# What if 20 Million Illegal Aliens Vacated America?



## LilOlLady (Nov 18, 2009)

What if 20 Million Illegal Aliens Vacated America? 

Tina Griego, journalist for the Denver Rocky Mountain News wrote a column titled, "Mexican Visitor's Lament" -- 10/25/07. 

She interviewed Mexican journalist Evangelina Hernandez while visiting Denver last week. Hernandez said, "They (illegal aliens) pay rent, buy groceries, buy clothes...What Happens to your country's economy if 20 million people go away?" That's a good question - it deserves an answer. 

Over 80 percent of Americans demand secured borders and illegal migration 
stopped. But what would happen if all 20 million or more vacated America? 
The answers may surprise you! 

In California, if 3.5 million illegal aliens moved back to Mexico, it would leave an extra $10.2 billion to spend on overloaded school systems, bankrupt hospitals and overrun prisons. It would leave highways cleaner, safer and less congested. Everyone could understand one another as English became the dominant language again. 

In Colorado, 500,000 illegal migrants, plus their 300,000 kids and grand-kids - would move back 'home', mostly to Mexico. That would save Coloradans an estimated $2 billion (other experts say $7 billion) annually, in taxes that pay for schooling, medical, social-services and incarceration costs. It means 12,000 gang members would vanish out of Denver alone. Colorado would save more than $20 million in prison costs, and the terror that those 7,300 alien criminals set upon local citizens. Denver Officer Don Young and hundreds of Colorado victims would not have suffered death, accidents, rapes and other crimes by illegals. Denver Public Schools would not suffer a 67 percent drop-out/flunk-out rate because of thousands of illegal alien students speaking 41 different languages. At least 200,000 vehicles would vanish from our gridlocked cities in Colorado. 
Denver's four percent unemployment rate would vanish as our working poor would gain jobs at a living wage. 

In Florida, 1.5 million illegals would return the Sunshine State back to America, the rule of law, and English. 

In Chicago, Illinois, 2.1 million illegals would free up hospitals, schools, prisons and highways for a safer, cleaner and more crime-free experience. 

If 20 million illegal aliens returned 'home', the U.S. Economy would 
return to the rule of law. Employers would hire legal American citizens at a 
living wage. Everyone would pay their fair share of taxes because they 
wouldn't be working off the books. That would result in an additional $401 
Billion in IRS income taxes collected annually, and an equal amount for 
local, state and city coffers. 
No more push '1' for Spanish or '2' for English. No more confusion 
in American schools that now must contend with over 100 languages that degrade the educational system for American kids. Our overcrowded schools would lose more than two million illegal alien kids at a cost of billions in ESL and free breakfasts and lunches. 

We would lose 500,000 illegal criminal alien inmates at a cost of more than $1.6 billion annually. That includes 15,000 MS-13 gang members who distribute $130 billion in drugs annually would vacate our country. 

In cities like L.A., 20,000 members of the '18th Street Gang' would vanish from our nation. No more Mexican forgery gangs for ID theft from Americans! No more foreign rapists and child molesters! 

Losing more than 20 million people would clear up our crowded highways and gridlock. Cleaner air and less drinking and driving American deaths by illegal aliens. 

America's economy is drained. Taxpayers are harmed. Employers get 
rich. Over $80 billion annually wouldn't return to the aliens' home 
countries by cash transfers. Illegal migrants earned half that money untaxed, which further drains America's economy - which currently suffers an $8.7 trillion debt. 

At least 400,000 anchor babies would not be born in our country, costing us $109 billion per year per cycle. At least 86 hospitals in California, Georgia and Florida would still be operating instead of being bankrupt out of existence because illegals pay nothing via the EMTOLA Act. 

Americans wouldn't suffer thousands of TB and hepatitis cases rampant in our country-brought in by illegals unscreened at our borders. 

Our cities would see 20 million less people driving, polluting and gridlocking our cities. It would also put the 'progressives' on the horns of a dilemma; illegal aliens and their families cause 11 percent of our greenhouse gases. 

Over one million of Mexico's poorest citizens now live inside and 
along our border from Brownsville, Texas to San Diego, California in what 
the New York Times called, "colonias" or new neighborhoods. Trouble is, 
those living areas resemble Bombay and Calcutta where grinding poverty, 
filth, diseases, drugs, crimes, no sanitation and worse. They live without sewage, clean water, streets, electricity, roads or any kind of sanitation. 
The New York Times reported them to be America's new "Third World" inside 
our own country. Within 20 years, at their current growth rate, they expect 
20 million residents of those colonias. (I've seen them personally in Texas 
and Arizona; it's sickening beyond anything you can imagine.) By enforcing 
our laws, we could repatriate them back to Mexico. 

We should invite 20 million aliens to go home, fix their own countries and/or make a better life in Mexico. We already invite a million people into our country legally more than all other countries combined annually. We cannot and must not allow anarchy at our borders, more anarchy within our borders and growing lawlessness at every level in our nation. It's time to stand up for our country, our culture, our civilization and our way of life. 

Interesting Statistics. 


Here are 14 reasons illegal aliens should vacate America, and I hope they are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them:? 

1. $11 billion to $22 billion dollars are spent each year on welfare 
to illegal aliens. 

2. $2.2 billion dollars are spent each year on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal 
aliens. 1. Center for Immigration Studies 

3. $2.5 billion dollars are spent each year on Medicaid for illegal 
aliens. Center for Immigration Studies 

4. $12 billion dollars are spent each year on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of 
English! http ://transcripts.cnn.com/T RANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html 

5. $17 billion dollars are spent each year for education for the 
American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. 
CNN.com - Transcripts 

6. $3 Million Dollars PER DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal 
aliens.?? CNN.com - Transcripts 

7. 30% percent of all federal prison inmates are illegal aliens. 
CNN.com - Transcripts 

8. $90 billion dollars are spent each year on illegal aliens for welfare & social services by the American taxpayers. 
CNN.com - Transcripts 

9. $200 billion dollars per year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens. CNN.com - Transcripts 

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's 
two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US. 
CNN.com - Transcripts 

11. During the year 2005, there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens 
that crossed our southern border with as many as 19, 500 illegal aliens from 
terrorist countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine, 
and marijuana crossed into the U.S. from the southern border. 


12. The National Policy Institute, estimates that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion, or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period. ? 
Welcome to the NPI E-Bookstore | National Policy Institute ? 

13. In 2006, illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. Wooldridge - How Much Further Into This Nightmare? 

14. The dark side of illegal immigration: Nearly one million sex crimes are committed by illegal immigrants in the United States!" 
http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml 

The total cost is a whopping $338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR!!!


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## uscitizen (Nov 18, 2009)

Dang who would build houses in the southwest?
Who would pick the crops?
who would work in the slaughterhouses?
Who would mow the grass?

Reminds me of those who say all you need is a good education to get an above average job.
Now if everyone got a good education where would they be?
Everyone would get an above average job?
Who would sling the burgers stock the grocery shelves and such?

Virtually everyone can and should have a place of value in our society.


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## Toro (Nov 18, 2009)

We'd be paying $10 for a head of lettuce.


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## alan1 (Nov 18, 2009)

uscitizen said:


> Dang who would build houses in the southwest?
> Who would pick the crops?
> who would work in the slaughterhouses?
> Who would mow the grass?
> ...



Who did those jobs before the illegal aliens?
Oh that's right, legal citizens and legal aliens with a work VISA.


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## alan1 (Nov 18, 2009)

Toro said:


> We'd be paying $10 for a head of lettuce.



Prove it.


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## Toronado3800 (Nov 19, 2009)

If no one hired illegals there would be no economic magnet bringing them here.  Instead of trying to round of the poor and hardworking try to round up citizens who break the law for money.


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## Luissa (Nov 19, 2009)

there is a movie out some B movie something like The Day the Mexicans disappeared or something, you should watch it. It will maybe give you some prespective on the issue.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 19, 2009)

Here's a good one.

Seems after all of these years of sending money out of the country thousands of illegals are asking their relatives in Mexico to send them money because they're broke here in the United States.

I guess that economy is recovering.....right Obama?


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## Toronado3800 (Nov 19, 2009)

> Seems after all of these years of sending money out of the country thousands of illegals are asking their relatives in Mexico to send them money because they're broke here in the United States.



Are you saying our percapita income is less that that of Mexico's after GWB left office?


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## Douger (Nov 19, 2009)

You answered my question as to WHY that can never happen

*"Employers get rich."*

Ya see. It's a historical fact that Amurkastanians always vote and act against their own best interests, either due to extreme greed or brainwashing /.flag sex.


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## JW Frogen (Nov 19, 2009)

Toro said:


> We'd be paying $10 for a head of lettuce.



Who the fuck eats lettuce?


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## JW Frogen (Nov 19, 2009)

By the way, does anyone know if there is a way to ferment lettuce?


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## LilOlLady (Nov 19, 2009)

Luissa said:


> there is a movie out some B movie something like The Day the Mexicans disappeared or something, you should watch it. It will maybe give you some prespective on the issue.




They all disappeared overnight and that was a farce because there is no way 20 million illegal aliens could disappear over night. Now if they left in the same way they came, they would be missed one by one and replaced one by one.
What if all the doctors disappeared over night. All the grocery stores disappeared. Make an example of something that would make a real difference.
When 20 million illegal aliens were not here, american were doing their jobs. Any one watch the documentary called DIRTY JOBS?
20 MILLION ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE NOT PICKING LETUCE. If lettuce becomes $5 a head I will stop eating lettuce and the farmer would be out of business or he would find a way to get his lettuce to market.


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## LilOlLady (Nov 19, 2009)

2 million Mexicans left this country last year and it had no effect on the price of lettuce and no one missed them.
What happened to "if the leave our economy would collapse" They were here and the eonomy collapsed anyway.
5 million illegal aliens defaulted on their mortgages that contributed to the economy failing among other things they did.


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## Angelhair (Nov 19, 2009)

'Dang who would build houses in the southwest?
Who would pick the crops?
who would work in the slaughterhouses?
Who would mow the grass?'

_American citizens would build houses ALL over the USA!
LEGAL immigrants would pick the crops!
10.2% unemployed U.S citizens and you dare ask who would work in the slaugherhouses???!!!
How about the kids who cut lawns in the past to help their parents with some school expenses?_


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## Angelhair (Nov 19, 2009)

'We'd be paying $10 for a head of lettuce.'

_I'd be willing to pay 20 bucks for a head of lettuce to bring back AMERICA!!! ___________________


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## Angelhair (Nov 19, 2009)

'there is a movie out some B movie something like The Day the Mexicans disappeared or something, you should watch it. It will maybe give you some prespective on the issue.'

_Sure there is. A movie that was funded by the pro-illegal advocates.  I rest my case. Geez!!!! _
__________________


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## Screaming Eagle (Nov 19, 2009)

We already gave this a test run back in 2006. Remember the day without a Mexican?  It was freaking awesome.

Edit to add that I'm not talking about the movie.


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## LilOlLady (Nov 19, 2009)

mudwhistle said:


> Here's a good one.
> 
> Seems after all of these years of sending money out of the country thousands of illegals are asking their relatives in Mexico to send them money because they're broke here in the United States.
> You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
> ...



*Rev. Boetcker *need to read *what Jesus had to say about the poor*. No one is asking for  EVERYTHING you have, not  TAKING CARE of the poor but help them up and in return they can help someone else. Like *PAY  IT FORWARD*.


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## Angelhair (Nov 19, 2009)

_Was it not YOU lilOlady who was slobbering all over Obama???? Who kept saying that those who did not vote for him were - and here goes that 'scary' word - RACISTS????_


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 19, 2009)

Toro said:


> We'd be paying $10 for a head of lettuce.



no you would not....where did you get that BS ....La Raza....


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 19, 2009)

Douger said:


> You answered my question as to WHY that can never happen
> 
> *"Employers get rich."*
> 
> Ya see. It's a historical fact that Amurkastanians always vote and act against their own best interests, either due to extreme greed or brainwashing /.flag sex.



homo says what?.....


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## alan1 (Nov 19, 2009)

Harry Dresden said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > We'd be paying $10 for a head of lettuce.
> ...



Notice that he shows nor proof or facts?
He just flung some random statement out there hoping people would believe it.


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 19, 2009)

MountainMan said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...



well this has been talked about for years in S.Cal.....the guys who do the picking are MIGRANT workers.....they are like a traveling carnival so to speak.....they travel to different areas and work the crops AND return at times to Mexico and work the crops down there.....i believe they have a different status than other "migrants".....a friend of mine who is a first Generation Mexican,and a citizen....his dad and most of his family did this and Roberto would work with his family during the summer months....he did not care for it,but they did...he said its what they do.....


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## Epsilon Delta (Nov 19, 2009)

Is pressing "1" on the telephone really all that confusing?


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## RipIsSmokin (Nov 20, 2009)

It would be a good start. Now what do we do about the other 20 million illegals and countless millions of anchor babies whose first allegience is to another country?


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## Epsilon Delta (Nov 20, 2009)

RipIsSmokin said:


> It would be a good start. Now what do we do about the other 20 million illegals and countless millions of anchor babies whose first allegience is to another country?



That's easy, man. First, you pressure your representative to pass a law that bans intermarriage between ethnic brown Mexicans/ other undesirables and 'real' Americans. Then, you start putting restriction on the undesirables, like where their businesses can operate, where their workers can work, etc. You do all this by establishing national ID cards that have people's ethnicity up to their great-grandparents. Then you start herding them into specific areas within cities, until it is possible to amass the infrastructure to ship them into more remote areas (let's call them "camps"). Soon enough, you'll FINALLY SOLVE your brown people problem! W00t!


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## alan1 (Nov 20, 2009)

Epsilon Delta said:


> RipIsSmokin said:
> 
> 
> > It would be a good start. Now what do we do about the other 20 million illegals and countless millions of anchor babies whose first allegience is to another country?
> ...



Go be racist someplace else, asshole.


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## Epsilon Delta (Nov 20, 2009)

MountainMan said:


> Epsilon Delta said:
> 
> 
> > RipIsSmokin said:
> ...



Hey, look buddy, I love Amer- Wait... what's that in the distance...??

*ALERT!!!

YOUR SARCASM DETECTOR IS BROKEN!!

ALERT!!

PROCEED TO NEXT REPAIR STATION!!

ALERT!!

YOU WILL NOT BE WARNED AGAIN!!*


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## Toro (Nov 20, 2009)

MountainMan said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > We'd be paying $10 for a head of lettuce.
> ...



There have been several studies showing the impact of illegal immigration on the price of lettuce.



> Using a time-series of lettuce prices across the United States for 1973-2006, we regressed the price of lettuce against the rising levels of illegal immigration across different states.  Using a stochastic process and a cross-sectional analysis applied to Gaussian distributions, we estimate the effects of illegal immigration on the price of lettuce in states with a high level of illegal immigrant migrant workers vis-a-vis states with a low level of illegal immigrant migrant workers.  Our conclusion is that, adjusting for inflation, the price of lettuce in the United States would be $10.17 rather than the current average of $1.49 had all illegal immigration been stopped since 1973.



The National Bureau of Economic Research


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 20, 2009)

Toro said:


> MountainMan said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...



thats pro-illegal Bullshit Toro.....Migrant workers who pick the stuff have a different status than the typical Illegal.....they have a permit to work here and go wherever the crops are....they have been picking Lettuce and other Fruits and Vegetables since way back when.....and this BS about the price has been debunked countless times since the 80's.....the only thing affecting the price of lettuce is the weather and the quality of the crops.....


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## Angelhair (Nov 21, 2009)

'thats pro-illegal Bullshit Toro.....Migrant workers who pick the stuff have a different status than the typical Illegal.....they have a permit to work here and go wherever the crops are....they have been picking Lettuce and other Fruits and Vegetables since way back when.....and this BS about the price has been debunked countless times since the 80's.....the only thing affecting the price of lettuce is the weather and the quality of the crops.....'

_Hear ye, hear ye!!! _


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## alan1 (Nov 21, 2009)

Toro said:


> MountainMan said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...



That's a pretty micro-economic view, isn't it?
It completely avoids the truth that people wouldn't pay that much for lettuce, thus the price would not go that high.


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## JWBooth (Nov 21, 2009)

Toro said:


> We'd be paying $10 for a head of lettuce.



Not I said the fellow who keeps a garden year 'round.

Frankly, I'd rather keep the wets and deport the crackheads.


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## Toro (Nov 21, 2009)

Harry Dresden said:


> thats ... Bullshit Toro.....



Yes.  Yes it is.

Its from an old Jay Leno joke who said that "Now, lettuce will cost $70 a head."

The idea that lettuce would cost $10 is absurd. I thought people would have enough sense to understand the context of the absurdity of such a statement.   I didn't think anyone would take it seriously.  

But then again, I can't believe anyone would take Sarah Palin as President seriously either, but they do.


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## alan1 (Nov 21, 2009)

Toro said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > thats ... Bullshit Toro.....
> ...



Cool, you are backpedaling now.
What the fuck does SP have to do with conversation, other than to try and distract from your bullshit post?


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## Toro (Nov 21, 2009)

MountainMan said:


> Cool, you are backpedaling now.
> What the fuck does SP have to do with conversation, other than to try and distract from your bullshit post?



Here is a dollar.






Go buy yourself a sense of humor.


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 21, 2009)

Toro said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > thats ... Bullshit Toro.....
> ...



Toro....if you meant it as sarcasm or a joke....why did you not say so earlier?.....there are many pro-illegal people who propagate this kind of shit and many buy into it....


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## alan1 (Nov 21, 2009)

Toro said:


> MountainMan said:
> 
> 
> > Cool, you are backpedaling now.
> ...



Here is 3 times as much, go buy yourself some honesty.


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## Contessa_Sharra (Nov 21, 2009)

Toro said:


> We'd be paying $10 for a head of lettuce.


 

Guess you would plant a windowbox garden, huh?


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## Contessa_Sharra (Nov 21, 2009)

Luissa said:


> there is a movie out some B movie something like The Day the Mexicans disappeared or something, you should watch it. It will maybe give you some prespective on the issue.


 
Couple of years ago Cali had "A day without a mexican." 

I think we went elsewhere, ate at Fresh Choice or something, went on with our lives, and never stumbled.


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## Contessa_Sharra (Nov 21, 2009)

Harry Dresden said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > We'd be paying $10 for a head of lettuce.
> ...


 

recently, I bought tomatoes at the local farmers' market, where much of the produce is from small farms worked by legal and citizen southeast Asian people. I paid 35 cents a pound for them. What were those imports from Mexico costing at Safeway or Albertsons *(insert chain name here)?

And then, there is having a raised bed kitchen garden in the back yard!


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## Andrew2382 (Nov 21, 2009)

my grass would get out of control with how big it would get


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## Toro (Nov 21, 2009)

Harry Dresden said:


> Toro....if you meant it as sarcasm or a joke....why did you not say so earlier?.....there are many pro-illegal people who propagate this kind of shit and many buy into it....



I used hyperbole to make a point.  Then, I wanted to see how gullible people were.

If we booted out all illegals, the price of produce would go up.  Lettuce wouldn't go to $10 but it would go up.  Its simple economics.  Profits in farming are razor thin.  Everyone is a price taker.  If all the illegals left, farmers would have to pay more for labor and all of the cost would be passed on to the consumer, which means that everyone would have less to spend on everything else.  That destroys wealth and makes everyone poorer.

Maybe that's the price everyone would be willing to pay to stop illegal immigration, I don't know.  But you should understand the costs before making that decision.

I am not making a pro- or anti-argument. (I do have sympathy for people who would risk their lives to come here.  As the head of the CATO Institute once said, "Aren't those the type of people we want to come to America?)


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## Contessa_Sharra (Nov 21, 2009)

*Remittances to Mexico Drop as Some Migrants in the USA get Money from Home*


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 21, 2009)

Toro said:


> I am not making a pro- or anti-argument. (I do have sympathy for people who would risk their lives to come here.  As the head of the CATO Institute once said, "Aren't those the type of people we want to come to America?)



yes but we also want them to BECOME Americans.....not still be in their native countries in their heads and not want to be a part of the country.....i see that kinda stuff everyday here....people who can speak decent English talking to their small kids in Spanish....if the kids knew English it would not matter.....but they dont....so it matters.....


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## Toro (Nov 21, 2009)

Harry Dresden said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > I am not making a pro- or anti-argument. (I do have sympathy for people who would risk their lives to come here.  As the head of the CATO Institute once said, "Aren't those the type of people we want to come to America?)
> ...



Yeah, I do too.  If you are going to stay here, you should become American, or at least raise your kids to be American first.


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## Angelhair (Nov 22, 2009)

'(I do have sympathy for people who would risk their lives to come here. As the head of the CATO Institute once said, "Aren't those the type of people we want to come to America?)'

_Hell no! I want educated people and those who aren't running away to countries simply for the free ride and freebies that those countries allow them.  I want people who want to embrace this country when they do arrive and to respect it and pledge allegiance to it.  NOT the many types that are here now bad mouthing the USA and demanding what is not theirs to demand!!! I want the criminals among those that enter ILLEGALLY to be caught and deported post haste.
I want people to stay in their countries and fight for justice and opportunities for those who aren't able to fight for themselves._


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## Vera (Dec 1, 2009)

Thank you very much for making this post. When I was working on my degree in college, I had to write a paper in my sociology class. I chose illegal immigration and its effects on our health and school systems. The more information I found on the topic, the angrier I got. I have nothing against people who LEGALLY want to immigrate to our country, but I have a serious problem with those that want to reap our benefits without paying any of the costs for being a U.S. citizen. BTW, I got a 99 on that paper, with a capitalization mistake being the only error in the whole thing.


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## LilOlLady (Dec 2, 2009)

How about a *day without an American*, or even a* day without a white ma*n. Then you would see *BIG* problems.


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## Claudette (Dec 3, 2009)

Good post Ol Lady. Couldn't agree more.

If all the illegals left it would save this country BILLIOINS. I have not one problem with legal immigration but a big one with those that are here illegally.  

As for the jobs they do. I'm sure work visas would be in order like they were long before we had this illegal problem. The Canadian Govt puts a request in to the Mexican Govt for X amount of workers for X amount of time. The workers come in, do the work and go the hell home. Thats the way it should be here also. 

Of course it will never happen becaue both parties of our Govt are courting the Hispanic vote. Thats why the borders are still open. God. What does it matter what it costs the taxpayers in social services so long as they can get the Hispanic vote???


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## Vera (Dec 3, 2009)

Claudette said:


> Good post Ol Lady. Couldn't agree more.
> 
> If all the illegals left it would save this country BILLIOINS. I have not one problem with legal immigration but a big one with those that are here illegally.
> 
> ...


That was one of the things that was irritating me so much, when I was writing my sociology paper. The fact our schools and hospitals were not legally allowed to turn illegal immigrants away was astonishing. All they have to do to attend a school here in the U.S. is give them an address that falls into their schooling area. *shakes head* I was floored when I found out the aid illegals have been getting from our social services.


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## SW2SILVER (Dec 4, 2009)

"I am not making a pro- or anti-argument. (I do have sympathy for people who would risk their lives to come here. As the head of the CATO Institute once said, "Aren't those the type of people we want to come to America?)" 
 Those folks at the CATO Institute have been watching too many reruns of JACKASS. Or they think criminal reckless indifference is a virtue. If I risk my life and steal a car, even though I can buy one legally, it means I deserve it? The Cato Institute thinks so, I guess.


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## antagon (Dec 6, 2009)

immigration is a core policy of the US that history can show we've benefitted from substantially.  the inaction of politicians on the subject indicates that they feel it is the right course of action specifically to keep the cost of labor in the country low. (reference slavery, irish immigration, italians, chinese, polish, etc... and now mexican/latin american immigration).  _illegal_ immigration is the problem, and because of some of the political backlash that it raises, politicians prefer to play stupid and take no action than to stand behind tough decisions like amnesty or increased quotas for mexican and latin american migrants.  

just like the other immigrants id named above, there is significant disgust for any new immigrant group among working class americans, but today's politicians dont have the guts to tell their citizen-constituents that they think making citizens or residents out of mexicans is the best thing for the country... political suicide when youre dealing with the neo-coservative base.  they'll change your name to mcamnesty. 

the result is that illegals arent welcomed into the ideal role of american life like the hundreds of millions of immigrants before them: not welcomed to pay income tax, learn english, make their homes here, work, etc.  crime and other characteristics which could be ascribed to lack of ownership and belonging are rife.

what if 20 million aliens payed taxes?


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## Zona (Dec 6, 2009)

MountainMan said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> > Dang who would build houses in the southwest?
> ...



Then why wont good hard working americans take those jobs now then?


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## Zona (Dec 6, 2009)

Harry Dresden said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > I am not making a pro- or anti-argument. (I do have sympathy for people who would risk their lives to come here.  As the head of the CATO Institute once said, "Aren't those the type of people we want to come to America?)
> ...



One o the dumbest things I have seen in here in a while.  They should not have their native countries in their heads.  Wow. 

Thats true, we should only have English speaking people here, better yet, one shade...rightgy?  

This is what our country was built on...bring us your hungry, blah blah blah.


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## Zona (Dec 6, 2009)

Angelhair said:


> '(I do have sympathy for people who would risk their lives to come here. As the head of the CATO Institute once said, "Aren't those the type of people we want to come to America?)'
> 
> _Hell no! I want educated people and those who aren't running away to countries simply for the free ride and freebies that those countries allow them.  I want people who want to embrace this country when they do arrive and to respect it and pledge allegiance to it.  NOT the many types that are here now bad mouthing the USA and demanding what is not theirs to demand!!! I want the criminals among those that enter ILLEGALLY to be caught and deported post haste.
> I want people to stay in their countries and fight for justice and opportunities for those who aren't able to fight for themselves._



Give us your tired, hungry, poor...blah blah blah.


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## Vera (Dec 6, 2009)

Zona said:


> MountainMan said:
> 
> 
> > uscitizen said:
> ...


Because the owners of the businesses that handle those jobs can hire illegal immigrants for a hell of a lot less than they can U.S. citizens. Remember, employers are required by law to pay a minimum wage for work done. They can get away with paying less than that, if they hire illegal immigrants to do the jobs instead.


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## Claudette (Dec 7, 2009)

Thats just the problem Antagon. They don't pay taxes but are allowed to  use our social service, schools and you name it. The bottom line is that they are here illegally.

We should adopt the Canadian system for workers from Mexico. This would alleviate a lot of the problem. Problem is the Clowns in DC will do nothing and both parties are to blame.


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## Liability (Dec 7, 2009)

uscitizen said:


> Dang who would build houses in the southwest?
> Who would pick the crops?
> who would work in the slaughterhouses?
> Who would mow the grass?



Americans.  Imagine American jobs for Americans.  Or -- get this -- it might be done in part by ALIENS, but those would be LEGAL Aliens.  You know the kind.  Those who actually FOLLOW the law, don't jump the line, etc.


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## antagon (Dec 7, 2009)

Claudette said:


> Thats just the problem Antagon. They don't pay taxes but are allowed to  use our social service, schools and you name it. The bottom line is that they are here illegally.
> 
> We should adopt the Canadian system for workers from Mexico. This would alleviate a lot of the problem. Problem is the Clowns in DC will do nothing and both parties are to blame.



some people are scared of a bunch of mexicans, but me, i compete with them for my living and my gangs livings. (i run a home improvement biz with a 100% american born labor (not that ive got anything against mexican dudes, but crews based on one mexican dude end up being all mexican guys in the end.  i didnt see the point of starting down that road)  but my point is that the amout of racism and paranoia that working class americans pack for mexicans makes it such that if youre a DC clown trying to effect a rational solution, your constituents are apt to rename your mcamnesty or something.  political suicide.  these threads speak for america.  we'd rather stick to an irrational ideal on this issue than issue 15,000,000 visas for $2,000 each.

i dunno what canadians do, but 'do as the canadians' curls my blood for some reason.  i guess im paranoid about canadians or think theyre in _our_ shadow.


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## Claudette (Dec 8, 2009)

Well its not racism or paranoia as far as I'm concerned.

Its folks who are here illegally and sucking off our social services. Heck our hospitals   have to treat them and can't even ask if they are legal or not. Our schools have to educate their children. These folks don't pay for anything they receive. No. Just don't work for me.

If I were an illegal in Mexico I would land in jail. Funny how that works.


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## Angelhair (Dec 8, 2009)

_Got that right Claudette._


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## AmericasBrave58 (Jan 18, 2010)

LilOlLady said:


> What if 20 Million Illegal Aliens Vacated America?
> 
> Tina Griego, journalist for the Denver Rocky Mountain News wrote a column titled, "Mexican Visitor's Lament" -- 10/25/07.
> 
> ...






 YEEEEEEEEHHHHAAAWWWWW!! OH!!! Lord!!!!! I would be one very very!!! Happy!!! Camper!!!!! PARTY!!!!!!!Til the Cows came home!!!


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## AmericasBrave58 (Jan 18, 2010)

Claudette said:


> Well its not racism or paranoia as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> Its folks who are here illegally and sucking off our social services. Heck our hospitals   have to treat them and can't even ask if they are legal or not. Our schools have to educate their children. These folks don't pay for anything they receive. No. Just don't work for me.
> 
> If I were an illegal in Mexico I would land in jail. Funny how that works.



 Because of our leader today, and the past leaders, our borders hinges are broken and the Locks are stripped, and the doors won't stay closed, and our leader today and the ones in the past like to kiss booty!!!! Things will never change, not in a million years!!! not in your life-time or mine.Congress can say, that they will pass this and pass that, but,as Paw used to say!!! to us kids, " If Wishes were Horses, we would have a whole Stable full. DREAM!!!!!!ON!!!!!! FOLKS. DREAM ON!!!!


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## hvactec (Jan 18, 2010)

That would create jobs for real Americans that pay taxes and more


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## AmericasBrave58 (Jan 18, 2010)

hvactec said:


> That would create jobs for real Americans that pay taxes and more



 Damn!!! straight it would!!!! Well we could try and gather up as many of those low-life, users and trespassers,as we could, and send them to the Bayou's of Louisiana, and the areas of Florida.The Gator's down there are always hungry and the Cotton mouth snakes would gulp them down as well, and the the Logger Turtles would have a good feast as well(Snapping Turtles).These critters would feast day and night!!!!.What do Y'all think of that?


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## Douger (Jan 19, 2010)

uscitizen said:


> Dang who would build houses in the southwest?
> Who would pick the crops?
> who would work in the slaughterhouses?
> Who would mow the grass?
> ...



Over yonder the companies would go.
Where a ho is a type of agricultural tool.


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## keee keee (Jan 19, 2010)

uscitizen said:


> Dang who would build houses in the southwest?
> Who would pick the crops?
> who would work in the slaughterhouses?
> Who would mow the grass?
> ...



Americans would do the jobs like they did when ai was a child. I still remember the days when every construction worker was American and made a good buck. Restaurants had Americans &. high school kids working in the kitchens. All the jobs use to be some legal Americans job.


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## Angelhair (Jan 19, 2010)

_Blame the greedy corps who love cheap labor and 3rd world countries who love to appease them.  The bottom line is BIG profits.  They will throw their mother under the bus to see that. Blame the Chamber of Commerce who love to bring cheap labor to the USA no matter what they have to do to accomplish it. Blame the politicians who have one foot in their country of birth and one in the USA.   Blame the politicians who will also throw their mother under the bus for the VOTE.  Sorry folks, but the USA is doomed!_


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## Yukon (Jan 19, 2010)

Americans would starve without aliens working. You're too fat and lazy.


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## Screaming Eagle (Jan 19, 2010)

Yukon said:


> Americans would starve without aliens working. You're too fat and lazy.



It's this kind of ridiculously stupid statement that really irks me. 

First you imply that aliens are hardworking, and most of them are except for the Mexicans and they are the laziest bastards next to the French that I've ever heard of. Go to their country some time. Work with them for a while. You'll see. Except for the majority of our aliens who are Mexican, the aliens here are hardworking, in my experience. 

You imply that Americans are fat, that's probably pretty accurate. 

But then you state that the hardest working people in the whole world are lazy, well that's just completely asinine.


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## Yukon (Jan 19, 2010)

Screaming A##hole,

Based on your comments you are obviously a racist.


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## Angelhair (Jan 19, 2010)

_And Yukon is fat and lazy._


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 19, 2010)

If the illegals left:

More out of work Americans could find a job
I wouldn't have to "Press 1 for English" anymore
There would be fewer criminals

Seems like a no brainer


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jan 19, 2010)

uscitizen said:


> Dang who would build houses in the southwest?
> Who would pick the crops?
> who would work in the slaughterhouses?
> Who would mow the grass?
> ...




Build houses?  Some of the millions of unemployed americans 
Pick Crops?  Some of the millions of unemployed american citizens 
Work the Slaughter house?  Some of the millions of unemployed legal immigrant american citizens
Mow The Grass?  American youth and legal immigrant citizens


If everyone got a good education then educated people would work at mcdonalds
Not everyone would get an above average job hence what i said above ;.
People who didn't get that education and LEGAL immigrants.


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## froggy (Jan 19, 2010)

LilOlLady said:


> What if 20 Million Illegal Aliens Vacated America?
> 
> Tina Griego, journalist for the Denver Rocky Mountain News wrote a column titled, "Mexican Visitor's Lament" -- 10/25/07.
> 
> ...



20 million out-of-work americans would go to work and pay their rent, buy gro, buy clothes, pay taxes and not send money out of the country.


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## AmericasBrave58 (Jan 19, 2010)

froggy said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> > What if 20 Million Illegal Aliens Vacated America?
> ...



 That's a Big!!!10-4!!! buddy!!!!Right on!!!


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## Screaming Eagle (Jan 19, 2010)

Yukon said:


> Screaming A##hole,
> 
> Based on your comments you are obviously a racist.



I know, I can never say that Columbians or Peruvians are generally hardworking people without being called a racist, that's just how it is.


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## Inspiron1545 (Jan 19, 2010)

The opening of the 21st century has witnessed continuing controversies over how nation states should react to potential immigrant flows of highly skilled professionals and their integration into the receiving states economies.  Examples of paradoxical immigrant admission policies abound.  Faced with continued inflows of skilled immigrants, the United States reacted by limiting immigrant access to social benefits while recognizing that steps must be taken now to reform immigration and regularize their labor market status as a boost to economies worldwide.

China, India, the Philippines, and a host of smaller immigrant-sending countries have historically critically judged Canadian, Australian and United States immigration policies as harmful to their development.  The highly-skilled outflows from these countries and the small or non-existent number of returnees led to accusations of a brain drain until the late 1980s.  With the advent of temporary highly skilled worker visas in North America and Europe, these criticisms became more muted as the concept of brain circulation replaced the brain drain rhetoric.

Other immigrant-related phenomena helped mute the criticism leveled at receiving countries by sending countries.  While historically important for a few countries (The Philippines, Pakistan, and Mexico), immigrant remittances became more pronounced in 2001 when US 73 billion dollars was remitted primarily from the United States, Saudi Arabia and Germany.  In fact, immigrant remittances had exceeded official development assistance by 2002, and equaled 42% of total foreign direct investment to some less developed countries.  In addition, India, Hong-Kong, Taiwan, and China experienced immigrant-induced foreign direct investment, remittances and return migration to spur their development.  As a result of the brain circulation and of the size of remittances, source countries have developed programs and policies to attract their people back.

Dual citizenship may have been the most important instrument to encourage brain circulation and remittance investments.  In 2003, India instituted a partial dual citizenship policy allowing its dual nationals to return and work or invest in India whilst maintaining their acquired citizenship.  China has been more hesitant and has instituted a so-called green card issued only to encourage erstwhile Chinese citizens to return and work indefinitely as a foreign national in a particular Chinese city.  In order for these dual citizenship policies to work to the benefit of the immigrant, destination countries must also recognize dual citizenship.  Amongst the major ones, only Canada and Australia have a clearly defined dual citizenship policy.  In addition, immigration policies of destination countries affect the size of remittance flows.  Legal or illegal temporary unskilled immigration and admission of political refugees appear to be pre-conditions to generate substantial remittances by the unskilled.  Major immigrant-sending regions, especially China, Mexico and India, have reassessed their critical appraisal of first-world immigration policies given the rise in remittances, return migration, and foreign direct investment by returned émigrés.

However, it would be premature to conclude that immigrant-sending regions assess emigration as a means of improving their economy.   Global migration is one of the most powerful mechanisms to influence the development of a country from an economic perspective as it benefits the receiving country in terms of improving workforce capability and increasing the development of new products and intellectual property.  Conversely, the sending countries obtain the benefit of some economic growth through remittances with the true growth coming from returnees that come back to their home as dual citizens to embark on new business ventures that can increase the competitive ecosystems of both sending and receiving countries alike.


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## Mr.Fitnah (Jan 20, 2010)

Toro said:


> MountainMan said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...



Thats the same way they  do those climate  global warming studies isn't it?


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## antipartisan (Jan 24, 2010)

I love how the pro-illegals love to turn this into a racial issue. Noone on this thread has a problem with legal immigrants. 

It is purely a legal issue.  They are breaking the law, and thus should be thrown out. With that said, I do agree the businesses that hire them should be severely punished.


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## bodecea (Jan 25, 2010)

LilOlLady said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > there is a movie out some B movie something like The Day the Mexicans disappeared or something, you should watch it. It will maybe give you some prespective on the issue.
> ...



This.    20 million at once would be a disaster....20 million a bit at a time would be just fine....But the federal government needs to close the borders so that more do not come in and fine/arrest those who hire them.


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## Mr Natural (Jan 25, 2010)

I'd like to hear the plan on moving 20 million people back to where they came from.  

Buses maybe?

Assuming the average bus holds 100 people , that's 200,000 bus loads.

That's a lot of damn buses.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jan 25, 2010)

I made a longer post before so this one will be concise.

If 20 million illegals left the USA right now our unemployment rate would drop to zero.


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## Angelhair (Jan 25, 2010)

_Why do people yell racist when they find someone who has a different view and opinion????? If caring about your country makes someone a racist, then I wear the label proudly. I am against breaking the law - and yes, that goes for our sovereign law!  If you can't come into the USA LEGALLY, stay in your country! Does that make me racist? Well go for it - be my guest._


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jan 25, 2010)

Angelhair said:


> _Why do people yell racist when they find someone who has a different view and opinion????? If caring about your country makes someone a racist, then I wear the label proudly. I am against breaking the law - and yes, that goes for our sovereign law!  If you can't come into the USA LEGALLY, stay in your country! Does that make me racist? Well go for it - be my guest._



Being against illegal immigration is not racist at all.  if someone calls you racist for that they are being dishonest.


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## Mr Natural (Jan 25, 2010)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> I made a longer post before so this one will be concise.
> 
> If 20 million illegals left the USA right now our unemployment rate would drop to zero.



And if slave labor was reinstituted, our unemployment rate would also drop to zero.

So what's your point?


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jan 25, 2010)

Mr Clean said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > I made a longer post before so this one will be concise.
> ...



If slave labor was reinstituted unemployment would skyrocket....why hire an american when you can go kidnap people from other places to use as slaves?  Did I ever tell you I dont eat seafood, especially red herring?

Let me poke at you again     By your logic it sounds as if you want to make slavery legal again?  Remember its illegal thats why we dont have slavery, just like the way the ILLEGAL immigrants enter the country is also illegal.  I am not making my point properly but i think you will get it anyway.

How many us citizens are currently not working?  Is it less than 20million?  If it is then all the ILLEGAL (remember legal immigrants are wanted in the USA) immigrants leaving would effectively put a giant, if not total, dent in the unemployment figures.


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## Mr Natural (Jan 25, 2010)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> ...



For unskilled labor maybe but what about all the high tech and skilled labor jobs?

Would they magically reappear if the illegals went home?

I think not.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jan 25, 2010)

Mr Clean said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Clean said:
> ...



How many illegal immigrants do the high tech and skilled labor jobs?   

I dont think they would impact that employment segment much at all.


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## Screaming Eagle (Jan 25, 2010)

Mr Clean said:


> I'd like to hear the plan on moving 20 million people back to where they came from.
> 
> Buses maybe?
> 
> ...



Helloooooooo, McFly................ If you're going to try to think spend more time doing it. 

Let's say 50 people fit on a bus. That would be 400,000 busloads. Now let's say we have 10 states to bus from, equally, to keep the discussion simple. That's 40,000 busloads per state. Let's say on average it will take 2 days round trip, one to get there and one to get back. That's 180 trips per year/per bus. That average is probably far longer than reality. So each state would need 222 buses to get it done in 1 year, or more feasibly 100 to do it over 2-3 years. Each trip would cost $500 in gas or $10 per illegal and with a staff of say 400 to man the buses with a salary cost of $14.5 million @ $36k each. When you break it even farther down to the county level that would be about .5 to 3 buses per county depending on the state. 100 buses or fewer per state, piece of cake, remember this was sharing the load between only 10 states. 

It is actually very feasible when you look at the numbers. It would also cost much less to transport them than we currently spend on them. A total of less than $500 million, no way would it top $1 billion, which is much less than they cost us every year right now.


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## Mr Natural (Jan 25, 2010)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> ...




I personally don't know any unskilled laborers.  

But I do know several several former engineers, salespeople, small business owners, and attorneys (yes attorneys) who are no longer employed or have lost their businesses in this economic downturn.

And I doubt that any of them would consider taking a job created by the deportation of illegals.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jan 25, 2010)

Mr Clean said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Clean said:
> ...



I doubt they would too.   Im not arguing that point with you at all as we agree.

If 20 million illegals just vanished from america tommorrow there would be LOTS of new jobs that LOTS of unemployed americans could and would take right now....that was my initial and only point.


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## Mr Natural (Jan 25, 2010)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> ...



Yes, perhaps in the sector in which illegals are currently employed but that's still not going to drop the unemployment rate to zero.


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## Againsheila (Jan 25, 2010)

Screaming Eagle said:


> We already gave this a test run back in 2006. Remember the day without a Mexican?  It was freaking awesome.
> 
> Edit to add that I'm not talking about the movie.



Yeah, it was.  I went shopping and actually didn't have to stand in line, everyone spoke English.  It was wonderful....I keep hoping they do it again.


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## Againsheila (Jan 25, 2010)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> ...



I know a whole bunch of young, unemployed Americans that would take those jobs in a second.


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## Mr Natural (Jan 25, 2010)

Againsheila said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Clean said:
> ...



You gotta be kidding.

Todays kids getting their hands dirty?

Fat chance.


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## Againsheila (Jan 25, 2010)

Mr Clean said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> ...



I can see you don't know many of today's kids......


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## Angelhair (Jan 26, 2010)

personally don't know any unskilled laborer.
But I do know several several former engineers, salespeople, small business owners, and attorneys (yes attorneys) who are no longer employed or have lost their businesses in this economic downturn.
And I doubt that any of them would consider taking a job created by the deportation of illegals. 

_IF you don't know any unskilled laborers, what planet do you live on????  Many professionals  have gone into car dealerships asking for any type of work!!! It was a shocker to my friend's son who works for a car dealership!  He is working there to help with college tuition. One of the few business who still hire non-spanish speakers, I might add.  If you have a mortgage pmt to meet and childred to feed, your damn right they would take ANY job no matter how insignificant if it meant putting food on their table and a roof over their heads. If you don't know that, you don't know anything about AMERICANS!!!!_


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jan 26, 2010)

Mr Clean said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Clean said:
> ...



I know many undocumented brazilians and they pull in $10-$20/hour under the table doing housing construction and landscaping.


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