# Handguns vs. AR-15s



## g5000 (Jun 2, 2022)

There are voices saying maybe it is time to show the photos of the dead kids who are killed by mass shooters so the public can see just how horrific AR-15s are.  Example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/06/01/uvalde-mass-shootings-graphic-images/

This was very effective when Emmett Till's mother insisted her son's funeral be an open casket and that his body be shown in the papers so everyone could see what the racist assholes who murdered him had done.  The photo of Till's body shocked the public and sentiment began turning against the segregationist South.

I have mixed feelings about showing the bodies of these small children.  At the very least, it would have to be done with the permission of the parents.

But I think it would be helpful for the public to understand just how horrific these so-called "weapons of war" really are.  

_Routine handgun injuries leave entry and exit wounds and linear tracks through the victim’s body that are roughly the size of the bullet. If the bullet does not directly hit something crucial like the heart or the aorta, and the victim does not bleed to death before being transported to our care at the trauma center, chances are that we can save him. The bullets fired by an AR-15 are different: They travel at a higher velocity and are far more lethal than routine bullets fired from a handgun. The damage they cause is a function of the energy they impart as they pass through the body. A typical AR-15 bullet leaves the barrel traveling almost three times faster than—and imparting more than three times the energy of—a typical 9mm bullet from a handgun. An AR-15 rifle outfitted with a magazine with 50 rounds allows many more lethal bullets to be delivered quickly without reloading.

I have seen a handful of AR-15 injuries in my career. Years ago I saw one from a man shot in the back by a swat team. The injury along the path of the bullet from an AR-15 is vastly different from a low-velocity handgun injury. The bullet from an AR-15 passes through the body like a cigarette boat traveling at maximum speed through a tiny canal. The tissue next to the bullet is elastic—moving away from the bullet like waves of water displaced by the boat—and then returns and settles back. *This process is called cavitation; it leaves the displaced tissue damaged or killed. The high-velocity bullet causes a swath of tissue damage that extends several inches from its path. It does not have to actually hit an artery to damage it and cause catastrophic bleeding. Exit wounds can be the size of an orange.

With an AR-15, the shooter does not have to be particularly accurate. The victim does not have to be unlucky. If a victim takes a direct hit to the liver from an AR-15, the damage is far graver than that of a simple handgun-shot injury. Handgun injuries to the liver are generally survivable unless the bullet hits the main blood supply to the liver. An AR-15 bullet wound to the middle of the liver would cause so much bleeding that the patient would likely never make it to the trauma center to receive our care.









						What I Saw Treating the Victims From Parkland Should Change the Debate on Guns
					

They weren’t the first mass-shooting victims the Florida radiologist saw—but their wounds were radically different.




					www.theatlantic.com
				



*_


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## g5000 (Jun 2, 2022)

_In a typical handgun injury, which I diagnose almost daily, a bullet leaves a laceration through an organ such as the liver. To a radiologist, it appears as a linear, thin, gray bullet track through the organ. There may be bleeding and some bullet fragments.

I was looking at a CT scan of one of the mass-shooting victims from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, who had been brought to the trauma center during my call shift. The organ looked like an overripe melon smashed by a sledgehammer, and was bleeding extensively. How could a gunshot wound have caused this much damage?

The reaction in the emergency room was the same. One of the trauma surgeons opened a young victim in the operating room, and found only shreds of the organ that had been hit by a bullet from an AR-15, a semiautomatic rifle that delivers a devastatingly lethal, high-velocity bullet to the victim._* Nothing was left to repair—and utterly, devastatingly, nothing could be done to fix the problem. The injury was fatal.









						What I Saw Treating the Victims From Parkland Should Change the Debate on Guns
					

They weren’t the first mass-shooting victims the Florida radiologist saw—but their wounds were radically different.




					www.theatlantic.com
				



*


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## g5000 (Jun 2, 2022)

_Compare the damage an AR-15 and a 9mm handgun can do to the human body: “One looks like a grenade went off in there,” says Peter Rhee, a trauma surgeon at the University of Arizona. “The other looks like a bad knife cut.”

[snip]

The bullet from an AR-15 does an entirely different kind of violence to the human body. It’s relatively small, but it leaves the muzzle at three times the speed of a handgun bullet.* It has so much energy that it can disintegrate three inches of leg bone. “It would just turn it to dust,”* says Donald Jenkins, a trauma surgeon at University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio. If it hits the liver, “the liver looks like a jello mold that’s been dropped on the floor.” _










						What an AR-15 Can Do to the Human Body
					

When a patient is shot by an AR-15, it "looks like a grenade went off in there."




					www.wired.com


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 2, 2022)

I already know what the damage looks like.


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## Canon Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

Is there a point to all of this?


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## Lumpy 1 (Jun 2, 2022)

Sadly and alas .. respect for others lives ended with abortion, the undermining of faith, legalization of certain drugs, the closing of mental hospitals
, the rise of the Me ME ME generations and ....  etc. etc. etc.

I'm pretty sure it's only going to get worse if Democratic Party fascists' continue to have their way.. 
.


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## progressive hunter (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> _Compare the damage an AR-15 and a 9mm handgun can do to the human body: “One looks like a grenade went off in there,” says Peter Rhee, a trauma surgeon at the University of Arizona. “The other looks like a bad knife cut.”
> 
> [snip]
> 
> ...


I dont know a person that doesnt already know the damage it causes


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## Couchpotato (Jun 2, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Is there a point to all of this?


Yes.   Even though long guns writ large (not just the AR platform but all rifles combined) account for less than 3 percent of all murders committed via firearm it's worse somehow because of how it looks.    I guess that fits in with "assault weapons" are bad because they look scary mantra.    Im pretty sure the dead could care less if they were shot with an AR, 9mm or bashed over the head with a 2x4.


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## Ringel05 (Jun 2, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Is there a point to all of this?


To do what works best in politics, pull on the emotive strings as hard as possible to turn public opinion.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Is there a point to all of this?


Jesus Fucking Christ.

If you spend too much time playing stupid, you forget to stop.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Couchpotato said:


> Even though long guns writ large (not just the AR platform but all rifles combined) account for less than 3 percent of all murders committed via firearm it's worse somehow because of how it looks.


That's not what was said at all. In fact, the OP made long posts about the actual, physical effects on the human body.

Then you pinch off this pile of shit? You people have a disorder. Worms in your brains.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> “One looks like a grenade went off in there,” says Peter Rhee, a trauma surgeon at the University of Arizona. “The other looks like a bad knife cut.”


yOuR jUsT tRYinG tO sAy AR15s LoOk sCaRy


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## Couchpotato (Jun 2, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> I dont know a person that doesnt already know the damage it causes


it's a stupid comparison.   Comparing the terminal ballistics of a rifle round to a hand gun round is just dumb.     Most of the time the rifle round will have better terminal ballistics than the hand gun.      Most of that has to do with what each platform was designed to do.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> To do what works best in politics, pull on the emotive strings as hard as possible to turn public opinion.


Can't pull on emotive strings, if you don't care about large holes in children. So I guess  you're immune.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> _Compare the damage an AR-15 and a 9mm handgun can do to the human body: “One looks like a grenade went off in there,” says Peter Rhee, a trauma surgeon at the University of Arizona. “The other looks like a bad knife cut.”
> 
> [snip]
> 
> ...





g5000 said:


> There are voices saying maybe it is time to show the photos of the dead kids who are killed by mass shooters so the public can see just how horrific AR-15s are.  Example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/06/01/uvalde-mass-shootings-graphic-images/
> 
> This was very effective when Emmett Till's mother insisted her son's funeral be an open casket and that his body be shown in the papers so everyone could see what the racist assholes who murdered him had done.  The photo of Till's body shocked the public and sentiment began turning against the segregationist South.
> 
> ...





g5000 said:


> _In a typical handgun injury, which I diagnose almost daily, a bullet leaves a laceration through an organ such as the liver. To a radiologist, it appears as a linear, thin, gray bullet track through the organ. There may be bleeding and some bullet fragments.
> 
> I was looking at a CT scan of one of the mass-shooting victims from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, who had been brought to the trauma center during my call shift. The organ looked like an overripe melon smashed by a sledgehammer, and was bleeding extensively. How could a gunshot wound have caused this much damage?
> 
> ...


Shrugs end game is gun confiscation if you really gave a shit there were be demands to arm teachers and have armed security in all schools other than that I don't give a shit about your fack feelings.


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> There are voices saying maybe it is time to show the photos of the dead kids who are killed by mass shooters so the public can see just how horrific AR-15s are.  Example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/06/01/uvalde-mass-shootings-graphic-images/
> 
> This was very effective when Emmett Till's mother insisted her son's funeral be an open casket and that his body be shown in the papers so everyone could see what the racist assholes who murdered him had done.  The photo of Till's body shocked the public and sentiment began turning against the segregationist South.
> 
> ...


So, what are you saying g5000?  We should ban the 5.56/.223?

What is your point?

Do you have one?


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## g5000 (Jun 2, 2022)

The survival rate from handgun wounds is much higher than the survival rate of AR-15 wounds.

Simple fact.


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## Polishprince (Jun 2, 2022)

When I was a youngster, Lib Control Freaks lost their minds about the "Saturday Night Special" handguns.

No handgun manufacturer ever advertised their weapons as "Saturday Night Specials" of course, just like they don't advertise "military style assault weapons" either.

But now no lib today gives a shit about popularly priced handguns.   What gives?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Can't pull on emotive strings, if you don't care about large holes in children. So I guess  you're immune.


If you really cared your goal would be to have armed security in schools.


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## g5000 (Jun 2, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Shrugs end game is gun confiscation if you really gave a shit there were be demands to arm teachers and have armed security in all schools other than that I don't give a shit about your fack feelings.


Was that a sentence?

As for "all we need to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun", that theory has been completely blown out of the  water.  The police at Parkland and in Uvalde completely failed to stop the bad guys with guns.

Only an idiot would continue to subscribe to this idiotic bullshit disastrous idea.


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## Ringel05 (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Can't pull on emotive strings, if you don't care about large holes in children. So I guess  you're immune.


Thanks for making my point.


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> The survival rate from handgun wounds is much higher than the survival rate of AR-15 wounds.
> 
> Simple fact.


So?

Don't start nothin'
Won't be nothin'

I am less concerned about the damage done to the person I am forced to shoot.

Simple Fact.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> Was that a sentence?
> 
> As for "all we need to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun", that theory has been completely blown out of the  water.  The police at Parkland and in Uvalde completely failed to stop the bad guys with guns.
> 
> Only an idiot would continue to subscribe to this idiotic bullshit disastrous idea.


And even when the good guys DO stop the bad guys, mass murder has almost always already occurred .

The Uvalde cops could have stormed that building, and there would still be a pile of dead children.

So the entire argument is embarrassing and mind numbigly stupid.


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## Couchpotato (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> That's not what was said at all. In fact, the OP made long posts about the actual, physical effects on the human body.
> 
> Then you pinch off this pile of shit? You people have a disorder. Worms in your brains.



Yeah no shit that a rifle round does more damage than a handgun round.    If you get hit by a hellfire missile that does more damage than a rifle round.   But since that's not happening with any regularity who gives a shit.      There are almost 11k gun murders every year and less than 300 are committed by rifles, the rest by hand guns.     But Im sure the AR15 is the problem and if we can just ban that all these issues go away.     

It's like you guys have no concept of how to prioritize problems.        We have limited time and resources and unlimited problems.  If we just swing our focus wildly to each one as it pops up in the news or dont prioritize issue according to how severe they actually are and give them their due focus we will continue to just have the problems and they will never be solved.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> Thanks for making my point.


Yes, what we would call, "Normal human emotions". The only point you made is that you do not possess them. Not sure you should be all that proud of that.


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## MarathonMike (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> _Compare the damage an AR-15 and a 9mm handgun can do to the human body: “One looks like a grenade went off in there,” says Peter Rhee, a trauma surgeon at the University of Arizona. “The other looks like a bad knife cut.”
> 
> [snip]
> 
> ...





g5000 said:


> _Compare the damage an AR-15 and a 9mm handgun can do to the human body: “One looks like a grenade went off in there,” says Peter Rhee, a trauma surgeon at the University of Arizona. “The other looks like a bad knife cut.”
> 
> [snip]
> 
> ...


Hollow points in handguns ain't pretty either. Let's focus on the root causes of these shootings and not worry about which gun causes less damage.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> Was that a sentence?
> 
> As for "all we need to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun", that theory has been completely blown out of the  water.  The police at Parkland and in Uvalde completely failed to stop the bad guys with guns.
> 
> Only an idiot would continue to subscribe to this idiotic bullshit disastrous idea.


If you really gave a shit you would be pushing for armed security in schools. Other that that I don't give a flying fuck


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Couchpotato said:


> Yeah no shit that a rifle round does more damage than a handgun round.


And a grenade can do even more. And a rocket launcher. Then, a tank. Then...


WHAT IS THE POINT OF ALL OF THIS?!?!?!


hurrrrrrr


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## Couchpotato (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> The survival rate from handgun wounds is much higher than the survival rate of AR-15 wounds.
> 
> Simple fact.


Exponentially more people are shot by handguns than AR 15's.      Simple fact.


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## Couchpotato (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> And a grenade can do even more. And a rocket launcher. Then, a tank. Then...
> 
> 
> WHAT IS THE POINT OF ALL OF THIS?!?!?!
> ...



How about we focus on what's actually causing the most issues.   Here's a hint it aint AR-15's.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Can't pull on emotive strings, if you don't care about large holes in children. So I guess  you're immune.


I am so stop dancing on the graves of dead children. It makes you look ignorant


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Couchpotato said:


> Exponentially more people are shot by handguns than AR 15's.      Simple fact.


Well, that's comforting. Shall I call the families of the people killed by the repeated appearance of AR15s in the hands of nutters at mass murders, and assure them they actually got lucky?

I mean, they could have used HANDGUNS

*shiver*


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## g5000 (Jun 2, 2022)

Polishprince said:


> No handgun manufacturer ever advertised their weapons as "Saturday Night Specials" of course, just like they don't advertise "military style assault weapons" either.











						How to Set Up an AR-15 Like a Navy SEAL
					

The AR-15 is the civilian legal version of the M4 — a weapon used by many U.S. military units, including the elite operators who belong to SOCOM (Special Operations Command). Since the introduction of the M4 in 1994, Navy SEAL teams, including SEAL Team 6 (DEVGRU) assault teams, have taken these...




					www.wingtactical.com


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Couchpotato said:


> How about we focus on what's actually causing the most issues.   Here's a hint it aint AR-15's.


How about, we can do both, and your attempt is dishonest and predictable. We know the gun humper script already. And it ain't all that smart.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> How about, we can do both, and your attempt is dishonest and predictable. We know the gun humper script already. And it ain't all that smart.


Fuck off most already know your script. And we know your end game.


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## Ringel05 (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Yes, what we would call, "Normal human emotions". The only point you made is that you do not possess them. Not sure you should be all that proud of that.


Keep diggin' deeper, you're doing a good job of it.


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## Couchpotato (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Well, that's comforting. Shall I call the families of the people killed by the repeated appearance of AR15s in the hands of nutters at mass murders, and assure them they actually got lucky?
> 
> I mean, they could have used HANDGUNS
> 
> *shiver*



Forest for the trees....


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> Keep diggin' deeper, you're doing a good job of it.


You say pointing out that rifle rounds make larger holes in children and are more deadly is nothing but appeal to emotion.

I will happily accept the contrast that is evident between me and you, an amoral failed human.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Couchpotato said:


> Forest for the trees....


Compelling!

So, have you manged to stop everyone from talking about the very large holes that ar15 rounds make in children's bodies?

No?

Good luck!


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## Ringel05 (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> You say pointing out that rifle rounds make larger holes in children and are more deadly is nothing but appeal to emotion.
> 
> I will happily accept the contrast that is evident between me and you, an amoral failed human.


I didn't say any of that, you infered.  I simply made a factual statement about how the emotive is the primary tool in politics.  I also never said it was only one party that uses the emotive, in fact the emotive approach makes up at least 80% of all politics.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> I didn't say any of that, you infered


Excuse you. Let's recap.


Ringel05 said:


> To do what works best in politics, pull on the emotive strings as hard as possible to turn public opinion


So, just appeal to emotion. Nothing rational about disliking large holes in children. Just a bunch of hysterical hens, pecking at the ground.

Me: "You say pointing out that rifle rounds make larger holes in children and are more deadly is nothing but appeal to emotion"

You:  


Ringel05 said:


> I didn't say any of that, you infered.


Wasn't much of a leap. Not even a baby step.


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## Ringel05 (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Excuse you. Let's recap.
> 
> So, just appeal to emotion. Nothing rational about disliking large holes in children. Just a bunch of hysterical hens, pecking at the ground.
> 
> ...


Obviously you can't see past your own emotive reaction to this situation so trying to have a rational discussion with you is impossible. 
Like my mom used to tell me when I was doing the same: "You're so full of shit your eyes are brown".


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## Rambunctious (Jun 2, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> I didn't say any of that, you infered.  I simply made a factual statement about how the emotive is the primary tool in politics.  I also never said it was only one party that uses the emotive, in fact the emotive approach makes up at least 80% of all politics.


Fort Fun Indiana is a liar... maybe the most dishonest scumbag here....


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## Canon Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Jesus Fucking Christ.
> 
> If you spend too much time playing stupid, you forget to stop.



Three posts in a row by the OP, without any responses.

Mine was a fair question, you sniveling little bitch...


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## Ringel05 (Jun 2, 2022)

Rambunctious said:


> Fort Fun Indiana is a liar... maybe the most dishonest scumbag here....


Yeah I know that but at least I tried, gave him the benefit of the doubt that he might start thinking rationally.  Didn't happen.


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## g5000 (Jun 2, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Is there a point to all of this?


Really?  You are actually this dense?


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## Briss (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> The survival rate from handgun wounds is much higher than the survival rate of AR-15 wounds.
> 
> Simple fact.


The survival rate of knife wounds is much higher than that of handguns.

You gonna be talkin' about that if the AR-15 is banned?


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## martybegan (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> The survival rate from handgun wounds is much higher than the survival rate of AR-15 wounds.
> 
> Simple fact.



Then why does NYC make me wait 3-6 months and pay $500 for a revolver home permit while I can get a rifle much easier?


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## DarthTrader (Jun 2, 2022)

So I can't put hollow point rounds in my hand gun and blow organs up like hitting it with a hammer? Is there something magical about the AR? LOL


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Well, that's comforting. Shall I call the families of the people killed by the repeated appearance of AR15s in the hands of nutters at mass murders, and assure them they actually got lucky?
> 
> I mean, they could have used HANDGUNS
> 
> *shiver*


No, but you shall cry and shit your pants, because your appeals to emotion are completely useless on us.


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## DarthTrader (Jun 2, 2022)

If handguns are so safe how do cops kill so many people with them?


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## Canon Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> Really?  You are actually this dense?


Fuck you, turd.

You made three successive posts, without the benefit of a response from anyone. Perhaps you think talking to yourself is normal. I don't. I think it's kind of weird. It's also sometimes indicative of a degree of mental deficiency.

If your point was the illustrate the level of damage between a 9mm handgun and an AR-15, I would have to say that you're not really breaking any news here. 

The wounds left by an AR-15 are nothing short of horrific. Ever see the arm of the guy Kyle Rittenhouse shot?

Comparing the wounds from an AR-15 and a 9mm handgun is like comparing a Ferrari to a Yugo.

And I think pretty much everyone knows that...


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 2, 2022)

DarthTrader said:


> If handguns are so safe how do cops kill so many people with them?


They only kill black people, so the racist gun grabbers don't care.


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## DarthTrader (Jun 2, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> They only kill black people, so the racist gun grabbers don't care.


And god forbid if that black guy had a gun. What was he doing with such a terrorist weapon?


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 2, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Fuck you, turd.
> 
> You made three successive posts, without the benefit of a response from anyone. Perhaps you think talking to yourself is normal. I don't. I think it's kind of weird. It's also sometimes indicative of a degree of mental deficiency.
> 
> ...


...and what is the fucking point?


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## BrokeLoser (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> There are voices saying maybe it is time to show the photos of the dead kids who are killed by mass shooters so the public can see just how horrific AR-15s are.  Example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/06/01/uvalde-mass-shootings-graphic-images/
> 
> This was very effective when Emmett Till's mother insisted her son's funeral be an open casket and that his body be shown in the papers so everyone could see what the racist assholes who murdered him had done.  The photo of Till's body shocked the public and sentiment began turning against the segregationist South.
> 
> ...


Dark jungle people and third worlders have been shredding each other in the hoods and barrios with 7.62 AK-47’s for decades and yet you racist negro haters never said shit….Now that core American rednecks have made the AR-15 cool you’re suddenly worried about ballistics…and we should take you dumbfucks serious why?

Fort Fun Indiana


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## DarthTrader (Jun 2, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Fuck you, turd.
> 
> You made three successive posts, without the benefit of a response from anyone. Perhaps you think talking to yourself is normal. I don't. I think it's kind of weird. It's also sometimes indicative of a degree of mental deficiency.
> 
> ...


You realize you can just put different types of bullets into your 9mm right? Aw hell...whatever


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## Canon Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Well, that's comforting. Shall I call the families of the people killed by the repeated appearance of AR15s in the hands of nutters at mass murders, and assure them they actually got lucky?
> 
> I mean, they could have used HANDGUNS
> 
> *shiver*


Or, perhaps you could tell them that, if liberals weren't pussies, that more people would be armed and in a position to stop an active shooter.

Or, with you, it's probably far more likely that you'll try to convince them that it's better that their loved ones were victims...


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## Canon Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

DarthTrader said:


> You realize you can just put different types of bullets into your 9mm right? Aw hell...whatever



You realize that you can't put a .223 through a 9mm, right?


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 2, 2022)

BrokeLoser said:


> Dark jungle people and third worlders have been shredding each other in the hoods and barrios with 7.62 AK-47’s for decades and yet you racist negro haters never said shit….Now that core American rednecks have made the AR-15 cool you’re suddenly worried about ballistics…and we should take you dumbfucks serious why?
> 
> Fort Fun Indiana


The 7.62x39 is the quintessential cop killer because anything but level 4 body armor won't stop it.  You should see the damage that cartridge does compared to a 5.56.


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 2, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> You realize that you can't put a .223 through a 9mm, right?


But hollow point 9mm does as much, if not more, damage than a .223.


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## DarthTrader (Jun 2, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> You realize that you can't put a .223 through a 9mm, right?


I can put a hollow point into it.


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## Canon Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> ...and what is the fucking point?



Hell if I know...


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## DarthTrader (Jun 2, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> But hollow point 9mm does as much, if not more, damage than a .223.


Exactly. What are these farsical morons like todsterpatriot? They just ignore what we say and the evidence we provide.


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## Canon Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

DarthTrader said:


> I can put a hollow point into it.



That's super. I have hollowpoints in my .380.

Neither is going to fuck someone up like an .223 will...


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## Canon Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> But hollow point 9mm does as much, if not more, damage than a .223.


I'm not so sure about that.

After all, if you can put 'em in a 9mm, I can put 'em in a .223:


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 2, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Hell if I know...


The point is that the OP is a stupid gun grabber pretending to be some sort of "conservative" but he jacked off to John Kasich--Mr. 1994 Assault Weapons Ban--so, that tells you who g5000 is.


----------



## BluesLegend (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> _Routine handgun injuries leave entry and exit wounds and linear tracks through the victim’s body that are roughly the size of the bullet._


Joe Biden says you are wrong, 9mm handgun bullets "blow up lungs".


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 2, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> That's super. I have hollowpoints in my .380.
> 
> Neither is going to fuck someone up like an .223 will...


Agree to disagree.


----------



## BluesLegend (Jun 2, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> The 7.62x39 is the quintessential cop killer because anything but level 4 body armor won't stop it.  You should see the damage that cartridge does compared to a 5.56.


Nobody is proposing to ban my .338 win mag rifle and it will stop a Polar bear.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 2, 2022)

BluesLegend said:


> Nobody is proposing to ban my .338 win mag rifle and it will stop a Polar bear.


It will stop a Dodge 3500 too.


----------



## g5000 (Jun 2, 2022)

BluesLegend said:


> Nobody is proposing to ban my .338 win mag rifle and it will stop a Polar bear.


Probably because it is bolt action and thus not the preferred weapon of school shooters.


----------



## martybegan (Jun 2, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> But hollow point 9mm does as much, if not more, damage than a .223.



Also, for urban situations aren't hollow points also preferred because they have less of a chance of blowing through walls, windows, and the person being shot and causing unwanted hits/damage?


----------



## BrokeLoser (Jun 2, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> The 7.62x39 is the quintessential cop killer because anything but level 4 body armor won't stop it.  You should see the damage that cartridge does compared to a 5.56.


Oh trust me I know…my Russian SKS with bayonet is my favorite rifle…the thing just shreds shit. 
But but but woke racist tards like g5000 and Fort Fun Indiana never thought to bring that up when toads in Compton were killing each other and kids in car seats….they waited until whitey and barely legal beaners were getting smoked by AR’s….FUCK everything these worthless pieces of shit have to say.


----------



## BluesLegend (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> Probably because it is bolt action and thus not the preferred weapon of school shooters.


Yet. I finished that sentence for you. Alcohol kills a lot more kids, when are you going to ban alcohol?? Hell the leading cause of death among young people today is Fentanyl trafficked into our country by Biden's illegals and open borders. 79,000 Americans KILLED DEAD in just the past 2 years yet the borders are still open and Biden continues to allow them to flood into the country. 

I'll summarize, Dems are lying scum!


----------



## JusticeHammer (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> There are voices saying maybe it is time to show the photos of the dead kids who are killed by mass shooters so the public can see just how horrific AR-15s are.  Example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/06/01/uvalde-mass-shootings-graphic-images/
> 
> This was very effective when Emmett Till's mother insisted her son's funeral be an open casket and that his body be shown in the papers so everyone could see what the racist assholes who murdered him had done.  The photo of Till's body shocked the public and sentiment began turning against the segregationist South.
> 
> ...


Just like idiots on the left to use dead kids. Shameless demscum. Second Amendment doesn't specify what guns you can or cannot have. My AR-15 will stay in my possession no matter what you commies or Joe says.


----------



## whitehall (Jun 2, 2022)

Brandon wants to ban 9mm rifles but there aren't nine mm rifles. Ever see what they do to full term babies in the horrific procedure known as partial birth abortion? They throw these kids in the garbage but what if they laid out one of these babies for everyone to see and it's head looked like a dried up apple? Why not show them in the abortion debate? An AR-15 does a lot of damage but so does any deer rifle or a shotgun especially loaded with oo buck. Confiscate 'em all and let God sort them out?


----------



## BlackSand (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> Compare the damage an AR-15 and a 9mm handgun can do to the human body:


.

If you are going to make a comparison, it is important to make the comparison accurately.

If I shoot someone with a 5.56 ... I am going to pull the trigger once.
If I shoot someone with the 9mm ... They are going to take 3 center mass before I stop pulling the trigger.

The object is to eliminate the threat ... The dying part is optimal if deadly force is called for.

.​


----------



## DarthTrader (Jun 2, 2022)

whitehall said:


> Brandon wants to ban 9mm rifles but there aren't nine mm rifles. Ever see what they do to full term babies in the horrific procedure known as partial birth abortion? They throw these kids in the garbage but what if they laid out one of these babies for everyone to see and it's head looked like a dried up apple? Why not show them in the abortion debate? An AR-15 does a lot of damage but so does any deer rifle or a shotgun especially loaded with oo buck. Confiscate 'em all and let God sort them out?


There are 9mm rifles. 13 Affordable 9mm Carbine Options (2022)


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> Yeah I know that but at least I tried, gave him the benefit of the doubt that he might start thinking rationally.  Didn't happen.


Is that what you call your slithering and tap dancing? Okay.

From where I sit, you realized how bad you made yourself look. And barely cared, but did care a little.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> The point is that the OP is a stupid gun grabber pretending to be some sort of "conservative" but he jacked off to John Kasich--Mr. 1994 Assault Weapons Ban--so, that tells you who g5000 is.


You reveal your utter lack of morality and basic human qualities.

About Large holes in children: Huh? Did someone say something?

About posters who discusses large holes in children not being desirable: This is a travesty! I  am being oppressed! I must insult you immediately!

You dicks can't help but tell on yourselves. You are who you are.


----------



## whitehall (Jun 2, 2022)

DarthTrader said:


> There are 9mm rifles. 13 Affordable 9mm Carbine Options (2022)


Yeah but they are reconfigured handguns for the most part. Not a popular rifle round for a lot of reasons.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Is that what you call your slithering and tap dancing? Okay.
> 
> From where I sit, you realized how bad you made yourself look. And barely cared, but did care a little.


You've got it bad son.  From where you sit?  That's a compliment.  
Okay, I'll try one more time.
What is the purpose of showing the dead children with bullet holes in them?  To *elicit *a strong emotional response and that is a proven fact.  When pro-lifers were showing pictures of aborted babies it was to *elicit* a strong emotional response, period.  Get it now?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> What is the purpose of showing the dead children with bullet holes in them?


So people can understand what it does to their bodies. Why they would have less chance of survival than a handgun shooting victim. To show what one single nutter with an AR15 can do, all by himself. 

This was all covered right away in the thread.

But you, a brave soul, showed you are immune to such emotions and called out this devious tactic. 


Good for you, sociopath.


----------



## DarthTrader (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> So people can understand what it does to their bodies. Why they would have less chance of survival than a handgun shooting victim. To show what one single nutter with an AR15 can do, all by himself.
> 
> This was all covered right away in the thread.
> 
> ...


Dude - 99% of this thread is about how stupid the distinction is.

I put hollow points in my glock and you're going to have bigger holes in you than from an AR.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> So people can understand what it does to their bodies. Why they would have less chance of survival than a handgun shooting victim. To show what one single nutter with an AR15 can do, all by himself.
> 
> This was all covered right away in the thread.
> 
> ...


Nope, you don't get it.  Would it help if I went about my days weeping and gnashing my teeth?  Would that satisfy your sense of moral outrage?
Psst!  Moral outrage is emotive.........  Just in case you didn't know.......


----------



## DarthTrader (Jun 2, 2022)

whitehall said:


> Yeah but they are reconfigured handguns for the most part. Not a popular rifle round for a lot of reasons.


I agree fully which made me wonder what was meant by rifle.

Rifling is the barrel's rifling.

Rifles are just long guns.

Which is why this whole "ban assault rifles" is retarded. Can I have smoothbore long guns then? They make smoothbore AKs....









						Kalashnikov unveils a smoothbore AK - The TG 2
					

The smoothbore version (one that has a barrel without rifling) of the 100-series Kalashnikov intended for use by Russia’s Special Forces is now available in stores, customized for use with new Russian-made rounds.




					www.rbth.com


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> Would it help if I went about my


You mean, pretendng to care and pretending to do so. Let's keep this discussion honest and above board, my sociopathic little friend.

Of course, the goal is action, not your bad acting .


----------



## BluesLegend (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> So people can understand what it does to their bodies.


So we should post pictures of all the 400lb Democrats who are eating themselves to death?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

BluesLegend said:


> So we should post pictures of all the 400lb Democrats who are eating themselves to death?


Your retarded non sequiturs are not my problem


----------



## Couchpotato (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Compelling!
> 
> So, have you manged to stop everyone from talking about the very large holes that ar15 rounds make in children's bodies?
> 
> ...


You worry about the on average 17 people per year that did from being shit by the AR 15 and I’ll worry about something of actual consequence.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Couchpotato said:


> You worry about the on average 17 people per year that did from being shit by the AR 15 and I’ll worry about something of actual consequence.


Good, then sit down and shut the fuck up. Because this thread is about AR15s.  Bye.


----------



## BlackSand (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> So people can understand what it does to their bodies.


.

There are some truly stupid people in your life if you know someone that doesn't understand that bullets will cause damage and kill a person.

.​


----------



## g5000 (Jun 2, 2022)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> I already know what the damage looks like.


To a second grader?


----------



## g5000 (Jun 2, 2022)

DarthTrader said:


> So I can't put hollow point rounds in my hand gun and blow organs up like hitting it with a hammer? Is there something magical about the AR? LOL


School shooters seem to think so.


----------



## g5000 (Jun 2, 2022)

DarthTrader said:


> If handguns are so safe how do cops kill so many people with them?


Because they shoot negroes 21 times, minimum.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

BlackSand said:


> .
> 
> There are some truly stupid people in your life if you know someone that doesn't understand that bullets will kill a person.
> 
> .​


Yes, we actually started at that point and started discussng the differences. Your first clue to this might have been  the thread title. But thanks for your brilliant analysis, as always.


----------



## DarthTrader (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> To a second grader?


Probably - the US murders a lot of kids in its wars. Russia tries to do the least amount of damage to Ukraine possible. Very humane of Russia.


----------



## whitehall (Jun 2, 2022)

DarthTrader said:


> I agree fully which made me wonder what was meant by rifle.
> 
> Rifling is the barrel's rifling.
> 
> ...


Handguns have rifling too. The 9mm is an anemic round intended for handguns. It's rimless so it's difficult to configure a rifle to extract and eject a spent case for a pistol round. My point was that the president of the United States doesn't have a clue about firearms and ballistics and apparently neither does his handlers. Lefties want to show the wounds on the little dead kids to illustrate the damage that a high powered rifle can do but late term abortion has more horrific effects and they kept the carnage secret for decades.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> You mean, pretendng to care and pretending to do so. Let's keep this discussion honest and above board, my sociopathic little friend.
> 
> Of course, the goal is action, not your bad acting .


Nope you definitely don't get it as you refuse to see anything that doesn't fit your moral outrage.  My mom taught me another lesson, "never argue with idiots, those watching can't tell the difference".  This ends our "discussion".


----------



## g5000 (Jun 2, 2022)

DarthTrader said:


> Russia tries to do the least amount of damage to Ukraine possible.


You're kidding, right?


----------



## DarthTrader (Jun 2, 2022)

whitehall said:


> Handguns have rifling too. The 9mm is an anemic round intended for handguns. It's rimless so it's difficult to configure a rifle to extract and eject a spent case for a pistol round. My point was that the president of the United States doesn't have a clue about firearms and ballistics and apparently neither does his handlers. Lefties want to show the wounds on the little dead kids to illustrate the damage that a high powered rifle can do but late term abortion has more horrific effects and they kept the carnage secret for decades.


Yeah that's kind of my point. The gun legislation will end up being moronic and never work.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> Nope you definitely don't get it as you refuse to see anything that doesn't fit your moral outrage.  My mom taught me another lesson, "never argue with idiots, those watching can't tell the difference".  This ends our "discussion".


You are correct, your love of guns over children is not something  I will ever uderstand. Or even try to understand, other than reading about it in a book of psychological disorders. . I will proudly wear that label, thanks halfwit.


----------



## DarthTrader (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> You're kidding, right?


Oh did that tickle your pecker? Get your little ball hairs all aroused?

Does it bother you that the US drops bombs on kids, whether or not Russia does.


----------



## BluesLegend (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Your retarded non sequiturs are not my problem


Unsee this naked


----------



## DarthTrader (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> You are correct, your love of guns over children is not something  I will ever uderstand. Or even try to understand, other than reading about it in a book of psychological disorders. . I will proudly wear that label, thanks halfwit.


Just think of bullets as late term abortion pills and shut up, hypocrite.


----------



## BlackSand (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Yes, we actually started at that point and started discussng the differences. Your first clue to this might have been  the thread title. But thanks for your brilliant analysis, as always.


.

There's nothing brilliant about the Topic.

The object of using deadly force is to eliminate the threat ... Death is a very probable outcome.
If you want to argue to what degree someone should be dead ... It doesn't matter and dead is dead.

.​


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

BluesLegend said:


> Unsee this naked


I want to protect children. That includes children in adult skin suits, like you. You're welcome.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

BlackSand said:


> .
> 
> There's nothing brilliant about the Topic.
> 
> ...


Right, all exactly the same. Because the less you know and the less you think, the simpler life becomes.


----------



## g5000 (Jun 2, 2022)

BlackSand said:


> .
> 
> There's nothing brilliant about the Topic.
> 
> ...


What threat is a second grader?


----------



## Care4all (Jun 2, 2022)

No, don't do it!  It will desensitize us, to where it no longer is that big of a deal to see children or adults being ripped apart.....

It may have an initial shock factor but the next time we see other people torn apart, it won't be such a shock, and even less the next time.... and before you know it we won't be bothered by seeing it, and it becomes the new norm.


----------



## g5000 (Jun 2, 2022)

Care4all said:


> No, don't do it!  It will desensitize us, to where it no longer is that big of a deal to see children or adults being ripped apart.....
> 
> It may have an initial shock factor but the next time we see other people torn apart, it won't be such a shock, and even less the next time.... and before you know it we won't be bothered by seeing it, and it becomes the new norm.


You mean like now?


----------



## BlackSand (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Right, all exactly the same. Because the less you know and the less you think, the simpler life becomes.


.

The less effective a firearm is at eliminating the threat ... The more often you pull the trigger.
It really depends on what you think you know ... And what you really know.

.​


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> There are voices saying maybe it is time to show the photos of the dead kids who are killed by mass shooters so the public can see just how horrific AR-15s are.  Example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/06/01/uvalde-mass-shootings-graphic-images/
> 
> This was very effective when Emmett Till's mother insisted her son's funeral be an open casket and that his body be shown in the papers so everyone could see what the racist assholes who murdered him had done.  The photo of Till's body shocked the public and sentiment began turning against the segregationist South.
> 
> ...


So you won’t lose your shit if we post abortion pics right?


----------



## g5000 (Jun 2, 2022)

Missouri_Mike said:


> So you won’t lose your shit if we post abortion pics right?


See my signature, dipshit.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

BlackSand said:


> The less effective a firearm is at eliminating the threat ... The more often you pull the trigger


And the more time we have to stop you and the more likely we are to save the lives of the wounded.

Again, this was all covered already. We can't spend the entire class on the slow kids, mmkay?


----------



## Care4all (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> You mean like now?


Worse....is my concern.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Care4all said:


> Worse....is my concern.


Worse? Worse than an average of a school shooting a week and nothing whatsoever being done about it?

I will take my chances.


----------



## g5000 (Jun 2, 2022)

BluesLegend said:


> Unsee this naked


Unsee this naked.


----------



## g5000 (Jun 2, 2022)

I'm sure photos of dead blacks murdered by the Southern Christian terrorists would have inured the public after a while, but it only took one time to swing public opinion against segregation.


----------



## BlackSand (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> And the more time we have to stop you and the more likely we are to save the lives of the wounded.


.

Stop me from what ... Why would you want to do that?
Who are you trying to save?

I have carried a fully automatic firearm (and more) for the government you love so dearly.
How are you planning on stopping me, and why?

.​


----------



## Care4all (Jun 2, 2022)

Plus, who wants to see their child, sister, classmate for the next 50 years of their life all torn apart like that when ever they are on the internet....

It's bound to haunt the child survivors as well, who have no say in another parent's decision to do that.....and the survivors already are going to need mental health care to get through this...

I think I still say no!


----------



## Burgermeister (Jun 2, 2022)

According to Biden, 9mm blows lungs out of bodies, so that must be worse than AR ammo.


----------



## g5000 (Jun 2, 2022)

BlackSand said:


> .
> 
> Stop me from what ... Why would you want to do that?
> Who are you trying to save?
> ...


I have also served.  20 years.  Thanks for pointing out it was a weapon of war.


----------



## JusticeHammer (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Can't pull on emotive strings, if you don't care about large holes in children. So I guess  you're immune.


I bet you care as much for aborted babies.


----------



## g5000 (Jun 2, 2022)

JusticeHammer said:


> I bet you care as much for aborted babies.


See my signature.

I care very much about aborted babies.


----------



## g5000 (Jun 2, 2022)

So let's talk about this "appeal to emotion", or as the tards call it, "dancing on the dead bodies".

Are we dancing on the dead bodies of Jews when we show the devastation of the Holocaust to bring home the evil that is fascism?

Are we dancing on the dead bodies of Russians and Chinese people when we talk about the millions killed by communism with the aim of warding people away from that belief system?

Enough with the bullshit.  This is for real.  Real kids are dying.  They are literally being blown to pieces, and you're damned right I will portray the violence of an AR-15 to ward people away from their fetishizing of weapons of war.


----------



## JusticeHammer (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> You reveal your utter lack of morality and basic human qualities.
> 
> About Large holes in children: Huh? Did someone say something?
> 
> ...


We care more than you do murder babies in the womb. Hypocritical ass-wipe.


----------



## BlackSand (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> I have also served.  20 years.  Thanks for pointing out it was a weapon of war.


.

A battle axe is a weapon of war ... 

.​


----------



## JusticeHammer (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> See my signature.
> 
> I care very much about aborted babies.


Then banning abortion is a good thing?


----------



## night_son (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> There are voices saying maybe it is time to show the photos of the dead kids who are killed by mass shooters so the public can see just how horrific AR-15s are.  Example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/06/01/uvalde-mass-shootings-graphic-images/
> 
> This was very effective when Emmett Till's mother insisted her son's funeral be an open casket and that his body be shown in the papers so everyone could see what the racist assholes who murdered him had done.  The photo of Till's body shocked the public and sentiment began turning against the segregationist South.
> 
> ...



Do you need kiddy morgue porn to get off? Perhaps you should view videos of late term abortions instead. You people bathe in hypocrisy and perversion.


----------



## DarthTrader (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> So let's talk about this "appeal to emotion", or as the tards call it, "dancing on the dead bodies".
> 
> Are we dancing on the dead bodies of Jews when we show the devastation of the Holocaust to bring home the evil that is fascism?
> 
> ...


Nobody uses holocaust images to ban guns. But the holocaust couldn't have happened without guns. And ironically would probably not have happened had the Jews had guns.


----------



## night_son (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> The survival rate from handgun wounds is much higher than the survival rate of AR-15 wounds.
> 
> Simple fact.



No, it isn't. Simply not a fact. Your links are loaded bullshit; same as your pants.


----------



## Darkwind (Jun 2, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Is there a point to all of this?


Yes.  Fear.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 2, 2022)

Either weapon hits you right between the eyes.............YOU ARE DEAD.

Both kill........

Back to what Gun Control is..............the ability to hit the target without wasting ammunition.


----------



## blackhawk (Jun 2, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Is there a point to all of this?


The point seems to be if we just get rid of the AR-15 mass shootings will end. Of course you could go into an elementary school class room with a 357 or 44 magnum and a couple of speed loaders and do the same type of damage. People can go back fourth on the gun used in mass shootings for as long as they like until we start focusing on what is driving people to these extremes the problem won't get solved.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 2, 2022)

blackhawk said:


> The point seems to be if we just get rid of the AR-15 mass shootings will end. Of course you could go into an elementary school class room with a 357 or 44 magnum and a couple of speed loaders and do the same type of damage. People can go back fourth on the gun used in mass shootings for as long as they like until we start focusing on what is driving people to these extremes the problem won't get solved.


The American dream is dying.  So they turn to drugs or gangs.........violence.  The family is lost...........morals are being lost......

It will get worse if we fall into the hole of a depression which is possible now.


----------



## whitehall (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> I'm sure photos of dead blacks murdered by the Southern Christian terrorists would have inured the public after a while, but it only took one time to swing public opinion against segregation.


Funny in the age of information you can't still can't get a picture of the tens of thousands of mostly full term unborn black babies who were literally lynched since the Roe v Wade decision. The procedure is called "partial birth" because the victims are partially born. It would be manslaughter to kill a full term living baby if it was lying on the table so the killers found a legal way. The infant is rotated inside the mother to cause a breach birth and the mother apparently watches as the child's head is held in the birth canal inches from life and the back of it's head is opened and it's brain is sucked out until it's head shrinks and it falls to the table. If you want compare 50's lynchings (ironically by democrat party thugs) in the south to maniacs who shoot babies today you have to justify the ongoing genocide of mostly black babies in a horrific procedure.


----------



## night_son (Jun 2, 2022)

blackhawk said:


> The point seems to be if we just get rid of the AR-15 mass shootings will end. Of course you could go into an elementary school class room with a 357 or 44 magnum and a couple of speed loaders and do the same type of damage. People can go back fourth on the gun used in mass shootings for as long as they like until we start focusing on what is driving people to these extremes the problem won't get solved.



The OP is a full metal idiot. ARs can be chambered in dozens of different calibers, including common handgun chamberings. Yet he claims as *fact *AR platform weapons cause greater tissue damage than handgun calibers. The OP paints himself as some kind of experienced shooter or firearm owner, yet he clearly demonstrates next to zero firearm or ballistic knowledge. His goal, much the same as that of democrat politicians, is to whip up mass panic and blind fear; to achieve that, in this case, OP wants to flash gory photos of dead children; essentially desecrate the remains of American children to advance his party's political goal. Not only is OP a disingenuous idiot, but he is also a graveyard ghoul.


----------



## g5000 (Jun 2, 2022)

whitehall said:


> Funny in the age of information you can't still can't get a picture of the tens of thousands of mostly full term unborn black babies who were literally lynched since the Roe v Wade decision. The procedure is called "partial birth" because the victims are partially born. It would be manslaughter to kill a full term living baby if it was lying on the table so the killers found a legal way. The infant is rotated inside the mother to cause a breach birth and the mother apparently watches as the child's head is held in the birth canal inches from life and the back of it's head is opened and it's brain is sucked out until it's head shrinks and it falls to the table. If you want compare 50's lynchings (ironically by democrat party thugs) in the south to maniacs who shoot babies today you have to justify the ongoing genocide of mostly black babies in a horrific procedure.


Have you seen my signature?


----------



## mudwhistle (Jun 2, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> If you really cared your goal would be to have armed security in schools.


Like most terrorists....they use women and children as human shields.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> So let's talk about this "appeal to emotion", or as the tards call it, "dancing on the dead bodies".
> 
> Are we dancing on the dead bodies of Jews when we show the devastation of the Holocaust to bring home the evil that is fascism?
> 
> ...


And I will tell you to go to hell to blame those who didn't do this.  You want to punish us for the sins of others.

Let me make this crystal clear to you............SCREW YOU.


----------



## g5000 (Jun 2, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> And I will tell you to go to hell to blame those who didn't do this.  You want to punish us for the sins of others.
> 
> Let me make this crystal clear to you............SCREW YOU.


You can't have a nuke because of others, either.

Or hand grenades.

Or a tank.


----------



## mudwhistle (Jun 2, 2022)

night_son said:


> The OP is a full metal idiot. ARs can be chambered in dozens of different calibers, including common handgun chamberings. Yet he claims as *fact *AR platform weapons cause greater tissue damage than handgun calibers. The OP paints himself as some kind of experienced shooter or firearm owner, yet he clearly demonstrates next to zero firearm or ballistic knowledge. His goal, much the same as that of democrat politicians, is to whip up mass panic and blind fear; to achieve that, in this case, OP wants to flash gory photos of dead children; essentially desecrate the remains of American children to advance his party's political goal. Not only is OP a disingenuous idiot, but he is also a graveyard ghoul.


AR-15s are the most deadly weapon known to man. (Jan 6th was the worst event in human history)😀

ARs can kill you just by looking at them.


----------



## mudwhistle (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> You can't have a nuke because of others, either.
> 
> Or hand grenades.
> 
> Or a tank.


ARs are much worse than Nukes.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jun 2, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Is there a point to all of this?


Commies need to disarm Americans


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> You can't have a nuke because of others, either.
> 
> Or hand grenades.
> 
> Or a tank.


Your virtue signaling is meaningless to me.  I know what your long term goal is and we SAY NO............

Every time these happen you play the same tune.......Your goal is what is going on in Canada right now...........WE ARE NOT THEM.

Should you ever take full power and think you can force everyone to your VIRTUE.........you had better understand gun control  You will need it.


----------



## whitehall (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> Have you seen my signature?


A photo of a faux license plate don't mean shit. They are killing black babies in horrific ways and you show us a photo of a black guy who was beaten to death in the 50's to make a point about the 2nd Amendment.


----------



## night_son (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> You can't have a nuke because of others, either.
> 
> Or hand grenades.
> 
> Or a tank.



Without permits, an American civilian can own a tank. With special federal permits, an American civilian can own both a tank with a functional cannon and hand grenades. 









						Can Civilians Buy Grenades? - Aero Corner
					

Grenades are powerful explosive devices with an average blast radius of 5 to 20 meters. The first grenades were used in Europe in the 16th century. Grenades are also a common part of the modern military arsenal. The military still uses them, but can civilians buy grenades? Civilians can buy…




					aerocorner.com
				












						Can You Buy a Tank? - Aero Corner
					

The first tanks used in battle appeared during World War I. In the following decades, militaries have developed more sophisticated tanks, but what happens to the decommissioned tanks? A wide range of surplus military items are available to the public, which leads to the question, can civilians...




					aerocorner.com


----------



## Care4all (Jun 2, 2022)

night_son said:


> No, it isn't. Simply not a fact. Your links are loaded bullshit; same as your pants.


But it is simple fact and just plain logical, as well.


----------



## JusticeHammer (Jun 2, 2022)

Care4all said:


> But it is simple fact and just plain logical, as well.


Liar.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> To a second grader?



   It doesnt matter what age they are,the damage is still the same.
The larger calibers do even more damage.
    It seems like you've never gone hunting.
Which wouldnt surprise me considering you're a pussy.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

BlackSand said:


> Stop me from what ... Why would you want to do that?


* if you were the shooter. Duh. 

But you found away to completely dodge my points, even though they were direct answers to questions you asked me.

Go waste someone else's time, jerkoff.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

night_son said:


> Without permits, an American civilian can own a tank. With special federal permits, an American civilian can own both a tank with a functional cannon and hand grenades.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Then why don't mass murderers use them?

Why don't more people own them?

Oh that's right...more obstacles. 

It's almost as if regulation has an effect.


----------



## Couchpotato (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Good, then sit down and shut the fuck up. Because this thread is about AR15s.  Bye.


It’s about the comparative damage the .223 round does to a 9mm actually which is a stupid fucking comparison.    It’s like saying sledge hammers do more damage than fi ish hammers when you hit stuff with them.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Couchpotato said:


> It’s like saying sledge hammers do more damage ththan fi ish hammers when you hit stuff with them.


So, factual. Thanks for the brilliant insight. But we knew that already.


----------



## BlackSand (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> But you found away to completely dodge my points, even though they were direct answers to questions you asked me.
> 
> Go waste someone else's time, jerkoff.


.

No ... You are running out of ways to try and make me fit your retarded narrative ... 
That's not dodging your points ... Just that your points are simply irrelevant.

If you think you are wasting your time ... Carry your ass.
If you have something you would like to discuss ... That is encouraged.
.​


----------



## Couchpotato (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> So, factual. Thanks for the brilliant insight. But we knew that already.


Just like we knew rifle rounds do more damage than handgun rounds.    Derp.


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> See my signature, dipshit.


I can’t see your sig..


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

BlackSand said:


> .
> 
> No ... You are running out of ways to try and make me fit your retarded narrative ...
> That's not dodging your points ... Just that your points are simply irrelevant bullshit.
> ...


You asked me a question.

I easily answred it.

You ignored my points, because you thought your simpleton question was tough, but it wasn't.

So now you have your little fit, after your one attempt at something resembling a point was easily dispatched. 

Rinse, repeat.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Couchpotato said:


> Just like we knew rifle rounds do more damage than handgun rounds.    Derp.


Yes. And then the OP started a thread on it, describing the difference in damage to human bodies.

Wow, it's like you just ran headfirst into post #1.

We will give you a bit to catch up.


----------



## Care4all (Jun 2, 2022)

Missouri_Mike said:


> I can’t see your sig..


Hint:

He's been prolife....forever!


----------



## Couchpotato (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Yes. And then the OP started a thread on it, describing the difference in damage to human bodies.
> 
> Wow, it's like you just ran headfirst into post #1.
> 
> We will give you a bit to catch up.


It’s comparing apples and oranges dummy.  Yes they are both fruit but it’s not the same thing.    You would think you anti gun people would have at least a basic working knowledge of something your so passionate about.


----------



## BlackSand (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> You asked me a question.
> 
> I easily answred it.
> 
> ...


.

At least you are willing to abandon the Topic in hopes of achieving something even more useless and self-serving.

.​


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Couchpotato said:


> It’s comparing apples and oranges dummy.


Yes, comparing the damage two different bullets do to a child's body is like comparing apples and oranges, if you have had a botched lobotomy and your penis is stuck in your gun again.


----------



## night_son (Jun 2, 2022)

Care4all said:


> But it is simple fact and just plain logical, as well.



No, it is not a fact. One should not be forced to delve into the gory details to disprove such fiction, nor should such deception be disseminated into the minds of the American people with the clear motivation to terrify them into surrendering additional freedom or rights in exchange for a sense of blatantly false security.

Laymen tend to prop themselves up on widely speculated generalizations about a great many things indeed. To a laymen, concerning firearms, the large or longer the weapon the more powerful it must be. To a laymen, concerning bullet calibers, the longer the bullet the more deadly it must be. To a laymen, regarding AR platform rifles, they are chambered only in one caliber; the laymen does not know which caliber this is exactly or its capabilities, only that the military has used it for many years so it must be the most lethal caliber ever invented. To a laymen, handguns are useless for combat and only rifles can effectively kill scores of people on the battlefield. Lastly, to a laymen bullets in all AR caliber chamberings are the same shape, weight, and composition as those issued to and in use by our military forces.

When most laymen think of the weakest rifle caliber chambering in civilian hunting firearms they think of .22 long rifle, which is an exactly one inch long by 0.223" diameter, the same bullet diameter coincidentally as that dreaded bullet issued to our military forces. The .22 long rifle has been among the most common civilian hunting bullet since 1884. In the right hands the .22 long rifle can be deadlier than a .223 or 5.56mm (there are slight dimensional differences) military issue bullet. Countless hunters of all ages have harvested small game for the table using the .22 long rifle for over a century. If a skilled shooter decided to kill lots of people at once with a .22 long rifle capable of holding only five rounds—he could do it. Should the model of 1884 .22 long rifle hunting cartridge also be banned?

The 5.56x45mm NATO military issue chambering, also the most common AR platform caliber (.223 in civilian terms and with only slight dimensional differences) measures 2.26 inches in length and is just over two tenths of inch in diameter, and is not exclusively a rifle bullet. The 10mm auto chambering, most commonly considered a handgun cartridge, is 1.26 inches in length and .40" in diameter. The most common AR rifle barrel lengths are 16-20 inches. The most common 10mm *pistol *barrel lengths are 4.5-6", which is up to 15.5" shorter than the longest common AR *rifle* barrel length. And yet, when loaded with the most powerful +P loads available, the 10mm auto can not only approach velocities of the 5.56x45 NATO military issue bullet but also deliver more human tissue and bone damage, partially due to its much greater bullet diameter. Finally, there are much, much more powerful handgun cartridges commonly used for hunting dangerous big game that generate much, much more energy than the 13-1400 foot pounds delivered point blank by an AR-15 chambered in 5.56mm NATO. Thus proving handguns can be much deadlier than the AR in 5.56, and proving AR-15 rifles are not more powerful than handguns, as the idiotic OP professed to be fact.

Bullet composition/design is another concept most laymen do not comprehend. Military issue ammunition of specific and arguably more deadly varieties is not commonly available to the public, or is usually rare and expensive if purchasable. Nevertheless, most military issue ammunition is designed to over penetrate in order to get through thick clothing, wearable web gear and sometimes body armor and still retain enough energy to keep going. A 5.56mm issue full metal jacket military round will often punch through the human core or limbs and keep on trucking. That's not to say it won't do plenty of gruesome damage to the human body on the way. However, when compared to a fragmenting soft copper hollow point handgun caliber bullet designed to cause massive internal trauma to the human body, the 5.56mm rifle round can be considered the less destructive of the two.

Lastly, the 5.56x45mm military caliber can be chambered in a host of different *handguns* much the same as common handgun calibers can be chambered in the AR rifle. So no, AR-15 rifles are not more powerful than handguns . . . that is simply not true and certainly not a fact. Claiming such to be fact is a scare tactic intended to instill fear in people who do not understand firearms or bullets or ballistics.


----------



## Rigby5 (Jun 2, 2022)

g5000 said:


> There are voices saying maybe it is time to show the photos of the dead kids who are killed by mass shooters so the public can see just how horrific AR-15s are.  Example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/06/01/uvalde-mass-shootings-graphic-images/
> 
> This was very effective when Emmett Till's mother insisted her son's funeral be an open casket and that his body be shown in the papers so everyone could see what the racist assholes who murdered him had done.  The photo of Till's body shocked the public and sentiment began turning against the segregationist South.
> 
> ...


http://
Entirely wrong.
The AR-15 fires a 5.56 mm bullet which is almost half the diameter of a 9 mm pistol bullet, and less than a third the area. 
The velocity of a bullet does not matter really at all, and at close range, an AR-15 will punch a tiny little hole that causes very little harm at al.
The ONLY time an AR-15 causes a lot of damage, is when it is long range and slowed down enough so that it tumbles.
Only when it tumbles, does it do a lot of damage, because then it gets much wider and can transmit more energy to the tissue.

Historically the whole point of moving to the .223 caliber bullet of the AR is that it is almost never lethal.
The research was done to show that wounding takes many more people off the line than killing, because it takes 7 people to care for any 1 wounded.
And all the statistics prove that.
The .223 bullet if vastly LESS deadly than the .308 or .30-06 as used in WWII.

As far as actual use goes, over 99.8% of those killed by firearms in the US, as killed by pistols.
ARs are almost never used, and when they are used, it tends to be a mass shooting of strangers by someone intent on suicide instead of murder.


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Jun 2, 2022)

While we're doing that we can show pictures of aborted babies that have been murdered.


----------



## Rigby5 (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Can't pull on emotive strings, if you don't care about large holes in children. So I guess  you're immune.



A 9 mm pistol will punch holes 3 times larger than a tiny little 5.56 mm of an AR-15.
The opening post was just silly, things like "cavitation" do NOT occur.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 2, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Is there a point to all of this?


That conservatives are cowards who fear facts and the truth, such as a rifle/carbine chambered in a round with a MV in excess of 3200 fps and the effect that round has on the human body.

But conservatives’ fear is unwarranted – AR 15s won’t be banned, the same for 30 round magazines, nor should they be; bans don’t work and represent government excess and overreach.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 2, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Shrugs end game is gun confiscation if you really gave a shit there were be demands to arm teachers and have armed security in all schools other than that I don't give a shit about your fack feelings.


This is a lie.

Guns aren’t going to be ‘confiscated.’

And the notion of ‘arming teachers’ is as idiotic as it is disastrous – teachers with guns will only result in more children being killed.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 2, 2022)

DarthTrader said:


> Nobody uses holocaust images to ban guns. But the holocaust couldn't have happened without guns. And ironically would probably not have happened had the Jews had guns.


Wrong.









						The Hitler gun control lie
					

Gun rights activists who cite the dictator as a reason against gun control have their history dangerously wrong




					www.salon.com


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 2, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> And I will tell you to go to hell to blame those who didn't do this.  You want to punish us for the sins of others.
> 
> Let me make this crystal clear to you............SCREW YOU.


The only thing crystal clear is how idiotic this post is.

No one wants to ‘punish’ gun owners.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> You reveal your utter lack of morality and basic human qualities.
> 
> About Large holes in children: Huh? Did someone say something?
> 
> ...


I am immune to your pathetic appeals to emotion.  

I am a person who values liberty.  The only means of protecting liberty is threat of force.

THAT IS A FACT and it is dispassionate, unaffected by your attempt to shame us with your croc tears.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 2, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> I am immune to your pathetic appeals to emotion.
> 
> I am a person who values liberty.  The only means of protecting liberty is threat of force.
> 
> THAT IS A FACT and it is dispassionate, unaffected by your attempt to shame us with your croc tears.


If conservatives were smart, they’d acknowledge the facts concerning AR 15s and address the thread topic.

But conservatives are smart.

Instead of addressing the thread topic, they start with ridiculous lies about guns being ‘confiscated’ when no such thing was mentioned in the OP, confirming just how idiotic and dishonest conservatives truly are.


----------



## OKTexas (Jun 3, 2022)

g5000 said:


> There are voices saying maybe it is time to show the photos of the dead kids who are killed by mass shooters so the public can see just how horrific AR-15s are.  Example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/06/01/uvalde-mass-shootings-graphic-images/
> 
> This was very effective when Emmett Till's mother insisted her son's funeral be an open casket and that his body be shown in the papers so everyone could see what the racist assholes who murdered him had done.  The photo of Till's body shocked the public and sentiment began turning against the segregationist South.
> 
> ...




Thanks for proving the value of the AR for self defense. Stopping power is important.

.

.


----------



## Care4all (Jun 3, 2022)

night_son said:


> No, it is not a fact. One should not be forced to delve into the gory details to disprove such fiction, nor should such deception be disseminated into the minds of the American people with the clear motivation to terrify them into surrendering additional freedom or rights in exchange for a sense of blatantly false security.
> 
> Laymen tend to prop themselves up on widely speculated generalizations about a great many things indeed. To a laymen, concerning firearms, the large or longer the weapon the more powerful it must be. To a laymen, concerning bullet calibers, the longer the bullet the more deadly it must be. To a laymen, regarding AR platform rifles, they are chambered only in one caliber; the laymen does not know which caliber this is exactly or its capabilities, only that the military has used it for many years so it must be the most lethal caliber ever invented. To a laymen, handguns are useless for combat and only rifles can effectively kill scores of people on the battlefield. Lastly, to a laymen bullets in all AR caliber chamberings are the same shape, weight, and composition as those issued to and in use by our military forces.
> 
> ...


Wow!  That was pretty informative, though as a novice, I would need to read it a few more times to understand it all!

But I still don't think the emergency room doctor is lying when talking about the victims brought in to the ER from an AR 15 Type mass shooting, vs. the normal, every day gunshot wound victims that roll in to the ER nightly, after midnight from gang violence, or an armed robbery, or domestic violence....

And the psyche involved with these young men, and for the lack of a better word....beloved assault weapons, and chat room connections, and live streaming the horrible murders, and copycatting the previous mass murderer to one up them etc....

is a real problem, that can't continue to be ignored.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 3, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> If conservatives were smart, they’d acknowledge the facts concerning AR 15s and address the thread topic.
> 
> But conservatives are smart.
> 
> Instead of addressing the thread topic, they start with ridiculous lies about guns being ‘confiscated’ when no such thing was mentioned in the OP, confirming just how idiotic and dishonest conservatives truly are.


Are you seeing what dictator Trudy just did in Canada?

They are come for our guns.  You can lie to yourself all you want.  

WE WILL GIVE NOT ONE INCE!!!!!!


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> That conservatives are cowards who fear facts and the truth, such as a rifle/carbine chambered in a round with a MV in excess of 3200 fps and the effect that round has on the human body.
> 
> But conservatives’ fear is unwarranted – AR 15s won’t be banned, the same for 30 round magazines, nor should they be; bans don’t work and represent government excess and overreach.



So, considering all of that, what would you suggest as a solution?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

g5000 said:


> There are voices saying maybe it is time to show the photos of the dead kids who are killed by mass shooters so the public can see just how horrific AR-15s are.  Example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/06/01/uvalde-mass-shootings-graphic-images/
> 
> This was very effective when Emmett Till's mother insisted her son's funeral be an open casket and that his body be shown in the papers so everyone could see what the racist assholes who murdered him had done.  The photo of Till's body shocked the public and sentiment began turning against the segregationist South.
> 
> ...


You're a bunch of fucking ghouls trying to use these dead kids as prop's in a never ending campaign to deprive the law abiding of their 2nd Amendment Rights.

Utterly disgusting.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> That conservatives are cowards who fear facts and the truth, such as a rifle/carbine chambered in a round with a MV in excess of 3200 fps and the effect that round has on the human body.
> 
> But conservatives’ fear is unwarranted – AR 15s won’t be banned, the same for 30 round magazines, nor should they be; bans don’t work and represent government excess and overreach.


You're lying out of your ass, as a group we're far better versed in terminal ballistics than you folks every will be.

I could line up 10 people standing back to front and with a single shot from any of my 30 caliber or larger cartridges pass a bullet through each of them consecutively with enough energy remaining to kill a deer standing behind them.

This just just more blood and gore being peddled by anti gun zealots who don't know the first thing about the firearms they are trying to ban.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

g5000 said:


> The survival rate from handgun wounds is much higher than the survival rate of AR-15 wounds.
> 
> Simple fact.


You should then be able to provide statistics supporting that claim including figures as to where they are struck in the body with both for any sort of honest comparisons to be made.

They would also have to be made with the same type of bullet IE JHP, RNFP, or non expanding military ball ammo and with similar impact velocities.


----------



## SavannahMann (Jun 3, 2022)

Couchpotato said:


> Yes.   Even though long guns writ large (not just the AR platform but all rifles combined) account for less than 3 percent of all murders committed via firearm it's worse somehow because of how it looks.    I guess that fits in with "assault weapons" are bad because they look scary mantra.    Im pretty sure the dead could care less if they were shot with an AR, 9mm or bashed over the head with a 2x4.



It is a question of lethality and damage. 









						People Kill People. But the Bullets Seem to Matter. (Published 2019)
					

Handgun caliber has been getting bigger over recent decades, even as murder rates have fallen. New research suggests that if the guns had stayed the same, homicides would have declined even more.




					www.nytimes.com
				




This study does focus on handguns. But if you look at the graphs you see a trend. The more powerful the bullet, the greater the likelihood of death. 

For example. A 9MM the odds of dying are about 57%. For a .357 Magnum, the odds of death increase to 72%. 

I went with those two because they are essentially the same bullet. A .357 Magnum is about 9.05 MM. it weighs about one grain more than the 9 MM round. It just travels a lot faster and does a lot more damage when it hits. 

Now the study doesn’t include rifle rounds. But we can draw some conclusions from the available data. That is that the more powerful rounds are more deadly. 

This matters to the victims. A better chance at survival. It gives the medical people a fighting chance to save your life if you are shot. 

I’ve said for years if we get rid of the semi auto rifles the really dangerous people will start using even bigger calibers in proper long guns. A hunting rifle chambered for the old 30.06 will do a lot more damage than a .223 REM round. 

A shotgun for that matter will be even more deadly since the victim is hit with multiple projectiles at once. A full load of buckshot would be as if the baddie dumped a magazine from a .32 cal pocket pistol into the victim.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 3, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> The only thing crystal clear is how idiotic this post is.
> 
> No one wants to ‘punish’ gun owners.


BS


----------



## tshrimp (Jun 3, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Is there a point to all of this?


Summary. He wants the government to take your guns.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 3, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> This is a lie.
> 
> Guns aren’t going to be ‘confiscated.’
> 
> And the notion of ‘arming teachers’ is as idiotic as it is disastrous – teachers with guns will only result in more children being killed.


Stop lying


----------



## BluesLegend (Jun 3, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Stop lying


Lying is what they do.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 3, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> Are you seeing what dictator Trudy just did in Canada?
> 
> They are come for our guns.  You can lie to yourself all you want.
> 
> WE WILL GIVE NOT ONE INCE!!!!!!


Both are fucking idiots.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> It is a question of lethality and damage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your odds of dying are much more dependent on where you are hit rather that what you are hit with.

These folks don't even know what they don't know and aren't willing to listen or learn.

Handguns are a far bigger issue when it comes to all sorts of violent crime and are used about half the time in mass shootings as well.

That being the case if they do manage to ban "Assault Rifles" we know handguns will immediately follow.

AW's are seen as the low hanging fruit because they are scary to anti gun idiots that don't know jack about guns and ballistics but since the early seventies the real target has always been handguns.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> The only thing crystal clear is how idiotic this post is.
> 
> No one wants to ‘punish’ gun owners.


Then why is it that all of the solutions proposed by democrats focus on infringing the rights of the law abiding rather than focusing on the criminals and those likely to commit such shootings?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 3, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> I didn't say any of that, you infered.  I simply made a factual statement about how the emotive is the primary tool in politics.  I also never said it was only one party that uses the emotive, in fact the emotive approach makes up at least 80% of all politics.


Democrats base their beliefs on emotions not Republicans. So please stop saying both parties do it.


----------



## SavannahMann (Jun 3, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Your odds of dying are much more dependent on where you are hit rather that what you are hit with.
> 
> These folks don't even know what they don't know and aren't willing to listen or learn.
> 
> ...



There are four ways in which a bullet kills. 

1) Instant kill. That means the bullet hits the head and ends the brain or the heart. Yes it could hit the spine and sever the ability to send signals to the heart and lungs. But instant kill is actually hard to manage. 

2) Exsanguination. This is where the body runs out of blood. The victim bleeds to death. Greater tissue damage coupled with bigger or more holes speeds this process. 

3) Suffocation. The individuals lungs are destroyed or damaged sufficiently that they do not receive enough Oxygen. Death is the result. A “Sucking Chest Wound” will result in this sort of death as an example. 

4) All others. The above deaths can be planned for. It is why we tell people to aim Center Mass. the odds of a wound sufficient to kill using those is more likely. 

All others is the rest of the things. The things you can’t plan for. Shock, a bit of bone or fat getting into the blood stream and resulting in a blockage causing a heart attack or stroke. Lead from the bullet causing lead poisoning. The possible but unlikely scenarios. 

The point of the article I posted was that your odds of dying go up with larger more powerful cartridges. Let’s take the 9 MM versus .357 again. The same wound with the two rounds is very different. 

First. The Magnum will have greater penetration. That means more destroyed tissue and greater flow of blood from those destroyed tissue. Even missing the head or heart is likely to be fatal. 

The Statistics in the article bear that out. 72% of those shot with a .357 died. While only 57% of those shot with a 9 MM died. 

Now I can link to other articles and example videos. And in the end you will be right that it matters where you are hit. But it is also true that it matters what you are hit with. 

I selected my weapons and calibers because I wanted as close as I could get to a doubling. A .357 is not quite twice as powerful as a 9 MM. round. A .223/5.56 is not quite twice as powerful as the .357. The 30.06 is not quite twice as powerful as the .223. 

But each one is a step up. A really big step.


----------



## iceberg (Jun 3, 2022)

g5000 said:


> _Compare the damage an AR-15 and a 9mm handgun can do to the human body: “One looks like a grenade went off in there,” says Peter Rhee, a trauma surgeon at the University of Arizona. “The other looks like a bad knife cut.”_


A bad knife cut? Biden said a 9mm blows a lung out. 

This is why no one takes the left seriously.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Democrats base their beliefs on emotions not Republicans. So please stop saying both parties do it.


I love self rationalization.......  It's sooooo predictable and sooooo funny......


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 3, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> I love self rationalization.......  It's sooooo predictable and sooooo funny......


It's a fact democrats go with emotions republicans don't


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> It's a fact democrats go with emotions republicans don't


Oh I'm quite sure you completely convinced yourself of that.  I guess no republican has ever put out an attack ad........  Never in the entire history of the party........  Republicans don't generalize, stereotype and diminish their opponents?


----------



## TNHarley (Jun 3, 2022)

ummm hollow points?
What a stupid thread based on research by the ignorant.
Another fantastic failure from our resident authoritarian reagan conservative!
Hey jackass, after we ban ARs, are we going to compare knife wounds to hand guns? 
You give those fuckers an inch, and they will take a mile. And your faggot ass just walks right into the rabbit hole.


----------



## marvin martian (Jun 3, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Is there a point to all of this?



Control and tyranny. As always.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> And the notion of ‘arming teachers’ is as idiotic as it is disastrous – teachers with guns will only result in more children being killed.



Why do you believe that?


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Your odds of dying are much more dependent on where you are hit rather that what you are hit with.



The .22 caliber was a favorite of the mob for hits...


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 3, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> Oh I'm quite sure you completely convinced yourself of that.  I guess no republican has ever put out an attack ad........  Never in the entire history of the party........  Republicans don't generalize, stereotype and diminish their opponents?


Do you understand what emotions mean? Democrats are the only ones I know who use emotions to guide them. Republicans calculate what will happen A+B=C. Democrats I feel we must do something anything just to show we did something. Democrats push control of an item without addressing the issue.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 3, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> A 9 mm pistol will punch holes 3 times larger than a tiny little 5.56 mm of an AR-15.
> The opening post was just silly, things like "cavitation" do NOT occur.


Wrong, seek attention elsewhere


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 3, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> You're a bunch of fucking ghouls trying to use these dead kids as prop's in a never ending campaign to deprive the law abiding of their 2nd Amendment Rights.
> 
> Utterly disgusting.


Transparent, predictable, reflexive recoil by the gun humpers


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Do you understand what emotions mean? Democrats are the only ones I know who use emotions to guide them. Republicans calculate what will happen A+B=C. Democrats I feel we must do something anything just to show we did something. Democrats push control of an item without addressing the issue.


If that's what helps you sleep at night..........  God I love partisan hacks, you all write my comedy for me. 
Here's the basics, it works on all levels of our existence:





Now take this and apply it to politics..........  It's normal, built into our DNA but it can be overcome.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 3, 2022)

TNHarley said:


> ummm hollow points?
> What a stupid thread based on research by the ignorant.
> Another fantastic failure from our resident authoritarian reagan conservative!
> Hey jackass, after we ban ARs, are we going to compare knife wounds to hand guns?
> You give those fuckers an inch, and they will take a mile. And your faggot ass just walks right into the rabbit hole.


Well, maybe you are too dense and rabid to be counted.on for anything resembling  "an idea", but there are other options besides banning all AR rifles. I doubt we can get you to stop screeching and flinging your own poo long enough to participate. So stfu and step aside.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 3, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> BS


It's idiotic and a lie.

No one wants to 'punish' gun owners.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 3, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> A 9 mm pistol will punch holes 3 times larger than a tiny little 5.56 mm of an AR-15.
> The opening post was just silly, things like "cavitation" do NOT occur.


This is a lie, both ignorant and wrong. 

It's the speed of the bullet, not its size.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 3, 2022)

TNHarley said:


> ummm hollow points?
> What a stupid thread based on research by the ignorant.
> Another fantastic failure from our resident authoritarian reagan conservative!
> Hey jackass, after we ban ARs, are we going to compare knife wounds to hand guns?
> You give those fuckers an inch, and they will take a mile. And your faggot ass just walks right into the rabbit hole.


Another idiotic lie from the right. 

AR 15s aren't going to be banned.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Transparent, predictable, reflexive recoil by the gun humpers


Simply the unvarnished truth.  Wear it with pride.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Another idiotic lie from the right.
> 
> AR 15s aren't going to be banned.


The minute we stop defending our 2nd Amendment rights they certainly would be.

Don't pretend that isn't the goal.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> This is a lie, both ignorant and wrong.
> 
> It's the speed of the bullet, not its size.


It's both numb nuts.

Fill two one gallon jugs with jello and let it set in a freezer over night.

Using the same weight bullets fired at the same velocity, one being a JHP and the other standard FMJ shoot one shot into each of the jugs.

The JHP does exponentially more damage than the FMJ.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> A+B=C. Democrats I feel we must do something anything just to show we did something. Democrats push control of an item without addressing the issue.


Which is exactly why we should ever pass such a bill immediately following a tragedy like this shooting.

One cannot be consumed with emotion and at the same time think and act rationally and dispassionately.


----------



## Quasar44 (Jun 3, 2022)

ARs kill very few each year 

Most deaths are from pistols


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Jun 3, 2022)

g5000 said:


> There are voices saying maybe it is time to show the photos of the dead kids who are killed by mass shooters so the public can see just how horrific AR-15s are.  Example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/06/01/uvalde-mass-shootings-graphic-images/
> 
> This was very effective when Emmett Till's mother insisted her son's funeral be an open casket and that his body be shown in the papers so everyone could see what the racist assholes who murdered him had done.  The photo of Till's body shocked the public and sentiment began turning against the segregationist South.
> 
> ...


Are you trying to say that bullets should not actually kill anyone?  Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of using a gun in the first place?   Sorry.  If I must use a gun to protect myself I want one to BLOW THE BASTARD IN HALF.


----------



## marvin martian (Jun 3, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> AR 15s aren't going to be banned.



You're right about that, but not because you fascists aren't going to try.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 3, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Simply the unvarnished truth.  Wear it with pride.


Yes, I speak to your motivations for saying it. Duh. I always have to explain this simple idea to you "I'm not saying, I'm just saying" dog whistle addicts.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 3, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> This is a lie, both ignorant and wrong.
> 
> It's the speed of the bullet, not its size.


Now shut the fuck up


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 3, 2022)

marvin martian said:


> You're right about that, but not because you fascists aren't going to try.


They will try but fail.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 3, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> If that's what helps you sleep at night..........  God I love partisan hacks, you all write my comedy for me.
> Here's the basics, it works on all levels of our existence:
> 
> 
> ...


You have it totally ass backwards. Republicans aren't pushing bans on firearms because they are emotional charged it's the democrats that are emotionally motivated. And when you use an emotion to try and fix a problem it always turns out wrong. But you can do that fence sitting high above the rest of us and call everybody partisan. Usually fence sitters get split in half or at least splinters in their ass.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> You have it totally ass backwards. Republicans aren't pushing bans on firearms because they are emotional charged it's the democrats that are emotionally motivated. And when you use an emotion to try and fix a problem it always turns out wrong. But you can do that fence sitting high above the rest of us and call everybody partisan. Usually fence sitters get split in half or at least splinters in their ass.


Ah yes, I've triggered the self justification attack.  That was expected.  People are so predictable.  That's okay, have a cookie and soon you'll feel right as rain because you don't believe any of this, it's all a fairy tale and you're really not human so human norms are beyond you.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 3, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> Ah yes, I've triggered the self justification attack.  That was expected.  People are so predictable.  That's okay, have a cookie and soon you'll feel right as rain because you don't believe any of this, it's all a fairy tale and you're really not human so human norms are beyond you.


You triggered nothing but the truth. Fence sitters always sit high as if they are better than the rest. But eventually they split in half.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> You triggered nothing but the truth. Fence sitters always sit high as if they are better than the rest. But eventually they split in half.


Explaining proven human emotive driven cognitive distortion to the untrained is like explaining nuclear physics to a frog.........  And how does all this make me a fence sitter?  I mean except in your emotive rationalizations.......


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 3, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> Explaining proven human emotive driven cognitive distortion to the untrained is like explaining nuclear physics to a frog.........  And how does all this make me a fence sitter?  I mean except in your emotive rationalizations.......


Again wrong I contend that you're just projecting.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Again wrong I contend that you're just projecting.


Your reality is yours.  It's self created.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 3, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> Your reality is yours.  It's self created.


And likewise you have your own.


----------



## BluesLegend (Jun 3, 2022)

We need arms to protect ourselves from the Dem mobs who assault, rape, murder, burn, loot, carjack and shoplift with immunity.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> And likewise you have your own.


Yeah but mine's based in provable human science, yours.........  Partial self delusion, based on emotive influences, internal and external.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 3, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> Yeah but mines based in provable human science, yours.........  Self delusion.


The science that says a man is a woman? The science that says masks work? You live in your own little world reality moves on.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> The science that says a man is a woman? The science that says masks work? You live in your own little world reality moves on.


We're not talking about that, that's something completely different.  We're talking about human psychology and motivation.  You'd be amazed what we have learned in the last 50 years......


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 3, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> We're not talking about that, that's something completely different.  We're talking about human psychology and motivation.


You're talking science so was I.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> You're talking science so was I.


BTW, I never once said you didn't have facts, I simply stated the FACT that we humans are highly emotive creatures and that affects our reasoning and perceptions much more than we want to believe.  And that politicians, et al (regardless of party) utilize this to trigger an emotive response, usually fear of the opposition.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 3, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> BTW, I never once said you didn't have facts, I simply stated the FACT that we humans are highly emotive creatures and that affects our reasoning and perceptions much more than we want to believe.  And that politicians, et al (regardless of party) utilize this to trigger an emotive response, usually fear of the opposition.


Ironically, the gun humpers are more guilty of this.

"My rights my right my rights! The gubmint and gun grabbers want to take all the guns! I saw a movie where only police had guns : Schindler List! Look at my beatiful chidlren holding guns on my christmas card!""

If pictures of dead children with large holes in them is a "stronger emotional appeal", then that is a sign we are NOT lost as a country. 

If not, then it demonstrates the immorality of the country and the backwards morality of the gun humpers. 

Looks like you picked your side.... on page 1 of the thread ...


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Ironically, the gun humpers are more guilty of this.
> 
> "My rights my right my rights! The gubmint and gun grabbers want to take all the guns! I saw a movie where only police had guns : Schindler List! Look at my beatiful chidlren holding guns on my christmas card!""
> 
> ...


The irony with you is so thick one would need a chain saw to cut it.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 3, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> The irony with you is so thick one would need a chain saw to cut it.


That's not irony, genius. That is granting you a point for the sake of discussion. This type of thing often happens, when mature adults talk.

But you can always spot the less mature adults, because they think they just caught a spider in ther web, when really the other person is just granting them a point to show how wrong they still are, even after the point is granted. 

Which one you are is pretty clear. Also, you dodged like a little sissy.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> That's not irony, genius. That is granting you a point for the sake of discussion. This type of thing often happens, when mature adults talk.
> 
> But you can always spot the less mature adults, because they think they just caught a spider in ther web, when really the other person is just granting them a point to show how wrong they still are, even after the point is granted.
> 
> Which one you are is pretty clear. Also, you dodged like a little sissy.


The irony is still getting thicker........  Many of them are partisan clowns, you've erased all doubt.  Just go back and look at what you stated, "you granted me a point" but only to use it to attack "gun humpers".  all partisan hacks are nothing but two peas on opposite ends of the pod.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 3, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> The irony is still getting thicker........  Many of them are partisan clowns, you've erased all doubt.  Just go back and look at what you stated, "you granted me a point" but only to use it to attack "gun humpers".  all partisan hacks are nothing but two peas on opposite ends of the pod.


Correct, gun humpers. The fact that you avoided all the points and chose to whine about this is the actual irony of an insulting prick pretending to cry about a mocking epithet, which action itself arises from low ability to handle meeting strong counterpoint.


----------



## DBA (Jun 3, 2022)

g5000 said:


> _Compare the damage an AR-15 and a 9mm handgun can do to the human body: “One looks like a grenade went off in there,” says Peter Rhee, a trauma surgeon at the University of Arizona. “The other looks like a bad knife cut.”
> 
> [snip]
> 
> ...



Sounds to me like somebody doesn't know what a hollow point .45 will do to a person.  Yes, a .556 or .223 round from an AR has more velocity than a .45 ACP or .45 Auto, however, both are equally damaging depending on the type of ammo used and or course the distant they are fired from. Have you ever seen anything shot at close range with a 12-gauge shotgun with 00 or 000 buck shot?  It blows a huge hole in flesh.  Seriously, lefties who don't know which end of the gun to hold should hold off on spouting off about this kind of stuff.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Correct, gun humpers. The fact that you avoided all the points and chose to whine about this is the actual irony of an insulting prick pretending to cry about a mocking epithet, which action itself arises from low ability to handle meeting strong counterpoint.


Strong counterpoint..........  That's what you call it. 
You get more pathetic with each post, but I expected that. 


Oh and go ahead, I'll let you get the last word in if it's that important to you.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 3, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> Strong counterpoint..........  That's what you call it.
> You get more pathetic with each post, but I expected that.
> 
> 
> Oh and go ahead, I'll let you get the last word in if it's that important to you.


You still can't address my points. Pretty sad, dude. We easily see who is operating on emotion, and who is operating on intellect, of the two of us.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> You still can't address my points. Pretty sad, dude. We easily see who is operating on emotion, and who is operating on intellect, of the two of us.


Tag, you're it!!


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 3, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> BTW, I never once said you didn't have facts, I simply stated the FACT that we humans are highly emotive creatures and that affects our reasoning and perceptions much more than we want to believe.  And that politicians, et al (regardless of party) utilize this to trigger an emotive response, usually fear of the opposition.


I base my views and beliefs on the calculated out come. Democrats use their emotions.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 3, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> Tag, you're it!!


You can't tag anyone, when you are retreating at a full sprint.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> You can't tag anyone, when you are retreating at a full sprint.


Tag, you're it..........

(Bet you're too big of a self centered asshole to get it)


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> I base my views and beliefs on the calculated out come. Democrats use their emotions.


If you say so.........  Heck I believe that you wholeheartedly believe that.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 3, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> Tag, you're it..........
> 
> (Bet you're too big of a self centered asshole to get it)


Uh, trolls have been doing that since the AOL chat room days of the 90s. You aren't clever or original.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Uh, trolls have been doing that since the AOL chat room days of the 90s. You aren't clever or original.


You couldn't be more clueless if you tried.  Are those blinders removable or are they surgically attached?


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 3, 2022)

g5000 said:


> There are voices saying maybe it is time to show the photos of the dead kids who are killed by mass shooters so the public can see just how horrific AR-15s are.  Example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/06/01/uvalde-mass-shootings-graphic-images/
> 
> This was very effective when Emmett Till's mother insisted her son's funeral be an open casket and that his body be shown in the papers so everyone could see what the racist assholes who murdered him had done.  The photo of Till's body shocked the public and sentiment began turning against the segregationist South.
> 
> ...



Dipshit…….any rifle will do bad things to a human body…….the 5.56 or .22 is smaller than other rifle rounds….wait till he sees what a real rifle will do..,,,,


What we should do is show babies murdered in abortions….


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 3, 2022)

g5000 said:


> _In a typical handgun injury, which I diagnose almost daily, a bullet leaves a laceration through an organ such as the liver. To a radiologist, it appears as a linear, thin, gray bullet track through the organ. There may be bleeding and some bullet fragments.
> 
> I was looking at a CT scan of one of the mass-shooting victims from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, who had been brought to the trauma center during my call shift. The organ looked like an overripe melon smashed by a sledgehammer, and was bleeding extensively. How could a gunshot wound have caused this much damage?
> 
> ...



Imagine if he shot them with a shotgun at that range…you dumb ass…


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 3, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> If you say so.........  Heck I believe that you wholeheartedly believe that.


Showing your emotions I see.cant get your way


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 3, 2022)

g5000 said:


> Was that a sentence?
> 
> As for "all we need to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun", that theory has been completely blown out of the  water.  The police at Parkland and in Uvalde completely failed to stop the bad guys with guns.
> 
> Only an idiot would continue to subscribe to this idiotic bullshit disastrous idea.



Wow….you guys are such simpletons…….

Government failed……this woman did not…..

The same week government failed, this woman…with her concealed carry handgun stopped nother mass public shooter who also had an AR-15 rifle…..and she stopped him a no killed him…

A good guy with a gun….you idiot…









						Woman credited with stopping mass shooting at apartment complex in West Virginia
					

Police say a woman's actions may have prevented a mass casualty event following an altercation about a man speeding through a neighborhood.




					www.wral.com


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 3, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Imagine if he shot them with a shotgun at that range…you dumb ass…


The ballistics change in a 9mm when fired from a carbine a little over 200 ft per second more. Which puts it close to the same speed as 556 NATO


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 3, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> And even when the good guys DO stop the bad guys, mass murder has almost always already occurred .
> 
> The Uvalde cops could have stormed that building, and there would still be a pile of dead children.
> 
> So the entire argument is embarrassing and mind numbigly stupid.



Except for this one…the same week of the school shooting..,.another killer with an AR-15….this time a woman with a concealed carry handgun killed him…..

You idiot……..









						Woman credited with stopping mass shooting at apartment complex in West Virginia
					

Police say a woman's actions may have prevented a mass casualty event following an altercation about a man speeding through a neighborhood.




					www.wral.com


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 3, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Compelling!
> 
> So, have you manged to stop everyone from talking about the very large holes that ar15 rounds make in children's bodies?
> 
> ...



Do you think that hole is smaller than from a shotgun?  you idiot.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Jun 3, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> You realize that you can't put a .223 through a 9mm, right?


Well, you could if you expended enough effort.  You could design a sabot to fit a 5.56mm projectile to a 9mm barrel.  A 9mm hollow point would probably do more damage and a Glaser Safety Slug would certainly do more damage.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 3, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Ironically, the gun humpers are more guilty of this.
> 
> "My rights my right my rights! The gubmint and gun grabbers want to take all the guns! I saw a movie where only police had guns : Schindler List! Look at my beatiful chidlren holding guns on my christmas card!""
> 
> ...



Dittos………we can show the bodies of babies murdered in abortions…….


----------



## AZrailwhale (Jun 3, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> The 7.62x39 is the quintessential cop killer because anything but level 4 body armor won't stop it.  You should see the damage that cartridge does compared to a 5.56.


7.62mm NATO will punch through plates the Russian round will bounce off of.  Funny, nobody is trying to ban M-1As.  California has limited them to five round magazines.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Showing your emotions I see.cant get your way


I'm sorry.  I forgot I was talking to a perfect being.  My bad.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Jun 3, 2022)

blackhawk said:


> The point seems to be if we just get rid of the AR-15 mass shootings will end. Of course you could go into an elementary school class room with a 357 or 44 magnum and a couple of speed loaders and do the same type of damage. People can go back fourth on the gun used in mass shootings for as long as they like until we start focusing on what is driving people to these extremes the problem won't get solved.


Or you could go whole hog and go with a Saiga 12 gauge with a couple of 20 round drum magazines.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 3, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> I'm sorry.  I forgot I was talking to a perfect being.  My bad.


No just calculating


----------



## AZrailwhale (Jun 3, 2022)

g5000 said:


> You can't have a nuke because of others, either.
> 
> Or hand grenades.
> 
> Or a tank.


You CAN own hand grenades and tanks.  You can even legally drive tanks on the street if they are licensed and have rubber track pads.  You do need a destructive device license to own hand grenades.


----------



## Sandy Shanks (Jun 3, 2022)

Sandy Shanks said:


> *Actually, there have been 233 mass shootings this year, 20 mass shootings since the slaughter of children and teachers in Uvalde.*


That statement was made yesterday. No doubt the figures have been updated.

*As police officers stood outside a locked fourth-grade classroom, a student trapped inside with the man shooting at her classmates dialed 911. She was in Room 112, she whispered to the dispatcher. Seven minutes later, she called again. There were multiple students dead, she said. The child hung up and called several more times, her words growing increasingly desperate and grim. “Please send police now,” she said in one of the final 911 recordings — over 40 minutes after her initial call.* -- The _Post_

CNN Reports, "President Joe Biden tried to turn a string of horrific mass shootings into momentum Thursday night, imploring 10 Republican senators to join Democrats on some – any – new gun-related legislation.

"The speech, which compared dead American children to US casualties in war, came on a night when fellow Democrats on a House committee passed a string of proposals that most Americans might support but* have no chance of passing through a GOP blockade in the Senate. The National Rifle Association immediately rejected his proposals*, 

"Biden made clear he’s willing to accept far less than the measures he prefers – an assault weapons ban – in exchange for real federal action. In the speech, he laid out some main proposals: banning assault weapons and high-capacity magazines or raising the age to purchase them to 21, strengthening background checks, enacting safe storage and red flag laws, repealing the immunity that protects gun manufacturers from liability and addressing the mental health crisis."

This is all in vain and our President knows it.

The forum's Republicans remain completely silent on the issue.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Jun 3, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Then why don't mass murderers use them?
> 
> Why don't more people own them?
> 
> ...


I could build twenty hand grenades from scratch for a couple of hundred dollars.  They would be more effective than normal military issue because I wouldn't have to worry about safe storage.  A hand grenade is a simple device, a small amount of explosive (black powder or even firecrackers will do) something for fragmentation (anything from broken glass to screws and nails works) and a fuze or detonator.  With black powder some kind of fuze like model rocket fuze works just fine. Finally something to contain the components, a food or soda can would work just fine.  It's all readily available without a license in most places.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> No just calculating


You missed the point but that's okay.  Guess it never occurred to you that your calculating has a strong chance of being tainted by your emotions, likes and dislikes.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Jun 3, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> The .22 caliber was a favorite of the mob for hits...


The round is quiet, it doesn't make much of a mess and the hitter can buy them anywhere, they are essentially untraceable except by ballistics.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Jun 3, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> This is a lie, both ignorant and wrong.
> 
> It's the speed of the bullet, not its size.


It's a combination of both. Velocity time mass.  A .45 ACP is a big, slow round but it delivers massive damage due mostly to shock.  A .50 BMG round is a huge, high velocity round that destroys whatever it hits.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 3, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Dipshit…….any rifle will do bad things to a human body…….the 5.56 or .22 is smaller than other rifle rounds….wait till he sees what a real rifle will do..,,,,
> 
> 
> What we should do is show babies murdered in abortions….


You do.

All the time, dipshit


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 3, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> I could build twenty hand grenades from scratch for a couple of hundred dollars.


Neat!

Then why aren't we having a bunch of hand grenade mass murders?

You can dodge all day, but the questions remain.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 3, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> You missed the point but that's okay.  Guess it never occurred to you that your calculating has a strong chance of being tainted by your emotions, likes and dislikes.


How is a cold heart calculating person have emotions?


----------



## AZrailwhale (Jun 3, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Neat!
> 
> Then why aren't we having a bunch of hand grenade mass murders?
> 
> You can dodge all day, but the questions remain.


Because I have a skill set that most mass-murderers lack.  But it does happen.  The Boston Marathon and the Aurora Colorado murderers both used, or intended to use improvised bombs.  They are easy to build if you have the skill set and horribly effective.  I could kill hundreds in one event and be far away when the devices detonated.  A simple grenade like I described could kill and maim anywhere from a dozen to a hundred people depending on where it was detonated and size.  A soda can sized one could easily do a dozen, a coffee can sized one could easily do a hundred.  What mass murders don’t understand is how lethal even a small explosive device can be.  Also setting off an explosive charge may lack the visceral pleasure pulling a trigger over and over again gives them.  It’s bang and done.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> How is a cold heart calculating person have emotions?


Because it's normal for all people unless you're a psychopath.  Emotions cover a wide range and unless we're very careful color our thinking based on multiple stimuli, past experience and world view, etc, etc.  Almost all people develop an idea/view/belief then go looking for evidence to corroborate that idea/view/belief, it's called Confirmation Bias and that's the normal thing for us humans to do but not always the best.  One way to get around that instead of looking for confirmation proof look instead to disprove it, if you can't then it's proven.  
Now don't get me wrong, Confirmation Bias is not always a bad thing, we subconsciously use it every day in multiple scenarios, it's part of our hard wired "defense of self" mechanism.
The problem is that in order to properly understand this one at least needs to know what all these mechanisms are and how they work, understand how our emotions often dictate how we see things.  Say someone hands us a rotten apple we typically respond with something like: Ewwww, that's nasty.  That's an emotive response.  Being attracted to or repelled by are both emotive responses and I'm barely scratching the surface of this subject.


----------



## Rigby5 (Jun 3, 2022)

g5000 said:


> The survival rate from handgun wounds is much higher than the survival rate of AR-15 wounds.
> 
> Simple fact.



That is not at all true.
First of all, range matter a whole lot.
At very close range, the .223 is too stable, does not tumble, and just pierces a tiny hole.
It only imparts a lot of energy IF it tumbles, and its spin is too great for that at close range.
Second is that all the .223 ammo is full jacket, and not hollow point.  But pistols are almost all hollow point, and hollow point is like a buzz saw.
It fans open into a large spinning diameter, with sharp blades.
Imagine this spinning at high speed, from a pistol shot.


----------



## Rigby5 (Jun 3, 2022)

g5000 said:


> Was that a sentence?
> 
> As for "all we need to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun", that theory has been completely blown out of the  water.  The police at Parkland and in Uvalde completely failed to stop the bad guys with guns.
> 
> Only an idiot would continue to subscribe to this idiotic bullshit disastrous idea.



Wrong.
If there were a good guy with a camera and electric door lock, or a gun, then these shooting could not have happened.
Since they did happen, we know there was no defense.
There were no police at Parkland or Uvalde, so you are lying.
There was a security at Parkland, but he fled.
If they had and armed teacher or a 2nd backup, it would not have happened.
The idea you can prevent any possible illegal gun sale is just insane.
It can not be done.
That should be obvious since we can't stop drugs and it is drug dealers who would be easy source for guns as well.


----------



## Rigby5 (Jun 3, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Because I have a skill set that most mass-murderers lack.  But it does happen.  The Boston Marathon and the Aurora Colorado murderers both used, or intended to use improvised bombs.  They are easy to build if you have the skill set and horribly effective.  I could kill hundreds in one event and be far away when the devices detonated.  A simple grenade like I described could kill and maim anywhere from a dozen to a hundred people depending on where it was detonated and size.  A soda can sized one could easily do a dozen, a coffee can sized one could easily do a hundred.  What mass murders don’t understand is how lethal even a small explosive device can be.  Also setting off an explosive charge may lack the visceral pleasure pulling a trigger over and over again gives them.  It’s bang and done.



If the bomber were to sneak into the school at night and cause a gas leak as they placed their bombs, they could pretty much wipe out everyone in the entire school.
And worst of all, since there would be no evidence who did it, they could do it over and over again.


----------



## Rigby5 (Jun 3, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> This is a lie, both ignorant and wrong.
> 
> It's the speed of the bullet, not its size.



That is completely ignorant.
What does damage is energy, not speed, and if the bullet is narrow, it just pushes things out of its way, and impart almost no energy at  all.
The size of the bullet is almost entirely the most important things, not only because mass give is more energy, but the wider the bullet the more impact and energy transfer.
Typically accidental shootings in Vietnam with the .223 did almost  no damage at all.  The bullet is way too tiny to transfer much energy, and at close range is spin rate prevent tumbling.
The .223 is about the weakest of all rifles, is in the pistol category as far as damage and lethality, and is so lacking in kill power that is it illegal for deer hunting in about half the states.

Just compare a .44 caliber magnum with the .223.
The .44 magnum has about 1200 foot pounds of muzzle energy.
The .223 has about 1100 foot pounds of muzzle energy.
And the greater diameter of the .44 with make over 4 times the hole and transfer all the energy to the victims, while the .223 will go right through and retain almost all of its energy.


----------



## Rigby5 (Jun 3, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Wrong, seek attention elsewhere



Cavitation implies the movement of mass due to a low pressure area, and a .223 is way too tiny in diameter to be able to cause cavitation.
At long range the .223 has been known to tumble, and that can possibly simulate the effects of a much larger bullet, but is irrelevant for these close range school shootings.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 3, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Because I have a skill set that most mass-murderers lack. But it does happen.


Does it?

Does it happen at a rate of more than one a day, in only one country on earth?

Nope.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 3, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> Cavitation implies the movement of mass due to a low pressure area, and a .223 is way too tiny in diameter to be able to cause cavitation.


Wrong, of course. Stop wasting my time and yours.


----------



## Rigby5 (Jun 3, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Wrong, of course. Stop wasting my time and yours.



Wrong, that is NOT at all cavitation, and ballistic gel is NOT at all like a human being, because we have bones, muscle, tendons, etc, and ballistic gel is just a big soft pile of jello.
The block of ballistic gel is much larger than a person.
In a real person, as close range, the bullet would have gone right through before transferring enough energy.  
And the big hollow in the gel is NOT from cavitation, but bullet tumble.
So they purposely rigged the demonstation to use a long range shot, and did not tell anyone.  A close range shot will not tumble and do that.

Here is ballistic gel with a 9mm and it also have an unrealistic wound channel in soft ballistic gel.





You can see the tiny bullet off to the right, so using that for scale, the would channel looks to be about 7 inches or so, which would never happen in real life.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 3, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> That is completely ignorant.
> What does damage is energy, not speed, and if the bullet is narrow, it just pushes things out of its way, and impart almost no energy at  all.
> The size of the bullet is almost entirely the most important things, not only because mass give is more energy, but the wider the bullet the more impact and energy transfer.
> Typically accidental shootings in Vietnam with the .223 did almost  no damage at all.  The bullet is way too tiny to transfer much energy, and at close range is spin rate prevent tumbling.
> ...


You idiots pay attention.

Rigby5 knows the fuck of which he speaks.** 


_**(perfect grammar for "knows what the fuck he is talking about")_


----------



## Batcat (Jun 4, 2022)

martybegan said:


> Then why does NYC make me wait 3-6 months and pay $500 for a revolver home permit while I can get a rifle much easier?


Why are you living in New York City. 

Move to The Free State of Florida. You don’t need a permit to buy a handgun. There is a three business day waiting period before you can pick it up And in some areas a five day waiting period. There is no gun registration in Florida. 









						Is There a Waiting Period in Florida To Buy a Gun?
					

The State of Florida has a mandatory three-business-day wait for the purchase of a rifle, shotgun, or handgun. However, some counties have extended the waiting period to five business days. Many people think the waiting period is the time it takes to complete the background check, but this is...




					www.carryuniversitytraining.com
				












						NRA-ILA | Florida Gun Laws
					

Florida state gun law guide, news, reference, and summary.




					www.nraila.org
				




You can also get a 7 year concealed weapons permit for $97 + the cost of gun safety class. With that permit you can walk into a gun store and leave with a nice brand new handgun that you can carry concealed. No waiting period. 



			https://www.fdacs.gov/content/download/7438/file/License_Fees.pdf
		


Shortly Florida may go to Constitutional Carry and you will not need a concealed carry permit to carry in public. 









						What does 'constitutional carry' mean and how would it change gun laws in Florida?
					

Florida Gov. DeSantis has said he will sign constitutional carry legislation before his term is over. But what does that mean for Floridians?



					www.tallahassee.com
				




Plus Florida does not have a state income tax or city income tax.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Dipshit…….any rifle will do bad things to a human body…….the 5.56 or .22 is smaller than other rifle rounds….wait till he sees what a real rifle will do..,,,,
> 
> 
> What we should do is show babies murdered in abortions….


This fails as a red herring fallacy.

The topic is handguns vs. AR-15s; where the latter is far more lethal and destructive.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 4, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Yes, I speak to your motivations for saying it. Duh. I always have to explain this simple idea to you "I'm not saying, I'm just saying" dog whistle addicts.


You are a babbling fool who comes to a battle of wits unarmed.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 4, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Now shut the fuck up
> View attachment 653533


You really should familiarize yourself with the energy equation.

Both velocity and diameter play a big part in how much damage is done..

Bullet construction has a bigger impact than either of those.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 4, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> If that's what helps you sleep at night..........  God I love partisan hacks, you all write my comedy for me.
> Here's the basics, it works on all levels of our existence:
> 
> 
> ...


The Constitution and Bill of Rights simply are what they are and say what they say, they are not partisan.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 4, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> You triggered nothing but the truth. Fence sitters always sit high as if they are better than the rest. But eventually they split in half.


Well he did trigger some appropriate replies... .


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 4, 2022)

BluesLegend said:


> We need arms to protect ourselves from the Dem mobs who assault, rape, murder, burn, loot, carjack and shoplift with immunity.


And even more importantly those who would vote away our rights, liberties, and freedoms.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 4, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> Yeah but mine's based in provable human science, yours.........  Partial self delusion, based on emotive influences, internal and external.


Psychology and Psychiatry are both at best very soft sciences and very much more arts since the series that drive both cannot be shown mathematically or by any other means to hold water.

The human mind is far too complex to quantify or explain scientifically.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 4, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Ironically, the gun humpers are more guilty of this.
> 
> "My rights my right my rights! The gubmint and gun grabbers want to take all the guns! I saw a movie where only police had guns : Schindler List! Look at my beatiful chidlren holding guns on my christmas card!""
> 
> ...


Strap it on and be the first man through the door sparky instead of barking on the internet.

This may be how you see yourself.





In reality, however this is how the world sees you.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 4, 2022)

Ringel05 said:


> Because it's normal for all people unless you're a psychopath.  Emotions cover a wide range and unless we're very careful color our thinking based on multiple stimuli, past experience and world view, etc, etc.  Almost all people develop an idea/view/belief then go looking for evidence to corroborate that idea/view/belief, it's called Confirmation Bias and that's the normal thing for us humans to do but not always the best.  One way to get around that instead of looking for confirmation proof look instead to disprove it, if you can't then it's proven.
> Now don't get me wrong, Confirmation Bias is not always a bad thing, we subconsciously use it every day in multiple scenarios, it's part of our hard wired "defense of self" mechanism.
> The problem is that in order to properly understand this one at least needs to know what all these mechanisms are and how they work, understand how our emotions often dictate how we see things.  Say someone hands us a rotten apple we typically respond with something like: Ewwww, that's nasty.  That's an emotive response.  Being attracted to or repelled by are both emotive responses and I'm barely scratching the surface of this subject.


So you're emotional got it.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Wow….you guys are such simpletons…….
> 
> Government failed……this woman did not…..
> 
> ...


Anyone foolish enough to believe the gov't can protect them from every harm probably needs to be removed from the gene pool anyhow.  Waste of resources.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 4, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> The ballistics change in a 9mm when fired from a carbine a little over 200 ft per second more. Which puts it close to the same speed as 556 NATO


No, that would put it at about half the velocity and a third of the energy of the 556 NATO.









						9mm Ballistics - Velocity, Energy & Drop Data
					

An in-depth look at 9mm ballistics. This article includes velocity, energy and bullet drop data for the most popular 9x19 loads in the U.S.




					www.ammunitiontogo.com
				




Put a 180 pointed SP in grampa's old 30-06 though and you can shoot completely through a 5 man stack getting ready to breech your door.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 4, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> No, that would put it at about half the velocity and a third of the energy of the 556 NATO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The carbine rifle length would keep the projectile contained longer and increase the pressure which would increase the velocity it comes out to 200 fps more than a pistol.


----------



## Blues Man (Jun 4, 2022)

g5000 said:


> _In a typical handgun injury, which I diagnose almost daily, a bullet leaves a laceration through an organ such as the liver. To a radiologist, it appears as a linear, thin, gray bullet track through the organ. There may be bleeding and some bullet fragments.
> 
> I was looking at a CT scan of one of the mass-shooting victims from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, who had been brought to the trauma center during my call shift. The organ looked like an overripe melon smashed by a sledgehammer, and was bleeding extensively. How could a gunshot wound have caused this much damage?
> 
> ...


Unless the round is a hollow point


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 4, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> The carbine rifle length would keep the projectile contained longer and increase the pressure which would increase the velocity it comes out to 200 fps more than a pistol.


Which still puts it at about 1/3 the velocity of the 556.  1,300fps vs 3,250fps.

Personally I like the PC carbines for home defense or "classroom defense", I think they are ideal for those applications.

Take a look at the Kriss Vector 10mm PCC's.


----------



## Blues Man (Jun 4, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> No, that would put it at about half the velocity and a third of the energy of the 556 NATO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is never a good comparison between rifles and handguns 

ALL rifles generate higher muzzle velocities because of the longer barrel it's just physics.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 4, 2022)

g5000 said:


> _In a typical handgun injury, which I diagnose almost daily, a bullet leaves a laceration through an organ such as the liver. To a radiologist, it appears as a linear, thin, gray bullet track through the organ. There may be bleeding and some bullet fragments.
> 
> I was looking at a CT scan of one of the mass-shooting victims from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, who had been brought to the trauma center during my call shift. The organ looked like an overripe melon smashed by a sledgehammer, and was bleeding extensively. How could a gunshot wound have caused this much damage?
> 
> ...


BS, any bullet through the liver or spleen is going to cause massive bleeding.

Expanding high velocity rounds certainly cause more tissue damage and hemorrhaging but it's bs to claim that pistol rounds will not cause major bleeding after passing through either of those organs.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 4, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> This fails as a red herring fallacy.
> 
> The topic is handguns vs. AR-15s; where the latter is far more lethal and destructive.




They are not....it all depends on the situation.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 4, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> BS, any bullet through the liver or spleen is going to cause massive bleeding.
> 
> Expanding high velocity rounds certainly cause more tissue damage and hemorrhaging but it's bs to claim that pistol rounds will not cause major bleeding after passing through either of those organs.




The Doctor is an anti-gun fanatic......ask him if he has ever seen the wounds of a shotgun fired at close range...


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> The Doctor is an anti-gun fanatic......ask him if he has ever seen the wounds of a shotgun fired at close range...


Whatever else he is he's a liar and completely lacking any actual understanding of terminal ballistics.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 4, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> The Constitution and Bill of Rights simply are what they are and say what they say, they are not partisan.


I never said they were but I understand that being hyper partisan and all you feel the necessity to defend your position against any attack, real or perceived.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 4, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Psychology and Psychiatry are both at best very soft sciences and very much more arts since the series that drive both cannot be shown mathematically or by any other means to hold water.
> 
> The human mind is far too complex to quantify or explain scientifically.


Welcome to the 2000s...........


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 4, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> So you're emotional got it.


Have a nice life.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 4, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Which still puts it at about 1/3 the velocity of the 556.  1,300fps vs 3,250fps.
> 
> Personally I like the PC carbines for home defense or "classroom defense", I think they are ideal for those applications.
> 
> Take a look at the Kriss Vector 10mm PCC's.


It depends on the round and pistol vs carbine 


			9mm Ballistics Chart | Ballistics 101


----------



## martybegan (Jun 5, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Why are you living in New York City.
> 
> Move to The Free State of Florida. You don’t need a permit to buy a handgun. There is a three business day waiting period before you can pick it up And in some areas a five day waiting period. There is no gun registration in Florida.
> 
> ...



Too much family here to move.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 5, 2022)

martybegan said:


> Too much family here to move.


Perhaps you should plan a family escape from New York.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 5, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> This fails as a red herring fallacy.
> 
> The topic is handguns vs. AR-15s; where the latter is far more lethal and destructive.




At what range?   

You don't know what you are talking about.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Jun 5, 2022)

g5000 said:


> There are voices saying maybe it is time to show the photos of the dead kids who are killed by mass shooters so the public can see just how horrific AR-15s are.  Example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/06/01/uvalde-mass-shootings-graphic-images/
> 
> This was very effective when Emmett Till's mother insisted her son's funeral be an open casket and that his body be shown in the papers so everyone could see what the racist assholes who murdered him had done.  The photo of Till's body shocked the public and sentiment began turning against the segregationist South.
> 
> ...



  There is nothing special about the AR-15, or any other so-called _“assault weapons”_, here.

  Most rifles of all kinds shoot much more powerful rounds, with heavier bullets travelling at higher speeds, compared to pistols.  So, yes, being hit by a bullet from a rifle is going to do quite a bit more damage than being hit by a bullet from a pistol.

  Being run over by a truck is going to hurt you more than being run over by a bicycle.

  And as it happens, the AR-15 fires a round that is not particularly powerful as rifle rounds go.  It's illegal, in many states, to use an AR-15 to hunt deer.  You know why?  It's not powerful enough.  There's too much risk of only injuring the deer, and causing it to suffer needlessly.  A proper deer rifle fires a much more powerful round, that is much more likely to kill the deer quickly and humanely.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Jun 5, 2022)

g5000 said:


> The survival rate from handgun wounds is much higher than the survival rate of AR-15 wounds.
> 
> Simple fact.



  How does that compare to the survival rate from being shot with a 30-06 from a rifle suitable for deer hunting?


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Jun 5, 2022)

Polishprince said:


> When I was a youngster, Lib Control Freaks lost their minds about the "Saturday Night Special" handguns.
> 
> No handgun manufacturer ever advertised their weapons as "Saturday Night Specials" of course, just like they don't advertise "military style assault weapons" either.
> 
> But now no lib today gives a shit about popularly priced handguns.   What gives?



  The original term was _“Nìɡɡеrtоwn Saturday Night Special”_.  It was based on the fear that because they were relatively inexpensive, that certain segments of the population could afford them that those who coined the term did not want to be able to exercise their Second Amendment rights.  The first word of the term, which indicated who it was that they wanted to keep disarmed and vulnerable, was quickly dropped as the term became more widely used.

  The entire intent behind the creation of this phrase, and going after the manufacture of guns so designated, was to restrict the exercise of the Second Amendment to those perceived to be in higher, more affluent classes (and white) who could afford more expensive guns.

  The intent was similar, though less blatantly racist, behind a later similar term, _“junk guns”_, again really of concern only because they were affordable to those that the politicians especially didn't want to be armed.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Jun 5, 2022)

g5000 said:


> The police at Parkland and in Uvalde completely failed to stop the bad guys with guns.



  Only because they were a bunch of fucking cowardly pieces of shit, who, when it came time to do their job, were too chicken to do so.

  It's not a condemnation of the basic concept of a good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun.  It's a condemnation of a bunch of very poor-quality _“good guys”_.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 6, 2022)

g5000 said:


> Was that a sentence?
> 
> As for "all we need to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun", that theory has been completely blown out of the  water.  The police at Parkland and in Uvalde completely failed to stop the bad guys with guns.
> 
> Only an idiot would continue to subscribe to this idiotic bullshit disastrous idea.



*The police at Parkland and in Uvalde completely failed to stop the bad guys with guns.*

*Let me correct that for you.....

When the killers at Parkland and Uvalde were still murdering unarmed victims, the police at Parkland and Uvalde did nothing...they didn't even try to stop them.......

And you think that helps your argument against our possible need to protect ourselves?*


----------



## tshrimp (Jun 7, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> Are you seeing what dictator Trudy just did in Canada?
> 
> They are come for our guns.  You can lie to yourself all you want.
> 
> WE WILL GIVE NOT ONE INCE!!!!!!


Is he actually allowed to do that? Has anyone challenged his authority on this?


----------



## Frankeneinstein (Jun 8, 2022)

g5000 said:


> _Compare the damage an AR-15 and a 9mm handgun can do to the human body: “One looks like a grenade went off in there,” says Peter Rhee, a trauma surgeon at the University of Arizona. “The other looks like a bad knife cut.”
> 
> [snip]
> 
> ...


I see the intellectual surrender side of your argument and how it has now given way to the emotional hail mary retreat...
...this is a white liberal left wing problem borne out of the 60's "do your own thing" and "sex drugs and rock and roll" mentality [along with a host of other dangerous bumper sticker cliches] that we were warned would happen to us as a nation if we did not destroy that cultural cancer...
none of this was a problem before the "cultural revolution"
reap what you sow


----------



## Zincwarrior (Jun 8, 2022)

Neither. Dad's M1 will do nicely.

Alternatively my competition pistol.


----------



## Esdraelon (Oct 6, 2022)

g5000 said:


> There are voices saying maybe it is time to show the photos of the dead kids who are killed by mass shooters so the public can see just how horrific AR-15s are.


So, you think spreading fear porn over a statistically miniscule number of dead will cause... what?  Lawmakers to try to end 2A?  And if they decide they can circumvent our Constitution by having a referendum or some other non-Constitutionally approved amendment process that is passed by a simple majority vote, that Americans will simply accept this move because our neighbors are afraid of being one of the EXTREMELY small number of people who are killed not only in a "mass shooting" but the even smaller number who are murdered with a rifle of any description?

I don't think this would turn out as well as you might hope.  I have a simple question and I'd like you to be honest - if you're capable of it on this topic. 

 IF your fear campaign led to legislation to severely limit 2A without following the Amendment process and *tens of thousands of us shocked the hell out of those like YOU by fighting it to the death*, at what number of dead Americans _would you stop supporting confiscation_?

The question probably doesn't seem valid to you because your beliefs about firearms are atypical and your willingness to risk life, liberty and limbs for ANY right, is likely an unfathomable concept for you.

But for the sake of discussion and actual TRUTH about this issue, try to imagine the scenes being played out all over the country.  Even in blue states and cities the gang bangers would go to war before they gave them up. 

Old white guys like myself who've had enough of being blamed and penalized for shit we NEVER DID, would stand in our front door and resist.  Average men and women of all ages, all over the country, who have watched as the myth of cops providing safety for them and their loved ones has been CLEARLY debunked, and lots of Democrats all over the nation balking and standing their ground, hundreds of thousands of these people drawing a line at their front door and going to war with "law enforcers" who don't give a damn about our Constitution...

So... how many would you feel justified to sacrifice to save fewer than a thousand innocent lives per year in a nation where 80+ MILLION of us own guns and never commit a crime EVER...  The reason I ask is because I suspect that a huge number of Americans like yourself would cheerfully watch thousands die just because they refuse to give up their right to self-protection.  This irrational take on the problem of mass shootings only proves that it isn't life-saving that is the REAL issue.

It's like so many other issues today... *it's really about exercising CONTROL over those who disagree with your world view.*

  All I can tell ya is, THIS one, isn't going to come cheaply.  THIS ONE is going to cost a hell of a lot more than *those like you would be personally willing to pay.*


----------



## Esdraelon (Oct 6, 2022)

Frankeneinstein said:


> I see the intellectual surrender side of your argument and how it has now given way to the emotional hail mary retreat...
> ...this is a white liberal left wing problem borne out of the 60's "do your own thing" and "sex drugs and rock and roll" mentality [along with a host of other dangerous bumper sticker cliches] that we were warned would happen to us as a nation if we did not destroy that cultural cancer...
> none of this was a problem before the "cultural revolution"
> reap what you sow


So true.  Their desire to have no boundaries or limits whatever on their behaviors is what has actually led to the dissolution of our culture and NOW they are in fear because they are seeing the result of the depravity they've demanded we all embrace. 
 They panic because their choices are coming back to harm them or actually, _just to create a small risk that they may be harmed_.  They cannot have that.  They demand that the rest of us yield to them when it wasn't US who've created or perpetuated this problem.  

They're going to discover that removing THIS right will cost them more than they will ever be willing to pay.


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## Esdraelon (Oct 6, 2022)

Zincwarrior said:


> Neither. Dad's M1 will do nicely.
> 
> Alternatively my competition pistol.


So... if Americans will only surrender their AR/AK platforms, you folks will stop coming for the other semi-autos?  Have you ever heard of a "Ranch" version of a "mini-14"?





How about THIS one?  It doesn't appear nearly as scary as the AR or AK platform.

Would it be okay if we owned this one?


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## Rigby5 (Oct 6, 2022)

g5000 said:


> There are voices saying maybe it is time to show the photos of the dead kids who are killed by mass shooters so the public can see just how horrific AR-15s are.  Example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/06/01/uvalde-mass-shootings-graphic-images/
> 
> This was very effective when Emmett Till's mother insisted her son's funeral be an open casket and that his body be shown in the papers so everyone could see what the racist assholes who murdered him had done.  The photo of Till's body shocked the public and sentiment began turning against the segregationist South.
> 
> ...



That is totally and completely wrong.
Lots of people got out of Vietnam by shooting themselves with an AR.
The high velocity is totally and completely irrelevant, because the bullet is such a tiny sliver, that it can not impart much energy at all.  And it is energy that causes harm, NOT velocity.

The only time an AR is at all lethal, is after is has gone far enough to have slowed down, no longer has the same stabilizing spin, and then can easily TUMBLE after hitting someone.
It is these long range shot that do all the tissue damage.

The reality is that pistols are at least 4 times worse than AR wounds normally, because not only to average pistols have 4 times the area because they are bigger, but they often are hollow point, so that they expand into a huge saw blade that is over twice as wide as the original bullet.






ARs do not have expanding hollow point bullets.

Here is a comparison.


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## Rigby5 (Oct 6, 2022)

g5000 said:


> Was that a sentence?
> 
> As for "all we need to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun", that theory has been completely blown out of the  water.  The police at Parkland and in Uvalde completely failed to stop the bad guys with guns.
> 
> Only an idiot would continue to subscribe to this idiotic bullshit disastrous idea.



The cops got there TO LATE.
The armed defense has to be there BEFORE the intruder.


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## Rigby5 (Oct 6, 2022)

g5000 said:


> The survival rate from handgun wounds is much higher than the survival rate of AR-15 wounds.
> 
> Simple fact.



Totally and completely wrong.
If the handgun has hollowpoint bullets, which is common, its does over 4 times the damage of a rifle like an AR that does not have expanding bullets.

The AR bullet is less than a 4th the area of a common pistol, less than a 10th if the pistol has expanding hollow points.
The AR bullet will go right through with almost no damage at all at close range.
It is only at long range when it has lost most of its energy, that it will tumble and cause really bad wounds.


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## Rigby5 (Oct 6, 2022)

The facts are that over 30,000 people a years are killed by pistols in the US, while only about 100 a year are killed by any rifles, not just the AR.


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## Rigby5 (Oct 6, 2022)

The reality is the the .223 of the AR is about the weakest rifle bullet made.  In fact, it is so weak that it is illegal to use on deer in most states, because the states want a quicker, cleaner, and more humane kill.


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## Leo123 (Oct 6, 2022)

Yeah, handguns are SO much less lethal.....Do you feel LUCKY?


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## Couchpotato (Oct 6, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> That is totally and completely wrong.
> Lots of people got out of Vietnam by shooting themselves with an AR.
> The high velocity is totally and completely irrelevant, because the bullet is such a tiny sliver, that it can not impart much energy at all.  And it is energy that causes harm, NOT velocity.
> 
> ...


The 5.56 rd has 3 times the kinetic energy a 9mm has.


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## Couchpotato (Oct 6, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> The reality is the the .223 of the AR is about the weakest rifle bullet made.  In fact, it is so weak that it is illegal to use on deer in most states, because the states want a quicker, cleaner, and more humane kill.


Do you just make shit up?   38 states allow the use of the .223 for large game.  Of the 12 remaining most don’t allow any modern centerfire cartridges so it’s not about the .223 in those states either.


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## Couchpotato (Oct 6, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> The facts are that over 30,000 people a years are killed by pistols in the US, while only about 100 a year are killed by any rifles, not just the AR.


That has little to do with the killing capacity of a long gun and everything thing to do with the number of people being shot with hand guns vs rifles.


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## Couchpotato (Oct 6, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Yeah, handguns are SO much less lethal.....Do you feel LUCKY?


Hand guns are for sure less lethal than long guns.    That’s just a fact.   If they weren’t the military would issue rifles that shot handgun guns rounds to troops instead of rifle rounds.


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## Leo123 (Oct 6, 2022)

Couchpotato said:


> Hand guns are for sure less lethal than long guns.    That’s just a fact.   If they weren’t the military would issue rifles that shot handgun guns rounds to troops instead of rifle rounds.


True, rifles are better for long range accuracy and, depending on the gun, can shoot larger more powerful rounds.  I posted that Dirty Harry video for fun!!


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## Blues Man (Oct 7, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> The facts are that over 30,000 people a years are killed by pistols in the US, while only about 100 a year are killed by any rifles, not just the AR.


Please don't lump suicides into murder statistics.

Suicide is not a crim it's a choice that everyone has the absolute right to make.


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