# This Is Why I Always Helped Illegals Who Came To My Door



## Luddly Neddite

Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel


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## Stephanie

really, and how many has that been?

100's 1000's


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## Hossfly

Luddly Neddite said:


> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel


I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
Anyone crossing the border in that area and trying to make it north on foot is gonna pay dearly. Also I blame the Mexican government for those deaths.


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## R.D.

Sure you did


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## pismoe

piffle !!


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## dblack

Hossfly said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
Click to expand...


I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.


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## Hossfly

dblack said:


> Hossfly said:
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> 
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> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
Click to expand...

*?*


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## Luddly Neddite

dblack said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
Click to expand...


I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.

But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.

Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.


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## pismoe

SURE ya did Luddley  !!


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## dblack

Luddly Neddite said:


> dblack said:
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> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
Click to expand...


Much of my perspective on this formed when I was a union construction worker. Union guys pretty consistently look down on non-union workers, but have a particular contempt for immigrant, non-union workers. And I couldn't get past the irony that the 'wetbacks' they so despised, in general, worked twice as hard as the union jackasses who spit on them for their effort. And for a fraction of union wages.


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## pismoe

as a GENERAL RULE it seems to me that any decent person will help ANY individual person in dire need and its nothing to even talk about except for encouraging help to needy people .  I didn't read the link except for a real quick perusal .   ---------  So , helping individuals in dire need is nothing to be bragging about !!


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## Vigilante

*Sign posted at Nuttley's shack*


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## CrusaderFrank

Shouldn't Illegals be allowed to drive off with any car with an Obama Sticker?

Shouldn't they be allowed to camp out at Pelosi's office?


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## Luddly Neddite

I can still see some of those faces, dirty and exhausted and really, just about done in. Perched on the edge of the couch or drinking boiling hot water from the hose in the front yard.

I would always try to have chocolate and real orange juice on hand. I'd make them cheese sandwiches and fill up their water jugs with ice and water. I'd also keep small bottles of water frozen so they would thaw as they walked, giving them cold water.

People have no idea how many Border Patrol there are around Tucson. I can remember seeing the Border Patrol trucks go by and once, one followed me on the dirt road when I had four illegals in the car with me. If he had stopped me, I would have ended up in jail.

Several times, I drove them into town to the bus stop. And 2-3 times, drove them all the way to Eloy, a farming community north of Tucson, where they had jobs waiting in the fields.

They always wanted to pay for the help and would have money in plastic baggies in their shoe.

Once, driving into Tucson on Ajo, I picked up a family. It was one of the extremely hot summers in the 80s and they just about couldn't walk another step. I stopped at a Circle K and got hot dogs, candy bars and water for each of them. They recognized the Border Patrol HQ on Ajo just inside Tucson. They had a map with a destination on the Tohono O'odom reservation south of Tucson, so I took them there. It was a tiny adobe house and people poured out to welcome their family members.

The saddest was when the sheriff was holding three in my front yard, waiting for Border Patrol to come get them. They were sitting on the ground, under the tree, totally exhausted, very near complete collapse. The deputy misunderstood, saying he was sorry but they'd get them out of my yard as soon as they could. I made flavored coffee for them, hot and sugary and one of them kissed my hand.

I would always tell them, Via con Dios when we parted.

Some of them walk for weeks and weeks. Most of the women are raped - I've read that its more than 80%

Sometime ago, there was an article in the AZ Daily Star about what happens to the body when you die of dehydration. It must be a real horror - very painful. The illegals themselves would find bodies of others who didn't make it.

How desperate must someone be to leave everything they know and love to risk it all?


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## Luddly Neddite

dblack said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
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> dblack said:
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> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Much of my perspective on this formed when I was a union construction worker. Union guys pretty consistently look down on non-union workers, but have a particular contempt for immigrant, non-union workers. And I couldn't get past the irony that the 'wetbacks' they so despised, in general, worked twice as hard as the union jackasses who spit on them for their effort. And for a fraction of union wages.
Click to expand...


You're right and I've seen it.

They do the work that no American wants or, likely, could even do.

I've written before about the family who did yard work for me while we still lived in Tucson before we moved out of the city. They asked $5 a hour and did more work and better than any American I ever hired. I paid them $10 an hour and gave them a lawn mower we never used. I don't know if they were legal or not because I never asked.

I wish Americans felt as strongly about the drug cartels as they do migrant farm workers.


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## pismoe

I've often wondered why the USA hasn't developed crop picking machines if Americans won't do the crop picking for piddling wages  .   We've been to the moon , plumbed the ocean depths and we can't make crop picking machines , doesn't make sense to me .    Then again I don't mind illegals picking crops if once crops are picked the pickers / illegals  are sent home .   Think that's how it used to be , something called - Bracero - or some such I think .


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## dblack

pismoe said:


> as a GENERAL RULE it seems to me that any decent person will help ANY individual person in dire need and its nothing to even talk about except for encouraging help to needy people .  I didn't read the link except for a real quick perusal .   ---------  So , helping individuals in dire need is nothing to be bragging about !!



Indeed. And I trust that, despite some of the ridiculous bravado that goes on on these boards, that's how most react to real life suffering. My dad, for example, was a dyed-in-the-wool racist, but underneath such an ugly shortcoming, he was decent man - and I saw him consistently treat _individuals_ with compassion and respect, regardless of their race. Only a thoroughgoing bigot can look another human being in the eye and ignore the person, seeing only an object of their ideology or prejudices.


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## pismoe

drug cartels , Americans should stop using drug cartel supplied drugs I guess !!


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## Luddly Neddite

dblack said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> as a GENERAL RULE it seems to me that any decent person will help ANY individual person in dire need and its nothing to even talk about except for encouraging help to needy people .  I didn't read the link except for a real quick perusal .   ---------  So , helping individuals in dire need is nothing to be bragging about !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. And I trust that, despite some of the ridiculous bravado that goes on on these boards, that's how most react to real life suffering. My dad, for example, was a dyed-in-the-wool racist, but underneath such an ugly shortcoming, he was decent man - and I saw him consistently treat _individuals_ with compassion and respect, regardless of their race. Only a thoroughgoing bigot can look another human being in the eye and ignore the person, seeing only an object of their ideology or prejudices.
Click to expand...


I agree. My own father was racist as well and once dragged me off a dance floor for dancing with a black. But, like you say, he was also a good and decent man. He was simply born at a time when ignorance about race was rampant. Uh, much like we're seeing from some people now.

Another thing I often saw in Tucson was that Mexicans would always stop to help others in need. Broken down car or whatever - Mexican Americans would never pass you by. I once asked a brash young man why that is and he and his friends all kind of laughed and said because they're mothers would let them have it if they ever passed up someone needing help. 

Mexicans are also very family oriented. I would often see young guys with their babies/children in grocery stores or similar settings. You would never see them scold or ignore or expect their wives to take care of the child. They might look like young toughs but they treat their kids with such incredible love and caring - its truly touching. 

I've been gone from Tcsn for more than 7 years now so this might have changed but there was a church that defied the law to put out water stations in the desert. 

I also knew of others who did as we did - they simply helped the people who came to their door.  What a shame that reaching out a helping hand to a fellow human being is now against the law.

We do have machines that pick some crops. Others must still be harvested by hand. 

The US has used migrant farm workers for generations. And, we have always treated them in the most shameful ways. We use them and hate them for it. Its a modern day slavery.


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## Skull Pilot

Anyone stupid enough to venture into Death Valley unprepared deserves to be buzzard food.


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## Luddly Neddite

pismoe said:


> drug cartels , Americans should stop using drug cartel supplied drugs I guess !!



Yep.

Until we address that, we will always have drugs coming from the south. The people of those countries pay the same price in the form of increased crime and the loss of cultural stability.


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## pismoe

yep 'dblack' , it was my DAD that helped form my view on race .   He was not hostile or wishy washy with different races .   All he did was treat people of all race's in the same way .


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## pismoe

the drugs will never stop  imo Luddley .   I use a little alcohol , beer on occasion but that's it .   I don't think that there is an answer to the drug problem other than making everthing legal and letting people get sick and die --- or some kinda hardcore rehabilitation !!


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## Luddly Neddite

pismoe said:


> the drugs will never stop  imo Luddley .   I use a little alcohol , beer on occasion but that's it .   I don't think that there is an answer to the drug problem other than making everthing legal and letting people get sick and die --- or some kinda hardcore rehabilitation !!




Well, you know what they say about opinions ...


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## Uncensored2008

Vigilante said:


> *Sign posted at Nuttley's shack*



The sign needs to be in Spanish.


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## HereWeGoAgain

Luddly Neddite said:


> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel



  I truly hope the ones that came to my house show up on your doorstep.
And I hope you're not armed....like I was.


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## Vandalshandle

Skull Pilot said:


> Anyone stupid enough to venture into Death Valley unprepared deserves to be buzzard food.



Uh, Skull.....It is not Death Valley. That is only a descriptive term.

I am beginning to understand why the Right just does not understand a lot of things....


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## NLT

Boy luddly sure laid the lies on thick in this fantasy thread of his.


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## Vandalshandle

Luddly,
Some friends of mine belong to an organization that puts water in the desert, and patrols for those that want to turn themselves in, because they are at the end of their rope. I have joined them a couple of times. When you see these folks, sometimes without shoes, dehydrated, hungry, and suffering from expose to the elements, I am at a loss as to how people can lack compassion for them.


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## pismoe

not a lack of compassion on my part VShandal , if they make it out alive then help them out and ship them back !!   Their thoughts that they may be rescued , helped out or find water stations may be a MAGNET to them .


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## pismoe

TO NO ONE IN PARTICULAR , but ---   I mean , should they be provided transportation across the desert and into the USA . Sure its hard for a poor person to cross a desert in 120 degree weather as the water runs low !!


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## Vandalshandle

pismoe said:


> not a lack of compassion on my part VShandal , if they make it out alive then help them out and ship them back !!   Their thoughts that they may be rescued , helped out or find water stations may be a MAGNET to them .



If they want to be rescued, we radio Border Patrol, who detain them for trial in Tucson. It is illegal for us to transport them anywhere. Not even to a hospital.


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## pismoe

thanks VShandal !!


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## Katzndogz

Vandalshandle said:


> Luddly,
> Some friends of mine belong to an organization that puts water in the desert, and patrols for those that want to turn themselves in, because they are at the end of their rope. I have joined them a couple of times. When you see these folks, sometimes without shoes, dehydrated, hungry, and suffering from expose to the elements, I am at a loss as to how people can lack compassion for them.



I have no compassion for criminals who bring on their own disastrous circumstances.   They decided to come here.   We owe them nothing.  Destroy the water stations.  It only encourages them.


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## Vandalshandle

Katzndogz said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly,
> Some friends of mine belong to an organization that puts water in the desert, and patrols for those that want to turn themselves in, because they are at the end of their rope. I have joined them a couple of times. When you see these folks, sometimes without shoes, dehydrated, hungry, and suffering from expose to the elements, I am at a loss as to how people can lack compassion for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no compassion for criminals who bring on their own disastrous circumstances.   They decided to come here.   We owe them nothing.  Destroy the water stations.  It only encourages them.
Click to expand...


Nope.


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## Skull Pilot

Vandalshandle said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone stupid enough to venture into Death Valley unprepared deserves to be buzzard food.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, Skull.....It is not Death Valley. That is only a descriptive term.
> 
> I am beginning to understand why the Right just does not understand a lot of things....
Click to expand...

I'll never understand why "the left" uses so much hyperbole.

Death Valley is a specific place in the USA is it not?

Then why use it as a descriptive term unless one is deliberately over blowing their position?


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## Esmeralda

Luddly Neddite said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
Click to expand...

It's a matter of one's humanity.  Not helping those in desperate need is displaying a lack of decency and humanity.  Wishing death on them simply because they break a crossing the border law indicates the same: a lack of basic human decency and humanity.


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## Esmeralda

Katzndogz said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly,
> Some friends of mine belong to an organization that puts water in the desert, and patrols for those that want to turn themselves in, because they are at the end of their rope. I have joined them a couple of times. When you see these folks, sometimes without shoes, dehydrated, hungry, and suffering from expose to the elements, I am at a loss as to how people can lack compassion for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no compassion for criminals who bring on their own disastrous circumstances.   They decided to come here.   We owe them nothing.  Destroy the water stations.  It only encourages them.
Click to expand...

Katz, it's no surprise you have no compassion for them. In fact, it would be a surprse if you had any compassion at all for anyone but your own sorry self.


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## Rikurzhen

pismoe said:


> I've often wondered why the USA hasn't developed crop picking machines if Americans won't do the crop picking for piddling wages



They have but it's cheaper for farmers to reap the benefits of cheap labor and shove all the social costs of supporting the peasants onto taxpayers. When citizens put their foot down, or more accurately use their foot to kick the asses of the infiltrators out of the country, then innovation seems to fix the problems:

Economist Philip Martin of the University of California likes to tell a story about the state's tomato industry. In the early 1960s, growers relied on seasonal Mexican laborers, brought in under the government's "bracero" program. The Mexicans picked the tomatoes that were then processed into ketchup and other products. In 1964 Congress killed the program despite growers' warnings that its abolition would doom their industry. What happened? *Well, plant scientists developed oblong tomatoes that could be harvested by machine. Since then, California's tomato output has risen fivefold.*​


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## Rikurzhen

dblack said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> as a GENERAL RULE it seems to me that any decent person will help ANY individual person in dire need and its nothing to even talk about except for encouraging help to needy people .  I didn't read the link except for a real quick perusal .   ---------  So , helping individuals in dire need is nothing to be bragging about !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. And I trust that, despite some of the ridiculous bravado that goes on on these boards, that's how most react to real life suffering. My dad, for example, was a dyed-in-the-wool racist, but underneath such an ugly shortcoming, he was decent man - and I saw him consistently treat _individuals_ with compassion and respect, regardless of their race. Only a thoroughgoing bigot can look another human being in the eye and ignore the person, seeing only an object of their ideology or prejudices.
Click to expand...


Please try to refrain from expressing your compassion by reaching into my wallet in order to fund the externalities which arise from your expression of compassion.


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## Rikurzhen

Esmeralda said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
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> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a matter of one's humanity.  Not helping those in desperate need is displaying a lack of decency and humanity.  Wishing death on them *simply because they break a crossing the border* law indicates the same: a lack of basic human decency and humanity.
Click to expand...


On display here is the simplistic worldview of a socialist. Yeah, everyone's unreasonable simply because of a technicality of a border law being broken, kind of like violating a law which mandates that men must wear bow ties on Tuesdays, just a silly, inconsequential law.


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## Esmeralda

Rikurzhen said:


> Esmeralda said:
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> Luddly Neddite said:
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> dblack said:
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> Hossfly said:
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> 
> 
> 
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> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a matter of one's humanity.  Not helping those in desperate need is displaying a lack of decency and humanity.  Wishing death on them *simply because they break a crossing the border* law indicates the same: a lack of basic human decency and humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On display here is the simplistic worldview of a socialist. Yeah, everyone's unreasonable simply because of a technicality of a border law being broken, kind of like violating a law which mandates that men must wear bow ties on Tuesdays, just a silly, inconsequential law.
Click to expand...

Murdering people because they cross the border, that's okay with you? You are a sick bastard.


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## Rikurzhen

Esmeralda said:


> Rikurzhen said:
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> Esmeralda said:
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> Luddly Neddite said:
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> dblack said:
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> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a matter of one's humanity.  Not helping those in desperate need is displaying a lack of decency and humanity.  Wishing death on them *simply because they break a crossing the border* law indicates the same: a lack of basic human decency and humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On display here is the simplistic worldview of a socialist. Yeah, everyone's unreasonable simply because of a technicality of a border law being broken, kind of like violating a law which mandates that men must wear bow ties on Tuesdays, just a silly, inconsequential law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Murdering people because they cross the border, that's okay with you? You are a sick bastard.
Click to expand...


First people who don't want illegal infiltrators in the country are wishing death upon them and now you've escalated the situation to us murdering the infiltrators.

Notice I pegged you pretty good, someone with a simplistic mindset - you see the world like a cartoon.


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## Esmeralda

Rikurzhen said:


> Esmeralda said:
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> Rikurzhen said:
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> Esmeralda said:
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> Luddly Neddite said:
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> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a matter of one's humanity.  Not helping those in desperate need is displaying a lack of decency and humanity.  Wishing death on them *simply because they break a crossing the border* law indicates the same: a lack of basic human decency and humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On display here is the simplistic worldview of a socialist. Yeah, everyone's unreasonable simply because of a technicality of a border law being broken, kind of like violating a law which mandates that men must wear bow ties on Tuesdays, just a silly, inconsequential law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Murdering people because they cross the border, that's okay with you? You are a sick bastard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First people who don't want illegal infiltrators in the country are wishing death upon them and now you've escalated the situation to us murdering the infiltrators.
> 
> Notice I pegged you pretty good, someone with a simplistic mindset - you see the world like a cartoon.
Click to expand...

That's a nifty little boomerang you use.


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## Rikurzhen

Esmeralda said:


> Rikurzhen said:
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> Esmeralda said:
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> Rikurzhen said:
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> Esmeralda said:
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> Luddly Neddite said:
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> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
> 
> 
> 
> It's a matter of one's humanity.  Not helping those in desperate need is displaying a lack of decency and humanity.  Wishing death on them *simply because they break a crossing the border* law indicates the same: a lack of basic human decency and humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On display here is the simplistic worldview of a socialist. Yeah, everyone's unreasonable simply because of a technicality of a border law being broken, kind of like violating a law which mandates that men must wear bow ties on Tuesdays, just a silly, inconsequential law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Murdering people because they cross the border, that's okay with you? You are a sick bastard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First people who don't want illegal infiltrators in the country are wishing death upon them and now you've escalated the situation to us murdering the infiltrators.
> 
> Notice I pegged you pretty good, someone with a simplistic mindset - you see the world like a cartoon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's a nifty little boomerang you use.
Click to expand...

Quoting your own writing back to you is a pretty effective technique - you do all the discreditation work yourself. Thanks for making my job easy.


----------



## Skull Pilot

Esmeralda said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a matter of one's humanity.  Not helping those in desperate need is displaying a lack of decency and humanity.  Wishing death on them simply because they break a crossing the border law indicates the same: a lack of basic human decency and humanity.
Click to expand...

Those who willingly choose to walk the desert unprepared bring their need upon themselves.

If some illegal immigrant showed up on my doorstep after being foolish enough to walk unprepared through the desert I'd give them some water and call the cops to have them arrested.  There is no way I would let them in my home.


----------



## Katzndogz

Esmeralda said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly,
> Some friends of mine belong to an organization that puts water in the desert, and patrols for those that want to turn themselves in, because they are at the end of their rope. I have joined them a couple of times. When you see these folks, sometimes without shoes, dehydrated, hungry, and suffering from expose to the elements, I am at a loss as to how people can lack compassion for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no compassion for criminals who bring on their own disastrous circumstances.   They decided to come here.   We owe them nothing.  Destroy the water stations.  It only encourages them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Katz, it's no surprise you have no compassion for them. In fact, it would be a surprse if you had any compassion at all for anyone but your own sorry self.
Click to expand...


They are criminals.  Helping them commit their crimes is not compassion it is foolishness.


----------



## Stephanie

Katzndogz said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly,
> Some friends of mine belong to an organization that puts water in the desert, and patrols for those that want to turn themselves in, because they are at the end of their rope. I have joined them a couple of times. When you see these folks, sometimes without shoes, dehydrated, hungry, and suffering from expose to the elements, I am at a loss as to how people can lack compassion for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no compassion for criminals who bring on their own disastrous circumstances.   They decided to come here.   We owe them nothing.  Destroy the water stations.  It only encourages them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Katz, it's no surprise you have no compassion for them. In fact, it would be a surprse if you had any compassion at all for anyone but your own sorry self.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *They are criminals.  Helping them commit their crimes is not compassion it is foolishness*.
Click to expand...


the warped minds of a bleeding heart liberal
then they shout it from the roof tops to show just how good and compassionate they can be. Nothing like tooting your own and helping law breakers all at the same time. If they robbed them I bet they'd be tooting a different tune


----------



## Katzndogz

If those who help illegals were prosecuted when the illegals commit more crimes, maybe they wouldn't be stupid enough to "help".    When some illegal rapes a four year old, wouldn't it be nice if the person who helped the guy, fed him perhaps, sheltered him were prosecuted as an accomplice.    When someone gets their identity stolen, the person who put out the water station should have to pay off the damages that the illegal caused.  Then those who think it's compassionate to help might think twice about what they are really doing.


----------



## dblack

Katzndogz said:


> If those who help illegals were prosecuted when the illegals commit more crimes, maybe they wouldn't be stupid enough to "help".    When some illegal rapes a four year old, wouldn't it be nice if the person who helped the guy, fed him perhaps, sheltered him were prosecuted as an accomplice.    When someone gets their identity stolen, the person who put out the water station should have to pay off the damages that the illegal caused.  Then those who think it's compassionate to help might think twice about what they are really doing.



That's some sound legal reasoning right there. We should apply it across the board. From now on, if anyone you've ever been kind to commits a crime, you go to jail with them. Maybe that will put a lid on all this 'compassion' bullshit!


----------



## Katzndogz

dblack said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> If those who help illegals were prosecuted when the illegals commit more crimes, maybe they wouldn't be stupid enough to "help".    When some illegal rapes a four year old, wouldn't it be nice if the person who helped the guy, fed him perhaps, sheltered him were prosecuted as an accomplice.    When someone gets their identity stolen, the person who put out the water station should have to pay off the damages that the illegal caused.  Then those who think it's compassionate to help might think twice about what they are really doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's some sound legal reasoning right there. We should apply it across the board. From now on, if anyone you've ever been kind to commits a crime, you go to jail with them. Maybe that will put a lid on all this 'compassion' bullshit!
Click to expand...


Certainly if the kindness you are showing helps them commit that crime you should go to jail with them.   Mostly that's true.  It's called Accessory.  The guys now being prosecuted for "helping" the Boston Bombers ARE going to jail for "helping" their friend.  The compassion bullshit is what's causing the crime to begin with.


----------



## dblack

Katzndogz said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> If those who help illegals were prosecuted when the illegals commit more crimes, maybe they wouldn't be stupid enough to "help".    When some illegal rapes a four year old, wouldn't it be nice if the person who helped the guy, fed him perhaps, sheltered him were prosecuted as an accomplice.    When someone gets their identity stolen, the person who put out the water station should have to pay off the damages that the illegal caused.  Then those who think it's compassionate to help might think twice about what they are really doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's some sound legal reasoning right there. We should apply it across the board. From now on, if anyone you've ever been kind to commits a crime, you go to jail with them. Maybe that will put a lid on all this 'compassion' bullshit!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Certainly if the kindness you are showing helps them commit that crime you should go to jail with them.   Mostly that's true.  It's called Accessory.  The guys now being prosecuted for "helping" the Boston Bombers ARE going to jail for "helping" their friend.  The compassion bullshit is what's causing the crime to begin with.
Click to expand...


Nah.. you're equivocating. What you proposed isn't Accessory. Accessory is knowingly helping someone who is planning, or committing a crime. You want to nail people for helping someone who later goes on to commit a crime. I realize it was just an offhand remark, so there's no need to defend it like it was a serious proposal or anything. Unless you want to.


----------



## Moonglow

pismoe said:


> I've often wondered why the USA hasn't developed crop picking machines if Americans won't do the crop picking for piddling wages  .   We've been to the moon , plumbed the ocean depths and we can't make crop picking machines , doesn't make sense to me .    Then again I don't mind illegals picking crops if once crops are picked the pickers / illegals  are sent home .   Think that's how it used to be , something called - Bracero - or some such I think .


Some crops can only be picked by hand...


----------



## Katzndogz

dblack said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> If those who help illegals were prosecuted when the illegals commit more crimes, maybe they wouldn't be stupid enough to "help".    When some illegal rapes a four year old, wouldn't it be nice if the person who helped the guy, fed him perhaps, sheltered him were prosecuted as an accomplice.    When someone gets their identity stolen, the person who put out the water station should have to pay off the damages that the illegal caused.  Then those who think it's compassionate to help might think twice about what they are really doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's some sound legal reasoning right there. We should apply it across the board. From now on, if anyone you've ever been kind to commits a crime, you go to jail with them. Maybe that will put a lid on all this 'compassion' bullshit!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Certainly if the kindness you are showing helps them commit that crime you should go to jail with them.   Mostly that's true.  It's called Accessory.  The guys now being prosecuted for "helping" the Boston Bombers ARE going to jail for "helping" their friend.  The compassion bullshit is what's causing the crime to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah.. you're equivocating. What you proposed isn't Accessory. Accessory is knowingly helping someone who is planning, or committing a crime. You want to nail people for helping someone who later goes on to commit a crime. I realize it was just an offhand remark, so there's no need to defend it like it was a serious proposal or anything. Unless you want to.
Click to expand...


If you are helping them enter the country illegally they are committing a crime and you are helping them do it.   There are associated crimes that enable illegals to stay in this country illegally, you are helping them commit those crimes KNOWING that these crimes are associated with illegal entry.


----------



## pismoe

thankyou Moonglow , I believe that might be the case so import pickers , let'em pick and then send the pickers home .


----------



## dblack

Katzndogz said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> If those who help illegals were prosecuted when the illegals commit more crimes, maybe they wouldn't be stupid enough to "help".    When some illegal rapes a four year old, wouldn't it be nice if the person who helped the guy, fed him perhaps, sheltered him were prosecuted as an accomplice.    When someone gets their identity stolen, the person who put out the water station should have to pay off the damages that the illegal caused.  Then those who think it's compassionate to help might think twice about what they are really doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's some sound legal reasoning right there. We should apply it across the board. From now on, if anyone you've ever been kind to commits a crime, you go to jail with them. Maybe that will put a lid on all this 'compassion' bullshit!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Certainly if the kindness you are showing helps them commit that crime you should go to jail with them.   Mostly that's true.  It's called Accessory.  The guys now being prosecuted for "helping" the Boston Bombers ARE going to jail for "helping" their friend.  The compassion bullshit is what's causing the crime to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah.. you're equivocating. What you proposed isn't Accessory. Accessory is knowingly helping someone who is planning, or committing a crime. You want to nail people for helping someone who later goes on to commit a crime. I realize it was just an offhand remark, so there's no need to defend it like it was a serious proposal or anything. Unless you want to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you are helping them enter the country illegally they are committing a crime and you are helping them do it.   There are associated crimes that enable illegals to stay in this country illegally, you are helping them commit those crimes KNOWING that these crimes are associated with illegal entry.
Click to expand...


Heh .. ok, I guess you do want to chase this one down. 

No, if you help someone stay in the country illegally, you're only an accessory for their crime of being in the country illegally - or any other crimes that they might be planning that you are aware of.  You're not culpable for anything and everything they might do afterward. That's moronic on the face of it. By that reasoning the doctor who delivered Charles Manson should have gone to jail.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

dblack said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> If those who help illegals were prosecuted when the illegals commit more crimes, maybe they wouldn't be stupid enough to "help".    When some illegal rapes a four year old, wouldn't it be nice if the person who helped the guy, fed him perhaps, sheltered him were prosecuted as an accomplice.    When someone gets their identity stolen, the person who put out the water station should have to pay off the damages that the illegal caused.  Then those who think it's compassionate to help might think twice about what they are really doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's some sound legal reasoning right there. We should apply it across the board. From now on, if anyone you've ever been kind to commits a crime, you go to jail with them. Maybe that will put a lid on all this 'compassion' bullshit!
Click to expand...


  A hell of a lot more sound than the BS you just posted.
Big difference between helping someone you know is committing a crime vs. helping someone who MAY commit a crime at a later date.
    I have to believe you realize the difference and are just being argumentative.
If you actually believe what you posted you're a complete moron.


----------



## NLT

Luddly Neddite said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> *Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help*.
Click to expand...


I call BFS. Luddy the liar


----------



## Katzndogz

dblack said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> If those who help illegals were prosecuted when the illegals commit more crimes, maybe they wouldn't be stupid enough to "help".    When some illegal rapes a four year old, wouldn't it be nice if the person who helped the guy, fed him perhaps, sheltered him were prosecuted as an accomplice.    When someone gets their identity stolen, the person who put out the water station should have to pay off the damages that the illegal caused.  Then those who think it's compassionate to help might think twice about what they are really doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's some sound legal reasoning right there. We should apply it across the board. From now on, if anyone you've ever been kind to commits a crime, you go to jail with them. Maybe that will put a lid on all this 'compassion' bullshit!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Certainly if the kindness you are showing helps them commit that crime you should go to jail with them.   Mostly that's true.  It's called Accessory.  The guys now being prosecuted for "helping" the Boston Bombers ARE going to jail for "helping" their friend.  The compassion bullshit is what's causing the crime to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah.. you're equivocating. What you proposed isn't Accessory. Accessory is knowingly helping someone who is planning, or committing a crime. You want to nail people for helping someone who later goes on to commit a crime. I realize it was just an offhand remark, so there's no need to defend it like it was a serious proposal or anything. Unless you want to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you are helping them enter the country illegally they are committing a crime and you are helping them do it.   There are associated crimes that enable illegals to stay in this country illegally, you are helping them commit those crimes KNOWING that these crimes are associated with illegal entry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Heh .. ok, I guess you do want to chase this one down.
> 
> No, if you help someone stay in the country illegally, you're only an accessory for their crime of being in the country illegally - or any other crimes that they might be planning that you are aware of.  You're not culpable for anything and everything they might do afterward. That's moronic on the face of it. By that reasoning the doctor who delivered Charles Manson should have gone to jail.
Click to expand...


The doctor who delivered a baby shouldn't have gone to jail, but the doctor who treated John Wilkes Booth DID.


----------



## dblack

HereWeGoAgain said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> If those who help illegals were prosecuted when the illegals commit more crimes, maybe they wouldn't be stupid enough to "help".    When some illegal rapes a four year old, wouldn't it be nice if the person who helped the guy, fed him perhaps, sheltered him were prosecuted as an accomplice.    When someone gets their identity stolen, the person who put out the water station should have to pay off the damages that the illegal caused.  Then those who think it's compassionate to help might think twice about what they are really doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's some sound legal reasoning right there. We should apply it across the board. From now on, if anyone you've ever been kind to commits a crime, you go to jail with them. Maybe that will put a lid on all this 'compassion' bullshit!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A hell of a lot more sound than the BS you just posted.
> Big difference between helping someone you know is committing a crime vs. helping someone who MAY commit a crime at a later date.
> I have to believe you realize the difference and are just being argumentative.
> If you actually believe what you posted you're a complete moron.
Click to expand...


what are you talking about?


----------



## boedicca

Considering how violent felons who were deported are now recrossing the border into the U.S., I would not let any who showed up at my doorstep into my house.

I don't open the door for solicitors either.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

dblack said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> If those who help illegals were prosecuted when the illegals commit more crimes, maybe they wouldn't be stupid enough to "help".    When some illegal rapes a four year old, wouldn't it be nice if the person who helped the guy, fed him perhaps, sheltered him were prosecuted as an accomplice.    When someone gets their identity stolen, the person who put out the water station should have to pay off the damages that the illegal caused.  Then those who think it's compassionate to help might think twice about what they are really doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's some sound legal reasoning right there. We should apply it across the board. From now on, if anyone you've ever been kind to commits a crime, you go to jail with them. Maybe that will put a lid on all this 'compassion' bullshit!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A hell of a lot more sound than the BS you just posted.
> Big difference between helping someone you know is committing a crime vs. helping someone who MAY commit a crime at a later date.
> I have to believe you realize the difference and are just being argumentative.
> If you actually believe what you posted you're a complete moron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what are you talking about?
Click to expand...


 Unless you were being sarcastic,and if so my bad,there is a big difference in helping someone during the commission of a crime(entering the country illegally)and helping someone who MAY commit a crime at a later date.


----------



## dblack

ahh.. ok, yeah. I was definitely being sarcastic.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

boedicca said:


> Considering how violent felons who were deported are now recrossing the border into the U.S., I would not let any who showed up at my doorstep into my house.
> 
> I don't open the door for solicitors either.



     I call the cops when someone is going door to door in my neighborhood,unless of course it's the boy scouts/girl scouts or something along those lines.
     Those no soliciting signs and gates are there for a reason.
  Hell,they dont let Google street view in.


----------



## boedicca

HereWeGoAgain said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Considering how violent felons who were deported are now recrossing the border into the U.S., I would not let any who showed up at my doorstep into my house.
> 
> I don't open the door for solicitors either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I call the cops when someone is going door to door in my neighborhood,unless of course it's the boy scouts/girl scouts or something along those lines.
> Those no soliciting signs and gates are there for a reason.
> Hell,they dont let Google street view in.
Click to expand...



I hate Google Street View - and requested that they remove the image to my home.


----------



## Vandalshandle

[

They are criminals.  Helping them commit their crimes is not compassion it is foolishness.[/QUOTE]

They committed a misdemeanor, which is equivalent to possessing an ounce of pot in Michigan.


----------



## Hossfly

Moonglow said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've often wondered why the USA hasn't developed crop picking machines if Americans won't do the crop picking for piddling wages  .   We've been to the moon , plumbed the ocean depths and we can't make crop picking machines , doesn't make sense to me .    Then again I don't mind illegals picking crops if once crops are picked the pickers / illegals  are sent home .   Think that's how it used to be , something called - Bracero - or some such I think .
> 
> 
> 
> Some crops can only be picked by hand...
Click to expand...

Like boogers.


----------



## Vandalshandle

"If you are helping them enter the country illegally they are committing a crime and you are helping them do it." (Katz)

We give water to the thirsty, food to the hungry, and clothing to the naked. It is not only not a crime to do that. It is what Jesus taught Christian's to do. I am not a Christian, but, I have met very few of them in my life, anyway. Apparently, there are none at your house, either.


----------



## Moonglow

Hossfly said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've often wondered why the USA hasn't developed crop picking machines if Americans won't do the crop picking for piddling wages  .   We've been to the moon , plumbed the ocean depths and we can't make crop picking machines , doesn't make sense to me .    Then again I don't mind illegals picking crops if once crops are picked the pickers / illegals  are sent home .   Think that's how it used to be , something called - Bracero - or some such I think .
> 
> 
> 
> Some crops can only be picked by hand...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like boogers.
Click to expand...

and dingle berries...


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Katzndogz said:


> If those who help illegals were prosecuted when the illegals commit more crimes, maybe they wouldn't be stupid enough to "help".    When some illegal rapes a four year old, wouldn't it be nice if the person who helped the guy, fed him perhaps, sheltered him were prosecuted as an accomplice.    When someone gets their identity stolen, the person who put out the water station should have to pay off the damages that the illegal caused.  Then those who think it's compassionate to help might think twice about what they are really doing.



How funny that you persist with the fantasy that you're an attorney. 

Are you also still a doctor?

So, how come you only get paid to be a dog washer ... ?


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Esmeralda said:


> Rikurzhen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a matter of one's humanity.  Not helping those in desperate need is displaying a lack of decency and humanity.  Wishing death on them *simply because they break a crossing the border* law indicates the same: a lack of basic human decency and humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On display here is the simplistic worldview of a socialist. Yeah, everyone's unreasonable simply because of a technicality of a border law being broken, kind of like violating a law which mandates that men must wear bow ties on Tuesdays, just a silly, inconsequential law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Murdering people because they cross the border, that's okay with you? You are a sick bastard.
Click to expand...


The Nazis said the same thing about the Jews. 

Luckily, there was the French Resistance.

White slave "owners" said it too and the Underground Railroad was born. 

Some people will blindly follow laws that harm their fellow human beings. Others won't.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

HereWeGoAgain said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Considering how violent felons who were deported are now recrossing the border into the U.S., I would not let any who showed up at my doorstep into my house.
> 
> I don't open the door for solicitors either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I call the cops when someone is going door to door in my neighborhood,unless of course it's the boy scouts/girl scouts or something along those lines.
> Those no soliciting signs and gates are there for a reason.
> Hell,they dont let Google street view in.
Click to expand...


Good for you. Its way past time we put a stop to those damn holy roller, bible thumper types dragging little kids and grannies around with them and forcing trash tracts on unsuspecting home owners. 

But hey, you need to keep an eye on those boy/girl scouts. A lot of them are packin heat these days. Have your own piece at the ready before you open your door. 

One can never be too careful, right?


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Vandalshandle said:


> [
> 
> They are criminals.  Helping them commit their crimes is not compassion it is foolishness.



They committed a misdemeanor, which is equivalent to possessing an ounce of pot in Michigan.[/QUOTE]

On this board, that's reason to hang 'em high.

Edit -

Funny to me that some here would actually do that even though they wanted Obama to invade Mexico to "rescue" the guy who went back to the US to get his guns before going back into Mexico to -- do what? Sell the guns? Buy drugs?


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Vandalshandle said:


> "If you are helping them enter the country illegally they are committing a crime and you are helping them do it." (Katz)
> 
> We give water to the thirsty, food to the hungry, and clothing to the naked. It is not only not a crime to do that. It is what Jesus taught Christian's to do. I am not a Christian, but, I have met very few of them in my life, anyway. Apparently, there are none at your house, either.



As we often see here, some christians rant and preach but don't actually practice what they rant and preach.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Luddly Neddite said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Considering how violent felons who were deported are now recrossing the border into the U.S., I would not let any who showed up at my doorstep into my house.
> 
> I don't open the door for solicitors either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I call the cops when someone is going door to door in my neighborhood,unless of course it's the boy scouts/girl scouts or something along those lines.
> Those no soliciting signs and gates are there for a reason.
> Hell,they dont let Google street view in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good for you. Its way past time we put a stop to those damn holy roller, bible thumper types dragging little kids and grannies around with them and forcing trash tracts on unsuspecting home owners.
> 
> But hey, you need to keep an eye on those boy/girl scouts. A lot of them are packin heat these days. Have your own piece at the ready before you open your door.
> 
> One can never be too careful, right?
Click to expand...


 What kind of inane bullshit is this?
I specifically said I have no problem supporting the boy scouts/girl scouts,school fundraisers and the like when they come to my door because they live in my neighborhood and it's a good for my community.
    I can understand why you enjoy having magazine sales people coming to your door ....it's the only humane contact you get other than your parole officer.


----------



## Windship

dblack said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
Click to expand...

I think the laws against euthanasia should be ignored sometimes.


----------



## Windship

where do you live luddly?


----------



## Stephanie

Luds lives in some in other world the rest of us don't reside in.

good grief. he's see's himself as some saint now


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Windship said:


> where do you live luddly?



I left southwest Arizona about 7 years ago. Beyond that, I don't give out personal information on this board.


----------



## Oldglory1

Luddly Neddite said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> "If you are helping them enter the country illegally they are committing a crime and you are helping them do it." (Katz)
> 
> We give water to the thirsty, food to the hungry, and clothing to the naked. It is not only not a crime to do that. It is what Jesus taught Christian's to do. I am not a Christian, but, I have met very few of them in my life, anyway. Apparently, there are none at your house, either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As we often see here, some christians rant and preach but don't actually practice what they rant and preach.
Click to expand...


There is no Christian teaching that supports aiding and abetting criminals.  Are you serious?

I love how the pro-illegals try to justify their support of illegal aliens by attacking Christians for not doing so when illegal aliens break many Ten Commandments and hurt American citizens.


----------



## guno

Luddly Neddite said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
Click to expand...


----------



## guno

Oldglory1 said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> "If you are helping them enter the country illegally they are committing a crime and you are helping them do it." (Katz)
> 
> We give water to the thirsty, food to the hungry, and clothing to the naked. It is not only not a crime to do that. It is what Jesus taught Christian's to do. I am not a Christian, but, I have met very few of them in my life, anyway. Apparently, there are none at your house, either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As we often see here, some christians rant and preach but don't actually practice what they rant and preach.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no Christian teaching that supports aiding and abetting criminals.  Are you serious?
> 
> I love how the pro-illegals try to justify their support of illegal aliens by attacking Christians for not doing so when illegal aliens break many Ten Commandments and hurt American citizens.
Click to expand...





*Leviticus 19:33-34 *
“When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.


*Matthew 25:35 *
For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,


*Exodus 22:21 *
“You shall not wrong a sojourner or oppress him, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt.


*Malachi 3:5 *
“Then I will draw near to you for judgment. I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, against the adulterers, against those who swear falsely, against those who oppress the hired worker in his wages, the widow and the fatherless, against those who thrust aside the sojourner, and do not fear me, says the Lord of hosts.


*Deuteronomy 27:19 *
“‘Cursed be anyone who perverts the justice due to the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow.’ And all the people shall say, ‘Amen.’


*Zechariah 7:9-10 *
“Thus says the Lord of hosts, Render true judgments, show kindness and mercy to one another, do not oppress the widow, the fatherless, the sojourner, or the poor, and let none of you devise evil against another in your heart.”


*Hebrews 13:2 *
Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.


*Jeremiah 7:5-7 *
“For if you truly amend your ways and your deeds, if you truly execute justice one with another, if you do not oppress the sojourner, the fatherless, or the widow, or shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not go after other gods to your own harm, then I will let you dwell in this place, in the land that I gave of old to your fathers forever.


*Ezekiel 47:22 *
You shall allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the sojourners who reside among you and have had children among you. They shall be to you as native-born children of Israel. With you they shall be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel.


----------



## guno

Rikurzhen said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've often wondered why the USA hasn't developed crop picking machines if Americans won't do the crop picking for piddling wages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have but it's cheaper for farmers to reap the benefits of cheap labor and shove all the social costs of supporting the peasants onto taxpayers. When citizens put their foot down, or more accurately use their foot to kick the asses of the infiltrators out of the country, then innovation seems to fix the problems:
> 
> Economist Philip Martin of the University of California likes to tell a story about the state's tomato industry. In the early 1960s, growers relied on seasonal Mexican laborers, brought in under the government's "bracero" program. The Mexicans picked the tomatoes that were then processed into ketchup and other products. In 1964 Congress killed the program despite growers' warnings that its abolition would doom their industry. What happened? *Well, plant scientists developed oblong tomatoes that could be harvested by machine. Since then, California's tomato output has risen fivefold.*​
Click to expand...



Mexico’s urban poor fared no better. Although a flood of cheap U.S. grain was supposed to make consumer prices fall, they in fact rose. With the end of the Conasupo stores and price controls, the price of tortillas more than doubled in the years following NAFTA’s adoption. One company, Grupo Maseca, monopolized tortilla production, while Wal-Mart became Mexico’s largest retailer.

Under Mexico’s former national content laws, foreign automakers like Ford, Chrysler, General Motors, and Volkswagen were required to buy some of their components from Mexican producers. NAFTA, however, prohibited laws requiring foreign producers to use a certain percentage of local content in assembled products. Without this restraint, the auto giants began to supply their assembly lines with parts from their own subsidiaries, often manufactured in other countries. Mexican auto parts workers lost their jobs by the thousands.


Displaced People NAFTA s Most Important Product North American Congress on Latin America


----------



## guno

Stephanie said:


> Luds lives in some in other world the rest of us don't reside in.
> 
> good grief. he's see's himself as some saint now




Oh the Irony coming from trailer park trash who admits being on the government dole an taking government welfare chesse


----------



## Oldglory1

guno said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> "If you are helping them enter the country illegally they are committing a crime and you are helping them do it." (Katz)
> 
> We give water to the thirsty, food to the hungry, and clothing to the naked. It is not only not a crime to do that. It is what Jesus taught Christian's to do. I am not a Christian, but, I have met very few of them in my life, anyway. Apparently, there are none at your house, either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As we often see here, some christians rant and preach but don't actually practice what they rant and preach.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no Christian teaching that supports aiding and abetting criminals.  Are you serious?
> 
> I love how the pro-illegals try to justify their support of illegal aliens by attacking Christians for not doing so when illegal aliens break many Ten Commandments and hurt American citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Leviticus 19:33-34 *
> “When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.
> 
> 
> *Matthew 25:35 *
> For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
> 
> 
> *Exodus 22:21 *
> “You shall not wrong a sojourner or oppress him, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt.
> 
> 
> *Malachi 3:5 *
> “Then I will draw near to you for judgment. I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, against the adulterers, against those who swear falsely, against those who oppress the hired worker in his wages, the widow and the fatherless, against those who thrust aside the sojourner, and do not fear me, says the Lord of hosts.
> 
> 
> *Deuteronomy 27:19 *
> “‘Cursed be anyone who perverts the justice due to the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow.’ And all the people shall say, ‘Amen.’
> 
> 
> *Zechariah 7:9-10 *
> “Thus says the Lord of hosts, Render true judgments, show kindness and mercy to one another, do not oppress the widow, the fatherless, the sojourner, or the poor, and let none of you devise evil against another in your heart.”
> 
> 
> *Hebrews 13:2 *
> Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
> 
> 
> *Jeremiah 7:5-7 *
> “For if you truly amend your ways and your deeds, if you truly execute justice one with another, if you do not oppress the sojourner, the fatherless, or the widow, or shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not go after other gods to your own harm, then I will let you dwell in this place, in the land that I gave of old to your fathers forever.
> 
> 
> *Ezekiel 47:22 *
> You shall allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the sojourners who reside among you and have had children among you. They shall be to you as native-born children of Israel. With you they shall be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel.
Click to expand...


Doesn't mean that hiding lawbreakers from the law was ok or that God wasn't an advocate for justice.   Doesn't mean that lawbreaking foreigners would have had a right to remain in a country he has no right to be in.  Funny, how you don't quote anything that has to do with those things.  Did God also advocate for those who harm others to get away with it?   Get off your sanctimonious high horse and include all the teachings of the Bible not just the parts you like and are tying to put a spin on.


----------



## GHook93

Luddly Neddite said:


> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel



No what pisses me off is people like them and you that believe they are entitled to break our laws because they "might" have a better life here. 

Fine you want to come here I don't blame them, but then do it legally. Once they break our laws we should ALL lose sympathy for them.

Don't try to change our country, laws, culture or language. If you don't like it then go the fuck home and take some bloodsucking liberals with you.


----------



## GHook93

Luddly Neddite said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
Click to expand...


I call bullshit! 

A black liberal like you supports the liberal cause because of the freebies and entitlements that living at the bottom is provided to you for your vote. 

I highly doubt you are in any position to help anyone. Which is in stark contrast to the hardworking and highly charitable evangelicals you loathe!


----------



## Windship

guno said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> "If you are helping them enter the country illegally they are committing a crime and you are helping them do it." (Katz)
> 
> We give water to the thirsty, food to the hungry, and clothing to the naked. It is not only not a crime to do that. It is what Jesus taught Christian's to do. I am not a Christian, but, I have met very few of them in my life, anyway. Apparently, there are none at your house, either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As we often see here, some christians rant and preach but don't actually practice what they rant and preach.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no Christian teaching that supports aiding and abetting criminals.  Are you serious?
> 
> I love how the pro-illegals try to justify their support of illegal aliens by attacking Christians for not doing so when illegal aliens break many Ten Commandments and hurt American citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Leviticus 19:33-34 *
> “When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.
> 
> 
> *Matthew 25:35 *
> For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
> 
> 
> *Exodus 22:21 *
> “You shall not wrong a sojourner or oppress him, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt.
> 
> 
> *Malachi 3:5 *
> “Then I will draw near to you for judgment. I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, against the adulterers, against those who swear falsely, against those who oppress the hired worker in his wages, the widow and the fatherless, against those who thrust aside the sojourner, and do not fear me, says the Lord of hosts.
> 
> 
> *Deuteronomy 27:19 *
> “‘Cursed be anyone who perverts the justice due to the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow.’ And all the people shall say, ‘Amen.’
> 
> 
> *Zechariah 7:9-10 *
> “Thus says the Lord of hosts, Render true judgments, show kindness and mercy to one another, do not oppress the widow, the fatherless, the sojourner, or the poor, and let none of you devise evil against another in your heart.”
> 
> 
> *Hebrews 13:2 *
> Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
> 
> 
> *Jeremiah 7:5-7 *
> “For if you truly amend your ways and your deeds, if you truly execute justice one with another, if you do not oppress the sojourner, the fatherless, or the widow, or shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not go after other gods to your own harm, then I will let you dwell in this place, in the land that I gave of old to your fathers forever.
> 
> 
> *Ezekiel 47:22 *
> You shall allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the sojourners who reside among you and have had children among you. They shall be to you as native-born children of Israel. With you they shall be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel.
Click to expand...

 
The biblelso says to "abide by the laws setp on earth by man".
You must have forgotten that one.


----------



## Windship

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.


----------



## Windship

Titus 3:1 
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,


----------



## Windship

GHook93 said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I call bullshit!
> 
> A black liberal like you supports the liberal cause because of the freebies and entitlements that living at the bottom is provided to you for your vote.
> 
> I highly doubt you are in any position to help anyone. Which is in stark contrast to the hardworking and highly charitable evangelicals you loathe!
Click to expand...

 
LOL...you mean all those evangelicals that get rich off of preaching god?


----------



## Windship

You luddly, are a criminal and a traitor.


----------



## Windship

You make me laugh...you quote the bible, mostly the OLD testament, then you dump on the poor.
Jeses would be proud of you if he were pro hypocrite.


----------



## MaryL

I have helped an illegal alien woman being pursued by her Mexican abuser, I got no thanks for that. Mexican men are abusers, they rape and intimidate,  I have seen it here on this board. I will fight you, though. Call me a bitch...You supporters of illegals and their brand of hate. I will fight you.


----------



## dblack

MaryL said:


> I have helped an illegal alien woman being pursued by her Mexican abuser, I got no thanks for that. Mexican men are abusers, they rape and intimidate,  I have seen it here on this board. I will fight you, though. Call me a bitch...You supporters of illegals and their brand of hate. I will fight you.


Alllllrighty then!


----------



## guno

Luddly Neddite said:


> I can still see some of those faces, dirty and exhausted and really, just about done in. Perched on the edge of the couch or drinking boiling hot water from the hose in the front yard.
> 
> I would always try to have chocolate and real orange juice on hand. I'd make them cheese sandwiches and fill up their water jugs with ice and water. I'd also keep small bottles of water frozen so they would thaw as they walked, giving them cold water.
> 
> People have no idea how many Border Patrol there are around Tucson. I can remember seeing the Border Patrol trucks go by and once, one followed me on the dirt road when I had four illegals in the car with me. If he had stopped me, I would have ended up in jail.
> 
> Several times, I drove them into town to the bus stop. And 2-3 times, drove them all the way to Eloy, a farming community north of Tucson, where they had jobs waiting in the fields.
> 
> They always wanted to pay for the help and would have money in plastic baggies in their shoe.
> 
> Once, driving into Tucson on Ajo, I picked up a family. It was one of the extremely hot summers in the 80s and they just about couldn't walk another step. I stopped at a Circle K and got hot dogs, candy bars and water for each of them. They recognized the Border Patrol HQ on Ajo just inside Tucson. They had a map with a destination on the Tohono O'odom reservation south of Tucson, so I took them there. It was a tiny adobe house and people poured out to welcome their family members.
> 
> The saddest was when the sheriff was holding three in my front yard, waiting for Border Patrol to come get them. They were sitting on the ground, under the tree, totally exhausted, very near complete collapse. The deputy misunderstood, saying he was sorry but they'd get them out of my yard as soon as they could. I made flavored coffee for them, hot and sugary and one of them kissed my hand.
> 
> I would always tell them, Via con Dios when we parted.
> 
> Some of them walk for weeks and weeks. Most of the women are raped - I've read that its more than 80%
> 
> Sometime ago, there was an article in the AZ Daily Star about what happens to the body when you die of dehydration. It must be a real horror - very painful. The illegals themselves would find bodies of others who didn't make it.
> 
> How desperate must someone be to leave everything they know and love to risk it all?


----------



## guno

Windship said:


> I wish I knew where thes fucking bastards like luddly and this guy lived




sounds like you have christer revenge fantasy's. Not good threatening people thumper


----------



## MaryL

dblack said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have helped an illegal alien woman being pursued by her Mexican abuser, I got no thanks for that. Mexican men are abusers, they rape and intimidate,  I have seen it here on this board. I will fight you, though. Call me a bitch...You supporters of illegals and their brand of hate. I will fight you.
> 
> 
> 
> Alllllrighty then!
Click to expand...

Alrighty then? I helped this woman hide from her MEXICAN man that was trying to kill her. Mexicans are so abusive and we pretend its a cultural thing. I notice Hispanics are abusive, it's a cultural thing? No? Don't call me bitch. Mexicans like abuse. It's what they do. To our immigration laws and anything else, but they don't like being called out for it though, and ya'al know it. Racism, xenophobia..,like that.


----------



## MaryL

Mexican men were always trying to exploit the situation. And  women were almost always victims. Muy mochachos. I hate these bastards.


----------



## Oldglory1

guno said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can still see some of those faces, dirty and exhausted and really, just about done in. Perched on the edge of the couch or drinking boiling hot water from the hose in the front yard.
> 
> I would always try to have chocolate and real orange juice on hand. I'd make them cheese sandwiches and fill up their water jugs with ice and water. I'd also keep small bottles of water frozen so they would thaw as they walked, giving them cold water.
> 
> People have no idea how many Border Patrol there are around Tucson. I can remember seeing the Border Patrol trucks go by and once, one followed me on the dirt road when I had four illegals in the car with me. If he had stopped me, I would have ended up in jail.
> 
> Several times, I drove them into town to the bus stop. And 2-3 times, drove them all the way to Eloy, a farming community north of Tucson, where they had jobs waiting in the fields.
> 
> They always wanted to pay for the help and would have money in plastic baggies in their shoe.
> 
> Once, driving into Tucson on Ajo, I picked up a family. It was one of the extremely hot summers in the 80s and they just about couldn't walk another step. I stopped at a Circle K and got hot dogs, candy bars and water for each of them. They recognized the Border Patrol HQ on Ajo just inside Tucson. They had a map with a destination on the Tohono O'odom reservation south of Tucson, so I took them there. It was a tiny adobe house and people poured out to welcome their family members.
> 
> The saddest was when the sheriff was holding three in my front yard, waiting for Border Patrol to come get them. They were sitting on the ground, under the tree, totally exhausted, very near complete collapse. The deputy misunderstood, saying he was sorry but they'd get them out of my yard as soon as they could. I made flavored coffee for them, hot and sugary and one of them kissed my hand.
> 
> I would always tell them, Via con Dios when we parted.
> 
> Some of them walk for weeks and weeks. Most of the women are raped - I've read that its more than 80%
> 
> Sometime ago, there was an article in the AZ Daily Star about what happens to the body when you die of dehydration. It must be a real horror - very painful. The illegals themselves would find bodies of others who didn't make it.
> 
> How desperate must someone be to leave everything they know and love to risk it all?
Click to expand...


Cry me a river.   Where is the compassion for American families who have lost their jobs to illegal aliens and can't feed their own kids?  Only 3% of illegal aliens are picking crops.  So most crops aren't being picked by them.  Their greedy employers pass their social costs on to we the taxpayer.   Many Americans have had their ID's stolen and their credit ruined due to an illegal alien.    Many Americans have  been victims of other crimes by illegal aliens.   They have no respect for our borders nor our laws.  How anyone can defend them is beyond me.


----------



## Vandalshandle

I work with people occasionally who distribute food, water, clothing, and medical care to illegals crossing the desert. I do it, because it is the right thing to do. However, I must admit that I feel like it is a bonus that I am condemned by the Right for doing so.

As for Mexicans in general, I find them to be humble, polite, grateful, and hard working. I also routinely deal with them when I buy prescriptions and have dental work done in Nogales.


----------



## guno

Oldglory1 said:


> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can still see some of those faces, dirty and exhausted and really, just about done in. Perched on the edge of the couch or drinking boiling hot water from the hose in the front yard.
> 
> I would always try to have chocolate and real orange juice on hand. I'd make them cheese sandwiches and fill up their water jugs with ice and water. I'd also keep small bottles of water frozen so they would thaw as they walked, giving them cold water.
> 
> People have no idea how many Border Patrol there are around Tucson. I can remember seeing the Border Patrol trucks go by and once, one followed me on the dirt road when I had four illegals in the car with me. If he had stopped me, I would have ended up in jail.
> 
> Several times, I drove them into town to the bus stop. And 2-3 times, drove them all the way to Eloy, a farming community north of Tucson, where they had jobs waiting in the fields.
> 
> They always wanted to pay for the help and would have money in plastic baggies in their shoe.
> 
> Once, driving into Tucson on Ajo, I picked up a family. It was one of the extremely hot summers in the 80s and they just about couldn't walk another step. I stopped at a Circle K and got hot dogs, candy bars and water for each of them. They recognized the Border Patrol HQ on Ajo just inside Tucson. They had a map with a destination on the Tohono O'odom reservation south of Tucson, so I took them there. It was a tiny adobe house and people poured out to welcome their family members.
> 
> The saddest was when the sheriff was holding three in my front yard, waiting for Border Patrol to come get them. They were sitting on the ground, under the tree, totally exhausted, very near complete collapse. The deputy misunderstood, saying he was sorry but they'd get them out of my yard as soon as they could. I made flavored coffee for them, hot and sugary and one of them kissed my hand.
> 
> I would always tell them, Via con Dios when we parted.
> 
> Some of them walk for weeks and weeks. Most of the women are raped - I've read that its more than 80%
> 
> Sometime ago, there was an article in the AZ Daily Star about what happens to the body when you die of dehydration. It must be a real horror - very painful. The illegals themselves would find bodies of others who didn't make it.
> 
> How desperate must someone be to leave everything they know and love to risk it all?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cry me a river.   Where is the compassion for American families who have lost their jobs to illegal aliens and can't feed their own kids?  Only 3% of illegal aliens are picking crops.  So most crops aren't being picked by them.  Their greedy employers pass their social costs on to we the taxpayer.   Many Americans have had their ID's stolen and their credit ruined due to an illegal alien.    Many Americans have  been victims of other crimes by illegal aliens.   They have no respect for our borders nor our laws.  How anyone can defend them is beyond me.
Click to expand...



yes because we all know the mexicans coming across the border have the power to move our factory's off  shore thus decimating the American worker they also have the power to tell people to hire them , right??

Now for some facts 

Sonali Kolhatkar After 20 Years NAFTA Leaves Mexico 8217 s Economy in Ruins - Sonali Kolhatkar -Truthdig

desperate  people do desperate things


----------



## guno

Oldglory1 said:


> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can still see some of those faces, dirty and exhausted and really, just about done in. Perched on the edge of the couch or drinking boiling hot water from the hose in the front yard.
> 
> I would always try to have chocolate and real orange juice on hand. I'd make them cheese sandwiches and fill up their water jugs with ice and water. I'd also keep small bottles of water frozen so they would thaw as they walked, giving them cold water.
> 
> People have no idea how many Border Patrol there are around Tucson. I can remember seeing the Border Patrol trucks go by and once, one followed me on the dirt road when I had four illegals in the car with me. If he had stopped me, I would have ended up in jail.
> 
> Several times, I drove them into town to the bus stop. And 2-3 times, drove them all the way to Eloy, a farming community north of Tucson, where they had jobs waiting in the fields.
> 
> They always wanted to pay for the help and would have money in plastic baggies in their shoe.
> 
> Once, driving into Tucson on Ajo, I picked up a family. It was one of the extremely hot summers in the 80s and they just about couldn't walk another step. I stopped at a Circle K and got hot dogs, candy bars and water for each of them. They recognized the Border Patrol HQ on Ajo just inside Tucson. They had a map with a destination on the Tohono O'odom reservation south of Tucson, so I took them there. It was a tiny adobe house and people poured out to welcome their family members.
> 
> The saddest was when the sheriff was holding three in my front yard, waiting for Border Patrol to come get them. They were sitting on the ground, under the tree, totally exhausted, very near complete collapse. The deputy misunderstood, saying he was sorry but they'd get them out of my yard as soon as they could. I made flavored coffee for them, hot and sugary and one of them kissed my hand.
> 
> I would always tell them, Via con Dios when we parted.
> 
> Some of them walk for weeks and weeks. Most of the women are raped - I've read that its more than 80%
> 
> Sometime ago, there was an article in the AZ Daily Star about what happens to the body when you die of dehydration. It must be a real horror - very painful. The illegals themselves would find bodies of others who didn't make it.
> 
> How desperate must someone be to leave everything they know and love to risk it all?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cry me a river.   Where is the compassion for American families who have lost their jobs to illegal aliens and can't feed their own kids?  Only 3% of illegal aliens are picking crops.  So most crops aren't being picked by them.  Their greedy employers pass their social costs on to we the taxpayer.   Many Americans have had their ID's stolen and their credit ruined due to an illegal alien.    Many Americans have  been victims of other crimes by illegal aliens.   They have no respect for our borders nor our laws.  How anyone can defend them is beyond me.
Click to expand...



You must live a sheltered life not knowing any Mexicans or people of color, ignorance is fear . Crime? most undocumented people do not want to call attention to themselves and don't want any interaction with the authorities in this country. The are just ring to make money so their families can survive, would you do any less for yours?

Undocumented workers grim reality speak out on abuse and risk deportation US news theguardian.com


----------



## guno

guno said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can still see some of those faces, dirty and exhausted and really, just about done in. Perched on the edge of the couch or drinking boiling hot water from the hose in the front yard.
> 
> I would always try to have chocolate and real orange juice on hand. I'd make them cheese sandwiches and fill up their water jugs with ice and water. I'd also keep small bottles of water frozen so they would thaw as they walked, giving them cold water.
> 
> People have no idea how many Border Patrol there are around Tucson. I can remember seeing the Border Patrol trucks go by and once, one followed me on the dirt road when I had four illegals in the car with me. If he had stopped me, I would have ended up in jail.
> 
> Several times, I drove them into town to the bus stop. And 2-3 times, drove them all the way to Eloy, a farming community north of Tucson, where they had jobs waiting in the fields.
> 
> They always wanted to pay for the help and would have money in plastic baggies in their shoe.
> 
> Once, driving into Tucson on Ajo, I picked up a family. It was one of the extremely hot summers in the 80s and they just about couldn't walk another step. I stopped at a Circle K and got hot dogs, candy bars and water for each of them. They recognized the Border Patrol HQ on Ajo just inside Tucson. They had a map with a destination on the Tohono O'odom reservation south of Tucson, so I took them there. It was a tiny adobe house and people poured out to welcome their family members.
> 
> The saddest was when the sheriff was holding three in my front yard, waiting for Border Patrol to come get them. They were sitting on the ground, under the tree, totally exhausted, very near complete collapse. The deputy misunderstood, saying he was sorry but they'd get them out of my yard as soon as they could. I made flavored coffee for them, hot and sugary and one of them kissed my hand.
> 
> I would always tell them, Via con Dios when we parted.
> 
> Some of them walk for weeks and weeks. Most of the women are raped - I've read that its more than 80%
> 
> Sometime ago, there was an article in the AZ Daily Star about what happens to the body when you die of dehydration. It must be a real horror - very painful. The illegals themselves would find bodies of others who didn't make it.
> 
> How desperate must someone be to leave everything they know and love to risk it all?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cry me a river.   Where is the compassion for American families who have lost their jobs to illegal aliens and can't feed their own kids?  Only 3% of illegal aliens are picking crops.  So most crops aren't being picked by them.  Their greedy employers pass their social costs on to we the taxpayer.   Many Americans have had their ID's stolen and their credit ruined due to an illegal alien.    Many Americans have  been victims of other crimes by illegal aliens.   They have no respect for our borders nor our laws.  How anyone can defend them is beyond me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You must live a sheltered life not knowing any Mexicans or people of color, ignorance is fear . Crime? most undocumented people do not want to call attention to themselves and don't want any interaction with the authorities in this country. The are just ring to make money so their families can survive, would you do any less for yours?
> 
> Undocumented workers grim reality speak out on abuse and risk deportation US news theguardian.com
Click to expand...




"In Austin, Texas, Antonio Campos Lozano and five of his fellow construction workers had gone unpaid by their boss. They had worked night shifts doing building work in a local mall and then often worked through the day elsewhere around the city for the same man.

"Sometimes you don't go home. You just get ready for the next shift. We work for our families. That's the main reason. We have bills to pay and families to support," he said.

But then their boss refused to pay them, and the crew reported the local businessman to a workers' rights group which took legal action.

Astonishingly, Lozano then started getting text messages from the man threatening deportation to the entire crew. "I am going to do whatever it takes to have them sent back to Mexico," read one message sent to Lozano and seen by the Guardian. Lozano is in the US legally, but the employer was explicit about the rest of the crew who were undocumented. "Your [sic] the only one that won't get sent back. Tell that to them," another text stated."


----------



## Oldglory1

Vandalshandle said:


> I work with people occasionally who distribute food, water, clothing, and medical care to illegals crossing the desert. I do it, because it is the right thing to do. However, I must admit that I feel like it is a bonus that I am condemned by the Right for doing so.
> 
> As for Mexicans in general, I find them to be humble, polite, grateful, and hard working. I also routinely deal with them when I buy prescriptions and have dental work done in Nogales.



Nothing wrong with giving humanitarian aid but then they should be sent back over the border to their homeland.   No, Mexicans aren't any different than any other group.   They have their bad ones in the same percentages as everyone else.  They are good at playing the humble card to gain sympathy.  Hard working or not they have no right to come here and steal a job from an American.  Americans work hard also.


----------



## Oldglory1

guno said:


> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can still see some of those faces, dirty and exhausted and really, just about done in. Perched on the edge of the couch or drinking boiling hot water from the hose in the front yard.
> 
> I would always try to have chocolate and real orange juice on hand. I'd make them cheese sandwiches and fill up their water jugs with ice and water. I'd also keep small bottles of water frozen so they would thaw as they walked, giving them cold water.
> 
> People have no idea how many Border Patrol there are around Tucson. I can remember seeing the Border Patrol trucks go by and once, one followed me on the dirt road when I had four illegals in the car with me. If he had stopped me, I would have ended up in jail.
> 
> Several times, I drove them into town to the bus stop. And 2-3 times, drove them all the way to Eloy, a farming community north of Tucson, where they had jobs waiting in the fields.
> 
> They always wanted to pay for the help and would have money in plastic baggies in their shoe.
> 
> Once, driving into Tucson on Ajo, I picked up a family. It was one of the extremely hot summers in the 80s and they just about couldn't walk another step. I stopped at a Circle K and got hot dogs, candy bars and water for each of them. They recognized the Border Patrol HQ on Ajo just inside Tucson. They had a map with a destination on the Tohono O'odom reservation south of Tucson, so I took them there. It was a tiny adobe house and people poured out to welcome their family members.
> 
> The saddest was when the sheriff was holding three in my front yard, waiting for Border Patrol to come get them. They were sitting on the ground, under the tree, totally exhausted, very near complete collapse. The deputy misunderstood, saying he was sorry but they'd get them out of my yard as soon as they could. I made flavored coffee for them, hot and sugary and one of them kissed my hand.
> 
> I would always tell them, Via con Dios when we parted.
> 
> Some of them walk for weeks and weeks. Most of the women are raped - I've read that its more than 80%
> 
> Sometime ago, there was an article in the AZ Daily Star about what happens to the body when you die of dehydration. It must be a real horror - very painful. The illegals themselves would find bodies of others who didn't make it.
> 
> How desperate must someone be to leave everything they know and love to risk it all?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cry me a river.   Where is the compassion for American families who have lost their jobs to illegal aliens and can't feed their own kids?  Only 3% of illegal aliens are picking crops.  So most crops aren't being picked by them.  Their greedy employers pass their social costs on to we the taxpayer.   Many Americans have had their ID's stolen and their credit ruined due to an illegal alien.    Many Americans have  been victims of other crimes by illegal aliens.   They have no respect for our borders nor our laws.  How anyone can defend them is beyond me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You must live a sheltered life not knowing any Mexicans or people of color, ignorance is fear . Crime? most undocumented people do not want to call attention to themselves and don't want any interaction with the authorities in this country. The are just ring to make money so their families can survive, would you do any less for yours?
> 
> Undocumented workers grim reality speak out on abuse and risk deportation US news theguardian.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "In Austin, Texas, Antonio Campos Lozano and five of his fellow construction workers had gone unpaid by their boss. They had worked night shifts doing building work in a local mall and then often worked through the day elsewhere around the city for the same man.
> 
> "Sometimes you don't go home. You just get ready for the next shift. We work for our families. That's the main reason. We have bills to pay and families to support," he said.
> 
> But then their boss refused to pay them, and the crew reported the local businessman to a workers' rights group which took legal action.
> 
> Astonishingly, Lozano then started getting text messages from the man threatening deportation to the entire crew. "I am going to do whatever it takes to have them sent back to Mexico," read one message sent to Lozano and seen by the Guardian. Lozano is in the US legally, but the employer was explicit about the rest of the crew who were undocumented. "Your [sic] the only one that won't get sent back. Tell that to them," another text stated."
Click to expand...


When you break laws expect to have bad things happen to you. Americans who have lost their jobs to illegal aliens (not undocumented) can't feed their families either.   Are their families less important than an illegal alien lawbreakers?


----------



## Oldglory1

guno said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can still see some of those faces, dirty and exhausted and really, just about done in. Perched on the edge of the couch or drinking boiling hot water from the hose in the front yard.
> 
> I would always try to have chocolate and real orange juice on hand. I'd make them cheese sandwiches and fill up their water jugs with ice and water. I'd also keep small bottles of water frozen so they would thaw as they walked, giving them cold water.
> 
> People have no idea how many Border Patrol there are around Tucson. I can remember seeing the Border Patrol trucks go by and once, one followed me on the dirt road when I had four illegals in the car with me. If he had stopped me, I would have ended up in jail.
> 
> Several times, I drove them into town to the bus stop. And 2-3 times, drove them all the way to Eloy, a farming community north of Tucson, where they had jobs waiting in the fields.
> 
> They always wanted to pay for the help and would have money in plastic baggies in their shoe.
> 
> Once, driving into Tucson on Ajo, I picked up a family. It was one of the extremely hot summers in the 80s and they just about couldn't walk another step. I stopped at a Circle K and got hot dogs, candy bars and water for each of them. They recognized the Border Patrol HQ on Ajo just inside Tucson. They had a map with a destination on the Tohono O'odom reservation south of Tucson, so I took them there. It was a tiny adobe house and people poured out to welcome their family members.
> 
> The saddest was when the sheriff was holding three in my front yard, waiting for Border Patrol to come get them. They were sitting on the ground, under the tree, totally exhausted, very near complete collapse. The deputy misunderstood, saying he was sorry but they'd get them out of my yard as soon as they could. I made flavored coffee for them, hot and sugary and one of them kissed my hand.
> 
> I would always tell them, Via con Dios when we parted.
> 
> Some of them walk for weeks and weeks. Most of the women are raped - I've read that its more than 80%
> 
> Sometime ago, there was an article in the AZ Daily Star about what happens to the body when you die of dehydration. It must be a real horror - very painful. The illegals themselves would find bodies of others who didn't make it.
> 
> How desperate must someone be to leave everything they know and love to risk it all?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cry me a river.   Where is the compassion for American families who have lost their jobs to illegal aliens and can't feed their own kids?  Only 3% of illegal aliens are picking crops.  So most crops aren't being picked by them.  Their greedy employers pass their social costs on to we the taxpayer.   Many Americans have had their ID's stolen and their credit ruined due to an illegal alien.    Many Americans have  been victims of other crimes by illegal aliens.   They have no respect for our borders nor our laws.  How anyone can defend them is beyond me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You must live a sheltered life not knowing any Mexicans or people of color, ignorance is fear . Crime? most undocumented people do not want to call attention to themselves and don't want any interaction with the authorities in this country. The are just ring to make money so their families can survive, would you do any less for yours?
> 
> Undocumented workers grim reality speak out on abuse and risk deportation US news theguardian.com
Click to expand...


It's not a crime to steal an American's ID or evade income taxes? They aren't undocumented they are illegal aliens.   I wouldn't violate another country's immigration laws I would seek changes in my own country.   Most here illegally aren't starving either.   It is just that they can make more money here at the expense of taking a job from an American.  Do you care?   Apparently not.   Your compassion is so misplaced that's its pathetic.


----------



## Oldglory1

guno said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can still see some of those faces, dirty and exhausted and really, just about done in. Perched on the edge of the couch or drinking boiling hot water from the hose in the front yard.
> 
> I would always try to have chocolate and real orange juice on hand. I'd make them cheese sandwiches and fill up their water jugs with ice and water. I'd also keep small bottles of water frozen so they would thaw as they walked, giving them cold water.
> 
> People have no idea how many Border Patrol there are around Tucson. I can remember seeing the Border Patrol trucks go by and once, one followed me on the dirt road when I had four illegals in the car with me. If he had stopped me, I would have ended up in jail.
> 
> Several times, I drove them into town to the bus stop. And 2-3 times, drove them all the way to Eloy, a farming community north of Tucson, where they had jobs waiting in the fields.
> 
> They always wanted to pay for the help and would have money in plastic baggies in their shoe.
> 
> Once, driving into Tucson on Ajo, I picked up a family. It was one of the extremely hot summers in the 80s and they just about couldn't walk another step. I stopped at a Circle K and got hot dogs, candy bars and water for each of them. They recognized the Border Patrol HQ on Ajo just inside Tucson. They had a map with a destination on the Tohono O'odom reservation south of Tucson, so I took them there. It was a tiny adobe house and people poured out to welcome their family members.
> 
> The saddest was when the sheriff was holding three in my front yard, waiting for Border Patrol to come get them. They were sitting on the ground, under the tree, totally exhausted, very near complete collapse. The deputy misunderstood, saying he was sorry but they'd get them out of my yard as soon as they could. I made flavored coffee for them, hot and sugary and one of them kissed my hand.
> 
> I would always tell them, Via con Dios when we parted.
> 
> Some of them walk for weeks and weeks. Most of the women are raped - I've read that its more than 80%
> 
> Sometime ago, there was an article in the AZ Daily Star about what happens to the body when you die of dehydration. It must be a real horror - very painful. The illegals themselves would find bodies of others who didn't make it.
> 
> How desperate must someone be to leave everything they know and love to risk it all?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cry me a river.   Where is the compassion for American families who have lost their jobs to illegal aliens and can't feed their own kids?  Only 3% of illegal aliens are picking crops.  So most crops aren't being picked by them.  Their greedy employers pass their social costs on to we the taxpayer.   Many Americans have had their ID's stolen and their credit ruined due to an illegal alien.    Many Americans have  been victims of other crimes by illegal aliens.   They have no respect for our borders nor our laws.  How anyone can defend them is beyond me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> yes because we all know the mexicans coming across the border have the power to move our factory's off  shore thus decimating the American worker they also have the power to tell people to hire them , right??
> 
> Now for some facts
> 
> Sonali Kolhatkar After 20 Years NAFTA Leaves Mexico 8217 s Economy in Ruins - Sonali Kolhatkar -Truthdig
> 
> desperate  people do desperate things
Click to expand...


Both outsourcing and illegal immigration hurt American job opportunities.   Not that you care.   Illegals have no right to accept jobs offered to them by greedy, unscrupulous employers.   These people aren't desperate.   Get a grip!   They simply want what we have and they don't give a damn who they have to hurt to get it.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

MaryL said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have helped an illegal alien woman being pursued by her Mexican abuser, I got no thanks for that. Mexican men are abusers, they rape and intimidate,  I have seen it here on this board. I will fight you, though. Call me a bitch...You supporters of illegals and their brand of hate. I will fight you.
> 
> 
> 
> Alllllrighty then!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Alrighty then? I helped this woman hide from her MEXICAN man that was trying to kill her. Mexicans are so abusive and we pretend its a cultural thing. I notice Hispanics are abusive, it's a cultural thing? No? Don't call me bitch. Mexicans like abuse. It's what they do. To our immigration laws and anything else, but they don't like being called out for it though, and ya'al know it. Racism, xenophobia..,like that.
Click to expand...


Not even close to the truth. 

Not even close.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Oldglory1 said:


> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can still see some of those faces, dirty and exhausted and really, just about done in. Perched on the edge of the couch or drinking boiling hot water from the hose in the front yard.
> 
> I would always try to have chocolate and real orange juice on hand. I'd make them cheese sandwiches and fill up their water jugs with ice and water. I'd also keep small bottles of water frozen so they would thaw as they walked, giving them cold water.
> 
> People have no idea how many Border Patrol there are around Tucson. I can remember seeing the Border Patrol trucks go by and once, one followed me on the dirt road when I had four illegals in the car with me. If he had stopped me, I would have ended up in jail.
> 
> Several times, I drove them into town to the bus stop. And 2-3 times, drove them all the way to Eloy, a farming community north of Tucson, where they had jobs waiting in the fields.
> 
> They always wanted to pay for the help and would have money in plastic baggies in their shoe.
> 
> Once, driving into Tucson on Ajo, I picked up a family. It was one of the extremely hot summers in the 80s and they just about couldn't walk another step. I stopped at a Circle K and got hot dogs, candy bars and water for each of them. They recognized the Border Patrol HQ on Ajo just inside Tucson. They had a map with a destination on the Tohono O'odom reservation south of Tucson, so I took them there. It was a tiny adobe house and people poured out to welcome their family members.
> 
> The saddest was when the sheriff was holding three in my front yard, waiting for Border Patrol to come get them. They were sitting on the ground, under the tree, totally exhausted, very near complete collapse. The deputy misunderstood, saying he was sorry but they'd get them out of my yard as soon as they could. I made flavored coffee for them, hot and sugary and one of them kissed my hand.
> 
> I would always tell them, Via con Dios when we parted.
> 
> Some of them walk for weeks and weeks. Most of the women are raped - I've read that its more than 80%
> 
> Sometime ago, there was an article in the AZ Daily Star about what happens to the body when you die of dehydration. It must be a real horror - very painful. The illegals themselves would find bodies of others who didn't make it.
> 
> How desperate must someone be to leave everything they know and love to risk it all?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cry me a river.   Where is the compassion for American families who have lost their jobs to illegal aliens and can't feed their own kids?  Only 3% of illegal aliens are picking crops.  So most crops aren't being picked by them.  Their greedy employers pass their social costs on to we the taxpayer.   Many Americans have had their ID's stolen and their credit ruined due to an illegal alien.    Many Americans have  been victims of other crimes by illegal aliens.   They have no respect for our borders nor our laws.  How anyone can defend them is beyond me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You must live a sheltered life not knowing any Mexicans or people of color, ignorance is fear . Crime? most undocumented people do not want to call attention to themselves and don't want any interaction with the authorities in this country. The are just ring to make money so their families can survive, would you do any less for yours?
> 
> Undocumented workers grim reality speak out on abuse and risk deportation US news theguardian.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "In Austin, Texas, Antonio Campos Lozano and five of his fellow construction workers had gone unpaid by their boss. They had worked night shifts doing building work in a local mall and then often worked through the day elsewhere around the city for the same man.
> 
> "Sometimes you don't go home. You just get ready for the next shift. We work for our families. That's the main reason. We have bills to pay and families to support," he said.
> 
> But then their boss refused to pay them, and the crew reported the local businessman to a workers' rights group which took legal action.
> 
> Astonishingly, Lozano then started getting text messages from the man threatening deportation to the entire crew. "I am going to do whatever it takes to have them sent back to Mexico," read one message sent to Lozano and seen by the Guardian. Lozano is in the US legally, but the employer was explicit about the rest of the crew who were undocumented. "Your [sic] the only one that won't get sent back. Tell that to them," another text stated."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When you break laws expect to have bad things happen to you. Americans who have lost their jobs to illegal aliens (not undocumented) can't feed their families either.   Are their families less important than an illegal alien lawbreakers?
Click to expand...




guno said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can still see some of those faces, dirty and exhausted and really, just about done in. Perched on the edge of the couch or drinking boiling hot water from the hose in the front yard.
> 
> I would always try to have chocolate and real orange juice on hand. I'd make them cheese sandwiches and fill up their water jugs with ice and water. I'd also keep small bottles of water frozen so they would thaw as they walked, giving them cold water.
> 
> People have no idea how many Border Patrol there are around Tucson. I can remember seeing the Border Patrol trucks go by and once, one followed me on the dirt road when I had four illegals in the car with me. If he had stopped me, I would have ended up in jail.
> 
> Several times, I drove them into town to the bus stop. And 2-3 times, drove them all the way to Eloy, a farming community north of Tucson, where they had jobs waiting in the fields.
> 
> They always wanted to pay for the help and would have money in plastic baggies in their shoe.
> 
> Once, driving into Tucson on Ajo, I picked up a family. It was one of the extremely hot summers in the 80s and they just about couldn't walk another step. I stopped at a Circle K and got hot dogs, candy bars and water for each of them. They recognized the Border Patrol HQ on Ajo just inside Tucson. They had a map with a destination on the Tohono O'odom reservation south of Tucson, so I took them there. It was a tiny adobe house and people poured out to welcome their family members.
> 
> The saddest was when the sheriff was holding three in my front yard, waiting for Border Patrol to come get them. They were sitting on the ground, under the tree, totally exhausted, very near complete collapse. The deputy misunderstood, saying he was sorry but they'd get them out of my yard as soon as they could. I made flavored coffee for them, hot and sugary and one of them kissed my hand.
> 
> I would always tell them, Via con Dios when we parted.
> 
> Some of them walk for weeks and weeks. Most of the women are raped - I've read that its more than 80%
> 
> Sometime ago, there was an article in the AZ Daily Star about what happens to the body when you die of dehydration. It must be a real horror - very painful. The illegals themselves would find bodies of others who didn't make it.
> 
> How desperate must someone be to leave everything they know and love to risk it all?
Click to expand...


Its well known that Mexicans do not steal jobs from Americans. The fact is, Americans won't do the work because its too hard and doesn't pay enough to live on.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Vandalshandle said:


> I work with people occasionally who distribute food, water, clothing, and medical care to illegals crossing the desert. I do it, because it is the right thing to do. However, I must admit that I feel like it is a bonus that I am condemned by the Right for doing so.
> 
> As for Mexicans in general, I find them to be humble, polite, grateful, and hard working. I also routinely deal with them when I buy prescriptions and have dental work done in Nogales.



A lot of Americans go to Mexico for affordable health/dental care as well as prescriptions. 

In Nogales, Calle Obregon is well known for an excellent pharmacy and dental clinics. I used to buy Ketoconazole (Nizoral) there for treating my own and rescue dogs who got Valley Fever. The drug is extremely expensive and since the dosage is based on weight, the cost for a single dog's treatment can go to several hundred dollars a month. 

Just another example of medical tourism.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Windship said:


> Romans 13:1-7
> Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.



Windship

You threaten to kill two posters and then preach the bible?

Typical.

Edited to add: *So-called christians believe Jesus was born in a barn because land-owners refused his mother and cuckolded father were refused shelter. And yet, they would do the same while preaching their religion to those who refuse to turn away desperate human beings.*

*How do you get more hypocritical than that?*


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Oldglory1 said:


> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can still see some of those faces, dirty and exhausted and really, just about done in. Perched on the edge of the couch or drinking boiling hot water from the hose in the front yard.
> 
> I would always try to have chocolate and real orange juice on hand. I'd make them cheese sandwiches and fill up their water jugs with ice and water. I'd also keep small bottles of water frozen so they would thaw as they walked, giving them cold water.
> 
> People have no idea how many Border Patrol there are around Tucson. I can remember seeing the Border Patrol trucks go by and once, one followed me on the dirt road when I had four illegals in the car with me. If he had stopped me, I would have ended up in jail.
> 
> Several times, I drove them into town to the bus stop. And 2-3 times, drove them all the way to Eloy, a farming community north of Tucson, where they had jobs waiting in the fields.
> 
> They always wanted to pay for the help and would have money in plastic baggies in their shoe.
> 
> Once, driving into Tucson on Ajo, I picked up a family. It was one of the extremely hot summers in the 80s and they just about couldn't walk another step. I stopped at a Circle K and got hot dogs, candy bars and water for each of them. They recognized the Border Patrol HQ on Ajo just inside Tucson. They had a map with a destination on the Tohono O'odom reservation south of Tucson, so I took them there. It was a tiny adobe house and people poured out to welcome their family members.
> 
> The saddest was when the sheriff was holding three in my front yard, waiting for Border Patrol to come get them. They were sitting on the ground, under the tree, totally exhausted, very near complete collapse. The deputy misunderstood, saying he was sorry but they'd get them out of my yard as soon as they could. I made flavored coffee for them, hot and sugary and one of them kissed my hand.
> 
> I would always tell them, Via con Dios when we parted.
> 
> Some of them walk for weeks and weeks. Most of the women are raped - I've read that its more than 80%
> 
> Sometime ago, there was an article in the AZ Daily Star about what happens to the body when you die of dehydration. It must be a real horror - very painful. The illegals themselves would find bodies of others who didn't make it.
> 
> How desperate must someone be to leave everything they know and love to risk it all?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cry me a river.   Where is the compassion for American families who have lost their jobs to illegal aliens and can't feed their own kids?  Only 3% of illegal aliens are picking crops.  So most crops aren't being picked by them.  Their greedy employers pass their social costs on to we the taxpayer.   Many Americans have had their ID's stolen and their credit ruined due to an illegal alien.    Many Americans have  been victims of other crimes by illegal aliens.   They have no respect for our borders nor our laws.  How anyone can defend them is beyond me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> yes because we all know the mexicans coming across the border have the power to move our factory's off  shore thus decimating the American worker they also have the power to tell people to hire them , right??
> 
> Now for some facts
> 
> Sonali Kolhatkar After 20 Years NAFTA Leaves Mexico 8217 s Economy in Ruins - Sonali Kolhatkar -Truthdig
> 
> desperate  people do desperate things
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both outsourcing and illegal immigration hurt American job opportunities.   Not that you care.   Illegals have no right to accept jobs offered to them by greedy, unscrupulous employers.   These people aren't desperate.   Get a grip!   They simply want what we have and they don't give a damn who they have to hurt to get it.
Click to expand...


You must be thrilled that President Obama has deported more than 2 million (more than any other president) and put more Border Patrol on our southern border - more than any other president. 

Bush, Kyl and McCain all refused to help Arizona with illegals. They ignored the problems - except during campaign years. Then, it was all show and no go from all three.


----------



## Oldglory1

Luddly Neddite said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cry me a river.   Where is the compassion for American families who have lost their jobs to illegal aliens and can't feed their own kids?  Only 3% of illegal aliens are picking crops.  So most crops aren't being picked by them.  Their greedy employers pass their social costs on to we the taxpayer.   Many Americans have had their ID's stolen and their credit ruined due to an illegal alien.    Many Americans have  been victims of other crimes by illegal aliens.   They have no respect for our borders nor our laws.  How anyone can defend them is beyond me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You must live a sheltered life not knowing any Mexicans or people of color, ignorance is fear . Crime? most undocumented people do not want to call attention to themselves and don't want any interaction with the authorities in this country. The are just ring to make money so their families can survive, would you do any less for yours?
> 
> Undocumented workers grim reality speak out on abuse and risk deportation US news theguardian.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "In Austin, Texas, Antonio Campos Lozano and five of his fellow construction workers had gone unpaid by their boss. They had worked night shifts doing building work in a local mall and then often worked through the day elsewhere around the city for the same man.
> 
> "Sometimes you don't go home. You just get ready for the next shift. We work for our families. That's the main reason. We have bills to pay and families to support," he said.
> 
> But then their boss refused to pay them, and the crew reported the local businessman to a workers' rights group which took legal action.
> 
> Astonishingly, Lozano then started getting text messages from the man threatening deportation to the entire crew. "I am going to do whatever it takes to have them sent back to Mexico," read one message sent to Lozano and seen by the Guardian. Lozano is in the US legally, but the employer was explicit about the rest of the crew who were undocumented. "Your [sic] the only one that won't get sent back. Tell that to them," another text stated."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When you break laws expect to have bad things happen to you. Americans who have lost their jobs to illegal aliens (not undocumented) can't feed their families either.   Are their families less important than an illegal alien lawbreakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can still see some of those faces, dirty and exhausted and really, just about done in. Perched on the edge of the couch or drinking boiling hot water from the hose in the front yard.
> 
> I would always try to have chocolate and real orange juice on hand. I'd make them cheese sandwiches and fill up their water jugs with ice and water. I'd also keep small bottles of water frozen so they would thaw as they walked, giving them cold water.
> 
> People have no idea how many Border Patrol there are around Tucson. I can remember seeing the Border Patrol trucks go by and once, one followed me on the dirt road when I had four illegals in the car with me. If he had stopped me, I would have ended up in jail.
> 
> Several times, I drove them into town to the bus stop. And 2-3 times, drove them all the way to Eloy, a farming community north of Tucson, where they had jobs waiting in the fields.
> 
> They always wanted to pay for the help and would have money in plastic baggies in their shoe.
> 
> Once, driving into Tucson on Ajo, I picked up a family. It was one of the extremely hot summers in the 80s and they just about couldn't walk another step. I stopped at a Circle K and got hot dogs, candy bars and water for each of them. They recognized the Border Patrol HQ on Ajo just inside Tucson. They had a map with a destination on the Tohono O'odom reservation south of Tucson, so I took them there. It was a tiny adobe house and people poured out to welcome their family members.
> 
> The saddest was when the sheriff was holding three in my front yard, waiting for Border Patrol to come get them. They were sitting on the ground, under the tree, totally exhausted, very near complete collapse. The deputy misunderstood, saying he was sorry but they'd get them out of my yard as soon as they could. I made flavored coffee for them, hot and sugary and one of them kissed my hand.
> 
> I would always tell them, Via con Dios when we parted.
> 
> Some of them walk for weeks and weeks. Most of the women are raped - I've read that its more than 80%
> 
> Sometime ago, there was an article in the AZ Daily Star about what happens to the body when you die of dehydration. It must be a real horror - very painful. The illegals themselves would find bodies of others who didn't make it.
> 
> How desperate must someone be to leave everything they know and love to risk it all?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its well known that Mexicans do not steal jobs from Americans. The fact is, Americans won't do the work because its too hard and doesn't pay enough to live on.
Click to expand...


That's an outright lie! Illegal  aliens have flooded the construction industry.    Americans have always done those jobs for a fair wage. It doesn't pay enough to live on now because employers have cut the wages in half to get their cheap, illegal labor.


----------



## Oldglory1

Luddly Neddite said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can still see some of those faces, dirty and exhausted and really, just about done in. Perched on the edge of the couch or drinking boiling hot water from the hose in the front yard.
> 
> I would always try to have chocolate and real orange juice on hand. I'd make them cheese sandwiches and fill up their water jugs with ice and water. I'd also keep small bottles of water frozen so they would thaw as they walked, giving them cold water.
> 
> People have no idea how many Border Patrol there are around Tucson. I can remember seeing the Border Patrol trucks go by and once, one followed me on the dirt road when I had four illegals in the car with me. If he had stopped me, I would have ended up in jail.
> 
> Several times, I drove them into town to the bus stop. And 2-3 times, drove them all the way to Eloy, a farming community north of Tucson, where they had jobs waiting in the fields.
> 
> They always wanted to pay for the help and would have money in plastic baggies in their shoe.
> 
> Once, driving into Tucson on Ajo, I picked up a family. It was one of the extremely hot summers in the 80s and they just about couldn't walk another step. I stopped at a Circle K and got hot dogs, candy bars and water for each of them. They recognized the Border Patrol HQ on Ajo just inside Tucson. They had a map with a destination on the Tohono O'odom reservation south of Tucson, so I took them there. It was a tiny adobe house and people poured out to welcome their family members.
> 
> The saddest was when the sheriff was holding three in my front yard, waiting for Border Patrol to come get them. They were sitting on the ground, under the tree, totally exhausted, very near complete collapse. The deputy misunderstood, saying he was sorry but they'd get them out of my yard as soon as they could. I made flavored coffee for them, hot and sugary and one of them kissed my hand.
> 
> I would always tell them, Via con Dios when we parted.
> 
> Some of them walk for weeks and weeks. Most of the women are raped - I've read that its more than 80%
> 
> Sometime ago, there was an article in the AZ Daily Star about what happens to the body when you die of dehydration. It must be a real horror - very painful. The illegals themselves would find bodies of others who didn't make it.
> 
> How desperate must someone be to leave everything they know and love to risk it all?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cry me a river.   Where is the compassion for American families who have lost their jobs to illegal aliens and can't feed their own kids?  Only 3% of illegal aliens are picking crops.  So most crops aren't being picked by them.  Their greedy employers pass their social costs on to we the taxpayer.   Many Americans have had their ID's stolen and their credit ruined due to an illegal alien.    Many Americans have  been victims of other crimes by illegal aliens.   They have no respect for our borders nor our laws.  How anyone can defend them is beyond me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> yes because we all know the mexicans coming across the border have the power to move our factory's off  shore thus decimating the American worker they also have the power to tell people to hire them , right??
> 
> Now for some facts
> 
> Sonali Kolhatkar After 20 Years NAFTA Leaves Mexico 8217 s Economy in Ruins - Sonali Kolhatkar -Truthdig
> 
> desperate  people do desperate things
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both outsourcing and illegal immigration hurt American job opportunities.   Not that you care.   Illegals have no right to accept jobs offered to them by greedy, unscrupulous employers.   These people aren't desperate.   Get a grip!   They simply want what we have and they don't give a damn who they have to hurt to get it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You must be thrilled that President Obama has deported more than 2 million (more than any other president) and put more Border Patrol on our southern border - more than any other president.
> 
> Bush, Kyl and McCain all refused to help Arizona with illegals. They ignored the problems - except during campaign years. Then, it was all show and no go from all three.
Click to expand...


Wrong again!  Obama admitted that he cooked the books on deportations.   He counted those who were turned back at the border.   No other president did that.   Does he deserve praise for instructing Homeland Security not to deport any illegal unless they are "convicted" criminals?  How about DACA that he implemented by EO without congress' approval which gave hundreds of thousands of them a stay of deportation twice for two years with work permits?    So you were sayin?


Luddly Neddite said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can still see some of those faces, dirty and exhausted and really, just about done in. Perched on the edge of the couch or drinking boiling hot water from the hose in the front yard.
> 
> I would always try to have chocolate and real orange juice on hand. I'd make them cheese sandwiches and fill up their water jugs with ice and water. I'd also keep small bottles of water frozen so they would thaw as they walked, giving them cold water.
> 
> People have no idea how many Border Patrol there are around Tucson. I can remember seeing the Border Patrol trucks go by and once, one followed me on the dirt road when I had four illegals in the car with me. If he had stopped me, I would have ended up in jail.
> 
> Several times, I drove them into town to the bus stop. And 2-3 times, drove them all the way to Eloy, a farming community north of Tucson, where they had jobs waiting in the fields.
> 
> They always wanted to pay for the help and would have money in plastic baggies in their shoe.
> 
> Once, driving into Tucson on Ajo, I picked up a family. It was one of the extremely hot summers in the 80s and they just about couldn't walk another step. I stopped at a Circle K and got hot dogs, candy bars and water for each of them. They recognized the Border Patrol HQ on Ajo just inside Tucson. They had a map with a destination on the Tohono O'odom reservation south of Tucson, so I took them there. It was a tiny adobe house and people poured out to welcome their family members.
> 
> The saddest was when the sheriff was holding three in my front yard, waiting for Border Patrol to come get them. They were sitting on the ground, under the tree, totally exhausted, very near complete collapse. The deputy misunderstood, saying he was sorry but they'd get them out of my yard as soon as they could. I made flavored coffee for them, hot and sugary and one of them kissed my hand.
> 
> I would always tell them, Via con Dios when we parted.
> 
> Some of them walk for weeks and weeks. Most of the women are raped - I've read that its more than 80%
> 
> Sometime ago, there was an article in the AZ Daily Star about what happens to the body when you die of dehydration. It must be a real horror - very painful. The illegals themselves would find bodies of others who didn't make it.
> 
> How desperate must someone be to leave everything they know and love to risk it all?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cry me a river.   Where is the compassion for American families who have lost their jobs to illegal aliens and can't feed their own kids?  Only 3% of illegal aliens are picking crops.  So most crops aren't being picked by them.  Their greedy employers pass their social costs on to we the taxpayer.   Many Americans have had their ID's stolen and their credit ruined due to an illegal alien.    Many Americans have  been victims of other crimes by illegal aliens.   They have no respect for our borders nor our laws.  How anyone can defend them is beyond me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> yes because we all know the mexicans coming across the border have the power to move our factory's off  shore thus decimating the American worker they also have the power to tell people to hire them , right??
> 
> Now for some facts
> 
> Sonali Kolhatkar After 20 Years NAFTA Leaves Mexico 8217 s Economy in Ruins - Sonali Kolhatkar -Truthdig
> 
> desperate  people do desperate things
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both outsourcing and illegal immigration hurt American job opportunities.   Not that you care.   Illegals have no right to accept jobs offered to them by greedy, unscrupulous employers.   These people aren't desperate.   Get a grip!   They simply want what we have and they don't give a damn who they have to hurt to get it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You must be thrilled that President Obama has deported more than 2 million (more than any other president) and put more Border Patrol on our southern border - more than any other president.
> 
> Bush, Kyl and McCain all refused to help Arizona with illegals. They ignored the problems - except during campaign years. Then, it was all show and no go from all three.
Click to expand...


----------



## Oldglory1

Luddly Neddite said:


> Windship said:
> 
> 
> 
> Romans 13:1-7
> Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windship
> 
> You threaten to kill two posters and then preach the bible?
> 
> Typical.
> 
> Edited to add: *So-called christians believe Jesus was born in a barn because land-owners refused his mother and cuckolded father were refused shelter. And yet, they would do the same while preaching their religion to those who refuse to turn away desperate human beings.*
> 
> *How do you get more hypocritical than that?*
Click to expand...


Jesus and Mary weren't illegal aliens and these illegals today are not desperate human beings and they have no right to take from American families for their own selfish motives.     They break most of God's commandments so who's the hypocrite now?   You and them!


----------



## guno

guno said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can still see some of those faces, dirty and exhausted and really, just about done in. Perched on the edge of the couch or drinking boiling hot water from the hose in the front yard.
> 
> I would always try to have chocolate and real orange juice on hand. I'd make them cheese sandwiches and fill up their water jugs with ice and water. I'd also keep small bottles of water frozen so they would thaw as they walked, giving them cold water.
> 
> People have no idea how many Border Patrol there are around Tucson. I can remember seeing the Border Patrol trucks go by and once, one followed me on the dirt road when I had four illegals in the car with me. If he had stopped me, I would have ended up in jail.
> 
> Several times, I drove them into town to the bus stop. And 2-3 times, drove them all the way to Eloy, a farming community north of Tucson, where they had jobs waiting in the fields.
> 
> They always wanted to pay for the help and would have money in plastic baggies in their shoe.
> 
> Once, driving into Tucson on Ajo, I picked up a family. It was one of the extremely hot summers in the 80s and they just about couldn't walk another step. I stopped at a Circle K and got hot dogs, candy bars and water for each of them. They recognized the Border Patrol HQ on Ajo just inside Tucson. They had a map with a destination on the Tohono O'odom reservation south of Tucson, so I took them there. It was a tiny adobe house and people poured out to welcome their family members.
> 
> The saddest was when the sheriff was holding three in my front yard, waiting for Border Patrol to come get them. They were sitting on the ground, under the tree, totally exhausted, very near complete collapse. The deputy misunderstood, saying he was sorry but they'd get them out of my yard as soon as they could. I made flavored coffee for them, hot and sugary and one of them kissed my hand.
> 
> I would always tell them, Via con Dios when we parted.
> 
> Some of them walk for weeks and weeks. Most of the women are raped - I've read that its more than 80%
> 
> Sometime ago, there was an article in the AZ Daily Star about what happens to the body when you die of dehydration. It must be a real horror - very painful. The illegals themselves would find bodies of others who didn't make it.
> 
> How desperate must someone be to leave everything they know and love to risk it all?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cry me a river.   Where is the compassion for American families who have lost their jobs to illegal aliens and can't feed their own kids?  Only 3% of illegal aliens are picking crops.  So most crops aren't being picked by them.  Their greedy employers pass their social costs on to we the taxpayer.   Many Americans have had their ID's stolen and their credit ruined due to an illegal alien.    Many Americans have  been victims of other crimes by illegal aliens.   They have no respect for our borders nor our laws.  How anyone can defend them is beyond me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You must live a sheltered life not knowing any Mexicans or people of color, ignorance is fear . Crime? most undocumented people do not want to call attention to themselves and don't want any interaction with the authorities in this country. The are just ring to make money so their families can survive, would you do any less for yours?
> 
> Undocumented workers grim reality speak out on abuse and risk deportation US news theguardian.com
Click to expand...


----------



## Oldglory1

guno said:


> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can still see some of those faces, dirty and exhausted and really, just about done in. Perched on the edge of the couch or drinking boiling hot water from the hose in the front yard.
> 
> I would always try to have chocolate and real orange juice on hand. I'd make them cheese sandwiches and fill up their water jugs with ice and water. I'd also keep small bottles of water frozen so they would thaw as they walked, giving them cold water.
> 
> People have no idea how many Border Patrol there are around Tucson. I can remember seeing the Border Patrol trucks go by and once, one followed me on the dirt road when I had four illegals in the car with me. If he had stopped me, I would have ended up in jail.
> 
> Several times, I drove them into town to the bus stop. And 2-3 times, drove them all the way to Eloy, a farming community north of Tucson, where they had jobs waiting in the fields.
> 
> They always wanted to pay for the help and would have money in plastic baggies in their shoe.
> 
> Once, driving into Tucson on Ajo, I picked up a family. It was one of the extremely hot summers in the 80s and they just about couldn't walk another step. I stopped at a Circle K and got hot dogs, candy bars and water for each of them. They recognized the Border Patrol HQ on Ajo just inside Tucson. They had a map with a destination on the Tohono O'odom reservation south of Tucson, so I took them there. It was a tiny adobe house and people poured out to welcome their family members.
> 
> The saddest was when the sheriff was holding three in my front yard, waiting for Border Patrol to come get them. They were sitting on the ground, under the tree, totally exhausted, very near complete collapse. The deputy misunderstood, saying he was sorry but they'd get them out of my yard as soon as they could. I made flavored coffee for them, hot and sugary and one of them kissed my hand.
> 
> I would always tell them, Via con Dios when we parted.
> 
> Some of them walk for weeks and weeks. Most of the women are raped - I've read that its more than 80%
> 
> Sometime ago, there was an article in the AZ Daily Star about what happens to the body when you die of dehydration. It must be a real horror - very painful. The illegals themselves would find bodies of others who didn't make it.
> 
> How desperate must someone be to leave everything they know and love to risk it all?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cry me a river.   Where is the compassion for American families who have lost their jobs to illegal aliens and can't feed their own kids?  Only 3% of illegal aliens are picking crops.  So most crops aren't being picked by them.  Their greedy employers pass their social costs on to we the taxpayer.   Many Americans have had their ID's stolen and their credit ruined due to an illegal alien.    Many Americans have  been victims of other crimes by illegal aliens.   They have no respect for our borders nor our laws.  How anyone can defend them is beyond me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You must live a sheltered life not knowing any Mexicans or people of color, ignorance is fear . Crime? most undocumented people do not want to call attention to themselves and don't want any interaction with the authorities in this country. The are just ring to make money so their families can survive, would you do any less for yours?
> 
> Undocumented workers grim reality speak out on abuse and risk deportation US news theguardian.com
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


There was no such thing as a native-American.     They migrated here just like the Europeans did.  Why would a so-called native American who is a citizen of this country protest someone who is anti-"illegal" immigration (no they aren't anti'-"immigrant").    Nah, this is a disgruntled Mexican with indio roots that is protesting.   Their land is south of our border not here.


----------



## Unkotare

10 - 15,000 years ago? The first humans to populate the continent? Yeah, that counts as "native."


----------



## Vandalshandle

Regretfully, I find it necessary to post the truth about what this country is doing about illegal aliens, because so many posters here get their "news" from Fox, which is, of course, manufactured in the editor's office:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/u...s-us-cracks-down-on-border-crossers.html?_r=0


----------



## Unkotare

Judging by the posts here, nobody watches Fox more religiously than obsessed liberals.


----------



## Vandalshandle

Unko,

Don't you have a thread somewhere that you should be monitoring to make sure that everyone knows that FDR was evil incarnate?


----------



## Unkotare

I'll bet you heard someone say that on Fox!  (!)


----------



## Oldglory1

Unkotare said:


> 10 - 15,000 years ago? The first humans to populate the continent? Yeah, that counts as "native."



Replace the word "populate" with migrate and  it still doesn't make them natives.


----------



## Oldglory1

Vandalshandle said:


> Regretfully, I find it necessary to post the truth about what this country is doing about illegal aliens, because so many posters here get their "news" from Fox, which is, of course, manufactured in the editor's office:
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/u...s-us-cracks-down-on-border-crossers.html?_r=0



Nice try.  What is Obama doing about those already here?  He has instructed Homeland security not to deport any illegals unless they are "convicted" criminals.   He implemented DACA by EO to give hundred of thousands of them a stay of deportation with work permits.  And no, that's not news from Fox.  It's straight  from the White House.


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 10 - 15,000 years ago? The first humans to populate the continent? Yeah, that counts as "native."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Replace the word "populate" with migrate and  it still doesn't make them natives.
Click to expand...



Calm down. By your standard no human is native to any place on earth outside of Africa.


----------



## Vandalshandle

Oldglory1 said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Regretfully, I find it necessary to post the truth about what this country is doing about illegal aliens, because so many posters here get their "news" from Fox, which is, of course, manufactured in the editor's office:
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/u...s-us-cracks-down-on-border-crossers.html?_r=0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice try.  What is Obama doing about those already here?  He has instructed Homeland security not to deport any illegals unless they are "convicted" criminals.   He implemented DACA by EO to give hundred of thousands of them a stay of deportation with work permits.  And no, that's not news from Fox.  It's straight  from the White House.
Click to expand...


Thanks for confirming my post. The Obama administration has NOT stopped deporting illegals who have not been convicted of other crimes. He has simply given orders that those who have been convicted of crimes are given first priority over those that have not. Why? Because the Border patrol is rounding up many more illegals than they can possible deport, which requires a trial in front of a judge. It is obvious that you did not read my link about Operation Streamline. You might as well turn on O'Rielly and see what he has to say about it, instead.


----------



## Unkotare

Vandalshandle said:


> You might as well turn on O'Rielly and see what he has to say about it, instead.




There it is again, the obsessed liberal must be the most devoted Fox viewers.


----------



## Oldglory1

Unkotare said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> You might as well turn on O'Rielly and see what he has to say about it, instead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There it is again, the obsessed liberal must be the most devoted Fox viewers.
Click to expand...


Liberals for the most part favor illegal aliens.    Conservatives are the ones who don't.  You've got it backwards.


----------



## Oldglory1

Unkotare said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 10 - 15,000 years ago? The first humans to populate the continent? Yeah, that counts as "native."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Replace the word "populate" with migrate and  it still doesn't make them natives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Calm down. By your standard no human is native to any place on earth outside of Africa.
Click to expand...


Our ancestors all originated in Africa.     Are you disputing that?  Today one is native to the country they were born in excluding anchor babies however according to the "intent" of the 14th Amendment by its writers.


----------



## Vandalshandle

Oldglory1 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> You might as well turn on O'Rielly and see what he has to say about it, instead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There it is again, the obsessed liberal must be the most devoted Fox viewers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liberals for the most part favor illegal aliens.    Conservatives are the ones who don't.  You've got it backwards.
Click to expand...


So, if you can not argue with the truth about deportation that I posted as a link, then the Plan 2 is to accuse liberals of favoring illegal aliens? I do believe that you are using a "straw man". However, if you want to speed up the deportations, all you have to do is to get rid of that pesky constitutional right to a trial.


----------



## Oldglory1

Vandalshandle said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> You might as well turn on O'Rielly and see what he has to say about it, instead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There it is again, the obsessed liberal must be the most devoted Fox viewers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liberals for the most part favor illegal aliens.    Conservatives are the ones who don't.  You've got it backwards.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, if you can not argue with the truth about deportation that I posted as a link, then the Plan 2 is to accuse liberals of favoring illegal aliens? I do believe that you are using a "straw man". However, if you want to speed up the deportations, all you have to do is to get rid of that pesky constitutional right to a trial.
Click to expand...


But Obama isn't allowing illegal aliens that don't have a criminal "conviction" on their records to even be detained for a trial.  Liberals love that.


----------



## Vandalshandle

Ok, Oldglory, I will post it AGAIN, Please read it, It talks about exactly what the courts are doing about illegal aliens who have no other convictions. THEY ARE GIVEN THE CHOICE OF PLEADING INNOCENT, IN WHICH CASE THEY GO BACK TO JAIL TO WAIT FOR A TRIAL, OR THEY PLEADE GUILTY, AND ARE DEPORTED.

GEEZE!

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/u...s-us-cracks-down-on-border-crossers.html?_r=0


----------



## Oldglory1

Vandalshandle said:


> Ok, Oldglory, I will post it AGAIN, Please read it, It talks about exactly what the courts are doing about illegal aliens who have no other convictions. THEY ARE GIVEN THE CHOICE OF PLEADING INNOCENT, IN WHICH CASE THEY GO BACK TO JAIL TO WAIT FOR A TRIAL, OR THEY PLEADE GUILTY, AND ARE DEPORTED.
> 
> GEEZE!
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/us/split-second-justice-
> 
> GEEZ, is right!
> 
> Your article is about stopping illegal aliens at the border by the Border Patrol.   What I am talking about is the millions of those that are well within the interior of our country most whom have been here for some time.   Again, Obama has instructed Homeland Security not to detain or deport any of them unless they are "convicted" criminals.  We aren't even talking about the same things here.


----------



## Vandalshandle

Oldglory1 said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, Oldglory, I will post it AGAIN, Please read it, It talks about exactly what the courts are doing about illegal aliens who have no other convictions. THEY ARE GIVEN THE CHOICE OF PLEADING INNOCENT, IN WHICH CASE THEY GO BACK TO JAIL TO WAIT FOR A TRIAL, OR THEY PLEADE GUILTY, AND ARE DEPORTED.
> 
> GEEZE!
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/us/split-second-justice-
> 
> GEEZ, is right!
> 
> Your article is about stopping illegal aliens at the border by the Border Patrol.   What I am talking about is the millions of those that are well within the interior of our country most whom have been here for some time.   Again, Obama has instructed Homeland Security not to detain or deport any of them unless they are "convicted" criminals.  We aren't even talking about the same things here.
Click to expand...


Ok, look. I will explain it to you one more time.

There are 7 federal courts who do absolutely nothing but try and deport illegals every working day of the year.Eeach court must have jailers, prosecution attorneys, defense attorneys, bus transportation facilities, food and food preparation, bailiffs, judges, etc. They simply do not have any more resources to devote to this trying illegal aliens, and it is unconstitutional to deport them unless they have had a day in court. If the government has the facilities to try and deport, say, 500 illegal aliens per day, then anyone can see that this is not going to go very far toward rounding up 12 million illegal aliens in the USA. Therefore, one would have to make a decision as to which ones get priorities. As a result, Jesus, who does my landscaping, supports 2 kids and a wife, and has never been in trouble with the law is NOT going to be sought out and deported, because border patrol and the courts are dealing with the maximum number that they can process, which include those caught crossing the border and those who have also been convicted of other crimes.

However, if you are that unhappy with the way this is being done, elect a republican for president, and have them devote all their time to rounding up my landscaper and letting the convicted drug dealers go free.


----------



## Oldglory1

Vandalshandle said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, Oldglory, I will post it AGAIN, Please read it, It talks about exactly what the courts are doing about illegal aliens who have no other convictions. THEY ARE GIVEN THE CHOICE OF PLEADING INNOCENT, IN WHICH CASE THEY GO BACK TO JAIL TO WAIT FOR A TRIAL, OR THEY PLEADE GUILTY, AND ARE DEPORTED.
> 
> GEEZE!
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/us/split-second-justice-
> 
> GEEZ, is right!
> 
> Your article is about stopping illegal aliens at the border by the Border Patrol.   What I am talking about is the millions of those that are well within the interior of our country most whom have been here for some time.   Again, Obama has instructed Homeland Security not to detain or deport any of them unless they are "convicted" criminals.  We aren't even talking about the same things here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, look. I will explain it to you one more time.
> 
> There are 7 federal courts who do absolutely nothing but try and deport illegals every working day of the year.Eeach court must have jailers, prosecution attorneys, defense attorneys, bus transportation facilities, food and food preparation, bailiffs, judges, etc. They simply do not have any more resources to devote to this trying illegal aliens, and it is unconstitutional to deport them unless they have had a day in court. If the government has the facilities to try and deport, say, 500 illegal aliens per day, then anyone can see that this is not going to go very far toward rounding up 12 million illegal aliens in the USA. Therefore, one would have to make a decision as to which ones get priorities. As a result, Jesus, who does my landscaping, supports 2 kids and a wife, and has never been in trouble with the law is NOT going to be sought out and deported, because border patrol and the courts are dealing with the maximum number that they can process, which include those caught crossing the border and those who have also been convicted of other crimes.
> 
> However, if you are that unhappy with the way this is being done, elect a republican for president, and have them devote all their time to rounding up my landscaper and letting the convicted drug dealers go free.
Click to expand...


Lame excuses.  Illegals aren't even being detained anymore that have managed to remain in our interior.    Our immigration laws don't give a pass to illegal aliens just because  they haven't been "convicted" of a crime.  How many of them use fake or stolen Id's to work?   Or work under the table and avoid paying taxes?    Those are both felonies.    Obama wants them to all get on his big amnesty and that is the real reason that he won't allowed them to be detained for trail.

If you hired  a landscaper that is here illegally then you are both breaking the law.   Apparently you don't give a damn though.


----------



## Vandalshandle

Old, For crying out loud, there is no such thing as an "illegal alien" who has not been convicted of such in a court of law. Also, it is unconstitutional to racially profile someone, and pull them over and demand their proof of citizenship, simply because their skin is brown. Here in AZ, if a deputy has a legal cause to detain someone, he can then demand proof of citizenship. If he does not have that proof, he will be turned over to immigration, and tried for being an illegal alien, and deported. I live here, and that is a fact.

As for my landscaper, I have no idea if he is an illegal alien, or not. He does not wear a sign around his neck, reading, "Illegal Alien" I would only have one reason why I would even suspect that he might be, and that is because he is Hispanic. I do not assume that every Hispanic I meet in Southern AZ is an illegal alien, and I do not ask them to prove to me that they are US citizens. It would be an insult to them, and also unfairly discriminatory. Also, the bottom line is that I don't really give a rat's ass if he is or not. He does good work and a good price.


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 10 - 15,000 years ago? The first humans to populate the continent? Yeah, that counts as "native."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Replace the word "populate" with migrate and  it still doesn't make them natives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Calm down. By your standard no human is native to any place on earth outside of Africa.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Our ancestors all originated in Africa.     Are you disputing that?  Today one is native to the country they were born in excluding anchor babies however according to the "intent" of the 14th Amendment by its writers.
Click to expand...


You need to get off the drugs, gloryhole.


----------



## MaryL

Wow, you  go slumming like it's some kind battle wound or something. Try living with illegals for 15 years or so. You don't give us the superficial  patina  that you know illegals. It isn't anecdotal ( I hate that word), its a reality. Mexicans aren't adapting to this culture, the only thing they add is crime and backwardness. But 15 years plus of experience doesn't  seem to mean anything anymore, everyone  has an A-hole and an option.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> It isn't anecdotal ( I hate that word), its a reality.




It is anecdotal, and you only "hate that word" because you never have any facts to support your frightened, hateful, bitter racism.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> But 15 years plus of experience doesn't  seem to mean anything anymore...




"Anymore"? Your whining about your neighbors from behind your curtains NEVER meant anything.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> Mexicans aren't adapting to this culture...



Mexican immigrants (legal) today ARE adapting to our culture just as immigrant groups before them did.


----------



## Vandalshandle

MaryL said:


> Wow, you  go slumming like it's some kind battle wound or something. Try living with illegals for 15 years or so. You don't give us the superficial  patina  that you know illegals. It isn't anecdotal ( I hate that word), its a reality. Mexicans aren't adapting to this culture, the only thing they add is crime and backwardness. But 15 years plus of experience doesn't  seem to mean anything anymore, everyone  has an A-hole and an option.



This is exactly what people were saying about the Chinese back in the late 1800's, which resulted in this nation's first immigration restriction law aimed at a specific race, back in 1882. I am afraid that you can not take pride in being the first racist on your side of the aisle:

Chinese Exclusion Act - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Vandalshandle




----------



## Vandalshandle

Windship said:


> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windship said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I knew where thes fucking bastards like luddly and this guy lived
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sounds like you have christer revenge fantasy's. Not good threatening people thumper
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see no threat here. What I do sees a person that says he will debate anyone that wants to.
> Seems to me that bleeding hearts get to say whatever they want here at USMB and the rest are
> made part of a plan to be removed from this site because of their opposite views.
Click to expand...


That's because we are all illegal aliens on this board, Windship, and we are stealing the board from you white, legal Americans....


----------



## Windship

Vandalshandle said:


> Windship said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windship said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I knew where thes fucking bastards like luddly and this guy lived
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sounds like you have christer revenge fantasy's. Not good threatening people thumper
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see no threat here. What I do sees a person that says he will debate anyone that wants to.
> Seems to me that bleeding hearts get to say whatever they want here at USMB and the rest are
> made part of a plan to be removed from this site because of their opposite views.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because we are all illegal aliens on this board, Windship, and we are stealing the board from you white, legal Americans....
Click to expand...

 
Wow! Another GOLD MEMBER! Wow!!   lol,...  Dope.  And with almost 4500 posts in less than 1 year, Id bet you are an Illegal mex in southern Arizona, that is not working and taking all you can get from my country.


----------



## Windship

Vandalshandle said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you  go slumming like it's some kind battle wound or something. Try living with illegals for 15 years or so. You don't give us the superficial  patina  that you know illegals. It isn't anecdotal ( I hate that word), its a reality. Mexicans aren't adapting to this culture, the only thing they add is crime and backwardness. But 15 years plus of experience doesn't  seem to mean anything anymore, everyone  has an A-hole and an option.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is exactly what people were saying about the Chinese back in the late 1800's, which resulted in this nation's first immigration restriction law aimed at a specific race, back in 1882. I am afraid that you can not take pride in being the first racist on your side of the aisle:
> 
> Chinese Exclusion Act - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

 
"fools talk because they have to say something"


----------



## Vandalshandle

Windship said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windship said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windship said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I knew where thes fucking bastards like luddly and this guy lived
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sounds like you have christer revenge fantasy's. Not good threatening people thumper
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see no threat here. What I do sees a person that says he will debate anyone that wants to.
> Seems to me that bleeding hearts get to say whatever they want here at USMB and the rest are
> made part of a plan to be removed from this site because of their opposite views.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because we are all illegal aliens on this board, Windship, and we are stealing the board from you white, legal Americans....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow! Another GOLD MEMBER! Wow!!   lol,...  Dope.  And with almost 4500 posts in less than 1 year, *Id bet you are an Illegal mex in southern Arizona, that is not working and taking all you can get from my country*.
Click to expand...


75% of your post is correct, Windy, but you will have to figure out for yourself which part in incorrect....


----------



## MaryL

Is this a trap or something? I once  helped a gay Buddhist Nazi change the tire of old white old guy that looked like Archie Bunker sort of thingy? I hate that crap. So Anecdotal. Why is it nobody else uses a word like Anecdotal but one poster? Meanwhile, back at  the ranch, illegal aliens are raping, killing and it's business as usual. Why bother with the outrage... Anglos notice that, it's business as usual. It is what Mexicans do, and we non Hispanics aren't supposed to notice, yeah we notice alright.We just aren't supposed  to say anything about it, though.


----------



## Oldglory1

Vandalshandle said:


>



Are you seriously sugge


Vandalshandle said:


>



Are you seriously suggesting that we discriminate in our legal immigrations numbers today?   Are you serious that we are the same country we were back then?   We have 320 million people in this country today and many of them can't even find a job. And by the way, are you aware that Latinos hold the highest numbers in our country for legal immigration annually and that doesn't even count their family reunification numbers.   We allow in 1 million legal immigrants a year. How many will be enough for you?


----------



## Vandalshandle

All this hand wringing over terrorists crossing the southern border, when in it is possible to cross the Canadian Border on the honor system, by stopping at the unmanned border crossing, and using the telephone there to notify officials that you are getting ready to cross into the USA. BTW, this is real. I have been there, and seen it.

CNN.com - Anderson Cooper 360 Blog


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> Is this a trap or something? I once  helped a gay Buddhist Nazi change the tire of old white old guy that looked like Archie Bunker sort of thingy? I hate that crap. So Anecdotal. Why is it nobody else uses a word like Anecdotal but one poster? Meanwhile, back at  the ranch, illegal aliens are raping, killing and it's business as usual. Why bother with the outrage... Anglos notice that, it's business as usual. It is what Mexicans do, and we non Hispanics aren't supposed to notice, yeah we notice alright.We just aren't supposed  to say anything about it, though.




Wow, biddy goes for the passive-aggressive, victimology racist approach all in one post. So much whining, so little time...


----------



## Oldglory1

Vandalshandle said:


> All this hand wringing over terrorists crossing the southern border, when in it is possible to cross the Canadian Border on the honor system, by stopping at the unmanned border crossing, and using the telephone there to notify officials that you are getting ready to cross into the USA. BTW, this is real. I have been there, and seen it.
> 
> CNN.com - Anderson Cooper 360 Blog



How many illegals have managed to breach our northern border vs our southern one?  What is the likelyhood that terrorists have managed to sneak right in along with Mexicans and other Latinos?   Even the FBI Director has said that many OTM's from known terrorists countries have managed to slip through our southern border and disappeared into our country.  I rest my case.


----------



## Vandalshandle

Oldglory1 said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> All this hand wringing over terrorists crossing the southern border, when in it is possible to cross the Canadian Border on the honor system, by stopping at the unmanned border crossing, and using the telephone there to notify officials that you are getting ready to cross into the USA. BTW, this is real. I have been there, and seen it.
> 
> CNN.com - Anderson Cooper 360 Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many illegals have managed to breach our northern border vs our southern one?  What is the likelyhood that terrorists have managed to sneak right in along with Mexicans and other Latinos?   Even the FBI Director has said that many OTM's from known terrorists countries have managed to slip through our southern border and disappeared into our country.  I rest my case.
Click to expand...


Ok, You win. I am terrified of all the ISIS Muslims wearing sombreros passing my home here south of Tucson. In hopes that they will not harm me, I leave prayer rugs on my back patio, lined up with Mecca so that they don't have to get their ponchos dirty during calls to prayer. I have "welcome" signs out their printed in both Spanish and Arabic.

Now that you have got me scared of Muslim illegal aliens, do you want to warn me about Obama's upcoming death panels, or move straight to the government's planned gun confiscation in preparation of the upcoming new world order?


----------



## Oldglory1

s





Vandalshandle said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> All this hand wringing over terrorists crossing the southern border, when in it is possible to cross the Canadian Border on the honor system, by stopping at the unmanned border crossing, and using the telephone there to notify officials that you are getting ready to cross into the USA. BTW, this is real. I have been there, and seen it.
> 
> CNN.com - Anderson Cooper 360 Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many illegals have managed to breach our northern border vs our southern one?  What is the likelyhood that terrorists have managed to sneak right in along with Mexicans and other Latinos?   Even the FBI Director has said that many OTM's from known terrorists countries have managed to slip through our southern border and disappeared into our country.  I rest my case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, You win. I am terrified of all the ISIS Muslims wearing sombreros passing my home here south of Tucson. In hopes that they will not harm me, I leave prayer rugs on my back patio, lined up with Mecca so that they don't have to get their ponchos dirty during calls to prayer. I have "welcome" signs out their printed in both Spanish and Arabic.
> 
> Now that you have got me scared of Muslim illegal aliens, do you want to warn me about Obama's upcoming death panels, or move straight to the government's planned gun confiscation in preparation of the upcoming new world order?
Click to expand...


You won't be laughing and poking fun if and when these terrorists that have snuck in through our southern border and pulled another one of their dirty deeds in our country.    What's with the sombreros and ponchos remarks?   Who's suggesting that Mexicans are terrorists?   Grasping at straws now are you?

Another thing do you think that the drug cartels are above taking bribes from these terrorists to gain entry into our country via our southern border?


----------



## Windship

pismoe said:


> SURE ya did Luddley  !!


 


C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Votto said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what are the differences between a military invasion and an invasion of illegal immigrants?
> 
> 
> 
> There is no 'invasion.'
> 
> An immigrant isn't 'illegal' until such time as he has been found guilty in a court of law, as all persons in the United States are entitled to due process (see _Plyler v. Doe_ (1984)).
Click to expand...

 


Windship said:


> lol...just "no they wouldnt" no elaboration or explanation. Just blurt out "no they wouldnt".
> So...why not?


----------



## Windship

dblack said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Much of my perspective on this formed when I was a union construction worker. Union guys pretty consistently look down on non-union workers, but have a particular contempt for immigrant, non-union workers. And I couldn't get past the irony that the 'wetbacks' they so despised, in general, worked twice as hard as the union jackasses who spit on them for their effort. And for a fraction of union wages.
Click to expand...

 
How unbelievably sad.
You just dont know why huh?
Well, here goes...because illegals break unions, drive down wages, working conditions while driving up the required hours to be worked.
Those union guys get it and understand while you and your ilk dont.


----------



## dblack

Windship said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Much of my perspective on this formed when I was a union construction worker. Union guys pretty consistently look down on non-union workers, but have a particular contempt for immigrant, non-union workers. And I couldn't get past the irony that the 'wetbacks' they so despised, in general, worked twice as hard as the union jackasses who spit on them for their effort. And for a fraction of union wages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How unbelievably sad.
> You just dont know why huh?
> Well, here goes...because illegals break unions, drive down wages, working conditions while driving up the required hours to be worked.
> Those union guys get it and understand while you and your ilk dont.
Click to expand...


Oh I get it. It's a good-old-boy's club and they don't want to share the special privilege they've negotiated from government. I just don't have any sympathy for their whiny asses.


----------



## Oldglory1

I find the title of this topic kind of odd.   How many illegals come up to anyone's door?


----------



## Conservative65

dblack said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
Click to expand...

 
Only stupid people like you seem to think that because you think the law is stupid you shouldn't follow it.  You're worse than  the illegals traitor.


----------



## Conservative65

Luddly Neddite said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> as a GENERAL RULE it seems to me that any decent person will help ANY individual person in dire need and its nothing to even talk about except for encouraging help to needy people .  I didn't read the link except for a real quick perusal .   ---------  So , helping individuals in dire need is nothing to be bragging about !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. And I trust that, despite some of the ridiculous bravado that goes on on these boards, that's how most react to real life suffering. My dad, for example, was a dyed-in-the-wool racist, but underneath such an ugly shortcoming, he was decent man - and I saw him consistently treat _individuals_ with compassion and respect, regardless of their race. Only a thoroughgoing bigot can look another human being in the eye and ignore the person, seeing only an object of their ideology or prejudices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree. My own father was racist as well and once dragged me off a dance floor for dancing with a black. But, like you say, he was also a good and decent man. He was simply born at a time when ignorance about race was rampant. Uh, much like we're seeing from some people now.
> 
> Another thing I often saw in Tucson was that Mexicans would always stop to help others in need. Broken down car or whatever - Mexican Americans would never pass you by. I once asked a brash young man why that is and he and his friends all kind of laughed and said because they're mothers would let them have it if they ever passed up someone needing help.
> 
> Mexicans are also very family oriented. I would often see young guys with their babies/children in grocery stores or similar settings. You would never see them scold or ignore or expect their wives to take care of the child. They might look like young toughs but they treat their kids with such incredible love and caring - its truly touching.
> 
> I've been gone from Tcsn for more than 7 years now so this might have changed but there was a church that defied the law to put out water stations in the desert.
> 
> I also knew of others who did as we did - they simply helped the people who came to their door.  What a shame that reaching out a helping hand to a fellow human being is now against the law.
> 
> We do have machines that pick some crops. Others must still be harvested by hand.
> 
> The US has used migrant farm workers for generations. And, we have always treated them in the most shameful ways. We use them and hate them for it. Its a modern day slavery.
Click to expand...

 
It's not slavery.  They choose to come here, get paid for it, and aren't held against their will.  Slavery involved all three of those.


----------



## Conservative65

Luddly Neddite said:


> I can still see some of those faces, dirty and exhausted and really, just about done in. Perched on the edge of the couch or drinking boiling hot water from the hose in the front yard.
> 
> I would always try to have chocolate and real orange juice on hand. I'd make them cheese sandwiches and fill up their water jugs with ice and water. I'd also keep small bottles of water frozen so they would thaw as they walked, giving them cold water.
> 
> People have no idea how many Border Patrol there are around Tucson. I can remember seeing the Border Patrol trucks go by and once, one followed me on the dirt road when I had four illegals in the car with me. If he had stopped me, I would have ended up in jail.
> 
> Several times, I drove them into town to the bus stop. And 2-3 times, drove them all the way to Eloy, a farming community north of Tucson, where they had jobs waiting in the fields.
> 
> They always wanted to pay for the help and would have money in plastic baggies in their shoe.
> 
> Once, driving into Tucson on Ajo, I picked up a family. It was one of the extremely hot summers in the 80s and they just about couldn't walk another step. I stopped at a Circle K and got hot dogs, candy bars and water for each of them. They recognized the Border Patrol HQ on Ajo just inside Tucson. They had a map with a destination on the Tohono O'odom reservation south of Tucson, so I took them there. It was a tiny adobe house and people poured out to welcome their family members.
> 
> The saddest was when the sheriff was holding three in my front yard, waiting for Border Patrol to come get them. They were sitting on the ground, under the tree, totally exhausted, very near complete collapse. The deputy misunderstood, saying he was sorry but they'd get them out of my yard as soon as they could. I made flavored coffee for them, hot and sugary and one of them kissed my hand.
> 
> I would always tell them, Via con Dios when we parted.
> 
> Some of them walk for weeks and weeks. Most of the women are raped - I've read that its more than 80%
> 
> Sometime ago, there was an article in the AZ Daily Star about what happens to the body when you die of dehydration. It must be a real horror - very painful. The illegals themselves would find bodies of others who didn't make it.
> 
> How desperate must someone be to leave everything they know and love to risk it all?


 
How much of a traitor someone in this country must be to enable illegals in any way.


----------



## Conservative65

Luddly Neddite said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
Click to expand...

 
When an illegal is standing on my front porch, I'll slam the door in their criminal face.

Several years ago, I was working in my yard.  A car pulled up and a younger female got out.  Her English had a heavy Spanish accent.  She was canvassing the neighborhood handing out business cards for house cleaning.  I told her that if I hired her I would need to have a Social Security # so I could 1099 her at the end of the year in order that she report her self employment income.  She snatched that car quickly, got in the car, and drove away quickly.  Willing to be money she was illegal and so were the rest of the criminals in the car with her. 

Unlike you, I don't enable crime then justify it.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Oldglory1 said:


> I find the title of this topic kind of odd.   How many illegals come up to anyone's door?



When you live in the travel corridor for more than 25-30 years, literally hundreds.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Windship said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Much of my perspective on this formed when I was a union construction worker. Union guys pretty consistently look down on non-union workers, but have a particular contempt for immigrant, non-union workers. And I couldn't get past the irony that the 'wetbacks' they so despised, in general, worked twice as hard as the union jackasses who spit on them for their effort. And for a fraction of union wages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How unbelievably sad.
> You just dont know why huh?
> Well, here goes...because illegals break unions, drive down wages, working conditions while driving up the required hours to be worked.
> Those union guys get it and understand while you and your ilk dont.
Click to expand...


No, actually they don't do any of those things. 

Just because you're too lazy to do the same work, doesn't mean that's their fault.

If you want to blame, talk to those who hire them. How about those who advertise in foreign countries (including Mexico) and then pay to transport them - just like we did in years ago.


----------



## Hossfly

Luddly Neddite said:


> Windship said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Much of my perspective on this formed when I was a union construction worker. Union guys pretty consistently look down on non-union workers, but have a particular contempt for immigrant, non-union workers. And I couldn't get past the irony that the 'wetbacks' they so despised, in general, worked twice as hard as the union jackasses who spit on them for their effort. And for a fraction of union wages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How unbelievably sad.
> You just dont know why huh?
> Well, here goes...because illegals break unions, drive down wages, working conditions while driving up the required hours to be worked.
> Those union guys get it and understand while you and your ilk dont.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, actually they don't do any of those things.
> 
> Just because you're too lazy to do the same work, doesn't mean that's their fault.
> 
> If you want to blame, talk to those who hire them. How about those who advertise in foreign countries (including Mexico) and then pay to transport them - just like we did in years ago.
Click to expand...

Back in the 50s, farmers from my county in Western Maryland pooled money together to have Mexican farm workers bussed from the border. After harvest they would go back home till the next fall. Many of them applied for visas and eventually became citizens. Another program was for farmers to foster teens, send them to school and gain citizenship. There were a lot of Anglo-Latino marriages. If you go there today you'll find many still living there and some even own the farms they worked on as kids. Them was the "good ol' days."


----------



## Oldglory1

Luddly Neddite said:


> Windship said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Much of my perspective on this formed when I was a union construction worker. Union guys pretty consistently look down on non-union workers, but have a particular contempt for immigrant, non-union workers. And I couldn't get past the irony that the 'wetbacks' they so despised, in general, worked twice as hard as the union jackasses who spit on them for their effort. And for a fraction of union wages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How unbelievably sad.
> You just dont know why huh?
> Well, here goes...because illegals break unions, drive down wages, working conditions while driving up the required hours to be worked.
> Those union guys get it and understand while you and your ilk dont.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, actually they don't do any of those things.
> 
> Just because you're too lazy to do the same work, doesn't mean that's their fault.
> 
> If you want to blame, talk to those who hire them. How about those who advertise in foreign countries (including Mexico) and then pay to transport them - just like we did in years ago.
Click to expand...


You need to educate yourself on this subject but those like you with an agenda don't care anyway.   There aren't any jobs that Americans won't do for a fair wage.  They aren't lazy.   As for crop picking there are unlimited H-2A visas for LEGAL, foreign workers.    There are three guilty parties here and that is our government, the employers and the illegals themselves.   Why do you give illegals a pass in this?   They know they have no right to come here or to work here without authorization from our government.   Typical illegal alien defender.    Why do you care so little about our immigration laws and the American worker?


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Hossfly said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windship said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Much of my perspective on this formed when I was a union construction worker. Union guys pretty consistently look down on non-union workers, but have a particular contempt for immigrant, non-union workers. And I couldn't get past the irony that the 'wetbacks' they so despised, in general, worked twice as hard as the union jackasses who spit on them for their effort. And for a fraction of union wages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How unbelievably sad.
> You just dont know why huh?
> Well, here goes...because illegals break unions, drive down wages, working conditions while driving up the required hours to be worked.
> Those union guys get it and understand while you and your ilk dont.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, actually they don't do any of those things.
> 
> Just because you're too lazy to do the same work, doesn't mean that's their fault.
> 
> If you want to blame, talk to those who hire them. How about those who advertise in foreign countries (including Mexico) and then pay to transport them - just like we did in years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Back in the 50s, farmers from my county in Western Maryland pooled money together to have Mexican farm workers bussed from the border. After harvest they would go back home till the next fall. Many of them applied for visas and eventually became citizens. Another program was for farmers to foster teens, send them to school and gain citizenship. There were a lot of Anglo-Latino marriages. If you go there today you'll find many still living there and some even own the farms they worked on as kids. Them was the "good ol' days."
Click to expand...


Somebody should-a told them about the Bracero Program.

No, it wasn't the good old days. Then, as now, we hired them for slave wages and treat them like shit.

The end of Bracero put many US farmers into bankruptcy. We're seeing the same thing happening now. Racism is causing the end of a lot of family farms so that big corporations are able to buy them at pennies on the dollar. That's on ignorant, racist, RW voters.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Oldglory1 said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windship said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Much of my perspective on this formed when I was a union construction worker. Union guys pretty consistently look down on non-union workers, but have a particular contempt for immigrant, non-union workers. And I couldn't get past the irony that the 'wetbacks' they so despised, in general, worked twice as hard as the union jackasses who spit on them for their effort. And for a fraction of union wages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How unbelievably sad.
> You just dont know why huh?
> Well, here goes...because illegals break unions, drive down wages, working conditions while driving up the required hours to be worked.
> Those union guys get it and understand while you and your ilk dont.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, actually they don't do any of those things.
> 
> Just because you're too lazy to do the same work, doesn't mean that's their fault.
> 
> If you want to blame, talk to those who hire them. How about those who advertise in foreign countries (including Mexico) and then pay to transport them - just like we did in years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to educate yourself on this subject but those like you with an agenda don't care anyway.   There aren't any jobs that Americans won't do for a fair wage.  They aren't lazy.   As for crop picking there are unlimited H-2A visas for LEGAL, foreign workers.    There are three guilty parties here and that is our government, the employers and the illegals themselves.   Why do you give illegals a pass in this?   They know they have no right to come here or to work here without authorization from our government.   Typical illegal alien defender.    Why do you care so little about our immigration laws and the American worker?
Click to expand...


You're asssuming facts not in evidence.

Americans ARE lazy.
Those jobs do not pay a fair wage.
I've never given a pass to illegals or defended illegals' braking the law.

What I have done and would do again is helped human beings who came to my door.

YOU have posted against raising minimum wage for Americans. It is YOU who does not care about the American worker.


----------



## Oldglory1

Luddly Neddite said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windship said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Much of my perspective on this formed when I was a union construction worker. Union guys pretty consistently look down on non-union workers, but have a particular contempt for immigrant, non-union workers. And I couldn't get past the irony that the 'wetbacks' they so despised, in general, worked twice as hard as the union jackasses who spit on them for their effort. And for a fraction of union wages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How unbelievably sad.
> You just dont know why huh?
> Well, here goes...because illegals break unions, drive down wages, working conditions while driving up the required hours to be worked.
> Those union guys get it and understand while you and your ilk dont.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, actually they don't do any of those things.
> 
> Just because you're too lazy to do the same work, doesn't mean that's their fault.
> 
> If you want to blame, talk to those who hire them. How about those who advertise in foreign countries (including Mexico) and then pay to transport them - just like we did in years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Back in the 50s, farmers from my county in Western Maryland pooled money together to have Mexican farm workers bussed from the border. After harvest they would go back home till the next fall. Many of them applied for visas and eventually became citizens. Another program was for farmers to foster teens, send them to school and gain citizenship. There were a lot of Anglo-Latino marriages. If you go there today you'll find many still living there and some even own the farms they worked on as kids. Them was the "good ol' days."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Somebody should-a told them about the Bracero Program.
> 
> No, it wasn't the good old days. Then, as now, we hired them for slave wages and treat them like shit.
> 
> The end of Bracero put many US farmers into bankruptcy. We're seeing the same thing happening now. Racism is causing the end of a lot of family farms so that big corporations are able to buy them at pennies on the dollar. That's on ignorant, racist, RW voters.
Click to expand...


Did you not read where I said there are unlimited H-2A visas for LEGAL, foreign crop pickers?   WTH does racism have to do with our right to expect al workers to come here legally?   If you think that only right wingers own businesses that hire illegal  aliens to fatten their wallets then you aren't  dealing in reality.    You're apparently are the ignorant one here.     No one is forcing illegal aliens to come here to work  for slave labor wages.   They choose to do it and it's against the law for them to come here and to work here.


----------



## Oldglory1

Luddly Neddite said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windship said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Much of my perspective on this formed when I was a union construction worker. Union guys pretty consistently look down on non-union workers, but have a particular contempt for immigrant, non-union workers. And I couldn't get past the irony that the 'wetbacks' they so despised, in general, worked twice as hard as the union jackasses who spit on them for their effort. And for a fraction of union wages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How unbelievably sad.
> You just dont know why huh?
> Well, here goes...because illegals break unions, drive down wages, working conditions while driving up the required hours to be worked.
> Those union guys get it and understand while you and your ilk dont.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, actually they don't do any of those things.
> 
> Just because you're too lazy to do the same work, doesn't mean that's their fault.
> 
> If you want to blame, talk to those who hire them. How about those who advertise in foreign countries (including Mexico) and then pay to transport them - just like we did in years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to educate yourself on this subject but those like you with an agenda don't care anyway.   There aren't any jobs that Americans won't do for a fair wage.  They aren't lazy.   As for crop picking there are unlimited H-2A visas for LEGAL, foreign workers.    There are three guilty parties here and that is our government, the employers and the illegals themselves.   Why do you give illegals a pass in this?   They know they have no right to come here or to work here without authorization from our government.   Typical illegal alien defender.    Why do you care so little about our immigration laws and the American worker?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're asssuming facts not in evidence.
> 
> Americans ARE lazy.
> Those jobs do not pay a fair wage.
> I've never given a pass to illegals or defended illegals' braking the law.
> 
> What I have done and would do again is helped human beings who came to my door.
> 
> YOU have posted against raising minimum wage for Americans. It is YOU who does not care about the American worker.
Click to expand...


You're full of sheet that Americans are lazy and even if that were true (but it's not) then why not hire legal immigrants then or are they lazy also?   No, it's all about the greedy employers just wanting to hire cheap labor to increase their profits it has nothing to do with Americans being lazy.

Lawbreakers are human also but there are laws about aiding and abetting them.

I have no problem raising the minimum wage but what good would it do if the employers are still gong to have access to cheap, illegal labor?   No, it's you that doesn't care about the American worker if you did you would be fighting illegal immigration not defending and sympathizing with it.


----------



## Conservative65

Luddly Neddite said:


> Windship said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Much of my perspective on this formed when I was a union construction worker. Union guys pretty consistently look down on non-union workers, but have a particular contempt for immigrant, non-union workers. And I couldn't get past the irony that the 'wetbacks' they so despised, in general, worked twice as hard as the union jackasses who spit on them for their effort. And for a fraction of union wages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How unbelievably sad.
> You just dont know why huh?
> Well, here goes...because illegals break unions, drive down wages, working conditions while driving up the required hours to be worked.
> Those union guys get it and understand while you and your ilk dont.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, actually they don't do any of those things.
> 
> Just because you're too lazy to do the same work, doesn't mean that's their fault.
> 
> If you want to blame, talk to those who hire them. How about those who advertise in foreign countries (including Mexico) and then pay to transport them - just like we did in years ago.
Click to expand...

 
I've determined Luddly that you're good at one thing.  Being a traitor to your country.  You enable the illegals coming here then rant about a business hiring them.  YOU do the same thing by helping them.


----------



## CowboyTed

Hossfly said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> Anyone crossing the border in that area and trying to make it north on foot is gonna pay dearly. Also I blame the Mexican government for those deaths.
Click to expand...

You mean the mexicans who have the country destroyed by criminal cartels fueled by the US drug market.

America is paying to disable your neighbour and then complaining that some want to move out...


----------



## Hossfly

CowboyTed said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> Anyone crossing the border in that area and trying to make it north on foot is gonna pay dearly. Also I blame the Mexican government for those deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean the mexicans who have the country destroyed by criminal cartels fueled by the US drug market.
> 
> America is paying to disable your neighbour and then complaining that some want to move out...
Click to expand...

Could you translate that please?


----------



## Conservative65

Luddly Neddite said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windship said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Much of my perspective on this formed when I was a union construction worker. Union guys pretty consistently look down on non-union workers, but have a particular contempt for immigrant, non-union workers. And I couldn't get past the irony that the 'wetbacks' they so despised, in general, worked twice as hard as the union jackasses who spit on them for their effort. And for a fraction of union wages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How unbelievably sad.
> You just dont know why huh?
> Well, here goes...because illegals break unions, drive down wages, working conditions while driving up the required hours to be worked.
> Those union guys get it and understand while you and your ilk dont.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, actually they don't do any of those things.
> 
> Just because you're too lazy to do the same work, doesn't mean that's their fault.
> 
> If you want to blame, talk to those who hire them. How about those who advertise in foreign countries (including Mexico) and then pay to transport them - just like we did in years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to educate yourself on this subject but those like you with an agenda don't care anyway.   There aren't any jobs that Americans won't do for a fair wage.  They aren't lazy.   As for crop picking there are unlimited H-2A visas for LEGAL, foreign workers.    There are three guilty parties here and that is our government, the employers and the illegals themselves.   Why do you give illegals a pass in this?   They know they have no right to come here or to work here without authorization from our government.   Typical illegal alien defender.    Why do you care so little about our immigration laws and the American worker?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're asssuming facts not in evidence.
> 
> Americans ARE lazy.
> Those jobs do not pay a fair wage.
> I've never given a pass to illegals or defended illegals' braking the law.
> 
> What I have done and would do again is helped human beings who came to my door.
> 
> YOU have posted against raising minimum wage for Americans. It is YOU who does not care about the American worker.
Click to expand...

 
Those currently making minimum wage demanding that they be given more than the skills they have are worth are lazy.  They think their $5/hour skills, those already being paid more at $7.25 than they are worth, are worth mor than the $5/hour skills they offer.  If they spent half as much time trying to better themselves as they do demanding someone GIVE them more simply for existing, the problems they say exist would solve themselves. 

If someone has low skills, what are those skills worth?  You said they don't get a fair wage.  Sounds to me as if you think someone should get a wage based on existence not skills. 

If you helped illegals that came to your door, you enabled them.  In other words, you were an accessory to a crime just as if the person you helped was a bank robber running from the police.  Last time I looked, that's illegal, too. 

I'm against the minimum wage period.  The government should not be able to tell a business owner any amount he/she has to pay any worker.  People like you talk about believing in freedom and choice yet do everything opposite of what you say then try to justify why you think it's OK in those cases is good.


----------



## Windship

Luddly Neddite said:


> Windship said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Much of my perspective on this formed when I was a union construction worker. Union guys pretty consistently look down on non-union workers, but have a particular contempt for immigrant, non-union workers. And I couldn't get past the irony that the 'wetbacks' they so despised, in general, worked twice as hard as the union jackasses who spit on them for their effort. And for a fraction of union wages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How unbelievably sad.
> You just dont know why huh?
> Well, here goes...because illegals break unions, drive down wages, working conditions while driving up the required hours to be worked.
> Those union guys get it and understand while you and your ilk dont.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, actually they don't do any of those things.
> 
> Just because you're too lazy to do the same work, doesn't mean that's their fault.
> 
> If you want to blame, talk to those who hire them. How about those who advertise in foreign countries (including Mexico) and then pay to transport them - just like we did in years ago.
Click to expand...

 

Do you have any idea why wages have been stagnant or decreased for 40 yrs? Because now the cheap labor is coming here. They are not just "picking fruits and vegetables" either! The illegal aliens are putting Americans out of work in  carpentry, plumbing, house construction, comercial construction, the marine trades, everywhere !and what amazes me is that it is just fine and dandy with some that they come here and take Americans' jobs for cheaper pay, less benny'or no ne at all, more hours, and worsening work conditions. "Oh they work their asses of" I dont fukkin care! Do you think lesser paying jobs is good for  the US?


----------



## Windship

Conservative65 said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windship said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Much of my perspective on this formed when I was a union construction worker. Union guys pretty consistently look down on non-union workers, but have a particular contempt for immigrant, non-union workers. And I couldn't get past the irony that the 'wetbacks' they so despised, in general, worked twice as hard as the union jackasses who spit on them for their effort. And for a fraction of union wages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How unbelievably sad.
> You just dont know why huh?
> Well, here goes...because illegals break unions, drive down wages, working conditions while driving up the required hours to be worked.
> Those union guys get it and understand while you and your ilk dont.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, actually they don't do any of those things.
> 
> Just because you're too lazy to do the same work, doesn't mean that's their fault.
> 
> If you want to blame, talk to those who hire them. How about those who advertise in foreign countries (including Mexico) and then pay to transport them - just like we did in years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to educate yourself on this subject but those like you with an agenda don't care anyway.   There aren't any jobs that Americans won't do for a fair wage.  They aren't lazy.   As for crop picking there are unlimited H-2A visas for LEGAL, foreign workers.    There are three guilty parties here and that is our government, the employers and the illegals themselves.   Why do you give illegals a pass in this?   They know they have no right to come here or to work here without authorization from our government.   Typical illegal alien defender.    Why do you care so little about our immigration laws and the American worker?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're asssuming facts not in evidence.
> 
> Americans ARE lazy.
> Those jobs do not pay a fair wage.
> I've never given a pass to illegals or defended illegals' braking the law.
> 
> What I have done and would do again is helped human beings who came to my door.
> 
> YOU have posted against raising minimum wage for Americans. It is YOU who does not care about the American worker.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those currently making minimum wage demanding that they be given more than the skills they have are worth are lazy.  They think their $5/hour skills, those already being paid more at $7.25 than they are worth, are worth mor than the $5/hour skills they offer.  If they spent half as much time trying to better themselves as they do demanding someone GIVE them more simply for existing, the problems they say exist would solve themselves.
> 
> 
> What woud you suggest the pay be?
> 
> 
> If someone has low skills, what are those skills worth?  You said they don't get a fair wage.  Sounds to me as if you think someone should get a wage based on existence not skills.
> 
> If you helped illegals that came to your door, you enabled them.  In other words, you were an accessory to a crime just as if the person you helped was a bank robber running from the police.  Last time I looked, that's illegal, too.
> 
> I'm against the minimum wage period.  The government should not be able to tell a business owner any amount he/she has to pay any worker.  People like you talk about believing in freedom and choice yet do everything opposite of what you say then try to justify why you think it's OK in those cases is good.
Click to expand...


----------



## Zander

Puddly lies as easily as his hero Obama. It just comes natural to him.


----------



## MaryL

Why is it that nobody questions pro illegal anecdotalism but DAMN if they question anything else? I once saw a NICE Illegal alien, they must all be great all the time! ...Jesus H Christ. Question things.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Hossfly said:


> CowboyTed said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> Anyone crossing the border in that area and trying to make it north on foot is gonna pay dearly. Also I blame the Mexican government for those deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean the mexicans who have the country destroyed by criminal cartels fueled by the US drug market.
> 
> America is paying to disable your neighbour and then complaining that some want to move out...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Could you translate that please?
Click to expand...


He's right.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

MaryL said:


> Why is it that nobody questions pro illegal anecdotalism but DAMN if they question anything else? I once saw a NICE Illegal alien, they must all be great all the time! ...Jesus H Christ. Question things.



Please post a link and the exact quote where some one said that "all illegals are great all the time". 

Thanks ever so much. 








OR - you just admit you're lying - again. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hossfly

Luddly Neddite said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it that nobody questions pro illegal anecdotalism but DAMN if they question anything else? I once saw a NICE Illegal alien, they must all be great all the time! ...Jesus H Christ. Question things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please post a link and the exact quote where some one said that "all illegals are great all the time".
> 
> Thanks ever so much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OR - you just admit you're lying - again.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Mary seemed to make a sarcastic remark, Nuddly. You're wasting your talents here.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Hossfly said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it that nobody questions pro illegal anecdotalism but DAMN if they question anything else? I once saw a NICE Illegal alien, they must all be great all the time! ...Jesus H Christ. Question things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please post a link and the exact quote where some one said that "all illegals are great all the time".
> 
> Thanks ever so much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OR - you just admit you're lying - again.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mary seemed to make a sarcastic remark, Nuddly. You're wasting your talents here.
Click to expand...


Actually, she lied but I'll bet she jumps at the out you gave her.

Take responsibility for what you say and do.


----------



## Manonthestreet

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — A man suspected of killing two deputies during a shooting rampage in Northern California was deported twice to Mexico and had a drug conviction, federal authorities said Saturday. Suspect in killing of deputies was twice deported - Yahoo News


----------



## whitehall

What's the point? What does a "talented Salvadorian artist" do for a living? The concept of art is subjective these days and it's possible that his "art" might be in illegal arenas. If he can't get a green card why should the US admit his freaking artist skills?


----------



## ninja007

Hossfly said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> Anyone crossing the border in that area and trying to make it north on foot is gonna pay dearly. Also I blame the Mexican government for those deaths.
Click to expand...


Luddley and others support them cuz they will vote dem. ALL OF THEM.


----------



## usmcstinger

Luddly Neddite said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
> 
> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Much of my perspective on this formed when I was a union construction worker. Union guys pretty consistently look down on non-union workers, but have a particular contempt for immigrant, non-union workers. And I couldn't get past the irony that the 'wetbacks' they so despised, in general, worked twice as hard as the union jackasses who spit on them for their effort. And for a fraction of union wages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're right and I've seen it.
> 
> They do the work that no American wants or, likely, could even do.
> 
> I've written before about the family who did yard work for me while we still lived in Tucson before we moved out of the city. They asked $5 a hour and did more work and better than any American I ever hired. I paid them $10 an hour and gave them a lawn mower we never used. I don't know if they were legal or not because I never asked.
> 
> I wish Americans felt as strongly about the drug cartels as they do migrant farm workers.
Click to expand...


Do you believe that citizens of this country who use illegal SS cards that can cause identity theft should be prosecuted?
Federal Law states that it is a felony to use illegal SS Cards and an additional Felony for identity theft. Do you believe Illegal Aliens who who commit the same felonies should be Prosecuted?* Illegal Aliens can not obtain legal SS Cards.*


----------



## MaryL

I am going the opposite way. I want to disposes illegal immigrants  in any way I can. Because I am either very petty or they are really vile mean spirited selfish  bastards. Being that I see how they are cruel, disrespectful and manipulative, I tend to go towards Mexican illegals are repugnant jerks that are cynically using pity to avoid  the legal consequences of immigrating illegally.


----------



## Esmeralda

It's funny. All of the people on here who hate illegals assume all of their ancestors who came to the USA were legal immigrants. I'll bet it ain't so, not for most of them. I'll bet nearly everyone of them has at least one illegal hanging on their family tree.


----------



## dblack

The state of Texas was built by illegal immigrants. And not in the sense you might think. It was originally part of Mexico. But when conservatives took over the government in Mexico City, they were wary of immigrants from the United States and attempted to close the borders. Of course, nothing delights true Americans like defying authoritarian government. They moved in anyway, despite their status as "illegals". Mexico tried to fight it. And how did that work out for them?


----------



## Conservative65

Esmeralda said:


> It's funny. All of the people on here who hate illegals assume all of their ancestors who came to the USA were legal immigrants. I'll bet it ain't so, not for most of them. I'll bet nearly everyone of them has at least one illegal hanging on their family tree.



Bet you can't come close to proving your accusation.


----------



## Oldglory1

Esmeralda said:


> It's funny. All of the people on here who hate illegals assume all of their ancestors who came to the USA were legal immigrants. I'll bet it ain't so, not for most of them. I'll bet nearly everyone of them has at least one illegal hanging on their family tree.



So then, if I had a serial killer in my ancestry I should approve of serial killing then?   Our ancestors aren't us and we aren't them.   We are all individuals only responsible for our own actions and are obligated  to respect the laws on the books "today'.  So we shouldn't have immigration laws today because just "maybe" some of us may have an illegal alien in our family tree?   You're an idiot!


----------



## Conservative65

Esmeralda said:


> It's funny. All of the people on here who hate illegals assume all of their ancestors who came to the USA were legal immigrants. I'll bet it ain't so, not for most of them. I'll bet nearly everyone of them has at least one illegal hanging on their family tree.



You'll lose that bet asshole.  My family came here in the early 1900s and we have proof they are legal.  

Any more stupid claims.


----------



## Roadrunner

pismoe said:


> I've often wondered why the USA hasn't developed crop picking machines if Americans won't do the crop picking for piddling wages  .   We've been to the moon , plumbed the ocean depths and we can't make crop picking machines , doesn't make sense to me .    Then again I don't mind illegals picking crops if once crops are picked the pickers / illegals  are sent home .   Think that's how it used to be , something called - Bracero - or some such I think .


All sorts of crops are picked with machines, replacing stoop labor and unskilled labor.

Take cotton for example, virtually untouched by human hands now, and, all the former cottonpickers have still not found jobs.

There is little use for unskilled stoop labor, and where there is a use, it does not pay what welfare pays.

Hence the illegals, who should be able to come and go, with papers, and not a chance of citizenship for them or their kids.


----------



## Roadrunner

pismoe said:


> the drugs will never stop  imo Luddley .   I use a little alcohol , beer on occasion but that's it .   I don't think that there is an answer to the drug problem other than making everthing legal and letting people get sick and die --- or some kinda hardcore rehabilitation !!


Alcohol is a drug.

It kills more people than all illegal drugs combined.


----------



## Roadrunner

Moonglow said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've often wondered why the USA hasn't developed crop picking machines if Americans won't do the crop picking for piddling wages  .   We've been to the moon , plumbed the ocean depths and we can't make crop picking machines , doesn't make sense to me .    Then again I don't mind illegals picking crops if once crops are picked the pickers / illegals  are sent home .   Think that's how it used to be , something called - Bracero - or some such I think .
> 
> 
> 
> Some crops can only be picked by hand...
Click to expand...

Name a few.


----------



## Roadrunner

Moonglow said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've often wondered why the USA hasn't developed crop picking machines if Americans won't do the crop picking for piddling wages  .   We've been to the moon , plumbed the ocean depths and we can't make crop picking machines , doesn't make sense to me .    Then again I don't mind illegals picking crops if once crops are picked the pickers / illegals  are sent home .   Think that's how it used to be , something called - Bracero - or some such I think .
> 
> 
> 
> Some crops can only be picked by hand...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like boogers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> and dingle berries...
Click to expand...

Oh, I thought you said crop, not crap.


----------



## Roadrunner

guno said:


> Rikurzhen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've often wondered why the USA hasn't developed crop picking machines if Americans won't do the crop picking for piddling wages
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> They have but it's cheaper for farmers to reap the benefits of cheap labor and shove all the social costs of supporting the peasants onto taxpayers. When citizens put their foot down, or more accurately use their foot to kick the asses of the infiltrators out of the country, then innovation seems to fix the problems:
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> Economist Philip Martin of the University of California likes to tell a story about the state's tomato industry. In the early 1960s, growers relied on seasonal Mexican laborers, brought in under the government's "bracero" program. The Mexicans picked the tomatoes that were then processed into ketchup and other products. In 1964 Congress killed the program despite growers' warnings that its abolition would doom their industry. What happened? *Well, plant scientists developed oblong tomatoes that could be harvested by machine. Since then, California's tomato output has risen fivefold.*​
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> Mexico’s urban poor fared no better. Although a flood of cheap U.S. grain was supposed to make consumer prices fall, they in fact rose. With the end of the Conasupo stores and price controls, the price of tortillas more than doubled in the years following NAFTA’s adoption. One company, Grupo Maseca, monopolized tortilla production, while Wal-Mart became Mexico’s largest retailer.
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> Under Mexico’s former national content laws, foreign automakers like Ford, Chrysler, General Motors, and Volkswagen were required to buy some of their components from Mexican producers. NAFTA, however, prohibited laws requiring foreign producers to use a certain percentage of local content in assembled products. Without this restraint, the auto giants began to supply their assembly lines with parts from their own subsidiaries, often manufactured in other countries. Mexican auto parts workers lost their jobs by the thousands.
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> Displaced People NAFTA s Most Important Product North American Congress on Latin America
Click to expand...

The sucking sound you heard was jobs crossing the border on the way to China.


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## Roadrunner

Luddly Neddite said:


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> Cry me a river.   Where is the compassion for American families who have lost their jobs to illegal aliens and can't feed their own kids?  Only 3% of illegal aliens are picking crops.  So most crops aren't being picked by them.  Their greedy employers pass their social costs on to we the taxpayer.   Many Americans have had their ID's stolen and their credit ruined due to an illegal alien.    Many Americans have  been victims of other crimes by illegal aliens.   They have no respect for our borders nor our laws.  How anyone can defend them is beyond me.
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> You must live a sheltered life not knowing any Mexicans or people of color, ignorance is fear . Crime? most undocumented people do not want to call attention to themselves and don't want any interaction with the authorities in this country. The are just ring to make money so their families can survive, would you do any less for yours?
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> Undocumented workers grim reality speak out on abuse and risk deportation US news theguardian.com
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> "In Austin, Texas, Antonio Campos Lozano and five of his fellow construction workers had gone unpaid by their boss. They had worked night shifts doing building work in a local mall and then often worked through the day elsewhere around the city for the same man.
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> "Sometimes you don't go home. You just get ready for the next shift. We work for our families. That's the main reason. We have bills to pay and families to support," he said.
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> But then their boss refused to pay them, and the crew reported the local businessman to a workers' rights group which took legal action.
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> Astonishingly, Lozano then started getting text messages from the man threatening deportation to the entire crew. "I am going to do whatever it takes to have them sent back to Mexico," read one message sent to Lozano and seen by the Guardian. Lozano is in the US legally, but the employer was explicit about the rest of the crew who were undocumented. "Your [sic] the only one that won't get sent back. Tell that to them," another text stated."
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> When you break laws expect to have bad things happen to you. Americans who have lost their jobs to illegal aliens (not undocumented) can't feed their families either.   Are their families less important than an illegal alien lawbreakers?
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> I can still see some of those faces, dirty and exhausted and really, just about done in. Perched on the edge of the couch or drinking boiling hot water from the hose in the front yard.
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> I would always try to have chocolate and real orange juice on hand. I'd make them cheese sandwiches and fill up their water jugs with ice and water. I'd also keep small bottles of water frozen so they would thaw as they walked, giving them cold water.
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> People have no idea how many Border Patrol there are around Tucson. I can remember seeing the Border Patrol trucks go by and once, one followed me on the dirt road when I had four illegals in the car with me. If he had stopped me, I would have ended up in jail.
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> Several times, I drove them into town to the bus stop. And 2-3 times, drove them all the way to Eloy, a farming community north of Tucson, where they had jobs waiting in the fields.
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> They always wanted to pay for the help and would have money in plastic baggies in their shoe.
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> Once, driving into Tucson on Ajo, I picked up a family. It was one of the extremely hot summers in the 80s and they just about couldn't walk another step. I stopped at a Circle K and got hot dogs, candy bars and water for each of them. They recognized the Border Patrol HQ on Ajo just inside Tucson. They had a map with a destination on the Tohono O'odom reservation south of Tucson, so I took them there. It was a tiny adobe house and people poured out to welcome their family members.
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> The saddest was when the sheriff was holding three in my front yard, waiting for Border Patrol to come get them. They were sitting on the ground, under the tree, totally exhausted, very near complete collapse. The deputy misunderstood, saying he was sorry but they'd get them out of my yard as soon as they could. I made flavored coffee for them, hot and sugary and one of them kissed my hand.
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> I would always tell them, Via con Dios when we parted.
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> Some of them walk for weeks and weeks. Most of the women are raped - I've read that its more than 80%
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> Sometime ago, there was an article in the AZ Daily Star about what happens to the body when you die of dehydration. It must be a real horror - very painful. The illegals themselves would find bodies of others who didn't make it.
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> How desperate must someone be to leave everything they know and love to risk it all?
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> Its well known that Mexicans do not steal jobs from Americans. The fact is, Americans won't do the work because its too hard and doesn't pay enough to live on.
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Yet they pay enough for illegals to live here AND send money home.

These jobs just don't pay as much as welfare.


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## Roadrunner

Unkotare said:


> 10 - 15,000 years ago? The first humans to populate the continent? Yeah, that counts as "native."


Earlier arrivals is most correct.


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## Roadrunner

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> 10 - 15,000 years ago? The first humans to populate the continent? Yeah, that counts as "native."
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> Replace the word "populate" with migrate and  it still doesn't make them natives.
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> Calm down. By your standard no human is native to any place on earth outside of Africa.
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> Our ancestors all originated in Africa.     Are you disputing that?  Today one is native to the country they were born in excluding anchor babies however according to the "intent" of the 14th Amendment by its writers.
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The intent was to guarantee citizenship to the children of slaves.

It is a far stretch from that to anchor babies.


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## Unkotare

Esmeralda said:


> It's funny. All of the people on here who hate illegals ...



Who has mentioned "hate" here beside you?


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## AmericanFirst

dblack said:


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> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
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> I assume you support illegal aliens breaking the law and crossing the border without documentation.
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> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
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Idiot.


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## AmericanFirst

Luddly Neddite said:


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> Stories.Weather.com The Real Death Valley - The Weather Channel
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> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
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> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
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> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
Click to expand...

So you are part of the problem.


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## dblack

AmericanFirst said:


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> I certainly do. Stupid laws should be disobeyed.
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> I don't. Its a lot more complicated than that.
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> But, that's not what this thread is about. When a human being is standing on your front porch, exhausted and near total collapse, you don't close your door.
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> Over a period of more than 25 years, I helped hundreds and would do it again. There were some I helped every year. They were going to the same crop-picking job every year and knew they could stop at our place for help.
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> So you are part of the problem.
Click to expand...


Where can I sign up? Are there white-hat coyotes?


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