# Second Language Acquisition



## Unkotare (Sep 25, 2016)

Is a life-long process. Anyone honest will tell you that any language they learned after the Critical Period is something they are still working on. However, the benefits of learning languages are many and well-documented. These benefits continue even (or especially) into later life. Couldn't hurt to take on one more.


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## JakeStarkey (Sep 25, 2016)

I can still read and write several languages very well.

But I now have trouble with Spanish and my French is not any better.

One has to stick with it, period.


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## hauke (Sep 28, 2016)

in germany every child starts learning english in class 5
minimum is to class 9, a lot to class 10, and many till class 12-13
the 3d language gets tought in germany at class 7, theres choice then, either french which is the most usual 3d language or latein, russian, chinese , italian,polish,japanese,spanish,portuguese,italian,arabic,danish,chechoslovacian,netherlands speech,hungarian,greek,bulgarian ,romanian

some schools have more rare languages like hindi or thai as 3d languages

theres allso the choice to learn aditional languages

remember lots of this countrys are either neighbors to germany or at least in the EU

netherlands are special, we germans and the people of the netherlands can almost understand each other

in german their language is called Hollandisch,its not german

frisian is not it


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## Unkotare (Oct 2, 2016)

Foreign language instruction in American education is given even shorter shrift than Mathematics. It might be a good idea to offer more choice, make it a more 'serious' subject, and start instruction earlier in the educational process. It might also be a good idea to offer language classes at senior/community centers.


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## Unkotare (Oct 3, 2016)

It's true that most Americans can live their Ives just fine without ever mastering a second language, but the benefits beyond communicative necessity are many and great.


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## PK1 (Oct 3, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> It's true that most Americans can live their Ives just fine without ever mastering a second language, but the benefits beyond communicative necessity are many and great.


It's even more important to TRAVEL beyond national borders and experience & respect other cultures. Knowing more than one language is a definite plus.


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## Unkotare (Oct 3, 2016)

PK1 said:


> Unkotare said:
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> > It's true that most Americans can live their Ives just fine without ever mastering a second language, but the benefits beyond communicative necessity are many and great.
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Not for everyone.


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## PK1 (Oct 3, 2016)

hauke said:


> in germany every child starts learning english in class 5
> minimum is to class 9, a lot to class 10, and many till class 12-13
> the 3d language gets tought in germany at class 7, theres choice then, either french which is the most usual 3d language or latein, russian, chinese, italian,polish,japanese,spanish,portuguese,italian,arabic,danish,chechoslovacian,netherlands speech,hungarian,greek,bulgarian ,romanian
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> ...


In my experience, the Dutch & Swiss are the most multilingual; know 4 languages.


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## Unkotare (Oct 4, 2016)

PK1 said:


> hauke said:
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There is no "most." The human capacity for learning languages is pretty great. There are some places in Africa where children growing up near the confluence of various villages and/or territories commonly speak quite a few different languages and dialects.


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## LoneLaugher (Oct 4, 2016)

There is one tried and true method for learning a second...or third...etc..., language. It is....oddly enough....the very same method used by everyone to learn their first. 

Consider that. How did you learn your first language? You listened. You listened A LOT. You didn't say anything for a long time. You didn't understand much either. But...you listened constantly. 

After many many months of daily listening..you began to comprehend the meaning of some words. And...whether or not you understood the meaning...you began to repeat what you heard. next thing you knew...you were adding words to your vocabulary with ease. You had your first language. Piece of cake. 

If you've got the time to commit to it....you can learn a second language with ease. Just do that again. Disregard your desire to know what words mean until you begin to comprehend without trying. IOW...don't translate as it adds an extra step that is unneccesary and inhibits learning. Simply listen a lot....and when ready....start repeating the words you hear. You'll be fluent in a matter of months. 

You can thank me later.


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## Unkotare (Oct 4, 2016)

LoneLaugher said:


> There is one tried and true method for learning a second...or third...etc..., language. It is....oddly enough....the very same method used by everyone to learn their first.
> 
> Consider that. How did you learn your first language? You listened. You listened A LOT. You didn't say anything for a long time. You didn't understand much either. But...you listened constantly.
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Wow. Remarkably inaccurate and tremendously bad advice. But I'm sure you were just kidding.


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## LoneLaugher (Oct 4, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> LoneLaugher said:
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You can always be counted on for arrogance...if nothing else.


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## Unkotare (Oct 4, 2016)

LoneLaugher said:


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Be serious.


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## LoneLaugher (Oct 4, 2016)

Unkotare said:


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I gave you the recipe for learning a second language. You shit on it. Your call.


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## Unkotare (Oct 4, 2016)

LoneLaugher said:


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No, you really didn't.


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## LoneLaugher (Oct 4, 2016)

Unkotare said:


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Yep. I sure did. Works every time.


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## Unkotare (Oct 4, 2016)

LoneLaugher said:


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I guess you weren't kidding. Sorry, but you are just about completely wrong on all counts. Don't take it personally.


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## LoneLaugher (Oct 4, 2016)

Unkotare said:


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I see.  Have you ever tried my method?


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## Unkotare (Oct 4, 2016)

LoneLaugher said:


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Nobody has and nobody will. Everything you posted was inaccurate. Again, don't take it personally.


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## LoneLaugher (Oct 5, 2016)

Unkotare said:


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You certainly are arrogant. I'm sure you are going to support that claim with something other than definitive statements. I'll wait.


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## Unkotare (Oct 5, 2016)

LoneLaugher said:


> There is one tried and true method for learning a second...or third...etc..., language. It is....oddly enough....the very same method used by everyone to learn their first.
> 
> Consider that. How did you learn your first language? You listened. You listened A LOT. You didn't say anything for a long time. You didn't understand much either. But...you listened constantly.
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There is no "method" that will make you fluent in a new language in a matter of months. Anyone who says otherwise is fooling himself, or misusing the term "fluent."


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## Unkotare (Oct 5, 2016)

LoneLaugher said:


> There is one tried and true method for learning a second...or third...etc..., language. It is....oddly enough....the very same method used by everyone to learn their first.
> 
> Consider that. How did you learn your first language? You listened. You listened A LOT. You didn't say anything for a long time. You didn't understand much either. But...you listened constantly.
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Anyone who has been around a baby knows it is anything but a silent observer. Babies make noises to communicate from the very first. The role of enriched input in the process of first language acquisition is far, far more complicated than any of the trite nonsense above would suggest.


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## Unkotare (Oct 5, 2016)

LoneLaugher said:


> There is one tried and true method for learning a second...or third...etc..., language. It is....oddly enough....the very same method used by everyone to learn their first.
> 
> Consider that. How did you learn your first language? You listened. You listened A LOT. You didn't say anything for a long time. You didn't understand much either. But...you listened constantly.
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> ...






Language is about communication. Not trying to communicate is about the worst advice imaginable.


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## Meathead (Oct 5, 2016)

In this dialogue of idiots, i have to agree with the OP. There is no easy method for learning a new language once a certain age is attained. Children obviously have the capacity to learn multiple languages as they grow up, and after that, the more dissimilar the language to what was learned as a child, the more difficult it is to master.

Here in the Czech Republic, other Slavic speakers can learn the language in a matter of sometimes months. For those like me, who already spoke three remotely related languages, it is an ongoing struggle.

Having said that, some languages are indeed easier to learn than others. Spanish and English are not that difficult. Czech, with it's seven cases and mind-boggling inflection is among the most difficult. Hungarian is simply impossible from what I understand. Greek, my second language, stands somewhere in the middle but people seem to be intimidated by the alphabet even though it is not that difficult.


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## Unkotare (Oct 5, 2016)

LoneLaugher said:


> There is one tried and true method for learning a second...or third...etc..., language. It is....oddly enough....the very same method used by everyone to learn their first.
> 
> Consider that. How did you learn your first language? You listened. You listened A LOT. You didn't say anything for a long time. You didn't understand much either. But...you listened constantly.
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> ...








Not utilizing the language learning skills one acquired through first language acquisition, and not relating words and phrases from L1 to L2, is not only ridiculous but literally impossible. 


Adults don't learn like babies, and you can't erase your first language to learn a second. You wouldn't want to if you could.


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## Unkotare (Oct 5, 2016)

Meathead said:


> In this dialogue of idiots, i have to agree with the OP. There is no easy method for learning a new language once a certain age is attained. Children obviously have the capacity to learn multiple languages as they grow up, and after that, the more dissimilar the language to what was learned as a child, the more difficult it is to master.
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> Here in the Czech Republic, other Slavic speakers can learn the language in a matter of sometimes months. For those like me, who already spoke three remotely related languages, it is an ongoing struggle.
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> Having said that, some languages are indeed easier to learn than others. Spanish and English are not that difficult. Czech, with it's seven cases and mind-boggling inflection is among the most difficult. Hungarian is simply impossible from what I understand. Greek, my second language, stands somewhere in the middle but people seem to be intimidated by the alphabet even though it is not that difficult.







No language is "easier" or "more difficult" to learn in and of itself. The degree of difficulty is relative to a large number of factors in the language learner.


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## Meathead (Oct 5, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> Meathead said:
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> > In this dialogue of idiots, i have to agree with the OP. There is no easy method for learning a new language once a certain age is attained. Children obviously have the capacity to learn multiple languages as they grow up, and after that, the more dissimilar the language to what was learned as a child, the more difficult it is to master.
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You obviously have a superficial grasp of grammar as illustrated by what it is to "learn" as opposed to "learn in". Speakers of only unrelated languages (non-Indo-European) find it easier to learn Spanish and English than it is to learn Czech, to use the examples I gave.

You have a preconceived notion that all things _must_ be equal which comes through in your self-righteous rants. That is not the way of things in the real world.

Get over it.


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## Unkotare (Oct 5, 2016)

Meathead said:


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Hardly


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## Unkotare (Oct 5, 2016)

Meathead said:


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No, I don't. I just happen to know about this.


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## LoneLaugher (Oct 5, 2016)

I asked if the OP has ever tried my method. He knows it doesn't work...he must have tried it.


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## Unkotare (Oct 5, 2016)

LoneLaugher said:


> I asked if the OP has ever tried my method. He knows it doesn't work...he must have tried it.



No one has tried it.


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## Unkotare (Oct 6, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> LoneLaugher said:
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And no one will.


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## Unkotare (Oct 9, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> Is a life-long process. Anyone honest will tell you that any language they learned after the Critical Period is something they are still working on. However, the benefits of learning languages are many and well-documented. These benefits continue even (or especially) into later life. Couldn't hurt to take on one more.


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## Unkotare (Oct 10, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> LoneLaugher said:
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> > There is one tried and true method for learning a second...or third...etc..., language. It is....oddly enough....the very same method used by everyone to learn their first.
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.


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## Unkotare (Oct 10, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> LoneLaugher said:
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> > There is one tried and true method for learning a second...or third...etc..., language. It is....oddly enough....the very same method used by everyone to learn their first.
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.


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## Unkotare (Oct 25, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> Is a life-long process. Anyone honest will tell you that any language they learned after the Critical Period is something they are still working on. However, the benefits of learning languages are many and well-documented. These benefits continue even (or especially) into later life. Couldn't hurt to take on one more.


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## MKlenn (Nov 5, 2016)

If you would like to acquire a foreign language without much effort and time is no problem, there is the functional method, which suggests  using the target foreign language every day starting with some areas of your daily activity, e.g., reading newspapers, watching/listening news only, let’s say, in German (if German is to be the language you are going to acquire) for days, weeks, months, years. Start, let’s say, with 20 minutes, then, after 3-4 months increase it to 1 hour. Then expand using German gradually to other daily/regular activities – read only German language books, then try to get useful info (about the household etc.) only in German, find German native speakers and make friends with them and meet them regularly. Then, after 2 years or so, it’s up to you to go over to using German only or by 40 (50, 60) %. Then, after several years, your German should be fluent and you start to feel comfortable in it. It’ll be a part of yourself, not having made much effort.


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## Unkotare (Nov 7, 2016)

If anyone ever tells you they have the secret to "easily" or "quickly" becoming "fluent" in a second language, hold on to your wallet and walk away.


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## MKlenn (Nov 8, 2016)

Unkotare, I cannot "walk away" from myself. I have sucessfully used it.


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## MKlenn (Nov 8, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> "quickly"


...and the whole process had taken years (it had not been that quickly)


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## Unkotare (Nov 8, 2016)

Anyone claiming "quickly, easily, fluently" is full of shit.


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## anotherlife (Nov 9, 2016)

It's a bitch, yes.  Especially here.  I am European but not Indo European, yet I must speak French, German, and English.  And for the heck of it I learnt Russian too.  They are all mumbo jumbo.  My solution, I shoot everyone who doesn't speak my language.  Let's call this language attrition.  The Dutch already busted their country into two with a Belgium, on this score, to start with.


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## HenryBHough (Nov 9, 2016)

JakeStarkey said:


> I can still read and write several languages very well.
> 
> But I now have trouble with Spanish and my French is not any better.
> 
> One has to stick with it, period.



But was it wise to choose the one language to stick with as Gibberish?


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## Unkotare (Nov 9, 2016)

anotherlife said:


> ... I am European but not Indo European, ...



?????????

Huh?


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## anotherlife (Nov 10, 2016)

Unkotare said:


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I understand.  Europe is a long word to spell.  But don't be discouraged, it's one letter shorter than America.


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## Unkotare (Nov 10, 2016)

anotherlife said:


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You seem to be using terms you do not understand.


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## MKlenn (Nov 10, 2016)

anotherlife said:


> Belgium


May you, Dutch, re-unite with Flanders to create a new country?


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## anotherlife (Nov 10, 2016)

MKlenn said:


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That I would like to see.  But including the French parts of Flanders too.


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## MKlenn (Nov 11, 2016)

anotherlife said:


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Brussels + what else? 
Another unrelated question: Do you like discussions per SKYPE?


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## Unkotare (Nov 11, 2016)

Why adults are better learners than kids (So NO, you're not too old) - Fluent in 3 months - Language Hacking and Travel Tips


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## anotherlife (Nov 11, 2016)

MKlenn said:


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I think Brussels is 50-50.  What I would like to see is all the French Atlantic cost north of Brittany to go to the new Flandrian state.  Dividing Belgium on its own is useless, I think.


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## Unkotare (Nov 11, 2016)

Not all of his 'sales pitch' holds water, but as far as it goes this guy has the right idea.

"I am _definitely _against all of this “learn like a baby” crap I see floating around in the online language learning community. It’s nothing short of ludicrous!

You *aren’t *a baby so stop acting like one. It has inspired this wasteful passive listening pandemic – “it works for babies, so it _must _be good for me!” ignoring pretty damn obvious things like babies don’t speak _because they can’t yet _not because it interferes with their “inactive absorption” of the language."

Why adults are better learners than kids (So NO, you're not too old) - Fluent in 3 months - Language Hacking and Travel Tips


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## MKlenn (Nov 12, 2016)

anotherlife said:


> Belgium



How is this (only) linguistic division manifested what concerns personal relations between Francophones and Flemish speakers living in the same neighborhood? And if you are bilingual, how often do you speak French on an everyday basis? And what about the language of the armed forces, bi-lingual? Deep in the past, I heard people telling stories about their service in the Austrian army at the beginning of the 20th century: multilingual – a commander of a larger unit gave a command and the command was translated into languages (Czech, Ukrainian, Slovak, etc.) for soldiers of sub-units, who soldiers were of the same nationality (only Czechs, Ukrainians, Slovaks etc.).


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## anotherlife (Nov 12, 2016)

MKlenn said:


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The ancient Roman army did that too.  They had entire legions of foreign language speakers, e.g. the Visigoths.  That is not a problem.  The foundation should be a state that provides prosperity enhancing stately services to all citizens PER ETHNICITY.  The Romans did that.  The Belgians do that too, to some degree.  But the French don't, and their East European satellite states don't either.  So your problem statement is more relevant to France and east Europe than to Belgium.


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## MKlenn (Nov 12, 2016)

anotherlife said:


> Belgium



But what we learn from news is that Belgium suffers from the linguistic division, doesn’t it?There were, e.g., cases of parliamentary crisis in this connection there.


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## MKlenn (Nov 12, 2016)

anotherlife said:


> east Europe



I believe you are right what concerns Eastern Europe. Partially, it is because many East-European nations have very short experience in living in freedom and democracy; and partially, because the minority groups are patriots of and/or loyal to their national states, rather than of/to the states they are citizens of; and thirdly, partially because in the past they were in master/slave relations (enslaved nations / master nations), hence mutual hatred, and more to it – these master/slave relations may often project into the present, in the form of refusing to use the state languages of newly independent (in the past enslaved) nations, too (“why should we use the language of our former slaves”).


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## anotherlife (Nov 12, 2016)

MKlenn said:


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That is still a lesser problem than complete assimilation like in France.


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## anotherlife (Nov 12, 2016)

MKlenn said:


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In east Europe, freedom and democracy are what the communist and the entente define it to be.  These slave nations had freedom and democracy before ww1 also, in fact they had so much of it, that it was the time when they boosted their population count to become majorities.  The real hatred started after ww1, when the current new borders were put in.  Those cut people off of their homes and families.  Currently, under European Union support, these borders are made even worse by inventing and enforcing national language laws.  So I must observe that freedom and democracy is only a con in east Europe, ever since ww1.  West Europe and Russia can't afford it otherwise though.  One of the major evil of brexit is that it props this evil philosophy.  And language laws are the prime tools at the forefront of such modern day state inspired institutional looting.


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## Unkotare (Dec 17, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Is a life-long process. Anyone honest will tell you that any language they learned after the Critical Period is something they are still working on. However, the benefits of learning languages are many and well-documented. These benefits continue even (or especially) into later life. Couldn't hurt to take on one more.


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