from Spain arrived without incident. They weren't Zionists of course so there was no conflict..
> 
> You may want to look up the history of Hebron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hebron is an ancient Jewish city mentioned in the Old Testament, dufus. The fact that Arabs / Muslims invaded, raped, pillaged and slaughtered most of the land they currently sit on, doesn't make it theirs..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews had basically abandoned Hebron and the Holy Lands by the first century.. Palestinians care for the holy places of the patriarchs ..They also mended the Roman Aqueducts and terraces and tended the 500 year old olive trees.
Click to expand...

Jews never abandoned anything having to do with Israel, they always maintained a presence and always kept coming back.  That land is ancient Jewish land period end of story, nothing you say can change that.  Deal with it, or don't, who cares.


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That one of the Zionist lies..Arab Jews left in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973 .. every wave was after some crappy aggression by the European refugees.
Click to expand...

Yeah sure, it's all "Zionist lies" you should tell that to the scattered Jewish refugees all over the world...do you and Ahmadinejad exchange notes?  LOL


----------



## surada

Roudy said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
Click to expand...


Of course.. There have always been more Arabs.. 

What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?


----------



## surada

Roudy said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I'm talking about this guy, the founder of IslamoNazism and  Egyptian born Arafat's uncle and mentor.  Bet you didn't know Arafat'slasr name was Husseini before he changed it.  Your ignorance and bigotry is beginning to show.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler's Mufti
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.catholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini. This Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited whole divisions of fanatics to fight and kill in the name of extremism.
> 
> Revered in some circles today as one of the fathers of modern radical Islam, al-Husseini has been the subject of a number of modern studies. Scholars such as David Dalin, John Rothmann, Chuck Morse, and others have courageously brought al-Husseini’s actions to light. “Hitler’s Mufti,” as many have called him, had a direct hand in some of the darkest moments of the Holocaust, the slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians, and the formation of some of the most hate-filled generations of modern history. Al-Husseini is a testament to the way that evil finds evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Mutfi was not Arafat's uncle.. Different family.
> 
> The population of Palestine had already doubled with European refugees. The Mufti met with Hitler in Nov of 1941 for 10 minutes to ask to ask for a reprieve.. Could they go elsewhere?
> 
> Its become fashionable in recent years to justify what the Zionists  did in Palestine by blaming the Mufti for the Holocaust instead of Hitler.
> 
> Likewise, the Zionists didn't fight Hitler, but they are ever so keen to kill Palestinians and take their land.
> 
> Remember that the Jewish terror gangs were founded in the early 1920 and by 1948 they had killed over 500 British peacekeepers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once again, you got it upside down.  The Mufti was indeed Hitler's uncle and mentor and was designated as a Nazi agent even by the US Dept. of state. The Jewish armed militias  were formed for protection as a result of Muftis terrorist animals committing massacres such as the Hebron masacre  on Jewish communities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No Palesrinians existed in your European world, but they were always Palestinians among Arab Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Nope .Arafat was from a different family. He wasn't related to the Mufti. That's one of the more obvious lies the Zionists tell.
> 
> Hebron was an Arab town until 1500 when some Jews from Spain arrived without incident. They weren't Zionists of course so there was no conflict..
> 
> You may want to look up the history of Hebron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hebron is an ancient Jewish city mentioned in the Old Testament, dufus. The fact that Arabs / Muslims invaded, raped, pillaged and slaughtered most of the land they currently sit on, doesn't make it theirs..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews had basically abandoned Hebron and the Holy Lands by the first century.. Palestinians care for the holy places of the patriarchs ..They also mended the Roman Aqueducts and terraces and tended the 500 year old olive trees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews never abandoned anything having to do with Israel, they always npmaintained a presence and always kept coming back.  That land is ancient Jewish land period end of story, nothing you say can change that.  Deal with it, or don't, who cares.
Click to expand...


They weren't allowed in Jerusalem at all until the Treaty of Omar when he invited them to return. Most Jews lived outside Palestine from about 500 BC. 

Jerusalem was stony, arid and backwards... not successful like the north.. which accounts for the jealousy.

They didn't worship at the Fortress Antonia until 1500.


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
Click to expand...

So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.


----------



## Mindful

Roudy 

I hope your education is becoming complete.


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I'm talking about this guy, the founder of IslamoNazism and  Egyptian born Arafat's uncle and mentor.  Bet you didn't know Arafat'slasr name was Husseini before he changed it.  Your ignorance and bigotry is beginning to show.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler's Mufti
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.catholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini. This Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited whole divisions of fanatics to fight and kill in the name of extremism.
> 
> Revered in some circles today as one of the fathers of modern radical Islam, al-Husseini has been the subject of a number of modern studies. Scholars such as David Dalin, John Rothmann, Chuck Morse, and others have courageously brought al-Husseini’s actions to light. “Hitler’s Mufti,” as many have called him, had a direct hand in some of the darkest moments of the Holocaust, the slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians, and the formation of some of the most hate-filled generations of modern history. Al-Husseini is a testament to the way that evil finds evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Mutfi was not Arafat's uncle.. Different family.
> 
> The population of Palestine had already doubled with European refugees. The Mufti met with Hitler in Nov of 1941 for 10 minutes to ask to ask for a reprieve.. Could they go elsewhere?
> 
> Its become fashionable in recent years to justify what the Zionists  did in Palestine by blaming the Mufti for the Holocaust instead of Hitler.
> 
> Likewise, the Zionists didn't fight Hitler, but they are ever so keen to kill Palestinians and take their land.
> 
> Remember that the Jewish terror gangs were founded in the early 1920 and by 1948 they had killed over 500 British peacekeepers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once again, you got it upside down.  The Mufti was indeed Hitler's uncle and mentor and was designated as a Nazi agent even by the US Dept. of state. The Jewish armed militias  were formed for protection as a result of Muftis terrorist animals committing massacres such as the Hebron masacre  on Jewish communities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No Palesrinians existed in your European world, but they were always Palestinians among Arab Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Nope .Arafat was from a different family. He wasn't related to the Mufti. That's one of the more obvious lies the Zionists tell.
> 
> Hebron was an Arab town until 1500 when some Jews from Spain arrived without incident. They weren't Zionists of course so there was no conflict..
> 
> You may want to look up the history of Hebron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hebron is an ancient Jewish city mentioned in the Old Testament, dufus. The fact that Arabs / Muslims invaded, raped, pillaged and slaughtered most of the land they currently sit on, doesn't make it theirs..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews had basically abandoned Hebron and the Holy Lands by the first century.. Palestinians care for the holy places of the patriarchs ..They also mended the Roman Aqueducts and terraces and tended the 500 year old olive trees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews never abandoned anything having to do with Israel, they always npmaintained a presence and always kept coming back.  That land is ancient Jewish land period end of story, nothing you say can change that.  Deal with it, or don't, who cares.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They weren't allowed in Jerusalem at all until the Treaty of Omar when he invited them to return. Most Jews lived outside Palestine from about 500 BC.
> 
> Jerusalem was stony, arid and backwards... not successful like the north.. which accounts for the jealousy.
> 
> They didn't worship at the Fortress Antonia until 1500.
Click to expand...

In fact the Jews were invited by the Ottomans who controled the land for 500 years to "come back to their ancient homeland" due to the persecution they were suffering at the hands of the inquisitors, and at some point in the 19th century the population of Jerusalem (where it counts) was majority Jewish according to the Ottoman census. But what would you know, you only read the Jihad Times...minor factoid, the Ottomans never considered a Palestine or Palestinian people either, for the 600 years they were there.


----------



## Roudy

Mindful said:


> Roudy
> 
> I hope your education is becoming complete.


They try hard to disguise their identity, ignorance and their hate but after a few post they lose control and it all comes out.


----------



## Mindful

Roudy said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy
> 
> I hope your education is becoming complete.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They try hard to disguise their identity, ignorance and their hate but after a few post they lose control and it all comes out.
Click to expand...


Reincarnations, socks?


----------



## Roudy

Mindful said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy
> 
> I hope your education is becoming complete.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They try hard to disguise their identity, ignorance and their hate but after a few post they lose control and it all comes out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reincarnations, socks?
Click to expand...

Could be anyone starting with Monte.  He tucked his tail behind his back and ran when all his predictions failed, starting with US and other countries never declaring Jerusalem Israel's capital.  That one truly burned their asses.

Now we are witnessing a rebirth of Jew hate and anti Zionism being promoted by the Democratic Party in the US.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
> 
> ~ We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.
> In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."
> 
> The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."
> 
> Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's some truth in that Palestine was a province of Syria 500 years before the birth of Christ. .. and the people who lived there .. Muslim, Christian or Jew were not referred to as Syrians.. They were called Palestinians.. See references in Shakespeare and Chaucer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for nothing
> 
> Don’t know why you bothered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The European refugees were not satisfied with the land they were given.. They wanted more. Even in 1950 Chaim Weismann tried to get ARAMCO and Saudi Arabia to take in the rest of the Palestinians. The plan was to forcibly deport ALL of them ..saying they could work for TAPLINE, but that would have meant taking jobs from Saudis in a country that was still poor. By 1948 Israel was a top reciever of US foreign aid... KSA never was on the dole.
> 
> The crime of the European Zionists is NOT that they desperately needed a place to go.. Their crime is the cruel and ruthless way they treated the locals from the beginning.
> 
> They were all socialists and Bolshevics so maybe that explains what they did. Its beyond me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give me the link.  Is it by a historian or a anti Israel source?
> 
> By the way, from the" beginning" of Jewish immigration in the late 1900s with Zionism (which was a continuation of endless Jewish immigration back to their homeland through the centuries)  the Jews gave jobs to Arabs and others.
> 
> Those quotes do not mention the endless Arab attacks which had to lead the Jews to defend themselves from those attacks.
> 
> So easy to call Jews socialists and Bolshevics to excuse the Muslim hatred the Arabs learned on a daily basis from their teachings of the Koran.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some Jews arrived in the 1880s, but 6,000 of them left because they were poor farmers.
> 
> A German Christian sect  arrived about the same time and developed very successful dairy farms. 40 years later they were forced out and their farms confiscated.
> 
> Some of the Zionists were no better than criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give me a link to those 6000 Jews leaving because they were poor.
> 
> German farmers had their land confiscated by whom?
> You are accusing the Jews?
> Link
> 
> Are you going to give me your Jew hating sources or are you too afraid that they really are Jew hating sources?
> 
> I want the links to your sources, or clearly you do know that they are Jew hating sources and only invent things to create hatred toward the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, they were German religious families who developed successful dairy farms around Jaffa. The Zionist terror gangs confiscated their farms and drove them out. They may have been Carmelites.. I would have to look up their Christian sect.
Click to expand...

Look up a link to this story.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
Click to expand...

Mr. Arafat first shed Jewish blood during terrorist raids in 1947 and has kept it up ever since. He also became a leader in Palestinian politics and was the first Palestinian nationalist to declare, *“Violence is the only solution,”* that *“Liberating Palestine could only take place through the barrel of a gun.”* During the 1950s, Mr. Arafat lived and worked as an engineer in Kuwait. There, he recruited followers for Fatah, his Palestinian guerrilla group. Mr. Arafat also raised funds from rich Persian Gulf oil and construction millionaires in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates. These Persian Gulf millionaires remain Mr. Arafat’s main financial backers a half-century later. They also comprise the al Qaeda terror network’s primary source of funding.





__





						Yasser Arafat: Nazi trained
					






					www.washingtontimes.com


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Mindful said:
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> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I'm talking about this guy, the founder of IslamoNazism and  Egyptian born Arafat's uncle and mentor.  Bet you didn't know Arafat'slasr name was Husseini before he changed it.  Your ignorance and bigotry is beginning to show.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler's Mufti
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.catholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini. This Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited whole divisions of fanatics to fight and kill in the name of extremism.
> 
> Revered in some circles today as one of the fathers of modern radical Islam, al-Husseini has been the subject of a number of modern studies. Scholars such as David Dalin, John Rothmann, Chuck Morse, and others have courageously brought al-Husseini’s actions to light. “Hitler’s Mufti,” as many have called him, had a direct hand in some of the darkest moments of the Holocaust, the slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians, and the formation of some of the most hate-filled generations of modern history. Al-Husseini is a testament to the way that evil finds evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Mutfi was not Arafat's uncle.. Different family.
> 
> The population of Palestine had already doubled with European refugees. The Mufti met with Hitler in Nov of 1941 for 10 minutes to ask to ask for a reprieve.. Could they go elsewhere?
> 
> Its become fashionable in recent years to justify what the Zionists  did in Palestine by blaming the Mufti for the Holocaust instead of Hitler.
> 
> Likewise, the Zionists didn't fight Hitler, but they are ever so keen to kill Palestinians and take their land.
> 
> Remember that the Jewish terror gangs were founded in the early 1920 and by 1948 they had killed over 500 British peacekeepers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once again, you got it upside down.  The Mufti was indeed Hitler's uncle and mentor and was designated as a Nazi agent even by the US Dept. of state. The Jewish armed militias  were formed for protection as a result of Muftis terrorist animals committing massacres such as the Hebron masacre  on Jewish communities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No Palesrinians existed in your European world, but they were always Palestinians among Arab Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Nope .Arafat was from a different family. He wasn't related to the Mufti. That's one of the more obvious lies the Zionists tell.
> 
> Hebron was an Arab town until 1500 when some Jews from Spain arrived without incident. They weren't Zionists of course so there was no conflict..
> 
> You may want to look up the history of Hebron.
Click to expand...

One Al Husseini, Two Al Husseini, Three........from the same clan of Al- Husseini



https://www.google.com/search?rls=e...=2ahUKEwi3q93irL3xAhUAl2oFHSa2DtkQ4216BAgNEAQ

*Arafat's* full name was Mohammed Abdel Rahman Abdel Raouf *Arafat al*-Qudwa *al*-*Husseini*. Mohammed Abdel Rahman was his first name, Abdel Raouf was his father's name and *Arafat* his grandfather's. *Al*-Qudwa was the name of his tribe and *al*-*Husseini*was that of the *clan* to which the *al*-Qudwas belonged.









						Yasser Arafat - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I'm talking about this guy, the founder of IslamoNazism and  Egyptian born Arafat's uncle and mentor.  Bet you didn't know Arafat'slasr name was Husseini before he changed it.  Your ignorance and bigotry is beginning to show.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler's Mufti
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.catholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini. This Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited whole divisions of fanatics to fight and kill in the name of extremism.
> 
> Revered in some circles today as one of the fathers of modern radical Islam, al-Husseini has been the subject of a number of modern studies. Scholars such as David Dalin, John Rothmann, Chuck Morse, and others have courageously brought al-Husseini’s actions to light. “Hitler’s Mufti,” as many have called him, had a direct hand in some of the darkest moments of the Holocaust, the slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians, and the formation of some of the most hate-filled generations of modern history. Al-Husseini is a testament to the way that evil finds evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Mutfi was not Arafat's uncle.. Different family.
> 
> The population of Palestine had already doubled with European refugees. The Mufti met with Hitler in Nov of 1941 for 10 minutes to ask to ask for a reprieve.. Could they go elsewhere?
> 
> Its become fashionable in recent years to justify what the Zionists  did in Palestine by blaming the Mufti for the Holocaust instead of Hitler.
> 
> Likewise, the Zionists didn't fight Hitler, but they are ever so keen to kill Palestinians and take their land.
> 
> Remember that the Jewish terror gangs were founded in the early 1920 and by 1948 they had killed over 500 British peacekeepers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once again, you got it upside down.  The Mufti was indeed Hitler's uncle and mentor and was designated as a Nazi agent even by the US Dept. of state. The Jewish armed militias  were formed for protection as a result of Muftis terrorist animals committing massacres such as the Hebron masacre  on Jewish communities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No Palesrinians existed in your European world, but they were always Palestinians among Arab Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Nope .Arafat was from a different family. He wasn't related to the Mufti. That's one of the more obvious lies the Zionists tell.
> 
> Hebron was an Arab town until 1500 when some Jews from Spain arrived without incident. They weren't Zionists of course so there was no conflict..
> 
> You may want to look up the history of Hebron.
Click to expand...

I understand that you cannot help but believe and repeat what other Christians and non Jews have been saying.......but:

Hebron is the most ancient city in Jewish History, from the time of Abraham:

The most famous historic site in Hebron sits on the Cave of the Patriarchs. The site is holy to the three Abrahamic faiths: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. According to the book of Genesis, Abraham purchased the cave and the field surrounding it to bury his wife Sarah. The cave ultimately became the burial site for Abraham himself as well as Isaac and Rebekah, and Jacob and Leah. For this reason, Hebron is considered the second of the four holiest cities in Judaism (along with Jerusalem, Tiberias and Tzfat). The cave itself, also known as the Cave of Machpelah, is considered the second holiest site in Judaism,









						A History of Hebron from Ancient Judaea to Today
					

Hebron old city / Photo by Baraa Zm, Wikimedia Commons Hebron has long been a city of conflict between Palestinian residents and Israeli settlers. Introduction Hebron is a city in the southern Jude…




					brewminate.com
				









__





						About Hebron
					

Hebron is one of the oldest continuously inhabited cities in the world.




					en.hebron.org.il
				









						History & Overview of Hebron
					

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.




					www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look who's calling who ignorant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Hitler's Mideast helpers
> 
> 
> Arabs were cheerleaders and enablers of the Final Solution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.latimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> POINTLESS though it may be to argue with a madman, it is worth noting that Muslims were not as blameless in the genocide of the Jews as Ahmadinejad and his ilk would have it. Arabs were, on a small scale, cheerleaders and enablers of the Final Solution. The most famous example was Haj Amin Husseini, the grand mufti of Jerusalem (and uncle of Yasser Arafat), who took refuge in Berlin in World War II. A rabid Nazi, he personally lobbied Hitler to kill as many Jews as possible and even helped out by recruiting Bosnian Muslims to serve in the Waffen SS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Arabs were very sympathetic toward the Holocaust survivors. .. After all they too are Semites. They lobbied  the idea that the Jews be given the best land in Germany..
Click to expand...

It is simply just TOO amazing how you repeat little snippets said by other Christians. In each of your posts you let one out.

Now, Al Husseini and Arafat and all of those who attacked Jews between 1920 and 1948 were "sympathetic" to the Jewish Holocaust survivors.

The best land in Germany, or Australia, or Congo, would still not be the Jewish ancient homeland. So, no thanks.  Why take someone else's homeland when they had their own?

Here we are, post WWII and look at how sympathetic the British and Arabs were to the Jewish refugees:

Operation Oasis[edit]​The British concluded that the only option was send the Jews to camps in the British-controlled zone of post-war Germany, They realized that returning them to camps in Germany would elicit a public outcry, but Germany was the only territory under their control that could immediately accommodate so many people.[29]

Britain's position was summed up by John Coulson, a diplomat at the British Embassy in Paris, in a message to the Foreign Office in London in August 1947: "You will realize that an announcement of decision to send immigrants back to Germany will produce violent hostile outburst in the press. ... Our opponents in France, and I dare say in other countries, have made great play with the fact that these immigrants were being kept behind barbed wire, in concentration camps and guarded by Germans."[30] Coulson advised that Britain apply as best they could a counter-spin to the story: "If we decide it is convenient not to keep them in camps any longer, I suggest that we should make some play that we are releasing them from all restraint of this kind in accordance with their wishes and that they were only put in such accommodation for the preliminary necessities of screening and maintenance."[31] The mission of bringing the Jewish refugees of the _Exodus 1947_ back to Germany was known in diplomatic and military circles as "Operation Oasis."[29]









						SS Exodus - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## Sixties Fan

Not the Arabs, but.....

Faced with no other options, the ship returned to Europe. It docked in Antwerp, Belgium on June 17. By then, several Jewish organizations had secured entry visas for the refugees in Belgium, France, the Netherlands and Great Britain. The majority who had traveled on the ship survived the Holocaust; 254 later died as the Nazis swept through the continent.









						Ship carrying 937 Jewish refugees, fleeing Nazi Germany, is turned away in Cuba
					

A boat carrying 937 Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi persecution is turned away from Havana, Cuba, on May 27, 1939. Only 28 immigrants are admitted into the




					www.history.com


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## Sixties Fan

The British, not very friendly to Jewish immigration to their re-creation of their ancient homeland:





__





						The Struggle against Jewish Immigration to Palestine on JSTOR
					

Arieh J. Kochavi, The Struggle against Jewish Immigration to Palestine, Middle Eastern Studies, Vol. 34, No. 3 (Jul., 1998), pp. 146-167




					www.jstor.org
				




Where exactly are the sympathetic Arabs towards the Jews during all of this time?  The 1939 White Paper was brought up due to the 1936-1939 war of the Arabs against the Jews. 

The British did plenty to keep the Arabs from rioting and attacking them, the British.

uring the years 1944-1948, the Jews in Eastern Europe sought to leave that continent by any means. Emissaries from the yishuv, Jewish partisans and Zionist youth movements cooperated in establishing the Beriha (escape) organization, which helped nearly 200,000 Jews leave Europe. The majority settled in Palestine.

“Illegal” immigration (_Ha’apala) _was also organized by the _Mossad L’aliyah Bet_, a branch of the Haganah. The Palyam, a marine branch of the Palmach, was given responsibility for commanding and sailing ships.








Photo couresty of NARA
The loss of contact with European countries, the hazards of maritime travel under wartime conditions, and the difficulty in obtaining vessels for transport of illegal immigrants placed severe constraints on Aliyah Bet. Sixty-six illegal immigration sailings carrying 70,000 immigrants were organized during these years, but only a few managed to penetrate the British blockade and bring their passengers ashore. In 1947, 4,500 immigrants on the _Exodus_ were sent back to Europe by the mandatory government. The British also stopped vessels carrying immigrants at sea, and interned the captured immigrants in camps in Cyprus; most of these persons only arrived in Israel after the establishment of the state. Many Jews lost  their lives at sea. 





__





						Aliyah Bet (1939-1948)
					

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.




					www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org


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## Sixties Fan

n short, the purpose of this conference is to distort history and create a false Palestinian narrative where Zionism is nothing more than a Western imperial experiment and Jews have no ties to the region.

The prime minister Shtayyeh then solidified the fiction - and proved himself to be every bit as much of a lying bigot and antisemite as any Hamas member, despite his reputation as a moderate.




> Shtayyeh pointed out that the occupation is waging a war on our people with money to impoverish them so that people are not empowered in the face of the Zionist project, and the fourth war is the war of the narrative, and to be precise, and we strive only based on the facts of history, and in this war it is important from where to start the war of the narrative. The Hebrews, Jews and Israelis are not the same thing and there is no relationship between the Israelis and the Jews.
> 
> He explained that Judaism in the Torah that we know today was written in the year 70 BC, and in order not to lose the compass, the forged Zionist narrative is the one that mixed the Hebrews, the Israelis and the Jews, and accordingly, this matter is the key to researching the myth and the roots of the myth, and the other key is the Jews of today are the Khazar Jews who were Judaized in the sixth century AD.


Yes, Shtayyeh is pushing the antisemitic Khazar myth and saying that today's Jews aren't Jews - and therefore Israeli Jews have no ties to the Middle East, and are foreign interlopers and colonialists.

This is the "scientific research" being spread at this "academic conference" sponsored by the dictator of the Palestinians. 

(full article online)









						Mahmoud Abbas hosts "scientific" conference to counter Jewish history; PM Shtayyeh says Jews are "Khazars"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Roudy

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
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> 
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
> 
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> Mindful said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish soldiers from the German and Austro-Hungarian Empire celebrating Hanukkah, 1916.
> 
> A group photo of Jews serving in the armies of the German and Astro-Hungarian Empire. The Menorah in the center is being held by a German Landsturm soldier and a Austro-Hungarian soldier, probably to show the unity of the two empires. It’s placed on top a pile of snow with the hebrew inscription “Hanukkah, 1916”. On the left side of the Menorah is a Astro-Hungarian nurse who has the red and white ribbon for the ‘Decoration for Services to the Red Cross’. On the right side of the Menorah is a German field rabbi, the star of David can be seen on his field cap.
> 
> An estimated 100,000 German Jewish military personnel served in the German Army during World War I, of whom 12,000 were killed in action. In the Austro-Hungarian army it’s estimated that about 300,000 served.
> 
> 
> View attachment 506491
> 
> 
> 
> This is about destroying Jewish history, how?
> Maybe it belongs on another thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish participation in the Great War is almost never mentioned. Why is that I wonder.
> 
> Move it by all means if it disturbs you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not disturb me at all.  I am all for Jewish history.  This thread is about any attempt to destroy Jewish history, but this article does not fit the bill.  It is Jewish history but it is not anyone attempting to destroy, change Jewish history, which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just ignoring the Jewish contribution is a form of elimination for me.
> 
> Particularly regarding the “thanks” they got in WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Stern Gang's letters to Hitler?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I'm talking about this guy, the founder of IslamoNazism and  Egyptian born Arafat's uncle and mentor.  Bet you didn't know Arafat'slasr name was Husseini before he changed it.  Your ignorance and bigotry is beginning to show.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler's Mufti
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.catholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini. This Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited whole divisions of fanatics to fight and kill in the name of extremism.
> 
> Revered in some circles today as one of the fathers of modern radical Islam, al-Husseini has been the subject of a number of modern studies. Scholars such as David Dalin, John Rothmann, Chuck Morse, and others have courageously brought al-Husseini’s actions to light. “Hitler’s Mufti,” as many have called him, had a direct hand in some of the darkest moments of the Holocaust, the slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians, and the formation of some of the most hate-filled generations of modern history. Al-Husseini is a testament to the way that evil finds evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Mutfi was not Arafat's uncle.. Different family.
> 
> The population of Palestine had already doubled with European refugees. The Mufti met with Hitler in Nov of 1941 for 10 minutes to ask to ask for a reprieve.. Could they go elsewhere?
> 
> Its become fashionable in recent years to justify what the Zionists  did in Palestine by blaming the Mufti for the Holocaust instead of Hitler.
> 
> Likewise, the Zionists didn't fight Hitler, but they are ever so keen to kill Palestinians and take their land.
> 
> Remember that the Jewish terror gangs were founded in the early 1920 and by 1948 they had killed over 500 British peacekeepers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once again, you got it upside down.  The Mufti was indeed Hitler's uncle and mentor and was designated as a Nazi agent even by the US Dept. of state. The Jewish armed militias  were formed for protection as a result of Muftis terrorist animals committing massacres such as the Hebron masacre  on Jewish communities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No Palesrinians existed in your European world, but they were always Palestinians among Arab Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Nope .Arafat was from a different family. He wasn't related to the Mufti. That's one of the more obvious lies the Zionists tell.
> 
> Hebron was an Arab town until 1500 when some Jews from Spain arrived without incident. They weren't Zionists of course so there was no conflict..
> 
> You may want to look up the history of Hebron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One Al Husseini, Two Al Husseini, Three........from the same clan of Al- Husseini
> 
> 
> 
> Was Arafat of the same clan as Al Husseini? - Google Search
> 
> *Arafat's* full name was Mohammed Abdel Rahman Abdel Raouf *Arafat al*-Qudwa *al*-*Husseini*. Mohammed Abdel Rahman was his first name, Abdel Raouf was his father's name and *Arafat* his grandfather's. *Al*-Qudwa was the name of his tribe and *al*-*Husseini*was that of the *clan* to which the *al*-Qudwas belonged.
> 
> 
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> 
> Yasser Arafat - Wikipedia
> 
> 
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> en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...

The Egyptian born Arafat's uncle was basically the founder of IslamoNazi Terrorism.


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## Sixties Fan

"The Zionist narrative of the Holocaust brought them thousands of immigrants, while the current criminal holocaust of the Israelis against the Palestinians must be confronted," he said.

Besides the antisemitism of comparing the Palestinian issue with the Holocaust, note that he didn't say that the Holocaust itself brought Jews to Palestine - it was the "Zionist narrative of the Holocaust." 

Somehow the Zionists convinced the Jews in Europe that their relatives were slaughtered. 

(full article online)









						PA minister: Zionist myths about the Holocaust brought Jews to Palestine
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

The current issue of World Literature Today is dedicated to Palestinian literature. 

It unwittingly highlights the fact that even fiction - and even poetry - can lie.

There is a tacit contract between the writer and reader of fiction. No matter how fantastical literature is, it all relies on some common set of facts that the writer and reader can agree on. This way the readers can empathize with the characters and allow themselves to be swept up in the emotion of the story.

When fiction or poetry is insidious propaganda, the writer feeds the reader lies as if they are facts. The reader assumes that the contract is valid, that the writer would not purposefully feed the reader lies to turn the reader into an antisemitic bigot.

Yet this is what much - not all, but probably most - of Palestinian literature does.

One of the poems in this issue is about a Palestinian prisoner who smuggled his sperm out of prison in a candy wrapper to his wife, who then conceives. 

----
The scene described is indeed inhuman. And it is a complete lie - no one would stop her from her doctor, no one would point guns at her as she gasps through labor. The emotional arc is based on the poet breaking the contract with the reader and creating a universe of the monstrous Jew persecuting the innocent Palestinian, a Jew whose evil is assumed and does not have to be explained; Jewish depravity is just an unquestioned part of the universe like gravity.

In another poem, "Taking Back Jerusalem," even the title is propaganda - it tells the reader that Jerusalem is unquestioningly "Palestinian" and Jews who have lived there and prayed for return there for thousands of years are the outsiders. Excerpt:

-----
If the reader knows that this is impossible, that Arabs were not expelled from Jerusalem, there there are hundreds of thousands of Arabs who live in Jerusalem today (more than at any time in history,) that Arabs and Jews walk together and take classes together and sit next to each other on buses and shop together every hour of every day in Jerusalem, and that it is inconceivable that a Jewish soldier in 1967 would have held a gun to a four year old girl's head when there was a real war going on - the poem would lose its power. 

The poet knows that the reader is ignorant, and that the poet must fill in these gaps of knowledge with lies to create the impression of Jewish immorality.

(full article and poems online)









						Even Palestinian poetry is filled with antisemitic lies
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Mondoweiss site has been shown to traffic in antisemitism again and again and again.  Its cofounder, Philip Weiss, seems to have a bizarre hatred for Jews. 

So it is interesting to examine when the site pretends to suddenly become a champion of the Judaism it despises.

It recently published an article titled "The Zionist assault on Judaism" from Jeff Halper, director of the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions and opponent of the concept of a Jewish state.

This article claims that "Zionism has not yet murdered Judaism but it has undermined its moral and historical integrity. "

In order to make this claim, Halper has to do no less than redefine Judaism itself.

------
Judaism has never regarded the Diaspora as an ideal. Only revisionists like Butler and Halper do that. They want Jews to remain powerless - and to eventually disappear. They hate Israel so much that they redefine Judaism to exclude some of its basic tenets.

In fact, Israel helps strengthen the Jewish communities of the world. Jewish pride in Israel has become an important component of modern Judaism. 

This is what the Jewish revisionists want to demolish - they want to turn Israel from a source of pride into a source of shame. Moreover, they want to redefine Judaism itself to transform the millennia-old Jewish desire to return to Zion into an immoral compulsion to oppress Arabs.

(full article online)









						Mondoweiss redefining Judaism as "Diasporism" to attack Israel
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

The assignment uses leading questions to teach that, like Native Americans, the Palestinians are struggling to have “their sacred homelands returned to them.”

While it is true that most Palestinian Arabs likely view their uprisings in that way, the ancient and unbroken Jewish residence in these same sacred lands is omitted from the lesson.

There is no mention of the evidence of Jewish indigeneity or the need for a sovereign Jewish homeland in the often violently intolerant Middle East.


The assignment’s language indicates that students will never hear anything about the archaeological and textual discoveries that place the Jewish people in the land more than a millennium before the Arab Islamic colonial incursions.

Nor will students learn about the Jewish majority in Jerusalem dating back to the 1800s, or the genetic evidence indicating that most of the world’s Jewish population can be traced to the Levant.

Perhaps most disturbingly, the centuries-old oppression of Mizrahi Jewish communities in the Arab world, culminating in their brutal ethnic cleansing in the 20th century, is also left out. Nearly 1 million refugees were compelled by these anti-Semitic atrocities to find refuge in Israel.

Since students do not receive the above information in the Since Time Immemorial curriculum, those who complete the assignment will likely come away from it with two notions: first, that Israelis are analogous to Europeans who overran another people’s territory; and second, that the ethical position is to side with the indigenous Palestinians in their fight to reclaim their sacred homeland from Jewish usurpers.

(full article online)









						Washington State’s ‘Native Education’ 5th-grade curriculum attacks Israel | World Israel News
					

Children as young as 10 are being taught to associate the Native American experience with the Palestinians’ 'fight to be free from Israeli dominance.'




					worldisraelnews.com


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## Sixties Fan

But one person isn't impressed.

Daniel Seidemann, critic of Israel who specializes in Jerusalem history, shrugs this off with a quote from former deputy mayor of Jerusalem Meron Benvenisti who himself wanted to replace the Jewish state with a binational state:




> “Unplanned, and costing both human life and many millions of sheqels, a vast network of tunnels were created which allow for a visit to subterranean Jerusalem, that extends from what has become known as the City of David to the northern ramparts of the Old City. This underground city weaves a fabricated narrative – a Disneyland, really – that is designed to expunge thousands of years of non-Jewish history and create a purportedly direct link between the Second Temple Period until today. In this manner sewage ditches and moldy cellars are transformed into sacred sites and fabricated historical Jewish sites, with those who traverse it not encountering the embarrassing reality that reveals an Old City and Temple Mount teeming with Palestinians, in which the “city square” [as it appears in Naomi Shemer’s iconic song, “Jerusalem of Gold”] is once again devoid of Arabs.”
> Meron Benvenisti, The Dream of the White Sabra, [Hebrew] Jerusalem,
> 2005, p. 253 (translation by the author – D.S)


Whatever the merits of Benvenisti's criticisms of these digs were in 2005, the sheer amount of findings since then done by eminent archaeologists prove many times over the Jewish history of the city. This finding in particular cannot be brushed aside as a "moldy cellar."

Also, it is clearly false to say that the Israel Antiquities Authority is trying to erase non-Jewish history. The number of Islamic sites preserved by the IAA and the State of Israel in Jerusalem proves this.

Any new findings that strengthen the link between today's Jews and our ancestors must be fought tooth and nail by today's Israel haters. Seidemann is no fool, and he knows Jerusalem history quite well, but his antipathy to the Government of Israel prompts him to tweet such nonsense.

(photos and full article online)









						Magnificent Second Temple-era building upsets critics of Israel
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## surada

Roudy said:


> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
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> Arafat invented them.
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
Click to expand...


People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
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> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
Click to expand...

Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.

No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.

The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.

The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.


Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.


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## Mindful

# Summary ... A myth has been perpetrated upon the world. A myth so great that it has become an accepted fact by most scholars, historians, archaeologists, politicians, and the general public alike. That myth is the existence of the nation of 'Palestine' and the existence of a 'Palestinian' people.



> "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing more than southern Syria" — Ahmed Shukeiry, head of the PLO, to UN Security Council, May 31, 1956
> "... _Palestine_ is not only a part of our Arab homeland, but a basic part of southern Syria." — Syrian President Hafez Assad, Radio Damascus, March 8. 1974
> "Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only practical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a _new_ tool in the continuing battle against Israel ..." — Zuheir Muhsin, Head of the Military Department and Executive Council, PLO, Trouw, March 1977







__





						Palestinian Myths: The Real History of Palestine and the Israeli Conflict | Emet News
					

These articles cover the myths, lies, and truth about the non-existent 'Palestinian' people.



					emetnews.org


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> The assignment uses leading questions to teach that, like Native Americans, the Palestinians are struggling to have “their sacred homelands returned to them.”
> 
> While it is true that most Palestinian Arabs likely view their uprisings in that way, the ancient and unbroken Jewish residence in these same sacred lands is omitted from the lesson.
> 
> There is no mention of the evidence of Jewish indigeneity or the need for a sovereign Jewish homeland in the often violently intolerant Middle East.
> 
> 
> The assignment’s language indicates that students will never hear anything about the archaeological and textual discoveries that place the Jewish people in the land more than a millennium before the Arab Islamic colonial incursions.
> 
> Nor will students learn about the Jewish majority in Jerusalem dating back to the 1800s, or the genetic evidence indicating that most of the world’s Jewish population can be traced to the Levant.
> 
> Perhaps most disturbingly, the centuries-old oppression of Mizrahi Jewish communities in the Arab world, culminating in their brutal ethnic cleansing in the 20th century, is also left out. Nearly 1 million refugees were compelled by these anti-Semitic atrocities to find refuge in Israel.
> 
> Since students do not receive the above information in the Since Time Immemorial curriculum, those who complete the assignment will likely come away from it with two notions: first, that Israelis are analogous to Europeans who overran another people’s territory; and second, that the ethical position is to side with the indigenous Palestinians in their fight to reclaim their sacred homeland from Jewish usurpers.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Washington State’s ‘Native Education’ 5th-grade curriculum attacks Israel | World Israel News
> 
> 
> Children as young as 10 are being taught to associate the Native American experience with the Palestinians’ 'fight to be free from Israeli dominance.'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> worldisraelnews.com



That's quite a hit piece. You all have a lot of practice demonizing the "other".

Time Immorial is not scholarship. She should have stuck to cook books.


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## Mindful

surada said:


> She should have stuck to cook books.



So should you.


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
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> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
Click to expand...


No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.

They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Roudy said:
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> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
Click to expand...


Both articles contradict your belief:









						NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
					

As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.




					www.thejakartapost.com
				












						The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
					

The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”




					www.pri.org
				




--------------------
They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.   
ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc


----------



## Mindful

Sherri Hawn
From University of California

Fact: all Israelis, including Jews, were forcibly relocated OUT of Gaza by Israel in 2005. It was To meet the Oslo Accords requirement the Israelis return Gaza to the Palestinians in order to achieve peace.

That worked well, didn’t it?


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
Click to expand...


See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians. 

Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.

By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.


----------



## Mindful

Mitch Cohen
Freelance Translator German->English, English Edit (1987-present)

If the people in Gaza were Jews, they wouldn’t vote into office Hamas, whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel and cites the Koran’s call for the destruction of all Jews.
If the people in Gaza were Jews, they wouldn’t be wasting their money on terror tunnels and rockets to fire on other Jews. They would be building schools and infrastructure and trading with the world.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
Click to expand...

You are in the wrong thread, Surada.  Start your own and we will meet you there.


----------



## surada

Mindful said:


> Sherri Hawn
> From University of California
> 
> Fact: all Israelis, including Jews, were forcibly relocated OUT of Gaza by Israel in 2005. It was To meet the Oslo Accords requirement the Israelis return Gaza to the Palestinians in order to achieve peace.
> 
> That worked well, didn’t it?



The Israeli parents insisted. There were 20,000 young Israeli soldiers protecting 8,000 Jewish settlers to Gaza.. and it cost the US a damned boatload of money to pay them to leave.


----------



## surada

Mindful said:


> Mitch Cohen
> Freelance Translator German->English, English Edit (1987-present)
> 
> If the people in Gaza were Jews, they wouldn’t vote into office Hamas, whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel and cites the Koran’s call for the destruction of all Jews.
> If the people in Gaza were Jews, they wouldn’t be wasting their money on terror tunnels and rockets to fire on other Jews. They would be building schools and infrastructure and trading with the world.



The Israelis helped found HAMAS as a foil against the PLO.. They have admitted it repeatedly.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mitch Cohen
> Freelance Translator German->English, English Edit (1987-present)
> 
> If the people in Gaza were Jews, they wouldn’t vote into office Hamas, whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel and cites the Koran’s call for the destruction of all Jews.
> If the people in Gaza were Jews, they wouldn’t be wasting their money on terror tunnels and rockets to fire on other Jews. They would be building schools and infrastructure and trading with the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis helped found HAMAS as a foil against the PLO.. They have admitted it repeatedly.
Click to expand...

Stop !!!!    Start your own thread on the subject.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mitch Cohen
> Freelance Translator German->English, English Edit (1987-present)
> 
> If the people in Gaza were Jews, they wouldn’t vote into office Hamas, whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel and cites the Koran’s call for the destruction of all Jews.
> If the people in Gaza were Jews, they wouldn’t be wasting their money on terror tunnels and rockets to fire on other Jews. They would be building schools and infrastructure and trading with the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis helped found HAMAS as a foil against the PLO.. They have admitted it repeatedly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stop !!!!    Start your own thread on the subject.
Click to expand...


Stop yourself.. Its time you found your integrity and humanity.

How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas - WSJ








						How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas - WSJ
					






					www.wsj.com
				



Jan 24, 2009 · Israel cooperated with a crippled, half-blind cleric named Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, even as he was laying the foundations for what would become Hamas.


----------



## MJB12741

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
Click to expand...

Got news for you Surada.  In 1947 there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians residing in Israel.  And now there are only just under 6 million of them left.  Yep, Israel is "erasing" the Palestinians. Get it yet?  









						Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian - ProCon.org
					

ARCHIVED WEBSITE This site was archived on Aug. 3, 2021. The two-state solution is no longer the most popular solution among the jurisdictions involved. A reconsideration of the topic is possible in the future. Background Israel/Palestine: Arab/Jewish Population (1914-2005) Jerusalem: Jewish...




					israelipalestinian.procon.org


----------



## surada

MJB12741 said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Got news for you Surada.  In 1947 there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians residing in Israel.  And now there are only just under 6 million of them left.  Yep, Israel is "erasing" the Palestinians. Get it yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian - ProCon.org
> 
> 
> ARCHIVED WEBSITE This site was archived on Aug. 3, 2021. The two-state solution is no longer the most popular solution among the jurisdictions involved. A reconsideration of the topic is possible in the future. Background Israel/Palestine: Arab/Jewish Population (1914-2005) Jerusalem: Jewish...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> israelipalestinian.procon.org
Click to expand...


They have a lot of children. Even so the Israelis have expelled nearly a million of them since 1947... and their 1967 land grab. They completely changed the demographics of Lebanon overnight and they still control Shaaba Farms and the GolanHeights.

Shameful.


----------



## Sixties Fan

MJB12741 said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Got news for you Surada.  In 1947 there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians residing in Israel.  And now there are only just under 6 million of them left.  Yep, Israel is "erasing" the Palestinians. Get it yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian - ProCon.org
> 
> 
> ARCHIVED WEBSITE This site was archived on Aug. 3, 2021. The two-state solution is no longer the most popular solution among the jurisdictions involved. A reconsideration of the topic is possible in the future. Background Israel/Palestine: Arab/Jewish Population (1914-2005) Jerusalem: Jewish...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> israelipalestinian.procon.org
Click to expand...

Please discuss this on my newer thread.  Let us not destroy this one by derailing from its subject.  Thanks


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Got news for you Surada.  In 1947 there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians residing in Israel.  And now there are only just under 6 million of them left.  Yep, Israel is "erasing" the Palestinians. Get it yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian - ProCon.org
> 
> 
> ARCHIVED WEBSITE This site was archived on Aug. 3, 2021. The two-state solution is no longer the most popular solution among the jurisdictions involved. A reconsideration of the topic is possible in the future. Background Israel/Palestine: Arab/Jewish Population (1914-2005) Jerusalem: Jewish...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> israelipalestinian.procon.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have a lot of children. Even so the Israelis have expelled nearly a million of them since 1947... and their 1967 land grab. They completely changed the demographics of Lebanon overnight and they still control Shaaba Farms and the GolanHeights.
> 
> Shameful.
Click to expand...

Wrong thread.  For the last time, go to the correct threads.


----------



## Sixties Fan

When academics call Israel a "settler colonial" state, it is meant to isolate the Jewish state from the legitimate family of nations. Yet historically, colonies have related to a mother country. The Puritans saw themselves as English, Afrikaaners as Dutch, Muslim conquerors as Arabs. They spoke the mother country's language and attempted to transfer its culture to their new land. 

The early, pre-state Zionists, however, sought to escape Europe, not to replicate it. They rejected Yiddish and adopted an old Middle East language - Hebrew - which they updated for modern purposes, while changing their German or Russian-sounding names. 

Central to the Zionist enterprise was the conviction that they were returning home. No other transplanted society made such a claim. Jews had lived in the area continuously for thousands of years. The Hebrew language is Semitic, not Indo-European. Ancient Jewish artifacts could be found everywhere. 

It is therefore more accurate to see Zionism as a form of nationalism - and Zionists as fulfilling a people's aspiration for self-determination in what they regard as their own land.

(full article online)









						Is Israel really a settler colonial state? | Opinion
					

***




					www.haaretz.com


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> When academics call Israel a "settler colonial" state, it is meant to isolate the Jewish state from the legitimate family of nations. Yet historically, colonies have related to a mother country. The Puritans saw themselves as English, Afrikaaners as Dutch, Muslim conquerors as Arabs. They spoke the mother country's language and attempted to transfer its culture to their new land.
> 
> The early, pre-state Zionists, however, sought to escape Europe, not to replicate it. They rejected Yiddish and adopted an old Middle East language - Hebrew - which they updated for modern purposes, while changing their German or Russian-sounding names.
> 
> Central to the Zionist enterprise was the conviction that they were returning home. No other transplanted society made such a claim. Jews had lived in the area continuously for thousands of years. The Hebrew language is Semitic, not Indo-European. Ancient Jewish artifacts could be found everywhere.
> 
> It is therefore more accurate to see Zionism as a form of nationalism - and Zionists as fulfilling a people's aspiration for self-determination in what they regard as their own land.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Israel really a settler colonial state? | Opinion
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com



Of course its nationalism. Colonial settlers? Well, they don't allow Palestinians to return to their ancestral homes.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> When academics call Israel a "settler colonial" state, it is meant to isolate the Jewish state from the legitimate family of nations. Yet historically, colonies have related to a mother country. The Puritans saw themselves as English, Afrikaaners as Dutch, Muslim conquerors as Arabs. They spoke the mother country's language and attempted to transfer its culture to their new land.
> 
> The early, pre-state Zionists, however, sought to escape Europe, not to replicate it. They rejected Yiddish and adopted an old Middle East language - Hebrew - which they updated for modern purposes, while changing their German or Russian-sounding names.
> 
> Central to the Zionist enterprise was the conviction that they were returning home. No other transplanted society made such a claim. Jews had lived in the area continuously for thousands of years. The Hebrew language is Semitic, not Indo-European. Ancient Jewish artifacts could be found everywhere.
> 
> It is therefore more accurate to see Zionism as a form of nationalism - and Zionists as fulfilling a people's aspiration for self-determination in what they regard as their own land.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Israel really a settler colonial state? | Opinion
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course its nationalism. Colonial settlers? Well, they don't allow Palestinians to return to their ancestral homes.
Click to expand...

The Arab Muslims have 80% of the Mandate for Palestine, all of which is the Jewish Homeland.

What part of the ancient Jewish Homeland is the Palestinian ancient homeland, or homes?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> When academics call Israel a "settler colonial" state, it is meant to isolate the Jewish state from the legitimate family of nations. Yet historically, colonies have related to a mother country. The Puritans saw themselves as English, Afrikaaners as Dutch, Muslim conquerors as Arabs. They spoke the mother country's language and attempted to transfer its culture to their new land.
> 
> The early, pre-state Zionists, however, sought to escape Europe, not to replicate it. They rejected Yiddish and adopted an old Middle East language - Hebrew - which they updated for modern purposes, while changing their German or Russian-sounding names.
> 
> Central to the Zionist enterprise was the conviction that they were returning home. No other transplanted society made such a claim. Jews had lived in the area continuously for thousands of years. The Hebrew language is Semitic, not Indo-European. Ancient Jewish artifacts could be found everywhere.
> 
> It is therefore more accurate to see Zionism as a form of nationalism - and Zionists as fulfilling a people's aspiration for self-determination in what they regard as their own land.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Israel really a settler colonial state? | Opinion
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course its nationalism. Colonial settlers? Well, they don't allow Palestinians to return to their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Arab Muslims have 80% of the Mandate for Palestine, all of which is the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> What part of the ancient Jewish Homeland is the Palestinian ancient homeland, or homes?
Click to expand...


They Arab Muslims and Christians were the majority in Jerusalem and Palestine for 2000 years. What do you want to do with them?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> When academics call Israel a "settler colonial" state, it is meant to isolate the Jewish state from the legitimate family of nations. Yet historically, colonies have related to a mother country. The Puritans saw themselves as English, Afrikaaners as Dutch, Muslim conquerors as Arabs. They spoke the mother country's language and attempted to transfer its culture to their new land.
> 
> The early, pre-state Zionists, however, sought to escape Europe, not to replicate it. They rejected Yiddish and adopted an old Middle East language - Hebrew - which they updated for modern purposes, while changing their German or Russian-sounding names.
> 
> Central to the Zionist enterprise was the conviction that they were returning home. No other transplanted society made such a claim. Jews had lived in the area continuously for thousands of years. The Hebrew language is Semitic, not Indo-European. Ancient Jewish artifacts could be found everywhere.
> 
> It is therefore more accurate to see Zionism as a form of nationalism - and Zionists as fulfilling a people's aspiration for self-determination in what they regard as their own land.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Israel really a settler colonial state? | Opinion
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course its nationalism. Colonial settlers? Well, they don't allow Palestinians to return to their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Arab Muslims have 80% of the Mandate for Palestine, all of which is the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> What part of the ancient Jewish Homeland is the Palestinian ancient homeland, or homes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They Arab Muslims and Christians were the majority in Jerusalem and Palestine for 2000 years. What do you want to do with them?
Click to expand...

Live with them. In Peace.
Being the majority by conquest does not give those Christian and Muslim invaders sovereignty over the Jewish ancient homeland, or any other indigenous land in the world.

I did not see a response to my question.

Let us agree that some Canaanite Tribes had Arab origin.

Did they still identify themselves as their tribal name when the Romans conquered the land, or had they melted into the rest of the population?

Did they convert to Christianity or Islam?

When the Muslims invaded,  did they meet with this ancient Arab tribes which had been there for centuries?

Are they referred to by the Romans, the Byzantine, the Muslims?

Are there any descendants of those tribes which continue to identify themselves by those tribal names?

If so, those descendants, and only those descendants , would have a right to their ancient ancestral land in Canaan, be it in Gaza, Israel, Judea, Samaria or TransJordan.


Instead, we have the Palestinian leaders saying that :

1) Arabs had a mass migration to Canaan 10,000 years ago

2) The Arabs were in Canaan since Abrham's time, not before. (3800 years ag

3)   their ancestors were in Ancient Canaan, and belonged to those few tribes made of Arabs.

4) They are descendants from the Philistines where the word Palestine comes from

5)  The Hebrews were Arabs

6)  There is no Jewish History on the Temple Mount, only Christian and Muslim

--------------
So, I ask......did the invading Kurdish Muslim meet with the ancient tribes that already lived on the land?

Did the 2nd Muslim wave of Arabs meet with the descendants of those ancient Arabs when they reached Jerusalem?

Can any Arab tribes today retrace their history to those tribes, which in those days fought with Israel, King David and dealt with the Assyrians, Babylonians, Greeks and Romans, and therefore were part of the history of the area before the Muslim invasion?


What is the archeological and historical proof which is lacking in the Palestinian Museum?


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
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> Mindful said:
> 
> 
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> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
Click to expand...

There is nothing to erase, Palestine never was a country and neither were the Palestinians ever a people. You're just upset that non Muslims are refusing to be second class citizens and Dhimmi's and are fighting to keep their ancestral, religious and cultural homeland.


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
> 
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
> 
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
Click to expand...

Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> When academics call Israel a "settler colonial" state, it is meant to isolate the Jewish state from the legitimate family of nations. Yet historically, colonies have related to a mother country. The Puritans saw themselves as English, Afrikaaners as Dutch, Muslim conquerors as Arabs. They spoke the mother country's language and attempted to transfer its culture to their new land.
> 
> The early, pre-state Zionists, however, sought to escape Europe, not to replicate it. They rejected Yiddish and adopted an old Middle East language - Hebrew - which they updated for modern purposes, while changing their German or Russian-sounding names.
> 
> Central to the Zionist enterprise was the conviction that they were returning home. No other transplanted society made such a claim. Jews had lived in the area continuously for thousands of years. The Hebrew language is Semitic, not Indo-European. Ancient Jewish artifacts could be found everywhere.
> 
> It is therefore more accurate to see Zionism as a form of nationalism - and Zionists as fulfilling a people's aspiration for self-determination in what they regard as their own land.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Israel really a settler colonial state? | Opinion
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course its nationalism. Colonial settlers? Well, they don't allow Palestinians to return to their ancestral homes.
Click to expand...

Palestinians can't go back to their ancestral homelands of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia etc. because even the Arabs scoffed at the existence of a Palestinian when the idea came up.  In fact calling an Arab Muslim was an insult pre 1948 before Arafat hijacked the name, because it referred to the Jews of the region.  Your whole cause is a hoax.


----------



## surada

Roudy said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> surada said:
> 
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
> 
> 
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> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
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> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
Click to expand...


Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.

Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
History of Palestine - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine


----------



## surada

Roudy said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> When academics call Israel a "settler colonial" state, it is meant to isolate the Jewish state from the legitimate family of nations. Yet historically, colonies have related to a mother country. The Puritans saw themselves as English, Afrikaaners as Dutch, Muslim conquerors as Arabs. They spoke the mother country's language and attempted to transfer its culture to their new land.
> 
> The early, pre-state Zionists, however, sought to escape Europe, not to replicate it. They rejected Yiddish and adopted an old Middle East language - Hebrew - which they updated for modern purposes, while changing their German or Russian-sounding names.
> 
> Central to the Zionist enterprise was the conviction that they were returning home. No other transplanted society made such a claim. Jews had lived in the area continuously for thousands of years. The Hebrew language is Semitic, not Indo-European. Ancient Jewish artifacts could be found everywhere.
> 
> It is therefore more accurate to see Zionism as a form of nationalism - and Zionists as fulfilling a people's aspiration for self-determination in what they regard as their own land.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Israel really a settler colonial state? | Opinion
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course its nationalism. Colonial settlers? Well, they don't allow Palestinians to return to their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians can't go back to their ancestral homelands of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia etc. because even the Arabs scoffed at the existence of a Palestinian when the idea came up.  In fact calling an Arab Muslim was an insult pre 1948 before Arafat hijacked the name, because it referred to the Jews of the region.  Your whole cause is a hoax.
Click to expand...


The Palestinians were not from Saudi Arabia, Syria or Egypt. What on earth?

They are descended from the first century Jews who stayed behind.. That's why 90% of them share Jewish dna.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> When academics call Israel a "settler colonial" state, it is meant to isolate the Jewish state from the legitimate family of nations. Yet historically, colonies have related to a mother country. The Puritans saw themselves as English, Afrikaaners as Dutch, Muslim conquerors as Arabs. They spoke the mother country's language and attempted to transfer its culture to their new land.
> 
> The early, pre-state Zionists, however, sought to escape Europe, not to replicate it. They rejected Yiddish and adopted an old Middle East language - Hebrew - which they updated for modern purposes, while changing their German or Russian-sounding names.
> 
> Central to the Zionist enterprise was the conviction that they were returning home. No other transplanted society made such a claim. Jews had lived in the area continuously for thousands of years. The Hebrew language is Semitic, not Indo-European. Ancient Jewish artifacts could be found everywhere.
> 
> It is therefore more accurate to see Zionism as a form of nationalism - and Zionists as fulfilling a people's aspiration for self-determination in what they regard as their own land.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Israel really a settler colonial state? | Opinion
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course its nationalism. Colonial settlers? Well, they don't allow Palestinians to return to their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians can't go back to their ancestral homelands of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia etc. because even the Arabs scoffed at the existence of a Palestinian when the idea came up.  In fact calling an Arab Muslim was an insult pre 1948 before Arafat hijacked the name, because it referred to the Jews of the region.  Your whole cause is a hoax.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were not from Saudi Arabia, Syria or Egypt. What on earth?
> 
> They are descended from the first century Jews who stayed behind.. That's why 90% of them share Jewish dna.
Click to expand...

What does any of this have to do with the Thread's title, The Right to destroy Jewish history?

Discuss origins and population on some other thread.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority official Mohammad Shtayyeh explained this week in a speech to members of the Fatah party how he thinks the narrative against Israel should be presented.

He asked those present to engineer the public consciousness in a way that would clarify the difference between the Jewish people and the State of Israel.

"To fight the narrative, one has to understand that clearly, the Hebrews, the Jews, and the Israelis are not the same thing." said Shtayyeh in a video translated by Mechon Mamre.

He bases his explanations on various Islamic commentaries on the Bible. "Israel is Jacob. The children of Israel, they are the children of Jacob; 1300 years separate his children from the prophet Moses, making the Israelites and the Jews two different entities."

Shtayyeh added that "the key question is who the Jews of today are. The answer is clear, the Jews of today are Khuzar Jews who joined Judaism in the sixth century."

(full article online)









						Palestinian Authority official: No relation between Israel and Jews
					

Mohammad Shtayyeh, leading Palestinian Authority official, explains his theory that Jews, Israelites, and Hebrews are different entities.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> When academics call Israel a "settler colonial" state, it is meant to isolate the Jewish state from the legitimate family of nations. Yet historically, colonies have related to a mother country. The Puritans saw themselves as English, Afrikaaners as Dutch, Muslim conquerors as Arabs. They spoke the mother country's language and attempted to transfer its culture to their new land.
> 
> The early, pre-state Zionists, however, sought to escape Europe, not to replicate it. They rejected Yiddish and adopted an old Middle East language - Hebrew - which they updated for modern purposes, while changing their German or Russian-sounding names.
> 
> Central to the Zionist enterprise was the conviction that they were returning home. No other transplanted society made such a claim. Jews had lived in the area continuously for thousands of years. The Hebrew language is Semitic, not Indo-European. Ancient Jewish artifacts could be found everywhere.
> 
> It is therefore more accurate to see Zionism as a form of nationalism - and Zionists as fulfilling a people's aspiration for self-determination in what they regard as their own land.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Israel really a settler colonial state? | Opinion
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course its nationalism. Colonial settlers? Well, they don't allow Palestinians to return to their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians can't go back to their ancestral homelands of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia etc. because even the Arabs scoffed at the existence of a Palestinian when the idea came up.  In fact calling an Arab Muslim was an insult pre 1948 before Arafat hijacked the name, because it referred to the Jews of the region.  Your whole cause is a hoax.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were not from Saudi Arabia, Syria or Egypt. What on earth?
> 
> They are descended from the first century Jews who stayed behind.. That's why 90% of them share Jewish dna.
Click to expand...

Islamonazi logic at its finest. Jews are the closest descendants of ancient Jews, not Arab Muslims.


----------



## surada

Roudy said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> When academics call Israel a "settler colonial" state, it is meant to isolate the Jewish state from the legitimate family of nations. Yet historically, colonies have related to a mother country. The Puritans saw themselves as English, Afrikaaners as Dutch, Muslim conquerors as Arabs. They spoke the mother country's language and attempted to transfer its culture to their new land.
> 
> The early, pre-state Zionists, however, sought to escape Europe, not to replicate it. They rejected Yiddish and adopted an old Middle East language - Hebrew - which they updated for modern purposes, while changing their German or Russian-sounding names.
> 
> Central to the Zionist enterprise was the conviction that they were returning home. No other transplanted society made such a claim. Jews had lived in the area continuously for thousands of years. The Hebrew language is Semitic, not Indo-European. Ancient Jewish artifacts could be found everywhere.
> 
> It is therefore more accurate to see Zionism as a form of nationalism - and Zionists as fulfilling a people's aspiration for self-determination in what they regard as their own land.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Israel really a settler colonial state? | Opinion
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course its nationalism. Colonial settlers? Well, they don't allow Palestinians to return to their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians can't go back to their ancestral homelands of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia etc. because even the Arabs scoffed at the existence of a Palestinian when the idea came up.  In fact calling an Arab Muslim was an insult pre 1948 before Arafat hijacked the name, because it referred to the Jews of the region.  Your whole cause is a hoax.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were not from Saudi Arabia, Syria or Egypt. What on earth?
> 
> They are descended from the first century Jews who stayed behind.. That's why 90% of them share Jewish dna.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamonazi logic at its finest. Jews are the closest descendants of ancient Jews, not Arab Muslims.
Click to expand...


You moron. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah.


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
Click to expand...

Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.                        

https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF 

Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58


----------



## surada

Roudy said:


> surada said:
> 
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
Click to expand...


The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.

Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.


----------



## Mindful

surada said:


> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine


I think you’ve got that wrong. It’s Jews that people want to erase.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
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> surada said:
> 
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
> 
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> surada said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
Click to expand...

Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.

No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> When academics call Israel a "settler colonial" state, it is meant to isolate the Jewish state from the legitimate family of nations. Yet historically, colonies have related to a mother country. The Puritans saw themselves as English, Afrikaaners as Dutch, Muslim conquerors as Arabs. They spoke the mother country's language and attempted to transfer its culture to their new land.
> 
> The early, pre-state Zionists, however, sought to escape Europe, not to replicate it. They rejected Yiddish and adopted an old Middle East language - Hebrew - which they updated for modern purposes, while changing their German or Russian-sounding names.
> 
> Central to the Zionist enterprise was the conviction that they were returning home. No other transplanted society made such a claim. Jews had lived in the area continuously for thousands of years. The Hebrew language is Semitic, not Indo-European. Ancient Jewish artifacts could be found everywhere.
> 
> It is therefore more accurate to see Zionism as a form of nationalism - and Zionists as fulfilling a people's aspiration for self-determination in what they regard as their own land.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Israel really a settler colonial state? | Opinion
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course its nationalism. Colonial settlers? Well, they don't allow Palestinians to return to their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians can't go back to their ancestral homelands of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia etc. because even the Arabs scoffed at the existence of a Palestinian when the idea came up.  In fact calling an Arab Muslim was an insult pre 1948 before Arafat hijacked the name, because it referred to the Jews of the region.  Your whole cause is a hoax.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were not from Saudi Arabia, Syria or Egypt. What on earth?
> 
> They are descended from the first century Jews who stayed behind.. That's why 90% of them share Jewish dna.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamonazi logic at its finest. Jews are the closest descendants of ancient Jews, not Arab Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You moron. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah.
Click to expand...

You're the delusional brainwashed ignoramus who proposes today's Arab Muslim invaders from neighboring Arab lands more related to the ancient Jews than the actual Jews of today that are still around. 

FYI the ancient Jews never "became" anything, since the faith never spread through forced conversions after invasions, nor were they proselytizing, or spreading through marriage, as did Muslims and Christians. Jews had very strict rules as to who can and cannot be a Jew and kept to themselves for thousands of years. It is only in the 20th century that reform Jews (mainly in the US and Western nations) started accepting converts from other ethnicities and nationalities.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
Click to expand...


Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.

The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.


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## surada

Roudy said:


> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> 
> 
> When academics call Israel a "settler colonial" state, it is meant to isolate the Jewish state from the legitimate family of nations. Yet historically, colonies have related to a mother country. The Puritans saw themselves as English, Afrikaaners as Dutch, Muslim conquerors as Arabs. They spoke the mother country's language and attempted to transfer its culture to their new land.
> 
> The early, pre-state Zionists, however, sought to escape Europe, not to replicate it. They rejected Yiddish and adopted an old Middle East language - Hebrew - which they updated for modern purposes, while changing their German or Russian-sounding names.
> 
> Central to the Zionist enterprise was the conviction that they were returning home. No other transplanted society made such a claim. Jews had lived in the area continuously for thousands of years. The Hebrew language is Semitic, not Indo-European. Ancient Jewish artifacts could be found everywhere.
> 
> It is therefore more accurate to see Zionism as a form of nationalism - and Zionists as fulfilling a people's aspiration for self-determination in what they regard as their own land.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Israel really a settler colonial state? | Opinion
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course its nationalism. Colonial settlers? Well, they don't allow Palestinians to return to their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians can't go back to their ancestral homelands of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia etc. because even the Arabs scoffed at the existence of a Palestinian when the idea came up.  In fact calling an Arab Muslim was an insult pre 1948 before Arafat hijacked the name, because it referred to the Jews of the region.  Your whole cause is a hoax.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were not from Saudi Arabia, Syria or Egypt. What on earth?
> 
> They are descended from the first century Jews who stayed behind.. That's why 90% of them share Jewish dna.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamonazi logic at its finest. Jews are the closest descendants of ancient Jews, not Arab Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You moron. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're the delusional brainwashed ignoramus who proposes today's Arab Muslim invaders from neighboring Arab lands more related to the ancient Jews than the actual Jews of today that are still around.
> 
> FYI the ancient Jews never "became" anything, since the faith never spread through forced conversions after invasions, nor were they proselytizing, or spreading through marriage, as did Muslims and Christians. Jews had very strict rules as to who can and cannot be a Jew and kept to themselves for thousands of years. It is only in the 20th century that reform Jews (mainly in the US and Western nations) started accepting converts from other ethnicities and nationalities.
Click to expand...


You should probably read your Bible. They forced the conversion of the Edomites.

Hasmonean leader, John Hyracanus conquered the entire land of Edom “and undertook the forced conversion of its inhabitants to Judaism”.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> 
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> surada said:
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> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> When academics call Israel a "settler colonial" state, it is meant to isolate the Jewish state from the legitimate family of nations. Yet historically, colonies have related to a mother country. The Puritans saw themselves as English, Afrikaaners as Dutch, Muslim conquerors as Arabs. They spoke the mother country's language and attempted to transfer its culture to their new land.
> 
> The early, pre-state Zionists, however, sought to escape Europe, not to replicate it. They rejected Yiddish and adopted an old Middle East language - Hebrew - which they updated for modern purposes, while changing their German or Russian-sounding names.
> 
> Central to the Zionist enterprise was the conviction that they were returning home. No other transplanted society made such a claim. Jews had lived in the area continuously for thousands of years. The Hebrew language is Semitic, not Indo-European. Ancient Jewish artifacts could be found everywhere.
> 
> It is therefore more accurate to see Zionism as a form of nationalism - and Zionists as fulfilling a people's aspiration for self-determination in what they regard as their own land.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Israel really a settler colonial state? | Opinion
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course its nationalism. Colonial settlers? Well, they don't allow Palestinians to return to their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians can't go back to their ancestral homelands of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia etc. because even the Arabs scoffed at the existence of a Palestinian when the idea came up.  In fact calling an Arab Muslim was an insult pre 1948 before Arafat hijacked the name, because it referred to the Jews of the region.  Your whole cause is a hoax.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were not from Saudi Arabia, Syria or Egypt. What on earth?
> 
> They are descended from the first century Jews who stayed behind.. That's why 90% of them share Jewish dna.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamonazi logic at its finest. Jews are the closest descendants of ancient Jews, not Arab Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You moron. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah.
Click to expand...

Keturah or Hagar, and Tziporah, that would be 2.....out of thousands, if they were Arabs and not Egyptians.  It does not add much to the Jewish DNA. Hardly any.

The same goes to any person who eventually married into and converted to Judaism for the past 3800 years.

The Jewish DNA is the strong one amongst all the Jews, Ashkenazi, Sepharadi and Mizrahi.

Therefore the repetition that Palestinians are "90% " related to the Jewish People, is nothing but......what this thread deals with......

They use it as if they have the Right to Destroy Jewish History, by saying and repeating things that they know not to be true, or they would have been saying it from the creation of Islam.

How odd that it took ONLY 2400 years for an Arab named Mohammad to "discover" that he was "descended" from Ishmael and ONLY after he was educated about what the Hebrew Scriptures said.

Do remember that Mohammad was illiterate.

How odd that there there never was ANY oral history in his family passing on the genealogy of being descended from Abraham.

Curioser and Curioser.

Any way to Destroy Jewish History is welcome in Christian and Islamic arenas, since Israel declared Independence.  And ONLY from that time.

How curious.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
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> Mindful said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
Click to expand...

Are we discussing this on this thread instead of the other one I started for this purpose?


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
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> surada said:
> 
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> Roudy said:
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> When academics call Israel a "settler colonial" state, it is meant to isolate the Jewish state from the legitimate family of nations. Yet historically, colonies have related to a mother country. The Puritans saw themselves as English, Afrikaaners as Dutch, Muslim conquerors as Arabs. They spoke the mother country's language and attempted to transfer its culture to their new land.
> 
> The early, pre-state Zionists, however, sought to escape Europe, not to replicate it. They rejected Yiddish and adopted an old Middle East language - Hebrew - which they updated for modern purposes, while changing their German or Russian-sounding names.
> 
> Central to the Zionist enterprise was the conviction that they were returning home. No other transplanted society made such a claim. Jews had lived in the area continuously for thousands of years. The Hebrew language is Semitic, not Indo-European. Ancient Jewish artifacts could be found everywhere.
> 
> It is therefore more accurate to see Zionism as a form of nationalism - and Zionists as fulfilling a people's aspiration for self-determination in what they regard as their own land.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Israel really a settler colonial state? | Opinion
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course its nationalism. Colonial settlers? Well, they don't allow Palestinians to return to their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians can't go back to their ancestral homelands of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia etc. because even the Arabs scoffed at the existence of a Palestinian when the idea came up.  In fact calling an Arab Muslim was an insult pre 1948 before Arafat hijacked the name, because it referred to the Jews of the region.  Your whole cause is a hoax.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were not from Saudi Arabia, Syria or Egypt. What on earth?
> 
> They are descended from the first century Jews who stayed behind.. That's why 90% of them share Jewish dna.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamonazi logic at its finest. Jews are the closest descendants of ancient Jews, not Arab Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You moron. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah.
Click to expand...

Well if you're going by what the real story is, Abraham had a son from Sara's handmaiden named Ishmael (or Esmael as you Muslims call him), that God called a violent unruly wild ass who's decendants will be at war with everbody, and commanded Abraham to kick him out of his house after Issac was born, to which God's promise of Israel and the Covenant  went to.

You guys never mention that because it is the same foresaken Ishmael that Mohammad decided he is a decendant of.  Seems like advanced DNA testing going back thousands of years existed among the moon worshipping tribes of 14th century Saudi Arabia.


----------



## Roudy

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
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> 
> 
> When academics call Israel a "settler colonial" state, it is meant to isolate the Jewish state from the legitimate family of nations. Yet historically, colonies have related to a mother country. The Puritans saw themselves as English, Afrikaaners as Dutch, Muslim conquerors as Arabs. They spoke the mother country's language and attempted to transfer its culture to their new land.
> 
> The early, pre-state Zionists, however, sought to escape Europe, not to replicate it. They rejected Yiddish and adopted an old Middle East language - Hebrew - which they updated for modern purposes, while changing their German or Russian-sounding names.
> 
> Central to the Zionist enterprise was the conviction that they were returning home. No other transplanted society made such a claim. Jews had lived in the area continuously for thousands of years. The Hebrew language is Semitic, not Indo-European. Ancient Jewish artifacts could be found everywhere.
> 
> It is therefore more accurate to see Zionism as a form of nationalism - and Zionists as fulfilling a people's aspiration for self-determination in what they regard as their own land.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Israel really a settler colonial state? | Opinion
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course its nationalism. Colonial settlers? Well, they don't allow Palestinians to return to their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians can't go back to their ancestral homelands of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia etc. because even the Arabs scoffed at the existence of a Palestinian when the idea came up.  In fact calling an Arab Muslim was an insult pre 1948 before Arafat hijacked the name, because it referred to the Jews of the region.  Your whole cause is a hoax.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were not from Saudi Arabia, Syria or Egypt. What on earth?
> 
> They are descended from the first century Jews who stayed behind.. That's why 90% of them share Jewish dna.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamonazi logic at its finest. Jews are the closest descendants of ancient Jews, not Arab Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You moron. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Keturah or Hagar, and Tziporah, that would be 2.....out of thousands, if they were Arabs and not Egyptians.  It does not add much to the Jewish DNA. Hardly any.
> 
> The same goes to any person who eventually married into and converted to Judaism for the past 3800 years.
> 
> The Jewish DNA is the strong one amongst all the Jews, Ashkenazi, Sepharadi and Mizrahi.
> 
> Therefore the repetition that Palestinians are "90% " related to the Jewish People, is nothing but......what this thread deals with......
> 
> They use it as if they have the Right to Destroy Jewish History, by saying and repeating things that they know not to be true, or they would have been saying it from the creation of Islam.
> 
> How odd that it took ONLY 2400 years for an Arab named Mohammad to "discover" that he was "descended" from Ishmael and ONLY after he was educated about what the Hebrew Scriptures said.
> 
> Do remember that Mohammad was illiterate.
> 
> How odd that there there never was ANY oral history in his family passing on the genealogy of being descended from Abraham.
> 
> Curioser and Curioser.
> 
> Any way to Destroy Jewish History is welcome in Christian and Islamic arenas, since Israel declared Independence.  And ONLY from that time.
> 
> How curious.
Click to expand...

Somehow the warrior prophet was able to determine that he's a direct decendant of Ismaeel going back thousands of years.  In other words he tied himself directly to the person that God called a "wild ass" and commanded Abraham to kick out of his house. The guy was a fookin' genius. If there were any Darwin Awards back then he for sure would had gotten one.


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## Roudy

surada said:


> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> 
> 
> When academics call Israel a "settler colonial" state, it is meant to isolate the Jewish state from the legitimate family of nations. Yet historically, colonies have related to a mother country. The Puritans saw themselves as English, Afrikaaners as Dutch, Muslim conquerors as Arabs. They spoke the mother country's language and attempted to transfer its culture to their new land.
> 
> The early, pre-state Zionists, however, sought to escape Europe, not to replicate it. They rejected Yiddish and adopted an old Middle East language - Hebrew - which they updated for modern purposes, while changing their German or Russian-sounding names.
> 
> Central to the Zionist enterprise was the conviction that they were returning home. No other transplanted society made such a claim. Jews had lived in the area continuously for thousands of years. The Hebrew language is Semitic, not Indo-European. Ancient Jewish artifacts could be found everywhere.
> 
> It is therefore more accurate to see Zionism as a form of nationalism - and Zionists as fulfilling a people's aspiration for self-determination in what they regard as their own land.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Israel really a settler colonial state? | Opinion
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course its nationalism. Colonial settlers? Well, they don't allow Palestinians to return to their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians can't go back to their ancestral homelands of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia etc. because even the Arabs scoffed at the existence of a Palestinian when the idea came up.  In fact calling an Arab Muslim was an insult pre 1948 before Arafat hijacked the name, because it referred to the Jews of the region.  Your whole cause is a hoax.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were not from Saudi Arabia, Syria or Egypt. What on earth?
> 
> They are descended from the first century Jews who stayed behind.. That's why 90% of them share Jewish dna.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamonazi logic at its finest. Jews are the closest descendants of ancient Jews, not Arab Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You moron. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're the delusional brainwashed ignoramus who proposes today's Arab Muslim invaders from neighboring Arab lands more related to the ancient Jews than the actual Jews of today that are still around.
> 
> FYI the ancient Jews never "became" anything, since the faith never spread through forced conversions after invasions, nor were they proselytizing, or spreading through marriage, as did Muslims and Christians. Jews had very strict rules as to who can and cannot be a Jew and kept to themselves for thousands of years. It is only in the 20th century that reform Jews (mainly in the US and Western nations) started accepting converts from other ethnicities and nationalities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You should probably read your Bible. They forced the conversion of the Edomites.
> 
> Hasmonean leader, John Hyracanus conquered the entire land of Edom “and undertook the forced conversion of its inhabitants to Judaism”.
Click to expand...

The Old Testament which precedes both the New and the Koran clearly says that Ishmael was thrown out of Abrahams house, and God literally calls him a wild ass due to his unruly violent behavior.

Jews never intermarried nor did they ever accept someone who's mother isn't a Jew to be a Jew.  This idea that Muslim Arabs are more Jewish than 16 million of today's Jews that are alive and around today, especially the ones from middle eastern countries who are direct decendants of the ones that escaped the destruction of the first and second temples and comprise a majority of Israel's population today is yet another attempt by IslamoNazis to destroy Jewish history and identity.


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## Roudy

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
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> Roudy said:
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> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
Click to expand...

Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.



			https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
		






Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58


----------



## Roudy

Roudy said:


> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
Click to expand...

 



A publication on education in greater Syria from 1882 showed that there were a total of 3,854 students in school in Jerusalem (2,768 boys and 1,086 girls) and 235 teachers.28 The number of girls in Christian schools (Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, Latin, Greek Catholic, and Armenian) were slightly more than the number of boys (926 girls to 861 boys). While the majority of these students were Christians,                
four of the Evangelical schools (two for boys and two for girls) totaling 138 students exclusively taught Jews. In addition, there were 1,707 students in Jewish schools, 160 of which were girls. In the eight Muslim schools, all of which were for boys, there were 360 students. In 1891, the Government opened a general [secondary] school (Rushdiya) [sic] in our city, where all the children of the city, regardless of their religion, could attend classes in Arabic, Turkish, French, and the basic sciences.29 It was also recorded that a Muslim school for girls had been established.30


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## surada

im





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> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
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> 
> Roudy said:
> 
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> surada said:
> 
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> Mindful said:
> 
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> surada said:
> 
> 
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> 
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> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A publication on education in greater Syria from 1882 showed that there were a total of 3,854 students in school in Jerusalem (2,768 boys and 1,086 girls) and 235 teachers.28 The number of girls in Christian schools (Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, Latin, Greek Catholic, and Armenian) were slightly more than the number of boys (926 girls to 861 boys). While the majority of these students were Christians,
> four of the Evangelical schools (two for boys and two for girls) totaling 138 students exclusively taught Jews. In addition, there were 1,707 students in Jewish schools, 160 of which were girls. In the eight Muslim schools, all of which were for boys, there were 360 students. In 1891, the Government opened a general [secondary] school (Rushdiya) [sic] in our city, where all the children of the city, regardless of their religion, could attend classes in Arabic, Turkish, French, and the basic sciences.29 It was also recorded that a Muslim school for girls had been established.30
Click to expand...


Many, many Jews lived in Damascus since before the time of Christ. Not many stayed in Palestine if they could get out.


----------



## surada

Roudy said:


> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> surada said:
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> 
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> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
Click to expand...


By 1922 some 200,000 European Jews had arrived in Palestine. They were all socialists or Bolsheviks.

Read Zionist Aspirations in Palestine, the Atlantic. July 1920.

They had already begun forming Zionist terror gangs.


----------



## surada

Roudy said:


> surada said:
> 
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> 
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> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
> 
> 
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> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
Click to expand...


Arabs were in Palestine long before Islam, stupid. Haven't you read any of this thread?


----------



## watchingfromafar

*The Right To Destroy Jewish History*

Only God has that right.

God chose them to be His special people.
God loved His chosen.
God gave his chosen instruction on how to get His grace.

The term “stranger” is referenced 128 times in the KJV of the Bible.

You should check this out.

God was displeased on what His chosen were doing and scattered them as a result.
God then decided to give His chosen a second chance and gathered them.
They were gathered in 1947ad.

Today, this is what God sees
IDF shoots Palestinian children - Google Search

Now, in our lifetime we are going to be a witness to Gods final judgement of them.

Does anyone believe they will repent?
Does anyone believe they will confess their sins?
Does anyone believe they will ask the Lord for forgiveness?

I have my opinion on this, what is yours?

The right to destroy Jewish history is Gods right, and He will exercise that right, right before our eyes for all to see.

-


----------



## surada

watchingfromafar said:


> *The Right To Destroy Jewish History*
> 
> Only God has that right.
> 
> God chose them to be His special people.
> God loved His chosen.
> God gave his chosen instruction on how to get His grace.
> 
> The term “stranger” is referenced 128 times in the KJV of the Bible.
> 
> You should check this out.
> 
> God was displeased on what His chosen were doing and scattered them as a result.
> God then decided to give His chosen a second chance and gathered them.
> They were gathered in 1947ad.
> 
> Today, this is what God sees
> IDF shoots Palestinian children - Google Search
> 
> Now, in our lifetime we are going to be a witness to Gods final judgement of them.
> 
> Does anyone believe they will repent?
> Does anyone believe they will confess their sins?
> Does anyone believe they will ask the Lord for forgiveness?
> 
> I have my opinion on this, what is yours?
> 
> The right to destroy Jewish history is Gods right, and He will exercise that right, right before our eyes for all to see.
> 
> -



Check your scripture.. They were  gathered after the Babylonian exile.

God also loved the people of Nineveh.. See the comic novella of Jonah.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Mindful said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By 1922 some 200,000 European Jews had arrived in Palestine. They were all socialists or Bolsheviks.
> 
> Read Zionist Aspirations in Palestine, the Atlantic. July 1920.
> 
> They had already begun forming Zionist terror gangs.
Click to expand...






__





						A Jewish Palestine
					

"The idea of Judaism is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish people, and the idea of the Jewish people is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish land"




					www.theatlantic.com
				




What is wrong with Jews from Russia and other countries moving back to their ancient homeland and buying land there?

Nothing.

Jews started returning to their ancestral homeland from the 1820s on.  And actually, as discussed before, some have always returned home, due to pogroms, or they simply wanted to return.

Nothing wrong with that.

In 1920 all Jews were ethnically cleansed from Gaza.
In 1921 the Jews were attacked, for being Jews.


Tell any indigenous people, that some people who live in some of your ancestral land will attack you and want to kill you and watch them no take steps to protect themselves.

Terrorism is what Al Husseini did from the start of the Mandate for Palestine, telling the Jews that only a dead Jew, basically, was going to be allowed to live there is a sovereign Jewish state.

The Jews had to arm themselves, not only due to the Muslim attacks but because the British refused to protect them.

The same thing happened in Iraq in 1941 when the "Palestinian" leader Al Husseini went there and caused the Fahrud to happen to the Jewish population there.


Read things as you like.  History is there, and it will not be destroyed.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Right To Destroy Jewish History*
> 
> Only God has that right.
> 
> God chose them to be His special people.
> God loved His chosen.
> God gave his chosen instruction on how to get His grace.
> 
> The term “stranger” is referenced 128 times in the KJV of the Bible.
> 
> You should check this out.
> 
> God was displeased on what His chosen were doing and scattered them as a result.
> God then decided to give His chosen a second chance and gathered them.
> They were gathered in 1947ad.
> 
> Today, this is what God sees
> IDF shoots Palestinian children - Google Search
> 
> Now, in our lifetime we are going to be a witness to Gods final judgement of them.
> 
> Does anyone believe they will repent?
> Does anyone believe they will confess their sins?
> Does anyone believe they will ask the Lord for forgiveness?
> 
> I have my opinion on this, what is yours?
> 
> The right to destroy Jewish history is Gods right, and He will exercise that right, right before our eyes for all to see.
> 
> -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check your scripture.. They were  gathered after the Babylonian exile.
> 
> God also loved the people of Nineveh.. See the comic novella of Jonah.
Click to expand...

Not part of this thread.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> surada said:
> 
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
> 
> 
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> 
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> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine long before Islam, stupid. Haven't you read any of this thread?
Click to expand...

Not part of this thread.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
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> Sixties Fan said:
> 
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
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> surada said:
> 
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> 
> surada said:
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> 
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> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By 1922 some 200,000 European Jews had arrived in Palestine. They were all socialists or Bolsheviks.
> 
> Read Zionist Aspirations in Palestine, the Atlantic. July 1920.
> 
> They had already begun forming Zionist terror gangs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Jewish Palestine
> 
> 
> "The idea of Judaism is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish people, and the idea of the Jewish people is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish land"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theatlantic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is wrong with Jews from Russia and other countries moving back to their ancient homeland and buying land there?
> 
> Nothing.
> 
> Jews started returning to their ancestral homeland from the 1820s on.  And actually, as discussed before, some have always returned home, due to pogroms, or they simply wanted to return.
> 
> Nothing wrong with that.
> 
> In 1920 all Jews were ethnically cleansed from Gaza.
> In 1921 the Jews were attacked, for being Jews.
> 
> 
> Tell any indigenous people, that some people who live in some of your ancestral land will attack you and want to kill you and watch them no take steps to protect themselves.
> 
> Terrorism is what Al Husseini did from the start of the Mandate for Palestine, telling the Jews that only a dead Jew, basically, was going to be allowed to live there is a sovereign Jewish state.
> 
> The Jews had to arm themselves, not only due to the Muslim attacks but because the British refused to protect them.
> 
> The same thing happened in Iraq in 1941 when the "Palestinian" leader Al Husseini went there and caused the Fahrud to happen to the Jewish population there.
> 
> 
> Read things as you like.  History is there, and it will not be destroyed.
Click to expand...


The Jewish terror gangs had killed over 500 British peacekeepers by 1947. They even murdered Count Bernadotte who had saved 30,000 Jews from the Holocaust.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By 1922 some 200,000 European Jews had arrived in Palestine. They were all socialists or Bolsheviks.
> 
> Read Zionist Aspirations in Palestine, the Atlantic. July 1920.
> 
> They had already begun forming Zionist terror gangs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Jewish Palestine
> 
> 
> "The idea of Judaism is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish people, and the idea of the Jewish people is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish land"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theatlantic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is wrong with Jews from Russia and other countries moving back to their ancient homeland and buying land there?
> 
> Nothing.
> 
> Jews started returning to their ancestral homeland from the 1820s on.  And actually, as discussed before, some have always returned home, due to pogroms, or they simply wanted to return.
> 
> Nothing wrong with that.
> 
> In 1920 all Jews were ethnically cleansed from Gaza.
> In 1921 the Jews were attacked, for being Jews.
> 
> 
> Tell any indigenous people, that some people who live in some of your ancestral land will attack you and want to kill you and watch them no take steps to protect themselves.
> 
> Terrorism is what Al Husseini did from the start of the Mandate for Palestine, telling the Jews that only a dead Jew, basically, was going to be allowed to live there is a sovereign Jewish state.
> 
> The Jews had to arm themselves, not only due to the Muslim attacks but because the British refused to protect them.
> 
> The same thing happened in Iraq in 1941 when the "Palestinian" leader Al Husseini went there and caused the Fahrud to happen to the Jewish population there.
> 
> 
> Read things as you like.  History is there, and it will not be destroyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish terror gangs had killed over 500 British peacekeepers by 1947. They even murdered Count Bernadotte who had saved 30,000 Jews from the Holocaust.
Click to expand...


This part belongs on this thread:





__





						The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
					

UAE Writer: The Arab Expulsion Of Jews Was A Disastrous Mistake    Emirati writer Salam Hamid, founder and head of the Al-Mezmaah Studies and Research Center in Dubai, published an article titled "The Cost of the Expulsion of the Arab Jews" in the UAE daily Al-Ittihad, in which he lamented the...



					www.usmessageboard.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
> 
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> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By 1922 some 200,000 European Jews had arrived in Palestine. They were all socialists or Bolsheviks.
> 
> Read Zionist Aspirations in Palestine, the Atlantic. July 1920.
> 
> They had already begun forming Zionist terror gangs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Jewish Palestine
> 
> 
> "The idea of Judaism is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish people, and the idea of the Jewish people is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish land"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theatlantic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is wrong with Jews from Russia and other countries moving back to their ancient homeland and buying land there?
> 
> Nothing.
> 
> Jews started returning to their ancestral homeland from the 1820s on.  And actually, as discussed before, some have always returned home, due to pogroms, or they simply wanted to return.
> 
> Nothing wrong with that.
> 
> In 1920 all Jews were ethnically cleansed from Gaza.
> In 1921 the Jews were attacked, for being Jews.
> 
> 
> Tell any indigenous people, that some people who live in some of your ancestral land will attack you and want to kill you and watch them no take steps to protect themselves.
> 
> Terrorism is what Al Husseini did from the start of the Mandate for Palestine, telling the Jews that only a dead Jew, basically, was going to be allowed to live there is a sovereign Jewish state.
> 
> The Jews had to arm themselves, not only due to the Muslim attacks but because the British refused to protect them.
> 
> The same thing happened in Iraq in 1941 when the "Palestinian" leader Al Husseini went there and caused the Fahrud to happen to the Jewish population there.
> 
> 
> Read things as you like.  History is there, and it will not be destroyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish terror gangs had killed over 500 British peacekeepers by 1947. They even murdered Count Bernadotte who had saved 30,000 Jews from the Holocaust.
Click to expand...

I posted about it in the link I posted above.  If you wish to discuss it.....


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Roudy said:
> 
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> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By 1922 some 200,000 European Jews had arrived in Palestine. They were all socialists or Bolsheviks.
> 
> Read Zionist Aspirations in Palestine, the Atlantic. July 1920.
> 
> They had already begun forming Zionist terror gangs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Jewish Palestine
> 
> 
> "The idea of Judaism is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish people, and the idea of the Jewish people is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish land"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theatlantic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is wrong with Jews from Russia and other countries moving back to their ancient homeland and buying land there?
> 
> Nothing.
> 
> Jews started returning to their ancestral homeland from the 1820s on.  And actually, as discussed before, some have always returned home, due to pogroms, or they simply wanted to return.
> 
> Nothing wrong with that.
> 
> In 1920 all Jews were ethnically cleansed from Gaza.
> In 1921 the Jews were attacked, for being Jews.
> 
> 
> Tell any indigenous people, that some people who live in some of your ancestral land will attack you and want to kill you and watch them no take steps to protect themselves.
> 
> Terrorism is what Al Husseini did from the start of the Mandate for Palestine, telling the Jews that only a dead Jew, basically, was going to be allowed to live there is a sovereign Jewish state.
> 
> The Jews had to arm themselves, not only due to the Muslim attacks but because the British refused to protect them.
> 
> The same thing happened in Iraq in 1941 when the "Palestinian" leader Al Husseini went there and caused the Fahrud to happen to the Jewish population there.
> 
> 
> Read things as you like.  History is there, and it will not be destroyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish terror gangs had killed over 500 British peacekeepers by 1947. They even murdered Count Bernadotte who had saved 30,000 Jews from the Holocaust.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I posted about it in the link I posted above.  If you wish to discuss it.....
Click to expand...


I agree  that it was disasterous. They left in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973.  If only they could have held on, but European Zionism was very contentious and aggressive. I have always said it was a huge loss for the Arab world.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
> 
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> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By 1922 some 200,000 European Jews had arrived in Palestine. They were all socialists or Bolsheviks.
> 
> Read Zionist Aspirations in Palestine, the Atlantic. July 1920.
> 
> They had already begun forming Zionist terror gangs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Jewish Palestine
> 
> 
> "The idea of Judaism is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish people, and the idea of the Jewish people is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish land"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theatlantic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is wrong with Jews from Russia and other countries moving back to their ancient homeland and buying land there?
> 
> Nothing.
> 
> Jews started returning to their ancestral homeland from the 1820s on.  And actually, as discussed before, some have always returned home, due to pogroms, or they simply wanted to return.
> 
> Nothing wrong with that.
> 
> In 1920 all Jews were ethnically cleansed from Gaza.
> In 1921 the Jews were attacked, for being Jews.
> 
> 
> Tell any indigenous people, that some people who live in some of your ancestral land will attack you and want to kill you and watch them no take steps to protect themselves.
> 
> Terrorism is what Al Husseini did from the start of the Mandate for Palestine, telling the Jews that only a dead Jew, basically, was going to be allowed to live there is a sovereign Jewish state.
> 
> The Jews had to arm themselves, not only due to the Muslim attacks but because the British refused to protect them.
> 
> The same thing happened in Iraq in 1941 when the "Palestinian" leader Al Husseini went there and caused the Fahrud to happen to the Jewish population there.
> 
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> Read things as you like.  History is there, and it will not be destroyed.
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> Click to expand...
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> The Jewish terror gangs had killed over 500 British peacekeepers by 1947. They even murdered Count Bernadotte who had saved 30,000 Jews from the Holocaust.
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> Click to expand...
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> I posted about it in the link I posted above.  If you wish to discuss it.....
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> I agree  that it was disasterous. They left in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973.  If only they could have held on, but European Zionism was very contentious and aggressive. I have always said it was a huge loss for the Arab world.
Click to expand...

You are rewriting history.

Israel is made of Ashkenazi, Sepharadi and Mizrahi Jews. Always has been because Jews have been moving back and forth for thousands of years, always returning to their homeland, and whenever they could, holding on to their religion, their culture, and the dream of returning to their homeland and being sovereign over it again.

The main people responsible for the majority of Arabs leaving in those years are their leaders, who could not stand the idea of a sovereign Jewish state, and even fought other Arab tribes which wanted to live in peace with the Jews earlier in the 1920s.

And the main leader and tribe responsible for this is called Al-Husseini who lied about what the Jews were going to do, kill the Arabs, and incited them at every turn.

But, Zionism goes back as far as the time in Egypt, longing to be returned to their homeland.





__





						History of Zionism - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Continued.....


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here is one of the reasons the Zionist Organization was finally formed:

Jewish Persecution in Syria

Jews in Syria suffered some of the worst oppression under Muslim rule of any of the ancient Jewish communities - who existed in the Middle East even before the Muslim conquests in the region. This is their story, a story of struggle and oppression, for which reparations have not been made to this day by Syria or the Arab League.

As we lead up to the memorial day for the Jewish refugees from Arab countries, we share the stories of the ancient Jewish communities who were virtually wiped out by racism, extremism and violence in the Middle East.


------------------
(At the same time, this was happening in Europe)


But Lueger would herald the coming 20th century in another, more ominous manner: He demagogically described the Jews as a cabal controlling Europe and as the central threat facing European civilization. “The influence of the masses,” Lueger inveighed in one speech, “is in the hands of the Jews, the greater part of the press is in their hands, by far the largest part of all capital and, in particular high finance, is in Jewish hands, and in this respect the Jews operate a terrorism that could hardly be worse.” Austria’s goal, Lueger argued, must be “liberating Christian people from the hegemony of Jewry.”
​Lueger’s anti-Semitic diatribes earned him the adulation of the Austrian masses, among them a young man by the name of Adolf Hitler who studied in Vienna during the mayor’s administration. Hitler would cite Lueger as his role model and make special mention of Der Schone Karl in his own memoir, _Mein_ _Kampf_: “I regard this man as the greatest German mayor of all time. If Dr. Karl Lueger had lived in Germany, he would have been ranked among the great minds of our people.” Knowing this lends an extraordinarily eerie perspective to Herzl’s own description in his diary of Karl Lueger on the hustings:
-----
Thus it can be said that, in 1895, Vienna’s leader taught Hitler his insidious craft and also inspired Herzl’s Zionist dream. Others had already written of a restored Jewish society, but Herzl became convinced that only as a genuinely political movement could Zionism succeed. “What,” Herzl wrote immediately after Lueger’s election, “is a flag? A pole and a piece of cloth? No Sir. A flag is greater than this. With a flag people are led to where you want, even to the chosen land. For a flag, people live and die. It is the one thing people are willing to die for.”

(full article online)









						How Chancellor Kurz Redeemed Vienna
					

As Hamas fired missile after missile into Israel, the Internet was inundated with celebrity condemnations of the Jewish state and misinformation from the media. Yet one pro-Israel image strikingly stood




					www.commentarymagazine.com
				




----------------------------------------------------------

(The Jewish People were getting it in Europe and the Middle East.  
Some in both religions were telling the Jews, and acting on it with Pogroms, that they did not belong and could never belong)

n 1862 Moses Hess, a former associate of Karl Marx and Frederich Engels, wrote _Rome and Jerusalem. The Last National Question_ calling for the Jews to create a socialist state in Palestine as a means of settling the Jewish question. Also in 1862, German Orthodox Rabbi Kalischer published his tractate _Derishat Zion_, arguing that the salvation of the Jews, promised by the Prophets, can come about only by self-help.[13] In 1882, after the Odessa pogrom, Judah Leib Pinsker published the pamphlet _Auto-Emancipation_ (self-emancipation), arguing that Jews could only be truly free in their own country and analyzing the persistent tendency of Europeans to regard Jews as aliens:



> "Since the Jew is nowhere at home, nowhere regarded as a native, he remains an alien everywhere. That he himself and his ancestors as well are born in the country does not alter this fact in the least... to the living the Jew is a corpse, to the native a foreigner, to the homesteader a vagrant, to the proprietary a beggar, to the poor an exploiter and a millionaire, to the patriot a man without a country, for all a hated rival."[14]







__





						History of Zionism - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




-------------------------------------------------
Continued....


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## Sixties Fan

So, imagine the Europeans moving in waves into the Americas and taking over the land of its indigenous people.

Imagine that many of those Europeans saw those nations as inferior to them.

Imagine that many of those Nations had to find a way to defend their territory and especially defend themselves from those who wanted to wipe them out.  What they ended up doing was arming themselves, fighting the European invasion as best they could, and protect their land and their people.

Imagine, General George Custer and how he ended up being killed by the very people he wanted to wipe out.

This is what was happening in Palestine.  The difference being that the Muslims had invaded 1400 years ago, and not 400 years ago.

After being treated like parasites, to be done with what some wanted to do with them, the Jews in the 19th century, especially after seeing that the Age of Enlightenment did not enlighten the Europeans to stop with their Jew hatred, began to move in large numbers back to their ancient homeland.

Then came the Dreyfus Affair, and the Damascus Affair, which are two of the events which led to some Jews to realize that they needed to plan how to legally achieve sovereignty over their ancient homeland.

They knew it would not be easy.  They had the support of some Arab tribes in Palestine.
But the Husseini clan was extremist and would not accept it.  And the British, after helping with the Balfour Declaration, went back on their word, one step at a time.

The British had a second Mandate, in Iraq.  They equally sat silent as the Jews were attacked there in 1941, by Al Husseini and the Iraqis he incited against those Jews, who had nothing to do with the Mandate for Palestine.









						The Farhoud Remembered
					

Seventy-six years after the mass massacre of the Baghdad Jews, in which the then-leader of the Palestinian Arabs, Hajj Amin Husseini, was deeply involved, his heirs to the Palestinian leadership still




					besacenter.org
				






Unlike Custer, Al Husseini escaped being arrested for all the Jews he incited against, be it in Mandated Palestine, or Mandated Iraq.


The other biggest losers in Al Husseini's extremist behavior were the Arabs and others who lived on the land, or who had immigrated there since the late 1900s.  

The Arab leaders promised a Jew Free Palestine for those in the southern part, and scared them with the idea that the Jews would have done to them exactly what the Muslims had done to the Jews in Hebron in 1929.


That is what happened in 1947-48.

The Arab leaders are also responsible for wanting more land, after taking Judea and Samaria and Gaza in 1948.  Which is what led to the Jordanians again, and others to attack Israel.  

The non Jewish population in the north of Israel, like Haifa, was asked to stay, and they stayed, and continue to live there to this day.

I do not know what Arabs you are talking about who were made to leave their homes in 1956, 1967 or 1973, unless they fled out of fear, which will happen whenever any war is declared.


Israel did not kick out any population out of Judea and Samaria once it won it in the 1967 war which was started by the Arab countries.  The Arab, and others, population continues to live there.
The Jews are the ones who were kicked out of those areas in 1948, as others had been in 1920 in Gaza, 1929 in Hebron, and 1925 from TranJordan.

I do not hear you being upset about Jews being ethnically cleansed from their ancient homeland.  Others who view the Jews as being "Europeans" show the same lack of empathy for the Jews, which they choose to show for the ones who do not want the Jews to be a free people, on their own ancient homeland.

So, history is ignored or rewritten and numbers used to show "proof" that the Jews did not have the right to the land.


That is the premise of The Right to Destroy Jewish History.

Because it is meant to destroy the Jewish people for good.


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## Sixties Fan

The PA TV video shows a woman who apparently represents "ancient Palestinians" (or possibly Muslims) going through the history of the land - replacing the Jewish people's actual history. The woman is introduced in a peaceful scene feeding birds in a period predating the Roman conquest of Judea and destruction of the Temple in 70 CE. Suddenly the scene is disturbed, the birds scatter and the woman runs away from various foreign invaders: first an ancient Roman soldier, then a Crusader, then a British soldier, and finally a Jew (wearing a skullcap), who throws a lit cigarette at her. In the final scene, the woman stops fleeing when a man on a horse - the "new" Muslim conqueror Saladin who defeated the Crusaders - extends his hand and helps her up the mountain. He represents the coming savior who will "liberate Palestine" from Jewish-Israeli rule. In the end, the woman stands on the top of the mountain, fleeing no one anymore, symbolizing that Israel is gone like the other foreign rulers. As mentioned, the woman seems to represent a fictitious ancient Palestinian people and the other figures symbolize different foreign rulers in the land of Israel. Jews/Israelis are portrayed as the current foreigners, who will be defeated like the Romans, the Crusaders and the British.

_Note: The video originally aired March 2, 2012. It was rebroadcast on both PA TV and PA TV Live at least 18 times in 2012, 54 times in 2013, 44 times in 2014, 42 times in 2015, 24 times in 2016, 22 times in 2017, 9 times in 2018, and 4 times in 2019, most recently on Nov. 24, 2019. It was broadcast on Fatah-run Awdah TV twice on Jan. 8, 2016, and 6 times in 2017, most recently PA TV Live June 15, 2020_











						PA TV portrays Israel as foreign colonial occupier, claims ancient Jewish history is Palestinian | PMW Translations
					

The PA TV video shows a woman who represents "ancient Palestinians" going through the history of the land - replacing the Jewish people's actual history.




					palwatch.org


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## Sixties Fan

Recently, Palestinian Authority TV News exemplified the PA policy of *denying the existence of any Jewish history* in Jerusalem. In a report about Israel's excavations on the Temple Mount exposing part of the Western Wall, the government-controlled PA TV stated:
"There's [an Israeli] race against the clock to complete the excavations in search of [Jerusalem's] Temple that exists only in the minds of radical organizations."

*Click to view*

*Palestinian Media Watch* has documented the PA's continued denial of Jewish history and particularly its denial of the existence of the Temple, referring to it as the "*alleged Temple*." To prove their claim to the land, the PA actively rejects all Jewish history in the land of Israel, inventing an *ancient Palestinian history* in its stead. The PA accuses Israel of *stealing Palestinian heritage*, claiming that it does not have any history on its own.

PMW has also documented how Israel's excavations of the Western Wall near the Al-Aqsa Mosque are presented by the PA as part of an Israeli plan to *destroy the Al-Aqsa Mosque*.

_*Following is the excerpt from PA TV News denying Jewish history in Jerusalem:*

PA TV newsreader: _"Deep underground beneath the Al-Aqsa Mosque, there's [an Israeli] race against the clock to complete the excavations in search of [Jerusalem's] Temple that exists only in the minds of radical organizations. These images reveal the extent of the excavations. ... Here, you can see an underground city excavated by Jewish radical organizations. They falsify historical facts by linking them to Jewish history, the traces of which don't exist in our land."
[PA TV (Fatah), Oct. 25, 2012]









						PA TV News: No trace of Jewish history in "our land" | PMW Analysis
					

PA TV continues to deny Jewish history in Jerusalem and accuses Israel of "falsify[ing] historical facts by linking them to Jewish history." (Nov. 12, 2012)




					palwatch.org


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

On Saturday, _HS Insider_ gave a platform to an article titled, “_The story behind #istandwithpalestine_,” written by a Fountain Valley High School student. Virtually every paragraph of the 980-word piece misrepresents the facts and contains historical falsehoods, raising questions about the _LA Times_‘ commitment to educating future journalists.

For example, the article begins by placing blame on the Jewish state for the War of Independence. “The conflict began in 1948 when Israel went to war with neighboring Arab countries of Jordan, Syria and Egypt,” it claims.

In reality, the Arab armies initiated an all-out attack on the Jewish state on June 15, 1948, barely a day after Israel declared independence. Six months earlier, the Arabs had rejected the UN Partition Plan, which endorsed the creation of Jewish and Arab states side by side. The Yishuv — the Jewish community in what was then-British-controlled Mandatory Palestine — accepted the proposal whereas Arab nations rejected it.

Similarly, the article in question rewrites the history of Hamas’ evolution: “Hamas, which translates to Islamic Resistance Movement, has been identified as an Islamist, militant and nationalist group that has been launching attacks against Israel from residential areas since the 1980s in hopes of restoring the power Palestine once had.”

Describing Hamas’ aim as simply interested in “restoring the power Palestine once had” is misleading on two counts. First, the US-designated terrorist organization’s genocidal charter (1988) calls for the destruction of Israel and the murder of Jews worldwide. Second, there has never been any sovereign state named “Palestine.”

The piece also falsely blames the Second Intifada — the Palestinian terror wave that rocked Israel between 2000 and 2005 — on then-Likud leader and future prime minister Ariel Sharon. The author maintains that his visit to “Islam’s third holiest site, Temple Mount at Jerusalem [sic]” sparked the Intifada, eventually “causing the Palestinians to take Hamas as their leader.”

(full article online)









						Los Angeles Times Program Allows Future 'Storytellers' to Get the Story on Israel Wrong | Honest Reporting
					

Essays like "The story behind #istandwithpalestine," in addition to others, clearly do not meet the ethics guidelines of the outlet.




					honestreporting.com


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## Sixties Fan

But revisionist history now happens during the news cycle itself.

Here is a summary of the May Gaza war as described by anIranian news site:




> The Israeli regime launched a brutal bombing campaign against the besieged Gaza Strip on May 10, following Palestinian retaliation against violent raids on worshipers at al-Aqsa Mosque and the regime’s plans to force a number of Palestinian families out of their homes at the Sheikh Jarrah neighborhood of East Jerusalem al-Quds.
> 
> According to Gaza’s Health Ministry, 260 Palestinians were killed in the Israeli offensive, including 66 children and 40 women. At least 1,948 others were also wounded.
> 
> In response, Palestinian resistance movements, chief among them Hamas, launched Operation al-Quds Sword and fired more than 4,000 rockets and missiles into the occupied territories, killing 12 Israelis.
> 
> Apparently caught off guard by the unprecedented barrage of rockets from Gaza, Israel announced a unilateral ceasefire on May 21, which Palestinian resistance movements accepted with Egyptian mediation.



It even contradicts itself - did Hamas fire rockets to protect Jerusalem, or in response to Israel bombing Gaza? Neither of those are true yet both are side by side here.

This is revisionist history being created in real time. 

(full article online)









						Revisionist history now being created in real time
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Mindful

Jerusalem.
i24 News – Archeologists from the Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA) unveiled Thursday, impressive underground constructions dating from the end of the Second Temple period (beginning 1st century CE), and located in the Old City of Jerusalem.

With a luxurious lobby, parts of which the IAA has already revealed, the edifice includes a sophisticated fountain and was likely used for banquets and other gatherings of the local elite or to receive foreign dignitaries within walking distance of the Temple.















						‘Magnificent’ 2,000-Year-Old Public Building Unearthed Near Western Wall
					

Remains of a 2000-year-old building recently excavated near the Western Wall in Jerusalem.Photo: Yaniv Berman / Israel Antiquities Authority i24 …




					www.algemeiner.com


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## Sixties Fan

Islamic Jihad's Palestine Today has released a slideshow/video called "How did Israeli propaganda start?"

It starts off with this picture of a page from the Talmud (not the tractate named, oddly) with the caption "The Israeli propaganda began to exploit the falsified religious tenets by resorting to the Talmud and the Torah":





It goes on to claim that the Zionists somehow managed to fool the Jews about what their own religion says and convinced them that they had roots in Israel, making up the phrase "a land of milk and honey."

The insidious propaganda continued as the Jews then even convinced the Western world that Jews came from Israel!

(full article online)









						Islamic Jihad releases antisemitic video about how Jews lie about their ties to Israel
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## watchingfromafar

*The Right To Destroy Jewish History

History is the written record of the past. *You can not change what has already occurred. You can try to twist it, bend it or deny it but the truth always comes out in the end.
-


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## MJB12741

surada said:


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> Arafat invented them.
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> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
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> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
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> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
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> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
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> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
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> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
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> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
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> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
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> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
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> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
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> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
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> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
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> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
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> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
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> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
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> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
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> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
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> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
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> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
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> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
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> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
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> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
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> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
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> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
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> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
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> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
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> Arabs were in Palestine long before Islam, stupid. Haven't you read any of this thread?
Click to expand...

Yes Dopey, Arabs were in Palestine before Islam.  But the overwhelming majority of today's Muslim Palestinians are just land thieves with no titles or deeds whatsoever to the land they stole.


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## watchingfromafar

Sixties Fan said:


> The insidious propaganda continued as the Jews then even convinced the Western world that Jews came from Israel!


*The Right To Destroy Jewish History

History is the written record of the past*. You can not change what has already occurred. You can try to twist it, bend it or deny it but the truth always comes out in the end.

There are two families of Jews.

[1] The ones who call themselves, Jews, who believe in the rule of law and most of all obey the Ten Commandments.
[2] Jews that call themselves Israelis, who steal, lie and murder to get what was not theirs in the first place.

One group above will fade away, shrink from within until there is none left.

Can you guess which one will flourish, multiply and be welcomed by the stranger-?


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## watchingfromafar

MJB12741 said:


> Palestinians are just land thieves with no titles or deeds whatsoever to the land they stole.


*MJB12741*, how many children have you murdered?

idf shooting children - Google Search

-


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## MJB12741

watchingfromafar said:


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> *MJB12741*, how many children have you murdered?
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> idf shooting children - Google Search
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> -
Click to expand...

Let me dumb it down for you. When Israeli's are attacked, Israel will retaliate.  If you don't want dead Palestinians, don't kill any Israeli's.  Get it yet?


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## Sixties Fan

MJB12741 said:


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> *MJB12741*, how many children have you murdered?
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> idf shooting children - Google Search
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> -
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> Click to expand...
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> Let me dumb it down for you. When Israeli's are attacked, Israel will retaliate.  If you don't want dead Palestinians, don't kill any Israeli's.  Get it yet?
Click to expand...

Oh, please, let us not answer this loser.
There are "good Jews", outside of Israel, and "Bad Jews", the Israelis.

Enough said?


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## The Sage of Main Street

Roudy said:


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> Roudy said:
> 
> 
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> surada said:
> 
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> 
> Roudy said:
> 
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> 
> surada said:
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> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> When academics call Israel a "settler colonial" state, it is meant to isolate the Jewish state from the legitimate family of nations. Yet historically, colonies have related to a mother country. The Puritans saw themselves as English, Afrikaaners as Dutch, Muslim conquerors as Arabs. They spoke the mother country's language and attempted to transfer its culture to their new land.
> 
> The early, pre-state Zionists, however, sought to escape Europe, not to replicate it. They rejected Yiddish and adopted an old Middle East language - Hebrew - which they updated for modern purposes, while changing their German or Russian-sounding names.
> 
> Central to the Zionist enterprise was the conviction that they were returning home. No other transplanted society made such a claim. Jews had lived in the area continuously for thousands of years. The Hebrew language is Semitic, not Indo-European. Ancient Jewish artifacts could be found everywhere.
> 
> It is therefore more accurate to see Zionism as a form of nationalism - and Zionists as fulfilling a people's aspiration for self-determination in what they regard as their own land.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Israel really a settler colonial state? | Opinion
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course its nationalism. Colonial settlers? Well, they don't allow Palestinians to return to their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians can't go back to their ancestral homelands of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia etc. because even the Arabs scoffed at the existence of a Palestinian when the idea came up.  In fact calling an Arab Muslim was an insult pre 1948 before Arafat hijacked the name, because it referred to the Jews of the region.  Your whole cause is a hoax.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were not from Saudi Arabia, Syria or Egypt. What on earth?
> 
> They are descended from the first century Jews who stayed behind.. That's why 90% of them share Jewish dna.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamonazi logic at its finest. Jews are the closest descendants of ancient Jews, not Arab Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You moron. Abraham had an Arab wife named Keturah and Moses had an Arab wife named Zipporah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well if you're going by what the real story is, Abraham had a son from Sara's handmaiden named Ishmael (or Esmael as you Muslims call him), that God called a violent unruly wild ass who's decendants will be at war with everbody, and commanded Abraham to kick him out of his house after Issac was born, to which God's promise of Israel and the Covenant  went to.
> 
> You guys never mention that because it is the same foresaken Ishmael that Mohammad decided he is a decendant of.  Seems like advanced DNA testing going back thousands of years existed among the moon worshipping tribes of 14th century Saudi Arabia.
Click to expand...

*History Leaves Clues; Historians Leave Confusion*

Just because the Hebrews spoke a Semitic language doesn't mean that they are Semites.  Jews and Arabs are so completely different that common sense would make us realize that they are no more related than American English-speakers must be of English descent.

In different chapters, the Bible gives two contradictory descriptions of Ishmael, the legendary founder of the Arab race.  One is that he was a thrill-killing psycho; the other that he was a great leader.  Continual historical events would assign a conclusion that the Hebrews were under an Arab Captivity and forced to learn a Semitic language and write propaganda in it. Since they originated in Sumeria, their original language was probably Indo-European (yes, disciples, that means "Aryan"!)


----------



## The Sage of Main Street

Sixties Fan said:


> So, imagine the Europeans moving in waves into the Americas and taking over the land of its indigenous people.
> 
> Imagine that many of those Europeans saw those nations as inferior to them.
> 
> Imagine that many of those Nations had to find a way to defend their territory and especially defend themselves from those who wanted to wipe them out.  What they ended up doing was arming themselves, fighting the European invasion as best they could, and protect their land and their people.
> 
> Imagine, General George Custer and how he ended up being killed by the very people he wanted to wipe out.
> 
> This is what was happening in Palestine.  The difference being that the Muslims had invaded 1400 years ago, and not 400 years ago.
> 
> After being treated like parasites, to be done with what some wanted to do with them, the Jews in the 19th century, especially after seeing that the Age of Enlightenment did not enlighten the Europeans to stop with their Jew hatred, began to move in large numbers back to their ancient homeland.
> 
> Then came the Dreyfus Affair, and the Damascus Affair, which are two of the events which led to some Jews to realize that they needed to plan how to legally achieve sovereignty over their ancient homeland.
> 
> They knew it would not be easy.  They had the support of some Arab tribes in Palestine.
> But the Husseini clan was extremist and would not accept it.  And the British, after helping with the Balfour Declaration, went back on their word, one step at a time.
> 
> The British had a second Mandate, in Iraq.  They equally sat silent as the Jews were attacked there in 1941, by Al Husseini and the Iraqis he incited against those Jews, who had nothing to do with the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Farhoud Remembered
> 
> 
> Seventy-six years after the mass massacre of the Baghdad Jews, in which the then-leader of the Palestinian Arabs, Hajj Amin Husseini, was deeply involved, his heirs to the Palestinian leadership still
> 
> 
> 
> 
> besacenter.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike Custer, Al Husseini escaped being arrested for all the Jews he incited against, be it in Mandated Palestine, or Mandated Iraq.
> 
> 
> The other biggest losers in Al Husseini's extremist behavior were the Arabs and others who lived on the land, or who had immigrated there since the late 1900s.
> 
> The Arab leaders promised a Jew Free Palestine for those in the southern part, and scared them with the idea that the Jews would have done to them exactly what the Muslims had done to the Jews in Hebron in 1929.
> 
> 
> That is what happened in 1947-48.
> 
> The Arab leaders are also responsible for wanting more land, after taking Judea and Samaria and Gaza in 1948.  Which is what led to the Jordanians again, and others to attack Israel.
> 
> The non Jewish population in the north of Israel, like Haifa, was asked to stay, and they stayed, and continue to live there to this day.
> 
> I do not know what Arabs you are talking about who were made to leave their homes in 1956, 1967 or 1973, unless they fled out of fear, which will happen whenever any war is declared.
> 
> 
> Israel did not kick out any population out of Judea and Samaria once it won it in the 1967 war which was started by the Arab countries.  The Arab, and others, population continues to live there.
> The Jews are the ones who were kicked out of those areas in 1948, as others had been in 1920 in Gaza, 1929 in Hebron, and 1925 from TranJordan.
> 
> I do not hear you being upset about Jews being ethnically cleansed from their ancient homeland.  Others who view the Jews as being "Europeans" show the same lack of empathy for the Jews, which they choose to show for the ones who do not want the Jews to be a free people, on their own ancient homeland.
> 
> So, history is ignored or rewritten and numbers used to show "proof" that the Jews did not have the right to the land.
> 
> 
> That is the premise of The Right to Destroy Jewish History.
> 
> Because it is meant to destroy the Jewish people for good.


*Daniel Boonestein*

Politically correct, but backwards.  The Arab savages are like the American Indian savages.  Evolution demanded that both races had to be evicted in order for advanced races to create prosperity and security for the whole world.  Both inferior races were nothing but bandit tribes, a perpetual threat to human civilization.

Before the Jews came back, the Holy Land was nothing more than a pit stop for desert bandits.  American Indians were also criminal tribes on the run from advanced Asian justice.  A hideout is not a homeland.


----------



## surada

MJB12741 said:


> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Mindful said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Roudy said:
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> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine long before Islam, stupid. Haven't you read any of this thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes Dopey, Arabs were in Palestine before Islam.  But the overwhelming majority of today's Muslim Palestinians are just land thieves with no titles or deeds whatsoever to the land they stole.
Click to expand...


Oh for heaven's sake.. The Arabs have been in Palestine more than 2000 years. They didn'tmove in from Poland. Russia, Germany etc.


----------



## surada

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, imagine the Europeans moving in waves into the Americas and taking over the land of its indigenous people.
> 
> Imagine that many of those Europeans saw those nations as inferior to them.
> 
> Imagine that many of those Nations had to find a way to defend their territory and especially defend themselves from those who wanted to wipe them out.  What they ended up doing was arming themselves, fighting the European invasion as best they could, and protect their land and their people.
> 
> Imagine, General George Custer and how he ended up being killed by the very people he wanted to wipe out.
> 
> This is what was happening in Palestine.  The difference being that the Muslims had invaded 1400 years ago, and not 400 years ago.
> 
> After being treated like parasites, to be done with what some wanted to do with them, the Jews in the 19th century, especially after seeing that the Age of Enlightenment did not enlighten the Europeans to stop with their Jew hatred, began to move in large numbers back to their ancient homeland.
> 
> Then came the Dreyfus Affair, and the Damascus Affair, which are two of the events which led to some Jews to realize that they needed to plan how to legally achieve sovereignty over their ancient homeland.
> 
> They knew it would not be easy.  They had the support of some Arab tribes in Palestine.
> But the Husseini clan was extremist and would not accept it.  And the British, after helping with the Balfour Declaration, went back on their word, one step at a time.
> 
> The British had a second Mandate, in Iraq.  They equally sat silent as the Jews were attacked there in 1941, by Al Husseini and the Iraqis he incited against those Jews, who had nothing to do with the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Farhoud Remembered
> 
> 
> Seventy-six years after the mass massacre of the Baghdad Jews, in which the then-leader of the Palestinian Arabs, Hajj Amin Husseini, was deeply involved, his heirs to the Palestinian leadership still
> 
> 
> 
> 
> besacenter.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike Custer, Al Husseini escaped being arrested for all the Jews he incited against, be it in Mandated Palestine, or Mandated Iraq.
> 
> 
> The other biggest losers in Al Husseini's extremist behavior were the Arabs and others who lived on the land, or who had immigrated there since the late 1900s.
> 
> The Arab leaders promised a Jew Free Palestine for those in the southern part, and scared them with the idea that the Jews would have done to them exactly what the Muslims had done to the Jews in Hebron in 1929.
> 
> 
> That is what happened in 1947-48.
> 
> The Arab leaders are also responsible for wanting more land, after taking Judea and Samaria and Gaza in 1948.  Which is what led to the Jordanians again, and others to attack Israel.
> 
> The non Jewish population in the north of Israel, like Haifa, was asked to stay, and they stayed, and continue to live there to this day.
> 
> I do not know what Arabs you are talking about who were made to leave their homes in 1956, 1967 or 1973, unless they fled out of fear, which will happen whenever any war is declared.
> 
> 
> Israel did not kick out any population out of Judea and Samaria once it won it in the 1967 war which was started by the Arab countries.  The Arab, and others, population continues to live there.
> The Jews are the ones who were kicked out of those areas in 1948, as others had been in 1920 in Gaza, 1929 in Hebron, and 1925 from TranJordan.
> 
> I do not hear you being upset about Jews being ethnically cleansed from their ancient homeland.  Others who view the Jews as being "Europeans" show the same lack of empathy for the Jews, which they choose to show for the ones who do not want the Jews to be a free people, on their own ancient homeland.
> 
> So, history is ignored or rewritten and numbers used to show "proof" that the Jews did not have the right to the land.
> 
> 
> That is the premise of The Right to Destroy Jewish History.
> 
> Because it is meant to destroy the Jewish people for good.
> 
> 
> 
> *Daniel Boonestein*
> 
> Politically correct, but backwards.  The Arab savages are like the American Indian savages.  Evolution demanded that both races had to be evicted in order for advanced races to create prosperity and security for the whole world.  Both inferior races were nothing but bandit tribes, a perpetual threat to human civilization.
> 
> Before the Jews came back, the Holy Land was nothing more than a pit stop for desert bandits.  American Indians were also criminal tribes on the run from advanced Asian justice.  A hideout is not a homeland.
Click to expand...


Really? Have you forgotten about the German dairy farms?


----------



## surada

MJB12741 said:


> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians are just land thieves with no titles or deeds whatsoever to the land they stole.
> 
> 
> 
> *MJB12741*, how many children have you murdered?
> 
> idf shooting children - Google Search
> 
> -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me dumb it down for you. When Israeli's are attacked, Israel will retaliate.  If you don't want dead Palestinians, don't kill any Israeli's.  Get it yet?
Click to expand...


Israelis attacked the Al Aqsa  mosque last month.


----------



## surada

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, imagine the Europeans moving in waves into the Americas and taking over the land of its indigenous people.
> 
> Imagine that many of those Europeans saw those nations as inferior to them.
> 
> Imagine that many of those Nations had to find a way to defend their territory and especially defend themselves from those who wanted to wipe them out.  What they ended up doing was arming themselves, fighting the European invasion as best they could, and protect their land and their people.
> 
> Imagine, General George Custer and how he ended up being killed by the very people he wanted to wipe out.
> 
> This is what was happening in Palestine.  The difference being that the Muslims had invaded 1400 years ago, and not 400 years ago.
> 
> After being treated like parasites, to be done with what some wanted to do with them, the Jews in the 19th century, especially after seeing that the Age of Enlightenment did not enlighten the Europeans to stop with their Jew hatred, began to move in large numbers back to their ancient homeland.
> 
> Then came the Dreyfus Affair, and the Damascus Affair, which are two of the events which led to some Jews to realize that they needed to plan how to legally achieve sovereignty over their ancient homeland.
> 
> They knew it would not be easy.  They had the support of some Arab tribes in Palestine.
> But the Husseini clan was extremist and would not accept it.  And the British, after helping with the Balfour Declaration, went back on their word, one step at a time.
> 
> The British had a second Mandate, in Iraq.  They equally sat silent as the Jews were attacked there in 1941, by Al Husseini and the Iraqis he incited against those Jews, who had nothing to do with the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Farhoud Remembered
> 
> 
> Seventy-six years after the mass massacre of the Baghdad Jews, in which the then-leader of the Palestinian Arabs, Hajj Amin Husseini, was deeply involved, his heirs to the Palestinian leadership still
> 
> 
> 
> 
> besacenter.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike Custer, Al Husseini escaped being arrested for all the Jews he incited against, be it in Mandated Palestine, or Mandated Iraq.
> 
> 
> The other biggest losers in Al Husseini's extremist behavior were the Arabs and others who lived on the land, or who had immigrated there since the late 1900s.
> 
> The Arab leaders promised a Jew Free Palestine for those in the southern part, and scared them with the idea that the Jews would have done to them exactly what the Muslims had done to the Jews in Hebron in 1929.
> 
> 
> That is what happened in 1947-48.
> 
> The Arab leaders are also responsible for wanting more land, after taking Judea and Samaria and Gaza in 1948.  Which is what led to the Jordanians again, and others to attack Israel.
> 
> The non Jewish population in the north of Israel, like Haifa, was asked to stay, and they stayed, and continue to live there to this day.
> 
> I do not know what Arabs you are talking about who were made to leave their homes in 1956, 1967 or 1973, unless they fled out of fear, which will happen whenever any war is declared.
> 
> 
> Israel did not kick out any population out of Judea and Samaria once it won it in the 1967 war which was started by the Arab countries.  The Arab, and others, population continues to live there.
> The Jews are the ones who were kicked out of those areas in 1948, as others had been in 1920 in Gaza, 1929 in Hebron, and 1925 from TranJordan.
> 
> I do not hear you being upset about Jews being ethnically cleansed from their ancient homeland.  Others who view the Jews as being "Europeans" show the same lack of empathy for the Jews, which they choose to show for the ones who do not want the Jews to be a free people, on their own ancient homeland.
> 
> So, history is ignored or rewritten and numbers used to show "proof" that the Jews did not have the right to the land.
> 
> 
> That is the premise of The Right to Destroy Jewish History.
> 
> Because it is meant to destroy the Jewish people for good.
> 
> 
> 
> *Daniel Boonestein*
> 
> Politically correct, but backwards.  The Arab savages are like the American Indian savages.  Evolution demanded that both races had to be evicted in order for advanced races to create prosperity and security for the whole world.  Both inferior races were nothing but bandit tribes, a perpetual threat to human civilization.
> 
> Before the Jews came back, the Holy Land was nothing more than a pit stop for desert bandits.  American Indians were also criminal tribes on the run from advanced Asian justice.  A hideout is not a homeland.
Click to expand...


Are you a Christian?

Keturah had six sons: Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak and Shuah (Gen. 25 v 2). Here are the Hebrew meanings of their names in order: "musician", "snarer", "contention", "strife", "he releases", "wealth". The six sons represent the prophetic destiny of the descendants of Keturah in the Arab peninsula.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Today, on Tisha B'Av, Jews mourn the destruction of the first and second Temples in Jerusalem (586 BCE and 70 CE). However, the Palestinian Authority denies that there ever was a Temple, consistently referring to Solomon's Temple as "the alleged Temple." Moreover, the PA also teaches its people that there was never a Jewish history in Jerusalem. 

The Palestinian Authority claims persistently that Israel is "Judaizing" Jerusalem, as *Palestinian Media Watch* has documented. Israel is said to: 

- falsify historical artifacts in order to prove a "false" Jewish history in Jerusalem
- destroy Palestinian and Islamic relics and signs of an Arab presence in the city
- plot to take over and *destroy the Al-Aqsa Mosque* in order to rebuild the "alleged Temple"
 in its stead

The cartoon above published by Fatah captures this Palestinian narrative. Israeli soldiers are shooting their rifles and rolling a Torah scroll over the word "Jerusalem" which is bloodstained. 
[July 13, 2015] Israel is said to be forcing a fake Jewish history on Jerusalem.

Five recent PA TV programs repeated these historical revisions:

1. PA Deputy Minister of Jerusalem Affairs Salwa Hadib recently declared that "the Palestinian people has been present in it [Jerusalem] for thousands of years... centuries before the Jewish religion." She also claimed that Israelis "are stealing history and geography":

(full article online)





__





						PA: Jerusalem never had a Jewish Temple | PMW Analysis
					

The Palestinian Authority claims persistently that Israel is “Judaizing” Jerusalem. (July 26, 2015)




					palwatch.org


----------



## MJB12741

Sixties Fan said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians are just land thieves with no titles or deeds whatsoever to the land they stole.
> 
> 
> 
> *MJB12741*, how many children have you murdered?
> 
> idf shooting children - Google Search
> 
> -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me dumb it down for you. When Israeli's are attacked, Israel will retaliate.  If you don't want dead Palestinians, don't kill any Israeli's.  Get it yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, please, let us not answer this loser.
> There are "good Jews", outside of Israel, and "Bad Jews", the Israelis.
> 
> Enough said?
Click to expand...

He needs to start a new movement --- LLM --- Loser's Lives Matter.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Today, on Tisha B'Av, Jews mourn the destruction of the first and second Temples in Jerusalem (586 BCE and 70 CE). However, the Palestinian Authority denies that there ever was a Temple, consistently referring to Solomon's Temple as "the alleged Temple." Moreover, the PA also teaches its people that there was never a Jewish history in Jerusalem.
> 
> The Palestinian Authority claims persistently that Israel is "Judaizing" Jerusalem, as *Palestinian Media Watch* has documented. Israel is said to:
> 
> - falsify historical artifacts in order to prove a "false" Jewish history in Jerusalem
> - destroy Palestinian and Islamic relics and signs of an Arab presence in the city
> - plot to take over and *destroy the Al-Aqsa Mosque* in order to rebuild the "alleged Temple"
> in its stead
> 
> The cartoon above published by Fatah captures this Palestinian narrative. Israeli soldiers are shooting their rifles and rolling a Torah scroll over the word "Jerusalem" which is bloodstained.
> [July 13, 2015] Israel is said to be forcing a fake Jewish history on Jerusalem.
> 
> Five recent PA TV programs repeated these historical revisions:
> 
> 1. PA Deputy Minister of Jerusalem Affairs Salwa Hadib recently declared that "the Palestinian people has been present in it [Jerusalem] for thousands of years... centuries before the Jewish religion." She also claimed that Israelis "are stealing history and geography":
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA: Jerusalem never had a Jewish Temple | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority claims persistently that Israel is “Judaizing” Jerusalem. (July 26, 2015)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org




W


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> MJB12741 said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine long before Islam, stupid. Haven't you read any of this thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes Dopey, Arabs were in Palestine before Islam.  But the overwhelming majority of today's Muslim Palestinians are just land thieves with no titles or deeds whatsoever to the land they stole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh for heaven's sake.. The Arabs have been in Palestine more than 2000 years. They didn'tmove in from Poland. Russia, Germany etc.
Click to expand...

Arabs came from the same countries they've expelled Jews.

Most of them came less than a century ago, hence even their
entire refugee welfare fraud is based on a mere  "2 years of residency".


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians are just land thieves with no titles or deeds whatsoever to the land they stole.
> 
> 
> 
> *MJB12741*, how many children have you murdered?
> 
> idf shooting children - Google Search
> 
> -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me dumb it down for you. When Israeli's are attacked, Israel will retaliate.  If you don't want dead Palestinians, don't kill any Israeli's.  Get it yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis attacked the Al Aqsa  mosque last month.
Click to expand...

More like your cretin ilk
almost burned down a mosque
trying to shoot fireworks at Jews praying in Jerusalem.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> The Sage of Main Street said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, imagine the Europeans moving in waves into the Americas and taking over the land of its indigenous people.
> 
> Imagine that many of those Europeans saw those nations as inferior to them.
> 
> Imagine that many of those Nations had to find a way to defend their territory and especially defend themselves from those who wanted to wipe them out.  What they ended up doing was arming themselves, fighting the European invasion as best they could, and protect their land and their people.
> 
> Imagine, General George Custer and how he ended up being killed by the very people he wanted to wipe out.
> 
> This is what was happening in Palestine.  The difference being that the Muslims had invaded 1400 years ago, and not 400 years ago.
> 
> After being treated like parasites, to be done with what some wanted to do with them, the Jews in the 19th century, especially after seeing that the Age of Enlightenment did not enlighten the Europeans to stop with their Jew hatred, began to move in large numbers back to their ancient homeland.
> 
> Then came the Dreyfus Affair, and the Damascus Affair, which are two of the events which led to some Jews to realize that they needed to plan how to legally achieve sovereignty over their ancient homeland.
> 
> They knew it would not be easy.  They had the support of some Arab tribes in Palestine.
> But the Husseini clan was extremist and would not accept it.  And the British, after helping with the Balfour Declaration, went back on their word, one step at a time.
> 
> The British had a second Mandate, in Iraq.  They equally sat silent as the Jews were attacked there in 1941, by Al Husseini and the Iraqis he incited against those Jews, who had nothing to do with the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Farhoud Remembered
> 
> 
> Seventy-six years after the mass massacre of the Baghdad Jews, in which the then-leader of the Palestinian Arabs, Hajj Amin Husseini, was deeply involved, his heirs to the Palestinian leadership still
> 
> 
> 
> 
> besacenter.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike Custer, Al Husseini escaped being arrested for all the Jews he incited against, be it in Mandated Palestine, or Mandated Iraq.
> 
> 
> The other biggest losers in Al Husseini's extremist behavior were the Arabs and others who lived on the land, or who had immigrated there since the late 1900s.
> 
> The Arab leaders promised a Jew Free Palestine for those in the southern part, and scared them with the idea that the Jews would have done to them exactly what the Muslims had done to the Jews in Hebron in 1929.
> 
> 
> That is what happened in 1947-48.
> 
> The Arab leaders are also responsible for wanting more land, after taking Judea and Samaria and Gaza in 1948.  Which is what led to the Jordanians again, and others to attack Israel.
> 
> The non Jewish population in the north of Israel, like Haifa, was asked to stay, and they stayed, and continue to live there to this day.
> 
> I do not know what Arabs you are talking about who were made to leave their homes in 1956, 1967 or 1973, unless they fled out of fear, which will happen whenever any war is declared.
> 
> 
> Israel did not kick out any population out of Judea and Samaria once it won it in the 1967 war which was started by the Arab countries.  The Arab, and others, population continues to live there.
> The Jews are the ones who were kicked out of those areas in 1948, as others had been in 1920 in Gaza, 1929 in Hebron, and 1925 from TranJordan.
> 
> I do not hear you being upset about Jews being ethnically cleansed from their ancient homeland.  Others who view the Jews as being "Europeans" show the same lack of empathy for the Jews, which they choose to show for the ones who do not want the Jews to be a free people, on their own ancient homeland.
> 
> So, history is ignored or rewritten and numbers used to show "proof" that the Jews did not have the right to the land.
> 
> 
> That is the premise of The Right to Destroy Jewish History.
> 
> Because it is meant to destroy the Jewish people for good.
> 
> 
> 
> *Daniel Boonestein*
> 
> Politically correct, but backwards.  The Arab savages are like the American Indian savages.  Evolution demanded that both races had to be evicted in order for advanced races to create prosperity and security for the whole world.  Both inferior races were nothing but bandit tribes, a perpetual threat to human civilization.
> 
> Before the Jews came back, the Holy Land was nothing more than a pit stop for desert bandits.  American Indians were also criminal tribes on the run from advanced Asian justice.  A hideout is not a homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you a Christian?
> 
> Keturah had six sons: Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak and Shuah (Gen. 25 v 2). Here are the Hebrew meanings of their names in order: "musician", "snarer", "contention", "strife", "he releases", "wealth". The six sons represent the prophetic destiny of the descendants of Keturah in the Arab peninsula.
Click to expand...


And which of them match 
any of the names of the Qahtan or Qays tribes?

Problem with Arab supremacists like you is that after raping the entire middle east,
you simply cannot fathom that Arabs are not the only nation in the region,
and revision everything to match your supremacist ideology.


----------



## Roudy

surada said:


> im
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> Roudy said:
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> Roudy said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A publication on education in greater Syria from 1882 showed that there were a total of 3,854 students in school in Jerusalem (2,768 boys and 1,086 girls) and 235 teachers.28 The number of girls in Christian schools (Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, Latin, Greek Catholic, and Armenian) were slightly more than the number of boys (926 girls to 861 boys). While the majority of these students were Christians,
> four of the Evangelical schools (two for boys and two for girls) totaling 138 students exclusively taught Jews. In addition, there were 1,707 students in Jewish schools, 160 of which were girls. In the eight Muslim schools, all of which were for boys, there were 360 students. In 1891, the Government opened a general [secondary] school (Rushdiya) [sic] in our city, where all the children of the city, regardless of their religion, could attend classes in Arabic, Turkish, French, and the basic sciences.29 It was also recorded that a Muslim school for girls had been established.30
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many, many Jews lived in Damascus since before the time of Christ. Not many stayed in Palestine if they could get out.
Click to expand...


Wrong again. The Jews maintained a presence throughout the ages, and it wasn't even called "Palestine" by the Ottomans who controlled the land for the last 600 years before WWI, who were Muslims themselves, they called it Southern Syria.


----------



## Roudy

MJB12741 said:


> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians are just land thieves with no titles or deeds whatsoever to the land they stole.
> 
> 
> 
> *MJB12741*, how many children have you murdered?
> 
> idf shooting children - Google Search
> 
> -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me dumb it down for you. When Israeli's are attacked, Israel will retaliate.  If you don't want dead Palestinians, don't kill any Israeli's.  Get it yet?
Click to expand...

Of course they don't want to mention that so called "Palestinian" terrorist animals are known to intentionally attack and kill Jewish kids and infants in all kinds of settings such as nurseries and schools.


----------



## Sixties Fan

> *Egyptian Foreign Affairs Council member and former Foreign Minister’s Aide Raja Ahmed Hassan:* “If they allow Israel to, it will attempt to change the situation on the ground, to change the cultural sites. It changes some of the existing archaeological findings and writes on them in Hebrew. It takes control of a large number of-“
> *Official PA TV host: *“A forgery of history.”
> *Raja Ahmed Hassan: *“A forgery which contradicts the UNESCO decisions. UNESCO has determined that neither Israel nor the Jews have any heritage in Jerusalem.”
> [Official PA TV, _The Cause in the Egyptian Halls_, Oct. 7, 2019]


PA Minister of Foreign Affairs Riyad Al-Malki similarly stated at UNESCO’s general conference in November that Israel is “falsifying history” and “taking control” of “the Palestinian people’s past, heritage, and history”:



> “Al-Malki said in a speech that he gave at the conference: ‘*Palestine is the cradle of civilization and the religions, and its capital is Jerusalem on whose walls is engraved some of the Palestinian people’s past, heritage, and history. Israel, the occupying power, is striving to destroy this heritage, take control of it, and falsify the history that is witness to our people having been rooted in its land for over 10,000 years, which negates the settler Israeli colonialist narrative*.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Dec. 1, 2019]


Recently, PMW reported that the PA’s Supreme Shari’ah Judge and Chairman of the Supreme Council for Shari'ah Justice, Mahmoud Al-Habbash, who is also a former advisor to PA Chairman Abbas, denied any presence of Jews in the Land of Israel, claiming Jews were brought in as “foreigners with no connection to the land.” Likewise, three Palestinian academics denied all archeological evidence of Jews in the area and said they “came as invaders 80 years ago.”  

(full article online)









						Israel forges history, Jews have no heritage in Jerusalem - according to Egyptian official and PA TV host | PMW Analysis
					

PA leaders continuously falsify history claiming that Jews have no history in Jerusalem or in the Land of Israel.




					palwatch.org


----------



## surada

Roudy said:


> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Roudy said:
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> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A publication on education in greater Syria from 1882 showed that there were a total of 3,854 students in school in Jerusalem (2,768 boys and 1,086 girls) and 235 teachers.28 The number of girls in Christian schools (Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, Latin, Greek Catholic, and Armenian) were slightly more than the number of boys (926 girls to 861 boys). While the majority of these students were Christians,
> four of the Evangelical schools (two for boys and two for girls) totaling 138 students exclusively taught Jews. In addition, there were 1,707 students in Jewish schools, 160 of which were girls. In the eight Muslim schools, all of which were for boys, there were 360 students. In 1891, the Government opened a general [secondary] school (Rushdiya) [sic] in our city, where all the children of the city, regardless of their religion, could attend classes in Arabic, Turkish, French, and the basic sciences.29 It was also recorded that a Muslim school for girls had been established.30
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many, many Jews lived in Damascus since before the time of Christ. Not many stayed in Palestine if they could get out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again. The Jews maintained a presence throughout the ages, and it wasn't even called "Palestine" by the Ottomans who controlled the land for the last 600 years before WWI, who were Muslims themselves, they called it Southern Syria.
Click to expand...


Yes. It was a province of Syria called Syria-Palestine. Have you read Ibn Battuta or Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela. Jews were a tiny minority. Look at the Quarters of the old city.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Roudy said:
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> Mindful said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A publication on education in greater Syria from 1882 showed that there were a total of 3,854 students in school in Jerusalem (2,768 boys and 1,086 girls) and 235 teachers.28 The number of girls in Christian schools (Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, Latin, Greek Catholic, and Armenian) were slightly more than the number of boys (926 girls to 861 boys). While the majority of these students were Christians,
> four of the Evangelical schools (two for boys and two for girls) totaling 138 students exclusively taught Jews. In addition, there were 1,707 students in Jewish schools, 160 of which were girls. In the eight Muslim schools, all of which were for boys, there were 360 students. In 1891, the Government opened a general [secondary] school (Rushdiya) [sic] in our city, where all the children of the city, regardless of their religion, could attend classes in Arabic, Turkish, French, and the basic sciences.29 It was also recorded that a Muslim school for girls had been established.30
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many, many Jews lived in Damascus since before the time of Christ. Not many stayed in Palestine if they could get out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again. The Jews maintained a presence throughout the ages, and it wasn't even called "Palestine" by the Ottomans who controlled the land for the last 600 years before WWI, who were Muslims themselves, they called it Southern Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. It was a province of Syria called Syria-Palestine. Have you read Ibn Battuta or Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela. Jews were a tiny minority. Look at the Quarters of the old city.
Click to expand...

The issue has never been about how many Jews were on their ancient homeland.  

The issue has been since 1948 as to whether an invading people like the Europeans in the Americans, Australia,  can ever claim and appropriate themselves of indigenous archeology, culture and history in order to deny the indigenous people their rightful sovereignty over that land.

That is what the Arabs have been doing to the Jewish people.

Diminishing the issue to Numbers of population, does nothing but deny the Jewish people their legal right to fight for sovereignty of their own land, and especially as they ended up with ONLY 20% of it, and the invaders continue to demand that 20% for them, in the future leaving the Jews with no land to be sovereign over.

Whatever your childhood upbringing was, it has been augmented by the Romancing of Arabia, and all that Muslims have achieved at the cost of all indigenous people of the lands they moved into.

Arabs did not conquer the Middle East, the Kurds did.
Arabs did not conquer the South of Spain, the Moors did.

Kurds, Copts, Berbers, Assyrians and others have no right to be sovereign over their ancient lands, anymore than too many tribes in the American and Australian continents.

Numbers of populations throughout any invasion are meaningless as it does not take away any indigenous people their sovereign right to those lands.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


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> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A publication on education in greater Syria from 1882 showed that there were a total of 3,854 students in school in Jerusalem (2,768 boys and 1,086 girls) and 235 teachers.28 The number of girls in Christian schools (Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, Latin, Greek Catholic, and Armenian) were slightly more than the number of boys (926 girls to 861 boys). While the majority of these students were Christians,
> four of the Evangelical schools (two for boys and two for girls) totaling 138 students exclusively taught Jews. In addition, there were 1,707 students in Jewish schools, 160 of which were girls. In the eight Muslim schools, all of which were for boys, there were 360 students. In 1891, the Government opened a general [secondary] school (Rushdiya) [sic] in our city, where all the children of the city, regardless of their religion, could attend classes in Arabic, Turkish, French, and the basic sciences.29 It was also recorded that a Muslim school for girls had been established.30
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many, many Jews lived in Damascus since before the time of Christ. Not many stayed in Palestine if they could get out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again. The Jews maintained a presence throughout the ages, and it wasn't even called "Palestine" by the Ottomans who controlled the land for the last 600 years before WWI, who were Muslims themselves, they called it Southern Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. It was a province of Syria called Syria-Palestine. Have you read Ibn Battuta or Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela. Jews were a tiny minority. Look at the Quarters of the old city.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The issue has never been about how many Jews were on their ancient homeland.
> 
> The issue has been since 1948 as to whether an invading people like the Europeans in the Americans, Australia,  can ever claim and appropriate themselves of indigenous archeology, culture and history in order to deny the indigenous people their rightful sovereignty over that land.
> 
> That is what the Arabs have been doing to the Jewish people.
> 
> Diminishing the issue to Numbers of population, does nothing but deny the Jewish people their legal right to fight for sovereignty of their own land, and especially as they ended up with ONLY 20% of it, and the invaders continue to demand that 20% for them, in the future leaving the Jews with no land to be sovereign over.
> 
> Whatever your childhood upbringing was, it has been augmented by the Romancing of Arabia, and all that Muslims have achieved at the cost of all indigenous people of the lands they moved into.
> 
> Arabs did not conquer the Middle East, the Kurds did.
> Arabs did not conquer the South of Spain, the Moors did.
> 
> Kurds, Copts, Berbers, Assyrians and others have no right to be sovereign over their ancient lands, anymore than too many tribes in the American and Australian continents.
> 
> Numbers of populations throughout any invasion are meaningless as it does not take away any indigenous people their sovereign right to those lands.
Click to expand...


Its against international law to colonized land taken in war. Palestine was NEVER just inhabited by Jews. They are Canaanites just like all the other Canaanites.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


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> Roudy said:
> 
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> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A publication on education in greater Syria from 1882 showed that there were a total of 3,854 students in school in Jerusalem (2,768 boys and 1,086 girls) and 235 teachers.28 The number of girls in Christian schools (Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, Latin, Greek Catholic, and Armenian) were slightly more than the number of boys (926 girls to 861 boys). While the majority of these students were Christians,
> four of the Evangelical schools (two for boys and two for girls) totaling 138 students exclusively taught Jews. In addition, there were 1,707 students in Jewish schools, 160 of which were girls. In the eight Muslim schools, all of which were for boys, there were 360 students. In 1891, the Government opened a general [secondary] school (Rushdiya) [sic] in our city, where all the children of the city, regardless of their religion, could attend classes in Arabic, Turkish, French, and the basic sciences.29 It was also recorded that a Muslim school for girls had been established.30
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many, many Jews lived in Damascus since before the time of Christ. Not many stayed in Palestine if they could get out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again. The Jews maintained a presence throughout the ages, and it wasn't even called "Palestine" by the Ottomans who controlled the land for the last 600 years before WWI, who were Muslims themselves, they called it Southern Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. It was a province of Syria called Syria-Palestine. Have you read Ibn Battuta or Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela. Jews were a tiny minority. Look at the Quarters of the old city.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The issue has never been about how many Jews were on their ancient homeland.
> 
> The issue has been since 1948 as to whether an invading people like the Europeans in the Americans, Australia,  can ever claim and appropriate themselves of indigenous archeology, culture and history in order to deny the indigenous people their rightful sovereignty over that land.
> 
> That is what the Arabs have been doing to the Jewish people.
> 
> Diminishing the issue to Numbers of population, does nothing but deny the Jewish people their legal right to fight for sovereignty of their own land, and especially as they ended up with ONLY 20% of it, and the invaders continue to demand that 20% for them, in the future leaving the Jews with no land to be sovereign over.
> 
> Whatever your childhood upbringing was, it has been augmented by the Romancing of Arabia, and all that Muslims have achieved at the cost of all indigenous people of the lands they moved into.
> 
> Arabs did not conquer the Middle East, the Kurds did.
> Arabs did not conquer the South of Spain, the Moors did.
> 
> Kurds, Copts, Berbers, Assyrians and others have no right to be sovereign over their ancient lands, anymore than too many tribes in the American and Australian continents.
> 
> Numbers of populations throughout any invasion are meaningless as it does not take away any indigenous people their sovereign right to those lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its against international law to colonized land taken in war. Palestine was NEVER just inhabited by Jews. They are Canaanites just like all the other Canaanites.
Click to expand...

You are changing history.

Modern Arabs are not Canaanites.
Palestinians are not Canaanites.

"Its against international law to colonized land taken in war."

Tell that to the Muslims and Arabs and Turks, who have been warring against the indigenous people of the Middle East and North Africa, and colonizing each and every part of it, at the cost of indigenous rights.

When Arab states invade a legally formed state only because it is Jewish, the Jewish people have every right to defend themselves.

Unfortunately the Muslim and Christian population which follows the Muslim leaders with their lies, are the ones who continue to pay the price in not having a State of their own, something they could have had in 1936, 1947 and 2000.

Actions have consequences.

Teaching hateful things about an indigenous people because they are Jewish has consequences.

Again and again, attacking not only the Jewish country but the people who live in it, including Israeli Arabs, Druze, etc....has its consequences.

Hatred for the other since the 1st century, has its consequences.

Hatred for the other.....since the 7th century, has its consequences.

Christians and Muslims have hated and murdered too many Jews and done anything they thought they had the right to do with the Jews and their land.

The legal re creation of Israel, in order to defend and protect the Jewish people, is the consequence of all of these centuries of learned hatred.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


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> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Roudy said:
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> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A publication on education in greater Syria from 1882 showed that there were a total of 3,854 students in school in Jerusalem (2,768 boys and 1,086 girls) and 235 teachers.28 The number of girls in Christian schools (Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, Latin, Greek Catholic, and Armenian) were slightly more than the number of boys (926 girls to 861 boys). While the majority of these students were Christians,
> four of the Evangelical schools (two for boys and two for girls) totaling 138 students exclusively taught Jews. In addition, there were 1,707 students in Jewish schools, 160 of which were girls. In the eight Muslim schools, all of which were for boys, there were 360 students. In 1891, the Government opened a general [secondary] school (Rushdiya) [sic] in our city, where all the children of the city, regardless of their religion, could attend classes in Arabic, Turkish, French, and the basic sciences.29 It was also recorded that a Muslim school for girls had been established.30
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many, many Jews lived in Damascus since before the time of Christ. Not many stayed in Palestine if they could get out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again. The Jews maintained a presence throughout the ages, and it wasn't even called "Palestine" by the Ottomans who controlled the land for the last 600 years before WWI, who were Muslims themselves, they called it Southern Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. It was a province of Syria called Syria-Palestine. Have you read Ibn Battuta or Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela. Jews were a tiny minority. Look at the Quarters of the old city.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The issue has never been about how many Jews were on their ancient homeland.
> 
> The issue has been since 1948 as to whether an invading people like the Europeans in the Americans, Australia,  can ever claim and appropriate themselves of indigenous archeology, culture and history in order to deny the indigenous people their rightful sovereignty over that land.
> 
> That is what the Arabs have been doing to the Jewish people.
> 
> Diminishing the issue to Numbers of population, does nothing but deny the Jewish people their legal right to fight for sovereignty of their own land, and especially as they ended up with ONLY 20% of it, and the invaders continue to demand that 20% for them, in the future leaving the Jews with no land to be sovereign over.
> 
> Whatever your childhood upbringing was, it has been augmented by the Romancing of Arabia, and all that Muslims have achieved at the cost of all indigenous people of the lands they moved into.
> 
> Arabs did not conquer the Middle East, the Kurds did.
> Arabs did not conquer the South of Spain, the Moors did.
> 
> Kurds, Copts, Berbers, Assyrians and others have no right to be sovereign over their ancient lands, anymore than too many tribes in the American and Australian continents.
> 
> Numbers of populations throughout any invasion are meaningless as it does not take away any indigenous people their sovereign right to those lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its against international law to colonized land taken in war. Palestine was NEVER just inhabited by Jews. They are Canaanites just like all the other Canaanites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are changing history.
> 
> Modern Arabs are not Canaanites.
> Palestinians are not Canaanites.
> 
> "Its against international law to colonized land taken in war."
> 
> Tell that to the Muslims and Arabs and Turks, who have been warring against the indigenous people of the Middle East and North Africa, and colonizing each and every part of it, at the cost of indigenous rights.
> 
> When Arab states invade a legally formed state only because it is Jewish, the Jewish people have every right to defend themselves.
> 
> Unfortunately the Muslim and Christian population which follows the Muslim leaders with their lies, are the ones who continue to pay the price in not having a State of their own, something they could have had in 1936, 1947 and 2000.
> 
> Actions have consequences.
> 
> Teaching hateful things about an indigenous people because they are Jewish has consequences.
> 
> Again and again, attacking not only the Jewish country but the people who live in it, including Israeli Arabs, Druze, etc....has its consequences.
> 
> Hatred for the other since the 1st century, has its consequences.
> 
> Hatred for the other.....since the 7th century, has its consequences.
> 
> Christians and Muslims have hated and murdered too many Jews and done anything they thought they had the right to do with the Jews and their land.
> 
> The legal re creation of Israel, in order to defend and protect the Jewish people, is the consequence of all of these centuries of learned hatred.
Click to expand...


How would you like for your population to double in 15 years with foreigners?

The Zionist Colonization of Palestine - Truthdig








						The Zionist Colonization of Palestine
					

For more than a century Zionists and, later, Israelis have pursued a project to seize and ethnically cleanse Palestinian land.




					www.truthdig.com
				



The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not the product of ancient ethnic hatreds. It is the tragic clash between two peoples with claims to the same land. It is a manufactured conflict, the outcome of...


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
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> Roudy said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Roudy said:
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> Mindful said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A publication on education in greater Syria from 1882 showed that there were a total of 3,854 students in school in Jerusalem (2,768 boys and 1,086 girls) and 235 teachers.28 The number of girls in Christian schools (Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, Latin, Greek Catholic, and Armenian) were slightly more than the number of boys (926 girls to 861 boys). While the majority of these students were Christians,
> four of the Evangelical schools (two for boys and two for girls) totaling 138 students exclusively taught Jews. In addition, there were 1,707 students in Jewish schools, 160 of which were girls. In the eight Muslim schools, all of which were for boys, there were 360 students. In 1891, the Government opened a general [secondary] school (Rushdiya) [sic] in our city, where all the children of the city, regardless of their religion, could attend classes in Arabic, Turkish, French, and the basic sciences.29 It was also recorded that a Muslim school for girls had been established.30
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many, many Jews lived in Damascus since before the time of Christ. Not many stayed in Palestine if they could get out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again. The Jews maintained a presence throughout the ages, and it wasn't even called "Palestine" by the Ottomans who controlled the land for the last 600 years before WWI, who were Muslims themselves, they called it Southern Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. It was a province of Syria called Syria-Palestine. Have you read Ibn Battuta or Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela. Jews were a tiny minority. Look at the Quarters of the old city.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The issue has never been about how many Jews were on their ancient homeland.
> 
> The issue has been since 1948 as to whether an invading people like the Europeans in the Americans, Australia,  can ever claim and appropriate themselves of indigenous archeology, culture and history in order to deny the indigenous people their rightful sovereignty over that land.
> 
> That is what the Arabs have been doing to the Jewish people.
> 
> Diminishing the issue to Numbers of population, does nothing but deny the Jewish people their legal right to fight for sovereignty of their own land, and especially as they ended up with ONLY 20% of it, and the invaders continue to demand that 20% for them, in the future leaving the Jews with no land to be sovereign over.
> 
> Whatever your childhood upbringing was, it has been augmented by the Romancing of Arabia, and all that Muslims have achieved at the cost of all indigenous people of the lands they moved into.
> 
> Arabs did not conquer the Middle East, the Kurds did.
> Arabs did not conquer the South of Spain, the Moors did.
> 
> Kurds, Copts, Berbers, Assyrians and others have no right to be sovereign over their ancient lands, anymore than too many tribes in the American and Australian continents.
> 
> Numbers of populations throughout any invasion are meaningless as it does not take away any indigenous people their sovereign right to those lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its against international law to colonized land taken in war. Palestine was NEVER just inhabited by Jews. They are Canaanites just like all the other Canaanites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are changing history.
> 
> Modern Arabs are not Canaanites.
> Palestinians are not Canaanites.
> 
> "Its against international law to colonized land taken in war."
> 
> Tell that to the Muslims and Arabs and Turks, who have been warring against the indigenous people of the Middle East and North Africa, and colonizing each and every part of it, at the cost of indigenous rights.
> 
> When Arab states invade a legally formed state only because it is Jewish, the Jewish people have every right to defend themselves.
> 
> Unfortunately the Muslim and Christian population which follows the Muslim leaders with their lies, are the ones who continue to pay the price in not having a State of their own, something they could have had in 1936, 1947 and 2000.
> 
> Actions have consequences.
> 
> Teaching hateful things about an indigenous people because they are Jewish has consequences.
> 
> Again and again, attacking not only the Jewish country but the people who live in it, including Israeli Arabs, Druze, etc....has its consequences.
> 
> Hatred for the other since the 1st century, has its consequences.
> 
> Hatred for the other.....since the 7th century, has its consequences.
> 
> Christians and Muslims have hated and murdered too many Jews and done anything they thought they had the right to do with the Jews and their land.
> 
> The legal re creation of Israel, in order to defend and protect the Jewish people, is the consequence of all of these centuries of learned hatred.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How would you like for your population to double in 15 years with foreigners?
> 
> The Zionist Colonization of Palestine - Truthdig
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionist Colonization of Palestine
> 
> 
> For more than a century Zionists and, later, Israelis have pursued a project to seize and ethnically cleanse Palestinian land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.truthdig.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not the product of ancient ethnic hatreds. It is the tragic clash between two peoples with claims to the same land. It is a manufactured conflict, the outcome of...
Click to expand...

Revised history designed to destroy Israel, and Jewish sovereignty of what is left of their ancient homeland.

78% of the Jewish homeland was GIVEN to the foreign Hashemites in 1922.

All you read is anti Israel articles.
Anti Jewish articles.

"Zionists are indigenous Europeans come to take the land from indigenous Arabs, as if....Arabs were indigenous of Ancient Canaan."

"The Jewish population were few
The Jews ethnically cleansed the Arabs from "their" lands"


Your lack of sense of history comes from romancing Arabs and Islam for most of your life.

Most, if not all your sources are people who fell in love with Islam and Arabs and their culture.

Can you introspect for any short time to find out if what I am saying could be true, and therefore your beliefs might be painted by them?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


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> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
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> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A publication on education in greater Syria from 1882 showed that there were a total of 3,854 students in school in Jerusalem (2,768 boys and 1,086 girls) and 235 teachers.28 The number of girls in Christian schools (Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, Latin, Greek Catholic, and Armenian) were slightly more than the number of boys (926 girls to 861 boys). While the majority of these students were Christians,
> four of the Evangelical schools (two for boys and two for girls) totaling 138 students exclusively taught Jews. In addition, there were 1,707 students in Jewish schools, 160 of which were girls. In the eight Muslim schools, all of which were for boys, there were 360 students. In 1891, the Government opened a general [secondary] school (Rushdiya) [sic] in our city, where all the children of the city, regardless of their religion, could attend classes in Arabic, Turkish, French, and the basic sciences.29 It was also recorded that a Muslim school for girls had been established.30
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many, many Jews lived in Damascus since before the time of Christ. Not many stayed in Palestine if they could get out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again. The Jews maintained a presence throughout the ages, and it wasn't even called "Palestine" by the Ottomans who controlled the land for the last 600 years before WWI, who were Muslims themselves, they called it Southern Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. It was a province of Syria called Syria-Palestine. Have you read Ibn Battuta or Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela. Jews were a tiny minority. Look at the Quarters of the old city.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The issue has never been about how many Jews were on their ancient homeland.
> 
> The issue has been since 1948 as to whether an invading people like the Europeans in the Americans, Australia,  can ever claim and appropriate themselves of indigenous archeology, culture and history in order to deny the indigenous people their rightful sovereignty over that land.
> 
> That is what the Arabs have been doing to the Jewish people.
> 
> Diminishing the issue to Numbers of population, does nothing but deny the Jewish people their legal right to fight for sovereignty of their own land, and especially as they ended up with ONLY 20% of it, and the invaders continue to demand that 20% for them, in the future leaving the Jews with no land to be sovereign over.
> 
> Whatever your childhood upbringing was, it has been augmented by the Romancing of Arabia, and all that Muslims have achieved at the cost of all indigenous people of the lands they moved into.
> 
> Arabs did not conquer the Middle East, the Kurds did.
> Arabs did not conquer the South of Spain, the Moors did.
> 
> Kurds, Copts, Berbers, Assyrians and others have no right to be sovereign over their ancient lands, anymore than too many tribes in the American and Australian continents.
> 
> Numbers of populations throughout any invasion are meaningless as it does not take away any indigenous people their sovereign right to those lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its against international law to colonized land taken in war. Palestine was NEVER just inhabited by Jews. They are Canaanites just like all the other Canaanites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are changing history.
> 
> Modern Arabs are not Canaanites.
> Palestinians are not Canaanites.
> 
> "Its against international law to colonized land taken in war."
> 
> Tell that to the Muslims and Arabs and Turks, who have been warring against the indigenous people of the Middle East and North Africa, and colonizing each and every part of it, at the cost of indigenous rights.
> 
> When Arab states invade a legally formed state only because it is Jewish, the Jewish people have every right to defend themselves.
> 
> Unfortunately the Muslim and Christian population which follows the Muslim leaders with their lies, are the ones who continue to pay the price in not having a State of their own, something they could have had in 1936, 1947 and 2000.
> 
> Actions have consequences.
> 
> Teaching hateful things about an indigenous people because they are Jewish has consequences.
> 
> Again and again, attacking not only the Jewish country but the people who live in it, including Israeli Arabs, Druze, etc....has its consequences.
> 
> Hatred for the other since the 1st century, has its consequences.
> 
> Hatred for the other.....since the 7th century, has its consequences.
> 
> Christians and Muslims have hated and murdered too many Jews and done anything they thought they had the right to do with the Jews and their land.
> 
> The legal re creation of Israel, in order to defend and protect the Jewish people, is the consequence of all of these centuries of learned hatred.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How would you like for your population to double in 15 years with foreigners?
> 
> The Zionist Colonization of Palestine - Truthdig
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionist Colonization of Palestine
> 
> 
> For more than a century Zionists and, later, Israelis have pursued a project to seize and ethnically cleanse Palestinian land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.truthdig.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not the product of ancient ethnic hatreds. It is the tragic clash between two peoples with claims to the same land. It is a manufactured conflict, the outcome of...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Revised history designed to destroy Israel, and Jewish sovereignty of what is left of their ancient homeland.
> 
> 78% of the Jewish homeland was GIVEN to the foreign Hashemites in 1922.
> 
> All you read is anti Israel articles.
> Anti Jewish articles.
> 
> "Zionists are indigenous Europeans come to take the land from indigenous Arabs, as if....Arabs were indigenous of Ancient Canaan."
> 
> "The Jewish population were few
> The Jews ethnically cleansed the Arabs from "their" lands"
> 
> 
> Your lack of sense of history comes from romancing Arabs and Islam for most of your life.
> 
> Most, if not all your sources are people who fell in love with Islam and Arabs and their culture.
> 
> Can you introspect for any short time to find out if what I am saying could be true, and therefore your beliefs might be painted by them?
Click to expand...


Have you read Zionist Aspirations  in Palestine, Atlantic Magazine July 1920?

Jews have been rewriting history for thousands of years. What about all those other people who lived in Palestine.. All those Canaanite tribes and Arabs etc? They didn't suddenly disappear?


----------



## The Sage of Main Street

Roudy said:


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> Mindful said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A publication on education in greater Syria from 1882 showed that there were a total of 3,854 students in school in Jerusalem (2,768 boys and 1,086 girls) and 235 teachers.28 The number of girls in Christian schools (Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, Latin, Greek Catholic, and Armenian) were slightly more than the number of boys (926 girls to 861 boys). While the majority of these students were Christians,
> four of the Evangelical schools (two for boys and two for girls) totaling 138 students exclusively taught Jews. In addition, there were 1,707 students in Jewish schools, 160 of which were girls. In the eight Muslim schools, all of which were for boys, there were 360 students. In 1891, the Government opened a general [secondary] school (Rushdiya) [sic] in our city, where all the children of the city, regardless of their religion, could attend classes in Arabic, Turkish, French, and the basic sciences.29 It was also recorded that a Muslim school for girls had been established.30
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many, many Jews lived in Damascus since before the time of Christ. Not many stayed in Palestine if they could get out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again. The Jews maintained a presence throughout the ages, and it wasn't even called "Palestine" by the Ottomans who controlled the land for the last 600 years before WWI, who were Muslims themselves, they called it Southern Syria.
Click to expand...

*Israel Is Our Shield*

The Ottomans used the Jews as a decoy to Arab resentment against the Turks.  

After World War One and the final destruction of the jihad led by the Turks, the Allies anticipated a new jihad arising (They were right:  the Moslem Brotherhood would be established in 1928).  So they, too, established a Jewish Homeland as a decoy to the present jihad.  It worked until Al Qaida decided to bypass unbeatable Israel and attack the confused, decadent, and appeasing West first.

The only Whites aren't speaking Arabic is that some people wanted to speak Hebrew in a Hebrew nation.


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## Sixties Fan

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> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
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> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
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> 
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> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
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> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
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> www.thejakartapost.com
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> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
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> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
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> www.pri.org
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> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
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> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
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> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
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> A publication on education in greater Syria from 1882 showed that there were a total of 3,854 students in school in Jerusalem (2,768 boys and 1,086 girls) and 235 teachers.28 The number of girls in Christian schools (Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, Latin, Greek Catholic, and Armenian) were slightly more than the number of boys (926 girls to 861 boys). While the majority of these students were Christians,
> four of the Evangelical schools (two for boys and two for girls) totaling 138 students exclusively taught Jews. In addition, there were 1,707 students in Jewish schools, 160 of which were girls. In the eight Muslim schools, all of which were for boys, there were 360 students. In 1891, the Government opened a general [secondary] school (Rushdiya) [sic] in our city, where all the children of the city, regardless of their religion, could attend classes in Arabic, Turkish, French, and the basic sciences.29 It was also recorded that a Muslim school for girls had been established.30
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many, many Jews lived in Damascus since before the time of Christ. Not many stayed in Palestine if they could get out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again. The Jews maintained a presence throughout the ages, and it wasn't even called "Palestine" by the Ottomans who controlled the land for the last 600 years before WWI, who were Muslims themselves, they called it Southern Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. It was a province of Syria called Syria-Palestine. Have you read Ibn Battuta or Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela. Jews were a tiny minority. Look at the Quarters of the old city.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The issue has never been about how many Jews were on their ancient homeland.
> 
> The issue has been since 1948 as to whether an invading people like the Europeans in the Americans, Australia,  can ever claim and appropriate themselves of indigenous archeology, culture and history in order to deny the indigenous people their rightful sovereignty over that land.
> 
> That is what the Arabs have been doing to the Jewish people.
> 
> Diminishing the issue to Numbers of population, does nothing but deny the Jewish people their legal right to fight for sovereignty of their own land, and especially as they ended up with ONLY 20% of it, and the invaders continue to demand that 20% for them, in the future leaving the Jews with no land to be sovereign over.
> 
> Whatever your childhood upbringing was, it has been augmented by the Romancing of Arabia, and all that Muslims have achieved at the cost of all indigenous people of the lands they moved into.
> 
> Arabs did not conquer the Middle East, the Kurds did.
> Arabs did not conquer the South of Spain, the Moors did.
> 
> Kurds, Copts, Berbers, Assyrians and others have no right to be sovereign over their ancient lands, anymore than too many tribes in the American and Australian continents.
> 
> Numbers of populations throughout any invasion are meaningless as it does not take away any indigenous people their sovereign right to those lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> Its against international law to colonized land taken in war. Palestine was NEVER just inhabited by Jews. They are Canaanites just like all the other Canaanites.
> 
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> Click to expand...
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> You are changing history.
> 
> Modern Arabs are not Canaanites.
> Palestinians are not Canaanites.
> 
> "Its against international law to colonized land taken in war."
> 
> Tell that to the Muslims and Arabs and Turks, who have been warring against the indigenous people of the Middle East and North Africa, and colonizing each and every part of it, at the cost of indigenous rights.
> 
> When Arab states invade a legally formed state only because it is Jewish, the Jewish people have every right to defend themselves.
> 
> Unfortunately the Muslim and Christian population which follows the Muslim leaders with their lies, are the ones who continue to pay the price in not having a State of their own, something they could have had in 1936, 1947 and 2000.
> 
> Actions have consequences.
> 
> Teaching hateful things about an indigenous people because they are Jewish has consequences.
> 
> Again and again, attacking not only the Jewish country but the people who live in it, including Israeli Arabs, Druze, etc....has its consequences.
> 
> Hatred for the other since the 1st century, has its consequences.
> 
> Hatred for the other.....since the 7th century, has its consequences.
> 
> Christians and Muslims have hated and murdered too many Jews and done anything they thought they had the right to do with the Jews and their land.
> 
> The legal re creation of Israel, in order to defend and protect the Jewish people, is the consequence of all of these centuries of learned hatred.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> How would you like for your population to double in 15 years with foreigners?
> 
> The Zionist Colonization of Palestine - Truthdig
> 
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> The Zionist Colonization of Palestine
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> For more than a century Zionists and, later, Israelis have pursued a project to seize and ethnically cleanse Palestinian land.
> 
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> 
> www.truthdig.com
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> 
> The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not the product of ancient ethnic hatreds. It is the tragic clash between two peoples with claims to the same land. It is a manufactured conflict, the outcome of...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Revised history designed to destroy Israel, and Jewish sovereignty of what is left of their ancient homeland.
> 
> 78% of the Jewish homeland was GIVEN to the foreign Hashemites in 1922.
> 
> All you read is anti Israel articles.
> Anti Jewish articles.
> 
> "Zionists are indigenous Europeans come to take the land from indigenous Arabs, as if....Arabs were indigenous of Ancient Canaan."
> 
> "The Jewish population were few
> The Jews ethnically cleansed the Arabs from "their" lands"
> 
> 
> Your lack of sense of history comes from romancing Arabs and Islam for most of your life.
> 
> Most, if not all your sources are people who fell in love with Islam and Arabs and their culture.
> 
> Can you introspect for any short time to find out if what I am saying could be true, and therefore your beliefs might be painted by them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you read Zionist Aspirations  in Palestine, Atlantic Magazine July 1920?
> 
> Jews have been rewriting history for thousands of years. What about all those other people who lived in Palestine.. All those Canaanite tribes and Arabs etc? They didn't suddenly disappear?
Click to expand...

Apparently you have not, and chose to read only the parts which matter to delegitimizing any Jewish rights to the Mandate for Palestine.

Zionism is not any different from the Kurdish movement, The Copts, Berbers, and every other indigenous people who have had their lands invaded by Muslims and saw thousands of Arabs migrants moving into it, util they became the minority.

Here is part of it:

"The idea of Judaism is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish people, and the idea of the Jewish people is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish land"

By H. Sacher

*THE Zionist movement dates from A.D. 70*, the year of the destruction of the Temple and the Jewish State. The Zionist Organization dates from 1897, the year of the first Zionist Congress. The *Zionist movement is a longing and striving to restore to the Jewish people normal national life. *The Zionist Organization is a particular instrumentality for achieving that end. The Zionist movement will continue until the Jewish people are once more living a normal national life, when it will be transformed into the active expression of that normal national life. The Zionist Organization, when the particular phase of Jewish national life which called into being this special instrumentality has passed, will merge into some other instrumentality.


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## Sixties Fan

2

There are some who deny that there is such a thing as the Jewish people, but the denial is a modern innovation. Very rare is the non-Jew who thinks of Jews as merely a sect without national quality; and it is doubtful whether among the Jews themselves there could be found a single instance of such a denial much earlier than the second decade of the nineteenth century. The negation of Jewish nationality was first presented by German Jews as part of what is called the 'reform ' movement in German Jewry, which itself was hardly separable from the movement for Jewish political emancipation in that country. From Germany it spread to other lands, but it has never had much respect among any save a small minority of Jews, and it has never had any respect at all from non-Jews, except when political expediency made it convenient for a Gentile statesman or diplomat to invoke this strange dogma.


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## Sixties Fan

( I will jump a lot here)

Many public men in Great Britain were deeply interested in these efforts to restore the Jewish people to the Jewish land. Lord Shaftesbury was the foremost of them. 'The inherent vitality,' he wrote, 'of the Hebrew race reasserts itself with amazing persistence. Its genius, to tell the truth, adapts itself more or less to all the currents of civilization all over the world, nevertheless always emerging with distinctive features and a gallant recovery of vigor. There is unbroken identity of Jewish race and Jewish mind down to our times; but the great revival can take place only in the Holy Land.' He believed that the hour had struck for the Jewish restoration, and he labored to persuade English statesmen to take up the holy task. Another distinguished Englishman of those days who was penetrated with the same conviction was Colonel Churchill, the British Resident at Damascus, who urged upon the Jews the return to Palestine as the solution of the Eastern question.





__





						A Jewish Palestine
					

"The idea of Judaism is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish people, and the idea of the Jewish people is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish land"




					www.theatlantic.com


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## MJB12741

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> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
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> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A publication on education in greater Syria from 1882 showed that there were a total of 3,854 students in school in Jerusalem (2,768 boys and 1,086 girls) and 235 teachers.28 The number of girls in Christian schools (Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, Latin, Greek Catholic, and Armenian) were slightly more than the number of boys (926 girls to 861 boys). While the majority of these students were Christians,
> four of the Evangelical schools (two for boys and two for girls) totaling 138 students exclusively taught Jews. In addition, there were 1,707 students in Jewish schools, 160 of which were girls. In the eight Muslim schools, all of which were for boys, there were 360 students. In 1891, the Government opened a general [secondary] school (Rushdiya) [sic] in our city, where all the children of the city, regardless of their religion, could attend classes in Arabic, Turkish, French, and the basic sciences.29 It was also recorded that a Muslim school for girls had been established.30
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many, many Jews lived in Damascus since before the time of Christ. Not many stayed in Palestine if they could get out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again. The Jews maintained a presence throughout the ages, and it wasn't even called "Palestine" by the Ottomans who controlled the land for the last 600 years before WWI, who were Muslims themselves, they called it Southern Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. It was a province of Syria called Syria-Palestine. Have you read Ibn Battuta or Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela. Jews were a tiny minority. Look at the Quarters of the old city.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The issue has never been about how many Jews were on their ancient homeland.
> 
> The issue has been since 1948 as to whether an invading people like the Europeans in the Americans, Australia,  can ever claim and appropriate themselves of indigenous archeology, culture and history in order to deny the indigenous people their rightful sovereignty over that land.
> 
> That is what the Arabs have been doing to the Jewish people.
> 
> Diminishing the issue to Numbers of population, does nothing but deny the Jewish people their legal right to fight for sovereignty of their own land, and especially as they ended up with ONLY 20% of it, and the invaders continue to demand that 20% for them, in the future leaving the Jews with no land to be sovereign over.
> 
> Whatever your childhood upbringing was, it has been augmented by the Romancing of Arabia, and all that Muslims have achieved at the cost of all indigenous people of the lands they moved into.
> 
> Arabs did not conquer the Middle East, the Kurds did.
> Arabs did not conquer the South of Spain, the Moors did.
> 
> Kurds, Copts, Berbers, Assyrians and others have no right to be sovereign over their ancient lands, anymore than too many tribes in the American and Australian continents.
> 
> Numbers of populations throughout any invasion are meaningless as it does not take away any indigenous people their sovereign right to those lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its against international law to colonized land taken in war. Palestine was NEVER just inhabited by Jews. They are Canaanites just like all the other Canaanites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are changing history.
> 
> Modern Arabs are not Canaanites.
> Palestinians are not Canaanites.
> 
> "Its against international law to colonized land taken in war."
> 
> Tell that to the Muslims and Arabs and Turks, who have been warring against the indigenous people of the Middle East and North Africa, and colonizing each and every part of it, at the cost of indigenous rights.
> 
> When Arab states invade a legally formed state only because it is Jewish, the Jewish people have every right to defend themselves.
> 
> Unfortunately the Muslim and Christian population which follows the Muslim leaders with their lies, are the ones who continue to pay the price in not having a State of their own, something they could have had in 1936, 1947 and 2000.
> 
> Actions have consequences.
> 
> Teaching hateful things about an indigenous people because they are Jewish has consequences.
> 
> Again and again, attacking not only the Jewish country but the people who live in it, including Israeli Arabs, Druze, etc....has its consequences.
> 
> Hatred for the other since the 1st century, has its consequences.
> 
> Hatred for the other.....since the 7th century, has its consequences.
> 
> Christians and Muslims have hated and murdered too many Jews and done anything they thought they had the right to do with the Jews and their land.
> 
> The legal re creation of Israel, in order to defend and protect the Jewish people, is the consequence of all of these centuries of learned hatred.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How would you like for your population to double in 15 years with foreigners?
> 
> The Zionist Colonization of Palestine - Truthdig
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionist Colonization of Palestine
> 
> 
> For more than a century Zionists and, later, Israelis have pursued a project to seize and ethnically cleanse Palestinian land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.truthdig.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not the product of ancient ethnic hatreds. It is the tragic clash between two peoples with claims to the same land. It is a manufactured conflict, the outcome of...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Revised history designed to destroy Israel, and Jewish sovereignty of what is left of their ancient homeland.
> 
> 78% of the Jewish homeland was GIVEN to the foreign Hashemites in 1922.
> 
> All you read is anti Israel articles.
> Anti Jewish articles.
> 
> "Zionists are indigenous Europeans come to take the land from indigenous Arabs, as if....Arabs were indigenous of Ancient Canaan."
> 
> "The Jewish population were few
> The Jews ethnically cleansed the Arabs from "their" lands"
> 
> 
> Your lack of sense of history comes from romancing Arabs and Islam for most of your life.
> 
> Most, if not all your sources are people who fell in love with Islam and Arabs and their culture.
> 
> Can you introspect for any short time to find out if what I am saying could be true, and therefore your beliefs might be painted by them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you read Zionist Aspirations  in Palestine, Atlantic Magazine July 1920?
> 
> Jews have been rewriting history for thousands of years. What about all those other people who lived in Palestine.. All those Canaanite tribes and Arabs etc? They didn't suddenly disappear?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Apparently you have not, and chose to read only the parts which matter to delegitimizing any Jewish rights to the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Zionism is not any different from the Kurdish movement, The Copts, Berbers, and every other indigenous people who have had their lands invaded by Muslims and saw thousands of Arabs migrants moving into it, util they became the minority.
> 
> Here is part of it:
> 
> "The idea of Judaism is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish people, and the idea of the Jewish people is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish land"
> 
> By H. Sacher
> 
> *THE Zionist movement dates from A.D. 70*, the year of the destruction of the Temple and the Jewish State. The Zionist Organization dates from 1897, the year of the first Zionist Congress. The *Zionist movement is a longing and striving to restore to the Jewish people normal national life. *The Zionist Organization is a particular instrumentality for achieving that end. The Zionist movement will continue until the Jewish people are once more living a normal national life, when it will be transformed into the active expression of that normal national life. The Zionist Organization, when the particular phase of Jewish national life which called into being this special instrumentality has passed, will merge into some other instrumentality.
Click to expand...

Best example of what you stated below is the near total annihilation of the indigenous Zoroastrians of Persia after the Muslim invasion whereby the native Zoroastrians were forced to convert, leave or be killed.  Hence the majority fled to India as the Parsis.

Zionism is not any different from the Kurdish movement, The Copts, Berbers, and every other indigenous people who have had their lands invaded by Muslims and saw thousands of Arabs migrants moving into it, until they became the minority.


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## Sixties Fan

Nowhere in that article is there any mention of a people called Palestinians, July 1919.

The article does not say that the Jews wanted to create, instead of re create, their Nation on someone else's homeland instead of just theirs.

Attempts were made, at some point, to try to make the Jews re create their Nation in Congo, or Uganda, and Australia, where none of those places IS the Jewish homeland, and the Jews would have indeed been taking over another indigenous people's land.

Had the Jewish people accepted a National home away from their homeland, clearly there would have been Christians and Muslims who would have done the same thing the Arabs did.  Attack and deny them any right to be there.

Therefore, if the Jews must defend and protect themselves on any land, it could only be Their Ancient homeland, which got cut off by 78% during the Mandate in 1922 when the British gave that land to the foreign Hashemites.


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## watchingfromafar

Roudy said:


> Of course they don't want to mention that so called "Palestinian" terrorist animals are known to intentionally attack and kill Jewish kids and infants in all kinds of settings such as nurseries and schools.


you are lying but that is not new for the likes of you
-


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## watchingfromafar

Sixties Fan said:


> Nation in Congo, or Uganda, and Australia, where none of those places IS the Jewish homeland, and the Jews would have indeed been taking over another indigenous people's land.


_Is the land of “Israel” their true ancient homeland?

*Promised Land*

“Moses went up Mount Nebo to the top of Pisgah, looked over the *promised land of Israel* spread out before him, and died, at the age of one hundred and twenty, according to Talmudic legend on 7 Adar, his 120th birthday exactly. 

 Moab is the historical name for a mountainous strip of land in modern-day _*Jordan* _running along the eastern shore of the _*Dead Sea**.  *_In ancient times, it was home to the kingdom of the Moabites, a people often in conflict with their Israelite neighbors to the west.

 The Moabites were a historical people, whose existence is attested to by numerous archeological findings, most notably the __Mesha Stele__, which describes the Moabite victory over an unnamed son of __King_ _Omri__ of __Israel__. Their capital was _*Dibon**, *_located next to the modern Jordanian town of _*Dhiban**.*_”_
_http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Moab_

From there they moved to Egypt
(Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:
(Gen 45:20 KJV) Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.
(Gen 45:21 KJV) *And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.*
(Gen 47:1 KJV) *Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.*
(Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.

Based on the above the* “Promised Land” *is not the land the Jews are occupying today. In biblical verse terms the Jews were nomads who were wonderers living off of the land grazing their sheep on the open plains.
-


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## surada

MJB12741 said:


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> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A publication on education in greater Syria from 1882 showed that there were a total of 3,854 students in school in Jerusalem (2,768 boys and 1,086 girls) and 235 teachers.28 The number of girls in Christian schools (Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, Latin, Greek Catholic, and Armenian) were slightly more than the number of boys (926 girls to 861 boys). While the majority of these students were Christians,
> four of the Evangelical schools (two for boys and two for girls) totaling 138 students exclusively taught Jews. In addition, there were 1,707 students in Jewish schools, 160 of which were girls. In the eight Muslim schools, all of which were for boys, there were 360 students. In 1891, the Government opened a general [secondary] school (Rushdiya) [sic] in our city, where all the children of the city, regardless of their religion, could attend classes in Arabic, Turkish, French, and the basic sciences.29 It was also recorded that a Muslim school for girls had been established.30
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many, many Jews lived in Damascus since before the time of Christ. Not many stayed in Palestine if they could get out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again. The Jews maintained a presence throughout the ages, and it wasn't even called "Palestine" by the Ottomans who controlled the land for the last 600 years before WWI, who were Muslims themselves, they called it Southern Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. It was a province of Syria called Syria-Palestine. Have you read Ibn Battuta or Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela. Jews were a tiny minority. Look at the Quarters of the old city.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The issue has never been about how many Jews were on their ancient homeland.
> 
> The issue has been since 1948 as to whether an invading people like the Europeans in the Americans, Australia,  can ever claim and appropriate themselves of indigenous archeology, culture and history in order to deny the indigenous people their rightful sovereignty over that land.
> 
> That is what the Arabs have been doing to the Jewish people.
> 
> Diminishing the issue to Numbers of population, does nothing but deny the Jewish people their legal right to fight for sovereignty of their own land, and especially as they ended up with ONLY 20% of it, and the invaders continue to demand that 20% for them, in the future leaving the Jews with no land to be sovereign over.
> 
> Whatever your childhood upbringing was, it has been augmented by the Romancing of Arabia, and all that Muslims have achieved at the cost of all indigenous people of the lands they moved into.
> 
> Arabs did not conquer the Middle East, the Kurds did.
> Arabs did not conquer the South of Spain, the Moors did.
> 
> Kurds, Copts, Berbers, Assyrians and others have no right to be sovereign over their ancient lands, anymore than too many tribes in the American and Australian continents.
> 
> Numbers of populations throughout any invasion are meaningless as it does not take away any indigenous people their sovereign right to those lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its against international law to colonized land taken in war. Palestine was NEVER just inhabited by Jews. They are Canaanites just like all the other Canaanites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are changing history.
> 
> Modern Arabs are not Canaanites.
> Palestinians are not Canaanites.
> 
> "Its against international law to colonized land taken in war."
> 
> Tell that to the Muslims and Arabs and Turks, who have been warring against the indigenous people of the Middle East and North Africa, and colonizing each and every part of it, at the cost of indigenous rights.
> 
> When Arab states invade a legally formed state only because it is Jewish, the Jewish people have every right to defend themselves.
> 
> Unfortunately the Muslim and Christian population which follows the Muslim leaders with their lies, are the ones who continue to pay the price in not having a State of their own, something they could have had in 1936, 1947 and 2000.
> 
> Actions have consequences.
> 
> Teaching hateful things about an indigenous people because they are Jewish has consequences.
> 
> Again and again, attacking not only the Jewish country but the people who live in it, including Israeli Arabs, Druze, etc....has its consequences.
> 
> Hatred for the other since the 1st century, has its consequences.
> 
> Hatred for the other.....since the 7th century, has its consequences.
> 
> Christians and Muslims have hated and murdered too many Jews and done anything they thought they had the right to do with the Jews and their land.
> 
> The legal re creation of Israel, in order to defend and protect the Jewish people, is the consequence of all of these centuries of learned hatred.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How would you like for your population to double in 15 years with foreigners?
> 
> The Zionist Colonization of Palestine - Truthdig
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionist Colonization of Palestine
> 
> 
> For more than a century Zionists and, later, Israelis have pursued a project to seize and ethnically cleanse Palestinian land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.truthdig.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not the product of ancient ethnic hatreds. It is the tragic clash between two peoples with claims to the same land. It is a manufactured conflict, the outcome of...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Revised history designed to destroy Israel, and Jewish sovereignty of what is left of their ancient homeland.
> 
> 78% of the Jewish homeland was GIVEN to the foreign Hashemites in 1922.
> 
> All you read is anti Israel articles.
> Anti Jewish articles.
> 
> "Zionists are indigenous Europeans come to take the land from indigenous Arabs, as if....Arabs were indigenous of Ancient Canaan."
> 
> "The Jewish population were few
> The Jews ethnically cleansed the Arabs from "their" lands"
> 
> 
> Your lack of sense of history comes from romancing Arabs and Islam for most of your life.
> 
> Most, if not all your sources are people who fell in love with Islam and Arabs and their culture.
> 
> Can you introspect for any short time to find out if what I am saying could be true, and therefore your beliefs might be painted by them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you read Zionist Aspirations  in Palestine, Atlantic Magazine July 1920?
> 
> Jews have been rewriting history for thousands of years. What about all those other people who lived in Palestine.. All those Canaanite tribes and Arabs etc? They didn't suddenly disappear?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Apparently you have not, and chose to read only the parts which matter to delegitimizing any Jewish rights to the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Zionism is not any different from the Kurdish movement, The Copts, Berbers, and every other indigenous people who have had their lands invaded by Muslims and saw thousands of Arabs migrants moving into it, util they became the minority.
> 
> Here is part of it:
> 
> "The idea of Judaism is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish people, and the idea of the Jewish people is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish land"
> 
> By H. Sacher
> 
> *THE Zionist movement dates from A.D. 70*, the year of the destruction of the Temple and the Jewish State. The Zionist Organization dates from 1897, the year of the first Zionist Congress. The *Zionist movement is a longing and striving to restore to the Jewish people normal national life. *The Zionist Organization is a particular instrumentality for achieving that end. The Zionist movement will continue until the Jewish people are once more living a normal national life, when it will be transformed into the active expression of that normal national life. The Zionist Organization, when the particular phase of Jewish national life which called into being this special instrumentality has passed, will merge into some other instrumentality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Best example of what you stated below is the near total annihilation of the indigenous Zoroastrians of Persia after the Muslim invasion whereby the native Zoroastrians were forced to convert, leave or be killed.  Hence the majority fled to India as the Parsis.
> 
> Zionism is not any different from the Kurdish movement, The Copts, Berbers, and every other indigenous people who have had their lands invaded by Muslims and saw thousands of Arabs migrants moving into it, until they became the minority.
Click to expand...


Arabs were in Palestine, Syria and the Levant long before Islam. Remember both Abraham and Moses had Arab wives.. Keturah and Zipporah.


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## surada

watchingfromafar said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nation in Congo, or Uganda, and Australia, where none of those places IS the Jewish homeland, and the Jews would have indeed been taking over another indigenous people's land.
> 
> 
> 
> _Is the land of “Israel” their true ancient homeland?
> 
> *Promised Land*
> 
> “Moses went up Mount Nebo to the top of Pisgah, looked over the *promised land of Israel* spread out before him, and died, at the age of one hundred and twenty, according to Talmudic legend on 7 Adar, his 120th birthday exactly.
> 
> Moab is the historical name for a mountainous strip of land in modern-day _*Jordan* _running along the eastern shore of the _*Dead Sea**.  *_In ancient times, it was home to the kingdom of the Moabites, a people often in conflict with their Israelite neighbors to the west.
> 
> The Moabites were a historical people, whose existence is attested to by numerous archeological findings, most notably the __Mesha Stele__, which describes the Moabite victory over an unnamed son of __King_ _Omri__ of __Israel__. Their capital was _*Dibon**, *_located next to the modern Jordanian town of _*Dhiban**.*_”_
> _http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Moab_
> 
> From there they moved to Egypt
> (Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:
> (Gen 45:20 KJV) Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.
> (Gen 45:21 KJV) *And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.*
> (Gen 47:1 KJV) *Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.*
> (Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.
> 
> Based on the above the* “Promised Land” *is not the land the Jews are occupying today. In biblical verse terms the Jews were nomads who were wonderers living off of the land grazing their sheep on the open plains.
> -
Click to expand...


Wagons are no good in the desert.  Nomads have a symbiotic relationship with townies.. That's how they survive.


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## Sixties Fan

watchingfromafar said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nation in Congo, or Uganda, and Australia, where none of those places IS the Jewish homeland, and the Jews would have indeed been taking over another indigenous people's land.
> 
> 
> 
> _Is the land of “Israel” their true ancient homeland?
> 
> *Promised Land*
> 
> “Moses went up Mount Nebo to the top of Pisgah, looked over the *promised land of Israel* spread out before him, and died, at the age of one hundred and twenty, according to Talmudic legend on 7 Adar, his 120th birthday exactly. _
> 
> _Moab is the historical name for a mountainous strip of land in modern-day _*Jordan* _running along the eastern shore of the _*Dead Sea**.  *_In ancient times, it was home to the kingdom of the Moabites, a people often in conflict with their Israelite neighbors to the west._
> 
> _The Moabites were a historical people, whose existence is attested to by numerous archeological findings, most notably the __Mesha Stele__, which describes the Moabite victory over an unnamed son of __King_ _Omri__ of __Israel__. Their capital was _*Dibon**, *_located next to the modern Jordanian town of _*Dhiban**.*_”_
> _http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Moab_
> 
> From there they moved to Egypt
> (Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:
> (Gen 45:20 KJV) Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.
> (Gen 45:21 KJV) *And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.*
> (Gen 47:1 KJV) *Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.*
> (Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.
> 
> Based on the above the* “Promised Land” *is not the land the Jews are occupying today. In biblical verse terms the Jews were nomads who were wonderers living off of the land grazing their sheep on the open plains.
> -
Click to expand...

I find it beyond humorous, that many people who have lost the identity their ancestors had, or of a separate people, with a separate culture and history, go around forums and other places, on tv and media, telling the Jewish people that they do not know their ancient history, they are not descended from those ancient people, etc......

Exactly because they have so embraced the new culture which was basically shoved down their ancestor's throat, be they Christians or Muslims, Hindus, Buddists, even Jews.........they can only continue to embrace the hatred created by Christianity and Islam as an excuse to anything and everything which goes wrong in this world....

AS IF......things going bad, nature, humans, animals, plagues, etc......all came to be when the Judaism came to be.

It is a very sad illness, toxic to the core, and cannot be eradicated because those who practice a "solution" to all of those maladies would find themselves to be the fools...... for once all the Jews are gone, dead or converted, those problems and worse would continue to exist.

Then......they will start hunting for those who "were Jews " before and accuse them of not having left it and not being true.  Yes, the Inquisition all over again.


The Right to Destroy Jewish History has never been worse at its believer's core than during and after the Holocaust.

Jews are not humans.  Do NOT care about their history, the history also found in the writings of every people they dealt with, and every invader, conqueror, who to this day have not changed their history books to wipe out the Jews as a people.

NT and Koran have not wiped the Jewish people out.

But today Christians  and Muslims want to do exactly that.

Am Israel Chai
The People of Israel Live


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


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> Roudy said:
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> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
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> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A publication on education in greater Syria from 1882 showed that there were a total of 3,854 students in school in Jerusalem (2,768 boys and 1,086 girls) and 235 teachers.28 The number of girls in Christian schools (Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, Latin, Greek Catholic, and Armenian) were slightly more than the number of boys (926 girls to 861 boys). While the majority of these students were Christians,
> four of the Evangelical schools (two for boys and two for girls) totaling 138 students exclusively taught Jews. In addition, there were 1,707 students in Jewish schools, 160 of which were girls. In the eight Muslim schools, all of which were for boys, there were 360 students. In 1891, the Government opened a general [secondary] school (Rushdiya) [sic] in our city, where all the children of the city, regardless of their religion, could attend classes in Arabic, Turkish, French, and the basic sciences.29 It was also recorded that a Muslim school for girls had been established.30
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many, many Jews lived in Damascus since before the time of Christ. Not many stayed in Palestine if they could get out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again. The Jews maintained a presence throughout the ages, and it wasn't even called "Palestine" by the Ottomans who controlled the land for the last 600 years before WWI, who were Muslims themselves, they called it Southern Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. It was a province of Syria called Syria-Palestine. Have you read Ibn Battuta or Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela. Jews were a tiny minority. Look at the Quarters of the old city.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The issue has never been about how many Jews were on their ancient homeland.
> 
> The issue has been since 1948 as to whether an invading people like the Europeans in the Americans, Australia,  can ever claim and appropriate themselves of indigenous archeology, culture and history in order to deny the indigenous people their rightful sovereignty over that land.
> 
> That is what the Arabs have been doing to the Jewish people.
> 
> Diminishing the issue to Numbers of population, does nothing but deny the Jewish people their legal right to fight for sovereignty of their own land, and especially as they ended up with ONLY 20% of it, and the invaders continue to demand that 20% for them, in the future leaving the Jews with no land to be sovereign over.
> 
> Whatever your childhood upbringing was, it has been augmented by the Romancing of Arabia, and all that Muslims have achieved at the cost of all indigenous people of the lands they moved into.
> 
> Arabs did not conquer the Middle East, the Kurds did.
> Arabs did not conquer the South of Spain, the Moors did.
> 
> Kurds, Copts, Berbers, Assyrians and others have no right to be sovereign over their ancient lands, anymore than too many tribes in the American and Australian continents.
> 
> Numbers of populations throughout any invasion are meaningless as it does not take away any indigenous people their sovereign right to those lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its against international law to colonized land taken in war. Palestine was NEVER just inhabited by Jews. They are Canaanites just like all the other Canaanites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are changing history.
> 
> Modern Arabs are not Canaanites.
> Palestinians are not Canaanites.
> 
> "Its against international law to colonized land taken in war."
> 
> Tell that to the Muslims and Arabs and Turks, who have been warring against the indigenous people of the Middle East and North Africa, and colonizing each and every part of it, at the cost of indigenous rights.
> 
> When Arab states invade a legally formed state only because it is Jewish, the Jewish people have every right to defend themselves.
> 
> Unfortunately the Muslim and Christian population which follows the Muslim leaders with their lies, are the ones who continue to pay the price in not having a State of their own, something they could have had in 1936, 1947 and 2000.
> 
> Actions have consequences.
> 
> Teaching hateful things about an indigenous people because they are Jewish has consequences.
> 
> Again and again, attacking not only the Jewish country but the people who live in it, including Israeli Arabs, Druze, etc....has its consequences.
> 
> Hatred for the other since the 1st century, has its consequences.
> 
> Hatred for the other.....since the 7th century, has its consequences.
> 
> Christians and Muslims have hated and murdered too many Jews and done anything they thought they had the right to do with the Jews and their land.
> 
> The legal re creation of Israel, in order to defend and protect the Jewish people, is the consequence of all of these centuries of learned hatred.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How would you like for your population to double in 15 years with foreigners?
> 
> The Zionist Colonization of Palestine - Truthdig
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionist Colonization of Palestine
> 
> 
> For more than a century Zionists and, later, Israelis have pursued a project to seize and ethnically cleanse Palestinian land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.truthdig.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not the product of ancient ethnic hatreds. It is the tragic clash between two peoples with claims to the same land. It is a manufactured conflict, the outcome of...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Revised history designed to destroy Israel, and Jewish sovereignty of what is left of their ancient homeland.
> 
> 78% of the Jewish homeland was GIVEN to the foreign Hashemites in 1922.
> 
> All you read is anti Israel articles.
> Anti Jewish articles.
> 
> "Zionists are indigenous Europeans come to take the land from indigenous Arabs, as if....Arabs were indigenous of Ancient Canaan."
> 
> "The Jewish population were few
> The Jews ethnically cleansed the Arabs from "their" lands"
> 
> 
> Your lack of sense of history comes from romancing Arabs and Islam for most of your life.
> 
> Most, if not all your sources are people who fell in love with Islam and Arabs and their culture.
> 
> Can you introspect for any short time to find out if what I am saying could be true, and therefore your beliefs might be painted by them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you read Zionist Aspirations  in Palestine, Atlantic Magazine July 1920?
> 
> Jews have been rewriting history for thousands of years. What about all those other people who lived in Palestine.. All those Canaanite tribes and Arabs etc? They didn't suddenly disappear?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Apparently you have not, and chose to read only the parts which matter to delegitimizing any Jewish rights to the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Zionism is not any different from the Kurdish movement, The Copts, Berbers, and every other indigenous people who have had their lands invaded by Muslims and saw thousands of Arabs migrants moving into it, util they became the minority.
> 
> Here is part of it:
> 
> "The idea of Judaism is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish people, and the idea of the Jewish people is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish land"
> 
> By H. Sacher
> 
> *THE Zionist movement dates from A.D. 70*, the year of the destruction of the Temple and the Jewish State. The Zionist Organization dates from 1897, the year of the first Zionist Congress. The *Zionist movement is a longing and striving to restore to the Jewish people normal national life. *The Zionist Organization is a particular instrumentality for achieving that end. The Zionist movement will continue until the Jewish people are once more living a normal national life, when it will be transformed into the active expression of that normal national life. The Zionist Organization, when the particular phase of Jewish national life which called into being this special instrumentality has passed, will merge into some other instrumentality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Best example of what you stated below is the near total annihilation of the indigenous Zoroastrians of Persia after the Muslim invasion whereby the native Zoroastrians were forced to convert, leave or be killed.  Hence the majority fled to India as the Parsis.
> 
> Zionism is not any different from the Kurdish movement, The Copts, Berbers, and every other indigenous people who have had their lands invaded by Muslims and saw thousands of Arabs migrants moving into it, until they became the minority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine, Syria and the Levant long before Islam. Remember both Abraham and Moses had Arab wives.. Keturah and Zipporah.
Click to expand...

I would love to see that passage in the Koran, where Mohammad says that Keturah and Zipporah were Arabs, and how Arabs should be proud of that .

Start reading the Koran


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## watchingfromafar

Sixties Fan said:


> NT and Koran have not wiped the Jewish people out.
> But today Christians and Muslims want to do exactly that.


bla.,.,bla.,.,.bla.,,then the fart filled the air
-


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nation in Congo, or Uganda, and Australia, where none of those places IS the Jewish homeland, and the Jews would have indeed been taking over another indigenous people's land.
> 
> 
> 
> _Is the land of “Israel” their true ancient homeland?
> 
> *Promised Land*
> 
> “Moses went up Mount Nebo to the top of Pisgah, looked over the *promised land of Israel* spread out before him, and died, at the age of one hundred and twenty, according to Talmudic legend on 7 Adar, his 120th birthday exactly. _
> 
> _Moab is the historical name for a mountainous strip of land in modern-day _*Jordan* _running along the eastern shore of the _*Dead Sea**.  *_In ancient times, it was home to the kingdom of the Moabites, a people often in conflict with their Israelite neighbors to the west._
> 
> _The Moabites were a historical people, whose existence is attested to by numerous archeological findings, most notably the __Mesha Stele__, which describes the Moabite victory over an unnamed son of __King_ _Omri__ of __Israel__. Their capital was _*Dibon**, *_located next to the modern Jordanian town of _*Dhiban**.*_”_
> _http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Moab_
> 
> From there they moved to Egypt
> (Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:
> (Gen 45:20 KJV) Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.
> (Gen 45:21 KJV) *And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.*
> (Gen 47:1 KJV) *Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.*
> (Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.
> 
> Based on the above the* “Promised Land” *is not the land the Jews are occupying today. In biblical verse terms the Jews were nomads who were wonderers living off of the land grazing their sheep on the open plains.
> -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I find it beyond humorous, that many people who have lost the identity their ancestors had, or of a separate people, with a separate culture and history, go around forums and other places, on tv and media, telling the Jewish people that they do not know their ancient history, they are not descended from those ancient people, etc......
> 
> Exactly because they have so embraced the new culture which was basically shoved down their ancestor's throat, be they Christians or Muslims, Hindus, Buddists, even Jews.........they can only continue to embrace the hatred created by Christianity and Islam as an excuse to anything and everything which goes wrong in this world....
> 
> AS IF......things going bad, nature, humans, animals, plagues, etc......all came to be when the Judaism came to be.
> 
> It is a very sad illness, toxic to the core, and cannot be eradicated because those who practice a "solution" to all of those maladies would find themselves to be the fools...... for once all the Jews are gone, dead or converted, those problems and worse would continue to exist.
> 
> Then......they will start hunting for those who "were Jews " before and accuse them of not having left it and not being true.  Yes, the Inquisition all over again.
> 
> 
> The Right to Destroy Jewish History has never been worse at its believer's core than during and after the Holocaust.
> 
> Jews are not humans.  Do NOT care about their history, the history also found in the writings of every people they dealt with, and every invader, conqueror, who to this day have not changed their history books to wipe out the Jews as a people.
> 
> NT and Koran have not wiped the Jewish people out.
> 
> But today Christians  and Muslims want to do exactly that.
> 
> Am Israel Chai
> The People of Israel Live
Click to expand...


So you make these claims to justify taking ancestral lands from everybody else?? Nobody wants to wipe out the Jews. What a vile accusation. Even the Torah tells you these are your half brothers and cousins.


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


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> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
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> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
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> www.thejakartapost.com
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> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
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> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
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> 
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> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> A publication on education in greater Syria from 1882 showed that there were a total of 3,854 students in school in Jerusalem (2,768 boys and 1,086 girls) and 235 teachers.28 The number of girls in Christian schools (Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, Latin, Greek Catholic, and Armenian) were slightly more than the number of boys (926 girls to 861 boys). While the majority of these students were Christians,
> four of the Evangelical schools (two for boys and two for girls) totaling 138 students exclusively taught Jews. In addition, there were 1,707 students in Jewish schools, 160 of which were girls. In the eight Muslim schools, all of which were for boys, there were 360 students. In 1891, the Government opened a general [secondary] school (Rushdiya) [sic] in our city, where all the children of the city, regardless of their religion, could attend classes in Arabic, Turkish, French, and the basic sciences.29 It was also recorded that a Muslim school for girls had been established.30
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many, many Jews lived in Damascus since before the time of Christ. Not many stayed in Palestine if they could get out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again. The Jews maintained a presence throughout the ages, and it wasn't even called "Palestine" by the Ottomans who controlled the land for the last 600 years before WWI, who were Muslims themselves, they called it Southern Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. It was a province of Syria called Syria-Palestine. Have you read Ibn Battuta or Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela. Jews were a tiny minority. Look at the Quarters of the old city.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The issue has never been about how many Jews were on their ancient homeland.
> 
> The issue has been since 1948 as to whether an invading people like the Europeans in the Americans, Australia,  can ever claim and appropriate themselves of indigenous archeology, culture and history in order to deny the indigenous people their rightful sovereignty over that land.
> 
> That is what the Arabs have been doing to the Jewish people.
> 
> Diminishing the issue to Numbers of population, does nothing but deny the Jewish people their legal right to fight for sovereignty of their own land, and especially as they ended up with ONLY 20% of it, and the invaders continue to demand that 20% for them, in the future leaving the Jews with no land to be sovereign over.
> 
> Whatever your childhood upbringing was, it has been augmented by the Romancing of Arabia, and all that Muslims have achieved at the cost of all indigenous people of the lands they moved into.
> 
> Arabs did not conquer the Middle East, the Kurds did.
> Arabs did not conquer the South of Spain, the Moors did.
> 
> Kurds, Copts, Berbers, Assyrians and others have no right to be sovereign over their ancient lands, anymore than too many tribes in the American and Australian continents.
> 
> Numbers of populations throughout any invasion are meaningless as it does not take away any indigenous people their sovereign right to those lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its against international law to colonized land taken in war. Palestine was NEVER just inhabited by Jews. They are Canaanites just like all the other Canaanites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are changing history.
> 
> Modern Arabs are not Canaanites.
> Palestinians are not Canaanites.
> 
> "Its against international law to colonized land taken in war."
> 
> Tell that to the Muslims and Arabs and Turks, who have been warring against the indigenous people of the Middle East and North Africa, and colonizing each and every part of it, at the cost of indigenous rights.
> 
> When Arab states invade a legally formed state only because it is Jewish, the Jewish people have every right to defend themselves.
> 
> Unfortunately the Muslim and Christian population which follows the Muslim leaders with their lies, are the ones who continue to pay the price in not having a State of their own, something they could have had in 1936, 1947 and 2000.
> 
> Actions have consequences.
> 
> Teaching hateful things about an indigenous people because they are Jewish has consequences.
> 
> Again and again, attacking not only the Jewish country but the people who live in it, including Israeli Arabs, Druze, etc....has its consequences.
> 
> Hatred for the other since the 1st century, has its consequences.
> 
> Hatred for the other.....since the 7th century, has its consequences.
> 
> Christians and Muslims have hated and murdered too many Jews and done anything they thought they had the right to do with the Jews and their land.
> 
> The legal re creation of Israel, in order to defend and protect the Jewish people, is the consequence of all of these centuries of learned hatred.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How would you like for your population to double in 15 years with foreigners?
> 
> The Zionist Colonization of Palestine - Truthdig
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionist Colonization of Palestine
> 
> 
> For more than a century Zionists and, later, Israelis have pursued a project to seize and ethnically cleanse Palestinian land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.truthdig.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not the product of ancient ethnic hatreds. It is the tragic clash between two peoples with claims to the same land. It is a manufactured conflict, the outcome of...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Revised history designed to destroy Israel, and Jewish sovereignty of what is left of their ancient homeland.
> 
> 78% of the Jewish homeland was GIVEN to the foreign Hashemites in 1922.
> 
> All you read is anti Israel articles.
> Anti Jewish articles.
> 
> "Zionists are indigenous Europeans come to take the land from indigenous Arabs, as if....Arabs were indigenous of Ancient Canaan."
> 
> "The Jewish population were few
> The Jews ethnically cleansed the Arabs from "their" lands"
> 
> 
> Your lack of sense of history comes from romancing Arabs and Islam for most of your life.
> 
> Most, if not all your sources are people who fell in love with Islam and Arabs and their culture.
> 
> Can you introspect for any short time to find out if what I am saying could be true, and therefore your beliefs might be painted by them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you read Zionist Aspirations  in Palestine, Atlantic Magazine July 1920?
> 
> Jews have been rewriting history for thousands of years. What about all those other people who lived in Palestine.. All those Canaanite tribes and Arabs etc? They didn't suddenly disappear?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Apparently you have not, and chose to read only the parts which matter to delegitimizing any Jewish rights to the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Zionism is not any different from the Kurdish movement, The Copts, Berbers, and every other indigenous people who have had their lands invaded by Muslims and saw thousands of Arabs migrants moving into it, util they became the minority.
> 
> Here is part of it:
> 
> "The idea of Judaism is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish people, and the idea of the Jewish people is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish land"
> 
> By H. Sacher
> 
> *THE Zionist movement dates from A.D. 70*, the year of the destruction of the Temple and the Jewish State. The Zionist Organization dates from 1897, the year of the first Zionist Congress. The *Zionist movement is a longing and striving to restore to the Jewish people normal national life. *The Zionist Organization is a particular instrumentality for achieving that end. The Zionist movement will continue until the Jewish people are once more living a normal national life, when it will be transformed into the active expression of that normal national life. The Zionist Organization, when the particular phase of Jewish national life which called into being this special instrumentality has passed, will merge into some other instrumentality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Best example of what you stated below is the near total annihilation of the indigenous Zoroastrians of Persia after the Muslim invasion whereby the native Zoroastrians were forced to convert, leave or be killed.  Hence the majority fled to India as the Parsis.
> 
> Zionism is not any different from the Kurdish movement, The Copts, Berbers, and every other indigenous people who have had their lands invaded by Muslims and saw thousands of Arabs migrants moving into it, until they became the minority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine, Syria and the Levant long before Islam. Remember both Abraham and Moses had Arab wives.. Keturah and Zipporah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would love to see that passage in the Koran, where Mohammad says that Keturah and Zipporah were Arabs, and how Arabs should be proud of that .
> 
> Start reading the Koran
Click to expand...


Are you  kidding me? Didn't you know they were Arab women?


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## watchingfromafar

*The Right To Destroy Jewish History

Ezekiel*
Chapter 21
1 _And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,_

2 *Son of man, set thy face toward Jerusalem, and drop thy word toward the holy places, and prophesy against the land of Israel,*

3 *And say to the land of Israel, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I am against thee, *_and will draw forth my sword out of his sheath, and will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked._

22 _At his right hand was the divination for *Jerusalem,* to appoint captains, to open the mouth in the slaughter, to lift up the voice with shouting,_* to appoint battering rams against the gates, to cast a mount, and to build a fort.*

23 _And it shall be unto them as a false divination in their sight, to them that have sworn oaths: but he will call to remembrance the iniquity, that they may be taken._

24 _Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; *Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered*, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand._

25 *And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,*

27 _I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him._

28 _And thou, son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD concerning the Ammonites, and concerning their reproach; even say thou, The sword, the sword is drawn: for the slaughter it is furbished, to consume because of the glittering:_

29 _Whiles they see vanity unto thee, whiles they divine a lie unto thee, to bring thee upon the necks of them that are slain, of the wicked, whose day is come, when their iniquity shall have an end._

30 _Shall I cause it to return into his sheath? *I will judge thee in the place where thou wast created*, in the land of thy nativity._
*The day of judgement is upon them*​31 *And I will pour out mine indignation upon thee*_, I will blow against thee in the fire of my wrath, and deliver thee into the hand of brutish men, and skilful to destroy._

32 *Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.
-*


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
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> watchingfromafar said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Nation in Congo, or Uganda, and Australia, where none of those places IS the Jewish homeland, and the Jews would have indeed been taking over another indigenous people's land.
> 
> 
> 
> _Is the land of “Israel” their true ancient homeland?
> 
> *Promised Land*
> 
> “Moses went up Mount Nebo to the top of Pisgah, looked over the *promised land of Israel* spread out before him, and died, at the age of one hundred and twenty, according to Talmudic legend on 7 Adar, his 120th birthday exactly. _
> 
> _Moab is the historical name for a mountainous strip of land in modern-day _*Jordan* _running along the eastern shore of the _*Dead Sea**.  *_In ancient times, it was home to the kingdom of the Moabites, a people often in conflict with their Israelite neighbors to the west._
> 
> _The Moabites were a historical people, whose existence is attested to by numerous archeological findings, most notably the __Mesha Stele__, which describes the Moabite victory over an unnamed son of __King_ _Omri__ of __Israel__. Their capital was _*Dibon**, *_located next to the modern Jordanian town of _*Dhiban**.*_”_
> _http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Moab_
> 
> From there they moved to Egypt
> (Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:
> (Gen 45:20 KJV) Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.
> (Gen 45:21 KJV) *And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.*
> (Gen 47:1 KJV) *Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.*
> (Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.
> 
> Based on the above the* “Promised Land” *is not the land the Jews are occupying today. In biblical verse terms the Jews were nomads who were wonderers living off of the land grazing their sheep on the open plains.
> -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I find it beyond humorous, that many people who have lost the identity their ancestors had, or of a separate people, with a separate culture and history, go around forums and other places, on tv and media, telling the Jewish people that they do not know their ancient history, they are not descended from those ancient people, etc......
> 
> Exactly because they have so embraced the new culture which was basically shoved down their ancestor's throat, be they Christians or Muslims, Hindus, Buddists, even Jews.........they can only continue to embrace the hatred created by Christianity and Islam as an excuse to anything and everything which goes wrong in this world....
> 
> AS IF......things going bad, nature, humans, animals, plagues, etc......all came to be when the Judaism came to be.
> 
> It is a very sad illness, toxic to the core, and cannot be eradicated because those who practice a "solution" to all of those maladies would find themselves to be the fools...... for once all the Jews are gone, dead or converted, those problems and worse would continue to exist.
> 
> Then......they will start hunting for those who "were Jews " before and accuse them of not having left it and not being true.  Yes, the Inquisition all over again.
> 
> 
> The Right to Destroy Jewish History has never been worse at its believer's core than during and after the Holocaust.
> 
> Jews are not humans.  Do NOT care about their history, the history also found in the writings of every people they dealt with, and every invader, conqueror, who to this day have not changed their history books to wipe out the Jews as a people.
> 
> NT and Koran have not wiped the Jewish people out.
> 
> But today Christians  and Muslims want to do exactly that.
> 
> Am Israel Chai
> The People of Israel Live
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you make these claims to justify taking ancestral lands from everybody else?? Nobody wants to wipe out the Jews. What a vile accusation. Even the Torah tells you these are your half brothers and cousins.
Click to expand...

The Ancestral lands became Israel 3000 years ago.  And then others came and took from that.  One only has to read history written by the Greeks, Romans, Byzantine, etc

But the Jews are the only who remain with a non stop history on the land.  All the others blended with the other populations, or moved away.


I am sorry that you still do not get what the Holocaust in Europe was about. Aided by the Husseini clan who planned on building Concentration Camps in Palestine once Germany won the war, which it did not.


Keep believing that Husseini did not want to wipe out the Jews, as the Nazis did, as he himself did in Bosnia during WWII.

What in the world would those Concentration Camps have been for?

Our Half Brothers and Cousins have committed incredible crimes against the Jewish people for 
the past 2000 years.  Have negated the Jewish people any form of respect.  And continue to do so.

Which is exactly why Hagar and Ishmael were thrown out of Abraham's home.

You, and others, want the People of Abraham to embrace those who call themselves descendants of Ishmael, while this very people continue to look for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people as a free people.

Not even Ishmael had the audacity to attack Abraham and his tribe as revenge or feeling of superiority.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


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> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
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> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
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> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> A publication on education in greater Syria from 1882 showed that there were a total of 3,854 students in school in Jerusalem (2,768 boys and 1,086 girls) and 235 teachers.28 The number of girls in Christian schools (Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, Latin, Greek Catholic, and Armenian) were slightly more than the number of boys (926 girls to 861 boys). While the majority of these students were Christians,
> four of the Evangelical schools (two for boys and two for girls) totaling 138 students exclusively taught Jews. In addition, there were 1,707 students in Jewish schools, 160 of which were girls. In the eight Muslim schools, all of which were for boys, there were 360 students. In 1891, the Government opened a general [secondary] school (Rushdiya) [sic] in our city, where all the children of the city, regardless of their religion, could attend classes in Arabic, Turkish, French, and the basic sciences.29 It was also recorded that a Muslim school for girls had been established.30
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many, many Jews lived in Damascus since before the time of Christ. Not many stayed in Palestine if they could get out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again. The Jews maintained a presence throughout the ages, and it wasn't even called "Palestine" by the Ottomans who controlled the land for the last 600 years before WWI, who were Muslims themselves, they called it Southern Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. It was a province of Syria called Syria-Palestine. Have you read Ibn Battuta or Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela. Jews were a tiny minority. Look at the Quarters of the old city.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The issue has never been about how many Jews were on their ancient homeland.
> 
> The issue has been since 1948 as to whether an invading people like the Europeans in the Americans, Australia,  can ever claim and appropriate themselves of indigenous archeology, culture and history in order to deny the indigenous people their rightful sovereignty over that land.
> 
> That is what the Arabs have been doing to the Jewish people.
> 
> Diminishing the issue to Numbers of population, does nothing but deny the Jewish people their legal right to fight for sovereignty of their own land, and especially as they ended up with ONLY 20% of it, and the invaders continue to demand that 20% for them, in the future leaving the Jews with no land to be sovereign over.
> 
> Whatever your childhood upbringing was, it has been augmented by the Romancing of Arabia, and all that Muslims have achieved at the cost of all indigenous people of the lands they moved into.
> 
> Arabs did not conquer the Middle East, the Kurds did.
> Arabs did not conquer the South of Spain, the Moors did.
> 
> Kurds, Copts, Berbers, Assyrians and others have no right to be sovereign over their ancient lands, anymore than too many tribes in the American and Australian continents.
> 
> Numbers of populations throughout any invasion are meaningless as it does not take away any indigenous people their sovereign right to those lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its against international law to colonized land taken in war. Palestine was NEVER just inhabited by Jews. They are Canaanites just like all the other Canaanites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are changing history.
> 
> Modern Arabs are not Canaanites.
> Palestinians are not Canaanites.
> 
> "Its against international law to colonized land taken in war."
> 
> Tell that to the Muslims and Arabs and Turks, who have been warring against the indigenous people of the Middle East and North Africa, and colonizing each and every part of it, at the cost of indigenous rights.
> 
> When Arab states invade a legally formed state only because it is Jewish, the Jewish people have every right to defend themselves.
> 
> Unfortunately the Muslim and Christian population which follows the Muslim leaders with their lies, are the ones who continue to pay the price in not having a State of their own, something they could have had in 1936, 1947 and 2000.
> 
> Actions have consequences.
> 
> Teaching hateful things about an indigenous people because they are Jewish has consequences.
> 
> Again and again, attacking not only the Jewish country but the people who live in it, including Israeli Arabs, Druze, etc....has its consequences.
> 
> Hatred for the other since the 1st century, has its consequences.
> 
> Hatred for the other.....since the 7th century, has its consequences.
> 
> Christians and Muslims have hated and murdered too many Jews and done anything they thought they had the right to do with the Jews and their land.
> 
> The legal re creation of Israel, in order to defend and protect the Jewish people, is the consequence of all of these centuries of learned hatred.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How would you like for your population to double in 15 years with foreigners?
> 
> The Zionist Colonization of Palestine - Truthdig
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> The Zionist Colonization of Palestine
> 
> 
> For more than a century Zionists and, later, Israelis have pursued a project to seize and ethnically cleanse Palestinian land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.truthdig.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not the product of ancient ethnic hatreds. It is the tragic clash between two peoples with claims to the same land. It is a manufactured conflict, the outcome of...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Revised history designed to destroy Israel, and Jewish sovereignty of what is left of their ancient homeland.
> 
> 78% of the Jewish homeland was GIVEN to the foreign Hashemites in 1922.
> 
> All you read is anti Israel articles.
> Anti Jewish articles.
> 
> "Zionists are indigenous Europeans come to take the land from indigenous Arabs, as if....Arabs were indigenous of Ancient Canaan."
> 
> "The Jewish population were few
> The Jews ethnically cleansed the Arabs from "their" lands"
> 
> 
> Your lack of sense of history comes from romancing Arabs and Islam for most of your life.
> 
> Most, if not all your sources are people who fell in love with Islam and Arabs and their culture.
> 
> Can you introspect for any short time to find out if what I am saying could be true, and therefore your beliefs might be painted by them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you read Zionist Aspirations  in Palestine, Atlantic Magazine July 1920?
> 
> Jews have been rewriting history for thousands of years. What about all those other people who lived in Palestine.. All those Canaanite tribes and Arabs etc? They didn't suddenly disappear?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Apparently you have not, and chose to read only the parts which matter to delegitimizing any Jewish rights to the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Zionism is not any different from the Kurdish movement, The Copts, Berbers, and every other indigenous people who have had their lands invaded by Muslims and saw thousands of Arabs migrants moving into it, util they became the minority.
> 
> Here is part of it:
> 
> "The idea of Judaism is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish people, and the idea of the Jewish people is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish land"
> 
> By H. Sacher
> 
> *THE Zionist movement dates from A.D. 70*, the year of the destruction of the Temple and the Jewish State. The Zionist Organization dates from 1897, the year of the first Zionist Congress. The *Zionist movement is a longing and striving to restore to the Jewish people normal national life. *The Zionist Organization is a particular instrumentality for achieving that end. The Zionist movement will continue until the Jewish people are once more living a normal national life, when it will be transformed into the active expression of that normal national life. The Zionist Organization, when the particular phase of Jewish national life which called into being this special instrumentality has passed, will merge into some other instrumentality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Best example of what you stated below is the near total annihilation of the indigenous Zoroastrians of Persia after the Muslim invasion whereby the native Zoroastrians were forced to convert, leave or be killed.  Hence the majority fled to India as the Parsis.
> 
> Zionism is not any different from the Kurdish movement, The Copts, Berbers, and every other indigenous people who have had their lands invaded by Muslims and saw thousands of Arabs migrants moving into it, until they became the minority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine, Syria and the Levant long before Islam. Remember both Abraham and Moses had Arab wives.. Keturah and Zipporah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would love to see that passage in the Koran, where Mohammad says that Keturah and Zipporah were Arabs, and how Arabs should be proud of that .
> 
> Start reading the Koran
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you  kidding me? Didn't you know they were Arab women?
Click to expand...

I am waiting for you to read the Koran.

How long will it take?  How much time do you have?


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


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> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A publication on education in greater Syria from 1882 showed that there were a total of 3,854 students in school in Jerusalem (2,768 boys and 1,086 girls) and 235 teachers.28 The number of girls in Christian schools (Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, Latin, Greek Catholic, and Armenian) were slightly more than the number of boys (926 girls to 861 boys). While the majority of these students were Christians,
> four of the Evangelical schools (two for boys and two for girls) totaling 138 students exclusively taught Jews. In addition, there were 1,707 students in Jewish schools, 160 of which were girls. In the eight Muslim schools, all of which were for boys, there were 360 students. In 1891, the Government opened a general [secondary] school (Rushdiya) [sic] in our city, where all the children of the city, regardless of their religion, could attend classes in Arabic, Turkish, French, and the basic sciences.29 It was also recorded that a Muslim school for girls had been established.30
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many, many Jews lived in Damascus since before the time of Christ. Not many stayed in Palestine if they could get out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again. The Jews maintained a presence throughout the ages, and it wasn't even called "Palestine" by the Ottomans who controlled the land for the last 600 years before WWI, who were Muslims themselves, they called it Southern Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. It was a province of Syria called Syria-Palestine. Have you read Ibn Battuta or Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela. Jews were a tiny minority. Look at the Quarters of the old city.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The issue has never been about how many Jews were on their ancient homeland.
> 
> The issue has been since 1948 as to whether an invading people like the Europeans in the Americans, Australia,  can ever claim and appropriate themselves of indigenous archeology, culture and history in order to deny the indigenous people their rightful sovereignty over that land.
> 
> That is what the Arabs have been doing to the Jewish people.
> 
> Diminishing the issue to Numbers of population, does nothing but deny the Jewish people their legal right to fight for sovereignty of their own land, and especially as they ended up with ONLY 20% of it, and the invaders continue to demand that 20% for them, in the future leaving the Jews with no land to be sovereign over.
> 
> Whatever your childhood upbringing was, it has been augmented by the Romancing of Arabia, and all that Muslims have achieved at the cost of all indigenous people of the lands they moved into.
> 
> Arabs did not conquer the Middle East, the Kurds did.
> Arabs did not conquer the South of Spain, the Moors did.
> 
> Kurds, Copts, Berbers, Assyrians and others have no right to be sovereign over their ancient lands, anymore than too many tribes in the American and Australian continents.
> 
> Numbers of populations throughout any invasion are meaningless as it does not take away any indigenous people their sovereign right to those lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its against international law to colonized land taken in war. Palestine was NEVER just inhabited by Jews. They are Canaanites just like all the other Canaanites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are changing history.
> 
> Modern Arabs are not Canaanites.
> Palestinians are not Canaanites.
> 
> "Its against international law to colonized land taken in war."
> 
> Tell that to the Muslims and Arabs and Turks, who have been warring against the indigenous people of the Middle East and North Africa, and colonizing each and every part of it, at the cost of indigenous rights.
> 
> When Arab states invade a legally formed state only because it is Jewish, the Jewish people have every right to defend themselves.
> 
> Unfortunately the Muslim and Christian population which follows the Muslim leaders with their lies, are the ones who continue to pay the price in not having a State of their own, something they could have had in 1936, 1947 and 2000.
> 
> Actions have consequences.
> 
> Teaching hateful things about an indigenous people because they are Jewish has consequences.
> 
> Again and again, attacking not only the Jewish country but the people who live in it, including Israeli Arabs, Druze, etc....has its consequences.
> 
> Hatred for the other since the 1st century, has its consequences.
> 
> Hatred for the other.....since the 7th century, has its consequences.
> 
> Christians and Muslims have hated and murdered too many Jews and done anything they thought they had the right to do with the Jews and their land.
> 
> The legal re creation of Israel, in order to defend and protect the Jewish people, is the consequence of all of these centuries of learned hatred.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How would you like for your population to double in 15 years with foreigners?
> 
> The Zionist Colonization of Palestine - Truthdig
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionist Colonization of Palestine
> 
> 
> For more than a century Zionists and, later, Israelis have pursued a project to seize and ethnically cleanse Palestinian land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.truthdig.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not the product of ancient ethnic hatreds. It is the tragic clash between two peoples with claims to the same land. It is a manufactured conflict, the outcome of...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Revised history designed to destroy Israel, and Jewish sovereignty of what is left of their ancient homeland.
> 
> 78% of the Jewish homeland was GIVEN to the foreign Hashemites in 1922.
> 
> All you read is anti Israel articles.
> Anti Jewish articles.
> 
> "Zionists are indigenous Europeans come to take the land from indigenous Arabs, as if....Arabs were indigenous of Ancient Canaan."
> 
> "The Jewish population were few
> The Jews ethnically cleansed the Arabs from "their" lands"
> 
> 
> Your lack of sense of history comes from romancing Arabs and Islam for most of your life.
> 
> Most, if not all your sources are people who fell in love with Islam and Arabs and their culture.
> 
> Can you introspect for any short time to find out if what I am saying could be true, and therefore your beliefs might be painted by them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you read Zionist Aspirations  in Palestine, Atlantic Magazine July 1920?
> 
> Jews have been rewriting history for thousands of years. What about all those other people who lived in Palestine.. All those Canaanite tribes and Arabs etc? They didn't suddenly disappear?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Apparently you have not, and chose to read only the parts which matter to delegitimizing any Jewish rights to the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Zionism is not any different from the Kurdish movement, The Copts, Berbers, and every other indigenous people who have had their lands invaded by Muslims and saw thousands of Arabs migrants moving into it, util they became the minority.
> 
> Here is part of it:
> 
> "The idea of Judaism is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish people, and the idea of the Jewish people is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish land"
> 
> By H. Sacher
> 
> *THE Zionist movement dates from A.D. 70*, the year of the destruction of the Temple and the Jewish State. The Zionist Organization dates from 1897, the year of the first Zionist Congress. The *Zionist movement is a longing and striving to restore to the Jewish people normal national life. *The Zionist Organization is a particular instrumentality for achieving that end. The Zionist movement will continue until the Jewish people are once more living a normal national life, when it will be transformed into the active expression of that normal national life. The Zionist Organization, when the particular phase of Jewish national life which called into being this special instrumentality has passed, will merge into some other instrumentality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Best example of what you stated below is the near total annihilation of the indigenous Zoroastrians of Persia after the Muslim invasion whereby the native Zoroastrians were forced to convert, leave or be killed.  Hence the majority fled to India as the Parsis.
> 
> Zionism is not any different from the Kurdish movement, The Copts, Berbers, and every other indigenous people who have had their lands invaded by Muslims and saw thousands of Arabs migrants moving into it, until they became the minority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine, Syria and the Levant long before Islam. Remember both Abraham and Moses had Arab wives.. Keturah and Zipporah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would love to see that passage in the Koran, where Mohammad says that Keturah and Zipporah were Arabs, and how Arabs should be proud of that .
> 
> Start reading the Koran
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you  kidding me? Didn't you know they were Arab women?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am waiting for you to read the Koran.
> 
> How long will it take?  How much time do you have?
Click to expand...


I have read the Koran and I was lucky to have a Muslim judge help me..

In 1945 the Arabs told Roosevelt that he should give the best land in Germany to the Holocaust survivors.


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nation in Congo, or Uganda, and Australia, where none of those places IS the Jewish homeland, and the Jews would have indeed been taking over another indigenous people's land.
> 
> 
> 
> _Is the land of “Israel” their true ancient homeland?
> 
> *Promised Land*
> 
> “Moses went up Mount Nebo to the top of Pisgah, looked over the *promised land of Israel* spread out before him, and died, at the age of one hundred and twenty, according to Talmudic legend on 7 Adar, his 120th birthday exactly. _
> 
> _Moab is the historical name for a mountainous strip of land in modern-day _*Jordan* _running along the eastern shore of the _*Dead Sea**.  *_In ancient times, it was home to the kingdom of the Moabites, a people often in conflict with their Israelite neighbors to the west._
> 
> _The Moabites were a historical people, whose existence is attested to by numerous archeological findings, most notably the __Mesha Stele__, which describes the Moabite victory over an unnamed son of __King_ _Omri__ of __Israel__. Their capital was _*Dibon**, *_located next to the modern Jordanian town of _*Dhiban**.*_”_
> _http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Moab_
> 
> From there they moved to Egypt
> (Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:
> (Gen 45:20 KJV) Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.
> (Gen 45:21 KJV) *And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.*
> (Gen 47:1 KJV) *Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.*
> (Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.
> 
> Based on the above the* “Promised Land” *is not the land the Jews are occupying today. In biblical verse terms the Jews were nomads who were wonderers living off of the land grazing their sheep on the open plains.
> -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I find it beyond humorous, that many people who have lost the identity their ancestors had, or of a separate people, with a separate culture and history, go around forums and other places, on tv and media, telling the Jewish people that they do not know their ancient history, they are not descended from those ancient people, etc......
> 
> Exactly because they have so embraced the new culture which was basically shoved down their ancestor's throat, be they Christians or Muslims, Hindus, Buddists, even Jews.........they can only continue to embrace the hatred created by Christianity and Islam as an excuse to anything and everything which goes wrong in this world....
> 
> AS IF......things going bad, nature, humans, animals, plagues, etc......all came to be when the Judaism came to be.
> 
> It is a very sad illness, toxic to the core, and cannot be eradicated because those who practice a "solution" to all of those maladies would find themselves to be the fools...... for once all the Jews are gone, dead or converted, those problems and worse would continue to exist.
> 
> Then......they will start hunting for those who "were Jews " before and accuse them of not having left it and not being true.  Yes, the Inquisition all over again.
> 
> 
> The Right to Destroy Jewish History has never been worse at its believer's core than during and after the Holocaust.
> 
> Jews are not humans.  Do NOT care about their history, the history also found in the writings of every people they dealt with, and every invader, conqueror, who to this day have not changed their history books to wipe out the Jews as a people.
> 
> NT and Koran have not wiped the Jewish people out.
> 
> But today Christians  and Muslims want to do exactly that.
> 
> Am Israel Chai
> The People of Israel Live
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you make these claims to justify taking ancestral lands from everybody else?? Nobody wants to wipe out the Jews. What a vile accusation. Even the Torah tells you these are your half brothers and cousins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Ancestral lands became Israel 3000 years ago.  And then others came and took from that.  One only has to read history written by the Greeks, Romans, Byzantine, etc
> 
> But the Jews are the only who remain with a non stop history on the land.  All the others blended with the other populations, or moved away.
> 
> 
> I am sorry that you still do not get what the Holocaust in Europe was about. Aided by the Husseini clan who planned on building Concentration Camps in Palestine once Germany won the war, which it did not.
> 
> 
> Keep believing that Husseini did not want to wipe out the Jews, as the Nazis did, as he himself did in Bosnia during WWII.
> 
> What in the world would those Concentration Camps have been for?
> 
> Our Half Brothers and Cousins have committed incredible crimes against the Jewish people for
> the past 2000 years.  Have negated the Jewish people any form of respect.  And continue to do so.
> 
> Which is exactly why Hagar and Ishmael were thrown out of Abraham's home.
> 
> You, and others, want the People of Abraham to embrace those who call themselves descendants of Ishmael, while this very people continue to look for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people as a free people.
> 
> Not even Ishmael had the audacity to attack Abraham and his tribe as revenge or feeling of superiority.
Click to expand...


So now you blame the Mufti for the Holocaust. How much land do you justify stealing with that bit of chicanery?

You forget that Abraham has six sons with Keturah who was a Midianite Arab. Is your education really so poor or is this deliberate?


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## rylah

surada said:


> Its against international law to colonized land taken in war. Palestine was NEVER just inhabited by Jews. They are Canaanites just like all the other Canaanites.



*Ok if you say so...




*


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## rylah

surada said:


> How would you like for your population to double in 15 years with foreigners?



Indeed...


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## rylah

watchingfromafar said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nation in Congo, or Uganda, and Australia, where none of those places IS the Jewish homeland, and the Jews would have indeed been taking over another indigenous people's land.
> 
> 
> 
> _Is the land of “Israel” their true ancient homeland?
> 
> *Promised Land*
> 
> “Moses went up Mount Nebo to the top of Pisgah, looked over the *promised land of Israel* spread out before him, and died, at the age of one hundred and twenty, according to Talmudic legend on 7 Adar, his 120th birthday exactly. _
> 
> _Moab is the historical name for a mountainous strip of land in modern-day _*Jordan* _running along the eastern shore of the _*Dead Sea**.  *_In ancient times, it was home to the kingdom of the Moabites, a people often in conflict with their Israelite neighbors to the west._
> 
> _The Moabites were a historical people, whose existence is attested to by numerous archeological findings, most notably the __Mesha Stele__, which describes the Moabite victory over an unnamed son of __King_ _Omri__ of __Israel__. Their capital was _*Dibon**, *_located next to the modern Jordanian town of _*Dhiban**.*_”_
> _http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Moab_
> 
> From there they moved to Egypt
> (Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:
> (Gen 45:20 KJV) Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.
> (Gen 45:21 KJV) *And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.*
> (Gen 47:1 KJV) *Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.*
> (Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.
> 
> Based on the above the* “Promised Land” *is not the land the Jews are occupying today. In biblical verse terms the Jews were nomads who were wonderers living off of the land grazing their sheep on the open plains.
> -
Click to expand...


O' Hmar ibn-majnouny, thank you for showing us the way,

let us follow your example to its logic conclusion:

_For I was stolen from* the land of the Hebrews*, and here too, I have done nothing, for which they have put me into the dungeon."_
_Ber. 40:15_​


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## Sixties Fan

So the British punished them by sending them to Hamburg, Germany. There, the British authorities compelled the passengers to disembark, and some were forcibly removed from the ship by clubbing them. The British then took the 4,500+ passengers, many of whom were refugees from concentration camps, and transferred to displaced person camps in Germany. The country from which they just escaped.








Seventy-four years ago, the British appeased the Arabs, denied Jews entry into the Holy Land, and sent them back to the Germany from which they had just escaped— to be guarded by Germans.



Today Great Britain and their European allies are still appeasing radical Islamists, their terrorism, their call for the destruction of the Jewish State, and the anti-Semitic hatred they teach their children. In 1947 the British physically attacked the Jews. Today they attack the Jews and Jewish history with their cowardly abstentions from U.N. votes.


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## The Sage of Main Street

Sixties Fan said:


> ( I will jump a lot here)
> 
> Many public men in Great Britain were deeply interested in these efforts to restore the Jewish people to the Jewish land. Lord Shaftesbury was the foremost of them. 'The inherent vitality,' he wrote, 'of the Hebrew race reasserts itself with amazing persistence. Its genius, to tell the truth, adapts itself more or less to all the currents of civilization all over the world, nevertheless always emerging with distinctive features and a gallant recovery of vigor. There is unbroken identity of Jewish race and Jewish mind down to our times; but the great revival can take place only in the Holy Land.' He believed that the hour had struck for the Jewish restoration, and he labored to persuade English statesmen to take up the holy task. Another distinguished Englishman of those days who was penetrated with the same conviction was Colonel Churchill, the British Resident at Damascus, who urged upon the Jews the return to Palestine as the solution of the Eastern question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Jewish Palestine
> 
> 
> "The idea of Judaism is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish people, and the idea of the Jewish people is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish land"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theatlantic.com


*What We Turn Loose Will Make Us Lose*

And the Arabs are the complete opposite:  a mindless and violent Neanderthalic species.  So there's no point in debating which one is indigenous to the area.  It begs the question by assuming that they are equal in usefulness to the rest of us.  Unequal people don't have equal rights.


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## watchingfromafar

The Sage of Main Street said:


> And the Arabs are the complete opposite: a mindless and violent Neanderthalic species. So there's no point in debating which one is indigenous to the area.


Your genetic linage may very well have some *Neanderthalic traits*


The Sage of Main Street said:


> It begs the question by assuming that they are equal in usefulness to the rest of us. Unequal people don't have equal rights.


The south, based its foundation on the above principles *LOST*
never to return again, vanished, puff of nothingness
Such is history -


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## Roudy

surada said:


> Roudy said:
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> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
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> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> A publication on education in greater Syria from 1882 showed that there were a total of 3,854 students in school in Jerusalem (2,768 boys and 1,086 girls) and 235 teachers.28 The number of girls in Christian schools (Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, Latin, Greek Catholic, and Armenian) were slightly more than the number of boys (926 girls to 861 boys). While the majority of these students were Christians,
> four of the Evangelical schools (two for boys and two for girls) totaling 138 students exclusively taught Jews. In addition, there were 1,707 students in Jewish schools, 160 of which were girls. In the eight Muslim schools, all of which were for boys, there were 360 students. In 1891, the Government opened a general [secondary] school (Rushdiya) [sic] in our city, where all the children of the city, regardless of their religion, could attend classes in Arabic, Turkish, French, and the basic sciences.29 It was also recorded that a Muslim school for girls had been established.30
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many, many Jews lived in Damascus since before the time of Christ. Not many stayed in Palestine if they could get out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again. The Jews maintained a presence throughout the ages, and it wasn't even called "Palestine" by the Ottomans who controlled the land for the last 600 years before WWI, who were Muslims themselves, they called it Southern Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. It was a province of Syria called Syria-Palestine. Have you read Ibn Battuta or Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela. Jews were a tiny minority. Look at the Quarters of the old city.
Click to expand...

So there was no such thing as Palestine or a Palestinian, as per the Ottoma Muslims, who controlled the land for 600 years prior to WWI.  Jews were a minority because they were invaded, as opposed to Arab Muslims, who invaded, looted, pillaged land after land throughout history.


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## Roudy

watchingfromafar said:


> Roudy said:
> 
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> 
> Of course they don't want to mention that so called "Palestinian" terrorist animals are known to intentionally attack and kill Jewish kids and infants in all kinds of settings such as nurseries and schools.
> 
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> you are lying but that is not new for the likes of you
> -
Click to expand...

Palestinian terrorists have not blown up restaurants, Jewish nurseries, stabbed little kids asleep in bed, targeting and stabbed old people, attacked synagogues and other religious places of worship, etc., while using their own schools, hospitals and mosques and rocket launch and storage sites?  Exactly what planet do you live on.  Those are undisputed facts.


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## Roudy

watchingfromafar said:


> Sixties Fan said:
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> 
> 
> Nation in Congo, or Uganda, and Australia, where none of those places IS the Jewish homeland, and the Jews would have indeed been taking over another indigenous people's land.
> 
> 
> 
> _Is the land of “Israel” their true ancient homeland?
> 
> *Promised Land*
> 
> “Moses went up Mount Nebo to the top of Pisgah, looked over the *promised land of Israel* spread out before him, and died, at the age of one hundred and twenty, according to Talmudic legend on 7 Adar, his 120th birthday exactly. _
> 
> _Moab is the historical name for a mountainous strip of land in modern-day _*Jordan* _running along the eastern shore of the _*Dead Sea**.  *_In ancient times, it was home to the kingdom of the Moabites, a people often in conflict with their Israelite neighbors to the west._
> 
> _The Moabites were a historical people, whose existence is attested to by numerous archeological findings, most notably the __Mesha Stele__, which describes the Moabite victory over an unnamed son of __King_ _Omri__ of __Israel__. Their capital was _*Dibon**, *_located next to the modern Jordanian town of _*Dhiban**.*_”_
> _http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Moab_
> 
> From there they moved to Egypt
> (Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:
> (Gen 45:20 KJV) Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.
> (Gen 45:21 KJV) *And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.*
> (Gen 47:1 KJV) *Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.*
> (Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.
> 
> Based on the above the* “Promised Land” *is not the land the Jews are occupying today. In biblical verse terms the Jews were nomads who were wonderers living off of the land grazing their sheep on the open plains.
> -
Click to expand...

So all those archeological sites and artifacts going back thousands of years showing Hebrew writing, currency, etc. showing life in ancient Juideah and Samaria has nothing to do with the promised land of Israel and the existence of Jews in the land.  

This must be antisemitic comedy hour..


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## Roudy

surada said:


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> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A publication on education in greater Syria from 1882 showed that there were a total of 3,854 students in school in Jerusalem (2,768 boys and 1,086 girls) and 235 teachers.28 The number of girls in Christian schools (Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, Latin, Greek Catholic, and Armenian) were slightly more than the number of boys (926 girls to 861 boys). While the majority of these students were Christians,
> four of the Evangelical schools (two for boys and two for girls) totaling 138 students exclusively taught Jews. In addition, there were 1,707 students in Jewish schools, 160 of which were girls. In the eight Muslim schools, all of which were for boys, there were 360 students. In 1891, the Government opened a general [secondary] school (Rushdiya) [sic] in our city, where all the children of the city, regardless of their religion, could attend classes in Arabic, Turkish, French, and the basic sciences.29 It was also recorded that a Muslim school for girls had been established.30
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many, many Jews lived in Damascus since before the time of Christ. Not many stayed in Palestine if they could get out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again. The Jews maintained a presence throughout the ages, and it wasn't even called "Palestine" by the Ottomans who controlled the land for the last 600 years before WWI, who were Muslims themselves, they called it Southern Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. It was a province of Syria called Syria-Palestine. Have you read Ibn Battuta or Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela. Jews were a tiny minority. Look at the Quarters of the old city.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The issue has never been about how many Jews were on their ancient homeland.
> 
> The issue has been since 1948 as to whether an invading people like the Europeans in the Americans, Australia,  can ever claim and appropriate themselves of indigenous archeology, culture and history in order to deny the indigenous people their rightful sovereignty over that land.
> 
> That is what the Arabs have been doing to the Jewish people.
> 
> Diminishing the issue to Numbers of population, does nothing but deny the Jewish people their legal right to fight for sovereignty of their own land, and especially as they ended up with ONLY 20% of it, and the invaders continue to demand that 20% for them, in the future leaving the Jews with no land to be sovereign over.
> 
> Whatever your childhood upbringing was, it has been augmented by the Romancing of Arabia, and all that Muslims have achieved at the cost of all indigenous people of the lands they moved into.
> 
> Arabs did not conquer the Middle East, the Kurds did.
> Arabs did not conquer the South of Spain, the Moors did.
> 
> Kurds, Copts, Berbers, Assyrians and others have no right to be sovereign over their ancient lands, anymore than too many tribes in the American and Australian continents.
> 
> Numbers of populations throughout any invasion are meaningless as it does not take away any indigenous people their sovereign right to those lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its against international law to colonized land taken in war. Palestine was NEVER just inhabited by Jews. They are Canaanites just like all the other Canaanites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are changing history.
> 
> Modern Arabs are not Canaanites.
> Palestinians are not Canaanites.
> 
> "Its against international law to colonized land taken in war."
> 
> Tell that to the Muslims and Arabs and Turks, who have been warring against the indigenous people of the Middle East and North Africa, and colonizing each and every part of it, at the cost of indigenous rights.
> 
> When Arab states invade a legally formed state only because it is Jewish, the Jewish people have every right to defend themselves.
> 
> Unfortunately the Muslim and Christian population which follows the Muslim leaders with their lies, are the ones who continue to pay the price in not having a State of their own, something they could have had in 1936, 1947 and 2000.
> 
> Actions have consequences.
> 
> Teaching hateful things about an indigenous people because they are Jewish has consequences.
> 
> Again and again, attacking not only the Jewish country but the people who live in it, including Israeli Arabs, Druze, etc....has its consequences.
> 
> Hatred for the other since the 1st century, has its consequences.
> 
> Hatred for the other.....since the 7th century, has its consequences.
> 
> Christians and Muslims have hated and murdered too many Jews and done anything they thought they had the right to do with the Jews and their land.
> 
> The legal re creation of Israel, in order to defend and protect the Jewish people, is the consequence of all of these centuries of learned hatred.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How would you like for your population to double in 15 years with foreigners?
> 
> The Zionist Colonization of Palestine - Truthdig
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> The Zionist Colonization of Palestine
> 
> 
> For more than a century Zionists and, later, Israelis have pursued a project to seize and ethnically cleanse Palestinian land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.truthdig.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not the product of ancient ethnic hatreds. It is the tragic clash between two peoples with claims to the same land. It is a manufactured conflict, the outcome of...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Revised history designed to destroy Israel, and Jewish sovereignty of what is left of their ancient homeland.
> 
> 78% of the Jewish homeland was GIVEN to the foreign Hashemites in 1922.
> 
> All you read is anti Israel articles.
> Anti Jewish articles.
> 
> "Zionists are indigenous Europeans come to take the land from indigenous Arabs, as if....Arabs were indigenous of Ancient Canaan."
> 
> "The Jewish population were few
> The Jews ethnically cleansed the Arabs from "their" lands"
> 
> 
> Your lack of sense of history comes from romancing Arabs and Islam for most of your life.
> 
> Most, if not all your sources are people who fell in love with Islam and Arabs and their culture.
> 
> Can you introspect for any short time to find out if what I am saying could be true, and therefore your beliefs might be painted by them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you read Zionist Aspirations  in Palestine, Atlantic Magazine July 1920?
> 
> Jews have been rewriting history for thousands of years. What about all those other people who lived in Palestine.. All those Canaanite tribes and Arabs etc? They didn't suddenly disappear?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Apparently you have not, and chose to read only the parts which matter to delegitimizing any Jewish rights to the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Zionism is not any different from the Kurdish movement, The Copts, Berbers, and every other indigenous people who have had their lands invaded by Muslims and saw thousands of Arabs migrants moving into it, util they became the minority.
> 
> Here is part of it:
> 
> "The idea of Judaism is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish people, and the idea of the Jewish people is inseparable from the idea of the Jewish land"
> 
> By H. Sacher
> 
> *THE Zionist movement dates from A.D. 70*, the year of the destruction of the Temple and the Jewish State. The Zionist Organization dates from 1897, the year of the first Zionist Congress. The *Zionist movement is a longing and striving to restore to the Jewish people normal national life. *The Zionist Organization is a particular instrumentality for achieving that end. The Zionist movement will continue until the Jewish people are once more living a normal national life, when it will be transformed into the active expression of that normal national life. The Zionist Organization, when the particular phase of Jewish national life which called into being this special instrumentality has passed, will merge into some other instrumentality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Best example of what you stated below is the near total annihilation of the indigenous Zoroastrians of Persia after the Muslim invasion whereby the native Zoroastrians were forced to convert, leave or be killed.  Hence the majority fled to India as the Parsis.
> 
> Zionism is not any different from the Kurdish movement, The Copts, Berbers, and every other indigenous people who have had their lands invaded by Muslims and saw thousands of Arabs migrants moving into it, until they became the minority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs were in Palestine, Syria and the Levant long before Islam. Remember both Abraham and Moses had Arab wives.. Keturah and Zipporah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would love to see that passage in the Koran, where Mohammad says that Keturah and Zipporah were Arabs, and how Arabs should be proud of that .
> 
> Start reading the Koran
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you  kidding me? Didn't you know they were Arab women?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am waiting for you to read the Koran.
> 
> How long will it take?  How much time do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have read the Koran and I was lucky to have a Muslim judge help me..
> 
> In 1945 the Arabs told Roosevelt that he should give the best land in Germany to the Holocaust survivors.
Click to expand...

How nice of the Arabs.


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## Indeependent

Roudy said:


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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Roudy said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> surada said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Roudy said:
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> There was no such thing as a Palestine or Palestinian people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat invented them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just ignorant. Arafat didn't show up on the scene until the 1960s. Some Palestinians went to my Church in the 1950s and one of our houseboys was Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.. Theft and murder is acceptable to you as long as the European refugees get more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the middle eastern refugees that comprise most of Israel's current population who were stripped of their belongings and told to "go back to where you came from" by the Arabs?
> 
> In true IslamoNazi form, apparently think there aren't enough Arab / Muslim countries  and they don't have enough land they invaded and cinquered compared to the less than 1% of land that Israel sits on, which happens to be the religious, cultural and ancestral homeland of the Jews to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.. There have always been more Arabs..
> 
> What  sort of immigrants do you want to take over YOUR ancestral home at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So let's give the one land that is Jewish and make it Arab / Muslim failed terrorist state number 40 just because you hate the Jews and infidels as much as they do.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People of the Book are not infidels. People who worship the God of Abraham are not infidels. Your problem is ignorance and a desire to justify erasing the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam considers all non Muslims to be infidels.  That is a fact.
> 
> No one is trying to erase the Palestinians.  All that we are saying is that these Arabs, who have only called themselves Palestinians since 1963-64, would never have called themselves this identity if it had not been for the Mandate for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation on the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> The Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, which you did not say anything about, clearly only has Palestinian History going back to 1920, denoting that they are a new identity, nationality, a people who would have continued to be called Arab, or the clan each came from, to this day.
> 
> The Balfour Declaration happened.   The Mandate for Palestine happened.  The defeat of the Arab armies in 1948, 1967 and 1973 happened.
> 
> 
> Do note, again, that today's Palestinians and their Palestinian Museum cannot connect at all......today's Arabs to the Arabs from 10,000 years ago, or from the time of Abraham, or even the time of the Romans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.. islam doesn't consider Jews, Christians infidels. They are people of the book.
> 
> They were called Palestinians in 1950.. The refugee camps in Lebanon were Palestinian. I know. I visted them as a little girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both articles contradict your belief:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NU calls for end to word 'infidels' to describe non-Muslims
> 
> 
> As an alternative, Moqsith and other clerics agreed to use the word muwathinun (citizen), to demonstrate that Muslims and non-Muslims have equal status as citizens in a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejakartapost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world’s largest Islamic group wants Muslims to stop saying 'infidel'
> 
> 
> The timing of this anti-kafir push is hardly accidental. Indonesia's conservative Muslim clerics are gaining influence through social media with hard-line messages. Nahdlatul Ulama, or NU, with more than 90 million followers, wants to disseminate the “message of Islam as a source of universal love.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> They were called Palestinians only after the Mandate for Palestine.
> ALL inhabitants in the Mandate for Palestine from 1920 on, were called Palestinians.  Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, Druze, Greeks, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See the Ottoman Census of 1870.. or you can read the Palestinian documents at the Avalon Project, Yale. Its just the documents not commentary. Jews were a tiny minority compared to Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Or, you can go back further and read Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela.
> 
> By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine. There were large Jewish communities in Baghdad, Damascus, Allepo, Alexandria, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Med Sea. Palestine was pretty harsh, stony, arid and hardscrabble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ottoman's had the Jews as a majority in Jerusalem during the same time period.  Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.. The Muslims Quarter in Jerusalem was the largest for 1300 years.
> 
> Most of Palestine's population, estimated to be around 200,000 in the early years of Ottoman rule, lived in villages. The largest cities were Gaza, Safad and Jerusalem, each with a population of around 5,000–6,000. Ottoman property administration consisted of a system of fiefs called timar and trusts called waqf.
> History of Palestine - Wikipedia
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. Jews always maintained a presence throughout the millenia and in fact consisted of a majority in Jerusalem during the Ottoman era, since they invited the Jews suffering from persecution due to the crusaders and inquisitors to resettle back to what the Ottoman's clearly considered their homeland.  Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter has always been the largest in Jerusalem.
> 
> Its pointless to try and erase the Arabs from Palestine.  Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there evidence that those tribes remained in Samaria?  Could they have moved anywhere else?
> Which tribes were they?  Do they still identify themselves as being descendants from those tribes.
> 
> No one is trying to erase any Arab presence in the history of Canaan, as much as you keep repeating that sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already posted the names of the 4 tribes for you yesterday. The Jerusalemites despised the Samarians... considered them half breeds and bad Jews.. You should know that.
> 
> The evidence that Arabs have been in Palestine since the time of Abraham is overwhelming. .. just like Jews originating in Urfa near Haran, Do some homework and read up on the Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. I have posted links for you several times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the "evidence" of Arab presence, Arabs are invaders that's how Islam was spread.
> 
> 
> 
> https://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemites55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.58
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A publication on education in greater Syria from 1882 showed that there were a total of 3,854 students in school in Jerusalem (2,768 boys and 1,086 girls) and 235 teachers.28 The number of girls in Christian schools (Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, Latin, Greek Catholic, and Armenian) were slightly more than the number of boys (926 girls to 861 boys). While the majority of these students were Christians,
> four of the Evangelical schools (two for boys and two for girls) totaling 138 students exclusively taught Jews. In addition, there were 1,707 students in Jewish schools, 160 of which were girls. In the eight Muslim schools, all of which were for boys, there were 360 students. In 1891, the Government opened a general [secondary] school (Rushdiya) [sic] in our city, where all the children of the city, regardless of their religion, could attend classes in Arabic, Turkish, French, and the basic sciences.29 It was also recorded that a Muslim school for girls had been established.30
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many, many Jews lived in Damascus since before the time of Christ. Not many stayed in Palestine if they could get out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again. The Jews maintained a presence throughout the ages, and it wasn't even called "Palestine" by the Ottomans who controlled the land for the last 600 years before WWI, who were Muslims themselves, they called it Southern Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. It was a province of Syria called Syria-Palestine. Have you read Ibn Battuta or Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela. Jews were a tiny minority. Look at the Quarters of the old city.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So there was no such thing as Palestine or a Palestinian, as per the Ottoma Muslims, who controlled the land for 600 years prior to WWI.  Jews were a minority because they were invaded, as opposed to Arab Muslims, who invaded, looted, pillaged land after land throughout history.
Click to expand...

We all know WFA is psychotic.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> So the British punished them by sending them to Hamburg, Germany. There, the British authorities compelled the passengers to disembark, and some were forcibly removed from the ship by clubbing them. The British then took the 4,500+ passengers, many of whom were refugees from concentration camps, and transferred to displaced person camps in Germany. The country from which they just escaped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seventy-four years ago, the British appeased the Arabs, denied Jews entry into the Holy Land, and sent them back to the Germany from which they had just escaped— to be guarded by Germans.
> 
> 
> 
> Today Great Britain and their European allies are still appeasing radical Islamists, their terrorism, their call for the destruction of the Jewish State, and the anti-Semitic hatred they teach their children. In 1947 the British physically attacked the Jews. Today they attack the Jews and Jewish history with their cowardly abstentions from U.N. votes.



The European Jews sought sanctuary in Palestine and immediately began to abuse the Palestinians.


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## Sixties Fan

Indeed, the Khazarian hypothesis has been debunked by virtually every field of science. For instance, historians stress that the kingdom most likely never converted to Judaism. Archaeologists excavating in the former Khazar lands have found almost no artifacts displaying Jewish symbols. Moreover, linguists point out that Yiddish — for centuries the language spoken by Eastern European Jews — is in no way similar to the vernacular used in Khazaria, nor do Jewish surnames from the last 600 years contain any link to the kingdom.

Experts in Jewish genetics have lambasted Elhaik’s “findings,” arguing that he “appears to be applying the statistics in a way that gives him different results from what everybody else has obtained from essentially similar data.” In fact, most DNA research proves precisely the opposite: namely, that European Jews _are_ closely related to Middle Eastern populations.

The anti-Zionist argument is flawed for another major reason: that is, most Jewish Israelis are not of European descent. According to Tel Aviv University research, in 2018 only 31.8 percent of Israeli Jews self-identified as Ashkenazi (Eastern European). A significantly larger share, about 45 percent, identified as Mizrahi – an umbrella term for those Jews that fled Arab countries to nascent Israel. Israelis of Yemeni origin, for example, trace their roots in the region back to biblical times.

The fact that millions of Israeli Mizrahim are indigenous to the Middle East is indisputable.

(full article online)









						'Junk Science': Ashkenazi Jews Are Not Descendants of Khazar Converts | Honest Reporting
					

The hypothesis has been debunked by virtually every field of science. The Khazar kingdom most likely never converted to Judaism.




					honestreporting.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Submarginal as these conditions were, they were immeasurably better than those of Muslim Arabs elsewhere in the Middle East. The statistics of Arab population growth were revealing: In Palestine, the increase between 1922 and 1946 was 118 percent, a rate of almost 5 percent annually, and the highest in the Arab world except for Egypt. It was not all natural increase. During those 24 years, approximately 100,000 Arabs entered the country from neighboring lands. The influx could be traced in some measure to the orderly government provided by the British, but far more, certainly, to the economic opportunities made possible by Jewish settlement.

*The rise of the Yishuv benefited Arab life indirectly, by disproportionate Jewish contributions to government revenues, and thereby to increased mandatory expenditures in the Arab sector; and directly, by new markets for Arab produce and (until the civil war of 1936) employment opportunities for Arab labor.* It was significant, for example, that the movement of Arabs within Palestine itself was largely to regions of Jewish concentration. Thus, Arab population increase during the 1930s was 87 percent in Haifa, 61 percent in Jaffa, 37 percent in Jerusalem. A similar growth was registered in Arab towns located near Jewish agricultural villages. *The 25 percent rise of Arab participation in industry could be traced exclusively to the needs of the large Jewish immigration.*

Under the Turks, Arab political life had been rudimentary and had consisted largely of maneuvers for civil office among rival _effendi_ families [“effendi” is a Turkish title of respect, used most commonly for government officials or members of the aristocracy]. No organized nationalist movement whatever came into being until after the Armistice, when Muslim‑Christian Associations were founded in various Arab towns to protest the impending Jewish National Home. This opposition, too, was at first essentially a projection of Syrian nationalism. It followed the lead of Arab politicians in Damascus during the unsuccessful 1919‑1920 effort to establish an independent Syrian kingdom.

(full article online)









						Who Are The Palestinians? | My Jewish Learning
					

Who are the Palestinians. Israeli Palestinian Relations. Contemporary Israel. The Jewish State. Jewish History and Community.




					www.myjewishlearning.com


----------



## MJB12741

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nation in Congo, or Uganda, and Australia, where none of those places IS the Jewish homeland, and the Jews would have indeed been taking over another indigenous people's land.
> 
> 
> 
> _Is the land of “Israel” their true ancient homeland?
> 
> *Promised Land*
> 
> “Moses went up Mount Nebo to the top of Pisgah, looked over the *promised land of Israel* spread out before him, and died, at the age of one hundred and twenty, according to Talmudic legend on 7 Adar, his 120th birthday exactly. _
> 
> _Moab is the historical name for a mountainous strip of land in modern-day _*Jordan* _running along the eastern shore of the _*Dead Sea**.  *_In ancient times, it was home to the kingdom of the Moabites, a people often in conflict with their Israelite neighbors to the west._
> 
> _The Moabites were a historical people, whose existence is attested to by numerous archeological findings, most notably the __Mesha Stele__, which describes the Moabite victory over an unnamed son of __King_ _Omri__ of __Israel__. Their capital was _*Dibon**, *_located next to the modern Jordanian town of _*Dhiban**.*_”_
> _http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Moab_
> 
> From there they moved to Egypt
> (Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:
> (Gen 45:20 KJV) Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.
> (Gen 45:21 KJV) *And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.*
> (Gen 47:1 KJV) *Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.*
> (Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.
> 
> Based on the above the* “Promised Land” *is not the land the Jews are occupying today. In biblical verse terms the Jews were nomads who were wonderers living off of the land grazing their sheep on the open plains.
> -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I find it beyond humorous, that many people who have lost the identity their ancestors had, or of a separate people, with a separate culture and history, go around forums and other places, on tv and media, telling the Jewish people that they do not know their ancient history, they are not descended from those ancient people, etc......
> 
> Exactly because they have so embraced the new culture which was basically shoved down their ancestor's throat, be they Christians or Muslims, Hindus, Buddists, even Jews.........they can only continue to embrace the hatred created by Christianity and Islam as an excuse to anything and everything which goes wrong in this world....
> 
> AS IF......things going bad, nature, humans, animals, plagues, etc......all came to be when the Judaism came to be.
> 
> It is a very sad illness, toxic to the core, and cannot be eradicated because those who practice a "solution" to all of those maladies would find themselves to be the fools...... for once all the Jews are gone, dead or converted, those problems and worse would continue to exist.
> 
> Then......they will start hunting for those who "were Jews " before and accuse them of not having left it and not being true.  Yes, the Inquisition all over again.
> 
> 
> The Right to Destroy Jewish History has never been worse at its believer's core than during and after the Holocaust.
> 
> Jews are not humans.  Do NOT care about their history, the history also found in the writings of every people they dealt with, and every invader, conqueror, who to this day have not changed their history books to wipe out the Jews as a people.
> 
> NT and Koran have not wiped the Jewish people out.
> 
> But today Christians  and Muslims want to do exactly that.
> 
> Am Israel Chai
> The People of Israel Live
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you make these claims to justify taking ancestral lands from everybody else?? Nobody wants to wipe out the Jews. What a vile accusation. Even the Torah tells you these are your half brothers and cousins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Ancestral lands became Israel 3000 years ago.  And then others came and took from that.  One only has to read history written by the Greeks, Romans, Byzantine, etc
> 
> But the Jews are the only who remain with a non stop history on the land.  All the others blended with the other populations, or moved away.
> 
> 
> I am sorry that you still do not get what the Holocaust in Europe was about. Aided by the Husseini clan who planned on building Concentration Camps in Palestine once Germany won the war, which it did not.
> 
> 
> Keep believing that Husseini did not want to wipe out the Jews, as the Nazis did, as he himself did in Bosnia during WWII.
> 
> What in the world would those Concentration Camps have been for?
> 
> Our Half Brothers and Cousins have committed incredible crimes against the Jewish people for
> the past 2000 years.  Have negated the Jewish people any form of respect.  And continue to do so.
> 
> Which is exactly why Hagar and Ishmael were thrown out of Abraham's home.
> 
> You, and others, want the People of Abraham to embrace those who call themselves descendants of Ishmael, while this very people continue to look for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people as a free people.
> 
> Not even Ishmael had the audacity to attack Abraham and his tribe as revenge or feeling of superiority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So now you blame the Mufti for the Holocaust. How much land do you justify stealing with that bit of chicanery?
> 
> You forget that Abraham has six sons with Keturah who was a Midianite Arab. Is your education really so poor or is this deliberate?
Click to expand...

Huh? You mean Israel is stealing their own land???


----------



## surada

MJB12741 said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nation in Congo, or Uganda, and Australia, where none of those places IS the Jewish homeland, and the Jews would have indeed been taking over another indigenous people's land.
> 
> 
> 
> _Is the land of “Israel” their true ancient homeland?
> 
> *Promised Land*
> 
> “Moses went up Mount Nebo to the top of Pisgah, looked over the *promised land of Israel* spread out before him, and died, at the age of one hundred and twenty, according to Talmudic legend on 7 Adar, his 120th birthday exactly. _
> 
> _Moab is the historical name for a mountainous strip of land in modern-day _*Jordan* _running along the eastern shore of the _*Dead Sea**.  *_In ancient times, it was home to the kingdom of the Moabites, a people often in conflict with their Israelite neighbors to the west._
> 
> _The Moabites were a historical people, whose existence is attested to by numerous archeological findings, most notably the __Mesha Stele__, which describes the Moabite victory over an unnamed son of __King_ _Omri__ of __Israel__. Their capital was _*Dibon**, *_located next to the modern Jordanian town of _*Dhiban**.*_”_
> _http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Moab_
> 
> From there they moved to Egypt
> (Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:
> (Gen 45:20 KJV) Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.
> (Gen 45:21 KJV) *And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.*
> (Gen 47:1 KJV) *Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.*
> (Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.
> 
> Based on the above the* “Promised Land” *is not the land the Jews are occupying today. In biblical verse terms the Jews were nomads who were wonderers living off of the land grazing their sheep on the open plains.
> -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I find it beyond humorous, that many people who have lost the identity their ancestors had, or of a separate people, with a separate culture and history, go around forums and other places, on tv and media, telling the Jewish people that they do not know their ancient history, they are not descended from those ancient people, etc......
> 
> Exactly because they have so embraced the new culture which was basically shoved down their ancestor's throat, be they Christians or Muslims, Hindus, Buddists, even Jews.........they can only continue to embrace the hatred created by Christianity and Islam as an excuse to anything and everything which goes wrong in this world....
> 
> AS IF......things going bad, nature, humans, animals, plagues, etc......all came to be when the Judaism came to be.
> 
> It is a very sad illness, toxic to the core, and cannot be eradicated because those who practice a "solution" to all of those maladies would find themselves to be the fools...... for once all the Jews are gone, dead or converted, those problems and worse would continue to exist.
> 
> Then......they will start hunting for those who "were Jews " before and accuse them of not having left it and not being true.  Yes, the Inquisition all over again.
> 
> 
> The Right to Destroy Jewish History has never been worse at its believer's core than during and after the Holocaust.
> 
> Jews are not humans.  Do NOT care about their history, the history also found in the writings of every people they dealt with, and every invader, conqueror, who to this day have not changed their history books to wipe out the Jews as a people.
> 
> NT and Koran have not wiped the Jewish people out.
> 
> But today Christians  and Muslims want to do exactly that.
> 
> Am Israel Chai
> The People of Israel Live
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you make these claims to justify taking ancestral lands from everybody else?? Nobody wants to wipe out the Jews. What a vile accusation. Even the Torah tells you these are your half brothers and cousins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Ancestral lands became Israel 3000 years ago.  And then others came and took from that.  One only has to read history written by the Greeks, Romans, Byzantine, etc
> 
> But the Jews are the only who remain with a non stop history on the land.  All the others blended with the other populations, or moved away.
> 
> 
> I am sorry that you still do not get what the Holocaust in Europe was about. Aided by the Husseini clan who planned on building Concentration Camps in Palestine once Germany won the war, which it did not.
> 
> 
> Keep believing that Husseini did not want to wipe out the Jews, as the Nazis did, as he himself did in Bosnia during WWII.
> 
> What in the world would those Concentration Camps have been for?
> 
> Our Half Brothers and Cousins have committed incredible crimes against the Jewish people for
> the past 2000 years.  Have negated the Jewish people any form of respect.  And continue to do so.
> 
> Which is exactly why Hagar and Ishmael were thrown out of Abraham's home.
> 
> You, and others, want the People of Abraham to embrace those who call themselves descendants of Ishmael, while this very people continue to look for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people as a free people.
> 
> Not even Ishmael had the audacity to attack Abraham and his tribe as revenge or feeling of superiority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So now you blame the Mufti for the Holocaust. How much land do you justify stealing with that bit of chicanery?
> 
> You forget that Abraham has six sons with Keturah who was a Midianite Arab. Is your education really so poor or is this deliberate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Huh? You mean Israel is stealing their own land???
Click to expand...


Nope. I have been pretty clear. The Jewish people were never the only people who lived in Palestiine for the past 2500 years.

Why are you confused?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Submarginal as these conditions were, they were immeasurably better than those of Muslim Arabs elsewhere in the Middle East. The statistics of Arab population growth were revealing: In Palestine, the increase between 1922 and 1946 was 118 percent, a rate of almost 5 percent annually, and the highest in the Arab world except for Egypt. It was not all natural increase. During those 24 years, approximately 100,000 Arabs entered the country from neighboring lands. The influx could be traced in some measure to the orderly government provided by the British, but far more, certainly, to the economic opportunities made possible by Jewish settlement.
> 
> *The rise of the Yishuv benefited Arab life indirectly, by disproportionate Jewish contributions to government revenues, and thereby to increased mandatory expenditures in the Arab sector; and directly, by new markets for Arab produce and (until the civil war of 1936) employment opportunities for Arab labor.* It was significant, for example, that the movement of Arabs within Palestine itself was largely to regions of Jewish concentration. Thus, Arab population increase during the 1930s was 87 percent in Haifa, 61 percent in Jaffa, 37 percent in Jerusalem. A similar growth was registered in Arab towns located near Jewish agricultural villages. *The 25 percent rise of Arab participation in industry could be traced exclusively to the needs of the large Jewish immigration.*
> 
> Under the Turks, Arab political life had been rudimentary and had consisted largely of maneuvers for civil office among rival _effendi_ families [“effendi” is a Turkish title of respect, used most commonly for government officials or members of the aristocracy]. No organized nationalist movement whatever came into being until after the Armistice, when Muslim‑Christian Associations were founded in various Arab towns to protest the impending Jewish National Home. This opposition, too, was at first essentially a projection of Syrian nationalism. It followed the lead of Arab politicians in Damascus during the unsuccessful 1919‑1920 effort to establish an independent Syrian kingdom.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? | My Jewish Learning
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians. Israeli Palestinian Relations. Contemporary Israel. The Jewish State. Jewish History and Community.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.myjewishlearning.com



Yes. The Zionists always claim hordes of Arabs moved in after they arrived. Its the land without people for a people without land lie.

The population of Palestine doubled in about 15 years with 600,000 non Arabic speaking Europeans.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Submarginal as these conditions were, they were immeasurably better than those of Muslim Arabs elsewhere in the Middle East. The statistics of Arab population growth were revealing: In Palestine, the increase between 1922 and 1946 was 118 percent, a rate of almost 5 percent annually, and the highest in the Arab world except for Egypt. It was not all natural increase. During those 24 years, approximately 100,000 Arabs entered the country from neighboring lands. The influx could be traced in some measure to the orderly government provided by the British, but far more, certainly, to the economic opportunities made possible by Jewish settlement.
> 
> *The rise of the Yishuv benefited Arab life indirectly, by disproportionate Jewish contributions to government revenues, and thereby to increased mandatory expenditures in the Arab sector; and directly, by new markets for Arab produce and (until the civil war of 1936) employment opportunities for Arab labor.* It was significant, for example, that the movement of Arabs within Palestine itself was largely to regions of Jewish concentration. Thus, Arab population increase during the 1930s was 87 percent in Haifa, 61 percent in Jaffa, 37 percent in Jerusalem. A similar growth was registered in Arab towns located near Jewish agricultural villages. *The 25 percent rise of Arab participation in industry could be traced exclusively to the needs of the large Jewish immigration.*
> 
> Under the Turks, Arab political life had been rudimentary and had consisted largely of maneuvers for civil office among rival _effendi_ families [“effendi” is a Turkish title of respect, used most commonly for government officials or members of the aristocracy]. No organized nationalist movement whatever came into being until after the Armistice, when Muslim‑Christian Associations were founded in various Arab towns to protest the impending Jewish National Home. This opposition, too, was at first essentially a projection of Syrian nationalism. It followed the lead of Arab politicians in Damascus during the unsuccessful 1919‑1920 effort to establish an independent Syrian kingdom.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? | My Jewish Learning
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians. Israeli Palestinian Relations. Contemporary Israel. The Jewish State. Jewish History and Community.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.myjewishlearning.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. The Zionists always claim hordes of Arabs moved in after they arrived. Its the land without people for a people without land lie.
> 
> The population of Palestine doubled in about 15 years with 600,000 non Arabic speaking Europeans.
Click to expand...

It doubled because the Jew hating Brits let Arabs migrate illegally while the legal immigration of Jews was nearly halted.

Let us look at history:

As late as 1882, the Arab population of Palestine barely reached 260,000. Yet by 1914 this number had doubled, and by 1920 it had reached 600,000. Under the mandate, the figure grew even more dramatically, climbing to 840,000 by 1931, and representing 81 percent of the country’s inhabitants.

Approximately 75,000 of the Palestine Arabs were Christian, heavily impacted [that is, tightly packed] in the urban areas, comparatively literate, and widely employed at the middle and lower echelons of the mandatory administration. The Muslim Arabs — the majority — were [much less economically and institutionally developed]. Fully 70 percent of them lived on the soil, mainly in the hilly northern and central regions of the country, where they raised grains, vegetables, olive oil, and tobacco.

A 1922 census revealed that a third of the Arab farmers were _fellahin —_ tenant sharecroppers — whose average plot rarely exceeded 100 dunams (25 acres). Endlessly indebted to their landlords, to whom they paid a rent of from 33 to 50 percent of their crops, they lived with their families of five or more children in mud‑brick huts, possessed virtually no sanitary facilities, and suffered chronically from amoebic dysentery and bilharziasis.

Submarginal as these conditions were, they were immeasurably better than those of Muslim Arabs elsewhere in the Middle East. The statistics of Arab population growth were revealing: In Palestine, the increase between 1922 and 1946 was 118 percent, a rate of almost 5 percent annually, and the highest in the Arab world except for Egypt. It was not all natural increase. During those 24 years, approximately 100,000 Arabs entered the country from neighboring lands. The influx could be traced in some measure to the orderly government provided by the British, but far more, certainly, to the economic opportunities made possible by Jewish settlement.

The rise of the Yishuv benefited Arab life indirectly, by disproportionate Jewish contributions to government revenues, and thereby to increased mandatory expenditures in the Arab sector; and directly, by new markets for Arab produce and (until the civil war of 1936) employment opportunities for Arab labor. It was significant, for example, that the movement of Arabs within Palestine itself was largely to regions of Jewish concentration. Thus, Arab population increase during the 1930s was 87 percent in Haifa, 61 percent in Jaffa, 37 percent in Jerusalem. A similar growth was registered in Arab towns located near Jewish agricultural villages. The 25 percent rise of Arab participation in industry could be traced exclusively to the needs of the large Jewish immigration.

Under the Turks, Arab political life had been rudimentary and had consisted largely of maneuvers for civil office among rival _effendi_ families [“effendi” is a Turkish title of respect, used most commonly for government officials or members of the aristocracy]. No organized nationalist movement whatever came into being until after the Armistice, when Muslim‑Christian Associations were founded in various Arab towns to protest the impending Jewish National Home. This opposition, too, was at first essentially a projection of Syrian nationalism. It followed the lead of Arab politicians in Damascus during the unsuccessful 1919‑1920 effort to establish an independent Syrian kingdom.

Accordingly, the collapse of Feisal’s regime in the summer of 1920 and the transfer of nationalist headquarters from Damascus to Jerusalem played a critical role in the development of an authentic Palestine Arab nationalism. It did not escape the Arab leadership, especially those who formerly had devoted their energies to the Hashemite cause in Syria, that the Zionists, as a minority settlement, were surely more vulnerable to concerted resistance than were the French or British.

(full article online)









						Who Are The Palestinians? | My Jewish Learning
					

Who are the Palestinians. Israeli Palestinian Relations. Contemporary Israel. The Jewish State. Jewish History and Community.




					www.myjewishlearning.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Submarginal as these conditions were, they were immeasurably better than those of Muslim Arabs elsewhere in the Middle East. The statistics of Arab population growth were revealing: In Palestine, the increase between 1922 and 1946 was 118 percent, a rate of almost 5 percent annually, and the highest in the Arab world except for Egypt. It was not all natural increase. During those 24 years, approximately 100,000 Arabs entered the country from neighboring lands. The influx could be traced in some measure to the orderly government provided by the British, but far more, certainly, to the economic opportunities made possible by Jewish settlement.
> 
> *The rise of the Yishuv benefited Arab life indirectly, by disproportionate Jewish contributions to government revenues, and thereby to increased mandatory expenditures in the Arab sector; and directly, by new markets for Arab produce and (until the civil war of 1936) employment opportunities for Arab labor.* It was significant, for example, that the movement of Arabs within Palestine itself was largely to regions of Jewish concentration. Thus, Arab population increase during the 1930s was 87 percent in Haifa, 61 percent in Jaffa, 37 percent in Jerusalem. A similar growth was registered in Arab towns located near Jewish agricultural villages. *The 25 percent rise of Arab participation in industry could be traced exclusively to the needs of the large Jewish immigration.*
> 
> Under the Turks, Arab political life had been rudimentary and had consisted largely of maneuvers for civil office among rival _effendi_ families [“effendi” is a Turkish title of respect, used most commonly for government officials or members of the aristocracy]. No organized nationalist movement whatever came into being until after the Armistice, when Muslim‑Christian Associations were founded in various Arab towns to protest the impending Jewish National Home. This opposition, too, was at first essentially a projection of Syrian nationalism. It followed the lead of Arab politicians in Damascus during the unsuccessful 1919‑1920 effort to establish an independent Syrian kingdom.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? | My Jewish Learning
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians. Israeli Palestinian Relations. Contemporary Israel. The Jewish State. Jewish History and Community.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.myjewishlearning.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. The Zionists always claim hordes of Arabs moved in after they arrived. Its the land without people for a people without land lie.
> 
> The population of Palestine doubled in about 15 years with 600,000 non Arabic speaking Europeans.
Click to expand...

People have been distorting that sentence :
"Its the land without people for a people without land" for decades.

Of course the land had people, including Jewish People, it was conquered and dominated by the Ottoman Empire.

The Origin of the Phrase

Many commentators, such as the late Arab literary theorist Edward Said, erroneously attribute the first use of the phrase to Israel Zangwill, a British author, playwright, and poet.5 In fact, the phrase was coined and propagated by nineteenth Christian writers.

In 1831, Muhammad Ali Pasha, the ruler of Egypt, wrested control of Greater Syria from direct Ottoman control, a political change which led the British Foreign Ministry to send a consul to Jerusalem. Such a development catalyzed popular imagination.

The earliest published use of the phrase appears to have been by Church of Scotland clergyman Alexander Keith in his 1843 book The Land of Israel According to the Covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.6 Keith was an influential evangelical thinker whose most popular work, Evidence of the Truth of the Christian Religion Derived from the Literal Fulfillment of Prophecy,7 remains in print almost two centuries after it was first published. As an advocate of the idea that Christians should work to encourage the biblical prophecy of a Jewish return to the land of Israel, he wrote that the Jews are “a people without a country; even as their own land, as subsequently to be shown, is in a great measure a country without a people.”8 Keith was aware that the Holy Land was populated because he had traveled to Palestine in 1839 on behalf of the Church of Scotland, and returned five years later with his son, George Skene Keith, believed to be the first photographer to visit to the Holy Land.

(Full article online)





__





						Diana Muir:  Who really said it? ... “A Land without a People for a People without a Land” |  History News         Network
					






					historynewsnetwork.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nation in Congo, or Uganda, and Australia, where none of those places IS the Jewish homeland, and the Jews would have indeed been taking over another indigenous people's land.
> 
> 
> 
> _Is the land of “Israel” their true ancient homeland?
> 
> *Promised Land*
> 
> “Moses went up Mount Nebo to the top of Pisgah, looked over the *promised land of Israel* spread out before him, and died, at the age of one hundred and twenty, according to Talmudic legend on 7 Adar, his 120th birthday exactly. _
> 
> _Moab is the historical name for a mountainous strip of land in modern-day _*Jordan* _running along the eastern shore of the _*Dead Sea**.  *_In ancient times, it was home to the kingdom of the Moabites, a people often in conflict with their Israelite neighbors to the west._
> 
> _The Moabites were a historical people, whose existence is attested to by numerous archeological findings, most notably the __Mesha Stele__, which describes the Moabite victory over an unnamed son of __King_ _Omri__ of __Israel__. Their capital was _*Dibon**, *_located next to the modern Jordanian town of _*Dhiban**.*_”_
> _http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Moab_
> 
> From there they moved to Egypt
> (Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:
> (Gen 45:20 KJV) Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.
> (Gen 45:21 KJV) *And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.*
> (Gen 47:1 KJV) *Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.*
> (Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.
> 
> Based on the above the* “Promised Land” *is not the land the Jews are occupying today. In biblical verse terms the Jews were nomads who were wonderers living off of the land grazing their sheep on the open plains.
> -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I find it beyond humorous, that many people who have lost the identity their ancestors had, or of a separate people, with a separate culture and history, go around forums and other places, on tv and media, telling the Jewish people that they do not know their ancient history, they are not descended from those ancient people, etc......
> 
> Exactly because they have so embraced the new culture which was basically shoved down their ancestor's throat, be they Christians or Muslims, Hindus, Buddists, even Jews.........they can only continue to embrace the hatred created by Christianity and Islam as an excuse to anything and everything which goes wrong in this world....
> 
> AS IF......things going bad, nature, humans, animals, plagues, etc......all came to be when the Judaism came to be.
> 
> It is a very sad illness, toxic to the core, and cannot be eradicated because those who practice a "solution" to all of those maladies would find themselves to be the fools...... for once all the Jews are gone, dead or converted, those problems and worse would continue to exist.
> 
> Then......they will start hunting for those who "were Jews " before and accuse them of not having left it and not being true.  Yes, the Inquisition all over again.
> 
> 
> The Right to Destroy Jewish History has never been worse at its believer's core than during and after the Holocaust.
> 
> Jews are not humans.  Do NOT care about their history, the history also found in the writings of every people they dealt with, and every invader, conqueror, who to this day have not changed their history books to wipe out the Jews as a people.
> 
> NT and Koran have not wiped the Jewish people out.
> 
> But today Christians  and Muslims want to do exactly that.
> 
> Am Israel Chai
> The People of Israel Live
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you make these claims to justify taking ancestral lands from everybody else?? Nobody wants to wipe out the Jews. What a vile accusation. Even the Torah tells you these are your half brothers and cousins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Ancestral lands became Israel 3000 years ago.  And then others came and took from that.  One only has to read history written by the Greeks, Romans, Byzantine, etc
> 
> But the Jews are the only who remain with a non stop history on the land.  All the others blended with the other populations, or moved away.
> 
> 
> I am sorry that you still do not get what the Holocaust in Europe was about. Aided by the Husseini clan who planned on building Concentration Camps in Palestine once Germany won the war, which it did not.
> 
> 
> Keep believing that Husseini did not want to wipe out the Jews, as the Nazis did, as he himself did in Bosnia during WWII.
> 
> What in the world would those Concentration Camps have been for?
> 
> Our Half Brothers and Cousins have committed incredible crimes against the Jewish people for
> the past 2000 years.  Have negated the Jewish people any form of respect.  And continue to do so.
> 
> Which is exactly why Hagar and Ishmael were thrown out of Abraham's home.
> 
> You, and others, want the People of Abraham to embrace those who call themselves descendants of Ishmael, while this very people continue to look for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people as a free people.
> 
> Not even Ishmael had the audacity to attack Abraham and his tribe as revenge or feeling of superiority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So now you blame the Mufti for the Holocaust. How much land do you justify stealing with that bit of chicanery?
> 
> You forget that Abraham has six sons with Keturah who was a Midianite Arab. Is your education really so poor or is this deliberate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Huh? You mean Israel is stealing their own land???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. I have been pretty clear. The Jewish people were never the only people who lived in Palestiine for the past 2500 years.
> 
> Why are you confused?
Click to expand...

And we have been more than clear that the Jewish People had NOT been the only people living on the land. 

 But it was the only people who formed a religion, culture, history, which continuously met with the invaders and conquerors of that land, which is mentioned in the history of those invaders. 

Before or after the common Era, the Jews, and Israel or Judea were the ones recognized as the indigenous people of that land.


----------



## Sixties Fan

> *Official PA TV host:* “How was the expulsion (i.e., the Nazi genocide) of the Jews carried out? German [Nazi] Minister of Propaganda Goebbels, together with Hitler, disseminated that the Jews are like rats: They spread diseases, rob the wealth of Germany, and must be expelled... They reached the land of Palestine hungry, sick, lacking everything, infected with typhus and malaria. We gave them fresh water to drink and fed them oranges, and they betrayed the hand that was extended to help them.”
> [Official PA TV, From the Israeli Archive, Feb. 2, 2021]


This portrayal of a generous welcome is a complete distortion of history. In fact, while Jews were fleeing Europe following the rise of the Nazi party in 1933, Arabs regularly attacked and killed Jews in British Palestine, climaxing in an intensive Arab terror campaign from 1936-1939. The Arab terror convinced Britain to cut off almost all Jewish immigration in May 1939 – the infamous British White Paper – in spite of protests such as Liberal British MP James Rothschild who warned in parliament that "for the majority of the Jews who go to Palestine it is a question of migration or of physical extinction." [House of Commons Debates, Volume 347 column 1984] In fact, the British White Paper, brought on by Arab pressure was a death sentence for vast numbers of European Jews.

Later in the PA TV program, the host jumps back in time to the Jewish immigration to Palestine in the1920s again claiming falsely that Jews were welcomed. This likewise is a distortion of events as even at that time Jews in pre-state Israel were subjected to ongoing waves of Arab violence, and Jewish immigrants were not welcomed by the local population. The additional libel is the false assertion that Jews were coming as part of a “colonial project” and with the goal “to kill the Palestinians.”  

(full article online)









						PA lies: Palestinians welcomed Jews escaping the Nazis, but Jews “betrayed” them | PMW Analysis
					

Immigrant Jews escaping Europe in the 1920s were “a colonialist project wanting to kill the Palestinians”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

One of the central elements of the Palestinian narrative is the negation of the entire Jewish history in the Land of Israel in general and in Jerusalem in particular. Despite numerous sources and archeological finds proving the opposite, the Palestinian Authority regularly repeats this claim because it is the basis for the PA's denial of Israel's right to exist. Recently, the PA Minister of Culture emphasized this Palestinian lie, claiming Israel has "no connection" to Jerusalem, history, geography or even to the future. He then asserted the second fundamental Palestinian historical revision intended to create a Palestinian right to exist. He claimed that Palestinians were Canaanites with a 6,000-year history in the land: 



























> *PA Minister of Culture Atef Abu Saif:* "Our struggle is with this State [of Israel] that came out of nowhere, without a history and without geography, stole our land, and wants to put an end to our existence... There is a lying author who wrote a story about his false presence on this land, and then comes and wants to realize his tale. There is nothing in history that proves this presence. They have not found one stone... [Israel knows] that they have no connection to this city [Jerusalem], that they have no connection to this history, and that they have no connection to the geography, just as they have no connection to the future... If Israel celebrated the lie of '3,000 years [of Jewish history] in Jerusalem,' we have 7,000 years in Jerusalem - so what? We Canaanites are the first ones who built Jebus more than 6,000 years ago. And perhaps we need no celebrations because it is natural that we are here. Those who celebrate are foreigners."
> Official PA TV, _Palestine This Morning_, Aug. 26, 2019



(full article online)





__





						PA Minister of Culture denies Jewish history | PMW Analysis
					

One of the central elements of the Palestinian narrative is the negation of the entire Jewish history in the Land of Israel.




					palwatch.org


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Indeed, the Khazarian hypothesis has been debunked by virtually every field of science. For instance, historians stress that the kingdom most likely never converted to Judaism. Archaeologists excavating in the former Khazar lands have found almost no artifacts displaying Jewish symbols. Moreover, linguists point out that Yiddish — for centuries the language spoken by Eastern European Jews — is in no way similar to the vernacular used in Khazaria, nor do Jewish surnames from the last 600 years contain any link to the kingdom.
> 
> Experts in Jewish genetics have lambasted Elhaik’s “findings,” arguing that he “appears to be applying the statistics in a way that gives him different results from what everybody else has obtained from essentially similar data.” In fact, most DNA research proves precisely the opposite: namely, that European Jews _are_ closely related to Middle Eastern populations.
> 
> The anti-Zionist argument is flawed for another major reason: that is, most Jewish Israelis are not of European descent. According to Tel Aviv University research, in 2018 only 31.8 percent of Israeli Jews self-identified as Ashkenazi (Eastern European). A significantly larger share, about 45 percent, identified as Mizrahi – an umbrella term for those Jews that fled Arab countries to nascent Israel. Israelis of Yemeni origin, for example, trace their roots in the region back to biblical times.
> 
> The fact that millions of Israeli Mizrahim are indigenous to the Middle East is indisputable.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Junk Science': Ashkenazi Jews Are Not Descendants of Khazar Converts | Honest Reporting
> 
> 
> The hypothesis has been debunked by virtually every field of science. The Khazar kingdom most likely never converted to Judaism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> honestreporting.com



There is lots of information links from a variety of sources here. They are Jews.

Khazaria.com - History of Jewish Khazars, Khazar Turk ...
www.khazaria.com
May 03, 2021 · Medieval Kingdom of Khazaria, 652-969 Over a thousand years ago, the far east of Europe was ruled by Jewish kings who presided over numerous tribes, including their own tribe: the Turkic Khazars.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Khazarian hypothesis has been debunked by virtually every field of science. For instance, historians stress that the kingdom most likely never converted to Judaism. Archaeologists excavating in the former Khazar lands have found almost no artifacts displaying Jewish symbols. Moreover, linguists point out that Yiddish — for centuries the language spoken by Eastern European Jews — is in no way similar to the vernacular used in Khazaria, nor do Jewish surnames from the last 600 years contain any link to the kingdom.
> 
> Experts in Jewish genetics have lambasted Elhaik’s “findings,” arguing that he “appears to be applying the statistics in a way that gives him different results from what everybody else has obtained from essentially similar data.” In fact, most DNA research proves precisely the opposite: namely, that European Jews _are_ closely related to Middle Eastern populations.
> 
> The anti-Zionist argument is flawed for another major reason: that is, most Jewish Israelis are not of European descent. According to Tel Aviv University research, in 2018 only 31.8 percent of Israeli Jews self-identified as Ashkenazi (Eastern European). A significantly larger share, about 45 percent, identified as Mizrahi – an umbrella term for those Jews that fled Arab countries to nascent Israel. Israelis of Yemeni origin, for example, trace their roots in the region back to biblical times.
> 
> The fact that millions of Israeli Mizrahim are indigenous to the Middle East is indisputable.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Junk Science': Ashkenazi Jews Are Not Descendants of Khazar Converts | Honest Reporting
> 
> 
> The hypothesis has been debunked by virtually every field of science. The Khazar kingdom most likely never converted to Judaism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> honestreporting.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is lots of information links from a variety of sources here. They are Jews.
> 
> Khazaria.com - History of Jewish Khazars, Khazar Turk ...
> www.khazaria.com
> May 03, 2021 · Medieval Kingdom of Khazaria, 652-969 Over a thousand years ago, the far east of Europe was ruled by Jewish kings who presided over numerous tribes, including their own tribe: the Turkic Khazars.
Click to expand...










						No evidence from genome-wide data of a Khazar origin for the Ashkenazi Jews - PubMed
					

The origin and history of the Ashkenazi Jewish population have long been of great interest, and advances in high-throughput genetic analysis have recently provided a new approach for investigating these topics. We and others have argued on the basis of genome-wide data that the Ashkenazi Jewish...




					pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				












						Jews are not descended from Khazars, Hebrew University historian says
					

New study finds no evidence that Ashkenazi Jews are the descendants of Khazars, or that subjects in the medieval kingdom converted to Judaism en masse.




					www.haaretz.com
				












						Ashkenazi Jews Are Not Khazars. Here’s The Proof.
					

Globally speaking, all arguments suggested by proponents of Khazarian theory are either highly speculative or simply wrong.




					forward.com
				












						What’s the Khazar theory? And what it's used for?
					

Khazar theory rests entirely on the alleged conversion of an ethnic Turkic race called the Khazars to Judaism




					www.irelandisrael.ie


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Khazarian hypothesis has been debunked by virtually every field of science. For instance, historians stress that the kingdom most likely never converted to Judaism. Archaeologists excavating in the former Khazar lands have found almost no artifacts displaying Jewish symbols. Moreover, linguists point out that Yiddish — for centuries the language spoken by Eastern European Jews — is in no way similar to the vernacular used in Khazaria, nor do Jewish surnames from the last 600 years contain any link to the kingdom.
> 
> Experts in Jewish genetics have lambasted Elhaik’s “findings,” arguing that he “appears to be applying the statistics in a way that gives him different results from what everybody else has obtained from essentially similar data.” In fact, most DNA research proves precisely the opposite: namely, that European Jews _are_ closely related to Middle Eastern populations.
> 
> The anti-Zionist argument is flawed for another major reason: that is, most Jewish Israelis are not of European descent. According to Tel Aviv University research, in 2018 only 31.8 percent of Israeli Jews self-identified as Ashkenazi (Eastern European). A significantly larger share, about 45 percent, identified as Mizrahi – an umbrella term for those Jews that fled Arab countries to nascent Israel. Israelis of Yemeni origin, for example, trace their roots in the region back to biblical times.
> 
> The fact that millions of Israeli Mizrahim are indigenous to the Middle East is indisputable.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Junk Science': Ashkenazi Jews Are Not Descendants of Khazar Converts | Honest Reporting
> 
> 
> The hypothesis has been debunked by virtually every field of science. The Khazar kingdom most likely never converted to Judaism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> honestreporting.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is lots of information links from a variety of sources here. They are Jews.
> 
> Khazaria.com - History of Jewish Khazars, Khazar Turk ...
> www.khazaria.com
> May 03, 2021 · Medieval Kingdom of Khazaria, 652-969 Over a thousand years ago, the far east of Europe was ruled by Jewish kings who presided over numerous tribes, including their own tribe: the Turkic Khazars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No evidence from genome-wide data of a Khazar origin for the Ashkenazi Jews - PubMed
> 
> 
> The origin and history of the Ashkenazi Jewish population have long been of great interest, and advances in high-throughput genetic analysis have recently provided a new approach for investigating these topics. We and others have argued on the basis of genome-wide data that the Ashkenazi Jewish...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews are not descended from Khazars, Hebrew University historian says
> 
> 
> New study finds no evidence that Ashkenazi Jews are the descendants of Khazars, or that subjects in the medieval kingdom converted to Judaism en masse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ashkenazi Jews Are Not Khazars. Here’s The Proof.
> 
> 
> Globally speaking, all arguments suggested by proponents of Khazarian theory are either highly speculative or simply wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forward.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What’s the Khazar theory? And what it's used for?
> 
> 
> Khazar theory rests entirely on the alleged conversion of an ethnic Turkic race called the Khazars to Judaism
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.irelandisrael.ie
Click to expand...


This is just a fraction of the information at the link above.

A Resource for Turkic and Jewish History in Russia and Ukraine
Last Updated: May 3, 2021

For information about THE JEWS OF KHAZARIA, click hereRead about The Jews of Khazaria - the best general-interest book about the Khazars in English

Order the improved 3rd edition (February 2018) in hardcover format:
The Jews of Khazaria from Amazon.com
from Amazon.ca in Canada
from Amazon.co.uk in the UK
from Booktopia in Australia
KINDLE EDITION (3rd edition)
More ordering options + More formats (hardcover, eBook) + More information about the book
A new candidate for Atil's location has emerged! It's Semibugry, a large Khazar-era city that was discovered in 2019 by researchers from Astrakhan, including Damir Solovyov. They continued to dig in the summer of 2020 and will resume again in 2021. I added what we know so far about Semibugry's remains to my Atil page.

The Genetics of the Medieval Khazars is our new page summarizing the results obtained so far from scientific teams around the world that have worked with genuine Khazar DNA and Saltovian DNA. The latest study was led by Tatiana Tatarinova of the University of La Verne and included Y-DNA, mtDNA, and autosomal DNA. 
Tatarinova's team concluded that the Khazars' DNA doesn't match the Ashkenazic Jews' DNA. They also confirmed that the Khazars included members with a combination of Caucasoid and Mongoloid origins. Both of these findings match statements in the 3rd edition of The Jews of Khazaria, which was written two years earlier. All but one of the bonafide Khazars studied show significant Mongoloid ancestry from the original Turkic homeland in southern Siberia and Central Asia.

continued


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Khazarian hypothesis has been debunked by virtually every field of science. For instance, historians stress that the kingdom most likely never converted to Judaism. Archaeologists excavating in the former Khazar lands have found almost no artifacts displaying Jewish symbols. Moreover, linguists point out that Yiddish — for centuries the language spoken by Eastern European Jews — is in no way similar to the vernacular used in Khazaria, nor do Jewish surnames from the last 600 years contain any link to the kingdom.
> 
> Experts in Jewish genetics have lambasted Elhaik’s “findings,” arguing that he “appears to be applying the statistics in a way that gives him different results from what everybody else has obtained from essentially similar data.” In fact, most DNA research proves precisely the opposite: namely, that European Jews _are_ closely related to Middle Eastern populations.
> 
> The anti-Zionist argument is flawed for another major reason: that is, most Jewish Israelis are not of European descent. According to Tel Aviv University research, in 2018 only 31.8 percent of Israeli Jews self-identified as Ashkenazi (Eastern European). A significantly larger share, about 45 percent, identified as Mizrahi – an umbrella term for those Jews that fled Arab countries to nascent Israel. Israelis of Yemeni origin, for example, trace their roots in the region back to biblical times.
> 
> The fact that millions of Israeli Mizrahim are indigenous to the Middle East is indisputable.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Junk Science': Ashkenazi Jews Are Not Descendants of Khazar Converts | Honest Reporting
> 
> 
> The hypothesis has been debunked by virtually every field of science. The Khazar kingdom most likely never converted to Judaism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> honestreporting.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is lots of information links from a variety of sources here. They are Jews.
> 
> Khazaria.com - History of Jewish Khazars, Khazar Turk ...
> www.khazaria.com
> May 03, 2021 · Medieval Kingdom of Khazaria, 652-969 Over a thousand years ago, the far east of Europe was ruled by Jewish kings who presided over numerous tribes, including their own tribe: the Turkic Khazars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No evidence from genome-wide data of a Khazar origin for the Ashkenazi Jews - PubMed
> 
> 
> The origin and history of the Ashkenazi Jewish population have long been of great interest, and advances in high-throughput genetic analysis have recently provided a new approach for investigating these topics. We and others have argued on the basis of genome-wide data that the Ashkenazi Jewish...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews are not descended from Khazars, Hebrew University historian says
> 
> 
> New study finds no evidence that Ashkenazi Jews are the descendants of Khazars, or that subjects in the medieval kingdom converted to Judaism en masse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ashkenazi Jews Are Not Khazars. Here’s The Proof.
> 
> 
> Globally speaking, all arguments suggested by proponents of Khazarian theory are either highly speculative or simply wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forward.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What’s the Khazar theory? And what it's used for?
> 
> 
> Khazar theory rests entirely on the alleged conversion of an ethnic Turkic race called the Khazars to Judaism
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.irelandisrael.ie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is just a fraction of the information at the link above.
> 
> A Resource for Turkic and Jewish History in Russia and Ukraine
> Last Updated: May 3, 2021
> 
> For information about THE JEWS OF KHAZARIA, click hereRead about The Jews of Khazaria - the best general-interest book about the Khazars in English
> 
> Order the improved 3rd edition (February 2018) in hardcover format:
> The Jews of Khazaria from Amazon.com
> from Amazon.ca in Canada
> from Amazon.co.uk in the UK
> from Booktopia in Australia
> KINDLE EDITION (3rd edition)
> More ordering options + More formats (hardcover, eBook) + More information about the book
> A new candidate for Atil's location has emerged! It's Semibugry, a large Khazar-era city that was discovered in 2019 by researchers from Astrakhan, including Damir Solovyov. They continued to dig in the summer of 2020 and will resume again in 2021. I added what we know so far about Semibugry's remains to my Atil page.
> 
> The Genetics of the Medieval Khazars is our new page summarizing the results obtained so far from scientific teams around the world that have worked with genuine Khazar DNA and Saltovian DNA. The latest study was led by Tatiana Tatarinova of the University of La Verne and included Y-DNA, mtDNA, and autosomal DNA.
> Tatarinova's team concluded that the Khazars' DNA doesn't match the Ashkenazic Jews' DNA. They also confirmed that the Khazars included members with a combination of Caucasoid and Mongoloid origins. Both of these findings match statements in the 3rd edition of The Jews of Khazaria, which was written two years earlier. All but one of the bonafide Khazars studied show significant Mongoloid ancestry from the original Turkic homeland in southern Siberia and Central Asia.
> 
> continued
Click to expand...

I am so sorry for you, that you never realize when you have been had by one conspiracy theory or another, intent in delegitimizing the Jewish People and Israel.

Believing is not making it true, and all these baseless conspiracy theories are just that, baseless conspiracy theories intent in destroying Israel as the Sovereign homeland of the Jewish people.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Khazarian hypothesis has been debunked by virtually every field of science. For instance, historians stress that the kingdom most likely never converted to Judaism. Archaeologists excavating in the former Khazar lands have found almost no artifacts displaying Jewish symbols. Moreover, linguists point out that Yiddish — for centuries the language spoken by Eastern European Jews — is in no way similar to the vernacular used in Khazaria, nor do Jewish surnames from the last 600 years contain any link to the kingdom.
> 
> Experts in Jewish genetics have lambasted Elhaik’s “findings,” arguing that he “appears to be applying the statistics in a way that gives him different results from what everybody else has obtained from essentially similar data.” In fact, most DNA research proves precisely the opposite: namely, that European Jews _are_ closely related to Middle Eastern populations.
> 
> The anti-Zionist argument is flawed for another major reason: that is, most Jewish Israelis are not of European descent. According to Tel Aviv University research, in 2018 only 31.8 percent of Israeli Jews self-identified as Ashkenazi (Eastern European). A significantly larger share, about 45 percent, identified as Mizrahi – an umbrella term for those Jews that fled Arab countries to nascent Israel. Israelis of Yemeni origin, for example, trace their roots in the region back to biblical times.
> 
> The fact that millions of Israeli Mizrahim are indigenous to the Middle East is indisputable.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Junk Science': Ashkenazi Jews Are Not Descendants of Khazar Converts | Honest Reporting
> 
> 
> The hypothesis has been debunked by virtually every field of science. The Khazar kingdom most likely never converted to Judaism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> honestreporting.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is lots of information links from a variety of sources here. They are Jews.
> 
> Khazaria.com - History of Jewish Khazars, Khazar Turk ...
> www.khazaria.com
> May 03, 2021 · Medieval Kingdom of Khazaria, 652-969 Over a thousand years ago, the far east of Europe was ruled by Jewish kings who presided over numerous tribes, including their own tribe: the Turkic Khazars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No evidence from genome-wide data of a Khazar origin for the Ashkenazi Jews - PubMed
> 
> 
> The origin and history of the Ashkenazi Jewish population have long been of great interest, and advances in high-throughput genetic analysis have recently provided a new approach for investigating these topics. We and others have argued on the basis of genome-wide data that the Ashkenazi Jewish...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews are not descended from Khazars, Hebrew University historian says
> 
> 
> New study finds no evidence that Ashkenazi Jews are the descendants of Khazars, or that subjects in the medieval kingdom converted to Judaism en masse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ashkenazi Jews Are Not Khazars. Here’s The Proof.
> 
> 
> Globally speaking, all arguments suggested by proponents of Khazarian theory are either highly speculative or simply wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forward.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What’s the Khazar theory? And what it's used for?
> 
> 
> Khazar theory rests entirely on the alleged conversion of an ethnic Turkic race called the Khazars to Judaism
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.irelandisrael.ie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is just a fraction of the information at the link above.
> 
> A Resource for Turkic and Jewish History in Russia and Ukraine
> Last Updated: May 3, 2021
> 
> For information about THE JEWS OF KHAZARIA, click hereRead about The Jews of Khazaria - the best general-interest book about the Khazars in English
> 
> Order the improved 3rd edition (February 2018) in hardcover format:
> The Jews of Khazaria from Amazon.com
> from Amazon.ca in Canada
> from Amazon.co.uk in the UK
> from Booktopia in Australia
> KINDLE EDITION (3rd edition)
> More ordering options + More formats (hardcover, eBook) + More information about the book
> A new candidate for Atil's location has emerged! It's Semibugry, a large Khazar-era city that was discovered in 2019 by researchers from Astrakhan, including Damir Solovyov. They continued to dig in the summer of 2020 and will resume again in 2021. I added what we know so far about Semibugry's remains to my Atil page.
> 
> The Genetics of the Medieval Khazars is our new page summarizing the results obtained so far from scientific teams around the world that have worked with genuine Khazar DNA and Saltovian DNA. The latest study was led by Tatiana Tatarinova of the University of La Verne and included Y-DNA, mtDNA, and autosomal DNA.
> Tatarinova's team concluded that the Khazars' DNA doesn't match the Ashkenazic Jews' DNA. They also confirmed that the Khazars included members with a combination of Caucasoid and Mongoloid origins. Both of these findings match statements in the 3rd edition of The Jews of Khazaria, which was written two years earlier. All but one of the bonafide Khazars studied show significant Mongoloid ancestry from the original Turkic homeland in southern Siberia and Central Asia.
> 
> continued
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am so sorry for you, that you never realize when you have been had by one conspiracy theory or another, intent in delegitimizing the Jewish People and Israel.
> 
> Believing is not making it true, and all these baseless conspiracy theories are just that, baseless conspiracy theories intent in destroying Israel as the Sovereign homeland of the Jewish people.
Click to expand...


Palestine was the homeland of other people as well .. to include Canaanites and Arabs.

Forget conspiracy theories.. There are links to ancient letters and documents as well as ongoing archaelogical projects about the Khazars and Turkic Jews. Its a treasure trove of information.

Medieval Kingdom of Khazaria, 652-969
Over a thousand years ago, the far east of Europe was ruled by Jewish kings who presided over numerous tribes, including their own tribe: the Turkic Khazars. After their conversion, the Khazar people used Jewish personal names, spoke and wrote in Hebrew, were circumcised, had synagogues and rabbis, studied the Torah and Talmud, and observed Hanukkah, Pesach, and the Sabbath. The Khazars were an advanced civilization with one of the most tolerant societies of the medieval period. It hosted merchants from all over Asia and Europe. On these pages it is hoped that you may learn more about this fascinating culture.

AN INTRODUCTION TO THE HISTORY OF KHAZARIA
Essays summarizing the history of the Khazars, their principal cities, their culture, and their conversion to Judaism in the 9th century.
An Introduction to the History of Khazaria
Current Issues in Khazar Studies
Los Khazares: un experimento europeo de construcción de un estado Judío - in Spanish
Histoire des Khazars: la nation juive de Russie et d'Ukraine - in French
Znakomstvo s Istoriey Xazarii - in Russian
Hazar Türkleri tarihine giriş - in Turkish






						Khazaria.com - History of Jewish Khazars, Khazar Turk, Khazarian  Jews
					






					www.khazaria.com


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan 

Edomites converted to Judaism. 

Berbers converted to Judaism. 

His/Her Story: A Jewish warrior queen - The Jerusalem Post








						His/Her Story: A Jewish warrior queen
					

The story of the Jewish Berber queen, her success as a warrior, and her own destruction.




					www.jpost.com
				



Aug 05, 2011 · Her tribe, the Gerawa, had converted to Judaism earlier in the century; their queen, Dahia al-Kahena, daughter of Mathia ben Tifan, either converted with them or was Jewish by birth. This era...

Yemeni Arabs converted to Judaism.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Surada: "The European Jews sought sanctuary in Palestine and immediately began to abuse the Palestinians."

Jews, who had moved to Europe, Africa and other parts of Asia, have always returned to their homeland through the ages.

This is one of your quotes which are totally empty of evidence, as you have given none.  

Like the other saying you gave that there is Archeological evidence of Arab presence in Ancient Canaan for the past 10,000.

Why doesn't the Palestinian Museum, or any other Museum display that evidence?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan
> 
> Edomites converted to Judaism.
> 
> Berbers converted to Judaism.
> 
> His/Her Story: A Jewish warrior queen - The Jerusalem Post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His/Her Story: A Jewish warrior queen
> 
> 
> The story of the Jewish Berber queen, her success as a warrior, and her own destruction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aug 05, 2011 · Her tribe, the Gerawa, had converted to Judaism earlier in the century; their queen, Dahia al-Kahena, daughter of Mathia ben Tifan, either converted with them or was Jewish by birth. This era...
> 
> Yemeni Arabs converted to Judaism.


Jews always welcome those who are true to their religion.

You have proven absolutely nothing so far which negates any Jewish history, and would help put an end to Israel as the Jewish ancient  homeland.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hiding Jewish history​Anything to do with Jewish history has been attacked. Jesus – a Jew preaching to Jews – has his identity erased on Wikipedia’s pages. Jesus is listed as a ‘pre-mandate’ Palestinian.

As Jewish history has become a politicised part of the current conversation – it has also become a target for Wikipedia’s swarm of antisemitic editors. One method used is to equate histories – as if the Palestinian identity (a 20th century invention) and the Jewish identity (3000 years old) are somehow equal. The introduction on the page of Jerusalem is a good example of this strategy:





That section basically turns 3000 years of Jewish history into a ‘he said’ – ‘she said’ argument that flattens the truth out of existence.

Another good examples is the page on the ‘history of Palestine’ – which itself is dependant on a page ‘the region of Palestine’. In these pages ‘Palestine’ is defined by the borders created through the Mandate in 1922. As a region – this specific area has no history beyond that. If we accept ‘Palestine’ as a historical region – (which only stayed in the western conciousness because Christians viewed it as the Holy Land) – then parts of Jordan and Syria *must* also be included. But they are not. This is therefore a distorted and politicised page – meaningless in a geo-political and historical context – that was created solely for anti-Israel purposes.

All of the pages – all of them have been shaped by anti-Israel activists who seek to belittle the Jewish ties with the Jewish homeland.

(full article online)









						Make no mistake - Wikipedia is at war with the Jews
					

Wikipedia is overrun with antisemitic editors -rewriting history - and demonising Israel Make no mistake - Wikipedia is at war with the Jews




					david-collier.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Anti-Zionism posits that things were better before the State of Israel was created, before Zionism ruined the previously cordial relations between Jews and Arabs in the Middle East.

But before the State of Israel, before Zionism, Jews were hardly treated as equals. Far from it - Jews were considered Dhimmis, second-class citizens at best, subject to many discriminatory laws. Like all minorities, Jews living under the Ottoman Empire were forced to pay the jizya tax as well as the Rav Akasi, or 'rabbi tax.' Additional rules prevented Dhimmis such as Jews from riding horses, carrying weapons, building new synagogues, and publicly displaying signs of their religion. Whether these rules were enforced depended on the rulers of the time, but they remained on the books until the mid-1800s, when the Ottoman Empire, now in decline, granted equality to its citizens, an act which was extremely controversial throughout the Middle East.

There were massacres of the Jews of Safed in the 1660s and in 1834, of the Jews of Baghdad in 1828, of the Jews of the Iranian city of Barfarush in 1867, to name just a few of the mass killings of Jews. European visitors to Jerusalem in the 1800s described the degradation and humiliation of the Jews living in their ancient capital.

It is this reality which the anti-Zionists wish to restore, a reality in which Jews have no equality under the law, no right to defend themselves, and are dependent on the good graces of those in power. The Jews should have been happy, even grateful, to be Dhimmis.

(full article online)









						What is anti-Zionism?
					

Why does the sight of a religious Jew praying at his holy site incite so much hatred and violence? Op Ed.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Hiding Jewish history​Anything to do with Jewish history has been attacked. Jesus – a Jew preaching to Jews – has his identity erased on Wikipedia’s pages. Jesus is listed as a ‘pre-mandate’ Palestinian.
> 
> As Jewish history has become a politicised part of the current conversation – it has also become a target for Wikipedia’s swarm of antisemitic editors. One method used is to equate histories – as if the Palestinian identity (a 20th century invention) and the Jewish identity (3000 years old) are somehow equal. The introduction on the page of Jerusalem is a good example of this strategy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That section basically turns 3000 years of Jewish history into a ‘he said’ – ‘she said’ argument that flattens the truth out of existence.
> 
> Another good examples is the page on the ‘history of Palestine’ – which itself is dependant on a page ‘the region of Palestine’. In these pages ‘Palestine’ is defined by the borders created through the Mandate in 1922. As a region – this specific area has no history beyond that. If we accept ‘Palestine’ as a historical region – (which only stayed in the western conciousness because Christians viewed it as the Holy Land) – then parts of Jordan and Syria *must* also be included. But they are not. This is therefore a distorted and politicised page – meaningless in a geo-political and historical context – that was created solely for anti-Israel purposes.
> 
> All of the pages – all of them have been shaped by anti-Israel activists who seek to belittle the Jewish ties with the Jewish homeland.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Make no mistake - Wikipedia is at war with the Jews
> 
> 
> Wikipedia is overrun with antisemitic editors -rewriting history - and demonising Israel Make no mistake - Wikipedia is at war with the Jews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> david-collier.com



Maybe the Zionists should give some thought to doing the right thing. They are not the damaged people they were 70 years ago.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Anti-Zionism posits that things were better before the State of Israel was created, before Zionism ruined the previously cordial relations between Jews and Arabs in the Middle East.
> 
> But before the State of Israel, before Zionism, Jews were hardly treated as equals. Far from it - Jews were considered Dhimmis, second-class citizens at best, subject to many discriminatory laws. Like all minorities, Jews living under the Ottoman Empire were forced to pay the jizya tax as well as the Rav Akasi, or 'rabbi tax.' Additional rules prevented Dhimmis such as Jews from riding horses, carrying weapons, building new synagogues, and publicly displaying signs of their religion. Whether these rules were enforced depended on the rulers of the time, but they remained on the books until the mid-1800s, when the Ottoman Empire, now in decline, granted equality to its citizens, an act which was extremely controversial throughout the Middle East.
> 
> There were massacres of the Jews of Safed in the 1660s and in 1834, of the Jews of Baghdad in 1828, of the Jews of the Iranian city of Barfarush in 1867, to name just a few of the mass killings of Jews. European visitors to Jerusalem in the 1800s described the degradation and humiliation of the Jews living in their ancient capital.
> 
> It is this reality which the anti-Zionists wish to restore, a reality in which Jews have no equality under the law, no right to defend themselves, and are dependent on the good graces of those in power. The Jews should have been happy, even grateful, to be Dhimmis.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is anti-Zionism?
> 
> 
> Why does the sight of a religious Jew praying at his holy site incite so much hatred and violence? Op Ed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.israelnationalnews.com



Horses in Palestine?  There is no evidence for horses.. There's never been pasture for horses. Even most Roman officers didn'thave horses.


----------



## surada

Ancient people rode donkeys in Middle East long before ...
.
May 16, 2018 · Donkey remains found in Tel Haror, also in Israel, and described in 2013, were thought to date from the Middle Bronze Age, between the years of 1700 and 1550 BCE.









						Ancient people rode donkeys in Middle East long before horses were domesticated, new study suggests
					

Tooth wear provides clue to how beasts of burden were used in early Bronze Age




					www.independent.co.uk


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Maybe the Zionists should give some thought to doing the right thing. They are not the damaged people they were 70 years ago.


No, the Zionists are the ones the "indigenous Palestinians" want to see gone....so that the "Palestinians" can have the other 20% missing from the Mandate for Palestine, which was to be 100% for the Jewish homeland and started disappearing into Muslim Arab hands from 1922 on.

That makes it, much longer than 70 years, of Arab Muslims robbing the Jews of their ancient homeland, the way the Arab Muslims were, with plenty of witness evidence, being robbed of property and everything else, and being massacred - all those centuries before.

Jews are not damaged.  They rose to the occasion and created The Start up nation in the area.  Despite all the hatred, the attacks, the massacres, the destruction, the denial of Jewish history, denial of the right to go up to the Temple Mount, etc, etc etc..........

And many of the Arab countries have noticed how the Palestinian leaders are keeping their populations "damaged" on purpose, to cry rivers of crocodile tears....when.....will the BILLIONS of dollars those leaders have received from around the world, they could have created one or two nations just as great as Israel has become.


We will not cry for Argentina.  We will not cry for the Multimillionaires leaders who would never send their own children to kill Jews and end up in prison, or die.

It is the Arab Muslim and Christian population which needs to look at their leaders, as it is happening in the PA and tell them to leave, because they deserve better, they deserve peace and an education which does not say "kill the Jews" at every turn.

Yes, those are the damaged ones.  The ones who have been psychologically damaged by Islam and its putrid hatred of Jews.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Horses in Palestine?  There is no evidence for horses.. There's never been pasture for horses. Even most Roman officers didn'thave horses.


If you say that the Ottomans did not ride horses, you must be right.  Or are you?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Ancient people rode donkeys in Middle East long before ...
> .
> May 16, 2018 · Donkey remains found in Tel Haror, also in Israel, and described in 2013, were thought to date from the Middle Bronze Age, between the years of 1700 and 1550 BCE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ancient people rode donkeys in Middle East long before horses were domesticated, new study suggests
> 
> 
> Tooth wear provides clue to how beasts of burden were used in early Bronze Age
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk


The article was talking about, let us say, 100 to 500 years ago.  The Ottoman Empire.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Ancient people rode donkeys in Middle East long before ...
> .
> May 16, 2018 · Donkey remains found in Tel Haror, also in Israel, and described in 2013, were thought to date from the Middle Bronze Age, between the years of 1700 and 1550 BCE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ancient people rode donkeys in Middle East long before horses were domesticated, new study suggests
> 
> 
> Tooth wear provides clue to how beasts of burden were used in early Bronze Age
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk











						A History of Horses in the Divided Kingdom of Israel and Judah
					

Examine the history of horses in Ziony Zevit's review of Deborah O'Daniel Cantrell's The Horsemen of Israel: Horses and Charioty in Monarchic Israel.




					www.biblicalarchaeology.org


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> No, the Zionists are the ones the "indigenous Palestinians" want to see gone....so that the "Palestinians" can have the other 20% missing from the Mandate for Palestine, which was to be 100% for the Jewish homeland and started disappearing into Muslim Arab hands from 1922 on.
> 
> That makes it, much longer than 70 years, of Arab Muslims robbing the Jews of their ancient homeland, the way the Arab Muslims were, with plenty of witness evidence, being robbed of property and everything else, and being massacred - all those centuries before.
> 
> Jews are not damaged.  They rose to the occasion and created The Start up nation in the area.  Despite all the hatred, the attacks, the massacres, the destruction, the denial of Jewish history, denial of the right to go up to the Temple Mount, etc, etc etc..........
> 
> And many of the Arab countries have noticed how the Palestinian leaders are keeping their populations "damaged" on purpose, to cry rivers of crocodile tears....when.....will the BILLIONS of dollars those leaders have received from around the world, they could have created one or two nations just as great as Israel has become.
> 
> 
> We will not cry for Argentina.  We will not cry for the Multimillionaires leaders who would never send their own children to kill Jews and end up in prison, or die.
> 
> It is the Arab Muslim and Christian population which needs to look at their leaders, as it is happening in the PA and tell them to leave, because they deserve better, they deserve peace and an education which does not say "kill the Jews" at every turn.
> 
> Yes, those are the damaged ones.  The ones who have been psychologically damaged by Islam and its putrid hatred of Jews.



The Saudis have been supporting the Palestinians since 1948 long before KSA was rich.

The Europeans sought sanctuary in Palestine and ultimately caused the Arab Jews to leave Iraq,Iran, Libya, Syria etc.

Just do the right thing.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Horses in the Bible
					

Horses in the bible




					www.equest4truth.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Saudis have been supporting the Palestinians since 1948 long before KSA was rich.
> 
> The Europeans sought sanctuary in Palestine and ultimately caused the Arab Jews to leave Iraq,Iran, Libya, Syria etc.
> 
> Just do the right thing.


Jews from Europe who had moved from ancient Israel to live  around the world, just like lots of other people do, decided to return to their ancient homeland.

And they did.  They are doing the right thing, their rightful thing.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> The article was talking about, let us say, 100 to 500 years ago.  The Ottoman Empire.
> [/QUOTE
> 
> Horses have never been a thing in Palestine.. That's why the Scythians terrified them so.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Just what do the Schytinas have to do with Ancient Israel and horses being around other times, and with a region called Palestine?


"Modern day *descendants* are the Pashtuns of Afghanistan and Tajik people most probably, even though they are admixed to an extent and not 100% *Scythian* genetically, but they are the closest."

------------








						Scythian | People, History, & Facts
					

Scythian, also called Scyth, Saka, and Sacae,  member of a nomadic people, originally of Iranian stock, known from as early as the 9th century bce who migrated westward from Central Asia to southern Russia and Ukraine in the 8th and 7th centuries bce. The Scythians founded a rich, powerful...



					www.britannica.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

(Jewish life under Islam was more peaceful, and Jews were treated better by Muslims than they were in Europe by Christians.  At least, that is what Muslims have been saying the past 50 or more years )





I'm continuing on with my reading of the journey of Israel Joseph Benjamin in the middle of the 19th century.

Here is what he encountered in Erbil, in what is now the Kurdistan portion of Iraq:




> Erbil is divided into two parts ; of which the one lying on the mountain is the city, the other, in the vast plain is the seat of trade and industry. One hundred and fifty Jewish families dwell here whose Nassi is Mailum Mordecai; they are however mueh oppressed by the fanatic, rude and half civilized sects of Allah, of which I will relate some examples.
> 
> A short time before my arrival a Jewish girl emptying some dirty water into the street, accidentally besprinkled with it a Mussulman who happened to be passing by. Im- mediately a crowd assembled before the house, broke open the door, seized the girl, and heaped upon her all kinds of threatening abuse; asking her how she, the daughter of an accursed race, dare presume to insult a true believer. The girl defended herself to the best of her ability, but the leader of the uproar cried out to her:



(full article online)









						19th century Muslim Jew-hatred in Erbil, Kurdistan
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## danielpalos

It is understandable why the Romans had a problem with the Jews.  Why does anyone have a problem with Jews in modern times?  We have a First Amendment in the US.


----------



## Sixties Fan

> WHEN WE DISCUSS THE HOLOCAUST and Hitler’s slaughter of six million European Jews, we often forget the fact that the Holocaust had other victims as well, namely the Palestinians, whose country was taken from them. They were innocent victims as the world sought to make a place for Jews who had been displaced by the Nazi tyranny, and wished to do so in a way that did not involve inviting Jewish refugees into their own countries.






> The reason that the Palestinians may properly be seen as the final victims of the Holocaust is that growing anti-Semitism in Europe caused many Jews, who had previously opposed Zionism to begin to look positively upon the idea of creating a Jewish state in Palestine as a refuge for those being persecuted. Jewish organizations in the U.S. that had always opposed Zionism, slowly began to view it more favorably. Without Hitler, there would have been little support from Jews in the U.S. or Western Europe for the creation of a Jewish state. Without the Holocaust, the United Nations would have had little reason to establish the State of Israel.


What a grotesque argument. The Zionists argued that only a Jewish state could keep Jews safe, many Jews disagreed. After the Holocaust, it was clear that the Zionists were right, and countless Jews would have been saved if Israel existed ten years earlier.  Events proved that Jews cannot rely on the world to protect them.

Antisemitic jerks like author Allan Brownfeld want to bring things back to the good old days where Jews could be persecuted without recourse - and, worse, he says that Jews who have the nerve to want to exist in their own homeland are as bad as the Nazis are.

(full article online)









						Washington Report on Middle East Affairs says Palestinians are Holocaust victims
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

The first mention of the story comes from  Iraqi Islamic writer Mahmoud Sheet Khattab in his 1969 book “Arab Military Unity.” He wrote,  “When the Jews entered the city of Jerusalem on June 6, 1967, they were chanting in Al-Aqsa Mosque in Hebrew, with the meaning: Muhammad died, he died... He left daughters, and I listened to the silly joking, broadcasting a text from an Arab radio station, and commenting on it by the announcer, translating it to Arabic. Perhaps many Arabs and Muslims listened as I listened to that radio, and felt as I felt that a poisoned arrow hit my liver, which is bleeding blood, bitterness, sadness and pain.”

The story morphed. In a 1970 book by the same author, "Israel's Expansionist Objectives in the Arab Countries" Khattab wrote: 




> On June 6, 1967, Israel occupied the ancient city of Jerusalem. So the President of the Israeli State, the Prime Minister of Israel and the Ministers of Israel, led by the Israeli Chief Rabbi, proceeded to march towards the Western Wall, and there Moshe Dayan said: Today the road to the city is open.
> 
> The Jews desecrated the sanctity of Al-Aqsa Mosque by allowing the Israeli male and female soldiers to enter it wearing revealing clothes while they were drunk as if they were in bars or places of prostitution.
> 
> The Israeli army and the Jews violated the sanctity of Al-Aqsa Mosque. They were chanting in his courtyards on June 6, 1967: Muhammad died, he died... He left behind daughters!



Ameem points out the inconsistencies between these two stories as well as more embellishments that Khattab added in years later. He notes that the phrase "Mohammed dies, and left daughters" only rhymes in Arabic, not Hebrew (Mohammad mat wakhalf banat.) He mentions that it makes no sense for Israelis, who have had women in the army since 1948, would say anything disparaging about Mohammed having only daughters. He points out that if the phrase had been on Arabic radio then many Arabs would have condemned it immediately and not waited until 1969. 

Furthermore, Ameem points out, indeed Mohammed did die and leave behind only daughters. Why is that an insult to begin with? It only is insulting since Arabs do not regard women to be as important as men!

(full article online)









						An Arab debunks a stupid 1967 Temple Mount rumor
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## danielpalos

I always thought the Romans prefered to let the "natives" govern themselves and didn't really want to have to care what the natives were doing as long as they paid their taxes.  Why were the Romans so motivated to disperse "Jewish historians"?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Over 50 professors from CUNY have resigned from their faculty union, Professional Staff Congress (PSC-CUNY), in protest of the passage of a resolution condemning Israel, the _New York Post_ reported Sunday. Multiple professors were very upset by the controversial resolution, according to the _Post_.

“With the PSC-CUNY resolution you have chosen to support a terrorist organization, Hamas, whose goal (`From the River to the Sea’) is to destroy the state of Israel and kill all my relatives who live there,” one professor wrote in his resignation letter, according to the _Post_. 

"You do NOT represent us and I will not be a part of an organization that supports those who wish to destroy us,” the professor added.

The PSC-CUNY document, titled "Resolution in Support of the Palestinian People," opens by saying that "as an academic labor union committed to anti-racism, academic freedom, and international solidarity  among workers, the PSC-CUNY cannot be silent about the continued subjection of Palestinians to the state-supported displacement, occupation, and use of lethal force by Israel ."

The resolution refers to a "practice of dispossession and expansion of settlements, dating back to [Israel's] establishment as a settler colonial state." It also talks about what it calls Israel's "state-sponsored policies of settler colonialism," which it says "link the Palestinian struggle for self determination to the struggles of Indigenous people and people of color in the United States."

(full article online)









						CUNY union claimed 'Israel massacres Palestinians,' professors resign
					

Over 50 professors have resigned from the CUNY faculty union following a resolution that says Israel massacres Palestinians and to facilitate discussion of BDS support.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## danielpalos

We should be goading Israelis to come up with a solution worthy of children of God.  Ten simple Commandments not the Expense of Government on Earth!


----------



## Sixties Fan

An article in the _Guardian_ included interviews with a few residents of Efrat to gauge the views of Israelis living across the Green Line to the decision by the Vermont-based Ben & Jerry’s to end sales to the “Occupied Palestinian Territory”.

The piece (“‘It’s just ice-cream’: settlers’ chilly response to Ben & Jerry’s boycott”, July 23), written by their Middle East correspondent Bethan McKernan, included the following claim:



> Houses [in Efrat] are expensive, reflecting the high demand from Jerusalem commuters seeking a suburban lifestyle on land that once belonged to four Palestinian villages.









Efrat, via Wikimedia Commons


Briefly: Efrat, 20 kilometers south of Jerusalem, was founded in 1983, has around 11,500 residents, and is considered the capital of the Gush Etzion Regional Council, land that’s been predominantly owned andpopulated by Jews since decades prior to 1948.

Gush Etzion has been recognized in past Israeli-Palestinian negotiations as an area that would remain part of Israel in any future peace agreement.

Contrary to McKernan’s suggestion, Efrat was built on state land and some private Jewish land, a fact CAMERA-UK confirmed in a phone call with the city’s mayor, Oded Revivi.

He told us that when it was declared state land by Israeli authorities in the 1970s, it was based on a thorough review of land registries during Ottoman, British and Jordanian control of the territory, which determined that there was no private Palestinian land in the area.  So, the land in question has been state land going back hundreds of years.

(full article online)









						Guardian falsely suggests Efrat was built on Palestinian land
					

An article in the Guardian included interviews with a few residents of Efrat to gauge the views of Israelis living across the Green Line to the decision by the




					camera-uk.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

“The Munich massacre on 5 September 1972 is one of the darkest chapter’s [sic] in Olympic history.

Eleven members of the Israeli team were taken hostage inside the Olympic village by Palestinian gunmen from the Black September group.

Two were shot dead almost immediately, while the others were killed during a gun battle with West German police at a nearby airfield, as the militants tried to take them out of the country.”

Clearly that latter sentence does not communicate either the acts of torture carried out by the terrorists that have been known for over six years or the incompetence of the German security forces. It also tells readers nothing about the terrorist group responsible for the atrocity and its associations.

As is well known, the BBC’s editorial guidelines encourage the use of euphemisms such as ‘gunman’ and ‘militant’, claiming that “[t]he word ‘terrorist’ itself can be a barrier rather than an aid to understanding”. It is nevertheless odd that although after nearly half a century the corporation is finally prepared to accurately define the Munich Olympics massacre as a terrorist attack, it still refrains from describing the perpetrators as terrorists.

(full article online)









						Munich Olympics massacre perpetrators still euphemised by the BBC
					

Late on the evening of July 23rd (UK time) the BBC News website published a report about the first official commemoration for the Israeli athletes murdered at t




					camera-uk.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Davila, who serves as a student equity program adviser at the TDSB, had sent anti-Israel materials to educators and colleagues at the board, including texts referring to Israel as a colonizer, a truly defamatory claim to make about the world’s only Jewish State, home to millions of Jews living in their ancestral and historic homeland.

But that is far from the worst offense committed by Davila.

In addition to de-legitimizing Israel and sending materials promoting a boycott of the Jewish State, Davila sent literature to his email list, explicitly sharing work by well-known members of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), Laila Khaled, and Ghassan Kanafani.

After it became public that Davila was sending these materials, the school board rightfully spoke out against his actions, and launched an investigation.

But only a few weeks later, incredibly and incomprehensibly, the TDSB reinstated Davila.

The PFLP is a banned terrorist organization in Canada, and it is illegal to donate to, or fundraise for them, but it is not illegal, apparently, at least in the eyes of the TDSB, or of Shree Paradkar, to share their hateful propaganda among educators.






Excerpts of the materials sent by Davila (pictured right) to his colleagues includes unabashed lies about Israel, and apparent glorification of terrorism against Israelis. Here is one excerpt:“Palestinian resistance is the only barrier stopping the Zionists from completely fulfilling their mission to annihilate the Palestinian people as a whole.”

That is far from the only deeply problematic excerpt. Another line includes this chilling glorification of violence: “Just as a New African should not be expected to make peace with a white racist, it is absurd to think that Palestinians should be motivated to make peace with their oppressors while Zionist colonizers still occupy Palestinian land…Palestinians have been legitimately resisting racism, colonization, and genocide….to the present day by any means necessary…armed struggle, and martyrdom operations (called “suicide bombing” by Zionists).”

(full article online)









						Toronto Star Scribe Ignored How TDSB Employee Shared Materials Venerating Palestinian Terror Group
					

For the second time, Shree Paradkar has covered the story of Toronto District School Board (TDSB) employee Javier Davila (“TDSB




					honestreporting.ca


----------



## Sixties Fan

These leaders believe if they can disconnect Jewish history from the Land of Israel, they can justify their violent struggle. Their goal is to convince the world that the conflict is about colonialism, “apartheid” or “occupation.” 

If they admit the Jews had a civilization on this land 3,000 years ago before Arabs conquered it, their argument falls apart. Obviously, no indigenous people—as the Jews clearly are—can occupy or colonize its own territory.

A recent example of this is the uncovering of a section of Jerusalem’s city wall, built some 2,700 years ago during the First Temple era and mostly destroyed by the Babylonian army in 586 BCE. This finding is another piece of the puzzle, proving not only that Jewish history in the land stretches back millennia, but is also entirely consistent with ancient Jewish sources and religious texts.

Since such an archeological find is devastating to Palestinian mythology, it was no surprise that their reaction came fast. Hamas spokesman Muhammad Hamadeh said, “The aggression of the occupation did not stop at the limits of falsifying history. Rather, it seeks to change the reality. The announcement of these alleged discoveries comes in conjunction with the normalization agreements that gave it an international cover.”

Palestinian leaders have consistently disputed any historic Jewish connection to Israel in general and Jerusalem in particular. In the early 1900s, murderous mass Arab riots against Jews were largely motivated by accusations that Jews were “Judaizing” Jerusalem and other holy sites. These were the rallying calls of Hitler’s friend and colleague, Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini.

This lie continues. Jerusalem expert Nadav Shragai reports, “[Palestinian Authority leader] Mahmoud Abbas’s religious-affairs adviser, Mahmoud al-Habash, asserted that ‘Jewish Jerusalem is a legend’; former Palestinian Prime Minister Abu Ala declared that a gold medallion discovered in an archeological dig at the Southern Wall of the Temple Mount, notable for its classic Jewish symbols such as a menorah, a shofar and a Torah scroll, is just a forgery; Adnan al-Husseini, the Palestinian Authority minister for Jerusalem affairs, has stated that ‘Israel has a policy of ‘Judaization’ and ‘fabrication,’ whose aim is to invent a Jewish connection with Jerusalem.” 

Abbas has used similar themes as a rallying cry to incite riots on the Temple Mount and its environs. Last year, the P.A. produced a TV filler of Abbas again denying Israel’s history in Jerusalem, saying Palestinians must “confront the [Israeli] plots that are being woven against it to forge its identity and to change its character.” 



(full article online)









						The Palestinian war on Israel is a war on truth
					

If the Palestinian leadership were to admit that the Jews had a civilization on this land 3,000 years ago—before Arabs conquered it—their entire narrative would fall apart.




					www.jns.org


----------



## Mindful

Yossef Garfinkel of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem says in his opinion the 3,100 year old pottery dates back to the time of the Jewish King David.

And still, in spite of all the mountains of archeological evidence, Arabs - who invaded the region in the 7th century AD - claim that Jews have no connection to Israel.
Right......














						Israeli archaeologists find 3,100-year-old inscription linked to book of Judges
					

Israeli archaeologists excavating in the Judean foothills have uncovered an extremely rare 3,100-year-old inscription from the era of the biblical judges and carrying a name from the Book of Judges.




					www.christianpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Though Palestinian Sheikh Jarrah ‘activist’ Mohammed el-Kurd claims he has no problem with Jews, as we’ve previously demonsrated, the record shows he’s a racist ideologue in every sense of the term.

During an interview with MSNBC that he retweeted, he argued that _all Israelis are the same_, ‘they’re all terrorists’. He’s written that Jews who live across the Green Line are “psychotic” and “rabid dogs”. He’s also peddled the historically lethal lie that Jews are threatening to destroy al-Aqsa, and even claimed there’s no archaeological evidence that the 1st and 2nd Temples existed.

On Twitter, he said it’s “psychotic” to ask Palestinians to refrain from violence, praised a PFLP terrorist, compared Israeli actions to that of the Nazis, characterised Zionism as inherently genocidal and retweeted (and praised as ‘eloquent’) a video of the late Kwame Ture accusing Zionism of being a “Satanic movement”.

----
As reports made clear, Smotrich didn’t “barge into” his family’s house.  He merely visited the neighborhood. Even the pro-Hamas site MEMO didn’t claim that Smotrich “barged into” Kurds house.

Then, mirroring the rhetoric of extremists who reject Israel’s existence, even within 1949 boundaries, Kurd characterises the situation in Sheikh Jarrah as “a perfect illustration of settler colonialism.. across 73 years of Zionist rule”.

Describing Israel, since its rebirth in 1948, as a “settler colonial state”, implies that all Israelis are “settlers”, and falsely suggests that Jews have no historical connection to the land – an assertion, we noted earlier, Kurd himself tweeted – and that Zionism is racist and morally illegitimate.  It also negates the historical reality that most pre-state Zionists arrived as refugees, escaping racism and mass murder in Europe – not, as Kurd would have you believe, as conquerors seeking to extend their (of course, non-existent) territory.

(full article online)









						Guardian op-ed by Mohammed el-Kurd on Sheikh Jarrah: Nearly fact-free.
					

Though Palestinian Sheikh Jarrah 'activist' Mohammed el-Kurd claims he has no problem with Jews, as we've previously demonsrated, the record shows he's a ra




					camera-uk.org


----------



## Sinajuavi

abi said:


> There is no such thing as "Jewish land."
> 
> 
> It was almost entirely Muslim and Christian for the last 1000 years before the zionists came from another continent.
> 
> 
> NOT A NEWS SOURCE! That site is a blog and vomits out the zionist narrative that only the most blind will latch on to.
> 
> 
> It appears that the wall you worship at is actually the wall of a Roman fort. Indee even admitted this. He claimed this is known and has been for some time.
> 
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.
> 
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.
> 
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.
> 
> 
> This is what the zionists do and every time the world votes it is a landslide against your fascist leaders.
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.


Your Jew-hating rhetoric is unacceptable. There is in fact "Jewish land", just as there is "Cambodian land" or "Dutch land". Your notion is that the Jewish ethnic group has no right to its land, or even to its existence. That is why you are in so many files in so many agencies... it may not even be Mossad about which you should worry.


----------



## Sinajuavi

abi said:


> I didn't see him say that, but okay. Still no temple on the mount.


But there will be...


----------



## Sinajuavi

fanger said:


> The Topic is
> *Jewish History, most of which is invented*


When did raving antisemitic trash become historians? Certainly y'all have nothing to say about history.

Jewish history is obviously real. The ancient Hebrews show up in the writings and monuments of various other contemporary peoples, including Egyptians.

If it's history you like, check out the history of the Nazi Hajj Amin al-Husseinni, creator of the "Palestinian" nation and cause. What a guy!


----------



## Sixties Fan

(How to twist a quote )


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sinajuavi said:


> Your Jew-hating rhetoric is unacceptable. There is in fact "Jewish land",


No such place ever existed

(Gen 45:21 KJV) _*And the children of Israel did so:* and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way._

(Gen 47:1 KJV) _*Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.*_

(Gen 47:3 KJV) _And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, *What is your occupation?* And they said unto Pharaoh, *Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.*_


Sinajuavi said:


> s... it may not even be Mossad about which you should worry.


If that is a threat, stick it -


----------



## Sixties Fan

When the Jewish community raised their voices in concern, Wilt doubled down. She spoke at an anti-Israel rally (43.25) where the speaker before her told a ridiculous story that there are separate checkpoints in Gaza with signs for Jews and non-Jews. Wilt herself gave herself a pat on the back, saying that she supports Palestine even though there are lots of Jewish voters in town. (That part was edited out.) 

She, and other town board members, attended a Zoom session against antisemitism, and Wilt showed not the slightest amount of empathy for Jews nor regret for how uncomfortable she made her Jewish constituents feel.

Which brings us to the town hall that was in Brighton last week. 

For hours, there were Jews arguing that they have a right to be upset at Wilt while Wilt's supporters argued that the Jews were racists and white supremacists for attacking her. As usual, the lies from the pro-Palestinian contingent were legendary, like Israel has expelled 1500 residents of Sheikh Jarrah to build a theme park.  

When Jews spoke, they were routinely interrupted and shouted at. 

At the end, when Wilt spoke, she made herself into the victim and again took no responsibility for hurting a large number of residents of Brighton with her words.

But the story isn't an idiot councilmember who opposes Jewish nationhood. It is the many people who felt comfortable publicly attacking Jews as racists and baby-killers. The town hall has made the Jews of Brighton even more uneasy and feeling under attack than they were beforehand. The councilmembers seemed to listen, but no one on the other side in the audience (from the portions I watched) showed any empathy, instead many of them played the victim card themselves as they attacked the Jews, as if someone who is Black cannot possibly have done any wrong.

(full article online)









						The antisemites come out in a town hall in Brighton, NY
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

(The Right to Wipe out Israel from the world map)

A fake travel agency advertisement stating “Come visit Jerusalem Palestine” that was sent to suburban Cleveland, Ohio residents has caused distress among the city’s Jewish community.

The ad purported to be from “Acherman Tourism, LLC.” and included a fake phone number with a 213 Los Angeles area code. It featured a map of Israel labelled “Palestine” alongside a photo of the Al Aqsa Mosque.

At the bottom is a man’s face captioned “Contact Mo Dayem for more information.”

(full article online)









						Fake 'Come visit Jerusalem Palestine' ad mailed to Cleveland homes
					

Phony travel ad that erases Israel sent to residents in Cleveland suburbs, leaving Jewish residents concerned.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

He is cheering the murder of over 250 Jews during the first intifada. Moreover, people don't realize that Palestinians killed hundreds of fellow Palestinians during that innocent sounding "uprising."

This is what he celebrates.




> Another time-honored product stocked at Jerusalem Rose is Nabulsi olive oil soap. Once the site of a booming soap industry of over 40 soapmakers, there are now only two factories left in the West Bank making soap with a thousand year-old technique. The rest were tragically decimated by a large-scale Israeli military operation in 2002, which also resulted in the severe damage or destruction of 64 UNESCO heritage buildings.


Two baldfaced lies in one sentence. 

Israel didn't destroy 38 soap factories in Nablus - one was damaged and it was rebuilt. The others closed over the decades because of no demand for their product.

Israel didn't destroy 64 UNESCO heritage buildings. It damaged buildings in Nablus' Old City that were being used by terrorists, another small detail that is missing. Some of the damage came from Palestinian fighters placing explosives between the buildings there as booby traps. 

It turns out that this store really does market Palestinian culture. Lying about history and about Israel is Palestinian culture.

The Center for Study and Preservation of Palestine next door shows this to be the case, as there is nothing in the window that indicates anything about Palestinian cuisine, costumes, soap, or history - only anti-Israel (and BLM) posters.

(full article online)









						In Portland, a store is opened to sell Palestinian "culture" - anti-Israel propaganda
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

*The destruction of the Jewish Temple is a “myth” - PA TV’s “Israeli affairs expert”*​
*Jewish history in Jerusalem “has no basis other than in their heads that are full of legends and fantasies” - PA TV*​
*“No archaeological existence of their alleged Temple has been proven” – PA TV*​
*“The Israel Antiquities Authority… put together a story and invented a narrative that suits their lies” – PA TV*​
*“[Jews have] no religious, historical, or legal right over any inch of occupied Jerusalem,” – Abbas’ advisor on Islam*​
*“[Jews’ visiting the Temple Mount] is dragging the region into a religious war that will burn the entire region,” - Abbas’ spokesman*​

(full article online)









						PA leaders continue to deny existence of Jewish Temples | PMW Analysis
					

Jewish history in Jerusalem “has no basis other than in their heads that are full of legends and fantasies” - PA TV




					palwatch.org


----------



## Viktor

abi said:


> Archaeology and the zionist narrative



CHRONICLE OF PALESTINIAN TERRORISM

Redirecting to Google Groups

Did Israel Evict The Palestinians? Arab sources say NO

REPOST-Did Israel Evict the Palestinians?

Palestinian Rocket Attacks on israel

Lists of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel - Wikipedia


The Charter of HAMAS:

Redirecting to Google Groups

Read article 13. They are opposed to any peace treaty with Israel.

HAMAS LIED ABOUT CASUALTIES IN GAZA

Hamas Lied About Gaza War





HAMAS CONFISCATES FOOD RELIEF



UN halts aid into Gaza after 'Hamas steals' thousands of tonnes of aid



HAMAS STEALS AID MONEY, GIVES IT TO TERRORISTS



less than a minute (3:50 AM)


http://www.westernjournalism.com/ha...f-millions-for-terrorists-from-christian-ngo/
less than a minute (3:50 AM)











FATAH LEADER CALLS FOR ISRAEL'S DESTRUCTION

Fatah leader: Fatah's goal is to destroy Israel; Palestine is from the "river to the sea" | PMW Analysis

The New Hezbollah Manifesto

http://www.lebanonrenaissance.org/assets/Uploads/15-The-New-Hezbollah-Manifesto-Nov09.pdf

See sections 2 and 3.

Taquiyyah-Holy Deception Ordered by the Koran



Taqiyya, holy deception, Qur’an 5:32

Yasser Arafat already admitted that he was practicing deception when he signed the Oslo Accords.

Jordanian Civil War

1969-70 Palestine Liberation Organization attempts a military takeover of Jordan, blows up 4 civilian airliners and tries to assassinate King Hussein

Black September - Wikipedia


Palestinian Authority Pays Families to Blow Their Children Up in Israel.

Families of suicide bombers given £5m in British aid cash


----------



## Sixties Fan

The failure to understand the nature and meaning of Palestinianism led to the Oslo Accords, which legitimized it, granted the PLO a quasi-state and divided Judea and Samaria into Palestinian-controlled areas under the PA/PLO and those under Israeli control. The issue of “settlements” remains controversial in Israel and other countries. There is no question, however, that Judea and Samaria – according to archeologists – contain thousands of Jewish historical sites, many as yet unexplored and unexcavated. There are no “Palestinian” historical sites in this area, or anywhere else, because “Palestinian identity” is a recent phenomenon, contrived to oppose Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people. 

Many consider the presence of Jews in Judea and Samaria to be “illegal under international law.” The “law,” however, has never been clarified, or determined. The claim is accepted as fact without proof. Nevertheless, support for a Palestinian state as part of a “peace process” is and has been the policy of every Israeli government for four decades. This explains why Israeli hasbara (advocacy) has failed, and why many, including those who consider themselves to be pro-Israel, are confused; it is why many have turned against Israel. 

A major source of confusion is the International Committee of the Red Cross, which determined that Israel’s presence in Judea, Samaria and eastern Jerusalem violated the Fourth Geneva Convention, calling it “occupied Palestinian territory.” The ICRC also decided that the Golan Heights belonged to Syria. The ICRC’s arbitrary decision is considered to be “the law,” and was adopted by the UN and other international organizations. It has never been debated, and is not subject to review. 

“End the occupation” and “free Palestine” are Palestinian mantras and the core of Palestinianism, part of a long-term agenda to create a Palestinian state “from the river to the sea.” It begins with a PLO (or Hamas) state in Judea, Samaria and eastern Jerusalem; it ends with Israel’s demise. Sadly, it’s dangerous and destructive and it’s immoral, but it’s the reality. And one should never argue with reality. 

(full article online)









						The immoral goals of Palestinianism - Opinion
					

The ideology of Palestinianism is that Israel is a “settler, colonial state” on Palestinian land, which oppresses Palestinians and has no right to exist.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

(Facts Matter )

Following communication with CAMERA Arabic, CNN’s Arabic website corrected two reports that had charged Jewish visitors to the Temple Mount with “storming” the al-Aqsa Mosque. The reports, which covered the July 18 Tish’a B’Av events on Jerusalem’s Temple Mount, were corrected on July 28, CNN confirmed in its reply to CAMERA.

The first report, originally entitled “Settlers Intrude the al-Aqsa Mosque – Clashes between the Israeli Police and Palestinians,” was completely rewritten, mainly in accordance with the corresponding CNN report in English. Thus, CNN replaced references to “settlers” with ones to “religious Jews” and the verb “to intrude1” with “to enter.” The phrases “al-Aqsa Mosque” and “al-Aqsa Mosque plaza” were replaced with “the Jerusalem Sanctuary Complex, known to Jews as Temple Mount.”

The corrected now headline reads: “Religious Jews enter the Jerusalem Sanctuary Complex in the Destruction of the Temple Anniversary.”

Additionally, a photo implying that the events took place indoors (hence suggesting that a “mosque intrusion” did occur), was replaced with one reflecting the fact that all Jews stayed outside buildings throughout their entire visit.

(full article online)









						CNN Arabic Corrects: 'Settlers Storming the Mosque' Becomes 'Jews Entering the Sanctuary'
					

Following communication with CAMERA Arabic, CNN’s Arabic website corrected two reports that had charged Jewish visitors to the Temple Mount with 'storming' the al-Aqsa




					www.camera.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

t was against this backdrop that Amin al-Husseini held a March 4, 1961, press conference in Beirut. The Mufti, CIA cables reveal, “categorically denied any connection with the persecution of Jews in Germany during the Second World War.” He claimed that “all allegations in this respect were baseless and they were prompted by Zionists’ enmity toward him and the Palestinian national movement.”

The Mufti also distributed a statement in response to a recent book on Eichmann by the American journalist Quentin Reynolds, which alleged that Husseini had several contacts with the SS officer and had toured Nazi death camps. Husseini “said that he did not know Eichmann and that he had no connection whatsoever with him.” Further, “neither he nor any other Arab had plans in the past or at present to annihilate any race, Jews or others.” Husseini closed out the press conference by asserting that “what the Jews have done” in Israel “is similar to what the Nazis did to them in Germany” — a libel that is still echoed by antisemites today.

Husseini’s press conference was replete with lies.

Husseini was well aware of Hitler’s plans for European Jewry. Indeed, he hoped to replicate them in the Middle East.

In his own memoirs, the Mufti recorded a November 28, 1941, meeting with Hitler: “Our fundamental condition for cooperating with Germany was a free hand to eradicate every last Jew from Palestine and the Arab world. I asked Hitler for an explicit undertaking to allow us to solve the Jewish problem in a manner befitting our national and racial aspirations and according to the scientific methods innovated by Germany in the handling of its Jews.”

“The answer I got was: ‘The Jews are yours.’”

Many apologists, journalists, and academics spent decades denying that Husseini visited concentration camps, but in 2017, conclusive photographic evidence emerged showing Husseini touring the Trebbin camp near Berlin.

“The photographs,” the historian Wolfgang Schwanitz wrote in Tablet magazine, “provide irrefutable proof” that Husseini “had precise knowledge of the fate of Jews in Hitler’s Germany.” It is also possible that the Mufti visited other camps while in Poland.

Husseini’s claim about Eichmann was similarly a lie.

As Schwanitz and the late historian Barry Rubin detailed in “Nazis, Islamists and the Making of the Modern Middle East,” on December 4, 1941, Eichmann took Husseini “into the map room at the Reich Main Security Office’s Jewish Affairs division to explain how Germany would solve the Jewish question.” This, it should be noted, was before the Wannsee Conference, which officially determined the fate of European Jewry. Husseini even “asked Eichmann to send an expert — probably Dieter Wisliceny — to Jerusalem to be his own personal adviser for setting up death camps and gas chambers once Germany won the war and he was in power.”

Indeed, Husseini had begun his outreach to Germany shortly after the Nazis came to power. And, on October 2, 1937, the Nazis dispatched a then-obscure official to Haifa to meet Husseini. His name was Adolf Eichmann. The British were suspicious, and Eichmann was put on a ship to Egypt, but he nonetheless managed to meet with Husseini’s representatives and aides in Cairo.

Husseini even came to Eichmann’s aid after World War II. As Schwanitz and Rubin note, “Husseini sent his emissary, Husain Haurani, in October 1949 to give Eichmann’s wife, Veronica, money so she and their children could join her husband in Argentina.”

This fact illustrates the depths of Husseini’s hubris: he not only knew Eichmann, but he played a key role in helping the Nazi war criminal.

Eichmann himself would be executed by Israel in 1962. Hitler’s Mufti, however, would escape justice, dying in 1974. But his legacy of virulent antisemitism lives on.

(full article online)









						When Hitler’s Mufti Gave a Press Conference
					

The mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, meets with Adolf Hitler in 1941. Photo: German Federal Archives via Wikimedia Commons. …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Just what do the Schytinas have to do with Ancient Israel and horses being around other times, and with a region called Palestine?
> 
> 
> "Modern day *descendants* are the Pashtuns of Afghanistan and Tajik people most probably, even though they are admixed to an extent and not 100% *Scythian* genetically, but they are the closest."
> 
> ------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scythian | People, History, & Facts
> 
> 
> Scythian, also called Scyth, Saka, and Sacae,  member of a nomadic people, originally of Iranian stock, known from as early as the 9th century bce who migrated westward from Central Asia to southern Russia and Ukraine in the 8th and 7th centuries bce. The Scythians founded a rich, powerful...
> 
> 
> 
> www.britannica.com



Scythians were Gog and Magog. Not many horses in Palestine. Some Roman officers had horses. What made the Scythians so dangerous is they were excellent riders and could shoot bow and arrow from horseback..

That made them swift and silent  ... like locusts.

Pashtuns believe they are descended from the tribe of Benjamin.

Temple Mount has been the Haram al Sharif for 1300 years,


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> t was against this backdrop that Amin al-Husseini held a March 4, 1961, press conference in Beirut. The Mufti, CIA cables reveal, “categorically denied any connection with the persecution of Jews in Germany during the Second World War.” He claimed that “all allegations in this respect were baseless and they were prompted by Zionists’ enmity toward him and the Palestinian national movement.”
> 
> The Mufti also distributed a statement in response to a recent book on Eichmann by the American journalist Quentin Reynolds, which alleged that Husseini had several contacts with the SS officer and had toured Nazi death camps. Husseini “said that he did not know Eichmann and that he had no connection whatsoever with him.” Further, “neither he nor any other Arab had plans in the past or at present to annihilate any race, Jews or others.” Husseini closed out the press conference by asserting that “what the Jews have done” in Israel “is similar to what the Nazis did to them in Germany” — a libel that is still echoed by antisemites today.
> 
> Husseini’s press conference was replete with lies.
> 
> Husseini was well aware of Hitler’s plans for European Jewry. Indeed, he hoped to replicate them in the Middle East.
> 
> In his own memoirs, the Mufti recorded a November 28, 1941, meeting with Hitler: “Our fundamental condition for cooperating with Germany was a free hand to eradicate every last Jew from Palestine and the Arab world. I asked Hitler for an explicit undertaking to allow us to solve the Jewish problem in a manner befitting our national and racial aspirations and according to the scientific methods innovated by Germany in the handling of its Jews.”
> 
> “The answer I got was: ‘The Jews are yours.’”
> 
> Many apologists, journalists, and academics spent decades denying that Husseini visited concentration camps, but in 2017, conclusive photographic evidence emerged showing Husseini touring the Trebbin camp near Berlin.
> 
> “The photographs,” the historian Wolfgang Schwanitz wrote in Tablet magazine, “provide irrefutable proof” that Husseini “had precise knowledge of the fate of Jews in Hitler’s Germany.” It is also possible that the Mufti visited other camps while in Poland.
> 
> Husseini’s claim about Eichmann was similarly a lie.
> 
> As Schwanitz and the late historian Barry Rubin detailed in “Nazis, Islamists and the Making of the Modern Middle East,” on December 4, 1941, Eichmann took Husseini “into the map room at the Reich Main Security Office’s Jewish Affairs division to explain how Germany would solve the Jewish question.” This, it should be noted, was before the Wannsee Conference, which officially determined the fate of European Jewry. Husseini even “asked Eichmann to send an expert — probably Dieter Wisliceny — to Jerusalem to be his own personal adviser for setting up death camps and gas chambers once Germany won the war and he was in power.”
> 
> Indeed, Husseini had begun his outreach to Germany shortly after the Nazis came to power. And, on October 2, 1937, the Nazis dispatched a then-obscure official to Haifa to meet Husseini. His name was Adolf Eichmann. The British were suspicious, and Eichmann was put on a ship to Egypt, but he nonetheless managed to meet with Husseini’s representatives and aides in Cairo.
> 
> Husseini even came to Eichmann’s aid after World War II. As Schwanitz and Rubin note, “Husseini sent his emissary, Husain Haurani, in October 1949 to give Eichmann’s wife, Veronica, money so she and their children could join her husband in Argentina.”
> 
> This fact illustrates the depths of Husseini’s hubris: he not only knew Eichmann, but he played a key role in helping the Nazi war criminal.
> 
> Eichmann himself would be executed by Israel in 1962. Hitler’s Mufti, however, would escape justice, dying in 1974. But his legacy of virulent antisemitism lives on.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Hitler’s Mufti Gave a Press Conference
> 
> 
> The mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, meets with Adolf Hitler in 1941. Photo: German Federal Archives via Wikimedia Commons. …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.algemeiner.com



The Mufti was appointed by the British.. Palestine had already sheltered 600,000 European Jews doubling the population in the 1920s and 30s.


----------



## Sixties Fan

When Shlaim published an “Updated and Expanded” edition of The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World (W. W. Norton & Co.) in 2014, he once again, and still without offering a source, included a story (pp. 3-4) featuring the phrase “The bride is beautiful, but she is married to another man.” He made, however, one change. Shlaim now, without explanation, referred to it as “an apocryphal story”: “After the Basel Congress, according to an apocryphal story, the rabbis of Vienna decided to explore Herzl’s ideas and sent two representatives to Palestine.” Even so, Shlaim went on to discuss the story as though it were factual and not apocryphal.



And as for Marrouchi’s 2011 article “Cry No More for Me, Palestine—Mahmoud Darwish,” which has been retracted by College Literature for plagiarism, Marrouchi still proudly mentions it among his “several works of literary criticism” in the third-person biography presented on his website.



Such is the state of scholarship, journalism, and filmmaking on Jewish and Israeli history.



Many Jews were aware in the early years of the Zionist movement that there was a significant, although small, Arab population in the Land of Israel/Palestine relative to its then Jewish population. Moreover, Zionists realized that much of the Arab population did not want Jews to immigrate to the Land of Israel/Palestine or to reestablish a Jewish state there. Believing the land to be their national heritage, and the Jews its indigenous people, they were undeterred. There is no need to resort to contrived tales in order to demonstrate those points.



Nonetheless, the anti-Zionist potential inherent in stories containing the phrase “The bride is beautiful, but she is married to another man” makes them irresistible to many historians, journalists, and filmmakers, and accounts for much of the stories’ enduring popularity, despite an apparent lack of historical veracity. Historians, journalists, and filmmakers have been willing to put aside basic scholarly standards in attempting to advance their anti-Zionist arguments.

(full article online)









						The bride is beautiful: An irresistible anti-Zionist story
					

The abysmal state of scholarship, journalism, and filmmaking on Jewish and Israeli history is encapsulated in this fabricated story. Op-ed.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

(Reasons why the British appointed Al Husseini as Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.  And it was not because they liked him or saw him as a good leader )

In April 1920, the victorious Allied powers convened in San Remo, Italy, to negotiate a peace treaty with Turkey, which had fought on the defeated Axis side during the First World War. As a direct result, Britain was handed the mandate for Palestine, previously a domain of the Ottoman Empire, with the understanding that London would now make good on its commitment to a “Jewish national home” as underlined by the Balfour Declaration of November 1917.​However, British military officers in the field were already casting an anxious eye on Palestine’s Arab inhabitants. While one leading Jerusalem clan, the Nashashibis, was in favor of a more conciliatory policy, their main rivals, the al-Husseinis, were agitating for violent conflict with both the Jewish community and the British.

In 1919, Haj Amin al-Husseini, a prominent scion of the clan, began organizing small groups of terrorists to harass and attack Palestine’s Jews. One year later, as the Allies were deliberating at San Remo, al-Husseini instigated anti-Jewish riots in Jerusalem during the intermediate days of the Passover festival. Six Jews were murdered and more than 200 wounded during an orgy of destruction.

Given al-Husseini’s role in encouraging the violence, the British arrested him. But one year later, newly-installed British High Commissioner Herbert Samuel, eager to dampen down tensions, pardoned al-Husseini and appointed him to the post of Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. This act, Samuel said, would ensure “that the influences of his family and himself would be devoted to tranquility.”

Samuel could not have been more wrong. As a direct consequence of Britain’s empowerment of him as Mufti, al-Husseini was emboldened in pursuing the aim of violently removing the Jewish presence in Palestine. Over the following two decades, al-Husseini’s hardened anti-Semitic worldview, together with his determination to extinguish any prospect of the Balfour Declaration’s promise from being realized, made him a natural Middle Eastern ally of Germany’s Nazi regime once it launched its war of conquest and genocide in 1939.

(full article online)









						How the Mufti of Jerusalem Created the Permanent Problem of Palestinian Violence - The Tower
					

How did Arab opposition to a Jewish state become so absolute and violent? EDY COHEN looks at Haj Amin Al-Husseini, one of the central figures in creating a conflict for the ages.




					www.thetower.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

The first day of the festival had sessions on LGBTQ+, wind energy and Greek history. The second day featured the Palestinian envoy to Greece to give an anti-Israel speech. 

The speech by Marwan Toubassi was filled with clear lies and incitement against Israel as well as pure antisemitism.

He said:




> I come from a land where 100,000 Palestinians have been killed since 1948 and 1 million Palestinians have been imprisoned in Israel since 1967 and 1.5 million have been displaced from their homes and land. I come from a country where more than 60 organized massacres have taken place since the founding of the colonial state of Israel.
> 
> I come from a country that suffers from an ongoing holocaust.



Literally every word is a lie, and the use of the word "holocaust" is by any definition antisemitic.

But the Jew-hatred doesn't end there.




> On this occasion, I would also like to mention some excerpts from the book by the President of the State of Palestine, Mahmoud Abbas, entitled "The Zionist Movement in Lenin's Writings", the first edition of which was published in 1979 and the second in 2011.
> 
> "Lenin believed that the continued exploitation of the Jewish question was in the interest of colonialism and that it achieved the goals of the Zionist movement, which feeds on this issue, moves it and benefits from it."
> 
> He goes on to say, "If world leaders had followed Lenin's example in their assessment and handling of the Jewish question, there would have been no Zionist movement and no colonial state of Israel, because, in short, Lenin believed that Jews they are not a nation and they do not have the components of a nation and they should live in the societies in which they existed hundreds or even thousands of years ago. "Lenin did not accept the declaration of separation between colonialism and imperialism on the one hand, and the Zionist movement on the other. "


Toubassi is quoting Mahmoud Abbas' book saying that the Jews aren't a people and they should not have a state. 

Denying Jewish peoplehood is antisemitism, and in this case it is part of a demand that Jews in the Middle East always remain as second class citizens under Muslim rule.

(full article online)









						Palestinian envoy to Greece spouts antisemitism at an "anti-racism" festival
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> t was against this backdrop that Amin al-Husseini held a March 4, 1961, press conference in Beirut. The Mufti, CIA cables reveal, “categorically denied any connection with the persecution of Jews in Germany during the Second World War.” He claimed that “all allegations in this respect were baseless and they were prompted by Zionists’ enmity toward him and the Palestinian national movement.”
> 
> The Mufti also distributed a statement in response to a recent book on Eichmann by the American journalist Quentin Reynolds, which alleged that Husseini had several contacts with the SS officer and had toured Nazi death camps. Husseini “said that he did not know Eichmann and that he had no connection whatsoever with him.” Further, “neither he nor any other Arab had plans in the past or at present to annihilate any race, Jews or others.” Husseini closed out the press conference by asserting that “what the Jews have done” in Israel “is similar to what the Nazis did to them in Germany” — a libel that is still echoed by antisemites today.
> 
> Husseini’s press conference was replete with lies.
> 
> Husseini was well aware of Hitler’s plans for European Jewry. Indeed, he hoped to replicate them in the Middle East.
> 
> In his own memoirs, the Mufti recorded a November 28, 1941, meeting with Hitler: “Our fundamental condition for cooperating with Germany was a free hand to eradicate every last Jew from Palestine and the Arab world. I asked Hitler for an explicit undertaking to allow us to solve the Jewish problem in a manner befitting our national and racial aspirations and according to the scientific methods innovated by Germany in the handling of its Jews.”
> 
> “The answer I got was: ‘The Jews are yours.’”
> 
> Many apologists, journalists, and academics spent decades denying that Husseini visited concentration camps, but in 2017, conclusive photographic evidence emerged showing Husseini touring the Trebbin camp near Berlin.
> 
> “The photographs,” the historian Wolfgang Schwanitz wrote in Tablet magazine, “provide irrefutable proof” that Husseini “had precise knowledge of the fate of Jews in Hitler’s Germany.” It is also possible that the Mufti visited other camps while in Poland.
> 
> Husseini’s claim about Eichmann was similarly a lie.
> 
> As Schwanitz and the late historian Barry Rubin detailed in “Nazis, Islamists and the Making of the Modern Middle East,” on December 4, 1941, Eichmann took Husseini “into the map room at the Reich Main Security Office’s Jewish Affairs division to explain how Germany would solve the Jewish question.” This, it should be noted, was before the Wannsee Conference, which officially determined the fate of European Jewry. Husseini even “asked Eichmann to send an expert — probably Dieter Wisliceny — to Jerusalem to be his own personal adviser for setting up death camps and gas chambers once Germany won the war and he was in power.”
> 
> Indeed, Husseini had begun his outreach to Germany shortly after the Nazis came to power. And, on October 2, 1937, the Nazis dispatched a then-obscure official to Haifa to meet Husseini. His name was Adolf Eichmann. The British were suspicious, and Eichmann was put on a ship to Egypt, but he nonetheless managed to meet with Husseini’s representatives and aides in Cairo.
> 
> Husseini even came to Eichmann’s aid after World War II. As Schwanitz and Rubin note, “Husseini sent his emissary, Husain Haurani, in October 1949 to give Eichmann’s wife, Veronica, money so she and their children could join her husband in Argentina.”
> 
> This fact illustrates the depths of Husseini’s hubris: he not only knew Eichmann, but he played a key role in helping the Nazi war criminal.
> 
> Eichmann himself would be executed by Israel in 1962. Hitler’s Mufti, however, would escape justice, dying in 1974. But his legacy of virulent antisemitism lives on.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Hitler’s Mufti Gave a Press Conference
> 
> 
> The mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, meets with Adolf Hitler in 1941. Photo: German Federal Archives via Wikimedia Commons. …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.algemeiner.com



In recent years its become very popular for Zionists to blame the Mufti rather than Hitler and the German people.. They think it justifies what they have done to the Palestinians. Between 1920 and 1935 600,000 European Jews moved  to Palestine where the organize terror groups, carried out false flag operations like the bombing of the king David hotel and killed British peacekeepers.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> In recent years its become very popular for Zionists to blame the Mufti rather than Hitler and the German people.. They think it justifies what they have done to the Palestinians. Between 1920 and 1935 600,000 European Jews moved  to Palestine where the organize terror groups, carried out false flag operations like the bombing of the king David hotel and killed British peacekeepers.


And your Nazi source for this half truths would be.... something like the other source which had a Nazi SS officer's name as its writer?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> And your Nazi source for this half truths would be.... something like the other source which had a Nazi SS officer's name as its writer?



The Mufti wanted to slow the flood of immigrants to Palestine .. same as we would object to 100 million foreigners who hated our culture coming to America.

You all have a long, long history of rewriting history.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Mufti wanted to slow the flood of immigrants to Palestine .. same as we would object to 100 million foreigners who hated our culture coming to America.
> 
> You all have a long, long history of rewriting history.


And still, you are incapable of showing where you borrowed these ideas.

Because in the end, these are not your words, these are not your experiences.  

The Mufti, whose family moved to Palestine in the 10th century was as much a foreigner to the land of Israel, as all the other Arabs who moved there from the 7th century on.

Their land, is wherever Islam has conquered it.

Your comparison is pathetic considering that FOREIGNERS invaded the American continents and took away lives and cultures from their indigenous people.

"Americans" are not the indigenous people of North America, anymore than Arabs, or even now called Palestinians, can be considered indigenous to Ancient Canaan, Israel, Judea, Palestine.

Keep running away from logic.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> And still, you are incapable of showing where you borrowed these ideas.
> 
> Because in the end, these are not your words, these are not your experiences.
> 
> The Mufti, whose family moved to Palestine in the 10th century was as much a foreigner to the land of Israel, as all the other Arabs who moved there from the 7th century on.
> 
> Their land, is wherever Islam has conquered it.
> 
> Your comparison is pathetic considering that FOREIGNERS invaded the American continents and took away lives and cultures from their indigenous people.
> 
> "Americans" are not the indigenous people of North America, anymore than Arabs, or even now called Palestinians, can be considered indigenous to Ancient Canaan, Israel, Judea, Palestine.
> 
> Keep running away from logic.




Come now. Don't be stupid. You are confusing Arabs with Muslims. Arabs have been in Palestine since before Abraham came out of Ur near Haran.. The Akkadians were from the Arabian peninsula and they were all over Syria-Palestine, Mesopotamia ad the Levant before Judaism existed.. They had a written. language by 3100 BC


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Come now. Don't be stupid. You are confusing Arabs with Muslims. Arabs have been in Palestine since before Abraham came out of Ur near Haran.. The Akkadians were from the Arabian peninsula and they were all over Syria-Palestine, Mesopotamia ad the Levant before Judaism existed.. They had a written. language by 3100 BC


Come now.  You know that I am not stupid.

I started a whole thread for you to show me how a mass invasion of Arabs happened before Abraham, and so far.....nothing.

The Akkadians were not Arabs.

Stop repeating things which are not true, and learning things which are true.

I show Nazi propaganda to you, you dismiss it.
Anything which does not agree with your rosy love for Arabs and Islam, you promptly dismiss.

Read fewer, if none Nazi sources.
Read fewer, if none....Israel hating sources.
Read fewer, if none.....Jew hating sources.

There are way too many out there.

Here are some of them ( The Imam and the Interior minister, that is ) :









						French Antisemitic Website Disappears From View as Interior Minister Denounces ‘Scandalous, Nauseating’ Content
					

ILLUSTRATIVE: An antisemitic sign on display at a vaccine refusal demonstration in Metz. Photo: Screenshot via social media. A vitriolic …




					www.algemeiner.com
				












						Norwegian imam who has led interfaith dialogue said Jews should be killed
					

Director of moderate Muslim group's outreach branch suspended after exposé reveals years of antisemitic statements published on Facebook




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





Jew hatred is a disease followed by too many Christians and Muslims.

Many have gotten rid of that disease.

Good luck (in getting rid of it, too )


----------



## Sixties Fan

( A book, for those who deny the link between Al Husseini and the Nazis, and his role in how many Jews ended up dying through his and Nazi hands from 1920 to 1948 )





__





						Gensicke, The Mufti of Jerusalem and the Nazis: The Berlin Years
					






					www.palestine-studies.org
				




-----------------

Amin al-Husaini is undeniably one of the key figures of the 20th century. He was the religious head of the Palestinian Muslims for 16 years, their political leader for 30 years, and, for a time, he was the most important representative of the Arab world. Now available in paperback, this book examines the time that Amin al-Husaini spent in Nazi Germany from 1941 to 1945. It looks at what the Mufti was hoping to gain politically and ideologically while he was there. The book is directed primarily at the four years which the Mufti of Jerusalem, with his staff of some 60 persons and a secret service of his own, spent in Berlin as a guest and at the expense of the Third Reich. Although seen as only a four year period of time, even today, this period continues to poison the Israeli-Arab relationship. Al-Husaini cooperated eagerly with the Nazis to prevent Jews emigrating from Europe to Palestine. Aware of what was happening, he wanted to see the Jews destroyed. He also expected a high position for himself in the Arab world after the Nazis had won World War II. Germany's enemies became his enemies and he waged a campaign of hate against the British and the Americans, who were, he claimed, pawns of the Jews. This began the path towards anti-Americanism and the struggle against 'Western depravity' in the name of Islam. The book shows how Amin al-Husaini used murder, terrorism, intrigue, extortion, and the abuse of religion to obtain his goals. His broadcasts to the Muslims in North Africa during World War II were appeals for martyrdom in order to help the Germans, as that would guarantee Paradise. After the war, he continued to act in precisely the same manner. His greed for wealth, hunger for power, despotism, ruthlessness, and intransigence were all factors that brought disaster upon his people and have, unfortunately, set a standard that remains valid in Palestinian politics today. 

*** "It is to be desired that politicians and journalists read this book, in which, based on German primary source files, Klaus Gensicke proves that Haj Muhammad Amin al-Husaini, Mufti of Jerusalem since 1921, participated in the murder of European Jews and his anti-Semitism contributed to the outbreak of the futile war against Israel in 1948." -- Karl Pfeifer ***


----------



## Sixties Fan

For example, Choudhary argues that there have been “forceful evictions” from the eastern Jerusalem neighbourhood of Shimon HaTzaddik/Sheikh Jarrah, which social media has highlighted. Tragically, misinformation surrounding this issue has spurred violence from the Palestinians. In reality, a group of non-paying tenants in a building owned legally by a string of Jewish owners for 140 years have refused to pay rent, though the ownership of the building is without a doubt, and has been proven in court, even with the acknowledgement of Arab tenants. And, in a country governed by the rule of law, the owners sought to legally evict their law-breaking tenants, which was granted by a district court, though not yet followed through with.

Nevertheless, back in the spring, spurious claims – not dissimilar from the ones made by Choudhary – began spreading that Israel is evicting tenants for some unfounded reason, and that was enough for Hamas, the terrorist group which rules the Gaza Strip with an iron fist, to sense an opportunity. In short order, propaganda began spreading, and the “Tik Tok Intifada” was born, leaving death and destruction for Israelis and Palestinians alike.

During that same conflict, one image quickly went viral around the world. In it, a tree atop the Temple Mount in Jerusalem was ablaze, and in the Western Wall Plaza below, jubilant Israelis danced. The rumours thus began: Israeli Jews celebrate while the Al Aqsa Mosque burns.

But once again, the facts were nowhere to be seen.







The truth is very different. The tree in question was set ablaze by errant firecrackers, fired from Palestinian rioters on the Temple Mount, towards Israeli police. And in the Western Wall Plaza, concurrently but unrelated, celebrations were already taking place for Jerusalem Day, when the city was liberated from Jordanian occupation in 1967.

But social media rarely captures nuance, and so the truth became secondary to scandalous – yet fake – rumours.

If Choudhary sees social media as an effective tool to spread truth about an event, it would be important to first set the record straight, and stop peddling misinformation.

(full article online)









						McMaster University’s Campus Paper Publishes Op-Ed Replete With Anti-Israel Misinformation
					

In The Silouette, McMaster University’s student-run newspaper, Shehla Choudhary's June 21 op-ed entitled “The role of social media activism




					honestreporting.ca


----------



## Sixties Fan

( It was never about Israel.  It has always been about Jews. 1300 years of a bad habit of keeping Jews as second class citizens )


----------



## Sixties Fan

Richard Pollack writes in JNS:




> I recently stumbled upon a photography book shot by the acclaimed Life magazine wartime photographer John Phillips. The large, innocuous-looking book was simply titled, A Will to Survive. After flipping through the pages, I realized I entered a time capsule that memorializes the Arab destruction of Jerusalem’s ancient Jewish Quarter in 1948.
> 
> Not only is it a dramatic firsthand account of the fall of the Jewish Quarter in 1948, but it documents the Arab Legion’s scorched-earth tactics that razed and burned to the ground every structure there, including all its synagogues and yeshivahs. The Arabs expelled all of the city’s residents, mainly defenseless, old Orthodox Jews. They were given about an hour to vacate homes that most extended families had lived in for centuries.
> 
> And there never has been a reckoning by any international body about the Arab Legion’s barbaric actions after it captured the Quarter.
> 
> To get his shots in May 1948, Phillips posed undercover in Jerusalem as a British officer in the Arab Legion. He also smuggled out his photos to avoid Arab censors who were eager to keep the sacking of the Jewish Quarter secret.
> 
> Phillips faced personal danger to do the shoot. He entered the Middle East undercover and wore the uniform of the Arab Legion, a British-created Arab army led by British officers, many of whom stayed on with their units to fight the Jews. “Mistaking me for a British officer, the Arab populace left me alone,” he wrote.
> 
> He was appalled about the Arab censorship. “Aware that the sack of the Jewish Quarter would shock the western world, Arab authorities across the Middle East tried to prevent the news from leaking out. Jerusalem could not be mentioned under any circumstances,” he wrote.
> 
> “I knew my pictures of the agony of the Jewish Quarter would end up in a censor’s wastepaper basket. I did not want this to happen and decided to smuggle them out of the Middle East.”



I found a copy of the book online. The photographs in the book are stunning.









						A 1976 book documents the ethnic cleansing of Jews from Jerusalem in 1948 with stunning photographs
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## danielpalos

Sixties Fan said:


> Richard Pollack writes in JNS:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found a copy of the book online. The photographs in the book are stunning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A 1976 book documents the ethnic cleansing of Jews from Jerusalem in 1948 with stunning photographs
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com


Even black codes were still in effect back then.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Of course, most importantly, Hitler and the Nazi propaganda machine used the main theme of the Protocols – evil Jewish power – to turn the German people from merely not liking the Jews to seeing them as a grave threat to Germany. Hitler explicitly invoked the Protocols, his regime mass distributed the book, and ultimately the Protocols served as part of what has been called the Nazis’ “warrant for genocide,” culminating in what we all know as the horrors of the Holocaust.

In more modern times, much of the Arab world continues to circulate the Protocols as part of a long-time effort to delegitimize the state of Israel and seeing inherent Jewish insidiousness as the underlying nature of the Jewish state.

And most recently, ADL uncovered the fact that the newly elected president of Iran, Ebrahim Raisi, had overseen a project in Iran several years ago that presented the Protocols in a fifty-episode film series, shown on public TV and distributed in hardcopy to pilgrims visiting Iran, as if the document was an accurate description of Jewish power and intentions in the world.

It is important to understand why the Protocols has had such an influential and long life, however pernicious. The creators of the document understood that millions of people around the world had been inculcated for centuries with the idea that Jews were secretly all-powerful and destructive. This was the core and unique element of antisemitism. They realized that if they could create a document that would confirm these sentiments, people would believe them to be authentic.

Which is exactly what happened, as evidenced by an incident in Bern, Switzerland in 1935. Due to the Graves refutation and the horrific violence against Jews based on the Protocols, the Swiss government had passed a law making it illegal to distribute the Protocols. Two individuals were being prosecuted for exactly that. At the trial, a slew of witnesses testified to the fraudulent nature of the Protocols, citing Graves’ work. Finally, one of the defendants came to the docket and was asked about how he thought about things in light of all these testimonies. He said, none of that bothers me because I see in everyday life all around how the Protocols is an accurate description of reality, that the Jews are all-powerful and trying to take over the world!

(full article online)









						100 years of debunking The Protocols: The fight goes on
					

The London Times' refuted the insidious antisemitic conspiracy a century ago, yet the poisonous message is still spread in Iran, the Arab world and beyond




					blogs.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

(Where have I read these sayings before? )

Unite members backing Steve Turner, who is standing to be elected general secretary of Britain’s largest trade union, have shared hundreds of Facebook posts riddled with conspiracy theories and inflammatory language about Israel and Zionism.

The posts, passed to the JC by the Twitter activist Gnasher Jew, include cartoons likening Israel to the Nazis.

Many feature conspiracy theories while others brand Israel a “terrorist state”, “evil” or “genocidal maniacs”.

In one post, Unite Branch Secretary Joanne Harris accused Jews of seeking to “play the victim” whilst being the “oppressor”. Ms Harris is the vice chair of United Left, the group supporting Assistant General Secretary Steve Turner’s bid for the top job.

In 2016, she defended Palestinian suicide bombers, saying their murderous acts were “born out of desperation and a will to reclaim the land which was stolen from them”.

She also praised a colleague who railed against “antisemitic nonsense” and likened Israel to the Nazis.

The colleague said that “Israel’s leaders do the same to the Palestinians as what Hitler did to the Jewish. Today Israel is the same with what Hitler did, he was a fascist … Israel does a fascist work”.

In response, Ms Harris declared: “Very well said.”

She also liked an offensive post that said that “Zionists have always wanted control of all humanity”.

In another post, Ms Harris stated: “I am no Holocaust denier nor am I a Jew hater.

“I abhor what the Nazis did to the Jews in WW2 but that does not give them the right to do what they are doing to the Palestinians.” She branded Israel an “apartheid” state, engaged in “racism on a grand scale”.

(full article online)



			https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/exposed-conspiracy-posts-of-unite-s-hard-left-1.519544


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> The first day of the festival had sessions on LGBTQ+, wind energy and Greek history. The second day featured the Palestinian envoy to Greece to give an anti-Israel speech.
> 
> The speech by Marwan Toubassi was filled with clear lies and incitement against Israel as well as pure antisemitism.
> 
> He said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Literally every word is a lie, and the use of the word "holocaust" is by any definition antisemitic.
> 
> But the Jew-hatred doesn't end there.
> 
> 
> 
> Toubassi is quoting Mahmoud Abbas' book saying that the Jews aren't a people and they should not have a state.
> 
> Denying Jewish peoplehood is antisemitism, and in this case it is part of a demand that Jews in the Middle East always remain as second class citizens under Muslim rule.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian envoy to Greece spouts antisemitism at an "anti-racism" festival
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com



You might want to look up the Ottoman census of 1870. Arabs were the majority (and they didn't count the Bedouin) The Christians were a much smaller group and the Jewish population was tiny by comparison.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> You might want to look up the Ottoman census of 1870. Arabs were the majority (and they didn't count the Bedouin) The Christians were a much smaller group and the Jewish population was tiny by comparison.


This is a false response as to who are the indigenous people of the land.

Indigenous people are not counted by how many there are, and especially who the majority of people living on the land at the time are. (Just look at the Americas, Australia, New Zealand, etc )

You copy and paste the very same paragraph time and again, and it has absolutely no value in determining who the indigenous people anywhere in the world are.

Jews are indigenous of Judea.

Arabs are indigenous of Arabia.

That was known before WWI, and it has not changed.


----------



## Sinajuavi

Sixties Fan said:


> Though Palestinian Sheikh Jarrah ‘activist’ Mohammed el-Kurd claims he has no problem with Jews, as we’ve previously demonsrated, the record shows he’s a racist ideologue in every sense of the term.
> 
> During an interview with MSNBC that he retweeted, he argued that _all Israelis are the same_, ‘they’re all terrorists’. He’s written that Jews who live across the Green Line are “psychotic” and “rabid dogs”. He’s also peddled the historically lethal lie that Jews are threatening to destroy al-Aqsa, and even claimed there’s no archaeological evidence that the 1st and 2nd Temples existed.
> 
> On Twitter, he said it’s “psychotic” to ask Palestinians to refrain from violence, praised a PFLP terrorist, compared Israeli actions to that of the Nazis, characterised Zionism as inherently genocidal and retweeted (and praised as ‘eloquent’) a video of the late Kwame Ture accusing Zionism of being a “Satanic movement”.
> 
> ----
> As reports made clear, Smotrich didn’t “barge into” his family’s house.  He merely visited the neighborhood. Even the pro-Hamas site MEMO didn’t claim that Smotrich “barged into” Kurds house.
> 
> Then, mirroring the rhetoric of extremists who reject Israel’s existence, even within 1949 boundaries, Kurd characterises the situation in Sheikh Jarrah as “a perfect illustration of settler colonialism.. across 73 years of Zionist rule”.
> 
> Describing Israel, since its rebirth in 1948, as a “settler colonial state”, implies that all Israelis are “settlers”, and falsely suggests that Jews have no historical connection to the land – an assertion, we noted earlier, Kurd himself tweeted – and that Zionism is racist and morally illegitimate.  It also negates the historical reality that most pre-state Zionists arrived as refugees, escaping racism and mass murder in Europe – not, as Kurd would have you believe, as conquerors seeking to extend their (of course, non-existent) territory.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guardian op-ed by Mohammed el-Kurd on Sheikh Jarrah: Nearly fact-free.
> 
> 
> Though Palestinian Sheikh Jarrah 'activist' Mohammed el-Kurd claims he has no problem with Jews, as we've previously demonsrated, the record shows he's a ra
> 
> 
> 
> 
> camera-uk.org


An anti-Zionist is by definition a racist piece of shit.


----------



## Sinajuavi

surada said:


> You might want to look up the Ottoman census of 1870. Arabs were the majority (and they didn't count the Bedouin) The Christians were a much smaller group and the Jewish population was tiny by comparison.


Who removed the Jews from their homeland? If you learn the history, the list includes Arabs and Turks.


----------



## Sinajuavi

Sixties Fan said:


> *The destruction of the Jewish Temple is a “myth” - PA TV’s “Israeli affairs expert”*​
> *Jewish history in Jerusalem “has no basis other than in their heads that are full of legends and fantasies” - PA TV*​
> *“No archaeological existence of their alleged Temple has been proven” – PA TV*​
> *“The Israel Antiquities Authority… put together a story and invented a narrative that suits their lies” – PA TV*​
> *“[Jews have] no religious, historical, or legal right over any inch of occupied Jerusalem,” – Abbas’ advisor on Islam*​
> *“[Jews’ visiting the Temple Mount] is dragging the region into a religious war that will burn the entire region,” - Abbas’ spokesman*​
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA leaders continue to deny existence of Jewish Temples | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Jewish history in Jerusalem “has no basis other than in their heads that are full of legends and fantasies” - PA TV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org


The only reason I can perceive for NOT replacing the usurper Al-Aqsa shack with a rebuilt Jewish Temple is that the Muslims of the world will react violently. Was it an accident that Arabs built that mosque right on the most sacred Judaic site? Sure, and it was accidental that so many mosques in India are on the site of usurped temples. And Erdogan just made the Hagia Sophia into a mosque again. This seems to be a pattern with Islamoimperialists.


----------



## fncceo

surada said:


> You might want to look up the Ottoman census of 1870



Look up the Jewish census of 70 CE ... Jews were 99% majority.


----------



## Sinajuavi

watchingfromafar said:


> No such place ever existed
> 
> (Gen 45:21 KJV) _*And the children of Israel did so:* and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way._
> 
> (Gen 47:1 KJV) _*Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.*_
> 
> (Gen 47:3 KJV) _And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, *What is your occupation?* And they said unto Pharaoh, *Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.*_
> 
> If that is a threat, stick it -


You are an antisemitic lying propagandist, and as such, you are being surveilled, including by Mossad, I'm quite sure. Is that a threat to you? Good... you're vile racist scum and deserve whatever they do to you. I'll applaud it. Cram THAT, bitch.


----------



## surada

Sinajuavi said:


> Who removed the Jews from their homeland? If you learn the history, the list includes Arabs and Turks.



Nope. By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine in Persia, Iraq, Elephantine Island, Alexandria, Aleppo, Damascus, Rome, North Africa and all round the Mediterranean Sea.

The Roman wars caused many more to leave until Omar invited them to return to Jerusalem.

Read Ibn Battuta or Rabbi Benjamin Tudela... There were very few Jews in Palestine even in the 11th century AD.


----------



## surada

fncceo said:


> Look up the Jewish census of 70 CE ... Jews were 99% majority.



You mean when the Temple was destroyed? Many new Christians had fled to Pella to avoid the tribulation. The population of all of Palestine ever exceeded more than 600,000.


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sinajuavi said:


> Cram THAT, bitch.


*Sinajuavi*; Oh, poor baby; if I have hurt your feelings, please forgive me.

If on the other hand you do not like the verses I posted you should take your feeble complaints to the authors, not me.

Sweet pee

-


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> You mean when the Temple was destroyed? Many new Christians had fled to Pella to avoid the tribulation. The population of all of Palestine ever exceeded more than 600,000.


And you continue to confuse the invaders with the indigenous people.

And you would never say that any of the indigenous people of the Americas, Australia or New Zealand, would never have the right to reconstruct their sovereign nations, ON their ancient homelands.

Only the Jews.
Only because the invaders who mostly stayed all over Asia Minor and North Africa were Arabs.  Arab Muslims.

There is no other reason why you would not recognize the Indigenous Jewish people of the land.

Yes, of course you were told that the Khazars converted to Judaism and that these European Jews are really Indigenous Europeans.

Not a thought that Jews have migrated to Europe centuries before the Khazars allegedly converted, and that there were thousands of Jews already living in Europe, and staying in Europe and those Jews were the ones being expelled first from England, and than all the other European Countries till the final expulsion in 1492.

Don't think about the above.

Keep believing that the number of Indigenous people matters less than the fact that they ARE the indigenous people of the land with full rights to reclaim their homeland at any time.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> And you continue to confuse the invaders with the indigenous people.
> 
> And you would never say that any of the indigenous people of the Americas, Australia or New Zealand, would never have the right to reconstruct their sovereign nations, ON their ancient homelands.
> 
> Only the Jews.
> Only because the invaders who mostly stayed all over Asia Minor and North Africa were Arabs.  Arab Muslims.
> 
> There is no other reason why you would not recognize the Indigenous Jewish people of the land.
> 
> Yes, of course you were told that the Khazars converted to Judaism and that these European Jews are really Indigenous Europeans.
> 
> Not a thought that Jews have migrated to Europe centuries before the Khazars allegedly converted, and that there were thousands of Jews already living in Europe, and staying in Europe and those Jews were the ones being expelled first from England, and than all the other European Countries till the final expulsion in 1492.
> 
> Don't think about the above.
> 
> Keep believing that the number of Indigenous people matters less than the fact that they ARE the indigenous people of the land with full rights to reclaim their homeland at any time.



The Akkadians were Arabs from the Arabian peninsula .. They had a written language by 3600 BC before Abraham ever left Ura near Haram.

I don't care about Khazar conversions or Berber or Yemeni conversions or Edomite Conversions. They called themselves Jews which is fine, but the Arabs were already there.


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sinajuavi said:


> Who removed the Jews from their homeland?


*The Jews never had a “homeland”,* they were shepherds grazing their sheep on the open plains.

The Jews did however live a long time in Egypt where at one point the ruler over Egypt was a Jew

(Gen 42:25 KJV) _Then* Joseph* _[a Jew] _commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:_

(Gen 45:20 KJV) _Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours._

See above, they abandon the land of Canaan and move to Egypt

(Gen 45:21 KJV) *And the children of Israel did so*_: and *Joseph* gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way._

(Gen 47:1 KJV) _Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, *My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.*_

(Gen 47:3 KJV) _And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, *Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.*_

(Gen 47:4 KJV) _They said moreover unto Pharaoh, For to sojourn in the land are we come; for thy servants have no pasture for their flocks; for the famine is sore in the land of Canaan: now therefore, we pray thee, let thy servants dwell in the land of Goshen._

(Gen 47:5 KJV) _And Pharaoh spake unto Joseph, saying, Thy father [ISRAEL] and thy brethren are come unto thee:_

(Gen 47:6 KJV) _The land of Egypt is before thee; in the best of the land make thy father and brethren to dwell; in the land of Goshen let them dwell: and if thou knowest any men of activity among them, then make them rulers over my cattle._

*(Gen 47:11 KJV) And Joseph placed his father [ISRAEL] and his brethren, and gave them a possession in the land of Egypt, in the best of the land, in the land of Rameses, as Pharaoh had commanded.*

As a side note, the only reason the Jews leave Egypt is because Moses murders a man in the street for all to see. The Pharaoh sought to punish Moses for this murder, but Moses and his clan flee before he could be caught.

the truth will set you free
-


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Akkadians were Arabs from the Arabian peninsula .. They had a written language by 3600 BC before Abraham ever left Ura near Haram.
> 
> I don't care about Khazar conversions or Berber or Yemeni conversions or Edomite Conversions. They called themselves Jews which is fine, but the Arabs were already there.


(There were those who were Arabs in the Arabian Peninsula, and then there were those who were not.)

Eventually, the Sumerians would have to battle another peoples, the Akkadians, who migrated up from *the Arabian peninsula*. The Akkadians were a Semitic people, that is, they spoke a Semitic language related to languages such as Hebrew and Arabic.

(They did not speak Arabic, therefore were not Arabs.
It is possible for other than Arab people to have come from the Arabian Peninsula, as they did )

Akkad, ancient region in what is now central Iraq. Akkad was the northern (or northwestern) division of ancient Babylonia. The region was located roughly in the area where the Tigris and Euphrates rivers (_see_ Tigris-Euphrates river system) are closest to each other, and its northern limit extended beyond the line of the modern cities of Al-Fallūjah and Baghdad. The early inhabitants of this region were predominantly Semitic, and their speech is called Akkadian. To the south of the region of Akkad lay Sumer, the southern (or southeastern) division of ancient Babylonia, which was inhabited by a non-Semitic people known as Sumerians.









						Akkad | People, Culture, History, & Facts
					

Akkad,  ancient region in what is now central Iraq. Akkad was the northern (or northwestern) division of ancient Babylonia. The region was located roughly in the area where the Tigris and Euphrates rivers (see Tigris-Euphrates river system) are closest to each other, and its northern limit...



					www.britannica.com
				





(Some Arabs being there does not make them INDIGENOUS of the land.  The Jews and a few others were indigenous of the area.

 Not the Arabs, no matter how many there were , history cannot consider any of those, be they  Arabs, or Greeks, or Romans, or Akkadians to be INDIGENOUS of the Ancient land of Canaan.


It is about who is the rightful owner of the land, via how long they lived there continuously, how they kept their history, culture, language, interaction with any and all groups who passed through their land.

The Jewish People are the only People of that area who can show any evidence of it, through each and every one of the invading, conquering groups who came through the land, from the Philistines, to the British.


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sinajuavi said:


> you are being surveilled, including by Mossad, I'm quite sure. Is that a threat to you? Good... you're vile racist scum and deserve whatever they do to you. I'll applaud it. Cram THAT, bitch.


Mossad can kiss my ass

I’m speaking to you. *Sinajuavi*, aka-Turd blossom

-


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sixties Fan said:


> The Jewish People are the only People of that area who.,,,,


----Use their military sniper teams so single out and murder Palestinian children.
-


----------



## Sinajuavi

watchingfromafar said:


> *Sinajuavi*; Oh, poor baby; if I have hurt your feelings, please forgive me.
> 
> If on the other hand you do not like the verses I posted you should take your feeble complaints to the authors, not me.
> 
> Sweet pee
> 
> -


My reaction is to not even bother looking back to see to which post you refer, as you clearly state nothing, but simply to comment to you that you can cram your snarky little infantile condescending attempts to insult right back from the stank orifice from which they were withdrawn.

Want to start quoting verses? I'll include various surah and also the NT. You won't like it.


----------



## Sinajuavi

watchingfromafar said:


> ----Use their military sniper teams so single out and murder Palestinian children.
> -


That there is a steaming load of bulldooky, fool.


----------



## Sixties Fan

watchingfromafar said:


> ----Use their military sniper teams so single out and murder Palestinian children.
> -


Sorry that you waste your time believing this Arabian Fairy tales, rather Christian and Muslims daily tales,  about Jews or Israel.

It is called :

Judeophobia, Antisemitism, Jew hatred

Whenever one chooses to believe any and all allegations against Israel or Jews.


All with the intention of destroy Israel, because to too many extreme Christians and Muslims......Jews are inferior, second class citizens who do not have the same rights as others, Especially the RIGHT to reconstruct their Nation ON a small part of their ancient Land.


----------



## Sinajuavi

watchingfromafar said:


> Mossad can kiss my ass
> 
> I’m speaking to you. *Sinajuavi*, aka-Turd blossom
> 
> -


Oh why bother... just speak to Mossad? Well, effectively you are.

People often criticize Israeli policies. That is acceptable. But as you, you're Nazi flamethrowers and so you will have to be extinguished. It has nothing to do with me. I just happen to agree with the extinguishers.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sinajuavi said:


> My reaction is to not even bother looking back to see to which post you refer, as you clearly state nothing, but simply to comment to you that you can cram your snarky little infantile condescending attempts to insult right back from the stank orifice from which they were withdrawn.
> 
> Want to start quoting verses? I'll include various surah and also the NT. You won't like it.


Could we please stop with the attacks on other posters.
Discuss, argue or ignore.  I have many, like this one, on ignore.  Makes life much easier.


----------



## Sinajuavi

watchingfromafar said:


> *The Jews never had a “homeland”,* they were shepherds grazing their sheep on the open plains.
> 
> The Jews did however live a long time in Egypt where at one point the ruler over Egypt was a Jew
> 
> (Gen 42:25 KJV) _Then* Joseph* _[a Jew] _commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:_
> 
> (Gen 45:20 KJV) _Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours._
> 
> See above, they abandon the land of Canaan and move to Egypt
> 
> (Gen 45:21 KJV) *And the children of Israel did so*_: and *Joseph* gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way._
> 
> (Gen 47:1 KJV) _Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, *My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.*_
> 
> (Gen 47:3 KJV) _And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, *Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.*_
> 
> (Gen 47:4 KJV) _They said moreover unto Pharaoh, For to sojourn in the land are we come; for thy servants have no pasture for their flocks; for the famine is sore in the land of Canaan: now therefore, we pray thee, let thy servants dwell in the land of Goshen._
> 
> (Gen 47:5 KJV) _And Pharaoh spake unto Joseph, saying, Thy father [ISRAEL] and thy brethren are come unto thee:_
> 
> (Gen 47:6 KJV) _The land of Egypt is before thee; in the best of the land make thy father and brethren to dwell; in the land of Goshen let them dwell: and if thou knowest any men of activity among them, then make them rulers over my cattle._
> 
> *(Gen 47:11 KJV) And Joseph placed his father [ISRAEL] and his brethren, and gave them a possession in the land of Egypt, in the best of the land, in the land of Rameses, as Pharaoh had commanded.*
> 
> As a side note, the only reason the Jews leave Egypt is because Moses murders a man in the street for all to see. The Pharaoh sought to punish Moses for this murder, but Moses and his clan flee before he could be caught.
> 
> the truth will set you free
> -


Ok, I'm with you. Sieg heil! Let's find some Hebrew from the distant past, find some heinous thing he did, I mean a real nasty guy, and use THAT as justification for abusing Jews today! Brilliant, eh? Sure, this Moses guy will do, he killed someone, great, SEE how those Jews are? They KILL people!!! (In fact, ahem, who do you think killed Jesus?)

What tedious and tendentious twaddle! Let's examine every ethnic group and seek to legitimize or delegitimize them based on their history. Are the Belgians real? How about the Serere? The Lao? Check them all out... I found some shit from 4300 years ago on one of these groups, and I think we should hate them all now as a result!

See how stupid y'all are?


----------



## Sinajuavi

surada said:


> The Akkadians were Arabs from the Arabian peninsula .. They had a written language by 3600 BC before Abraham ever left Ura near Haram.
> 
> I don't care about Khazar conversions or Berber or Yemeni conversions or Edomite Conversions. They called themselves Jews which is fine, but the Arabs were already there.


It is hardly accurate to claim that Akkadians were Arabs, given that the primary ancestry of the "Mideast" (Y-haplotype J) moved in from the north, northern Mesopotamia, in the first place. Ancestry in the Arabian Peninsula is that, other more indigenous types, plus African immigrants.

It is well confirmed that the Ashkenazim descend from the Jews of Judaea, the Israelites. Likewise Sephardim and Mizrahim. The Ashkenazim are more mixed with others than the latter 2. So... let's also examine every ethnic group and pass judgment based on their degree of admixture.

Some Dutch people are part English, so perhaps they should be expelled to England, who however would then have to throw them back for being part Dutch... hmmmm...


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sinajuavi said:


> you can cram your snarky little infantile condescending attempts to insult right back from the stank orifice from which they were withdrawn.


I feel sorry for you -


Sinajuavi said:


> Want to start quoting verses? I'll include various surah and also the NT. You won't like it.


Go for it sweet pee
-


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sinajuavi said:


> Ok, I'm with you. Sieg heil! Let's find some Hebrew from the distant past, find some heinous thing he did, I mean a real nasty guy, and use THAT as justification for abusing Jews today!


I can not speak for Jews everywhere, but here, where I live Jews are not threatened.

Rachel Maddow is a Jew, and she is popular.





There are many Jewish people in America who are doing quite well.

Sinajuavi, take a deep breath and exhale slowly. I believe you are using this topic as an excuse to vent your own misgivings.

And I must say, I am enjoying venting it right back to you Oh Wise One.

-



Sinajuavi said:


> Brilliant, eh? Sure, this Moses guy will do, he killed someone, great, SEE how those Jews are? They KILL people!!! (In fact, ahem, who do you think killed Jesus?)


Rabbis had Jesus murdered


Sinajuavi said:


> What tedious and tendentious twaddle! Let's examine every ethnic group and seek to legitimize or delegitimize them based on their history.


The past is the past, in the here and now the Israeli government uses terrorists acts to further their un-godly desires.


Sinajuavi said:


> See how stupid y'all are?


It is you who is the terd in the room.
-


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sixties Fan said:


> Sorry that you waste your time believing this Arabian Fairy tales, rather Christian and Muslims daily tales, about Jews or Israel.


*When the Israel government orders its IDF snipers to murder Palestinian children it is a direct order my the Israeli government.*
Google "IDF shooting children"
_Radio exchange contradicts army version of Gaza killing._
*https://tinyurl.com/ybk8lvmq*
*Israel 'killed 25 Palestinian children' in three months*
_Twenty-five Palestinian children were killed in the last three months of 2015 during a wave of anti-Israeli attacks and the number detained was the highest in seven years, according to the UNICEF._
*https://tinyurl.com/y92tvluh*
*2016 'deadliest year' for West Bank children in decade
Israeli forces killed 32 Palestinian children*_ in the West Bank in 2016, the highest number in 10 years.
The organisation's chapter in the occupied Palestinian territories recorded the *killings of 32 Palestinian children (under 18), *making 2016 "the deadliest year of the past decade" for them, the group said in a recent report._
*https://tinyurl.com/y85ctr7v*
*12 yr old boy SHOT DEAD*_ in front of your eyes
Updated 9.48 p.m., 3rd Oct 2000_
_A 12 Year old Boy Shot Dead in front of YOUR Eyes_
_Gaza girl said killed
By Amos Harel and Nir Hasson, Haaretz Correspondents,
and Haaretz Service
Thu., October 28, 2004
*IDF troops shot and killed an 8-year-old Palestinian girl* who was on her way to school in a Gaza Strip refugee camp_
*http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/494672.html*
_*UN officials: Girl hit by IDF gunfire in UN school in Gaza*
By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent and AP
Tue., October 12, 2004 Tishrei 27, 5765
*An 11-year-old Palestinian girl was shot in the stomach* and critically wounded *by Israel Defense Forces gunfire*. IDF troops fired two shots, one of the shots hit a fifth-grade student at the school. Last month, a *10-year-old girl was killed by IDF gunfire while sitting at her desk at the same school.*_
_http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/487788.html_
_United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) 7 September 2004 At 07:45 *10-year old Raghda Adnan Al-Assar was struck in the head* by Israeli fire while sitting at her desk in UNRWA's Elementary
Girl's School On June 1 this year *two ten-year old children* in UNRWA's
Al-Umariye Elementary Boys' School in Rafah were hit by a bullet from a Israeli tank
*12-year old Hoda Darwish was hit in the head* by a bullet fired *Two 10 year-old schoolchildren* were shot in the al-Omaria school run by UNRWA in Rafah, when an *Israeli tank fired into their classroom.*
Bullets fired from the tank flew through the classroom window, hitting Mahmoud Hamad in the neck and Hisham al Habil in the head. The boys had not even been sitting by the windows but in the middle of the room. (this was an assassination of specific children by the IDF)_
_http://www.palestinemonitor.org/index.html_
_Photos of a *12 year old palestinian boy being shot by Israeli soldiers *and the ambulance driver who tried to save him also being shot and killed._
_palestine-net.com_
_T*hree-year-old *Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and head while buying candy with her friends._
_The New Yorker’s Israel: Where Objectivity Fails_
_*An eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead* by Israeli troops in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends_
_Category: | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site_
_*Boy of 17, shot by Israeli soldiers, left bleeding overnight to die*
The bullet ridden corpse of Mohammad Abdullah Abu al-Husni, was found yesterday morning near the town of Jabaliya, where he lived in Gaza._
_http://www.palestinemonitor.org/updates/left_to_die.htm_
_Haneen, who was *eight years old, had been shot twice in the head* by an Israeli soldier as she walked down the street in Khan Yunis refugee camp with her mother.
She was coming down the street and ran to me and hugged me, crying,
'Mother, mother'. *Two bullets hit her in the head, one straight after the other*.
She was still in my arms and she died."_
_'I can't imagine anyone who considers himself a human being can do this'_
_-_


----------



## watchingfromafar

_*Images for “IDF shooting children”*

It is not God’s faithfulness that is questioned but the faithfulness of Hos chosen. They failed Him & continue to by defying His commandments. 

Murdering children is not God’s way, not way back then and still not God’s way today. 
I don’t have to look way back into the past to find the truth, I can *google—
“IDF shooting children” *and this is what I find—
AUG 9, 2014 - VIDEO - IDF - SHOOTING ... - Pinterest
Sep 2, 2014 - *Footage released on YouTube clearly shows Israeli soldiers firing live rounds at Palestinian children playing on a roof* in Al Khalil, an area of ...
Day after day the seemingly incontrovertible evidence of Israel's brutality rolls in. The snippets of videotape bounced around the world by CNN, BBC World News, and Sky TV are nearly always the same: A mob of dark-skinned teenagers armed with rocks pit themselves against phalanxes of faceless soldiers who respond by aiming rifles.
*Images for “IDF shooting children”*








						Lights, Camera, Intifada
					

Day after day the seemingly incontrovertible evidence of Israel's brutality rolls in. The snippets of videotape bounced around the world by CNN, BBC World News, and Sky TV are nearly always the same: A mob of dark-skinned teenagers armed with rocks pit themselves against phalanxes of faceless…




					www.washingtonexaminer.com
				



How many Palestinian children must the IDF murder to win the war ...
How many children does the IDF need to murder in order to win this ...

*Why Did They Shoot So Many in the Head?*
I don’t understand the Israeli government defense of the ‘shoot to kill’ behavior of commandos that stormed the Turkish flotilla going toward Gaza.
The protesters used primitive weapons — bats, slingshots, etc. Even if it is true that the activists brutally attacked the ship-raiding commandos, shooting to stop people, to deter them, or to disable them, is not shooting to kill.
This use of disproportionate force is something we have seen in Israel’s military profile over and over again — but particularly under the tenure of Defense Minister Ehud Barak.








						Why Did They Shoot So Many in the Head? The Washington Note by Steve Clemons
					

Political and current affairs commentary from The Hill's Editor at Large Steve Clemons




					washingtonnote.com
				




*The Israelites need to repent. They need to confess their sins, ask the Lord for forgiveness and I am sure He would forgive His chosen.
-*_


----------



## Sixties Fan

watchingfromafar said:


> I can not speak for Jews everywhere, but here, where I live Jews are not threatened.
> 
> Rachel Maddow is a Jew, and she is popular.
> View attachment 525553
> 
> There are many Jewish people in America who are doing quite well.
> 
> Sinajuavi, take a deep breath and exhale slowly. I believe you are using this topic as an excuse to vent your own misgivings.
> 
> And I must say, I am enjoying venting it right back to you Oh Wise One.
> 
> -
> 
> 
> Rabbis had Jesus murdered
> 
> The past is the past, in the here and now the Israeli government uses terrorists acts to further their un-godly desires.
> 
> It is you who is the terd in the room.
> -


You do not know Israel.  You do not know the government of Israel.

All you, and many others know, are the sources which tell you that Israel is an evil country run by Jews, and must stop existing.

No one says that Cuba, Venezuela, Russia, Poland, Belarus, Saudi Arabia, etc must cease to exist do to the horrors they bring to their people.

Israel defends all of its citizens, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Druze, etc.

Defending a country and its populations from actual terrorist attacks ( The Muslims have been embracing modern terrorism in order to destroy Israel, from before its creation in 1920)

It was not Jews who went to the Olympics in 1972 and killed all the Muslims or Arabs there.  It was Arab Muslims who went there and ended up killing all of the Israeli Jews.

This is a thread about the Right others DO NOT have of destroying Jewish History, and that includes Israel's modern history.


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sixties Fan said:


> No one says that Cuba, Venezuela, Russia, Poland, Belarus, Saudi Arabia, etc must cease to exist do to the horrors they bring to their people.


None of those governments use their military sniper teams to single out and murder children, not one.
But there is one that does, it is just not on the above list,
care to guess which country I am referring to?
-


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sixties Fan said:


> It was not Jews who went to the Olympics in 1972 and killed all the Muslims or Arabs there. It was Arab Muslims who went there and ended up killing all of the Israeli Jews.


I am sorry for the lives lost but this does not justify what the Israelis have done and continue to do.

The Israelis were the “first” to engage in terrorist acts.
-


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sixties Fan said:


> This is a thread about the Right others DO NOT have of destroying Jewish History,


Who is trying to destroy Jewish history-?
History cannot be destroyed; it is what it is.

-


----------



## Sixties Fan

watchingfromafar said:


> None of those governments use their military sniper teams to single out and murder children, not one.
> But their is one that does it is just not on the above list,
> care to guess which country I am referring to?
> -


You are on the wrong thread.

These allegations belong in conspiracy theory thread and communities.

There is not one non bias source about Israel which you have bothered to post.

All of them are anti Israel and will print whatever the Palestinian side wants them to print.

You clearly have no issues with Hamas firing rockets which kill their own people, or having bunkers under civilian homes, schools, hospitals, mosques,  putting rocket launchers in civilian areas, using women and children as shields .

And neither do any one of your sources.


----------



## Sixties Fan

watchingfromafar said:


> None of those governments use their military sniper teams to single out and murder children, not one.
> But there is one that does, it is just not on the above list,
> care to guess which country I am referring to?
> -


This is what you are about .

A religious extremist Christian who hates Jews. Any Jews.  And Israel is the Nation of the Jews. 
----------------------
_The Israelites need to repent. They need to confess their sins, ask the Lord for forgiveness and I am sure He would forgive His chosen._
-------------
_The above are the words you have chosen to be your signature.

Less religious extremism and more facts is seriously what you need to focus more on._


----------



## surada

Sinajuavi said:


> It is hardly accurate to claim that Akkadians were Arabs, given that the primary ancestry of the "Mideast" (Y-haplotype J) moved in from the north, northern Mesopotamia, in the first place. Ancestry in the Arabian Peninsula is that, other more indigenous types, plus African immigrants.
> 
> It is well confirmed that the Ashkenazim descend from the Jews of Judaea, the Israelites. Likewise Sephardim and Mizrahim. The Ashkenazim are more mixed with others than the latter 2. So... let's also examine every ethnic group and pass judgment based on their degree of admixture.
> 
> Some Dutch people are part English, so perhaps they should be expelled to England, who however would then have to throw them back for being part Dutch... hmmmm...



The Akkadians migrated from the Arabian peninsula.. 

The Akkadians were Semitic nomads, originating from the Arabian Peninsula, who began to migrate towards the Fertile Crescent at the time of the development of the first Mesopotamian city-states. The Akkadians were one of the most important peoples in Mesopotamia, present in the north of the region, an area that included the city of Kish.

This dates them earlier, but remember that the legend of Gilgamesh is written in Akkadian.





__





						Ancient Akkadian Civilization – Ancient Civilizations World
					






					ancientcivilizationsworld.com
				




The  point is that there were other civilizations in the region before the Hebrews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites and began to follow monotheism.

Jewish history is not the only history of the region.

You should also know that all Bedouin had a symbiotic relationship with settled peoples. They herded towns peoples' livestock to grazing in exchange for grains, textiles and pottery. In return the bedu provided meat, hides, wool, salt etc.

The reason the Hebrews went to the hill country of Canaan is because when the Philistines arrived on the coast the Hebrews lost that relationship. They needed extended family to grow grains.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> You are on the wrong thread.
> 
> These allegations belong in conspiracy theory thread and communities.
> 
> There is not one non bias source about Israel which you have bothered to post.
> 
> All of them are anti Israel and will print whatever the Palestinian side wants them to print.
> 
> You clearly have no issues with Hamas firing rockets which kill their own people, or having bunkers under civilian homes, schools, hospitals, mosques,  putting rocket launchers in civilian areas, using women and children as shields .
> 
> And neither do any one of your sources.



Where do you think HAMAS came from in 1984 and why do you think they didn't exist before? Have you ever looked into cause and effect.. Where do you think they recruited their members from and who do you think opposed the formation of HAMAS?

Get real and get honest.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> This is what you are about .
> 
> A religious extremist Christian who hates Jews. Any Jews.  And Israel is the Nation of the Jews.
> ----------------------
> _The Israelites need to repent. They need to confess their sins, ask the Lord for forgiveness and I am sure He would forgive His chosen._
> -------------
> _The above are the words you have chosen to be your signature.
> 
> Less religious extremism and more facts is seriously what you need to focus more on._



You hang on to that victimhood to justify Israel's choices.

Meanwhile,

The Semitic Migrations from Arabia – Arabic newspaper ...




__





						The Semitic Migrations from Arabia
					

The term Semitic appeared in the late eighteenth century by the Austrian theologian Schlotzer, and soon it was adopted by most researchers in the languages and civilizations of the ancient Arab E…




					www.profilenews.com
				



Jan 19, 2021 · As for the history of these migrations and the names of the groups that carried them, the theorists believe that the first half of the third millennium BC witnessed the departure of three human waves from the Arabian Peninsula, two of them towards the Mesopotamian valley, and they are the Akkadian wave that settled in the southern region and mixed with the Sumerian elements. There, the Assyrian wave that settled in the northern regions, and the third wave, …

5/5(1)


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sixties Fan said:


> These allegations belong in conspiracy theory thread and communities.


They are not allegations; they are recorded historical events.


Sixties Fan said:


> There is not one non bias source about Israel which you have bothered to post.


Again, I just posted recorded events.


Sixties Fan said:


> All of them are anti Israel and will print whatever the Palestinian side wants them to print.


Please present your side.


Sixties Fan said:


> You clearly have no issues with Hamas firing rockets which kill their own people


Stupid comments do not deserve a response.


Sixties Fan said:


> , or having bunkers under civilian homes, schools, hospitals, mosques


Having bunkers under their homes or businesses is not a crime, it is self-defense.


Sixties Fan said:


> , putting rocket launchers in civilian areas, using women and children as shields .


Again, this is called self-defense. But the Israelis have no problem bombing these areas no matter how many innocent civilians are killed. This is what the Israelis do best, murder, murder and murder some more

-


Sixties Fan said:


> And neither do any one of your sources.


I am waiting for your sources to prove me wrong.
and waiting, and waiting and waiting a little more
-


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Where do you think HAMAS came from in 1984 and why do you think they didn't exist before? Have you ever looked into cause and effect.. Where do you think they recruited their members from and who do you think opposed the formation of HAMAS?
> 
> Get real and get honest.


Blame Israel for trying to find a Muslim group which would fight Arafat.  

Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood.  Of course Israel did not think they would become what they did.  20/20 is always a good vision, but it requires distance.

It is like saying, Look at QAnon and how they did not exist before Trump.  They did exist, but not under that name.  And the ideology they formed was exactly the same as Trump's.

Just as Hamas' ideology was and continued to be about destroying Israel.

Thanks for the history lesson.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> You hang on to that victimhood to justify Israel's choices.
> 
> Meanwhile,
> 
> The Semitic Migrations from Arabia – Arabic newspaper ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Semitic Migrations from Arabia
> 
> 
> The term Semitic appeared in the late eighteenth century by the Austrian theologian Schlotzer, and soon it was adopted by most researchers in the languages and civilizations of the ancient Arab E…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.profilenews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jan 19, 2021 · As for the history of these migrations and the names of the groups that carried them, the theorists believe that the first half of the third millennium BC witnessed the departure of three human waves from the Arabian Peninsula, two of them towards the Mesopotamian valley, and they are the Akkadian wave that settled in the southern region and mixed with the Sumerian elements. There, the Assyrian wave that settled in the northern regions, and the third wave, …
> 
> 5/5(1)


"You hang on to that victimhood to justify Israel's choices."

You truly do not know a Antisemitic saying when you write it.  Nothing new about how you feel about Jews in general and Israel, specifically.


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sixties Fan said:


> A religious extremist Christian who hates Jews. Any Jews. And Israel is the Nation of the Jews.


Googled “*spitting on Christians*” 
I got About 42,200,000 results (0.55 seconds) . Can you guess who the spitter's were/are? As a Christian does this trouble...you?

spitting on Christians - Google Search
*Spitting update Reality is at your door. Muslims do not do the following & now you know who does*
Christians in Jerusalem *Want Jews to Stop Spitting on Them* a few weeks ago, a senior Greek Orthodox clergyman in Israel attended a meeting at a government office in Jerusalem's Givat Shaul quarter. When he returned to his car, an elderly man wearing a skullcap came and knocked on the window.
Christians in Jerusalem want Jews to stop spitting on them

Oct 12, 2004 - *Christians* in Jerusalem Want Jews to Stop *Spitting* on Them. A few weeks ago, a senior Greek Orthodox clergyman in Israel attended a meeting at a government office in Jerusalem's Givat Shaul quarter. When he returned to his car, an elderly man wearing a skullcap came and knocked on the window.
*https://tinyurl.com/j77w4jd*

DL: Spitting at Christians a 'repulsive act'
Jewish group calls on Israel's Chief Rabbinate to denounce decades-old ultra-Orthodox practice of *spitting at Christian clergymen* on the street. 'This is a hateful act of persecution against another faith group
*https://www.ynetnews.com/home/0,7340,L-3443,00.html*

*CHRISTIANS FEEL GROWING OPPRESSION IN ISRAEL*
Traditional Christians in Israel today who increasingly find themselves under assault, especially those living in or near orthodox Jewish neighborhoods. Last month, two churches were painted with slogans such as “Jesus is dead” and “Death to Christianity.” *Many priests (Rabbis) are daily spat upon when walking on the streets in Jerusalem.*
*https://tinyurl.com/y9jvz59g*

I don’t always see eye-to-eye with Abe Foxman of the Jewish Antidefamation League (ADL), but I want to give him his props on a recent statement issued by the ADL.
According to a press release,
The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) has called on the *Chief Rabbinate of Israel* to publicly denounce the repulsive *decades-old practice by ultra-Orthodox Jews of spitting at Christian clergymen they encounter in the street.*
*https://tinyurl.com/y8u3zfkd*

*Has the US news ever reported the above?
NO, not even once
&
One must wonder why?
-*​


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> "You hang on to that victimhood to justify Israel's choices."
> 
> You truly do not know a Antisemitic saying when you write it.  Nothing new about how you feel about Jews in general and Israel, specifically.



I don't have a problem with Jewish people or their religion at all. I think Israel is in the wrong and spending waaaay too much time defending what they have done in Palestine.

Why don't you just slow down and read A Palestinian Christian Cry for Reconciliation?

Many of us are on your side.. Don't be afraid to read it.

The point is that Jewish history is NOT the only history in the region.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> You hang on to that victimhood to justify Israel's choices.
> 
> Meanwhile,
> 
> The Semitic Migrations from Arabia – Arabic newspaper ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Semitic Migrations from Arabia
> 
> 
> The term Semitic appeared in the late eighteenth century by the Austrian theologian Schlotzer, and soon it was adopted by most researchers in the languages and civilizations of the ancient Arab E…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.profilenews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jan 19, 2021 · As for the history of these migrations and the names of the groups that carried them, the theorists believe that the first half of the third millennium BC witnessed the departure of three human waves from the Arabian Peninsula, two of them towards the Mesopotamian valley, and they are the Akkadian wave that settled in the southern region and mixed with the Sumerian elements. There, the Assyrian wave that settled in the northern regions, and the third wave, …
> 
> 5/5(1)


Can you find the same results about migration from the Arabian Peninsula in a non Arab source?

And why continue to assume that all who left the Arabian Peninsula were Arabs?

Are all from Europe German, or British, etc, etc.?  There were hundreds of tribes in each continent who eventually combined their forces and formed Nations, and eventually what can be called modern Countries.

Do you understand the difference I am referring to?


Let me focus on some sentences from that article:

"As for the history of these migrations and the names of the groups that carried them, the *theorists *believe"

"Although the arguments of the theory of sublime migrations have become old and outdated, and that Western researchers use it with all scientific caution, this theory has remained in control of historical research in our Arab East,"


My questions would be:

The whole article comes from theories?
Are there no archeological proof for any of those theories?
What is the purpose of writing any article based on theories?


How does that disprove any Jewish claim of sovereignty to their ancient Homeland?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> I don't have a problem with Jewish people or their religion at all. I think Israel is in the wrong and spending waaaay too much time defending what they have done in Palestine.
> 
> Why don't you just slow down and read A Palestinian Christian Cry for Reconciliation?
> 
> Many of us are on your side.. Don't be afraid to read it.
> 
> The point is that Jewish history is NOT the only history in the region.


You have been missing Israel's relationships with Christian and Arab countries, especially with the Arab ones lately.  And to allege that Israel does nothing to help Palestinians, comes exactly from the sources you read, which have clearly left you with the idea that Israel is a destroyer and not a builder, a bad idea and not the most successful country in the Middle East so far, a country so many Arab countries and Palestinians, look up to.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> I don't have a problem with Jewish people or their religion at all. I think Israel is in the wrong and spending waaaay too much time defending what they have done in Palestine.
> 
> Why don't you just slow down and read A Palestinian Christian Cry for Reconciliation?
> 
> Many of us are on your side.. Don't be afraid to read it.
> 
> The point is that Jewish history is NOT the only history in the region.


"The point is that Jewish history is NOT the only history in the region."

Another learned sentence you seem to have the need to repeat, again and again and again?

Here are some threads for you to read every now and then, to get an idea of what else is happening in that part of the world:





__





						Israel: Helping To Make A Better World
					

This thread is to show all the wonderful things Israel contributes to the world, from science to art............



					www.usmessageboard.com
				








__





						Your Favorite Things About Israel
					

This thread is for those who either live in Israel, have been to Israel, or simply enjoy many of the things which come from Israel.  Post your favorite movies, songs, books, poetry, restaurants, dishes, Malls, beaches, Archeological finds, tourist locations, stories, holidays.....the sky is the...



					www.usmessageboard.com
				






Maybe, just maybe, you will find out that Israel and Israelis do know that they are not the only country in that area, that Palestinians, aka Arab citizens, do not hate Israel and prefer living there than in any Arab country, that they have rights in Israel they do not have in any Muslim country.


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sixties Fan said:


> _The Israelites need to repent. They need to confess their sins, ask the Lord for forgiveness and I am sure He would forgive His chosen._
> -------------
> _The above are the words you have chosen to be your signature._


Yes
-


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> I don't have a problem with Jewish people or their religion at all. I think Israel is in the wrong and spending waaaay too much time defending what they have done in Palestine.
> 
> Why don't you just slow down and read A Palestinian Christian Cry for Reconciliation?
> 
> Many of us are on your side.. Don't be afraid to read it.
> 
> The point is that Jewish history is NOT the only history in the region.



"I think Israel is in the wrong and spending waaaay too much time defending what they have done in Palestine."

Unfortunately, it is the other way around.

It is Muslims and Christians attempting to destroy the only Jewish Nation on the planet simply because the Jews had the courage to say enough with the non enlightened ideologies of Christianity and Islam, which will always refuse to see the Jews as 100% humans.  No different than how White supremacists view Blacks and there minorities.

The whole Mandate for Palestine, including TranJordan was part of the Jewish ancient homeland.  It was never part of a Palestinian state, Empire, Caliphate or otherwise which would give those people an equal right to the land, as the Jews.

In any history book, including Muslim and Arab ones, before WWI......Palestine was the land of the ancient Israelites, of the Hebrew Scriptures, etc.   They all acknowledge who were and are the indigenous people of that land.

Jews having the courage to go against what others have decided are not their rights, to have their own sovereign Nation, and stop living under Christian and Muslim powers as second citizens, is what has brought the attacks by Muslims since 1920.

There was a region called Palestine, not a country, because Herodotus called the Philistine coastal area Palestinea, and the Romans changed Judea's name to the region of the People who had once defeated the Israelites.  And the British borrowed the humiliating name to the Mandate for the Jewish Homeland.

If you ever happen to go to that area again, try going to the Museums in Israel.  There is a clear history there.

As I have posted before, there is Nothing, truly no history to be had for a Palestinian people, before Arafat and the KGB created that nationality.

And just like the idea of letting the Jews go from the Arab conquered countries, it was all an idea to help destroy Israel.

Arabs never had a Palestinian identity before 1964, because there were no Palestinians, only Arabs.

What has Israel done in Palestine?

Made it bloom.  The Ottomans destroyed vast areas by removing all the trees.

And the Arabs for 500 years never fought the Ottomans, for any reason.  As long as it was a Muslim power.

The Muslims fought the British, because they were Christians, and they fight Israel because it is a Jewish Nation ON its ancient homeland.

The Arabs never fought Jordan, which took 78% of Palestine.  Because they are Muslims.

They will never fight for Jordan.  Only for the 20% of the Mandate which is in Jewish Hands.  As it should be.  As the rest of it also should have been, had it not been for the British, and the extreme Muslims who could not accept a sovereign Jewish Nation.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Can you find the same results about migration from the Arabian Peninsula in a non Arab source?
> 
> And why continue to assume that all who left the Arabian Peninsula were Arabs?
> 
> Are all from Europe German, or British, etc, etc.?  There were hundreds of tribes in each continent who eventually combined their forces and formed Nations, and eventually what can be called modern Countries.
> 
> Do you understand the difference I am referring to?
> 
> 
> Let me focus on some sentences from that article:
> 
> "As for the history of these migrations and the names of the groups that carried them, the *theorists *believe"
> 
> "Although the arguments of the theory of sublime migrations have become old and outdated, and that Western researchers use it with all scientific caution, this theory has remained in control of historical research in our Arab East,"
> 
> 
> My questions would be:
> 
> The whole article comes from theories?
> Are there no archeological proof for any of those theories?
> What is the purpose of writing any article based on theories?
> 
> 
> How does that disprove any Jewish claim of sovereignty to their ancient Homeland?



Of course they were Arabs or Arabu.. They sure weren't Russians or French. They began leaving the Arabian peninsula in waves 10,000 years go as Arabia became more arid and savanna became desert.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> I don't have a problem with Jewish people or their religion at all. I think Israel is in the wrong and spending waaaay too much time defending what they have done in Palestine.
> 
> Why don't you just slow down and read A Palestinian Christian Cry for Reconciliation?
> 
> Many of us are on your side.. Don't be afraid to read it.
> 
> The point is that Jewish history is NOT the only history in the region.






Please explain what these books, and others like them, written by very religious Christians, actually have to do with what the Palestinians decisions have been since 1920?

Muslim Arabs chose violence against Jews in order to keep them from reconstructing their nation on their Ancient homeland.  Many Arab Christians helped them on that.  Many Arab Christians were also victims of Muslim Arab violence.

Muslims and Christians and other religions have freedom of religion in Israel , something they did not have during the Ottoman rule, or even the Jordanian rule over Jerusalem.

What.....has Israel done to Palestine, but to free people to worship the way they want to worship and allow Jews and Christians to pray at their most important sites?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Of course they were Arabs or Arabu.. They sure weren't Russians or French. They began leaving the Arabian peninsula in waves 10,000 years go as Arabia became more arid and savanna became desert.


You keep assuming that all who came out of the Arabian Peninsula were Arabs.  They could not have been.  Just as in the Americas, people created nations, had different languages and cultures.

You have the tendency of putting them all under one umbrella.  As Arabs.

There is no archeological evidence of "waves" of people leaving the Peninsula 10,000 years ago. You are merely repeating was has been alleged recently about the 10,000 years idea.  I posted about it.

Jews have lived everywhere since migrating from Israel after Judaism was founded.  They are still indigenous to the land, it does not matter if they moved back to Israel from Malta, Spain, Brazil, anywhere in Asia, Europe or the Americas.  Greenland, Iceland, Australia.

Jews are indigenous of the Land of Israel, ancient Canaan, and they have every right to return there without Christians and Muslims telling them that they should not, and endless attempts to keep Jews from having their Nation, which was legally acquired. 

Unlike all the invaders all the way up to the British, the Jewish people are the only people with historical, cultural and extended presence on the land.


----------



## Sixties Fan

“During the 1948 war,” says letter-writer Bob Holden of Los Angeles, “the Israelis expelled more than half the Palestinian population (some 700,000) and seized their land and businesses without compensation.”

The Israelis expelled them? News to me and many others, including historians. The question of what happened to the Arabs living in Palestine in 1948, when five Arab armies swooped in to drive the Jews into the sea, has become muddled in recent years. Accusing Israel of forcing out most or all of the Palestinian Arabs is among numerous lies peddled by advocates for the Palestinians in recent years.

People like Holden usually neglect to mention that the Arabs started the war. If he did, he would probably resort to the justification in his letter: “You can’t come back after 1,700 years and destroy the peace of the current occupants merely because you want their stuff.”

*Palestinians have spent 73 years languishing in refugee camps: *It was not necessary. There were more than enough homes available in Arab countries. During Israel’s early years, these countries kicked out 800,000 Jews who were then taken in by Israel. This meant that these 800,000 Jews left behind dwellings that the Palestinians could have moved into, and the oil-rich Arab countries could have paid all expenses.

What Bennis and Holden neglect to mention is that the settlement-building could have ended long ago – especially when Prime Minister Ehud Barak proposed an independent state for the Palestinians during a summit in 2000 with Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat at Camp David. Arafat refused, and the killing on both sides continued. Barak’s successors took advantage of their interim control to expand settlements in the 'West Bank'.

*Refugees should be allowed to return to Israel: *The Israel government will not allow this because it will upset the demographic balance. If they left voluntarily or for other reasons that resulted from the Arab invasion, why should Israel allow them to return? Perhaps their resettlement should be administered by those who created the problem – like the Arab leadership.
---------
Bruce Ticker is correct to challenge letter writer Bob Holden’s claim that “during the 1948 war Israel expelled more than half the Palestinian population (some 700,00),”. In fact, the proof — as documented by contemporaneous Muslim and Arab journalists — is that the overwhelming percentage of Arabs who left their homes (not all did) did so at the urging of Arab leadership who anticipated a quick genocide of the Jewish people.

Even a cursory glance at contemporaneous Arab and Muslim newspapers and other Muslim media makes clear that it was Arab leaders who commanded the local Arab population to “flee” their homes in anticipation of the genocide of the Jews:


On April 3, 1949 the Near East Arabic Broadcasting Station reported: “It must not be forgotten that the Arab Higher Committee encouraged the refugees’ flight from their homes in Jaffa, Haifa and Jerusalem”.
(full article online)









						Past time for ‘Telling The Truth’ about Palestinian lies
					

The Israelis expelled them in 1948? It is confounding that Jews fail to challenge these kinds of lies in any substantial way. Op-ed.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Historians have long commented how to the West, Serbia promotes Jasenovac as part of the Jewish Holocaust, but in the Balkans, Jews have been removed from the Holocaust altogether and replaced with Serbs.

As Dr. Lea David, professor of Holocaust Studies at the University of Haifanoted, “The Serbian political elite then hijacked the images and symbols of the Holocaust in order to equate Serbian victims with Jewish victims, and promote Serbian righteous victimhood as enduring throughout the 1990s wars.

“Having established Serbs as victims of the Holocaust, the Serbian government then moved to sideline the roles of Serbian Communist partisan fighters and to rehabilitate quisling Chetnik members and other right-wing figures,” she says.

As the University of Otago’s David McDonald also noted in Globalizing the Holocaust: A Jewish “Useable Past” in Serbian Nationalism: “Holocaust imagery pushed the envelope, allowing Serbian nationalist goals to gain wider, more universal appeal. It could resonate with domestic Serbs and those in the Diaspora, as well as with Jews and non-Jews... where myths of Serbian and Jewish suffering were interwoven, providing a new series of national myths.”

As for the US Holocaust Museum, on its website, it admits “Determining the number of victims… for Jasenovac is highly problematic, due to the destruction of many relevant documents, the long-term inaccessibility to independent scholars of those documents that survived…”


So why quote figures if they are “highly problematic,” especially considering the museum is aware Yad Vashem throughout the 1990s repeatedly tried obtaining the original Jasenovac documents from Serbia but has been flat-out refused to this day? Just as puzzling was Yugoslavia’s decades-old assertion that more victims’ remains are “to be discovered,” yet during its 47-year rule of the site, it never bothered once to try and locate these mysterious “missing” remains.

Those who have conflated the only wartime concentration camp without any verifiable data with scientifically proven Holocaust facts have done immeasurable harm to Jewish history.

In this era of hyper-antisemitism and a world of increasing hatred of all things Jewish, it’s high time that everyone – especially Jews – stopped collaborating with malign actors to mock the Holocaust.


The author is an Australian writer and freelance journalist and director of the thegoldmanreport.org, a site dedicated to exposing Nazi collaborators and neo-Nazis living Down Under.

(full article online)





__





						Israel News - All Breaking News | The Jerusalem Post
					

The Jerusalem Post is Israel's most-read English news website and best-selling English newspaper bringing breaking news, world news & middle east news.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

(It is not only Jewish History the Palestinians are trying to destroy.  The British cannot be happy about this claim )


----------



## Sixties Fan

"If someone is doing this deliberately — knowing the history of the Holocaust, knowing that Jews almost uniformly would look at this as anti-Semitic — then this is no longer a conversation about vaccination, this is no longer a conversation about the right to protest or free speech. This is entirely a conversation about hate," said Rabbi Moishe Steigmann of the Congregation Cnesses Israel in Green Bay.

The First Amendment declares, among other things, that citizens of the United States have the right "peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." These rights did not exist for the 6 million Jewish people and 11 million additional people systematically murdered, he said. 

"You are championing here your right to protest. Jews and other people murdered in the Holocaust had no voice, they had no rights. They had everything taken away from them," Steigmann said. "To use that as an analogy for requiring vaccinations diminishes the history of the Holocaust. It makes insignificant those 6 million lives."

"These sorts of comparisons, invoking the Holocaust and applying it to different events and different facets of life has gotten pretty common," Abramson said. "It's very frustrating for those of us in the field who are trying to expand public knowledge of the Holocaust."

"It's not only offensive to the Holocaust victims, but it paints a very inaccurate picture of what the Holocaust was. It misrepresents both the Holocaust history and all the issues we are facing in today's world," Abramson said.

(full article online)









						Holocaust Comparisons Continue to Pop Up in Wisconsin  — StopAntisemitism
					

A state lawmaker who attended the rallies doubled down on the comparisons in an interview with the Green Bay Press-Gazette, asserting that "totalitarianism" has been even deadlier than the Holocaust.




					www.stopantisemitism.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

The BBC’s reporting on the Gaza conflict this year typifies its long-term bias against Israel. It constantly drew moral equivalence between Israel, a Western liberal democracy, and Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, both proscribed terrorist organizations whose status I never saw mentioned in BBC reports. There was no acknowledgement that the conflict had been initiated by these groups that openly seek the destruction of Israel or that without their violent actions, no Palestinians in Gaza or civilians in Israel would have died. Instead, the BBC maintained the fiction — pushed by the Palestinian side — that Israel’s actions in Jerusalem were the cause.

Nor did they mention that Hamas misappropriated millions of dollars of international aid to construct tunnels, rockets and other engines of war to attack Israeli civilians.

This biased journalism was crowned by commentary direct from Jeremy Bowen, whose report from Gaza at the end of the conflict looked more like pro-Hamas propaganda than objective reporting. This was true to form. In an article written by Bowen after the last major conflagration in Gaza in 2014, he said: “I saw no evidence… of Israel’s accusation that Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields.”

This despite universally recognised evidence that human shields are Hamas’s consistent tactic against Israel, as proudly admitted on more than one occasion by Hamas leader Fathi Hamad and confirmed again in May in a speech to the UN Security Council by Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process Tor Wennesland.

Why so much emphasis on Bowen’s role? Because all BBC reporting on the Israel-Palestinian conflict for more than 15 years has been driven, above all, by his editorial influence. According to British newspaper The Independent:
-----
I do not blame Bowen for the influence he wields, I blame the BBC executives that allow him, with his history, to hold a position that dominates the coverage of the world’s largest broadcast media corporation. But of course he fits well into an organization infected with such a blatantly biased agenda on Israel. During the 2021 Gaza conflict, according to the UK’s Jewish Chronicle, following complaints the BBC had to issue corrections eight times in their Arabic news coverage alone.

Over the years, many BBC staff have betrayed their own bias both in their reports and on social media. For example, this year the BBC was forced to fire journalist Tala Halawa after a tweet she had written before being hired by the BBC was brought to their attention by media watchdog Honest Reporting. She wrote: “Israel is more Nazi than Hitler! Oh, Hitler was right, IDF go to hell.”

Senior BBC producer Alaa Daraghme recently shared a video on Twitter about “an Israeli settler ramming a Palestinian man near the Lions’ Gate” in the Old City of Jerusalem. In fact, the video showed a car being driven onto the sidewalk after an attempt by Palestinians to lynch the driver, who then lost control. There are many other such cases of bias and distortion among BBC staff.

There is little likelihood, without firm intervention by the British government, that the BBC will relinquish its leadership of the global anti-Israel movement that has contributed to so much suffering, misery and bloodshed. As British journalist Melanie Phillips writes: “It is no exaggeration to say that when it to comes to Israel, the issue is not BBC bias. It is BBC incitement to baseless hatred.”

(full article online)









						BBC: Leading the World Against Israel and Jews | United with Israel
					

This biased journalism was crowned by commentary direct from Jeremy Bowen, whose report from Gaza at the end of the conflict looked more like pro-Hamas propaganda than objective reporting.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

(Hebron, where there has been Jewish presence for over 3000 years, except from 1929 to 1967 when Jews were massacred and then expelled "belongs" to the Palestinians )

Members of the Joint List party, headed by Ayman Odeh, met on Saturday with Hebron Mayor Tayseer Abu Sneineh and discussed with him the Israeli activity in the "Ibrahimi Mosque" (the Islamic name for the Cave of the Patriarchs) which, according to a report by the Palestinian Authority’s official _Wafa_ news agency, is meant to change the historical characteristics of the site.

At the meeting, Abu Sneineh noted that the visit of the Knesset members of the Joint List sends a message about the unity of the homeland and the people in all the Palestinian territories, and claimed that the "occupation" began to implement the “Judaization plans” of the site through the work to make the place accessible to the disabled.

According to the report in _Wafa_, the Joint List MKs said that "this entire land and what is in it belong to the Palestinian people" and that the current phase requires a "serious position of the (Arab) public".

(full article online)









						Joint List MKs in Hebron: All this land belongs to the Palestinians
					

MKs from Joint List visit Hebron to gather information against Israeli policy, which they will pass on to international organizations.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

But the Haret el-Yahud neighborhood had already spread through Hret al-Sharaf during the 19th century as more Jews moved into the Old City.





But modern antisemites hate Jews so much that they refuse to admit that there was a Haret el-Yahud, and you can find webpages showing absurd things like these:







As it was, there were plenty of Jews who lived outside the Jewish quarter. 32% of Jewish families lived in the Muslim quarter, and at least one of the neighborhoods of that quarter - the al-Wad neighborhood to the northwest of the Temple Mount - was majority Jewish in the 1905 census.

(full article online)









						Palestinian media claim there was never a Jewish Quarter in Jerusalem
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sixties Fan said:


> both proscribed terrorist organizations whose status I never saw mentioned in BBC reports.


It was the Israelis who coined the phrase “terrorists”.
These Zionists were the first to---

Assassinate political leaders
Haganah terrorists threw bombs murdered anyone who resisted them
Blew up the King David Hotel
Israel Defense Force (IDF) assassinated children using IDF snipers
Irgun gang toss bombs into buses and homes.
The above is just the tip of the iceberg, they were and remain terrorists, coining the phrase.
-


----------



## rylah

watchingfromafar said:


> It was the Israelis who coined the phrase “terrorists”.
> These Zionists were the first to---
> 
> Assassinate political leaders
> Haganah terrorists threw bombs murdered anyone who resisted them
> Blew up the King David Hotel
> Israel Defense Force (IDF) assassinated children using IDF snipers
> Irgun gang toss bombs into buses and homes.
> The above is just the tip of the iceberg, they were and remain terrorists, coining the phrase.
> -



The above is just the tip of the iceberg,
of just how pathetic is the anti-Israel propaganda.

But I guess if they hanged gays in the main square you call them freedom fighters.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledge Israel's ‎right to exist. In a recent TV program, children were taught that Israel's entire coast is ‎part of “Palestine” and its “gateway to the world.” Israeli ports Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, ‎Ashdod, and Ashkelon were listed as part of the “Palestinian coastal plain” that has ‎been “under Israeli occupation since 1948”: ‎













(full article online)









						PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎ | PMW Analysis
					

The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledge Israel's ‎right to exist.




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian children who were born decades after Israel’s establishment in 1948 and decades after the Oslo Accords peace agreement are being educated by the PA to envision themselves as residents of the cities “stolen by the Jews,” and as “refugees” temporarily living in the Palestinian territories. They are brought up to believe that in the future they will “liberate Palestine” and live in a world with no Israel.

This was made clear on a children’s program named _A Child and a Refugee Camp_ on official PA TV. Palestinian kids were taught, through the words of a 12-year-old boy, to see themselves as suffering victims of “the Jews” - not “the Israelis” who were not mentioned at all. However, the children were taught that this is a state of temporary suffering only, because their “return” to “Palestine”- meaning all of Israel - is assured.

The 12-year-old boy was interviewed about his “yearning” for Lod – an Israeli city. He told the TV host that he dreams about the airport which was “Judaized and called Ben Gurion [Airport],” by what he calls “the occupation” - the Palestinian term for the entire State of Israel. Finally, the 12-year-old expressed his hope and confidence that “tomorrow” the Palestinians “will return and liberate Palestine”:

(full article online)









						Palestinian kids taught to identify as “refugees” about to “return” to Israeli cities | PMW Analysis
					

Palestinian children who were born decades after Israel’s establishment in 1948 and decades after the Oslo Accords peace agreement are being educated by the PA to envision themselves as residents of the cities “stolen by the Jews,” and as “refugees” temporarily living in the Palestinian territories.




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

One of the people credited with having produced that report — Quique Kierszenbaum — is not a BBC employee but an “independent documentary photographer and videographer based in Jerusalem.”

Two years ago, he collaborated with the foreign-funded political NGO “Breaking the Silence” to produce an overtly political photo exhibition in Tel Aviv.

Next, here’s the August 12th BBC Radio 4 program, “Crossing Continents”:
--
Similar points were echoed by an August 13th written item on the BBC News website: “The murderous crime wave sweeping Israel’s Arabs.”

A recurring theme promoted in all three stories is the claim that Israel’s police force does not do enough to tackle crime within the Arab sector.

In the audio versions of this story, listeners hear an interviewee — political activist Maisam Jaljuli — claim that:
--
None of Knell’s reports provides a comprehensive view of the investments made by previous Israeli governments in the Arab sector. And in her reports, that subject is inaccurately presented as though it were something novel.
----
Listeners to the audio versions of the report are told by MK Aida Touma-Sliman of the Joint List that organized crime moved into “our villages and towns” after “ten or fifteen years ago Israeli police managed to oppress Israeli organized crime in Jewish cities.”



The notion that organized crime in the Arab sector — particularly in the form of protection rackets and extortion — is at most a decade and a half old is of course not supported by the historical record.

Additionally, none of Knell’s reports discuss other relevant topics such as the high numbers of illegal firearms in Arab communities, or the prevalence of violence against women or issues such as “honor” and “extended family” (hamoula).

Knell’s audio reports do, however, repeatedly seek to create linkage between crime in the Arab sector and Israel’s creation:
-------
(full article online)









						Analysis: Media Uses False Narrative About Arab Israelis to Slander the Jewish State | United with Israel
					

Rather than digging deeply into violence blighting Arab-Israeli communities, BBC News promotes a jaded political narrative blaming Israel for discrimination.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

The director of the mosque at the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron, Sheikh Hefzy Abu Sneina, now claims that his mosque is the fourth holiest mosque in Islam after the Al-Haram in Mecca, the Al-Nabawi mosque in Medina and the Al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem. He says that it contains Islamic sanctities and the tombs of their prophets, "which proves the right of Palestinians and Muslims to it and denies any Israeli claims of their rights in it. "

Even though the prophets buried there have nothing to do with Islam, with the exception of Abraham, but everything to do with Judaism.

The Jewish ties to Hebron have given the Ibrahimi Mosque some holiness inflation, it seems. 

I have not seen the Hebron mosque listed as the fourth holiest in any other source.
https://guardian.ng/life/7-holiest-sites-in-islam/
This article in The Guardian says that #4 is Imam Ali in Iraq, #5 is the Dome of the Rock, #6 is Great Mosque of Djenne in Mali and #7 is the Quba Mosque in Medina. Hebron isn't mentioned.

This site lists the Quba mosque as #4. 

Wikipedia gives three sources saying that the Umayyad Mosque in Damascus is the fourth holiest site in Islam. 

So how did the mosque in Hebron rocket to the top of the charts? (No one will argue about 1,2 or 3, although Shiite Muslims used to rate Al Aqsa as #5, behind Najaf and Karbala.) 

It seems that the holier Jews consider a site, the more Muslims want to take it away from Jews. It happens in Jerusalem, in Hebron, in Bethlehem, in Shechem (Nablus.) 

(full article online)









						Muslims upgrade Hebron site to "fourth holiest mosque in Islam" to keep Jews away
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Mindful

Afghanistan is the last place you’d expect to find any trace of a Jewish past, especially given the Islamization of most of the country over the past two decades by the ruthless Taliban. Yet, up until the assassination of King Nadir Shah in 1933, the country had been remarkably tolerant towards Jews for over a thousand years. Major Afghan cities such as Herat and Kabul were once safe-havens for Jews fleeing persecution in other lands. The Jews of Afghanistan once numbered in the thousands and enjoyed peace and prosperity.

Today there is only one Jew left in Afghanistan. His name is Zablon Simintov and he lives in Kabul. His story has made the rounds in the international media and it is at once tragic and inspiring. Simintov, born in Turkmenistan, lives in the capital city of Kabul on the top floor of Afghanistan’s last functioning shul on Flower Street. He rents out the bottom floor to several businesses including his own, the Balkh Bastan cafe. He used to deal in carpets and antiquities until government officials confiscated his merchandise.

Simintov’s family have all emigrated to Israel and he lives alone in the shul. The shul’s Torah scroll was stolen years ago by the Taliban and the shul is in disrepair. Simintov gets along quite well with his neighbors, all of whom who treat him respectfully.

When asked why he doesn’t want to move to Israel, Simintov responded “Go to Israel? What business do I have there? I won’t let Jewish history die in Afghanistan.”









						The Jewish History of Afghanistan - aish.com
					

Afghanistan is the last place you’d expect to find any trace of a Jewish past, especially given the Islamization of most of the country over the past two decades by the ruthless Taliban. Yet, up until the assassination of King Nadir Shah in 1933, the country had been remarkably tolerant towards...




					www.aish.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

First, responding to the anchorperson’s question regarding an alleged “act of intrusion into al-Aqsa Mosque,” correspondent Layla Odeh used the same false language, fallaciously charging that “settlers” entered the mosque, thereby sparking clashes between Israeli security forces and Muslim protesters. But as CNN’s corrected Arabic report made clear, the Jewish visitors to the Temple Mount did not enter a single building; none of them “intruded” anywhere. In addition, their place of residence is unknown (and altogether irrelevant to what had happened), and therefore the pejorative label of “settlers” is unfounded.

Moreover, Odeh absurdly claimed that the Jews’ visit was the sole instance of violence that day. In fact, the Jews’ visit to the compound was non-violent, while the Muslims’ response to the visit — stone-throwing —  was clearly violent. She further whitewashed the Muslim violence by referring to the stone-throwers as “Jerusalemites practicing _Ribat_” (1:36). This Islamic term referring to a voluntary act of self-defense protecting an outpost against non-Muslims is regularly used in Arab media to dress up violence as a religious act, especially in Jerusalem.

Finally, Odeh referred to Israeli Arabs protesters as “Palestinians from the 1948 territories.” This terminology, used by France 24 Arabic not for the first time, delegitimizes the State of Israel in its entirety, even within boundaries recognized by the international community, France included.

(full article online)









						In Arabic, France 24's Jerusalem Coverage Is Abysmal
					

Correspondent Layla Odeh falsely charges that 'settlers' entered the Al-Aqsa mosque, miscasts a peaceful Jewish visit to the Temple Mount as violent, and ignores




					www.camera.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

In the 1920s, the notoriously antisemitic Mufti of Jerusalem - appointed by the British - built his power base by raising money in the Arab world for restoration of the Al Aqsa Mosque and Dome of the Rock, which had fallen into disrepair under 400 years of Ottoman Muslim rule. 

Part of his sales pitch was that the Jews intended to destroy the mosque to build a third Temple. He would take statements by rabbinic leaders in Palestine about the Messianic era and pretend that Jews were planning to demolish the structures on the Temple Mount.

This was a powerful message that the antisemitic Arab world eagerly accepted. It was the lie that was at the root of the deadly 1929 massacres of Jews. 

The 1931 Muslim Congress in Jerusalem, led by the Mufti, neatly tied together his lie about the "Jewish designs" on Al Aqsa and his antisemitism, as he banned any Jewish reporters from covering the conference.

Every August 21, the lie reaches a fever pitch on the anniversary of the attack on Al Aqsa by mentally ill Australian Christian named Denis Michael Rohan. 

Palestinian Arab media usually flatly lies and says that Rohan was Jewish and that this arson was part of a Zionist plot to destroy Al Aqsa. 

This lie is a reliable means to inflame Arab passions, fueled by Arab antisemitism. It is especially useful when Palestinian leaders want to divert attention from their own failures and their own people's problems, by using their Jew-hatred as a political tool - just as the Mufti did a century ago.

Hamas will hold a mass rally at the Gaza fence tomorrow, using this anniversary as an excuse to fire up Gazans with hate. The Hamas Youth Department issued a statement:

------
The narrative is that Palestinian "steadfastness" is what has kept the Jews from destroying the buildings so far, so the antisemitism must be stoked to "defend" Al Aqsa from an imaginary threat. 

The entire history of the lie is tied to Jew-hatred. 

(full article online)









						For 100 years, Arabs have lied that Jews are about to demolish Al Aqsa
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com
				




(full article online)









						For 100 years, Arabs have lied that Jews are about to demolish Al Aqsa
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

BBC campaigning on the topic of neighbourhoods in what it terms “East Jerusalem” continued on August 16th with the appearance on the BBC News website’s ‘Middle East’ page of a filmed report by Anastassia Zlatopolskaititled “Why is Israel demolishing homes in East Jerusalem?”.

“The demolition of houses built without planning permission in East Jerusalem is seen by some Palestinians as an attempt to drive them out – but Israel says it is trying to keep the city in order.”

Most of that 3:10 minute film features one woman who is presented to audiences as “Amani Mousa Odeh, resident of Silwan, East Jerusalem”. Viewers are not informed that Odeh is active in an organisation called ‘Save Silwan Campaign’ and another called the ‘Neighborhood Defense Committee’ and that she frequently promotes the messaging of those political campaign groups in English language media.

The film opens with a backdrop of images of a demolished structure.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




BBC: “This is all that’s left of Amani’s cousin’s house. It was recently demolished by the Israeli government for being built without a permit. And Amani fears her own house could be next.”

Odeh: “Everyone thinks that one day he will be in the shoes of the owner of the house. This land was inherited from his grandfather and [great] grandfather. And when he go to the municipality in order to have permission for the building, they refused to give him [it].”

BBC: “Her cousin’s house was demolished on 10 August this year. East Jerusalem has been under Israeli occupation since 1967. Demolitions and forced evictions are illegal under international law.”

As ever, the BBC makes no effort to inform audiences of the fact that “East Jerusalem” was illegally occupied by Jordan between 1948-1967 or of its inclusion in the territory assigned by the League of Nations to the creation of a Jewish homeland. Following on from BBC’s partial portrayal of that area as being “under Israeli occupation” – rather than disputed – is an equally one-sided portrayal of “international law”, with no attempt whatsoever made to inform viewers of alternative legal opinions on the issue.  

BBC: “Building permits are very difficult to get in East Jerusalem and Palestinians say it’s almost impossible for them to get them. Amani built a house despite multiple failed applications and like many in the Silwan neighbourhood now faces losing it.”

No effort is made to remind viewers that in many countries around the world a person who built a house without planning permission would similarly be served with what is known in the UK as an enforcement notice and would ‘face losing it’.

(full article online)









						Another chapter in BBC campaigning on Silwan
					

Just six days after previous reports on the topic, the BBC produced another superficial campaign piece on illegal construction in Silwan.




					camera-uk.org


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## Sixties Fan

(No, there are no blood Jews left around the world.  All who live in the Americas, Europe, Asia, Australia, anywhere in the world......are all newly converted Jews.
If Christians and Muslims say so, it must be so.

Except, that they have only been saying it since Jews acquired the legal right to reinstate, recreate, reconstruct their Nation on their ancient homeland, and there are Jews from ALL over the world, who had moved to all of those points of the world centuries and thousands of years ago from their ancient land of Israel.

But for all "Zionist" effects, although it was only Jews returning home from Europe who at first were not called "real Jews" it is more than clear now that the intention is to call all Jews "Zionists" stop that ALL JEWS will become targets of the faux anger targeted towards Israel for having "stolen" "Palestinian land", when history more than betrays this notion.  Arabs themselves, before WWI, have always knows that they were living on the Jewish homeland, and never thought of themselves as "Palestinians" until Arafat and the KGB coined that nationality in 1964 in order to use it to destroy Israel.  

Muslims think that they have the "Right"  to destroy Jewish history, and all Jews with it.  )


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## Sixties Fan

Anyone who only watched the “Jerusalem” series, and knew nothing about history, would come away with the notion that little of significance to Jerusalem occurred in the 1920s and 30s. The narrative created for the period is simply that the Palestinians were leaderless as the British repressed Palestinian Arab nationalism. Viewers would likewise conclude the only relevance of Jerusalem to Jews at the time was that some were fleeing from Nazi Germany, as opposed to the fact that Jews actually constituted a majority in the city.

They would have no idea who the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was, his role as a leader of Palestinian Arab nationalism, and his incitement of repeated rounds of deadly, anti-Jewish violence which defined the 1920s and 30s in Jerusalem and Mandate Palestine as a whole.

These problematic omissions are best shown in a few quotes from Part 5 of the series:


“But the British were more heavy-handed against [the] Palestinian population, and definitely against Palestinian leaders, who occasionally, they would arrest and exile. All in order to disrupt _any possible creation of political leadership among the Palestinians _[emphasis added].” (Suleiman Mourad)
“By the early 1940s, Britain has either arrested or driven the Palestinian Arab leadership into exile.” (Narrator)
“So the Palestinians had no formal leadership on the ground…” (Amaney Jamal)
These repeated assertions omit the leadership role the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini, would play in fomenting bloodshed in the years ahead.

_Assassinations_​While laying blame solely on the British for a lack of Arab leadership – all while ignoring the leadership role of the Grand Mufti – CNN also ignored al-Husseini’s campaign of assassinations against the rest of the Palestinian Arab leadership during that period. As historian Simon Sebag Montefiore relates, during the Arab Revolt, al-Husseini was “seemingly more interested in murdering his Palestinian rivals than the British or Jews… [H]e ordered assassinations that in two years of fratricide wiped out many of his most decent and moderate compatriots.”[9] One of the most prominent examples was the assassination of Fakhri Nashashibi, the pre-eminent Nashashibi clan member who was known for creating the “peace squads” to reduce violence and calm tensions.[10]

It wasn’t until 1937 that al-Husseini, and much of the AHC leadership, would be exiled after the assassination of a British district commissioner. Even this did not stop al-Husseini, though, as he “continued to direct the Palestine insurgency” from his exile in Beirut.[11] The violence of the Arab Revolt succeeded in prompting the British to issue a “White Paper” in 1939 that rejected the idea of partition and severely limited Jewish immigration and land purchases. The measure came at the direst of times for Jews facing extermination by the Nazi regime, dooming to death untold numbers who could not reach safety Palestine. In seeking to improve relations with the Arab population, the British even offered al-Husseini amnesty in exchange for his acquiescence to the White Paper.[12]

When the series finally gets to the United Nations partition vote in 1947, it repeatedly claims that:


“There [was] no Palestinian representative at the UN. There was no formal leadership. You had Arab leaders speaking on behalf of Palestinians, but not necessarily speaking from within the Palestinian communities themselves.” (Amaney Jamal)
“From the Palestinian perspective, they were not responsible for the Holocaust. They were not in Europe. They have to, sort of, pay the price for what the world stood by and watched in terms of this horrendous massacre of an entire race. And nobody is really speaking on their behalf.” (Amaney Jamal)
“Operating without Palestinian Arab input, the other Arab leaders reject the United Nations [partition] resolution.” (narrator).
Once again, Palestinian Jewry is virtually nonexistent in CNN’s narrative, which even manages to make the Holocaust about the Palestinians and their alleged voicelessness.

The claims of a lack of representation are, at best, a half-truth. Palestinian Arabs had as much of a voice at the UN as Palestinian Jewry did, but with the important advantage of numerous allied Arab states that wielded voting power. In advancing the claim, CNN recasts Palestinian Arab intransigence, in the form of absolutist rejection of compromise, as one of victimhood and exclusion. In reality, the Palestinian Arabs often intentionally excluded themselves from the conversation.

-------
While it is acknowledged in the “Jerusalem” series that there were, at the time, numerous Arab member states with voting power in the UN, CNN downplays this by suggesting they “did not take [Palestinian Arab] interests at heart.” It’s never explained why that would matter, since both the AHC and the voting Arab member states espoused the exact same position.

The AHC had all along made clear that it was only willing to accept an “independent unitary [Arab] state.” AHC vice-president Jamal al-Husseini explicitly stated to the UN the opposition of AHC to anything but a single Arab state. This exact position was what the Arab member states advanced. Every single one voted against the UNSCOP partition plan.

------
The bizarre downplaying of the support the Palestinian Arabs received from Arab member states at the UN looks even worse when juxtaposed with the complete absence of any discussion so far in the CNN series on the challenges Palestinian Jewry had in making their case to the UN. While the Jewish Agency was afforded the same opportunities as the AHC at the UN, they were at a distinct disadvantage. The Jewish Agency did not have a bloc of voting Jewish states – as none existed – to rely on for support like the AHC did with the Arab League.

(full article online)









						CNN Mangles Jerusalem's History
					

Beginning on July 18, CNN has been airing each Sunday a new, six-part series entitled “Jerusalem: City of Faith and Fury.” As of this




					www.camera.org


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## Sixties Fan

Stating definitively that Israel’s founding was the result of the Holocaust is a fallacy even though the extermination of 6 million Jews by Nazi Germany during WWII did, in fact, cause many people to sympathize with the millennia-long plight of the Jewish people. But the notion that this was the primary catalyst for the international community’s step-wise process towards establishing a Jewish state confuses correlation with causation.

First of all, the Jewish connection to the Land of Israel dates back at least 3,000 years. This is not Biblical conjecture, but rather confirmed by a myriad of archeological findings.

Fast forward to the late 19th century, when the first organized wave of Jewish migration to what is present-day Israel began. By the 1880s, Jews were already laying the foundations of a future sovereign state. During World War I, in the waning days of the Ottoman Empire, which had for 400 years ruled much of the Middle East – including the territory encompassing modern-day Israel – the Zionist cause was embraced by the British government.

Around the same time that Adolph Hitler served as a lance corporal in the Bavarian Army, then-British prime minister David Lloyd George expressed public support for Zionism. On November 2, 1917, the Balfour Declaration, produced by British Foreign Secretary Arthur Balfour, formalized London’s policy and explicitly called for the creation of a Jewish homeland.  

There were a multitude of geopolitical considerations that influenced this historic decision, including the British government’s hope that such a declaration would help gain Jewish support for the Allies in neutral countries during World War I. Additionally, the region that just years later would constitute British-ruled Mandatory Palestine was coveted by 10 Downing Street as it would act as land bridge between the British-governed territories of India and Egypt. 

Nevertheless, the belief in the righteousness of the Zionist cause held by Lloyd George and many other leaders was genuine. 

The confluence of the Jewish people’s ancient connection to the Land of Israel, the Zionist movement’s monumental efforts to re-establish a Jewish state and a complex array of geopolitical factors are responsible for Israel’s creation. And this was likely to happen had the Holocaust never been perpetrated.

By failing to explain this reality, Associated Press, whose work is republished by more than 1,300 newspapers and broadcasters across the globe, has, inadvertently or not, framed the near-miraculous actualization through perseverance and hard work of the Jewish people’s 2000-years-longing into a sort of “consolation prize”- gifted by a world that turned a blind eye to the horrors of the Holocaust.

(full article online)









						Israel Was Not Created Because of Holocaust, Rather Ancient Jewish Roots & Modern Determination | Honest Reporting
					

An August 16 Associated Press article by Vanessa Gera titled, Poland keeps ambassador at home amid dispute with Israel, describes the diplomatic dustup




					honestreporting.com


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## Sixties Fan

(Vide others online)


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

I debunked this claim in 2016, but here is some more proof.

The Survey of Western Palestine, Special Papers on Topography, Archaeology, Manners and Customs, Etc · Volume 4, By Palestine Exploration Fund · 1881, quotes a 7th century observer of large pine forests in the center of the land of Israel:





From Underground Jerusalem: An Account of Some of the Principal Difficulties Encountered in Its Exploration and the Results Obtained. With a Narrative of an Expedition Through the Jordan Valley and a Visit to the Samaritans, by Sir Charles Warren, 1876:





In The Trees and Plants Mentioned in the Bible by William Howse Grosser, 1895, we learn that the Aleppo (Jerusalem) pine was the most popular tree in Palestine:





The people who claim that the pine tree is a recent import also tend to think that Jews themselves were only recently introduced to the region. They are equally wrong in both assertions. 

(full article online)









						The pine tree is indigenous to Israel - it is not a Western implant - and has been there for millennia
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Mindful

“We came from Herat in Afghanistan," explains Ahoova Gol Zeffren, a Hebrew and Judaic studies teacher who currently lives in Los Angeles. In a recent Aish.com interview, Ahoova discussed her family’s illustrious Jewish Afghan heritage.

Herat was a major Jewish center for close to 300 years. Ahoova traces her family roots to the nearby Iranian city of Mashhad. Home to a sizeable Jewish community in the 1700s and 1800s, local officials in Mashhad began persecuting Jews violently and forced Jews to convert to Islam. Many of Mashhad's Jews fled to Herat where they built a thriving Jewish community.





Ahoova's family in their sukkah in Herat, Afghanistan. She is the baby held by her mother.

There were four large Jewish populations in Afghanistan, Ahoova explains: Herat, Kandahar, Balkh, and Kabul, the capital. The Jewish community was “very orthodox,” she says. “There were lots of synagogues and yeshivas."
“For ten generations my father’s family were chief rabbis,” Ahoova says. One of her most famous forbearers was Rabbi Chacham Mula Matitya Gargi (1845-1917), who wrote a famous commentary on the Talmud called _Oneg L’Shabbat_. He served as Chief Rabbi of Herat. He was so revered that his leadership extended as far afield as the Jewish communities of Uzbekistan and Tashkent.









						Reflections of an Afghan Jew - aish.com
					

“We came from Herat in Afghanistan," explains Ahoova Gol Zeffren, a Hebrew and Judaic studies teacher who currently lives in Los Angeles. In a recent Aish.com interview, Ahoova discussed her family’s illustrious Jewish Afghan heritage. Herat was a major Jewish center for close to 300 years...




					www.aish.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

India for Indians. Russia for Russians. Mongolia for Mongolians—some outer, some inner. Austria for Austrians. Guatemala for Guatemalans. Cuba for Cubans. Sounds right.
Somewhere along the litany it would make sense to say: Yehuda for Yehudim—i.e., Judea for Jews. Even antisemites would find it hard to get behind slogans such as “Ban Jews from Judea! Jews Never Lived in Judea!” The Jews (Yehudim in Hebrew) of the tribe of Judah (Yehudah) gave the land of Yehudah its name: Judea, as transliterated in the King James Version of the Bible.

It has always been preposterous to call Judea and Samaria the “West Bank.” Think of the most famous locations in the Bible: Jerusalem, Hebron, Bethlehem, Nazareth, Beth El, Jericho, Shiloh, Shechem (Nablus), Galilee, Tekoa—all the places where the Jewish patriarchs and matriarchs, the kings and prophets walked and lived. Jesus and the Apostles, too. Their lives all centered in Judea and in Samaria. Those terms are all over the Bible, with more than 100 mentions just of “Samaria” in the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) and in the Christian Gospels.

Visit virtually any of the 140 Jewish communities where 800,000 Jews now reside in Judea and Samaria, and you will not see any river banks. It is not like Jersey City, New Jersey, which is on the west bank of the Hudson River. No one calls Jersey City “the West Bank.” Why not? Too much history there? Too many biblical memories of Moses and Aaron buying shoes at Journal Square or using the PATH trains at the Grove Street station?

The Arab world and their  allies have no problem calling every other location in the Middle East by their biblical names: Beersheva, Galilee, Jordan River, Gaza, Damascus, Lebanon, Tyre, Sidon and of course Jerusalem, Hebron, Bethlehem and Nazareth. Even Americans comfortably employ biblical names for so many of their cities: Hebron, Maryland; the Jericho Turnpike, New York; Bethel, Indiana; the Battle of Shiloh, Tennessee; Manassas (Menashe), Virginia.

Judea and Samaria—Yehuda and Shomron—should be called by their real names and not by the ersatz  term that seeks to divest 800,000 Jews now living there of their heritage and of their land. When a newborn child is due to arrive, think of the hours, the contemplating, even the inter-family wrangling and negotiating that often precede naming the newcomer. Names have great power and meaning. That is why Israel’s enemies call Judea and Samaria “The West Bank.”

And why we should call it Judea and Samaria.

(full article online)









						Why Rename Judea and Samaria?
					

A view shows Palestinian houses in the West Bank village of Wadi Fukin as the Israeli settlement of Beitar Illit …




					www.algemeiner.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

One Jewish UNC student I interviewed trembled on the phone as she talked about widespread hostility on campus. The student will not allow me to publicly share her story, even anonymously, because she fears the backlash and anger she would face on campus.

Evyatar Marienberg, a faculty member at UNC’s Carolina Center for Jewish Studies, responded to me, via email, noting Broderick’s “extreme biases” and described people like Broderick as having “the disease of misrepresenting realities” and “simple old antisemitism.”

This current teaching scandal is unfolding as UNC is still reeling from a 2019 scandal when the university hosted and co-sponsored the “Conflict Over Gaza” conference, which made international news for featuring a rapper’s blatantly antisemitic performance.

In response to an antisemitism complaint filed with the US Department of Education stemming from this conference, UNC entered into a Resolution Agreement with the department’s Office of Civil Rights, requiring UNC “to ensure that students enrolled in the University are not subjected to a hostile environment.”

Kylie Broderick publicly dismissed this Resolution Agreement in a local paper, calling it an “attack by the federal government.” Yet UNC still stands by her.

On May 19, 2021, the same three UNC departments that are sponsoring Broderick’s Israel/Palestine course, co-sponsored an anti-Israel Zoom event with Jadaliyya, a pro-Palestinian advocacy organization and publishing outlet.

Broderick is managing editor at Jadaliyya. Broderick and Sarah Shields – the currentand recent Israel/Palestine UNC course instructors – moderated the event.

During one of the event’s anti-Israel rants, a speaker accused Israel of “settler colonialism”and “persistent ethnic cleansing,” spoke of an “Israeli war machine,” and said “hurling rocks” at Israelis should not be considered terrorism, but rather rational behavior. The speaker also promoted the BDS boycott movement, and called Israel an “apartheid” state.

The chancellor and other senior UNC administrators are obligated by the Resolution Agreement “to ensure that students enrolled in the University are not subjected to a hostile environment.” Having a known Israel-hater — who tweets about “Zionist dirtbags” and promotes the view that Israel should not exist — teach a course on Israel is indeed a hostile environment.

(full article online)









						UNC Violates Government Agreement by Promoting Antisemitism In Classroom
					

Manning Hall at the University of North Carolina. Photo: benuski / flickr. The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill …




					www.algemeiner.com


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## Sixties Fan

The inclusion of this statement was curiously absent from an op-ed on the row published in the _Guardian_ by FA, (“Our art deals with real injustices, some in Palestine: no wonder we faced opposition”, Aug. 20th).

After spending the first few paragraphs of their _Guardian_ op-ed attacking UK Lawyers for Israel*, a highly reputable mainstream Jewish group which fights BDS and other efforts to undermine Israel’s right to exist, and detailing some of their other projects, the op-ed eventually pivots the the matter at hand:



> In May, as we worked on the [Manchester] exhibition, the latest round of Israeli attacks on Gaza began.


As you can see, the group isn’t even trying to be factual or objective, omitting the fact that the “Israeli attacks on Gaza” only began after Hamas decided to launch an unprovoked volley of rockets on Jerusalem.  In fact, the word “Hamas” doesn’t appear anywhere in the op-ed.

It continues:



> Attacks extended also to art institutions: our close friend the Palestinian artist Emily Jacir sent us videos of Israeli forces raiding Dar Jacir, a vital independent artist-run space in Bethlehem.


The FA writer(s) fail to acknowledge that the, in response to inquiries from _The New York Times_ in July, IDF officials “denied any knowledge of a raid or seizure of equipment.”

The lies continue:



> Our statement, whose inclusion in the exhibition had been approved during its planning stages by the Whitworth’s curators, was written as these attacks were happening. We used terms such as “ethnic cleansing” and “apartheid” to describe the policies of the Israeli government in Palestine, because such characterisations describe the reality of Palestinian life  and are in keeping with the language of major Israeli and international human rights organisations…


Though you can read CAMERA’s in-depth rebuttal of Human Rights Watch’s apartheid lie, contrary to the op-ed’s suggestion, the reports alluded to, by Human Rights Watch and B’tselem, did NOT accuse Israel of “ethnic cleansing”, or even use the term.

Moreover, whether they’re referring to Palestinians in east Jerusalem, the West Bank or Gaza (or Arab citizens of Israel), the charge of “ethnic cleansing” against Israel is counter-factual, ahistorical and completely propagandistic. It’s also clearly contradicted by population statistics demonstrating consistent _increases in_ Palestinian residents in these geographic areas.

They also make the following charge, defending their charge that Israel is a “settler colonial” state:

(full article online)









						The Guardian again promotes Forensic Architecture's anti-Israel vitriol
					

The University of Manchester on Wednesday reversed a decision to remove a statement of solidarity with Palestine’s “liberation struggle” from an exhibitio




					camera-uk.org


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

The ongoing controversy centered on the Polish president’s approval this month of legislation that shuts down Holocaust-era restitution claims should be understood as part of a long-running campaign by the Polish state to rewrite the history of World War II as a narrative of Polish victimhood, a group of leading historians gathered by The Algemeiner concluded during an extensive panel discussion.
The four scholars have all published extensively on the Holocaust in Poland. Over 90 percent of that country’s Jewish population were exterminated, accounting for nearly half of the six million Jewish victims of the Nazi genocide. All of the scholars have countered the revisionist historical campaign waged by the current nationalist government in Poland, often facing legal challenges and obstacles along the way.

In a discussion that focused on the historical aspects of the recent collapse in relations between Israel, Poland and top Jewish organizations in the wake of the restitution legislation, every participant stressed that the real purpose of the recent reform to the Code of Administrative Procedure — as well as the 2018 IPN Act, which allows for civil prosecutions of historians who research the phenomenon of Polish collusion with the Nazis — was to help transform the Holocaust from a Jewish trauma into a Polish one.

The success of that narrative, they observed, depends in large part on excluding from historical inquiry the topic of the collusion between elements of the population in Poland, a country with a long history of antisemitic agitation, with the Nazi persecution of the Jews.

(full article online)









						‘This Is Unprecedented’: Leading Holocaust Experts Weigh in on Polish State’s Campaign to Rewrite History of World War II
					

Far right ONR (National Radical Camp) activists walk past the “Arbeit Macht Frei” gate at the former Nazi German concentration …




					www.algemeiner.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Jews don't worship water. They don't worship the Earth or the sun or holy teacups.  Jews worship God, which JVP redefines as the "spirit of the world." 

The entire point of "Jewish Voice for Peace" is to subvert Judaism for their own political purposes. Here, they are trying to attract dopey Jews and non-Jews to their anti-Israel movement by creating a new religion that they claim is a valid form of Judaism - and then they can say they oppose Israel; "as Jews."

(full article online)









						Jewish Voice for Peace has a strange concept of "Mikveh"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

The second article, about Jewish prayer on the Temple Mount, has additional flaws. It says, “To many Palestinians, the shift is provocative and unfair. They feel that Muslims have already made a big concession at the Western Wall, which is now used mostly by Jewish worshipers despite its also being important to Muslims. In 1967, Israel even razed an Arab neighborhood beside the wall to create more space for Jewish prayer.”

Why was there “an Arab neighborhood” beside the wall? This Times article doesn’t explain, but the online version at least does hyperlink to a Times article from 1971that explains “Continuously since the Middle Ages, according to archeological evidence, the 25 acres of the Jewish Quarter inside the walls was the core of Jewish piety and Orthodox culture in King David’s holy city. There were more than 50 synagogues in this crowded space, with a population of 16,000 Jews at the turn of the century… The fall of the Jewish Quarter to the Arabs on May 28, 1948, ‘was the blackest event in Israel’s War of Independence,’ Mayor Teddy Kollek wrote years later. From then until 1967, the medieval synagogues and shabby dwellings of the Jewish Quarter lay in rubble from the artillery of war. Squatters began to move in. Arab families gradually came to consider the quarter their home.”

That’s not the only noteworthy omission of context. Yair Rosenberg, a senior writer at Tablet magazine, pointed out on Twitter: “Extremely weird New York Times article about Jews praying at the Temple Mount in Jerusalem that fails to note anywhere that the Temple Mount is *the holiest site in all of Judaism.* The entire story doesn’t make sense if you omit that essential fact!” He added, “The article explicitly says that the Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif is the third-holiest site in Islam. It was a deliberate choice to leave out the fact that it is the holiest site in Judaism. The Timesought to correct and add basic religious context to the article.”

(full article online)









						‘Zionism Is Racism’ Myth Revived in New York Times News Articles, Including an ‘Extremely Weird’ One
					

The headquarters of The New York Times. Photo: Wikimedia Commons. The news articles of the New York Times are increasingly …




					www.algemeiner.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

From Religion News Service:



> Israel’s Chief Rabbinate has written a letter to Pope Francis conveying its “distress” at comments he made suggesting Jewish law, as written in the Torah, is obsolete.
> 
> The letter, first reported on by Reuters, was sent by Rabbi Rasson Arousi, chair of the Commission of the Chief Rabbinate of Israel for Dialogue with the Holy See. Arousi was referring to a homily Francis made during a general audience on Aug. 11.
> 
> In that homily, or sermon, the pope reflected on the Apostle Paul’s views in the New Testament that the Torah does not give life.
> 
> Speaking of the Torah, the first five books of the Bible, the pope said: “It does not offer the fulfillment of the promise because it is not capable of being able to fulfill it … Those who seek life need to look to the promise and to its fulfillment in Christ.”


At first blush, Jews might think, "so what?" Jews don't have to believe Christian theology and every religion believes itself is the right one. 
The article only gives a beginning of an answer as to why this is big deal.


> That statement comes close to supersessionism, also called replacement theology—  the belief that the Christian faith has replaced or supplanted Judaism, a view the Catholic Church repudiated. In a 1965 landmark Vatican declaration, Nostra Aetate, the church established a new rapport between Jews and Catholics.
> 
> “In his homily, the pope presents the Christian faith as not just superseding the Torah; but asserts that the latter no longer gives life, implying that Jewish religious practice in the present era is rendered obsolete,” Arousi wrote in the letter.
> 
> “This is in effect part and parcel of the ‘teaching of contempt’ towards Jews and Judaism that we had thought had been fully repudiated by the Church,” he wrote.



This is still a huge understatement.

Supersessionism has been the key driver for antisemitism for the past two thousand years.

As I pointed out in this 2017 article, Christian supersessionism prompted attacks on Jews. Churches throughout Europe can still be seen with carvings and stained glass images of Ecclesia, the triumphant symbol of victorious Christianity with crown and chalice, and Sinagoga, the defeated, humiliated and blindfolded Jew whose tablets of Law are slipping from her fingers.



Christian supersessionists aren't the only ones for whom Jewish existence is a source of shame. Islam also attempted to attract Jews - and responded violently when they refused to become Muslim. Muslim supersessionism is most obvious by how Muslims have consistently converted every Jewish holy place into a mosque. Muslims believe that the world is divided between "Dar al-Islam" and "Dar al-Harb" and the very existence of Israel in the heart of the Muslim world is a constant source of shame and defeat of that ideology.

Palestinian antisemitism combines the Christian and Muslim supersessionism as religious reasons to fight the Jews, minimizing the theological divide between the two to jointly attack any Jewish political power in the region.

It is also notable that Arab nations lobbied fiercely against the Vatican's 1965 Nostra Aetate that redefined the relationship between Catholicism and Judaism to be less adversarial. The Arab world supported Christian antisemitism, and the Catholic denominations in the Middle East rejected Vatican II.

(full article online)









						Why the Pope's comments on the Torah are a very big deal
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

Dear Human Rights Watch: Would it Kill You to Pick up a History Book?
					

The only video you need to see to strongly defend Israel.




					www.israelunwired.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

“It seems obvious is that the system has several fundamental flaws,” he argued.

One example he cited — “How did the Jews suddenly become so powerful?” — was first submitted in February 2017, and was recycled as recently as last week.

Another is the “Holocaust Forensic” space on Quora, run by Mark Sims, a researcher who calls himself a “Jewish human rights activist” who “debunks historical hoaxes.” Sims alleges that the “Holocaust is the most misrepresented group-tragedy in human historiography,” and casts doubt that six million Jews were murdered by the Nazi regime, or that many were of killed in gas chambers disguised as bathrooms.

Sims, whose profile has almost 400,000 content views to its credit, uses the space to distribute “evidence and research” regarding “long-standing Holocaust hoaxes.” One such “hoax” alleged by Sims is that “no homicidal gassing occurred at any concentration camp, it was a false legend.”

According to Quora’s own policy, Holocaust denial is “prohibited” if it is “created with the intent of spreading false or misleading information.” And the platform allows users to report the questions and answers of other users that they contend violate Quora policy. Questions and answers can be “collapsed” if a high enough number of users report them, regardless of whether Quora has reviewed the reports and determined them to be legitimate.


Weiss, who has 27,000 followers, said she is currently locking down her account to take a break from writing on Quora, after being bombarded with a barrage of hateful comments, including a death threat.

“Once you become associated with Israel, you are putting a target on your back,” she recounted. “But one attack on Quora was so bad that I did not leave my house for three days out of panic.” It read in part, “You have got a white high IQ, but that doesn’t justify treating Palestinians as animals, and torturing them every day. You white scum belong to Europe. Someone must gang rape you and then kill you. Heil Hitler ready for the real Holocaust.”
------
Weiss lamented that she has given up relying on Quora’s content moderation system after reporting thousands of comments where she says she was attacked personally.

“Nothing much has happened. It’s not a transparent system. We can’t really speak to people; I have had to repeatedly reach out to them. It took months to get a response,” she said. “Sometimes Quora has been amazing and I have been in contact with a human person, but there are just not enough of them.”

(full article online)









						Quora Writers Say ‘Unchecked Jew-Hatred,’ Holocaust Denial Persist on Popular Q&A Site
					

The “Holocaust Forensics” Quora space, criticized by some Jewish users of the platform. Photo: Screenshot https://www.algemeiner.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Quora-Writers-Say-‘Unchecked-Jew-Hatred’-Algemeiner-8_31_21-8.03-AM.mp3 As social media companies …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

(full article online )



			https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/08/26/white-house-biden-naftali-bennett-israel-palestinians-apartheid-colonization/#ApartheidIsrael


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

The REAL History of Israel


> Can you name the only nation on earth that inhabits the same land, bears the same name, speaks the same language, and worships the same God that it did 3,000 years ago? That's right - #ISRAEL! This video is all #facts #NoFakeNews and tells the story about the #Jewish people and their eternal connection to the land of Israel.


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## Sixties Fan

The article continues:



> The failure of the Camp David talks in 2000 sparked the second, and far more violent _intifada_, which shifted from stone-throwing to the use of weapons, not least by the Palestinian Authority established under the Oslo accords, and more suicide-bombings


This is revisionist history.

After Arafat’s refusal to agree to the US-brokered Israeli peace offer at Camp David that would have created a Palestinian state, a rejection that President Clinton called “a mistake of historic proportions”, he launched an intifada – using Ariel Sharon’s peaceful visit to the Temple Mount as a pretext – to turn attention away from his widely criticised rejection.

Then, the Economist buries the lede:



> It prompted Israel to build a security barrier in the West Bank and to withdraw from Gaza in 2005. And since Hamas seized power in the enclave, there have been repeated rounds of fighting—the deadliest of which erupted in 2014.


A more accurate take-away – which would contradict the desired narrative – is that,_ despite_ of Israel’s unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, Palestinians in Gaza handed Hamas – the group committed to Israel’s annihilation – a victory in parliamentary elections, ushering in, not more peace as most commentators predicted following the disengagement, but year after year of terror and war.

The Economist article ends thusly:



> …in the 15 years between the second _intifada_, which began in September 2000, and the end of the second Gaza war in August 2014, 800 people died each year, on average. Since then, victims have numbered 175 a year. In the same period, Israeli deaths fell from 85 a year to 14.
> Israel’s military might, its erection of security barriers and its deployment of anti-missile defences mean that, for most Israelis, most of the time, the conflict is out of sight and out of mind. Relations with Palestinians barely featured as an issue in the four elections Israel has held in the past two years. The international outcry over the plight of Palestinians is unlikely to change this mindset. The latest fighting may show how the unjust treatment of the Palestinians stores up trouble. But even now, the endless occupation seems tolerable to many Israelis who have lost faith in peace.


First, it’s misleading to claim that Israelis have “lost faith in peace”.  It’s more accurate to say that, whilst a plurality of Israelis (including the alternate Prime Minister) still support two states, most Israelis, due to Palestinian peace rejections, the rise of Hamas and the barbarism of the 2nd Intifada, have lost faith in the Palestinian leadership’s desire to truly live in peace with the Jewish state.

But, there’s one more major error in the Economist’s analysis.

(full article online)









						Economist gets Israeli view of Palestinian conflict completely wrong
					

We recently came across an Economist article published during the recent conflict between Hamas and Israel that gets the Israeli view of their conflict with the




					camera-uk.org


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## Sixties Fan

The BBC News website’s Palestinian territories timeline – which is presented as “A chronology of key events” – includes the following entries under the sub-heading “Progress towards self-rule”:







The events described in that first entry could not of course have taken place on the given dates because the Oslo Accords Declaration of Principles was not signed until September 1993 and the Gaza-Jericho agreement was signed in May 1994. The Palestinian National Authority was established pursuant to that latter agreement and – as the BBC itself reports elsewhere – Arafat arrived in the Gaza Strip in July 1994.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




The Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to Arafat, Rabin and Peres in October 1994, with the ceremony taking place in December of that year – rather than the year before they signed the 1993 Oslo Accords that were the reason for the award, as claimed in this BBC timeline.

Seeing as this timeline is dated April 2019, it would appear that the inaccurate information has been presented to BBC News website users for at least well over two years.  









						BBC’s Palestinian territories timeline inaccurate on dates of ‘key events’
					

The BBC News website’s Palestinian territories timeline – which is presented as “A chronology of key events” - includes the following entries under the




					camera-uk.org


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## Sixties Fan

The baseless charge that Israel is excavating under the mosque serves Hamas efforts to draw Gazans to the dangerous border clashes. Indeed, it is nothing short of incitement, liable to inflame an already tense region. Given the libel's vast distance from the actual truth, it has no place in any Western organization that fancies itself a news provider.

In addition, the reverential reference to the Islamic site, which happens also to be Judaism's most sacred site, as the "blessed Al Aqsa Mosque," in no way conforms to journalistic practice and standards. And though an arson attack against a religious site is a completely reprehensible act according to any moral reckoning, it is not the role of a news item to label it "evil."

A second series of Sipa captions two days later peddled a separate anti-Israel falsehood: that the Australian Christian tourist who attempted to set the Al Aqsa mosque on fire decades ago was Jewish.
The captions had erred: ". . . the 52nd anniversary of burning the Al Masjid Al Aqsa by the Australian extremist *Jewish *Dennis Rohan stormed Al- Aqsa. On August 21, 1969, a *Jewish *extremist stormed Al-Aqsa Mosque and set fire to the mosque . . . " (Emphasis added.) In fact, Rohan was a Christian extremist. 










						SIPA USA, Raw Anti-Israel Incitement in Real Time
					

Sipa editors in New York and Los Angeles apply zero editing to material from contributors in the Hamas-run Gaza Strip, resulting in anti-Israel fabrications




					www.camera.org


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## Sixties Fan

The book is pure propaganda, with the theme being that Arabs will "return" - and replace Israel.















No one ever explained from a Palestinian perspective why this supposed ancient homeland has borders created by Western powers a hundred years ago - or why those borders from 1949-1967 happened to not include the West Bank or Gaza. I guess it is just a coincidence that the lands claimed as Palestinian always happened to be the lands controlled by Jews.

The last page of the book hints to a sequel that would be more explicit in blaming Jews:





There is nothing wrong with publishing a book with the Palestinian narrative, as bigoted as it may be. But for a public library to use the book to incite hatred, as was done in Philadelphia, is absolutely unacceptable.











						Philadelphia librarian indoctrinates kids to hate Israel
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

A leading Christian scholar says the attack on Jewish history has consequences for Christians. Rev. Dr. Petra Heldt, director of the Ecumenical Theological Research Fraternity in Israel, told Fox News that "re-writing biblical history with an anti-Israel attempt ventures to set a potentially fatal blow to the Christian faith."

Heldt, who is also a professor of history of the Churches in the Middle East at Jerusalem University College and works on mutual understanding between Christians and Jews in Israel, noted that Christian society today is "often on the brink of forgetting the Bible and the Christian tradition." She added that "re-writing Biblical history (in particular by eliminating Israel), therefore, will lure nominal Christians into the realm of the deceiver affiliated with agendas of anti-Semitism, secularism, or other religions."

---

The PA-controlled historic city of Hebron is another flashpoint. Yishai Fleisher, the international spokesman for the Jewish community in Hebron, said the city has served as an example of how the rewriting of the historical record has changed the historical narrative to favor the Palestinians. He noted that in 2017 UNESCO voted to put the Tomb of the Patriarchs as a Palestinian world heritage site that it said was under threat from the Israelis. That vote led the Trump administration to quit the U.N. body.

A spokesman from The United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) told Fox News, "All decisions at the executive board, general conference and World Heritage committee are adopted by member states, not by UNESCO itself," when referring to votes on Hebron and Jerusalem. The spokesman continued that, "UNESCO will keep on opposing any attempts of revision of history: heritage in its historic complexity should unite people, rather than divide them. This is UNESCO’s core objective." The spokesman concluded, "Any accusation or comment about UNESCO being ‘anti-Israel’ is clearly inaccurate."

Fleisher, speaking on Fox News’ chief religion correspondent Lauren Green’s "Lighthouse Faith" podcast, discussed the significance of Hebron to Jews, Christians, and Muslims. Fleisher explained that Israel’s first capital was Hebron, and that Genesis describes Abraham making a land purchase to bury his beloved wife Sarah 3,800 years ago in Hebron. 









						Woke history hits Middle East as Palestinians accused of erasing history
					

Palestinian leaders and their allies in the West are attempting to re-write Bible history in the Middle East, critics say.




					www.foxnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

_This article is part of an ongoing series of analyses of CNN’s recent six-part show, “Jerusalem: City of Faith and Fury.” You can find the first critique of the CNN series here: CNN Mangles Jerusalem’s History._]

On August 22, CNN finished airing a six-part series on “Jerusalem: City of Faith and Fury,” concluding with a distorted narrative of the Six-Day War, a topic CNN has a history of rewriting. As CAMERA has already documented, and will document further in the coming days, the series has been full of factual errors and historical revisionism.

In addressing the Six-Day War, CNN accentuated even further its habit throughout the series of distorting events to portray Arabs as powerless victims. In some cases, this narrative is laid absurdly bare, such as when the narrator tells viewers *“[t]he [Jordanian] shelling is meant to target Jews in West Jerusalem, but it’s the Palestinian Arabs living in the area that are left defenseless.”* Yes – CNN suggested that when Arabs were trying to kill Jews, it was really Arabs who were the victims.

Just minutes later the same kind of inversion occurs again:



> (Narrator) “Once Ammunition Hill is under Israeli control, the Israeli Army brings their fight deeper into Jerusalem. But it’s the Palestinian Arabs that are left vulnerable.”
> (Fadi Elsalameen) “They see, contrary to what they were hearing on the radio at the time, you know, ‘we will defeat the Israeli presence,’ and all of a sudden it’s completely the entire opposite. People started getting frantic, and again another wave of refugees started marching towards Jordan.”


Again, CNN portrays the Arab attempt to remove Jews from their presence in Jerusalem – for that’s what happened in parts of the city conquered by Arab armies – as truly a tragedy for the Arabs since they failed in the mission. The question is why CNN would create a narrative in which Arab attempts to drive the Jews into the sea as unproblematic, but Jewish survival and self-defense as a tragedy for the Arabs.

Beyond creating perverse concepts of victimhood, CNN butchers and slants the history in a number of other ways, including the below examples.

----------
It was also not just Palestinian Arabs involved in the violence. Syria served as a sponsor for much of the terrorism.[4] As a part of its “Popular Liberation War,” Syria provided operational assistance to and endorsement of these attacks, including by providing training camps and command posts on its border with Jordan.[5] This enabled Fatah to “us[e] the territory of weaker states bordering Israel – Lebanon and Jordan – to deflect reprisals from itself.”[6]

While the November 12-13 incidents are notable in that it resulted in a direct clash between an Arab state and Israel, CNN omits that it was far from the first such direct clash. Syria had been shelling Israelis towns and vehicles along the border in the north for years. One such incident occurred 2 years earlier, on November 3, 1964, when Syrian tanks fired on an Israeli tractor. This was followed up 10 days later in a border battle that was “the biggest confrontation between Syria and Israel in years” that many feared “heralded a new round of hostilities that would eventually lead to a general war…”[7]  The months preceding the November 1966 Israeli-Jordanian battle had also witnessed several serious incidents of Syrian forces shelling Israeli communities.[8] These attacks only grew in intensity as time went on and even led to a massive air battle on April 7.[9] Six Syrian fighter jets were shot down when the Israeli Air Force finally acted to try and silence the artillery shelling Israeli civilians. 

--------------
All the while, warlike rhetoric from Arab leaders, especially Nasser, had been blasting the airwaves. For example, Egyptian President Nasser spoke on Cairo Radio on May 15, declaring “our forces are in a complete state of readiness for war… Brothers, it is our duty to prepare for the final battle in Palestine.”[15] On May 18, Egyptian radio was declaring“[t]he sole method we shall apply against Israel is total war, which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence.” Then Syrian Defense Minister Hafez al-Assad announced it was high time to “take the initiative in destroying the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland.”[16] A month earlier, the Syrian regime had already declared “Our known objective is the freeing of Palestine and the liquidation of the Zionist existence there.”[17] On May 27, just several days after closing the Straits, Nasser also laid out the same objective, stating “Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight.”

That CNN presented a history of the lead-up to the Six-Day War without mentioning Egypt’s removal of peacekeepers, and only mentioning in passing the massing of Arab troops on the border and the genocidal rhetoric, is problematic enough. That CNN instead used the time to imply Nasser was actually just bluffing when he closed the Straits of Tiran is even worse. It’s doing a disservice to the network’s viewers by presenting them with a narrative that can hardly even be called a “half-truth.”

(full article online)









						CNN's 'Jerusalem' Series on the Six Day War: When Jews Are Shelled, Arabs Suffer
					

In addressing the Six-Day War, CNN accentuated even further its habit throughout the series of distorting events to portray Arabs as powerless victims. In




					www.camera.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

CAMERA has recently pointed out the noticeable tilt in NPR’s Middle East reporting this summer. The public radio network obsessively focuses on the Palestinian narrative and grievances against Israel while Israel’s positions are marginalized, their context concealed.

Nowhere is this more apparent than in NPR’s coverage of Jerusalem. The media outlet aired two broadcasts and published an additional article during the month of July that focused entirely on the concerns of Palestinians who built illegally in the King’s Garden area of Silwan. The article and broadcasts highlighted their concern about their houses possibly being demolished by Israeli authorities but suppressed the fact that these structures were built on centuries-old conservation land not zoned for and therefore lacking the infrastructure for residential properties. Instead, the broadcasts and articles presented the false Palestinian claim that those who built illegally were forced to do so because Israel allegedly denies Palestinian construction permits as a form of ethnic cleansing from Jerusalem.

These misrepresentations about Israeli policy in Jerusalem were followed in August by an item that bolstered the Hamas pretext for rocketing population centers inside Israel – namely, the “defense” of Jerusalem and Al Aqsa.

The battle cries “Defend Al Aqsa!” “Defend Muslim holy sites!” and “Defend Jerusalem from the Jews!” have been used for almost a century as calls for violent jihad. They originated in the 1920’s with Amin al Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem from 1921-48, who established a successful strategy to consolidate Muslim support around him by pronouncing any attempt by Jews to exercise their religious or historical rights in Jerusalem a threat to Islam. The false charge that Jews were trying to take over the al Aqsa mosque was the pretext to foment the 1929 Hebron massacre which resulted in the deaths of dozens of Hebron’s Jewish residents and the end of its historic Jewish community there. Husseini and his followers portrayed themselves as defenders of the Muslim faith, using the defense of Muslim holy sites as a pretext to kill Jews in the name of Islam and garner a wider following in the larger Muslim world. Hamas has followed suit, invoking the “defense” of Jerusalem and Al Aqsa as the reason it was waging war against Israel, targeting population centers deep inside the country with rockets and missiles.
----
Less than one minute of the eight-minute broadcast was devoted to the importance of the Temple Mount to Jews—and much of that time was spent minimizing it. Jewish connection to the Temple Mount was simplistically reduced to the fact that it was “the site of an ancient temple destroyed 2,000 years ago.” And Israeli writer Pinhas Inbari was interviewed to say that non-religious Israeli Jews “don’t care about Jerusalem, not al-Aqsa.”

Missing from the NPR story was that Jewish reverence for the site predates not only the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa Mosque (both of which were originally built in in the 7th century CE on the ruins of Judaism’s temples) but two Jewish Temples (the first of which was erected in 954 BCE and destroyed in 587 BCE, the second which was rebuilt in 515 BCE before being destroyed by the Romans in 70 CE), that according to Jewish tradition, the site lies on the Foundation Stone upon which the world was created, where the Divine Presence rests, where the biblical Isaac was brought for sacrifice, where the Holy of Holies and where the Ark of the Covenant housing the Ten Commandments once stood.

Also omitted from the story were the many centuries of Jewish pilgrimage from all over the world to the site to participate in worship and festivities, and that the site has remained the focus of Jewish longing, aspiration, and prayers. There was no mention of the fact that daily prayers (said while facing Jerusalem and the Temple Mount) and grace after meals include multiple supplications for the ultimate restoration of Jerusalem and its Jewish Temples., that Jews still maintain the 9th day of the Hebrew month of Av, the date on which both the First and Second Temples were destroyed, as a day of mourning, that the Jewish wedding ceremony concludes with the chanting of the biblical phrase, “If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget its cunning,” and the breaking of a glass by the groom to commemorate the destruction of the Temples, and that Yom Kippur services and the Passover Seder conclude each year with the phrase “Next Year in Jerusalem.” All these facts were suppressed in a broadcast that was almost entirely devoted to the site’s importance to Muslims that served in effect as justification of Hamas’ pretext for war.

This implicit justification was perhaps best demonstrated by Tanis’ disingenuous conflation of Israeli Jews pushing for freedom of religion and the right for Jews to pray on the Temple Mount with the destruction and replacement of the Dome of the Rock with a new Jewish temple. She declared:



> [Israeli Professor Pinhas Inbari] says those actually pressing for a change are small radical groups, but those groups have political backing and talk about building a new temple where the Dome of the Rock is. Palestinians see them praying on the compound more openly now in bigger numbers and worry they’ll take over.


Tanis’ implication was that there is political support in Israel for building a new Jewish temple to replace a Muslim mosque. In fact, there is no political support in Israel for this.

(full article online)









						NPR Promotes Palestinian Narrative on Jerusalem
					

Nowhere is NPR's skewed reporting as obvious as in its coverage of Jerusalem. Misrepresentations about Israeli policy in Jerusalem were followed by a broadcast that




					www.camera.org


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## Sixties Fan

I have noted many times in the past that when Palestinians say that "historic Palestine" is congruent with the borders of the British Mandate created in 1921, they cannot have too much history. 

The Palestinian prime minister proved that yet again on Wednesday.



The Jordanian Minister of Agriculture visited the Palestinian prime minister Muhammad Shtayyeh in Ramallah, and Shtayyeh made a statement about the rich ties between his nonexistent nation and Jordan.



He "reiterated the spirit of partnership between Palestine and Jordan at all levels and throughout history, stressing that the two countries are partners in blood, history and unity of destiny."

Before 1946, Jordan was just a river. Before 1922, Transjordan was just a region - just as Palestine was before 1921.






Palestinians are no more descended from Canaanites as Jordanians are from Moabites or Ammonites.



So I suppose that Jordan and "Palestine" do have a history in common, in that until recently, they had no history.

(full article online)









						"Jordan and Palestine are partners in history." Their history cannot be very long!
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

This afternoon Patrick Harvie and Lorna Slater, co-leaders of the Scottish Greens, will become ministers in Nicola Sturgeon’s government. The appointments come after Green members ratified a cooperation agreement over the weekend. The unity pact is a strategic masterstroke by Sturgeon, handing her an overall majority at Holyrood, insulating her from internal SNP criticism and coopting a rival nationalist party. There is one midge in the porridge, however, and it’s this: the Scottish Greens are unhinged. Not merely eccentric or a little outside the mainstream, but full-blown, solar-powered, honest-to-Gaia cranks. 

For an illustration, consider a motion debated at their autumn 2015 conference in Glasgow. I was a political reporter back then and covered the event, and the talk of the weekend was Policy Motion 2. Dry-sounding but incendiary, Policy Motion 2 resolved that Israel was an apartheid state, Zionism a racist ideology and Hamas not a terrorist organisation. The text claimed that ‘historically the Palestinian peoples have enjoyed peaceful religious and ethnic cohabitation’ but had come under ‘colonial occupation’, listing ‘Zionist/Israeli powers’ among the colonisers. This occupation it blamed on ‘the nationalist ideology of Zionism’, which it said ‘advocated that Jews should establish a new nation specifically for Jewish people rather than be citizens of the countries where they lived’. 

It described the (re-)establishment of Israel as ‘the Nakba’, the Arabic term for ‘catastrophe’, and asserted that Israel today was engaged in ‘colonisation and ethnic cleansing’. It charged that ‘modern day Zionism, which advocates that Jewish people have a superior right to the land of Palestine, is a racist ideology’. 

A few paragraphs later, it forgot the ‘modern day’ qualifier and ‘condemn[ed] Zionism as a racist ideology based on Jewish supremacy in Palestine’. The text ‘condemns Israel's claim to be 'the Jewish State'’ and accused it of giving ‘preferential rights to Jews over Palestinians’, characterising it instead as an ‘apartheid’ state ‘in which non-Jews have inferior rights’. As such, ‘Israel’s claim to be a Jewish and democratic state’ was ‘unacceptable’ to the Scottish Greens. 

The motion called for the repeal of Israel’s law of return for Jews at the same time as backing an unfettered right of return for all Palestinian Arabs and their descendants. While supporting the establishment of a Palestinian state, the resolution referred to ‘the lands of historic Palestine and its peoples’ and ‘the lands currently designated as Israel and the occupied territories’. The motion didn’t explicitly advocate the destruction of the State of Israel but language like this, and terms such as ‘Post Apartheid Palestine’, don’t require much parsing to catch their drift. 

The motion called for the repeal of Israel’s law of return for Jews at the same time as backing an unfettered right of return for all Palestinian Arabs and their descendants
According to the resolution, the security barrier built by Israel to stop Palestinian suicide bombers ‘constitutes the most visible implementation of the segregation of Palestinians into controlled areas, which constitutes a policy of Apartheid’. The barrier had to be destroyed and ‘compensation…paid to those affected by its construction’. The policy endorsed commercial, cultural and academic boycotts of Israel, divestment of local authorities and civil society organisations and other sanctions against the Jewish state. It condemned the Jewish National Fund, a charity that plants trees in Israel, and called for its UK charitable status to be revoked. While urging that Israeli politicians and military leaders ‘be pursued… to stand trial in the International Criminal Court’, the motion demanded ‘the removal of Hamas from the designation as a terrorist organisation’ and ‘the unconditional release’ of what it called ‘Palestinian political prisoners’ from Israeli jails. 

The Hamas point was extreme enough to earn the Greens some headlines in the Scottish media, which is generally ill-disposed to Israel. 

(full article online)









						The shame of the SNP's grubby power-sharing deal with the Scottish Greens | The Spectator
					

When will Boris Johnson be brave enough to condemn the SNP's grubby power-sharing deal with the Scottish Greens?




					www.spectator.co.uk


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sixties Fan said:


> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledge Israel's ‎right to exist.


Israel exists !!!!!!
First time I've heard about it. 
Na, Israel was a person, not a place and as I remember it, was buried somewhere in Jordan.

*King James Bible*
_*And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name:* *and he called his name Israel.*_

And Israel wasn't even buried in "Israel"; go figure

Genesis 47:30_ but when I rest with my fathers, carry me out of Egypt and *bury me [ Israel ] where they are buried*." "I will do as you say," he said. ;_
Genesis 49:31 *There Abraham and his wife Sarah were buried, there Isaac and his wife Rebekah were buried, and there I buried Leah.*
Genesis 50:10 _And they came to the threshingfloor of Atad, *which is beyond Jordan*, and there they mourned with a great and very sore lamentation:_
Genesis 50:13 _For his sons *carried him [ Israel ] into the land of Canaan*, and buried him in the cave of the field of Machpelah, which Abraham bought with the field for a possession of a buryingplace of Ephron the Hittite, before Mamre._
Genesis 50:14_ After burying his father, Joseph returned to Egypt, together with his brothers and all the others who had gone with him to bury his father.
Ironick, _

Isn’t it ironic to find out that Israel was a person, not a place and to top that off Israel wasn’t even buried in “Israel”.
*Go figure*

-


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

> I identify as an Arab Jew. My family has lived in Jerusalem for over 10 generations, and my other ancestral cities include Aleppo in Syria, Baghdad in Iraq, and Shiraz in Iran, along with a small village in Kurdistan.
> 
> In our traditional Jewish home, observing our Syrian-Palestinian heritage and culture came with ease. Jewishness and Arabness fit together cohesively — there was no contradiction. But outside our home, my faith and culture clashed. The State of Israel conditioned me to see the intersection of “Jewish” and “Arab” as non-existent or impossible, even though Arab Jews have lived at this intersection for years.



She then goes on to review the racism in the early days of modern Israel against Mizrahi Jews - racism that was shameful and real enough although she exaggerates it.

Cohen leaves out a great deal in her essay, facts that are very relevant but that she doesn't want her brainwashed anti-Israel audience to know.

One is that practically no Mizrahi Jews identify as Arab. She is an anomaly. There are millions of Mizrahi Jews who are proud of their heritage that was influenced by their ancestors who lived in the Arab world, but they don' t call themselves Arab Jews. I highly doubt that her grandparents thought of themselves as Arabs. This is a construct has been created relatively recently.

As Wikipedia notes,


> The term is controversial, as the vast majority of Jews with origins in Arab-majority countries do not identify as Arabs, and most Jews who lived amongst Arabs did not call themselves "Arab Jews" or view themselves as such.[17][18] In recent decades, some Jews have self-identified as Arab Jews, such as Ella Shohat, who uses the term in contrast to the Zionist establishment's categorization of Jews as either Ashkenazim or Mizrahim; the latter, she believes, have been oppressed as the Arabs have. Other Jews, such as Albert Memmi, say that Jews in Arab countries would have liked to be Arab Jews, but centuries of abuse by Arab Muslims prevented it, and now it's too late. The term is mostly used by post-Zionists and Arab nationalists.



Meaning that the term "Arab Jew" is a new construct created for political purposes, not reflective of reality.

The second fact is related: Arabs never considered Jews to be full citizens in their countries. The lives of Jews in Arab counties were sometimes better, sometimes worse, but they were never, ever considered to be equal with the Muslims. And very often throughout the centuries, Jews in Arab countries were persecuted, forced to act as subservient to their Arab masters, attacked, raped and murdered. Only recently I published a series of articles about how Jews in Muslim and Arab lands were treated in the 1800s but Arab antisemitism is a theme I have documented countless times. 
------
Hadar Cohen's article is gaslighting, not factual. It isn't Israel that had created the division between Arab and Jew - but the Arabs themselves, over and over again throughout history.

(full article online)









						Identifying as an "Arab Jew" doesn't make it real
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> The baseless charge that Israel is excavating under the mosque serves Hamas efforts to draw Gazans to the dangerous border clashes. Indeed, it is nothing short of incitement, liable to inflame an already tense region. Given the libel's vast distance from the actual truth, it has no place in any Western organization that fancies itself a news provider.
> 
> In addition, the reverential reference to the Islamic site, which happens also to be Judaism's most sacred site, as the "blessed Al Aqsa Mosque," in no way conforms to journalistic practice and standards. And though an arson attack against a religious site is a completely reprehensible act according to any moral reckoning, it is not the role of a news item to label it "evil."
> 
> A second series of Sipa captions two days later peddled a separate anti-Israel falsehood: that the Australian Christian tourist who attempted to set the Al Aqsa mosque on fire decades ago was Jewish.
> The captions had erred: ". . . the 52nd anniversary of burning the Al Masjid Al Aqsa by the Australian extremist *Jewish *Dennis Rohan stormed Al- Aqsa. On August 21, 1969, a *Jewish *extremist stormed Al-Aqsa Mosque and set fire to the mosque . . . " (Emphasis added.) In fact, Rohan was a Christian extremist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SIPA USA, Raw Anti-Israel Incitement in Real Time
> 
> 
> Sipa editors in New York and Los Angeles apply zero editing to material from contributors in the Hamas-run Gaza Strip, resulting in anti-Israel fabrications
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.camera.org



The Mosque has been standing for 1300 years. Neither of the Jewish Temples lasted that long.. Maybe you should seek reparations from Rome.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> She then goes on to review the racism in the early days of modern Israel against Mizrahi Jews - racism that was shameful and real enough although she exaggerates it.
> 
> Cohen leaves out a great deal in her essay, facts that are very relevant but that she doesn't want her brainwashed anti-Israel audience to know.
> 
> One is that practically no Mizrahi Jews identify as Arab. She is an anomaly. There are millions of Mizrahi Jews who are proud of their heritage that was influenced by their ancestors who lived in the Arab world, but they don' t call themselves Arab Jews. I highly doubt that her grandparents thought of themselves as Arabs. This is a construct has been created relatively recently.
> 
> As Wikipedia notes,
> 
> 
> Meaning that the term "Arab Jew" is a new construct created for political purposes, not reflective of reality.
> 
> The second fact is related: Arabs never considered Jews to be full citizens in their countries. The lives of Jews in Arab counties were sometimes better, sometimes worse, but they were never, ever considered to be equal with the Muslims. And very often throughout the centuries, Jews in Arab countries were persecuted, forced to act as subservient to their Arab masters, attacked, raped and murdered. Only recently I published a series of articles about how Jews in Muslim and Arab lands were treated in the 1800s but Arab antisemitism is a theme I have documented countless times.
> ------
> Hadar Cohen's article is gaslighting, not factual. It isn't Israel that had created the division between Arab and Jew - but the Arabs themselves, over and over again throughout history.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Identifying as an "Arab Jew" doesn't make it real
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com



Do you ever stop whining and complaining and compiling offenses against you?

Arab Jews | Ethnipedia Wiki | Fandom








						Arab Jews
					

Arab Jews (Arabic: اليهود العرب al-Yahud al-Arab) (Hebrew: יהודים ערבים Yehudim Aravim) or Jewish Arabs are Jews who formerly lived or currently live in the Arab World, as well as ethnic Arabs who proclaim Judaism as their faith as well as people of mixed Arab and Jewish ethnic descent. The Jews...




					ethnipedia.fandom.com
				



Arab Jews are part of the bigger group known as Mizrahi Jews (Hebrew: יהודים מזרחי), which are Jews who are locally descended from the Middle East. These are known as …


----------



## Sixties Fan

To the best of our knowledge, Sky News Arabia is the only Western-branded, Arabic-speaking media outlet which covered the Israel-Hezbollah fire exchange while consistently using the “settlements” terminology in reference to the Jewish communities in northern Israel, thus continuing to question Israel’s legitimacy within any borders.

AFP’s Arabic wire service, in contrast, refrained from doing so this time, calling it “a town” instead. In comparison, between May 14 and 19, AFP Arabic referred to nearby Metula as “a settlement” no less than three times. Though  CAMERA Arabic contacted editors repeatedly over the matter, they’ve refused to correct it.

In the case of Saudi owned and operated Independent Arabia, the picture is more ambiguous. For the most part, IA covered the early August events while correctly referring to Kiryat Shmona as “a city” or “a town“, populated by “residents” (rather than “settlers”), with the single exception of an August 7 op-ed by Lebanese journalist Walid Choucair.

However, historically there have been ups and downs with this last outlet.

Interestingly, following a June 2020 communication with CAMERA Arabic, Independent Arabia nearly stopped using the “settlements” terminology in reference to Gaza envelope communities, with two exceptions from June 2021 (one of them a report which indirectly quoted Gaza authorities). Nevertheless, it continued to use the same problematic term in regards to communities adjacent to the Lebanese border, with the latest examples dating back to November 2020 (“settlement of Manara”) and May 2021(“settlement of Metula”). It is hence unclear whether or not IA intends to apply the same standards it set in the case of Gaza, on northern Israel as well.

Notably, in recent months CAMERA Arabic prompted several Arabic news outlets to correct the “settlement” terminology with regards to Jewish communities inside Israel’s internationally recognized territory: the Arabic brands of BBC, Reuters and EuroNews.

(full article online)









						Sky News (in Arabic) suggests all of Israel is a "settlement"
					

Emirati affiliated Sky News Arabia persists in calling Israeli communities inside Israel’s internationally-recognized territory “settlements”, even after




					camera-uk.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

[_This article is the third in a series of critiques of CNN’s six-part series, “Jerusalem: City of Faith and Fury.” The first critique can be found __here__, and the second __here__._]

CNN has a problem with Jerusalem’s history. The network apparently views the utter destruction of the city, including the Second Temple – a historic event of great significance to all three Abrahamic religions – as just not as important to the story of Jerusalem as…Cleopatra.

Part two of the network’s six-part series on Jerusalem – which claims to focus on “a half-dozen critical moments in the city’s evolution” – covers the era of Herod the Great. Approximately fifteen-and-a-half minutes of the episode is spent on Cleopatra and Mark Antony. The destruction of the Temple is given just over two-minutes. Put another way, CNN – in a series on Jerusalem – spent almost as much time (one-and-a-half minutes) on Cleopatra and Mark Antony’s respective suicides – which occurred in Egypt and had little if anything to do with Jerusalem – as it did on the destruction of the Second Temple and much of the city of Jerusalem itself.

To put into context just how little importance CNN attached to the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem, here is the entirety with which CNN discusses the events:

(full article online)









						CNN Erases Jews from the Story of Jerusalem
					

CNN has a problem with Jerusalem’s history. The network apparently views the utter destruction of the city, including the Second Temple – a historic




					www.camera.org


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## Sixties Fan

Akhbarten.com, an Arab news site popular in Egypt and Syria, has an article explaining a Quranic verse:


> The example of those who were burdened with the Torah, but then did not carry it, is like an ass carrying books —evil is the example of the people which deny the signs of God, and God does not guide the wrongdoing people. [Qurʾān 62:5]


The article explains that just as a donkey carries books yet does not understand what they contain, so the Jews are burdened with a Torah they do not understand. Only Muslims do.

So far, this is just another example of how one can find examples of antisemitism in every day Arabic language media.

But the person explaining the verse does not understand it as well a the author of the Quran did. 

The Quran's stories often come not only from the Torah itself but from rabbinic sources as well. Its author was quite familiar with Rabbinic stories from the Midrash and Talmud.

This particular verse seems to refer to a famous midrash, the first part of which is familiar to every Jewish schoolchild. When God wanted to give the Torah, he first went to the other nations and offered it to them. They would ask, "What is in it?" and God would answer "Thou shat not kill" or steal or commit adultery, and the nations would decline, saying that one of these sins are part of their national culture. When God came to Israel, however, they didn't ask what was in it, but accepted it wholeheartedly.

The second part of the midrash says, "It is similar to a man who sent his donkey and his dog to the granary, where fifteen seʾah [of grain] were loaded atop the donkey and three seʾah on the dog. The donkey walked and the dog lolled his tongue [in exhaustion.] He cast aside one seʾah and placed it atop the donkey and then did the same with the second and then the third. This is how Israel accepted the Torah, together with its commentaries and its minutiae. Even those seven commandments that the Noahides could not abide and cast aside, Israel came and accepted. "

So the rabbis themselves compared the Jews to a donkey, as a compliment! The Quran took this story and turned it into an insult to Jews - an insult not only for a Muslim audience but for a literate Jewish audience as well!

This paper notes also that a later Quranic verse seems to compare Jews more directly to the tongue-lolling dog of this midrash. (It shows that the verse that the midrash is commenting on is one of the "proofs" Muslims give that Mohammed is alluded to in the Torah.)









						When the Quran compared Jews to donkeys
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Akhbarten.com, an Arab news site popular in Egypt and Syria, has an article explaining a Quranic verse:
> 
> The article explains that just as a donkey carries books yet does not understand what they contain, so the Jews are burdened with a Torah they do not understand. Only Muslims do.
> 
> So far, this is just another example of how one can find examples of antisemitism in every day Arabic language media.
> 
> But the person explaining the verse does not understand it as well a the author of the Quran did.
> 
> The Quran's stories often come not only from the Torah itself but from rabbinic sources as well. Its author was quite familiar with Rabbinic stories from the Midrash and Talmud.
> 
> This particular verse seems to refer to a famous midrash, the first part of which is familiar to every Jewish schoolchild. When God wanted to give the Torah, he first went to the other nations and offered it to them. They would ask, "What is in it?" and God would answer "Thou shat not kill" or steal or commit adultery, and the nations would decline, saying that one of these sins are part of their national culture. When God came to Israel, however, they didn't ask what was in it, but accepted it wholeheartedly.
> 
> The second part of the midrash says, "It is similar to a man who sent his donkey and his dog to the granary, where fifteen seʾah [of grain] were loaded atop the donkey and three seʾah on the dog. The donkey walked and the dog lolled his tongue [in exhaustion.] He cast aside one seʾah and placed it atop the donkey and then did the same with the second and then the third. This is how Israel accepted the Torah, together with its commentaries and its minutiae. Even those seven commandments that the Noahides could not abide and cast aside, Israel came and accepted. "
> 
> So the rabbis themselves compared the Jews to a donkey, as a compliment! The Quran took this story and turned it into an insult to Jews - an insult not only for a Muslim audience but for a literate Jewish audience as well!
> 
> This paper notes also that a later Quranic verse seems to compare Jews more directly to the tongue-lolling dog of this midrash. (It shows that the verse that the midrash is commenting on is one of the "proofs" Muslims give that Mohammed is alluded to in the Torah.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the Quran compared Jews to donkeys
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com



LOLOL.. I would think the vast majority of Muslims in the world never heard of such a crock of shit.. and could care less.

Disappointed?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here's a nice example of an antisemitic article in the Jordanian Assawsana news site. This is not an anomalous opinion, but mainstream, even though articles like this are somewhat more rare than in the past.




> If I were a Jew, I would go back to reading the real history of the Jews.
> 
> The Jews are the descendants of the Canaanites who inhabited the country of the East, the area between the Nile River, the Tigris and the Euphrates, and for this reason their flag consists of two blue lines representing the Nile and Euphrates rivers.
> 
> ...They returned to the land of their fathers and grandfathers in the land of Canaan when our Prophet Moses, peace be upon him, rescued them from enslavement, killing and slaughter of Pharaoh for them. After that, God scattered them all on the earth for breaking the covenants with our master and Prophet Muhammad bin Abdullah, peace and blessings be upon him.
> 
> And I will ask and verify why the countries of the whole world agreed to get rid of us and establish a national home for us in Palestine? Is it because people hated us in all the countries in which we lived  for our pure and unfair material dealings that are not our religion, and we exploited them and tried to enslave them. . . etc?.
> 
> I also wonder why the Jews did not fuse with the different societies in which they lived and continue to live for many years? Why couldn't they merge with the Palestinian people in Palestine as well? . . .
> 
> I will arrive at a fact that no one can deny, which is that the problem is not with all the peoples of the world, nor with the Palestinian people, but with the Jewish people themselves. And when I came forward, and because I play the role of a member of the Jewish people, I have to realize the truth of the matter, which is that all peoples hate us, even if they seem to us outwardly love us. And that is because the thirteen Jewish families, the most important of whom are Rothschilds, Rockefellers and Morgans, control the economy, money, policies and global decisions in the Security Council and the General Assembly.
> 
> How long will we Jews continue to live in anxiety, fear and terror from all around us? And why? Can we control the peoples of the world forever? Is it not time for us to change our behavior with other peoples? And live a life of tranquility, serenity, security and peace?



See how much the author cares? He only wants what's best for us Jews!









						Jordanian news site antisemitic article: "If I were a Jew..."
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Here's a nice example of an antisemitic article in the Jordanian Assawsana news site. This is not an anomalous opinion, but mainstream, even though articles like this are somewhat more rare than in the past.
> 
> See how much the author cares? He only wants what's best for us Jews!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jordanian news site antisemitic article: "If I were a Jew..."
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com



You should read it again and give it some serious thought. Jewish history is not the only history of the Middle East or the people who live there..


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> You should read it again and give it some serious thought. Jewish history is not the only history of the Middle East or the people who live there..


You should read history period, and not be led what Islam and Christianity are trying to make out of the history of the region by changing it.

Until you learn whether 10,000 years of Arab presence in Ancient Canaan is true or not, there is no way for you to move on.

As long as you believe that Arab Palestinians are the indigenous people of Ancient Canaan, there is no way for you to move on.

Until you learn that Ashkenazi Jews are indigenous of Ancient Canaan, and not merely "converts" to Judaism, there is no way for you to move on.

And as long as you continue to dismiss all of the other Jews on the planet, aside from the Ashkenazi, as having indigenous rights to what is left of their homeland, 20%, and wanting to give that 20% to the foreign Arabs who invaded the land in the 7th Century and immigrated more so at the end of the 19th century and early 20th century.....mostly due to Jews creating jobs......and then the Arab leaders begging to move there to outnumber the Jews and keep the Mandate for Israel (Palestine) from happening....

there is no way for you to ever move on.


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> You should read history period, and not be led what Islam and Christianity are trying to make out of the history of the region by changing it.
> 
> Until you learn whether 10,000 years of Arab presence in Ancient Canaan is true or not, there is no way for you to move on.
> 
> As long as you believe that Arab Palestinians are the indigenous people of Ancient Canaan, there is no way for you to move on.
> 
> Until you learn that Ashkenazi Jews are indigenous of Ancient Canaan, and not merely "converts" to Judaism, there is no way for you to move on.
> 
> And as long as you continue to dismiss all of the other Jews on the planet, aside from the Ashkenazi, as having indigenous rights to what is left of their homeland, 20%, and wanting to give that 20% to the foreign Arabs who invaded the land in the 7th Century and immigrated more so at the end of the 19th century and early 20th century.....mostly due to Jews creating jobs......and then the Arab leaders begging to move there to outnumber the Jews and keep the Mandate for Israel (Palestine) from happening....
> 
> there is no way for you to ever move on.



I don't care whether the Ashkenazi Jews are originally from Palestine or not. They say they are Jews so they are Jews. Judaism is a religion not a race.

There is no question the Arabs were there for ten thousand years. The Akkadians were Arabs from the Arabian Peninsula.. The Marsh Arabs were from Eastern Saudi Arabia. Sargon 2 settle 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.

Ezra talked about Arabs in Jerusalem. Joseph was sold to the Ishmaelites by his brothers. Abraham and Moses had Arab wives and Abraham had six sons by Keturah.

Jews were always a minority in Palestine after 70 AD.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> I don't care whether the Ashkenazi Jews are originally from Palestine or not. They say they are Jews so they are Jews. Judaism is a religion not a race.
> 
> There is no question the Arabs were there for ten thousand years. The Akkadians were Arabs from the Arabian Peninsula.. The Marsh Arabs were from Eastern Saudi Arabia. Sargon 2 settle 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> Ezra talked about Arabs in Jerusalem. Joseph was sold to the Ishmaelites by his brothers. Abraham and Moses had Arab wives and Abraham had six sons by Keturah.
> 
> Jews were always a minority in Palestine after 70 AD.


The Arkkaddians this, and the Arkkadians that.  They were not Arabs, and Islam's rewriting of their ethnicity won't change that.

Clearly you have read books written by Muslims, and not by historians, and much less have read the Hebrew Scriptures in Hebrew.

"Joseph was sold to the Ishmaelites by his brothers."


As long you you keep holding on to "history" written by Islam.....only written in the past 100 years.......you will never  move on.


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> The Arkkaddians this, and the Arkkadians that.  They were not Arabs, and Islam's rewriting of their ethnicity won't change that.
> 
> Clearly you have read books written by Muslims, and not by historians, and much less have read the Hebrew Scriptures in Hebrew.
> 
> "Joseph was sold to the Ishmaelites by his brothers."
> 
> 
> As long you you keep holding on to "history" written by Islam.....only written in the past 100 years.......you will never  move on.



Of course the Akkadians were Arabs from the Arabian peninsula.. and the Hebrews were probably Canaanites who evolved into monotheists..


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Of course the Akkadians were Arabs from the Arabian peninsula.. and the Hebrews were probably Canaanites who evolved into monotheists..


Arabia is a region, with many ethnicities.  So is Europe, Asia, and the Americas.

Saying that the Akkadians were Arabs, for simply coming from the Peninsula, if they did, would be the same as calling the Dutch, Germans, Polish, etc only Europeans as if they were not of different ethnicities and cultures.

Or calling all indigenous people of North or south or central America, Indians.

There is no " Of course" when it comes to all the things you have learned from Islamic teachers during your lifetime.  Your lifetime happens to coincide with the attempted destruction of the reconstruction of the Nation of Israel, the destruction of 1/3 of the Jewish people, and the continuous attempts to destroy the now Independent State of Israel. Not to speak of the endless attacks on Jews, their homes, Synaguoges, schools and businesses. 

 Something that was happening before the State of Israel, but has become a war cry amongst those who have been taught and choose to believe that Jews have no right to even the 20 % of their homeland left, after the British gave 78% of it.....just because......to Arabs they wanted to make sure were going to help the British cause.

And let us repeat what British history of the Mandate for Palestine was about:

It was NOT about making sure the Jews would achieve a State, as all the other 3 Mandates went on without issues.

It was to keep the Jews from ever achieving it, the 22% left remaining in British hands.   No, fifteen colonies and more are never enough for the British
especially after losing India as they did.


Muslim history of the Jews, of the past 100 years,  is not history.

It is an attempt to destroy Israel, and return the Jews to their dependence on the laws and rules of Islam.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Arabia is a region, with many ethnicities.  So is Europe, Asia, and the Americas.
> 
> Saying that the Akkadians were Arabs, for simply coming from the Peninsula, if they did, would be the same as calling the Dutch, Germans, Polish, etc only Europeans as if they were not of different ethnicities and cultures.
> 
> Or calling all indigenous people of North or south or central America, Indians.
> 
> There is no " Of course" when it comes to all the things you have learned from Islamic teachers during your lifetime.  Your lifetime happens to coincide with the attempted destruction of the reconstruction of the Nation of Israel, the destruction of 1/3 of the Jewish people, and the continuous attempts to destroy the now Independent State of Israel. Not to speak of the endless attacks on Jews, their homes, Synaguoges, schools and businesses.
> 
> Something that was happening before the State of Israel, but has become a war cry amongst those who have been taught and choose to believe that Jews have no right to even the 20 % of their homeland left, after the British gave 78% of it.....just because......to Arabs they wanted to make sure were going to help the British cause.
> 
> And let us repeat what British history of the Mandate for Palestine was about:
> 
> It was NOT about making sure the Jews would achieve a State, as all the other 3 Mandates went on without issues.
> 
> It was to keep the Jews from ever achieving it, the 22% left remaining in British hands.   No, fifteen colonies and more are never enough for the British
> especially after losing India as they did.
> 
> 
> Muslim history of the Jews, of the past 100 years,  is not history.
> 
> It is an attempt to destroy Israel, and return the Jews to their dependence on the laws and rules of Islam.



See how stupid you are? I have never had an Islamic teacher. Yes, Arabs came from the Arabian Peninsula.. They began migrating in waves over 10,000 years ago as the peninsula became more arid.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> See how stupid you are? I have never had an Islamic teacher. Yes, Arabs came from the Arabian Peninsula.. They began migrating in waves over 10,000 years ago as the peninsula became more arid.


And yet, you are still to find ONE archeological evidence OR local history relating those "waves" in this thread, or in the thread I started specifically for the purpose of coming to the truth as to whether Arabs came in "waves" 10,000 years ago, since Abraham, or since the 7th Century CE.


When you do find the evidence, I would love to see it.


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## rylah

surada said:


> I don't care whether the Ashkenazi Jews are originally from Palestine or not. They say they are Jews so they are Jews. Judaism is a religion not a race.



Except your constant race baiting?
There're no atheist Muslims, no atheist Christians...
so something in your little theory obviously doesn't add up for Jews.



surada said:


> There is no question the Arabs were there for ten thousand years. The Akkadians were Arabs from the Arabian Peninsula.. The Marsh Arabs were from Eastern Saudi Arabia. Sargon 2 settle 4 Arab tribes in Samaria in 700 BC.
> 
> 
> Ezra talked about Arabs in Jerusalem. Joseph was sold to the Ishmaelites by his brothers. Abraham and Moses had Arab wives and Abraham had six sons by Keturah.
> 
> Jews were always a minority in Palestine after 70 AD.



Even the dinosaurs were Arabs,
everyone knows that.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The main location featured in Fox’s article is Battir.

“These terraces are rock-walled agricultural plots that have grown olives and vegetables since antiquity. Such farm designs, along with the ancient spring-fed irrigation system, secured Battir a place on the Unesco World Heritage List in 2014. This ancient landscape couldn’t be a more perfect home for an initiative, led by Vivien Sansour, that saves Palestinian heirloom seeds and in turn preserves cultural roots.”

As in previous BBC content relating to that location, no mention is made of its Jewish history.

Fox does however manage to shoehorn an irrelevant and context-free reference to ‘occupation’ into her piece:

“Heirloom seeds, which are non-genetically modified and open pollinated, are important for the health of agriculture all over the world. Sansour believes they are especially important for Palestinians who have been living under Israeli occupation of the West Bank since 1967.  “With each seed we can achieve more autonomy,” she said.”

Readers are even told (twice, apparently due to editing issues) that the wheat based products they consume are thanks to Sansour’s Palestinian ancestors:

“The land around Battir is part of the Fertile Crescent, along with modern day Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon. From this region, wheat was domesticated; some of the wheat Sansour and her community work with is approximately 10,000 years old, dating back to the beginning of agriculture. “The reason the English eat biscuits and everyone eats bread is because of our ancestors,” said Sansour.”

Once again BBC Travel goes down the all too familiar route of promotion of partial political messaging in commissioned ‘life-style’ articles that potentially reach audiences less familiar with the politics and history of the Middle East. 

(full article online)









						BBC Travel again promotes political narrative in ‘lifestyle’ article
					

In the past CAMERA UK has documented several ‘lifestyle’ articles written by freelancers for BBC Travel in which the topic of food was used to promote polit




					camera-uk.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

With a misleading question regarding the Tisha B’Av violence, Sahali subsequently introduced commentator Khaled al-Gharabli, (whose counter-factual observations on the Israel-Hamas escalation in May previously found a welcome platform at France 24 Arabic):


> Khaled, what is this anniversary, anniversary of the Temple’s destruction, *which every year causes clashes and intrusions into the al-Aqsa Mosque plaza*? (Emphasis added.)


That was Al-Gharabli’s signal into launch a monologue which surpassed even the excesses of Odeh, who had uncritically adopted false terminology and the Palestinian nationalist narrative. Al-Gharabli, for his part, claimed that there is “no material evidence” of a Jewish Temple on Temple Mount.

Al-Gharabli also falsely claimed that only Jewish “hardline groups” believe that the Temple stood where Temple Mount is, as if this is an unfounded matter of faith of Jewish extremists and not a consensus among Jews, Christians and Muslims for generations, supported by modern archaeology, as a 2015 _New York Times_ correction was infamously compelled to acknowledge.
He further fabricated that Israel’s alleged archeological digs under the compound, supposedly to locate non-existent evidence of the Temples, threaten the buildings’ foundations. While allegations of Israeli digs on the Temple Mount are a mainstay of Muslim anti-Israel incitement, no such excavations have taken place in the past four decades. Meanwhile, Muslim Waqf construction continues uninterrupted.
The commentator used the terms “al-Aqsa,” “al-Aqsa plaza,” “al-Aqsa Mosque” and “the Jerusalem Sanctuary” interchangeably, thereby confounding the mosque itself, which take up a tiny portion of the Temple Mount plaza and is adjacent to the southern wall, with the entire compound.

Al-Gharabli also railed that the Israeli government’s use of the term “Temple Mount” (the same nomenclature Jews have favored for over two millennia) suggests a sinister intention to destroy the Mosque and the Dome of the Rock and replace it with a rebuilt Jewish Temple. Similarly, he implied that the fact that Jews are even allowed to enter the compound is further proof of Israel’s alleged plan to tear down the Mosque.

(full article online)









						France 24 Arabic's Deep Descent Into Anti-Israel Bias, Denial of Jewish History
					

Falsely alleging that 'hardline groups' of Jews 'believe' the Temples stood on the Temple Mount, France 24 Arabic commentator Khaled al-Gharabli ignores the archeological




					www.camera.org


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Arabia is a region, with many ethnicities.  So is Europe, Asia, and the Americas.
> 
> Saying that the Akkadians were Arabs, for simply coming from the Peninsula, if they did, would be the same as calling the Dutch, Germans, Polish, etc only Europeans as if they were not of different ethnicities and cultures.
> 
> Or calling all indigenous people of North or south or central America, Indians.
> 
> There is no " Of course" when it comes to all the things you have learned from Islamic teachers during your lifetime.  Your lifetime happens to coincide with the attempted destruction of the reconstruction of the Nation of Israel, the destruction of 1/3 of the Jewish people, and the continuous attempts to destroy the now Independent State of Israel. Not to speak of the endless attacks on Jews, their homes, Synaguoges, schools and businesses.
> 
> Something that was happening before the State of Israel, but has become a war cry amongst those who have been taught and choose to believe that Jews have no right to even the 20 % of their homeland left, after the British gave 78% of it.....just because......to Arabs they wanted to make sure were going to help the British cause.
> 
> And let us repeat what British history of the Mandate for Palestine was about:
> 
> It was NOT about making sure the Jews would achieve a State, as all the other 3 Mandates went on without issues.
> 
> It was to keep the Jews from ever achieving it, the 22% left remaining in British hands.   No, fifteen colonies and more are never enough for the British
> especially after losing India as they did.
> 
> 
> Muslim history of the Jews, of the past 100 years,  is not history.
> 
> It is an attempt to destroy Israel, and return the Jews to their dependence on the laws and rules of Islam.



LOLOL.. What many ethnicities are you talking about?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> With a misleading question regarding the Tisha B’Av violence, Sahali subsequently introduced commentator Khaled al-Gharabli, (whose counter-factual observations on the Israel-Hamas escalation in May previously found a welcome platform at France 24 Arabic):
> 
> That was Al-Gharabli’s signal into launch a monologue which surpassed even the excesses of Odeh, who had uncritically adopted false terminology and the Palestinian nationalist narrative. Al-Gharabli, for his part, claimed that there is “no material evidence” of a Jewish Temple on Temple Mount.
> 
> Al-Gharabli also falsely claimed that only Jewish “hardline groups” believe that the Temple stood where Temple Mount is, as if this is an unfounded matter of faith of Jewish extremists and not a consensus among Jews, Christians and Muslims for generations, supported by modern archaeology, as a 2015 _New York Times_ correction was infamously compelled to acknowledge.
> He further fabricated that Israel’s alleged archeological digs under the compound, supposedly to locate non-existent evidence of the Temples, threaten the buildings’ foundations. While allegations of Israeli digs on the Temple Mount are a mainstay of Muslim anti-Israel incitement, no such excavations have taken place in the past four decades. Meanwhile, Muslim Waqf construction continues uninterrupted.
> The commentator used the terms “al-Aqsa,” “al-Aqsa plaza,” “al-Aqsa Mosque” and “the Jerusalem Sanctuary” interchangeably, thereby confounding the mosque itself, which take up a tiny portion of the Temple Mount plaza and is adjacent to the southern wall, with the entire compound.
> 
> Al-Gharabli also railed that the Israeli government’s use of the term “Temple Mount” (the same nomenclature Jews have favored for over two millennia) suggests a sinister intention to destroy the Mosque and the Dome of the Rock and replace it with a rebuilt Jewish Temple. Similarly, he implied that the fact that Jews are even allowed to enter the compound is further proof of Israel’s alleged plan to tear down the Mosque.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> France 24 Arabic's Deep Descent Into Anti-Israel Bias, Denial of Jewish History
> 
> 
> Falsely alleging that 'hardline groups' of Jews 'believe' the Temples stood on the Temple Mount, France 24 Arabic commentator Khaled al-Gharabli ignores the archeological
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.camera.org



Don't be ridiculous. When Omar arrived in Jerusalem he ASKED where the Jewish Temple had stood.. He was shown the city dump so he cleaned it up, began construction on the mosque and invited the Jews to return to Jerusalem.


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## Sixties Fan

( What so many Muslims are led to believe from the time they are born, which turns into incitement to ....... Al Gharabli says it best.  )

*Khaled al-Gharabli’s full monologue about Temple Mount ‘intruded’ by Jews on Tisha B’Av*
“According to Jewish doctrine, *the Temple, Solomon’s Temple, where the Ark of the Covenant was found, along with the Tablets, on which the divine Commandments came down to the Jews,* this Temple was destroyed twice, according to the Jewish doctrine. Once in 589 [in fact, 586] BC, at the hands of the Babylonians, and the second time was in 70 AD at the hands of the Romans. This is a day of sadness for the Jews, a day of grief, they fast and refrain from anything of comfort, to mark or to indicate their sadness and grief of that day, the day where the Temple was destroyed and the Tables were lost. Of course nowadays it became a [Judaism] cornerstone.
“Now, the question is *why on this anniversary do they intrude al-Aqsa Mosque?* I mean, *these hardline groups*, their message is clear, they, as they say, ‘we do not forget that the place of the Temple is the same place where the al-Aqsa Mosque stands.’ To them, the al-Aqsa Mosque stands on the same place where the Temple is. A few faint voices among them say that they want to rebuild the Temple instead of al-Aqsa Mosque. It is possible for us to say, these are hardline groups. And *there are the Temple groups which carry out digging operations underneath al-Aqsa Mosque,* in search of a proof that the Temple used to be found on this place, because *there is no substantial, no material evidence that the place of the Temple is the same place of al-Aqsa Mosque.*
“What is worrying with this issue is, I think, if this was the conduct of a few hardliners… what is worrying is the conduct of the Israeli authorities. Firstly, the digging operations are carried out with the Israeli authorities’ consent, which allow them. Why do they allow them, *while it threatens al-Aqsa’s remaining in place?* And they know full well that al-Aqsa is one of the Islamic faith’s, and Muslims,’ cornerstones. *Why does the police allow the intrusions?* The police is the one which protects those who carry out the intrusion the Jerusalem sanctuary.
“Why does Netanyahu, even when he had promised that Muslims could enter and perform their religious rituals in al-Aqsa Mosque, he never uses the word ‘al-Aqsa Mosque,’ he uses the word ‘Temple Mount.’ *When he speaks about the al-Aqsa Mosque, he says ‘Temple Mount.’* Why does he see the Temple Mount on this place and does not see al-Aqsa while al-Aqsa is the one found [there], *and we do not see Temple Mount*. Does this mean that he wants to rebuild the Temple in that place? Palestinian voices accuse the Israelis that they want to enforce sovereignty on the Jerusalem Sanctuary as a first step to destroy the al-Aqsa Mosque and subsequently rebuilding the Temple.
*And the conduct of Israeli authorities, by the means of allowing the digging, by the means of allowing operations of Judaization, in talking about dividing al-Aqsa plaza in time and space, by using terms like ‘Temple Mount’ regarding al-Aqsa Mosque, all of this strengthens what the Palestinians say, i.e. fears concerning the idea of rebuilding the Temple instead of al-Aqsa.* And the gravity of the matter, is that here the conflict shall no longer be a conflict about occupied land and a people suffering from occupation, but rather a conflict between two religions, and religious conflicts are the most bloody.”

France 24 Arabic's Deep Descent Into Anti-Israel Bias, Denial of Jewish History


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Don't be ridiculous. When Omar arrived in Jerusalem he ASKED where the Jewish Temple had stood.. He was shown the city dump so he cleaned it up, began construction on the mosque and invited the Jews to return to Jerusalem.


That was then.....Jews were second citizens to the invading Muslims.

This is now.   Jews have gained Sovereignty over 20% of their homeland.

Had they tried it then, they would have faced the same attacks as the Jews today have.

No different from the invading Romans who did not like it one bit when the Judeans declared their freedom with Bar Kochba.
The Romans saw to it that it would not last long.

The Muslims continue to dream that the Jews will have the same ending, and the homeland of the Jews will return to the invaders.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: The Right To Destroy Jewish History
SUBTOPIC: Direct of the Posting
⁜→ surada, et al,

*BLUF*:  Sometimes we get confused when we star the splitting of hairs.  I think this is one of those cases.



surada said:


> Of course the Akkadians were Arabs from the Arabian peninsula.. and the Hebrews were probably Canaanites who evolved into monotheists..


*(COMMENT)(**LIMITED to MY way of THINKING**)*

Akkadains are people who spoke the now extinct "East Semitic" language of about 5000 years ago.  Today, we are not even sure what the language sounded like, although in print, we have a limited understanding.

This is a bit different from those desert-dwelling pastoral nomads people who spoke Arabic (Arabians) which still exist today.  Arabian (people who speak Arabic) still has meaning today.

Akkadians did not evolve from Arabs.  They are descriptions of people who spoke a specific language.  And today, it makes even less sense to hang a definition on people by language.  It is not uncommon, when traveling in the Middle East • North African (MENA) Region who have spoken multiple languages their entire lives.  There is a very large percentage of Israelis who speak Hebrew, Arabic, and English in near equal fluency.  But they are collectively known as Israelis.  Just like Arab-Palestinians who speak multiple languages are something other than Israeli.  

Today, a language is no longer a valid means of ethnic or cultural difference.

Deborah (fl. 12th century BC) *Prophet and heroine of the Hebrew scriptures.*  Her story is told in the book of Judges.  With her general, Barak, *she is credited with defeating the Canaanite armies led by Sisera*.  The Israelite victory over the Canaanites, which was aided by a thunderstorm that Israel saw as the coming of God from Mount Sinai, was celebrated in the “Song of Deborah” (Judges 5), possibly the earliest portion of the Bible.​​And let us not get entangled with ancient "Canaanites."  That will lead to arguments that would take an Indiana Jones to break up.

Rewriting history is a political game that Academicians play in dissertations and manuscripts for publication.  New ideas and alternatives are right up there with criticisms and fault findings.  The only thing worse is Colonels bucking for their first star and journalist working for that big breaking story that will get them a Pulitzer Prize.  What really happened, has nothing to do with truth.

Just My Thought,



Most Respectfully,
R

*(REFERENCES)

Arab •* Any member of the ARABIC-speaking peoples native to the Middle East and North Africa. Before the spread of Islam in the 630s, the term referred to the largely nomadic Semitic peoples of the ARABIAN PENINSULA; it came to apply to Arabic-speaking peoples from Africa’s Mauritanian and Moroccan coasts east to Iraq and the Arabian Peninsula and south to The Sudan after their acceptance of Islam. Traditionally, some Arabs are desert-dwelling pastoral nomads (see BEDOUIN), whereas others live by oases and in small, isolated farming villages. While most Arabs are Muslims, some are Christian. The term has also been used in a political sense by Arab nationalists to describe a greater sociolinguistic or ethnic ideal (“the Arab nation”). See also PAN-ARABISM.
*SOURCE*:  Encyclopædia Britannica  © 2006 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc. pp. 92

*Fertile Crescent Region*, MIDDLE EAST • The term describes a crescent-shaped area of arable land, probably more agriculturally productive in antiquity than it is today. Historically the area stretched from the southeastern
coast of the Mediterranean Sea around the Syrian Desert north of the ARABIAN PENINSULA to the PERSIAN GULF; in general, it often includes the NILE RIVER valley as well. Sedentary agricultural settlements in the Fertile Crescent can be dated to c. 8000 BC. It was the scene of the struggles and migrations of some of the earliest known peoples, including *Sumerians, Assyrians, Akkadians, various Semitic groups, Babylonians, and Phoenicians*.
*SOURCE:  *Encyclopædia Britannica © 2006 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc. pp 668

*Hebrew* language SEMITIC LANGUAGE that is both a sacred language of Judaism and a modern vernacular in Israel. Like ARAMAIC, to which it is closely related,* Hebrew has a documented history of nearly 3,000 years*. The earliest fully attested stage of the language is Biblical Hebrew: the earlier parts (“Standard Biblical Hebrew”) date before 500 BC and include even older poetic passages; the later parts (“Late Biblical Hebrew”) were composed c. 500–200 BC. Post-Biblical Hebrew, variously termed Rabbinic or Mishnaic Hebrew (see MISHNA), is characterized by an early period when Hebrew was still probably to some degree a vernacular and a later period, after c. AD 200, when Aramaic became the everyday speech of Jews in the Middle East. The 6th and 7th centuries marked a transition to Medieval Hebrew. The resurrection of Hebrew as a vernacular is closely linked with the 18th-century HASKALA movement and 20th-century ZIONISM. Contemporary Israeli Hebrew is spoken by about five million people in Israel and abroad. See also ASHKENAZI; SEPHARDI; HEBREW ALPHABET.
*SOURCE:* © 2006 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc. pp 668

*Jew* Any person whose religion is JUDAISM. In a wider sense, the term refers to any member of a worldwide ethnic and cultural group *descended from the ancient Hebrews *who traditionally practiced the Jewish religion.  The Hebrew term Yehudi, translated as Judaeus in Latin and Jew in English, originally referred to a member of the tribe of JUDAH. In Jewish tradition, any child born of a Jewish mother is considered a Jew; in REFORM JUDAISM a child is considered a Jew if either parent is Jewish.
*SOURCE:*   Encyclopædia Britannica © 2006 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc. pp 854

*Mesopotamia* • Region between the TIGRIS and EUPHRATES rivers in the Middle East, constituting the greater part of modern Iraq. The region’s location and fertility gave rise to settlements from c. 10,000 BC, and it became the cradle of some of the world’s earliest civilizations and the birthplace of writing. It was first settled by the Sumerians, who were *succeeded by the Akkadians* and later by the Babylonians. Successive peoples came to dominate the region until the rise of the Persian Achaemenian dynasty in the 6th century BC. The Achaemenids were overthrown by Alexander the Great in the early 4th century BC, and Mesopotamia was ruled by the SELEUCID DYNASTY from c. 312 BC until the mid-2nd century BC, when it became part of the Parthian empire. In the 7th century AD the
region was conquered by *Muslim Arabs*.
*SOURCE:*  Encyclopædia Britannica © 2006 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc. pp 1242


----------



## surada

RoccoR said:


> RE: The Right To Destroy Jewish History
> SUBTOPIC: Direct of the Posting
> ⁜→ surada, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  Sometimes we get confused when we star the splitting of hairs.  I think this is one of those cases.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)(**LIMITED to MY way of THINKING**)*
> 
> Akkadains are people who spoke the now extinct "East Semitic" language of about 5000 years ago.  Today, we are not even sure what the language sounded like, although in print, we have a limited understanding.
> 
> This is a bit different from those desert-dwelling pastoral nomads people who spoke Arabic (Arabians) which still exist today.  Arabian (people who speak Arabic) still has meaning today.
> 
> Akkadians did not evolve from Arabs.  They are descriptions of people who spoke a specific language.  And today, it makes even less sense to hang a definition on people by language.  It is not uncommon, when traveling in the Middle East • North African (MENA) Region who have spoken multiple languages their entire lives.  There is a very large percentage of Israelis who speak Hebrew, Arabic, and English in near equal fluency.  But they are collectively known as Israelis.  Just like Arab-Palestinians who speak multiple languages are something other than Israeli.
> 
> Today, a language is no longer a valid means of ethnic or cultural difference.
> 
> Deborah (fl. 12th century BC) *Prophet and heroine of the Hebrew scriptures.*  Her story is told in the book of Judges.  With her general, Barak, *she is credited with defeating the Canaanite armies led by Sisera*.  The Israelite victory over the Canaanites, which was aided by a thunderstorm that Israel saw as the coming of God from Mount Sinai, was celebrated in the “Song of Deborah” (Judges 5), possibly the earliest portion of the Bible.​​And let us not get entangled with ancient "Canaanites."  That will lead to arguments that would take an Indiana Jones to break up.
> 
> Rewriting history is a political game that Academicians play in dissertations and manuscripts for publication.  New ideas and alternatives are right up there with criticisms and fault findings.  The only thing worse is Colonels bucking for their first star and journalist working for that big breaking story that will get them a Pulitzer Prize.  What really happened, has nothing to do with truth.
> 
> Just My Thought,
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> *(REFERENCES)
> 
> Arab •* Any member of the ARABIC-speaking peoples native to the Middle East and North Africa. Before the spread of Islam in the 630s, the term referred to the largely nomadic Semitic peoples of the ARABIAN PENINSULA; it came to apply to Arabic-speaking peoples from Africa’s Mauritanian and Moroccan coasts east to Iraq and the Arabian Peninsula and south to The Sudan after their acceptance of Islam. Traditionally, some Arabs are desert-dwelling pastoral nomads (see BEDOUIN), whereas others live by oases and in small, isolated farming villages. While most Arabs are Muslims, some are Christian. The term has also been used in a political sense by Arab nationalists to describe a greater sociolinguistic or ethnic ideal (“the Arab nation”). See also PAN-ARABISM.
> *SOURCE*:  Encyclopædia Britannica  © 2006 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc. pp. 92
> 
> *Fertile Crescent Region*, MIDDLE EAST • The term describes a crescent-shaped area of arable land, probably more agriculturally productive in antiquity than it is today. Historically the area stretched from the southeastern
> coast of the Mediterranean Sea around the Syrian Desert north of the ARABIAN PENINSULA to the PERSIAN GULF; in general, it often includes the NILE RIVER valley as well. Sedentary agricultural settlements in the Fertile Crescent can be dated to c. 8000 BC. It was the scene of the struggles and migrations of some of the earliest known peoples, including *Sumerians, Assyrians, Akkadians, various Semitic groups, Babylonians, and Phoenicians*.
> *SOURCE:  *Encyclopædia Britannica © 2006 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc. pp 668
> 
> *Hebrew* language SEMITIC LANGUAGE that is both a sacred language of Judaism and a modern vernacular in Israel. Like ARAMAIC, to which it is closely related,* Hebrew has a documented history of nearly 3,000 years*. The earliest fully attested stage of the language is Biblical Hebrew: the earlier parts (“Standard Biblical Hebrew”) date before 500 BC and include even older poetic passages; the later parts (“Late Biblical Hebrew”) were composed c. 500–200 BC. Post-Biblical Hebrew, variously termed Rabbinic or Mishnaic Hebrew (see MISHNA), is characterized by an early period when Hebrew was still probably to some degree a vernacular and a later period, after c. AD 200, when Aramaic became the everyday speech of Jews in the Middle East. The 6th and 7th centuries marked a transition to Medieval Hebrew. The resurrection of Hebrew as a vernacular is closely linked with the 18th-century HASKALA movement and 20th-century ZIONISM. Contemporary Israeli Hebrew is spoken by about five million people in Israel and abroad. See also ASHKENAZI; SEPHARDI; HEBREW ALPHABET.
> *SOURCE:* © 2006 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc. pp 668
> 
> *Jew* Any person whose religion is JUDAISM. In a wider sense, the term refers to any member of a worldwide ethnic and cultural group *descended from the ancient Hebrews *who traditionally practiced the Jewish religion.  The Hebrew term Yehudi, translated as Judaeus in Latin and Jew in English, originally referred to a member of the tribe of JUDAH. In Jewish tradition, any child born of a Jewish mother is considered a Jew; in REFORM JUDAISM a child is considered a Jew if either parent is Jewish.
> *SOURCE:*   Encyclopædia Britannica © 2006 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc. pp 854
> 
> *Mesopotamia* • Region between the TIGRIS and EUPHRATES rivers in the Middle East, constituting the greater part of modern Iraq. The region’s location and fertility gave rise to settlements from c. 10,000 BC, and it became the cradle of some of the world’s earliest civilizations and the birthplace of writing. It was first settled by the Sumerians, who were *succeeded by the Akkadians* and later by the Babylonians. Successive peoples came to dominate the region until the rise of the Persian Achaemenian dynasty in the 6th century BC. The Achaemenids were overthrown by Alexander the Great in the early 4th century BC, and Mesopotamia was ruled by the SELEUCID DYNASTY from c. 312 BC until the mid-2nd century BC, when it became part of the Parthian empire. In the 7th century AD the
> region was conquered by *Muslim Arabs*.
> *SOURCE:*  Encyclopædia Britannica © 2006 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc. pp 1242



The Arabs of the Arabian peninsula spoke several now extinct languages. They were still Arabs.


Akkadian language - Wikipedia








						Akkadian language - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Akkadian is an extinct East Semitic language that was spoken in ancient Mesopotamia (Akkad, Assyria, Isin, Larsa and Babylonia) from the third millennium BC until its gradual replacement by Akkadian-influenced Old Aramaic among Mesopotamians by the 8th century BC. It is the earliest attested Semitic language. It used the cuneiform script, which was originally used to write the unrelated, and als…

Akkadian belongs with the other Semitic languages in the Near Eastern branch of the Afroasiatic languages, a family native to the Middle East, Arabian Peninsula, the Horn of Africa, parts of Anatolia, North Africa, Malta, Canary Islands and parts of West Africa (Hausa). Akkadian and its successor Aramaic, however, are only ever attested in Mesopotamia and the Near East


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Arabs of the Arabian peninsula spoke several now extinct languages. They were still Arabs.
> 
> 
> Akkadian language - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Akkadian language - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Akkadian is an extinct East Semitic language that was spoken in ancient Mesopotamia (Akkad, Assyria, Isin, Larsa and Babylonia) from the third millennium BC until its gradual replacement by Akkadian-influenced Old Aramaic among Mesopotamians by the 8th century BC. It is the earliest attested Semitic language. It used the cuneiform script, which was originally used to write the unrelated, and als…
> 
> Akkadian belongs with the other Semitic languages in the Near Eastern branch of the Afroasiatic languages, a family native to the Middle East, Arabian Peninsula, the Horn of Africa, parts of Anatolia, North Africa, Malta, Canary Islands and parts of West Africa (Hausa). Akkadian and its successor Aramaic, however, are only ever attested in Mesopotamia and the Near East


It is always amazing when anyone takes something that has nothing to do with the issue, like who the Akkadians were, and generalizes it to the point where one should think that .....yes, that is right!!!!

The Akkadian language has nothing to do with who they were, and they clearly did not speak Arabic.  And that language did not evolve into Arabic, either.

There are different people living in Arabia, as there were different people living in Mesopotamia, or in Ancient Canaan, and those people continue to be distinct from each other, regardless of the fact that so many of them have had their identity disappear with time.

Akkadians were not Arabs, and cannot be forced to be.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: The Right To Destroy Jewish History
SUBTOPIC: Language
⁜→ surada, et al,

My point exactly.  You cannot use language as a defining term. 


			
				RoccoR said:
			
		

> Today, a language is no longer a valid means of ethnic or cultural difference.





surada said:


> The Arabs of the Arabian peninsula spoke several now extinct languages. They were still Arabs.


*(COMMENT)*

It is an incidental or supplemental characteristic to a people of a specific ethnic or cultural landscape.  In the statement you made, you are using a geographic perimeter (Arabian Peninsula) as the principal defining fact, not language.  But in the time before the Great War, the People of the Hajez thought of themselves as descendants from Hashim, great-grandfather of Muhammad.

Over time, the perspectives on these questions can change.  The terrain remains the same, but the mind of the people standing on it may dramatically change.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> It is always amazing when anyone takes something that has nothing to do with the issue, like who the Akkadians were, and generalizes it to the point where one should think that .....yes, that is right!!!!
> 
> The Akkadian language has nothing to do with who they were, and they clearly did not speak Arabic.  And that language did not evolve into Arabic, either.
> 
> There are different people living in Arabia, as there were different people living in Mesopotamia, or in Ancient Canaan, and those people continue to be distinct from each other, regardless of the fact that so many of them have had their identity disappear with time.
> 
> Akkadians were not Arabs, and cannot be forced to be.



They were still Arabs from the Arabian peninsula... Who do you think they were?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> They were still Arabs from the Arabian peninsula... Who do you think they were?


They did not think of themselves as Arabs. They were different from the Arabs as stated before and created an Empire which had nothing to do with Arabs or Arabic.  

But you will forever insist that they were.

You rewrite their history, as much as Arabs now want to rewrite Jewish history.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Right before Rosh Hashanah, the American Federation of Teachers in San Diego, Local 1931, issued an anti-Israel statement. 

This statement is worth reading in full, because not only does it say that Jews have no right to self-determination, but it relies on lies in nearly every sentence to make that point. 

Teachers who teach bigotry and lies would appear to be supremely unqualified to be teachers.

Here is the statement:



> WHEREAS, the AFT Guild condemns the forced removal of Palestinian residents in West Jerusalem,


West Jerusalem? This must be talking about 1948, and Arabs in West Jerusalem were not forcibly removed from their homes.  


> the bombing of civilian areas in the besieged Gaza Strip,


Every target in the Gaza Strip, in every war, was pre-determined according to the laws of armed conflict to have been military targets. Every one. 


> and the continued human rights violations committed by the Israeli government during its 73-year occupation of this land.


By saying "73-year occupation" the statement says that all of Israel is "occupied." Even the UN doesn't make that claim. It is a statement not against occupation but against the very existence of a Jewish state and the concept of Jewish self-determination. It is pure antisemitism.  


> It is unfortunate that civilians on both sides have suffered casualties, yet Israel’s use of advanced weaponry in its indiscriminate bombing of the Gaza strip has claimed a significantly greater and disproportionate number of Palestinian lives and destroyed essential infrastructure in the already oppressed occupied territories.


Here the statement switches its definition of "occupied," showing that the teachers that drafted this statement are completely unconcerned with consistency, let alone truth. 
The bombing of Gaza has never been indiscriminate, which can be proven by a modicum of research.
The statement evokes a violation of international law with its use of the term "disproportionate" but in fact Israeli actions are not in the least disproportionate, and no army in history has taken more care to protect the civilian population of an area where they are used as human shields by the enemy as Israel has.



> WHEREAS, the recent forced removal of Palestinian civilians from homes they occupied in Shaikh Jarrah for generations follows a 73-year pattern of disenfranchising Palestinians of their rights, property and the opportunity to live with dignity.


The Palestinians who have fought a losing legal battle for homes they do not own have not been forcibly removed. 


> Since 1967, home demolitions, land confiscations, systemic denial of building permits, and massive illegal settlement building (a violation of Article 49 of the Geneva Convention) on virtually every part of the occupied Palestinian territories, have become official Israeli policy, despite repeated condemnation by the international community.


It would take multiple articles to show how many lies are in this sentence, but all of the things listed here have been approved by the Israeli High Court - not to mention many things that the Israeli legal system did not approve  - and one would be hard pressed to find a sober legal analysis of their rulings finding that they violate international law. 
Building settlements is not a violation of Article 49 of the Geneva Conventions. It says nothing about building on disputed land.

---------




The AFT, pretending to care about peace in the Middle East, accompanies its statement with a graphic of a raised fist - hardly the logo of someone who wants all peoples of the Middle East to live in peace and harmony.

Literally every paragraph and practically every sentence of this statement is a lie, and many of them are quite antisemitic. This is besides the fact that this statement gives a green light to attack Jewish teachers who believe that Israel has the right to exist in contradiction to the beliefs of the union. This statement chills free speech. 

Teachers in San Diego are now open to being censured or attacked by their own union for telling the truth.

This is an outrageous litany of lies, supported by people who are supposed to care about the truth. It is a statement of bigotry written by those who are supposed to teach children to treat people equally. It is hypocrisy in its purest sense. 

And every minute that this bigoted statement filled with falsehoods is not denounced by the national union of teachers, the lies and antisemitism are condoned by those who are teaching every American child.

(full article online)









						American Federation of Teachers - San Diego issues an anti-Israel statement filled with antisemitism and lies
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority unremittingly teaches Palestinians - and in particular youth - that all of Israel is “Palestine” and that Israel has no right to exist in any borders. One way the PA instills the message is through activities in summer camps arranged by the PLO Supreme Council for Youth and Sports.

This year too, Palestinian children were taught that there is no Israel but only “occupied Palestine” as they spent time drawing maps in which all of Israel and the PA areas are painted as one country and in the colors of the Palestinian flag.

The following are maps of “Palestine” made by or shown to children in the PA summer camps which are run by the PLO:







A video showed drawings of the PA’s map that shows all of Israel and the PA areas as one “Palestine” made by children in PLO Supreme Council for Youth and Sports summer camps.

[Facebook page of the PLO Supreme Council for Youth and Sports, Aug. 19, 2021]






Camp participants hold a drawing of the PA map of “Palestine” in the colors of the Palestinian flag. To the west of the map is written “The Mediterranean Sea,” to the north is written “Lebanon,” to the east is written “Jordan,” and to the south is written “The Gulf of Aqaba.”

[Facebook page of the PLO Supreme Council for Youth and Sports, Aug. 4, 2021]






Camp participants have drawn the PA map of “Palestine.”

[Facebook page of the PLO Supreme Council for Youth and Sports, Aug. 7, 2021

(full article online)









						Maps of “Palestine” in PA summer camps teach children about a world without Israel | PMW Analysis
					

The Palestinian Authority unremittingly teaches Palestinians - and in particular youth - that all of Israel is “Palestine” and that Israel has no right to exist in any borders




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ignoring thousands of years of history and countless artifacts, the Palestinian leadership lies to their own children about the facts regarding Jerusalem and the Jewish People’s profound connection to the Holy City.

A Palestinian child standing in a playground says on an official PA TV program that Jerusalem is “occupied” by Israel. He says that the city is holy for Muslims and Christians but doesn’t mention the deep Jewish connection to their eternal capital.

The Palestinians “are demanding to liberate it,” he declares.

The world should be outraged that innocent Palestinian children are fed lies, especially when the result is hatred, anti-Semitism and violence.

(full article online)









						WATCH: Brainwashed Palestinian Child Says Jerusalem Must Be Liberated, Incites Violence | United with Israel
					

Palestinian children are taught lies and are not given the truth about the history of Jerusalem leading to hatred and violence against Jews.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> They did not think of themselves as Arabs. They were different from the Arabs as stated before and created an Empire which had nothing to do with Arabs or Arabic.
> 
> But you will forever insist that they were.
> 
> You rewrite their history, as much as Arabs now want to rewrite Jewish history.



How do you know they didn't think of themselves as Arabs? 
Sargon 2 settled four Arab tribes in Samaria about 700 BC and they thought they were Arabs and so did Sargon.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Ignoring thousands of years of history and countless artifacts, the Palestinian leadership lies to their own children about the facts regarding Jerusalem and the Jewish People’s profound connection to the Holy City.
> 
> A Palestinian child standing in a playground says on an official PA TV program that Jerusalem is “occupied” by Israel. He says that the city is holy for Muslims and Christians but doesn’t mention the deep Jewish connection to their eternal capital.
> 
> The Palestinians “are demanding to liberate it,” he declares.
> 
> The world should be outraged that innocent Palestinian children are fed lies, especially when the result is hatred, anti-Semitism and violence.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WATCH: Brainwashed Palestinian Child Says Jerusalem Must Be Liberated, Incites Violence | United with Israel
> 
> 
> Palestinian children are taught lies and are not given the truth about the history of Jerusalem leading to hatred and violence against Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unitedwithisrael.org



The Zionists weren't given East Jerusalem, Shaaba Farms, the West Bank or the Golan Height.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> How do you know they didn't think of themselves as Arabs?
> Sargon 2 settled four Arab tribes in Samaria about 700 BC and they thought they were Arabs and so did Sargon.



Because if they did, you wouldn't be asking for a proof of a negative,
arguing that Arabs were generically just about everyone and anyone in the Middle East.

Arabs have this cultural complex, to compensate by turning major historic figures and nations around them, by brainwashing their people to believe they were all Arabs.

The Samaritans are Mesopotamian, and today they're no more than 400 people left.
In recent decades the community had no girls being born, and they refused to
 marry any Arabs, only Jewish women, all consider themselves Israelites.


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> Because if they did, you wouldn't be asking for a proof of a negative,
> arguing that Arabs were generically just about everyone and anyone in the Middle East.
> 
> Arabs have this cultural complex, to compensate by turning major historic figures and nations around them, by brainwashing their people to believe they were all Arabs.
> 
> The Samaritans are Mesopotamian, and today they're no more than 400 people left.
> In recent decades the community had no girls being born, and they refused to
> marry any Arabs, only Jewish women, all consider themselves Israelites.



The Arabs have been there for more than 10,000 years because they began migrating in waves as the peninsula changed from savanna to desert. Why is that threatening?

The Canaanites have a very ancient history in the region.. Look at Urfa and Harran and the Ugarite tablets.

And the Natufians go way back to Jericho and Jordan and the Levant.

History is far older than Adam and Eve. My God, Israel has some of the finest Archaeologists in the world.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> The Zionists weren't given East Jerusalem, Shaaba Farms, the West Bank or the Golan Height.



Is that how you brainwash kids to die
for Arab supremacy in the entire Middle East?

_"The Zionists weren't given...!" _Quiet cheap value for life,  don't you think?


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> The Arabs have been there for more than 10,000 years because they began migrating in waves as the peninsula changed from savanna to desert. Why is that threatening?
> 
> The Canaanites have a very ancient history in the region.. Look at Urfa and Harran and the Ugarite tablets.
> 
> And the Natufians go way back to Jericho and Jordan and the Levant.
> 
> History is far older than Adam and Eve. My God, Israel has some of the finest Archaeologists in the world.



What is threatening? All you do is repeat stale none sense,
and ask for a proof of a negative changing the goalposts,
'cause you're a lame rug seller - without the rugs.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: The Right To Destroy Jewish History
SUBTOPIC: Language
⁜→ surada, et al,

*BLUF*:  The Arab Palestinians were not given anything.



surada said:


> The Zionists weren't given East Jerusalem, Shaaba Farms, the West Bank or the Golan Height.


*(COMMENT)*

This kind of banter does nothing to further poor outlined Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) claims or objections → to what is fact anded ground truth today.

I've been kind of quiet these last couple of days and just studied the implied allegations and the attempt to express an obligation that the HoAP is owed something.  

You cannot detach your argument from the events of the modern-day → and force people to look backwards in time as a means of justification and validity to the HoAP claim to something.

IF there is a claim, THEN the HoAP must state it clearly and present arguments to support that claim.  No finding, stela, token or stone tablet by Indiana Jones is going to change a damn thing for either side of the argument.  The HoAP must offer something substantial, clear and convincing that demonstrates that whatever Israel did outside the actual way the world has worked in the past, today or in the future.

And one more thing.  IF you are going to use the word "Zionist" THEN you must define that term.  Are you talking about the ideology, the movement of the common belief that the development of Israel is - is in the best interest of the Jewish National Home (JNH).  And the JNH - written into the seam of history is a concept made real by the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers over a century ago.   What are you claiming the Supreme Council did that was not within their power to do - back then?  




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

In the days leading up to the 20th anniversary of the Sept. 11 terror attacks, NPR dedicated special coverage to the event and its implications. The way the news organization spun its story about Israel during that coverage, though, was anything but special. It was just more of the same slanted reporting, effectively erasing Palestinian terrorism while shifting blame for the violence onto the targets.

NPR has long been seen as biased against Israel, and those suspicions have been borne out by in-depth studies, moments of candor by NPR reporters, and even examples of NPR journalists amplifying antisemitism.

The latest example of skewed reporting, a September 10 Morning Edition segment anchored by NPR’s Daniel Estrin and entitled “How the Events of 9/11 Still Affect the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict,” was a tall tale of Palestinian leaders behaving responsibly after September 11 and Israel being responsible for Palestinian suicide bombing attacks on Israeli civilians.

In the account told by Estrin and his featured speakers, 9/11 came one year into a Palestinian “uprising” that involved “militant bombings and shootings and attacks by Israeli troops.” After the attacks on America, Palestinians, who Estrin says were merely “fighting for an independent state,” didn’t want to be conflated with _real_ terrorists like Al-Qaida. So Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat called for an end to the intifada and, “for a short time, violence decreased.”

Stopping attacks on civilians certainly sounds like the responsible thing to do. But the violence continued. “_t didn’t stop,” said one of the segment’s speakers, “and not because of Yasser Arafat, because of the Israeli side.” Estrin elaborated: “In January 2002, Israel killed a top West Bank militant, restarting a policy of assassinations.

The NPR anchor did admit that “not everyone puts the blame on Israel,” which is perhaps a concession, although “not everyone” certainly sounds a lot like “just about everyone.” The assassination, Estrin continued, was followed by a Palestinian suicide bombing in March 2002, on Passover. And that attack, coupled with Israel’s sense that America would understand its concerns after 9/11, led to an Israeli invasion of the West Bank, “killing hundreds of Palestinians.”

The general message of the segment, then, is that while 9/11 convinced Palestinians to turn away from violence, Israel used the attacks as an excuse to go on the offensive. And because of that, Israel, the victim of ongoing Palestinian terror attacks, should be blamed for those war crimes targeting its civilians.
------
Did Palestinian violence against Israelis really decrease after 9/11, as listeners were told?

Before the attacks, in the eleven full months between the start of the intifada in late September 2000 and September 11, 2001 an average of *15 *Israelis were killed per month by Palestinian attackers.




The number of Israeli fatalities continued on its upward trend after Sept. 11, 2001, and December 2001 was the deadliest month yet. Click to expand. (Image source.)
By contrast, in the three months after September 2001 and before January 2002, when Israel supposedly ruined the relative calm by killing a Palestinian terrorist, an average of *22* Israelis were killed per month.

So contrary to NPR’s account of a Palestinian leadership chastened by 9/11, deadly Palestinian violence increased after the al Qaida attacks. Indeed, December 2001, the month just prior to the killing of the Palestinian terrorist, was by far the deadliest month for Israelis since the start of the Palestinian campaign of violence, with 40 Israelis killed.

(full article online)









						On NPR, a Different Kind of 9/11 Revisionism Blames Israel for Palestinian Terrorism
					

By rewriting history and erasing inconvenient events, NPR tells a tall tale of Palestinian leaders behaving responsibly after September 11, and of Israel being




					www.camera.org
				



_


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Sept. 16 UPDATE:*

_New York Times_ Corrects​Following the publication of this post and additional communication from CAMERA to senior _New York Times _staff_, _editors published corrections, online Sept. 14 and in print today, acknowledging "separate kingdoms remained sovereign for hundreds of years." See below for a detailed update.
------------------

In fact, the Kingdom of Judah was extant for more than 300 years, from the time of the collapse of the United Kingdom of Israel in 922 BCE until the Babylonian conquest in 586 BC. (The United Kingdom lasted for approximately a century, starting around 1020 BCE).
The northern Kingdom of Israel, the other half of what became of the United Kingdom when it fell apart in 922 BCE, lasted for approximately 200 years, until the Neo-Assyrian empire conquest.
Besides these three separate kingdoms of Jewish rule (two of which were contemporaneous), there was also the Hasmonean dynasty, which achieved autonomy from the Seleucides in 147 BCE and independence in in 129 BCE. The Kingdom lasted for some 80 years.
Thus, four Jewish kingdoms pre-dated the modern Jewish state during antiquity, and the longest one lasted more than three centuries, not 80 years. By falsely reporting that the longest Jewish rule in Israel fell in less than 100 years, _The Times_ minimizes the historic Jewish connection to ancient Israel, eroding the legitimacy of the present Jewish state.





Tellingly, from the otherwise fascinating and informative article about what looks to be an intriguing film, _The New York Times_ selected to highlight on Twitter that singular sentence with the falsehood underreporting the long Jewish sovereignty in the ancient land of Israel.

(full article online)









						The New York Times' Corrupted Lessons of Ancient Jewish History
					

In the latest blow to The Times' expired identity, the former Paper of Record refuses to set the facts straight on Jewish sovereignty in




					www.camera.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

The statement has not been released yet, as the government plans to iron out some final points today. But according to Hezbollah media, the statement will include the "right of resistance and the liberation of the Lebanese territories occupied by 'Israel.' " 

Yes, even though Lebanon is suffering its worst economic crisis in a century, it still wants to prioritize the right to attack Israel. Meaning, the right for Hezbollah to make unilateral decisions to attack Israel under the pretense of "liberating" territory that the UN certified as being part of Israel.

It turns out that this phrase has been part of Lebanese government policy for a while. The short-lived government of September 2020 included a nearly identical statement, no doubt at Hezbollah's insistence, in its own policy statement, although that one also "stressed the need for Lebanon to stay away from external conflicts." 

(full article online)









						New Lebanese government reportedly officially supports "resistance" against Israel
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sixties Fan said:


> while consistently using the “settlements” terminology in reference to the Jewish communities in northern Israel


*Speaking of the ongoing land theft being called “settlements”*

In the real world, if you are starting a new town or community in a country, you call it a town or community; not a “settlement”

See-----------
https://tinyurl.com/yxcjnz9f
https://tinyurl.com/5xkj3uv2

*Israeli settlements*_, or *Israeli colonies*, *are civilian communities inhabited by Israeli citizens, almost exclusively of Jewish ethnicity,* built in violation of international law on lands occupied by Israel in the 1967 Six-Day War.[6] Israeli settlements currently exist in the Palestinian territory of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and in the Syrian territory of the Golan Heights. East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights have been annexed by Israel, so residents are treated equivalently to the rest of Israel under Israeli law. Although the West Bank settlements are on land administered under Israeli military rule rather than civil law,_
Israeli settlement - Wikipedia
The Truth Will Set You Free
-


----------



## watchingfromafar

*Six-Month Report on Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem*

In the first half of 2018 (January-June) advancement of housing units continued at a
higher level than in the previous reporting period (July-December 2017). *More than
6,000 housing units in the occupied West Bank including East Jerusalem were advanced
in different stages of the planning and implementation process.* This development will,
over several years, enable potentially *more than 27,000 Israeli settlers to move to
the Occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem.*
More than 2,100 housing units (of the 6,000 units) are new plans, i.e. they have not
been introduced in the planning circuit in the years before 2018.
An important development during the reporting period was the promotion of two plans
that would establish two entirely new settlements (Zayit Ra’anan and Brosh) by
authorising illegal outposts and the establishment of a new settlement near Hebron,
north of the settlement of Kiryat Arba (based on a plan approved in 1988).
Another worrying development was the continued construction of and the approval of
funds for large scale road infrastructure projects in the occupied West Bank that
improves the connectivity of settlements to Israel.

*There are currently approximately 215,000 Israelis living in East Jerusalem while the
settler population in Area C in the occupied West Bank, excluding East Jerusalem, is
some 399,300. This brings the settler population to approximately 600,000 Israeli
settlers in 143 locations in the West Bank (132) including East Jerusalem (11)[2].
According to the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics 4.6% of the total Israeli population
resides today in the Occupied West Bank excluding East Jerusalem.*
https://www.un.org/unispal/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/EUSETTLERPT_170718.pdf

The above is four (4) years old, an update is needed
-


----------



## Sixties Fan

As Israeli civilians are butchered by Palestinian terrorists, the truth about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is also being butchered by a campaign of vicious lies. Here are ten of the most pernicious myths about the current attacks:

(full article online)









						10 deadly lies about Israel
					

Visit the post for more.




					www.politico.eu


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

watchingfromafar said:


> *Speaking of the ongoing land theft being called “settlements”*
> 
> In the real world, if you are starting a new town or community in a country, you call it a town or community; not a “settlement”
> 
> See-----------
> https://tinyurl.com/yxcjnz9f
> https://tinyurl.com/5xkj3uv2
> 
> *Israeli settlements*_, or *Israeli colonies*, *are civilian communities inhabited by Israeli citizens, almost exclusively of Jewish ethnicity,* built in violation of international law on lands occupied by Israel in the 1967 Six-Day War.[6] Israeli settlements currently exist in the Palestinian territory of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and in the Syrian territory of the Golan Heights. East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights have been annexed by Israel, so residents are treated equivalently to the rest of Israel under Israeli law. Although the West Bank settlements are on land administered under Israeli military rule rather than civil law,_
> Israeli settlement - Wikipedia
> The Truth Will Set You Free
> -






			Syrian Front
		







__





						The Expulsion of Jews from Muslim Countries
					

Between 1920 and 1970, 900,000 Jews were expelled from Arab and other Muslim countries. The 1940s were a turning point in this tragedy; of those expelled, 600,000 settled in the new state of Israel, and 300,000 in France and the United States. Today, they and their descendents form the majority...




					jcpa.org
				












						Egypt Wants Sinai Peacekeepers to Leave | CIE
					

May 16, 1967 Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser requests that the United Nations withdraw its peacekeeping troops from the Sinai, clearing an obstacle




					israeled.org
				












						Nasser Closes Straits of Tiran, Preparing the Way for the Six Day War | CIE
					

Egyptian President Nasser begins to close the Straits of Tiran. Israel launches an attack on June 5, 1967, starting the Six Day War.




					israeled.org
				




The truth Will Set You Free


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Nakba narrative is a lie. Should the UK have taught children Soviet propaganda so that they would have been better prepared to defend the UK at uni too? Yes campus is hostile. Some places have adopted a far darker and more Islamist vision. I know it is deeply uncomfortable for young Zionists, but submission is not the way forward. If we Jews do not defend ourselves – then who will defend us? Adopting the lies of our enemies onto our own platforms will only lead to self destruction.

The Nakba – as it is described by our enemies – never happened. They have taken isolated incidents, such as the disputed events of Deir Yassin or what took place in Lod – and built an entire fairytale around them. The truth of 1948 – the foundation of everything that followed – is very simple and we should never lose sight of it – nor stop teaching it to our children. The truth can sometimes be really unpopular – but it does not stop being the truth.

What follows is a list of pillars and myths. The pillars are the foundations of the self inflicted distaster that was to befall the Arab population. The myths are the lies upon which the history is being rewritten.

(full article online)









						Pillars and Myths - destroying the false narrative of the 1948 Nakba
					

The 1948 Arab defeat was a self inflicted disaster and the Nakba narrative spread by anti-Israel activists is a myth - here is the proof.



					david-collier.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

There’s an important line separating legitimate opinion that enhances the public discourse, from inflammatory rhetoric that interferes with constructive dialogue.

In our view, it’s alarming to see a Sheridan College Professor write a baseless and hateful column against Israel entitled: “The Mafia and Israel’s child killers,” which paints a grotesque and false caricature of Israel’s armed forces.

In his screed, Andrew Mitrovica, a journalism instructor in the Faculty of Animation, Arts & Design, describes the recent death of a 12-year-old Palestinian boy, and bizarrely compares the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) to the mafia, or as he describes it, a “ruthless crew of gangsters masquerading as ‘soldiers’ who populate the Israeli military.” In his eyes, the IDF is an organized crime syndicate and its soldiers, criminals. As he put it “Israel’s child-killing snipers” are no different than mafia-hitmen.

While Mitrovica attempts to portray the death of the preteen as a premeditated act of a murderous army, he conveniently omits a critical detail: that the boy was killed during violent clashes on the border between Hamas-controlled Gaza and Israel, where rioters threw explosives and attempted to breach the barrier to gain entry into Israel. Because if that detail was mentioned, readers would understand that there is a chasm of difference between a premeditated act of murder, and a casualty of war. Even more so, the fact that a 12-year-old boy was on the front lines of a violent riot on the border with Israel begs the question as to whether the boy was recruited into conflict by Hamas terrorists, as it has done with other child soldiers in the past.

Mitrovica feebly attempts to compare the Israel Defense Forces to the mafia, claiming both groups target children indiscriminately. While such nonsense may be fit to be published on Al Jazeera, it is demonstratbly false. Israel faces nonstop terror threats to the lives and safety of its civilians, who were bombarded by more than 4,000 Hamas rockets this past spring. Israel acts in an extraordinarily restrained and targeted manner when faced with such violent, hateful terrorism, whether coming from Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad or other groups. One cannot envision any other country who would tolerate nonstop terrorism, calls for its destruction, rockets fired indiscriminately at its civilian population centres, all emanating from the never-ending incitement of hate peddled by Hamas, the genocidal, homophobic and medieval Islamist death cult which rules Gaza with an iron fist.

While factual omissions like this are reason enough to dismiss Mitrovica’s column, that is the least of the problems. While reasonable voices can disagree on policies or the actions of the Israeli military, in our opinion, he goes far beyond that line. The bigger issue is that, throughout his oped, Mitrovica repeatedly dehumanizes all Israelis who serve in their country’s armed forces – which, with some exceptions, applies to the vast majority of Israeli Jews who turn 18-years-old.

(full article online)









						Sheridan College Professor Engages in Hate By Dehumanizing Israelis Who Serve(d) in IDF
					

There’s an important line separating legitimate opinion that enhances the public discourse, from inflammatory rhetoric that interferes with constructive dialogue.




					honestreporting.ca


----------



## Sixties Fan

On September 14, The Daily Beast published a piece, titled _The Courageous Men Who Smuggle Palestinians into Israel__, _that condones criminal activity and ignores the Jewish state’s precarious security situation. Cloaked as a review of a documentary about Palestinians engaging in human trafficking, the Daily Beast report blithely skips over inconvenient facts to tar Israel with the vile, baseless accusation of ethnic cleansing.

Reality Check: Israelis are not irrationally suspicious​The incessant and severe security concerns that Jerusalem must cope with are, it seems, a non-starter for Daily Beast writer Caspar Salmon, who depicts Israeli security forces as simply paranoid:



> _For example, en route with the drivers, we see very well how all Palestinian civilians are cast as suspects by Israeli forces, and how the drivers and their acolytes live in a permanent state of threat.”_


Seemingly out of nowhere and for no good reason, the Jewish state built a wall that has, according to Salmon, “_facilitated the continued annexation of Palestinian territories by Israel.” _

(full article online)









						'Courageous' Palestinian Coyotes: Daily Beast Encourages Human Trafficking Into Israel Despite Security Threats | Honest Reporting
					

On September 14, The Daily Beast published a piece, titled The Courageous Men Who Smuggle Palestinians into Israel, that condones criminal activity and




					honestreporting.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Exploiting the coronavirus lockdowns over the past year, the Palestinian Authority seized control over Tel Aroma and brought in heavy engineering equipment to pave a road over parts of the ruins, thereby causing inestimable damage. Adding insult to injury, they then had the gall to hold a formal ceremony and declare the palace, which was built by the descendants of the Maccabees, to be a “Palestinian Heritage Site.”

Indeed, it appears that the guiding hand behind much of the wanton destruction of Jewish historical and religious sites is none other than the regime of Mahmoud Abbas in Ramallah.

“The Palestinian Authority not only doesn’t preserve and protect heritage sites, but it is responsible for some 90% of the attacks on them,” says the report.

This is nothing less than a concerted campaign by the Palestinian Authority, our ostensible “peace partners,” to systematically destroy tangible evidence of the Jewish connection to the Land of Israel.

It is an assault on history and on the truth and it must be stopped.

And the phenomenon described in the report is just the tip of the iceberg. After all, the survey examined a representative sample of just 365 out of the more than 10,000 Jewish historical and archaeological sites that have been found thus far throughout Judea and Samaria, ranging from ancient synagogues to Jewish cemeteries to palaces erected by the kings of Israel.

Who knows what other treasures have been looted, pillaged and ransacked?

Sadly, successive Israeli governments have failed to devote the time, marshal the resources or even wage a diplomatic offensive to put an end to the Palestinian campaign.

And so, not so slowly and very surely, the historical sites which serve as tangible witnesses to our ancient ties to this land are being methodically and meticulously erased.

(full article online)









						The Palestinian assault on Jewish history and heritage - opinion
					

Hundreds of cherished Jewish sites in the Land of Israel which survived 2,000 years are being systematically destroyed right under our noses by the Palestinians.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abowd’s commentary during the series is itself problematic, too. While addressing the UN partition plan during the series, Abowd claims that “Palestinians who fall in what would become the Jewish state would be suddenly aliens in their own land.” Such an incendiary claim is left unchallenged. Yet, Jewish leaders in Mandate Palestine repeatedly made clear that all citizens of a future Jewish State would be equal citizens. An October 1938 report of the British “Woodhead Commission,” established to examine the possibility of partition, noted they had been given “the most emphatic assurances from the Jews that they…will spare no effort to ensure the well-being and happiness of the Arab minority within the Jewish State.” The UN report recommending partition itself supports this, referencing that the Jewish Agency (the main Jewish interlocutor at the UN) repeated those assurances, writing: “In the Jewish Home and State the Arab population…will be fully protected in all its rights on an equal basis with the Jewish citizenry.” To this day, those Israeli Arabs have equal rights. The unchallenged inclusion of the quote from Abowd misrepresents the history and dramatically deceives viewers.

Mourad’s bias comes through in the series, too. At one point, he claims the British prevented “any possible creation of political leadership among the Palestinians” during the British Mandate, notwithstanding the British themselves helped elevate[1] the Nazi-collaborator and Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini, into becoming – alongside the Husseini-dominated Arab Higher Committee – the leader of the Palestinian Arabs during that period. Mourad also falsely claimed, during Part 6, that the U.S. gave Israel “tremendous powers both in terms of financial support, but more importantly through weapons.”

During the same episode, he plays a part in slandering Israel as massacring Egyptian prisoners. Mourad’s contribution is to provide a speculative – and unchallenged – statement that “[t]he casualties was extremely disheartening and this could have fueled lots of acts of vengeance on the part of Israeli soldiers.” Neither Mourad nor the series provides any additional context or evidence.

Zogby is obviously a highly partisan figure, and that partisanship is allowed to affect the series’ narrative in an unchallenged fashion. As will be detailed in the next CAMERA article on the CNN “Jerusalem” series, Zogby inverts history by accusing the Jewish State of committing “ethnic cleansing” of the Jewish Quarter in Jerusalem, notwithstanding (and leaving unmentioned) that the Jews themselves had been ethnically cleansed from the Jewish Quarter just 19 years earlier, as their holy sites and cemeteries were desecrated and destroyed.

That CNN stretched the story of Jerusalem to focus so much on Lawrence of Arabia as much as it did is questionable enough. That of all the “experts” in the world it could bring in to talk about Lawrence of Arabia it picked one with such extremist views is beyond shocking.

While CNN includes some Israeli and Jewish commentators, what opinion and commentary the network provides beyond simple recollections or facts tends to fit the harshly one-sided treatment of the Jewish state.

For example, one of the Israelis included – Daniel Seidemann – is an activist _against_ Israeli policies. Seidemann is known for his relentless, one-sided advocacy of Arab positions and hostility toward Israel’s reunification of Jerusalem. He has, for instance, denounced the historic accords between Israel and the UAE in an article in a far-left publication.

Others even make false statements that only accentuate the CNN narrative of downplaying Jewish history. For example, at least two downplay the significance of the Temple Mount to Judaism. Simon Sebag Montefiore falsely stated that Jews are no longer connected to the Temple, while Uri Bar-Joseph erroneously stated that the Western Wall is the holiest site to Jews, while, in fact, the Temple Mount itself is the holiest. Whether their statements were clipped out of context or otherwise, the responsibility is CNN’s.

When Jewish and Israeli commentators are included, their contributions are limited to strict storytelling, with little if any opinion, speculation, or commentary allowed from other commentators throughout the series. For example, the series includes an Israeli Air Force pilot, Eelan Hight, recollecting his participation in the 1967 War, as well as Israeli Eta Blatman’s memories of fear turned to elation as the nation went from facing a massive Arab invasion force to hearing the news of the destruction of Egypt’s Air Force. When one compares this type of basic commentary to Huda Imam’s “cancerous disease,” Mourad’s speculation of Israeli vengeance, or Abowd’s excusing of Palestinian Arab rejectionism leading up to 1948, the imbalance is obvious.

(full article online)









						CNN’s Jerusalem Storytelling Tainted by Partisanship, Bigotry
					

There is, of course, no inherent problem in including the commentary of partisans or activists. They can provide viewers with context, giving them competing




					www.camera.org


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  The Right To Destroy Jewish History
SUBTOPIC:  Antiquities
※→. Sixties Fan, et al,

*BLUF*:  Theft, looting and illicit trafficking of cultural property is a crime.  It deprives people of their history and culture, it weakens social cohesion in the long term. It fuels organized crime and contributes to the financing of terrorism.  (See: _*Codes and Practical instruments*_)

CLT/CH/INS-06/25 rev 
Adopted in 1999 
_*International Code of Ethics for Dealers in Cultural Property*_



Sixties Fan said:


> Exploiting the coronavirus lockdowns over the past year, the Palestinian Authority seized control over Tel Aroma and brought in heavy engineering equipment to pave a road over parts of the ruins, thereby causing inestimable damage. Adding insult to injury, they then had the gall to hold a formal ceremony and declare the palace, which was built by the descendants of the Maccabees, to be a “Palestinian Heritage Site.”


.............................


Sixties Fan said:


> “The Palestinian Authority not only doesn’t preserve and protect heritage sites, but it is responsible for some 90% of the attacks on them,” says the report.
> 
> This is nothing less than a concerted campaign by the Palestinian Authority, our ostensible “peace partners,” to systematically destroy tangible evidence of the Jewish connection to the Land of Israel.


.........................


Sixties Fan said:


> Who knows what other treasures have been looted, pillaged and ransacked?


*(COMMENT)*

For the first time, an Arab Palestinian _(Congratulations to Hashem Abu Sham’a !!!)_ has been selected as a _Rhodes Scholar Program_.  I hope he can appreciate the protection that the Islamic Culture plays in the preservation of antiquities.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to Pollack and Norwood, Arab leaders and their Western supporters have spread the myth of “perfect harmony” and “mutual respect between Arabs and Jews” in the 14 centuries of “coexistence” before the establishment of the State of Israel. The “paradise” was shattered by the invasion of the foreign ideology of political Zionism, a movement supposedly fashioned by European Jews, with no relevance to Jews living in Muslim lands.

In practice, however, Jews in Muslim lands were treated little better than black slaves in the cotton plantations of the deep South, claim Pollack and Norwood. Both groups were seen as cowardly and obsequious.

Jews were dhimmis under the eighth-century Pact of Omar. Although permitted to practice their religion, they were not generally allowed to defend themselves. Indeed, they had to pay protection money in the form of a head tax.

Black slaves were deemed unqualified for military service. When Confederate soldiers encountered black Union Army soldiers during the Civil War, they viewed them with disgust; atrocities followed. The alleged behavior of a Jewish soldier in French uniform set off a pogrom by Algerian Muslims in Constantine in 1834.

In Arab countries generally, Jews occupied the last rung on the social pecking order.

Pollack and Norwood believe that the Koran set the template for Islam’s treatment of the “treacherous and cursed” Jews after they spurned Muhammad’s revelation. The Jewish tribes suffered a brutal defeat that involved beheading, rape, pillage and the sale of women as slaves. Both Jews and blacks have been victims of ritual lynchings.

Dhimmis had to submit to restrictions and humiliations. Raids into the Jewish quarters in North Africa resulted in frequent loss of life, as well as pillage and rape. Jews were beaten up on the false pretexts of blasphemy or drunkenness. The assailants, drawn from all ranks of society, were rarely punished. Under Shi’a Islam, “unclean” Jews could be punished if rainwater splashed from them onto Muslims.

But the Western supporters of these myths—the dhimmi-deniers—downplay inconvenient facts. They argue that attacks only took place “once in a while” or when the Jews stepped out of line (and were thus themselves to blame), and that the attacks were directed solely at Jews’ property.

The myth of  “peaceful coexistence” inspired by the golden age of medieval Muslim Spain originated in the 19th century and was believed by many in the West, including Jews. The historian Heinrich Graetz wrote that life under Islam was far better for Jews than under Christianity. The young Benjamin Disraeli claimed, “The children of Ishmael rewarded children of Israel with equal rights and privileges with themselves.”

In reality, even when the dhimmi rules were abrogated in 1856, rights had to be purchased. The Ottomans exhibited the “toleration of indifference when suitably paid to do so,” to quote the philo-Semitic clergyman James Parkes.

Colonial rule is considered by Western supporters of the myth to have disrupted this happy relationship. In practice, the colonial powers “liberated” non-Muslim minorities from their dhimmi status and granted them better education and security.

(full article online)









						When will the ‘happy dhimmi’ myth be discredited?
					

Today, any connection with slavery, however tenuous, is enough to make historical figures into non-persons. It’s time to treat the subjugation of Jews in Arab lands with the same seriousness.




					www.jns.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

( This toxic garbage is being passed as "history" of a country which never existed. Judeophobes, Antisemites and Jew Haters really love this kind of anti Jewish, anti Israel distortions of History.  Real History, which has nothing to do with the deranged hope of many Christians and Muslims to make all Jews and Israel disappear )


----------



## Sixties Fan

The New York Times issued a Yom Kippur correction for an article that had falsely stated that previous periods of Jewish sovereignty in Israel had lasted for no more than “about 70 or 80 years.”

The Times historical error was the subject of an Algemeiner column, “New York Times ‘Mangles’ Jewish History as Gordis Sees ‘Incurable’ Pathology at the Newspaper.” That article reported that the Times had initially refused a correction request from the Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting and Analysis.

“By falsely reporting that the longest Jewish rule in Israel fell in less than 100 years, The Times minimizes the historic Jewish connection to ancient Israel, eroding the legitimacy of the present Jewish state,” the director of CAMERA’s Israel office, Tamar Sternthal, wrote at the time. The article “mangles the historical record,” she had said.

The Times correction — published in print on Thursday, September 16, the Day of Atonement — reads, “An article on Sunday about the film ‘Legend of Destruction’ referred imprecisely to the time periods when Jews enjoyed sovereignty in the land in ancient times. While the first period of unified sovereignty some 3,000 years ago is believed to have lasted for less than a century, separate kingdoms remained sovereign for hundreds of years.”
------------------------------
In this case, the correction is welcome, but it’s less than fully satisfactory. Note the passive “is believed”—the Timesdoesn’t say who is doing the believing. And note the defensive restatement—“unified sovereignty”— as if attempting somehow retroactively to find some way to define or restrict terms so that earlier article can be portrayed not as outright wrong but as merely “imprecise.”

(full article online)









						New York Times Publishes Yom Kippur Correction on Jewish Sovereignty in Land of Israel
					

The headquarters of The New York Times. Photo: Wikimedia Commons. The New York Times issued a Yom Kippur correction for …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Times lets that make-believe distinction — we love Jews, it’s just Israel that bothers us — pass with no comment, consistent with the desire of many Times readers to minimize the considerable overlap between anti-Zionism and antisemitism. The Times even lends backing to the supposed distinction with its own capsule summary of Iraqi Jewish history: “The Iraqi Jews — an ancient community and an integral part of Iraqi society — were pressured by the government to give up their citizenship and property and leave Iraq after the creation of Israel in 1948.”

That falsely suggests that it was only “the creation of Israel in 1948” that turned Iraqis against the Jews. Yet the Times itself acknowledged back in 2016: “Iraqi Jews had always been the targets of sporadic attacks. But the danger soared with the rise of the Nazis’ influence in the 1930s as well as unhappiness around the Arab world with Zionism’s push for a Jewish state. A pogrom in June 1941, the Farhud, killed nearly 200 Jews in Baghdad.” The 2021 Times article makes no mention of the Farhud or of Nazi influence in Iraq.

The Farhud was before the creation of Israel, not “after.”


And the Farhud was, sadly, not the end of it. Edwin Black, who wrote a book about Iraqi Jewry, reports, “on May 9, 1947, a Baghdad mob killed a hapless Jewish man after hysterical accusations that he gave poisoned candy to Arab children.”

The word the Times chose — “pressured” — is a highly sanitized way of describing what happened to the Jews of Iraq. As Black reports, “One man was sentenced to five years’ hard labor for merely possessing a scrap of paper with an Old Testament Hebrew inscription; the paper was presumed to be a coded Zionist message. Hundreds of Jews were now arrested, forced to confess under torture, punished financially, and sentenced to long jail terms.” The wealthiest Jew in Iraq, Shafiq Ades, “was publicly hanged in Basra. His body was allowed to languish in the square for hours, to be abused by the celebrating crowds.”

Back in 2017, the Times erroneously attributed Iraqi anti-Jewish sentiment to “Israel’s defeat of its Arab neighbors in 1967,” so I suppose it’s a kind of modest progress that the Times is now falsely blaming the events of 1948 for Iraq’s turn against the Jews, rather than the events of 1967.

Even better would be for the newspaper to get the story fully accurate, and to stop blaming Israel for Iraqi Jew-hatred that predates the Jewish state.

(full article online)









						New York Times Warps History of Iraqi Jewry
					

The headquarters of The New York Times. Photo: Wikimedia Commons. A New York Times dispatch from Baghdad reports on reaction …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## the other mike

Sixties Fan said:


> And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.


Um. Not so much actually.
I see a lot of folks being accused of antisemitism, but it usually doesn't hold water.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Angelo said:


> Um. Not so much actually.
> I see a lot of folks being accused of antisemitism, but it usually doesn't hold water.


Like them, you live under a rock and cannot see above surface.


----------



## the other mike

Sixties Fan said:


> Like them, you live under a rock and cannot see above surface.


Whoever they are, you 
know exactly zero about me.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Angelo said:


> Whoever they are, you
> know exactly zero about me.


I know that you are confused because this thread is about anyone's right to rewrite and destroy Jewish History.

The threads are about discussing the subjects and not about one's biography.

Therefore, there is no interest in knowing about you but whether you  can discuss an issue or not.

Your sentence:

"I see a lot of folks being accused of antisemitism, but it usually doesn't hold water."

It does not hold water where?  In what countries?
In what situations?  Against whom?


Who rewrote the history of the Jews for you that "some people" are being accused of antisemitism , but all of them turn out to be innocent of such a thing ?

In other words, no one, not one person being accused of Antisemitism is actually an antisemite?  Who are they and how would you know that they are not antisemitic?

What is Antisemitism?


----------



## the other mike

Been to a Jewish museum lately ?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Angelo said:


> Been to a Jewish museum lately ?
> View attachment 547045


Thank you for not knowing how to discuss any issues.


----------



## the other mike

Sixties Fan said:


> Thank you for not knowing how to discuss any issues.


Not here for a discussion with you.
Just pointed out your mistaken perspective about antisemitism.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Angelo said:


> Not here for a discussion with you.
> Just pointed out your mistaken perspective about antisemitism.


What is antisemitism?

If you do not know what it is, how can you point out that people have a wrong perspective about it?


----------



## the other mike

Reread my first post here, and 
try to figure it out. 

I'm done here.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Angelo said:


> Reread my first post here, and
> try to figure it out.
> 
> I'm done here.


Am Israel Chai


----------



## rylah




----------



## Sixties Fan

A pernicious Arab lie has been published, slandering an Israeli Jewish hero.

From Iraq's Annabaa:



> On September 19, 2021, Mr. Ghassan Al-Attiyah published an exciting article on his Facebook page, under the title “Death of the Farhud Organizer.” The post was topped by a phrase for Al-Attiyah saying, “Thank you to those who provided me with this information.” And it was stated in it, that Shlomo Hillel, an Iraqi Jew, who died recently at the age of 97, was a resident of Baghdad and immigrated to Israel and later returned in disguise to carry out a very dirty mission that targeted the security of Iraqi Jewish citizens, by inciting mobs and planting bombs in synagogues to intimidate the people and push them to immigrate to Israel. Unfortunately, these actions led to casualties and entered the history of contemporary Iraq in the name of “the Jews’ Farhud”!
> 
> Al-Attiyah quotes a confession by Shlomo Hillel in his book “Operation Babel” and he says frankly that the Iraqis are innocent of this issue and that it was orchestrated by him with an entire team, including the Israeli Defense Minister in the June 1967 war, Moshe Dayan...The publication also stated that Jewish Iraqi writers, including the poet Ibrahim Obadiah and Professor Shmuel Moreh-Sami, confess in books and diaries the innocence of Iraqis from the Farhud events.






Shlomo Hillel did die this year.  That is the only accurate sentence in this article.

Hillel was a key figure in the airlift of 120,000 Jews from Iraq in Operation Ezra and Nehemiah. He did write a book about it, but he certainly never said that he was responsible for the (1941) Farhud or the bombings of Jewish areas of Baghdad in 1950-51.

No Jew was responsible. The idea that Jews were involved is an Iraqi myth (although many Iraqi Jews, disillusioned after they reached Israel and suffered discrimination, believed the myth, which helped spread it. )

Here is a good debunking of that slander:

(full article online)









						Iraqi newspaper makes up lies, claims Israeli who saved Iraqi Jewry "admitted" to bombing synagogues
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Is Islam the oldest religion? This is the not-so-innocent question a friend in South Africa put to Google a month ago. She was looking for factual information to use in an online debate regarding which religion is the older: Judaism or Islam. The friend sent me the above screenshot of the featured snippet that came up in response to her question.
The text of said snippet:


> 'Islam is the oldest religion in the world, founded by Adam, and it was reborn with Abraham and a second time with Muhammad. Between Abraham and Muhammad, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism and Christianity emerged in this order. Then Sikhism emerged after the time of Muhammad. These are the six world religions.'


Nu, so what exactly is a featured snippet and why should we care? A featured snippet is a box with a brief text answer followed by a source URL (a link). You might see a featured snippet above your search results, especially if your search is framed as a question. The purpose of the featured snippet is to preempt the need for the user to click on search results by providing a fast answer right out of the gate.
-----
The other piece of good news is that the original source of the earlier snippet for "Is Islam the oldest religion"—actually links to a refutation of that idea, hosted by, of all things, a Malaysian website. Click the link and you’ll be taken to a letter citing and rebutting the very text that Google had earlier so promptly supplied us:

(vide online)

All of which makes Google’s horribly wrong momentary mistake even worse, presented as it was, completely out of context. But let's face it: some Google algorithms suck worse than others. For us, the devil is in the details. And those details all too often tend to walk all over the Jews, their religion, and the Jewish State.

(full article online)









						Is Islam the Oldest Religion? A Featured Snippet Goes Horribly Wrong (Judean Rose)
					

A Google snippet tells searchers that Islam is the oldest religion.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Is Islam the oldest religion? This is the not-so-innocent question a friend in South Africa put to Google a month ago. She was looking for factual information to use in an online debate regarding which religion is the older: Judaism or Islam. The friend sent me the above screenshot of the featured snippet that came up in response to her question.
> The text of said snippet:
> 
> Nu, so what exactly is a featured snippet and why should we care? A featured snippet is a box with a brief text answer followed by a source URL (a link). You might see a featured snippet above your search results, especially if your search is framed as a question. The purpose of the featured snippet is to preempt the need for the user to click on search results by providing a fast answer right out of the gate.
> -----
> The other piece of good news is that the original source of the earlier snippet for "Is Islam the oldest religion"—actually links to a refutation of that idea, hosted by, of all things, a Malaysian website. Click the link and you’ll be taken to a letter citing and rebutting the very text that Google had earlier so promptly supplied us:
> 
> (vide online)
> 
> All of which makes Google’s horribly wrong momentary mistake even worse, presented as it was, completely out of context. But let's face it: some Google algorithms suck worse than others. For us, the devil is in the details. And those details all too often tend to walk all over the Jews, their religion, and the Jewish State.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Islam the Oldest Religion? A Featured Snippet Goes Horribly Wrong (Judean Rose)
> 
> 
> A Google snippet tells searchers that Islam is the oldest religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com




Too subtle for you? Muslims think anyone who followed the God of Abraham and submitted to the will of God is inherently a Muslim.

Its inclusive. Anyone who loves God is a Muslim. What's the problem?


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> Too subtle for you? Muslims think anyone who followed the God of Abraham and submitted to the will of God is inherently a Muslim.
> 
> Its inclusive. Anyone who loves God is a Muslim. What's the problem?



*That the followers of Muhammad result
in the largest illiterate group on earth!*

- with all that it implies.


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> *That the followers of Muhammad result
> in the largest illiterate group on earth!*
> 
> - with all that it implies.



You have to wonder why God blessed them .


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Too subtle for you? Muslims think anyone who followed the God of Abraham and submitted to the will of God is inherently a Muslim.
> 
> Its inclusive. Anyone who loves God is a Muslim. What's the problem?


You bought into that BS, that is the problem.

Islam is as much a Superseding ideology as Christianity is.


supersede \soo-per-SEED\ verb. 1 a : *to cause to be set aside*. b : to force out of use as inferior. 2 : to take the place or position of. 3 : to displace in favor of another.


*Supersede* is defined as to replace. An example of supersede is for a new person to take the place of the old class president.

------------
*Supersessionism*, also called *replacement theology*, is a Christian doctrine which asserts that the New Covenant through Jesus Christ supersedes the Old Covenant, which was made exclusively with the Jewish people.

In Christianity, supersessionism is a theological view on the current status of the church in relation to the Jewish people and Judaism.[1] It holds the view that the Christian Church has succeeded the Israelites as the definitive people of God[1][2][3] or it holds the view that the New Covenant has replaced or superseded the Mosaic covenant.[4] From a supersessionist's "point of view, just by continuing to exist [outside the Church], the Jews dissent".[5] This view directly contrasts with dual-covenant theology which holds that the Mosaic covenant remains valid for Jews.

Supersessionism has formed a core tenet of Christian churches for the majority of their existence. Christian traditions that have championed dual-covenant theology (including the Roman Catholic, Reformed and Methodist teachings of this doctrine) have taught that the moral law continues to stand.[6]

As a result of the Holocaust, some mainstream Christian theologians and denominations have rejected supersessionism.[7]: 2–3 

The Islamic tradition views Islam as the final and most authentic expression of Abrahamic prophetic monotheism, superseding both Jewish and Christian teachings.[8] The doctrine of _tahrif_ teaches that earlier monotheistic scriptures or their interpretations have been corrupted, while the Quran presents a pure version of the divine message that they originally contained.[9]









						Supersessionism - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



----------------


Learn the meaning of words.

Learn beyond what you have been taught under Islamic tutelage.

Learn facts and stop being a parrot.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> You bought into that BS, that is the problem.
> 
> Islam is as much a Superseding ideology as Christianity is.
> 
> 
> supersede \soo-per-SEED\ verb. 1 a : *to cause to be set aside*. b : to force out of use as inferior. 2 : to take the place or position of. 3 : to displace in favor of another.
> 
> 
> *Supersede* is defined as to replace. An example of supersede is for a new person to take the place of the old class president.
> 
> ------------
> *Supersessionism*, also called *replacement theology*, is a Christian doctrine which asserts that the New Covenant through Jesus Christ supersedes the Old Covenant, which was made exclusively with the Jewish people.
> 
> In Christianity, supersessionism is a theological view on the current status of the church in relation to the Jewish people and Judaism.[1] It holds the view that the Christian Church has succeeded the Israelites as the definitive people of God[1][2][3] or it holds the view that the New Covenant has replaced or superseded the Mosaic covenant.[4] From a supersessionist's "point of view, just by continuing to exist [outside the Church], the Jews dissent".[5] This view directly contrasts with dual-covenant theology which holds that the Mosaic covenant remains valid for Jews.
> 
> Supersessionism has formed a core tenet of Christian churches for the majority of their existence. Christian traditions that have championed dual-covenant theology (including the Roman Catholic, Reformed and Methodist teachings of this doctrine) have taught that the moral law continues to stand.[6]
> 
> As a result of the Holocaust, some mainstream Christian theologians and denominations have rejected supersessionism.[7]: 2–3
> 
> The Islamic tradition views Islam as the final and most authentic expression of Abrahamic prophetic monotheism, superseding both Jewish and Christian teachings.[8] The doctrine of _tahrif_ teaches that earlier monotheistic scriptures or their interpretations have been corrupted, while the Quran presents a pure version of the divine message that they originally contained.[9]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supersessionism - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------
> 
> 
> Learn the meaning of words.
> 
> Learn beyond what you have been taught under Islamic tutelage.
> 
> Learn facts and stop being a parrot.



Do you follow Mosaic law?


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> *Arab Quarries in Judea and Samaria aim at destroying its rich historic landscape*​



Who buys the rock from the Arab quarries?


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> You have to wonder why God blessed them .



To compensate for the disgrace of Muhammad's followers, 
resulting in the abysmal depravity of Arab illiteracy...

Out of love for Avraham Avinu A"H of course!


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> To compensate for the disgrace of Muhammad's followers,
> resulting in the abysmal depravity of Arab illiteracy...
> 
> Out of love for Avraham Avinu A"H of course!



Do you keep Mosaic law?


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> Do you keep Mosaic law?


With G-d's help I try,
open a thread if you're interested.


----------



## rylah

*Arab Quarries in Judea and Samaria aim at destroying its rich historic landscape*​
**


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> Who buys the rock from the Arab quarries?



Who said anything about selling,
they just dump the rubble of historic sites.

Look at the *Temple Mount sifting project*,
9,000 tons of precious soil were just dumped away:









						Muslim cleanup project ‘illegally disturbed, removed’ ancient soil on Temple Mt
					

Ramadan 'beautification' effort was deliberately provocative, part of bid to erase traces of pre-Muslim era heritage, claims activist-archaeologist; Israeli authorities checking




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> Who said anything about selling,
> they just dump the rubble of historic sites.
> 
> Look at the *Temple Mount sifting project*,
> 9,000 tons of precious soil were just dumped away:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslim cleanup project ‘illegally disturbed, removed’ ancient soil on Temple Mt
> 
> 
> Ramadan 'beautification' effort was deliberately provocative, part of bid to erase traces of pre-Muslim era heritage, claims activist-archaeologist; Israeli authorities checking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com



The Temple was destroyed 2000 years ago. Its not Jewish anymore.. You have all of Palestine to excavate now.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Temple was destroyed 2000 years ago. Its not Jewish anymore.. You have all of Palestine to excavate now.


According to Islam, an ideology only founded about 1400 years ago, no Buddhist, Christian, or any other culture conquered by Islam, apparently belongs to those cultures anymore.

Because even Buddist Statues, or from anywhere else have been destroyed to make sure that no one 
believes that there has anything else but Islamic history on that place:









						Here Are the Ancient Sites ISIS Has Damaged and Destroyed
					

Shocking destruction in the Syrian city of Palmyra is part of the militant group's ongoing campaign against archaeology.




					www.nationalgeographic.com
				





------------------

The Temple was always considered Jewish, even by Muslims.  Until they lost the wars from 1948 on and decided that they needed to erase Jewish history completely in order to destroy Israel.

It is not all of Palestine.  Never was.

It always was the Jewish Homeland and continue to be so, and will aways will be so.


Am Israel Chai
The People of Israel live

We are still alive and not going anywhere


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> According to Islam, an ideology only founded about 1400 years ago, no Buddhist, Christian, or any other culture conquered by Islam, apparently belongs to those cultures anymore.
> 
> Because even Buddist Statues, or from anywhere else have been destroyed to make sure that no one
> believes that there has anything else but Islamic history on that place:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here Are the Ancient Sites ISIS Has Damaged and Destroyed
> 
> 
> Shocking destruction in the Syrian city of Palmyra is part of the militant group's ongoing campaign against archaeology.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationalgeographic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------
> 
> The Temple was always considered Jewish, even by Muslims.  Until they lost the wars from 1948 on and decided that they needed to erase Jewish history completely in order to destroy Israel.
> 
> It is not all of Palestine.  Never was.
> 
> It always was the Jewish Homeland and continue to be so, and will aways will be so.
> 
> 
> Am Israel Chai
> The People of Israel live
> 
> We are still alive and not going anywhere



When Omar arrived in Jerusalem it was the city dump. Muslims didn't destroy the Temple. The Romans did.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> When Omar arrived in Jerusalem it was the city dump. Muslims didn't destroy the Temple. The Romans did.


Oh gosh, you discovered America.
The Muslims did not destroy the Temple, the Romans did.

Actually it was an Arab Muslim who allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem which had been forbidden by the Romans, and then Christians.

And with the lack of Jews to keep their capital beautiful, Romans and Christians saw to it that it would turn into a "dump".

Kind of the same dump Islam kept it afterwards.

Just look a pictures of Jerusalem between 1948 and 1967.  Oh, the reverence for the place.   The reverence for Jewish history and rights as all of a sudden, for having lost the war to Israel.......the streets were suddenly paved with Jewish tombstones, and tombstones also used for latrines.

It is the imagery of walking on dead Jews and pissing on Jews.  How Muslim appropriate.

And how did Muslims care for Jerusalem, besides planting a Mosque on top of the Temple?

Zero.

Niente.

Nothing.

Till they lost the war in 1948.


Do you have more recent tidbit lessons from your 
Madrassa to share with us?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Islamic Disregard for the Heritage of Others

The Taliban's destruction of ancient Buddhist cultural treasures in the Bamian Valley of Afghanistan during 1998 should have sounded a warning throughout the world over radical Islam's disregard for the religious heritage of others. The Taliban's extremism was partly a result of the influence of their guest, Osama bin Laden, and their Saudi Wahhabi paymasters more generally.2

Israel has witnessed a similar and more widespread pattern of actions by Islamists in support a pre-eminent, if not exclusive, Islamic claim to the Holy Land: 


In Nazareth, Muslim zealots have sought since 1997 to construct a large mosque that would dwarf the Christian Basilica of the Annunciation.3


On October 7, 2000, after constant attacks by Palestinian mobs, the Jewish holy site of Joseph's Tomb in Nablus (Shechem) was sacked and burned, and later converted into a mosque. Five days later, the ancient Shalom Al Yisrael synagogue in Jericho was sacked and burned by Palestinians.4


Rachel's Tomb at the Jerusalem-Bethlehem border has come under repeated Palestinian sniper attack. 


In April 2002, Palestinian Tanzim gunmen from Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement took over the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem and controlled the site for weeks at gunpoint.

However, the activities by the Muslim Waqf and the Israeli Muslim movement on the Temple Mount represent an unprecedented attempt to deny any legitimacy to the ancient Jewish heritage in Jerusalem.

After September 2000, the Muslim Waqf closed off the Temple Mount entirely to any archeological oversight by the Israel Antiquities Authority. Then, in order to complete new underground mosques at the site, it removed to city garbage dumps some 13,000 tons of rubble from the Temple Mount that included archeological remnants from the First and Second Temple periods. 

The intention is to turn the entire 36-acre Temple Mount compound into an exclusively Muslim site by erasing every sign, remnant, and memory of its Jewish past, including the destruction of archeological findings that are proof of this past.

In a country where construction projects may be held up for months out of concern for the preservation of antiquities, the free hand given the Muslim Waqf to destroy Jewish artifacts at Judaism's holiest site is hard to comprehend.

(full article online)





__





						The Destruction of the Temple Mount Antiquities, by Mark Ami-El
					

The Destruction of the Temple Mount Antiquities, by Mark Ami-El



					www.jcpa.org


----------



## Mindful




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Mindful

At the far edges of the Jewish world, Bukharan Jews (also sometimes referred to as Bukharian or Bokharan Jews) have made their homes in Central Asia’s vibrant cities — now located in Uzbekistan and Tajikistan — for well over a millenia. One of the world’s oldest diaspora groups, they came to resemble the Muslim Tajiks and Uzbeks amongst whom they lived, all the while maintaining connections to the wider Jewish world.









						Who Are the Bukharan Jews? | My Jewish Learning
					

At the far edges of the Jewish world, Bukharan Jews (also sometimes referred to as Bukharian or Bokharan Jews) have ...




					www.myjewishlearning.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

No Jews Here: AP’s and Reuters’ Glaring Omission​The Associated Press piece, written by Tsafrir Abayov, does not include the words ‘Jew,’ ‘Jewish’ or ‘Judaism.’ And the terms ‘Israel’ and ‘Israeli’ are only mentioned in reference to the modern country where the winery was dug up. Reuters’ report, authored by Ari Rabinovitch (editing by Jeffrey Heller and Ed Osmond) basically follows the same editorial line, albeit the article’s headline makes mention of the Holy Land.

AFP’s Ancient ‘Jewish Settlement’​The AFP item goes one step further as it uses the contemporary, politically loaded term ‘settlement’ to describe an ancient Jewish community: “The facility in Yavne, south of Tel Aviv was a Jewish settlement during biblical times and a key city after the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.”

AFP’s reporting begs the question: key city to whom?

(full article online)









						Media Erase Jewish Connection to Newly Uncovered Ancient Winery in Israel | United with Israel
					

Omitting any reference to the Jewish people’s connection to Yavne accords with the apparent overriding policy to simply ignore inconvenient facts that reaffirm the Jewish people’s ancient ties to Israel.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## danielpalos

Are Jews, Semites?  If yes; y'all have nothing to worry about.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The socialist, anti-Israel "Jewish Currents" site published a comic by JB Brager that positions itself as a sober argument against Jewish indigeneity to Israel. 

Like all good propaganda, it hand-picks the pro-Zionist arguments it wants to debunk, twists them, and then gives its own answers from within its own false framing. People who agree with the anti-Israel side think they have read a brilliant work that demolishes the Zionist arguments taken one by one. But in reality it ignores the real arguments and engages in a lot of misdirection and handwaving to make it look like it is objective.
-------

There are no references or footnotes to the idea that DNA research is useless past seven generations. Brager appears to be mixing up the popular, commercial DNA tests like 23AndMe and the more rigorous testing done by scientists. 

This is the sort of half-truth that can be seen throughout the comic. 

The comic begs for fisking, but that is not how to debunk it. 

The fact that Brager quotes Herzl as referring to "colonization" but not Herzl when he says "we aspire to our ancient land" shows that they pick and choose the arguments they want and discard the rest.

 The fact that they base so much of their argument on the idea that Jews returning to Zion is "settler colonialism" without mentioning the many arguments against it show that they are not intellectually honest. 

The fact that they  conclude their argument with this photo as proof of Zionist racism while deliberately erasing the cover of the book to show that the Arab woman had snatched the angry man's Psalms seconds before proves Brager's mendacity.









But in the end there are much more obvious proofs that Brager's theses are wrong to begin with.

The idea that Jews are a people and a nation is not a new Zionist idea. On the contrary - the idea that Jews are only a religion and not more is a brand new anti-Zionist idea, created specifically to disconnect Jews from their ancient homeland. The words "Hebrew nation" and "Jewish nation" in describing contemporary Jews can be seen hundreds of times in pre-Zionist literature - both from Jews and non-Jews.

(full article online)









						That "Jewish Currents" comic - anti-Israel propaganda filled with false history and bigotry
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  The Right To Destroy Jewish History
SUBTOPIC:  
※  danielpalos at al,

Meanings:  Concise Oxford American Dictionary Copyright © 2006 by Oxford University Press, Inc.

*Arab* /'arab/ n. 1 a member of a Semitic people, originally from the Arabian peninsula and neighboring territories, inhabiting much of the Middle East and North Africa.​*Arabic* /'arabik/ n. the Semitic language of the Arabs, spoken by some 150 million people throughout the Middle East and North Africa.​*Hebrew* /'hebrbo/ n.  2 the Semitic language of this people, in its ancient or modern form.​ady. 1 of the Hebrews or the Jews. 2 of or in Hebrew.​*Semitic* /se'mitik/ ady. 1 relating to or denoting a family of languages that includes Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic and certain ancient languages such as Phoenician and Akkadian, constituting the main subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic family.​2 of or relating to the peoples who speak these languages, esp. Hebrew and Arabic.​


danielpalos said:


> Are Jews, Semites?  If yes; y'all have nothing to worry about.


*(COMMENT)*

I suppose that by most accepted definitions, the answer would be yes.








_Most Respectfully,_
R


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## Sixties Fan

The pro-Palestinian propaganda, factual errors and the blurring of fact with mere claims in a recent Belfast Telegraph article would make Guardian editors cringe. The deceit in the piece (“How Palestine changed my life: NI teacher Charlotte Carson who stood in front of Israeli tanks to run for Assembly”, Oct. 13) begins in the first few sentences:



> Belfast woman who risked her life acting as a human shield to prevent Israeli soldiers shooting civilians and demolishing Palestinian homes is to run as an SDLP candidate in the Assembly election. Charlotte Carson stood in front of bulldozers and accompanied women and children past army checkpoints in Gaza and the West Bank
> Her friend Rachel Corrie, an American student, was crushed to death by an Israeli Defence Force armoured bulldozer in 2003.


As is evident further into the article, it’s merely the (completely unsubstantiated) claim by Charlotte Carson that, while volunteering with a radical anti-Israel group during the height of the 2nd Intifada, she was preventing Israeli soldiers from “shooting civilians”. The fact that the Belfast Telegraph journalist, Suzanne Breene, failed to make this distinction is a violation of the accuracy clause’s demand that the press must “distinguish clearly between comment, conjecture and fact”.

The journalist also fails to note that an Israeli court ruled, in response to a lawsuit by Rachel Corrie’s parents, the her tragic death was an accident, not the result of criminal behavior by the driver of the bulldozer.

It continues:



> After two years as a volunteer in the International Solidarity Movement (ISM), which was blacklisted by the Israeli authorities, Ms Carson was arrested and deported from the occupied Palestinian territories.


The journalist makes no effort to explain that ISM was “blacklisted” by Israel because it is openly pro-terrorism, and has directly supported terrorist organisations by, among other activities, serving as human shields for terrorist operatives, and even sheltering Palestinian Islamic Jihad operatives involved in suicide bombing attacks.

Also unmentioned by the article is the reason why Carson was arrested and deported: she reportedly disrupted IDF soldiers operating against Palestinians who threw Molotov cocktails at them, preventing the terrorists’ detention. According to the
soldiers, she also exposed a previous IDF ambush by shining a flashlight on them, jeopardizing the soldiers’ lives.

(full article online)









						Belfast Telegraph promotes ISM lies about IDF soldiers "shooting children"
					

The pro-Palestinian propaganda, factual errors and the blurring of fact with mere claims in a recent Belfast Telegraph article would make Guardian editors cring




					camera-uk.org


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## Sixties Fan

The new Academy Museum of Motion Pictures in Los Angeles neglects Hollywood’s Jewish founders
					

The new Academy Museum of Motion Pictures in Los Angeles neglects Hollywood's Jewish founders




					forward.com


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## Sixties Fan

Two days ago, activist JB Brager of the deceptively-named ‘Jewish Voice for Peace’ published an illustrated analysis of Zionism as an indigenous rights cause in Jewish Currents.

Their picture book (a fitting medium, I suppose) is not so much an analysis as it is a puerile, recalcitrant temper tantrum. If nothing else, it is as stark an example of Jewish self-hatred as anything I could imagine from a purported Jewish outlet.

For the sake of digestibility, I’ll address everything in a piecemeal fashion.

On the meaning of indigenous –

 From the very first panel, we see the authors attempting to spin Jewish discourse on indigeneity into a blood and soil argument — a calculated bid at misrepresenting Zionism as the Jewish version of German Volkisch nationalism. Attempting to place us on par with our worst abusers, the Nazis, appears to be a common theme for antisemites.

To wit, the authors deliberately pervert the meaning of indigeneity, arguing that (at least in our case) it is about nothing more than blood.

While common ancestry with the land’s original inhabitants is certainly part of the criteria, it is only one part. Indigeneity is first and foremost about ethnogenesis, or ‘where a people became a people’.

Jews do not, and never have, claimed indigeneity to Israel solely on the basis of blood. We claim it because we originated as an ethnic group on that land. Virtually everything about us, from our language and alphabet to our holidays and laws and core culture, is specific to the land of Israel/Palestine.

It is true that ethnic Jews — who comprise roughly 99% of global Jewry — trace the bulk of their genetic ancestry to the Levant (specifically to Bronze Age Canaanites, from whom the Jews and Samaritans emerged as subsets), but this alone does not qualify a population for indigenous status. Ethnogenesis, core culture, national language, collective spiritual ties, etc are equally important, if not more so. Indigenous status is a package deal.

And as the authors themselves limply admit, Jews do meet all of the established criteria for indigenous status in Israel.

(full article online)









						On The Theatrics Of Inversion: How Indigenous People Became ‘Settlers’
					

From the blog of Dani Ishai Behan at The Times of Israel




					blogs.timesofisrael.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

From MEMRI, a Saudi cartoon that shows the Quranic story of Jews turning into apes and pigs (without the pig part):




> _On October 9, 2021, an animated video for children depicting a Quranic story about Jews being transformed into apes was uploaded to the Ibtikar Media channel on YouTube. The narrator told the story about a group of Jews in a seaside village who violated Allah's commandment to keep the Sabbath by casting fishing nets on Friday and gathering fish on Sunday. The narrator said that the group of Jews who did this were punished by being transformed into apes. Ibtikar Media is a Saudi YouTube channel._
> 
> Narrator: "There used to be a Jewish village on the seashore. One of Allah's laws that He laid down for them was that He forbade them from fishing on the Sabbath, in order to devote themselves to worship. Allah tested them by sending a lot of fish only on the Sabbath. So they employed a trick. They would cast their nets on Friday, the fish would get trapped in the nets on Saturday, and they would collect them on Sunday.
> 
> "The [Jewish villagers] were divided into three groups. One group defied Allah's commandment. They would fish [on the Sabbath] by employing trickery and deception. Another group abided by Allah's commandment, and never defied Him. They would warn the people about Allah's wrath and His punishment, and would forbid them from doing what they were doing. The third group would oppose the people who forbade these acts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "When the sinners did not heed the words of advice, Allah's punishment came upon them at night. The group that commanded good were spared the punishment. The fate of the third group was not mentioned. The punishment of the sinners was that they were transformed into apes. It is said that the people who forbade evil wondered why the sinners did not appear, as was their habit. So they went to [the sinners, and saw that they had been transformed into apes. Each ape recognized his own family, but people did not recognize their relatives who had been transformed into apes. The people [from the first group] asked: 'Did we not warn you about Allah's wrath?' A while later, the sinners who had been transformed into apes died, leaving no descendants."



There's a punchline to this famous story that the Muslims don't know: 

According to Jewish law, the Jews who set the nets did nothing wrong. 

Jewish law says that one may not set a trap on the Sabbath but one may set up a trap beforehand.

Mohammed knew a lot of Jewish stories and legends that he put into the Quran. but he wasn't very well versed in Jewish law.

(full article online)









						Saudi cartoon shows Quranic story of how Jews were transformed into monkeys
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

What the Guardian doesn’t say in the article (“As important as the Taj Mahal? The Palestinian refugee camp seeking Unesco world heritage status”, Oct. 14) is that DAAR supports the unlimited ‘right of return’ for millions of the descendants of the original Palestinian refugees.

After providing more information on the exhibit, Wainwright attempts to provide background on the ‘refugee camp’:



> Established in 1949 to house more than 3,000 Palestinians expelled from their villages by Jewish militias in the Arab-Israeli war, Dheisheh has since swelled to accommodate 15,000 people. It began as a tent encampment, laid out on a military grid across an undulating stretch of land leased to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) by the Jordanian government (which still technically owns the land).


First, as even Palestinian officials have acknowledged, Jews still “technically own the land”, as Dheisheh was built on JNF land lost during the 1948 War. Further, it’s not accurate that the 3,000 original inhabitants of the camp had all been “expelled”, as the Guardian claims.  For instance, many of the original inhabitants came from the village of Beit Jibrin, 20 km northwest of Hebron.  As even anti-Israel sources acknowledge, they fled (but weren’t expelled) during fighting between the Haganah and Egyptian forces.

Wainwright continues:



> Dheisheh is the product of being forced to live in perpetual limbo, with the eternal hope of one day leaving, creating what Petti and Hilal call a state of “permanent temporariness”. The neighbourhoods are still loosely arranged according to the villages where the refugees came from, and the families cling to the dream of returning home to their ancestral lands…
> …
> “There is a widespread feeling among Palestinian refugees that if you consider the camp your home, you will jeopardise the right of return,” says [a resident]


This is a good illustration of the lies and egregious double standards feed the entire ‘refugee’ narrative. Palestinians, unlike Jewish refugees from Arab lands, and, in fact, every other refugee group in the world, are granted refugee status in perpetuity to each subsequent generation, regardless of whether they already enjoy full citizenship in another country, as millions do.

Also, Dheisheh is located within Bethlehem, a city (within Area A of the West Bank) under complete control of the Palestinian Authority.  There’s no reason, other than to cynically perpetuate the ‘refugee’ issue, why PA officials couldn’t expel UNRWA, incorporate the camp into Bethlehem’s municipal boundaries and govern the residents exactly as they do the rest of the city.

(full article online)









						The Guardian, Dheisheh and the eternal 'refugee'
					

An article in the Guardian by Oliver Wainwright, the outlet's architecture critic, reports on a new exhibition at the Mosaic Rooms in London asserting that Dhe




					camera-uk.org


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> No Jews Here: AP’s and Reuters’ Glaring Omission​The Associated Press piece, written by Tsafrir Abayov, does not include the words ‘Jew,’ ‘Jewish’ or ‘Judaism.’ And the terms ‘Israel’ and ‘Israeli’ are only mentioned in reference to the modern country where the winery was dug up. Reuters’ report, authored by Ari Rabinovitch (editing by Jeffrey Heller and Ed Osmond) basically follows the same editorial line, albeit the article’s headline makes mention of the Holy Land.
> 
> AFP’s Ancient ‘Jewish Settlement’​The AFP item goes one step further as it uses the contemporary, politically loaded term ‘settlement’ to describe an ancient Jewish community: “The facility in Yavne, south of Tel Aviv was a Jewish settlement during biblical times and a key city after the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.”
> 
> AFP’s reporting begs the question: key city to whom?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Media Erase Jewish Connection to Newly Uncovered Ancient Winery in Israel | United with Israel
> 
> 
> Omitting any reference to the Jewish people’s connection to Yavne accords with the apparent overriding policy to simply ignore inconvenient facts that reaffirm the Jewish people’s ancient ties to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unitedwithisrael.org



It was also a Roman city.










						Yavne: A Jewish Case for Equality in Israel-Palestine
					

The two-state solution is dead. It’s time for liberal Zionists to abandon Jewish–Palestinian separation and embrace equality.




					jewishcurrents.org
				




But questioning Israel’s existence as a Jewish state is a different order of offense—akin to spitting in the face of people I love and betraying institutions that give my life meaning and joy. Besides, Jewish statehood has long been precious to me, too. So I’ve respected certain red lines.

Unfortunately, reality has not. With each passing year, it has become clearer that Jewish statehood includes permanent Israeli control of the West Bank. With each new election, irrespective of which parties enter the government, Israel has continued subsidizing Jewish settlement in a territory in which Palestinians lack citizenship, due process, free movement, and the right to vote for the government that dominates their lives. 

Israel has built highways for those Jewish settlers so they can travel easily across the Green Line—which rarely appears on Israeli maps—while their Palestinian neighbors languish at checkpoints. The West Bank is home to one of Israel’s most powerful politicians, two of its supreme court justices, and its newest medical school.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> It was also a Roman city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yavne: A Jewish Case for Equality in Israel-Palestine
> 
> 
> The two-state solution is dead. It’s time for liberal Zionists to abandon Jewish–Palestinian separation and embrace equality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jewishcurrents.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But questioning Israel’s existence as a Jewish state is a different order of offense—akin to spitting in the face of people I love and betraying institutions that give my life meaning and joy. Besides, Jewish statehood has long been precious to me, too. So I’ve respected certain red lines.
> 
> Unfortunately, reality has not. With each passing year, it has become clearer that Jewish statehood includes permanent Israeli control of the West Bank. With each new election, irrespective of which parties enter the government, Israel has continued subsidizing Jewish settlement in a territory in which Palestinians lack citizenship, due process, free movement, and the right to vote for the government that dominates their lives.
> 
> Israel has built highways for those Jewish settlers so they can travel easily across the Green Line—which rarely appears on Israeli maps—while their Palestinian neighbors languish at checkpoints. The West Bank is home to one of Israel’s most powerful politicians, two of its supreme court justices, and its newest medical school.


When looking to attack Israel and Jews, please look for people who are not biased and 100% against Israel's existence, as Mr. Beinart is.  It is not because he is Jewish that his anti Israel's existence  activism is right.
It is not.  He has the wrong information, as do you.
----
With all his soothing words about equality and blissful coexistence, Peter Beinart is calling for the elimination of the Jewish state itself. His contortions to argue that Zionism does not require an independent Jewish state are transparently false and a tactic to rationalize the dismantling of a sovereign Israel.

The fact that his notion of Palestinians and Israelis living in peace in one state is belied by the history of the Middle East is almost beside the point. Where else on earth would the idea of an independent sovereign state disappearing from the map be acceptable except in the case of Israel?

Alone among states in the United Nations, Israel’s existence is put in question without consequences, sometimes in blatant and obviously hostile ways, such as by Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas, sometimes by those like Mr. Beinart who argue in softer terms, framing their position in terms of human rights.

There’s not much difference in the end. Both violate every norm regarding sovereignty of a nation. In the final analysis, such calls are themselves anti-Semitic, or at the very least, as in the case of Mr. Beinart, play into the hands of the anti-Semites.

It is time to focus on getting the parties back to negotiations. Israel needs to make clear it is open to a two-state solution that would bring security, justice and dignity to Israelis and Palestinians. And the Palestinians must move from their longstanding rejectionism that has hurt them so badly and has brought us to this day.









						Dissolve the Jewish State? Peter Beinart is Wrong | ADL
					






					www.adl.org


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> It was also a Roman city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yavne: A Jewish Case for Equality in Israel-Palestine
> 
> 
> The two-state solution is dead. It’s time for liberal Zionists to abandon Jewish–Palestinian separation and embrace equality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jewishcurrents.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But questioning Israel’s existence as a Jewish state is a different order of offense—akin to spitting in the face of people I love and betraying institutions that give my life meaning and joy. Besides, Jewish statehood has long been precious to me, too. So I’ve respected certain red lines.
> 
> Unfortunately, reality has not. With each passing year, it has become clearer that Jewish statehood includes permanent Israeli control of the West Bank. With each new election, irrespective of which parties enter the government, Israel has continued subsidizing Jewish settlement in a territory in which Palestinians lack citizenship, due process, free movement, and the right to vote for the government that dominates their lives.
> 
> Israel has built highways for those Jewish settlers so they can travel easily across the Green Line—which rarely appears on Israeli maps—while their Palestinian neighbors languish at checkpoints. The West Bank is home to one of Israel’s most powerful politicians, two of its supreme court justices, and its newest medical school.


Was the city built by the Romans?  I would guess not, for you to infer that it was a "Roman City".


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## danielpalos

...is this just a Semitic thing?


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## Aletheia4u

RoccoR said:


> RE: The Right To Destroy Jewish History
> SUBTOPIC: Arranged Marriages
> ⁜→ Roudy, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*: I'm not sure we are using the same concept in the "term" marriage.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As I understand it the, in the early half of the first millenium, arranged marriages can happen very early in life.  Families can form an alliance, based on a future commitment, by pledging a marriage very early in the life of children.
> 
> From ancient times, right up through the 18th century, families were related through marriage commitments arranged by parents.  The commitment may not be completed for another decade, but the promise of marriage between the children of families was important factor in political or economic/commercial terms.  Today's practice of wedding notices and announcements of engagements and marriages dates back to those times.
> 
> These types of arrangements have no real immoral intent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


 All marriages during Biblical times were arranged by the parents. And some countries still practice it. 

 But the Hebrews' marriages were arranged by God when they were under the Laws.

 Like in the story of Jacob. Jacob's daughter Dinah was raped by a Canaanite. And so Jacob arranged for them to be married so she wouldn't be considered defiled.  But God didn't allow that to happen. 



 But since God left them. That they started to choose mates for their children. But now since those who have accepted Him as their Lord. Whomever marriages He didn't arrange while He wasn't present. That the couples are not obligated to stay with one another. That it is the choice of the unbeliever to stay or not. 

 But marriages God arranges, that they cannot separate. 


_*Matthew 19:6*_
*So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”*

*1 Corinthians 7:14*
*For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. *


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## Sixties Fan

Palestinian media on Saturday quoted their "Jerusalem Governorate" as condemning the rebuilding of the iconic Tiferet Yisrael synagogue.

Their claims are ludicrous once you know that it the land was purchased by Jews in the 1840s, completed in 1872, destroyed by the Jordanians in 1948. The Jerusalem government approved the rebuilding in 2012, but perhaps some new stage in the rebuilding just started.



> The statement said: "These racist settlement measures [aim to] to prove its entitlement to Jerusalem, through falsification of history, obliteration of facts, distortion of the Islamic urban landscape in the occupied capital, and the creation of a Hebrew model in it.
> 
> The statement stressed that the city of Jerusalem is Islamic in face, with an Arab identity, and the occupation will not rob it of this fact, no matter how intrusive it is in criminality by all means and methods.



As far as the Arab fear of Jewish buildings dominating the skyline, here is the Jewish Quarter before 1948, with both the Hurva and Tiferet Yisrael domes clearly visible.








(full article online)









						Palestinians say Tiferet Yisrael synagogue rebuilding is illegitimate
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

Barakat, and Amnesty, are saying that this is a religious conflict, that Jews are killing Muslims because of their religion, and that they stop Muslims from worshipping in their holy place because they are Muslims.

This is slander and very close to antisemitism. Israel doesn't target anyone because they are Muslim, and Israel allows tens of thousands of Muslims to visit the holiest Jewish place every day of the week - while Jews themselves were not allowed to pray there by law, and certainly would have been dragged away and arrested at the time of the story if they tried. 

The only religious discrimination happening in the region is the story of how nearly all Christians have been forced to leave by Muslim intolerance - just as virtually all Jews have already been ethnically cleansed by the Muslimsdecades ago.  Muslims who become atheists or convert to Christianity are persecuted. There is no shortage of examples of religious intolerance in the Middle East and worldwide.

Yet Amnesty asked a Palestinian writer to teach the concept of freedom of religion, specifically to paint the most religiously tolerant people in the Middle East as the most intolerant.

Given that the book is written for tweens and early teens, the stories - while well written - generally have no nuance; there are good people and bad people with no shades of grey. One story is about how a clique of boys are led by a sadistic bully and it takes an East German immigrant to stand up to him; another is about a boy who discovers a child labor slavery factory in his town. Another is a science fiction story about a future where microchips are implanted in children's brains so their thoughts can be monitored, ostensibly for national security reasons. 

Within the book, the only bad people mentioned who have any national or religious identity are Israeli Jews.

Amnesty is proud that they have an entire program of teaching children about human rights concepts through fiction. They write, "Many children’s novels and even picture books possess great power to open up new worlds and inspire a capacity for empathy. Being able to empathize makes it easier to be kind, tolerant, and willing to consider other points of view." But there is no empathy in this book towards Jews or Israelis - they are only framed as oppressors who are taking away freedoms. 

A book meant to teach empathy succeeds in subtly but unmistakably teaching hate.

Astoundingly, two of the fourteen stories in a book about worldwide human rights are centered on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The other story, "No Trumpets Needed," is more balanced than "Uncle Meena"- a hopeful if extraordinarily naive tale of how a Palestinian kid who is struck mute when his (obviously innocent) brother was killed by Israelis still works to send a message of peace across the security barrier with kites, and the Israeli settlers respond back in kind. (In fact, grassroots peace initiatives are virtually all initiated by the Israeli side; the Palestinians regard them as "normalization" and actively work against them.) This story does mention Palestinian terror in passing but it doesn't say the real reason why the barrier exists. The author blithely and falsely says that it is to "separate Arab from Jew" but not to protect Israelis from being blown up. The only link to the Biblical past of the region is ascribed to the mute Palestinian child, who is a shepherd.  Even in this far less offensive story, the only people who are humanized are the Palestinians; the Jews remain an abstraction. 

When viewed as a whole, this book by Amnesty promotes the lies that Jews have no rights to the land, Jews have no history in the land, Jews are anti-Muslim, Jews kill Palestinians for no apparent reason beyond hating Muslims, Palestinians have no freedom because of Israel, and Palestinians are saintly victims. 

The very Universal Declaration of Human Rights that forms the theme of the book was written specifically in response to the Holocaust, and now is being used as a tool to teach children to hate anyone who supports a tiny place on Earth where Jews can live fully as Jews in their own ancestral land.

Children who read this book are not sophisticated enough to understand how they are being manipulated. I can easily imagine that rabid anti-Israel Jews in college today first learned about the conflict from this book. 

Giving children anti-Israel propaganda in their school reading is immoral, and Amnesty should be taken to task for inciting kids into hating Israel.

(full article online)









						Amnesty's anti-Israel story "Uncle Meena," aimed at kids, is even worse than reported
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

A map previously published in Deutsche Welle accurately shows Areas A and B versus Area C of the West Bank. (Screenshot at left.)

In a separate error, the article misleadingly stated as fact: “The settlements are considered illegal under international law.”

Yet, there are experts in international law who dispute this view, among them Prof. Julius Stone and former U.S. Undersecretary of State Eugene Rostow. In addition, then Secretary of State Mike Pompeo acknowledged in 2019 that “The establishment of Israeli civilian settlements in the West Bank is not _per se_ inconsistent with international law,” reverting to a position earlier voiced by President Reagan. Reagan had said: “As to the West Bank, I believe the settlements there — I disagreed when the previous Administration referred to them as illegal, they’re not illegal,” “Excerpts From Interview With President Reagan Conducted by Five Reporters,” _New York Times_, Feb. 3, 1981.)

_Newsweek _previously corrected this identical error.

In response to communication from CAMERA, Deutsche Welle promptly corrected both points. Regarding control of the West Bank, the amended text now accurately reports:



> Israel exercises partial administrative control over the territory, where some 2 million Palestinians live, since the Six Day War of 1967.


In addition, on the question of the settlements’ legality, the corrected story currently states:



> The United Nations and most member states, including Germany, consider the settlements illegal and a violation of international law.


In addition, a correction appended to the bottom of the article commendably alerts readers to the changes:



> _This text was modified on October 25 to more precisely reflect attitudes of the international community and corrected to note that Israel exercises only partial administrative control over the territory._



(full article online)









						Deutsche Welle Corrects on West Bank Rule, Settlements Legality
					

CAMERA prompts corrections after Deutsche Welle misreported that Israel has full administrative control of the West Bank and that Israeli settlements are illegal under




					www.camera.org


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## Sixties Fan

AFP Corrects: Egypt Also Borders Gaza
					

AFP corrects after erroneously reporting that Gaza 'is fenced in on three sides by Israel.' In fact, Egypt sits on one of the three




					www.camera.org


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## Mindful

We Remember: Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks passed away one year ago today.
“To be a Jew, now as in the days of Moses, is to hear the call of those who came before us and know that we are the guardians of their story.”
“To be a Jew [is to] inherit a faith from those who came before us, to live it and to hand it on to those who will come after us. To be a Jew is to be a link in the chains of the generations.”
“If we are Jews it is because our ancestors were Jews and because they braved much and sacrificed more to ensure that their children would be Jews. Can we do less?”

- Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks
May his memory be a blessing.

The Rabbi Sacks Legacy Trust


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## Mindful

This 13-minute film introduces the history of antisemitism from its origins in the days of the early Christian church until the era of the Holocaust in the mid-20th century. It raises questions about why Jews have been targeted throughout history and how antisemitism offered fertile ground to the Nazis.









						Why the Jews: History of Antisemitism
					

This 13-minute film explains the history of antisemitism from the days of the early Christian church until the 20th century.




					www.ushmm.org


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## Sixties Fan

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					1.bp.blogspot.com
				





More interesting, perhaps, is the fact that our storefront photo of an admittedly much older building is from 1963. Israel had already become a state. Yasser Arafat had not yet begun to talk _narishkeit_ about Arabs being “Palestinians.” So there were no protests, riots, or talk of appropriation. What's clear is that “Palestine” the word, as late as 1963, still held fond associations for most kosher Jews. (Also, it took time for the new/old name “Israel,” to kick in.)
Indeed we did finally get up the courage, in 1948, to call Palestine by its real name: Israel. The “new” name just confirmed what everyone had already known. That it was Jewish land. That it was ours.
The _Times_ got it as far back as September 1, 1929 and the Hebron Massacre. The Gray Lady called it as it was: the Arabs were invading Palestine (when Yasser Arafat was naught but a puling Cairo infant).

Even as late as 1948, the world still knew what was what, and who was who. One people was native, the other a belligerent outsider. The _AP_ knew it, and the _Boston Evening Globe_repeated it. So did the _Raleigh Times_ (and a slew of others, too numerous to mention).


The logic is simple, the conclusion inevitable: the Arabs invaded Palestine, they are the outsiders who forced their way in.
They invaded Palestine because it wasn’t theirs.
And they wanted it.

(full article online)









						When Palestine Was Kosher (Judean Rose)
					

An examination of the meaning of "Palestine" in everyday language.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Barakat, and Amnesty, are saying that this is a religious conflict, that Jews are killing Muslims because of their religion, and that they stop Muslims from worshipping in their holy place because they are Muslims.
> 
> This is slander and very close to antisemitism. Israel doesn't target anyone because they are Muslim, and Israel allows tens of thousands of Muslims to visit the holiest Jewish place every day of the week - while Jews themselves were not allowed to pray there by law, and certainly would have been dragged away and arrested at the time of the story if they tried.
> 
> The only religious discrimination happening in the region is the story of how nearly all Christians have been forced to leave by Muslim intolerance - just as virtually all Jews have already been ethnically cleansed by the Muslimsdecades ago.  Muslims who become atheists or convert to Christianity are persecuted. There is no shortage of examples of religious intolerance in the Middle East and worldwide.
> 
> Yet Amnesty asked a Palestinian writer to teach the concept of freedom of religion, specifically to paint the most religiously tolerant people in the Middle East as the most intolerant.
> 
> Given that the book is written for tweens and early teens, the stories - while well written - generally have no nuance; there are good people and bad people with no shades of grey. One story is about how a clique of boys are led by a sadistic bully and it takes an East German immigrant to stand up to him; another is about a boy who discovers a child labor slavery factory in his town. Another is a science fiction story about a future where microchips are implanted in children's brains so their thoughts can be monitored, ostensibly for national security reasons.
> 
> Within the book, the only bad people mentioned who have any national or religious identity are Israeli Jews.
> 
> Amnesty is proud that they have an entire program of teaching children about human rights concepts through fiction. They write, "Many children’s novels and even picture books possess great power to open up new worlds and inspire a capacity for empathy. Being able to empathize makes it easier to be kind, tolerant, and willing to consider other points of view." But there is no empathy in this book towards Jews or Israelis - they are only framed as oppressors who are taking away freedoms.
> 
> A book meant to teach empathy succeeds in subtly but unmistakably teaching hate.
> 
> Astoundingly, two of the fourteen stories in a book about worldwide human rights are centered on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The other story, "No Trumpets Needed," is more balanced than "Uncle Meena"- a hopeful if extraordinarily naive tale of how a Palestinian kid who is struck mute when his (obviously innocent) brother was killed by Israelis still works to send a message of peace across the security barrier with kites, and the Israeli settlers respond back in kind. (In fact, grassroots peace initiatives are virtually all initiated by the Israeli side; the Palestinians regard them as "normalization" and actively work against them.) This story does mention Palestinian terror in passing but it doesn't say the real reason why the barrier exists. The author blithely and falsely says that it is to "separate Arab from Jew" but not to protect Israelis from being blown up. The only link to the Biblical past of the region is ascribed to the mute Palestinian child, who is a shepherd.  Even in this far less offensive story, the only people who are humanized are the Palestinians; the Jews remain an abstraction.
> 
> When viewed as a whole, this book by Amnesty promotes the lies that Jews have no rights to the land, Jews have no history in the land, Jews are anti-Muslim, Jews kill Palestinians for no apparent reason beyond hating Muslims, Palestinians have no freedom because of Israel, and Palestinians are saintly victims.
> 
> The very Universal Declaration of Human Rights that forms the theme of the book was written specifically in response to the Holocaust, and now is being used as a tool to teach children to hate anyone who supports a tiny place on Earth where Jews can live fully as Jews in their own ancestral land.
> 
> Children who read this book are not sophisticated enough to understand how they are being manipulated. I can easily imagine that rabid anti-Israel Jews in college today first learned about the conflict from this book.
> 
> Giving children anti-Israel propaganda in their school reading is immoral, and Amnesty should be taken to task for inciting kids into hating Israel.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amnesty's anti-Israel story "Uncle Meena," aimed at kids, is even worse than reported
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com



The Temple was destroyed 2000 years ago.. What holy place are the Jews allowing Palestinians to worship?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


>



What does Farrakhan have to do with it? He invented his own religion.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Temple was destroyed 2000 years ago.. What holy place are the Jews allowing Palestinians to worship?





surada said:


> What does Farrakhan have to do with it? He invented his own religion.


Suffering from lack of knowledge again?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Suffering from lack of knowledge again?



What holy place are you speaking of?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.bp.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More interesting, perhaps, is the fact that our storefront photo of an admittedly much older building is from 1963. Israel had already become a state. Yasser Arafat had not yet begun to talk _narishkeit_ about Arabs being “Palestinians.” So there were no protests, riots, or talk of appropriation. What's clear is that “Palestine” the word, as late as 1963, still held fond associations for most kosher Jews. (Also, it took time for the new/old name “Israel,” to kick in.)
> Indeed we did finally get up the courage, in 1948, to call Palestine by its real name: Israel. The “new” name just confirmed what everyone had already known. That it was Jewish land. That it was ours.
> The _Times_ got it as far back as September 1, 1929 and the Hebron Massacre. The Gray Lady called it as it was: the Arabs were invading Palestine (when Yasser Arafat was naught but a puling Cairo infant).
> 
> Even as late as 1948, the world still knew what was what, and who was who. One people was native, the other a belligerent outsider. The _AP_ knew it, and the _Boston Evening Globe_repeated it. So did the _Raleigh Times_ (and a slew of others, too numerous to mention).
> 
> 
> The logic is simple, the conclusion inevitable: the Arabs invaded Palestine, they are the outsiders who forced their way in.
> They invaded Palestine because it wasn’t theirs.
> And they wanted it.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Palestine Was Kosher (Judean Rose)
> 
> 
> An examination of the meaning of "Palestine" in everyday language.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com




They were called Palestinians when I was a kid in the early 1950s. Many of them worked in Arabia. Don't lie to yourself.. Read the Palestine Papers, Avalon Project, Yale.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> They were called Palestinians when I was a kid in the early 1950s. Many of them worked in Arabia. Don't lie to yourself.. Read the Palestine Papers, Avalon Project, Yale.


Everyone under the Mandate of Palestine, when you were a kid, was called Palestinian.

Arafat is the one who decided to adopt the nationality of Palestinians, which the Jews did not want even for the Mandate for their homeland. In 1963.


surada said:


> What holy place are you speaking of?


I responded to a different post


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Temple was destroyed 2000 years ago.. What holy place are the Jews allowing Palestinians to worship?











						Israel prepares for wave of Muslim tourists
					

With the signing of the Abraham Accords and the opening of Emirati, Bahraini and Moroccan diplomatic missions, Israel is now preparing for an unprecedented wave of Muslim tourists.




					www.al-monitor.com
				





There are no Muslim holy places which Palestinian Muslims or Christians are not allowed to visit and worship


----------



## Sixties Fan

*MYTH*

_“From 1948 through 1967, Jordan ensured freedom of worship for all religions in Jerusalem.”_

*FACT*

From 1948-67, Jerusalem was divided between Israel and Jordan. Israel made western Jerusalem its capital; Jordanoccupied the eastern section. Because Jordan maintained a state of war with Israel, the city became, in essence, two armed camps, replete with concrete walls and bunkers, barbed-wire fences, minefields and other military fortifications.

Under paragraph eight of the1949 Armistice Agreement, Jordan and Israel were to establish committees to arrange the resumption of the normal functioning of cultural and humanitarian institutions on Mt. Scopus, use of the cemetery on the Mount of Olives, and free access to holy places and cultural institutions. Jordan violated the agreement, however, and denied Israelis access to the Western Wall and to the cemetery on the Mount of Olives, where Jews have buried their dead for more than 2,500 years.

Under Jordanian rule, “Israeli Christians were subjected to various restrictions during their seasonal pilgrimages to their holy places” in Jerusalem, noted Teddy Kollek. “Only limited numbers were grudgingly permitted to briefly visit the Old City and Bethlehem at Christmas and Easter.”9

In 1955 and 1964, Jordan passed laws imposing strict government control on Christian schools, including restrictions on the opening of new schools, state control over school finances and appointment of teachers and the requirements that the Koran be taught. In 1953 and 1965, Jordan adopted laws abrogating the right of Christian religious and charitable institutions to acquire real estate in Jerusalem.

In 1958, police seized the Armenian Patriarch-elect and deported him from Jordan, paving the way for the election of a patriarch supported by King Hussein’s government. Because of these repressive policies, many Christians emigrated from Jerusalem. Their numbers declined from 25,000 in 1949 to fewer than 13,000 in June 1967.10

These discriminatory laws were abolished by Israel after the city was reunited in 1967.

*MYTH*

_“Jordan safeguarded Jewish holy places.”_

*FACT*

Jordan desecrated Jewish holy places. King Hussein permitted the construction of a road to the Intercontinental Hotel across the Mount of Olives cemetery. Hundreds of Jewish graves were destroyed by a highway that could have easily been built elsewhere. The gravestones, honoring the memory of rabbis and sages, were used by the engineer corps of the Jordanian Arab Legion as pavement and latrines in army camps (inscriptions on the stones were still visible when Israel liberated the city).

The ancient Jewish Quarter of the Old City was ravaged, 58 Jerusalem synagogues — some centuries old — were destroyed or ruined, others were turned into stables and chicken coops. Slum dwellings were built abutting the Western Wall.11

*MYTH*

_“Under Israeli rule, religious freedom has been curbed in Jerusalem.”_

*FACT*

After the 1967 war, Israel abolished all the discriminatory laws promulgated by Jordan and adopted its own tough standard for safeguarding access to religious shrines. “Whoever does anything that is likely to violate the freedom of access of the members of the various religions to the places sacred to them,” Israeli law stipulates, is “liable to imprisonment for a term of five years.” Israel also entrusted administration of the holy places to their respective religious authorities. Thus, for example, the Muslim Waqf has responsibility for the mosques on the Temple Mount.

Les Filles de la Charite de l’Hospice Saint Vincent de Paul of Jerusalem repudiated attacks on Israel’s conduct in Jerusalem a few months after Israel took control of the city:​


> Our work here has been made especially happy and its path smoother by the goodwill of Israeli authorities...smoother not only for ourselves, but (more importantly) for the Arabs in our care.12







__





						Myths & Facts Online - Jerusalem
					

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.




					www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Everyone under the Mandate of Palestine, when you were a kid, was called Palestinian.
> 
> Arafat is the one who decided to adopt the nationality of Palestinians, which the Jews did not want even for the Mandate for their homeland. In 1963.
> 
> I responded to a different post



The Palestinian people working in Arabia in the 1950s were Muslims and Christians.. Arabs. There weren't any Jews working in Arabia.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> *MYTH*
> 
> _“From 1948 through 1967, Jordan ensured freedom of worship for all religions in Jerusalem.”_
> 
> *FACT*
> 
> From 1948-67, Jerusalem was divided between Israel and Jordan. Israel made western Jerusalem its capital; Jordanoccupied the eastern section. Because Jordan maintained a state of war with Israel, the city became, in essence, two armed camps, replete with concrete walls and bunkers, barbed-wire fences, minefields and other military fortifications.
> 
> Under paragraph eight of the1949 Armistice Agreement, Jordan and Israel were to establish committees to arrange the resumption of the normal functioning of cultural and humanitarian institutions on Mt. Scopus, use of the cemetery on the Mount of Olives, and free access to holy places and cultural institutions. Jordan violated the agreement, however, and denied Israelis access to the Western Wall and to the cemetery on the Mount of Olives, where Jews have buried their dead for more than 2,500 years.
> 
> Under Jordanian rule, “Israeli Christians were subjected to various restrictions during their seasonal pilgrimages to their holy places” in Jerusalem, noted Teddy Kollek. “Only limited numbers were grudgingly permitted to briefly visit the Old City and Bethlehem at Christmas and Easter.”9
> 
> In 1955 and 1964, Jordan passed laws imposing strict government control on Christian schools, including restrictions on the opening of new schools, state control over school finances and appointment of teachers and the requirements that the Koran be taught. In 1953 and 1965, Jordan adopted laws abrogating the right of Christian religious and charitable institutions to acquire real estate in Jerusalem.
> 
> In 1958, police seized the Armenian Patriarch-elect and deported him from Jordan, paving the way for the election of a patriarch supported by King Hussein’s government. Because of these repressive policies, many Christians emigrated from Jerusalem. Their numbers declined from 25,000 in 1949 to fewer than 13,000 in June 1967.10
> 
> These discriminatory laws were abolished by Israel after the city was reunited in 1967.
> 
> *MYTH*
> 
> _“Jordan safeguarded Jewish holy places.”_
> 
> *FACT*
> 
> Jordan desecrated Jewish holy places. King Hussein permitted the construction of a road to the Intercontinental Hotel across the Mount of Olives cemetery. Hundreds of Jewish graves were destroyed by a highway that could have easily been built elsewhere. The gravestones, honoring the memory of rabbis and sages, were used by the engineer corps of the Jordanian Arab Legion as pavement and latrines in army camps (inscriptions on the stones were still visible when Israel liberated the city).
> 
> The ancient Jewish Quarter of the Old City was ravaged, 58 Jerusalem synagogues — some centuries old — were destroyed or ruined, others were turned into stables and chicken coops. Slum dwellings were built abutting the Western Wall.11
> 
> *MYTH*
> 
> _“Under Israeli rule, religious freedom has been curbed in Jerusalem.”_
> 
> *FACT*
> 
> After the 1967 war, Israel abolished all the discriminatory laws promulgated by Jordan and adopted its own tough standard for safeguarding access to religious shrines. “Whoever does anything that is likely to violate the freedom of access of the members of the various religions to the places sacred to them,” Israeli law stipulates, is “liable to imprisonment for a term of five years.” Israel also entrusted administration of the holy places to their respective religious authorities. Thus, for example, the Muslim Waqf has responsibility for the mosques on the Temple Mount.
> 
> Les Filles de la Charite de l’Hospice Saint Vincent de Paul of Jerusalem repudiated attacks on Israel’s conduct in Jerusalem a few months after Israel took control of the city:​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Myths & Facts Online - Jerusalem
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org



The Arabs took care of all the Holy sites for 1300 years before Jordan ever existed.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Palestinian people working in Arabia in the 1950s were Muslims and Christians.. Arabs. There weren't any Jews working in Arabia.


Ahhh, Palestinians in Arabia, after 1948.  Thank you for the clarification.

Again, from the Mandate of Palestine on-  circa 1922, all who had been in the area of the Mandate until 1948 were called Palestinians. No surprise that many would keep that identity until Arafat made it official from Moscow in 1963.

I am glad that Arab Palestinians found work in Arabia, and all other Muslim countries.

No Jews have been allowed to live or work back in Arabia since the 7th Century.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Arabs took care of all the Holy sites for 1300 years before Jordan ever existed.


And Arabs also took care that for most of those 1300 years Jews would not be allowed to worship at their holy sites. Not peacefully.

The Hashemites, from 1948 to 1967 - and even now, continue in the tradition of prohibiting, or attempting to prohibit, Jews from worshiping at their sites.

Before that, Al Husseini saw to it that Jews would have no right to their holy sites:





__





						The “Western Wall” Riots of 1929: Religious Boundaries and Communal Violence on JSTOR
					

This article analyzes the outbreak of the deadly 1929 riots in Palestine. Focusing on Jerusalem, Safad, and Hebron, the cities most significantly affected by th...




					www.jstor.org
				





The article below will give you an idea what it is like to all who live in Israel when it comes to their holy sites:



			https://mfa.gov.il/mfa_graphics/mfa%20gallery/israel60/ch6.pdf
		



Why aren't Jews allowed to pray at their holiest site?

Why do Muslims continuously attempt to destroy Jewish Holy sites like the Rachel and Joseph Tombs?

Not sure that building a Mosque on top of Solomon's Temple is "taking care of "  Jewish sites, but instead telling the Jews that they have conquered their land.

-----
But this was your original question:

" What holy place are the Jews allowing Palestinians to worship?"

I hope 



			https://mfa.gov.il/mfa_graphics/mfa%20gallery/israel60/ch6.pdf
		


answers your questions.


----------



## Sixties Fan

“When i reported that another illegal 1,355 homes were on the way, the Camera pro-Israel lobbying group was quick to complain that we hadn’t mentioned that ‘Israel is also set to approve 1,600 units for Palestinians in the areas of the West Bank that it controls,’ a fact that it said was needed for ‘context,'” he wrote.

“Well, here’s some more context,” Day continued.

“The Palestinians seek the West Bank, along with the Gaza Strip and east Jerusalem — areas Israel captured in the 1967 Mideast war — to build a state they don’t have. The presence of 700,000 Israeli settlers is the main obstacle to peace.”

Day went on quote denunciations from Tor Wennesland, UN Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process, as well as Hagit Ofran of Peace Now, and belittle U.S. military aid to Israel.

CAMERA-UK, naturally, defended itself and picked apart Day’s mischaracterizations of Israel. First, the organization is a media watchdog, not a “lobby group.” Next, settlements aren’t an obstacle to peace because even when the Arabs controlled Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip between 1948-1967, they still couldn’t accept Israel’s existence.

Memo to Day: When Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran, the casus belli for the Six-Day War, there were no “settlements.”

Talk about an overreaction. As if there aren’t more important issues for Day and his readers than haggling over the meaning of 1,600 housing units for Palestinians in Area C.

In any event, CAMERA UK apparently got the final vindication. The article that started it all, “Israel approves 2,800 settler homes,” can no longer be found on the i news site.

(full article online)









						UK News Site Omits Key Information About Israel, Refuses to Make Correction | United with Israel
					

Over-reacting screed haggles over the significance of 1,600 housing units approved for Palestinians and attacks CAMERA UK.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> And Arabs also took care that for most of those 1300 years Jews would not be allowed to worship at their holy sites. Not peacefully.
> 
> The Hashemites, from 1948 to 1967 - and even now, continue in the tradition of prohibiting, or attempting to prohibit, Jews from worshiping at their sites.
> 
> Before that, Al Husseini saw to it that Jews would have no right to their holy sites:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The “Western Wall” Riots of 1929: Religious Boundaries and Communal Violence on JSTOR
> 
> 
> This article analyzes the outbreak of the deadly 1929 riots in Palestine. Focusing on Jerusalem, Safad, and Hebron, the cities most significantly affected by th...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jstor.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The article below will give you an idea what it is like to all who live in Israel when it comes to their holy sites:
> 
> 
> 
> https://mfa.gov.il/mfa_graphics/mfa%20gallery/israel60/ch6.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why aren't Jews allowed to pray at their holiest site?
> 
> Why do Muslims continuously attempt to destroy Jewish Holy sites like the Rachel and Joseph Tombs?
> 
> Not sure that building a Mosque on top of Solomon's Temple is "taking care of "  Jewish sites, but instead telling the Jews that they have conquered their land.
> 
> -----
> But this was your original question:
> 
> " What holy place are the Jews allowing Palestinians to worship?"
> 
> I hope
> 
> 
> 
> https://mfa.gov.il/mfa_graphics/mfa%20gallery/israel60/ch6.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> answers your questions.



For the most part Palestine was sleepy and apolitical. The Ottomans left the groups alone to govern themselves. You should rethink your incessant defense and victim mindset.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> For the most part Palestine was sleepy and apolitical. The Ottomans left the groups alone to govern themselves. You should rethink your incessant defense and victim mindset.



Until Arab supremacists expelled Jews from all their holy cities?

Report from Safed about the* Arab massacres of 1834:*
_"Now I have come to announce the large losses and afflictions that have been created in Israel in four countries, ie Jerusalem,and Hebron and the Upper Galilee, namely Safed. And the lower Galilee, namely the city of Tabriya. By the hands of the plunderers and looters that rose in the country. And they come only upon the Jews...

*On Sunday, eight days in the month of Sivan, the looters, inhabitants of the villages joined with the inhabitants of the cities. They had weapons of war and shields and fell upon all the Jews and stripped their clothes from men and women. They expelled them naked from the city, and plundered all their property...

The remnants were coerced and raped whether men or women. Tore all the Torah scrolls, and their talit and tefilin and the city was abandoned... This was so for 33 days, so was done in the city of Safed, so was done in other towns."*_

Periodicals of people of Israel in Eretz Israel - Menachem Mendel ben- Aaaron 1800-1873


----------



## rylah




----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> For the most part Palestine was sleepy and apolitical. The Ottomans left the groups alone to govern themselves. You should rethink your incessant defense and victim mindset.


Were Jews keeping Arabs  and other Muslims down in ancient Israel for the past 1400 years? No, it has been the other way around.

Were Jews attacking Arabs and other Muslims in ancient Israel for the past 1400 years? No, it has been the other way around.

Did the Ottoman Empire do anything to stop any attacks on Jews?  No.


You continue to talk in generalizations, never specifics.

I cannot ever rethink that the Muslim and Arab mindset is the one which wants to destroy Israel and possibly even kill all the Jews, as they continuously repeat this idea in just about every Muslim school, not only in Asia, but in Europe, the Americas, Australia, and everywhere where Muslims have moved to and are trying to turn other people's minds against Israel.

It is called protecting and defending one's people's right to exist, to live in peace in one's own sovereign homeland.

It is no different than our ancestors defending our land and people from the Philistines, the Greeks, the Romans and later on from the British and Muslims and Christians who cannot see Jews as human beings with rights, but as second class citizens who must do as they are told or be expelled or killed.

When you figure that out, let me know.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The agreement is not saying that the boundary between Israel and Jordan is in question. It is instructing any maps created based on this agreement to include language that says Judea and Samaria's legal status has not been determined. 

Under accepted international law, maps themselves are generally regarded as evidence, but have no legal value in and of themselves. The text in a map does not have the same weight as a legal agreement, unless it is attached as part of the agreement itself. The ICJ ruled as such in 1986. 

The crucial point is that there was no such map attached to the agreement itself. Without that, the agreement text is the only legal definition of the border between Israel and Jordan - meaning that under international law, Israel's border ends where Jordan's begins. 

Whatever legal status Judea and Samaria have, the 1949 armistice lines were not legal boundaries (borders) in 1949, nor in 1967, and certainly not after this 1994 agreement. 

The EU knows this. It calls the 1949 armistice lines "borders" anyway. 

Which means that the EU is knowingly lying about the facts to push its own political agenda of creating a Palestinian state on borders that never existed in any way.

In any other context, this would be a huge scandal. But when it comes to Israel, facts suddenly become optional and narratives are what drives EU resolutions. 

(full article online)









						Why does the EU @eu_eeas keep talking about the nonexistent "pre-1967 borders" when they were explicitly never meant to be borders?
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Were Jews keeping Arabs  and other Muslims down in ancient Israel for the past 1400 years? No, it has been the other way around.
> 
> Were Jews attacking Arabs and other Muslims in ancient Israel for the past 1400 years? No, it has been the other way around.
> 
> Did the Ottoman Empire do anything to stop any attacks on Jews?  No.
> 
> 
> You continue to talk in generalizations, never specifics.
> 
> I cannot ever rethink that the Muslim and Arab mindset is the one which wants to destroy Israel and possibly even kill all the Jews, as they continuously repeat this idea in just about every Muslim school, not only in Asia, but in Europe, the Americas, Australia, and everywhere where Muslims have moved to and are trying to turn other people's minds against Israel.
> 
> It is called protecting and defending one's people's right to exist, to live in peace in one's own sovereign homeland.
> 
> It is no different than our ancestors defending our land and people from the Philistines, the Greeks, the Romans and later on from the British and Muslims and Christians who cannot see Jews as human beings with rights, but as second class citizens who must do as they are told or be expelled or killed.
> 
> When you figure that out, let me know.



There were very few  Jewish people in Palestine prior to 1920 and in 1922 they organized to protest the flood of European immigrants.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> The agreement is not saying that the boundary between Israel and Jordan is in question. It is instructing any maps created based on this agreement to include language that says Judea and Samaria's legal status has not been determined.
> 
> Under accepted international law, maps themselves are generally regarded as evidence, but have no legal value in and of themselves. The text in a map does not have the same weight as a legal agreement, unless it is attached as part of the agreement itself. The ICJ ruled as such in 1986.
> 
> The crucial point is that there was no such map attached to the agreement itself. Without that, the agreement text is the only legal definition of the border between Israel and Jordan - meaning that under international law, Israel's border ends where Jordan's begins.
> 
> Whatever legal status Judea and Samaria have, the 1949 armistice lines were not legal boundaries (borders) in 1949, nor in 1967, and certainly not after this 1994 agreement.
> 
> The EU knows this. It calls the 1949 armistice lines "borders" anyway.
> 
> Which means that the EU is knowingly lying about the facts to push its own political agenda of creating a Palestinian state on borders that never existed in any way.
> 
> In any other context, this would be a huge scandal. But when it comes to Israel, facts suddenly become optional and narratives are what drives EU resolutions.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why does the EU @eu_eeas keep talking about the nonexistent "pre-1967 borders" when they were explicitly never meant to be borders?
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com



They weren't given the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights by the mandate. Arabs, Christian and Muslim, had been the majority for more than a thousand years. Even before the birth of Christ more Jews lived outside of Israel in Alexandria, Elephantine Island, Damascus, Aleppo and Persia... and all around the Med Sea.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> There were very few  Jewish people in Palestine prior to 1920 and in 1922 they organized to protest the flood of European immigrants.


There were lots of Jews before the Kurdish Muslims invaded, and then the Arabs.

There were a lot of First Nation People in the Americas, Australia and New Zealand before the Europeans invaded and took all, if not most of it.

Arabs, Under Al Husseini, were protesting Jews.  If those coming had been Muslims, or even Christians not wanting sovereignty over the land, they would have been ok.

Ancient Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people, whether they moved to Europe, Americas, Australia, or the Moon and they had every right to return to their homeland.  They were not expecting a warm welcome, although they were treated well before the Mandate happened.

You are basically saying that if the Christian Copts somehow managed to separate some part of their ancient land in Egypt for themselves, or all of it, the Muslims would say that they actually were not indigenous of the land, and the Muslims were.

Or the Kurds, who at 5 Million or more, have not been allowed to declare Independence on their own homeland because other Muslims, specifically Arabs and Turks,  do not see them as the rightful owners of those lands.


Blame European Jew hatred, piled on top of Muslim Jew hatred for the Arabs living in ancient Israel not having a peaceful life, as it should have been, and one of progress for the past 100 years.

Arabs who live in Israel see what Jews are like, live with them, work with them and are proud of being citizens of Israel.   That is how it would have been for all Arabs, Muslim and Christians, if Al Husseini had not declared war on the Jewish people re constructing their Nation ON their ancient homeland.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> They weren't given the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights by the mandate. Arabs, Christian and Muslim, had been the majority for more than a thousand years. Even before the birth of Christ more Jews lived outside of Israel in Alexandria, Elephantine Island, Damascus, Aleppo and Persia... and all around the Med Sea.


Forget the Mandate.  The British had no intention of giving any part of the Jewish Homeland to the Jews.
78% was given to the Hashemites, 22% was going to go to the British.

Indigenous rights to their ancient homeland has nothing to do with how many there were at any particular time.  You do know that.  That goes for ALL indigenous people on the planet.

As far as Muslims are concerned, Southern Spain, Vienna and all other European areas once conquered by Muslims belong to Muslims to this day, and they want it back.

Palestine, to Muslims,  is not about who is indigenous or how many of each people were living at any given time.
It is about Muslims, once they conquered any land, that land becomes Muslims and only Muslim.

And that is how Al Husseini saw it, and incited all Arabs and Muslims to think like, in order to keep the Jews from rightfully, legally, reconstructing their ancient homeland, because Islam and Christianity do not want Jews to have a home of their own.  Both religions think Jews must be forever punished for denying their religions and not converting to them.


Something for you to finally think about?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Forget the Mandate.  The British had no intention of giving any part of the Jewish Homeland to the Jews.
> 78% was given to the Hashemites, 22% was going to go to the British.
> 
> Indigenous rights to their ancient homeland has nothing to do with how many there were at any particular time.  You do know that.  That goes for ALL indigenous people on the planet.
> 
> As far as Muslims are concerned, Southern Spain, Vienna and all other European areas once conquered by Muslims belong to Muslims to this day, and they want it back.
> 
> Palestine, to Muslims,  is not about who is indigenous or how many of each people were living at any given time.
> It is about Muslims, once they conquered any land, that land becomes Muslims and only Muslim.
> 
> And that is how Al Husseini saw it, and incited all Arabs and Muslims to think like, in order to keep the Jews from rightfully, legally, reconstructing their ancient homeland, because Islam and Christianity do not want Jews to have a home of their own.  Both religions think Jews must be forever punished for denying their religions and not converting to them.
> 
> 
> Something for you to finally think about?



They were very generous with the Jewish immigrants and refugees. They took land away from the Arab majority to give the European zionists a home. Chaim Weismann was very unhappy . He wanted it all no matter who had lived there for 2,000 years.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Forget the Mandate.  The British had no intention of giving any part of the Jewish Homeland to the Jews.
> 78% was given to the Hashemites, 22% was going to go to the British.
> 
> Indigenous rights to their ancient homeland has nothing to do with how many there were at any particular time.  You do know that.  That goes for ALL indigenous people on the planet.
> 
> As far as Muslims are concerned, Southern Spain, Vienna and all other European areas once conquered by Muslims belong to Muslims to this day, and they want it back.
> 
> Palestine, to Muslims,  is not about who is indigenous or how many of each people were living at any given time.
> It is about Muslims, once they conquered any land, that land becomes Muslims and only Muslim.
> 
> And that is how Al Husseini saw it, and incited all Arabs and Muslims to think like, in order to keep the Jews from rightfully, legally, reconstructing their ancient homeland, because Islam and Christianity do not want Jews to have a home of their own.  Both religions think Jews must be forever punished for denying their religions and not converting to them.
> 
> 
> Something for you to finally think about?



They are not demanding Spanish real estate or killing Spaniards for their land. They Jews fought with the Muslims to gain control of Muslim Spain.





__





						The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate
					





					avalon.law.yale.edu
				








__





						The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate
					





					avalon.law.yale.edu


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> They are not demanding Spanish real estate or killing Spaniards for their land. They Jews fought with the Muslims to gain control of Muslim Spain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu



Arab supremacists don't kill Spaniards??
They demand the Entire Middle east
and then some...





__





						Muslims Demand 'Right of Return' to Spain
					

Muslim groups are demanding Spanish citizenship for potentially millions of descendants of Muslims who were expelled from Spain during the Middle Ages. The growing clamor for




					www.realclearworld.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> They are not demanding Spanish real estate or killing Spaniards for their land. They Jews fought with the Muslims to gain control of Muslim Spain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu


Muslims are quietly taking over Europe.  No need for guns, or to fire any shots.

But you do not read what you do not want to read, and that way you do not have to know:



Unlike the larger Islamic community, the Muslim Brotherhood’s ultimate goal is not helping Muslims be the best citizens they can be, but rather to extend Islamist ideology throughout Europe and the United States and infiltrate judiciary and legislative branches of governments.

Through four decades of teaching, grooming and cultivation paid off. The student refugees who migrated from the Middle East forty years ago and their descendants now lead organizations that represent the local Muslim communities in their engagement with Europe’s political elite, funded by diverted charity money and generous contributors from their wealthy members and others working in the Arabian Gulf States, they preside over a centralized network that spans nearly every European country.

These Muslim Brotherhood represent themselves as mainstream tolerant Muslims, even as they continue to embrace the Islamist radical views and maintain links to terrorists.

The Islamist grew their influence by maintaining false moderate rhetoric and well-spoken German, Dutch, and French, they have gained acceptance among European governments and media alike.

Politicians across the political spectrum rush to engage them whenever an issue involving Muslims arises or, the MB successfully started gaining positions in the political scene as aids and allies the political elite rely on to secure votes of the Muslim community.

But those tolerant and peace loving Islamist drop their facade and embrace radicalism when speaking Arabic or Turkish in front of their followers. While their “face” representatives like community leaders, future politicians and influential figures speak about interfaith dialogue and integration on television, their mosques preach hate and radicalized worshippers using the evil west analogy while they publicly condemn the terrorist attacks, they continue to raise money for Hamas, Hezbollah and other terrorist organizations.

MB capitalize on Europeans, eagerness to create a dialogue with their Muslim communities, political correctness forced politicians to overlook this duplicity in fear of cancel culture, that’s particularly visible in Germany, Sweden and the United Kingdom.

The MB capitalized on the victim card to retain and expand their place in Europe, the MB slowly but surely started to rebranding themselves distancing themselves from extremist groups and Islamist labels in public and sticking to it secretly.

What sets the MB apart from other political groups is their ability to adapt, circumvent, absorb crises and move towards new paths for it through their deep theoretical and ideological beliefs and its Machiavellian focus on the end that justifies the means.

From decline in Egypt and Syria in the 1960s to renewed activity in Europe and GCC states via old platforms such as the Islamic Group in Germany (GID) that was founded in 1958. The German branch of the Muslim Brotherhood in Europe founded by the MB Godfather in Europe the son-in-law of Hassan al-Banna, Said Ramadan in 1958, and was chaired by the German-Egyptian Ibrahim Al-Zayat.

The Federation of “Islamic” Organizations in France, which was established in 1989 and the existing formations as well as some new pocket organizations funded by the State of Qatar in the early 2000s and indirectly managed by the Brotherhood, such as the ANELD Fund which was established and funded by Qatar with a total of one hundred million euros in coordination with the French government, to finance entrepreneurship projects for “Muslims” in the most marginalized suburbs of Paris that successfully lured the children of immigrants from the second and third generations into the fold of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Now you know, now the truth is out, what will you do?









						The Muslim Brotherhood’s tactics to conquer Europe from the Inside
					

by Khaled Hamoud Alshareef The MB capitalized on the victim card to retain and expand their place in Europe… While the Muslim Brotherhood’s (MB) radical ideas have shaped the beliefs of…




					millichronicle.com


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> Arab supremacists don't kill Spaniards??
> They demand the Entire Middle east
> and then some...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims Demand 'Right of Return' to Spain
> 
> 
> Muslim groups are demanding Spanish citizenship for potentially millions of descendants of Muslims who were expelled from Spain during the Middle Ages. The growing clamor for
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.realclearworld.com



You are a fool. Arab oil producers spend a lot of money on holidays in Spain.. Its a very popular vacation destination. They aren't stealing or even claiming land in Spain and Portugal.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> They are not demanding Spanish real estate or killing Spaniards for their land. They Jews fought with the Muslims to gain control of Muslim Spain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu


Some more Arab history you do not seem to be aware of, regardless of being born and raised in Arabia:


The indigenous peoples of North Africa, disparagingly called Barbarians or Berbers by Greeks and Romans because they spoke neither Greek nor Latin, were forcibly Islamized by the Arab conquest, but they kept their identity and their own language throughout the centuries.

*They, too, fought alongside their conquerors, and Berbers who converted to Islam founded the Almoravid and Almoads dynasties, which adhered to a stringent brand of Islam and were among the rulers of Spain.*

What Kurds and Berbers have in common is that they are both indigenous, non-Arab populations; have both been forcibly Islamized; and even participated with their new rulers in conquests fought in the name of Islam. Yet neither was treated as equals by the Arabs, who boast of their prophet and of the divine apparition of the Koran in Arabic, and look down on those who embraced their religion but remained “foreigners.”

Then there are the Copts, the indigenous population of Egypt. They converted to Christianity in the 1st century, and stubbornly refused to relinquish their faith through 1,400 years of Arab-Islamic occupation and repression. The Coptic church is Orthodox, autonomous and independent, and led by a pope. Today, Copts make up 10 percent of the population of Egypt.

They do not look for autonomy and feel an integral part of the country, but would like to be treated as equals. It is not likely to happen soon.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Muslims are quietly taking over Europe.  No need for guns, or to fire any shots.
> 
> But you do not read what you do not want to read, and that way you do not have to know:
> 
> 
> Unlike the larger Islamic community, the Muslim Brotherhood’s ultimate goal is not helping Muslims be the best citizens they can be, but rather to extend Islamist ideology throughout Europe and the United States and infiltrate judiciary and legislative branches of governments.
> 
> Through four decades of teaching, grooming and cultivation paid off. The student refugees who migrated from the Middle East forty years ago and their descendants now lead organizations that represent the local Muslim communities in their engagement with Europe’s political elite, funded by diverted charity money and generous contributors from their wealthy members and others working in the Arabian Gulf States, they preside over a centralized network that spans nearly every European country.
> 
> These Muslim Brotherhood represent themselves as mainstream tolerant Muslims, even as they continue to embrace the Islamist radical views and maintain links to terrorists.
> 
> The Islamist grew their influence by maintaining false moderate rhetoric and well-spoken German, Dutch, and French, they have gained acceptance among European governments and media alike.
> 
> Politicians across the political spectrum rush to engage them whenever an issue involving Muslims arises or, the MB successfully started gaining positions in the political scene as aids and allies the political elite rely on to secure votes of the Muslim community.
> 
> But those tolerant and peace loving Islamist drop their facade and embrace radicalism when speaking Arabic or Turkish in front of their followers. While their “face” representatives like community leaders, future politicians and influential figures speak about interfaith dialogue and integration on television, their mosques preach hate and radicalized worshippers using the evil west analogy while they publicly condemn the terrorist attacks, they continue to raise money for Hamas, Hezbollah and other terrorist organizations.
> 
> MB capitalize on Europeans, eagerness to create a dialogue with their Muslim communities, political correctness forced politicians to overlook this duplicity in fear of cancel culture, that’s particularly visible in Germany, Sweden and the United Kingdom.
> 
> The MB capitalized on the victim card to retain and expand their place in Europe, the MB slowly but surely started to rebranding themselves distancing themselves from extremist groups and Islamist labels in public and sticking to it secretly.
> 
> What sets the MB apart from other political groups is their ability to adapt, circumvent, absorb crises and move towards new paths for it through their deep theoretical and ideological beliefs and its Machiavellian focus on the end that justifies the means.
> 
> From decline in Egypt and Syria in the 1960s to renewed activity in Europe and GCC states via old platforms such as the Islamic Group in Germany (GID) that was founded in 1958. The German branch of the Muslim Brotherhood in Europe founded by the MB Godfather in Europe the son-in-law of Hassan al-Banna, Said Ramadan in 1958, and was chaired by the German-Egyptian Ibrahim Al-Zayat.
> 
> The Federation of “Islamic” Organizations in France, which was established in 1989 and the existing formations as well as some new pocket organizations funded by the State of Qatar in the early 2000s and indirectly managed by the Brotherhood, such as the ANELD Fund which was established and funded by Qatar with a total of one hundred million euros in coordination with the French government, to finance entrepreneurship projects for “Muslims” in the most marginalized suburbs of Paris that successfully lured the children of immigrants from the second and third generations into the fold of the Muslim Brotherhood.
> 
> Now you know, now the truth is out, what will you do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Muslim Brotherhood’s tactics to conquer Europe from the Inside
> 
> 
> by Khaled Hamoud Alshareef The MB capitalized on the victim card to retain and expand their place in Europe… While the Muslim Brotherhood’s (MB) radical ideas have shaped the beliefs of…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> millichronicle.com



Muslim Brotherhood was a reaction to Zionist behavior in Palestine and British colonialism..

They are banned in the Gulf States.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> You are a fool. Arab oil producers spend a lot of money on holidays in Spain.. Its a very popular vacation destination. They aren't stealing or even claiming land in Spain and Portugal.


It is not about tourism.  It is about Muslim extremist dreaming and working on reconquering land which had once been conquered by Muslims.

Islam is the only religion where its extremists think that way and will act on it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Muslim Brotherhood was a reaction to Zionist behavior in Palestine and British colonialism..
> 
> They are banned in the Gulf States.


Educate yourself.

Jews returning to their homeland is an AFRONT to extremist Muslims, which is what the Muslim Brotherhood is.

Not even Egypt could stand them and kicked them out after a year.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> They were very generous with the Jewish immigrants and refugees. They took land away from the Arab majority to give the European zionists a home. Chaim Weismann was very unhappy . He wanted it all no matter who had lived there for 2,000 years.



No, this is justice and the letter of the law,
generosity suggests beyond what one deserves.

While you try to race bate talking about European Zionists,
the majority of Israelis are people expelled by Arabs from the Middle East.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Some more Arab history you do not seem to be aware of, regardless of being born and raised in Arabia:
> 
> 
> The indigenous peoples of North Africa, disparagingly called Barbarians or Berbers by Greeks and Romans because they spoke neither Greek nor Latin, were forcibly Islamized by the Arab conquest, but they kept their identity and their own language throughout the centuries.
> 
> *They, too, fought alongside their conquerors, and Berbers who converted to Islam founded the Almoravid and Almoads dynasties, which adhered to a stringent brand of Islam and were among the rulers of Spain.*
> 
> What Kurds and Berbers have in common is that they are both indigenous, non-Arab populations; have both been forcibly Islamized; and even participated with their new rulers in conquests fought in the name of Islam. Yet neither was treated as equals by the Arabs, who boast of their prophet and of the divine apparition of the Koran in Arabic, and look down on those who embraced their religion but remained “foreigners.”
> 
> Then there are the Copts, the indigenous population of Egypt. They converted to Christianity in the 1st century, and stubbornly refused to relinquish their faith through 1,400 years of Arab-Islamic occupation and repression. The Coptic church is Orthodox, autonomous and independent, and led by a pope. Today, Copts make up 10 percent of the population of Egypt.
> 
> They do not look for autonomy and feel an integral part of the country, but would like to be treated as equals. It is not likely to happen soon.



Lots of Berbers converted to Judaism. They had a famous warrior queen... al Kahina.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Educate yourself.
> 
> Jews returning to their homeland is an AFRONT to extremist Muslims, which is what the Muslim Brotherhood is.
> 
> Not even Egypt could stand them and kicked them out after a year.



Yep. their militant nationalism developed in 1928.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Muslim Brotherhood was a reaction to Zionist behavior in Palestine and British colonialism..
> 
> They are banned in the Gulf States.


And by all means, do not take the article seriously, anymore than you have taken any other article, book and even Arabs who are against what the extremists are about which makes life


surada said:


> They were very generous with the Jewish immigrants and refugees. They took land away from the Arab majority to give the European zionists a home. Chaim Weismann was very unhappy . He wanted it all no matter who had lived there for 2,000 years.


The BS you keep devouring from your sources.

No Christians or Muslims were to be removed from the land.  At any time, by any Jewish leader.  Arabs migrating into the area, and those already living there were getting jobs with Jews created by Jews.  

If your learned BS was true, non Jews would have gotten zero jobs with Jews and would have never moved there from Egypt, Arabia, and all other places.

It is the same thing today.  Where are Arabs finding jobs?
With Jews.

Jews bought unwanted land like the swamp which became Tel-Aviv.  And other swamps and deserts where no one lived.

When a group of people attack another, declare war, as Al Husseini did with the Jews, be courageous enough to take the defeat for your actions and move on, instead on declaring even more war, ask 7 Arab countries to come and destroy a legitimate country and destroy a people simple because they are not Muslims.

No Jew ever complained or attempted to take back TranJordan which was part of the Mandate promised to reconstruct the Nation for the Jewish people.

Everything you say is full of holes and you are never able to cover those.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Lots of Berbers converted to Judaism. They had a famous warrior queen... al Kahina.


So what.  You keep repeating this grains of truth as if they matter in the whole picture.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> Lots of Berbers converted to Judaism. They had a famous warrior queen... al Kahina.


I think it the tribe of Zvulun that built there cities states in the antiquity.

Al Kahina, the one who led the resistance
to the Muslim conquest?









						Dihya - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Yep. their militant nationalism developed in 1928.


It is called defending oneself after the riots of 1920 and 1921.

They, and you, just keep hoping that Jews will just sit there and be nice and quiet, just as they used to be before the Mandate.

Any and all attacks on Jews before the Mandate......never happened or the Jews did something which brought it against them.

Egypt 1834

Damascus

There are so many where there were no Zionists, and even when Jews purchased land on their homeland, they were not attacked and called thieves or non indigenous with no right to be there.  Or stealing land from "Palestinians".

Rewrite history all you like.  History comes right back at you.


----------



## Rigby5

Sixties Fan said:


> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?




Totally wrong.
The Land of Canaan is NOT Jewish land, and was NEVER ethically Jewish land.

Before Jews invaded the Land of Canaan, around 1000 BC, they were known as Hebrew, not Jewish.
The name Jewish came from having invaded, captured, and living in Jerusalem, and ancient Canaanite city of many thousands of years before the Hebrew invasion.

But the Jews never were the majority, rightful owners, or lasting rulers of the Land of Canaan.
They were defeated and force to leave first by the Assyrians, around 750 BC.

The Babylonians defeated the Jews also around 650 BC, and forced all Jews to leave the Land of Canaan.
So there was not a single Jew living there any more.

Some Jews may have migrated back in after the Babylonians lost their power.
But Jews were not in the Land of Canaan in any number until the Romans picked the Jews as their surrogate, puppet, rulers.
Around 150 BC.
King Herod was not born Jewish, but was just a Roman who pretended to convert.

And Jewish rule for the Romans was evil, with things like crucifixions.
But the Jews committed the sins of Arrogance and Pride.
Twice they rebelled against the Romans, and were defeated twice.
And again were all forced to leave, by the Roman Diaspora Decree by 150 AD.

There was no significant Jewish presence in the Land of Canaan until after Islam had removed all Roman influence, after 700 AD.
But then the Crusaders invaded and wiped out all Jewish presence once again, around 1000 AD.

There was no significant Jewish presence in the Land of Canaan until the illegal Jewish immigration around 1930 and later.

And the claim the Palestinians are trying to destroy Jewish heritage is a total backwards lie.
The reality is the Zionist are attempting to commit total genocide, such as the massacre of hundreds of Arab villages like Dier Yassin, from 1946, and still going on even now.
Just look at a map from 1940 and one from 1950.
There are hundreds of Arab villages missing, with all their inhabitants slaughtered or expelled by force.
Greatest crime of the century.

As for the Cave of the Patriarchs, it was built by Romans for the Roman puppet, Herod.
It has no real Jewish significance.
It is not related  to either Temple of Solomon, and if it has any Jewish significance, it would have been destroyed by the Romans, as they destroyed the 2nd Temple of Solomon and any other building of Jewish significance.

As for Rachel's Tomb, it was built around 1400 AD, by the Mamluk Period, Ottoman Empire.
It is not Jewish and there is no evidence of any Jewish history there.
Traditionally is it a local burial plot.
There is a small chance this was at one time also a Jewish burial plot, but there is nothing to support that.


----------



## danielpalos

Does it matter?  There were Semites in historic Palestine.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Lots of Berbers converted to Judaism. They had a famous warrior queen... al Kahina.


So that you do come to understand the history of Jewish Berbers:









						Morocco's Jewish Berber History
					

The Berber people are the indigenous people of Morocco and their history stretches far back in history. One subset has a strong Jewish lineage of which reminders exist today.




					www.journeybeyondtravel.com
				





The difference between Jewish and Muslim Berbers from what I see:

Jews either moved there, or Berbers converted to Judaism on their own.

Berbers were forced to convert to Islam, as all others had been since Mohammad's time.


----------



## Rigby5

teddyearp said:


> Abi, caught in yet another lie. You claim that indee admitted that the western wall is actually from a roman fort, then when you show what he actually said, it is not what he said at all!
> 
> The western wall is not part of the old temple and never was considered as such. It is a retaining wall built by Herod for the temple mount.



Whether the largest foundation stones are from the period or Herod or earlier Canaanite temple to Baal, it is not Jewish.
Construction during Herod's reign would be Roman.


----------



## danielpalos

Isn't it silly to be anti-Semitic in historic Palestine?


----------



## Rigby5

danielpalos said:


> Does it matter?  There were Semites in historic Palestine.



Yes, but the word "Semite" means Arab, like the Canaanites, Akkadians, Assyrians, Chaldeans, Phoenicians, Philistines, Nabatians, Hewbrew, Amorites, Urites, etc.
And the Jews were the least native and least numerous of all the Semitic people of the Land of Canaan.


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> No, this is justice and the letter of the law,
> generosity suggests beyond what one deserves.
> 
> While you try to race bate talking about European Zionists,
> the majority of Israelis are people expelled by Arabs from the Middle East.



The Arab jews left in 1948, 1953, 1956, 1967 and 1973. There was no mad dash to leave.

The European Zionists should have been smarter and kinder towards the people of Palestine.


----------



## Rigby5

Sixties Fan said:


> So that you do come to understand the history of Jewish Berbers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Morocco's Jewish Berber History
> 
> 
> The Berber people are the indigenous people of Morocco and their history stretches far back in history. One subset has a strong Jewish lineage of which reminders exist today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.journeybeyondtravel.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difference between Jewish and Muslim Berbers from what I see:
> 
> Jews either moved there, or Berbers converted to Judaism on their own.
> 
> Berbers were forced to convert to Islam, as all others had been since Mohammad's time.



Monotheistic religions, like Judaism and Christianity, are protected by the Quran, so were not required to convert to Islam.
Only polytheistic religions were forced.

The Berbers seem to be a real crossroads sort of mix.
{...
The *traditional Berber religion* is the ancient and native set of beliefs and deities adhered to by the Berbers (Amazigh autochthones) of North Africa. Many ancient Amazigh beliefs were developed locally, whereas others were influenced over time through contact with other ancient Egyptian religion, or borrowed during antiquity from the Punic religion, Judaism, Iberian mythology, and the Hellenistic religion. The most recent influence came from Islam and religion in pre-Islamic Arabia during the medieval period. Some of the ancient Amazigh beliefs still exist today subtly within the Amazigh popular culture and tradition. Syncretic influences from the traditional Amazigh religion can also be found in certain other faiths.
...}


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> So that you do come to understand the history of Jewish Berbers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Morocco's Jewish Berber History
> 
> 
> The Berber people are the indigenous people of Morocco and their history stretches far back in history. One subset has a strong Jewish lineage of which reminders exist today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.journeybeyondtravel.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difference between Jewish and Muslim Berbers from what I see:
> 
> Jews either moved there, or Berbers converted to Judaism on their own.
> 
> Berbers were forced to convert to Islam, as all others had been since Mohammad's time.



When you tell yourself lies you'll never have anything but hate.

Conversions were not forced on any of the local populations. No accounts, by either Muslim or non-Muslim sources, mention forced conversion of the Berbers. Indeed, many Berbers did convert to Islam quite quickly. That strengthened the Muslim armies, as huge numbers of newly-converted Berbers would join the armies sweeping across the continent.


----------



## Rigby5

danielpalos said:


> Isn't it silly to be anti-Semitic in historic Palestine?



Semitic means Arab.
Historic Palestine was always Arab.

Jews were temporary invaders for a few hundred year, and later Roman puppets.
They are Arab, but not native to Palestine.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Arab jews left in 1948, 1953, 1956, 1967 and 1973. There was no mad dash to leave.
> 
> The European Zionists should have been smarter and kinder towards the people of Palestine.


There are no "Arab" Jews.  There only Jews who left Arab conquered lands.

Since you have never met an Arab who likes Jews, and especially Israelis, you keep talking from the side of your mouth.

Go to Israel, meet Arabs who are citizens of Israel, who live and work and deal with Jews on a daily basis, and then come back and spew all of that nonsense again.


----------



## danielpalos

Rigby5 said:


> Yes, but the word "Semite" means Arab, like the Canaanites, Akkadians, Assyrians, Chaldeans, Phoenicians, Philistines, Nabatians, Hewbrew, Amorites, Urites, etc.
> And the Jews were the least native and least numerous of all the Semitic people of the Land of Canaan.


LInk?  That is not my understanding.  And the usage of anti-Semite usually refers to Jews in the US.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> When you tell yourself lies you'll never have anything but hate.
> 
> Conversions were not forced on any of the local populations. No accounts, by either Muslim or non-Muslim sources, mention forced conversion of the Berbers. Indeed, many Berbers did convert to Islam quite quickly. That strengthened the Muslim armies, as huge numbers of newly-converted Berbers would join the armies sweeping across the continent.


Why did Mohammad create an army?  Why did they have swords?  Because it looked good on them?  
In other words, tribes in Arabia after his death did not try to return to their ancient gods and way of life?  According to whom?

Well, all the people in Arabia simply fell in love with Islam and wanted to convert.  The Kurds also fell in love with Islam?  Maybe some saw the wisdom of not fighting but joining, you know the saying/

All other peoples simply could not resist Allah and his superior authority over all other gods.

Oh, yeah.


----------



## Rigby5

rylah said:


> No, this is justice and the letter of the law,
> generosity suggests beyond what one deserves.
> 
> While you try to race bate talking about European Zionists,
> the majority of Israelis are people expelled by Arabs from the Middle East.



No one was expelled from any Moslem country.
In fact, Moslem countries had made it illegal to emigrate to Israel.
They all snuck out to go to Israel, illegally.
You are just deliberately lying.
And the proof is that there are still Jews in all Moslem countries.
There are over 30,000 Jews living in Tehran alone.


----------



## Rigby5

Sixties Fan said:


> There are no "Arab" Jews.  There only Jews who left Arab conquered lands.
> 
> Since you have never met an Arab who likes Jews, and especially Israelis, you keep talking from the side of your mouth.
> 
> Go to Israel, meet Arabs who are citizens of Israel, who live and work and deal with Jews on a daily basis, and then come back and spew all of that nonsense again.



Liar.
The ONLY real Jews are Arabs, as the original Hebrew tribes are Arab.
The only Jews who are not Arab are converts.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Rigby5 said:


> No one was expelled from any Moslem country.
> In fact, Moslem countries had made it illegal to emigrate to Israel.
> They all snuck out to go to Israel, illegally.
> You are just deliberately lying.
> And the proof is that there are still Jews in all Moslem countries.
> There are over 30,000 Jews living in Tehran alone.


The number of Jews in Iran has plummeted since the 1979 Islamic Revolution













						Iran’s Jewish community is the largest in the Mideast outside Israel – and feels safe and respected
					

In a nation that has called for Israel to be wiped off the face of the Earth, the Iranian government allows thousands of Jews to worship in peace and continue their association with the country founded more than 2,500 years ago.




					www.usatoday.com
				



-------------------






			https://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/Issues/Pages/Jewish-refugees-expelled-from-Arab-lands-and-from-Iran-29-November-2016.aspx
		


-------
Although the issues surrounding the Palestinian refugees are frequently addressed at the United Nations (”U.N.”), in the news media, and in legal journals, very little has been written about the Jews displaced from Arab lands. In light of the little known fact that approximately 50% of Israelis are Jews from Arab lands or their descendents, this Article will use Jews from Iraq as a case study in examining the history and rights of Jews from Arab countries, who were expelled or forced to seek refuge elsewhere. Part I of this Article examines the historical legal status of Jews in Iraq and the discriminatory and prosecutorial events that triggered the expulsion of Jews from Iraq. Part II demonstrates that actions taken by Iraq against Jews violated international law stan- dards and other laws applicable now and at that time. Part III addresses the question of whether Jews from Arab lands currently have any available remedies for these violations of their rights. Finally, the Article concludes that a full accounting of the rights of Jews from Arab lands must accompany any discussions aimed at providing a regional peace agreement for the Middle East, if such an agreement is to have strength and legitimacy under international law.



			https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1881&context=ilj


----------



## Sixties Fan

https://www.france24.com › France 24 › Live news

Mar 28, 2021 — At the Habibiya Jewish cemetery in the capital Baghdad, wedged between the Martyr Monument erected by ex-dictator Saddam Hussein and the restive ...
-------


----------



## Rigby5

danielpalos said:


> LInk?  That is not my understanding.  And the usage of anti-Semite usually refers to Jews in the US.



The use of anti-Semitic to imply Jew was a German journalistic artifact starting around 1890.
The original and real meaning of the word "Semitic" is Arab, coming from Shem, a son of Noah, who is supposedly the father or all Arabs, including Hebrew.
In particular,. the word "Semitic" means "of an Arab language group".

{...
First used in the 1770s by members of the Göttingen School of History, this biblical terminology for race was derived from Shem (Hebrew: שֵׁם‎), one of the three sons of Noah in the Book of Genesis,[9] together with the parallel terms Hamites and Japhetites.

In archaeology, the term is sometimes used informally as "a kind of shorthand" for ancient Semitic-speaking peoples.[8]
...
The term Semitic in a racial sense was coined by members of the Göttingen School of History in the early 1770s. Other members of the Göttingen School of History coined the separate term Caucasian in the 1780s. These terms were used and developed by numerous other scholars over the next century. In the early 20th century, the racialist classifications of Carleton S. Coon included the Semitic peoples in the Caucasian race, as similar in appearance to the Indo-European, Northwest Caucasian, and Kartvelian-speaking peoples.[10] Due to the interweaving of language studies and cultural studies, the term also came to be applied to the religions (ancient Semitic and Abrahamic) and ethnicities of various cultures associated by geographic and linguistic distribution.[11]
...}

The word "anti-Semitic" did not start having a Jewish connotation until around 1890 German authors.

{...
The terms "anti-Semite" or "antisemitism" came by a circuitous route to refer more narrowly to anyone who was hostile or discriminatory towards Jews in particular.[12]

Anthropologists of the 19th century such as Ernest Renan readily aligned linguistic groupings with ethnicity and culture, appealing to anecdote, science and folklore in their efforts to define racial character. Moritz Steinschneider, in his periodical of Jewish letters _Hamaskir_ (3 (Berlin 1860), 16), discusses an article by Heymann Steinthal[13] criticising Renan's article "New Considerations on the General Character of the Semitic Peoples, In Particular Their Tendency to Monotheism".[14] Renan had acknowledged the importance of the ancient civilisations of Mesopotamia, Israel etc. but called the Semitic races inferior to the Aryan for their monotheism, which he held to arise from their supposed lustful, violent, unscrupulous and selfish racial instincts. Steinthal summed up these predispositions as "Semitism", and so Steinschneider characterised Renan's ideas as "anti-Semitic prejudice".[15]

In 1879 the German journalist Wilhelm Marr began the politicisation of the term by speaking of a struggle between Jews and Germans in a pamphlet called _Der Weg zum Siege des Germanenthums über das Judenthum_ ("The Way to Victory of Germanism over Judaism"). He accused the Jews of being liberals, a people without roots who had Judaized Germans beyond salvation. In 1879 Marr's adherents founded the "League for Anti-Semitism",[16] which concerned itself entirely with anti-Jewish political action.

Objections to the usage of the term, such as the obsolete nature of the term "Semitic" as a racial term and the exclusion of discrimination against non-Jewish Semitic peoples, have been raised since at least the 1930s.[17][18]
..}

For anyone to imply that "Semitic" means Jewish, is horrific cultural appropriation.
It is an attempt by modern Zionists to steal the ancient heritage of all the ancient Arab civilizations, of which Hebrew and Jews are very minor members.
For example, Jerusalem is an ancient Canaanite city where Canaanites have always been the majority.
Jews got their name from the Canaanite city, not that the Jews named Jerusalem after them.
Jews were almost never significant in number or power.
They only ruled Jerusalem for a few hundred years, and left no significant marks, construction, or cultural relevance.
The only thing they did do was transcript the Old Testament, hundreds of years after it was supposed to have taken place.


----------



## Rigby5

Sixties Fan said:


> Why did Mohammad create an army?  Why did they have swords?  Because it looked good on them?
> In other words, tribes in Arabia after his death did not try to return to their ancient gods and way of life?  According to whom?
> 
> Well, all the people in Arabia simply fell in love with Islam and wanted to convert.  The Kurds also fell in love with Islam?  Maybe some saw the wisdom of not fighting but joining, you know the saying/
> 
> All other peoples simply could not resist Allah and his superior authority over all other gods.
> 
> Oh, yeah.



There was a need for Arab unity to defeat and fill the void of the Roman imperialists.
Mohammad also had to fight Polytheists who attacked him.
But Islam was not the invading imperialist driving force.
That did not happen until around 1200 BC, with the Asian invaders who took over Islam, like the Mongols, Moghuls, Moors, Mamelukes, and Turks.


----------



## Rigby5

Sixties Fan said:


> The number of Jews in Iran has plummeted since the 1979 Islamic Revolution
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran’s Jewish community is the largest in the Mideast outside Israel – and feels safe and respected
> 
> 
> In a nation that has called for Israel to be wiped off the face of the Earth, the Iranian government allows thousands of Jews to worship in peace and continue their association with the country founded more than 2,500 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.usatoday.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/Issues/Pages/Jewish-refugees-expelled-from-Arab-lands-and-from-Iran-29-November-2016.aspx
> 
> 
> 
> -------
> Although the issues surrounding the Palestinian refugees are frequently addressed at the United Nations (”U.N.”), in the news media, and in legal journals, very little has been written about the Jews displaced from Arab lands. In light of the little known fact that approximately 50% of Israelis are Jews from Arab lands or their descendents, this Article will use Jews from Iraq as a case study in examining the history and rights of Jews from Arab countries, who were expelled or forced to seek refuge elsewhere. Part I of this Article examines the historical legal status of Jews in Iraq and the discriminatory and prosecutorial events that triggered the expulsion of Jews from Iraq. Part II demonstrates that actions taken by Iraq against Jews violated international law stan- dards and other laws applicable now and at that time. Part III addresses the question of whether Jews from Arab lands currently have any available remedies for these violations of their rights. Finally, the Article concludes that a full accounting of the rights of Jews from Arab lands must accompany any discussions aimed at providing a regional peace agreement for the Middle East, if such an agreement is to have strength and legitimacy under international law.
> 
> 
> 
> https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1881&context=ilj



That is naïve propaganda.
The reason most Jews moved to Israel is that Israel was offering free homes (confiscated from Arabs), and good jobs (based on US foreign aid).
Being Jewish, I was also offered a free home and good job in Israel.

There was ZERO forced displacement of Jews from Moslem lands.
The Quran is very clear "there can be no coercion over religion", and "Jews and Christians are Brothers of the Book", meaning the same Old Testament.

In fact, your post proves the opposite, that there were very large, successful, and happy Jewish population all through out the Moslem countries.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Rigby5 said:


> That is naïve propaganda.
> The reason most Jews moved to Israel is that Israel was offering free homes (confiscated from Arabs), and good jobs (based on US foreign aid).
> Being Jewish, I was also offered a free home and good job in Israel.
> 
> There was ZERO forced displacement of Jews from Moslem lands.
> The Quran is very clear "there can be no coercion over religion", and "Jews and Christians are Brothers of the Book", meaning the same Old Testament.
> 
> In fact, your post proves the opposite, that there were very large, successful, and happy Jewish population all through out the Moslem countries.


 You are the poster boy for "The Right to Destroy Jewish History "


----------



## Rigby5

Sixties Fan said:


> https://www.france24.com › France 24 › Live news
> 
> Mar 28, 2021 — At the Habibiya Jewish cemetery in the capital Baghdad, wedged between the Martyr Monument erected by ex-dictator Saddam Hussein and the restive ...
> -------



Your link is totally false.
It claims Iraq was on the Moslem side of the 1948 war, and that is a lie.
It claimed Jews were forced to leave Iraq, and that is a lie.
It claimed anti Zionist laws were anti Jewish, and that is a lie.
The truth is Iraq barred Jews from legally emigrating in 1952.




__





						Jews of Iraq
					

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.




					www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
				



{... in 1952, Iraq’s government barred Jews from emigrating...}


----------



## Rigby5

Sixties Fan said:


> You are the poster boy for "The Right to Destroy Jewish History "



You clearly are tying to appropriate Arab history as well as Arab Palestine.
Jews are just a small part of Arab history, and are trying to take credit for all of the Arab accomplishments.
For example, the modern Hebrew script is based on the old Arab Phoenician script, and is not old or original.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Rigby5 said:


> Your link is totally false.
> It claims Iraq was on the Moslem side of the 1948 war, and that is a lie.
> It claimed Jews were forced to leave Iraq, and that is a lie.
> It claimed anti Zionist laws were anti Jewish, and that is a lie.
> The truth is Iraq barred Jews from legally emigrating in 1952.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews of Iraq
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> {... in 1952, Iraq’s government barred Jews from emigrating...}


But before 1952........you have wipe out all that happened between 1950 and 1952.


----------



## Rigby5

Sixties Fan said:


> But before 1952........you have wipe out all that happened between 1950 and 1952.



Which is not much except the illegal confiscation of about a third of the Arab land in Israel.
The Zionist massacres of Arab villages were bad enough, but then Israel prevented the Arab refugees from returning to their homes in Palestine.
That is what rightfully angered the Arab neighbors and caused Israel to be a pariah that needs still to be destroyed if they do not change.
The denial of the "Right of Return" of the Arab refugees to their home in Israel and Palestine, is a blatant war crime.
No one can blame the Moslems for being angry with Jews about that.


----------



## danielpalos

Rigby5 said:


> The use of anti-Semitic to imply Jew was a German journalistic artifact starting around 1890.
> The original and real meaning of the word "Semitic" is Arab, coming from Shem, a son of Noah, who is supposedly the father or all Arabs, including Hebrew.
> In particular,. the word "Semitic" means "of an Arab language group".
> 
> {...
> First used in the 1770s by members of the Göttingen School of History, this biblical terminology for race was derived from Shem (Hebrew: שֵׁם‎), one of the three sons of Noah in the Book of Genesis,[9] together with the parallel terms Hamites and Japhetites.
> 
> In archaeology, the term is sometimes used informally as "a kind of shorthand" for ancient Semitic-speaking peoples.[8]
> ...
> The term Semitic in a racial sense was coined by members of the Göttingen School of History in the early 1770s. Other members of the Göttingen School of History coined the separate term Caucasian in the 1780s. These terms were used and developed by numerous other scholars over the next century. In the early 20th century, the racialist classifications of Carleton S. Coon included the Semitic peoples in the Caucasian race, as similar in appearance to the Indo-European, Northwest Caucasian, and Kartvelian-speaking peoples.[10] Due to the interweaving of language studies and cultural studies, the term also came to be applied to the religions (ancient Semitic and Abrahamic) and ethnicities of various cultures associated by geographic and linguistic distribution.[11]
> ...}
> 
> The word "anti-Semitic" did not start having a Jewish connotation until around 1890 German authors.
> 
> {...
> The terms "anti-Semite" or "antisemitism" came by a circuitous route to refer more narrowly to anyone who was hostile or discriminatory towards Jews in particular.[12]
> 
> Anthropologists of the 19th century such as Ernest Renan readily aligned linguistic groupings with ethnicity and culture, appealing to anecdote, science and folklore in their efforts to define racial character. Moritz Steinschneider, in his periodical of Jewish letters _Hamaskir_ (3 (Berlin 1860), 16), discusses an article by Heymann Steinthal[13] criticising Renan's article "New Considerations on the General Character of the Semitic Peoples, In Particular Their Tendency to Monotheism".[14] Renan had acknowledged the importance of the ancient civilisations of Mesopotamia, Israel etc. but called the Semitic races inferior to the Aryan for their monotheism, which he held to arise from their supposed lustful, violent, unscrupulous and selfish racial instincts. Steinthal summed up these predispositions as "Semitism", and so Steinschneider characterised Renan's ideas as "anti-Semitic prejudice".[15]
> 
> In 1879 the German journalist Wilhelm Marr began the politicisation of the term by speaking of a struggle between Jews and Germans in a pamphlet called _Der Weg zum Siege des Germanenthums über das Judenthum_ ("The Way to Victory of Germanism over Judaism"). He accused the Jews of being liberals, a people without roots who had Judaized Germans beyond salvation. In 1879 Marr's adherents founded the "League for Anti-Semitism",[16] which concerned itself entirely with anti-Jewish political action.
> 
> Objections to the usage of the term, such as the obsolete nature of the term "Semitic" as a racial term and the exclusion of discrimination against non-Jewish Semitic peoples, have been raised since at least the 1930s.[17][18]
> ..}
> 
> For anyone to imply that "Semitic" means Jewish, is horrific cultural appropriation.
> It is an attempt by modern Zionists to steal the ancient heritage of all the ancient Arab civilizations, of which Hebrew and Jews are very minor members.
> For example, Jerusalem is an ancient Canaanite city where Canaanites have always been the majority.
> Jews got their name from the Canaanite city, not that the Jews named Jerusalem after them.
> Jews were almost never significant in number or power.
> They only ruled Jerusalem for a few hundred years, and left no significant marks, construction, or cultural relevance.
> The only thing they did do was transcript the Old Testament, hundreds of years after it was supposed to have taken place.



The term Jew originated from the Roman "Judean" and denoted someone from the southern kingdom of Judah.[105] The shift of ethnonym from "Israelites" to "Jews" (inhabitant of Judah), although not contained in the Torah, is made explicit in the Book of Esther (4th century BCE),[106] a book in the Ketuvim, the third section of the Jewish Tanakh. In 587 BCE Nebuchadnezzar II, King of the Neo-Babylonian Empire, besieged Jerusalem, destroyed the First Temple, and deported the most prominent citizens of Judah.[107]








						Jews - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Rigby5

danielpalos said:


> The term Jew originated from the Roman "Judean" and denoted someone from the southern kingdom of Judah.[105] The shift of ethnonym from "Israelites" to "Jews" (inhabitant of Judah), although not contained in the Torah, is made explicit in the Book of Esther (4th century BCE),[106] a book in the Ketuvim, the third section of the Jewish Tanakh. In 587 BCE Nebuchadnezzar II, King of the Neo-Babylonian Empire, besieged Jerusalem, destroyed the First Temple, and deported the most prominent citizens of Judah.[107]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



Can't be.
The term "Jews" predates the Romans.
Some people are claiming it comes from the Hebrew word for praise, but that is likely also after the fact.
In reality is came from how happy the Hebrew were to have captured Jerusalem from the Canaanites.
But here is the "official" story.

{...
The term "Jew" is derived from the name of Jacob's fourth son, Judah--_Yehudah_, in the Hebrew—and may have originally applied only to Judah's descendents, who comprised one of the twelve tribes of Israel. On his deathbed, Jacob assigned Judah the role of leader and king—a prophesy that was fulfilled in 869 BCE when all twelve tribes submitted to the reign of King David of the tribe of Judah.
...}


			https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/640221/jewish/What-is-the-Meaning-of-the-Name-Jew.htm
		


But I know this is wrong because the Hebrew spelling, Yehudah_, _is all wrong. 
Jerusalem, Jericho, Jordan River all are with a 'j', just like Jew.


----------



## danielpalos

Rigby5 said:


> Can't be.
> The term "Jews" predates the Romans.
> Some people are claiming it comes from the Hebrew word for praise, but that is likely also after the fact.
> In reality is came from how happy the Hebrew were to have captured Jerusalem from the Canaanites.
> But here is the "official" story.
> 
> {...
> The term "Jew" is derived from the name of Jacob's fourth son, Judah--_Yehudah_, in the Hebrew—and may have originally applied only to Judah's descendents, who comprised one of the twelve tribes of Israel. On his deathbed, Jacob assigned Judah the role of leader and king—a prophesy that was fulfilled in 869 BCE when all twelve tribes submitted to the reign of King David of the tribe of Judah.
> ...}
> 
> 
> https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/640221/jewish/What-is-the-Meaning-of-the-Name-Jew.htm
> 
> 
> 
> But I know this is wrong because the Hebrew spelling, Yehudah_, _is all wrong.
> Jerusalem, Jericho, Jordan River all are with a 'j', just like Jew.


Would this still be an issue if the Jews had named their State, Judea instead?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> The number of Jews in Iran has plummeted since the 1979 Islamic Revolution
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran’s Jewish community is the largest in the Mideast outside Israel – and feels safe and respected
> 
> 
> In a nation that has called for Israel to be wiped off the face of the Earth, the Iranian government allows thousands of Jews to worship in peace and continue their association with the country founded more than 2,500 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.usatoday.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/Issues/Pages/Jewish-refugees-expelled-from-Arab-lands-and-from-Iran-29-November-2016.aspx
> 
> 
> 
> -------
> Although the issues surrounding the Palestinian refugees are frequently addressed at the United Nations (”U.N.”), in the news media, and in legal journals, very little has been written about the Jews displaced from Arab lands. In light of the little known fact that approximately 50% of Israelis are Jews from Arab lands or their descendents, this Article will use Jews from Iraq as a case study in examining the history and rights of Jews from Arab countries, who were expelled or forced to seek refuge elsewhere. Part I of this Article examines the historical legal status of Jews in Iraq and the discriminatory and prosecutorial events that triggered the expulsion of Jews from Iraq. Part II demonstrates that actions taken by Iraq against Jews violated international law stan- dards and other laws applicable now and at that time. Part III addresses the question of whether Jews from Arab lands currently have any available remedies for these violations of their rights. Finally, the Article concludes that a full accounting of the rights of Jews from Arab lands must accompany any discussions aimed at providing a regional peace agreement for the Middle East, if such an agreement is to have strength and legitimacy under international law.
> 
> 
> 
> https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1881&context=ilj



There were still Jews in Tripoli, Libya in 1973 and they were successful and prosperous.. like the Bahraini Jews today.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> But before 1952........you have wipe out all that happened between 1950 and 1952.



In 1950 Weismann approached Ibn Saud and ARAMCO to forcibly expell the rest of the Palestinians to work in Arabia on TAPLINE. That would have taken jobs from Saudis.  .. and Arabia had already taken 50,000 Palestinians.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Rigby5 said:


> You clearly are tying to appropriate Arab history as well as Arab Palestine.
> Jews are just a small part of Arab history, and are trying to take credit for all of the Arab accomplishments.
> For example, the modern Hebrew script is based on the old Arab Phoenician script, and is not old or original





surada said:


> There were still Jews in Tripoli, Libya in 1973 and they were successful and prosperous.. like the Bahraini Jews today.


Try present day Lybia:

Not a single Jew remains in Libya today.

Though Libya had been home to a Jewish community for thousands of years, and though the Jews had lived under Greek, Roman, Ottoman, Italian, British, and Arab rule, no trace of this once-thriving community exists anymore. 









						The Jews of Libya
					

The Jews of Libya




					www.yadvashem.org
				






Bahrain's tiny Jewish community, about 50 people, have practised their faith behind closed doors since 1947, when the Gulf country's only synagogue was destroyed in disturbances at the start of the Arab-Israeli conflict.









						Bahrain's Jews worship in public for first time in decades - France 24
					

Bahrain's Jews worship in public for first time in decades




					www.france24.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> In 1950 Weismann approached Ibn Saud and ARAMCO to forcibly expell the rest of the Palestinians to work in Arabia on TAPLINE. That would have taken jobs from Saudis.  .. and Arabia had already taken 50,000 Palestinians.


Source


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Try present day Lybia:
> 
> Not a single Jew remains in Libya today.
> 
> Though Libya had been home to a Jewish community for thousands of years, and though the Jews had lived under Greek, Roman, Ottoman, Italian, British, and Arab rule, no trace of this once-thriving community exists anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews of Libya
> 
> 
> The Jews of Libya
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yadvashem.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bahrain's tiny Jewish community, about 50 people, have practised their faith behind closed doors since 1947, when the Gulf country's only synagogue was destroyed in disturbances at the start of the Arab-Israeli conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bahrain's Jews worship in public for first time in decades - France 24
> 
> 
> Bahrain's Jews worship in public for first time in decades
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.france24.com



I know.. I used to live in Tripoli. Bahraini Jews did suffer everytime Israel pulled a stunt like attacking Egypt or causing the Suez crisis or attacking the USS Liberty or invading Lebanon.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Source



Lacy the Kingdom.

This is accurate.









						Dying to Forget the Israel Lobby?
					

Irene Gendzier makes two main claims about US Middle East policy in the late 1940s in her book Dying to Forget. Oil, Power, Palestine and the Foundations




					www.counterpunch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> I know.. I used to live in Tripoli. Bahraini Jews did suffer everytime Israel pulled a stunt like attacking Egypt or causing the Suez crisis or attacking the USS Liberty or invading Lebanon.


More re writing of history as you were living with Muslims  and others who only got that side of the stories.

Poor, poor Muslims.  The Jews are so mean to them.

Which is why Jews should never have sovereignty over any part of the world.  They are bad, and destructive.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Lacy the Kingdom.
> 
> This is accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dying to Forget the Israel Lobby?
> 
> 
> Irene Gendzier makes two main claims about US Middle East policy in the late 1940s in her book Dying to Forget. Oil, Power, Palestine and the Foundations
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.counterpunch.org


Counterpunch.

People forgot to tell you how Counterpunch is one of the many sites out there involved in demonizing Israel and changing its history.

Great reading choice.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> More re writing of history as you were living with Muslims  and others who only got that side of the stories.
> 
> Poor, poor Muslims.  The Jews are so mean to them.
> 
> Which is why Jews should never have sovereignty over any part of the world.  They are bad, and destructive.



Nope.. I have read  many contemporaneous accounts and the Palestine papers at Yale. I also made three trips to Palestine before 1967. Read a Palestinian Christian Cry for Reconciliation.

When I was young I used to listen to the BBC, Radio Free Europe and VOA every night about the small massacres Israelis carried out in Syria and Lebanon all the time.

It would take courage to look at what the Zionists have done in Palestine. Maybe you don't have that.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Lacy the Kingdom.
> 
> This is accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dying to Forget the Israel Lobby?
> 
> 
> Irene Gendzier makes two main claims about US Middle East policy in the late 1940s in her book Dying to Forget. Oil, Power, Palestine and the Foundations
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.counterpunch.org


I will let Rylah decide on its "accuracy"


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Nope.. I have read  many contemporaneous accounts and the Palestine papers at Yale. I also made three trips to Palestine before 1967. Read a Palestinian Christian Cry for Reconciliation.
> 
> When I was young I used to listen to the BBC, Radio Free Europe and VOA every night about the small massacres Israelis carried out in Syria and Lebanon all the time.
> 
> It would take courage to look at what the Zionists have done in Palestine. Maybe you don't have that.


It takes no courage for you to follow only what Muslim, Arab or any other Jew hating source you can get a hold , whether you have visited Israel, or not.  

Looks more like you did not go to Israel and meet all the Arabs there who were happy they were living in an Independent Israel.

Did you visit Gaza under Egyptian control?  Or "The West Bank" under Jordanian control at that time?  Needless to say there were no Jews there at the time, as all of them had been expelled in 1920 and 1948.

But I will let Rylah, who is more knowledgable about these history, to straighten it out.


----------



## Sixties Fan

A _New York Times_ reporter and photographer go into a car. They travel across one of the world’s happiest countries—and find only anger, alienation, and regret.

The opening paragraph is phrased like a joke because _New York Times_coverage of Israel—its efforts to curate, conceal, and contrive the faraway land for its American readers—has descended into hilarity. Indeed, yesterday’s front-page story by Jerusalem bureau chief Patrick Kingsley, which promises to help readers “discover what it means to be Israeli today,” is a comical caricature of the paper’s own biases, exposing much more about the _New York Times_ than about the country it is supposedly covering.

Israel’s place in the World Happiness Report’s index is marked by a red arrow.
To understand why, it helps to first understand a couple of facts about that country: Israel has consistently ranked at the top of measures of global happiness. The 2021 World Happiness Report, for example, found Israelis to be among the happiest in the world, and ranked their country as 12th happiest out of 149 countries over the past three years.

In other words, if you were to ask random Israelis to “think of a ladder, with the best possible life for them being a 10, and the worst possible life being a 0,” then ask them to “rate their own current lives on that 0 to 10 scale,” chances are you’d find them saying that they are living close to the best possible life. That’s what pollsters found.

According to other polling, by Israel’s Central Bureau of Statistics, over 88 percent of Israelis, including 76 percent of the country’s Arab citizens, were satisfied with their lives.

Nearly two in five said they were “very” satisfied.

It was this country that Kingsley set out to explore, meandering from the northern border to the southern tip over ten days to “discover” Israelis and duly report back to readers of the _New York Times_.

And finally, a happy non-Zionist to show us where the problem lies.

It is a cartoon. And whatever thoughtful insights Kingsley might offer are buried in this avalanche of cartoonish negativity. Yes, societies all have some darkness, not least one forced into decades of conflict and war. One would expect an appropriate share of the above adjectives in an honest exploration of any country. Israelis will certainly recognize some the themes Kingsley dwells on.

But this is over the top. In a country whose history of conflict makes all the more remarkable its resilience, vibrancy, and happiness, the _New York Times_, whose reputation of anti-Israel advocacy has grown in recent years, bends itself out of shape to curate malcontent. It isn’t following where the Israeli roads leads, letting chance encounters eventually paint an accurate picture. Rather, it’s flipping a two-headed coin to get the intended result. The cheating is apparent to those familiar with the country. It looks desperate. The desperation is clumsy. And the clumsiness is funny.

But it’s also sad, because a newspaper’s reporting isn’t meant to be funny. So the joke is on readers.

(full article online)









						NY Times Sells Comical Account of What It Means to be Israeli
					

The New York Times promises to show readers what it means to be Israeli. Instead, it curates, conceals, and contrives an ugly land of




					www.camera.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Egypt's popular Youm7 (Seventh Day) newspaper wrote a profile of Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels:

On this day, the Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels was born




> On this day, October 29, the German Joseph Goebbels was born in 1897 in the town of Rheydt, and had great skills in public speaking , which made him the voice and the mouthpiece of the Nazi Party from 1933 until 1945. He was known for his dedication to leader Adolf Hitler and directing the media machine to glorify his recent work and to discredit his political opponents and the Jews.
> 
> Known for his love of language and his desire to become a writer, he is similar to Hitler, who wanted to become a painter before turning to politics. He graduated from Heidelberg University after studying German philology, to join the Nazi Party in 1924 and complete a two-decade journey until his suicide by cyanide poisoning  in 1945.



That's it. Goebbels was a good speaker, he originally wanted to be a writer, he was dedicated to his leader and he knew how to use the media against his opponents including Jews.

There is not a hint that he ever did anything wrong.

Another Egyptian newspaper, Al Masry Al Youm, also wrote a biography of Goebbels in May, on the anniversary of his suicide. That one was a little more expansive - it noted how skilled he was in the art of propaganda and lying.

And then, twice, it says that Zionist learned how to lie from Goebbels.

Egyptian media seems to treat Nazis either as admirable or as models for Jews.

(full article online)









						Egyptian newspaper writes a bio of Goebbels - and doesn't say anything negative
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

( For a change, more and more Arabs and Muslims visiting Israel and seeing the country and the people for who and what they are, and not the stories they have heard about Israel most of their lives. Seeing how all religions live in peace together and respectful of each other. May she and others continue to visit Israel and pass on the facts they saw with their own eyes )

My emotions had not been all negative. Fears ran alongside excitement at visiting the Holy City. I never imagined that one day I would be able to visit and pray at the Holy Masjid in Islam (Masjid Al Aqsa).

The week was packed with knowledge and excitement. We met wonderful people as we visited different Israeli communities, including both Jewish, Arab, and Druze. Everyone was friendly, welcoming, and caring. They also supported and appreciated the work I am doing in Bahrain.

One of my lasting impressions was around Israel’s use of technology, both in education and beyond. I was amazed at how the clever use of technology effects Israelis’ day-to-day lives, as we discovered more at the Peres Center for Peace & Innovation in Tel Aviv. When it comes to the technology sector, I now believe that Israel is most developed country in the region.









						OPINION: As a Bahraini, I wanted to see Israel with my own eyes
					

Asma Alatwi reflects on her trip to the Holy Land to celebrate the anniversary of the Abraham Accords




					jewishnews.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

( Here is a nice article about the first wedding in Bahrain in a century.  Unfortunately the author repeats things like "Arab Jews", not knowing that either one is an Arab or one is a Jew, unless some Arabs did convert to Judaism.

And to say that the real home of those Jews is the Arab countries they had been expelled or had to escape from due to endless attacks and taking away of their rights?   

Here is hoping  he will become curious and come to learn the history of Jews in Arab conquered lands, and why there have been no Jews living in Arabia since Mohammad, or TranJordan since 1925.  )

------

In an article in the London-based Al-Sharq Al-Awsat, Egyptian journalist Suleiman Gouda writes with nostalgia about the Jewish presence that once existed in the Arab countries. Noting that Bahrain recently saw its first Jewish wedding in 52 years, he uses this as an opportunity to express his views on Jews from Arab countries, on normalization with Israel and on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Mentioning that this wedding was momentous not only because it was the first Jewish wedding in Bahrain in over a century, but also because the groom was the son of Houda Noono, Bahrain's former ambassador in Washington, he states that Jews in high-ranking positions used to be a fairly common phenomenon in Arab countries. This is perfectly natural, he says, because Jews are citizens of these countries, no different from other citizens.  

According to Gouda, the reversal in the attitude towards the Jews in Arab countries was caused by Israel's policy, and that today there is confusion between a Jew, namely a follower of the monotheistic religion of Judaism, and an Israeli Jew, who espouses a political ideology that harms the rights of the Palestinian people. Stating that the true homeland of the Arab Jews is not Israel but rather the Arab countries in which they were born and raised, he contends that social pluralism is a source of strength and not a source of weakness.    

Gouda notes that the UAE, Bahrain, Sudan and Morocco established diplomatic ties with Israel only after clarifying that this was meant to serve the Palestinian cause rather than harm it, and that they expected Israel to find a serious solution to this issue –- which may cause other Arab countries to establish ties with Israel.

(full article online)









						Egyptian Journalist On Jewish Wedding In Bahrain: The Jewish Citizens Of Arab Countries Are Loyal And Have Equal Rights; Pluralism Is A Source Of Social Strength, Not Weakness
					

In an article in the London-based Al-Sharq Al-Awsat, Egyptian journalist Suleiman Gouda writes with nostalgia about the Jewish presence that once existed in the Arab countries. No




					www.memri.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

> Jeremy Sharon’s excellent overview of the Temple Mount situation at present should have recalled four background essentials for a fuller understanding of the issue.
> 
> Firstly, the sanctified Jewish “Temple Mount” area is smaller than the Muslim al-Haram al-Sharif, and Jews do not seek to enter Muslim buildings. There is enough room for Muslims, Jews and Christians to pray without “invading” another’s territory.
> 
> The second is that Jewish prayer is recognized as a basic right by decisions of the High Court of Justice based on the 1967 Law for the Preservation of Holy Places. Prayer is not illegal.
> 
> Third, the status quo of 1967 is not upheld by the Muslim Wakf, which has built three new mosques within the compound, destroyed historical and archaeological artifacts and altered administrative customs.
> 
> Fourth, Jordan, which is responsible for the (Jerusalem) Wakf Islamic religious trust and funds it, refuses to fulfill its obligations as per the 1994 Peace Treaty with Israel. Article 9 reads: “Each Party will provide freedom of access to places of religious and historical significance... The Parties will act together to promote interfaith relations among the three monotheistic religions, with the aim of working towards religious understanding, moral commitment, freedom of religious worship, and tolerance and peace.” Even the positioning of surveillance cameras that could help prevent violence at the Temple Mount was sabotaged by Jordan.





> Palestinians chanting "Khaybar, Khaybar O Jews, the army of Mohammed will return" outside Yusufiyeh Cemetery in a call to violence against Jews in “protest” of the gardening work being done next to the cemetery. Protesters also violently attacked police
> 
> pic.twitter.com/aIKETPMMkW
> — Emily Schrader - ????? ?????? (@emilykschrader) October 29, 2021









__





						Letter to the Editor Re: Temple Mount
					

Jerusalem Post Weekend Magazine, Otober 29, 2021 Jeremy Sharon’s excellent overview of the Temple Mount situation  at present should have re...




					myrightword.blogspot.com


----------



## Mindful

The authors, in their zeal to pound a Zionist square peg through a settler-colonial round hole, frantically twist the meaning of colonialism and impose an arbitrary cut-off point in its application so as to exclude Jewish grievances from its ambit. After all, how can a population be guilty of colonialism in a land it originated in and were displaced from… as a result of colonialism? It’s not possible, and the authors themselves know this. Otherwise, they would never have gone to such lengths to rewrite history.









						On The Theatrics Of Inversion: How Indigenous People Became ‘Settlers’
					

From the blog of Dani Ishai Behan at The Times of Israel




					blogs.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Mindful




----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> It takes no courage for you to follow only what Muslim, Arab or any other Jew hating source you can get a hold , whether you have visited Israel, or not.
> 
> Looks more like you did not go to Israel and meet all the Arabs there who were happy they were living in an Independent Israel.
> 
> Did you visit Gaza under Egyptian control?  Or "The West Bank" under Jordanian control at that time?  Needless to say there were no Jews there at the time, as all of them had been expelled in 1920 and 1948.
> 
> But I will let Rylah, who is more knowledgable about these history, to straighten it out.



Yes. I spent time in East Jerusalem and the West Bank.. Usually my driver was Muslim and my guide Christian.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> The Temple was destroyed 2000 years ago. Its not Jewish anymore.. You have all of Palestine to excavate now.



Is there an expiration date,
or a required process after which
a place is declared "not Muslim anymore"?


----------



## Mindful

surada said:


> Yes. I spent time in East Jerusalem and the West Bank.. Usually my driver was Muslim and my guide Christian.



And mine was a Jewish Israeli.


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> Is there an expiration date,
> or a required process after which
> a place is declared "not Muslim anymore"?



Its been Muslim for 1300 years and they are still there. Why don't you all build your own temple nearby? Will you return to animal sacrifices?


----------



## Mindful

surada said:


> Its been Muslim for 1300 years and they are still there. Why don't you all build your own temple nearby? Will you return to animal sacrifices?


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> Its been Muslim for 1300 years and they are still there. Why don't you all build your own temple nearby? Will you return to animal sacrifices?


Depends, you tell me...

I'm simply trying to apply your "no longer Jewish" argument...
Say I take Mecca, when does it expire to be "no longer Muslim"?


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> Depending.
> 
> I'm simply trying to apply your "no longer Jewish" argument...
> Say I take Mecca, when does it expire to be "no longer Muslim"?



Like when will the Vatican cease to be Catholic? Stupid never stops.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> Like when will the Vatican cease to be Catholic? Stupid never stops.



That's the question, you say the Temple Mount is "no longer Jewish"
but  when Muslims take the Vatican it remains intact...

So in case the Brahmans, 1/3 of world's population,
likely take Mecca is it "no longer Muslim"?


----------



## Mindful

Pipe Organs in Synagogues — Pride and Polemics. (See pix and access an article and music).​Having an organ in a synagogue is a fairly recent innovation, related to the emancipation of the Jews and spread of reform Judaism in the 19th century. 

The introduction of a pipe organ into a synagogue sometimes sparked heated polemics. Still, some of the grandest synagogues built at that time (and later) include organs in their design — we post some pictures below.



Organ in the Benfeld, France synagogue. Photo: Consistoire Israelite du Bas Rhin
The ethnomusicologist Hervé Roten, the director of the European Institute of Jewish Music, presented a fascinating paper on the place of the organ in Jewish tradition at a recent conference marking the 10th anniversary of Orgue en France, an association dedicated to all aspects of the 8,000 pipe organs in the country.









						Pipe Organs in Synagogues — Pride and Polemics. (See pix and access an article and music)
					

Having an organ in a synagogue is a fairly recent innovation, related to the emancipation of the Jews and spread of reform Judaism in the 19th century.  The introduction of a pipe organ into a synagogue sometimes sparked heated polemics.



					jewish-heritage-europe.eu


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> That's the question, you say the Temple Mount is "no longer Jewish"
> but  when Muslims take the Vatican it remains intact...
> 
> So in case the Brahmans, 1/3 of world's population,
> likely take Mecca is it "no longer Muslim"?



You sure are keen on tking property from others. Why don't you just build another temple near the Mosque?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Yes. I spent time in East Jerusalem and the West Bank.. Usually my driver was Muslim and my guide Christian.


I am curious as to what their worries may have been at the time?

Could they request the Jordanian government anything they needed?  Were they free to come and go and get what they needed from Jordan?

Did anyone discuss turning the West Bank into another State, separate from Jordan?

Did they have Jordanian passports if they wanted to travel abroad?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> You sure are keen on tking property from others. Why don't you just build another temple near the Mosque?


The whole Temple Mount is not the Mosque and it is not Muslim.

The Temple Mount is Judaism's holiest place.

Is there a reason why Islam cannot respect it for what it has always been, Judaism's holiest place?  Jews have always returned to it.  They never forgot it.

Other people's having conquered it does not diminish its importance to Judaism.

Even the Caliph who re opened Jerusalem to the Jews understood its significance to the Jewish people.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> The whole Temple Mount is not the Mosque and it is not Muslim.
> 
> The Temple Mount is Judaism's holiest place.
> 
> Is there a reason why Islam cannot respect it for what it has always been, Judaism's holiest place?  Jews have always returned to it.  They never forgot it.
> 
> Other people's having conquered it does not diminish its importance to Judaism.
> 
> Even the Caliph who re opened Jerusalem to the Jews understood its significance to the Jewish people.



The Romans destroyed it in 70 AD .. and by the time Omar got there in 637 AD is was the city dump.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Romans destroyed it in 70 AD .. and by the time Omar got there in 637 AD is was the city dump.


Are you actually going to disregard the respect Omar showed the Jewish people by re opening Jerusalem to them?

He did not have to do it at all.  But he did.  Out of respect.

Apparently, as long as the Jews did not look for sovereignty over their homeland, some respect was left to allow them ....sometimes.....to pray at their wall.

But respect for their 3rd holiest site is something I continue not to find when it comes to Muslims on the Temple Mount.



Why do they play soccer and have picnics on the Temple Mount ?  Would that be allowed at their holiest site in Arabia?



Apparently, to Muslims, the Temple Mount IS a dump.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Are you actually going to disregard the respect Omar showed the Jewish people by re opening Jerusalem to them?
> 
> He did not have to do it at all.  But he did.  Out of respect.
> 
> Apparently, as long as the Jews did not look for sovereignty over their homeland, some respect was left to allow them ....sometimes.....to pray at their wall.
> 
> But respect for their 3rd holiest site is something I continue not to find when it comes to Muslims on the Temple Mount.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do they play soccer and have picnics on the Temple Mount ?  Would that be allowed at their holiest site in Arabia?
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently, to Muslims, the Temple Mount IS a dump.



I know Omar invited the Jews to return to Jerusalem which was the right thing to do.

The Jews didn't pray at the wall of Fortress Antonia until the 1500s.

What's wrong with kids playing soccer?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> I know Omar invited the Jews to return to Jerusalem which was the right thing to do.
> 
> The Jews didn't pray at the wall of Fortress Antonia until the 1500s.
> 
> What's wrong with kids playing soccer?


How many holy places allow soccer, picnics, etc.

The Holiest Muslim site in Arabia does not.

When that site allows any Muslim to play soccer and have picnics, etc, then.......Muslims should be allowed to do the same at the Temple Mount. 

It is no different with the Vatican.  No one plays soccer or has picnics there.

There is a reason for it.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> How many holy places allow soccer, picnics, etc.
> 
> The Holiest Muslim site in Arabia does not.
> 
> When that site allows any Muslim to play soccer and have picnics, etc, then.......Muslims should be allowed to do the same at the Temple Mount.
> 
> It is no different with the Vatican.  No one plays soccer or has picnics there.
> 
> There is a reason for it.



Oh they have picnics and soccer and even Boy Scouts in Mecca.

Where to go for lunch in the Vatican?
Once you are in the museum, you don't have a fixed time to depart (unlike the Borghese Gallery), so you could have lunch in the courtyard restaurant and then visit the museum. Your best bet is the Starbucks Cafe in the Vatican if you decide to eat in the Vatican at all. Wouldn't waste my money at the others.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Oh they have picnics and soccer and even Boy Scouts in Mecca.
> 
> Where to go for lunch in the Vatican?
> Once you are in the museum, you don't have a fixed time to depart (unlike the Borghese Gallery), so you could have lunch in the courtyard restaurant and then visit the museum. Your best bet is the Starbucks Cafe in the Vatican if you decide to eat in the Vatican at all. Wouldn't waste my money at the others.


Muslims are allowed to play soccer, etc at the Hajj?

I am not seeing places to eat IN Vatican City, but around it.





And I believe that there is a difference between the Vatican, which has plenty of places to eat outside of it, or at its Museums, and the Temple Mount which does not have places to eat inside it.

Is there not?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Muslims are allowed to play soccer, etc at the Hajj?
> 
> I am not seeing places to eat IN Vatican City, but around it.
> 
> View attachment 559282
> 
> 
> 
> And I believe that there is a difference between the Vatican, which has plenty of places to eat outside of it, or at its Museums, and the Temple Mount which does not have places to eat inside it.
> 
> Is there not?



Hajj means pilgrimage.


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to “direct orders and instructions” from PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, the PA has established over 100 Palestinian embassies around the world. [Official PA TV News, Oct. 23, 2021]

One such embassy is located in Tunisia. When staff and visitors arrive they are met with a huge monument with the PA’s map of “Palestine” – the version that erases all of Israel:






[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Oct. 23, 2021]

This is no surprise since the PA displays and promotes this map in all contexts possible as exposed again and again by Palestinian Media Watch. The message of the map is, of course, that Israel has no right to exist and that the goal of the PA is sovereignty over the entire area.

Ahmad Assaf, General Supervisor of the Official PA Media and General Supervisor of Fatah-run Awdah TV, alluded to this vision when he mentioned that “Palestine’s symbols” are “in every corner” of the embassy, so that visitors can “connect them immediately with what is happening in occupied Palestine” :

(full article online)









						New PA embassy in Tunisia displays huge map of “Palestine” erasing Israel | PMW Analysis
					

The message of the map is, of course, that Israel has no right to exist and that the goal of the PA is sovereignty over the entire area.




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Hajj means pilgrimage.


Right, and no one plays soccer or has picnic inside that area.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Right, and no one plays soccer or has picnic inside that area.



There are three stadiums in Mecca.

Al Khaldiah Stadiom
Stadium/arena, Soccer
شارع عبدالله عريف, مكة المكرمة
DIRECTIONS
King Abdulaziz Sports City
3 Foursquare tips · Stadium/arena
Makkah Highway, Makkah
DIRECTIONS
Al Fursan Playground
1 Foursquare tip · Stadium/arena, Soccer
مكة المكرمة


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> There are three stadiums in Mecca.
> 
> Al Khaldiah Stadiom
> Stadium/arena, Soccer
> شارع عبدالله عريف, مكة المكرمة
> DIRECTIONS
> King Abdulaziz Sports City
> 3 Foursquare tips · Stadium/arena
> Makkah Highway, Makkah
> DIRECTIONS
> Al Fursan Playground
> 1 Foursquare tip · Stadium/arena, Soccer
> مكة المكرمة


Mecca is a city.

I am talking about the religious area where people do pilgrimage during Ramadan.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Mecca is a city.
> 
> I am talking about the religious area where people do pilgrimage during Ramadan.



Spare me.. You don't know anything about Arabia or Ramadan.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> You sure are keen on tking property from others.


That's interesting.
Do you feel it's "talking property from others"
when I apply your own logic to Muslim and Christian sites?

Because frankly, what you communicate limits the argument to one response - do Islam to Muslims.



surada said:


> Why don't you just build another temple near the Mosque?



Even better several Noahide centers in downtown Mecca,
to help Muslims finally clean it from idols. What do you think?

Now to the point, I don't think you realize the magnitude of Jerusalem and the third Temple.
For one, because the Temple Mount is already divided between tribal lots, the border between
Binyamin and Jehudah goes right through the Holly of Hollies.  And even among the liberal secular
circles, the architects work on an entire reconstruction of the city, as well extending the city to have
its own port. For it has to contain the entire people, B"H now even the Plaza is too small for holidays.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Spare me.. You don't know anything about Arabia or Ramadan.


Then you would not have any problems sharing videos or photos of Muslims playing soccer or having picnics inside the Hajj area.

Or anyone playing soccer or having picnics inside the courtyard right in front of the windows where the Popes usually show themselves to speak to the public.


----------



## Sixties Fan

No Muslim playing soccer or having a picnic at the Hajj.
They would not dare.









						In Pictures: Hajj in Mecca during the COVID pandemic
					

The Hajj once drew some 2.5 million Muslims, but this year just 60,000 people are being allowed to perform it.




					www.aljazeera.com


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> That's the question, you say the Temple Mount is "no longer Jewish"
> but  when Muslims take the Vatican it remains intact...
> 
> So in case the Brahmans, 1/3 of world's population,
> likely take Mecca is it "no longer Muslim"?



The Muslims aren't going to take the Vatican.. The Jews abandoned the destroyed temple for 600 years.. Are you crazy?

Why would the Brahmans take Mecca?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Muslims aren't going to take the Vatican.. The Jews abandoned the destroyed temple for 600 years.. Are you crazy


The Jews "abandoned" the Temple?

The Romans, and then the Christian Byzantine,  kept the Jews from going into Jerusalem so that they would not gather agains against the Romans as a people, knowing that Jerusalem is what kept the Jews united.

Abandoned, indeed.

Do not insult Omar with your rewriting of history.

He knew it much better than you to the point of caring that the Jews would have access to their holy city again.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Muslims aren't going to take the Vatican.. The Jews abandoned the destroyed temple for 600 years.. Are you crazy?
> 
> Why would the Brahmans take Mecca?


Some Muslims are dreaming of the Vatican.



			https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1057610X.2020.1776952
		


If they work hard enough, who knows one century or another


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## rylah

surada said:


> The Muslims aren't going to take the Vatican.. The Jews abandoned the destroyed temple for 600 years.. Are you crazy?
> 
> Why would the Brahmans take Mecca?



That's not what the Islamists openly say.
And Brahmans are 1/3 of world's population.

When they take Mecca for 600 years,
should they as well claim Muslims abandoned it?

I'm asking you to give us a list of things that define
what you call 'abandoned', that we should equally apply.
If not, why not in places taken by Islamists apply Islam to Muslims?


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Some Muslims are dreaming of the Vatican.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1057610X.2020.1776952
> 
> 
> 
> If they work hard enough, who knows one century or another



ISIS? You are listening to ISIS? Hahahaaha.


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## surada

rylah said:


> That's not what the Islamists openly say.
> Brahmans are 1/3 of the world's population.
> 
> When they take Mecca for 600 years,
> should they as well claim Muslims abandoned it?
> 
> I'm asking you to give me a list of things that define
> what you call 'abandoned', that we should equally apply.



What Islamists?


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> ISIS? You are listening to ISIS? Hahahaaha.


I was merely posting what has been reported about ISIS wanting to conquer the Vatican, of course......they would be "conquering" Christianity.

Ha, ha ha


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## rylah

surada said:


> What Islamists?



The greedy Muslim supremacists occupying the Temple Mount,
seeking exclusive domination over the entire Middle East...and then some...
Can you suggest a more just response to this vile ideology than - apply Islam to Muslims?


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Electricity

A shop owner laments that “Power cuts are a big problem [in Gaza]. We only have four hours of electricity a day.” Unfortunately, at no point does the documentary tackle why that is. Gaza has three sources of electricity: (1) a single power plant that runs on diesel, (2) the Israeli Electric Corporation (IEC), and (3) Egypt. The so-called “Gaza electricity crisis” is the result of the ongoing conflict between Hamas and the PA. In April 2017, after the powerplant ran out of fuel, electricity supplied by the IEC was essential for maintaining the power grid. However, the PA announced they would halt all electricity payments to the IEC, leading to increased power cuts across the Strip. Why did the PA make this decision? To increase pressure on Hamas in advance of the Palestinian elections.

Economy and Unemployment

A thread running throughout the documentary is the financial plight of the Palestinian people, especially the youth. As one medic puts it, “For more than ten years, these young people have had no prospect for the future, they have no hope.” Poverty and unemployment are rampant throughout Gaza, but the documentary never addresses why that is. Moreover, the millions of US dollars in humanitarian aid sent to help the Palestinian people in Gaza is never addressed. Maybe the reason for this omission lies in the inconvenient fact that these funds get siphoned away by the “freely elected” Hamas government who use them for personal enrichment, to build terror-attack tunnels and rockets.

Israel and False Claims of “Occupation”

“Young people are ready to sacrifice everything for their freedom. As long as the territory is occupied, they will not stop.” Freedom from and occupied by who? The claim that Israel “occupies” Gaza is a political smear with no basis in fact. A blockade is enforced by Israel and Egypt to protect their respective populations from terrorism. But there is no Israeli presence, military or civilian, in Gaza. What is holding Palestinians imprisoned is not the blockade, which is only a symptom for a much larger problem: Hamas. Maybe the energy of these young people would be better used ousting the Hamas government that is using them as pawns in their continued assault on Israel.

The 2014 Gaza War and Casualties

The 50-day war between Hamas and Israel is highly prominent throughout the documentary. Often, it’s framed as a turning point in the Israel-Gaza conflict. At no point, however, is any context given as to why it happened.

The war started due to continuous rocket fire and the threat of Hamas “militants tunnelling under the border” prompting Israel to retaliate in the hopes of halting the assaults. No one can deny that the war was devastating, and the Palestinians in Gaza felt the brunt of it. However, omitting the cause misleads the public. Every war between Hamas and Israel has been instigated by Hamas, every time.

In the documentary, the only facts we are given about the war are the casualties incurred by both sides. “Gaza particularly suffered during the 50-day war between it and Israel. More than 2,200 people were killed, including 500 children. On Israel’s side, 66 soldiers and 6 civilians were killed during the clashes.” The implication here is that the disparity is due to Israel’s carrying out a disproportional retaliation and increased power.

It’s not that simple. The higher loss of life on the Palestinian side is strongly linked to two factors that have nothing to do with Israel’s response. Primarily, Israel has invested millions of dollars to ensure the safety of its citizens through the Iron Dome missile interceptor and an extensive network of bomb shelters. Without these safety measures, the rockets fired by Hamas would have inflicted mass casualties of Israeli civilians. Most egregious is Hamas’ use of civilians as human shields. They purposefully place military headquarters and weapon caches “inside hospitals, mosques, and schools”. If the Hamas government used the millions in humanitarian aid to protect their citizens instead of putting them in danger there would be no casualties on either side, military or civilian.

Where do we go from here?

The purpose of the documentary was to hand the mic to Palestinian civilians and allow them to tell their stories. Of course, there is value in that. Israelis do not want Gazan Palestinians to suffer. Watching the scenes unfolding in RDI’s documentary is heart-wrenching, but the blame is often misplaced or left up for interpretation. The Palestinians in Gaza need to be freed from their true oppressor: Hamas. As one driver stated, “if Hamas did not exist, Palestine’s problems would be solved.” Until then, any attempts to improve the lives of Gazans are doomed to fail; Hamas will continue its assaults on Israeli civilians, and Israel will have no choice but to retaliate in defense.

(full article online)









						RDI diffuse un documentaire sur Gaza dépourvu de contexte / RDI Airs Gaza Documentary Devoid of Context
					

English version appended below. Le 19 octobre, RDI a diffusé le documentaire « Gaza » dans le cadre de sa




					honestreporting.ca


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## Sixties Fan

Supreme Court Justice Dafna Barak-Erez proposed a compromise according to which the homes would be transferred to Jewish hands, while the Arabs living in them would be declared protected tenants who may not be evicted. According to the proposed arrangement, each Arab family in the neighborhood would deposit an annual rent of NIS 2,400 ($766) in the account of the Nahalat Shimon Hatzadik company’s attorney, payments to be deposited for each year in advance. That’s $64 a month for a home in Jerusalem, folks – and they didn’t want to accept it at first, because it meant recognizing that Jews owned those homes.

Those lucky, lucky protected Arab tenants will pay the legal expenses in the two previous courts in the amount of NIS 30,000 ($9,576.18). It should cost them something – although I won’t hold my breath.
In the hours leading up to the court hearing, officials from Sheikh Jarrah and from outside the neighborhood were trying to persuade the families to revoke their consent to those $64 a month homes. Elements in the Palestinian Authority, including the Minister for Jerusalem Affairs, also spoke with representatives of the families in an attempt to persuade them to withdraw from the agreement and continue the struggle.

By the way, the squatter families’ lawyer, Sami Arshid, released a video in which he argued that the arrangement that the families would pay rent to Nahalat Shimon does not constitute an admission by the families that they recognize the association’s ownership of the homes, nor does it rule out a future claim by the families on the property.

Which is to say that some Arab lawyers have access to better hashish than others.


*History* (*Understanding the Sheikh Jarrah/Shimon Hatzadik Property Dispute*, by Avi Bell)


The legal rights of the parties themselves were resolved decades ago, in favor of the property owners. The owners in these disputes acquired their rights through an uninterrupted chain of transactions from predecessors in title in the 19th century. These legal rights were acquired under Ottoman law, and remained good through all different government regimes since then (British Mandatory, Jordanian occupation and purported annexation, and Israeli). No one seriously disputes the validity of the transactions through which the current owners acquired rights from their predecessors in title.

The tenants in these disputes acquired their leasehold rights through a chain from the Jordanian Custodian of Enemy Property in the 1950s. Their rights as leaseholders (not owners) were reaffirmed in several court rulings culminating in 1982 when Israel’s civil courts issued rulings adopting settlement agreements between the leaseholders’ predecessors in title and the owners.

(full article online)









						Update: After Visit by PA Officials: 7 Arab Sheikh Jarrah Families No Longer Accept Court’s Compromise
					

They'll get a $64 a month home in Jerusalem, and they rejected it at first, because it meant recognizing that Jews owned those homes.




					www.jewishpress.com


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## rylah

6 Bedouins Busted While Digging for Gold Treasure at Archeological Site
					

The Israel Antiquities Authority’s special Unit for the Prevention of Antiquities Robbery captured a squad of six antiquities robbers at the Beer Kalach site in the south over the weekend.The r




					www.jewishpress.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

It might seem absurd to those that do not see what is going on, but the pro-Palestinian movement probably cannot believe its good fortune. They can steal any idea, make any accusation, and global antisemitism will do the rest of the work for them. Because their fight is against the Jews, their empty smears all go viral. What we see in the anti-Israel movement today is the result of decades of co-opting causes, historical revisionism and piggybacking on the very real suffering of others. Basically – if there is a bad thing happening in the world – the pro-Palestinian movement stole the idea to use it against the Jews.

Here are some of the key examples:

The theft of Apartheid​Apartheid was a system of legislation that upheld segregationist policies against non-white citizens of South Africa. White South Africans inflicted a brutal racist system upon over 80% of the population – tens of millions of people – just because of the colour of their skin:

The theft of the Holocaust​This is one of the most insidious appropriations of suffering that has ever been undertaken. The pro-Palestinian movement has stolen the systematic destruction of the Jewish people. There are two strands to the way this was done.

The theft of genocide​There is no end to the pro-Palestinian attempts to place themselves at the top of every discussion. Since September 2000, the outbreak of the Second Intifada, there have been about 10,000 Palestinian deaths. Most of those who died were engaged in violence at the time, and almost every single one inside an episode of violence that the Palestinian leaders chose to start. It is a disgraceful piece of historical revisionism for the word ‘genocide’ to be so twisted as to describe the death of terrorists.

The theft of ethnic cleansing​You do not have to look far to see current victims of ethnic cleansing. The Tigrayans, Uyghurs, Rohingya, Kurds and Yazidis are just some of the world’s communities currently experiencing barbaric episodes. In the case of the Kurds, it is an ethnic cleansing in which they have been attacked by multiple states in conflicts spanning decades and have even suffered chemical weapon attacks.

The theft of victims of colonialism​Not every part of colonialism was for the worst, but some of the actions in places such as Algeria, India, Kenya, Peru and Mexico created inexcusable acts of horror.

Millions of lives were lost in the Congo horrors – 80% of the Herero were wiped out in Namibia -and if we seek to remember some of the ills of colonialism, there are few better examples than these two. But the pro-Palestinian movement doesn’t want you to learn about real episodes from history – and it belittles the suffering by co-opting it for themselves:

The theft of the concentration camps​In Xinjiang, in China’s far-west, 100,000s, if not millions of people, have been herded into concentration camps as part of a ‘re-education drive’. It is a place in which Muslims are deprived of their freedom, pushed through sterilisation programs and forced to eat pork. But leftist human rights activists do not want to focus on the suffering of these people – instead they claim that Hamas run Gaza is the largest and most famous ‘concentration camp’ in the world today.

The theft of the suffering freedom fighters​Jimmy Lai is sitting in prison because he dared to speak out over China’s growing suppression in Hong Kong. In Burma, Iran, Saudi, Syria, Pakistan, and in fact everywhere that freedoms are suppressed by brutal regimes – there are brave people who are willing to sacrifice everything in the fight from freedom.

Theft of LGBTQ suffering​The LGBT community in much of the Middle East, Africa and large swathes of Asia suffers from heavy persecution. The death penalty for homosexual behaviour still exists in some states – and in the PA and Hamas controlled areas- this persecution is so rife, that gay Palestinians often end up fleeing to Israel for safety. The pro-Palestinian movement actually uses Israel’s gay friendly environment as a means of attacking it with accusations of ‘pink-washing’:

The theft of racism​Racism is a perpetual scourge of society that is responsible for untold suffering and countless deaths. The anti-racist struggle was another area the pro-Palestinian movement chose to overrun:

The theft of the suffering of victims of fascism​The Jews know all about the horrors of fascism. But no – instead of remembering the victims of actual fascism, the pro-Palestinian camp steals their thunder too by trying to label the only free society in the Middle East – a fascist state. Thus ridiculing the term and demeaning the millions who suffered through Europe’s darkest hours:

Cultural Appropriation​Through the eyes of its detractors, Israel is seen as a state of demons. Everything it does is sinister. Cultural appropriation is seen as a by-product of imperialism, capitalism, and oppression, so of course the haters all point their fingers at Israel when discussing the subject. This accusation is normally seen when discussing Israeli food:

Land grabbers​Turkey occupies parts of Cyprus and Syria. Morocco occupies Western Sahara and land grabbing Russia occupies parts of Ukraine and Georgia. None of these count for anything. China occupied and annexed Tibet – and has since slaughtered over 20% of the population. In Tibet today there is no freedom at all – but nobody cares. The only ‘land grabbing’ anyone is allowed to talk about is when the accusation is directed towards Israel:

The theft of the evicted people​In Isingwu, members of the Enugu community have just had their homes burnt. Nigerian soldiers simply swept through the town and evicted them. The minority Hazaras in Afghanistan are being forcibly evicted by the Taliban in order to hand their land over to Taliban supporters. In many nations, which are ruled by force and oppression – people have few, if any, property rights at all.

(full article online)









						How the Palestinians stole the suffering, of well - just about everyone
					

The pro-Palestinian movement co-opted everyone else's suffering. They have stolen the world's moral compass - and with it the world's soul.




					david-collier.com


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## Sixties Fan

Two Australian politicians from Australia’s two major political parties – one of them Australia’s former Ambassador to Israel and Government backbencher Dave Sharma – have embarked on a trip to fantasyland in a rare show of bipartisan solidarity that has nothing to do with Australian domestic policy – but involves the self-titled “Palestinian People”.

Sharma (Liberal Party) seconded a motion by Chris Hayes (Australian Labor Party) which includes the following paragraphs:

That this House:

(1) notes that 29 November 2021 is the International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People as declared by the United Nations in 1977;


(2) recognises the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people, including their right to self determination and a future built on peace, dignity, justice and security;

Their hyperlinking of “Palestinian People” clarifies who these two politicians are talking about: 

The Palestinian people (Arabic: الشعب الفلسطيني‎, ash-sha‘b al-Filasṭīnī), also referred to as Palestinians (Arabic: الفلسطينيون‎, al-Filasṭīniyyūn; Hebrew: פָלַסְטִינִים‎) or Palestinian Arabs (Arabic: الفلسطينيين العرب‎, al-Filasṭīniyyīn al-ʿarab), are an ethnonational group[31][32][33][34][35][36][37] comprising the modern descendants of the peoples who have lived in Palestinecontinuously over the centuries and who today are largely culturally and linguistically Arab.[38][39][40][41][42][43][44][45]

This definition is fabricated - ignoring history, geography and demography by falsely claiming the existence of a Palestinian People with roots purportedly going back 3000 years ago when the Jewish People entered the Promised Land (the region was not called Palestine until the conquering Romans coined the name in the first century for the land of the Jews) – rather than to the year 1964 - when the term “Palestinians” was first defined.

History is clear:


The League of Nations 1922 Mandate for Palestine only recognised the Arab inhabitants of Palestine as forming part of “the existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine” whose civil and religious rights irrespective of race or religion were to be protected without any political rights to self-determination.


The 1947 United Nations Partition Plan only spoke of two states – one Jewish, the other Arab – not a Palestinian State.


The Palestine Liberation Organisation – the sole spokesman for the Palestinian Arabs recognised by the Arab League since 1974 – defined the term “Palestinians” for the first time in history in its founding 1964 Charter:
Article 1. Palestine is an Arab homeland bound by strong national ties to the rest of the Arab Countries and which together form the large Arab homeland.

Article 2. Palestine with its boundaries at the time of the British Mandate is a regional indivisible unit.

Article 3. The Palestinian Arab people has the legitimate right to its homeland and is an inseparable part of the Arab Nation. It shares the sufferings and aspirations of the Arab Nation and its struggle for freedom, sovereignty, progress and unity.

Article 6. The Palestinians are those Arab citizens who were living normally in Palestine up to 1947, whether they remained or were expelled. Every child who was born to a Palestinian parent after this date whether in Palestine or outside is a Palestinian.

But Palestine’s boundaries at the time of the British Mandate (1920-1948) included Transjordan – 78% of the Mandate territory – until Transjordan became independent in 1946. 

Following the invasion and conquest of Judea, Samaria and East Jerusalem by Transjordan in 1948: Transjordan was renamed Jordan in 1949 and unified with these conquered territories on 24 April 1950 until their loss to Israel in 1967 .

Two States exist in former Palestine today: one Jewish - called Israel – the other - Arab - called Jordan. 

The key to achieving peace is Jordan’s return to those areas of Judea and Samaria that are heavily-populated by Arabs - restoring Jordanian citizenship to its Arab residents as existed between 1950 and 1988.

Sharma and Hayes hold different opinions – but their opinions - based on fiction rather than fact – are nothing more than meaningless mumbo jumbo made by grandstanding politicians.

(full article online)









						The key to peace: Israel and Jordan dividing Judea and Samaria
					

The 1947 United Nations Partition Plan only spoke of two areas – one Jewish, the other Arab – not a word about Palestinians. Op-ed.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## RoccoR

RE: The Right To Destroy Jewish History
SUBTOPIC: Credibility
※→. Sixties Fan, et al,



Sixties Fan said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

If anything, we should let these speakers talk all they want.  It goes to their credibility when making other irrational statements.

Just when I think that I've heard the most ignorant statement ever, someone like this arrives on the scene.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


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## Sixties Fan

Alien political control? Even if you consider the territories occupied, it is the job of the occupier to maintain political control over the area! Let alone the fact that Jews were in the Land before anyone heard of Palestinians or Muslims.

Settlements - groups of buildings! - are responsible for human rights violations? 

Those buildings are responsible for "racial and ethnic discrimination?" Are Palestinians a different race than Jews? 

Finally, these "experts" are claiming that Jewish settlers who want to live in their ancestral homeland really don't want to live there. No, their entire purpose is to "rupture the relationship between a native people and its territory." Yes, they move to these villages and towns because they hate Palestinians. 
Human Rights Watch chief Ken Roth tweeted an article he loved:
-------

Here is an example where the people who spout off such nonsense would deny all day that they are antisemitic. But listen to what they are saying: Jews have no historic, emotional or legal ties to the land of the Torah. Not only that, but the only purpose of their wanting to live in the Biblical towns of Bet El, Shiloh, Kiryat Arba/Hebron and others is because they want to hurt Arabs. That is how hateful these Jews are - according to "UN experts."

Denying Jewish history is antisemitism. Denying a Jewish link to the land that Jews have prayed to return to for 2000 years is antisemitism. Ascribing evil motives to Jews that have no basis in reality is antisemitism. 

The UN should apologize to all Jews for this sickening display of hate. But it is so ingrained in the mentality of the modern antisemites that they cannot even see it. 

(full article online)









						To the Jew-hating UN (and Ken Roth,) Jews are "aliens" in their historic lands
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## RoccoR

RE: The Right To Destroy Jewish History
SUBTOPIC: Credibility
※→. Sixties Fan, et al,



Sixties Fan said:


> The UN should apologize to all Jews for this sickening display of hate. But it is so ingrained in the mentality of the modern antisemites that they cannot even see it.


*(COMMENT)*

The UN is not actually a political body with a single goal and purpose.  It is a body of representatives that acts like sheep and sets the conditions that affect everything from an unenlightened political circus to how individual representatives behave—but that doesn’t mean it has any power to muscle states into its collective political hijinks and *buffoonery*.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


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## Sixties Fan

— Hirschhorn blamed Israel for the fact that Palestinian Arabs in Judea-Samaria have “no citizenship rights,” a smear which perpetuates the false image of Israel as a colonialist oppressor. The reason those Arabs are not Israeli citizens is that they previously chose Jordanian citizenship, and today they choose to be citizens of the Palestinian Authority. Israel is not depriving them of citizenship.

— Hirschhorn called Israel’s Nation-State law—which is supported by a wide range of Israelis from right to left and has been upheld by Israel’s Supreme Court— “the horrific Nation-State law.”

It’s one thing to express respectful disagreement with this or that Israeli law or policy. But to call the law declaring Israel a Jewish state “horrific”? It’s a “horror” that Israel wants to identify itself as Jewish? That kind of extremist language is deeply disturbing.

[To see Hirschhorn’s tweets for yourself, visit: ]

Prof. Hirschhorn has acknowledged in her tweets that Israel’s treatment of the Palestinian Arabs is not “completely parallel” to South African apartheid, and that “apartheid” should not be used as “a blanket term” concerning Israel (although her wording implies that she sees at least a partial parallel, which is a lie).

(full article online)









						ADL’s ‘Anti-hate’ Speaker Accused Israel of ‘Ethnic Cleansing’ | United with Israel
					

Sara Yael Hirschhorn doesn’t deserve to be speaking at ADL conferences against hate when she promotes so many false and hateful smears of Israel.




					unitedwithisrael.org


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## Sixties Fan

This poster pretty much went viral on Twitter.


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## Sixties Fan

Muslim media typically reports 40,000-50,000 visiting every Friday. Even during COVID there were tens of thousands visiting every week when it was open.

As far as I can tell, more Muslims visit Judaism's holiest site, under Jewish rule, on a typical Friday than ever visited even on Muslim holidays under Muslim rule, in history.

I have looked for any photo or description estimating the number of Muslims that visited the holy site even during Muslim holidays, and while some descriptions mention "thousands" of worshippers, never have I seen anyone report "tens of of thousands" as the site sees every single week nowadays.

A letter from a British resident of Jerusalem in the November 23, 1937 Manchester Guardian disputes the claim that 10,000 Muslims carried the Mufti around the Temple Mount by pointing out that only perhaps once a year does the Haram esh Sharif attract that many Muslims:





Only 13,000 Muslims lived in Jerusalem in 1922 and 40,000 in 1948 (compared to over 300,000 today) so 40,000 visitors would have been an astronomical figure to visit at any time under Muslim rule. 

Now, during Fridays in Ramadan, Israel allows some 200,000 Muslims to visit Judaism's most sacred spot. 

I am confident in my claim that more Muslims will visit the site today, on a typical Friday, walking past Israeli guards, than had ever visited at one time in the entire 1200 years of Muslim control of Jerusalem.

The contrast to how Muslims didn't allow Jews to visit the Temple Mount or the Cave of the Patriarchs at all under their rule couldn't be more striking. 

Never in history has there been as free access to holy sites for all religions than under Jewish rule,  yet earlier this week the UN again accused Israel of "racial and ethnic discrimination." 

We are truly living in 1984 where ignorance is strength.






(full article online)









						More Muslims are visiting Al Aqsa on a typical Friday under Jewish rule than ever visited under Muslim rule in history
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

There has long been a controversy about whether the large population growth of Arabs in Palestine that coincided with the beginning of Zionism was natural or the result of massive immigration.

The British officials at the time, and later demographers, insist there is no evidence of large Arab immigration. Some people, like Joan Peters and Fred Gottheil, bring evidence for such immigration from neighboring Arab countries to Palestine. Gottheil in particular showed that even within Palestine, the Arabs would move near where the Jews were concentrated, because the economic opportunities were coming from Jewish areas - and there is no reason to think that Arabs outside Palestine weren't similarly attracted to the booming economy that came from the Jews.

I thought that a comparison of Arab population growth in Palestine to that of its neighbors in Egypt and Syria would help shed light on this question. After all, if Palestine's Arab population growth was way faster than its neighbors in the north and the south, it sure sounds like something unique was happening with the Arabs in Palestine - and immigration is the most likely explanation, since there wouldn't be much of a cultural reason for a baby boom (and no contemporaneous descriptions of one that I am aware of.)

In fact, Palestine's population remained steady from the 16th century to the 19th. Only in the 19th century did it start to increase significantly. 

Here is my chart of population grown of Palestine, Egypt and Syria for the years that Palestine had censuses:





We can see that the Palestinian Arab population exploded at double the rate (480%)  of those of its neighboring countries Egypt (250%) and Syria (201%).. 

If the actual natural growth in Palestine would have mirrored that of Egypt and Syria, then that implies that nearly half of the Arabs living in Palestine in 1948 - over 600,000 - had immigrated since 1882.

If true, that means that half of today's "Palestinians'" ancestors lived in Palestine for fewer years than Israel has existed.









						Arab population growth in Palestine 1882-1947 double that of Egypt, Syria
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

In recent years, there has been a concerted attempt by antizionists to rewrite Mizrahi Jewish history and disconnect us from our identity, culture and homeland. 

The history of Jews in the Middle East and North Africa is rich, yet it is often omitted from the main discourse of Jewish history. Antizionists who rarely care about Mizrahi Jews take advantage of the lack of knowledge and try to rewrite our history for their own agenda. They are doing so by pushing a narrative of “Arab Jews” who were brought to Israel as second-class citizens just to have their “Arab culture” stripped away.

While you might find a handful of Mizrahi Jews today who do identify as “Arab Jews," the term itself is historically inaccurate and is rejected by the overwhelming majority of Mizrahi Jews. 

So, when did Jews become Arabs? Is it only because of Arab imperial rule that the Jewish communities of the Middle East and North Africa suddenly changed their ethnic identity? And what does it say about other indigenous groups who live in the region, such as the Assyrians, the Copts and the Amazigh tribes, who have struggled to maintain their unique identity under Islamic rule, and do not identify with the Arab culture.

The same logic should be applied to Jews, who under harsh conditions, preserved their indigenous culture and kept it alive in the Land of Israel and in the Diaspora.

An Al-Jazeera article published in 2017 falsely claimed Jews in Arab countries “spoke Arabic, ate the same foods as their Christian and Muslim compatriots, celebrated the same national events and traditions and lived by the same social protocols."

Truth be told, Jews in Arab and Muslim societies kept their Jewish identity while not consider themselves Arabs, but rather Iraqi-Jew, Moroccan-Jew,  Egyptian-Jew, etc. This distinction is made clear in early Islamic writings, which refer to the Jewish tribes of the Hejaz (Saudi Arabia) as foreigners, whereas the Christian Arab tribes were considered as fellow Arabs. 

For example, in Yemen, where my family spent the diaspora, Jews were prohibited from wearing their traditional headdress, because it was considered “too fancy”. They spoke a dialect of Judeo-Yemenite, which incorporated biblical Hebrew phrases and were prohibited from learning how to read and write in Arabic. Their cuisine was distinctly different from the Arab-Yemeni one, and they considered themselves nothing but Jewish.

The status of Jews under Islamic rule varied between different regions, but generally, they did not enjoy the same rights as their Arab neighbors and were often persecuted. When the State of Israel was established, those same Jews were not "Arab enough" to their neighbors to be spared from violence and expulsion. Even the Jews of Iraq, who somewhat managed to integrate into the local society, were the targets of a violent pogrom in 1941, which became known as the Farhud. 

(full article online)









						The invention of Arab Jews erases Mizrahi Jewish history
					

The history of Jews in the Middle East and North Africa is rich, yet it is often omitted from the main discourse of Jewish history.




					www.jpost.com


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## Sixties Fan

A 2021 webinar intended for K-12 teachers, published by the University of North Carolina (UNC) Center for Middle East and Islamic Studies, presented a map of the Middle East and Africa.

The map, however, erased Israel and replaced it with “Palestinian Occupied Territories.”







A flyer promoting the webinar said prominently at the top, “How to Teach About the Middle East and Get It Right!”

The webinar titled “Hip Hop and Women’s Voices in the Middle East and North Africa” discussed seven female hip hop artists from Morocco, UK/”Palestine”, Lebanon, Yemen, Iran, and Egypt.

Not a single Israeli artist was included.

An obvious omission is Eden Dersso, a highly regarded Israeli-Ethiopian hip hop artist, described in a Vogue profile as “captivating,” “provocative,” and “a sensation.”

At one point, the webinar presenter — Angela Williams from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign — spoke for more than six minutes while attendees looked at a slide saying “Free Palestine.”

The webinar moderator, Rima Hassouneh from the University of Michigan, has publicly supported an academic boycott of Israel.

The webinar featured an enthusiastically positive discussion of Shadia Mansour, a London-born Palestinian rapper. This is the same Mansour who wrote on Facebook, “Dear Israeli fan, Remember where you are and how you got there, you money hungry, water pipe stealing, illegal, irrelevant son of a b***h.”

Mansour also said on Facebook, “The only place Israel should exist is at an International War Crimes Tribunal.”

(full article online)









						UNC and Duke University Event Literally Erases Israel
					

Duke University. Photo: Ilyse Whitney / CC BY 2.0. A 2021 webinar intended for K-12 teachers, published by the University …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Tripadvisor fails to disclose that Kalia Kibbutz was established in the 1930’s but was destroyed by Transjordan in 1948 when it invaded and conquered Western Palestine. Residents of Kalia and nearby Kibbutz Beit HaArava – established in 1939 - fled by boat on 20 May 1948.

The area remained unpopulated save for a Jordanian military camp until lost by Jordan to Israel in the 1967 Six Day War. Kalia was re-established and resettled by Jews in 1972 - Beit HaArava similarly in 1996.

The UN and EU use of language denying Jews have any proprietary rights in Judea and Samaria is pointedly racist.

UN engagement in such reprehensible conduct in blatant violation of its own Charter explains why the UN has failed to end the 100 years old Arab-Jewish conflict. Palestinian Arab insistence on providing false information to airlines and others about "Palestinian territories" or the non-existent "State of Palestine" when referring to Israeli-populated land explains the rest.









						The UN and EU semantic war in Judea and Samaria backfires
					

EU and UN use of  'occupied Palestinian territories' is meant to deny any Israeli claims to the disputed land. Archaeology and history prove them wrong. Op-ed.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The decision of the Israeli authorities to make the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron accessible for the disabled has infuriated the Palestinian Authority. Just recently, a PA Presidential Committee for Church Affairs condemned the move saying that it would “harm the Ibrahimi Mosque”-  the name the Palestinians use for the site – and that the renovation is an attack on the exclusive  right of the Muslims to enter the site:



> “The [PA] presidential committee for church affairs in the State of Palestine condemned the recurring violations, crimes, and *acts of Judaization* that the occupation authorities are committing against the Ibrahimi Mosque … and the falsification of its Islamic and cultural nature by building an elevator for settlers as part of its declared plan to take control of it and strengthen its settlement in Hebron.
> In a statement issued by its President [and] Director-General of the Palestine National Fund (PNF) Ramzi Khouri yesterday, Friday [Aug. 13, 2021], the committee emphasized that *harming the Ibrahimi Mosque is an attack against the Muslims’ pure right to it*.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Aug. 14, 2021]



(full article online)









						When did making a religious and historical site disabled accessible became “Judaization”? | PMW Analysis
					

The decision of the Israeli authorities to make the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron accessible for the disabled has infuriated the Palestinian Authority




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arab media published a ridiculously antisemitic screed by Dr. Mustafa Youssef El Lidawi, who is upset at the idea of Jews praying on their holiest site, the Temple Mount.




> The prayer of the Jews in Al-Aqsa Mosque and its courtyards is not worship nor is it an approach to God Almighty, and it does not soften hearts, nor purify souls, nor transcend souls, nor purify people, nor create goodness, nor call for peace, nor indicate the goodness of its performer or the sincerity of the one who carries it. It does not contain fear, tranquility, or reverence, nor is it preceded by humility or forgiveness, nor relinquishment of guilt nor abstinence from disobedience, nor intentions for righteousness or resolves for honesty and endeavors for purity.
> 
> Rather, they are corrupt rites, hate chants, and prostitute chants, and they are malicious prayers and provocative movements, and deliberate quarrels and stubborn competition, sick souls, and malicious intentions.
> 
> They are also an expression of arrogance, contempt and lack of manners, and worship with loudness and immorality, which is not worthy of worshipers who stand before the Almighty God with reverence and submission, and with the humility of the sincere and the acceptance of the hidden, and the fertilization of the truthful, so you see them clapping their hands with joy and raising their judgment, and their loud voices have proved their arrogance. Repeatedly their prayers in Al-Aqsa Mosque, despite the knowledge of their senior judges, show that they intend to provoke and restrict the Palestinians, crowd out their prayers, and compete with them over their mosque, in preparation for their empowerment in it and their control over it, their exclusivity in it and their seizure of it, which is the goal they have been pursuing for years, upon which they work and plan.





> ... the Arabs and Muslims in all parts of the world wish to contribute to the defense of Al-Aqsa Mosque and protect it from the plots and deception of the Jews. Occupation, subject to its will and satisfied with its policy, so you see that it is silent about its practices, accepts its procedures, and does not object to the oppression, injustice and coercion it is doing to the Palestinian people.



(full article online)









						Arab news site: Jewish prayers on the Temple Mount are chants of prostitution
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## rylah




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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> There has long been a controversy about whether the large population growth of Arabs in Palestine that coincided with the beginning of Zionism was natural or the result of massive immigration.
> 
> The British officials at the time, and later demographers, insist there is no evidence of large Arab immigration. Some people, like Joan Peters and Fred Gottheil, bring evidence for such immigration from neighboring Arab countries to Palestine. Gottheil in particular showed that even within Palestine, the Arabs would move near where the Jews were concentrated, because the economic opportunities were coming from Jewish areas - and there is no reason to think that Arabs outside Palestine weren't similarly attracted to the booming economy that came from the Jews.
> 
> I thought that a comparison of Arab population growth in Palestine to that of its neighbors in Egypt and Syria would help shed light on this question. After all, if Palestine's Arab population growth was way faster than its neighbors in the north and the south, it sure sounds like something unique was happening with the Arabs in Palestine - and immigration is the most likely explanation, since there wouldn't be much of a cultural reason for a baby boom (and no contemporaneous descriptions of one that I am aware of.)
> 
> In fact, Palestine's population remained steady from the 16th century to the 19th. Only in the 19th century did it start to increase significantly.
> 
> Here is my chart of population grown of Palestine, Egypt and Syria for the years that Palestine had censuses:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We can see that the Palestinian Arab population exploded at double the rate (480%)  of those of its neighboring countries Egypt (250%) and Syria (201%)..
> 
> If the actual natural growth in Palestine would have mirrored that of Egypt and Syria, then that implies that nearly half of the Arabs living in Palestine in 1948 - over 600,000 - had immigrated since 1882.
> 
> If true, that means that half of today's "Palestinians'" ancestors lived in Palestine for fewer years than Israel has existed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab population growth in Palestine 1882-1947 double that of Egypt, Syria
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com



Joan Peters should go back to writing cookbooks.


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## Sixties Fan

Jewish groups in Poland complained after a professional soccer referee ridiculed the work of a group trying to root out antisemitism in the sport.

Lukasz Araszkiewicz, a referee from Poznan, called the work of the Never Again association “hogwash by Jewish centers and milieus.” Never Again, which seeks to curb expressions of racist hatred in soccer, had invited him and others to participate in the group’s activities, the Poznan edition of Gazeta Wyborca on Tuesday reported.

“Jews are not a chosen people despite this everlasting pretense of theirs,” Araszkiewicz replied in an email, “and portraying Poles as antisemites and talking about Polish concentration camps is the biggest Jewish f*****g despicable thing since World War II,” according to Never Again.

(full article online)









						Polish referee sends anti-Semitic rant to group fighting anti-Semitism
					

“Jews are not a chosen people despite this everlasting pretense of theirs,” ref reportedly writes.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Rarely does a book review in a major Canadian newspaper include widespread and significant anti-Israel misinformation, but that is exactly what readers of Saturday’s Globe and Mail were treated to with the recent book review: “Authors offer insights born of personal perspectives in new books examining the Israeli-Palestinian conflict,” where author JP O’Malley reviewed two anti-Israel books.

O’Malley’s review repeated largely uncritically the anti-Israel political agendas of the book’s authors.

In the first book, “The State of Israel Vs. The Jews,” author Sylvain Cypel regurgitates some of the most worn-out and disproven claims about Israel. In reviewer O’Malley’s words, the author posits that “The book is built around a single argument that is quite convincing: Zionism comes from an aggressive but outdated mode of 19th-century European nationalism that is no longer compatible with pluralistic democratic values in the 21st-century Western-led global order.”

This claim by Cypel – repeated without critique by O’Malley – is more than a simple inaccuracy; it is an egregious attempt to re-write the Jewish people’s history in the must unfavourable terms possible, and paint them, not as a group who have lived in their historic homeland for three thousand years, but as a foreign occupier. There is neither doubt nor real dispute that Jews have lived in the historic land of Israel for three millennia; asserting otherwise is akin to claiming that the Nazi Holocaust was a fiction.

----
The second book reviewed, “Unsilencing Gaza,” by Sara Roy, appears to be an even more radical anti-Israel manifesto, at least according to O’Malley’s largely uncritical review, though O’Malley does deserve some credit for not letting pass Roy’s apparent acknowledgement of Hamas, the Islamist terrorist group, as a legitimate political entity. Still, the bad far outweighs the good.

O’Malley claims there was a “Jewish insurgency in Mandatory Palestine.” Of course, insurgency is traditionally defined as a “revolt” or “rebellion,” whereas Jews fought a defensive war against attacks initiated by Palestinian-Arabs and the five invading armies of Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon and Transjordan: They represented a pan-Arab insurgency.
------
O’Malley explains that both books have four main themes: Israel’s alleged illegal occupation must end, the disproportionate body count, Jewish communities (referred to as settlements), and Israel’s alleged “dominion” over the Palestinians.

It would be a major undertaking to challenge the omitted facts and included misinformation in each one of these four categories, but at the very least, O’Malley’s decision to not include any substantive rebuttals of these superficial anti-Israel claims lays waste to any claim that this book review was based in fact-checking in any way whatsoever.

(full article online)









						Globe and Mail Book Review Replete With Anti-Israel Misinformation
					

Rarely does a book review in a major Canadian newspaper include widespread and significant anti-Israel misinformation, but that is exactly




					honestreporting.ca


----------



## Sixties Fan

At the UN General Assembly 679th Special Political Committee Meeting on December 1, 1969, the Saudi representative Jamil Baroody said some interesting things about Jews.



After repeating what many Arab representatives had claimed since 1947 - that Jews are not really Jews but descended from Khazars and therefore have no business living in the Middle East - he engaged in a bit of justification for the Holocaust:




> He then described the relations between the Jews and Nazi Germany. He quoted an article from The New York Times of 7 August 1933, in which Mr. Samuel Untermeyer, after returning from a meeting at which it had been decided to prosecute an economic boycott of Germany to undermine the Hitler regime, had stated that the boycott was a holy war designed to bring the German people to their senses by destroying their export trade on which their very existence depended. Hitler, who had only just taken power, had been forced to react against a movement which had threatened the country's very existence.
> 
> He then quoted a passage from the book Back Door to War; the Roosevelt Foreign Policy, 1933-1941 by Charles Callan Tansill, a professor at Georgetown University; the latter, referring to a conversation between Mr. Clifton, Mr. Utley and Mr. Schoenfeld, who was at present a member of the United States State Department, wrote that the concentration camp at Dachau was well organized; that the discipline of the inmates was excellent and their health was apparently satisfactory...The speaker was by no means seeking to condone the inhuman brutalities perpetrated by the Nati regime; however, he felt that the blockade recommended by the Jews had maddened Hitler.


The theme was that Jews are liars, fakers, and there was justification for them being murdered.

The New York Times article does discuss the boycott of Germany but Untermyer never said that it was a "holy war meant to bring the German people to their senses." 

The book _Back Door to War; the Roosevelt Foreign Policy, 1933-1941_ does say that Mr. Clifton M. Utley, director of the Chicago Council on Foreign Relations, described Dachau that way in 1935. However, in 1935 the Germans had set up Dachau as a model concentration camp to show to foreign visitors, what Utley saw was not in the least like how it was, let alone in the following years where thousands were executed.

All of this was well known in 1969. 

Baroody's false claims had nothing at all to do with Israel or Palestinians. It is nothing but pure Jew-hatred.

A hatred that is denied, despite massive evidence, to this very day.











						In 1969, a Saudi envoy justified the Holocaust at the UN
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## RoccoR

RE: The Right To Destroy Jewish History
SUBTOPIC: Credibility
※→. Sixties Fan, et al,


Sixties Fan said:


> At the UN General Assembly 679th Special Political Committee Meeting on December 1, 1969, the Saudi representative Jamil Baroody said some interesting things about Jews..
> _...  cut ..._
> Baroody's false claims had nothing at all to do with Israel or Palestinians. It is nothing but pure Jew-hatred.
> A hatred that is denied, despite massive evidence, to this very day.


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, we should not put too much emphasis on what was said a half-century ago given the political climate of the time.  The relationship between many of the Arab League states and Israel has changed over time.  More importantly, the condition of the peaceful relations in the Middle East has generally improved in relation to Israel.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


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## Sixties Fan

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Meoqx2Xi...8BhsnCLAD2szQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1428/brit+india1.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Meoqx2Xi...8BhsnCLAD2szQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1428/brit+india1.jpg
https://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2021/11/great-britain-answering-muslim-lies.html


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

This week's Palestinian cabinet meeting was in Al-Ram, just outside Jerusalem's municipal borders. During the meeting,Shtayyeh spoke about Jerusalem:



> We are on the outskirts of the eternal capital, the jewel in the crown, the point where heaven and earth meet, the flower of all cities, the object of longing of the hearts of the Muslim and Christian Believers who come to it to pray in the Al-Aqsa Mosque and to walk on the Via Dolorosa in order to pray in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, which witnessed the signing of the Pact of Umar, in which the Caliph Umar pledged to the people of Iliya (the Arab version of Aelia Capitolina/Jerusalem) that no Muslim would pray in their church. “Iliya Al-Quds” has Canaanite, Roman, Islamic, and Christians antiquities and is theirs alone,and no one else has any traces in it.


Denying Jewish history, and deliberately denying the historic importance of Jerusalem to Jews, is antisemitism. 

Before Palestinian nationalism, no Muslims ever denied the Jewish history of Jerusalem. It is well accepted that the entire reason the Dome of the Rock was built was as a successor to Solomon's Temple. The Waqf used to admit this as "beyond dispute."






Temple denial is only a few decades old, and only became popular when Yasir Arafat denied the Jewish Temples were ever in Jerusalem to Bill Clinton. 

Shtayyeh is going beyond that, denying the clear historical, archaeological, cultural and religious evidence of the unbreakable Jewish attachment to Jerusalem. 

This is antisemitism, and this respected face of Palestinian politics is an antisemite. 

Unfortunately, antisemitism isn't enough to disqualify Palestinian politicians from being respected and honored by Western leaders. 

In a fair world, he should be treated exactly as if he would have denied slavery of Black people. But antisemitism in the guise of "anti-Zionism" is not only respected, it is celebrated. 

(h/t Ibn Boutros)

UPDATE: In English, Shtayyeh said only last week, “The issue for us is not about Jews and Judaism. We have a great respect to every single Jewish person in the world.”


(full article online)









						Palestinian prime minister denies any trace of Jewish history in Jerusalem. (Yes, that makes him an antisemite.)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Muslim media typically reports 40,000-50,000 visiting every Friday. Even during COVID there were tens of thousands visiting every week when it was open.
> 
> As far as I can tell, more Muslims visit Judaism's holiest site, under Jewish rule, on a typical Friday than ever visited even on Muslim holidays under Muslim rule, in history.
> 
> I have looked for any photo or description estimating the number of Muslims that visited the holy site even during Muslim holidays, and while some descriptions mention "thousands" of worshippers, never have I seen anyone report "tens of of thousands" as the site sees every single week nowadays.
> 
> A letter from a British resident of Jerusalem in the November 23, 1937 Manchester Guardian disputes the claim that 10,000 Muslims carried the Mufti around the Temple Mount by pointing out that only perhaps once a year does the Haram esh Sharif attract that many Muslims:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only 13,000 Muslims lived in Jerusalem in 1922 and 40,000 in 1948 (compared to over 300,000 today) so 40,000 visitors would have been an astronomical figure to visit at any time under Muslim rule.
> 
> Now, during Fridays in Ramadan, Israel allows some 200,000 Muslims to visit Judaism's most sacred spot.
> 
> I am confident in my claim that more Muslims will visit the site today, on a typical Friday, walking past Israeli guards, than had ever visited at one time in the entire 1200 years of Muslim control of Jerusalem.
> 
> The contrast to how Muslims didn't allow Jews to visit the Temple Mount or the Cave of the Patriarchs at all under their rule couldn't be more striking.
> 
> Never in history has there been as free access to holy sites for all religions than under Jewish rule,  yet earlier this week the UN again accused Israel of "racial and ethnic discrimination."
> 
> We are truly living in 1984 where ignorance is strength.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More Muslims are visiting Al Aqsa on a typical Friday under Jewish rule than ever visited under Muslim rule in history
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com



Here are the historic demographics of Palestine up to 1948.. scroll down half way for the clearest  chart.





__





						Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## surada




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## surada




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## Sixties Fan

After seeing another idiotic tweet about how Israel is stealing Palestinian cuisine (and, no, shakshuka is in no way Palestinian) I wondered what it would be like if Jews were as insecure about their food inventions as Arabs seem to be.

Think about Kariot.

Kariot is an Israeli cereal that placed chocolate or nougat inside a pillow-shaped grain cereal. (Kariot means "pillows.")

It was created in Israel in 1994. A very similar cereal was introduced in the US by Kellogg's as Krave in 2012 after success in Europe.











						If Jews were as insecure as Arabs: "Kellogg's engages in cultural appropriation of Israeli Kariot cereal!"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Here are the historic demographics of Palestine up to 1948.. scroll down half way for the clearest  chart.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


It means absolutely as much as 1900's population of the US in relation as to who the indigenous people of the land are.

Keep trying.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> It means absolutely as much as 1900's population of the US in relation as to who the indigenous people of the land are.
> 
> Keep trying.



The Muslims and Christians were the indigenous majority for 2,000 years.


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## Sixties Fan

Israel Magazine  1974: Vol 6 Issue 3 has an article about how important the Negev was to David Ben-Gurion, especially access to the Red Sea. It describes Umm al-Rashrash as three mud huts - the same huts used by the British police (including their living quarters.) It described the area as "a place usually avoided even by desert dwellers."






British Lieutenant-General Sir John Bagot Glubb, fretting over the possibility of Israel gaining a foothold at the Red Sea, described the entire area as a "purely tribal area," - meaning, no permanent villages. (Quoted in Benny Morris' Road to Jerusalem.)

I've seen some sources say that Umm al-Rashrash was a place for Egyptians to rest on their way to Mecca for the Hajj pilgrimage, and that it was also called Bet El Hujaj (House of the Pilgrims.) But I cannot find any source for an actual permanent village in Umm al-Rashrash in the 20th century before Israel built Eilat there.

If I'm right, then how many of the hundreds of Arab villages supposedly destroyed by Israel have been made up or exaggerated?

_If anyone can find evidence of this village that Israel supposedly depopulated, let me know. I'll happily update this._

(full article online)









						Was there an Arab village in 1948 where Eilat is now? (update)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Muslims and Christians were the indigenous majority for 2,000 years.


That is NOT the meaning of the word indigenous.

Take a few classes about it.


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## surada




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## Indeependent

surada said:


> The Muslims and Christians were the indigenous majority for 2,000 years.


*indigenous*?
Are you retarded?


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Israel Magazine  1974: Vol 6 Issue 3 has an article about how important the Negev was to David Ben-Gurion, especially access to the Red Sea. It describes Umm al-Rashrash as three mud huts - the same huts used by the British police (including their living quarters.) It described the area as "a place usually avoided even by desert dwellers."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> British Lieutenant-General Sir John Bagot Glubb, fretting over the possibility of Israel gaining a foothold at the Red Sea, described the entire area as a "purely tribal area," - meaning, no permanent villages. (Quoted in Benny Morris' Road to Jerusalem.)
> 
> I've seen some sources say that Umm al-Rashrash was a place for Egyptians to rest on their way to Mecca for the Hajj pilgrimage, and that it was also called Bet El Hujaj (House of the Pilgrims.) But I cannot find any source for an actual permanent village in Umm al-Rashrash in the 20th century before Israel built Eilat there.
> 
> If I'm right, then how many of the hundreds of Arab villages supposedly destroyed by Israel have been made up or exaggerated?
> 
> _If anyone can find evidence of this village that Israel supposedly depopulated, let me know. I'll happily update this._
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was there an Arab village in 1948 where Eilat is now? (update)
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com



Ben Gurion said they had destroyed over 300 Arab villages between 1947-1949.

He also said the Palestinians were decended from Jewish farmers who didn't leave.


----------



## Indeependent

surada said:


> Ben Gurion said they had destroyed over 300 Arab villages between 1947-1949.
> 
> He also said the Palestinians were decended from Jewish farmers who didn't leave.


How many people did the Arabs murder in the last 1,000 years?
There's a reason why some Arab villages have to destroyed.


----------



## surada

Indeependent said:


> *indigenous*?
> Are you retarded?



Jews had been a minority in Palestine since the 1st century and they were never the sole population. Read your Bible or Torah.









						Village by village, town by town – how Zionists tried to destroy Palestine in 1948
					

In the sixth and final part of his series on Zionism, imperialism and the Palestinians, Neil Rogall describes the Nakba – the establishment of the Israeli state and catastrophe for Palestine.    1948 was a year of horror. The majority of the Palestinian people were violently evicted from their h




					www.rs21.org.uk


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Ben Gurion said they had destroyed over 300 Arab villages between 1947-1949.
> 
> He also said the Palestinians were decended from Jewish farmers who didn't leave.


1947-1949

Oh Yes !!!!! After the Arabs attacked Jews and also declared war with 5 to 7 Arabs States against one little tiny Jewish State.

It is called war.

The Arabs took the consequences of their actions.


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## Indeependent

surada said:


> Jews had been a minority in Palestine since the 1st century and they were never the sole population. Read your Bible or Torah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Village by village, town by town – how Zionists tried to destroy Palestine in 1948
> 
> 
> In the sixth and final part of his series on Zionism, imperialism and the Palestinians, Neil Rogall describes the Nakba – the establishment of the Israeli state and catastrophe for Palestine.    1948 was a year of horror. The majority of the Palestinian people were violently evicted from their h
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rs21.org.uk


I love the fact that you mention the Bible.
Read Genesis 10 and then come back crying.


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## Indeependent

Sixties Fan said:


> 1947-1949
> 
> Oh Yes !!!!! After the Arabs attacked Jews and also declared war with 5 to 7 Arabs States against one little tiny Jewish State.
> 
> It is called war.
> 
> The Arabs took the consequences of their actions.


C'mon, man!
Surada just had a cup of coffee and is repeating the same bullshit she repeats every night.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Jews had been a minority in Palestine since the 1st century and they were never the sole population. Read your Bible or Torah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Village by village, town by town – how Zionists tried to destroy Palestine in 1948
> 
> 
> In the sixth and final part of his series on Zionism, imperialism and the Palestinians, Neil Rogall describes the Nakba – the establishment of the Israeli state and catastrophe for Palestine.    1948 was a year of horror. The majority of the Palestinian people were violently evicted from their h
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rs21.org.uk


Ladies and Gentlemen, for your pleasure and enjoyment !!!!!

Surada


#1 Destroyer, or attempted destroyer of Jewish History.


Am Israel Chai !!!!


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Palestinian writer Amani Qurum is very upset at Regev, saying that his article is filled with lies. 

Writing in Al Quds, Qurum is angry at Regev for his "fierce and repeated attack on Hajj Amin al-Husseini, may God have mercy on him, accusing him of anti-Semitism and cooperating with the Germans and support for what is known as the final solution to the Jews and genocide and help in the killing of a million and a half Jews and pressure on Britain to close the gates of Palestine in front of Jewish immigration." 

Regev didn't say Husseini directly contributed to the murder of 1.5 million children, but that Husseini preferred to see them die rather than go to Palestine. This is documented in an incident, recounted by the US Holocaust Memorial Museum:



> In the spring of 1943, al-Husayni learned of negotiations between Germany's Axis partners with the British, the Swiss, and the International Red Cross to transport thousands of Jewish children to safety in Palestine. He sought to prevent the rescue operations with protests directed at the Germans and Italians, as well as at the governments of Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria. Demanding that the operations be scuttled, al-Husayni suggested that the children be sent to Poland where they would be subject to "stricter control." Although his preference that the children be killed in Poland rather than transported to Palestine appears to have been explicit, the impact of the letters was nil.


Qurum denies or ignores nearly all of the crimes of Amin Husseini. But she admits one - and justifies it:



> Of course, Husseini’s relations with the Germans cannot be denied at all, but they must be placed in their proper circumstances and context. Germany did not occupy Palestine and did not give it to the Jews falsely. On the contrary, Britain and France shared the region as a whole between them as the two largest colonial powers at that time. Within the framework of the game of alliances, isn't it natural for al-Husayni to bet politically on Germany, only in order to defend Palestine, which colonial Britain unjustly gave to the Jews?


Qurum proves Regev's main point: Palestinians need to acknowledge their support for a Nazi collaborator, not treat him as a hero. Because of his stature, it is unthinkable for a Palestinian writer to criticize the Mufti, whose hatred for Jews cannot be papered over - he was quite proud of it. 

(full article online)









						Palestinian newspaper defends the Mufti's collaboration with Nazis
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## surada

Indeependent said:


> How many people did the Arabs murder in the last 1,000 years?
> There's a reason why some Arab villages have to destroyed.



Over 500 were destroyed. The Zionists used the same tactics the Germans used.





Sixties Fan said:


> 1947-1949
> 
> Oh Yes !!!!! After the Arabs attacked Jews and also declared war with 5 to 7 Arabs States against one little tiny Jewish State.
> 
> It is called war.
> 
> The Arabs took the consequences of their actions.



You sure are entitled..


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Over 500 were destroyed. The Zionists used the same tactics the Germans used.
> 
> You sure are entitled..


You think you are "entitled" to change history and put the fault of people's suffering on a people you have been taught to despise.

All that happened between 1920 and 1948 is the fault of the Mufti clan which defeated the clans which knew better for the Arab people, which was to live in peace with the Jews in their reconstructed Nation, and be a part of the progress they were going to bring to them.

All the Arab Christians and Muslims ended up getting was a continued menu of hatred towards Jews and endless teachings how the Jews do not Ever have the Right to sovereign ON THEIR OWN homeland, by lying about who the Jews were and even that there is no Jewish history on that land AT ALL.

When confronted with such endless 1700 years of Entitlement to mistreat Jews at their will, of course the Jews had to defend themselves and that is what they did.

Your small reply shows your intent to vilify a people who lost over 6 Million people not only in Europe because of learned hatred for Jews, but in North Africa and the Middle East.

And needless to say, that sentence also shows that as usual......you have no idea of what you are talking about or are saying it because you do know what happened and what the truth is.

Millions of uncivilized Christians and Muslims attempted, from 1920 to 1949, to WIPE OUT all the Jews in the world.

And the effort continues and you are one of the main foot soldiers who intend to succeed at it.

You know Arabic, you can tell what they say in Arabic and English and you do know that what the Palestinian leaders say in English and Arabic are two different things.

The Arabs who live in Gaza and the PA are being duped into killing themselves in order to murder all the Jews and take for Islam, a tiny piece of land which apparently Islam cannot live without.

Islam.....not Arabs, not the Palestinians.

Learn History.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Over 500 were destroyed. The Zionists used the same tactics the Germans used.
> 
> You sure are entitled..


Yes, absolutely Jews are entitled.

We are totally entitled to live on our ancient homeland, even only 20% of it.

We are entitled, like any other people, to defend ourselves from a people who want to see us dead and gone by destroying millions of Arab lives, rather than live side by side.....as it continues to happen in Israel.....and bear fruit of that collaboration.

Peaceful Arab tribes are right.

Grand Mufti and all the hateful tribes are wrong.

Learn History.


----------



## Sixties Fan

In the past few weeks, two especially egregious examples of Israel demonisation and delegitimisation have surfaced in mainstream media magazines. 

The first, in _The Critic,_ was by Janine di Giovanni which you can read here. The second, by Rian Malan in 2010, was republished in the _Spectator_ and you can read that one here.

Both have been eviscerated by Adam Levick of Camera UK here and here. 

Di Giovanni’s article consisted of boiler-plate Israel-bashing, rehashing knee-jerk falsehoods about the “occupation,” air-brushing out of the picture Palestinian war-crimes against Israel and malevolently depicting Israel instead as the aggressor — the kind of lazy malice that you can read year in, year out in the_ Guardian, New York Times, Socialist Worker _or other  Palestinian-narrative propaganda sheets.
-----
Given all this, why did the _Spectator_ re-run this piece?

Two things stand out from this. The first is not just the number of errors in these articles, but their eye-watering dislocation from easily ascertainable reality and factual evidence.

The second is that this malicious propaganda aimed at destroying Israel’s right to exist is the hallmark of elements on the left, which trade on both ignorance and ideological obsession. Both the _Spectator_ and _The Critic_ are supposed to stand against all that by providing intelligent and informed writing that elevates public discourse. Yet with these two pieces, they have joined the ranks of those who instead are corrupting public discourse and closing the western mind against truth and decency.

What on earth were these two editors thinking by publishing them? They appear to have seen nothing wrong with them. Perhaps they thought — if they thought anything at all about them — that they were merely “a point of view” just like any other? A controversy on which these editors need not have an opinion, since all they have to do is hold the ring in suitably Socratic editorial fashion? Valid contributions to public debate? 

But these lies, distortions and malicious libels against Israel are _not_ valid contributions to public debate. They are part of a strategy to demonise, delegitimise and destroy Israel through a sustained propaganda campaign that has colonised the collective mind of the western intelligentsia. 

A strategy deployed against no other country, people or cause in the world. A strategy that incites hatred, paranoia and murderous violence. A strategy cooked up in the sixties by the Soviet Union and Yasser Arafat to knock the west off its moral compass so that it could be weakened and defeated. A strategy that has paved the way for the hijack of language and destruction of reason which fuel “intersectionality” and identity politics, and which are de-moralising the west in every sense of that word. 


(full article online)









						Cracks in the bulwarks of decency
					

Why are The Critic and the Spectator rehashing inane anti-Israel malice?




					melaniephillips.substack.com


----------



## Indeependent

surada said:


> Over 500 were destroyed. The Zionists used the same tactics the Germans used.
> 
> You sure are entitled..


Did you read Genesis, Chapter 10, supporter of Muslims Murderers?


----------



## surada

Indeependent said:


> Did you read Genesis, Chapter 10, supporter of Muslims Murderers?



You must have forgotten that the Zionist terror gangs were formed in the early 1920s... and by 1948 they had killed more than 500 British peacekeepers.

You actually believe the Gilgamesh myth ???? Literally?









						Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 10 - New International Version
					

The Table of Nations - This is the account of Shem, Ham and Japheth, Noah’s sons, who themselves had sons after the flood. The Japhethites The sons of Japheth: Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshek and Tiras. The sons of Gomer: Ashkenaz, Riphath and Togarmah. The sons of Javan: Elishah...




					www.biblegateway.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> You must have forgotten that the Zionist terror gangs were formed in the early 1920s... and by 1948 they had killed more than 500 British peacekeepers.
> 
> You actually believe the Gilgamesh myth ???? Literally?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 10 - New International Version
> 
> 
> The Table of Nations - This is the account of Shem, Ham and Japheth, Noah’s sons, who themselves had sons after the flood. The Japhethites The sons of Japheth: Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshek and Tiras. The sons of Gomer: Ashkenaz, Riphath and Togarmah. The sons of Javan: Elishah...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.biblegateway.com


Revisionist history.  Which is no history at all.

Let us not discuss the Bible.  It has nothing to do with Millions of delusional Muslims attempting to kill all Jews on the planet.

The British got what they deserved for betraying the Mandate for Palestine, and they did so only because it was for the Jewish people.

Which is why they gave 78% to Arab Muslims who had no claim to TranJordan.

Your crocodile tears are something to behold.

Rewrite history as to why the Jews had to become armed and why anything after the 1920 riots happened.

You are really good at it.  Have you been able to recruit any more Jew haters to your cause by your endless receptions of your revised history of the world?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Revisionist history.  Which is no history at all.
> 
> Let us not discuss the Bible.  It has nothing to do with Millions of delusional Muslims attempting to kill all Jews on the planet.
> 
> The British got what they deserved for betraying the Mandate for Palestine, and they did so only because it was for the Jewish people.
> 
> Which is why they gave 78% to Arab Muslims who had no claim to TranJordan.
> 
> Your crocodile tears are something to behold.
> 
> Rewrite history as to why the Jews had to become armed and why anything after the 1920 riots happened.
> 
> You are really good at it.  Have you been able to recruit any more Jew haters to your cause by your endless receptions of your revised history of the world?



Its not revisionist history at all. Those are the facts.. Your education  is poor.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Its not revisionist history at all. Those are the facts.. Your education  is poor.


And you are constantly asked to show proof of your history and absolutely none is ever given.

Some facts !!!!


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> And you are constantly asked to show proof of your history and absolutely none is ever given.
> 
> Some facts !!!!



Jewish insurgency in Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia








						Jewish insurgency in Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



The Jewish insurgency in Mandatory Palestine, known in the United Kingdom as the Palestine Emergency, was a paramilitary campaign carried out by Zionist underground groups against British rule in Mandatory Palestine.The tensions between the Zionist underground and the British mandatory authorities rose from 1938 and intensified with the publication of the White Paper of 1939.


----------



## surada

Stern Gang | Zionist extremist organization | Britannica








						Stern Gang | Zionist extremist organization
					

Stern Gang, also called Stern Group or Lehi, formally Loḥamei Ḥerut Yisraʾel (Hebrew: “Fighters for the Freedom of Israel”),  Zionist extremist organization in Palestine, founded in 1940 by Avraham Stern (1907–42) after a split in the right-wing underground movement Irgun Zvai Leumi. Extremely...



					www.britannica.com
				



Stern Gang, Zionist extremist organization in Palestine, founded in 1940 by Avraham Stern (1907–42) after a split in the right-wing underground movement Irgun Zvai Leumi. Extremely anti-British, the group repeatedly attacked British personnel in Palestine and even invited aid from the Axis powers.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Jewish insurgency in Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish insurgency in Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish insurgency in Mandatory Palestine, known in the United Kingdom as the Palestine Emergency, was a paramilitary campaign carried out by Zionist underground groups against British rule in Mandatory Palestine.The tensions between the Zionist underground and the British mandatory authorities rose from 1938 and intensified with the publication of the White Paper of 1939.


History !!!!

The British were to honor the British Mandate for the reconstruction of the Jewish Nation ON the Jewish Homeland based on the League of Nations.

They totally betrayed the Jews, favoring the Arabs instead.  First by giving the newly thrown out of Arabia, the Hashemites, a whopping 78% of the Jewish land.

Why not any other piece of land from any of the other 3 Mandates?

Because the Mandate for Palestine was giving back land for the Jews to become sovereign over their ancient homeland.

That is the biggest NO NO in Islam.  And AL Husseini was one of the most vicious Muslims who hated Jews who had ever been born.

The Muslims managed to make the British stop the Jewish immigration that was legally written as part of the Mandate.

Keep crying and changing who the aggressors are.  Who the indigenous people are.  Who had to defend themselves against whom.

It does not matter.

The Jews fought for their lives, won and will continue to win, as Muslims like Hamas, the PA and all of those who cannot get out of those areas to save their lives from Hamas and PA will continue to pay the price for Christian and Islamic learned Jew hatred.


----------



## Indeependent

surada said:


> You must have forgotten that the Zionist terror gangs were formed in the early 1920s... and by 1948 they had killed more than 500 British peacekeepers.
> 
> You actually believe the Gilgamesh myth ???? Literally?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 10 - New International Version
> 
> 
> The Table of Nations - This is the account of Shem, Ham and Japheth, Noah’s sons, who themselves had sons after the flood. The Japhethites The sons of Japheth: Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshek and Tiras. The sons of Gomer: Ashkenaz, Riphath and Togarmah. The sons of Javan: Elishah...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.biblegateway.com


You made a claim that you can’t back up so your are singing the Ad Hominem Serenade.


----------



## Indeependent

surada said:


> You must have forgotten that the Zionist terror gangs were formed in the early 1920s... and by 1948 they had killed more than 500 British peacekeepers.
> 
> You actually believe the Gilgamesh myth ???? Literally?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 10 - New International Version
> 
> 
> The Table of Nations - This is the account of Shem, Ham and Japheth, Noah’s sons, who themselves had sons after the flood. The Japhethites The sons of Japheth: Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshek and Tiras. The sons of Gomer: Ashkenaz, Riphath and Togarmah. The sons of Javan: Elishah...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.biblegateway.com


You brought up the Bible as an factual argument and when there’s a chapter that invalidates your argument, you ridicule the Bible.

You suck as an attorney.


----------



## surada

Indeependent said:


> I love the fact that you mention the Bible.
> Read Genesis 10 and then come back crying.



What does Zionism have to do with the Bible?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> What does Zionism have to do with the Bible?


Learn History.


----------



## Indeependent

surada said:


> What does Zionism have to do with the Bible?


You tell me as you brought it up to “prove” Canaan settled there after he left the ark and I proved you wrong.
Now you are making believe you’re an idiot.
You’re just a liar.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## rylah

surada said:


> What does Zionism have to do with the Bible?



We can talk about the similarities in the characters of Mosheh Rabbenu A"H and Binyamin Herzl  Zt"a.
Or that in every generation the initiating Zionist pioneers were always Torah sages and their students.

It's the same story with Herzl's grandfather and Rabbi Alkal'ee Z"L,
who studied with Rabbi Bibas Z"L, grandson of 'Or HaHayyim'.
As the 'Ben Ish Hai' now above the 7th step in Hebron.

Even before the skin and bones of the Holocaust, Arabs didn't just mess up with "European Jews",
they messed up huge with the Mekubalim and their families in Morocco and Babylon,
the very sages of the generation initiating Zionism.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel exhibits a “colonial systematology about nativeness” in the treatment of online smartphone pictures of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, stated Duke University associate professor of anthropology Rebecca Stein during a Nov. 4 webinar. 

This presentation, at George Washington University’s Institute for Middle East Studies (IMES). of her new book, _Screen Shots: State Violence on Camera in Israel and Palestine_, exposed her incorrigible anti-Israel bias.

That bias is evident in her Duke classroom, where last spring she announced to her class on social media in the Middle East that “she doesn’t care what prior knowledge or experience [class members] have on the topic,” as the only documents to be discussed were those she introduced.

As IMES associate director Shana Marshall moderated, Stein explained how her book examines the effects of widely disseminated smartphone cameras among clashing Israelis and Palestinians. These “proliferating cameras across the political theater of military occupation in the hands of all constituents” are “all aimed at the scene of state violence.” “A lot of this book is spent in the offices of B’Tselem, Israel’s oldest human rights organization” from 2010-2016, she added, a whitewashed description for a militantly anti-Israel organization.

B’Tselem and Stein, both supporters of the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) economic warfare campaign against Israel, are ideological allies. She has previously described the 2000-2005 Second Intifada’s bloody terrorism as amounting to “mass demonstrations.” She has also praised the “Israel Studies” program at Birzeit University near Ramallah, a historic breeder of anti-Israel violence dubbed “Terrorist University” by some. In another book presentation, she claimed that Israel’s “occupation has been going on since 1967 and has been expanding and normalizing ever since,” even though Israel has withdrawn from significant Palestinian territories like the Gaza Strip.

(full article online)









						Duke Professor’s Distorted Lens into Israel/Palestinian Conflict
					

Israel exhibits a “colonial systematology about nativeness” in the treatment of online smartphone pictures of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, stated Duke University associate professor of anthropology Rebecca Stein during a Nov. 4 ...




					www.americanthinker.com


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Israel exhibits a “colonial systematology about nativeness” in the treatment of online smartphone pictures of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, stated Duke University associate professor of anthropology Rebecca Stein during a Nov. 4 webinar.
> 
> This presentation, at George Washington University’s Institute for Middle East Studies (IMES). of her new book, _Screen Shots: State Violence on Camera in Israel and Palestine_, exposed her incorrigible anti-Israel bias.
> 
> That bias is evident in her Duke classroom, where last spring she announced to her class on social media in the Middle East that “she doesn’t care what prior knowledge or experience [class members] have on the topic,” as the only documents to be discussed were those she introduced.
> 
> As IMES associate director Shana Marshall moderated, Stein explained how her book examines the effects of widely disseminated smartphone cameras among clashing Israelis and Palestinians. These “proliferating cameras across the political theater of military occupation in the hands of all constituents” are “all aimed at the scene of state violence.” “A lot of this book is spent in the offices of B’Tselem, Israel’s oldest human rights organization” from 2010-2016, she added, a whitewashed description for a militantly anti-Israel organization.
> 
> B’Tselem and Stein, both supporters of the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) economic warfare campaign against Israel, are ideological allies. She has previously described the 2000-2005 Second Intifada’s bloody terrorism as amounting to “mass demonstrations.” She has also praised the “Israel Studies” program at Birzeit University near Ramallah, a historic breeder of anti-Israel violence dubbed “Terrorist University” by some. In another book presentation, she claimed that Israel’s “occupation has been going on since 1967 and has been expanding and normalizing ever since,” even though Israel has withdrawn from significant Palestinian territories like the Gaza Strip.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Duke Professor’s Distorted Lens into Israel/Palestinian Conflict
> 
> 
> Israel exhibits a “colonial systematology about nativeness” in the treatment of online smartphone pictures of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, stated Duke University associate professor of anthropology Rebecca Stein during a Nov. 4 ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.americanthinker.com



They boycotted South Africa for aparthied.. Where did you stand on that issue?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> They boycotted South Africa for aparthied.. Where did you stand on that issue?


Who is they?  Stein?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Who is they?  Stein?



Maybe you're too young to remember. People all over the world.

Meanwhile,

Jewish mythology - Wikipedia








						Jewish mythology - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



Jewish mythology is the body of myths associated with Judaism. Elements of Jewish mythology have had a profound influence on Christian mythology and on Islamic mythology, as well as on world culture in general. Christian mythology directly inherited many of the narratives from the Jewish people, sharing in common the narratives from the Old Testament.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Maybe you're too young to remember. People all over the world.
> 
> Meanwhile,
> 
> Jewish mythology - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish mythology - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish mythology is the body of myths associated with Judaism. Elements of Jewish mythology have had a profound influence on Christian mythology and on Islamic mythology, as well as on world culture in general. Christian mythology directly inherited many of the narratives from the Jewish people, sharing in common the narratives from the Old Testament.


Check my answer on the other thread and stop being dishonest .

Islam borrowed heavily from the Jewish Myths just as Christianity did. Is that part of Islam's "history" not on Wikepedia?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Check my answer on the other thread and stop being dishonest .
> 
> Islam borrowed heavily from the Jewish Myths just as Christianity did. Is that part of Islam's "history" not on Wikepedia?



Everyone knows that.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> They boycotted South Africa for aparthied.. Where did you stand on that issue?



I wasn't even born yet,
but talking of apartheid -

No Africans were ever allowed
in any of the Pal-Arab governments,
so where do you stand on that issue?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Everyone knows that.


But you insist that Jewish mythology makes Jews want to steal other people's lands.

You did not seem to know that or you would have acknowledged that and not accused Israel and the Jewish people of "Stealing lands" because of their myths.

And do learn the meaning of the word Apartheid if you wish to attack Israel for it.  Millions of Arabs, Christian, Muslims in Israel, and all others will tell you otherwise if you only ever bother to talk to them.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Here is Apartheid in Israel for you:

The documentary was commissioned by BBC Arabic. The presence of Arab soldiers in the IDF has caused some controversy. Currently there are ten times as many Israeli Arabs - Muslims and Christians - joining the IDF compared to three years ago.





__





						Israel's Arab Warriors - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




“I am the operations officer at the IDF ground forces training base at Tze’elim,” Ala Wahib says at the start of our conversation, his eyes twinkling with excitement. “I am like the mother and father of that place,” he adds. “The only thing is that I don’t really have anyone to share it with, so I make sure to pat myself on the back every now and again, and say ‘dude, you’re awesome. Look how far you’ve come.’”​
*The truth is that he deserves these accolades. It is not every day that a Muslim Arab, hailing from a village whose residents largely do not recognize Israel’s right to exist, comes to serve in the Israel Defense Forces. And he doesn’t only serve: Major Wahib, 32, is currently the highest ranking Muslim officer in the IDF. He is enormously patriotic, a true Zionist. Precisely the kind of person we like to see lighting the torches during the national Independence Day ceremony every year.*

But still, Wahib came to this interview with immense trepidation. Even today, after 12 years in the Israeli military, he still doesn’t feel comfortable openly discussing his views.









						An officer and a Muslim Zionist
					

"From the age of zero I was told that Israel stole Palestine from us, but when I was 14 I woke up. I discovered that Jews are not bad," says Ala Wahib, an operations officer at a key IDF training base, and the highest-ranked Muslim officers in the Israeli army.



					israelforever.org
				





Do show me APARTHEID in Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Al-Omah, a pan-Arab news site meant to cover the entire Islamic ummah, has an article by Dr.. Walid Abdel Hai about using Jewish humor to understand Jews and Israel, noting how sociologists analyze jokes to gain further understandings in society all the time.

He gathered a decent collection of Jewish jokes to show how Jews think. Some of the jokes are funny. Some don't appear to be jokes by Jews at all. But either way, his analyses of Jewish attributes based on the jokes are hilariously antisemitic and clueless.

Joke #1:

_ISIS arrested three  journalists: an American, a British citizen, and an Israeli. ISIS asked each what his last request was before his execution.

The American said, “I want a hamburger,” so they gave him his request.

The British man said, “Red wine,” and they gave it to him.

As for the Israeli, he requested that ISIS kick him hard on his ass, so the ISIS members did so.

The Israeli fell to the ground, pulled out a pistol he was hiding in his clothes, and shot and killed the ISIS terrorist.

The two other journalists asked him "Why you didn't kill him from the beginning?" The Israeli answered: "So that you don't say in your newspapers that I started the aggression."_
--
What did the author think this teaches about Jews? "Making a pretext for aggression."

Joke #2:

_An American, his wife and his mother-in-law traveled to Israel as tourists.

While they were there, the mother-in-law fell ill and died. 

The Israeli authorities told the American that they can bury her in Israel for free. 

He strongly refused in front of his wife and insisted that his mother-in-law be transported to America to be buried there.

The Israeli official took him aside and asked him, "Why you insist on bearing the costs?"

He answered, "Jesus was buried here and rose after three days. I can't take that chance!"_
--
The Jewish quality this story shows? "Lack of confidence."

Joke #3:

_Three people, one American, one from Sierra Leone, and one from Israel, saw a sign on the door of a butcher shop: "We are sorry for the beef shortage."

The American asked, "What does 'shortage' mean?"
The man from Sierra Leone asked, "What does 'beef' mean?"
The Israeli asked, "What does 'sorry' mean?"_
--
The Jewish attribute that the author thinks this shows? "Failure to admit responsibility."

Joke #4 (actually #6, I'm skipping some):

_A customs officer at a Moscow airport saw a Jewish immigrant to Israel had a statue of Lenin,

The agent asked him: What is this? The Jew shouted back patriotically, "What do you mean? It is a souvenir of the workers' paradise here!" So the Russian let him go.

When he arrived at Tel Aviv airport, the customs officer asked him, "What is this?"

He answered to him, "This is a statue of Lenin. I want to put it in the bathroom so that I can spit on it every time I enter." So the customs agent let him keep it.

When he reached his new home, the Jew's neighbor asked him: "What is this?"

"Two kilos of gold." _
--
The Jewish attribute? "Deception."

The writer is trying to shoehorn his antisemitic ideas of what Jews are like into our jokes!
-------

Finally, this joke sounds like an antisemitic Palestinian joke rather than a Jewish joke, under the summary of "Greed."

A person wanted to buy a plot of land to build on, so he consulted with a Jew, saying to him: "You Jews are smart. Which of the two parcels should I buy... the right piece or the left piece?"

The Jew told him the left piece, so the man bought the right piece.

So the Jew asked him, "I told you the left piece, so why did you buy the right? "

The man said, "I knew that you didn't say the right parcel so you could buy it yourself. You Jews are smart but you are liars."

(If this had actually been a Jewish joke, the two would have met later:
Gentile: "So I heard you actually bought the left parcel of land - why?"
Jew: "Because some idiot didn't take my advice!")









						Pan Arab news site tries to analyze Jewish attributes using our jokes
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

( Gotta love that spirit of trying.....and trying again......to fail.....and fail again..)

False Claims That Weaponize History​Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has gone on record asserting that Palestinians are descendants of the Canaanite tribe of the Jebusites. Yet while Jews and Jebusites may have coexisted in Israel as late as the 11th century BCE, King David conquered Jebus and made it his capital, Jerusalem, sometime between 1005-999 BCE. After that, the trail turns cold. There is no other mention of the Jebusites elsewhere; no artifacts or documents have been found.

In other words, there is no evidence to support the claim of a Jebusite-Palestinian continuity.

Rewriting the foundations of history seemingly comes easy to Palestinian leaders. In 2018, Saeb Erekat, former chief Palestinian negotiator and secretary-general of the Executive Committee of the Palestine Liberation Organization, said:



> I am the son of Jericho. I am 10,000 years old.… I am the proud son of the Netufians and the Canaanites. I’ve been there for 5,500 years before Joshua Bin Nun came and burned my hometown Jericho. I’m not going to change my narrative.”


But how can Erekat’s alleged connection to the land have predated the region’s Islamic conquest that took place 2,000 years after the biblical Joshua is believed to have lived? In point of fact, many Palestinians arrived in Ottoman and British-ruled Palestine from across the Middle East in concert with the fledgling Zionist enterprise that began in the late 19th century.

(full article online)









						Palestinian Leaders' Fabrications About Ancient Israel Go Unchallenged By Media | Honest Reporting
					

As a growing body of evidence confirms the Jewish people's ancient connection to Israel, Palestinian leaders continue to distort history.




					honestreporting.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Council of Endowments, Islamic Affairs and Holy Sanctuaries in Jerusalem, known as the Waqf, warned today that "the targeting of Al-Aqsa Mosque by extremist Jewish groups reached a level of danger in the decision issued by the so-called Education Committee in the Knesset to compel schools affiliated with the Israeli Ministry of Education to include the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque within educational tours for Jewish students."

The statement said that the decision was made "in order to strengthen and increase the number of Jewish intrusions into the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque and to consolidate the idea of the alleged temple in emerging minds."

Yes, they are warning that Israeli schools want to brainwash kids into believing that the Jewish Temples existed.

The Waqf reiterated that the Temple Mount, in a place that Muslims call Bait is a purely Islamic mosque that belongs to Muslims alone and does not accept division or partnership. 

In a place they call Bayt al-Maqdis, after the Hebrew Beit HaMikdash, which means Holy Temple.

The antisemitic Waqf continued saying that "the claim of non-Muslims that the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque is part of their heritage is a false and slanderous claim in order to storm it and disrupt the historical, religious and legal situation that has existed in it for a long time."

The group also said that Israel is trying to ignite the region in religious wars. And right afterwards they called on all Arab and Muslim nations to support a Jew-free Temple Mount.









						Waqf warns that  Israel is brainwashing kids to believe that the Temples existed
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Mindful

(JTA) — Archaeologists excavating a 2,100-year-old fortress say it provides “tangible evidence” of the events from the Hanukkah story.

The site, located west of Hebron in the Lachish Forest, includes remnants of a fortress made of stone and wood that the archaeologists working with the Israel Antiquities Authority believe was burned by the Hasmoneans — Judean descendants of the Maccabees — during a battle with the Macedonian Greek Seleucids.

The excavation has turned up evidence of a fire in the form of burnt wooden beams as well as pottery, weapons and coins.
The coins found at the site point to the destruction of the fortress by the Hasmonean leader John Hyrcanus around 112 BCE, the archaeologists say.

“The excavation site provides tangible evidence of the Hanukkah stories. It appears that we have discovered a building that was part of a fortified line erected by the Hellenistic army commanders to protect the large Hellenistic city of Maresha from a Hasmonean offensive. 

However, the finds from the site show that the Seleucid defenses were unsuccessful; the excavated building was badly burnt and devastated by the Hasmoneans,” leaders of the dig said in a statement.









						Ruins of a Hellenistic fortress show 'tangible evidence' of Hanukkah story, Israeli archaeologists say - Jewish Telegraphic Agency
					

They say coins found at the site point to the destruction of the fortress by the Hasmonean leader John Hyrcanus around 112 BCE.




					www.jta.org


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## Sixties Fan

Yesterday I reported that the Waqf said that Israel intended to brainwash its young students into believing that the Temples in Jerusalem ever existed.


Mahmoud al-Habbash, a senior advisor to Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas who is also the top sharia judge for the Palestinian Authority, went even further.

Al-Habbash issued a press statement where he said that "the occupying state practices all tricks and fabrications and uses lies and falsification of facts to try to prove any connection between the Jews in the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque [meaning the Temple Mount], in preparation for imposing Israeli control over the mosque within the circles of Judaizing the holy city. "

Denying the Temple is antisemitism, just as is denying any part of Jewish history, denying that Jerusalem is holy to Jews, or denying that today's Jews are descended from the Jews of the Torah.

As far as I can tell, the first person to even imply that there was no Jewish connection to the Temple Mount was the antisemitic Mufti of Jerusalem. Giving his statement of the Committee for the Defense of Al-Buraq Al-Sharif at the Islamic Conference held in Jerusalem in 1928, he talked about Jews as "these greedy people" and said, "Jews have long been aiming for a terrible goal, which is to extract the Al-Aqsa Mosque from the hands of the Muslims, even though they did not claim it is the “Temple” before [under Ottoman rule] because the Holy Land was guarded by the Muslims themselves."

Anti-Zionism has always been antisemitism.









						Abbas advisor also says that the Temples never existed. He's following the Palestinian tradition from the Mufti.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

“There are streets they cannot walk and places they cannot go, simply because they are Palestinian.”

Those are the words of Jamaal Bowman, a United States Congressman.

They are also highly misleading.



Bowman is the latest in a long line of people to have visited Hebron over the years — as guests of radical fringe groups — and to have come away repeating false talking points to the media.

The same messaging has been repeatedly transmitted by foreign dignitaries, novelists, film stars, and other celebrities, who have been shown select parts of the city by members of groups such as Breaking the Silence and B’Tselem.

Breaking the Silence in particular is a highly controversial group, with a history of spreading false and misleading allegations against the Israel Defense Forces, many of them given anonymously. Its tours are a notable source of misinformation regarding Hebron specifically, and the relationship between Israel and the Palestinians in general.

Unsurprisingly, this strategy has resulted in a trove of quotes slamming Israel being reproduced in prominent English-language media outlets.

(full article online)









						Revealed: How Radical Fringe Groups Manipulate Westerners Against Israel
					

Ultra-Orthodox Jewish men are seen through a panel as they pray at the Western Wall in Jerusalem’s Old City while …




					www.algemeiner.com


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## danielpalos

...trying to destroy Jewish history is anti-Semitic.


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Yesterday, the Palestinian Authority chose to exploit World Children’s Day to repeat its libel that Israel deliberately targets, harms, and even murders Palestinian children.

In a cartoon in the official PA daily, the logo of Defense for Children International – Palestine (DCI - Palestine) was used to express the PA libel that Israel deliberately targets Palestinian children.

The cartoon shows the logo of DCI – Palestine, which features two children standing with their hands to their faces and the letters “ID” behind them. An Israeli soldier marking rifle sights on the chests of the two children with blood on his finger was added to the logo to express the PA libel.







[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Nov. 20, 2021]         Logo of the DCI-Palestine

Tragically, it is the PA that harms and abuses Palestinian children. As Palestinian Media Watch has exposed for decades, and most recently in its report on Fatah’s education of children ages 6-15 through its _Waed_ magazine, the PA and Fatah are indoctrinating Palestinian children to seek Martyrdom for “Palestine,” to see terror as a legitimate tool in the “struggle against the enemy Israel,” and to strive for Israel's destruction.

PMW has documented that the PA actively promotes the libel to kids that Israel deliberately tries to harm them, telling them that "barbaric" Israel’s objective is to kill children – “so don't walk alone!” Ironically, a host on official PA TV taught children this message while Palestinian teens were at the same time carrying out numerous stabbing attacks trying to murder Israelis during the so-called “Knife Intifada” (2015-2016):  









(full article online)









						PA libel: Israel targets Palestinian children -- PA repeats libel on World Children's Day | PMW Analysis
					

Yesterday, the Palestinian Authority chose to exploit World Children’s Day to repeat its libel that Israel deliberately targets, harms, and even murders Palestinian children




					www.palwatch.org


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Lately, Palestinian Arabic media have been making a bold claim.

Raia al-Youm writes, 



> Even before its establishment in Europe, the Zionist movement used to claim that Palestine is the “Promised Land” and that the Jews are “God’s chosen people.” And the heresy of Jerusalem as a “completely Jewish city,”  invaded the Western world, which eventually led the former US President, Donald Trump to recognize Jerusalem as the eternal capital of the Jewish people, and ordered the transfer of Washington’s embassy in the entity to occupied Jerusalem.
> 
> In this context, the famous Israeli archaeologist Israel Finkelstein (72 years old) from Tel Aviv University, once again appeared to dismantle these allegations, denying the existence of any connection to the Jews in Jerusalem, as he put it.



Al Quds goes further:


> Israeli archaeologist Israel Flinckstein said that no one has found any Jewish antiquities in Jerusalem and that the archaeological excavations have not foiund a single Jewish article, and that what was discovered confirms that Jeruaalem is not Jewish and that all Talmudic claims are myths that were marketed for political purposes.
> 
> Finkelstein provided important information to the Jerusalem Report about the antiquities discovered in Jerusalem, all of which date back to ancient times, and that they are evidence of important historical periods for the empires that were prevalent, and that the Jews alone are not represented in them. ,
> 
> Finkelstein acknowledges that Jerusalem was ruled by the Jebusites, Sassanids, Greeks, Romans, etc., without mentioning the Jews in it, and that archaeology confirms that Jerusalem was never Jewish and was not subject to the rule of the Jews who lived in the vicinity.


Israel Finkelstein is well known as a skeptic of Biblical accounts of history, although he doesn't define himself in the "minimalist" school of Biblical archaeology. He has said there is no evidence for Joshua's conquests or for King David being more than a local chieftain. 
But did he say Jerusalem has no Jewish history?




A friend emailed Finkelstein a copy of the Al Quds article and asked him to comment. 

Finkelstein's response: "Complete nonsense. I've never said that nor do I think that."
He added, "The world is out of control, every spin and every lie gets a pass."
Which sounds a lot like Palestinian Arab media.










						Prominent Israeli archaeologist refutes Arab media claims that he said Jerusalem wasn't Jewish (update)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Imagine if one of the world’s leading news publications in a headline referred to Washington DC merely as a ‘City on the Potomac River.’ Yet this is exactly whatThe Associated Press, a wire service with more than 1,300 clients, did in a piece titled _Israeli president celebrates Hanukkah at West Bank site__. _Beyond diminishing the Jewish people’s historic connection to Hebron, AP also chose to ignore Hamas’ threat of violence against the city’s Jewish residents that was made following the announcement that President Isaac Herzog would be lighting the first candle of Hanukkah at the Tomb of the Patriarchs.

Instead of facts, AP’s report is structured as a series of unchallenged Palestinian victimhood narrative talking points.

AP buries Jewish link to Hebron​The Associated Press rather belatedly mentions, in the eighth paragraph of the November 28 piece written by Moshe Edri, that “the cave is believed to be the burial site of the Jewish and Muslim patriarch Abraham. It also is revered as the burial site of other Jewish patriarchs and matriarchs and is considered the second holiest site in Judaism.”

In AP’s estimation, the Jewish people’s ancient connection to Hebron is but an afterthought.

But research has shown that while eight out of 10 people will scan a headline, only two out of those eight will read the remainder of the text. Accordingly, the vast majority of AP readers are likely to have come away believing that Israel’s presence is little more than a provocation that has turned Hebron into one of the “most contentious spots in the occupied West Bank.”

(full article online)









						AP Demotes Second Holiest Place in Judaism to ‘West Bank Site’, Ignores Recent Hamas Threat Against Hebron’s Jews | Honest Reporting
					

Imagine if one of the world’s leading news publications in a headline referred to Washington DC merely as a ‘City on the Potomac River.’ Yet this is




					honestreporting.com


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## Sixties Fan

The New York Times recently released a documentary called Mission Hebron, where supposed whistleblowers from the IDF speak out against what they claim happens in Hebron. However, the New York Times left out one major detail, four of the six ex-soldiers are professional activists for Breaking the Silence and Peace Now. 

Watch as we break down their lies and propaganda.


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

As much as Abdeed would like readers to view the conflict through the lens of race, there are no racial litmus tests determining who can reside in Israeli communities within the territories captured by Israel during the 1967 war.  The only requirement is citizenship or (as in the case of east Jerusalem Palestinians) permanent residence.  As with the oft-repeated lie of “Jews-only roads” in the West Bank, Palestinians like Abdeed are intent on obfuscating Palestinian terrorism, incitement and endemic antisemitism, by hoodwinking readers into believing that the Israeli-Palestinian issue is primarily fueled by _Jewish_ racism.

Abdeed continues by writing that Hotovely has “incited against Palestinians”, claiming they are “thieves of history”.

However, the speech in question was during a 2017 Knesset debate in which Hotovely, then deputy foreign minister, was condemning UNESCO’s decision to declare Hebron and the Cave of the Patriarchs endangered “Palestinian heritage” sites – which was widely condemned for erasing the Jewish connection to the sites.  Hotovely was arguing that those denying that historical connection were “thieves of history”.

Then, Abdeed writes that “Hotovely opposes marriage between Palestinians and Jews, and has invited the far right Jewish group Lehava to speak at the Israeli parliament”.

Hotovely, like many Jews both in Israel and the diaspora, oppose intermarriage as – given Jews’ minuscule numbers – it’s considered a threat to Jewish survival.  Though a very contentious issue within the Jewish community, the suggestion that the desire to have Jews marry other Jews is racist is absurd. For instance, polls have shown that nearly two-thirds of Israeli Arabs wouldn’t marry someone from outside the religion.  Are Arab Muslims racist for wanting their children to marry Muslims?

The specific accusation regarding Hotovely and Lehava is one that widely repeated, and extremely misleading.

In 2011, when Hotovely was an MK and on the Knesset Committee for the Advancement of Women, she hosted a hearing on the subject in honor of Jewish Identity Day.  Whilst Lehava was one of many groups allowed to speak during the hearing, Hotovely has been clear that she strongly opposes the group’s extreme ideology.  She was quoted in the Jewish Chronicle in April saying  she “had no time for the sort of divisiveness shown by the extremist group” and that she “was not and never will be associated with Lehava and what it stands for”.

The distortions continue, as Abdeed alleges that, in her first speech as ambassador, “Hotovely denied the Nakba”.

During the 2020 speech in question, Hotovely never claimed that the Nakba (the displacement of 700,000 Palestinians during the 1948 Arab war against the nascent Jewish state) never happened.  Rather, she took aim at the “lies” spread by the Nakba Day Movement, including their suggestion that Jews who emigrated to pre-state Israel were “colonialists” with no roots in the region, as well as their denial of the ethnic cleansing of 800,000 Jews from Arab lands.

Abdeed then alleges that Hotovely “has also pushed for the formal annexation of the West Bank while denying citizenship to its millions of Palestinians“.  However, in the comments attributed to Hotovely, which date back over a decade, she was clear that in any such scenario, Palestinians would in fact be granted “full citizenship”.

Then, Abdeed finally levels with his readers about one thing: it isn’t only Hotovely he’s trying to ban, but any and all Israelis representing their country.  “I did not attend this protest just because of Hotovely’s personal track record”, he wrote. “I protested because, to us, an Israeli ambassador represents an apartheid regime which dominates one people for the benefit of another”.  He later clarifies any Israeli diplomat or politician is intrinsically “incompatible with our communities’ ideals, and should not be legitimised in British political spaces”.

It isn’t merely Israeli ‘officials’ that activists like Abdeed object to.

LSE Students for Justice in Palestine expressed support for the intimidation campaign against a Israeli woman named Adi Peled who was scheduled to appear at a Jewish Society Shabbat dinner focusing on Mizrachi Heritage Week.  Warwick Action for Palestine objected not only to the Israeli speaker (who doesn’t work for Israel’s government), but also because the event was co-sponsored by the pro-Israel group Stand With Us, who they smeared as “Islamophobic and far-right”. The bullying and fear of violence forced the Shabbat event to be cancelled.

(full article online)









						In the Indy, LSE student calls no-platforming Zionism a "moral obligation"
					

Sayf Abdeen is a Diversity, Inclusion and Overseas officer at London School of Economics (LSE) Law Society, and is one of the students who opposed the Israeli A




					camera-uk.org


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## Sixties Fan

It’s of course true that only when news reports provide the full picture can you really know what happened.  However, as we’ve demonstrated continually, when it comes to Israel, _Guardian_ news consumers are consistently only given half the picture – a pattern evident in a recent article they published about West Bank violence.

The three thousand plus word_ Guardian_ article by Donald Macintyre (“How settler violence is fueling West Bank tension”, Nov. 28) focuses entirely on Israeli attacks against Palestinians, yet fails to devote even a word to Palestinian violence against Israelis.

Palestinian terror erased

To get a sense of how misleading the omission is, an Aug. 2020 report by Israel’s Justice Ministry, based on data compiled by Israel’s Security Agency, concluded that most acts of violence in the West Bank are committed by Palestinians against Israeli settlers – not, as the Guardian would have you believe, the other way around.







Ministry of Justice: Israel’s Investigation and Prosecution of Ideologically Motivated Offences Against Palestinians in the West Bank, Aug. 2020.
However, as illustrated in our monthly reports on BBC coverage of Palestinian terror incidents, the overwhelming majority of Palestinian attacks against Israelis in Judea and Samaria go unreported by most media outlets.

The following graph was published by Israel’s Security Agency.  Note the number of monthly Palestinian attacks in the West Bank / Judea and Samaria (in green) over a four month period in 2021.

(full article online)









						Guardian report on "West Bank tension" omits half of the story
					

This award-winning Guardian advert aired in 1986.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SsccRkLLzU  It's of course true that only when news reports provide the




					camera-uk.org


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## Sixties Fan

(Fascinating, even the swamp the Arabs never bothered to drain and build on is "occupied territory".
At least the Jews paid for that swamp before building on it.  Not a word from the Arabs, then )


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## Sixties Fan

The United Nations General Assembly approved a resolution 129-11 on Wednesday, that disavowed Jewish ties to the Temple Mount and called it solely by its Muslim name of al-Haram al-Sharif.

The text, referred to as the "Jerusalem resolution," is part of a push by the Palestinian Authority and the Arab states across the UN system to rebrand Judaism's most holy site and as an exclusively Islamic one.

The United States, which opposed the text, said that the omission of inclusive terminology for the site sacred to three faiths was of "real and serious concern." 

"It is morally, historically and politically wrong for members of this body to support language that denies" both the Jewish and Christian connections to the Temple Mount and al-Haram al-Sharif.

(full article online)









						129 nations ignore Jewish ties to Temple Mount, call it solely Muslim
					

The United States, which opposed the text, said that the omission of inclusive terminology for the site sacred to three faiths was of "real and serious concern."




					www.jpost.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

The common theme of anti-zionist revisionist history is that the Jews enjoyed a good life under Muslim rule. They only moved to Israel because the left failed to build its utopian tyranny.

The implicit underlying idea is that had the Arab world undergone a true leftist revolution, Israel would never have existed or even been needed. Instead, Jews, Turks, and Arabs would have all lived happily in a socialist utopia. No matter how thoroughly the reality of the Soviet Union discredited this sort of antisemitism wrapped in utopian garb, leftists can never abandon it.

Rather than some sort of insightful perspective, this just copies and pastes the old Communist arguments against Zionism into an Arab-Muslim context. Not only isn’t this sort of revisionist history new, but its Jewish proponents are just building on the old propaganda of Arab Socialist academics demanding that Jews accept their place in their own nationalist schemes.

All it takes is believing that the Jews were never a people, and never had a nation or a history.

Revisionist history of this sort is padded out with interviews with elderly Jewish refugees from Muslim countries with a fondness for Arabic. The resulting exercises are as hollow as interviews with German Jewish refugees who retain a fondness for Goethe and Berlin cafes.

But what’s old hat in the middle east looks like an exciting new idea in American academia.

Jews, like all minorities, were always oppressed under Muslim rule. While there were periods of greater and lighter persecution, the myth that Sephardi Jews living under Sharia law had it easier was largely a product of Ashkenazi Jewish mythmaking and local appeasement.

While Sternfeld and Bashkin appropriate the history and suffering of Sephardi Jews, both of them carry typical European Ashkenazi last names. Sternfeld even celebrated his NEH cash with “I am beyond verklempt to share the news” in the typical minstrel show comic Yiddishism embraced by anti-Israel activists trying and failing to appropriate Jewishness.

Wondering why Sephardi Jews "vote for right-wing parties", Bashkin agonized, "I often asked myself if I had been born to Iraqi Jewish Israeli parents, what my own political inclinations might have been".

The agenda behind appropriating the Sephardi experience is to justify antisemitic violence against some Jews. Or as Campos writes in a piece on the Hebron massacre of Jewish men, women and children of "the degree to which indigenous Jews lived intimitately within the broader Palestinian community". Jews who had remained behind under Muslim rule were “indigenous” while those who had been expelled and returned to their homeland were not.

(full article online)









						The National Endowment for the Humanities Spends $250K to Fund a 1619 Project for Israel | FrontpageMag
					

Daniel Greenfield is a Shillman Journalism Fellow at the David Horowitz Freedom Center specializing in investigative reporting on the Left and Islamic




					www.frontpagemag.com


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## Sixties Fan

Listeners hear nothing at all about the ancient history of Jews in what later became known as Palestine or that they continued to inhabit the region for thousands of years. The fact that the word Zion is a synonym for Jerusalem is absent from Anand’s explanation of Zionism and she erases the connection of Jews to the land that is part of their identity, with or without Zionism.

Anand: “Now a Zionist is someone who supports the creation of a Jewish nation _in_ Palestine. The word comes from one of the hills of ancient Jerusalem called Zion. Herzl and the congress invited more than 200 delegates to Basel, Switzerland and held a symbolic parliament – a chance for Jews to express their determination for nationhood.”

Listeners then hear another narrative advancing but highly dubious story which Bowen has promoted in the past.

Bowen: “After the conference…ahm…some European Rabbis went to Palestine, which was then part of the Ottoman Empire, to see the territory which at that time…it was still being debated but was a potential site for a Jewish state. And they sent back a telegram and they said the bride is beautiful but she’s married to somebody else. In other words, the land is great but hang on, there are _people_ here.”

In other words, in the opening minutes of this programme, Bowen and Anand have erased Jewish connections to the land but twice highlighted those of non-Jewish inhabitants.

Listeners then hear some problematic history:

Anand: “So Jeremy, what is the key event in 1917 that brings the British into this whole conflict?”

Bowen: “In 1917 British Empire forces led by General Allenby captured Jerusalem – they captured Palestine – and he entered the Old City. Back in the UK, in London, notable British Jews had been _pressuring_ the British government to declare that it would be a site for a future Jewish state. They issued a statement which became known as the Balfour Declaration where they declared that the British authorities would look with favour on establishing a homeland for Jews _in_ that territory. Now within _that_ there was a built-in contradiction because it said it was without prejudice to the rights of people already living there. They didn’t say Arabs or Palestinians or anything like that. As things turned out, you couldn’t really have one without the other happening.”

While Allenby did indeed capture Jerusalem in December 1917, as we have previously had cause to note in relation to Bowen’s portrayals of those events, British forces did not complete their First World War ‘Sinai and Palestine Campaign’ until October 30th 1918 – almost a year after the Balfour Declaration was issued.

Bowen’s predictable portrayal of the Balfour Declaration fails to clarify that the part referring to what he describes as “the rights of people already living there” actually specifies “civil and religious rights” rather than political rights.

Ignoring decades of Jewish immigration to Palestine, the Mandate for Palestine and the fact that the League of Nations had assigned the territory to the creation of a Jewish national home, Anand goes on to distort history yet again:

(full article online)









						BBC WS radio’s ‘The Explanation’ flops on Palestinian-Israeli conflict – part one
					

BBC World Service radio programming currently includes a series called ‘The Explanation’ which is described as follows: “The Explanation is a snackable a




					camera-uk.org


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## Sixties Fan

If the makers of this programme really intended to provide the BBC’s worldwide listeners with an explanation of the Arab-Israeli conflict and the Palestinian-Israeli sub-conflict, its numerous factual errors, highly significant omissions and generous use of context-free archive recordings clearly compromised that aim.

The fact that historic Jewish connections to the land were erased and the conflict was portrayed as being one between ‘indigenous’ Palestinians and Jewish immigrants who “began moving to Palestine” in “the 1930s and 40s” materially misleads BBC audiences. The fact that no real discussion of decades of Arab and Palestinian rejections of Jewish historical claims to the land and proposed solutions to the conflict was heard throughout the entire programme is clear indication of its lack of gravity.  

If, however, this programme was merely intended to promote and reinforce well-worn, politically motivated narratives on topics crucial to understanding of its subject matter such as the 1947 Partition Plan, the Balfour Declaration, the Six Day War, Rabin’s assassination and the Oslo Accords, it undoubtedly succeeded. Listeners to this programme heard nothing that they have not heard dozens of times in the past from the BBC’s Middle East editor and his colleagues.

(full article online)









						BBC WS radio’s ‘The Explanation’ flops on Palestinian-Israeli conflict – part two
					

Previously we discussed the first half of the November 27th edition of a BBC World Service radio programme called ‘The Explanation’ in which Anu Anand and J




					camera-uk.org


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## Sixties Fan

Stillman says Bashkin is at “her insightful best” in describing the intellectual and cultural ferment in the Iraq of the 1920s, 1930s and 1940s. However, her chronicling of the watershed events of the 1940s leading up to the mass exodus of 1951 “lacks the same degree of analytical insight,” he writes.

“This is due, I suggest, to her basic approach as a cultural studies scholar who interprets texts, but does not fully take into account the actual events, people, and politics. It is also due to a priori ideological assumptions. Bashkin from the very outset acknowledges her intellectual debt to contrarians such Sami Zubaida, Ella Shohat and Gilbert Achcar, and the ghost of Edward Said often lurks in the background un-named. Previous historical work on the Jews of the Islamic world is reduced to an oversimplified caricature: ‘a model of harmonious coexistence’ or ‘a tale of perpetual persecution,’ and ‘alongside these ideas, an orientalist interpretation.’

“More seriously, there is an element of naïve wishful thinking which constantly views positive examples of Jewish acculturation and patriotism, on the one hand, and the openness of some Arab liberal intellectuals and politicians, on the other, as proving that the dark forces of radical Arab nationalism were not really as powerful as they appeared in retrospect.”

A shared culture and language with Arabs did not save the Jews of Iraq, any more than the Jewish contribution to German culture or their love of Mendelssohn and Goethe saved German Jews from Nazism. All MENA Jews, including anti-Zionists, Communists and the most Arabized, were forced to take the road to exile. And thus a study of how groups interacted before the great exodus becomes irrelevant, because it does not take into account actual events, political factors and actors such as Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Arab League, Nasser and Saddam, leading to the exclusion and persecution of Jews and other minorities.









						US taxpayers to fund revisionist, anti-Zionist history
					

The National Endowment for the Humanities has awarded a $250,000 grant to rewrite the history of the Jews in the Middle East.




					www.jns.org


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## Sixties Fan

I've mentioned that literally every Sunday through Thursday, Jews visit the Temple Mount and each time where are headlines in the Arab world about how the "stormed Al Aqsa Mosque."

On Sunday, PA religious affairs ministry published statistics of how many times Jews "stormed" the Temple Mount in November.

They said it happened 22 times.

Let's look at a calendar of November:









						22 stormings in November!
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

Every week, the official Palestinian Wafa news agency publishes an unintentionally funny list of articles in the Israeli media that they claim show Israeli "racism and incitement."

Practically none of their examples ever show actual incitement or racism. 

Examples from this week's edition include an article that quoted a Jew who lives in Judea and Samaria who says that there is a 50% chance of him being hit by a stone when he passes by the Al Lubban school. Another article in Israel Hayom called for a law against teaching terrorism in schools, in the wake of an Arab teacher murdering a Jew in Jerusalem and the discovery that he taught his students to hate Jews.





Perhaps the craziest example of "racism and incitement" was a TV report from Kan that described the recent unearthing of a building in Yavne from the era of the Sanhedrin immediately after the destruction of the Temple. The story showed evidence that Jews lived in the building.

To Palestinians, anything that proves that Jews lived in Israel before the 20th century is clearly incitement against them, because it shows that Jews were there before Arabs.

Therefore, it is "racist."










						Palestinians consider news of archaeological proof of Jews in Israel to be "incitement and racism"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

(The right to invent anything they want in order to destroy the indigenous people of the land over the people who invaded it from the 7th century century CE on.   Amazing how the human mind works, and Jew hatred works in the Christian and Muslim minds )


https://twitter.com/chloesantaub

"as Palestinians become more and more dispensable, Gaza and the West Bank become less and less like Bantustans and more and more like reservations (or, for that matter, like the Warsaw Ghetto). Porous borders do not offer a way out."

"Thus it is significant that the feminized, finance-oriented (or, for that matter, wandering) Jew of European anti-Semitism should assert an aggressively masculine agricultural self-identification in Palestine"

“Palestine is a different case, first because it was colonized in twentieth century, and second, because it was colonised by people with a historical counterclaim to indigeneity”

“the achievement of the Zionist national project has been predicated on the destruction of the Palestinian one"

"Zionism mirrored the persecutors’ anti-Semitism"

"Zionism is...legitimated by European colonialism...Palestinians have emphasized [its]...status as a settler colonialism sans metropole driven by diasporic nationalism&a desire for racial exclusivity...which has been enacted violently&with disastrous consequences for Palestinian"

"The illegal continuous development of the settlements in the Occupied Territories points towards a larger imperial project of expanding the boundaries of Israel not only to the full extent of the Occupied Territories but from there...to territories in Jordan and elsewhere"

"Many have noted that at least 85 percent of the wall cuts directly into Palestinian territory, thereby calling into question the rationale provided by the Israeli state that the wall is necessary to protect Israel’s borders"


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Every week, the official Palestinian Wafa news agency publishes an unintentionally funny list of articles in the Israeli media that they claim show Israeli "racism and incitement."
> 
> Practically none of their examples ever show actual incitement or racism.
> 
> Examples from this week's edition include an article that quoted a Jew who lives in Judea and Samaria who says that there is a 50% chance of him being hit by a stone when he passes by the Al Lubban school. Another article in Israel Hayom called for a law against teaching terrorism in schools, in the wake of an Arab teacher murdering a Jew in Jerusalem and the discovery that he taught his students to hate Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps the craziest example of "racism and incitement" was a TV report from Kan that described the recent unearthing of a building in Yavne from the era of the Sanhedrin immediately after the destruction of the Temple. The story showed evidence that Jews lived in the building.
> 
> To Palestinians, anything that proves that Jews lived in Israel before the 20th century is clearly incitement against them, because it shows that Jews were there before Arabs.
> 
> Therefore, it is "racist."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians consider news of archaeological proof of Jews in Israel to be "incitement and racism"
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com



That's BS. The Arabs suggested that the Holocaust survivors be given the best land in Germany.. The Jews were a tiny minority in Palestine from 70 AD until the 1930s.

Exaggeration in the Old Testament about millions of Jews in Palestine is the norm..









						Ancient Jerusalem: The Village, the Town, the City
					

Ancient Jerusalem made such an enormous impact on Western civilization that it’s hard to fathom how small its population really was.




					www.biblicalarchaeology.org
				




Excerpt:

The first period that Geva considers in his study is from the 18th–11th centuries B.C.E. (Middle Bronze Age II to Iron Age I, in archaeological terms), the period before the arrival of the Israelites. Jerusalem was then confined to the small spur south of the Temple Mount known today as the City of David. As Geva reminds us, even then Jerusalem “was the center of an important territorial entity.” From this period, the area includes a massive fortification system that has recently been excavated. Overall, however, the area comprises only about 11–12 acres. Geva estimates the population of the city during this period at between 500 and 700 “at most.” (Previously other prominent scholars had estimated Jerusalem’s population in this period as 880–1,100, 1,000, 2,500, 3,000; still this is hardly what we would consider a metropolis.)


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> That's BS. The Arabs suggested that the Holocaust survivors be given the best land in Germany.. The Jews were a tiny minority in Palestine from 70 AD until the 1930s.
> 
> Exaggeration in the Old Testament about millions of Jews in Palestine is the norm..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ancient Jerusalem: The Village, the Town, the City
> 
> 
> Ancient Jerusalem made such an enormous impact on Western civilization that it’s hard to fathom how small its population really was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.biblicalarchaeology.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Excerpt:
> 
> The first period that Geva considers in his study is from the 18th–11th centuries B.C.E. (Middle Bronze Age II to Iron Age I, in archaeological terms), the period before the arrival of the Israelites. Jerusalem was then confined to the small spur south of the Temple Mount known today as the City of David. As Geva reminds us, even then Jerusalem “was the center of an important territorial entity.” From this period, the area includes a massive fortification system that has recently been excavated. Overall, however, the area comprises only about 11–12 acres. Geva estimates the population of the city during this period at between 500 and 700 “at most.” (Previously other prominent scholars had estimated Jerusalem’s population in this period as 880–1,100, 1,000, 2,500, 3,000; still this is hardly what we would consider a metropolis.)


When you bother addressing what the article actually said, let us know.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> When you bother addressing what the article actually said, let us know.



There is far more to the  history of Palestine and the Levant than Jewish history even without the borrowed myths and population exaggerations.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> There is far more to the  history of Palestine and the Levant than Jewish history even without the borrowed myths and population exaggerations.


But you always refuse to deal with the facts of the matter even in answering an article you truly are not interested in answering at all.

All you want to do is repeat your generalizations to fool all people like yourself who wish to believe, from their Christian or Islamic education, that Jews are "European Colonizers" who have "stolen" land from the Palestinians.

You tell lie after lie, generalization after generalization in order to minimize to the point of making Disappear.......the facts of the matter.

ARABS (Palestinians) are from Arabia Peninsula.

JEWS. are from the ancient land of Canaan, aka Israel, aka, Judea, aka, Palestine, aka Israel again.


None of your generalizations or attempts to dismiss the absolute total fact that Jews, Ashkenazi, Mizrahi or Sephardi, ARE and always have been the indigenous people of the land and the rightful OWNERS of that land just as the Kurds are the indigenous and rightful owners of theirs, no matter how many Arabs, or Turks wish to take that land away from them.


Spare us of your magic numbers.

Land taken from Indigenous First Nation tribes are still rightfully theirs, no matter if they now live on that land, or if there are just a dozen on them living on it.


Land taken by the Greek, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Muslims, the Crusaders, the Ottomans, the British has ALWAYS been considered the Jewish homeland by
each and every one of those invaders.


Your love for Arabs and their pursuit in the taking away the 20% of what is left of the Jewish Homeland from the Jewish people themselves is an insult to ALL indigenous people on the planet.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Anti-Zionists are fond of claiming that Israel is a colonial enterprise of white Ashkenazi Jews—as though Jews exiled to Europe centuries ago from the Middle East should be ineligible to return. Ironic, too, that Hitler insisted German Ashkenazi Jews were anything but white—and therefore should be killed.

This Catch 22 has made it difficult for Jews to find welcome anywhere—in exile and in their ancient homeland.


What most anti-Zionists miss is that despite the perception that resettling Israel was largely (though not completely) an Ashkenazi initiative, the majority of today’s Israelis are ancestors of refugees from the Middle East and Africa. Most are brown-, black- or olive-skinned—not what anyone could describe as white—and as a group are called Mizrahi (Eastern) Jews.

Yet even this fact doesn’t save Israel’s Jews.

In another effort to shut down the truth of the Jewish people, a few weeks ago an Israeli Mizrahi speaker was “cancelled” by anti-Zionist and pro-Palestinian forces at the United Kingdom’s Warwick University. She was prevented from speaking of her ancestry for Mizrahi Heritage Week. You may have missed this, since the squelching of speech for pro-Israel voices on college campuses is no longer of media interest.

While for millennia Jews lived with unbroken continuity in the land of Israel, many Jews also lived in neighboring countries, predating the birth of Islam and the Arab conquest, occupation and colonization of the region. While many think of the region today as “Arab,” places like Morocco, Syria and Egypt were invaded 1,300 years ago by Muslims, and their indigenous populations killed or forced to convert and adopt the Arabic language and culture.

Few indigenous populations survived the centuries of onslaught on their authentic identity, and simply disappeared. Despite having second-class, dhimmi status imposed on them by Muslim rulers, Jews refused to relinquish their culture and tradition. They were made subservient to the majoritarian Muslims, who had arrived via invasion and colonization.

This history of conquest, occupation and colonization is one many anti-Zionists would like to hide, since it turns every popular Middle East narrative on its head. Today, strong forces and lobbies ensure that anything exposing Muslim colonial history is censored.

(full article online)









						How the true story of Mizrahi Jews defeats anti-Zionist mythology
					

The Mizrahi heritage story dispels the false mythology that Arabs or Muslims are indigenous to the region, that the Jews came from distant lands.




					www.jns.org


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## Sixties Fan

For a Jew, the Temple Mount is everything. We pray facing the Temple Mount. We break a glass at weddings in longing for our full return to the Temple Mount. 

The mantra of Chanukah is “Nes Gadol Hayah Sham”, which means “A great miracle happened there” – with “there” being none other than the Temple Mount.

It is not coincidence that the UN tried to disconnect the Jewish People from the Temple Mount during the very festival of Chanukah.

Chanukah marked the victory of ancient and indigenous Jews against the world’s greatest power, with the focal point being a miracle of oil which occurred on the Temple Mount itself. 

Jewish children around the world, to this day – this past week – light candles to publicize the miracle that the Jewish people took back our Holy Temple, on the Temple Mount, which we built.

We have seen these kinds of Jew-haters before. We have survived their kind before. And, while the names of ancient Jew-haters have been lost to history, everyone knows the name of the Maccabees.

This recent attempt to defile our Temple Mount today is the same as the colonial Greek empire’s attempt all those years ago. The Greek empire tried to colonialize through the sword, the UN tries to colonialize under the banner of “cultural appropriation.”

This is yet another attempt to colonize us and our culture. To make us think and feel like something we are not.

(full article online)









						For a Jew, the Temple Mount is Everything | United with Israel
					

Any attempt to sever our ties to our holiest place, where the First and Second Temples stood, just makes us unify around our indigenous homeland even more. By Brooke Goldstein, founder and executive director, The Lawfare Project For a Jew, the Temple Mount is everything. We pray facing the...




					unitedwithisrael.org


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Mindful

For many Jewish kids, the Santa talk is the first time they are confronted with the reality of being Jews in a Christian-dominated society. They learn how to lie about their beliefs in order to preserve the fragile feelings of the majority and not incur the wrath of Christian adults. In teaching our Jewish kids not to ruin Christmas for their friends, there’s an element of “keep your head down and give them no reason to hurt you.”

My fellow New York Jews may find this perspective alien, paranoid, or an overreaction. But, having grown up in West Texas, my first reaction to other parents’ pronouncements of “don’t let your kid ruin Christmas” is a gut punch of ancestral fear. Because here’s the thing: whether Christian parents intend it or not, there’s an implied “or else” behind those words. History has not been kind to Jews who anger their Christian neighbors — especially by upsetting their children. 

While our Christian neighbors’ demand for our “help” in preserving the Santa magic may seem benign, it’s actually far from it. 









						Our Jewish Kids Shouldn't Have to Lie About Santa – Kveller
					

It’s December, which means Jewish parents in majority-Christian countries like the United States must face the Santa question.  No, not the one about whether or not your kid has been “good” this year. I’m talking about the question of how to keep your child from being the Grinch who ruins...




					www.kveller.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Every week, the official Palestinian Wafa news agency publishes an unintentionally funny list of articles in the Israeli media that they claim show Israeli "racism and incitement."
> 
> Practically none of their examples ever show actual incitement or racism.
> 
> Examples from this week's edition include an article that quoted a Jew who lives in Judea and Samaria who says that there is a 50% chance of him being hit by a stone when he passes by the Al Lubban school. Another article in Israel Hayom called for a law against teaching terrorism in schools, in the wake of an Arab teacher murdering a Jew in Jerusalem and the discovery that he taught his students to hate Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps the craziest example of "racism and incitement" was a TV report from Kan that described the recent unearthing of a building in Yavne from the era of the Sanhedrin immediately after the destruction of the Temple. The story showed evidence that Jews lived in the building.
> 
> To Palestinians, anything that proves that Jews lived in Israel before the 20th century is clearly incitement against them, because it shows that Jews were there before Arabs.
> 
> Therefore, it is "racist."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians consider news of archaeological proof of Jews in Israel to be "incitement and racism"
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com



Why would you tell such a stupid lie about what Arabs believe?

Moses and Abraham both had Arab wives.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


>



Palestine was a province of Syria as far back as 500 BC.


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## surada

Mindful said:


> For many Jewish kids, the Santa talk is the first time they are confronted with the reality of being Jews in a Christian-dominated society. They learn how to lie about their beliefs in order to preserve the fragile feelings of the majority and not incur the wrath of Christian adults. In teaching our Jewish kids not to ruin Christmas for their friends, there’s an element of “keep your head down and give them no reason to hurt you.”
> 
> My fellow New York Jews may find this perspective alien, paranoid, or an overreaction. But, having grown up in West Texas, my first reaction to other parents’ pronouncements of “don’t let your kid ruin Christmas” is a gut punch of ancestral fear. Because here’s the thing: whether Christian parents intend it or not, there’s an implied “or else” behind those words. History has not been kind to Jews who anger their Christian neighbors — especially by upsetting their children.
> 
> While our Christian neighbors’ demand for our “help” in preserving the Santa magic may seem benign, it’s actually far from it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our Jewish Kids Shouldn't Have to Lie About Santa – Kveller
> 
> 
> It’s December, which means Jewish parents in majority-Christian countries like the United States must face the Santa question.  No, not the one about whether or not your kid has been “good” this year. I’m talking about the question of how to keep your child from being the Grinch who ruins...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kveller.com



An implied threat? Are you kidding? OMG you're being victimized again.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Why would you tell such a stupid lie about what Arabs believe?
> 
> Moses and Abraham both had Arab wives.


What is it exactly that you did not understand this time?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Palestine was a province of Syria as far back as 500 BC.


Do not make me give the lesson about the word Palestine again. Once was enough.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> An implied threat? Are you kidding? OMG you're being victimized again.


What is Surada, the victim of ignorance about Christian and Islamic history, crying about now?


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Do not make me give the lesson about the word Palestine again. Once was enough.



If you know, why continue to lie?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> If you know, why continue to lie?


You are the one who goes on every thread rewriting Jewish History.
We know why you choose to do so.


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## Mindful

surada said:


> An implied threat? Are you kidding? OMG you're being victimized again.



Am I?

Seems like you’re  doing a good job.


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## surada

Mindful said:


> Am I?
> 
> Seems like you’re  doing a good job.



I am just surprised that you think Christian parents are threatening you over Santa Claus.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> I am just surprised that you think Christian parents are threatening you over Santa Claus.


If you ever, and I do mean E V E R, bother to read an article in its entirety an discuss what is written in it......you are more than welcome to come discuss it.

Instead, of course, you do nothing but write cheap shots about anything that does not make sense to you, although I do believe that you do know very well what goes on in some Christian countries in relation to how Jews have been and are being treated there.

Let us see you discuss what that article says, now.


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## rylah

surada said:


> There is far more to the  history of Palestine and the Levant than Jewish history even without the borrowed myths and population exaggerations.



The question remains,
if there is far more to the history of the Levant,
then why the insistence to frame it in rejection to Jewish history?

Maybe there's a much deeper recognition lurking in your collective unconscious,
after all, those who reject Israel claim to also be Israel in some way or another...


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> The question remains,
> if there is far more to the history of the Levant,
> then why the insistence to frame it in rejection to Jews history?
> 
> Maybe there's a much deeper recognition lurking in your collective unconscious,
> after all, all who reject Israel pertain to also be them in some way or another...



Oh that's nonsense.. The Jews suffered terribly in Europe and in Russia and turned into bullies once they found sanctuary in Palestine. Its something they should fix instead of trying to justfy,


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Oh that's nonsense.. The Jews suffered terribly in Europe and in Russia and turned into bullies once they found sanctuary in Palestine. Its something they should fix instead of trying to justfy,


You have zero proof to any of what you just wrote, just the narrative the Muslims and Christians have been dishing since Israel survived an attack from 7 Arab countries.

If they cannot destroy Israel with military force, they decided to do it by creating a whole new history for the region.

And how you have fallen for it.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> Oh that's nonsense.. The Jews suffered terribly in Europe and in Russia and turned into bullies once they found sanctuary in Palestine. Its something they should fix instead of trying to justfy,



See you can only address Jewish history outside the Levant,
and frame the history of the Levant in rejection of Jewish history.
Usually, when there's something you're so afraid to talk about - what does it suggest?

Same, why are Muslims, so afraid of Jewish prayer on the Temple Mount,
because they think it's false, or they don't feel at home?


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## Mindful

surada said:


> I am just surprised that you think Christian parents are threatening you over Santa Claus.



Didn’t know they were.


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## rylah

2,000-Year-Old Hasmonean Oil Lamp Discovered in Jerusalem on Eve of Hanukkah
					

Soot marks had accumulated at the bottom of the lamp, indicating the lamp was used.




					www.jewishpress.com
				











						On Last Day of Hanukkah, Arab Caught With Ancient Hasmonean-Era Artifacts
					

Among the items seized were a Hasmonean coin dating from the time of Matityahu Antigonus in the first century BCE with an embossment of the Temple Menorah.




					www.jewishpress.com


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## Sixties Fan

> My vision for Palestine is one that...doesn't exclude religious communities, doesn't white people out. My vision for Palestine is what Palestine was! It's not a false hypothetical situation in the future: it's one that existed!  People dignified and held high! That's the Palestine that I want.
> 
> So don't come to me with your present reality of ethnically cleansing Palestinian Muslims and Christians and saying we have to do this because if we cede to these barbaric people then they will wipe us off the planet. That's not true and we have a history that is older than seven[ty] years.



He sounds so tolerant! 

Unfortunately for him, this vision is a whitewash of the reality of Jews and Christians under Muslim rule over the centuries, and today as well. After all, we only have to see how Christianity has dwindled under Muslim rule even in the past few decades to see how tolerant Muslims have been - let alone the ethnic cleansing that Jews have suffered under Muslim rule only seventy years ago.



The Palestine that he wants to return to is one where Jews would be beaten if they dared walk past the seventh step of the Tomb of the Patriarchs, where Jews would be killed if they entered the Temple Mount, where Jews would be attacked if they brought folding chairs to the Western Wall to pray. The Palestine that he envisions is one where Jews and Christians know their place is to be humble supplicants from their Muslim masters - or else.

What was it like to be a Jew in Palestine under Muslim rule? James Finn, the British consul to Jerusalem in the mid 19th century, describes it:




> In times gone by these native Jews had their full share of suffering from the general tyrannical conduct of the Moslems, and, having no resources for maintenance in the Holy Land, they were sustained, though barely, by contributions from synagogues all over the world. This mode of supply being understood by the Moslems, they were subjected to exactions and plunder on its account from generation to generation(individuals among them, however, holding occasionally lucrative offices for a tune). This oppression proved one of the causes which have entailed on the community a frightful incubus of debt, the payment of interest on which is a heavy charge upon the income derived from abroad.
> 
> ... The Jews are humiliated by the payment, through the Chief Rabbi, of pensions to Moslem local exactors, for instance the sum of 300£. a year to the Effendi whose house adjoins the ' wailing place,' or fragment of the western wall of the Temple enclosure, for permission to pray there; 100£. a year to the villagers of Siloam for not disturbing the graves on the slope of the Mount of Olives ; 50£ a year to the Ta'amra Arabs for not injuring the Sepulchre of Rachel near Bethlehem, and about 10£ a year to Sheikh Abu Gosh for not molesting their people on the high road to Jaffa, although he was highly paid by the Turkish Government as Warden of that road. All these are mere exactions made upon their excessive timidity, which it is disgraceful to the Turkish Government to allow to be practised. The figures are copied from their humble appeals occasionally made to the synagogues in Europe. Other minor impositions were laid upon them which they were afraid to discontinue to pay, such as, to one man (Moslem) for superintending the slaughtering of cattle by themselves for food, to see that it is performed by the Sephardi Eabbi who has purchased his license to do it. Periodical presents likewise of sugar, etc., to the principal Moslems at their festivals.
> 
> The Hebron Jews were more exposed than even those in Jerusalem to rough usage from the natives, and they had suffered greatly from the tyrannies of the brutal ' Abderrahhman el 'Amer.


This barely scratches the surface. 

An 1852 account describes how Jews had to hide any indication of owning property or goods, because the Arabs would steal them. Jews in Palestine suffered pogroms. - not just in 1929.  The word "Jew" was (and remains) an epithet in the Arab world. 

This is the life that Omar Suleiman wants Jews to return to. 

(full article online)









						No, Palestine was never a haven for religious freedom - until Israel
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> You have zero proof to any of what you just wrote, just the narrative the Muslims and Christians have been dishing since Israel survived an attack from 7 Arab countries.
> 
> If they cannot destroy Israel with military force, they decided to do it by creating a whole new history for the region.
> 
> And how you have fallen for it.



Name the SEVEN Arab countries that attacked Israel.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> He sounds so tolerant!
> 
> Unfortunately for him, this vision is a whitewash of the reality of Jews and Christians under Muslim rule over the centuries, and today as well. After all, we only have to see how Christianity has dwindled under Muslim rule even in the past few decades to see how tolerant Muslims have been - let alone the ethnic cleansing that Jews have suffered under Muslim rule only seventy years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestine that he wants to return to is one where Jews would be beaten if they dared walk past the seventh step of the Tomb of the Patriarchs, where Jews would be killed if they entered the Temple Mount, where Jews would be attacked if they brought folding chairs to the Western Wall to pray. The Palestine that he envisions is one where Jews and Christians know their place is to be humble supplicants from their Muslim masters - or else.
> 
> What was it like to be a Jew in Palestine under Muslim rule? James Finn, the British consul to Jerusalem in the mid 19th century, describes it:
> 
> 
> 
> This barely scratches the surface.
> 
> An 1852 account describes how Jews had to hide any indication of owning property or goods, because the Arabs would steal them. Jews in Palestine suffered pogroms. - not just in 1929.  The word "Jew" was (and remains) an epithet in the Arab world.
> 
> This is the life that Omar Suleiman wants Jews to return to.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, Palestine was never a haven for religious freedom - until Israel
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com



Idiot. The Bedouin stole from everyone..Jews, Muslims and Christians.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Name the SEVEN Arab countries that attacked Israel.


How many Arab countries attacked Israel in 1948?

five Arab nations

The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when *five Arab nations* invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948.
------
Who was involved in the 1948 war?







Immediately after Israel's Declaration of Independence on 14 May 1948, the armies of six Arab countries - *Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Iraq* - together with the local Arab militia forces attacked the nascent Jewish state from all directions.
-------
The first war (1948–49) began when Israel declared itself an independent state following the United Nations’ partition of Palestine. Protesting this move, five Arab countries—Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria—attacked Israel.










						Causes and consequences of the Arab-Israeli wars
					

Arab-Israeli wars,  Series of military conflicts fought between various Arab countries and Israel (1948–49, 1956, 1967, 1969–70, 1973, and 1982).



					www.britannica.com
				







Oh, yes, let us not forget that it was Israel the one who "attacked first" when it declared Independence.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Idiot. The Bedouin stole from everyone..Jews, Muslims and Christians.


If one cannot blame the Jews, one blames the Bedouins......

But never the Arabs.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> If one cannot blame the Jews, one blames the Bedouins......
> 
> But never the Arabs.



Back in the 1920s and 30s everyone knew it was the Bedouin.. Meanwhile the zionists killed 500 British peacekeepers before statehood.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Back in the 1920s and 30s everyone knew it was the Bedouin.. Meanwhile the zionists killed 500 British peacekeepers before statehood.


(And in 1852?  What did they know then?  SHow us the writings, news etc of the day which would tell us that.)

(And as you are at it, show us the writings, news, etc in the 1920s and 1930s which show that it was the Bedouins and not the Arabs who were attacking, raping, mutilating, etc the Jews in 1921, 1929, 1936 to 1939.   

Are you telling us that it was also the Bedouins who are responsible for the 1948 war?  )



An 1852 account describes how Jews had to hide any indication of owning property or goods, because the Arabs would steal them. Jews in Palestine suffered pogroms. - not just in 1929. The word "Jew" was (and remains) an epithet in the Arab world.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Back in the 1920s and 30s everyone knew it was the Bedouin.. Meanwhile the zionists killed 500 British peacekeepers before statehood.


And while you are at it, do name the Bedouin tribes responsible for all of those attacks on Jews, at any time in the 19th or 20th century.


The British meant to steal not only TransJordan, as they did for the Hashemites, but steal the rest of the Mandate for themselves.

They were not, to this day, the innocent participants you keep trying to make them be.

Peacekeepers keep peace, they do not allow Arabs to attack and kill Jews at any time and do NOTHING.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Nizar Hussain Rashid, writing in Rai Al Youm, attacks the exhibition with thinly-veiled antisemitism, saying that the exhibit "emanates from the Israeli bosom" and showcases, somehow, Israeli theft of Arab culture.

He makes the ridiculous argument that the name of the exhibition, Jews of the Orient or Jews of the East, is inaccurate because north African Jews are not from the East at all. 

Somehow, since he considers Israelis to be Western colonialists, that makes this exhibition on Jews in Arab lands to be illegitimate. 

Rashid repeats the lie that there is no history of Jews in Israel. "They toiled in digging and digging in the land of Palestine and did not find either a stone or a trace [of their history.] Where will the museum’s stones and sculptures come from then? Who are the forgers among the Professors of Archeology at the Hebrew University, for example? "

Rashid then goes on to deny that any Jews were forced out of Arab countries, claiming that they all left voluntarily from Egypt and Iraq and elsewhere, and then they found real discrimination when they reached Israel and regretted leaving their homes. 

Which brings up the question - if that is true, when why didn't they go back?

The writer ends off by saying "In any case, the Arab World Institute is now standing naked of every virtue and on open ground, after it was infiltrated in this scandalous way." 

Denying Jewish history. Saying that Jews are liars. Making clear that Jews never belonged in Arab countries as full citizens to begin with. Yeah, that's not "anti-Zionism."

(full article online)









						Anger at Arab World Institute is yet another example of Arab antisemitism
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Here's one example. Green says, "the IDF posts affirmations-style memes calling Arabs terrorists." The link goes to this graphic:





Does this graphic call Arabs terrorists, or does it point out - accurately - that shooting rockets at civilians is terrorism?

From this one example, we learn that Alex V. Green is: 1) a liar, 2) guilty of the crime they accuse the IDF of: saying that all Palestinians are terrorists.

Green then goes on to say this oh-so-woke piece of antisemitism:



> But the notion that Jews are “indigenous” to Palestine, specifically to the Biblical kingdom of Judea, is new to me....But here were all these kids, pointing to their curly hair or dark eyes as evidence of Semitic nativity (you know, like fascists do!), citing genetic studies and calling themselves “decolonized.”



Accusing Jews who are proud of their ancestry originating in the Land of Israel of fascism is the key pull-quote in the article:




Gee, what fun to accuse people of fascism based on their pride in their appearance, heritage and DNA!

Anyone else on the planet who is proud of their genetic ties to their homelands are wonderful examples of self-respect; when Jews do it they are aping the Aryans who wanted to murder them. What a fun juxtaposition!

Now that we see that Alex V Green is a lying piece of antisemitic (but Jewish!) trash, what more do you need to know?


(full article online )









						Gawker says Jews who are proud of their heritage are just like fascists!
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

> Rigby5 said:
> 
> Nothing can be wrong because these are well established historical facts.
> The Romans forced all the Jews to leave, so we know there were no significant number of Jews in Palestine until the Romans were defeated.
> And while some Jews then did return after the Romans were defeated, the Jews in Palestine were once again wiped out by the Crusades about 500 years later.



1) The Romans did not force all the Jews to leave, or take all the Jews with them to Rome. Many fled and hid in the mountains, and other places where they could not be found, continuing with their lives and religion. Which is why when the Muslims arrived in the 7th century CE, they found the indigenous people - the Jews - and even re opened Jerusalem for them.

2) The Jews AND Muslims in Jerusalem were massacred by the Crusaders. It does not make all the Jews in their homeland being massacred.

As I said, you are wrong.


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## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


> Here's one example. Green says, "the IDF posts affirmations-style memes calling Arabs terrorists." The link goes to this graphic:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does this graphic call Arabs terrorists, or does it point out - accurately - that shooting rockets at civilians is terrorism?
> 
> From this one example, we learn that Alex V. Green is: 1) a liar, 2) guilty of the crime they accuse the IDF of: saying that all Palestinians are terrorists.
> 
> Green then goes on to say this oh-so-woke piece of antisemitism:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Accusing Jews who are proud of their ancestry originating in the Land of Israel of fascism is the key pull-quote in the article:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, what fun to accuse people of fascism based on their pride in their appearance, heritage and DNA!
> 
> Anyone else on the planet who is proud of their genetic ties to their homelands are wonderful examples of self-respect; when Jews do it they are aping the Aryans who wanted to murder them. What a fun juxtaposition!
> 
> Now that we see that Alex V Green is a lying piece of antisemitic (but Jewish!) trash, what more do you need to know?
> 
> 
> (full article online )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gawker says Jews who are proud of their heritage are just like fascists!
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com



_But the notion that Jews are “indigenous” to Palestine, specifically to the Biblical kingdom of Judea, is new to me...._

Jews.....Judea? Ridiculous!

That would be like saying Arabs are indigenous to Arabia.


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## Sixties Fan

More properly, that sentence should have read, “The Israel Philharmonic Orchestra was founded as the [original name here] in 1936 . . .” and etc.

But maybe I was being too sensitive, too picayune. Tempest in a teapot and all that.

I finished the intro and moved on to the timeline. In 1934, the IPO is referred to only as the “Orchestra.” But in 1936, the reader is informed that:



> Albert Einstein hosted the IPO’s first fundraiser at the Waldorf Astoria New York.


‘Okay,’ I thought. ‘This is now officially ridiculous. It’s supposed to be a history!’

The name change should have been documented, even in a simple timeline. I scanned the rest of the timeline, and it wasn’t there. I scanned the rest of the website, and it wasn’t there. The website had been scrubbed clean of any reference to “Palestine.”

After some research, I figured it out. The newsletter and the website it led me to, were products of the American Friends of the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra, an organization based in America that raises funds on behalf of the IPO. It is this fundraising arm’s website that refuses to say the “P” word.

The regular IPO website, on the other hand, said it in the very first sentence under “Our History”:



> On 26 December 1936, The Palestine Orchestra was born.


It didn’t feel like an oversight that the American Friends of the IPO had left out the original name, which as it turns out, was not “Palestine Philharmonic Orchestra,” but “The Palestine Orchestra.” The omission had to be intentional. It had to be about not wanting to cause offense. The AFIPO was taking great care not to use the word “Palestine” in a Jewish context. It might affect their funding. Because their liberal Jewish donor base, they must have thought, would have apoplexy. “Palestine” must be thought of as something that belongs by rights to Arabs, the past erased.

Think of it this way: if one is a liberal, giving a state to “Palestinians” within Israel’s borders is part of one’s froufrou social justice credo and absolutely essential. All the more so the liberal Jew who feels an overwhelming need, almost a pathology, to bring about an Arab state of Palestine on Jewish land. They are impelled to draw a moral equivalence where none exists: “We have a state. They deserve to have one, too,” they will insist, happy to sacrifice Jewish land to make kosher their image in the eyes of the goyim.


The first concert, December 26, 1936. Conductor Arturo Toscanini shakes the hand of Bronislaw Huberman (photo from the Central Zionist Archives).


Perhaps they think that if they only seem fair-minded about the division of their/our land, the world will know that they are good Jews. It would come to them as a relief, for they feel this heavy burden, a yoke that makes them slaves to public opinion. They are always weighing things: how much do we need to protest against Israel—to give whatever we have—to get that yoke removed—in order to belong to normative, non-Jewish society?

Their agonized deliberation is, however, an empty exercise. The yoke will always be there, sitting heavy on their shoulders, the yoke that ties them to their identity as Jews. It will never be lifted. If they forget the yoke is there, the goyim will remind them.

And as long as the yoke is there, tying them to their history from the center of their being, they will peddle the idea of Palestinian statehood like it is candy for children, or drugs for addicts. They hold it out on a platter, even though the decision is not theirs to make, even though they have no right to give away what God gave the Sons of Israel for all time. Even though they have no right to demean what is the sovereign State of Israel. Some of them, deep down, still know this. But they just want to be liked and accepted (poor things). Even if it means omitting or erasing the truth.

Because everyone knows that pre-state Israel was called “Palestine,” and that all its institutions were referred to as Palestine this, and Palestine that. The British Mandate-issued identity card of my cousin who served in the Palmach listed his nationality as “Palestinian.” Another cousin worked for the Anglo-Palestine Bank. The _Jerusalem Post_was formerly called the “_Palestine_” _Post_.



Today, however, it is forbidden for the liberal Jew to say these things, or as in the case of the AFIPO web content, to read them. Making use of the word “Palestine” in a Jewish, pre-state context, might (God forbid) lend legitimacy to the idea that Palestine never belonged to the Arabs, was never a state, and certainly never an _Arab _state. This is not something that liberal Jews will countenance and if you try to show them the facts, they will show you the hand. They will not be confronted with the truth.

(full article online)









						The Thought of Jewish Palestine: Not for Artsy Jews (Judean Rose)
					

Does it signify when the original name is left off the timeline? It might, if the name is Palestine.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> More properly, that sentence should have read, “The Israel Philharmonic Orchestra was founded as the [original name here] in 1936 . . .” and etc.
> 
> But maybe I was being too sensitive, too picayune. Tempest in a teapot and all that.
> 
> I finished the intro and moved on to the timeline. In 1934, the IPO is referred to only as the “Orchestra.” But in 1936, the reader is informed that:
> 
> 
> ‘Okay,’ I thought. ‘This is now officially ridiculous. It’s supposed to be a history!’
> 
> The name change should have been documented, even in a simple timeline. I scanned the rest of the timeline, and it wasn’t there. I scanned the rest of the website, and it wasn’t there. The website had been scrubbed clean of any reference to “Palestine.”
> 
> After some research, I figured it out. The newsletter and the website it led me to, were products of the American Friends of the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra, an organization based in America that raises funds on behalf of the IPO. It is this fundraising arm’s website that refuses to say the “P” word.
> 
> The regular IPO website, on the other hand, said it in the very first sentence under “Our History”:
> 
> 
> It didn’t feel like an oversight that the American Friends of the IPO had left out the original name, which as it turns out, was not “Palestine Philharmonic Orchestra,” but “The Palestine Orchestra.” The omission had to be intentional. It had to be about not wanting to cause offense. The AFIPO was taking great care not to use the word “Palestine” in a Jewish context. It might affect their funding. Because their liberal Jewish donor base, they must have thought, would have apoplexy. “Palestine” must be thought of as something that belongs by rights to Arabs, the past erased.
> 
> Think of it this way: if one is a liberal, giving a state to “Palestinians” within Israel’s borders is part of one’s froufrou social justice credo and absolutely essential. All the more so the liberal Jew who feels an overwhelming need, almost a pathology, to bring about an Arab state of Palestine on Jewish land. They are impelled to draw a moral equivalence where none exists: “We have a state. They deserve to have one, too,” they will insist, happy to sacrifice Jewish land to make kosher their image in the eyes of the goyim.
> 
> 
> The first concert, December 26, 1936. Conductor Arturo Toscanini shakes the hand of Bronislaw Huberman (photo from the Central Zionist Archives).
> 
> 
> Perhaps they think that if they only seem fair-minded about the division of their/our land, the world will know that they are good Jews. It would come to them as a relief, for they feel this heavy burden, a yoke that makes them slaves to public opinion. They are always weighing things: how much do we need to protest against Israel—to give whatever we have—to get that yoke removed—in order to belong to normative, non-Jewish society?
> 
> Their agonized deliberation is, however, an empty exercise. The yoke will always be there, sitting heavy on their shoulders, the yoke that ties them to their identity as Jews. It will never be lifted. If they forget the yoke is there, the goyim will remind them.
> 
> And as long as the yoke is there, tying them to their history from the center of their being, they will peddle the idea of Palestinian statehood like it is candy for children, or drugs for addicts. They hold it out on a platter, even though the decision is not theirs to make, even though they have no right to give away what God gave the Sons of Israel for all time. Even though they have no right to demean what is the sovereign State of Israel. Some of them, deep down, still know this. But they just want to be liked and accepted (poor things). Even if it means omitting or erasing the truth.
> 
> Because everyone knows that pre-state Israel was called “Palestine,” and that all its institutions were referred to as Palestine this, and Palestine that. The British Mandate-issued identity card of my cousin who served in the Palmach listed his nationality as “Palestinian.” Another cousin worked for the Anglo-Palestine Bank. The _Jerusalem Post_was formerly called the “_Palestine_” _Post_.
> 
> 
> 
> Today, however, it is forbidden for the liberal Jew to say these things, or as in the case of the AFIPO web content, to read them. Making use of the word “Palestine” in a Jewish, pre-state context, might (God forbid) lend legitimacy to the idea that Palestine never belonged to the Arabs, was never a state, and certainly never an _Arab _state. This is not something that liberal Jews will countenance and if you try to show them the facts, they will show you the hand. They will not be confronted with the truth.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Thought of Jewish Palestine: Not for Artsy Jews (Judean Rose)
> 
> 
> Does it signify when the original name is left off the timeline? It might, if the name is Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com



Arabs have lived in Palestine since Ezra.. Palestinians are Muslim, Christian and Jew although Jews were the minority up until 1930.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Arabs have lived in Palestine since Ezra.. Palestinians are Muslim, Christian and Jew although Jews were the minority up until 1930.


And you just could not deal with what the article talks about.  Imagine that.


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

(The ones who declared war on Jews in 1920 want an Inquiry on one of the wars started against Jews after Israel declared Independence.  Curiouser and curiouser )


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## Sixties Fan

In the total war of existence that began to rage in Palestine following the adoption of the United Nations’ partition resolution of November 1947, that was the certain fate of every Jewish settlement that fell to the Arabs: the killing of fighters and civilians alike, mutilation of their bodies, looting of property and destruction of the houses and other buildings. The pattern repeated itself at Beit Ha’arava, Nitzanim, Moshav Atarot, in Jewish neighborhoods of Jerusalem that were attacked and in other mixed cities.


In some cases, this was part of a chain of events and reactions, a bloody cycle typical of the militia and local warfare that characterized the war’s first half year, until the invasion of seven Arab armies into the territory of the Jewish state upon its declaration. Thus, for example, it’s argued that the attack on the Hadassah convoy was perpetrated in reaction to the massacre in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. And after members of the Irgun underground threw bombs from a moving vehicle at Arab workers in the Haifa oil refineries, murdering 11 of them, their friends, aided by local reinforcements, fell upon the Jewish workers – most of them clerks and white-collar staff – killing 39 of them with sticks and stones in a massacre that went on for about an hour.



It was a life-and-death war, brutal and bloody. The Jewish community lost fully 1 percent of its population (6,000 killed out of a population of 600,000), and a 10th of the remainder became refugees in their own country. Their unknown and suppressed story is documented in a 2014 book by the historian Dr. Nurit Cohen-Levinovsky, “Jewish Refugees in Israel’s War of Independence” (in Hebrew). However, with time’s passage, it has become politically incorrect to talk about Jewish fighters who were killed (some of them were young, others were older and had families, there were new immigrants with no military training who hadn’t even managed to learn Hebrew, Holocaust survivors, women and in some cases teenagers), or about civilians who were murdered or settlements that were evacuated and destroyed, and whose residents became refugees.

Haaretz serves as a generous and enthusiastic platform for this willful blindness. It enables the Palestinian citizens of Israel, like my colleagues Odeh Basharat and Hanin Majadli, speaking on behalf of Arab society, to shirk off all responsibility for its fate – from the 1948 war up until the present day. The Palestinians, since then and for all time to come, are solely passive, innocent victims of the Zionist project of evil. There are of course also Jews who see it this way, in academia and in the media. Gideon Levy is a prime example.


Adam Raz, whom I like and esteem, is definitely an industrious and serious historian. There is no reason to doubt the sincerity of his striving to clarify the historical truth – not when it comes to the Israeli nuclear program, and not in regard to the events of the 1948 war, which occupies him in the context of Jewish looting and Jewish acts of massacre. Raz’s latest article on the latter subject (“Classified docs reveal massacres of Palestinians in ‘48 – and what Israeli leaders knew,” Dec. 9) is based largely on newly declassified cabinet discussions that were held in the wake of reports about a number of massacres perpetrated in Arab villages in the final stage of the war. To his credit it should be said that Raz made it clear that most of the material and the facts remain redacted, and the quotes of the ministers that appear in the investigative report are actually based on oral testimonies, which there is no other possibility to prove.

And Gideon Levy, in a column on the very same editorial page, went, as could have been expected, one step further: “What we did then to the Palestinians we continue to do now, only more forcefully… the mechanisms of whitewash and justification will cover up any disclosure from 1948… Please don’t disturb us, we are carrying on – with the same crimes, or similar ones.” In other words, according to the recent recipient of the Sokolow Prize, Israel’s top award for journalism, today, too, Israel Defense Forces soldiers in the territories murder Palestinians in their masses, smashing children’s skulls, committing violent rape and ordering villagers to dig pits before shooting them to death in those same pits.


What we have here is a truly ecstatic celebration of exaggeration, falsehoods and self-undermining and flagellation, and wallowing in feelings of guilt. If we truly want to pursue a serious discussion of the 1948 war, it must be balanced. If the truth, then the whole truth. If one is quoting historian Benny Morris, please also quote his factual and superb book “1948,” and not only the breakthrough “Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem.” And without evading the basic facts: The Palestine Arabs launched murderous acts of hostility immediately after the adoption of the partition plan, which they opposed, by means of 400 armed local militias. Arab armies invaded the Jewish state immediately upon the termination of the British Mandate in order to destroy it and to erase any memory of its existence; those armies included expeditionary forces from distant Iraq and also thousands of volunteers of the Arab Army of Salvation.


If the ideal is the sanctity of historical research and truth, we need to ask where the Palestinian versions of Adam Raz, Akevot Institute and Zochrot are. In any event, my Haaretz colleagues don’t make do with clarifying the facts and often seem to feel that Israelis are required to offer an “apology.” It’s disheartening to be dragged back there again 74 years after the war erupted, but the apology was already formulated by Ephraim Kishon in his genius: “So sorry we won.”

(full article online)









						Jews were massacred in 1948 too, so why dwell only on the Nakba? | Opinion | Opinion
					

***




					www.haaretz.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Evangelical Protestants in the United States have a well-deserved reputation for supporting Israel, but there are signs that younger people in that community are abandoning their support for the Jewish state.

One of the factors contributing to this trend is the publication of books by Evangelical scholars who portray Israel as an affront to all that is good in the world, especially the Christian faith.

These writers combine a dishonest portrayal of Israeli and Jewish history with a hostile theological interpretation of Christian scripture. They depict Christian support for Jewish efforts to achieve survival and sovereignty in the modern world as a betrayal of the Christian faith. In this narrative, the Jewish quest for survival and well-being is more worthy of contempt than efforts to kill and terrorize Jews in their homeland. They promote contempt for Jewish life in Israel.

One egregious example of this phenomenon is the writings of Gary Burge, who currently serves as the Dean of Faculty at Calvin Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan. In the first edition of his notoriously hostile text, “Whose Land? Whose Promise? What Christians Are Not Being Told about Israel and the Palestinians,” Burge maligned Israelis with falsehood after falsehood, declaring, for example, that Israeli Arabs are denied membership in Israel’s labor movement, when in fact they have had access to full membership in Israel’s largest union — Histadrut — since 1959. He reported that all Israeli Arabs were barred from service in Israel’s military and that they were prohibited from joining Israel’s major political parties — another falsehood.

In this same text, Burge made his objection to Jewish sovereignty in the land of Israel explicit when he argued that in light of the Gospel of John, Jews who do not believe in Jesus and try to live in the land of Israel will be “cast out and burned.” Predictably, he made no such argument about the residence of Muslims in the Holy Land — just Jews.

Donald Wagner, an ordained Presbyterian clergyman who used to teach at North Park University in Chicago, an Evangelical stronghold, is another Evangelical promoter of Christian hostility toward Israel.

In his book, “Dying in the Land of Promise: Palestine and Palestinian Christianity from Pentecost to 2000,” Wagner, who previously served as executive director of the anti-Zionist Friends of Sabeel North America, compared Israelis living in the West Bank to a “killer vine” strangling a rose bush in his backyard.

Ugly stuff.

Bruce Fisk, a scholar affiliated with Westmont College, is another member of this cadre of Evangelical anti-Zionists. In a blog post, Fisk once wrote, “For now I can only ask: how can Jews so zealously religious be so hateful and malicious?”

In his text, “A Hitchhiker’s Guide to Jesus: Reading the Gospels on the Ground,” Fisk compares Palestinian informants who provide Israel with the information it needs to prevent terror attacks against civilians, to Judas Iscariot — who betrayed Jesus Christ to the Romans.

“Judas Iscariot is the poster boy for collaborators,” Fisk writes, stating that he feels sorry for collaborators because they can’t go back once they’ve crossed the line. “The high priests of espionage never take back the shekels.” Here, Fisk portrays the Palestinian cause in the same vein as the work of Jesus Christ, and Israeli self-defense against terror attacks with Christ’s murder.

More recently, Fisk wrote a glowing endorsement of “Like Birds in a Cage: Christian Zionism’s Collusion in Israel’s Oppression of the Palestinian People,” by David M. Crump. In this 2021 book, Crump argues explicitly that political Zionism is the modern-day equivalent of Nazism. “American Evangelism,” Crump writes, “is helping to finance political Zionism’s flagrant imitation of Nazi Germany.”

Crump isn’t talking about the Holocaust specifically, but Israeli “land theft” in the West Bank, as if a territorial dispute with the Palestinians that the Israelis have tried to end with numerous peace offers is the equivalent of the Nazi invasion of and mass murders in Czechoslovakia, Poland, the Soviet Union, France, the Balkans, and Belgium during World War II.

(full article online)









						Evangelical Contempt for Jewish Life in Israel Must Be Confronted
					

Youths wave Israeli flags during a parade marking Jerusalem Day amid Israeli-Palestinian tension as they march along the walls surrounding …




					www.algemeiner.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

One of the women profiled is Scheherazade, from Persia. Persia is not listed on the map, which means the children won't be able to identify where she came from!  So from the outset, we can see that the publisher is not being intellectually honest in his defense of a propaganda map that erases Israel.

Moushabeck goes on to misrepresent and demean the feelings of the people complaining. No one is saying that "Palestinians are intrinsically antisemitic." If the map drew Palestine as being in the West Bank, no one would have cared.

But the decision to erase the Jewish state is indeed antisemitic. 

Including women who represent all religions and areas of the Middle East except for members of one religion and one nation is indeed antisemitic. (And saying that women of "all faiths" are celebrated means that to the publisher, Jews don't count.)

There is also another implication in this letter: that women from ancient powerful empires like Egypt, Persia and the Ottoman Empire represent "marginalized and underrepresented voices," that Christians and Muslims who make up billions of people are "marginalized." Is Cleopatra really that marginalized? But the tiny number of Jews from a small ancient kingdom to a small modern democracy are not worth mentioning.

Let's be honest. The reason there are no Jews or Israel in the book is because the author and publisher do not believe that Jews have any rightful place in the region, historically or today. 

Let's be even more honest. If the book treated Jewish women on par with the others, and included Israel in the map and Israeli women like Nobel Prize winner Ada Yonath or Israel Supreme Court President Dorit Beinisch or poet Leah Goldberg, the book would be boycotted by the target audience. 

So cut the crap. This has nothing to do with Palestinians and everything to do with what can only be considered a deliberate mindset that Jews are outsiders, colonialists - in short, the enemy. 

That's why this book is antisemitic. 

The publisher's letter that twists the arguments about the book and belittles the Jews who were insulted by it proves the underlying antisemitism more than the book itself does. 

I don't like censorship but this book promotes the idea that Jews do not belong in the region, and it is therefore utterly unsuitable to be bought by anyone who supports the liberal stance that Interlink Publishing pretends to espouse.

(full article online)











						Children's book erases Jews and Israel from the Middle East (UPDATE)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

El Balad is Egypt's third most popular news site, with about 3 million visits per month.

It has been publishing a series of articles by Najat Abdul Rahman that seem to be concentrating on attacking the Muslim Brotherhood. But it is based on conspiracy theories, and all conspiracy theories lead to Jews.

Last week she mentioned that Egyptian cinema was overrun with immorality, and it seemed to her to be a fulfillment of the ninth Protocol of the Elders of Zion of spreading vice.

This week she delves a little more into the Protocols, and gives a new history of the fraudulent antisemitic document.

According to her, the Protocols were authored by a group that included none other than Theodor Herzl. They were leaked from the top-secret Jewish cabal and made their way to the Pope. Their publication caused Russians to slaughter tens of thousands of Jews, which prompted Herzl to scream about how the documents were stolen from the Jewish "holy of holies" and therefore exposed Jews to pogroms and calamities.

Rahman goes on to describe several of the Protocols, pointing out how the Muslim Brotherhood was following them in Egypt in concert with their Israeli mentors.

There will be more about the Protocols next week. 

This is a mainstream and popular Egyptian newspaper that is spreading pure hate for Jews, today. And there is never a word  of objection from the self-appointed experts on antisemitism from the Left about this daily incitement in Arab media.









						Egypt's third most popular news site: "Herzl wrote the Protocols, and screamed when they were leaked"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

Asked during a Dec. 13 webinar whether “anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism,” Noura Erakat – no stranger to antisemitism herself—proclaimed the proper reaction to Nazism is not Zionism, but “a class-based response that sought to create class-based solidarity in order to overcome nationalism.”

Her unsolicited advice to the Jewish people was part of a veritable fusillade of fallacies from this Rutgers University assistant professor of Africana studies to her hosts at the London School of Economics (LSE).

LSE sociology professor Ayça Çubukçu moderated Erakat’s discussion of “Dismantling the Apartheid of Our Time: The Palestinian Liberation Movement as an Anti-Racist Struggle.” LSE provided a disturbing context for the presentation, as just last month protesters rushed Israel’s ambassador to the
United Kingdom, Tzipi Hotovely, after her lecture there. After police launched an investigation into whether any of the protesters committed threatening acts, Çubukçu tweeted her “solidarity” with the protesters.

On the relation between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, Erakat lauded Jewish anti-Zionists who spuriously argue that Jews “can be a Jewish community” without an Israeli Jewish state. As an example of Jews opposed to the reestablishment of Jewish national life, she cited the Jewish Bund, founded in 1897 in the Russian Empire, whose Jewry later formed the bulk of Nazi genocide’s more than 6 million victims.

But happily, in Erakat’s eyes, these Jews at least remained among their Slavic neighbors, deeply steeped in murderous anti-Semitism and did not support Zionism, which “in and of itself is racist” and a “supremacist ideology.” Among her slanders against Jewish national liberation, she claimed that Israel engages in “forced population transfer,” such as by denying a “right of return” to millions of descendants of perhaps 600,000 Arab refugees from Israel’s 1948 War of Independence. Yet Israel’s current Arab citizens, about 2 million strong, outnumber the 1.2 million Arabs who lived in the entire Palestine Mandate in 1947 before its division into Israel and various Arab territories.

(full article online)









						Rutgers professor to Jews: Better dead than Zionist
					

The decades-long trumpeting of bigotry against Judaism and Israel by professors of Middle East studies undermines the West’s security by maleducating its youth, misleading its publics and misadvising its leaders.




					www.jns.org


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## Sixties Fan

In the middle of an article about Israeli cultural appropriation, where he falsely claims that Israelis told Miss Universe contestants that Bedouin culture was Jewish, and goes through the usual litany of how Israelis steal Arab dance, music and cuisine.

Then he says:


> Even the current Hebrew language is a modern invention, as it was developed by a Russian Jew who came from Russia to Palestine in 1890 and used Arabic grammar and the Canaanite Aramaic language, and added to it from the Yiddish language and European languages and called it a Hebrew language and written in Aramaic letters similar to ancient Arabic, i.e. separate letters.


Yes, he is claiming that the primary influence on modern Hebrew is not...Hebrew, and that the language was stolen from Arabs.

Of course, even before Eliezer ben-Yehudah worked to standardize modern Hebrew, Hebrew was spoken and used for secular purposes. A simple Hebrew was spoken in the Old Yishuv throughout the 1800s, and there were Hebrew journals and newspapers that pre-dated Ben Yehuda. The earliest examples of periodicals written in Hebrew online at Israel's National Library are Ha-Me'Asef (Poland) from 1783  and Ha-Tzefirah (Ukraine) from 1823. Ben Yehudah based modern Hebrew grammar primarily on Mishnaic Hebrew, not Arabic, although he took some words from modern Arabic and Hebraicized them.

But to some people, Jews are thieves and therefore everything Jewish or Zionist is stolen. Other languages evolve with outside influences, but Jews steal their language. Other cuisines borrow from other cultures, Israeli cuisine steals. 

(full article online)









						Here's a new one: "Modern Hebrew is cultural appropriation from Arabic"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> El Balad is Egypt's third most popular news site, with about 3 million visits per month.
> 
> It has been publishing a series of articles by Najat Abdul Rahman that seem to be concentrating on attacking the Muslim Brotherhood. But it is based on conspiracy theories, and all conspiracy theories lead to Jews.
> 
> Last week she mentioned that Egyptian cinema was overrun with immorality, and it seemed to her to be a fulfillment of the ninth Protocol of the Elders of Zion of spreading vice.
> 
> This week she delves a little more into the Protocols, and gives a new history of the fraudulent antisemitic document.
> 
> According to her, the Protocols were authored by a group that included none other than Theodor Herzl. They were leaked from the top-secret Jewish cabal and made their way to the Pope. Their publication caused Russians to slaughter tens of thousands of Jews, which prompted Herzl to scream about how the documents were stolen from the Jewish "holy of holies" and therefore exposed Jews to pogroms and calamities.
> 
> Rahman goes on to describe several of the Protocols, pointing out how the Muslim Brotherhood was following them in Egypt in concert with their Israeli mentors.
> 
> There will be more about the Protocols next week.
> 
> This is a mainstream and popular Egyptian newspaper that is spreading pure hate for Jews, today. And there is never a word  of objection from the self-appointed experts on antisemitism from the Left about this daily incitement in Arab media.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt's third most popular news site: "Herzl wrote the Protocols, and screamed when they were leaked"
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com



Don't you ever wonder who exactly used the Protocols against the Jews?

The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion are a false documentation that has no credibility and its purpose is to spread antisemitism throughout the world. A French lawyer named Maurice Joly published an anonymous book in 1864 in which he attacked Napoleon III. This publication is known as "Dialogues in Hell."


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## Sixties Fan

The Protocols in the Arab world

The popularity of the Protocols in the Arab world is not at all limited to Islamist circles. The belief in a Jewish world conspiracy characterizes the general historical and political consciousness in much of the Middle East. However, the main reason for this is not the reference to the Protocols in Section 32 of the Hamas Charter or other extremist propaganda.

The Jews’ responsibility for every evil on earth is, rather, a very common, academic, and centrist world view in Arab nations.

The Protocols are translated, commented upon, published, and promoted by famous Arab intellectuals, politicians, and professors. They introduce the Protocols as an authentic document and as absolutely essential in explaining world affairs.

The Lebanese politician Ajjaj Nuwayhid (1897–1982) published an Arabic translation of the Protocols that is still among the most famous editions. In the foreword to the fourth edition, he quoted Said Aql, one of Lebanon’s most important modern poets: “Before the publishing [of the Protocols] Israel could be seen as a mere military danger, but now it has become a cultural and metaphysical danger.”

Whether the Protocols were authentic or not was a question of little or no significance: “In this period of history in the Middle East no one who has not read your [Nuwayhid’s] book should be entrusted with politics.”

Nuwayhid’s translation has been reprinted by many publishing houses in different Arab countries. Most editions of the Protocols include the following blurb:


Oh, you may not stop halfway, my dear Arab, as it is your duty to know most certainly what and who is “International Jewry,” working toward the devastation of Christianity, Islam, and all of civilization.
If you stop halfway you are harming yourself, your Umma, your history and your present and future descendants.
Do not be deceived by what you have known until now about 'Zionism' and 'Israel'. It is important for you to know the 'international Jewry' that is behind the scenes and that has performed its criminal deeds for twenty centuries.
'Zionism' and 'Israel' are nothing but its facade. Read these Protocols!
This invitation is often combined with a warning to the reader to exercise caution in dealing with the Protocols; purportedly, no translator or publisher of this tome has ever died of natural causes: To the reader: Take care of this copy, as the Jews fought this book wherever it appeared and in every language.

They appear, no matter what the cost, in order to collect and burn the copies, because they do not want the world to know about the hellish plots they have made against it. In this book they [the plots] are revealed.

One often reads that the real object of the Arabs’ struggle did not appear for the first time in 1948 (i.e. with the creation of the State of Israel) or in the late nineteenth century with the emergence of Zionism, but rather that “International Jewry” has been a threat to mankind throughout the ages.

The first Arabic translation of the Protocols to gain mainstream fame was the one by Muhammad Khalifa at-Tunisi, first published in 1951. It is still reprinted today and is also available on the internet.

At-Tunisi explained why he translated the Protocols: I do not warn against the [Jewish] danger because they are fighting against my people; and not because they carved Israel out of Palestine and in so doing, became a neighboring enemy; and not because they are situated right in the midst of our own countries. But I warn against their danger to mankind, too. Even if all of that belongs to my motives for paying attention to this danger, I still warn against their danger to mankind. Even if they were expelled from our countries to any spot of land—wherever they were, they were enemies to mankind.

(full article online)









						WJC ANALYSIS - Carmen Matussek: The Protocols of the Elders of Zion in the Arab world - World Jewish Congress
					

The popularity of the anti-Semitic pamphlet is not limited to Islamist circles. The belief in a Jewish world conspiracy characterizes the general consciousness in much of the Middle East.




					www.worldjewishcongress.org


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

ven more disturbing, as noted by the president of the Board of Deputies Marie van der Zyl in a protest letter to Welby, was the archbishops’ reference to the original Christmas story taking place against “the backdrop of a genocide of infants” – an allusion to King Herod’s massacre of children in the Gospel of Matthew.

“I found this reference troubling,” she wrote, “because of the potential linkage which could be made between Christianity, Jews and the killing of children in any current context.”

It’s more than just troubling. Not only does it slyly reinforce the blood libel perpetrated against the Israel’s Defense Forces — which goes to lengths unmatched by any other military to protect civilian life — that they willfully slaughter Palestinian children.

It also continues to tap into the calumny of replacement theology, which in recent years has been revived within the church.

This ancient doctrine, which was responsible for the Christian pogroms against the Jews of medieval Europe, held that the Christians had replaced the Jews in the eyes of God and had inherited all divine promises made to them while the Jews themselves had become the party of the devil.

Today, this doctrine has been appropriated by Palestinian Arab Christians — and endorsed below the radar by many liberal Western churches — to claim that the Palestinians have now inherited the divine promise of the land of Israel.

This has created such absurdities and obscenities as representing Jesus, the Jew from Judea, as a Palestinian; writing the Jews out of their own national story in Israel; and rehashing the ancient libel that the Jews killed Jesus to underpin the modern libel that the Israelis are slaughtering the Palestinians.

The churches’ accusation against Israel is even more egregious since Christianity really is under existential threat throughout other parts of the Middle East and the developing world.

In its ancient cradle of Iraq, Christianity has been virtually wiped out by Islamist attacks. At the beginning of this year, Open Doors listed the ten countries where Christians were most persecuted as North Korea, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya, Pakistan, Eritrea, Yemen, Iran, Nigeria and India. Of more than 50 countries on its full list, all were in the developing world. None of them was Israel.

Yet Welby and the other clerics ignored all this (although Welby subsequently sought to deflect the growing outrage over his article by writing a postscript on the Spectator website in which he devoted three paragraphs to Christian persecution around the world). Instead, the churches’ campaign chose to scapegoat the Jews for crimes against Christianity perpetrated by others — the fundamental myth fueling Christian antisemitism from the time of the early church fathers.

Many decent Christians are horrified by the venom of the liberal churches towards Israel and the resurgence of theological Christian Jew-hatred, which to them goes totally against the uplifting lessons they learn from their faith.



(full article online)









						A Christmas crusade: scapegoating the Jews
					

Anyone connected to reality would be perplexed by church leaders’ campaign to blame Israeli Jews for driving Christians out of Israel, as the country’s Christian population actually increased last year.




					www.jns.org


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## Sixties Fan

Joseph's Tomb in the early 1900s


Palestinian media report:


> On Friday evening, security forces prevented angry youths from burning Joseph's Tomb in the city of Nablus in the northern occupied West Bank.
> 
> Local sources reported that an angry march started at night in front of Balata refugee camp, east of Nablus, with the participation of dozens of young men, and headed towards Joseph's tomb in the Balata Al-Balad area, in an attempt to burn it in response to the escalating attacks by settlers.
> 
> The sources stated that reinforcements from the security services arrived at the site of Joseph's tomb and spread around it, preventing the march from approaching it, and confrontations erupted between them and the march participants.


According to Khaled Abu Toameh, there were two such attempts in recent days.

Trying to burn down a Jewish holy site? Nah, nothing antisemitic about that!
https://www.aljazeera.net/news/politics/2021/12/10/الفلسطينيون-يكشفون-الاحتلال-أحدث
Al Jazeera quotes Palestinian Authority official Ghassan Dahglas, who is literally paid to lie about Jews in the territories and gets believed by major media. He claims that Jews only created Joseph's Tomb in recent years!




> Ghassan Dahglas, who is in charge of the settlement file in the northern West Bank, confirms that the place is "a shrine, not a tomb, and not for the Prophet of God Joseph, peace be upon him, as the occupation claims."
> 
> Dahglas denies that there is a tomb in the first place, and says that the Israelis came in 2011 with large stones carried by trucks, and put them down in the place, and later claimed that it was the grave, and he tells Al Jazeera Net, "This is Palestinian-documented," and adds that "all of this is taught by their children to preserve it for future generations and adopt the forged story."


Calling Jews liars and thieves for trying to claim a Muslim site as their own? Nah, nothing antisemitic about that! 

While there is certainly doubt whether this is the actual location of Joseph's Tomb, it has been identified as such since the 5th century at least.  Here is an 1864 account of the site by John Mills:

(full article online)









						Palestinians try to burn down Joseph's Tomb - twice. But don't call them antisemitic!
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

PA seeks to undo the result of Balfour Declaration and have Israel “disappear” | PMW Analysis
					

Girl from Fatah calls Balfour “a traitor of humanity,” vows to “fight… with the blood of Martyrs” to erase Israel




					palwatch.org


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## Sixties Fan

“I was educated on the false perception of Israel as a Jewish apartheid state, one that does not grant Arabs their rights,” Alshareef told Israel Hayom.

“The dramatic turning point for me happened in 2010, when I was exposed to the completely different truth. The truth will set you free!”

Alshareef said he lived with a Jewish family in France while studying abroad, and the experience left him forever changed. During his time with the family, he learned about the shared Biblical and religious heritage of Jews and Muslims.
He noted that for the first time, he “was exposed to the Jews’ historic ties to the region, which is a settled fact and not the lie that they are colonizers. I changed my opinion about the Jews.”

(full article online)










						Arab influencers advocate for Israel on social media | World Israel News
					

Emirati and Arab Israeli leverage their large social media followings to advocate for Jewish State and change the Arab world's perception of Israel.




					worldisraelnews.com


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## Sixties Fan

What really happened to the million Jews who lived in Arab lands? Unfortunately, so many people spread lies about what happened to those Jews – chiefly as a way of propping up a false Palestinian narrative – that most people have no idea of the truth or the scale of the disaster. They see the lies spreading online, but simply do not have the material they need to counter the disinformation campaign.










						What really happened to the million Jews in Arab lands?
					

What really happened to the million Jews living in Arab lands - and why anti-Israel activists have to lie about it.




					david-collier.com


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## Sixties Fan

Palestinians are still upset over Miss Universe contestants wearing Bedouin robes. From Al Monitor:




> Palestinian activists believe that Miss Universe organizers granting contestants permission to wear the Palestinian dress is theft of Palestinian culture and heritage. Palestinians in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank held popular events, during which women wore the Palestinian dress and prepared traditional foods, in protest of Miss Universe contestants wearing the Palestinian traditional dress, which is considered part of the cultural identity of the Palestinian people.
> 
> On Dec. 16, the art of traditional embroidery and the practices, skills and customs associated with it were inscribed among 43 new elements on UNESCO's Intangible Cultural Heritage List.
> 
> “Women’s village clothing usually consists of a long dress, trousers, a jacket, a headdress, and a veil,” UNESCO stated. “Each of these garments is embroidered with a variety of symbols including birds, trees, and flowers. The choice of colors and designs indicates the woman’s regional identity and marital and economic status. Embroidery is a social and intergenerational practice, as women gather in each other’s homes to practice embroidery and sewing, often with their daughters. Many women embroider as a hobby, and some produce and sell embroidered pieces to supplement their family’s income.”
> 
> Palestinian Minister of Culture Atef Abu Saif said the inscription of the Palestinian embroidery on UNESCO's Intangible Cultural Heritage List is a victory for the Palestinian narrative based on the right of the Palestinian people to their land from which they were forcibly displaced during the 1948 Nakba.
> 
> Abu Saif pointed out that the Palestinian Ministry of Culture worked for over two years toward this goal by preparing the required documents that prove embroidery is a pure Palestinian heritage practiced by Palestinians for thousands of years.


Thousands of years?
One of the documents linked to in this article shows that Palestinians admits that there was no difference between the women's clothing in Jordan and Palestine - which contradicts the "unique" nature of the dress that they claim - and also admits that at least part of the women's robe (thobe) style comes from copying the dress of - a Jew!



> The traditional costume designer, Khawla Asaad, confirmed that the dress indicates the Jordanian-Palestinian interdependence, because the old dress in Jordan and Palestine was one, with evidence that the two dresses were the Salti (Jordan) and the Tamari (Palestine), and the dress of the Bedouin women in Palestine and Jordan was similar in the same design, and this dress was characterized by length and high Play (chest) so that no one can tell that the woman is pregnant, and so that the woman can put valuables inside the play, concluding by saying that this dress is taken from the dress of the Virgin Mary, peace be upon her, who became pregnant and gave birth without anyone knowing it because her dress was loose.



Mary was, of course, Jewish.

Palestinians claim that their tradition of intricate embroidery is what is unique to their culture, and Israel is "stealing" it, somehow, by calling it "Bedouin" and noting that many Bedouin in the Negev - full Israeli citizens - wear such clothing. 

But what if this tradition of intricate embroidery actually comes from Jews?

Jews throughout the Middle East and central Europe have been wearing intricately embroidered clothing for at least 200 years, as an exhibit at the Jewish Museum showed in 2018. 





But what about earlier than that?

In the mid-1800s, Thomas de Quincey wrote an essay, "The Toilette of the Hebrew Lady," based on research by another scholar named Hartmann. He describes the tradition of Jewish embroidery going back to Biblical times.

(full article online)









						Perhaps "Palestinian dress" is stolen from Jews!
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

The UN’s attack on Jewish Jerusalem is simply part of its wider anti-Israel strategy seeking to undermine and delegitimize the only Jewish state in the world. UN bias is well known, with its demographic makeup largely ensuring an automatic majority for every anti-Israel resolution proposed. The organization’s position not only flies in the face of 3,000 years of the city’s history, but also blatantly contradicts its own position on the rights of indigenous peoples.

It was in the Land of Israel that the Jewish people developed its unique culture and religious practices. It clearly fulfills the criteria of indigenous peoples, according to the UN’s own definitions: self-identification; historical continuity with precolonial and/or pre-settler societies; strong links to territories and surrounding natural resources; distinct social, economic or political systems; distinct language, culture and beliefs; resolve to maintain and reproduce ancestral environments and systems as distinct communities.

It is more than a mere discourtesy to avoid using the Jewish names and terms – the UN is directly contradicting its own 2007 Declaration on the Rights of Indigneous Peoples by denying Jewish indigenous rights “pertaining to their lands, territories and resources, including those which were traditionally owned or otherwise occupied or used.” By its antihistorical and unjust declarations, the UN merely discredits itself and undermines its status as a human rights body.

ews are undeniably the indigenous people of Jerusalem, a claim supported by historical, archaeological and genetic evidence. Jerusalem, otherwise known as Zion, is the Holy City of the Jewish people. Israel’s declaration of Jerusalem as its complete and united capital city should be supported by all who care about indigenous peoples and their rights.

If the UN were to apply to some good purpose all the energy expended against Jews and their ancient and indissoluble connection to Jerusalem, so much good could be achieved.



(full article online)









						UN’s war on Jewish Jerusalem: A denial of indigenous rights - opinion
					

The UN’s attack on Jewish Jerusalem is simply part of its wider anti-Israel strategy seeking to undermine and delegitimize the only Jewish state in the world.




					www.jpost.com


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## Sixties Fan

AFP also refers to “the territory captured from Syria” while skipping over the reason for Israel’s capture from the Golan Heights (“Israel approves plan to double settlers in occupied Golan“).




A Syrian gun used to attack Israeli civilians in the Jordan Valley prior to 1967, from the high point of Mevo Hama, Golan Heights, where Israel’s Cabinet met this week to announce a development plan for the strategic area (Photo by Hadar Sela)
Here’s the missing essential history that the wire agencies could have included in one simple sentence: From 1948 until 1967, Syria used the Golan Heights as a military stronghold from which to attack Jewish communities in the Hula Valley.

About Mitzpe Gadot, in the Israeli Golan Heights, CAMERA UK’s Hadar Sela wrote:



> Until 1967, this was the site of a large Syrian military post named Murtafa which dominated the Hula valley below. In particular, it was the source of repeated attacks on Kibbutz Gadot – established in 1949 on the site of the former moshava Mishmar HaYarden (established in 1890) which had been destroyed by the Syrians on June 10th, 1948 during the War of Independence. On April 7th, 1967 more than 300 Syrian shells fell on Gadot in 40 minutes. Two months later, as its residents were still busy rebuilding their homes, the kibbutz was once again destroyed by Syrian shelling.
> During the years between 1949 and 1967, a generation of children who came to be known as the ‘shelters generation’ grew up in Gadot and many other nearby villages and kibbutzim and it was this difficult reality which led a delegation from the area to press the Prime Minister of the time, Levi Eshkol, to capture the Golan Heights during the last day and a half of the Six Day War.
> As the sounds of war fell silent, the famous song about ‘a girl from Gadot’ was penned and when the Israeli forces reached the Syrian base of Murtafa, the commander Colonel Emanuel (Mano) Shaked sent a message to the people of Gadot saying “From here you look seven times greater” – a tribute to their ability to withstand 19 years of Syrian attacks.


A look back at _The New York Times_ archive from that period gives a taste of the constant Syrian barrages targeting Israel’s northern residents and farmers for 19 years, launched from the strategic heights.

On Nov. 7, 1958, _The Times’_ front-page article (“U.N. Halts Clash on Israel ‘s Line”) reported:

(full article online)









						Coverage Citing Israeli Capture of Golan Heights Omits Syrian Attacks
					

International media outlets citing Israel's 1967 capture of the Golan Heights from Syria fail to inform why. The truncated history lessons ignore Syria's 19-year




					www.camera.org


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## RoccoR

RE: The Right To Destroy Jewish History
SUBTOPIC: Credibility and Decisive Jewish Reaction
※→   Sixties Fan, et al,

*(GENERAL OPENING)*

What would happen if Israel decided to:  Withdraw its membership from the United Nations and its ascension to all Covenants facilitated by the United Nations as part of the Membership?  Ramifications (if any)?



Sixties Fan said:


> The UN’s attack on Jewish Jerusalem is simply part of its wider anti-Israel strategy seeking to undermine and delegitimize the only Jewish state in the world. UN bias is well known, with its demographic makeup largely ensuring an automatic majority for every anti-Israel resolution proposed. The organization’s position not only flies in the face of 3,000 years of the city’s history, but also blatantly contradicts its own position on the rights of indigenous peoples.


*(COMMENT)*

On occasion, there comes a point in time when membership in an organization serves no useful purpose and the continuation of that membership is no longer in the best interest of that member_* (as a nation or its citizenry)*_.  I think Israel is coming to the point where.

The UN has passed Resolution after Resolution (*14 in 2021 and 114 since 2015*) chastising Israel which demonstrates the pulse of the UN Membership is decidedly opposed politically to nearly any and all things Israel.  Israel has not derived any significant benefit from the membership and the UN has placed an inordinate effort in the production of condemnations against Israel in the last decade.  

I am having a hard time understanding why Israel even bothers.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


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## Sixties Fan

RoccoR said:


> RE: The Right To Destroy Jewish History
> SUBTOPIC: Credibility and Decisive Jewish Reaction
> ※→   Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> *(GENERAL OPENING)*
> 
> What would happen if Israel decided to:  Withdraw its membership from the United Nations and its ascension to all Covenants facilitated by the United Nations as part of the Membership?  Ramifications (if any)?
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> On occasion, there comes a point in time when membership in an organization serves no useful purpose and the continuation of that membership is no longer in the best interest of that member_* (as a nation or its citizenry)*_.  I think Israel is coming to the point where.
> 
> The UN has passed Resolution after Resolution (*14 in 2021 and 114 since 2015*) chastising Israel which demonstrates the pulse of the UN Membership is decidedly opposed politically to nearly any and all things Israel.  Israel has not derived any significant benefit from the membership and the UN has placed an inordinate effort in the production of condemnations against Israel in the last decade.
> 
> I am having a hard time understanding why Israel even bothers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


Why doesn't Israel leave the UN? - Quora​https://www.quora.com › Why-doesnt-Israel-leave-the-UN


Israel should leave the UN but stays so that it can rebuff critisism and reveal the nasty side of the UN which is antisemitic.


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## rylah

RoccoR said:


> RE: The Right To Destroy Jewish History
> SUBTOPIC: Credibility and Decisive Jewish Reaction
> ※→   Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> *(GENERAL OPENING)*
> 
> What would happen if Israel decided to:  Withdraw its membership from the United Nations and its ascension to all Covenants facilitated by the United Nations as part of the Membership?  Ramifications (if any)?
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> On occasion, there comes a point in time when membership in an organization serves no useful purpose and the continuation of that membership is no longer in the best interest of that member_* (as a nation or its citizenry)*_.  I think Israel is coming to the point where.
> 
> The UN has passed Resolution after Resolution (*14 in 2021 and 114 since 2015*) chastising Israel which demonstrates the pulse of the UN Membership is decidedly opposed politically to nearly any and all things Israel.  Israel has not derived any significant benefit from the membership and the UN has placed an inordinate effort in the production of condemnations against Israel in the last decade.
> 
> I am having a hard time understanding why Israel even bothers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R



Hmm...interesting. Thank You, it's so refreshing.

There're various combinations of long and short-term results.
Could go wrong short-term, leaving a vacuum, encouraging further hostility.
Otherwise result in a quick chain reaction, in favor of Israel and the UN reform overall.

Anyway, long-term, I think this couldn't go without having a lasting effect. 
Which, is the more interesting question, and focus of this relationship.

That, in my opinion, is sometimes, better when having a clear alternative, 
to answer when the UN members eventually get to listening,
after exhausting the playground for attacks.

Here also 2 options - wait till all the answers are clear in the public domain and the situation is ripe,
or go with the truth and the talent of the nation, for the calling of the few, and their potential
at the crossroads of history. 

Think about Mosher Rabbenu, Herzl and Ben-Gurion,
and all the opposition they had from the street,
even the establishment of the state was 
culminated into  Ben-Gurion's choice,
by entirely individual decision,
influencing generations.

Was that a calculated whim? Or individuality?
There's an alternative, the UN demands it from Israel, 
the address is correct, and a matter of individual choice.
The legal concept of universal human rights was based on the Noahide Laws,
maybe the alternative is already here, expressing in the individual choices least expected.


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## Sixties Fan

*Deputy Director-General of the PA Ministry of Culture: *​
*Israel “has no folklore or story, and a nation without folklore is a nation without culture, a nation without a future”*​
*Israel “is attempting to steal [our] story, this heritage, and to attribute them to itself”*​
*Israel “has folklore in the lands it came from… Those who came from Europe have folklore in Europe, in France, in Britain, or in America… it knows well that it necessarily will return to where it came from because it has no existence in this land at all”*​
*Israel “has no garb, no dress, no kind of food, no debka, and no art. It is all stolen”*​

(full article online)









						PA: The Jews stole everything… “[They have] no dress no food no art. It is all stolen” | PMW Analysis
					

Israel “has no folklore or story, and a nation without folklore is a nation without culture, a nation without a future”




					palwatch.org


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## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


> *Deputy Director-General of the PA Ministry of Culture: *​
> *Israel “has no folklore or story, and a nation without folklore is a nation without culture, a nation without a future”*​
> *Israel “is attempting to steal [our] story, this heritage, and to attribute them to itself”*​
> *Israel “has folklore in the lands it came from… Those who came from Europe have folklore in Europe, in France, in Britain, or in America… it knows well that it necessarily will return to where it came from because it has no existence in this land at all”*​
> *Israel “has no garb, no dress, no kind of food, no debka, and no art. It is all stolen”*​
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA: The Jews stole everything… “[They have] no dress no food no art. It is all stolen” | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Israel “has no folklore or story, and a nation without folklore is a nation without culture, a nation without a future”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org



The Jews stole everything… “[They have] no dress no food no art.​
They have a country......which is more than the Palestinians have.


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## Sixties Fan

Dore Gold – The UN’s Reinvention of Jerusalem’s Past | Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs
					

The Jewish connection to Jerusalem is engraved in the Bible and Quran.




					jcpa.org


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## Sixties Fan




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## RoccoR

RE: The Right To Destroy Jewish History
SUBTOPIC: Credibility
※→ Sixties Fan, et al,

Yes, but there is absolutely nothing that can cure "stupid."



Sixties Fan said:


> _Alla →_ Elliott Hamilton:  Dumb arse with brain worms justifying genocidal anti-Jewish terror is classic commie British idiocy.


*(COMMENT)*

When I followed the link backward to the source document, I find what these advocates for conflict are citing is not "International Law."

A/RES/33/24.  29 November 1978 is NOT Law.

The Law especially as applied to the disputed territories, says something completely different.  Remember Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.  Anyone following this advice is liable to prosecution.

Arab Palestinians who commit an offense that is *solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (Israelis)* shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offense committed.  The Israelis (in accordance with Articles 64  and 65)  may impose the death penalty on Arab  Palestinians in cases where the person is guilty of:​​◈.  Espionage,​◈.  Serious acts of sabotage against the military installations​◈.  Intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons​
Further, just the implied statements that advocate violence are punishable under International Law.

_*Article 20  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights*_​​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence *shall be prohibited by law*.​
Most Arab Palestinians do not understand that "incitement" (See;  *Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law / John P. Grant and J. Craig Barker. -- 3rd ed.  Copyright ˝ 2009 by Oxford University Press, Inc. pp 484/485*)

Preamble. By *S/RES/1624 ( 2005 )* of 14 September 2005, para. 6, of the mandate​​The Counter-Terrorism Committee (CTC) was_* extended to include monitoring incitement to commit terrorist acts*_. See < *www.un.org/sc/ctc* >; Nesi, International Cooperation in Counter-terrorism​





_Most Respectfully,_
R


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## Sixties Fan

(Satire )









						Man Who Insists Mizrahim Just ‘Arab Jews’ Also Hates When They ‘Appropriate Arab Culture’ – PreOccupied Territory
					

About half of Israel's Jewish population boasts Mizrahi ancestry.




					www.preoccupiedterritory.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

The Jerusalem Post reports:




> New research on several artifacts dating back 2,600 years and uncovered in the area of the Temple Mount or its immediate proximity has shed light on where both the Temple and the Kingdom of Judah’s treasuries once stood, two Israeli archaeologists have suggested.
> The two, Zachi Dvira and Dr. Gabriel Barkay, analyzed dozens of clay seals that were found over the decades by sifting soil from the holy area – where archaeological digs are not allowed – as well as from excavations at Ophel Park, adjacent to the southern wall of the Old City.
> Clay seals were used in antiquity to sign documents or containers, ensuring they would reach their recipients closed and untouched. The seals could bear symbols or inscriptions.
> “Scholars usually don’t consider the back of the seals, but by doing it, a lot can be learned, especially about the type of objects they were attached to,” said Dvira.
> By analyzing the seals, the scholars realized that a significant number of the artifacts carried impressions of woven fabrics on their reverse. This likely indicated that they were used to seal small bags filled with precious metals.



A lot of the evidence gathered for this research came from the Temple Mount Sifting Project, which goes through tons of debris that the Waqf dumped in the 1990s from their illegal digs underneath the Temple Mount. 

Since the Temple Mount Sifting Project has been going through the debris, it has found numerous findings from the First Temple period including these seals. Clearly, there was an important building on the site and others surrounding it during the Iron Age. The evidence would be far more fragmentary if it wasn't for the Muslims who tried to destroy Jewish history.

As far as I know, there had been essentially no findings from the First Temple period before the Sifting Project and a few other projects on or near the Mount.

Imagine what could have been found if Israel had not allowed the Waqf to build the Marwani Mosqueunderground











						The Muslims who tried to destroy Jewish history are unintentionally proving the existence of the First Temple
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

NY Times Corrects: Jerusalem, Not Tel Aviv, Is Israel's Capital
					

After twice publishing a book review which erroneously referred to Israel's 'government in Tel Aviv,' The New York Times has corrected, first online and




					www.camera.org


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

In an incident that made headlines in June 2020, Ahmad Erekat was caught on video committing an act of terrorism in a car-ramming attack on Israeli soldiers. In the attack, Erekat approached an Israeli checkpoint in Abu Dis, near Jerusalem and then abruptly accelerated and swerved his car 90 degrees into Israeli police, ramming and knocking a female officer into the air, before colliding with the booth and coming to a stop. Erekat is said to have ignored warnings issued by Israeli officers and swiftly exited his car, possibly in an effort to attack more soldiers.

Israel says he carried out a premeditated and intentional terror attack, whereas Erekat’s family says he was rushing to pick up his sister and mother ahead of a family wedding later that evening, and lost control of his vehicle.

Visitors at Mac’s exhibit watch an 18-minute video made by Forensic Architecture which claims that Erekat was “executed” by “Israeli occupation forces” after his car crashed at an Israeli checkpoint (Watch the video narrated by anti-Israel activist Angela Davis below). In the video, Israel is called a “neo-colonial regime”, and checkpoints are erroneously described as “illegal”.

(full article online)









						MAC Montréal Hosts Exhibit Claiming Israel Carried Out “Extrajudicial Execution” of Palestinian
					

Montreal’s Museum of Contemporary Art, MAC Montréal, is presently hosting an exhibit that portrays Israeli forces as having carried out




					honestreporting.ca


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## Sixties Fan

Thuman’s error is two-fold. First, no part of Jerusalem is, or ever has been, “Palestinian territory.” From 1948 to 1967, it was occupied by Jordan. Before that, Jerusalem was part of the British Mandate. The Nov. 29, 1947 partition plan had called for Jerusalem to be a _corpus separatum_, an international city administered by the UN for 10 years, at which point the city’s status was to be decided in a referendum. Before the British Mandate, the city was under Ottoman control, and so on. Going back through history, at no point was any part of the city “Palestinian territory.”

Other leading media outlets have corrected the identical or similar error. For instance, AP published the following significant correction Feb. 21, 2018, after erroneously reporting “east Jerusalem is Palestinian territory occupied by Israel since the 1967 war”: 



> In a story Feb. 21, The Associated Press reported that east Jerusalem is Palestinian territory occupied by Israel since 1967. The story should have made clear that this was quoting a speech by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to the U.N. Security Council. The Palestinians claim east Jerusalem as the capital of a future state, a position backed by most of the international community. Israel considers the entire city, including the eastern sector, to be its undivided capital.



Second, contrary to the report, the American consulate is located in west Jerusalem. The Palestinian Affairs Unit of the U.S. consulate in Jerusalem was located on Agron Street, in the western part of the city, not in east Jerusalem, which is the part of the city that Palestinians claim as capital of their future state. The west Jerusalem Agron Street building appears at 2:46 minutes into the broadcast (screen capture at left), precisely when Thuman refers to the “reopening of a diplomatic compound, an American consulate, located in a part of Jerusalem considered Palestinian territory.” The broadcast again show the Agron Street building and refers to the “reopening of the U.S. diplomatic facility for Palestinians in Jerusalem” at 4:09 minutes.

(Separately, the State Department also had operated America House Jerusalem, a center for cultural, tech and educational programs, located on Nablus Street in east Jerusalem. While the America House was in east Jerusalem, it wasn’t the consulate.) 

Both Reuters and _Haaretz_ have previously corrected after mislocating the U.S. consulate in east Jerusalem.

Thuman’s misinformation was not limited to supposed Palestinian sovereignty in Jerusalem or the location of the Agron Street building. Thuman also grossly misled about President Trump’s declaration that Jerusalem is Israel’s capital, stating: “At the time no other country in the world had made such a declaration.” Thuman also misreported that Trump’s declaration was a reversal of decades of US policy. In fact, The Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995 clearly and explicitly states: 



> The Congress makes the following findings: (1) Each sovereign nation, under international law and custom, may designate its own capital. (2) Since 1950, the city of Jerusalem has been the capital of the State of Israel.


Moreover, multiple other countries have previously located their embassies in Jerusalem.

Finally, in a startling indication that Thuman was clearly outside his depth, he employed extremely problematic and highly objectionable language referring to Palestinian “sovereignty blocked by an American and Jewish alliance.” What, precisely, did Thuman mean by an “American and Jewish alliance”? Did he mean American and _Israeli_? If so, that’s what he should have said because a) Jews also live in America in addition to numerous other countries all around the world. Are these dispersed Jews in their respective countries allegedly responsible for blocking Palestinian sovereignty? And b) The American government is largely Christian and its policy is mostly determined by the overwhelmingly Christian voting public which backs Israel. If Thuman cites “Jewish” as shorthand for Israel, shouldn’t he be consistent and cite “Christian” as shorthand for American? Obviously, the answer to the rhetorical question is “no,” and merely underscores that Thuman should have said “American and Israel alliance.”

(full article online)









						On Jerusalem, Sinclair TV's 'Full Measure' Is Fully Misinformed
					

Sinclair's foray outside local bounds and familiar playing fields into the distant Israeli-Palestinian arena spells coverage that is journalistically adrift.




					www.camera.org


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## Sixties Fan

The Washington Post on January 10 published a piece by Bloomberg columnist Max Hastings, titled “Israel’s Filmmakers Take Aim at the Nation’s Moral Ambiguities,” which seeks to reconcile the paradox of depictions on film of Israeli power and heroism with what he perceives to be contradictory realities on the ground.

Specifically, Hastings notes that Israeli perseverance has of late been depicted in works such as “The Spy” (2019, about an Israeli who for years infiltrated the highest ranks of the Syrian government), “Tehran” (2020, about spy operations in Iran), “Valley of Tears” (2020, about the 1973 Yom Kippur War) and the upcoming “Golda” (about Israel Prime Minister Golda Meir). Yet, the author argues, in the five decades since the Yom Kippur War, “the world has seen Israel exploit its military dominance to treat the Palestinian people with a harshness that cannot be justified merely by rehearsing the wickedness of terrorism.”

Under closer scrutiny, Hastings’ assertions turn out to be rather specious.

Ignored: Israeli Peace Efforts, Palestinian Rejectionism​Referring to the words of a former Shin Bet (Israel’s internal security service) chief from the film “The Gatekeepers,” Hastings concludes that “since the 1995 assassination of Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, successive Israeli governments had made no serious political attempt to secure peace, relying instead on the army and intelligence services to hold down the occupied territories.”

Yet it was five years after Rabin’s assassination that the Camp David Accords were convened. Mediated by US President Bill Clinton, the parameters of the deal offered sweeping concessions to Palestinian demands: an independent state on nearly 100 percent of the West Bank and Gaza with a road connecting the two territories, eastern Jerusalem as their capital with control over the Temple Mount, and a formula for the “Right of Return,” the claim by Palestinians that refugees and their descendants should be allowed to resettle in Israel.

Yet while Jerusalem accepted these terms, Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat rejected the peace offer.

(full article online)





__





						Washington Post Piece About Israeli Cinema Concocts 'Relentless' Settlement Expansion, Conceals Palestinian Rejectionism | Honest Reporting
					

By perpetuating common mischaracterizations of crucial aspects of Israeli history, Hastings confuses fact with narrative.




					honestreporting.com


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## RoccoR

RE: The Right To Destroy Jewish History
*SUBTOPIC*: Palestinian Rejectionism
※→ Sixties Fan, et al,

I agree with your obsevation.



Sixties Fan said:


> Ignored: Israeli Peace Efforts, Palestinian Rejectionism​...an independent state on nearly 100 percent of the West Bank and Gaza with a road connecting the two territories, eastern Jerusalem as their capital with control over the Temple Mount, and a formula for the “Right of Return,” the claim by Palestinians that refugees and their descendants should be allowed to resettle in Israel.


*(COMMENT)*

As the Arab Palestinians sink further and further behind in terms of 21st Century development, it is important to keep in mind: → that no matter how much they scream, chant, blog, march, dramatize, or fire indiscriminately targeted rockets to amplify their plight, → they brought this on themselves.  It is a consequence of seven decades of very poor leadership that consistently chose an unproductive path.

In 1948, the Arab Palestinians allowed the Arab League proxies to assume control over all that was outside the control of Israel. So, for two decades the Arab Palestinian territory (pre-1967), was occupied by some Arab entity other than the Palestinians. They could have had so much more than they have now; but, rejected cooperation at every turn. They have no right to complain…





_Most Respectfully,_
R


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## Sixties Fan

A news site I had not seen before, Al Khanadeq, showed up on my Google News feed. It may be Houthi - it is certainly pro-Iran and pro-Hezbollah and its readership is mostly in Yemen.

Here's the beginning of one article and the accompanying photo:








> The Jews saw that the most successful way to beautify the image of the Jew in the eyes of the world is to control the international media. In 1869, the Jewish Rabbi “Rashoron” expressed in his speech in the city of Prague the intensity of the Jews’ interest in the media, saying, “If gold is our first power to control the world, then the press should be our second strength."
> 
> In 1897, the first Zionist Congress in the Swiss city of Basel was a dangerous turning point. The participants said that their plan to establish an Israeli state would not succeed if they did not have complete control over the media, especially the press. Today, statistics indicate that 224 newspapers and bulletins are issued by Jewish organizations in America, in addition to forty secret bulletins circulated by Jews only, as well as their complete control over the major media.



I have no idea where this "Rabbi Rasharon" came from. I found that MEMRI had once translated an article from the most popular Palestinian newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadida that had these same paragraphs verbatim, but MEMRI translated the name as "Rabbi Yeshurun" which is almost as unlikely.

This is all stuff that was probably taken directly from a neo-Nazi site, yet the far Left that pretends to hate antisemitism and Nazis never say a word against Arab antisemitism. 

Because they are on the same side.









						Nah, nothing antisemitic about this!
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

> Sources say a small contingent of influential Academy members pushed hard for nonwhite cinema to be highlighted and white contributions to be de-emphasized. A review of the exhibits would seem to support this notion. Japanese animator Hayao Miyazaki, for example, received a retrospective, while there was no similar treatment for the genre’s godfather, Walt Disney.
> 
> The relative obscurity of others spotlighted, such as Ethiopian director Haile Gerima, who received the museum’s first Vanguard Award, left some patrons scratching their heads.
> 
> If identity was a priority in programming, Jewish identity apparently was not. There is scant mention of Jewish trailblazers.
> 
> A source who is familiar with programming decisions says it was a battle no one was willing to fight, even if that meant a skewed overview of cinema history: “A lot of people who might have fought harder for the representation of Jews were just really laying low,” says the source.



The museum will try to make up for this with a future, permanent exhibition highlighting Hollywood's history (that wasn't originally intended to be permanent.) But the damage has been done.


> “By not including the founding fathers out of the gate, they were making a massive statement,” says Triller co-founder and Academy member Ryan Kavanaugh. “As the grandson of Holocaust survivors, it’s just shocking that they erased the contributions of a group who faced severe anti-Semitism — they couldn’t get bank loans, they couldn’t own homes in L.A., and yet they still created this industry that is the bedrock of the L.A. economy and touches people around the world. Instead of, ‘Look at what what they were able to do,’ it’s just wiped out. It goes against everything that our industry says they stand for.”


Hollywood was built by Jews who were marginalized by society which forced them to create an entire new industry. Now, the small but loud bullies who dominate the woke, intersectional conversation decided that Jews should be marginalized again.

It is wonderful to highlight the contributions of minorities to motion pictures. It is antisemitic to airbrush out the Jews who created the entire industry.

(full article online)









						The Academy Museum shows how "intersectionality" marginalizes and discriminates against Jews
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

From the Chicago Tribune, October 6, 1899:





I was struck by by the examples that the 19th century writer used to describe the "old" antisemitism.

Jews commonly believed to murder infants?

(full article online )









						Modern antisemitism sounds a lot like Dark Ages antisemitism
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

StopAntisemitism received these photos of material that Joseph Massad is teaching in his Columbia University "Palestinian/Israeli Conflict" course. It came from a student taking the course.






Ths comes from "Holy land, hollow jubilee: God, justice and the Palestinians" which is a collection of speeches given at the1998 Sabeel International Conference. Sabeel is the antisemitic Palestinian Christian organization that preaches Christian supersessionism. The co-editor of the book, Naim Ateek, is an antisemite. 

The quote here is undeniably antisemitic, saying that Jews collaborated in the Holocaust. Zionists were trying to save Jewish lives, Nazis were trying to destroy Jewish lives. If this isn't antisemitic, nothing is.

And this is in a curriculum of a Columbia University professor.
------
The point of the book is that Israel acted in a racist way towards its Mizrahi citizens. This is true - but this was also 54 years ago. The author of the book says that Israel should become more Oriental and integrate more fully into the Middle Eastern culture in order to have a chance to make peace with Arabs, and what has happened since then is that the Arab nations have (slowly) become more Westernized - and many of them have made peace with Israel.

The irony is that every time Israel adopts Middle East culture, whether it is cuisine or dance or dress or music, people like Joseph Massad freak out and say that Israel is stealing it. 

Massad has a history of antisemitic rhetoric. The late Petra Maquardt-Bigman once made a quiz to see if anyone can distinguish between phrases written by Massad and the far right antisemites at Stormfront. He pushes the discredited Khazar theory. Oh, and he's a homophobe. 

The question isn't whether Massad is an antisemite who is teaching antisemitism to his students. The question is why Columbia allows a professor to spew hate disguised as pseudo-academia.

(full article online)









						Joseph Massad's insane antisemitic curriculum
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## RoccoR

RE: The Right To Destroy Jewish History
SUBTOPIC: Credibility
※→ Sixties Fan, et al,
Interesting*!*


Sixties Fan said:


> StopAntisemitism received these photos of material that Joseph Massad is teaching in his Columbia University "Palestinian/Israeli Conflict" course. It came from a student taking the course.
> ---
> The quote here is undeniably antisemitic, saying that Jews collaborated in the Holocaust. Zionists were trying to save Jewish lives, Nazis were trying to destroy Jewish lives. If this isn't antisemitic, nothing is.


*(COMMENT)*

There will always be alternative paths that lead the followers away from the Gateway to the truth.  That is simply how the global society works.

Some issues, like antisemitism, have more diversionary options than other controversies.  But all things being equal, the proper inquiry into the unknown will result in an outcome that is unassailable given the knowledge which is both sound and valid.

When you research the meaning of truth (as an example) in the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy you will find four conceptual discussions:

◈    Truth​​
Pluralist Theories
Prosentential Theory
Semantic Theory
Truthmaker Theory
But should you look at other sources you will see other approaches to the meaning and derivation of the truth.  To say that Rocco is an incompetent philosopher is TRUE is not the same as saying Rocco has the property of being an incompetent philosopher.  This approach is unstable and at times will break down when placed under examination.  This evaluation is similar to set theory and the assortment of characteristics.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


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## Turtlesoup

Sixties Fan said:


> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?


Nonsense...the muslims killed off the middle eastern jews to gain control of the land and to get rid of jews on the continent.   European Jews squatting on the property is still stealing as it was never really yours until the early 1900's when you stole it.   

I don't like muslims--but seriously we should be telling the truth.


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## Toddsterpatriot

Turtlesoup said:


> Nonsense...the muslims killed off the middle eastern jews to gain control of the land and to get rid of jews on the continent.   European Jews squatting on the property is still stealing as it was never really yours until the early 1900's when you stole it.
> 
> I don't like muslims--but seriously we should be telling the truth.



*the muslims killed off the middle eastern jews to gain control of the land*

Muslims killed Jews and stole their land?


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## RoccoR

RE: The Right To Destroy Jewish History
SUBTOPIC: Accusations
※→ Turtlesoup, et al,



Turtlesoup said:


> Nonsense...the muslims killed off the middle eastern jews to gain control of the land and to get rid of jews on the continent.   European Jews squatting on the property is still stealing as it was never really yours until the early 1900's when you stole it.
> 
> I don't like muslims--but seriously we should be telling the truth.


*(QUESTION)*

I always get confused about the issue of land theft and squatting.  When and where did this happen.  Get me an example.

I'm sure that I am confused.  I thought that the Arab Palestinians agreed to (_Para 3_, _A/PV.2268. 14 October 1974_), snd  ANNEX III Protocol Concerning Civil Affairs • *ARTICLE IV Special Provisions concerning Area "C"* • which *assigned Israel full civil and security control over Area “C"*.

Straighten me out here.

I also thought that the Arab Palestinians were specifically supposed to exercise Article V. Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements September 13, 1993:

*TRANSITIONAL PERIOD AND PERMANENT STATUS NEGOTIATIONS*

The five-year transitional period will begin upon the withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and Jericho area.
Permanent status negotiations will commence as soon as possible, but not later than the beginning of the third year of the interim period, between the Government of Israel and the Palestinian people representatives.
It is understood that these negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including: Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest.
The two parties agree that the outcome of the permanent status negotiations should not be prejudiced or preempted by agreements reached for the interim period.
And if that was not satisfactory then they had the option of exercising the *Principles of International Law Concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States*:

"States shall accordingly seek early and just settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, resort to regional agencies or arrangements or other peaceful means of their choice. In seeking such a settlement the parties shall agree upon such peaceful means as may be appropriate to the circumstances and nature of the dispute."​
Did the Arab Palestinians exercise any *International Dispute Resolutions Process* at all?

Did *HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement) withdraw this policy*:

18. The following are considered null and void: the Balfour Declaration, the British Mandate Document, the UN Palestine Partition Resolution, and whatever resolutions and measures that derive from them or are similar to them. The establishment of “Israel” is entirely illegal and contravenes the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and goes against their will and the will of the Ummah; it is also in violation of human rights that are guaranteed by international conventions, foremost among them is the right to self-determination.​​19. There shall be no recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist entity. Whatever has befallen the land of Palestine in terms of occupation, settlement building, Judaization or changes to its features or falsification of facts is illegitimate. Rights never lapse.​
I wonder... Did the Palestine National Charter get amended?

Article 9​"Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. This it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase. The Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it ."​​They also assert their right to normal life in Palestine and to exercise their right to self-determination and sovereignty over it.​​Article 19:​The partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal, regardless of the passage of time, because they were contrary to the will of the Palestinian people and to their natural right in their homeland, and inconsistent with the principles embodied in the Charter of the United Nations; particularly the right to self-determination.​
Article 20:​The Balfour Declaration, the Mandate for Palestine, and everything that has been based upon them is deemed null and void. Claims of historical or religious ties of Jews with Palestine are incompatible with the facts of history and the true conception of what constitutes statehood. Judaism, being a religion, is not an independent nationality. Nor do Jews constitute a single nation with an identity of its own; they are citizens of the states to which they belong.​
The Israelis never really occupied Palestinian Territory.  The Israeli Defense Force (IDF) actually Occupied Sovereign Jordanian Territory.  The Jordanians annexed the territory in April 1950.  DID these things change?

*On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament *in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.​
Article 3 • International Boundary, *◈ Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •* essentially says that the boundary between Israel and Jordan is the Jordan River.​​On *31 July 1988, the King of Jordan cut all ties with the territory West of the Jordan River*.  By default, that left Israel (the Occupation Force), the only organized government with assets already in place.​
I cannot remember such an event, but then I am an old man.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


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## Sixties Fan

Turtlesoup said:


> Nonsense...the muslims killed off the middle eastern jews to gain control of the land and to get rid of jews on the continent.   European Jews squatting on the property is still stealing as it was never really yours until the early 1900's when you stole it.
> 
> I don't like muslims--but seriously we should be telling the truth.


Yes, tell the truth and tell us why you do not like Jews to the point of killing all Misrahi and Sephardic Jews in Asia?

European Jews, South American Jews, Australian Jews are still Jews, always have been and will continue to be just as their very much alive "Middle Eastern" Jews.

Thank you for attacking Jews on this thread.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The "Jew as Nazi" meme is common among antisemites. To Jew-haters, the grotesque analogy is  delicious: the Jews are just as bad as their oppressors, the Jews are just as guilty of genocide, killing Jews is as moral as the French Resistance, Jews have no right to defend themselves, Jews haven't learned the "lessons" of the Holocaust - as if the Holocaust was merely a university for Jews who keep flunking their classes while the rest of the world who stood by and allowed them to be slaughtered are the professors. 

Who was the first to make this disgusting claim?

The earliest I can find comes from the British.

Lord Moyne, the British Minister of State in the Middle East, engaged in debate in British Parliament on June 9, 1942 about whether Jews in Palestine should be allowed to fight the Nazis. Lord Moyne opposed the idea, forcefully supported by Lord Wedgwood. His arguments sound a lot like antisemitism: he complained that the Jews wanted to allow their fellow Jews to immigrate to Palestine to save their lives:




> The Zionist claim has raised two burning issues: firstly, the demand for large-scale immigration into an already overcrowded country, and, secondly, racial domination by these newcomers over the original inhabitants..... The inhabitants of that small country—about the size of Wales, but much less fertile—are already threatened with conditions of grave congestion. At the present rate of increase, the Arab population will double within twenty-seven years. All the fertile soil is not only occupied but very closely cultivated. At the end of the last war, the Jewish community numbered 80,000. It now numbers about 450,000; and yet the Zionist Organization have indignantly refused the terms of the White Paper, under which further immigration should be allowed up to another 75,000 in five years.....





> Lord Wedgwood's effort has a far greater power of mischief in being addressed to America. It must surely have a deplorable effect upon our Allies to be told by an ex-Cabinet Minister that the Palestine Administration do not like Jews, and that there are enough Anti-Semites in Great Britain to back up the Hitler policy and spirit. This suggestion is a complete reversal of the truth. If a comparison is to be made with the Nazis it is surely those who wish to force an imported régime upon the Arab population who are guilty of the spirit of aggression and domination.


Here, he directly compared all Zionists who wanted to save the lives of millions of Jews to the Nazis.

Lord Moyne also threw in the Khazar theory that Ashkenazic Jews aren't really Jews and don't belong in the Middle East:



> It is very often loosely said that Jews are Semites, but anthropologists tell us that, pure as they have kept their culture, the Jewish race has been much mixed with Gentiles since the beginning of the Diaspora. During the Babylonian captivity they acquired a strong Hittite admixture, and it is obvious that the Armenoid features which are still found among the Sephardim have been bred out of the Ashkenazim by an admixture of Slav blood.


Prime Minister Winston Churchill brought up the analogy of Jews to Nazis not as a fact but as a fear after Lord Moyne was assassinated by members of Lehi in Egypt. From November 17, 1944:




> This shameful crime has shocked the world. It has affected none more strongly than those, like myself, who, in the past, have been consistent friends of the Jews and constant architects of their future. If our dreams for Zionism are to end in the smoke of assassins' pistols and our labours for its future to produce only a new set of gangsters worthy of Nazi Germany, many like myself will have to reconsider the position we have maintained so consistently and so long in the past.


Lord Moyne's successor, Sir James Grigg, echoed that opinion on January 3, 1945:

(full article online)









						The British were the first to compare Jews to Nazis as early as 1942. Arabs enthusiastically followed.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

I found an interesting if quite biased academic paper called "Palestinian Non-Violent Resistance and the
Apartheid Analogy" which traces the beginnings of the accusations that Israel is guilty of apartheid - an accusation that pre-dates "occupation."

While the author, Nina Fischer of Goethe University Frankfurt, tries to position the apartheid slur as just another means of "resistance"for Palestinians, she doesn't quite realize she is saying that lying about and slandering Israel is a conscious decision on the part of Palestinian leaders as a means to destroy it - just as violent resistance is. 

She traces the accusation to Fayez Sayegh,  one of those "Palestinians" who was born in Syria and whose family moved to Palestine in the 1920s to take advantage of the economic opportunities created by Jews. Sayegh became a major Palestinian theorist. He wrote a book about "Zionist colonialism" before 1967 and then became the UN's special rapporteur to the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination,  which enabled him to become one of the architects of the 1975 UNGA "Zionism is Racism" resolution. 

He would often equate Zionism with “genocide”, “crimes against humanity”, and “racist discrimination” alongside apartheid. It is clear to all that this was his weapon, in concert with Palestinian bombs.

Sayegh may have helped draft an UN resolution against apartheid, 3151 of 1974, by adding Zionism in its text. The resolution decried  the “unholy alliance” between “Portuguese colonialism, South African racism, zionism [sic] and Israeli imperialism.”

Fischer admits that  Sayegh used the apartheid slur mainly as "a metaphorical trope with much emotive power, shaping the international discourse and aiming to cause condemnations and the political isolation of Israel." 


Fischer reiterates this:


> [T]he term apartheid is harnessed for its emotive power. ...The Palestinian story needs telling in a way that resonates with an audience and guides listeners’ interpretations. This means that the apartheid analogy in the Palestinian context functions ...politically, as it allows being heard, aims to influence and shape opinions, and can create a reaction.....Internally, in Arabic, a different  story might be happening concerning terms employed, but Palestinian discourses in English that use apartheid as a prism were always intended for international consumption.


In other words, the apartheid analogy was always all about propaganda and never about facts. Its effectiveness is not a reflection of reality but of the eagerness for many people to label Jews as evil. 

The sequence of events since then is that the accusations that Zionism is racist and apartheid keep resurfacing, and every new generation tweaks the slur with more "facts" fed to them by fraudulent academics to make the accusations sound more legitimate. Even the reports of B'Tselem, HRW and now Amnesty show an evolution: each successive one tries to refine the argument because the previous ones were demolished. 

(full article online)









						From the beginning, the "apartheid" slur was meant as a rhetorical weapon, not as truth. And so it remains today.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

( Not enough Psychologist to deal with this sick culture of Appropriation of Jewish History.  Israel created the PA.   Israel should destroy it.  But how, when so many Christians and Muslims continue to work with lies and cheating to destroy Israel )


The Palestinian Authority has written a fictitious history for itself that is both comical and dangerous. The PA claims Palestinians to be distinct in the annals of history, being the only people to have defeated many of the greatest empires. Incredibly, the Romans, Greeks, Persians, Pharaohs, Hyksos and Tatars, all were defeated by the Palestinians, according to Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh speaking in the name of Mahmoud Abbas, at the Palestinian Martyrs’ Day ceremony in Ramallah.

Given that only last century after the creation of the State of Israel did some Arabs of the land of Israel adopt a Palestinian identity, the PA’s Prime Minister’s fantasy could be dismissed as laughable and irrelevant. However, the continuation of the PM’s words, using this fantasy history to justify his call to fight to destroy Israel, shows how dangerous even a lie can be:



> “We have defeated all the invaders who passed through the land of Palestine. On behalf of the Martyrs we will defeat this hated occupation [Israel] that will leave our land.”
> [Official PA TV Live, Jan. 9, 2022]


 Tragically, this fictitious history and its terror demands are being passed on to Palestinian youth. As Palestinian Media Watch recently exposed in its report on Fatah’s Waed children’s educational magazine for ages 6-15, the identical messages are taught although the empires that the Palestinians are said to have defeated change. Palestinian children are taught that they defeated the “Babylonians, the Persians, the Samaritans, the Assyrians, the Hyksos, the Hittites, the Pharaohs, and the Hebrews,” and this proves they will likewise defeat and destroy Israel:









						Miraculous Palestinian history: “We [Palestinians] defeated the Hyksos, the Romans, the Greeks, the Persians, the Tatars, and the Pharaohs,” and will defeat Israel as well | PMW Analysis
					

“We defeated the Hyksos, the Romans, the Greeks, the Persians, the Tatars, and the Pharaohs. We have defeated all the invaders who passed through the land of Palestine. On behalf of the Martyrs we will defeat this hated occupation [Israel] that will leave our land.”




					palwatch.org


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## Sixties Fan

But it was the third guest on The Current whose comments were the most detached from reality.

CBC gave the last word to Yara Hawari, a Palestinian writer and senior analyst at Al-Shabaka, The Palestinian Policy Network, and host of the podcast “Rethinking Palestine”, who told the host that “our material and archival history has been systematically destroyed and looted by the Israeli regime for decades.” This comment is especially perplexing, since it is the Israeli government which helped fund the development of this documentary, and Israeli television stations who are broadcasting it. Those are not the actions of a government and society attempting to stifle information, or censor the truth, but the complete opposite.

Hawari didn’t stop there. Rather than addressing the film itself, or the incident of Tantura, she launched into an anti-Israel tirade.

“What Israel continues to do…it’s very much a continuous part of our lived reality. Last year in May, the Israeli regime massacred Palestinians in Gaza,”Hawari told Galloway, who did not attempt to challenge or correct her.

Israel did not, contrary to Hawari’s assertions, commit “massacres”, “war crimes” and “atrocities” in Gaza during the 2021 war with Hamas in Gaza. The armed conflict began with violent Arab riots against Jewish targets in Jerusalem, which were cheered on by Hamas, who later fired an estimated four thousand rockets against Israeli targets, both civilian and military, killing not only innocent Israelis, but also one Indian and two Thai nationals who were working in Israel.

In the face of such overt terrorism, all countries, Israel included, have the right of self-defense. Despite Hamas’ proclivity to embed its terrorists within densely populated areas, Israel’s targeted focus was laudable.

The Current and host Matt Galloway deprived listeners of this context and instead granted Hawari a platform to vilify Israel and frame it as a systematic violator of human rights.

(full article online)









						CBC The Current Features Speaker Peddling Anti-Israel Misinformation
					

On the January 31’s edition of CBC’s The Current, host Matt Galloway discussed a new Israeli documentary film about the




					honestreporting.ca


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## Sixties Fan

It’s an often-used tactic by the Palestinians to deny history as well as legitimate Jewish rights to the land of Israel.

A PA TV program attempts to erase history and said that Jewish presence at the Temple Mount is a “break-in,” the “alleged Temple” is a “myth.”

The Jewish connection to the Temple Mount is indisputable and archaeological discoveries have proven the Jewish connection to the land of Israel and of the existence of the two Jewish Temples.

Palestinian lies can never change that.









						WATCH: TV Show Erases Jewish History, Claims Temple is a ‘Myth’ | United with Israel
					

PA TV describes existence of First and Second Jewish Temples as 'myth.'




					unitedwithisrael.org


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## Sixties Fan

One of them, A/76/289, is based on previous UN resolutions calling for Israel to compensate Palestinians for properties they abandoned in 1948. It refers to this one from 2018 but virtually identical resolutions have been put forth regularly for decades. 

These resolutions "Calls upon all the parties concerned to provide the Secretary-General with any pertinent information in their possession concerning Arab property, assets and property rights in Israel that would assist him in the implementation of the present resolution."

Who responds to these resolutions?

In 2021, four countries responded. Not one of them responded with "pertinent information in their possession concerning Arab property, assets and property rights in Israel."

The responses were from Bahrain, Ecuador, Japan and "the State of Palestine."

Ecuador wrote a couple of paragraphs about the importance of the resolution. Japan wrote a long, irrelevant submission about how it is trying to help Palestinians and promote peace. The "State of Palestine" used this as an opportunity to write an Israel-bashing essay and support for UNRWA.

Bahrain's submission is the most problematic:




> • We affirm that the Palestinian refugee issue is at the heart of the Palestinian cause. We uphold the inherent and inalienable right of generations of Palestinian refugees and their descendants to return to the homes from which they wer e displaced, in accordance with international resolutions, and in particular General Assembly resolution 194 (III) and the Arab Peace Initiative.
> • We condemn and reject any attempts by any party to nullify Palestinian refugees’ right of return or to distort the refugee issue by attempting to resettle them, dismantle the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), stop its funding or deprive future generations of their right of return through a so-called redefinition of their legal status.



Like the others, this has nothing to do with the resolution. It is a call for Israel to allow itself to be destroyed with an influx of millions of fake refugees. 

Bahrain did not have to submit anything. But it chose to emphasize the false "right of return." 

I can imagine that this was a response to Palestinian rage at their normalization agreement with Israel, a message that "hey, we are still on your side." Even so, given that they are now at peace with Israel, this is concerning.

(full article online)









						A look at one of the 40 anti-Israel UN reports last year
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

Herizons describes itself as a Winnipeg-based feminist magazine, published quarterly, which according to its website, “covers gender justice, the activists and artists making it happen, and the global feminist movement.” Herizons acknowledges that it receives funding both from the Manitoba Arts Council, and the Government of Canada.

In its Fall 2021 issue, Herizons published a review by Nuzhat Abbas of “A White Lie,” a book by Barbara Bill and Ghada Adeel, published by the University of Alberta Press, which purports to share stories about women’s experiences during the Nakba, an Arabic term meaning “catastrophe,” referring to when Israel successfully achieved independence in 1948 from the United Kingdom. (As the review is not online, it can be read in full at the bottom of this alert).

The book’s forward is sympathetically described by Abbas as “moving” and refers to Israel’s independence as “the largest, longest, most continuous ethnic cleansing operation in the history of Palestine.”

Abbas later makes reference to how, in 1948, “Indigenous Palestinians fled to Gaza to escape Israeli massacres and the mass destruction of their villages.”

Reading such historical revisionism, one is reminded of the famous quote by Daniel Patrick Moynihan, American diplomat, and politician, who said that “everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to his own facts.”

In this case, the authors of “A White Lie,” and the reviewer alike, are playing fast and loose with the truth.

----------
But perhaps most perplexing about Abbas’ review of “A White Lie,” is not what was included, but what was omitted, especially for a feminist magazine. The review did not mention at all how women in Gaza live today under the oppressive Hamas Islamist regime. Women are not, as per Hamas laws, allowed to leave the home without a male escort, and they suffer enormously under the gender apartheid system of Hamas’ extreme Sharia law, which dictates how women dress and what they cannot do in society. In Israel, conversely, Muslim women have the freedom to live, pray and travel as they see fit, and without any restrictions. Meanwhile, Israeli women are at the pinnacle of Israeli society, whether as CEO’s of major start-ups, supreme court justices, leaders of political parties, broadcasters, etc. Just this past week, Israel’s first female Muslim district court judge, Osaila Abu Assad, was announced.

(full article online)









						Winnipeg-Based Feminist Magazine Publishes Book Review Accusing Israel of 'Ethnic Cleansing Operation' of Palestinians
					

Herizons describes itself as a Winnipeg-based feminist magazine, published quarterly, which according to its website, “covers gender justice, the activists




					honestreporting.ca


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

You will note that there was no ‘Palestinian’ uprising or ‘Palestinian’ claims to Jerusalem against the Romans, only a Jewish fight for their indigenous lands. Thus, it is from the term Philistines that the name Palestine derives and both Philistines and Palestinians have the commonality of being invaders, the former from the Greek Islands, the latter from surrounding Arab countries. The very definition of their name has nothing whatsoever to do with ethnicity but is simply a descriptive application linked to the geography. Furthermore, and unsurprisingly the origination of the name Philistine derives from the Hebrew ”Peleshet” meaning invaders or penetrators.

Is it not therefore an absurd irony that today’s Palestinian Arabs call themselves after extinct Greek, seafaring invaders or uncultured, uncouth heathens? Why would any people, tribe or race accept, indeed be proud of such negative descriptions? The former immediately debunks their very existence and the latter is not the kind of description to take pride in.

Even more imbecilic, why call themselves a name they cannot pronounce in their mother tongue? An English word derived from Hebrew, describing Greeks, then translated into Latin without any Arabic derivation and with such offensive definitions to their, albeit false history and culture.

No, no, shout the offended Palestinians, we are called Filastinians, that is the Arabic word for us. Oh really, this disciplined researcher retorts in astonishment. But ‘Filastine’ is simply the Arab pronunciation of Philistine and therefore apart from one letter to conform with Arabic vocalization the Filastinians are still naming themselves after extinct Greek sailors or uncouth, uncultured heathens – and in Queen’s English. You really couldn’t make it up, it’s Monty Pythonesque – that was a British comedy mocking absurd situations which were themselves exaggerated.

Further investigation is surely necessary as it is patently imbecilic that supposedly, indigenous peoples should be satisfied with such negative and offensive definitions debunking all claims of indigenous ethnicity. So we research into the Filastinian historical archives in the expectation of discovering a people or persons who identified as indigenous Filastinian leaders or a war, battle or conflict fought by indigenous Filastinians against any domestic or foreign invaders throughput the centuries of warfare in their apparent homeland in an attempt to recapture their cherished Jerusalem.

Maybe we will find archaeological evidence of a Filastinian currency, town or city; maybe an historical construct originated and built by indigenous Filastinians and the name of the Filastinian architect. If the Filastinians are indigenous then history and evidence must surely reveal the name of any one, just one historical Filastinian King, Queen, Prince, Princess, President, Imam, Leader, Warrior, Apothecary, Writer, Poet, Scribe, Soldier, Sailor, Tinker, Tailor, Butcher, Baker or Candlestick maker.

Alas, there is no such evidence to be found of any race, culture, or people. Other noted travelers to the area , listed here such as Edward Webbe, 1553 – 1590 , Adrian Reland 1676 – 1718 , Count Constantine Francois Volney 1757 – 1820 , William Thackeray, 1811 – 1863 , Gustav Flaubert , 1821 – 1880 , James Finn 1806 – 1872 , Mark Twain , 1835 – 1910 , and B.W. Johnson, 1833 – 1894 , never recorded , discovered nor wrote of the indigenous Palestinians or Filastinians. These itinerant scribes did not write about them nor the villages they supposedly inhabited because they never existed.

(full article online)









						The Palestinian myth explained and analyzed
					

Are Palestinian historical claims to the geography a lie? Read and decide for yourself. Opinion.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Elder of Ziyon has taken note of a recent article in “the most influential newspaper in the Arab world” that calls into question the real Holocaust – the murder of six million Jews – and instead, claims that the “worst calamity” of the 20th century was the “Palestinian Holocaust.”

His article can be found here: “‘Most Influential Arab Newspaper’ says ‘Palestinian Holocaust’ worse than …The Holocaust,” Elder of Ziyon, January 30, 2022:



> _Ad Dustour_ is a pro-government Jordanian newspaper that was declared as the most influential newspaper in the Arab world in Industry Arabic’s latest rankings. It is partially owned by the Jordanian government itself, so it will never say anything that goes against official government policy.


_Ad Dustour_ is not some disreputable checkout-counter tabloid; the Jordanian newspaper, chosen as the ”most influential newspaper in the Arab world,” must be taken seriously, even when it spouts nonsense. It can run articles like this, that question the Jewish Holocaust and bewail the real “worst calamity of the 20th century,” the “Palestinian Holocaust,” and be taken seriously by its benighted audience across the Arab world.



> That includes Holocaust denial.





> Columnist Rashid Hassan not only casts doubt as to whether the Holocaust actually occurred, but he parrots a claim that the “Palestinian Holocaust” was the worst calamity of the past century.
> More than the Shoah. More than Cambodia or Rwanda or Darfur.


The Shoah claimed the lives of six million Jews. The Khmer Rouge killed between 1.5 and 2 million people in Cambodia. In Rwanda, between 500,000 and 800,000 Tutsis were killed by Hutus. In Darfur, the Arab Janjaweed killed between 80,000 and 500,00 black Africans. In the Bangladesh war for independence in 1971, the Pakistani army and Islamist collaborators killed between 300,000 and three million Bangladeshis. During the Ukrainian Terror-Famine, or Holodomor, of 1932-1933, between seven and ten million people starved to death. During the Stalinist repression of 1937-1938, between 700,000 and 1.2 million Soviet citizens were murdered — a small part of the total of 40 million people are believed to have died because of Stalin’s murderous rule throughout the 1930s. About 80 million Chinese died unnatural deaths when Chairman Mao ran the country, most of them in the famine following the Great Lea Forward. But what are all these, compared to the “worst calamity of the 20th century” – the “Palestinian Holocaust”?



> He writes about how Holocaust Remembrance Day is a cynical ploy by Israel to gain sympathy and distract the world from the real genocide.


Rashid Hassan has his doubts about that so-called “Jewish Holocaust.” He’s convinced it has been exaggerated by the wily Zionists, to gain the world’s sympathy despite Israel’s horrendous treatment of the Palestinians. And what’s more, the world’s Jews have managed to distract attention from the great tragedy of the past century, the “Palestinian Holocaust.” You haven’t heard of it? Of course not. It’s not in any of the schoolbooks. Or the history books. The Jews who, let’s not forget, control the world’s media, have made sure of that. It’s the greatest cover-up in world history. Those diabolically clever and malevolent Jews have simply removed the story of the Palestinian Holocaust from the world’s collective consciousness; it’s a gone down the rabbit hole to that underground river, the Lesser Lethe. So it’s up to a few intrepid souls, with Rashid Hassan in the lead, to make sure that the world remembers the “Palestinian Holocaust.”



> While the hypocritical world – and most of it – celebrates the so-called “Zionist Holocaust” and makes a date for it[sic] January 27, we find this world ignoring the Palestinian Holocaust, which has been going on for 105 years… since the ominous promise… the Balfour Declaration of 1917 until today..
> 
> 
> 
> <p>
> The Arab population in Palestine in 1917 was about 600,000. Today there are over, according to the Palestinians themselves, some 12 million Palestinians.</p>
Click to expand...



So from 1917 until today, the Palestinian population has, despite this terrible “Holocaust” that no one, save Rashid Hassan, has ever heard of, increased 20 times.



> Some Holocaust!
> Oh, and the UN spends orders of magnitude more time and money on Palestinian issues than on the [Jewish] Holocaust.


The U.N. gives more critical attention to Israel than it does to any other country. At every session of the UN Human Rights Council, a special agenda item – Item #7 – is devoted to the “Human rights situation in Palestine and other occupied Arab territories,” which is defined by UNHRC Resolution 5/1 as covering “Human rights violations and implications of the Israeli occupation of Palestine and other occupied Arab territories.” The other nine items on the Council’s permanent agenda are all generic, and do not refer to any particular country or situation. There is no special agenda item on Iran, Syria, North Korea, China, Russia, or any other country. Only Israel.

And the U.N. General Assembly similarly spends an inordinate amount of time on Israel. In 2020, the UNGA singled out Israel for condemnation a total of 17 times, while for the entire rest of the world combined – 192 countries – there was a total of six such condemnations.

Now the UN General Assembly has voted to establish a commission that will engage in an open-ended investigation of Israeli “war crimes.” No other country – not Syria, not China, not Russia – will have its “war crimes” investigated by a permanent commission of inquiry.

Rashid Hassan wants us to believe that Israel has managed to win the world’s sympathy by spinning tall tales about the so-called Holocaust of the Jews. The record at the U.N. do not support that claim about Israel having “the world’s sympathy.” Nor do the venomously anti-Israel reports issued by such NGOs as Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International.

When did this “Palestinian Holocaust” begin? In Rashid Hassan’s telling, it all started with the Balfour Declaration, though not a single Arab in Palestine died when the Declaration — in the form of a letter to Lord Rothschild — was issued. It was only when the Palestinian Arabs began to attack the Jewish pioneers, in the 1920s, and the Jews fought back in self-defense, that hundreds of Arabs died. More Arab combatants were killed, mainly by the British Army, during the Arab Revolt of 1936-1939; possibly as many as 5,000 died. During the 1948 war, about 800 Arab civilians were killed. Holocaust? What Holocaust?



> Certainly, this hypocrisy is linked to the major international conspiracy carried out by Britain, America and many Western countries to establish the Zionist entity on the land of Arab Palestine… and to displace its people in the four winds of the earth.


There was no “international conspiracy” to establish the Zionist entity. In fact, the British refused to recognize their duty, under Article 6 of the Mandate for Palestine, to facilitate Jewish immigration and “close settlement by Jews on the land.” From the late 1930s on, the British did everything they could to prevent Jewish immigration to Palestine. In 1939 the British government’s White Paper allowed for a maximum of 15,000 Jews to enter Mandatory Palestine during each of the next five years; after that, any Jewish immigration would be subject to an Arab veto, which meant that such immigration would stop. This White Paper was adopted just when the Jews of Europe were entering a state of maximum peril. Just before and during World War II the British prevented ships carrying Jewish refugees from reaching Mandatory Palestine. This policy prevented perhaps a million desperate European Jews, who might have escaped to Palestine by sea from French and Romanian ports early in the war, from doing so. After the war, the British continued their unspeakably cruel blockade, in order to prevent Jewish survivors of the Nazi camps from reaching Palestine. The most famous episode of wanton cruelty by the British concerned the ship called _Exodus. _From the Holocaust Encyclopedia:

(full article online)





__





						That ‘Palestinian Holocaust' | Frontpage Mag
					

Worst calamity of the 20th Century,’ according to most influential Arab newspaper.




					www.frontpagemag.com


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## Mindful

Pretend for a moment that the Vatican has in its possession some sacred and precious relics that were originally in the Herodian Jewish Temple located in Jerusalem 1,950 years ago.

If you were the pope living in the 14th century and could verify this fact, would you not ask yourself how indeed such Jewish artifacts had come to your residence in the first place?

After some digging around (no pun intended), you would have found that your new Vatican residence was actually built over sections of Caesar’s Palace – the Vatican, including St. Peter’s Basilica, was constructed over Emperor Vespasian’s Roman palace approximately 200 years after the sacking of Rome in 455 AD. Indeed, there are excavations going on there right now, even as you read this magazine.

What this means is that the vandals and the Visigoths passed over, or simply didn’t find, the select treasures secreted away in that palace, and instead took with them the many items on public display in the Temple, located not far away.









						Is there new evidence of Jewish Temple treasures in the Vatican?
					

There are several people alive that can personally attest to being eyewitnesses of the Vatican possessing Temple vessels, including the Menorah candelabra.




					www.jpost.com


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## surada

That's ridiculous. Palestinians are from Palestine.



MJB12741 said:


> "Right of return"!  You bring up an outstanding point.  Why is it that no Arab country will grant their Palestinians a "right of return"?


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## Sixties Fan

Jacobs made a few general, unremarkable statements about examples of anti-Semitism. One of her examples was “denying Jewish history.” And that’s obviously true.

But Jacobs, who fervently supports the Palestinian statehood cause, does not seem to have considered the implications of her statement with regard to the man who would become the head of the Palestinian state that she wants to see established in Judea and Samaria, and the Old City of Jerusalem.

I’m talking about the fact that Abbas is one of the most outspoken deniers of Jewish history in the world today. He has made so many statements denying Jewish history that they could fill a book—and, in fact, they have; he is the author of an entire book claiming that the Nazis killed only 1 million Jews and accusing Israel’s first prime minister, David Ben-Gurion, of collaborating with the Nazis. But for now, I’m going to cite just two of his speeches because they are particularly revealing.

On Jan. 14, 2018, Abbas addressed the Palestinian Central Council at P.A. headquarters in Ramallah. A few excerpts from his lie-filled tirade:

— “Israel … is a colonial project that has nothing to do with Judaism.”

— It was not the British White Paper or mass murder by the Nazis that kept Jews from going to Palestine, but rather, “the Jews did not want to emigrate, even with murder and slaughter.”

— Jews in Yemen and Iraq “didn’t want to come” to Israel, but Ben-Gurion forced them to by collaborating with Iraqi officials “to take away the citizenship of Jews and force them to emigrate.”

— When Theodor Herzl visited Palestine, he said: “We must wipe out the Palestinians from Palestine so that Palestine will be a land without a people for a people without a land.”

On April 20, 2018, Abbas addressed the legislature of the Palestine Liberation Organization, which he chairs. Here are a few of the slurs, lies and assorted absurdities that he mouthed:

— The Jews in Europe provoked the Holocaust because of their “social function” as money-lenders.

— Jews are to blame for communism because Josef Stalin was a secret Jew.

— Today’s Jews are not authentically Jewish, but are actually descendants of the Khazars, a medieval Turkish tribe, “which means they are not Semitic and have no relation to Semitism and have nothing to do with the prophets Abraham or Jacob.”

— There were never any pogroms in Arab countries, as proven by the fact “that there were Jews in Arab countries. Why wasn’t there ever one incident against Jews because they’re Jews? Not even once … in over 1,400 years.”

Abbas’s denials of Jewish history were so egregious that even some of Jacobs’s closest allies on the American Jewish left were compelled to condemn him. Americans for Peace Now charged that Abbas made “vile anti-Semitic statements.” J Street acknowledged that Abbas’s address “featured absurd anti-Semitic tropes and deeply offensive comments on the history of the Jewish people and Israel.”

Even The New York Times, despite its strong pro-Palestinian leanings, reported that Abbas’s remarks were “laced with deeply anti-Semitic tropes.” And Nickolay Mladenov, the U.N. special coordinator for the Middle East, said Abbas was “perpetuating conspiracy theories that fuel anti-Semitism.”

All of which creates a bit of a problem for Rabbi Jill Jacobs and her colleagues at T’ruah.

According to her own definition, the P.A. boss is an anti-Semite. Which means that she will now either drop her call for a Palestinian state—since, of course, it’s crazy to give a sovereign state to a rabid anti-Semite; or she will argue that even though Abbas is an anti-Semite, he should be given a sovereign state just a few miles from Israel’s major cities—which, of course, is crazy since it would mean putting millions of lives in direct danger.

(full article online)









						Jewish left leader accidentally calls Palestinian Authority chief an anti-Semite
					

I hope she will confront the powerful implications of her own words.




					www.jns.org


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## Sixties Fan

The crucial point that had been absent in reports is that Israeli courts had previously ruled that the home, business, as well as two storage units, had been built illegally on publicly owned land.

As a result of this selective reporting, the story of Sheikh Jarrah/Shimon HaTzadik has been repeatedly framed as that of helpless Palestinians being victimized by Israeli authorities engaged in a campaign to drive people out of their homes.

This grossly oversimplified depiction of events taking place in eastern Jerusalem pervades despite these important aspects of the Sheikh Jarrah/Shimon HaTzadik story being regularly emphasized in the local press (see here, here, and here). Furthermore, significant portions of the eastern Jerusalem neighborhood’s history have been essentially struck from the mainstream media’s narrative.

Sheikh Jarrah and the Hadassah Medical Convoy Massacre​Violence broke out in Israel following the passage in 1947 of UN General Assembly Resolution 181. Known as the partition plan, the resolution called for the breakup of British Mandatory Palestine into three territories: an internationally-controlled area for Jerusalem and its holy sites, a territory for a future Palestinian state, and another for a future Jewish state. Each territory contained a mix of Arab and Jewish communities and were shaped into lobes connected by narrow necks.

-------
The episode, which is referred to in some Arabic publications as the “battle of Sheikh Jarrah,” took place at a time when communities in the area were relatively mixed. The historical record reveals the centrality of Sheikh Jarrah/Shimon HaTzadik to both the Jewish and Arab communities. Survivors of the Hadassah Medical Convoy Massacre have spoken of the trauma to the Jewish community that followed the bloody events in eastern Jerusalem; of having childhood friends move away because they had lost a parent in the convoy, and of the rise in Arab-on-Jewish violence that made coexistence impossible.

Ultimately, the convoy ambush in Sheikh Jarrah proved to be a strategic turning point for Arab forces. A few weeks later, they succeeded in cutting Mount Scopus off from Jewish Jerusalem by seizing the road on which the massacre had occurred. After 700 Jewish doctors, medical students, and patients were evacuated in response to this turn of events, the historic Hadassah Hospital was abandoned. The role of Sheikh Jarrah in ensuring a victory for the Arabs bent on the nascent Jewish state’s destruction had proven to be essential.

Despite the current events in Sheikh Jarrah being portrayed almost exclusively by the media as a Palestinian enclave facing threats from a belligerent Israel, the Hadassah Convoy Massacre indicates that the dearth of Jews in the neighborhood is a relatively recent development and was the result of a successful campaign by Arabs to drive Jews out of the area.

The omission of this context from the coverage of reports coming out of Sheikh Jarrah/Shimon HaTzadik helps perpetuate the notion that the situation in the neighborhood has always been as it is today – that of interloping Jews moving into an area to which they have never had any historical connection.

Such revisionism enables Reuters, AFP, AP and other news organizations to frame Israel as embarking on a campaign of conquest. It is journalism that serves to deny individuals around the world of knowledge about the complicated story of Sheikh Jarrah/Shimon HaTzadik, a place where Jews and Arabs once lived side-by-side until the violent rejectionism of Jewish self-determination culminated in the recent events.

(full article online)









						The Real Ethnic Cleansing in Sheikh Jarrah That Has Been Struck From Media Reports | Honest Reporting
					

When two people were injured and six arrested during clashes in the eastern Jerusalem neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah/Shimon HaTzadik on February 13,




					honestreporting.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

How many of the Arabs killed were combatants? What were the circumstances under which they died? All that has been the subject of much dispute. Interestingly, the testimonies of the Jews and Arabs who were at Deir Yassin that day are consistent with each other. Meanwhile, a narrative was formed about Deir Yassin in the public imagination—one that portrays Jewish troops as rapists and child-murderers. That narrative was established by people far from the scene who were crafting post-battle propaganda. How to correct the record? 

That was the task Eliezer Tauber, an influential Middle East historian and former dean at Bar-Ilan University, set for himself. It was simple but ambitious: He would comb through the eyewitness testimony in Hebrew and Arabic to identify every single fatality and how each person died. “I do not think the investigator will be able to reach his research goals,” was how one reader for the Israel Science Foundation responded to Tauber’s book proposal. But Tauber succeeded. The book that resulted, The Massacre That Never Was, came out in Israel in 2018. It is indisputably the authoritative account of the battle that began the morning of April 9, 1948. 

American readers have had to wait four years for a translation from the Hebrew. Why? Well, one university press in America told Tauber that “we could sell well to the right-wing community here but we would end up with a terrible reputation,” as Shmuel Rosner reported in 2018. Koren Publishers admirably stepped into the breach and, by publishing The Massacre That Never Was, has not only done the historical record a genuine service but has also exposed the cowardice and pusillanimity of the publishing houses that refused to touch Tauber’s groundbreaking work for fear of offending the leftists and Arabists who dominate Middle Eastern studies in American universities. 

The background to the Deir Yassin tragedy is this: Palestine’s Arab population declared war on the nascent Jewish state as soon as the United Nations approved its plan to partition Mandatory Palestine into two countries, one Jewish and one Arab, in November 1947.

(full article online)









						Propaganda Exposed
					

In April 1948, Deir Yassin was an Arab village of about a thousand residents. It was captured then by Jewish forces seeking to break the siege of Jerusalem during the war




					www.commentary.org


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?


Israel was usually controlled by by Egypt, or Babylon, Syria, the Greeks, Turks.. it was never exclusively Jewish. Arabs were there from the time of Abraham.. around 600 bc Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Israel was usually controlled by by Egypt, or Babylon, Syria, the Greeks, Turks.. it was never exclusively Jewish. Arabs were there from the time of Abraham.. around 600 bc Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria.


Set a new session with your Professional  Psychiatrist 

Last session took no effect.


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

The antisemitism du jour distorts and erases Jewish history to reflect a narrative that is driven by political agendas - one that is intent on erasing Jews and delegitimizing their rights. When unhinged lies become gospel, it emboldens antisemites and provides a cover for their attacks against Jews. Without the truth, the Jewish people’s rights and safety are under threat.


This isn’t the first time antisemites have attempted to erase Jewish historical truths. The early Christian church claimed that the Jews were responsible for Deicide when it was actually the Romans. The Soviet regime was one of the pioneers of Holocaust distortion and rejected that the Nazis targeted Jews. A more recent example is the denial of the Jewish historical connection to the land of Israel.

-----
Mark Twain famously asked in his essay ‘Concerning the Jews,’ “The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then faded to dream-stuff and passed away; the Greek and the Roman followed, and made a vast noise, and they are gone; other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it burned out, and they sit in twilight now, or have vanished. The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?”


Our secret is and has always been our commitment to remembering our extraordinary past, treasuring our traditions, and passing them on to future generations. When we remember, we can ensure the world never forgets.

(full article online)









						Jewish history is under attack - opinion
					

The Jewish heritage been committed to remember our past, treasure our traditions, and pass them on to future generations. When we remember, we can ensure the world the world never forgets.




					www.jpost.com


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## Sixties Fan

WATCH: Al-Jazeera Blatantly Lies About Palestinian History | United with Israel
					

The Qatar-sponsored network dishonestly claims that an Arab country called Palestine pre-existed Israel.




					unitedwithisrael.org


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## Sixties Fan

The publication this month of Amnesty International’s report charging Israel with maintaining a “cruel system of apartheid” and of trying to establish “Jewish domination and control over specific areas of strategic importance” — all the while treating Palestinians and Arab Israelis as “inferior non-Jewish racial group” — set off a torrent of accusations in the media that Israel is comprised of settler interlopers (see here, here, and here).

It isn’t.

The uncritical depiction of Jews as having “stolen” or “colonized” land belonging to the Palestinians is patently false. And the inaccurate portrayal erases the Jewish people’s ancient connection to Israel while posing a danger to the Jewish state by delegitimizing the historical and cultural foundations upon which it was re-established after 2,000 years.
-------
As Media Promote Libel, Global Antisemitism Increases​By uncritically perpetuating the Jewish Israeli-as-settler-colonialist myth, major media outlets (see here, here, here and here) are making it possible for anti-Zionists to cloak their rejection of the Jewish state in the language of “human rights” or “social justice.”

One notable example was when supermodel Bella Hadid last May posted to her Instagram account, which has 42 million followers, a series of cartoons referring to Israelis as “occupiers” and Palestinians as the “oppressed.” In one cartoon, a woman tells her friend: “There is no ‘fighting’. There is only Israeli colonization, ethnic cleansing, military occupation and apartheid.”

By not calling out the sustained campaign to demean and isolate the world’s only Jewish state, news outlets are effectively turning a blind eye to chronic Palestinian rejectionism and thus making it more difficult to resolve the conflict.

All, mind you, as antisemitism is reaching levels that should concern every objective observer.

(full article online)









						Debunking Another Anti-Israel Myth: Jewish Self-Determination is Not a 'Colonial' Enterprise | Honest Reporting
					

The publication this month of Amnesty International’s report charging Israel with maintaining a "cruel system of apartheid" and of trying to establish




					honestreporting.com


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## Sixties Fan

gyptian newspaper Al Masry al-Youm describes a forum at Al Azhar about this story, attempting to answer any skeptics about whether Mohammed really did fly to heaven on his winged steed and then to Jerusalem. Dr. Abbas Shoman, the former Undersecretary of Al-Azhar, said that of course Allah can perform remarkable miracles. He went on to say that questioning the miracle of the Night Journey and Al-Miraj is not new, but it is something that the Jews have been doing to break the connection between the Mosque in Mecca and Al-Aqsa Mosque, by claiming that the Night Journey was not to Jerusalem. He then says that these Jews and other skeptics spread those lies to destroy Islam and he tells young Muslims to trust their scholars, and not to pay attention to those misleading cries under the pretext of freedom of opinion.

Well, for once, some of the claims about Jews are true. Sorry to say, we don't believe that Mohammed flew in one night from Mecca to Jerusalem. In fact, the Quran doesn't identify the location of the "farthest" mosque, and the Al Aqsa mosque (which means "farthest") was built decades after Mohammed died. There was no building of any sort on the Temple Mount while Mohammed was alive, except perhaps a small synagogue that the Jews are said to have built between 614 and 630 CE, while Mohammed's vision happened around 621. Some hadiths claim that Mohammed tethered his steed to a ring that was on the Temple, when there was no Temple.

But Jewish skepticism has nothing to do with wanting to destroy Islam. It's because the story is highly implausible. It's because it mirrors some legends of Jews who visited heaven (the non-canonical Book of Enoch, for one.) It's because there was no "furthest mosque" in Jerusalem at the time. And it is because the story is now being used to take away Jewish rights to the holiest spot in Judaism. 

(full article online)









						Egyptian newspaper upset that Jews don't believe story of Mohammed's "night journey"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

The “Zionist establishment raped Judaism” to provide its ideology “with a religious nature” to make up for the alleged lack of a Jewish historical connection to “Palestine,” according to Omar Hilmi Al-Ghoul, a regular columnist of the official PA daily.

Al-Ghoul wrote that Israel is “a rogue, fabricated, illegal, and illegitimate state” based on “myths,” “fables,” and a “false narrative,” and repeated the PA narrative that it was initiated by colonial powers to fulfill “a colonialist role.” He also referred to Israelis as “Khazar Jews” - another aspect of PA ideology, disseminating the false theory that all Ashkenazi Jews are descendants of a Khazar tribe.

Claiming that its leaders and the Zionist establishment believe Israel's continued existence depends on it “carrying out the plans that were defined for it,” Al-Ghoul alleged that Israel is realizing the “western colonial conspiracy” – led by the US – and implementing a “Hitleresque holocaust” against Palestinians and Arabs of the world:

-------
Palestinian Media Watch previously exposed an antisemitic column by the same writer in which he claimed that Israel was created to “establish a swamp for the savages who were massacred.”

As a fundamental component of its political ideology, the PA denies any Jewish historical ties to the land, claiming Israel is the fruit of a Western colonialist plot created to divide the Arab world and steal its resources.

_*The following is a longer excerpt of the column in the official PA daily:*

Excerpt of a column by Omar Hilmi Al-Ghoul, regular columnist for official PA daily and former advisor to former PA Prime Minister Salam Fayyad on national affairs_

(full article online)









						PA: Zionism raped Judaism, Israel is carrying out “Hitleresque holocaust” against the Palestinians and Arabs | PMW Analysis
					

Israel is “a rogue, fabricated, illegal, and illegitimate state,” based on “myths, fables and a false narrative” and “it has no historical basis or authority that provides it with sovereignty over the Palestinian land”




					palwatch.org


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## Sixties Fan

PA Chairman Abbas has stated that Christians and Muslims are united in “fighting” against the common “enemy” – i.e., Israel. He reiterated a common PA libel that Israel's goal is to “empty the land” of Christians and Muslims, and therefore they must join forces in getting rid of the Jews – because Christians and Muslims “have been the owners of this land since this land’s existence”:













(full article online)









						Abbas: “Christians and Muslims fight their enemy” – Israel, to rid the land of its Jews | PMW Analysis
					

Abbas: “We have been the owners of this land since this land’s existence… We will remain in this land forever, while the attackers [the Jews] have no place in Jerusalem and no place here”




					palwatch.org


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Jacobs made a few general, unremarkable statements about examples of anti-Semitism. One of her examples was “denying Jewish history.” And that’s obviously true.
> 
> But Jacobs, who fervently supports the Palestinian statehood cause, does not seem to have considered the implications of her statement with regard to the man who would become the head of the Palestinian state that she wants to see established in Judea and Samaria, and the Old City of Jerusalem.
> 
> I’m talking about the fact that Abbas is one of the most outspoken deniers of Jewish history in the world today. He has made so many statements denying Jewish history that they could fill a book—and, in fact, they have; he is the author of an entire book claiming that the Nazis killed only 1 million Jews and accusing Israel’s first prime minister, David Ben-Gurion, of collaborating with the Nazis. But for now, I’m going to cite just two of his speeches because they are particularly revealing.
> 
> On Jan. 14, 2018, Abbas addressed the Palestinian Central Council at P.A. headquarters in Ramallah. A few excerpts from his lie-filled tirade:
> 
> — “Israel … is a colonial project that has nothing to do with Judaism.”
> 
> — It was not the British White Paper or mass murder by the Nazis that kept Jews from going to Palestine, but rather, “the Jews did not want to emigrate, even with murder and slaughter.”
> 
> — Jews in Yemen and Iraq “didn’t want to come” to Israel, but Ben-Gurion forced them to by collaborating with Iraqi officials “to take away the citizenship of Jews and force them to emigrate.”
> 
> — When Theodor Herzl visited Palestine, he said: “We must wipe out the Palestinians from Palestine so that Palestine will be a land without a people for a people without a land.”
> 
> On April 20, 2018, Abbas addressed the legislature of the Palestine Liberation Organization, which he chairs. Here are a few of the slurs, lies and assorted absurdities that he mouthed:
> 
> — The Jews in Europe provoked the Holocaust because of their “social function” as money-lenders.
> 
> — Jews are to blame for communism because Josef Stalin was a secret Jew.
> 
> — Today’s Jews are not authentically Jewish, but are actually descendants of the Khazars, a medieval Turkish tribe, “which means they are not Semitic and have no relation to Semitism and have nothing to do with the prophets Abraham or Jacob.”
> 
> — There were never any pogroms in Arab countries, as proven by the fact “that there were Jews in Arab countries. Why wasn’t there ever one incident against Jews because they’re Jews? Not even once … in over 1,400 years.”
> 
> Abbas’s denials of Jewish history were so egregious that even some of Jacobs’s closest allies on the American Jewish left were compelled to condemn him. Americans for Peace Now charged that Abbas made “vile anti-Semitic statements.” J Street acknowledged that Abbas’s address “featured absurd anti-Semitic tropes and deeply offensive comments on the history of the Jewish people and Israel.”
> 
> Even The New York Times, despite its strong pro-Palestinian leanings, reported that Abbas’s remarks were “laced with deeply anti-Semitic tropes.” And Nickolay Mladenov, the U.N. special coordinator for the Middle East, said Abbas was “perpetuating conspiracy theories that fuel anti-Semitism.”
> 
> All of which creates a bit of a problem for Rabbi Jill Jacobs and her colleagues at T’ruah.
> 
> According to her own definition, the P.A. boss is an anti-Semite. Which means that she will now either drop her call for a Palestinian state—since, of course, it’s crazy to give a sovereign state to a rabid anti-Semite; or she will argue that even though Abbas is an anti-Semite, he should be given a sovereign state just a few miles from Israel’s major cities—which, of course, is crazy since it would mean putting millions of lives in direct danger.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish left leader accidentally calls Palestinian Authority chief an anti-Semite
> 
> 
> I hope she will confront the powerful implications of her own words.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jns.org


Can't you separate the myth from reality or are you promoting your victim narrative?


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## surada

Isra





Sixties Fan said:


>


Israel helped spawn Hamas as a foil against the PLO. Of course they regret it now. Back in 1980s the Christians and the Muslims opposed Hamas.


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


>


Sargon 2 settled four Arab tribes in Samaria around 700 BC


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## Sixties Fan

Writing for The Guardian on March 10, Peter Beinart makes an amateurish and fundamentally flawed attempt to rely on international law to make a comparison between “Putin’s aggression” and U.S. recognition of Israel’s “annexation” of the Golan Heights.

The gist of Beinart’s argument is that the U.S. recognition contributed to the “erosion of the norm against international aggression,” and thus it is somehow hypocritical for the U.S. to criticize Russia for invading Ukraine.

In making this argument, Beinart exposes complete disdain for and ignorance of not only history, but of the very legal concepts he seeks to rely on. He also displays his own inconsistent concern for respect of international law.

(full article online)









						Peter Beinart’s Fleeting Concern for Consistency Results in Historical and Legal Revisionism
					

Beinart exposes complete disdain for and ignorance of not only history, but of the very legal concepts he seeks to rely on. He also




					www.camera.org


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## Mindful

In the Torah portion _Beshalach_, which coincides yearly within a week of Tu B’Shvat, the Jewish people arrived in Marah and could not drink the bitter water (Exodus 15:23). God responded to Moses by showing him a tree and directed him to throw it into the water, which miraculously transformed the water and made it sweet. Why did God use a tree?
We are told that to the Jewish people, the situation seemed hopeless. There were a few million people in the desert without water. The one source of water they found was undrinkable. The natural reaction was despair. What hope was there for the future?


> When a situation looks hopeless and the future looks desolate and bleak, the tree symbolizes that the situation can turn around.


At that point, God showed them a tree. When a situation looks hopeless and the future looks desolate and bleak, the tree symbolizes that the situation can turn around. Spring will happen! The dried out trees will come back to life. There can and will be a renaissance and renewal.

Throwing the tree into the water was a message to the Jewish people, then and always, not to give up. Not to worry about the desert, not to despair over the future. To know then and always that “the salvation of God comes in the blink of an eye.”

The verse in Deuteronomy 20:19 compares a human being to a tree, _ki ha’adam etz hasadeh – man is like the tree of the field._ Just as there are four seasons for a tree, there are seasons in a person’s life. There are periods in a person’s life when the future looks bleak, and things look miserable all around. What will be?









						Tu B’Shvat’s Timely Message of Hope - aish.com
					

Why does Tu B’Shvat, the celebration of the New Year for the Trees, fall in the dead of winter?




					aish.com


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## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Museum has a collection of some 130,000 digitized photos and documents. A couple of them portray Jews, perhaps from the 1920s, praying at the Western Wall.

Here is how they describe the scene:




> Jewish Pilgrims Pray by al-Buraq Wall, Jerusalem the 1920s
> 
> Taken in the 1920s, this photograph shows Jewish pilgrims praying by the al-Buraq Wall; which  Zionists and Jews call the "Wailing Wall", located in the southern section of al-Aqsa Mosque near the al-Maghariba Gate. Although the wall is an Islamic endowment, the Jews have been trying since the end of the nineteenth century to control it, claiming that it is a remnant of the temple, but they failed. After the British Mandate in 1917, Jews began to gather in masses in an attempt to hold control over the Wall area, which led to the Buraq Uprising in 1929, which was basically a revolution to defend the Wall from Judaization, which resulted in the birth of an international commission of inquiry that issued in 1930 a decision stating that Muslims have the right to the Wall. But after the 1967 June War and the occupation of the eastern part of Jerusalem by the Israeli Occupation Forces, the Occupation Authority took control over the wall area and demolished the adjacent Mughrabi Quarter and worked to Judaize and completely change the features of the place.





> Source: The Zeyad Badee' Abdallah Collection




Nearly every sentence is a lie, starting with the description of Jews whose families had lived in Jerusalem for centuries as "Jewish pilgrims." 

Jews never called it the Wailing Wall - that was a Christian thing. 

The Jews never "failed" in identifying it as a retaining wall of the Temple. (The commission of inquiry mentioned said in no uncertain terms that "The Wailing Wall forms an integral part of the western exterior shell of the Harem-esh-Sherif which itself is the site of the ancient Jewish temples,at the present day supplanted by Moslem Mosques.")

 Jews gathered there way before the Balfour Declaration. 

The 1929 pogroms against Jews were pure antisemitism and had nothing to do with the Kotel except as an excuse - what did the massacres in Hebron have to do with the Wall? 

And of course Jerusalem was always Jewish, and had a Jewish majority a century before the Six Day War in 1967.

Even the source is bogus. This photo comes from the Matson Collection at the Library of Congress.

The International Council of Museums has a code of ethics that says, "Museums should ensure that the information they present in displays and exhibitions is well-founded, accurate and gives appropriate consideration to represented groups or beliefs."

This is only one egregious violation of that code.

The Palestine Museum is a propaganda museum.











						Palestinian Museum tries to erase Jewish history, denies the Temple
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

CAMERA Arabic’s protracted efforts have prompted Deutsche Welle to remove an Arabic-language backgrounder about Jerusalem which contained multiple factual errors concerning the holy city and the conflict surrounding it. Originally published in May 2021, the problematic item periodically reappeared alongside newer Deutsche Welle Arabic items despite CAMERA’s repeated requests for correction, the first of which was submitted to Germany’s public broadcaster last November. Most recently, the backgrounder was embedded in a DW Arabic webpage on Feb. 9, 2022.

The errors were as follows (all translations, emphases and in-bracket remarks are by CAMERA Arabic):

Slide No. 1 collectively identified Jews involved in the May 10, 2021 clashes in Jerusalem as “settlers,” referring to “clashes between Palestinians on the one hand and the police and settlers on the other.”

However, the Jews’ places of residence were not known — and thus their status as “settlers” was undetermined — and not relevant to the story. Media outlets which previously corrected identical or similar Arabic errors in 2021 include CNN and BBC.

Slide No. 6 misrepresented Jerusalem’s holy sites, their history and location, stating: “The Jews believe that the al-Aqsa Mosque was built instead of a Jewish shrine (the Temple) which the Romans destroyed in 70 AD, with no remnant left but the Western Wall, [also] known as the Wailing Wall or al-Buraq.”

However, Jews don’t just “believe” that the Temple once stood where Jerusalem’s Noble Sanctuary/Temple Mount is found today; its presence up until its 70 AD destruction is a well documented fact of ancient history and archaeology.

In addition, the al-Aqsa Mosque is adjacent to the southern wall of the compound, whilst the Temple was located at its very center where the Dome of the Rock is found today. Therefore, the Mosque was not “built instead” of the Temple, as the backgrounder indicated.

Furthermore, the Western Wall was not a part of the Temple itself; it was a retaining wall for the plaza on which the Temple stood.

Moreover, the Western Wall is not the last remaining part of the old Temple complex. In fact, there are many extant remains from the complex including the southern, eastern and northern retaining walls. Extant features abutting the southern wall include a broad stairway leading up to the Temple Mount’s entrance and two gates, known as Huldah Gates, which provided access to the Temple Mount. Some of the interior part of the Herodian Double Gate (which is one of the Huldah Gates) is also still intact. In addition, an area called “Robinson’s Arch,” in the south-western corner of the Temple complex, still remains. _The New York Times_ recently corrected the latter two points.

(full article online)









						Deutsche Welle Arabic Removes Error-Laden Jerusalem Backgrounder
					

Following protracted communication from CAMERA Arabic, and in the wake of important steps to address anti-Jewish and anti-Israel bias at the network, Deutsche Welle




					www.camera.org


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## Sixties Fan

“Finally,” Cox writes, Nixon “told his Defense Secretary, James R. Schlesinger, to ‘send everything that can fly’ with materiel to support Israel. This time, the bureaucracy got the message and one of the largest airlifts in history began in earnest.”

The key word in that paragraph is “finally.” If Nixon had really wanted that airlift to proceed on day one instead of day 10, then it would have happened.

And if Biden wants to airlift weapons to Ukraine, you can bet it will happen—no thanks to the attempt by Nixon’s grandson to rewrite history in order to whitewash his grandfather’s reputation.

(full article online)

https://worldisraelnews.com/nixons-grandson-rewrites-israels-history/?utm_source=newsletters_worldisraelnews_com&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Nixon’s+Grandson+Rewrites+Israel’s+History%3B+Netanyahu%3A+‘Absurd’+to+Continue+Nuclear+Talks+After+Iranian+Missile+Attack%3B+Zelensky%27s+%27Surprise+Offer%27+to+Russian+Soldiers&utm_campaign=20220315_m167002297_Nixon’s+Grandson+Rewrites+Israel’s+History%3B+Netanyahu%3A+‘Absurd’+to+Continue+Nuclear+Talks+After+Iranian+Missile+Attack%3B+Zelensky%27s+%27Surprise+Offer%27+to+Russian+Soldiers&utm_term=_0D_0A_09_09_09_09_09_09_09_09_09_09Read+Now_0D_0A_09_09_09_09_09_09_09_09_09


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## Mindful

By 1949, such Jewish ethnic activities were considered “cosmopolitan” by the Soviets, and Beregovsky was shipped off to Siberia, where he joined other slave laborers in building a railroad. Already a grandfather, he found some solace in leading the prison camp’s choir, and the film includes snippets of letters he wrote home to his wife Sara in Kyiv, asking her to send – what else – sheet music.

Beregovsky was able to return to Kyiv after the death of Stalin, where, before cancer would kill him in 1961, he was able to arrange his private archive.

What was preserved? What was lost? And what might still be lost as the current war grinds on? Much of the film was shot in Ukraine in 2019 and 2020, with the camera lingering on Kyiv’s pastel-colored academic buildings, the lazy Dnipro River and the waving wheat in the country’s bread basket. You recall this is a “pre-war” Ukraine, and then realize you are thinking back about three and half weeks.

Jews have a complicated history with Ukraine. (How complicated? The filmmakers acknowledge the “generous support” of Roman Abramovich, the Russian Jewish oligarch who is being hit with a slew of international sanctions thanks to his close ties with Vladimir Putin.) Perhaps one and a half million Jews were killed there. They were the victims of the Nazis, but also of the Germans’ local collaborators. Once home to the second largest Jewish population in Europe, and still a place where over 40,000 Jews live, the country can also be seen as a vast Jewish graveyard. And yet its Jewish culture was as central to the country’s identity and self-understanding as it was to the Jews’, as scholars in the film explain.









						The Ukrainian Jew who saved Yiddish music from oblivion - Jewish Telegraphic Agency
					

Moyshe Beregovsky collected music from a people about to disappear.




					www.jta.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Writing for The Guardian on March 10, Peter Beinart makes an amateurish and fundamentally flawed attempt to rely on international law to make a comparison between “Putin’s aggression” and U.S. recognition of Israel’s “annexation” of the Golan Heights.
> 
> The gist of Beinart’s argument is that the U.S. recognition contributed to the “erosion of the norm against international aggression,” and thus it is somehow hypocritical for the U.S. to criticize Russia for invading Ukraine.
> 
> In making this argument, Beinart exposes complete disdain for and ignorance of not only history, but of the very legal concepts he seeks to rely on. He also displays his own inconsistent concern for respect of international law.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peter Beinart’s Fleeting Concern for Consistency Results in Historical and Legal Revisionism
> 
> 
> Beinart exposes complete disdain for and ignorance of not only history, but of the very legal concepts he seeks to rely on. He also
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.camera.org


It's against the law to colonize occupied land.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> It's against the law to colonize occupied land.



Obviously. Darn Muslim occupiers.


----------



## surada

The 





Sixties Fan said:


> CAMERA Arabic’s protracted efforts have prompted Deutsche Welle to remove an Arabic-language backgrounder about Jerusalem which contained multiple factual errors concerning the holy city and the conflict surrounding it. Originally published in May 2021, the problematic item periodically reappeared alongside newer Deutsche Welle Arabic items despite CAMERA’s repeated requests for correction, the first of which was submitted to Germany’s public broadcaster last November. Most recently, the backgrounder was embedded in a DW Arabic webpage on Feb. 9, 2022.
> 
> The errors were as follows (all translations, emphases and in-bracket remarks are by CAMERA Arabic):
> 
> Slide No. 1 collectively identified Jews involved in the May 10, 2021 clashes in Jerusalem as “settlers,” referring to “clashes between Palestinians on the one hand and the police and settlers on the other.”
> 
> However, the Jews’ places of residence were not known — and thus their status as “settlers” was undetermined — and not relevant to the story. Media outlets which previously corrected identical or similar Arabic errors in 2021 include CNN and BBC.
> 
> Slide No. 6 misrepresented Jerusalem’s holy sites, their history and location, stating: “The Jews believe that the al-Aqsa Mosque was built instead of a Jewish shrine (the Temple) which the Romans destroyed in 70 AD, with no remnant left but the Western Wall, [also] known as the Wailing Wall or al-Buraq.”
> 
> However, Jews don’t just “believe” that the Temple once stood where Jerusalem’s Noble Sanctuary/Temple Mount is found today; its presence up until its 70 AD destruction is a well documented fact of ancient history and archaeology.
> 
> In addition, the al-Aqsa Mosque is adjacent to the southern wall of the compound, whilst the Temple was located at its very center where the Dome of the Rock is found today. Therefore, the Mosque was not “built instead” of the Temple, as the backgrounder indicated.
> 
> Furthermore, the Western Wall was not a part of the Temple itself; it was a retaining wall for the plaza on which the Temple stood.
> 
> Moreover, the Western Wall is not the last remaining part of the old Temple complex. In fact, there are many extant remains from the complex including the southern, eastern and northern retaining walls. Extant features abutting the southern wall include a broad stairway leading up to the Temple Mount’s entrance and two gates, known as Huldah Gates, which provided access to the Temple Mount. Some of the interior part of the Herodian Double Gate (which is one of the Huldah Gates) is also still intact. In addition, an area called “Robinson’s Arch,” in the south-western corner of the Temple complex, still remains. _The New York Times_ recently corrected the latter two points.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deutsche Welle Arabic Removes Error-Laden Jerusalem Backgrounder
> 
> 
> Following protracted communication from CAMERA Arabic, and in the wake of important steps to address anti-Jewish and anti-Israel bias at the network, Deutsche Welle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.camera.org


The western wall is what remains of fortress Antonia. Jews didn't worship there until they were expelled from Spain.


----------



## surada

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Obviously. Darn Muslim occupiers.


Arabs have been in Palestine and the Levant since the Akkadian empire.


----------



## Mindful

surada said:


> Arabs have been in Palestine and the Levant since the Akkadian empire.



Arabs or Palestinians?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> Arabs have been in Palestine and the Levant since the Akkadian empire.



I know, now we need to boot the muslim occupiers.


----------



## surada

Toddsterpatriot said:


> I know, now we need to boot the muslim occupiers.


The Akkadians originated in Arabia and we're in Palestine and the Levant and Syria long before Judaism.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Akkadians originated in Arabia and we're in Palestine and the Levant and Syria long before Judaism.


And where are the Akkadians now?  Did they become Jewish?  Any archeological proof that they were in Judea, and anything to do with any of the invaders of the land, like:
Philistines
Greek
Romans
Byzantine
Muslims, Kurdish and Arab
Crusaders
Ottomans
British


Not in my lifetime will SUrada show any proof of anything she alleges on any thread


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The
> The western wall is what remains of fortress Antonia. Jews didn't worship there until they were expelled from Spain.


Show us your archeological proof of it.

And your evidence that it only started with Jews of Spain is?









						When men and women prayed together at the Western Wall
					

A brief history of Jewish worship at Judaism's holiest place of prayer, where, until it came under Israeli jurisdiction, a mixing of genders was the norm




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Show us your archeological proof of it.
> 
> And your evidence that it only started with Jews of Spain is?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When men and women prayed together at the Western Wall
> 
> 
> A brief history of Jewish worship at Judaism's holiest place of prayer, where, until it came under Israeli jurisdiction, a mixing of genders was the norm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com


Look it up. Herod built the fortress Antonia in honor of his friend's daughter Antonia. That was Mark Anthony .


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> The Palestinian Museum has a collection of some 130,000 digitized photos and documents. A couple of them portray Jews, perhaps from the 1920s, praying at the Western Wall.
> 
> Here is how they describe the scene:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nearly every sentence is a lie, starting with the description of Jews whose families had lived in Jerusalem for centuries as "Jewish pilgrims."
> 
> Jews never called it the Wailing Wall - that was a Christian thing.
> 
> The Jews never "failed" in identifying it as a retaining wall of the Temple. (The commission of inquiry mentioned said in no uncertain terms that "The Wailing Wall forms an integral part of the western exterior shell of the Harem-esh-Sherif which itself is the site of the ancient Jewish temples,at the present day supplanted by Moslem Mosques.")
> 
> Jews gathered there way before the Balfour Declaration.
> 
> The 1929 pogroms against Jews were pure antisemitism and had nothing to do with the Kotel except as an excuse - what did the massacres in Hebron have to do with the Wall?
> 
> And of course Jerusalem was always Jewish, and had a Jewish majority a century before the Six Day War in 1967.
> 
> Even the source is bogus. This photo comes from the Matson Collection at the Library of Congress.
> 
> The International Council of Museums has a code of ethics that says, "Museums should ensure that the information they present in displays and exhibitions is well-founded, accurate and gives appropriate consideration to represented groups or beliefs."
> 
> This is only one egregious violation of that code.
> 
> The Palestine Museum is a propaganda museum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Museum tries to erase Jewish history, denies the Temple
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com


The source of all those  photos was Al masrig 1890.


----------



## surada

Popular Archeology - Antonia: The Fortress Jerusalem Forgot
					

A controversial theory challenges long-held tradition and scholarship on the Fortress of Antonia, with game-changing implications for the location of the Jerusalem temple of biblical times.




					popular-archaeology.com
				





Sixties Fan said:


> And where are the Akkadians now?  Did they become Jewish?  Any archeological proof that they were in Judea, and anything to do with any of the invaders of the land, like:
> Philistines
> Greek
> Romans
> Byzantine
> Muslims, Kurdish and Arab
> Crusaders
> Ottomans
> British
> 
> 
> Not in my lifetime will SUrada show any proof of anything she alleges on any thread


My God. Sargon was Akkadian. Their empire included Palestine. Look at a map.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> Popular Archeology - Antonia: The Fortress Jerusalem Forgot
> 
> 
> A controversial theory challenges long-held tradition and scholarship on the Fortress of Antonia, with game-changing implications for the location of the Jerusalem temple of biblical times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> popular-archaeology.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My God. Sargon was Akkadian. Their empire included Palestine. Look at a map.



Yet the earliest historic record of Arabs is outside the region,
and only 5 centuries after the earliest mention of Israelites is in the Levant.


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> And the earliest historic record of Arabs is outside the region,
> is only 5 centuries after the earliest mention of Israelites is in the Levant.





			Google Image Result for https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cd/f6/2f/cdf62f5f075e6ce9c7f1368fcef5e446.jpg
		

.    See the map of the Akkadian empire. They came from Arabia.


----------



## rylah

What Arab supremacists
try to overcompensate for,
with their historic revisionism...


----------



## surada

__





						Redirect Notice
					





					www.google.com


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> Why do Arab supremacists feel the need to
> overcompensate with such pathetic historic revisionism...?


The top photo was taken in 1890. There were very few Jews in Palestine.
 The majority were Muslims and Christians.


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> T-rex as well was an Arab...
> 
> Why do Arab supremacists feel the need to
> overcompensate with such pathetic historic revisionism...?


Look at the map of the Akkadian empire. You may have Arab ancestors.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Look it up. Herod built the fortress Antonia in honor of his friend's daughter Antonia. That was Mark Anthony .


What is your point?  Jews were not allowed to weep and pray at that wall, as it was all that remained?

What is your point?  Jews have no rights?  Is that the point?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The source of all those  photos was Al masrig 1890.


Your point is?


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> The top photo was taken in 1890. There were very few Jews in Palestine.
> The majority were Muslims and Christians.



Interesting argument...

Like the US majority today?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The top photo was taken in 1890. There were very few Jews in Palestine.
> The majority were Muslims and Christians.


Does it make it less the Ancient homeland of the Jewish People?
Arabs and Muslims never had a problem with acknowledging that it was the Jewish homeland before 1948.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> The Akkadians originated in Arabia and we're in Palestine and the Levant and Syria long before Judaism.



I know, the Muslims have to go.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Look at the map of the Akkadian empire. You may have Arab ancestors.


What is your point?  If very few Arabs converted to Judaism at any time, it does not take away from the Indigenous people who DID BECOME the Jewish People, including descendants of the Hebrew People.

And all you do is allegations, and never show any proof of your allegations.

What if , What if, what if.....


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Popular Archeology - Antonia: The Fortress Jerusalem Forgot
> 
> 
> A controversial theory challenges long-held tradition and scholarship on the Fortress of Antonia, with game-changing implications for the location of the Jerusalem temple of biblical times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> popular-archaeology.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My God. Sargon was Akkadian. Their empire included Palestine. Look at a map.


So WHATTTTT ?????


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Google Image Result for https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cd/f6/2f/cdf62f5f075e6ce9c7f1368fcef5e446.jpg
> 
> 
> .    See the map of the Akkadian empire. They came from Arabia.


Is any Akkadian paying you to spread these allegations?   Where are they?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Does it make it less the Ancient homeland of the Jewish People?
> Arabs and Muslims never had a problem with acknowledging that it was the Jewish homeland before 1948.


Point is that other people also lived there. Even Ben Gurion said the Palestinians were descendants of Jewish farmers.        Google Image Result for https://dinromerohistory.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/666-a.gif.   





Sixties Fan said:


> What is your point?  If very few Arabs converted to Judaism at any time, it does not take away from the Indigenous people who DID BECOME the Jewish People, including descendants of the Hebrew People.
> 
> And all you do is allegations, and never show any proof of your allegations.
> 
> What if , What if, what if.....


See the map of the Akkadian empire.     Google Image Result for https://dinromerohistory.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/666-a.gif


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Is any Akkadian paying you to spread these allegations?   Where are they?


Don't they teach you any history in Israel?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Point is that other people also lived there. Even Ben Gurion said the Palestinians were descendants of Jewish farmers.        Google Image Result for https://dinromerohistory.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/666-a.gif.
> See the map of the Akkadian empire.     Google Image Result for https://dinromerohistory.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/666-a.gif


Ben Gurion said no such thing.  It has been debunked.  Stop lying.

The point is, that your maps mean nothing when NO invaders mention the Akkadians.  They have no importance in the history of the area.  And definitely ZERO in the history of the Jewish People and Ancient Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Don't they teach you any history in Israel?


Do you have evidence or are you going to keep on giving us empty information and questions?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Do you have evidence or are you going to keep on giving us empty information and questions?


I've posted 3 links. Can't you READ?


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> Don't they teach you any history in Israel?



The Jewish history you're desperately trying to deny,
or the Arab supremacist account of an Arab T-rex?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> I've posted 3 links. Can't you READ?


Maps are not proof.


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> What Arab supremacists
> try to overcompensate for,
> with their historic revisionism...





surada said:


> The top photo was taken in 1890. There were very few Jews in Palestine.
> The majority were Muslims and Christians.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> Popular Archeology - Antonia: The Fortress Jerusalem Forgot
> 
> 
> A controversial theory challenges long-held tradition and scholarship on the Fortress of Antonia, with game-changing implications for the location of the Jerusalem temple of biblical times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> popular-archaeology.com





Sixties Fan said:


> Does it make it less the Ancient homeland of the Jewish People?
> Arabs and Muslims never had a problem with acknowledging that it was the Jewish homeland before 1948.



The more they try to deny it,
the less confident they appear
to pretend about "owner hospitality"...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Part 1

A few days ago, I received a message about a video on a history channel that mentioned ‘Palestine’ in a history of Ancient Egypt. I do love a good fairytale, so soon sat myself down to watch it. I have to say, that of all the absurdly inappropriate references to ‘Palestine’ that I have seen, this is one of the most ludicrous. Seeing ‘ancient Palestine’ placed into the history of Egypt over 3000 years ago, makes this one of the most ahistorical documentary series on record.

The documentary with ancient Palestine​In 2016, Prof. Joann Fletcher, an Honorary Research Fellow at the University of York, presented a four-part series titled ‘Immortal Egypt’. It was produced by Lion Television and originally aired on BBC2. The media watchdog CAMERA did reference a single remark about Palestine that Prof. Fletcher had made in the introduction. I do not think anyone ever addressed the actual content of the documentary.

The four-part series was later uploaded by the ‘History Hit Network‘ on their YouTube channel ‘Timeline – World History Documentaries‘. They have 3.87 million subscribers. It is the most successful series the channel has uploaded:


E1 – 6.9 million views
E2 – 9.5 million views.
E3 – 5.9 million views
E4 – 4.3 million views.
Mention of ‘Palestine’ litters the show, but the episode I want to reference is Episode 2, which has been seen 9.5 million times. That means millions of people were led astray and given a totally bogus version of history.

The ahistorical History Channel​I am no expert on Egypt, so cannot comment on the quality of the other information contained therein, but it is when the history touches on conflicts to Egypt’s north, that I know the narration takes the listener into a nonsensical fantasy land.

These quotes are taken from the narration, and I want to draw attention to three timestamps:


49:15 “the north eastern border with Palestine” (map shown) was also fortified with such defences.
51:06. Because these Armu of Palestinian origin eventually became the Hyksos and they ruled Egypt.
56:05 “they were eventually able to push the Hyksos out of Egypt all the way back to Palestine (map shown).”
There is actually a map shown in the ‘history’ video. Remember this video has had almost 10 million views. The invention of ancient Palestine:





Ancient ‘Palestine’ on a map of ancient Egypt circa 2000bc is the biggest load of ahistorical poppycock you are ever likely to see. They may as well put a picture of Neil Armstrong stepping foot on the moon in the same image. What on earth were these people thinking?

I sent an email to Prof. Joann Fletcher at York asking her why she uses the misleading and ahistorical term ‘Palestine’, I received a reply from another respected expert and academic from the university. His emails have been thoughtful, detailed and respectful. I have asked if I can publish the exchange, but as yet have not received permission. His key point and one I accept, is that Prof Fletcher is following established academic tradition. That this label is a current academic norm. That’s doesn’t make it right.










						BBC, the revision of history and the invention of Ancient Palestine
					

Ancient Palestine existed 3000 years ago - that's according to a BBC2 historical documentary that has been seen almost 10 million times.




					david-collier.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Part 2

Where the Jews get it wrong​It must be said that the blame for this all-too-common falsification of history does not really lie with the Soviets in post-1948, nor with Arafat in 1964. These are errant messages that I see far too often on Zionist platforms. Believe me, that if western society viewed the historical rights of the Jewish people with the import that they deserve, the rantings of the Soviets and the PLO would never have seen the light of day.

Rather, Soviet anti-Zionist propagandists and people like Yasser Arafat saw anti-Jewish sentiment in the west and took a successful piggyback ride upon it. The weakness was in classic Christian antisemitism – ”supersessionism’ – or ‘replacement ideology’. The idea that the ‘new’ testament (the Christians) has replaced (superseded) the ‘old’ (the Jews). This is the true root of the whole notion of ‘Palestine’ in modern western thought.

It cannot be overstated how much of the modern ‘Palestinian’ is a colonial construct. Between 1917 and 1922, the borders of the Palestine mandate were drawn. The name itself was chosen because it was the ‘Holy Land’. Those borders were dictated by colonial powers. A Lebanese man today in Tyre, is Lebanese only because the British and French agreed Tyre would be outside the Palestine Mandate. A Gazan is Palestinian only because the British eventually decided that the southern Negev towns should be cut off from Egypt.

Modern Palestine was a colonial construct in its entirety – an area based around the historical land of the Jewish people, within which to recreate the Jewish homeland. Every identity attached to this land today *apart from* the Jewish identity is a heritage of British colonial rule.

The nonsensical myth of ancient Palestine​Which brings us to the name ‘Palestine’. We know that the Romans renamed Judea as Syria-Palestina circa 135AD. We also know that as the name ‘Palestine’ became ever more politicised in the 21st century, anti-Israel activists pored through every historical document possible to prove the name ‘Palestine’ had historical weight – that it was more than a short-lived example of Imperial arrogance and spite. So desperate have they been that the Wikipedia article on the subject tries to squeeze the ‘Philistines’ into the story. The Philistines (Paleshet) were biblical enemies of the Israelites – invaders from Crete, who were eventually lost to war and history, hundreds of years before the birth of Jesus.

If you are a pro-Palestinian today and you are somehow trying to squeeze Palestinian history into that of the Philistines, you probably believe that Narnia is a real place too. Which pretty much sums up the intellectual level of the average Wikipedia believer.

A word of Imperial conquest is born​The idea that this was invented by the Romans after the fall of Jerusalem is also a myth – the Greeks had already began to use the term before this. The Greeks and Romans, both Imperial invaders, saw the land differently from the way that the indigenous populations saw it – as foreign conquering invaders tend to – and it is in their writings, that the first mentions of an area called ‘Palestina’ appear.

The ‘Palestina’ is probably little more than European mistranslation. Herodotus taking time to describe it in about 450bc, appears to have placed it chiefly along the coast – which would correlate with the ‘Philistines’, who by then had already left history. He was from Greece (now the southern coast of Turkey), they were from Crete – who knows, maybe there is a political affiliation and message long lost to us in what he was trying to say.

It is this handed-down errant language of imperial conquest that eventually gave rise to the official and spiteful title ‘Syria Palæstina’ around the time of the Bar Kochva revolt.

Historically, ‘Palestine’ was never more than a badly translated word used by European Imperial powers squashing the rights of the indigenous people. Taking place in a land that was soon to be invaded, conquered, and colonised by the Arab Islamic empire. And that would have been that, had it not been for the rise of Christianity and its battles with both the Jews and the Islamic world.










						BBC, the revision of history and the invention of Ancient Palestine
					

Ancient Palestine existed 3000 years ago - that's according to a BBC2 historical documentary that has been seen almost 10 million times.




					david-collier.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Part 3

The Christian ‘Palestine’​Following the Islamic conquest, the Muslims never used the term ‘Palestine’. The very fact that neither the Jews, nor the Muslims ever recognised the term ‘Palestine’ before the 20th century, tells you all you need to know. This word survived in Christian replacement terminology. It basically became just another way of saying ‘this is our Holy land, not your Holy Land‘ as they ran their swords through the lives of ‘the natives’ during the Crusades. And for this reason – and this reason alone, the term survived through the European empires, to be officially resurrected when the British needed a name for their mandate.

All of the references to the resurrection of ‘Palestine’ are based in Christian supremacist and supersessionist thinking, and the evidence is easy to find. In 1805 the Palestine Association was founded to promote the study of ‘Palestine’. It was founded by William Richard Hamilton. He was the son of the Archdeacon of Colchester. The better known ‘Palestine Exploration Fund’ was founded in 1865. Its key founders were people like Arthur Penrhyn Stanley, an Anglican Priest.

And this supremacist antisemitic strain kept ‘Palestine’ alive through the crusades, all the way to 19th century England. When the MP Alexander Beresford Hope, an ardent supporter of the Anglican Church, stood up to oppose the emancipation of the Jews in a parliamentary debate in 1848, this is what he said:



> “Every Sabbath-day they prayed for their restoration to the land of their fathers; and the sentiment that formed the common bond of union between the Jews of England, America, and Sweden, was, that they were the rightful territorial possessors of the soil of Palestine. The seven words of the declaration which it was proposed to repeal, were something worth fighting for. They might not have, indeed, the strength of a shadow to save a lost soul; but they were at all events better than a negation of belief, and he should object to any concession to the Jews of our present vantage ground, small as it might be.”


Palestine was part of his religious war, as it was for much of Christian Europe. This is further complicated by the mixing of religion into all walks of life – including academia. So when George Rawlinson wrote his ‘History of Ancient Egypt’, in 1881, he mentions ‘Palestine’ many times:



> “The invaders may have been Syrians, in a large sense of that word, and may have come from Palestine, or even from the region north of it” (pp190)


Rawlinson’s use of Palestine while describing Egypt circa 1600BC is evidence of how this word survived. Because George Rawlinson was not just a British scholar and historian, he was a Christian theologian. As were most academics and writers back then. This was responsible for installing a Christian supremacist, colonial, and ultimately, antisemitic revisionist narrative – based in replacement ideology – at the heart of academic subjects, such as history and geography. Academia is about new scholars standing on the shoulders of giants. When it comes to ‘Palestine’, they’ve been standing on the shoulders of antisemites.

Which is why when Prof. Joann Fletcher produced a four-part series on ‘Ancient Egypt’, she can create ‘ancient Palestine’ without blinking. When she reads my email questioning her, she will probably think to herself ‘but this is what the area is called’. Except this is not true. It is only true here, remnants of a colonial ‘us and them’ mindset based on Christian supremacist thought.










						BBC, the revision of history and the invention of Ancient Palestine
					

Ancient Palestine existed 3000 years ago - that's according to a BBC2 historical documentary that has been seen almost 10 million times.




					david-collier.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Part 4​​Jews don’t count​There is something ironic about the western need to hold on to the artificial Christian Palestine. It is also the height of hypocrisy. Because the stronghold sits primarily on the left – with the Quakers, the Methodists, and throughout the Christian world of NGOs. It is promoted inside movements that preach about anti-racism, shudder at the thought of cultural appropriation, spin stories about the need for decolonisation and help tear down the statues of the slave traders.

They stand strong on each point and push these ‘progressive’ values, deconstructing their oppressive, colonial history in every area – except one – Palestine. Because on that issue, they are religiously stuck. Of all the progressive issues – only the rights of the Jews do not count. Progressive cries about tearing down the statues of slave traders are followed by the more traditional refrains that ‘the Jews betrayed god. Palestine is our Holy Land. Long live ancient Palestine!’

This is why each Christmas the Palestinian propagandists play large on the Christmas tale just as they squeeze every last Christian Arab out of Bethlehem. They are piggybacking on an ancient Christian hatred. And in turn explains why so many Church groups, despite the oppression of Christians by the Palestinian Islamists, are so quick to join anti-Israel boycott movements.

And it is important to remember this when you see it. This is not about Soviet propaganda or PLO revisionism. Those are incidental allies. This is the real big bad, it is the root of western hostility to Israel, and it is why it is so unmoveable. It is Christian revisionism – an ideology that wants to wipe the Jews out and spent centuries literally trying to make it happen. It may be an unfortunate coincidence that Prof. Joann Fletcher is based in York, the site of a massacre of the Jews in 1190 which carried the seeds of the total expulsion of Jews from England a century later – but it is still a highly symbolic one.

This anti-Jewish, Christian revisionism has no place in modern society. It has no place in academia. It certainly has no place on the BBC, where they periodically dress up their promotion of Christian replacement ideology in historical documentaries, or as a caring human rights case for the modern Palestinian cause. It is time we draw a line under this, call it out for what it is, and make sure that we never see this type of ahistorical offensive stunt ever again.

​









						BBC, the revision of history and the invention of Ancient Palestine
					

Ancient Palestine existed 3000 years ago - that's according to a BBC2 historical documentary that has been seen almost 10 million times.




					david-collier.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

(When Palestine and being Palestinian meant being Jewish and Freeing future Israel )

















						The Jewish "Palestine Resistance"
					

When, in 1946, the term " Palestine Resistance " meant the Jewish fight for freedom and liberation from the repressive British mandatory reg...




					myrightword.blogspot.com


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> The Jewish history you're desperately trying to deny,
> or the Arab supremacist account of an Arab T-rex?


There is no Arab T Rex. Are you trying to be cute?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> (When Palestine and being Palestinian meant being Jewish and Freeing future Israel )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish "Palestine Resistance"
> 
> 
> When, in 1946, the term " Palestine Resistance " meant the Jewish fight for freedom and liberation from the repressive British mandatory reg...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> myrightword.blogspot.com


They had already killed 500 British peacekeepers by then.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> They had already killed 500 British peacekeepers by then.


Why couldn't the peacekeepers keep the Arabs from attacking the Jews in 1921, Hebron in 1929, 1936 to 1939.

How about those peacekeepers in Iraq?  Why didn't they stop the Fharud in 1941.  Two days of Arab Iraqis attacking unarmed Jews because Al Husseini wanted to kill Jews?

Where were they?  Ask them?  Give me an answer when you get one.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> They had already killed 500 British peacekeepers by then.


By "they" you mean the Jews killed all of those 500 British peacekeepers? None of them died by Arab weapons or means?

 There were no British peacekeepers, there were only British soldiers, which is definitely different from the UN peacekeepers.
-------------------

The first UN peacekeeping mission was established in May 1948, when the UN Security Council authorized the deployment of a small number of UN military observers to the Middle East to form the United Nations Truce Supervision Organization (UNTSO) to monitor the Armistice Agreement between Israel and its Arab neighbours.









						UN Peacekeeping: 70 Years of Service & Sacrifice
					

The first UN peacekeeping mission was established in May 1948, when the UN Security Council authorized the deployment of a small number of UN military observers to the Middle East to form the United Nations Truce Supervision Organization (UNTSO) to monitor the Armistice Agreement between Israel...




					peacekeeping.un.org
				



----------------

How many British soldiers died in Israel?


But *around 800* British soldiers died during the Jewish insurgency against British rule in Mandatory Palestine between 1945 and 1948. More than 100 more policemen lost their lives. Some died from disease or accident, but many died at the hands of militant groups.

--------------
In other words, first the British got the Mandate to recreate, rebuild the Jewish Nation on their Ancient homeland.

Then, the British chose to give 78%o of the Mandate to foreign Arabs.

Then, the British had no problems when the Hashemite Clan ethnically cleansed all of TransJordan of all of the Jews living there.

Then the British continuously failed to protect the Jews from Arab riots in Palestine and in Iraq.

Then, the British stopped most of the Jewish immigration agreed to.

Then the British raided Jewish places to take away any weapons which would have protected any Jews from Arab attacks.

Then, the British ethnically cleansed Gaza of Jews in 1920.

Then, the British ethnically cleansed Hebron of Jews in 1929.

Then, the British helped the Hashemite to fight against Israel after it declared its Independence.

Then, the British had no problems when Egypt took Gaza and Jordan took the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria.

------------
The only problem you always have is that Jews fought the British back in order to free their land so that they could have their Independent State, as the British had every intention to keep the other 22% of the Mandate for Palestine for themselves.


----------



## Sixties Fan

He claims that “For 15 years, successive Israeli governments have refused to even discuss a two-state solution,” but conveniently neglects that prior to his arbitrary cutoff date, in 2000, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered the Palestinian Authority nearly the entirety of their official requests, only to be answered with a violent uprising. Since then, Israeli governments have continued negotiations with the Palestinian leadership, but have understandably been skeptical of the Palestinian commitment to peace, given the ongoing anti-Israel incitement which infests Palestinian civil society.

Allen also claims that “Over 650,000 Israeli settlers illegally occupy Palestinian land,” but the Jews who live in their ancient homeland of Jerusalem, Judea & Samaria are hardly illegal occupiers, either from the perspective of history or well established international law. 

Most bizarrely, he argues it is untrue that “Israel-directed UN General Assembly resolutions represent 70 percent of the total.” Tragically, it is true; in 2021, the United Nations General Assembly passed 18 country-specific resolutions, of which 14 targeted Israel.

(full article online)









						HRC Rebuts Misinformation By Canada’s Former Ambassador to Israel, Jon Allen, In The Toronto Star
					

In a March 17 letter (Observations on opposition to Israeli government policy and antisemitism), writer Jon Allen, Canada’s former ambassador




					honestreporting.ca


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Why couldn't the peacekeepers keep the Arabs from attacking the Jews in 1921, Hebron in 1929, 1936 to 1939.
> 
> How about those peacekeepers in Iraq?  Why didn't they stop the Fharud in 1941.  Two days of Arab Iraqis attacking unarmed Jews because Al Husseini wanted to kill Jews?
> 
> Where were they?  Ask them?  Give me an answer when you get one.


Read about 1920. They pulled off some false flag operations. Remember when they blew up the immigrant ship?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Read about 1920. They pulled off some false flag operations. Remember when they blew up the immigrant ship?


Give a link


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Give a link











						The Patria Disaster: Forgotten Zionist Mass Tragedy
					

..




					www.anumuseum.org.il


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07.     Written in 1920


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Read about 1920. They pulled off some false flag operations. Remember when they blew up the immigrant ship?


You posted that Jews killed Peacekeepers.  There were no UN peacekeepers until after the armistice in 1949

Now you give the date 1920.  The article gives 1940.

You keep trying to find any excuse to the disgusting British behavior which was predominantly pro Arab and against the Jewish rights to rebuild their Nation ON their ancient homeland.

You are again attempting to rewrite history, where the British and the Arabs are not responsible for what happened to the Patria.

How many Jews were sent back to Europe by the British and ended up dead in concentration camps.

How many of them were sent to a camp in Greece as prisoners, until the end of the Mandate?

Talk about the Patria.

Tell me about the Exodus.

Tell me about all the Ships full of Jews returned to Europe to be killed by the Nazis.

What else do you have to try to turn Zionists into  bad people?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07.     Written in 1920


Do insult me with something written by a Jew hater.

Move on.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Sixties Fan Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07.     Written in 1920







__





						Prophesying Palestine
					

Jeffrey Goldberg looks back at a mixed bag of Atlantic predictions from the 1920s and '30s about prospects for a Jewish homeland.




					www.theatlantic.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

From Associates for Biblical Research:




> Associates for Biblical Research (ABR) announce the discovery of a formulaic curse inscription recovered on a small, folded lead tablet.
> 
> The defixio came to light in December 2019 when Scott Stripling, ABR’s Director of Excavations and the Director of the Archaeological Studies Institute at The Bible Seminary in Katy, Texas, led an ABR team to wet sift the discarded material from Adam Zertal’s excavations (1982–1989) on Mt. Ebal.
> 
> A press conference was held on Thursday, March 24th at the Lanier Theological Library in Houston, Texas to announce the extraordinary discovery.
> 
> The ancient Hebrew inscription consists of 40 letters and is centuries older than any known Hebrew inscription from ancient Israel.  The scientists employed advanced tomographic scans to recover the hidden text [and]...deciphered the proto-alphabetic inscription, which reads as follows:
> 
> Cursed, cursed, cursed – cursed by the God YHW.
> You will die cursed.
> Cursed you will surely die.
> Cursed by YHW – cursed, cursed, cursed.
> 
> According to Stripling, “These types of amulets are well known in the Hellenistic and Roman periods, but Zertal’s excavated pottery dated to the Iron Age I and Late Bronze Age, so logically the tablet derived from one of these earlier periods. Even so, our discovery of a Late Bronze Age inscription stunned me.”
> 
> Almost immediately Galil recognized the formulaic literary structure of the inscription: “From the symmetry, I could tell that it was written as a chiastic parallelism.”
> 
> According to Deuteronomy 27 and Joshua 8, Mt. Ebal was the mountain of the curse. Joshua 8:30 indicates that Joshua built an altar on Mt. Ebal. The defixio derived from previously excavated and discarded material from a structure Zertal believed was Joshua’s altar.



It may be a coincidence that a curse be found on a mountain most famous for its curse, but the dating of the tablet to the Late Bronze Age - the 14th to 13th century BCE - is about the accepted time of the Exodus. 

As far as I can tell, this is the earliest mention of the Hebrew God using the tetragrammaton by centuries - the previously earliest find was the Mesha Stele from 840 BCE.

The chiastic structure of the curse (ABCCBA) is clear, and the Hebrew Bible is filled with similar chiastic structures throughout, such as Genesis 9:6: שֹׁפֵךְ֙ דַּ֣ם הָֽאָדָ֔ם בָּֽאָדָ֖ם דָּמ֣וֹ יִשָּׁפֵ֑ךְ, "the spiller of blood of a human, by a human would his blood be spilled." Some chiasms span chapters or entire books.

(full article online)









						Perhaps the most important Biblical archaeology discovery in years
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Canary Mission has a page on her and says that she has supported terrorists on Facebook (she took down that link) and is/was a member of the “F**k Israel" Facebook group.

Ghneim was also a student activist with Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) at Rutgers University.

Her current Facebook page show that she "likes" the BDS movement and many anti-Israel groups.

A typical Facebook post claims that Jesus was a Palestinian with the type of propaganda we would expect at UNRWA schools.

















UNRWA-USA doesn't have the same neutrality requirements that UNRWA has, as it is not a UN agency. So the hate and lies can be freely shared, as we've seen many times in the past.

(full article online)









						New @UNRWAUSA Communications Manager once belonged to "F**k Israel" FB group
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

“Please delete slide 43: According to the relevant decisions of the General Assembly and the Security Council, the Basic Law: Jerusalem, the capital of Israel, is not valid from our point of view,” the UN reportedly said in its instructions.

“This is a most sensitive issue, and the information in the slide contradicts international law,” the organization added.

Channel 12 also reported that the UN has asked Israel to remove text accompanying a photo of the parliament (Knesset) that describes Jerusalem as “the eternal capital of the Jewish people and their holy city.”

“This quote is not relevant to the photo, and its removal will help prevent contradictions with international law and political sensitivities,” the UN reportedly told Israel.

Israel’s Ambassador to the United Nations Gilad Erdan protested the demands in a letter to UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres and called for the exhibit to be presented without modifications.

“The UN’s impertinent request to censor the exhibit and remove photos that reflect our national history is in fact a request to rewrite Israel’s history, and we will not accept it in any way,” Erdan stressed.

(full article online)









						UN Wants References to Jerusalem as Capital Removed From Parliament Exhibit: Report
					

The United Nations logo is seen at the 2019 United Nations Climate Action Summit at U.N. headquarters in New York, …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## Mindful

In Vienna 1820, Rabbi David HaKohen Friesenhausen (ca. 1756-1828) published a work in Hebrew entitled _Mosdot Tevel_ (Foundations of the Universe). Friesenhausen procured rabbinic letters of recommendation which he printed in _Mosdot Tevel_, including such a letter from the illustrious Rabbi Moshe Sofer (known as the “Ḥatam Sofer”, 1762-1839), who, together with other rabbinic personalities in Hungary and Moravia, was even a prepaid subscriber to the book.

On its title page, Friesenhausen tells us that his work contains three sections that heretofore had not appeared in Hebrew. The first section deals with the heliocentric cosmology as formulated by the Polish astronomer and mathematician Nicolaus Copernicus (1473-1543), and the second section is a discourse with the geometry of the Alexandrian Greek, Euclid (ca. 300 BCE). In addition to the rabbinic recommendations, Friesenhausen mentions that his mathematical work could also be vouched for, though not by rabbinic personalities.
The third section of the work, entitled “The Book of the Will: Instructions of the Author to his Children after Him,” contains Friesenhausen’s own Ethical Will.

The Book of the Will: Instructions of the Author to his Children after Him:









						The Last Will and Testament of Rabbi David Friesenhausen
					

Published in 1820, the work contains some surprising, candid views on science, faith, women, and more...




					blog.nli.org.il


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> You posted that Jews killed Peacekeepers.  There were no UN peacekeepers until after the armistice in 1949
> 
> Now you give the date 1920.  The article gives 1940.
> 
> You keep trying to find any excuse to the disgusting British behavior which was predominantly pro Arab and against the Jewish rights to rebuild their Nation ON their ancient homeland.
> 
> You are again attempting to rewrite history, where the British and the Arabs are not responsible for what happened to the Patria.
> 
> How many Jews were sent back to Europe by the British and ended up dead in concentration camps.
> 
> How many of them were sent to a camp in Greece as prisoners, until the end of the Mandate?
> 
> Talk about the Patria.
> 
> Tell me about the Exodus.
> 
> Tell me about all the Ships full of Jews returned to Europe to be killed by the Nazis.
> 
> What else do you have to try to turn Zionists into  bad people?


The Zionists killed over 500 British peacekeepers.  It was the British Mandate, remember?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Zionists killed over 500 British peacekeepers.  It was the British Mandate, remember?


Soldiers. The British Army.  Not Peacekeepers.
They hardly kept any peace, allowing the Arabs to riot against the Jews all the time.

Not one article I found about them calls them peacekeepers, they are called soldiers.  British soldiers.
Who did what their government told them to do.

Peacekeepers are from many different countries.

You use the word peacekeepers to make it look as if Jews killed innocent people during that time.  That was not their role.

How many British did the Arabs kill?

-----------
When the British 6th Airborne Division arrived in response to increasing terrorist activity, it became involved in internal security, being responsible for cordons and search operations, guarding convoys and key installations. As the situation worsened, the men of the division had to patrol the towns and cities, enforce curfews and deal with rioting by the civilian population. They also protected Jewish and Arab settlements from sectarian violence. This was not without loss to the division and several members were killed and wounded during this time.

The end of the British mandate coincided with the post war reduction of the British Army back to peace time levels, and the division's numbers were gradually reduced. By the end of their tenure in Palestine, the division's strength was reduced in real terms, to less than brigade size. In 1948 it was disbanded soon after its withdrawal from Palestine.









						6th Airborne Division in Palestine - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



-------------

UN Peacekeeping helps countries navigate the difficult path from conflict to peace. We have unique strengths, including legitimacy, burden sharing, and an ability to deploy troops and police from around the world, integrating them with civilian peacekeepers to address a range of mandates set by the UN Security Council and General Assembly.









						United Nations Peacekeeping
					

UN Peacekeeping helps countries navigate the difficult path from conflict to peace. We have unique strengths, including legitimacy, burden sharing, and an ability to deploy troops and police from around the world, integrating them with civilian peacekeepers to address a range of mandates set by...




					peacekeeping.un.org
				





What role did Al Husseini and all the Arab clans have to do with any of their deaths?  The British soldiers were there because of Arab terrorism against Jews.  But they were hardly instructed to protect the Jews, as history has shown us.


----------



## Mindful

Sixties Fan said:


> They hardly kept any peace, allowing the Arabs to riot against the Jews all the time.



They even took pot shots themselves.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Zionists killed over 500 British peacekeepers.  It was the British Mandate, remember?


Let us have a link where it says that 500 British soldiers were killed by Jews during the mandate.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Let us have a link where it says that 500 British soldiers were killed by Jews during the mandate.











						Prince William in Israel: Why won't he honour British military dead?
					

The King David Hotel bombing is a bitterly contested event - and Prince William should commemorate the dead when he stays there




					www.middleeasteye.net


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Prince William in Israel: Why won't he honour British military dead?
> 
> 
> The King David Hotel bombing is a bitterly contested event - and Prince William should commemorate the dead when he stays there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.middleeasteye.net


1) I hope you did not miss this paragraph:

"Arab militants murdered Jews. During the Arab revolt of 1936-39 they also killed several hundred British, who retaliated by killing thousands of Arabs."

2). The number 500 is missing from this article

3). As I posted before:

 But around 800 British soldiers died during the Jewish insurgency against British rule in Mandatory Palestine between 1945 and 1948. More than 100 more policemen lost their lives. Some died from disease or accident, but many died at the hands of militant groups.


----------



## surada

T





Sixties Fan said:


> 1) I hope you did not miss this paragraph:
> 
> "Arab militants murdered Jews. During the Arab revolt of 1936-39 they also killed several hundred British, who retaliated by killing thousands of Arabs."
> 
> 2). The number 500 is missing from this article
> 
> 3). As I posted before:
> 
> But around 800 British soldiers died during the Jewish insurgency against British rule in Mandatory Palestine between 1945 and 1948. More than 100 more policemen lost their lives. Some died from disease or accident, but many died at the hands of militant groups.


The Zionists set up their terror gangs in 1920. Remember when they murdered Count Bernadotte after he saved 30,000 Jews? Remember when they blew up the Patria and killed all the Jewish refugees?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> T
> The Zionists set up their terror gangs in 1920. Remember when they murdered Count Bernadotte after he saved 30,000 Jews? Remember when they blew up the Patria and killed all the Jewish refugees?


Cry me a river.

You lie about the Jews killing 500 British soldiers and then repeat the same garbage.

Iraq was also a British Mandate.  It became Independent much earlier then the Palestine Mandate.  I wonder why. A Muslim government took place in Iraq.  Same Iraq which allowed an Arab from the Mandate for Palestine to come over in 1941 and start a riot there, as he started riots in the Mandate for Palestine, with the intention of killing Jews.

The British stood waiting during the attack on Jews in Hebron, 1929 , and the British waited outside the city during the 2 day attack in Iraq against the Jews in 1941.

The British government and the British commanders in Mandate for Palestine and Iraq were Jew haters and they allowed Jews to be attacked and murdered without doing anything.

And you insist that the British were like saints who did not deserve what they got.

When a colonizing power, England, refuses to allow the Jews immigrate to their ancient homeland, when they allow the Arabs to attack and murder Jews and have them expelled from their homes and cities, and do nothing........

ANY People/Nation would defend itself and do everything to make the colonizers GET OUT of their homeland.

And THAT is what the Jews were forced to do.

Cry me an ocean over the innocent British soldiers and Arabs who were made to come to Palestine and ended up in a war against the Jews and their rebuilding of their ancient Nation, started by the Al Husseini clan.

A peaceful Mandate could have happened had it not been for the AL Husseini clan and the riots they started, and the British betrayal of the Mandate for the Jewish rebuilding of their Nation.

The British and the Arabs caused thousands of Jews to not be allowed to immigrate to their homeland and ended up returned to Europe and into the concentration camps where they were killed.

Live with that !!!!


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sixties Fan said:


> Cry me a river.
> 
> You lie about the Jews killing 500 British soldiers and then repeat the same garbage.
> 
> Iraq was also a British Mandate.  It became Independent much earlier then the Palestine Mandate.  I wonder why. A Muslim government took place in Iraq.  Same Iraq which allowed an Arab from the Mandate for Palestine to come over in 1941 and start a riot there, as he started riots in the Mandate for Palestine, with the intention of killing Jews.
> 
> The British stood waiting during the attack on Jews in Hebron, 1929 , and the British waited outside the city during the 2 day attack in Iraq against the Jews in 1941.
> 
> The British government and the British commanders in Mandate for Palestine and Iraq were Jew haters and they allowed Jews to be attacked and murdered without doing anything.
> 
> And you insist that the British were like saints who did not deserve what they got.
> 
> When a colonizing power, England, refuses to allow the Jews immigrate to their ancient homeland, when they allow the Arabs to attack and murder Jews and have them expelled from their homes and cities, and do nothing........
> And let me not forget the thousands of Jews attacked and expelled from TranJordan in 1925.  The British......well....as usual......did nothing.
> ANY People/Nation would defend itself and do everything to make the colonizers GET OUT of their homeland.
> 
> And THAT is what the Jews were forced to do.
> 
> Cry me an ocean over the innocent British soldiers and Arabs who were made to come to Palestine and ended up in a war against the Jews and their rebuilding of their ancient Nation, started by the Al Husseini clan.
> 
> A peaceful Mandate could have happened had it not been for the AL Husseini clan and the riots they started, and the British betrayal of the Mandate for the Jewish rebuilding of their Nation.
> 
> The British and the Arabs caused thousands of Jews to not be allowed to immigrate to their homeland and ended up returned to Europe and into the concentration camps where they were killed.
> 
> Live with that !!!!


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Cry me a river.
> 
> You lie about the Jews killing 500 British soldiers and then repeat the same garbage.
> 
> Iraq was also a British Mandate.  It became Independent much earlier then the Palestine Mandate.  I wonder why. A Muslim government took place in Iraq.  Same Iraq which allowed an Arab from the Mandate for Palestine to come over in 1941 and start a riot there, as he started riots in the Mandate for Palestine, with the intention of killing Jews.
> 
> The British stood waiting during the attack on Jews in Hebron, 1929 , and the British waited outside the city during the 2 day attack in Iraq against the Jews in 1941.
> 
> The British government and the British commanders in Mandate for Palestine and Iraq were Jew haters and they allowed Jews to be attacked and murdered without doing anything.
> 
> And you insist that the British were like saints who did not deserve what they got.
> 
> When a colonizing power, England, refuses to allow the Jews immigrate to their ancient homeland, when they allow the Arabs to attack and murder Jews and have them expelled from their homes and cities, and do nothing........
> 
> ANY People/Nation would defend itself and do everything to make the colonizers GET OUT of their homeland.
> 
> And THAT is what the Jews were forced to do.
> 
> Cry me an ocean over the innocent British soldiers and Arabs who were made to come to Palestine and ended up in a war against the Jews and their rebuilding of their ancient Nation, started by the Al Husseini clan.
> 
> A peaceful Mandate could have happened had it not been for the AL Husseini clan and the riots they started, and the British betrayal of the Mandate for the Jewish rebuilding of their Nation.
> 
> The British and the Arabs caused thousands of Jews to not be allowed to immigrate to their homeland and ended up returned to Europe and into the concentration camps where they were killed.
> 
> Live with that !!!!


The mufti arranged safe passage and residency in Spain. The Zionists stopped that.
 You don't know anything about the history. Who do you think became King of Iraq? Why and where was he from?        You're right. They killed 800 British peacekeepers.


.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The mufti arranged safe passage and residency in Spain. The Zionists stopped that.
> You don't know anything about the history. Who do you think became King of Iraq? Why and where was he from?        You're right. They killed 800 British peacekeepers.
> 
> 
> .


You continue to lie about the Nazi Mufti and everything else for your own purposes.

Keep at it.


----------



## rylah

JoeB131 said:


> I have a degree in history, thanks for asking.
> 
> You, on the other hand, think that European Jews are entitled to Palestine because a book with talking snakes says they are.



Repeating Edward Said's racist tropes is not knowledge of history,
rather shows Arab supremacists' main argument in appeal to
basic ignorance in the subject.

He preferred to talk about "European Jews" only to deflect from the facts,
that majority of Israelis are descendants of former dhimmis from the same 
countries that the Arabs came from. And Zionism was a response to Arab pogroms.


----------



## rylah

JoeB131 said:


> Except they kind of didn't.  As I pointed out, there are still communities of non-Muslims in the Islamic World, as opposed to the Christian World which has had centuries of wiping out pagans and terrorists.
> 
> My very favorite was the Albigensian Crusade, where when the Papal Legate was asked how to tell a Christian from a Heretic, he responded "Kill them all, for God knows his own". (Sometimes simplified as "Kill them all, let God sort them out."
> 
> So what did the Muslims do?  The imposed a tax on non-Muslims.  Don't want to pay the tax, convert to Islam.  HOW HORRIBLE!!!



Islamic apologetics assumes two wrongs make a right.
By the same appel, because fewer Africans were enslaved
in the Christian world, and treated worse by Muslims, it "wasn't horrible"...

*Q. *So how much Jizyah should be imposed on Muslims in the lands they've colonized?


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> Repeating Edward Said's racist tropes is not knowledge of history,
> rather shows Arab supremacists' main argument in appeal to
> basic ignorance in the subject.
> 
> He preferred to talk about "European Jews" only to deflect from the facts,
> that majority of Israelis are descendants of former dhimmis from the same
> countries that the Arabs came from. And Zionism was a response to Arab pogroms.


Been a few hundred years since there were Dhimmis. At least they didn't pay as much taxes as Muslims.


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> Islamic apologetics assumes two wrongs make a right.
> By the same appel, because fewer Africans were enslaved
> in the Christian world, and treated worse by Muslims, it "wasn't horrible"...
> 
> *Q. *So how much Jizyah should be imposed on Muslims in the lands they've colonized?


Jizya was paid by able-bodied men to avoid defense of the community.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Jizya was paid by able-bodied men to avoid defense of the community.


Kindly explain this sentence.

And give us its source.


----------



## Sixties Fan

But here’s a reality check. Lentils became one of the first farmed crops in the entire Middle East region—even long before Jews reigned in sovereign Israel, certainly long before the rise of Christianity, Islam, or the Ottoman and British Mandates.

Lentil stew, presumably so red, so tasty, is precisely what Esau traded his birthright for—and this is written in Bereshit, Genesis, the first book of our Torah. Moreover, I easily found fifteen such lentil dishes on the internet consisting of red, brown, and yellow lentils, all with similar ingredients, none pegged to a specific country, tribe, group, or identity. I even found Israeli versions of such lentil stews, sometimes known as mujaderra or majadara, a staple in the cuisine of Jews around the world.

With all due respect to Bamieh’s entrepreneurship and artistry, (she’s a graduate of the very Jewish Israeli Bezalal Academy for Fine Arts—named after the Biblical artist who constructed the Mishkan, the Tabernacle), the _New York Times_ is finding every way possible to poison and propagandize its readers, drop by drop, article by article, into the belief that there once was a country known as Palestine and it should be restored, if not “from the river to the sea” (which would obliterate Israel) then close enough.

Mina Stone, at MOMA’s PS1, writes about Mirva Bamieh in this way:

“Her descriptions of Palestinian cooking, the landscape, the herbs, and wild edible plants made me long to be there, suddenly feeling a sense of nostalgia for a country I have never been to.” Actually, it is a country that never existed. She quotes Bamieh:

“What colonization does is flatten your sense of identity. I grew up not knowing another Palestine other than the one that has been occupied—the one that has been dispossessed. What we have is our voice, and for me, that’s one way of making peace. Once you’ve discovered that there's a richness to who you are, that you didn’t know of before, openings happen.”

I would have found Mishan’s piece about Rqaq w adas in the_ New York Times_ totally acceptable if somewhere, anywhere, she had noted, in passing, that people in every single country in the Middle East (Lebanese, Egyptians, Iraqis, Syrians, Jordanians, Saudis, etc.) use lentils to create such dishes; people including Jews worldwide, Jews in Israel, Israeli Christian and Muslim Arabs and those Arabs who live in Israel but consider themselves Palestinians—all cook wonderful lentil dishes.

But Mishan did not. 

(full article online)

Ironically, parenthetically, Bamieh also refers to a sweet Persian pastry. What other roots might Mirva Bamieh someday claim?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Kindly explain this sentence.
> 
> And give us its source.


It's always been that way. Jizya was never paid by women, children or the elderly. And if the Muslims failed to protect those who did pay jizya, they had to repay the taxes. Jizya was always less than Muslims paid. And, in some cases like the Christians of Najran the Muslims waived jizya. You have a Sabra education which promotes hate and justification for the European Zionists.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> It's always been that way. Jizya was never paid by women, children or the elderly. And if the Muslims failed to protect those who did pay jizya, they had to repay the taxes. Jizya was always less than Muslims paid. And, in some cases like the Christians of Najran the Muslims waived jizya. You have a Sabra education which promotes hate and justification for the European Zionists.


Your source is.....


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> It's always been that way. Jizya was never paid by women, children or the elderly. And if the Muslims failed to protect those who did pay jizya, they had to repay the taxes. Jizya was always less than Muslims paid. And, in some cases like the Christians of Najran the Muslims waived jizya. You have a Sabra education which promotes hate and justification for the European Zionists.


"You have a Sabra education which promotes hate and justification for the European Zionists."

I would like to thank you for your extreme example of antisemitism.

Well learned.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Is it possible that a great number of Arabs who fled Mandate Palestine in 1948 actually were Arabs from across the Middle East who had recently arrived for better employment opportunities?










Al-Jazeera source










						The Arabs Who Fled Mandate Palestine, Came from...?
					

Is it possible that a great number of Arabs who fled Mandate Palestine in 1948 actually were Arabs from across the Middle East who had recen...




					myrightword.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Fans of the show are  curious about whether this means that some Jewish magic or something is involved in the show. So Al Masry al Youm went to their local Jew-hating professor to ask what he thought it might mean.





> Dr. Magdi Shaker, chief archaeologist at the Egyptian Ministry of Antiquities, said that the seven-branched candlestick is one of the oldest symbols of the Children of Israel, as it says after historical accounts that the seven-branched candlestick is one of the symbols and connotations of the hidden secrets of the children of Israel, including, of course, the arts of magic.
> Shaker explained, in exclusive statements to Al-Masry Al-Youm, that the inscription of the menorah or the menorah with seven or nine branches, which the Jews took as their emblem, has no historical basis, and while the menorah was mentioned in the Book of Exodus, some attributed it to the Sumerians, because It is very similar to the shape of the sacred Sumerian tree of life.  Some attributed the candelabra to Canaanite origin, and then the Jews used it because they had no civilization of their own.
> He continued: "The menorah has emerged as a Jewish symbol since the beginnings of the Roman era. It is a special symbol of the Roman civilization. As for the religious reference they relied on to link this symbol to the history of the Jews, it does not have any correct religious basis."








There you go. The extensive descriptions of the menorah in the Torah and Tanach are not original, and they resemble the ancient Sumerian Tree of Life, even though I cannot find any ancient trees of Life that remotely resemble the candelabra.


But Egyptian "scholars" as so filled with hate for Jews that they start from the assumption that Jews have contributed nothing original to world culture and therefore they must have simply stolen the symbol from others. (Shaker doesn't even know the origin of the Chanukiah!)

On a related topic, I have a must-read article from 2013 that notes that Muslims often put a menorah on their own coins, and the reason they did it fits in very nicely with their desire to subvert Judaism in all forms. 

(full article online)









						An Egyptian "expert" explains that the seven branch menorah has nothing to do with Judaism
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Iyad al-Baghdadi achieved a level of fame during the Arab Spring as an advocate of liberty in the Arab world. He calls himself a Palestinian who now lives in Norway, but his name betrays that his ancestors came from Iraq, not the Levant.

He tweeted that Israel has no chance of surviving the next twenty years:





> Israel is a fundamentally unsustainable project. Over the next 20 years, every one of its unsustainabilities will come to a head. Smart Israelis know it. Meanwhile the oblivious majority still think they've "won". Israel is fundamentally unsustainable and its myriad unsustainabilities will boil over in the coming two decades. No amount of disinformation or pile-ons will change this fact. Time will prove these tweets true.


Arabs have been making similar predictions for as long as Israel has existed. 






I found this op-ed by Egyptian president Mohammed Naguib, written in January 1954, published in the Indianapolis Star:






> I cannot understand why the Jews in various countries throughout the world renounce their nationalities, their comfortably organized life and their financial and scientific activities to embark on the hazardous enterprise of emigration to this tiny area—Israel.
> From contrasting environments in different countries, and speaking various languages, they are crowding themselves together to face a new life full of risks and difficulties. They certainly cannot hope to create there the same agreeable existence to which they were accustomed in their countries of origin.
> In Egypt, for example, there are 50,000 Jews. They enjoy full rights, live their own life, and conduct their own affairs in exactly the same way as all other Egyptian citizens.
> Our sister country, the Lebanon, has large and numerous communities of her nationals in the Argentine and the United States. Together their numbers total more than the population of the Lebanon itself. They are most energetic communities, having achieved prosperity in commerce and business. But the Lebanese people have never come to regard this as a reason why they should all emigrate from their motherland.
> Indeed, if all Jews everywhere are to go to this little land of Israel it will be able neither to accommodate nor sustain hem.
> Therefore, it is most advisable for the Jews to stop entirely this emigration to Israel, and to permit the return of the Arab refugees to their native land and to their property - their legitimate right.
> In addition to all this, Israel is a small country which has imposed itself in the midst of a group of Arab states. She is hard hit by their political and economic boycott which makes her very existence —and continued existence — an absolute impossibility.




Both predictions have something in common: a complete ignorance of what makes Jews want to live in Israel to begin with. General Naguib even admits he cannot understand why Jews would want to move to Israel - the emotional ties that Jews have to the Land of Israel.  Arabs are forced to deny any Jewish historic or religious ties to Israel or else they would be forced to admit that Jews have a right to the land. Because of their denial of Jewish history, they cannot fathom why Jews won't just run away at the first sign of trouble. And therefore they confidently predict Israel's demise based on their ignorance.

General Naguib is but a footnote in history. He was president for less than 18 months and was forced to resign later that same year by his successor Gamal Abdul Nasser. And the nation that he was so sure could not survive has outlived him and all his contemporaries.











						Arabs have been predicting Israel's demise for seven decades. They still are.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Iyad al-Baghdadi achieved a level of fame during the Arab Spring as an advocate of liberty in the Arab world. He calls himself a Palestinian who now lives in Norway, but his name betrays that his ancestors came from Iraq, not the Levant.
> 
> He tweeted that Israel has no chance of surviving the next twenty years:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs have been making similar predictions for as long as Israel has existed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found this op-ed by Egyptian president Mohammed Naguib, written in January 1954, published in the Indianapolis Star:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both predictions have something in common: a complete ignorance of what makes Jews want to live in Israel to begin with. General Naguib even admits he cannot understand why Jews would want to move to Israel - the emotional ties that Jews have to the Land of Israel.  Arabs are forced to deny any Jewish historic or religious ties to Israel or else they would be forced to admit that Jews have a right to the land. Because of their denial of Jewish history, they cannot fathom why Jews won't just run away at the first sign of trouble. And therefore they confidently predict Israel's demise based on their ignorance.
> 
> General Naguib is but a footnote in history. He was president for less than 18 months and was forced to resign later that same year by his successor Gamal Abdul Nasser. And the nation that he was so sure could not survive has outlived him and all his contemporaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs have been predicting Israel's demise for seven decades. They still are.
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com


This is nonsense. Jews have always had a minority presence in Palestine.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> This is nonsense. Jews have always had a minority presence in Palestine.


Minority or majority does not denote Indigenous status and rights of a people.

What do you refer to as nonsense ?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Minority or majority does not denote Indigenous status and rights of a people.
> 
> What do you refer to as nonsense ?


Jews lived all over the Arab world for thousands of years. The people of Palestine, Syria and Lebanon are all related and have been around since before Abraham.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Jews lived all over the Arab world for thousands of years. The people of Palestine, Syria and Lebanon are all related and have been around since before Abraham.


That is not a response to my question.

That is another one of your ready made paragraphs you copy and paste at will.

Now, in your own words.........

And try some historical facts while you are at it.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> That is not a response to my question.
> 
> That is another one of your ready made paragraphs you copy and paste at will.
> 
> Now, in your own words.........
> 
> And try some historical facts while you are at it.


It's not a copy and paste.  You are in complete denial about your history. Non Jews have always lived in Palestine. Putin is trying to erase the Ukrainians. What you are doing is no different.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> It's not a copy and paste.  You are in complete denial about your history. Non Jews have always lived in Palestine. Putin is trying to erase the Ukrainians. What you are doing is no different.



There have never been more Arabs in this land before Israeli sovereignty.
And it's the Arab supremacists side with Putin, because what he's doing
is no different from Arab imperialism in the Middle East and Africa.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> It's not a copy and paste.  You are in complete denial about your history. Non Jews have always lived in Palestine. Putin is trying to erase the Ukrainians. What you are doing is no different.


The whole world knows Jewish history.  Christianity and Islam know Jewish history.

Of course, again, non Jews always lived in Ancient Canaan.  But not a people called Palestinians, and much less hundreds of thousands of Arabs before
the Arab invasion in the 7th century of this era.

If these Arabs/Palestinians had had a history with the Jewish Nation, or the Egyptians, Greeks, Assyrians, Romans and Byzantine before the Muslim invasion......it would be written in their histories.  And there is nothing.


And now, you are repeating what the Palestinians, who are beyond friendly with Russia by the way, decided to use as a saying against Israel.

Thousands of Arabs living in Israel, and even in Gaza and Judea and Samaria would disagree with you about the ugly comparison, because they know that it has been the other way around since 1920.

The Israeli Arabs love Israel, unless they are there to be against Israel for Islam.

The poor Gaza Arabs are sick and tired of being used by Hamas and kept poor, and are leaving by any means they can. Via Israel by the way, via health care, or any excuse they can get to get out of Gaza.

The Arabs of Judea and Samaria are equally leaving because the PA could not care less about them anymore than Hamas does.


By all means do NEVER go to Israel and really see what goes on, and what so many Arabs think.  Go visit only the places where the Arabs will say exactly what you wish to hear.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> The whole world knows Jewish history.  Christianity and Islam know Jewish history.
> 
> Of course, again, non Jews always lived in Ancient Canaan.  But not a people called Palestinians, and much less hundreds of thousands of Arabs before
> the Arab invasion in the 7th century of this era.
> 
> If these Arabs/Palestinians had had a history with the Jewish Nation, or the Egyptians, Greeks, Assyrians, Romans and Byzantine before the Muslim invasion......it would be written in their histories.  And there is nothing.
> 
> 
> And now, you are repeating what the Palestinians, who are beyond friendly with Russia by the way, decided to use as a saying against Israel.
> 
> Thousands of Arabs living in Israel, and even in Gaza and Judea and Samaria would disagree with you about the ugly comparison, because they know that it has been the other way around since 1920.
> 
> The Israeli Arabs love Israel, unless they are there to be against Israel for Islam.
> 
> The poor Gaza Arabs are sick and tired of being used by Hamas and kept poor, and are leaving by any means they can. Via Israel by the way, via health care, or any excuse they can get to get out of Gaza.
> 
> The Arabs of Judea and Samaria are equally leaving because the PA could not care less about them anymore than Hamas does.
> 
> 
> By all means do NEVER go to Israel and really see what goes on, and what so many Arabs think.  Go visit only the places where the Arabs will say exactly what you wish to hear.


Arabs were in Palestine and Syria long before Islam.. long before Judaism. The Akkadians and Amorites were Arabs. Sargon 2 settled four Arab tribes in Samaria around 600 BC... And, both Abraham and Moses had Arab wives. All that is documented.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Arabs were in Palestine and Syria long before Islam.. long before Judaism. The Akkadians and Amorites were Arabs. Sargon 2 settled four Arab tribes in Samaria around 600 BC... And, both Abraham and Moses had Arab wives. All that is documented.


LOL

Surada says that she does not copy and paste.

The above is another clear example.

When was the first time you met a Jewish person, Surada?

Not in Arabia or Lybia, possibly. No Jews in either country while you were there.

I ask because it clearly made a huge difference in your upbringing, on how it has made you feel about Jews, or Israelis.

Please answer.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> Arabs were in Palestine and Syria long before Islam.. long before Judaism. The Akkadians and Amorites were Arabs. Sargon 2 settled four Arab tribes in Samaria around 600 BC... And, both Abraham and Moses had Arab wives. All that is documented.



There were no 'Arabs' yet,
and the earliest historic record
mentioning Arabs is a thousand
years later, and outside the Levant.

So no, maybe Arabs should have moral courage to face responsibility
for the occupation of several continents instead of stealing their history?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> LOL
> 
> Surada says that she does not copy and paste.
> 
> The above is another clear example.
> 
> When was the first time you met a Jewish person, Surada?
> 
> Not in Arabia or Lybia, possibly. No Jews in either country while you were there.
> 
> I ask because it clearly made a huge difference in your upbringing, on how it has made you feel about Jews, or Israelis.
> 
> Please answer.


I met Alfred Lillienthal in Arabia and Jewish women in Libya.  The Jews didn't leave Libya until about 1973.


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> There were no 'Arabs' yet,
> the earliest historic record
> mentioning Arabs is a thousand
> years later, and outside the Levant.
> 
> So no, maybe Arabs have to face responsibility for the
> occupation of  several continents instead of stealing their history?


The Akkadians and Amorites were from Arabia. Sargon the 1st was an Arab.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The first mention of Arabs appeared in the mid-9th century BCE, as a tribal people in Eastern and Southern Syria and the northern Arabian Peninsula.[74] The Arabs appear to have been under the vassalage of the Neo-Assyrian Empire (911–612 BCE), as well as the succeeding Neo-Babylonian (626–539 BCE), Achaemenid (539–332 BCE), Seleucid and Parthian empires.[75] The Nabataeans, an Arab people, ruled a Kingdom near Petra in the 3rd century BCE. Arab tribes, most notably the Ghassanids and Lakhmids, began to appear in the Southern Syrian Desertfrom the mid 3rd century CE onward, during the mid to later stages of the Roman and Sasanian empires.[76]

Before the expansion of the Rashidun Caliphate (632–661 C.E.), "Arab" referred to any of the largely nomadic and settled Arabic-speaking people from the Arabian Peninsula, Syrian Desert and Lower Mesopotamia, with some even reaching what is now northern Iraq.[77] Since the influence of Pan-Arabism in the 1950s and 1960s, "Arabs" has been taken to refer to a large number of people whose native regions became part of the Arab world due to the spread of Islam, Arabic tribes and the Arabic language throughout the region during the early Muslim conquests of the 7th and 8th centuries. These cultural and demographic influences resulted in the subsequent Arabisation of the indigenous populations.[78][79]









						Arabs - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				





What is the Levant in the Bible?







The term is often used in reference to the ancient lands in the Old Testament of the Bible (Bronze Age): *the kingdoms of Israel, Ammon, Moab, Judah, Edom, and Aram; and the Phoenician and Philistine states*.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> I met Alfred Lillienthal in Arabia and Jewish women in Libya.  The Jews didn't leave Libya until about 1973.


Alfred Lilienthal - Wikipedia​https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Alfred_Lilienthal



Alfred M. Lilienthal (December 25, 1915 – October 6, 2008) was an American Jew, who was a prominent critic of Zionism and the state of Israel.

------------------
Did you meet any Jews who did not criticize Israel at that early age?

Did the Jewish women in Lybia also criticize Israel?
What were they critical of?


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> The Akkadians and Amorites were from Arabia. Sargon the 1st was an Arab.



And yet no one heard of any 'Arabs'
for another thousand years?

Historic revisionism can't
compensate for lack of
roots and justice.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Alfred Lilienthal - Wikipedia​https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Alfred_Lilienthal
> 
> 
> 
> Alfred M. Lilienthal (December 25, 1915 – October 6, 2008) was an American Jew, who was a prominent critic of Zionism and the state of Israel.
> 
> ------------------
> Did you meet any Jews who did not criticize Israel at that early age?
> 
> Did the Jewish women in Lybia also criticize Israel?
> What were they critical of?


Nope. The Teas and luncheons in Libya we're social events to support the arts. .. attended by Christians, Muslims and Jews.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Akkadians and Amorites were from Arabia. Sargon the 1st was an Arab.


Akkadians and Amorites lived outside of the Levant.
-----
Where did the Amorites come from in the Bible?






The Amorites were the indigenous people of *central inland and northern Syria*. They spoke a Semitic language related to modern Hebrew. During the Early Bronze Age (3200–2000 B.C.E.), they developed powerful states such as those centered on Ebla, Carchemish and Aleppo.
------
[They may have conquered some part of Ancient Canaan, but they cannot be considered indigenous of the area]
------------
Amorite, member of an ancient Semitic-speaking people who dominated the history of *Mesopotamia, Syria, and Palestine* from about 2000 to about 1600 bc. In the oldest cuneiform sources (c. 2400–c. 2000 bc), the Amorites were equated with the West, though their true place of origin was most likely Arabia, not Syria.
Amorite | people - Encyclopedia Britannica​


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Nope. The Teas and luncheons in Libya we're social events to support the arts. .. attended by Christians, Muslims and Jews.


What influence did Llithenhal have in how you saw Israel? 

Were the Jews in Lybia pro or against Israel ?


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

[ A bit from the Jews, a bit from the Egyptians, a little bit here, a little bit there.......]

Here's a short article in the official Palestinian Wafa news agency accompanied by a video that claims that the tradition of lighting lanterns in Ramadan comes from "ancient Jerusalem:"





> In the past, the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque was lit with lanterns, and the people of ancient Jerusalem used to carry them to light the way in the streets and alleys of ancient Jerusalem, until the acquisition of lanterns became a sacred heritage and tradition.
> To this day, Jerusalemites are still keen on acquiring lanterns to decorate homes, shops, streets and alleys, in celebration of the blessed month of Ramadan.




This is completely false. The tradition of lanterns (fanous) on Ramadan is universally regarded to come from Egypt, itself based on pre-Islamic Egyptian traditions. 

The Palestinian lie serves two purposes.

One is to claim being a separate people before Zionism, which they certainly weren't by any standard of peoplehood.

The other is to bolster their claim to Jerusalem, a city that was widely ignored by the Arab world before the 20th century, as an "ancient" Palestinian city. The only reason for this is to deny the truly ancient Jewish roots of Jerusalem. 

There is no such thing as a uniquely Palestinian culture that pre-dates Zionism. The Arabic Wikipedia page on "Palestinian culture" has very few specific examples from more than a century ago but it has a section on "resistance culture." Outside a very few exceptions of local culture like Nablus soap, Bethlehem costumes and Christian olive wood carving, Palestinians cannot point to anything cultural that ties them together. Even foods like maqlubeh that today are considered "Palestinian" come from elsewhere (in that case, it was mentioned with that name in a 13th century Baghdad cookbook.)

Since there is no historical Palestinian culture, Palestinians need to create one from scratch - and they therefore steal the culture of their neighbors. Which is exactly what they accuse Israel of doing.

This article in Wafa is a first step in yet another act of  Palestinian cultural theft.











						Ramadan lanterns: Palestinians hate Jews so much they try to steal cultural heritage of Egypt
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

In the 1830s,  William Cooke Taylor visited Joseph's Tomb in Shechem (Nablus) and described it as being recognized as a holy place by Jews, Christians and Muslims.









In recent decades, though, Palestinians have said that it is not the tomb of the Biblical Joseph at all, but the tomb of a Muslim coincidentally named Yūsuf Dawiqat, a sheikh. Apparently, Jewish interest in the site has retroactively changed Muslim history.

But whether or not Muslims venerate the site today as the tomb of the Biblical Joseph or of their newly discovered sheikh, their respect for the site seems not to be very deep. Yesterday, a group of Muslim youths broke into the site, broke the marker of the grave and tried to burn the entire site down in a case of major vandalism.

On Ramadan.





Here's video:



This is barely mentioned in Palestinian Arab media, and the one mention I found justified it as a "response to the crimes of the occupation." 

Yet no one seems bothered at an attack on a holy place specifically on Ramadan.

Which is interesting, because anything that Jews do that upsets Palestinians are magnified as much, much worse when it happens during Ramadan.

For example, Palestinian Arab media are reporting on a Jerusalem food festival next to Jaffa Gate today, the sort of thing that happens every day in Jerusalem. They are calling it a "Judaization Festival" that "de-sanctifies Jerusalem." And then they add:





> Holding the Judaization festival in the blessed month of Ramadan constitutes a provocation and an insult to the feelings of Muslims and Jerusalemites, and a violation of the sanctity of the holy month, says the specialist in Jerusalem affairs, Fakhri Abu Diab.


He adds that "the occupation deliberately organized the festival in the holy month" specifically to provoke Muslims. 

Meanwhile, the awful "occupation" allowed 75,000 Muslims to ascend to Judaism's holiest site on Friday, for Ramadan, even though their daily presence there is an unspeakable desecration under Jewish law. 

Ramadan is a wonderful thing: it is a reason for Muslims to murder Jews and vandalize Jewish holy sites, and it is also a reason for outrage at anything Jews do. 

To Palestinians, Ramadan's holiness is in its unique ability to be as hypocritical as they are.










						The Ramadan Rule: Palestinians can attack holy sites, Jews can't do anything
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> What influence did Llithenhal have in how you saw Israel?
> 
> Were the Jews in Lybia pro or against Israel ?


We never discussed Israel. It would have been rude. Have you read Lillienthal's book?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> We never discussed Israel. It would have been rude. Have you read Lillienthal's book?


Rude in what sense?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Rude in what sense?


It's rude to discuss Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> It's rude to discuss Israel.


Nonsense.  Only you would come up with such nonsense.
No one else has had issues discussing Israel, anywhere in the world.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Nonsense.  Only you would come up with such nonsense.
> No one else has had issues discussing Israel, anywhere in the world.


No one discusses Israel in any Arab or European countries I have been in. Never.


----------



## Sixties Fan

In part one of this post we looked at BBC World Service radio’s use of an inadequately introduced and less than impartial interviewee in the April 1stedition of the BBC World Service radio programme ‘The Real Story’ – presented by Julian Marshall – titled “Israel’s Arab Allies”.

Hot on the heels of that interview came another one with a no less problematic figure from 23:13.
------------

At 27:44 Marshall introduced another interviewee, Hanan Ashrawi.

Marshall: “Well let’s hear now from Hanan Ashrawi: veteran Palestinian politician and activist. Over the past three decades she’s participated in or had a front-row seat at just about every major attempt to find a diplomatic solution to the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians and she told me that she’s not impressed by the gathering this week in Israel.”

The participants in the Negev summit were Egypt, Morocco, the UAE, Bahrain and Israel. Marshall failed to challenge Ashrawi’s inaccurate opening claim whereby Egypt and Morocco “were never at war with Israel”.

Ashrawi: “It has nothing to do with peace or reconciliation. These countries were never at war with Israel. On the contrary, many of them had secret deals. They just came out into the open. And it is a question of pure self-interest. The Arab peace initiative was based clearly on the essence of Israel returning all the occupied Arab lands before any type of recognition or any type of normalisation. And this now has been turned on its head. This has created serious rifts in the Arab world and at the same time has entrenched this rift between the people and their leadership.” [emphasis added]

Unsurprisingly, Ashrawi’s inaccurate description of Judea & Samaria, parts of Jerusalem and presumably the Gaza Strip as “Arab lands” was not challenged by Marshall.

Marshall: “Could there be though another way of looking at this? Speaking at the conclusion of the summit in Negev [sic] US Secretary of State Blinken as well as the foreign ministers of Egypt and Morocco said that a two-state solution is still their aim, implying that renewed ties between Israel and its Arab neighbours make this more likely, not less. Couldn’t they be right?”

Ashrawi: “No. [laughs] This is a very flimsy excuse for normalisation. Because everybody pays lip service to the so-called two-state solution while they sit back and allow Israel to destroy it.”

Marshall: “I wonder though how young Palestinians see all of this; this rapprochement between a number of Arab states and Israel. They want jobs, they want opportunity, they’ve grown up seeing the old approach of negotiations fail time and time again. Might there be – could you concede – some level of public support in the West Bank and Gaza for leaders to try something new?”

Ashrawi: “I think there is support for something new but certainly it’s not capitulation. And it’s not entering into collusion with Israel. Actually, if you listen to the younger generation, they’re quite upset with the older one. They’re upset with my generation and the older generation: people who thought that you could have a negotiated settlement with Israel. They feel that they’ve been betrayed by the Oslo Agreements. They feel that their leadership has not stood up to Israel per se and they feel actually that they have to adopt a multi-faceted comprehensive system of rights, of freedom, of justice. And I think the whole concept of resistance is now being reformulated.”

Those latter claims were later challenged by contributor Noga Tarnopolski.

As we see, BBC World Service radio’s idea of providing listeners with analysis of “a key news story” included contributions from an inadequately introduced Iranian regime mouthpiece, a senior member of a Palestinian terrorist organisation and a Palestinian career politician and founder of an anti-Israel political NGO who – as the BBC is presumably aware – has made her opposition to peace agreements between Israel and countries in the region amply clear.

(full article online)









						BBC WS uses propagandists to tell ‘the real story’ about the Negev summit – part two
					

In part one of this post we looked at BBC World Service radio’s use of an inadequately introduced and less than impartial interviewee in the April 1st edition




					camera-uk.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Since Israel was rebuilt, Muslims insist in showing the truth about being related to the Jews since Abraham 's time.  Heck of a way of honoring and respecting their "Patriarchs" by destroying their tombs and anything else related to Judaism......again.....and again.....and again......]


A group of some 100 Muslim rioters attacked Joseph’s Tomb in Shechem (Nablus) on Saturday night and caused massive damage to the building, a Jewish site of prayer.

After throwing rocks at the complex, the rioters set fire to the building, broke the grave marker, and destroyed property. The Palestinian Authority’s police subsequently turned the rioters away.

When Jewish worshippers enter the site, they are routinely attacked by Arab rioters. The entry into Shechem, under Palestinian Authority (PA) control, occurs several times a year, usually around Jewish holidays. The prayers take place only during the night and under heavy security provided by the Israeli forces.


(full article online)

https://unitedwithisrael.org/palestinians-torch-sacred-jewish-historical-site-josephs-tomb/?utm_source=newsletters_unitedwithisrael_org&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Israeli+Astronaut’s+Passover+Seder+will+be+Out+of+this+World%3B+Palestinians+Torch+Sacred+Biblical+Tomb%3B+Anti-Israel+Celeb+Blasted+for+Condemning+Terror+Attack&utm_campaign=20220410_m167373435_Israeli+Astronaut’s+Passover+Seder+will+be+Out+of+this+World%3B+Palestinians+Torch+Sacred+Biblical+Tomb%3B+Anti-Israel+Celeb+Blasted+for+Condemning+Terror+Attack&utm_term=more_btn_dark_jpg


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> No one discusses Israel in any Arab or European countries I have been in. Never.


Did you read Lilienthal's book (s) before or after you met him?  How did you learn about him and his books?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Did you read Lilienthal's book (s) before or after you met him?  How did you learn about him and his books?


After. Saudi Arabia often had talent or lecturers... Like Carlos Montoya, Hal Holbrook, Wilfred Thesiger, Kenny Rogers.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> After. Saudi Arabia often had talent or lecturers... Like Carlos Montoya, Hal Holbrook, Wilfred Thesiger, Kenny Rogers.


Did he speak about his books?  What did he say about them?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Did he speak about his books?  What did he say about them?


He spoke about What Price Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> He spoke about What Price Israel.


In other words, he did discuss Israel.  

 You did say that it was rude to discuss Israel, and that no place you went to, discussed Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

In the video, a man is heard saying in Arabic: “There is no Joseph’s Tomb anymore, you traitors.”

The comment was apparently a reference to the Palestinian Authority, after the Nablus regional governor pledged to restore the site following its vandalization on Sunday, and reaffirmed that the shrine was under the PA’s protection. Ibrahim Ramadan also said that Nablus was a “city of three religions.”

(full article online)









						For 2nd day in row, Palestinians said to break into Joseph’s Tomb, vandalize shrine
					

Video of man throwing rocks circulates hours after 2 Israelis shot in unclear circumstances while trying to reach site




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Whose side were the British at the end of their Mandate for Palestine/Israel ? ]

A British mortar bomb from Israel’s War of Independence in 1948 was located in a wooded area near Ma’aleh Hahamisha, outside of Jerusalem, by a family walking in the area on Saturday afternoon.

Jerusalem District sappers were dispatched to the site, and they determined that it was a British 81mm mortar shell and contained about 500 grams of explosives, left behind during the War of Independence.


(full article online)









						British Shell From Israel’s Independence War Found Near Jerusalem | United with Israel
					

The British 81mm mortar shell contained about 500 grams of explosives.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Thunderbird

Sixties Fan said:


> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?


I’d just like to point out that the Palestinians are the Jews and the Zionists are more like European colonizers.









						Most Palestinians Are Descendants Of Jews
					

From the blog of Dov Ivry at The Times of Israel




					blogs.timesofisrael.com
				




The Palestinians are closer genetically and religiously to the original Jews. Most Zionists are not religious.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> In other words, he did discuss Israel.
> 
> You did say that it was rude to discuss Israel, and that no place you went to, discussed Israel.


It's very sad what Zionists have done. Have you read A Palestinian Christian's Cry for Reconciliation by Afif?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> It's very sad what Zionists have done. Have you read A Palestinian Christian's Cry for Reconciliation by Afif?


You cannot answer my post?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> You cannot answer my post?


I think context matters.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> I think context matters.


You debunked the very same thing you posted about in an earlier post.

That does not matter?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> You debunked the very same thing you posted about in an earlier post.
> 
> That does not matter?


You spend every waking moment writing about  your victim status and demonizing Arabs.. justifying stealing land and killing those who resist. Not smart.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> You spend every waking moment writing about  your victim status and demonizing Arabs.. justifying stealing land and killing those who resist. Not smart.


You are running away, again, from answering questions you do not want the answers to.

You read a book from an American Jew whose only worry is American Jews dual loyalty.  I wonder why he thought that.  That is a common Judeophobic canard used against American, and only American, Jews.

You read books from Christians who were taught that Jews have no right to their own sovereign land. That Jews must continue to be Stateless.  The Wandering Jew is so much more interesting than the Jews who have a state and fight against oppression and defend and protect their people and their homeland.

There is nothing like using Jesus, a Jew, to deny Jews the right to their homeland and any sovereignty over it.

Ateek, not Afif, and his book is nothing more than a continuation of Religious Antisemitism.  Not pro Israel, not pro Jews, and definitely not for a peaceful conclusion of the Arab war on the Jews even if that is what he may write about.

Because there is nothing more provoking to some Christians and Muslims than Jews being sovereign of their own destiny and fighting back.  Something the Jews could not do for 1700 years.


That is the context you are unable to discuss.

------
An Anglican priest from Beisan in the Galilee, Ateek attended seminary in Berkeley during the 1960s, where he had ample opportunity to learn about the new liberation theology movement, which had spread to North America from El Salvador, Nicaragua, Mexico and other very religious Third World countries. Ateek took this new theology back with him to Palestine and cultivated it in the Palestinian Christian community through church discussion groups, just as it had been developed in the Americas. He established the Sabeel Ecumenical Liberation Theology Center in Jerusalem, thereby accomplishing what the institutional churches have failed to do—taking the Gospel beyond scholarship to discipleship and witness, into the pews and streets, to checkpoints, demolished houses, refugee camps, barrier walls and political prisons.

This is what Jesus did, inspiring a nonviolent resistance movement to build the kingdom of God on earth. That “original flame” of the first two centuries, says Ateek, was lost when Christianity became part of the Roman Empire. But the flame has been lit again, and may it set the world on fire.









						A Palestinian Christian Cry for Reconciliation
					

Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, May-June 2009, page 74BooksA Palestinian Christian Cry for ReconciliationBy Naim Stifan Ateek, Orbis Books,




					www.wrmea.org
				



------------


----------



## Sixties Fan

Giovanni Matteo Quer
Kantor Center for the Study of Contemporary European Jewry, Tel-Aviv University, Tel Aviv-Yafo 69978, Israel; giovanniquer@tauex.tau.ac.il
Received: 31 May 2019; Accepted: 1 August 2019; Published: 19 August 2019


Abstract: Christian activism in the Arab–Israeli conflict and theological reflections on the Middle East have evolved around Palestinian liberation theology as a theological–political doctrine that scrutinizes Zionism, the existence of Israel and its policies, developing a biblical hermeneutics that reverses the biblical narrative, in order to portray Israel as a wicked regime that operates in the name of a fallacious primitive god and that uses false interpretations of the scriptures. This article analyzes the theological political–theological views applied to the Arab–Israeli conflict developed by Geries Khoury, Naim Ateek, and Mitri Raheb—three influential authors and activists in different Christians denominations. Besides opposing Zionism and providing arguments for the boycott of Israel, such conceptualizations go far beyond the conflict, providing theological grounds for the denial of Jewish statehood echoing old anti-Jewish accusations.


The Return of Religious Antisemitism? - MDPI​
Pages 43 to 48


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> No one discusses Israel in any Arab or European countries I have been in. Never.



And yet it's the only thing you seem to discuss consistently from a position,
and condemn as the single root of all problems in international forums.

Heck, you even bump up old threads that have nothing to do with Israel,
while trying to switch and bait every other discussion to be about Jews.
When 80% of your daily participation on this forum, and mental focus
is dedicated to a single topic  - this says a lot.

Mainly about the *importance of Israel*,
and the inconvenient realization,
contradicting your agenda.

They say, denial, ridicule,
are stages on the path
to truth.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> You spend every waking moment writing about  your victim status and demonizing Arabs.. justifying stealing land and killing those who resist. Not smart.



Because again you refuted another of your immature big claims.
instead being sincere you accuse Sixties Fan of what
you do in the very post? Is this smart?

Certainly it doesn't project any confidence
in the facts or justice of your agenda.


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> Because again you refuted another of your immature big claims.
> instead being sincere you accuse Sixties Fan of what
> you do in the very post? Is this smart?
> 
> Certainly it doesn't project any confidence
> in the facts or justice of your agenda.


I still hope for peace in Palestine. Picking at scabs doesn't help. Why not do the right thing?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> I still hope for peace in Palestine. Picking at scabs doesn't help. Why not do the right thing?


Extremist Christians and Muslims, like the ones you have read, do not wish for peace in Israel/Palestine.  They require that the Jews give up their sovereignty over what is left of their homeland, 20% of it, and return to how things were before WWI.

From Al Husseini to Abbas, to the leaders of Hamas, what they want is that 20% Islam had conquered, no matter if it was Arabs, Kurds or Turks, back into Muslim hands.

"Picking at scabs" is another one of your Christian sayings which has nothing to do with the war of Muslims and Christians on Jews.

The Arabs in the Mandate for Palestine could have accepted the Jews and their sovereign State.  Al Husseini put a stop to that.

The Arabs could have accepted the partitions of 1936 or 1947.  Their leaders, again,  could not accept any Muslim conquered land being governed by Jews.

Time and again, due to Muslim and Christian learned hatred and supremacy over the Jews, attempts at peace have been rejected by the Arab leaders.

Hamas and others make their fortunes from waring the Jews.

Arafat, Abbas and others make their fortunes waring the Jews and "attempting" to destroy Israel, while passing themselves as resisting peacefully.

We can see their peaceful resistance every Ramadan for the past 10 years of so, where Arab lives do not matter.  It is not peace they seek, but scaring the Jews into giving in, and giving up their homeland.

Which is no different than what Putin has been doing in Ukraine.

Do the right thing?  Is that a Christian saying for Jews to return to the way they were before WWI ?

Rewriting Jewish history, where the Jews are not the Jews, where there was no Jewish Temple, where there is not Jewish history at all on the Jewish homeland.


How is that the right thing?

Please, answer.

How is lying endlessly about Jewish history and the Jewish right to their homeland, the right thing to do?


What right do extremist Christians, Muslims and even Jews have to deny the Jewish People/Nation their right to be sovereign over any part of their homeland ?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Extremist Christians and Muslims, like the ones you have read, do not wish for peace in Israel/Palestine.  They require that the Jews give up their sovereignty over what is left of their homeland, 20% of it, and return to how things were before WWI.
> 
> From Al Husseini to Abbas, to the leaders of Hamas, what they want is that 20% Islam had conquered, no matter if it was Arabs, Kurds or Turks, back into Muslim hands.
> 
> "Picking at scabs" is another one of your Christian sayings which has nothing to do with the war of Muslims and Christians on Jews.
> 
> The Arabs in the Mandate for Palestine could have accepted the Jews and their sovereign State.  Al Husseini put a stop to that.
> 
> The Arabs could have accepted the partitions of 1936 or 1947.  Their leaders, again,  could not accept any Muslim conquered land being governed by Jews.
> 
> Time and again, due to Muslim and Christian learned hatred and supremacy over the Jews, attempts at peace have been rejected by the Arab leaders.
> 
> Hamas and others make their fortunes from waring the Jews.
> 
> Arafat, Abbas and others make their fortunes waring the Jews and "attempting" to destroy Israel, while passing themselves as resisting peacefully.
> 
> We can see their peaceful resistance every Ramadan for the past 10 years of so, where Arab lives do not matter.  It is not peace they seek, but scaring the Jews into giving in, and giving up their homeland.
> 
> Which is no different than what Putin has been doing in Ukraine.
> 
> Do the right thing?  Is that a Christian saying for Jews to return to the way they were before WWI ?
> 
> Rewriting Jewish history, where the Jews are not the Jews, where there was no Jewish Temple, where there is not Jewish history at all on the Jewish homeland.
> 
> 
> How is that the right thing?
> 
> Please, answer.
> 
> How is lying endlessly about Jewish history and the Jewish right to their homeland, the right thing to do?
> 
> 
> What right do extremist Christians, Muslims and even Jews have to deny the Jewish People/Nation their right to be sovereign over any part of their homeland ?


So now the Zionists blame the mufti for the Holocaust. How convenient.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> So now the Zionists blame the mufti for the Holocaust. How convenient.


Always changing the discussion, never answering anything.  Always crying, screaming for the innocence of extremist Arabs who wanted to, and did, kill Jews in order to try to stop Israel from becoming a State.

Where did I blame the Mufti for the Holocaust?

He is responsible for what happened in Iraq in 1941.
And responsible for he death of Bosnian Jews.

And, yes, he is responsible for not as many Jews being saved from being killed by the Nazis, because his violence forced the British to cut down the number of Jewish immigrants and forced too many back to Europe.


Are you going to continue to show your Christian theology education to us, instead of answering questions and accepting the facts of history?

Did you, or anyone you know, meet the Mufti at any time, that you are always so defensive of him?


He kills Jews outside of the Mandate for Palestine, in Iraq and Bosnia, and you cannot understand what he really was for and against?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Larson also discusses the work of Jennifer Kelly, a sociologist at University of California, Santa Cruz, who “studies solidarity tourism in the context of the contested lands of Gaza and the West Bank.” Kelly uses the term solidarity tourism, Larson quotes, “‘as an umbrella term for a lot of different forms of tourism: decolonial tourism, critical tourism, or political tourism. … It’s really crucial to understand that tourism facilitates colonialism and replicates colonial state practice.’” Of course, Kelly and Larson have it backwards – it is Jews who are indigenous to the land of Israel, and the re-establishment of a Jewish state in the land after 2000 years of exile was a successful act of _decolonization_.

The _Smithsonian _magazine is a face of the Smithsonian Institution, the purpose of which is to “enrich the lives of the American people,” and the Board of Regents of which includes the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court, the Vice President of the US, and six members of Congress. It should not promote a tour group that spreads falsehoods about Israel, our democratic ally and the world’s only Jewish state, and incites anti-Israel hostilities in the US.

(full article online)









						Smithsonian Magazine Promotes Anti-Israel Tour Group
					

Eyewitness Palestine promotes the falsehood that Israel is an apartheid state that engages in ethnic cleansing, introduces the participants on its trips to leaders




					www.camera.org


----------



## Mindful




----------



## rylah

surada said:


> I still hope for peace in Palestine. Picking at scabs doesn't help. Why not do the right thing?



That's why you're so afraid of dialogue?

Our problem is that  Islam has no vision for 'peace',
but through submission to the yoke of Arab imperialism.
Which is neither just, nor 'peaceful' to even Arabs themselves.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Part 1

It is becoming increasingly difficult for Zionists and pro-Israel activists to engage in dialogue, participate in panels or appear on the media to discuss issues relating to Israel.

No, not because the discourse is reaching intolerable depths of incivility or animosity, nor because of the increase in antisemitic hatred introduced into the conversation although that aspect, while central, is not new.

It is so due to the unbelievable ignorance, lack of knowledge and inability to grasp context. A minimal level of comprehension is missing.

I think that there needs to be a minimal level of knowledge of historical facts before serious intellectual intercourse can be conducted on Twitter or other digital platforms, including the “Comments” sections at student newspapers, news websites and other type-in-your-rant-and-insult locations.

Test yourself​To further that goal, I list below a few typical questions that should be asked of the participants who wish to engage in dialogue on topics of the current Arab conflict with Israel, the history of Zionism, the history of the Middle East and other issues, like Jewish world domination that occasionally creep (literally) into the exchange of opinions.

1. The name Palestine is the country in which Jesus was born. True or false?

2. Is Nablus an Arab name of a city in Palestine or a pronunciation corruption of the Latin Neapolis?

3. In 1919-20, Arab residents of the area soon to become the territory of the reconstituted Jewish national home referred to themselves as Southern Syrians and demanded they not be separated from Greater Syria. True or false?









						Entrance Exam for Engagement with Zionists, Whether Insults or Serious Debate | United with Israel
					

There needs to be a minimal level of knowledge of historical facts before serious intellectual intercourse can be conducted on Twitter or other type-in-your-rant-and-insult locations.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Part 2

4. In Ze’ev Jabotinsky’s 1923 article “The Iron Wall,” that was built of stone, iron or is it just a figure of speech?

5. In the Koran 17:1, the Prophet Muhammed was taken “to al-Masjid al- Aqsa,” the Furthest Mosque. As Muhammed died in 632 C.E., and Al-Aqsa was built later, is this a contradiction?

6. If pre-state immigration to Mandate Palestine included Jews from Yemen, Egypt, Morocco, Syria, Lebanon, Tunisia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Algeria, Sudan and Iran, why would Zionism be considered a “European movement”?

7. Avraham Shlomo Zalman Tzoref was stabbed by an Arab in Jerusalem in 1851 for repurchasing the Hurva Synagogue property and died. A) Was he Zionist? B) Was he an Arab terrorist?

8. During World War II, the leader of the Arabs of Mandate Palestine, the Mufti Amin al-Husseini, lived in Berlin and regularly broadcast pro-Nazi content, including references to a “worldwide Jewish conspiracy” that controlled the British and U.S. governments, and sponsored Soviet communism; and that “world Jewry” aimed to infiltrate and subjugate Palestine. Was the Mufti a Nazi, a Nazi collaborator or just an anti-Zionist?











						Entrance Exam for Engagement with Zionists, Whether Insults or Serious Debate | United with Israel
					

There needs to be a minimal level of knowledge of historical facts before serious intellectual intercourse can be conducted on Twitter or other type-in-your-rant-and-insult locations.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Part 3

9. Does the term “East Jerusalem” only refer to neighborhoods of Jerusalem to the east of a “West Jerusalem” or also to the south and north?

10. Abdullah I bin Al-Hussein was born in Mecca, the Hejaz, in 1881. When he arrived in the territory of Transjordan at Ma’an on Nov. 21, 1920, did he become a Transjordanian, a Jordanian or a Palestinian? Or did he remain a Hejazi?

11. UNRWA (the U.N. Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees) defines a refugee from Palestine as one who lived there from June 1, 1946, to May 15, 1948. Do you think just two years is too short or too long a period of residence in the country to qualify?

12. The message of the chanted slogan “From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free!” means: a) Palestine’s geographical boundaries are the Jordan River and the Persian Gulf? b) a final acceptance of the 1947 Partition Plan? c) Israel ceases to exist?

13. Does the 1949 Geneva Convention, Article 49, actually define “settlement activity” as “illegal” or does it read: “The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies”?










						Entrance Exam for Engagement with Zionists, Whether Insults or Serious Debate | United with Israel
					

There needs to be a minimal level of knowledge of historical facts before serious intellectual intercourse can be conducted on Twitter or other type-in-your-rant-and-insult locations.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Part 4

14. The text of the January 1919 Faisal-Weizmann Agreement reads in Article 1: “The Arab State and Palestine.” If there is an “Arab State,” is that “Palestine” a) another Arab state? b) a Jewish Zionist state? c) a Hejazi colony?

15. In 1964, when the Palestine Liberation Organization was founded, three years prior to the Six-Day War, what “Palestine” were they liberating: a) Jordan? b) the West Bank and Gaza? c) Israel?

16. Disregarding your answer to the previous question, why was an Arab Palestine not established between the years 1948 and 1967?

P.S. If you wish to text a Jewish friend or relative with this examination, it is suggested that you select any four questions and ask them at the upcoming Passover seder.










						Entrance Exam for Engagement with Zionists, Whether Insults or Serious Debate | United with Israel
					

There needs to be a minimal level of knowledge of historical facts before serious intellectual intercourse can be conducted on Twitter or other type-in-your-rant-and-insult locations.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Veteran journalist and media critic Ira Stoll consistently identifies problematic coverage in The New York Times, exposing an agenda that disparages the State of Israel and promotes dangerous messages about Jews in the diaspora.

This week, the former managing editor of The Jerusalem Postpointed out in an Algemeiner piece a truly disturbing statement published in The New York Times that seems to question basic facts related to the Jewish people and the Land of Israel.

Specifically, Stoll analyzed an article by a New York Timescorrespondent named Raja Abdulrahim in which she claims that “Israel *insists* that there has been a Jewish presence in [Judea and Samaria] for thousands of years.” She makes this statement in the context of promoting the narrative that modern Jewish towns in those areas are somehow “illegal” under “international law.”

Setting aside the fact that the so-called “illegality of these towns has been rejected by the U.S. State Department and debunked by actual legal experts like George Mason University’s Professor Eugene Kontorovich, Abdulrahim’s ignores established historical facts by implying that Jewish presence in the Land of Israel is merely a contention or the opinion of one side in the conflict.

Israel doesn’t simply “insist” that Jews lived in Judea and Samaria for thousands of years. The historical record, archeological artifacts, carbon dating, and authenticated evidence *proves* that Jews lived in the Land of Israel for thousands of years.

As CAMERA senior research analyst Gilead Ini pointed out in a tweet referenced in Stoll’s Algemeiner piece, “This is the same paper, by the way, that had questioned whether Jewish temples existed on Jerusalem’s Temple Mount,” adding that the paper was “eventually compelled to correct the piece.”

Ini continues, “It’s the same paper that told readers—as a criticism of Israel!—that ‘East Jerusalem was exclusively Arab in 1967.’ Unmentioned: It had been ‘exclusively Arab’ for a mere 19 years, only because Jews were ethnically cleansed from the area in 1948.”

Stoll adds, “[Y]ou get the strange formulation of an entire country — Israel — insisting on something, as if it’s a cranky restaurant customer or a petulant child. It’s almost like the Times is afraid of investigating the underlying facts for fear that they might disturb the newspaper’s far-left readers, or hamper the reporter’s ability to operate freely in the Palestinian Authority-controlled West Bank.”

(full article online)









						Fake History: NY Times Spreads This Dubious Statement About Jews in Israel | United with Israel
					

The New York Times exposes its own bias again with a statement about Jewish presence in the Land of Israel that questions basic historical facts.




					unitedwithisrael.org
				












						The New York Times Erases Jews. (Again.)
					

Once again, the New York Times has taken aim at Jewish history. Once again, in doing so, the paper has shown that, given the




					www.camera.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

In preparation of throwing rocks at Jews and Israeli police, Palestinian youths spent the night taking larger boulders and breaking them up to make them the ideal size for hurling and for slinging, as this video shows:

(vide online)

On the east side of the Temple Mount there are thousands of huge boulders piled up. My tour guide for my last visit in 2019, Rabbi Chaim Richman of the Temple Institute, pointed out to me that some of them are carved - meaning that they were part of ancient buildings, possibly even the Temple itself. Here's a screenshot from that visit.




The rocks that these Arab "worshippers" are destroying so they can throw them at Jews could be of inestimable archaeological value.

These photos of the rocks in preparation for throwing show at least some that had obviously been previously used for some building purpose, with 90 degree corners and smooth surfaces:







UNESCO claims to care so much about protecting heritage sites. They routinely condemn Israeli archaeologists who are extraordinarily careful with their methods of digging and preserving ancient  treasures.

Yet in the most sacred and archaeologically sensitive spot on the planet, the people who pretend to care so much about preserving cultural heritage are completely silent.

Someone should really ask UNESCO why that is.

(full article online)









						The rocks Arabs throw at police might be priceless archaeological - or sacred - artifacts
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Always changing the discussion, never answering anything.  Always crying, screaming for the innocence of extremist Arabs who wanted to, and did, kill Jews in order to try to stop Israel from becoming a State.
> 
> Where did I blame the Mufti for the Holocaust?
> 
> He is responsible for what happened in Iraq in 1941.
> And responsible for he death of Bosnian Jews.
> 
> And, yes, he is responsible for not as many Jews being saved from being killed by the Nazis, because his violence forced the British to cut down the number of Jewish immigrants and forced too many back to Europe.
> 
> 
> Are you going to continue to show your Christian theology education to us, instead of answering questions and accepting the facts of history?
> 
> Did you, or anyone you know, meet the Mufti at any time, that you are always so defensive of him?
> 
> 
> He kills Jews outside of the Mandate for Palestine, in Iraq and Bosnia, and you cannot understand what he really was for and against?


He made arrangements to save Jews by going to Spain. The Zionists stopped that.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> He made arrangements to save Jews by going to Spain. The Zionists stopped that.


And of course you do have a link to this heroic action on Al Husseini's part.

Please share.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> He made arrangements to save Jews by going to Spain. The Zionists stopped that.


Do you read, write, speak or understand Arabic?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Do you read, write, speak or understand Arabic?


Very little. Blaming the mufti is stupid. The population of Palestine doubled in 15 years with European Jews who were largely socialists. 600,000 Zionists. Do you support illegal immigration and creating refugees?


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Very little. Blaming the mufti is stupid. The population of Palestine doubled in 15 years with European Jews who were largely socialists. 600,000 Zionists. Do you support illegal immigration and creating refugees?



You allege something, show no proof.

Do you support attacks on Jews on their ancient homeland and all over the world?  

Do you support the destruction of Israel so that Islam can have back the 20% the Jews have been allowed to keep of the 100% of their homeland?

80% of the Jewish homeland is under Islamic control.

That is more than enough for Islam.

Islam which did not care between 1948 and 1967 to create a Palestinian State via the conquerors of Gaza and Judea and Samaria, Egypt and Jordan.

And since then, Islam continues to not care about a Palestinian state, only about destroying a Jewish one.

Do you support the endless destruction of Jewish archeology by Islam?

It is Ramadan.  Take a good look at what Arabs in Israel and Judea and Samaria are doing with Jewish Holy Sites, and have been doing for quite a few decades.

The amazing thing is that not ONE of this holy sites is holy to the Muslims attacking them, even though they insist that they are descended from Abraham.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Very little. Blaming the mufti is stupid. The population of Palestine doubled in 15 years with European Jews who were largely socialists. 600,000 Zionists. Do you support illegal immigration and creating refugees?


Hitler created refugees.

The British, afraid of the Arab violence, cut down on the legal immigration of Jews to the Mandate for Palestine created to rebuild the Jewish Nation.

You  have no proof of the accusation that most Jews from Europe were socialists, whatever that means.

Hertzl and others Legally acquired the right to rebuild the Jewish Nation ON the Jewish Homeland.

Thousands of Arabs illegally immigrated to the Mandate 
of Palestine, thanks to the Arab leadership which did not want Jews to be allowed to return to their ancient homeland, and did not want the State of Israel to come to be. And thanks to the British who looked away.


Are you clear about that part of history, now?


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Hitler created refugees.
> 
> The British, afraid of the Arab violence, cut down on the legal immigration of Jews to the Mandate for Palestine created to rebuild the Jewish Nation.
> 
> You  have no proof of the accusation that most Jews from Europe were socialists, whatever that means.
> 
> Hertzl and others Legally acquired the right to rebuild the Jewish Nation ON the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> Thousands of Arabs illegally immigrated to the Mandate
> of Palestine, thanks to the Arab leadership which did not want Jews to be allowed to return to their ancient homeland, and did not want the State of Israel to come to be. And thanks to the British who looked away.
> 
> 
> Are you clear about that part of history, now?


Yes they were socialists and Bolsheviks.


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## surada

__





						The Palestine Communist Party 1919 - 1948 on JSTOR
					

Joel Beinen, The Palestine Communist Party 1919 - 1948, MERIP Reports, No. 55 (Mar., 1977), pp. 3-17




					www.jstor.org


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## Indeependent

surada said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestine Communist Party 1919 - 1948 on JSTOR
> 
> 
> Joel Beinen, The Palestine Communist Party 1919 - 1948, MERIP Reports, No. 55 (Mar., 1977), pp. 3-17
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jstor.org


The Kibbutz was the only true instance of Communism in history.
Everybody did what they could and everybody got what they needed.
Only Jews could do that without guns or threats of imprisonment.
Your jealousy is embarrassing.


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## surada

Indeependent said:


> The Kibbutz was the only true instance of Communism in history.
> Everybody did what they could and everybody got what they needed.
> Only Jews could do that without guns or threats of imprisonment.
> Your jealousy is embarrassing.







__





						Socialist Workers Party (Mandatory Palestine) - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


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## Sixties Fan

Indeependent said:


> The Kibbutz was the only true instance of Communism in history.
> Everybody did what they could and everybody got what they needed.
> Only Jews could do that without guns or threats of imprisonment.
> Your jealousy is embarrassing.


It is not jealousy.  It is pure ignorance.

The love for the Arab culture keeps her blind.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Socialist Workers Party (Mandatory Palestine) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org


Why are you so worried about a movement, socialism, which only lasted two years?

Israel is a Democracy, always has been.  It rejected the USSR's request that it become a Communist State.

Ask any Arab or Druze, and others, who are citizens of Israel and love their democratic country.


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## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> Yes they were socialists and Bolsheviks.



That's awful!!!!

So what?


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## Sixties Fan

We noted that al Aqsa is the name of a mosque at the site – not the title of the entire site – and that in contrast to the inaccurate claim in the report, Jews do not ‘revere’ al Aqsa: for Jews the holy site is Temple Mount.

On April 6th we received a reply from BBC Complaints informing us that it would take more time to address our complaint. On April 12th we received a response from the BBC News website:

“Thank you for getting in touch about our article _Arrests at pro-Palestinian Leicester drone factory protest._

You’re quite right and we have removed “al-Aqsa” from the sentence.

Please accept our apologies for the oversight and thank you for bringing this to our attention.”

The amended paragraph now refers to:

“…a holy site revered by both Muslims and Jews.”

However, our complaint also drew attention to the fact that the same inaccuracy appeared in a previous report dating from August 2021. Despite acknowledging the error, the BBC News website has yet to correct that earlier report.











						Following CAMERA UK complaint, BBC removes ‘Jews revere al Aqsa’ claim
					

Last month we noted that a report by BBC East Midlands which appeared on the BBC News website’s ‘Leicester’ page on March 28th included the claim that al




					camera-uk.org


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## surada

__





						Labor Zionism - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Labor Zionism - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> en.m.wikipedia.org



[Arabs can be Communists]

*Maher Al-Sharif, Al-Shuyu‘iyun wa Qadaya al-Nidal al-Watani al-Rahin [The Communists and Issues in the Current National Struggle] (Damascus: Center for Socialist Research and Study in the Arab World, 1988).*

The role of the Palestinian Communist Party (PCP) is one of the most important and least understood aspects of the intifada. When a member of the PCP Political Bureau was elected to a seat on the PLO Executive Committee at the 18th Palestine National Council (PNC) in April 1987, many interpreted it as a sign of Moscow’s role in the process of reuniting the Palestinian factions. But that is an insufficient explanation for the double “cultural revolution” this opening represents.

From the very beginning the PCP has supported the creation of a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza alongside the state of Israel — strictly in accordance with the line of the international communist movement in support of the November 1947 United Nations partition plan. Moreover, the PCP has never been part of the consensus on armed struggle that served as the basis for revitalizing the PLO after 1967. For the first time, a purely political organization has joined the PLO Executive Committee on equal terms with the fada’in movements. Anyone familiar with the history of the PLO will appreciate the significance of this turning point. By overlooking or encompassing this double deviation, the PNC was recognizing the position the communists have earned in the national struggle.

The present situation is all the more remarkable when considered in the context of the Arab communist movement as a whole, which is experiencing its most serious crisis since the end of World War II. Never have the Arab communist parties been as fragmented or their influence so minimal as now. The Palestinian exception clearly merits a book. Maher al-Sharif, the author of several works on communism in pre-1948 Palestine and himself a member of the PCP, has written a study that fills the gap, although it concentrates primarily on the history of ideas as distinct from the political history. His stated purpose is to present the various positions of the party on the essential questions of the Palestinian struggle.

(Full article online )





__





						Palestinian Communists and the Intifada - MERIP
					

Maher Al-Sharif, Al-Shuyu‘iyun wa Qadaya al-Nidal al-Watani al-Rahin [The Communists and Issues in the Current National Struggle] (Damascus: Center for Socialist Research and Study in the Arab World, 1988). The role of the Palestinian Communist Party (PCP) is one of the most important and least...




					merip.org


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Labor Zionism - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org


[ Arabs can be Nazi sympathizers and Nazis themselves ]

During the war, the Nazi regime found many willing collaboratorsthroughout the world who sought to advance their own political goals and extend Axis influence. A host of exiled political leaders—such as Indian nationalist Subhas Chandra Bose, Syrian guerilla rebel Fawzi al-Qawuqji, former Iraqi prime minister Rashid 'Ali al-Kailani, and former Mufti of Jerusalem Hajj Amin al-Husayni (Arab nationalist and prominent Muslim religious leader)—escaped to Berlin, where they broadcast appeals to their home countries in order to foment unrest, sabotage, and insurrection against the Allies. In exile in Europe from 1941 to 1945, al-Husayni's status was that of a prominent individual anti-Jewish Arab and Muslim leader.

Without any institutional basis for authority over Arabs anywhere in the Middle East, al-Husayni sought public recognition from the Axis powers of his status as leader of a proposed Arab nation. He also sought public approval from the Axis powers for an independent Arab state or federation to "remove" or "eliminate" the proposed Jewish homeland in Palestine. He made this declaration a condition for the awaited general uprising in the Arab world. The Germans, and Hitler in particular, repeatedly denied al-Husayni's request for legitimization. They were reluctant to initiate unnecessary disputes with Italy or Vichy France, harbored doubts about the extent of al-Husayni's actual authority in the Arab world, and had reservations about making long-term statements regarding areas of the world beyond the reach of German arms. When he received al-Husayni on November 28, 1941, a meeting covered in the German press, Hitler was sympathetic, but declined to give al-Husayni the public declaration of support that he sought. Despite Hitler's response, al-Husayni still collaborated with Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy in several ways. He broadcast anti-Allied and anti-Jewish propaganda by radio to the Arab world and to Muslim communities under German control or influence. He sought to inspire and to indoctrinate Muslim men to serve in Axis military and auxiliary units. Even after he realized that the Germans would not give him what he sought and intended to use his Muslim recruits without regard to his advice, al-Husayni continued to work with both Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany until 1945. The Germans provided shelter and funds to al-Husayni and used him wherever it seemed productive, but they refused to make any commitments about the future of the Arab world, or about his position in that world. The Germans set up al-Husayni comfortably, even lavishly. He used a villa in Berlin-Zehlendorf for his office and residence and received a generous monthly stipend for expenses related to these quarters, his politics, and his entertainment.


(full article online)






						Hajj Amin al-Husayni: Wartime Propagandist
					

Former Mufti of Jerusalem Hajj Amin al-Husayni was an exiled political leader who sought an alliance with the Axis Powers. Learn about his wartime propaganda efforts.




					encyclopedia.ushmm.org


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Labor Zionism - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org




[Any Questions? ]


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> [Any Questions? ]


This is a lie.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Labor Zionism - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org




On *August 14, 2021*, Palestinians from the village of Bayta held a demonstration near the outpost of Eviatar in Samaria. The outpost was evacuated in July 2021, but as part of the agreement with the Israeli government, the land is still controlled by the IDF, an issue which is currently being examined by the Civilian Authority. During they demonstration they ignited rags soaked in kerosene forming a swastika inside a Magen David.









*Right: Nazi swastika flag in Bayt Umar (social networks, September 25, 2021). Left: Nazi swastika flag on the outskirts of Bayt Umar (picture by Avraham Weiss for Tazpit News Agency, July 6, 2014).*


It was a display planed in advance by the Palestinians, who prepared it, brought it to the location of the demonstration and set it on fire, part of the night harassment units’ activities to protest the establishment of the outpost. *The Palestinian Authority (PA) and Fatah support such demonstrations and always deliberately ignored such displays*. Videos of the display and the demonstrators, including children, holding torches, were uploaded to the social networks and broadcast by Hamas’ al-Quds TV.
On *September 25, 2021*, Israeli soldiers uploaded a video to the social networks showing a Nazi flag hanging from the power lines on the outskirts of the Palestinian village of Bayt Umar, near Hebron. Several hours later an IDF force arrived and shot the flag down. A Nazi flag was also flown in Bayt Umar in July 2014.
On *June 29, 2021*, a Palestinian child attending a Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) military training camp (the Palestinian version of summer camp) in the Gaza Strip was interviewed for the organization’s al-Quds al-Yawm TV station. To the Jews he said, “*We asked Hitler why he left some of you alive*. He did it to show how wicked you are. We will come for you from under the ground to spread terror in your hearts and above the ground we will mangle your bodies with our rockets. Go run to your shelters, you mice, you sons of Jewish women.”





*Camper at a PIJ training camp (MEMRI, June 29, 2021).*​









						Nazism in Palestinian society and the use of Nazi symbols - The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center
					

On August 14, 2021, Palestinians from the village of Bayta held a demonstration near the outpost of Eviatar in Samaria. The outpost was evacuated in July 2021, but as part of the agreement with the Israeli government, the land is still controlled by the IDF, an issue which is currently being...




					www.terrorism-info.org.il
				





[ Any Questions? ]


----------



## surada

1941 Iraqi coup d'état - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> 1941 Iraqi coup d'état - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org



It has what to do with Zionism and Israel?


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Because a thief whose main concept of Judaism comes from his third grade Hebrew teacher is obviously an expert in theology. Even if he claims in the fact-challenged NYT article that the Hebrew _chumash _is the Old Testament - something any bright eight year old in any yeshiva knows is not true.

The illustration of the NYT article says it all: it depicts (the Jewish) God as a combination of Zeus and Godzilla, holding his lightning bolt as he wantonly terrorizes innocents.






Meanwhile, Haaretz publishes Dr. Ofri Ilany - a professor - who says that the Exodus story is really a colonialist myth.  Instead of being upset over God's treatment of Egyptians, Ilany is upset at the Jews' treatment of Canaanites. 

The brilliant professor says that the Torah, which is literally the basis for all Western morality, falls short of his moral standards:

(full article online)









						Haaretz and the NY Times agree: Passover is the time to say that Judaism is awful
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## rylah

Here's the thing, removing ancient pillars,
and taking that mosque apart for the stones...

doesn't this look a preparation of the location,
rather opposite of their openly stated intentions?

Maybe can yet consciously admit, but they too want the renovation.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Why do Palestinians destroy their "Ancient Palestine" heritage?  Or is it Palestinian heritage at all? ]


Last week I noted that Palestinians were breaking rocks on the Temple Mount in preparation for throwing them at Israeli police and Jews. I noted that there are some artifacts on the Temple Mount, sitting out in the sun, that look like they were part of ancient structures, and wondering whether Palestinians use those.

Now we know - they do.

Palestinians took large rocks from the east side of the Temple Mount to build obstacles where Jews circumnavigate the site, and Eli Kohn published a video showing what it looked like Tuesday morning.

I saw this in the video:





This is from a column of an old, perhaps ancient, building.

Where is UNESCO? Where are the people who claim Israel targets "Palestinian archaeology"? Here we see direct evidence of Palestinians destroying cultural objects - and no one gives a damn.

So I ranted on video about that as well as a MEMRI video where a top aide of Mahmoud Abbas contradicts himself, lies about Jews, lies about history, and - again - no one cares.









						EoZTV: A rant about Palestinian and world hypoocrisy
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

Jordan has fully backed not only the desecration of Al Aqsa by Palestinians, but also the antisemitic incitement and lies that accompany it.

From Jordan's Al Anbat News as well as Ammon News, credited to the official Jordanian Petra news agency, here are excerpts of a long article filled with antisemitic lies and incitement by interviewing "experts."




> Professor of Political Science at Hebron University, Dr. Imad Al-Bishtawi, in an interview with Petra via Messenger, confirms that the Israeli attacks are getting fiercer in the month of Ramadan, against the background of Israeli allegations and *myths that have no basis in order to reproduce the history of the Palestinian place according to the biblical vision that hates Arabs and Muslims. *
> 
> The Israelis claim that there is a structure under the Al-Aqsa Mosque, which calls for a unified Arab and Islamic stance regarding this * ugly Talmudic nonsense*, according to Al-Bishtawi.
> 
> He added, “Israel cannot make peace in its true objective sense, as *it wants Arab and Islamic surrender with its narrative that says the existence of the temple, which therefore means the demolition of the Al-Aqsa Mosque and the destruction of history from its roots*, especially since Al-Aqsa is the cornerstone of the concept of Palestine’s existence and the escalation of its resistance to sweeping the occupation and defeating its project.” .
> 
> For his part, the Secretary-General of the Jordanian Academic Campaign to Support the Rights of the Palestinian People, Dr. Muhammad Al-Masalha, said that what is happening in Al-Aqsa is a Zionist conspiracy linked to the Jewish thought that wants to seize the sanctities. Al-Masalha, head of the Parliamentary Studies Center (Damia), said that they call the Al-Aqsa area the Temple Mount, which is evidence that they want to own this mosque and the mountain on which it resides, which means that they link the political dimension with the religious dimension.* They always talk about the Temple Mount and the Kingdom of Solomon and other superstitions, which is evidence of linking their illusions to this place, in an effort to strip the historical Arab identity of the place*.
> 
> Political analyst and specialist in the Palestinian issue, Dr. Ahmed Said Nofal, said that the Israeli incursions into Al-Aqsa Mosque, especially during the month of Ramadan, carry in their meanings a disregard for the feelings of Arabs, Muslims and the Palestinian people who are suffering horrors under the Zionist occupation. Nofal, a professor of political science, pointed out that what is happening at Al-Aqsa is part of a series of *official Israeli attacks on Islamic and Christian sanctities*, and in order to understand the whole picture, not fragmented, the Zionist presence in Palestine is not directed against Al-Aqsa or the Church of the Resurrection only, but is *against the Palestinian presence as a whole and against the Arab existence and even against the Islamic existence*, by just talking about the attacks on the sanctity of prayer and worshippers, pointing out that the truth is that Palestine is occupied and Israel is an actual ugly embodiment of the most hateful forms of occupation that will only be removed by continuous confrontation.
> 
> The Secretary-General of the Royal Committee for Jerusalem Affairs, Abdullah Kanaan, indicates that the Israeli occupation continues its colonial approach in the city of Jerusalem with the aim of Judaizing it and *expelling its Arab people, and based on the false mythological Talmudic narrative, which falsely says that the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque/Al-Haram Al-Sharif is the alleged Temple Mount*.
> 
> Extremist groups (Temple organizations), and with the protection of the Israeli occupation forces, repeatedly stormed the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque and constantly endeavored to establish Talmudic rituals in the courtyards of the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque,* in addition to the rituals they conduct at Al-Buraq Wall (the western wall) of the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque. *
> 
> He said that their false pretext for storming Al-Aqsa Mosque is the celebration of the Jewish religious holidays, which have become a dangerous date to justify the attack on Al-Aqsa Mosque and the Islamic and Christian sanctities in Jerusalem, especially what accompanies these Jewish holidays in terms of restrictions on Jerusalemites and the brutal attack on worshipers and those who stationed in Al-Aqsa.
> 
> The Royal Committee for Jerusalem Affairs confirms that the true, non-false history, facts and archaeological evidence, including research conducted by Western and Jewish scholars In addition to the international legal resolutions, explicitly demonstrate the Arabism of the city of Jerusalem, the Islamicness of the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque, and the absence of any relationship for the Jews with it.



Keep in mind that Jordan's own Waqf guards were the only people supposed to be maintaining order on Al Aqsa before during the riots - and they didn't do a thing to stop Palestinians from preparing and stockpiling rocks and fireworks. In al probability, they facilitated the violent rioting.

When Jordanian officials appeal for "calm," they mean they want to physically bar Jews and Israelis from  Judaism's holiest site. 











						Let's drop the pretense that Jordan is moderate and wants peace. It is a major and official driver of antisemitic incitement.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## rylah




----------



## Mindful

There’s a new Yiddish trio in town! Their name is The Mamales, and they just premiered a new and incredibly delightful video for a catchy cover of the Yiddish classic “Abi Gezunt.” The video was filmed entirely in New York City, and sees the three professional singers go from frumpy clown-like frolicking (and rollerblading!) in the park to seductive singing in their evening wear at a local bar.

“When I heard the Barry Sister’s cover of ‘Abi Gezunt,’ my first thought was how hot is this?! I think a lot of Jewish people my age associate Yiddish with their grandparents, but it is so sexy,” Maya Jacobson, one of the members of the trio, tells Kveller over e-mail.

The Mamales are not the first all-female group to try to make Yiddish sexy again. Israeli duo Vibers have filmed two incredibly seductive technicolor videos to Yiddish classics — “Bei Mir Bitsu Shein” and “Chiribim Chiribom.” After watching these three videos, I can safely say that the sultry Yiddish revival is happening, and it is glorious.









						This New Yiddish Music Video Is a Delight – Kveller
					

There’s a new Yiddish trio in town! Their name is The Mamales, and they just premiered a new and incredibly delightful video for a catchy cover of the Yiddish classic “Abi Gezunt.” The video was filmed entirely in New York City, and sees the three professional singers go from frumpy clown-like...




					www.kveller.com


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## Sixties Fan

National Public Radio takes a nice look at the issue of relocating the US embassy to Jerusalem. Unfortunately, Daniel Estrin’s dispatch assumes Jewish ties to eastern Jerusalem only began in 1967.



> The western part of Jerusalem is almost entirely Jewish. The eastern part of the city was entirely Arab when Israel captured it in the 1967 Arab-Israeli war. Many Israeli Jews have moved into the eastern part of the city, and Israel claims all of Jerusalem as its capital, though no other country recognizes this.


Talk about twisted context.

Jerusalem was a unified city. There were no distinctions between “East” and “West” Jerusalem until Jordan captured the city’s eastern neighborhoods and Old City. The only reason it was “entirely Arab” when Israel reunified the Jerusalem during the Six-Day War was because the Jordanians expelled the Jews from its jurisdiction, systematically destroyed synagogues, and generally made its half of the city _judenfrei_.

In this video, survivors of the 1948 war shared their stories of living in eastern Jerusalem and their expulsion.

Memo to NPR: The 19 years that Jerusalem was divided are a mere blip in the city’s and Jewish people’s thousands of years of history.

We contacted NPR about a clarification. Watch this space.










						Jewish Ties to Eastern Jerusalem Didn't Begin in 1967 | Honest Reporting
					

National Public Radio takes a nice look at the issue of relocating the US embassy to Jerusalem. Unfortunately, Daniel Estrin's dispatch assumes Jewish




					honestreporting.com


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## Sixties Fan

[ Plenty of Jewish history to be found.  No Palestinian history anywhere ]​​​The House of David Victory Stone – 1993​Also known as the Tel Dan Stele, this slab of stone that was found in northern Israel in 1993 provides proof of Israel’s most famous ruler. The Aramaic inscription carved into it offers the first evidence of King David’s dynasty outside of Biblical sources.

It has been dated to the eighth or ninth century BCE and appears to recount the victory of King Hazael of Aram-Damascus, Syria, over King Joram of Israel and King Ahaziah of the House of David. This account differs from the Book of Kings, which states Jehu killed Joram and Ahaziah before taking the Israeli throne. The fragmented inscription reads:



> _[…] and cut […] my father went up [against him when] he fought at […] And my father lay down, he went to his [ancestors]. And the king of Irael entered previously in my father’s land. [And] Hadad made me king. And Hadad went in front of me, [and] I departed from [the] seven […]s of my kingdom, and I slew [seve]nty kings, who harnessed thou[sands of cha]riots and thousands of horsemen (or: horses). [I killed Jeho]ram son of [Ahab] king of Israel, and  killed [Ahaz]iahu son of [Jehoram kin]g of theHouse of David. And I set [their towns into ruins and turned] their land into [desolation …] other [… and Jehu ru]led over Is[rael … and I laid] siege upon […]”
> _


_
Providing undisputed evidence of the rule of David, the Tel Dan Stele is perhaps the most important relic of Biblical significance to have ever been found in the Jewish state.







The “House of David” Inscribed on a Victory Stone (photo: Israel Antiquities Authority)
King Solomon’s Wall – 2010​A three-month excavation in Israel’s capital Jerusalem, just over a decade ago, uncovered a section of a wall that is believed to date from the tenth century BCE. Influential archaeologist Dr. Eilat Mazar of Jerusalem’s Hebrew University led the dig in a location known as the Ophel, close to the Temple Mount. The wall, which is an impressive 70 meters long and six meters high, appears to confirm the Book of the Kings’ account of King Solomon building a huge defensive barrier in Jerusalem (1 Kings 3:1).

“We don’t have many kings during the tenth century that could have built such a structure, basically just David and Solomon,” Dr. Mazar said in 2010. “This is the first time that a structure from that time has been found that may correlate with written descriptions of Solomon’s building in Jerusalem.” Other relics found at the site appear to support her assertion. They included figurines of women that symbolize fertility, as well as jar handles inscribed with the message “to the king” and seals that bear Hebrew names.

Hezekiah’s Tunnel – 1867​Charles Warren discovered Hezekiah’s Tunnel in 1867, after being sent to conduct excavations close to the Temple Mount. The tunnel, which was constructed around the eighth century BCE, formed part of a system used to transport water from the Gihon Spring to within the city’s walls. Its discovery also confirms the Biblical account of Hezekiah preparing the city for a siege led by Assyrians after the King of Judah offended Assyrian King Sennacherib. An inscription found on the tunnel wall confirms this feat of engineering was made possible by two teams using axes, who dug through rock and gravel from opposite ends until they eventually met in the middle.

(full article online)









						Israeli Archaeological Treasures Align With Hebrew Bible Accounts | Honest Reporting
					

Nothing helps us better understand the lives of the people who have lived in Israel than the archaeological artifacts that are dug up here. The study of




					honestreporting.com
				



_


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## Sixties Fan

Jerusalem’s Old City​Jerusalem’s Old City features some of the most important and ancient holy sites in the world — all enclosed within one square kilometer. Pilgrims from all over the world pass through the Old City walls (built during the reign of Suleiman the Magnificent) to visit the Temple Mount and its mosques (the iconic Dome  of the Rock and Al-Aqsa Mosque), the Western Wall and the Church of the Holy Sepulcher.

UNESCO’s World Heritage designation doesn’t associate Jerusalem with Israel or the Palestinian Authority. Further angering Israel, the Old City was also placed on UNESCO’s list of Endangered World Heritage Sites.

More information at UNESCO and the Jerusalem Municipality.






Jerusalem Old City


Related reading: Jewish Ties to the Temple Mount: What’s the Story?

Hebron’s Old Town​Hebron is one of the world’s oldest cities and the most-visited site in the Old City is the Tomb of the Patriarchs, the burial place of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and their wives and is holy to Jews, Christians and Moslems. In 2017, UNESCO raised a firestorm of controversy and anger in Israel when it labeled Hebron’s Old City as an endangered Palestinian heritage site and ignored Jewish ties to the holy spot. It too is on UNESCO’s list of endangered World Heritage sites.

More information at UNESCO, the Israeli Ministry of Tourism and the Chamber of Commerce and Industry of Hebron.

Masada​This  fortress complex built by Herod the Great sits atop a rock plateau some 450 meters above the Judean Desert and Dead Sea. Towards the end of the Jewish Revolt, besieged by the Roman Army, more than 900 Jews committed mass suicide, preferring to die free than to live as slaves.

Today, tourists can hike up Masada or take a cable car.

(full article online)









						A Guide to Israel's UNESCO World Heritage Sites | Honest Reporting
					

Israel boasts an array of  world heritage sites for anyone looking for an experience in the dimensions of nature, history or religion.




					honestreporting.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

The Orthodox Patriarchate issued a statement condemning the Israeli police for limiting visitors to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre on Holy Saturday:




> The Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem condemned the practices of the Israeli police in the Old City of Jerusalem during the Holy Fire Saturday celebrations.
> 
> The Patriarchate said in a statement that the police, deprived thousands of Christians of their natural right to worship freely, through military checkpoints it had deployed in the vicinity of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in the form of security cordons, all the way from the gates of the old city leading to the church. These barriers prevented worshipers and those celebrating the feast from reaching the church of the Holy Sepulchre.



So let's look at how the ceremony was done ninety years ago, and the role of the police at that time, from the Enquirer and Evening News of Battle Creek, MI, March 27, 1932:






There were lots of police around Jerusalem in 1932 for Easter week. 







No one complained that their presence, or their job to maintain order and peace, was violating anyone's religious rights. And, just like this year, police presence was partially a response to recent violent Muslim riots.

What about worshipping freely at the Church on Holy Saturday? Not, not exactly freely - it used to cost a lot of money to get a seat.




And even with the tickets, the church was overcrowded and dangerous.

And guess who enforced limits on who can enter the Church? That's right - *the police!*




Later on, the writer says that the smoke from the candles lit by the fire nearly suffocated him in the poorly-ventilated church, further indication that by today's standards, it was overcrowded and dangerous. Allowing unlimited attendees, as the Church now demands, is irresponsible.

Israeli police this year did not act very differently than the Palestine police did in 1932. It is certain that similar restrictions were in place every year, although there was more concern this year in Israel after the Meron disaster. 

(full article online)









						Orthodox Patriarchate complains about Israeli police presence on Holy Saturday. Let's see how it was in 1932.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

On April 12, 1945, General Dwight Eisenhower visited Ohrdruf, a subcamp of Buchenwald. Upon his return to the United States, he emphasized the importance of spreading the truth about the Holocaust:



> I made the visit deliberately, in order to be in a position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to propaganda.



The words of Eisenhower still ring true 77 years later. In February 2022, Sheffield Hallam University in England reinstated Shahd Abusalama, an associate lecturer, after she defended a student’s poster that said: “Stop the Palestinian Holocaust.”

On Twitter, Abusalama wrote that she understood why the student used the term Holocaust in reference to Israel’s strikes in Gaza. Never mind the fact that Israel’s military actions in Gaza are in response to indiscriminate rocket fire from Hamas or that efforts are made to minimize civilian casualties through precision strikes and roof-knocking.

The world ingrained the phrase “never forget” into our collective psyche to prevent another Holocaust from occurring. Yet, has the Holocaust lost its significance? On social media and college campuses, anti-Zionists have made it a habit to compare the plight of Palestinians with the Holocaust. Historian — and now Biden administration envoy — Deborah Lipstadt describes such comparisons between Jews in Israel and Nazis as a form of “soft-core denial,” also known as Holocaust inversion.

From 1939 to 1945, more than six million Jews were murdered by the Nazi regime and their collaborators. Throughout Europe, Jews were dehumanized, sent to concentration camps and death camps, and murdered in gas chambers and by other horrific means. However, anti-Israel activists on college campuses contend there is a “Palestinian Holocaust.” They accuse Israel of committing genocide and ethnic cleansing against the Palestinians ever since the founding of the Jewish state.

This is blatantly false.

I.F. Stone, a Zionist advocate and left-wing political journalist of the 1940s, describes a particularly horrifying account of how several Nazi collaborators who were part of pro-Nazi Arab military units arrived in Palestine to battle the newly founded Jewish state. About the Arab refugees who fled from the fighting, Stone states, “While the Arab guerrillas were moving in, the Arab civilian population was moving out.” It is ironic that Shabtai Levy, the mayor of Haifa, pleaded with Arab leaders to remain in their homes. They told Levy that the Arab Higher Committee, chaired by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and Nazi collaborator Haj Amin al-Husseini, ordered them to leave.

Referring to the “Nakba,” anti-Zionists falsely claim that over 700,000 Palestinians have been displaced from their homes since the establishment of the Jewish state. But as stated above, that distorts the history and also ignores the similar number of Jews who were expelled from Arab lands just for the crime of being Jewish, and were forced to come to Israel.

Furthermore, the Palestinian population has grown significantly since 1948. Anyone with a modicum of critical reasoning ability can see that the claim of ethnic cleansing or genocide against the Palestinians is just absurd.

In 2020, the Arab population in Israel comprised 1.96 million people, or 21.1% of the population, compared with 20.2 percent in 2008. Since 1960, the Palestinian population has increased by 2.65% every year. Palestinians who have Israeli citizenship also have the same rights as all Israelis, and serve in the Knesset, the Supreme Court, the IDF, and every facet of public and private life.

Somehow, Jews were never afforded any of those privileges by the Nazis.

Despite this factual evidence, antisemitic groups like SJP, have made it common practice to fabricate facts about the Holocaust on social media, and even to harassHolocaust survivors.

Furthermore, in examining Palestinian leadership during World War II, it is distressing to learn that the Palestinians collaborated with the Nazis.

Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, participated in Hitler’s vision to annihilate the Jewish people. He encouraged Muslim recruits to join the SS regiments in the Balkans, promoted Nazi propaganda in the Arab world, and even toured death camps in Europe and met with Adolf Hitler.

In 2021, the Palestinian leadership recognized the Grand Mufti as a role model, naming schools after him and honoring him on social media. With 63% of millennials and Gen Z’ers in the United States lacking the basic knowledge that six million Jews were murdered in the Holocaust, it could be easy for anti-Israel groups to persuade these youths to deny the Holocaust or the lie that the same thing is happening to Palestinians.

(full article online)









						Holocaust Inversion: Unmasking the False Comparisons of Palestinians to the Holocaust
					

The sign “Arbeit macht frei” (Work makes you free) is pictured at the main gate of the former German Nazi …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Jordan has fully backed not only the desecration of Al Aqsa by Palestinians, but also the antisemitic incitement and lies that accompany it.
> 
> From Jordan's Al Anbat News as well as Ammon News, credited to the official Jordanian Petra news agency, here are excerpts of a long article filled with antisemitic lies and incitement by interviewing "experts."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that Jordan's own Waqf guards were the only people supposed to be maintaining order on Al Aqsa before during the riots - and they didn't do a thing to stop Palestinians from preparing and stockpiling rocks and fireworks. In al probability, they facilitated the violent rioting.
> 
> When Jordanian officials appeal for "calm," they mean they want to physically bar Jews and Israelis from  Judaism's holiest site.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's drop the pretense that Jordan is moderate and wants peace. It is a major and official driver of antisemitic incitement.
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com


The Haram Al Shariff is 1300 years old. Why not leave it alone?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> National Public Radio takes a nice look at the issue of relocating the US embassy to Jerusalem. Unfortunately, Daniel Estrin’s dispatch assumes Jewish ties to eastern Jerusalem only began in 1967.
> 
> 
> Talk about twisted context.
> 
> Jerusalem was a unified city. There were no distinctions between “East” and “West” Jerusalem until Jordan captured the city’s eastern neighborhoods and Old City. The only reason it was “entirely Arab” when Israel reunified the Jerusalem during the Six-Day War was because the Jordanians expelled the Jews from its jurisdiction, systematically destroyed synagogues, and generally made its half of the city _judenfrei_.
> 
> In this video, survivors of the 1948 war shared their stories of living in eastern Jerusalem and their expulsion.
> 
> Memo to NPR: The 19 years that Jerusalem was divided are a mere blip in the city’s and Jewish people’s thousands of years of history.
> 
> We contacted NPR about a clarification. Watch this space.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Ties to Eastern Jerusalem Didn't Begin in 1967 | Honest Reporting
> 
> 
> National Public Radio takes a nice look at the issue of relocating the US embassy to Jerusalem. Unfortunately, Daniel Estrin's dispatch assumes Jewish
> 
> 
> 
> 
> honestreporting.com


The Arab quarter is large and very, very old.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> On April 12, 1945, General Dwight Eisenhower visited Ohrdruf, a subcamp of Buchenwald. Upon his return to the United States, he emphasized the importance of spreading the truth about the Holocaust:
> 
> 
> 
> The words of Eisenhower still ring true 77 years later. In February 2022, Sheffield Hallam University in England reinstated Shahd Abusalama, an associate lecturer, after she defended a student’s poster that said: “Stop the Palestinian Holocaust.”
> 
> On Twitter, Abusalama wrote that she understood why the student used the term Holocaust in reference to Israel’s strikes in Gaza. Never mind the fact that Israel’s military actions in Gaza are in response to indiscriminate rocket fire from Hamas or that efforts are made to minimize civilian casualties through precision strikes and roof-knocking.
> 
> The world ingrained the phrase “never forget” into our collective psyche to prevent another Holocaust from occurring. Yet, has the Holocaust lost its significance? On social media and college campuses, anti-Zionists have made it a habit to compare the plight of Palestinians with the Holocaust. Historian — and now Biden administration envoy — Deborah Lipstadt describes such comparisons between Jews in Israel and Nazis as a form of “soft-core denial,” also known as Holocaust inversion.
> 
> From 1939 to 1945, more than six million Jews were murdered by the Nazi regime and their collaborators. Throughout Europe, Jews were dehumanized, sent to concentration camps and death camps, and murdered in gas chambers and by other horrific means. However, anti-Israel activists on college campuses contend there is a “Palestinian Holocaust.” They accuse Israel of committing genocide and ethnic cleansing against the Palestinians ever since the founding of the Jewish state.
> 
> This is blatantly false.
> 
> I.F. Stone, a Zionist advocate and left-wing political journalist of the 1940s, describes a particularly horrifying account of how several Nazi collaborators who were part of pro-Nazi Arab military units arrived in Palestine to battle the newly founded Jewish state. About the Arab refugees who fled from the fighting, Stone states, “While the Arab guerrillas were moving in, the Arab civilian population was moving out.” It is ironic that Shabtai Levy, the mayor of Haifa, pleaded with Arab leaders to remain in their homes. They told Levy that the Arab Higher Committee, chaired by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and Nazi collaborator Haj Amin al-Husseini, ordered them to leave.
> 
> Referring to the “Nakba,” anti-Zionists falsely claim that over 700,000 Palestinians have been displaced from their homes since the establishment of the Jewish state. But as stated above, that distorts the history and also ignores the similar number of Jews who were expelled from Arab lands just for the crime of being Jewish, and were forced to come to Israel.
> 
> Furthermore, the Palestinian population has grown significantly since 1948. Anyone with a modicum of critical reasoning ability can see that the claim of ethnic cleansing or genocide against the Palestinians is just absurd.
> 
> In 2020, the Arab population in Israel comprised 1.96 million people, or 21.1% of the population, compared with 20.2 percent in 2008. Since 1960, the Palestinian population has increased by 2.65% every year. Palestinians who have Israeli citizenship also have the same rights as all Israelis, and serve in the Knesset, the Supreme Court, the IDF, and every facet of public and private life.
> 
> Somehow, Jews were never afforded any of those privileges by the Nazis.
> 
> Despite this factual evidence, antisemitic groups like SJP, have made it common practice to fabricate facts about the Holocaust on social media, and even to harassHolocaust survivors.
> 
> Furthermore, in examining Palestinian leadership during World War II, it is distressing to learn that the Palestinians collaborated with the Nazis.
> 
> Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, participated in Hitler’s vision to annihilate the Jewish people. He encouraged Muslim recruits to join the SS regiments in the Balkans, promoted Nazi propaganda in the Arab world, and even toured death camps in Europe and met with Adolf Hitler.
> 
> In 2021, the Palestinian leadership recognized the Grand Mufti as a role model, naming schools after him and honoring him on social media. With 63% of millennials and Gen Z’ers in the United States lacking the basic knowledge that six million Jews were murdered in the Holocaust, it could be easy for anti-Israel groups to persuade these youths to deny the Holocaust or the lie that the same thing is happening to Palestinians.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holocaust Inversion: Unmasking the False Comparisons of Palestinians to the Holocaust
> 
> 
> The sign “Arbeit macht frei” (Work makes you free) is pictured at the main gate of the former German Nazi …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.algemeiner.com











						When Jews praised Mussolini and supported Nazis: Meet Israel's first fascists
					

***




					www.haaretz.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Endless Surada revisionism and need to not look into what that group was about, why they came to be and how long they lasted.
Israel is a Democratic country which said a big NO to Russia's invitation to become a communist country. But apparently going against the British in Palestine, during the Mandate, who allowed Arabs to attack Jews any time in their own Jewish Homeland, is a terrible thing in the eyes of one who loves Arabs as much as Surada does ]

_The Strongmen Alliance_ (Alliance of Thugs[1])) was a clandestine, self-declared fascist faction of the Revisionist Zionist Movement (ZRM) in  Mandatory Palestine, active between 1930 and 1933.[2][3] It was founded by the trio of Abba Ahimeir, Uri Zvi Greenberg and Yehoshua Yeivin.

The 1929 Arab riots and the Haganah's inability to successfully prevent the 1929 Hebron massacre and the Safed massacre led to the creation of the first militant organization characterized by its complete disassociation from the existing Zionist establishment dominated by the Labor Zionist movement.[4]

----
Members of _Brit HaBirionim_ carried out several operations, including demonstrations against visiting British dignitaries, rallies against the British arrest and deportation to Europe of Jewish refugees who overstayed their tourist visas, attempts to interrupt a census conducted by the British, and other illegal activities intended as public provocations such as blowing the Shofar at the Western Wall (forbidden to Jews at that time), and removing the Nazi flags from two German consulates.[10][11]

In 1933, the British Mandatory Authority arrested several members, including Ahimeir, and charged them with the murder of Chaim Arlosoroff. Though acquitted of the charges in 1934, the trial tarnished the group's reputation and led to its isolation by former political supporters among the Jewish populace, and eventually to its demise.



(full article online)









						Brit HaBirionim - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Endless Surada revisionism and need to not look into what that group was about, why they came to be and how long they lasted.
> Israel is a Democratic country which said a big NO to Russia's invitation to become a communist country. But apparently going against the British in Palestine, during the Mandate, who allowed Arabs to attack Jews any time in their own Jewish Homeland, is a terrible thing in the eyes of one who loves Arabs as much as Surada does ]
> 
> _The Strongmen Alliance_ (Alliance of Thugs[1])) was a clandestine, self-declared fascist faction of the Revisionist Zionist Movement (ZRM) in  Mandatory Palestine, active between 1930 and 1933.[2][3] It was founded by the trio of Abba Ahimeir, Uri Zvi Greenberg and Yehoshua Yeivin.
> 
> The 1929 Arab riots and the Haganah's inability to successfully prevent the 1929 Hebron massacre and the Safed massacre led to the creation of the first militant organization characterized by its complete disassociation from the existing Zionist establishment dominated by the Labor Zionist movement.[4]
> 
> ----
> Members of _Brit HaBirionim_ carried out several operations, including demonstrations against visiting British dignitaries, rallies against the British arrest and deportation to Europe of Jewish refugees who overstayed their tourist visas, attempts to interrupt a census conducted by the British, and other illegal activities intended as public provocations such as blowing the Shofar at the Western Wall (forbidden to Jews at that time), and removing the Nazi flags from two German consulates.[10][11]
> 
> In 1933, the British Mandatory Authority arrested several members, including Ahimeir, and charged them with the murder of Chaim Arlosoroff. Though acquitted of the charges in 1934, the trial tarnished the group's reputation and led to its isolation by former political supporters among the Jewish populace, and eventually to its demise.
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brit HaBirionim - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


It was home to the Arabs too for 2500 years. They didn't immigrate from Europe and Russia.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> It was home to the Arabs too for 2500 years. They didn't immigrate from Europe and Russia.


Oh, have you decided finally on how long any Arab clan has lived in Ancient Canaan, Israel, Judea?

Or maybe not.

Your "Zionists are fascists" continues to miss the mark.

Try again.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Oh, have you decided finally on how long any Arab clan has lived in Ancient Canaan, Israel, Judea?
> 
> Or maybe not.
> 
> Your "Zionists are fascists" continues to miss the mark.
> 
> Try again.


Four Arab tribes settled in Samaria around 600 BC and obviously Abraham and Moses had Arab wives.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Four Arab tribes settled in Samaria around 600 BC and obviously Abraham and Moses had Arab wives.


Discussed, debunked.  Done.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Discussed, debunked.  Done.


So your Torah lied?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> So your Torah lied?


So, you are not lying in order to give Palestinian Arabs, who moved to the area mostly with the Mandate,  a right they do not have?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> So, you are not lying in order to give Palestinian Arabs, who moved to the area mostly with the Mandate,  a right they do not have?


The Arabs have been in Palestine since long before Islam. The Akkadian and Amorite Arabs have been there since before Abraham. Sargon was an Arab. Keturah and Zipporah were Arabs and all those Canaanite tribes weren't Jews.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Arabs have been in Palestine since long before Islam. The Akkadian and Amorite Arabs have been there since before Abraham. Sargon was an Arab. Keturah and Zipporah were Arabs and all those Canaanite tribes weren't Jews.


You really think that you can destroy Jewish History, change the history of other peoples, all in order to convince others that Palestinians today are descended from Arabs who lived in the area over 2000 years ago.

The Al Husseini clan only came to the area in the 10th or 11th century.

Many other clans only came to the area from the time of the Muslim invasion.

Many other Arabs only came to the area because of jobs Jews created at the end of the 19th century, and early 20th century.

BUT......all Arabs who find themselves in Palestine now, ARE according to you, rightful indigenous people of the land, as IF, the Arabs of the past and present were not indigenous of Arabia and mostly made their history in that sub Peninsula.

Akkadians were not Arabs any more then the English were Polish, even though they are all called Europeans and come from the same continent.


Try again.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> You really think that you can destroy Jewish History, change the history of other peoples, all in order to convince others that Palestinians today are descended from Arabs who lived in the area over 2000 years ago.
> 
> The Al Husseini clan only came to the area in the 10th or 11th century.
> 
> Many other clans only came to the area from the time of the Muslim invasion.
> 
> Many other Arabs only came to the area because of jobs Jews created at the end of the 19th century, and early 20th century.
> 
> BUT......all Arabs who find themselves in Palestine now, ARE according to you, rightful indigenous people of the land, as IF, the Arabs of the past and present were not indigenous of Arabia and mostly made their history in that sub Peninsula.
> 
> Akkadians were not Arabs any more then the English were Polish, even though they are all called Europeans and come from the same continent.
> 
> 
> Try again.


The Akkadians and Amorites originated in the Arabian peninsula.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Akkadians and Amorites originated in the Arabian peninsula.


EXACTLY !!!!!!


----------



## Sixties Fan

Not only was Ayyash’s depiction of Palestinian rioting on the Temple Mount as being somehow Israel’s fault driven by ideology, not facts, his attempt to describe Israel as a settler-colonial state, which purportedly “must secure and expand supreme sovereign control over the land of historic Palestine,” is even more fantastical.

Ayyash’s argument rests on either remarkable ignorance, or of an ideologically-driven agenda. Jerusalem was founded as the capital of the Jewish nation-state three thousand years ago, and Jews have inhabited the land for three millennia, outlasting a string of foreign invaders, including the Greeks, Romans, Byzantines and others.

After the Roman Empire sacked Jerusalem and expelled many of the region’s Jews two thousand years ago, they purposefully changed the name of Judea into Palestine (after an ancient seafaring group, the Philistines). Thus, what Ayyash refers to as “historic Palestine” is in actuality ancient Judea, which is where the term Jew originates.

Today, the State of Israel, while possessing only a fraction of its historic homeland, nevertheless has repeatedly offered the Palestinians a huge swath of ancient Israel in exchange for peace. Most notably, during the 2000 Camp David negotiations, then-Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered Palestinian Authority (PA) Chairman Yasser Arafat all of Gaza, eastern Jerusalem, and virtually all of Judea & Samaria (often called the West Bank). His offer was rejected, and Palestinian violence ensued.

Nevertheless, in 2005, Israel voluntarily withdrew from the Gaza Strip, uprooting thousands of its own citizens from the enclave. But before long, the 360 square kilometre area became a fiefdom for Hamas, the Islamist terrorist group, and a launching pad for terrorism against Israel.

In 1948, Israel achieved independence from the United Kingdom, which had previously overseen management of the land. For nearly two thousand years, since the Roman occupation of Judea, had the Jewish people achieved self-determination in their historic homeland, but Ayyash somehow sees fit to describe this yearning as somehow colonial.

In fact, not only is Zionism – the Jewish people’s striving for self-rule in their ancestral land – decidedly not colonialist by any definition, it represents the epitome of anti-colonialism: an ancient people, reclaiming their land, language and home, from the hands of a foreign occupier (or in the case of the Jews, from the hands of a string of foreign occupiers).

While the contemporary State of Israel today sits on only a portion of its historic land, Israel has shown time and time again its willingness – even enthusiasm – to give up land in the cause of peace. But every offer it has made to the Palestinians has been rejected, and often met with violence.

After three thousand years, the Jewish People clearly will not be giving up their historic homeland. Still, much of Palestinian rejectionism today is based on this baseless hope. Though Ayyash may believe his opinion article helps the Palestinian cause, all it does is enable the long-running Palestinian failure to achieve self-determination. The sooner that Ayyash and others accept Israel’s right to exist, and legitimacy as a nation-state, the better off Palestinians will be.

(full article online)









						University Professor In Calgary Spreads Anti-Israel Disinformation on Al Jazeera
					

In a recent opinion article published on Qatar-based Al Jazeera, “The cause, and the goal, of Israeli violence,” Mark Muhannad




					honestreporting.ca


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> EXACTLY !!!!!!


They moved to Mesopotamia around 3000 BC. Most serious scholars think all semitic people are originally from the Arabian peninsula.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> They moved to Mesopotamia around 3000 BC. Most serious scholars think all semitic people are originally from the Arabian peninsula.


Nonsense.  No proof of it.  

What do you have next?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Not only was Ayyash’s depiction of Palestinian rioting on the Temple Mount as being somehow Israel’s fault driven by ideology, not facts, his attempt to describe Israel as a settler-colonial state, which purportedly “must secure and expand supreme sovereign control over the land of historic Palestine,” is even more fantastical.
> 
> Ayyash’s argument rests on either remarkable ignorance, or of an ideologically-driven agenda. Jerusalem was founded as the capital of the Jewish nation-state three thousand years ago, and Jews have inhabited the land for three millennia, outlasting a string of foreign invaders, including the Greeks, Romans, Byzantines and others.
> 
> After the Roman Empire sacked Jerusalem and expelled many of the region’s Jews two thousand years ago, they purposefully changed the name of Judea into Palestine (after an ancient seafaring group, the Philistines). Thus, what Ayyash refers to as “historic Palestine” is in actuality ancient Judea, which is where the term Jew originates.
> 
> Today, the State of Israel, while possessing only a fraction of its historic homeland, nevertheless has repeatedly offered the Palestinians a huge swath of ancient Israel in exchange for peace. Most notably, during the 2000 Camp David negotiations, then-Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered Palestinian Authority (PA) Chairman Yasser Arafat all of Gaza, eastern Jerusalem, and virtually all of Judea & Samaria (often called the West Bank). His offer was rejected, and Palestinian violence ensued.
> 
> Nevertheless, in 2005, Israel voluntarily withdrew from the Gaza Strip, uprooting thousands of its own citizens from the enclave. But before long, the 360 square kilometre area became a fiefdom for Hamas, the Islamist terrorist group, and a launching pad for terrorism against Israel.
> 
> In 1948, Israel achieved independence from the United Kingdom, which had previously overseen management of the land. For nearly two thousand years, since the Roman occupation of Judea, had the Jewish people achieved self-determination in their historic homeland, but Ayyash somehow sees fit to describe this yearning as somehow colonial.
> 
> In fact, not only is Zionism – the Jewish people’s striving for self-rule in their ancestral land – decidedly not colonialist by any definition, it represents the epitome of anti-colonialism: an ancient people, reclaiming their land, language and home, from the hands of a foreign occupier (or in the case of the Jews, from the hands of a string of foreign occupiers).
> 
> While the contemporary State of Israel today sits on only a portion of its historic land, Israel has shown time and time again its willingness – even enthusiasm – to give up land in the cause of peace. But every offer it has made to the Palestinians has been rejected, and often met with violence.
> 
> After three thousand years, the Jewish People clearly will not be giving up their historic homeland. Still, much of Palestinian rejectionism today is based on this baseless hope. Though Ayyash may believe his opinion article helps the Palestinian cause, all it does is enable the long-running Palestinian failure to achieve self-determination. The sooner that Ayyash and others accept Israel’s right to exist, and legitimacy as a nation-state, the better off Palestinians will be.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> University Professor In Calgary Spreads Anti-Israel Disinformation on Al Jazeera
> 
> 
> In a recent opinion article published on Qatar-based Al Jazeera, “The cause, and the goal, of Israeli violence,” Mark Muhannad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> honestreporting.ca


The Egyptians, Babylonians and Assyrians also ruled Palestine.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Egyptians, Babylonians and Assyrians also ruled Palestine.


Today is Holocaust Remembrance Day.

The day you choose to show up again with every allegation that Israel does not have a right to exist, and Jews do not have a right to their ancient homeland.

We profoundly appreciate your thoughts.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Nonsense.  No proof of it.
> 
> What do you have next?


Sure there is. You are ignoring the information.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Today is Holocaust Remembrance Day.
> 
> The day you choose to show up again with every allegation that Israel does not have a right to exist, and Jews do not have a right to their ancient homeland.
> 
> We profoundly appreciate your thoughts.


Who says that they have no right to exist? The British gave them some land on condition they didn't abuse the other people who also lived there for thousands of years.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Who says that they have no right to exist? The British gave them some land on condition they didn't abuse the other people who also lived there for thousands of years.


You are destroying Jewish History again.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> The British gave them some land on condition they didn't abuse the other people who also lived there for thousands of years.



The British tried to give the Arabs some land too. 
But the Arabs fucked it up, eh?
And continue doing so to this day.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Toddsterpatriot said:


> The British tried to give the Arabs some land too.
> But the Arabs fucked it up, eh?
> And continue doing so to this day.


The British did not give anyone land.  They were merely to administer the land until ready to become a State/country, like Iraq, Lebanon and Syria.


----------



## surada

Toddsterpatriot said:


> The British tried to give the Arabs some land too.
> But the Arabs fucked it up, eh?
> And continue doing so to this day.


Are YOU for illegal immigration in the US?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Are YOU for illegal immigration in the US?


Totally asinine comparison.

Jews earned the right to return to their homeland and rebuild their Nation.

Stop rewriting Jewish History .


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> Are YOU for illegal immigration in the US?



Nope. And?


----------



## surada

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Nope. And?


Why not? You support the European Zionists taking over Palestine.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Totally asinine comparison.
> 
> Jews earned the right to return to their homeland and rebuild their Nation.
> 
> Stop rewriting Jewish History .


What did they do to earn it? They didn't fight with the British to oust the Turks.. but the Arabs did.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> What did they do to earn it? They didn't fight with the British to oust the Turks.. but the Arabs did.


What????      I can't hear you !!!!



The *Jewish Legion* (1917–1921) is an unofficial name used to refer to five battalions of Jewish volunteers, the 38th to 42nd (Service) Battalions of the Royal Fusiliers in the British Army, raised to fight against the Ottoman Empire during the First World War.

An evolution of the Zion Mule Corps that was raised in 1915 and fought in Gallipoli, the Jewish Legion started being formed in August 1917 with the formation of one Jewish battalion. The legion would incorporate a number of Russian Jews and later Jews from the United States and Canada with the unit reaching five battalions. The Legion fought in the Battle of Jerusalem and the Battle of Megiddo, before being reduced to one battalion, known as *First Judaeans*.





__





						Jewish Legion - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> What did they do to earn it? They didn't fight with the British to oust the Turks.. but the Arabs did.


It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the rights of the Jewish People/Nation to rebuild their Nation on their ancient homeland.


NOTHING !!!


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the rights of the Jewish People/Nation to rebuild their Nation on their ancient homeland.
> 
> 
> NOTHING !!!


It was a gift. You did nothing to earn land in Palestine.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> It was a gift. You did nothing to earn land in Palestine.


It is ours.  We do not need to be given a gift of something that does belong to us and has been stolen by many invaders, from the Romans to the Muslim Arabs, Ottoman and British.

You are beyond delusional.


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## Sixties Fan

Senior Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) official Muhammad Shalah said in an April 24, 2022 show on Al-Quds Al-Youm TV (Islamic Jihad – Gaza) that Palestine is unquestionably Palestinian land, and that the Jews have no historical claim to it. He also said that Allah brought the Jews to Palestine for the Palestinians to "finish them off. In addition, he said that the PIJ is part of the Iran-backed "resistance axis" and that while Iran supplied the Palestinians with rockets and weapons, the Arabs only gave them school supplies. Muhammad Shalah is the brother of the former leader of the Islamic Jihad, Ramadan Abdullah Shalah who died in 2020.


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## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> Why not? You support the European Zionists taking over Palestine.



Jews in Israel is okay with me.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> They didn't fight with the British to oust the Turks.. but the Arabs did.



Those couple of dozen Palestinians were very helpful.

How about Jordan for compensation?


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## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> You did nothing to earn land in Palestine.



Well, they have been kicking some pretty serious Arab ass for the last 7+ decades defending it.


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## surada

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Those couple of dozen Palestinians were very helpful.
> 
> How about Jordan for compensation?


They had always lived in transjordan.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> They had always lived in transjordan.


They who (?) had lived in TransJordan?

Not the Hashemites who were given all of TranJordan by the British, and then expelled all the Jews who had lived there for thousands of years.

Try again.


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## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> They had always lived in transjordan.



And Jews have always lived in Israel.


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## Sixties Fan

They call it the _Nakba_, the disaster, pretending they were expelled. We call it a lot of people turning tail. Whatever you call it, it happened after the nascent State of Israel was attacked by multiple Arab nations, just for declaring independence from British rule.

The vast majority of Arab residents left Israel of their own volition. No one forced them out of their homes. They could have stayed. But they didn’t.

Why did the Arabs flee? For one things, the leaders of the invading Arab armies told them to leave. In effect, the Arabs who fled at the behest of Arab heads of state, were told that they should get out of the way while they made short shrift of the Jews and pushed them into the sea. Then, they intimated, the Arab residents who fled could return to their homes, free of Jews forever, while enjoying the spoils left behind by a presumably exterminated people.

History, however, proved these leaders, and the runners who listened to them, wrong. Little Israel/David defeated Goliath, in the form of the multitude of soldiers who poured into the new Jewish State from five separate Arab countries to murder Jews and take their land. It may have been a _Nakba_/Disaster, but it was a disaster of their own making (the idjits). Not only because they lost, but because they became political pawns in perpetuity, kept in refugee camps by their own people—but the losers—blaming it on Israel.

On the bright side, the Arabist world of antisemites, took their side and called them “refugees,” changing the definition of that word forever, but only for those who ran away from Israel in 1948. That meant they could get lots of money and stuff from UNRWA, and be lamented by the media and other entities and people biased against Jews and their indigenous land rights. They also inflated the number of “refugees” so the situation looked far worse than it was, and so more people could claim hereditary rights to land that was never theirs in the first place.

It’s all one big sack of lies. Expulsion? Nonsense. The kind of nonsense that froufrou psychopathic self-hating Israelis just love to trumpet. From the _Im Tirtzu_ booklet "Nakba Nonsense" (Erez Tadmor, Erel Segal):



> Teddy Katz, a graduate student from Haifa University, wrote an MA thesis entitled ”The Tantura Massacre.” Katz determined that the soldiers of the Alexandroni Brigade had perpetrated a massacre on approximately 200 unarmed men who had resided in the village of Tantura. Veterans of the brigade sued Katz for having published a libel, and in a compromise agreement it was determined that Katz would retract his accusation and would publish an apology in the press. Katz signed the agreement and the press release, but soon went back on his word and submitted a petition to the Supreme Court that was eventually rejected. It was discovered that Katz had distorted and completely modified witness accounts he had collected from the villagers. The archives which had documented the battle, the comparison of the alleged numbers of casualties with the number of residents of the village and a book which had been written by one of the villagers all proved that Katz's thesis had been false. Apparently, until Katz had appeared, not even the residents of the village had claimed that a massacre had taken place there. Haifa University had no other choice but to disqualify the thesis.


Do not delude yourself in thinking that this was just one false claim in a sea of truth. The _Nakba_ is rather, a lie cut from whole synthetic cloth. There was no ethnic cleansing, they could have stayed and lived in peace.

But the lies have flowed for decade, from one mouth to the next to the entire world, all of them telling lies about Israel. More from "_Nakba _Nonsense":



> One of the most prominent stories concerns the case of Haifa. In 1948 the second-largest Arab community in the country resided in Haifa; the largest Arab community resided in Jaffa. Haifa was the home of the Arab elite and leadership classes of the northern part of the country and before the war erupted counted 62,500 Arab inhabitants. At the end of the war no more than a few thousand remained. No less than a tenth of the Arab refugees who had left the country in the years 1947-1949 originated from Haifa.
> One of [Efraim] Karsh's most interesting findings is that although the fighting in Haifa reached its peak on April 21-22, 1948, the mass desertion of Arabs from the city had already begun in October 1947, a month prior to the UN Resolution of November 29th that had prompted the start of the war. A British intelligence brief dated October 23, 1947 reveals that the city's most prominent families realized that the confrontation was imminent and began to evacuate their families to the Arab countries.



(full article online)









						You Say Nakba, We Say You Fled, Let's Call the Whole Thing Off (Judean Rose) (UPDATE)
					

The real "Nakba" was a disaster of Arab making




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Mindful

As we approach Yom HaShoah, the question of learning from the great catastrophe of the Holocaust — without diminishing it in any way — is more intensely on the agenda than ever before.

Several factors have come together to make the need for appropriate distinctions today so important on the day that the world pauses to remember the millions who died in the Holocaust and listen to those who survived.

First, of course, is the concern about declining knowledge of the Holocaust among the younger generations, a product of time passing by, of survivors passing away and of the diminution of the reality of the Holocaust by trivialization and false comparisons.
While many ingredients go into the challenge of educating about the Shoah and making it relevant in today’s world, the need to avoid trivialization by the abusive use of comparisons to today’s evils is primary. *If everything that goes wrong is comparable to the Holocaust, what understanding can there be of the unique evil of that event?*

One of the sharpest manifestations of this took place when Vladimir Zelensky spoke to the Knesset last month about the horrific Russian assault against his country. His task was to move Israel to do more to support Ukraine. Unfortunately, unlike his prior presentations to the U.K. House of Commons and the U.S. Congress, where he was spot-on in touching the appropriate emotional chords — in the U.S., for example, he spoke to the memory of Martin Luther King Jr. and the 9-11 terrorist attacks — in Israel he distracted from his message by comparing what Ukrainians were experiencing to the Holocaust. And very quickly that became the topic of the day rather than the horrors of the invasion itself and what Israel could do to better assist Ukraine.


ADL


----------



## Sixties Fan

It’s noteworthy that CBC ignored how the Temple Mount is Judaism’s holiest site and that Israel asserts its sovereignty there, though it may be disputed by the Palestinians. Importantly, when Jordan occupied the area from 1948-1967, Jews were denied access to the Old City, and Jewish holy sites and artifacts were desecrated and destroyed. For many years, the Islamic Waqf, which oversees the site, removed thousands of tonnes of rubble from the Temple Mount that included archeological remnants from the First and Second Temple periods. In so doing, Jewish artifacts were destroyed at Judaism’s holiest site in an attempt to erase every sign and memory of its Jewish past, including the destruction of archaeological evidence of the site’s very connection to Judaism.

Yet, when Israel reunified the area, capturing it in a defensive battle in the Six-Day War, the area suddenly became “occupied” in the eyes of the international community and the media, but these lands weren’t regarded as “occupied” when Jordan held the land for 19 years. And when Israel captured the area, again in a war it didn’t initiate, but that it had preexisting claims to, Israel allowed Jordan, by way of the Islamic Waqf, to maintain control of the Temple Mount site. This included allowing only a small number of Jews to visit the Temple Mount, but denied them the right to pray at Judaism’s holiest site.

While Palestinian Authority leaders frequently repeat the lie that there was never a Jewish temple, something the CBC never reports on, this ploy did not succeed. Excavations and copious archeological evidence prove 3,000 years of Jewish indigeneity in Jerusalem.

(full article online)









						CBC Delegitimizes Israeli Sovereignty in Jerusalem
					

Jerusalem is the eternal and undivided capital of the State of Israel and while the status of the city is




					honestreporting.ca


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

We've been discussing this since the riots began. 

The newspaper shows some examples of the stones being moved and broken, many in an attempt to build roadblocks so Jews cannot walk around the perimeter of the site, especially along the eastern wall where many of the ancient artifacts are piled without protection.

Some of the stones on the eastern side were dumped there when the Waqf excavated the "Solomon's Stables" area underneath the Mount.













The Israel Antiquities Authority response is unbelievable:




> Dr. Amit Re'em, the Jerusalem District archaeologist for the Israel Antiquities Authority, responded to Visoli's letter, saying the IAA was handling the issue. Re'em stressed that most of the rocks photographed were modern, and *only a few were actually archaeological remnants.*
> 
> Re'em wrote that it would only be able to conduct a full assessment of damage to Temple Mount antiquities after Ramadan and the recent spate of violence were over. He noted that *the IAA was keeping tabs on the situation.*



"Only a few"? So that makes it OK somehow?

And forgive me if I'm skeptical about the IAA keeping tabs on the situation, because it allowed the wholesale destruction and removal of 400 truckloads of material from the Temple Mount in the 1990s, the biggest archaeological crime in history.

If the IAA is so blasé about the destruction of the most important Jewish artifacts in the world, why should we expect UNESCO or other organizations to care?

This is a crime, happening right now. Palestinians are knowingly destroying Jewish and Christian archaeological treasures. The IAA should be in the forefront of enforcing Israeli laws in protecting this site, and instead it says that "the IAA and the Waqf were cooperating on archaeological matters." 

We can see the fruits of this cooperation in the photos above.

(full article online)









						More photos of Palestinian destruction of priceless antiquities on the Temple Mount; Israel Antiquities Authority shrugs it off
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

Velshi makes it sound like Israel illegally stole land from Jordan, when the world never recognized Jordan's truly illegal annexation of the West Bank in 1949. Instead of this textbook case of annexation, he extends his definition of "annexation" to include "occupation," and he doesn't even undertand that:




> Israel actually did annex two  thirds of the Golan from Syria during the Six Day War., passing a law extending Israeli  law, jurisdiction, and  administration to the area.


Israel annexed the Golan Heights in 1981, not 1967. And Velshi implies that Israel's capture of the Golan was from an aggressive war on Israel's part, not Syrian aggression in 1967 and 1973. He fails to mention that capturing land in a defensive war was never considered illegal before Israel did it. He also doesn't mention that Syria liked to shoot at Israeli civilians from the high ground and this is unacceptable. 

None of that is relevant in his zeal to paint Israel as a unique thief of land.

Not to mention that Velshi is strikingly supportive of a regime that kills its own people. How do you think Assad would treat the "traitors" and "spies" that live in the Golan now if Israel would give it up as he demands?  Suddenly, human rights are not nearly as important as misapplying international law against the Jewish state. 



> ...Since 1967, Israel and the  Palestinians both assert rights  in the West Bank.  Leaving its status unresolved.  Israel claims historical and  religious rights to the West Bank, as the ancestral land of the Jewish people.  Hundreds of thousands of Jewish  settlers now live on illegally  occupied palestinian land in  the West Bank.


See the sleight of hand here? At first (above), Israel occupied the land from Jordan. Then, both Israel and Palestinians claim rights to the land. Finally, Velshi declares it unambiguously Palestinian land - and also claims that the "occupation" is illegal, when occupation is emphatically *not *illegal under international law. 



> Palestinian families are  constantly kicked out of their  homes to make room for more  Israeli settlements, often, under false pretenses  and legal justifications.


This is a *complete falsehood. *No Israeli settlements are built on land where Palestinians have been "kicked out." (The only possible exception is Hebron, on properties that had been stolen from Jews in the 1920s and 1930s.)  The Palestinians whose homes are demolished either built them illegally or they are families of terrorists. Say what you want about the circumstances, but Israel's Supreme Court rules on each and every one of these cases, and it has never been credibly accused of operating under false pretenses or accepting invalid legal justifications.

This is not only a smear job. It is riddled with basic errors and inaccuracies - all in one direction.   

Which is par for the course for  MSNBC. 


(full article online)









						.@AliVelshi of @MSNBC spouts lies and anti-Israel bias
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

NPR's All Things Considered has a worshipful interviewwith Reem Assil about her new cookbook, "Arabiyya: Recipes from the Life of an Arab in Diaspora."

During the interview, Assil laughingly says that Israel stole Palestinian culture and cuisine and land:




> Well, you know, hummus existed long before the state of Israel was created in 1948, and so there is an intentional omission of Palestinian (laughter). And that invisibilizes  me - you know? - the fact not just that Israeli hummus is the Trader Joe's hummus, the, you know, the Americanized versions of hummus...
> And it feels - yeah. That sort of, you know, whether intentional or not intentional, devoiding food from its - cutting it off from its lineage and negating a whole people that enjoyed and subsisted off of that food for generations is really dangerous. You know, for Palestinians, we don't have much left. You know, we - you know, a lot of our lands have been taken from us. Our - you know, we've been cut off from our foodways. So our food is like the last frontier of, you know, marking our identity. And so it's really important for me as a chef here in this country to be able to talk about that food and have people question where the food comes from.... It's inherently political.



And that is the entire reason NPR devotes a segment to a first time cookbook author. Not because her food is so unique or noteworthy, but because it is ammunition against Israel.

And who is Reem?

We've discussed her before. Here is what her restaurant looks like:




Yes, that's a huge mural of terrorist Rasmea Odeh, murderer of two Jews.

NPR is praising a person whose hero is a terrorist.

Reem adds this ironic note:


> When I created my restaurants, you know, seven years ago, *I wanted anybody to walk into Reem's and feel at home*, whether they knew anything about Arab food or not.


Except for Jews. 












						NPR gushes over fan of terrorist Rasmea Odeh
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

The status quo on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, as formulated by Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Dayan in 1967, no longer exists. In the 55 years since the Six-Day War, changes in the status quo have greatly improved the Muslims’ hold on the Temple Mount.
Muslims have inaugurated four new mosques on the Temple Mount since 1967: the Dome of the Rock, which originally was not built as a mosque; the El-Marwani Mosque, located underground in Solomon’s Stables; the “Ancient Al-Aqsa” Mosque, established in 1998 under the existing upper mosque; and the Gate of Mercy (Golden Gate) prayer area, set up and turned into a mosque in 2019.
The establishment of additional mosques on the mount stemmed from a new definition of the Temple Mount compound by the Muslims, who began to refer to all of the area as “Al-Aqsa” and to regard the entire mount as one great mosque. Until the Six-Day War, the compound as a whole was called “Al-Haram al-Sharif” (the Holy and Noble Place), and was defined differently from the Al-Aqsa Mosque.
In the first decade after the Six-Day War, Jews were allowed to enter the mount through the Chain Gate and the Cotton Merchants’ Gate, but today can only enter through the Mughrabi Gate. For two decades, Jews were allowed to visit for more hours of the day and at all parts of the mount, even the interior of the mosques. Today, Jews’ visits to the mount are much more limited in time and in the areas permitted.
While displaying flags is prohibited on the Temple Mount, in practice, the only flag not displayed there is Israel’s. Palestinian Authority, PLO, Hamas, and Hizb al-Tahrir flags can often be seen, while a small Israeli flag on the desk of an officer at the Temple Mount police station had to be removed following Muslim protest.

(full article online)









						The Status Quo on Jerusalem’s Temple Mount Has Greatly Changed since 1967
					

The parameters of the status quo have changed, mainly in favor of the Muslims - The Status Quo on Jerusalem’s Temple Mount Has Greatly Changed since 1967




					jcpa.org


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## Sixties Fan

Tiferes Yisrael on the left, Hurva on the right, ;ate 1930s



The Royal Committee for Jerusalem Affairs of Jordan was created by the late King Hussein in 1971 and reconstituted in 1994. Its mission:



> The Royal Committee for Jerusalem Affairs is working to raise awareness of the importance of the issue of Jerusalem and not to separate it from its Arab and Islamic dimension, expose the Judaization and daily Israeli violations it is subjected to, and increase efforts working to stabilize Jerusalemites, support their steadfastness and publicize their suffering.


Its website is filled with antisemitic invective, calling every Jew in Jerusalem a "colonialist."

Here is a typical article that exposes how thoroughly antisemitic the Committee is - as well as the government that funds it. It rails against the Israeli plans to rebuild the Tireres Yisrael synagogue in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem, which was destroyed along with every single other synagogue in the Old City in 1948 by Jordanian forces.




> [Israel's] plans to start building a synagogue allegedly called Tiferes Israel, on an endowment land in which there is an Islamic historical building, about 200 meters from the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque from its western side, at a cost of $13 million, and with a construction area of 387 square meters, consisting of six floors, four of them underground and two above the ground, 23 meters high. It includes a synagogue, facilities for holding *Talmudic prayers*,* a false Talmudic museum *and public services, to be one of the largest synagogues in the world.This comes after the building of  the Hurva synagogue, which was also erected on confiscated Jerusalem land and property, in implementation of an Israeli rabbi’s proposal claiming that it speeds up salvation and the coming of the Messiah and building the temple, according to their claim.
> 
> The Royal Committee for Jerusalem Affairs stresses *the danger of this alleged synagogue, *as well as other Jewish centers, which are trying to obliterate the Arab identity of Jerusalem and its authentic Arab (Islamic and Christian) identity, and aims to change the space of the Arab city of Jerusalem in preparation for the expulsion of its Arab residents and the settlement of settlers, and an attempt to create an alleged Jewish climate by creating Talmudic paths and stations and building synagogues and biblical gardens in the vicinity of the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque and the city of Jerusalem, which destroys peace and security in the region and ends the chance of the two-state solution to establish a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital on the 1967 borders, which was adopted by international resolutions and the Arab Peace Initiative.
> 
> The Royal Committee for Jerusalem Affairs affirms that the firm position of Jordan under its historical Hashemite leadership, which has historical guardianship over the Islamic and Christian holy sites in Jerusalem, will remain the defender of Palestine and Jerusalem, regardless of the cost and sacrifices as a national and national cause. The unanimous agreement that includes deterring Israel (the occupying power) to stop its crimes and violations, including hundreds of international resolutions issued by the United Nations and its affiliated organizations, including UNESCO, which affirmed the exclusive Arab identity of Jerusalem and its Islamic and Christian holy sites, and international organizations must protect human rights and humanitarian organizations ....[and expose] Israel's racist crimes.




Tiferes Yisrael was built on land legally purchased, at a huge cost, by the city's Chassidic Jews in the 1840s. But besides the lies in the history is the seething hatred of Jews throughout the article - its emphasis on how Jerusalem has no Jewish history, using the word "Talmudic" as an epithet, calling Jews liars. 

This is Jordan, today.










						Jordanian Royal Committee says rebuilding a synagogue (destroyed by Jordan) is a racist Jewish crime
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

The JCPA published an interesting article about how the status quo has changed on the Temple Mount since 1967 - mostly towards Muslim control.

One point made in the article struck me:


> The expansion of the Muslims’ prayer areas and the establishment of additional mosques on the mount stemmed from a new definition of the Temple Mount compound by the Muslims, who began to refer to all of the all of it as “Al-Aqsa” and to regard the entire mount as one great mosque. *They began to call the Al-Aqsa Mosque itself, which is on the mount’s southern edge, “Al-Jamia al-Kibli”*—the Mosque of the Direction of Prayer (in the direction of Mecca, signifying Jerusalem was Muslims’ first direction of prayer).





> Until the Six-Day War the southern mosque was defined differently from the other parts of the compound and was called by its real name, Al-Aqsa; the compound as a whole was called “Al-Haram al-Sharif” (the Holy and Noble Place). But after the Six-Day War—as the Jewish-Muslim dispute over the mount intensified—the situation gradually changed and the Muslims applied the name “Al-Aqsa” to the whole compound, with all its buildings, streets, and walls.


This is absolutely true. Here is how the Waqf guidebook for the Temple Mount looked until 1967:














And here it is now:





In the new guide, it says - contrary to the previous editions - that the entire complex is Al Aqsa and the building that has been called the Al Aqsa Mosque by Muslims themselves has always been called "al-Qibly."










Either they are lying now, or the Waqf had no idea what they were talking about for the past hundred years in the previous editions, like 1925 and 1961, when the Al Aqsa Mosque was a building, not the entire Haram:






(full article online)









						Palestinians rewriting history, again: The Temple Mount has transformed from "Haram al-Sharif" into "Al Aqsa Mosque"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

Jordan, the Arab League and the UN’s failure to condemn the virulent Jew-hatred on public display during Ramadan at Islam’s third holiest religious site – the Al-Aksa Mosque – located on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, although the Wakf now calls the entire site by that name - is despicable. The US reaction to the violence is to blame both sides and ask Bennett to foster calm as if that is up to Israel.

Thousands of Muslim rioters defiled what they claim to venerate as a Muslim Holy Shrine -- converting it into a rallying point for flag-waving slogan-shouting Palestinian Arabs armed with rocks and Molotov cocktails to vent their hatred against Jews.

*Clauses 9.1 and 9.2 of the 1994 Israel-Jordan Peace Treaty state*:

9.1. Each Party will provide freedom of access to places of religious and historical significance. 

9.2. In this regard, in accordance with the Washington Declaration, Israel respects the present special role of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in Muslim Holy shrines in Jerusalem. When negotiations on the permanent status will take place, Israel will give high priority to the Jordanian historic role in these shrines.

The reaction in the Jordanian Parliament to the rioting - expressed by Jordan’s Prime Minister - Bisher Al-Khasawneh - was mind-boggling:


“I salute every Palestinian, and all the employees of the Jordanian Islamic Waqf, who proudly stand like minarets, hurling their stones in a volley of clay at the Zionist sympathizers defiling the Al-Aqsa Mosque under the protection of the Israeli occupation government”

Instead of publicly condemning his Prime Minister’s provocative and offensive remarks and pledging to uphold the terms of Jordan’s Peace Treaty with Israel – Jordan’s King Abdullah phoned Egyptian President Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi where they:

“stressed the need to cease all illegal and provocative Israeli measures in Al-Aqsa Mosque.”

The Arab League called on Israel to end Jewish prayer on the Temple Mount - warning it was a flagrant affront to Muslim feelings that could trigger wider conflict.

Jordanian Foreign Minister Ayman al Safadi - standing alongside Arab League chief Ahmed Aboul Gheit after an emergency Arab League meeting in Amman stated:

"Our demands are clear that Al-Aqsa and Haram al Sharif in all its area is a sole place of worship for Muslims,"



(full article online)









						Fueling Jew hatred on the Temple Mount
					

Jordan, the Arab League, the UN and the US, all fuel raw antisemitisim at Judaism's holiest site. Opinion.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


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## Sixties Fan

What Jewish Refugees? Media Ignore Mass Expulsion​During Israel’s War of Independence, approximately the same number of Jewish refugees arrived in the fledgling Jewish state as Palestinians who fled their homes. Yet one side of these historic events has seemingly been buried by leading news organizations. 

HonestReporting examined thousands of articles and news segments to gauge how the media have reported on the Jewish refugee story compared to the Palestinian refugee issue over the last 12 months. While ‘Palestinian refugees’ was cited nearly six and a half thousand times, there were only 865 ‘Jewish refugees’ citations during the same period.

No Recognition From United Nations of Jews Driven From Arab Countries​The media’s unwillingness to report on the story of Jewish refugees isn’t occurring in a vacuum. The United Nations is pushing the Palestinian narrative as well.

In 2008, the US House of Representatives unanimously adopted a resolution calling for the recognition of Jewish, Christian, and other refugees from Arab lands. The resolution states that any agreement between Israelis and Palestinians must include recognition of Jewish refugees as well. The resolution makes it clear that the subject should be brought before the UN General Assembly.

Yet the United Nations refuses to recognize the Jews who were brutally expelled from Arab states. In response, Israel’s Ambassador to the United Nations Gilad Erdan informed UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres in December 2020 of his intention to submit a draft resolution requiring the international body to hold an annual commemoration for the hundreds of thousands of Jews exiled from Arab countries due to the creation of the State of Israel.

Erdan also asked the UN to launch a global research project on the deportation of Jews from the Arab world and to back the study of the subject in various UN forums.

(full article online)









						Media Erase Plight of Jewish Refugees From Arab Lands | Honest Reporting
					

The media went into overdrive this week with wall-to-wall coverage of the United Nations’ “International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People”




					honestreporting.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

The reader will learn that, according to Tauber, there was no preplanned massacre. As for the numbers, while on April 10, the day after the battle, The New York Times reported: “In house-to-house fighting, the Jews killed more than 200 Arabs, half of them women and children,” Tauber actually lists each and every one of the 101 Arab fatalities. Furthermore, on page 207, Tauber concludes that “most of the [Arabs] killed in the village were killed during the battle and under battle conditions and not in a subsequent deliberate massacre.” 


In other words, while noncombatants were indeed killed, according to his research, only a very few were purposely murdered outside the framework of actual combat. None of this justifies Israel’s fighters’ conduct during that period in instances when there were violations, like those of many other armed forces. And there were certainly differences in many parts of the war between the Hagana and the other forces. But Tauber’s research puts the incident in a new light, especially compared to some Palestinian conduct during the war, and it reveals how the Hagana may also have had an interest in allowing the Palestinians to frame its Jewish rival groups for worse violations than what actually occurred. 


Tauber adds historical depth to the incident. Did Deir Yasin live in peace with its Jewish neighbors? Many did. Yet in March 1914, some made an assault on the Jews residing in nearby Givat Shaul, throwing stones at the Jews praying in the synagogue and beating them. Police intervention rescued them.


Bernard Wasserstein, in his The British in Palestine: The Mandatory Government and the Arab-Jewish Conflict 1917-1929, page 69, missing from Tauber’s bibliography, quotes British documents that the village served as a center of weapons trafficking during the violent 1920 riot. Indeed, throughout the Mandate period, Jews suffered from attacks of Deir Yasinites, especially during 1929 and the 1936-1939 wave of anti-Jewish terrorism.


On April 2, 1948, sniping from Deir Yasin was directed at the Jewish neighborhoods of Bet Hakerem and Yefeh Nof. According to reports by the Shai (Hagana Intelligence), fortifications were being constructed in the village, and a large number of arms were being stockpiled. Men of Deir Yasin took an active part in the battle for Castel, had dug trenches at the entry to the village, and many of the villagers were armed. As Tauber makes clear, the residents planned for a battle and, mistakenly, presumed the attacking Jewish force had planned for just a raid. 


On the other hand, the attackers also made a mistaken assumption that the villagers would flee at the first shots. While 70% of the villagers escaped via a route purposely left open, of those who remained in the village, 90% survived, according to Tauber’s book. That would put into question the claims of a massacre. 


In addition, Tauber makes sure we also know more of the involvement of the Red Cross, the Jewish Agency, Hagana and Palmah.


Of course, one could feel quite uncomfortable learning that in the end Arab civilians were killed. On the other hand, Tauber details how Arab leaders themselves falsified the events at Deir Yasin and then turned that fabrication to their disadvantage, with no less that Azzam Pasha, the Arab League’s secretary-general, admitting Deir Yasin was the “turning point” in the war.


Today, 75 years later, we still face Arab canards. Deconstructing Deir Yasin, even if unpleasant because it also draws attention to an incident where Israel was not at its best by any account, may also assist addressing ongoing contemporary distortions.


There is much more to be found in Tauber’s meticulous and comprehensive review of material in three languages, his comparing testimonies and testing their reliability, challenging notions and prejudices as well as bringing order and sense not only to the events of those few hours of combat but to the decades of lies, cover-ups, false accusations and ignored facts.


As bad as the events at Deir Yasin were, there is enough information that has been brought to light by Tauber that begs for a reassessment of its massacre label.

(full article online)









						Did the Deir Yasin massacre actually happen? New book investigates
					

Was there a massacre or a battle, with many fewer killed civilians than portrayed?




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

jewishvoiceforpeace​Israel sequentially commemorates the Holocaust, Israeli soldiers, and the creation of the state, promoting false Zionist narratives that:

1) The Holocaust justifies the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
2) Jews can only be safe and free in a militarized, colonial, apartheid state.

Swipe left to learn how.

We don't buy any part of these narratives.

We reject the Israeli state's distortion of our religion's liberation story into an ahistorical myth of endless Jewish persecution. We refuse the idea that we are doomed to victimhood unless we accept militarism and nationalism.

We don't want the memories of ancestors murdered in the Holocaust to be instrumentalized to justify the murder and expulsion of Palestinians. And we want the stories of our ancestors' resistance to Nazis to inspire oppressed people around the world — not valorize oppressors.

We don't need a militarized, colonial, apartheid state to keep us safe at Palestinians' expense.

We want to live in a world with freedom, justice, and dignity for ALL, and we're building it through solidarity with other communities targeted by racism and white supremacy.

Sources:
State Ceremonies of Israel: Remembrance Day and Independence Day by Handelman and Katz
The Memorial Ceremony in Israeli Schools: Between the State and Civil Society by Lomsky-Feder

#YomHaShoah #YomHazikaron#yomhaatzmaut

------
Israel's Independence Day is observed on the Hebrew calendar date Iyar 5, which coincided with the day that Israel declared independence on May 14 1948.


"We don't buy any part of this Zionist narrative," said JVP. "We reject the Israeli state's distortion of our religion's liberation story into an ahistorical myth of endless Jewish persecution. We refuse the idea that we are doomed to victimhood unless we accept militarism and nationalism. We don't want the memories of ancestors murdered in the Holocaust to be instrumentalized to justify the murder and expulsion of Palestinians."


"Attempts like those by JVP to distort history and reality don’t stay just within their followers online - it legitimizes all actors of hate," Saskia Pantell of the Sweden Israel Alliance & Zionist Federation of Sweden said in response to JVP's posts. "Being an American liberal Jew that grew up in Europe I’m horrified by these extremist lies. I’ve witnessed firsthand how this kind of propaganda harms the daily lives of Jews globally resulting in death threats and attacks against Jews myself included."

(full article online)









						JVP: Israel's memorial days created to promote 'harmful' narrative
					

"Israeli leaders intentionally designed the sequence of these fabricated, secular holidays," to promote "harmful Zionist narratives," argued Jewish Voice for Peace.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

On April 30, MSNBC host Ali Velshi delivered a lengthy rant against the Jewish state that was as dishonest as it was rabid. The monologue was riddled with false statements and exaggerations that betray Velshi’s willingness to twist the facts to fit his preferred narrative.

During the segment, Velshi claimed: “_The map of the Palestinian Authority, sometimes described as Swiss cheese, has been carved up by Israel over the past century_.” 

The Palestinian Authority (“PA”) did not exist until 1994, a mere 28 years ago, so the reference to the “past century” is erroneous. Furthermore, the PA was created under the Oslo Accords, mutually agreed to between the State of Israel and the Palestinian Liberation Organization. It is under these same agreements that the current map of the Palestinian Authority’s varying levels of autonomy (Areas A, B, and C) was agreed to during negotiations.

To thus claim that Israel “carved up” the territory of the Palestinian Authority is fundamentally false.

The map and territorial changes, entailing Israel transferring 40% of the West Bank to the Palestinian Authority, mainly under Area B status, were drawn in negotiations between the two parties and implemented. Indeed, Velshi himself acknowledges that drawing of borders in this way is entirely legitimate when, later in the monologue, he states: “It is not illegitimate to change borders as long as it’s done through negotiations…” 

Velshi goes on to claim that Israeli settlers live on “_illegally occupied Palestinian land_.” He also claims that “_forcibly occupying another territory is illegal_.” Even if one considers the territory occupied, it is not considered illegal. Indeed, “occupation” is clearly provided for in international law (see, e.g., the Fourth Geneva Convention). CAMERA has repeatedly had this error corrected in outlets such as CNBC, the New York Times, the Independent, and Bloomberg. 

The reference to Israeli settlers living on “_Palestinian land_” is also incorrect. Under the Oslo Accords, both sides agreed that the status of the West Bank would be decided in final status negotiations between the parties. Until then, the status of the West Bank is disputed, not “Palestinian.” This is particularly true for Area C, where Israeli settlements are located, and where the PA was not accorded the substantial levels of autonomy it was in Areas A and B. Having made similar errors, outlets like the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times subsequently issued corrections. 

Velshi also stated that “_occupation is just a step toward annexation_.” While this is technically true in the most generous sense – annexation would typically be preceded by occupation except under quite unusual circumstances – annexation is not the inevitable conclusion of occupation. The concept of “occupation” under international law, which we’ll assume _arguendo_ applies to Israel, is designed to govern the territory pending a final status deal between the parties. By implying that occupation, which is entirely legal, will inevitably end in an illegal annexation, Velshi is misleading viewers.

Finally, during the rant, Velshi called Israel the “leading occupying force in the world.” Under what metric did Velshi make this statement? In terms of land area, Western Sahara is approximately 10 times the size of the entire State of Israel, including all the disputed territories. In terms of length of time, China’s occupation of Tibet preceded Israel’s capture of the territories by more than a decade and a half.

In response to CAMERA’s request for corrections, MSNBC made various excuses for Velshi’s disconnect from factual reality, such as that he wasn’t actually making factual assertions, or that he was speaking in “shorthand.”

The phrase “illegally occupied Palestinian land” is not a statement of opinion. It is a false statement of fact, as multiple other outlets have clearly understood.

(full article online)









						Velshi’s Rabid, Reckless Rant
					

When MSNBC has to excuse Velshi’s inaccuracies by claiming he wasn’t actually talking about factual reality, or that he was speaking overly broadly by




					www.camera.org


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> They who (?) had lived in TransJordan?
> 
> Not the Hashemites who were given all of TranJordan by the British, and then expelled all the Jews who had lived there for thousands of years.
> 
> Try again.


The Jewish population of Palestine was a tiny minority. See the Ottoman census of 1870. They didn't even try to count the Bedouin. Why did the Palestinian Jews leave transjordan?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> NPR's All Things Considered has a worshipful interviewwith Reem Assil about her new cookbook, "Arabiyya: Recipes from the Life of an Arab in Diaspora."
> 
> During the interview, Assil laughingly says that Israel stole Palestinian culture and cuisine and land:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that is the entire reason NPR devotes a segment to a first time cookbook author. Not because her food is so unique or noteworthy, but because it is ammunition against Israel.
> 
> And who is Reem?
> 
> We've discussed her before. Here is what her restaurant looks like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that's a huge mural of terrorist Rasmea Odeh, murderer of two Jews.
> 
> NPR is praising a person whose hero is a terrorist.
> 
> Reem adds this ironic note:
> 
> Except for Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NPR gushes over fan of terrorist Rasmea Odeh
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com


Did you all eat hummus in Russia or Poland?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Velshi makes it sound like Israel illegally stole land from Jordan, when the world never recognized Jordan's truly illegal annexation of the West Bank in 1949. Instead of this textbook case of annexation, he extends his definition of "annexation" to include "occupation," and he doesn't even undertand that:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel annexed the Golan Heights in 1981, not 1967. And Velshi implies that Israel's capture of the Golan was from an aggressive war on Israel's part, not Syrian aggression in 1967 and 1973. He fails to mention that capturing land in a defensive war was never considered illegal before Israel did it. He also doesn't mention that Syria liked to shoot at Israeli civilians from the high ground and this is unacceptable.
> 
> None of that is relevant in his zeal to paint Israel as a unique thief of land.
> 
> Not to mention that Velshi is strikingly supportive of a regime that kills its own people. How do you think Assad would treat the "traitors" and "spies" that live in the Golan now if Israel would give it up as he demands?  Suddenly, human rights are not nearly as important as misapplying international law against the Jewish state.
> 
> 
> See the sleight of hand here? At first (above), Israel occupied the land from Jordan. Then, both Israel and Palestinians claim rights to the land. Finally, Velshi declares it unambiguously Palestinian land - and also claims that the "occupation" is illegal, when occupation is emphatically *not *illegal under international law.
> 
> 
> This is a *complete falsehood. *No Israeli settlements are built on land where Palestinians have been "kicked out." (The only possible exception is Hebron, on properties that had been stolen from Jews in the 1920s and 1930s.)  The Palestinians whose homes are demolished either built them illegally or they are families of terrorists. Say what you want about the circumstances, but Israel's Supreme Court rules on each and every one of these cases, and it has never been credibly accused of operating under false pretenses or accepting invalid legal justifications.
> 
> This is not only a smear job. It is riddled with basic errors and inaccuracies - all in one direction.
> 
> Which is par for the course for  MSNBC.
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .@AliVelshi of @MSNBC spouts lies and anti-Israel bias
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com


Hebron was an Arab village until 1500 when some Jews from Spain and Portugal settled there without incident.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> Did you all eat hummus in Russia or Poland?



Is the accusation only against Jews who came from Russia and Poland,
or is it to evade the fact most Israelis are refugees from the Middle East?

The irony is it doesn't make hummus turn into a Palestinian dish,
neither fried eggs for that matter... but to claim it's a crime
for Jews to eat hummus - does make one a xenophobe.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> The Jewish population of Palestine was a tiny minority. See the Ottoman census of 1870. They didn't even try to count the Bedouin. Why did the Palestinian Jews leave transjordan?



Read the post you're responding to - they were expelled.

Why do Arab supremacists assume minorities have no rights?


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> Read the post you're responding to - they were expelled.
> 
> Why do Arab supremacists assume minorities have no rights?


Poor things.


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> Is the accusation only against Jews who came from Russia and Poland,
> or is it to evade the fact most Israelis are refugees from the Middle East?
> 
> The irony is it doesn't make hummus turn into a Palestinian dish,
> neither fried eggs for that matter... but to claim it's a crime
> for Jews to eat hummus - does make one a xenophobe.


The Arab Jews left in 1948-56-67 and 73.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> Hebron was an Arab village until 1500 when some Jews from Spain and Portugal settled there without incident.



Hebron was never an Arab village.
There is an Arab colony in Hebron, that until Israeli independence,
prevent any Jewish presence, let alone prayer at the Cave of the Patriarchs.

Arabs settled in existing towns,
they didn't build any villages except for
a handful that bear names of foreign regions.
The only town they ever built, Ramle - as capital in substitution to Jerusalem.


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> Hebron was never an Arab village.
> There is an Arab colony in Hebron, that until Israeli independence,
> prevent any Jewish presence, let alone prayer at the Cave of the Patriarchs.
> 
> Arabs settled in existing towns,
> they didn't build any villages except for
> a handful that bear names of foreign regions.
> The only town they ever built, Ramle - as capital in substitution to Jerusalem.


The Zionist refugees destroyed over 300 Palestinian villages.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> The Zionist refugees destroyed over 300 Palestinian villages.


None of which Arabs built...

Guess we agree, Arabs weren't samrt
to expel the local Jews from all the holy cities.


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> None of which Arabs built...
> 
> Guess we agree, Arabs weren't samrt
> to expel the local Jews from all the holy cities.







__





						List of towns and villages depopulated during the 1947–1949 Palestine war - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> The Arab Jews left in 1948-56-67 and 73.



Those whom Arab supremacists frame as "Arab Jews" today,
initiated Zionism in response to the Arab pogroms...

Jews from Morocco built the first neighborhoods
outside the walls of Jerusalem and went to
Europe to influence Herzl's Rabbi.


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> Those whom Arab supremacists frame as "Arab Jews" today,
> initiated Zionism in response to the Arab pogroms...
> 
> Morrocan Jews built the first neighborhoods
> outside the walls of Jerusalem and went to
> Europe to influence Herzl's Rabbi.


You have to wonder why Jews chose to live all over the Arab world and North Africa for 2000 years.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> You have to wonder why Jews chose to live all over the Arab world and North Africa for 2000 years.


They lived in Asia, Africa,  Europe, Australia and the Americas


They lived all over because they could, just like anyone else.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> You have to wonder why Jews chose to live all over the Arab world and North Africa for 2000 years.



What is there to wonder,
Jews have been living all over the Middle East
and the Middeteranean for much longer than 2000 years.

When saying "Arab world"
do Arab supremacists assume the entire Middle East and Africa
belong to them, or that they gave birth to all civilizations before them?


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List of towns and villages depopulated during the 1947–1949 Palestine war - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org



An argument for why Jews should've been expelled from all holy cities,
or why Arabs didn't expect a response of such proportion?
Should Arab supremacists be treated more gently?

Try to explain your point.


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> An argument for why Jews should've been expelled from all holy cities,
> or why Arabs didn't expect a response of such proportion?
> 
> Try to explain your point.


Here's a bit of history that might help.



			King Abdullah bin Al-Hussein (1882-1951)


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> Here's a bit of history that might help.
> 
> 
> 
> King Abdullah bin Al-Hussein (1882-1951)



Without context, you don't seem to have a point.

Are you allowed to think,
have thoughts of your own,
or only repeat pointless nonesense?


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> Without context, you don't seem to have a point.
> 
> Do you have thoughts of yourself,
> an argument, or just trolling?


You didn't read it, did you.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> Here's a bit of history that might help.
> 
> 
> 
> King Abdullah bin Al-Hussein (1882-1951)



Another whiny Arab? LOL


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Here's a bit of history that might help.
> 
> 
> 
> King Abdullah bin Al-Hussein (1882-1951)


That is not history.

Try again.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> You didn't read it, did you.



If you can't find the relevant quote,
or even explain how it's relevant,
why should I waste my time?

Like talking to a mindless bot....


----------



## Sixties Fan

This chapter is based upon the essential article by Ben Dror Yemini, _“The Jewish Nakba,_” published in Ma’ariv on May 16, 2009, as well as Adi Schwartz’s important essay,_ “The Destruction of the Communities in Arab States: The Hidden Catastrophe_” in volume 43 of the journal, “Techelet.” Sometimes, the truth has no PR. With all the propaganda of the “_Nakba”_being pumped into us, basic facts such as the expulsion of Jews from Arab states have been abandoned and forgotten. In quantitative terms, the Jews who lived in Arab countries were not just viciously persecuted, tormented by pogroms and banished from their homes; they also left behind possessions – several times more than the amount left by the Arabs in Israel. Their suffering was not forgotten, but was deliberately concealed with the clear intention to tip the moral scale in favor of the Arabs.

There is no reason to pit a Palestinian narrative against a Zionist one. The truth is that narratives need to be avoided altogether, along with the word “narrative” itself, which has become a whitewashed generic term for Middle Eastern imagination, at best, and for an outright lie, most of the time. The Jews in Arab states went through hell; they were forcibly separated from their property, murdered by capricious mobs and in effect, expelled from their homes. So how is it that we never hear about it? First of all, because someone wanted to silence it, to hide the catastrophe of the Jews from Arab states and sweep it under the rug. The drama of their lives was muted. Pogroms accompanied by acts of rape, slaughter, robbery and pillaging of hundreds of thousands of Jews do not “sell,” and certainly, do not leave a mark on the Israeli public and its collective memory.

As Adi Schwartz pointed out in his article in the journal, _“Techelet,”_ in the last decade, Israel’s five universities produced only one doctoral thesis on the destruction of the Jewish communities in Arab countries. In contrast, over the same in the last decade, Israel’s universities produced only one doctoral thesis on the destruction of the Jewish communities in Arab countries. over the same period, thousands of articles were written on the Arab “_Nakba._”  period, thousands of articles and research papers were written by professors in Israeli academic institutions on the Arab “Nakba.” That fact – only one doctoral thesis – should arouse incredulity. While our “humanities” professors and elites join forces with the enemy’s claims and explain with furrowed faces full of gravity and forced compassion that Israel must correct the historical injustice caused to the Palestinians in 1948, a similar, if not worse, catastrophe – the catastrophe of the Jews in Arab countries – does not warrant even the smallest reference. Perhaps this is because it does not come with honors, awards and academic positions; perhaps because the parallel story ruins Palestinian “righteousness.”
-----
In the Hijaz, for example, the region of origin of the royal Hashemite dynasty, there lived three Jewish tribes: Banu Qaynuqa, Nadir and Banu Qurayzah. In the course of Islam’s takeover of Mecca and Medina, Mohammed’s army slaughtered the tribes, decimated their leaders, pillaged their property and took their wives and daughters captive. If you happen to hear the slogan, “Khaybar, Khaybar, ya yahud, jaish Mohammed sa-yaud” (Remember Khaybar, Khaybar, Jews, Mohammed’s army will yet return) at a Palestinian or Israeli Arab demonstration, you should know that this is a vulgar nationalist cry referring to the Battle of Khaybar, in which Mohammed, by means of lie and deceit, annihilated the proud Jewish tribe that lived there. In Spain as well, in a time and place that earned the title ‘The Golden Age’, at the glorious peak of Jewish integration into the culture and the fabric of life in the state under Islamic rule, the Jews’ lives were not always happy and content. The Golden Age included a series of harassments for the Jews. In 1011, in Muslim Cordoba, a massacre was orchestrated in which, according to various estimates, hundreds to thousands of Jews were murdered. In 1066, in Granada, Yosef Hanagid was executed, along with 4,000-6,000 Jews. One of the worst periods for the Jews began in 1148 with the rise of the Almohad dynasty (al Muwahhidūn) which ruled Spain and North Africa in the 12th and 13th centuries.

Today, Morocco is thought of as a place that was safe for Jews; there are those who remember fondly the history of the Jews in that country. Yet an examination of the facts teaches us that Morocco was a Muslim country where Jews suffered an extremely harsh series of massacres. In the eighth century, entire communities were wiped out by King Idris I. In Fez in 1033, 6,000 Jews were murdered by a Muslim mob. The rise of the Almohad dynasty caused a wave of mass murders. According to testimony from those times, several large massacres of Jews in Fez and Marrakesh were carried out. In 1465, there was another mass slaughter in Fez, one that spread to other cities in Morocco. In Tetouan, pogroms were conducted in 1790 and 1792. There, pillaging was rampant, women were raped and children murdered. Between 1864 and 1880, a series of pogroms were carried out against the Jews in Marrakesh and hundreds were massacred. In 1903, there was a pogrom in two cities, Taza and Settat, in which over 40 Jews were killed. In 1907, in Casablanca, approximately 30 Jews were murdered and many women were raped. In 1912, another massacre took place in Fez.

(full article online )









						The Jewish Nakba: basic facts have been abandoned and forgotten • Point of No Return
					

This week in the run-up to 14 May, the  day when  Israel’s independence was declared 74 years ago, articles about the Palestinian Nakba are already proliferating. Not one mentions the greater nakba of Jewish refugees driven from Arab countries. In fact only one doctoral thesis was produced about...




					www.jewishrefugees.org.uk


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Arab world has seen more displacement than almost any other region, as modern refugee populations from Iraq and Syria can attest. Although my family is Muslim, I was born in the Jewish Quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem, then under Jordanian control. In 1966, when I was 8 years old, the Jordanian government moved my family north of Jerusalem to the Shuafat Refugee Camp. It was the government of Jordan, not the government of Israel, that made me a refugee.

The difference between a Palestinian culture taught to celebrate grievance and an Israeli culture that idealizes freedom is stark. The Christian minority population, for example, has plummeted in Palestinian Authority-controlled territory. In Bethlehem, it has dropped from 84% to 22% in the last decade alone. Meanwhile, a party with Islamic foundations has a critical role in Israel’s current government, and Israel’s Supreme Court recently appointed its first Muslim justice, Khaled Kabub.

Palestinians should celebrate our rich heritage and, like our Jewish cousins, grieve our losses. But now is the time for negotiated reconciliation, not the perpetuation of generation-old victimhood. “Nakba Day” is part of the victimhood problem, not part of the forward-looking solution. Reconciliation happens only when both sides take a step back and acknowledge joint suffering. “Nakba Day” does the reverse. Whereas Israel has three times offered Palestinians peace, dignity and independence, Yasser Arafat launched — and Mahmoud Abbas has failed to contain — the violent public culture of the 2000-05 Second Intifada, for which the 1998 establishment of “Nakba Day” can be understood as a buildup.

The fetishization of Israel’s very existence as a catastrophe is a distortion that wounds our children and leads them to war and suicide bombing. Nearly 1 million Jews in Islamic lands faced their own nakba after Israel’s independence. Perhaps if more Palestinians understood this, we would better understand our Israeli neighbors.

We must teach our children about our neighbors, seek understanding and champion peace. The Palestinian leadership should reverse course on the incitement against Israel and Jews — including the spread of antisemitic stereotypes — in public education and media. Instead, Palestinian schoolchildren and citizens should learn the history, the joys and the traumas of our neighbors the Israelis, with whom we have a great deal in common. In so doing, we can lay the foundations of a new Middle East, and cities like my native Jericho in the Jordan Valley can blossom as hubs of international cooperation and commerce. This can only be achieved if we learn to understand our neighbors’ grief, not exacerbate our own.

“Nakba Day” does the opposite and should be abolished.

Bassem Eid is a Palestinian human-rights activist, political analyst and journalist.

(full article online)









						Abolish ‘Nakba Day’
					

PLO leader leader Yasser Arafat. Photo: World Economic Forum. JNS.org – Who in the Middle East has not been traumatized …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> That is not history.
> 
> Try again.


He said it in 1945.. it was contemporaneous.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> He said it in 1945.. it was contemporaneous.


He said.  Based on what?  Being a Hashemite Arab Muslim who gladly took 78% of the Jewish Homeland out of the Mandate for Palestine for the Jewish Homeland and expelled all the Jews from TranJordan ?    Without one ounce of remorse for it?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> He said it in 1945.. it was contemporaneous.


1). It was November 1947

2). The article comes from an Arab clan which was kicked out of Arabia by the Saudis around WWI.

3) He can call himself a Palestinian all he likes, but his clan is nothing but Arabs who had money and befriended the British and got lucky to get 78% of the Mandate for Palestine for nothing.

4). Muslims do not give a darn about the indigenous people of anywhere they invaded and conquered.  Just ask the Kurds, the Copts, the Berbers, the Yazidis, the Assyrians and every other Muslim conquered land in Asia and North Africa.


----------



## Sixties Fan

https://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/from-muhammad-al-durrah-to-shireen-abu-akleh/


----------



## rylah

Arab Caught with Treasure Trove of Archeological Artifacts
					

Police were looking for illegal weapons, instead they found an archaeological treasure trove.




					www.jewishpress.com
				





			https://www.jewishpress.com/news/israel/temple-mount-har-habayit/muslims-vandals-use-ancient-artifacts-to-block-jewish-visits-to-temple-mount/2022/04/18/


----------



## rylah

Yes, David defeated Goliath​“David against Goliath” “Few Against Many” was one of the ethos on which the story of Israel was built upon. The idea that the young and small state of Israel succeeded against all odds to repel the invasion of the armies of Transjordan, Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Saudia… with the assistance of many other Arab countries.
This is also why he is one of the focal points of the attacks of the “New Historians”, the New Historians said that Israel had the advantage both in manpower and in arms, and denied what they regarded as the myth of a heroic liberation war of the few against the many and so, to try to conclude that the 1948 war was not a war for the survival of the Jewish people against aggressive Arab armies, And so it contributes in a sense to the Nakba narrative.

On the surface, it seems that the facts supporting this assertion, just looks at the manpower of both sides, it is clear that the Israeli side had a much greater manpower over its enemies.






From Wikipedia page on the 1948 war

So is this the truth?
 Was the State of Israel really more powerful
than its enemies at the time of its establishment?

Manpower and actual Fighters​Here’s a small detail that most of those “new historians” do not give so much attention to:









As Yoav Gelber explained, This statistic, however, is somewhat misleading.

The Israeli figures included
the IDF’s entire logistic infrastructure, which lacked a parallel among the
invaders whose supply depots and base installations remained at home [1]

Asaf Agin explains that in the absence of preliminary sources, the researchers relied in their calculations on the “conscripts” of the IDF and these distorted the picture since the “services” component was not taken into account. For example, at the end of July 1948, only 42% of the conscripts were field troops and more than 25% were service (logistics, support, clerical, etc.). At the same time, the Arab’s data were the full fighters and hence a sharp distortion in the assessment of the balance of power [2]

Another breakdown of the forces shows that only some of the recruits were actual fighters [3]





Recruited from April 1, 1948 to July 17, from right to left, The total number of recruits, how many of them were field fighters and their general numerical ratio

On April 1, 1948. The Jewish Defensive Force had a total of 21,775 conscripts, of which 15,815 were field fighters. On July 17' it was 63,586, of which 27,428 were field fighters.

When considering this data, the result looks like this:





Asaf Agin’s data [2]

On the day of the invasion of the Arab armies, on May 15, 1948, the Jews had a defensive force of 22,363 against an Arab attack force of at least 36,450

What the numbers do not include is “Faza”, The Faza’a militia was the system where an Arab sheikh could call up the males in his district for attack or defence, The potential numbers are estimated at 50,000, but most of their activities was limited to their village area[4]

Arm Balance​At its first session on May 16, the provisional Israeli government heard prime minister and minister of defense David Ben-Gurion offer a stark survey of the military situation. “The number of [Jewish] recruits has exceeded 30,000, but only 40% of them are armed due to the lack of rifles,” he told his colleagues. “The [Arabs] are using artillery, aircraft and tanks, while we have a single tank and a number of [captured] British armored cars.” Ben-Gurion was confident that Israel would be able to turn the tables on the invading armies after the arrival of newly bought weapons. Until that happened, he anticipated a period of great uncertainty. “In my opinion we’ll be able to teach them a lesson they’ll remember for generations,” he said. “But for the time being the situation is extremely serious.” [5]





The arms on May 15, 1948 [6]

Israel suffered from a lack of heavy equipment from the start of the war. According to Morris, the Israelis had 12 armored cars of which four had canon, three tanks, three half-tracks and three patrol vessels. By the end of May Israel had acquired 10 additional tanks and about a dozen half tracks. Morris credits Israeli forces with about “one hundred armored trucks and personnel carriers,” but most of these, he admits were homemade vehicles created by “armor” plating trucks.

The Arab armies, according to Morris, had about 75 combat aircraft, 40 tanks, 500 armored vehicles, 140 field guns and 220 anti-aircraft and anti-tank guns. [7]

Morris also tells us that by July the Israelis had about 300 armored cars and half-tracks, 15 tanks, 150 artillery pieces and over a dozen fighter aircraft including Spitfires and Messerschmitt 109s (or Avia — a Czech imitation), as well as 16 bombers and 50 light and transport planes. while the Egyptians had at least 132 light tanks and 3 Sherman tanks, and the Syrians had 45 Renault R-35 and R-39 light tanks. [8]

Examples from the field​A collection of anecdotes that shows what was the state of balance of power in the war:

The Jewish Quarter in Jerusalem​For Jews:
Manpower: 200
Machine guns: 2
Mortars: 1
Shells: 95
Cannons:0
Armored:0

For Arabs:
Manpower: 700 +Hundreds of gang members
Machine guns: 25
Mortars: 6 (4 heavy)
Shells: 2,000
Cannons: 12
Armored: 4
[9]





Haifa​The British estimated that in the battle for Haifa, some ‘2,000’ Arab militiamen were set against ‘400 trained Jews backed by an indeterminate number of reserves [10]

Battle of Mishmar HaEmek​On 4 April 1948, about 1,000 Arab Liberation Army (ALA) militiamen launched an attack on the kibbutz.[11] They were initially opposed by 170 Jews and later, two companies of the Palmach, “less than 300 boys.”[12]

Battles of the Kinarot Valley​On May 20,
Some 380 Jewish fighters stopped an attack of 1,500 Syrian soldiers armed with 12 tanks and 18 armored vehicles [13]





Conclusion​Contrary to the claims of the “Mythbusters”, the young state of Israel really had to survive an attack by Arab armies with a quantitative and qualitative advantage, in manpower and arms.
Against all odds.

For referenced sources read -


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> He said.  Based on what?  Being a Hashemite Arab Muslim who gladly took 78% of the Jewish Homeland out of the Mandate for Palestine for the Jewish Homeland and expelled all the Jews from TranJordan ?    Without one ounce of remorse for it?


I know. The Zionists wanted all the land and a piece of Lebanon and Syria, but other people already lived there.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> I know. The Zionists wanted all the land and a piece of Lebanon and Syria, but other people already lived there.


Your ignorance and disgust for Jews, or rather Israelis, is well known.

Keep not caring about any facts.  It is so enjoyable to witness.  UGHHHHHH !!!!


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Your ignorance and disgust for Jews, or rather Israelis, is well known.
> 
> Keep not caring about any facts.  It is so enjoyable to witness.  UGHHHHHH !!!!


You can't dispute that Muslims and Christians already lived there for thousands of years.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> You can't dispute that Muslims and Christians already lived there for thousands of years.



There haven't been neither Muslims nor Christians for "thousands of years",
your knowledge of the basic history is lacking, to say the least.

Are you a member of the largest illiterate group on earth?









						A Note on Arabic Literacy and Translation - ALTA Language Services
					

Greece annually translates five times more books from English than the entire Arab world, and currently, 65 million Arab adults are illiterate. These



					www.altalang.com


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> There haven't been neither Muslims nor Christians for "thousands of years",
> your knowledge of the basic history is lacking, to say the least.
> 
> Are you a member of the largest illiterate group on earth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Note on Arabic Literacy and Translation - ALTA Language Services
> 
> 
> Greece annually translates five times more books from English than the entire Arab world, and currently, 65 million Arab adults are illiterate. These
> 
> 
> 
> www.altalang.com


Arabs were in Palestine and the Levant before Islam.  The Akkadians from Arabia we're there long before Judaism.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> I know. The Zionists wanted all the land and a piece of Lebanon and Syria, but other people already lived there.



I don't see how claiming your legal entitlement,
to what is rightfully yours can be considered a crime.

But is it out of consideration for the involved people _'living there'_,
that Arab imperialists seek exclusive domination over the
entire Middle East, North Africa...and then some?

*Arafat: "We want one Arab state from Morocco to Arabia"*


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> I don't see how claiming your legal entitlement,
> to what is rightfully yours can be considered a crime.
> 
> But is it out of consideration for the involved people _'living there'_,
> that Arab imperialists seek exclusive domination over the
> entire Middle East, North Africa...and then some?
> 
> *Arafat: "We want one Arab state from Morocco to Arabia"*


Jews are a tiny minority do you want the whole Middle East? Nobody wants a Caliphate.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> Jews are a tiny minority do you want the whole Middle East? Nobody wants a Caliphate.



Unlike Arab supremacists
Jews never claimed exclusive
domination over the entire Middle East.
_
'Caliphate'_, i.e exclusive Arab domination is
exactly how Islamists incite their useful idiots.

Is there anything that Islamists seek beyond the
_*'janna' *_of sexual perversion and imperialist greed?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> The Zionists wanted all the land and a piece of Lebanon and Syria, but other people already lived there.



That's outrageous!!

Thank goodness Muslims never wanted any land that other people already lived on.


----------



## surada

Toddsterpatriot said:


> That's outrageous!!
> 
> Thank goodness Muslims never wanted any land that other people already lived on.


Arabs have been there since the Akkadians and Amorites.. long before Judaism.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> Arabs have been there since the Akkadians and Amorites.. long before Judaism.



That's awesome!

Thank goodness Muslims never wanted any land that other people already lived on.


----------



## surada

Toddsterpatriot said:


> That's awesome!
> 
> Thank goodness Muslims never wanted any land that other people already lived on.


There were very few Jews in Palestine. See the Ottoman census of 1870.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> There were very few Jews in Palestine. See the Ottoman census of 1870.


Stop this fake reason to deny Jews the right to their ancient homeland.

No one, including you, does it to any other people on the planet.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Stop this fake reason to deny Jews the right to their ancient homeland.
> 
> No one, including you, does it to any other people on the planet.


The Palestinians are descended from Jewish farmers who didn't leave in the first century.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> There were very few Jews in Palestine. See the Ottoman census of 1870.



That's awesome!

Thank goodness Muslims never wanted any land that other people already lived on.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> The Palestinians are descended from Jewish farmers who didn't leave in the first century.



The conflict is between Jews and Jews? Then why are you whining so much about it?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Palestinians are descended from Jewish farmers who didn't leave in the first century.


They are not, and you need to stop telling that lie.

Palestinian JEWS, are descendants from any Jew back then.  Just as are all other Jews who are indigenous from that area and migrated with their religion to other parts of the world.  Because they could, because they were forced to.  No matter what the reason THOSE are the indigenous people of the land, and not  Arabs who came from the Arabian Peninsula.

Palestinian Arabs are descendants of the invading Arabs, second invasion after the Kurds, and all other invading colonizing migrating Arab who moved to the area since the 7th century, and Especially since 1896, then hundreds of thousands of Arabs moved to the region due to jobs offered  by Jews or after 1920, after Al Husseini and other Arab leaders begged Arabs to move to the region.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> They are not, and you need to stop telling that lie.
> 
> Palestinian JEWS, are descendants from any Jew back then.  Just as are all other Jews who are indigenous from that area and migrated with their religion to other parts of the world.  Because they could, because they were forced to.  No matter what the reason THOSE are the indigenous people of the land, and not  Arabs who came from the Arabian Peninsula.
> 
> Palestinian Arabs are descendants of the invading Arabs, second invasion after the Kurds, and all other invading colonizing migrating Arab who moved to the area since the 7th century, and Especially since 1896, then hundreds of thousands of Arabs moved to the region due to jobs offered  by Jews or after 1920, after Al Husseini and other Arab leaders begged Arabs to move to the region.


Jews are Canaanites from Syria. Where do you think Abraham was from?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Jews are Canaanites from Syria. Where do you think Abraham was from?


From UR, which is in Mesopotamia, today's Iraq.

Geography, Geography, Geography.

While Abraham and his son were from Ur, guess who joined the Jewish tribes with time?  The people who lived in Canaan and formed the Jewish people with the 12 tribes.

Got it now?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> From UR, which is in Mesopotamia, today's Iraq.
> 
> Geography, Geography, Geography.
> 
> While Abraham and his son were from Ur, guess who joined the Jewish tribes with time?  The people who lived in Canaan and formed the Jewish people with the 12 tribes.
> 
> Got it now?


Nope. There was no Ur and n Chaldeans for hundreds of years later than Abraham. He was from Urfa near Haran in Syria.









						Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 26:5 - King James Version
					

And thou shalt speak and say before the LORD thy God, A Syrian ready to perish was my father, and he went down into Egypt, and sojourned there with a few, and became there a nation, great, mighty, and populous:




					www.biblegateway.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Nope. There was no Ur and n Chaldeans for hundreds of years later than Abraham. He was from Urfa near Haran in Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 26:5 - King James Version
> 
> 
> And thou shalt speak and say before the LORD thy God, A Syrian ready to perish was my father, and he went down into Egypt, and sojourned there with a few, and became there a nation, great, mighty, and populous:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.biblegateway.com


Try the Hebrew original one.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Try the Hebrew original one.


Post it. There was no Ur of the Chaldeans.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Post it. There was no Ur of the Chaldeans.


What are you trying to delegitimize here?

You are clearly trying to delegitimize something.

Be clear about it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

I looked up the Maarat HaMachpelah, Hebron's Cave of the Patriarchs in Google Maps.  Here's what it found:






Muslims have been usurping Jewish holy sites from the beginnings of Islam. But there is no reason for Google to go along with it. 

Let's them call it the Ibrahim Mosque in Arabic, but it is an insult to Jews to make that the default name. 











						Google Maps calls second holiest Jewish spot by its usurped Muslim name
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

This is the Palestinian modus operandi, a deleterious pattern that demonstrates utter contempt for antiquity and religious sites.

On October 12, 2000, Palestinian rioters in Jericho stormed an ancient Byzantine-era synagogue known as the “Shalom Al Israel Synagogue,” with the intent to destroy its well-preserved central medallion bearing the inscription “Shalom al Israel.” They failed to destroy the precious mosaic floor but that does not negate the nefarious intent.

When the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem fell to Jordanian/Palestinian forces in 1948, all Jewish institutions – including the impressive Hurva Synagogue – were either dynamited or converted to garbage dumps or animal pens.

In this regard, the Palestinians have shown themselves to be no different than the Taliban and ISIS. In 2001, the Taliban destroyed the one-of-a-kind Bamiyan Buddha statues in the name of religion. Then in 2015, ISIS destroyed the ancient & irreplaceable antiquities at Palmyra, also in the name of religion. Palestinian vandalism at Joseph’s Tomb, and their efforts to destroy other culturally and religiously important sites, also in the name of Islam, reveal their true colors.

Palestinian apologists predictably remained mute in the face of the latest Palestinian outrage at Joseph’s Tomb. Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, organizations all too willing to spread antisemitic blood libels against the Jewish State, did not utter a single word of condemnation.

Joseph’s Tomb, Rachel’s Tomb, the Hurva and Jericho Synagogues were not symbols of the so-called occupation. They were symbols of Judaism and that was enough to arouse the ire of those bent on genocide and ethnic cleansing.

A society that maintains a near-maniacal intolerance and hatred for other religions or cultures, and acts upon that hatred in a violent and destructive manner, is undeserving of statehood.

(full article online)









						The Desecration of Joseph’s Tomb: What Lessons Can Be Drawn? | United with Israel
					

Does a society that maintains a near-maniacal intolerance for other religions or cultures deserve statehood?




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

With the recent eruption of Palestinian violence on the Temple Mount, followed by the murder of three Israelis from the town of Elad, it is worth reflecting on the history of a people, until recently non-existent, who seem determined to define themselves by killing Jews.

Modern conceptions of “Palestine” date from the mid-19th century when British artist David Roberts followed the trail of the ancient Israelites from Egypt to their “Holy Land.” His lithographs provided stunning vistas of Hebron, Jerusalem, Jericho, Nablus and other ancient Jewish sites. As yet, there were no “Palestinian” locations to include. 

NOT LONG AFTERWARD SCOTTISH WRITER ALEXANDER KEITH, IDENTIFYING THE LAND OF ISRAEL AS THE “HOLY LAND,” DESCRIBED JEWS AS “A PEOPLE WITHOUT A COUNTRY; EVEN AS THEIR OWN LAND … IS A COUNTRY WITHOUT A PEOPLE.” BRITISH LORD SHAFTESBURY CITED “THE ANCIENT AND RIGHTFUL LORDS OF THE SOIL, THE JEWS!” PALESTINIANS WERE NOT MENTIONED. 

ON THE EVE OF WORLD WAR I CHAIM WEIZMANN, WHO DECADES LATER WOULD BECOME THE FIRST PRESIDENT OF ISRAEL, SAID: “THERE IS A COUNTRY WHICH IS CALLED PALESTINE, A COUNTRY WITHOUT A PEOPLE, AND, ON THE OTHER HAND, THERE EXISTS THE JEWISH PEOPLE, AND IT HAS NO COUNTRY.” WHAT ELSE WAS NECESSARY, HE WONDERED, “THAN TO FIT THE GEM INTO THE RING, TO UNITE THIS PEOPLE WITH THIS COUNTRY?” 

Although Arabs in small numbers had lived in Palestine for centuries, with prosperous elite families concentrated in Jerusalem, there were no signs of an Arab national identity before World War I. Ironically, budding signs of Jewish nationalism, identified as Zionism, were its primary stimulus. But it took time. Shortly before the State of Israel was born, Arab historian Philip Hitti stated: “There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not.” Without Palestine there could not be Palestinians.

Not until Israel defeated and humiliated Arab countries in the Six-Day War (1967), ending Jordanian control over West Bank Arabs, did a distinctive Palestinian identity begin to emerge. Why was it, wondered Walid Shoebat of Bethlehem, “that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian.” Even PLO military commander Zuhair Mushin acknowledged: “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation.” The vision of a Palestinian state, he recognized, was merely “a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.”

Without a history of their own, Palestinians plundered Jewish history to define themselves. The ancient Canaanites were identified as the original “Palestinians.” So, too, were Jebusites, the Biblical inhabitants of Jerusalem. Based on these fanciful claims an imaginary “Palestinian” history of 5,000 years was implanted in the Land of Israel. 

Palestinians’ identity theft has taken strange turns. They have absurdly equated the Nakba (disaster) of 1948, when Arabs launched — and lost — a war of Jewish extermination, with the Holocaust. Indeed, Holocaust denial was the core of the doctoral dissertation of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. He preposterously claimed that Zionist leaders were “fundamental partners” of the Nazis, jointly responsible for the slaughter of six million Jews.

Palestinians have relied upon the model of the Israeli Law of Return to claim that millions of “refugees” — fewer than thirty thousand of whom are still alive — should be permitted to return to the land they abandoned in 1947-48 during the Arab war to annihilate Jews. Teenage Arab girls have been taught to equate their plight with that of Holocaust victim Anne Frank. 

So it is that a people without a national history until well into the 20th century has attempted to persuade a gullible world audience that Palestinians are the rightful inheritors of Jewish history — and land. Ironically, even the holy Koran (which makes frequent mention of Jews but does not mention Palestinians) was interpreted by Muslims more than a millennium ago to affirm that the Land of Israel was given by God to “the children of Israel” as a perpetual covenant. Murdering Jews was not mentioned. But as scholar and novelist Dara Horn aptly titles her new book, People Love Dead Jews.










						When Arabs Became Palestinians
					

Israeli troops overlook Jerusalem’s Old City, during the Six-Day War, June 1967. Photo: Wikimedia Commons. With the recent eruption of …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Peter Beinart tweeted on Sunday, "The Jewish state in the UN plan would have been 40-50% Arab, which is why, according to Benny Morris,  Ben-Gurion felt that "without some sort of massive displacement of Arabs from the area of the Jewish state-to-be there could be no viable ‘Jewish’ state.” 

He is quoting from his own article last year on Nakba Day in his Jewish Currents magazine.

If you read Benny Morris you can see that Beinart is wrong in ascribing this viewpoint to Ben Gurion. But worse than that, Morris discusses the issue in detail, with Zionist leaders swinging between opposition, support and pretending the issue will go away. Not only that, Beinart is quoting Morris discussing the 1930s, not 1948  - the displacement that some Jews envisioned meant the British moving Arabs elsewhere because Arab violence made it clear that Jews and Arabs would not live in peace together, which was the original Zionist idea according to most.

Beinart is copying and pasting half-truths to make Jews look like bigots.

Here is Morris from The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited, with as much context as I can place here. I italicize Beinart's quote.
--------
Beinart, here and in his article, implies that "transfer" is an inhumane Jewish Zionist desire for a Jewish majority country. But Morris makes clear that  this was a reluctant position, and Arab violence and pressure on the British to stop Jewish immigration is what forced the Zionists to think about transfer as a response. The entire point of Zionism was to have a safe haven for Jews to live freely in the Jewish homeland; if the Arabs insist that they will never accept such a national home, there was not much choice but to consider how best to separate the populations so the Jewish minority is not slaughtered.

Beinart gets very dishonest by implying that "transfer" is forcible displacement. But that is not at all what was meant, certainly not before 1948. Morris writes:

------
Ben Gurion at that time was suggesting *voluntary *transfer and *buying *Arab land from those who *want *to move to Transjordan.  There is nothing the slightest bit immoral about paying someone to move elsewhere if they have no objections.

Peter Beinart doesn't want you to know that. (I'd love to hear Benny Morris' opinion of Beinart's quoting him.)

Beinart's dishonesty doesn't end there. Before the Fourth Geneva Convention, the idea of transferring populations to avoid civil war was almost universally considered better than the alternative - tens of millions were transferred in the years after World War II, especially in Eastern Europe and India/Pakistan.  The planner of a project to transfer two million Christians and Muslims between Greece and Turkey,  Fridtjof Nansen, was given the 1923 Nobel Peace Prize.

Using 2022's moral standards to damn Jews in the 1930s and 1940s for considering a practice that was not only accepted but even praised is just another manifestation of antisemitism. This is especially true because the Jews at the time who were facing genocide and wanted to save their people in the face of implacable Arab opposition and British acquiescence to Arab demands.

Like all good propagandists, Peter Beinart only looks at one side of the ledger.

As usual, Peter Beinart writes slander - but with just enough truth to dazzle the haters and to be able to say, "I didn't lie!"  This one tweet shows that he is adept at communicating lies by artfully juggling facts and timelines while ignoring the context, always with the intent of denigrating and insulting Jews who had to make life-saving decisions.


(full article online)









						Peter Beinart's dishonesty on Ben Gurion and "transfer"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

After the war, the Arab refugees went to other Arab nations: 100,000 to Lebanon, 75,000 to Syria and 70,000 to Jordan. 280,000 went to the West Bank, which Jordan annexed, and 190,000 went to the Gaza Strip, over which Egypt maintained military control. Not one of these Arab nations resettled these people. At the same time, Arab nations expelled their Jewish populations in droves, without the pretext of war in their lands. Morocco expelled 260,000, Iraq expelled 129,000 and so on. This is not to mention the hundreds of thousands of European Jews who were displaced after the Holocaust. None of these people languished in camps and demanded to be returned to their homes. They made their way to Israel, where a nation in its infancy – and still reeling from an existential war – resettled them and gave them full rights as citizens.

The Arabs continued their effort to destroy Israel and told the refugees situated in their countries not to worry – once all the Jews are dead, you can go home. All of this was under the watchful eye of the United Nations, which created useless organizations to help facilitate the continued oppression of the Palestinian people by other Arab nations and their own leaders. When Israel won the Six-Day War, they did not conquer Palestinian lands in the West Bank and Gaza Strip – they conquered Jordanian and Egyptian lands that contained a Palestinian population that had languished in refugee camps for two decades. Unlike Jordan and Egypt, they did not annex this land and leave the refugees as second-class citizens.

The Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) then chose to launch decades of terrorism against the Jewish people. Israel attempted peace with the PLO and the Palestinian Authority many times over the years. When land was offered, it was rejected and terrorist attacks were launched. When Israel left Gaza in 2005, it became a safe haven for Hamas and thousands of rocket attacks.

The problems the Palestinian people face are numerous indeed. They lack resources, jobs, education and healthcare. This is not the fault of Israel. It is due to decades of exploitation by Arab nations that used them as political pawns until they realized that Israel isn't going anywhere. Now the Arab world is bored with the Palestinian "catastrophe" and has begun to sign peace agreements with Israel to ensure their survival against an emboldened Iran. Israel has become an economic and technological powerhouse with a military envied by almost every other country in the world. Yet the Palestinians are trapped in the past, and blame the Jews for the problems inflicted upon them by their own leaders.

Tlaib's parents emigrated to America and appear to have infused their daughter with the falsehood that all the problems faced by their people were the fault of the Jews. The resolution she has filed has nothing to do with facts, history or the correction of injustices. It's about the use of her position as a member of Congress to settle her vendetta against a people who didn't have the courtesy to allow themselves to be pushed into the Mediterranean Sea. Tlaib has chosen not to use her power and position to help the Palestinians, she uses them as a weapon against the Jewish state. In doing so, she is as bad – if not worse – than the nations that refused to help her great-grandparents after 1948, and her actions will ensure that the Palestinian people continue to live in abject poverty for generations to come.

(full article online)



			https://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/the-nakba-myth-hijacks-congress/


----------



## Sixties Fan

> Andrew Lawler's book Under Jerusalem: The Buried History of the World's Most Contested City, surveys some of the colorful and fraught episodes that have played out underground over the past century and a half. 1865 saw the creation of the Palestine Exploration Fund in London, where the founders included the archbishop of York, who "called for a new crusade to rescue from darkness and oblivion much of the history of that country in which we all take so dear an interest." The explorers were inflamed by the possibility of grand findings from Jewish antiquity.
> 
> A central problem affecting many Western observers is their narrative of a city "sacred to three faiths." There is a failure to understand the unique centrality of Jerusalem in Judaism or to admit that the city is of interest to other religions only because it was sacred to Jews first. Jerusalem has existed at the center of Jewish consciousness since Rome was a village on the Tiber and it has that role in no other religion.
> 
> Christianity cares about Jerusalem because Jesus and his followers were Jews who orbited the Jewish ritual center on the Temple Mount. Islam built the Dome of the Rock on the Temple Mount because that was the site of the Jewish temple. Both religions have more important cities elsewhere, but came here to claim they had supplanted the numerically insignificant but historically imposing natives of Judea. The lack of interest in archaeology on the part of Arab residents is related to the common, and politically dangerous, knowledge that if you dig past the city's Islamic and Christian layers, what you're going to find is Jewish.


















						The Treasure of the Jews - Jewish Review of Books
					

The seductive idea that the real Jerusalem lurks somewhere beneath the actual city, with its grocery stores, traffic, and inconveniently present residents, has motivated archaeologists and journalists since the 1800s.




					jewishreviewofbooks.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

I think it is time to give these people a chance to show their support for Miller again. Because last week he went full antisemite on Twitter, and no sane person could think that he was only attacking "Zionists."

Here are excerpts of his thread:




> There seems to be some confusion about who the occupation for Palestine began. Jonathan @Freedland appears to believe it started in 1967. But it didn't.
> 
> So did the occupation begin in 1948 - the #Nakba - when thousands were massacred and 750,000 expelled? No, not then either.
> 
> Did the occupation begin in 1909? That was when the first ‘Kibbutz’ was created in Umm Juni, by Arthur Ruppin, the head of the Zionist Organization office in Palestine....
> 
> No, not 1909: what about 1878? ‘Petah Tikva’, often described as the ‘Mother of settlements’, was created then with financial help from Baron Edmond de Rothschild. but, it did not begin then, either.
> 
> What about 1815 when a settlement was created in Hebron by the extremist Chabad-Lubavitch sect (which originated in Russia/Ukraine)? Today it is headquartered in Brooklyn, New York City. Here is what it says about Hebron.
> 
> But no, it may have been earlier: Russian Chabadniks had created settlements in Safed from 1777.
> 
> Things you should know about Chabad-Lubavitch: It's a supremacist organisation at the extreme end of the settler movement. According to Shin Bet ( Israeli intelligence agency) it’s responsible for about 80% of ‘price-tag’ revenge attacks on Palestinians.
> _(Here he links to a video from that authoritative source on Judaism, Iran's PressTV.)
> _
> So, in conclusion: The settlement and occupation of Palestine has been a long time coming. The descendant's_ [sic] _of the earliest settlers are still there continuing the #Nakba through violence and land theft. Time to end the occupation.



David Miller is saying that the continuous return of Jews to Eretz Yisrael over the centuries is all evil Zionist settlement and occupation. 

No one would mistake the Chabadniks from the 18th century for modern Zionists. They moved to the Holy Land for the same reasons Jewish groups have been moving to Palestine since the Second Temple was destroyed - because that is the center of Jewish religious life. 

In the 13th century many prominent French rabbis moved to Palestine. Nachmanides moved to Israel in 1267. The Arizal, Rabbi Isaac Luria, moved to Tzfat in 1579. Many Chassidic leaders and their followers  moved to Tzfat and Tiberias in the 18th century. 

Miller also cannot distinguish Chabad from any other religious Jews. Chabad isn't responsible for 80% of "price tag" attacks - that's completely absurd, and the Shin Bet never said that. To Miller, any Jew wearing a kippah is the same. 

Miller is saying that any Jew who moved to Eretz Yisrael in the centuries before modern Zionism is an illegal settler and occupier. His link to PressTV's video about Chabad (which also conflates Chabad with all religious Jews)  shows not only his ignorance and lack of critical thinking abilities when it comes to Jews, it proves his own hatred of Jews who are public about their observance.

He is saying that not only the Jews who moved to Israel from elsewhere are stealing Palestinian land, but the Jews who lived there beforehand and their descendants are also illegal thieves of the land. Even the PLO and Iranian leaders say that Jews who lived in Israel before 1917 are "Palestinian" and can stay when the other Jews are ethnically cleansed - but that opinion is too pro-"Zionist" for David Miller.

So it is time to explicitly ask Noam Chomsky and Judith Butler and Norman FInkelstein if they still think that David Miller has no antisemitic tendencies. Do these academics who claim so loudly that they are against antisemitism denounce David Miller's clear hatred for Jews, not Zionists?

Pick names from the hundreds of academics and Jews who defended him from the links above, and tweet asking them what they think of someone who calls Jews who moved to Palestine for religious reasons, centuries before modern Zionism, "thieves." 


(full article online)










						David Miller goes full blown antisemite. His defenders look like morons.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

Did Abraham use a smartphone?​One anachronistic untruth is the same as any other. If ancient Hebron can baldly be called "Palestinian", any claim can be accepted. Op-ed.​

The question, of course, is anachronistic and the answer is no. The first smartphone was released (by IBM) in 1994, less than 30 years ago. Abraham,,Patriarch of the Jewish nation, lived 4000 years earlier. He could not possibly have used a technology invented thousands of years later. 

That is why no-one suggests Abraham Avinu (Hebrew for the Patriarch Abraham), used a smartphone. That revisionist history would be too laughably obvious to try to put over on the public.. However, UNESCO does seriously allege that Abraham and Sarah’s tomb, a world heritage site, is “Palestinian”.

That’s elevating anachronism to sacrosanct status – because the term “Palestinian” is every bit as new an invention as the smartphone is. “Palestinian”, describing members of the Arab Umma who live in Eretz Israel, was coined in the twentieth century – 4000 years after the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron was purchased and consecrated by Abraham Avinu.

Of course, UNESCO has its excuses ready. UNESCO says that the Cave of the Patriarchs is “Palestinian” because Hebron is situated in what they intend to be a “Palestinian” state. But this too is incorrect. First, Hebron belongs to the Jewish people, as recognized by the unanimous and irrevocable internationally legal decision at San Remo. Second, the area allocated to the Palestinian Authority in the Oslo accords does not include the Cave of the Patriarchs. Third, the Palestinian Authority is not a state.

Fibbing has turned into a serious international problem. During COVID, wide-spread fibs caused untold millions to refuse crucial vaccines. 

When fibs in the “Palestinian” arena first surfaced, the United States justified its status as the world’s superpower by refusing to take the fibs lying down. In 1989, the PLO first tried to elbow its way into the World Health Organization (WHO). But international organizations like WHO are joined only by states, not by social groups, political parties, or terrorist organizations. The PLO was pretending to be a state, and the international community was expected to acquiesce in the fib. 

James Baker, then US Secretary of State, could hardly be accused of oozing pro-Israel sentiment. But he blocked the Palestinian Arab “we are a state” fib. Baker said the U.S. should “make no further contributions to any international organization which makes any change in the PLO’s status as an observer.” That was the end of the Palestinian fib in WHO.

The US Congress supported Baker’s no-fibbing-on-my-watch position, enacting Baker’s warning into law. This anti-fib law, still intact, says that US money will not support organizations which pretend there is a “Palestinian state”.

But now, Secretary of State Antony Blinken - seemingly cut from different cloth than his predecessor - is feverishly persuading Congress to rescind the anti-fib law. And since Congress is understandably reluctant - Blinken has resorted to assuring Congress that Israel itself, supports rescinding America’s historic anti-fib law.

(full article online)









						Did Abraham use a smartphone?
					

One anachronistic untruth is the same as any other. If ancient Hebron can baldly be called "Palestinian", any claim can be accepted. Op-ed.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Al Quds quotes Israel Hayom, after running it through their antisemitic phrase filter:




> Today, Wednesday, Hebrew media reported that about 40,000 Jewish *settlers *have *stormed Al-Aqsa Mosque *since last May 2021.
> 
> A report by the Hebrew newspaper, Israel Hayom, indicated that "this is a new annual record in the number of* Jewish intrusion into Al-Aqsa,*" according to its claim.



I don't think Israel Hayom used the terms in bold.

The Temple Mount is open to Jews approximately 200 days of the year. That means that only 200 Jews visit every day on the average.

By point of comparison, 40,000 Muslims visit the Temple Mount every single Friday (maybe a little less when it rains.) 

So while the Palestinian Arabs are trying to incite anger and hatred by throwing around numbers like 40,000, it is really a small number. The numbers are slowly increasing, but it is hardly the hordes of Jews it is portrayed as in Arab media.










						"40,000 settlers have stormed Al-Aqsa since last May"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

ZURAYK SUMMARIZED the failure by predicting that If a Jewish state is actually established in Palestine and is internationally secured through recognition by the United Nations and by individual states, it will not be long until it has the largest air force in the Near East and, God forbid, a merchant marine and a fleet which will dominate these shores in their entirety as well as an organized, mechanized army supported by abundant material and the most hellish modern weapons. This state will open its doors to thousands of immigrants who will pour into it from Europe and to millions of dollars which will flood it from America.


Thus, he argued, it will become a human and financial force which will be difficult to contain in its own area and which will overflow into the remainder of the Arab countries by every possible means and thus constitute, during a situation of world disturbance, a great danger to those countries.


This danger, Zurayk wrote, was aggravated by the fact that Israel occupied the coast and sea passages, and was established in a vital area between Arab countries. Palestine, he claimed, was the bridge between these countries and if a foreign power conquered it, relations between them would be disrupted, and the chain of cooperation and unity would be broken.


In the intervening 70+ years the Nakba, or catastrophe, which Zurayk emphatically defined as the failure of ineffectual Arab states, who sought “the abolition of partition and the eradication of Zionism” only to “leave the battle having lost a not inconsiderable portion of the soil of Palestine” has been disingenuously redefined as the expulsion of Palestinians from part of the proposed State of Palestine.


In fact, in his book Zurayk made no mention of the Palestinians as a people or the formation of the State of Israel. The Nakba was the self-inflicted wound of the Arabs, not of Israel.


The politicized hijacking of a term the Nakba which bemoaned the absence of pan-Arab unity and castigated Arabs for their failings, into a term of abuse against Israel is a calculated and continuous act of deception, designed to absolve Arab states of blame and condemn Israel for successfully defending itself against attack.


Zurayk’s dismal conclusion on the outlook for Arab youth was as prescient as it was depressing. He accurately predicted that the absence of Arab unity would cause future generations to “fall prey to some destructive movement and find their consolation in uproar and disturbance for its own sake, regardless of the result”. Seventy years later, the pointless brutality of Hamas, Hezbollah and the PLO shows just how devastating the Nakba, or Arab failure, has been for Arab hope and Arab lives.

(full article online)









						The 'Nakba' - catastrophe or success? - comment
					

Today, Palestinians and their apologists worldwide should stop to consider these realities and face up to the fact that the Nakba describes their failure, not Israel’s success.




					www.jpost.com


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## Sixties Fan

*•    Mount Meron in northern Israel is in “Palestine”

•    The Sea of Galilee in northern Israel is “in Palestine”

•    The Hula Lake in northern Israel is “in Palestine”

•    The Red Sea at Israel's southern border is “in Palestine”

•    “Palestine” is “27,000 sq. km.” – i,e., includes all of Israel*

During the month of Ramadan, official PA TV entertained viewers with different quizzes. One evident goal was to reinforce the PA’s vision of a world without Israel by presenting all of the State of Israel as “Palestine.” The answers of the participants, who were all residents of refugee camps, confirmed that the PA policy of denying Israel's right to exist in any borders – which Palestinian Media Watch has shown the PA has taught to Palestinians for decades - has become rooted among Palestinians everywhere. 

Correct answers denying Israel's existence were rewarded by the PLO Department of Refugee Affairs with 20 Jordanian dinars, approximately $28.

In one quiz, a participant was asked about the borders of “Palestine.” Without blinking an eye, the man cited “the Mediterranean Sea, the Jordan River, Lebanon, and the Gulf of Aqaba” as borders, completely ignoring Israel's existence:

(full article online)









						PLO, PA TV promote world without Israel - even in TV quizzes | PMW Analysis
					

PLO, PA TV promote world without Israel - even in TV quizzes




					palwatch.org


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## Sixties Fan

The first step taken by the liberated ethnic folks to harm our plaintiffs and all Jews, is to disaggregate Israel from the Jews, insisting that they are unrelated, that Judaism is distinct from Zionism.  Once you’re convinced that the Jews have no roots in the land of Israel, you need another reason to explain what they are doing there now.  The Consortium solves this problem by drawing on its deep well of hostility to Western civilization, explaining that the Jews’ presence in Israel is an exercise in Western imperialism, and so an exercise of power by white people over people of color.  The measures Israel takes to defend its citizens (all of its citizens, one might point out, if one actually wanted to understand reality, including the 20% who are Arabs) from the efforts to eliminate them are thus transformed into “genocide,” “apartheid” and “ethnic cleansing.”  If this is where you start, it’s no surprise that the end result was a public LA Teachers’ Union seminar on how to teach Ethnic Studies at which Palestinian advocate Celine Qussiny taught the teachers that “we have to always be confronting Zionism.”  Qussiny went on to explain that when she’s talking about Zionism, she’s “talking about a political, settler-colonial ideology that justifies ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians from their central homeland,” and described Israel as a “fascist dictatorship.”

All of these ideas are incorporated into the Liberated Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum.  This is what that Consortium wants your kids, and all kids, taught about Israel, starting in pre-kindergarten.  When those kids grow up and are shown pictures of children someone claims were killed by the Israeli army, what reaction do we think those children will have?  How much evidence will they need to collectively convict the Jewish State and Jews?

(full article online)









						California’s Ethnic Studies Curriculum is Hiding Its Anti-Jewish and Anti-Israel Teachings
					

Our lawsuit seeks to expose the use in Los Angeles public schools of the same hateful teaching materials previously rejected by Governor Newsom.




					jewishjournal.com


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## Sixties Fan

[ Surada is at it again, on another thread ]



surada said:


> Why do Israelis pray at the wall of Fortress Antonia?


Is that what your Christian education was about.  Delegitimizing Jewish connection to their holiest site at any cost?





















Keep trying.  As you did not learn from Jesus, you learned from Paul.  Change history.  Invent anything.  Destroy Judaism.


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## Sixties Fan

But the ancient stones themselves refute the nonsense of these pathetic “progressives” who
try to impress foreigners with their “freedom from old fashioned prejudice.”* These stones are not silent. They do not cry out. They whisper. They speak softly of the house that once stood here, of kings who knelt here once in prayer, of prophets and seers who here declaimed their message, of heroes who fell here, dying; and of how the great flame, at once destructive and illuminating, was here kindled….The testimony of these stones, sending out their light across the generations.










						‘These Stones Are Not Silent’
					

On May 6, 2022, Israel’s Independence Day, the Temple Mount was opened to Jews for the first time in 11 days. Jewish visitors, calmly and proudly walking into the sacred




					www.commentary.org
				



*


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

During the rally, the publisher of the Arab American News — Osama Siblani, clad jarringly in a fashionable Boss shirt — was not subtle at all in blessing the bloody, horrific axe murders, knifings, and shootings in Israel that have killed nearly 20 in the last few months — including fellow Arabs, although I count all the victims of terrorism as innocent, be they Jews or Arabs, Ukrainians or Druze.

“Do you see what is happening in Palestine?” he said. “They are striking them with their knives and with their bare hands, and they are victorious.”

Lovely. Some victory.

What kind of victory is it when a Palestinian in B’nai Brak aims at a two-year-old, but the dad turns the attempted infanticide into a mere homicide by throwing his body between the murderer and his toddler?

What kind of victory is it when that same shooter kills a Christian-Arab police officer with a Jewish girlfriend, who was probably doing more to cross lines and build bridges in the Middle East than the entire US Congress?

And what kind of victory is it when two Palestinians, using the same Jewish driver they have used before to get to work, pull out axes in Elad and start smashing his skull and others’ — murdering the driver and two other dads, while leaving others with shattered skulls housing wounds that will torment them for the rest of their lives?

We should all thank the ever-reliable Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) for translating this sickening violence-soliciting-video. We should also thank Representative Tlaib for her silence.

At least it’s honest.

I genuinely would have applauded Representative Tlaib had she arrived on Capitol Hill, proud of her Palestinian identity, but determined to be a true Progressive, and progress beyond the violence that courses through the heart of the Palestinian national movement.

She could have served her people far more effectively by trying to create a synthesis, using the liberal nationalism central to Americanism — and Zionism — to temper the fire-breathing ethnic Islamic nationalism central to Palestinianism. She could have been a voice for the democratization of her people. She could have tried detoxing their formal national movement, helping Palestinian leaders and activists withdraw from their addiction to terrorism and dictatorship. She could have showed that you are far more effective in nation-building if you work with outsiders and respect insiders, rather than targeting those who dare disagree with you while repressing your own people.

Instead, she is playing to Palestinian nationalists’ worst, least-constructive, most-maximalist instincts — while turning many Progressives into enablers, applauding what is essentially a genocidal plan against the nine million Jews and non-Jews living in Israel today.

So, at least Tlaib’s silence in the face of verbal violence is clear. It doesn’t confuse naïve Jews with the occasional virtue signal claiming that she believes violence is bad. Because apparently she doesn’t.

Her silence in Dearborn should echo loudly in Washington, where she just introduced her Nakba Day resolution. It’s worth reading from start to finish, because it is so one-sided, so distorted, that, like Tlaib’s silence, this package of lies rationalizes violence even if it doesn’t explicitly call for it.

You read this downright juvenile, overly-simplified version of history — I call it twistory — and all the fingerpointing makes it clear: the Palestinians are perfectly innocent victims, oppressed and dispossessed by the perfectly-awful Zionists. Such logic doesn’t encourage a two-state solution — it validates a Zero-State solution, meaning a no-Jewish-state solution, echoing that bellicose rallier, Osama Siblani, who treats the Jews as interlopers who must be removed from the Middle East.

The first lines of Tlaib’s Nakba resolution begin dishonestly — and it deteriorates from there. The first “Whereas” mentions the UN 1947 Partition plan, but adds that the proposed division “into two states” went “against the wishes of Palestine’s majority indigenous inhabitants.” Nevertheless, and without acknowledging the costs of such intransigence, the next “whereas” tries freezing Israeli history in a 1947 plan that the Jews reluctantly accepted– hoping for peace — and the entire Arab world rejected — gunning for war.

History is not a video game. You can’t press a reset button and start again. Tlaib’s Nakba Nihilism is trying to undo 75 years of history and ultimately eliminate the only democratic state in the Middle East — the Jewish democratic state of Israel.

(full article online)









						Rep. Rashida Tlaib’s Silence Openly Approves Violence Against Jews
					

US Congresswoman Rashia Tlaib of Michigan. Photo: Reuters / Rebecca Cook. In an America wracked by violence, apparently it is …




					www.algemeiner.com


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## Sixties Fan

*Green omits important historical context for understanding the origins of Zionism.*

Given that Green indicates at the outset of the video that his analysis of the conflict between Palestinians and Israelis “follow the lead of historians like James Gelvin,” it is perhaps not surprising that Green’s analysis, like Gelvin’s, includes omissions of historical context and inaccuracies.  Green contends that Theodor Herzl, living in a “hyper-nationalistic” milieu, “became convinced that the Jewish people needed to leave Europe and settle their own state.”  This explanation for Herzl’s motivation fails to account for the expectation of Jewish return to the land of Israel found in biblical and rabbinic texts as well as Jewish liturgical practices, all of which long predate the rise of modern nationalism.  Moreover, Green omits the fact that factors beyond nationalism contributed to Herzl’s belief in the need for Jews to have a state of their own.  For example, the scholar Anita Shapira, Professor Emerita of Jewish History at Tel Aviv University, has noted how resentment toward Jews, or antisemitism, not simply nationalist ideas, contributed to Herzl’s belief in the necessity of a state for Jews.[4]

*Green mischaracterizes Jewish acquisition of land in British Mandate Palestine.*

Green claims that between 1920 and 1939, “the growing Jewish population focused on purchasing land from absentee non-Palestinian Arab landowners and then evicting Palestinian farmers who were living and working there,” leaving viewers with the impression that Jews purchasing land evinced little concern for others living there.  However, this picture Green paints could not be further from the truth.  As the scholar Mitchell Bard points out,



> “Jews actually went out of their way to avoid purchasing land in areas where Arabs might be displaced.  They sought land that was largely uncultivated, swampy, cheap, and—most important—without tenants.  In 1920, Labor Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion expressed his concern about the Arab _fellahin_, whom he viewed as ‘the most important asset of the native population.’  Ben-Gurion said[,] ‘under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to _fellahs_ or worked by them.’  He advocated helping liberate them from their oppressors.  ‘Only if a _fellah_ leaves his place of settlement,’ Ben-Gurion added, ‘should we offer to buy his land, at an appropriate price.’”[5]


*Green engages in victim-blaming in terms of Arab hostility to Jewish land purchases.*

Commenting on Jews purchasing land in British Mandate Palestine, Green claims, “By controlling both the land and the labor, they hoped to establish a more secure community within Palestine, but of course, these practices heightened tensions between Jewish people and Arab Palestinians during the 1920s and the 1930s.”  By suggesting that Jewish attempts “to establish a more secure community within Palestine” would “of course” lead to “heightened tensions,” Green effectively blames Jews for the tensions between the two communities and suggests that such tensions were an inevitable outcome of Jewish activities.  However, such tensions were not inevitable nor can they be blamed primarily on Jews.  Indeed, as Bard notes,



> “The Peel Commission’s report [to investigate an outbreak of Arab attacks against Jews instigated by local Palestinian leaders] found that Arab complaints about Jewish land acquisition were baseless […] The report concluded that the presence of Jews in Palestine, along with the work of the British administration, had resulted in higher wages, an improved standard of living, and ample employment opportunities.”[6]


The “heightened tensions” to which Green refers, thus, do not appear to have been caused by Jews themselves, who suffered the brunt of violent attacks from Arabs; rather, the Peel Commission’s report observed many positive consequences that Jews brought to the region by virtue of their presence and activities.

*Green fails to mention the Holocaust.*

Green asserts, “The Zionists were angry at Britain for limiting Jewish immigration at a time when Jews particularly needed to leave Europe, and the Arab Palestinians were unhappy about the prospect of waiting ten years for a state.”  Left out of Green’s account here and throughout the video is any mention of antisemitism or the Holocaust.  Green leaves viewers to wonder about why Jews sought to escape Europe.  The scholar Barry Rubin helpfully fills this lacuna, asserting, “[A]fter the Nazis took power in Germany, when far more Jews were seeking a safe haven, British policy limited immigration, most notably in the 1939 White Paper with which Britain sought to gain political favor in the Arab world.  This last restriction was indirectly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Jews trapped in Nazi-ruled Europe.”[7]

*Green omits Palestinian collaboration with Hitler during World War II.*

Green does briefly mention World War II, but only to misleadingly underscore how this time period “was actually quite a peaceful time in Palestine.”  This statement by Green completely elides the warm relationship and collaboration between Palestinian leader Hajj Amin al-Husaini and Adolf Hitler.  In a meeting with Hitler,



> “[Al-Husaini] thanked the German dictator for long supporting the Palestinian Arab cause.  The Arabs, he asserted, were Germany’s natural friends, believed it would win the war, and were ready to help.  Al-Husaini explained his plan to Hitler.  He would recruit an Arab Legion to fight for the Axis; Arab fighters would sabotage Allied facilities while Arab and Muslim leaders would foment revolts to tie up Allied troops and add territory and resources for the Axis […] When the day of Germany victory came, [Hitler told al-Husaini] Germany would announce the Arabs’ liberation.  The grand mufti would become leader of most Arabs.  All Jews in the Middle East would be killed.  When al-Husaini asked for a written agreement, Hitler replied that he had just given him his personal promise and that should be sufficient.”[8]



In other words, if the Nazis were to have been victorious against the Allies, the level of Nazi-supported Arab genocidal violence against Jews might have been quite significant.  To sanitize this period of time in Palestine by claiming it was “peaceful” is to overlook the collaborative efforts between Palestinian and Nazi leadership during this period.

(full article online)









						Author John Green Presents Fiction About Israel as Fact
					

Notwithstanding Green’s stated aim to convey facts to his viewers, a number of Green’s claims more closely resemble a genre of writing at which




					www.camera.org


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## Sixties Fan

Before 'Palestine': Exploring the Unbroken Jewish Connection to Temple Mount | Honest Reporting
					

The suggestion that only "extremists" hold the site sacred is completely ahistorical. Jews have visited and prayed on the Mount for centuries.




					honestreporting.com


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## Sixties Fan

As has often been the case in the past, the BBC’s explanation of the Jerusalem Day national holiday is lacking. Not only does it fail to clarify that the date is marked to celebrate the reunification of the city, it completely erases the 19-year illegal Jordanian occupation of parts of Jerusalem from the story.

“The march celebrates Israel’s capture of East Jerusalem in the 1967 war.

Israel regards the whole of Jerusalem as its capital, something rejected by most countries and the Palestinians.”

As ever, the BBC’s politicised account fails to note the inclusion of Jerusalem in the territory assigned by the League of Nations to the creation of a Jewish homeland. The belligerent British-backed Jordanian invasion and subsequent ethnic cleansing of Jews from districts including the Old City in 1948, together with the destruction of synagogues and cemeteries, is completely ignored, as is the fact that the 1949 Armistice Agreement between Israel and Jordan specifically stated that the ceasefire lines were not borders. Israel’s warning to Jordan not to participate in the Six Day War is also eliminated from the BBC’s ‘minimalist’ account of events.

Readers are told that:

“Earlier, there were violent confrontations between Palestinians and Israeli police at a flashpoint holy site in the Old City. Shortly after, hundreds of Jewish visitors, including a far-right MP, ascended the hilltop site, where some danced, waved Israeli flags and bowed down to pray, before being stopped by police. Palestinians view such actions as incendiary and militant groups had warned they would not tolerate it.”

The BBC refrains from clarifying that those “violent confrontations” occurred after masked rioters barricaded themselves inside al Aqsa mosque and threw rocks at police officers ahead of the opening of the site to visits by non-Muslims.

Neither does the BBC’s report explain to readers that the threats and incitement from assorted Palestinian terrorist groups were issued long before the “Jewish visitors” arrived at the site. It does however provide uncritical amplification for Palestinian Authority talking points and partisan terminology:

“Israel is irresponsibly and recklessly playing with fire by allowing settlers to desecrate the holy sites” in East Jerusalem, the president’s spokesman Nabil Abu Rudeineh said, according to the official Palestinian news agency Wafa. Palestinian officials often describe Israelis who visit the holy site revered by Muslims and Jews as settlers and their presence there as a desecration.”

The BBC did not bother to inquire whether the PA also considers actions such as rock and petrol bomb throwing, urination, displaying Hamas flags or placing agricultural machinery inside the al Aqsa mosque to be ‘desecration’ of a holy site. It did however find fit to promote the opinion of an inadequately identified “activist”.

“One Palestinian Jerusalemite activist, Usama Barham, told the BBC that “what happened this morning inside our holy mosque [at the site] was much more dangerous than the Flag March”.”

(full article online)









						BBC’s Jerusalem Day report erases Jordanian occupation yet again
					

Late on May 28th the BBC News website published a report by Raffi Berg on its ‘Middle East’ page under the headline ‘Jerusalem tensions high ahead of Isr




					camera-uk.org


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

The Commission of Inquiry created in 2021 by the UN Human Rights Council issued its first report on Tuesday. The three commissioners appointed to conduct the inquiry were on record accusing Israel of apartheid, and urging boycotts and criminal prosecution – in advance of investigating anything. At least two reports annually may be expected to pound a steady drumbeat of modern anti-Semitism, namely, delegitimizing Israel.


The UN handed the Commission a search warrant unrestricted to any period of time, to seek “all underlying root causes” of the conflict and hunt for “systematic discrimination and repression.” So we submitted the names of 600,000 Jewish refugees and victims of Arab persecution in Middle East and North African nations in the past 75 years.


We submitted the names of 4,220 civilians – Israelis and foreign visitors – killed by unremitting Arab violence from the beginning of modern Zionism until today. We submitted the names of 24,092 Israeli military and security forces who have fallen in defense of their country against the Arab goal to eradicate the modern Jewish state.


We gave the Commission documentation that the Palestinian Authority pays bounties for killing Jews – an amount that increases the more deadly the attack. We presented irrefutable evidence that the Palestinian Authority and Hamas in Gaza maintain a system of racist indoctrination demonizing Jews and inciting violence against Jews – in schools, official television programming, summer camps, public displays and public honors.


Our submissions contained evidence of the ceaseless, unrelenting, violent attacks on Jews prior to Israel’s independence and until today. War after war, terror attack after terror attack, suicide bombing, kidnapping, torture, arson; with rockets, mortars, grenades, pipe bombs, drones, firebombs, stones, bullets, vehicles, and knives, decade after decade; with one goal: the ethnic cleansing of Jews from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea – the ultimate violation of human rights. Yet the report finds no Palestinian terrorism.


This UN exercise in historical revisionism seeks to invent a narrative of powerless Arab victims and criminal Jewish perpetrators, invert who violated the rights of whom, and challenge the moral imperative of the modern Jewish state. It is far more than an outrage. Unless stopped, it has and will continue to breathe oxygen into a highly flammable cauldron of modern anti-Semitism.

(full article online)









						The UN Commission of Inquiry: An Exercise in Historical Revisionism
					

Attempts at the ethnic cleansing of Jews from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea is the ultimate violation of human rights. - The UN Commission of Inquiry: An Exercise in Historical Revisionism




					jcpa.org


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## Sixties Fan

The US State Department's 2021 Report on International Religious Freedom was recently released. It has quite a large section on Israel, much of it about religious coercion by Orthodox in Israel towards other denominations. 

But one theme on that and the West Bank/Gaza page was seemingly against religious freedom. 

When it discusses Jewish prayer on the Temple Mount, the tone of the report is decidedly negative, which is quite strange for a report that is supposed to support freedom and rights for religion:




> According to local media, some Jewish groups performed religious acts such as prayers and prostration on the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount despite the ban on non-Islamic prayer.  The Israeli government reiterated that overt non-Islamic prayer was not allowed on the grounds of the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount.  NGOs, media, and Jewish Temple Mount advocacy groups continued to report that in practice, police generally allowed discreet non-Muslim prayer on the site.  The news website Al-Monitor reported in October that although the country’s two chief rabbis repeatedly said Jews were not to set foot in the Temple Mount out of concern they could inadvertently step into an area which, in Jewish law, it was forbidden to enter unless one was ritually pure.  In recent years, some Jews had entered the mosque and tried to offer prayers.


No Jews entered the mosque. The State Department is adopting the absurd recent Palestinian claim that the entire Temple Mount is a mosque. (If it was, then no Muslim would be allowed to wear shoes on the entire complex!)  


> In August, the New York Times reported that Rabbi Yehuda Glick, whom the newspaper described as a “right-wing former lawmaker,” led “efforts to change the status quo for years” and said that Glick livestreamed his prayers from the site.  The report said that although the government officially allowed non-Muslims to visit the site each morning on the condition that they did not pray there, “In reality, dozens of Jews now openly pray every day [at the site]… and their Israeli police escorts no longer attempt stop them.”  The New York Times reported that Glick and activists ultimately sought to build a third Jewish Temple on the site of the Dome of the Rock, an idea that Azzam Khatib, the deputy chairman of the Waqf council, said “will lead to a civil war.”


The same article said that Glick only wanted to build the Third Temple _in dialogue with Muslims_, not above their objections, and _it would be open to all religions_.  Both of those facts  should be relevant but the report seems to want to paint the Jews as extremists who want to forcibly take over the Mount. 


> According to the Religion News Service, one group known as the Temple Institute hoped to build a third temple where one of the al-Aqsa complex’s three mosques now stands and to reinstate ritual animal sacrifices.  The group’s website reported that it was working with an architect on a design.  In September, al-Monitor reported, “In the past, doing so [praying out loud or making movements of genuflection], could lead to the person being detained and ejected from the site, as Jews are not allowed to pray there.  But more recently, a warning is reportedly more common.  Last July Israel’s Channel 12 filmed Jews praying silently at the site while police officers watched.”  Police continued to screen non-Muslims for religious articles.  Police allowed Jewish male visitors who were visibly wearing a kippah and tzitzit (fringes), and those who wished to enter the site barefoot (in accordance with interpretations of halacha, Jewish religious law) to enter with a police escort.
> 
> On October 5, the Jerusalem Magistrate Court ruled that “silent Jewish prayer” on the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount did not violate existing police rules on the site.  The ruling was in response to a case involving a 15-day administrative restraining order against a man whom police had removed from the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount on September 29 on grounds that he disturbed public order by engaging in Jewish prayer.  The judge ruled that silent prayer “does not in itself violate police instructions” that prohibit “external and overt” non-Muslim prayer on the site.  Al-Monitor said the Magistrate’s Court’s ruling was “unprecedented” and “seem[ed] to question the status quo that has prevailed over the site.”  The Jerusalem District Court overturned the lower court’s ruling on October 8, ruling that the INP had acted “within reason,” and “the fact that there was someone who observed [him] pray is evidence that his prayer was overt.”  Minister of Public Security Bar-Lev supported the appeal, saying “a change in the status quo will endanger public security and could cause a flare-up.”  The Waqf said the lower court’s ruling was “a flagrant violation” of the complex’s sanctity and a “clear provocation” for Muslims.



This report is framing the Jews who want true religious freedom as fanatics who are somehow limiting Muslim religious freedom. The supposed "status quo," which was by definition antisemitic in that it forbade Jews from prayer, is held up as an ideal.










						US State Department Religious Freedom Report seems to OPPOSE religious freedom for Jews on the Temple Mount
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## rylah

Sixties Fan said:


> The US State Department's 2021 Report on International Religious Freedom was recently released. It has quite a large section on Israel, much of it about religious coercion by Orthodox in Israel towards other denominations.
> 
> But one theme on that and the West Bank/Gaza page was seemingly against religious freedom.
> 
> When it discusses Jewish prayer on the Temple Mount, the tone of the report is decidedly negative, which is quite strange for a report that is supposed to support freedom and rights for religion:
> 
> 
> 
> No Jews entered the mosque. The State Department is adopting the absurd recent Palestinian claim that the entire Temple Mount is a mosque. (If it was, then no Muslim would be allowed to wear shoes on the entire complex!)
> 
> The same article said that Glick only wanted to build the Third Temple _in dialogue with Muslims_, not above their objections, and _it would be open to all religions_.  Both of those facts  should be relevant but the report seems to want to paint the Jews as extremists who want to forcibly take over the Mount.
> 
> 
> This report is framing the Jews who want true religious freedom as fanatics who are somehow limiting Muslim religious freedom. The supposed "status quo," which was by definition antisemitic in that it forbade Jews from prayer, is held up as an ideal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US State Department Religious Freedom Report seems to OPPOSE religious freedom for Jews on the Temple Mount
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com



Shouldn't this rather motivate us to renovate the place?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas gave a speech via telephone to the "Property Documents and the Historical Status of the Blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque" conference at Al-Bireh.

He started off by directly attacking the fundamentals of Judaism,  denying Jewish history and Judaism's connection to Jerusalem, accusing Jews of having a "false narrative" that has "no basis, neither in history, nor in reality, nor in international law."

"All the historical evidence and documents confirm the identity of Al-Quds and Al-Aqsa Mosque and all the Islamic and Christian holy sites in our holy capital," he said, after denying any Jewish connection to the city. 

But don't worry - he assured everyone that he isn't antisemitic.

He went on to say, "Our struggle with the occupation is essentially a political struggle and not a struggle against a particular religion."

Good to know that he is really a tolerant person.

(full article online)









						Abbas says he has nothing against the Jewish religion - but the Jewish connection to Jerusalem is a complete lie
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

[ But not one Arab, not one Muslim,  can tell us exactly how, under all of the rubble the Arabs threw out, there isn't one vestige of Jewish History in Jerusalem. ]


----------



## rylah

*Modern Biblical Events - The Heroes Who Liberated Jerusalem*

**


----------



## Sixties Fan

For openers, Chikli suggested there was a fundamental error in the date that’s routinely in use by the members of the caucus to refer to the Jewish occupation of Jerusalem, “because it hasn’t been 55 years” of Jewish “occupation,” rather, it’s been “3055 years.” He cited the Biblical source (II Samuel 5:4-7):

“David was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned forty years. In Hebron (‘the capital of Breaking the Silence,’ Chikli interjected) he reigned over Judah for seven years and six months, and in Jerusalem he reigned over all Israel and Judah for thirty-three years. … David captured the stronghold of Zion; it is now the City of David.”

“And that’s Zion which we know from the chronicles of Zionism,” MK Chikli continued. “David conquers, occupies, 3055 years ago, conquers Jerusalem and the Jebusites.”

“We can hold a debate on this,” he noted, and was interrupted by Chairwoman Touma-Sliman who said, “So, that’s when the occupation started?”

“That’s when we conquered the Zion citadel,” Chikli responded, adding, “It’s a shame that representatives of the Jebusite community didn’t make the effort to come and honor this event.”

It was a pretty good joke, but the truly precious part was the Joint Arab List MK and Chairwoman’s grabbing of the right-wing MK’s admission that Jews have been occupying Jerusalem since the time of King David. She should have added, of course, that her own ancestors at the time were circling and worshiping a giant, black meteor in the middle of the Arabian desert – which they continue to do to this day.

A few historical notes, lest our readers walk away thinking that the Temple Mount, too, was conquered in war by King David, the same book of II Samuel (24:18-24) reports the purchase of what later was to become the compound of the First Temple (and the second):

“[The prophet] Gad came to David the same day and said to him, ‘Go and set up an altar to God on the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.’ David went up, following Gad’s instructions, as God had commanded. Araunah looked out and saw the king and his courtiers approaching him. So Araunah went out and bowed low to the king, with his face to the ground.

“And Araunah asked, ‘Why has my lord the king come to his servant?’ David replied, ‘To buy the threshing floor from you, that I may build an altar to God and that the plague against the people may be checked.’ And Araunah said to David, ‘Let my lord the king take it and offer up whatever he sees fit. Here are oxen for a burnt offering, and the threshing boards and the gear of the oxen for wood. All this, O king, Araunah gives to Your Majesty. And may the Lord your God,’ Araunah added, ‘respond to you with favor!’

“But the king replied to Araunah, ‘No, I will buy them from you at a price. I cannot sacrifice to the Lord my God burnt offerings that have cost me nothing.’ And David bought the threshing floor and the oxen for fifty shekels of silver.”

The exchange between David and the Jebusite land owner is reminiscent of the conversation between Abraham and Efron the Canaanite over the purchase of the Cave of the Patriarch. Both holy places were bought by our ancestors for cool cash.

Do you think Jebusite voters support the Joint Arab List? Do they even show up at the polls on election day?

(full article online)










						MK Chikli Defeats the Knesset Jebusites, Celebrates 3,055 Years of ‘Occupation’
					

It hasn't been "55 years" of Jewish "occupation," rather, it's been “3055 years.”




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Zubdat-al Tawarikh is a 16th century Islamic history book that is filled with color, miniature illustrations. It is in the Museum of Turkish and Islamic Arts in Istanbul.

Here is one of its illustrations, depicting Jonah, Ezra and Jeremiah.





The description of this artwork shows that Muslims not only were well aware of the Jewish ties to Jerusalem, but they created legends about how strong they are:




> Still another miniature depicts the stories of three different prophets (fig. 9). In the upper section is found the story of Jonah and the fish. Jonah, the text tells tried to avoid his mission by sailing away but was caught by a violent storm. He was then swallowed by a fish and after three days left on shore. In the miniature Prophet Jonah is shown trying to hide nis nakedness in the midst of bushes. Below him is a brook full of brightly colored fish. On the upper left hand corner, another prophet is represented. Sitting among trees and animals according, to the text, *Prophet Jeremiah, grieving over the destruction of Jerusalem by Babylonians,* hid in a wild forest. A similar story is narrated in the text for Prophet Uzeyr [_Ezra_], depicted in the lower section of the miniatures, *who also grieved over the destruction of the Holy City but his grief was so deep that God took his soul and gave him life, years after Jerusalem was reconstructed*. The building on the lower right hand corner undoubtedly symbolises the rebuilt city of Jerusalem, yet it is the accurate rendering of a typical sixteenth century Ottoman building with a dome and an arched portico. The ruins of the once destroyed city, on the other hand, are indicated by broken arches and columns on the left.


Before the 20th century, no Muslim doubted that Jerusalem has a Jewish history. The idea that Jerusalem has nothing to do with Judaism - which was one of the themes of a speech by Mahmoud Abbas yesterday - is just one of many Palestinian lies that is widely believed by dint of repetition. 

See also here for another early Muslim work about the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.










						16th century Islamic history book describes the strong Jewish attachment to Jerusalem
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

As Palestinian Media Watch exposed, in the lead up to the May 29 Israeli celebrations to mark 55 years since the 1967 reunification of Jerusalem and its liberation from Jordanian occupation (1948-1967), the PA tried desperately to incite wide scale violence. Having failed in this goal, the PA then did its utmost to create an alternative narrative. 

Part of the alternative narrative rested solidly on openly antisemitic hate speech referring to the 70,000+ Israelis who participated in the march as “inferior… settlers”, “monkeys” and “fools”: 



> “Thousands of Israelis, and *especially the inferior among them – the settlers *– participated in the Israeli [Jerusalem Day] flag march. But the general impression received by everyone is that this march was foolish and unsuccessful on all levels…
> No one reacted to the lies to which the settlers clinged, and Jerusalem remained wrapped in holy garb that was not harmed *despite the wild behavior of the monkeys and their leaping about…*
> You are not an orphan, Palestine, as the people… that initiated the stone rebellion… is *not like those fools who set out on the flag march*, and who do not know what fate awaits them.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, June 1, 2022]


According to the PA narrative, “settler herds went wild to execute the blood dance march” and “polluted the air” of Jerusalem before leaving the city “like panicked mice fleeing from the guardians of the city”:



> “Last Sunday [May 29, 2022] was one of the lauded days of Jerusalem, a day of freedom, peace, and implementing national sovereignty. This is despite the fact that the entire Israeli colonialist state and its leadership – with its political, military, and security echelon and its *settler herds – went wild to execute the blood dance march* (i.e., Jerusalem Day flag march) which is covered with the flag of the false narrative and the illegal presence of the Israeli ethnic cleansing state…”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, May 31, 2022]





> “*While thousands of settlers ‘polluted’ the air of the holy city* [of Jerusalem] with flags of the occupation (refers to Jerusalem Day flag march -Ed.), a small video drone decorated the city’s skies with a Palestinian flag, until it was brought down by the occupation police…”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, May 31, 2022]





> “The Zionists waved flags of their defeat by force of the gunpowder and army, but they l*eft the occupied city like panicked mice fleeing from the guardians of the city* and its Holy Basin…”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, May 31, 2022]


Shamefully, the PA’s use of antisemitic terminology to describe Jews is nothing new. PMW has documented scores of incidents in which the PA has used antisemitic terminology and tropes, including repeated references to Jews as “pigs and monkeys”.

The second part of the narrative followed the consistent PA messaging that not only Jerusalem, but rather all of Israel, is “occupied”.

Speaking about Jerusalem, PA Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh dubbed the event as a “settlers march” and added: 



> “Jerusalem has been the State of Palestine’s capital throughout the years, and it will remain [so] forever. Its face, heart, and tongue are Arab, and the attempts to change its features and impose an imaginary sovereignty on it will not last against the facts of religion, history, and sanctity, as it contains the first direction of Muslim prayer, the site where Prophet [Muhammad] traveled, the site of his Ascent to Heaven, and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.’”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, May 30, 2022]



(full article online)









						Having failed to instigate violence to prevent Israeli celebrations, PA reverts to open Antisemitism and rewriting history | PMW Analysis
					

Having failed to instigate violence to prevent Israeli celebrations, PA reverts to open Antisemitism and rewriting history




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## RoccoR

RE: The Right to Destroy Jewish History
SUBTOPIC: Existence
⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,

*(PREFACE) * I have contributed to this Discussion Thread of late because I see no Associative Right on which to place an objection.  It is to me, the same as trying to discuss the Issues and Events Cosmos with the Flat Earth People.



Sixties Fan said:


> 60's Fan Insert:  Palestinians: Israel has no right to exist. Israelis:



*(COMMENT)*
.
I place this political formula here → more to help me stay on track → rather than as an active exhibit.
NO state has the "Right to Exist."

There is no "Right to Exist" for the establishment of the State of (Israel).
There is no "Right to Exist" for the establishment of the State of (Palestine).

*Does Israel right to exist?*





✦   Rights do not require permission.  
✦  Permission is NOT an inherent part of rights themselves.
✦  You can NOT define something that is allowed.  

A *negative right *is a normative standard for the appropriate social treatment of people that does not require anyone to do anything for anyone else, it only requires that they do not interfere.
A *positive right* is a normative standard for the appropriate social treatment of people that mandates others provide something to help achieve the standard.
This IMSHIN charter on tweeter is posting misinformation; with the intent to deceive.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Was Capital of Palestine?????  No History books have ever referred to Jerusalem as the Capital of a place called Palestine, which makes you the biggest liars on the Planet.  Nothing new. ]


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?



The Arabs, both Christian and Muslim, protected the sites of the patriarchs for 1400 years.





__





						Google Image Result for https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/religionwiki/images/2/29/Jerusalem_Muslim_Quarter_map.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100115211930
					





					images.app.goo.gl


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Arabs, both Christian and Muslim, protected the sites of the patriarchs for 1400 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google Image Result for https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/religionwiki/images/2/29/Jerusalem_Muslim_Quarter_map.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100115211930
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> images.app.goo.gl


Did Muslims and Christians protect the sites or did they decide that they owned those sites, especially Muslims,  as the Jews were a minority and under Islamic "protection".

Once Jews became sovereign of part of their ancient homeland that protection seems to have been revoked not only for the humans but also for all the sites as proven by endless destructions of he Tombs of Rachel and of Joseph.

How many times has the Cave of the Patriarchs been attacked?

Why is the Cave of Patriarchs called a mosque now when it was not before 1948?

Why is the Temple Mount called a mosque now, when it was not before 1948?


Why this?









						The Danger to Al-Aksa from Muslim Building Activity in Solomon's Stables
					

While no one accuses the Muslims of seeking to bring down Al-Aksa, the danger stemmed directly from their building activity at Solomon’s Stables




					jcpa.org
				





There is only respect and protection for Jewish sites if they are TOTALLY under Islamic control.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Did Muslims and Christians protect the sites or did they decide that they owned those sites, especially Muslims,  as the Jews were a minority and under Islamic "protection".
> 
> Once Jews became sovereign of part of their ancient homeland that protection seems to have been revoked not only for the humans but also for all the sites as proven by endless destructions of he Tombs of Rachel and of Joseph.
> 
> How many times has the Cave of the Patriarchs been attacked?
> 
> Why is the Cave of Patriarchs called a mosque now when it was not before 1948?
> 
> Why is the Temple Mount called a mosque now, when it was not before 1948?
> 
> 
> Why this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Danger to Al-Aksa from Muslim Building Activity in Solomon's Stables
> 
> 
> While no one accuses the Muslims of seeking to bring down Al-Aksa, the danger stemmed directly from their building activity at Solomon’s Stables
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jcpa.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is only respect and protection for Jewish sites if they are TOTALLY under Islamic control.



Muslims revere the patriarchs too. Solomon's stables?

There is no temple mount. It was the city dump when Omar arrived.

It's been called Al Aksa mosque and Haram Al Shariff for 1400 years.


----------



## Sixties Fan

What the Nazis did during WWII, the Arabs did between 1948 and 1967 in Judea and Samaria:










An intact Jewish tombstones recovered in Gora Kalwaria in Poland. (From the Depths)

Digging his hand into the dirt, Daniels also showed fragments and other pieces of tombstones still stuck in the ground that were “literally used to pave the road.”

“This is one of the craziest cases I’ve heard of, it really is quite shocking,” he said. “Just to see so many, to see that this is just a small area that we’ve looked at - this is what we’ve found in just a few minutes.”









						Jewish tombstones used by Nazis to build roads found in Poland
					

Daniels said that they would be taken, flipped around face-down so people didn’t know what they were and placed to pave the streets.




					www.jpost.com
				




----------
The gravestones were apparently taken from the Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives, and repurposed for construction, during the 1960s, when Jordan controlled east Jerusalem. postulates the archaeologist handling the salvage dig, Ya'acov Billig for the Israel Antiquities Authority. Jordan wanted to expand the road and build a gas station on the mountain, he explains – though the project ultimately fell through because of the Six-Day War.









						Smashed century-old Jewish gravestones found in East Jerusalem
					

Jordan had repurposed the gravestones when aiming to build a gas station on the Mount of Olives, archaeologist surmises.




					www.haaretz.com
				



---------

The investigation was launched following a complaint from City Councilman Arieh King. The suspect denies the charges.

One Segev follower, Shai Lourie, tweeted that if such a thing had happened in Europe it would have opened all the news editions, but on Mount Olives it barely generates a yawn.

During the Jordanian rule (1948-1967), the Mount Olives Jewish cemetery suffered systematic damage to gravestones and tombs. As early as the end of 1949, Israeli observers stationed on Mount Zion reported that Arab residents began uprooting tombstones.

In 1954, the Israeli government filed a formal complaint with the UN General Assembly regarding the further destruction of graves and plowing in the area. In the late 1950s, the Jordanian army used tombstones to build military camps.

According to historian Mordechai Sofer, dozens of tombstones were completely transferred to the “tomb camp,” a Jordanian Legion military camp established in nearby al-Eizariya, where they were used as floors in tents and toilets.

The Hotel Inter-Continental Jerusalem was built on top of Mount Olives, and the access road to it was paved on top of graves, while the tombstones were shredded to gravel for use as raw material. When the Jordanians extended the road to Jericho, they demolished six rows of graves and threw the bones with the soil towards the lower, Sephardic section of the cemetery. Even after sorting out some of the bones, a large pile of earth remained.

Ancient tombstones that stood around the tomb of Zechariah were removed from the area in order to expand the access road to the village of Silwan. In his book “Against the Closed Wall,” Meron Benvenisti writes that tombstones were also transferred to the courtyard of the Citadel of David, where they were smashed and their fragments were used as markers for a parade ground.



			https://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye-on-palestine/palestinian-authority/pa-arab-used-jewish-gravestones-to-build-public-staircase/2019/12/17/


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Muslims revere the patriarchs too. Solomon's stables?
> 
> There is no temple mount. It was the city dump when Omar arrived.
> 
> It's been called Al Aksa mosque and Haram Al Shariff for 1400 years.


I will mark an appointment for you with your Psychiatrist.  You will soon hear from them.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> I will mark an appointment for you with your Psychiatrist.  You will soon hear from them.



Solomon's stables in Megiddo we're built by King Jeroboam, not Solomon. The stable in Jerusalem was a storehouse briefly used by the Crusaders as a stable. There just weren't many horses in Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Can Surada rewrite the history of all of these sites being destroyed by Arabs? At least, when it comes to destroying in Saudi Arabia, it looks like they are making more space for tourists, pilgrims and other necessary things (wink)  ]









						Q&A: Why Sunni Extremists Are Destroying Ancient Religious Sites in Mosul
					

A rich and diverse history is being lost as Islamic extremists destroy religious sites in Mosul and run off the city's remaining Christians.




					www.nationalgeographic.com
				





[Not even early Islamic history gets any respect ]

Destroyed sites[edit]​Below is a complete list of destroyed sites:

Mosques[edit]​
The Mosque of al-Manaratain.[14]
Mosque and tomb of Sayyid Imam al-Uraidhi ibn Ja'far al-Sadiq, destroyed by dynamite on August 13, 2002.[_citation needed_]
The Mosque of Abu Rasheed.[22]
Salman al-Farsi Mosque, in Medina.[22]
Raj'at ash-Shams Mosque, in Medina.[22]
Mosque and tomb of Hamza at Mount Uhud.
Cemeteries and tombs[edit]​
The tombs at Jannat al-Baqi in Medina, leveled.
Jannat al-Mu'alla, the ancient cemetery at Mecca.[22]
Grave of Hamida al-Barbariyya, the mother of Imam Musa al-Kadhim.
Tombs of Hamza and other casualties of the Battle of Uhud were demolished at Mount Uhud.[22]
Tomb of Eve in Jeddah,[22] sealed with concrete in 1975.[_citation needed_]
Grave of Abdullah, the father of Muhammad.
Historical religious sites[edit]​
The house of Mawlid where Muhammad is believed to have been born in 570. Originally turned into a library, it now lies under a rundown building which was built 70 years ago as a compromise after Wahhabi clerics called for it to be demolished.[23]
The house of Khadija, Muhammad's first wife. Muslims believe he received some of the first revelations there. It was also where his children Zainab bint Muhammad, Ruqayyah bint Muhammad, Umm Kulthum bint Muhammad, Fatimah, Qasim and Abd-Allah ibn Muhammad were born. After it was rediscovered during the Haram extensions in 1989, it was covered over and it was made into a library.[_citation needed_]
A Hilton hotel stands on the site of the house of Islam's first caliph, Abu Bakr.[24]
House of Muhammed in Medina, where he lived after the migration from Mecca.[22]
Dar Al-Arqam, the first Islamic school where Muhammad taught.[23] It now lies under the extension of the Masjid Al-Haram of Mecca.[_citation needed_]
Qubbat' al-Thanaya, the burial site of Muhammed's incisor that was broken in the Battle of Uhud.[14]
Mashrubat Umm Ibrahim, built to mark the location of the house where Muhammad's son, Ibrahim, was born to Mariah.[_citation needed_]
Dome which served as a canopy over the Well of Zamzam.[22]
Bayt al-Ahzan of Sayyida Fatima, in Medina.[22]
House of Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq, in Medina.[22]
Mahhalla complex of Banu Hashim, in Mecca.[22]
House of Ali where Hasan and Husayn were born.[22]
House of Hamza.[25]
Historical military structures[edit]​
Ajyad Fortress, 19th-century Ottoman castle demolished and replaced with the Abraj Al Bait[26]









						Destruction of early Islamic heritage sites in Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				













						Saudi Arabia Bulldozes Over Its Heritage
					

Over 98% of the Kingdom's historical and religious sites have been destroyed since 1985, according to the U.K.-based Islamic Heritage Research Foundation




					time.com


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Can Surada rewrite the history of all of these sites being destroyed by Arabs? At least, when it comes to destroying in Saudi Arabia, it looks like they are making more space for tourists, pilgrims and other necessary things (wink)  ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Q&A: Why Sunni Extremists Are Destroying Ancient Religious Sites in Mosul
> 
> 
> A rich and diverse history is being lost as Islamic extremists destroy religious sites in Mosul and run off the city's remaining Christians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationalgeographic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Not even early Islamic history gets any respect ]
> 
> Destroyed sites[edit]​Below is a complete list of destroyed sites:
> 
> Mosques[edit]​
> The Mosque of al-Manaratain.[14]
> Mosque and tomb of Sayyid Imam al-Uraidhi ibn Ja'far al-Sadiq, destroyed by dynamite on August 13, 2002.[_citation needed_]
> The Mosque of Abu Rasheed.[22]
> Salman al-Farsi Mosque, in Medina.[22]
> Raj'at ash-Shams Mosque, in Medina.[22]
> Mosque and tomb of Hamza at Mount Uhud.
> Cemeteries and tombs[edit]​
> The tombs at Jannat al-Baqi in Medina, leveled.
> Jannat al-Mu'alla, the ancient cemetery at Mecca.[22]
> Grave of Hamida al-Barbariyya, the mother of Imam Musa al-Kadhim.
> Tombs of Hamza and other casualties of the Battle of Uhud were demolished at Mount Uhud.[22]
> Tomb of Eve in Jeddah,[22] sealed with concrete in 1975.[_citation needed_]
> Grave of Abdullah, the father of Muhammad.
> Historical religious sites[edit]​
> The house of Mawlid where Muhammad is believed to have been born in 570. Originally turned into a library, it now lies under a rundown building which was built 70 years ago as a compromise after Wahhabi clerics called for it to be demolished.[23]
> The house of Khadija, Muhammad's first wife. Muslims believe he received some of the first revelations there. It was also where his children Zainab bint Muhammad, Ruqayyah bint Muhammad, Umm Kulthum bint Muhammad, Fatimah, Qasim and Abd-Allah ibn Muhammad were born. After it was rediscovered during the Haram extensions in 1989, it was covered over and it was made into a library.[_citation needed_]
> A Hilton hotel stands on the site of the house of Islam's first caliph, Abu Bakr.[24]
> House of Muhammed in Medina, where he lived after the migration from Mecca.[22]
> Dar Al-Arqam, the first Islamic school where Muhammad taught.[23] It now lies under the extension of the Masjid Al-Haram of Mecca.[_citation needed_]
> Qubbat' al-Thanaya, the burial site of Muhammed's incisor that was broken in the Battle of Uhud.[14]
> Mashrubat Umm Ibrahim, built to mark the location of the house where Muhammad's son, Ibrahim, was born to Mariah.[_citation needed_]
> Dome which served as a canopy over the Well of Zamzam.[22]
> Bayt al-Ahzan of Sayyida Fatima, in Medina.[22]
> House of Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq, in Medina.[22]
> Mahhalla complex of Banu Hashim, in Mecca.[22]
> House of Ali where Hasan and Husayn were born.[22]
> House of Hamza.[25]
> Historical military structures[edit]​
> Ajyad Fortress, 19th-century Ottoman castle demolished and replaced with the Abraj Al Bait[26]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Destruction of early Islamic heritage sites in Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saudi Arabia Bulldozes Over Its Heritage
> 
> 
> Over 98% of the Kingdom's historical and religious sites have been destroyed since 1985, according to the U.K.-based Islamic Heritage Research Foundation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> time.com



Legend has it that Adam and Eve were reunited and forgiven 130 years after the Fall in Mecca but Eve was finally buried in Jidda . The tomb was very narrow and 90 feet long. Goes along with the legend that they were 90 feet tall. Haven't you ever seen the tomb?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Legend has it that Adam and Eve were reunited and forgiven 130 years after the Fall in Mecca but Eve was finally buried in Jidda . The tomb was very narrow and 90 feet long. Goes along with the legend that they were 90 feet tall. Haven't you ever seen the tomb?


We are talking of destroying Jewish history and you come up with a stupid post Muslim era rewriting of Adam and Eve.

It took you this long, from your last post, to call your friends to come up with that?

Everything about Islam is a rewriting of Jewish History.

Amazing how Arabs cannot find their own history before Islam, which is totally borrowed from Judaism,  if their lives depended on it.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> We are talking of destroying Jewish history and you come up with a stupid post Muslim era rewriting of Adam and Eve.
> 
> It took you this long, from your last post, to call your friends to come up with that?
> 
> Everything about Islam is a rewriting of Jewish History.
> 
> Amazing how Arabs cannot find their own history before Islam, which is totally borrowed from Judaism,  if their lives depended on it.



I have known the legend for 50 years.  Everything about Christianity is a rewrite of Jewish history.. 

Look how the Jews borrowed from Sumer, Egypt and the Ugarit tablets..


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> I have known the legend for 50 years.  Everything about Christianity is a rewrite of Jewish history..
> 
> Look how the Jews borrowed from Sumer, Egypt and the Ugarit tablets..



As in borrowing the Hiroshima story from Japan?

It's a strange definition of history you have.


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## surada

rylah said:


> As in borrowing the Hiroshima story from Japan?
> 
> It's a strange definition of history you have.


What on earth are you talking about?


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> What on earth are you talking about?



When using the term 'borrowing' to undermine
the validity of Hebrew texts, it is similar to claiming,
that apples didn't fall until Newton found the rule of gravity.

Meaning, that when you come from the position that they mustn't
be authentic or relevant, you actually point to the very facts that confirm
the validly of these texts in the context of similar records by various civilizations.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Muslims revere the patriarchs too. Solomon's stables?
> 
> There is no temple mount. It was the city dump when Omar arrived.
> 
> It's been called Al Aksa mosque and Haram Al Shariff for 1400 years.


No Temple Mount?

Muslims disagree with you


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Jewish Newspapers need to stop using the term West Bank ]

The term “West Bank” was used by Jordanian occupiers. The real name for these areas is Judea and Samaria. Anything else is flat out wrong. 

There is probably no better claim to a parcel of land than the Jewish claim to Judea and Samaria. But instead, the big lie was created, that somehow, the State of Israel is occupying so-called “Palestinian” land. This is a big lie for multiple reasons.

First of all, there is no Arab ethnic entity historically that were ever known as “Palestinians.” It all started as a propaganda push around the time of 1967-1973 in order to discredit Israel’s huge gains in it’s defensive war against three Arab countries that joined up to fight her in the Six Day War.

Secondly, the Arab leadership has made it crystal clear, endlessly, that they object to the entire existence of the State of Israel. They do not have a minor claim for the areas of Judea and Samaria. They dispute Israel’s very existence. The “West Bank” term is merely a fiction that was coined in order to fool the world into thinking that the Jewish connection is weak to the areas that are termed the “West Bank” of Jordan.

In truth, the part of the State of Israel that Israel has the deepest connection with are specifically the areas in Judea and Samaria. Beth-El, Shilo, Hebron, Shechem. These are all places that the forefathers of the Jewish people walked through, lived in, purchased, and died in – more than 3,500 years ago. Is there any stronger claim to a Land than that?

(vide video online)









						The Video That Debunks The Big Lie About Israel - Israel Unwired
					

The part of the State of Israel that Israel has the deepest connection with are specifically the areas in Judea and Samaria. Beth-El, Shilo, Hebron, Shechem. These are all places that the forefathers of the Jewish people walked through, lived in, purchased, and died in - more than 3,500 years ago.




					www.israelunwired.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

However, secret documents released by the Israeli archives and reviewed by Palestinian Media Watch, provide a unique opportunity to expose the authentic and official “status quo” instituted in 1967.   

On August 15, 1967, to mark the day which Jews commemorate as the day of the destruction of both temples (the 9th of the Hebrew month of Av) then IDF Chief Rabbi Major General Shlomo Goren arranged that Jews would go up to the Temple Mount to conduct prayers. 

A meeting of the Israeli Ministerial Committee for Safeguarding of the Holy Places convened, on August 13, 1967, to discuss Rabbi Goren’s plans . The committee specifically rejected a suggestion to ban Jewish prayer on the Temple Mount, preferring to instruct the head of the committee to meet with Rabbi Goren and inform him that he should desist arranging prayers. A similar instruction was given to Minister of Defense Dayan to convey to Rabbi Goren through the IDF Chief of Staff. Interestingly the written summary of the decision made in the meeting is dated August 16, 1967. The original protocol of the decisions of the meeting and its translation appear below. 

Reneging on pre-election promises of former Prime Minister Menachem Begin, to allow Jews to openly pray on the Temple Mount, no change was made.  

For certain periods of time, the Temple Mount was entirely closed to Jews, predominantly during and after spouts of Arab violence and terror. In contrast, the site is almost never closed to Muslims, except in exceptional circumstances, such as in July 2017, when the mount was closed for a few days, after terrorists murdered two Israeli policemen on patrol on the site. 

While no Israeli government ever ratified Dayan’s agreement, to this day, the “status quo” on the Temple Mount is that the internal part of the site is run by the Waqf and Israel is responsible for the external security and maintaining public order. Muslims are allowed to freely visit the site, in unlimited numbers, subject to fine tuning to take into account safety and security precautions. Jews are only permited to enter the site for limited hours of the day, and in limited numbers and are mostly not allowed to conduct individual or communal prayers. 

Since its creation, the Palestinian Authority has continuously and consistently used the Temple Mount as a means to inflame religious fervor and as a rallying call for violence and terror. Repeatedly claiming that Israel is planning to destroy the “Al-Aqsa Mosque” which it deceivingly defines as being 144 dunams in size - i.e. the entire area of the Temple Mount - the PA misleads the Palestinians, and indeed the entire Muslim world, into falsely believing that “Al-Aqsa is in danger.”  

While documents and 55 years of reality clearly demonstrate that Israel has no intention to even undermine, let alone destroy, any part of the site, the PA still claims, as shown by PMW, that “Since the June War (i.e., the Six-Day War in 1967) – we are talking about its 55th anniversary – there are [Israeli] intentions to destroy the Al-Aqsa Mosque and build the alleged Temple.” [Official PA TV, June 6, 2022]. For the PA, which has no say whatsoever regarding the manner in which the site is run, allowing Jews to pray on the Temple Mount would be no less than declaring World War III. Similar empty rantings were also made by the PA before the US moved its embassy in Israel to Jerusalem.   

Since 1967 a lot has changed. Over the last decades, most western societies have developed and adopted a much more heightened sense and value of personal freedoms and rights, including freedom of religion and religious practice. The idea that the decision of one person alone –Dayan - could prevent all Jews from praying at Judaism’s most holy site would, today, be inconceivable. At the same time, over the years, the desire and willingness of Jews to enter the Temple Mount has increased dramatically. 

Since it is now unreasonable to believe that Muslims are inherently incapable of recognizing the legitimate rights of Jews to pray on the Tempe Mount and expressing the religious tolerance required, maybe the time has come for Israel’s government to finally clarify, what exactly the “status quo” on the Temple mount was, is, and should be.      




(full article online)









						What is the “Status Quo” on the Temple Mount? | PMW Analysis
					

In 1967, one man, alone, set the "status quo" regarding the Temple Mount. The time has come for Israel to clarify what exactly the “status quo” on the Temple mount was, is, and should be.




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

A post by CAMERA Arabic

Following the wave of terrorism in Israel between late March and early May of 2022, CAMERA Arabic reviewed BBC Arabic social media posts about the four attacks which claimed the lives of unarmed Israeli civilians: in Beer Sheva on March 22nd, in Bnei Brak on March 29th, in Tel Aviv on April 7th and in Elad on May 5th. The comments sections of nearly all the 27 posts (8 posts on Facebook, 18 on Twitter and one on Youtube) were replete with antisemitic and terrorism-supporting content, expressing joy over the death of civilians and praising the perpetrators for murdering them.

Additionally, the comments sections of BBC Arabic posts covering Russian FM Sergey Lavrov’s remarks about the purported Jewish ancestry of Adolf Hitler included dozens of comments either denying the Holocaust, celebrating it or blaming it on the Jewish people. 

Although BBC editorial guidelines do not explicitly specify when hateful comments on social media needs to be monitored and screened (see below), it is the view of CAMERA Arabic and CAMERA UK that the corporation should nevertheless take responsibility, especially given the abundance and blatant nature of comments.

Comments in support of killing civilians:

On several webpages the number of comments praising the murder of civilians exceeded both the number of neutral comments and the very few comments that opposed the attacks and condemned murders of civilians. The YouTube webpage of one BBC Arabic video included approximately 600 comments that were supportive of the attacks out of about 1100 (55%). Less than a dozen (1%) comments opposed the attacks, typically by pointing out that the victims were civilians. Over 1200 supportive comments in total were made on eight BBC Arabic Facebook posts reporting and discussing the attacks. BBC Arabic Twitter accounts (“BBC Arabic” and “BBC Arabic – alerts”) garnered around 150 supportive comments in response to 18 tweets, again exceeding the number of neutral or opposing comments by a large margin.

Comments denying the Holocaust:

BBC Arabic’s coverage of the remarks by Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, who alluded to Adolf Hitler’s purported Jewish ancestry, was also shared via social media accounts operated by the service. In the seven posts on the matter promoted on YouTube, Facebook and Twitter, CAMERA Arabic counted at least 85 comments denying the Holocaust, praising it or collectively holding Jews responsible for it.

(full article online)









						BBC Arabic fails to moderate offensive comments on its social media accounts
					

A post by CAMERA Arabic  Following the wave of terrorism in Israel between late March and early May of 2022, CAMERA Arabic reviewed BBC Arabic social media po




					camera-uk.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

An Egyptian newspaper has come up with a brand new story:




> *An Old Jew Tells What Churchill Said About Palestine: Nothing Here Grows Without Roots*
> 
> A Jewish old woman who celebrated her 106th birthday a few days ago, said: “One hundred years ago, I was a six-year-old girl at that time who was commissioned to give Winston Churchill a bouquet of roses when he visited Palestine as Minister for the Colonies in 1921."
> 
> He went to visit the municipality of Tel Aviv, which the British established in 1909 (!) to be the first seed that they planted to grow later, so that Israel will be the desired homeland for the Jews of the world at the expense of the Palestinian Arab people of the land.
> 
> The old woman said that as part of decorating the Churchill reception area in the Tel Aviv municipality garden, the party organizers had to cut down pine trees near the borders of Lebanon and bring them in a hurry to Tel Aviv and planted them in the sandy soil of the municipality garden to beautify them to make them appear more beautiful and elegant and closer to the gardens of Europe!
> 
> The little girl, who is very old these days, said that she was bored minutes after the guest started giving his speech, and she leaned on one of the trees, so the tree leaned over towards the other trees and the deception appeared.
> 
> She said, as she watched Churchill burst out laughing he leaning toward the mayor and whispered in his ear words that the (old) girl later learned that he had told the mayor:
> 
> “I am afraid that your state will fall one day, even if we help you and the whole world helps you to establish it.. Nothing grows here without roots.”



A very nice story that is almost certainly a lie. If this old lady had said this story in a Hebrew newspaper, the Arabic account would have mentioned her name and the newspaper it came from. 

Churchill was very pro-Zionist when he visited Palestine in 1921. The Jerusalem Post had a nice article about it on the hundredth anniversary, and quoted him:



> [Churchill told a delegation of Arabs seeking his opposition to Zionism,] “It is manifestly right that the Jews should have a National Home where some of them may be reunited. And where else could that be but in this land of Palestine, with which for more than 3,000 years they have been intimately and profoundly associated.”
> 
> Churchill told the Jewish delegation which followed:
> “The cause of Zionism is one which carries with it much that is good for the whole world, and not only for the Jewish people; it will bring prosperity and advancement for the Arab population.”
> 
> Before returning to Cairo the evening of March 30, Churchill visited the then twelve-year-old Jewish town of Tel Aviv, meeting with its Mayor Meir Dizengoff, and the agricultural settlement in Rishon LeZion. On his return to London, he told the House of Commons:
> 
> “Anyone who has seen the work of the Jewish colonies will be struck by the enormous productive results which they have achieved from the most inhospitable soil.”












						A new Arab myth created about Churchill
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Mindful

These children at the Theresienstadt ghetto and camp appeared to be happy and healthy.
But this photograph was part of an elaborate hoax perpetrated by the Nazis.
The International Red Cross inspected Theresienstadt on this day in 1944 after Denmark’s government demanded information about Danish Jews imprisoned there.
To prepare for the visit, prisoners were forced to plant flowers and install benches and a playground. The Nazis deported thousands of prisoners to Auschwitz to alleviate overcrowding.
The visitors saw well-dressed inmates, a soccer game, and musical performances in this “spa town.” Prisoners were pawns in the Nazis' choreographed show.
“If anybody would have come two weeks later, there was nothing left. The swings were gone, the playpens were gone, the rocking horses were gone, and the children were gone—all into the gas chambers," said Marianka May, a Theresienstadt survivor.
The Nazis resumed deportations after the visit. In total, two-thirds of the 140,000 Jews sent to Theresienstadt were deported; most were then killed. An additional 33,000 died in the ghetto.










						Theresienstadt: Red Cross Visit
					






					encyclopedia.ushmm.org


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## Sixties Fan

Mindful said:


> View attachment 661314
> 
> 
> These children at the Theresienstadt ghetto and camp appeared to be happy and healthy.
> But this photograph was part of an elaborate hoax perpetrated by the Nazis.
> The International Red Cross inspected Theresienstadt on this day in 1944 after Denmark’s government demanded information about Danish Jews imprisoned there.
> To prepare for the visit, prisoners were forced to plant flowers and install benches and a playground. The Nazis deported thousands of prisoners to Auschwitz to alleviate overcrowding.
> The visitors saw well-dressed inmates, a soccer game, and musical performances in this “spa town.” Prisoners were pawns in the Nazis' choreographed show.
> “If anybody would have come two weeks later, there was nothing left. The swings were gone, the playpens were gone, the rocking horses were gone, and the children were gone—all into the gas chambers," said Marianka May, a Theresienstadt survivor.
> The Nazis resumed deportations after the visit. In total, two-thirds of the 140,000 Jews sent to Theresienstadt were deported; most were then killed. An additional 33,000 died in the ghetto.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theresienstadt: Red Cross Visit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> encyclopedia.ushmm.org


I started a thread "Holocaust History".





__





						Holocaust History
					

I have been seeing a lot of article and threads on the Holocaust but have not found one which deals with the History, before, during and after.  Therefore I am starting one now.  Any Holocaust denier is welcome to post and discuss here.  Discuss, not attack, or troll.    Proof that it did not...



					www.usmessageboard.com
				




Could you post any article like this over there?
Thanks.  I am always looking for more Holocaust stories to tell.


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## Mindful

Sixties Fan said:


> I started a thread "Holocaust History".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holocaust History
> 
> 
> I have been seeing a lot of article and threads on the Holocaust but have not found one which deals with the History, before, during and after.  Therefore I am starting one now.  Any Holocaust denier is welcome to post and discuss here.  Discuss, not attack, or troll.    Proof that it did not...
> 
> 
> 
> www.usmessageboard.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could you post any article like this over there?
> Thanks.  I am always looking for more Holocaust stories to tell.



Okay. Thanks.


----------



## Sixties Fan

A couple of weeks ago, a stone fell out of the wall in the Al Aqsa Mosque on the Temple Mount.

Naturally, the Jews are being blamed. 

The Islamic Information issued a press release:



> According to the chairman of the Palestinian Legislative Council’s al-Quds and al-Aqsa Committee, Mohammed Abu Halabiya, the Israeli underground tunnels, and diggings beneath the Aqsa Mosque pose a real threat to the future of the mosque.
> 
> MP Abu Halabiya announced on Monday that stones recently fell from an Aqsa Mosque wall as the result of Israeli digging underneath the area called the Umayyad Palaces, which stretches over 800 meters between Ein Silwan and the Buraq Wall.
> 
> As a result of Israel’s refusal to allow the Islamic Awqaf to perform renovation works in al-Quds,* the recurring fissures and cave-ins at the Aqsa Mosque endanger the entire holy site.*



Palestine Today adds:



> Sheikh Ikrima Sabri, the preacher of Al-Aqsa Mosque, confirmed today, Thursday, that the foundations of Al-Aqsa Mosque have become exposed as a result of the excavations of the Israeli occupation, explaining that “any strong earthquake will destroy these foundations after the occupation removes the surrounding soil.”
> 
> Sabri said, in a press statement: "The excavations carried out by the occupation in the vicinity of Al-Aqsa Mosque are ancient and modern excavations under the pretext of searching for traces of the Jews.
> 
> The preacher of Al-Aqsa added, "The Israeli occupation soldiers and settlers excavate and search and yet did not find a single piece of evidence related to Hebrew Jewish history."



Have you ever noticed that the Muslims always blame the Jews for causing damage at the Temple Mount due to digs in the surrounding areas - but they never mention that they do illegal digs directly under the Mount itself?

In the 1990s, the Waqf oversaw the conversion of "Solomon's Stables" into the huge Marwani Mosque and then dug a large tunnel to be an underground exit, throwing out hundreds of tons of priceless artifacts from the times of the First and Second Temples. But their wholesale destruction didn't end there.





When the Temple Mount was closed for Covid-19, the Waqf published photos of Muslims tasking advantage of the lack of Israeli oversight as they started digging another hole on the site.

In September 2020, a hole opened up on the Mount and the Waqf, instead of allowing archaeologists and experts to explore and carefully repair the hole, dumped concrete on it to ensure that any Jewish treasures would not be found.

It seems that Allah does not let excavations of tons of material nearly directly under Al Aqsa to damage the mosque. He only lets the damage be done by the Jews from scores of meters away. 










						Miracle at Al Aqsa: Only Israeli excavations endanger it, not Muslim underground destruction
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The main point of the article that “East Jerusalem stands as a symbol of statelessness” where Palestinian residents “suffer the practical consequences of their individual and collective lack of citizenship” is distorted by the false and partisan assumption that only Palestinians, but not Jews, legitimately claim the territory.   The author contends:



> In the 1948 Arab Israeli war, Zionist forces expelled some three quarters of a million Palestinian Arabs from their homeland.


This is a distortion of history: Three quarters of a million Arabs were not “expelled” by Zionist forces. The vast majority of Arab refugees were urged by their leaders to temporarily leave their homes during a war launched by their armies and fighters seeking to eliminate the Jewish state.

Even more pointedly, had Arab leaders not rejected the 1947 United Nations Partition Resolution that called for the land (then controlled by the British Mandate) to be divided into a Jewish state and an Arab state, had they not chosen instead to wage war on Israel in violation of the UN Charter, then Palestinian Arabs would have already been citizens of their own state for 74 years and there would have been no stateless Palestinian refugees. 

Robson ignores this essential point, just as she ignores the fact that the Palestinian Arabs’ homeland to which she refers is also the Jewish historic homeland, where Jews have resided for millennia since biblical times, including periods where they were sovereigns of the land. The Land of Israel, and the holy city of Jerusalem in particular, have always been central to Judaism and the focus of Jewish pilgrimages and prayer.   

In other words, rather than presenting the conflict  honestly and contextually as a bilateral one where territory claimed by both nations is under dispute, the historian  ignores basic historical facts in order to create a narrative of expulsion and dispossession of Arabs by Jews.

(full article online )









						The Wilson Center Promotes Anti-Israel Propaganda
					

Although the Wilson Center promotes itself as 'the nation’s key non-partisan policy forum,' a piece by outgoing Fellow Laura Robson, masquerading as a scholarly




					www.camera.org


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

A famous man once said, “A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.” When it comes to discussions about Israel and Zionism, the Jewish people’s liberation movement, this statement could not be more accurate. Many times, both journalists and social media influencers will share famous quotes about Israel that are either outright fabrications or deceptive misquotes. However, by the time the truth about these quotes is revealed, they have already been shared thousands of times and viewed by hundreds of thousands of people.

The following is a list of some of the most popular false quotes or misquotes about Israel that are still shared by both reputed news outlets and online celebrities:











						The Top 7 Fake Quotes & Misquotes About Israel | Honest Reporting
					

A famous man once said, "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." When it comes to discussions about Israel and




					honestreporting.com


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## Sixties Fan

[ 1920 - from Gaza.  1925 from TranJordan and then......]


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinians, one-sided critics of Israel and anti-Semites have little interest in historical facts. Nothing can penetrate their veil of ignorance. Still, there is hope for students whose minds have not yet been closed or poisoned by propaganda. One place to start is the myth about the Jews stealing Palestinians’ land. Even many people more familiar with the region’s history don’t know that the real thieves are the Hashemites of Jordan.

While the Jewish people have been inextricably connected to the land of Israel—what Westerners came to call Palestine—for 3,000 years, the current occupiers of two-thirds of Palestine arrived in the early 20th century after being expelled from their native land of Arabia.


The Hashemite family ruled over Mecca and Medina until it was defeated in 1924 by King Abdulaziz bin Saud, founder of the current Saudi kingdom. Beforehand, the Hashemites, led by Sharif Hussein, allied themselves with the British and mounted a successful revolt against the Ottoman Turks. As compensation for their assistance, the British decided to make Hussein’s sons kings of the territories carved out of the Ottoman Empire following World War I.

One of those territories was Palestine, which had been promised as the Jewish National Home by the Balfour Declaration. In 1921, however, “with the stroke of a pen one Sunday afternoon in Cairo,” Winston Churchill severed nearly four-fifths of Palestine—some 35,000 square miles—to create a new Arab entity, Transjordan. As a consolation prize for the Hijaz and Arabia going to the Saud family, Churchill rewarded Sharif Hussein’s son Abdullah by installing him as Transjordan’s emir.

The British government presented a memorandum to the League of Nations stating that Transjordan would be excluded from the provisions of the mandate for Palestine dealing with Jewish settlement. The League approved the proposal on Sept. 16, 1922. On June 17, 1946, Transjordan became an independent nation.

It is an article of faith on the far-left that Israel is an imperialist implant and that Palestinians, not Jews, are the indigenous people. They love the phrase “settler-colonialism.” The accusations do apply—to Jordan. The Palestinians were not indigenous to what is now Jordan but had a presence in the area for perhaps a thousand years after their ancestors left Arabia. The Hashemites had no connection to the land until the Arab revolt, and then Abdullah was imposed on the residents by imperial Britain.

The Palestinians, who identified primarily as Muslims and members of clans, objected to the division of Palestine, which they believed should be part of Greater Syria. They did not clamor for an independent Palestinian state.

The United Nation’s partition resolution called for the creation of a Jewish and Arab state in what was left of Palestine. Jordan joined the other Arab invasion forces in May 1948 to destroy the new State of Israel and divide the spoils—not to create a Palestinian state. The Arabs lost the war, but Egypt occupied the Gaza Strip. Abdullah captured most of the territory allocated for an Arab state and part of Jerusalem—which was supposed to be internationalized—and annexed them. Only Britain and Pakistan recognized Jordan’s occupation of the West Bank.

Where were the defenders of the Palestinians’ right to self-determination? Where were the U.N. resolutions calling for the establishment of a Palestinian state? Where were the human rights crusaders and the boycott advocates?

One of many inconsistencies in the Palestinian narrative about their “ancestral home” is that the Palestinians did not demand the establishment of a Palestinian state in Judea and Samaria. Palestinians and their supporters are at a loss to explain this, so they pretend those 19 years of Jordanian occupation were a gap in the timeline of Middle East history.

What more evidence do you need that the Palestinian national movement and its enablers are anti-Semitic? Under Arab/Muslim rule, no one had a problem with the occupation of Judea and Samaria, and it was unquestionably occupied then rather than disputed as it is today. Is it pure coincidence that occupation of that part of “Palestine” only became a concern when it came under Jewish administration?

Jordan lost Judea and Samaria to Israel in the 1967 Six-Day War, but still occupies an area that once was Palestine. Still, you never hear Palestinians or their supporters direct their vitriol at Jordan.

The Palestinians claim they were in Palestine from time immemorial, descendants of the Canaanites. Why then don’t they complain about Jordan taking their land? Why doesn’t the nakba (“catastrophe”) apply to the loss of statehood caused by King Abdullah and his fellow Arab leaders?
------------
Besides Palestinian and Jordanian opposition to the idea, recognizing Jordan as Palestine would have mostly negative consequences for the United States and Israel. It would mean the end of the pro-Western Hashemite dynasty. It would give Palestinians, potentially led by Islamists, control over an area more than four times larger than Israel, a stronger state than what two-staters advocate and a direct link to Israel’s most implacable enemies. The Palestinians, who covet the small fraction of Palestine that is Israel, are too myopic to see the benefits of the Jordan solution. Many Israelis who make this case are equally foolish, because Palestine replacing Jordan would create a greater security threat than a rump state in a portion of Judea and Samaria linked to Gaza, which would be surrounded by stronger powers whose interest is to ensure the Palestinian state remains as weak and unthreatening as possible.

Still, the fact remains that Jordan is the occupier denying Palestinians self-determination and most guilty of the sins detractors attribute to Israel.

(full article online)









						Who stole Palestinian land? Jordan
					

The Hashemites had no connection to the land until the Arab revolt, and then Abdullah was imposed on the residents by imperial Britain.




					www.jns.org


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## watchingfromafar

*As a passerby, I heard some words about Jewish history.*

If truth be told, as I see it; there are two major groups of Jews.

[1] European/American Jews
[2] there are Israelis

#1 believes in the “law”
#2 believes in, “I was chosen, you were not”.
#2 believes “Palestinians are the enemy”
#2 believes Kill the young before they can defend themselves

Just google “IDF shooting children”
IDF shooting children - Blender Networks Yahoo Search Results

Is this or is this not a part of Jewish history-?
As a passerby, I heard some words about Jewish history.

If truth be told, ass I see it; there are two major groups of Jews.

[1] European/American Jews
[2] there are Israelis

#1 believes in the “law”
#2 believes in, “I was chosen, you were not”.
#2 *believes “Palestinians are the enemy”*
*#2 Kill the young before they can defend themselves*

*Just google “IDF shooting children”*
IDF shooting children - Blender Networks Yahoo Search Results

For the here and now; blood bath

-
Is this or is this not a part of Jewish history-?

As a passerby, I heard some words about Jewish history.
If truth be told, as I see it; there are two major groups of Jews.

[1] European/American Jews
[2] there are Israelis

#1 believes in the “law”
#2 believes in, “I was chosen, you were not”.
#2 believes “Palestinians are the enemy”
#2 Kill the young before they can defend themselves

Just google “IDF shooting children”
IDF shooting children - Blender Networks Yahoo Search Results
To see the here and now blood bath

-

*Benjamin Netanyahu’s lifelong goal— is---
Murder Palestinian children before they can defend themselves !!*

the truth will set you free
-


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## Sixties Fan

September 1894:








In a roundup of the year's stories in 1903 from the Louisville Courier-Journal, we see this from July 26:





(I could not verify this incident.)

In November 1903, the New York Times reported:





September 1906:





April 1912:







Well, we know that Jews lived in peace in Arab lands for centuries before Zionism. After all - the Arabs keep telling us that!

These Arabs who murdered Jews every few years must have been just anti-Zionist. 











						Jews murdered in Morocco on multiple occasions from 1894-1912: They must have been Zionists
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

Iran's Mehr News describes "What does the word 'Zionist' mean?"

Written by Hezbollah's "foreign relations official" Khalil Rizk, it is a bizarre description of Judaism from someone who has never met a Jew in his life.

Here is what I learned about Judaism/"Zionism":

* The followers of the Zionist idea believe in their faith that the Messiah, the Savior, will come at the end of time to lead his people to Zion, the “holy land” and rule the world.

* Not every Jew is necessarily a Zionist. An example of this is Orthodox Judaism, which forbids the collective return of the Jews to Palestine and considers it heretical.

* Sephardic Jews they look down on the Ashkenazi Jews, and therefore they were forbidden to marry them.

* Dancing in prayer gained great importance for the Jewish groups in Eastern Europe, and it became a part of their daily lives. It became a kind of religious ritual through which the dancer reaches a state of ecstasy and religious joy, as they dance in circles. The dance begins slowly, then gradually increases in rhythm until it reaches a state of ecstasy, accompanied by swaying movements, movements of hands and feet, jumping in the air and applause, and so on until the Jewish dance with prayer became one of the sacred duties, and there is a special prayer that they recite right before the dance.

* Among the prominent landmarks in Al-Aqsa Mosque is the Al-Buraq Wall; It is the western wall of the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, or the "Wailing Wall," as the Jews call it, because their prayers there take the form of weeping and wailing.  The wall was not part of the alleged Jewish temple, and there is no evidence that the temple was located at the Al-Buraq Wall. It became for the Jews a place of worship after the issuance of the Balfour Declaration in 1917.




_Jews praying at the Kotel, 1880_

We can learn so much about Judaism from Iranians and their allies!

If nothing else, this article proves that when Iranians and Hezbollah say "Zionist" they really mean "Jewish."










						In Mehr News, Hezbollah and Iran goysplain Judaism
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

Indeed, in no time in history was the West Bank “Palestinian territory” until the Oslo Accords put limited areas (Areas A and B) under control of the Palestinian Authority. These Palestinian-controlled areas do not include Area C of the West Bank, upon which all Israeli settlements are located.

NBC agreed that a correction was in order, and subsequently amended the text to accurately refer to “Jewish settlements on disputed territory Palestinians hope will form part of a future state.” In addition, editors commendably appending the following clarification to the bottom of the article:



> *CLARIFICATION *(June 29, 2022, 12:23 p.m. ET): This article has been changed to reflect that Jewish settlements are on disputed land that Palestinians hope will form part of a future state.


Other media outlets which have previously commendably corrected the inaccurate designation of disputed West Bank lands as “Palestinian” include _The New York Times_, _Los Angeles Times_, Voice of America, _Wall Street Journal_, and _The Washington Post_.

(full article online)









						NBC Corrects: Israeli Settlements Not on 'Palestinian Territory'
					

CAMERA prompts an NBC correction clarifying that Jewish settlements are located on disputed land that Palestinians hope will form part of a future state.




					www.camera.org


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## Sixties Fan

In 2016, a lawsuit was filed by Bassem al-Tamimi and many others against a host of American Jews and companies, including Sheldon Adelson, Elliott Abrams, Fox News and the United States itself, alleging that they are supporting genocide against the Palestinian people.

Recently, one of the plaintiffs - Abdul-Rahim Dib Dubar - filed his own motion for immediate partial summary judgment in the case. 

His motion looks like it was copied and pasted a crazed antisemitic website - including all caps.

Here's one page of 30, but most of them look like this, with falsified quotes that have been debunked hundreds of times. 

------------

This unhinged antisemitic rant reveals the antisemitism behind the Palestinian cause. The plaintiff isn't even embarrassed at his ravings. Brainwashed, he submits the antisemitic stories he sees on the Internet as truth. 

Dubar is asking for $1.2 billion in compensation for his family, who left of their own accord from Acre in 1948. (Thousands of Arabs in Acre stayed.) 

(full article online)










						Crazed, antisemitic rant submitted as a motion in US District Court
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

The whole premise is even more absurd when considering the fact that Israel is a multicultural society with equal rights for all. In a Nazi society this wasn’t the case. Jews were stripped of all rights. They were forbidden from holding public office or working in academia. Jewish books were burned and it was forbidden to have sexual relations with Jews. By contrast, Arabs in Israel can and do hold the highest office, arabic books are printed, and Arabs and Jews have sex. Good for them. It’s nice to know someone’s having fun.

If Jews and Israel aren’t behaving like Nazis in either thought or deed, why does this allegation exist? There are a few reasons. None of them complicated. Firstly, Holocaust inversion is a way for Europe to assuage their guilt over their role in the extermination of Jews. If it turns out we’re evil like the Nazis - well then it wasn’t such a bad thing that people collaborated or turned a blind eye to our deaths. The eagerness to believe Jews _are_ disposed to such evil is itself a case of simple, old school antisemitism. Being able to throw the Holocaust in the face of its Jewish victims adds a deliciously taboo, antisemitic frisson, calibrated to cause maximum pain and degradation to the Jews that hear it.

Then there’s the role it can play in hurting the world’s only Jewish country. The goal of pro-Palestinian extremists who reject peace, despise Jewish self-determination and who seek arab-muslim hegemony in the Middle East is to say whatever is conducive towards channeling hatred at Israel. As Nazism is synonymous with evil, a civilised person would endorse anything - including violence - to eradicate such evil. Equating Israel with Nazism incites the destruction of the Jewish State and the genocide of its inhabitants. It now becomes clear that Holocaust inversion is actually a strategy for Holocaust _continuation. _

It also incites violence against Jews living in America, Britain, France and the entire diaspora. Most Jews in the world support the right of Israel to exist on land to which Jewish origins are indigenous and which is central to Jewish identity. But if it transpires that these Jews are supporting “_Nazis_” - then they deserved to be ostracised, screamed at, shoved and punched, right? 

In conclusion: the notion that Israel and the Jews are acting like modern days Nazis is ridiculous and hateful. It is an assault on history and aims to inspire actual assault on Jews today. It reveals the level of hatred and danger that still exists for Jews. And so when people mockingly say, “_Haven’t the Jews learned the lesson of the Holocaust?_” We answer: yes we have - that’s why Israel exists.

(full article online)









						ARE JEWS THE NEW NAZIS?
					

The internet is awash with claims that Jews are like Nazis. This comes through insinuation or is explicitly stated. Some say Israelis are behaving like the Nazis today. Others, (invariably the same people), say Jews collaborated with Hitler in the past.




					leekern.substack.com


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## Sixties Fan

The article you’re reading now addresses the claim that Hitler and Jewish Zionists collaborated back in the 1930s. Once again the notion is entirely mischievous. The goal is to depict Israel and Jews as unremittingly evil and to therefore legitimise violence against them. If Zionism and Nazism are fraternal brothers - and if Nazism is a crime against civilisation - then Zionism must similarly be extinguished.

It’s elementary to even say this, but sane and decent people should know intellectually and instinctively that Zionism is not Nazism: it is a _response_ and _solution_ to Nazism. The goals of Nazis and Zionists never overlapped - despite attempts to misrepresent scattered evidence in order to reach perverted conclusions. The “evidence” in question is the Haavara Agreement. This agreement was reached in 1933 between Nazi Germany and some Zionist German Jews. It allowed German Jews - living under Nazism - to sell their assets in Germany. A Jew could transfer their money to the Haavara Company. Haavara then had to use this money to purchase goods manufactured in Nazi Germany. These German-made goods would then be sold in the British Mandate in Palestine. Any German Jew who managed to escape Nazi Germany and reach this destination would then receive their proceeds from the sale of these goods. Approximately 60,000 German Jews who sold their possessions did manage to escape Nazi Germany through this scheme in the years 1933–1939.

Those who claim Hitler’s desire for Jews to _leave_ Germany, and Zionists wanting Jews to _escape_ Germany means they collaborated in pursuit of a shared goal, have made a monstrous assault on history. It is an hateful attack on the memory of one of the most unfortunate, unempowered groups of the 20th century: Jews trapped between a rock and the Holocaust. It removes all intention and motivation from the equation. It removes all context. It removes the power dynamics at play. It removes the entire truth of the relationship: that Jews in Nazi Germany weren’t equal citizens - they were hostages. Jews weren’t voluntarily walking to freedom. They were being made to walk the plank.

We could also add that the British Mandate in Palestine was just one of _many_ places the Nazis wanted Jews to emigrate to. They simply wanted to get rid of their Jews and plunder all they could from them. Do we say Britain collaborated with the Nazis because they also took in German Jewish refugees? Do we say Britain is therefore equivalent to Nazi Germany and has no right to exist?

Of course we don’t. Because the accusation of Zionist-Nazi collaboration is a racist trick to incite hatred against Israel and Jews.

Let’s put it simply: Zionism wanted to _save_ Jews - Nazism wanted to _kill_ Jews.

The goal of Jews was to live freely with dignity. 

Hitler's goal was to strip them of every freedom and dignity.

Jews wanted to thrive. 

Hitler wanted to burn, gas, shoot and drown them. 

As the pretty reasonable goal of being alive could not be met under Hitler, Jews sought emancipation through the liberation movement of Zionism and to join other Jews already living on the land to which their origins are indigenous. 

To say Hitler supported Zionism is as stupid as saying Hitler supported Jewish pride by giving them yellow stars to wear…

…or that he helped create more leisure time for Jews by passing laws closing their shops….

…or that he made Jewish neighbourhoods safer by building walls round them and placing soldiers with machine guns outside…

…or that Kristallnacht was an attempt by Hitler to provide air conditioning to Jewish shops on those famously warm German winter evenings… 

…or that he helped Jews with their feng shui by taking their possessions and allowing them to embrace minimalism…

…or that such a big fan of the Jewish mother-in-law joke was Hitler that he passed a law forbidding Jews to marry any non-Jews in order to preserve his favourite comedy…

…or that he wanted life to be one big spring break for Jews so barred them from attending universities…

…or that he loved Jews so much that he funded a German expedition to try and find them across the whole of Europe and carried on doing so in spite of the best efforts of Britain, America and the allied nations to stop him…

It's absurd.

Zionism wanted to _save_ Jews - Nazism wanted to _kill_ Jews. 

I guess this is too subtle a difference for those so blinded by dogmatic opposition to Israel and Jewish self-determination that they’re prepared to rewrite the history of a minority whose backs were against the wall in a way we should shudder to imagine. 

Zionism was, and is, the emancipation movement of the Jewish People. Those who oppose it are the ones who actually have a closer kinship with Nazis in their desire to strip Jews of a right they happily bestow upon others. Seeing as we do live in a world where intentions towards Jews can often seem indistinguishable from those held by Nazi Germany - thank G-d for Zionism.

(full article online )










						DID ZIONISTS COLLABORATE WITH HITLER?
					

This is the second of two articles. The first article deals with the assertion that present day Israel behaves the same way towards Palestinians as Nazis did towards Jews. In that article I outline why the notion is absurd and the toxic reasons why Jew-haters make the claim. It can be found




					leekern.substack.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Mindful

Zionism- David Lange.


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## Sixties Fan

Part  1

This article was written by the late Rabbi Yakov Goldman, who served for many years with the Joint Distribution Committee in Israel. It first appeared in the Winter 1975 issue of Shma Yisrael magazine, published by Ohr Somayach. Although some of the material is dated, we feel that most of it is very relevant to our current situation and are therefore putting it on the Web just as he wrote it.

A closer look at the history of Jerusalem calls into question the designations of its districts. Just how non-Jewish are the Armenian, Christian, and Moslem Quarters? Is the Jewish Quarter simply Jerusalem's 'Lower East Side'?​
Many people today are concerned about the future of the Old City of Jerusalem. The Pope, for example, is reported to have met the heads of three African states and, together, they decided Jerusalem should be international. Well, as the head of a Church called Catholic, i.e. universal, it may be expected of the Pope to view all things sub specie universelas. "Internationalize Jerusalem! Let every nation have a share in it!" King Hussein, not so general nor 'liberal-minded,' says he wants it for himself he wants complete control over Old Jerusalem. There are many other suggestions about the future of Jerusalem, but on one thing many seem to agree: Jerusalem should again be divided into two cities - the Israeli, i.e. the new city, and the Old City - which should no longer be part of the capital of the State of Israel. On that both the Pope and King Hussein appear decided.






I do not intend to discuss the historic claims of Jews, or Israel, to Jerusalem as its capital, nor do I want to go into the political issues as to whether it's feasible to make Jerusalem once again a divided or internationalized city. But I do want to discuss one particular aspect of this problem.

Many say to us Jews that, even in the best of days before the establishment of the State, Jews only lived in one section of the Old City, called the Jewish Quarter, and, since there are four quarters, and we have had only one, what claim do we have to sovereignty over the whole of the Old City? Unfortunately, I find that not only non-Jews, but even Jews seem to accept this apparently reasonable 'fact.' We Jews also speak of the "Jewish" Quarter. Even the Israeli government has laid down special regulations about the Jewish Quarter, regarding settlement of Jews, which do not equally apply to the other quarters. I see in this a false assumption, and a great danger if we accept such a way of thinking. For, in actuality, the entire Old City, all four quarters, has been inhabited by Jews for at least the last few centuries. And Jewish population has been, if not a majority, a substantial minority in these quarters, at various points in history.










						Jerusalem Quartered by Rabbi Yakov Goldman O.B.M.
					





					ohr.edu


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## Sixties Fan

Part 2

Divisions

Now, think of Jerusalem as a rectangle, crisscrossed by two streets that divide the city, into east, west, north and south. The first street runs from Damascus Gate to the Zion Gate and divides the city into east and west. The second street runs from Jaffa Gate - way down as you go to the Kotel (Western Wall). Don't turn right, however, as you would to go to the Kotel, but go on towards the Temple Mount, and that street divides the city into north and south. As a result, you get four quarters.





These four quarters are named after the communities that were supposed to have occupied them exclusively. If we enter through the Jaffa Gate and go down David Street there is the Christian quarter on the left, and in that quarter, you have the Church of the Sepulchre, the Tomb of Jesus, and the homes of the Patriarchs. You have the Latin, i.e. the Catholic Patriarchs, and the Greek Orthodox Patriarch, who is the head of the so-called 'Russian' Church. And then as you continue down David Street, to your right, you have the Armenian Quarter. When you get to the Jews Street (from there to the left is the Moslem Quarter) you have the greater part of the Temple area. And to the right is the fourth quarter, which, we are told is called Jewish Quarter, with the obvious implication that the others are not 'Jewish.' Incidentally, the Jewish Quarter -everything to the right - is not strictly Jerusalem, but is called Mount Zion. According to a number of books written about two hundred years ago, there was a stone marking the boundary between Zion, i.e. the so-called 'Jewish' Quarter and the so-called 'Moslem' Quarter, which was Jerusalem proper.










						Jerusalem Quartered by Rabbi Yakov Goldman O.B.M.
					





					ohr.edu


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## Sixties Fan

Part 3 

Map Makers and Labels

This arrangement of Jerusalem into four neighborhoods, named according to the ethnic affiliation of the people who lived there: Christian, Armenian, Moslem, Jewish, is a very artificial and arbitrary division of the city. These classifications are more for the convenience of map-makers than an actual ethnographic description. In the Armenian Quarter, for example, there is only one Armenian church, but there are four churches of other denominations: the Syrian Church, the Maronite Catholic, the Greek Orthodox of St. George, and the Anglican, just opposite the Tower of David. Besides that there is the Catholic welfare station and the Lutheran hostel. All this in the Armenian Quarter. So it is obvious to anyone who walks through the area that though called the Armenian Quarter, it does not mean that only Armenians live there.



A similar situation prevails in the Moslem Quarter. If you go there in December you'll see that it's really a good 'Christian' quarter, because the greater part of the Via Dolorosa, a street that has significance only for Christians, lies in the Moslem Quarter, and it is lined on both sides with a great number of Christian sites, such as the Church of St. Anne, the Convent of the Sisters of Zion, Ecce Homo Church, the White Father Seminary, Austrian Hospice, and a number of monasteries; to name only some of the sites. So that just walking through these quarters you see at once that their names, like many names, are misleading if you accept them in the sense of being exclusive. This is apparent to anyone who walks through the streets of Jerusalem. However, what is unfortunately no longer so obvious is that in the three 'non-Jewish' quarters, there was an equally extensive Jewish settlement.

This fact is no longer obvious because, as may not be known, Jews have been driven from those quarters, and the signs of their previous settlement are no longer conspicuous. When I arrived in Jerusalem on my first trip, in 1924, everything was still conspicuous, and you could see the full extent of the settlement of the Jews in the whole of the Old City. However, things began to change after World War I, when the British arrived and took over. There were outbreaks of Arab mob violence in 1920, 1929 and 1937 - and the British said to the Jews, "Why do you live in far flung sections of the city? Withdraw into the Jewish Quarter and we will be able to protect you." When they got us into the Jewish Quarter, they said: "You're living too close to the edge move inwards." Finally they got us into a corner and annihilated the settlement.










						Jerusalem Quartered by Rabbi Yakov Goldman O.B.M.
					





					ohr.edu


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## Sixties Fan

Part 4

The "Armenian" Quarter

In the Armenian Quarter only one sector is actually occupied by the Armenian compound. The Armenian compound has a wall around it enclosing the big cathedral and its adjoining buildings. The rest of the quarter had to have a name. It wasn't Jewish, it wasn't Moslem, it wasn't Christian. So they applied to this section the name of its neighbor Armenian - simply a convenient fiction. Recently, an American Christian scholar made a study of the divisions of Jerusalem, and rightly calls this sector Hart el Yahud which means "The Jewish Section (of the Armenian Quarter)." Thus, here is an admission, from a non-Jew, that the 'Armenian Quarter' had a very heavy concentration of Jews.


The Armenian Quarter, on the west, and the Jewish Quarter, on the east, are divided by Chabad Street (Suq El Hussor Road). In other words, one half of Chabad Street is Jewish, the other half Armenian. Now, on one side of the Armenian Quarter there is, right opposite the Chabad Synagogue, a very famous yeshiva of Kabbalists called Yeshiva Hesed El, which was built in 1860 by a Jew from Baghdad. He endowed the yeshiva with a famous library of Kabbalistic works. Right next to Yeshiva Hesed El was the center of the Ashkenazi settlement in the Jewish quarter: the Hurva (Desolation) Synagogue, although the Hurva was far from desolate. It had a yeshiva and two big synagogues (the older one is still standing) and was a very busy center. Before theHurva Synagogue was built, a century ago, the center of the Ashkenazi Jews was also in the Armenian Quarter, in a compound called chatzer, i.e. a square around which homes are built. It was called the Chatzer of Rebbe Shayeh - Reb Shayeh Bardakee - also known by the name of its synagogue, Sukat Shalom. Besides tens of dwellings, and a mikva (ritual immersion pool) and this beautiful synagogue, it was the seat of the Bet Din (Court) of Reb Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld. Built with money provided by the Jews of Amsterdam in 1836, it was the center of the Ashkenazi Jewish settlement until replaced by the Hurva.

Another very interesting building in the Armenian Quarter, is adjacent to the St. George Church. It was purchased by a Turkish rabbi who, in 1604, wrote a will in which he describes this building which he was leaving to his children so you can see how long ago he bought it. He delineated the boundaries, and mentions the church as one of them. The building is still standing; it is being renovated now. Strange thing: in his will, the Rabbi warns his descendants not to let the building out of the family's possession. "I bought this building," he writes, "so that when Mashiach comes, and we have revival of the dead, I will have a home in Jerusalem. And so, I want the building to remain in our possession." It has not gone out of the possession of this family, even until now. Two hundred years ago there was family litigation about this particular property and one of the rabbis, in his official response, quotes this will as a proof of the family's ownership from that early date.

There is, also, in the Armenian Quarter a whole section belonging to Jews called the chosh (in Arabic: a pen, an enclosure for animals). It was bought by a Hungarian Jew, named Zadok Kraus. The old-timers still call it Reb Zadok's Chosh. The story goes that he bought it for a sack of rice. (Some say it was a sack of potatoes, but they didn't have potatoes in those days -- it was a luxury unknown to this part of the world so it must have been rice which he offered the Arab owner.) Land didn't have the great value it does now in Jerusalem, and a sack of rice was a fair price then. In the chosh there are about thirty Jewish homes and two synagogues still standing today.










						Jerusalem Quartered by Rabbi Yakov Goldman O.B.M.
					





					ohr.edu


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## Sixties Fan

Part 5

The "Christian"  Quarter

 remember Christian Street as a street of shops many of which were Jewish. In 1875 a German, named Gott, came here and wrote about Jerusalem. He describes it street by street. When he comes to the Christian Street he says that, 'unfortunately' all the shops on this street are owned by Jews and it could just as well be called the Jews' Street. I still remember a building on Christian Street (if you want to take the trouble to locate it, it's No. 80 - there's a parlor there now where you can have a tattoo done) where there was a synagogue. About forty years ago, as I was going to the Kotel on Shabbat, a man standing on the corner of Christian Street asked me if I could be a tenth (to a minyan). It was a synagogue of Yanina Jews - Yanina is a community in the north of Greece and its Jews had two synagogues in Jerusalem, one in the Ohel Moshe Quarter and this one in the Old City. Many Greek Jews had their shops on Christian Street and, nearby, the market called Aftimos was all Jewish. There also exists a copy of a deed of transfer dated 1826 of one Jew transferring his property in the Christian Quarter to another Jew. So you have an idea as to how 'Christian' the Christian Quarter was.











						Jerusalem Quartered by Rabbi Yakov Goldman O.B.M.
					





					ohr.edu


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## Sixties Fan

Part 6 

The "Muslim"  Quarter


The Moslem Quarter is described in detail by one of the great rabbis of Jerusalem, who died ten years ago, Ben-Zion Yadler. Rabbi Yadler would go to the Kotel on Tisha B'av at midnight, when he would begin teaching Midrash. Up till twelve o'clock he wouldn't appear - there were too many 'Zionists' who used to come. But at twelve we would all gather together and he would tell us about Jerusalem. I remember once that Arabs began throwing stones at us. He said to us in Yiddish, "Don't be upset. You wanted them to give you back Palestine; they're giving it to you stone by stone."

He writes a full description of what is today called the Moslem Quarter, and says as follows: Not only did the majority of Jews of Jerusalem live in the so-called 'Moslem' Quarter, but, also the more important Jews lived there, rather than in other sections of the city. And he goes on to describe twenty-two synagogues (I've been able to locate practically all of them), many mikvaot and yeshivot, among them, the biggest yeshiva in that part of the city - which is fortunately still standing - Torat Chaim. As you come from Damascus Gate, it's on the left side of El Wad Road. Very strange: it is right on the Via Dolorosa part of the street. (The Via Dolorosa curves at one point, and part of it is on El Wad Road.)



Then you have another big yeshiva, Chaye Olam, with a Talmud Torah of twenty-two classrooms -- each classroom today is an Arab home. (A Talmud Torah consists of eight grades, and here there were three parallel classes.) Part of the building is now unused. That part was never finished because the Arabs brought a case against it in 1927 when the yeshiva wanted to start a new wing. They weren't able to finish it, so they just have the walls up. The yeshiva is close to what is the holiest part of Jerusalem for Jews. Here is an entrance to the Temple area. It's calledBab el-Katunin which means Gate of Cotton, because there were cotton shops there. It's now being repaired by the Moslems. It leads straight to the Mosque of Omar which is called by the Arabs Sakra, meaning the 'Mosque covering the stone' which is our Even Shtia the holiest spot for Jews in this world, the ancient Holy of Holies, the stone upon which the Ark rested.

There is another building, very close to the golden-domed mosque, which a Hungarian Jew, who arrived here about a hundred years ago, put up. In that building were two yeshivot called Mishmarot(Watches) because twenty-four hours a day Torah was studied there. Rabbi Yadler described how at midnight one group would come from the farthest corners of Jerusalem and another group would go home at that late hour to a place called Bab-el-Hota, close to the Lions Gate. I was still able to find one or two Jews who lived there in their youth. A synagogue was there, but it's been abandoned for over forty years. You can still see the building near two Turkish baths. One is on the corner of the Bab-el-Katunin, and is called Hamam-el-en; and closer to the Temple Mount, very close, is the second bathhouse. Both of these bath-houses had good mikvaot under the supervision of rabbis. The Arab owners didn't want to lose Jewish trade, and they made special arrangements for mikvaot.










						Jerusalem Quartered by Rabbi Yakov Goldman O.B.M.
					





					ohr.edu


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## Sixties Fan

Part 6

Build First, Ask Later





There was a very strange Turkish law in effect when this building was erected. Usually in building, you first have a plan, you get your plan approved by the government, and then you build. Well, by Turkish Law, they build first and then they make a plan and have it approved. But if you built not in accordance with the regulations, there was a law: once built, it could not be torn down. So you did a lot of building at night, under cover of darkness, and then, in the morning, the inspector came around, and even though the building wasn't according to regulations, it could not be torn down. This particular building was close to the Temple Mount and the Arabs objected to its being put up, so it was completed in one night. Two walls were put up at night, and because they were built with self-sacrifice, they are still standing. The other two walls, no longer are.


Lower East Side

So, you see, Jews lived not only in the 'Jewish' section. It's just as if someone would say today, "Jews in New York live only on the Lower East Side, not Brooklyn, not Bronx, not Queens - nowhere else." It's equally ridiculous for someone to say, "You lived only in the 'Jewish' section of Jerusalem." Jews lived in the Armenian section, in the Moslem section, and they had a synagogue and owned most of the shops in the Christian section.


Control




Once again, people are reviving the issue of international control of Jerusalem. Even such an authority as Dr. Kissinger has said that Jerusalem is holy to the three religions. There is a very great distinction. However, for the Christians and Moslems there are holy places in Jerusalem. But the city, as a whole, is not holy to them. However, to Jews the city itself is holy. We have the regulations in the Mishna: "The whole world is holy to Jews; Eretz Yisrael is holier, Jerusalem is still holier, the Temple Mount is holiest." There is a special sanctity that pervades Jerusalem as a city (irrespective of whether there happens to be there synagogues or other holy sites) which is not the same for Islam or Christianity.

In the idea of international control, there also lies a great danger. International cities do not work anywhere. It means bringing the Soviet Union into the picture, controlling the holiness of Jerusalem, and we know just how much holiness of religion means to them. It is the thin edge of the wedge for them to get something more than just control of the holy places. Holy places merit special treatment consulates, for instance, are extra-territorial. In the same way you might let Christians own their Sepulchre and manage it as they please, but that doesn't mean that you have to grant them control over the city ... In New York you have St. Patrick's Cathedral but that does not give the Catholics control over New York. Nor is New York, with all its sects, under international control.










						Jerusalem Quartered by Rabbi Yakov Goldman O.B.M.
					





					ohr.edu


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## Sixties Fan

Part 7

The Messiah and the Pope

When Jerusalem was under the exclusive control of the Moslems for nineteen years, under Trans-Jordan, no one was worried about it. The Pope wasn't worried about it. King Hussein certainly wasn't worried about it. Only when Jews get control does the world get worried. It is interesting that there is no conflict between the different religions about any particular site. We have no interest in the Sepulchre, and Christians have no interest in the Hurva Synagogue. It is only in Hebron where we have a clash. The Tomb of the Patriarchs is sacred to Moslems and Jews. But Jerusalem is different even in the Wall the Arabs showed no real interest. Christianity, however, has a basic belief which to them is proof that Jesus really was 'Messiah': the fact that the Jews, because they never really accepted him, are in Galut (Exile) for 2000 years. They keep saying: "These people are the proof of the truth of Christianity. These people have been cursed and they'll never have their country back until they accept Jesus as the Messiah." All of a sudden the Jews get their country back and young Christian people come and say to their religious leaders: "What's happened to all your theories? Jews have got their country back." So they begin to get worried.



I happened to have been present at a discussion on a very high level on this matter between Chief Rabbi Herzog and the Pope. This goes back to 1940 when I was Rabbi Herzog's private secretary. Since he was an Irishman and I was an American we could both travel in Europe; other nationals could not because war had been declared. (I am ashamed to tell that I traveled with a passport that said "missionary." We were scheduled to leave at six in the morning. At about eleven the preceding night, the American Consul informed me, "I'm sorry new regulations came out that you can't travel without first being cleared by Washington. That'll take a long time." I went over the regulations and noticed that two groups could travel - one was missionaries - so I said, "Mr. Consul, I'm covered, I'm going on a mission." So he said to me, "If it's all right with you, it's all right with me. But what will the Chief Rabbi say about it?" I said, "I'll tell him when I get back." So my passport said "missionary.")

We came to Rome, and when the rabbi spoke with the Pope, the question of the Jews returning to their land came up. The Chief Rabbi told him that the Pope would gain much if he could show the hand of Providence bringing back the Jews to their homeland after such a long time the fulfillment of prophecy, etc. That would mean more to Catholic youth than anything else. The Pope knew that what he said was true. He also knew that Jews have bent over backwards to show the Christian world that we take good care of their interests. It could not be otherwise, as I have pointed out many times to Christians. We have six million Jews in America and millions more in other Christian countries. Are we going to antagonize the Christian countries? For what? And yet, Christian public opinion is still largely in favor of internationalizing Jerusalem.












						Jerusalem Quartered by Rabbi Yakov Goldman O.B.M.
					





					ohr.edu


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## Sixties Fan

Part 8

The Prince of Peace

Oddly, the only people who fight over the Sepulchre are the Christians themselves. It's divided among a number of Christian sects - The Greek Orthodox, the Catholics, the Armenians and the Copts; they keep fighting over which group has rights to it. Sometimes they even fight over the right to clean part of the floor and these are terrific fights. To keep the peace, there always was an Arab (of a certain Arab family in the Old City -- it was hereditary) who held the key to the Sepulchre - he opened and closed the doors. A Turkish guard in Turkish days and in British days, a Moslem guard had to watch that the Christians did not fight among themselves. They used to tell a story about a family of Christians who came here from England and took their little daughter to see the sites, and she saw this guard who kept the peace at the Holy Sepulchre. She came home, and her minister asked her: "You saw everything in Jerusalem?" She said, "Oh yes." "And did you see the Holy Sepulchre?" "Oh yes, and not only that, but I saw the Prince of Peace!" "The Prince of Peace?" he asked. And she proceeded to describe this Arab guard who kept the peace ...

What Israel has done since 1967, is remove that Arab guard and hand the keys over to the Christians themselves. The Jews went to the Patriarchs of the Churches and said, "You decide among yourselves who is going to administer the Sepulchre Church." They were told they could go to the court, but should not fight. And today, they no longer have this disgrace of having their holy place under the jurisdiction of Moslems or Jews. So, Christians really should be quite happy with Jewish sovereignty in the Old City of Jerusalem.

Then again, some who speak of international control imply not just the Old City of Jerusalem, but include Bethlehem an area of about a hundred square miles. Now, that is putting up another little state. Our poor little. country is already divided. The Jews and the Moslems each want their little share and then, in addition, there would be an 'International' Christian state. That's laying the ground for lots of trouble, which I sincerely hope we all will be spared.


City of God

According to an old tale, when the Ohr HaChaim came to Jerusalem from Morocco, two hundred years ago, the Baal Shem Tov told his brother-in-law, Rabbi Gershon Kitover, to go and meet him. When Reb Gershon came, he found that the Ohr HaChaim had just passed away. Among a number of letters he wrote from Jerusalem, I found a remarkable one in which he says, "I came to Jerusalem, took a walk through the city and recalled the prayer 'I will always remember and be amazed when I see every city on its own hill, built, and the city of God is humbled to the depths.' Instead of '... the City of God,' the prayer should have read ' ... the city of Jerusalem is humbled.' But, the change of expression teaches us that even if we build up Jerusalem so that it's as beautiful as any other great city, it means nothing. When the 'City of God' will no longer be disgraced, then we will have reached what we want to reach."

And how do you rebuild the City of God? By rebuilding its synagogues and houses of Torah study.









						Jerusalem Quartered by Rabbi Yakov Goldman O.B.M.
					





					ohr.edu


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## Sixties Fan

PA to Israelis: “You must leave, because you have no history in our Jerusalem, and it is not your homeland” 

Narrator: “O coward, you must leave because you have no history in our Jerusalem, and it is not your homeland” … 

Crowd: “With spirit, with blood, we will redeem you Al-Aqsa Mosque… Allahu Akbar (“Allah is greatest”)” [Official PA TV, June 30, 2022]

Contrary to what this Palestinian video claims, abundant archaeological evidence proves Jewish history in Jerusalem


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## Mindful

For the first time in my life, I was a Jew without community, in a land that was once filled with people like me.









						I Never Thought About Being Jewish Until I Left New York - Hey Alma
					

On the third day of my study abroad in Spain, I asked my host mother if she was headed to Mass. I was only trying to make conversation that Sunday morning, but she got excited, asking if I, too, attended Mass. Reluctantly, I realized something that I had planned to keep secret by omission would […]




					www.heyalma.com


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## Sixties Fan

We are pleased to report that CTV News Ottawa has *amended its online article* about an incident that took place at St. Francis Xavier High School in Gloucester, a suburb of Ottawa, where students walked out of class in support of the Palestinian people.

As we noted in *our original alert on May 20*,  the broadcaster allowed itself to be a platform for the dissemination of extreme anti-Israel disinformation, with students accusing Israel of carrying out a “genocide” of Palestinians.

The amended article now includes an editor’s note and additional context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, including that the Jewish people claim that the land of Israel is its ancestral homeland and an acknowledgment of Israel’s security concerns.

On July 7, BellMedia’s Director of News & Information Programming, Peter Angione, wrote the following to HonestReporting Canada (emphasis added):

“After reviewing this story again, we accept your point that taken in isolation, *this story lacked some additional context on the Israel-Palestine conflict.*

That said, in an effort to address your concern, we have updated an initial version of the story to include the following information:

Palestinians who live in Gaza and the West Bank say they are suffering because of Israeli actions.* Israel argues it’s only acting to protect itself and its citizens from Palestinian violence.* The United Nations considers Israeli’s control over the West Bank an occupation. *Israel claims the land based on historical and religious rights as the ancestral land of the Jewish people.”*

We thank CTV News for amending the story and for adding more context surrounding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to better inform its readers.











						SUCCESS: CTV Amends Article to Acknowledge Israel's Security Concerns and that Israel is Jewish People's Ancestral Homeland
					

We are pleased to report that CTV News Ottawa has amended its online article about an incident that took place




					honestreporting.ca


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## watchingfromafar

What sickens me the most is the Israeli government sniper teams shooting children. This in itself, is a war crime

*IDF shooting children*
https://tinyurl.com/yxetctr8

*Israel destroying Palestinian fishing boats*
https://tinyurl.com/mryr5v79

*illegal settlements*
https://tinyurl.com/yckn2wzh

*I was once a devoted believer in Israel and defended them whenever/wherever I could.
Now I am a bit confused, should I ignore the above or not?*
*You tell me
-*


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## watchingfromafar

Sixties Fan said:


> Israel claims the land based on historical and religious rights as the ancestral land of the Jewish people.”


_*Is the land of “Israel” their true ancient homeland?

Promised Land*
“Moses went up Mount Nebo to the top of Pisgah, looked over the *promised land of Israel* spread out before him, and died, at the age of one hundred and twenty, according to Talmudic legend on 7 Adar, his 120th birthday exactly. _

_Moab is the historical name for a mountainous strip of land in modern-day _*Jordan* _running along the eastern shore of the _*Dead Sea**.  *_In ancient times, it was home to the kingdom of the Moabites, a people often in conflict with their Israelite neighbors to the west._

_The Moabites were a historical people, whose existence is attested to by numerous archeological findings, most notably the __Mesha Stele__, which describes the Moabite victory over an unnamed son of __King_ _Omri__ of __Israel__. Their capital was _*Dibon**, *_located next to the modern Jordanian town of _*Dhiban**.*_”_
_http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Moab_

*From there they moved to Egypt*

(Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph commanded them to fill their sacks with corn, to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:

(Gen 45:20 KJV) *Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.*

(Gen 45:21 KJV) *And the children of Israel did so:* and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.

(Gen 47:1 KJV) *Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.*

(Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, *What is your occupation? *And they said unto Pharaoh, *Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.

Based on the above the “Promised Land” is not the land the Jews are occupying today*. In biblical verse terms, the Jews were nomads who were wonderers living off of the land grazing their sheep on the open plains.

Then the question that needs to be asked---

*Why do the Israelis call the land they live on today their ancestral land?
Waiting for an honest answer
-*


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## Toddsterpatriot

watchingfromafar said:


> What sickens me the most is the Israeli government sniper teams shooting children. This in itself, is a war crime
> 
> *IDF shooting children*
> https://tinyurl.com/yxetctr8
> 
> *Israel destroying Palestinian fishing boats*
> https://tinyurl.com/mryr5v79
> 
> *illegal settlements*
> https://tinyurl.com/yckn2wzh
> 
> *I was once a devoted believer in Israel and defended them whenever/wherever I could.
> Now I am a bit confused, should I ignore the above or not?*
> *You tell me
> -*



Liar


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## surada

abi said:


> There is no such thing as "Jewish land."
> 
> 
> It was almost entirely Muslim and Christian for the last 1000 years before the zionists came from another continent.
> 
> 
> NOT A NEWS SOURCE! That site is a blog and vomits out the zionist narrative that only the most blind will latch on to.
> 
> 
> It appears that the wall you worship at is actually the wall of a Roman fort. Indee even admitted this. He claimed this is known and has been for some time.
> 
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.
> 
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.
> 
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.
> 
> 
> This is what the zionists do and every time the world votes it is a landslide against your fascist leaders.
> 
> Right of return, end the occupation, free and fair elections, problem solved.



The Jewish minority was very small.






						Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


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## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> The Jewish minority was very small.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org



Not anymore.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Jewish minority was very small.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org


No matter what the number, the Jewish people are on their own ancestral homeland and have every right to sovereignty over any, if not all of it.  As all other Indigenous people around the world.

Learn to give a darn about the Jewish right to self determination ON their Ancient Homeland.  The right they have like any other Indigenous Peoples around the world.

It is better than going somewhere else, taking over someone else's homeland and then calling it one's own ancient one, when it is not, nor has it ever been.  Don't you agree?
--------

"The origin of being Indigenous is location and ties to the land," said Randall Akee, an associate professor of public policy and American Indian Studies at the University of California, Los Angeles.

So, the demand is simple: Give us the land back.

Their claims are rooted in the US government's dark history of removing indigenous people from their lands, whether through forced seizure or through treaties that promised them other lands or services.

(full article online)









						Indigenous people across the US want their land back -- and the movement is gaining momentum
					

Ultimately, it's about getting Indigenous lands back in Indigenous hands.




					www.cnn.com
				




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						Loading…
					





					scholarlycommons.law.case.edu
				




------------
New threats of globalization............................................................................................................................................. 16
Agriculture and food security...................................................................................................................................... 19Impoverishment of indigenous peoples .......................................................................................................................... 21 Living conditions of indigenous peoples in Australia, Canada New Zealand and the United States ............ 22 Poverty and land rights in Latin America................................................................................................................... 27 India: Poverty among the Scheduled Tribes ............................................................................................................. 29 On the status of and trends in the practice of traditional occupations ............................................................... 29 Arctic region, including Russia and Northern Europe............................................................................................. 32 Forest Peoples of Africa ............................................................................................................................................... 34 East and South East Asia: Rice culture in Ifugao, Philippines .............................................................................. 36 Pacific: Traditional fishing in Vanuatu.

(full article online)





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					www.un.org


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> No matter what the number, the Jewish people are on their own ancestral homeland and have every right to sovereignty over any, if not all of it.  As all other Indigenous people around the world.
> 
> Learn to give a darn about the Jewish right to self determination ON their Ancient Homeland.  The right they have like any other Indigenous Peoples around the world.
> 
> It is better than going somewhere else, taking over someone else's homeland and then calling it one's own ancient one, when it is not, nor has it ever been.  Don't you agree?
> --------
> 
> "The origin of being Indigenous is location and ties to the land," said Randall Akee, an associate professor of public policy and American Indian Studies at the University of California, Los Angeles.
> 
> So, the demand is simple: Give us the land back.
> 
> Their claims are rooted in the US government's dark history of removing indigenous people from their lands, whether through forced seizure or through treaties that promised them other lands or services.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indigenous people across the US want their land back -- and the movement is gaining momentum
> 
> 
> Ultimately, it's about getting Indigenous lands back in Indigenous hands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
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> 
> scholarlycommons.law.case.edu
> 
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> 
> ------------
> New threats of globalization............................................................................................................................................. 16
> Agriculture and food security...................................................................................................................................... 19Impoverishment of indigenous peoples .......................................................................................................................... 21 Living conditions of indigenous peoples in Australia, Canada New Zealand and the United States ............ 22 Poverty and land rights in Latin America................................................................................................................... 27 India: Poverty among the Scheduled Tribes ............................................................................................................. 29 On the status of and trends in the practice of traditional occupations ............................................................... 29 Arctic region, including Russia and Northern Europe............................................................................................. 32 Forest Peoples of Africa ............................................................................................................................................... 34 East and South East Asia: Rice culture in Ifugao, Philippines .............................................................................. 36 Pacific: Traditional fishing in Vanuatu.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
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> __
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> Loading…
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> www.un.org



What we did to native Americans is shameful. That's why the international community doesn't allow that anymore. You can't colonize occupied territory. That's why we chased Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait.

Arabs have been there since the Akkadian empire.


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## watchingfromafar

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Liar


Liar, liar, pants on fire
-


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> What we did to native Americans is shameful. That's why the international community doesn't allow that anymore. You can't colonize occupied territory. That's why we chased Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait.
> 
> Arabs have been there since the Akkadian empire.


And Jews have been there since before the Akkadians, who were not Arabs.

Stop making a fool of yourself.

Start putting a stop to the vile education which is given to the population in Gaza and the PA which leads to too many of that population turning into murderers.  It does not happen anywhere else on the planet.

Even Saudi Arabia is removing the vile lies about Jews from their book, and media.

When are you going to put any of your energy towards putting an end to teaching anyone to kill another people because they are not of the same religion as theirs?


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## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> What we did to native Americans is shameful. That's why the international community doesn't allow that anymore. You can't colonize occupied territory. That's why we chased Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait.
> 
> Arabs have been there since the Akkadian empire.



How long have muslims been there?


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## Sixties Fan

This is the transcript of an address he made at the House of Lords on March 28, 1994:




> My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Mayhew, says that the views of the noble Lord, Lord Haskel _[that Israeli settlements do not violate Article 49 of the Geneva Conventions],_ are not widely shared. Listening to the noble Lord, Lord Mayhew, it is clear that his views are widely shared by those who have an aversion to the state of Israel. For many years he has demonstrated his views on that matter. I applaud what was said by the noble Lord, Lord Haskel. I thought his contribution important.
> 
> However, I am somewhat anxious about the way in which the debate is going. I understand that the Question before the House is: "whether the Jewish settlements in the Occupied Territories violate Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention". In anticipation of my noble friend Lord Gilmour giving the reasons why he was asking the Question, I obtained a copy of the Convention for the Protection of War Victims. I assume that my noble friend is referring to the last paragraph of Article 49. It states: The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies". That is the end of the article. It begins by dealing with individual or mass forcible transfers as well as the deportation of protected persons from occupied territories. It was put into the convention at the end of the war as a result of the dreadful activities of the Nazi administration, in particular the mass transfer of population in order to get rid of people regarded as being unacceptable; in name, the Jews. They were taken to be liquidated from one country to another and were moved from one place to another. That is why we have Article 49 in the convention.
> 
> I remind the House of Article 2. It states that, "the present convention shall apply to … armed conflict which may arise between two or more of the High Contracting Parties". The convention applies, to all cases of partial or total occupation of the territory of a High Contracting Party. I therefore ask the House to consider this question: *which is the high contracting party whose territory is occupied*? In other words, which state has sovereign title to the West Bank?
> 
> In 1967 Jordan was in occupation. It is generally accepted that after its annexation of the territories, Jordan had no sovereignty in international law. Its presence in Judaea and Samaria was only given _de jure _recognition by two countries out of the whole international community. Therefore, if one is dealing with points of law, as my noble friend's Question seeks, it seems clear that the West Bank, at present occupied by Israel, does not belong to any other state, and the convention therefore does not apply. The answer to the first and dominant part of my noble friend's Question is therefore no.
> 
> I shall raise another matter if I have time. The last legal sovereignty over the territories was that of the League of Nations mandate of 1922. It can be argued that its provisions still hold legal weight. The mandate stipulated that the area was to be part of the Jewish homeland, and that Jewish settlement there was to be encouraged.
> 
> I have referred the House to those two matters, namely, the effect of Article 2 and the mandate, to indicate how ridiculous it is even to contemplate that major national and ethnic issues can ever be solved by raising legal points.



That last paragraph seems to me that he is not so much saying that he is making a legal argument as saying that legal arguments are irrelevant since anyone can interpret them as they wish, and the only solution is political.

(full article online)










						Defending Israel's claim to Judea and Samaria in the House of Lords, 1994
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## surada

Toddsterpatriot said:


> How long have muslims been there?



I don't remember the date for the treaty of Omar. But Abraham had seven sons by Hagar the Egyptian and Keturah the Arab long before Islam.


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> I don't remember the date for the treaty of Omar. But Abraham had seven sons by Hagar the Egyptian and Keturah the Arab long before Islam.


STOP !!!!  Lying about Jewish history is not allowed.  

You are on your way to protest the vile curriculum Palestinians are subjected to in their textbooks and media, right?


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> And Jews have been there since before the Akkadians, who were not Arabs.
> 
> Stop making a fool of yourself.
> 
> Start putting a stop to the vile education which is given to the population in Gaza and the PA which leads to too many of that population turning into murderers.  It does not happen anywhere else on the planet.
> 
> Even Saudi Arabia is removing the vile lies about Jews from their book, and media.
> 
> When are you going to put any of your energy towards putting an end to teaching anyone to kill another people because they are not of the same religion as theirs?



The Akkadians were Arabs from the Arabian peninsula. Lol. The Saudis don't have vile lies in their books. You sure think you're the center of the universe.


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## Sixties Fan

I created these in April but cannot find that I posted them, so here is a series of graphics showing that Zionism is an integral part of Judaism.


























						Jews have always been Zionist (posters)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> The Akkadians were Arabs from the Arabian peninsula. Lol. The Saudis don't have vile lies in their books. You sure think you're the center of the universe.


According to fools like yourself,    YES.....We are the center of the Universe!!!!!!

But only to fools like yourself.

When was the last time you checked a Saudi textbook?
-------------------


According to the institute, Qur’an verses describing Jews being turned into monkeys were removed, as was the antisemitic myth that one of the goals of Zionism is a “global Jewish government.”

Saudi students are falsely taught that  “Zionists” deliberately tried to burn down Al-Aqsa Mosque in 1969, a lie that was removed from Qatar's curriculum. A Qur'an verse comparing Jews to "book-carrying donkeys" also remains, while students are taught that women are to blame for male sexual harassment.

(full article online)









						Antisemitism largely eliminated from textbooks in Saudi Arabia - report
					

Saudi Arabia has seen a trend of improvement in removing antisemitism from its curriculum in recent years.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Thunderbird

Sixties Fan said:


> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?


Jewish land?

Then give it back to the Palestinians. The European colonists ethnically cleansed the descendants of the Hebrews and stole that land.









						Israeli Historian: Palestinians Are Biological Descendants of Bible’s Jews
					

Two new articles deal with political/genetic controversies over the origins of "the Jewish people" (of whom I consider myself a part for one tribal reason or another). Here is Israeli historian…




					mondoweiss.net
				












						Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European
					

Ashkenazi Jewish can largely trace their maternal heritage to Europe, new research finds. That contradicts earlier studies suggesting that most Ashkenazi heritage traces to the Near East.




					www.livescience.com
				












						An Interview with Benny Morris
					

Survival of the Fittest?




					www.counterpunch.org


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> I don't remember the date for the treaty of Omar. But Abraham had seven sons by Hagar the Egyptian and Keturah the Arab long before Islam.



Hagar wasn't muslim.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Thunderbird said:


> Jewish land?
> 
> Then give it back to the Palestinians. The European colonists ethnically cleansed the descendants of the Hebrews and stole that land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli Historian: Palestinians Are Biological Descendants of Bible’s Jews
> 
> 
> Two new articles deal with political/genetic controversies over the origins of "the Jewish people" (of whom I consider myself a part for one tribal reason or another). Here is Israeli historian…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mondoweiss.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European
> 
> 
> Ashkenazi Jewish can largely trace their maternal heritage to Europe, new research finds. That contradicts earlier studies suggesting that most Ashkenazi heritage traces to the Near East.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.livescience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An Interview with Benny Morris
> 
> 
> Survival of the Fittest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.counterpunch.org


You destroyed Jewish History in one post.  Fascinating.

You give back the land of the Indigenous people on whose land you live on first.  Then the Jews will think about becoming suicidal and "giving" the land back to the colonizing Arabs who call themselves Palestinians.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

For those of you who have been following me (@israel_shield) on Twitter, you know that I spend a good part of my time battling and destroying anti-Israel propaganda and lies and this Palestine issue is at the top of my list. I know an area called Palestine existed; the Romans coined that name when they occupied Israel from the Jews long before Islam ever existed.

*NEVER WAS PALESTINE AN ARAB COUNTRY AND NEVER WAS IT OCCUPIED FROM PALESTINIAN ARABS*

Modern day Palestine was a geographical area that included what is today Jordan and was governed by the British Mandate. Palestine was NEVER an Arab State, country or national home for a people who call themselves Palestinians. A Palestinian nation is a farce, a bluff and a blatant lie. There was no such thing as a Palestinian nation and all the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians are actually Arabs from surrounding countries. This is not just my opinion, this is what their own leaders say loud and clear!



Read Also – The REAL History Of Palestine  *ISRAEL*

_5 Palestinian Artifacts That Prove Palestine Never Existed_

1. The Palestine Pound and Currency The Palestine Pound was the currency used by the British Mandate from 1927 – 1948. Arabs and especially Palestinians have absolutely nothing to do with this bill. Take a closer look at that bill. 

1. The Palestine Currency Board was not Arab. In August 1948, new banknotes were issued by the Anglo Palestine Company which was owned by the Jewish Agency. 

2. See the Hebrew writing there? E.Y. stands for Eretz Yisrael which in plain English means Land Of Israel! 

3. Once again Hebrew writing on this bill proves this was NOT an Arab printed bill. Till today, Israeli currency has on it Hebrew, Arabic and English writing. These Palestinian BRITISH coins are sometimes used as well to try to prove the Palestine lie to be true. Once again, the coin was not minted by Arabs and what is written on the coin proves just how far Palestine was from being an Arab country.

(full article online)



			https://www.jewishpress.com/blogs/israel-shield/5-palestinian-artifacts-from-before-israel-that-prove-palestine-never-existed/2014/09/30/


----------



## Mindful

In his address, the president emphasised the importance of remembering the Jewish lives lost during the Holocaust, before confusing the words “honour” and “horror”.









						Biden makes ‘absolute clanger’ in Holocaust speech
					

The United States is led by a president in obvious decline as Joe Biden made an "absolute clanger" in Israel during a speech on the Holocaust, Sky News host Andrew Bolt says.  Mr Biden spoke at an arrival ceremony in Tel Aviv on his first trip to the Middle East since taking office.  In his...




					www.skynews.com.au


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mindful said:


> In his address, the president emphasised the importance of remembering the Jewish lives lost during the Holocaust, before confusing the words “honour” and “horror”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biden makes ‘absolute clanger’ in Holocaust speech
> 
> 
> The United States is led by a president in obvious decline as Joe Biden made an "absolute clanger" in Israel during a speech on the Holocaust, Sky News host Andrew Bolt says.  Mr Biden spoke at an arrival ceremony in Tel Aviv on his first trip to the Middle East since taking office.  In his...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.skynews.com.au


He misread and quickly corrected it.  Not a decline issue.  Not the thread for this article, either.  It belongs in "All News" or a new thread, which already got started in this forum. Please post in correct thread.

No Jewish History is being destroyed with what happened in this article.


----------



## surada

Thunderbird said:


> Jewish land?
> 
> Then give it back to the Palestinians. The European colonists ethnically cleansed the descendants of the Hebrews and stole that land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli Historian: Palestinians Are Biological Descendants of Bible’s Jews
> 
> 
> Two new articles deal with political/genetic controversies over the origins of "the Jewish people" (of whom I consider myself a part for one tribal reason or another). Here is Israeli historian…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mondoweiss.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European
> 
> 
> Ashkenazi Jewish can largely trace their maternal heritage to Europe, new research finds. That contradicts earlier studies suggesting that most Ashkenazi heritage traces to the Near East.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.livescience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An Interview with Benny Morris
> 
> 
> Survival of the Fittest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.counterpunch.org



Benny Morris .. I read his first book. The Jews didn't go back and punish the Germans. They just abused the Palestinians.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?


The Balfour Declaration gave Jews some of the land back with the following caviat, that they may have the land provided they did not compromise the inalienable rights of the existing non-Jewish population.  Jewish terrorist groups like Irgun, were in breach of said Declaration.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Benny Morris .. I read his first book. The Jews didn't go back and punish the Germans. They just abused the Palestinians.


Will you please stop abusing History and the Jews with it  !!!!


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Will you please stop abusing History and the Jews with it  !!!!



You made your own history in Palestine.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> You made your own history in Palestine.


Yes, for over 3000 years, as history has shown it.
It is the Jewish Homeland, oh fabler of Palestinian history.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Yes, for over 3000 years, as history has shown it.
> It is the Jewish Homeland, oh fabler of Palestinian history.



By the birth of Christ more Jews lived outside Palestine. Large Jewish communities in Alexandria, Damascus, Aleppo, Baghdad, Elephantine island, Persia and Rome... And all around the Mediterranean sea.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> By the birth of Christ more Jews lived outside Palestine. Large Jewish communities in Alexandria, Damascus, Aleppo, Baghdad, Elephantine island, Persia and Rome... And all around the Mediterranean sea.


STOOOOOOP with your phony giving the land to a people who are not indigenous of the place.

Arabs migrated all over the world. 
The English migrated all over the world.
The Spanish migrated all over the world.
The Greek migrated all over the world.


It does not give ONE of these people the right to call themselves INDIGENOUS to anywhere else but the place they originated from.

Jews originated from Ancient Canaan.  It will always be their Homeland, you like it or not.
They created a Nation called Israel, which is reported and written about by EVERY people who invaded the area.  And that includes the Muslim Arabs who invaded in the 7th century CE.


Your endless attempts to diminish and actually make the Jews  POOF !, disappear from existence or to make their rights to their ancient homeland less important or non existent is an assault on EVERY Indigenous people on the planet who continue to have their homeland stolen by people who are about taking away their rights to their sovereignty and their lands, and their right to live on it.


NO MATTER what the number of Jews on the land since the destruction of the second temple, the land continue to belong to the JEWS.

Just ask the QURAN.  It is written there.  The land belongs to the Children of Israel .


Take a really WILD guess as to what people/nation the Quran was talking about.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> STOOOOOOP with your phony giving the land to a people who are not indigenous of the place.
> 
> Arabs migrated all over the world.
> The English migrated all over the world.
> The Spanish migrated all over the world.
> The Greek migrated all over the world.
> 
> 
> It does not give ONE of these people the right to call themselves INDIGENOUS to anywhere else but the place they originated from.
> 
> Jews originated from Ancient Canaan.  It will always be their Homeland, you like it or not.
> They created a Nation called Israel, which is reported and written about by EVERY people who invaded the area.  And that includes the Muslim Arabs who invaded in the 7th century CE.
> 
> 
> Your endless attempts to diminish and actually make the Jews  POOF !, disappear from existence or to make their rights to their ancient homeland less important or non existent is an assault on EVERY Indigenous people on the planet who continue to have their homeland stolen by people who are about taking away their rights to their sovereignty and their lands, and their right to live on it.
> 
> 
> NO MATTER what the number of Jews on the land since the destruction of the second temple, the land continue to belong to the JEWS.
> 
> Just ask the QURAN.  It is written there.  The land belongs to the Children of Israel .
> 
> 
> Take a really WILD guess as to what people/nation the Quran was talking about.



Why did they stay away for 2000 years?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Why did they stay away for 2000 years?


You really do not see how sick you are.  How, is it as someone with a Christian background, insists that Jews do not have the right to their ancient homeland.

One catch phrase after another, one nonsense after another.

Anything but respect for Jews and Judaism, and the RIGHT the Jews have like any other indigenous people to have sovereignty over their ancient homeland.

What Christian background makes you insist that Jews have no rights to their ancient homeland?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Part 1

Delegitimization​
Israel’s Jewish citizens are considered foreign colonialists: “We will think and discuss: I will compare the tragedy of the Indians, America’s original inhabitants, to the tragedy of the Palestinian people.” (Social Studies, 2020, Grade 8, Part 2, p. 34)
The country’s Jewish history is denied, including the existence of archaeological items proving that “the conqueror has built for himself an artificial entity that derives its identity and the legitimacy of its existence from tales, legends and fantasies and has tried in various ways and means to create live material evidence for these legends, or archaeological architectural proofs that would determine their truth and authenticity, but in vain.” (Arabic Language, 2020, Grade 10, p. 68)
Existence of Jewish holy places in the country is denied, including the Western Wall. “The Al-Buraq Wall has been named after Al-Buraq [the divine beast] that carried the Messenger [of God, i.e., Muhammad] during the Nocturnal Journey [from Mecca to Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, according to Islamic belief] and the Ascension [to Heaven]. The Al-Buraq Wall is part of the western wall of Al-Aqsa Mosque. Al-Aqsa Mosque, including the wall, is Palestinian land and an exclusive right of the Muslims.” (Islamic Education, 2020, Grade 5, Part 1, p. 63)
Having been considered foreign settlers, Jews in the country are not counted as legitimate inhabitants, and the cities they built, including Tel Aviv, are absent from maps in the textbooks used in PA schools. One PA school map, titled “Map of Palestine,” does not show any Jewish city, except Eilat, which appears under its Arabic name, “Umm al-Rashrash.” (Social Studies, 2020, Grade 6, Part 1, p. 6)
Jews’ historical and religious ties to Jerusalem are ignored. According to PA textbooks, Jerusalem was built by the Palestinians’ Arab ancestors (i.e., the “Arabized” Canaanites and Jebusites): “Jerusalem is an Arab city built by our Arab ancestors thousands of years ago. Jerusalem is holy only to Muslims and Christians.” (National and Social Upbringing, 2020, Grade 3, Part 1, p. 29)
A short historical description of the city’s names features a huge gap of 1,000 years between the Jebusites and the Romans, that is, the Jewish historical period. The name “Jerusalem,” with its various forms used in hundreds of languages around the world, is completely absent: “The city of Jerusalem was known as ‘Jebus’ after the Arab Jebusites who built it 5,000 years ago. When the Romans occupied it they named it ‘Aelia.’ Later on it came to be known as ‘Al-Quds’ or ‘Bayt al-Maqdis’, after the Muslims had conquered it at the hands of Caliph Umar ibn al-Khattab in 637 CE.” (Geography and Modern and Contemporary History of Palestine, 2020, Grade 10, Part 1, p. 43)











						A look at what Palestinian Authority schools teach about Jews, Israel
					

The three fundamentals are delegitimizing Israel's existence and the presence of Jews, demonizing Israel and Jews, and inciting against Israel and Jews.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Part 2

Demonization​
Jews, sometimes referred to as “Zionists,” are accused of harboring genocidal intentions toward the Palestinians: “The Zionists have established their entity upon terror, extermination and colonialism. We will explain that.” (Arab Language – Academic Path, 2020, Grade 10, Part 2, p. 28)
Jews are demonized as infidels and as the Devil’s aides, as shown in a verse taken from a poem: “Where are the horsemen [who will ride] to Al-Aqsa to liberate it from the grip of infidelity, from the Devil’s aides?” (Arabic Language, 2020, Grade 7, Part 1, p. 67)
The Jews are also demonized outside the context of the war, as enemies of Prophet Muhammad and Islam in its early years. They are given negative traits such as treachery and hostility, which makes them eternal enemies of Muslims today: “But the Jews [in Medina] did not respect the treaty [they had made with Muhammad] and resorted to all types of treachery, betrayal and aggression which forced the Muslims to fight them.” (Islamic Education, 2020, Grade 7, Part 1, p. 52)



> *“Our Palestinian history is replete with many names of martyrs who sacrificed their souls for the homeland, among whom is the martyr Dalal al-Mughrabi, who painted with her struggle a picture of challenge and bravery that has made her memory eternal within our hearts and minds. The text before us shows her struggle and journey.”*
> Arabic Language, 2020, Grade 5, Part 2, p. 51












						A look at what Palestinian Authority schools teach about Jews, Israel
					

The three fundamentals are delegitimizing Israel's existence and the presence of Jews, demonizing Israel and Jews, and inciting against Israel and Jews.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan, I am sure you are a good person, however, your claim that this is a Jewish-only area, is non-sense.  Palestian-Jews and Palestinan-Arabs have inhabited that land since the Isrealites.  And at best, Jews owned 30% of that land!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan, I am sure you are a good person, however, your claim that this is a Jewish-only area, is non-sense.  Palestian-Jews and Palestinan-Arabs have inhabited that land since the Isrealites.  And at best, Jews owned 30% of that land!



*And at best, Jews owned 30% of that land!*

That's a lot more than the Arabs owned.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan, I am sure you are a good person, however, your claim that this is a Jewish-only area, is non-sense.  Palestian-Jews and Palestinan-Arabs have inhabited that land since the Isrealites.  And at best, Jews owned 30% of that land!


Billo, It was never Palestine when the Israelites had their Monarchy there, 3000 years ago.  It was Israel.  And then, Judea.  And there were definitely no big number of Arabs, much less Arab nations who called themselves Palestinians.

You are claiming that it is a Jewish only area.  The reality is that IT IS the Ancient homeland of the Jews, and NOT of the Arabs, Palestinians or by any other name.

The Greek, Assyrians, Babylonians, Romans, Byzantine, Muslims, Crusaders, Ottoman, British, they all attest to the fact that it was the Ancient homeland of the Jewish People/Nation and that the Jews would have every right to regain sovereignty over that land if they could.

Just like any other indigenous people of any other place on the planet.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> You really do not see how sick you are.  How, is it as someone with a Christian background, insists that Jews do not have the right to their ancient homeland.
> 
> One catch phrase after another, one nonsense after another.
> 
> Anything but respect for Jews and Judaism, and the RIGHT the Jews have like any other indigenous people to have sovereignty over their ancient homeland.
> 
> What Christian background makes you insist that Jews have no rights to their ancient homeland?



Jewish nationalism is real.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Jewish nationalism is real.


Jewish rights to their ancient homeland is real.


----------



## Sixties Fan

We are pleased to report that CTV News Ottawa has *amended its online article* about an incident that took place at St. Francis Xavier High School in Gloucester, a suburb of Ottawa, where students walked out of class in support of the Palestinian people.

As we noted in *our original alert on May 20*,  the broadcaster allowed itself to be a platform for the dissemination of extreme anti-Israel disinformation, with students accusing Israel of carrying out a “genocide” of Palestinians.

The amended article now includes an editor’s note and additional context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, including that the Jewish people claim that the land of Israel is its ancestral homeland and an acknowledgment of Israel’s security concerns.

On July 7, BellMedia’s Director of News & Information Programming, Peter Angione, wrote the following to HonestReporting Canada (emphasis added):

“After reviewing this story again, we accept your point that taken in isolation, *this story lacked some additional context on the Israel-Palestine conflict.*

That said, in an effort to address your concern, we have updated an initial version of the story to include the following information:

Palestinians who live in Gaza and the West Bank say they are suffering because of Israeli actions.* Israel argues it’s only acting to protect itself and its citizens from Palestinian violence.* The United Nations considers Israeli’s control over the West Bank an occupation. *Israel claims the land based on historical and religious rights as the ancestral land of the Jewish people.”*

We thank CTV News for amending the story and for adding more context surrounding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to better inform its readers.











						SUCCESS: CTV Amends Article to Acknowledge Israel's Security Concerns and that Israel is Jewish People's Ancestral Homeland
					

We are pleased to report that CTV News Ottawa has amended its online article about an incident that took place




					honestreporting.ca


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> Jewish nationalism is real.



Yup.
Kicking pan-Arabists in the ass for more than 70 years now.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Jewish rights to their ancient homeland is real.











						Demographics of Historic Palestine prior to 1948
					






					www.cjpme.org


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> Demographics of Historic Palestine prior to 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cjpme.org



What are their demographics now?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Demographics of Historic Palestine prior to 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cjpme.org


Let us see you play the demographics game with all the other Indigenous people in the world.

Go ahead !!!!


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Billo, It was never Palestine when the Israelites had their Monarchy there, 3000 years ago.  It was Israel.  And then, Judea.  And there were definitely no big number of Arabs, much less Arab nations who called themselves Palestinians.
> 
> You are claiming that it is a Jewish only area.  The reality is that IT IS the Ancient homeland of the Jews, and NOT of the Arabs, Palestinians or by any other name.
> 
> The Greek, Assyrians, Babylonians, Romans, Byzantine, Muslims, Crusaders, Ottoman, British, they all attest to the fact that it was the Ancient homeland of the Jewish People/Nation and that the Jews would have every right to regain sovereignty over that land if they could.
> 
> Just like any other indigenous people of any other place on the planet.


Palestinian"s are the direct decendents of the Isrealites.


----------



## Billo_Really

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *And at best, Jews owned 30% of that land!*
> 
> That's a lot more than the Arabs owned.


Wrong! Arab's owned 70%.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Billo_Really said:


> Wrong! Arab's owned 70%.



Can you show proof?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Here is a new one.   World class inventors of incitement against Jews.  One lie sounds better than the next for ignorant people ]


----------



## Billo_Really

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Can you show proof?


I already did. And you know I did.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Billo_Really said:


> I already did. And you know I did.



On this thread?


----------



## Sixties Fan

In July 1948, the Arab Higher Committee for Palestine submitted a memorandum to the United Nations titled "Jewish Atrocities in the Holy Land." It is a hate-filled piece of antisemitic propaganda filled with the most obscene lies about the Jews of Palestine.






This example of pure antisemitism is still available in the UN archives online.

It was turned into a pamphlet to be distributed widely, and a copy of that can be seen at the Library of Congress.

The Arab League Information Bureau in Cairo issued an updated version in March 1949, which is now available in the online Palestinian Museum Archive, naturally.

Here are excerpts from the 1949 version, which leaves no doubt as to the pure Jew-hatred of these documents.

They start off with Holocaust inversion and Jewish media control:


> The world has only just been shocked by the disgusting revelations of the horrible, sadistic cruelties practised by the Nazis in the infamous camps of Belsen and Dachau. In these instances, a great number of the victims were Jews; and their more fortunate compatriots saw to it that their sufferings were made known all over the world. Their* powerful and far-reaching* *propaganda machine* enlisted the sympathies of every decent man and woman on behalf of the “poor, downtrodden Jew.”
> 
> Now we have once more to hear the horrible tale of sadistic cruelties and wanton brutalities perpetrated against an innocent population, mainly composed of women, children and old men. But* this time the aggressors are those very Jews who were lately so loud in their outcry against the Nazis.*



After elaborating on how depraved the Jews are, we are told that the Arabs had welcomed them with open arms as they fled pogroms:


> ...The Zionists are actively and savagely oppressing an innocent people and are actually rendering hundreds of thousands of harmless and peaceful human beings homeless wanderers. This is a poor way of showing gratitude for the sympathy so lately shown to Jewish sufferings in Nazi Germany and *to those who gave them shelter and abode !*


After some Biblical quotes on how Jews wantonly and thoroughly destroy their enemies, the pamphlet goes on to say that this is especially bad because the Jews are rich and cultured:


> When reading of these atrocious acts, one unconsciously thinks of their perpetrators as being untaught savages, or barbarians of the remote past. Yet these same Jews have for centuries, *by virtue of their moncy-massing activities,* gathered to themselves the cream of culture and refinement of whatever country they have settled in. The.wealthy, educated Jew, surrounded by *all the culture and art that his riches can command,* has been a long familiar figure in civilized society. How superficial that veneer of culture really is, is shockingly revealed in the following pages....



Then comes example after example of completely fictional stories of Jewish atrocities. For example, we are told that Jewish doctors  stole the blood of Arabs. 


> At Haifa and Jaffa, Arab men were captured and forcibly bled in order to provide blood for the treatment of Jewish wounded. These unfortunate victims were not only bled beyond their strength, but were neglected by the Jewish doctors and nurses, who left them in such a dangerous state of weakness that only the strongest could possibly survive.


The Deir Yassin section goes into lurid detail - and it sounds almost exactly like what the Jews in Hebron suffered in 1929. Just that was true.




> On April 10, 1948, the village of Deir Yasin, in the suburbs of Jerusalem, was attacked by the Zionists, who rounded up most of its 600 inhabitants. Having looted everything of value in the village, the Zionists next turned their attention to their human booty, slaughtering men, women and children without mercy. On this occasion, about 250 Arabs were butchered. Among these were *25 pregnant women, whose bodies were deliberately ripped open with bayonets*, and fifty-two mothers with babies at the breast, as well as about sixty other women and young girls. *Little children were cut to pieces under the eyes of their mothers*. Some of the unfortunate Arab women and girls were captured, stripped of all their clothing, and herded into open trucks.* They were then paraded through the streets of the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem, where they were subjected to the insults of the populace, and were forced to submit to being photographed stark naked*.


The pamphlet goes on to accuse the Jews of waging biological warfare, and being behind cholera epidemics in Egypt and Transjordan. 

The propaganda is clearly written towards a Christian audience. The pamphlets emphasize how Jews supposedly attacked Christian holy places and killed members of the clergy, and even more disgustingly claimed that Arabs had treated Jewish holy places with utmost respect. (50 synagogues were destroyed in Jerusalem alone.)

Today's Palestinian propaganda is very similar, just they are more careful in English to say "Zionists" rather than "Jews."  But anyone who claims that the underlying antisemitism is not the same is fooling themselves.











						The Arab Higher Commission's disgusting antisemitic propaganda of 1948-49
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

Part 1

I am a forgotten Jew.

My roots are nearly 2,600 years old, my ancestors made landmark contributions from North Africa to the Fertile Crescent — but I barely exist today. You see, I am a Jew from the Arab world. No, that’s not entirely accurate. I’ve fallen into a semantic trap. I predated the Arab conquest in just about every country in which I lived. When Arab invaders conquered North Africa, for example, I had already been present there for more than six centuries.

Today, you cannot find a trace of me in most of this vast region.

Try seeking me out in Iraq.

Remember the Babylonian exile from ancient Judea, following the destruction of the First Temple in 586 BCE? Remember the vibrant Jewish community that emerged there and produced the Babylonian Talmud?

Do you know that in the ninth century, under Muslim rule, we Jews in Iraq were forced to wear a distinctive yellow patch on our clothing — a precursor of the infamous Nazi yellow badge — and faced other discriminatory measures? Or that in the eleventh and fourteenth centuries, we faced onerous taxes, the destruction of several synagogues, and severe repression?

And I wonder if you have ever heard of the Farhud, the breakdown of law and order, in Baghdad in June 1941. As an American Jewish Committee (AJC) specialist, Dr. George Gruen, reported:

“In a spasm of uncontrolled violence, between 170 and 180 Jews were killed, more than 900 were wounded, and 14,500 Jews sustained material losses through the looting or destruction of their stores and homes. Although the government eventually restored order… Jews were squeezed out of government employment, limited in schools, and subjected to imprisonment, heavy fines, or sequestration of their property on the flimsiest of charges of being connected to either or both of the two banned movements. Indeed, Communism and Zionism were frequently equated in the statutes. In Iraq, the mere receipt of a letter from a Jew in Palestine [pre-1948] was sufficient to bring about arrest and loss of property.”

At our peak, we were 135,000 Jews in 1948, and we were a vitally important factor in virtually every aspect of Iraqi society. To illustrate our role, here is what the Encyclopedia Judaica wrote about Iraqi Jewry: “During the 20th century, Jewish intellectuals, authors, and poets made an important contribution to the Arabic language and literature by writing books and numerous essays.”

By 1950, other Iraqi Jews and I were faced with the revocation of citizenship, seizure of assets, and, most ominously, public hangings. A year earlier, Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Sa’id had told the British ambassador in Amman of a plan to expel the entire Jewish community and place us at Jordan’s doorstep. The ambassador later recounted the episode in a memoir entitled From the Wings: Amman Memoirs, 1947-1951.

Miraculously, in 1951, about 100,000 of us got out, thanks to the extraordinary help of Israel, but with little more than the clothes on our backs. The Israelis dubbed the rescue Operation Ezra and Nehemiah.

Those of us who stayed lived in perpetual fear — fear of violence and more public hangings, as occurred on January 27, 1969, when nine Jews were hanged in the center of Baghdad on trumped-up charges, while hundreds of thousands of Iraqis wildly cheered the executions. The rest of us got out one way or another, including friends of mine who found safety in Iran when it was ruled by the Shah.

Now there are no Jews left to speak of, nor are there even monuments, museums, or other visible reminders of our presence on Iraqi soil for 26 centuries.












						David Harris republishes 'I am a Forgotten Jew' • Point of No Return
					

Fifty-five years ago last week, David Harris’s wife, Giulietta, then 16 years old, together with her parents and seven siblings, fled their native Libya. At the time, some Jews were murdered in pogroms, while others hid until they could get safe passage out of the country, never to return...




					www.jewishrefugees.org.uk


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## Sixties Fan

Part 2

2,600 years are erased, wiped out, as if they never happened. Can you put yourself in my shoes and feel the excruciating pain of loss and invisibility?

I am a forgotten Jew.

I was first settled in what is present-day Libya by the Egyptian ruler Ptolemy Lagos (323-282 BCE), according to the first-century Jewish historian Josephus. My forefathers and foremothers lived continuously on this soil for more than two millennia, our numbers bolstered by Berbers who converted to Judaism, Spanish and Portuguese Jews fleeing the Inquisition, and Italian Jews crossing the Mediterranean.

I was confronted with the anti-Jewish legislation of the occupying Italian Fascists. I endured the incarceration of 2,600 fellow Jews in an Axis-run camp in 1942. I survived the deportation of 200 fellow Jews to Italy the same year. I coped with forced labor in Libya during the war. I witnessed local rioting in 1945 and 1948 that left nearly 150 Libyan Jews dead, hundreds injured, and thousands homeless.

I watched with uncertainty as Libya became an independent country in 1951. I wondered what would happen to those 6,000 of us still there, the remnant of the 39,000 Jews who had formed this once-proud community — that is, until the rioting sent people packing, many headed for the newly-established State of Israel.

The good news was that there were constitutional protections for minority groups in the embryonic Libyan nation. The bad news was that they were completely ignored.

Within 10 years of my native country’s independence, I could not vote, hold public office, serve in the army, obtain a passport, purchase new property, acquire majority ownership in any new business, or even participate in the supervision of our community’s affairs.

By June 1967, the die was cast. Those of us who had remained, hoping against hope that things would improve in a land to which we were deeply attached and which, at times, had been good to us, had no choice but to flee. The Six-Day War created an explosive atmosphere in the streets. Eighteen Jews were killed, and Jewish-owned homes and shops were burned to the ground.

I and 4,000 other Jews left however we could, most of us with no more than a suitcase and the equivalent of a few dollars.

I was never allowed to return. I never recovered the assets I had left behind in Libya, despite promises by the government. In effect, it was all stolen — the homes, furniture, shops, communal institutions, you name it. Still worse, I was never able to visit the grave sites of my relatives. That hurt especially deeply. In fact, I was told that, under Colonel Muammar Qaddhafi, who seized power in 1969, the Jewish cemeteries were bulldozed and the headstones used for road building.










						David Harris republishes 'I am a Forgotten Jew' • Point of No Return
					

Fifty-five years ago last week, David Harris’s wife, Giulietta, then 16 years old, together with her parents and seven siblings, fled their native Libya. At the time, some Jews were murdered in pogroms, while others hid until they could get safe passage out of the country, never to return...




					www.jewishrefugees.org.uk


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## Sixties Fan

Part 3

I am a forgotten Jew.

My experience — the good and the bad — lives on in my memory, and I’ll do my best to transmit it to my children and grandchildren, but how much can they absorb? How much can they identify with a culture that seems like a relic of a past that appears increasingly remote and intangible? True, a few books and articles on my history have been written, but — and here I’m being generous — they are far from best-sellers.







Giulia Bouklhobza, aka Mrs David Harris
In any case, can these books compete with the systematic attempt by Libyan leaders to expunge any trace of my presence over two millennia? I repeat, can they vie with a world that paid virtually no attention to the end of my existence?

Take a look at The New York Times index for 1967, and you’ll see for yourself how the newspaper of record covered the tragic demise of an ancient community. I can save you the trouble of looking — just a few paltry lines were all the story got.

I am a forgotten Jew.

I am one of hundreds of thousands of Jews who once lived in countries like Iraq and Libya. All told, we numbered close to 900,000 in 1948. Today, we are fewer than 4,000, mostly concentrated in two countries — Morocco and Tunisia.

We were once vibrant communities in Aden, Algeria, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, and other nations, with roots dating back literally 2,000 years and more. Now we are next to none.

(On a positive note, the tiny Jewish community in Bahrain continues to thrive, while an emerging Jewish community in the United Arab Emirates, populated by Jews from around the world, offers some hope for a brighter future in the region.)

Why does no one speak of us and our story? Why does the world relentlessly, obsessively speak of the Palestinian refugees from the 1948 and 1967 wars in the Middle East — who, not unimportantly, were displaced by wars launched by their own Arab brethren — but totally ignore the Jewish refugees from the 1948 and 1967 wars?

Why is the world left with the impression that there’s only one refugee population from the Arab-Israeli conflict, when, in fact, there are two refugee populations, and our numbers were somewhat larger than the Palestinians?

I’ve spent many sleepless nights trying to understand this injustice.

Should I blame myself?

Perhaps we Jews from Arab countries accepted our fate too passively. Maybe we failed to seize the opportunity to tell our story. Look at the Jews of Europe. They turned to articles, books, poems, plays, paintings, and film to recount their story. They depicted the periods of joy and the periods of tragedy, and they did it in a way that also captured the imagination of many non-Jews. Perhaps I was too fatalistic, too shell-shocked, or just too uncertain of my artistic or literary talents.

But that can’t be the only reason for my unsought status as a forgotten Jew. It’s not that I haven’t tried to make at least some noise. I have. I’ve organized gatherings and petitions, arranged exhibitions, appealed to the United Nations, and met with officials from just about every Western government. But somehow it all seems to add up to less than the sum of its parts. No, that’s still being too kind. The truth is, it has pretty much fallen on deaf ears.

You know that acronym — MEGO? It means “My eyes glazed over.” That’s the impression I often have when I’ve tried raising the subject of the Jews from Arab lands with diplomats, elected officials, and journalists — their eyes glaze over (TEGO).

No, I shouldn’t be blaming myself, though I could always be doing more for the sake of history and justice.

There’s actually a far more important explanatory factor, I believe.

We Jews from the Arab world picked up the pieces of our shattered lives after our hurried departures — in the wake of intimidation, violence, and discrimination — and moved on. We didn’t stand still, wallow in self-pity, or pass on our victim status to our children and children’s children.

Most of us went to Israel, where we were given a new start. The years following our arrival weren’t always easy — we began at the bottom and had to work our way up. We came with varying levels of education and little in the way of tangible assets. But we had something more to sustain us through the difficult process of adjustment and acculturation: our immeasurable pride as Jews, our deeply rooted faith, our cherished rabbis and customs, and our commitment to Israel’s survival and well-being.

Some of us — somewhere between one-fourth and one-third of the total — chose to go elsewhere.

Jews from the French-speaking Arab countries gravitated toward France and Quebec. Jews from Libya created communities in Rome and Milan. Egyptian and Lebanese Jews were sprinkled throughout Europe and North America, and some resettled in Brazil. Syrian Jews immigrated to the United States, especially New York, as well as to Mexico City and Panama City. And on it went.

Wherever we settled, we put our shoulder to the wheel and created new lives. We learned the local language if we didn’t already know it, found jobs, sent our children to school, and, as soon as we could, built our own congregations to preserve the rites and rituals that were distinctive to our tradition.

I would never underestimate the difficulties or overlook those who, for reasons of age or ill health or poverty, couldn’t make it, but, by and large, in a short time we took giant steps, whether in Israel or elsewhere.

I may be a forgotten Jew, but my voice will not remain silent. It cannot, for if it does, it becomes an accomplice to historical denial and revisionism.

I will speak out because I will not allow the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to be defined unfairly through the prism of one refugee population only, the Palestinian.

I will speak out because what happened to me is now being done, with eerie familiarity, to other minority groups in the region, including the Christians and Yazidis, and once again I see the world averting its eyes, as if denial ever solved anything.

I will speak out because I refuse to be a forgotten Jew.



(Full article at Letter from a forgotten Jew)











						David Harris republishes 'I am a Forgotten Jew' • Point of No Return
					

Fifty-five years ago last week, David Harris’s wife, Giulietta, then 16 years old, together with her parents and seven siblings, fled their native Libya. At the time, some Jews were murdered in pogroms, while others hid until they could get safe passage out of the country, never to return...




					www.jewishrefugees.org.uk


----------



## Sixties Fan

We've discussed Columbia University professor Joseph Massad before and noted his antisemitism and bigotry since this blog began in 2004.

In an article for Arabi21, Massad strongly indicates that he subscribes to the discredited Khazar theory. While it is not the main point of his article, he writes, "The Zionists of European Jews claimed that they are the descendants of the ancient Palestinian Hebrews and that their settlement project is nothing more than a 'return' to their ancient country, Israel....The pan-Jewish nationalism of European Zionism, which sought to re-establish the glories of the 'Jewish' kingdoms of the Palestinian Hebrews (who were appropriated by the Zionists as ancestors of *Europeans who had converted to Judaism*), was portrayed as 'progressive' and socialist."

This is similar to what he wrote in English for Electronic Intifada in 2017, saying that European Jews were converts to Judaism. 

The Wikipedia entry on the genetics of Ashkenazic Jews shows that nearly all studies find their origin is in the Middle East. So Massad, in the 2017 article, makes his argument that most European Jews as converts by calling it "an established historical fact."

That is "proof by assertion."

The usual version of the theory that Jews are converts is the Khazar theory, which has also been repeatedly debunked from genetic, historical, linguistic and other perspectives. It is embraced by Palestinians because their entire claim of indigeneity is destroyed when another people were there first and most Palestinian Arab families proudly trace their ancestry to Arabia. (The Palestinian Christians, on the other hand, seem to be descended from Jews.) 

Since the truth is not on their side, they need to push the Khazar lie. And that lie is meant to say that Jews don't have any historic ties to the Jewish homeland.

Denying Jewish history is just as antisemitic as denying the Holocaust.











						Columbia professor Joseph Massad espouses discredited - and antisemitic - Khazar theory
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


> So Massad, in the 2017 article, makes his argument that most European Jews as converts by calling it "an established historical fact."



If they were converts, that wouldn't count? 
Cool, all the Arabs descended from muslim converts have no rights to land.


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## Sixties Fan

> *PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas: *“After 74 years of Nakba (i.e., “the catastrophe,” the establishment of Israel), expulsion, and occupation, has the time not come for this occupation to end, for our people that is standing firm to achieve its freedom and independence, and for the wishes of our young men and women... to be realized in a promising future without occupation?”
> [Official PA TV News, July 15, 2022]


Making his intentions clear, Abbas added that the path to destroying Israel starts with creating a Palestinian state:  



> “In this regard, we say that the key to peace and security in our region begins with recognizing state of Palestine and enabling the Palestinian people to obtain their legitimate rights in accordance with international legitimacy resolutions, and ending all the permanent status issues, including the Palestinian refugees issue.
> And the way to that *begins* with ending the Israeli occupation of our land, the land of state of Palestine, with East Jerusalem as its capital, on the 1967 borders.”
> [Website of the White House, July 15, 2022]


Abbas’ speech was a momentary display of clarity and honesty.  

On most occasions, when speaking before foreign audiences and leaders, Abbas sticks to the false message that the Palestinians only seek to create a Palestinian state comprised of Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem - living beside Israel. 

For example, when speaking recently in front of EU Representative to the PA Sven Kuhn von Bergsdorff and other ambassadors of European countries Abbas spoke of “the vision of the two-state solution on the 1967 borders,” a “Palestine” on only 22% of “historic Palestine,” as opposed to demanding “45%” of that area, as allocated by the 1947 UN partition plan for the “Arab country.”  

In contrast to the conciliatory messaging designed solely for foreign consumption, domestically, as Palestinian Media Watch has consistently shown, the PA’s messaging to the Palestinian people is clear and unequivocal: Israel has no right to exist; its presence is fleeting; and it will be replaced by the “State of Palestine”.  

As Abbas openly declared, establishing the Palestinian state comprised of the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem, *is not the end game that will bring Israeli-Palestinian peace.* Rather, from the point of view of the Palestinians, establishing the limited Palestinian state is just the *beginning* of the path to achieving the real goal of destroying Israel and freeing all the so-called “Palestinian territory” that has been “occupied” for 74 years.  

While many people often blame Israel’s actions for the absence of peace, in reality, from the Palestinian point of view, the reason for the absence of peace is Israel’s very existence. Until these Palestinian attitudes change and they accept not only Israel’s de facto existence, but rather Israel’s moral, historical, just and de jure right to exist, no peace will ever be achieved.  


(full article online)










						Abbas calls to end “74 years of... occupation" - Israel - at press conference with US President Biden | PMW Analysis
					

Abbas calls to end “74 years of... occupation" - Israel - at press conference with US President Biden




					palwatch.org


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## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


> Abbas spoke of “the vision of the two-state solution on the 1967 borders,”



Palestine didn't have any borders in 1967.


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## Sixties Fan

Posted on 15 December 2009 

In much discourse about the Middle East, there is a widespread myth that Jews are interlopers from Europe and the US – white westerners who came to ‘colonise’ and ’steal land’ from the ‘native’ Palestinian people to whom it rightfully belongs. This myth, drawing on Marxist terminology, gained increasing legitimacy after 1967 when Israel annexed East Jerusalem and ‘conquered’ the West Bank. The notion of ‘occupation’ and the use of the word ‘settlers’ reinforce the concept of Israeli ‘colonisation’ of ‘Arab’ land.

Aside from assuming that the Palestinians must be the true natives because they look authentically ‘brown’, the colonialism myth supports another myth: Jews are not a people, deserving of the right to self-determination, but a religion. Thus anti-Zionists habitually talk about of US citizens of the Jewish faith, Germans of the Jewish faith and even Arabs of the Jewish faith. At the time of the French Revolution, Clermont-Tonnerre said of the emancipation of Jews: “We must refuse everything to the Jews as a nation and accord everything to Jews as individuals.” The Jewish community would somehow disappear, leaving only French citizens of Jewish religion or ancestry.

Lately, the notion that Jews are not one people but a motley collection of converts has been given a boost by Tel Aviv Professor Shlomo Sand, whose bestselling book, The Invention of the Jewish People, is now out in English. Sand’s theories build on the work of Arthur Koestler, who popularised the idea that Ashkenazi Jews are descended from the Turkic tribe, the Khazars. Both men undermine the legitimacy of Israel by inferring that Jews have no link to Palestine. Genetic studies, however, discredit Koestler’s theory: they find that Jews from East and West have more in common with each other, and are genetically closer to non-Jews of Middle eastern origin – the Kurds in particular – than they are to the non-Jewish populations they lived amongst.

Last June President Obama articulated another myth: Israel was created as a penance for the Holocaust in Europe. This myth obscures the truth that every Arab state is equally a creation of western colonialism. It also ignores the fact that the institutions of a Jewish state-in-waiting were established decades before Ben Gurion read out Israel’s declaration of independence.

We often hear or read about Israel being populated by pork-munching non-Jewish Russians and settlers from Brooklyn. But these groups are marginal. We almost never hear that 40 percent of Israel’s Jews trace their ancestry from Muslim and Arab lands. The vast majority of these Jews merely moved from one corner of the ‘Arab’ world to that Middle Eastern coastal sliver known as Israel.

Until their expulsion 50 years ago, Jews had been settled in Iraq, for example, since the Babylonians exiled Jews from Jerusalem almost 3,000 years ago. In the early 20th century, Baghdad was the most Jewish city in the world, after Salonica and Jerusalem. The Jews can be said to have as legitimate a claim on Baghdad as Palestinians on Jerusalem.

The Arabs are relative newcomers to the region; the ‘Arab’ world is a misnomer. By the time the Arabs had conquered land largely inhabited by Jews and Christians in the 7th century, the Jews had been settled there for 2,000 years. People in the West tend to apply a common misconception to all Jews, borrowing the Christian notion that Jews have been punished to wander from land to land with no country to call their own. But not only have Jews always lived in Palestine, there was continuity of Jewish settlement in the Middle East and North Africa for 2,000 years. If only native inhabitants are titled to political rights, the Jews are as indigenous as any people living in the Middle East can be.

That Jewish presence came to an end in the last 50 years. The Arab League determined to wreak revenge on defenceless Jewish citizens in Arab lands if the partition of Palestine went ahead. On the day when five Arab armies invaded the new Jewish state, the Arab League secretary, Azzam Pasha announced :”This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades”.

The Arab governments actually declared two wars in 1948. The military war against the fledgling Jewish state of Israel they lost, but they declared a second war, against a million Jewish citizens. This war they won easily, through a policy of intimidation, repression, persecution and sporadic outbreaks of violence. The result is that only 4,500 Jews are left in Arab countries.

Jews ‘stealing Arab land’ is an offensive inversion of reality. Jews in 10 Arab countries were stripped of their rights and in most cases dispossessed of their property. The World Organisation of Jews from Arab Countries estimates that Jews in Arab countries lost many more billions of assets than the Palestinians, and four times as much land as the size of Israel itself.

Seen in these terms, Arab antisemitism created Israel no less than the Holocaust. The Arabs owe the Jews big-time. It’s time the world stopped viewing the conflict through a distorted, Eurocentric lens.








						The myth of Jewish colonialism • Point of No Return
					

In much discourse about the Middle East, there is a widespread myth that Jews are interlopers from Europe and the US – white westerners who came to ‘colonise’ and ’steal land’ from the ‘native’ Palestinian people to whom it rightfully belongs. This myth, drawing on Marxist terminology, gained...




					www.jewishrefugees.org.uk


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## Sixties Fan

By popular demand I have tried to explode some of the more common myths about Jews from Arab countries.

1.While some Jews were expelled from Arab countries, many left of their own free will and were fervent Zionists. 

Although Jews in Muslim lands have a long tradition of Zionism, – and Israeli politicians such as Ran Cohen(who arrived in 1950 as a 13-year old refugee), Yisrael Yeshayahu and Shlomo Hillel, who arrived before Israel was born, are on record as saying they came as Zionists, not refugees – this myth, supported by radical Marxist academics such as Yehouda Shenhav,conveniently whitewashes all the push factors that together made life uncomfortable for the great mass of Jews living under Arab regimes after 1948 – murderous riots, anti-Jewish incitement, discriminatory laws and restrictions. As early as November 1947, the Arab League contemplated passing a lawthat would have treated all Jews of Arab countries as enemy aliens. Although this law was never passed, aspects were adopted by individual regimes. Once Zionism had been outlawed it was easy for Arab governments to scapegoat their Jewish citizens as spies or traitors.

The myth that these were Zionist immigrants has been fuelled inadvertently by the Israeli government. For ethnocentric reasons, Israel discouraged the Jews from seeing themselves as ‘refugees’, but rather as immigrants returning to their ancestral homeland.

2. Zionist agents set off bombs to scare Iraqi and Egyptian Jews into leaving.

In his book _The Gun & the Olive Branch_, David Hirst describes in detail covert Israeli operations to scare Iraqi and Egyptian Jews into fleeing their homes for the “sanctuary” of Israel. Wilbur Crane Eveland, a former CIA operative, wrote about the ‘Zionist crimes’ against Arab Jews in Iraq (Feuerlicht, _The Fate of the Jews_, 231).The writings of the disaffected Iraqi Jew Naeem Giladiare frequently invoked to support this myth.

The Egyptian bombs of 1954 were indeed the work of a pro-Zionist group, but there is no causal link with the exodus of 25,000 Jews two years later. In the Iraqi case no one will ever know for certain who planted bombs in 1950 -51, but three of the five episodes occurred after the vast majority of the Jews had already left or were leaving – and caused no casualties. The Israeli ‘new’ historian Tom Segev has produced evidence blaming the only fatal bombing on Iraqi nationalists. In his book Une si longue presence, Nathan Weinstock makes the point that only the Iraqi police possessed the no. 36 high potential grenades used in the bombings. Besides, the two Zionist ‘culprits’ executed in January 1952, whose confessions were extracted under torture, were never accused of the fatal bombing of 14 January 1951.

Moshe Gat (The Jewish exodus from Iraq, p 18) points out that the beginning of the Arab revolt in 1936 marks the onset of physical attacks on Jews. Nobody has suggested that the 10 Jews murdered and the eight instances of bombs thrown at places where Jews congregated was the work of ‘Zionists’. 

In any case undue focus on the ‘bombs’ distracts from the overwhelming evidence of official antisemitism in Arab countries, and does not explain the ‘ethnic cleansing’ of the Jews from Yemen, Syria, Libya and other countries.

3. In any case, the Palestinian refugees did not expel Jews from their homes in Arab countries.This argument is often brought up to refute the idea that the Palestinian refugees and Jewish refugees constitute ‘an exchange of refugee populations.’ It is often forgotten that the ‘Palestinian cause ‘ began life as a pan-Arab cause. Five Arab armies fought an aggressive war in the name of the Palestinian Arabs. The Palestinians who fled their homes, no less than Jewish refugees, have good reason to hold Arab governments responsible for their plight. (An Arab League law passed in the 1950s even ensured no country except Jordan would give citizenship to Palestinians.)The main difference is that one set of refugees fled as a result of war, the other persecution. Both sets of refugees deserve justice as part of a comprehensive Arab-Israeli peace settlement.

Nonetheless, the Palestinians were far from hapless victims. Palestinian Arabs fought against the Jews between November 1947 and May 1948. From the 1920s onwards, the Mufti of Jerusalem was agitating against the Jews of Palestine and in the Arab world, inciting terrorist attacks and riots. An ally of the Nazis, he was responsible for a great deal of the anti-Semitism that cost Jewish lives (he helped plan the Rashi Ali coup which led to the Iraqi Farhoud in 1941) and ultimately caused the Jews to flee from the Arab world.

4. The governments of Morocco, Egypt, Iraq and Yemen (unlike Israel) have always stated that those Jews who left are welcome to return.A cynical propaganda exercise: Jews have not exactly been falling over themselves to return to the tyrannies which persecuted them. The one Jew who returned to Iraq in 1971 (see comment 17) vanished, presumed killed.

5.The expulsion of some Jews was a natural reaction to the ‘stealing of Palestinian land and establishment of the Zionist entity’. 

The idea that Arab states were justified in taking revenge against their peaceful Jewish citizens is bizarre. Would it have been understandable if Americans had gone on the rampage against Muslims after 9-11?

Even if one assumes the whole of the land now constituting Israel to be ‘stolen’ the Jews of Arab countries are reckoned to have lost far more in land and assets.

This myth also whitewashes the fact that Arab antisemitism, xenophobic nationalism and Islamism predated the establishment of Israel.


6. The creation of Israel is expiation for European antisemitism and the Holocaust. The Jews are a European question and Israel is a colonialist European implant.This popular leftwing myth ignores the fact that half the Jewish population of Israel are Jews indigenous to the Middle East. In many cases Jewish communities in Arab countries go back to Biblical times and predate Islam by 1,000 years. This myth posits that Arab antisemitism began in 1948 and that relations between Jews and Muslims before the creation of Israel were harmonious or even idyllic.

The truth is that Jews are an Arab questionas much as a European. Relations between Jews and Muslims were unequal and historically precarious. Even the Andalusian Golden Age in medieval times may not have been the idyll it is often described.

The Jews were not the only victims of modern Arab Muslim nationalism. Other minorities have suffered persecution and ethnic cleansing. Indeed, non-Muslims constitute a useful distraction from their domestic failures for the failed and dysfunctional autocracies of the Arab world.

7. Israel’s Ashkenazi ruling class caused the exodus of Jews from Arab countries in order to exploit them as immigrant labour.

A corollary of myth no. 2: the Jews were made to leave by the Zionists and on arrival in Israel became second class citizens. Their natural allies and fellow victims of racism are Arab Israelis/ Palestinians. This myth has been thoroughly debunked here.

The scandal of the ‘ringworm’ children, irradiated by the Ashkenazi establishment in the 1950s, turns out largely to be just another conspiracy theory (with thanks: Franck).








						Seven myths about Jews from Arab countries • Point of No Return
					

By popular demand I have tried to explode some of the more common myths about Jews from Arab countries. 1.While some Jews were expelled from Arab countries, many left of their own free will and were fervent Zionists. Although Jews in Muslim lands have a long tradition of Zionism, – and Israeli...




					www.jewishrefugees.org.uk


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## Sixties Fan

_Faisal Abu Khadra, a member of the PLO’s Palestinian National Council (PNC) and a columnist for the East Jerusalem daily Al-Quds, wrote in a July 5, 2022 column that the Palestinian refugees’ right of return is a “divine right” that the Palestinians will never relinquish. Palestine, he added, is the Palestinians’ homeland, whereas the Zionists originate in northern Germany and are therefore “Aryan, rather than Semitic, in origin.” He criticized the countries neighboring Israel for signing the armistice agreements with it in 1949  without making this conditional on allowing the return of the Palestinian refugees to their homes. This is a historic mistake no less grave than the Nakba itself, he said.

The following are translated excerpts from his column:_*[1]*

“The Palestinians cannot conceivably agree to be settled anywhere except in their cities and villages in Palestine. The logic of this is acknowledged throughout the world… No matter what the material and moral incentives, the Palestinians will never accept any [other] proposal, [no matter how] generous, for a very simple reason: Their land is in the grips of an occupation that has no historical roots in it.

“Many Palestinians are nationals of [countries] other than Palestine, but this does not in any way mean that they have forgotten their country, their homeland, and their historical roots in that blessed soil.

“The Zionist leaders said that [the Palestinians of] the Nakba generation will die and their children and grandchildren will forget [Palestine and the right of return]. But those ignorant people discovered that no person of Palestinian origin can conceivably forget his homeland. The Palestinians, thank God, both the refugees and elsewhere, have not forgotten and will never forget their country, Palestine. Successive [Israeli] governments tried and are still trying, along with their ally, the U.S., to abolish UNRWA using every possible trick, thinking that, if they do this, it would eliminate the most important element in the right of return.  [But] the Palestinian people, including all its sectors… has never and will never give up the right of return, by any means.

“The Palestinian people respects all the international resolutions [on the Palestinian issue] and will never relinquish them, chief of them the one about the right of return. This is a divine right, and the mere thought of an alternative homeland or of [the Palestinians] living outside historical Palestine is an illusion that exists [only] in the mind of the occupiers and their supporters.  

“Every people in the world is entitled to live in its land. So why do the occupiers and their supporters want the Palestinians to live on foreign soil that is not the soil on which their forefathers lived since 5,000 BCE and where they still live today? The ones who built the harbors of Jaffa, Haifa, Acre and Ashdod are our forefathers, the Canaanites.

“[As for] the Zionists, none of them originate in Palestine. Rather, they come from Ashkenaz, which is northern Germany. They are Aryan rather than Semitic in origin. That is why we see that they are all nationals of [the countries] from which they emigrated to Palestine. The notion of the Promised Land is a Zionist invention.

“It is accurate to say that the countries surrounding [Israel] committed a historic mistake against the Palestinian people when they signed a permanent armistice [agreement with Israel] without making it conditional on [actualizing the Palestinians’ right] of return. This is especially [grave] considering that [UN] Resolution 194 was issued in 1949, and in that very same year these countries signed the ceasefire agreement [with Israel] – which is equal [in its gravity] to the Nakba of the Palestinian people.” 











						Palestinian National Council Member: The Right Of Return Is A Divine Right That The Palestinians Will Never Relinquish; The Zionists Are Aryan In Origin, Not Semitic
					

In a July 5, 2022 column, Faisal Abu Khadra, a member of the PLO's Palestinian National Council (PNC) and a columnist for the East Jerusalem daily Al-Quds, wrote that the Palestinian refugees' right of return is a "divine right" that the Palestinians will never relinquish.




					www.memri.org


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## Sixties Fan

What really happened​In 1912 land was purchased by ‘Hachsharat Hayeshuv’ – the *Zionist* ‘Palestine Land Development Company‘. This was before the British even arrived. The intention was to set up a farming village outside Jerusalem.

The Jews abandoned the first attempt to settle the land during WW1, probably in fear either of Ottoman oppression or military conscription. The Ottomans viewed Jews as ‘enemy’ (as an example Jewish communities in Tel Aviv were expelled at this time).

They returned in 1919 and in 1923 the JNF purchased a further 384 dunams to expand the Moshav. It was named ‘Atarot‘ after a biblical settlement that was believed to have existed in the area.

The British wanted to build a small airstrip near their seat of power in Jerusalem – and they began to expropriate the Moshav’s lands.

In 1926 and 1931 the British uprooted trees, destroyed crops, tore down buildings and restricted any further growth of the Moshav.

The fields and trees they destroyed were part of the livelihood of the Jewish village.

This was not the only problem the Jews faced. During the brutal Arab massacres of Jews in 1929, the settlement was attacked, almost destroyed, and the women and children were evacuated to Jerusalem. During the Arab riots of 1936-39, the settlement was attacked several times and five of its residents were killed.

As a side note – In 1936 the airport was renovated by a Jewish engineer and businessman, Pinchas Rutenberg. And as the airport began to take commercial flights – Rutenberg founded ‘Palestine Airways’:





That is no doubt another image that anti-Israel activists can turn into a viral ‘theft’ of Jewish history.

There was no happy ending.  In 1948 The Jewish town was attacked, first by locals, and then the Jordanian Legion. As they tried to hold on, a convoy sending supplies in March 1948 was attacked, and 16 Jews were slaughtered. Unable to survive – the Jews were forced to leave in May. Several Jewish neighbourhoods in the area were ethnically cleansed:





*ALL* of the Jewish villages captured by the Egyptian, Syrian or Jordanian forces in 1948 were razed to the ground. And *ALL* of the Jewish inhabitants either fled – or were jailed, expelled or murdered.

The Jordanians destroyed almost all the evidence that the village had ever existed – and used all the available lands to expand and internationalise the airport. It was built on top of an ethnically cleansed Jewish village.

This is the airport the Palestinians are so proud of.

The Palestinian academic narrative​It would be foolish to think the fake narrative is only the work of social media trolls. This is how this history is described in a piece on the website of the  ‘Institute for Palestine Studies’ in the section under ‘Historical Background‘:

“The airport was established by the British Mandate in 1920’s. It was a small military base known by the British as ‘Kolundia Airfield’. In 1948, the British Mandate ended and the West Bank was put under the supervision of Jordan. In the early 1950’s the Jordanians turned the airfield into a civil airport, erected the still existing airport building and named it the Jerusalem Airport.”

They simply wipe the Jewish history out completely.

The inversion of truth​I often say that the Palestinians probably cannot believe their luck. They can make up any old story – create any fake history, and much of the world is willing to think the worst of the Jews. This was land that the Jews bought – even before the British arrived. They built a village there. For decades they faced British and Arab hostility – had land stolen – people killed, and eventually were expelled completely from the area. And today anti-Israel activists turn it all on its head – pushing lie after lie. Perversely, they even use words like ‘illegal’ and ‘colony’ –  as if it is the Jews who have stolen something.



> “The Qalandia Airport was a magical place where I first experienced, as a child, the freedom of flying. Like the rest of Palestinian land, it was stolen, violated and deformed, becoming a symbol of oppression and captivity.” – Hanan Ashrawi, a member of the Executive Committee of the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO)




​Stealing history​Very little of what Palestinians claim is true. It is without much doubt one of the most effective and successful propaganda machines ever built. They even make up stories about imaginary dams flooding and European politicians will share the story as if it is true. The Jerusalem Airport story is a microcosm of the conflict and the Palestinian propaganda war against the truth. The Palestinians deny Jewish history and seek to erase it – in order to convince people that once upon a time Palestine was actually a nation. When you literally do not have a history you have to invent or steal one. The Palestinians do both.

(full article online)









						Palestinian lies - built upon Jewish blood
					

The Jerusalem Airport story is a microcosm of the conflict and the Palestinian propaganda war against the truth.




					david-collier.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

The Jewish Agency is in the news:




> Russia is threatening to ban a major Jewish nonprofit agency that helps people emigrate to Israel from operating in the country, a sign of the Kremlin’s deteriorating relationship with Israel and of the far-reaching fallout from the war in Ukraine.
> 
> Russia’s Justice Ministry is seeking to liquidate the Russian branch of the nonprofit, the Jewish Agency for Israel, which operates in coordination with the Israeli government, according to a notice from a Moscow court.



The article notes:


> The Jewish Agency, *founded nearly a century ago as the Jewish Agency for Palestine*, was instrumental in helping establish Israel in 1948, and has facilitated the emigration of millions of Jews from around the globe.


This is not true. It was originally founded in 1908 as the *Palestine Office*, part of the Zionist Organization - in Hebrew,  המשרד הארץ-ישראלי, _HaMisrad HaEretz Yisraeli_, "Office for the Land of Israel."

In 1921, the name was changed to the Jewish Agency for Palestine, in Hebrew "הסוכנות היהודית לארץ ישראל", _HaSochnut HaYehudit L'Eretz Yisra'el,_ literally the Jewish Agency for the Land of Israel."

Here is a pin that the Jewish Agency used to distribute:





Apparently, the original name in Hebrew stuck for a while though, as this 1936 letterhead from Berlin shows:





Here is an immigration certificate for a lucky Jew from Poland in 1938 that uses both the "Jewish Agency for Palestine" and "Palestine Office" names, but in Hebrew it is always Eretz Yisrael.






After the War of Independence, it was renamed again, to the Jewish Agency for Israel - but *in Hebrew, there was no reason to rename it.*

Because before 1948, the translation of "Palestine" *was *"The Land of Israel."

Today's "Palestine" has nothing at all to do with Palestine before 1948. Every map, every reference to it was always to the Land of Israel (or, in English, the Holy Land.) Palestinian Arabs did not want to be called "Palestinian" - but Jews proudly did.

Palestinian Arabs, at least through the 1920s, also had a name for the land. But it wasn't "Palestine." It was "Suria El Jenobia" - Southern Syria. 

The only people who wanted an independent Palestine were the Jews. And the Jewish Agency, an organization hated by anti-Zionists, helps prove it.











						The Jewish Agency's history destroys the "Palestine was an Arab state" narrative
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

The event was covered by *La Presse*, *Le Soleil* and *La Voix de l’Est. *It was also mentioned in a *Globe and Mail article.* All news outlets failed to adequately cover the inflammatory comments that Waters made against Israel and the Jewish people.

To wit:



There’s no truth to the accusation that Hayarkon Park is “Built on Palestinian dead people.”
There was no “massacre” in Jenin in 2002. The Israeli Defense Forces carried out Operation Defensive Shield after wave after wave of suicide bombers originated from the Jenin refugee camps in months prior, killing hundreds of Israelis. In a pinpoint defensive operation, Israeli forces risked their lives by entering this raven’s nest full of terrorists to prevent further attacks on Israeli citizens. The final death toll saw 56 Palestinians dead, the majority of whom were combatants, along with 23 Israeli soldiers.
Waters’ attempt to draw sympathy for the efforts of Palestinian suicide terrorists is morally repugnant.
His claim that there is a “fascist” system of “Jewish supremacy” within Israel ignores that two million+ Israeli-Arabs have full and democratic right alongside the Jewish majority in Israel. Israeli Arabs can vote and be elected to the Knesset, Israel’s parliament. They have served on Israel’s supreme court, and are active in business, diplomacy, media and more within Israel. Clearly, then, Waters’ attempted portrayal of Israel as being under a “system of Jewish supremacy” is fanciful, and based in nothing more than ideology, not facts.
Comparing Israeli polices to the Nazis by insinuating that Israel is carrying out a “Holocaust” of Palestinians is antisemitic according to the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of antisemitism.
Saying that Israel was founded by “settler colonialists” denies 3,000 years of Jewish indigeneity.
His claim that wealthy donors put pressure on McGill University to oppose pro-Palestinian policies a) has not been substantiated and b) insinuates that wealthy pro-Israel donors, Jews implied, control McGill University. This reeks of the antisemitic trope and conspiracy theory from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Roger Waters, made famous from his band Pink Floyd, was given an undue platform to spread disinformation, lies and to make unsubstantiated allegations, which has the potential to fan the flames of hatred towards Jewish Canadians, who continue to be disproportionately the victims of hate crimes in Canada.


(full article online)









						Roger Waters Bashes Israel In Support Of Pro-Palestinian Students At McGill University
					

On July 14, Roger Waters performed in Montreal and spoke at an anti-Israel event called: “Standing Up For Student Solidarity




					honestreporting.ca


----------



## Sixties Fan

I came across an online copy of Arab-Israeli Conflict: The Essential Reference Guide, a 2014 volume that attempts to distill the conflict to less than 400 pages, including source materials. 

Written and edited by southeast Asia-based academic Priscilla Roberts, it attempts to be even-handed and there is little that is offensive or too inaccurate (it certainly has mistakes.) 

But when I searched the book for "antisemitism," it mentions only the European version. It says nothing about Arab antisemitism. It doesn't have a separate entry on the Mufti of Jerusalem and his virulent hate nor anything about his Nazi collaboration. It mentions the Hebron pogrom of 1929 only as an aside in the article on United Kingdom Middle East policy: "Sporadic armed conflict between the two communities simmered until, in August 1929, 67 Jews were murdered by rioters in Hebron. This shocking event eroded what little confidence Jewish leaders had in a binational compromise future for the region and led to the rapid expansion of the paramilitary Jewish self-defense force known as the Haganah."

Throughout the book, Arab antipathy towards Jews is framed as a logical response to Zionism and the history of Islamic and Arab antisemitism is simply not there.

This is what we see in the media as well as academia. Jew-hatred is fundamentally irrational and no one wants to accuse Arabs or Muslims of being irrational, because that sounds Orientalist. Ignoring the very real history of antipathy towards Jews in the Arab world is not doing anyone any favors, though - if one ignores a fundamental reason for the conflict, one cannot possibly pretend to explain it.

Since the beginning of Islam, Jews were regarded as dhimmis in Muslim-majority (mostly Arab) lands. They were second class citizens with limited rights. They were tolerated, mostly, as long as they kept in their place. When they were perceived as having crossed some imaginary line, they were subjected to pogroms no less violent than those in eastern Europe. And the very existence of a Jewish state in the midst of Arab lands is hated not because of pro-Palestinian sentiment: it is from the shame that the weak, hated, dhimmi Jews defeated the combined Arab armies.

To ignore that history in describing the Arab Israeli conflict is to effectively censor an important narrative. Even worse, it ignores the antisemitism that is still seen in Arab media, today. 

Roberts worked with a larger team on the four volume 2008 "The Encyclopedia of The Arab-Israeli Conflict: A Political, Social, and Military History" which is also online. In that work, Arab antisemitism is not ignored, but it is minimized.
Its entry on antisemitism concentrates on how historic European antisemitism has animated modern Zionism, while Arab and Muslim antisemitism is mentioned only as a logical result of Jewish ambition. Even the Mufti's antisemitism, which is well documented from his own writings and radio broadcasts, is  downplayed as a response to Jewish power or realpolitik:



> The figure of Haj Amin al-Husseini, grand mufti of Jerusalem, serves as an excellent indication of growing anti-Jewish sentiment during this period. A significant leader of the Palestinian Arabs, al-Husseini moved *incrementally *toward anti-Semitism as he opposed Jewish *ambitions *in the region. While he had economic dealings with the Jewish population, he also inspired and organized the growth of Arab paramilitary groups intent on thwarting the growth of *Jewish power. *When disputes over access to the holy places in Jerusalem led to open conflict in 1929, *he proved unable to control his followers *and ultimately gave assent to their actions.






> ...The grand mufti of Jerusalem gained notoriety for his active courting of the Axis powers. However, his motivations also involved *significant anti-British sentiment, *for he viewed the Germans as the likely victors in the war and sought to gain influence with them.




This is ahistorical but it reflects the general attitude of scholars towards Arab antisemitism: when it is mentioned at all, it is regarded as an unfortunate consequence of Jewish greed and power or an unintended result of other historical events. It is never considered on its own, and it is not mentioned as a continuation of centuries of Muslim attitudes towards Jews, as well as the influence of virulent Christian Arab antisemitism on Arab nationalism in the early 20th century which converted the Arab attitude towards Jews into full blown hate. 

The bias is clear when we see the full-page entry on "Anti-Arab Attitudes and Discrimination:" 



> Anti-Arab attitudes, especially toward Muslim Arabs, as well as formal and informal policies and codes of conduct that unfairly target Arabs and are sometimes known as anti-Arabism have been *especially virulent in Israel since 1948*.


From reading this encyclopedia, one would believe that the only irrational hate in the conflict is that of Jews towards Arabs!

There is a major gap in scholarship towards the Middle East, and there are no signs that anyone is interested in filling it.











						Arab antisemitism: The hate that cannot be named
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

With regards to the assertion that the land has been Palestinian for 4,000 years, HonestReporting has previously addressed this fantastic example of historical revisionism:



> Palestine, or officially “Provincia Syria Palaestina,” was a name invented by the Romans in 135 CE as a replacement for “Judea,” in an effort to eliminate all expressions of Jewry in the region following the defeat of Bar Kohba in the Jewish rebellion against the Roman Empire. Similarly, Jerusalem was officially renamed Aelia Capitolina.”


In fact, the Muslim conquest of the Levant did not occur until the early part of the seventh century when Muslim armies began to take over large swathes of the Middle East. 

Furthermore, the suggestion that Jesus was a Palestinian is also incorrect: Jesus was born in Judea and was identified as Jew. Indeed, the cross upon which Jesus is said to have been crucified was inscribed with INRI’ – _Iesvs Nazarenvs Rex Ivdaeorvm_, which means ‘Jesus of Nazareth King of the Jews’ in Latin.

Earth to Gigi Hadid: Ukraine and ‘Palestine’ Are Not the Same​A massive dose of ahistoricism is required to make Gigi’s comparison. As such, a cold splash of reality is in order. Specifically, when Israel captured a number of territories during the Six-Day War it did so while fighting for its very survival against an onslaught by armies from neighboring Arab countries. A Palestinian state did not exist then, just as it does not exist today. Those captured territories, which Jerusalem offered to return in exchange for peace, were in fact taken from three countries that were aiming to eliminate Israel: Syria, Jordan and Egypt. 

Ukraine, on the other hand, has never attacked or threatened to attack Russia. The latter is not acting in self-defense as Israel consistently has.

Gigi’s “solidarity” with Palestinians has veered into the utterly banal, such as her later-deleted post of artwork with the quote, “You Will Not Erase Palestine.”

Of course, the oft-used assertion that Israel is on some nefarious mission to “erase” Palestinians or their imagined state totally ignores the salient fact that Israel has repeatedly attempted to see the actualization of a Palestinian state via multiple peace deals. As we know, these have all been turned down by a Palestinian leadership that is hellbent on taking a path of perpetual rejectionism.

As an aside, any insinuation that Israel is seeking to drive out Palestinians is simply not grounded in reality considering their numbers have grown exponentially since Israel’s establishment in 1948.

Meet Baby Brother Anwar Hadid, Who Called for the IDF to Be “Erased From the Planet”​The lesser known Hadid sibling, Anwar, allegedly a model in his own right, has not even tried to mask his antisemitism and animus towards Israelis. 

In May of last year, leaked messages from the 23-year-old show that he sent messages to an Israeli woman, Taylor Amrani, in which he called for the deaths of all members of the Israel Defense Forces, saying he wished to see them “erased from the planet.” 

In another message sent in response to an image of a 13-year-old girl who had been stabbed to death by Palestinian terrorists, Anwar Hadid glibly replied that “at least she had a home to sleep in.”

And perhaps revealing his tenuous understanding of Israeli-Palestinian affairs, the youngest of the Hadid siblings reportedly revealed to Amrani his belief that Israel’s first president Chaim Weizmann is Israel’s leader. 

Fact check, Anwar: Chaim Weizmann died in 1952.

Father Knows Least: Family Patriarch Mohamed Hadid​In the case of the Hadid children, it seems that the apples do not fall far from the tree. Their father Mohamed has been called out for sharing some of the most egregious lies about the Jewish state imaginable, such as in 2020 when he attempted to link American police brutality to Israel.

Although he later apologized for the Instagram post, it rang somewhat hollow when just two months later he attributed a false quote to Jewish physicist Albert Einstein that compared Zionists to Nazi Germany.



(full article online)









						Hating With the Hadids: How a Family of Social Media Titans Is Using Their Might Against Israel | Honest Reporting
					

Collectively, the family boasts 135 million Instagram followers, which is roughly the population of Israel 15 times over.  It is, therefore, no




					honestreporting.com


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## Sixties Fan

[ Adam and Eve, Abraham, Moses, were Muslims,  the whole world......is Muslim and belongs to Islam, only ]

Habbash also addressed the ongoing conflict over the Temple Mount, saying that the Al Aqsa compound is under full control of the Islamic waqf, and as such, only Muslims could hold ownership over it.

"The entire area of Al-Aqsa is owned by Muslims only, and non-Muslims have no right to own even an inch of it. Prayer, management and ownership are the exclusive right of Muslims," he said, adding that the Western Wall plaza was also "part of the holy Islamic waqf" and the Al Aqsa compound, and as such, cannot belong to the Jews.

"There is no Muslim in the world who would accept Jewish ownership or sovereignty over the Kotel," he said.

(full article online)



			https://www.israelhayom.com/2022/07/29/israel-has-no-sovereignty-over-western-wall-abbas-religious-adviser-says/


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> In July 1948, the Arab Higher Committee for Palestine submitted a memorandum to the United Nations titled "Jewish Atrocities in the Holy Land." It is a hate-filled piece of antisemitic propaganda filled with the most obscene lies about the Jews of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This example of pure antisemitism is still available in the UN archives online.
> 
> It was turned into a pamphlet to be distributed widely, and a copy of that can be seen at the Library of Congress.
> 
> The Arab League Information Bureau in Cairo issued an updated version in March 1949, which is now available in the online Palestinian Museum Archive, naturally.
> 
> Here are excerpts from the 1949 version, which leaves no doubt as to the pure Jew-hatred of these documents.
> 
> They start off with Holocaust inversion and Jewish media control:
> 
> 
> After elaborating on how depraved the Jews are, we are told that the Arabs had welcomed them with open arms as they fled pogroms:
> 
> After some Biblical quotes on how Jews wantonly and thoroughly destroy their enemies, the pamphlet goes on to say that this is especially bad because the Jews are rich and cultured:
> 
> 
> Then comes example after example of completely fictional stories of Jewish atrocities. For example, we are told that Jewish doctors  stole the blood of Arabs.
> 
> The Deir Yassin section goes into lurid detail - and it sounds almost exactly like what the Jews in Hebron suffered in 1929. Just that was true.
> 
> 
> 
> The pamphlet goes on to accuse the Jews of waging biological warfare, and being behind cholera epidemics in Egypt and Transjordan.
> 
> The propaganda is clearly written towards a Christian audience. The pamphlets emphasize how Jews supposedly attacked Christian holy places and killed members of the clergy, and even more disgustingly claimed that Arabs had treated Jewish holy places with utmost respect. (50 synagogues were destroyed in Jerusalem alone.)
> 
> Today's Palestinian propaganda is very similar, just they are more careful in English to say "Zionists" rather than "Jews."  But anyone who claims that the underlying antisemitism is not the same is fooling themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Higher Commission's disgusting antisemitic propaganda of 1948-49
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com



Eisenhower was so furious about the slaughter at Deir Yassin that he threatened to cut off US foreign aid.. Ariel Sharon was fired in disgrace.


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> The Jewish Agency is in the news:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The article notes:
> 
> This is not true. It was originally founded in 1908 as the *Palestine Office*, part of the Zionist Organization - in Hebrew,  המשרד הארץ-ישראלי, _HaMisrad HaEretz Yisraeli_, "Office for the Land of Israel."
> 
> In 1921, the name was changed to the Jewish Agency for Palestine, in Hebrew "הסוכנות היהודית לארץ ישראל", _HaSochnut HaYehudit L'Eretz Yisra'el,_ literally the Jewish Agency for the Land of Israel."
> 
> Here is a pin that the Jewish Agency used to distribute:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently, the original name in Hebrew stuck for a while though, as this 1936 letterhead from Berlin shows:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an immigration certificate for a lucky Jew from Poland in 1938 that uses both the "Jewish Agency for Palestine" and "Palestine Office" names, but in Hebrew it is always Eretz Yisrael.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After the War of Independence, it was renamed again, to the Jewish Agency for Israel - but *in Hebrew, there was no reason to rename it.*
> 
> Because before 1948, the translation of "Palestine" *was *"The Land of Israel."
> 
> Today's "Palestine" has nothing at all to do with Palestine before 1948. Every map, every reference to it was always to the Land of Israel (or, in English, the Holy Land.) Palestinian Arabs did not want to be called "Palestinian" - but Jews proudly did.
> 
> Palestinian Arabs, at least through the 1920s, also had a name for the land. But it wasn't "Palestine." It was "Suria El Jenobia" - Southern Syria.
> 
> The only people who wanted an independent Palestine were the Jews. And the Jewish Agency, an organization hated by anti-Zionists, helps prove it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish Agency's history destroys the "Palestine was an Arab state" narrative
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com



Of course it was Southern Syria.. it was a province of Syria 500 years before Christ.


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## surada

teddyearp said:


> Abi, caught in yet another lie. You claim that indee admitted that the western wall is actually from a roman fort, then when you show what he actually said, it is not what he said at all!
> 
> The western wall is not part of the old temple and never was considered as such. It is a retaining wall built by Herod for the temple mount.



Jews didn't worship at the Western wall until after the expulsion from Spain and Portugal. It was a Roman fortress called Fortress Antonia.


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## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?



They were called Palestinians by 1950.  You lied about Jenin too.









						Battle of Jenin (2002) - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

From Al Watan Voice:




> Sheikh Ikrima Sabri, the preacher of Al-Aqsa Mosque, confirmed that the occupation has been excavating and digging in Al-Aqsa Mosque since 1967, but he did not find a single stone related to the ancient Hebrew Jewish history.
> 
> In press statements, Sabri stressed that what the occupation found are Roman and Islamic monuments from the Umayyad, Abbasid, Mamluk and Turkish eras.



This is a constant theme in Palestinian media. 

The absurdity is almost beyond belief. The entire Marwani Mosque, the underground mosque on the Temple Mount that was excavated by the Waqf, is built in the area of what is known as "Solomon's Stables" but were built during the Herodian era. The retaining walls of the Temple have been dug to the their foundations and are well-dated.

The entire City of David archaeological park, the numerous ritual baths that are right outside the Temple Mount, the bullae that have been found...the list is endless. 

This stone, discovered next to the Temple Mount after 1967 by archaeologist Benjamin Mazar, says - in Hebrew - "To the Place of Trumpeting:'





This stone was a Greek-language warning to non-Jews not to enter the Temple grounds:






> No stranger is to enter within the balustrade around the Temple and enclosure. Whoever is caught will be himself responsible for his ensuing death.



Partial remains of a similar Greek language warning were also found.

Coins of the Bar Kochba revolt included diagrams of the Temple. 

There are new findings every year, including the stunning Herodian tiles found in the Temple Mount Sifting Project, which has also found First Temple-era finds and many Hebrew inscriptions. 

The desire to erase Jewish history is simple bigotry. 










						Al Aqsa preacher again pretends that there is no archaeological proof of Jews in Jerusalem
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Eisenhower was so furious about the slaughter at Deir Yassin that he threatened to cut off US foreign aid.. Ariel Sharon was fired in disgrace.


Which history book did you get this information from?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Of course it was Southern Syria.. it was a province of Syria 500 years before Christ.


It was known as Judea.  Judea comes from Judah.  It was known during Roman times as the Province of Judea.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Jews didn't worship at the Western wall until after the expulsion from Spain and Portugal. It was a Roman fortress called Fortress Antonia.


And that would change the right of the Jews to their ancient homeland, how?

Conclusion​Loewenberg concludes:

...there is no ancient Jewish tradition that designates the Western Wall as a sacred site. Instead, it was designated as a place of prayer less than five hundred years ago by a Muslim ruler. It took more than three centuries for the wall to attract the Jewish masses and, only in the last 150 years, has it become Judaism’s most sacred site. Yet, even if this place was not intrinsically holy (let alone as holy as the Temple Mount), or even if it had not been so designated by Suleyman the Great, it has become sanctified over time as Jews have increasingly utilized it for prayer.





__





						History & Overivew of the Western Wall
					

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.




					www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> And that would change the right of the Jews to their ancient homeland, how?
> 
> Conclusion​Loewenberg concludes:
> 
> ...there is no ancient Jewish tradition that designates the Western Wall as a sacred site. Instead, it was designated as a place of prayer less than five hundred years ago by a Muslim ruler. It took more than three centuries for the wall to attract the Jewish masses and, only in the last 150 years, has it become Judaism’s most sacred site. Yet, even if this place was not intrinsically holy (let alone as holy as the Temple Mount), or even if it had not been so designated by Suleyman the Great, it has become sanctified over time as Jews have increasingly utilized it for prayer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History & Overivew of the Western Wall
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org



There are photos from Bon Fils from the 1880s of Jewish women praying at the wall.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> They were called Palestinians by 1950.  You lied about Jenin too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Battle of Jenin (2002) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org


What was the lie about Jenin supposed to be?
----------

Jews, Arabs, Bedouins, Druze, etc, who found themselves in the region of Palestine once the Mandate of Palestine was created......all were called Palestinians.

Once TranJordan became Jordan, those living there were called Jordanians.
Once Israel became Independent, those living there were called Israelis.

Those living in Gaza.....under Egyptian rule 48-67......????
Those living in Judea and Samaria between 1948-1967 were called Jordanians:

When Jordan transferred its full citizenship rights to the residents of the West Bank, the annexation more than doubled the population of Jordan.[4] The naturalized Palestinians enjoyed equal opportunities in all sectors of the state without discrimination, and they were given half of the seats of the Jordanian parliament.[13]









						Jordanian annexation of the West Bank - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> There are photos from Bon Fils from the 1880s of Jewish women praying at the wall.


And your point is?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> What was the lie about Jenin supposed to be?
> ----------
> 
> Jews, Arabs, Bedouins, Druze, etc, who found themselves in the region of Palestine once the Mandate of Palestine was created......all were called Palestinians.
> 
> Once TranJordan became Jordan, those living there were called Jordanians.
> Once Israel became Independent, those living there were called Israelis.
> 
> Those living in Gaza.....under Egyptian rule 48-67......????
> Those living in Judea and Samaria between 1948-1967 were called Jordanians:
> 
> When Jordan transferred its full citizenship rights to the residents of the West Bank, the annexation more than doubled the population of Jordan.[4] The naturalized Palestinians enjoyed equal opportunities in all sectors of the state without discrimination, and they were given half of the seats of the Jordanian parliament.[13]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jordanian annexation of the West Bank - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



What does that have to do with the massacre at Deir Yassin or the battle at the Jenin refugee camp?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> And your point is?



It's a very small group.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> What does that have to do with the massacre at Deir Yassin or the battle at the Jenin refugee camp?


I  answered your post.

My question still is What was the lie about Jenin?


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> It's a very small group.


Stuck on numbers.  They had the right to be there, no matter what the "numbers" were.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> I  answered your post.
> 
> My question still is What was the lie about Jenin?



Go back and read your posts.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Go back and read your posts.


I am not wasting my time with you.

You alleged that "I" lied about Jenin.

What was the lie?


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Stuck on numbers.  They had the right to be there, no matter what the "numbers" were.



They were a tiny minority for 2000 years. Other people lived there too.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> They were a tiny minority for 2000 years. Other people lived there too.


Nothing to do with this thread.


----------



## surada

MJB12741 said:


> "Right of return"!  You bring up an outstanding point.  Why is it that no Arab country will grant their Palestinians a "right of return"?



Right of Return is about Palestinians being permitted to return to their ancestral homes. They've been in Palestine since Abraham.


----------



## Sixties Fan

surada said:


> Right of Return is about Palestinians being permitted to return to their ancestral homes. They've been in Palestine since Abraham.


Stop with your antisemitic rants. 

Answer your allegation while answering post # 1 of this thread:


Post 2188

" You lied about Jenin too."


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## rylah

PA Appropriates Another Israeli Heritage Site in Samaria, Causing Mass Damage to Archaeology​
The Palestinian Authority (PA) has commandeered another archaeological site in Samaria and has converted it into a “Palestinian Heritage Site,” as a monitoring organization warns of an irreversible loss of Israeli history and culture.

The archaeological site of Sheikh Sha’ala, located in Area A under full PA control in Samaria, has recently been redecorated with a huge mast flying a PLO flag.







Farmers prepared agricultural plots and a summer house was built, without regard to the archaeological findings that were irreversibly damaged.

The meaning of the name “Sheikh Sha’ala” in Arabic is owner or lord of the flame, implying that this is the biblical site at which fire came down and burned the messengers of Ahaziah king of Israel who came to Elijah the prophet, as described in the Book of Kings II.

The site overlooks all of ancient Samaria, the capital of the kings of Israel during the First Temple period.

The site has an ancient structure with a Greek inscription from the 4th century CE, the Byzantine period in the Land of Israel, which tells of the magnificent building erected on the site in memory of Elijah the Prophet. “Help Stephen … who built this wonderful house for Elijah the prophet,” the dedication reads.

The floor of the building dates to the 6th century CE. The building incorporates Crusader and Muslim motifs. The building was used in the Byzantine period through the Crusader period and was then abandoned.

Shomrim Al Hanetzach (Preserving Eternity), a watchdog group dedicated to protecting Israel’s archaeological treasures, discovered recently the significant damage to the ancient remains at the site. In addition to the summer house and agricultural plots that were prepared with heavy machines, vandals scrawled graffiti on the Byzantine-era dedication plaque affixed at the site by the builder of the house in honor of Elijah.

The PA has announced it has further plans for development at the site.

The PA damaging of heritage sites in Judea and Samaria is not new. In recent years, huge PLO flags have been hoisted at several heritage sites, severely damaging the archaeological remains.

In November 2020, the PA inaugurated a “Palestinian” tourist complex in the town of Sebastia in Samaria, the historic capital of the biblical Kingdom of Israel. *A flagpole with the PLO flag was affixed to the ancient stones, under the auspices of UNESCO and the Belgian government,* without any archaeological and scientific supervision.

More recently, unknown individuals from the PA have again caused damage to the Biblical-era site of Yehoshua ben Nun’s Altar on Mount Ebal.

In January, Shomrim Al Hanetzach discovered that Arabs operating an illegal factory in Beit Fajar in Gush Etzion took about two kilometers from a *Second Temple period aqueduct and ground it into gravel for construction.*

Read more -








						PA Appropriates Another Israeli Heritage Site in Samaria, Causing Mass Damage to Archaeology
					

The archaeological site of Sheikh Sha’ala, located in Area A under full PA control in Samaria, has recently been redecorated with a huge mast flying a PLO flag.




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mira Sidawi is an actress, writer and director born in the refugee camp of Burj al-Barajneh in Lebanon to a Palestinian family. She regularly participates in BBC Arabic’s women’s magazine “Dunyana”, where she is presented as coming from “Palestine” despite the instructions on the use of that term in the BBC Academy’s style guide on Israel and the Palestinians (since May 2021 online access to the guide is restricted to BBC personnel only; latest publicly visible edition is from February 2021).






BBC caption reads: “Mira Sidawi, Palestine”
Although none of the contributors of “Dunyana” officially bears the title “host”, in many episodes Sidawi is the person opening the program and letting the viewers know that “our time is up” when it concludes. Hence in practice she is the show’s host in these cases and should be regarded as such in relation to the BBC’s impartiality standards.

In one episode with the theme of traditional Middle Eastern food which was originally broadcast in January 2022, Sidawi said the following: [emphasis in bold added]

Sidawi: “The Palestinian cuisine in particular, it also engages in resistance, like the Palestinian people as a whole. Because it is a cuisine subject to domination, and to- they try-“

Guest: “correct, correct”

Sidawi: “Israel tries to assume domination over the Palestinian cuisine, with a view that- I mean, it is funny that usually the occupation leaves a mark on the peoples. I mean, it leaves…the French leave their mark on the food, in different [parts of] the world. The occupier, I mean. Israel does not leave any mark of its own, because it does not have any[mark to leave], it is compelled to take from the original peoples.”



(video)


As short as this segment is, Sidawi’s claims – especially her assertion that Israel “does not have any [mark to leave]” – illustrate a widespread Arab nationalist perception of Jews in Israel also found among BBC Arabic staff.

Sidawi’s attempt to deny the existence of Israeli food so matter-of-factly (in all likelihood, without having set a foot in Israel in her life) should be viewed within the framework of an ongoing anti-Zionist campaign that is several years old. Its supporters often attribute Israel’s culinary landscape in its entirety to an imaginary Palestinian arcadia in which Shakshuka, Sabich, Hummus and Falafel with Sauerkraut as an add-on were commonly consumed long before the emergence of Zionism. Ostensibly copyrighted by generations of peaceful Arab villagers based on their inalienable indigenous rights, all these dishes were supposedly then violently appropriated by Israel.

Secondly, it comes in a broader context of denying all aspects of Jewish indigeneity in the Land of Israel, with BBC Arabic having engaged in such denial numerous times in the near past. Three notable examples: unquestioningly depicting the location of the Jerusalem Temple until 70 AD as something “the Jews claim”; misleadingly portraying a tiny faction of Ashkenazi, anti-Zionist Haredim from West Jerusalem as the representatives of “Palestine” in a program about “Jews of the Arab Mashreq”; and anachronistically labeling the two major population groups in Mandatory Palestine as “Jews” and “Palestinians” even though Jews and Arabs alike were both considered Palestinian at the time. The latter false nomenclature was even backed by BBC complaints director Richard Hutt in a March 2021 letter to CAMERA Arabic, under the pretext it is not “materially misleading” audiences.






BBC Arabic presents the historically well–establishedlocation of the Jerusalem Temple as something “the Jews claim”. The English version of the same video stops short of showing this frame and is thus shorter by a couple of seconds.

However, Sidawi stands out even against this backdrop. By comparing Israel to France and arguing that unlike others, Israeli Jews have nothing to contribute to the local cuisine of the place they “occupy”, she is taking one further step down the path of singling them out from other nations. To her, not only are Israel’s Jews not native in Palestine, they hardly belong anywhere else either and hence have no mark of their own to leave even as they colonise a land that is not theirs (such as, say, the French in Vietnam, Louisiana or elsewhere).

The practice of declaring every Palestinian cultural field as “original”, “authentic” and “legitimately owned” – in contrast to the respective “artificial”, “hijacked” or “plundered” Israeli one – carries disturbing echoes of the antisemitic stereotype whereby the Jew is incapable of creating anything authentic and is hence doomed to steal, forge and mimic the works of creative others and thus destroy them and their culture.











						BBC Arabic host politicises Middle Eastern food
					

A post by CAMERA Arabic  Mira Sidawi is an actress, writer and director born in the refugee camp of Burj al-Barajneh in Lebanon to a Palestinian family. She r




					camera-uk.org


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Mira Sidawi is an actress, writer and director born in the refugee camp of Burj al-Barajneh in Lebanon to a Palestinian family. She regularly participates in BBC Arabic’s women’s magazine “Dunyana”, where she is presented as coming from “Palestine” despite the instructions on the use of that term in the BBC Academy’s style guide on Israel and the Palestinians (since May 2021 online access to the guide is restricted to BBC personnel only; latest publicly visible edition is from February 2021).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBC caption reads: “Mira Sidawi, Palestine”
> Although none of the contributors of “Dunyana” officially bears the title “host”, in many episodes Sidawi is the person opening the program and letting the viewers know that “our time is up” when it concludes. Hence in practice she is the show’s host in these cases and should be regarded as such in relation to the BBC’s impartiality standards.
> 
> In one episode with the theme of traditional Middle Eastern food which was originally broadcast in January 2022, Sidawi said the following: [emphasis in bold added]
> 
> Sidawi: “The Palestinian cuisine in particular, it also engages in resistance, like the Palestinian people as a whole. Because it is a cuisine subject to domination, and to- they try-“
> 
> Guest: “correct, correct”
> 
> Sidawi: “Israel tries to assume domination over the Palestinian cuisine, with a view that- I mean, it is funny that usually the occupation leaves a mark on the peoples. I mean, it leaves…the French leave their mark on the food, in different [parts of] the world. The occupier, I mean. Israel does not leave any mark of its own, because it does not have any[mark to leave], it is compelled to take from the original peoples.”
> 
> 
> 
> (video)
> 
> 
> As short as this segment is, Sidawi’s claims – especially her assertion that Israel “does not have any [mark to leave]” – illustrate a widespread Arab nationalist perception of Jews in Israel also found among BBC Arabic staff.
> 
> Sidawi’s attempt to deny the existence of Israeli food so matter-of-factly (in all likelihood, without having set a foot in Israel in her life) should be viewed within the framework of an ongoing anti-Zionist campaign that is several years old. Its supporters often attribute Israel’s culinary landscape in its entirety to an imaginary Palestinian arcadia in which Shakshuka, Sabich, Hummus and Falafel with Sauerkraut as an add-on were commonly consumed long before the emergence of Zionism. Ostensibly copyrighted by generations of peaceful Arab villagers based on their inalienable indigenous rights, all these dishes were supposedly then violently appropriated by Israel.
> 
> Secondly, it comes in a broader context of denying all aspects of Jewish indigeneity in the Land of Israel, with BBC Arabic having engaged in such denial numerous times in the near past. Three notable examples: unquestioningly depicting the location of the Jerusalem Temple until 70 AD as something “the Jews claim”; misleadingly portraying a tiny faction of Ashkenazi, anti-Zionist Haredim from West Jerusalem as the representatives of “Palestine” in a program about “Jews of the Arab Mashreq”; and anachronistically labeling the two major population groups in Mandatory Palestine as “Jews” and “Palestinians” even though Jews and Arabs alike were both considered Palestinian at the time. The latter false nomenclature was even backed by BBC complaints director Richard Hutt in a March 2021 letter to CAMERA Arabic, under the pretext it is not “materially misleading” audiences.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBC Arabic presents the historically well–establishedlocation of the Jerusalem Temple as something “the Jews claim”. The English version of the same video stops short of showing this frame and is thus shorter by a couple of seconds.
> 
> However, Sidawi stands out even against this backdrop. By comparing Israel to France and arguing that unlike others, Israeli Jews have nothing to contribute to the local cuisine of the place they “occupy”, she is taking one further step down the path of singling them out from other nations. To her, not only are Israel’s Jews not native in Palestine, they hardly belong anywhere else either and hence have no mark of their own to leave even as they colonise a land that is not theirs (such as, say, the French in Vietnam, Louisiana or elsewhere).
> 
> The practice of declaring every Palestinian cultural field as “original”, “authentic” and “legitimately owned” – in contrast to the respective “artificial”, “hijacked” or “plundered” Israeli one – carries disturbing echoes of the antisemitic stereotype whereby the Jew is incapable of creating anything authentic and is hence doomed to steal, forge and mimic the works of creative others and thus destroy them and their culture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBC Arabic host politicises Middle Eastern food
> 
> 
> A post by CAMERA Arabic  Mira Sidawi is an actress, writer and director born in the refugee camp of Burj al-Barajneh in Lebanon to a Palestinian family. She r
> 
> 
> 
> 
> camera-uk.org



I doubt European Jews ate Arab foods.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> I doubt European Jews ate Arab foods.



Most Israelis are refugees from the Middle East and Africa,
where they've lived long before the Arab occupation.

Why do you frame them as Europeans?


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> Most Israelis are refugees from the Middle East and Africa,
> where they've lived long before the Arab occupation.
> 
> Why do you frame them as European?



Arabs have lived in the Middle East and Africa long before Abraham.


----------



## rylah

surada said:


> Arabs have lived in the Middle East and Africa long before Abraham.



Arabs are among the latest additions in Middle Easter and African history.
Simply put, they only appear in historic record another millennia later.

But does that address your insistence on racial framing of Jews?


----------



## Sixties Fan

He is asserting that UN General Assembly Resolution 181 is the legal basis for the State of Israel.

This is not remotely true.

First of all, General Assembly resolutions do not have the status of international law. 

Secondly, you can read Resolution 181: it did not declare the Jewish and Arab states in Palestine. It recommended the Security Council implement the provisions listed there and suggested that if either or both states declare their independence then the UN should treat their application for membership with sympathy.

When the Arabs rejected the resolution, it became a dead letter. It is valuable in the sense that it showed that the UN overwhelmingly supported a Jewish state in Palestine, but it is has no legal weight.

Some people claim that Israel itself has used UNGA 181 as its legal basis in its Declaration of Independence. It is true that Israel's Declaration of Independence referred to the resolution as onne of many reasons supporting the *right *of the Jewish people to a state, but that is not the *legal *basis for it. The Declaration says:




> In the year 5657 (1897), at the summons of the spiritual father of the Jewish State, Theodore Herzl, the First Zionist Congress convened and* proclaimed the right of the Jewish people to national rebirth in its own country.
> 
> This right was recognized in the Balfour Declaration* of the 2nd November, 1917, and* re-affirmed in the Mandate of the League of Nations *which, in particular, gave *international sanction to the historic connection between the Jewish people and Eretz-Israel and to the right of the Jewish people to rebuild its National Home.*
> 
> The catastrophe which recently befell the Jewish people - the massacre of millions of Jews in Europe - was another clear demonstration of the urgency of solving the problem of its homelessness by* re-establishing in Eretz-Israel the Jewish State*, which would open the gates of the homeland wide to every Jew and confer upon the* Jewish people the status of a fully privileged member of the comity of nations.*
> 
> Survivors of the Nazi holocaust in Europe, as well as Jews from other parts of the world, continued to migrate to Eretz-Israel, undaunted by difficulties, restrictions and dangers, and *never ceased to assert their right to a life of dignity, freedom and honest toil in their national homeland.*
> 
> In the Second World War, the Jewish community of this country contributed its full share to the struggle of the freedom- and peace-loving nations against the forces of Nazi wickedness and, *by the blood of its soldiers and its war effort, gained the right to be reckoned among the peoples who founded the United Nations.*
> 
> On the 29th November, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish State in Eretz-Israel; the General Assembly required the inhabitants of Eretz-Israel to take such steps as were necessary on their part for the implementation of that resolution. *This recognition by the United Nations of the right of the Jewish people to establish their State* is irrevocable.
> 
> *This right is the natural right of the Jewish people to be masters of their own fate, like all other nations, in their own sovereign State.*
> 
> ACCORDINGLY WE, MEMBERS OF THE PEOPLE'S COUNCIL, REPRESENTATIVES OF THE JEWISH COMMUNITY OF ERETZ-ISRAEL AND OF THE ZIONIST MOVEMENT, ARE HERE ASSEMBLED ON THE DAY OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER ERETZ-ISRAEL AND, *BY VIRTUE OF OUR NATURAL AND HISTORIC RIGHT* AND ON THE *STRENGTH *OF THE RESOLUTION OF THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY, HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A JEWISH STATE IN ERETZ-ISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL.



Resolution 181 was one of many pieces of evidence showing that Jews have the right to a state of their own. It was not the legal basis for that state.

So what is the legal basis for the State of Israel?

This 2004 legal analysis notes:

(full article online)









						The UN Commission of Inquiry says Israel's legal basis is UNGA 181. That is not true at all. (But they are lying for an anti-Israel reason.)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

I am returning to this subject once again as I am of the firm conviction that repeating this truth is one of the most powerful weapons intellectually available to counteract the pro-Palestinian industry.

There is a popular but false narrative currently used to delegitimize the Jewish State of Israel. The narrative which through weight of global propaganda, ignorance and simple Jew hatred claims that Israel is an illegitimate colonial power and the geography ‘occupied’ by Israel belongs to the Palestinian Arabs legally, historically and religiously. Such revisionism is easily debunked and paradoxically exposes that supporting the Palestinian religious claims are Islamophobic.


Palestinians were never an ancient people, tribe, nation, race nor culture but are in fact a twentieth century construct created by those parties hostile to the Jewish State of Israel. Since time immemorial there has never been a war, battle or conflict fought by those identifying as indigenous Palestinian Arabs against any foreign or domestic invader in an effort to reclaim occupied Palestinian lands. History identifies the numerous conflicts fought by Jews against invaders such as the Babylonians, Greeks and Romans among others but alas finds no evidence of the Palestinians linked to conflict in efforts to reclaim their ‘indigenous’ land. Why? Because the Palestinians, like silicone breast implants, were an invention of the 1960’s.

There are no historic cemeteries nor artefacts proving a Palestinian existence. There has never been a Palestinian currency, emblem, historic leader nor language. No buildings standing or destroyed in the geography were constructed by those identifying as indigenous Palestinians. No itinerant scribe through the ages ever made reference to the Palestinians as a nation, sect, race, tribe or culture. The comprehensive Hope Simpson Report of October 1930 commissioned by HM Government not once referred to the Palestinians. Muslims, Mohammedans or Arabs but not Palestinians. The Palestinians had not yet been invented.

From a religious Islamic perspective, the Palestinian claim to Jerusalem rather like the Palestinian historical claim is also a false narrative. A narrative which actually defies the Quran and the words of Allah and the prophet, Mohammed. Neither the Palestinians nor Jerusalem are ever noted within the Quran. However, in numerous Suras, the Quran bestows, bequeaths and promises the Land of Milk and Honey or The Promised Land, today’s Israel, to the Children of Israel, the Jewish people. To support Palestinian claims to the land is to ignore, defy and mock the will of Allah and thus must be Islamophobic.

(full article online)










						Jerusalem was never mentioned nor once referred to in the PLO Charter of 1964
					

In the original PLO Charter in 1964 there is no mention of nor claim to the city they now promote as being theirs by right since time immemorial




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## surada

rylah said:


> Arabs are among the latest additions in Middle Easter and African history.
> Simply put, they only appear in historic record another millennia later.
> 
> But does that address your insistence on racial framing of Jews?



The Akkadians, Amorites, Edomites and Midianites were all Arabs.  Are Jews a race?


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

This is very, very typical and mainstream Palestinian fantasy of history and the Israeli Jewish mindset.  From Sawalief (Jordan):




> Giving from those who do not own to those who do not deserve the Balfour Promise , the British Foreign Minister in 1917 AD sought to rid Britain  of the evil, malice and deceit of the Jews by establishing a home for them away from Europe in Palestine if Britain would win the First World War on the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> When the war ended , Britain occupied Palestine and colonized it, and began deporting Jews to it from every country until they multiplied in it.
> 
> Britain armed them, so they formed armed terrorist gangs such as the Haganah, the Palmach, and the Irgun to frighten and terrorize the defenseless Palestinians of the land.
> 
> Gradually and with the malicious British methods that met with the evil Jewish methods, Britain succeeded in establishing a state for the Jews in 1948 on a part of the land of Palestine, including the Palestinian coastal plain, by transforming the Haganah gang and its armed terrorist sisters into a state they called “Israel”.
> 
> After that, Britain and its aides continued to invite Jews and foundlings from various care homes in Europe to immigrate to Palestine. Then, with theatrical wars, the emerging Jewish state was able to control all parts of Palestine after it killed those who killed and displaced those who were displaced from the Palestinian people.
> 
> Since then and until today, the invading Jews live in a state of constant war in which terror possesses them day and night, as each one of them expects to be killed tomorrow morning, either by being crushed, trampled, or stabbed, or by a heart attack for fear and panic or by stampede when they flee to the shelters in which they spend half their lives.
> 
> This is because those of the Palestinian people who remained in their land and homeland, Palestine, swear by God, the Most High, the Great, that the invaders will not be happy to live in their country, and they will not feel safe no matter how long it takes.
> 
> The settlers who fled to the shelters are nothing but evidence of the success of this great Palestinian section, which is now being passed down to the new generations.
> 
> Therefore, we advise Britain to search again for another safer homeland for her Jews.













						A crazed - and typical - Arab history of Zionism
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

19th century Arab Palestine was a bunch of squabbling groups who hated each other​





Some claim that the Palestinian people have existed for centuries. Here is an account of what Southern Syria (what Arabs called Palestine) was really like in the 19th century, from an 1883 article in the Fortnightly Review by  Captain C. R. Conder, about how absurd the idea of a unified Palestinian Arab population was:




> Why do not these oppressed subjects of a foreign power [Turkey] help themselves to liberty? There are, it is true, perhaps only a dozen real Turks in the country, for the Pashas even are Kurds, Armenians, or Europeans. Yet to expect a national rebellion is to argue a great want of acquaintance with Oriental character. The power of combination for a common object is unknown in Eastern communities. Arabi's army might — so some of his officers said — have deserted en masse if any one of them had been able to trust another with his real wishes. To the peasant, the village faction appears more important than any national league, and the Turk knows well how to rule by dividing. Southern Palestine, within the memory of living men, was divided into two fierce factions — the Keis, who seem to have been mainly the original peasantry on the west, and the Yemini, allied with the Eastern Arabs, who were pushing northwards from Yemen. The battles fought between these factions are yet related by the village elders, and much courage and daring was then exhibited by the peasantry.
> 
> In Jerusalem itself, three of these factions still divide the Moslem population. The Hoseini, in the middle of the town, are the most powerful ; the Khaldi occupy the east quarter ; the despised Jauni abide among the Jews on the south. A Hoseini mother would rather see her daughter die unwedded than suffer her to take a Jauni husband. The same survival of faction I have traced in many other towns of Palestine, and the division of these Moslem parties, even in the petty villages, is almost as great as that which separates the Moslem from the Arab Christian, Latin, Greek, or Maronite. It is by fostering such ancient enmities, and by playing the Druze against the Maronite, the Arab against his elder brother, the Greek against the Latin, that the Turk retains his power over the numerous sects which are found in Syria. It was the same spirit of disunion which in older days gave birth to fifty Gnostic sects in the Holy Land, and which created the twelve Christian creeds which are now to be found side by side in Jerusalem.
> 
> The same spirit of disunion exists also among the Bedawin, and, indeed, manifested itself among the early conquerors of Islam as soon as their prophet was dead. Recent events in Egypt and Sinai have not shown us the "noble Arab," in whom we have been told we are to place our trust, in a very favourable light ; and the student of history, whether in Omar's time or in the days of Napoleon, will find that the Bedawin have never fulfilled the expectations of their admirers, and have rarely evinced any great nobility of character. As allies no nation could be more unsatisfactory. They skulked over the Kassassin battle-field to rob and mutilate the dead ; they took money to murder Englishmen who trusted to their reputation for good faith ; and they stole a few cows from the British camp. They never took a side heartily for or against Arabi, and they deserted him at his need. Truly, the noble Arab is not found either in Moab, in Sinai, or in Egypt; and we may well question if he exists in Arabia, for those who know the Syrian Arabs well say that the Nejed and Yemen tribes differ only in being fiercer and more warlike ; while as regards the Sakhur and the Anezeh and other large clans who are more remote from European influence than the Belka Bedawin, it has been my experience that they only differ in being greater savages, more ignorant, crafty, and unreliable than those who know better the power of the West. Truly, one is tempted to regard the noble Arab as " an extinct race which never existed."



This is the history that has been excised from not only Arab but Western textbooks as well. 

(I had excerpted much more from this article in 2008.)










						19th century Arab Palestine was a bunch of squabbling groups who hated each other
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

The Jerusalem bureau chief not only avoided mentioning that the Temple Mount is Judaism’s *holiest* site but he demonstrated a profound, overall ignorance of the centrality of the Temple Mount to Judaism, simplistically relegating its importance to having been the site, once upon a time, of two temples.   

In fact, the Jewish temples were built on what was the epicenter of Judaism, the foundation stone (_Even Hashtiya_) upon which the world was created. The Divine Presence (_Shechina_) is believed to rest here and it is therefore the site where the biblical Isaac was brought for sacrifice, where the Holy of Holies and Ark of the Covenant housing the Ten Commandments once stood, and subsequently where the Jewish Temple was built and then rebuilt.  The Temple Mount is the holiest site in Judaism, revered by Jews for millennia.  It is the focus of their prays and the site of Jewish pilgrimage, just as Mecca is Islam’s holiest site and the site of Muslim pilgrimage.

The derogation of the Jewish claim to the Temple Mount as simply “important” in contrast to the portrayal of the Muslim claim as “third holiest” cannot be explained entirely by Kingsley’s ignorance of Judaism and history. Nor is it the first time he and other _New York Times_ staff have diminished Judaism’s claim to its holiest site.  It is part of a political advocacy campaign of journalists that diminish Judaism’s claim to its holiest site while elevating the Muslim one (as explained further below).

When Did the Depreciation of Judaism’s Holiest Site Begin?​The centrality of Jerusalem and the Temple Mount to the Jewish nation is well documented and has been historically and globally recognized for millennia by people of all faiths.   



For example, a 1924 English-language tourist guide to the Temple Mount put out by the Supreme Moslem Council, entitled “A Brief Guide to al-Haram al-Sharif” stated:



> The site is one of the oldest in the world. Its sanctity dates from the earliest times. Its identity with the site of Solomon’s Temple [built by the Jewish/Israelite King Solomon] is beyond dispute. This, too, is the spot, according to universal belief, on which David [King David was Solomon’s father and predecessor] built there an altar unto the Lord, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings.


But Muslim acknowledgement of the historic, religious and emotional bonds of Jews to their holiest site changed when Jerusalem came under Israel’s control in the 1967 war. Palestinian and Muslim leaders began to revise history in order to expunge the Jewish connection to the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, and indeed all of Israel. During the July 2000 negotiations at Camp David, Yasir Arafat refused to acknowledge Jewish ties to the Temple Mount, claiming the Jewish Temple never existed there. Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas denies that Jewish Temples ever existed on the Temple Mount, much less that it is Judaism’s holiest site. Palestinian and Muslim religious, political and academic leaders have followed suit, weighing in to describe Jewish history in Jerusalem and on the Temple Mount as “delusional,” “fictitious,” and “imaginary.”

In recent years, the Palestinian Authority upped its efforts to change the narrative about Jerusalem.  It turned to international bodies and the Western media to help efface Jewish history and the validity of Jewish claims to Judaism’s holiest city and sites.  Multiple resolutions were introduced in UNESCO challenging the Temple Mount’s Jewish history and declaring “Muslims’ full right over the historical and religious site.” The Palestinians also initiated and succeeded in having the UN Security Council adopt a controversial resolution (UNSC 2334) that labelled all of eastern Jerusalem captured by Israel in 1967 ― which includes the Temple Mount, Western Wall, Old City, Jewish quarter and Jewish holy sites ― “Palestinian territory.”

In 2014, the Palestinian Authority sent out an advisory to journalists, telling them to replace the term “Temple Mount” with “Al Aqsa” compound. This was followed by a broader directive to journalists in 2015, warning them to emphasize that “the Al-Aqsa Mosque Compound is under Israeli Occupation just as the rest of East Jerusalem,” that “Israel has effectively changed Al-Aqsa’s Status Quo,” and that Israel was “in violation of international law” – all false propaganda.

(full article online)









						The Media Erodes the Jewish Claim to Jerusalem and the Temple Mount, with the New York Times Leading the Way
					

The Western media has increasingly abetted Palestinian propaganda efforts to erase the Jewish claim to Jerusalem and the Temple Mount. Far too many journalists




					www.camera.org


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## Sixties Fan

Over the years, states, leaders, international organizations, and the international and Israeli media have developed a tendency to endlessly repeat certain internationally recognizable catchphrases and buzzwords with the aim of dictating and influencing a distinct, partisan political narrative against Israel.

This tendency is becoming a permanent phenomenon and increasingly obstructs any genuine attempt to achieve reconciliation between the Palestinian and Israeli peoples.

The repetition of such phrases and terms in all and any discussion and reporting of events and developments in the context of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute is legally inaccurate and blatantly misleading.

While such uses may emanate from ignorance as to the genuine meaning of such phrases and buzzwords and the actual facts and legal background of the various issues, it is more likely that they are deliberately intended to mislead the public.

The following are several examples of such false, misleading, and malicious catchphrases and buzzwords.

(full article online)









						False and Malicious Catchphrases and Buzzwords in the Israeli-Palestinian Context
					

“The State of Palestine, illegal occupation, settler violence, and 1967 borders” are all misused and false terms. - False and Malicious Catchphrases and Buzzwords in the Israeli-Palestinian Context




					jcpa.org


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## Indeependent

Sixties Fan said:


> Over the years, states, leaders, international organizations, and the international and Israeli media have developed a tendency to endlessly repeat certain internationally recognizable catchphrases and buzzwords with the aim of dictating and influencing a distinct, partisan political narrative against Israel.
> 
> This tendency is becoming a permanent phenomenon and increasingly obstructs any genuine attempt to achieve reconciliation between the Palestinian and Israeli peoples.
> 
> The repetition of such phrases and terms in all and any discussion and reporting of events and developments in the context of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute is legally inaccurate and blatantly misleading.
> 
> While such uses may emanate from ignorance as to the genuine meaning of such phrases and buzzwords and the actual facts and legal background of the various issues, it is more likely that they are deliberately intended to mislead the public.
> 
> The following are several examples of such false, misleading, and malicious catchphrases and buzzwords.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> False and Malicious Catchphrases and Buzzwords in the Israeli-Palestinian Context
> 
> 
> “The State of Palestine, illegal occupation, settler violence, and 1967 borders” are all misused and false terms. - False and Malicious Catchphrases and Buzzwords in the Israeli-Palestinian Context
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jcpa.org


They have failed as Israel's economy is booming to the point where one has to be a multi-multi-millionaire to afford to live there.


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## Sixties Fan

Abbas’s remarks in Berlin on Tuesday, accusing Israel of carrying out “50 holocausts” against the Palestinians, are the pernicious, logical culmination of the false narrative he set out in his 1982 People’s Friendship University of Russia doctoral thesis, which in turn shaped his failed leadership.

As published in book form in 1984, he sought to minimize the scale of the Holocaust, writing, according to a translation by the Simon Wiesenthal Center, “It is possible that the number of Jewish victims reached six million, but at the same time it is possible that the figure is much smaller – below one million.” And he blamed the Zionists for such murders as did take place, claiming that Zionist leaders gave “permission to every racist in the world, led by Hitler and the Nazis, to treat Jews as they wish, so long as it guarantees immigration to Palestine… More victims meant greater rights and stronger privilege [for Zionist leaders] to join the negotiation table for dividing the spoils of war once it was over.”

Four years ago, in a speech in Ramallah, Abbas amended and expanded his inflammatory falsification of history, to allege that the Holocaust was caused by the Jews’ “social behavior, [charging] interest, and financial matters.” As for Zionists, Israelis and Israel itself, the Palestinian leader pronounced, “Their narrative about coming to this country because of their longing for Zion, or whatever — we’re tired of hearing this. The truth is that this is a colonialist enterprise, aimed at planting a foreign body in this region.”

“It’s classic antisemitism,” and “classic blame the victim,” Deborah Lipstadt, the scholar who in 2000 had triumphed in a libel suit brought against her by British Holocaust denier David Irving, told The Times of Israel after that May 2018 Abbas speech. “This brings one back directly to his dissertation, to his distortion of history.”

Four years later, Abbas is unrepentant, and Lipstadt, now the US special envoy to combat antisemitism, is again calling him out for his unacceptable antisemitism.

Four years later, too, the “latter stages of his career” linger on, and the man who inherited Arafat’s narrative demonizing and delegitimizing Israel continues his foul revisionism, seeking to stir up hostility, and by extension violence, against the Jews and their state, and thus continuing to stave off the process of interaction and negotiation he claims to seek to enable Palestinian independence.

In his very same nauseating Berlin appearance, Abbas ludicrously professed himself committed to building trust and achieving a peaceful solution to the conflict with Israel. “Please come to peace,” he implored. “Please come to security, let’s build trust between us and you.”

But like Arafat before him, the current Palestinian leader is the biggest obstacle to his people’s ambitions and interests. “Let’s build trust,” he urged. But trust is a function of confidence. It requires mutual good faith. And it is founded on truth.

In our perilous reality, trust simply will not, cannot be built with a man who has failed our people and his own because of his manifest lifelong incapacity, his refusal, to acknowledge and come to terms with Jewish history — ancient and modern, in Israel and in exile.











						Mahmoud Abbas’s lifelong falsification of Jewish history
					

The PA president's remarks in Berlin reconfirm his abiding rejection of Jewish history - ancient and modern, in Israel and in exile. It's why he has failed his people and ours




					www.timesofisrael.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

This was predictable.

Columnist Hamada al-Farana at Jordanian news site Ad Dustor writes:



> The Palestinian Arab people were the most affected peoples in the whole world from the results of the Nazi fascist European massacres against the Jews for several fundamental reasons:


Get out the popcorn. 


> First, because we, as Arabs, Muslims and Christians, our culture does not allow us to accept collective punishments against humans, and *to treat them with contempt, hatred, or hostility,* on the basis of *religion, nationalism, sect, or their positions and convictions.*


That's great! That means that they do not hate Jewish Zionists because of their nationalism, positions or convictions!
Ummm... 


> Secondly, because Jews and Judaism are part of our Arab people and nation. Judaism is one of the monotheistic religions that complements Christianity and Islam, even if the diligence and diversity differ among them. *The difference between Jews and Judaism on one side and the Zionist movement on the other, is the difference between Islam and Muslims from the two organizations Al-Qaeda and ISIS.*


Well, only a slight contradiction between two adjoining paragraphs. 


> Thirdly, the Palestinians paid a heavy price because of the Holocaust, as Zionism and the colonial countries of Europe exploited the Nazi massacres against the Jews, and worked to displace and resettle them in Palestine, and to establish a Jewish state for them on the land of the Palestinian people...
> 
> Fourth, and this is the most important, that *the Palestinians paid the price of the European massacres of the Jews, *so Palestine was colonized, half of its people were expelled outside their homeland, and they were subjected to displacement and exile, and massacres were committed against them.


Yup. The biggest victims of the Holocaust wasn't six million Jews, but the Palestinians whose leader supported the Nazis. 


> For these reasons, we sympathize with the tragedy of the Jews in Europe, and we reject, as Arabs, Muslims and Christians with the Palestinians, those Nazi fascist crimes against the Jews, just as we reject and condemn, at the same time, *with the same force,*the massacres of the Israeli colony and its daily crimes against the Palestinian people, including killing, destruction, persecution, besieging and starvation.


I like the "starvation" part. I haven't found any examples but it can't hurt to throw that in. 


> And just as the civilized international community did by chasing down the chased down the Nazis and prosecuted them for what they did against the Jews, the leaders of the international community and human rights institutions, and those with living consciences should try Israeli criminals in accordance with fair values and human rights, and not to evade just and equitable punishment.
> 
> What the Palestinian President said, what he expressed, and what he meant, is the core of the bitter truth that needs to be addressed by the European and German people.



So we have Holocaust minimization, Holocaust distortion and Holocaust inversion, as mainstream Arab political opinion.

Hamada al-Farana is a former minister of Jordanian parliament and has been a member of the Palestinian National Council since 1984.











						Jordanian news site: Palestinians were the biggest victims of the Holocaust, and Jews are today's Nazis
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

As we've been showing, Mahmoud Abbas' outrageous antisemitism in Germany is prompting lots of Palestinians and Arab pundits to let fly their own Holocaust denial and antisemitism.

This example, from Ali Mohsen Hamid at Rai al-Youm, tries to prove that according to Chaim Weizmann, there were only six million Jews in all of Europe before the Holocaust, so therefore six million Jews cannot have died and it is all a Zionist lie.

Hamid quotes Weizmann testifying at the Peel Commission hearings, saying, "six million people pent up in places where they are not wanted, and for whom the world is divided into places where they cannot live, and places into which they may not enter."

He then quotes Weizmann at the UNSCOP hearings on Palestine in Lake Success, NY in 1947 where he says that six million Jews were murdered in the Holocaust - and uses this "contradiction" to claim that Weizmann made up the six million number out of thin air.

The Peel Commission quote is accurate - and incomplete.Weizmann was only speaking about Jews in specific parts of Europe where their rights were severely restricted, and he specifically excluded the Jews in Russia and Western Europe. In his address, he said:




> *Poland* has slightly over three millions: *Germany*had in 1932 or 1933 something like 600,000, but that number has since diminished. If one goes further afield, and rakes the Jewries of *Rumania, Latvia, Lithuania, Austria*. one sees practically the same picture, and it is no exaggeration on my part to say that today almost six million Jews in that part of the world are doomed to be pent up in places where they are not wanted, and for whom the world is divided into places where they cannot live, and places into which they cannot enter.
> Q. Did I gather from you that you thought the conditions which you mention as applying to Poland, apply equally to these *other European countries you have mentioned?*
> A. With the exception of certain small groups. one may say almost equally.
> Sir Laurie Hammond: Is it the case with Russia?
> A. *I am not speaking of Russia,* which is closed. As you were good enough to ask me, I will say a word about Russia. In Russia there are about three million Jews. We have very little contact with them. Russia is a closed country at present. ...



Based on this map, and assuming that Weizmann was also including countries like Hungary and Czechoslovakia, the six million number is reasonably accurate. 






Hamid is obviously not interested in the truth. The rest of the article is filled with similar lies, like the laughable claim that BDS only wants to boycott products from the territories. He tries to say that Einstein's Theory of Relativity means that one can compare the Holocaust to Palestinian suffering without being antisemitic. 

But anti-Israel propagandists will take a tiny grain of truth and extend it into the realm of fantasy, knowing that their audience will be impressed and wants to believe them as long as it aligns with their prejudice.











						"Chaim Weizmann made up the myth of 6 million Jews killed"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

In an August 26 guest essay for The New York Times, titled ‘_Has the Fight Against Antisemitism Lost Its Way?_,‘ Peter Beinart ignores serious ongoing concerns about the veracity of reports by Amnesty International and Human Rights Watchto argue that today’s battle against antisemitism has “become a threat to freedom” since many of the American Jewish leaders who are waging it have also condemned the demonization of Israel by these same organizations.

To drive home his point, Beinart lumps the Middle East’s only viable democracywith some of the world’s worst human rights violators, including China, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.

But while Peter Beinart is entitled to his bizarre opinions, he’s not entitled to his own facts. There are several points where The New York Times, as the publisher of the opinion piece, should have amended gross inaccuracies stated by Beinart about Israel.

Confused Beinart: Israel’s Survival Is a ‘Conquest’​According to Beinart, American Jewish attitudes towards Israel, which at one point were more critical of the Jewish state, “…began to change after the 1967 war. Israel’s conquest of the West Bank and Gaza Strip made it master over roughly a million stateless Palestinians.”

In fact, Beinart’s “conquest” was a preemptive war of survival. In 1967, Arab armies massed on Israel’s borders with the intent to attack and destroy the Jewish state. Egypt had closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping; an act of war.

Only then did Israel launch a successful strike on Egypt, which led to an all-out war with Egypt and Syria. While Israel appealed to Jordan to not join the fighting from the east, the country nevertheless attacked, expecting a swift Arab victory.

More Beinart Confusion: Erasing Israel Is ‘Equal Citizenship’​Another linguistic sleight of hand is Beinart’s description of a parliamentary motion to erase the Jewish character of Israel as an attempt by Palestinian members of the Knesset to obtain “equal citizenship” for their constituents. Beinart doubles down on his assertion, backing it up with the thoroughly debunked findings of Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch:



> Most Palestinians exist as second-class citizens in Israel proper or as stateless noncitizens in the territories Israel occupied in 1967 or live beyond Israel’s borders. But under the definition of antisemitism promoted by the Anti-Defamation League, the American Jewish Committee and the State Department, Palestinians become antisemites if they call for replacing a state that favors Jews with one that does not discriminate based on ethnicity or religion.”


With regards to Palestinian citizens, Israel is a country where Arabs serve as Supreme Court justices, fighter pilots, Members of Knesset, artists, athletes. Everything that Israelis do, Arab Israelis do.

This is because Israel’s Basic Laws and independent judiciary form the basis of a democratic state for all groups, including ethnic minorities.

So when Palestinians call for “replacing a state,” as Beinart writes, they are in reality advocating for the liquidation of a country whose legislation and court system have combatted any manifestation of discrimination — with the goal of guaranteeing equal rights for all.

Indeed, Israel is a country ranked above Italy, Spain, and the United States in a respected global index of democratic values.

And even though Beinart correctly calls attention to the plight of Palestinians who live “beyond Israel’s borders,” he omits the source of their suffering.

Since the signing of the Oslo Accords in the 1990s, the vast majority of Palestinians have been governed by either the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank or Hamas — considered a terrorist group by most Western countries — in Gaza. The PA, specifically, was created with the support of the international community, with Palestinian leaders agreeing to adopt partial _autonomy_ while granting Israel security control in some disputed areas.

But instead of choosing freedom, Ramallah is increasingly cracking down on its own people. Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has been implementing measures that could turn the PA into a dictatorship, according to a new report.

(full article online)










						Peter Beinart in New York Times: Fighting Antisemitism Strengthens 'Apartheid' Israel | Honest Reporting
					

Beinart lumps the Middle East's only democracy with some of the world's worst % rights violators, including China, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.




					honestreporting.com


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## Sixties Fan

In early August, Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), an Islamist terrorist group based in the Gaza Strip, fired more than a thousand rockets into Israeli population centers, attempting to kill and injure as many Israelis as possible.

Although the rockets have quieted as a result of an Egyptian-mediated ceasefire, Israel continues to face a barrage of disinformation, seemingly without respite.

One notable recent example is an August 24 article, originally produced by New Canadian Media, and then published by Village Media, which syndicated the story to its local publications across Canada.

The article entitled: “Palestinians accuse Canada of having a double standard on Israel,” by reporter Diary Marif, was replete with statements from interviewees alleging falsehoods against Israel, with no context or critique provided by Marif, who also repeated deeply problematic phraseology referring to Israeli counter-terrorism actions. This is not at all surprising given that Marif *alleged on Twitter* that Israel commits “brutality in Palestine” and that “Canada is silent on Israeli aggression in Palestine yet it’s quick to condemn Russia’s attack on Ukraine.”

For example, throughout the article, Marif serves to subtly challenge Israel’s rationale for defending itself against PIJ assaults, but fails to offer such challenges to Palestinian interviewees.

Marif writes that with Israel’s activities against PIJ, “it claimed thwarted alleged planned rocket attacks,” casting doubt on Israel’s claims, and neglecting to interview any Israeli subject for the article. However, when describing Israeli counter-terrorism operations, Marif uses terms to describe them such as “brutality,” “assaults” or “bombardments,” and never puts context to problematic claims made by Palestinian interviewees.

Marif quotes one interview subject, Mark Ayyash, as saying “We are a people who have not forgotten, and will never forget, the lands from which we were expelled and continue to be expelled.”

Given Marif’s repeated tacit challenges of Israel’s claims, it is surprising to see no pushback against Ayyash for such a remarkable claim, that of Israeli expulsions against Palestinians, both historical and current.

But despite the allegations lobbed against it, Ayyash provides no evidence for his superlative assertion. In truth, Israel is not expelling Palestinians today, nor has Israel done so historically. In 1948, when Israel declared its independence and was almost immediately attacked by neighbouring Arab countries attempting to destroy the nascent state, a significant number of Arabs in Israel left at the behest of Arab leaders.

In contrast, contemporaneously, nearly 800,000 Jews were exiled from their homes in Muslim-majority countries, including Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Egypt, Syria and Morocco. Facing state-sponsored persecution and governments turning a blind eye to widespread antisemitism, these Jewish refugees – despite their traumatic experiences – receive tragically little recognition.

This convenient historical omission is unsurprising coming from Mark Ayyash. Ayyash, an associate professor at the University of Calgary, has previously written anti-Israel disinformation for Al Jazeera, namely accusing Israel of being a “settler colonial” state.

Ayyash continues his campaign of fiction in his remarks to Marif, when he argues “Israel is part of the Euro-American imperial hegemony, it was created as a settler colony in Palestine.”

To this allegation, one is reminded of a phrase by the late writer Christopher Hitchens, who argued that ‘what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.’ There is no logic to the contention that Israel is a tool of imperial hegemony or that is a settler colony. In fact, the truth is the exact opposite. Israel, as the nation-state of the Jewish People, is the very epitome of anti-colonialism, being home to roughly half of the world’s Jewish population, who are indisputably indigenous to the Land of Israel for the last three thousand years.

To claim Israel is a settler outpost is not a difference of opinion; it is an assault on objective truth.

Marif also quotes one interviewee, who compares Israel to Russia’s February 2022 invasion of Ukraine, and demands that the international community condemn the Jewish State for its “attacks on Gaza.”

The interviewee, Michael Bueckert, serves as vice president of Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East (CJPME), an organization that has endorsed the one-state solution, the de facto elimination of Israel as a state.

While interview subjects may make non-sequiturs in their conversations with reporters, the duty of a journalist is to not merely be a stenographer for disinformation but to provide meaningful discourse. The comparison of Israeli counter-terror measures in Gaza to the Russo-Ukraine war is devoid of any logic and parallel and there is no merit to it being covered in the piece.

While ostensibly a straightforward reporting of local reactions to the recent conflict between Israel and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Marif’s article at times read more like a sophomoric column throwing every conceivable accusation at Israel, in the hope that something sticks. But Village Media is a legitimate publication serving multiple communities across Canada, and this article only serves to muddy the truth of an already complex conflict.










						Village Media Chain Publishes Interviews With Noted Anti-Israel Activists Who Spew Disinformation
					

In early August, Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), an Islamist terrorist group based in the Gaza Strip, fired more than a




					honestreporting.ca


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## Sixties Fan




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## rylah

*Arab desecration of the Temple Mount continues in plain view*

Beyadenu on Monday revealed that the desecration of the Temple Mount continues, only several days after 9 B’Av, when we commemorated the destruction of our Temples.







Tom Nisani, CEO of Beyadenu for the Temple Mount said: “Following the documented soccer games around the Temple Mount and the desecration of its antiquities, now comes the next phase in turning the sacred compound into the Arabs’ playground. After we understood the Temple Mount isn’t as valuable to them, it’s time that the State of Israel starts enforcing its sovereignty in the holiest place in the world and decides if it wants to control it. It is another devastating and absurd sight of waste disposal in the holiest place in the world. A shame on the Jewish people.”









						Watch: Waqf Truck Unloads Garbage inside the Temple mount
					

Needless to say, pouring heaps of garbage openly, in broad daylight, is the least of the damage and desecration caused by this inherently antisemitic group.




					www.jewishpress.com


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## Sixties Fan

[ It just gets more and more vile ]

On top of monitoring Canada’s media in both of our nation’s official languages, English and French, HonestReporting Canada also scrutinizes Canadian Arabic-language news for its reporting and commentary that engages in antisemitism and anti-Israel activism.

In recent weeks, we’ve exposed and condemned Mississauga-based Arabic news outlet Meshwar, whose editor *uttered the antisemitic dual loyalties slur*, and the paper itself for *peddling antisemitic propaganda* and for *featuring a column that called for Israel’s destruction.*

This hateful trend continued on August 18, when *Meshwar Media published an article on its website* by Editor Nazih Khattaba which claimed that the Israeli Mossad carried out the massacre of 11 Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics games in 1972.

Khattaba wrote the following:



> “Those who carried out the massacre of the Israeli athletes in Munich [in 1972] were not [Palestinian] President [Mahmoud] Abbas, nor the Black September Organization [BSO – Palestinian terrorist group affiliated with Fatah movement],





> but the Israeli Mossad squad and the German police that stormed their place of detention. This group [BSO] wanted to swap them [Israeli athletes hostages] for the release of Palestinian prisoners in the occupation [Israel] prisons.”


HonestReporting Canada has independently verified the translation of Nazih Khatatba’s words from the original Arabic.

Importantly, German forces exclusively carried out the rescue operation. Neither the Israeli Mossad nor Israeli troops participated in any military attempt to release the hostages and it was the Palestinian terrorists from the Black September group that killed the Israeli athletes.

Importantly, the *International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA)*considers a statement as being antisemitic when: “Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.”

*Unfounded allegations like this have the potential to fan the flames of hatred against Canadian Jewry and the State of Israel. It’s incumbent upon Canadians from coast to coast to forcefully condemn Meshwar for making this antisemitic allegation. Please share our alert and take to social media to name and shame Meshwar for making the inflammatory, unsubstantiated and antisemitic allegation that the Israeli Mossad was responsible for the massacre of 11 Israeli athletes at the 1972 Olympic Games in Munich, Germany.*











						Ontario Arabic Media Claims Israeli Mossad Massacred Israeli Athletes At Munich Olympics
					

On top of monitoring Canada’s media in both of our nation’s official languages, English and French, HonestReporting Canada also scrutinizes




					honestreporting.ca


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

According to the Palestinian Authority, Jews have no historical connection to the Land of Israel. To support the assertion, the PA argues that archaeological artifacts that unequivocally prove this connection are fake. The Palestinians on the other hand, so claims the PA, are actually a 4,500 year-old people who are descendants of the Canaanites. 

There is no honest way to deny the Jewish connection to the Land of Israel. Tens of thousands (if not more) of archaeological artifacts prove that connection. When the international community allocated the whole of Israel, in 1922, for the reconstitution of the Jewish homeland, they recognized that historical connection. When the Supreme Muslim Council wanted to describe the Temple Mount, it noted that “This site is one of the oldest in the world. Its sanctity dates from the earliest (perhaps from pre-historic) times. Its identity with the site of Solomon’s Temple is beyond dispute.” 

In order to explain away and negate the historical Jewish connection to Israel, the PA has invented an entire alternative reality. In the PA reality, Jews/Israelis have no history, and therefore they try to “steal” the Palestinian identity. The Jews, according to the PA, try to steal Palestinian foods and clothes, and even plant historical Jewish coins at excavation sites in order to invent a false history:  



















> *Writer and poet Faiqa Al-Sous:* “[The Israelis] wanted to market the falafel to the world as if it was theirs… They have no heritage, no history or heritage. They attempt to steal our heritage…”
> *Official PA TV host:* “They are attempting to market the Palestinian people’s heritage and the Palestinian garb as if it were part of the Israeli heritage and that they have a place here in this land. Even in the excavations under the Al-Aqsa Mosque and everywhere, they try to place some coins, as if [to say]: ‘Here, we found coins, and this land is ours.’ These are ongoing attempts at falsification.”
> *Faiqa Al-Sous: *“They lie. They know they’re lying and the world knows they’re lying… Look at the evil world, we whose narrative is reliable must not publish it, while they spread the false narrative, the false narrative of the occupation.”
> [Official PA TV, _Returning_, July 16, 2022]


The goal behind the false PA narrative is to convince the Palestinians that Jews are merely colonizers who came to inhabit a land to which they have no historical connection. This claim enables the PA to persuade the Palestinians that the Jews are simply thieves who stole “Palestinian land”.  

However, for the PA narrative to be effective, it not only needs to negate the Jewish connection to Israel, but it also needs to invent the “Palestinian” historical connection that dates back thousands of years and provides the Palestinians with a history older than that of the Jews. To do so, the PA has even established the “Palestinian Clothing Day” to celebrate the Palestinian national dress, which it claims proves the Palestinian presence in the area going “*back to the Canaanite period*”: 



> “The Palestinians mark Palestinian Clothing Day every year on July 25, in accordance with [PA] President Mahmoud Abbas’ decision on Aug. 1, 2018…
> *Clothing Day was established to preserve the ancestors’ history and protect it from theft and the Judaization that the Israeli occupation is carrying out… *
> Palestinian clothing is one of the main supporting pillars that shape the Palestinian cultural identity, and it is witness to the *Palestinian presence whose roots on this land go back to the Canaanite period. *
> According to the historians, some of the shapes and images that were woven into the Canaanite royal garments (the queen’s garb) [parentheses in source] are the same ones that exist today [in the Palestinian women’s clothing]. Something that draws attention in most of the Palestinian women’s clothing is the octagonal star. This is a Canaanite star whose roots go back to 4500 BCE. This star represented ‘the goddess of fertility’ among our Canaanite ancestors.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, July 26, 2022]


When the PA refers to the “historians,” it is clearly not referring to Palestinian Historian Abd Al-Ghani Salameh, who explained that even as late as 1917 there was no Palestinian people: 











> *Abd Al-Ghani Salameh:* "Before the Balfour Promise (i.e., Declaration) when the Ottoman rule ended (1517-1917), *Palestine's political borders as we know them today did not exist*, and *there was nothing called a Palestinian people* with a political identity as we know today, since Palestine's lines of administrative division stretched from east to west and included Jordan and southern Lebanon, and like all peoples of the region [the Palestinians] were liberated from the Turkish rule and immediately moved to colonial rule, without forming a Palestinian people's political identity."
> [Official PA TV, Nov. 1, 2017]


The fact of the matter is that the Palestinians have no history prior to the modern period and no connection to the Canaanites. Had this ancient Palestinian-Canaanite people actually existed, it would certainly have been able to show centuries of history and culture. It would certainly have been mentioned in historical documents and would have certainly appeared in contemporary documents such as the 1922 League of Nations Mandate for Palestine, the 1947 UN Partition Plan and even UN Security Council Resolution 242 which the Palestinians often refer to as the basis for their false claim that Israel is occupying “Palestinian territory.”  

The fact that none of the above mentioned documents make any reference to a “Palestinian people”, let alone a 4,500 year-old Palestinian people, does not bother the PA. For the PA, in the absence of any real history, all you have to do is make it up.  











						When you lack any history, just invent one | PMW Analysis
					

To invent History




					palwatch.org


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## Sixties Fan

In response to yet another idiot claiming the British Mandate coin proves "Palestine"


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian-American stand-up comedian Mohammed (Mo) Amer is the star of a new eponymous show on Netflix, which has been hailed for bringing to light the experience of Palestinian immigrants in the U.S.

While Amer’s series features a not unsympathetic Israeli character and even addresses antisemitism, the popular comic recently used his platform to promote a popular, yet demonstrably false, talking point in Palestinian propaganda.

“Being Palestinian…Jesus was Palestinian, from Nazareth. This is a crazy overlooked fact,” Amer claimed in a recent interview with the Los Angeles Times. Amer made the comment in reference to a scene in which his character “walks into a Catholic Church at the urging of his Mexican American girlfriend, Maria (played by Teresa Ruiz), and gives confession to a priest played by local rapper Bun B.”

The founder of Christianity, Jesus, was of course not a “Palestinian” as the term is understood vis a vis Amer’s ethnicity. According to the historical record, this figure was born to a Jewish mother living in a land called Judea, an area that Jews to this day call Judea.

“The absurdity of [the claim that Jesus was Palestinian] is breathtaking,” commented Rabbi Abraham Cooper, associate and director of Global Social Action Agenda at the Simon Wiesenthal Center, in a 2019 interview with the Jewish Journal. “Jesus was born in Bethlehem, think about who his parents were — his mother, Mary, was betrothed to Joseph, a carpenter. In the Gospels, there is no mention of Palestine, only Judea, which is where Jews lived.”

Cooper made the remarks after U.S. Rep. Ilhan Omar, who has a lengthy history of antisemitic statements, retweeted a New York Times op-ed suggesting Jesus’ “Palestinian” ethnicity.

Furthermore, Arabs living in the Land of Israel did not even begin to start identifying as “Palestinian” until the 20th century. Even so-called Palestinian historians and politicians admit this fact.
-----
Cooper, for his part, expounded on the motive for the Jesus-was-Palestinian myth, noting, “For people who have no theological or historical rooting, the idea that Jesus was a Palestinian creates a new narrative for Palestinian history, which otherwise does not date back very far. If one can say that Jesus was Palestinian 2,000 years ago, then that means the Jews are occupying Palestinian land.”

Cooper added that for people who “don’t like Jews to begin with, it is a deadly combination of the Jews killed Jesus and now they are doing the same to his progeny. From a political and propaganda point of view, there is something to be gained.”

(full article online)









						‘Jesus-was-Palestinian’ Lie Spread by Star of Netflix Show | United with Israel
					

Palestinian propaganda frequently includes the ridiculous claim that the founder of Christianity, who was a Jew living in Judea, was 'Palestinian.'




					unitedwithisrael.org


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## Sixties Fan

Abdullah Al-Ashaal is a former Egyptian presidential candidate and former assistant to the Egyptian Foreign Minister. He calls himself an "ambassador" although I am not sure if he ever held such a position.

His anti-Zionist credentials are impeccable - he argues, today, that Egypt should abrogate the 1977 peace treaty with Israel.

It is no surprise that he is also a raging antisemite,  the type of antisemite that the media and the Left doesn't want to acknowledge because it comes from Arabs.

In Rai Al Youm, he starts off an article with a list of "facts" that is as good a summary of mainstream Arab antisemitic beliefs as any I've seen:




> 1. Israel was built on myths and lies, and its relationship with Palestine is based on falsifying history and the Torah. Therefore, supporting Israel became a biblical duty for them.
> 
> 2. The Jews control minds by monopolizing news sources and the media, as the Zionist project tamed the Arab media so as not to reveal the facts, benefiting from the fact that the Arab media is the media of the Arab regimes and governments, and when the Arab countries are divided over Israel, the Arab media is divided, as is electronic media. This is why websites spread and Israel agrees with the Arab regimes in silencing the Arab voice, chasing down and blocking websites. It has become a struggle between those who struggle for freedom of expression and Israel who blurs the facts and spreada lies and fraud.
> 
> 3. The Zionist project monopolized the media, including social media, and imposed on it the prevention of awakening European and Arab public opinion to Israel's crimes.
> 
> 4. European politicians and media are subject to Zionist blackmail and that the center of Zionist activity is in Britain, due to Britain's central role in the creation of Israel. Therefore, criticism of Israel is considered anti-Semitic, even if the criticism is directed by a Palestinian victim of the Zionist project.


This is daily antisemitic incitement in Arab media. And Al-Ashaal is not a marginal figure; he publishes in popular websites and is seen on TV.  
The scandal isn't endemic Arab antisemitism. The scandal is that the Western media ignores it.











						Former Egyptian official gives a concise summary of modern Arab antisemitic beliefs
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

*The following is an extract from one chapter, including footnotes, from The  Industry of Lies  by Israeli journalist Ben-Dror Yemini. It is an insightful and concise must-read. The book was published by Norwegian pro-Israel group Med Israel For Fred (MIFF) in 2015 and is now  available for free online here  in Norwegian (With thanks: Conrad):*

A common myth is that the Jews in Arab countries lived in harmony with their non-Jewish surroundings under Muslim rule. [2] “The Golden Age” of equality, tolerance, cultural flourishing and interreligious harmony. “The Golden Age”, a brief period of Jewish flourishing in Muslim Spain, has been taken out of its original context and become a sort of historical label that paints an image of alleged tolerance and harmony under Muslim rule. Only because of Zionism and the escalation of the conflict in Palestine, it is argued, did this harmony collapse. [3] This lie has been repeated countless times. It should be countered.
The majority of Jews in Arab countries did not experience the horrors of the Holocaust. Until World War II, European Jews suffered more. It does not make the situation for Jews from Muslim countries, even before Zionism, much better. There were periods when Jews lived in relative peace under Muslim rule. There were periods – such as after the expulsion from Spain – when the Turkish sultan actually invited the Jews as welcome guests. [4]
But these periods were the exceptions, not the rule. Most of the time, the Jews in Muslim countries lived at the mercy of the authorities, and they were often subjected to humiliation, expulsion, pogroms and systematic deprivation of their rights. It is worth recalling the reply of the Tunisian-Jewish philosopher Albert Memmi to the then ruler of Libya, Muammar al-Gaddafi, after his invitation to the Jews of Arab countries to return, about the myth that it was Zionism that left Jewish -Arabic harmony in ruins:

_The truth is that we lived a life of fear and humiliation in Arab countries. I will not repeat the incidents of slaughter before Zionism […] The truth is that the Jewish youth in Arab countries became Zionists before Auschwitz; the state of Israel is not a result of Auschwitz, but of the Jewish situation in general, including the situation in Arab countries. [5]_

One can of course start with the original conflict between the Jews and the prophet Muhammad. As part of the process of leading the Arabs out of the age of ignorance_ (jahiliyya),_ the Prophet took the monotheistic idea—perhaps primarily—from the Jews. But Muhammad wanted to make the Arabian Peninsula a purely Islamic area. This led to the inevitable conflict with the Jews living in the area, a conflict that ended in the expulsion and massacre of hundreds of Jews. [6]
The religious similarities between the two religions on the one hand, and the frequent conflicts between them in the formative phase of Islam on the other, are reflected in an ambivalence towards Jews in Islam’s holy scriptures. The Qur’an and the _hadiths_ have a large number of references to Jews – not all of them negative. [7]Jews, as a “people of the book”, have the same rights as Christians to practise their religion.
From time to time, from generation to generation, conditions changed. In many cases, the Jews lived under the Omar Pact, named after the Muslim ruler who imposed it. This pact allowed the Jews to live as “protected” or _dhimmis,_ although it admittedly meant a lower status than Muslims. According to the covenant, the Jews could practice their religion, they were given protection for life and property, and they were given a certain autonomy in the internal administration of their communities. [8]

In exchange for these rights, the Jews had to accept various forms of discrimination. It was primarily to pay an additional tax, _jizya_, which only non-Muslims had to pay. But there were also other rules: Jews could not build new synagogues, ride animals used by the nobility (horses and camels) or hire Muslims. Jews, like Christians, were required to wear special hats and clothing to distinguish themselves from the rest of the population. For example, they were not allowed to wear green, Islam and the color of the Prophet Muhammad. A _dhimmi_ could not be  a witness in a trial involving a Muslim. There were places where Jewish men could only go to public baths if they had a special mark on their necks that distinguished them from others, and Jewish women were not allowed to use public baths.[9] These laws were designed to draw a clear line between the Muslim rulers and their non-Muslim subjects, as part of the Muslim social order. [10]

Enforcement of these laws varied. [11]Jews were not usually forced to convert to Islam, and they could live in areas that were under Muslim rule – but at the same time they were condemned to live in an inferior position, in our sense, as second- or third-class citizens. There were better and worse periods. There were rulers who were tolerant, and those who were not. There were also Jews who reached high positions: doctors in the ruler’s court, such as Maimonides, administrators and even a small number of military leaders. With the entry of modernism into the Middle East and the creation of nation-states, a Jew was a minister in the first governments of independent Morocco and Iraq.

However, these were the exceptions, not the rule. The Jews lived under Muslim rule as a distinct, excluded and discriminated minority. Islamic law clearly required the Muslim rulers to protect their non-Muslim subjects, but they did not always live up to these obligations, especially in times of trouble or pressure. Under such conditions, it was easy to make the minorities scapegoats.

(full article in Norwegian :








						Jødenes skjebne i arabiske land
					

En vanlig myte er at jødene i arabiske land levde i harmoni med sine ikke-jødiske omgivelser under muslimsk styre.




					miff.no
				













						The Jewish 'nakba' was greater than the Arab • Point of No Return
					

The following is an extract from one chapter, including footnotes, from The  Industry of Lies  by Israeli journalist Ben-Dror Yemini. It is an insightful and concise must-read. The book was published by Norwegian pro-Israel group Med Israel For Fred (MIFF) in 2015 and is now  available for free...




					www.jewishrefugees.org.uk


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## Sixties Fan

How did “Battir” come to be protected by UNESCO? It begins in 2007, with the inception of the building of Israel’s security fence. At that time, Battir sued the Israeli Defense Ministry in an effort to force Israel to change the planned route of the fence, which they claimed would cut through a 2,000-year-old irrigation system, which Wikipedia helpfully notes is “still in use.” UNESCO no doubt helped Battir take Israel to court, and in fact, in 2011, also according to Wikipedia, awarded Battir “a $15,000 prize for ‘Safeguarding and Management of Cultural Landscapes’ due to its care for its ancient terraces and irrigation system.”

In other words, $15,000 to help erase Jewish history.

This generous award naturally encouraged the Arabs to go further, and so, in May 2012, the Palestinian Authority sent a delegation off to UNESCO headquarters in Paris, to suggest they add Battir to its World Heritage list. At the time, the PA deputy minister of tourism, Hamadan Taha, announced that UNESCO wanted to “maintain [Battir] as a Palestinian and humanitarian heritage.”

But the thing is, since there was never an Arab state called “Palestine,” there is no such heritage. The place is specifically Jewish. To suggest otherwise is to express Jew-hatred through the denial of documented history—it's laughable. Hello: The Arabs call it “Battir” because it’s _Beitar_.


Roman inscription found near "Battir," which mentions the 5th and 11th Roman Legions.
Speaking of antisemitism and erasing Jewish history, let’s remember why that security fence, the pretext for the UNESCO inscription: “Palestine: Land of Olives and Vines — Cultural Landscape of Southern Jerusalem, Battir,” was built in the first place.

From the Jewish Virtual Library:



> Before the construction of the fence, and in many places where it has not yet been completed, a terrorist need only walk across an invisible line to cross from the West Bank into Israel. No barriers existed, so it is easy to see how a barrier, no matter how imperfect, won’t at least make the terrorists’ job more difficult. Approximately 75% of the suicide bombers who attacked targets inside Israel came across the border in the area where the first phase of the fence was built.
> From September 2000 until the end of 2006, more than 3,000 terrorist attacks originated in the West Bank, resulting in the deaths of 1,622 people inside the Green Line. By comparison, since 2007, when most of the fence was erected, until mid-2022, 141 attacks killed 100 people.
> Even Palestinian terrorists admitted the fence is a deterrent. On November 11, 2006, Islamic Jihad leader Abdallah Ramadan Shalah said on Al-Manar TV the terrorist organizations had every intention of continuing suicide bombing attacks but that their timing and the possibility of implementing them from the West Bank depended on other factors. “For example,” he said, “there is the separation fence, which is an obstacle to the resistance, and if it were not there, the situation would be entirely different.”


The Jewish history of Beitar was, by the way, the inspiration behind Vladimir Jabotinsky’s youth organization of the same name, in part because Bar Kochba was a Jew who fought back against foreign domination. The Etzel and also the Likud Party have their roots in the Beitar Movement. Prime ministers Begin and Shamir were both members of Beitar in their youth, and later, both were in the Etzel.

The Beitar youth movement is named for the last stand of the Beitar warriors, and remains active today as a Zionist leadership group.


A cluster of papyrus containing Bar Kochba's orders during the last year of the revolt, found at the Cave of Letters in the Judean desert by Israeli archaeologist Yigael Yadin.
With all this Jewish history behind it, what should we think about the Arab village of Battir that is planted atop this site of Jewish massacre and miracle? How are we supposed to view UNESCO’s naked antisemitism in bribing the PA to assist them in wiping out Jewish culture of the place?

And why should we pretend that “Battir” is “Palestinian,” when it was and always will be Jewish Beitar?

(full article online)









						Beitar’s Firm Jewish History and the Falsehood of Battir (Judean Rose)
					

The Arab village of Battir is the site of the ancient Jewish city Beitar. UNESCO wants to erase that ancient history.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

Some Jew-hating idiot responded that today's Jews have nothing to do with the Jews of Jesus' time, and gave as proof  "'EDOM IS IN MODERN JEWRY.' The Jewish Ency. 1925 Ed., Vol. 5, Pg. 41."

This was new to me, so, for fun, I looked this up. And this quote is all over antisemitic websites, I even saw a video about it on "GoyimTV." 

They are claiming that the Jewish Encyclopedia says that Jews are really descendants of Edom (Esau.)

So I looked up page 41 of volume 5 of the 1925 Jewish Encyclopedia. It really is the entry on Edom, although it doesn't say at all what they claim it says.





What it does say is that during the Hashmonean era, some of the Edomites (Idumeans) were forcibly converted to Judaism by John Hycranus I (which is the only case of forced conversion to Judaism in recorded history.)

The Idumeans did become enthusiastic members of the religion - King Herod was Idumean. They were obviously still a minority among Jews. (There is an interesting halachic issue mentioned in the article about whether Edomites were allowed to join the Jewish people, but that is a separate matter.) 

Even so - they were considered Jews living in what would later be called "Palestine" in Jesus' time. They are clearly of MIddle East origin, native to the region. Even if some of them survived to remain Jews today, how, exactly, does this hurt the Jewish claim to Israel? The Idumeans lived as Jews in Judea seven centuries before Islam!

All this proves is that antisemites, like anti-Zionists, will seize a tiny piece of real information and build an entire fictional universe around it to fit their hate.











						Another idiotic antisemitic argument
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

Palestinian site AlKhanadeq has been digging up some bizarre history.




> Some contemporary writers attribute “Zionism” to Mount Zion in Jerusalem, and that it was born in the last quarter of the nineteenth century. However, the truth indicates that* it was a product of the twelfth century AD, as it appeared among the “Khazar Jews,”* a people of Turkish origin. Their influence extended between the Black Sea in the west, the Caspian Sea in the east, which bore their name, the Caspian Sea, and from the Caucasus in the south to the Volga in the north. In the year 740 AD, the Khazar king, his court and his military embraced the Jewish religion, and Judaism became - the official state religion - among the Khazars, and it was a unique matter of its kind among the pagans. *Thus, the "Jews of the Khazars" considered themselves "God's chosen people" who had the "right of return" to the "Promised Land" of Palestine.*
> 
> Historian Arthur Koestler says in his book "The Khazar Empire and Its Legacy, the Thirteenth Tribe" that "there is another small matter related to the subject of the Khazars, which is a semi-mythical matter close to historical folklore, and still lives to this day. In Khazaria there was a messianic movement, and it was a primitive attempt aimed at reclaiming Palestine by force of arms. They say, “It is the time when God will gather His people, the people of Israel, from all the countries to Jerusalem, the holy city,” and they mention that “Solomon son of Doji is Elijah” (one of the prophets of the Torah), and that his son is the awaited Savior.
> 
> It is clear that these invitations were addressed to the Jewish groups in the Middle East, and their influence appears to have been weak. Because the next step was not taken until about twenty years later, when the young "Menachem" called himself "Daoud al-Ruy" and made his title "The Waiting Savior". Although this movement was born in Khazaria, it soon moved to Kurdistan, where the so-called "David" gathered a large armed force, including local Jews with the help of the Khazars, and they succeeded in taking a position for them in the fortified forest of Ahadi to the north-east of Mosul, and perhaps He hoped to lead his army from there to Edessa (Edessa) to reach by force through Syria to the Holy Land.



The author is claiming that David Alroy, a fairly famous false messiah, was the first person to want to lead Jews back to Israel - and he was a Khazar, not really Jewish. Therefore, Zionism itself has nothing to do with Judaism and is only a fake movement created by fake Jews!

I've seen some claim that Alroy  was a Khazar, but I have seen no evidence of that - he lived centuries after the Khazar kingdom fell and he lived in Persia, not former Khazaria. So this entire theory seems bogus to begin with.

Moreover, the history of Jewish false messiahs who tried to lead Jews back to Israel predates Alroy by centuries.  If that is evidence of the root of Zionism as the movement to return Jews to Israel, then Zionism goes back to the days of Bar Kochba!

The author also claims that the Star of David was first used by Alroy as well.

There is a great desire by some Palestinians to say that everything about Judaism and Zionism is fake. The theory comes first, and the "evidence" comes later. 

Which is pretty much what antisemitism is.











						Arab site: Khazars started Zionism!
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Tonight, Jews around the globe will once again dip apple slices in honey and wish each other a sweet year, kicking off the three-week holiday period that starts with Rosh Hashanah on the evening of September 25 and concludes on October 18 with Simchat Torah.

While many Jewish holidays are strikingly particularistic, as they relate to the Jewish nation’s unique history and purpose, the High Holiday prayers also carry a message for humanity as a whole. In the words of the late chief rabbi of the United Kingdom, Jonathan Sacks: “There is a note of universality to the prayers on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur that we do not find on other festivals…The emphasis is on human solidarity. And human solidarity is what the world needs right now.”

For instance, the section of _malchuyot_ — which appears in the Rosh Hashanah _Musaf_ service and references God’s kingship over all that is — alludes to Judaism’s ultimate eschatological vision; a messianic era in which all nations will peacefully coexist.



> Our God and God of our fathers, reign over the entire world with Your glory, and be uplifted over all the earth with Your honor, and appear in the splendor of Your majestic might over all who dwell in the inhabited world of Your earth; so everything that has been made will know that You have made it, and it will be understood by everything that was formed that You have formed it.”


Drawing upon similar themes, Zechariah 14:16, chanted in synagogues on the first day of Sukkot (9-16 October), envisions a time when all nations will joyfully flock to Jerusalem to celebrate the seven-day festival following the establishment of a “house of prayer for all peoples” on the Temple Mount.

Yet the Palestinian media, in their reporting on the impending Jewish holiday season, chose to ignore these positive themes and instead used the occasion to incite more hatred and violence against the Jewish people.

“What are the settlers’ plans during their incursion to the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque in their claimed holidays from Sep 26 to Oct 17, 2022?” one Twitter post by Al-Qastal, a popular Palestinian news site, focusing on events in Israel’s capital, read [emphasis added].

The attached graphic mocked Jewish tradition, suggesting that peaceful worshippers are actually “settlers” preparing to “storm” the Al-Aqsa Mosque while carrying out nefarious “Talmudic rituals” and blowing the “trumpet” (an apparent reference to the shofar, a ram’s horn customarily blown to inspire introspection).

Al Qastal furthermore incited its followers by claiming that Israelis were plotting “large-scale incursions” into the Western Wall plaza, Judaism’s second-holiest site, where they allegedly planned to introduce “vegetarian sacrifices.”

(full article online)









						'Talmudic Rituals' & 'Vegetarian Sacrifices': How Palestinian Media Cover the Jewish Holidays | Honest Reporting
					

The Palestinian media, in their reporting on the impending Jewish holiday season, incited more hatred and violence against the Jewish people.




					honestreporting.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.
> 
> I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others.  And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.
> 
> I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.
> 
> We all know what has happened since 1920.
> 
> But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?
> 
> Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History?  Then why are they destroying any and all of it?
> 
> This is what has been going on for decades.  Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?
> 
> Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
> The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.
> 
> The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
> ----
> In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.
> 
> This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.
> 
> Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.
> 
> The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun  in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
> ---------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves  the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?
> 
> Which one of you would dare do so?
> 
> Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
> Where has UNESCO been all of this time?  What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History?  Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?
> 
> Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.
> 
> I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?
> 
> How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?
> 
> What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
> (I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )
> 
> DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?


How can you possibly "own" the land for 3000 years, but yet have to "regain" it later?

Your argument is irrational.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Billo_Really said:


> How can you possibly "own" the land for 3000 years, but yet have to "regain" it later?
> 
> Your argument is irrational.



They regained the shit out of it, eh?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> How can you possibly "own" the land for 3000 years, but yet have to "regain" it later?
> 
> Your argument is irrational.


Oh, you forgot, Billo.

YOU DO NOT CARE. !!!!


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Oh, you forgot, Billo.
> 
> YOU DO NOT CARE. !!!!


You're right! But I can still comment.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> You're right! But I can still comment.


Then just comment that YOU DO NOT CARE. !!!


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Then just comment that YOU DO NOT CARE. !!!


That wasn't my comment! I asked you how can you own something you have to regain?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> That wasn't my comment! I asked you how can you own something you have to regain?


As always, derailing the thread.

This thread, you have noticed, but do not care......

Is about other people's trying to destroy Jewish History.

You have nothing to contribute to it, that is very clear.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> As always, derailing the thread.
> 
> This thread, you have noticed, but do not care......
> 
> Is about other people's trying to destroy Jewish History.
> 
> You have nothing to contribute to it, that is very clear.


I am commenting on what you said, how is that irrelevant?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Dr. Najeeb Qaddoumi, a member of the Palestinian National Council who lives in Jordan, has been publishing a series of articles in Arabic media entitled "Palestine: the land of  milk and honey."

As an official of the Palestinian government, his opinion of Jews is state-sanctioned antisemitism.

He starts off with the idea that Canaan was a peaceful, progressive state where writing was invented. (It wasn't.) He doesn't mention the many wars, occupations and invasions. And he claims that the Canaanites invented the term "land of milk and honey." (Um, no.)

His historical revisionism continues in part two, where he says the Philistines peacefully integrated with the Canaanites and magnanimously gave their name, Palestine, to the region.

Jews? What Jews? Qaddoumi says that there is no evidence that the children of Israel ever enter the land of Canaan; they stayed in the Arabian peninsula and the rabbis made up the whole Torah while in Babylonian captivity. But he allows that there are some opinions that there was a Kingdom of Judah and of Israel.

In part 3, though, he says that somehow the Jews convinced themselves while in Babylonia that their ancestors really had a rich, detailed life in the Land of Israel, so this was an early form of Zionism. He then says:




> Religious reformer Martin Luther says their Talmud and their rabbis teach them that murder is not considered a sin if the murderer is a Jew and the murdered is a non-Jew, but it is considered a sin only if the Jew kills his Jewish brother.
> 
> The Jews still cling to this belief and follow the example of their parents and teach their children to do so, and this is what the Israeli curricula that they are trying to impose on Arab schools, especially in Jerusalem, imply.
> 
> As they sow in the minds of their children hatred for the Palestinian, the Arab and the Muslim... By forgery and fabrication they try to erase the ideas of the Palestinian students who are steadfast on their land with their families and poison the facts and distort their ideas and distance them from their heritage and their ancient past.



Then, in part 4, a truly bizarre analogy is made, but one that leaves no doubt that "Zionists" and Jews mean the same thing to Qaddoumi:

The hatred between the Jewish and Christian parties deepened when the Jews crucified Jesus...



> It is worth noting that* Zionism has tried hard to acquit the Jews of the blood of Christ*, peace be upon him, and despite the fact that the United Nations issued an important resolution in 1975 AD saying that Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination. But the American and Zionist political pressures and campaigns of extortion and skepticism enabled Zionism and Israel, with the support of the United States of America and Britain, to issue a resolution acquitting the Jews of the blood of Christ, peace be upon him, issued by Pope Paul VI in 1965 AD, and a decision by the United Nations in 1991 AD to cancel its decision to condemn Zionism.



Those powerful Jews managed to take over the UN - and the Roman Catholic Church!

Qaddoumi writes for many Palestinian and Arab news outlets.











						Today's Palestinian antisemitism: Rewriting the history of the Levant
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Part  1

I shouldn’t have to write this: others, better educated about this than me, people with deeper insight into world history and geopolitics should: historians should document this, journos should flood the internet with articles, politicos of every left or right shade, from the continent and across The Pond should clamour to support this, educators should educate on this.



Yet, here we are: this truth that needs to be said remains, apart from the odd internet article - of which this one has great chances of ending up being too - hidden, sidelined, forgotten and ignored.



Better still: we should not have allowed this atrocity to be committed, this falsehood to spread and take root, this deeply unjust thing to exist. Yet here we are: just do an internet search and you’ll see. The worst is when Israelis support it.



The thing I refer to is, of course, the notion of ‘Palestine’.

‘Palestine’ is, at core, a colonial endeavour, a malign intention of domination, control and dispossession, a false flag operation, a deception, (the oldest) piece of fake news, a grotesque masquerade of peoplehood, a trivial pursuit of individual enrichment, a geopolitical stratagem, a ruse hidden in plain sight, an unambiguous expression of fundamental disregard for humanity and for human rights, a deeply antisemitic thing, a profoundly inhumane thing.

As its apologists like to point out, the name ‘Palestine’ is ancient. Indeed this hateful thing is, probably, if not world’s oldest political machination, certainly its longest.

The name ‘Palestine’ is an English word, based on a Latin one that it turn has its roots in a Greek one. Somewhere in-between it has been adopted in Arabic and a handful of other languages.










Palestine' etymology'

Whatever the origin of this word may be, one thing it certainly is not: indigenous to the land it purports to describe. No political entity, local to the land between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean Sea has ever - ever, ever - called itself so. It remains, from time immemorial to present day, an exonym, a name given by Greek, Roman and Arab colonial powers to the lands they conquered; and it is specific to an etic discourse of domination and epistemic violence. In every shape and form, linguistically, ‘Palestine’ is a foreign thing.

As ‘Palestine’ is a neologism to the language of the individuals who supporters say it politically represents - the Arabs - no decent person, organisation or entity can accept its claim of indigeneity. But more: the land purported to be designated by this misnomer has no natural borders but those drawn by colonial powers and are so upheld as to not impinge on their successors, particularly the Kingdom of Jordan.












						Palestine: A story of Colonialism through the ages
					

Decades of media propaganda, academic mis-theorising and NGO support, banished common sense from the minds of  brainwashed thousands. Op-ed.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Part 2

The oldest indigenous name of the land was ‘Canaan’ and it had been given to the land by the native people of the land, the Canaanites, divided by early literature, like the Bible, into subgroups such as the Hivites, Girgashites, Jebusites, Amorites, Hittites, and Perizzites. Jews adopted the name and made it famous through the Bible.

By the times we refer to, roughly 2000 - 1500 BCE, ancient Israelites had already developed a notion of being a distinct tribal entity - Beyt Israel, the House of Israel - based on a genealogy derived from the Biblical Jacob, later called ‘Israel’. In such a notion, elements of locality, such as using local names for God, like ‘El’ and using Ugaritic and proto-Sinaitic alphabet, combined with elements of exogeny, pointing to a memory of a distant foreign origin in a city called ‘Ur’, identified with nowadays-Basra in southern Iraq, then called ‘Chaldea’, via somewhere at the Syrian - Turkish border in the city of Haran, tied together by the triad Abraham - Itzhak - Jacob.



And then, it may have been that Greek refugees from Crete and ancient Caphtor, nowadays-Cyprus, driven away by the destruction caused by the eruption of the Santorini volcano in 1613 BCE, settled in some five cities on the Eastern Mediterranean coast, around what nowadays is referred to as The Gaza Strip. It so may be that they - or historians such as Herodotus - named the land they occupied ‘Philistia’.


Let us note that the ending of this name, ‘-ia’ is in line with both Greek and Latin language rules in naming of countries (sometimes, ‘-ea’): Ital-ia, Grec-ia, Span-ia, German-ia, Franc-ia, Alban-ia, Serb-ia, Macedon-ia, Turc-ia, Lyb-ia, Tunis-ia, Ind-ia, Pers-ia, Arab-ia but Nabat-ea, Chald-ea, and, of course, Jud-ea.


The ones picking up this word next are the Romans, themselves a colonising power, centred on Rome but extending its civilising but ruthless reach, at its highest, from England to Arabia and from Danube to Tunisia.


By the time the Romans arrived on the eastern shores of the Mediterranean, displacing the Greek polities, around 30BCE, the Jews already had their hay-day in the Bronze Age Kingdom of Judea, Kingdom of Israel and the United Monarchy and were then already under good two centuries of Hellenisation, officially living in the province of ‘Coele-Syria”, possibly meaning ‘the whole of Syria’ but actually living in a state of semi-independence in their country, widely known as ‘Judea’.



If the Greek refugee-colonists may be excused from an overtly politicised use of the name “Philistia”, the Romans can not. The Romans not only have used this word to designate a region of Syria, the southern, but, having absolutely no qualms in conquering other people and being viciously genocidal, have used it to abscond their colonization and to dispropriate and disenfranchise the then owners of the land, the Jewish People, political usage that remains to this day.



A colonized land had then, as throughout history, much to gain from being part of a larger polity. Access to the imperial language and culture, but mostly to its market, made the acceptance of colonial rule a strategically sound alternative to total annihilation, and many people so chose in the face of the advancing Roman legions throughout the Mediterranean basin.











Map of the Roman EmpireCourtesy


So complete and fundamentally altering was the entrenchment of Greek and Roman empires around the Mediterranean Sea that to this day the vast majority of people living there continue to use Greco-Latin languages, political systems and can be spoken of largely as part of Greco-Roman culture.












						Palestine: A story of Colonialism through the ages
					

Decades of media propaganda, academic mis-theorising and NGO support, banished common sense from the minds of  brainwashed thousands. Op-ed.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Part  3

But more: so philosophically profound was the ancient Greek culture and so materially efficient was the Roman that their legacy permeated throughout Europe both in lands actually colonized and in lands never colonized. Their legacy then, extended around the world though further colonization and forms nowadays the foundation of modern political, cultural and economic life of practically every country in the world. We are all, more or less, Hellenised.


And so, it was rather a natural for a Roman governor of an imperial province to expect and receive total submission and often admiration of the local people who, rather, welcomed the Empire and its civilisation, blending local customs and knowledge with the imperial one and producing fascinating local varieties of Roman culture, such as in the Ptolemaic Egypt of Cleopatrean fame.


But not so the Jews. The Jews resented Roman occupation and fought endlessly for independence. And so unique was this in Roman times that, alone amongst all other provinces, the conquering of Judea was regarded as a great honour, appropriately marked with atrocious imperial impertinence by minting of a gold coin labelled ‘Judea Capta’, “the Captured Judea”, struck by the Roman Emperor Vespasian in the aftermath of the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem and of the subjugation of the land, and showing a woman representing Judea crying in her hands. behind which a triumphant Roman general stands with pride.









Roman Coin


So profoundly did the Romans fear the Jews and the inherent threat that they’d continue - as they did - fight against the occupation, that they renamed Jerusalem into Aelia Capitolina and Judea into Syria-Palaistina, prohibited the learning of the Torah, punishing even owning a Bible; circumcision, widely regarded as uniquely Jewish at the time, was painfully reversed, Jewish children received Greek and Roman names, families changed their patronym to no-longer sound Jewish, etc. - much like Jews would be forced to do time and again throughout Christendom and Arabic and Islamic Middle East.



In Roman usage, however, this word was no longer a proper name, denoted by the ‘-ia’ ending but an adjective, denoted by the ‘-na’ ending, rendering it as ‘Palaistina’.














						Palestine: A story of Colonialism through the ages
					

Decades of media propaganda, academic mis-theorising and NGO support, banished common sense from the minds of  brainwashed thousands. Op-ed.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Part 4

An adjective as such, ‘Palaistina’ was attributed to the larger and more important province of Syria, rendered as ‘Syria - Palaistina’ and denoting the southern part, somewhere from the anti-Lebanon mountains down to Arabia Petraea and Nabatea, and so named specifically to try and erase any Jewish connection to the land.


And so remained the usage of the word throughout subsequent Arabic - Islamic colonisation of the Middle East where it was picked up as ‘Jund Filastin’, bearing the typical p-to-f slide in Semitic languages. It is in this mispronunciation that Arab politicians still refer to this land.


But as empires raged on and Jews were relegated to distant lands and a perennially inferior position, unable and afraid to stake political claims, the eminent backwater nature of this land, and more prominently of Jerusalem, took its toll and saw initial promises of patronage trickle down to mere royal titles, such as those floundered by the House of Hapsburg or the Emirate of Transjordan.


Significantly, however, what buildings we now see in Jerusalem are patently not Arab but Turkish, as in Ottoman, particularly the fortified walls, initiated and paid for by Suleiman the Magnificent in 1537. Emphatically, there is no Arab architecture in Jerusalem.












Dome of the Rock

The only building in Jerusalem that might have some Arab heritage is the Dome of the Rock, its history itself a testament of colonialism and imperial abuse: as Christian Patriarch of Jerusalem, Sophronious, impudently disregarded Jewish rights on the city and surrendered it to invading Arab armies, the new colonial occupiers, wanting to show off the supremacy of their then-newly-found monotheistic religion against its precursor, renovated what seems to have possibly been an octagonal commemorative structure erected by the Romans on the ruins of (a temple to Jupiter, itself built on top of the desecrated ruins of) the Second Jewish Temple and erected a copy of the dome of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, furthering the colonial arrogance and disregard for older - and hence stronger - Jewish claims to that land.











						Palestine: A story of Colonialism through the ages
					

Decades of media propaganda, academic mis-theorising and NGO support, banished common sense from the minds of  brainwashed thousands. Op-ed.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Part 5

Like the Romans, Christian, Arab/Islamic conquerers of Jerusalem boasted their conquest of Jewish homeland in vain attempt to portray their respective religions as superior, for, the logic went, if their God allowed for Jews to be made despondent, it must be that this is wholly deserved and righteous because their own deity is, logic would go, superior, aka “akbar”, i.e “bigger” in Arabic, from ‘kabir’ - ‘big’. So much did the Islamic Waqf of Jerusalem like this supremacist idea that in their 1925 guide to the Dome and its surroundings mentioned the tradition that the building stands on the ancient Temple of Solomon, never realising the colonial abuse inherited through the ages.


Such powers that be today do not seem to be as fond of this argument if applied in reverse, though, and hate when point is made that the same God that earlier allowed Jewish despondency, in 1948 re-granted Jews dominion over their homeland and allowed vastly larger foreign armies to be defeated by the nascent Jewish state - just as countless Jewish prophets prophesised - that God would re-gather its people to its homeland.



Such deep is the hate and fear for Jewish dominion over Jewish homeland that to this very day countries far and wide on the globe maintain their embassies to the Jewish State not in its designated capital city - like they do in any other country - Jerusalem, but in Tel Aviv.


With typical ambiguity then, in 1917, Britain picked up the word in question and made it into a country name in English as ‘Palestine’, bearing the common ‘-ne’ ending for names of countries.


In their plan to overthrow Ottoman control of the Middle East and fearful of jeopardizing the political double - no, triple - dealings they were playing at the time, specifically the negotiations with 1) the Zionist Movement represented by Chaim Weizmann, 2) a confederation of Arabian tribes lead by Sharif Hussein, King of Hejaz and 3) with France, represented by Picot, the British government issued the famous Balfour declaration, carefully wording it to specify support for re-establishment of the Jewish homeland “in Palestine” - and not ‘of Palestine’ as undoubtedly Weizmann pleaded for.



And thus, articulated in the English language of colonial reputation, has this word - and it promiscuous history - entered the international consciousness.


Building on the said ambiguity but also the British smart move of emphasising the geographic - administrative understanding of the term, both the worldwide Jewish community and gentiles initially made use of the word, understanding “Palestine” as a Jewish country. So revailing was this understanding that in a 1939 football match in Australia, the Israeli team is referred to as ‘Palestinians’, 


But that, as all good things, was short-lived and the initial technical designation of the land and its inhabitants gave way to the intense politicisation of the word that followed overtures by Haj Amin al Husseini (not of local “Palestinian” but of foreign Hejazi Arab origin) to a Nazi regime bent on extending its own colonial arm all the way to the then-newly discovered gas fields in Iraq.


And so, misguidedly supported by Nelson Mandela, and empowered by Soviet propaganda against United States, the term made its way into polite society of NGOs and academia, leading to a plethora of equally misguided anti-colonial literature that now tried to portray ‘Palestine’ as an indigenous project.


And since academic virtue-signalling is really nothing much without the right dose of violence, the term made headlines around the world again during the First Intifada, that left behind some four years of atrocities, many dead and many more hurt.












						Palestine: A story of Colonialism through the ages
					

Decades of media propaganda, academic mis-theorising and NGO support, banished common sense from the minds of  brainwashed thousands. Op-ed.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Part  6

And so we reach the zenith of this misnomer with the development and spread of the ‘Free Palestine’ slogan: based on decades of media propaganda, of academic mis-theorising, national funding from supposedly friendly countries, NGO and union support, common sense and reason seem to vanish from the minds and hearts of thousands of people, allowing themselves to be brainwashed and summoned at will on the streets of our cities only to tire their throats shouting this English language call replete with colonial abuse in an apparent deep - and how can it be other than - deliberate ignorance of its inherently genocidal and murderous aim.


And it is in this profoundly antisemitic usage that the word is circulated nowadays, aimed at denying Jews dominion and ownership of their homeland, at uniquely demonising and scapegoating every human failure on the Jews, at engendering exclusion of Jews in politics, academia and NGOs, at facilitating and normalizing further Arab colonization in Samaria and Judea, generously funded by the European Union and other ‘friends’, at allowing a sick immigration experiment to template future tactics of erosion of nationhood - that we now see in full swing with the Palestinization of Ukraine - , at obscuring international alliances, at tokenizing in foreign politics from Ireland to Venezuela and from Corbyn to the EU via Iran, at virtue-signalling to peers a disguised sense of superiority amongst GenZ, at whitewashing historical crimes for which guilt seems too much to bear, at passing as “White” profoundly POC people, the Jews.


And this is only about the notion of “Palestine”, let alone the reality, the reality of the vast amounts of money - I heard once that a full quarter of UN budget is used to attack Israel - poured into a myriad of organizations, one with a more nefarious activity than the other; the litany of articles, the intrinsic corruption of “Palestinian” organizations, like the PA, the torture, abuse and fundamental disregard for human rights at the hands of vast networks of organized crime that, under the serene eye of the UN and the world at large, have engulfed Arab towns in Samaria and Judea where Jews and Israel were blocked from exercising sovereignty but also the deep corruption of our Western leaders who pay lip-service to freedom and human rights while lavishing our tax money on perpetuating the sick notion of “Palestine”.

And I haven’t yet said a word about the equally colonial notions of ‘the 'West Bank'’ and ‘cis-Jordan’. Perhaps in a next article.











						Palestine: A story of Colonialism through the ages
					

Decades of media propaganda, academic mis-theorising and NGO support, banished common sense from the minds of  brainwashed thousands. Op-ed.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

This Jerusalem Tour is One the Palestinian Arabs Don't Want You to See
					

Why? Because it further proves the Jewish connection to Jerusalem.




					www.israelunwired.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

It's October, and Arab media are talking about their "victory" in the Yom Kippur War 49 years ago. 

There is no doubt that the beginning of the war was disastrous for Israel, and the repercussions of that failure were felt for years. 

But somehow the Arab media never mentions the position of the Israeli forces at the time of the final ceasefire:

1. The IDF surrounded Egypt's Third Army and Suez City inside Egyptian territory and could have crushed them.
2. There was nothing between the IDF and Cairo. 
3. Israel ended up on the outskirts of Damascus.
4. Israel lost 114 planes during the war, but only 20 in battle. Israeli pilots shot down at least 450 Arab aircraft in dogfights.
5. About 2700 IDF soldiers were killed - a horrific amount. But Syria and Egypt lost over 11,000 soldiers.

By any objective measure, the Arab side lost badly. Calling it a "victory" is ridiculous. But when people have a zero-sum mentality, and they can see that Israel was hurt - which it was -  they cannot distinguish between "Israel hurt" and "Arab victory."










						Arabs still claiming to have won the Yom Kippur War
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

On the one hand, Nevel claims, “antisemitism is directed at Jews as Jews. Criticism of Israel or Zionism is directed at a nation-state,” implying that there is no connection between criticism of Israel and hostility towards Jews. But on the other hand, she wrote, “for many of us who are Jewish, we feel an obligation to make clear Israel does not have our support and to speak out about the injustices being committed.” If Israel is just any old nation-state, just like any other, then why does Nevel feel that being Jewish gives her a special obligation to speak about it?

She is, moreover, either blissfully ignorant of Jewish history, or appallingly disingenuous. She wrote:



> Zionism is a political movement that resulted in the dispossession and expulsion of 750,000 Palestinians from their land and homes. Opposing that movement in favor of a movement that honors and respects all who live there is an important principle to uphold. That is not remotely antisemitic. In truth, conflating anti-Zionism and antisemitism turns the focus far away from fighting antisemitism and envisioning a world in which all people are treated with dignity, and, instead, is about building support for Israel’s unjust, discriminatory system that privileges Jews over all others and continues to engage in land theft and enormous violence against Palestinians.


Of course, the Palestinian Arabs who became refugees in 1948 mostly fled from a war that they, along with five Arab nations, started. As CAMERA has written before,



> Historians agree that there was no single cause of the Arab flight from Palestine. In large part, the masses fled because they saw the Palestinian elite doing the same thing. In part, it was in response to exhortations by Arab military and political leaders that Palestinian civilians evacuate their homes until the end of the fighting. Vast numbers were simply fleeing the heavy fighting that surrounded them, or that they expected to soon disrupt their lives. In some instances, Palestinians were forced from their homes by the Jewish military.


The Jews who lived in the war-affected area, in contrast, did not flee—because they had nowhere else to go.

Nevel also appears oblivious to 1300 years of history in which Jews who lived in Muslim-majority lands lived as second-class citizens known as dhimmis, a kind of Middle Eastern Jim Crow. Similarly, her claim that Israel engages in “enormous violence” against Palestinians ignores decades of terror attacks against Israeli civilians, wars launched by Hamas, and rejection of peace and independence offers. Her allegation of “land theft” is of course baseless. 

Antisemitism is not simply, as Nevel claims, “like all forms of injustice.” It functions differently than other forms of bigotry; it can flourish in certain circles because it is viewed as “punching up,” and it often manifests as the demonization or delegitimization of the Jewish state. In order to fight it, people must understand it. That’s why IHRA is so important—and also why people like Nevel attack it.

(full article online)










						Sun-Sentinel Opinion Writer Undermines a Crucial Tool for Fighting Antisemitism
					

The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition of antisemitism has been adopted by 38 countries, a majority of US states, and most of the organized




					www.camera.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Part 1


Roger Waters is on tour, and that means, unfortunately, that he’s back in the public eye. _Rolling Stone_ has done a wide-ranging interviewwith him, that, to the magazine’s credit, pushed back on many of Waters’s most bizarre claims. (Roger Waters: A Contentious Political Discussion, October 4 on Apple Podcasts.) Both the print version and the podcast also included introductions that put some of those claims into context. Because, podcast host Brian Hiatt said, Waters’s tour provides him the opportunity to propagate his views to large audiences, the magazine felt they should take him seriously. Hiatt makes clear, however, “it’s not that we’re presenting this as something we endorse.”

Hiatt and journalist James Ball spent more than ten minutes introducing the podcast. Hiatt called Waters’s politics “fringe,” and said that, “sometimes he refuses to acknowledge what, I would think, the majority of experts agree to be facts on certain subjects.”

During the interview, Ball did an adequate job pushing back on some of Waters’s most outrageous claims, including that American and British Jews are responsible for Israeli actions “because they pay for everything.” And in the introduction, Ball notes that this assertion “ties into some very old and very dark tropes,” while Hiatt flatly says that Waters’s assertion that Jews don’t have ancestral ties to the region of Israel is “of course not true.”

Ball brings up the term “Gish Gallup,” which he calls “a form of argument … [in which] you throw out so many bad arguments quickly that the person arguing against either needs far more time and also a lot of knowledge to unpack it, [and] it won’t be very convincing to someone just coming to it cold.” This is something that anyone who spends time online advocating for Israel has likely experienced. Hiatt and Ball noted, however, that “it’s an interview, ultimately, not a debate,” so there were points at which it was necessary for them to simply move on. That’s where CAMERA picks up.

*Waters’s Fundamentally Flawed Worldview*

As the interview moved from discussions of Ukraine and Syria to a more general discussion of Waters’s philosophy, Waters brings up UK politician Naomi Wimborne-Idrissi, who was recently suspendedfrom the British Labour Party for speaking at an event hosted by a group that was “banned by Labour … for downplaying claims of systemic antisemitism within the party.” After Waters described his letter in defense of Wimborne-Idrissi, Ball asked him, “it felt to me there was a sense that when there are clashing narratives, as you research, is your first principal, believe the less powerful, the less privileged group? Would that be fair?” Waters responded, “partially, I suppose, but mainly that is because the oppressor normally has a closer grip on the narrative, so they can write the narrative, but at a certain point sometimes things become much more graphic and clearer and the narrative starts to slip from their grasp, again like I would say like Israel Palestine now, but even when it does it’s still very difficult for the oppressed to get out from under the heel of the jackboot.”

This is an important insight into Waters’s views, and shows how Waters’s entire view of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is based fundamentally on a flawed perception of reality. Although Waters clearly considers Israel the “oppressor,” it is Israel that has a free press, and Israel whose citizens have free speech and freedom to participate in organizations critical of the government. In the West Bank and Gaza, in contrast, it’s the PalestinianAuthority and Hamas, respectively, that keep a “close grip on the narrative.” But Waters proceeds on a faulty assumption that privileges the Palestinian narrative. In other words, he’s got everything backwards.

He exemplifies this backwardness immediately, as he goes on to say of the Palestinians, “we were sort of living here and then you came along and tried to throw us all out and now you’re killing us all, and we have no recourse to the law… Palestinians … don’t even have a right to life.” Can you count the number of outright falsehoods in that passage?

Ball does make an admirable attempt to put Waters into context, but his interview is not error-free either. For example, he refers to “Israel and Palestine,” seemingly unaware that there is not, and never in history has been, any sovereign entity known as “Palestine.”

In addition, Ball refers tangentially to the “absolutely appalling killing of Shireen” Abu Akleh. This is an example of an incident in which it was the Palestinians, and not the Israelis, that had the “close grip on the narrative.” As CAMERA has detailed at great length, the actual facts were far more complicated than the narrative that was widely presented.

Waters, however, takes off from Ball’s comment about Abu Akleh, saying, “every Palestinian shot to death by the IDF is appalling.” In every modern, western system of law, killing in self-defense or defense of another is considered justified. But for Waters, Israelis alone lack the right to self-defense. And later on in the interview, Waters claims Israelis “are trying to force the Palestinians into another intifada. … they’re murdering so many Palestinians every day now, the time will come when there will be another armed uprising.” So he engages in victim-blaming, claiming that Palestinian violence against Israelis is the fault of Israelis, even while describing Israeli defense against that violence as “murder.”

*Waters on Antisemitism*

When Ball asks Waters, “where is the gap between being very critical of Israel and being antisemitic?” Waters responds, “nowhere near the IHRA definition.” He then goes on to attribute the definition to someone called “George Steven, George somebody or other, who wrote it,” who has since come out against it. Waters appears to be thinking of Ken Stern, a critic of the IHRA definition who has attempted to take much of the credit for it. But as the actual drafters have written, “this is simply not true.” (Fifty-one out of the 53 members of the Conference of Presidents of Major Jewish organizations, including CAMERA, have endorsed the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition of antisemitism, as have 38 countries, the U.S. Education Department, and a majority of U.S. states.)  

Ball then asks what it is about the IHRA definition Waters objects to, and Waters replies, “well, that it says that criticism of Israel is antisemitic, it’s simple.” This is just another of Waters’s flights from reality; in fact, the definition says the exact opposite: “criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.”

Ball does attempt to push back here, distinguishing between criticism of Israel and criticizing “the right of Israel to exist.” Waters’s contempt for Israel comes through in his voice as he says, “the right of Israel to exist as an apartheid state, complaining about that, saying Israel does not have a right to exist as an apartheid state any more than South Africa did, or anywhere else would, is not antisemitic.” Waters claims, “it’s not disapproving of the people who live there, or the Jewish faith … it’s disapproving of the fact that they are a supremacist settler colonialist project that operates a system of apartheid.” But, again as CAMERA has detailed at great length, calling Israel a supremacist and/or an apartheid state is itself an antisemitic libel. Israel is a multi-ethnic democracy in which all citizens have equal rights.

When Ball attempts to push back on the term “settler,” Waters sounds as if he is frothing at the mouth: “There are seven hundred thousand settlers!” He seems to be referring to Jews who have bought land and built homes in the disputed territory of Judea and Samaria, frequently called the West Bank. Waters is quite angry at Jews for daring to live in a place where some people think they shouldn’t. But there’s no legitimate legal or moral reason that Jews shouldn’t live in the West Bank.

At one point, Waters tries to rely on the ADL to claim that he is not antisemitic. But the ADL has written of him, “his activism has increasingly been characterized as playing into antisemitic tropes, including those about Jewish or “Zionist” power; comparing Israel to Nazi Germany; and disparaging anyone who conveys even tangential support for Israel’s existence.” It then goes on to provide examples of “inflammatory and/or antisemitic statements from Waters.” And when Ball brings this up, Waters replies that he doesn’t “waste his time reading the ADL.”










						Roger Waters and the Gish Gallup
					

Waters claims that he’s “absolutely not” antisemitic, yet he uses euphemistic language to argue against the existence of one tiny state in which Jews




					www.camera.org


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## Sixties Fan

Part 2

*The Gish Gallup Continues*

Jews have lived there “no longer than Arab people have,” Waters claims, and “those people are not from there, they are not the descendants of indigenous people who’ve ever lived there, they’re all from Northern Europe or America, or somewhere else, so that people of the Jewish faith from other places who’ve come to Israel and then gone over the border into a country that is not Israel, contravening the Geneva Conventions and the UN Charter and settled the land, in absolute contravention of the Fourth Geneva Convention and all international law, they are settlers and occupiers of the land. It is not theirs, they have no right to it historically, whatever is written in the Old Testament or the New Testament.” Again, try to count the number of false statements (for hints, click the added links).





Model of Second Temple, which was destroyed in 70 CE
Waters, like many people, is completely ignorant of the history of the region so it must be reiterated here: the Arabs conquered and occupied the Levant in the seventh century, roughly two thousand years after the Jewish tribes established their first kingdom there. Jews have been living on that land continuously for 3,500 years.

Twice, Waters argues that non-Jews living in Israel should have equal rights – seemingly unaware that they already do. In the second of those instances, he misquotes the Balfour Declaration, which refers to “the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities,” and does not even use the word “indigenous” as he claims it does, to refer to Palestinians.

Waters responds “yes,” when asked whether Israel should be able to continue to exist if it were to find a two-state solution or a negotiated solution that, in Waters’s view, would no longer qualify it as an “apartheid state.” Later on, however, he says that the two-state solution is “gone … and everybody with half a brain agrees that there is no two-state solution.” But Waters ignores, or perhaps is actually oblivious to, the fact that it was the Palestinians who repeatedly rejected plans that would have created the “two-state solution”: in 1948, in 2000, in 2008, in 2014, and again in 2020. If indeed the two-state solution is dead, it was the Palestinian leadership that killed it. Yet Waters would have Jews give up their own autonomy in retribution for Palestinian actions.

The only conceivable solution, Waters claims, is “a single state where everybody is a citizen and everybody has equal political rights.” So in Waters’s view, Israel should be able to continue to exist only if it ceases to be the world’s only Jewish state, and becomes, instead, the world’s 57th Muslim majority state. That’s just a semantic game. His goal is to eliminate the Jewish state.

In the Muslim-majority state that Waters envisions in what is now Israel, Israeli Jews will “just have to get on with it.” He continues, “no one is suggesting that they all have to leave, which is what they suggested to the indigenous people.” Of course, to repeat, it’s the Jews, and not the Arabs, who are indigenous. More importantly, the assumption that if Jews return to minority status, they will be able to “just … get on with it,” is divorced from history. For most of the time that Jews lived as minorities in Arab lands, they were subjected to second-class or “dhimmi” status; a kind of Middle Eastern Jim Crow. As dhimmis, Jews, as well as Christians and other religious minorities for that matter, among other restrictions, “were excluded from public office and armed service … were forbidden to bear arms. … not allowed to ride horses or camels, to build synagogues or churches taller than mosques, to construct houses higher than those of Muslims or to drink wine in public. … not allowed to pray or mourn in loud voices-as that might offend the Muslims. The dhimmi had to show public deference toward Muslims-always yielding them the center of the road.” Jews living as dhimmis in Arab lands were periodically subjected to violence with no recourse. 

When Ball asks whether, in light of the Holocaust and the “incredibly traumatic birth of Jewish Israel,” Waters can sympathize with the need for a Jewish-majority state, Waters briefly concedes that point but then, shouting, claims, “their way of going about not letting that happen is criminally insane! And we can all see it from here!” Here, again, it’s Waters’s outsized anger that gives him away.





Theodor Herzl wrote The Jewish State in 1896, in the wake of the Dreyfus Affair.
Regarding Waters’s use of the phrase, “from the River to the Sea,” Ball asks, “are you aware it’s used as a shorthand for either the annihilation of Israel or to suggest Jewish people have no claim to any of the land on which Israel sits.” Waters responds, “bollocks, it’s just a geographical description of the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, it has no connotation to me apart from that.” Can you imagine Waters telling African Americans that blackface is “just make-up,” and that they should forget the historical context that makes it so offensive to them, because “it has no connotation _to me_ apart from that”? That’s roughly the equivalent of what he’s saying to Jews.

The creation of Israel was not predicated on the age-old persecution of the Jews; the founding of Israel is established in international law, based on Jewish indigeneity in the land, and won in a defensive war against multiple Arab states. But some history is instructive: In the wake of the Dreyfus affair, Jews began to realize that without a state of their own, they would never be safe from antisemitism. In the wake of the Holocaust, the nations of the world agreed. Waters claims that he’s “absolutely not” antisemitic, yet he uses euphemistic language to argue against the existence of one tiny state in which Jews control their own destiny and can find refuge from persecution. This is either denying the extent and depth of antisemitism, or denying Jews the right to determine their own response to it. That in itself is antisemitic.












						Roger Waters and the Gish Gallup
					

Waters claims that he’s “absolutely not” antisemitic, yet he uses euphemistic language to argue against the existence of one tiny state in which Jews




					www.camera.org


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

[ When Jews fall asleep, they help the enemy ]

In an interview with the Arabic-language channel Hala TV, Prime Minister Yair Lapid embraced wholeheartedly the Arab terminology regarding the Temple Mount––the site of two Jewish temples––when he announced: “We are not changing the status quo at Al Aqsa.”

Lapid is notorious for not being the brightest candle in the Menorah, and if you check, you’ll find numerous YouTube clips featuring him claiming the astronomer Copernicus was an ancient Greek (he was an early Renaissance-era Pole), and insisting Rosinante was Don Quixote’s lover (it was his horse). So, he probably wasn’t even aware of his faux pas. But when the Arabs say “Al Aqsa,” they don’t refer to the mosque at the edge of the sacred compound, they mean the entire compound, and so, right off the bat, Shulamit Lapid’s slower child erased 3,000 years of Jewish history and didn’t even know it.

“We will secure the religious rights of Muslims in Al Aqsa,” Lapid continued. “It’s our duty as a government to offer the freedom of worship to any Muslim who wants to pray in Al Aqsa,” adding that his government maintains ongoing communication with Jordan and the Jordanian Waqf agency that runs the site, to make sure Muslims are not denied their God-given rights of worship.

As to Jews, remember them? “We permit the entry of Jews, but we don’t permit Jewish prayers on the Temple Mount (he got it right this time – DI). They ascend and are under supervision to make sure the status quo is not broken.”

“The status quo will not be broken,” he concluded resolutely.

Indeed, Defense Minister Benny Gantz and Internal Security Minister Omer Barlev have made very similar statements. But coming from the prime minister with such clarity, it is obvious that this not-very-bright man, who has been getting by on his looks and theatrical skills, should not be in office.

It’s also true that under his predecessor, and, hopefully, replacement, Benjamin Netanyahu, the same status quo was being claimed, but Netanyahu’s Justice Minister Amir Ohana maintained a wink and nudge enforcement policy whereby Jews were allowed to hold afternoon minyanim on the Temple Mount and police turned a blind eye.










						Veering Further Left, Lapid Bans Jewish Prayer on Temple Mount
					

“The status quo will not be broken,” he concluded resolutely.




					www.jewishpress.com


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## rylah

Sixties Fan said:


> [ When Jews fall asleep, they help the enemy ]
> 
> In an interview with the Arabic-language channel Hala TV, Prime Minister Yair Lapid embraced wholeheartedly the Arab terminology regarding the Temple Mount––the site of two Jewish temples––when he announced: “We are not changing the status quo at Al Aqsa.”
> 
> Lapid is notorious for not being the brightest candle in the Menorah, and if you check, you’ll find numerous YouTube clips featuring him claiming the astronomer Copernicus was an ancient Greek (he was an early Renaissance-era Pole), and insisting Rosinante was Don Quixote’s lover (it was his horse). So, he probably wasn’t even aware of his faux pas. But when the Arabs say “Al Aqsa,” they don’t refer to the mosque at the edge of the sacred compound, they mean the entire compound, and so, right off the bat, Shulamit Lapid’s slower child erased 3,000 years of Jewish history and didn’t even know it.
> 
> “We will secure the religious rights of Muslims in Al Aqsa,” Lapid continued. “It’s our duty as a government to offer the freedom of worship to any Muslim who wants to pray in Al Aqsa,” adding that his government maintains ongoing communication with Jordan and the Jordanian Waqf agency that runs the site, to make sure Muslims are not denied their God-given rights of worship.
> 
> As to Jews, remember them? “We permit the entry of Jews, but we don’t permit Jewish prayers on the Temple Mount (he got it right this time – DI). They ascend and are under supervision to make sure the status quo is not broken.”
> 
> “The status quo will not be broken,” he concluded resolutely.
> 
> Indeed, Defense Minister Benny Gantz and Internal Security Minister Omer Barlev have made very similar statements. But coming from the prime minister with such clarity, it is obvious that this not-very-bright man, who has been getting by on his looks and theatrical skills, should not be in office.
> 
> It’s also true that under his predecessor, and, hopefully, replacement, Benjamin Netanyahu, the same status quo was being claimed, but Netanyahu’s Justice Minister Amir Ohana maintained a wink and nudge enforcement policy whereby Jews were allowed to hold afternoon minyanim on the Temple Mount and police turned a blind eye.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Veering Further Left, Lapid Bans Jewish Prayer on Temple Mount
> 
> 
> “The status quo will not be broken,” he concluded resolutely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishpress.com



Actually he didn't, and can't.

The Waqf is now more concerned with
'unidentified Jews' praying inside that Mosque.
And the Western Wall plaza, including the valleys
leading to it and the caves on the side, are not enough
for the streams of Jewish pilgrims coming from everywhere.

Now I agree - let's not fall asleep, our direction is the Temple Mount.










						הר הבית חדשות - מקצת מקולות עולי הרגל בהר הבית בסוכות
					

אלפי עולי רגל גודשים את הר הבית בסוכות - כן ירבו • עדין חסרים רבבות יהודים שיגידו: חזרנו לאבא! • הבאנו מקצת מהקולות והמראות בחצרות בית ה' • כל יהודי שעולה בטהרה להר הבית מוסיף אור ומקרב בעוד משהו את בניין המקדש • חג שמח לכל בית ישראל!




					har-habait.org
				











						הר הבית חדשות - שיא כל הזמנים: יותר מ-7,000 עולי רגל בהר הבית בחגי תשרי
					

עלייה דרמטית במספר עולי הרגל לתפילות בהר הבית • 7,130 יהודים מראש השנה • זינוק של 33% לעומת אשתקד • בחג הסוכות לבדו עלו להר הבית 4,673 יהודים




					har-habait.org


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## Sixties Fan

One of the most absurd fronts in an ongoing Arab/Palestinian war on Israel’s legitimacy is the fight about food.  Israelis are accused of food imperialism, i.e. appropriating Palestinian foods and even of “cultural genocide.” For example, James Zogby, founder and president of the Arab American Institute, tweeted in 2017:





CAMERA’s Gilead Ini examined this rhetorical offensive in depth, exposing the falsity of the underlying accusations as well as the motive behind them, in his 2020 _Commentary_ article. As he pointed out:



> The delegitimization of Israeli food is a predictable outgrowth of a broader campaign to denigrate Israel itself and to deny the culture and humanity of its Jewish citizens….
> …If you take a map and highlight locales where hummus has long been a staple, you’d end up with florescent yellow across Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, and the Palestinian-ruled West Bank and Gaza; and also Jaffa, Tiberias, Abu Ghosh, Akko, and Daliyat al-Karmel—towns and cities in Israel. Try as some might to scrub it away, Israel remains on the map of the Middle East…
> …But it will remain the case that Israel is on the map; that Israeli towns, like Palestinian ones, are celebrated for Levantine cuisine; that Israeli citizens, both Arab and Jewish, are weaned on that food; and that Jews, whether Ashkenazi or Mizrahi, are not strangers in the land of their forefathers.


The inane offensive over ownership of original recipes as part of a campaign against the Jewish state would not succeed without the aid and abetment of the mainstream media. And the _New York Times_ is the latest to join in.  

In “Preserving a Palestinian Identity in the Kitchen,” (online-Oct. 19; print-Oct. 20, 2022) _New York Times_contributor Aina J. Khan cites a Franco-Palestinian chef who created a cooking video series “aimed at reclaiming a cuisine that is part of a broader Arab tradition involving foods like hummus, falafel, tabbouleh, fattoush and shawarma that he felt was being co-opted by Israeli cooks.”  She features and highlights his outlandish accusations:



> “Food is being used to normalize the Israeli occupation by denying the origin of everything from hummus to falafel,” Mr. Kattan said. “The images of our grandmother’s hands working in the kitchen, rolling the vine leaves, dipping the bread of the mussakhan in oil.” He added, “These are images of beauty that are being stolen from us.”


That the food angle is just an excuse to expand on the greater theme of an illegitimately-created Jewish state is soon made clear by the article’s author. She writes:



> Before 1948, when over 750,000 Palestinians were forced from their homes or fled as the state of Israel was created, a mass displacement Palestinians call the nakba or “catastrophe,” about three-quarters of the Palestinian population lived in villages centered around agriculture…


In fact, Palestinians were displaced, not as the result of the establishment of the Jewish state but as the result of a war of aggression launched by Arab armies to annihilate it. Most estimates of the numbers of Palestinians displaced as a result of this war vary between 500,000 -600,000, with the vast majority of Arab refugees having fled in advance of the fighting, to escape the fighting, or at the behest of Arab leaders who urged them to temporarily leave their homes during the fighting. Although there were some instances where Arabs were expelled from their homes by Jewish troops during the hostilities, these represented only a small minority of those who were displaced.

Khan further emphasizes the theme of Jewish dispossession of Arabs when she writes of large areas near Haifa having been “originally allocated to a putative Arab state by the United Nations in 1947” that “were occupied by Israeli soldiers in 1948 after Arabs rejected the U.N [partition] plan….Many Palestinian families returned to razed homes and slaughtered livestock.”

Again, it was not that Arabs passively rejected the U.N. plan that led to Israeli soldiers occupying the area, but that they launched an aggressive war, in violation of the UN Charter, besieging Jewish communities and attacking Jewish defense troops.  That property and lives were lost during these hostilities was a direct result of the illegal and ill-conceived attempt by Arab leaders to annihilate the Jewish state. Disingenuously leaving out relevant parts of the story implies Israeli guilt; It is an easy way to attack Israel.   

The _New York Times_ has been increasingly showcasing the claims of anti-Israel activists and promoting their propaganda against the Jewish state, be it under the guise of a film review, and now, cuisine and food preparation.  It is yet another entrée into the wholesale delegitimization of the Jewish state, in an attempt to make it more palatable to the general public.











						New York Times Joins the Food Battle Against Israel
					

One of the most absurd fronts in an ongoing Arab/Palestinian war on Israel’s legitimacy is the inane fight about who owns the original recipe




					www.camera.org


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

A _Guardian_ op-ed (“This is why Liz Truss’s plan to move the British embassy to Jerusalem must be stopped”, Sept. 30), by London-based academic H.A. Hellyer, included the following claim:



> To move the embassy to Jerusalem would be to recognise Israel’s invasion and occupation of east Jerusalem as legitimate.


The claim was repeated in a subsequent sentence:


> To recognise the invasion and occupation as legitimate would also come at a time when the UK is rightly aiding and assisting Ukraine in its struggle against Russia’s invasionand occupation.


The word “invasion” is important, as the author uses it in an effort to draw an absurd comparison between Israel’s defensive war in 1967 and Russia’s unprovoked invasion, and partial occupation, of Ukraine.

However, the historical record is clear, as even the _Guardian’s_ own coveragehas made clear.

On June 5th, hours after the war began, Israel sent a message to Jordan, which (illegally) controlled east Jerusalem, pleading with them to stay out of the conflict.

However, decieved by false Egyptian claims that the Arabs were winning the war, King Hussein ordered his army to attack Israeli west Jerusalem and moved infantry across the armistice lines.  Jordanian forces took the Government House, the UN headquarters on the Biblical “Hill of Evil Counsel” in the no-man’s land between the two countries, directly threatening Israeli positions in southern Jerusalem.

Israel _responded_ to Jordan’s attack with a counter-attack, which ultimately resulted in Israeli control of that part of the city.

The author – who, it should be noted, wrote an op-ed last year suggesting that Israelis insisting on the right of their country to continue existing as a Jewish state are arguably racist – responded to our tweet alerting him to the error with a GIF of a man yawning:



Evidently, Hellyer, whose area of specialty includes the Middle East, finds historical accuracy regarding his region of expertise a bit boring.










						Guardian writer yawns when told of his Six Day War error
					

A Guardian op-ed ("This is why Liz Truss’s plan to move the British embassy to Jerusalem must be stopped", Sept. 30), by London-based academic H.A. Hellyer,




					camera-uk.org


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## Sixties Fan

The Jewish people never really left the Holy Land. Certainly, many were killed or expelled at the time of Masada and later, but many Jews continued to live in “Palestine” (the name given by the Romans after the Bar Kochba revolt, 132-135 CE) for a considerable time afterward. The evidence is clear from the extensive archeological sites visible today, such as those at Beit Alpha, Beit She’arim, Tzippori (Sepphoris), Baram, and many others. Jews formed a majority of the population of Palestine until at least the fifth century CE, and an autonomous Roman-recognized Jewish patriarchate in Palestine existed until 429 CE.

Archeological ruins point to the establishment of more than 80 synagogues, particularly in the Galilee, during the six centuries after the destruction of the Temple. After Masada, the Jewish population was substantial enough for three serious revolts against Roman or Byzantine rule to occur; the last one, against the Emperor Heraclius, was in the seventh century.

Evidence from the Cairo Genizah, and the writings of the Spanish-Jewish traveler Benjamin of Tudela, indicate that Jews continued to inhabit a number of towns, including Jerusalem, after the Byzantine defeat by the Arabs under Omar Ibn Al Khattab in 637, and even during Crusader rule. In fact, the 12th century witnessed an upsurge in Jewish immigration from Europe; 300 rabbis from England and France, including a number of prominent Tosafists, immigrated to the Holy land in 1211, while the noted Spanish rabbi and philosopher Nachmanides (the Ramban) made aliyah in 1267.

The Jewish population increased and decreased as a function of immigration, natural disasters, and disease. The expulsions from Spain (1492) and Portugal (1497) led to the establishment of a sizable 16th century Jewish community in Tzfat (Safed), one that became a major Judaic center, as well as an important focus for the wool trade and the textile industry.

An earthquake destroyed the entire Jewish Quarter of Tzfat and part of Tiberius in 1837, and thousands of Jews died. Nevertheless, substantial numbers of Jews continued to inhabit other centers, such as Hebron and Jerusalem.

In the late 1700s and early 1800s, well before the onset of the First Aliyah in 1881, significant numbers of Hasidic Jews, as well as their rivals — the followers of the Vilna Gaon — made aliyah. By the mid 1800s, Jews constituted a majority of the population of Jerusalem.

Others have made the same observation I am  making here. Bari Weiss refers to an inconvenient truth — that there has been a Jewish presence in the Land of Israel since the destruction of the Temple.

Tarek Fatah, a Canadian journalist of Pakistani origin, was even more explicit in an article in the Toronto Sun (2020). Fatah writes, “…far from being European occupiers of Palestine, as we were told, the Jews had been living around Jerusalem and the Levant for more than a millennium. In fact, it was the Arabs under Umar Al Khattab who first occupied the lands of Palestine.”


(full article online)










						An Inconvenient Truth: The Jewish People Never Left the Land of Israel
					

A general view shows the plaza of the Western Wall in Jerusalem, amid the coronavirus pandemic, May 6, 2020. Photo: …




					www.algemeiner.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Israel is not a settler colonialist state.  

Throughout the report, Albanese fully accepts the Palestinian narrative as true and doesn't even mention any Israeli counter-claims. The reader sees only one side of the argument, and is not even informed that perhaps Israel has its own arguments. Albanese doesn't want to acknowledge even the possibility that Jews have a right to their own state. 

Her one-sidedness is quite deliberate. She describes the Palestinian right to self-determination this way:


> The right to self-determination is an “inalienable right” of the Palestinian people, as affirmed by the General Assembly. The origins of Palestinians’ right to self-determination can be traced back more than a century, preceding the first codification in the Charter of the United Nations. The people of Palestine (Muslims, Christians and Jews), like other peoples in the Levant, also had their right to self-determination recognized under the Covenant of the League of Nations of 1919. Article 22 of the Covenant stipulated that “Class A” mandates (Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine, Trans-Jordan and Syria) would enjoy provisional independence “until such time as they are able to stand alone”. The “wishes” of the local communities were to be “a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory”.


But she doesn't mention the Mandate for Palestine which specifically says that Jews have the right to self-determination - and no one else!


> _The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions *as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, *as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion. _


This is lying by omission. Albanese knows the contents of the Mandate document - but wants to hide it from those reading this propaganda.  And it happens over and over again.

She offers a brief history of the region where Jews are the only people who ever do anything wrong:



> The culmination of centuries of antisemitism and persecution of Jews in Europe in the genocidal horror of the Holocaust strengthened support for political Zionism. This movement saw Palestine as the land to realize a “State for the Jews” through settlement and colonization. However, in that land a native Palestinian Arab population had resided for millennia. In 1947, the United Nations resolved to reconcile the separate claims to the land of the indigenous Palestinian people and the largely European Jewish settlers and refugees from Europe, by recommending the partitioning of British Mandate Palestine into an “Arab State” and a “Jewish State”. Soon after, the creation of the State of Israel in most of the territory of Mandate Palestine was accompanied by massacres and the mass expulsion, wholesale denationalization and dispossession of most of the Arabs of Palestine. They continue to be deprived of their right to self-determination, together with their descendants, the refugees further displaced in 1967 and other non-refugee Palestinians.



She doesn't once mention that Jews have historical ties to Israel. She doesn't mention the attacks by Arabs on Jews in Palestine decades before 1948. She doesn't mention that the Arabs rejected partition. She doesn't mention that the Arabs attacked the Jews. She doesn't mention that the territories annexed by Jordan ethnically cleansed  every single Jew.

It would take weeks to show the depth of Albanese's dishonesty, but here is just one paragraph of many:

(full article online)









						UN Special Rapporteur Francesca Albanese's report to the UN is Soviet-level anti-Zionist propaganda
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Starting with the _Nahḍa_, the Arab renaissance of the nineteenth century, and under the influence of European nationalist ideas being imported the former Ottoman Empire, Arab identity was to be constructed as a national category, including Christians, but excluding Jews, despite the important contribution of the latter to the intelligentsia and state apparatus, particularly in Iraq, Egypt and Morocco[6]. 

This is why it is appropriate to question the use of the expression “Arab Jews” by Arab intellectuals and artists. How can we interpret this _a posteriori_ recognition of the Arabness of these Jewish populations, after they have left the Arab territories, after having ceased to be an important element of Arab societies? The general rhetoric of the above mentioned open letter gives us the answer. In the expression Arab Jews, the function of the adjective is to abolish the nature of the noun Jew, to make it only a facet of the real subject, the Arab subject. Less than a Jewish-Arab culture, there would in fact be only a “_Jewish component of the Arab culture_“. The Jews are not a reality in their own right, but a part of the Arab heritage. Consequently, it is only possible to talk about them in terms approved by the Arab intelligentsia, and this is precisely what the IMA exhibition does not do, as it gives the floor to Jews from Arab countries, but not the “good” ones according to Elias Khoury, who puts forward an Israeli anti-Zionist academic, Ella Shohat. Born in Israel in 1959 to Iraqi Jewish parents, professor of _Cultural Studies_ at New York University – author of “Sephardim in Israel: Zionism from the standpoint of its Jewish victims”. _Social Text_ (1988) – Shohat sees the category “_mizrahim_” as a Zionist artifice to uproot Jews in Arab countries from their Arabness in favour of a uniquely Jewish identity, which she sees as being contrived, with a purpose to enlist them in the oppression of the Palestinian people. For her, the Mizrahim category is constructed in mirror image of the Ashkenazim category and is imbued with the negative archetypes linked to Orientalist representations.

These theses of Shohat are perhaps worth considering, but her claims to define Arab identity as the only authentic identity of the Mizraḥim and the irreducible opposition she portrays between this Arabness and Zionism as well as the claim of the Jews to self-define themselves as a people distinct from Europeans and Arabs, are nonetheless very objectionable. 

Indeed, the ambiguities of the Jewish national condition and the blurred contours of Jewish national identity, as explored by Jacqueline Shohet Kahanoff (1917-1979) and Albert Memmi (1920-2020), seem to better describe the reality of the Jewish condition in the Arab context. However, Kahanoff and Memmi are Zionists, and therefore unwelcome in the picture painted by the censors of the history of Jews in Arab countries, who do not intend to see these Jews define themselves outside the terms of twentieth century political Arabism, from which they had been excluded. 

The conditions of this exclusion belie the attempts of the signatories of the open letter to the A.I.M. to dictate the terms and acceptable partners to account for the varying conditions of Jews in Arab and Muslim countries. Between 1947 and 1972, nearly 800,000 Jews were expelled from the Arab League states, of whom 586,000 found refuge in Israel between 1948 and 1951 alone.  This disappearance, in one generation, of cultures that sometimes predate the Second Temple period, should not be read only in the light of Israeli independence and the antagonism of Jewish and Arab nationalisms in Mandatory Palestine, but is part of the long history of asymmetric relations between Arab-Muslim powers and their non-Arab and non-Muslim tributaries since the conquests of the _Rashidun_ and _Umayyad_ Caliphates. 

For although the _Dhimma_[7]was mostly abolished more than a century ago in the states of the Arab League (with the notable exception of Yemen), the mental structures inherited from it have persisted and still play a major role in the collective unconscious underlying the current conflict. They feed both the Israeli society’s feeling of being under siege and the narcissistic wound of the defeated Arab societies. They are hidden behind the agitated surface of controversies such as that of “normalisation”, of which the IMA is accused. 

Read article in full











						'Arab Jew' is another manifestation of Arab denial • Point of No Return
					

The Juifs d ‘Orient: une histoire plurimillenaire exhibition at the Institut du Monde Arabe in Paris earlier in 2022 broke with conventional taboos and commendably illustrated Jewish history and culture in their own right, although the Arab antisemitism that precipitated the Jewish exodus was...




					www.jewishrefugees.org.uk


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## rylah

*MK Ben Gvir clarifies his position regarding the Temple Mount*

Following a post in an influential Israeli forum, in which it was falsely claimed
that 'MK Ben Gvir backed down on the issue of prayers at the Temple Mount',
and that, 'Netanyahu will decide in matters involving the Temple Mount',

Ben Gvir demanded the post be removed,
directly addressing the readers,
to clarify his position -

"The issue of the Temple Mount has not yet come up in the talks, and when it comes up it is clear that I intend to demand that the place be treated as a sovereign country treats its most important place".


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## Sixties Fan

“European Jews, like European Christians, are converts to these strange Palestinian religions,” declared Columbia University professor of modern Arab politics and intellectual history Joseph Massad on Nov. 11 in Washington, D.C. This well-known antisemite’s assertion that Jews in the Western diaspora have no ethnic ties to the historic Jewish nation was merely one howler among many in his anti-Israel keynote address to the Palestine Center’s annual conference.

His talk, entitled “Jewish Self-Determination in the Land of the Palestinians,” is part of the decades-long attempt by academics to delegitimize Israel as a Jewish state by denying that modern Jews are the descendants of the ancient Hebrews. What they lack in facts, goodwill, and honest scholarship, they try (and fail) to make up for in hatred and vitriol.

In this case, Massad promoted the discredited theory that Ashkenazi Jews in Europe are the descendants of converts to Judaism. “If the European Jewish converts somehow claim to be descendants of the early Jews of Palestine, then why are European Christians also not claiming that they are descendants of the early Palestinian Christians,” he analogized. The obvious answer is that Christianity is a proselytizing religion transmitted via baptism, not lineage, and its spread among gentiles (non-Jews) throughout the Mediterranean world meant that its adherents represented myriad genetic pools: Greek, Roman, Germanic, Celtic and more. Massad also failed to explain why Jews throughout history have endured so much repression, including Nazi genocide, if their identities as Jews stemmed from religious practices alone.

Moreover, roughly half of Israel’s Jewish population does not descend from the Jewish diaspora in Europe and the Americas. Rather, these Mizrahi Jews descend from Jews who fled Muslim repression in the Middle East and North Africa after Israel’s creation in 1948, a fact that completely debunks Massad’s European colonial narrative about Israel. Massad offered no analysis of whether these Jews, who have their own indigenous history of Zionism, simply hail from converts in the Middle East.

Rather than the Jews, Massad claimed as the Holy Land’s “indigenous” population the Palestinians, a local Arab population whose ancestors derive largely from across the Middle East, including Egypt and Arabia. Egging him on, moderator Eid Mustafa, the board vice-chairman and treasurer of the Palestine Center’s parent organization, the Jerusalem Fund, invoked the hoary modern Palestinian claim that they descend from the ancient Canaanites. He claimed that an uncited Hebrew University genealogical study showed that “most of the [Jewish] Israelis have no connection to the land, while the Palestinians are the original Canaanites who have lived ever since history.”








						Columbia professor’s attempt to delegitimize Jews backfires—again
					

No rewarding conversation is possible with a racist demagogue like Joseph Massad. His slanders against Jews and Israel amply justify the denouncements of his tenure at Columbia.




					www.jns.org


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## Sixties Fan

Columbia professor Joseph Massad is very upset that Jews are claiming the right to self-determination. If Jews indeed have the right to self-determination, then opposing that really is a form of antisemitism, and antisemites like Massad cannot admit to that.

His normal method is to claim that Jews aren't a people, and that most Jews do not originate in the Middle East. If they aren't a people, then they have no right to self-determination.

But Massad knows that everyone knows that is a lie besides dyed in the wool antisemites who call Jews "Khazars." 

So he has come up with a new argument: that the self-determination argument was never a Zionist tenet, rather it was a Palestinian Arab one.


> Since the inception of their war against the Palestinian people, Zionist ideologues did not argue for Jewish self-determination but rather sought to delegitimise the indigenous Palestinians’ right to it. In the tradition of all colonial powers which denied that the colonised were a nation, the Zionists began by denying the nationness of the Palestinians.


Actually, the Zionists didn't even address the "nationness" of the Palestinian Arabs, who themselves didn't assert such a status (except for a tiny number of intellectuals) until decades after Zionism was established.



> At the Paris Peace Conference at the end of World War I, the Zionist Organisation (ZO) did not invoke any "Jewish" right to self-determination, even though self-determination was all the rage at the conference, with colonised peoples from around the world affirming this right to liberate themselves from the colonial yoke.
> The ZO instead argued that Palestine "is the historic home of the Jews…and through the ages they have never ceased to cherish the longing and the hope of a return".


Massad takes this statement out of context. The ZO's proposals were not meant to be a definition of Zionism, rather recommendations to the allies with an eye to what was politically possible. Even so, they did use the language of rights in their suggested conference statement: "The High Contracting Parties recognize the historic title of the Jewish people to Palestine and* the right of Jews to reconstitute in Palestine their National Home*. "
Massad then makes an astoundingly incorrect assertion:



> It is most important to note in this regard that, unlike the more recent and increased use by Zionists of the notion of Jewish self-determination, neither Herzl’s writings, the 1897 first Zionist Congress, the Balfour Declaration of 1917, nor the 1922 Palestine Mandate *employed the language of "rights"*, let alone the right of self-determination.


Herzl's definition was "Zionism has for its object the creation of a home,* secured by public rights*, for those Jews who either cannot or will not be assimilated in the country of their adoption."
The phrase "public rights" was coined by Italian jurist Pellegrino Rossi in the 1830s. It meant universal rights for people - what it now called human rights. Herzl's definition of Zionism was based on the idea that Jews have the same rights as any other people, which would by implication include self-determination, a phrase that didn't gain popularity until the 1910s. 
Massad cherry picks specific documents and statements and says that because they don't invoke "rights' or "self-determination,"then Zionists as a whole didn't use that language until recently.  That is laughable. 
A book on Zionism and the Jewish question by famed juror Louis Brandeis in 1915 says, "Jews collectively should enjoy *the same right and opportunity* to live and develop as do other groups of people."
Similarly, Jessie Ethel Sampter  published "A Course in Zionism "in 1915, and wrote, "The Jew is always foremost in every modem movement towards justice. In the 18th century he fought for individual human rights, as his rights. In the 20th century he fights for the rights of the small nations to life and autonomy,* also as his right.* It is the democracy of nations, internationalism. "
Massad is even wrong in his assertion that self-determination is a new claim by Zionists.  "A Jewish State in Palestine" by David Werner Amram (1918) says that the Zionist movement was partially a result of the "consciousness of the right of self-expression *and self-determination of the Jewish people*." The phrase did not have to be said explicitly by the early Zionists; it was well understood as one of many national rights that Jews should have as a people.
Similarly, the preface to a book written by the Zionist Organization in London in 1918 says, "Only by their resettlement in their ancestral land of Palestine...will the Jews be able to exercise *the right of self-determination."*

Early Zionists always asserted their national rights as the Jewish nation as well as the right of self-determination. It is not a new phenomenon. Massad's pretense that this is a new definition of Zionism is yet another failed attempt to delegitimize Zionism - and to push his brand of modern antisemitism. 





			https://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2022/11/joseph-massad-lying-again-claims-that.html


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## Sixties Fan

[ Satire ]

Our weekly column from the humor site PreOccupied Territory.








Washington, November 24 - The distant progeny of seventh-century invaders of the Levant from the Arabian Peninsula and of later immigrants from around the region voiced puzzlement today that the White people who colonized and eventually took over the New World have not followed the same playbook they themselves did, namely to insist that they were there since the dawn of time and therefore the only legitimate people with collective political rights in the area.

Pro-Palestinian activists and political figures wondered Thursday what might explain Europeans' collective neglect of a powerful tool in the rhetorical repertoire, namely claiming that one's people occupy the same territory since time began, and that others who make claims on that territory have no historical validity to do so - despite that claim flying in the face of all the evidence indicating that one's ancestors in fact came much later.
"It works well for us, and I can't imagine why Westerners don't do that same thing," stated Nour Erakat, a commentator and political activist. "It would be so much easier for the US, for example, to dismiss 'Indian' claims by calling those claims lies, as we do with Jewish claims to our land. My clan in particular came to Palestine in the nineteenth century, but that doesn't stop us from insisting we're the original inhabitants going back to prehistory. And that we always identified as 'Palestinian,' even though no native group ever referred to itself as such. It would be so much less complicated that the current mess those New World governments have to deal with, what with the treaties, reservations, and other hassles. Just get rid of those other people and say you were always there. What's the big deal?"

"I understand the Western reluctance to abandon the factual realm entirely," acknowledged James Zogby. "Without an anchor in documented history, the Western mind can't make coherent sense of the world. But with time, we can teach them to create narratives that do not rely on such a flimsy basis as 'facts' and 'evidence' - and that will free them to do as we have done, to deny the legitimacy of indigenous peoples restoring their political nationhood, by denying the historicity of any such nationhood."

"Also, if Muslims can claim pre-Islamic and Biblical figures as Muslim," he added, "why all the fuss over anachronism? Just call the Lenape New Yorkers and Seminole Floridians and be done with it. It works for Al-Khalil, Al-Quds, the Haram al-Sharif, and Al-Aqsa."









						Descendants Of Arab Conquerors Confused Why European Settlers In Americas Never Claimed Land Was Always Theirs (PreOccupied Territory)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

PA TV misrepresents Israeli coastal city Jaffa as in “Palestine”


> Official PA TV narrator: “The city of Jaffa… its location has a special significance because it overlooks the Mediterranean Sea, relatively warm and quiet waters, and therefore it is one of Palestine’s (sic., Israel’s) points of access to the Mediterranean Sea, and one of the country’s main gates to the west. Through it, Palestine connects to the Mediterranean Sea states and the states of Europe, Africa, and even America.” [Official PA TV, Palestinian Cities, Nov. 11, 2022]


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## Sixties Fan

The Cave of the Jewish Matriarch and Arab Cultural Appropriation
					

The Cave of the Jewish Matriarchs and Patriarchs is the site of the very first Jewish burial. It contains the remains of six of the seven original Jews (the seventh is located in the Tomb of Rachel in Bethlehem).




					www.israelunwired.com


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## Mindful

NOV. 28 2022
 0 PRINTEMAIL

In a recent search of the house of an individual suspected of stealing archaeological artifacts, Israeli authorities found a 2nd-century BCE bronze coin bearing a likeness of King Antiochus IV. *Michael Horovitz* writes:


> Antiochus IV was a Seleucid monarch remembered in Jewish history for his promotion of Hellenization and suppression of religious observances. While he was battling the rival Ptolemaic kingdom in Egypt for control of the Levant, Jewish zealots rose in revolt against Antiochus and the Hellenized high priest installed in Jerusalem’s Second Temple.
> Antiochus returned from Egypt and attempted to quell the uprising. After his death on a subsequent campaign in Persia, Hasmonean rebels led by Judah Maccabee and his clansmen succeeded in wresting control of Judea from the Seleucid Greeks, restoring the Temple and forming a Jewish kingdom that ruled for a century. The Hanukkah holiday celebrates the Maccabees’ victory over the Greeks and Hellenized Jews.
> According to [the numismatist] Danny Synon, what is unique about the currency series that the bronze Antiochus IV coin is part of is that it was minted during what he calls an “economic experiment” conducted by the monarch in which he allowed four municipalities to mint their own local coinage. One side of the “municipality coin” usually featured a local god, said Synon, and the other side was engraved with an image connected to the local area. In the case of the recently recovered coin, one side features the king, and the other shows a ship and the name of the port city of Tyre.





> Just in Time for Hanukkah, a Coin with Its Villain’s Face Is Discovered » Mosaic
> 
> 
> Together with a cache of looted artifacts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mosaicmagazine.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Mindful

Sixties Fan said:


>



Jeremy Corbyn. 

Thank goodness he never became PM.


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## Sixties Fan

Tadasa Tashume Ben Ma’ada died of his wounds three days after an Arab terrorist set off a bomb at the bus stop where Ben Ma’ada stood, awaiting his bus. Ben Ma’ada was murdered because he was a Jew, and he was buried as a Jew. But you might not have read about him in your newspaper. That’s because Ben Ma’ada doesn’t fit the CRT narrative of the Jew as white and privileged. Privileged he was, as a Jew who “came home” to Israel from Ethiopia 21 years ago, but white he was, of a certainty, not.

Not that it matters even one little bit. A Jew is a Jew is a Jew. It’s not that we “don’t see color.” It’s that *we don’t care*. Ben Ma’ada died _al Kiddush Hashem_, in sanctification of God’s name, because he was murdered precisely for belonging to the Jewish nation. That makes him holy. In Hebrew, in fact, martyrs are referred to as _kedoshim_, holy ones.
Ben Ma’ada wasn’t one of those “we are the real Jews” like Kyrie Irving, Ye West, or the Black Hebrew Israelites, but an actual real Jew who had zero interest in a trinity, or even Malcolm X.
Ben Ma’ada, after undergoing the Jewish purification ceremony, was buried in his _tallit_, his Jewish prayer shawl, like every other Israeli Jew. Those who paid their final respects, wore _kippot_, yarmulkes.

The Black Hebrew Israelites, on the other hand, during their recent march on New York in support of Kyrie Irvingdistributed leaflets that left no doubt as to their religious affiliations, reading in part:
“The biblical Israelites are targeted and accused of hate day and night without rest. Our knowledge of our heritage and laws has been systematically removed from us through the monstrous holocaust known as the trans-Atlantic slave trade. *They may lie to the world and deny us of our birthright, yet Jesus the Christ, our Black Messiah, confirms the truth of who we are. We are not antisemitic, we are Semitic.*”

To the Black Hebrew Israelites, it is Black Christians who are the real Jews, a nonsensical idea. Because the Jewish belief in one God, a belief certainly shared by the Jewish martyr Ben Ma’ada, is the diametric opposite of a belief in a trinity. For a Jew, it’s simple: God cannot be both dead and alive, nor is he a son of himself, while somehow a father, all at one and the same time. These ideas are not consonant with Jewish thought and practice, and would not have resonated with Ben Ma’ada, because he was a Jew like any other Jew.

(full article and tweets  online)










						Tadasa Tashume Ben Ma’ada: Killed Not for the Color of His Skin but for His Jewish Faith (Judean Rose)
					

Tadasa Tashume Ben Ma'ada was a real Jew but not because he was black.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

In early May 2021 Israeli authorities had to cope with a high level of unrest and accompanying violence on the part of Arabs in Israel in several locales; nowhere was the situation more intense than at the Temple Mount.

Those riots were incited by Hamas. During that time of unrest, as in several similar periods in the past, accusations were made by Palestinian Arab terror groups – whether the Palestinian Authority or Hamas – charging that the Jewish presence on the Mount was improper, infringed upon Arab Muslim rights, and had to cease.

Mahmoud Abbas of the PA, drawing on this theme back in September 2015, had charged:

“_The Al-Aksa [which refers to the mosque and also the entire compound of the Temple Mount] is ours…and they [Jews] have no right to defile it with their filthy feet.  We will not allow them to, and we will do everything in our power to protect Jerusalem_.”

The notion that Jerusalem (the Mount) has to be “protected” from Jews is part of a larger theme of incitement: In December 2020, an analyst on PA TV declared:

_“The Al-Aqsa Mosque is in danger of being bombed and destroyed. This is a true and serious Zionist threat.”_

In May 2021, the theme was similar, when Khaled Mashal, a leader of Hamas, declared:

“_The most important conditions are the exit of occupying Israel from Al-Aksa Mosque, the recognition of freedom of worship to our people and Muslims in Al-Aksa Mosque_…”

Mashal drew upon the motif of Muslim rights to freedom of worship, which is a flashpoint for Muslim Arab anger.  But there was more: *the charge that Jews are “occupiers” on the Mount and must leave because they have no place there*.

*What is being said here should not be missed: it goes to the heart of what is happening with regard to the Temple Mount*.

There was a time in decades past when Muslim Arabs recognized the Jewish connection to the Temple Mount.  Consider these two examples among many:

[] A nine-page English-language tourist guide entitled “A Brief Guide to _al-Haram al-Sharif_ [the Temple Mount] was published by the Supreme Moslem Council in 1925.  It states that the Temple Mount site “is one of the oldest in the world. Its sanctity dates from the earliest times. *Its identity with the site of Solomon’s Temple is beyond dispute*.” (Emphasis added)


https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/supreme-moslem-council-recognized-jewish-connection-to-temple-mount

[] Some 25 kilometers southwest of Jerusalem in the village of Nuba is found the Mosque of Umar, which bears an ancient inscription that dates to the 9th or 10th century CE.  It says that the mosque is an endowment for the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aksa Mosque (see below for more on these).  *What is noteworthy is that the Dome of the Rock is referred to in the inscription as “the rock of the Bayt al-Maqdis” — literally, “The Holy Temple.”*








(full article online)










						The Temple Mount: Whose Is It? - Jews Down Under
					

In early May 2021 Israeli authorities had to cope with a high level of unrest and accompanying viole




					jewsdownunder.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Likkmee

Moses spoke to the Red Sea and told it to part. It didn't. They took a right and hauled ass.
That's where Ukraine came from


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## Sixties Fan

CAMERA’s Israel office today prompted correction of Reuters’ Nov. 25 article (“Israeli far-right’s Ben-Gvir to be national security minister under coalition deal“) which had qualified the historical fact that the Jewish temples were located on the Temple Mount as unverified.



The Temple Mount on a stormy day (Photo by Akiva Sternthal)

While archeologists are in total agreement that the Jewish temples stood on the Temple Mount, Chacar reported this information as merely a claim, referring to “The site, *said *to have once housed two ancient Jewish temples . . . ” (Emphasis added).

There is no archeological dispute about the fact that the Jewish temples were located on the Temple Mount. As _The New York Times_ was compelled to acknowledge in a 2015 correction:



> An earlier version of this article misstated the question that many books and scholarly treatises have never definitively answered concerning the two ancient Jewish temples. The question is where precisely on the 37-acre Temple Mount site the temples had once stood, not whether the temples had ever existed there.


Indeed, Reuters itself has rightly cited as recently as August the “ancient temples which once stood on the site.”



(full article online)










						Reuters Corrects: Ancient Jewish Temples Were Located On Temple Mount
					

CAMERA prompts correction after Reuters qualified the historical fact that the Jewish temples were located on the Temple Mount as unverified, citing 'The site,




					www.camera.org


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## Sixties Fan

I saw once again today the assertion, in an academic paper, that Arabs and Jews lived quite well together in the late 19th century in Palestine. I looked at the footnote and it refers to a 2014 paper by Menachem Klein, which brings an impressive amount of evidence for cooperation between the  Jews of Palestine and the Arabs, including Arabic words that became part of Palestinian Yiddish and Yiddish words that became part of Arabic, as well as evidence of the groups working together, even politically, in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

Whenever I read this sort of thing, I wonder how this jives with anecdotal evidence of derision and insults from Arabs to Jews in the 19th century. For example, John MacGregorpublished in 1870 that _"Men in Palestine call their fellows 'Jew' as the very lowest of all possible words of abuse."  
_
In an 1824 letter from Rev. W. B. Lewis to the London Society, he writes, _"Jerusalem is truly miserable, groaning under the tyranny of the oppressor. Jews...are subject to daily insults, and are shamefully and inhumanly oppressed."_ He then gives page after page of examples of Muslims treating Jews like garbage, stealing from them, the Ottoman authorities falsely accusing Jews and their Rabbinic leaders of petty crimes and torturing them and extorting obscene sums of money as fines. (See below)

James Finn, the British consul to Jerusalem from 1846-1863, says that Jerusalem Jews were forced to bury their dead at night: - _"the usual practice is to pay the gate-keeper to let them out of the town in the middle of the night, and this from fear of having the dead disinterred by Moslems or Christians."
_
There were pogroms against Jews in 1834 in Hebron and Safed, in 1837 in Safed again, and in 1847 a Jewish boy was accused of a blood libel in Jerusalem.

How can we reconcile the stories of Arab abuse of and attacks on Jews in Palestine with the academics who claim that Jews and Arabs lived so cooperatively?

It appears that before the 1840s, the Jews were indeed treated like dirt. Then things started changing. The reason is that the increasing number of European Jews could appeal to their own governments for protection, starting in that decade. Different European powers even competed for influence in the Ottoman Empire and protecting Jews gave them more power. Oddly, in 1848 the Russians told their Jewish subjects that they would no longer be protected, and the British consul stepped in to be their protector. This protection made it much harder for Jews to be routinely harassed by the Arabs - being backed by European powers suddenly gave the Jews powers they hadn't had beforehand.

Only after the Jews came under the protection of European states did the Arabs start to treat the Jews with more respect. The Ottoman leaders were no longer able to mistreat most of their Jewish subjects out of fear of creating an international incident.






It is an old story: Arabs respect power. When Jews were powerless, Arabs treated them like garbage. Only when they had some protection did the Arabs start to "live with them together in peace." Did the Arabs suddenly become philosemitic? Of course not. But they were practical: The Jews couldn't be attacked with impunity anymore.

And that is the story of Israel in a nutshell. When Israel acts weak, it invites Arab (now, Palestinian) derision and attacks. Acting strong is the only formula for peace. It isn't a peace based on love or friendship, but a peace based on respect. 

It is no different now than in was 200 years ago.

(Some information here comes from _Arabs and Jews in Ottoman Palestine: Two Worlds Collide_, by Alan Dowty.) 












						Did Arabs and Jews live in peace in 19th century Palestine?
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## rylah

High On The Har + Rabbi Pini Dunner: Ascending To The Temple Mount​


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## rylah

Looters Caught Red Handed in Ancient Cave near Bedouin City of Rahat​





Last Tuesday, the Antiquities Theft Prevention Unit in the Israel Antiquities Authority caught a team of three antiquity robbers “on the job” while they were excavating and destroying historical layers in an Ottoman well next to the cemetery of the Bedouin city of Rahat in the Negev. The robbers are suspected of searching for a hidden treasure, which, according to a Bedouin myth, was buried in the well, inside a cave.

The archaeological site of Horvat Maaravim, near Rahat, which features ancient remains from the Roman, Byzantine, Early Islamic, and Ottoman periods, was being watched by the IAA. On Tuesday, in the early evening, suspicious figures were seen approaching the site and entering the cave with the rock-hewn water well on the southern side of the site.

The IAA Antiquities Theft Prevention Unit inspectors hurried to the site, and reached the cave entrance without being detected, to catch the robbers in the act of digging up the archaeological site.

The suspects, in their twenties, were arrested—with the assistance of Border Patrol Police and the security staff of the Rahat municipality—and were taken for questioning overnight.

One of the looters had been arrested and charged for a similar offense in 2020 when he was placed on six-months probation and was fined NIS 30,000 ($8,735).

“After the summer heat, we witness an increase in antiquity robbing activities,” said IAA Director, Eli Escusido. “The Israel Antiquities Authority is busy combatting the phenomenon of antiquity theft day and night. The looters are motivated by greed, and they rip the finds from their archaeological context, damaging the country’s heritage.”














						Looters Caught Red Handed in Ancient Cave near Bedouin City of Rahat
					

The site was being watched by the IAA.




					www.jewishpress.com


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## Sixties Fan

PA is allowing residents to cause environmental, archaeological damage
					

I appeal to the American people: Your tax dollars that are being funneled to the Palestinian Authority are not helping the Arab population under its rule.




					www.jpost.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

A famous Swedish television game show presented a map of Israel with “Palestine” written on it alongside a Palestinian flag in one of its trivia quizzes.

During the semi-finals of the game show “Free for All” presented on Sweden’s Channel 5 on Monday, contestants were presented with a quiz on famous Swedish singer Laila Bagge Wahlgren, whose mother is Swedish and father a Palestinian.

The map was presented following a question asking contestants to answer where Wahlgren’s father was born, and detailed only Arab and mixed cities, alongside ancient sites like Jerusalem, Jaffa, Haifa, Nazareth, Ramallah, Gaza, and more. Tel Aviv was excluded from the map.

The Israeli Embassy to Sweden posted a question in a format similar to the gameshow, on their Twitter account, asking: “what should Channel 5 and the show’s producer do when they present a map with no mention of Israel? 1. Check the graphics, 2. Do more research, 3. Apologize, 4. All of the above.”
The game show’s producer apologized following the post. “It was a mistake, we’ll fix it as soon as possible, I apologize,” he wrote on his Twitter account. Swedish media also reported the incident.


Sweden’s Jewish Youth Association also took to Twitter, writing that “the map you presented was wrong in several aspects – if it was supposed to present Mandatory Palestine, the flag is wrong. The map is wrong both from a historic and modern perspective. It was clearly a modern map from which Israel and its cities were removed.”
“According to the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition, antisemitism is denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination and wishing for Israel to stop existing,” they said. 

Israeli ambassador to Sweden Ziv Nevo Kolman said the map was shocking. "We challenged the show’s producers with an interactive response that drew attention and was covered positively in Swedish media,” he said.









						Swedish game show presents map of Palestine, not Israel
					

Map only names Arab and ancient cities in Israel leaving out Israeli towns like Tel Aviv; 'it was a mistake we’ll fix as soon as possible' show's producer promises




					www.ynetnews.com


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## Sixties Fan

Young Iraqi Jews who fled to pre-state Israel following the 1941 Farhud pogrom in Baghdad. Photo: Moshe Baruch

This November, CAMERA on Campus observed Mizrahi Heritage Month through the latest iteration of our Mizrahi Stories campaign, a collaborative effort with numerous organizations and partners.

The campaign included participants from the United States, Canada, Israel, and the United Kingdom, and was a community-wide effort to bring visibility to the Jewish communities of North Africa and the Middle East, whose stories are not often represented in the media, academia, and the portrayal of Jews in popular culture.

The prominent role of Mizrahim in Israel’s founding counters the libelous claims by detractors such as Jewish Voice for Peace, Within Our Lifetime, and Students for Justice in Palestine, which often attempt to slander Zionism.

Anti-Israel detractors often claim that the State of Israel was founded on a “settler-colonial white supremacist ideology.” When the State of Israel was established in 1948, 850,000 Mizrahi Jews were either expelled from or left surrounding Arab and Muslim countries in response to violence, threats, and abuse by their Arab neighbors and rulers. Most found refuge and settled in the State of Israel, joining the diverse confluence of Mizrahi, Ashkenazi, and Sephardic Jews that emigrated earlier to the Levant in several waves between 1882 and 1948.

Contrary to the narrative propagated by the aforementioned anti-Zionist groups, Zionism has been a longstanding feature of Mizrahi Jewish communities. Many have long maintained their connection to Eretz Yisrael in their prayers, traditions, and festivities.

Rising antisemitism in the Middle East, partially perpetuated by Hajj Amin Al-Husseini and the shifting political landscape of the 19th and 20th centuries, prompted Mizrahi Jews to return to Israel. Yemenite Jews immigrated to Jerusalem as early as 1882. Furthermore, in 1941, seven years before the establishment of the State of Israel, an estimated 15,000 Iraqi Jews fled the country in response to the Farhud, a violent pogrom led by the Nazi-aligned Iraqi government of Rashid Ali.

And these are only two examples of several communities that returned to the land of Israel before the establishment of a Jewish state.

While the confluence of Western and Eastern influences on Diaspora Jews meant that the State of Israel faced many challenges in its infancy, calling Zionism a form of “European colonialism” or “white supremacy” erases the contributions of Mizrahi Jews to the Jewish state, and the long-standing commitment of the country to prioritize the return of Jews, including Mizrahim to Israel.

Furthermore, such an assertion overlooks the plight of Ashkenazi Jews who experienced antisemitism, including Nazism — which is perhaps the most dangerous form of white supremacy.

Let’s be clear: Israel was founded as and remains a refuge for all Jews.

In 1950, just two years after its founding, the State of Israel led Operation Magic Carpet, airlifting thousands of Yemenite Jews from Aden to Israel. When Jews in Yemen heard of this operation, some walked for weeks to reach the city for a chance to make it to Israel. And as mentioned, Israel absorbed over 800,000 Jews across the Middle East and North Africa.

Modern-day Israel has maintained this commitment to help all Jews. In May of 1991, Israel carried out Operation Solomon, airlifting over 14,000 Ethiopian Jews in less than 36 hours from Ethiopia to the State of Israel.

By highlighting the story of Mizrahi Jews, our Mizrahi Stories campaign shows that Israel is not a colonial endeavor, but the fulfillment of the ancient Jewish desire to return to our homeland. Zionism was essential not only for the persecuted Jews in Europe, but also for the Jews of the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) region, who also experienced intense persecution.



(full article online)










						Mizrahi Jews: The Beauty of Jewish Diversity and the Lie of Israeli ‘Colonialism’
					

Young Iraqi Jews who fled to pre-state Israel following the 1941 Farhud pogrom in Baghdad. Photo: Moshe Baruch This November, …




					www.algemeiner.com


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## Sixties Fan

Recently, we marked, as we do every year, November 29, the date of the historic United Nations decision to partition the British Mandate of Palestine into Arab and Jewish states. It has also come to be designated by the U.N. as “International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People.” But even as the Palestinians and their supporters seek to rebrand the day and to cast Israel as a colonial, apartheid state, and an unscrupulous violator of human rights, one must point out the unflattering truth—the Palestinian campaign is about privilege and supremacy of the Arabs and Palestinians, and not about justice.

Many readers will be scratching their heads at this point, as privilege and supremacy are usually associated with white Europeans and Americans and not the seemingly poor and oppressed Palestinians. But they would be missing the obvious truth—privilege and supremacy are not exclusively white, but are borne of deep-seated perceptions of superiority by those groups who are in power, especially if they have held power for a long time. Some societies manifest it in a caste system, others do so by formally making religious or ethnic minorities into second-class citizens.

Jews were second-class citizens in the areas controlled by the various incarnations of Arab or Islamic rule over the centuries, and this only ended after the fall of the Ottoman Empire in World War I. This happened all over the Middle East including in the Holy Land, where Jews have been living for centuries in holy cities such as Jerusalem, Tiberias, Hebron and Safed.

Jews were taxed for being non-Muslims; ofttimes they were persecuted (although less than in “enlightened” Europe), and were treated, as one Egyptian Jew described it, as “guests in their own home.” For most of that time, Jews were unable to own land, were confined to live in certain areas, and were subject to random acts of violence from their neighbors.

It is no wonder that when the “second-class” Jews were suddenly equal rights citizens under the British mandate, the Arabs chafed under what seemed sacrilegious—a Jew enjoying the same rights as an Arab. No land was confiscated from Arabs and no houses were demolished; mostly uninhabited lands were bought and developed, but the anger simmered.

Even as the British tore away parts of the land destined for the Jewish homeland and created the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, Jews were building hamlets and prospering by the fruit of their labor without depriving the local Arab population. Yet, the Arab anger continued to grow. It was “unjust” and “unnatural” and the “good Arab boys” indeed took matters into their hands—Jewish homes, businesses and hamlets were the targets of brazen criminal behavior and outright racist attacks, especially during “the Great Revolt” (1936-1939) against the British that saw Arabs destroy Jewish communities in Hebron, Jerusalem, the Galilee, and the Negev, killing over 400 Jews (though Arab casualties were far more severe, over 5,000 dead).

Palestinian apologists try to explain it away as budding nationalism and anger at the demographic changes, but this happened all over the Middle East and North Africa (MENA)—it was far from confined to the Holy Land. In Iraq, the notorious Farhud in 1941 saw Iraqis kill at least 180 Jews, wound over 2,000 and ransack the homes and properties of thousands. In Egypt, attacks on Jews in Cairo occurred in 1938 and 1945. The racist treatment intensified to a crescendo of violence against Jews as Israel was established—attacks on Jews were the norm, their properties were confiscated, and many were arrested or detained in camps. Around nine hundred thousand Jews were thus forced to migrate and leave most of their property behind. Second-class residents indeed.

Why is this about racism and privilege and not mere discord between nations? First, it was widespread and commonplace throughout the MENA region; there was not a single Arab or Middle Eastern country that didn’t see its Jewish community decimated and abused—in the same way that no state in the American Confederacy treated blacks as nothing but slaves, and less than whites, after the civil war.

Second, the rejection of the right of Jews to self-determination in their ancient homeland is pervasive. The notion of Zionism, the national movement of the Jewish people, is described in the most derogatory terms—colonialism, racism, Apartheid, crimes against humanity. The rejection of the right to be an Israeli or a Zionist is evident in academia, sports (including harassing Israeli journalists in the “safe environment” of the soccer World Cup in Qatar), culture and literature, just for the crime of supporting Jewish self-determination in the Holy Land.

Third, the Palestinians and their supporters are out to redefine history as part of denying Jewish claims to the Holy Land. In the Palestinian version of reality (which was adopted by UNESCO, in a controversy that led the U.S. to exit the agency), only Muslims have a sacred connection to the Temple Mount (known to Muslims as the Haram al-Sharif). Make no mistake about it, this is racist to the core.

Fourth, when the Palestinians rose against the British, they did so after rejecting the idea of a pluralist country with a common parliament for Jews and Arabs. They were not fighting to get more rights—their rights were never compromised—but to return to the “good old system” where Jews “knew their place” and were kept nicely under the boot of the Arabs. Even if one accepts the notion of a local nationalist awakening, one must reject its racist elements against the Jewish minority.

Fifth, the utter rejection of the notion of Jewish indigenousness. Not only were the ties between Jews and their homeland denied, Palestinians and their supporters also deny Jews of Arab descent their hard-earned heritage. They harass Jews for cooking their traditional Middle Eastern foods or singing in Arabic and accuse them of cultural appropriation from the Palestinians, even though these are part of their centuries-old Middle Eastern heritage.

Sixth, Palestinians maintained their privilege through the decades. They are the only refugees that have their own agency, which has received tens of billions of dollars over the years, and their refugee status is permanent and passed on to their descendants. They also have two other dedicated U.N. agencies.

If you do not believe me, you can just look at the signs the Palestinian supporters carry. They do not hide their racist agenda and they yearn openly for the “good old days”—just look at the sign with several maps depicting the shrinking of Palestine, and you will see a pristine map showing 100% ownership of land by Palestinians prior to 1917 (though many signs now remove that map and only show the situation during 1917).

Stating this is not a defense of the wrongdoings that occur (way too often) as Israel continues to occupy the West Bank. One can, and should, criticize Israel for actions that fall outside appropriate and lawful action to defend its citizens from attacks, and for the unjust seizure of lands owned by Palestinians. Israel’s legal system is largely attentive to such issues and attempts to correct them (if not always in a timely or satisfactory manner in the eyes of its detractors). This very system is now besieged by those who find it too lenient toward the Palestinians.

But none of it matters to Palestinian supporters. They continue to proudly put these vile maps on signs, to contrast the “evil” Israeli occupation, with the seemingly natural and “good” status before 1917. Yet, we all know which system creates such “pristine” maps—it is called Apartheid. The centuries of Apartheid that Jews had to endure under the Arab control of the Holy Land. Are the maps and those who proudly hold the aloft racist or not? You be the judge.







						The Palestinian issue is about supremacy, not justice
					

Privilege and supremacy are usually associated with white Europeans and Americans and not the seemingly poor and oppressed Palestinians.




					www.jns.org


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

[ Settlers.  Stormed.  Oh, my !!!  ]


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## Sixties Fan

Back in 2013, I wrote an article about a curious phenomenon: some early Muslim coins, minted mostly in Jerusalem, featured a menorah.

The earliest such coins were clearly copied from older Judean coins that featured the Temple menorah, with a seven branched menorah clearly visible. Here's an astonishing example that also includes a six pointed star on the other side, although Muslims also used that star in various motifs.





But soon they morphed to a different styled menorah, although the menorah was still associated with Jerusalem.




This one says on the obverse, "Aliya, Madinet Bayit al-Maqdis" - meaning Aelia Capitolina, the Roman name for Jerusalem, and "City of the Holy Temple."

There were two main differences between the original Jewish style menorah and the one that Muslims started putting on their coins. The Jewish representations of menorahs during the Byzantine period on medals and mosaics had seven branches and a three legged base:









The new Muslim "menorahs," though, while still associated with Jerusalem, changed the base to 2 legs, the number of branches to 5, and they put a line across the top of the menorah.







At the time, some Muslim coins used "visual puns" where a different picture would be seen upside down than right side up. Back in 2013, I mentioned  that coin collectors had noted that the upside down version of the Muslim menorah resembles the Dome of the Rock, with the two-pronged Islamic crescent on top.






Another dome-like coin:





Once you see it upside down, it's hard to think it is a coincidence. After all, what kind of candelabra has a solid bar across its cups?

This could account for the changes to the menorah appearance to look more dome-like.

A few years after my post, some Israeli researchers came to the same conclusion, which was debated in certain circles. But a new proof for the upside down theory came from the discovery of an important inscription  that was found in Nuba, near Hebron, in 2016:




> A team of archaeologists revealed the existence of a 1000-year-old text, dated to the beginning of the Islamic era, which indicates that the *Muslims perceived the Dome of the Rock as a reestablishment of the earlier Jewish Temple*. They referred to it as “Bayt al-maqdis” in the inscription, which derives from the biblical Hebrew terminology as ‘Beit Hamikdash’, known as the Hebrew reference to the Holy Temple.


Turning the coins upside down could easily symbolize replacing the Jewish Temple, represented by the menorah, with the Dome of the Rock where early Muslims performed their own Temple-like rituals - and called it the "Bayt al-Maqdis," a term that later on started referring to all of Jerusalem.

Whatever the intent of the early Muslims were, though, the menorah on their Jerusalem coins proves that they associated Jerusalem with Jews and the Temple - both of which Palestinians deny today. 

They are also trying to turn Jerusalem's history upside down. 











						Why did the Muslims put a menorah on their coins? Could be to symbolize Islamic supremacy.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

[ Oh, Yeah. !!!!  Jesus was a Palestinian.  Forefather of the modern Palestinians.  Right !!!!   And I have a few Oasis to sell you.   .   And what exactly is Palestinian original food which has not been appropriated from all other areas of the Middle East and people?  ]


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## Sixties Fan

_Haaretz_, an influential Israeli media outlet whose name means “Land [of Israel],” has published a stylized map of “Palestine” erasing Israel.



The Dec. 19 article, “How ‘Baladi’ Became the Star of Israeli Cuisine and a Key to Palestinian Identity and Resistance,” (and in the Dec. 16 weekend print edition) includes an illustrated map of Israel and the Palestinian territories prepared by the Sarendib NGO which expunges Israel, referring only to “Palestine.” _Haaretz_‘s own caption uncritically adopted the organization’s erasure of Israel, initially stating: “A map showing baladi produce in Palestine by Sarendib, a Palestinian educational NGO based in Haifa.Credit: Sarendib 2022″

(vide map online)

CAMERA’s Israel office reached out to _Haaretz, _urging either revision of the caption to correctly refer to Israel and the Palestinian territories, or clear designation of Sarendib’s terminology as problematic given that it erases Israel off the map.
Editors made a completely inconsequential edit to the digital version, adding scare quotes to the word “map,” as if that made the complete erasure of Israel any more acceptable. As one CAMERA Arabic researcher quipped, “Map is the one word that should not get air quotes, unlike ‘Palestine,’ ‘Palestinian’ and ‘educational,’ and probably also ‘NGO.'”

When CAMERA Arabic previously called out BBC Arabic for promoting a very similar Sarendib mapfeaturing Palestine from the river to the sea, the British news outlet subsequently pulled its promotional feature, demonstrating more accountability than _Haaretz_ on the same issue.
In 2020, CAMERA Arabic wrote about _Vogue Arabia_‘s laudatory piece on an “artistic” map erasing Israel:



> A map labelled “Palestine,” covering Israel, the West Bank and Gaza, is hateful and incites violence, no matter how many flowers bloom upon it. Such maps express a desire to eliminate the state of Israel, depriving its Jewish people of their right of self determination, meaning a sovereign, peaceful and prosperous life in their ancestral homeland. Even if [Turkish artist Adige] Batur’s vision for the elimination of the state of Israel would allow for some Jews to remain in “Palestine,” his artistic erasure of everything Jewish indicates a desire to assimilate the Jews of Israel and their communities into a hostile Arab environment that historically has shown little tolerance towards Jews and other minorities.



The same can be said of a map bursting with succulent, indigenous produce, even one published by “The Land of Israel” newspaper.
Indeed, Sarendib founder Malsam Arafat and her husband Omar Asi are quite open about their maps’ intentions. They explain (in Arabic 16:16) that the maps they create are deliberately “without occupation” (i.e., without Israel or Jews). Asi insists that it is important to present Palestine that way “even to children … the child sees that it is all Palestine.” The host continues: “[Palestine] as it was and as it must become,” to which Asi replies “exactly.”

At 9:24, Asi recounts that the food he chose to represent Jerusalem in the map which BBC Arabic later removed is a reference to a book by Hamas mass murderer Abdullah Barghouthi, a choice he hopes will expose children to “Palestinian prison literature.”

Sarendib’s maps apparently exceeded all expectations, not only roping in impressionable Palestinian youth, but also snagging a century-old institution, Zionist in name if not content.
_With research and translation by CAMERA Arabic._





			https://www.camera.org/article/haaretz-publishes-palestine-map-erasing-israel/


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## Sixties Fan

Challenging the false anti-Israel narrative with facts
					

They demonise Jews for telling the truth while they spread fake narratives. This is our history. We must defend it or it will be stolen away.




					david-collier.com


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## Sixties Fan

[Lies will not get one an Oscar Nomination ]

A controversial Jordanian film portraying Israeli soldiers as merciless killers failed to make it onto a shortlist of 15 films that will vie for the Academy Awards next year, according to an announcement on Wednesday by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences.

"Farha," a debut by Jordanian director Darin Sallam, came under fire in Israel as it alleges Zionist atrocities against Palestinians during the 1948-49 War of Independence, initiated by invading Arab armies.

Israeli officials accused Sallam of "creating a false narrative" as the film includes a shocking 15-minute scene during which Israeli soldiers massacre a family of Palestinian refugees, including a baby.


(full article online)










						Challenging the false anti-Israel narrative with facts
					

They demonise Jews for telling the truth while they spread fake narratives. This is our history. We must defend it or it will be stolen away.




					david-collier.com


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## Sixties Fan

[ Who is going to tell all of these Arabs the truth about Jesus and the term Palestinian?  If only they would read the Quran.  It is all in there. And the fact that they are NOT Palestinians is also there, and many other Muslim writings ]


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## rylah

*Incoming Heritage Minister MK Amihai Eliyahu against the European Union: "I will act with all my might against any foreign involvement"*

The European in its brazenness violates Israel's sovereignty and acts contrary to the law and human morality, and to international treaties of heritage preservation that it led to writing. 
It's going to end.


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

As Palestinian Media Watch has repeatedly exposed, an integral part of the Palestinian Authority’s “narrative” to undermine Israel’s legitimacy is to claim that Jews lack any historical connection to the land of Israel and that the creation of Israel was nothing more than an act of western colonization. To support their historical revision, PA leaders and officials often claim there was a secret plan formulated by British Prime Minister Sir Henry Campbell-Bannerman, to plant “*a foreign body in the middle of the people of the Arab nation in order to fragment its solidarity, steal its resources, and prevent its revival*.” This according to the PA historical revision is the sole reason for the establishment of the state of Israel. Similar to many other parts of the PA narrative, the claim regarding the Campbell-Bannerman conspiracy is a complete lie lacking any factual or evidentiary basis. In fact, honest Muslim-Arab scholars who have tried to prove this document’s authenticity eventually admitted that no such document exists.

An article written by Prof Dr. Mohsen Mohammad Saleh, who heads the Al-Zaytouna Centre for Studies and Consultations, a Lebanese research institute that “focuses on the Palestinian issue and the conflict with Israel as well as related Palestinian, Arab, Islamic and international developments,” wanted to determine the origins of the so-called “Campbell-Bannerman document”.

Although his goal was to attempt to authenticate the document, Salah was disappointed:



> “In short, I became curious about the issue. In one visit to Britain, *I therefore set out to investigate, it but found no trace or source of it*!!”
> [Website of Al-Zaytouna, _Political Analysis: Is the “Campbell-Bannerman Document”: Real or Fake?_,  Sept. 29, 2017]​


In the article, Salah exposes how Dr. Anis Sayegh (who Salah refers to as “one of the leading researchers in modern Palestinian history, and head of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Research Center between 1966 and 1976”) discovered the origin of the alleged document. According to the account, the document was first referenced after an incidental discussion between an Egyptian named Antoun Canaan (“the first Arab to reference the Campbell-Bannerman document in a published work”) and an unidentified Indian man, sitting next to him on a plane:

In his account, he mentions when he served as chairman of the PLO think tank, that he was keen to reach the “important document,” but could not find a single established source for it in dozens of references and books citing it, including works by reliable writers such as Buhran al-Dajani, Munthir Antabawi, Khairi Hamad, and Shafiq Irshidat. Each of them referenced another in a sort of a circular way.

For this reason, Dr. Anis Sayegh decided to dedicate time to research the document in Britain, spending a whole month in the British National Archives, the British Museum library, and Cambridge University where Campbell-Bannerman had studied and deposited his entire private documents collection. Dr. Sayegh also examined the archives of The Times newspaper covering the period 1904–1907, and found thousands of references to the imperialist colonial conference, but found nothing about the document itself.



> *After returning empty handed to Beirut, he had the chance to learn that the first Arab to reference the Campbell-Bannerman document in a published work was Antoun Canaan*. He went to Egypt where Antoun was living, and met him after some time searching and seeking him out. *He was surprised to hear from him that when he travelled from Palestine to London to study law in the mid-1940s, he met in the plane an Indian man sitting next him. The man told him he remembers reading about a colonial conference held in London attended by delegates from several colonial powers to discuss the partition of the Arab nations, prevent their reunification, and the establishment of a Jewish state, but the Indian man did not give Canaan any documented academic material regarding the document*.”
> [Website of Al-Zaytouna, _Political Analysis: Is the “Campbell-Bannerman Document”: Real or Fake?_,  Sept. 29, 2017]​


While Salah notes “Our failure to secure the document does not prove its non-existence in the same or different form,” he adds, “at the same time we cannot claim something exists, when this is far from being conclusively established.”

Salah concludes the article by equating the alleged Campbell-Bannerman document to the thoroughly discredited “Protocols of the Elders of Zions” and the so-called “promise of Napoléon” in 1798… cited in some Arab and Islamic literature without evidence”:



> Thus, *the Campbell-Bannerman document is added to the so-called “The Protocols of the Elders of Zions” and the so-called “promise of Napoléon” in 1798, which were also never authenticated*, yet are still being cited in some Arab and Islamic literature without evidence.
> [Website of Al-Zaytouna, _Political Analysis: Is the “Campbell-Bannerman Document”: Real or Fake?_,  Sept. 29, 2017]​


The full version of Salah’s article appears below. 


(full article online)







						Bursting the bubble of another PA lie: The Campbell-Bannerman conspiracy | PMW Analysis
					

Debunking another baseless PA conspiracy




					palwatch.org


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## Sixties Fan

According to TJ and Ir Amim, the Jews are stealing away Christian land.

In reality, they legally purchased the rights to the land, and it will become available for millions of Christians to visit!

These people who pretend to be defending Jerusalem prefer that precious historical site be strewn with garbage and inaccessible to all rather than fixed up and available to all.

The transfer of the lease is legal, above board and helps improve Jerusalem. 

Which begs the question: who really cares about Jerusalem? 

Certainly not Terrestrial Jerusalem or Ir Amim. 

(full article online)









						Who actually cares about Jerusalem? Not the NGOs that pretend to
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

I was complimented some time ago by a reader of one of my earlier published articles, titled, _Lies, Myths and Obama_, which dealt – as many of them do – with the history of Israel and its enemies: Biblical and post-Biblical.

I had included in the article the following sentence: “Only one people has ever made Jerusalem its capital and only one people ever established their ancestral and Biblical homeland between the River Jordan and the Mediterranean Sea: the Jews.”

I had also added that: “the Jews were the indigenous inhabitants of the Land for millennia long before the Muslim religion was created.”

The reader, nevertheless, had correctly pointed out that most people, because they have been exposed for so long to anti-Israel Arab propaganda, believe that there has not been a continuous Jewish presence in the Land during the last 2,000 years. They are thus unaware that the territory was never _Judenrein_ (that is empty of a Jewish presence). And most Arabs and a hate filled world would rather you forget also that Jews lived for millennia in Mesopotamia or what became later known as British created Iraq.

Indeed, Jews had resided for nearly 3,000 years in that territory from the Babylonian Captivity in 586 BCE onwards. It was when Israel was reborn in 1948 that the Iraqi Arabs drove the Jews from their ancient homes, turning them into penniless refugees who found sanctuary in Israel; an impoverished country barely able to support them at the time.

More Jewish refugees were created than Arab refugees as one Arab state after another in the Middle East and North Africa drove out their Jewish populations. A monumental crime, which hardly is ever recognized.

Arabs and their anti-Israel supporters try to convince the world that the Jews just appeared in the early 20th century after being dispersed for two thousand years from their Biblical homeland. That is a flat out lie and flies in the face of recorded history. Indeed the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians do not even acknowledge ancient Biblical Jewish history ever existed. But facts never seem to matter to Arabs and pro-Arabs. So this brief history lesson will be for them an inconvenient truth.

Let me start by quoting from an article written in_ The Weekly Standard_, May 11, 1998 by Charles Krauthammer:

*"Israel is the very embodiment of Jewish continuity: It is the only nation on earth that inhabits the same land, bears the same name, speaks the same language, and worships the same God that it did 3,500 years ago. You dig the soil and you find pottery from Davidic times, coins from Bar Kokhba, and 2,000-year-old scrolls written in a script remarkably like the one today advertising ice cream at an Israeli corner candy store."*

The Jewish People trace their origin to Abraham (Avraham), he who is called the Holy Convert, the first Jew, who established the divine belief in the One and Only God and Savior besides whom there is None Other. Abraham, his son _Yitzhak_ (Isaac), and grandson _Yaakov_ (Jacob - Israel), are referred to as the patriarchs of the Israelites who lived in what was then the Land of Canaan; later to become known as the Land of Israel. They and their wives are buried in the _Ma'arat HaMachpela_, the Tomb of the Patriarchs, in Hebron, Judaism’s second holiest city. (Genesis Chapter 23).

The name, Israel, (_Yisrael_) derives from the name given to Jacob (Genesis 32:29). His 12 sons were the ancestors of the 12 tribes that later developed into the Jewish nation. The name Jew derives from _Yehuda_ (Judah) one of the 12 sons of Jacob. You will find the names of the tribes listed in Exodus 1:1. _Yehuda_ (Judea) is also the Biblical name of the southern region of what the same hostile world calls by its Arab name – the 'West Bank'. _Shomron_ (Samaria) is the Biblical Hebrew name for the northern half. Modern Israel shares the same language, culture, and Jewish faith passed through generations starting with the founding father Abraham. The Jews have had a continuous presence in the land of Israel for the past 3,500 years.

In 70 CE, Rome destroyed the Holy Temple in Jerusalem and conquered the Jewish nation, but only part of the population was sent into exile.

The pillaging of holy vessels is clearly seen on the Arch of Titus.

----------
A brief list of Jews returning to the ancestral land reveals a constant arrival of people joining existing Jewish villages and towns, themselves always at the mercy of alien occupiers.

According to the Center for Online Judaic Studies, here are just a few of the names of early Jewish returnees:

1075:1141 Yehuda Halevi, poet.

1135: 1204 Maimonides, philosopher.(who, although he had to flee Cordoba's antisemitism as a young boy, has been welcomed posthumously by that city in the statue below)

1210: Immigration in Israel of three hundred French and English rabbis.

1267: Nachmanides arrives in Israel.

1313: Estory Haparchi arrives: The first geographer of Israel.

1538: Renewal of rabbinic ordination in Safed.

1561: Joseph Nasi leases Tiberius from Turkish sultan.

1700: Yehuda HeChasid and his followers arrive in Jerusalem.

1777: Large Hassidic group settles in Galilee.

1797: Rabbi Nachman of Bratzlav’s trip to Israel.

1808: Disciples of Elijah, Gaon of Vilna, settle in Jerusalem.



This very partial list of Jewish immigrants, who arrived well before the 20th century, is an inconvenient truth to the Arab and pro-Arab propagandists who would have you believe their myth that the Jews only arrived much, much later.



The national coins, the pottery, the cities and villages, the ancient Hebrew texts…all support the empirical fact that Jews always had a continuous presence in the land for over 3,500 years and the fact that Jewish villages and towns were to be found in all parts of the ancient homeland and throughout all the preceding years, up until the present time, certainly negates any claims that other people in the region may have; especially the fraudulent Arabs who today call themselves 'Palestinians'.

(full article online)









						Facts most Arabs and a hostile world would rather not admit
					

Jews were the indigenous inhabitants of the Land for millennia long before the Islam was created. There were always Jews in the Land. Op-ed.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

*It was Mossad agent Shlomo Hillel who persuaded Dr Zvi Yehuda, 86, to gather the research material needed to debunk an enduring myth, that the Zionists planted bombs to cause the Jews of Iraq to flee to Israel. The result is a new book, Torments of Salvation (Hebrew).  Y-net News reports: *

For about a century, both Iraqi Jews and the world at large were cascaded with misinformation about how the Zionists who were busy building the State of Israel, and required them to make _Aliya._

Evidence for this was bombing attacks on Iraqi synagogues and homes, in which several Jews were killed. Shortly after the attacks, a rumor began floating around that it was actually the Jews themselves who were responsible, supposedly terrorizing their own into leaving Iraq.

As a result, the Iraqi government began imprisoning and torturing Jews, exacting signed confessions and then executing the alleged culprits. Later on, Iraqi authorities would boast about their heroic exploit to uncover “the Zionist plot.”

In addition, they compelled some 105,000 Jews living in Iraq to sign a document saying they’re leaving Iraq of their own free will. The subtext was clear: It was the Zionists who made all the Jews make _Aliyah,_ using underhanded means, and the Iraqi government was innocent.

One of the things that helped this lie get ingrained was the fact that many Jews failed to manage to construct a life for themselves in Israel, since the Zionists “imposed” the _Aliyah_ on the Iraqi Jews, who they claimed were doing just fine living in Iraq.

“Both the radio and press in Iraq flooded the consciousness with this narrative,” Yehuda says. “After being translated worldwide, the propaganda became the accepted narrative of both the UN and the American State Department.”

Dr. Yehuda’s book is his personal indictment against the Iraqi authorities over their treatment of the Jewish people. His research shows the persecution of Jews began in the 1930s with the ascendance of Nuri al-Said to prime minister. He disliked Jews intensely and even said to Jerusalem’s Arab mayor at the time: “Jews are the source of evil. They’re spies and we need to get rid of them post haste.”

Words quickly became actions. Jewish property was vandalized and bombed, many were arrested, and anywhere between 200 to 1,000 Jews were murdered (_This  presumably refers to the Farhud of 1941 – ed)_ . It was a clear indication that the Nazi regime’s narrative about the Jewish people was taking hold of the minds across the continents.

The connection between Iraq and the Nazi regime also saw Fritz Grobba, a German diplomat active in Baghdad at the time, help Iraq spread anti-Jewish propaganda and secure weapons to that effect. “The Iraqis admired both him and Hitler,” says Yehuda. “The Nazis encouraged that connection and even played gracious hosts to Iraqi officials.”


It wasn’t just the Nazis who made Iraq hate the Jews. Being Hashemites, they dreamed of a massive territorial expansion to accommodate the oncoming Caliphate, which was supposed to include modern-day Israel. They asked the Jews in Iraq to sign a document saying they support the initiative, and holdouts were marked as enemies of the state. Even more bizarrely, Iraq was afraid Israel would become so strong that they would annex Iraq into its “Zionist empire.”

With religious, material and financial persecution raging all over Iraq, the 1950s saw a substantial influx of Jewish immigrants making their way to Israel to avoid the hostility and build a new life.

Yehuda says documents he has collected show how the truth was subverted at the time. “One of the Jews who was hanged in the 1950s had admitted that the Zionists were the ones who made him raid Jewish property, but documents show that the only reason he admitted to it was because he was promised smooth passage overseas. _(This presumably refers to the two bombings of June 1951, which damaged  the Lawi automobile company and the Stanley Shashoua car showroom, but did not cause casualties – ed)._

“There’s also evidence that the Arab inmates made fun of his naiveté, agreeing to a deal that wasn’t worth the paper it was printed on. After they got the signature they needed from him, he was executed.”

Other evidence collected shows that the freshly-minted State of Israel made little-to-no-effort to help Jews residing in Babylonian-Iraq at the time. _(It is not clear to what the reporter is referring to – ed)._ It wasn’t until later, when Prime Minister Ben-Gurion assigned a special committee to investigate the issue, that the matter came to light. It was established that it was Iraqi officials who threw explosives at Iraqi synagogues, not Zionists supposedly trying to force Iraqi Jews to make _Aliyah._

But, things then took a weird turn. An Iraqi Jew who served prison time in Iraq (Yehuda Tager implicated Yosef Ben-Halahmi)  told Ben-Gurion that he heard that it was the Jews who vandalized their own property. As unbelievable as it sounds, Israel’s first premier believed him over his own committee. He then decided to stay out of the events unfolding in Iraq.

In 2014, the Knesset passed a law that November 30 would commemorate the expulsion of Iraqi Jews, and their torture and imprisonment by Iraqi authorities. _(November 30 commemorates the departure and exodus of Jews from all Arab countries and Iran – not just Iraq – ed)_

Can your research have future implications?

“Absolutely. Plenty of Jewish historical sites were ruined and rebuilt _(sic)_. They keep talking about the Palestinian Right of Return. What about the Right of Return for Jews forced out of Iraq?”_(Rather than call for  a right of return for Jews to Iraq, Dr Yehuda ought to have talked of a permanent exchange of refugee populations, with no refugees allowed to return – ed).










						New book debunks myth that 'Zionist plot' made Jews leave Iraq • Point of No Return
					

It was Mossad agent Shlomo Hillel who persuaded Dr Zvi Yehuda, 86, to gather the research material needed to debunk an enduring myth, that the Zionists planted bombs to cause the Jews of Iraq to flee to Israel. The result is a new book, Torments of Salvation (Hebrew).  Y-net News reports:  For...




					www.jewishrefugees.org.uk
				



_


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## Sixties Fan

The Arab Center in Washington, DC published a paperby Mounir Marjieh that described the "status quo" on the Temple Mount, and of course accused Israel of violating it.

Marjieh's honesty is suspect from the start:


> Since the 19th century, the Al-Aqsa compound has been governed by a Status Quo arrangement, a _modus vivendi_ that prevents discord among conflicting parties. Accordingly, Al-Aqsa’s administration belongs to a Muslim institution, the Jerusalem Islamic Waqf, which is under the custodianship of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan. This custodianship has repeatedly been reaffirmed and recognized by the international community, including the United Nations, UNESCO, the Arab League, the European Union, Russia, and the United States, and was officially recognized in the 1994 peace treaty between Israel and Jordan.


Actually, Israel 's treaty with Jordan doesn't say anything about "custodianship," only that Israel will "respect" Jordan's "special role" in Muslim (not Christian) holy sites in Jerusalem. The language makes clear that Israel is the one that makes decisions, not Jordan. Furthermore, the language implies that Jews can pray in the Temple Mount by referring to " freedom of access to places of religious and historical significance" and "freedom of religious worship, and tolerance and peace."

Jordan's signature on the treaty makes it binding international law.

Now let's look at his description of what the status quo supposedly is, which seems a bit inconsistent and contradictory.




> After many disputes among European states in the 19th century for control over various holy sites in Jerusalem, the Ottoman Empire issued a series of decrees to regulate the administration of Christian holy sites by determining the powers and rights of various denominations in these places. The most important of these decrees was an 1852 firman by the Ottoman Sultan Abdulmejid I, which preserved the possession and division of Christian holy sites in Jerusalem and Bethlehem, and forbade any alterations to the status of these sites. This arrangement became known as the Status Quo.
> 
> In 1878, the Status Quo was internationally recognized in the Treaty of Berlin, which was signed between European powers and the Ottoman Empire following the conclusion of the Russo-Turkish War of 1877–1878. Article 62 of the treaty stated that: “It is well understood that no alteration can be made to the status quo in the holy places.” Article 62 of the Berlin Treaty extended the Status Quo to include all holy places and not only Christian sites. The Status Quo arrangement is a unique and delicate legal system that contains a specific set of rights and obligations that were created over centuries of practice and are now considered binding international law. It therefore supersedes any and all aspects of domestic law.


The Imperial Firman of 1852 only concerns itself with Christian holy places, not the Temple Mount.

The Treaty of Berlin does not refer to the firman in any way.  It does mention a status quo, without giving details of what it is. However, it can easily be read to say that Jews have the absolute right to worship in their holy places, including the Temple Mount.  Article 62 says:




> The Sublime Porte having expressed the intention to *maintain the principle of religious liberty, and give it the widest scope*, the Contracting Parties take note of this spontaneous declaration.
> 
> In no part of the Ottoman Empire shall difference of religion be alleged against any person as a ground for exclusion or incapacity as regards the discharge of civil and political rights, admission to the public employments, functions and honours, or the exercise of the various professions and industries.
> 
> All persons shall be admitted, without distinction of religion, to give evidence before the tribunals.
> 
> *The freedom and outward exercise of all forms of worship are assured to all*, and no hindrance shall be offered either to the hierarchical organization of the various communions or to their relations with their spiritual chiefs. ...
> 
> The rights possessed by France are expressly reserved, and it is well understood that no alterations can be made in the_ status quo_ in the Holy Places.



So we have a contradiction: the Treaty of Berlin says it supports freedom of worship, but also the status quo must not be changed.

Whatever that is. (The placement of that phrase in a paragraph about France implies that the "status quo" comment is only referring to Christian holy places.)

The Ottomans banned all non-Muslims from the Temple Mount until the early part of the 19th century. Marjieh claims that the status quo was "created over centuries of practice and are now considered binding international law." But if it was created over centuries, and for most of that time non-Muslims could not ascend, doesn't that mean that the status quo allows non-Muslims to be banned forever?

Moreover, Marjieh adds another dimension to his definition of the status quo:




> Until August 2000, and despite occasional breaches and escalations, the Status Quo functioned relatively smoothly, with the Jerusalem Islamic Waqf collecting small fees from non-Muslims and tourists, who were allowed to enter the holy site *provided they followed the rules of the Waqf*....
> 
> [Now,] Temple Mount groups and Israeli extremists enter from al-Magharbeh Gate as well, and *the Waqf is prohibited from preventing them from entering the site*. The Waqf can no longer prevent Israelis in military fatigues from entering, *although this act is banned per the mosque’s regulations*.



So now the Status Quo is defined not as "the conditions for centuries before the Treaty of Berlin" but as "whatever the Waqf decides it is." The Waqf used to ban Jews and Christians, then they allowed them for a fee, then they came up with a rule to exclude religious Jews (as Marjeih complains that cannot do under horrible Israeli law.)  

According to this new theory, the Status Quo is subject to the whims of the most extremist Muslims in Jerusalem.

If it can change for any reason, it is not a status quo by definition.

However, as mentioned, both the Treaty of Berlin, and the Israel/Jordan peace treaty, as well as numerous instruments of international law, guarantee freedom of worship for all. None of them say that you can define a space that has been historically the holiest spot on Judaism as an exclusively Muslim place of worship. 

According to the Arab Center, the status quo means that the Muslims can make up any rules they want - and that this is international law. It doesn't take much to show that this argument is not only false but nonsensical and contrary to actual, signed international treaties and conventions - including the one they use as Exhibit A.










						What really is the Temple Mount "status quo?" According to Arabs, whatever they claim it is
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

Part 1

Palestinian Arabs falsely complaining that Israeli Jews are "culturally appropriating" their cuisine have become so common that they are almost a cliche. 

But at least some of these accusations cross the line from absurd into antisemitism.

Here's an article this past weekend from L'Orient Today by Emmanuel Haddad:


> After hummus, falafel and so many other flagship dishes of Palestinian and Levantine cuisine, knefeh nabulsi is the latest victim of appropriation by Israel.
> 
> This delicious dessert, which originated in Nablus and is named after the main ingredient — nabulsi cheese — has been incorporated into a more-than-dubious recipe developed by Pizza Hut Israel.
> 
> For Palestinian chef Fadi Kattan, the affront is threefold: "First against the knefeh, then against pizza... And then, against the taste!"
> 
> The flavor is as off-putting as it is bitter for Salma Serry, historian of Near Eastern cuisine. The Israeli pizza-knefeh fits perfectly into the definition of appropriation she offers on Sufra Kitchen, the online platform she created to decolonize regional cuisines:
> 
> "Appropriation [is the] inappropriate adoption of a group's food without giving it credit, especially for commercial gain. Example: Israeli restaurants profiting from falafel, knefeh or hummus without mentioning their original culture."



The word "inappropriate" in that definition does some heavy lifting here. The USA has lots of restaurants that serve pizza or tacos; is it cultural appropriation to mention them without the prefixes "Italian" or "Mexican?" Apparently, only in Israel, and only for Jews, is cooking food from surrounding countries considered a crime without mentioning their origin - and in the case of foods from Arab countries, the origin in often murky and hardly ever "Palestinian. "

The Israeli Pizza Hut chain never once claimed that "knafeh pizza" is an Israeli food. On the contrary, when they introduced the dish last month, their press release said, “Pizza Hut recognized the unrealized potential of *this irresistible Middle Eastern food*, and decided to make its own version.” 

And Pizza Hut is not calling it "knafeh" but "knafeh pizza." It is a (perhaps bizarre) combination of the two, but no one claims it is authentic knafeh - or authentic pizza, for that matter. 

The article goes on:



> Salma Serry says she often hears denials of this culinary appropriation, defended as the natural spread of cuisine among different communities.
> 
> "Of course, food is meant to be shared. But when there is active violence that takes away a group's cultural identity and denies its heritage, its land and the food it produces while manipulating its history, then it becomes problematic,” she said. “In the specific case of Palestine, it's not about sharing; it's about taking and not giving back."



This is simply not true. Israeli chefs and cookbook writers happily describe where Israeli cuisine comes from. No one is "stealing" anything. Read Janna Gur's "A Short Introduction to Israeli Food" preface to her cookbook Shuk where she concisely describes the Israeli food scene's influences, from dozens of ethnic cultures in the Israeli melting pot but also from the neighboring Palestinians. Yes, sometimes non-experts will lazily say that some Arab dishes are Israeli, but they mean that they are popular in Israel: no one says that they originate there, unless they really do, as in the case offalafel in pita.  Similarly, there was much angst when Haaretz once said that shawarma is "Israeli street food" - *yet it is*, just as much ss pizza is American street food.

Here's a 1949 advertisement for a Tel Aviv restaurant selling "oriental food."





No Israeli ever claimed hummus was natively Israeli.

The real irony is that Palestinians are the ones who have culturally appropriated Middle East foods. They really have claimed to have invented most popular Levantine foodslike hummus and falafel, and here they claim to have created knafeh. They may have invented knafeh nabulsi, which uses cheese made in Nablus, but knafeh itself has much murkier origins.

Why does no one accuse Palestinians of cultural appropriation for claiming foods that were invented elsewhere? 

Because they are not Jews. 












						When do charges of "cultural appropriation" cross the line into antisemitism?
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

Part 2

There are two reasons that articles like this descend from simple lies into antisemitism. 

One is that they are saying that while *every *nation's cuisine is an amalgam from many places, only Israeli Jews are accused of "theft" - even though Israeli foodies freely admit and eagerly explain where all their dishes originate.

The other is that these articles deny the or even existence of Mizrahi Jews on the Israeli food scene, even though they are the primary source.

The L'Orient article includes this falsehood:


> For chef Kattan, the case of hummus is emblematic of the broader problem:
> 
> "It was the very first dish appropriated by the Israelis as early as 1948. Originally, the Zionist project was marked by European-style colonialism that denied the Arabness of Palestine and its land. But when they went to eat at the homes of Palestinians who survived the Nakba — during which 580 Palestinian villages were razed to the ground — they said to themselves, ‘This chickpea puree is not bad!’”



Jews in the Middle East have been eating hummus for centuries. This is a Palestinian chef erasing hundreds of years of Jewish history, and claiming that Jews have no right to be in the region. 

Here is a Palestine Post article about the popularity of falafel among Palestinian Jews in 1940 - and it interestingly describes the uniquely Israeli version of falafel in pita even then. The writer interviews a Jew who was born in Yemen, went to Egypt and brought his falafel skills to Jerusalem's Ben Yehuda Street.







These articles invariably downplay the role of Mizrahi Jews in bringing with them the bulk of what is now called Israeli cuisine.

Yes, that is antisemitism. 












						When do charges of "cultural appropriation" cross the line into antisemitism?
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## rylah

US Spoon-Feeds the Palestinian Authority a Looted Artifact
					

It's not clear why the artifact should have been given to the Palestinian Authority which has no cultural or historical connection to the object or the region.




					www.jewishpress.com


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## rylah

United States, Hamas and Others Condemn Minister Ben-Gvir’s Visit to Temple Mount
					

"I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all the families on earth will be blessed through you." Bereisheet 12:3.




					www.jewishpress.com
				












						Yes, Israeli officials have the right to visit the Temple Mount and pray there, too
					

U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) is right to blast Biden administration officials for siding with Palestinians against Israeli visits to the Temple Mount. He also is right to blast the administration for repeatedly siding against Israel, which essentially means siding with Islamic terrorists.




					www.washingtonexaminer.com
				












						Israel condemns UN Security Council session on Ben-Gvir’s ascent to Temple Mount - I24NEWS
					

'Why are we holding an emergency session for something as simple as a Jew walking to the holiest site in Judaism?' - Click the link for more details.




					www.i24news.tv


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## Sixties Fan

[ Jordanian understanding of a Peace Treaty ]


The website of the Jordanian Royal Committee for Jerusalem Affairs includes a brief English-language history of the city originally published in 2005.

It glosses over any historic Jewish connection to the city by framing Jews as one of many invaders:




> 3000 B.C. :
> The Arab Canaanites established the city in the third millennium B.C., as archeologists state.
> 
> 1879 B.C. :
> in the Egyptian Tablets, called the Texts of the Curse, the name Ur Salim (the city of peace) was mentioned as the name for the city . The name reoccurred in the year 1300 B.C. in the Tal Al- Amarnah Tablets. At that time, the city was inhabited by the Arab Yabusites.
> 
> 1300 – 63 B.C. :
> The city suffered invasion, occupation and destruction. It witnessed important events during this period . It was occupied by the Egyptians, the Jews, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Persians and the Greeks.
> 
> 63 B.C – 636 A.D. :
> This was the era of the Roman rule, which lasted around 700 years. The most important events during this period were :
> 
> – The appearance of Jesus Christ (the Messiah) around the first year B.C.
> – 70 The city was destroyed by the Roman Emperor Titus.



The Canaanites were not Arabs.

There is no mention of Jewish kingdoms, Kings David or Solomon, the Temples, or even the Bible. Even the Quran says far more about Jews in the land than this commission does.

Well, there is an indirect mention of the Temples when it discusses the different names of the city:


> Bayt Al-Maqdis (Al-Quds; The Holy) : The name given to the city by Muslim Arabs.



That name, of course, is a corruption of the Hebrew "Beit HaMikdash" - the Holy Temple.

*Practically every mention of Jews in this history is a lie.* A couple of examples:


> 1882: The start of the waves of mass Jewish immigration from Russia to Jerusalem and Palestine.


Only from Russia? Plenty of Jews came from many countries, including Arab countries like Yemen, in the 19th century.


> June 1967: Confiscation of 116 dunums within the old city and the demolition of the buildings therein for the purpose of building new ones to house the Jews.


That is the restoration of the Jewish Quarter that was destroyed by these Jordanians in 1948.



> 21 August 1969:* The Jew*, Michael Denis Rohan, set fire to the blessed Aqsa Mosque.


Rohan was a Christian.


> Jerusalem : The Inhabitants
> 
> – In 1918, the number of Palestinians in Old and New Jerusalem was circa (ca.) 30,000 .
> – In 1918, the number of Jews in Old and New Jerusalem was ca. 10,000.



I cannot find any record of a 1918 census of Jerusalem, but this is all clearly a lie. In 1922, there were 34,000 Jews in Jerusalem, outnumbering Christians (15,000) and Muslims (13,000) combined.

This official Jordanian document also says:


> – In 2000, the number of Jews in the western part of Occupied Jerusalem was ca. 275,000 *colonial Jews.*


Here and elsewhere, it refers to *all *Jews in Israel as colonialist - not just the "settlers." 
Finally, it falsely claims that the number of Christians in Jerusalem has gone down from over 18,000 in 1967 to 5,000 in 1998. In reality, the number plummeted under Jordanian rule from 29,000 to 12,000 in 1967, and it has modestly increased to about 16,000 today.

 This is Jordanian, state-sanctioned antisemitism.










						Official, antisemitic Jordanian history of Jerusalem omits Temples, Kings David and Solomon
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## rylah




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## rylah

Israel Rebukes U.N., Palestinian Authority for Emergency Session on Temple Mount​


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