# Myths and facts about Jerusalem and Temple Mount



## Roudy (Feb 19, 2013)

*Myths and facts about Jerusalem and Temple Mount*

1) The Islamic claim to the Temple Mount is very recent - Jerusalem's role as "The Third Holiest Site in Islam" in mainstream Islamic writings does not precede the 1930s. It was created by the grand mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini. 

2) The Islamic claim to Jerusalem is false - There were no mosques in Jerusalem in 632 c.e. at the death of Muhammad... Jerusalem was [then] a Christian-occupied city.  The muslim "claim" to Jerusalem is allegedly based on what is written in the koran, which although does not mention Jerusalem even once, nevertheless talks of the "furthest mosque" (in Sura 17:1) Is there any foundation to the muslim argument that this "furthest mosque" (al-masujidi al-aqsa) refers to what is today called the Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem? The answer is, NO! 

3) The present Arabic name of Jerusalem is "Al-Quds"... but "Al-Quds" is an abbreviation for "The Jewish Temple"!
The Arabic name for Jerusalem is "Al-QuDS" (The Holy), which is abbreviation for another Arabic name used for Jerusalem until the last century, "Bayt al-MaQDeS" (The Holy House), since the 10th century c.e. The name "Bayt al-MaQDeS" is a translation of the Hebrew "Beyt ha-MiKDaSH", which means "House of Holiness", "Temple". But Islam has no Temple, only the Jews did. Thus the Arabic name for Jerusalem makes no reference to Muhammad's alleged trip to Heaven, but rather refers to the Jewish Temple! 
In fact, it can be seen that significant Islamic interest in the Temple Mount does not precede the Six-Day War in 1967.


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## irosie91 (Feb 19, 2013)

Jerusalem  is  important to muslims in the same way   NEW YORK and the  WORLD TRADE CENTER   is important to muslims-----important target of conquest.    When Muhummad was 
alive ----an important target of conquest was  JEWISH YATHRIB------he was so eager to OWN 
it that he ordered his own dead carcass buried there ----at which point the whole city became 
a  "HOLY MUSLIM SITE" -----thus he "conquored"  the jews of arabia in his own fevered mind.

for the record----jews never sold  Yathrib to the muslims and,  therefore,   STILL OWN IT


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## Roudy (Feb 19, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Jerusalem  is  important to muslims in the same way   NEW YORK and the  WORLD TRADE CENTER   is important to muslims-----important target of conquest.    When Muhummad was
> alive ----an important target of conquest was  JEWISH YATHRIB------he was so eager to OWN
> it that he ordered his own dead carcass buried there ----at which point the whole city became
> a  "HOLY MUSLIM SITE" -----thus he "conquored"  the jews of arabia in his own fevered mind.
> ...


Exactly, irose.  Jerusalem is symbolic, yet meaningless to Muslims.


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## irosie91 (Feb 19, 2013)

I have a  TERRIFIC IDEA     roudy------pay attention to my BRILLIANCE----I am 
such a good negotiator -------here goes. >>>>  how about a  TRADE-----
we give them  YATHRIB  (aka medina)  and promise not to bother with it anymore----
if they get the hell out of our Jerusalem -------GREAT IDEA-----I think---regarding 
rental on that BURIAL PLOT------we can give that up too.      GREAT IDEA???


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## Jroc (Feb 19, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Jerusalem  is  important to muslims in the same way   NEW YORK and the  WORLD TRADE CENTER   is important to muslims-----important target of conquest.    When Muhummad was
> alive ----an important target of conquest was  JEWISH YATHRIB------he was so eager to OWN
> it that he ordered his own dead carcass buried there ----at which point the whole city became
> a  "HOLY MUSLIM SITE" -----thus he "conquored"  the jews of arabia in his own fevered mind.
> ...



Good video


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkMolLriAkQ]No Mosque at Ground Zero - YouTube[/ame]


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## irosie91 (Feb 20, 2013)

they did it in  India too------ the important hindu temple   or  RAMA FAME--
was turned into a mosque   in   AYODHIYA -----by some creep named BARBUR---
   believe it or not-----they grabbed a synagogue in  LAHORE   too.     the mosque 
   is still on top of the synagogue.      The good news is that the  BABRY mosque 
   in   Ayodhiya    were ---partially removed to reveal the HINDU TEMPLE AGAIN 
   a few years ago       HOPEFULLY this move will start a TREND

  Last year a  2500 year old synagogue in  TUNISIA was trashed        
Trashing everyone elses shrines is what  ISA-RESPECTERS  do.  
Adolf did it in HIS   effort to   "RE WRITE HISTORY AND CULTURE"


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## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

The thing that amazes me about these threads is the sheer gullibility. 

Adult people happy to believe anything - and I mean ANYTHING - which is posted, providing it fits their political beliefs. 

No questions, no checking facts, no interest in genuine information - and a complete refusal to read any kind of quality historical research. 

The dishonest leading the blind. 

btw, A city called Ru&#353;alim in the Execration texts of the Middle Kingdom of Egypt (c. 19th century BCE) is widely, but not universally, identified as Jerusalem. Jerusalem is called Uru&#353;alimin in the Amarna letters of Abdi-Heba (1330s BCE).


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## irosie91 (Feb 20, 2013)

so???


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## GHook93 (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> The thing that amazes me about these threads is the sheer gullibility.
> 
> Adult people happy to believe anything - and I mean ANYTHING - which is posted, providing it fits their political beliefs.
> 
> ...



Well before Islam nutjob and you call yourself a journalist!


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## irosie91 (Feb 20, 2013)

Jerusalem is located in a place convenient to  sorrounding agricultural land----historically ---
it seems to be in ANCIENT  times-----a kind of  centralized area for  trade in agricultural stuffs

    salem------is a kind of alternate word  for     the fulfillment of a trade agreement---
                         like paying a bill or settling an account      FULFILLMENT----SETTLE UP---
                                                                      PAY THE BILL  ---A-OK----ALL IS WELL


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## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

iRosie - 

The point is that if you believe a word Roudy tells you without confirming the facts from a legitimate source, you are doing both yourself and the board a disservice. 

For instance, Roudy claims that there were no mosques in Jerusalem in 635, but neglects to mention that Arab people had lived in Jersualem since the Bronze Age. He also neglects to mention that the Al Aqsa mosque was built in 705, making it older than any surviving synagogue in Jerusalem. 

What you two get out of telling lies to each other I have no idea.


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## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

> Arab people have lived in Jerusalem since the bronze age....



Ha ha ha.  What a fucking ignorant illiterate idiot!  The Aqsa Mosque is sitting on a Jewish Temple!

The site on which the silver domed mosque sits, along with the Dome of the Rock, also referred to as al-Haram ash-Sharif or "Noble Sanctuary,"[2] is* the Temple Mount, the holiest site in Judaism, the place where the Temple is generally accepted to have stood. *

Al-Aqsa Mosque - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

Roudy - 

What do you get out of deliberatiely misleading people here?

Why not post with a little integrity, and stick to subjects you know something about?

Jesus man, you've never even BEEN to any of these places!


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## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> What do you get out of deliberatiely misleading people here?
> 
> ...


Hah?  Shut the fuck up you have the perceptiveness of a person with mental retardation.  You know JACKSHIT.


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## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

> 2) The Islamic claim to Jerusalem is false - There were no mosques in Jerusalem in 632 c.e. at the death of Muhammad



This is  great example of how propaganda works - 

Firstly, Roudy avoids mentioning that Arab people lived in this area since the Stone Age

Secondly, he skips around the fact that there were no mosques anywhere on earth until around 622 - so why there should have been on in Jerusalem in 635 I have no idea. The great mosque in Mecca wasn't built then either - but Roudy forgot to mention that! Some of the most important mosques in the world (e.g. al Ummayyad, Damacus) are significantly younger than Al Aqsa. 

If there is a less honest or less informed poster on this forum, I've yet to come across him.


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## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

GHook93 said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > The thing that amazes me about these threads is the sheer gullibility.
> ...


He writes articles for* Islam Daily *in English.  LOL


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## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

Roidy - 

Asking you to post honestly has nothing at all to do with defending Islam or Judaism or any other religion. 

It is just about trying to discourage you from posting what you know to be lies.


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## irosie91 (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> iRosie -
> 
> The point is that if you believe a word Roudy tells you without confirming the facts from a legitimate source, you are doing both yourself and the board a disservice.
> 
> ...



the  "facts"  you present ----are moot.   and some simply NOT FACTS at all.  
   Your claim of  "arab people living in Jerusalem ----is kinda funny      "arab" 
   people in  1200   BC   were   PEOPLE LIVING IN ARABIA     not in Jerusalem.
   BUT  people being the migratory things that they are----there is a possiblity 
   that somehow some  people from arabia moved about especially as TRADERS--
   arabians have been in the slave trade since before 1200  BC----if you are trying
   to tell me that there was an ARABIAN COMMUNITY and CULTURE  in 
   Jerusalem ----you are nuts.    I am fully aware of the fact that some of 
   your fellow nuts and historic revisionists    refer to  all sorts of places now  
   ARABIZED  by conquest----to have been  "ARABIAN"  since "creation"   ---
   nope-----arabians are people from arabia   In 1200 BC  arabic 
   was not even a written language---edomites are not "arabs"

   "SURVIVING SYNAGOGUE"???     what does that mean?    that if 
   the romans and arabs managed to TRASH THEM ALL----the jews 
   magically become a non issue?      besides----what does  "surviving" 
   mean----there were secret little synagogues in the hills thruout 
   the entire time------the SAME ONES HAVE TO BE IN USE?    
   They are being dug out of the hills all the time
   Have you decided to discount the SAMARITAN  synagogues----btw --
   just what are you calling a "synagogue"     synagogue is simply  
   a greek word-----for  HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY ----BEIT KNESSET---
   any place in which jews assmble for prayer is a  SYNAGOGUE  
   synagogues are not SPECIAL SANCTIFIED MAGICAL PLACES  
   any more than  are  quaker meeting rooms.   The only  
   SPECIAL    house of assembly for jews with some sort of  SANCTIFIED 
   issue involved is   THE TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM    and even then the 
   STRUCTURE itself is only part of the issue------the PLACE is the issue 
   I fail to see a point in your JOY over the trashing of most synagogues 
   as a way to GET RID OF PEOPLE   and  CULTURES        
   but your reaction does provide insight into the triumphalist 
   destruction of the BUDDHIST STATUARY in AFGHANISTAN.  
   YOUR focus on shrines as points of POWER and OWNERSHIP 
   is quaint and primitive.    It is very islamic but I do not think 
   you are muslim


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## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > 2) The Islamic claim to Jerusalem is false - There were no mosques in Jerusalem in 632 c.e. at the death of Muhammad
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Stone ages!  You fucking moron there were no such thing as "ARAB PEOPLE" in the Stone Ages!  What a total illiterate buffoon!  Where did you get educated, school for those with "special needs"?  I have yet to meet someone who claims to know so much, that actually knows so little!  Ha ha ha, what a DICKHEAD!

In the modern era, defining who is an Arab is done on the grounds of one or more of the following two criteria:


Distribution of Arabic as sole official language (green) and one of several official or national languages (blue).
Genealogical: s*omeone who can trace his or her ancestry to the tribes of Arabia  the original inhabitants of the Arabian Peninsula * and the Syrian Desert. This was the definition used in medieval times, for example by Ibn Khaldun, but has decreased in importance over time, as a portion of those of Arab ancestry lost their links with their ancestors' motherland. In the modern era, however, DNA tests have at times proved reliable in identifying those of Arab genealogical descent. For example,* it has been found that the frequency of the "Arab marker" Haplogroup J1 collapses suddenly at the borders of Arabic speaking countries.[27]*

Arab people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## irosie91 (Feb 20, 2013)

btw---I reviewed roudy's post-----I see no "LIES"


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## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

iRosie - 

The thing is - you must realise yourself that Roudy is both completely dishonest, and has absolutely no idea about the topic. 

Hence - why do you listen to him?

Purely and simply because you want to hear the same old myths and lies repeated?

You can do better than that, surely?


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## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> btw---I reviewed roudy's post-----I see no "LIES"



Then you don't WANT to see them.

I pointed out two, and gave you details you can confirm anywhere.


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## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > btw---I reviewed roudy's post-----I see no "LIES"
> ...


You pointed out your own stupidity and ignorance, quite successfully.


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## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

Roudy - 

Which is why you will not even attempt to sensibly address the points raised. 

You know you are lying with all of this Nazi propaganda - and the funny thing is Rosie knows it too. 

Watching you two try and trick each other into believing more and more and more unlikely horseshit is like watching two teletubbies cuddling.


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## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> Which is why you will not even attempt to sensibly address the points raised.
> 
> ...


Nazi propaganda is the crap that comes out of you.


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## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

Roidy - 

No, asking you to post honestly is not Nazi. Asking Holston to post honestly is not Nazi.

It is the two of you competing as to who can trick the most people with lies and deception that embody the spirit on Nazism. You empower each other, feed each other, and justify each other.


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## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roidy -
> 
> No, asking you to post honestly is not Nazi. Asking Holston to post honestly is not Nazi.
> 
> It is the two of you competing as to who can trick the most people with lies and deception that embody the spirit on Nazism. You empower each other, feed each other, and justify each other.


You didn't prove anything untrue about my posts, nor is it "only the two of us" that agrees or believes in those facts.  Maybe in your dreams.


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## irosie91 (Feb 20, 2013)

what are you calling    "ARAB PEOPLE"  saigon?     a  "race"?     a culture?  
a  religion?     a language?   -----a SELF IDENTIFICATION?     Are you suggesting 
that there was a community of people in Jerusalem-----who identified themselves 
CULTURALLY and LINQUISTICALLY  and  BY RELIGION and myths of origin---
 with the desert dwellers of arabia?     
Did they seek each other out for marriage?     Did the arabs of 
Jerusalem  talk about their  first cousins living in the arabian penninsula?  
DID they travel to spend time with family?    OR  did the arabs of  jerusalem 
make PILGRIMAGES TO MECCA some time around  1500 BC?       
how do you know??-----did they leave evidence of this INTERESTING 
NATIONALITY? 
   I am fascinated     I have wondered about the 
PRE ISLAMIC ARABIAN CULTURE-----especially their LEGAL SYSTEM-----obviously 
they all had the same LEGAL SYSTEM since they shared a common nationality
--------could you describe it for me?      How is it that they were spread so far and 
wide and encountered  people who had the concept of writing---but failed to 
develope a system of their own until   300 AD?    
That feature of the  "ARABIAN"  people is a bit odd


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## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

> You didn't prove anything untrue about my posts



Really?

You complain that there was no mosque in Jerusalem in 635. 

Why did you not mention that even the great mosque in Mecca (Masjid al Haram) was not open at that time either?


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## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

iRosie - 

I consider the Palestinian people to exist in the same way I consider the Italian, Canadian and German people to exist. 

Austrian people speak German - but are not German. The Swiss speak French and German, but are not French or German. 

It isn't difficult stuff really. You just have to strip out the politics and use some common sense.


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## irosie91 (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> iRosie -
> 
> The thing is - you must realise yourself that Roudy is both completely dishonest, and has absolutely no idea about the topic.
> 
> ...




I do not get my information from ROUDY-----do you think he taught me the 
history I already know?      You claim he "LIED"    what was the lie?  
You have claimed   "ARABS LIVED IN JERUSALEM SINCE THE STONE AGE"
what are you calling  "arabs"       Your statement is meaningless. 
HOW are the residents of the city which is jerusalem ----"ARABS IN THE STONE 
AGE"?         You are beginning to seem a bit insane

Ok   I got it-----way back   2000 BC   there were people in Jerusalem 
calling themselves  "ARABS"   presumably speaking arabic---and 
having shared religion and customs with the desert dwelling, 
arabic speaking people of the arabian penninsula----<<< that 
is your claim-------sure   ok    fine with me.   Can you tell me 
if they considered  arabia their  LAND OF ORIGIN?      All nations 
have an origin-----part real and part myth     what was theirs?


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## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > You didn't prove anything untrue about my posts
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Eh, why don't you find someone with your IQ level (about 70 to 75, I estimate) to argue with? You missed the whole point of it, which is the religious significance of Jerusalem as "holy to Muslims and Islam" are all based on LIES.

 Here's part of the article I posted:

2) The Islamic claim to Jerusalem is false - There were no mosques in Jerusalem in 632 c.e. at the death of Muhammad... Jerusalem was [then] a Christian-occupied city. The muslim "claim" to Jerusalem is allegedly based on what is written in the koran, which although does not mention Jerusalem even once, nevertheless talks of the "furthest mosque" (in Sura 17:1) Is there any foundation to the muslim argument that this "furthest mosque" (al-masujidi al-aqsa) refers to what is today called the Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem? The answer is, NO! 

And here is the rest:

In the days of Muhammad, who died in 632 of the Common Era, Jerusalem was a Christian-occupied city within the Byzantine Empire. Jerusalem was captured by caliph Omar only in 638 c.e., six years after Muhammad's death. Throughout all this time there were only churches in Jerusalem, and a church stood on the Temple Mount, called the Church of Saint Mary of Justinian, built in the Byzantine architectural style. The Aqsa mosque was built 20 years after the Dome of the Rock, which was built in 691-692 by caliph Abd el-Malik. The name "Omar mosque" is therefore false. In or around 711, about 80 years after Muhammad died, Malik's son, Abd el-Wahd &#8210;who ruled in 705-715&#8210; reconstructed the Christian-Byzantine Church of St. Mary and converted it into a mosque. He left the structure as it was, a typical Byzantine "basilica" structure with a row of pillars on either side of the rectangular "ship" in the centre. All he added was an onion-like dome on top of the building to make it look like a mosque. He then named it El-Aqsa, so it would sound like the one mentioned in the koran.
Consequently, it is crystal clear that Muhammad could never have had this mosque in mind when he wrote the koran (if he did so), since it did not exist for another three generations after his death. Rather, as many scholars long ago established, it is logical that Muhammad intended the mosque in Mecca as the "sacred mosque", and the mosque in Medina as the "furthest mosque". So much for the muslim claim based on the Aqsa mosque. 
With this understood, it is no wonder that Muhammad issued a strict prohibition against facing Jerusalem in prayer, a practice that had been tolerated only for some months in order to lure Jews to convert to Islam. When that effort failed, Muhammad put an abrupt stop to it on February 624. Jerusalem simply never held any sanctity for the muslims themselves, but only for the Jews in their domain. 

So, which part of this article, was the author "wrong"?  NONE.  Your response was: "Arabs have lived in Jerusalem since the Stone Ages".  You are pathetic.  

Now run along before I kick your ass some more.


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## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

> You claim he "LIED" what was the lie?



For instance, Roudy claims that there were no mosques in Jerusalem in 635, but neglects to mention that the forefathers of today's Palestinians had lived in Jersualem since the Bronze Age. 

He also forgets to inform you that even the great mosque in Mecca wasn't built in 635. 

The reat expansion in mosque building came a little later, closer to 700.


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## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

> the religious significance of Jerusalem as "holy to Muslims and Islam" are all based on LIES.



And here you go again with the lies...

Al Aqsa is one of the oldest mosques on the world - and: 

 Muslims believe that Muhammad was transported from the Sacred Mosque in Mecca to al-Aqsa during the Night Journey. Islamic tradition holds that Muhammad led prayers towards this site until the seventeenth month after the emigration, when God directed him to turn towards the Ka'aba.

Al-Aqsa Mosque - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > You claim he "LIED" what was the lie?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Which is exactly why Jerusalem could not have been "holy" to Muslims.  There were no Mosques in Jerusalem.  Ha ha ha.  What a fuckin' moron.


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## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

> 1) The Islamic claim to the Temple Mount is very recent - Jerusalem's role as "The Third Holiest Site in Islam" in mainstream Islamic writings does not precede the 1930s. It was created by the grand mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini.



This is also a lie.

*Later medieval scripts,* as well as modern-day political tracts, tend to classify al-Aqsa Mosque as the third holiest site in Islam.[71] For example, Sahih Bukhari quotes Abu al-Dardaa as saying: "the Prophet of God Muhammad said a prayer in the Sacred Mosque (in Mecca) is worth 100,000 prayers; a prayer in my mosque (in Medina) is worth 10,000 prayers; and a prayer in al-Aqsa Mosque is worth 1,000 prayers", more than in any other mosque. .

Al-Aqsa Mosque - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyone see any reference to the 1930's there?

No, it was from the Medieval period....Roudy must have 'forgotten' that.


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## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Which is exactly why Jerusalem could not have been "holy" to Muslims.  There were no Mosques in Jerusalem.  Ha ha ha.  What a fuckin' moron.



So Mecca is not holy to Muslims?

Beause there were no mosques there in 635 either. 

Jesus wept....


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## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > the religious significance of Jerusalem as "holy to Muslims and Islam" are all based on LIES.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually you fuckin' ignorant moron,  shows how much you really know, or rather don't, because Mohammad clearly gave Jerusalem to the Jews:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -


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## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > You claim he "LIED" what was the lie?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Reading comprehension problems?  

"With this understood, it is no wonder that Muhammad issued a strict prohibition against facing Jerusalem in prayer, a practice that had been tolerated only for some months in order to lure Jews to convert to Islam. When that effort failed, Muhammad put an abrupt stop to it on February 624. Jerusalem simply never held any sanctity for the Muslims themselves, but only for the Jews in their domain."


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## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

Roudy -

Perhaps go back and own up to a couple of the lies you posted, correct them, and move on. 

Try to avoid repeating them tomorrow.

Changing the topic isn't likely to fool anyone.


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## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > 1) The Islamic claim to the Temple Mount is very recent - Jerusalem's role as "The Third Holiest Site in Islam" in mainstream Islamic writings does not precede the 1930s. It was created by the grand mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And "Al Aqsa" means "over there" which could be anywhere, and according to the facts and based on the Koran itself, it could not have been in Jerusalem. 

Phew, what an idiot.  I feel like I'm talking to a 10 year old, no, make it 7.  LOL


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## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> Perhaps go back and own up to a couple of the lies you posted, correct them, and move on.
> 
> ...


No lie was posted.  I posted an article, which is based on historical facts, you have yet to provide a shred of evidence that anything that is claimed is a "lie", other than provide ample proof of your own ignorance and bigotry.


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## irosie91 (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > 1) The Islamic claim to the Temple Mount is very recent - Jerusalem's role as "The Third Holiest Site in Islam" in mainstream Islamic writings does not precede the 1930s. It was created by the grand mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What a joke you are SAIGON    Medieval  is   when the muslims and christians were 
both pulling at    Jerusalem -------nothng new-----ALL KINDS OF STUFF BECOMES 
SPECIAL  AND EXTRA SPECIAL HOLY   for muslims when they want it       The BABRY MOSQUE BECAME EXTRA SPECIAL HOLY    in ayodhiya    a few years ago too.

Wherever muslims go and establish    DAR AL ISLAM ----there are HOLY EXTRA SPECIAL 
place more often than not -----TAKE OVERS   of other religions.   
It is another fact of history  that  both jerusalem and the  al aqsa mosque 
---fell into disuse    until the  late  1800s    when jews started showing 
up as a STARTLING  increasing presence in Jerusalem     Try to be realistic 
    saigon.    
Now I understand-----you are touting the    islamic revisionist history.  
WHY NOT GO FOR BROKE and tell us that hebrew is a dialect of arabic '


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## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

> And "Al Aqsa" means "over there" which could be anywhere, and according to the facts and based on the Koran itself, it could not have been in Jerusalem.



Dude - it is in Jerusalem. Look on a map.....

Honestly, man, could you be any weaker a poster?

Try and maintain a little dignity.


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## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

Roudy - 

I have pointed out lies in posts #36, 37 and 40. 

An honest poster would acknolwedge and correct them.

You won't.


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## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

Rosie - 

Try and focus. 

Roudy lied and told you that Al Aqsa only became the third holiest shrine in Islam in the 1930's. 

Actually, it was named as 3rd holiest shrine in Medieval times. 

Roudy lied to you, and again you seem to have been taken in by it.


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## Lipush (Feb 20, 2013)

Let all 3 religions pray in the Temple mount. Without violence.

case closed.


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## irosie91 (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Which is exactly why Jerusalem could not have been "holy" to Muslims.  There were no Mosques in Jerusalem.  Ha ha ha.  What a fuckin' moron.
> ...




youe ANSWER  makse no sense   SAIGON---the islamic claim regarding the 
midnite horse ride of  Muhummad is that he FLEW TO A MOSQUE  ---the FURTHEST 
MOSQUE ------which did not exist -----it is just a myth later thrown into 
tne    koran but recounting an event that was supposed to have taken 
place during the life time of Muhummad      OK???    Lets be polite and 
call it a kind of weird parable type thing.   Things get messed up when a 
book is written  about  a person's life -----100 years later---especially if 
there is no documentary evidence upon which to rely.   Mecca is holy 
to muslims because it was a holy city to the pre islamic arabians so it 
was ADAPTED to the new religion     and   the founder of islam   MUHUMMAD 
declared it so during his life-time
      The JERUSALEM claim is an after-thought.   What you are doing   SAIGON--
is developing a system by which ANY  group of people can make 
FLAMBOYANT world wide claims to  "HOLY PLACES"   retrospectively regardless 
of real history----or even LONG TIME ACCEPTED HISTORY.   I have no doubt 
that I can develope a reason to make LAHORE PAKISTAN ---a 
HOLY JEWISH CITY       afterall----there is an old synagogue buried there---
its a lot more jewish than  jerusalem was  "arab"   in  630  AD 

Mecca----is not "HOLY"  to any  EXTANT religion other than 'islam' 
so there is no dispute.    When the muslims manage to kill all the 
jews----they can have jerusalem-----they got rid of all the pre islamic 
whatever was their religion in arabia----so they get MECCA all to 
themselves      In fact they can have medina too----just due to 
lack of general interest in that hell hole


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 20, 2013)

Lipush said:


> Let all 3 religions pray in the Temple mount. Without violence.
> 
> case closed.




you are nice  Lipush---but unrealistic


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Rosie -
> 
> Try and focus.
> 
> ...


Nah, you're just making shit up as you go along.  First you claimed Arabs who are considered from Arabia lived in Jerusalem in the "Stone Ages".  Where's your proof of that bald faced lie?  

Meanwhile, here's some free education:

1922: Amin Al-Husseini implements restoration of Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. He has the Dome gold-plated for the first time.  Thereafter, Jerusalem takes on more importance as Holy Muslim site in the eyes of the Arab World.  

 Al-Aqsa Mosque (Arabic:&#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1587;&#1580;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1602;&#1589;&#1609; al-Masjid al-Aqsa, IPA: [&#660;æl&#712;mæs&#658;&#618;d æl&#712;&#660;&#593;qs&#740;&#593;] ( listen), "the Farthest Mosque")

Masjid al-Aqsa translates from Arabic into English as "the farthest mosque." The name refers to a chapter of the Qur'an called "The Night Journey" in which it is said that Muhammad traveled from Mecca to "the farthest mosque,"

Initially, Rashidun and Umayyad-era scholars were in disagreement about the location of the "remotest sanctuary" with some arguing it was actually located near Mecca.

Al-Aqsa Mosque - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Lipush said:


> Let all 3 religions pray in the Temple mount. Without violence.
> 
> case closed.


Easier said than done.  LOL


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

Roudy -

So thus far you have been caught in at least three obvious lies - possubly more.

Why not show a liitle dignity and admit those lies, rather than just repeat them again tomorrow?

Start by admitting that admitting that the idea of Al Aqsa being the 3rd holiest shrine in Islam dates vack to Medieval times - not 1930, as you claimed.

Just be honest.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> I have pointed out lies in posts #36, 37 and 40.
> 
> ...


Pay close attention now, idiot.  This is going to require all of your concentration.  According to the Koran, Mohammad dies and his soul ascends to heaven from the "farthest* mosque*", since there were NO MOSQUES, I repeat, NO MOSQUES in Jerusalem at the time, his soul could not have ascended from a "mosque" in Jerusalem.  Logic 101.  Therefore, the whole claim for Jerusalem being holy to Muslims is BASELESS.  Comprende?  

Now, study hard I will quiz you on this tomorrow.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

Roudy - 

You have been caught lying. Please address the lies. Shall I post them again for you?


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 20, 2013)

Roudy    I think saigon is on a MISSION  to prove 
that    PALESTINE IS MUSLIM LAND      I understand 
his approach because even though I knew that muslims 
see  ALL OF THE MIDDLE EAST AS "MUSLIM LAND" 
I was hit with the SOPHISTRY  of   THE MOGHUL 
EMPIRE   a lot harder than the sophistry of 
MUSLIM PALESTINE ---early in life.      It is even more 
tenuous       but  pakistanis and Indian muslims 
argue with just as much fervor and nonsensical 
"logic"   as to why MUSLIMS OWN THE INDIAN
SUBCONTINENT   as Saigon uses for  "ARAB" 
ownership of  palestine      Nigerian muslims also 
OWN   nigeria         I do not know if saigon is 
muslim-----but he is playing the  DAR AL ISLAM 
card


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> You have been caught lying. Please address the lies. Shall I post them again for you?


Can you show us how "Arabs have been living in Jerusalem since the Stone Ages?"  Let's start with that one, first. This is very interesting.  Ha ha ha!


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Roudy    I think saigon is on a MISSION  to prove
> that    PALESTINE IS MUSLIM LAND      I understand
> his approach because even though I knew that muslims
> see  ALL OF THE MIDDLE EAST AS "MUSLIM LAND"
> ...


That is true irose.  They approach it from various roads, but they all lead to the same crap.  Saigoon is like a circus clown that repeats Nazi propaganda.  His claim that Jews trying to save themselves from the Nazi gas chambers as "collaboration" is a perfect example.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 20, 2013)

all of Saigon's stuff does show up in the USA  nazi literature ---he could 
be picking it up  at gun shows or  when he seeks out nazi memorablia.  
I read nazi literature LONG LONG ago------and the stuff is old-----it 
has been going on for a LONG LONG TIM. 

Nothing can refute it-----I did find stuff in the dead sea scrolls---
to refute some nazi arguements-----but the answer was easy----
since the dead sea scrolls were brought to light  when they were 
in the hands of JOOOOOS    the answer was simple-----the 
JOOOOS FORGED AND ALTERED STUFF

as to saigon going to Israel      yeah so?     do did Eichmann---that is pre 
1948   Israel       nazis are attracted to jews


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

It amazes me why Roudy posts lies here everday, gets caught, and then just carries on as if nothing ever happened.

It does make me wonder if the stupidity and dishonesty are deliberate.....what would that mean, I wonder?


----------



## Lipush (Feb 20, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > Let all 3 religions pray in the Temple mount. Without violence.
> ...



I know its all wishful thinking, but I believe that's the right way.

All monotheistic religions believe they are the ones to cherish the temple mount most, and I believe that we waste so much energy and blood on bad bahaviour in the place, no matter who does it. It's such a waste, and if there is a possibility to put a red line and decide that all behave nicely or ALL hooligans thrown out into a tiny cell, believe me, in matter of 1 month all visitors will learn to behave and respect one another.


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> It amazes me why Roudy posts lies here everday, gets caught, and then just carries on as if nothing ever happened.
> 
> It does make me wonder if the stupidity and dishonesty are deliberate.....what would that mean, I wonder?



LOL, I just read the thread and he refused to be honest about those points you made. Other than that all I saw from him was name calling. You sure won that debate....


----------



## Jroc (Feb 20, 2013)

Lipush said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



Its only since the Jews have been in control, that all faiths have the freedom to visit their holy places, however you can't completely control how people act


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

BIK - 

I don't know why he does it. Day after day, the same old lies - followed by the same old meltdowns when he gets caught. 

It's bizarre.


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> BIK -
> 
> I don't know why he does it. Day after day, the same old lies - followed by the same old meltdowns when he gets caught.
> 
> It's bizarre.



As long as it will suit their agenda they will accept as fact without looking into what they say regardless of whether it has any truth in it........


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

Jroc said:


> Its only since the Jews have been in control, that all faiths have the freedom to visit their holy places, however you can't completely control how people act



This is isn't strictly true - access to Temple Mount is at least partially controlled by Palestine authorities, and access to various Christian monuments is at least partially controlled by relevent authorities of each church.

It is not unknown for Greek and Russian Orthodox priests to slug it out in the church when issues arise. 

On the upside, as a tourist most sites are open all year round without any major issues. I think it's a credit to all of the churches involved and to Israeli and Palestinian authorities that access is as good as it is.


----------



## Lipush (Feb 20, 2013)

Jroc said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



In that case, we need to set a bunch of rules and make sure all follow them, and that they know what'll happen once they DON'T follow.


----------



## Lipush (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Its only since the Jews have been in control, that all faiths have the freedom to visit their holy places, however you can't completely control how people act
> ...



The Palestinians have longed ago complained about our "filthy" presence, and the fact that it's DIRTY and should not take place in their holy sites.

If it was up to them? We would have seen our holy places in Jerusalem only in photos.


----------



## Jroc (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Its only since the Jews have been in control, that all faiths have the freedom to visit their holy places, however you can't completely control how people act
> ...



Before 67' Jews were not allowed to visit their holy sites..Get it straight


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 20, 2013)

Oh you poor little bunny, those evil, evil Palestinians.


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 20, 2013)

Lipush said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Jroc said:
> ...



Really? As far as I remember, Palestinians complain when you disrespect their holy sites and walk in with shoes and the Israeli army for the sole purpose of mocking them.


----------



## Jroc (Feb 20, 2013)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enT0-OnpPHM]Arab Denial of the Existence of the Temple and a Jewish Historical Connection to Jerusalem - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

Lipush said:


> The Palestinians have longed ago complained about our "filthy" presence, and the fact that it's DIRTY and should not take place in their holy sites.
> 
> If it was up to them? We would have seen our holy places in Jerusalem only in photos.



That could be - but I can only say that as a tourist I've never had any problem visiting Islamic sites in Jerusalem.


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 20, 2013)

Oh wow, a Israeli said so, so that must be true. Look, I watched a youtube video. I'm smart. All the evidence right there.


----------



## Lipush (Feb 20, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...



In case you've missed-


Are your Palestinians lecturers THAT ignorant when they say we have NO CONNECTION AT ALL the the LAST remains of the HOLY TEMPLE???

SERIOUSLY?!?!?!?!?!?!?


----------



## Lipush (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > The Palestinians have longed ago complained about our "filthy" presence, and the fact that it's DIRTY and should not take place in their holy sites.
> ...



F'course not.

Why would you?

It will be visiting the _Jewish sites_ which will have a little struggle with visiting, if our holy sites wll be in Palestinian hands.


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 20, 2013)

Typical irrelevant videos posted by you. Just scrap up one or two people, disregard the Islamic stance on Jerusalem. The widely accepted stance by Islamic scholars. Just show one or two guys saying something that has no meaning, while the Israeli army controls who gets to worship where, and often times denies access to many people to worship. You poor little bunnies, playin victim all the time I see. So tell me why I'm not allowed any access to Jerusalem by the Israeli government, yes me personally.


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 20, 2013)

Palestinian Christians and Muslims have to get permits from the Israeli government to visit holy sites. Yet Lipush makes it sound as if Palestinians prevent Israelis from going to their holy sites.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> BIK -
> 
> I don't know why he does it. Day after day, the same old lies - followed by the same old meltdowns when he gets caught.
> 
> It's bizarre.


Are you talking in the mirror now?  Oh I forgot, you're talking to another ignorant donkey like yourself.  

Show us how Arabs go back to Jerusalem to the Stone Ages. And while you're at it, tell us the Islamo-Nazi lie that because some Jews negotiated with the Nazis to save some Jewish lives, that adds up to having the same level of collaboration as the MUSLIMS had and specifically the Mufti of Jerusalem.  

Admit that you lied and now you're accusing others to cover up your own bullcrap. In posts 1 to 1000.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> Typical irrelevant videos posted by you. Just scrap up one or two people, disregard the Islamic stance on Jerusalem. The widely accepted stance by Islamic scholars. Just show one or two guys saying something that has no meaning, while the Israeli army controls who gets to worship where, and often times denies access to many people to worship. You poor little bunnies, playin victim all the time I see. So tell me why I'm not allowed any access to Jerusalem by the Israeli government, yes me personally.


The reason Jews, Christians and Muslim animals get to worship is because Jews are tolerant and in control of the security.  Whereas Muslims have proven exactly the opposite. That is exactly why Christians and Bahaiis feel totally okay with letting Jews provide the security of those site.  Muslims should always be thankful that Jews allow them to have control of their holy site.  And don't forget that, Abdul.


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 20, 2013)

Do you actually believe your lies? I've been to several Islamic countries, Egypt for example, has hundreds if not thousands of churches just in Cairo alone. Which I saw in person. Just because you say something doesn't mean it's true.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> Palestinian Christians and Muslims have to get permits from the Israeli government to visit holy sites. Yet Lipush makes it sound as if Palestinians prevent Israelis from going to their holy sites.


Nah, that's just made up Shiite.


----------



## Jroc (Feb 20, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> Palestinian Christians and Muslims have to get permits from the Israeli government to visit holy sites. Yet Lipush makes it sound as if Palestinians prevent Israelis from going to their holy sites.



The muslims spread the hate, there can't be any peace when government sponsored television ect.. Spread hate. Don't bother to post some stupid video of individule Jews, the Israeli government doesn't push hatred of muslims. This is why there must be an acceptance of Israel's right to exist as a *Jewish state* and stopping the propaganda, the hatred, the brainwashing of children, which is not only accepted by the "Palestinian" authorities, it is pushed by them.


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 20, 2013)

Roudy said:


> BecauseIKnow said:
> 
> 
> > Palestinian Christians and Muslims have to get permits from the Israeli government to visit holy sites. Yet Lipush makes it sound as if Palestinians prevent Israelis from going to their holy sites.
> ...



WEST BANK: Palestinian Christians denied access to holy places in Jerusalem during Easter - latimes.com


Since Israel cut off East Jerusalem from the rest of the occupied Palestinian territories in the early 1990s, Palestinian residents of the West Bank and Gaza Strip *have been required to get Israeli army permission before they can enter Jerusalem.
*


*These permits do not come easily*. They are usually issued to sick people trying to get treatment in Jerusalem or Israeli hospitals, or to businesspeople. Often they are given to workers because Israel can use the cheap West Bank and Gaza labor force. But for people who want to visit family members living in East Jerusalem or take a tour of the Old City or pray at their holy sites, permits become a scarcity.

Really, that's made up 'Shiite'? 

I know people in the West Bank personally. Even israelis know this.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> Do you actually believe your lies? I've been to several Islamic countries, Egypt for example, has hundreds if not thousands of churches just in Cairo alone. Which I saw in person. Just because you say something doesn't mean it's true.


Did you see in person how Egyptians keep persecuting Christians, bombing their churches, and finding different ways to massacre them?  Talk about ethnic cleansing...how does a majority Christian country like Egypt become Muslim majority?  All those Christians willingly converted?  Ha ha ha. 

I know a few Egyptian Copts myself, not ONE of them has anything good to say about the treatment they received at the hands of the Muslims. Now why is that Abdul?


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Jroc said:


> BecauseIKnow said:
> 
> 
> > Palestinian Christians and Muslims have to get permits from the Israeli government to visit holy sites. Yet Lipush makes it sound as if Palestinians prevent Israelis from going to their holy sites.
> ...


Exactly, this conflict has never been about land and always been about Muslim hatred and intolerance.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

Roudy - 


> Now why is that Abdul?



Probably because you are making it up. 

You've been caught in three quite significant lies already on this thread - why stop at three?


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Exactly, this conflict has never been about land and always been about Muslim hatred and intolerance.



What about your own hatred and intolerance?

Why is that never an issue for you, even on a thread where you've been caught lying through your teeth?


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > BecauseIKnow said:
> ...


Well OF COURSE that goes for those for those that live in the West Bank. Do you really think Israelis are going to welcome anymore suicide bombing animals with open arms?  But for those Arab Muslims and Christians that live inside Israel, or are visiting from abroad, no permit is required.


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Exactly, this conflict has never been about land and always been about Muslim hatred and intolerance.
> ...



I just caught him in a lie. He claimed Palestinians don't need permits to visit holy sites.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

*Roudy's Lies*  #1 in an endless series



> The Islamic claim to the Temple Mount is very recent - Jerusalem's role as "The Third Holiest Site in Islam" in mainstream Islamic writings does not precede the 1930s.



Actually, the claim dates back to the Medieval period. 

In terms of the virtue of a religious site, and the value of prayers performed within it, Muslims believe that the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem is the third most virtuous mosque based on a Hadith narrated by the companion Abu Darda. Abu Darda records him saying "the Prophet of Allah Muhammad said a prayer in the Sacred Mosque (in Mecca) is worth 100,000 prayers; a prayer in my mosque (in Medina) is worth 1,000 prayers; and a prayer in al-Masjid al-Aqsa sanctuary (in Jerusalem) is worth 500 prayers more than in any other mosque.

Holiest sites in Sunni Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 20, 2013)

Roudy said:


> BecauseIKnow said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha! Man you're excuses are funny after you are caught in yet another lie!


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> 
> > Now why is that Abdul?
> ...


Ya okay, whatever.  

Tell us again how Arabs go back to Jerusalem to the Stone Ages?  Ha ha ha.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Tell us again how Arabs go back to Jerusalem to the Stone Ages?  Ha ha ha.



I can explain this very easily - but we both know you are not listening, and will tell the same lies again tomorrow. It's what you do, as we see on this thread.

btw, It's the BRONZE age - not the stone ages.

For anyone who is interested in this topic - 

'Ceramic evidence indicates occupation of the City of David, within present-day Jerusalem, as far back as the Copper Age (c. 4th millennium BCE),[1][58] with evidence of a permanent settlement during the early Bronze Age (c. 3000&#8211;2800 BCE).[58][59] The Execration Texts (c. 19th century BCE), which refer to a city called rw&#353;3lmm, variously transcribed as Ru&#353;alimum/Uru&#353;alimum/Rôsh-ramen[58][60] and the Amarna letters (c. 14th century BCE) may be the earliest mention of the city.[61][62] Some archaeologists, including Kathleen Kenyon, believe Jerusalem was founded by Northwest Semitic people with organized settlements from around 2600 BCE. Nadav Na'aman argues its fortification as the centre of a kingdom dates to around the 18th century BCE.[63] The first settlement lay on the Ophel ridge.[64] The biblical account first mentions Jerusalem ("Salem") as ruled by Melchizedek, an ally of Abraham.

In the late *Bronze Age Jerusalem was the capital of an Egyptian vassal city-state*, a modest settlement governing a few outlying villages and pastoral areas, with a small Egyptian garrison and ruled by appointees such as king Abdi-Heba,[66] At the time of Seti I and Ramesses II, major construction took place as prosperity increased...'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem

As most people know, the Ancient Egyptians were the forefathers of Egyptian Arabs - just as the people living in Jerusalem were the forefathers of today's Palestinians. Genetic testing has established this quite clearly. While the labels used for people has changed over the centuries, there is a clear and definite genetic link between the Palestinians of 2013 and the Bronze Age inhabitants of the land they live on.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

*Roudy's Lies #2*



> it can be seen that significant Islamic interest in the Temple Mount does not precede the Six-Day War in 1967.



The Temple Mount, known in Hebrew  as Har haBáyith  and in Arabic (and in Islam) as the Haram Ash-Sharif , is one of the most important religious sites in the Old City of Jerusalem. It has been used as a religious site for thousands of years. At least four religions are known to have used the Temple Mount: Judaism, Christianity, Roman paganism, and Islam.

Among Sunni Muslims, the Mount is widely considered to be the third holiest site in Islam. Revered as the Noble Sanctuary (Bait-ul-Muqaddas) and the location of Muhammad's journey to Jerusalem and ascent to heaven, the site is also associated with Jewish biblical prophets who are also venerated in Islam. After the Muslim conquest of Jerusalem in 637 CE, Umayyad Caliphs commissioned the construction of the al-Aqsa Mosque and Dome of the Rock on the site. The Dome was completed in *692 CE,* making it *one of the oldest extant Islamic structures in the world, after the Kaabah.* The Al Aqsa Mosque rests on the far southern side of the Mount, facing Mecca. The Dome of the Rock currently sits in the middle, occupying or close to the area where the Bible mandates the Holy Temple be rebuilt.

Temple Mount - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So according to Roudy the site was not of any interest to Muslims - despite the fact it is the point from which Muslims believe Mohammed ascended to heaven. 

Likely?

I think not.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> *Roudy's Lies*  #1 in an endless series
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What are you, dumb as a doorknob? Or you just can't read.  I posted this before many times. It wasn't *MAINSTREAM* Islamic belief that Jerusalem was the location of Al Aqsa since the word Al Aqsa simply means over there, and there were NO MOSQUES IN JERUSALEM for Mohammad's soul to ascend from, at the time of his death, which it clearly so in the Koran. Therefore it's location being in Jerusalem has been debated back and forth by many Islamic scholars and historians, who believed the location of the Al Aqsa was Mecca, which DID HAVE MOSQUES.  

The Nazi Arab Mufti of Jerusalem, as an Arab nationalist wanted to bring the attention back to Jerusalem and through a reconstruction project which he painted the Dome golden.  Since then has the mosque become part of MAINSTREAM Islamic belief. 

I bet you the fucking idiot is not going to get it again.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

Roudy - 

So you contention is that in the Koran it claims that Mohammed ascended to heaven from a mosque, despite the fact that no mosques existed prior to his death? 

Interesting. 

Hilarious, but interesting.

Al Aqsa does not mean "over there", by the way, it means "the farthest mosque".

Masjid al-Aqsa translates from Arabic into English as "the farthest mosque." The name refers to a chapter of the Qur'an called "The Night Journey" in which it is said that Muhammad traveled from Mecca to "the farthest mosque," and then up to Heaven on a heavenly creature called al-Buraq al-Sharif.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Aqsa_Mosque

You will now claim to have known this.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Tell us again how Arabs go back to Jerusalem to the Stone Ages?  Ha ha ha.
> ...


Ooooo....that wasn't even a nice try!  As most people know we all come from the same genes going back millions of years. 

But suddenly, Egyptians who are AFRICANS originally, suddenly became more Semetic than JEWS, going back to the Bronze Age.  Yup, let's ignore the hundreds of thousands of Jewish artifacts and archeological sites going back thousands of years.  "Israel is Arab land, they go back to the Bronze Age". Or is it BOZO AGE?  

Talk about lying and stretching the truth....YOU ARE FULLA SHIT.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> So you contention is that in the Koran it claims that Mohammed ascended to heaven from a mosque, despite the fact that no mosques existed prior to his death?
> 
> ...


Unlike you, I speak Arabic "over there" and ""farthest" can be said using the same words. Surprised? Besides whether it's farthest or over there, again....THERE WAS NO MOSQUE IN JERUSALEM AT THAT TIME, so it COULDN'T "farthest" or "over there". Take your pick, numbskull!  LOL.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

> As most people know we all come from the same genes going back millions of years.



True - but not all peoples have remained in largely the same place for all of those years. 

You do not live where your forefathers lived 100,000 years ago.

Very, very many Palestinians do.



> let's ignore the hundreds of thousands of Jewish artifacts and archeological sites going back thousands of years



Who said Jews did not live there too?

It is typical of your black/white world view that you imagine that only one people could live in one place at one time, but as anyone who has spent anytime in cities like Jersualem or Jericho will tell you, both Jews and Palestinians can trace their roots back in these cities for 3,000 years or so. 

You will never understand the complexity of this conflict as long as you think one city is Jewish and another Palestinian. If it was that simple, the dispute would have been resolved in 1948.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

*Roudy's Lies #3*



> The Islamic claim to Jerusalem is false - There were no mosques in Jerusalem in 632 c.e. at the death of Muhammad... Jerusalem was [then] a Christian-occupied city.



Actually, there was no mosque in Mecca in 632 either. 

So apparently, Mecca is not an Islamic city. 

Brilliant.


----------



## Lipush (Feb 20, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> Typical irrelevant videos posted by you. Just scrap up one or two people, disregard the Islamic stance on Jerusalem. The widely accepted stance by Islamic scholars. Just show one or two guys saying something that has no meaning, while the Israeli army controls who gets to worship where, and often times denies access to many people to worship. You poor little bunnies, playin victim all the time I see. So tell me why I'm not allowed any access to Jerusalem by the Israeli government, yes me personally.



And you can thank your brothers for that fact. Their bullying is ruining it for the rest of your people. Look for the answers at home.


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 20, 2013)

How arrogant of you.


----------



## AsheedMidrarwz (Feb 20, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> How arrogant of you.



You're stupid.


----------



## AsheedMidrarwz (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> What do you get out of deliberatiely misleading people here?
> 
> ...



You ever been to the moon?  Next time it comes out I'll just pretend it isn't there because you've never been there.  Dumb ass.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> *Roudy's Lies #3*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually there were THREE MOSQUES in Mecca in 632, you fucking lying MORON. And, and additional five more built BEFORE the Al Aqsa (built in 705), in places such as India 628, Tunisia 670 which are definitely "farther" than Jerusalem. 

Let me know when you're done eating shit and exposing yourself as an ignorant liar.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_oldest_mosques_in_the_world

Quba Mosque, Medina	, Saudi Arabia	622	Sunni Oldest mosque site, but building largely rebuilt in late 20th century.

Al-Masjid al-Nabawi, Medina, Saudi Arabia, 622, Islam	Site of pilgrimage. Contains Muhammad's tomb. Largely rebuilt and greatly enlarged in late 20th century, whilst retaining at its heart the earlier construction of the Ottomans, and landmark green dome.

Masjid al-Qiblatain, Medina	Saudi Arabia, 623, Sunni	Mosque of the two Qiblas


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

> Actually there were THREE MOSQUES in Mecca in 632, you fucking lying MORON.



They are in Medina, genius - NOT MECCA.


You have to laugh, but on the other hand.....there is something tragic about seeing such ignorance flaunted with such pride.


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > Actually there were THREE MOSQUES in Mecca in 632, you fucking lying MORON.
> 
> 
> 
> They are in Medina, genius - NOT MECCA.



Lmao.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

AsheedMidrarwz said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy -
> ...


That's his favorite shtick. He disqualifies other posters simply based on their having been to a place or not. Not that it works, it that's all he's got, false accusations, lies, and arrogance.


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > Actually there were THREE MOSQUES in Mecca in 632, you fucking lying MORON.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's intentional, lots of Israelis act as if they arrogant. But they aren't, it's intentional. I've lived with Israelis back in 2004 for 6 months.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > Actually there were THREE MOSQUES in Mecca in 632, you fucking lying MORON.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Try to follow, you stupid fuck.  The reason Jerusalem is "said" to be important to Muslims is although Mohammad never set foot there, the claim is that his "spirit" ascended from this so called  "farthest mosque", according to the Koran.  But at the time there was no mosque in Jerusalem. Which means it could not have been Jerusalem. PERIOD. 

Mecca and Medina are where Mohammad spent most of his time terrorizing, stealing, raiding caravans, and raping people. It is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT if there was a mosque there at the time of his death. Which, by the way, there still was a mosque in Mecca BEFORE Al Aqsa in 638. 

Wow, did you get dropped on your head or thrown at the wall as a child?  LOL


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

> He disqualifies other posters simply based on their having been to a place or not



Absolutely, I do. 

To me it's just common sense - if you haven't been to Beirut, don't try and tell the rest of us what it is like, when most of us have been there. 

It's like telling someone what a movie is like when they have seen it and you haven't.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > > Actually there were THREE MOSQUES in Mecca in 632, you fucking lying MORON.
> ...



I always enjoyed the company of Israelis in Israel, and found most of them warm, educated and welcoming. I also found their views on the conflict often generous, tolerant and very well-informed. 

Basically the opposite of Roudy, then.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > > Actually there were THREE MOSQUES in Mecca in 632, you fucking lying MORON.
> ...


Eh donkey boy...I'm not Israeli.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > He disqualifies other posters simply based on their having been to a place or not
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh okay, continue to display your ignorance then. Ha ha ha.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Eh donkey boy...I'm not Israeli.



Yes....I think we knew that. 

An Israeli would know that Mecca and Medina are different places.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> BecauseIKnow said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


Are you claiming that you are like the Israelis?  Ha ha ha!  

Do Israelis think Jews "collaborated" with the Nazis by negotiating to save Jewish lives from the gas chambers as you do?  Or would that be Neo Nazis and ignorant Islamic donkeys that spread lies and anti semetism?  

NO need to answer that question!


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 20, 2013)

What? Sometimes I never understand the things you post........ You have all these crazy thoughts in your head.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Eh donkey boy...I'm not Israeli.
> ...


I didn't compare There being no mosque in Mecca to Jerusalem, YOU DID. 

Zmal (donkey in arabic), no mosque in Jerusalem when Mohammad died, yes or no. THe Al Aqsa claim is false just like most of the shit that Mohammad made up. Aren't you a Muslim?  Does your Koran say that his spirit rose from a mosque or not?  Ha ha ha.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

> Do Israelis think Jews "collaborated" with the Nazis by negotiating to save Jewish lives from the gas chambers as you do?



Most people rely on facts, Roudy. And the collaboration that took place in Budapest is a fact. 

I was actually told the full story in Israel, by a Hungarian Jew, as it happens. 

Of course you wouldn't know about it, because we both know you have 0 interest in this topic beyond hatred and racism, but that doesn't mean other people know more.


----------



## Jos (Feb 20, 2013)

Roudy bases his OP claim based on a blog owned by an Italian, 


> What is Imninalu.net?
> 
> Memorium for the Israeli singer, with background, discography, and related links.. The owner of the site is Alexandro Revello. Im Ninalu.


Imninalu.net - The Voice of Heaven - Ofrah Haza - From Alexandro Revello | Hosting Analysis #900,132


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > Do Israelis think Jews "collaborated" with the Nazis by negotiating to save Jewish lives from the gas chambers as you do?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As it happens, that's not collaboration or anywhere even close to collaboration on the same level that the Mufti declared himself a Nazi and created armies to fight side by side with the Nazis. Only a fucking idiot would make such a comparison.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Jos said:


> Roudy bases his OP claim based on a blog owned by an Italian,
> 
> 
> > What is Imninalu.net?
> ...


Baz ke to goh khordi bacheh kooni.

Look, take a ticket and stand in line, at this time I'm busy feeding Saigooon and Because KnowsJackshit some poop.


----------



## Jos (Feb 20, 2013)

> *In 1940, representatives of the underground Zionist group Lehi met with von Hentig to propose direct military cooperation with the Nazis for the continuation of the transfer of European Jews to Palestine*


Haavara Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## GHook93 (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> What do you get out of deliberatiely misleading people here?



LOL, now that's the pot calling the kettle black!


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

Roudy said:


> As it happens, that's not collaboration or anywhere even close to collaboration on the same level that the Mufti declared himself a Nazi and created armies to fight side by side with the Nazis. Only a fucking idiot would make such a comparison.



Unfortunately, that makes Hannah Arendt and Raul Hillberg "fucking idiots". Both use the term "collaboration". As does the UK National Education Service...

*
Collaboration*

Very soon after Hitler came to power in Germany, the Hungarian government attempted to build an alliance with Nazi Germany.

In September 1938, following the German annexation of the Sudetenland area of Czechoslovakia, a portion of the area was given to Hungary in order to build relations between the two nations. Over the next 3 years, as Germany invaded and controlled countries surrounding Hungary, Germany gave Hungary possession of other lands. By March 1941, the Jewish population in Hungarian controlled land had reached in excess of 725,000.

Hungary's allegiance with Nazi Germany - Key Stage 3 - The Holocaust Explained

And the European Jewish Times

During the past decade and a half since the fall of Communism and the dismemberment of the Soviet Union, one of the important aspects of the history of the Holocaust which has received renewed attention, is the *issue of local collaboration *with the Nazis. 

http://www.shalom-magazine.com/Article.php?id=420312

I didn't get a reply to this....puzzling....


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

Jos said:


> Roudy bases his OP claim based on a blog owned by an Italian,



I noticed that. 

Whether Roudy believed any of the utter shit when he posted it is debatable - I tend to think that he knew it was worthless when he posted it, but I could be wrong. 

The fact that he apparently thought Mecca and Medina were the same place (they are about 400 kms apart) suggests he would believe almost anything at all.


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > Do Israelis think Jews "collaborated" with the Nazis by negotiating to save Jewish lives from the gas chambers as you do?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We can watch this video about Edwin Black speaking about his book The Transfer. 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk24LXer8kw]Edwin Black: 25th Anniversary of Transfer Agreement Pt. 1 - YouTube[/ame]

However, Edwin Black would also like you to push this book.  I don't think this one made the hate sites yet.

EDWIN BLACK ON C-SPAN: THE FARHUD: THE ROOTS OF THE ARAB-NAZI ALLIANCE DURING WWII??. |


----------



## Jos (Feb 20, 2013)

> The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
> Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
> Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
> Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it



-- Omar Khayyam


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 20, 2013)

Jews have been making "deals"   with  nazi pigs since the time rome occupied 
Israel/Judea------an early COLLABORATOR  was Josephus Flavius     In fact ---'nazi pigs could just as well term   Queen esther of Persia a collaborator as 
refer to the persons involved in the  transfer agreememt  "collaborators"
-----and no doubt---nazi pigs do so refer to her.    Joseph  "collaborated" 
with  the Pharoah of egypt-----  

all of this stuff is simply a negative reaction to the fact that thousands of nations over the past  4000 years have become extinct but despite the best 
efforts of the nazi/amalekim pigs-----fews have survived so it must be because 
THEY HAVE EVIL WAYS       now go away saigon


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 20, 2013)

Edwin Black     another man without a salary who sings for his supper 
   LOL---"INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER,  AUTHOR"   aka    
no job ---no salary----try to write and say that which SELLS


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 20, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Edwin Black     another man without a salary who sings for his supper
> LOL---"INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER,  AUTHOR"   aka
> no job ---no salary----try to write and say that which SELLS


I think you are mistaken about Edwin Black. I am sure, IRosie, that you are aware that The Transfer is a very favorite of the hate sites, probably because they couldn't stand to see some Jews rescued from the Nazis and would rather have seen these Jews die in the concentration camps.  All that Edwin Black is trying to explain is why and what happened, not the baloney you see on the hate sites about this book.  That is probably why he went on to write his book 

Recounting ?Farhud? tha... JPost - Features - Insights & Features


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Jos said:


> > *In 1940, representatives of the underground Zionist group Lehi met with von Hentig to propose direct military cooperation with the Nazis for the continuation of the transfer of European Jews to Palestine*
> 
> 
> Haavara Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Oh boy another righteous person who tried to save the Jews from the gas chambers.  Let's review your beloved Nazi Muslim's credentials one more time:

Amin Al Husseini: Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood





Amin Al Hussseini meets Croat Nazi A.Artukovic and M,Budak, planning Serbian genocide.





Amin Al Husseini with one of his Nazi Muslim Troops - 1943 Hanzar SS Division.





Berlin-1942
Amin Al Husseini spends WWII by Hitler's side.





Amin Al Husseini inspecting Nazi Muslim troops - 1943





Nazi propaganda poster featuring Amin Al Husseini recruiting young Muslims.





Amin Al Husseini Head of SS Muslim Hanzar Division





Amin Al Husseini in Berlin during World War II.





Bosnian Nazi Muslim Flag under Amin Al Husseini - 1943





Muslim Nazi troops in traditional Muslim prayer -1943

1941: Amin Al-Husseini in Berlin meets [xxiii] with Adolf Hitler [xxiv] and is active in the decision to exterminate all Jews through the infamous Final Solution [xxv] . Hitler was reportedly content with deporting the Jews out of Europe to Palestine.  Husseini perceived this as a threat to his stronghold in Palestine and pushed successfully for the extermination of the European Jews.    

1941: April 25th. Amin Al-Husseini is made chief architect [xxvii] of Nazi offensive in Bosnia:  Serbian-Cyrillic alphabet outlawed. Orthodox Serbs forced to wear Blue armband.  Jewish Serbs forced to wear Yellow armband.

While in Bosnia, Amin Al-Husseini takes the title &#8220;Protector of Islam&#8221;.  One hundred thousand (100,000) Bosnian Muslims join the Nazi ranks. They seek Nazi approval to establish autonomous Nazi protectorate for Bosnian Muslims.

Amin Al-Husseini approves the Pejani Plan, calling for the extermination of the Serbian population. Nazi Germany refuses to implement the Pejani plan.  

 Bosnian ethnic cleansing under Amin al Husseini:
     . Orthodox Christian Serbs:  200,000 killed
     . Jewish Bosnians: 22,000 killed
     . Gypsies:    over 40,000 killed

1942: Amin Al-Husseini intervenes personally with Nazi High Command to block Red Cross offer of exchanging 10,000 Jewish children for Nazi prisoners of war.  They will die in Hitler&#8217;s gas chambers.

1943: Mufti becomes close friend of  Heinrich Himmler, Head of SS (Nazi Officers).  Amin Al-Husseini is given a private tour of Aushwitz death camp by Himmler[xxxiii], where he insists on seeing first-hand the murder of Europe&#8217;s Jews.

Nice Guy, eh?  LOL


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Jos said:


> > The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
> > Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
> > Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
> > Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it
> ...


If there was tax on brains you'd get a rebate.  
IRS


----------



## Jos (Feb 20, 2013)

If there was tax on brains you would not be taxed at all


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Jos said:


> If there was tax on brains you would not be taxed at all


Well, that would still be better than you, dumbass!  Ha ha ha.  

Great example of the "intellect" that goes into being a rabid Palestinian supporter.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 20, 2013)

Roudy    I am STILL   waiting for  saigon to explain to me just who were the 
"ARABS"  living in jerusalem -----in the stone age.    a bit about them.....
their language,   what they called themselves ------their concepts of their 
origin or their "founding myths"    etc     ANYTHING ----even a hint about 
their cuisine and by what criteria were they "arabs"?     I wonder if they 
worshipped the meteor in  mecca as did the pre islamic arabs ----uhm  ----back 
'home'  in arabia ?


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > As it happens, that's not collaboration or anywhere even close to collaboration on the same level that the Mufti declared himself a Nazi and created armies to fight side by side with the Nazis. Only a fucking idiot would make such a comparison.
> ...


There are two definitions with collaborate, one which does not apply to what the Jews did in order to save lives.  The first one is when you "work with" or "cooperate" usually with an "enemy nation" to reach some kind of agreement or compromise, which is what the Jews and many nations that fought with the Nazis did, including the US and England. 

The second, is what the Arab Mufti and Muslims in general did, as in JOIN, FIGHT SIDE BY SIDE WITH, ASSIST,  AND ABET the Nazis.

Obviously there is a huge difference between the two, and despite your futile efforts they are not comparable, or anywhere close to it.  Good job displaying the stupid irrational mindset of a Islamist lover though.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 20, 2013)

Roudy-----do not be distressed     semantics and emotionally
 charged words and fraudulent use thereof is the bread and butter of GENOCIDAL FILTH  ----they struggle --using any means ----
including the most obscene to create libels-----because LIBELS   
underlie ever   genocide, pogrom and lynching ----their 
only joy         of course the term  COLLABORATION  has
all sorts of shades of meanings------and useful in OBSCENE INUENDO
t is those kinds of terms that  islamo nazi pigs NEED IN SUPPORT OF THEIR FILTH.   Notice the word  ABDUCTION    as used by the islamo nazi dogs and sluts on this board.    The arrest of  so called "palestinians' in the act of  violent attack is called "abduction" 
 ---whereas the across the border grabbing of an Israeli soldier 
who was standing around doing virtually nothing  in a time of 
NO ONGOING VIOLENCE is termed  ----in the mosques   
"CAPTURE OF AN ENEMY COMBATANT"    
 Islamo nazi pigs indict themselves with the filth of their 
very own mouths and keyboards and the shit they mumble 
and call  "SALAT"


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Roudy    I am STILL   waiting for  saigon to explain to me just who were the
> "ARABS"  living in jerusalem -----in the stone age.    a bit about them.....
> their language,   what they called themselves ------their concepts of their
> origin or their "founding myths"    etc     ANYTHING ----even a hint about
> ...


Don't hold your breath irose.  He'll come back at you with more of his irrelevant bullshit.  If you think about it, Jerusalem might even belong to the Missing Link in the Hominids that scientists keep talking about.  

However I don't think Saigooooon has fully evolved into the Homo Erectus or Homo Neanderthalensis yet.  From the way he posts, I am pretty sure he's still a little half ape. LOL 

Saigooooon on a 'puter: "Arabs go back to the Bronze Age in Jerusalem!" And "Jews collaborated with the Nazis!" and "me no lie, you lie!":


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Roudy-----do not be distressed     semantics and emotionally
> charged words and fraudulent use thereof is the bread and butter of GENOCIDAL FILTH  ----they struggle --using any means ----
> including the most obscene to create libels-----because LIBELS
> underlie ever   genocide, pogrom and lynching ----their
> ...


He is quite entertaining though...I have to admit.  It's funny watching someone so ignorant yet with such an inflated ego eat his underwear while you make a fool of him.  LOL


----------



## pbel (Feb 20, 2013)

Roudy said:


> *Myths and facts about Jerusalem and Temple Mount*
> 
> 1) The Islamic claim to the Temple Mount is very recent - Jerusalem's role as "The Third Holiest Site in Islam" in mainstream Islamic writings does not precede the 1930s. It was created by the grand mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> ...



Did you know that the Roman Puppet, Herod the Great who built the second Temple with Roman Taxes and engineering was not a Jew? He coverted to Judaism. Besides, the Muslims built that Mosque on empty land, they did not tear down the Temple. And did you know that before the Hebrews killed all the Cannanites, a Temple to Baal stood there?

Many religions who succeed another build their holy places on top of the previous inhabitants.


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 20, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Roudy    I am STILL   waiting for  saigon to explain to me just who were the
> "ARABS"  living in jerusalem -----in the stone age.    a bit about them.....
> their language,   what they called themselves ------their concepts of their
> origin or their "founding myths"    etc     ANYTHING ----even a hint about
> ...


I'm more into the theory, IRosie, that we all came out of Africa.  People can send in samples of their DNA to confirm this.  No doubt some of these people migrated to the Arabian Peninsula and then were eventually called Arabs.  Eventually these Arabs left the Peninsula and invaded the surrounding countries.

Skulls confirm we're all out of Africa | Reuters


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 20, 2013)

pbel said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > *Myths and facts about Jerusalem and Temple Mount*
> ...


Well sir, when the Sons of Manesseh tear down that pigsty to build the Third Temple, we'll find out what's under the foundation,won't we?


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 20, 2013)

pbel said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > *Myths and facts about Jerusalem and Temple Mount*
> ...


I certainly would like to be around if  Phillip told some Hindus or Buddhists this snd see the reaction on their faces.  In fact, there is a site on the Internet that Phillip, if he were interested, could find put up by a Hindu giving a list of many of the Hindu temples destroyed by the Muslims and mosques built on top of the sites.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 20, 2013)

pbel said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > *Myths and facts about Jerusalem and Temple Mount*
> ...


Islam is a hijacking and bad version of Judaism and Christianity, it did not succeed it.  Look at it's followers and the way they live, and then tell us who still lives like Medieval 7th century cavemen and who has moved on into the future.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > As it happens, that's not collaboration or anywhere even close to collaboration on the same level that the Mufti declared himself a Nazi and created armies to fight side by side with the Nazis. Only a fucking idiot would make such a comparison.
> ...





> There are two definitions with collaborate



No, there are not two definitions. If there were, you would have posted definitions. 

Not only have you have claimed that Raul Hillberg is a "fucking idiot", and that Hannah Arendt is a "fucking idiot" -* you have also been caught in your 5th lie on this one thread. *

Even by your standards - isn't this getting a bit silly?

*How do you think sensible Jewish and Israeli people feel when they see you spreading lies here day afte day, and doing EXACTLY what Nazis like Holston need and want you to do?*

In short - why are you enabling an empowering Fascism?


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > > Actually there were THREE MOSQUES in Mecca in 632, you fucking lying MORON.
> ...



This was definitely one of Roudy's Ten Stupidest Gaffe's - and that is a very long list!!


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Roudy    I am STILL   waiting for  saigon to explain to me just who were the Arabs
> ?



No, you are not waiting for me to explain. If you were, you'd have seen the explanation. You are refusing to listen.

You know perfectly well that you will swallow whatever shit Roudy tells you, because you lack the balls, the honesty or the intelligence to ask yourself why he posts things both he and you know to be false. 

Read back through the thread, and a very clear explanaition was given - you will ignore it.


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


Pompous ass thou art.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

Hossfly - 

Anti-Semitism will only disapear from this board when people lke you start standing up to people like Roudy.


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Hossfly -
> 
> Anti-Semitism will only disapear from this board when people lke you start standing up to people like Roudy.


Roudy's my homeboy, sugah.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 20, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly -
> ...



No, he's more like the guy who costs you your home. 

If you think what the Israeli people need is someone to lie about their history and discredit their historians - I can't agree with you. 

Gullibility is not your friend.


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 20, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


I'll take that chance. It's a sure bet.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy    I am STILL   waiting for  saigon to explain to me just who were the Arabs
> ...


Geezus what a WHINER!  I'm no proctologist, but I know an asshole when I see one.  And I'm going to stop calling you an idiot, it's beginning to insult all the stupid people out there.  

Someone up there must have a sense of humor because YOU ARE A JOKE.  LOL


----------



## Jos (Feb 21, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > If there was tax on brains you would not be taxed at all
> ...



A Rebate comes from money you have already paid in


----------



## Saigon (Feb 21, 2013)

Roudy - 

Having a sense of humour and finding your deliberate attempts to distort and undermine Israeli history funny are two different things. 

Catching you out in no less than five lies on one single thread is funny. Your inevitable hate-filled meltdowns when trapped are hilarious.

Your inability to be honest or to admit error is tragic.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 21, 2013)

saigon   >>>  "LIES  LIES   LIES"  ----
                      ok   what 'lies"    Saigon?--
                      saigon     -"how should I know"?


----------



## Saigon (Feb 21, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> saigon   >>>  "LIES  LIES   LIES"  ----ok   what 'lies"    Saigon---"how should I know"?



Check Roudy's "facts" with some reasonable, mainstream source. 

It took me about 10 seconds on google to prove that he was lying about Al Aqsa not have been important to Muslims before the 1930's. 

There must have been 20 sources like encyclopedias and general history book which explain the real history, so you can ignore any kind of blog or political site of any persuasion. 

If you check JEWISH historians like Raul Hilberg and Hannah Arendt you'll see he was lying about the collaboration between Nazis and Hungarian Jews. Why would you believe Roudy and not two of the most highly regarded Jewish historians of all time?


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 21, 2013)

I have read all your sources.     Your are an idiot.         
of course jews NEGOTIATED WITH SHIT LIKE YOU---
    cops negotiate with the mafia too.      MOST nations of the world 
       are extinct----NEGOTIATION   with   shit like you is how jews survived 
           shit like you     
Jews continue to talk to shit---it is the basis of jewish HUMOR<<<  make a deal 
with a lump or shit------then come home and laugh about it


----------



## Jos (Feb 21, 2013)

IRoudie91, Taking codeine will make you constipated and grumpy


----------



## theliq (Feb 21, 2013)

Jroc said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Jerusalem  is  important to muslims in the same way   NEW YORK and the  WORLD TRADE CENTER   is important to muslims-----important target of conquest.    When Muhummad was
> ...



Who knows Jroc,we could all be Muslims in a thousand years,stranger things have happened,you only have to look at the UK to see how things have changed so rapidly in the past 40 years.......

what I find hard to comprehend is the Muslim population in the UK is around 4.6% yet the number of mosques is amazing.......

in 1972 there were 266,000 Muslims in the UK with 30 Mosques.....by 2010 there were 2,869,000 Muslims in the UK with 1500 Mosques.....there must be well over 3,000,000 today .steve......anyhow you and I won't be around to witness it all.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 21, 2013)

Rosie - 

Is there an adult at home who can read and write help you with your posting?

Let me guve you a clue - in WWII, Nazis and Jews were NOT in the same side. Hence, you implying that Jewish hisorians were Nazis makes no more sense than any if your other posts.


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 21, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> I have read all your sources.     Your are an idiot.
> of course jews NEGOTIATED WITH SHIT LIKE YOU---
> cops negotiate with the mafia too.      MOST nations of the world
> are extinct----NEGOTIATION   with   shit like you is how jews survived
> ...



You're so pathetic and abnormal.


----------



## pbel (Feb 21, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



FEAR the IDIOT! If that ever happens 400 million Arabs with clubs will overrun Israel and club her to death...


----------



## theliq (Feb 21, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > I have read all your sources.     Your are an idiot.
> ...



Hi Because,there is something very Sad when a person degenerates mentally like poor Rosie has above.

I as a human feel that I should reach out to Rosie,what do you reckon BIK,could it be one step beyond !!!!!?????????steve


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 21, 2013)

pbel said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > pbel said:
> ...



Housefly doesn't follow things, he doesn't know of a Rabbi who died a few years ago and spelled out the Messiah, in which some people said was Jesus in Hebrew and he said he will come shortly after Ariel Sharon dies. Sharon is still being kept alive. But this housefly guy doesn't even know that Jewish scholars in israel are closely following Islamic prophecies regarding some things. Like the one were a battle in the Holy Land will take place and in Arabic it says it will be face to face fighting with light weapons, and in Arabic it says there will be this certain tree. Turns out this tree is built at every household.


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 21, 2013)

theliq said:


> BecauseIKnow said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



Do you think it's intentional or it's a mental state? .....

Reach out it is.....


----------



## sealadaigh (Feb 21, 2013)

theliq said:


> BecauseIKnow said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



i have and do actually look for a reason to say something nice to her, but have only been able to do so once in all my time here.


----------



## theliq (Feb 21, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > BecauseIKnow said:
> ...



Methinks it is mental and for that reason I shall reach out.steve


----------



## theliq (Feb 21, 2013)

reabhloideach said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > becauseiknow said:
> ...



:d


----------



## sealadaigh (Feb 21, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > BecauseIKnow said:
> ...



maybe ask her to tell us her story, or better, challange her to tell us her story without all the slurs and hatred. i mean, all those "foul mouthed, slutty catholic school girls" could just become "catholic school girls."


----------



## sealadaigh (Feb 21, 2013)

theliq said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



yeah...i have to try harder. there is a pattern to her posts.

her own peeps really should be the ones to jump in...those other than roudy...now there'd a good influence for you...LOL.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 21, 2013)

the very best arguements that  Liq and Deach have against 
the clear and factual refutation of their absurd revisionist 
histories is -----    "YOU ARE CRAZY"   as a response to those 
who successfully refute their silly statements


----------



## Saigon (Feb 21, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> the very best arguements that  Liq and Deach have against
> the clear and factual refutation of their absurd revisionist
> histories is -----    "YOU ARE CRAZY"   as a response to those
> who successfully refute their silly statements



And this has nothing to do with you apparently confusing Jews with Nazis on one of your recent meltdowns, I suppose.

How could anyone read that stuff and NOT think you were crazy?


----------



## Roudy (Feb 21, 2013)

Jos said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Jos said:
> ...


Yeah?  Do your bosses pay your taxes in your payroll check for your toilet cleaning services?  I heard you sued them once because the toilet seat hit you on your head as you were drinking from it.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> Having a sense of humour and finding your deliberate attempts to distort and undermine Israeli history funny are two different things.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry you may have mistaken me with someone who gives a shit about arguing with a person who displays signs of mental retardation.  All you have done is whine and complain about so called lies, while LYING YOURSELF.  I Noticed its the usual scumbags and Jew haters are the only ones that come to your defense.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 21, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> saigon   >>>  "LIES  LIES   LIES"  ----
> ok   what 'lies"    Saigon?--
> saigon     -"how should I know"?


He's like a fucking retarded parrot.

LIES! SQUAWK! LIES! SQUAWK! 
Saigoooon wanna cracka?  Ha ha ha.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 21, 2013)

reabhloideach said:


> BecauseIKnow said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...


Dontcha love it when Nazi asswipe Squeal becomes the "morality police"?  Ha ha ha.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 21, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> I have read all your sources.     Your are an idiot.
> of course jews NEGOTIATED WITH SHIT LIKE YOU---
> cops negotiate with the mafia too.      MOST nations of the world
> are extinct----NEGOTIATION   with   shit like you is how jews survived
> ...


Well said rosie, although I didn't like the part where you insulted shit by comparing it to Saigooooon. LOL


----------



## Roudy (Feb 21, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


Donkey boy, please keep your Islamic fantasies and masturbations about end days when the trees help the Muslims slaughter Jews to yourself.  Khara kalb. LOL.


----------



## toastman (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > the very best arguements that  Liq and Deach have against
> ...



Ask me or anyone else if we give two shits what you think of what you have to say...  

Confusing Jews with Nazis ?? LOL. I see that all the time on this board from Pro Palestinians like yourself. There is nothing more disgusting than comparing Jewish people to Nazis. By doing so, you are spitting on the graves of the millions of Jews who were slaughtered. 
Let me ask you a question. When you turn on the news, and you see ISrael is there and THRIVING on a daily basis, do you cry??? Don't be afraid to tell me, I won't say anything.


----------



## toastman (Feb 21, 2013)

Roudy said:


> BecauseIKnow said:
> 
> 
> > pbel said:
> ...



Remind him what the Koran says about Israel Roudy


----------



## Roudy (Feb 21, 2013)

toastman said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > BecauseIKnow said:
> ...


Maybe I should also remind him what the Koran says about "Palestine". NOTHING. LOL.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 21, 2013)

toastman said:


> Confusing Jews with Nazis ?? LOL. I see that all the time on this board from Pro Palestinians like yourself. There is nothing more disgusting than comparing Jewish people to Nazis. By doing so, you are spitting on the graves of the millions of Jews who were slaughtered.
> Let me ask you a question. When you turn on the news, and you see ISrael is there and THRIVING on a daily basis, do you cry??? Don't be afraid to tell me, I won't say anything.



Perhaps this is a good time to mention that I have lived in Israel, and am firmly pro-Israeli. 

It really amazes me how many posters on this board are so lost in this topic they have no idea who is on what "side"

However - you still have some way to go to beat Rosie calling Jewish historians Raul Hillberg and Hannah Arendt "Nazis" Even Roudy only called them "fucking liars".


----------



## toastman (Feb 21, 2013)

Roudy said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Really???? Well then you obviously haven't read the Koran that I did Roudy ! Go to your local library, and in the fairytale section, you will find a copy of the Islamo Nazi Koran. Lots of mention of Palestine there  
Then of course, there's the actual Koran hahahaha


----------



## toastman (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Confusing Jews with Nazis ?? LOL. I see that all the time on this board from Pro Palestinians like yourself. There is nothing more disgusting than comparing Jewish people to Nazis. By doing so, you are spitting on the graves of the millions of Jews who were slaughtered.
> ...



Ummm, not sure if serious....


----------



## Saigon (Feb 21, 2013)

toastman said:


> Ummm, not sure if serious....



Totally serious - I lived just east of Qiryat Shemonah and am happy to post pictures of myself there.

I also studied Middle Eastern History in Israel, in Hadera.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Confusing Jews with Nazis ?? LOL. I see that all the time on this board from Pro Palestinians like yourself. There is nothing more disgusting than comparing Jewish people to Nazis. By doing so, you are spitting on the graves of the millions of Jews who were slaughtered.
> ...


And that has exactly WHAT do with anything?  Most Jews have been to Israel, many times.  

Keep talking, shithead, someday you'll say something intelligent.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 21, 2013)

Toastman - 

The main problem I found in Israel with the Palestinian issues is that both sides tend to portray themselves as innocent, and as victims. Both sides complain about how the other side attack them - while attacking the other side and saying they had no choice. After a year in Israel I began to get tired of both sides exaggerating and sometimes simply lying about simple historical facts. 

What I figured is that the conflict can end only when Palestinans are ready to describe what they do as terror, and to stop asking for Israel to disappear, for instance. Both sides need to be honest about history, and accept fact as fact. 

What bugs me about people like Roudy and Rosie is that they are stuck in a mindset of brainless racism; in which any lie is acceptable and fine providing it is about Arabs. They are then the first to whine about anti-Semitic posters - at least one of whom sites Roudy as a reason to post here.

Roudy and Rosie don't live in Israel - but they have no problem playing their part if ensuring the conflict continune. They are not the people who pay the price for their hatred and racism - ordinary Israeli people are the ones who actually face the wrath of Palestinians on a daily basis. When I read some of Roudy's posts - well, I'd say I understand where some of that pathological Palestinian hatred and racism comes from.


----------



## toastman (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Ummm, not sure if serious....
> ...



Well I'm not doubting that you lived and studied there, but the posts I've read from you don't really show that you are Pro Israeli. Could be I'm confusing you with someone else, my bad


----------



## Saigon (Feb 21, 2013)

toastman said:


> Well I'm not doubting that you lived and studied there, but the posts I've read from you don't really show that you are Pro Israeli. Could be I'm confusing you with someone else, my bad



No problem - it happens. 

Roudy tends to assume anyone interested in actual facts must be a sabre-brandishing member of the Taliban, but the truth is not usually quite so colourful.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 21, 2013)

for the record    saigon is calling jebusites  "arabs"    In fact jebusites 
like  amorites and edomites and dozens of other ancent nations in the 
area later called palestine----are extinct.     Humans being humans---there 
is no question that there is admixture of human DNA   stemming from 
the jebusites in the "gene pool"   over there----but nations being nations---
some become extinct     It is not clear when the jebusites 
disappeared entirely as a nation-----but they are not there anymore.   
Interestingly enough---based on no evidence whatsoever---some arab 
muslims have decide to be  "DESCENDED FROM JEBUSITES"   who,  like 
Adam and Noah and Jesus ----were MUSLIMS


----------



## toastman (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Toastman -
> 
> The main problem I found in Israel with the Palestinian issues is that both sides tend to portray themselves as innocent, and as victims. Both sides complain about how the other side attack them - while attacking the other side and saying they had no choice. After a year in Israel I began to get tired of both sides exaggerating and sometimes simply lying about simple historical facts.
> 
> ...



I respectfully disagree with your last statement. I believe that Palestinians hatred for Jews and Israelis comes from immense propaganda spewed into the minds of Palestinians combined with the teaching of and bringing up of young Palestinian kids to teach their kids and their kids to despise Israelis. I see it as a poisoned generation. I'm not saying all Palestinians feel this way, but in my opinion, most of them do, and until their parents teach their kids that Israel is a state and Jews are a people who do want peace, then I don't see this conflict being resolved. Just my opinion


----------



## Saigon (Feb 21, 2013)

toastman said:


> I respectfully disagree with your last statement. I believe that Palestinians hatred for Jews and Israelis comes from immense propaganda spewed into the minds of Palestinians combined with the teaching of and bringing up of young Palestinian kids to teach their kids and their kids to despise Israelis. I see it as a poisoned generation. I'm not saying all Palestinians feel this way, but in my opinion, most of them do, and until their parents teach their kids that Israel is a state and Jews are a people who do want peace, then I don't see this conflict being resolved. Just my opinion



Certainly a lot of Palestinians hate. 

I've met a lot of Palestinians who I thought were great people and good parents and who only want peace, but I couldn't say if they are really a majority. I'd call it about 50/50 based on people I've met and research that I've read, but I don't disagree with your comment about a posioned generation. 

The problem is that some of that anger is justified. I don't condone or accept violence in any way shape or form or against anyone at all, but I totally understand Palestinian anger at they way they are treated. 

Having lived with the thread of violence I of course think Israel must defend itself, but to my mind they have completely gone the wrong direction since about 1980 and the Lebanon War. There, for the first time, Israel went from defending to attacking - and in doing so they lost their moral footing. They became what they claim to despise. 

I still believe peace is possible, but it is now a conflict between an adult, mature nation and a child, a disheartened group of Palestinians. It is up to Israel to essentially accept victory, and make an honorable peace. Instead, too many Israelis simply want to crush the Palestinians into dust.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 21, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> for the record    saigon is calling jebusites  "arabs"    In fact jebusites



People who live in Akko and Jericho and Nablus today can establish using genetics, that they are unequivocally related to the people who lived in those towns 3,000 years ago. 

The names are irrelevent - where are the Prussians, the Genoans, the Venetians or the Piedmontese today? 

They became known as Germans and Italians - still the same people on the same land.


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 21, 2013)

Messiah mystery follows death of mystical rabbi

When Rabbi Yitzchak Kaduri died in February 2006, somewhere between the age of 106 to possibly 117, 300,000 attended his funeral in Jerusalem.

The Baghdad-born kabbalist had gained notoriety around the world for issuing apocalyptic warnings and for saying he personally met the long-awaited Jewish Messiah in November 2003.

Before Kaduri died, he reportedly wrote the name of the Messiah on a small note, requesting it remained sealed for one year after his death. The note revealed the name of the Messiah as &#8220;Yehoshua&#8221; or &#8220;Yeshua&#8221; &#8211; or the Hebrew name Jesus.

A few months before his death, Kaduri gave a Yom Kippur address in which he gave clues as to how to recognize the Messiah. He told those gathered for the Day of Atonement in his synagogue the Messiah would not come until former Prime Minister Ariel Sharon dies.


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > I respectfully disagree with your last statement. I believe that Palestinians hatred for Jews and Israelis comes from immense propaganda spewed into the minds of Palestinians combined with the teaching of and bringing up of young Palestinian kids to teach their kids and their kids to despise Israelis. I see it as a poisoned generation. I'm not saying all Palestinians feel this way, but in my opinion, most of them do, and until their parents teach their kids that Israel is a state and Jews are a people who do want peace, then I don't see this conflict being resolved. Just my opinion
> ...



Exactly. And TM makes it sound as if things come out of the blue. He thinks Palestinians are stupid enough to believe they caused their own problems rather than Israel. What he doesn't mention is how people in Israel are taught to believe everyone hates them for being Jews, etc..So when ever a resolution is called upon, or a solution, they literally believe it's a result of Jew hatred and ignore everything.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 21, 2013)

BIK - 

It certainly happens on this board that a couple of posters (and only a couple) respond to any criticism of Israel's policies as being anti-Semitic, which personally I fund hugely offensive. 

Most criticism of Barrack Obama is NOT racist - likewise most criticism ot Israel is NOT anti-Semitic.

It's become a blind knee-jerk reaction, and one I think used mainly by American Jews who aren't always as aware of the issues as Israeli's are.


----------



## toastman (Feb 21, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...




Remember, this guy was a Hamas suicide bomber. Hamas, represents the Palestinians in Gaza, no ?


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 21, 2013)

What'd you expect from Hamas during the intifada? Tell me how many Palestinians were killed during that period. 

Hamas are just like resistance group but they are strong in their message and determined. You will never find jews like Hamas who stood up for their land. In the occupied territories.

But typical response, show the guy that looks like a pyscho who bombed Israel back in 2003 or whatever date. But not the average people fighting for independence in the Gaza Strip at the time. Who attacked military targets btw.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 21, 2013)

Toastman - 



> Remember, this guy was a Hamas suicide bomber. Hamas, represents the Palestinians in Gaza, no ?



Well, the Taliban "represented" the people of Afghanistan for some time, and yet every Afghan person I met hates their guts. We can't assume all Gazans support Hamas. 

That said, Hamas are genuinely popular because they do a lot of welfare work - providing schooling, healthcare where no other exists. They do some good work, I believe - although that doesn't justify their terrorist activities. 

But Hamas is also popular because Israel seems to be intractable, disinterested and oppressive. Israel needs t play a hearts and minds game.


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 21, 2013)

A lot of people don't like Hamas as a government when I went to the Gaza Strip almost everyone I saw was complaining, but they were mostly people who liked their economic flexibility back then when they could travel to the West Bank and trade. That's not Hamas's fault though. But they are liked because they fight back against mass murderers.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 21, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> A lot of people don't like Hamas as a government when I went to the Gaza Strip almost everyone I saw was complaining, but they were mostly people who liked their economic flexibility back then when they could travel to the West Bank and trade. That's not Hamas's fault though. But they are liked because they fight back against mass murderers.



they like Hamas for the same reason so many germans liked  adolf abu ali----
   both rendered theft and pillage and rape   LEGAL     ie they both advocated 
   emulating  AL NABI    

   It is actually true that lots of people would join the mafia given the 
   chance----but mafia accepts ONLY Italians-----and most Italians don't 
   want it-----convicts want it ----so they convert to islam in jail instead 
   ------HOLY RAPE AND PILLAGE AND MURDER     like   JANNAH ON 
   EARTH


----------



## Lipush (Feb 21, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> A lot of people don't like Hamas as a government when I went to the Gaza Strip almost everyone I saw was complaining, but they were mostly people who liked their economic flexibility back then when they could travel to the West Bank and trade. That's not Hamas's fault though. _*But they are liked because they fight back against mass murderers.*_



Just the reason why we like and cherish the IDF


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Toastman -
> 
> The main problem I found in Israel with the Palestinian issues is that both sides tend to portray themselves as innocent, and as victims. Both sides complain about how the other side attack them - while attacking the other side and saying they had no choice. After a year in Israel I began to get tired of both sides exaggerating and sometimes simply lying about simple historical facts.
> 
> ...


You speak Turnspeak fluenty.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> BIK -
> 
> It certainly happens on this board that a couple of posters (and only a couple) respond to any criticism of Israel's policies as being anti-Semitic, which personally I fund hugely offensive.
> 
> ...



 I grew up in the USA----my parents were born in the USA     my grandmothers---
   england and the USA -----I did not grow up learning that people hate jews---
   except for some nasty  "christ-killer"  comments from little catholic school girls---but 
    they hated blacks too-----and protestants for some reason related to  "MARY"--
    I did not know any Israelis until I grew up--but LONG BEFORE THAT 
    I learned about  who hates jews because I ran into muslims----NOT FROM THE 
    MIDDLE EAST     I ran into some muslims who never met a jew until meeting me--
    and even then took me for christian       The news is----the reason palestinians 
    do not like jews is because muslims are taught to hate jews from infancy

    my husband is israeli----he was born in a VERY MUSLIM COUNTRY---classic 
    shariah-------the things that happened to his family happened there LONG 
    BEFORE  1948--in fact LONG BEFORE 1897 -done by people who likely 
    never heard of "zionism" ---but  they knew    ITBACH AL YAHUD

    You have to be as unconscious to claim that the issue between jews and 
    muslims is   "ISRAEL"  and refugees  as you would to claim that the issue 
    between muslims and hindus is based on KASHMIR


----------



## Annika55 (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> BecauseIKnow said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...



Well, Saigon, you did post "stone age," NOT bronze age, *in your post 15:
"Firstly, Roudy avoids mentioning that Arab people lived in this area since the Stone Age
Secondly, he skips around the fact that there were no mosques anywhere on earth until around 622 - so why there should have been on in Jerusalem in 635 I have no idea. The great mosque in Mecca wasn't built then either - but Roudy forgot to mention that! Some of the most important mosques in the world (e.g. al Ummayyad, Damacus) are significantly younger than Al Aqsa."
--------
Ignoring everything else Roudy has posted, his MAIN point in this thread, which you seem to be ignoring, *is that Mohammed could NOT have taken his night journey to the "farthest mosqe" in Jerusalem at time of his death as there was NO mosque in Jerusalem when he died. You (Saigon) have agreed with this basic assertion. It is completely irrelevant whether or not there were other mosques elsewhere at this time. *If Jerusalem is significant to Muslims *because of Mohammed's ascension from the Jerusalem mosque, and that mosque did not exist at his death, then it would be logical to conclude that the Jerusalem mosque could NOT be "the farthest mosque" in the Koranic*
account.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 21, 2013)

> I ran into some muslims who never met a jew until meeting me--



Well that explains the hatred of Muslims in your part of town, certainly!

It's such a shame - I would always hope any Muslims first impression with a Jew would be with someone friendly, tolerance, balanced and polite.


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 21, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > BIK -
> ...



Still writing fairytales?......


----------



## Saigon (Feb 21, 2013)

Annika - 

Do you believe the Gardens of Gethsemane a real place? Can you point them out on a map?

Neither the Koran nor the Bible can be read today as literal. Things get lost in translation, places change and things get moved about. What we are left with is faith and belief - and I respect those. 

What we know is that Mohammed revered Jerusalem and considered the site of the al Aqsa mosque sacred, much as Christians consider Jerusalem sacred because places like the Garden of Gethsemane are there. Somewhere. 

Roudy lies about this because he is all about inciting racial hatred and distorting the history. More fool you if you don't check the facts for yourself. I've never believed anyone did Israel a service by undermining her history or attacking her historians - I hope you don't either.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > I ran into some muslims who never met a jew until meeting me--
> 
> 
> 
> ...



gee you are stupid----at THAT TIME  the wasps in my town would have never 
tolerated muslims       In fact the first  PAKISTANI family moved in long 
after I LEFT HOME_-------and my mom had to rescue one of the kids from 
a group of little nazis who were throwing rocks at him -----

Because of my background in  NAZI VILLE-----I was very very protective of 
those FOREIGNERS       I was their friend in that somewhat 
provincial part of the world    ----------        that is why I got invited 
to both mosques and hindu festival things.   On the other hand---that is 
why all groups from all backgrounds SPOKE TO ME SO CANDIDLY.

It is EASIEST for a young girl as I was back then----but the way to know 
what a muslim in the USA thinks of jews     YOU BE A CHRISTIAN----

If you are very interested in knowing what muslims think of HINDUS---
be a jew-----that way you get the    "IDOL"  libels   (i am referring to 
muslims from southeast asia-----including INDIA and also some from 
parts of africa----like kenya where there are both muslim and hindu 
transferees from southeast asia)

If you are interested in knowing what muslims think of christians---
   BE A JEW 

     I never tried to fake anything except being a christian and that did not 
     take trying------it was ASSUMED ---before I had a chance to comment--


----------



## Roudy (Feb 21, 2013)

Annika55 said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > BecauseIKnow said:
> ...


Whoops! Now watch him avoid your post, Annika!  Welcome, teach!  Ha ha ha.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 21, 2013)

Roudy - 

I've already answered Annikia's post.


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> I've already answered Annikia's post.


After she ate your lunch?


----------



## toastman (Feb 21, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> What'd you expect from Hamas during the intifada? Tell me how many Palestinians were killed during that period.
> 
> Hamas are just like resistance group but they are strong in their message and determined. You will never find jews like Hamas who stood up for their land. In the occupied territories.
> 
> But typical response, show the guy that looks like a pyscho who bombed Israel back in 2003 or whatever date. But not the average people fighting for independence in the Gaza Strip at the time. Who attacked military targets btw.



Won't find Jews who stand up for their land ? When Israel declared its statehood, they were attacked by four arab ARMIES. Israel did not have an army, but 'militia' groups which resisted these attacks. Resisted attacks of actual ARMIES . I'd say that's standing up for your land. Then theres the other wars in which many soldiers lost their lives.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 21, 2013)

Hossfly - 

Can you try and limit the braindead spamming?

I know you are too afraid to actually discuss topics - but perhas sometimes scroll past so that others can discuss them?


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 21, 2013)

when did Hossfly  "SPAM"???


----------



## Roudy (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Annika -
> 
> Do you believe the Gardens of Gethsemane a real place? Can you point them out on a map?
> 
> ...


Eh, you just got called for lying by three separate posters and now you're running around like a chicken with your head cut off. 

Look scumbag, we all saw what you did. Not only are you a liar but you also compared the actions of the Nazi Mufti of Jerusalem who fought for the Nazis and directly caused the death of about 400,000 Jews by lobbying Hitler to send them to the gas Chambers, to that of a Jew negotiating with the Nazis trying to save Jews from being sent to their death. 

Piece of shit.  LOL


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Annika -
> 
> Do you believe the Gardens of Gethsemane a real place? Can you point them out on a map?
> 
> ...


I get it now. He revered Jerusalem, though he had never been there. That's like me revering the Blarney Stone and I've never kissed it. I kissed it in a dream after Scotty beamed me there. Yes.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> I've already answered Annikia's post.


Ha ha ha.  And you made even more of a fool of yourself!  You don't know the difference between the Stone Age and the Bronze age?  And then you lied about it. Eat shit scumbag.

Do you ever wonder what life would be like if you'd had enough oxygen at birth?


----------



## Saigon (Feb 21, 2013)

I'll return to the thread when and if something on topic is posted.

btw. Roudy - I am not you. I don't lie, and don't need to.

btw. I did say 'Stone Age' and 'Bronze Age'. Take your pic - I stand by both.


----------



## toastman (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon , I appreciate that you respond to my posts with respect, but you appear to be in some sort of denial. You are trying to portray the Palestinians as some peaceful people, but I fail to see what they have offered for peace


----------



## toastman (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> I'll return to the thread when and if something on topic is posted.
> 
> btw. Roudy - I am not you. I don't lie, and don't need to.



So you really compared Israel to the Nazi regime ??!!


----------



## Roudy (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> I'll return to the thread when and if something on topic is posted.
> 
> btw. Roudy - I am not you. I don't lie, and don't need to.


Translation: ""I got my ass kicked enough for now, my bullshit has ceased to work...I have been exposed for the lying scumbag that I am...whine...sniff..moan...that Roudy...waaaaa!"


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Hossfly -
> 
> Can you try and limit the braindead spamming?
> 
> I know you are too afraid to actually discuss topics - but perhas sometimes scroll past so that others can discuss them?


There's absolutely nothing to discuss when you advance suppositions, theories and fiction. Get a life; present *facts.*


----------



## Saigon (Feb 21, 2013)

toastman said:


> Saigon , I appreciate that you respond to my posts with respect, but you appear to be in some sort of denial. You are trying to portray the Palestinians as some peaceful people, but I fail to see what they have offered for peace



Well, to be fair here - I have spent one hell of a lot more time around Palestinian people than most people have. I've covered stories in Amman, Salt, Beirut and Damascus during recent years, and in each case often spent time hanging out with Palestinians. So for 'denial', try 'experience'.

I wouldn't say they are a peaceful people. 

But I would say that much of their anger is situation-based. Change the situation, and a lot of the anger will ease. It will take some time, though.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 21, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly -
> ...



Ha! Delightful posting, Hoss!

OK then - it is A FACT that Al Aqsa mosque has been sacred to Muslims for two millenia. 

It is A FACT that Roudy lied about this.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 21, 2013)

toastman said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > I'll return to the thread when and if something on topic is posted.
> ...



Um...no. I didn't. Obviously. 

I think what you are referring to is Rosie attacking Jewish historians Hilberg and Arendt as being 'Nazis'. Roudy called them 'fucking liars', because both confirmed Kasztner's collaboration with German forces in Budapest ca. 1942.


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Hossfly -
> 
> Can you try and limit the braindead spamming?
> 
> I know you are too afraid to actually discuss topics - but perhas sometimes scroll past so that others can discuss them?


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98DMPOC-dUQ&feature=player_detailpage]Indivisible Jerusalem - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Lipush (Feb 21, 2013)

If I forget thee, O Jerusalem! let my right hand be forgotten!


----------



## toastman (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...



Oh, alright then lol.....


----------



## Saigon (Feb 21, 2013)

Lipush said:


> If I forget thee, O Jerusalem! let my right hand be forgotten!








It is still the most beautiful city in the world, amd never better than at dawn, in summer, a little after the first call to prayer....


----------



## Lipush (Feb 21, 2013)

I'd like to see this better-


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 21, 2013)

^^^

Future Israeli generations keep coming up with nuttier and nuttier ideas......


----------



## Lipush (Feb 21, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> ^^^
> 
> Future Israeli generations keep coming up with nuttier and nuttier ideas......



Ohhhh BIK, lol. nothing "Israeli" there. The wish to see the Third Temple being rebuilt existed since your prophet was crawling.

It's 101 Judaism. which existed much before Islam or Christianity.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...



    from rosie>>>please cite the post in which you claim that I (irosie)  
       accused  Hilberg and Arendt of being nazis-----you filthy liar.  
       I have never denied the fact that jews negotiated and tried to 
       make "deals"  with your fellow nazis---to placate your filth--not 
       just during world war II     BUT FOR MILLENIA----
       Agreeing to abide by the details of the NAZI DOCUMENT OF SHIT  
       ----the PACT OF OMAR_----is a  COLLABORATION  with nazi filth 
       too.        you made no point other than the fact that you are stupid
       What you call  "COLLABORATION"   is ---in fact ----a matter of 
       "PLAYING A GAME WITH NAZI SHIT"  in order to survive until 
       the shit rots on its own to dust----and blows away   (checkmate)


----------



## MisterBeale (Feb 21, 2013)

toastman said:


> Remember, this guy was a Hamas suicide bomber. Hamas, represents the Palestinians in Gaza, no ?


How do you know this guy isn't a Mossad agent?  You sure this is the one that died?  You do know the Mossad has heavily infiltrated both Hamas and Hezbollah in order to press the Israeli state's policies, right?  He looks like an Israeli intelligence asset to me.  Is that Roudy?


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 21, 2013)

MisterBeale said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Remember, this guy was a Hamas suicide bomber. Hamas, represents the Palestinians in Gaza, no ?
> ...



no    it's me


----------



## Lipush (Feb 21, 2013)

MisterBeale said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Remember, this guy was a Hamas suicide bomber. Hamas, represents the Palestinians in Gaza, no ?
> ...


----------



## Roudy (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


I didn't call them fucking liars, I called you a fucking lying scum for comparing the actions of the Nazi Mufti to those who tried to save Jews. No insult to scum.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 21, 2013)

MisterBeale said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Remember, this guy was a Hamas suicide bomber. Hamas, represents the Palestinians in Gaza, no ?
> ...


Say what?!


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > If I forget thee, O Jerusalem! let my right hand be forgotten!
> ...



I've just come from Jerusalem.  Nothing like seeing those ancient gates that surround the Old City or praying at the Western Wall.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 21, 2013)

every time I see that LARGE YELLOW DOME -----I am reminded of the bombing of the 
giant BUDDHA STATUARY   in Afghanistan-----it had little impression on me when it was just 
an item in the news------but then I saw the footage and I felt like I was watching a  MURDER.

The dome is an atrocity     It is a CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY just as was that 
murder of buddhist art.  

last year Tunisians  destroyed  a  2500 year old synagogue together with its 
ancient  manuscripts----the structure was a lot older than  AL AQSA   and even 
older than the Buddhist art ----YET ANOTHER MURDER   (they murdered the rabbi too--
but what else is new?)

I sometimes wonder what artifacts the arabs of arabia destroyed.    Chances are 
the few actual WRITTEN RECORDS    of   their "nabi"   over there----were written 
either in hebrew or ----arabic with hebrew script--------probably all destroyed---
MURDERED         remember when some maniac took a hatchet to the  "PIETA"
  in ROME-------also like a murder

the rumor is that the iraqi muslims have defiled the tomb of  EZEKIEL    another 
murder


----------



## Annika55 (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Toastman -
> 
> The main problem I found in Israel with the Palestinian issues is that both sides tend to portray themselves as innocent, and as victims. Both sides complain about how the other side attack them - while attacking the other side and saying they had no choice. After a year in Israel I began to get tired of both sides exaggerating and sometimes simply lying about simple historical facts.
> 
> ...



You make several very reasonable points here.

I tend to "excuse" much of Rose and Roudy's offensive remarks because Rose has a husband and family who suffered greatly under Shariah law in an Islamic country. They fled and also suffered in making their escape.
I believe Roudy was born in an Islamic country and imagine he may have friends and family who also suffered as Jews in a Shariah country.
For them, the conflict is intensely personal and emotionally charged.


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 21, 2013)

Roudy suffered nothing, I'm not that naive to believe Rose. Especially when she doesn't realize Yemen was controlled by a royal family at that time of her husband. That gives them no excuse to be derogatory towards people. I'm from Gaza and experienced a drone strike also had more than a dozen cousins killed in this conflict. This conflict is emotional and personal to me. But does that give me an excuse to be derogatory towards Jews for no reason? Random off topic rants should not be excused.


----------



## Annika55 (Feb 21, 2013)

Saigon said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > I respectfully disagree with your last statement. I believe that Palestinians hatred for Jews and Israelis comes from immense propaganda spewed into the minds of Palestinians combined with the teaching of and bringing up of young Palestinian kids to teach their kids and their kids to despise Israelis. I see it as a poisoned generation. I'm not saying all Palestinians feel this way, but in my opinion, most of them do, and until their parents teach their kids that Israel is a state and Jews are a people who do want peace, then I don't see this conflict being resolved. Just my opinion
> ...



I have similar feelings about this conflict.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 21, 2013)

I actually believe that israel did accept victory and tried to do an honorable peace  WAY 
BACK  in   1967-----for a little while-------it did not take long for them to GIVE 
UP ON THE IDEA -----but it was the plan at the outset--------in june------it just did 
not last past  July 1.    and it was not  POPULAR enough with the general population 
on either side.    Ie some of the government was willing


----------



## toastman (Feb 21, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> Roudy suffered nothing, I'm not that naive to believe Rose. Especially when she doesn't realize Yemen was controlled by a royal family at that time of her husband. That gives them no excuse to be derogatory towards people. I'm from Gaza and experienced a drone strike also had more than a dozen cousins killed in this conflict. This conflict is emotional and personal to me. But does that give me an excuse to be derogatory towards Jews for no reason? Random off topic rants should not be excused.



Last time you said you only had one cousin killed....

Just saying...


----------



## Annika55 (Feb 21, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> Roudy suffered nothing, I'm not that naive to believe Rose. Especially when she doesn't realize Yemen was controlled by a royal family at that time of her husband. That gives them no excuse to be derogatory towards people. I'm from Gaza and experienced a drone strike also had more than a dozen cousins killed in this conflict. This conflict is emotional and personal to me. But does that give me an excuse to be derogatory towards Jews for no reason? Random off topic rants should not be excused.



I cannot argue that personal experiences do give posters the right to be offensive to others. I am very impressed that you are able to restrain yourself from being hateful and rude and that you distinguish between those who harmed you and your family and posters on a message board. I am feeling quite sheepish about my post. I guess the bottom line must be that EVERY poster should refrain from personal insults and ugly remarks about religions and ethnic/cultural groups. I am surprised they are tolerated on this board. Thanks for your clarification.


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 21, 2013)

toastman said:


> BecauseIKnow said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy suffered nothing, I'm not that naive to believe Rose. Especially when she doesn't realize Yemen was controlled by a royal family at that time of her husband. That gives them no excuse to be derogatory towards people. I'm from Gaza and experienced a drone strike also had more than a dozen cousins killed in this conflict. This conflict is emotional and personal to me. But does that give me an excuse to be derogatory towards Jews for no reason? Random off topic rants should not be excused.
> ...



In that certain period. That one I was speaking of was 16 years old. I lost another three and a infant also in the same time period. Before that I also lost cousins. Another one during the most recent conflict. Also my literal neighbors there were killed. Look up the Dalou family.


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 21, 2013)

Annika55 said:


> BecauseIKnow said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy suffered nothing, I'm not that naive to believe Rose. Especially when she doesn't realize Yemen was controlled by a royal family at that time of her husband. That gives them no excuse to be derogatory towards people. I'm from Gaza and experienced a drone strike also had more than a dozen cousins killed in this conflict. This conflict is emotional and personal to me. But does that give me an excuse to be derogatory towards Jews for no reason? Random off topic rants should not be excused.
> ...



I have in the past expressed anger. But I learned that it won't get you anywhere. And I just wanted to clarify its also personal for me. Glad you understood it though....


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 21, 2013)

annika    I hope you are well     and very glad to see your name ... 
   our dear   'because'  is very impressive-----hang on and you will be 
   even more impressed with his charming manner and sense of fair play

   'because'    you are not supposed to make comments about family. 
    An intersting aside------by a strange happenstance----I came into 
    contact with a man who met the King of Yemen ---way back around  1948-9
    The INTERESTING STORY??     > That king decided to allow  an airlife of jews out 
    of Yemen    BUT-----he had to sell the idea to his courtiers .    Now think hard,,,
    how could he sell such an idea------&%& <bang>     HE HAD A DREAM!!!!!!!  
    AND A HEAVENLY VOICE SAID   'time for the jews to go back"   
    I found the story very charming----the man who told it said the king at that 
    time was a  "good man"      As I recall----later on he had to deal with Russian 
    financed   rebellion and RUN UP NORTH  ----that was in the 50s when I noticed 
    news stories on the way to the comics  and LITTLE ORPHAN ANNIE    
    I am not suggesting I understood anything about international news at age nine.
    I am amazed that I remember that detail----but I now know it is correct

    As far as I know---the current turmoil in Yemen is part of that NEVER ENDING 
    CIVIL WAR


----------



## theliq (Feb 21, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> the very best arguements that  Liq and Deach have against
> the clear and factual refutation of their absurd revisionist
> histories is -----    "YOU ARE CRAZY"   as a response to those
> who successfully refute their silly statements



Revisionist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!No I leave all that shit to those Zionists that spewed that the Palestinian Land they STOLE was UNINHABITED in 1948.

Rosie buy a Dictionary


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 21, 2013)

theliq said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > the very best arguements that  Liq and Deach have against
> ...




who in 1948 said that palestine was uninhabited in  1948----you still swallowing  
Khutbah jumaat shit?


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 21, 2013)

theliq said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > the very best arguements that  Liq and Deach have against
> ...


We know that there were Arabs in the land in 1948 because they came in droves from their poor surrounding countries when they saw the Jews had jobs for them.   No doubt there are many immigrants from poorer lands who came to your country for jobs.  Can you honestly say that population is the same mix in your country as it was about 50 years ago?  I know the U.S. has changed.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 21, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...




Leave Liq alone----he is parroting the idiocy he was told to parrot----it just gets screwed 
up over time     

Truth be told----the OTTOMANS did it     In the early 1800s they decided it would be 
a good idea to sell property in Palestine to jews------

    Perhaps there are those out there who do not know----the arabs hate the 
turks for NOT IMPOSING STRICT SHARIAH     Let us not forget ---Erdogan is 
running on an ISLAMICIST PLATFORM     The turks ---never the most islamicist 
in the world----- have been almost human since ataturk instigated  "NON SHARIAH" 
reforms     Lots of the conflcit in the MIDDLE EAST is all about   a  "BACK TO THE 
FILTH OF SHARIAH"   movement.    Legal rape of kaffirin is as attractive to 
present day arabs in the middle east as it was to the ass lickers of al nabi  1400 y
years ago.    Sherri likes it too.


----------



## theliq (Feb 21, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



Silly Girl,Silly Story just like Hoss's......you both need a lot of


        Fukcing Help

                 So SAD,steve


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 21, 2013)

theliq said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



what  "silly story"  is that   Liq?      you find rape  a "silly"  subject or are you 
trying to deny the present  SHARIAH REVISIONIST movement going on in the 
world over the past 40 years. --

It is possible you support it----do not be shy ----why not say so


----------



## theliq (Feb 21, 2013)

Annika55 said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Toastman -
> ...



BULLSHIT.....Your attempt at trying to excuse the Criminals Roudy and Rosie after over 8,000.....of which there were 1500 children and infants, Palestinians have been Slaughtered by Israel/Jews since 1948....WHICH THEY REJOICE AT,AND HOPE CONTINUES.

Shame you don't have the SAME SYMPATHY FOR THE PALESTINIANS.

You are just another FCUKARD like the rest........Take your "TEND" out of your  and shove into your "EXCUSE" of a MOUTH.

I would bet their stories of repression are COMPLETE BULLSHIT.

Go away from this place,your thoughts have been noted and now reside in the nearest GARBAGE BIN.

Thanks but NO THANKS.

I am in a kind mood today Annika,that's why I have been gentle with you,for you know not what you say.


----------



## theliq (Feb 21, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



Rape is an abomination.....but Americans DO IT,Freely,but Indians DO IT,Freely,I think nearly every CULTURE DOES IT FREELY.

So your point is ???????? Who Knows????? That Americans RAPE more that Islamists OR that Islamist RAPE more than Americans.....I dunno really,I reckon Americans would be a fairly High % but maybe YOU could tell me??????????

I do not support any Rapists,I'd cut their DICKS lenght ways.

I have now said,not in a shy way what I think.......SAY NO TO RAPE Rosie,it is a tool(excuse the pun) to DEGRADE WOMEN,by DEGENERATES.....and they are everywhere.

The Magnificent One.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 21, 2013)

Annika55 said:


> I tend to "excuse" much of Rose and Roudy's offensive remarks because Rose has a husband and family who suffered greatly under Shariah law in an Islamic country. They fled and also suffered in making their escape.
> I believe Roudy was born in an Islamic country and imagine he may have friends and family who also suffered as Jews in a Shariah country.
> For them, the conflict is intensely personal and emotionally charged.



Thanks, Annika. 

Certainly when I lived in Israel a great number of my friends held fairly extreme views on the conflict, which I could understand based on the fact that we lived with the constant threat of attack. It's not easy to be generous when waiting for the next RPG to sail past.

But neither Rosie nor Roudy have any personal experience of the Palestinian conflict beyond being Jewish. 

As far as I can tell,both are poorly informed, both endlessly dishonest, and borh motivated largely by racial hatred. 

If Palestinians didn't exist - they'd have to invent them. 

I am also concerned that other Jewish and pro-Israeli posters refuse to call them on the lies and racism, presumably finding dishonesty conveniant. 

My position - any genuine supporter of Israel should stick with facts and truth. Lying only strengthens for the forces of extremism and violence.


----------



## Lipush (Feb 21, 2013)

"If Palestinians didn't exist - they'd have to invent them. "

We usually say that about us and the Palestinians the other way around.

Aint that a small worls, hua?


----------



## Saigon (Feb 21, 2013)

Rosie - 

Since you ask (in post #236) - 



irosie91 said:


> I have read all your sources.     Your are an idiot.
> of course jews NEGOTIATED WITH SHIT LIKE YOU---
> cops negotiate with the mafia too.      MOST nations of the world
> are extinct----NEGOTIATION   with   shit like you is how jews survived
> ...



My sources, which were clearly marked, were Jewish historians Raul Hilberg and Hannah Arendt.


----------



## theliq (Feb 22, 2013)

Lipush said:


> "If Palestinians didn't exist - they'd have to invent them. "
> 
> We usually say that about us and the Palestinians the other way around.
> 
> Aint that a small worls, hua?



"Children of Israel,the Future is Yours"     Yeah and everyone else is PAYING FOR IT.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 22, 2013)

Lipush said:


> "If Palestinians didn't exist - they'd have to invent them. "
> 
> We usually say that about us and the Palestinians the other way around.
> 
> Aint that a small worls, hua?



Absolutely!!

And I think there are quite a few conflicts around the world where the identity of one people if forged through opposition to another group. Hutu & Tutsi in Rwanda, Armenians & Turks, even Russians & Americans during the 1950's were never more themselves than when they were attacking the other!!

It's an unfortunate thing, but I do think peoples can also overcome that and move forward with an even stronger sense of identity.


----------



## Lipush (Feb 22, 2013)

theliq said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > "If Palestinians didn't exist - they'd have to invent them. "
> ...



Children cannot pay for their education themselves. This is the adult's job.

So your statement doesn't bring anything new, actually.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 22, 2013)

theliq said:


> Annika55 said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...





I am amazed   LIQ     I am not all that fond of  DEATH NUMBERS-----but you are bringing 
up    a number----8000  since  1948---- which pales to  NOTHING in the face of  the DOZENS OF MILLIONS  of non muslims ---murdered BY MUSLIMS----INTER RELIGION 
WARS    since  1948       I am---of course---leaving out the intra muslim sectarian 
blood letting----just the  "LETS KILL THE KAFFIRIN CAMPAIGNS---since  1948

Over 1400 years the numbers rise to  HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS-----

try to maintain some perspective.   No killing would be best---but the fact is 
that Israel faces a  KILLING MACHINE that has been at it for 1400 years 
and COUNTING------right now that machine is picking up momentum 
across the world 

   a bit of an aside.     If you were not a bit alerted when  Achmadinejad 
     DECLARED  in the UN    "ISLAM IS THE RELIGION FOR ALL THE WORLD" 

       then you are stupid. 

    I vividly remember Kruschev announcing    'WE WILL BURY YOU---YOUR 
            GRANDCHILDREN WILL GROW UP UNDER COMMUNISM" 

         as the forerunner to genocides in the tens of milions by communist 
           movements across asia                    8000?   is that number real?
                                       in 64 years---averaging a few hundred per year?

                                       not nice but certainly not startling like the 
                                          BIAFRAN GENOCIDE OF THE 1970s 

sit tight----I believe things are going to get a lot worse


----------



## theliq (Feb 22, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > "If Palestinians didn't exist - they'd have to invent them. "
> ...



And Siagon,the Americans were/are the worst demonizers of others...WHEN IT SUITS THEM


----------



## Lipush (Feb 22, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > "If Palestinians didn't exist - they'd have to invent them. "
> ...



we didn't reach that level of tolerant thinking yet, because there is too much "bad blood" between us and the Palestinians. being completely honest, each side believes its way is the right way, and we attach ourselves to the memoty of our lost ones so tightly we somehow forget the big picture and cannot detach ourselves from anger and pain to see more widly. It will take many many years to overcome this stubborness and Survival mechanism, if at all it'll happen.


----------



## Lipush (Feb 22, 2013)

theliq said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



Yeah, a classic example for "seeing the big picture".

NOT


----------



## theliq (Feb 22, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Annika55 said:
> ...





 YOU SAID IT ALL WITH  "IT PALES INTO NOTHING"......well from now I have drawn a line in the Sand and will Never Dialogue with You Again.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 22, 2013)

Lipush said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



Those are very wise thoughts, Lipush.

I think it takes time for people to start to let go, and that process can only really start when the violence stops. It needs for the Israeli people to be able to realise that they haven't had a missile land nearby for a year or two before they can start to trust and start to see the Palestinians in a different light. And likewise the other way around. 

I've always thought Israel's best tactic in Gaza was to do everything possible to allow life there to reach a certain level of normality, because if there are no attacks, no drones, no checkpoints and no raids, it will force Gazans to blame Hamas for their poverty, and not Israel. Everytime Israel attacks Gaza, it lets Hamas off the hook.


----------



## Lipush (Feb 22, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...



And that will also means that we have to let our defenses drop. Israel could never allow herself to do that. 

It reminds me of the basic rule for every IDF soldier. "Never let go of your rifle", not even in your sleep. That's a mental note more than a physical one. To people who're so used to have a wall (weather in reality or in mental emotional figure) it's difficult to impossible to let go of this simple protection option.

I wish we could get to a point where we could trust Palestinians enough to let them have this "normality", because normality there, in Gaza, meanst normality in Israel, too. if there are no drones or airplanes or tanks, there are no soldiers risking their lives managing them. which is best for all.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 22, 2013)

Lipush - 

I don't think Israel can afford to let her defences drop, but they can defend in a different way. 

For instance, future Palestinian ports, airports and international borders could allow UN or EU inspectors to run the customs and freight control, to ensure no guns are allowed into Palestine. Israel could observe. This allows Palestinians to feel that they have their own rights and freedoms, but also defnd Israel from an influx of weapons. 

Also, Israel's land border with the West Bank could utilise part of the existing partition wall, which could even be extended along the entire border. It's not ideal,  but it is a solution both sides could probably live with.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 22, 2013)

I do not believe that the hostility which the "palestinians" 
bear toward israel is entirely or even MOSTLY  "poverty"  driven. 
It is ideological.     Does anyone here believe that attacks on Copts 
in Egypt are based MOSTLY on economics.?    Does anyone here believe 
that the Ku Klux Klan people lynched blacks on sex libels because the 
klanners were impoverished compared to the blacks? 

Who are the taliban?    impoverished pakistanis in comparison ---to WHOM?


----------



## iolo (Feb 22, 2013)

Roudy said:


> *Myths and facts about Jerusalem and Temple Mount*
> 
> 1) The Islamic claim to the Temple Mount is very recent - Jerusalem's role as "The Third Holiest Site in Islam" in mainstream Islamic writings does not precede the 1930s. It was created by the grand mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> ...



Jerusalem. like the rest of Palestine, belongs to the descendants of the original settlers,  as everywhere where there was agriculture.   In Palestine these were mainly the people living there before the nazi colonisation started under the British.    The Romans, as everyone knows, were not zionists and didn't go in for ethnic cleansing, so there was no great change of population.    The descendants of those who built the Temple are now Muslim or Christian - it happened throughout the Middle East, obviously.   Fight racist colonialism NOW!


----------



## Lipush (Feb 22, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Lipush -
> 
> I don't think Israel can afford to let her defences drop, but they can defend in a different way.
> 
> ...



I dunno, that's outta my small league

Right now following our politics, I am left amused. apperently Natanyahu has difficulties creating a normal coalition, because Lapit and Bennett don't want to be in the same government with the bloodsucking Shas party.

My hopes is that he'll have to call for help and then we will have both Bennet and Lapid calling the shots. No more rediculous taxes, no more hilarious decisions when it comes to outside politics.

I have my fingers crossed.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 22, 2013)

iRosie - 

There is no Palestinian "ideology". There is no Israeli "ideology". 

The reason the Chinese do not rise up and overthrow the Communist regime is because they have full bellies, new refridgerators and cars. They have hope. This is what the Palestinians do not have. 

All racial hatred is like your own - driven by frustration, prejudice and ignorance. In the case of the Palestinians, much of that frustration is understandable, though the prejudice and ignorance perhaps less so. 

Easing poverty will help, though it would need to be accompanied by greater freedoms, a sense of political enfranchisement and renewed hope. Education will also be needed. Even then, it will take many years before the hatred is really left in the past.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 22, 2013)

theliq said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...




  hilarious    LIQ is playing  "HOLIER THAN THOU.....

          I am reminded of a story I heard from a concentration camp,
          A nazi official described as personally impeccable in dress and 
          grooming----was examining the doings of the camp---
          exterminations --etc----- in due course a guard grabbed a hidden 
          child by the ankles and slammed its head against a stone will---the 
          friable child's brain shattered and a bit splashed on the impeccable 
          jacket of the nazi official who was rendered INDIGNANT   over 
          his sullied jacket and walked away FUMING


----------



## Lipush (Feb 22, 2013)

iolo said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > *Myths and facts about Jerusalem and Temple Mount*
> ...



Those who ignore the long Jewish history and connection to Jerusalem are ignoring more than 60% of the whole base to the Israeli Palestinian conflict.

No Jew will ever give up the right to Jerusalem, Jerusalem is our heart, mind, and soul. those who claim Jerusalem to belong only to the Palestinians are liars, hypocrits, and souless people.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 22, 2013)

Lipush said:


> I dunno, that's outta my small league
> 
> Right now following our politics, I am left amused. apperently Natanyahu has difficulties creating a normal coalition, because Lapit and Bennett don't want to be in the same government with the bloodsucking Shas party.
> 
> ...



Interesting - I haven't been following this very closely. I was so disappointed that Netanyahu could remain in power....but I'll have to read more about this. I can undertand people not wanting to work with Shas. 

My hope is with Hatenuah retaining the Ministry of Justice and negotiations...


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 22, 2013)

from IOLO 
Jerusalem. like the rest of Palestine, belongs to the descendants of the original settlers, as everywhere. In Palestine these were mainly th peoplee living there before the nazi colonisation started under the British. The Romans, as everyone knows, were not zionists and didn't go in for ethnic cleansing. The descendants of those who built the Temple are now Muslim or Christian - it happened throughout the Middle East, obviously. Fight racist colonialism NOW!


  you give yourself away   IOLO----you know nothing about the history of  "palestine"   

  in fact nothing about  HISTORY.     The agenda of the romans of old times  
  was their CONCEPT OF PAX ROMANA ----which is not much different from  
  any other fascist concept----very similar to    DAR AL ISLAM----the idea was to 
  IMPOSE ROMAN CULTURE  on the world by destroying  the cultures of 
  "others"      The sacking of jerusalem by TITUS  was indeed a very 
  SIGNIFICANT act of  ethnic cleansing----in fact rome did a job 
  on  the british isles in the   C.E.   rendeing it  PART OF THE HOLY 
  ROMAN EMPIRE      The nazi code was made by  CONSTANTINE 
  ---first emperor of the "HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE" ---its details 
  were not entirely orginal----they were a   RECAP  of the concept 
  of  PAX ROMANA    with the imposition of christianity thrown in
  Constantine's  law   (codified by his grandson  JUSTIN ---into  
  JUSTINIAN LAW-)-----was the law upon which the INQUISITION 
  was based.    Go right ahead and tell me that the INQUISTION  
  had nothing to do with  "ethnic cleansing"

  More for you----the jew who salvaged the HISTORY of the times --
  JOSEPHUS FLAVIUS ----suceeded because he agreed to become 
  a ROMAN CITIZEN  ------he "collaborated"    Had he not 
  COLLABORATED  ----he would have been enslaved.   He acted 
  like a ROMAN---DRESSED LIKE A ROMAN---LIVED LIKE A ROMAN---
  and was actually accepted as a ROMAN SCHOLAR ---by the romans


----------



## Unkotare (Feb 22, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Interesting - I haven't been following this very closely. I was so disappointed that Netanyahu could remain in power....but I'll have to read more about this. I can undertand [sic] people not wanting to work with Shas. ...







Do you "undertand"? How undertanding of you.


----------



## Unkotare (Feb 22, 2013)

Saigon said:


> The reason the Chinese do not rise up and overthrow the Communist regime is because they have full bellies, new refridgerators and cars. They have hope.





Nowhere near that simple, of course.


----------



## Lipush (Feb 22, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > I dunno, that's outta my small league
> ...



I'm afraid (or not really,lol) that it won't be the case.

Livni is smart at many issues, NOT when it comes with negotiating. And Bennett stands high for saying very clear that if she's in, he's out. And Bennett out means Lapid and Mofas out. Means Netanyahu has AT BEST 56-57 mandates, and that's not enough.

for him to be able to have a coalition two things need to happen. Shas has to go home, and Livni has to drop the Palestinian issue and be only ministress of Justice.

If that won't happen, Netanyahu will not have enough power, means even new elections. New elections means he'll at best, scratch the 25 mandates.

I don't care much about Livni, because I don't think there is muce damage she can do. But I don't want Shas in. Any attempt to bring those vampires down, is blessed. Hurray for Bennett and Lapid.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 22, 2013)

uhm    I am not all that clear about things----but it seems to me 
that Bennett should try to live with Livni-----better than creating 
a  NEED  for shas-----but I am not all that clear-----I think 
shas ---if  COMPLETELY  excluded,  can create trouble -----
shas has to be treated like a spoiled kid----cajoled


----------



## ima (Feb 22, 2013)

Lipush said:


> iolo said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



So if we give every Jew and their descendants a free ticket to go to Jerusalem any time they want, then we could give it back to the arabs as part of a real peace offer?


----------



## Roudy (Feb 22, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Annika55 said:
> 
> 
> > I tend to "excuse" much of Rose and Roudy's offensive remarks because Rose has a husband and family who suffered greatly under Shariah law in an Islamic country. They fled and also suffered in making their escape.
> ...


As far as we can tell, you are a highly insecure person that has been caught lying a few times making incorrect assumptions about other posters.  Most of the time you have no idea what you are talking about. 

And speaking of racial hatred we already established in the last go around that you are a regular at StromFront. So again whatever garbage that comes out of you best applies to yourself.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 22, 2013)

iolo said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > *Myths and facts about Jerusalem and Temple Mount*
> ...





> the descendant of those who built the temple are now Muslim or Chritian....



Ya right!  Anything but Jewish, right?!  Ha ha ha.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 22, 2013)

Unkotare said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting - I haven't been following this very closely. I was so disappointed that Netanyahu could remain in power....but I'll have to read more about this. I can undertand [sic] people not wanting to work with Shas. ...
> ...


Leave the poor guy alone, he has certain delusions about himself. LOL


----------



## Saigon (Feb 22, 2013)

> you are a highly insecure person that has been caught lying a few times



Um....it was FIVE times on this thread alone that you were caught lying, if memory serves. 

You seem to be suffering from Ass-bergers Syndrome.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 22, 2013)

Saigon said:


> iRosie -
> 
> There is no Palestinian "ideology". There is no Israeli "ideology".
> 
> ...




Saigon     you are really stupid      of course there is  PALESTNIAN IDEOLOGY 
and there is  CHINESE IDEOLGY -----and not everything is driven by  
POVERTY and cured by  "FULL BELLIES"

back to my nazi town of origin.     There was NO ACTUAL POVERTY 
in my town-----NONE!!!!    In fact my family lived in what could be 
described as the  "POOREST"  section of town----most of the 
dad's were "blue collar"  in my little area-----and most of the moms--
housewives------BUT WE WERE SOLID MIDDLE CLASS----the general 
area was described back then as    ONE OF THE MOST PROSPEROUS 
in the country on average    I attribute that fact to an utter absence 
 of    a  "lower"  class----there was no "wrong side of the tracks ---
IN THAT TOWN -----no "servant"  class      Now explain to me why  
the town was  "RESTRICTED"    until about  1950  (having been 
a prosperous town since the revolutionary war)----and chock full of 
nazi sympathizers.   Why was the local  golf club --swimming pool thing so 
RESTRICTED   that when I was there as a "guest"   I could not mention 
my last name------and if a  BLACK PERSON   (well 'colored"  to me---and 
"n*%%er"  to my  neighbors  walked down the street----a police 
car would swing by)----have fun explaining to me why UNIVERSAL  
 full bellies did not do away with  all that -----"stuff"

tell me ---who are the TALIBAN?     the poorest kids from pakistan? 


I absolutely agree that  ECONOMIC stress does give a boost to 
flamboyant   "nationalist"   movements----but it does not 
CREATE  what was not there to begin with.      Without the 
DEICIDE MYTH ------adolf could not have managed to get 
european christians  to  support gassing jewish children and 
ISABELLA  could not have managed to get Spanish catholics 
to throw them into bonfires-------it WAS  actually ideology

I have noticed how utterly  egalitarian is   OIL RICH 
SAUDI ARABIA   (to be fair---the few saudis I have known--
were actually very egalitarian----but there were so few)


----------



## Saigon (Feb 22, 2013)

Lipush said:


> I'm afraid (or not really,lol) that it won't be the case.
> 
> Livni is smart at many issues, NOT when it comes with negotiating. And Bennett stands high for saying very clear that if she's in, he's out. And Bennett out means Lapid and Mofas out. Means Netanyahu has AT BEST 56-57 mandates, and that's not enough.
> 
> ...



I'm not really a huge fan of Livni, but for my money Hatenuah may be the only thing preventing us from another four years of rampant construction in the West Bank. She at least seems sane and reasonable, even if not as concerned about the lack of a peace process as I think a Minister of Justice should be.

Netanyahu is a liability - seen as an impediment to peace in both the US and EU. 

New elections rarely help - in most cases electorates shift into ever more polarised positions on both the left and right, which helps the larger parties and punishes both the extremes and the centre. This might help Netanyahu, and disadvantage both Shas and Hatenuah, I suspect.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 22, 2013)

> Saigon you are really stupid of course there is PALESTNIAN IDEOLOGY
> and there is CHINESE IDEOLGY -----and not everything is driven by
> POVERTY and cured by "FULL BELLIES"



No, there is Palestinian ideology and there is no Chinese ideology. There is a Hamas ideology and there is an ideology of the Chinese Communist Party, though if it has anything to do with Communism that isn't apparent in the streets of Kowloon these days. Not all Palestinians support Hamas, and even less genuinely support their ideology. 

btw. As for "stupid" - have a quick skim read through the thread and spot the poster who can not read write, spell, punctuate or use grammar correctly. He or she is the person most likely to be stupid.


----------



## Lipush (Feb 22, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > I'm afraid (or not really,lol) that it won't be the case.
> ...



I don't like the fact that Livni says that "Natanyahu's a disaster" and that she's the sane option to change his "idiotic ways" and that there is not change she will sit next to him "to watch how he brings our state to its ruins" but she's also the first one to jump on the carrier when he's having tough times. It makes people believe that more than wanting a change, she wanted a seat.

That seems like cheap politics to me, and I don't like cheap politics. I voted Bennett because he seamed honest about wanting a change, he said he wishes a change in the education and economics, and that his views about dealing with the west bank are very clear. He called for free economy and better education for out children- education based on values of labor, Zionism and history. upgrading the situation to better teachers (by better salaries) and smaller classes (25-32 children in class, instead of 40+)

What I see is that one of the most important things, the "equality of weight carrying" between secular and orthodox concerning the army service, is dealth with by Bennett and Lapid beautifully. They both are very brave and won't budge to the selfish wills of Netanyahu. It's nice to see two young politicians saying "This will be our way because its very important to the people", risking their own seats when fighting a selfish prime minister who doesn't listen to the nation's will and does what's best for him only.

That is truely a good sign.


----------



## Unkotare (Feb 22, 2013)

Saigon said:


> btw. As for "stupid" - have a quick skim read through the thread and spot the poster who can not read write, spell, punctuate or use grammar correctly. He or she is the person most likely to be stupid.




It's good that you can face up to your shortcomings like that.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 22, 2013)

Saigon said:


> iRosie -
> 
> I consider the Palestinian people to exist in the same way I consider the Italian, Canadian and German people to exist.
> 
> ...




  It was never difficult for me----for me....   population genetics, 
anthropology and sociology  concepts are virtually as self evident 
as simple plane geometry.    YOU are very confused    You have 
concluded that  NATIONALITY IS INHERTIED GENETICALLY    
-----nope.    It is transmitted ENVIRONMENTALLY.    Read  
CHILDHOOD AND SOCIETY   erikson  

according to YOUR theory----if some populations admix 
with other populations---even on the basis of ENSLAVEMENT---
the populations which took on some  "DNA"   from the enslaved 
population become  PART OF THE NATION OF ORIGIN of those 
slaves.      a good example  >>  because of their millenia activity 
in the slave trade----REAL ARABS  (ie origin from arabia)   are admixed 
considerably with  subsaharan black ---and because of proximity---
with ETHIOPIANS-----that fact does not make  REAL ARABS  
---a nation of ethiopians and subsaharans

you have decided that if there are arab muslims  with  some   JEBUSITE ---
DNA  in   the middle east----that fact makes them  "JEBUSITES"---
nope-----they are   of the nations of  ARAB MUSLIMS    "jebusite"  
is not extant..    If there are JEWS  with some jebusite DNA --which is
also highly likely----that fact does not make them JEBUSITES  either.
Jebusite is not an extant nation----those people of ---by nationality 
MIDDLE EAST JEWS  who identify as  "stemming from jacob 'aka' 
israel'     and statistically----do.

today   EGYPTIANS    are called  "arabs"   Chances are there is LOTS  
of ancient egyptian DNA  mixed in that population-----even if you find 
some  KING TUT   DNA  in an egytptian muslim arab----he is 
of the nation of MIDDLE EAST MUSLIM ARABS and does not own 
the gold  casket of  King Tut

nationality is not passed  ALLELE BY ALLELE--

analyis of DNA  can reveal a GENERAL   association with this or that 
group ----and evidence of migrations ---etc  

do not despair-----lots of people never grasp population genetics 
or plane geometry


----------



## Saigon (Feb 22, 2013)

Lipush - 

I do agree about Livni, but she certainly isn't the first politician to spend an entire campaign attacking a politician - and then enter into coalition talks 24 hours after the polls close.

We saw the same thing with the LibDems in Britain, and also here in Finland where we have a left-right coalition. It is the nature of our systems. 

Our system is almost the same as your's and in general I love it, but that aspect to it is not always so attractive.


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 22, 2013)

theliq said:


> Annika55 said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


SFB, Annika always has her facts in order and she doesn't lie. She also has more brains in her pinkie finger than you possess. Lay off.


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 22, 2013)

Unkotare said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > The reason the Chinese do not rise up and overthrow the Communist regime is because they have full bellies, new refridgerators and cars. They have hope.
> ...


Yep. They don't have guns. That's why they're so contented.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 22, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > you are a highly insecure person that has been caught lying a few times
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Te fact that you keep repeating your bullshit doesn't really add up to a hill of beans. You were't able to establish Jack shit other than other posters called you on your lies. So which is it, were Arabs in Palestine during the Stone Age, Bronze Age, or Ice Age?  

And how are things at StormFront these days?  Made any new Nazi friends?  I can understand why you come to this board, we have a few of them here as well, *as in the ones that were defending you.*. You see, shit always gets attracted to other shit.


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 22, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > you are a highly insecure person that has been caught lying a few times
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That would be a catsasstrophe!


----------



## Roudy (Feb 22, 2013)

toastman said:


> Saigon , I appreciate that you respond to my posts with respect, but you appear to be in some sort of denial. You are trying to portray the Palestinians as some peaceful people, but I fail to see what they have offered for peace


Toast, trust me, this guy is scum, he tries to disarm people with his I've been to x y and z.  He does it not only on this board but other boards too. 

Bottom line is he's an ignorant Pali terrorist ass licker who's always coming to the defense of Islamists and justifying Palestinian terrorism. And, he's a confessed StormFront regular.   Not to mention he's a whiner extraordinaire and highly insecure about his shortcomings, that has a hissy fit every time he's exposed.


----------



## theliq (Feb 22, 2013)

Roudy said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon , I appreciate that you respond to my posts with respect, but you appear to be in some sort of denial. You are trying to portray the Palestinians as some peaceful people, but I fail to see what they have offered for peace
> ...



The Truth About Palestine.(About Time,Zionism and the Lies)

The following is an overview of the partition of Palestine in 1947.This resulted in the creation of Israel and the dispossession of the Palestinian people.

PARTITION  Resolution 181:The Partition of Palestine 29th November 1947

On the 23rd of September 1947,the General Assembly assigned the question of partitioning of Palestine to its Ad Hoc Committee.Another sub committee was to study the proposal of establishing a unitary State in Palestine in which the Democratic Constitution would guarantee the human rights and fundamental freedom of all its citizens without distinction as to race,language or religion.The two reports were submitted and after prolonged discussions,there was great pressure from the United States and the Soviet Delegation to adopt the Resolution to Partition Palestine.

It was on 25th of November 1947 that the world became acquainted for the first time with the final draft of the partition resolution:Resolution 181.The General Assembly REFUSED a resolution to submit the Palestine question to the Internation Court of Justice to determine whether the UN had any jurisdiction to recommend the partition of Palestine or any other country.

For a draft resolution to become an official one, UN procedures required a two thirds majority of its Ad-Hoc committee.As two votes were lacking for such a majority,the draft was handed to the General Assembly.Both Zionist and Arab delegations were now in a race against time. Other delegates who had originally favoured partition proposals,started to waver but were pressured and guided by the White House and the US Secretary of State to ensure that a favourable outcome was secured(for the Zionists and Jewish Lobby.....Whats changed in the last 60 odd years up to today,NOTHING except American tax payers are paying for the trillions paid to Israel) Sorry to digress.

Concerted and remarkable lobbying/bribing by the Zionist lobby and their lackies the Americans ensured that at the last moment, that those 8 wavering and doubtful votes were swung into the partition lobby. The strenght of the Jewish/Zionist lobby in Washington had been a revelation.2bcontinued


----------



## Saigon (Feb 22, 2013)

> Bottom line is he's an ignorant Pali terrorist ass licker who's always coming to the defense of Islamists and justifying Palestinian terrorism. And, he's a confessed StormFront regular. Not to mention he's a whiner extraordinaire and highly insecure about his shortcomings, that has a hissy fit every time he's exposed.



You have to laugh, don't you?

One thing I've always said about you, Holston - you know when you are beaten!


btw. The forefathers of today's Palestinians were in Jerusalem in both the Stone Age and Bronze Age. I posted proof on this earlier.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 23, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > Bottom line is he's an ignorant Pali terrorist ass licker who's always coming to the defense of Islamists and justifying Palestinian terrorism. And, he's a confessed StormFront regular. Not to mention he's a whiner extraordinaire and highly insecure about his shortcomings, that has a hissy fit every time he's exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




you posted no "proof"  of that idiotic statement ----nor does any exist.   

Basic concepts in population genetics are not all the difficult----your 
statement indicates that you are CLUELESS     You COULD reasonably 
assert    "the probablity is high that there are people in the group called 
palestinians who carry genetic material inherted from ancient people who 
at one time sojouned in the land which is today Jerusalem----<< and that 
is about it.    Anything more is UTTERLY IDIOTIC 

of course you should also be aware of the fact that you could JUST 
as reasonably assert    "the probablity is high that there are 
people in the group called  "palestinians"  who carry genetic 
material  from  greeks who invaded  into the middle east "  

in sum and substance------you have proven nothing and you 
have made a silly and flamboyant assertion for which there 
is no basis


----------



## Saigon (Feb 23, 2013)

> you posted no "proof" of that idiotic statement ----nor does any exist.



Of course it exists, Rosie!! 

There must be 20 studies out there on this topic - here is one:

http://www.stml.net/text/Populations.pdf


----------



## Saigon (Feb 23, 2013)

"Genetic analysis suggests that a majority of the Muslims of Palestine, inclusive of Arab citizens of Israel, are descendants of Christians, Jews and other* earlier inhabitants of the southern Levant whose core may reach back to prehistoric times.*"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people



> Te fact that you keep repeating your bullshit doesn't really add up to a hill of beans. You were't able to establish Jack shit other than other posters called you on your lies. So which is it, were Arabs in Palestine during the Stone Age, Bronze Age, or Ice Age?



If you read the link in post #307, you will see that genetics link modern Palestinians with the people who lived in Jerusalem during both the Stone and Bronze Ages, exactly as I explained earlier.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 23, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > Bottom line is he's an ignorant Pali terrorist ass licker who's always coming to the defense of Islamists and justifying Palestinian terrorism. And, he's a confessed StormFront regular. Not to mention he's a whiner extraordinaire and highly insecure about his shortcomings, that has a hissy fit every time he's exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Saigoooon unleashes:





> btw. The forefathers of today's Palestinians were in Jerusalem in both the Stone Age and Bronze Age. I posted proof on this earlier.



Beahabahahahahahahahaha!  Aren't the shameless Pali terrorist loving liars the ones that are always accusing others of lying?!  First he says Stones, then few posts later he backtracks and lies saying he meant Brinze Ages....and now he's back to the Stone Ages!  

Hey why it the Ice Ages, or perhaps...when the dinasours roamed?!  If you're gonna lie, go big, man!  Ah never mind I didn't need to tell you that!


----------



## Saigon (Feb 23, 2013)

Roudy - 

By all means address the material posted.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 23, 2013)

Saigon said:


> "Genetic analysis suggests that a majority of the Muslims of Palestine, inclusive of Arab citizens of Israel, are descendants of Christians, Jews and other* earlier inhabitants of the southern Levant whose core may reach back to prehistoric times.*"
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people
> 
> ...



...and I can show you from the same Wikipedia a Cohen gene that is exclusive to Jews which does not exist in Arabs, and ties all the Jews to Aaron, and the very same Jews that lived in Israel 3000 years ago.   CHECK MATE.  When showing genealogical research what's important is what genes are exclusive to certain groups, NOT what is common. For example, Jews and Japanese of all people have some common genes. 

And, If you read from your own link the Palestinians didn't  even know what the fuck they are themselves. 

The historical record continued to reveal an interplay between "Arab" and "Palestinian" identities and nationalism. The idea of a unique Palestinian state separated out from its Arab neighbors was at first rejected by Palestinian representatives. The First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations (in Jerusalem, February 1919), which met for the purpose of selecting a Palestinian Arab representative for the Paris Peace Conference, adopted the following resolution: "*We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds."[60]*


----------



## Saigon (Feb 23, 2013)

Roudy - 

Please try and stay on topic. 

The issue here is genetic history - which you claimed to be interested in. You have asked for this material to be posted a half dozen times - and now apparently refuse to look at it. 

Here it is again for you to ignore: 

http://www.stml.net/text/Populations.pdf

The 1919 Paris Peace Process and statements made at it are not disputed by anyone.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 23, 2013)

The material you posted is CRAP:

*The Cohanim - DNA Connection*
The fascinating story of how DNA studies confirm an ancient biblical tradition.

In the first study, as reported in the prestigious British science journal, Nature (January 2, 1997), 188 Jewish males were asked to contribute some cheek cells from which their DNA was extracted for study. Participants from Israel, England and North America were asked to identify whether they were a Cohen, Levi or Israelite, and to identify their family background.
The results of the analysis of the Y chromosome markers of the Cohanim and non-Cohanim were indeed significant. A particular marker, (YAP-) was detected in 98.5 percent of the Cohanim, and in a significantly lower percentage of non-Cohanim.

In a second study, Dr. Skorecki and associates gathered more DNA samples and expanded their selection of Y chromosome markers. Solidifying their hypothesis of the Cohens' common ancestor, they found that a particular array of six chromosomal markers was found in 97 of the 106 Cohens tested. This collection of markers has come to be known as the Cohen Modal Hapoltype (CMH) -- the standard genetic signature of the Jewish priestly family. The chances of these findings happening at random is greater than one in 10,000.
The finding of a common set of genetic markers in both Ashkenazi and Sephardi Cohanim worldwide clearly indicates an origin pre-dating the separate development of the two communities around 1000 CE. Date calculation based on the variation of the mutations among Cohanim today yields a time frame of 106 generations from the ancestral founder of the line, some 3,300 years -- the approximate time of the Exodus from Egypt, the lifetime of Aaron HaCohen.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 23, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> Please try and stay on topic.
> 
> ...


Still don't see any reference to Arabs in the Stone Age or Bronze Age being Palestinians.  Lame effort. I give you an F across the board.  You are a horrible liar and bad poker player who doesn't know when to fold.  LOL


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Age

The Stone Age is a broad prehistoric period during which stone was widely used to make implements with a sharp edge, a point, or a percussion surface. The period lasted roughly 3.4 million years, and ended between 4500 BC and 2000 BC with the advent of metalworking.[1] Stone Age artifacts include tools used by humans and by their predecessor species in the genus Homo, as well as the earlier partly contemporaneous genera Australopithecus and Paranthropus. Bone tools were used during this period as well, but are more rarely preserved in the archaeological record. The Stone Age is further subdivided by the types of stone tools in use.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 23, 2013)

Roudy - 

Actually, there are another half dozen or so studies which produce quite similar results. I am happy to post those as well if anyone is interested in seeing them. 

They all establish that the modern Palestinian people can trace their history in the area back to the Stone Ages, as I suggested earlier.

Here's an interesting graphic from another study.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 23, 2013)

> Still don't see any reference to Arabs in the Stone Age or Bronze Age being Palestinians. L



Then try reading the material posted.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 23, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > > Bottom line is he's an ignorant Pali terrorist ass licker who's always coming to the defense of Islamists and justifying Palestinian terrorism. And, he's a confessed StormFront regular. Not to mention he's a whiner extraordinaire and highly insecure about his shortcomings, that has a hissy fit every time he's exposed.
> ...


In conclusion he put his foot in his mouth while messing with the wrong people, and now he's grasping at straws.  I really feel sorry for him.  In essence, he's his own worst enemy!  Ha ha ha!


----------



## Roudy (Feb 23, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> Actually, there are another half dozen or so studies which produce quite similar results. I am happy to post those as well if anyone is interested in seeing them.
> 
> ...


Stone ages lasted for millions of years you fucking dipshit. Try again.  Did you see how the same Egyptians you related to Arabs in the Bronze Age,  are actually NORTH AFRICANS as I taught you graciously, and are OUT of the circle?  OOOPS!  

Dude you are too easy, I'd like to debate with someone who has an IQ a little more than the 70 you display.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 23, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> Please try and stay on topic.
> 
> ...


Your link is useless and doesn't prove Jackshit.  Basically everybody is related to everybody.....WELL DUH!  I coulda told you dat!  

" Jews, Cretans, Egyptians, Iranians, Turks and Armenians are probably the closest relatives to Palestinians." 

Ha ha ha. Utterly meaningless drivel.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 23, 2013)

Roudy - 

I am always happy to post material for people who are open-minded enough to look at it, literate enought to understand it, and honest enough to discuss it.

This is not you.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 23, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> I am always happy to post material for people who are open-minded enough to look at it, literate enought to understand it, and honest enough to discuss it.
> 
> This is not you.


Perhaps try material that is legitimate not the bogus garbaggio you presented, and doesn't claim a "Palestine" or a "Palestinian people" that never existed before the Roman invasion, and there never were PALESTINIAN ARABS until the after the creation of the state of Israel?  How about that.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 23, 2013)

Holston - 

One possibility is that the half dozen academic studies involved are, as you say, "bogus".

The other is that you simply lack the literacy and honesty to address them. 

For a poster who thought auto da fe was a late model Renault, I don't think that's going to puzzle us for terribly long.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 23, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Holston -
> 
> One possibility is that the half dozen academic studies involved are, as you say, "bogus".
> 
> ...


The other likely, no, obvious possibility is that you're a lying scumbag Islamo-terrorist ass licker who just posted biased propaganda. Yeah that's it. 

And I'm not Holston.  Forget your meds this morning?


----------



## Saigon (Feb 23, 2013)

Roudy said:


> The other likely, no, obvious possibility is that you're a lying scumbag Islamo-terrorist ass licker who just posted biased propaganda. Yeah that's it.
> 
> And I'm not Holston.  Forget your meds this morning?



As I mentioned earlier, there are at least four major pieces of academic research, all peer-reviewed, and which all reach roughly similar conclusions. 

So no - I don't think the idea that they are "bogus" or "biased" is very credible. 


And yes - I think you are Holston. Not literally - but in effect. Both obsessed with race and hatred, both poorly informed, and both prefer lies and deceit to truth and facts. The two of you should date. You could produce other small, bigoted trolls.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 23, 2013)

Saigon---there are very basic flaws in your "scholarship"  which 
you would know if you had basic knowlege of population genetics and of the field of anthropology.    To start---BIOLOGICAL systems have interacted since long before 
the stone age  THRUOUT THE WORLD ----the mayans 
of  ancient south america are CLOSELY RELATED to the 
MONGOLIANS   north of india ----biologically.    To say that 
the  people today called  "palestinians"   are genetically 
related to persons from the area of the world which was called 
PALESTINE for 2000 years is virtually meaningless----it is a natural  FACT  of biology just as the ESKIMOS of North 
America are related to the MOGOLIAN 
people of north asia      The issue is the interpretation of 
this data which according to you comes out 
to be  "there were arabs in jerusalem in the 
stone age"    Nope   and there were no eskimos in 
Japan in the stone age either.

ESKIMO is a culture  with a language and customs --
it is the INUIT NATION no matter what its REMOTE 
REMOTE  genetics.    "arab"  is also a "culture"---
especially according to  ARABS and their nazi offshoot 
 ARABISTS      and the nazi concept of the UAR---
"UNITED ARAB REPUBLIC"   which describes jews as 
GENETIC FOREIGNERS  to  the middle east.    None 
of the studies you present place  "ARABS" in jerusalem.
 They simply confirm the genetic admixture   (IN THE 
MIDDLE EAST)  of----arabs--other people in recent history
invaded by arabs --like egypt, Lebanon, syria,  etc  
and confirm that JEWS   are also of the Middle east ---and that is all your studies reveal.    The people who wrote about the
  studies LUDICROUSLY  decided to refer to all the people of 
CANAAN  as  "palestinians"   and there lies your confusion 
at the hands of the propagandaists who strive mightily to 
manipulate     The people of ancient canaan were not  "PALESTINIANS"    they were canaanites----something like 
the jews.     Your article CORRECTLY states that the people 
called PHILISTINES  were from CRETE----when you find studies showing that the "palestinians"  of the SAME GENE POOL as  the people of  CRETE-----you can describe the people 
who call themselves   "PALESTINIANS"   as----PHILISTINES'--
which the romans rendered to PALESTINA.   No such study 
exists.   In fact the studies you present refute that idiotic 
idea ------the people called PHILISTINES ---to wit  cretans---
consituted a now extinct people in the middle east.   The people who DEVELOPED IN THE MIDDLE EAST ----egyptians, 
lebanese, syrians, jordanians,  bedouins,  jews, yemenis, arabians ----NATURALLY  share genetic origins    ALL OF THEM
------gee ---you are even more stupid than is sherri


----------



## Roudy (Feb 23, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Saigon---there are very basic flaws in your "scholarship"  which
> you would know if you had basic knowlege of population genetics and of the field of anthropology.    To start---BIOLOGICAL systems have interacted since long before
> the stone age  THRUOUT THE WORLD ----the mayans
> of  ancient south america are CLOSELY RELATED to the
> ...


Yes irose, it's amazing how everybody is related to everybody. I was thinking maybe the JAPANESE are actually the real Palestinians that go back to PALESTINE all the way up to the STONE AGE!  

The Japanese-Jewish common ancestry theory (&#26085;&#12518;&#21516;&#31062;&#35542;&#65288;&#26085;&#29494;&#21516;&#31062;&#35542;&#65289; Nichiyu D&#333;soron?) appeared in the 17th century as a hypothesis which claimed the Japanese people were the main part of the ten lost tribes of Israel. A later version portrayed them as descendents of a tribe of Jewish Nestorians. Some versions of the theory applied to the whole population, but others only claimed that a specific group within the Japanese people was descended from Jews.

During the Age of Discovery, European explorers attempted to connect many peoples with whom they first came into contact to the Ten Lost Tribes, sometimes in conjunction with attempts to introduce Christian missionaries. The first person to identify the lost tribes with an East Asian nation was João Rodriguez (1561-1634), a Jesuit missionary and interpreter. In 1608, he argued that the both the Japanese and the Chinese descended from the Lost Tribes of Israel. He believed that the Chinese sages Confucius and Lao-tse took their ideas from Judaism.[4] Rodriguez later abandoned this theory. In his Historia da Igreja do Japão he argued that Japan was populated in two waves of immigration from the mainland, one group originating from Chekiang, and the other from Korea.[5]
According to Parfitt, "the first full-blown development of the theory was put forward by Nicholas McLeod, a Scot who started his career in the herring industry before he ended up in Japan as a missionary."[6] In 1870 McLeod published Epitome of the ancient history of Japan[7] and Illustrations to the Epitome of the ancient history of Japan,[8] claiming that the Japanese people included descendants of the lost tribes of Israel, who formed the aristocracy and traditional priestly castes. Evidence cited for this theory included similarities between the legends of Emperor Jimmu and Moses, the presence of "Portuguese-Jewish" racial features on some Japanese, and similarities between Shinto and Judaism.[9]

The Japanese-Jewish common ancestor theory has been seen as one of the attempts by European racial scientists to explain Japan's rapid modernization, in contrast to that of the other "inferior" or "degraded" Asians, especially the Chinese.[9] The theory itself, however, was taken in different directions.
[edit]Jews in China
The same year the book by Saeka on the theory was published an article promoting yet another version of the theory appeared in Israels's Messenger, a magazine published by the Shanghai Zionist Federation. [14] Whereas McLeod had claimed that the priest caste and ruling class of Japan were descendants of Jews, the article published by the Shanghai group offered a more proletarian version of the theory. Ami-Shillony writes that
"Its author claimed, contrary to what McLeod had written, that it was the outcasts of Japan, the Eta (or Ety as the article rendered the term) who were the descendants of Jews.[15]
The author of the article said that, like the Jews in the West, the Japanese Eta were hard working people, especially associated with the shoemaking industry who also lived in ghettos, "not that the Japanese compel them to do so, but they seem to prefer to be isolated from the rest of the population." The author also claimed that the Eta observed Jewish customs: "In the ghetto of Nagasaki, for example, the Ety observe the Sabbath very religiously. Not only do they not work on that day of the week, but they do not smoke nor kindle fires, just like the Orthodox Jews."[16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese-Jewish_common_ancestry_theory


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 23, 2013)

all true    Roudy-----all humans have two ears and one nose-------but MORE IMPORTANT
   the arabs who call themselves  PALESTINIANS  have two ears and one nose  PROVING 
   to SAIGON   that they own jerusalem


----------



## Roudy (Feb 23, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > The other likely, no, obvious possibility is that you're a lying scumbag Islamo-terrorist ass licker who just posted biased propaganda. Yeah that's it.
> ...


Is there something I ever said that led you to believe I actually give hoot about *What you actually think?*.  If so then I apologize for this misunderstanding.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 23, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> all true    Roudy-----all humans have two ears and one nose-------but MORE IMPORTANT
> the arabs who call themselves  PALESTINIANS  have two ears and one nose  PROVING
> to SAIGON   that they own jerusalem


The idiot posts research about a Palestine or Palestinain people that NEVER EXISTED UNTIL THE ROMANS INVADED. And that's supposed to be his *proof* that Palestinians / Arabs go back to the Stone Age in Israel!  And even AFTER the Roman invasion, all the way up to the 1960's, the Palestinians were considered to be JEWS ONLY. 

The amazing thing about the Internet is that illiterate, ignorant morons like Saigoon get to pass themselves as informed knowledgable people.  LOL


----------



## sealadaigh (Feb 23, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



well, you have been responding to him quiter a bit.

i don't know if "hoots" are a measurable quantity, but it is a pretty safe bet that you have exceeded  the legal limit of two.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 23, 2013)

reabhloideach said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


Pointing out inadeqacies and lies does not equate to giving a hoot.

 I'll agree to half a hoot, and that's it.  I'm not going any higher, take it or leave it. LOL.


----------



## sealadaigh (Feb 23, 2013)

Roudy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



it is your and saigon's fight, not mine particularly.

i am more here and now.

he is winning though.


----------



## Jroc (Feb 23, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > you posted no "proof" of that idiotic statement ----nor does any exist.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What exactly are you trying to prove here? Arabs in all the surrounding countries are the same. Syrians, Jordanians, Lebanese and Israeli Arabs are all the same people. Jews are also genetically related to these people, but to say that Philistines still exist, Canaanites still exist etc. is pure fallacy. Those people do not exist anymore. Only the Jews have endured as a people throughout all that time, and we exist as we have always  existed, even though we have been spread out around the world through exile, we still have common culture, common beliefs we are the same as we&#8217;ve always been, part of the nation of Israel . There are no Canaanites, Philistines, Moabites etc.. They are gone. So since all the Arabs that I listed are all the same people, and they already have all those lands, their countries, why can't the Jews have their little piece? Because the Arabs, the muslims want it all that&#8217;s why.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 23, 2013)

focus people    SAIGON is claiming that since the  HUMAN SPECIES     is very much  INTERBRED------that  something like  "PALESTINIANS"  lived in Jerusalem------he is right---
the entire human species is interbred----and something like     MAYANS    lived in 
the british isles 

there is only one  SPECIES of  humans-----to wit  HOMOSAPIENS       Therefore 
we are ALL INTERBRED -----we ALL have common ancestors.      That fact does 
magically create     an ENTERNAL    historic   "PALESTNIAN NATION"


----------



## Saigon (Feb 23, 2013)

JRoc - 



> What exactly are you trying to prove here? Arabs in all the surrounding countries are the same. Syrians, Jordanians, Lebanese and Israeli Arabs are all the same people. Jews are also genetically related to these people, but to say that Philistines still exist, Canaanites still exist etc. is pure fallac



I think the conclusions of the research are fairly clear - the Palestinian people of today really can trace their history in towns like Ashdod back well over two thousand years. While names lke 'Canaanite' have faded off our maps, the genetic code has remained, and can be quite clearly traced. 

While they are obviously related to the people of neighbouring countries, they are also a distinct people genetically.

This graphic, from an entirely different piece of research, perhaps shows it more clearly:






http://faculty.oxy.edu/mccormack/blog.html


----------



## Saigon (Feb 23, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Is there something I ever said that led you to believe I actually give hoot about *What you actually think?*.  If so then I apologize for this misunderstanding.



 Of course you don't care about facts - you care because you are humilated.

It is humiliating that not only do you not get the jokes I put in these threads every so often - you don't even know they are jokes. 

It is humiliating that you are reduced a dozen times on this thread to childish tantrums, the likes of which any ten-year old would be embarassed about. 

It is humiliating that I post links to pieces of excellent academic research, and your only response is foul-mouthed abuse. 

I'm sure everyone who reads these threads senses quite how bitter and hurtful you find these exchanges - but as I said yesterday, your ignorance is entirely dependent on your hatred. A lot of racists grow out of their hatred and at the point you start to face up to the humiliation, in all likelihood you will too.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 24, 2013)

Saigon said:


> JRoc -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nope. Palestinians are Arabs just like the rest of the Arabs.  Period end of story. 

The Palestinians you are referring to are JEWS, not Arabs, since the idea of a Palestinian Arab is only as of 1960's.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 24, 2013)

> Nope. Palestinians are Arabs just like the rest of the Arabs. Period end of story.
> 
> The Palestinians you are referring to are JEWS, not Arabs, since the idea of a Palestinian Arab is only as of 1960's.



You have to laugh, don't you?

The same myths, lies and gibberish, regurgitated day after day after day, long after even the person posting them realised they were an embarrasment. 

It's just anything, anything at all, to avoid dealing with facts. 

Hilarious.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 24, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > Nope. Palestinians are Arabs just like the rest of the Arabs. Period end of story.
> >
> > The Palestinians you are referring to are JEWS, not Arabs, since the idea of a Palestinian Arab is only as of 1960's.
> 
> ...


Laugh at yourself, dipshit, Mr. Palestinian Arabs go back to Israel to the Stone Ages. 

That has to be one of the stupidest, most ignorant comments most posters have ever heard on this board.  Could even be a Hall of Fame award winner alongside some of Sunni man and Sherri's lunatic comments.

All you've done is prove what an ignoramus and liar you are throughout this and other threads. Thanks for the laughs. Ha ha ha!


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Feb 24, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > JRoc -
> ...



Exactly!!!


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 24, 2013)

roudy----saigon is very confused and ---the INTERPRETATIONS of 
history by  ---sands  ----are the desperate dabblings of a failed 
"professor"      I grew up in the USA---in a land once heavily populated
a KNOWN  nation of  american indians----the river beds are chock full of 
arrow heads----     if one were to credit the conclusions of sands and saigon--
there is no question but that I am a  LENNILENAPE INDIAN

the area of the world in which   Israel is located was one of intensive 
population flux----and WARS in which various forces clashed incessantly ---
it is where the huge populations of the two river valleys ENGAGED each other 
----the kingdoms of the nile valley and the kingdoms of mesopotamia---and also an area of wide swings in economics-----
   Both Sands and Saigon ----in order to support  THEIR theories depend 
on the idea that populations   STAY PUT ----as if  "palestine"  were an island---
genetically ISOLATED   like  GALAPAGOS   where whatever species was there 
10,000 years ago ----stayed put and "evolved"     In fact---in a place 
like   "palestine"    they only "cultures"  that remain are those that 
KEEP WRITTEN RECORDS ---and are motivated to SURVIVE AS CULTURES and 
nations------because of the intensive SHIFTS of population.   In palestine---and  CANAAN----the only culture and nation that did do that were jews.  
Even though some of the other nations were LITERATE----they are no longer 
extant as NATIONS -----that some of their DNA   got into the system is 
a point of biology ----NOT NATIONHOOD.   To understand saigon and sands---
you need a bit of population genetics and---a touch of anthropology---
Saigon has neither --and sands is hopeless


----------



## Saigon (Feb 24, 2013)

Roudy - 

It's interesting how you claim this is all amusing and funny - while posting nothing but red-in-the-face screes of abuse and gibberish.

I've posted three or four pieces of research for you - so far you have to yet to muster a single on-topic response. I think we both know why that is.


----------



## Lipush (Feb 24, 2013)

"reasearch" of what?

"Palestinians" are made up nation, clans that immigrated to Israel and have no common ground as a separated nation from the rest of the Arabs. You can put feathers and beak on, it still won't make you a duck.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 24, 2013)

Lipush said:


> "reasearch" of what?
> 
> "Palestinians" are made up nation, clans that immigrated to Israel and have no common ground as a separated nation from the rest of the Arabs. You can put feathers and beak on, it still won't make you a duck.



Well, the research tends to take a different angle to this, because it is concerned only with genetics - and not with politics or even history. This is purely a biological approach to the issue, which I think is fascinating and illuminating - but doesn't answer many questions in itself. 

Wht this research does show is a clear distinction between Palestinian genetic code and that of Egyptians or Saudi Arabians - and a distinction dating backs to thr days on the Canaanites.

It's worth a read - and linked a couple of pages back.


----------



## toastman (Feb 24, 2013)

Hey Saigon. It is a very interesting read. But, common, really ?!? I think you need to start off from the origin of the name 'Palestinian' , then maybe you will find your answer.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 24, 2013)

toastman said:


> Hey Saigon. It is a very interesting read. But, common, really ?!? I think you need to start off from the origin of the name 'Palestinian' , then maybe you will find your answer.



We certainly know how old the term 'Palestinian' is, even if it only really came to be used in its current meaning around 1920.

But when we consider that the words 'Italy' and 'Germany' only date from 1850, there has to be more to history than the name. 

Is anyone going to claim there were no Italians in 1840?

Well, there was no Italy in 1840, and there never had been. 

But obviously the people of Italy an trace their origins in towns like Roma back 3,000 years - just as Palestinians can to towns like Ashdod, Akko and Nablus. 

Jews can also trace their genetic history back 3,000 years - so this isn't bad news for Jews or for Israel.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 24, 2013)

no matter what utterly moot and silly statement   saigon posts up---sherri 
endorses it.      Saigon has correctly stated that  the people called  "palestinians'    have genetic links to the ancient people of the land 
later called palestine.      FROM this information he CONCLUDES  
that the people called  "palestinians'   OWN  "palestine"     
fine with me.     The people called jews have genetic material in THEIR 
gene pool linking them to the populations  of  Iraq,  Yemen  
Kuwait, morocco,  algeria  and---mostly  "palestine      So obviously 
jews own all of the middle east.    If sherri were consistent---she would endorse this post too.    I know of no genetic studies of the Bedouin of 
saudi arabia    It would be interesting to learn which of us owns saudi 
arabia        For those who are not stupid----genetic studies of middle eastern peoples do reveal marked  in breeding in ANCIENT TIMES-----and it also 
reveals that jews originated in the Middle East   and are not  "foreigners'  as 
islamo nazis sows and dogs  assert.      If one is to consider the "logic"  of  
Saigon----the answer is   Jews are  JUST AS ENTITLED TO OWN LAND 
in the Middle East as are arabs ----however ---islamo nazi sows and dogs resent  that fact overwhelmingly

   above is the only reasonable interpretation of the available 
   genetic research


----------



## Saigon (Feb 24, 2013)

> So obviously
> jews own all of the middle east.



Obviously.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 24, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > So obviously
> > jews own all of the middle east.
> 
> 
> ...



typical   GOEBBELS STYLE  evasion     Perhaps you can 
explain that  GENETIC RIGHT  to  "palestine"  of 
arab muslims of which 
the jews who have genetic LINKS in Lebanon, 
syria,  Jordan and even saudi arabia ----and CERTAINLY 
in palestine---should be deprived?     Shall we consider the 
GENETICS  of land rights thruout the world----My own 
ancestors  were in LOTS OF PLACES---and people being what 
they are      ALL BIOLOGICALLY COMPATABLE   ----
I have land rights in LOTS OF PLACES


----------



## Roudy (Feb 24, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> It's interesting how you claim this is all amusing and funny - while posting nothing but red-in-the-face screes of abuse and gibberish.
> 
> I've posted three or four pieces of research for you - so far you have to yet to muster a single on-topic response. I think we both know why that is.


Saigoooon is using the Islamo-Nazi playbook / dreamworld.  In that book the Jews in Israel are "fake Jews" and the Arab invaders from neighboring Arab lands are switched magically to the "real Jews" that are the  "ancient Arab Palestinians who go back to the Stone Age". 

There's really nothing new in his claims other than the usual IslamoNazi garbage that has been vomited and laughed at a million times.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 24, 2013)

Saigon said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Saigon. It is a very interesting read. But, common, really ?!? I think you need to start off from the origin of the name 'Palestinian' , then maybe you will find your answer.
> ...


Wow, what a load of hogwash.  So many errors, mistakes, and lies one doesn't even know where to begin with this dipshit.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 24, 2013)

Saigon is right-----the people whose DNA  got mixed into the gene pool of 
the present   population that calls itself   "palestinian"     had a culture 
entirely comparable to that of ANCIENT ROME     which is why there are so 
many wirtten records and artificats attesting to their ORGANIZATION AS 
A NATION      -----they had a language ---maybe----apparently they never 
figured out that humans can write even though they were sorrounded by 
people who did write and-----seem to imagine now that they were somehow --
the same as the LITERATE   AEGEANS of  ASHDOD------I wonder----what happened----when the aegean philistines left the area-----did they leave their 
misfits in the desert hoping they would die--?-----well   lets face it   SAMSON wa not the only jew who married  a   philistine  "maiden"------uhm---for those 
who do not know------if you have permission from your mother----I will let 
you know how DNA   gets around.-----but the same mechanism does not 
seem to pass  CULTURE OR NATIONHOOD ----on


----------



## theliq (Feb 24, 2013)

Roudy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > all true    Roudy-----all humans have two ears and one nose-------but MORE IMPORTANT
> ...




COMPLETE SHIT,The Palestinians were in the ROMAN HOLY LAND PRIOR TO ROMAN INFLUENCE.....YOU CRETINAND ALL JEWS EMINATED FROM ARABS<>WHEN THEY WERE IN BABYLON< WHICH IS WHERE JEWS ORIGINATED FROM......over the Milleniums Jews have mixed with so many different peoples,as can be seen by the different looking Jews,African,Arab,Persian,European............In nearly every case it is only RELIGION that has made a JEW a JEW, like all people throughout the world they are the same, what we call in Australia ABITSA......a bit of this and a bit of that.................................They are in No Way a Pure Bred Race.......the Japanese think they are,Hitler thought the Germans were, Some Americans think they are......but we all know it's a Crock of Shit.

Cut the crap you Sad little Zionists,You are Dealing with a SUPERIOR BEING WITH ME.....Now Kneel To Your Master,LOL....I AM,THE MAGNIFICENT


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 24, 2013)

theliq said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


Go stand in the corner, kid.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 24, 2013)

theliq said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...




Liq----calm yourself---- "ROMAN HOLY LAND" ???    what is that?     vatican city?

  Until the romans became christians----something that got jump started 
  around 300 AD----- The romans considered ROME  their "holy land"   

  When roman imperialists invaded   Israel/Judea----there were some non jews 
  to the extent of being in little villages left over from the incessant wars of that 
  time----in fact Gaza was a settled place---a kind of  egyptian frontier town and 
  Ashdod still harbored some Aegean sea faring people ---(these are OUTLYING 
  AREAS ---something like the western frontier)   There were also EDOMITES  --
  but edomites were a progressively diappearing group who assimilated---
  ---ie most became jews      Edomites are extinct as a group----according 
  to biblical history they are the off spring of  ESAU (Jacob's   aka  Israel's 
  brother.)      By the time of the sack of jerusalem ----the only extant non 
  jewish group in the area were the  SAMARITANS     who are really a sect 
  of judaism and still extant today.    Around 300 AD --CONSTANTINE  imposed 


christianity upon   PALESTINA <<< the new name for  Israel/judea---and also 
  changed  the name of Jerusalem  to  AEOLIA CAPITOLINA       Just who 
  in this system are you calling   "arabs"  ???        "arabs"---are actually 
  defined as  ARABIC SPEAKING PEOPLE------at the time the  HOLY ROMAN 
  EMPIRE was founded   about 300 AD---the only place arabic was spoken was 
  IN ARABIA        It was about that time that  arabs of arabia FIRST began 
  to develope an alphabet and a script.    If your point is that there was cross 
  breeding between     people living in PALESTINA ----and arabs who invaded 
  or if you are claiming that ----the people upon whom islam was imposed by 
  the invaders  -----were "arabs"  before that invasion----then you are stupid


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## theliq (Feb 24, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Continued RESOLUTION 181

Zionist politicians did not waste time to recruit and lobby wavering delegates.Intensive efforts were made by the Zionist leadership around the world to gain crucial votes,..the French altered their position from ABSTENTION tosupporting the resolution,Liberia and other poor countries, as a result of economic promises,offered support,the direct lobbying of President Truman and pro-Zionist senators(Jews no doubt) and congressmen(Jews no doubt) secured the votes of 12 out of 20 Latin American DESPOT RUN countries.

On Saturday morning,29 November 1947, and AGAINST THE WILL of the Palestinian people, the General Assembly in New York(that bastion of Zionists and Jews)  voted for the partition of Palestine and accepted Resolution 181. It was supported by 33 votes(most rigged) with 13 opposed and 10 abstentions including Britain, whose Prime Minister Clement Atlee saw to it that Britains Commonwealth partners VOTED FOR IT

SO MUCH FOR THE ZIONIST TROLLS ON HERE WHO SAY THERE WERE NO PALISTINIANS AND PALESTINE.....But it gets much worse,just hang in there folks...HERE COMES THELIQ.

Palestine was thus divided into 3 parts,...A JEWISH PART......A PALESTINIAN PART....and wait for it........AN INTERNATIONALLY ADMINISTERED ZONE TO INCLUDE THE CITY OF JERUSALEM!!!!!!!!!!as the Corpus Separatum  to be administered by the corrupted (UNITED NATIONS)   After 10 years, a referendum would be held to seek the views of the city's residents. TODAY AND EVER SINCE THAT, REFERENDUM....."IS DEAD HISTORY". It has been replaced by continued ZIONIST EXPULSIONS OF THE INDIGENOUS Palestinian people of Jerusalem.......(I WILL GIVE YOU TIME TO DIGEST THIS FACT)


The Arab League rejected the plan to PARTITION Palestine by ANY OUTSIDE POWER(I WILL GIVE YOU MORE TIME TO DIGEST HERE)...............and declared its intention to wage WAR against the implementation of this resolution 181.  The stage was then set for the ZIONISTS to make their DREAM a reality.....They brought out a Map they showed to UNSCOP in May 1947 and decided it was time to act. But they faced a problem of having 1 MILLION Palestinians in the part of Palestine allocated to them in the corrupt partition Plan.  But since the 1880's the ZIONISTS had been preparing for such an eventuality.


PALESTINE WAS NOT DIVIDED.>>IT WAS DESTROYED.

Once adopted,the execution of Resolution 181 was referred to the Security Council. The Arabs rejected it outright while the Jews celebrated its adoption. The Palestinians rebelled as the ZIONIST UNDERGROUND TERRORIST FORCES attacked Palestinian villages and towns in ORDER TO SECURE MORE THAN THEIR PORTION OF PALESTINE ALLOCATED TO THEM(What a surprise) in the partition Plan....The United States admitted around March 1948 that the partitioning of Palestine could NOT be carried out in a peaceful manner and proposed that Palestine be placed under temporary UN Trusteeship. This plan and calls for a ceasefire fell on deaf ears.  The Jewish forces exerted all military efforts to achieve maximum LAND GAINS as the British prepared to end their Mandate in Palestine.  By April 1948 the ZIONISTS had achieved a military superiorty and set in motion all political machinery to DECLARE THEIR JEWISH STATE.

Herzl's prediction to establish a Jewish State IN PALESTINE within 50 years was missed by only 1 year it took 51.


On the afternoon of May 14th 1948 the Jewish State of Israel was proclaimed just as the Sabbath began at sunset that day.  At 5.16 EST, US President Harry Truman authorised the rcognition of Israel but not before amending the official DOCUMENT,which presented to him by his advisors,Truman crossed out the word..."JEWISH STATE" and replaced it with the name "ISRAEL", thus implying that it should NOT be exclusively JEWISH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The British Mandate ended the following day at noon 15th of May 1948.

2bcontinued


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## MHunterB (Feb 24, 2013)

Steverino, I've always known you were an extreme egotist - but this demand of yours for others to bow to you?   

That's basically insisting we treat you as though you are GOD.  

I don't really think even you are so arrogant......   it was hardly an amusing 'joke'


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## Hossfly (Feb 24, 2013)

theliq said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...


So why doesn't Little Stevie tell us what happened in Jerusalem when Jordan was in control.  Oh, by the way, Little Stevie Troll, I believe the Jews were the ones who were called the Palestinians and the Arabs were either called just plain Arabs or Syrians.  In fact, if you called an Arab a Palestinian, it was like you were calling him a Jew and thus was insulting him.  Meanwhile, I think I will go with what a retired State Department poster, who is a Christian, once said.  If it makes you feel better, of course you don't have to believe him, Little Stevie.  Just keep on thumping your chest, oh Insignificant One, while you continue pacing the floor of you know where.
Sure there was a Palestine. It was invented in the 1960s in a conference room at 1 Lubyanka, Dzershinsky Place, Red Square, Moscow, CCCP. It came complete with a "Palestinian people" too. In fact, its legacy leader was trained east of Moscow at the legendary Balashikha special-ops school.


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## Saigon (Feb 24, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



Oh, please do start, Roudy!!

What errors are there?

Rreally - could you be ANY more predictable?!


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## Saigon (Feb 24, 2013)

Rosie - 

The reason I rarely reply to your posts is because they lack intellectual merit. 

Your posts are full of contradictions, are badly thought through and poorly informed. Claiming the Jews should own the entire Middle East is a great example of this. 

Forget the accusations and abuse - focus on posting something that makes sense.


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## theliq (Feb 25, 2013)

MHunterB said:


> Steverino, I've always known you were an extreme egotist - but this demand of yours for others to bow to you?
> 
> That's basically insisting we treat you as though you are GOD.
> 
> I don't really think even you are so arrogant......   it was hardly an amusing 'joke'




Look Marg EVERONE thinks they are superior and after reading some of the posts...I thought a little TONGUE IN CHEEK was needed....Stop being sensitive....you KNOW I BOW TO THEE

steve...........keep washing your hands


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## theliq (Feb 25, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



Silly Boy Hoss....and Fucking Boring you are getting like asshole roudy by the day....steve


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## theliq (Feb 25, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



Your prose is total Garbage...What has happened to you..is it that Zionist Guilt Again,  I'm not surprised really with all that Indelible Palestinian BLOOD DRIPPING FROM "YOUR" HANDS AND THAT OF THE  TERRORIST ZIONIST POSSEE....You'll NEVER GET RID OF IT,such is your destiny.


It is becoming impossible to have any meaningful disscussion on here any more,you all have too many HANG UPs and Psychological Problems for me to deal with or bother about.   HOW ON EARTH DO YOU EXPECT ME TO DEAL WITH YOUR GUILTINESS WITHIN YOU ALL.  You have become SAD and as you know I veer away fron NEGATIVE TERRORISTS such as the TERRORIST ZIONIST ORGANIZATION IS. Go away YOU ALL STINK OF GUILTINESS..theliq....I need to spend more time with decent folk


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## Saigon (Feb 25, 2013)

Hossfly - 



> Sure there was a Palestine. It was invented in the 1960s in a conference room at 1 Lubyanka, Dzershinsky Place, Red Square, Moscow, CCCP. It came complete with a "Palestinian people" too. In fact, its legacy leader was trained east of Moscow at the legendary Balashikha special-ops school.



I have no idea why people post garbage like this. It's devoid of facts - and I think we can assume you KNOW it is devoid of facts. 

What's the point?

You don't think anyone with access to google can find out in 5 seconds that the word Palestinian was being used to describe a people in the 5th Century BCE?

"The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece"

Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for the people and the usage of the term in its exact modern meaning...

"...evidence of a burgeoning nationalistic Palestinian identity is found in the content of Arabic-language newspapers in Palestinian Territories, such as Al-Karmil (est. 1908) and Filasteen (est. 1911).[57] Filasteen initially focused its critique of Zionism around the failure of the Ottoman administration to control Jewish immigration and the large influx of foreigners, later exploring the impact of Zionist land-purchases on Palestinian peasants (Arabic: &#1601;&#1604;&#1575;&#1581;&#1610;&#1606;*, fellahin), expressing growing concern over land dispossession and its implications for the society at large"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people

I suggest you apologise to the board for misleading people. Really.


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## Roudy (Feb 25, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Hossfly -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Let us hear what other Arabs have said:

"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -

"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".
- Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -

"It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".
- Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -

What other Arabs declared after the Six-Day War:

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".
- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -


"You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people".
- Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -


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## theliq (Feb 25, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly -
> ...



NUTS TROLL


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## Saigon (Feb 25, 2013)

I don't know why Roudy always posts the same quotes - for anyone who has actually followed this issue closely the idea that Syrians and Saudi Arabians initially opposed Palestinian interests for their own purposes is hardly a new or revolutionary one. 

It's like asking an Indian if he supports an independent Kashmir.


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## ima (Feb 25, 2013)

So who cares when the name Palestinian or Palestine came into being? Israel only came into being in 1948 or so. The point is, people were living there before the Pals and Izzys came into being, and they were pushed aside like garbage.


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## irosie91 (Feb 25, 2013)

ima said:


> So who cares when the name Palestinian or Palestine came into being? Israel only came into being in 1948 or so. The point is, people were living there before the Pals and Izzys came into being, and they were pushed aside like garbage.




   ima---learn some history----WHAT PEOPLE WERE   "pushed aside like garbage"? 
      ----when and where?      Who treated whom  "like garbage"??      for discusson 
      lets limit this   "PEOPLE PUSHED ASIDE LIKE GARBAGE"   to the middle east  and 
      the past 200 years  

      what people are still being treated like garbage?


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## theliq (Feb 25, 2013)

ima said:


> So who cares when the name Palestinian or Palestine came into being? Israel only came into being in 1948 or so. The point is, people were living there before the Pals and Izzys came into being, and they were pushed aside like garbage.



Ima how right you are.steve...the Zionists should be brought to the Hague and the War Crimes Tribunal


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## Saigon (Feb 25, 2013)

ima said:


> So who cares when the name Palestinian or Palestine came into being? Israel only came into being in 1948 or so. The point is, people were living there before the Pals and Izzys came into being, and they were pushed aside like garbage.



I don't agree with your final sentence - but your first sentences are spot on!


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## irosie91 (Feb 25, 2013)

Saigon said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > So who cares when the name Palestinian or Palestine came into being? Israel only came into being in 1948 or so. The point is, people were living there before the Pals and Izzys came into being, and they were pushed aside like garbage.
> ...




the answer to >>

   "who cares when the name Palestinian or Palestine came into being?"

  is----islamo nazi pigs care.      In elaborating a NEW HISTORY  in support of 
  the notion that migrants to Israel/judea-- who in recent years have decided 
  to refer to themselves as  "PALESTINIANS"     and insist that they constitute 
  an ancient people  who  are   THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE  of palestine as opposed 
  to the jews who are "foreign western imperialist invaders"   claim that the term 
  PALESTINE  described that particular nation and culture and which has been in 
  place since  "THE STONE AGE"     Supporters of this idea of the  christian nazi 
  set even insist that   the person "jesus"   was a member of this  
  "NATION OF PALESTINIANS"     Since all people do ascribe to themselves  
   a  "NAME"      the new history ---includes the  "fact"    that  "PALESTINE" 
   is the ancient word used to describe the  area and the people have 
   self described as "palestnians"  for more than 5000 years.   Saigon 
   ascribes to this theory as a manifestation of his confusion over  
   the subject  POPULATION GENETICS    and sherri so ascribes as an 
   aspect of her    islamo nazi   ISA-RESPECTING  creed


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## ima (Feb 25, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



Wow, that sure was a lot of fartsmoke. You wouldn't complain so much if you didn't know that I'm right. Plus, you'd have an argument that's coherent. Better luck next time.


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## Jroc (Feb 25, 2013)

Saigon said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > So who cares when the name Palestinian or Palestine came into being? *Israel only came into being in 1948* or so. The point is, people were living there before the Pals and Izzys came into being, and they were pushed aside like garbage.
> ...



Israel had been named 4000 yrs ago... Christians know this  



> *2000 BC (about 4000 years ago)*
> Jacob (Israel) is born
> Jacob, the son of Isaac, who was the son of Abraham, is born in Canaan. Jacob's name is changed to Israel. (Canaan is later renamed Israel, after Jacob). He has 12 sons, for whom the 12 Tribes of Israel are named


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## Saigon (Feb 25, 2013)

iRosie - 

I have to say, you CONSTANT pretence that anyone who corrects your woeful knowledge of history is a Nazi is about as stupid as anything else you have ever posted. 

That you are so often corrected on matter os fact says little about the people correcting you - and A LOT about the person they are correcting. You and Roudy both need to understand that the more you persist in posting things that you know are not true - the more easily you are ridiculed and dismissed. 

You might as well begin your every post with "Ignore me - I'm bonkers".


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## Saigon (Feb 25, 2013)

Jroc said:


> Israel had been named 4000 yrs ago... Christians know this



I agree with this - both the terms 'Palestine' and 'Israel' are about as old as the name of any country on earth. 

Ironically, what they both also have in common is a lack of modern usage prior to the mid-19th century. 

It is one of the many wonders of these threads is that the most fevered supports of Israel actually undermine Israel's existance by raising topics a smarter person might steer clear of.


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## ima (Feb 25, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Israel had been named 4000 yrs ago... Christians know this
> ...



Why not go back a couple of more thousand years? 6000 years ago, God gave the earth to adam and eve when he booted them from eden. So that means the whole world belongs to white christians.


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## Roudy (Feb 25, 2013)

Saigon said:


> I don't know why Roudy always posts the same quotes - for anyone who has actually followed this issue closely the idea that Syrians and Saudi Arabians initially opposed Palestinian interests for their own purposes is hardly a new or revolutionary one.
> 
> It's like asking an Indian if he supports an independent Kashmir.


No thanks, I'll take what the Arabs themselves said at the time and "Palestinian" Zuhair Muhsen who was the PLO chief said over your hogwash.


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## Saigon (Feb 25, 2013)

Roudy - 

I would think there is very, very little chance that you would be able to understand this anyway, as to do so requires a reasonable understanding of the events taking place in the Arab World in the 1960's. Issues to do with Nasserism, the Ba'ath Party and the aborted Syrian-Egyptian union are all key here, for instance. 

I'm happy to explain it to you, but I assume you'd rather not know the details.


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## Roudy (Feb 25, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Israel had been named 4000 yrs ago... Christians know this
> ...


It is a wonder how an ignorant fool continues to lie and distort day after day.


How Did the Land of Israel Become "Palestine"?

In the First Century CE, the Romans crushed the independent kingdom of Judea. After the failed rebellion of Bar Kokhba in the Second Century CE, the Roman Emperor Hadrian determined to wipe out the identity of Israel-Judah-Judea. Therefore, he took the name Palastina and imposed it on all the Land of Israel. At the same time, he changed the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina.
The History of Palestine

Thousands of years before the Romans invented "Palastina" the land had been known as "Canaan". The Canaanites had many tiny city-states, each one at times independent and at times a vassal of an Egyptian or Hittite king. The Canaanites never united into a state. After the Exodus from Egypt &#8212; probably in the Thirteenth Century BCE but perhaps earlier &#8212; the Children of Israel settled in the land of Canaan. There they formed first a tribal confederation, and then the Biblical kingdoms of Israel and Judah, and the post-Biblical kingdom of Judea.

Israel-Judah-Judea has the only united, independent, sovereign nation-state that ever existed in "Palestine" west of the Jordan River.

From the beginning of history to this day, Israel-Judah-Judea has the only united, independent, sovereign nation-state that ever existed in "Palestine" west of the Jordan River. (In Biblical times, Ammon, Moab and Edom as well as Israel had land east of the Jordan, but they disappeared in antiquity and no other nation took their place until the British invented Trans-Jordan in the 1920s.) In 1099, Christian Crusaders from Europe conquered Palestina-Falastin. After 1099, it was never again under Arab rule. The Christian Crusader kingdom was politically independent, but never developed a national identity. It remained a military outpost of Christian Europe, and lasted less than 100 years. Thereafter, Palestine was joined to Syria as a subject province first of the Mameluks, ethnically mixed slave-warriors whose center was in Egypt, and then of the Ottoman Turks, whose capital was in Istanbul.

During the First World War, the British took Palestine from the Ottoman Turks. At the end of the war, the Ottoman Empire collapsed and among its subject provinces "Palestine" was assigned to the British, to govern temporarily as a mandate from the League of Nations.


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## Roudy (Feb 25, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> I would think there is very, very little chance that you would be able to understand this anyway, as to do so requires a reasonable understanding of the events taking place in the Arab World in the 1960's. Issues to do with Nasserism, the Ba'ath Party and the aborted Syrian-Egyptian union are all key here, for instance.
> 
> I'm happy to explain it to you, but I assume you'd rather not know the details.


I understand it very clearly. You are a liar.  Arabs attacked Israel to destroy it, not to create a Palestinian state (by your own admission, even), because they thought the term Palestinian was a Zionist invention, and thought it was a myth.  The Arabs who today call themselves Palestinian considered themselves Egyptian Arabs, or Syrian Arabs, or just Arabs, BUT NEVER "PALESTINIAN", to call an Arab by that name would be considered an insult because it meant JEW.  

But if you want to keep spouting your lies and BS go ahead,  they provide good entertainment.


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## Saigon (Feb 25, 2013)

Roudy - 

You understand nothing, as I imagine you probably realise yourself - which is why you so often descend into foul-mouthed ranting and so rarely post anything on-topic. 

I am always happy to explain details as best I can (I did study this subject in Israel, after all), and to refer you to books that would allow you to find correct information. 

For instance, on the topic of the modern usage of the term 'Palestine', I would suggest reading David Fromkinn's sublime 'Peace To End All Peace' which explains the details better than I can.


btw. Please try and avoid plagiarism. When posting text you didn't write - include the source and link.


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## Saigon (Feb 25, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



I'm still waiting to see these "errors, mistakes and lies".


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## Roudy (Feb 25, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> You understand nothing, as I imagine you probably realise yourself - which is why you so often descend into foul-mouthed ranting and so rarely post anything on-topic.
> 
> ...


You don't explain, you further lie.  Any educated person would know that the name Palestine was given to Israel by the invading Romans. That means the name Palestine did not exist prior to that era. Yet you keep repeating this garbage about ancient Palestinians as if it existed or had anything whatsoever to do with Arabs who invaded the land later on.


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## Saigon (Feb 25, 2013)

Roudy 




> Any educated person would know that the name Palestine was given to Israel by the invading Romans. That means the name Palestine did not exist prior to that era.



"The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece."

Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Source: Jacobson, David M. (February 1999). Weinstein, James M.. ed. "Palestine and Israel". Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research (The American Schools of Oriental Research)


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## irosie91 (Feb 25, 2013)

Fromkin is yet another prostituted word-monger who misses 
the real issue of  "PEACE TO END ALL PEACE"----which has its 
roots way back to the greeks who invented a mild form of 
fascism----(consider the imperialist ambition of alexander---which 
he learned from aristotle)      The romans ---as ever ---pillaged 
the greek genius and invented the monster which became the 
HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE-------with both europe and  "the islamic 
world"      its heirs   (think Reichs and Caliphates) 

    thue the END OF ALL PEACE ---the reichs and the caliphates


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## Saigon (Feb 25, 2013)

> Fromkin is yet another prostituted word-monger who misses
> the real issue...



Thr book has nothing to do with the Greeks, Romans or Alexander - it focuses on the crucial era of 1918 - 1930 and looks at how Palestinian nationalism developed, and why. 

The book was a finalist for both the National Book Critics Circle Award and the Pulitzer Prize. Fromkin has written seven books in total, with his most recent in 2007, The King and the Cowboy: Theodore Roosevelt and Edward the Seventh, Secret Partners.

A graduate of the University of Chicago and the University of Chicago Law School, he is University Professor, Professor of History, International Relations, and Law at Boston University, where he was also the Director of The Frederick S. Pardee Center for the Study of the Long-Range Future. He is also a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.

David Fromkin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's also required reading in most Israeli university history courses.


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## irosie91 (Feb 25, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > Any educated person would know that the name Palestine was given to Israel by the invading Romans. That means the name Palestine did not exist prior to that era.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




correct   saigon---the INTENSELY  ethnocentric  greeks termed the entire 
land mass between phoenicia   (one of their ports of trade)    to the northern 
part of the land just west of CANAAN ----(kinda like ashdot)   another 
of their ports of trade according to the  AEGEAN PEOPLE who colonized 
the ASHDOT-------to wit  THE PHILISTINES      What else is new?    
Plato referred to all  NON GREEK SPEAKING PEOPLE AS  
BARBARIANS     generally useful as slaves----or  "LIVING TOOLS"

  ie---the term  Palestinians as applied to the mixed mess of migrants 
from all over the middle east from arabia to egypt and all over the 
mediterrnean area from greece to turkey  in the past 2000 years as 
PALESTINIANS   and THEREFORE OWNERS OF JUDEA/ISRAEL is----
to say the least--      a bit silly.      In fact    what should be called 
palestine in honor of  HERODOTUS   today is   SYRIA ----syria has the 
most greek  DNA  today     The PHILISTINES for whom the greeks 
named the ENTIRE AREA-----left Ashdot-----but the greek derived 
people actually stuck around in Syria  and became christians.
SAD for them-----arabs invaded in the seventh century  CE.    Well---
actually ----Lots of the people who today call themselves   
Palestinians-----were-----in recent history      SYRIANS  ----so the 
real answer to the problem is   RETURN THE REAL  "palestina" 
to them----to wit    SYRIA


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## Hossfly (Feb 25, 2013)

Fact or myth?

Palestinians warn Obama over Temple Mount visit - Israel Today | Israel News


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## Saigon (Feb 25, 2013)

Rosie - 



> what should be called
> palestine in honor of HERODOTUS today is SYRIA



Palestine is not Syria - Herotodus refers to Palestine as a district of (Southern) Syria in the 5th century BCE, which makes sense. What we know of as Syria today has always been north and east of Mt Hermon - not south or west of it. 

The facts are fairly clear - an area known as Palestine existed as far back as the 5th century BCE. It is aguably more clearly defined in ancient history than Lebanon, a country whose existance few here seem to question. 

We also know that Palestinians are genetically distinct from Syrians and Egyptians, and spoke of themselves as a distinct people from at least as far back as 1920 (and arguably from 1843). Again, this distinction is arguably more defined than that of the Lebanese.


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## irosie91 (Feb 25, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Rosie -
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Your point?     there is no question Herodotus would make reference to parts of 
SYRIA   and   a bit to ASHDOT----since that is where the  GREEKS/AEGEANS LIVED      
The fact is that both the  PHONECIAN    greek/aegean    and the  ASHDOD  greek/
aegean    COMMUNITIES OF PEOPLE  are no longer extant as distinct 
communities of people------they were  entirely assimilated into other  "nations" 
---although  it is likely  some passed thru or even resided
 the as aliens in Judea and Israel    ----back then.    Now they 
are no longer extant in the same way that the  Trojans are no longer 
extant   (which does not suggest that some trojan DNA  did not get 
passed into the gene pool of mankind)       By  500 BC ---when a greek 
historian was talking about some fairly small colonies of  aegean/greeks 
in Northern africa------Israel/Judea was well established---being screwed 
over by wars between the sorrounding super powers which included 
syria -----incessantly.   (the holiday CHANNUKAH  recalls the SYRIAN/
GREEK attacks----it was well established before   "JESUS"  was born )

Israel/Judea was savaged by ROMANS---christianized by force---
in the seventh century  --savaged by ARABS   islamized by force 
and the  people of the nation   Israel/Judea maintained language, 
religion and customs  in  "exile"  for the 1700 years following 
its defeat by the roman  TITUS and his gross vandalism of national 
landmarks and treasures     MANY of its cities were RENAMED 
by the roman vandals-----the nation became  PALESTINA ---
Jerusalem became   AEOLIA  CAPITOLINA      Shechem 
became  NEOPOLIS----etc etc    -----no arabic yet spoken 
in  PALESTINA       no arab community.    in the area until ---
the seventh century   AD

if you plant----CAPSAICIN in your garden---of various strains----
they cross pollinate ------your grasp of anthropology and 
population genetics is -----as good as that of a  green bell 
pepper


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## Saigon (Feb 25, 2013)

> Your point?



The facts are fairly clear - an area known as Palestine existed as far back as the 5th century BCE. It is aguably more clearly defined in ancient history than Lebanon, a country whose existance few here seem to question.

We also know that Palestinians are genetically distinct from Syrians and Egyptians, and spoke of themselves as a distinct people from at least as far back as 1920 (and arguably from 1843). Again, this distinction is arguably more defined than that of the Lebanese.

In other words - accept that the Palestinian people exist, accept that a place called Palestine has existed since antiquity, and accept that they have a fair and valid historical claim to at least some of the land in the Levant.


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## irosie91 (Feb 25, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Rosie -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


'


TODAY   the people called  "PALESTINIANS"   are a  different people from 
the people called  "SYRIANS"   today sufficient to explain 
the minor genetic differences between them     Long after 
Herodotus  credited the lands of syria and the land west of Israel for 
their  Aegean/greek populations----there were FURTHER POPULATION 

shifts     in both syria and ----north Gaza and Palestina.      
 your comment indicates an even more 
hopeless situation in your potential for an understanding of 
population genetics  -----learn this phrase 
    "GENETIC ISOLATION"

   learn this important historic innovation----
the GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST


got that?  -----ok   ANY POPULATION that does not screw 
each others members----eventually developes 
a gene pool that varies from the population it does 
not screw      Syrians and Greeks  SCREWED LOTS  
over the past  2500 years.      Syrians are FULL OF GREEK 
DNA -----the arabs of  PALESTINA ---especially the BEDOUINS 
 are far far far less  GREEK      What the arabs of palestina 
are----with reference to GENE  POOL----is generally bedouin


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## irosie91 (Feb 25, 2013)

PS   I should add----that various PARTS of the arab population of 
"palestina"    vary in their gene pool thing depending in what part 
of palestina they lived----or where their grandparents lived 50 years 
before.       Why do you bring up dates less than 100 years ago----
the assertions of the   historic revisionists  are    5000 year old things
----you biggest fan-----sherri ------insisted that  "PALESTINE"  as a nation of 
people which is the SAME as the current nation of people called 
PALESTINE----- far precedes even the  WORD   "ISRAEL"


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## Roudy (Feb 25, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > Your point?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ha ha ha!  We don't need to accept your BS, but if you wish to find those who might be warmer to your claims, may I suggest the closest mosque or neo Nazi gathering in proximity to your location.

 The fact that the Romans invaded Israel and changed its name to Paletine is undisputed history. And it's occupants both before and after the invasion had absolutely nothing to do with today's Arabs who call themselves Palestinians. By their own admission, they have latched on and stolen an identity to defeat the Jews. Had there not been an Israel and the land divided among Jordan, Syria, and Egypt, there would never have been a Palestinian movement nor woud there be this mythical bullshit about an "ancient Palestinian people".


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## Saigon (Feb 25, 2013)

Roudy - 

Try and post with a little dignity. 

Go back and acknowledge a couple of the errors of yours that I corrected - and ideally learn from the experience. Post #385.

Everything we've discussed recently has been sourced, linked and can be confirmed from a dozen sources. Continually repeating the myths that have just been completely disproven does not build a case.


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## irosie91 (Feb 25, 2013)

wrong again   saigon---none of your links provided evidence 'for your silly assertions  or those of your yes-slut --
sherri        You make a huge issue of the fact that a  GREEK 
(known to be so ethnocentric that they considered any human who did not speak greek---to be--less than human) 
preferred to consider only the places in the middle east USED 
and colonized by greeks as  "places"      ---in fact an historian who lived at the same time the greeks of SYRIA were actively 
in the process of trying to genocide  Israel out of existence ---
  >>>>>then came who    <trumpet flourish.....ta ta ta>  
  JUDAH MACCABBEEEEE      yaaaayyyyaaaaa
   <taunting>   wicked wicked wicked antiochus ----booo  booo

  historical note----the armies of antiochus used ELEPHANTS 
as tanks ----against the  <yaaaayyyy>>>> ARMIES OF THE 
   MACCABBEESSSS     <yAAAAAYYYYA>    boo..sherri

gee you are dim   SAIGON


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## Hossfly (Feb 25, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Fact or myth?
> 
> Palestinians warn Obama over Temple Mount visit - Israel Today | Israel News


Imagine if Muslims were told that in America they couldn't throw their prayer rugs down on the streets and pray like many actually do here, but would have to go inside a building.  They would probably start rioting.  Moishe Dayan certainly made a big mistake handing over the Temple Mount to the Muslims.


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## Roudy (Feb 25, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> Try and post with a little dignity.
> 
> ...


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 25, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > Your point?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Did anyone deny them a bit of land IN THE LEVANT???     I have VERY FREQUENTLY 
INSISTED  that a nice little countries can easily be carved out of a bit of the southern 
part of Lebanon,  syria and ---parts of transjordan that should make them 
VERY HAPPY----if they need more there is no reason why they cannot have 
Gaza and Sharm el Shaykh----no one is really using the places I mentioned 
for much of anything----and  -----getting the syrians out of the golan where 
they so enjoyed tossing bombs on Israeli villages below is also a good 
idea       All people from the Levant---deserve a bit of the Levant.  
It is true that ---the place was overrun by arabs in the 
seventh century  CE-----but they MARRIED IN---and they 
really cannot be asked to  GO BACK


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## ForeverYoung436 (Feb 25, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > Your point?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lebanon is a very ancient culture.  It was called Phoenicia or Sidon in Biblical times.  Solomon brought cedars from Lebanon to build the Temple, from his friend, Hiram King of Sidon.  Later on, a Phoenician princess called Jezebel, became a bitchy Queen of Israel. In the last century, the Maronite Christian majority of Lebanon were slaughtered by the bloodthirsty Muslims, who took over the tiny country.


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## Jroc (Feb 25, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Israel had been named 4000 yrs ago... Christians know this
> ...



Sorry but the name Israel has been used continually since biblical times. The Jews are Israel and now we have our land back&#8230; An observant Jews says Shema every day and have for more than 3000 yrs and counting


"Hear oh *Israel *the L-rd our G-d the L-rd is one"

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfF6-TkAnBM]???? ????? - shema israel?? - YouTube[/ame]


Arabs have no such connection to Israel...Never have....Never will


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## Jroc (Feb 25, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > > Your point?
> ...



Siagon seems to think Arabs on one side of the Jordan river are diffeernt from Arabs on the other side


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## Roudy (Feb 25, 2013)

Jroc said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


Oh it's more than that. He's hijacked a name which never meant Arabs, and suddenly given it ancient Arab associations, going back to the Stone Age, Ice Age, and maybe even during the Crustaceous and Jurrasic periods!  

Yup, even *before* dinasours roamed the earth, the Palestinian Arabs were right there in "Palestine", terrorising the bacteria and other life forms during earth's early days.


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## theliq (Feb 25, 2013)

Jroc said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...



Well it just goes to show what a complete CRETIN and BAFFOON YOU ARE,

The Palestinians are completely different from the Jordanians who originated from Saudi Arabia.

Such Ignorance could only be perpetuated by a ZIONIST IDIOT or are YOU just a WILFUL LIAR


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## theliq (Feb 25, 2013)

Jroc said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



NUT TROLL


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## theliq (Feb 25, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > > Your point?
> ...



COMPLETE NUTTY TROLL


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## toastman (Feb 25, 2013)

When all your arguments fail miserably, start calling people trolls. It's called theliq mentality  hahaha


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## theliq (Feb 25, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Fact or myth?
> 
> Palestinians warn Obama over Temple Mount visit - Israel Today | Israel News



O Hoss,I just can't put you in the same category as those NUT TROLLS Jroc,Roudy and Rosie......YET..your friend steve

RESOLUTION 181 Continued.

In this process,most of Palestine's indigenous population were expelled and,together with their decendents,became numbers in an UNRWA register.Today, they total 5.5 Million people living in miserable refugee camps in Lebanon(12 Camps),Syria(10 Camps+3 Unofficial Sites),Jordan(10 Camps),West Bank(19 Camps) and Gaza(8 Camps).

These Palestinian refugees hold the record of being the longest suffering and largest refugee population in the WORLD.(Thanks to the Zionists and Jews)  Yet,even within these Camps,they remain dignified and determined that, through the application of International Law, THEIR RIGHT TO RETURN TO THEIR repeat THEIR HOMES WILL BE UPHELD>

By June 1948, approximately 370,000 Palestinians were expelled from their homes.By the end of that year the number totalled an amazing 780,000!!!!!!!!!!!  Josef Weitz declared,at a cabinet meeting chaired by Ben-Gurion on 18th of August 1948, that 286 villages had been "CLEARED"(sounds like a Hitlerism don't it) or "EVACUATED"(sounds like a Himmlerism don't it) and about 3 Million DUNUMS had been left behind by their Palestinian  owners as they FLED the ZIONIST TERROR.(with compound interest that would be a fair SUM today).  The last of the villages to be cleared was Al-Majdal(later renamed ASHKELON by Israel) Note here that the Israelis BULLDOZED all the Villages,and their GUILT they though could be COVERED UP,this led to generations of Israeli school children being told THAT THERE WAS NO ONE LIVING IN THESE AREA PRIOR TO JEWISH SETTLEMENT.....this INDEMIC LIE continues today.....as a final INSULT to the Palestinian People............This  INDELIBLE PALESTINIAN BLOOD ON THE ZIONISTS HANDS, CAN NEVER BE WASH AWAY......AND THIS GUILT IS PART OF ISRAELS DESTINY.

Within 6 months,ZIONIST TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS went on a RAMPAGE EXPELLING,MURDERING and MASSACRING Palestinians and destroying their homes and villages. They EXPELLED 452,789 Palestinian men,women,children and infants, from the areas allocated to the Jews in the Partition Plan,and a further 347,222 were uprooted from areas beyond the allocatedboundries. All in all 800,000 Palestinians were EXPELLED from their homes, 530 of their villages destroyed and 11 of their urban neighbourhoods were emptied.  ONE CAN ONLY IMAGINE AT THE MINDSET OF THESE TERRORIST ZIONIST JEWS.....it must have been reminicent of the NAZIS some 10 years earlier.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Massacres, like that at Deir-Yaseen,spread fear and terror in the hearts of Palestinian families and forced them to take flight.

The reasons for this MASS EXODUS(how Ironic ) were given by the Israeli Defence Force Intelligence as follows.............Haganah Operations (55%), Irgun Operations (15%) and whispering campaigns of Psychological Warfare(14%),so it is clear the Jewish intent to eliminate the Palestinians......It is this point that if the head of Israel (NET AND YAR WHO at this moment) ever steps foot in Belgium he will be served a Warrant for his ARREST,and taken to the Hague,War Crimes Tribunal.

Chaim Weizmann later commented that this Palestinian Exodus had been "A MIRACULOUS CLEARING OF THE LAND.....THE MIRACULOUS SIMPLIFICATION OF ISRAELS TASK"  well he would of know that,considering he instigated it all.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And so it was...the Zionist dream of transfer and ETHNIC CLEANSING of Palestine came to fruition with the Palestinian Exodus of 1948 when more than 80% of the inhabitants of what became ISRAEL were murdered,expelled and became REFUGEES until this day. Some 140,000 Palestinians had remained behind in what became Israel and were allowed by Israel to stay.

THE BORDERS OF THIS NEW STATE OF ISRAEL HAD BEEN INCREASED FROM THE 55.5% of the Mandatory Palestine(Under the Partition Plan) TO 77%......ISRAEL HAS BEEN EXPANDING EVER SINCE.


An  INDICTMENT  Indeed


----------



## theliq (Feb 25, 2013)

toastman said:


> When all your arguments fail miserably, start calling people trolls. It's called theliq mentality  hahaha



Ooops Folks I forgot the Biggest Wanker of All....the TOASTMAN TROLL NUTCASE


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 25, 2013)

theliq said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Fact or myth?
> ...


Why, Stevie, it is very easy for me to just put you down as a nut.  Meanwhile, have you completely forgotten that the Arab leaders told these people to leave so that they wouldn't be in the way when they got at the Jews and then the people could return when the Jews were slaughtered.  The Arabs that actually had money and property stayed and are now citizens of Israel.  Isn't it strange, Stevie, that after World War II millions of displaced people had to move thousands of miles from their original homes, learn a new language and culture, and get on with their lives, some very, very successfully.  The Arabs from the area had to move not that far from their home and certainly didn't have to learn a new language or culture.  Did their fellow Arabs really have to keep them in camps instead of using them as a thorn in Israel's side?  No doubt you don't shed any tears for the Hindus whose ancestors actually lived for thousands of years on that chunk of land called Pakistan which was carved out of India.   Why should you since no Jews were involved in that?


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## Jroc (Feb 25, 2013)

theliq said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



Get a grip loon....




> *70% of Jordanian citizens are of Palestinian (non-Bedouin) descent*. Hence, as the late King Hussein correctly stated, Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan. It is therefore wrong, historically, morally and politically, to establish a second Palestinian Arab state on any part of the 24% of Palestine that is Israel and the West Bank. Such a state has no legal, moral or historical right to exist.


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## theliq (Feb 25, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



You must have read what I said Hoss but you cannot comprehend,Waffle on into your pit of Stupidity.

You may have a few TROLLS incouraging you....I always thought you were better than that. The WORLD are fully aware of what the Jews DID......we can't be bothered really with such a Motely Lying Group of a few Million self opinionated,self centred and ignorant Bull Shit Artists........you can fool yourselves for ever but you are a Stained People because of your TERRORIST past......I suppose with such a weird Mob, you can be Proud....Fcuk knows why.....trouble is NO ONE TRUSTS YOU


see you around NOT.....go back to the TROLLS........theliq always exposing the truth of Liars.....that why you all react the way you do..IT'S CALLED GUILT JUST ADMIT WHAT YOU ARE


----------



## theliq (Feb 25, 2013)

Jroc said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Jroc said:
> ...



Loon is better than  a Murdering Bastard


----------



## toastman (Feb 25, 2013)

theliq said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



Well at least you admit you're a loon. But you completey veered off from his post. Do you have any way of contradicting what he said, because if not it looks like you just got owned very badly. Seems like you're a bit embaressed. SS LIQ HAHAHA 
now go back in the corner and think about what you've done


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## Roudy (Feb 25, 2013)

theliq said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


Wow, you do realize that you just proved how ignorant you are?  Majority of Jordanians ARE PALESTINIAN Arabs. in fact Jordan's Queen Noor, is a Palestinian. 

Again, common denominator for Pali supporters = ignorance, illiteracy, inability for rational thought, ingrained bigotry.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 25, 2013)

Roudy - 

Please stop running away from your own messes. 

There are now a number of issues on which you have been proven clearly wrong. Please acknowledge those issues, or I will simply keep re-posting them.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 25, 2013)

Quote:





> Any educated person would know that the name Palestine was given to Israel by the invading Romans. That means the name Palestine did not exist prior to that era.



"The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece."

Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Source: Jacobson, David M. (February 1999). Weinstein, James M.. ed. "Palestine and Israel". Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research (The American Schools of Oriental Research)

Roudy - Do you now underatand that your point is wrong?


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## Roudy (Feb 25, 2013)

theliq said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...


Did you get a flat tire on your house today?  

Geez. Talk about NUTJOB trolls, you beat the cake, buddy.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 25, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...



Roudy - Please acknowledge that my comments were correct - not the "lies" you claimed they were.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 25, 2013)

Jroc - 

While you are correct that more than 50% of Jordanian residents are ethinically Palestinian - perhaps a half million of those would return to their homes in the West Bank should a Palestinian state ever be created.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 25, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your own link from Wikipedia very clearly says that the Romans invaded ancient Israel Judeah and Samaria and renamed it to Syria Palestina. The fact that you have no intellectual honesty to mention that, and fail to even post a working link for readers to see that means that your are a terrorist ass kicker wo will lie and say anything on behalf of the Islamists.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 25, 2013)

Roudy - 

The link was posted on one of the previous occasions when you ran away from the comment. 

This is the complete citation:

^ Jacobson, David M. (February 1999). Weinstein, James M.. ed. "Palestine and Israel". Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research (The American Schools of Oriental Research) (313): 65&#8211;74. ISSN 0003097X. JSTOR 1357617. ""The earliest occurrence of this name in a Greek text is in the mid-fifth century b.c., Histories of Herodotus, where it is applied to the area of the Levant between Phoenicia and Egypt."..."The first known occurrence of the Greek word Palaistine is in the Histories of Herodotus, written near the mid-fifth century B.C. Palaistine Syria, or simply Palaistine, is applied to what may be identified as the southern part of Syria, comprising the region between Phoenicia and Egypt. Although some of Herodotus' references to Palestine are compatible with a narrow definition of the coastal strip of the Land of Israel, it is clear that Herodotus does call the "whole land by the name of the coastal strip."..."It is believed that Herodotus visited Palestine in the fifth decade of the fifth century B.C."..."In the earliest Classical literature references to Palestine generally applied to the Land of Israel in the wider sense."" and David Jacobson (May/Jun 2001). "When Palestine Meant Israel". BAR 27:03. Retrieved 2 March 2012. "As early as the Histories of Herodotus, written in the second half of the fifth century B.C.E., the term Palaistinê is used to describe not just the geographical area where the Philistines lived, but the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt&#8212;in other words, the Land of Israel. Herodotus, who had traveled through the area, would have had firsthand knowledge of the land and its people. Yet he used Palaistinê to refer not to the Land of the Philistines, but to the Land of Israel"

Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please acknolwedge that you understand this, so that we can avoid you simply re-posting myths.

No one has ever disputed the Roman invasion.


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## Roudy (Feb 25, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


Your examples do not apply. The Palestinians are Arabs who suddenly changed their history into a history of other peoples. It would be the equivalent of Italians calling themselves ancient Greeks. And the Arab Palestinians do not go back to ancient times in The land of Israel, the Philistines do, WHICH HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ARABS OR PALESTINIANS, nor were they Semitic.

  It's just another piece hogwash and sack of lies that you repeat constantly and shameless because you think everybody is as stupid and ignorant as you are. But then again, those are the qualities of a typical terrorist supporting scumbag.


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## Saigon (Feb 25, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Your examples do not apply. The Palestinians are Arabs who suddenly changed their history into a history of other peoples. It would be the equivalent of Italians calling themselves ancient Greeks. And the Arab Palestinians do not go back to ancient times in The land of Israel, the Philistines do, WHICH HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ARABS OR PALESTINIANS, nor were they Semitic.
> .



Right. 

So even though you have just acknolwedged that the name 'Palestine' was used in the 5th Centy BCE, and even though we have seen that modern Palestinian genetic code links Palestinians to that land back through millenia - you do not feel they have a strong case for statehood?

I can only assume that you simply have not understood the examples given.

Let's be clear - there was no such thing as Italy in 1950 and there never had been. There was no such thing as Germany in 1850 and there never had been. There were no German people, no Italian people, and never had been. 

Please explain why Italy should be a state and Palestine should not.


btw. I am sure everyone on this board realises that you descend into foul-mouthed rants when you know you have lost. I suggest you spare yourself the humiliation of proving it another time.


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## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> The link was posted on one of the previous occasions when you ran away from the comment.
> 
> ...


Wow, you really are dumb as a doorknob aren't you?  "philistine" is not the same as Palestine, and Philistines have zero zilch nada to do with Palestinians. Other than the Romans used the name "Philistine" to humiliate the Israelites, by changing its name to Palestine after they conquered it.   



> As early as the Histories of Herodotus, written in the second half of the fifth century B.C.E., the term Palaistinê is used to describe not just the geographical *area where the Philistines lived*, but the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt&#8212;in other words, the Land of Israel. Herodotus, who had traveled through the area, would have had firsthand knowledge of the land and its people. Yet he used Palaistinê to refer not to the Land of the *Philistines*, but to the Land of Israel



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_Israel_and_Judah

In 63*BCE the Roman general Pompey conquered Jerusalem and made the Jewish kingdom a client of Rome. In 40&#8211;39, Herod the Great was appointed King of the Jews by the Roman Senate, and in 6*CE the last ethnarch of Judea was deposed by the emperor Augustus and his territories were combined with Idumea and Samaria and annexed as Iudaea Province under direct Roman administration.[70] The name Judea (Iudaea) was removed after the revolt of Simon Bar Kochba in 135*CE, after which the area was called Syria Palaestina, (Greek: &#928;&#945;&#955;&#945;&#953;&#963;&#964;&#943;&#957;&#951;, Palaistin&#275;; Latin: Palaestina.)
[edit]


Iron Age I (1200*BCE - 1000*BCE)

The Merneptah stele (JE 31408), bearing the first record of the name Israel (Cairo Museum)
The name Israel first appears in the stele of the Egyptian pharaoh Merneptah c. 1209*BCE, "Israel is laid waste and his seed is no more."[17] This "Israel" was a cultural and probably political entity of the central highlands, well enough established to be perceived by the Egyptians as a possible challenge to their hegemony, but an ethnic group rather than an organised state;[18] Archaeologist Paula McNutt says: "It is probably ... during Iron Age I [that] a population began to identify itself as 'Israelite'," differentiating itself from its neighbours via prohibitions on intermarriage, an emphasis on family history and genealogy, and religion.[19]


Iron Age II (1000*BCE - 550*BCE)

A reconstructed Israelite house, 10th&#8211;7th century BCE. Eretz Israel Museum, Tel Aviv.
Unusually favourable climatic conditions in the first two centuries of Iron Age II brought about an expansion of population, settlements and trade throughout the region.[26] In the central highlands this resulted in unification in a kingdom with the city of Samaria as its capital,[26] possibly by the second half of the 10th century BCE when an inscription of the Egyptian pharaoh Shoshenq I, the biblical Shishak, records a series of campaigns directed at the area.[27] Israel had clearly emerged by the middle of the 9th century BCE, when the Assyrian king Shalmaneser III names "Ahab the Israelite" among his enemies at the battle of Qarqar (853). At this time Israel was apparently engaged in a three-way contest with Damascus and Tyre for control of the Jezreel Valley and Galilee in the north, and with Moab, Ammon and Damascus in the east for control of Gilead;[26] the Mesha stele (c. 830), left by a king of Moab, celebrates his success in throwing off the oppression of the "House of Omri" (i.e. Israel). It bears what is generally thought to be the earliest extra-biblical Semitic reference to the name Yahweh (YHWH), whose temple goods were plundered by Mesha and brought before his own god Kemosh.[28] French scholar André Lemaire has reconstructed a portion of line 31 of the stele as mentioning the "House of David".,[27][29]

The development of Israelite monotheism was a gradual process which began with the normal beliefs and practices of the ancient world.[71] The religion of the Israelites of Iron Age I, like the Canaanite faith from which it evolved[72] and many other Ancient Near Eastern religions, was based on the cult of the ancestors and the worship of family gods (the "gods of the fathers").[73] The major deities were not numerous &#8211; El, Asherah, and Yahweh, with Baal as a fourth god, and perhaps Shamash (the sun) in the early period.[74] By the early monarchy El and Yahweh had become unified and Asherah did not continue as a separate state cult,[74] although she continued to be popular at a community level until Persian times.[75] Yahweh, later the national god of both Israel and Judah seems to have originated in Edom and Midian in southern Canaan, and may have been brought north to Israel by the Kenites and Midianites at an early stage.[76] With the emergence of monarchy at the beginning of Iron Age II the king promoted his own family god, Yahweh, as the god of the kingdom, but beyond the royal court religion continued to be both polytheistic and family-centered, as it was also for other societies in the Ancient Near East.[77]


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## theliq (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Jroc said:
> ...



Of course I know all that and your question was,that Jordan was like ISRAEL...the Hashimites came from Saudi Arabia and Palestinians from Palestine......the growth of Palestinians in Jordan is the RESULT of THE JEWS EXPELLING PALESTINIANS IN 1948,and their decendents.

I note you never commented on the results of RESOLUTION 181........When the Zionists became like their collaborators the NAZIS.........also now known as BLOOD RESOLUTION 181.........so much for idiocy,ignorance,totally irrational thought...I have to tell you that Palestinians have one of the highest rates of matriculation to UNIVERSITY, in the world.

You Guys are just a pack of BOZOS..and pretty hopeless ones at that.....what's it like to be THICK......


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## Saigon (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy - 

No one is talking about Philistines. 

The events we are talking about here pre-dated the Roman invasion by centuries. 

No one is questioning how old the name 'Israel' is. 

Try and post with a little self-respect.


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## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

It's quite funny they steal the name Palestine, then these fake Arabs turn themselves into non semetic sea peoples of ancient origin!  Quite a transformation and historical magical "hat trick"!  Is there anything that's REAL with Palestinians?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines

It has been theorized that the latter Philistines originated among the "Sea Peoples". Modern archaeology has also suggested early cultural links with the Mycenaean world in Greece. Though the Philistines adopted local Canaanite culture and language before leaving any written texts (and later adopted the Aramaic language), an Indo-European origin has been suggested for a handful of known Philistine words that survived as loanwords in Hebrew.
[edit]Philistine language

Nothing is known for certain about the language of the Philistines.[2] There is some limited evidence in favor of the assumption that the Philistines did originally speak some Indo-European language. A number of Philistine-related words found in the Bible are not Semitic, and can in some cases, with reservations, be traced back to Proto-Indo-European roots. For example, the Philistine word for captain, 'seren', may be related to the Greek word tyrannos (thought by linguists to have been borrowed by the Greeks from an Anatolian language, such as Luwian or Lydian[5]). Some of the Philistine names, such as Goliath, Achish, and Phicol, appear to be of non-Semitic origin, and Indo-European etymologies have been suggested. Recently, an inscription dating to the late 10th/early 9th centuries BC with two names, very similar to one of the suggested etymologies of the popular Philistine name Goliath (Lydian Alyattes, or perhaps Greek Kalliades) was found in the excavations at Gath. The appearance of additional non-Semitic names in Philistine inscriptions from later stages of the Iron Age is an additional indication of the non-Semitic origins of this group.
[edit]


----------



## toastman (Feb 26, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> No one is talking about Philistines.
> 
> ...



Hey Saigon. If no one is talking about Philistines, then why so the Palestinians themselves refer to them as Philistines!


----------



## Saigon (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy - 

You are running away again.

Please acknolwedge the points made earlier, or I will simply keep re-posting them.

The points raised in 420, 423, 425.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 26, 2013)

toastman said:


> Hey Saigon. If no one is talking about Philistines, then why so the Palestinians themselves refer to them as Philistines!



Well, show us what you mean and let's take a look.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> No one is talking about Philistines.
> 
> ...


The events predating Roman invasion have to do with Philistine which you conveniently. LIED when you said "they" can be traced to Ashdod blah blah blah.  "THEY" the PHILISTINES are not Arab Palestinians, who have no history in Ashdod or anything in ancient Israel....STUPIDO.  

You just want to lie over and over until you find another ignorant like yourself, such as Sherri and Liq with enough hate to buy your shit, no?  Ha ha ha.

What a sucker.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy - 



> The events predating Roman invasion have to do with Philistine which you conveniently. LIED when you said it "they" can be traced to Ashdod blah blah blah. "THEY" the PHILISTINES are not Arab Palestinians, who have no history in Ashdod or anything in ancient Israel....STUPIDO.



No, they don't refer to Philistines.  

And again....

""The earliest occurrence of this name in a Greek text is in the mid-fifth century b.c., Histories of Herodotus, where it is applied to the area of the Levant between Phoenicia and Egypt."..."The first known occurrence of the Greek word *Palaistine *is in the Histories of Herodotus, written near the mid-fifth century B.C. *Palaistine* Syria, or simply *Palaistine,* is applied to what may be identified as the southern part of Syria, comprising the region between Phoenicia and Egypt. Although some of Herodotus' references to Palestine are compatible with a narrow definition of the coastal strip of the Land of Israel, it is clear that Herodotus does call the "whole land by the name of the coastal strip."..."It is believed that Herodotus visited *Palestine* in the fifth decade of the fifth century B.C.".


btw. "Ignorant" is not a noun. It's an adjective.


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## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> You are running away again.
> 
> ...


The points you made?  You just tried to lie by tying Philistine history or Arab Palestinian history. Your whole premise of Arab Palestinians going back ages is based in Philistine history, ASSWIPE. Who do you think you're fooling?  YOU HAVE NOTHING, NADA. 

Now crawl back under your rock before I give you another beating, mental midget!


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## Saigon (Feb 26, 2013)

> You just tried to lie by tying Philistine history or Arab Palestinian history



And again....

""The earliest occurrence of this name in a Greek text is in the mid-fifth century b.c., Histories of Herodotus, where it is applied to the area of the Levant between Phoenicia and Egypt."..."The first known occurrence of the Greek word Palaistine is in the Histories of Herodotus, written near the mid-fifth century B.C. Palaistine Syria, or simply Palaistine, is applied to what may be identified as the southern part of Syria, comprising the region between Phoenicia and Egypt. Although some of Herodotus' references to Palestine are compatible with a narrow definition of the coastal strip of the Land of Israel, it is clear that Herodotus does call the "whole land by the name of the coastal strip."..."It is believed that Herodotus visited Palestine in the fifth decade of the fifth century B.C.".


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## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WHICH MEANT PHILISTINE, DIP!  The same Wikipedia says the Romans changed Judeah to Syria Palestina in 63 AD.  So which is it, idiot?   Acknowledge you are fulla shit.

And again:

In 63*BCE the Roman general Pompey conquered Jerusalem and made the Jewish kingdom a client of Rome. In 40&#8211;39, Herod the Great was appointed King of the Jews by the Roman Senate, and in 6*CE the last ethnarch of Judea was deposed by the emperor Augustus and his territories were combined with Idumea and Samaria and annexed as Iudaea Province under direct Roman administration.[70] The name Judea (Iudaea) was removed after the revolt of Simon Bar Kochba in 135*CE, after which the area was called Syria Palaestina, (Greek: &#928;&#945;&#955;&#945;&#953;&#963;&#964;&#943;&#957;&#951;, Palaistin&#275;; Latin: Palaestina.)


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## toastman (Feb 26, 2013)

Saigon said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Saigon. If no one is talking about Philistines, then why so the Palestinians themselves refer to them as Philistines!
> ...



Its hard to post a link with my phone, but look at any video on youtube and when Palestinians or any Arab refers to Palestinians, they pronounce it Philistine. 
The reason I brought this up is because it seems like you said that the word Philistine has nothing to do with the issue. Could be I misunderstood you.


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## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

toastman said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


No, he's trying to be a clever liar by making ancient Philistine history and region, the same as Arab Palestinian history.


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## theliq (Feb 26, 2013)

toastman said:


> saigon said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



idiot


----------



## theliq (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy -
> ...



Bigger IDIOT


----------



## theliq (Feb 26, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > You just tried to lie by tying Philistine history or Arab Palestinian history
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Palestinians ARE NOT the Philistines......the Philistines fought with (THEN) David,later King David.......to over throw SAUL the leader of the Jews....David had Saul and his family slaughtered......the Philistines for their help were.......all the Males SLAUGHTERED and the women and children absorbed into the tribes of Israel....from that point on the PHILISTINES NO LONGER EXISTED.


by your premise Saigon re the location of the Philistines is completely right....... You realise that conversing with these Morons is Impossible because their knowledge is miniscule and totally corrupted.......I may have told you before, You should NEVER use the word Zionist and Truthfulness in the same sentence


----------



## theliq (Feb 26, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Jroc -
> 
> While you are correct that more than 50% of Jordanian residents are ethinically Palestinian - perhaps a half million of those would return to their homes in the West Bank should a Palestinian state ever be created.



Saigon I reckon well over 75% of the Jews in Israel are Foreigners......except the Palestinians who were there thousands of years before Jews relinquished any title to the Holy Land,when they ran away from the Romans...of COURSE THEY DID.


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## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

theliq said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


BAFFOON?  Only a buffoon would spell it as BAFFOON and of course what can we say about  "WILFUL"?  Was third grade the three hardest years of your life?


----------



## theliq (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...



But ALL JEWS ORIGINATED FROM ARABS,in Babylonia,shows how much you know about even your own history.Where on earth did you think you came from,you fool.


----------



## theliq (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Jroc said:
> ...



Flat Tyre,you silly SLOB, Yanks can never speak or spell properly..Total TWAT


----------



## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

theliq said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > > You just tried to lie by tying Philistine history or Arab Palestinian history
> ...


Did everybody read that nonsense?  

You know you're in trouble when ignoramus terrorist ass licker LIQ comes to your rescue. LOL


----------



## theliq (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Jroc said:
> ...



Easy 342 Employees,World Wide Business,LOSER.......Third Grade was Great,I NEVER KNEW WHAT A ZIONIST WAS but thanks for reminding me


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## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

theliq said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...


You spell tire, tyre?  Did you even graduate from elementary school?  I doubt it.


----------



## theliq (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...



You cannot pretend what you are not....tell me where do you Jews originate from?????


----------



## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

theliq said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...


Riiiiiiight. A legend in your own mind.  People like you are the reason they made the morning after pill.  Can I borrow your head for my rock garden?  Save the planet, kill yourself!


----------



## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

theliq said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...


Not from Arabs as you claimed. Ha ha ha!


----------



## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

How's the flat "tyre" on your house doing?  Did you find someone in your trailer park to give you a ride to the junkyard, so you can buy a used "tyre"?  LOLOLOLOLOLOL


----------



## theliq (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



This IS GREAT......American English is such a corruption.....You write Nite for Night, Color for Colour...........AND INCREDIBLY the singular "MATH" for MATHS which is correct for which there is more than ONE subject and type of Mathmatics. IDIOT

They say empty vessels make the most noise 

Magnificence


----------



## theliq (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy said:


> How's the flat "tyre" on your house doing?  Did you find someone in your trailer park to give you a ride to the junkyard, so you can buy a used "tyre"?  LOLOLOLOLOLOL



Try Beachside and two storey,it's lovely waking up and having brekkie on the balcony...overlooking the Indian Ocean as far as the eye can see


By the way, what is a trailer park


----------



## theliq (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



The Jokes on YOU


----------



## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

theliq said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...


Where are nite, tyre, and maths used?  In your trailer park?  What a "BAFFOON"!  

PS. if I were you I'd shut my trap, you are embarrassing yourself beyond repair.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

theliq said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > How's the flat "tyre" on your house doing?  Did you find someone in your trailer park to give you a ride to the junkyard, so you can buy a used "tyre"?  LOLOLOLOLOLOL
> ...


Two "storey" eh?  I'm truly jealous!  Ha ha ha.  

Keep me comin'!


----------



## theliq (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



It's night by the way try to concentrate,I forgot to mention Heated Swimming Pool and Sauna  You can view my home on Google Earth,just type in Oceanside Promenade,Mullaloo,Western Australia.....you will note the lovely white beaches,Enjoy because I do


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## ima (Feb 26, 2013)

theliq said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > How's the flat "tyre" on your house doing?  Did you find someone in your trailer park to give you a ride to the junkyard, so you can buy a used "tyre"?  LOLOLOLOLOLOL
> ...



Does everyone poo all over the place in your neighbourhood?


----------



## toastman (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


Yup, i read that nonsense. The guy can't even spell, let alone argue rationally.  
Hey liqy boy, let us know when you graduate elementary school, then maybe we can argue together . 
The best thing about SS theliq is that theres no need for us to expose him for the dumb  illiterate Nazi scum that he is, because he is doing that himself ever y time he posts Hahahahaha i love it


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## Saigon (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy - 

I think the thing to ask yourself, is IF you can post without the running away, deflections, lies and red herrings that you have posted on this thread thus far. 

If so - I suggest you do so. 

If not - I suggest you log off and simply allow some of the stronger posters here to discuss the topic honestly.


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## Saigon (Feb 26, 2013)

toastman said:


> Yup, i read that nonsense. The guy can't even spell, let alone argue rationally.
> Hey liqy boy, let us know when you graduate elementary school, then maybe we can argue together .



What are your thoughts on Rosie's English and Roudy's level of honesty?

I suggest you answer honestly.

btw. Just as a word of advice - if you intend to copy Roudy and Rosie's tactic of accusing anyone who knows more about history than they do of supporting terror and fascism in the belief it will make you look cool - think again. It's an admission of defeat everytime - and anyone reading through these threads will notice the same thing. It's the posting equivalent of a white flag.


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Feb 26, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> The link was posted on one of the previous occasions when you ran away from the comment.
> 
> ...



Do you have any thoughts about why it is that Herodotus never wrote about the presence of Jews in Palestine? There are numerous references to Palestine in his writings.


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## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> I think the thing to ask yourself, is IF you can post without the running away, deflections, lies and red herrings that you have posted on this thread thus far.
> 
> ...


Lame. I humiliated you and exposed you as an ignorant liar.  

Stick a fork in him, he's done!


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## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy -
> ...


The palaistine Herodotus wrote was where the PHILISTINES lived. The Israelites defeated them. And after the Romans invaded Israel they renamed Israel Palestine to humiliate them. 

None of you terrorist ass lickers have the intellectual honesty to admit the fact that Arabs are recent invaders, and have absolutely no ties to the land.


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## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy -
> ...


Are all you islamoNazis illiterates with reading comprehension problems?

"Herodotus, who had traveled through the area, would have had firsthand knowledge of the land and its people. Yet he used Palaistinê to refer not to the Land of the Philistines, but to the Land of Israel"


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## Saigon (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy - 

A simple question.

Are you prepared to discuss this issue honestly?

Are you willing to commit to discussing the subject without diversions, without running away, and without lying and abuse?

A simple yes or no answer will be fine.

If so, I'l raise a couple of points you have thus far refused to address, and we can discuss them. If not - please log off and leave it for the stronger posters.


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## irosie91 (Feb 26, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy -
> ...





    Anyone who has ever READ   some of the writings of the ancient greeks--
    which is true of MOST  people who have experienced the USA  educational
    system know that the greeks of old were INTENSELY   ethnocentric.  
    They coined the word   BARBARIAN  which describes ANYONE NOT GREEK 
    with a clear conotation that the only value in a non greek is as a   
    slave -----which was described by PLATO  as a "LIVING TOOL"

    I am not at all surprised that the greeks did not note   JEWS----
    in any land which harbored   SOME GREEKS   ---the philistines 
    were essentially greek as were the PHONECIANS  with whom 
    the greeks had extensive  trade  

    an interesting factoid is that there was a brisk conversion rate of 
    greeks to judaism during the era of the talmud----ONKELOS   is 
    a very famous talmudist-----convert from  greek.  

    Any reason that   HERODOTUS does not mention all those  "arabs" 
    in   "palestine" 

    Other than the converts to Judaism---I know of no greeks who used 
    hebrew---but lots of jews knew greek ----in fact  ALEXANDRIA --the 
    one in egypt----was--at one time----a largely jewish town   

    For those who do not know   (like sherri)    GREEK CULTURE was 
    the dominant culture of the mediterranean area for a very long time.
    For those who do not know---(like sherri)   Greek art which bolstered 
    the greek sense of  their "greatness"----as virtually entirely plagiarized 
    from the egyptians

    For  those who do know know  (like sherri)   the romans were 
    so impressed with   GREEK CULTURE  that they considered knowing 
    greek---a sign of scholarly nobility in their own  

    For those who do not know  (like sherri)    the dead sea scrolls were 
    written in  Hebrew, aramaic and greek    (no french or arabic)

    Herodotus does not mention texas or baptists either


----------



## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> A simple question.
> 
> ...


Ha ha ha!  Now the idiot liar thinks he's in a position to dictate my actions. 

"Heroditos referred palaistine not as the and of the philistines but the land of Israel"

And a few posts later...""Today's Palestinians are not philistines". Hah? 

You just got tagged and you're too stupid to realize it. Actually you got tagged like 6 times in this thread. Hilarious.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy - 

I'll ask again. 

Are you prepared to discuss this issue honestly?

Are you willing to commit to discussing the subject without diversions, without running away, and without lying and abuse?

A simple yes or no answer will be fine.

If so, I'l raise a couple of points you have thus far refused to address, and we can discuss them. If not - please log off and leave it for the stronger posters.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 26, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy -
> ...


----------



## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> I'll ask again.
> 
> ...


We already discussed this, you brought forward your "facts" and then you lied and made todays Palestinians look like they're tied to the ancient Philistines and their history. That was your basis for your "stone age" claim (which you later lied again and changed to Bronze age), your "they can be traced back to Ashdod blah blah bah..".  etc.  

You also made it look like Jewish negotiations with the Nazis to save Jewish lives was the equivalent of what the Mufti did, who was an outright Nazi that fought for the Nazis, indirectly responsible for over 400,000 Jews being sent to their deaths based on his insistence.  

Then you claimed that there were no mosques when Mohammad died, and there clearly were three in Medina.  So when the Koran said Mohammad's spirit rose from the farthest mosque, it could NOT have been Jerusalem because there were no mosques in Jerusalem at the time. Which means the Muslim religious claim to the mosque in Jerusalem is FALSE.

Not to mention you ran around like a chicken with its head cut off from thread to thread trying to cover your lies by confusing and distorting facts. 

In other words, you are fulla shit and your own worst enemy.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 26, 2013)

> Herodotus used a greek name
> for the area "PALESTINE" "palestine" is not arabic" ---



You're quite right....and this does seem to suggest that the Philistines came from Cyprus or somewhere in that region. I believe the bible also indicates this.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy -

I'll ask a third time. And perhaps this time you don't respond with more lies and nonsense. I'm sure you don't need me to explain this - but you are the least honest poster on this forum. You know it, I know it  everyone else knows it. I also saw you got a few votes in a recent poll on the forum's weakest poster. It just doesn't seem you are able to post sensibly at all. Hence - I don't see the point in wasting my time if your only responses are the lying and running away we've seen in the past couple of days. 

Are you prepared to discuss this issue honestly?

Are you willing to commit to discussing the subject without diversions, without running away, and without lying and abuse?

A simple yes or no answer will be fine.

If so, I'l raise a couple of points you have thus far refused to address, and we can discuss them. If not - please log off and leave it for the stronger posters.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> I'll ask a third time. And perhaps this time you don't respond with more lies and nonsense.
> 
> ...


"stronger posters" delusions of grandeur. Ha ha ha! 

Shadap already, how many times do I have to stomp on you?  Go eat shit on another board will you?


----------



## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 26, 2013)

What issues    SAIGON?     and to what  "lies"  do you refer.

your habit of announcing   "YOU, THEY LIE"     
 and     "I DO TRUTH" ----is silly ------be a bit specific   
 So far you have made no points at all that support your 
 contention that     "PALESTINE AS A NATION, PEOPLE, 
    and CULTURE ----has existed in the middle east in 
    the form of the people who TODAY call themselves 
    'palestinians'   since the "stone age"'

    The genetic issues you present simply reveal that lots 
    of the people living in the middle east   AND JEWS living 
    world wide-----originated in the middle east      SO?
    How does that fact support the contention of you and 
    your  isa respecting buddies that   ISRAEL AS A NATION 
    SHOULD NOT EXIST?


----------



## Saigon (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy - 

Ok, I will take that as a 'no' - you will not post honestly. 

I don't think you could, to be honest. You don't have the knowledge of history and it's just not you. 


btw. As for stronger (Zionist) posters, I do think Jroc, Hoss, Rosie and Toastman also seem a bit better equipped to discuss these issues than you do - which is probably also why they are a bit more honest, no? You could perhaps learn something from them.


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## Saigon (Feb 26, 2013)

> Sherri like Siagooon thinks the Philistines are the same as the Palestinian Arabs of today.



And another lie...!

That is not at all what I think!


----------



## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > Sherri like Siagooon thinks the Philistines are the same as the Palestinian Arabs of today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Then why did you post a quote about Herodotus referring to the land of the Philistines as proof that Arab Palestine / Palestinians existed at the time?  You thought you could lie and get away with it?


----------



## toastman (Feb 26, 2013)

Saigon said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Yup, i read that nonsense. The guy can't even spell, let alone argue rationally.
> ...



Admission of defeat? This is a message board where regular people come to post their opinions. 
Theliq has constantly compared Nazis to Israelis, so I willl call him out everytime he does that. 
As far as the arguing between you and Roudy, he dismantled your arguments each time. 
If any one has been defeated, it is you and SS theliq. 
You said you were pro Israeli, right?


----------



## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> Ok, I will take that as a 'no' - you will not post honestly.
> 
> ...


Take a no, your lies and distortions remain what they are.  

Funny part is this asswipe goes around accusing others of lying.   LOL


----------



## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

toastman said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


First of all, thanks toast, second, saying and being are two different things.

 You'll catch that other Jew hating piece of shit Seal claiming he's pro Israel and has nothing against Jews.  As long as they let the Arabs kill them greedy Jew bastards off, that is. Ha ha.

On the bright side this Saigooon keeps coming back whining begging to eat more shit. Which I gladly oblidge.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 26, 2013)

toastman said:


> As far as the arguing between you and Roudy, he dismantled your arguments each time.



I did laugh at that....can you imagine??!! 

Wonderful posting, Toastman!! Pos rep.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

Saigon said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > As far as the arguing between you and Roudy, he dismantled your arguments each time.
> ...


I'll raise that to a neg rep.  

Quit while you don't fall further behind. Because you were never ahead. LOL


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 26, 2013)

I miss sherri-----where is sherri?    she is more comic than is saigon and 
runs   neck to neck with tinnie


----------



## Saigon (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy - 

I do think you realise yourself that you are one of the weakest posters on the forum. I've always thought that. I did see a thread a little while ago discussing weakest posters and you weren't winning - but you did poll rather well!!!

It's not only that you have never been to any of the places we talk about here, and clearly don't know where many of them are - it's the dishonesty, poor literacy and mindless abuse that really kill you. I would guess that 2/3 of your posts contain nothing except abuse - and actually I thought it was very telling that you posted so much about bestiality that the Mods changed the forum rules!!!!

I think of all the posters on this forum, you are one of VERY few who I have never seen score a point, win an argument or even present a strong post. 

If you disagree - let's see you link one!!


----------



## Saigon (Feb 26, 2013)

iRosie - 

I saw you asked earlier Roudy's lies. There were four in the OP alone, and another one shortly afterwards. If you read back through the first couple of pages of this thread, I numbered them in bold, refuted them and backed up my information with links from genuine sources.

Since then there have probably been another half dozen obvious lies - so about the 10 for the thread. I would say that is about standard for Roudy. 

I haven't personally seen any other poster being dishonest about anything, although I haven't read every post.


----------



## toastman (Feb 26, 2013)

Saigon said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > As far as the arguing between you and Roudy, he dismantled your arguments each time.
> ...



I find it funny that you call others  liars, while you run around claiming to be pro Israel. You are as much Pro Israeli as Frau Sherri is a christian. Now admit you have been defeated, and walk away before you get embaressed even more, if thats even possible.ill laugh to that


----------



## Saigon (Feb 26, 2013)

Toastman - 

Yes, I am pro-Israeli - passionately and proudly so. I loved living in Israel and several of my closest friends are Israelis who I visit whenever I can. I am always more than happy to post proof of that. 

I believe that Israel's existance can be justified on the basis of history alone. Jews can trace their heritage back in cities like Jericho and Jersualem for around 3,000 years. 

There is just no need for the racism and dishonesty that we see on this forum. I believe it genuinely damages Israel's standing. I also know for a fact that some Israeli Jews are embarassed by what they see on this forum, and at least one stopped posting here purely and simply because of the horrific racism from people like Roudy. 

Israel does not need lies and hatred to justify it's existance, and if you think most Israeli Jews will thank you for undermining their history and in some cases ridiculing Jewish historians - think again.


----------



## toastman (Feb 26, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Toastman -
> 
> Yes, I am pro-Israeli - passionately and proudly so. I loved living in Israel and several of my closest friends are Israelis who I visit whenever I can. I am always more than happy to post proof of that.
> 
> ...



Well, thanks for answering me respectfully. Butg Roudy is not racist. He's made some remarks that might make him seem so, but he doesn't hate Arabs or think that they are lesser people than Israelis. He . As well as I, hate the Jihadists . Trust me, if anyone herfe is a racist or Bigot, it's Sherri or SunniMan. You should read their posts


----------



## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> I do think you realise yourself that you are one of the weakest posters on the forum. I've always thought that. I did see a thread a little while ago discussing weakest posters and you weren't winning - but you did poll rather well!!!
> 
> ...


Dude whatever you're smoking gimme some of dat.  

I literally mopped the floor with your face and you still come back for more.  That's what I like about Pali supporters, they have this ingrained "Arab mentality" where every humiliating defeat is claimed as a victory.  

But if you have an insatiable appetite for Jewish shit, this is an all you can eat buffet here, be my guest.  LOL


----------



## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

toastman said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Toastman -
> ...


Poor Saigooon, he doesn't realize he's so wrong about my background and my experience, that in some circles I can be called an "Arab".  LOL


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 26, 2013)

Saigon    I checked the early pages of the thread and your 
citations------try harder----none of your citations --support 
your nonsensical  contentions


----------



## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Toastman -
> 
> Yes, I am pro-Israeli - passionately and proudly so. I loved living in Israel and several of my closest friends are Israelis who I visit whenever I can. I am always more than happy to post proof of that.
> 
> ...


Ya right, you're pro Israeli, that's why you compared Jewish collaboration with the Nazis to save Jewish lives from the death camps, to what the Nazi Mufti did, as a counter to all the overwhelming evidence about history of "Palestinian" Nazism.  If you're pro Israel then I'm Prince Charles.  LOL


----------



## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Saigon    I checked the early pages of the thread and your
> citations------try harder----none of your citations --support
> your nonsensical  contentions


Of course they don't, and when he's called on it, he starts parsing words, distorting and confusing to cover his blatant lies.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> I miss sherri-----where is sherri?    she is more comic than is saigon and
> runs   neck to neck with tinnie


Ah Sherri, one of Saigooons biggest fans.  But I have to admit, it's easier to get Sherri to flip out and say something outrageous and really crazy which in turn will generate a lot of laughs.  

Think of Sherri as "comic relief" and Saigooon as "head dufus".  LOL


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


The liq is a little wacky because someone smacked him over the punkin' with a "bonnet."


----------



## Roudy (Feb 26, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...


Or maybe, after he got a flat "tyre", he was so upset, it was during the "nite" that he fell from the second "storey" of an apartment, which turned him into a total "BAFFOON!", but apparently, he excels when it comes to the "maths"!  Go figure!  LOL


----------



## theliq (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



I don't live in an apartment but a 6 bedroom home


----------



## theliq (Feb 26, 2013)

toastman said:


> saigon said:
> 
> 
> > toastman -
> ...



troll loser


----------



## theliq (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



LOSER


----------



## theliq (Feb 26, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



LOSING HOSS


----------



## theliq (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Toastman -
> ...



Israel is the ZIONISTS THRONE OF BLOOD..............as for the story of the Mufti.....he had been thrown out of Palestine and NEVER RETURNED..years before....NON of his actions were scantioned by Palestine and NO Palestinians joined his Motely Band of soldiers,they were Egyptians and Tunisians.....YOU IGNORANT IDIOT.

BUT THE ZIONISTS ALL BUT SUCKED OFF THE NAZIS,such was their devotion to them....together they eliminated millions of Jews.....These people the Zionists had NO trouble trying to eliminate the Palestinians........ZIONIST ARE AND WERE THE WORST OF ANTI-SEMITES........AND HISTORY PROVES IT. YOU IDIOT FUKCARD.


----------



## theliq (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > I miss sherri-----where is sherri?    she is more comic than is saigon and
> ...



You are so full of SHIT,what's it like GOING AROUND WITH YOUR HEAD UP YOUR ASS,


The Magnificent


----------



## theliq (Feb 26, 2013)

roudy said:


> saigon said:
> 
> 
> > toastman -
> ...



yawn


----------



## theliq (Feb 26, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Toastman -
> ...


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 26, 2013)

theliq said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


My goodness, Stevie, you seem all worked up about "sucking."  Is that what you do all day long in between pacing the floors of you know where and posting nonsense on forums like the sicko you are?  I wonder if Little Stevie can prove to us from a legitimate source that the Mufti had been thrown out of Palestine.  Given the nature of Little Stevie's posts, I think many of the posters can picture him (if he had been around at that time) accompanying the Mufti to Berlin to stay with that idol of his, Adolph.


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 26, 2013)

theliq said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


First off, Stevie, the Insignificant One, your psychiatrist wants to know why a grown man plays with crayons.  Secondly, you are lucky you finally made an appointment with your proctologist so that he could find your head.


----------



## toastman (Feb 26, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Too bad there is no legitimate source for jibberish. Liqy boy thinks that people will believe him if he keeps spewing the same crap all day . What a fuckin loonie


----------



## Saigon (Feb 26, 2013)

toastman said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Toastman -
> ...



Well, put it this way - Roudy's posting at one stage relied so heavily in accusations of bestiality by some races that the forum rules were changed. I really don't think there can be any question at all that Roudy's main motive for posting here is racial hatred.

I hate Jihadis, I hate terrorists and I say this as someone who has seen them in action more than most - if the only thing you guys attacked were terrorists, we wouldn't disagree. 

I totally agree that there are some anti-Semitic racists here - Holston and Ima being the most notable ones. I don't see major differences between them myself.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 26, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...



Still waiting....


----------



## Saigon (Feb 26, 2013)

*Roudy's Lies #395,768*



Saigon said:


> Roudy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> *Roudy's Lies #395,768*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Asked and answered. The Palestine in 5th century BCE is the land where the Philistines lived, who had absolutely nothing to do with the Arab Palestinians as you lied. They ceased to exist as a group or people thousands of years before Arabs arrived in the region.

 You attributed philistine history in Ashdod and Ashdod to Arab Palestinians. And then you really put both feet in your mouth by claiming that Arab Palestinians go back to the Stone Age.  Would you like me to put up those posts to further humiliate you?

Give it up dork.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

Roudy - 

No, this is nothing to do with Philistines, this is about the word "PALESTINIANS". 

By all means check with the research document listed. It very clearly and specifically refers NOT to Philistines, but to PALESTINIANS. Weirdly enough, where the document refers to Philistines - it uses the world Philistines. Where it refers to Palestinians - it uses the word Palestinians.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Well for one, you claim that Arab Palestinians can trace their roots to Ashdod and Ashkelon over 3000 years ago.  That is an outright lie and distortion.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> No, this is nothing to do with Philistines, this is about the word "PALESTINIANS".
> 
> By all means check with the research document listed. It very clearly and specifically refers NOT to Philistines, but to PALESTINIANS. Weirdly enough, where the document refers to Philistines - it uses the world Philistines. Where it refers to Palestinians - it uses the word Palestinians.


But in your "document" where you quote Heroditus, he is clearly referring to Philistines.  Liar liar pantalones on fire.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

> Well for one, you claim that Arab Palestinians can trace their roots to Ashdod and Ashkelon over 3000 years ago. That is an outright lie and distortion.



So....you didn't look at the genetics information posted earlier, then?

I can produce...shall we say FIVE major historical books which confirm this? Would five be enough?


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

Roudy said:


> But in your "document" where you quote Heroditus, he is clearly referring to Philistines.  Liar liar pantalones on fire.



Firstly, I think you'll find his name is Herodotus. 

Secondly - please try and stick to what has actually been posted. The research documents have been posted, and are available.

Thirdly - please note that the word "Philistines" refers to Philistines. The words "Palestinans" refers to Palestinians.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> *Roudy's Lies #395,768*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your link:

*During the Byzantine period, the entire region (Syria Palestine, Samaria, and the Galilee) was named Palaestina, subdivided into provinces Palaestina* I and II.[28] The Byzantines also *renamed* an area of land including the Negev, Sinai, and the west coast of the Arabian Peninsula as Palaestina Salutaris, sometimes called Palaestina III.[28] The Arabic word for Palestine is &#1601;&#1604;&#1587;&#1591;&#1610;&#1606; (commonly transcribed in English as Filistin, Filastin, or Falastin).[29]

The region was among the earliest in the world to see human habitation, agricultural communities and civilization. During the Bronze Age, independent Canaanite city-states were established, and were influenced by the surrounding civilizations of ancient Egypt, Mesopotamia, Phoenicia, Minoan Crete, and Syria. Between 1550&#8211;1400 BCE, the Canaanite cities became vassals to the Egyptian New Kingdom who held power until the 1178 BCE Battle of Djahy (Canaan) during the wider Bronze Age collapse. The Philistines arrived and mingled with the local population, and according to Biblical tradition, the United Kingdom of Israel was established in 1020 BCE and split within a century to form the northern Kingdom of Israel, and the southern Kingdom of Judah. The region became part of the Neo-Assyrian Empire from c.740 BCE, which was itself replaced by the Neo-Babylonian Empire in c.627 BCE. According to the Bible, a war with Egypt culminated in 586 BCE when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar II and the local leaders of the region of Judea were deported to Babylonia. In 539 BCE, the Babylonian empire was replaced by the Achaemenid Empire. According to the bible and implications from the Cyrus Cylinder, the exiled population of Judea was allowed to return to Jerusalem.

So, where are the so called Arab Palestinians in this?  Nowhere.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

Document 1:

Between 10,000 and 5000 BCE, agricultural communities were established. Evidence of such settlements were found at Tel es-Sultan in Jericho and consisted of a number of walls, a religious shrine, and a 23-foot (7.0 m) tower with an internal staircase Jericho is believed to be one of the oldest continuously-inhabited cities in the world, with evidence of settlement dating back to 9000 BCE, providing important information about early human habitation in the Near East. Along the Jericho&#8211;Dead Sea&#8211;Bir es-Saba&#8211;Gaza&#8211;Sinai route, a culture originating in Syria, marked by the use of copper and stone tools, brought new migrant groups to the region contributing to an increasingly urban fabric.

By the early Bronze Age (3000&#8211;2200 BCE), independent Canaanite city-states situated in plains and coastal regions and surrounded by mud-brick defensive walls were established and most of these cities relied on nearby agricultural hamlets for their food needs. Archaeological finds from the early Canaanite era have been found at Tel Megiddo, Jericho, Tel al-Far'a (Gaza), Bisan, and Ai (Deir Dibwan/Ramallah District), Tel an Nasbe (al-Bireh) and Jib (Jerusalem). The Canaanite city-states held trade and diplomatic relations with Egypt and Syria. Parts of the Canaanite urban civilization were destroyed around 2300 BCE, though there is no consensus as to why. Incursions by nomads from the east of the Jordan River who settled in the hills followed soon thereafter.

History of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

> During the Byzantine period, the entire region (Syria Palestine, Samaria, and the Galilee) was named Palaestina, subdivided into provinces Palaestina I and II.[28] The Byzantines also renamed an area of land including the Negev, Sinai, and the west coast of the Arabian Peninsula as Palaestina Salutaris, sometimes called Palaestina III.[28] The Arabic word for Palestine is &#1601;&#1604;&#1587;&#1591;&#1610;&#1606; (commonly transcribed in English as Filistin, Filastin, or Falastin).[29]



Yes. Exactly.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

Maybe this helps:

Remember we saw earlier that Palestinian genetic code is linked quite closely to the Canaanite cities along the coast, such as Ashdod...

600,000-10,000 B.C.
Paleolithic and Mesolithic period. Earliest human remains in the area, found south of Lake Tiberias, dated to circa 600,000 B.C.
10,000-5,000 B.C.
Neolithic period. Establishment of settled agricultural communities.
5,000-3,000 B.C.
Chalcolithic period. Copper and stone tools and artifacts. Remains from this period found near Jericho, Beersheba, and the Dead Sea.
3,000-2,000 B.C.
Early Bronze Age. Arrival and settlement of Canaanites (3,000-2,500 B.C.).
ca. 1,250 B.C.
Israelite conquest of Canaan.
965-928 B.C.
King Solomon. Construction of the temple in Jerusalem.

Palestinian History, A Chronology, 564


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

theliq said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


My rule: someone who usually feels the need to tell everyone about his wealth, is usually a worthless bum. Those who really have it, never flaunt it. In fact, they always keep an extremely low profile.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

So let's go back to the genetic history, because I think this really does tie this up fairly clearly...

Most ancient recorded inhabitants of Palestine are named
Canaanites (3rd millennium BC or more ancient). They
became urbanized and lived in city-states, one of which
was Jericho. Palestine&#8217;s location at the center of routes
linking three continents made it the meeting place for
religious and cultural influences from Egypt, Syria,
Mesopotamia, and Anatolia. 

http://www.stml.net/text/Populations.pdf

Read the whole thing!


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

Roudy said:


> My rule: someone who usually feels the need to tell everyone about his wealth, is usually a worthless bum. Those who really have it, never flaunt it. In fact, they always keep an extremely low profile.



How about someone who claims to have lived in Israel, but can't prove it, and seems to go very quiet when asked about where he served is IDF training?

What could that mean?


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maybe this helps:
> 
> Remember we saw earlier that Palestinian genetic code is linked quite closely to the Canaanite cities along the coast, such as Ashdod...
> 
> ...


No it doesn't serve any purpose whatsoever other than a diversion on your part. Sow me where the ARAB Palestinian went back to the stone ages. Sow me their ancient ties to town such as Ashkelon and Ashdod.  I will give you one more chance: ARAB Palestinian history going back 3000 years.  Lets go, 1,2,3. Wahid thnen, tlathi (Arabic) yek, do se (Farsi).


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

> Sow me where the ARAB Palestinian went back to the stone ages.



Most ancient recorded inhabitants of Palestine are named
Canaanites (3rd millennium BC or more ancient). They
became urbanized and lived in city-states, one of which
was Jericho. Palestine&#8217;s location at the center of routes
linking three continents made it the meeting place for
religious and cultural influences from Egypt, Syria,
Mesopotamia, and Anatolia. 

http://www.stml.net/text/Populations.pdf

I think I have posted this about 5 times in the past week now...I guess you keep missing it.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> So let's go back to the genetic history, because I think this really does tie this up fairly clearly...
> 
> Most ancient recorded inhabitants of Palestine are named
> Canaanites (3rd millennium BC or more ancient). They
> ...


I'm reading I'm reading!  But still you're fulla shit!  Look, this is from your second link:

FIGURE 1 Canaan in ancient times. Palestinians (*Philis- tines) *city-states by 1100-1000 BC (black squares) Jericho was an ancient Canaanite city-state. Jerusalem, Nazareth and modern Tel-Aviv are also indicated [37]. Palestinian city- states may come from the remains of Egyptian garrisons, left to their own fate according to archaeological records [6]; the Bible quotes that Palestinians may have come from Crete [7]. Gath may be placed more to the south because it has not been recognized in modern times. Goliath, the Palestine, who was killed by King David according to the Bible, come from this city.
(1125 BC) but found the struggle with the Philistines (Palestinians) more difficult. *Philistines* had established an independent state on the southern coast of Palestine and also controlled the Canaanite town of Jerusalem.
The &#8220;sea people&#8221; contributed to the fall of the Anatolian Hittites and other Middle East people by 1200 BC and apparently seriously threatened Egypt [5]. The *Philistines* have been included among the &#8220;sea people&#8221; invaders. However, it is doubtful that big amounts of people entered nowadays Anatolia and Palestine; a new iron technology probably was taken de novo by some autochthonous Canaanite tribes that acquired superiority.

Israelites could also stem from autochthonous Canaanite tribes that were agglutinated by a group of people led by Moses to fight against other Canaanites, including *Philistines* and finally set up ancient Israel [6- 8]. By 1000 BC, and after warring with *Philistines* and other Canaanites, an Israelite state was founded by king Saul [6].
Palestinians held five important city-states when the fighting with Israel began (after 1200 BC): Gaza, Ash-kelon, Ashod, Ekron and Gath (Figure 1).


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

Roudy - 

Well, if you have read it, then I think you also understand the point. 

Palestinians can - indisputably - trace their genetic history back to the Canaanites. 

Agreed?


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

And.....he runs away. Again. 

Dont worry, folks, Roudy will be back later to spam the thread with pictures and abuse, and will then go back to pretending this never happened.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > Sow me where the ARAB Palestinian went back to the stone ages.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah I keep missing the myth that Arab Palestinians go back to the stone ages, over 3000 years ago. All I see FROM YOUR STUFF, are references to PHILISTINES. 

Hang it up?  Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> Well, if you have read it, then I think you also understand the point.
> 
> ...


Yeah, Jews can, but NOT Arabs, because they ain't PHILISTINES. And came way after. Like thousands of years after.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> And.....he runs away. Again.
> 
> Dont worry, folks, Roudy will be back later to spam the thread with pictures and abuse, and will then go back to pretending this never happened.


Dude I just chewed you up and spat you out. You are a mental midget. 

YOU HAVE NOTHING.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

Most ancient recorded inhabitants of Palestine are named
Canaanites (*3rd millennium BC or more ancient)*. They
became urbanized and lived in city-states, one of which
was Jericho. Palestine&#8217;s location at the center of routes
linking three continents made it the meeting place for
religious and cultural influences from Egypt, Syria,
Mesopotamia, and Anatolia. 

Please note that genetic tasting has PROVEN the link between Palestinians and Canaanites. 

This is not a theory. It's a fact.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Poor guy....I pissed on him so badly, he's dedicated his whole signature to me. 

I am truly honored, no really.  LOL


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Most ancient recorded inhabitants of Palestine are named
> Canaanites (*3rd millennium BC or more ancient)*. They
> became urbanized and lived in city-states, one of which
> was Jericho. Palestine&#8217;s location at the center of routes
> ...


Pay attention now, we are talking about Arab Palestinians. Your stuff links PHILISTINES, not Arab Palestinians as a "distinct people that can trace their roots back to the land over 3000 years" 

So far I see nothing. 

Look, piss, or get off the pot. Or piss and drink from the pot. One of the two.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > My rule: someone who usually feels the need to tell everyone about his wealth, is usually a worthless bum. Those who really have it, never flaunt it. In fact, they always keep an extremely low profile.
> ...


It could mean a lot of things. You aren't bright are you?  Does everybody who lives in Israel have to serve in the army?  No.  Only if you are an Israeli citizen. Ignoramus.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Most ancient recorded inhabitants of Palestine are named
> Canaanites (*3rd millennium BC or more ancient)*. They
> became urbanized and lived in city-states, one of which
> was Jericho. Palestine&#8217;s location at the center of routes
> ...


ARAB ARAB ARAB ARAB. Where are the Arab Palestinians?  Genetic tasting?  Can I get whine and cheese with that?


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

Roudy - 

I would never have expected an honest response from you. It's beyond you, and we both know that. 

I'll leave it for you to spam for a while, and then post it again later for anyone with a genuine interest in the topic. 

Oh, and the link very clearly, very specifically and unequivocally refers to PALESTINIANS. If you look at the document - it is in the headline!


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Wow, how many strikes so far?  By my count its seven. Lets see if you can establish a record.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

Roudy said:


> It could mean a lot of things. You aren't bright are you?  Does everybody who lives in Israel have to serve in the army?  No.  Only if you are an Israeli citizen. Ignoramus.



Yes. Everybody who lives in Israel serves in the army  - the only option is to leave Israel. 

Go and check. 

It's funny - when this came up maybe a year or so back I realised you were lying about living in Israel and told a few other posters about it by PM, but decided to let you stew in it. 

I know these rules very well, as this was really a big issue for me when I lived there.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> I would never have expected an honest response from you. It's beyond you, and we both know that.
> 
> ...


STEEEEEEEERIKE OUT!  Next batter!  Bwahahahahaha!


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

Roudy - 

You'll probably need to spam the thread about 20 times to get this off the last page. Perhaps use some of those threads to explain how it is you missed Israeli military service!

I'll post the material again later, after you have finished spamming.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > It could mean a lot of things. You aren't bright are you?  Does everybody who lives in Israel have to serve in the army?  No.  Only if you are an Israeli citizen. Ignoramus.
> ...


I never lied about it. I lived in tel aviv, ramat gan. Best time of my life. Beautiful people. So much strength and promise. Walked on Fridays to dizengoff with my friends, no buses. Why do I need to lie about it? If I was there for a visit only I would say so. I visited Israel at least 9 times before I ended up living there temporarily. I plan on going back there for another vist over summer.  Waiting to see what happens with Iran.  

As I told you before you aren't observant at all.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> You'll probably need to spam the thread about 20 times to get this off the last page. Perhaps use some of those threads to explain how it is you missed Israeli military service!
> 
> I'll post the material again later, after you have finished spamming.


nice diversion, so now the subject is why a non citizen has to serve?  Ha ha ha.  You are pathetic. I give you an F minus. If there was a Z, I would give it to you. 

MAJOR FAIL.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> You'll probably need to spam the thread about 20 times to get this off the last page. Perhaps use some of those threads to explain how it is you missed Israeli military service!
> 
> I'll post the material again later, after you have finished spamming.


What material?  You provided two links and I ripped them to shreds. Do I look like a paper shredder?  LOL  

I am truly enjoying this. You begged me to give you a chance to "explain" it to me...so far you've managed to humiliate yourself yet again.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > My rule: someone who usually feels the need to tell everyone about his wealth, is usually a worthless bum. Those who really have it, never flaunt it. In fact, they always keep an extremely low profile.
> ...


I didn't get IDF training I got Mossad training. Yes I confess I am a spy. Ha ha ha. Can I pay you for this entertainment?  No really.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Hey!  Where'd he go?   I was just going to tell him that I got my IDF training about 3000 years ago with some Arab Palestinians in Ashdod Israel, who can trace their roots back to the Jurrasic period.  Millions of years ago!  No seriously.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

Roudy said:


> in some circles I can be called an "Arab".  LOL



I am so glad you stopped pretending to be Iranian. 

To answer you question as to WHY you lie about these things - I have no idea. Because you can, I suppose. 

People foget one or two, but after you see 10, wo, 30 lies from one poster in one thread - you do start to assume everything is a lie. Like the thing about you having lived in Israel. 

If you lie about everything else, why would you be honest about that?


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 27, 2013)

Roudy never lied about the fact that he was born in Iraq and his family moved to  Iran 
  SAIGON    you are disgusting shit


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

Rosie - 

The idea of why Roudy might lie about his background is actually of little interest to me beyond humour value. If he wants to pretend to be an Iraqi-Iranian-American-Israeli-Insert-other he is welcome to try! 

Lying about history I think is both more important and more serious. It is also easier to prove.

For instance - Roudy claimed several times the other day that the basis of Malaysian law is Sharia. Anyone with access to Google can confirm that Malaysian law is basd on UK common law - Sharia is only used in some states, and even then only in a limited role.

He claimed there were mosques in Mecca when Mohammed died - again, I am sure most of us know the earliest mosques were in Medina - not in Mecca, some 300 kms away. 

He has claimed the word Palestine was not used before the Roman era - my sig line suggests this is out by some centuries.

He has claimed Palestine nationalism only began in the 1960's - despite the fact newspapers from the 1920's discuss the rising tide of Palestinian nationalism. Some trace the origins of Palestinian nationalism back to riots from 1843, and these have been posted several times. 

He has claimed that Jews never 'collaborated' with Nazis - after being presented with quotes from two major Jewish historians using the word "collaboration" to describe the actions. 

You can argue that one of two of these points are subjective - but in truth most are not. The are simple issues of facts versus fiction. 

What is remkarable about Roudy's posting is an absolutely insistence on posting fiction, long after the facts have been posted, backed up and linked to reliable sources. 

Why does he do it?

I have no idea.


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 27, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Roudy never lied about the fact that he was born in Iraq and his family moved to  Iran
> SAIGON    you are disgusting shit


Saigoon reminds me of my cat or any cat for that matter. I don't want him on the porch and I take him off the porch, sit him on the ground and he runs back onto the porch. I remove him again and he runs back onto the porch. This scenario goes on and on until I get tired and finally I let him stay on the porch. I'm thinking about dropping him off near a Chinese restaurant dumpster.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > in some circles I can be called an "Arab".  LOL
> ...


But I am Iranian.  My expired passport says so. Confused?  

Your IQ is less than my shoe size.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 27, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...




I have never known   roudy to  "lie"    he did state he was born in Iraq and his family--
at some point moved to Iran and---then left Iran       I have known lots of Iraqi jews who 
left Iraq------How would roudy know both arabic and farsi  if he is lying about his background?      Why is does this history seem so  "UNBELIEVABLE" to saigon?


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

The Saigoon moaned: Rosie - 

The idea of why Roudy might lie about his background is actually of little interest to me beyond humour value. If he wants to pretend to be an Iraqi-Iranian-American-Israeli-Insert-other he is welcome to try! *Never claimed to be Israeli, sunshine.  But the rest is true.*

Lying about history I think is both more important and more serious. It is also easier to prove.* Well you try hard, but I exposed your ignorance and lies*

For instance - Roudy claimed several times the other day that the basis of Malaysian law is Sharia. Anyone with access to Google can confirm that Malaysian law is basd on UK common law - Sharia is only used in some states, and even then only in a limited role. * There ya go distorting and lying again. YOU provided Malaysia as a shining example of modernity where Shariah law is not used, and I showed you that it is a dual system, whereby your own admission later, SHARIAH IS used, hence making it yet another SHARIAH SHITHOLE*

He claimed there were mosques in Mecca when Mohammed died - again, I am sure most of us know the earliest mosques were in Medina - not in Mecca, some 300 kms away. * The point being made was that Muslims claim that the Al aqsa mosque in Jerusalem is supposedly holy to them, because the Koran says when Mohammad died, his spirit rose to heaven from "the farthest mosque" (meaning al aqsa), and since there were NO mosques in Jerusalem at the time of Mohammads death, then IT COULD NOT HAVE BEEN THE AL AQSA.  I mistakenly said Mecca when I meant Medina of which there were three mosques at the time.  Shoot me.*

He has claimed the word Palestine was not used before the Roman era - my sig line suggests this is out by some centuries.*I have proven that Palestine referred to the land of the Philistines originally. You lied and said that Palestinian ARABS go back to the stone age, even named a few Israeli cities they can trace their roots going back 3000 years.  WHICH ONLY APPLIES TO THE PHILISTINES.  I have always claimed that after the Roman invasion of Israel, the land WAS RENAMED TO PALESTINE, THE PEOPLE THE ISRAELITES HAD DEFEATED.  The Philistines ceased to exist as a group or people by 5th century AD. Apparently I wounded you so badly that you decided to devote your sig line to me, to save face. I am honored that you wear such a badge of defeat. *

He has claimed Palestine nationalism only began in the 1960's - despite the fact newspapers from the 1920's discuss the rising tide of Palestinian nationalism. Some trace the origins of Palestinian nationalism back to riots from 1843, and these have been posted several times. * Look up Palestinian nationalism or the state of Palestine, it actually began even later, in the 70's I believe.  It is a fact that Arabs did not call themselves or consider themselves Palestinians until the mid 60's.  I have provided quotes from Palestinian Arab leaders to that effect*

He has claimed that Jews never 'collaborated' with Nazis - after being presented with quotes from two major Jewish historians using the word "collaboration" to describe the actions.* Wrong again. I posted a link showing the close ties the Palestinian Arab Mufti of Jerusalem had with the Nazis, he fought for them, he declared himself a Nazi, created a Muslim Nazi army,  met with hitler and himmler, and even successfully lobbied Hitler to kill an additional 400,000 Jews.  You then compared this animal and put him on the same level as Jews who negotiated and tried to save Jewish lives from being sent to the death camps. You are SICK.* 

You can argue that one of two of these points are subjective - but in truth most are not. The are simple issues of facts versus fiction. * Yes, my facts versus your fiction and WHINNG. *

What is remkarable about Roudy's posting is an absolutely insistence on posting fiction, long after the facts have been posted, backed up and linked to reliable sources. *What's remarkable is your continued accusations of things you are guilty of yourself. *

Why does he do it?* Because you are an ignorant fool and I enjoy making you look like one?*

I have no idea.* That was the first correct thing you said!  Bravo! *


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

Actually the funniest lie I remember of Roudy's was an entirely innocent one - does anyone remember when he claimed to have met Leonard Cohen - and Cohen was surprised to be recognised??!!

That really was hilarious stuff. 

Roudy - as I said earlier, my only interest in where you claim to be from is humour value. Make up whatever stories you like.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

*Lie #1. *



> YOU provided Malaysia as a shining example of modernity where Shariah law is not used, and I showed you that it is a dual system, whereby your own admission later, SHARIAH is used, hence making it yet another SHARIAH SHITHOLE



Wonderful stuff....you seriously could not make this stuff up,could you?!

*The law of Malaysia is mainly based on the common law legal system.* This was a direct result of the colonization of Malaya, Sarawak, and North Borneo by Britain between the early 19th century to 1960s. The supreme law of the land&#8212;the Constitution of Malaysia&#8212;sets out the legal framework and rights of Malaysian citizens. *Federal laws enacted by the Parliament of Malaysia apply throughout the country. *There are also state laws enacted by the State Legislative Assemblies which applies in the particular state. The constitution of Malaysia also provides for a unique dual justice system&#8212;the secular laws (criminal and civil) and sharia laws.

Law of Malaysia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So no, genius, most of Malaysia does NOT have Sharia law. Jesus wept!!!!


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

*Lie #2. *

You claimed there were mosques in Mecca at the Mohammed died. This claim is false.

Mecca IS NOT Medina.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

*Lie #3*



> I have proved the Palestine used referred to the land of the Philistines



No - you simply said it, and despite all evidence to the contrary. You presented no facts, no evidence, and no links. 

Posting this for the SIXTH time now - 

Most ancient recorded inhabitants of Palestine are named
Canaanites (3rd millennium BC or more ancient). They
became urbanized and lived in city-states, one of which
was Jericho. Palestine&#8217;s location at the center of routes
linking three continents made it the meeting place for
religious and cultural influences from Egypt, Syria,
Mesopotamia, and Anatolia. During the second
millennium BC, Egyptian hegemony and Canaanite
autonomy were constantly challenged by such ethnically
diverse invaders as the Amorites, Hittites, and Hurrians
from Anatolia and the East. These invaders, however,
were defeated by the Egyptians and absorbed by the
Canaanites, who at that time may have numbered about
200,000.

http://www.stml.net/text/Populations.pdf

Nothing to do with Philistines at all.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

*Lie #4*



> look up Palestinian nationalism or the state of Palestine, it actually began even later,* in the 70's* I believe. It is a fact that Arabs did not call themselves or consider themselves Palestinians. I have provided quotes from Palestinian Arab leaders to that effect



Oh dear....did you mean the 1870's??!!

Michelle Compos records that "Later, after the founding of Tel Aviv in 1909, conflicts over land grew in the direction of explicit national rivalry."[19] Zionist ambitions were increasingly identified as a threat by Palestinian leaders, while cases of purchase of lands by Zionist settlers and the subsequent eviction of Palestinian peasants aggravated the issue. This anti-Zionist trend became linked to anti-British resistance, to form a nationalist movement quite particular and separate from the pan-Arab trend that was gaining strength in the Arab world, and would later be headed by Nasser, Ben Bella and other anticolonial leaders.

The programmes of four Palestinian nationalist societies jamyyat al-Ikha&#8217; wal-&#8216;Afaf (Brotherhood and Purity), al-jam&#8217;iyya al-Khayriyya al-Islamiyya, Shirkat al-Iqtissad alFalastini al-Arabi and Shirkat al-Tijara al-Wataniyya al-Iqtisadiyya were reported in the newspaper Falastin in June 1914 by letter from R. Abu al-Sal&#8217;ud. The four societies has similarities in function and ideals; the promotion of patriotism, educational aspirations and support for national industries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_nationalism


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

*Lie # 5. *



> I posted a link showing the close ties the Palestinian Arab Mufti of Jerusalem had with the Nazis, he fought for them, he declared himself a Nazi, created a Muskim Nazi army, met with hitler and himmler, and even lobbied hustler to kill an additional 400,000 Jews. You then compared this animal and put him on the same level as Jews who negotiated and tried to save Jewish lives from being sent to the death camps. You are SICK.



No, I'm simply honest. You said Palestinians collaborated with Hitler - I reminded you that Jews did as well, which you then denied. 

Jews also collaborated with the Nazis - and despite your hilarious claim that the world "collaboration" has more than one meaning, both Raul Hillberg and Hannah Arendt - who you then called a "fucking liar" confirm that collaboration that occured in Hungary. 

Rudolf Israel Kastner[1] (1906&#8211;March 15, 1957) was an Austro-Hungarian-born Israeli civil servant, journalist and lawyer. He became known for facilitating the departure of Jews out of Nazi-occupied Hungary during the Holocaust. He was assassinated in 1957 after an Israeli court accused him of having *collaborated with the Nazis.*

Rudolf Kastner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

> Why is does this history seem so "UNBELIEVABLE" to saigon?



Well, because if he had lived in Israel he would have performed military service, for one.....now not all permanant residents of Israel do get called up, but they can all be called up if Israel so chooses, and they are all notified of this.

As I said earlier - if someone will lie to you about 20 or 30 things in one week - you can probably guess there another 20 or 30 lies out there that we haven't noticed. 

Remember when Roudy claimed the Jordanians killed 25,000 Palestinians in three weeks in Black September, for instance??!!

What is that if not a lie?!

These really very funny things really stick in the mind!


----------



## Lipush (Feb 27, 2013)

Just a break of beauty to the hearts of Judaism-


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


Minor correction irose.  I am of Iraqi ancestry but was not born in Iraq, I was born in Iran.  I also have some Kurdish in me.  In essence my roots can be traced back to ancient Babylon, which are the Jews that fled the destruction of the first temple in Israel.  My background and diverse life experience has allowed me to have a unique perpective on the reality of political and international events.  I can also spot Jew haters of all sizes and shapes very effectively, including this scumbag Saigooon.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

Lipush -

This is my favourite image of Israel....I'm sure I don't need to say where it is!






[/IMG]


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

> My background and diverse life experience has allowed me to have a unique perpective on the reality of political and international events.



SNAP!!!!

So how many countries have you actually been to, Roudy?

How many countries have you actually lived in?

And how many languages do you speak?

Go on - inspire us! Make me look silly!


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> *Lie #4*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lies lies lies: 

In 1974 the PLO called for an independent state in the territory of Mandate Palestine.[58] The group used guerilla tactics to attack Israel from their bases in Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria, as well as from within the Gaza Strip and West Bank.[59] In 1988, the PLO officially endorsed a two-state solution, with Israel and Palestine living side by side contingent on specific terms such as making East Jerusalem capital of the Palestinian state and giving Palestinians the right of return to land occupied by Palestinians prior to the 1948 and 1967 wars with Israel.[60]


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> *Lie # 5. *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why did you feel it necessary to post this and compare it to what the Mufti did, making it seem like the two are the same?  Are you a Pali terrorist ass licker?  Oui, yes, ey, Bali, areh, Ken!


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > My background and diverse life experience has allowed me to have a unique perpective on the reality of political and international events.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Enough to know scum like you when I see it.


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > Why is does this history seem so "UNBELIEVABLE" to saigon?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You Are an Idiot | Flash Videos


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> *Lie #3*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So, where are these Palestinian Arabs?  Again, you got NOTHING!


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > > My background and diverse life experience has allowed me to have a unique perpective on the reality of political and international events.
> ...



Wow, that really showed me. I feel silly now. Sigh....


----------



## toastman (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon, you ripped Roudy for posting personal attacks, and now you are insulting his heritage and bringing up his family ?!! What does this have to do with the topic ? 
Sorry to say, but Roudy dismantled your argument (even though you did make some good points)
Then there;s your post about how everyone in ISrael has to serve in the army...You said you lived in Israel, right?????


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > My background and diverse life experience has allowed me to have a unique perpective on the reality of political and international events.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't need to.  You do a good job on your own. Why fix something that isn't broken. By the way, I am of the belief that travel doesn't necessarily translate to knowledge.  Case in point,  YOU.  You will find a simple villager to have a better insight on life and reality, than many well traveled / wealthy people. The fact that you keep brining up your "travels" as a defense means you are highly insecure.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

toastman said:


> Saigon, you ripped Roudy for posting personal attacks, and now you are insulting his heritage and bringing up his family ?!! What does this have to do with the topic ?
> Sorry to say, but Roudy dismantled your argument (even though you did make some good points)
> Then there;s your post about how everyone in ISrael has to serve in the army...You said you lived in Israel, right?????


Toast, he is telling me that when I lived in Israel I didn't have those delicious felafels at that square in ramat gan with my friends almost everyday,  I didn't try to pick up those Swedish and British nudists when we went to Nueba and got drunk, I didn't play beach racket ball in tel aviv. No that must have been somewhere else. He knows better. ha ha ha.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

toastman said:


> Saigon, you ripped Roudy for posting personal attacks, and now you are insulting his heritage and bringing up his family ?!! What does this have to do with the topic ?
> Sorry to say, but Roudy dismantled your argument (even though you did make some good points)
> Then there;s your post about how everyone in ISrael has to serve in the army...You said you lived in Israel, right?????



I actually abandoned any hope of useful debate concerning the issues of Palestinian history when, after a day of Roudy running away, changing the topic and using delaying tactics, he finaly refused to post honestly. 

Anytime he commits to posting honestly we can go back to the topic. 

I did live in Israel, which is why I know the call-up system in some detail. It was one of those slip-ups by Roudy that he could not have expected other posters might know. 

To answer your next question - I decided to leave Israel rather than spend 3 years in the IDF. I would have stayed longer there otherwise, but I was told that 4 x 3 month work visas was the maximum allowed. I then moved to Norway.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

> The fact that you keep brining up your "travels" as a defense means you are highly insecure.



You mean like this guy?



> My background and diverse life experience has allowed me to have a unique perpective on the reality of political and international events.



btw. I've actually never said on this board how many countries I've been to, how much I have published, or how many countries I have been to. There's just no need to.


----------



## toastman (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon, you ripped Roudy for posting personal attacks, and now you are insulting his heritage and bringing up his family ?!! What does this have to do with the topic ?
> ...



You don't have to go to the army if you live in Israel. Only if you are born there !
I have an Israeli passport (I'm born and raised in Montreal, Quebec) and I received a letter when I turned 18 that said I had to join the army. But since I was living in Canada and was a student, I was able to clear it up at the Israeli consulate


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Actually the funniest lie I remember of Roudy's was an entirely innocent one - does anyone remember when he claimed to have met Leonard Cohen - and Cohen was surprised to be recognised??!!
> 
> That really was hilarious stuff.
> 
> Roudy - as I said earlier, my only interest in where you claim to be from is humour value. Make up whatever stories you like.


Yes I did meet him, and Roger Moore, and Tom Cruise, and many many many other celebrities and important people which I meet regularly due to my line of work. Hard to believe eh?


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

toastman said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


But somehow he knows better.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > The fact that you keep brining up your "travels" as a defense means you are highly insecure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No you keep attacking posters and telling them they can't and don't know what they're talking about because they haven't been to certain countries.  Which is not true. I have seen you do this to many people, on many forums.  Your ignorance is only surpassed by your arrogance. In fact it is your arrogance that is your worst enemy because you don't realize how stupid you really are.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

toastman said:


> You don't have to go to the army if you live in Israel. Only if you are born there !
> I have an Israeli passport (I'm born and raised in Montreal, Quebec) and I received a letter when I turned 18 that said I had to join the army. But since I was living in Canada and was a student, I was able to clear it up at the Israeli consulate



Yes, non-residents usually do not have to serve. Though it might be worth checking if you move to Israel at some point if you are still less than....is it 30 or 35?

It is perhaps more complicated than you imagine for non-citizens of Israel resident in Israel - it depends on what type of visa you have, and if you are a permanant resident or not. I'm not suggesting tourists or people on 3 month work visas get called up. 

Roudy claims he LIVED in Israel - hence, if he was there over a year and was under 30 or 35, he would have received papers. I did. One of my English friends did service, actually, and took citizenship when he joined. 

Here is the legal provision:

"The Israel Cabinet presented to Parliament today a series of amendments to the compulsory military service law aimed at conscription of Israeli residents whose citizenship status may have changed. The bill will be debated in the Knesset in mid-October.

The measure would make eligible for service tourists who stayed in Israel until their visas had expired and have not renewed their tourist status or who have asked for visas as temporary or permanent residents of the Jewish State. Also, the regulation would provide for compulsory military service for certain categories of Israelis who hold dual citizenship.

Finally, the amendments include provisions for the recall of Israelis rejected for service for medical disabilities to determine whether their conditions still bar them from service"

http://archive.jta.org/article/1958/10/01/3056433/israel-cabinet-amends-military-service-law-for-noncitizens


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Actually the funniest lie I remember of Roudy's was an entirely innocent one - does anyone remember when he claimed to have met Leonard Cohen - and Cohen was surprised to be recognised??!!
> ...


By the way see so many so called celebrities I really don't think it's a big deal they are just people that want to live normal lives and not be hounded by these Paparazzi Jackals. 

Did you know many celebrities such as Britney Spears use a firm that provides ex Israeli commandos as body guards?  And like politicians, they use decoy vehicles to throw the Paparazzi off their scent.

My highlight was when I met Dennis Tito, the American who paid the Russians 20 million to let him go to space, after being snubbed by NASA. Apparently that is all he talks about, despite all his great achievements. Short classy guy, very down to earth, do it yourself hands on type of person.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > You don't have to go to the army if you live in Israel. Only if you are born there !
> ...


Yes I lived in Israel over a year.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

> and telling them they can't and don't know what they're talking about because they haven't been to certain countries.



I figure most people in the Middle East forum HAVE been to Lebanon, Malaysia...wherever we are discussing. Otherwise I don't really get why people would be SO interested. 

Certainly quite a few of us have been. 

It doesn't mean other people can't have an opinion - but it is a bit like telling someone about a movie you haven't seen - when they have seen it. 

Some forums have a genetlemen's agreement - only post about countries you have some knowledge of, be it travel, tertiary study etc. 

Whenever you post about Indonesia I howl like a banshee - you spell place names wrong, don't know which island is what religion...it's just hilarious. Particularly if there are other posters who've met the damn president!!


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Yes I lived in Israel over a year.



Ok, great - now we are getting somewhere.

So if you didn't serve in the IDF - how did you get out of it?

I'm actually really interested now...!


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Yes I lived in Israel over a year.
> ...


Maybe he was in the US Army. They have Americans stationed there.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > and telling them they can't and don't know what they're talking about because they haven't been to certain countries.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The middle east forum, Israel Palestine forum, global etc. do not have this rule, yet you constantly attack posters for that reason. Funny part is YOU ASSUME that, and you aren't really that observant to be able to tell.  With me I can almost tell immediately.


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


Age?  Yes they do, I actually played tackle football without padding with them.


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

> With me I can almost tell immediately.



Oh me too!

It's very clear to me you have travelled very, very, very little in this world. Not even to places I tend to assume almost everyone has been to at some point. 

I think it was when you didn't seem to know where Metullah or Gilo were that I figured you hadn't been to Israel. 

As for Iran, it seemed VERY strange to me that Iranian wouldn't know the importance of the Shah drinking alcohol on Iranian TV, and toasting the President of the US with champagne. 

But...who knows....I'm keen to see what you come up with on this one.


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > and telling them they can't and don't know what they're talking about because they haven't been to certain countries.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Speaking of Malaysia  did you hear the latest coming from the President of the Philippines?

Philippines Urges Clan to Leave Malaysia Village - ABC News


----------



## Saigon (Feb 27, 2013)

Hoss - 

I've been vaguely following this story for years, after reading a book which alleged cannibalism had taken place in some remote Sarawak villages, against Muslim Indonesian settlers. A bit like the fighting in Ambon, there are a lot of tensions beneath the surface. They are difficult conflicts to read.

What the hell any Filipino's are doing in Sabah I have no idea. That's just crazy.


----------



## Lipush (Feb 27, 2013)

Ohhhh, ohhhh! Who served in the IDF here?


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 27, 2013)

Lipush said:


> Ohhhh, ohhhh! Who served in the IDF here?



Pics or it didn't happen.


----------



## Lipush (Feb 27, 2013)

And in English?


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 27, 2013)




----------



## Lipush (Feb 27, 2013)

And in english?


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Feb 27, 2013)

Lipush said:


> And in english?



That phrase basically means show is pictures of you in the IDF or it didn't happen. Meaning prove it in a way........


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Hoss -
> 
> I've been vaguely following this story for years, after reading a book which alleged cannibalism had taken place in some remote Sarawak villages, against Muslim Indonesian settlers. A bit like the fighting in Ambon, there are a lot of tensions beneath the surface. They are difficult conflicts to read.
> 
> What the hell any Filipino's are doing in Sabah I have no idea. That's just crazy.


What are the Muslims doing in the Philippines anyway?  Don't they have enough Southeast Asian countries to inhabit and leave a predominately Catholic nation alone?


----------



## Lipush (Feb 27, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > And in english?
> ...



I do not put pictures of me as a soldier on websites. from many reasons;

Most important one is, that in my time of service it was strictly prohibited to take any photos in the Base. One who did it was expected to be punished and judged by the Base commander himself.

And _boy_, was he cruel


----------



## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > With me I can almost tell immediately.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dude, stop saying stupid things, for Gods sake.  Or as you say, Jesus wept, as Muslims say Mohammad killed.  The Shah of Iran toasted many dignitaries all the time, and it was usually on TV.  Drinking alcohol was not prohibited and generally acceptable.  We had two major beer breweries / local brands named Shams and Argo (yes same as the film).  All restaurants and hotels served alcohol openly.  The Shah toasting in Iran was the last reason for the upheaval.  Here is why the West, especially the UK and Jimmy Carter (worst president in history) conspired to remove the Shah:

Notice how prophetic he is, most of his statements are applicable to today:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imil1iIpIYA]Shah Of Iran Critisizing Britain - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv9S_05n68Y]The Shah of Iran's last interview before he died - YouTube[/ame]


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## Unkotare (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > With me I can almost tell immediately.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







You are such a pretentious douchebag that you have become a caricature of yourself at this point!


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## Unkotare (Feb 27, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > The fact that you keep brining up your "travels" as a defense means you are highly insecure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Hossfly (Feb 27, 2013)

Lipush said:


> BecauseIKnow said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...


Maybe Baghdad Bob can post some pictures in his Cub Scout uniform; and since he is still in school, perhaps some of him in his Boy Scout uniform.  Surely there must be some troops made up of Muslim American youth in his area.


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## theliq (Feb 27, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > *Roudy's Lies #395,768*
> ...



Roudy,you are nearly right,the Philistines did live along the coastal strip between Akko and  Jaffa and to the northern edge of Gaza......the Palestinians also were in this coastal strip but extended southwards into Gaza and eastwards to the Jordan River.steve but as you correctly stated Palestinians are NOT the Philistines.

Archies have found remains and a culture which predates everyone including the Caananites,Moabites and Jews,somewhere east of Jerusalem...maybe you could let me know?steve


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## theliq (Feb 27, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


So did I but I never needed papers


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## Hossfly (Feb 27, 2013)

theliq said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


I didn't know mongrels would have papers.


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## theliq (Feb 27, 2013)

Roudy said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



That's nowhere near my wealth as YOU put it,Roudy.....I was just showing you where I lived other wise you would then complain I was a Bull Shit Artist,anyway you can't have it both ways.

And Loudy,remember this......I started my business with nothing,Have never been motivated unlike you probably by money........you only get wealth three ways...by cheating people,inherited wealth, and like me through BLOODY HARD WORK and doing the right thing.........just saying  steve As you can see I don't have any hangups and if I was poor I would say so,I have nothing to hide.

My Mom was widowed at 28 with 6 children.....I know hardship,I know poverty...but I also know love and affection,and later in life a certain amount of wealth......but love and affection,and caring for people is the most important thing......that is why I wish to see a happy life for Israelis and Palestinians....why would you and the possee want to continue this dreadful schizum,between the majority of these two wonderful peoples......Answer me that.


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## theliq (Feb 27, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Well thanks Hoss for your description of me as a MONGREL....well I'm not alone,most humans are a mixture(a mongrel as YOU put it).......I'm PROUD OF MY ANCESTORS....and so should you be.....You Mongrel.I like it when you use such descriptive words...When you know full well we are similar.......I have noticed your aggresive edge towards me lately,is it because I am not circumsized......sorry but circumspect will have to do for now.....steve


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## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

Unkotare said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > > With me I can almost tell immediately.
> ...


You got that right!  As I said before, his ignorance is only surpassed by his arrogance.


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## Hossfly (Feb 27, 2013)

theliq said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...


Why would anyone on this forum care if you were circumcised or not?  That was a very silly statement for you to make, Stevie.  You could be a eunuch for all we care.


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## theliq (Feb 27, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
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I was teasing but you are right Hoss....but I would mind if I was a EunuchBloody Hell NO MANHOOD,I'm crossing my legs at such a though!!!!!!!


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## Roudy (Feb 27, 2013)

theliq said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...


Do you really want a happy life for the Israelis?  Why then do you feel they have to be subjected to Islamic barbarism and surrender to terrorists?  Why all the blood libel type lies about Israel?  

I appreciate and empathize what you went through. Now imagine someone like myself, who's family had to escape from TWO Muslim countries, and start a whole new life from scratch.  In a place where you have no friends, family, you don't know the language, you aren't familiar with the culture, you don't know our way around.  Imagine living during the Islamic revolution, where they've put a famiy member in prison and are tortiring them on a daily basis, for no reason.  Imagine friends, someone's child, and other people in the community being taken away in the middle of the next and EXECUTED by an "islamic" court  within in 24 hours.  Imagine everything you worked for all your life being confiscated and stolen, just because you are a Jew, or Christian, or a Bahaii.  I saw this with my own eyes  and experienced this Steve.  This is what Islam is and Muslims do.

But "we" don't whine and keep blaming others.


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## theliq (Feb 28, 2013)

Roudy said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Loudy.Respect to you and your family.I know not your ethnicity and I don't care because I get on with everyone as individuals.......but you could let me know....I have travelled most countries and I will start with Iran,run by a pack of DESPOTS in my opinion,most Iranians are good people,but you have this Idiotic Medieval Mentality with the religious and political leaders since the over throw of the Shar(even he went too far)...but for the decent Iranians today life is pretty Grim.....the treatment of minorities like the Fasi's,Jews etc., has been appauling...You would know that a lot better than I.

Iraq was a little better,tell me if I'm wrong apart from the Kurds,one thing you must acknowleged about Saddam he did at least allow women to participate in life,jobs etc.,but your experience was maybe different....which I would be pleased to discuss with you.

The treatment of the Palestinians too was horrible and repressive....I wish to see peace between both peoples.....sometimes on here I feel I'm the only one.

It would be the fairest thing but you must admit the Israelis have been moving the GOAL POSTS with all this illegal building..........ect,.

Fundamentalist of all RELIGIONS in my opinion are the CURSE and reason for all the BLOODLETTING........As they have NO Reasoning.steve


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## irosie91 (Feb 28, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


> Oh you poor little bunny, those evil, evil Palestinians.



  The fact that muslims destroy the holy sites of other people and restrict 
access when they can is not a  "palestinian'   issue----it is a MUSLIM ISSUE.
It is a window into the soul of islam and reveals the nature of the creed. 
It reveals that which muslims fear and their vulnerability.    The entire 
ummah would go into meltdown if  a few tons of pig shit were dropped 
on  the silly black rock and the  tomb of the rapist pig


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## Unkotare (Feb 28, 2013)

theliq said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...




You were already house trained?


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## theliq (Feb 28, 2013)

Unkotare said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



YES INDEED


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## Lipush (Feb 28, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > BecauseIKnow said:
> ...


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## Hossfly (Feb 28, 2013)

theliq said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...


If you are sympathetic to Roudy's life experiences and he explains what happened and why, then how can you not recognize how Iran directs terrorism to all the Islamic terrorists in the world but can't see how it trickles down through Hezbollah to Hamas to the "Resistance Fighters?"


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## ima (Feb 28, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


And the US directs all the Christian terrorists (like themselves) in the world.
And roudy is a closeted gay man.
So what?


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## Roudy (Feb 28, 2013)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...


Now that was funny. Ima.


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## Hossfly (Feb 28, 2013)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...


Maybe transsexuals think they know who is Gay or not.  Is that what you are trying to tell us, Frau Ima?  Now pull up your bloomers.


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## Roudy (Feb 28, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


Closet homosexuals always think everybody else is one like themselves.  I wonder if Ima is one of those homosexuals that has a "gaydar"?  LOL


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## ima (Feb 28, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



I've already said in another thread that I'm a lesbian. At least I'm honest with myself.


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## Roudy (Feb 28, 2013)

ima said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


That reminds me. Back in the prehistoric days when I used to bar hop, if a girl told me she's a lesbian I would answer "that's okay, I'm not jealous, you can bring her along"  

Do you have short hair and wear biker leather outfits, with rings through your tongue, nose and lips?


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## Hossfly (Feb 28, 2013)

Roudy said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


"Rings on her fingers, bells on her toes, so she can have music, wherever she goes."


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## Roudy (Feb 28, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


The ring in the middle of your tongue has got to be one of the grossest things I have ever seen.  How do you do that to yourself?  I mean that's where you consume food from.  

Actually, tattoos, rings, or piercing area big turnoff for me.  It's a signal for "been around the block" or "total slut".  Although, I have to admit, the tattoo business is booming now.  And thanks to that, so is the TATTOO REMOVAL business.  I know a tattoo removal doctor / business owner that is happy that getting tattoos is such a big fad now.


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## ima (Feb 28, 2013)

Roudy said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



I look normal, I even have kids. Guys hit on me all the time thinking I'm a single mom.


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## toastman (Feb 28, 2013)

ima said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



You're a psychopathic retard who keeps saying Israel will be nuked. You are nothing but a Nazi WITCH hahahaha


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## toastman (Feb 28, 2013)

Just found a pic of ima


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## ima (Feb 28, 2013)

toastman said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



I'm not saying that I WANT Israel to get nuked, only a nutter would say that, I said that if they don't make peace, the likelyhood of them getting zapped is real.


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## ima (Feb 28, 2013)

toastman said:


> Just found a pic of ima



Still better looking than you I'm sure.


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## toastman (Feb 28, 2013)

ima said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



Hmm, interesting. Israel already made peace with Egypt and Jordan, and offered a peace treaty with Syria for the Golan Heights. What have the Palestinians or other Arab countries offered for peace?


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## Roudy (Feb 28, 2013)

ima said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


Do have adopted kids from a legal union or from a prior husband or boyfriend?


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## Roudy (Feb 28, 2013)

toastman said:


> Just found a pic of ima


Look what you did...Now made me all horny!  Alluhuakbar!


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## toastman (Feb 28, 2013)

Hahaha ! Praise be Allah, the greatest God and the most merciful....or some shit like that


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## toastman (Feb 28, 2013)

toastman said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



Well, ima ??? You keep saying it's Israel that needs to make peace with its neighbours, but you can't answer this simple question


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## theliq (Feb 28, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Well I have NEVER said I do.......the lines get Blurred when it comes to such things but the real question and original question,Why did America and Israel....promote,fund and arm Hamas in the first place ???? we are not talking a few sheikels here.....They created Hamas and they have morphed into a political party and fairly won the election in GAZA which was highly scrutinized and FAIR.......you can't have it both ways because they won the election fair and square........Israel now have to negotiate with them as a legitimate representatives of the Palestinians.

but for a moment one should never forget how Oliver North moved Weapons to Iran to fight Americans Allie Iraq at the time......via the Contra.......a bigger deciet would be harder to find.  All Arms distribution world wide is a question of the status-quo......and it is a filthy business by all sides.........it's just a matter of where you stand.steve

I appreciate Roudys comments,and although uncomfortable reading,it was and still is a very important part of his and his families life....for which their fortitude, in a terrible situation,should be admired.

In Palestine and for the Palestinians (and to Israelis to a degree) this is a situation they have been in for the past 60 years......and it's horrendous.

My desire for these two nations is well documented.

For Roudy there has been an end(but memories still exist) for him and his family because they eventually found freedom and a home,and no matter what side of the fence you stand..That is a very Good thing.

Now for the Palestinians and Israelis....sooner than later I hope.steve

ps excuse the spelling and grammar today

and Iran are often a rogue State,.


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## ima (Mar 1, 2013)

toastman said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



The Pals offered to let Israel be. That's big.


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## toastman (Mar 1, 2013)

ima said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



Hahaha what? The Pals have no say wether Israel can be, nor do they have the capability to destroy Israel. It's the Fakestinians who should be thanking Israel for letting them stay around haha


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## irosie91 (Mar 1, 2013)

toastman said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...




    try to understand the mindset-----the islamo nazi approach over the 
 past  14 centuries has been    "we are willing to allow you to live 
if you cooperate with our need to rape, pillage  and enslave you"


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## ima (Mar 1, 2013)

toastman said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



Isn't the destruction of Israel prophesied in your bible?


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## irosie91 (Mar 1, 2013)

ima said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...




The prophecy of the bible is that  Israel will not be destroyed----
why do you care?


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## ima (Mar 1, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



Since 9/11, I think most Americans care a bit more about what goes on in the Middle East, we don't want it to happen again. And some of our oil comes from there...


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## Roudy (Mar 1, 2013)

ima said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


Israel's destruction is not prophesied in any of the three religious books. In fact, quite the opposite.


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## Roudy (Mar 1, 2013)

ima said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


Was that before or after they shot thousands of missiles into Israel?  Ha ha.


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## Roudy (Mar 1, 2013)

toastman said:


> Hahaha ! Praise be Allah, the greatest God and the most merciful....or some shit like that


Do you have her / his / it's phone number?  I'd like to go out on a date. 

"for I walk in the shadow of death...the Lord is my sheperd..."


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## ima (Mar 1, 2013)

Roudy said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



It was after Israel stole their land.


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## theliq (Mar 1, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



The reality of todays world is that Israel can and should not be destroyed,this is naive to think such a thing.

The Palestinians should be granted their own land,where it's people are entitled to,as a dispossed nation in reality today 2013 this is their best hope,this negotiation is the most important....History to a degree has passed them by,it's not fair in anyway how this occured but they and the Israelis have to decide and how much and how.

Regrettably so many nations throughout history have found themselves in this situation,the Native Americans,the Australian Aboriginals and the Jews themselves,etc,.

I Arab nations have not helped the Palestinians  They Like The Status Quo,Platitudes mean nothing without real help....as far as the Palestinian Cause they have just been a load of TALKING HEADS with NO BACKBONE.

Only Israel and the Palestinians can resolve this situation,there have been moments in the past but NO ONE wanted to Grasp the NETTLE in the end.

Intransigence has been the RESULT,and continued BLOODSHED.

steve


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## Saigon (Mar 2, 2013)

toastman said:


> Hahaha ! Praise be Allah, the greatest God and the most merciful....or some shit like that



I am always surprised when Zionists suggest that their strongest case is based on hate speech and insulting other people's religion. 

To my mind it is EXACTLY this kind of posting which determines that much Zonism is considered nothing more than racism in action.


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## irosie91 (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Hahaha ! Praise be Allah, the greatest God and the most merciful....or some shit like that
> ...





  I am never suprised when  islamo nazis comment on
 language  used by jews -----since WORDS are so important to 
jihadists that even their infants are  prone to lisp  out    
"KUS ACHTAH"  at no provocation and for the entertainment 
of their doting mothers  ------- "ITBACH AL YAHUD"------thus 
demonstrating that they have been PROPERLY REARED in the 
shariah mode.   The pleasure that jihadist mothers 
evince when their tiny offspring throw a  "KHALBAH"   
at any woman decorated with a cross or star of david 
----is   truly 'touching'
              anyone interested in  "racism"   should learn 
a few choice words in arabic----and make him (her)self 
obviously not muslim-----and mingle in a crowd of muslims.
  (saigon is playing dim)


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## Saigon (Mar 2, 2013)

Rosie - 

The fact that you sink to the depths of childishness everyone someone calls on your hate speech and racism tells us everything we need to know about you. 

Facts and honesty are not signs of fascism or supporting terror - rather of preventing both from occurring.


btw, bauble, I have spent A LOT more time in crowds of Muslims than you ever will.


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## irosie91 (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Rosie -
> 
> The fact that you sink to the depths of childishness everyone someone calls on your hate speech and racism tells us everything we need to know about you.
> 
> ...




try to be a bit more specific    saigon-----I simply mentioned 
the vocabulary I learned in my interaction with muslims over 
the past more than 40 years  ------would you like some of the 
well worn words that I thus learned in urdu?     I do admit---I 
never picked up any farsi-----it is possible that incesant verbal 
 denigration of kaffirin is not an Iranian muslim habit.  Lets 
ask roudy


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## Saigon (Mar 2, 2013)

Rosie - 

You have absolutely no idea whatsoever what Muslims crowds are like, nor Muslim cities nor Muslim countries. Everything you believe you know is myth, heresay and gossip. 

You should try spending some time in Dakar, Istanbul, Dhaka or Maumere, but it is very clear why you nevr have and never will - ignorance and experience are polar opposites. You choose for the former, and deny the latter.


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## irosie91 (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Rosie -
> 
> You have absolutely no idea whatsoever what Muslims crowds are like, nor Muslim cities nor Muslim countries. Everything you believe you know is myth, heresay and gossip.
> 
> You should try spending some time in Dakar, Istanbul, Dhaka or Maumere, but it is very clear why you nevr have and never will - ignorance and experience are polar opposites. You choose for the former, and deny the latter.




Saigon----I do not have to go to Istanbul---I live in a city chock 
full of muslims -----all I have to do is go to grocery stores and 
kosher luncheonettes-      I have socialized with muslim colleagues 
and been invited to mosques.    My husband was born in a shariah 
shit hole and often encounters his own countrymen----but ALWAYS 
denies knowing a word of arabic thus providing free range to their 
social interaction in his presence


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## Roudy (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Rosie -
> 
> The fact that you sink to the depths of childishness everyone someone calls on your hate speech and racism tells us everything we need to know about you.
> 
> ...


Here we go again with the "I have spend time in ....." crap.  You just won't give it up will you?


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## Saigon (Mar 2, 2013)

> --I do not have to go to Istanbul



Well, if you want to talk about what it is like to be in a crowd of Muslims, then of course you do. At the moment you have absolutely what it is like to be in a crowd of Muslims - you might as well talk about sky diving.


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## Saigon (Mar 2, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Here we go again with the "I have spend time in ....." crap.  You just won't give it up will you?



No, I will never give it up. 

Everytime you guys post your fantasies - I'll post the realities. 

Rosie has NEVER walked down a muslim street, so is hardly in a position to tell other people what it is like. I walk down Muslim streets all the time, and will be doing so again later this year.

The best things guys could do is to grow a pair of balls, head off to the likes of Senegal, Jordan, Turkey and Indonesia, and get up to speed.


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## ima (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Here we go again with the "I have spend time in ....." crap.  You just won't give it up will you?
> ...



4 crap holes. You really expect anyone to vacation there? Well, except a Finn of course.


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## Roudy (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > --I do not have to go to Istanbul
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if you want to talk about what it is like to be in a crowd of Muslims, then of course you do. At the moment you have absolutely what it is like to be in a crowd of Muslims - you might as well talk about sky diving.


Wow you are so fulla shit its not even funny.  I have been around crowds of Muslims, in fact I lived through a revolution. And irose is 100% correct. 

This experience you talk about sure as hell doesn't show because you sound like an ignoramus. Still waiting....


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## Roudy (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Hahaha ! Praise be Allah, the greatest God and the most merciful....or some shit like that
> ...


Really now, toastman posting a picture of a transvestite and joking about it translates to "Zionism is racism in action"?  You let your true colors show this time.


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## toastman (Mar 2, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



He calls me a racist, yet knows nothing about me. i have Arab friends. He is just trying to vilify those evil Joooooos . Nothing new here


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## Roudy (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Here we go again with the "I have spend time in ....." crap.  You just won't give it up will you?
> ...


Those are not countries that requires balls to travel to, dipshit. Wow, you so fucking ignorant its not even funny.


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## Roudy (Mar 2, 2013)

toastman said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


Its pathetic, imposters like Saigooon that roam the internet.  For someone who claims to have "traveled" a lot, he has the perceptiveness of a chimp. For the longest time he kept telling me the same crap over and over. It blew his fuse when I told him my background.  He still has a hard time believing me. 

He's basically a very insecure person who feels the need to mention that he's traveled, all the time, when he's loosing arguments.  As if everybody else hasn't ever been abroad.  

As far as racism. Did you know Saigoooon was / is a stormfront regular?  That's about the worst website for racists and anti Semites you can find. He'll give you all kinds of excuses as to why he's a REGULAR there. All of them not believable. You usually post on a website when you find people who's views you agree with. I'm sure on stormfront he found a lot of fellow haters that agreed with his recent statement that "Zionism is racism in action". LOL


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## Saigon (Mar 2, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



So....I've been to the 4 countries mentioned, and you haven't been to any of them...and I'm ignorant?

Brilliant.


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## Saigon (Mar 2, 2013)

> He is just trying to vilify those evil Joooooos



That really is insulting - not to me, but to Jews and Judaism. 

I am not cricising Israel, nor Jews, nor Judaism - I am criticising your use of racism and hate speech. Playing the anti-Semitic card in such a situation is something you should be ashamed of. 

Again - I have lived in Israel and love the country and the people. What I do not love is your use of hate speech.



> As if everybody else hasnt ever been abroad.



Not at all - most posters here seem to be quite well traveled. You and Rosie seem to be exceptions.



> It blew his fuse when I told him my background



Did it? I don't think I even saw it in the end. Can you give me a post # where I can go and check it?


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## Roudy (Mar 2, 2013)

ima said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


Ever since his conversion to Islam, his goal is to pray in various mosques around the world. The one in Turkey is special to him, because they took a beautiful Church and called it a Muslim structure.


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## Roudy (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


No, nothing special or relevant about those countries.  Nor does that make you right.  I know many people who have been to Timbuktu, how is that relevant?  

You make me puke with your "I've been here you haven't Nya Nya Nya" bullshit. Every discussion you have on this board always ends up here.  Only a classless ignorant person coming from a drek background would feel the need to do what you're doing.


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## Saigon (Mar 2, 2013)

Roudy - 

How would you know it's beautiful?

You've never seen it, and you never will.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 2, 2013)

Roudy said:


> No, nothing special or relevant about those countries.  Nor does that make you right.  I know many people who have been to Timbuktu, how is that relevant?
> 
> You make me puke with your "I've been here you haven't Nya Nya Nya" bullshit. Every discussion you have on this board always ends up here.  Only a classless ignorant person coming from a drek background would feel the need to do what you're doing.



It's relevent because it separates informed opinion from gossip. 

I understand something about countries like Bangladesh, Turkey and Indonesia because I have spent a bit of time in each of them; I've read their histories, talked to normal everyday people, and in some cases met their politicians and leaders. 

This takes years, of course, but it is the ONLY way any of us can build up a realistic image of what the world is really like. 

Anything else is second-hand information at best.

btw, As a general rule, people with "drek" backgrounds don't meet a lot of world leaders!!


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## Roudy (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > He is just trying to vilify those evil Joooooos
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You don't love Israel and its people, that's quite obvious. I have met other people who have "traveled to Israel" yet remain Jew haters, because of their associations.  

Do you think we are stupid like you, and don't understand what't going on here?  Based on the countries you have listed you have been to so far, which are majority Muslim, it seems that you have close ties and associations business or otherwise with Muslims.  

And there is no way they will even want to talk to you if you're not an anti semetic Israel hater like most of them are. And that's a fact, jack.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 2, 2013)

I'd also like to point out that there are a lot of very intelligent, very well read and very well-travelled people on this site. There is a lot of knowledge here, and dozens of opinions that are very worth listening to. 

Which only makes the deranged zoophiliac ranting from our resident anti-Semites and Islamophobes stand out in even more.


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## Saigon (Mar 2, 2013)

> You don't love Israel and its people, that's quite obvious.



Oh, absolutely I love the country. I feel a very deep passion for Israel, and for the Israeli people. 

But unlike you I also respect Israel enough to believe that the country is strong enough to stand on its own two feet. It did need special treatment in the 1950's and 1960's, but it doesn't any more. It can rely on truth and facts and justice, and Israel can achieve lasting piece if it works hard enough to do so. It will always survive,adn I hope the US and EU will always guarantee that. 

The hatred and racism you post here only makes that harder to achieve.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 2, 2013)

> Based on the countries you have listed you have been to so far, which are majority Muslim, it seems that you have close ties and associations business or otherwise with Muslims.



Not at all - I have travelled all over the world, mainly as a journalist. I've spent as much time in Asia and South America as I have in the Middle East, I guess. 

I've written quite a lot about Islamic countries, but I've written more about Africa and Eastern Europe during the past 10 years. 

This year I'll probably cover Senegal, The Gambia, Serbia, Croatia and Chernobyl. If you see any kind of pattern in that, I'd like to know what it is!


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## Roudy (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > No, nothing special or relevant about those countries.  Nor does that make you right.  I know many people who have been to Timbuktu, how is that relevant?
> ...


Ha ha ha!  As usual you are e legend in your own mind.  Ten people can visit the same exact country, go to the same places, meet the same people and come back with very different points of view.  Of course someone with your drek background and biases, would come back with your own "skewed" version.  

And based on your constant lack of perceptiveness you have shown on this board, who would be interested in your opinions on world affairs?  Really Saigoon, you are one of the dumbest most ignorant people I have met.  And you've said some of the most outragiously stupid things on this board, that made even the most vile Palestinian terrorist lovers blush.   

It doesn't seem that your travels have helped at all.  But keep it up up. One day you will surprise us and say something intelligent.


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## Roudy (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > Based on the countries you have listed you have been to so far, which are majority Muslim, it seems that you have close ties and associations business or otherwise with Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ha ha ha!  A legend in your own mind as I said.  The dumbass that hired you as a journalist should be fired. You have difficulty knowing who's who on this very board. Your observations and opinions are worthless drek.


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## Hossfly (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Rosie -
> 
> You have absolutely no idea whatsoever what Muslims crowds are like, nor Muslim cities nor Muslim countries. Everything you believe you know is myth, heresay and gossip.
> 
> You should try spending some time in Dakar, Istanbul, Dhaka or Maumere, but it is very clear why you nevr have and never will - ignorance and experience are polar opposites. You choose for the former, and deny the latter.


Does it count that I have spent many months on the eastern border of Turkey, east of Erzurum at American military sites? I especially liked it in the winter time in January when the average temperature is -15 F. When we wanted to drive to the nearest village for liquid refreshment, each man was required to carry a 12 guage shotgun, for protection from wild dogs that roamed by the hundreds. That's a little more "mingling with the crowds of Muslims" than  hanging around internet cafes, opium dens and gay bars. Wouldn't you think? And FYI I have been in more countries than you would believe.


----------



## Roudy (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > You don't love Israel and its people, that's quite obvious.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, you respect Israelis because they are tough, strong, positive, fearless and highly intelligent people unlike what you've seen anywhere in the world. You wish you could be like them but you can't, which is yet another reason for your hatred and jealousy.  Nothing new though. The side you are rooting for are indefensible scumbags and murderers with no respect for life, and that's what bothers you.  

You are confused, on one hand you want to hold on to your hatred of Israel and Jews, and on the other hand you have seen they aren't the horned demons painted by the Muslim world and anti Semites. You are shifty at best.


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## Hossfly (Mar 2, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Rosie -
> ...


BTW the liquid refreshment was raki, we called it (Who Hit John?). Not only would it murder you, it would wilt the biggest plants in the biggest flower pots in about 3 hours. And the hotel people would wonder what kind of blight was killing their flowers.


----------



## Roudy (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> I'd also like to point out that there are a lot of very intelligent, very well read and very well-travelled people on this site. There is a lot of knowledge here, and dozens of opinions that are very worth listening to.
> 
> Which only makes the deranged zoophiliac ranting from our resident anti-Semites and Islamophobes stand out in even more.


Travel travel travel.  That's all you have to say. This is not the travel site. This is an opinion board.   Whether or not you have traveled to a country does not render an opinion on said country and people wrong by default. I have met many people who have read up and are more informed than people who have actually traveled to the same country. Especially if they are educated and traveled to similar countries. 

There should a new violation placed in the rules section of this board to prevent bullying  assholes like you from negating a persons opinion based on whether they've traveled to a specific place or not.


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## Saigon (Mar 2, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Does it count that I have spent many months on the eastern border of Turkey, east of Erzurum at American military sites? I especially liked it in the winter time in January when the average temperature is -15 F. When we wanted to drive to the nearest village for liquid refreshment, each man was required to carry a 12 guage shotgun, for protection from wild dogs that roamed by the hundreds. That's a little more "mingling with the crowds of Muslims" than  hanging around internet cafes, opium dens and gay bars. Wouldn't you think? And FYI I have been in more countries than you would believe.



Damn, that is a tough area! I've only been there in summer - I was in Diyabakir and Sanli Urfa one summer. I didn't like the area much at all, although Sanli is beautiful. 

That must have been an amazing experience and a great insight - the only downside being that as a man in uniform I guess you get strong reactions sometimes. 

How many countries have you been to? I always enjoy swapping traveller stories! (You can always PM me if you prefer)


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## ima (Mar 2, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Rosie -
> ...



What's the US army doing there? Making sure the heroin gets through?


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## Saigon (Mar 2, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Travel travel travel.  That's all you have to say. This is not the travel site. This is an opinion board.   Whether or not you have traveled to a country does not render an opinion on said country and people wrong by default. I have met many people who have read up and are more informed than people who have actually traveled to the same country. Especially if they are educated and traveled to similar countries.
> 
> There should a new violation placed in the rules section of this board to prevent bullying  assholes like you from negating a persons opinion based on whether they've traveled to a specific place or not.



Travel is not enough by itself. Not everyone who travels wants to learn history or culture or listen to what taxi drivers talk about. 

But travel allows an opportunity that can not be gained any other way. If you read some books and talk to people and travel with an open mind - it all opens up, sooner or later. 

btw - Would you consider your incessant name calling, insults and off-topic abuse to be bullying?


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## Hossfly (Mar 2, 2013)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


Making sure the Rooskies didn't get thru.


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## ima (Mar 2, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



Ya, because we care so much about losing turkey!


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## Roudy (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> How would you know it's beautiful?
> 
> You've never seen it, and you never will.


Wow.  Again that was one of your stupid ignorant comments. Unbelievable how stupid you can be. So the only way to appreciate a beautiful painting like Mona Lisa, or a structure, is to see it, there is no other way?  

As I said before your stupidity is only superseded by your arrogance.


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## Roudy (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Travel travel travel.  That's all you have to say. This is not the travel site. This is an opinion board.   Whether or not you have traveled to a country does not render an opinion on said country and people wrong by default. I have met many people who have read up and are more informed than people who have actually traveled to the same country. Especially if they are educated and traveled to similar countries.
> ...


Oh okay so you got your opinions from Taxi drivers. Ha ha ha.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 2, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy -
> ...



No, it's basic truth. 

I know Istanbul very well - it's often my base for both East Africa and the Middle East. I've been to the Aya Sofia, Sulayman the Magnificent Mosque and so forth a dozen times. I know the history, know the region, and have a couple of Turkish friends I try and see when I'm there. 

Rather than descend into your usual tantrums and spite, just accept the fact that firsthand experience IS important, and move on. It also be worth your while posting more about places and topics you do genuinely know something about.



> So the only way to appreciate a beautiful painting like Mona Lisa, or a structure, is to see it, there is no other way?



*Yes. *

I think it's over-rated by the way. The Delacroix paintings a couple of galleries away from the Mona Lisa are far more impressive.


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## Roudy (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


You just made no sense at all again. Nobody is discounting "first hand experience". You are A- claiming that firsthand experience is the only experience that counts, and negates other opinions, and B- Only YOUR version of said first hand experience is correct.  Which it usually isn't as we have seen on this board.

Regarding the paintings another person could look at the same two and come back with a different perspective. In my opinion the beauty of the Mona Lisa is in the smile, what she's smiling about, and IF she's even really smiling.


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## ima (Mar 2, 2013)

ima said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


Senegal is China's problem, Jordan is the US' problem, Turkey is NATO's problem and Indonesia blows up tourists (and is Nike's problem). What are you doing in these places anyways? Can't get heroin at home?


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## Hossfly (Mar 2, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


Mona Lisa was probably experiencing a gas attack and 'ol Leon wouldn't let her go to the WC.


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## Roudy (Mar 2, 2013)

ima said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


See?  You say smart things like that and impress me, and then you turn around and make some pretty nasty racist comment as if you're a neo Nazi white supremacist.


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## Roudy (Mar 2, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


Sounds plausible, actually.


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## Saigon (Mar 2, 2013)

> You are A- claiming that firsthand experience is the only experience that counts,



Yes - but of course first hand experience is only useful if you have the knowledge to make sense of it. 

Travel alone isn't enough. We all have to do read the history and talk to people and do the footwork to get some kind of insight into the world. I learned a lot about Turkey by spending time in Armenia and Georgia, to build up a regional perspective, for instance. 

But without firsthand experience, it is extremely unlikely that anyone can learn much of any value. Ghana doesn't exist in a book. Want to understand Ghana? Get a room at the Nigara in Asylum Downs. Bring ear plugs.

Art is subjective. You like the Mona Lisa, I prefer Mondriaan.

Facts are not subjective. There are facts, and then there is gossip.*

*Suggesting that Palestinian nationalisn only began in th 1960's is neither - it's simply dishonest.


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## Jroc (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > You are A- claiming that firsthand experience is the only experience that counts,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The problem is Arab nationalism which began after WWI not "Palestinian" nationalism


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## Lipush (Mar 2, 2013)

Jroc said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > > You are A- claiming that firsthand experience is the only experience that counts,
> ...


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## irosie91 (Mar 2, 2013)

Lipush said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...




   good insight ---who ever it is who said it----ARAB NATIONISM  is indeed 
   THE PROBLEM ----but do not leave out the fact that  ARAB NATIONALISM 
   has morphed into    PAN ISLAMICISM  

   The fact of the existence of  ARAB NATIONALISM  post world war I ---in 
   NO WAY proves or even suggests that  " arabs"  (ie arabic 
   speaking muslims)   living in palestine for the approximately 1100 years
   PRIOR to world war I  considered themselves  "palestinians"  or were 
   so considered by anyone else.----They were   MIDDLE EASTERN MUSLIMS 
   no different from  muslims in Jordan  (transjordan) or syria   

   Saigon seems to have forgotten that muslims  PRIDE  themselves 
   in REJECTING  strandard  "nationalism"   in favor of   "HOLY 
   ISLAMICISM"        the best way to learn about what goes on in 
   the minds of people is to talk to them candidly------and even better 
   with LEGAL CONFIDENTIALITY------tea in the tent of a Bedouin 
   says nothing other than -----"hospitality"  is a bedouin norm


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## Jroc (Mar 2, 2013)

Lipush said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...





A Jewish state in the middle of what is considered by Arabs to be their land can't be tolerated, which is why until the Arabs recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state there can never be any peace





> *What is Arab Nationalism?*
> 
> "Arab Nationalism, like most other Middle Eastern nationalisms, was a child of the intellectual atmosphere of the nineteenth century and one of many responses to the process of incorporation of the world into a single system with Europe at its center which that century witnessed. Like these other ideologies, Arab nationalism in its fully developed form represented an expression of identity and of group solidarity within the projected new format of the nation-state by an amalgam of old elites and new social forces at once desirous of seeing their society resist control by outside forces and deeply influenced by the example and the challenge of the West.
> 
> ...




What is Arab Nationalism? - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org


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## Lipush (Mar 2, 2013)

Jroc said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > Jroc said:
> ...



I agree.


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## irosie91 (Mar 2, 2013)

thanks whoever posted up the essay titled  WHAT IS ARAB NATIONALISM 
  were I the professor----I would give that essay an   A+


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## irosie91 (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > You are A- claiming that firsthand experience is the only experience that counts,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




  wrong again    saigon ---you are CONFUSING  arab nationalism with  
something you are calling    'palestinian nationalism'   


as to my experience-----I assure you ----I have had experiences with people 
of MANY MANY cultures on a level that you will never know----nor will I tell you
-----it would be illegal in some of the instances and unethical in others

there is a difference between  "nationalism"   and religion.     arab 
nationalism is  actually   ISLAMICISM----sometimes broken up a bit 
by sectarianism  within islam.    In todays world----the unifying 
feature within islam is  ISLAMICISM ----but that fact does not 
prevent    customary   shiite murder of sunnis ----and reciprocal 
bombs.    I find it hard to believe that   the  shiites of Iran can maintain 
alliances with sunni  al queida


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## Roudy (Mar 2, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > > You are A- claiming that firsthand experience is the only experience that counts,
> ...


Exactly.  He does the same thing with Phiistine history. He attributes Philistine history to Arab Palestinian history, in an effort to legitimize their cause.  

 Funny part is he's not even a good liar, Because a few posts later he admits Philistines have nothing to do with Arab Palestinians. They say liars have bad memories.


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## Maryland (Mar 2, 2013)

You mean, Muhammad didn't travel to Jerusalem on that flying donkey, after all? I thought, Allah is the greatest, no?


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## Saigon (Mar 2, 2013)

Jroc said:


> The problem is Arab nationalism which began after WWI not "Palestinian" nationalism



And yet much of it was directed against Arabs. Odd.


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## Saigon (Mar 2, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Exactly.  He does the same thing with Phiistine history. He attributes Philistine history to Arab Palestinian history, in an effort to legitimize their cause.
> 
> Funny part is he's not even a good liar, Because a few posts later he admits Philistines have nothing to do with Arab Palestinians. They say liars have bad memories.



Philistines do not play a significant part in Palestinian history. 

I posted one section of text explaning this *SIX TIMES* last week alone, Roudy. Please stop pretending you didn't see it.


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## Maryland (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > The problem is Arab nationalism which began after WWI not "Palestinian" nationalism
> ...



Arabs didn't even begin calling themselves paliies until 1967.  Jews were also called palestinians under the British Mandate.

Arabs vehemently resisted the British name "palestine" for fear it was a Western device to sever Syria.

Pallies are merely Arabs.


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## Saigon (Mar 2, 2013)

Maryland - 

It's probably best you go and do some research on this, rather than just repeat the same myths that have been repeated - and rebutted - on this forum a dozen times. 

David Fromkin's 'Peace to End All Peace' is an excellent resource on this. 

It is not disputed by any informed source that Palestinian identity dates back to 1834 at the earliest, or 1914 at the latest.


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## Maryland (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland -
> 
> It's probably best you go and do some research on this, rather than just repeat the same myths that have been repeated - and rebutted - on this forum a dozen times.
> 
> ...



During the Ottoman Empire, there was no entity called "palestine"  The land was known by Jews as Eretz Yisrael [land of Israel] and Suriya al-Janubiyya [south Syria] by the Rabs  The British invented the name "palestine" after collapse of the Ottoman Empire in World War I.

Your history lesson


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## Saigon (Mar 2, 2013)

> The British invented the name "palestine" after collapse of the Ottoman Empire in World War I.



Actually, the name dats from 500 years before Christ, genius. It predates the Romans, the British and the Ottomans. 

The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece.[13] Herodotus wrote of a 'district of Syria, called Palaistinê" in The Histories, the first historical work clearly defining the region, which included the Judean mountains and the Jordan Rift Valley

Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As I suggested earlier - do some basic reading, and come back to us when you have at least some basic idea of the history.


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## Maryland (Mar 2, 2013)

Roudy said:


> *Myths and facts about Jerusalem and Temple Mount*
> 
> 1) The Islamic claim to the Temple Mount is very recent - Jerusalem's role as "The Third Holiest Site in Islam" in mainstream Islamic writings does not precede the 1930s. It was created by the grand mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini.
> 
> ...



Jerusalem appears 800 times in the Hebrew Bible.  The Book of Isaiah refers to Jerusalem as "Ir Haqodesh" Hebrew for The Holy City.

Number of times Jerusalem appears in the Koran: Zero, not even once.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 2, 2013)

Maryland said:


> Number of times Jerusalem appears in the Koran: Zero, not even once.



It is then specified in the Hadith, the sayings of the Prophet Mohammad, that the Al Aqsa Mosque is indeed located in Jerusalem:

That he heard Allah's Apostle saying, "When the people of Quraish did not believe me (i.e. the story of my Night Journey), I stood up in Al-Hijr and Allah displayed Jerusalem in front of me, and I began describing it to them while I was looking at it." Sahih Bukhari: Volume 5, Book 58, Number 226.

Jerusalem in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


btw. How many times do words like 'Turkey', 'Iraq' or 'Saudi Arabia' appear in the bible?


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## Maryland (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > The British invented the name "palestine" after collapse of the Ottoman Empire in World War I.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Palestine is an English name invented by the British after WW I, which they Anglicized from the Latin "palaestina" which the Romans invented to briefly call Israel in retribution for the Bar Kokhba Revolt, in an attempt to erase 1000 years of Jewish nationhood.

"Palaestina" is derived from the Hebrew name "Peleshet" that appears in the Hebrew Bible, referring to the Land of the Philistines near Gaza, who were of Indo-European origins.  Pelesh means invaders in Hebrew.

So, today's fakestinians identify by a Hebrew-based name referring to invaders to Israel, which they are


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## Maryland (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland said:
> 
> 
> > Number of times Jerusalem appears in the Koran: Zero, not even once.
> ...



No Jerusalem in the Koran.  Sorry!


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## Saigon (Mar 2, 2013)

> Palestine is an English name invented by the British after WW I,



Is it really too much to ask that you try and establish a few basic facts BEFORE posting?

The programmes of four Palestinian nationalist societies jamyyat al-Ikha&#8217; wal-&#8216;Afaf (Brotherhood and Purity), al-jam&#8217;iyya al-Khayriyya al-Islamiyya, Shirkat al-Iqtissad alFalastini al-Arabi and Shirkat al-Tijara al-Wataniyya al-Iqtisadiyya were reported in the newspaper Falastin in June 1914 by letter from R. Abu al-Sal&#8217;ud. The four societies has similarities in function and ideals; the promotion of patriotism, educational aspirations and support for national industries

Palestinian nationalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Maryland (Mar 2, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland said:
> 
> 
> > Number of times Jerusalem appears in the Koran: Zero, not even once.
> ...



"Only" little problem: The al aqsa mosque didn't exist during muhammad's alleged life.  He croaked in the year 632 CE but the al aqsa mosque wasn't constructed until 715 CE.

Islam is filled with more shit than a Christmas goose


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## Saigon (Mar 2, 2013)

Maryland said:


> No Jerusalem in the Koran.  Sorry!



Firstly, so what? 

What on earth could that possibly have to do with anything?

Is Turkey in the bible? Iraq? Saudi Arabia?

Secondly, as we have just seen AL Aqsa mosque IS in the Koran, and that IS in Jerusalem. 

Jesus wept....


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## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Maryland said:
> ...



Dear God - the same myths again and again and again - why not read back through the thread first so you don't embarass yourself?

Put it this way, genius - there were no mosques in Mecca in 632 either.


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## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > Palestine is an English name invented by the British after WW I,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wikipedia? 

During the Ottoman Empire, there was no palestine nor palestinians.  Arabs viewed the land as south Syria, no different to north Syria.  They identified as Arabs or Muslims or Ottoman nationals or Syrians.  

The newspaper serving south Syria at that timeframe was called Suriya al-Janubiyya, south Syria in Arabic.    

Your history lesson.


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## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...



Jerusalem does not appear in the Koran.  Muhammad never set foot in Jerusalem, if he even existed.  Suck it up


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## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland said:
> 
> 
> > No Jerusalem in the Koran.  Sorry!
> ...



You're allowed to be dumb.  Jerusalem appears 800 times in the Hebrew Bible and reflects its sanctity in Judaism.

Jerusalem appears zero times in the Koran because it has no sanctity in Islam.

Your religion lesson


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## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland - 



> Muhammad never set foot in Jerusalem,



So what? 

Maybe he did, maybe he didn't...why would anyone care?

Do you honestly believe the Via Dolorosa really does mark the path Jesus took?

Most of the holy books are allegory anyway.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland -
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You have evidence that muhammad even existed?  No, I didn't think so.  

Be happy with your shitty mecca and medina.  Jerusalem belongs to the Jews.


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## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

> Jerusalem appears zero times in the Koran because it has no sanctity in Islam.



Ha!! Now that is funny....!!

Actually, genius, the al Aqsa mosque is the third holiest shrine in Islam - and IT IS mentioned in the Koran.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> You have evidence that muhammad even existed?  No, I didn't think so.
> 
> .



No, none at all. Nor that Jesus ever existed, or Buddha. Maybe none of them ever lived, who knows?


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## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland -
> 
> 
> 
> ...





So what?   The entire claim to Jerusalem made by muslims is muhammad's imaginary trip to Jerusalem on a flying donkey  Even his own people in mecca laughed at his fairy tale


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## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland said:
> 
> 
> > You have evidence that muhammad even existed?  No, I didn't think so.
> ...



The Roman historians Tacitus and Suetonius and the Jewish historian Josephus reference Jesus.  Not one word about muhammad.


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## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> The Roman historians Tacitus and Suetonius and the Jewish historian Josephus reference Jesus.  Not one word about muhammad.



So what? 

You don't think there are a dozen history books that mentioned Mohammed that don't mention Jesus?

What on earth are you talking about? At least try and come up with a point, maybe?


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## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland said:
> 
> 
> > The Roman historians Tacitus and Suetonius and the Jewish historian Josephus reference Jesus.  Not one word about muhammad.
> ...



You claimed there is no evidence for Jesus's existence.  I proved you wrong.  

Give me the names of reliable historians contemporaneous with Muhammad's alleged life that mention him?


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland - 

Please try and post with at least a minimum of intellectual merit. 

There are dozens of commentaries that refer to both Jesus and Mohammed during their actual lives. In both cases, there is little evidence of miracles, and few reliable witnesses. Both men likely existed, though whether either was really more than a hustler and self-appointed prophet, we'll never know. 

Did Jesus REALLY turn water into wine? 

Probably not, realistically. 

btw. It's also good form to acknowledge points as they are proven. It might be worth acknolwedging the two points about Palestinian history that you had gotten wrong earlier.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > Jerusalem appears zero times in the Koran because it has no sanctity in Islam.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The al aqsa mosque is referenced in the Koran as the "furthest" mosque but not in Jerusalem.   al aqsa is furthest or remote in arabic.  It likely existed in northern Arabia.  The al aqsa mosque was constructed several decades after muhammad allegedly died.  Islam's "sacred" connection with Jerusalem is bogus.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland - 

Why is it up to you to decide what is 'bogus'?

btw. As posted earlier - and ignored by you - the Hadith's confirm that the al Aqsa is in Jerusalem, and it has been understood to be so by Muslim's for more than a thousand years. 

If you do not accept this - would you mind explaining on what basis you accept the Via Dolorosa to be legitimate for Christians?


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland -
> 
> Please try and post with at least a minimum of intellectual merit.
> 
> ...



I named three eminent Roman and Jewish historians who reference Jesus in their historical accounts of first century Israel.

Name three reputable historians who reference muhammad in their historical accounts of 7th century Near East.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland -
> 
> Why is it up to you to decide what is 'bogus'?
> 
> ...



The meccans called muhammad's trip to Jerusalem on the flying donkey bogus.  Take it up with them


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> I named three eminent Roman and Jewish historians who reference Jesus in their historical accounts of first century Israel.
> 
> Name three reputable historians who reference muhammad in their historical accounts of 7th century Near East.



Um...perhaps start by presenting evidence of these historical texts. 

Given you have been wrong about everything you have posted thus far, your word isn't worth a lot!


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland -
> 
> Why is it up to you to decide what is 'bogus'?
> 
> ...



Jerusalem does not appear even once in the Koran.  Such a sacred city!


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland said:
> 
> 
> > I named three eminent Roman and Jewish historians who reference Jesus in their historical accounts of first century Israel.
> ...



Read Tacitus, Suetonius and Josephus and you won't be so uneducated.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

There is a reference recording the Arab conquest of Syria, that mentions Muhammed. This much faded note is preserved on folio 1 of BL Add. 14,461, a codex containing the Gospel accord to Matthew and the Gospel according to Mark. This note appears to have been penned soon after the battle of Gabitha (636 CE) at which the Arabs inflicted crushing defeat of the Byzantines. Wright was first to draw the attention to the fragment and suggested that "it seems to be a nearly contemporary notice",[34] a view which was also endorsed by Nöldeke.[35] The purpose of jotting this note in the book of Gospels appears to be commemorative as the author appears to have realized how momentous the events of his time were. The words "we saw" are positive evidence that the author was a contemporary. The author also talks about olive oil, cattle, ruined villages, suggesting that he belonged to peasant stock, i.e., parish priest or a monk who could read and write. It is worthwhile cautioning that the condition of the text is fragmentary and many of the readings unclear or disputable. The lacunae are supplied in square brackets:

    ... and in January, they took the word for their lives (did) [the sons of] Emesa [i.e., &#803;Hi&#7747;s)], and many villages were ruined with killing by [the Arabs of] M&#7909;hammad and a great number of people were killed and captives [were taken] from Galilee as far as B&#275;th [...] and those Arabs pitched camp beside [Damascus?] [...] and we saw everywhe[re...] and o[l]ive oil which they brought and them. And on the t[wenty six]th of May went S[ac[ella]rius]... cattle [...] [...] from the vicinity of Emesa and the Romans chased them [...] and on the tenth [of August] the Romans fled from the vicinity of Damascus [...] many [people] some 10,000. And at the turn [of the ye]ar the Romans came; and on the twentieth of August in the year n[ine hundred and forty-]seven there gathered in Gabitha [...] the Romans and great many people were ki[lled of] [the R]omans, ome fifty thousand [...][36]

Historicity of Muhammad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> Read Tacitus, Suetonius and Josephus and you won't be so uneducated.



OK, so you have no evidence. Noted.

btw. Anytime you wish to compare education and CV's I'd be delighted to do so.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> There is a reference recording the Arab conquest of Syria, that mentions Muhammed. This much faded note is preserved on folio 1 of BL Add. 14,461, a codex containing the Gospel accord to Matthew and the Gospel according to Mark. This note appears to have been penned soon after the battle of Gabitha (636 CE) at which the Arabs inflicted crushing defeat of the Byzantines. Wright was first to draw the attention to the fragment and suggested that "it seems to be a nearly contemporary notice",[34] a view which was also endorsed by Nöldeke.[35] The purpose of jotting this note in the book of Gospels appears to be commemorative as the author appears to have realized how momentous the events of his time were. The words "we saw" are positive evidence that the author was a contemporary. The author also talks about olive oil, cattle, ruined villages, suggesting that he belonged to peasant stock, i.e., parish priest or a monk who could read and write. It is worthwhile cautioning that the condition of the text is fragmentary and many of the readings unclear or disputable. The lacunae are supplied in square brackets:
> 
> ... and in January, they took the word for their lives (did) [the sons of] Emesa [i.e., &#803;Hi&#7747;s)], and many villages were ruined with killing by [the Arabs of] M&#7909;hammad and a great number of people were killed and captives [were taken] from Galilee as far as B&#275;th [...] and those Arabs pitched camp beside [Damascus?] [...] and we saw everywhe[re...] and o[l]ive oil which they brought and them. And on the t[wenty six]th of May went S[ac[ella]rius]... cattle [...] [...] from the vicinity of Emesa and the Romans chased them [...] and on the tenth [of August] the Romans fled from the vicinity of Damascus [...] many [people] some 10,000. And at the turn [of the ye]ar the Romans came; and on the twentieth of August in the year n[ine hundred and forty-]seven there gathered in Gabitha [...] the Romans and great many people were ki[lled of] [the R]omans, ome fifty thousand [...][36]
> 
> Historicity of Muhammad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Wikipedia?


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland said:
> 
> 
> > Read Tacitus, Suetonius and Josephus and you won't be so uneducated.
> ...



Do your own homework, stupid boy.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Another account of the early seventh century comes from Sebeos who was a bishop of the House of Bagratunis. From this chronicle, there are indications that he lived through many of the events he relates. He maintains that the account of Arab conquests derives from the fugitives who had been eyewitnesses thereof. He concludes with Mu&#8216;awiya's ascendancy in the Arab civil war (656-61 CE), which suggests that he was writing soon after this date. Sebeos is the first non-Muslim author to present us with a theory for the rise of Ismaelites that pays attention to what the Ismaelites themselves thought they were doing.[42] As for Muhammad, he has the following to say:

    At that time a certain man from along those same sons of Ismael, whose name was Mahmet [i.e., M&#7909;hammad], a merchant, as if by God's command appeared to them as a preacher [and] the path of truth. He taught them to recognize the God of Abraham, especially because he was learnt and informed in the history of Moses. Now because the command was from on high, at a single order they all came together in unity of religion. Abandoning their vain cults, they turned to the living God who had appeared to their father Abraham. So, Mahmet legislated for them: not to eat carrion, not to drink wine, not to speak falsely, and not to engage in fornication. He said: 'With an oath God promised this land to Abraham and his seed after him for ever. And he brought about as he promised during that time while he loved Ismael. But now you are the sons of Abraham and God is accomplishing his promise to Abraham and his seed for you. Love sincerely only the God of Abraham, and go and seize the land which God gave to your father Abraham. No one will be able to resist you in battle, because God is with you.

Historicity of Muhammad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Another account of the early seventh century comes from Sebeos who was a bishop of the House of Bagratunis. From this chronicle, there are indications that he lived through many of the events he relates. He maintains that the account of Arab conquests derives from the fugitives who had been eyewitnesses thereof. He concludes with Muawiya's ascendancy in the Arab civil war (656-61 CE), which suggests that he was writing soon after this date. Sebeos is the first non-Muslim author to present us with a theory for the rise of Ismaelites that pays attention to what the Ismaelites themselves thought they were doing.[42] As for Muhammad, he has the following to say:
> 
> At that time a certain man from along those same sons of Ismael, whose name was Mahmet [i.e., M&#7909;hammad], a merchant, as if by God's command appeared to them as a preacher [and] the path of truth. He taught them to recognize the God of Abraham, especially because he was learnt and informed in the history of Moses. Now because the command was from on high, at a single order they all came together in unity of religion. Abandoning their vain cults, they turned to the living God who had appeared to their father Abraham. So, Mahmet legislated for them: not to eat carrion, not to drink wine, not to speak falsely, and not to engage in fornication. He said: 'With an oath God promised this land to Abraham and his seed after him for ever. And he brought about as he promised during that time while he loved Ismael. But now you are the sons of Abraham and God is accomplishing his promise to Abraham and his seed for you. Love sincerely only the God of Abraham, and go and seize the land which God gave to your father Abraham. No one will be able to resist you in battle, because God is with you.
> 
> Historicity of Muhammad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Another Wiki link?  You read any books, stupid boy?


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Ok, time for a quick review - 

We have seen that the word 'Palestine' date back to the 5th century BC. 

We have seen that the modern usage of the term 'Palestinian' dates back to WWI, if not actually 1834. 

We have seen that Hadith's confirm that Al Aqsa mosque is in Jerusalem.

We have seen that some non-Muslim historians do confirm Mohammed's existance.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Ok, time for a quick review -
> 
> We have seen that the word 'Palestine' date back to the 5th century BC.
> 
> ...



Palestine is an English word invented by the British after World War I.  Not very ancient  

The al aqsa mosque never existed in muhammad's alleged lifetime.  He never visited Jerusalem on his flying donkey


----------



## Roudy (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Exactly.  He does the same thing with Phiistine history. He attributes Philistine history to Arab Palestinian history, in an effort to legitimize their cause.
> ...


NO, what you did was you claimed that today's Arab Palestinians can trace their ancestry all the way back to the stone ages, and even up to 3000 years ago in towns such as ashkelon and Ashdod.  Which can only be attributed to Philistine history. 

Now, you either lied intentionally, or you simply just didn't know. 

I think it's a little bit of both.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Roudy - 

OK, let's try SEVEN times. I have now bookmarked this, so I can just post it again and again and again everytime you deny it exists - which we both know you will do. 

Most ancient recorded inhabitants of Palestine are named
Canaanites (3rd millennium BC or more ancient). They
became urbanized and lived in city-states, one of which
was Jericho. Palestine&#8217;s location at the center of routes
linking three continents made it the meeting place for
religious and cultural influences from Egypt, Syria,
Mesopotamia, and Anatolia. During the second
millennium BC, Egyptian hegemony and Canaanite
autonomy were constantly challenged by such ethnically
diverse invaders as the Amorites, Hittites, and Hurrians
from Anatolia and the East. 

http://www.stml.net/text/Populations.pdf


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> OK, let's try SEVEN times. I have now bookmarked this, so I can just post it again and again and again everytime you deny it exists - which we both know you will do.
> 
> ...



There was no ancient palestine.  The British invented the name palestine after World War I.  There was an ancient Canaan followed by ancient Israel.

*Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel* The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum 



> In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
> 
> Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.


----------



## Roudy (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Ok, time for a quick review -
> 
> We have seen that the word 'Palestine' date back to the 5th century BC.
> 
> ...


The word Palestine?  Of course the word Palestine (land of the *Phiistines*) existed back then. How else would the Romans have RENAMED it Palestine, after their invasion of Israel?  Nobody is debating the obvious.  

Now, show us how today's ARAB PALESTINIANS can trace their ancestry back to Ashdod and ashkelon over 3000 years ago, and as far as the Stone Age.  Which is what you claimed or should I say LIED.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, time for a quick review -
> ...



The Romans, pagan occupiers from Italy, invented the name palaestina to impose on Israel.  They also renamed Jerusalem Aelia Capitolina, but today the city is known by its correct historical name Jerusalem.

The correct historical name of the land is Israel, named by the indigenous Jewish population.


----------



## Roudy (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> OK, let's try SEVEN times. I have now bookmarked this, so I can just post it again and again and again everytime you deny it exists - which we both know you will do.
> 
> ...


Ok is the reason you don't post *the rest of that paragraph because it exposes you as a liar?*

 These invaders, however, were defeated by the Egyptians and absorbed by the Canaanites, who at that time may have numbered about 200,000. Egyptian power began to weaken, and new invaders or autochthonous people appeared or made themselves noticeable [4]. The Israelites, a confederation of Hebrew tribes, finally defeated most of the Canaanites 1125 BC) but found the struggle with the Philistines (Palestinians) more difficult. *Philistines* had established an independent state on the southern coast of Palestine and also controlled the Canaanite town of Jerusalem.
The &#8220;sea people&#8221; contributed to the fall of the Anatolian Hittites and other Middle East people by 1200 BC and apparently seriously threatened Egypt [5]. The *Philistines* have been included among the &#8220;sea people&#8221; invaders. However, it is doubtful that big amounts of people entered nowadays Anatolia and Palestine; a new iron technology probably was taken de novo by some autochthonous Canaanite tribes that acquired superiority.

 Otherwise, the ancient Palestinians might have come from Crete or its empire [7]. Israelites could also stem from autochthonous Canaanite tribes that were agglutinated by a group of people led by Moses to fight against other Canaanites, including Philistines and finally set up ancient Israel [6- 8]. By 1000 BC, and after warring with *Philistines* and other Canaanites, an Israelite state was founded by king Saul [6].
Palestinians held five important city-states when the fighting with Israel began (after 1200 BC): Gaza, *Ash-kelon, Ashod*, Ekron and Gath (Figure 1).

So again, these Palestinian Arabs that lived in "ancient Palestine", are actually Philistines, living in the land of the Philistines aka Palestine, who have nothing to do with today's Arab Palestians. 

You have nothing. Just admit you lied and lets move on.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Mayland - 

You claimed earlier that the British "invented" the name Palestine. 

Do I need to repost your comment, or do you admit now that this is nonsense?


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Roudy said:


> These invaders, however, were defeated by the Egyptians and absorbed by the Canaanites, who at that time may have numbered about 200,000. Egyptian power began to weaken, and new invaders or autochthonous people appeared or made themselves noticeable [4]. The Israelites, a confederation of Hebrew tribes, finally defeated most of the Canaanites



Absolutely. This has all been posted before - great you finaly got around to reading it!


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Mayland -
> 
> You claimed earlier that the British "invented" the name Palestine.
> 
> Do I need to repost your comment, or do you admit now that this is nonsense?



You're allowed to be uneducated.  Palestine is an English word invented by the British to denote Israel under the British Mandate, 1918--1948.

The Romans, pagan occupiers from Europe, called Israel by the Latin "palaestina"  

There has never been a land called palestine by its indigenous population.  The correct name of the land is Israel.

John 12:13 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting,  &#8220;Hosanna! &#8220;Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! &#8220;Blessed is the king of Israel!&#8221;

*Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel* http://isites.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k66717&tabgroupid=icb.tabgroup103110 



> In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
> 
> Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

> There has never been a land called palestine by its indigenous population.



Really? 

So what did the inhabitants of Jericho and neighbouring towns call the area they lived in before and during the Roman era?


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > There has never been a land called palestine by its indigenous population.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Jews who established their country of Israel 3000 years ago have called it Eretz Yisrael [land of Israel] for 3 millenia to today.

John 12:13 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting,  Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Blessed is the king of Israel!


----------



## Roudy (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy -
> ...


Holy Shiite Batman, I think Saigooon is going to have a heart attack. I think this is when he starts asking you if you've traveled a lot. Ha ha ha!


----------



## Roudy (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > These invaders, however, were defeated by the Egyptians and absorbed by the Canaanites, who at that time may have numbered about 200,000. Egyptian power began to weaken, and new invaders or autochthonous people appeared or made themselves noticeable [4]. The Israelites, a confederation of Hebrew tribes, finally defeated most of the Canaanites
> ...


Quote of the week: "Arab Palestininans go back to the Stone age."
By Saigon.

Ha ha ha!


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > These invaders, however, were defeated by the Egyptians and absorbed by the Canaanites, who at that time may have numbered about 200,000. Egyptian power began to weaken, and new invaders or autochthonous people appeared or made themselves noticeable [4]. The Israelites, a confederation of Hebrew tribes, finally defeated most of the Canaanites
> ...



Israel is the correct historical name of the land.  

PBS: Civilization and the Jews


> The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to its own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in its own right; it asserted its claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel and struggled to a precarious independence there for a thousand years until forced to yield to the greater power of Greece and Rome.
> PBS - Heritage


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

> Israel is the correct historical name of the land.



And who said otherwise?

Israel is Israel - I don't see anyone saying it should be re-named or shouldn't exist.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > Israel is the correct historical name of the land.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Israel is Israel and "palestine" was a European name for Israel.


----------



## Roudy (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > There is a reference recording the Arab conquest of Syria, that mentions Muhammed. This much faded note is preserved on folio 1 of BL Add. 14,461, a codex containing the Gospel accord to Matthew and the Gospel according to Mark. This note appears to have been penned soon after the battle of Gabitha (636 CE) at which the Arabs inflicted crushing defeat of the Byzantines. Wright was first to draw the attention to the fragment and suggested that "it seems to be a nearly contemporary notice",[34] a view which was also endorsed by Nöldeke.[35] The purpose of jotting this note in the book of Gospels appears to be commemorative as the author appears to have realized how momentous the events of his time were. The words "we saw" are positive evidence that the author was a contemporary. The author also talks about olive oil, cattle, ruined villages, suggesting that he belonged to peasant stock, i.e., parish priest or a monk who could read and write. It is worthwhile cautioning that the condition of the text is fragmentary and many of the readings unclear or disputable. The lacunae are supplied in square brackets:
> ...



He's also very good at interviewing cab drivers in Muslim countries, which is where he gets most of his info from....does that count?


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> Israel is Israel and "palestine" was a European name for Israel.



Was it really? 

So other people called the area Israel, did they? When? 

You have to laugh, don't you?


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland said:
> 
> 
> > Israel is Israel and "palestine" was a European name for Israel.
> ...



PBS: Civilization and the Jews


> The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to its own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in its own right; it asserted its claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel and struggled to a precarious independence there for a thousand years until forced to yield to the greater power of Greece and Rome.
> PBS - Heritage



John 12:13 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting,  Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Blessed is the king of Israel!


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland - 

No one disputes the age of the word 'Israel' or its importance to the Jewish people, I'm sure. 

But what Zionist posters need to keep in mind is that, prior to the formation of Israel in 1948, the word 'Israel' had rarely appeared on maps under that name. For centuries western maps called the area 'Palestine''. 

It amazes me how often here we see very poorly informed posters whining about how Palestine "was never a country" without  remembering that by those standards Israel was never a country either. 

It's this kind of laughable double standard and cherry-picking of arguments that has cast Zionism in such a negative light.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

> John 12:13 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting, &#8220;Hosanna! &#8220;Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! &#8220;Blessed is the king of Israel!&#8221;



Yes, and the bible also refers to a dozen other people, such as the Scythians or Cimmerians - few of whom ever got their own country. Your point? 

The bible is not the starting point of modern geography.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > John 12:13 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting, Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Blessed is the king of Israel!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Bible doesn't refer to palestine nor palestinians.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

> Maps are made on computers.



Well, that has cleared that debate up. 

I didn't even know there were computers when the bible was written.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> The Bible doesn't refer to palestine nor palestinians.



So what? 

Again - is Turkey in the bible? Iraq? Saudi Arabia? Kuwait?

Should we re-name the land Phoenicia, Canaan or Philistinia and hand that over to the non-Jewish inhabitants of the area?


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland said:
> 
> 
> > The Bible doesn't refer to palestine nor palestinians.
> ...



They didn't exist until the 20th century, dummy.  Palestine didn't exist until the 20th century.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

> They didn't exist until the 20th century, dummy. Palestine didn't exist until the 20th century.



Nonsense. It existed for entire swathes of history. It simply was not a nation state. 

You have already told us that the Romans used the term 'Palestine'. So did the British, you have insisted. We know Herodotus used the term as well. Most maps of the area drawn prior to the Ottoman area use the term 'Palestine' So clearly it DID exist. 

Of course you can muddy the waters by saying that many of the people in the area were Philistines or Phoenicians or Egyptians or Syrians and all of those things hold some truth, but the fact remains that the name Palestine, referring to the land and the people born within it, dates back to antiquity.


----------



## Unkotare (Mar 3, 2013)

"Muddy the waters" = prove some pretentious asshole wrong.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > They didn't exist until the 20th century, dummy. Palestine didn't exist until the 20th century.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're allowed to be dumb.  The Romans used the name "palaestina" briefly.  The British Anglicized it into palestine in the 20th century.

Both were Europeans.  The correct historical name of the land created by the indigenous Jewish People is Israel.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

> The Romans used the name "palaestina" briefly



Really? So it is not true that the name Syria Palaestina was used for almost 300 years?

Or that Paleastine Prima was used for another 250 years after that?

Because by my maths that would be a period of time close to ten times as long as the state of Israel has existed for, wouldn't it?


I have to say (again) that I am constantly stunned by the lack of general knowledge on this board.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Middle East Scholar And Historian Dr. Bernard Lewis, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University, Author, "The Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2000 Years," "The Future of the Middle East," "The Shaping of the Modern Middle East," "The End of Modern History in the Middle East," Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East", "The Arabs In History"


> The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new.  This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilizations and of deep-rooted and often complex identities.  But Palestine was not one of them.  People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or sometimes locality.  But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or the like, or Syrians, identifying with the larger province of Syria.
> 
> The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian and the reconstitution of Jerusalem is the capital were, it seems to me, very important, and as it turns out, lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1918-1948]
> Political Words & Ideas in Islam: Bernard Lewis : 9781558764736: Amazon.com: Books



American Library Association


> "For more than four decades, Bernard Lewis has been one of the most respected scholars and prolific writers on the history and politics of the Middle East. In this compilation of more than 50 journal articles and essays, he displays the full range of his eloquence, knowledge, and insight regarding this pivotal and volatile region."
> Oxford University Press: Search Results


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland - 

Bernard Lewis is right that the concept of Palestinian identity - as opposed to loyalty to a city, local leader or clan - is relatively recent. I don't hear anyone here suggesting otherwise. 

Prior to the 1st Aliyah there was no apparent need for a national identity. Palestinian nationalism formed as a reference to Jewish immigration, but that still sees it acting and functioning as an identity by 1915. 

As I have reminded posters on this board many times - neither Italy nor Germany existed as concepts prior to about 1850. 

It isn't an age contest.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Palestine is as real as Never Neverland.  Israel is the correct historical name of the land.

Bernard Lewis...


> The countries forming the western arm of the Fertile Crescent were called by the names of the various kingdoms and peoples that ruled and inhabited them. Of these, the most familiar, or at least the best documented, are the southern lands, known in the earlier books of the Hebrew Bible and some other ancient writings as Canaan. After the Israelite conquest and settlement, the area inhabited by them came to be described as "land of the children of Israel" or simply "land of Israel" After the breakup of the kingdom of David and Solomon in the tenth century BCE, the southern part, with Jerusalem as its capital, was called Judah, while the north was called Israel





> It is by now commonplace that the civilizations of the Middle East are oldest known to human history.  They go back thousands of years, much older than the civilizations of India and China, not to speak of other upstart places.  It is also interesting, though now often forgotten, that the ancient civilizations of the Middle East were almost totally obliterated and forgotten by their own people as well as by others.  Their monuments were defaced or destroyed, their languages forgotten, their scripts forgotten, their history forgotten and even their identities forgotten.
> 
> All that was known about them came from one single source, and that is Israel, the only component of the ancient Middle East to have retained their identity, their memory, their language and their books.  For a very long time, up to comparatively modern times, with rare exceptions all that was known about the ancient Middle East--the Babylonians, the Egyptians and the rest--was what the Jewish tradiiton has preserved.
> Political Words & Ideas in Islam: Bernard Lewis : 9781558764736: Amazon.com: Books


----------



## ima (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> Middle East Scholar And Historian Dr. Bernard Lewis, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University, Author, "The Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2000 Years," "The Future of the Middle East," "The Shaping of the Modern Middle East," "The End of Modern History in the Middle East," Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East", "The Arabs In History"
> 
> 
> > The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new.  This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilizations and of deep-rooted and often complex identities.  But Palestine was not one of them.  People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or sometimes locality.  But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or the like, or Syrians, identifying with the larger province of Syria.
> ...


What do you expect a Jew to say?


----------



## ima (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Maryland said:
> ...



The bible is a load of made up crap. Or can you prove that the world was made in 6 days? You can't? Awwwww, too bad, you lose.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

ima said:


> Maryland said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...



The Bible "made up" the Ten Commandments that are the pillar of the civilized world.

No wonder you have no reputational points.


----------



## ima (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Maryland said:
> ...



Is that why there are so many people at war, being cheated on, getting screwed by Madoffs, starving... ? Maybe we should toss out those 10 and start over. 

No wonder you live in a dream world.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

ima said:


> Maryland said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



The 10 Commandments are why most of the civilized world is civilized.  You're not civilized but you're in the minority

No rep points for you, dummy


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Prior to the 1st Aliyah there was no apparent need for a national identity. Palestinian nationalism formed as a reference to Jewish immigration, but that still sees it acting and functioning as an identity by 1915.
> 
> 
> you should quit before you choke yourself ,,  Saigon-----but you have
> ...


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

> The 10 Commandments are why most of the civilized world is civilized



Defnitely - you've only got to look at strongly Christian countries like South Sudan, Togo, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Panama, Colombia, Lesotho and Zimbabwe to see that. 

There is no terrorism in Christian countries - except for Sudan. Veneuela...Colombia, Peru, Uganda, of course. Rwanda, Burundi, Kenya, Brazil and Serbia. Oh, and the Ukraine, Moldova and Armenia.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Bible: Love thy neighbor as thyself. 

Koran: We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"


----------



## ima (Mar 3, 2013)

Bible: an eye for an eye.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

ima said:


> Bible: an eye for an eye.



Bible: Love the stranger. 

Koran: Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad] from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.


----------



## ima (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Bible: an eye for an eye.
> ...



Bible: Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Founding Father of the United States of America John Adams 


> I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed in blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations. If I were an atheist of the other sect, who believe or pretend to believe that all is ordered by chance, I should believe that chance had ordered the Jews to preserve and propagate to all mankind the doctrine of a supreme, intelligent, wise, almighty sovereign of the universe, which I believe to be the great essential principle of all morality, and consequently of all civilization
> Roots Of American Order: Russell Kirk, Forrest McDonald: 9781882926992: Amazon.com: Books


 
United States President John Quincy Adams


> The precept of the koran is perpetual war against all who deny that Mahomet is the prophet of God. The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute; the victorious may be appeased by a false and delusive promise of peace; and the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force
> Memoir of the life of John Quincy Adams.: Josiah Quincy: 9781240038398: Amazon.com: Books


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland -
> 
> No one disputes the age of the word 'Israel' or its importance to the Jewish people, I'm sure.
> 
> ...


****************************

   whoever it is who wrote the above nonsense---I am not surprised 
   that idiot sherri ENDORSED IT 

   The islamo nazi scum have devised a new libel-----They are 
   claiming that     THE JOOOOOOS   claim that  "palestine"  
   never existed on maps 

   wrong again nazi dogs------PALESTINE is a word well known 
   to jews----and HAS BEEN IN USE FOR almost 2000 years  by 
   jews-----it is the name ROMANS conferred on    "ISRAEL/JUDEA 
   when they did the nazi thing there      In fact they renamed 
   lots of places----jews used  some of the new names but not 
   others      They renamed   Jerusalem   AELIA CAPITOLINA
   ----a name jews did not use.     the city of shechem became 
  NEOPOLIS-----since arabs cannot pronounce  the "P"  
  THEY changed that one to NABLUS when they got there----

  Since I did read the  nazi propaganda as a child----nothing 
  that nazis claim actually surprises me  ----even the silly word 
  games----

  For the record ----HISTORICALLY  "ISRAEL"  was a country  
  "palestine"  consists of the lands jews called   Israel and 
  Judea in ancient times ---the lands were united eventually
  Muslims did not consider 
  'palestine'   to be a country-----in fact ONLY jews did 
  just as jerusalem is a city----named jerusalem whether  
  it is called   aelia capitolina -----or whatever. 

  For  the record----Jesus was not born in Israel according to 
  the new testament---he was born in Judea------but his parents 
  were from NAZARETH----which is Israel 

  At the time of the birth of jesus---Israel and Judea 
  were united into one country.    Historically---it seems 
  that the whole thing was named by either title. 
  The romans tended toward JUDEA before they 
  renamed the place   PALESTINA

  For almost 2000 years the only people called 
   "PALESTINIANS"   were jews living in palestine---the word 
   appears in hebrew and yiddish writings  in old old books  --
   a long long word worked out phonetically-----it is not a word 
   of  SEMITIC ORIGIN------it is awkward in both arabic and 
   hebrew---however hebrew and yiddish speakers have no problem 
   pronouncing it ------arabs cannot.   
   why do you nazi scum  INVENT WORD NONSENSE?


----------



## ima (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> Founding Father of the United States of America John Adams
> 
> 
> > I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed in blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations. If I were an atheist of the other sect, who believe or pretend to believe that all is ordered by chance, I should believe that chance had ordered the Jews to preserve and propagate to all mankind the doctrine of a supreme, intelligent, wise, almighty sovereign of the universe, which I believe to be the great essential principle of all morality, and consequently of all civilization
> ...



They're  just repeating the nonsense of the bible.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

> -They are
> claiming that THE JOOOOOOS claim that "palestine"
> never existed on maps



Actually Maryland claimed exactly that at least twice today. 

I suggest the two of you talk.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > -They are
> > claiming that THE JOOOOOOS claim that "palestine"
> > never existed on maps
> 
> ...



You were shredded like a tissue in a meat grinder.  Go lick your wounds.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > > -They are
> ...



Um...what?  What are you talking about? 

I thought you made a bit of a fool of yourself by claiming the name Palestine had only ever been used "briefly", but it's nothing we don't see here everyday.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...



Palestine was the European name for Israel, the correct historical name of the land created by its indigenous Jewish population.


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 3, 2013)

"PALESTINE"   as written----IS a word invented by the 
    english.       It  does not appear the same in Hebrew, 
    yiddish or arabic.     I do not know how  PALESTINA 
    appears in Latin     Technically---maryland is right--
    I believe that the english crusaders used the word   PALESTINE---
    in whatever form of english they used


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> "PALESTINE"   as written----IS a word invented by the
> english.       It  does not appear the same in Hebrew,
> yiddish or arabic.     I do not know how  PALESTINA
> appears in Latin     Technically---maryland is right--
> ...



The funny thing is that since there is no letter p in Arabic, so-called palestinians, who are just Arabs, cannot even write their own fake invented identity in their native Arabic language


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland - 

Repeating the same laughable myth hour after hour whilst ignoring all evidence to the contrary only makes you sound like L Ron Hubbard. 

Try reading what is posted, and you might actually be able to contribute something to the debate. 

Palestine was patently NOT the "European" name for Israel, because Israel appeared on no maps at the time. There was no state of Israel, and no people in the area who called themselves Israelis. Both Herodotus and the Romans refer to the land as Palestine, or a derivation thereof. 

Also, there was no single amorphous "Europe" at the time of the Roman invasion, nor since, as it happens. 

Remember that we confirmed earlier that the word 'Palestine' appeared on maps for some 600 years - a period of time that hardly fits your decription of "brief", I would have thought.

If you actually understood the lack of a clear genetic link between modern Palstinians and ancient Philistines, from which the term Palestine is derived, you wouldn't find the need to go into huper-denial mode.

Lastly, the idea that all of these people - for 600 years - were wrong about the name is as stupid a claim as this board will ever see. Countries change names all the time, century after century. Peoples come and go. That is the nature of history.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> "PALESTINE"   as written----IS a word invented by the
> english.



Did Herodotus write in English? How about the Romans?


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

> who are just Arabs,



What does that mean?

Is there something wrong with being Arabic? Do Arabics have a lesser claim to statehood than others?


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > "PALESTINE"   as written----IS a word invented by the
> ...



Er, Herodotus was from Greece.  The Romans were from Italy.

The Jews established Israel in Israel.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > who are just Arabs,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Arabic is a language.  You're allowed to be dumb.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



Actually the Romans were NOT from Italy - there was no Italy. They were from Rome. 

Eiher way -  neither wrote in English, did they genius?


The funny thing is, I absolutely believe Israel has as much right to exist as any other country - and more than many. 

But the case you guys present is so weak, so based on racial hatred and religious dogma that I wish you'd chosen another country to undermine!


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > > who are just Arabs,
> ...



So what? 

Try and post coherent comments. Try and stay on topic - and forget the off-topic abuse.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...



You called Arabs "Arabics"  You're allowed to be stupid.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland - 

Yes, I made a typo. 

At this point you seem to have conceded the debate and are now limiting yourself to spamming and name-calling - is that correct?

Shall I list comment #'s I am still waiting for an adult response to?

Please respond to points raised in #799, 800, 801 and 804.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland -
> 
> Yes, I made a typo.
> 
> ...



Take the rest of the day to learn the distinction between "Arabs" and their language "Arabic"


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 3, 2013)

Herodotus was a greek---he wrote in greek-----
   WHICH IS GREEK TO ME-----something 
   like  "palestina"----for some not fully defined 
   area over there----related to peoples with 
   whom the greeks mingled---in syria who 
   actually WERE GREEKS  or greek like 
   phonecians------- and 
   in and around  ASHKELON who were 
   aegeans-----generally crete people
       even cretins know that

  Herodotus iived in the general times 
  of the babylonian captivity during  
  which time   Israel/Judea was in dis-
  array since ALL of its leaders and 
  prominent people had been deported 
  FROM HIS VANTAGE POINT---he could 
  have considered   ISRAEL/JUDEA----an 
  extinct culture -----is that not interesting??

  More interesting ---at about the same 
    time----a synagogue was built in TUNISIA 
    which legend has it was built using some 
    of the stuff salvaged from the TEMPLE 
    IN JERUSALEM (ie temple #1)     now just 
    to cheer sherri-----that temple was destroyed 
    by  ISA RESPECTERS-----during the  
      "ISA RESPECTING SPRING"  in  tunisia 
      along with ancient manuscripts.   You isa 
      respecters really ENJOY DESTROYING
                       HISTORY


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Rosie - 

I also assume Herodotus wrote in Greek - and the Romans in Roman Latin - meaning that the word "Palestine" is in no way English. 

My guess is that it is a bastardisation of Philistine and thus not a particularly accurate name for the region as far east as Jericho upon which few Philistines could ever have settled, though perhaps for local political reasons I can also understand they may not have wished to use simply Judea & Samaria. The world may be a different place today had they done so....or perhaps not. 

At some point - inevitably - the stream of Jewish (and Christian) refugees and immigrants into lightly populated land would have aroused local opposition, regardless of the names used to describe them.


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon---'palestine'   is a word that exists in 
the ENGLISH LEXICON---it is derived from 
a greek word-----the english invented the 
english equvalent of a greek word---BETTER?? 
The word  PALESTINA   was added to the latin 
lexicon by the romans----it referred to the lands 
that had been   Israel/Judea and included 
ASHKELON  ----and---some other stuff which 
was taken over by the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE 
and christianized


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 3, 2013)

lets play scrabble


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Saigon---'palestine'   is a word that exists in
> the ENGLISH LEXICON---it is derived from
> a greek word-----the english invented the
> english equvalent of a greek word---BETTER??



Well, yes, and the Finnish word is derived from the English, which is derived from the Ancient Latin, and so forth and so forth. 

Is there a point in there somewhere?



> The British Anglicized the Roman Latin "palaestina" into palestine.



So what?

Do you ever actually try to make a point - or just post gibberish and non sequitors?


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Rosie -
> 
> I also assume Herodotus wrote in Greek - and the Romans in Roman Latin - meaning that the word "Palestine" is in no way English.



Incorrect, again.  

"Palestine" is an English word.  The British Anglicized the Roman Latin "palaestina" into palestine.

Palestine is derived from the Hebrew "Peleshet" appearing in the Hebrew Bible which referred to a small area around Gaza.  English versions of the Bible translate Peleshet as Philistia referring to the Philistines.  

Your history lesson for the day


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> lets play scrabble



It would certainly be a step up from the level of debate here the past couple of weeks! 

I am ever hopeful that at some point we might actually debate topics with a certain level of both relevence and interest, but it's rare 90% of the posting isn't just chest-beating, racism and inexplicable displays of the blatantly obvious.

Maryland - 

Still waiting or you to address points 799, 800, 801 and 804. Stop dodging.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > lets play scrabble
> ...



Coming from you who referred to Arabs as "Arabics"  Go back to sleep.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland - 

If you don't have the balls or knowledge to actually discuss the topic here - perhaps starting posting on a gardening forum?


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland - 

I'll try again. These are the comments you seem to be dodging:

Palestine was patently NOT the "European" name for Israel, because Israel appeared on no maps at the time. There was no state of Israel, and no people in the area who called themselves Israelis. Both Herodotus and the Romans refer to the land as Palestine, or a derivation thereof.

Also, there was no single amorphous "Europe" at the time of the Roman invasion, nor since, as it happens.

Remember that we confirmed earlier that the word 'Palestine' appeared on maps for some 600 years - a period of time that hardly fits your decription of "brief", I would have thought.

If you actually understood the lack of a clear genetic link between modern Palestinians and ancient Philistines, from which the term Palestine is derived, you wouldn't find the need to go into hyper-denial mode.

Lastly, the idea that all of these people - for 600 years - were 'wrong' about the name is as stupid a claim as this board will ever see. Countries change names, century after century. Peoples come and go. That is the nature of history. 

The fact Israel did not exist as a country until 1948 in no way weakens or lessens its claim to statehood today. Israel is a legitimate country - despite you re-writing its history. 

Do you accept that the word 'Palestine' did appear on maps for 600 years?

Plus - 

What does this statement mean?



> who are just Arabs,


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland -
> 
> I'll try again. These are the comments you seem to be dodging:
> 
> Palestine was patently NOT the "European" name for Israel, because Israel appeared on no maps at the time.



Much better than a silly map...

Louve, Paris: The Mesha Stele: Israel [ca. 830 BCE]


> The stele of King Mesha constitutes one of the most important direct accounts of the history of the world that is related in the Bible. The inscription pays tribute to the sovereign, celebrating his great building works and victories over the kingdom of Israel during the reign of Ahab, son of Omri. The mention of "Israel" is its earliest known written occurence.
> The Mesha Stele | Louvre Museum | Paris


 




Mesha Stele Inscription...


> I am Mesha, son of Chemosh, the king of Moab.  My father reigned over Moab for thirty years, and I reigned after my father. And I made this high-place for Chemosh [national god] in Qarcho.because he has delivered me from all kings, and because he has made me triumph over all my adversaries.
> 
> *As for Omri, King of Israel, he humbled Moab for many years, for Chermosh was angry at his land.  In my time he spoke, but I have triumphed over him and over his house, while Israel hath perished for ever!
> *


*

Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Mesha Stele--Israel  



			Mesha ruled Moab, east of the Dead Sea, during the ninth century BCE.  Mesha recounts his principal achievements as king. The most important of these was his recovery from Israel of Moabite lands north of the Arnon River. 

There is also a measure of bombast: Mesha proclaims that "Israel perished utterly forever," which certainly was not the case, though in one town alone he says he slaughtered seven thousand Israelite "men, boys, women, girls and concubines" in devotion to Ashtar-Chemosh.

Omri, king of Israel, who ruled a generation before Mesha, is mentioned several times. The earliest known reference to Yahweh [Hebrew God] in a Semitic inscription is also to be found here. At the extant bottom of the stela, Mesha describes an encounter with the House of David, that is, Judah. Although the passage is badly broken, it is clear that Mesha takes credit for a victory over the House of David in the territory south of the Arnon. The words representing king of Israel, Yahweh and House of [Da]vid are highlighted at the top, middle and bottom of the stela respectively.
Mesha of Moab § Semitic Museum

Click to expand...

*


----------



## Roudy (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Rosie -
> ...


Yup, and that's exactly what I've been saying to this ignorant nincompoop, unfortunately it doesn't go his thick skull. You will learn learn very quickly that Saigooon's ignorance is only surpassed by his arrogance. He keeps embarrassing himself and then comes back only to embarass himself even more.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Roudy - 

If you take a look at my sig line - what you see is Maryland claiming the British INVENTED the word Palestine. 

Can you admit that this claim - in light of the fact the word Palestine appeared on maps for 600 years - is false, or are you going to concede defeat as well? 

Perhaps its time for your daily meltdown and spamathon?


----------



## Roudy (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland -
> 
> Yes, I made a typo.
> 
> ...


Ahem, that didn't look like a typo to me. You repeated twice. 

Three point shot, and one, goes to Maryland.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

And....it's back to name-calling and spamming. 

Excellent work, Roudy - you can always be relied on to ensure no sensible topic is ever discussed here.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> If you take a look at my sig line - what you see is Maryland claiming the British INVENTED the word Palestine.
> 
> ...



Palestine is an English name was invented by the British after World War I.  Now, you know.

The name Israel is 3000 years old

Have you figured out the difference between Arab and Arabic?


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

> Palestine is an English was invented by the British.



Palestine is an English? 

What the hell are you talking about?


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

> who are just Arabs,



This will keep, by the way. 

I will post it day after day until you address it. How long that takes is up to you.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > Palestine is an English was invented by the British.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The name palestine is an English word.  Have you figured out the difference between Arab and Arabic?  
http://www.usmessageboard.com/6898202-post803.html


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland - 

It's completely ok that you made a typo. Everyone does. 

The difference between us is that I can be man enough to admit my own - and let you off yours. 


btw. For the 4th or 5th time  - 'Palestine' is not a British invention, because the word appeared on maps for the best part of 600 years before entering the English language.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland -
> 
> It's completely ok that you made a typo. Everyone does.
> 
> ...



Don't blame your computer for being uneducated.  Now, remember, Arabs are a people and their language is Arabic.  

http://www.usmessageboard.com/6898202-post803.html


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland - 

Maybe it is a good idea if we compare our education and background in the Middle East. It just kind of sets things into a slightly clearer place, doesn't it?

Will you go for, or shall I? 

Also - what does THIS mean?



> who are just Arabs,


----------



## Roudy (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> If you take a look at my sig line - what you see is Maryland claiming the British INVENTED the word Palestine.
> 
> ...


He already explained to you.  You lied and tried to attribute Philistine history as a linkeage to today's Arab Palestinians.  There is none. "Philistine" or Palestine was the name the Greeks gave to the land of Phiistines. Then came the Canaanites and Jews and others and Philistine or Palestine and its people ceased to exist. Thousands of years later, the Romans changed the name of Israel to Palestine, but the land was still know as Israel or Judeah and Samaria. up to the 20th century. 

Maryland is just telling you the same thing I was but in a different way. You refuse to admit that you were caught lying and now you're being your usual arrogant ahole.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Roudy - 

Do you understand and accept that the word 'Palestine' appeared on maps for 600 years?

Do you accept that the original usage of the term by Romans and Herodotus  had nothing whatsoever to do with the British?

PLEASE DO NOT DODGE!


----------



## Roudy (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Maryland -
> ...


Let me congratulate you Maryland. When Saigooon dedicates his sig line to you, that means you kicked his ass so bad, and he's wearing a badge of defeat in your honor. 

I'm a little saddened because you caused him to remove my badge and put up yours. 

Game on, buddy!


----------



## Roudy (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> Do you understand and accept that the word 'Palestine' appeared on maps for 600 years?
> 
> ...


He already told you dipshit, it was a name the European Greeks gave to the land of the philistines over 3500 years ago. Are you fucking THICK or what?

You sound like you have obsessive compulsive disorder. Get yourself checked.


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> Do you understand and accept that the word 'Palestine' appeared on maps for 600 years?
> 
> ...




Saigon---do you realize that the original usage of the 
term   "palestina"   or whatever permutation of the word---
by   HERODOTUS ------had nothing whatever to 
do with  arabs or muslims?      and that the  later usage of 
the term by  ROMANS   had lots to do with jews---but 
nothing whatever to do with arabs or muslims?    
.....and that the very recent usage of the term----has 
been altered to refer to a group of arab muslims as 
a tool in the  ARABIST CAUSE ?


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> Do you understand and accept that the word 'Palestine' appeared on maps for 600 years?
> 
> ...



European map makers, perhaps.  "Palestine" was a European name for Israel.

The correct name of the land, Israel, dates back 3000 years.

Louve, Paris: The Mesha Stele: Israel [ca. 830 BCE]


> The stele of King Mesha constitutes one of the most important direct accounts of the history of the world that is related in the Bible. The inscription pays tribute to the sovereign, celebrating his great building works and victories over the kingdom of Israel during the reign of Ahab, son of Omri. The mention of "Israel" is its earliest known written occurence.
> The Mesha Stele | Louvre Museum | Paris


 




Mesha Stele Inscription...


> I am Mesha, son of Chemosh, the king of Moab.  My father reigned over Moab for thirty years, and I reigned after my father. And I made this high-place for Chemosh [national god] in Qarcho.because he has delivered me from all kings, and because he has made me triumph over all my adversaries.
> 
> *As for Omri, King of Israel, he humbled Moab for many years, for Chermosh was angry at his land.  In my time he spoke, but I have triumphed over him and over his house, while Israel hath perished for ever!
> *


*

Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Mesha Stele--Israel  



			Mesha ruled Moab, east of the Dead Sea, during the ninth century BCE.  Mesha recounts his principal achievements as king. The most important of these was his recovery from Israel of Moabite lands north of the Arnon River. 

There is also a measure of bombast: Mesha proclaims that "Israel perished utterly forever," which certainly was not the case, though in one town alone he says he slaughtered seven thousand Israelite "men, boys, women, girls and concubines" in devotion to Ashtar-Chemosh.

Omri, king of Israel, who ruled a generation before Mesha, is mentioned several times. The earliest known reference to Yahweh [Hebrew God] in a Semitic inscription is also to be found here. At the extant bottom of the stela, Mesha describes an encounter with the House of David, that is, Judah. Although the passage is badly broken, it is clear that Mesha takes credit for a victory over the House of David in the territory south of the Arnon. The words representing king of Israel, Yahweh and House of [Da]vid are highlighted at the top, middle and bottom of the stela respectively.
Mesha of Moab § Semitic Museum

Click to expand...

*


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Ok, so no serious answers so far. 

I am surprised. 

I am always puzzled that anyone thinks they "win" a debate by running away from it.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Saigon---do you realize that the original usage of the
> term   "palestina"   or whatever permutation of the word---
> by   HERODOTUS ------had nothing whatever to
> do with  arabs or muslims?



Oh, yes, definitely. I totally agree. 

I don't think there were terribly many Muslims in the region centure before Mohammed!

It's the usage of the term that Maryland has been denying here - not the people the term might have referred to. Why he's denying that I am not sure.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

> it was a name the European Greeks gave to the land of the philistines over 3500 years ago. Are you fucking THICK or what?



Then why does he say "British"?


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon---do you realize that the original usage of the
> ...



Have you figured out the difference between Arabs and Arabic, uneducated one? 

http://www.usmessageboard.com/6898202-post803.html


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland - 

So when are we posting CVs? 

Do you want to go first? 

You don't have to post your name or anything, but since you are obviously proud of your education, I think it's better to get this all out on in public.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > it was a name the European Greeks gave to the land of the philistines over 3500 years ago. Are you fucking THICK or what?
> 
> 
> 
> Then why does he say "British"?



Herodotus, from Greece. referred to the southwestern coast of Israel by the Greek name "palaistine" referring to the land of the philistines, an Indo-European people.

The correct name of the land known by inhabitants of the Near East was Israel.

Your history lesson.


----------



## Roudy (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Ok, so no serious answers so far.
> 
> I am surprised.
> 
> I am always puzzled that anyone thinks they "win" a debate by running away from it.


Dude, I asked you to prove to me how Arab Palestiians go tback to the land over 3000 years ago and you pasted a partial quote (intentionally) which after i posted its entirety it was referring to THE PHILISTINES. You are dishonest in every way possible.  

Next you changed the subject to "the origins of the name Palestine". 

As I told you before you are your own worst enemy. Your arrogance has blinded you.


----------



## Roudy (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > it was a name the European Greeks gave to the land of the philistines over 3500 years ago. Are you fucking THICK or what?
> 
> 
> 
> Then why does he say "British"?


British changed the name to Palestine Mandate.  Syria was French mandate, and so on. Try to keep up. Honor student, you're not.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, so no serious answers so far.
> ...



Arabs invaded Israel in the year 638 CE, 2000+ years after Jews had been living in Israel.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland - 

As I mentioned earlier, repeating the same myth again and again and again is not buiilding a case - it's merely symptomatic of Ass-burgers Syndrome. 

Herodotus specifically and clearly does NOT refer only to the SW coast of Judea, but to...

The earliest occurrence of this name in a Greek text is in the mid-fifth century b.c., Histories of Herodotus, where it is applied to the area of the Levant between Phoenicia and Egypt."..."The first known occurrence of the Greek word Palaistine is in the Histories of Herodotus, written near the mid-fifth century B.C. Palaistine Syria, or simply Palaistine, is applied to what may be identified as* the southern part of Syria, comprising the region between Phoenicia and Egypt*.

Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*
Please acknowledge that you now understand this. *


----------



## Roudy (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland -
> 
> So when are we posting CVs?
> 
> ...


Here we go, if it's not "travel credentials" it's posting CV's.  Desperation is creeping in. 

Hilarious.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland -
> 
> As I mentioned earlier, repeating the same myth again and again and again is not buiilding a case - it's merely symptomatic of Ass-burgers Syndrome.
> 
> ...



Wikipedia, not exactly a scholarly source 

Eminent Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University, Author, "The Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2000 Years," "The Future of the Middle East," "The Shaping of the Modern Middle East," "The End of Modern History in the Middle East," Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East", "The Arabs In History"


> The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new.  This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilizations and of deep-rooted and often complex identities.  But Palestine was not one of them.  People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or sometimes locality.  But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or the like, or Syrians, identifying with the larger province of Syria.
> 
> The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian and the reconstitution of Jerusalem is the capital were, it seems to me, very important, and as it turns out, lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1918-1948].
> Political Words & Ideas in Islam: Bernard Lewis : 9781558764736: Amazon.com: Books



American Library Association


> "For more than four decades, Bernard Lewis has been one of the most respected scholars and prolific writers on the history and politics of the Middle East. In this compilation of more than 50 journal articles and essays, he displays the full range of his eloquence, knowledge, and insight regarding this pivotal and volatile region."
> http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/gener...usa&viewVeritySearchResults=true&ss=relevancy


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

> it was a name the European Greeks gave to the land of the philistines over 3500 years ago





> British changed the name to Palestine Mandate.



Um...right. 

So then the name Palestine was not used PRIOR to the British changing the name to Palestine.

Except - obviously - the British did not name the mandate, the League of Nations did. 

And secondly, the word 'Palestine' had been used for 600 years by the Romans et al. 

So again - WHY does Maryland claim the British INVENTED the word Palestine?


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

> Here we go, if it's not "travel credentials" it's posting CV's. Desperation is creeping in.



I was surprised Mayland mentioned it - twice - but perhaps you are right....


----------



## Roudy (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland -
> 
> So when are we posting CVs?
> 
> ...


Did you graduate first class honors cum-laude from Nation of Islam University of Stupidity?

No I think that was Sunni.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

> Wikipedia, not exactly a scholarly source



Jesus wept......

*^ Jacobson, David M. (February 1999). Weinstein, James M.. ed. "Palestine and Israel". Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research (The American Schools of Oriental Research) (313): 65&#8211;74. ISSN 0003097X. JSTOR 1357617. ""*The earliest occurrence of this name in a Greek text is in the mid-fifth century b.c., Histories of Herodotus, where it is applied to the area of the Levant between Phoenicia and Egypt."..."The first known occurrence of the Greek word Palaistine is in the Histories of Herodotus, written near the mid-fifth century B.C. Palaistine Syria, or simply Palaistine, is applied to what may be identified as the southern part of Syria, comprising the region between Phoenicia and Egypt. 

Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > it was a name the European Greeks gave to the land of the philistines over 3500 years ago
> 
> 
> 
> ...



During 400 years of the Ottoman Empire, there was no palestine.  The land of Israel was called Eretz Yisrael by Jews [land of Israel] and Suriya al-Janubiyya by Arabs [south Syria]

The British first called south Syria/Israel "Palestine" after collapse of the Ottoman Empire in World War I.

Your history lesson


----------



## Roudy (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > it was a name the European Greeks gave to the land of the philistines over 3500 years ago
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just like the Arabs changed the name of Judeah and Samaria after 3000 years to "West Bank". Is it still Judeah and Samaria or not?


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland - 

Please try and post with a little integrity and self-respect. 

Do you accept that the word 'Palestine' was used by Herodotus and by the Romans et al for around 600 years?


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

> Just like the Arabs changed the name of Judeah and Samaria after 3000 years to "West Bank". Is it still Judeah and Samaria or not?



Yes, of course it is. To Israelis. 

You call my country 'Finland'. I don't call it that.


----------



## Roudy (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > Wikipedia, not exactly a scholarly source
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Which was the name for the land of the Philistines. Then the land and the people ceased to exist. One is gay as in happy the other is gay as in you. Two different associations dipshit!


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

> The British first called south Syria/Israel "Palestine" after collapse of the Ottoman Empire in World War I.



No, genius - they did not. 

The LEAGUE OF NATIONS did. 

You know - any fifteen-year old high school student in this country knows this stuff. Why don't you?


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

> Which was the name for the land of the Philistines.



At the time - very possibly. That actually makes little to no difference at all. 

What matters is that the name remained, albiet somewhat bastardised, and came to include the other peoples who also lived in that land - and who were not Philistines and never had been.


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Eminent Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University, Author, "The Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2000 Years," "The Future of the Middle East," "The Shaping of the Modern Middle East," "The End of Modern History in the Middle East," Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East", "The Arabs In History"


> *For Arabs, the term Palestine was unacceptable...For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant but not abhorrent in the same way as it was to Jews. The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs denied. For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole [Syria]  For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point.*
> 
> The name Palestine had never been used by Jews, for whom the normal name of the country, from the time of the Exodus to the present day, was Eretz Israel.
> 
> ...


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland - 

It's safe to assume everyone on this board is FAR more familiar with the work of everyones favourite Holocaust-denier than you are. 

In fact - I bet you didn't even know he was a Holocaust denier, did you?!

He is actually a very good historian - though somewhat one-eyed. I have read a couple of his books, and enjoyed them, but he is not a one-stop shop. And particularly not for someone such as yourself who comes into this with extremely little knowledge of the area and history.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland - 

I think there now around 10 topics you are dodging, points you are refusing to acknowledge, and questions you are refusing to address. 

I have compiled them all, and will post them for you again tomorrow.


----------



## Roudy (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > Just like the Arabs changed the name of Judeah and Samaria after 3000 years to "West Bank". Is it still Judeah and Samaria or not?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To Israelis?  LOL. For 3000 years it's been called Judeah and then some Arab savages decided to change it to West Bank?  

Just like how you associate the name given to the land of the Phlistines as the same Arab Palestine which is a 20th century invention.  Try to be just a little intellectually honest and not squirm like a worm for once. We are talking about Arab Palestinians, and their ties to the land. Bringing up whether the word Palestine existed in ancient times without showing how it relates to today's Arab Palestinians is useless and deceptive.


----------



## Saigon (Mar 3, 2013)

> To Israelis? LOL. For 3000 years it's been called Judeah and then some Arab savages decided to change it to West Bank?
> 
> Just like how you associate the name given to the land of the Phlistines as the same Arab Palestine which is a 20th century invention. Try to be just a little intellectually honest and not squirm like a worm for once. We are talking about Arab Palestinians, and their ties to the land. Bringing up whether the word Palestine existed in ancient times without showing how it relates to today's Arab Palestinians is useless and deceptive.



Roudy - 

I don't dodge. I am not you. Ask me any question, and I'll answer it. Always. 

Firstly - I am not sure why you find this difficult to understand, but most countries and regions have multiple names in multiple languages. I say 'Suomi', you say 'Finland'. When I lived in Israel I used the terms 'Judea & Samaria'. In the west and in English I use 'West Bank'. In other languages, other terms exist. There is no reason for Israeli's to stop using the term 'Judea' if they wish, nor for Palestinians to use 'West Bank' if they wish. 

As I have explained probably 10 - 20 times now, I don't consider modern Palestinians closely linked to the Philistines, except via the etymology of the name, but not genetically. 

We all know Palestinian links to the land in towns like Jericho dates back 3,000 years and more - to as far back as people lived on that land. It has little to do with the Philistines. 

I have absolutely no idea whatsoever why the two of you twist and turn and dodge and lie to avoid the most basic schoolboy facts of history - like denying that the word 'Palestine' appeared on maps for 600 years, or that the League of Nations named the mandates - not the British. 

The two of you look around ten years old in a bed wetting contest when you do that stuff.


----------



## ima (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Maryland -
> ...


*
And you know this is all fact and not more wishful thinking because...?*


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > To Israelis? LOL. For 3000 years it's been called Judeah and then some Arab savages decided to change it to West Bank?
> >
> > Just like how you associate the name given to the land of the Phlistines as the same Arab Palestine which is a 20th century invention. Try to be just a little intellectually honest and not squirm like a worm for once. We are talking about Arab Palestinians, and their ties to the land. Bringing up whether the word Palestine existed in ancient times without showing how it relates to today's Arab Palestinians is useless and deceptive.
> 
> ...



Eminent Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University, Author, "The Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2000 Years," "The Future of the Middle East," "The Shaping of the Modern Middle East," "The End of Modern History in the Middle East," Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East", "The Arabs In History"


> With the British conquest in 1917-1918 and the subsequent of a mandated territory in the conquered areas, Palestine became the official name of a definite territory...
> Political Words & Ideas in Islam: Bernard Lewis : 9781558764736: Amazon.com: Books[/quote


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 3, 2013)

saigon>>>
We all know Palestinian links to the land in towns like 
Jericho dates back 3,000 years and more - to as far back 
as people lived on that land. It has little to do with the
 Philistines. 


we all know that  the PHILISTINES  were "linked"  more 
closely to towns like Jericho  in the ancient past than
are the "palestinians"  of today. ----most likely. 

   nations and people are not defined by the fact 
   of  members ancestors  having screwed each other 
   four million years ago----give up the stupidity    
   saigon----according to your theories     
   I AM A LENNILENAPE INDIAN
   There were no arab muslims ---in Jericho 
   in ancient times----nor was there an enclave 
   of  ARABIANS      Some historians have determined 
   that  GENGHIS KHAN  raped so widely that he has 
   several million descendants today----fermented mares 
   milk is not a big seller even in my town


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> saigon>>>
> We all know Palestinian links to the land in towns like
> Jericho dates back 3,000 years and more - to as far back
> as people lived on that land. It has little to do with the
> ...



Saigon doesn't even know the difference between Arabs and the Arabic language
http://www.usmessageboard.com/6898202-post803.html


Archaeologist and Historian Dr. Eric Cline, Chairman of the Department of Classical and Near Eastern Languages and Civilizations, George Washington University; Director of the GWU Capitol Archaeological Institute


> The claims that modern Palestinians are descended from the ancient Jebusites are made without any supporting evidence.  Historians and archaeologists have generally concluded that most, if not all, modern Palestinians are probably more closely related to the Arabs of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan and other countries than they are to the ancient Jebusites, Canaanites or Philistines.
> Oxford University Press: The Oxford Handbook of the Bronze Age Aegean: Eric H. Cline


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon also had no concept of population genetics.

  saigon dear----ALL HUMANS ARE GENETICALLY LINKED---
     ALL-----ALL----ALL      so far the only conclusion one 
     can draw regarding the population of arabs and jews 
     in the world is that both have some links to the middle 
     east----which exceed the links that ALL HUMANS  
     have to each other indicating that both have origin 
     in the middle east---------give up your silly theories of 

                 the ancient history of AL FATAH


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Saigon also had no concept of population genetics.
> 
> saigon dear----ALL HUMANS ARE GENETICALLY LINKED---
> ALL-----ALL----ALL      so far the only conclusion one
> ...



Even Arab academics acknowledge that pallies have no ancient history.

Rashid Khalidi, Professor of Modern Arab Studies, Columbia University, Director of Columbia University's Middle East Institute and advisor to various Arab groups...


> There is a relatively recent tradition which argues that Palestinian nationalism has deep historical roots.  As with other national movements, extreme advocates of this view anachronistically read back into the history of Palestine over the past few centuries a nationalist consciousness and identity that are in fact relatively modern.  Among the manifestations of this outlook are a predilection for seeing in peoples such as the Canaanites, Jebusites and Philistines the lineal ancestors of the modern Palestinians.
> Amazon.com: Palestinian Identity (9780231105156): Rashid Khalidi: Books


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 3, 2013)

for maryland---while the moniker---PALESTINE---
was avoided for OFFICIAL PURPOSES  by the 
jews living there----the statement that jews 
avoided it completely is untrue----it shows up 
in old books ---in both hebrew and yiddish---
laboriously spelled out since it is a foreign word 
to both languages ----my take on Yiddish is that 
I sometimes try to work out the words ----
thru my less than complete knowlege of hebrew.

---I found the word  PALESTINIAN on old signs 
---in ruins in New York City from the early  1900s.
ZIONIST SUPPORT ORGANIZATIONS.   I also found 
the word PALESTINIAN in reference to jews living 
over there-----in OLD BOOKS---on the shelves of 
synagogue libraries   (in english)    of course for 
FORMAL USE---the term is  eretz yisrael     
During  mandate days---the official papers 
of jews were stamped  "PALESTINIAN"----
the official papers of non jews WERE NOT---
  Hubby still has his----his country of origin 
    is not noted----just PALESTINIAN---he 
      came an instant  PALESTINIAN at age one
         only because he is a jew

arabs were stamped out either as 'syrian'  or 
I belive--sometimes  "arab"-----never 
"palestinian"   in mandate days


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> for maryland---while the moniker---PALESTINE---
> was avoided for OFFICIAL PURPOSES  by the
> jews living there----the statement that jews
> avoided it completely is untrue----it shows up
> ...



European Jews have used the name palestine.  Generally, the correct name is Israel or Eretz Yisrael [Land of Israel]

Palestine doesn't appear in the Hebrew Bible nor in the New Testament nor in the Quran.  Israel appears 2500 times in all three scriptures.


----------



## Jos (Mar 3, 2013)

Traitors Hung from a lamppost doesn't appear in the Hebrew Bible nor in the New Testament nor in the Quran.
But yet it comes


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > for maryland---while the moniker---PALESTINE---
> ...


----------



## Annika55 (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland -
> 
> It's safe to assume everyone on this board is FAR more familiar with the work of everyones favourite Holocaust-denier than you are.
> 
> ...



FYI
 Lewis did not want the ARMENIAN GENOCIDE to be compared to the Holocaust of the Jews. His commentary on the Armenian genocide was controversial and some may have called him a Holocaust denier, but it was ONLY in reference to the murder of Armenians.


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 3, 2013)

Annika55 said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Maryland -
> ...



I am intrigued----my mom told me about the armenian genocide----before 
she told me about adolf-----I think it was a kind of preparation ---she assumed 
I would not take it personally------but in fact I did.     What CONTROVERSIAL 
thing did bernard lewis say?  

    just an aside----in the course of my own life----I found MOST americans 
    never heard of the armenian genocide  -----

    my understanding of the armenian genocide is----ONE GIANT WELL 
    PLANNED POGROM RAMPAGE     ----that people were galvanized 
    to go at it in so concerted an effort amazes me.     I do not believe 
    that germans or poles would have managed to do to jews what the 
    turks did to the armenians-----lots would have held back.    
    From what I know about ---- it was galavanized by super-human HATRED


----------



## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Annika55 said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Maryland -
> ...



You have no idea WTF you're talking about so I'll instruct you: Dr. Lewis does not deny the deaths of Armenians under Turkish rule.  His view is that the Turks did not intentionally commit genocide.

Now, you know


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> Annika55 said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


----------



## Annika55 (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> Annika55 said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...



Absolutely NOTHING I wrote was incorrect.

Bernard Lewis - Armeniapedia.org
The Le Monde events
In a November 1993 Le Monde interview, Lewis said that the Ottoman Turks killing of up to 1.5 million Armenians in 1915 was not "genocide", and then condemned by French courts for his statement. The following is a summary of these events.
Le Monde Interview
In a November 1993 Le Monde interview, Lewis said that the Ottoman Turks killing of up to 1.5 million Armenians in 1915 was not "genocide", but the "brutal byproduct of war".[1] He further suggested in the interview that "the reality of the Armenian genocide results from nothing more than the imagination of the Armenian people."[2]
Trial in France
A Parisian court interpreted his remarks as a denial of the Armenian Genocide and on June 21, 1995 fined him one franc, and the publication of this verdict at Lewis' cost in Le Monde[2]. The court ruled that while Lewis has the right to his views, they did damage to a third party and that "it is only by hiding elements which go against his thesis that the defendant was able to state that there was no 'serious proof' of the Armenian Genocide."
Verdict
A Parisian court interpreted his remarks as a denial of the Armenian Genocide and on June 21, 1995 fined him one franc, and the publication of this verdict at Lewis' cost in Le Monde[1]. The court ruled that while Lewis has the right to his views, they did damage to a third party and that "it is only by hiding elements which go against his thesis that the defendant was able to state that there was no 'serious proof' of the Armenian Genocide."[3]
Lewis ruling in English (French)
Lewis ruling article from Le Monde in English (French)
Letter to the Princeton Alumni Magazine
Read Lewis letter to the Princeton Alumni Magazine
On June 15, 1996, a letter by Lewis appeared in the Princeton Alumni Magazine, in which he gave his account of the ruling[2]. His account however is not accurate, as the following excerpts show.
Excerpt from Lewis' letter[3]:
	 The court ruled that while it was "in no way established" that I had "pursued a purpose alien" to my "mission as a historian," I was at fault in not having cited, in the course of the interview, "elements contrary to my thesis" and had thus "revived the pain of the Armenian community." For this I was ordered to pay one franc in damages to each of the two plaintiff parties as well as a contribution to their costs.	 
Excerpts from actual ruling[4]:
	 Whereas, even if it is in no way established that he pursued a purpose alien to his mission as a historian, and even if it is not disputable that he may maintain an opinion on this question different from those of the petitioning associations, the fact remains that it was by concealing elements contrary to his thesis that the defendant was able to assert that there was no "serious proof" of the Armenian genocide; consequently, he failed in his duties of objectivity and prudence by expressing himself without qualification on such a sensitive subject; and his remarks, which could unfairly revive the pain of the Armenian community, are tortious and justify compensation under the terms set forth hereafter;	 
	 The historian is bound by his responsibility toward the persons concerned when, by distortion [dénaturation] or falsification, he credits the veracity of manifestly erroneous allegations or, through serious negligence, omits events or opinions subscribed to by persons qualified and enlightened enough so that the concern for accuracy prevents him from keeping silent about them.	 
	 The Court...orders the publication of excerpts of this judgment in the next issue of the newspaper Le Monde to appear after the date on which this judgment shall be made final, the cost of this insertion, to be borne by the defendant, not to exceed twenty thousand (20,000) francs.	 
Bernards statements on the Genocide
Lewis argues that:
	 There is no evidence of a decision to massacre. On the contrary, there is considerable evidence of attempts to prevent it, which were not very successful. Yes there were tremendous massacres, the numbers are very uncertain but a million may well be likely,[4] ...[and] the issue is not whether the massacres happened or not, but rather if these massacres were as a result of a deliberate preconceived decision of the Turkish government... there is no evidence for such a decision.[5]	 
Lewis thus believes that "to make [Armenian Genocide], a parallel with the Holocaust in Germany" is "rather absurd."[4] In an interview with Haaretz he stated:
	 The deniers of Holocaust have a purpose: to prolong Nazism and to return to Nazi legislation. Nobody wants the 'Young Turks' back, and nobody wants to have back the Ottoman Law. What do the Armenians want? The Armenians want to benefit from both worlds. On the one hand, they speak with pride of their struggle against the Ottoman despotism, while on the other hand, they compare their tragedy to the Jewish Holocaust. I do not accept this. I do not say that the Armenians did not suffer terribly. But I find enough cause for me to contain their attempts to use the Armenian massacres to diminish the worth of the Jewish Holocaust and to relate to it instead as an ethnic dispute.[6]	 
Academic responses
Lewis' views on Armenian Genocide were largely criticized by well-known historians and genocide scolars including Alain Finkelkraut, Yves Ternon, Richard G. Hovannisian, Albert Memmi, Pierre Vidal-Haquet[7][8], he was considered as a "notorious genocide-denier".[9][10][11][12][13] According to historian Yair Auron, "Lewis stature provided a lofty cover for the Turkish national agenda of obfuscating academic research on the Armenian Genocide".[14]
National Humanities Medal
When Lewis received the prestigious National Humanities Medal from President Bush in November 2006, the Armenian National Committee of America took strong objection. Executive Director Aram Hamparian released a statement of pointed disapproval:
	 The President's decision to honor the work of a known genocide denier  an academic mercenary whose politically motivated efforts to cover up the truth run counter to the very principles this award was established to honor  represents a true betrayal of the public trust.[15]	 
The ANCA Press Release noticed that early in his career Lewis asserted the holocaust of Armenians in his 1961 book, The Emergence of Modern Turkey (p. 356): "A desperate struggle between [the Turks and Armenians] began, a struggle between two nations for the possession of a single homeland, that ended with the terrible holocaust of 1915, when a million and a half Armenians perished."[16]


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## irosie91 (Mar 3, 2013)

I attended the deathbed of an elderly woman who had---as a child--survived 
the armenian genocide.   The person who briefed me in the case asked me..
do you know about that  ARMENIAN GENOCIDE?      I answered  "yes"---
because I did.      He seemed a bit surprised.    For the sake of that now 
dead elderly lady----I RESENT   Bernard Lewis's statement suggesting 
that the genocide which took that woman's ENTIRE family----
is an  ARMENIAN FANTASY-----it happened just as the german genocide 
happened and just as the genocide of the biafrans happened and just 
as the genocide in  east pakistan happened and just as scores of other 
genocides happened------including the present ongoing genocide in syria.


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## Annika55 (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> Annika55 said:
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My post about Lewis is completely accurate. I did not say Lewis denied the deaths of Armenians, but he considered them as a result of war, not a genocide.
He was tried and fined in France for his position on the Armenian Genocide. He*considered a comparison of the Armenian deaths with the Holocaust of the Jews to be absurd.*

Statement of Professor Bernard Lewis
Princeton University
Distinguishing Armenian Case from Holocaust
April 14, 2002
C-SPAN2
bookstv.org: The Leading TV Book Site on the Net
Question: The British press reported in 1997 that your views on the killing of one million
Armenians by the Turks in 1915 did not amount to genocide and in this report in the Independentof London, says that a French court fined you one frank in damages after you said there was no*genocide. This obviously triggered a debate in Israel where this quoted article (Moderator cuts
in and asks him to ask his question as their running out of time). My question is, sir, have your*views changed on this whether the killing of one million Armenians amounts to genocide and*your views on this judgment?
Bernard Lewis responds: This is a question of definition and nowadays the word "genocide"
is used very loosely even in cases where no bloodshed is involved at all and I can understand the*annoyance of those who feel refused. But in this particular case, the point that was being made*was that the massacre of the Armenians in the Ottoman Empire was the same as what happened*to Jews in Nazi Germany and that is a downright falsehood. What happened to the Armenians*was the result of a massive Armenian armed rebellion against the Turks, which began even*before war broke out, and continued on a larger scale.
Great numbers of Armenians, including members of the armed forces, deserted, crossed the*frontier and joined the Russian forces invading Turkey. Armenian rebels actually seized the city*of Van and held it for a while intending to hand it over to the invaders. There was guerilla*warfare all over Anatolia. And it is what we nowadays call the National Movement of Armenians*Against Turkey. The Turks certainly resorted to very ferocious methods in repelling it.
There is clear evidence of a decision by the Turkish Government, to deport the Armenian
population from the sensitive areas. Which meant naturally the whole of Anatolia. Not including*the Arab provinces which were then still part of the Ottoman Empire. There is no evidence of a*decision to massacre. On the contrary, there is considerable evidence of attempt to prevent it,*which were not very successful. Yes there were tremendous massacres, the numbers are very uncertain but a million may well be likely.
The massacres were carried out by irregulars, by local villagers responding to what had been done to them and in number of other ways. But to make this, a parallel with the holocaust in Germany, you would have to assume the Jews of Germany had been engaged in an armed rebellion against the German state, collaborating with the allies against Germany. That in the*deportation order the cities of Hamburg and Berlin were exempted, persons in the employment*of state were exempted, and the deportation only applied to the Jews of Germany proper, so that*when they got to Poland they were welcomed and sheltered by the Polish Jews. This seems to me a rather absurd parallel.


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## Roudy (Mar 3, 2013)

Annika55 said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Maryland -
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As usual Saigooon only gets half the info right.


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## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> I attended the deathbed of an elderly woman who had---as a child--survived
> the armenian genocide.   The person who briefed me in the case asked me..
> do you know about that  ARMENIAN GENOCIDE?      I answered  "yes"---
> because I did.      He seemed a bit surprised.    For the sake of that now
> ...



Bernard Lewis was the first Westerner permitted to review the Ottoman archives after WW I so he probably is more knowledgeable than others posting on a messageboard.  Just a guess.


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## Roudy (Mar 3, 2013)

Annika55 said:


> Maryland said:
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I agree with Lewis on this. To compare what the Turks did on the same level as the Holocaust is a stretch. Two nations were at war, and the Turks won, but that wasn't enough, so the Turks started committing genocide on the Armenians. A genocide did occur. But on the same level as the Nazis who built concentration camps and ovens and gas chambers? No.  However that doesn't make Lewis a "Holocaust denier" as falsely represented by Saigooon.


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## irosie91 (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > I attended the deathbed of an elderly woman who had---as a child--survived
> ...




Deathbed statements are the MOST KNOWLEDGABLE----my patient 
saw her entire family slaughtered       Even in law---deathbed state-
ments are sacrosanct.   She has no reason to try to convince me


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## Hossfly (Mar 3, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > Just like the Arabs changed the name of Judeah and Samaria after 3000 years to "West Bank". Is it still Judeah and Samaria or not?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Suomi - Finland / Soviet Finland


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## theliq (Mar 4, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > > Just like the Arabs changed the name of Judeah and Samaria after 3000 years to "West Bank". Is it still Judeah and Samaria or not?
> ...



Soumi only Hoss although the Ruskies did harvest some of the Finns land after WW2

Finns are NOT fond of Russia,Soviet Union or CCCP.

Trust you are well Matey.....steve


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## theliq (Mar 4, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> for maryland---while the moniker---PALESTINE---
> was avoided for OFFICIAL PURPOSES  by the
> jews living there----the statement that jews
> avoided it completely is untrue----it shows up
> ...



OLD BOOKS being the operative WORD HERE Rosie


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## theliq (Mar 4, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > The British first called south Syria/Israel "Palestine" after collapse of the Ottoman Empire in World War I.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I AGREE the sense of stupidity at times on here is really something to BEHOLD,keep kicking ass.......... Sai


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## irosie91 (Mar 4, 2013)

theliq said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > for maryland---while the moniker---PALESTINE---
> ...




   right---written published records---not the hallucinations of a rapist 
      pig in a bat feces encrusted cave


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## theliq (Mar 4, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> theliq said:
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Trust you were not referring to me here Rosiesteve


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## Maryland (Mar 4, 2013)

theliq said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > for maryland---while the moniker---PALESTINE---
> ...



The old Bible is the foundation of a civilized society.  

The old koran is the foundation of destruction of civilization


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## theliq (Mar 4, 2013)

Maryland said:


> theliq said:
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So you have Never read the Koran then......Silly Comment Then. So you have Never read the Bible either......Sillier than silly comment thenand ill read


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## Maryland (Mar 4, 2013)

theliq said:


> Maryland said:
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You've read neither.

Bible: Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself.

Quran: We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone


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## Hossfly (Mar 4, 2013)

theliq said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
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> > Saigon said:
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I know it's Suomi.  However the customs stickers on a car in Europe have E for Spain (Espania), D for Germany (Deutschland) and SF for Soumi/Finland. Therefore, Soviet Finland we called it.


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## theliq (Mar 4, 2013)

Maryland said:


> theliq said:
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Bible may say it but who in history ADHERES to such sentiment........?????  as the Jews know full well


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## theliq (Mar 4, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> theliq said:
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## Maryland (Mar 4, 2013)

theliq said:


> Maryland said:
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Ever hear of the 10 Commandments, inbred?  Leviticus is inscribed on the Liberty Bell: "Proclaim Liberty Throughout the Land"  "Love Thy Neighbor As Thyself" is the model for the Golden Rule.

Take your meds, psycho.


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## theliq (Mar 4, 2013)

Maryland said:


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Such an Idiot,I repeat,the Bible may Say IT...but NO ONE ADHERES TO IT.....So your abuse is INFANTILE.JERK


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## Hossfly (Mar 4, 2013)

theliq said:


> Maryland said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
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Go curry your wallaby, Digger.


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## theliq (Mar 4, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> theliq said:
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For the more Studious of Israeli History may wish to know that Jewish football(soccer) teams entered THE PALESTINE LEAGUE as early as the 1931-1932 Season


So much for Palestine not existing prior to 1948.

His Magnificence....H.I.M.


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## Maryland (Mar 4, 2013)

theliq said:


> Maryland said:
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*Constitutional Rights Foundation: The Hebrews and the Foundation of Western Law 
The Ten Commandments and many other elements of Hebrew law provided a major source for the development of western legal systems and democracy.* 


> Three thousand years ago, the ancient Hebrew people lived in the Near East in an area called Canaan. This ancient people developed the idea of monotheism, the belief in one god. They believed that their god gave them laws to regulate their society, their religious practices, and their relationships with other people.
> 
> Conquered by the neo-Babylonians and later by the Romans, the Hebrews eventually became a scattered people, living in many countries under different legal systems. But they continued to develop their own law and tried to follow it even in foreign lands. Their law was based on the Ten Commandments and other sacred writings, which today we find in the Hebrew Bible. In developing their law, they sometimes borrowed legal concepts from other civilizations as well as passing on their own ideas. The Jewish law that developed influenced Roman law, English law, and our own Declaration of Independence and Constitution.
> 
> ...


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## Roudy (Mar 4, 2013)

theliq said:


> Hossfly said:
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Nobody claimed that Palestine "didn't exist before 1948".


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## irosie91 (Mar 4, 2013)

Roudy said:


> theliq said:
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roudy---islamo nazis lie.     They have stated several times in the 
past two days that   "jews claim palestine did not exist" ----it is a 
technique of their characteristic mendacity ---and a kind of route 
for them to CLAIM TRIUMPH    when they "prove"  the alleged state-
ment wrong.    To this point when the sluts and dogs make the 
claim that  "jews say palestine never existed ---I tend to ignore them 
in the same way I ignore a pile of dog shit in the gutter


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## Maryland (Mar 4, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Roudy said:
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Islam is an amoral cult that advocates lying, called taqiyya.  Trust the muhammadan to your peril


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## theliq (Mar 4, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Roudy said:
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But some have claimed this"DOG SHIT" rosie,I'm talking the Jewish lobby on here.so it's extremely encouraging to see you are ignoring them......steve


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## theliq (Mar 4, 2013)

Maryland said:


> irosie91 said:
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IS THERE SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOU


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## Maryland (Mar 4, 2013)

theliq said:


> irosie91 said:
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You mean the Christian lobby, psycho 

Christians United For Israel...


> Christians United for Israel has grown to become the largest pro-Israel organization in the United States and one of the leading Christian grassroots movements in the world. CUFI spans all fifty states and reaches millions with our message. Each year CUFI holds hundreds of pro-Israel events in cities around the country. And each July, thousands of pro-Israel Christians gather in Washington, D.C. to participate in the CUFI Washington Summit and make their voices heard in support of Israel and the Jewish people.
> Our impact has been immediate. Our growth has been phenomenal. And we've only just begun.
> Welcome - Christians United for Israel


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## theliq (Mar 4, 2013)

Roudy said:


> theliq said:
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Some have Roudy...I shall remind you,next time I see it.steve(please don't expect me to trawl the past posts,to show you as it tends to tax my brain)


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## theliq (Mar 4, 2013)

Maryland said:


> theliq said:
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IS THERE SOMETHING MENTALLY WRONG WITH YOU Christians for Israel.....SUCH A SHAME YOU HAVE SLAUGHTERED SO MANY JEWS....YOU ARE A JOKE'now take that silver spoon out of your wretched ASS and SHOVE it in your MOUTH


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## theliq (Mar 5, 2013)

Maryland said:


> irosie91 said:
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Coming from a FUNDIMENTALIST CHRISTIAN LIKE YOU.....I CAN ONLY ASSUME YOU ARE A BULLSHIT ARTIST..........FUNDIMENTALISTS(IN GENERAL) ARE EVIL BASTARDS....take that to your next RACIST TEA PARTY ASSEMBLY


theliq


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## theliq (Mar 5, 2013)

Maryland said:


> theliq said:
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Roudy STOP encouraging this Fool.


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## irosie91 (Mar 5, 2013)

jews cook well too-----talmudic style


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## theliq (Mar 5, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> jews cook well too-----talmudic style



Indeed they DO..


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## Saigon (Mar 5, 2013)

> You have no idea WTF you're talking about so I'll instruct you: Dr. Lewis does not deny the deaths of Armenians under Turkish rule. His view is that the Turks did not intentionally commit genocide.



I do have a fairly good idea what I am talking about, bauble - enough that I have been to Armenia and read all of the major books about the genocide - from 'Musa Dagh' onwards. Have you?

Lewis's position on the genocide is appalling and unforgivable. It disgraced him as a historian, and tarnished his legacy as much as Chomsky's comments on Cambodia tarnished his. 

It's also notable that he indirectly received money from a Turkish organisation for his comments, and was caught ghost writing comments for a Turkish ambassador.

Obviously you know all of this since you are such an expert on the man - even more surprising that you continue to quote him as a historian and not as a kind of source-for-hire.

Here's the Wiki overview of the scandal:

On May 19, 1985, The New York Times and The Washington Post ran an advertisement in which a group of 69 American historians called on Congress not to adopt the resolution on the Armenian Genocide. Bernard Lewis, a prominent historian of Islam at Princeton, was among them and so the case was named after him. The advertisement *was paid for by the Committee of the Turkish Associations*. Another important signee was Heath Lowry, the director of the Institute of Turkish Studies at Georgetown. Lewis and Lowry have been included among the key deniers of the Armenian Genocide and according to Roger W. Smith, Eric Markusen and Robert Jay Lifton, he was also advising on how to prevent mention of the Armenian Genocide in scholarly works, to and was *"caught ghosting" for the Turkish ambassador* in Washington regarding the denial of the Armenian Genocide. The Armenian Assembly of America and found that many or most of the 69 academics apparently *benefited directly or indirectly from Turkish government research grants* . According to Yair Auron, an Israeli historian, scholar and expert specializing in Genocide studies and racism, this advertisement is a good example of one of many Turkish attempts to influence academia, a project on which Turkey spends enormous funds

Armenian Genocide denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyone interested in the genocide should start with the stunning "Forty Days at Musa Dagh", it's the "Schindler's List" of the Armenian genocide.


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## Maryland (Mar 5, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > You have no idea WTF you're talking about so I'll instruct you: Dr. Lewis does not deny the deaths of Armenians under Turkish rule. His view is that the Turks did not intentionally commit genocide.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're allowed to be an idiot.  


*Bernard Lewis, National Endowment For The Humanities National Humanities Medalist*


> Bernard Lewis is considered by many to be the greatest living historian of the Muslim world. He has pursued his primary interest, the history of the Ottoman Empire, producing groundbreaking works including The Emergence of Modern Turkey, The Political Language of Islam, The Muslim Discovery of Europe, The Jews of Islam, and Islam and the West. His most recent publication is From Babel to Dragomans: Interpreting the Middle East. Other titles by Lewis: The Crisis of Islam: Holy War & Unholy Terror; What Went Wrong: The Clash Between Islam and Modernity in the Middle East; Western Impact and the Middle Eastern Response; A Middle East Mosaic: Fragments of Life, Letters and History; The Multiple Identities of the Middle East; and The Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2,000 Years.
> 
> Born in London, England, in 1916, Lewis became attracted to languages and history at an early age. Lewis's interest in history was stirred thanks to his bar mitzvah ceremony, during which he received as a gift a book on Jewish history. He graduated in 1936 from the then School of Oriental Studies (SOAS, now School of Oriental and African Studies) at the University of London with a B.A. in history with special reference to the Near and Middle East, and obtaining his Ph.D. three years later, also from SOAS, specializing in the history of Islam. During the Second World War, Lewis served in the British Army in the Royal Armoured Corps and Intelligence Corps in 1940-41, and was then attached to a department of the Foreign Office. After the war he returned to SOAS, and in 1949 he was appointed to the new chair in Near and Middle Eastern history at the age of 33.
> 
> ...






> The National Endowment for the Humanities (NEH) is an independent federal agency created in 1965. It is one of the largest funders of humanities programs in the United States.
> 
> Because democracy demands wisdom, NEH serves and strengthens our republic by promoting excellence in the humanities and conveying the lessons of history to all Americans. The Endowment accomplishes this mission by awarding grants for top-rated proposals examined by panels of independent, external reviewers.
> 
> ...


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## Saigon (Mar 5, 2013)

Maryland - 

I would never have expected an adult or honest response from you. 

You are a child, and you clearly don't even know who your own sources are.


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## Roudy (Mar 5, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland -
> 
> I would never have expected an adult or honest response from you.
> 
> You are a child, and you clearly don't even know who your own sources are.


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## Maryland (Mar 5, 2013)

Saigon said:


> Maryland -
> 
> I would never have expected an adult or honest response from you.
> 
> You are a child, and you clearly don't even know who your own sources are.



A child would even be intelligent enough to not call an Arab an "Arabic" as you did  

http://www.usmessageboard.com/6898202-post803.html


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## theliq (Mar 6, 2013)

Saigon said:


> > You have no idea WTF you're talking about so I'll instruct you: Dr. Lewis does not deny the deaths of Armenians under Turkish rule. His view is that the Turks did not intentionally commit genocide.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Turks did THE CRIME, now they are good mates with the US,if you go back,America are and have been MATES with so many FERAL REGIMES.

But the TURKS DID THE CRIME.......steve


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## theliq (Mar 6, 2013)

Maryland said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Maryland said:
> ...



Looks GREAT AS THE WRITTEN WORD.....SHAME THAT NO ONE ADHERES TO IT.....I will only attest to one that YOU do NOT ADHERE TO,Maryland .......and it is "BEAR FALSE WITNESS...but there are others of course,but as I don't really know you,just a small Humiliation for you today......Kindly Liq


Maybe you could enlighten us all on CURRENT ISRAELI LAW TOWARDS PALESTINIANS,if you have the backbone.I'm theliq......Ever Living,Ever Faithful,Ever Sure of the Truth and Rights.


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## theliq (Mar 19, 2013)

theliq said:


> Maryland said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



I note NO answer and the SILENCE


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