# Dante vs Antares: The USA - Created & Greatness Achieved with Wealth ReDistribution



## Dante

[MENTION=40954]Antares[/MENTION]

*Dante vs Antares: The USA - Created & Greatness Achieved with Wealth ReDistribution* so says Dante

Challenge accepted: http://www.usmessageboard.com/bull-...antares-to-1-month-ban-penalty-for-loser.html


There is a Board/Forum for comments by members: Bull Ring Discussion and Call-outs http://www.usmessageboard.com/bull-...antares-to-1-month-ban-penalty-for-loser.html

The rules of the Bull Ring explain how posts in this thread by anyone other than the two participants will removed. 

.............

http://www.usmessageboard.com/bull-ring-discussions-and-call-outs/


I believe there is ample evidence in US History to prove the USA was created with and sustained it's great prosperity because of the concept and principles of wealth distribution.

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Let us move away from current faux-libertarian definitions/spin of wealth involving the terms labor and taxes.

Let us move away from current communistic and conservative definitions/spin of the terms weath distribution/wealth redistribution.

Let us move away from dueling quotes of the founders and framers as that can be an endless circle where they are shown to oppose each other and contradict themselves.

Let us agree to definitions ourselves. Let us agree to look at the actions and facts that determined the course the USA took, not what opponents of those actions wanted and lost out on.

If we agree to this it will be interesting and informative.

Dante


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The War of Indepence: The Continental Congress had little power of taxation: The Continental Congress as well as individual colonies/states issued paper money. This was a hudden tax on the people, for when the paper was redeemed who was it that paid?

Do you Antares, agree? 


The Articles of Confederation were weak and the governments were struggling with debt. The new Constitution remedied this. All debts were consolidated. They were paid off and the nation's credit was established as strong. Who paid? Was it a redistribution of wealth or did everyone and every state pay and get paid on their own debt? I think the Continental Congress had far less debt than the states. The fed paid off the debts. Equally, to each his own debt owed? Or did others help pay off the debt others accrued?

Jackson comes along later, he hates debt. His paying off the national debt fully...with whose money?  Hastens and worsens an already approaching bubble burst. Agreed?


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## Antares

[MENTION=15512]Dante[/MENTION]  I'll get to this tonight


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## Dante

bump

 [MENTION=40954]Antares[/MENTION]


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## emilynghiem

Sorry I missed this.

I would say USA greatness was DESPITE the flaws of abusing free market
as capitalism to SEIZE property from others, as in Hawaii and disenfranchising
Blacks from owning property or even their own bodies.

That is not redistribution of wealth but imperialism.
There are good things that came from corporate investment for profit
but also bad things from abuses we are still addressing today.

The ideal system would be where people apply and follow different systems
that work for different situations, but by free will and collaborative partnership.
So if you have pockets of socialism or capitalism, etc., they are still checked
by Constitutional principles to make sure there are no abuses against individuals.
But they are operated and managed by voluntary participation or free choice.

NOTE: to show support for Dante in addressing this issue at all,
I would be willing to offer my vote to Dante to balance it and show some "redistribution"
to encourage INCLUSION and participate by equal respect for all views, even if I disagree.



Dante said:


> [MENTION=40954]Antares[/MENTION]
> 
> *Dante vs Antares: The USA - Created & Greatness Achieved with Wealth ReDistribution* so says Dante
> 
> Challenge accepted: http://www.usmessageboard.com/bull-...antares-to-1-month-ban-penalty-for-loser.html
> 
> 
> There is a Board/Forum for comments by members: Bull Ring Discussion and Call-outs http://www.usmessageboard.com/bull-...antares-to-1-month-ban-penalty-for-loser.html
> 
> The rules of the Bull Ring explain how posts in this thread by anyone other than the two participants will removed.
> 
> .............
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/bull-ring-discussions-and-call-outs/
> 
> 
> I believe there is ample evidence in US History to prove the USA was created with and sustained it's great prosperity because of the concept and principles of wealth distribution.
> 
> ---------
> 
> Let us move away from current faux-libertarian definitions/spin of wealth involving the terms labor and taxes.
> 
> Let us move away from current communistic and conservative definitions/spin of the terms weath distribution/wealth redistribution.
> 
> Let us move away from dueling quotes of the founders and framers as that can be an endless circle where they are shown to oppose each other and contradict themselves.
> 
> Let us agree to definitions ourselves. Let us agree to look at the actions and facts that determined the course the USA took, not what opponents of those actions wanted and lost out on.
> 
> If we agree to this it will be interesting and informative.
> 
> Dante
> 
> 
> -------
> 
> The War of Indepence: The Continental Congress had little power of taxation: The Continental Congress as well as individual colonies/states issued paper money. This was a hudden tax on the people, for when the paper was redeemed who was it that paid?
> 
> Do you Antares, agree?
> 
> 
> The Articles of Confederation were weak and the governments were struggling with debt. The new Constitution remedied this. All debts were consolidated. They were paid off and the nation's credit was established as strong. Who paid? Was it a redistribution of wealth or did everyone and every state pay and get paid on their own debt? I think the Continental Congress had far less debt than the states. The fed paid off the debts. Equally, to each his own debt owed? Or did others help pay off the debt others accrued?
> 
> Jackson comes along later, he hates debt. His paying off the national debt fully...with whose money?  Hastens and worsens an already approaching bubble burst. Agreed?


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## emilynghiem

duplicate moved


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## JakeStarkey

The flaws are rooted in the poor regulation of business and finance.

There is no such thing as free market forces, unless you are taking about southern Somalia or northern Kenya, as an example.


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## emilynghiem

JakeStarkey said:


> The flaws are rooted in the poor regulation of business and finance.
> 
> There is no such thing as free market forces, unless you are taking about southern Somalia or northern Kenya, as an example.



Next question:
how much of these problems could be solved
by addressing the lack of checks on "corporate structures in general"
such as by setting up public access to conflict resolution or grievances processes, so that even private collective institutions are checked against abuse as govt is supposed to be.

Wouldn't the same system help prevent govt and corporate abuses alike?
If all people agreed to follow the same standards?
(and even if regulations are needed, these are written and enforced by mutual CONSENT
of the people affected, so responsibility is shared, not depending on top down govt.)


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