# Obama pushes for higher fuel efficiency standards



## Chris

It is so nice that the adults are back in charge....

Obama pushing stronger fuel-efficiency standard - USATODAY.com


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## auditor0007

Effective, January 1, 2010, all American vehicles must get 35 miles per gallon in the city and 45 on the highway.  If you are caught driving a vehicle that does not meet these standards, your vehicle will be confiscated and destroyed.


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## Shadow

And don't forget to fill your tires up...


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## xsited1

Thank God the government is going to save us from ourselves.  I can't wait until the government takes complete control over our lives.


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## 007

I wonder what that means for the future of NASCAR? They going to say that race cars have to get a certain amount of miles per gallon too?


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## Zoom-boing

Does anyone else remember when cars used to get 35 mph or possibly better and that was normal?  I seem to remember either a truck or suv that was getting close to 50 mph.  What happened?


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## WillowTree

Wonder how much this is going to cost us? So much for lowering taxes for 95% of us. Liar.


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## xsited1

Zoom-boing said:


> Does anyone else remember when cars used to get 35 mph or possibly better and that was normal?  I seem to remember either a truck or suv that was getting close to 50 mph.  What happened?



You're probably thinking of diesel powered cars.  The EPA has pretty much banned them for sale in the US.  However, in Europe they are fine because they are considered more environmentally friendly.  Funny, eh?


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## Chris

auditor0007 said:


> Effective, January 1, 2010, all American vehicles must get 35 miles per gallon in the city and 45 on the highway.  If you are caught driving a vehicle that does not meet these standards, your vehicle will be confiscated and destroyed.



That's a great idea.

Gas guzzlers embolden the terrorists.


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## xsited1

Chris said:


> auditor0007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Effective, January 1, 2010, all American vehicles must get 35 miles per gallon in the city and 45 on the highway.  If you are caught driving a vehicle that does not meet these standards, your vehicle will be confiscated and destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a great idea.
> 
> Gas guzzlers embolden the terrorists.
Click to expand...


You sound like a Neoconservative.



> They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
> Benjamin Franklin


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## Chris

xsited1 said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> auditor0007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Effective, January 1, 2010, all American vehicles must get 35 miles per gallon in the city and 45 on the highway.  If you are caught driving a vehicle that does not meet these standards, your vehicle will be confiscated and destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a great idea.
> 
> Gas guzzlers embolden the terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sound like a Neoconservative.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
> Benjamin Franklin
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



The greatest security problem this country faces is our dependence on foreign oil. Every president since Jimmy Carter has ignored it. We need to drive electric cars and natural gas trucks and screw the Arabs.


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## PoliticalChic

Chris said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris said:
> 
> 
> 
> The greatest security problem this country faces is our dependence on foreign oil. Every president since Jimmy Carter has ignored it. We need to drive electric cars and natural gas trucks and screw the Arabs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Things are rarely as simple as the quick solution seems.
> 
> Increased mileage is usually obtained by reducing the weight of the vehicle.  Reducing the weight is usually related to higher deaths in accidents.
> 
> Electric cars? How do we obtain the electricity? Power plants that use coal?  The President has already told us that he make the costs for coal furnaces excessive.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## alan1

I wonder how a car that gets 35+ mpg is going to be able to haul the landscaping equipment my gardener uses.


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## Harry Dresden

BatBoy said:


> I wonder how a car that gets 35+ mpg is going to be able to haul the landscaping equipment my gardener uses.



a good gardner only needs a mower and a hedging shears.....anything else and he is an ameteur.....


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## alan1

Harry Dresden said:


> BatBoy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder how a car that gets 35+ mpg is going to be able to haul the landscaping equipment my gardener uses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a good gardner only needs a mower and a hedging shears.....anything else and he is an ameteur.....
Click to expand...


It takes more than one mower to handle the size of my estate.


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## GHook93

Chris said:


> It is so nice that the adults are back in charge....
> 
> Obama pushing stronger fuel-efficiency standard - USATODAY.com



GREAT! Although I generally favor the free market; however, oil/gas is what fuels and finances our enemies such as Venezuela, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Russia! We need this, just as we needed the clean air act to dictate to the auto companies that they needed to produce cars that ran lead free!

Gitmo closing strike against; Fuel efficiency demand thumbs up!


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## GHook93

xsited1 said:


> You're probably thinking of diesel powered cars.  The EPA has pretty much banned them for sale in the US.  However, in Europe they are fine because they are considered more environmentally friendly.  Funny, eh?



You better back that up with some sources, because my bull shit meter is rising!


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## xsited1

GHook93 said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're probably thinking of diesel powered cars.  The EPA has pretty much banned them for sale in the US.  However, in Europe they are fine because they are considered more environmentally friendly.  Funny, eh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You better back that up with some sources, because my bull shit meter is rising!
Click to expand...


Try Google.  There are plenty of links to choose from.  I'm not surprised you haven't heard of this.  A local radio station host talked about this a few months ago and most of the callers were just as surprised as you.

The High Mileage Secret Nobody Talks About · Gas Mileage Tips


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## WillowTree

Chris said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a great idea.
> 
> Gas guzzlers embolden the terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You sound like a Neoconservative.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
> Benjamin Franklin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The greatest security problem this country faces is our dependence on foreign oil. Every president since Jimmy Carter has ignored it. We need to drive electric cars and natural gas trucks and screw the Arabs.
Click to expand...




does that include obamalama and the goracle?


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## WillowTree

are we gonna ground all the airplanes or do they fly on farts doyathink?


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## Zoom-boing

xsited1 said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone else remember when cars used to get 35 mph or possibly better and that was normal?  I seem to remember either a truck or suv that was getting close to 50 mph.  What happened?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're probably thinking of diesel powered cars.  The EPA has pretty much banned them for sale in the US.  However, in Europe they are fine because they are considered more environmentally friendly.  Funny, eh?
Click to expand...


OMG, I HAD one of those!  My dad thought gas-converted-to-diesel was the way to go.  I bought his car off him when it was 5 yrs old.  I never remember the mph being all that spectacular though.  Then again, I was a youth and have no idea what the mpg on it was.  Blown fuel pump and a head gasket (flew off on the highway, never to be seen again) was its demise.  But it was a beauty, Olds 98 Regency, royal blue, fabulous interior.  Other than the diesel factor, nicest car I ever owned.

I remember other cars though.  These, for example.   Seems to reach fuel efficiency, big has to go.  Guess the Duggars are gonna be tough out of luck.

Cheap High MPG Cars: 1985


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## xsited1

Zoom-boing said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone else remember when cars used to get 35 mph or possibly better and that was normal?  I seem to remember either a truck or suv that was getting close to 50 mph.  What happened?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're probably thinking of diesel powered cars.  The EPA has pretty much banned them for sale in the US.  However, in Europe they are fine because they are considered more environmentally friendly.  Funny, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OMG, I HAD one of those!  My dad thought gas-converted-to-diesel was the way to go.  I bought his car off him when it was 5 yrs old.  I never remember the mph being all that spectacular though.  Then again, I was a youth and have no idea what the mpg on it was.  Blown fuel pump and a head gasket (flew off on the highway, never to be seen again) was its demise.  But it was a beauty, Olds 98 Regency, royal blue, fabulous interior.  Other than the diesel factor, nicest car I ever owned.
> 
> I remember other cars though.  These, for example.   Seems to reach fuel efficiency, big has to go.  Guess the Duggars are gonna be tough out of luck.
> 
> Cheap High MPG Cars: 1985
Click to expand...


Nice link!  We'll see what Obama does.  My hunch is that he'll make matters a lot worse.  Let's hope I'm wrong.


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## michiganFats

Thank God that we are fortunate enough to have noted automotive engineer Barack Obama as President.


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## Chris

michiganFats said:


> Thank God that we are fortunate enough to have noted automotive engineer Barack Obama as President.



Thank God, indeed.

Our long national nightmare is finally over.


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## sitarro

Chris said:


> michiganFats said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank God that we are fortunate enough to have noted automotive engineer Barack Obama as President.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank God, indeed.
> 
> Our long national nightmare is finally over.
Click to expand...


You're a real dildo aren't cha chris?


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## Old Rocks

Mercedes 320, 30 mpg at 80 mph.

2008 Mercedes-Benz E320 BLUETEC -- Test drive and new car review -- 2008 Mercedes-Benz E320 BLUETEC turbodiesel


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## WillowTree

sitarro said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> michiganFats said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank God that we are fortunate enough to have noted automotive engineer Barack Obama as President.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank God, indeed.
> 
> Our long national nightmare is finally over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a real dildo aren't cha chris?
Click to expand...




You are not allowed to say dildo, it confuses someone! A Quacker!


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## cunclusion

So trying to get higher fuel efficiency standards is bad now. That is very interesting so are you guys against going to another alternative fuel also. Do you like giving all your money to other countries around the world or would you rather it stay here and circulate. I hope this is all a bad joke because if you guys are serious we are indeed in trouble.


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## Zoom-boing

cunclusion said:


> So trying to get higher fuel efficiency standards is bad now. That is very interesting so are you guys against going to another alternative fuel also. Do you like giving all your money to other countries around the world or would you rather it stay here and circulate. I hope this is all a bad joke because if you guys are serious we are indeed in trouble.



Ethanol was suppose to help reduce our dependency on foreign oil too.  How's that working out? 

I agree that something needs to be done.  They made cars smaller and more fuel efficient in the past but there is another price to pay for that.  Smaller cars are not as safe as bigger cars.  

How come the option of drilling off the coasts of the U.S. is no longer mentioned and instead, it is only about the government telling the automakers what to do?  Ah, I suppose the government is making sure its getting its money's worth from The Big Three, eh?

If Obama wants to keep good on his promises, he needs to compromise.


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## cunclusion

Thank you, but hey since we put money into the automobile companies its only right they need to adhere to what the government has been saying we do want our money back.


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## michiganFats

cunclusion said:


> So trying to get higher fuel efficiency standards is bad now. That is very interesting so are you guys against going to another alternative fuel also. Do you like giving all your money to other countries around the world or would you rather it stay here and circulate. I hope this is all a bad joke because if you guys are serious we are indeed in trouble.



I don't think higher fuel efficiency standards are bad. I do think it's ridiculous for a non-engineer to think he can just snap his fingers and "presto!",problem solved. I am in favor of alternative fuels. I think that Brazil is doing it the right way by requiring that all cars be flex fueled. That's still government interference, but it least it results in competition at the pump,  and it has kept their prices down. I'm also in favor of mass transit. I'd much rather take the bus then have to maintain a car,too bad the mass transit system in my area sucks.
The diesel technology in Europe right now is outstanding. My neighbor got an Audi diesel last year, and you wouldn't know that it was a diesel if no one told you. Great mileage and performance, 35MPG in the city, and it drives like a sportscar.

As far as our dependence on foriegn oil, it is kind of stupid to keep sending money out of the country. It's too bad we don't drill for the oil that is right here in the good ol' US of A. Remind me again why it is that we aren't drilling here?


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## cunclusion

Its cool to require cars to be flex fuels but we run into a major problem is the supply issue. One by removing the susidies to ethanol but currently the price is no better and unless we can refine the way we get ethanol it will be taken from our food supply which is a bad idea anyways. Brazil uses sugar but it has a whole lot less vehicles on the road. I saw something on Discovery and CNBC about seaweed that is something we could look into produces more of the fuel and requires less energy to produce and a few companies are looking into it as a viable solution for right now for flex i think its the best but will not be viable for atleast another year.


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## michiganFats

Cunclusion, great point about the flex fuel. We produce a lot of food in this country, and many people around the world would starve if we didn't. Unfortunately, that means that we can't devote crops for fuel. When I have time today I'm going to research how much food the OPEC nations receive from America, and whether or not any of that food is considered foreign aid.


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## Zoom-boing

cunclusion said:


> Thank you, but hey since we put money into the automobile companies its only right they need to adhere to what the government has been saying *we do want our money back*.



Are you holding your breath?  I'm not.


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## AllieBaba

Gosh, Obama wants to control population, Obama wants the government to control the auto and banking industries....

But hey, he's no liberal! He's a centrist!

Two years of this shit and Congress is ours.


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## cunclusion

Our country needs to be energy self-sufficient with that comes security and jobs what more can anyone ask for. Then we can do something we have not done in a long time we can start shipping oil and gas out instead of taking it in. I dont know about anyone else but thats a great thing. Dont you think?


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## michiganFats

I just checked the food figures, nothing there. Oh well.


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## Chris

michiganFats said:


> cunclusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> So trying to get higher fuel efficiency standards is bad now. That is very interesting so are you guys against going to another alternative fuel also. Do you like giving all your money to other countries around the world or would you rather it stay here and circulate. I hope this is all a bad joke because if you guys are serious we are indeed in trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think higher fuel efficiency standards are bad. I do think it's ridiculous for a non-engineer to think he can just snap his fingers and "presto!",problem solved. I am in favor of alternative fuels. I think that Brazil is doing it the right way by requiring that all cars be flex fueled. That's still government interference, but it least it results in competition at the pump,  and it has kept their prices down. I'm also in favor of mass transit. I'd much rather take the bus then have to maintain a car,too bad the mass transit system in my area sucks.
> The diesel technology in Europe right now is outstanding. My neighbor got an Audi diesel last year, and you wouldn't know that it was a diesel if no one told you. Great mileage and performance, 35MPG in the city, and it drives like a sportscar.
> 
> As far as our dependence on foriegn oil, it is kind of stupid to keep sending money out of the country. It's too bad we don't drill for the oil that is right here in the good ol' US of A. Remind me again why it is that we aren't drilling here?
Click to expand...


Because we only have 3% of the world's oil reserves.


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## michiganFats

Chris, when you say 3% please define  how you came by that number. Are you talking about just proved developed, or are you including proved undeveloped? I'm not trying to be a dick, it's just that I looked up the numbers, and my response depends upon your definition of reserve.


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## Old Rocks

We could have diesels that are 80% cleaner, have double the horsepower, and increase in mileage of 50% or better. Right now, with off the shelf parts. Already being done right here in the US.

Biofuel-Powered by Design
By Lindsey Irwin/staff writer/Article: July 2007 Issue of Bioiesel Magazine 

Biodiesel is moving into the world of posh consumer sport utility vehicles thanks to diesel engine conversion specialist Johnathan Goodwin. His fuel economy- and horsepower-enhanced vehicles have been featured on MTV&#8217;s Pimp My Ride, sold on eBay and have now caught the attention of some high-profile figures, including California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. 

He&#8217;s the one they call when all the others say, &#8220;It can&#8217;t be done.&#8221; His peers refer to him as the "foremost authority on Duramax diesel conversions of all vehicles." His work is in such high demand that he could sell one converted diesel engine Hummer an hour, if he wanted. Although he has a right to brag about his innovations, Jonathan Goodwin&#8217;s quiet, reserved nature communicates his preference for a low profile. That&#8217;s not quite possible, however, as the Wichita, Kan., native&#8217;s talent keeps him in the spotlight. In fact, his upcoming conversions are going to be taped for a television series that is set to air on the Discovery Channel, and one of his diesel conversions involves California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger&#8217;s personal vehicle. Goodwin&#8217;s projects are cutting edge, but he insists that he&#8217;s simply a hard-worker and a determined problem solver, doing what he loves. "I&#8217;m not a chemist, I&#8217;m not a scientist or an electrical engineer," Goodwin says. "I&#8217;m just one of those people that will take something that I&#8217;m interested in and I can&#8217;t leave it alone, and I will push it to the highest edge."

Now the head of two of his own companies, Jonathan Goodwin H-Line Conversions, a Hummer conversion business in Wichita, Kan., and SAE Energy, a technology development entity, he got his start working on motorcycle and all-terrain vehicle engines when he was 15 years old. In 1998, Goodwin converted his first Hummer, an H1, to a Duramax diesel engine after a few roadside repairs, running it at high speeds through a pond, pushing all the vehicle&#8217;s limits and bending all the rods in the motor. He decided to drop in the new engine to modify a few complications and gain more horsepower and has been refining issues associated with the Hummer line ever since. 

Goodwin began to hone in on the environmental and fuel-efficiency aspects of his conversions at the request of a client and since then his business opportunities have snowballed. In 2006, Goodwin partnered with a group called the EcoTrek Foundation to convert the perceived worst gas-guzzler of all sport utility vehicles (SUVs)&#8212;the Hummer H2&#8212;to run on biodiesel rather than conventional gasoline. Goodwin and environmentalist and auto enthusiast Tom Holm, founder of EcoTrek and the host of Outdoor Life Network&#8217;s &#8220;Adventure Highway&#8221; television series, aligned with General Motors Corp. (GM) to customize the vehicle with a Duramax LBZ engine, an Allison M1000 transmission, sustainable soy-foam seats and nonpetroleum-based tires, along with several other upgraded features. Needless to say, the EcoTrek H2 Hummer was a hit at the 2006 Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) show, the premier automotive specialty performance products trade show that attracts more than 100,000 industry professionals each year. &#8220;We&#8217;ve gotten a lot of interest with mass transportation and some fleets of 800 are just waiting for us to come out and offer this to them,&#8221; Goodwin says. &#8220;We&#8217;re getting close to wanting to do that, but we&#8217;ve just been having so much fun refining the technology. It&#8217;s been incredible.&#8221; 

Hot Commodity 
Almost immediately following the SEMA Show, Goodwin received a call from Martin Tobias, the CEO of Imperium Renewables, with an out-of-the-ordinary pitch. He wanted to convert a beat-up classic American muscle car to run on biodiesel for a special Earth Day episode of MTV Network&#8217;s &#8220;Pimp My Ride&#8221; (PMR) television show. Goodwin agreed and flew out to Galpin Auto Sports&#8217; garage in Southern California to begin work earlier this year. After 500 hours of taping and build time, the outcome was the ideal &#8220;green machine&#8221;&#8212;an 800 horsepower biodiesel-powered 1965 Chevrolet Impala that gets 25 miles per gallon (mpg). Not only did Goodwin convert the engine despite skepticism from producers of the show, but the car also demonstrated the sheer performance that can be achieved using the renewable fuel. The upgraded Impala raced a Lamborghini at the Pomona Raceway and left it in the dust. &#8220;I&#8217;m glad that I was able to show them that this diesel engine running on canola oil can pretty much yield all the power that you want,&#8221; Goodwin says. 
Biofuel-Powered by Design
By Lindsey Irwin/staff writer/Article: July 2007 Issue of Bioiesel Magazine 

Biodiesel is moving into the world of posh consumer sport utility vehicles thanks to diesel engine conversion specialist Johnathan Goodwin. His fuel economy- and horsepower-enhanced vehicles have been featured on MTV&#8217;s Pimp My Ride, sold on eBay and have now caught the attention of some high-profile figures, including California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. 

He&#8217;s the one they call when all the others say, &#8220;It can&#8217;t be done.&#8221; His peers refer to him as the "foremost authority on Duramax diesel conversions of all vehicles." His work is in such high demand that he could sell one converted diesel engine Hummer an hour, if he wanted. Although he has a right to brag about his innovations, Jonathan Goodwin&#8217;s quiet, reserved nature communicates his preference for a low profile. That&#8217;s not quite possible, however, as the Wichita, Kan., native&#8217;s talent keeps him in the spotlight. In fact, his upcoming conversions are going to be taped for a television series that is set to air on the Discovery Channel, and one of his diesel conversions involves California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger&#8217;s personal vehicle. Goodwin&#8217;s projects are cutting edge, but he insists that he&#8217;s simply a hard-worker and a determined problem solver, doing what he loves. "I&#8217;m not a chemist, I&#8217;m not a scientist or an electrical engineer," Goodwin says. "I&#8217;m just one of those people that will take something that I&#8217;m interested in and I can&#8217;t leave it alone, and I will push it to the highest edge."

Now the head of two of his own companies, Jonathan Goodwin H-Line Conversions, a Hummer conversion business in Wichita, Kan., and SAE Energy, a technology development entity, he got his start working on motorcycle and all-terrain vehicle engines when he was 15 years old. In 1998, Goodwin converted his first Hummer, an H1, to a Duramax diesel engine after a few roadside repairs, running it at high speeds through a pond, pushing all the vehicle&#8217;s limits and bending all the rods in the motor. He decided to drop in the new engine to modify a few complications and gain more horsepower and has been refining issues associated with the Hummer line ever since. 

Goodwin began to hone in on the environmental and fuel-efficiency aspects of his conversions at the request of a client and since then his business opportunities have snowballed. In 2006, Goodwin partnered with a group called the EcoTrek Foundation to convert the perceived worst gas-guzzler of all sport utility vehicles (SUVs)&#8212;the Hummer H2&#8212;to run on biodiesel rather than conventional gasoline. Goodwin and environmentalist and auto enthusiast Tom Holm, founder of EcoTrek and the host of Outdoor Life Network&#8217;s &#8220;Adventure Highway&#8221; television series, aligned with General Motors Corp. (GM) to customize the vehicle with a Duramax LBZ engine, an Allison M1000 transmission, sustainable soy-foam seats and nonpetroleum-based tires, along with several other upgraded features. Needless to say, the EcoTrek H2 Hummer was a hit at the 2006 Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) show, the premier automotive specialty performance products trade show that attracts more than 100,000 industry professionals each year. &#8220;We&#8217;ve gotten a lot of interest with mass transportation and some fleets of 800 are just waiting for us to come out and offer this to them,&#8221; Goodwin says. &#8220;We&#8217;re getting close to wanting to do that, but we&#8217;ve just been having so much fun refining the technology. It&#8217;s been incredible.&#8221; 

Hot Commodity 
Almost immediately following the SEMA Show, Goodwin received a call from Martin Tobias, the CEO of Imperium Renewables, with an out-of-the-ordinary pitch. He wanted to convert a beat-up classic American muscle car to run on biodiesel for a special Earth Day episode of MTV Network&#8217;s &#8220;Pimp My Ride&#8221; (PMR) television show. Goodwin agreed and flew out to Galpin Auto Sports&#8217; garage in Southern California to begin work earlier this year. After 500 hours of taping and build time, the outcome was the ideal &#8220;green machine&#8221;&#8212;an 800 horsepower biodiesel-powered 1965 Chevrolet Impala that gets 25 miles per gallon (mpg). Not only did Goodwin convert the engine despite skepticism from producers of the show, but the car also demonstrated the sheer performance that can be achieved using the renewable fuel. The upgraded Impala raced a Lamborghini at the Pomona Raceway and left it in the dust. &#8220;I&#8217;m glad that I was able to show them that this diesel engine running on canola oil can pretty much yield all the power that you want,&#8221; Goodwin says. 

H-Line Conversions - Hummer H1 & H2 Diesel and Green Fuel Conversions - Wichita, Kansas

Once again, the problem has been lack of leadership among those being paid millions of dollars a year to lead.


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## Old Rocks

AllieBaba said:


> Gosh, Obama wants to control population, Obama wants the government to control the auto and banking industries....
> 
> But hey, he's no liberal! He's a centrist!
> 
> Two years of this shit and Congress is ours.



Two more years of blather like that, and we will have a 70 Dem Senate.


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## GHook93

AllieBaba said:


> Gosh, Obama wants to control population, Obama wants the government to control the auto and banking industries....
> 
> But hey, he's no liberal! He's a centrist!
> 
> Two years of this shit and Congress is ours.



Be careful what you wish for! The economy is inevitably going to upswing during Obama's 1st terms! You say how with adding $1.5 Trillion to the deficit that was already at a record deficit. The Bank, fiancial and real estate sector will be through the mortgage meltdown. The subprime loan have already been worked through the system. Right now and throughout the year we will see the conventional (good credit) ARMs and stated loans be worked through the system. 2009 will be a long year, by the middle of 2010 you will start to see the meltdown nearly finish and an upswing on lending. Gas price will continue to decrease with more fuel efficient cars and Obama's pledge to put a harder crunch on the auto industry. A dollar being low is not always a bad thing! It increases exports, why do you think China artifically keeps its currency low? The cost of our exports are less even at the same price points. Corporations are downsizing and closing locations now and starting to squeeze to their minimums. When the banks start lending again, then people will start spending and corporations will start to open more locations and start hiring again. Obama will get the credit unjustificably, since he will be the receiptant of natural swing in the economy! 

2010 you will see more Democrats elected to the house, senate and state governors, because the stench of Bush will still be on people's minds and he will still take the blame.

By 2012, you will see probably 75%+ D in the House, Senate and State governors. You will see a majority in the Supreme Court and D in the White House. With all that expect some RADICAL changes including the 2nd constitutional convention!


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## Bern80

Zoom-boing said:


> Does anyone else remember when cars used to get 35 mph or possibly better and that was normal?  I seem to remember either a truck or suv that was getting close to 50 mph.  What happened?



I believe it's called a carborator.


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## Bern80

Chris said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a great idea.
> 
> Gas guzzlers embolden the terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You sound like a Neoconservative.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
> Benjamin Franklin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The greatest security problem this country faces is our dependence on foreign oil. Every president since Jimmy Carter has ignored it. We need to drive electric cars and natural gas trucks and screw the Arabs.
Click to expand...


In terms of our consumption there is a big difference between dependance on foreign oil and ARAB foreign oil.  But yeah I agree with the premise.


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## cunclusion

Bern80 said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You sound like a Neoconservative.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The greatest security problem this country faces is our dependence on foreign oil. Every president since Jimmy Carter has ignored it. We need to drive electric cars and natural gas trucks and screw the Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In terms of our consumption there is a big difference between dependance on foreign oil and ARAB foreign oil.  But yeah I agree with the premise.
Click to expand...


Right we should cut our dependance on oil from anywhere in the end its better for us anyways. We can start being a supplier too so money can flow into our pockets.


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## Old Rocks

cunclusion said:


> Bern80 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right we should cut our dependance on oil from anywhere in the end its better for us anyways. We can start being a supplier too so money can flow into our pockets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, we cannot be a supplier. Oil production peaked here in the US in 1970, just as Hubert, a petroleum geologist, predicted in 1948. We have 3% of the worlds easily recoverable oil, and that includes Alaska, and use 25% of the produced in the world. While we have huge deposites of oil shale, the refining of that shale requires vast amounts of energy and water.
> In an area notoriously lacking in extra water.
> 
> Time for realism. We are rich in wind, ocean current, solar, geothermal, and wave power. All we need to do is build the grid for it, Build the vehicles to run on it, and let some rather unnice people drink their oil.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## Meister

I believe in some of what you say o.r.  but, a lot of this will be tied up in courts by the enviromentalists for years at this scale.  I'm talking solar, and I'm talking wind.  I never heard of ocean energy...it sounds like it would be expensive.  We do need to gradually wean ourselves from oil, but this will take years without wrecking the economy. We do need to drill what we have, but also go forward with alternative energy.  It's not an easy issue to solve on this one.


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## michiganFats

I agree. realism would be a refreshing change as far as this subject is concerned.


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## cunclusion

Old Rocks said:


> cunclusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bern80 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, we cannot be a supplier. Oil production peaked here in the US in 1970, just as Hubert, a petroleum geologist, predicted in 1948. We have 3% of the worlds easily recoverable oil, and that includes Alaska, and use 25% of the produced in the world. While we have huge deposites of oil shale, the refining of that shale requires vast amounts of energy and water.
> In an area notoriously lacking in extra water.
> 
> Time for realism. We are rich in wind, ocean current, solar, geothermal, and wave power. All we need to do is build the grid for it, Build the vehicles to run on it, and let some rather unnice people drink their oil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well maybe not with shale but with natural gas and coal. So do you think with all of this we cannot be come a net supplier we already supply alot of our coal to China(primary) and others  but its price is not high enough to help the trade imbalance.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## KittenKoder

I'm just waiting for us to run out world wide ... it will be a funny thing to watch.


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## Meister

Kitty, you'll be watching from the grave on that one.  So will you're great-grand kids.


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