# Israel's "Right to Exist"?



## sealadaigh

just what exactly is it? 

i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of israel and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.

i mean, who or what gives israel this right to exist? who conferred it upon israel or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? did israel have a right to exist before it became a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?

does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?

personally. i have no idea whether israel, or any state, has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.


----------



## Hossfly

reabhloideach said:


> just what exactly is it?
> 
> i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of israel and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.
> 
> i mean, who or what gives israel this right to exist? who conferred it upon israel or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? did israel have a right to exist before it became a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?
> 
> does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?
> 
> personally. i have no idea whether israel, or any state, has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.


Yep, that's a head scratcher, by golly.


----------



## MrAlwaysRight

The Palestinian government recognizes Israel's right to exist.

When will Israel recognize Palestine's right to exist?


----------



## MrAlwaysRight

Israel wasn't satisified with the Palestinian government recognizing their right to exist; now, the Israeli government wants them to recognize Israel as a theocracy- a "Jewish" state.

Which would make sense,maybe, if most of Israel's population followed Judaism!


----------



## Hossfly

MrAlwaysRight said:


> The Palestinian government recognizes Israel's right to exist.
> 
> When will Israel recognize Palestine's right to exist?


Don't you represent the Israeli government? And all True Torah Jews?


----------



## Hossfly

MrAlwaysRight said:


> Israel wasn't satisified with the Palestinian government recognizing their right to exist; now, the Israeli government wants them to recognize Israel as a theocracy- a "Jewish" state.
> 
> Which would make sense,maybe, if most of Israel's population followed Judaism!


What part of the Palisimian government doesn't have a charter that doesn't vow to wipe out Jewry?


----------



## SAYIT

reabhloideach said:


> just what exactly is it?
> 
> i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of israel and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.
> 
> i mean, who or what gives israel this right to exist? who conferred it upon israel or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? did israel have a right to exist before it became a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?
> 
> does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?
> 
> personally. i have no idea whether israel, or any state, has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.



A state's right to exist seems to come from the fact that it exists. For instance, while the state of Israel has existed for over 64 years, the state of "Palestine" has never existed. The reason it is such an issue with Israel is that some mindless twits amuse themselves and each other by claiming Israel (and only Israel) has no right to exist. Since Israel is the world's only predominately Jewish state, guess what kind of people do the challenging.
Anyway, I hope that answers your questions.


----------



## SAYIT

MrAlwaysRight said:


> The Palestinian government recognizes Israel's right to exist.
> When will Israel recognize Palestine's right to exist?



Perhap's if and when the state of Palestine exists, eh?
"The Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity." - Abba Eban


----------



## sealadaigh

SAYIT said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> just what exactly is it?
> 
> i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of israel and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.
> 
> i mean, who or what gives israel this right to exist? who conferred it upon israel or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? did israel have a right to exist before it became a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?
> 
> does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?
> 
> personally. i have no idea whether israel, or any state, has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A state's right to exist seems to come from the fact that it exists. For instance, while the state of Israel has existed for over 64 years, the state of "Palestine" has never existed. The reason it is such an issue with Israel is that some mindless twits amuse themselves and each other by claiming Israel (and only Israel) has no right to exist. Since Israel is the world's only predominately Jewish state, guess what kind of people do the challenging.
> Anyway, I hope that answers your questions.
Click to expand...


so you think the only reason israel has a right to exist because it does exist, and that, say, 65 years ago it had no right to exist...and should it be overrun it no longer has a right to exist.

since palestine and israel is one of the last remnants of the european colonialism that began in the 15th century, began to wane as the decolinization in the 17th and 18th century began, and any new colonial adventures were eliminated shortly after WWI, except for the palestine mandate and the six counties in the northeast of ireland, then i would call those people who who object to the israeli state as anti-colonialists, anti-imperialists, humanitarians, a few anti-semites, civil rights and human rights activists..

and no...you really didn't answer my question. i don't really think it is a question a zionist can answer, and particularly in general terms.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Interesting. What countries have expressed that they have the right to exist?


----------



## georgephillip

P F Tinmore said:


> Interesting. What countries have expressed that they have the right to exist?


Possibly those who've also expressed their right to annex?

"The recently published report by an Israeli judge concluding that Israel is not in fact occupying the Palestinian territories &#8211; despite a well-established international consensus to the contrary &#8211; has provoked mostly incredulity or mirth in Israel and abroad.

"Leftwing websites in Israel used comically captioned photographs to highlight Justice Edmond Levy&#8217;s preposterous finding. One shows an Israeli soldier pressing the barrel of a rifle to the forehead of a Palestinian pinned to the ground, saying: '*You see &#8211; I told you there&#8217;s no occupation*.'&#8221;

Israel&#8217;s Annexation Plan » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names


----------



## SAYIT

reabhloideach said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> just what exactly is it?
> 
> i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of israel and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.
> 
> i mean, who or what gives israel this right to exist? who conferred it upon israel or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? did israel have a right to exist before it became a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?
> 
> does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?
> 
> personally. i have no idea whether israel, or any state, has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A state's right to exist seems to come from the fact that it exists. For instance, while the state of Israel has existed for over 64 years, the state of "Palestine" has never existed. The reason it is such an issue with Israel is that some mindless twits amuse themselves and each other by claiming Israel (and only Israel) has no right to exist. Since Israel is the world's only predominately Jewish state, guess what kind of people do the challenging.
> Anyway, I hope that answers your questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so you think the only reason israel has a right to exist because it does exist, and that, say, 65 years ago it had no right to exist...and should it be overrun it no longer has a right to exist.
> 
> since palestine and israel is one of the last remnants of the european colonialism that began in the 15th century, began to wane as the decolinization in the 17th and 18th century began, and any new colonial adventures were eliminated shortly after WWI, except for the palestine mandate and the six counties in the northeast of ireland, then i would call those people who who object to the israeli state as anti-colonialists, anti-imperialists, humanitarians, a few anti-semites, civil rights and human rights activists..
> 
> and no...you really didn't answer my question. i don't really think it is a question a zionist can answer, and particularly in general terms.
Click to expand...


Are you suggesting Ireland must be dissolved because it has no right to exist? I'm shocked!


----------



## sealadaigh

P F Tinmore said:


> Interesting. What countries have expressed that they have the right to exist?



good luck...ir seems like they don't want to touch this one...LOL.

must be a lot easier to chant the "right to exist" mantra than to sit down and actually explain what it means.

i am beginning to think that when israel proclaims they have a right to exist, what they really mean is they have the right to deprive others of their existence.

makes for a good sound bite though...but it wears thin because way too much wool has been pulled over way too many eyes.


----------



## sealadaigh

SAYIT said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> A state's right to exist seems to come from the fact that it exists. For instance, while the state of Israel has existed for over 64 years, the state of "Palestine" has never existed. The reason it is such an issue with Israel is that some mindless twits amuse themselves and each other by claiming Israel (and only Israel) has no right to exist. Since Israel is the world's only predominately Jewish state, guess what kind of people do the challenging.
> Anyway, I hope that answers your questions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so you think the only reason israel has a right to exist because it does exist, and that, say, 65 years ago it had no right to exist...and should it be overrun it no longer has a right to exist.
> 
> since palestine and israel is one of the last remnants of the european colonialism that began in the 15th century, began to wane as the decolinization in the 17th and 18th century began, and any new colonial adventures were eliminated shortly after WWI, except for the palestine mandate and the six counties in the northeast of ireland, then i would call those people who who object to the israeli state as anti-colonialists, anti-imperialists, humanitarians, a few anti-semites, civil rights and human rights activists..
> 
> and no...you really didn't answer my question. i don't really think it is a question a zionist can answer, and particularly in general terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting Ireland must be dissolved because it has no right to exist? I'm shocked!
Click to expand...


i am not saying "yay" or "nay: on ireland's right to exist because i have no idea about the idea of right to exist. i am asking a question(s) about the concept and really am not getting  answers. what is particularly frustrating is this board is full of posters and visitors who would scream from the rooftops that israel has a right to exist, and they do scream it, along with many israeli prime-ministers.

other states/people have also claimed a "right to exist" but that has been a recent phenomenon and basically, they are just following israel's lead. i was curious as to what the right to exist meant initially. now i am curious also as to why those proponents of israel's "right to exist" have little or no idea what it means.

i don't know why you want to bring ireland into it. i have never heard any irishman say that ireland has a right to exist, nor have i heard  any irishman claim that they have a right to establish a celtic nation on the lands their ancestors had inhabited some 200+ years before the birth of christ, which would be most of southern europe extending all the way to the balkans.. people would think they are crazy.

sheesh, i could defend israel better than y'all do, and i think a lot of the things they are doing is indefensible.

now go ahead and don't answer the question. divert some more.


----------



## irosie91

MrAlwaysRight said:


> The Palestinian government recognizes Israel's right to exist.
> 
> When will Israel recognize Palestine's right to exist?




   The issue of Israel's  RIGHT TO EXIST   does not originate with Israel---it originates with the teaching of the jihadist dogs which is  "ISRAEL DOES NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO EXIST"    If you have an arguement with the very concept----speak to the dogs     As to Israeli recognition of the "right" of the  "palestinian nation"  to exist-----No country has an obligaton to recognize a state which is devoted to its destruction.      The USA and allies occupied Japan and German   etc-----after world war II----Those occupations and recognitions of their independent governments were based on   PEACE TREATIES and MANY AGREEMENTS        Had Japan decided to become devoted to the destruction of the USA    and had decided to teach its children that  slitting the throats of USA infants is a noble deed----Japan would still be under occupation


----------



## SAYIT

reabhloideach said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> so you think the only reason israel has a right to exist because it does exist, and that, say, 65 years ago it had no right to exist...and should it be overrun it no longer has a right to exist.
> 
> since palestine and israel is one of the last remnants of the european colonialism that began in the 15th century, began to wane as the decolinization in the 17th and 18th century began, and any new colonial adventures were eliminated shortly after WWI, *except for the palestine mandate and the six counties in the northeast of ireland*, then i would call those people who who object to the israeli state as anti-colonialists, anti-imperialists, humanitarians, a few anti-semites, civil rights and human rights activists..
> 
> and no...you really didn't answer my question. i don't really think it is a question a zionist can answer, and particularly in general terms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting Ireland must be dissolved because it has no right to exist? I'm shocked!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i am not saying "yay" or "nay: on ireland's right to exist because i have no idea about the idea of right to exist. i am asking a question(s) about the concept and really am not getting  answers. what is particularly frustrating is this board is full of posters and visitors who would scream from the rooftops that israel has a right to exist, and they do scream it, along with many israeli prime-ministers.
> 
> other states/people have also claimed a "right to exist" but that has been a recent phenomenon and basically, they are just following israel's lead. i was curious as to what the right to exist meant initially. now i am curious also as to why those proponents of israel's "right to exist" have little or no idea what it means.
> 
> i don't know why you want to bring ireland into it. i have never heard any irishman say that ireland has a right to exist, nor have i heard  any irishman claim that they have a right to establish a celtic nation on the lands their ancestors had inhabited some 200+ years before the birth of christ, which would be most of southern europe extending all the way to the balkans.. people would think they are crazy.
> 
> sheesh, i could defend israel better than y'all do, and i think a lot of the things they are doing is indefensible.
> 
> now go ahead and don't answer the question. divert some more.
Click to expand...


I answered your question, Princess, but you didn't like the answer.
Those who "scream from the rooftops that Israel has a right to exist" do so in response to those on the adjacent rooftop who are screaming "Israel has no right to exist!"
It's just tit-4-tat.
And while you whine about me having brought Ireland into this discourse, it actually was you (read the bold above) that did so.


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _"The recently published report by an Israeli judge concluding that Israel is not in fact occupying the Palestinian territories  despite a well-established international consensus to the contrary  has provoked mostly incredulity or mirth in Israel and abroad. Israels Annexation Plan » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names_


Too bad counterpunch losers occupationally forgot to supply names of that palistanian shakh, sheikh, sultan, emir, pasha, president, prime-minister of that "palestine" to elevate "occupation-consensus" above the drivel level, of course.


----------



## georgephillip

reabhloideach said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. What countries have expressed that they have the right to exist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> good luck...ir seems like they don't want to touch this one...LOL.
> 
> must be a lot easier to chant the "right to exist" mantra than to sit down and actually explain what it means.
> 
> i am beginning to think that when israel proclaims they have a right to exist, what they really mean is they have the right to deprive others of their existence.
> 
> makes for a good sound bite though...but it wears thin because way too much wool has been pulled over way too many eyes.
Click to expand...

"The US and Israel have demanded further that Palestinians not only recognize *Israel's rights as a state in the international system*, but that they also recognize Israel's abstract 'right to exist,' *a concept that has no place in international law or diplomacy, and a right claimed by no one.* 

"In effect, the US and Israel are demanding that Palestinians not only recognize Israel in the normal fashion of interstate relations, *but also formally accept the legitimacy of their expulsion from their own land.*"

On Israel, the US and Turkey, Noam Chomsky interviewed by Sabahattin Atas

Israel's "right to exist" exists only in the minds of contemporary Zionists and their useful evangelical idiots who believe their "god" gave the Jews all the land between the Mediterranean Sea and Jordan River. They are no better, in a moral sense, than the Arab fundamentalists calling for Israel's extermination.


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"The recently published report by an Israeli judge concluding that Israel is not in fact occupying the Palestinian territories  despite a well-established international consensus to the contrary  has provoked mostly incredulity or mirth in Israel and abroad. Israels Annexation Plan » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names_
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad counterpunch losers occupationally forgot to supply names of that palistanian shakh, sheikh, sultan, emir, pasha, president, prime-minister of that "palestine" to elevate "occupation-consensus" above the drivel level, of course.
Click to expand...

drivel...help Chomsky understand the "non-occupation" you're blathering about:

"On the matter of legitimacy and recognition, once the State of Israel was established in 1948, my feeling has been that it should have the rights of any state in the international system: no more, no less. 

"That includes, specifically, the right to live in peace and security within its recognized international borders, understood to be the pre-June 1967 borders, with minor and mutual adjustments. 

"These rights have been recognized by a very broad international consensus since the mid-1970s, including the major Arab states. The US and Israel, virtually alone, have opposed the international consensus since the mid-1970s, and still do. 

"Since the mid-1970s, the US has vetoed Security Council resolutions calling for a two-state settlement on the international border with full recognition of the rights of Israel and a new Palestinian state, has regularly voted against General Assembly resolutions to this effect (along with Israel, sometimes one or another dependency), and blocked other diplomatic efforts seeking to achieve this goal."

On Israel, the US and Turkey, Noam Chomsky interviewed by Sabahattin Atas

How many additional rights are the heroic Hebrews entitled to?
Do those rights include title to all land between the Mediterranean Sea and Jordan River?
Drivel on.


----------



## irosie91

MrAlwaysRight said:


> Israel wasn't satisified with the Palestinian government recognizing their right to exist; now, the Israeli government wants them to recognize Israel as a theocracy- a "Jewish" state.
> 
> Which would make sense,maybe, if most of Israel's population followed Judaism!




Israel has a right to designate itself a JEWISH COUNTRY   to the same extent that a country populated by muslims has a right to declare itself a  MUSLIM COUNTRY     In fact Israel has the right to restrict citizenship entirely to jews----just as MALDIVES has recently declared that one must be a muslim to be a citizen of that country      Your comments demonstrate the fact that you have a notion that jews should have less rights than non jews   

As to the assertion by some of your ilk that  NO OTHER COUNTRY HAS DECLARED ITS RIGHT TO EXIST-------wrong again      The Declaration of Independence ---ratified in  1776  in Philadelphia was a clear statement  of  THE RIGHT OF THE UNITED STATES TO EXIST          you should learn some history----in fact current events would help too..   
As to who does or does not  "follow judaism"      ----none of your business.       I have worked with many muslims who came to the USA  from self declared  "MUSLIM COUNTRIES"        In fact sometime ago my job included GREETING new comers from those lands-------the first question MANY MANY of them asked was  "where can I buy beer"    Does that mean that  Iran and Pakistan cannot call themselves  "muslim countries"?


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _"The US and Israel have demanded further that Palestinians not only recognize Israel's rights as a state in the international system, but that they also recognize Israel's abstract 'right to exist,' a concept that has no place in international law or diplomacy, and a right claimed by no one._


Ah. Conversely, palistanians don't really need a state, not that they wanted it in the first place, of course!


----------



## patrickcaturday

> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrAlwaysRight said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel wasn't satisified with the Palestinian government recognizing their right to exist; now, the Israeli government wants them to recognize Israel as a theocracy- a "Jewish" state.
> 
> Which would make sense,maybe, if most of Israel's population followed Judaism!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has a right to designate itself a JEWISH COUNTRY   to the same extent that a country populated by muslims has a right to declare itself a  MUSLIM COUNTRY     In fact Israel has the right to restrict citizenship entirely to jews----just as MALDIVES has recently declared that one must be a muslim to be a citizen of that country      Your comments demonstrate the fact that you have a notion that jews should have less rights than non jews
> 
> As to the assertion by some of your ilk that  NO OTHER COUNTRY HAS DECLARED ITS RIGHT TO EXIST-------wrong again      The Declaration of Independence ---ratified in  1776  in Philadelphia was a clear statement  of  THE RIGHT OF THE UNITED STATES TO EXIST          you should learn some history----in fact current events would help too..
> As to who does or does not  "follow judaism"      ----none of your business.       I have worked with many muslims who came to the USA  from self declared  "MUSLIM COUNTRIES"        In fact sometime ago my job included GREETING new comers from those lands-------the first question MANY MANY of them asked was  "where can I buy beer"    Does that mean that  Iran and Pakistan cannot call themselves  "muslim countries"?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



*Your post is truly enlightening and should be an example that we all follow.  The principal that it teaches is simple .  That principal is if you don't have the facts just make it up as you go.

Now let me see if I have the jist of your first paragraph.  You seem to imply that the standard for behavior that countries ( Israel ) should be judged by is set by Muslims, ie if the Muslims do it then it is ok to follow their example.  I am glad to know this I will have to take this into consideration in the future 

You should learn some history before you go throwing stones at others !!! The Declaration of Independence is not so much a document that codifies the right of the United States to exist rather it is a statement that individuals have certain rights that are granted to them by their Creator and that if a government tries to take these right away from them the people have a right to revolution.  Indeed the document refers to the independence of each of the 13 colonies as independent states.
The document which codifies the existance of the United States  was not ratified untill 1789 and it is knowen as the US Constitution.  Check your history before you spout off.* *And that is not a statement of anyones right to exist it is just a contract on how certain people choose to co-exist with each other.*


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"The recently published report by an Israeli judge concluding that Israel is not in fact occupying the Palestinian territories  despite a well-established international consensus to the contrary  has provoked mostly incredulity or mirth in Israel and abroad. Israels Annexation Plan » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names_
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad counterpunch losers occupationally forgot to supply names of that palistanian shakh, sheikh, sultan, emir, pasha, president, prime-minister of that "palestine" to elevate "occupation-consensus" above the drivel level, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _drivel...help Chomsky understand the "non-occupation" you're blathering about:_
Click to expand...

He needs professional help and care, of course, like any Pol Pot admirer.


georgephillip said:


> _"That includes, specifically, the right to live in peace and security within its recognized international borders, understood to be the pre-June 1967 borders, with minor and mutual adjustments._


Chomsky's an asshole (hence his popularity among his bros-in-intellect here) that occupationally forgets that 1967 "borders" have been cease-fire lines (even honorable P F Tinmore knows that!), that so-called WB was under jordanian control, - not recognized, - and Gaza was under egyptian control, - not recognized either. So, what borders can be negotiated with non-recognized controlling entities? Pol Pot knows. Bth., did counterpunch losers supply names of that palistanian shakh, sheikh, sultan, emir, pasha, president, prime-minister of that "palestine" to elevate "occupation-consensus" above the drivel level, yet?


georgephillip said:


> _Do those rights include title to all land between the Mediterranean Sea and Jordan River?_


Cool! Palistanians need humanitarian resettlement not a state, anyway, for their own good, of course.


----------



## irosie91

patrickcaturday said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has a right to designate itself a JEWISH COUNTRY   to the same extent that a country populated by muslims has a right to declare itself a  MUSLIM COUNTRY     In fact Israel has the right to restrict citizenship entirely to jews----just as MALDIVES has recently declared that one must be a muslim to be a citizen of that country      Your comments demonstrate the fact that you have a notion that jews should have less rights than non jews
> 
> As to the assertion by some of your ilk that  NO OTHER COUNTRY HAS DECLARED ITS RIGHT TO EXIST-------wrong again      The Declaration of Independence ---ratified in  1776  in Philadelphia was a clear statement  of  THE RIGHT OF THE UNITED STATES TO EXIST          you should learn some history----in fact current events would help too..
> As to who does or does not  "follow judaism"      ----none of your business.       I have worked with many muslims who came to the USA  from self declared  "MUSLIM COUNTRIES"        In fact sometime ago my job included GREETING new comers from those lands-------the first question MANY MANY of them asked was  "where can I buy beer"    Does that mean that  Iran and Pakistan cannot call themselves  "muslim countries"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Your post is truly enlightening and should be an example that we all follow.  The principal that it teaches is simple .  That principal is if you don't have the facts just make it up as you go.
> 
> Now let me see if I have the jist of your first paragraph.  You seem to imply that the standard for behavior that countries ( Israel ) should be judged by is set by Muslims, ie if the Muslims do it then it is ok to follow their example.  I am glad to know this I will have to take this into consideration in the future
> 
> You should learn some history before you go throwing stones at others !!! The Declaration of Independence is not so much a document that codifies the right of the United States to exist rather it is a statement that individuals have certain rights that are granted to them by their Creator and that if a government tries to take these right away from them the people have a right to revolution.  Indeed the document refers to the independence of each of the 13 colonies as independent states.
> The document which codifies the existance of the United States  was not ratified untill 1789 and it is knowen as the US Constitution.  Check your history before you spout off.* *And that is not a statement of anyones right to exist it is just a contract on how certain people choose to co-exist with each other.*
Click to expand...




     Your response borders on psychotic     I did not mention EMULATING MUSLIM COUNTRIES  ---I simply stated that Israel has the same RIGHTS  that muslim countries
in the middle east have  -----you accept it in muslim countries that they are called "muslim"  countries and therefore should be able to accept Israel as a "jewish country"    That is not  "EMULATION OF ACTION"   that is   "RIGHT TO SELF DESIGNATE"

read the declaration of independence -----it very clearly states that the  people of the 13 colonies have a RIGHT   TO BE    A SEPARATE POLITICAL ENTITY--SEPARATE FROM ENGLIANG       BY ITS  OWN DECREE.   It asserts the right to INDEPENDENCE AS A COUNTRY      The constitution does not-----the constitution details the RIGHTS of the CITIZENS and to some extent the structure of the government.    THE CONSTITUTION DESCRIBES THE USA     In fact it details the notion that the USA is a secular country------It  COULD HAVE DESCRIBED IT AS A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY----and still have been a valid constitution


----------



## High_Gravity

Israel has the right to exist, pretty simple. Even a 4 year old can grasp that concept.


----------



## Jos

Israel has the right to exit


----------



## High_Gravity

Jos said:


> Israel has the right to exit



Come on man.


----------



## Lipush

MrAlwaysRight said:


> The Palestinian government recognizes Israel's right to exist.
> 
> When will Israel recognize Palestine's right to exist?



The Palestinian government is Hamas. Hamas never recognized Israel's right to exist. It's charter says clearly that the organization's target is to destroy Israel.


----------



## Lipush

MrAlwaysRight said:


> Israel wasn't satisified with the Palestinian government recognizing their right to exist; now, the Israeli government wants them to recognize Israel as a theocracy- a "Jewish" state.
> 
> Which would make sense,maybe, if most of Israel's population followed Judaism!




"Jewish state" as a state for the Jewish nation! nothing to do with religion.


----------



## sealadaigh

Lipush said:


> MrAlwaysRight said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel wasn't satisified with the Palestinian government recognizing their right to exist; now, the Israeli government wants them to recognize Israel as a theocracy- a "Jewish" state.
> 
> Which would make sense,maybe, if most of Israel's population followed Judaism!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Jewish state" as a state for the Jewish nation! nothing to do with religion.
Click to expand...


UHHHHHHHHH, YEAH.

and the vatican is a state for the catholic nation...has nothing to do with religion.


----------



## sealadaigh

High_Gravity said:


> Israel has the right to exist, pretty simple. Even a 4 year old can grasp that concept.



come on, man.


----------



## High_Gravity

reabhloideach said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has the right to exist, pretty simple. Even a 4 year old can grasp that concept.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> come on, man.
Click to expand...


Cool story bro.


----------



## sealadaigh

High_Gravity said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has the right to exist, pretty simple. Even a 4 year old can grasp that concept.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> come on, man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cool story bro.
Click to expand...


LOL...it just seems that, for a concept that even a 4 year old can grasp, a lot of adults can't explain it and they are jumping through all kinds of hoops to avoid it.


----------



## High_Gravity

reabhloideach said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> come on, man.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool story bro.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL...it just seems that, for a concept that even a 4 year old can grasp, a lot of adults can't explain it and they are jumping through all kinds of hoops to avoid it.
Click to expand...


Its pretty simple English sweet tits.


----------



## Toro

reabhloideach said:


> just what exactly is it?
> 
> i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of israel and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.
> 
> i mean, who or what gives israel this right to exist? who conferred it upon israel or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? did israel have a right to exist before it became a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?
> 
> does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?
> 
> personally. i have no idea whether israel, or any state, has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.



Israel has a right to exist just as every other nation state on earth has a right to exist.  If you think Israel has no right to exist, then no other nation state has a right to exist.


----------



## Billo_Really

No one should recognize Israel's right to exist until they do the same for the Palestinian's.


----------



## patrickcaturday

> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> patrickcaturday said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Your post is truly enlightening and should be an example that we all follow.  The principal that it teaches is simple .  That principal is if you don't have the facts just make it up as you go.
> 
> Now let me see if I have the jist of your first paragraph.  You seem to imply that the standard for behavior that countries ( Israel ) should be judged by is set by Muslims, ie if the Muslims do it then it is ok to follow their example.  I am glad to know this I will have to take this into consideration in the future
> 
> You should learn some history before you go throwing stones at others !!! The Declaration of Independence is not so much a document that codifies the right of the United States to exist rather it is a statement that individuals have certain rights that are granted to them by their Creator and that if a government tries to take these right away from them the people have a right to revolution.  Indeed the document refers to the independence of each of the 13 colonies as independent states.
> The document which codifies the existance of the United States  was not ratified untill 1789 and it is knowen as the US Constitution.  Check your history before you spout off.* *And that is not a statement of anyones right to exist it is just a contract on how certain people choose to co-exist with each other.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your response borders on psychotic     I did not mention EMULATING MUSLIM COUNTRIES  ---I simply stated that Israel has the same RIGHTS  that muslim countries
> in the middle east have  -----you accept it in muslim countries that they are called "muslim"  countries and therefore should be able to accept Israel as a "jewish country"    That is not  "EMULATION OF ACTION"   that is   "RIGHT TO SELF DESIGNATE"
> 
> read the declaration of independence -----it very clearly states that the  people of the 13 colonies have a RIGHT   TO BE    A SEPARATE POLITICAL ENTITY--SEPARATE FROM ENGLIANG       BY ITS  OWN DECREE.   It asserts the right to INDEPENDENCE AS A COUNTRY      The constitution does not-----the constitution details the RIGHTS of the CITIZENS and to some extent the structure of the government.    THE CONSTITUTION DESCRIBES THE USA     In fact it details the notion that the USA is a secular country------It  COULD HAVE DESCRIBED IT AS A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY----and still have been a valid constitution
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



*You need to discipline yourself more closely in your reading.  I did not state or imply that Israel should emulate Muslim countries.  What I said simply was that the standard that you set for Israel was that if a Muslim country did something then it was alright for Israel to do the same thing.  I made sure to use the word standard not copy as that would have lead to the conclusion that you jumped to anyway.

You also said that I accept it in Muslim countries that they are called " Muslim " countries.  I never made any statement to that effect.  The problem that I have with a country saying that it is a Muslim country, Islamic Republic, or a Jewish State is that these countries almost always declare themselves to be democracies.  They are not at best they can be called theocracies.



Read the Declaration of Independence, I have more times then I actually care to admit.  I studied it along with the US Constitution in college.  It was a year and a half of study and at times it was very tedious but it has proven to be well worth the effort. I Have studied almost all of the great American Political Philosophers of the time and they were indeed GIANTS.  If you read the following quotes from the Declaration you will see that the Founding Fathers wanted to make sure that in it they were not dealing with one country but rather with 13 separate states;*





> For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
> 
> For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever







> He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only


.





> We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do



us declaration of independence wiki - Bing


*It Is interesting to note that in the last quote which completely proves my point by using such phrases as " these colonies " and " free and Independent States the fact that when the term " united States of America ' is used the word united is not capitalized.  These people were word smiths of perfection and they did not do anything without purpose. The lack of capitalization was not a mistake it was used to show that the colonies were united in common opposition to the crown but not that the were one single entity.  You should remember this for later.



Your knowledge of the Constitution is sorely lacking.  It is the founding document of the United States.  here read the preamble;*




> We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.



us constitution wikipedia - Bing

*This preamble has the authority of the people, sets out what it wants to do, and what it hopes to accomplish !!! 



Two things to note the United States did not come into existence until the Constitution was ratification 1790.  You should also note that in the preamble when the term " United States of America " is used the word united is capitalized thus indicating a single entity. *


----------



## sealadaigh

Toro said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> just what exactly is it?
> 
> i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of israel and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.
> 
> i mean, who or what gives israel this right to exist? who conferred it upon israel or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? did israel have a right to exist before it became a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?
> 
> does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?
> 
> personally. i have no idea whether israel, or any state, has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has a right to exist just as every other nation state on earth has a right to exist.  If you think Israel has no right to exist, then no other nation state has a right to exist.
Click to expand...


look...i just asked a question wiyhout a comment.particularly. another poster had respondedd to me on another thread saying that israel had a right to exist as a free state and it struck me as??? i don't know.

i suppose i could phrase thee question a diferent way. what gives italy the right to exist. in the above, everywhere you see "israel", substitute italy.

people are telling me how simple concept it is. try this. did the former state of yugoslovia have a right to exist. did NAZI germany have a right to exist. did south vietnam have a right to exist. does a kurdistan have a right to exist. how about iran. did israel have a right to exist on 1 january, 1948.

as for israel, why does that right to exoist have to be acknowledged over and over again by every tom, dick, and harry before they will enter into peace nefotiations.

and jhere is a kicker that i just thought of right this minute. someone is off chattering about HAMAS not recognising israel's right tto exist (not true...charters mean shite and are old and don't always keep up with the plan...think israeli constitution on that one) when israel doesn't recognise HAMAS, who they themselves helped create to diminish the power of the PLO...and became the elected representaative of the PA when israel refused to negotiate with abbas.

and anyway. apparently what we have here is a simple concept that none of the extraordinarly intelligent and supremely wise zionist posters cannot explain to me, a simplton in what appears to be a samuel beckett like extravaganza...with a cast of thousands.

no one has given me an answer. everyone has danced the avoidance dance...and no where and no way did i ever suggest that israel be treated any differently rom any other state. in fact, just the opposite is true. do you think that israel should be treated like every other state and every other state should be treated like israel?


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"The US and Israel have demanded further that Palestinians not only recognize Israel's rights as a state in the international system, but that they also recognize Israel's abstract 'right to exist,' a concept that has no place in international law or diplomacy, and a right claimed by no one._
> 
> 
> 
> Ah. Conversely, palistanians don't really need a state, not that they wanted it in the first place, of course!
Click to expand...

Or maybe the state a majority of Palestinians preferred in 1948 would've come into existence through free elections instead of ethnic cleansing?

"The 1948 Palestinian exodus, known in Arabic as the Nakba (Arabic: &#1575;&#1604;&#1606;&#1603;&#1576;&#1577;*, an-Nakbah, lit. 'disaster', 'catastrophe', or 'cataclysm'),[1] occurred when approximately *711,000 to 725,000 Palestinian Arabs left, fled or were expelled from their homes*, during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War and the 19471948 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine that preceded it."

1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Surely you remember (fondly?) how one-third of the citizens of Mandate Palestine imposed a Jewish State on the majority of Palestinians by force of arms?


----------



## Toro

reabhloideach said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> just what exactly is it?
> 
> i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of israel and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.
> 
> i mean, who or what gives israel this right to exist? who conferred it upon israel or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? did israel have a right to exist before it became a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?
> 
> does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?
> 
> personally. i have no idea whether israel, or any state, has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has a right to exist just as every other nation state on earth has a right to exist.  If you think Israel has no right to exist, then no other nation state has a right to exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> look...i just asked a question wiyhout a comment.particularly. another poster had respondedd to me on another thread saying that israel had a right to exist as a free state and it struck me as??? i don't know.
> 
> i suppose i could phrase thee question a diferent way. what gives italy the right to exist. in the above, everywhere you see "israel", substitute italy.
> 
> people are telling me how simple concept it is. try this. did the former state of yugoslovia have a right to exist. did NAZI germany have a right to exist. did south vietnam have a right to exist. does a kurdistan have a right to exist. how about iran. did israel have a right to exist on 1 january, 1948.
> 
> as for israel, why does that right to exoist have to be acknowledged over and over again by every tom, dick, and harry before they will enter into peace nefotiations.
> 
> and jhere is a kicker that i just thought of right this minute. someone is off chattering about HAMAS not recognising israel's right tto exist (not true...charters mean shite and are old and don't always keep up with the plan...think israeli constitution on that one) when israel doesn't recognise HAMAS, who they themselves helped create to diminish the power of the PLO...and became the elected representaative of the PA when israel refused to negotiate with abbas.
> 
> and anyway. apparently what we have here is a simple concept that none of the extraordinarly intelligent and supremely wise zionist posters cannot explain to me, a simplton in what appears to be a samuel beckett like extravaganza...with a cast of thousands.
> 
> no one has given me an answer. everyone has danced the avoidance dance...and no where and no way did i ever suggest that israel be treated any differently rom any other state. in fact, just the opposite is true. do you think that israel should be treated like every other state and every other state should be treated like israel?
Click to expand...


I don't think Israel should be treated any different than any other state, and I expect Israel to behave just like any other state.  And just like when any other state is under existential attack, I expect Israel to defend itself.  

When I hear someone say Israel has a right to exist, it is a counter-argument against those who say Israel has no right to the land it occupies.  If Israel has no right to occupy its land, does Italy also not have a right to occupy its land?  The subtext of that argument is that Israel does not have the right to occupy the land because it is Palestinian land, who do have the right to occupy the land.  If Israel has no right to occupy the land, then neither do the Palestinians, and instead it becomes a matter of force and Realpolitik.  One way or the other, I don't really care about the semantics of the argument.  Israel is there.  It exists.  Full-stop.  If they don't have a right to the land, neither does anyone else, including the Palestinians.  So if you criticize the argument that Israel has the right to exist, you have to also criticize the argument that Israel occupies Palestinian land.


----------



## georgephillip

What right does Israel have to occupy Area C?

"The EU notes that the numbers of Palestinians in Area C has shrunk dramatically under Israeli rule to fewer than 150,000, or no more than 6 per cent of the Palestinian population of the West Bank. Settlers now outnumber Palestinians more than two-to-one in Area C.

"Israel could annex nearly two-thirds of the West Bank and still safely confer citizenship on Palestinians there. Adding 150,000 to the existing 1.5 million Palestinian citizens of Israel, a fifth of the population, would not erode the Jewish majority&#8217;s dominance."

Israel&#8217;s Annexation Plan » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names


----------



## Moonglow

US military  units are still occupying parts of Japan and Germany


----------



## Moonglow

Israel has the right to exist because they have claimed that right.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lipush said:


> MrAlwaysRight said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel wasn't satisified with the Palestinian government recognizing their right to exist; now, the Israeli government wants them to recognize Israel as a theocracy- a "Jewish" state.
> 
> Which would make sense,maybe, if most of Israel's population followed Judaism!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Jewish state" as a state for the Jewish nation! nothing to do with religion.
Click to expand...


Unless you want to live in your homeland and you are not Jewish.


----------



## Hossfly

Moonglow said:


> US military  units are still occupying parts of Japan and Germany


Negatron, Moonie. The US Military is in Korea and Germany under the Status Of Forces Agreement (SOFA) which took effect when the occupations were lifted.

status-of-forces agreement


----------



## docmauser1

loinboy said:


> _No one should recognize Israel's right to exist until they do the same for the Palestinian's._


Of course, palistanians are recognized, especially by security agencies around the globe.


----------



## Roudy

MrAlwaysRight said:


> The Palestinian government recognizes Israel's right to exist.
> 
> When will Israel recognize Palestine's right to exist?


I knew it was a sock.


----------



## Roudy

loinboy said:


> No one should recognize Israel's right to exist until they do the same for the Palestinian's.


You guys keep repearing the same crap like a dog chasing its tail.  There was never a country called Palestine.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Interesting. What countries have expressed that they have the right to exist?


Any country that is faced with animals such as Muslims who refuse to acknowledge it's right to exist?


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _Or maybe the state a majority of Palestinians preferred in 1948 would've come into existence through free elections instead of ethnic cleansing?_


In memorable words of the Peel commission "The only solution of tile problem put forward by the Arab Higher Committee was the immediate establishment of all independent Arab Government, which would deal with the 400,000 Jews now in Palestine as it thought fit." It's, of course, an arab understanding of "free elections". hhehe.


georgephillip said:


> _"The 1948 Palestinian exodus, known in Arabic as the Nakba (Arabic: &#1575;&#1604;&#1606;&#1603;&#1576;&#1577;*, an-Nakbah, lit. 'disaster', 'catastrophe', or 'cataclysm') (*stolen from jewish history*),[1] occurred when approximately 711,000 to 725,000 Palestinian Arabs left, fled or were expelled from their homes, during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War and the 19471948 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine that preceded it."_


See, folks, arab understanding of "free elections" turned and bit the former in the ass, deservedly so.


georgephillip said:


> _Surely you remember (fondly?) how one-third of the citizens of Mandate Palestine imposed a Jewish State on the majority of Palestinians by force of arms?_


It's the practical result of the arab understanding of "free elections", of course, bth., noone seems to be holding those major arab immigrant descendants, called palistanians, there against their will. They are perfectly free to explore the world.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one should recognize Israel's right to exist until they do the same for the Palestinian's.
> 
> 
> 
> You guys keep repearing the same crap like a dog chasing its tail.  There was never a country called Palestine.
Click to expand...


Source for quotes: The right to self-determination - IHL

All of the people whose normal place of residence was inside Palestine's international borders that were defined by the League of Nations in 1922 have the right to self determination.



> UN Charter definition
> 
> By virtue of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations, *all peoples have the right freely to determine, without external interference,* their political status and to pursue their economic, social and cultural development, and every State has the duty to respect this right in accordance with the provisions of the Charter.



It was external interference that prevented the Palestinians from exercising their right to self determination.



> It is clearly illegal under international law to deprive a people of their right to self-determination by using forcible actions including use of violence.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> You guys keep repearing the same crap like a dog chasing its tail.  There was never a country called Palestine.


Shove those words up your ass, you racist asshole!


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> _All of the people whose normal place of residence was inside Palestine's international borders that were defined by the League of Nations in 1922 have the right to self determination._


Cool. Arabs "determined themselves", so what?


P F Tinmore said:


> _It was external interference that prevented the Palestinians from exercising their right to self determination._


Palistanians are the result of their own arab self-determination, of course, including crappy shoes. But they may complain that life's not a computer game with a "save/reload". It's funny.


----------



## Roudy

loinboy said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You guys keep repearing the same crap like a dog chasing its tail.  There was never a country called Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Shove those words up your ass, you racist asshole!
Click to expand...

Tee hee!  Oooo, now I'm scared!  You wanna make me, ya IslamoNazi worshipping cocksucker?  Telling the truth about the fact that there never existed a country called "Palestine" OR a Palestinian people is not racist, you dirtbag. There are many Arab leaders and historians that have said that as well.


----------



## Lipush

loinboy said:


> No one should recognize Israel's right to exist until they do the same for the Palestinian's.



Then in that case, it's a never ending cycle.


----------



## Lipush

Roudy said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one should recognize Israel's right to exist until they do the same for the Palestinian's.
> 
> 
> 
> You guys keep repearing the same crap like a dog chasing its tail.  There was never a country called Palestine.
Click to expand...


----------



## sealadaigh

loinboy said:


> No one should recognize Israel's right to exist until they do the same for the Palestinian's.



personally, i think the demand of a "recognition of the right exist" is different than the actual "right to exist" itself, which was what my original question was about, and something no one seems able to explain, opting istead to repeat over and over again, sometimes in what seems like a histrionic frenzy, that israel has one, which i never denied nor affirmed.

i think israel's demand of of the palestinian negotiater's explicit recognition of israel's right to exist is a stalling tactic used to prevent negotion, as well as to interject some sort of israeli dominance into the process. christ, the palestinians are at the table and that is an implicit recognition of israel's right to exist. there is no need to formalise it. that can be done after the negotiations. 

and also, and for what it is worth, the arab league, which includes palestine, has recognised israel in the offer of a peace initiative.

lol...i'm not yelling at you. i'm just frustrated. i agree with you that both sides need to enter any negotiations on an equal basis.

i guess this "right to exist" thing is just out there with no rule, rhyme, reason or condition.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrAlwaysRight said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel wasn't satisified with the Palestinian government recognizing their right to exist; now, the Israeli government wants them to recognize Israel as a theocracy- a "Jewish" state.
> 
> Which would make sense,maybe, if most of Israel's population followed Judaism!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Jewish state" as a state for the Jewish nation! nothing to do with religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unless you want to live in your homeland and you are not Jewish.
Click to expand...

You mean like the Arab Muslim Israelis that comprise 20% of Israeli population, and live in Israel as Israeli citizens with the same exact rights as the Jewish, Christian, Bahaii, and Atheist Israelis?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Jewish state" as a state for the Jewish nation! nothing to do with religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you want to live in your homeland and you are not Jewish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean like the Arab Muslim Israelis that comprise 20% of Israeli population, and live in Israel as Israeli citizens with the same exact rights as the Jewish, Christian, Bahaii, and Atheist Israelis?
Click to expand...


No, I mean all those Palestinians who are not allowed to live in their homeland because they are not Jewish.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you want to live in your homeland and you are not Jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like the Arab Muslim Israelis that comprise 20% of Israeli population, and live in Israel as Israeli citizens with the same exact rights as the Jewish, Christian, Bahaii, and Atheist Israelis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I mean all those Palestinians who are not allowed to live in their homeland because they are not Jewish.
Click to expand...

Have you forgotten that Winstaon Churchill said that the Arabs arrived in hordes from their surrounding impoversighed countries when Isreal had jobs for them?  Perhaps in your mind all those who have crossed over our Southern boarder for jobs are indigenous to the U.S.  Perhaps you can explain to us why the UN said that anyone in the reason for ONLY two years could be considered a refugee.  Does that really make you indigenous to an area?


jt2


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like the Arab Muslim Israelis that comprise 20% of Israeli population, and live in Israel as Israeli citizens with the same exact rights as the Jewish, Christian, Bahaii, and Atheist Israelis?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I mean all those Palestinians who are not allowed to live in their homeland because they are not Jewish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have you forgotten that Winstaon Churchill said that the Arabs arrived in hordes from their surrounding impoversighed countries when Isreal had jobs for them?  Perhaps in your mind all those who have crossed over our Southern boarder for jobs are indigenous to the U.S.  Perhaps you can explain to us why the UN said that anyone in the reason for ONLY two years could be considered a refugee.  Does that really make you indigenous to an area?
> 
> 
> jt2
Click to expand...


Churchill was a drunk, a racist, and a liar.


----------



## Billo_Really

reabhloideach said:


> personally, i think the demand of a "recognition of the right exist" is different than the actual "right to exist" itself, which was what my original question was about, and something no one seems able to explain, opting istead to repeat over and over again, sometimes in what seems like a histrionic frenzy, that israel has one, which i never denied nor affirmed.
> 
> i think israel's demand of of the palestinian negotiater's explicit recognition of israel's right to exist is a stalling tactic used to prevent negotion, as well as to interject some sort of israeli dominance into the process. christ, the palestinians are at the table and that is an implicit recognition of israel's right to exist. there is no need to formalise it. that can be done after the negotiations.
> 
> and also, and for what it is worth, the arab league, which includes palestine, has recognised israel in the offer of a peace initiative.
> 
> lol...i'm not yelling at you. i'm just frustrated. i agree with you that both sides need to enter any negotiations on an equal basis.
> 
> i guess this "right to exist" thing is just out there with no rule, rhyme, reason or condition.


I think this whole "right to exist" thing is a moot point.  They exist already.  They're there.  Israel exists and there isn't a single country in the ME that can do anything about it.  So why all this talk about their right to exist when they're already there?


----------



## P F Tinmore

loinboy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> personally, i think the demand of a "recognition of the right exist" is different than the actual "right to exist" itself, which was what my original question was about, and something no one seems able to explain, opting istead to repeat over and over again, sometimes in what seems like a histrionic frenzy, that israel has one, which i never denied nor affirmed.
> 
> i think israel's demand of of the palestinian negotiater's explicit recognition of israel's right to exist is a stalling tactic used to prevent negotion, as well as to interject some sort of israeli dominance into the process. christ, the palestinians are at the table and that is an implicit recognition of israel's right to exist. there is no need to formalise it. that can be done after the negotiations.
> 
> and also, and for what it is worth, the arab league, which includes palestine, has recognised israel in the offer of a peace initiative.
> 
> lol...i'm not yelling at you. i'm just frustrated. i agree with you that both sides need to enter any negotiations on an equal basis.
> 
> i guess this "right to exist" thing is just out there with no rule, rhyme, reason or condition.
> 
> 
> 
> I think this whole "right to exist" thing is a moot point.  They exist already.  They're there.  Israel exists and there isn't a single country in the ME that can do anything about it.  So why all this talk about their right to exist when they're already there?
Click to expand...


Sure Israel exists. It exists as an occupation.

Does it have the "right" to do that?


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> personally, i think the demand of a "recognition of the right exist" is different than the actual "right to exist" itself, which was what my original question was about, and something no one seems able to explain, opting istead to repeat over and over again, sometimes in what seems like a histrionic frenzy, that israel has one, which i never denied nor affirmed.
> 
> i think israel's demand of of the palestinian negotiater's explicit recognition of israel's right to exist is a stalling tactic used to prevent negotion, as well as to interject some sort of israeli dominance into the process. christ, the palestinians are at the table and that is an implicit recognition of israel's right to exist. there is no need to formalise it. that can be done after the negotiations.
> 
> and also, and for what it is worth, the arab league, which includes palestine, has recognised israel in the offer of a peace initiative.
> 
> lol...i'm not yelling at you. i'm just frustrated. i agree with you that both sides need to enter any negotiations on an equal basis.
> 
> i guess this "right to exist" thing is just out there with no rule, rhyme, reason or condition.
> 
> 
> 
> I think this whole "right to exist" thing is a moot point.  They exist already.  They're there.  Israel exists and there isn't a single country in the ME that can do anything about it.  So why all this talk about their right to exist when they're already there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure Israel exists. It exists as an occupation.
> 
> Does it have the "right" to do that?
Click to expand...

How about these would be occupiers?

Hamas - Council on Foreign Relations


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think this whole "right to exist" thing is a moot point.  They exist already.  They're there.  Israel exists and there isn't a single country in the ME that can do anything about it.  So why all this talk about their right to exist when they're already there?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure Israel exists. It exists as an occupation.
> 
> Does it have the "right" to do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about these would be occupiers?
> 
> Hamas - Council on Foreign Relations
Click to expand...


From your link:



> In the summer of 2007, Hamas tensions with the Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, a Fatah man, came to a head and Hamas routed Fatah supporters, killing many and sending others fleeing to the West Bank. The result was a de facto geographic division of Palestinian-held territory, with Hamas holding sway in Gaza and Fatah maintaining the internationally recognized Palestinian Authority government in the West Bank town of Ramallah.



I guess the CFR did not notice that Fatah lost the elections but still rules the West Bank.

Not a good source.


----------



## patrickcaturday

> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one should recognize Israel's right to exist until they do the same for the Palestinian's.
> 
> 
> 
> You guys keep repearing the same crap like a dog chasing its tail.  There was never a country called Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



*Hey Lipush; 
I just noticed that in the picture that you are using for your sig. line that the Dome of the Rock is gone.  Does that mean that in the rebuilt Jerusalem there will be no place for religious sites or architectual wonders that are not Jewish.  Seems to me that if that is the case your new Jerusalem is racist.
Don't you think if you are going to destroy the Dome you are going to anger a whole lot of people, at least 1.4 billion.  Does that concern you at all.  I thought Israel had promised that it would preserve the holy sites of all the world's religions not just it's own. Care to respond.*


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you want to live in your homeland and you are not Jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like the Arab Muslim Israelis that comprise 20% of Israeli population, and live in Israel as Israeli citizens with the same exact rights as the Jewish, Christian, Bahaii, and Atheist Israelis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I mean all those Palestinians who are not allowed to live in their homeland because they are not Jewish.
Click to expand...

No such thing. 20 percent of Israel population consists of Arab Muslims who have the same rights as their fellow Jewish counterparts, and enjoy the highest standard of living in the middle east compared to other Arab countries. 

True story....


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like the Arab Muslim Israelis that comprise 20% of Israeli population, and live in Israel as Israeli citizens with the same exact rights as the Jewish, Christian, Bahaii, and Atheist Israelis?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I mean all those Palestinians who are not allowed to live in their homeland because they are not Jewish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No such thing. 20 percent of Israel population consists of Arab Muslims who have the same rights as their fellow Jewish counterparts, and enjoy the highest standard of living in the middle east compared to other Arab countries.
> 
> True story....
Click to expand...


Israel has an unusual interpretation of "same rights."

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdeSK1EHUQg]30 sleepless Gaza Jerusalem.divx - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I mean all those Palestinians who are not allowed to live in their homeland because they are not Jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> No such thing. 20 percent of Israel population consists of Arab Muslims who have the same rights as their fellow Jewish counterparts, and enjoy the highest standard of living in the middle east compared to other Arab countries.
> 
> True story....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel has an unusual interpretation of "same rights."
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdeSK1EHUQg]30 sleepless Gaza Jerusalem.divx - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...

That pathetic propoganda video wasn't even taped in Israel, you idiot.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No such thing. 20 percent of Israel population consists of Arab Muslims who have the same rights as their fellow Jewish counterparts, and enjoy the highest standard of living in the middle east compared to other Arab countries.
> 
> True story....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has an unusual interpretation of "same rights."
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdeSK1EHUQg]30 sleepless Gaza Jerusalem.divx - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That pathetic propoganda video wasn't even taped in Israel, you idiot.
Click to expand...


Sakhnin (Arabic: &#1587;&#1582;&#1606;&#1610;&#1606;*; Hebrew: &#1505;&#1463;&#1495;&#1456;'&#1504;&#1460;&#1497;&#1503;** or &#1505;&#1460;&#1499;&#1456;&#1504;&#1460;&#1497;&#1503; Sikhnin) is a city in Israel's North District. It is located in the Lower Galilee, about 23 kilometres (14 mi) east of Acre. Sakhnin was declared a city in 1995. Its population of 25,100[1] is Arab, mostly Muslim with a sizable Christian minority.

In 1976, it became the site of the first Land Day marches, in which six Israeli Arabs were killed by Israeli forces during violent protests of government confiscation of 5,000 acres (20 km2) of Arab-owned land near Sakhnin.

Sakhnin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has an unusual interpretation of "same rights."
> 
> 30 sleepless Gaza Jerusalem.divx - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> That pathetic propoganda video wasn't even taped in Israel, you idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sakhnin (Arabic: &#1587;&#1582;&#1606;&#1610;&#1606;*; Hebrew: &#1505;&#1463;&#1495;&#1456;'&#1504;&#1460;&#1497;&#1503;** or &#1505;&#1460;&#1499;&#1456;&#1504;&#1460;&#1497;&#1503; Sikhnin) is a city in Israel's North District. It is located in the Lower Galilee, about 23 kilometres (14 mi) east of Acre. Sakhnin was declared a city in 1995. Its population of 25,100[1] is Arab, mostly Muslim with a sizable Christian minority.
> 
> In 1976, it became the site of the first Land Day marches, in which six Israeli Arabs were killed by Israeli forces during violent protests of government confiscation of 5,000 acres (20 km2) of Arab-owned land near Sakhnin.
> 
> Sakhnin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

They're objecting the 1967 attack that the Arabs attacked Israel and they lost, and now they want a do over?  Wow, does anybody have a tissue?


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has an unusual interpretation of "same rights."
> 
> 30 sleepless Gaza Jerusalem.divx - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> That pathetic propoganda video wasn't even taped in Israel, you idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sakhnin (Arabic: &#1587;&#1582;&#1606;&#1610;&#1606;*; Hebrew: &#1505;&#1463;&#1495;&#1456;'&#1504;&#1460;&#1497;&#1503;** or &#1505;&#1460;&#1499;&#1456;&#1504;&#1460;&#1497;&#1503; Sikhnin) is a city in Israel's North District. It is located in the Lower Galilee, about 23 kilometres (14 mi) east of Acre. Sakhnin was declared a city in 1995. Its population of 25,100[1] is Arab, mostly Muslim with a sizable Christian minority.
> 
> In 1976, it became the site of the first Land Day marches, in which six Israeli Arabs were killed by Israeli forces during violent protests of government confiscation of 5,000 acres (20 km2) of Arab-owned land near Sakhnin.
> 
> Sakhnin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

Did they interview the 2 million Arabs that say they'd rather live in Israel over any Arab country, including among their "Palestinian" brothers and sisters?  You think they know something about their own brethren?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> That pathetic propoganda video wasn't even taped in Israel, you idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sakhnin (Arabic: &#1587;&#1582;&#1606;&#1610;&#1606;*; Hebrew: &#1505;&#1463;&#1495;&#1456;'&#1504;&#1460;&#1497;&#1503;** or &#1505;&#1460;&#1499;&#1456;&#1504;&#1460;&#1497;&#1503; Sikhnin) is a city in Israel's North District. It is located in the Lower Galilee, about 23 kilometres (14 mi) east of Acre. Sakhnin was declared a city in 1995. Its population of 25,100[1] is Arab, mostly Muslim with a sizable Christian minority.
> 
> In 1976, it became the site of the first Land Day marches, in which six Israeli Arabs were killed by Israeli forces during violent protests of government confiscation of 5,000 acres (20 km2) of Arab-owned land near Sakhnin.
> 
> Sakhnin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They're objecting the 1967 attack that the Arabs attacked Israel and they lost, and now they want a do over?  Wow, does anybody have a tissue?
Click to expand...


That was 1976 not 1967.


----------



## SAYIT

loinboy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> personally, i think the demand of a "recognition of the right exist" is different than the actual "right to exist" itself, which was what my original question was about, and something no one seems able to explain, opting istead to repeat over and over again, sometimes in what seems like a histrionic frenzy, that israel has one, which i never denied nor affirmed.
> 
> i think israel's demand of of the palestinian negotiater's explicit recognition of israel's right to exist is a stalling tactic used to prevent negotion, as well as to interject some sort of israeli dominance into the process. christ, the palestinians are at the table and that is an implicit recognition of israel's right to exist. there is no need to formalise it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No need in YOUR mind but given all the "water under their bridge" or more explicitly, "blood in the water" between the conflicted parties, perhaps the Israelis need it. The fact is, using your line of reasoning, if the "Palestinians" were at the table for serious negotiation, assuring Israel that they accept Israel's right to exist (or whatever spoken reassurance Israel needed along that line) would be a no brainer. It would cost the "Palestinians" nothing to say it, even if they don't mean it. The fact that they won't is both evidence that they aren't serious about the talks or Israel's right to exist and it is the "Pals" who are delaying the talks.
Click to expand...


----------



## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I mean all those Palestinians who are not allowed to live in their homeland because they are not Jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you forgotten that Winstaon Churchill said that the Arabs arrived in hordes from their surrounding impoversighed countries when Isreal had jobs for them?  Perhaps in your mind all those who have crossed over our Southern boarder for jobs are indigenous to the U.S.  Perhaps you can explain to us why the UN said that anyone in the reason for ONLY two years could be considered a refugee.  Does that really make you indigenous to an area?
> 
> 
> jt2
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Churchill was a drunk, a racist, and a liar.
Click to expand...


That, of course, would be the opinion of one such as you, TinHorn, perhaps because Churchill saw your "peaceful" Arab/Muslim comrades as they really are:

'How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.
*No stronger retrograde force exists in the world*. Far from being moribund, *Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.*

-- Sir Winston Churchill (The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 [London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899]).


----------



## P F Tinmore

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you forgotten that Winstaon Churchill said that the Arabs arrived in hordes from their surrounding impoversighed countries when Isreal had jobs for them?  Perhaps in your mind all those who have crossed over our Southern boarder for jobs are indigenous to the U.S.  Perhaps you can explain to us why the UN said that anyone in the reason for ONLY two years could be considered a refugee.  Does that really make you indigenous to an area?
> 
> 
> jt2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Churchill was a drunk, a racist, and a liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That, of course, would be the opinion of one such as you, TinHorn, perhaps because Churchill saw your "peaceful" Arab/Muslim comrades as they really are:
> 
> 'How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
> The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
> A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
> Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.
> *No stronger retrograde force exists in the world*. Far from being moribund, *Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.*
> 
> -- Sir Winston Churchill (The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 [London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899]).
Click to expand...




> perhaps because Churchill saw your "peaceful" Arab/Muslim comrades as they really are:



No, it is because he was a drunk, a racist, and a liar.


----------



## SAYIT

patrickcaturday said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Hey Lipush;
> I just noticed that in the picture that you are using for your sig. line that the Dome of the Rock is gone.  Does that mean that in the rebuilt Jerusalem there will be no place for religious sites or architectual wonders that are not Jewish.  Seems to me that if that is the case your new Jerusalem is racist.
> Don't you think if you are going to destroy the Dome you are going to anger a whole lot of people, at least 1.4 billion.  Does that concern you at all.  I thought Israel had promised that it would preserve the holy sites of all the world's religions not just it's own. Care to respond.*
Click to expand...


Let's see ... you determined that a change in Lipush's sig line can only mean that Israel is about to erase all non-Jewish religious sites from Jerusalem, that "the new Jerusalem" is "racist," and that Lipush is about to destroy the Dome of the Rock.
Frankly, PatCat, despite all your preening, your just a raging friggin' bigoted moron.
Oh, and have a nice day.


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Have you forgotten that Winstaon Churchill said that the Arabs arrived in hordes from their surrounding impoversighed countries when Isreal had jobs for them?  Perhaps in your mind all those who have crossed over our Southern border for jobs are indigenous to the U.S.  Perhaps you can explain to us why the UN said that anyone in the reason for ONLY two years could be considered a refugee.  Does that really make you indigenous to an area?_
> 
> 
> 
> _Churchill was a drunk, a racist, and a liar._
Click to expand...

Everyone, who doesn't dance to the arab tune is either a drunk, a racist, of a liar. It's a non-argument.


----------



## SAYIT

loinboy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> personally, i think the demand of a "recognition of the right exist" is different than the actual "right to exist" itself, which was what my original question was about, and something no one seems able to explain, opting istead to repeat over and over again, sometimes in what seems like a histrionic frenzy, that israel has one, which i never denied nor affirmed.
> 
> i think israel's demand of of the palestinian negotiater's explicit recognition of israel's right to exist is a stalling tactic used to prevent negotion, as well as to interject some sort of israeli dominance into the process. christ, the palestinians are at the table and that is an implicit recognition of israel's right to exist. there is no need to formalise it. that can be done after the negotiations.
> 
> and also, and for what it is worth, the arab league, which includes palestine, has recognised israel in the offer of a peace initiative.
> 
> lol...i'm not yelling at you. i'm just frustrated. i agree with you that both sides need to enter any negotiations on an equal basis.
> 
> i guess this "right to exist" thing is just out there with no rule, rhyme, reason or condition.
> 
> 
> 
> I think this whole "right to exist" thing is a moot point.  They exist already.  They're there.  Israel exists and there isn't a single country in the ME that can do anything about it.  So why all this talk about their right to exist when they're already there?
Click to expand...


A rational thought by LoinCloth! 
Way to go, Princess. 
Indeed Israel already exists so why do the "Palestinians" adamantly refuse to just admit it and move on to more pressing matters?


----------



## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> personally, i think the demand of a "recognition of the right exist" is different than the actual "right to exist" itself, which was what my original question was about, and something no one seems able to explain, opting istead to repeat over and over again, sometimes in what seems like a histrionic frenzy, that israel has one, which i never denied nor affirmed.
> 
> i think israel's demand of of the palestinian negotiater's explicit recognition of israel's right to exist is a stalling tactic used to prevent negotion, as well as to interject some sort of israeli dominance into the process. christ, the palestinians are at the table and that is an implicit recognition of israel's right to exist. there is no need to formalise it. that can be done after the negotiations.
> 
> and also, and for what it is worth, the arab league, which includes palestine, has recognised israel in the offer of a peace initiative.
> 
> lol...i'm not yelling at you. i'm just frustrated. i agree with you that both sides need to enter any negotiations on an equal basis.
> 
> i guess this "right to exist" thing is just out there with no rule, rhyme, reason or condition.
> 
> 
> 
> I think this whole "right to exist" thing is a moot point.  They exist already.  They're there.  Israel exists and there isn't a single country in the ME that can do anything about it.  So why all this talk about their right to exist when they're already there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure Israel exists. It exists as an ocupation.
Click to expand...


Your denials, and those of your hapless "Palestinian" brethren, simply delay the establishment of both peace and a "Palestinian" state, niether of which seem particularly important to either of you.


----------



## docmauser1

loinboy said:


> _Israel exists and there isn't a single country in the ME that can do anything about it.  So why all this talk about their right to exist when they're already there?_


Old arab habits of having something they don't have through plundering and robbery, instead of building and production, just won't die. Hence the reminders, especially in the case of jews, which have been viewed upon as an especially sweet steal.


----------



## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure Israel exists. It exists as an occupation.
> 
> Does it have the "right" to do that?
> 
> 
> 
> How about these would be occupiers?
> 
> Hamas - Council on Foreign Relations
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From your link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the summer of 2007, Hamas tensions with the Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, a Fatah man, came to a head and Hamas routed Fatah supporters, killing many and sending others fleeing to the West Bank. The result was a de facto geographic division of Palestinian-held territory, with Hamas holding sway in Gaza and Fatah maintaining the internationally recognized Palestinian Authority government in the West Bank town of Ramallah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess the CFR did not notice that Fatah lost the elections but still rules the West Bank.
> 
> Not a good source.
Click to expand...


So says the poster who spams this board with camel crap from the self-proclaimed "Voice of Palestine" [PIC]. You are not a good judge of what is a good source, Princess.


----------



## P F Tinmore

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about these would be occupiers?
> 
> Hamas - Council on Foreign Relations
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From your link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the summer of 2007, Hamas tensions with the Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, a Fatah man, came to a head and Hamas routed Fatah supporters, killing many and sending others fleeing to the West Bank. The result was a de facto geographic division of Palestinian-held territory, with Hamas holding sway in Gaza and Fatah maintaining the internationally recognized Palestinian Authority government in the West Bank town of Ramallah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess the CFR did not notice that Fatah lost the elections but still rules the West Bank.
> 
> Not a good source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So says the poster who spams this board with camel crap from the self-proclaimed "Voice of Palestine" [PIC]. You are not a good judge of what is a good source, Princess.
Click to expand...


Either they completely missed something so obvious or they are pimping propaganda.


----------



## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From your link:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess the CFR did not notice that Fatah lost the elections but still rules the West Bank.
> 
> Not a good source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So says the poster who spams this board with camel crap from the self-proclaimed "Voice of Palestine" [PIC]. You are not a good judge of what is a good source, Princess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Either they completely missed something so obvious or they are pimping propaganda.
Click to expand...


I repeat: as one who regularly spams this board with camel crap from the self-proclaimed "Voice of Palestine" [PIC], you are not a good judge of what constitutes a good source, Princess.


----------



## P F Tinmore

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> So says the poster who spams this board with camel crap from the self-proclaimed "Voice of Palestine" [PIC]. You are not a good judge of what is a good source, Princess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Either they completely missed something so obvious or they are pimping propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I repeat: as one who regularly spams this board with camel crap from the self-proclaimed "Voice of Palestine" [PIC], you are not a good judge of what constitutes a good source, Princess.
Click to expand...


It has nothing to do with me. Their information is incorrect.


----------



## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Either they completely missed something so obvious or they are pimping propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I repeat: as one who regularly spams this board with camel crap from the self-proclaimed "Voice of Palestine" [PIC], you are not a good judge of what constitutes a good source, Princess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with me. Their information is incorrect.
Click to expand...


So much so that you felt compelled to chop off what they said, eh Princess?
You are so obvious and sooooo lame.


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> _Sure Israel exists. It exists as an occupation._


Memorable words of our honorable P F Tinmore "Why do you keep saying that the Arabs lost? They never lost anything." confirm our thesis that occupation is palistanian vocation and avocation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> I repeat: as one who regularly spams this board with camel crap from the self-proclaimed "Voice of Palestine" [PIC], you are not a good judge of what constitutes a good source, Princess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with me. Their information is incorrect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So much so that you felt compelled to chop off what they said, eh Princess?
> You are so obvious and sooooo lame.
Click to expand...


What do you mean?


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Or maybe the state a majority of Palestinians preferred in 1948 would've come into existence through free elections instead of ethnic cleansing?_
> 
> 
> 
> In memorable words of the Peel commission "The only solution of tile problem put forward by the Arab Higher Committee was the immediate establishment of all independent Arab Government, which would deal with the 400,000 Jews now in Palestine as it thought fit." It's, of course, an arab understanding of "free elections". hhehe.
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"The 1948 Palestinian exodus, known in Arabic as the Nakba (Arabic: &#1575;&#1604;&#1606;&#1603;&#1576;&#1577;*, an-Nakbah, lit. 'disaster', 'catastrophe', or 'cataclysm') (*stolen from jewish history*),[1] occurred when approximately 711,000 to 725,000 Palestinian Arabs left, fled or were expelled from their homes, during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War and the 19471948 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine that preceded it."_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See, folks, arab understanding of "free elections" turned and bit the former in the ass, deservedly so.
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Surely you remember (fondly?) how one-third of the citizens of Mandate Palestine imposed a Jewish State on the majority of Palestinians by force of arms?_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's the practical result of the arab understanding of "free elections", of course, bth., noone seems to be holding those major arab immigrant descendants, called palistanians, there against their will. They are perfectly free to explore the world.
Click to expand...

Yo, drivel...do you mean this Peel Commission?

"The Arab leadership in Palestine rejected the plan,[6][7] arguing that the Arabs had been promised independence and granting rights to the Jews was a betrayal. *The Arabs emphatically rejected the principle of awarding any territory to the Jews..."*

"At the same Zionist Congress in Zurich, David Ben-Gurion, then chairman of the executive committee of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, told those in attendance that, though '*there could be no question ... of giving up any part of the Land of Israel*,... it was arguable *that the ultimate goal would be achieved most quickly by accepting the Peel proposals*.'[11] 

"University of Arizona professor Charles D. Smith suggests that, 'Weizmann and Ben-Gurion did not feel they had to be bound by the borders proposed [by the Peel Commission]. *These could be considered temporary boundaries to be expanded in the future*.'[11]

"Ben-Gurion wrote: '*The compulsory transfer of the Arabs from the valleys* of the proposed Jewish state could give us something which we have never had, even when we stood on our own during the days of the First and Second Temples: [*a Galilee almost free of non-Jews*]. ... We are being given an opportunity which we never dared to dream of in our wildest imagination. This is more than a state, government and sovereignty---*this is a national consolidation in a free homeland*. ... if because of our weakness, neglect or negligence, the thing is not done, then we will have lost a chance which we never had before, and may never have again.'"[12]

"A Galilee almost free of non-Jews"
"Compulsory transfer of Arabs..."
Does that not sound like ethnic cleansing to you?

Peel Commission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Lipush

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrAlwaysRight said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel wasn't satisified with the Palestinian government recognizing their right to exist; now, the Israeli government wants them to recognize Israel as a theocracy- a "Jewish" state.
> 
> Which would make sense,maybe, if most of Israel's population followed Judaism!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Jewish state" as a state for the Jewish nation! nothing to do with religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unless you want to live in your homeland and you are not Jewish.
Click to expand...


20% of Israeli community are Arabs. not including foreigners.

There are many None Jews in Israel. What's your point?


----------



## Hossfly

patrickcaturday said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Hey Lipush;
> I just noticed that in the picture that you are using for your sig. line that the Dome of the Rock is gone.  Does that mean that in the rebuilt Jerusalem there will be no place for religious sites or architectual wonders that are not Jewish.  Seems to me that if that is the case your new Jerusalem is racist.
> Don't you think if you are going to destroy the Dome you are going to anger a whole lot of people, at least 1.4 billion.  Does that concern you at all.  I thought Israel had promised that it would preserve the holy sites of all the world's religions not just it's own. Care to respond.*
Click to expand...

Patrick, haven't you read some of the posts where I constantly mention the fact that my tribe (Manasseh) will one day raze that big 'ol yaller ugly looking thing as well as that Al Aqsa pig sty? Those suckers are going down.


----------



## Lipush

patrickcaturday said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Hey Lipush;
> I just noticed that in the picture that you are using for your sig. line that the Dome of the Rock is gone.  Does that mean that in the rebuilt Jerusalem there will be no place for religious sites or architectual wonders that are not Jewish.  Seems to me that if that is the case your new Jerusalem is racist.
> Don't you think if you are going to destroy the Dome you are going to anger a whole lot of people, at least 1.4 billion.  Does that concern you at all.  I thought Israel had promised that it would preserve the holy sites of all the world's religions not just it's own. Care to respond.*
Click to expand...


The dome was built upon the destrcution of the holy Temple. That's a opening point and a pure fact. taking that to mind, we follow the Palestinian-Arab-Muslim baseless claim that it was the other way around and that the wall of tears, as they call the Kotel, is a Jewish attemp to show a none-exiting connection between the Jews and the sites of Jerusalem.

The wish of the Jews, since time immemorial, was to rebuilt the third temple exactly as it was since forever. It can be built with Al Aqsa on it's side, or without it. That is up to them. But at some point, it will be rebuilt.


----------



## georgephillip

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> That pathetic propoganda video wasn't even taped in Israel, you idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sakhnin (Arabic: &#1587;&#1582;&#1606;&#1610;&#1606;*; Hebrew: &#1505;&#1463;&#1495;&#1456;'&#1504;&#1460;&#1497;&#1503;** or &#1505;&#1460;&#1499;&#1456;&#1504;&#1460;&#1497;&#1503; Sikhnin) is a city in Israel's North District. It is located in the Lower Galilee, about 23 kilometres (14 mi) east of Acre. Sakhnin was declared a city in 1995. Its population of 25,100[1] is Arab, mostly Muslim with a sizable Christian minority.
> 
> In 1976, it became the site of the first Land Day marches, in which six Israeli Arabs were killed by Israeli forces during violent protests of government confiscation of 5,000 acres (20 km2) of Arab-owned land near Sakhnin.
> 
> Sakhnin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They're objecting the 1967 attack that the Arabs attacked Israel and they lost, and now they want a do over?  Wow, does anybody have a tissue?
Click to expand...

Why don't you raise that question at the next convention of_ Liberty_ survivors?

*"The USS Liberty incident* was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy torpedo boats, on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War.[2] *The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members* (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and one civilian), wounded 170 crew members, and severely damaged the ship."

USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

btw, Israel struck first in '67.
Ask the Egyptian Air Force.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lipush said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Jewish state" as a state for the Jewish nation! nothing to do with religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you want to live in your homeland and you are not Jewish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 20% of Israeli community are Arabs. not including foreigners.
> 
> There are many None Jews in Israel. What's your point?
Click to expand...


Do those "Arabs" own the same land, homes, farms, factories, etc. that they owned before Israel took over their country?


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Churchill was a drunk, a racist, and a liar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That, of course, would be the opinion of one such as you, TinHorn, perhaps because Churchill saw your "peaceful" Arab/Muslim comrades as they really are:
> 
> 'How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
> The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
> A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
> Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.
> *No stronger retrograde force exists in the world*. Far from being moribund, *Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.*
> 
> -- Sir Winston Churchill (The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 [London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899]).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> perhaps because Churchill saw your "peaceful" Arab/Muslim comrades as they really are:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it is because he was a drunk, a racist, and a liar.
Click to expand...

Now if he would have said anything negative about Jews or Israel, Tinmore would be posting his quotes twice a day.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you want to live in your homeland and you are not Jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20% of Israeli community are Arabs. not including foreigners.
> 
> There are many None Jews in Israel. What's your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do those "Arabs" own the same land, homes, farms, factories, etc. that they owned before Israel took over their country?
Click to expand...

They own whatever they want to own. Just like you can own whatever you want to own in the US, regardless.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> They own whatever they want to own. Just like you can own whatever you want to own in the US, regardless.


And if you wanna own somethin', that's already owned by someone else...


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sakhnin (Arabic: &#1587;&#1582;&#1606;&#1610;&#1606;*; Hebrew: &#1505;&#1463;&#1495;&#1456;'&#1504;&#1460;&#1497;&#1503;** or &#1505;&#1460;&#1499;&#1456;&#1504;&#1460;&#1497;&#1503; Sikhnin) is a city in Israel's North District. It is located in the Lower Galilee, about 23 kilometres (14 mi) east of Acre. Sakhnin was declared a city in 1995. Its population of 25,100[1] is Arab, mostly Muslim with a sizable Christian minority.
> 
> In 1976, it became the site of the first Land Day marches, in which six Israeli Arabs were killed by Israeli forces during violent protests of government confiscation of 5,000 acres (20 km2) of Arab-owned land near Sakhnin.
> 
> Sakhnin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> They're objecting the 1967 attack that the Arabs attacked Israel and they lost, and now they want a do over?  Wow, does anybody have a tissue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why don't you raise that question at the next convention of_ Liberty_ survivors?
> 
> *"The USS Liberty incident* was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy torpedo boats, on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War.[2] *The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members* (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and one civilian), wounded 170 crew members, and severely damaged the ship."
> 
> USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> btw, Israel struck first in '67.
> Ask the Egyptian Air Force.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's the IslamoNazi tagline, which is far from the truth. And so are their tired old  allegations on the Liberty. Over 20.000 acts of IslamoNazi terror and murder of Americans, and all they do is repeat the same old propaganda and lies. They're running on empty, no actually, it's fart fumes.


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Have you forgotten that Winstaon Churchill said that the Arabs arrived in hordes from their surrounding impoversighed countries when Isreal had jobs for them?  Perhaps in your mind all those who have crossed over our Southern border for jobs are indigenous to the U.S.  Perhaps you can explain to us why the UN said that anyone in the reason for ONLY two years could be considered a refugee.  Does that really make you indigenous to an area?_
> 
> 
> 
> _Churchill was a drunk, a racist, and a liar._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everyone, who doesn't dance to the arab tune is either a drunk, a racist, of a liar. It's a non-argument.
Click to expand...

*Or a war criminal*

Unless 1-2 million German civilians don't fit into your argument?

World War II casualties - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Lipush

Hossfly said:


> patrickcaturday said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hey Lipush;
> I just noticed that in the picture that you are using for your sig. line that the Dome of the Rock is gone.  Does that mean that in the rebuilt Jerusalem there will be no place for religious sites or architectual wonders that are not Jewish.  Seems to me that if that is the case your new Jerusalem is racist.
> Don't you think if you are going to destroy the Dome you are going to anger a whole lot of people, at least 1.4 billion.  Does that concern you at all.  I thought Israel had promised that it would preserve the holy sites of all the world's religions not just it's own. Care to respond.*
> 
> 
> 
> Patrick, haven't you read some of the posts where I constantly mention the fact that my tribe (Manasseh) will one day raze that big 'ol yaller ugly looking thing as well as that Al Aqsa pig sty? Those suckers are going down.
Click to expand...


----------



## Roudy

loinboy said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> They own whatever they want to own. Just like you can own whatever you want to own in the US, regardless.
> 
> 
> 
> And if you wanna own somethin', that's already owned by someone else...
Click to expand...

Duh. You want to be a farm or factory owner you work and create a situation where you can be one.


----------



## Lipush

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you want to live in your homeland and you are not Jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20% of Israeli community are Arabs. not including foreigners.
> 
> There are many None Jews in Israel. What's your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do those "Arabs" own the same land, homes, farms, factories, etc. that they owned before Israel took over their country?
Click to expand...


Depends on the case.

I am willing to bet, though, that those that do, got it on account of a poor Jew who lost it to them.


----------



## Roudy

Lipush said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> patrickcaturday said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hey Lipush;
> I just noticed that in the picture that you are using for your sig. line that the Dome of the Rock is gone.  Does that mean that in the rebuilt Jerusalem there will be no place for religious sites or architectual wonders that are not Jewish.  Seems to me that if that is the case your new Jerusalem is racist.
> Don't you think if you are going to destroy the Dome you are going to anger a whole lot of people, at least 1.4 billion.  Does that concern you at all.  I thought Israel had promised that it would preserve the holy sites of all the world's religions not just it's own. Care to respond.*
> 
> 
> 
> Patrick, haven't you read some of the posts where I constantly mention the fact that my tribe (Manasseh) will one day raze that big 'ol yaller ugly looking thing as well as that Al Aqsa pig sty? Those suckers are going down.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

God Bless the Manasseh!


----------



## Billo_Really

Hossfly said:


> Patrick, haven't you read some of the posts where I constantly mention the fact that my tribe (Manasseh) will one day raze that big 'ol yaller ugly looking thing as well as that Al Aqsa pig sty? Those suckers are going down.


Which proves Israel is a racist and apartheid state.


----------



## Roudy

Hossfly said:


> patrickcaturday said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hey Lipush;
> I just noticed that in the picture that you are using for your sig. line that the Dome of the Rock is gone.  Does that mean that in the rebuilt Jerusalem there will be no place for religious sites or architectual wonders that are not Jewish.  Seems to me that if that is the case your new Jerusalem is racist.
> Don't you think if you are going to destroy the Dome you are going to anger a whole lot of people, at least 1.4 billion.  Does that concern you at all.  I thought Israel had promised that it would preserve the holy sites of all the world's religions not just it's own. Care to respond.*
> 
> 
> 
> Patrick, haven't you read some of the posts where I constantly mention the fact that my tribe (Manasseh) will one day raze that big 'ol yaller ugly looking thing as well as that Al Aqsa pig sty? Those suckers are going down.
Click to expand...

Viva Manasseh!


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Duh. You want to be a farm or factory owner you work and create a situation where you can be one.


Talk about an incoherent statement...


----------



## Billo_Really

docmauser1 said:


> Old arab habits of having something they don't have through plundering and robbery, instead of building and production, just won't die. Hence the reminders, especially in the case of jews, which have been viewed upon as an especially sweet steal.


Oh, shut-up!  You fuckin' stole most of the land in the first place.


----------



## Billo_Really

SAYIT said:


> A rational thought by LoinCloth!
> Way to go, Princess.
> Indeed Israel already exists so why do the "Palestinians" adamantly refuse to just admit it and move on to more pressing matters?


That's a separate issue. 

 That's about recognizing Palestinian existance, something Israel refuses to do.


----------



## Lipush

roudy said:


> lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> patrick, haven't you read some of the posts where i constantly mention the fact that my tribe (manasseh) will one day raze that big 'ol yaller ugly looking thing as well as that al aqsa pig sty? Those suckers are going down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> god bless the manasseh!
Click to expand...


:d


----------



## Lipush

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Patrick, haven't you read some of the posts where I constantly mention the fact that my tribe (Manasseh) will one day raze that big 'ol yaller ugly looking thing as well as that Al Aqsa pig sty? Those suckers are going down.
> 
> 
> 
> Which proves Israel is a racist and apartheid state.
Click to expand...


The Palestinians teach their children that the "wall of tears" is deciet, that it has no meaning and will be destroyed, but the fact that we want the Temple insteado of what was destroyed, makes US apartheid?

Right.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Yeah that's the IslamoNazi tagline, which is far from the truth. And so are their tired old  allegations on the Liberty. Over 20.000 acts of IslamoNazi terror and murder of Americans, and all they do is repeat the same old propaganda and lies. They're running on empty, no actually, it's fart fumes.


The Israeli general who commanded IDF soldiers in that '67 war, disagrees with you.


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> The Palestinians teach their children that the "wall of tears" is deciet, that it has no meaning and will be destroyed, but the fact that we want the Temple insteado of what was destroyed, makes US apartheid?
> 
> Right.


I don't see them tearing down jewish temples, but I do see you tearing down mosque's.


----------



## Lipush

loinboy said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians teach their children that the "wall of tears" is deciet, that it has no meaning and will be destroyed, but the fact that we want the Temple insteado of what was destroyed, makes US apartheid?
> 
> Right.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see them tearing down jewish temples, but I do see you tearing down mosque's.
Click to expand...


Which mosque are we tearing down?

And the Holy Temple destruction's are underneeth their mosque. They lie and say we are decieving the public to believe we have connection to the city.

We don't bring down their mosque. They try to paint history. How come they are the righteous gang here? they base their claims and religion on lies.


----------



## georgephillip

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 20% of Israeli community are Arabs. not including foreigners.
> 
> There are many None Jews in Israel. What's your point?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do those "Arabs" own the same land, homes, farms, factories, etc. that they owned before Israel took over their country?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They own whatever they want to own. Just like you can own whatever you want to own in the US, regardless.
Click to expand...

The Torah doesn't forbid the selling of a house or a field in the USA to a foreigner.
How about Israel?

"JERUSALEM (AFP) &#1567; Fifty Israeli rabbis have signed an open letter warning Jews not to rent or sell property to non-Jews, saying those who do should be 'ostracised,' a copy of the letter showed on Tuesday.

"'In answer to the many questions, *we say that it is forbidden in the Torah to sell a house or a field in the land of Israel to a foreigner*,' says the letter, referring to the Pentateuch -- the first five books of the Bible.

"The letter, which was signed mostly by *state-employed rabbis*, warns that 'he who sells or rents them a flat in an area where Jews live causes great harm to his neighbours.'

"'After someone sells or rents just one flat, the value of all the neighbouring flats drops... He who sells or rents (to non-Jews) causes his neighbours a big loss and his sin is great,' the letter said, in what was largely understood *to refer to Israel's Arab minority*.

"'Anyone who sells (property to a non-Jew) must be cut off!!'"

What do you suppose the good rabbi meant by "cut off"?
Sounds painful and just a little authoritarian.

'Don't rent to non-Jews,' Israeli rabbis warn


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 20% of Israeli community are Arabs. not including foreigners.
> 
> There are many None Jews in Israel. What's your point?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do those "Arabs" own the same land, homes, farms, factories, etc. that they owned before Israel took over their country?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They own whatever they want to own. Just like you can own whatever you want to own in the US, regardless.
Click to expand...


That sidesteps my post.


----------



## sealadaigh

Lipush said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Patrick, haven't you read some of the posts where I constantly mention the fact that my tribe (Manasseh) will one day raze that big 'ol yaller ugly looking thing as well as that Al Aqsa pig sty? Those suckers are going down.
> 
> 
> 
> Which proves Israel is a racist and apartheid state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians teach their children that the "wall of tears" is deciet, that *it has no meaning and will be destroyed, but the fact that we want the Temple insteado of what was destroyed, makes US apartheid?*Right.
Click to expand...



yeah. it does.


----------



## georgephillip

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're objecting the 1967 attack that the Arabs attacked Israel and they lost, and now they want a do over?  Wow, does anybody have a tissue?
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you raise that question at the next convention of_ Liberty_ survivors?
> 
> *"The USS Liberty incident* was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy torpedo boats, on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War.[2] *The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members* (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and one civilian), wounded 170 crew members, and severely damaged the ship."
> 
> USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> btw, Israel struck first in '67.
> Ask the Egyptian Air Force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah that's the IslamoNazi tagline, which is far from the truth. And so are their tired old  allegations on the Liberty. Over 20.000 acts of IslamoNazi terror and murder of Americans, and all they do is repeat the same old propaganda and lies. They're running on empty, no actually, it's fart fumes.
Click to expand...

*Who's the Islamo and who's the Nazi, Moshe or Menachem?
*
"In a 1997 New York Times interview, Moshe Dayan, *defense minister during the 1967* war, explained that Israeli settlers '*greed for the land*' led them to provoke the Syrian army to shoot at them, opening the way for the Israeli invasion and seizure of the Golan Heights.

"Likewise, the main casus belli for the warEgypts closing of the Straits of Tiran and its military buildup in the Sinaiamounted more to bluff than threat. 

"In a 1982 speech to the Israeli National Defense College, then-Prime Minister Menachem Begin said: 'The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that [Egyptian President] Nasser was about to attack us. *We must be honest with ourselves*. We decided to attack him.'"

How the Six Day War Changed the Middle East » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

Maybe you should start being honest?
Tell me if the following is a lie:

"Following their torpedo attack, the (Israeli) torpedo boats moved up and down the length of the ship (both the port and starboard sides), continuing their attack, raking the (_USS Liberty_) with cannon and machine gun fire..."

"Survivors also report that the torpedo boat crews *fired on the inflated life boats* launched by the crew after the captain gave the order 'prepare to abandon ship.'[24] This order had to be rescinded because the crew was unable to stand on the main deck without being fired upon and the life rafts were destroyed as they were launched."

USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events

*Fart fumes or war crimes?*


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> patrickcaturday said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hey Lipush;
> I just noticed that in the picture that you are using for your sig. line that the Dome of the Rock is gone.  Does that mean that in the rebuilt Jerusalem there will be no place for religious sites or architectual wonders that are not Jewish.  Seems to me that if that is the case your new Jerusalem is racist.
> Don't you think if you are going to destroy the Dome you are going to anger a whole lot of people, at least 1.4 billion.  Does that concern you at all.  I thought Israel had promised that it would preserve the holy sites of all the world's religions not just it's own. Care to respond.*
> 
> 
> 
> Patrick, haven't you read some of the posts where I constantly mention the fact that my tribe (Manasseh) will one day raze that big 'ol yaller ugly looking thing as well as that Al Aqsa pig sty? Those suckers are going down.
Click to expand...

Are you sure that tribe isn't Manassas, Hoss?

"First Battle of Bull Run, also known as First Manassas (the name used by Confederate forces), was fought on July 21, 1861, in Prince William County, Virginia, near the city of Manassas. *It was the first major land battle of the (First) American Civil War.*"

Jus askin'

First Battle of Bull Run - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Churchill was a drunk, a racist, and a liar.[/size][/i]
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone, who doesn't dance to the arab tune is either a drunk, a racist, of a liar. It's a non-argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Or a war criminal_
Click to expand...

Or a liberty driveler.


----------



## docmauser1

loinboy said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Old arab habits of having something they don't have through plundering and robbery, instead of building and production, just won't die. Hence the reminders, especially in the case of jews, which have been viewed upon as an especially sweet steal.
> 
> 
> 
> _Oh, shut-up!  You fuckin' stole most of the land in the first place._
Click to expand...

Sue me.


----------



## docmauser1

loinboy said:


> _That's about recognizing Palestinian existance, something Israel refuses to do._


Everyone recognizes palistanians.


----------



## Hollie

docmauser1 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> _That's about recognizing Palestinian existance, something Israel refuses to do._
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone recognizes palistanians.
Click to expand...


Sure. They're Jordanians, Egyptians and Syrians whose countrymen are not going to be burdened with whiners and serial welfare cheats.


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _Fart fumes or war crimes?_


The former, naturally, as always.


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _"The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy torpedo boats, on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War. The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and one civilian), wounded 170 crew members, and severely damaged the ship."_


The frequency with which the USS Liberty is keeping popping up through the waves makes one suspect arabski-talking money keeping that flying dutchman afloat, indeed.


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> patrickcaturday said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hey Lipush;
> I just noticed that in the picture that you are using for your sig. line that the Dome of the Rock is gone.  Does that mean that in the rebuilt Jerusalem there will be no place for religious sites or architectual wonders that are not Jewish.  Seems to me that if that is the case your new Jerusalem is racist.
> Don't you think if you are going to destroy the Dome you are going to anger a whole lot of people, at least 1.4 billion.  Does that concern you at all.  I thought Israel had promised that it would preserve the holy sites of all the world's religions not just it's own. Care to respond.*
> 
> 
> 
> Patrick, haven't you read some of the posts where I constantly mention the fact that my tribe (Manasseh) will one day raze that big 'ol yaller ugly looking thing as well as that Al Aqsa pig sty? Those suckers are going down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you sure that tribe isn't Manassas, Hoss?
> 
> "First Battle of Bull Run, also known as First Manassas (the name used by Confederate forces), was fought on July 21, 1861, in Prince William County, Virginia, near the city of Manassas. *It was the first major land battle of the (First) American Civil War.*"
> 
> Jus askin'
> 
> First Battle of Bull Run - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

We are Mnashshiy. Prophesied to build the 3rd Temple. Which means the horse stable and pigsty has to go. Stay tuned.


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _"JERUSALEM (AFP)Fifty Israeli rabbis have signed an open letter warning Jews not to rent or sell property to non-Jews, saying those who do should be 'ostracised,' a copy of the letter showed on Tuesday. ..._


Arabs and AFP are, understandably, pissed with this display of equality. Arabs can, why not jews?


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _Yo, drivel...do you mean this Peel Commission?_


The Peel commission isn't drivel, of course, unlike the garbage my faithful opposition produces.


georgephillip said:


> _"The Arab leadership in Palestine rejected the plan,[6][7] arguing that the Arabs had been promised independence and granting rights to the Jews was a betrayal. The Arabs emphatically rejected the principle of awarding any territory to the Jews..."_


We're well aware of the fact that arab greed is proverbial, of course, expecially if something is already developed and is in a dire need of halal expropriation. Bth., what Lawrence of Arabia promised it all to them?


georgephillip said:


> _"University of Arizona professor Charles D. Smith suggests that, 'Weizmann and Ben-Gurion did not feel they had to be bound by the borders proposed [by the Peel Commission]. These could be considered temporary boundaries to be expanded in the future.'_


"Suggests", or sure?


georgephillip said:


> _"Ben-Gurion wrote: 'The compulsory transfer of the Arabs from the valleys of the proposed Jewish state could give us something which we have never had, even when we stood on our own during the days of the First and Second Temples: ...
> "A Galilee almost free of non-Jews"
> "Compulsory transfer of Arabs..."
> Does that not sound like ethnic cleansing to you?_


But of course, not. Of course, if our honorable georgephillip wants to elevate it to the level of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, then it's another story. But we're about the Peel report here, which says in part 3, chapter 21-10 "If Partition is to be effective in promoting a final settlement it must mean more than drawing a frontier and establishing two States. Sooner or later there should be a transfer of land and, as far as possible, an exchange of population."
Dooh!


georgephillip said:


> _Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia_


Wikipedia Galactica! Such authority!


----------



## Roudy

loinboy said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Old arab habits of having something they don't have through plundering and robbery, instead of building and production, just won't die. Hence the reminders, especially in the case of jews, which have been viewed upon as an especially sweet steal.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, shut-up!  You fuckin' stole most of the land in the first place.
Click to expand...

Eat shit. They never owned this land and how could Israelis steal their own ancestral homeland? Plenty of Arab Muslim shitholes, only ONE Israel.


----------



## Roudy

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Patrick, haven't you read some of the posts where I constantly mention the fact that my tribe (Manasseh) will one day raze that big 'ol yaller ugly looking thing as well as that Al Aqsa pig sty? Those suckers are going down.
> 
> 
> 
> Which proves Israel is a racist and apartheid state.
Click to expand...


Your repeating the same shit without a shred of proof only proves one thing, that you're a fucking illiterate ignorant moron.


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone, who doesn't dance to the arab tune is either a drunk, a racist, of a liar. It's a non-argument.
> 
> 
> 
> _Or a war criminal_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or a liberty driveler.
Click to expand...

*Heroic Hebrews, maybe...*

"By patching together different systems, the ship's radio operators had ultimately been able to send a brief distress message that was received and acknowledged by United States Sixth Fleet forces present in the Mediterranean.[26] 

"Upon receipt of that message the aircraft carriers USS Saratoga and USS America each launched aircraft to come to the aid of USS Liberty.[27] The reported attacking aircraft were declared hostile and the rescue aircraft were authorized to destroy them upon arrival.[28] 

"The rules of engagement, authorizing destruction of the attackers, were transmitted to the rescue aircraft 'in the clear' (i.e., they were not encrypted).

"Shortly after the Sixth Fleet transmission of the rules of engagement to its dispatched rescue aircraft, *the Israeli torpedo boats suddenly broke off their attack* and transmitted messages asking if USS Liberty required assistance..."

"At about the same time as the cessation of the torpedo boat attack, Israeli attack helicopters arrived over the ship.[32] Survivors report that the helicopters were packed with men in combat battle dress. The Captain of USS Liberty gave the order to *'prepare to repel boarders*'[33] but the helicopters departed without attempting to land their troops."

Maybe the IDF has always preferred rock-throwing children or pregnant women?

USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Fart fumes or war crimes?_
> 
> 
> 
> The former, naturally, as always.
Click to expand...

*Without war crimes, the Jewish State does not exist.*

"A secret document prepared for the Israeli foreign ministry in 1967, which was made public only recently, showed that the highest reaches of the Israeli establishment knew that its *settlement policies in the Occupied Territories violated the Geneva Accords*, according to the Guardian."

Luckily you got that "strategic asset" thing working for you...
Right, Fart Fumes?

http://www.counterpunch.org/2007/06/08/how-the-six-day-war-changed-the-middle-east/


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy torpedo boats, on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War. The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and one civilian), wounded 170 crew members, and severely damaged the ship."_
> 
> 
> 
> The frequency with which the USS Liberty is keeping popping up through the waves makes one suspect arabski-talking money keeping that flying dutchman afloat, indeed.
Click to expand...

"The next literary reference, which introduces the *motif of punishment for a crime*, was in John Leyden (1775&#8211;1811): Scenes of Infancy (Edinburgh, 1803):

"It is a common superstition of mariners, that, in the high southern latitudes on the coast of Africa, hurricanes are frequently ushered in by the appearance of a spectre-ship, denominated the Flying Dutchman ... *The crew of this vessel are supposed to have been guilty of some dreadful crime*, in the infancy of navigation; and to have been stricken with pestilence ... and are ordained still to traverse the ocean on which they perished, till the period of their penance expire."

What dreadful crime in the infancy of civilization has the Hebrews worried?
Slavery, usury, genocide...?
$urely Ha$bara know$

Flying Dutchman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> _That's about recognizing Palestinian existance, something Israel refuses to do._
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone recognizes palistanians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure. They're Jordanians, Egyptians and Syrians whose countrymen are not going to be burdened with whiners and serial welfare cheats.
Click to expand...


And besides, when did it become their job to clean up after Israel?


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone recognizes palistanians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure. They're Jordanians, Egyptians and Syrians whose countrymen are not going to be burdened with whiners and serial welfare cheats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And besides, when did it become their job to clean up after Israel?
Click to expand...



It has never been their job to take care of their own  -----it has been their job to USE their own as an excuse to  attack, murder, rape, pillage and exploit.     In fact----the GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST   was justified on the fact of  "attacks on islam"    If a country did not HONOR ISLAM ABOVE ALL THINGS----that was considered an "attack on islam"   and a good reason to invade, rape, pillage and conquor ---and exploit.     It is a very interesting history      Always remember-------THE ISLAMIC ATTACK ON SOUTHERN FRANCE AND UPON SICILY  was fully justfied because those areas    "INSULTED ISLAM"    then there was Persia, and Constantinople and lots of parts of the "holy" Roman empire------etc etc etc -----ALL JUSTIFIABLY RAPED AND PILLAGED------even India


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"JERUSALEM (AFP)Fifty Israeli rabbis have signed an open letter warning Jews not to rent or sell property to non-Jews, saying those who do should be 'ostracised,' a copy of the letter showed on Tuesday. ..._
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs and AFP are, understandably, pissed with this display of equality. Arabs can, why not jews?
Click to expand...

Why would Arab Israelis refuse to rent to Jews?


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _"A secret document prepared for the Israeli foreign ministry in 1967, which was made public only recently, showed that the highest reaches of the Israeli establishment knew that its settlement policies in the Occupied Territories violated the Geneva Accords, according to the Guardian."_


Where's the "secret document"?


georgephillip said:


> _Luckily you got that "strategic asset" thing working for you...Right, Fart Fumes?_


The Socialist Worker? The Socialist Worker!? No, seriously, The SOCIALIST WORKER!!?? Absolute drivel and fart fumes!


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Fart fumes or war crimes?_
> 
> 
> 
> The former, naturally, as always.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Without war crimes, the Jewish State does not exist.*
> 
> "A secret document prepared for the Israeli foreign ministry in 1967, which was made public only recently, showed that the highest reaches of the Israeli establishment knew that its *settlement policies in the Occupied Territories violated the Geneva Accords*, according to the Guardian."
> 
> Luckily you got that "strategic asset" thing working for you...
> Right, Fart Fumes?
> 
> How the Six Day War Changed the Middle East » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names
Click to expand...

Oh but it exists, and quite prosperous and successful at that, and without your stupid false allegations and claims of "war crimes", get it, MOHOMOOD?


----------



## Roudy

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"A secret document prepared for the Israeli foreign ministry in 1967, which was made public only recently, showed that the highest reaches of the Israeli establishment knew that its settlement policies in the Occupied Territories violated the Geneva Accords, according to the Guardian."_
> 
> 
> 
> Where's the "secret document"?
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Luckily you got that "strategic asset" thing working for you...Right, Fart Fumes?_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Socialist Worker? The Socialist Worker!? No, seriously, The SOCIALIST WORKER!!?? Absolute drivel and fart fumes!
Click to expand...

Yes he got it from a very reputable website called www.Marxist-NeoNazi-IslamoNazi-Asslicker.com.


----------



## Billo_Really

docmauser1 said:


> Everyone recognizes palistanians.


How can you recognize it, you can't even spell it?


----------



## Hossfly

docmauser1 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> _That's about recognizing Palestinian existance, something Israel refuses to do._
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone recognizes palistanians.
Click to expand...

By sight or smell?


----------



## Hossfly

loinboy said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone recognizes palistanians.
> 
> 
> 
> How can you recognize it, you can't even spell it?
Click to expand...

P-a-l-i-s-i-m-i-a-n-s.  How dat?


----------



## Hossfly

loinboy said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone recognizes palistanians.
> 
> 
> 
> How can you recognize it, you can't even spell it?
Click to expand...

This dictionary has a long but easy to understand definition:

Urban Dictionary: Fakestinian


----------



## Billo_Really

Hossfly said:


> P-a-l-i-s-i-m-i-a-n-s.  How dat?


Close enough.


----------



## Roudy

Hossfly said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone recognizes palistanians.
> 
> 
> 
> How can you recognize it, you can't even spell it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This dictionary has a long but easy to understand definition:
> 
> Urban Dictionary: Fakestinian
Click to expand...

...aka Paleshitians aka terroristinians aka Falastini. If you're gonna fabricate a people and national identity, you might as well call yourself by a name that best fits your cowardly depraved mentality and culture.


----------



## docmauser1

loinboy said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone recognizes palistanians.
> 
> 
> 
> _How can you recognize it, you can't even spell it?_
Click to expand...

If security services around the globe recognize them, so can we, of course.
We should clarify an important distiction, though. Palestinians were jews and arabs with what not in between and around, who could then legally reside in the mandate palestine. Palestinian meant citizenship. After 1948 palestinians ceased to exist. Everything was more or less decent till about 1964, when a mythical palistanian people and nation emerged under the occupational bullshitt of Yassir Arafat, bankrolled by the soviet money and promoted by soviet propaganda. In memorable words of John Bolton "Legal scholars have debated for years whether the Fourth Geneva Convention even applies to the West Bank and Gaza. In fact, Arab diplomats have boasted that one of their key objectives immediately after the Six-Day War was to make the term "occupied territories" the standard nomenclature to describe these lands..'"
See, it isn't that hard to recognize them, folks.


----------



## Billo_Really

docmauser1 said:


> If security services around the globe recognize them, so can we, of course.
> We should clarify an important distiction, though. Palestinians were jews and arabs with what not in between and around, who could then legally reside in the mandate palestine. Palestinian meant citizenship. After 1948 palestinians ceased to exist. Everything was more or less decent till about 1964, when a mythical palistanian people and nation emerged under the occupational bullshitt of Yassir Arafat, bankrolled by the soviet money and promoted by soviet propaganda. In memorable words of John Bolton "Legal scholars have debated for years whether the Fourth Geneva Convention even applies to the West Bank and Gaza. In fact, Arab diplomats have boasted that one of their key objectives immediately after the Six-Day War was to make the term "occupied territories" the standard nomenclature to describe these lands..'"
> See, it isn't that hard to recognize them, folks.


Drivel (your favorite word).


----------



## sealadaigh

Roudy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can you recognize it, you can't even spell it?
> 
> 
> 
> This dictionary has a long but easy to understand definition:
> 
> Urban Dictionary: Fakestinian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...aka Paleshitians aka terroristinians aka Falastini. If you're gonna fabricate a people and national identity, you might as well call yourself by a name that best fits your cowardly depraved mentality and culture.
Click to expand...


i could probably have a lot of fun with humourous word play hased upon the various breakdowns of jewish groups...ashekenazi, sephardic, hasidic, mizrahi, etc. but that would be rude and boorish of me, not to mention racist. such behaviour is par for the course for you, i suppose.

they say that puns are the lowest form of humour so it seems that your posts fits well with your charactor. please, by all means, continue.

being jewish, and as jews are such a small group, your behaviour reflects poorly on them. that is unfortunate and unfair, and certainly all people do not judge all jews based upon the actions of a few...i don't...but a lot of people do. it just is. every single time you open your yap, i imagine ernst zundel and david duke smiling down on you and giving you their blessing. you certainly make their work easier. it would not surprise me one single bit if you have turned more people into anti-semites than they have. the fact that some jewish posters accept your behaviour surprises me more.

if you were irish, i would rip you a new one.

(and hoss...you're better than that, you and i are vets in the finest branch of the finest military in the world. let's try to conduct ourselves with the decorum and dignity that experience has imparted on us, sarge.l you don't have to act like a tough guy. you are a tough guy. thanks. redleg out.)


----------



## docmauser1

loinboy said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If security services around the globe recognize them, so can we, of course.
> We should clarify an important distiction, though. Palestinians were jews and arabs with what not in between and around, who could then legally reside in the mandate palestine. Palestinian meant citizenship. After 1948 palestinians ceased to exist. Everything was more or less decent till about 1964, when a mythical palistanian people and nation emerged under the occupational bullshitt of Yassir Arafat, bankrolled by the soviet money and promoted by soviet propaganda. In memorable words of John Bolton "Legal scholars have debated for years whether the Fourth Geneva Convention even applies to the West Bank and Gaza. In fact, Arab diplomats have boasted that one of their key objectives immediately after the Six-Day War was to make the term "occupied territories" the standard nomenclature to describe these lands..'"
> See, it isn't that hard to recognize them, folks.
> 
> 
> 
> _Drivel (your favorite word)._
Click to expand...

Stolen from docmauser1, of course. Similarly, palistanians, which in all honesty have neither national history, nor national memory, nor national conscience make their history up and steal from others. Damn, even koran is stolen and bastardized jewish bible.


----------



## Hossfly

reabhloideach said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> This dictionary has a long but easy to understand definition:
> 
> Urban Dictionary: Fakestinian
> 
> 
> 
> ...aka Paleshitians aka terroristinians aka Falastini. If you're gonna fabricate a people and national identity, you might as well call yourself by a name that best fits your cowardly depraved mentality and culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i could probably have a lot of fun with humourous word play hased upon the various breakdowns of jewish groups...ashekenazi, sephardic, hasidic, mizrahi, etc. but that would be rude and boorish of me, not to mention racist. such behaviour is par for the course for you, i suppose.
> 
> they say that puns are the lowest form of humour so it seems that your posts fits well with your charactor. please, by all means, continue.
> 
> being jewish, and as jews are such a small group, your behaviour reflects poorly on them. that is unfortunate and unfair, and certainly all people do not judge all jews based upon the actions of a few...i don't...but a lot of people do. it just is. every single time you open your yap, i imagine ernst zundel and david duke smiling down on you and giving you their blessing. you certainly make their work easier. it would not surprise me one single bit if you have turned more people into anti-semites than they have. the fact that some jewish posters accept your behaviour surprises me more.
> 
> if you were irish, i would rip you a new one.
> 
> (and hoss...you're better than that, you and i are vets in the finest branch of the finest military in the world. let's try to conduct ourselves with the decorum and dignity that experience has imparted on us, sarge.l you don't have to act like a tough guy. you are a tough guy. thanks. redleg out.)
Click to expand...

Garry Owen!


----------



## Roudy

reabhloideach said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> This dictionary has a long but easy to understand definition:
> 
> Urban Dictionary: Fakestinian
> 
> 
> 
> ...aka Paleshitians aka terroristinians aka Falastini. If you're gonna fabricate a people and national identity, you might as well call yourself by a name that best fits your cowardly depraved mentality and culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i could probably have a lot of fun with humourous word play hased upon the various breakdowns of jewish groups...ashekenazi, sephardic, hasidic, mizrahi, etc. but that would be rude and boorish of me, not to mention racist. such behaviour is par for the course for you, i suppose.
> 
> they say that puns are the lowest form of humour so it seems that your posts fits well with your charactor. please, by all means, continue.
> 
> being jewish, and as jews are such a small group, your behaviour reflects poorly on them. that is unfortunate and unfair, and certainly all people do not judge all jews based upon the actions of a few...i don't...but a lot of people do. it just is. every single time you open your yap, i imagine ernst zundel and david duke smiling down on you and giving you their blessing. you certainly make their work easier. it would not surprise me one single bit if you have turned more people into anti-semites than they have. the fact that some jewish posters accept your behaviour surprises me more.
> 
> if you were irish, i would rip you a new one.
> 
> (and hoss...you're better than that, you and i are vets in the finest branch of the finest military in the world. let's try to conduct ourselves with the decorum and dignity that experience has imparted on us, sarge.l you don't have to act like a tough guy. you are a tough guy. thanks. redleg out.)
Click to expand...

I don't represent Jewish people, idiot. All I represent is the art of pissing on IslamoNazi assholes like yourself. As usual you talk too much and all of it is babble and psychotic nonsense.


----------



## Roudy

docmauser1 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If security services around the globe recognize them, so can we, of course.
> We should clarify an important distiction, though. Palestinians were jews and arabs with what not in between and around, who could then legally reside in the mandate palestine. Palestinian meant citizenship. After 1948 palestinians ceased to exist. Everything was more or less decent till about 1964, when a mythical palistanian people and nation emerged under the occupational bullshitt of Yassir Arafat, bankrolled by the soviet money and promoted by soviet propaganda. In memorable words of John Bolton "Legal scholars have debated for years whether the Fourth Geneva Convention even applies to the West Bank and Gaza. In fact, Arab diplomats have boasted that one of their key objectives immediately after the Six-Day War was to make the term "occupied territories" the standard nomenclature to describe these lands..'"
> See, it isn't that hard to recognize them, folks.
> 
> 
> 
> _Drivel (your favorite word)._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stolen from docmauser1, of course. Similarly, palistanians, which in all honesty have neither national history, nor national memory, nor national conscience make their history up and steal from others. Damn, even koran is stolen and bastardized jewish bible.
Click to expand...

Well said. Problem is there isn't a Palestine or a Palestinian people in the Koran either.


----------



## Liability

reabhloideach said:


> just what exactly is it?
> 
> i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of israel and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.
> 
> i mean, who or what gives israel this right to exist? who conferred it upon israel or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? did israel have a right to exist before it became a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?
> 
> does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?
> 
> personally. i have no idea whether israel, or any state, has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.



Now there's ^ some Fucking dopey faux philosophy.

Who gives ANY nation a right to exist?

Does the author of the OP imagine that there has to be a consensus of some kind before a people can declare that they exist and refuse to just quietly die?


----------



## georgephillip

It's the Occupation, Stupid

Who gave Judea and Samaria to the "Chosen People", their god, of course.
Now that's Fucking dopey, right, Lil'Bitchity?
Do you imagine the Jews' dopey religion justifies genocide?
Sure you do.
Stupid.


----------



## Hossfly

Storm said:


> These are some of the teachings of Judaism on pedophilia from their holiest book, the Talmud:
> 
> &#8220;When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing.&#8221; (Keth 11b)
> 
> &#8220;A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.&#8221; (Sanh 54b)
> 
> R.abbi Joseph said: &#8220;Come and hear! A maiden aged three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition and if her deceased husband&#8217;s brother cohabits with her, she becomes his.&#8221; (Sanh. 55b)
> 
> &#8220;A girl who is three years of age and one day may be betrothed by cohabitation. &#8220; .(Yeb. 57b)
> 
> &#8220;A maiden aged three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition, and if her deceased husband&#8217;s brother cohabited with her she becomes his.&#8221; (Sanh. 69a, 69b, also discussed in Yeb. 60b)
> 
> It was taught: Rabbi Simeon b. Yohai stated: A proselyte who is under the age of three years and one day is permitted to marry a priest, for it is said, But all the women children that have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves, and Phineas (who was priest, the footnote says) surely was with them. (Yeb. 60b)
> 
> . "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated." (9boda Sarah 37a)
> 
> "A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl." (7ad. Shas. 2:2)
> 
> "A Jew may do to a non-Jewess what he can do. He may treat her as he treats a piece of meat." (Hadarine, 20, B; Schulchan 9ruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348)
> 
> "A Jew may misuse the non-Jewess in her state of unbelief." (Maimonides, Jak. Chasaka 2:2)
> 
> The truth will set you free from your delusions.
> 
> The Ashkenazi Jews who invaded Palestine circa 1946 from Europe and Russia are Talmudic Jews, they are NOT descended from the Israelites, they are NOT God's "chosen people" and Jesus is NOT coming back to "save" them.


Do you have pictures to go with these proverbs. You're getting Tinmore horny.


----------



## Hossfly

Storm said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stolen from docmauser1, of course. Similarly, palistanians, which in all honesty have neither national history, nor national memory, nor national conscience make their history up and steal from others. Damn, even koran is stolen and bastardized jewish bible.
> 
> 
> 
> Well said. Problem is there isn't a Palestine or a Palestinian people in the Koran either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish occupation population hails from European Talmudic Jews.
> 
> They are in now way related to the ancient israelites.
> 
> Moron.
Click to expand...

Calling Doc a moron is not good.


----------



## sealadaigh

Liability said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> just what exactly is it?
> 
> i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of israel and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.
> 
> i mean, who or what gives israel this right to exist? who conferred it upon israel or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? did israel have a right to exist before it became a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?
> 
> does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?
> 
> personally. i have no idea whether israel, or any state, has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now there's ^ some Fucking dopey faux philosophy.
> 
> Who gives ANY nation a right to exist?
> 
> Does the author of the OP imagine that there has to be a consensus of some kind before a people can declare that they exist and refuse to just quietly die?
Click to expand...


LOL...it was just a question that seems to have prompted a lot of histrionic non-answers.

israel always uses it, especially when it is time to negotiate peace. i think maybe it means "we don't want peace. we want to stall and continue to steal land in the west bank."

about five years ago, zionists/jews were saying that they had no designs on the west bank, that the settlements could be dismantled, that the apartheid wall was not a de facto border and could be moved, and on and on and on. now, those very same people are cheering and high fiving and saying judea and samaria is rightfully israel's and part of the promised land...and wondering why syria and jordan and iraq hate them...they are the "next in lines." i'd be worried if i were a state neighbouring israel.

had i believed them at the time, i would be furious today instead, i find it tragically laughable because the other people who did believe it are now coming to me and asking what the hell happened, and asking what  they can do.

what happened...what is happening? that whole damn place is falling apart at the seams. you all cannot even live with each other. your own kind. your answer to everything is blow it up, burn it down, or spray paint the hell out of it. jews even vandalised their own holocaust musem. emigration is exceeding immigration and israel is coming up with all kinds of schemes to maintain their hegemony.

here is a little clue. when you are in a constant state of war and refuse to negotiate a peace that provides a viable homeland for the palestinians, many of the people with enough money, the successful people who are the foundation of a successful state, are going to pack it up and follow helen thomas' good advice, it seems, and head back to western europe. so are a lot of the successful sabras, an important part of israeli history and a link to their past. your foundation is eroding.

then, in order to maintain their hegemony over israeli arabs, the israeli foreign ministry will do one of their hocus pocus dealios to attract more citizens, and end up importing people like armed ne'er do wells from brooklyn and neo-nazis with swastika tattoos from russia and make YHWH's promised land like some dante-esque tenth circle of hell.(think "escape from new york" with yarmulkes and teffilins.)

maybe you can do  one of thse fake airlift thingies...do a quick snip snip on some somali warlords, declare them a lost tribe, promise them a land of ilk and honey and underage girls for their pleasure from the sex slave trade and there ya go.

that's the facts, jack. good people are walking away and being replaced by people with a thug and hoodlum mentality...and that is what is being portrayed as "the homeland of the jews."

so i think i will take a moment to be furious, if you'll excuse me. you guys (zionists and jews) had a chance and most of the world supported and prayed for you at one time...and you fooked up your golden opportunity beyond any and aall comprehension or recognition, simply because you weren't satisfied with what you had. you know what i say is true and it is clear from the palpable desperation in your responses. my god, you call arabs animals and display the worst kind of bigotry. you laugh when their children are killed and excuse atrocities, war crimes, and acts of genocide at the drop of a hat. what kind of depraved human beings are you.

there ya go, buds. i recognised your existence. happy? truth hurts.


----------



## Billo_Really

Let's get one thing straight in regards to the OP,


*"Nations don't have rights, 
people do!"​*


----------



## Liability

georgephillip said:


> It's the Occupation, Stupid
> 
> Who gave Judea and Samaria to the "Chosen People", their god, of course.
> Now that's Fucking dopey, right, Lil'Bitchity?
> Do you imagine the Jews' dopey religion justifies genocide?
> Sure you do.
> Stupid.



gorgieporgie;

Your stupidity as as boundless as your effort to be clever is ineffectual.  

I said not one word about God.  That's your bugaboo, ya bigoted dip shit motherfucker.

And I don't think anything justifies genocide, but then again, you're the asshole who pretends that Israel has ever engaged in anything of the kind, you fully dishonest fuck-wit cock-bite.

Go suck more dick.


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _Who gave Judea and Samaria to the "Chosen People", their god, of course._


Cool, so, what god promised palistanians anything?


----------



## Liability

Storm said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Who gave Judea and Samaria to the "Chosen People", their god, of course._
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, so, what god promised palistanians anything?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nobody needs to. Killing people under the assertion that your "god" gave you the land so its ok, is disgusting and criminal.
> 
> Believe me, the world pitties the Palestinians,...not the Jews....
> 
> 
> Except in America, which Israel controls with dual citizens.
Click to expand...


A bunch of bigoted anti-Semites (referencing those who simply hate Jews) pity the fake Palestinian people merely because they cannot see objectively past their own bigotry.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel has the right to exist where?

Inside the proposed resolution 181 borders that never became borders?

Inside the 1949 armistice agreement lines that were specifically not to be borders?

Inside the Eretz Israel borders that are, in fact, Palestine's international borders?

Israel has no borders, so where exactly does Israel have the right to exist?


----------



## Liability

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel has the right to exist where?
> 
> Inside the proposed resolution 181 borders that never became borders?
> 
> Inside the 1949 armistice agreement lines that were specifically not to be borders?
> 
> Inside the Eretz Israel borders that are, in fact, Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Israel has no borders, so where exactly does Israel have the right to exist?



Fraudulent polemics don't win debate points.

Israel already exists.

The boundaries and borders may be up for some (mostly academic) discussion.

But that doesn't alter the fact that it is a nation and that it has a concomitant right to exist.


----------



## sealadaigh

Liability said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's the Occupation, Stupid
> 
> Who gave Judea and Samaria to the "Chosen People", their god, of course.
> Now that's Fucking dopey, right, Lil'Bitchity?
> Do you imagine the Jews' dopey religion justifies genocide?
> Sure you do.
> Stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gorgieporgie;
> 
> Your stupidity as as boundless as your effort to be clever is ineffectual.
> 
> I said not one word about God.  That's your bugaboo, ya bigoted dip shit motherfucker.
> 
> And I don't think anything justifies genocide, but then again, you're the asshole who pretends that Israel has ever engaged in anything of the kind, you fully dishonest fuck-wit cock-bite.
> 
> Go suck more dick.
Click to expand...


my, my, my...another satisfied customer.

genocide, by international law, is defined as acts with the intent of destroying an ethnic, national, racial, or religios groups...in part or whole.

israelis do that. it can be an act as simple as depriving the bedouins of water or the indescriminate shelling of the palestinians of gaza, or in the case of the israeli government, turning her back on the terrorising of peoples.

it is of course arguable whether what is occurring is genocide, but it was rarely even called that as little as three years ago. it is being called that with more and more frequency today.

now, you may believe that the palestinians can survive on the droppings from israel's table. i do not. i am beginning to think the genocide is a fait accompli
the only thing that can prevent it is israel, the very same people who are causing it.

ya may want to work on that vulgarity and anger if you are trying to win adherents to your position. i am sure it doesn't bother george there, or most of the people who read your post. we've been through far worse and outlasted tougher guys then you, but one of those snake charming, holy book thumpers might not take too kindly to it.

now you sound like you've had a hard day so let carry some of your load for you, my brother. my stupidity is also as boundless as my effort to be clever is ineffectual. there ya go, gang boss. a little less typing you have to do.

later bud...david duke thanks you for making his job easier, jesus loves you...and lord knows, i'm tryin'.


----------



## docmauser1

Storm said:


> _Maybe he should think before he posts racist propaganda, and blatantly throws around hasbara conjecture._


We aren't having some obscene UN-sponsored politically correct palistanian bullshit-fest convention on marketing and sales of their mythical millenial history here, of course.


----------



## Liability

reabhloideach said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's the Occupation, Stupid
> 
> Who gave Judea and Samaria to the "Chosen People", their god, of course.
> Now that's Fucking dopey, right, Lil'Bitchity?
> Do you imagine the Jews' dopey religion justifies genocide?
> Sure you do.
> Stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gorgieporgie;
> 
> Your stupidity as as boundless as your effort to be clever is ineffectual.
> 
> I said not one word about God.  That's your bugaboo, ya bigoted dip shit motherfucker.
> 
> And I don't think anything justifies genocide, but then again, you're the asshole who pretends that Israel has ever engaged in anything of the kind, you fully dishonest fuck-wit cock-bite.
> 
> Go suck more dick.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> my, my, my...another satisfied customer.
> 
> genocide, by international law, is defined as acts with the intent of destroying an ethnic, national, racial, or religios groups...in part or whole.
> 
> israelis do that. it can be an act as simple as depriving the bedouins of water or the indescriminate shelling of the palestinians of gaza, or in the case of the israeli government, turning her back on the terrorising of peoples.
> 
> it is of course arguable whether what is occurring is genocide, but it was rarely even called that as little as three years ago. it is being called that with more and more frequency today.
> 
> now, you may believe that the palestinians can survive on the droppings from israel's table. i do not. i am beginning to think the genocide is a fait accompli
> the only thing that can prevent it is israel, the very same people who are causing it.
> 
> ya may want to work on that vulgarity and anger if you are trying to win adherents to your position. i am sure it doesn't bother george there, or most of the people who read your post. we've been through far worse and outlasted tougher guys then you, but one of those snake charming, holy book thumpers might not take too kindly to it.
> 
> now you sound like you've had a hard day so let carry some of your load for you, my brother. my stupidity is also as boundless as my effort to be clever is ineffectual. there ya go, gang boss. a little less typing you have to do.
> 
> later bud...david duke thanks you for making his job easier, jesus loves you...and lord knows, i'm tryin'.
Click to expand...


So, as I correctly said, Israel has never engaged in ANY conduct rationally labeled as "genocidal."

When a bunch of fuckers insist on trying to kill you, fighting back is *not* genocide or attempted genocide, you mindless bigoted scumbag cock sucking pinhead motherfuckers.

Amen.


----------



## Hossfly

Storm said:


> There is only one nationality on the planet that is allowed to legally hold dual-American citizenship. ONLY Israelis can be citizens of both Israel and the United States! How&#8217;s that for favoritism, hubris, and political control?
> 
> What a bunch of controlled hypocrites we are in this country. And again, we see an example of how the International Jewish Crime Network has put a stranglehold on American politics.
> 
> When&#8217;s the last time you heard of a dual Mexican-American? How about a dual Russian-American? Where can I find a dual Filipino-American?
> 
> The answer is you can&#8217;t. It is technically against U.S. law to hold dual citizenship. But Israel automatically grants citizenship to any Jew worldwide. All that is needed is proof of Jewish heritage. And Jewish lineage is determined on the maternal line. If your mother is Jewish then you are Jewish.


Oh?

List of Dual Citizenship Countries | eHow.com


----------



## irosie91

Liability said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has the right to exist where?
> 
> Inside the proposed resolution 181 borders that never became borders?
> 
> Inside the 1949 armistice agreement lines that were specifically not to be borders?
> 
> Inside the Eretz Israel borders that are, in fact, Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Israel has no borders, so where exactly does Israel have the right to exist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fraudulent polemics don't win debate points.
> 
> Israel already exists.
> 
> The boundaries and borders may be up for some (mostly academic) discussion.
> 
> But that doesn't alter the fact that it is a nation and that it has a concomitant right to exist.
Click to expand...


There is a reality---the reality is that the country called Israel does exist------and another reality is that its borders are yet to be determined     In the past 64 years----the arabs and the entire  "islamic world"   has refused to recognize borders leaving that issue to  BE DETERMINED       The longer they resist the idea of borders-----the more dissatisfied they will be with the final determination


----------



## Liability

irosie91 said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has the right to exist where?
> 
> Inside the proposed resolution 181 borders that never became borders?
> 
> Inside the 1949 armistice agreement lines that were specifically not to be borders?
> 
> Inside the Eretz Israel borders that are, in fact, Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Israel has no borders, so where exactly does Israel have the right to exist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fraudulent polemics don't win debate points.
> 
> Israel already exists.
> 
> The boundaries and borders may be up for some (mostly academic) discussion.
> 
> But that doesn't alter the fact that it is a nation and that it has a concomitant right to exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a reality---the reality is that the country called Israel does exist------and another reality is that its borders are yet to be determined     In the past 64 years----the arabs and the entire  "islamic world"   has refused to recognize borders leaving that issue to  BE DETERMINED       The longer they resist the idea of borders-----the more dissatisfied they will be with the final determination
Click to expand...



Israel does exist.

You could have stopped right there.  Border disputes are not the end of the world.

But the fact of the existence of Israel as one of the nations of Earth appears to be viewed as an alarming "end of the world" fact to many bigots and *Islamic assholes*.  (Redundancy acknowledged.)


----------



## docmauser1

Storm said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Who gave Judea and Samaria to the "Chosen People", their god, of course._
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, so, what god promised palistanians anything?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Nobody needs to. Killing people under the assertion that your "god" gave you the land so its ok, is disgusting and criminal._
Click to expand...

That's what palistanians do.


Storm said:


> _Believe me, the world pitties the Palestinians,...not the Jews...._


How come that "world" doesn't want palistanians in their neghborhood?


----------



## sealadaigh

Liability said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has the right to exist where?
> 
> Inside the proposed resolution 181 borders that never became borders?
> 
> Inside the 1949 armistice agreement lines that were specifically not to be borders?
> 
> Inside the Eretz Israel borders that are, in fact, Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Israel has no borders, so where exactly does Israel have the right to exist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fraudulent polemics don't win debate points.
> 
> Israel already exists.
> 
> The boundaries and borders may be up for some (mostly academic) discussion.
> 
> But that doesn't alter the fact that it is a nation and that it has a concomitant right to exist.
Click to expand...


LOL...the guy who accuses me of "some Fucking dopey faux philosophy" for asking the question throws "concomitant" into the mix. now that's a pretty high falutin' word there, cowboy. hells bells. i bet you could even lasso resolution 181 into the mix with that word. is that concomitant enough for you?


----------



## Liability

reabhloideach said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has the right to exist where?
> 
> Inside the proposed resolution 181 borders that never became borders?
> 
> Inside the 1949 armistice agreement lines that were specifically not to be borders?
> 
> Inside the Eretz Israel borders that are, in fact, Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Israel has no borders, so where exactly does Israel have the right to exist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fraudulent polemics don't win debate points.
> 
> Israel already exists.
> 
> The boundaries and borders may be up for some (mostly academic) discussion.
> 
> But that doesn't alter the fact that it is a nation and that it has a concomitant right to exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL...the guy who accuses me of "some Fucking dopey faux philosophy" for asking the question throws "concomitant" into the mix. now that's a pretty high falutin' word there, cowboy. hells bells. i bet you could even lasso resolution 181 into the mix with that word. is that concomitant enough for you?
Click to expand...


Pinheads like you always "brag" about their functional illiteracy -- for some reason.


----------



## sealadaigh

Liability said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> gorgieporgie;
> 
> Your stupidity as as boundless as your effort to be clever is ineffectual.
> 
> I said not one word about God.  That's your bugaboo, ya bigoted dip shit motherfucker.
> 
> And I don't think anything justifies genocide, but then again, you're the asshole who pretends that Israel has ever engaged in anything of the kind, you fully dishonest fuck-wit cock-bite.
> 
> Go suck more dick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my, my, my...another satisfied customer.
> 
> genocide, by international law, is defined as acts with the intent of destroying an ethnic, national, racial, or religios groups...in part or whole.
> 
> israelis do that. it can be an act as simple as depriving the bedouins of water or the indescriminate shelling of the palestinians of gaza, or in the case of the israeli government, turning her back on the terrorising of peoples.
> 
> it is of course arguable whether what is occurring is genocide, but it was rarely even called that as little as three years ago. it is being called that with more and more frequency today.
> 
> now, you may believe that the palestinians can survive on the droppings from israel's table. i do not. i am beginning to think the genocide is a fait accompli
> the only thing that can prevent it is israel, the very same people who are causing it.
> 
> ya may want to work on that vulgarity and anger if you are trying to win adherents to your position. i am sure it doesn't bother george there, or most of the people who read your post. we've been through far worse and outlasted tougher guys then you, but one of those snake charming, holy book thumpers might not take too kindly to it.
> 
> now you sound like you've had a hard day so let carry some of your load for you, my brother. my stupidity is also as boundless as my effort to be clever is ineffectual. there ya go, gang boss. a little less typing you have to do.
> 
> later bud...david duke thanks you for making his job easier, jesus loves you...and lord knows, i'm tryin'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, as I correctly said, Israel has never engaged in ANY conduct rationally labeled as "genocidal."
> 
> When a bunch of fuckers insist on trying to kill you, fighting back is *not* genocide or attempted genocide, you mindless bigoted *scumbag cock sucking pinhead motherfuckers.*
> Amen.
Click to expand...


are you readin' some kinda kama sutra book there, chief, or are you speaking from personal experience. i don't think i could do that position if my life depended on it.

ya know, what ya might want to do is grow a wee 'stache just right under your nose there. it would fit in so well with these rants of yours.


----------



## docmauser1

Storm said:


> _There is only one nationality on the planet that is allowed to legally hold dual-American citizenship. ONLY Israelis can be citizens of both Israel and the United States! Hows that for favoritism, hubris, and political control? Whens the last time you heard of a dual Mexican-American? How about a dual Russian-American? Where can I find a dual Filipino-American?_


Actually reading the US immigration law will be a good start, of course.


Storm said:


> _But Israel automatically grants citizenship to any Jew worldwide. All that is needed is proof of Jewish heritage. And Jewish lineage is determined on the maternal line. If your mother is Jewish then you are Jewish._


Palistanians should seriously consider getting a life and a job.


----------



## sealadaigh

Liability said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fraudulent polemics don't win debate points.
> 
> Israel already exists.
> 
> The boundaries and borders may be up for some (mostly academic) discussion.
> 
> But that doesn't alter the fact that it is a nation and that it has a concomitant right to exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL...the guy who accuses me of "some Fucking dopey faux philosophy" for asking the question throws "concomitant" into the mix. now that's a pretty high falutin' word there, cowboy. hells bells. i bet you could even lasso resolution 181 into the mix with that word. is that concomitant enough for you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pinheads like you always "brag" about their functional illiteracy -- for some reason.
Click to expand...


i never bragged about anything. apparently, you're impressed by what i do though, judging from your reaction.

that "pinhead" is getting a little redundant too. ya may want to sprinkle in a few "boogerheads" or "blubberbutts " or fart faces" to complement your repertoire...and if all else fails, give us a hearty roar in really big fonts and scream  *"I KNOW YOU ARE!!! BUT WHAT AM I???"* i am sure most of us would consider it...how indeed shall i say it...concomitantary.


----------



## Liability

reabhloideach said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> my, my, my...another satisfied customer.
> 
> genocide, by international law, is defined as acts with the intent of destroying an ethnic, national, racial, or religios groups...in part or whole.
> 
> israelis do that. it can be an act as simple as depriving the bedouins of water or the indescriminate shelling of the palestinians of gaza, or in the case of the israeli government, turning her back on the terrorising of peoples.
> 
> it is of course arguable whether what is occurring is genocide, but it was rarely even called that as little as three years ago. it is being called that with more and more frequency today.
> 
> now, you may believe that the palestinians can survive on the droppings from israel's table. i do not. i am beginning to think the genocide is a fait accompli
> the only thing that can prevent it is israel, the very same people who are causing it.
> 
> ya may want to work on that vulgarity and anger if you are trying to win adherents to your position. i am sure it doesn't bother george there, or most of the people who read your post. we've been through far worse and outlasted tougher guys then you, but one of those snake charming, holy book thumpers might not take too kindly to it.
> 
> now you sound like you've had a hard day so let carry some of your load for you, my brother. my stupidity is also as boundless as my effort to be clever is ineffectual. there ya go, gang boss. a little less typing you have to do.
> 
> later bud...david duke thanks you for making his job easier, jesus loves you...and lord knows, i'm tryin'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, as I correctly said, Israel has never engaged in ANY conduct rationally labeled as "genocidal."
> 
> When a bunch of fuckers insist on trying to kill you, fighting back is *not* genocide or attempted genocide, you mindless bigoted *scumbag cock sucking pinhead motherfuckers.*
> Amen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> are you readin' some kinda kama sutra book there, chief, or are you speaking from personal experience. i don't think i could do that position if my life depended on it.
> 
> ya know, what ya might want to do is grow a wee 'stache just right under your nose there. it would fit in so well with these rants of yours.
Click to expand...


One need not engage in perversion of your kind to recognize that vermin like you exist and that you do depraved things, you fucking idiot.

Now, go stuff your mouth with another bag of dicks, ya hapless fuckface.


----------



## Liability

reabhloideach said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL...the guy who accuses me of "some Fucking dopey faux philosophy" for asking the question throws "concomitant" into the mix. now that's a pretty high falutin' word there, cowboy. hells bells. i bet you could even lasso resolution 181 into the mix with that word. is that concomitant enough for you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pinheads like you always "brag" about their functional illiteracy -- for some reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i never bragged about anything. apparently, you're impressed by what i do though, judging from your reaction.
> 
> that "pinhead" is getting a little redundant too. ya may want to sprinkle in a few "boogerheads" or "blubberbutts " or fart faces" to complement your repertoire...and if all else fails, give us a hearty roar in really big fonts and scream  *"I KNOW YOU ARE!!! BUT WHAT AM I???"* i am sure most of us would consider it...how indeed shall i say it...concomitantary.
Click to expand...


YOu just bragged about functional illiteracy yet again, you fucking pinhead cockbite.

And you are illiterate as well as boring, trite, uninspired, meaningless and a connoisseur of fine used enema bags.  That at least explains the ring of shit around your mouth.


----------



## Liability

Storm said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Storm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody needs to. Killing people under the assertion that your "god" gave you the land so its ok, is disgusting and criminal.
> 
> Believe me, the world pitties the Palestinians,...not the Jews....
> 
> 
> Except in America, which Israel controls with dual citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A bunch of bigoted anti-Semites (referencing those who simply hate Jews) pity the fake Palestinian people merely because they cannot see objectively past their own bigotry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only a brain born from *XXXX* could be as backward and slow, ad is the one responsible for the comment you just posted.....
> 
> Filthy racist, go somwhere where your toxin is appreciated.
Click to expand...


Perhaps you should familiarize your obviously defective brain with a little thing this place calls the TOS -- and in particular -- the no family rule, you cock-sucking ass-biting motherfucker.

Good news / bad news.  

Good news:  Israel exists.

Bad news:  You exist.

Better news / better news.

Better news:  With or without your approval, Israel will continue to exist.

Better news:  Someday, you won't.


----------



## sealadaigh

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy torpedo boats, on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War. The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and one civilian), wounded 170 crew members, and severely damaged the ship."_
> 
> 
> 
> The frequency with which the USS Liberty is keeping popping up through the waves makes one suspect arabski-talking money keeping that *flying dutchman *afloat, indeed.
Click to expand...


you sure are crass and flippant regarding the deaths of 34 american sailors.

look, i don't give one good flying fook which side of this issue people are on regarding the reason for the attack, but if you are an american, you need to treat these men with the respect they deserve, if for nothing more than their willingness to serve there country alone. have you ever put yourself in harm's way? have you ever served your country? 

nothing has made me more angry with american jews than when they go out of their way to smear these dead sailors and survivors. the protest by "american" jews against the opening of a USS Liberty memorial library in wisconsin was a disgraceful display, initiated by jews and participated in mainly by jews. what are they afraid of becaause it sure looks like you are afraid of something.

i suppose you will smear me as an "anti-semite" for this post, just as those good sailors have been smeared for seeking a full congressional investigation. good. i couldn't be more proud than to stand shoulder to shoulder with the surviving sailors of the USS Liberty as they continue to pursue the truth.

you should be ashamed..."flying dutchman" indeed.


----------



## georgephillip

Liability said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's the Occupation, Stupid
> 
> Who gave Judea and Samaria to the "Chosen People", their god, of course.
> Now that's Fucking dopey, right, Lil'Bitchity?
> Do you imagine the Jews' dopey religion justifies genocide?
> Sure you do.
> Stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gorgieporgie;
> 
> Your stupidity as as boundless as your effort to be clever is ineffectual.
> 
> I said not one word about God.  That's your bugaboo, ya bigoted dip shit motherfucker.
> 
> And I don't think anything justifies genocide, but then again, you're the asshole who pretends that Israel has ever engaged in anything of the kind, you fully dishonest fuck-wit cock-bite.
> 
> Go suck more dick.
Click to expand...

Do you find it difficult to "think" with a Koch (brother) stuck in every orifice?
Surely even a cognitively challenged Empire Punk like you knows how 650,000 Jews inflicted a Jewish State on 1.2 million of their fellow Palestinians in 1948, setting a genocide in motion that evicted 700,000 Arabs and others from land they had occupied for generations?
Why don't you try another anti-syphilitic medicine?
Your pathetic attempts at argument are embarrassing cuntservatives everywhere.
Get AIDs and die and take Bibi with you.
Bitch.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Liability said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has the right to exist where?
> 
> Inside the proposed resolution 181 borders that never became borders?
> 
> Inside the 1949 armistice agreement lines that were specifically not to be borders?
> 
> Inside the Eretz Israel borders that are, in fact, Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Israel has no borders, so where exactly does Israel have the right to exist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fraudulent polemics don't win debate points.
> 
> Israel already exists.
> 
> The boundaries and borders may be up for some (mostly academic) discussion.
> 
> But that doesn't alter the fact that it is a nation and that it has a concomitant right to exist.
Click to expand...


Establishing borders is more than an academic discussion.

It is inadmissible to acquire land through the threat or use of force. Israel acquired all its land by military attacks on civilians.

It is illegal to annex land that you occupy. Israel occupies all of Palestine.

It will take more than an academic discussion.


----------



## georgephillip

reabhloideach said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy torpedo boats, on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War. The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and one civilian), wounded 170 crew members, and severely damaged the ship."_
> 
> 
> 
> The frequency with which the USS Liberty is keeping popping up through the waves makes one suspect arabski-talking money keeping that *flying dutchman *afloat, indeed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you sure are crass and flippant regarding the deaths of 34 american sailors.
> 
> look, i don't give one good flying fook which side of this issue people are on regarding the reason for the attack, but if you are an american, you need to treat these men with the respect they deserve, if for nothing more than their willingness to serve there country alone. have you ever put yourself in harm's way? have you ever served your country?
> 
> nothing has made me more angry with american jews than when they go out of their way to smear these dead sailors and survivors. the protest by "american" jews against the opening of a USS Liberty memorial library in wisconsin was a disgraceful display, initiated by jews and participated in mainly by jews. what are they afraid of becaause it sure looks like you are afraid of something.
> 
> i suppose you will smear me as an "anti-semite" for this post, just as those good sailors have been smeared for seeking a full congressional investigation. good. i couldn't be more proud than to stand shoulder to shoulder with the surviving sailors of the USS Liberty as they continue to pursue the truth.
> 
> you should be ashamed..."flying dutchman" indeed.
Click to expand...

Stephen Forslund was a USAF intelligence analysis on 8 June 1967:

"On the day of the attack on the Liberty, I read yellow teletype sheets that spewed from the machines in front of me all day. We obtained our input from a variety of sources including the NSA.

"The teletypes were raw translations of intercepts of Israeli air-to-air and air-to-ground communications between jet aircraft and their ground controller. I read page after page of these transcripts that day as it went on and on. 

"The transcripts made specific reference to the efforts to direct the jets to the target which was identified as American numerous times by the ground controller. *Upon arrival, the aircraft specifically identified the target and mentioned the American flag she was flying*. 

"There were frequent operational transmissions from the pilots to the ground base describing the strafing runs. 

"The ground control began asking about the status of the target and whether it was sinking.

"*They stressed that the target must be sunk and leave no trace.* The pilots stated they had made several runs and the target was still floating. 

"The ground control station re-iterated that it was urgent that the target be sunk, leaving no trace. There was a detectable level of frustration evident in the transmissions over the fact that the aircraft were unable to accomplish the mission quickly and totally."

Statement of Stephen Forslund 

Americans should be willing ask themselves if Israel would have initiated such an attack in 1967 without US complicity at the highest level. Two Sixth Fleet rescue missions sent to aid _Liberty_ were recalled, the first on authority of Secretary of Defense Robert McNamera and the second on the authority of the President of the United States:

*"RADM Geis then said t*hat he speculated that Washington may have suspected that the aircraft carried nuclear weapons so he put together another flight of conventional aircraft that had no capability of carrying nuclear weapons. 

"These he launched to assist us and again notified Washington of his actions. 

"Again McNamara ordered the aircraft recalled. 

"He requested confirmation of the order being unable to believe that Washington would let us sink. 

"*This time President Johnson ordered the recall* with the comment that he did not care if every man drowned and the ship sank, but that *he would not embarrass his allies*."

USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The frequency with which the USS Liberty is keeping popping up through the waves makes one suspect arabski-talking money keeping that *flying dutchman *afloat, indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you sure are crass and flippant regarding the deaths of 34 american sailors.
> 
> look, i don't give one good flying fook which side of this issue people are on regarding the reason for the attack, but if you are an american, you need to treat these men with the respect they deserve, if for nothing more than their willingness to serve there country alone. have you ever put yourself in harm's way? have you ever served your country?
> 
> nothing has made me more angry with american jews than when they go out of their way to smear these dead sailors and survivors. the protest by "american" jews against the opening of a USS Liberty memorial library in wisconsin was a disgraceful display, initiated by jews and participated in mainly by jews. what are they afraid of becaause it sure looks like you are afraid of something.
> 
> i suppose you will smear me as an "anti-semite" for this post, just as those good sailors have been smeared for seeking a full congressional investigation. good. i couldn't be more proud than to stand shoulder to shoulder with the surviving sailors of the USS Liberty as they continue to pursue the truth.
> 
> you should be ashamed..."flying dutchman" indeed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stephen Forslund was a USAF intelligence analysis on 8 June 1967:
> 
> "On the day of the attack on the Liberty, I read yellow teletype sheets that spewed from the machines in front of me all day. We obtained our input from a variety of sources including the NSA.
> 
> "The teletypes were raw translations of intercepts of Israeli air-to-air and air-to-ground communications between jet aircraft and their ground controller. I read page after page of these transcripts that day as it went on and on.
> 
> "The transcripts made specific reference to the efforts to direct the jets to the target which was identified as American numerous times by the ground controller. *Upon arrival, the aircraft specifically identified the target and mentioned the American flag she was flying*.
> 
> "There were frequent operational transmissions from the pilots to the ground base describing the strafing runs.
> 
> "The ground control began asking about the status of the target and whether it was sinking.
> 
> "*They stressed that the target must be sunk and leave no trace.* The pilots stated they had made several runs and the target was still floating.
> 
> "The ground control station re-iterated that it was urgent that the target be sunk, leaving no trace. There was a detectable level of frustration evident in the transmissions over the fact that the aircraft were unable to accomplish the mission quickly and totally."
> 
> Statement of Stephen Forslund
> 
> Americans should be willing ask themselves if Israel would have initiated such an attack in 1967 without US complicity at the highest level. Two Sixth Fleet rescue missions sent to aid _Liberty_ were recalled, the first on authority of Secretary of Defense Robert McNamera and the second on the authority of the President of the United States:
> 
> *"RADM Geis then said t*hat he speculated that Washington may have suspected that the aircraft carried nuclear weapons so he put together another flight of conventional aircraft that had no capability of carrying nuclear weapons.
> 
> "These he launched to assist us and again notified Washington of his actions.
> 
> "Again McNamara ordered the aircraft recalled.
> 
> "He requested confirmation of the order being unable to believe that Washington would let us sink.
> 
> "*This time President Johnson ordered the recall* with the comment that he did not care if every man drowned and the ship sank, but that *he would not embarrass his allies*."
> 
> USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


I find it more than a bit suspect that Johnson would say that to a Navy Admiral. The only source of that third-hand comment:
Years ago, Cdr. David Lewis (USS Liberty survivor) stated that Adm. Geis told him in confidence that President Johnson said: "I do not care if every man drowned and the ship sank, we will not embarrass an ally."
war crimes | Examiner.com


----------



## docmauser1

reabhloideach said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy torpedo boats, on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War. The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and one civilian), wounded 170 crew members, and severely damaged the ship."_
> 
> 
> 
> The frequency with which the USS Liberty is keeping popping up through the waves makes one suspect arabski-talking money keeping that *flying dutchman *afloat, indeed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _you sure are crass and flippant regarding the deaths of 34 american sailors. ... _
Click to expand...

Oh, bog off with all buckshot-ridden posts.


----------



## sealadaigh

docmauser1 said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The frequency with which the USS Liberty is keeping popping up through the waves makes one suspect arabski-talking money keeping that *flying dutchman *afloat, indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> _you sure are crass and flippant regarding the deaths of 34 american sailors. ... _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, bog off with all buckshot-ridden posts.
Click to expand...


boy, you sure get pissy when someone steps in to defend the honour and integrity of american sailors.

look, no offense, but the way american jews have handled the USS Liberty incident is a lesson in sheer stupidity and unrivaled arrogance. you have taken a tragic incident (and i believe a deliberate attack on a vessel that was known to be an american naval vessel) that could have faded into the background and jews have turned it into a cause celebre.

my god, most americans had never even noticed the attack on the liberty at the time. i mean, vietnam was the story. we were escalating big time in '66, '67 and '68. people were protesting, the streets were a riot, the democratic convention was shutting down... and people were also committing the unforgiveable sin of ignoring the jews, so they had to make some sort of huge deal about "it was a mistaken identity." it was a blip on the radar screen off the american public.

jews fought against a full congressional investigation, and memorials, and on and on writing books and making claims when it would have faded into the background years ago if left alone. the first time i suspected something was amiss about the whole incident is because nobody fights that hard unless they have something to hide.

there is probably not one single objective person in the world who doesn't think the israelis knew it was an american ship during the attack. it would have been more believable if the israeli government would have actually claimed that the pilots were blind and were part of an experimental test program than the ridiculous story they weaved.


----------



## Roudy

reabhloideach said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> _you sure are crass and flippant regarding the deaths of 34 american sailors. ... _
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, bog off with all buckshot-ridden posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> boy, you sure get pissy when someone steps in to defend the honour and integrity of american sailors.
> 
> look, no offense, but the way american jews have handled the USS Liberty incident is a lesson in sheer stupidity and unrivaled arrogance. you have taken a tragic incident (and i believe a deliberate attack on a vessel that was known to be an american naval vessel) that could have faded into the background and jews have turned it into a cause celebre.
> 
> my god, most americans had never even noticed the attack on the liberty at the time. i mean, vietnam was the story. we were escalating big time in '66, '67 and '68. people were protesting, the streets were a riot, the democratic convention was shutting down... and people were also committing the unforgiveable sin of ignoring the jews, so they had to make some sort of huge deal about "it was a mistaken identity." it was a blip on the radar screen off the american public.
> 
> jews fought against a full congressional investigation, and memorials, and on and on writing books and making claims when it would have faded into the background years ago if left alone. the first time i suspected something was amiss about the whole incident is because nobody fights that hard unless they have something to hide.
> 
> there is probably not one single objective person in the world who doesn't think the israelis knew it was an american ship during the attack. it would have been more believable if the israeli government would have actually claimed that the pilots were blind and were part of an experimental test program than the ridiculous story they weaved.
Click to expand...

Jews fought against congressional investigations?  Is this why it was ine of the most investigated incidents in history?  But hey, let's not let Jew hating pigs like you stop repeating the same old tired lies. 

Does raeabhoildeach mean "I shoved a whiskey bottle up my Muslim-fucked ass" in Irish?


----------



## Roudy

docmauser1 said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The frequency with which the USS Liberty is keeping popping up through the waves makes one suspect arabski-talking money keeping that *flying dutchman *afloat, indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> _you sure are crass and flippant regarding the deaths of 34 american sailors. ... _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, bog off with all buckshot-ridden posts.
Click to expand...

He sure rambles a lot and none of it makes any sense.


----------



## sealadaigh

Roudy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, bog off with all buckshot-ridden posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boy, you sure get pissy when someone steps in to defend the honour and integrity of american sailors.
> 
> look, no offense, but the way american jews have handled the USS Liberty incident is a lesson in sheer stupidity and unrivaled arrogance. you have taken a tragic incident (and i believe a deliberate attack on a vessel that was known to be an american naval vessel) that could have faded into the background and jews have turned it into a cause celebre.
> 
> my god, most americans had never even noticed the attack on the liberty at the time. i mean, vietnam was the story. we were escalating big time in '66, '67 and '68. people were protesting, the streets were a riot, the democratic convention was shutting down... and people were also committing the unforgiveable sin of ignoring the jews, so they had to make some sort of huge deal about "it was a mistaken identity." it was a blip on the radar screen off the american public.
> 
> jews fought against a full congressional investigation, and memorials, and on and on writing books and making claims when it would have faded into the background years ago if left alone. the first time i suspected something was amiss about the whole incident is because nobody fights that hard unless they have something to hide.
> 
> there is probably not one single objective person in the world who doesn't think the israelis knew it was an american ship during the attack. it would have been more believable if the israeli government would have actually claimed that the pilots were blind and were part of an experimental test program than the ridiculous story they weaved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews fought against congressional investigations?  Is this why it was ine of the most investigated incidents in history?  But hey, let's not let Jew hating pigs like you stop repeating the same old tired lies.
> 
> Does raeabhoildeach mean "I shoved a whiskey bottle up my Muslim-fucked ass" in Irish?
Click to expand...


this is the funny part. i am giving jews good advice and they won't take it because they are too stupid and arrogant. the wise thing to do about the USS Liberty is to let sleeping dogs lay. it is a no brainer, but jews like you and docdope will always need to be right and rise to the bait, even i there is no bait.

here is a clue. most americans value the sacrifice of our troops, even during the vietnam era. ask your buddy, hoss. you are talking about 34 dead sailors here who were killed by what some refer to as "friendly" fire. i refer to it as a deliberate attack. you are defending the killers of those dead american sailors and jews have smeared a congressional medal of honor recipient, bill mcgonagle. how smart is it to do that?

there has been no full congressional investigation into the incident. such an investigation has taken place in every such incident of a similar nature in our history of naval warfare, and yet, jews keep fighting the investigation. WHY? don't tell me it is a waste of taxpayers money. you guys would support a bill to build a state of the art monstrous ski lodge on the golan heights if it because it would benefit israel and if it ever came before congress. sheesh.

so what are we left with? well, somewhere we have to let some clear headed objective logic take place. on a clear june day on the mediterranean iraeli observation planes fly by and looked at and watched one of the most distinctive vessels on the high seas at the time...the goddamned think looked like a friggin' giant grey porcupine doing the breast strike for fooks sake...with humongous ID letter "GTR5" on the bow (and i won't even mention the huge tattered american  flag that the israeli pilots say wasn't flying...what an insult to our sailors to say that they were derelict in their duty...but that flag was somehow bearing the scars of battle after the incident), and these pilots identify it as an egyptian freighter half the size. now, they say they suspect this scow is shelling israeli positions from miles away. believe me,  if a vessel was lobbing rounds in from that range, it had to have some pretty friggin' big ship guns on deck, but somehow the pilots miss seeing those guns. maybe they blinked. so they call in crack israeli pilots to attack the very distinctive american ship for over an hour when, lo and behold, they realise american sailors are tougher than they think and the ship will not go down, even after torpedo boat attack it, again failing to see the big "GTR5" painted on the bow. they head home and give us the big  "OOPS, SoRRY GUYS." and the end.

let me tell you something about bad guy identifiction, dipwad. i was in the U.S. Army field artillery, chief, and a big part of our job was telling the bad guys from the good guys out there and for those jet jocks to claim they mistook the USS Liberty for some worn out tub is laughable. that would be like a forward observer saying he mistook a 175 long tube (http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1372/m10775mr2.jpg ) for a mini cooper with its antenna up.

why the hell do you defend the killers of our sailors. right or wrong, accident or not, i sure as hell am going to take their side first and look at the evidence with an open mind. you, gowever, are foing to take the word of soe two bit no nothing judge from florida who has never flown a cobat mission in his life as far as i can tell and whose father or graandfaather was a rabbi in the palestine mandate.

stupid and arrogant...DO NOT POKE THE FREAKIN' BEAR!!!

christ, i could defend the attack on the liberty better than you clowns. you can;t even get out of the starting gate,


----------



## High_Gravity

reabhloideach is on here making a fool of herself again, some things never change.


----------



## High_Gravity

reabhloideach said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> _you sure are crass and flippant regarding the deaths of 34 american sailors. ... _
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, bog off with all buckshot-ridden posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> boy, you sure get pissy when someone steps in to defend the honour and integrity of american sailors.
> 
> look, no offense, but the way american jews have handled the USS Liberty incident is a lesson in sheer stupidity and unrivaled arrogance. you have taken a tragic incident (and i believe a deliberate attack on a vessel that was known to be an american naval vessel) that could have faded into the background and jews have turned it into a cause celebre.
> 
> my god, most americans had never even noticed the attack on the liberty at the time. i mean, vietnam was the story. we were escalating big time in '66, '67 and '68. people were protesting, the streets were a riot, the democratic convention was shutting down... and people were also committing the unforgiveable sin of ignoring the jews, so they had to make some sort of huge deal about "it was a mistaken identity." it was a blip on the radar screen off the american public.
> 
> jews fought against a full congressional investigation, and memorials, and on and on writing books and making claims when it would have faded into the background years ago if left alone. the first time i suspected something was amiss about the whole incident is because nobody fights that hard unless they have something to hide.
> 
> there is probably not one single objective person in the world who doesn't think the israelis knew it was an american ship during the attack. it would have been more believable if the israeli government would have actually claimed that the pilots were blind and were part of an experimental test program than the ridiculous story they weaved.
Click to expand...


Oh ok you hate the Jews so everything you say is irrelevant, you are dismissed.


----------



## sealadaigh

High_Gravity said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, bog off with all buckshot-ridden posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boy, you sure get pissy when someone steps in to defend the honour and integrity of american sailors.
> 
> look, no offense, but the way american jews have handled the USS Liberty incident is a lesson in sheer stupidity and unrivaled arrogance. you have taken a tragic incident (and i believe a deliberate attack on a vessel that was known to be an american naval vessel) that could have faded into the background and jews have turned it into a cause celebre.
> 
> my god, most americans had never even noticed the attack on the liberty at the time. i mean, vietnam was the story. we were escalating big time in '66, '67 and '68. people were protesting, the streets were a riot, the democratic convention was shutting down... and people were also committing the unforgiveable sin of ignoring the jews, so they had to make some sort of huge deal about "it was a mistaken identity." it was a blip on the radar screen off the american public.
> 
> jews fought against a full congressional investigation, and memorials, and on and on writing books and making claims when it would have faded into the background years ago if left alone. the first time i suspected something was amiss about the whole incident is because nobody fights that hard unless they have something to hide.
> 
> there is probably not one single objective person in the world who doesn't think the israelis knew it was an american ship during the attack. it would have been more believable if the israeli government would have actually claimed that the pilots were blind and were part of an experimental test program than the ridiculous story they weaved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh ok you hate the Jews so everything you say is irrelevant, you are dismissed.
Click to expand...


i like america. my son is at navy boot camp right now. it is beyond me why anyone would equate defending the reputation of american sailors and demanding justice for them as anti-semitic,...lol...and don't think we haven't noticed the new language..."jew hater"...since the foreign ministry put the kibosh on "anti-semitism" a while back because it was overused (gee...that was my advice to y'all years ago). no one is fooled by this new "jew hater" routine either.

but this is america, and it is your prerogative to be arrogant, stupid, and even disrespect our sailors and defend those who kill them. i don't see any muslis, especially american ones, defending the attack on the USS Cole.

do you know who the biggest "jew haters" are, or at least those who you so carelessly fling that term towards? the biggest "jew haters", in the estimation of you and those like you,  are those whose arguments you can't counter and that express no jew hatred at all. the biggest "jew haters" are the ones you only know how to respond to with snide, vulgar, and impertinent. no answer, huh...let's call him/her a "jew hater." really? you don't think people are seeing through that after all these years?

and what is this "you are dismissed" stuff. are you taking lessons from that rather ample jewish dominatrix that lives out in colorado...i think her name is rose.


----------



## High_Gravity

reabhloideach said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> boy, you sure get pissy when someone steps in to defend the honour and integrity of american sailors.
> 
> look, no offense, but the way american jews have handled the USS Liberty incident is a lesson in sheer stupidity and unrivaled arrogance. you have taken a tragic incident (and i believe a deliberate attack on a vessel that was known to be an american naval vessel) that could have faded into the background and jews have turned it into a cause celebre.
> 
> my god, most americans had never even noticed the attack on the liberty at the time. i mean, vietnam was the story. we were escalating big time in '66, '67 and '68. people were protesting, the streets were a riot, the democratic convention was shutting down... and people were also committing the unforgiveable sin of ignoring the jews, so they had to make some sort of huge deal about "it was a mistaken identity." it was a blip on the radar screen off the american public.
> 
> jews fought against a full congressional investigation, and memorials, and on and on writing books and making claims when it would have faded into the background years ago if left alone. the first time i suspected something was amiss about the whole incident is because nobody fights that hard unless they have something to hide.
> 
> there is probably not one single objective person in the world who doesn't think the israelis knew it was an american ship during the attack. it would have been more believable if the israeli government would have actually claimed that the pilots were blind and were part of an experimental test program than the ridiculous story they weaved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh ok you hate the Jews so everything you say is irrelevant, you are dismissed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i like america. my son is at navy boot camp right now. it is beyond me why anyone would equate defending the reputation of american sailors and demanding justice for them as anti-semitic,...lol...and don't think we haven't noticed the new language..."jew hater"...since the foreign ministry put the kibosh on "anti-semitism" a while back because it was overused (gee...that was my advice to y'all years ago). no one is fooled by this new "jew hater" routine either.
> 
> but this is america, and it is your prerogative to be arrogant, stupid, and even disrespect our sailors and defend those who kill them. i don't see any muslis, especially american ones, defending the attack on the USS Cole.
> 
> do you know who the biggest "jew haters" are, or at least those who you so carelessly fling that term towards? the biggest "jew haters", in the estimation of you and those like you,  are those whose arguments you can't counter and that express no jew hatred at all. the biggest "jew haters" are the ones you only know how to respond to with snide, vulgar, and impertinent. no answer, huh...let's call him/her a "jew hater." really? you don't think people are seeing through that after all these years?
> 
> and what is this "you are dismissed" stuff. are you taking lessons from that rather ample jewish dominatrix that lives out in colorado...i think her name is rose.
Click to expand...


I didn't say you hate America but you definently hate Jews, even Stevie Wonder can see that.


----------



## sealadaigh

High_Gravity said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh ok you hate the Jews so everything you say is irrelevant, you are dismissed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i like america. my son is at navy boot camp right now. it is beyond me why anyone would equate defending the reputation of american sailors and demanding justice for them as anti-semitic,...lol...and don't think we haven't noticed the new language..."jew hater"...since the foreign ministry put the kibosh on "anti-semitism" a while back because it was overused (gee...that was my advice to y'all years ago). no one is fooled by this new "jew hater" routine either.
> 
> but this is america, and it is your prerogative to be arrogant, stupid, and even disrespect our sailors and defend those who kill them. i don't see any muslis, especially american ones, defending the attack on the USS Cole.
> 
> do you know who the biggest "jew haters" are, or at least those who you so carelessly fling that term towards? the biggest "jew haters", in the estimation of you and those like you,  are those whose arguments you can't counter and that express no jew hatred at all. the biggest "jew haters" are the ones you only know how to respond to with snide, vulgar, and impertinent. no answer, huh...let's call him/her a "jew hater." really? you don't think people are seeing through that after all these years?
> 
> and what is this "you are dismissed" stuff. are you taking lessons from that rather ample jewish dominatrix that lives out in colorado...i think her name is rose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't say you hate America but you definently hate Jews, even Stevie Wonder can see that.
Click to expand...


oh, that's it. make fun of the blind black man...racist...doesn't that white hood make it hard to see the keyboard, or did that cross burning last night affect your eyesight. 

i never said you said i hated america. i said i liked america and added that it was your prerogative to be arrogant, stupid, and even disrespect our sailors and defend those who kill them...which kind of defines your loyalties.

looki...if you want to equate my asking for justice for our sailors as "jew hatred", that is your right.

if you want to equate my telling jews , and make no mistake about it that it is primarily and largely jews, that it is a bad idea to defend the killers of american servicemen with jew hatred, then you are proving my point...about stupidity and arrogance.

i don't have any beef with jews. my beef is with zionists, and i have a problem with people who colonise other's lands and commit acts of genocide and i have a problem with those who support those colonialists and acts of genocide and in this case it happens to be jews. do not equate my opposition to soething with your bling and raging hatred of muslis because they are muslims.

yeah, i hate jews. that is why i have said in the past that israel was a bad idea and we should get the jews out of there before the whole thing blows up and they would be welcomed, at least by me, here in america. yeah...every jew hater in america wants more jews flooding our shores...right?


----------



## High_Gravity

reabhloideach said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> i like america. my son is at navy boot camp right now. it is beyond me why anyone would equate defending the reputation of american sailors and demanding justice for them as anti-semitic,...lol...and don't think we haven't noticed the new language..."jew hater"...since the foreign ministry put the kibosh on "anti-semitism" a while back because it was overused (gee...that was my advice to y'all years ago). no one is fooled by this new "jew hater" routine either.
> 
> but this is america, and it is your prerogative to be arrogant, stupid, and even disrespect our sailors and defend those who kill them. i don't see any muslis, especially american ones, defending the attack on the USS Cole.
> 
> do you know who the biggest "jew haters" are, or at least those who you so carelessly fling that term towards? the biggest "jew haters", in the estimation of you and those like you,  are those whose arguments you can't counter and that express no jew hatred at all. the biggest "jew haters" are the ones you only know how to respond to with snide, vulgar, and impertinent. no answer, huh...let's call him/her a "jew hater." really? you don't think people are seeing through that after all these years?
> 
> and what is this "you are dismissed" stuff. are you taking lessons from that rather ample jewish dominatrix that lives out in colorado...i think her name is rose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say you hate America but you definently hate Jews, even Stevie Wonder can see that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> oh, that's it. make fun of the blind black man...racist...doesn't that white hood make it hard to see the keyboard, or did that cross burning last night affect your eyesight.
> 
> i never said you said i hated america. i said i liked america and added that it was your prerogative to be arrogant, stupid, and even disrespect our sailors and defend those who kill them...which kind of defines your loyalties.
> 
> looki...if you want to equate my asking for justice for our sailors as "jew hatred", that is your right.
> 
> if you want to equate my telling jews , and make no mistake about it that it is primarily and largely jews, that it is a bad idea to defend the killers of american servicemen with jew hatred, then you are proving my point...about stupidity and arrogance.
> 
> i don't have any beef with jews. my beef is with zionists, and i have a problem with people who colonise other's lands and commit acts of genocide and i have a problem with those who support those colonialists and acts of genocide and in this case it happens to be jews. do not equate my opposition to soething with your bling and raging hatred of muslis because they are muslims.
> 
> yeah, i hate jews. that is why i have said in the past that israel was a bad idea and we should get the jews out of there before the whole thing blows up and they would be welcomed, at least by me, here in america. yeah...every jew hater in america wants more jews flooding our shores...right?
Click to expand...


You are such a typical boring Jew hater, you will get lost in the shuffle here real quick. You can't even shine PF Tinmore or Imas shoes.


----------



## Roudy

High_Gravity said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh ok you hate the Jews so everything you say is irrelevant, you are dismissed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i like america. my son is at navy boot camp right now. it is beyond me why anyone would equate defending the reputation of american sailors and demanding justice for them as anti-semitic,...lol...and don't think we haven't noticed the new language..."jew hater"...since the foreign ministry put the kibosh on "anti-semitism" a while back because it was overused (gee...that was my advice to y'all years ago). no one is fooled by this new "jew hater" routine either.
> 
> but this is america, and it is your prerogative to be arrogant, stupid, and even disrespect our sailors and defend those who kill them. i don't see any muslis, especially american ones, defending the attack on the USS Cole.
> 
> do you know who the biggest "jew haters" are, or at least those who you so carelessly fling that term towards? the biggest "jew haters", in the estimation of you and those like you,  are those whose arguments you can't counter and that express no jew hatred at all. the biggest "jew haters" are the ones you only know how to respond to with snide, vulgar, and impertinent. no answer, huh...let's call him/her a "jew hater." really? you don't think people are seeing through that after all these years?
> 
> and what is this "you are dismissed" stuff. are you taking lessons from that rather ample jewish dominatrix that lives out in colorado...i think her name is rose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't say you hate America but you definently hate Jews, even Stevie Wonder can see that.
Click to expand...

This wimp is a rabid Jew hater, not to mention that he whines and rambles a lot, as you can see. He thinks people actually read through all his garbage and lies.


----------



## Roudy

High_Gravity said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say you hate America but you definently hate Jews, even Stevie Wonder can see that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh, that's it. make fun of the blind black man...racist...doesn't that white hood make it hard to see the keyboard, or did that cross burning last night affect your eyesight.
> 
> i never said you said i hated america. i said i liked america and added that it was your prerogative to be arrogant, stupid, and even disrespect our sailors and defend those who kill them...which kind of defines your loyalties.
> 
> looki...if you want to equate my asking for justice for our sailors as "jew hatred", that is your right.
> 
> if you want to equate my telling jews , and make no mistake about it that it is primarily and largely jews, that it is a bad idea to defend the killers of american servicemen with jew hatred, then you are proving my point...about stupidity and arrogance.
> 
> i don't have any beef with jews. my beef is with zionists, and i have a problem with people who colonise other's lands and commit acts of genocide and i have a problem with those who support those colonialists and acts of genocide and in this case it happens to be jews. do not equate my opposition to soething with your bling and raging hatred of muslis because they are muslims.
> 
> yeah, i hate jews. that is why i have said in the past that israel was a bad idea and we should get the jews out of there before the whole thing blows up and they would be welcomed, at least by me, here in america. yeah...every jew hater in america wants more jews flooding our shores...right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are such a typical boring Jew hater, you will get lost in the shuffle here real quick. You can't even shine PF Tinmore or Imas shoes.
Click to expand...

Exactly.


----------



## High_Gravity

Roudy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> i like america. my son is at navy boot camp right now. it is beyond me why anyone would equate defending the reputation of american sailors and demanding justice for them as anti-semitic,...lol...and don't think we haven't noticed the new language..."jew hater"...since the foreign ministry put the kibosh on "anti-semitism" a while back because it was overused (gee...that was my advice to y'all years ago). no one is fooled by this new "jew hater" routine either.
> 
> but this is america, and it is your prerogative to be arrogant, stupid, and even disrespect our sailors and defend those who kill them. i don't see any muslis, especially american ones, defending the attack on the USS Cole.
> 
> do you know who the biggest "jew haters" are, or at least those who you so carelessly fling that term towards? the biggest "jew haters", in the estimation of you and those like you,  are those whose arguments you can't counter and that express no jew hatred at all. the biggest "jew haters" are the ones you only know how to respond to with snide, vulgar, and impertinent. no answer, huh...let's call him/her a "jew hater." really? you don't think people are seeing through that after all these years?
> 
> and what is this "you are dismissed" stuff. are you taking lessons from that rather ample jewish dominatrix that lives out in colorado...i think her name is rose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say you hate America but you definently hate Jews, even Stevie Wonder can see that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This wimp is a rabid Jew hater, not to mention that he whines and rambles a lot, as you can see. He thinks people actually read through all his garbage and lies.
Click to expand...


It also seems he struggles with the English language, the words the right to exist are not exactly nuclear physics.


----------



## Roudy

High_Gravity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say you hate America but you definently hate Jews, even Stevie Wonder can see that.
> 
> 
> 
> This wimp is a rabid Jew hater, not to mention that he whines and rambles a lot, as you can see. He thinks people actually read through all his garbage and lies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It also seems he struggles with the English language, the words the right to exist are not exactly nuclear physics.
Click to expand...

He a highly medicated, mentally ill Jew- hating drunkard.  Perfect profile of a Pali supporter.


----------



## High_Gravity

Roudy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> This wimp is a rabid Jew hater, not to mention that he whines and rambles a lot, as you can see. He thinks people actually read through all his garbage and lies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It also seems he struggles with the English language, the words the right to exist are not exactly nuclear physics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He a highly medicated, mentally ill Jew- hating drunkard.  Perfect profile of a Pali supporter.
Click to expand...


You pretty much nailed it.


----------



## sealadaigh

High_Gravity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> It also seems he struggles with the English language, the words the right to exist are not exactly nuclear physics.
> 
> 
> 
> He a highly medicated, mentally ill Jew- hating drunkard.  Perfect profile of a Pali supporter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You pretty much nailed it.
Click to expand...


lolol...ok...i am an illiterate, stupid, jew hating, drunken lunkhead.

now perhaps you two smart manly men can put your two noggins together and explain a states "right to exist" in the context of germany under the NAZIs, the soviet union under stalin, south africa during apartheid, and on and on.

and maybe you can also add on to that why  whatever palestinian organisation at the moment that israel insists recognise israel's right to exist, in so doing must deny their own right to existence, not only in the present, but the past and future as well.

i recognise "israel's right to exist", but i recognise it or what it is. it is a stalling tool, a piece of propaganda, that israel utilises to avoid peace talks while they grab up is much of the west bank as possible and, in so doing, deny the palestinians their own right to exist.

i'm one o israel's and the jewish people's best friends and you don't even know it. the reason i am your best friends is because i am not fooled by the sweet talk and pretty lies that emanate from every pore of every zionist's being. my anger is more moderate, more even, just...but someday, the people who you have fooled are going to wake up, they are already beginning to do so, and when people begin to realise that they have been duped and lied to, well, that is when you will see a very explosive and directed anger.

there was a time when i might have stood in the way of those fooled ones' irrational anger...why...because it would be the right thing to do. that time has passed, i will stand back. why? because it is not a wrong thing to do.


----------



## irosie91

you have said nothing.     You have  revealed that you know the jihadist pig lexicon.   There once lived a man who was appointed by  Saddam Hussein to be a DIPLOMAT FOR THE ARAB WORLD in the USA        In fact he and his organization were involved in terrorism -----at that time,  usually the killing of Israeli kids both in Israel and abroad       He LOVED JEWS AND ISRAEL       in fact my own hubby once met him at a social event  and the slimey diplomatish pig offered to "kiss"   hubby--------hubby escaped


----------



## patrickcaturday

> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> you have said nothing.     You have  revealed that you know the jihadist pig lexicon.   There once lived a man who was appointed by  Saddam Hussein to be a DIPLOMAT FOR THE ARAB WORLD in the USA        In fact he and his organization were involved in terrorism -----at that time,  usually the killing of Israeli kids both in Israel and abroad       He LOVED JEWS AND ISRAEL       in fact my own hubby once met him at a social event  and the slimey diplomatish pig offered to "kiss"   hubby--------hubby escaped
Click to expand...





> Jews fought against congressional investigations? Is this why it was ine of the most investigated incidents in history? But hey, let's not let Jew hating pigs like you stop repeating the same old tired lies.
> Does raeabhoildeach mean "I shoved a whiskey bottle up my Muslim-fucked ass" in Irish?
> 
> 
> From Roudy








> He sure rambles a lot and none of it makes any sense.
> 
> 
> Also from Roudy







> reabhloideach is on here making a fool of herself again, some things never change.
> 
> 
> From High Gravity








> Oh ok you hate the Jews so everything you say is irrelevant, you are dismissed.
> 
> 
> 
> Also from High Gravity







> I didn't say you hate America but you definently hate Jews, even Stevie Wonder can see that.
> 
> 
> 
> Also from High Gravity







> You are such a typical boring Jew hater, you will get lost in the shuffle here real quick. You can't even shine PF Tinmore or Imas shoes.
> 
> 
> 
> Also from High Gravity








> This wimp is a rabid Jew hater, not to mention that he whines and rambles a lot, as you can see. He thinks people actually read through all his garbage and lies.
> 
> 
> 
> From Roudy








> It also seems he struggles with the English language, the words the right to exist are not exactly nuclear physics.
> 
> 
> 
> From High Gravity








> He a highly medicated, mentally ill Jew- hating drunkard. Perfect profile of a Pali supporter.
> 
> 
> 
> From Roudy





*These are several of the more cogent responses that Reabhloideach has received for his patient attempts to feed these people the answer to the questions that he poses.  Reabhloideach give it a break these people are incapable of answering any questions other then what is 1+1, and every other day they get that one wrong.  The only mistake that you made  ( one that I make almost every day) is that you try to talk to them in a rational manner.  They are so threatened by reasoned discourse that their only response is to fall back on their own failed ideology and this usually results in insults and pornographic references and even those show a complete lack of creativity.  Let me see if I can dumb it down for them;

    1 ) who gives nations a right to exist ?

    2 ) where is this right stated in law ?

    3 ) does one nations right to exist trump other nations right to exist ?

    4 ) how long does this right last and when does it start ?



These are open honest questions and I am looking for original ideas not old shop worn ideology.  Thank You.*


----------



## Hossfly

patrickcaturday said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> you have said nothing.     You have  revealed that you know the jihadist pig lexicon.   There once lived a man who was appointed by  Saddam Hussein to be a DIPLOMAT FOR THE ARAB WORLD in the USA        In fact he and his organization were involved in terrorism -----at that time,  usually the killing of Israeli kids both in Israel and abroad       He LOVED JEWS AND ISRAEL       in fact my own hubby once met him at a social event  and the slimey diplomatish pig offered to "kiss"   hubby--------hubby escaped
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It also seems he struggles with the English language, the words the right to exist are not exactly nuclear physics.
> 
> 
> 
> From High Gravity
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He a highly medicated, mentally ill Jew- hating drunkard. Perfect profile of a Pali supporter.
> 
> 
> 
> From Roudy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *These are several of the more cogent responses that Reabhloideach has received for his patient attempts to feed these people the answer to the questions that he poses.  Reabhloideach give it a break these people are incapable of answering any questions other then what is 1+1, and every other day they get that one wrong.  The only mistake that you made  ( one that I make almost every day) is that you try to talk to them in a rational manner.  They are so threatened by reasoned discourse that their only response is to fall back on their own failed ideology and this usually results in insults and pornographic references and even those show a complete lack of creativity.  Let me see if I can dumb it down for them;
> 
> 1 ) who gives nations a right to exist ?
> 
> 2 ) where is this right stated in law ?
> 
> 3 ) does one nations right to exist trump other nations right to exist ?
> 
> 4 ) how long does this right last and when does it start ?
> 
> 
> 
> These are open honest questions and I am looking for original ideas not old shop worn ideology.  Thank You.*
Click to expand...

"Cogito ergo sum."
~Rene Descartes.


----------



## docmauser1

reabhloideach said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> _you sure are crass and flippant regarding the deaths of 34 american sailors. ... _
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, bog off with all buckshot-ridden posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _boy, you sure get pissy when someone steps in to defend the honour and integrity of american sailors._
Click to expand...

Oh, bog off.


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> you sure are crass and flippant regarding the deaths of 34 american sailors.
> 
> look, i don't give one good flying fook which side of this issue people are on regarding the reason for the attack, but if you are an american, you need to treat these men with the respect they deserve, if for nothing more than their willingness to serve there country alone. have you ever put yourself in harm's way? have you ever served your country?
> 
> nothing has made me more angry with american jews than when they go out of their way to smear these dead sailors and survivors. the protest by "american" jews against the opening of a USS Liberty memorial library in wisconsin was a disgraceful display, initiated by jews and participated in mainly by jews. what are they afraid of becaause it sure looks like you are afraid of something.
> 
> i suppose you will smear me as an "anti-semite" for this post, just as those good sailors have been smeared for seeking a full congressional investigation. good. i couldn't be more proud than to stand shoulder to shoulder with the surviving sailors of the USS Liberty as they continue to pursue the truth.
> 
> you should be ashamed..."flying dutchman" indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> Stephen Forslund was a USAF intelligence analysis on 8 June 1967:
> 
> "On the day of the attack on the Liberty, I read yellow teletype sheets that spewed from the machines in front of me all day. We obtained our input from a variety of sources including the NSA.
> 
> "The teletypes were raw translations of intercepts of Israeli air-to-air and air-to-ground communications between jet aircraft and their ground controller. I read page after page of these transcripts that day as it went on and on.
> 
> "The transcripts made specific reference to the efforts to direct the jets to the target which was identified as American numerous times by the ground controller. *Upon arrival, the aircraft specifically identified the target and mentioned the American flag she was flying*.
> 
> "There were frequent operational transmissions from the pilots to the ground base describing the strafing runs.
> 
> "The ground control began asking about the status of the target and whether it was sinking.
> 
> "*They stressed that the target must be sunk and leave no trace.* The pilots stated they had made several runs and the target was still floating.
> 
> "The ground control station re-iterated that it was urgent that the target be sunk, leaving no trace. There was a detectable level of frustration evident in the transmissions over the fact that the aircraft were unable to accomplish the mission quickly and totally."
> 
> Statement of Stephen Forslund
> 
> Americans should be willing ask themselves if Israel would have initiated such an attack in 1967 without US complicity at the highest level. Two Sixth Fleet rescue missions sent to aid _Liberty_ were recalled, the first on authority of Secretary of Defense Robert McNamera and the second on the authority of the President of the United States:
> 
> *"RADM Geis then said t*hat he speculated that Washington may have suspected that the aircraft carried nuclear weapons so he put together another flight of conventional aircraft that had no capability of carrying nuclear weapons.
> 
> "These he launched to assist us and again notified Washington of his actions.
> 
> "Again McNamara ordered the aircraft recalled.
> 
> "He requested confirmation of the order being unable to believe that Washington would let us sink.
> 
> "*This time President Johnson ordered the recall* with the comment that he did not care if every man drowned and the ship sank, but that *he would not embarrass his allies*."
> 
> USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I find it more than a bit suspect that Johnson would say that to a Navy Admiral. The only source of that third-hand comment:
> Years ago, Cdr. David Lewis (USS Liberty survivor) stated that Adm. Geis told him in confidence that President Johnson said: "I do not care if every man drowned and the ship sank, we will not embarrass an ally."
> war crimes | Examiner.com
Click to expand...

*Reference #70*:

"*Several Liberty crew members testified that they had briefly seen a periscope during the attack*. 

"In 1988, the Lyndon Johnson Library declassified and released a document from the USS Liberty archive with the '*Top SecretEyes Only*' security caveat (Document #12C sanitized and released 21DEC88 under review case 86199). 

"This 'Memorandum for the Record' dated 10 April 1967 reported a briefing of the '303 Committee' by General Ralph D. Steakley. According to the memo, General Steakley 'briefed the committee on a sensitive DOD project known as FRONTLET 615,' which is identified in a handwritten note on the original memorandum as '*submarine within U.A.R. waters*.' Further Freedom of Information Act requests returned no existence of a project called 'FRONTLET 615'. 

"In February 1997, a senior member of the crew of the submarine USS Amberjack told James Ennes that he had watched the attack through the periscope and took pictures. 

"According to the official ship's history from the Department of Defense, Amberjack's mission between 23 April and 24 July was reconnaissance within U.A.R. When contacted, four crewmen stated that they were so close to USS Liberty when it came under attack that some of the crew believed Amberjack itself was under depth charge attack." 

USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

LBJ downplayed the attack in his memoir, possibly for a very good reason.


----------



## Roudy

patrickcaturday said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> you have said nothing.     You have  revealed that you know the jihadist pig lexicon.   There once lived a man who was appointed by  Saddam Hussein to be a DIPLOMAT FOR THE ARAB WORLD in the USA        In fact he and his organization were involved in terrorism -----at that time,  usually the killing of Israeli kids both in Israel and abroad       He LOVED JEWS AND ISRAEL       in fact my own hubby once met him at a social event  and the slimey diplomatish pig offered to "kiss"   hubby--------hubby escaped
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It also seems he struggles with the English language, the words the right to exist are not exactly nuclear physics.
> 
> 
> 
> From High Gravity
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He a highly medicated, mentally ill Jew- hating drunkard. Perfect profile of a Pali supporter.
> 
> 
> 
> From Roudy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *These are several of the more cogent responses that Reabhloideach has received for his patient attempts to feed these people the answer to the questions that he poses.  Reabhloideach give it a break these people are incapable of answering any questions other then what is 1+1, and every other day they get that one wrong.  The only mistake that you made  ( one that I make almost every day) is that you try to talk to them in a rational manner.  They are so threatened by reasoned discourse that their only response is to fall back on their own failed ideology and this usually results in insults and pornographic references and even those show a complete lack of creativity.  Let me see if I can dumb it down for them;
> 
> 1 ) who gives nations a right to exist ?
> 
> 2 ) where is this right stated in law ?
> 
> 3 ) does one nations right to exist trump other nations right to exist ?
> 
> 4 ) how long does this right last and when does it start ?
> 
> 
> 
> These are open honest questions and I am looking for original ideas not old shop worn ideology.  Thank You.*
Click to expand...

Apply the same questions to any country and the answer to those would be the same as Israel's.  Except Israel's case is ten times stronger, since it never invaded or occupied another nation. It merely re established a homeland for the Jewish people in the land of its ancestors, from the remains of a fallen Ottoman Empire, 99% of the land going to Arabs and Muslims.

Muslims and anti Semites have a problem with a Jewish state being established in the ancient homeland of the Jews, in an all Muslim region? TOUGH SHIT.


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _Several Liberty crew members testified that they had briefly seen a periscope during the attack_


The Loch Ness monster, no doubt.


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Several Liberty crew members testified that they had briefly seen a periscope during the attack_
> 
> 
> 
> The Loch Ness monster, no doubt.
Click to expand...

*Nessie from the bog?*

"The 1981 book Weapons by Russell Warren Howe asserts that Liberty was accompanied by the Polaris armed Lafayette-class submarine USS Andrew Jackson, which filmed the entire episode through its periscope but was unable to provide assistance. 

"According to Howe: 'Two hundred feet below the ship, on a parallel course, was its 'shadow'&#8212;the Polaris strategic submarine Andrew Jackson, whose job was to *take out all the Israeli long-range missile sites in the Negev if Tel Aviv decided to attack Cairo, Damascus or Baghdad.* This was in order that Moscow would not have to perform this task itself and thus trigger World War Three.'"

USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Several Liberty crew members testified that they had briefly seen a periscope during the attack_
> 
> 
> 
> The Loch Ness monster, no doubt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Nessie from the bog?*
> 
> "The 1981 book Weapons by Russell Warren Howe asserts that Liberty was accompanied by the Polaris armed Lafayette-class submarine USS Andrew Jackson, which filmed the entire episode through its periscope but was unable to provide assistance.
> 
> "According to Howe: 'Two hundred feet below the ship, on a parallel course, was its 'shadow'&#8212;the Polaris strategic submarine Andrew Jackson, whose job was to *take out all the Israeli long-range missile sites in the Negev if Tel Aviv decided to attack Cairo, Damascus or Baghdad.* This was in order that Moscow would not have to perform this task itself and thus trigger World War Three.'"
> 
> USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

Over 16,000 incidents of Islamic terrorism and counting since 9-11, but the garbage of humanity IslamoNazis only want to talk about the USS Liberty. They have NOTHING:

Official reports related to the Liberty incident (a sampling, selected from A. Jay Cristol's book The Liberty Incident - uncited statements in quotation marks are from the reports)
U.S. Reports  U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry, June 18, 1967 " Available evidence combines to indicate the attack on the Liberty on 8 June was in fact a case of mistaken identity."   CIA Report, June 13, 1967  The attack was a mistake. In 1978, in a response to an inquiry, Director of Central Intelligence Stansfield Turner wrote: "It remains our best judgment that the Israeli attack on the U.S.S. Liberty was not made in malice toward the United States and was a mistake." 

Joint Chiefs of Staff, Russ Report, June 9-20, 1967 General Russ did not make any findings about the actual attack. The report compiled all message traffic and contains no evidence that the attack was not a mistake.  Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, Clifford Report, July 18, 1967 "The information thus far available does not reflect that the Israeli high command made a premeditated attack on a ship known to be American&#8230;. " 

National Security Agency, 1981 "Liberty was mistaken for an Egyptian ship as a result of miscalculation and egregious errors."  Israeli Report  Ram Ron Commission of Inquiry, June 16, 1967 "[T]he attack on the ship by the Israeli Defense Forces was made neither maliciously nor in gross negligence, but as a result of a bona fide mistake."

A. Jay Cristol, The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Navy Spy Ship, 2002, Cristol's is the most extensive research of the attack on the Liberty; it includes not just research into the incident itself, but also a very effective analysis of the various conspiracy theories regarding the incident. The Web site is also updated with comments on Ward Boston's affidavit. 

National Security Agency Web site: 
http://www.nsa.gov/docs/efoia/released/liberty.html 

Michael B. Oren, "Unfriendly Fire: Why did Israeli troops attack the USS Liberty?" The New Republic, July 23, 2001. 

In 1999, moreover, a National Security Agency report from 1981 was released claiming that "the tragedy resulted not only from Israeli miscalculation but also from faulty U.S. communications practices." Since July 2003, this report has been available on the NSA Web site accompanied by a recording of radio communications between Israeli pilots made by a U.S. spy plane on the scene throughout the episode.  The NSA report and other documents declassified since the incident - including a trove of government materials released in January 2004 - support findings that the bombing was a case of mistaken identity. Some of the different investigations and their conclusions are listed below.  The most thorough non-governmental treatment of the bombing is A. Jay Cristol's The Liberty Incident (2002). Cristol, a U.S. bankruptcy judge and former U.S. Navy lawyer, concludes that "the totality of evidence establishes that the attack on the USS Liberty was a tragic case of mistaken identity that resulted from a compounding of bad mistakes perpetrated by both the United States and Israel, and nothing more." He analyzes, and meticulously debunks, previous books, articles and TV productions that argue that the attack was intentional and government investigations only cover-ups. 

Michael B. Oren, "The USS Liberty: Case Closed," Azure, Spring 5760/2000. http://www.azure.org.il/9-Oren.htm.


----------



## sealadaigh

Roudy said:


> patrickcaturday said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He a highly medicated, mentally ill Jew- hating drunkard. Perfect profile of a Pali supporter.
> 
> 
> 
> From Roudy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *These are several of the more cogent responses that Reabhloideach has received for his patient attempts to feed these people the answer to the questions that he poses.  Reabhloideach give it a break these people are incapable of answering any questions other then what is 1+1, and every other day they get that one wrong.  The only mistake that you made  ( one that I make almost every day) is that you try to talk to them in a rational manner.  They are so threatened by reasoned discourse that their only response is to fall back on their own failed ideology and this usually results in insults and pornographic references and even those show a complete lack of creativity.  Let me see if I can dumb it down for them;
> 
> 1 ) who gives nations a right to exist ?
> 
> 2 ) where is this right stated in law ?
> 
> 3 ) does one nations right to exist trump other nations right to exist ?
> 
> 4 ) how long does this right last and when does it start ?
> 
> 
> 
> These are open honest questions and I am looking for original ideas not old shop worn ideology.  Thank You.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Apply the same questions to any country and the answer to those would be the same as Israel's.  Except Israel's case is ten times stronger, since it never invaded or occupied another nation. It merely re established a homeland for the Jewish people in the land of its ancestors, from the remains of a fallen Ottoman Empire, 99% of the land going to Arabs and Muslims.
> 
> Muslims and anti Semites have a problem with a Jewish state being established in the ancient homeland of the Jews, in an all Muslim region? TOUGH SHIT.
Click to expand...


i did ask the initial question generally and asked for an answer that would include all states.

so you believe NAZI germany, apartheid south africa, the confederate states of america, stalinist russia all had the right to exist.

the jews are indigenous to northern iraq.

ancient homelands, especially those a people have abandoned for millenia, mean nothing. the ancient homeland of the celts extended from ireland all the way across southern europe with the exception o the boot of italy. do you actually think the remaing celts, mainly in ireland and the highkands of scotland and the diaspora, have a right to occupy that land. splendid...
The  Provisional IRA thanks you for your support.
signed: P O'Neill


not one single jew, who claim that israel has the right to exist, can explain what that concept entails.

you are not special to me. your people are not special to me. i was raised on anti-colonialism and told stories about how native peoples gained their freedoms from a very early age...why in the world do you think i should treat israel any differently. it is a state that has not yet gelled and it is a remnant o european colonialism

why are you so consumately arrogant that you think i should bow down and treat you differently than any other people. some colonisations can't be undone...those in the western hemisphere and australia, but israel can be and should be ondone and it is happening. it was doomed from the start. your people cannot even live with each other in peace. don't you think israel's neighbours see that.

so, if i don't treat jews as special people, i am an anti-semite. yrah. sure. guess what...don't care anymore. you guys call everyone an anti-semite if they don't agree with every little thing that israel or the jews say.


----------



## irosie91

You have made your point     No country has  "a right to exist"       now what?


----------



## Hossfly

irosie91 said:


> You have made your point     No country has  "a right to exist"       now what?


Take up a collection, buy Madagascar and give it to the Palisimians along with a one-way ticket.


----------



## P F Tinmore

loinboy said:


> Let's get one thing straight in regards to the OP,
> 
> 
> *"Nations don't have rights,
> people do!"​*



*Bingo!*

Rights are vested in the people not political entities. Most rights are hinged on the basic right to self determination. Who has these rights? The people inside a defined territory have the right to self determination. These people are said to be natives, indigenous, permanent populations, or normal residents. Nowhere is it mentioned that foreigners have the right to self determination.

*The only mention of foreigners is that foreign intervention that denies the people their rights is illegal.*

The creation of a state is the realization of the right to self determination. It predates statehood. It exists in the absence of a state.


----------



## irosie91

Right    Israel exists as an assertion of the RIGHTS OF THE JEWS LIVING IN THE LAND MASS CALLED PALESTINE and the ESCAPEES FROM THE FILTH OF SHARIAH OPPRESSION in the neighboring shariah cesspits     SOUTHERN SUDAN EXISTS in sudan as an assertion of the rights of non muslims living in the land called  Sudan    Hopefully----someday there will be a country in the middle east which exists for the rights of christian who have survived the filth of shariah ------and a country for the people called  KURDS who have the right to exist free of the filth of  arab oppression


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> Right    Israel exists as an assertion of the RIGHTS OF THE JEWS LIVING IN THE LAND MASS CALLED PALESTINE and the ESCAPEES FROM THE FILTH OF SHARIAH OPPRESSION in the neighboring shariah cesspits     SOUTHERN SUDAN EXISTS in sudan as an assertion of the rights of non muslims living in the land called  Sudan    Hopefully----someday there will be a country in the middle east which exists for the rights of christian who have survived the filth of shariah ------and a country for the people called  KURDS who have the right to exist free of the filth of  arab oppression



Whatever, Israel is an illegal foreign intervention.

Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right    Israel exists as an assertion of the RIGHTS OF THE JEWS LIVING IN THE LAND MASS CALLED PALESTINE and the ESCAPEES FROM THE FILTH OF SHARIAH OPPRESSION in the neighboring shariah cesspits     SOUTHERN SUDAN EXISTS in sudan as an assertion of the rights of non muslims living in the land called  Sudan    Hopefully----someday there will be a country in the middle east which exists for the rights of christian who have survived the filth of shariah ------and a country for the people called  KURDS who have the right to exist free of the filth of  arab oppression
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever, Israel is an illegal foreign intervention.
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.
Click to expand...


So?    all the people who signed the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE  in Philadelphia in 1776 were BORN BRITISH SUBJECTS       The people who signed for Israel's independence did so in the ONLY EXTANT LANGUAGE       native to palestine     ie HEBREW-----arabic was foisted on the area by invading dogs from arabia       You made not point-----no ---not true      you opened the conversation to the fact that   ARABIC DOES NOT BELONG IN PALESTINE


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right    Israel exists as an assertion of the RIGHTS OF THE JEWS LIVING IN THE LAND MASS CALLED PALESTINE and the ESCAPEES FROM THE FILTH OF SHARIAH OPPRESSION in the neighboring shariah cesspits     SOUTHERN SUDAN EXISTS in sudan as an assertion of the rights of non muslims living in the land called  Sudan    Hopefully----someday there will be a country in the middle east which exists for the rights of christian who have survived the filth of shariah ------and a country for the people called  KURDS who have the right to exist free of the filth of  arab oppression
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever, Israel is an illegal foreign intervention.
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?    all the people who signed the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE  in Philadelphia in 1776 were BORN BRITISH SUBJECTS       The people who signed for Israel's independence did so in the ONLY EXTANT LANGUAGE       native to palestine     ie HEBREW-----arabic was foisted on the area by invading dogs from arabia       You made not point-----no ---not true      you opened the conversation to the fact that   ARABIC DOES NOT BELONG IN PALESTINE
Click to expand...


Nice song and dance, but irrelevant.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right    Israel exists as an assertion of the RIGHTS OF THE JEWS LIVING IN THE LAND MASS CALLED PALESTINE and the ESCAPEES FROM THE FILTH OF SHARIAH OPPRESSION in the neighboring shariah cesspits     SOUTHERN SUDAN EXISTS in sudan as an assertion of the rights of non muslims living in the land called  Sudan    Hopefully----someday there will be a country in the middle east which exists for the rights of christian who have survived the filth of shariah ------and a country for the people called  KURDS who have the right to exist free of the filth of  arab oppression
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever, Israel is an illegal foreign intervention.
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.
Click to expand...


An "illegal foreign intervention" is primarily an Arab/Moslem invention. They view the land as an entitlement and wish to eliminate all competing religions. Islamism is based upon creed that it shall govern all men in all places.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right    Israel exists as an assertion of the RIGHTS OF THE JEWS LIVING IN THE LAND MASS CALLED PALESTINE and the ESCAPEES FROM THE FILTH OF SHARIAH OPPRESSION in the neighboring shariah cesspits     SOUTHERN SUDAN EXISTS in sudan as an assertion of the rights of non muslims living in the land called  Sudan    Hopefully----someday there will be a country in the middle east which exists for the rights of christian who have survived the filth of shariah ------and a country for the people called  KURDS who have the right to exist free of the filth of  arab oppression
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever, Israel is an illegal foreign intervention.
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An "illegal foreign intervention" is primarily an Arab/Moslem invention. They view the land as an entitlement and wish to eliminate all competing religions. Islamism is based upon creed that it shall govern all men in all places.
Click to expand...


You are grasping at straws. None of that means anything.


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever, Israel is an illegal foreign intervention.
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So?    all the people who signed the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE  in Philadelphia in 1776 were BORN BRITISH SUBJECTS       The people who signed for Israel's independence did so in the ONLY EXTANT LANGUAGE       native to palestine     ie HEBREW-----arabic was foisted on the area by invading dogs from arabia       You made not point-----no ---not true      you opened the conversation to the fact that   ARABIC DOES NOT BELONG IN PALESTINE
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice song and dance, but irrelevant.
Click to expand...


try again      what was  IRRELEVANT    was your post regarding the birth places of the people who fought for the independence of Israel and the right of jews to live free of the oppression you support       Here is a bit of news for you-----Israel exists on the backs of the jews who escaped  MUSLIM OPPRESSION       Some of the earliers  cities of MODERN ISRAEL were founded by those escapees       ----look to the history of  RISHON Le TZION   1882    (translatation----"at the first---those who arrived in  zion")      Try to keep in mind---palestine was INVADED BY THE DOGS OF ARABIA   only a few centuries earlier


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So?    all the people who signed the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE  in Philadelphia in 1776 were BORN BRITISH SUBJECTS       The people who signed for Israel's independence did so in the ONLY EXTANT LANGUAGE       native to palestine     ie HEBREW-----arabic was foisted on the area by invading dogs from arabia       You made not point-----no ---not true      you opened the conversation to the fact that   ARABIC DOES NOT BELONG IN PALESTINE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice song and dance, but irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> try again      what was  IRRELEVANT    was your post regarding the birth places of the people who fought for the independence of Israel and the right of jews to live free of the oppression you support       Here is a bit of news for you-----Israel exists on the backs of the jews who escaped  MUSLIM OPPRESSION       Some of the earliers  cities of MODERN ISRAEL were founded by those escapees       ----look to the history of  RISHON Le TZION   1882    (translatation----"at the first---those who arrived in  zion")      Try to keep in mind---palestine was INVADED BY THE DOGS OF ARABIA   only a few centuries earlier
Click to expand...


Foreigners do not have rights.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice song and dance, but irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> try again      what was  IRRELEVANT    was your post regarding the birth places of the people who fought for the independence of Israel and the right of jews to live free of the oppression you support       Here is a bit of news for you-----Israel exists on the backs of the jews who escaped  MUSLIM OPPRESSION       Some of the earliers  cities of MODERN ISRAEL were founded by those escapees       ----look to the history of  RISHON Le TZION   1882    (translatation----"at the first---those who arrived in  zion")      Try to keep in mind---palestine was INVADED BY THE DOGS OF ARABIA   only a few centuries earlier
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Foreigners do not have rights.
Click to expand...

Your opinion only


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> try again      what was  IRRELEVANT    was your post regarding the birth places of the people who fought for the independence of Israel and the right of jews to live free of the oppression you support       Here is a bit of news for you-----Israel exists on the backs of the jews who escaped  MUSLIM OPPRESSION       Some of the earliers  cities of MODERN ISRAEL were founded by those escapees       ----look to the history of  RISHON Le TZION   1882    (translatation----"at the first---those who arrived in  zion")      Try to keep in mind---palestine was INVADED BY THE DOGS OF ARABIA   only a few centuries earlier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foreigners do not have rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your opinion only
Click to expand...


Not so.



> By virtue of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations, all peoples have the right freely to determine, *without external interference,* their political status and to pursue their economic, social and cultural development, and every State has the duty to respect this right in accordance with the provisions of the Charter.
> 
> It is clearly illegal under international law to deprive a people of their right to self-determination by using forcible actions including use of violence.
> 
> The right to self-determination - IHL



Show me something that says foreigners have rights.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right    Israel exists as an assertion of the RIGHTS OF THE JEWS LIVING IN THE LAND MASS CALLED PALESTINE and the ESCAPEES FROM THE FILTH OF SHARIAH OPPRESSION in the neighboring shariah cesspits     SOUTHERN SUDAN EXISTS in sudan as an assertion of the rights of non muslims living in the land called  Sudan    Hopefully----someday there will be a country in the middle east which exists for the rights of christian who have survived the filth of shariah ------and a country for the people called  KURDS who have the right to exist free of the filth of  arab oppression
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever, Israel is an illegal foreign intervention.
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.
Click to expand...

Was Arafart the founder of the Palestinian movement "born in Palestine"?  Nope, he was born and raised in Egypt.  The Palestinians have more holes in their claims than Swiss Cheese.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice song and dance, but irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> try again      what was  IRRELEVANT    was your post regarding the birth places of the people who fought for the independence of Israel and the right of jews to live free of the oppression you support       Here is a bit of news for you-----Israel exists on the backs of the jews who escaped  MUSLIM OPPRESSION       Some of the earliers  cities of MODERN ISRAEL were founded by those escapees       ----look to the history of  RISHON Le TZION   1882    (translatation----"at the first---those who arrived in  zion")      Try to keep in mind---palestine was INVADED BY THE DOGS OF ARABIA   only a few centuries earlier
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Foreigners do not have rights.
Click to expand...

That's right, all the Arab invaders and squatters need to go back to where they came from.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right    Israel exists as an assertion of the RIGHTS OF THE JEWS LIVING IN THE LAND MASS CALLED PALESTINE and the ESCAPEES FROM THE FILTH OF SHARIAH OPPRESSION in the neighboring shariah cesspits     SOUTHERN SUDAN EXISTS in sudan as an assertion of the rights of non muslims living in the land called  Sudan    Hopefully----someday there will be a country in the middle east which exists for the rights of christian who have survived the filth of shariah ------and a country for the people called  KURDS who have the right to exist free of the filth of  arab oppression
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever, Israel is an illegal foreign intervention.
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was Arafart the founder of the Palestinian movement "born in Palestine"?  Nope, he was born and raised in Egypt.  The Palestinians have more holes in their claims than Swiss Cheese.
Click to expand...


What does that have to do with anything?


----------



## Roudy

reabhloideach said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> patrickcaturday said:
> 
> 
> 
> *These are several of the more cogent responses that Reabhloideach has received for his patient attempts to feed these people the answer to the questions that he poses.  Reabhloideach give it a break these people are incapable of answering any questions other then what is 1+1, and every other day they get that one wrong.  The only mistake that you made  ( one that I make almost every day) is that you try to talk to them in a rational manner.  They are so threatened by reasoned discourse that their only response is to fall back on their own failed ideology and this usually results in insults and pornographic references and even those show a complete lack of creativity.  Let me see if I can dumb it down for them;
> 
> 1 ) who gives nations a right to exist ?
> 
> 2 ) where is this right stated in law ?
> 
> 3 ) does one nations right to exist trump other nations right to exist ?
> 
> 4 ) how long does this right last and when does it start ?
> 
> 
> 
> These are open honest questions and I am looking for original ideas not old shop worn ideology.  Thank You.*
> 
> 
> 
> Apply the same questions to any country and the answer to those would be the same as Israel's.  Except Israel's case is ten times stronger, since it never invaded or occupied another nation. It merely re established a homeland for the Jewish people in the land of its ancestors, from the remains of a fallen Ottoman Empire, 99% of the land going to Arabs and Muslims.
> 
> Muslims and anti Semites have a problem with a Jewish state being established in the ancient homeland of the Jews, in an all Muslim region? TOUGH SHIT.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i did ask the initial question generally and asked for an answer that would include all states.
> 
> so you believe NAZI germany, apartheid south africa, the confederate states of america, stalinist russia all had the right to exist.
> 
> the jews are indigenous to northern iraq.
> 
> ancient homelands, especially those a people have abandoned for millenia, mean nothing. the ancient homeland of the celts extended from ireland all the way across southern europe with the exception o the boot of italy. do you actually think the remaing celts, mainly in ireland and the highkands of scotland and the diaspora, have a right to occupy that land. splendid...
> The  Provisional IRA thanks you for your support.
> signed: P O'Neill
> 
> 
> not one single jew, who claim that israel has the right to exist, can explain what that concept entails.
> 
> you are not special to me. your people are not special to me. i was raised on anti-colonialism and told stories about how native peoples gained their freedoms from a very early age...why in the world do you think i should treat israel any differently. it is a state that has not yet gelled and it is a remnant o european colonialism
> 
> why are you so consumately arrogant that you think i should bow down and treat you differently than any other people. some colonisations can't be undone...those in the western hemisphere and australia, but israel can be and should be ondone and it is happening. it was doomed from the start. your people cannot even live with each other in peace. don't you think israel's neighbours see that.
> 
> so, if i don't treat jews as special people, i am an anti-semite. yrah. sure. guess what...don't care anymore. you guys call everyone an anti-semite if they don't agree with every little thing that israel or the jews say.
Click to expand...

You reason  like a lunatic as well. Israel's right to exist is the same as all other nations. The reason it is brought up often with regards to Israel is mainly because it's enemies and anti Semites like yourself refuse to even acknowledge it as a legitimate nation, as you just did. 

Israel will exist and remain a prosperous, advanced, vibrant nation.  You anti Semites remind me of dogs that keep humping their masters leg. You just don't know any better.


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever, Israel is an illegal foreign intervention.
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> Was Arafart the founder of the Palestinian movement "born in Palestine"?  Nope, he was born and raised in Egypt.  The Palestinians have more holes in their claims than Swiss Cheese.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with anything?
Click to expand...


It was obviously important to arafart-----he lied and claimed to have been born in Jerusalem ------if it was not important to him----why would he have lied about it?


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right    Israel exists as an assertion of the RIGHTS OF THE JEWS LIVING IN THE LAND MASS CALLED PALESTINE and the ESCAPEES FROM THE FILTH OF SHARIAH OPPRESSION in the neighboring shariah cesspits     SOUTHERN SUDAN EXISTS in sudan as an assertion of the rights of non muslims living in the land called  Sudan    Hopefully----someday there will be a country in the middle east which exists for the rights of christian who have survived the filth of shariah ------and a country for the people called  KURDS who have the right to exist free of the filth of  arab oppression
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever, Israel is an illegal foreign intervention.
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.
Click to expand...

Hey here's a newsflash for Tinmore the Hamas terrorist propagandist...A PALESTINIAN STATE OR NATION HAS NEVER EXISTED IN HISTORY, IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. 

That, you can take to the bank.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever, Israel is an illegal foreign intervention.
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> Was Arafart the founder of the Palestinian movement "born in Palestine"?  Nope, he was born and raised in Egypt.  The Palestinians have more holes in their claims than Swiss Cheese.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with anything?
Click to expand...

Didn't you just say two posts ago that "foreigners do not have rights"?!  Now you're gonna have to swallow those words. The founder of the Palestinian movement was a "foreigner" from Egypt. 

What the fuck? Ha ha ha!


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was Arafart the founder of the Palestinian movement "born in Palestine"?  Nope, he was born and raised in Egypt.  The Palestinians have more holes in their claims than Swiss Cheese.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with anything?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was obviously important to arafart-----he lied and claimed to have been born in Jerusalem ------if it was not important to him----why would he have lied about it?
Click to expand...


And this is relevant how?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was Arafart the founder of the Palestinian movement "born in Palestine"?  Nope, he was born and raised in Egypt.  The Palestinians have more holes in their claims than Swiss Cheese.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with anything?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Didn't you just say two posts ago that "foreigners do not have rights"?!  Now you're gonna have to swallow those words. The founder of the Palestinian movement was a "foreigner" from Egypt.
> 
> What the fuck? Ha ha ha!
Click to expand...


Cool, then everything he signed with Israel, like Oslo, are illegitimate and void.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right    Israel exists as an assertion of the RIGHTS OF THE JEWS LIVING IN THE LAND MASS CALLED PALESTINE and the ESCAPEES FROM THE FILTH OF SHARIAH OPPRESSION in the neighboring shariah cesspits     SOUTHERN SUDAN EXISTS in sudan as an assertion of the rights of non muslims living in the land called  Sudan    Hopefully----someday there will be a country in the middle east which exists for the rights of christian who have survived the filth of shariah ------and a country for the people called  KURDS who have the right to exist free of the filth of  arab oppression
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever, Israel is an illegal foreign intervention.
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey here's a newsflash for Tinmore the Hamas terrorist propagandist...A PALESTINIAN STATE OR NATION HAS NEVER EXISTED IN HISTORY, IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.
> 
> That, you can take to the bank.
Click to expand...


It doesn't matter. The right to self determination exists separate from statehood.


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever, Israel is an illegal foreign intervention.
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey here's a newsflash for Tinmore the Hamas terrorist propagandist...A PALESTINIAN STATE OR NATION HAS NEVER EXISTED IN HISTORY, IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.
> 
> That, you can take to the bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter. The right to self determination exists separate from statehood.
Click to expand...



Good point----the jews of the middle east have a right to SELF DETERMINATION     as do the hindus of india      and the SIKHS OF PUNJAB


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with anything?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was obviously important to arafart-----he lied and claimed to have been born in Jerusalem ------if it was not important to him----why would he have lied about it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And this is relevant how?
Click to expand...

Arafat was born and raised in Cairo, got his degree in Egypt in 1956, moved to Kuwait and worked as a contractor. He started making money by selling weapons to Arabs who wanted to kill Jews.  Once he realized the money making potential,  he moved to Israel in 1964 and became a permanent revolutionary, creating a fictional Palestinian name for the Arabs and his movement. He died having stolen billion of his "people's" money, his wife hiding in Paris, refuses to send a dime nor will she set foot among "Palestinans".

Get it?  It's all crap from top to bottom.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with anything?
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't you just say two posts ago that "foreigners do not have rights"?!  Now you're gonna have to swallow those words. The founder of the Palestinian movement was a "foreigner" from Egypt.
> 
> What the fuck? Ha ha ha!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cool, then everything he signed with Israel, like Oslo, are illegitimate and void.
Click to expand...

Since when did Palestinians stand by anything they signed?


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't you just say two posts ago that "foreigners do not have rights"?!  Now you're gonna have to swallow those words. The founder of the Palestinian movement was a "foreigner" from Egypt.
> 
> What the fuck? Ha ha ha!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, then everything he signed with Israel, like Oslo, are illegitimate and void.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since when did Palestinians stand by anything they signed?
Click to expand...

You think having cool avatars makes you a cool guy?


----------



## Roudy

loinboy said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, then everything he signed with Israel, like Oslo, are illegitimate and void.
> 
> 
> 
> Since when did Palestinians stand by anything they signed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You think having cool avatars makes you a cool guy?
Click to expand...

Yeah let's talk about avatars!  That's just about the lamest diversion attempt I have ever witnessed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey here's a newsflash for Tinmore the Hamas terrorist propagandist...A PALESTINIAN STATE OR NATION HAS NEVER EXISTED IN HISTORY, IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.
> 
> That, you can take to the bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter. The right to self determination exists separate from statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Good point----the jews of the middle east have a right to SELF DETERMINATION     as do the hindus of india      and the SIKHS OF PUNJAB
Click to expand...


All the Jews who were Palestinian citizens had the same right to self determination in Palestine as the other Palestinians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was obviously important to arafart-----he lied and claimed to have been born in Jerusalem ------if it was not important to him----why would he have lied about it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is relevant how?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arafat was born and raised in Cairo, got his degree in Egypt in 1956, moved to Kuwait and worked as a contractor. He started making money by selling weapons to Arabs who wanted to kill Jews.  Once he realized the money making potential,  he moved to Israel in 1964 and became a permanent revolutionary, creating a fictional Palestinian name for the Arabs and his movement. He died having stolen billion of his "people's" money, his wife hiding in Paris, refuses to send a dime nor will she set foot among "Palestinans".
> 
> Get it?  It's all crap from top to bottom.
Click to expand...


Arafat was interested in Arafat. He sold his people out when Israel brought him back to Palestine.


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter. The right to self determination exists separate from statehood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good point----the jews of the middle east have a right to SELF DETERMINATION     as do the hindus of india      and the SIKHS OF PUNJAB
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All the Jews who were Palestinian citizens had the same right to self determination in Palestine as the other Palestinians.
Click to expand...


Could you define that term  "PALESTINIAN CITIZEN"   for me?     Before  1948 and for the preceding 2000 years the ONLY PEOPLE CALLED  "PALESTINIANS"   were jews        arabs did not become "palestinians"   until well into the 1960s      I have relatives who were born before 1948 and who lived in palestine------who still have papers marked  "PALESTINIAN"     a mark that never appeared on the governmental papers of any muslim at that time     For your own interest go to a library that has been around for a long time-----take a look at microfilmed periodicals----look for the  "TRAVEL" stuff       then look for the word  PALESTINIAN -------please note-----that  "palestinian"  is a jew if it refers to a person.    If it refers to a school------its a jewish school       If it refers to a hospital-----its a jewish hospital      Are you suggesting that ONLY JEWS HAVE RIGHTS in the land mass that had been called "palestine"  for about 2000 years?        gee---you are a radical zionist


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter. The right to self determination exists separate from statehood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good point----the jews of the middle east have a right to SELF DETERMINATION     as do the hindus of india      and the SIKHS OF PUNJAB
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All the Jews who were Palestinian citizens had the same right to self determination in Palestine as the other Palestinians.
Click to expand...

Tell you what, Israel exists as a nation because the Jews made the right choices and decisions that led to Israel being declared as a nation. The Arabs who now call themselves Palestinians, made a whole bunch of wrong choices and decisions, and now they don't want to face the consequences of their actions.  They will never have a state, simply because they don't just want a "state", they want to destroy Israel, and replace it with a Palestinian Islamist shithole. That of course will never happen, but go ahead hump that leg and masturbate if it makes you feel any better.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> And this is relevant how?
> 
> 
> 
> Arafat was born and raised in Cairo, got his degree in Egypt in 1956, moved to Kuwait and worked as a contractor. He started making money by selling weapons to Arabs who wanted to kill Jews.  Once he realized the money making potential,  he moved to Israel in 1964 and became a permanent revolutionary, creating a fictional Palestinian name for the Arabs and his movement. He died having stolen billion of his "people's" money, his wife hiding in Paris, refuses to send a dime nor will she set foot among "Palestinans".
> 
> Get it?  It's all crap from top to bottom.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arafat was interested in Arafat. He sold his people out when Israel brought him back to Palestine.
Click to expand...

Arafat was the founder of the Palestinian movement. He created the name Palestinian and gave it to the Arabs in 1964. He fabricated a lot of lies that are still being promoted today, such as "occupation" or "land theft" and kept the conflict going to line up his pockets with money other Arabs would send him to keep killing Jews.  Meanwhile using and abusing his people.   Although he is dead his legacy and lies are alive and still repeated by others such as Hamas.  And there's your source of "Palestinian suffering".


----------



## High_Gravity

Are these filthy anti semites really sitting here blathering on about the words right to exist? is this fucking rocket science? did I miss something?


----------



## georgephillip

*Area C?*

"Area C is home to about 300,000 Jewish settlers and 150,000 Palestinians, and critics say Israel is using an array of planning and administrative tools to restrict Palestinian development there while expanding settlements."

Israel To Evict Hundreds Of Palestinians From West Bank Hamlets


----------



## sealadaigh

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good point----the jews of the middle east have a right to SELF DETERMINATION     as do the hindus of india      and the SIKHS OF PUNJAB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All the Jews who were Palestinian citizens had the same right to self determination in Palestine as the other Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tell you what, Israel exists as a nation because the Jews made the right choices and decisions that led to Israel being declared as a nation. The Arabs who now call themselves Palestinians, made a whole bunch of wrong choices and decisions, and now they don't want to face the consequences of their actions.  They will never have a state, simply because they don't just want a "state", they want to destroy Israel, and replace it with a Palestinian Islamist shithole. That of course will never happen, but go ahead hump that leg and masturbate if it makes you feel any better.
Click to expand...


settle down. you get so excited. also, don't confuse nation with state.

so, when and who declared israel a state exactly. is there a document or anything.

the arab league has recognised israel as a state, by the way, and palestine is part of the arab league.

and what the hell??? you get all pissy because of what. israel is insisting that every swingin' dick recognises their "right to exist." it would not have even been an issue had not israel brought it up in the first place, and now you want to go all aggro because i ask a simple question which is..."WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?" it sees you, and other jews, don't even know. and forr the record...i never ever said that israel did not have a right to exist.

(p.s. we sort of are diverting from my earlier questions, which were kind of more general, but that's OK. if you want to focus on israel specifically...)


----------



## sealadaigh

High_Gravity said:


> Are these filthy anti semites really sitting here blathering on about the words right to exist? is this fucking rocket science? did I miss something?



yes, you did miss soething. you missed answering the question.

and, it is actually more complicated than rocket science, but you wouldn't understand that.

ya know, if someone asks me what 2+2 is, i am going to say 4. you, on the other hand with all your self proclaimed intelligence, go on post after post not answering a question that you claim has a simple answer.

kinda makes you look like the stupid one, what with all your tough guy bellowing and all.

and it is your boyos blatherinng about the "right to exist." they don't even know what it means, but you do? their "right to exist" changes on their whim. lookie here...ow the hell do you think a jew would feel if tomorrow, all new jewish immigrants, as a condition of their immigration, if they had to recognise america's right to exist as a christian state and that all jews currently living here do so also.

hell, we may as well go for recognition as a right to exist as a catholic state, what with all my brown skinned brothers and sisters coming up from the south...lol.


----------



## irosie91

reabhloideach said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are these filthy anti semites really sitting here blathering on about the words right to exist? is this fucking rocket science? did I miss something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes, you did miss soething. you missed answering the question.
> 
> and, it is actually more complicated than rocket science, but you wouldn't understand that.
> 
> ya know, if someone asks me what 2+2 is, i am going to say 4. you, on the other hand with all your self proclaimed intelligence, go on post after post not answering a question that you claim has a simple answer.
> 
> kinda makes you look like the stupid one, what with all your tough guy bellowing and all.
> and it is your boyos blatherinng about the "right to exist." they don't even know what it means, but you do? their "right to exist" changes on their whim. lookie here...ow the hell do you think a jew would feel if tomorrow, all new jewish immigrants, as a condition of their immigration, if they had to recognise america's right to exist as a christian state and that all jews currently living here do so also.
> 
> hell, we may as well go for recognition as a right to exist as a catholic state, what with all my brown skinned brothers and sisters coming up from the south...lol.
Click to expand...





      you tried by failed again      Israel is not asking the US to recognize it as a jewish country-----it is asking its neighbors that insist they are MUSLIM countries to recognize Israel as a jewish country.       Primitive as it may seem to you----the fact is that Israel is dealing with primitive people who SPECIFICALLY   do not recognize jews as being ELIGIBLE  to have a country      In order to understand the issue----you have to know a bit about shariah law and dhimmia       In the islamic system (shariah)  of government----non muslims are not actual citizens--------they are considered a CONQUORED TRIBUTORY nation with no power at all.    In fact in islamic law----non muslims cannot own or use weapons    or----RIDE HORSES OR CAMELS  ---(this is a big deal because those are the animals military people use------in the caliphate)      For these reasons-----ISLAM CANNOT RECOGNIZE ISRAEL AS A STATE-----for ISLAM ---A COUNTRY OF JEWS MUST BE A CONQUORED TRIBUTORY STATE  ---nothing else computes

The good news is that muslims CAN recognize christian countries-----in the world----somewhere else-----like in Europe or Mars   ---------as long as this depravity does not exist anywhere near the  KINGDOM OF ISLAM       DAR AL ISLAM     Do not fret---muslims cannot recognize a HINDU INDIA   either      even though PAKISTAN is by definition   "the pure muslim state"        Islam sees all of the Indian subcontinent as conquored and eventually a land entirely tributory to the  ISLAMIC STATE

   getting back to Israel     Israel as a jewish state is a matter equity    For Israel to NOT 
DEMAND recognition as a jewish state is----in the islamic mind----a TRIUMPH OF ISLAM OVER JUDAISM    (weird but true)


----------



## Roudy

reabhloideach said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All the Jews who were Palestinian citizens had the same right to self determination in Palestine as the other Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> Tell you what, Israel exists as a nation because the Jews made the right choices and decisions that led to Israel being declared as a nation. The Arabs who now call themselves Palestinians, made a whole bunch of wrong choices and decisions, and now they don't want to face the consequences of their actions.  They will never have a state, simply because they don't just want a "state", they want to destroy Israel, and replace it with a Palestinian Islamist shithole. That of course will never happen, but go ahead hump that leg and masturbate if it makes you feel any better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> settle down. you get so excited. also, don't confuse nation with state.
> 
> so, when and who declared israel a state exactly. is there a document or anything.
> 
> the arab league has recognised israel as a state, by the way, and palestine is part of the arab league.
> 
> and what the hell??? you get all pissy because of what. israel is insisting that every swingin' dick recognises their "right to exist." it would not have even been an issue had not israel brought it up in the first place, and now you want to go all aggro because i ask a simple question which is..."WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?" it sees you, and other jews, don't even know. and forr the record...i never ever said that israel did not have a right to exist.
> 
> (p.s. we sort of are diverting from my earlier questions, which were kind of more general, but that's OK. if you want to focus on israel specifically...)
Click to expand...

You keep getting the facts wrong and making illogical conclusions based on those erroneous facts, and then adding even more incorrect facts to it. You're either totally ignorant or just a bad liar. There are plenty of Arab Muslim states that do not even recognize Israel as a state, and call for its destruction on a daily basis. Iran, Syria, Pakistan and of course the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas who even has this deflation written its charter.


----------



## patrickcaturday

> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are these filthy anti semites really sitting here blathering on about the words right to exist? is this fucking rocket science? did I miss something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes, you did miss soething. you missed answering the question.
> 
> and, it is actually more complicated than rocket science, but you wouldn't understand that.
> 
> ya know, if someone asks me what 2+2 is, i am going to say 4. you, on the other hand with all your self proclaimed intelligence, go on post after post not answering a question that you claim has a simple answer.
> 
> kinda makes you look like the stupid one, what with all your tough guy bellowing and all.
> 
> and it is your boyos blatherinng about the "right to exist." they don't even know what it means, but you do? their "right to exist" changes on their whim. lookie here...ow the hell do you think a jew would feel if tomorrow, all new jewish immigrants, as a condition of their immigration, if they had to recognise america's right to exist as a christian state and that all jews currently living here do so also.
> 
> hell, we may as well go for recognition as a right to exist as a catholic state, what with all my brown skinned brothers and sisters coming up from the south...lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



*Reabhloideach;

These people are clueless , they are examples of the children left behind !!!  I hate to be so harsh but I have been following this thread for a while and they are hopelessly out of their depth.  I just can't figure out weather they are doing it on purpose or they are intellectual paupers who cannot answer.  Let me repeat the questions for them;



1 ) who gives nations a right to exist ?

2 ) where is this right stated in law ?

3 ) does one nations right to exist trump other nations right to exist ?

4 ) how long does this right last and when does it start ?




Now because they seem to be clueless let me give them one.  Start with the proposition that there is no right to exist for a state.  That should get you on the right track, now all it will take is the ability to think logically and a willingness to answer the question honestly.  Its the honestly part that worries me.*


----------



## Roudy

patrickcaturday said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes, you did miss soething. you missed answering the question.
> 
> and, it is actually more complicated than rocket science, but you wouldn't understand that.
> 
> ya know, if someone asks me what 2+2 is, i am going to say 4. you, on the other hand with all your self proclaimed intelligence, go on post after post not answering a question that you claim has a simple answer.
> 
> kinda makes you look like the stupid one, what with all your tough guy bellowing and all.
> 
> and it is your boyos blatherinng about the "right to exist." they don't even know what it means, but you do? their "right to exist" changes on their whim. lookie here...ow the hell do you think a jew would feel if tomorrow, all new jewish immigrants, as a condition of their immigration, if they had to recognise america's right to exist as a christian state and that all jews currently living here do so also.
> 
> hell, we may as well go for recognition as a right to exist as a catholic state, what with all my brown skinned brothers and sisters coming up from the south...lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Reabhloideach;
> 
> These people are clueless , they are examples of the children left behind !!!  I hate to be so harsh but I have been following this thread for a while and they are hopelessly out of their depth.  I just can't figure out weather they are doing it on purpose or they are intellectual paupers who cannot answer.  Let me repeat the questions for them;
> 
> 
> 
> 1 ) who gives nations a right to exist ?
> 
> 2 ) where is this right stated in law ?
> 
> 3 ) does one nations right to exist trump other nations right to exist ?
> 
> 4 ) how long does this right last and when does it start ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now because they seem to be clueless let me give them one.  Start with the proposition that there is no right to exist for a state.  That should get you on the right track, now all it will take is the ability to think logically and a willingness to answer the question honestly.  Its the honestly part that worries me.*
Click to expand...

Idiot:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_exist
Thomas Paine used the phrase "right to exist" to refer to forms of government, arguing that representative government has a right to exist, but that hereditary government does not.[3] In 1823, Sir Walter Scott argued for the "right to exist in the Greek people".[4] (The Greeks were then revolting against Turkish rule.) According to Renan's "What is a Nation?" (1882), "A state has the right to exist when it gives proof of its strength by the sacrifices which demand the abdication of the individual."[5] Existence is not a historical right, but "a daily plebiscite, just as an individual's existence is a perpetual affirmation of life," Renan said.[5] The phrase gained enormous usage in reference to the breakup of the Ottoman Empire in 1918. "If Turkey has a right to exist &#8211; and the Powers are very prompt to assert that she has &#8211; she possesses an equally good right to defend herself against all attempts to imperil her political existence," wrote Eliakim and Robert Littell in 1903.[6] In many cases, a nation's right to exist is not questioned, and is therefore not asserted, for example in the case of India.[7]


----------



## irosie91

Folks   LET'S SIMPLIFY      for every complicated question, there is a simple answer.     Israel demands that its RIGHT TO EXIST BE RECOGNIZED  ----for a very simple reason-------It all started when  more than One billion jihadist pigs declared that   "ISRAEL DOES NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO EXIST"          The comments by the jihadist supporters that   ISRAEL or "JEWS"  invented this strange demand of  "RECOGNITION OF RIGHT TO EXIST"    is truly hilarious------nope       YOUR JIHADIST PIG FRIENDS INVENTED the  "non right to exist"      Israel did what Israel does      It responded to your disgusting filth


----------



## sealadaigh

Roudy said:


> patrickcaturday said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Reabhloideach;
> 
> These people are clueless , they are examples of the children left behind !!!  I hate to be so harsh but I have been following this thread for a while and they are hopelessly out of their depth.  I just can't figure out weather they are doing it on purpose or they are intellectual paupers who cannot answer.  Let me repeat the questions for them;
> 
> 
> 
> 1 ) who gives nations a right to exist ?
> 
> 2 ) where is this right stated in law ?
> 
> 3 ) does one nations right to exist trump other nations right to exist ?
> 
> 4 ) how long does this right last and when does it start ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now because they seem to be clueless let me give them one.  Start with the proposition that there is no right to exist for a state.  That should get you on the right track, now all it will take is the ability to think logically and a willingness to answer the question honestly.  Its the honestly part that worries me.*
> 
> 
> 
> Idiot:
> 
> Right to exist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Thomas Paine used the phrase "right to exist" to refer to forms of government, arguing that representative government has a right to exist, but that hereditary government does not.[3] In 1823, Sir Walter Scott argued for the "right to exist in the Greek people".[4] (The Greeks were then revolting against Turkish rule.) According to Renan's "What is a Nation?" (1882), "A state has the right to exist when it gives proof of its strength by the sacrifices which demand the abdication of the individual."[5] Existence is not a historical right, but "a daily plebiscite, just as an individual's existence is a perpetual affirmation of life," Renan said.[5] The phrase gained enormous usage in reference to the breakup of the Ottoman Empire in 1918. "If Turkey has a right to exist  and the Powers are very prompt to assert that she has  she possesses an equally good right to defend herself against all attempts to imperil her political existence," wrote Eliakim and Robert Littell in 1903.[6] In many cases, a nation's right to exist is not questioned, and is therefore not asserted, for example in the case of India.[7]
Click to expand...


so, we have this vague concept, but at least we are getting somewhere. sorta noticed, by the way, that the states used as examples were states in revolt.

whatever it is, abu ammar as head of the PLO acknowledged in writing that israel has a right to exist to yitzak shamir, and there was also acknowledgement at the time that the PLO would go on to become the PA. abu ammar himself said "the PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel's right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid."

so, this was done in oslo in 1993 and all israel has done is stall and stall and keep on insisting upon (?something/someone?) to recognise israel's right to exist before israel sit down to negotiate...and israel uses this stall to continue settlement building (thanks , georgephilips, for the link and area C) and palestine comes closer and closer to not existing, which, if that happens, will be genocide according to international law.

so what is the freaking problem over there. seriously, you got what you want. sometimes i almost think the palestinians agree to almost everything you ask for just to see how big of a fool israel is going to make of herself next.

dude, you better abandon that snip snip ritual cause you are gonna need as much of mr. dangle as you can get if you keep on stepping on it this way

but ta da...BOWING DEEPLY..."WOOOHOOO!!! I GOT AN ANSWER!!!"


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever, Israel is an illegal foreign intervention.
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey here's a newsflash for Tinmore the Hamas terrorist propagandist...A PALESTINIAN STATE OR NATION HAS NEVER EXISTED IN HISTORY, IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.
> 
> That, you can take to the bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter. The right to self determination exists separate from statehood.
Click to expand...

A little tidbit of background information to help you out, Tinny.

The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem - CEIRPP, DPR study - Foreword, table of contents (30 June 1990)


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey here's a newsflash for Tinmore the Hamas terrorist propagandist...A PALESTINIAN STATE OR NATION HAS NEVER EXISTED IN HISTORY, IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.
> 
> That, you can take to the bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter. The right to self determination exists separate from statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A little tidbit of background information to help you out, Tinny.
> 
> The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem - CEIRPP, DPR study - Foreword, table of contents (30 June 1990)
Click to expand...


Thanks for the link.

This validates what I have been saying all along. Particularly part I.

The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem - CEIRPP, DPR study, part I: 1917-1947 (30 June 1978)


----------



## Roudy

reabhloideach said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> patrickcaturday said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Reabhloideach;
> 
> These people are clueless , they are examples of the children left behind !!!  I hate to be so harsh but I have been following this thread for a while and they are hopelessly out of their depth.  I just can't figure out weather they are doing it on purpose or they are intellectual paupers who cannot answer.  Let me repeat the questions for them;
> 
> 
> 
> 1 ) who gives nations a right to exist ?
> 
> 2 ) where is this right stated in law ?
> 
> 3 ) does one nations right to exist trump other nations right to exist ?
> 
> 4 ) how long does this right last and when does it start ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now because they seem to be clueless let me give them one.  Start with the proposition that there is no right to exist for a state.  That should get you on the right track, now all it will take is the ability to think logically and a willingness to answer the question honestly.  Its the honestly part that worries me.*
> 
> 
> 
> Idiot:
> 
> Right to exist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Thomas Paine used the phrase "right to exist" to refer to forms of government, arguing that representative government has a right to exist, but that hereditary government does not.[3] In 1823, Sir Walter Scott argued for the "right to exist in the Greek people".[4] (The Greeks were then revolting against Turkish rule.) According to Renan's "What is a Nation?" (1882), "A state has the right to exist when it gives proof of its strength by the sacrifices which demand the abdication of the individual."[5] Existence is not a historical right, but "a daily plebiscite, just as an individual's existence is a perpetual affirmation of life," Renan said.[5] The phrase gained enormous usage in reference to the breakup of the Ottoman Empire in 1918. "If Turkey has a right to exist  and the Powers are very prompt to assert that she has  she possesses an equally good right to defend herself against all attempts to imperil her political existence," wrote Eliakim and Robert Littell in 1903.[6] In many cases, a nation's right to exist is not questioned, and is therefore not asserted, for example in the case of India.[7]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so, we have this vague concept, but at least we are getting somewhere. sorta noticed, by the way, that the states used as examples were states in revolt.
> 
> whatever it is, abu ammar as head of the PLO acknowledged in writing that israel has a right to exist to yitzak shamir, and there was also acknowledgement at the time that the PLO would go on to become the PA. abu ammar himself said "the PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel's right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid."
> 
> so, this was done in oslo in 1993 and all israel has done is stall and stall and keep on insisting upon (?something/someone?) to recognise israel's right to exist before israel sit down to negotiate...and israel uses this stall to continue settlement building (thanks , georgephilips, for the link and area C) and palestine comes closer and closer to not existing, which, if that happens, will be genocide according to international law.
> 
> so what is the freaking problem over there. seriously, you got what you want. sometimes i almost think the palestinians agree to almost everything you ask for just to see how big of a fool israel is going to make of herself next.
> 
> dude, you better abandon that snip snip ritual cause you are gonna need as much of mr. dangle as you can get if you keep on stepping on it this way
> 
> but ta da...BOWING DEEPLY..."WOOOHOOO!!! I GOT AN ANSWER!!!"
Click to expand...

Chimp can't even read. 

Israel
In 1947, the United Nations affirmed the right of an "Arab State" and a "Jewish State" to exist within Palestine. The Jewish Agency, precursor to the Israeli government, agreed to the plan, but several Arab states rejected it and attacked Israel after its May 14, 1948 declaration of independence, escalating a civil war into the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. The legal and territorial status of Israel and Palestine is still hotly disputed in the region and within the international community. In the 1950s and 1960s Arab leaders did not acknowledge that Israel had a right to exist.[13] The issue was described as the central one between Israel and the Arabs, by James Farell Thomas, the Trotskyist American novelist.[14] After the June 1967 war, Egyptian spokesman Mohammed H. el-Zayyat stated that Cairo had accepted Israel's right to exist since the signing of the Egyptian-Israeli armistice in 1949.[15] He added that this did not imply recognition of Israel.[15] In September, the Arab leaders adopted a hardline "three no's" position in the Khartoum Resolution: No peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, and no negotiations with Israel.[16] But in November, Egypt accepted UN Security Council Resolution 242, which implied acceptance of Israel's right to exist. King Hussein of Jordan also acknowledged that Israel had a right to exist at this time.


----------



## sealadaigh

Roudy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Idiot:
> 
> Right to exist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Thomas Paine used the phrase "right to exist" to refer to forms of government, arguing that representative government has a right to exist, but that hereditary government does not.[3] In 1823, Sir Walter Scott argued for the "right to exist in the Greek people".[4] (The Greeks were then revolting against Turkish rule.) According to Renan's "What is a Nation?" (1882), "A state has the right to exist when it gives proof of its strength by the sacrifices which demand the abdication of the individual."[5] Existence is not a historical right, but "a daily plebiscite, just as an individual's existence is a perpetual affirmation of life," Renan said.[5] The phrase gained enormous usage in reference to the breakup of the Ottoman Empire in 1918. "If Turkey has a right to exist  and the Powers are very prompt to assert that she has  she possesses an equally good right to defend herself against all attempts to imperil her political existence," wrote Eliakim and Robert Littell in 1903.[6] In many cases, a nation's right to exist is not questioned, and is therefore not asserted, for example in the case of India.[7]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so, we have this vague concept, but at least we are getting somewhere. sorta noticed, by the way, that the states used as examples were states in revolt.
> 
> whatever it is, abu ammar as head of the PLO acknowledged in writing that israel has a right to exist to yitzak shamir, and there was also acknowledgement at the time that the PLO would go on to become the PA. abu ammar himself said "the PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel's right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid."
> 
> so, this was done in oslo in 1993 and all israel has done is stall and stall and keep on insisting upon (?something/someone?) to recognise israel's right to exist before israel sit down to negotiate...and israel uses this stall to continue settlement building (thanks , georgephilips, for the link and area C) and palestine comes closer and closer to not existing, which, if that happens, will be genocide according to international law.
> 
> so what is the freaking problem over there. seriously, you got what you want. sometimes i almost think the palestinians agree to almost everything you ask for just to see how big of a fool israel is going to make of herself next.
> 
> dude, you better abandon that snip snip ritual cause you are gonna need as much of mr. dangle as you can get if you keep on stepping on it this way
> 
> but ta da...BOWING DEEPLY..."WOOOHOOO!!! I GOT AN ANSWER!!!"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Chimp can't even read.
> 
> Israel
> In 1947, the United Nations affirmed the right of an "Arab State" and a "Jewish State" to exist within Palestine. The Jewish Agency, precursor to the Israeli government, agreed to the plan, but several Arab states rejected it and attacked Israel after its May 14, 1948 declaration of independence, escalating a civil war into the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. The legal and territorial status of Israel and Palestine is still hotly disputed in the region and within the international community. In the 1950s and 1960s Arab leaders did not acknowledge that Israel had a right to exist.[13] The issue was described as the central one between Israel and the Arabs, by James Farell Thomas, the Trotskyist American novelist.[14] After the June 1967 war, Egyptian spokesman Mohammed H. el-Zayyat stated that Cairo had accepted Israel's right to exist since the signing of the Egyptian-Israeli armistice in 1949.[15] He added that this did not imply recognition of Israel.[15] In September, the Arab leaders adopted a hardline "three no's" position in the Khartoum Resolution: No peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, and no negotiations with Israel.[16] But in November, Egypt accepted UN Security Council Resolution 242, which implied acceptance of Israel's right to exist. King Hussein of Jordan also acknowledged that Israel had a right to exist at this time.
Click to expand...


Right to exist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

thought i would get the link out of the way so as to avoid copyright infringement for copying your copyright infringement. you do realise, i hope, that each time you quote something on a new post, especially if it is new material, that you have to acknowledge the source again. some of the mods are pretty arbitrary on their rulings so i kinda figured they could ding me but let you slide. life's like that.

ok. try to keep up. i can read quite well and we have moved on beyond that. we are at the point where israel is still asking for the PA to acknowledge israels right to exist...when the PA has already acknowledged such in 1993 in an official latter by abu ammar, i sometimes like to use the nom de guerre but if you prefer, yasser arafat.

what the hell exactly do you want me to read, Common Sense. Agrarian Justice, what's that other one, The Age of Reason...it has been a long time since i read those.

sorry, chief, you lost me. say it in your own words instead of cutting and pasting something that actually proves one of my contentions, that you guys have no clue whatsoever what israel's "right to exist" means. posting a blurb about how some of the great thinkers thought, discussed, and disagreed on the issue proves nothing...well, except that maybe that my dear friend, high gravity, has know idea what he is talking about and that his constant "you're ann idiot. everybody knows what it means." is just a cover for his own ignorance and, perhaps, actual stupidity. lolol...the boyo probably has one of the penis envy things going on too. faux tough guys like him usually do, but he'll probably deny it.

anyway, everybody from here and heading west to timbuktu has recognised israels right to exist, many implicity...but some very explicity to include the arab states, so why is israel continuing to insist on that recognition before they enter into negotiations?

(hint: i have answered that question at least a couple of times in prior posts.)


----------



## High_Gravity

reabhloideach said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are these filthy anti semites really sitting here blathering on about the words right to exist? is this fucking rocket science? did I miss something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes, you did miss soething. you missed answering the question.
> 
> and, it is actually more complicated than rocket science, but you wouldn't understand that.
> 
> ya know, if someone asks me what 2+2 is, i am going to say 4. you, on the other hand with all your self proclaimed intelligence, go on post after post not answering a question that you claim has a simple answer.
> 
> kinda makes you look like the stupid one, what with all your tough guy bellowing and all.
> 
> and it is your boyos blatherinng about the "right to exist." they don't even know what it means, but you do? their "right to exist" changes on their whim. lookie here...ow the hell do you think a jew would feel if tomorrow, all new jewish immigrants, as a condition of their immigration, if they had to recognise america's right to exist as a christian state and that all jews currently living here do so also.
> 
> hell, we may as well go for recognition as a right to exist as a catholic state, what with all my brown skinned brothers and sisters coming up from the south...lol.
Click to expand...


Blah blah blah, you are such a boring dull poster and English doesn't seem to be your first language. Google up the words "Right to exist" and have someone translate them to you in your native tongue and stop wasting bandwidth with your bullshit. You are dismissed.


----------



## Roudy

reabhloideach said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> so, we have this vague concept, but at least we are getting somewhere. sorta noticed, by the way, that the states used as examples were states in revolt.
> 
> whatever it is, abu ammar as head of the PLO acknowledged in writing that israel has a right to exist to yitzak shamir, and there was also acknowledgement at the time that the PLO would go on to become the PA. abu ammar himself said "the PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel's right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid."
> 
> so, this was done in oslo in 1993 and all israel has done is stall and stall and keep on insisting upon (?something/someone?) to recognise israel's right to exist before israel sit down to negotiate...and israel uses this stall to continue settlement building (thanks , georgephilips, for the link and area C) and palestine comes closer and closer to not existing, which, if that happens, will be genocide according to international law.
> 
> so what is the freaking problem over there. seriously, you got what you want. sometimes i almost think the palestinians agree to almost everything you ask for just to see how big of a fool israel is going to make of herself next.
> 
> dude, you better abandon that snip snip ritual cause you are gonna need as much of mr. dangle as you can get if you keep on stepping on it this way
> 
> but ta da...BOWING DEEPLY..."WOOOHOOO!!! I GOT AN ANSWER!!!"
> 
> 
> 
> Chimp can't even read.
> 
> Israel
> In 1947, the United Nations affirmed the right of an "Arab State" and a "Jewish State" to exist within Palestine. The Jewish Agency, precursor to the Israeli government, agreed to the plan, but several Arab states rejected it and attacked Israel after its May 14, 1948 declaration of independence, escalating a civil war into the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. The legal and territorial status of Israel and Palestine is still hotly disputed in the region and within the international community. In the 1950s and 1960s Arab leaders did not acknowledge that Israel had a right to exist.[13] The issue was described as the central one between Israel and the Arabs, by James Farell Thomas, the Trotskyist American novelist.[14] After the June 1967 war, Egyptian spokesman Mohammed H. el-Zayyat stated that Cairo had accepted Israel's right to exist since the signing of the Egyptian-Israeli armistice in 1949.[15] He added that this did not imply recognition of Israel.[15] In September, the Arab leaders adopted a hardline "three no's" position in the Khartoum Resolution: No peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, and no negotiations with Israel.[16] But in November, Egypt accepted UN Security Council Resolution 242, which implied acceptance of Israel's right to exist. King Hussein of Jordan also acknowledged that Israel had a right to exist at this time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right to exist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> thought i would get the link out of the way so as to avoid copyright infringement for copying your copyright infringement. you do realise, i hope, that each time you quote something on a new post, especially if it is new material, that you have to acknowledge the source again. some of the mods are pretty arbitrary on their rulings so i kinda figured they could ding me but let you slide. life's like that.
> 
> ok. try to keep up. i can read quite well and we have moved on beyond that. we are at the point where israel is still asking for the PA to acknowledge israels right to exist...when the PA has already acknowledged such in 1993 in an official latter by abu ammar, i sometimes like to use the nom de guerre but if you prefer, yasser arafat.
> 
> what the hell exactly do you want me to read, Common Sense. Agrarian Justice, what's that other one, The Age of Reason...it has been a long time since i read those.
> 
> sorry, chief, you lost me. say it in your own words instead of cutting and pasting something that actually proves one of my contentions, that you guys have no clue whatsoever what israel's "right to exist" means. posting a blurb about how some of the great thinkers thought, discussed, and disagreed on the issue proves nothing...well, except that maybe that my dear friend, high gravity, has know idea what he is talking about and that his constant "you're ann idiot. everybody knows what it means." is just a cover for his own ignorance and, perhaps, actual stupidity. lolol...the boyo probably has one of the penis envy things going on too. faux tough guys like him usually do, but he'll probably deny it.
> 
> anyway, everybody from here and heading west to timbuktu has recognised israels right to exist, many implicity...but some very explicity to include the arab states, so why is israel continuing to insist on that recognition before they enter into negotiations?
> 
> (hint: i have answered that question at least a couple of times in prior posts.)
Click to expand...

Donkey, if you had the ability to understand what you are reading, instead of posting all this nonsense and blabber, you would conclude that it is the Arabs and Muslims that have beought forth Israel's right to exist and challenged Israel's legitimacy from the beginning, and attacked her many times due to this very reason. Hence Israel will obviously enter into peace negotiations with those that accept her right to exist, such as Egypt and Jordan, and refuses to deal with those entities that call for her destruction. Such as Hamas.


----------



## Roudy

High_Gravity said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are these filthy anti semites really sitting here blathering on about the words right to exist? is this fucking rocket science? did I miss something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes, you did miss soething. you missed answering the question.
> 
> and, it is actually more complicated than rocket science, but you wouldn't understand that.
> 
> ya know, if someone asks me what 2+2 is, i am going to say 4. you, on the other hand with all your self proclaimed intelligence, go on post after post not answering a question that you claim has a simple answer.
> 
> kinda makes you look like the stupid one, what with all your tough guy bellowing and all.
> 
> and it is your boyos blatherinng about the "right to exist." they don't even know what it means, but you do? their "right to exist" changes on their whim. lookie here...ow the hell do you think a jew would feel if tomorrow, all new jewish immigrants, as a condition of their immigration, if they had to recognise america's right to exist as a christian state and that all jews currently living here do so also.
> 
> hell, we may as well go for recognition as a right to exist as a catholic state, what with all my brown skinned brothers and sisters coming up from the south...lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah, you are such a boring dull poster and English doesn't seem to be your first language. Google up the words "Right to exist" and have someone translate them to you in your native tongue and stop wasting bandwidth with your bullshit. You are dismissed.
Click to expand...

Exactly. He makes it sound like its a new or foreign term, or somehow vague. It's like asking "what are women's rights"? The phrase "right to exist" is pretty self explanatory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chimp can't even read.
> 
> Israel
> In 1947, the United Nations affirmed the right of an "Arab State" and a "Jewish State" to exist within Palestine. The Jewish Agency, precursor to the Israeli government, agreed to the plan, but several Arab states rejected it and attacked Israel after its May 14, 1948 declaration of independence, escalating a civil war into the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. The legal and territorial status of Israel and Palestine is still hotly disputed in the region and within the international community. In the 1950s and 1960s Arab leaders did not acknowledge that Israel had a right to exist.[13] The issue was described as the central one between Israel and the Arabs, by James Farell Thomas, the Trotskyist American novelist.[14] After the June 1967 war, Egyptian spokesman Mohammed H. el-Zayyat stated that Cairo had accepted Israel's right to exist since the signing of the Egyptian-Israeli armistice in 1949.[15] He added that this did not imply recognition of Israel.[15] In September, the Arab leaders adopted a hardline "three no's" position in the Khartoum Resolution: No peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, and no negotiations with Israel.[16] But in November, Egypt accepted UN Security Council Resolution 242, which implied acceptance of Israel's right to exist. King Hussein of Jordan also acknowledged that Israel had a right to exist at this time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right to exist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> thought i would get the link out of the way so as to avoid copyright infringement for copying your copyright infringement. you do realise, i hope, that each time you quote something on a new post, especially if it is new material, that you have to acknowledge the source again. some of the mods are pretty arbitrary on their rulings so i kinda figured they could ding me but let you slide. life's like that.
> 
> ok. try to keep up. i can read quite well and we have moved on beyond that. we are at the point where israel is still asking for the PA to acknowledge israels right to exist...when the PA has already acknowledged such in 1993 in an official latter by abu ammar, i sometimes like to use the nom de guerre but if you prefer, yasser arafat.
> 
> what the hell exactly do you want me to read, Common Sense. Agrarian Justice, what's that other one, The Age of Reason...it has been a long time since i read those.
> 
> sorry, chief, you lost me. say it in your own words instead of cutting and pasting something that actually proves one of my contentions, that you guys have no clue whatsoever what israel's "right to exist" means. posting a blurb about how some of the great thinkers thought, discussed, and disagreed on the issue proves nothing...well, except that maybe that my dear friend, high gravity, has know idea what he is talking about and that his constant "you're ann idiot. everybody knows what it means." is just a cover for his own ignorance and, perhaps, actual stupidity. lolol...the boyo probably has one of the penis envy things going on too. faux tough guys like him usually do, but he'll probably deny it.
> 
> anyway, everybody from here and heading west to timbuktu has recognised israels right to exist, many implicity...but some very explicity to include the arab states, so why is israel continuing to insist on that recognition before they enter into negotiations?
> 
> (hint: i have answered that question at least a couple of times in prior posts.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Donkey, if you had the ability to understand what you are reading, instead of posting all this nonsense and blabber, you would conclude that it is the Arabs and Muslims that have beought forth Israel's right to exist and challenged Israel's legitimacy from the beginning, and attacked her many times due to this very reason. Hence Israel will obviously enter into peace negotiations with those that accept her right to exist, such as Egypt and Jordan, and refuses to deal with those entities that call for her destruction. Such as Hamas.
Click to expand...




> Arabs and Muslims that have beought forth Israel's right to exist and challenged Israel's legitimacy from the beginning...



Why would that be?


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right to exist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> thought i would get the link out of the way so as to avoid copyright infringement for copying your copyright infringement. you do realise, i hope, that each time you quote something on a new post, especially if it is new material, that you have to acknowledge the source again. some of the mods are pretty arbitrary on their rulings so i kinda figured they could ding me but let you slide. life's like that.
> 
> ok. try to keep up. i can read quite well and we have moved on beyond that. we are at the point where israel is still asking for the PA to acknowledge israels right to exist...when the PA has already acknowledged such in 1993 in an official latter by abu ammar, i sometimes like to use the nom de guerre but if you prefer, yasser arafat.
> 
> what the hell exactly do you want me to read, Common Sense. Agrarian Justice, what's that other one, The Age of Reason...it has been a long time since i read those.
> 
> sorry, chief, you lost me. say it in your own words instead of cutting and pasting something that actually proves one of my contentions, that you guys have no clue whatsoever what israel's "right to exist" means. posting a blurb about how some of the great thinkers thought, discussed, and disagreed on the issue proves nothing...well, except that maybe that my dear friend, high gravity, has know idea what he is talking about and that his constant "you're ann idiot. everybody knows what it means." is just a cover for his own ignorance and, perhaps, actual stupidity. lolol...the boyo probably has one of the penis envy things going on too. faux tough guys like him usually do, but he'll probably deny it.
> 
> anyway, everybody from here and heading west to timbuktu has recognised israels right to exist, many implicity...but some very explicity to include the arab states, so why is israel continuing to insist on that recognition before they enter into negotiations?
> 
> (hint: i have answered that question at least a couple of times in prior posts.)
> 
> 
> 
> Donkey, if you had the ability to understand what you are reading, instead of posting all this nonsense and blabber, you would conclude that it is the Arabs and Muslims that have beought forth Israel's right to exist and challenged Israel's legitimacy from the beginning, and attacked her many times due to this very reason. Hence Israel will obviously enter into peace negotiations with those that accept her right to exist, such as Egypt and Jordan, and refuses to deal with those entities that call for her destruction. Such as Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs and Muslims that have beought forth Israel's right to exist and challenged Israel's legitimacy from the beginning...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would that be?
Click to expand...

Muslim hatred and intolerance. Where was all the outrage when the Ottoman Turks ruled for 600 years?  Where was it when Jordan and Egypt ruled West Bank and Gaza for 20 years?  Nobody even brought up or mentioned the word "Palestine". Why? it's a bogus, fictional newly invented term.  "Palestine" was divided into Jordan as the Arab state and Israel as the Jewish state. The Palestinians got their Arab state and they along with 5 other Arab countries attacked the Jewish state in order to destroy it. Things didn't work out as planned?  Tough shit.


----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter. The right to self determination exists separate from statehood.
> 
> 
> 
> A little tidbit of background information to help you out, Tinny.
> 
> The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem - CEIRPP, DPR study - Foreword, table of contents (30 June 1990)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> This validates what I have been saying all along. Particularly part I.
> 
> The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem - CEIRPP, DPR study, part I: 1917-1947 (30 June 1978)
Click to expand...


The fundamental question of the rights of the Palestinians themselves did not enter into the picture. 

One is that evidently it was not in accordance with the spirit of the pledges of independence given to the Arabs both before and after it was issued. The second is that the disposition of Palestine was determined in close consultation with a political organization whose declared aim was to settle non-Palestinians in Palestine. *Not only did this ignore the interests of the native Palestinians, but it was a deliberate violation of their rights *(see sect. IV below). The third is that through the Declaration the British Government made commitments to the Zionist Organization regarding the land of the Palestinians at a moment when it was still formally part of the Ottoman Empire.

One authority writes:

    "The most significant and incontrovertible fact is, however, that by itself the Declaration was legally impotent. For Great Britain had no sovereign rights over Palestine, it had no proprietary interest, it had no authority to dispose of the land. The Declaration was merely a statement of British intentions and no more". 

The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem - CEIRPP, DPR study, part I: 1917-1947 (30 June 1978)


----------



## stars

Israel has every right to exist, but it really needs to deal with all the facists that are infilirating Israel. I lived in Israel and you have no clue what kind of facism I saw there. It needs to stop.


----------



## High_Gravity

Roudy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes, you did miss soething. you missed answering the question.
> 
> and, it is actually more complicated than rocket science, but you wouldn't understand that.
> 
> ya know, if someone asks me what 2+2 is, i am going to say 4. you, on the other hand with all your self proclaimed intelligence, go on post after post not answering a question that you claim has a simple answer.
> 
> kinda makes you look like the stupid one, what with all your tough guy bellowing and all.
> 
> and it is your boyos blatherinng about the "right to exist." they don't even know what it means, but you do? their "right to exist" changes on their whim. lookie here...ow the hell do you think a jew would feel if tomorrow, all new jewish immigrants, as a condition of their immigration, if they had to recognise america's right to exist as a christian state and that all jews currently living here do so also.
> 
> hell, we may as well go for recognition as a right to exist as a catholic state, what with all my brown skinned brothers and sisters coming up from the south...lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah, you are such a boring dull poster and English doesn't seem to be your first language. Google up the words "Right to exist" and have someone translate them to you in your native tongue and stop wasting bandwidth with your bullshit. You are dismissed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly. He makes it sound like its a new or foreign term, or somehow vague. It's like asking "what are women's rights"? The phrase "right to exist" is pretty self explanatory.
Click to expand...


Yup, racist faggots usually do the same thing and ask questions like what are equal rights, and than ask don't civil rights have to be earned? usually these questions are just ways to be racist fucking douche bags and get a reaction out of people.


----------



## Roudy

High_Gravity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah, you are such a boring dull poster and English doesn't seem to be your first language. Google up the words "Right to exist" and have someone translate them to you in your native tongue and stop wasting bandwidth with your bullshit. You are dismissed.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. He makes it sound like its a new or foreign term, or somehow vague. It's like asking "what are women's rights"? The phrase "right to exist" is pretty self explanatory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yup, racist faggots usually do the same thing and ask questions like what are equal rights, and than ask don't civil rights have to be earned? usually these questions are just ways to be racist fucking douche bags and get a reaction out of people.
Click to expand...

Haters use different methods to justify their hatred and this is one that is often used. They frequently question the obvious, such as "did Iran's president call for the destruction of Israel?" or "did the Holocaust really happen?"


----------



## ERGO

Roudy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. He makes it sound like its a new or foreign term, or somehow vague. It's like asking "what are women's rights"? The phrase "right to exist" is pretty self explanatory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, racist faggots usually do the same thing and ask questions like what are equal rights, and than ask don't civil rights have to be earned? usually these questions are just ways to be racist fucking douche bags and get a reaction out of people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haters use different methods to justify their hatred and this is one that is often used. They frequently question the obvious, such as "did Iran's president call for the destruction of Israel?" or "did the Holocaust really happen?"
Click to expand...


You labeling someone a hater is a case of the pot calling the kettle black, you hypocrite! 
No, Ahmadinejad did not call for the destruction of Israel, but it serves Israel and it's minions to perpetuate this lie. The Holocaust of WW2 is also another lie and yes I'm a holocaust denier because I've studied it for a long time and discovered through my extensive research that the gas chambers were a lie and the mass burning of bodies was also another lie. The Zionist Jews have hijacked WW2 history to serve their agenda...The Zionist Talmudic Supremacist Jews have used the holohoax as a tool in to justify the theft of Palestine and to deflect criticisms of it's atrocious acts.


----------



## sealadaigh

Roudy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chimp can't even read.
> 
> Israel
> In 1947, the United Nations affirmed the right of an "Arab State" and a "Jewish State" to exist within Palestine. The Jewish Agency, precursor to the Israeli government, agreed to the plan, but several Arab states rejected it and attacked Israel after its May 14, 1948 declaration of independence, escalating a civil war into the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. The legal and territorial status of Israel and Palestine is still hotly disputed in the region and within the international community. In the 1950s and 1960s Arab leaders did not acknowledge that Israel had a right to exist.[13] The issue was described as the central one between Israel and the Arabs, by James Farell Thomas, the Trotskyist American novelist.[14] After the June 1967 war, Egyptian spokesman Mohammed H. el-Zayyat stated that Cairo had accepted Israel's right to exist since the signing of the Egyptian-Israeli armistice in 1949.[15] He added that this did not imply recognition of Israel.[15] In September, the Arab leaders adopted a hardline "three no's" position in the Khartoum Resolution: No peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, and no negotiations with Israel.[16] But in November, Egypt accepted UN Security Council Resolution 242, which implied acceptance of Israel's right to exist. King Hussein of Jordan also acknowledged that Israel had a right to exist at this time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right to exist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> thought i would get the link out of the way so as to avoid copyright infringement for copying your copyright infringement. you do realise, i hope, that each time you quote something on a new post, especially if it is new material, that you have to acknowledge the source again. some of the mods are pretty arbitrary on their rulings so i kinda figured they could ding me but let you slide. life's like that.
> 
> ok. try to keep up. i can read quite well and we have moved on beyond that. we are at the point where israel is still asking for the PA to acknowledge israels right to exist...when the PA has already acknowledged such in 1993 in an official latter by abu ammar, i sometimes like to use the nom de guerre but if you prefer, yasser arafat.
> 
> what the hell exactly do you want me to read, Common Sense. Agrarian Justice, what's that other one, The Age of Reason...it has been a long time since i read those.
> 
> sorry, chief, you lost me. say it in your own words instead of cutting and pasting something that actually proves one of my contentions, that you guys have no clue whatsoever what israel's "right to exist" means. posting a blurb about how some of the great thinkers thought, discussed, and disagreed on the issue proves nothing...well, except that maybe that my dear friend, high gravity, has know idea what he is talking about and that his constant "you're ann idiot. everybody knows what it means." is just a cover for his own ignorance and, perhaps, actual stupidity. lolol...the boyo probably has one of the penis envy things going on too. faux tough guys like him usually do, but he'll probably deny it.
> 
> anyway, everybody from here and heading west to timbuktu has recognised israels right to exist, many implicity...but some very explicity to include the arab states, so why is israel continuing to insist on that recognition before they enter into negotiations?
> 
> (hint: i have answered that question at least a couple of times in prior posts.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Donkey, if you had the ability to understand what you are reading, instead of posting all this nonsense and blabber, you would conclude that it is the Arabs and Muslims that have beought forth Israel's right to exist and challenged Israel's legitimacy from the beginning, and attacked her many times due to this very reason. Hence Israel will obviously enter into peace negotiations with those that accept her right to exist, such as Egypt and Jordan, and refuses to deal with those entities that call for her destruction. Such as Hamas.
Click to expand...


i understand exactly what i am reading, and the PA has recognised israels right to exist, no matter what part HAMAS plays in the PA. dfurthermore, israel doesn't recognise HAMAS' right to exist either.

besides, haniyah said he didn't oppose abbas negotiating with israel and gas said the charter, the HAMAZ charter was pretty much void re the destruction of israel.

i don't know how to maake it any more clear. in 1993 at oslo, the what was to become the PA, recognised israels right to exist in a letter of principle. HAMAS has nothing to do with it any more than the democrats have when the US negotiates with a foreign state, sure, we have a president who is a democrat but foreign powers negotiate with the united states.

also, and this brings it home despite all your diversion...from wiki...

In a 2001 video, Netanyahu, reportedly unaware he was being recorded, said: "They asked me before the election if I'd honor [the Oslo accords]... I said I would, but [that] I'm going to interpret the accords in such a way that would allow me to put an end to this galloping forward to the '67 borders. How did we do it? Nobody said what defined military zones were. Defined military zones are security zones; as far as I'm concerned, the entire Jordan Valley is a defined military zone. Go argue."[15][16] Netanyahu then explained how he conditioned his signing of the 1997 Hebron agreement on American consent that there be no withdrawals from "specified military locations", and insisted he be allowed to specify which areas constituted a "military location"such as the whole of the Jordan Valley. *"Why is that important? Because from that moment on I stopped the Oslo Accords," *Netanyahu affirmed.[17]

Oslo Accords - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

boy, and you actually wonder why jews are negatively stereotyped when the man who leads what is touted as the jewish state, israel, says something as shifty as that. that is an insult to americans, and you and i are both americans. i'm angry, but american jews should be furious because one man, benjamin netanyahu has just reinforced a very negative stereotype, a classic but unfair stereotype, of the jewish people as no account, underhanded schemers.

you're not even a little bit angry that you, as an american, have been stabbed in the back like this, especially after all the preaching about the oslo accords that you and others have been doing?


----------



## sealadaigh

High_Gravity said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are these filthy anti semites really sitting here blathering on about the words right to exist? is this fucking rocket science? did I miss something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes, you did miss soething. you missed answering the question.
> 
> and, it is actually more complicated than rocket science, but you wouldn't understand that.
> 
> ya know, if someone asks me what 2+2 is, i am going to say 4. you, on the other hand with all your self proclaimed intelligence, go on post after post not answering a question that you claim has a simple answer.
> 
> kinda makes you look like the stupid one, what with all your tough guy bellowing and all.
> 
> and it is your boyos blatherinng about the "right to exist." they don't even know what it means, but you do? their "right to exist" changes on their whim. lookie here...ow the hell do you think a jew would feel if tomorrow, all new jewish immigrants, as a condition of their immigration, if they had to recognise america's right to exist as a christian state and that all jews currently living here do so also.
> 
> hell, we may as well go for recognition as a right to exist as a catholic state, what with all my brown skinned brothers and sisters coming up from the south...lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah, you are such a boring dull poster and English doesn't seem to be your first language. Google up the words "Right to exist" and have someone translate them to you in your native tongue and stop wasting bandwidth with your bullshit. You are dismissed.
Click to expand...


dude, you keep following me around like a little kap dog whose only purpose, as far as i can tell, is to dismiss me. wouldn't be easier just not to read my posts.

as for boring and dull, you really haven't deviated much from this post in your ten prior posts. i hope i haven't broken your brain or further exacerbated your penis envy.


----------



## ERGO

Roudy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Idiot:
> 
> Right to exist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Thomas Paine used the phrase "right to exist" to refer to forms of government, arguing that representative government has a right to exist, but that hereditary government does not.[3] In 1823, Sir Walter Scott argued for the "right to exist in the Greek people".[4] (The Greeks were then revolting against Turkish rule.) According to Renan's "What is a Nation?" (1882), "A state has the right to exist when it gives proof of its strength by the sacrifices which demand the abdication of the individual."[5] Existence is not a historical right, but "a daily plebiscite, just as an individual's existence is a perpetual affirmation of life," Renan said.[5] The phrase gained enormous usage in reference to the breakup of the Ottoman Empire in 1918. "If Turkey has a right to exist  and the Powers are very prompt to assert that she has  she possesses an equally good right to defend herself against all attempts to imperil her political existence," wrote Eliakim and Robert Littell in 1903.[6] In many cases, a nation's right to exist is not questioned, and is therefore not asserted, for example in the case of India.[7]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so, we have this vague concept, but at least we are getting somewhere. sorta noticed, by the way, that the states used as examples were states in revolt.
> 
> whatever it is, abu ammar as head of the PLO acknowledged in writing that israel has a right to exist to yitzak shamir, and there was also acknowledgement at the time that the PLO would go on to become the PA. abu ammar himself said "the PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel's right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid."
> 
> so, this was done in oslo in 1993 and all israel has done is stall and stall and keep on insisting upon (?something/someone?) to recognise israel's right to exist before israel sit down to negotiate...and israel uses this stall to continue settlement building (thanks , georgephilips, for the link and area C) and palestine comes closer and closer to not existing, which, if that happens, will be genocide according to international law.
> 
> so what is the freaking problem over there. seriously, you got what you want. sometimes i almost think the palestinians agree to almost everything you ask for just to see how big of a fool israel is going to make of herself next.
> 
> dude, you better abandon that snip snip ritual cause you are gonna need as much of mr. dangle as you can get if you keep on stepping on it this way
> 
> but ta da...BOWING DEEPLY..."WOOOHOOO!!! I GOT AN ANSWER!!!"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Chimp can't even read.
> 
> Israel
> In 1947, the United Nations affirmed the right of an "Arab State" and a "Jewish State" to exist within Palestine. The Jewish Agency, precursor to the Israeli government, agreed to the plan, but several Arab states rejected it and attacked Israel after its May 14, 1948 declaration of independence, escalating a civil war into the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. The legal and territorial status of Israel and Palestine is still hotly disputed in the region and within the international community. In the 1950s and 1960s Arab leaders did not acknowledge that Israel had a right to exist.[13] The issue was described as the central one between Israel and the Arabs, by James Farell Thomas, the Trotskyist American novelist.[14] After the June 1967 war, Egyptian spokesman Mohammed H. el-Zayyat stated that Cairo had accepted Israel's right to exist since the signing of the Egyptian-Israeli armistice in 1949.[15] He added that this did not imply recognition of Israel.[15] In September, the Arab leaders adopted a hardline "three no's" position in the Khartoum Resolution: No peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, and no negotiations with Israel.[16] But in November, Egypt accepted UN Security Council Resolution 242, which implied acceptance of Israel's right to exist. King Hussein of Jordan also acknowledged that Israel had a right to exist at this time.
Click to expand...


When Ben Gurion spoke to the World Council of Poale Zion in 1938, he said, "The boundaries of Zionist aspiration include southern Lebanon, southern Syria, todays Jordan, all of Cis-Jordan, and the Sinai."
In 1947 the United Nations attempted to partition Palestine between Jews and Arabs. *The partition was unacceptable to everyone.* On the one hand, it would have given far more land to Jews than they were living on. At the time, Jewish land owners held only 6 percent of the land. On the other hand, *the Zionist movement sought to claim far more land for itself and would not settle for the partition.*
In 1948, war broke out between the Zionist forces and the Arab countries surrounding Palestine. Before the war there were about 950,000 Palestinians in the land that became Israel. The Zionist forces drove out or killed between 700,000 and 800,000 of the 950,000 Palestinians.
*In the past, Zionists have hidden the role Zionist forces played in ethnically cleansing the land of its Palestinian inhabitants,* but such denial is pretty futile by now. *Even right-wing historians like Benny Morris have heavily documented the atrocities committed by Zionist troops and their intent to drive out the native inhabitants. Morriss only problem with the operations is that they did not do a thorough enough job in expelling the Arabs.*
We have, for instance, accounts such as that of Zvi Ankori, commander of the Haganah, who said, "I saw cut off genitalia and womens crushed stomachs.  It was direct murder."
Menachem Begin, a former prime minister of Israel, expressed great pride in the terrifying effects of the Zionist operations. On the massacre of 254 men, women, and children in Deir-Yasin, Begin said, "A legend of terror spread amongst Arabs who were seized with panic at the mention of our Irgun soldiers. It was worth half a dozen battalions to the forces of Israel. Arabs throughout the country  were seized with limitless panic and started to flee for their lives. This mass flight soon developed into a maddened, uncontrollable stampede.
"Of the 800,000 Arabs who lived on the present territory of the State of Israel, only some 165,000 are still there. The political and economic significance of this development can hardly be overstated."
The 700,000 Palestinians who fled their homes in 1948 have not been able to return since. They and their children now number 4 or 5 million people. Many of them are huddled in the same refugee camps they entered when they first fled. *They are one of the largest and longest running refugee populations in the world.*
*Israel could not have become a Jewish state without forcibly expelling the majority of indigenous population. It cannot remain a Jewish state without forcibly preventing the re-entry of the expelled indigenous population and without forcibly preventing immigration of non-Jews into Israel.
*

*It cannot remain a Jewish state without denying the rights or even existence of the remaining indigenous population within Israel.
*
*Israel was created on stolen Palestinian land*

*ISRAEL IS A RACIST APARTHEID STATE!*


----------



## P F Tinmore

ERGO said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> so, we have this vague concept, but at least we are getting somewhere. sorta noticed, by the way, that the states used as examples were states in revolt.
> 
> whatever it is, abu ammar as head of the PLO acknowledged in writing that israel has a right to exist to yitzak shamir, and there was also acknowledgement at the time that the PLO would go on to become the PA. abu ammar himself said "the PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel's right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid."
> 
> so, this was done in oslo in 1993 and all israel has done is stall and stall and keep on insisting upon (?something/someone?) to recognise israel's right to exist before israel sit down to negotiate...and israel uses this stall to continue settlement building (thanks , georgephilips, for the link and area C) and palestine comes closer and closer to not existing, which, if that happens, will be genocide according to international law.
> 
> so what is the freaking problem over there. seriously, you got what you want. sometimes i almost think the palestinians agree to almost everything you ask for just to see how big of a fool israel is going to make of herself next.
> 
> dude, you better abandon that snip snip ritual cause you are gonna need as much of mr. dangle as you can get if you keep on stepping on it this way
> 
> but ta da...BOWING DEEPLY..."WOOOHOOO!!! I GOT AN ANSWER!!!"
> 
> 
> 
> Chimp can't even read.
> 
> Israel
> In 1947, the United Nations affirmed the right of an "Arab State" and a "Jewish State" to exist within Palestine. The Jewish Agency, precursor to the Israeli government, agreed to the plan, but several Arab states rejected it and attacked Israel after its May 14, 1948 declaration of independence, escalating a civil war into the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. The legal and territorial status of Israel and Palestine is still hotly disputed in the region and within the international community. In the 1950s and 1960s Arab leaders did not acknowledge that Israel had a right to exist.[13] The issue was described as the central one between Israel and the Arabs, by James Farell Thomas, the Trotskyist American novelist.[14] After the June 1967 war, Egyptian spokesman Mohammed H. el-Zayyat stated that Cairo had accepted Israel's right to exist since the signing of the Egyptian-Israeli armistice in 1949.[15] He added that this did not imply recognition of Israel.[15] In September, the Arab leaders adopted a hardline "three no's" position in the Khartoum Resolution: No peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, and no negotiations with Israel.[16] But in November, Egypt accepted UN Security Council Resolution 242, which implied acceptance of Israel's right to exist. King Hussein of Jordan also acknowledged that Israel had a right to exist at this time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When Ben Gurion spoke to the World Council of Poale Zion in 1938, he said, "The boundaries of Zionist aspiration include southern Lebanon, southern Syria, todays Jordan, all of Cis-Jordan, and the Sinai."
> In 1947 the United Nations attempted to partition Palestine between Jews and Arabs. *The partition was unacceptable to everyone.* On the one hand, it would have given far more land to Jews than they were living on. At the time, Jewish land owners held only 6 percent of the land. On the other hand, *the Zionist movement sought to claim far more land for itself and would not settle for the partition.*
> In 1948, war broke out between the Zionist forces and the Arab countries surrounding Palestine. Before the war there were about 950,000 Palestinians in the land that became Israel. The Zionist forces drove out or killed between 700,000 and 800,000 of the 950,000 Palestinians.
> *In the past, Zionists have hidden the role Zionist forces played in ethnically cleansing the land of its Palestinian inhabitants,* but such denial is pretty futile by now. *Even right-wing historians like Benny Morris have heavily documented the atrocities committed by Zionist troops and their intent to drive out the native inhabitants. Morriss only problem with the operations is that they did not do a thorough enough job in expelling the Arabs.*
> We have, for instance, accounts such as that of Zvi Ankori, commander of the Haganah, who said, "I saw cut off genitalia and womens crushed stomachs.  It was direct murder."
> Menachem Begin, a former prime minister of Israel, expressed great pride in the terrifying effects of the Zionist operations. On the massacre of 254 men, women, and children in Deir-Yasin, Begin said, "A legend of terror spread amongst Arabs who were seized with panic at the mention of our Irgun soldiers. It was worth half a dozen battalions to the forces of Israel. Arabs throughout the country  were seized with limitless panic and started to flee for their lives. This mass flight soon developed into a maddened, uncontrollable stampede.
> "Of the 800,000 Arabs who lived on the present territory of the State of Israel, only some 165,000 are still there. The political and economic significance of this development can hardly be overstated."
> The 700,000 Palestinians who fled their homes in 1948 have not been able to return since. They and their children now number 4 or 5 million people. Many of them are huddled in the same refugee camps they entered when they first fled. *They are one of the largest and longest running refugee populations in the world.*
> *Israel could not have become a Jewish state without forcibly expelling the majority of indigenous population. It cannot remain a Jewish state without forcibly preventing the re-entry of the expelled indigenous population and without forcibly preventing immigration of non-Jews into Israel.
> *
> 
> *It cannot remain a Jewish state without denying the rights or even existence of the remaining indigenous population within Israel.
> *
> *Israel was created on stolen Palestinian land*
> 
> *ISRAEL IS A RACIST APARTHEID STATE!*
Click to expand...


Israel was created and exists by crimes against another people.

Where is there a "right" to do that?


----------



## drtywhtboy

MrAlwaysRight said:


> The Palestinian government recognizes Israel's right to exist.
> 
> When will Israel recognize Palestine's right to exist?




 Really? When did that happen?


----------



## High_Gravity

drtywhtboy said:


> MrAlwaysRight said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian government recognizes Israel's right to exist.
> 
> When will Israel recognize Palestine's right to exist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really? When did that happen?
Click to expand...


It never did.


----------



## High_Gravity

reabhloideach said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes, you did miss soething. you missed answering the question.
> 
> and, it is actually more complicated than rocket science, but you wouldn't understand that.
> 
> ya know, if someone asks me what 2+2 is, i am going to say 4. you, on the other hand with all your self proclaimed intelligence, go on post after post not answering a question that you claim has a simple answer.
> 
> kinda makes you look like the stupid one, what with all your tough guy bellowing and all.
> 
> and it is your boyos blatherinng about the "right to exist." they don't even know what it means, but you do? their "right to exist" changes on their whim. lookie here...ow the hell do you think a jew would feel if tomorrow, all new jewish immigrants, as a condition of their immigration, if they had to recognise america's right to exist as a christian state and that all jews currently living here do so also.
> 
> hell, we may as well go for recognition as a right to exist as a catholic state, what with all my brown skinned brothers and sisters coming up from the south...lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah, you are such a boring dull poster and English doesn't seem to be your first language. Google up the words "Right to exist" and have someone translate them to you in your native tongue and stop wasting bandwidth with your bullshit. You are dismissed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> dude, you keep following me around like a little kap dog whose only purpose, as far as i can tell, is to dismiss me. wouldn't be easier just not to read my posts.
> 
> as for boring and dull, you really haven't deviated much from this post in your ten prior posts. i hope i haven't broken your brain or further exacerbated your penis envy.
Click to expand...


----------



## High_Gravity

ERGO said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, racist faggots usually do the same thing and ask questions like what are equal rights, and than ask don't civil rights have to be earned? usually these questions are just ways to be racist fucking douche bags and get a reaction out of people.
> 
> 
> 
> Haters use different methods to justify their hatred and this is one that is often used. They frequently question the obvious, such as "did Iran's president call for the destruction of Israel?" or "did the Holocaust really happen?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You labeling someone a hater is a case of the pot calling the kettle black, you hypocrite!
> No, Ahmadinejad did not call for the destruction of Israel, but it serves Israel and it's minions to perpetuate this lie. The Holocaust of WW2 is also another lie and yes I'm a holocaust denier because I've studied it for a long time and discovered through my extensive research that the gas chambers were a lie and the mass burning of bodies was also another lie. The Zionist Jews have hijacked WW2 history to serve their agenda...The Zionist Talmudic Supremacist Jews have used the holohoax as a tool in to justify the theft of Palestine and to deflect criticisms of it's atrocious acts.
Click to expand...


You just proved our point, thanks for being you.


----------



## P F Tinmore

High_Gravity said:


> drtywhtboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrAlwaysRight said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian government recognizes Israel's right to exist.
> 
> When will Israel recognize Palestine's right to exist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really? When did that happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It never did.
Click to expand...


Well, yes and no. Arafat recognized Israel as part if a peace proposal that was never finalized. So until there is a peace agreement the answer would be no,


----------



## ERGO

P F Tinmore said:


> ERGO said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chimp can't even read.
> 
> Israel
> In 1947, the United Nations affirmed the right of an "Arab State" and a "Jewish State" to exist within Palestine. The Jewish Agency, precursor to the Israeli government, agreed to the plan, but several Arab states rejected it and attacked Israel after its May 14, 1948 declaration of independence, escalating a civil war into the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. The legal and territorial status of Israel and Palestine is still hotly disputed in the region and within the international community. In the 1950s and 1960s Arab leaders did not acknowledge that Israel had a right to exist.[13] The issue was described as the central one between Israel and the Arabs, by James Farell Thomas, the Trotskyist American novelist.[14] After the June 1967 war, Egyptian spokesman Mohammed H. el-Zayyat stated that Cairo had accepted Israel's right to exist since the signing of the Egyptian-Israeli armistice in 1949.[15] He added that this did not imply recognition of Israel.[15] In September, the Arab leaders adopted a hardline "three no's" position in the Khartoum Resolution: No peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, and no negotiations with Israel.[16] But in November, Egypt accepted UN Security Council Resolution 242, which implied acceptance of Israel's right to exist. King Hussein of Jordan also acknowledged that Israel had a right to exist at this time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Ben Gurion spoke to the World Council of Poale Zion in 1938, he said, "The boundaries of Zionist aspiration include southern Lebanon, southern Syria, todays Jordan, all of Cis-Jordan, and the Sinai."
> In 1947 the United Nations attempted to partition Palestine between Jews and Arabs. *The partition was unacceptable to everyone.* On the one hand, it would have given far more land to Jews than they were living on. At the time, Jewish land owners held only 6 percent of the land. On the other hand, *the Zionist movement sought to claim far more land for itself and would not settle for the partition.*
> In 1948, war broke out between the Zionist forces and the Arab countries surrounding Palestine. Before the war there were about 950,000 Palestinians in the land that became Israel. The Zionist forces drove out or killed between 700,000 and 800,000 of the 950,000 Palestinians.
> *In the past, Zionists have hidden the role Zionist forces played in ethnically cleansing the land of its Palestinian inhabitants,* but such denial is pretty futile by now. *Even right-wing historians like Benny Morris have heavily documented the atrocities committed by Zionist troops and their intent to drive out the native inhabitants. Morriss only problem with the operations is that they did not do a thorough enough job in expelling the Arabs.*
> We have, for instance, accounts such as that of Zvi Ankori, commander of the Haganah, who said, "I saw cut off genitalia and womens crushed stomachs.  It was direct murder."
> Menachem Begin, a former prime minister of Israel, expressed great pride in the terrifying effects of the Zionist operations. On the massacre of 254 men, women, and children in Deir-Yasin, Begin said, "A legend of terror spread amongst Arabs who were seized with panic at the mention of our Irgun soldiers. It was worth half a dozen battalions to the forces of Israel. Arabs throughout the country  were seized with limitless panic and started to flee for their lives. This mass flight soon developed into a maddened, uncontrollable stampede.
> "Of the 800,000 Arabs who lived on the present territory of the State of Israel, only some 165,000 are still there. The political and economic significance of this development can hardly be overstated."
> The 700,000 Palestinians who fled their homes in 1948 have not been able to return since. They and their children now number 4 or 5 million people. Many of them are huddled in the same refugee camps they entered when they first fled. *They are one of the largest and longest running refugee populations in the world.*
> *Israel could not have become a Jewish state without forcibly expelling the majority of indigenous population. It cannot remain a Jewish state without forcibly preventing the re-entry of the expelled indigenous population and without forcibly preventing immigration of non-Jews into Israel.
> *
> 
> *It cannot remain a Jewish state without denying the rights or even existence of the remaining indigenous population within Israel.
> *
> *Israel was created on stolen Palestinian land*
> 
> *ISRAEL IS A RACIST APARTHEID STATE!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel was created and exists by crimes against another people.
> 
> Where is there a "right" to do that?
Click to expand...


*Tinmore, Here are some more of those crimes being committed by a psychopathic Israeli government.*
Also, I believe in the future that this tribe in Israel that is beholden to this ancient ethnocentric supremacist racial creed is going find it disconcerting as it gets it's comeuppance.

*Israel orders demolition of 8 Palestinian villages, claims need for IDF training land*
*Residents of targeted villages will be moved to the West Bank town of Yatta and its environs; state claims that most of those evacuated have permanent homes in the area. *
Defense Minister Ehud Barak has ordered the demolition of eight Palestinian villages in the South Hebron Hills because the territory is needed for Israel Defense Forces training exercises, the state told the High Court of Justice on Sunday.

Israel orders demolition of 8 Palestinian villages, claims need for IDF training land - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper

Post comment..."We just can't send our precious children to train in that empty land around Dimona because our bomb factory ... I mean, our peaceful research reactor, yeah, sure, that's it, our peaceful research reactor is leaking radiation and we don't want our precious children to get sick!" -- Nodding Yahoo


----------



## Roudy

ERGO said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, racist faggots usually do the same thing and ask questions like what are equal rights, and than ask don't civil rights have to be earned? usually these questions are just ways to be racist fucking douche bags and get a reaction out of people.
> 
> 
> 
> Haters use different methods to justify their hatred and this is one that is often used. They frequently question the obvious, such as "did Iran's president call for the destruction of Israel?" or "did the Holocaust really happen?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You labeling someone a hater is a case of the pot calling the kettle black, you hypocrite!
> No, Ahmadinejad did not call for the destruction of Israel, but it serves Israel and it's minions to perpetuate this lie. The Holocaust of WW2 is also another lie and yes I'm a holocaust denier because I've studied it for a long time and discovered through my extensive research that the gas chambers were a lie and the mass burning of bodies was also another lie. The Zionist Jews have hijacked WW2 history to serve their agenda...The Zionist Talmudic Supremacist Jews have used the holohoax as a tool in to justify the theft of Palestine and to deflect criticisms of it's atrocious acts.
Click to expand...

When did you stop taking your medication?


----------



## Roudy

High_Gravity said:


> ERGO said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haters use different methods to justify their hatred and this is one that is often used. They frequently question the obvious, such as "did Iran's president call for the destruction of Israel?" or "did the Holocaust really happen?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You labeling someone a hater is a case of the pot calling the kettle black, you hypocrite!
> No, Ahmadinejad did not call for the destruction of Israel, but it serves Israel and it's minions to perpetuate this lie. The Holocaust of WW2 is also another lie and yes I'm a holocaust denier because I've studied it for a long time and discovered through my extensive research that the gas chambers were a lie and the mass burning of bodies was also another lie. The Zionist Jews have hijacked WW2 history to serve their agenda...The Zionist Talmudic Supremacist Jews have used the holohoax as a tool in to justify the theft of Palestine and to deflect criticisms of it's atrocious acts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You just proved our point, thanks for being you.
Click to expand...

Must be foot in mouth disease.


----------



## Roudy

ERGO said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERGO said:
> 
> 
> 
> When Ben Gurion spoke to the World Council of Poale Zion in 1938, he said, "The boundaries of Zionist aspiration include southern Lebanon, southern Syria, todays Jordan, all of Cis-Jordan, and the Sinai."
> In 1947 the United Nations attempted to partition Palestine between Jews and Arabs. *The partition was unacceptable to everyone.* On the one hand, it would have given far more land to Jews than they were living on. At the time, Jewish land owners held only 6 percent of the land. On the other hand, *the Zionist movement sought to claim far more land for itself and would not settle for the partition.*
> In 1948, war broke out between the Zionist forces and the Arab countries surrounding Palestine. Before the war there were about 950,000 Palestinians in the land that became Israel. The Zionist forces drove out or killed between 700,000 and 800,000 of the 950,000 Palestinians.
> *In the past, Zionists have hidden the role Zionist forces played in ethnically cleansing the land of its Palestinian inhabitants,* but such denial is pretty futile by now. *Even right-wing historians like Benny Morris have heavily documented the atrocities committed by Zionist troops and their intent to drive out the native inhabitants. Morriss only problem with the operations is that they did not do a thorough enough job in expelling the Arabs.*
> We have, for instance, accounts such as that of Zvi Ankori, commander of the Haganah, who said, "I saw cut off genitalia and womens crushed stomachs.  It was direct murder."
> Menachem Begin, a former prime minister of Israel, expressed great pride in the terrifying effects of the Zionist operations. On the massacre of 254 men, women, and children in Deir-Yasin, Begin said, "A legend of terror spread amongst Arabs who were seized with panic at the mention of our Irgun soldiers. It was worth half a dozen battalions to the forces of Israel. Arabs throughout the country  were seized with limitless panic and started to flee for their lives. This mass flight soon developed into a maddened, uncontrollable stampede.
> "Of the 800,000 Arabs who lived on the present territory of the State of Israel, only some 165,000 are still there. The political and economic significance of this development can hardly be overstated."
> The 700,000 Palestinians who fled their homes in 1948 have not been able to return since. They and their children now number 4 or 5 million people. Many of them are huddled in the same refugee camps they entered when they first fled. *They are one of the largest and longest running refugee populations in the world.*
> *Israel could not have become a Jewish state without forcibly expelling the majority of indigenous population. It cannot remain a Jewish state without forcibly preventing the re-entry of the expelled indigenous population and without forcibly preventing immigration of non-Jews into Israel.
> *
> 
> *It cannot remain a Jewish state without denying the rights or even existence of the remaining indigenous population within Israel.
> *
> *Israel was created on stolen Palestinian land*
> 
> *ISRAEL IS A RACIST APARTHEID STATE!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was created and exists by crimes against another people.
> 
> Where is there a "right" to do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Tinmore, Here are some more of those crimes being committed by a psychopathic Israeli government.*
> Also, I believe in the future that this tribe in Israel that is beholden to this ancient ethnocentric supremacist racial creed is going find it disconcerting as it gets it's comeuppance.
> 
> *Israel orders demolition of 8 Palestinian villages, claims need for IDF training land*
> *Residents of targeted villages will be moved to the West Bank town of Yatta and its environs; state claims that most of those evacuated have permanent homes in the area. *
> Defense Minister Ehud Barak has ordered the demolition of eight Palestinian villages in the South Hebron Hills because the territory is needed for Israel Defense Forces training exercises, the state told the High Court of Justice on Sunday.
> 
> Israel orders demolition of 8 Palestinian villages, claims need for IDF training land - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper
> 
> Post comment..."We just can't send our precious children to train in that empty land around Dimona because our bomb factory ... I mean, our peaceful research reactor, yeah, sure, that's it, our peaceful research reactor is leaking radiation and we don't want our precious children to get sick!" -- Nodding Yahoo
Click to expand...

Yeah and?  These are conquered lands.  Israel can do as it pleases, including ANNEXING it entirely.


----------



## High_Gravity

Roudy said:


> ERGO said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haters use different methods to justify their hatred and this is one that is often used. They frequently question the obvious, such as "did Iran's president call for the destruction of Israel?" or "did the Holocaust really happen?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You labeling someone a hater is a case of the pot calling the kettle black, you hypocrite!
> No, Ahmadinejad did not call for the destruction of Israel, but it serves Israel and it's minions to perpetuate this lie. The Holocaust of WW2 is also another lie and yes I'm a holocaust denier because I've studied it for a long time and discovered through my extensive research that the gas chambers were a lie and the mass burning of bodies was also another lie. The Zionist Jews have hijacked WW2 history to serve their agenda...The Zionist Talmudic Supremacist Jews have used the holohoax as a tool in to justify the theft of Palestine and to deflect criticisms of it's atrocious acts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did you stop taking your medication?
Click to expand...


I don't think she ever started.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drtywhtboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really? When did that happen?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It never did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, yes and no. Arafat recognized Israel as part if a peace proposal that was never finalized. So until there is a peace agreement the answer would be no,
Click to expand...

You mean he acted like it, just one of the many many lies coming out of Arafat.


----------



## Roudy

High_Gravity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERGO said:
> 
> 
> 
> You labeling someone a hater is a case of the pot calling the kettle black, you hypocrite!
> No, Ahmadinejad did not call for the destruction of Israel, but it serves Israel and it's minions to perpetuate this lie. The Holocaust of WW2 is also another lie and yes I'm a holocaust denier because I've studied it for a long time and discovered through my extensive research that the gas chambers were a lie and the mass burning of bodies was also another lie. The Zionist Jews have hijacked WW2 history to serve their agenda...The Zionist Talmudic Supremacist Jews have used the holohoax as a tool in to justify the theft of Palestine and to deflect criticisms of it's atrocious acts.
> 
> 
> 
> When did you stop taking your medication?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think she ever started.
Click to expand...

I wonder where they get those big words from: "Zionist Talmudic Supremacist Jews have used the Holohoax to insult my beloved leader of Iran".   Certified NUTJOB.  Heh heh heh.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Yeah and?  These are conquered lands.  Israel can do as it pleases, including ANNEXING it entirely.


Not according to international law.


----------



## High_Gravity

Roudy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did you stop taking your medication?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think she ever started.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wonder where they get those big words from: "Zionist Talmudic Supremacist Jews have used the Holohoax to insult my beloved leader of Iran".   Certified NUTJOB.  Heh heh heh.
Click to expand...


Typical propoganda bullshit she spews on message boards across the internet, not an original thought in this gals head.


----------



## Roudy

High_Gravity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think she ever started.
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder where they get those big words from: "Zionist Talmudic Supremacist Jews have used the Holohoax to insult my beloved leader of Iran".   Certified NUTJOB.  Heh heh heh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Typical propoganda bullshit she spews on message boards across the internet, not an original thought in this gals head.
Click to expand...

We should be grateful at least, for the Comic relief. Thank Allah that Palestine has strong supporters throughout all the lunatic asylums and prisons across America.


----------



## docmauser1

ERGO said:


> _... In 1947 the United Nations attempted to partition Palestine between Jews and Arabs. The partition was unacceptable to everyone. On the one hand, it would have given far more land to Jews than they were living on. At the time, Jewish land owners held only 6 percent of the land. On the other hand, the Zionist movement sought to claim far more land for itself and would not settle for the partition._



Even that Walid Salem, that relies heavily on a plethora of schmucks, like Khalidi, Sanbar, Hadi, Pappe, had to admit that "Israeli and Western historical studies of the 1947 partition plan overwhelmingly demonstrate that it was accepted by the Zionist movement and was rejected by the Palestinians and the Arab countries.".
A little-known fact is that 75% of the 100% of "dear palestine" had gone to the royal hashemite arab settlers from what's now the Saudi Arabia, and the place, which the former had settled is now called Jordan.
Another interesting fact is that the area, designated for jews, was over 75% desert and had a population of 498,000 jews and 325,000 arabs, and the arab area had 807,000 arabs and 10,000 jews. The international trusteeship of Jerusalem would've had a population of 100,000 jews and 105,000 arabs.

7% of the land of the west palestine was owned by jews.
7-8% was owned by absentee landowners, arab effendi clans.
16% was owned by various churches and other foreign entities.
The remainder - 70% - was state lands, owned first by the sultan and later by the Govt of Palestine.


----------



## High_Gravity

Roudy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder where they get those big words from: "Zionist Talmudic Supremacist Jews have used the Holohoax to insult my beloved leader of Iran".   Certified NUTJOB.  Heh heh heh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical propoganda bullshit she spews on message boards across the internet, not an original thought in this gals head.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We should be grateful at least, for the Comic relief. Thank Allah that Palestine has strong supporters throughout all the lunatic asylums and prisons across America.
Click to expand...


And gay bars.


----------



## Roudy

High_Gravity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typical propoganda bullshit she spews on message boards across the internet, not an original thought in this gals head.
> 
> 
> 
> We should be grateful at least, for the Comic relief. Thank Allah that Palestine has strong supporters throughout all the lunatic asylums and prisons across America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And gay bars.
Click to expand...

"Warning: Picking up your possessions off the ground carries a strong possibility of penetration on these premises.  We are not responsible for any damages..."


----------



## ima

Roudy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> We should be grateful at least, for the Comic relief. Thank Allah that Palestine has strong supporters throughout all the lunatic asylums and prisons across America.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And gay bars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Warning: Picking up your possessions off the ground carries a strong possibility of penetration on these premises.  We are not responsible for any damages..."
Click to expand...


Roudy, grab hold of your ankles much?


----------



## Hossfly

ERGO said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, racist faggots usually do the same thing and ask questions like what are equal rights, and than ask don't civil rights have to be earned? usually these questions are just ways to be racist fucking douche bags and get a reaction out of people.
> 
> 
> 
> Haters use different methods to justify their hatred and this is one that is often used. They frequently question the obvious, such as "did Iran's president call for the destruction of Israel?" or "did the Holocaust really happen?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You labeling someone a hater is a case of the pot calling the kettle black, you hypocrite!
> No, Ahmadinejad did not call for the destruction of Israel, but it serves Israel and it's minions to perpetuate this lie. The Holocaust of WW2 is also another lie and yes I'm a holocaust denier because I've studied it for a long time and discovered through my extensive research that the gas chambers were a lie and the mass burning of bodies was also another lie. The Zionist Jews have hijacked WW2 history to serve their agenda...The Zionist Talmudic Supremacist Jews have used the holohoax as a tool in to justify the theft of Palestine and to deflect criticisms of it's atrocious acts.
Click to expand...

Another Holocaust denier! I hope you're not a history teacher. Or a language teacher of Arabic languages and dialect.


----------



## High_Gravity

Hossfly said:


> ERGO said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haters use different methods to justify their hatred and this is one that is often used. They frequently question the obvious, such as "did Iran's president call for the destruction of Israel?" or "did the Holocaust really happen?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You labeling someone a hater is a case of the pot calling the kettle black, you hypocrite!
> No, Ahmadinejad did not call for the destruction of Israel, but it serves Israel and it's minions to perpetuate this lie. The Holocaust of WW2 is also another lie and yes I'm a holocaust denier because I've studied it for a long time and discovered through my extensive research that the gas chambers were a lie and the mass burning of bodies was also another lie. The Zionist Jews have hijacked WW2 history to serve their agenda...The Zionist Talmudic Supremacist Jews have used the holohoax as a tool in to justify the theft of Palestine and to deflect criticisms of it's atrocious acts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another Holocaust denier! I hope you're not a history teacher. Or a language teacher of Arabic languages and dialect.
Click to expand...


I wouldn't worry too much, Ergo is not even qualified to shovel horse shit.


----------



## sealadaigh

drtywhtboy said:


> mralwaysright said:
> 
> 
> 
> the palestinian government recognizes israel's right to exist.
> 
> When will israel recognize palestine's right to exist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> really? When did that happen?
Click to expand...


1993.


----------



## Roudy

ima said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> And gay bars.
> 
> 
> 
> "Warning: Picking up your possessions off the ground carries a strong possibility of penetration on these premises.  We are not responsible for any damages..."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Roudy, grab hold of your ankles much?
Click to expand...

Haven't converted to Islam on all fours yet, like you have.


----------



## sealadaigh

Roudy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes, you did miss soething. you missed answering the question.
> 
> and, it is actually more complicated than rocket science, but you wouldn't understand that.
> 
> ya know, if someone asks me what 2+2 is, i am going to say 4. you, on the other hand with all your self proclaimed intelligence, go on post after post not answering a question that you claim has a simple answer.
> 
> kinda makes you look like the stupid one, what with all your tough guy bellowing and all.
> 
> and it is your boyos blatherinng about the "right to exist." they don't even know what it means, but you do? their "right to exist" changes on their whim. lookie here...ow the hell do you think a jew would feel if tomorrow, all new jewish immigrants, as a condition of their immigration, if they had to recognise america's right to exist as a christian state and that all jews currently living here do so also.
> 
> hell, we may as well go for recognition as a right to exist as a catholic state, what with all my brown skinned brothers and sisters coming up from the south...lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah, you are such a boring dull poster and English doesn't seem to be your first language. Google up the words "Right to exist" and have someone translate them to you in your native tongue and stop wasting bandwidth with your bullshit. You are dismissed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly. He makes it sound like its a new or foreign term, or somehow vague. It's like asking "what are women's rights"? The phrase "right to exist" is pretty self explanatory.
Click to expand...


yeah, right.

some of the world's greatest minds and politidal philosophers from at least the 16th century on have discussed and debated and disagreed about what exxactly constitutes a states right to exist and foolish me for having read many of them when all i really had to do was listen to you intellectual giants in such easily understandable terms..."right to exist? everybody knows what right to exist means, stupid. google it."

now exxcuse me. at one time i struggle with the applications of ring theory but a local station is showing eight hours of beevis and butthead reruns today and maybe i can find the answer to some of my questions behind the mathematics of ring theory by tuning in.


----------



## drtywhtboy

reabhloideach said:


> drtywhtboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mralwaysright said:
> 
> 
> 
> the palestinian government recognizes israel's right to exist.
> 
> When will israel recognize palestine's right to exist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> really? When did that happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1993.
Click to expand...


 I honestly didn't think they did that...and stood by it..


----------



## SAYIT

ERGO said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, racist faggots usually do the same thing and ask questions like what are equal rights, and than ask don't civil rights have to be earned? usually these questions are just ways to be racist fucking douche bags and get a reaction out of people.
> 
> 
> 
> Haters use different methods to justify their hatred and this is one that is often used. They frequently question the obvious, such as "did Iran's president call for the destruction of Israel?" or "did the Holocaust really happen?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You labeling someone a hater is a case of the pot calling the kettle black, you hypocrite!
> No, Ahmadinejad did not call for the destruction of Israel, but it serves Israel and it's minions to perpetuate this lie. The Holocaust of WW2 is also another lie and yes I'm a holocaust denier because I've studied it for a long time and discovered through my extensive research that the gas chambers were a lie and the mass burning of bodies was also another lie. The Zionist Jews have hijacked WW2 history to serve their agenda...The Zionist Talmudic Supremacist Jews have used the holohoax as a tool in to justify the theft of Palestine and to deflect criticisms of it's atrocious acts.
Click to expand...


Your extensive research is a product of "people" like you for whom hate is a far more powerful motivator than truth. The history of your Fuehrer's war against the Jews was not written by "Zionist Jews" but rather by a wide range of real historians ... something your Holocaust Denial Movement sorely lacks. The following opinion of you and your pathetic ilk is from the American Historical Society and states that you are full of crap: 
Perspectives (December 1991): Contents of the December 1991 Issue - American Historical Association

As for Ahmadinejihad, the original English language reports of his destroy Israel comments were published by none other than IRIB, the English language arm of Iran's state run media and the denials by Ahmadinejihad and others didn't appear for several months. It seems to me he and his apologists would have been much quicker to refute the IRIB translation had it been incorrect.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Roudy

reabhloideach said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah, you are such a boring dull poster and English doesn't seem to be your first language. Google up the words "Right to exist" and have someone translate them to you in your native tongue and stop wasting bandwidth with your bullshit. You are dismissed.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. He makes it sound like its a new or foreign term, or somehow vague. It's like asking "what are women's rights"? The phrase "right to exist" is pretty self explanatory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yeah, right.
> 
> some of the world's greatest minds and politidal philosophers from at least the 16th century on have discussed and debated and disagreed about what exxactly constitutes a states right to exist and foolish me for having read many of them when all i really had to do was listen to you intellectual giants in such easily understandable terms..."right to exist? everybody knows what right to exist means, stupid. google it."
> 
> now exxcuse me. at one time i struggle with the applications of ring theory but a local station is showing eight hours of beevis and butthead reruns today and maybe i can find the answer to some of my questions behind the mathematics of ring theory by tuning in.
Click to expand...

Right to exist? Gee what does it mean?  Um when Iran's Nazis call Israel "Zionist occupied terroritory" and have a stamp on their passports saying "not for use in the Zionist entity" the. That pretty much mean they refuse to acknowledge Israel's right to exist and actively seek to directly or indirectly destroy it, and have stated so. But the dumbfuck that you are, you need someone to translate for you what the phrase "right to exist" means.  Doooooy!


----------



## Roudy

SAYIT said:


> ERGO said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haters use different methods to justify their hatred and this is one that is often used. They frequently question the obvious, such as "did Iran's president call for the destruction of Israel?" or "did the Holocaust really happen?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You labeling someone a hater is a case of the pot calling the kettle black, you hypocrite!
> No, Ahmadinejad did not call for the destruction of Israel, but it serves Israel and it's minions to perpetuate this lie. The Holocaust of WW2 is also another lie and yes I'm a holocaust denier because I've studied it for a long time and discovered through my extensive research that the gas chambers were a lie and the mass burning of bodies was also another lie. The Zionist Jews have hijacked WW2 history to serve their agenda...The Zionist Talmudic Supremacist Jews have used the holohoax as a tool in to justify the theft of Palestine and to deflect criticisms of it's atrocious acts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your extensive research is a product of "people" like you for whom hate is a far more powerful motivator than truth. The history of your Fuehrer's war against the Jews was not written by "Zionist Jews" but rather by a wide range of real historians ... something your Holocaust Denial Movement sorely lacks. The following opinion of you and your pathetic ilk is from the American Historical Society and states that you are full of crap:
> Perspectives (December 1991): Contents of the December 1991 Issue - American Historical Association
> 
> As for Ahmadinejihad, the original English language reports of his destroy Israel comments were published by none other than IRIB, the English language arm of Iran's state run media and the denials by Ahmadinejihad and others didn't appear for several months. It seems to me he and his apologists would have been much quicker to refute the IRIB translation had it been incorrect.
> Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

The evidence and documentation is so overwhelming and obvious, only a lunatic would make these kinds of claims. The Nazis themselves admitted to everything and provided the meticulously kept records that Nazis were famous for during the Nuremburg trials.


----------



## Hossfly

Roudy said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERGO said:
> 
> 
> 
> You labeling someone a hater is a case of the pot calling the kettle black, you hypocrite!
> No, Ahmadinejad did not call for the destruction of Israel, but it serves Israel and it's minions to perpetuate this lie. The Holocaust of WW2 is also another lie and yes I'm a holocaust denier because I've studied it for a long time and discovered through my extensive research that the gas chambers were a lie and the mass burning of bodies was also another lie. The Zionist Jews have hijacked WW2 history to serve their agenda...The Zionist Talmudic Supremacist Jews have used the holohoax as a tool in to justify the theft of Palestine and to deflect criticisms of it's atrocious acts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your extensive research is a product of "people" like you for whom hate is a far more powerful motivator than truth. The history of your Fuehrer's war against the Jews was not written by "Zionist Jews" but rather by a wide range of real historians ... something your Holocaust Denial Movement sorely lacks. The following opinion of you and your pathetic ilk is from the American Historical Society and states that you are full of crap:
> Perspectives (December 1991): Contents of the December 1991 Issue - American Historical Association
> 
> As for Ahmadinejihad, the original English language reports of his destroy Israel comments were published by none other than IRIB, the English language arm of Iran's state run media and the denials by Ahmadinejihad and others didn't appear for several months. It seems to me he and his apologists would have been much quicker to refute the IRIB translation had it been incorrect.
> Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The evidence and documentation is so overwhelming and obvious, only a lunatic would make these kinds of claims. The Nazis themselves admitted to everything and provided the meticulously kept records that Nazis were famous for during the Nuremburg trials.
Click to expand...

All the evidence and documentation wouldn't satisfy this self proclaimed Holocaust denier. He would still say it's all a big Zionist plot.


----------



## irosie91

Hossfly said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your extensive research is a product of "people" like you for whom hate is a far more powerful motivator than truth. The history of your Fuehrer's war against the Jews was not written by "Zionist Jews" but rather by a wide range of real historians ... something your Holocaust Denial Movement sorely lacks. The following opinion of you and your pathetic ilk is from the American Historical Society and states that you are full of crap:
> Perspectives (December 1991): Contents of the December 1991 Issue - American Historical Association
> 
> As for Ahmadinejihad, the original English language reports of his destroy Israel comments were published by none other than IRIB, the English language arm of Iran's state run media and the denials by Ahmadinejihad and others didn't appear for several months. It seems to me he and his apologists would have been much quicker to refute the IRIB translation had it been incorrect.
> Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> The evidence and documentation is so overwhelming and obvious, only a lunatic would make these kinds of claims. The Nazis themselves admitted to everything and provided the meticulously kept records that Nazis were famous for during the Nuremburg trials.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All the evidence and documentation wouldn't satisfy this self proclaimed Holocaust denier. He would still say it's all a big Zionist plot.
Click to expand...



Folks    I am old---well old enough to remember  1967     I was young then------and just finished with college  "finals"    when   "CONFLICT IN THE MIDDLE EAST"    filled the TV screen      --end of May 1967      The UN proceedings were televised and somehow I had the patience to watch that dull proceeding.     For more than a week---speech after speech about how egypt would destroy the "ZIONIST ENTITY"    There were interviews of arab diplomate inbetween     and more  "DESTRUCTION OF THE ZIONIST ENTITY" ----the most emphatic  "DESTRUCTION OF THE ZIONIST ENTITY"  came from  the big man of the UNITED ARAB REPUBLIC  (UAR)  himself-----Gamal abdul nasser. -------Then June 5----WAR!!!!!!!       the reports were dramatic       ---from Egypt the report was that Egypt shot down more planes than Israel ever had    etc etc      Then it was over.     Nasser and his diplomats were dazed-----the ambassadors in the UN looked NUMB.  --------guess what happened then    Suddenly it turned out that no one ever wanted war with Israel and the dramatic threats were described as    "ARABIC HYPERBOLE"     That's the anwer folks-------"hyperbole"     Achmadinejad spoke of wiping the zionist entity off the map -------that's  "FARSI HYPERBOLE"           and  "mein kampf"   is    "GERMAN HYPERBOLE"       You may imagine that Osama orchestrated destruction of the World Trade Center----but you are wrong------that was simply  another example of  "ARABIC HYPERBOLE"      The bombing of a bus in Bulgaria was-----"JIHAD HYPERBOLE"    ---------see?   none of this stuff really happened.    For a review of the  HYPERBOLIC CURVE----see your high school geometry text book


----------



## sealadaigh

drtywhtboy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drtywhtboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> really? When did that happen?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1993.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I honestly didn't think they did that...and stood by it..
Click to expand...


well, it is a bit wrinkled legally and politically, but yes. here is the main portion of a letter from arafat, head of the PLO which was  to become the PA. it was writter to PM rabin..

"The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security.'


"The PLO accepts United Nations Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338.'


"The PLO commits itself to the Middle East peace process, and to a peaceful resolution of the conflict between the two sides and declares that all outstanding issues relating to permanent status will be resolved through negotiations.'


"The PLO considers that the signing of the Declaration of Principles constitutes a historic event, inaugurating a new epoch of peaceful coexistence, free from violence and all other acts which endanger peace and stability. Accordingly, the PLO renounces the use of terrorism and other acts of violence and will assume responsibility over all PLO elements and personnel in order to assure their compliance, prevent violations and discipline violators'


"In view of the promise of a new era and the signing of the Declaration of Principles and based on Palestinian acceptance of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, the PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel's right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid. Consequently, the PLO undertakes to submit to the Palestinian National Council for formal approval the necessary changes in regard to the Palestinian Covenant.'

Israel-PLO Recognition

the PA has never rescinded this letter or otherwise considered it null and void.


----------



## drtywhtboy

The signing of the Oslo Accords should have brought peace to the Middle East. Israel gave up its territory in the Gaza Strip, and the West Bank. The Palestinians went in there
and destroyed the infrastructure, the greenhouses, the farms, everything. The also kept sending katusha missiles into Israel from the West Bank and Gaza. 

 Arafat may have signed that treaty in Washington, but as soon as he got off the plane where ever he landed, he started the blood shed again...Why?


----------



## AgentBond007

Roudy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, bog off with all buckshot-ridden posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boy, you sure get pissy when someone steps in to defend the honour and integrity of american sailors.
> 
> look, no offense, but the way american jews have handled the USS Liberty incident is a lesson in sheer stupidity and unrivaled arrogance. you have taken a tragic incident (and i believe a deliberate attack on a vessel that was known to be an american naval vessel) that could have faded into the background and jews have turned it into a cause celebre.
> 
> my god, most americans had never even noticed the attack on the liberty at the time. i mean, vietnam was the story. we were escalating big time in '66, '67 and '68. people were protesting, the streets were a riot, the democratic convention was shutting down... and people were also committing the unforgiveable sin of ignoring the jews, so they had to make some sort of huge deal about "it was a mistaken identity." it was a blip on the radar screen off the american public.
> 
> jews fought against a full congressional investigation, and memorials, and on and on writing books and making claims when it would have faded into the background years ago if left alone. the first time i suspected something was amiss about the whole incident is because nobody fights that hard unless they have something to hide.
> 
> there is probably not one single objective person in the world who doesn't think the israelis knew it was an american ship during the attack. it would have been more believable if the israeli government would have actually claimed that the pilots were blind and were part of an experimental test program than the ridiculous story they weaved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews fought against congressional investigations?  Is this why it was ine of the most investigated incidents in history?  But hey, let's not let Jew hating pigs like you stop repeating the same old tired lies.
> 
> Does raeabhoildeach mean "I shoved a whiskey bottle up my Muslim-fucked ass" in Irish?
Click to expand...

You're getting warm.


----------



## AgentBond007

drtywhtboy said:


> The signing of the Oslo Accords should have brought peace to the Middle East. Israel gave up its territory in the Gaza Strip, and the West Bank. The Palestinians went in there
> and destroyed the infrastructure, the greenhouses, the farms, everything. The also kept sending katusha missiles into Israel from the West Bank and Gaza.
> 
> Arafat may have signed that treaty in Washington, but as soon as he got off the plane where ever he landed, he started the blood shed again...Why?


Money.


----------



## sealadaigh

drtywhtboy said:


> The signing of the Oslo Accords should have brought peace to the Middle East. Israel gave up its territory in the Gaza Strip, and the West Bank. The Palestinians went in there
> and destroyed the infrastructure, the greenhouses, the farms, everything. The also kept sending katusha missiles into Israel from the West Bank and Gaza.
> 
> Arafat may have signed that treaty in Washington, but as soon as he got off the plane where ever he landed, he started the blood shed again...Why?



your language portrays your bigotry. israel has no land in the gaza or the west bank, and any rocket fire has been preceded by more israeli expansion, and it ight be wise to identify who exactly is firing the rockets. if joe scmuck from point roberts starts lobbing rockets into surrey, british colubia, do you think canada would be justified in bombong and shelling the hell out of seattle?

the destruction of infrastructure is largely myth and propaganda. the so called infrastructure was meant to accomadate a small group of israeli settlers and was of no practical use to the people of gaza. not only that, it was a reminder of a brutal occupation...kinda like when that terrorist group, the sons of liberty, toppled the statue of king george III in NYC. huh?

if israel wants peace and secure borders, they can have it. they could have had it a long tie ago. i cannot belieeve, in this day in age, people like you believe israel wants peace.. israel will not negotiaate any peace. they want to steal land and make any future palestinian state impossible.


----------



## ima

Roudy said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Warning: Picking up your possessions off the ground carries a strong possibility of penetration on these premises.  We are not responsible for any damages..."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy, grab hold of your ankles much?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haven't converted to Islam on all fours yet, like you have.
Click to expand...


I'm an agnostic: no god has yet been proven, but if some real evidence comes up, I'm open to changing my mind. The only logical way to go.


----------



## P F Tinmore

drtywhtboy said:


> The signing of the Oslo Accords should have brought peace to the Middle East. Israel gave up its territory in the Gaza Strip, and the West Bank. The Palestinians went in there
> and destroyed the infrastructure, the greenhouses, the farms, everything. The also kept sending katusha missiles into Israel from the West Bank and Gaza.
> 
> Arafat may have signed that treaty in Washington, but as soon as he got off the plane where ever he landed, he started the blood shed again...Why?



Oslo is dead. It was stillborn. Neither side was serious and none if that stuff means anything.

About that greenhouse propaganda crap out of Israel:



> JERUSALEM  After months of intense negotiations recently culminating in a deal allowing for the transfer of Gazas high-tech Jewish greenhouses to the Palestinians, several former Jewish residents who briefly returned to their farms told WND they were shocked to find most of their produce has died because Israel turned off the water in the area.
> 
> I couldnt believe it. Almost all of my crops are dead, and the rest is dying, Anita Tucker, one of the pioneer farmers of Jewish Gaza told WND. I hope the Palestinians arent expecting fresh produce.  A fortune in crops is now all gone.
> 
> Israel shuts off water, dries Gaza greenhouses


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> _Oslo is dead. It was stillborn. Neither side was serious and none if that stuff means anything._


Drivel. The israeli leftoid cabal, that started the mess, was so positive and sure, wild eyes and kumbaya all-round, the realists and the right were muzzled, that leftoid craze looked like a goddamn satanist convention. Dear Yassir was very instrumental in showing the leftists where they and their theories belong, of course.


P F Tinmore said:


> _About that greenhouse propaganda crap out of Israel: JERUSALEM  After months of intense negotiations recently culminating in a deal allowing for the transfer of Gazas high-tech Jewish greenhouses to the Palestinians, several former Jewish residents who briefly returned to their farms told WND they were shocked to find most of their produce has died because Israel turned off the water in the area._


So, gazabadians stole waterpumps first and were planning on stealing water too. Cool.


----------



## irosie91

AgentBond007 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> boy, you sure get pissy when someone steps in to defend the honour and integrity of american sailors.
> 
> look, no offense, but the way american jews have handled the USS Liberty incident is a lesson in sheer stupidity and unrivaled arrogance. you have taken a tragic incident (and i believe a deliberate attack on a vessel that was known to be an american naval vessel) that could have faded into the background and jews have turned it into a cause celebre.
> 
> my god, most americans had never even noticed the attack on the liberty at the time. i mean, vietnam was the story. we were escalating big time in '66, '67 and '68. people were protesting, the streets were a riot, the democratic convention was shutting down... and people were also committing the unforgiveable sin of ignoring the jews, so they had to make some sort of huge deal about "it was a mistaken identity." it was a blip on the radar screen
> off the american public.
> jews fought against a full congressional investigation, and memorials, and on and on writing books and making claims when it would have faded into the background years ago if left
> alone. the first time i suspected something was amiss about the whole incident is because nobody fights that hard unless they have something to hide.
> 
> there is probably not one single objective person in the world who doesn't think the israelis knew it was an american ship during the attack. it would have been more believable if the israeli government would have actually claimed that the pilots were blind and were part of an experimental test program than the ridiculous story they weaved.[/QUOT
> Jews fought against congressional investigations?  Is this why it was ine of the most investigated incidents in history?  But hey, let's not let Jew hating pigs like you stop repeating the same old tired lies.
> 
> Does raeabhoildeach mean "I shoved a whiskey bottle up my Muslim-fucked ass" in Irish?
> 
> 
> 
> You're getting warm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the record----jews never objected to the full congressional investigation of the attack on the  USS LIBERTY   which DID take place and was CONCLUDED.
> 
> I am a jew----I served in the Navy and I certainly NOTICED that the USS Liberty was attacked
> 
> as far as taking this episode of  friendly fire as a  "cause celebre' "     the only people who did that were a few navy folk and garden variety civilian racists and hysterics.    For the record----the Navy folk who openly objected to the findings of the  Navy investigation and the Congressional investigation are in violation of  Navy law but I am not at all surprised----lots of military stuff gets  USED for political purposes       I was in the midst of the AGENT ORANGE SCANDAL     ----well ---actually on the  periphery of the investigation-----but will not comment -----about the actual issues     I will comment that lots of sociopaths JUMPED ON THAT BANDWAGON TOO  -----individuals,  "politicians"  or wannabees     and simply folks looking for  "FAME"
> 
> the USS LIBERTY became a  BANDWAGON issue for people to use against Israel-------since that time LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of sailors have died because of military error------including errors that took place------during peace and in domestic waters
Click to expand...


----------



## High_Gravity

This whole thread topic reeks of anti semitism and desperation. Israel is here to stay, deal with it.


----------



## Roudy

ima said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy, grab hold of your ankles much?
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't converted to Islam on all fours yet, like you have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm an agnostic: no god has yet been proven, but if some real evidence comes up, I'm open to changing my mind. The only logical way to go.
Click to expand...

What you say you are is quite different that what you actually are.


----------



## Roudy

irosie91 said:


> AgentBond007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're getting warm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the record----jews never objected to the full congressional investigation of the attack on the  USS LIBERTY   which DID take place and was CONCLUDED.
> 
> I am a jew----I served in the Navy and I certainly NOTICED that the USS Liberty was attacked
> 
> as far as taking this episode of  friendly fire as a  "cause celebre' "     the only people who did that were a few navy folk and garden variety civilian racists and hysterics.    For the record----the Navy folk who openly objected to the findings of the  Navy investigation and the Congressional investigation are in violation of  Navy law but I am not at all surprised----lots of military stuff gets  USED for political purposes       I was in the midst of the AGENT ORANGE SCANDAL     ----well ---actually on the  periphery of the investigation-----but will not comment -----about the actual issues     I will comment that lots of sociopaths JUMPED ON THAT BANDWAGON TOO  -----individuals,  "politicians"  or wannabees     and simply folks looking for  "FAME"
> 
> the USS LIBERTY became a  BANDWAGON issue for people to use against Israel-------since that time LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of sailors have died because of military error------including errors that took place------during peace and in domestic waters
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Irose, the lunatics that claim Israel intentionally attacked the USS Liberty are the same people that claim that Mossad did 9-11, deny the Holocaust, side with Iran's IslamoNazis, etc.... it all comes in one nice all inclusive package for the mentally ill.
Click to expand...


----------



## High_Gravity

What I notice about the faggot holocaust deniers is one day they say the holocaust never happened, than the next day they are saying Hitler didn't kill enough Jews, which is it liars?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AgentBond007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the record----jews never objected to the full congressional investigation of the attack on the  USS LIBERTY   which DID take place and was CONCLUDED.
> 
> I am a jew----I served in the Navy and I certainly NOTICED that the USS Liberty was attacked
> 
> as far as taking this episode of  friendly fire as a  "cause celebre' "     the only people who did that were a few navy folk and garden variety civilian racists and hysterics.    For the record----the Navy folk who openly objected to the findings of the  Navy investigation and the Congressional investigation are in violation of  Navy law but I am not at all surprised----lots of military stuff gets  USED for political purposes       I was in the midst of the AGENT ORANGE SCANDAL     ----well ---actually on the  periphery of the investigation-----but will not comment -----about the actual issues     I will comment that lots of sociopaths JUMPED ON THAT BANDWAGON TOO  -----individuals,  "politicians"  or wannabees     and simply folks looking for  "FAME"
> 
> the USS LIBERTY became a  BANDWAGON issue for people to use against Israel-------since that time LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of sailors have died because of military error------including errors that took place------during peace and in domestic waters
> 
> 
> 
> Irose, the lunatics that claim Israel intentionally attacked the USS Liberty are the same people that claim that Mossad did 9-11, deny the Holocaust, side with Iran's IslamoNazis, etc.... it all comes in one nice all inclusive package for the mentally ill.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure, a bright, sunny day, a us flag the size of a garage, USS Liberyy painted on the sides, a profile that was unique in the world.
> 
> Of course it was a case of mistaken identity.
Click to expand...


----------



## Roudy

reabhloideach said:


> drtywhtboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The signing of the Oslo Accords should have brought peace to the Middle East. Israel gave up its territory in the Gaza Strip, and the West Bank. The Palestinians went in there
> and destroyed the infrastructure, the greenhouses, the farms, everything. The also kept sending katusha missiles into Israel from the West Bank and Gaza.
> 
> Arafat may have signed that treaty in Washington, but as soon as he got off the plane where ever he landed, he started the blood shed again...Why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> your language portrays your bigotry. israel has no land in the gaza or the west bank, and any rocket fire has been preceded by more israeli expansion, and it ight be wise to identify who exactly is firing the rockets. if joe scmuck from point roberts starts lobbing rockets into surrey, british colubia, do you think canada would be justified in bombong and shelling the hell out of seattle?
> 
> the destruction of infrastructure is largely myth and propaganda. the so called infrastructure was meant to accomadate a small group of israeli settlers and was of no practical use to the people of gaza. not only that, it was a reminder of a brutal occupation...kinda like when that terrorist group, the sons of liberty, toppled the statue of king george III in NYC. huh?
> 
> if israel wants peace and secure borders, they can have it. they could have had it a long tie ago. i cannot belieeve, in this day in age, people like you believe israel wants peace.. israel will not negotiaate any peace. they want to steal land and make any future palestinian state impossible.
Click to expand...

If you would have removed your head from your anti semitic ass you would tell the truth, which is, the rocket attacks from Gaza started when Israel totally evacuated Gaza.


----------



## Roudy

High_Gravity said:


> What I notice about the faggot holocaust deniers is one day they say the holocaust never happened, than the next day they are saying Hitler didn't kill enough Jews, which is it liars?


It's similar to the Bin Laden syndrome. On one hand they celebrated Osama bin Laden's actions by dancing, eating sweets, and burning American flags, calling Bin Laden a hero and holy Islamic warrior, while 3000 Americans died in the rubble.  On the other hand they will tell you it wasn't even Al Queda, the Jews did 9-11 or it was "an inside job".


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Irose, the lunatics that claim Israel intentionally attacked the USS Liberty are the same people that claim that Mossad did 9-11, deny the Holocaust, side with Iran's IslamoNazis, etc.... it all comes in one nice all inclusive package for the mentally ill.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, a bright, sunny day, a us flag the size of a garage, USS Liberyy painted on the sides, a profile that was unique in the world.
> 
> Of course it was a case of mistaken identity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's what seven independent govt investigations concluded.
Click to expand...


----------



## High_Gravity

Roudy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I notice about the faggot holocaust deniers is one day they say the holocaust never happened, than the next day they are saying Hitler didn't kill enough Jews, which is it liars?
> 
> 
> 
> It's similar to the Bin Laden syndrome. On one hand they celebrated Osama bin Laden's actions by dancing, eating sweets, and burning American flags, calling Bin Laden a hero and holy Islamic warrior, while 3000 Americans died in the rubble.  On the other hand they will tell you it was even Al Queda, the Jews did 9-11 or it was "an inside job".
Click to expand...


Yup you nailed it, those assholes do the same thing. Another thing those assholes do is criticize the US for killing Bin Laden and calling him a hero and a martyr than come back the next day and deny he is even dead.


----------



## irosie91

a flag?       anyone can fly a flag          not long ago----my son was in the navy-----he lost a mate on another submarine--------the ship hit an underground mountain--------a gross error------there are endless instruments on board to visualize those things.       I was in the navy during peace time-------we lost a few kids during a game-----a little parachute demonstration circus------on a clear day--------I will not discuss the stupdity that caused the accidents to happen--------because I am not supposed to do that-----the jerks from the Liberty who spend their time contradicting the reports of the NAVY and the USA  are comitting a crime.   Military accidents are STARTLINGLY  common happenstances ----even in peacetime-----in war time-----the numbers lost to friendly fire is staggering.     Getting back to the navy----my own father never got over the fact that a kid fell overboard on his watch during world war II---------someone made a stupid mistake involving-------KNOTS ON ROPES----or something like that -----I never quite understood it 


now the liberty again      It is often claimed by jihadists that Israel tried to SINK that ship------idiot lie-----Israel would have had no problem sinking it   -------sorry folks-----I remember the incident well-------I listened to the virtually IMMEDIATE RADIO BROADCASTS and live accounts of the rescue        I am relying on memory now-----the ENTIRE "ATTACK"   lasted something like  25 minutes and there was nothing countering it at all-------it certainly could have GONE ON,  completely unchallenged,    if anyone wanted it to continue


----------



## SAYIT

Hossfly said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your extensive research is a product of "people" like you for whom hate is a far more powerful motivator than truth. The history of your Fuehrer's war against the Jews was not written by "Zionist Jews" but rather by a wide range of real historians ... something your Holocaust Denial Movement sorely lacks. The following opinion of you and your pathetic ilk is from the American Historical Society and states that you are full of crap:
> Perspectives (December 1991): Contents of the December 1991 Issue - American Historical Association
> 
> As for Ahmadinejihad, the original English language reports of his destroy Israel comments were published by none other than IRIB, the English language arm of Iran's state run media and the denials by Ahmadinejihad and others didn't appear for several months. It seems to me he and his apologists would have been much quicker to refute the IRIB translation had it been incorrect.
> Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> The evidence and documentation is so overwhelming and obvious, only a lunatic would make these kinds of claims. The Nazis themselves admitted to everything and provided the meticulously kept records that Nazis were famous for during the Nuremburg trials.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All the evidence and documentation wouldn't satisfy this self proclaimed Holocaust denier. He would still say it's all a big Zionist plot.
Click to expand...


That dynamic is not unique to ERGO ... it runs through all Holocaust deniers. It must be part of their handbook. Lots of circular argumentation and when the truth is too obvious to deny they run and hide for a while and return as if they never saw a word of the discourse.


----------



## patrickcaturday

irosie91 said:


> AgentBond007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the record----jews never objected to the full congressional investigation of the attack on the  USS LIBERTY   which DID take place and was CONCLUDED.
> 
> I am a jew----I served in the Navy and I certainly NOTICED that the USS Liberty was attacked
> 
> as far as taking this episode of  friendly fire as a  "cause celebre' "     the only people who did that were a few navy folk and garden variety civilian racists and hysterics.    For the record----the Navy folk who openly objected to the findings of the  Navy investigation and the Congressional investigation are in violation of  Navy law but I am not at all surprised----lots of military stuff gets  USED for political purposes       I was in the midst of the AGENT ORANGE SCANDAL     ----well ---actually on the  periphery of the investigation-----but will not comment -----about the actual issues     I will comment that lots of sociopaths JUMPED ON THAT BANDWAGON TOO  -----individuals,  "politicians"  or wannabees     and simply folks looking for  "FAME"
> 
> the USS LIBERTY became a  BANDWAGON issue for people to use against Israel-------since that time LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of sailors have died because of military error------including errors that took place------during peace and in domestic waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *" For the record " ---- you are lying.  The US liberty Veterans association offered a $ 10,000 reward for anyone who can prove that there has been a Congressional Investigation of the US Liberty Attack  You will find their adress in the links that I post below, if you are not lying I suggest that you contact them so you can claim your reward !!!
> 
> Here are three quotes from articles and links to the articles which prove that you are lying;*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> $10,000 challenge
> The Liberty Veterans Association offers a $10,000 reward to anyone who can establish the truth of A. Jay Cristol's claim: 1
> "After ten official US investigations (including five congressional investigations), there was never any evidence that the attack was made with knowledge that the target was a US ship."
> 
> The LVA has disputed the truth of this statement for years. We know it is untrue. The claim that there have been any official Congressional investigations into the culpability for the Israeli attack on USS Liberty is patently false. There have been NO official Congressional investigations on this subject. We believe that the best way to prove that the above statement is untrue is to offer a reward to anyone (including Mr. Cristol) who can prove that it is true.
> 
> Address responses to challenge@ussliberty.com
> 
> The challenge has been offered since March 1, 2004, with no takers.
> 
> 
> 
> USS Liberty $10,000 challenge
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chief among the Liberty deniers is Florida bankruptcy magistrate Ahron Jay Cristol, who wrote a book defending the Israeli position. According to Cristol, 13 investigations have all found Israel to be without blame&#8212;a claim he repeats at every opportunity. It is totally false. Liberty survivors have for more than a year offered a $10,000 reward to anyone who can prove Cristol&#8217;s assertion. In fact, there has never been a single congressional investigation (see &#8220;Cristol Claim of 13 Investigations Into Israel&#8217;s Attack on USS Liberty a Travesty,&#8221; by Terence O&#8217;Keefe, December 2003 Washington Report, p. 14). Yet the author continues to make the false allegation, and no one has claimed the reward.
> 
> 
> 
> Washington Report on Middle East Affairs | Special Report: USS Liberty: 38 Years and Counting
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahron Jay Cristol, the author of dense and nearly unreadable screed published in 2002 as The Liberty Incident, persists in repeating at every opportunity the false report that the LibertyThe Liberty Incident, now out of print, was first published as a doctoral thesis and eventually in hard and soft cover by Brassey&#8217;s. Cristol&#8217;s web site proclaims in its second paragraph: attack has been repeatedly investigated and found to be a tragic accident.
> 
> &#8220;After ten official US investigations (including five congressional investigations), there was never any evidence that the attack was made with knowledge that the target was a US ship. There is substantial evidence the attack was a tragic mistake caused by blunders of both the US and Israel. Eight US presidents, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush (41), Clinton, and Bush (43), have each accepted the conclusion that the attack was a tragic case of mistaken identity.&#8221;
> 
> We have found no evidence that any of those assertions are true. Mr. Cristol has not responded to our repeated requests for proof or documentation of those claims. Moreover, the Libertywww.ussliberty.org/challenge.htm. No one has ever applied for the reward. There has never been a Congressional investigation. We are unaware that any American president has accepted the position that the attack was a tragic accident. The only American government investigation of any kind was the U.S.Navy Court of Inquiry in 1967. That inquiry examined only the performance of the crew and the adequacy of communications and avoided entirely the question of whether the attack was deliberate, accepting &#8220;at face value&#8221; the Israeli claim that the attack was an accident. That inquiry has been dismissed by its own legal counsel, legal counsel to the convening authority and numerous other key figures as fraudulent. Yet Mr. Cristol persists in his false reports. Unfortunately, the big lie has been repeated so often that it is widely repeated even by Members of Congress as if it were established fact. Moreover, we have a letter from the Librarian of Congress verifying that there has never been such an investigation which is reproduced below. Veterans Association has long offered a $10,000 reward to anyone who can show that these statements are true. See
> 
> We have repeatedly requested that Mr. Cristol explain, justify, remove or stop repeating his false claim. He declines to do so or to respond &#8212; although his failure to keep the book in print is a statement in itself.
> 
> Meanwhile, Cristol ignores our specific request for comment.
> 
> The Library of Congress confirms that Congress has never held hearings or launched an investigation into the attack on USS Liberty. Mr. Cristol&#8217;s account is false. We have repeatedly asked him to remove his false report from his web site. He declines to reply or to correct the false claim despite frequent requests for him to do so.
> 
> The Library of Congress reports: &#8220;After checking numerous resources, including the CIS (Congressional Information Service) Indexes to Congressional Hearings (both published and unpublished), and the Public Documents Masterfile, I could find no evidence that the Congress ever held hearings or launched an investigation into the June 8, 1967 incident with the USS Liberty.&#8221; ECH, Reference Librarian, Library of Congress
> 
> 
> 
> &#8220;The Big Lie&#8221; Ahron Jay Cristol, A Quisling for Israel | USS Liberty Cover Up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *After reading these articles in full you may wish to apologize to the board for the misinformation and lies that you have spread.*
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## georgephillip

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, a bright, sunny day, a us flag the size of a garage, USS Liberyy painted on the sides, a profile that was unique in the world.
> 
> Of course it was a case of mistaken identity.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what seven independent govt investigations concluded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Got any proof of those "seven independent investigations?"*
> 
> The deliberate attack on _Liberty_ remains the only incident of its kind never investigated by the entire US Congress.
> 
> "The U.S. Naval Court of Inquiry record contains testimony by fourteen Liberty crew members and five subject matter experts; exhibits of attack damage photographs, various messages and memorandums; and findings of fact. The testimony record reveals 'a shallow investigation, plagued by myriad disagreements between the captain and his crew...'"
> 
> "The Joint Chief of Staff's Report contains findings of fact related only to communication system failures associated with the Liberty attack. It was not concerned with matters of culpability, nor does it contain statements thereof.
> 
> The CIA Memorandums consist of two documents: one dated June 13, 1967, and the other dated June 21, 1967. The June 13 memorandum is an 'account of circumstances of the attack ... compiled from all available sources.'
> 
> "The June 21 memorandum is a point-by-point analysis of Israeli inquiry findings of fact.
> 
> "It concludes: 'The attack was not made in malice toward the U.S. and was by mistake, but the failure of the IDF Headquarters and the attacking aircraft to identify the Liberty and the subsequent attack by torpedo boats were both incongruous and indicative of gross negligence."
> 
> "The Clark Clifford Report consists of a review of 'all available information on the subject' and 'deals with the question of Israeli culpability', according to its transmittal memorandum. The report concludes: '*The unprovoked attack on the Liberty constitutes a flagrant act of gross negligence* for which the *Israeli Government should be held completely responsible*, and the *Israeli military personnel involved should be punished*.'"
> 
> USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


----------



## Roudy

MrAlwaysRight said:


> The Palestinian government recognizes Israel's right to exist.
> 
> When will Israel recognize Palestine's right to exist?


Mr fucking ignorant doesn't know that Hamas is a terrorist organization that rules over Gaza, who's Charter and it's leaders call for the destruction of Israel every day.


----------



## SAYIT

reabhloideach said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> _you sure are crass and flippant regarding the deaths of 34 american sailors. ... _
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, bog off with all buckshot-ridden posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> boy, you sure get pissy when someone steps in to defend the honour and integrity of american sailors.
> 
> look, no offense, but the way american jews have handled the USS Liberty incident is a lesson in sheer stupidity and unrivaled arrogance. you have taken a tragic incident (and i believe a deliberate attack on a vessel that was known to be an american naval vessel) that could have faded into the background and jews have turned it into a cause celebre.
> 
> my god, most americans had never even noticed the attack on the liberty at the time. i mean, vietnam was the story. we were escalating big time in '66, '67 and '68. people were protesting, the streets were a riot, the democratic convention was shutting down... and people were also committing the unforgiveable sin of ignoring the jews, so they had to make some sort of huge deal about "it was a mistaken identity." it was a blip on the radar screen off the american public.
> 
> the first time i suspected something was amiss about the whole incident is because nobody fights that hard unless they have something to hide.
> 
> there is probably not one single objective person in the world who doesn't think the israelis knew it was an american ship during the attack. it would have been more believable if the israeli government would have actually claimed that the pilots were blind and were part of an experimental test program than the ridiculous story they weaved.
Click to expand...



Really? 
You have soomething which supports your claim that Jews (all Jews and only Jews) "fought against a full congressional investigation, and memorials, and on and on"?

Do you also have proof that Jews (and only Jews) have since 1967 been "writing books and making claims when it would have faded into the background years ago if left alone."

Frankly, these outrageous claims have long been how you and the anti-Israel/anti-Jew cabal demonstrate your mindless hate for Jooooos, Bubba.


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what seven independent govt investigations concluded.
> 
> 
> 
> *Got any proof of those "seven independent investigations?"*
> 
> The deliberate attack on _Liberty_ remains the only incident of its kind never investigated by the entire US Congress.
> 
> "The U.S. Naval Court of Inquiry record contains testimony by fourteen Liberty crew members and five subject matter experts; exhibits of attack damage photographs, various messages and memorandums; and findings of fact. The testimony record reveals 'a shallow investigation, plagued by myriad disagreements between the captain and his crew...'"
> 
> "The Joint Chief of Staff's Report contains findings of fact related only to communication system failures associated with the Liberty attack. It was not concerned with matters of culpability, nor does it contain statements thereof.
> 
> The CIA Memorandums consist of two documents: one dated June 13, 1967, and the other dated June 21, 1967. The June 13 memorandum is an 'account of circumstances of the attack ... compiled from all available sources.'
> 
> "The June 21 memorandum is a point-by-point analysis of Israeli inquiry findings of fact.
> 
> "It concludes: 'The attack was not made in malice toward the U.S. and was by mistake, but the failure of the IDF Headquarters and the attacking aircraft to identify the Liberty and the subsequent attack by torpedo boats were both incongruous and indicative of gross negligence."
> 
> "The Clark Clifford Report consists of a review of 'all available information on the subject' and 'deals with the question of Israeli culpability', according to its transmittal memorandum. The report concludes: '*The unprovoked attack on the Liberty constitutes a flagrant act of gross negligence* for which the *Israeli Government should be held completely responsible*, and the *Israeli military personnel involved should be punished*.'"
> 
> USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Put on some glasses, you fucking IslamoNazi piece of shit. Here are 7 SEVEN govt investigations from your link, and NOT ONE found that Israel intentionally attacked the boat.
> 
> U.S. Naval Court of Inquiry of June 1967
> Joint Chief of Staff's Report of June 1967.
> CIA Intelligence Memorandums of June 1967
> Clark Clifford Report of July 1967
> Senate Foreign Relations Committee Testimony during hearings of the 1967 Foreign Aid Authorization bill, July 1967
> House Armed Services Committee Investigation of 1971
> The NSA History Report of 1981
> 
> "CIA Memorandums dated June 21, 1967. The June 13 memorandum is an "account of circumstances of the attack ... compiled from all available sources." The June 21 memorandum is a point-by-point analysis of Israeli inquiry findings of fact. *It concludes: "The attack was not made in malice toward the U.S. and was by mistake"*
> 
> "The Senate Foreign Relations Committee Testimony contains, as an aside matter during hearings concerning a foreign aid authorization bill, questions and statements from several senators and responses from then Secretary of Defense, Robert McNamara, about the Liberty attack. and concluded his remarks by saying:* "I simply want to emphasize that the investigative report does not show any evidence of a conscious intent to attack a U.S. vessel."*
> 
> *The National Archives in College Park, Md., includes in its files on casualties from the Liberty copies of the original telegrams the Navy sent out to family members. The telegrams called the attack accidental. The telegrams were sent out June 9, the day before the Navy court of inquiry convened.
> [edit]*
> 
> "The U.S. Naval Court of Inquiry record contains testimony by fourteen Liberty crew members and five subject matter experts; exhibits of attack damage photographs, various messages and memorandums; and findings of fact. The testimony record reveals "a shallow investigation, plagued by myriad disagreements between the captain and his crew.*"......the court concluded that "available evidence combines to indicate ... (that the attack was) a case of mistaken identity." *Additionally, the Court found that "heroism displayed by the Commanding Officer, officers and men of the Liberty was exceptional."
Click to expand...


----------



## High_Gravity

The people asking what the right to exist means need to issue an apology to the board for their stupidity and ignorance.


----------



## irosie91

Jihadist pigs dance when americans are slaughtered------and then claim that  JEWS do not have respect for dead americans   ------------I have never heard of any group OBJECTING TO A CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATION          how is that done?       picket lines?      In fact I do recall that there was a congressional investigation into the Liberty incident ALMOST IMMEDIATELY --------can someone cite even a single  OBJECTION to the proceeding?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drtywhtboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The signing of the Oslo Accords should have brought peace to the Middle East. Israel gave up its territory in the Gaza Strip, and the West Bank. The Palestinians went in there
> and destroyed the infrastructure, the greenhouses, the farms, everything. The also kept sending katusha missiles into Israel from the West Bank and Gaza.
> 
> Arafat may have signed that treaty in Washington, but as soon as he got off the plane where ever he landed, he started the blood shed again...Why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> your language portrays your bigotry. israel has no land in the gaza or the west bank, and any rocket fire has been preceded by more israeli expansion, and it ight be wise to identify who exactly is firing the rockets. if joe scmuck from point roberts starts lobbing rockets into surrey, british colubia, do you think canada would be justified in bombong and shelling the hell out of seattle?
> 
> the destruction of infrastructure is largely myth and propaganda. the so called infrastructure was meant to accomadate a small group of israeli settlers and was of no practical use to the people of gaza. not only that, it was a reminder of a brutal occupation...kinda like when that terrorist group, the sons of liberty, toppled the statue of king george III in NYC. huh?
> 
> if israel wants peace and secure borders, they can have it. they could have had it a long tie ago. i cannot belieeve, in this day in age, people like you believe israel wants peace.. israel will not negotiaate any peace. they want to steal land and make any future palestinian state impossible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you would have removed your head from your anti semitic ass you would tell the truth, which is, the rocket attacks from Gaza started when Israel totally evacuated Gaza.
Click to expand...


When Israel left Gaza it locked the doors and threw away the key. Hundreds of tons of produce rotted at the dock because Israel would allow exports. This is the income Gaza needed to have a viable economy.

The problem is that Israelis are too fucking stupid to figure out thy they get rockets.


----------



## irosie91

"The U.S. Naval Court of Inquiry record contains testimony by  a number of  xxxxxxx   crew members and many  subject matter experts; pictures of  damage photographs, various messages and memorandums; and findings of fact. The testimony record reveals 'a shallow investigation, plagued by myriad disagreements between the captain and his crew...'"


        LOL    THE ABOVE CAN BE APPLIED TO JUST ABOUT EVERY NAVAL INVESTIGATION THAT EVER TOOK PLACE.    Some guy goes around and says    WRITE DOWN WHAT HAPPENED AS YOU WITNESSED IT     -----and as many times he says it-----that is how many DIFFERENT VERSIONS of the event he gets


----------



## SAYIT

reabhloideach said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> _you sure are crass and flippant regarding the deaths of 34 american sailors. ... _
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, bog off with all buckshot-ridden posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> boy, you sure get pissy when someone steps in to defend the honour and integrity of american sailors.
Click to expand...


LOL! 
Yeah, sure that's what you're doing. 
Your "love" for those sailors is measured by how their tragic deaths now serve your hate. Some of us remember when you and Skit battled for months over which of you could best goosestep and carry the Swastika.  
However, I do love when you cyber hate-mongers wrap yourselves in the American flag. 
You're just selling your hate (as you've done for years) and there's nothing noble about it so cut the crap.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, a bright, sunny day, a us flag the size of a garage, USS Liberty painted on the sides, a profile that was unique in the world.
> 
> Of course it was a case of mistaken identity.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what seven independent govt investigations concluded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's what the propagandists say.
Click to expand...


----------



## georgephillip

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Got any proof of those "seven independent investigations?"*
> 
> The deliberate attack on _Liberty_ remains the only incident of its kind never investigated by the entire US Congress.
> 
> "The U.S. Naval Court of Inquiry record contains testimony by fourteen Liberty crew members and five subject matter experts; exhibits of attack damage photographs, various messages and memorandums; and findings of fact. The testimony record reveals 'a shallow investigation, plagued by myriad disagreements between the captain and his crew...'"
> 
> "The Joint Chief of Staff's Report contains findings of fact related only to communication system failures associated with the Liberty attack. It was not concerned with matters of culpability, nor does it contain statements thereof.
> 
> The CIA Memorandums consist of two documents: one dated June 13, 1967, and the other dated June 21, 1967. The June 13 memorandum is an 'account of circumstances of the attack ... compiled from all available sources.'
> 
> "The June 21 memorandum is a point-by-point analysis of Israeli inquiry findings of fact.
> 
> "It concludes: 'The attack was not made in malice toward the U.S. and was by mistake, but the failure of the IDF Headquarters and the attacking aircraft to identify the Liberty and the subsequent attack by torpedo boats were both incongruous and indicative of gross negligence."
> 
> "The Clark Clifford Report consists of a review of 'all available information on the subject' and 'deals with the question of Israeli culpability', according to its transmittal memorandum. The report concludes: '*The unprovoked attack on the Liberty constitutes a flagrant act of gross negligence* for which the *Israeli Government should be held completely responsible*, and the *Israeli military personnel involved should be punished*.'"
> 
> USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> Put on some glasses, you fucking IslamoNazi piece of shit. Here are 7 SEVEN govt investigations from your link, and NOT ONE found that Israel intentionally attacked the boat.
> 
> U.S. Naval Court of Inquiry of June 1967
> Joint Chief of Staff's Report of June 1967.
> CIA Intelligence Memorandums of June 1967
> Clark Clifford Report of July 1967
> Senate Foreign Relations Committee Testimony during hearings of the 1967 Foreign Aid Authorization bill, July 1967
> House Armed Services Committee Investigation of 1971
> The NSA History Report of 1981
> 
> "CIA Memorandums dated June 21, 1967. The June 13 memorandum is an "account of circumstances of the attack ... compiled from all available sources." The June 21 memorandum is a point-by-point analysis of Israeli inquiry findings of fact. *It concludes: "The attack was not made in malice toward the U.S. and was by mistake"*
> 
> "The Senate Foreign Relations Committee Testimony contains, as an aside matter during hearings concerning a foreign aid authorization bill, questions and statements from several senators and responses from then Secretary of Defense, Robert McNamara, about the Liberty attack. and concluded his remarks by saying:* "I simply want to emphasize that the investigative report does not show any evidence of a conscious intent to attack a U.S. vessel."*
> 
> *The National Archives in College Park, Md., includes in its files on casualties from the Liberty copies of the original telegrams the Navy sent out to family members. The telegrams called the attack accidental. The telegrams were sent out June 9, the day before the Navy court of inquiry convened.
> [edit]*
> 
> "The U.S. Naval Court of Inquiry record contains testimony by fourteen Liberty crew members and five subject matter experts; exhibits of attack damage photographs, various messages and memorandums; and findings of fact. The testimony record reveals "a shallow investigation, plagued by myriad disagreements between the captain and his crew.*"......the court concluded that "available evidence combines to indicate ... (that the attack was) a case of mistaken identity." *Additionally, the Court found that "heroism displayed by the Commanding Officer, officers and men of the Liberty was exceptional."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Starting with the US Naval Court of Inquiry, Golda:*
> 
> "Mr. Secretary, it is respectfully submitted that, even based solely upon the facts and circumstances outlined above, the Navy Court of Inquiry into the Israeli attack on USS Liberty - *the sole official investigation by the United States Government into that attack* - was deficient and prejudiced, even at its outset, by the unreasonable haste imposed informally by the appointing authority.
> 
> "In addition, the processing of that Court's hasty result was further compromised by its peremptory withdrawal from its initial and prescribed legal review in the field, and its hurried transmission to the seat of the U.S. Government under cover of a purported official endorsement that could not conceivably have been based upon even a cursory complete review of even the hasty work of the Navy Court of Inquiry.
> 
> "Inexplicably, the Court record was classified Top Secret and withheld from public scru-tiny for many years."
> 
> Do you think two weeks was a reasonable amount of time for an investigation, or a whitewash?
> Bitch.
> 
> USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events
Click to expand...


----------



## drtywhtboy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> your language portrays your bigotry. israel has no land in the gaza or the west bank, and any rocket fire has been preceded by more israeli expansion, and it ight be wise to identify who exactly is firing the rockets. if joe scmuck from point roberts starts lobbing rockets into surrey, british colubia, do you think canada would be justified in bombong and shelling the hell out of seattle?
> 
> the destruction of infrastructure is largely myth and propaganda. the so called infrastructure was meant to accomadate a small group of israeli settlers and was of no practical use to the people of gaza. not only that, it was a reminder of a brutal occupation...kinda like when that terrorist group, the sons of liberty, toppled the statue of king george III in NYC. huh?
> 
> if israel wants peace and secure borders, they can have it. they could have had it a long tie ago. i cannot belieeve, in this day in age, people like you believe israel wants peace.. israel will not negotiaate any peace. they want to steal land and make any future palestinian state impossible.
> 
> 
> 
> If you would have removed your head from your anti semitic ass you would tell the truth, which is, the rocket attacks from Gaza started when Israel totally evacuated Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When Israel left Gaza it locked the doors and threw away the key. Hundreds of tons of produce rotted at the dock because Israel would allow exports. This is the income Gaza needed to have a viable economy.
> 
> The problem is that Israelis are too fucking stupid to figure out thy they get rockets.
Click to expand...


 So Israel gets rockets because they gave the land over to a bunch of terrorist, and thus they should have known better? Well, let me tell you what's about to happen, there is going to be a renewed war in Israel; Syria, Jordan and Lebanon are going to attack Israel, and one of them, Syria, is going to use Chemical weapons on Tel Aviv...after that, you can kiss Damascus good-bye...I promise you that this battle will take place, and the aftermath will be that Israel will be in bad shape, but her borders will connect to Iraq and Georgia. 

 The Iranians are still employing Syria as her stalking horse, and they will find out that its going to take Russia and China, who back every play made by Iran, and then the world will be taken into World War 3. Do you honestly think that anybody on the planet wants that? I know Israel don't...however, your boy Ahmadinejad is trying to start it with this 12th Imam business...I don't think any of you want this either, so why condemn the only nation in the world that is under constant attack by a another people who are neither refugees or prisoners...

 Oh yea, one other thing....You can stop with this bigot crap too, my family is only 3 generations removed from the Western indian reservations, we are bigoted to no one...even in your twisted little mind


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Put on some glasses, you fucking IslamoNazi piece of shit. Here are 7 SEVEN govt investigations from your link, and NOT ONE found that Israel intentionally attacked the boat.
> 
> U.S. Naval Court of Inquiry of June 1967
> Joint Chief of Staff's Report of June 1967.
> CIA Intelligence Memorandums of June 1967
> Clark Clifford Report of July 1967
> Senate Foreign Relations Committee Testimony during hearings of the 1967 Foreign Aid Authorization bill, July 1967
> House Armed Services Committee Investigation of 1971
> The NSA History Report of 1981
> 
> "CIA Memorandums dated June 21, 1967. The June 13 memorandum is an "account of circumstances of the attack ... compiled from all available sources." The June 21 memorandum is a point-by-point analysis of Israeli inquiry findings of fact. *It concludes: "The attack was not made in malice toward the U.S. and was by mistake"*
> 
> "The Senate Foreign Relations Committee Testimony contains, as an aside matter during hearings concerning a foreign aid authorization bill, questions and statements from several senators and responses from then Secretary of Defense, Robert McNamara, about the Liberty attack. and concluded his remarks by saying:* "I simply want to emphasize that the investigative report does not show any evidence of a conscious intent to attack a U.S. vessel."*
> 
> *The National Archives in College Park, Md., includes in its files on casualties from the Liberty copies of the original telegrams the Navy sent out to family members. The telegrams called the attack accidental. The telegrams were sent out June 9, the day before the Navy court of inquiry convened.
> [edit]*
> 
> "The U.S. Naval Court of Inquiry record contains testimony by fourteen Liberty crew members and five subject matter experts; exhibits of attack damage photographs, various messages and memorandums; and findings of fact. The testimony record reveals "a shallow investigation, plagued by myriad disagreements between the captain and his crew.*"......the court concluded that "available evidence combines to indicate ... (that the attack was) a case of mistaken identity." *Additionally, the Court found that "heroism displayed by the Commanding Officer, officers and men of the Liberty was exceptional."
> 
> 
> 
> *Starting with the US Naval Court of Inquiry, Golda:*
> 
> "Mr. Secretary, it is respectfully submitted that, even based solely upon the facts and circumstances outlined above, the Navy Court of Inquiry into the Israeli attack on USS Liberty - *the sole official investigation by the United States Government into that attack* - was deficient and prejudiced, even at its outset, by the unreasonable haste imposed informally by the appointing authority.
> 
> "In addition, the processing of that Court's hasty result was further compromised by its peremptory withdrawal from its initial and prescribed legal review in the field, and its hurried transmission to the seat of the U.S. Government under cover of a purported official endorsement that could not conceivably have been based upon even a cursory complete review of even the hasty work of the Navy Court of Inquiry.
> 
> "Inexplicably, the Court record was classified Top Secret and withheld from public scru-tiny for many years."
> 
> Do you think two weeks was a reasonable amount of time for an investigation, or a whitewash?
> Bitch.
> 
> USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit. All the facts pointed to an accident and that's exactly what it was. You misquoted and omitted the findings because it disproved your claims. There were 7 investigations, not all were perfect but they all came TO THE SAME CONCLUSION. You can scream and holler all you want.
> 
> Perhaps if you want "conclusive proof" of an attack on a US ship, you should look into Muslim animals attacking US shipslike the Cole etc. but you're not interested n that are you, George Muhammad?
Click to expand...


----------



## georgephillip

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Starting with the US Naval Court of Inquiry, Golda:*
> 
> "Mr. Secretary, it is respectfully submitted that, even based solely upon the facts and circumstances outlined above, the Navy Court of Inquiry into the Israeli attack on USS Liberty - *the sole official investigation by the United States Government into that attack* - was deficient and prejudiced, even at its outset, by the unreasonable haste imposed informally by the appointing authority.
> 
> "In addition, the processing of that Court's hasty result was further compromised by its peremptory withdrawal from its initial and prescribed legal review in the field, and its hurried transmission to the seat of the U.S. Government under cover of a purported official endorsement that could not conceivably have been based upon even a cursory complete review of even the hasty work of the Navy Court of Inquiry.
> 
> "Inexplicably, the Court record was classified Top Secret and withheld from public scru-tiny for many years."
> 
> Do you think two weeks was a reasonable amount of time for an investigation, or a whitewash?
> Bitch.
> 
> USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit. All the facts pointed to an accident and that's exactly what it was. You misquoted and omitted the findings because it disproved your claims. There were 7 investigations, not all were perfect but they all came TO THE SAME CONCLUSION. You can scream and holler all you want.
> 
> Perhaps if you want "conclusive proof" of an attack on a US ship, you should look into Muslim animals attacking US shipslike the Cole etc. but you're not interested n that are you, George Muhammad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Fuck your flag, Rougey.*
> 
> How did your heroic Jews "accidentally" machine gun life rafts?
> 
> "Following their torpedo attack, the torpedo boats moved up and down the length of the ship (both the port and starboard sides), continuing their attack, raking the ship with cannon and machine gun fire.[21]
> 
> "In Malta, crewmen were later assigned the task of counting all of the holes in the ship that were the size of a man's hand or larger. They found a total of 861 such holes, in addition to 'thousands' of .50 caliber machine gun holes.
> 
> "Survivors report that the torpedo boat crews swept the decks of USS Liberty with continuous machine gun fire, targeting communications equipment and any crewmembers who ventured above decks...[22]
> 
> "Survivors also report that the *torpedo boat crews fired on the inflated life boats* launched by the crew after the captain gave the order 'prepare to abandon ship.'[24] This order had to be rescinded because the crew was unable to stand on the main deck without being fired upon and *the life rafts were destroyed as they were launched*."
> 
> USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events
Click to expand...


----------



## sealadaigh

drtywhtboy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you would have removed your head from your anti semitic ass you would tell the truth, which is, the rocket attacks from Gaza started when Israel totally evacuated Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Israel left Gaza it locked the doors and threw away the key. Hundreds of tons of produce rotted at the dock because Israel would allow exports. This is the income Gaza needed to have a viable economy.
> 
> The problem is that Israelis are too fucking stupid to figure out thy they get rockets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Israel gets rockets because they gave the land over to a bunch of terrorist, and thus they should have known better? Well, let me tell you what's about to happen, there is going to be a renewed war in Israel; Syria, Jordan and Lebanon are going to attack Israel, and one of them, Syria, is going to use Chemical weapons on Tel Aviv...after that, you can kiss Damascus good-bye...I promise you that this battle will take place, and the aftermath will be that Israel will be in bad shape, but her borders will connect to Iraq and Georgia.
> 
> The Iranians are still employing Syria as her stalking horse, and they will find out that its going to take Russia and China, who back every play made by Iran, and then the world will be taken into World War 3. Do you honestly think that anybody on the planet wants that? I know Israel don't...however, your boy Ahmadinejad is trying to start it with this 12th Imam business...I don't think any of you want this either, so why condemn the only nation in the world that is under constant attack by a another people who are neither refugees or prisoners...
> 
> Oh yea, one other thing....You can stop with this bigot crap too, *my family is only 3 generations removed from the Western indian reservations,* we are bigoted to no one...even in your twisted little mind
Click to expand...


LOLOL...yeah, sure. you are a damn liar if ever there was one. i have never ever heard a native american say "Western indian reservations". every single indian i know, and i know plenty (i actually had a son who went to Wa He Lut indian school and i was invited to many events by many tribes and was made a lifetime member in AIM and was even busted and gaoled for demonstrating for treaty rights)  identifies their tribe and the name of the reservation...like "my family is olala lakota from the pine ridge reservation in south dakota"...something like that. look, chief, i'm irish but my son is part cowlitz and has the card to prove it so don't try to run your game on me. you are a goddammed ffriggin' liar. besides that, you're from alabama...and stupid as all hell.

and who the hell says indians can't be bigoted anyway. someone would have to be pretty riggin' stupid to say something like that. that's like saying blacks can't be bigoted, or jews, or asians, or the irish or italians or, heaven forfend, those damn dirty ayrabs...huh?

you are a friggin' poor white trash, bible thumpin', snake charmin' evangelical if ever there was one and you just described one of the many armeggedon scenes that comes before a rapture where some white boy god sucks your eternally fooked soul up to his "no jews, negroes, or catholics need apply" land of milk and peanut butter and jelly sandwichs.

what the heck is it about israel supporters that make them lie so much. (i'm cuttin' hoss out of that deal because i don't like a lot of things he says, but i haven't really heard him deliberately tell a factual lie.)


----------



## drtywhtboy

reabhloideach said:


> drtywhtboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When Israel left Gaza it locked the doors and threw away the key. Hundreds of tons of produce rotted at the dock because Israel would allow exports. This is the income Gaza needed to have a viable economy.
> 
> The problem is that Israelis are too fucking stupid to figure out thy they get rockets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So Israel gets rockets because they gave the land over to a bunch of terrorist, and thus they should have known better? Well, let me tell you what's about to happen, there is going to be a renewed war in Israel; Syria, Jordan and Lebanon are going to attack Israel, and one of them, Syria, is going to use Chemical weapons on Tel Aviv...after that, you can kiss Damascus good-bye...I promise you that this battle will take place, and the aftermath will be that Israel will be in bad shape, but her borders will connect to Iraq and Georgia.
> 
> The Iranians are still employing Syria as her stalking horse, and they will find out that its going to take Russia and China, who back every play made by Iran, and then the world will be taken into World War 3. Do you honestly think that anybody on the planet wants that? I know Israel don't...however, your boy Ahmadinejad is trying to start it with this 12th Imam business...I don't think any of you want this either, so why condemn the only nation in the world that is under constant attack by a another people who are neither refugees or prisoners...
> 
> Oh yea, one other thing....You can stop with this bigot crap too, *my family is only 3 generations removed from the Western indian reservations,* we are bigoted to no one...even in your twisted little mind
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOLOL...yeah, sure. you are a damn liar if ever there was one. i have never ever heard a native american say "Western indian reservations". every single indian i know, and i know plenty (i actually had a son who went to Wa He Lut indian school and i was invited to many events by many tribes and was made a lifetime member in AIM and was even busted and gaoled for demonstrating for treaty rights)  identifies their tribe and the name of the reservation...like "my family is olala lakota from the pine ridge reservation in south dakota"...something like that. look, chief, i'm irish but my son is part cowlitz and has the card to prove it so don't try to run your game on me. you are a goddammed ffriggin' liar. besides that, you're from alabama...and stupid as all hell.
> 
> and who the hell says indians can't be bigoted anyway. someone would have to be pretty riggin' stupid to say something like that. that's like saying blacks can't be bigoted, or jews, or asians, or the irish or italians or, heaven forfend, those damn dirty ayrabs...huh?
> 
> you are a friggin' poor white trash, bible thumpin', snake charmin' evangelical if ever there was one and you just described one of the many armeggedon scenes that comes before a rapture where some white boy god sucks your eternally fooked soul up to his "no jews, negroes, or catholics need apply" land of milk and peanut butter and jelly sandwichs.
> 
> what the heck is it about israel supporters that make them lie so much. (i'm cuttin' hoss out of that deal because i don't like a lot of things he says, but i haven't really heard him deliberately tell a factual lie.)[
> 
> First off, I'm  not a liar. Second, yes I am a evangelical Christian, third and most importantly I don't play with snakes. and the rest well, your just ignorant and I can't help you with that...
Click to expand...


----------



## Intense

A Lot of specifics in regard to the firing on the USS Liberty. As I recall, there was plenty of blame to go around between Israel and Our Own Joint Chief's of Staff. I believe there was even an Israeli Pilot, Court-marshaled for refusing to fire on The Liberty. The Flag was spotted, The Ship was Spying, using Satellite Dish Technology, bouncing the signal off of the Moon, the Joint Chiefs would not admit that the Ship was even there, I remember something about a US Sub witnessing the whole thing, the first squadron of Jets assigned to intercept had to be recalled to their Carrier, because they were carrying Nukes. It was a total cluster fuck, all the way around. Israel was under attack at the time, so timing made everything worse.


----------



## irosie91

There was no Israeli courtmartialed for refusing to fire on the  USS Liberty         see your doctor for your memory issues       In every military accident there is LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of -------blame to go around         For the record----there are LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of military accidents           not only is war dangerous-------anything military is dangerous


----------



## High_Gravity

reabhloideach said:


> drtywhtboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When Israel left Gaza it locked the doors and threw away the key. Hundreds of tons of produce rotted at the dock because Israel would allow exports. This is the income Gaza needed to have a viable economy.
> 
> The problem is that Israelis are too fucking stupid to figure out thy they get rockets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So Israel gets rockets because they gave the land over to a bunch of terrorist, and thus they should have known better? Well, let me tell you what's about to happen, there is going to be a renewed war in Israel; Syria, Jordan and Lebanon are going to attack Israel, and one of them, Syria, is going to use Chemical weapons on Tel Aviv...after that, you can kiss Damascus good-bye...I promise you that this battle will take place, and the aftermath will be that Israel will be in bad shape, but her borders will connect to Iraq and Georgia.
> 
> The Iranians are still employing Syria as her stalking horse, and they will find out that its going to take Russia and China, who back every play made by Iran, and then the world will be taken into World War 3. Do you honestly think that anybody on the planet wants that? I know Israel don't...however, your boy Ahmadinejad is trying to start it with this 12th Imam business...I don't think any of you want this either, so why condemn the only nation in the world that is under constant attack by a another people who are neither refugees or prisoners...
> 
> Oh yea, one other thing....You can stop with this bigot crap too, *my family is only 3 generations removed from the Western indian reservations,* we are bigoted to no one...even in your twisted little mind
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOLOL...yeah, sure. you are a damn liar if ever there was one. i have never ever heard a native american say "Western indian reservations". every single indian i know, and i know plenty (i actually had a son who went to Wa He Lut indian school and i was invited to many events by many tribes and was made a lifetime member in AIM and was even busted and gaoled for demonstrating for treaty rights)  identifies their tribe and the name of the reservation...like "my family is olala lakota from the pine ridge reservation in south dakota"...something like that. look, chief, i'm irish but my son is part cowlitz and has the card to prove it so don't try to run your game on me. you are a goddammed ffriggin' liar. besides that, you're from alabama...and stupid as all hell.
> 
> and who the hell says indians can't be bigoted anyway. someone would have to be pretty riggin' stupid to say something like that. that's like saying blacks can't be bigoted, or jews, or asians, or the irish or italians or, heaven forfend, those damn dirty ayrabs...huh?
> 
> you are a friggin' poor white trash, bible thumpin', snake charmin' evangelical if ever there was one and you just described one of the many armeggedon scenes that comes before a rapture where some white boy god sucks your eternally fooked soul up to his "no jews, negroes, or catholics need apply" land of milk and peanut butter and jelly sandwichs.
> 
> what the heck is it about israel supporters that make them lie so much. (i'm cuttin' hoss out of that deal because i don't like a lot of things he says, but i haven't really heard him deliberately tell a factual lie.)
Click to expand...


You terrorist supports have the market cornered on lying gal.


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit. All the facts pointed to an accident and that's exactly what it was. You misquoted and omitted the findings because it disproved your claims. There were 7 investigations, not all were perfect but they all came TO THE SAME CONCLUSION. You can scream and holler all you want.
> 
> Perhaps if you want "conclusive proof" of an attack on a US ship, you should look into Muslim animals attacking US shipslike the Cole etc. but you're not interested n that are you, George Muhammad?
> 
> 
> 
> *Fuck your flag, Rougey.*
> 
> How did your heroic Jews "accidentally" machine gun life rafts?
> 
> "Following their torpedo attack, the torpedo boats moved up and down the length of the ship (both the port and starboard sides), continuing their attack, raking the ship with cannon and machine gun fire.[21]
> 
> "In Malta, crewmen were later assigned the task of counting all of the holes in the ship that were the size of a man's hand or larger. They found a total of 861 such holes, in addition to 'thousands' of .50 caliber machine gun holes.
> 
> "Survivors report that the torpedo boat crews swept the decks of USS Liberty with continuous machine gun fire, targeting communications equipment and any crewmembers who ventured above decks...[22]
> 
> "Survivors also report that the *torpedo boat crews fired on the inflated life boats* launched by the crew after the captain gave the order 'prepare to abandon ship.'[24] This order had to be rescinded because the crew was unable to stand on the main deck without being fired upon and *the life rafts were destroyed as they were launched*."
> 
> USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fuck , and your heroic Muslims, Mohammad.  The boat was on a reconnaissance mission, Arab animals attacked Israel and the US was just "observing" the situation.  The boat was mistaken for an Arab boat, and the Israelis decided to take it out.  Muslims do this shit all the time, asshole, right now in Afganistan and Iraq, they're dressing up as US personnel and going after Americans.
> 
> Open your mouth and I'll shit in it some more.
Click to expand...


----------



## Roudy

Intense said:


> A Lot of specifics in regard to the firing on the USS Liberty. As I recall, there was plenty of blame to go around between Israel and Our Own Joint Chief's of Staff. I believe there was even an Israeli Pilot, Court-marshaled for refusing to fire on The Liberty. The Flag was spotted, The Ship was Spying, using Satellite Dish Technology, bouncing the signal off of the Moon, the Joint Chiefs would not admit that the Ship was even there, I remember something about a US Sub witnessing the whole thing, the first squadron of Jets assigned to intercept had to be recalled to their Carrier, because they were carrying Nukes. It was a total cluster fuck, all the way around. Israel was under attack at the time, so timing made everything worse.


exactly.


----------



## Roudy

High_Gravity said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drtywhtboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Israel gets rockets because they gave the land over to a bunch of terrorist, and thus they should have known better? Well, let me tell you what's about to happen, there is going to be a renewed war in Israel; Syria, Jordan and Lebanon are going to attack Israel, and one of them, Syria, is going to use Chemical weapons on Tel Aviv...after that, you can kiss Damascus good-bye...I promise you that this battle will take place, and the aftermath will be that Israel will be in bad shape, but her borders will connect to Iraq and Georgia.
> 
> The Iranians are still employing Syria as her stalking horse, and they will find out that its going to take Russia and China, who back every play made by Iran, and then the world will be taken into World War 3. Do you honestly think that anybody on the planet wants that? I know Israel don't...however, your boy Ahmadinejad is trying to start it with this 12th Imam business...I don't think any of you want this either, so why condemn the only nation in the world that is under constant attack by a another people who are neither refugees or prisoners...
> 
> Oh yea, one other thing....You can stop with this bigot crap too, *my family is only 3 generations removed from the Western indian reservations,* we are bigoted to no one...even in your twisted little mind
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOLOL...yeah, sure. you are a damn liar if ever there was one. i have never ever heard a native american say "Western indian reservations". every single indian i know, and i know plenty (i actually had a son who went to Wa He Lut indian school and i was invited to many events by many tribes and was made a lifetime member in AIM and was even busted and gaoled for demonstrating for treaty rights)  identifies their tribe and the name of the reservation...like "my family is olala lakota from the pine ridge reservation in south dakota"...something like that. look, chief, i'm irish but my son is part cowlitz and has the card to prove it so don't try to run your game on me. you are a goddammed ffriggin' liar. besides that, you're from alabama...and stupid as all hell.
> 
> and who the hell says indians can't be bigoted anyway. someone would have to be pretty riggin' stupid to say something like that. that's like saying blacks can't be bigoted, or jews, or asians, or the irish or italians or, heaven forfend, those damn dirty ayrabs...huh?
> 
> you are a friggin' poor white trash, bible thumpin', snake charmin' evangelical if ever there was one and you just described one of the many armeggedon scenes that comes before a rapture where some white boy god sucks your eternally fooked soul up to his "no jews, negroes, or catholics need apply" land of milk and peanut butter and jelly sandwichs.
> 
> what the heck is it about israel supporters that make them lie so much. (i'm cuttin' hoss out of that deal because i don't like a lot of things he says, but i haven't really heard him deliberately tell a factual lie.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You terrorist supports have the market cornered on lying gal.
Click to expand...

It's called Turnspeak.  Muslims learned it from the Nazis.  Accuse the other of crimes you are most guilty of.


----------



## irosie91

The big error -----was that the US did not inform Israel that it had a ship in the area------there was a war going on.      The mistake created a tragedy --------now-----if you can prove that the US DID INFORM ISRAEL THAT THE SHIP WAS IN THE AREA----then you have a case.     Sorry------the US made a mistake------LOTS OF MISTAKES HAPPEN IN THE MILITARY      Attempts to make it a purposeful act are silly---------if it had been a purposeful act the ship would be at the bottom of the sea-----THERE WAS NOTHING TO STOP AN ALL OUT ATTACK


----------



## High_Gravity

Friendly fire happens all the time in war.


----------



## Roudy

SAYIT said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The evidence and documentation is so overwhelming and obvious, only a lunatic would make these kinds of claims. The Nazis themselves admitted to everything and provided the meticulously kept records that Nazis were famous for during the Nuremburg trials.
> 
> 
> 
> All the evidence and documentation wouldn't satisfy this self proclaimed Holocaust denier. He would still say it's all a big Zionist plot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That dynamic is not unique to ERGO ... it runs through all Holocaust deniers. It must be part of their handbook. Lots of circular argumentation and when the truth is too obvious to deny they run and hide for a while and return as if they never saw a word of the discourse.
Click to expand...

They sure do behave like a snake hiding in the bushes.


----------



## High_Gravity

Don't all these lies and turn speak get confusing after a while? fuck.


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _How did your heroic Jews "accidentally" machine gun life rafts?_


Leutenant Painter is a little liar and a creep, or, maybe, jihadi-moni doing talking.


----------



## georgephillip

Intense said:


> A Lot of specifics in regard to the firing on the USS Liberty. As I recall, there was plenty of blame to go around between Israel and Our Own Joint Chief's of Staff. I believe there was even an Israeli Pilot, Court-marshaled for refusing to fire on The Liberty. The Flag was spotted, The Ship was Spying, using Satellite Dish Technology, bouncing the signal off of the Moon, the Joint Chiefs would not admit that the Ship was even there, I remember something about a US Sub witnessing the whole thing, the first squadron of Jets assigned to intercept had to be recalled to their Carrier, because they were carrying Nukes. It was a total cluster fuck, all the way around. Israel was under attack at the time, so timing made everything worse.


I don't know how old you are, but I turned 20 in the summer of '67, and, while I wasn't in Vietnam myself, I knew a few guys who were, and they were none too happy to be neck-deep in the big muddy with a big fool telling them to push on; however, they would have torn Egypt to shreds for free if _Liberty_ had gone down with all hands, with the Egyptians getting the blame.

And their grandchildren might well be occupying Egyptian oil fields to this day.

I suspect the Joint Chiefs, Robert McNamera, and LBJ ordered the attack on _Liberty_. 
War is still a racket.


----------



## irosie91

georgephillip said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Lot of specifics in regard to the firing on the USS Liberty. As I recall, there was plenty of blame to go around between Israel and Our Own Joint Chief's of Staff. I believe there was even an Israeli Pilot, Court-marshaled for refusing to fire on The Liberty. The Flag was spotted, The Ship was Spying, using Satellite Dish Technology, bouncing the signal off of the Moon, the Joint Chiefs would not admit that the Ship was even there, I remember something about a US Sub witnessing the whole thing, the first squadron of Jets assigned to intercept had to be recalled to their Carrier, because they were carrying Nukes. It was a total cluster fuck, all the way around. Israel was under attack at the time, so timing made everything worse.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know how old you are, but I turned 20 in the summer of '67, and, while I wasn't in Vietnam myself, I knew a few guys who were, and they were none too happy to be neck-deep in the big muddy with a big fool telling them to push on; however, they would have torn Egypt to shreds for free if _Liberty_ had gone down with all hands, with the Egyptians getting the blame.
> 
> And their grandchildren might well be occupying Egyptian oil fields to this day.
> 
> I suspect the Joint Chiefs, Robert McNamera, and LBJ ordered the attack on _Liberty_.
> War is still a racket.
Click to expand...




For those confused by the above garble---it is important to understand that the jihadist partyline   is that Israel wanted to sink the USS LIBERTY and blame it on Egypt       ----the above garbler contends that doing to would bring the US over there to "DESTROY EGYPT"    This idiotic contention makes no sense-----Israel never tried to sink the USS Liberty-----could have easily done so if it wished to       there was no US submarine in the vicinity        and the details of the event were being radio broadcasted     WITHIN THE HOUR of its occurrence while the  Israeli navy was fishing some of our boys out of the sea        both american and israeli braodcasters hit the radio waves in the USA    

as to the US DESTOYING EGYPT if it thought that egypt had attacked the USS LIBERTY-----what a joke------Did you USA destroy  Yemen for attacking the COLE      Did the US  destroy Lebanon for  bombing marines asleep in a bunker?   

keep up the good work   George------you are good at making a fool of yourself    -----now go do your    IFTAR


----------



## georgephillip

irosie91 said:


> There was no Israeli courtmartialed for refusing to fire on the  USS Liberty         see your doctor for your memory issues       In every military accident there is LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of -------blame to go around         For the record----there are LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of military accidents           not only is war dangerous-------anything military is dangerous


*Not as dangerous as blind ideologues like you...*

"Fifteen years after the attack, an Israeli pilot approached Liberty survivors and then held extensive interviews with former Congressman Paul N. 'Pete' McCloskey about his role. According to this senior Israeli, he was 'lead pilot' in the attack. 

"When he recognized the Liberty as flying the American flag he informed his headquarters, but was told to ignore the American flag and continue his attack. He refused to do so and returned to base, where he was arrested.[6] There have been subsequent reports that two of the Israeli pilots refused to attack the 'Liberty' and 'were jailed for 18 years'.[3]

"A dual-citizen Israeli major has met with survivors to tell them that he was in an Israeli war-room where he heard that pilot's radio report. *The attacking pilots and everyone in the Israeli war-room knew that they were attacking an American ship, according to this Israeli major*. After allegedly receiving threats, this source has since recanted these statements.[6]

"However the then-U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon, Dwight Porter has confirmed the pilot's story, and revealed the pilot's protests (transmitted via radio) had already been monitored by U.S. intelligence stationed within his embassy in Lebanon. 

"Ambassador Porter told the story to syndicated columnists Rowland Evans and Robert Novak, and has also offered his testimony to US authorities, but claims that testimony has never yet been secured.[6]"

U.S.S. Liberty - What Really Happened Wiki


----------



## irosie91

George is going to tell us the name of the PILOT     who got arrested for refusing to bomb the Liberty


----------



## georgephillip

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Fuck your flag, Rougey.*
> 
> How did your heroic Jews "accidentally" machine gun life rafts?
> 
> "Following their torpedo attack, the torpedo boats moved up and down the length of the ship (both the port and starboard sides), continuing their attack, raking the ship with cannon and machine gun fire.[21]
> 
> "In Malta, crewmen were later assigned the task of counting all of the holes in the ship that were the size of a man's hand or larger. They found a total of 861 such holes, in addition to 'thousands' of .50 caliber machine gun holes.
> 
> "Survivors report that the torpedo boat crews swept the decks of USS Liberty with continuous machine gun fire, targeting communications equipment and any crewmembers who ventured above decks...[22]
> 
> "Survivors also report that the *torpedo boat crews fired on the inflated life boats* launched by the crew after the captain gave the order 'prepare to abandon ship.'[24] This order had to be rescinded because the crew was unable to stand on the main deck without being fired upon and *the life rafts were destroyed as they were launched*."
> 
> USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck , and your heroic Muslims, Mohammad.  The boat was on a reconnaissance mission, Arab animals attacked Israel and the US was just "observing" the situation.  The boat was mistaken for an Arab boat, and the Israelis decided to take it out.  Muslims do this shit all the time, asshole, right now in Afganistan and Iraq, they're dressing up as US personnel and going after Americans.
> 
> Open your mouth and I'll shit in it some more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How do you get hasbara's shit off your tonsils, Golda?
> 
> "USS Liberty sailors report that Israel attacked the Liberty using unmarked aircraft. This one observation tends to prove Israel knew exactly who they were attacking. Israel's story is that they thought USS Liberty was an Egyptian ship and therefore a legitimate target of war.
> 
> "Were that true, there would be no reason to attack a supposedly Egyptian ship with unmarked aircraft! The only possible reason to use unmarked aircraft to attack the ship is that Israel knew it was an American ship and intended to sink it, then to blame the attack on Egypt."
> 
> U.S.S. Liberty - What Really Happened Wiki
> 
> Try harder, Pussy.
Click to expand...


----------



## irosie91

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck , and your heroic Muslims, Mohammad.  The boat was on a reconnaissance mission, Arab animals attacked Israel and the US was just "observing" the situation.  The boat was mistaken for an Arab boat, and the Israelis decided to take it out.  Muslims do this shit all the time, asshole, right now in Afganistan and Iraq, they're dressing up as US personnel and going after Americans.
> 
> Open your mouth and I'll shit in it some more.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you get hasbara's shit off your tonsils, Golda?
> 
> "USS Liberty sailors report that Israel attacked the Liberty using unmarked aircraft. This one observation tends to prove Israel knew exactly who they were attacking. Israel's story is that they thought USS Liberty was an Egyptian ship and therefore a legitimate target of war.
> 
> "Were that true, there would be no reason to attack a supposedly Egyptian ship with unmarked aircraft! The only possible reason to use unmarked aircraft to attack the ship is that Israel knew it was an American ship and intended to sink it, then to blame the attack on Egypt."
> 
> U.S.S. Liberty - What Really Happened Wiki
> 
> Try harder, Pussy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> calm down  -----when I was in the navy-----when I was involved in investigating injuries ----even the admirals and generals called me  "ma'am"     The wiki article is silly propaganda ----   Anyone who has ever dealt with persons claiming "personal injury"  from any cause understands the need of the injured to  LAY BLAME    no matter how accidental was the cause of the injury            I have yet to hear an injured person say   "well----it was really non one's fault" in the course of a law suit ------or even long after the law suit was over and a "settlement"  paid
Click to expand...


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck , and your heroic Muslims, Mohammad.  The boat was on a reconnaissance mission, Arab animals attacked Israel and the US was just "observing" the situation.  The boat was mistaken for an Arab boat, and the Israelis decided to take it out.  Muslims do this shit all the time, asshole, right now in Afganistan and Iraq, they're dressing up as US personnel and going after Americans.
> 
> Open your mouth and I'll shit in it some more.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you get hasbara's shit off your tonsils, Golda?
> 
> "USS Liberty sailors report that Israel attacked the Liberty using unmarked aircraft. This one observation tends to prove Israel knew exactly who they were attacking. Israel's story is that they thought USS Liberty was an Egyptian ship and therefore a legitimate target of war.
> 
> "Were that true, there would be no reason to attack a supposedly Egyptian ship with unmarked aircraft! The only possible reason to use unmarked aircraft to attack the ship is that Israel knew it was an American ship and intended to sink it, then to blame the attack on Egypt."
> 
> U.S.S. Liberty - What Really Happened Wiki
> 
> Try harder, Pussy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Curious George the Islamist monkey is ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGED over the USS Liberty, but USS Cole, Marine Baracks, and over 16,000 acts of Islamic terror since 9-11, including some on Americans?  Eh, who cares.  No Jews involved.  No Jews, no juice.
Click to expand...


----------



## georgephillip

irosie91 said:


> The big error -----was that the US did not inform Israel that it had a ship in the area------there was a war going on.      The mistake created a tragedy --------now-----if you can prove that the US DID INFORM ISRAEL THAT THE SHIP WAS IN THE AREA----then you have a case.     Sorry------the US made a mistake------LOTS OF MISTAKES HAPPEN IN THE MILITARY      Attempts to make it a purposeful act are silly---------if it had been a purposeful act the ship would be at the bottom of the sea-----THERE WAS NOTHING TO STOP AN ALL OUT ATTACK


"*Israel acknowledged the following facts without qualification:*
a. USS Liberty was an American ship, hence a neutral vis-à-vis the June 
1967 war between Israel and its Arab neighbors.
8
b. USS Liberty remained in international waters at all times on June 8, 1967
9
.
c. The attacking Israeli forces never made a positive identification of the nationality of USS Liberty before unleashing deadly force in their attack on 
the ship.
10
At approximately 0600 hours (all times local) on the morning of June 8, 1967 an Israeli maritime reconnaissance aircraft observer reported seeing 'a US Navy cargo type 
ship,' just outside the coverage of the Israeli coastal radar defense net, bearing the hull 
markings 'GTR-5'.
11
 "This report, made to Israeli naval HQ, was also forwarded immediately to the Israeli navy intelligence directorate..."

"Throughout the remainder of the day prior to the attack, Israeli reconnaissance aircraft regularly flew out to USS Libertys position and orbited the ship before returning to 
their bases in Israel. A total of no fewer than eight (8) such flights were made.
13
"At approximately 1050 hours, the naval observer from the early morning reconnaissance flight arrived at Israeli air force HQ and sat down with the air-naval liaison officer 
there. *The two officers consulted Janes Fighting Ships and learned that the ship reported earlier in the day was USS Liberty*, a United States Navy technical research 
ship..."

"In the instant matter, Israel freely acknowledged that USS Liberty was a neutral ship 
in international waters.
57
 "Israel also admitted that the attack was deliberate and made 
with the intent to sink the ship and crew.
58
"Israel has thus explicitly admitted the essential elements of a violation of Article 1 of the Hague Convention on Naval Warfare. Israel 
has further admitted the essential elements required to establish a 'grave breach' as 
that term is defined in the Geneva Convention (1949).
The Nürnberg War Crimes Tribunal established certain principles that were later 
adopted by all members of the United Nations."

http://www.gtr5.com/evidence/warcrimes.pdf


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _"USS Liberty sailors report that Israel attacked the Liberty using unmarked aircraft. This one observation tends to prove Israel knew exactly who they were attacking. Israel's story is that they thought USS Liberty was an Egyptian ship and therefore a legitimate target of war._


Leutenant Painter is a little cteepy liah. According to the testimony of Signalman Russell David the latter saw israeli insignia on the attacking craft and reported that to the Cap. Dooh.


----------



## georgephillip

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you get hasbara's shit off your tonsils, Golda?
> 
> "USS Liberty sailors report that Israel attacked the Liberty using unmarked aircraft. This one observation tends to prove Israel knew exactly who they were attacking. Israel's story is that they thought USS Liberty was an Egyptian ship and therefore a legitimate target of war.
> 
> "Were that true, there would be no reason to attack a supposedly Egyptian ship with unmarked aircraft! The only possible reason to use unmarked aircraft to attack the ship is that Israel knew it was an American ship and intended to sink it, then to blame the attack on Egypt."
> 
> U.S.S. Liberty - What Really Happened Wiki
> 
> Try harder, Pussy.
> 
> 
> 
> Curious George the Islamist monkey is ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGED over the USS Liberty, but USS Cole, Marine Baracks, and over 16,000 acts of Islamic terror since 9-11, including some on Americans?  Eh, who cares.  No Jews involved.  No Jews, no juice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Why did the Heroic Hebrews fly unmarked jets, Rougey?*
> 
> In case you're still stupid, I'll type the word "noncombatant" very slowly.
> So your hasbara minders have time to explain the distinction between the crew of _Liberty_ and the dead Marines in Lebanon.
> Jews are scenery in this tale. They're strategic assets in the US Empire's fifty year campaign of terror that's seen millions murdered, maimed, displaced, and incarcerated from Korea to Khandahar.
> 
> Shit like you and Bibi are just there for the comic relief.
Click to expand...


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"USS Liberty sailors report that Israel attacked the Liberty using unmarked aircraft. This one observation tends to prove Israel knew exactly who they were attacking. Israel's story is that they thought USS Liberty was an Egyptian ship and therefore a legitimate target of war._
> 
> 
> 
> Leutenant Painter is a little cteepy liah. According to the testimony of Signalman Russell David the latter saw israeli insignia on the attacking craft and reported that to the Cap. Dooh.
Click to expand...

Would that be Signalman Russell "Star of" David, drivel?
How many of your neighbors have you murdered today?


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Curious George the Islamist monkey is ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGED over the USS Liberty, but USS Cole, Marine Baracks, and over 16,000 acts of Islamic terror since 9-11, including some on Americans?  Eh, who cares.  No Jews involved.  No Jews, no juice.
> 
> 
> 
> *Why did the Heroic Hebrews fly unmarked jets, Rougey?*
> 
> In case you're still stupid, I'll type the word "noncombatant" very slowly.
> So your hasbara minders have time to explain the distinction between the crew of _Liberty_ and the dead Marines in Lebanon.
> Jews are scenery in this tale. They're strategic assets in the US Empire's fifty year campaign of terror that's seen millions murdered, maimed, displaced, and incarcerated from Korea to Khandahar.
> 
> Shit like you and Bibi are just there for the comic relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stop your whining Abdul.  Tissue?
Click to expand...


----------



## sealadaigh

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you get hasbara's shit off your tonsils, Golda?
> 
> "USS Liberty sailors report that Israel attacked the Liberty using unmarked aircraft. This one observation tends to prove Israel knew exactly who they were attacking. Israel's story is that they thought USS Liberty was an Egyptian ship and therefore a legitimate target of war.
> 
> "Were that true, there would be no reason to attack a supposedly Egyptian ship with unmarked aircraft! The only possible reason to use unmarked aircraft to attack the ship is that Israel knew it was an American ship and intended to sink it, then to blame the attack on Egypt."
> 
> U.S.S. Liberty - What Really Happened Wiki
> 
> Try harder, Pussy.
> 
> 
> 
> Curious George the Islamist monkey is ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGED over the USS Liberty, but USS Cole, Marine Baracks, and over 16,000 acts of Islamic terror since 9-11, including some on Americans?  Eh, who cares.  No Jews involved.  No Jews, no juice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> sheesh...you have a one track mind...
> 
> perhaps, just perhaps, he is as angry about how the incident was handled as much as he is about the incident itself, and that is fair...to seek the justice these dead men deserve.
> 
> stop trying to divert and use other dead american sailors and marines to change the focus. god, these are people who put their lives on the line for you everyday but to you they are nothing but fodder.
> 
> act like an american for once instead of putting israel first. it was not a case of mistaken identity. hours of observation. a prolonged attack. torpedo boats strafing the hull.  what the hell do you think..."uh, there's a shp out there about five klics. bad guys, let's strafe it with a fifty cal." you get close, even with a .50, about 200 meters.
> 
> *GTR5*
> 
> just get real.
Click to expand...


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _Why did the Heroic Hebrews fly unmarked jets, ... ?_


Jihadi-moni told leutenant Painter to fly them around, maybe? Sheets of paper, folding, toss, airborne. Eh?


----------



## Liability

reabhloideach says, "That fuckin' Israel.  When we politely ask them to just lie down and die, they REFUSE!  Those arrogant willful stubborn bastards!  Those Joooooz!"

And when he says it, being the fucking moron that he is, he actually means it!


----------



## irosie91

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The big error -----was that the US did not inform Israel that it had a ship in the area------there was a war going on.      The mistake created a tragedy --------now-----if you can prove that the US DID INFORM ISRAEL THAT THE SHIP WAS IN THE AREA----then you have a case.     Sorry------the US made a mistake------LOTS OF MISTAKES HAPPEN IN THE MILITARY      Attempts to make it a purposeful act are silly---------if it had been a purposeful act the ship would be at the bottom of the sea-----THERE WAS NOTHING TO STOP AN ALL OUT ATTACK
> 
> 
> 
> "*Israel acknowledged the following facts without qualification:*
> a. USS Liberty was an American ship, hence a neutral vis-à-vis the June
> 1967 war between Israel and its Arab neighbors.
> 8
> b. USS Liberty remained in international waters at all times on June 8, 1967
> 9
> .
> c. The attacking Israeli forces never made a positive identification of the nationality of USS Liberty before unleashing deadly force in their attack on
> the ship.
> 10
> At approximately 0600 hours (all times local) on the morning of June 8, 1967 an Israeli maritime reconnaissance aircraft observer reported seeing 'a US Navy cargo type
> ship,' just outside the coverage of the Israeli coastal radar defense net, bearing the hull
> markings 'GTR-5'.
> 11
> "This report, made to Israeli naval HQ, was also forwarded immediately to the Israeli navy intelligence directorate..."
> 
> "Throughout the remainder of the day prior to the attack, Israeli reconnaissance aircraft regularly flew out to USS Libertys position and orbited the ship before returning to
> their bases in Israel. A total of no fewer than eight (8) such flights were made.
> 13
> "At approximately 1050 hours, the naval observer from the early morning reconnaissance flight arrived at Israeli air force HQ and sat down with the air-naval liaison officer
> there. *The two officers consulted Janes Fighting Ships and learned that the ship reported earlier in the day was USS Liberty*, a United States Navy technical research
> ship..."
> 
> "In the instant matter, Israel freely acknowledged that USS Liberty was a neutral ship
> in international waters.
> 57
> "Israel also admitted that the attack was deliberate and made
> with the intent to sink the ship and crew.
> 58
> "Israel has thus explicitly admitted the essential elements of a violation of Article 1 of the Hague Convention on Naval Warfare. Israel
> has further admitted the essential elements required to establish a 'grave breach' as
> that term is defined in the Geneva Convention (1949).
> The Nürnberg War Crimes Tribunal established certain principles that were later
> adopted by all members of the United Nations."
> 
> http://www.gtr5.com/evidence/warcrimes.pdf
Click to expand...


  Again you have said nothing  george
                                                     "Israel has admitted that the ship was an american ship"        Of course it has so admitted----the ship was an american ship and Israel STOPPED bombing it as soon as that fact was confirmed      

                                                         "the ship stayed in international waters" 
Yeah?   so did the  BIZMARCK   

                                                 "the objective was to sink the ship"     right----and then
Israel realized that the ship was an US ship and did not sink it      If israel wanted to sink a US ship ---she would have sunk the USS Liberty   

                                                 "Israel had no DEFINITE ID ON THE SHIP"  when she started the attack"   right again George     All Israel knew is that it was not an Israeli ship---it was unidentified   and it failed to answer HAILS   ----which is a fact you and your jihadist friends left out       The claim that Israel "JAMMED"   the USS LIBERTY communications system turns out to be yet another jihadist lie

      you lose again    George          the tragic error is that the US did not inform Israel that it had sent a ship right smack into the middle of an arena of war


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Why did the Heroic Hebrews fly unmarked jets, ... ?_
> 
> 
> 
> Jihadi-moni told leutenant Painter to fly them around, maybe? Sheets of paper, folding, toss, airborne. Eh?
Click to expand...

"Throughout the remainder of the day prior to the attack, Israeli reconnaissance aircraft regularly flew out to USS Liberty's position and orbited the ship before returning to their bases in Israel. 

"A total of no fewer than eight (8) such flights were made.[13]

"At approximately 1050 hours, the naval observer from the early morning reconnaissance flight arrived at Israeli air force HQ and sat down with the air-naval liaison officer there. *The two officers consulted Jane's Fighting Ships and learned that the ship reported earlier in the day was USS Liberty*, a United States Navy technical research ship."

Stop hating, drivel.
Man-up and admit your mistakes.

USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events


----------



## irosie91

Have you ever served in the military   george?      I have----in fact I was involved in ---INVESTIGATIONS RELATED TO INJURIES---------sustained in war-------and----in general --as in training  etc etc            The claim of a sailor UNDER FIRE as to the INTENTION of the people doing the shooting-------is-----I can assure you------not reliable      No one hit with a bomb says    I LOVE THAT GUY ANYWAY---IT WAS A MISTAKE       No one hit by a car says that either


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"USS Liberty sailors report that Israel attacked the Liberty using unmarked aircraft. This one observation tends to prove Israel knew exactly who they were attacking. Israel's story is that they thought USS Liberty was an Egyptian ship and therefore a legitimate target of war._
> 
> 
> 
> Leutenant Painter is a little cteepy liah. According to the testimony of Signalman Russell David the latter saw israeli insignia on the attacking craft and reported that to the Cap. Dooh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Would that be Signalman Russell "Star of" David, drivel? How many of your neighbors have you murdered today?_
Click to expand...

Oh! All-predictable drivel-rage and no argument! We win, of course. On the sidenote, though, what leutenant Painter was able to "identify" or "misidentify" from below decks was batman.


----------



## sealadaigh

Liability said:


> reabhloideach says, "That fuckin' Israel.  When we politely ask them to just lie down and die, they REFUSE!  Those arrogant willful stubborn bastards!  Those Joooooz!"
> 
> And when he says it, being the fucking moron that he is, he actually means it!



LOL...i seem to have a knack for bringing out the hysteria and desperation of the zionists.

now you have a nice day...oh...and if you go out in the sun, don't forgey to wear your bonnet.


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Why did the Heroic Hebrews fly unmarked jets, ... ?_
> 
> 
> 
> Jihadi-moni told leutenant Painter to fly them around, maybe? Sheets of paper, folding, toss, airborne. Eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _"Throughout the remainder of the day prior to the attack, Israeli reconnaissance aircraft regularly flew out to USS Liberty's position and orbited the ship before returning to their bases in Israel._
Click to expand...

Holy batman! Marked jets! What happened to the "unmarked" batmen?


----------



## georgephillip

irosie91 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The big error -----was that the US did not inform Israel that it had a ship in the area------there was a war going on.      The mistake created a tragedy --------now-----if you can prove that the US DID INFORM ISRAEL THAT THE SHIP WAS IN THE AREA----then you have a case.     Sorry------the US made a mistake------LOTS OF MISTAKES HAPPEN IN THE MILITARY      Attempts to make it a purposeful act are silly---------if it had been a purposeful act the ship would be at the bottom of the sea-----THERE WAS NOTHING TO STOP AN ALL OUT ATTACK
> 
> 
> 
> "*Israel acknowledged the following facts without qualification:*
> a. USS Liberty was an American ship, hence a neutral vis-à-vis the June
> 1967 war between Israel and its Arab neighbors.
> 8
> b. USS Liberty remained in international waters at all times on June 8, 1967
> 9
> .
> c. The attacking Israeli forces never made a positive identification of the nationality of USS Liberty before unleashing deadly force in their attack on
> the ship.
> 10
> At approximately 0600 hours (all times local) on the morning of June 8, 1967 an Israeli maritime reconnaissance aircraft observer reported seeing 'a US Navy cargo type
> ship,' just outside the coverage of the Israeli coastal radar defense net, bearing the hull
> markings 'GTR-5'.
> 11
> "This report, made to Israeli naval HQ, was also forwarded immediately to the Israeli navy intelligence directorate..."
> 
> "Throughout the remainder of the day prior to the attack, Israeli reconnaissance aircraft regularly flew out to USS Libertys position and orbited the ship before returning to
> their bases in Israel. A total of no fewer than eight (8) such flights were made.
> 13
> "At approximately 1050 hours, the naval observer from the early morning reconnaissance flight arrived at Israeli air force HQ and sat down with the air-naval liaison officer
> there. *The two officers consulted Janes Fighting Ships and learned that the ship reported earlier in the day was USS Liberty*, a United States Navy technical research
> ship..."
> 
> "In the instant matter, Israel freely acknowledged that USS Liberty was a neutral ship
> in international waters.
> 57
> "Israel also admitted that the attack was deliberate and made
> with the intent to sink the ship and crew.
> 58
> "Israel has thus explicitly admitted the essential elements of a violation of Article 1 of the Hague Convention on Naval Warfare. Israel
> has further admitted the essential elements required to establish a 'grave breach' as
> that term is defined in the Geneva Convention (1949).
> The Nürnberg War Crimes Tribunal established certain principles that were later
> adopted by all members of the United Nations."
> 
> http://www.gtr5.com/evidence/warcrimes.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again you have said nothing  george
> "Israel has admitted that the ship was an american ship"        Of course it has so admitted----the ship was an american ship and Israel STOPPED bombing it as soon as that fact was confirmed
> 
> "the ship stayed in international waters"
> Yeah?   so did the  BIZMARCK
> 
> "the objective was to sink the ship"     right----and then
> Israel realized that the ship was an US ship and did not sink it      If israel wanted to sink a US ship ---she would have sunk the USS Liberty
> 
> "Israel had no DEFINITE ID ON THE SHIP"  when she started the attack"   right again George     All Israel knew is that it was not an Israeli ship---it was unidentified   and it failed to answer HAILS   ----which is a fact you and your jihadist friends left out       The claim that Israel "JAMMED"   the USS LIBERTY communications system turns out to be yet another jihadist lie
> 
> you lose again    George          the tragic error is that the US did not inform Israel that it had sent a ship right smack into the middle of an arena of war
Click to expand...

*You're on the wrong side of History on this one, Hasbara.*

Israel knew Liberty was a US ship three hours before your unmarked jets began their attack:

"Throughout the remainder of the day prior to the attack, Israeli reconnaissance aircraft regularly flew out to USS Liberty's position and orbited the ship before returning to their bases in Israel. A total of no fewer than eight (8) such flights were made.[13]

"At approximately 1050 hours, the naval observer from the early morning reconnaissance flight arrived at Israeli air force HQ and sat down with the air-naval liaison officer there. The two officers consulted Jane's Fighting Ships and *learned that the ship reported earlier in the day was USS Liberty*, a United States Navy technical research ship..."

"At 1400 hours, while approximately 17 miles off the Gaza coast, USS Liberty's crew observed three surface radar contacts closing with their position at high speed. A few moments later, the bridge radar crew observed high speed aircraft passing over the surface returns on the same heading.[16]

"Within a few short moments, and without any warning, Israeli fighter aircraft launched a rocket attack on USS Liberty. The aircraft made repeated firing passes, attacking USS Liberty with rockets and their internal cannons. After the first flight of fighter aircraft had exhausted their ordnance, subsequent flights of Israeli fighter aircraft continued to prosecute the attack with rockets, cannon fire, and napalm."

USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events

Israel didn't STOP the bombing until the heroic torpedo boats arrived.

After firing five torpedoes (4 misses) the three surface craft raked _Liberty's_ decks with thousands of .50 caliber rounds. Israel broke off that attack when the Sixth Fleet radioed in the clear that help was on the way.

BTW, the US doesn't ask permission to sail her military ships in international waters.
Once again, Jews are just not that special.


----------



## Roudy

reabhloideach said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Curious George the Islamist monkey is ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGED over the USS Liberty, but USS Cole, Marine Baracks, and over 16,000 acts of Islamic terror since 9-11, including some on Americans?  Eh, who cares.  No Jews involved.  No Jews, no juice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sheesh...you have a one track mind...
> 
> perhaps, just perhaps, he is as angry about how the incident was handled as much as he is about the incident itself, and that is fair...to seek the justice these dead men deserve.
> 
> stop trying to divert and use other dead american sailors and marines to change the focus. god, these are people who put their lives on the line for you everyday but to you they are nothing but fodder.
> 
> act like an american for once instead of putting israel first. it was not a case of mistaken identity. hours of observation. a prolonged attack. torpedo boats strafing the hull.  what the hell do you think..."uh, there's a shp out there about five klics. bad guys, let's strafe it with a fifty cal." you get close, even with a .50, about 200 meters.
> 
> *GTR5*
> 
> just get real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah shadap!  All I see is you Jew haters putting Islam and terrorists in front of America.
Click to expand...


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "*Israel acknowledged the following facts without qualification:*
> a. USS Liberty was an American ship, hence a neutral vis-à-vis the June
> 1967 war between Israel and its Arab neighbors.
> 8
> b. USS Liberty remained in international waters at all times on June 8, 1967
> 9
> .
> c. The attacking Israeli forces never made a positive identification of the nationality of USS Liberty before unleashing deadly force in their attack on
> the ship.
> 10
> At approximately 0600 hours (all times local) on the morning of June 8, 1967 an Israeli maritime reconnaissance aircraft observer reported seeing 'a US Navy cargo type
> ship,' just outside the coverage of the Israeli coastal radar defense net, bearing the hull
> markings 'GTR-5'.
> 11
> "This report, made to Israeli naval HQ, was also forwarded immediately to the Israeli navy intelligence directorate..."
> 
> "Throughout the remainder of the day prior to the attack, Israeli reconnaissance aircraft regularly flew out to USS Libertys position and orbited the ship before returning to
> their bases in Israel. A total of no fewer than eight (8) such flights were made.
> 13
> "At approximately 1050 hours, the naval observer from the early morning reconnaissance flight arrived at Israeli air force HQ and sat down with the air-naval liaison officer
> there. *The two officers consulted Janes Fighting Ships and learned that the ship reported earlier in the day was USS Liberty*, a United States Navy technical research
> ship..."
> 
> "In the instant matter, Israel freely acknowledged that USS Liberty was a neutral ship
> in international waters.
> 57
> "Israel also admitted that the attack was deliberate and made
> with the intent to sink the ship and crew.
> 58
> "Israel has thus explicitly admitted the essential elements of a violation of Article 1 of the Hague Convention on Naval Warfare. Israel
> has further admitted the essential elements required to establish a 'grave breach' as
> that term is defined in the Geneva Convention (1949).
> The Nürnberg War Crimes Tribunal established certain principles that were later
> adopted by all members of the United Nations."
> 
> http://www.gtr5.com/evidence/warcrimes.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again you have said nothing  george
> "Israel has admitted that the ship was an american ship"        Of course it has so admitted----the ship was an american ship and Israel STOPPED bombing it as soon as that fact was confirmed
> 
> "the ship stayed in international waters"
> Yeah?   so did the  BIZMARCK
> 
> "the objective was to sink the ship"     right----and then
> Israel realized that the ship was an US ship and did not sink it      If israel wanted to sink a US ship ---she would have sunk the USS Liberty
> 
> "Israel had no DEFINITE ID ON THE SHIP"  when she started the attack"   right again George     All Israel knew is that it was not an Israeli ship---it was unidentified   and it failed to answer HAILS   ----which is a fact you and your jihadist friends left out       The claim that Israel "JAMMED"   the USS LIBERTY communications system turns out to be yet another jihadist lie
> 
> you lose again    George          the tragic error is that the US did not inform Israel that it had sent a ship right smack into the middle of an arena of war
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *You're on the wrong side of History on this one, Hasbara.*
> 
> Israel knew Liberty was a US ship three hours before your unmarked jets began their attack:
> 
> "Throughout the remainder of the day prior to the attack, Israeli reconnaissance aircraft regularly flew out to USS Liberty's position and orbited the ship before returning to their bases in Israel. A total of no fewer than eight (8) such flights were made.[13]
> 
> "At approximately 1050 hours, the naval observer from the early morning reconnaissance flight arrived at Israeli air force HQ and sat down with the air-naval liaison officer there. The two officers consulted Jane's Fighting Ships and *learned that the ship reported earlier in the day was USS Liberty*, a United States Navy technical research ship..."
> 
> "At 1400 hours, while approximately 17 miles off the Gaza coast, USS Liberty's crew observed three surface radar contacts closing with their position at high speed. A few moments later, the bridge radar crew observed high speed aircraft passing over the surface returns on the same heading.[16]
> 
> "Within a few short moments, and without any warning, Israeli fighter aircraft launched a rocket attack on USS Liberty. The aircraft made repeated firing passes, attacking USS Liberty with rockets and their internal cannons. After the first flight of fighter aircraft had exhausted their ordnance, subsequent flights of Israeli fighter aircraft continued to prosecute the attack with rockets, cannon fire, and napalm."
> 
> USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events
> 
> Israel didn't STOP the bombing until the heroic torpedo boats arrived.
> 
> After firing five torpedoes (4 misses) the three surface craft raked _Liberty's_ decks with thousands of .50 caliber rounds. Israel broke off that attack when the Sixth Fleet radioed in the clear that help was on the way.
> 
> BTW, the US doesn't ask permission to sail her military ships in international waters.
> Once again, Jews are just not that special.
Click to expand...

Hey Abdul, that's what you're supposed to do, when you sink a ship. duh!


----------



## Roudy

irosie91 said:


> Have you ever served in the military   george?      I have----in fact I was involved in ---INVESTIGATIONS RELATED TO INJURIES---------sustained in war-------and----in general --as in training  etc etc            The claim of a sailor UNDER FIRE as to the INTENTION of the people doing the shooting-------is-----I can assure you------not reliable      No one hit with a bomb says    I LOVE THAT GUY ANYWAY---IT WAS A MISTAKE       No one hit by a car says that either


I think George specialized in "bathroom stall services" while in the military. His sucking noises could be heard all over the camp.


----------



## Roudy

Liability said:


> reabhloideach says, "That fuckin' Israel.  When we politely ask them to just lie down and die, they REFUSE!  Those arrogant willful stubborn bastards!  Those Joooooz!"
> 
> And when he says it, being the fucking moron that he is, he actually means it!


Hah! That was both funny and correct!


----------



## Billo_Really

georgephillip said:


> After firing five torpedoes (4 misses) the three surface craft raked _Liberty's_ decks with thousands of .50 caliber rounds. Israel broke off that attack when the Sixth Fleet radioed in the clear that help was on the way.


The only thing that saved Israel's ass from a severe ass kicking, was that LBJ thought it might have been the Soviets who launched the attack.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Hey Abdul, that's what you're supposed to do, when you sink a ship. duh!


If I was president then, I wouldn't of called the F4's back.


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _Israel knew Liberty was a US ship three hours before your unmarked jets began their attack:_


Unmarked martian batmen conspiracy, of course. Oh, and  bth., leutenant Ennes wrote in his book "McGonagle must have been mistaken about sighting the Israeli flag at this point in the attack. For one thing, it would have been practically impossible to identify a tiny and wildly fluttering Star of David a mile away, particularly since any flags displayed by the torpedo boats would have streamed back, away from McGonagle and out of his line of sight.". Hilarious. When are those individuals getting their story straight?


----------



## georgephillip

irosie91 said:


> Have you ever served in the military   george?      I have----in fact I was involved in ---INVESTIGATIONS RELATED TO INJURIES---------sustained in war-------and----in general --as in training  etc etc            The claim of a sailor UNDER FIRE as to the INTENTION of the people doing the shooting-------is-----I can assure you------not reliable      No one hit with a bomb says    I LOVE THAT GUY ANYWAY---IT WAS A MISTAKE       No one hit by a car says that either


Which military did you serve in, rosie?
My "service" consisted of ten days in the USAF before escaping with a medical discharge.

At least eight Israeli reconnaissance flights orbited Liberty prior the the initial attack.
One plane came so close its pilot and Liberty's crew exchanged waves.
There is not a single Liberty survivor who doubts the attack was deliberate.

What would you infer if you watched your attackers machine-gun inflatable life rafts?


----------



## georgephillip

loinboy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> After firing five torpedoes (4 misses) the three surface craft raked _Liberty's_ decks with thousands of .50 caliber rounds. Israel broke off that attack when the Sixth Fleet radioed in the clear that help was on the way.
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing that saved Israel's ass from a severe ass kicking, was that LBJ thought it might have been the Soviets who launched the attack.
Click to expand...

Unless LBJ ordered the attack.
Suppose_ Liberty_ had gone down with all hands and Egypt got the blame?
Would we not own Egypt's oil today...


----------



## Billo_Really

georgephillip said:


> Unless LBJ ordered the attack.
> Suppose_ Liberty_ had gone down with all hands and Egypt got the blame?
> Would we not own Egypt's oil today...


You think LBJ would really do that?

I mean, it's not like the Gulf of Tonkin.


----------



## sealadaigh

drtywhtboy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drtywhtboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Israel gets rockets because they gave the land over to a bunch of terrorist, and thus they should have known better? Well, let me tell you what's about to happen, there is going to be a renewed war in Israel; Syria, Jordan and Lebanon are going to attack Israel, and one of them, Syria, is going to use Chemical weapons on Tel Aviv...after that, you can kiss Damascus good-bye...I promise you that this battle will take place, and the aftermath will be that Israel will be in bad shape, but her borders will connect to Iraq and Georgia.
> 
> The Iranians are still employing Syria as her stalking horse, and they will find out that its going to take Russia and China, who back every play made by Iran, and then the world will be taken into World War 3. Do you honestly think that anybody on the planet wants that? I know Israel don't...however, your boy Ahmadinejad is trying to start it with this 12th Imam business...I don't think any of you want this either, so why condemn the only nation in the world that is under constant attack by a another people who are neither refugees or prisoners...
> 
> Oh yea, one other thing....You can stop with this bigot crap too, *my family is only 3 generations removed from the Western indian reservations,* we are bigoted to no one...even in your twisted little mind
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOLOL...yeah, sure. you are a damn liar if ever there was one. i have never ever heard a native american say "Western indian reservations". every single indian i know, and i know plenty (i actually had a son who went to Wa He Lut indian school and i was invited to many events by many tribes and was made a lifetime member in AIM and was even busted and gaoled for demonstrating for treaty rights)  identifies their tribe and the name of the reservation...like "my family is olala lakota from the pine ridge reservation in south dakota"...something like that. look, chief, i'm irish but my son is part cowlitz and has the card to prove it so don't try to run your game on me. you are a goddammed ffriggin' liar. besides that, you're from alabama...and stupid as all hell.
> 
> and who the hell says indians can't be bigoted anyway. someone would have to be pretty riggin' stupid to say something like that. that's like saying blacks can't be bigoted, or jews, or asians, or the irish or italians or, heaven forfend, those damn dirty ayrabs...huh?
> 
> you are a friggin' poor white trash, bible thumpin', snake charmin' evangelical if ever there was one and you just described one of the many armeggedon scenes that comes before a rapture where some white boy god sucks your eternally fooked soul up to his "no jews, negroes, or catholics need apply" land of milk and peanut butter and jelly sandwichs.
> 
> what the heck is it about israel supporters that make them lie so much. (i'm cuttin' hoss out of that deal because i don't like a lot of things he says, but i haven't really heard him deliberately tell a factual lie.)[
> 
> First off, I'm  not a liar. Second, yes I am a evangelical Christian, third and most importantly I don't play with snakes. and the rest well, your just ignorant and I can't help you with that...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> look, if i can suss out that you are an evangelical from your post, i can also suss out that you an american indian from a wetern resercation....
> 
> don't lie, first of all...
> 
> but...
> 
> if you do lie, at least make it a good one and don't assume the person you are telling it to is stupid.
> 
> i know tons of indian peoploe, tons of them, and am good friends with them and we snoke and joke and respect each others history. you may want to pay attention to what i told you...but also, you really may want to check the history of native american and evangelical christians interaction. any real native american who claims to be an evangelical christian is going to set off red flags everywhere.
> 
> so there, chief. alabama huh? are you like in one of the five civilised tribes? don't even answer. i'm just screwing with you. did you know the choctaws, right off their own trail of tears,  sent the irish $170.00 for relif when the english were starving them. i make sure, ever since i had a job, to donate to indian charities, $170 back.
> 
> sinte luta out, brother. i get around.
Click to expand...


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jihadi-moni told leutenant Painter to fly them around, maybe? Sheets of paper, folding, toss, airborne. Eh?
> 
> 
> 
> _"Throughout the remainder of the day prior to the attack, Israeli reconnaissance aircraft regularly flew out to USS Liberty's position and orbited the ship before returning to their bases in Israel._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy batman! Marked jets! What happened to the "unmarked" batmen?
Click to expand...

You're going to have to try a little harder to appear confused, drivel.

"Throughout the remainder of the day prior to the attack, *(marked)* Israeli reconnaissance aircraft regularly flew out to USS Liberty's position and orbited the ship before returning to their bases in Israel. A total of no fewer than eight (8) such flights were made.[13]

"At approximately 1050 hours, the naval observer from the early morning reconnaissance flight arrived at Israeli air force HQ and sat down with the air-naval liaison officer there. The two officers consulted Jane's Fighting Ships and learned that the ship reported earlier in the day was USS Liberty, a United States Navy technical research ship...

Stay tuned, drivel.
Here comes the heroic part...

"At 1400 hours, while approximately 17 miles off the Gaza coast, USS Liberty's crew observed three surface radar contacts closing with their position at high speed. A few moments later, the bridge radar crew observed high speed aircraft passing over the surface returns on the same heading.[16]

Within a few short moments, and without any warning, (*unmarked*) Israeli fighter aircraft launched a rocket attack on USS Liberty. The aircraft made repeated firing passes, attacking USS Liberty with rockets and their internal cannons. After the first flight of fighter aircraft had exhausted their ordnance, subsequent flights of (*marked?*) Israeli fighter aircraft continued to prosecute the attack with rockets, cannon fire, and napalm."

USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events


----------



## georgephillip

loinboy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless LBJ ordered the attack.
> Suppose_ Liberty_ had gone down with all hands and Egypt got the blame?
> Would we not own Egypt's oil today...
> 
> 
> 
> You think LBJ would really do that?
> 
> I mean, it's not like the Gulf of Tonkin.
Click to expand...

Israel did not enjoy anything like the support it has in the US Congress today in 1967.
I doubt if the thought of attacking a US naval vessel would've entered Israeli minds at that time.

I believe the attack was an Operation Northwoods knock-off:

"Operation Northwoods was a series of false-flag proposals that originated in 1962 within the United States government, and which the Kennedy administration rejected. [2] The proposals called for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), or other operatives, to commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities and elsewhere. These acts of terrorism were to be blamed on Cuba in order to create public support for a war against that nation, which had recently become communist under Fidel Castro."

If _Liberty_ had gone down that summer of '67 with all hands lost, and Egypt took the blame, 90% of Americans alive at that time would've demanded some serious payback with no questions asked.


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _What would you infer if you watched your attackers machine-gun inflatable life rafts?_


We would infer that it's an inflatable bullshitt, of course. That same unmarked batmen spotter lt. Painter testified that most of the life rafts were damaged and burning after jet attacks on the ship and the crew dumped many of them overboard. Why won't those individuals get their tales straight?


----------



## drtywhtboy

reabhloideach said:


> drtywhtboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOLOL...yeah, sure. you are a damn liar if ever there was one. i have never ever heard a native american say "Western indian reservations". every single indian i know, and i know plenty (i actually had a son who went to Wa He Lut indian school and i was invited to many events by many tribes and was made a lifetime member in AIM and was even busted and gaoled for demonstrating for treaty rights)  identifies their tribe and the name of the reservation...like "my family is olala lakota from the pine ridge reservation in south dakota"...something like that. look, chief, i'm irish but my son is part cowlitz and has the card to prove it so don't try to run your game on me. you are a goddammed ffriggin' liar. besides that, you're from alabama...and stupid as all hell.
> 
> and who the hell says indians can't be bigoted anyway. someone would have to be pretty riggin' stupid to say something like that. that's like saying blacks can't be bigoted, or jews, or asians, or the irish or italians or, heaven forfend, those damn dirty ayrabs...huh?
> 
> you are a friggin' poor white trash, bible thumpin', snake charmin' evangelical if ever there was one and you just described one of the many armeggedon scenes that comes before a rapture where some white boy god sucks your eternally fooked soul up to his "no jews, negroes, or catholics need apply" land of milk and peanut butter and jelly sandwichs.
> 
> what the heck is it about israel supporters that make them lie so much. (i'm cuttin' hoss out of that deal because i don't like a lot of things he says, but i haven't really heard him deliberately tell a factual lie.)[
> 
> First off, I'm  not a liar. Second, yes I am a evangelical Christian, third and most importantly I don't play with snakes. and the rest well, your just ignorant and I can't help you with that...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> look, if i can suss out that you are an evangelical from your post, i can also suss out that you an american indian from a wetern resercation....
> 
> don't lie, first of all...
> 
> but...
> 
> if you do lie, at least make it a good one and don't assume the person you are telling it to is stupid.
> 
> i know tons of indian peoploe, tons of them, and am good friends with them and we snoke and joke and respect each others history. you may want to pay attention to what i told you...but also, you really may want to check the history of native american and evangelical christians interaction. any real native american who claims to be an evangelical christian is going to set off red flags everywhere.
> 
> so there, chief. alabama huh? are you like in one of the five civilised tribes? don't even answer. i'm just screwing with you. did you know the choctaws, right off their own trail of tears,  sent the irish $170.00 for relif when the english were starving them. i make sure, ever since i had a job, to donate to indian charities, $170 back.
> 
> sinte luta out, brother. i get around.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I chose to ignore you at first, but now your just pissing me off. I am Cherokee, my family walked the trail of tears into Oklahoma Territory (where I  was born). My great grandfather was the last of us to live on a reservation. Have I ever seen it? Yes. Its called Concho its also the Sac/Fox reservation. Have I ever lived there? No. Neither has my father, or his father. I don't give two shakes what you know or who you know.  But know this, I don't lie. Especially to the likes of someone like you, who all they can do is sit and snip from the seat of her pants. Oh, did you suss out that I am veteran too? Hmm, guess your spidey senses failed you there to.
> So if I were you, i'd stick to helping terrorist or become one yourself... Oh and I have no illusions that you "get around"...So if you get off your knees you could get around quicker..
> 
> 
> Oh, 1 more thing...BUY A DICTIONARY!!!  I trying to read what your putting up there, and I have to be half psychic to understand what your saying..
Click to expand...


----------



## sealadaigh

Intense said:


> A Lot of specifics in regard to the firing on the USS Liberty. As I recall, there was plenty of blame to go around between Israel and Our Own Joint Chief's of Staff. I believe there was even an Israeli Pilot, Court-marshaled for refusing to fire on The Liberty. The Flag was spotted, The Ship was Spying, using Satellite Dish Technology, bouncing the signal off of the Moon, the Joint Chiefs would not admit that the Ship was even there, I remember something about a US Sub witnessing the whole thing, the first squadron of Jets assigned to intercept had to be recalled to their Carrier, because they were carrying Nukes. It was a total cluster fuck, all the way around. Israel was under attack at the time, so timing made everything worse.



i think the tiger or the big orange letters might be scaring people off...LOL.

some of the things just do not make sense. for one, i have never seen a naval vessel not fly the flag. secondly though, even if for some very odd reason they were not flying it that day, if they are under attack, there would be no reason in the world why they wouldn't raise it.

then we have the tattered flag. now, i don't know about israelis, but if i am shooting at something, i am looking at it.

it was a clear june day.

and that is just a little of it. i've seen cluster fucks before but nothing as incredulous as this.

but even if every single thing the israelis and those who believe it is a case of mistaken identity say is true, then why aren't they sayng "ok. let's do a full congressional imvestigation and put the matter to rest." the other investigations were cursory and there was a lot of rubber stamping going on but even if they were squeaky clean, a full congressional investigation was in order. the victims deserved that.

now, i know it won't put the matter to rest completely, but it will in most peoples eyes, to include, i think, a lot of the survivors. such an investigation has been done on every single similarr incident.

but even beyond that, and this is what really makes me furiously angry. these are dead american sailors and they deserve to be memorialised, and when a library was being built to do just that, jewsish people led a protest agaondt it, almost as though they thought they could wash it away. then, they smeared the survivors for telling what happened, calling them anti-semites.

and even here...


----------



## sealadaigh

drtywhtboy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drtywhtboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> look, if i can suss out that you are an evangelical from your post, i can also suss out that you an american indian from a wetern resercation....
> 
> don't lie, first of all...
> 
> but...
> 
> if you do lie, at least make it a good one and don't assume the person you are telling it to is stupid.
> 
> i know tons of indian peoploe, tons of them, and am good friends with them and we snoke and joke and respect each others history. you may want to pay attention to what i told you...but also, you really may want to check the history of native american and evangelical christians interaction. any real native american who claims to be an evangelical christian is going to set off red flags everywhere.
> 
> so there, chief. alabama huh? are you like in one of the five civilised tribes? don't even answer. i'm just screwing with you. did you know the choctaws, right off their own trail of tears,  sent the irish $170.00 for relif when the english were starving them. i make sure, ever since i had a job, to donate to indian charities, $170 back.
> 
> sinte luta out, brother. i get around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose to ignore you at first, but now your just pissing me off. I am Cherokee, my family walked the trail of tears into Oklahoma Territory (where I  was born). My great grandfather was the last of us to live on a reservation. Have I ever seen it? Yes. Its called Concho its also the Sac/Fox reservation. Have I ever lived there? No. Neither has my father, or his father. I don't give two shakes what you know or who you know.  But know this, I don't lie. Especially to the likes of someone like you, who all they can do is sit and snip from the seat of her pants. Oh, did you suss out that I am veteran too? Hmm, guess your spidey senses failed you there to.
> So if I were you, i'd stick to helping terrorist or become one yourself... Oh and I have no illusions that you "get around"...So if you get off your knees you could get around quicker..
> 
> 
> Oh, 1 more thing...BUY A DICTIONARY!!!  I trying to read what your putting up there, and I have to be half psychic to understand what your saying..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> lol...pretty good. take nebraska out of thee pic and ya mighta had me.
> 
> send it back to re-write.
> 
> i think i had one typo.
Click to expand...


----------



## sealadaigh

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"Throughout the remainder of the day prior to the attack, Israeli reconnaissance aircraft regularly flew out to USS Liberty's position and orbited the ship before returning to their bases in Israel._
> 
> 
> 
> Holy batman! Marked jets! What happened to the "unmarked" batmen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're going to have to try a little harder to appear confused, drivel.
> 
> "Throughout the remainder of the day prior to the attack, *(marked)* Israeli reconnaissance aircraft regularly flew out to USS Liberty's position and orbited the ship before returning to their bases in Israel. A total of no fewer than eight (8) such flights were made.[13]
> 
> "At approximately 1050 hours, the naval observer from the early morning reconnaissance flight arrived at Israeli air force HQ and sat down with the air-naval liaison officer there. The two officers consulted Jane's Fighting Ships and learned that the ship reported earlier in the day was USS Liberty, a United States Navy technical research ship...
> 
> Stay tuned, drivel.
> Here comes the heroic part...
> 
> "At 1400 hours, while approximately 17 miles off the Gaza coast, USS Liberty's crew observed three surface radar contacts closing with their position at high speed. A few moments later, the bridge radar crew observed high speed aircraft passing over the surface returns on the same heading.[16]
> 
> Within a few short moments, and without any warning, (*unmarked*) Israeli fighter aircraft launched a rocket attack on USS Liberty. The aircraft made repeated firing passes, attacking USS Liberty with rockets and their internal cannons. After the first flight of fighter aircraft had exhausted their ordnance, subsequent flights of (*marked?*) Israeli fighter aircraft continued to prosecute the attack with rockets, cannon fire, and napalm."
> 
> USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events
Click to expand...


ok, i'm mixed up. the USS Liberty is shelling israeli shore positions from 17 miles out...according to the israelis.


----------



## drtywhtboy

reabhloideach said:


> drtywhtboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> I chose to ignore you at first, but now your just pissing me off. I am Cherokee, my family walked the trail of tears into Oklahoma Territory (where I  was born). My great grandfather was the last of us to live on a reservation. Have I ever seen it? Yes. Its called Concho its also the Sac/Fox reservation. Have I ever lived there? No. Neither has my father, or his father. I don't give two shakes what you know or who you know.  But know this, I don't lie. Especially to the likes of someone like you, who all they can do is sit and snip from the seat of her pants. Oh, did you suss out that I am veteran too? Hmm, guess your spidey senses failed you there to.
> So if I were you, i'd stick to helping terrorist or become one yourself... Oh and I have no illusions that you "get around"...So if you get off your knees you could get around quicker..
> 
> 
> Oh, 1 more thing...BUY A DICTIONARY!!!  I trying to read what your putting up there, and I have to be half psychic to understand what your saying..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol...pretty good. take nebraska out of thee pic and ya mighta had me.
> 
> send it back to re-write.
> 
> i think i had one typo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1 Typo.... Can you not count either?
> I think you just need to crawl off somewhere, take refresher course in elementary spelling.  When you learn to talk, walk, type and count, then come see me...
> 
> BTW: What was your role in the Georgia Guidestones?
Click to expand...


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"Throughout the remainder of the day prior to the attack, Israeli reconnaissance aircraft regularly flew out to USS Liberty's position and orbited the ship before returning to their bases in Israel._
> 
> 
> 
> Holy batman! Marked jets! What happened to the "unmarked" batmen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Within a few short moments, and without any warning, (unmarked) Israeli fighter aircraft launched a rocket attack on USS Liberty. The aircraft made repeated firing passes, attacking USS Liberty with rockets and their internal cannons. After the first flight of fighter aircraft had exhausted their ordnance, subsequent flights of (marked?) Israeli fighter aircraft continued to prosecute the attack with rockets, cannon fire, and napalm."_
Click to expand...

Mucho LSD went into it, indeed.
At 1645, 14 June 1967, Cpt McGonagle said "There are probably many reasons why the aircraft were unidentified. One reason would be that the distance, and the speed at which the aircraft flew, was such that it was extremely difficult to make out any distinguishing characteristics by personnel on board who do not normally observe any jet aircraft in the area of the ship's operation. The ship normally steams on independent duty along the West Coast of Africa. These countries do not have sophisticated air forces with the possible exception of Angola. Angola does have some jet aircraft but they have been noted to fly over the ship only on one occasion to the Commanding Officer's personal knowledge, while the ship was at anchor in Luanda Harbor. An occasional piper cub or helicopter working an oil rig along the coast and infrequently commercial jet aircraft is about the extent of air activity observed by personnel aboard Liberty. A recognition manual for Israeli, UAR, aircraft and surface ships was not on board prior to proceeding to the area."
Record of Proceedings of a Court of Inquiry convened at London, England, by order of Commander in Chief U.S. Naval Forces Europe to inquire into the circumstances surrounding an armed attack on USS Liberty (AGTR-5) which occured at approximately 1230Z, 8 June 1967, while steaming in the vicinity of 31 deg 23'N Latitude 33 deg 25'E Longitude ordered on 10 June 1967.


----------



## sealadaigh

drtywhtboy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drtywhtboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol...pretty good. take nebraska out of thee pic and ya mighta had me.
> 
> send it back to re-write.
> 
> i think i had one typo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 Typo.... Can you not count either?
> I think you just need to crawl off somewhere, take refresher course in elementary spelling.  When you learn to talk, walk, type and count, then come see me...
> 
> BTW: What was your role in the Georgia Guidestones?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL...has anyone told you you would make a great clerk, what with your spelchek skills and all.
> 
> lessee now. here you are, a cherokee indian who is also a evangelical christian; and then, to top it off, you are an american vet who demeans and trash talks dead american sailors. lotta very strange anachronisms there, pard. i'm goona havta chalk some of your conditiom up to having the dirty double crosser gene. amyway, i guess that's the polite way of saying you're pullin' up a little lame in the veracity portion of the competition, and i got some real serious doubts about your odds on winning ms. congenielity, or even qualifying.
> 
> i think you can pull it out though in the talent competition. i have a plan. you thump snakes with the holy book of your choice, all the while spelling the names of invertebrate species in the linnaean classification. my fave is upogebia pugettensis, just cuz it got me laid by my neurophys prof. i remarked to her that it bore a remarkable resemblance to their southern cousin, callianassa californiensis and she got all wet and gooey...some girls, huh?. she was an LA lady.
Click to expand...


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> Have you ever served in the military   george?      I have----in fact I was involved in ---INVESTIGATIONS RELATED TO INJURIES---------sustained in war-------and----in general --as in training  etc etc            The claim of a sailor UNDER FIRE as to the INTENTION of the people doing the shooting-------is-----I can assure you------not reliable      No one hit with a bomb says    I LOVE THAT GUY ANYWAY---IT WAS A MISTAKE       No one hit by a car says that either



So you were too chicken to fight?


----------



## drtywhtboy

reabhloideach said:


> drtywhtboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1 Typo.... Can you not count either?
> I think you just need to crawl off somewhere, take refresher course in elementary spelling.  When you learn to talk, walk, type and count, then come see me...
> 
> BTW: What was your role in the Georgia Guidestones?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL...has anyone told you you would make a great clerk, what with your spelchek skills and all.
> 
> lessee now. here you are, a cherokee indian who is also a evangelical christian; and then, to top it off, you are an american vet who demeans and trash talks dead american sailors. lotta very strange anachronisms there, pard. i'm goona havta chalk some of your conditiom up to having the dirty double crosser gene. amyway, i guess that's the polite way of saying you're pullin' up a little lame in the veracity portion of the competition, and i got some real serious doubts about your odds on winning ms. congenielity, or even qualifying.
> 
> i think you can pull it out though in the talent competition. i have a plan. you thump snakes with the holy book of your choice, all the while spelling the names of invertebrate species in the linnaean classification. my fave is upogebia pugettensis, just cuz it got me laid by my neurophys prof. i remarked to her that it bore a remarkable resemblance to their southern cousin, callianassa californiensis and she got all wet and gooey...some girls, huh?. she was an LA lady.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ROFLOL..... Go away...I'll fight with someone who has a brain, and can handle themselves with some class and understanding...Ya, your a classless little girl who didn't get enough daddy time....So slither off, and don't come back....
Click to expand...


----------



## Intense

irosie91 said:


> There was no Israeli courtmartialed for refusing to fire on the  USS Liberty         see your doctor for your memory issues       In every military accident there is LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of -------blame to go around         For the record----there are LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of military accidents           not only is war dangerous-------anything military is dangerous



There was a Pilot Reprimanded, at the least. It is in the book.


----------



## Liability

reabhloideach said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach says, "That fuckin' Israel.  When we politely ask them to just lie down and die, they REFUSE!  Those arrogant willful stubborn bastards!  Those Joooooz!"
> 
> And when he says it, being the fucking moron that he is, he actually means it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL...i seem to have a knack for bringing out the hysteria and desperation of the zionists.
> 
> * * * *
Click to expand...


Nah.  You just have a knack for being a massive douche and proving it pretty much constantly.

In that regard, you do good work, though.


----------



## docmauser1

reabhloideach said:


> _has anyone ..._


Oh, bog off.


----------



## SAYIT

Liability said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach says, "That fuckin' Israel.  When we politely ask them to just lie down and die, they REFUSE!  Those arrogant willful stubborn bastards!  Those Joooooz!"
> 
> And when he says it, being the fucking moron that he is, he actually means it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL...i seem to have a knack for bringing out the hysteria and desperation of the zionists.
> 
> * * * *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah.  You just have a knack for being a massive douche and proving it pretty much constantly.
> In that regard, you do good work, though.
Click to expand...


Like it's his job but he's been the same jackass for years. 
Gotta give 'em credit for consistency.


----------



## irosie91

Hossfly said:


> Storm said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is only one nationality on the planet that is allowed to legally hold dual-American citizenship. ONLY Israelis can be citizens of both Israel and the United States! Hows that for favoritism, hubris, and political control?
> 
> What a bunch of controlled hypocrites we are in this country. And again, we see an example of how the International Jewish Crime Network has put a stranglehold on American politics.
> 
> Whens the last time you heard of a dual Mexican-American? How about a dual Russian-American? Where can I find a dual Filipino-American?
> 
> The answer is you cant. It is technically against U.S. law to hold dual citizenship. But Israel automatically grants citizenship to any Jew worldwide. All that is needed is proof of Jewish heritage. And Jewish lineage is determined on the maternal line. If your mother is Jewish then you are Jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh?
> 
> List of Dual Citizenship Countries | eHow.com
Click to expand...



    I am actually old enough to remember when the  Pro Jihadist pro baby throat slitting
gang came up with the lie  that ONLY JEWS CAN HOLD DUAL CITIZENSHIP      I lived in an area rife with nazis   ---in fact some old documents by their hero Adolf revealed that he consider THAT AREA---the place to land his troops.      Well---I was a child circa 1960 and I did pick up the nazi pamphlets when they came to my hand and DID READ THEM----that is about when the   DUAL CITIZENSHIP FOR JEWS ONLY   big lie came about      Since that time I have noticed that there are still IDIOTS who believe it     Sorry ---nazis----the fact is that any US citizen can have dual citizenship if  THE OTHER COUNTRY allows it    and many do.     LOTS AND LOTS -----but the surefire way to tell if a person is a nazi ----is if he believes or says that the law is good ONLY FOR JEWS     The word  DUALIE is use only by islamo nazis  ------many of whom themselves have DUAL CITIZENSHIP-------any Irish dualies out there?


----------



## irosie91

ima said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever served in the military   george?      I have----in fact I was involved in ---INVESTIGATIONS RELATED TO INJURIES---------sustained in war-------and----in general --as in training  etc etc            The claim of a sailor UNDER FIRE as to the INTENTION of the people doing the shooting-------is-----I can assure you------not reliable      No one hit with a bomb says    I LOVE THAT GUY ANYWAY---IT WAS A MISTAKE       No one hit by a car says that either
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you were too chicken to fight?
Click to expand...


I fought quite a bit------unfortunately I was in active duty during peace time and now I am too old.    Both my father and son served during war time.       why are you so jealous?


----------



## irosie91

Intense said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no Israeli courtmartialed for refusing to fire on the  USS Liberty         see your doctor for your memory issues       In every military accident there is LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of -------blame to go around         For the record----there are LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of military accidents           not only is war dangerous-------anything military is dangerous
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a Pilot Reprimanded, at the least. It is in the book.
Click to expand...


Reprimanded for what?     In the military you can be reprimanded for going out of doors without your hat on


----------



## Roudy

Liability said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach says, "That fuckin' Israel.  When we politely ask them to just lie down and die, they REFUSE!  Those arrogant willful stubborn bastards!  Those Joooooz!"
> 
> And when he says it, being the fucking moron that he is, he actually means it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL...i seem to have a knack for bringing out the hysteria and desperation of the zionists.
> 
> * * * *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah.  You just have a knack for being a massive douche and proving it pretty much constantly.
> 
> In that regard, you do good work, though.
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha...very well put indeed.


----------



## Roudy

loinboy said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Abdul, that's what you're supposed to do, when you sink a ship. duh!
> 
> 
> 
> If I was president then, I wouldn't of called the F4's back.
Click to expand...

But you're not, you're just your average ignorant dipshit.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> But you're not, you're just your average ignorant dipshit.


I'm not ignorant.  I'm like the Dylan song, _"I know my song well, before I start singing"_.  That's why you rarely ever debate me.  It's safer not to engage and just sit back and call me names.  Because the few times you tried, you had your head handed to you.

I am so good at debating, that I can take mine and beat yours; then turn around and take yours and beat mine.  It's best you stay with the ad hominem's.  You're out of your league if you even attempt to argue.

Now, if you think what I said is BS, then step up, pick a subject and let's go at it.  Unfortunately, I think we both know what your answer will be.

_Back to you..._


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _What would you infer if you watched your attackers machine-gun inflatable life rafts?_
> 
> 
> 
> We would infer that it's an inflatable bullshitt, of course. That same unmarked batmen spotter lt. Painter testified that most of the life rafts were damaged and burning after jet attacks on the ship and the crew dumped many of them overboard. Why won't those individuals get their tales straight?
Click to expand...

Better work on that "bat"-stroke, drivel.
The Jewish state is swirling the same racist drain as white South Africa.


----------



## Hossfly

loinboy said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you're not, you're just your average ignorant dipshit.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not ignorant.  I'm like the Dylan song, _"I know my song well, before I start singing"_.  That's why you rarely ever debate me.  It's safer not to engage and just sit back and call me names.  Because the few times you tried, you had your head handed to you.
> 
> I am so good at debating, that I can take mine and beat yours; then turn around and take yours and beat mine.  It's best you stay with the ad hominem's.  You're out of your league if you even attempt to argue.
> 
> Now, if you think what I said is BS, then step up, pick a subject and let's go at it.  Unfortunately, I think we both know what your answer will be.
> 
> _Back to you..._
Click to expand...

You sound like the Arab armies who get destroyed, claim victory and go back home to a hero's welcome. Heh heh!


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _What would you infer if you watched your attackers machine-gun inflatable life rafts?_
> 
> 
> 
> We would infer that it's an inflatable bullshitt, of course. That same unmarked batmen spotter lt. Painter testified that most of the life rafts were damaged and burning after jet attacks on the ship and the crew dumped many of them overboard. Why won't those individuals get their tales straight?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Better work on that "bat"-stroke, drivel.
> The Jewish state is swirling the same racist drain as white South Africa.
Click to expand...

Another un-educated twerp squeeks.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hossfly said:


> You sound like the Arab armies who get destroyed, claim victory and go back home to a hero's welcome. Heh heh!


And you sound like the greek army motto...

*"Never leave your buddy's behind!"*


----------



## georgephillip

Intense said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no Israeli courtmartialed for refusing to fire on the  USS Liberty         see your doctor for your memory issues       In every military accident there is LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of -------blame to go around         For the record----there are LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of military accidents           not only is war dangerous-------anything military is dangerous
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a Pilot Reprimanded, at the least. It is in the book.
Click to expand...

Was he reprimanded for refusing to fire on the US flag?


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We would infer that it's an inflatable bullshitt, of course. That same unmarked batmen spotter lt. Painter testified that most of the life rafts were damaged and burning after jet attacks on the ship and the crew dumped many of them overboard. Why won't those individuals get their tales straight?
> 
> 
> 
> Better work on that "bat"-stroke, drivel.
> The Jewish state is swirling the same racist drain as white South Africa.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another un-educated twerp squeeks.
Click to expand...

"Two recent Israeli High Court rulings follow a disturbing trend. On January 11, divided justices ruled 6 - 5 for Israel's Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law.

"It denies citizenship rights to Palestinians with Israeli spouses. Enacted in 2003 as temporary legislation, it was extended twice after its initial expiration date.

"The law empowers the interior minister to grant citizenship only if affected Palestinians identify strongly and cooperate with Israel. They must also contribute to national security. As a result, few qualify.

"In addition, it limits potential eligibility to Palestinian husbands 36 or older and Palestinian wives at least 26.

"A Qara village attorney called the decision a 'declaration of war on Israeli Arabs.' A mixed couple said the decision '*will lead to the expulsion of thousands of families from the country*.'

"The Palestinian wife of another mixed couple got temporary permit permission to live with her husband in Acre without legal rights extended Israeli citizens. Her husband, a Haifa University doctoral candidate, wasn't surprised by the ruling, saying:

"'*The decision is proof that one shouldn't have faith in the Israeli judicial system*. It is clear that the Supreme Court is influenced by the *wave of fascism and racism sweeping Israe*l, and the judges weren't expected to act any other way.'"

Waves of fascism and racism that will swamp the Jewish state unless Jews living there decide if they want to exist in a democratic state or a Jewish one; it's not too different from what we're facing in the US; do we want to live in a democracy or a plutocracy?

What's your choice?

Racist Israeli Supreme Court Decisions


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _What would you infer if you watched your attackers machine-gun inflatable life rafts?_
> 
> 
> 
> We would infer that it's an inflatable bullshitt, of course. That same unmarked batmen spotter lt. Painter testified that most of the life rafts were damaged and burning after jet attacks on the ship and the crew dumped many of them overboard. Why won't those individuals get their tales straight?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Better work on that "bat"-stroke, drivel.
> The Jewish state is swirling the same racist drain as white South Africa.
Click to expand...

Nope. Keep up, it's actually the opposite. More and more people and nations are realizing the animals Israel is up against.  Let's not forget that not too long ago, Isrsel was asked to "negotiate" with that genocidal mass murderer Assad who has now murdered over 17,000 fellow Syrians to save his own skin. It's easy for others to ask Israel to sit across the table from these beasts, another thing when you realize what you're really asking of them.


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Better work on that "bat"-stroke, drivel.
> The Jewish state is swirling the same racist drain as white South Africa.
> 
> 
> 
> Another un-educated twerp squeeks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Two recent Israeli High Court rulings follow a disturbing trend. On January 11, divided justices ruled 6 - 5 for Israel's Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law.
> 
> "It denies citizenship rights to Palestinians with Israeli spouses. Enacted in 2003 as temporary legislation, it was extended twice after its initial expiration date.
> 
> "The law empowers the interior minister to grant citizenship only if affected Palestinians identify strongly and cooperate with Israel. They must also contribute to national security. As a result, few qualify.
> 
> "In addition, it limits potential eligibility to Palestinian husbands 36 or older and Palestinian wives at least 26.
> 
> "A Qara village attorney called the decision a 'declaration of war on Israeli Arabs.' A mixed couple said the decision '*will lead to the expulsion of thousands of families from the country*.'
> 
> "The Palestinian wife of another mixed couple got temporary permit permission to live with her husband in Acre without legal rights extended Israeli citizens. Her husband, a Haifa University doctoral candidate, wasn't surprised by the ruling, saying:
> 
> "'*The decision is proof that one shouldn't have faith in the Israeli judicial system*. It is clear that the Supreme Court is influenced by the *wave of fascism and racism sweeping Israe*l, and the judges weren't expected to act any other way.'"
> 
> Waves of fascism and racism that will swamp the Jewish state unless Jews living there decide if they want to exist in a democratic state or a Jewish one; it's not too different from what we're facing in the US; do we want to live in a democracy or a plutocracy?
> 
> What's your choice?
> 
> Racist Israeli Supreme Court Decisions
Click to expand...

Israel is like heaven compared to any Muslim shithole, including the Palestinians. Remember over 20% of Israelis are Arab Israelis, and the worlds major faiths including Christianity and  Bahaiism have their holiest sites there, and feel totally comfortable and grateful that Israelis are in charge of the place. If you want institutionalized hatred and intolerance, check any Muslim shithole.


----------



## Roudy

loinboy said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you're not, you're just your average ignorant dipshit.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not ignorant.  I'm like the Dylan song, _"I know my song well, before I start singing"_.  That's why you rarely ever debate me.  It's safer not to engage and just sit back and call me names.  Because the few times you tried, you had your head handed to you.
> 
> I am so good at debating, that I can take mine and beat yours; then turn around and take yours and beat mine.  It's best you stay with the ad hominem's.  You're out of your league if you even attempt to argue.
> 
> Now, if you think what I said is BS, then step up, pick a subject and let's go at it.  Unfortunately, I think we both know what your answer will be.
> 
> _Back to you..._
Click to expand...

Now you're just whining.


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Better work on that "bat"-stroke, drivel.
> The Jewish state is swirling the same racist drain as white South Africa.
> 
> 
> 
> Another un-educated twerp squeeks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Two recent Israeli High Court rulings follow a disturbing trend. On January 11, divided justices ruled 6 - 5 for Israel's Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law.
> 
> "It denies citizenship rights to Palestinians with Israeli spouses. Enacted in 2003 as temporary legislation, it was extended twice after its initial expiration date.
> 
> "The law empowers the interior minister to grant citizenship only if affected Palestinians identify strongly and cooperate with Israel. They must also contribute to national security. As a result, few qualify.
> 
> "In addition, it limits potential eligibility to Palestinian husbands 36 or older and Palestinian wives at least 26.
> 
> "A Qara village attorney called the decision a 'declaration of war on Israeli Arabs.' A mixed couple said the decision '*will lead to the expulsion of thousands of families from the country*.'
> 
> "The Palestinian wife of another mixed couple got temporary permit permission to live with her husband in Acre without legal rights extended Israeli citizens. Her husband, a Haifa University doctoral candidate, wasn't surprised by the ruling, saying:
> 
> "'*The decision is proof that one shouldn't have faith in the Israeli judicial system*. It is clear that the Supreme Court is influenced by the *wave of fascism and racism sweeping Israe*l, and the judges weren't expected to act any other way.'"
> 
> Waves of fascism and racism that will swamp the Jewish state unless Jews living there decide if they want to exist in a democratic state or a Jewish one; it's not too different from what we're facing in the US; do we want to live in a democracy or a plutocracy?
> 
> What's your choice?
> 
> Racist Israeli Supreme Court Decisions
Click to expand...

Citizens of a country are best served by their Supreme Courts rulings. Can't cater to the minority.


----------



## georgephillip

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We would infer that it's an inflatable bullshitt, of course. That same unmarked batmen spotter lt. Painter testified that most of the life rafts were damaged and burning after jet attacks on the ship and the crew dumped many of them overboard. Why won't those individuals get their tales straight?
> 
> 
> 
> Better work on that "bat"-stroke, drivel.
> The Jewish state is swirling the same racist drain as white South Africa.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope. Keep up, it's actually the opposite. More and more people and nations are realizing the animals Israel is up against.  Let's not forget that not too long ago, Isrsel was asked to "negotiate" with that genocidal mass murderer Assad who has now murdered over 17,000 fellow Syrians to save his own skin. It's easy for others to ask Israel to sit across the table from these beasts, another thing when you realize what you're really asking of them.
Click to expand...

Israel had no trouble negotiating with the White beasts in South Africa...

"The system preserving this apartheid is more ruthless than that seen in South Africa, where the black were a labor force and could therefore also make a living. It is equipped with the lie of being 'temporary...'"

"Abba Eban captured the allegation by coining a phrase repeated by the doves of all parties, who never really went to battle over Israel's future and allowed the 'settlement project' to spread. *After all, occupation makes Israelis richer*. Why oppose it?"

Does the occupation make Israelis richer? 
Of course it does.
That's why you support it.

Israel's apartheid is worse than South Africa's - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Better work on that "bat"-stroke, drivel.
> The Jewish state is swirling the same racist drain as white South Africa.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Keep up, it's actually the opposite. More and more people and nations are realizing the animals Israel is up against.  Let's not forget that not too long ago, Isrsel was asked to "negotiate" with that genocidal mass murderer Assad who has now murdered over 17,000 fellow Syrians to save his own skin. It's easy for others to ask Israel to sit across the table from these beasts, another thing when you realize what you're really asking of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel had no trouble negotiating with the White beasts in South Africa...
> 
> "The system preserving this apartheid is more ruthless than that seen in South Africa, where the black were a labor force and could therefore also make a living. It is equipped with the lie of being 'temporary...'"
> 
> "Abba Eban captured the allegation by coining a phrase repeated by the doves of all parties, who never really went to battle over Israel's future and allowed the 'settlement project' to spread. *After all, occupation makes Israelis richer*. Why oppose it?"
> 
> Does the occupation make Israelis richer?
> Of course it does.
> That's why you support it.
> 
> Israel's apartheid is worse than South Africa's - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper
Click to expand...

Was South Africa an enemey of Israel, asshole?  No, so other than try to vomit more anti semetic garbage you have nothing else to respond with then.


----------



## sealadaigh

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another un-educated twerp squeeks.
> 
> 
> 
> "Two recent Israeli High Court rulings follow a disturbing trend. On January 11, divided justices ruled 6 - 5 for Israel's Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law.
> 
> "It denies citizenship rights to Palestinians with Israeli spouses. Enacted in 2003 as temporary legislation, it was extended twice after its initial expiration date.
> 
> "The law empowers the interior minister to grant citizenship only if affected Palestinians identify strongly and cooperate with Israel. They must also contribute to national security. As a result, few qualify.
> 
> "In addition, it limits potential eligibility to Palestinian husbands 36 or older and Palestinian wives at least 26.
> 
> "A Qara village attorney called the decision a 'declaration of war on Israeli Arabs.' A mixed couple said the decision '*will lead to the expulsion of thousands of families from the country*.'
> 
> "The Palestinian wife of another mixed couple got temporary permit permission to live with her husband in Acre without legal rights extended Israeli citizens. Her husband, a Haifa University doctoral candidate, wasn't surprised by the ruling, saying:
> 
> "'*The decision is proof that one shouldn't have faith in the Israeli judicial system*. It is clear that the Supreme Court is influenced by the *wave of fascism and racism sweeping Israe*l, and the judges weren't expected to act any other way.'"
> 
> Waves of fascism and racism that will swamp the Jewish state unless Jews living there decide if they want to exist in a democratic state or a Jewish one; it's not too different from what we're facing in the US; do we want to live in a democracy or a plutocracy?
> 
> What's your choice?
> 
> Racist Israeli Supreme Court Decisions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is like heaven compared to any Muslim shithole, including the Palestinians. Remember over 20% of Israelis are Arab Israelis, and the worlds major faiths including Christianity and  Bahaiism have their holiest sites there, and feel totally comfortable and grateful that Israelis are in charge of the place. If you want institutionalized hatred and intolerance, check any Muslim shithole.
Click to expand...


Johannes Martarsian was walking in the Old City in May 2008 when an young ultra-Orthodox Jew spat at him. Maratersian punched the spitter in the face, making him bleed, and was charged for assault. But Judge Dov Pollock, who *unexpectedly* annulled the indictment, wrote in his verdict that "putting the defendant on trial for a single blow at a man who spat at his face, after suffering the degradation of being spat on for years while walking around in his church robes is a fundamental contravention of the principles of justice and decency." 

Ultra-Orthodox spitting attacks on Old City clergymen becoming daily Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper


----------



## sealadaigh

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another un-educated twerp squeeks.
> 
> 
> 
> "Two recent Israeli High Court rulings follow a disturbing trend. On January 11, divided justices ruled 6 - 5 for Israel's Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law.
> 
> "It denies citizenship rights to Palestinians with Israeli spouses. Enacted in 2003 as temporary legislation, it was extended twice after its initial expiration date.
> 
> "The law empowers the interior minister to grant citizenship only if affected Palestinians identify strongly and cooperate with Israel. They must also contribute to national security. As a result, few qualify.
> 
> "In addition, it limits potential eligibility to Palestinian husbands 36 or older and Palestinian wives at least 26.
> 
> "A Qara village attorney called the decision a 'declaration of war on Israeli Arabs.' A mixed couple said the decision '*will lead to the expulsion of thousands of families from the country*.'
> 
> "The Palestinian wife of another mixed couple got temporary permit permission to live with her husband in Acre without legal rights extended Israeli citizens. Her husband, a Haifa University doctoral candidate, wasn't surprised by the ruling, saying:
> 
> "'*The decision is proof that one shouldn't have faith in the Israeli judicial system*. It is clear that the Supreme Court is influenced by the *wave of fascism and racism sweeping Israe*l, and the judges weren't expected to act any other way.'"
> 
> Waves of fascism and racism that will swamp the Jewish state unless Jews living there decide if they want to exist in a democratic state or a Jewish one; it's not too different from what we're facing in the US; do we want to live in a democracy or a plutocracy?
> 
> What's your choice?
> 
> Racist Israeli Supreme Court Decisions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is like heaven compared to any Muslim shithole, including the Palestinians. Remember over 20% of Israelis are Arab Israelis, and the worlds major faiths including Christianity and  Bahaiism have their holiest sites there, and feel totally comfortable and grateful that Israelis are in charge of the place. If you want institutionalized hatred and intolerance, check any Muslim shithole.
Click to expand...


25 february, 1994.
cave of the patriarchs.
al khalil, palestine


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Now you're just whining.


I'm just "winning".

And you're just running.


----------



## Hossfly

reabhloideach said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Two recent Israeli High Court rulings follow a disturbing trend. On January 11, divided justices ruled 6 - 5 for Israel's Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law.
> 
> "It denies citizenship rights to Palestinians with Israeli spouses. Enacted in 2003 as temporary legislation, it was extended twice after its initial expiration date.
> 
> "The law empowers the interior minister to grant citizenship only if affected Palestinians identify strongly and cooperate with Israel. They must also contribute to national security. As a result, few qualify.
> 
> "In addition, it limits potential eligibility to Palestinian husbands 36 or older and Palestinian wives at least 26.
> 
> "A Qara village attorney called the decision a 'declaration of war on Israeli Arabs.' A mixed couple said the decision '*will lead to the expulsion of thousands of families from the country*.'
> 
> "The Palestinian wife of another mixed couple got temporary permit permission to live with her husband in Acre without legal rights extended Israeli citizens. Her husband, a Haifa University doctoral candidate, wasn't surprised by the ruling, saying:
> 
> "'*The decision is proof that one shouldn't have faith in the Israeli judicial system*. It is clear that the Supreme Court is influenced by the *wave of fascism and racism sweeping Israe*l, and the judges weren't expected to act any other way.'"
> 
> Waves of fascism and racism that will swamp the Jewish state unless Jews living there decide if they want to exist in a democratic state or a Jewish one; it's not too different from what we're facing in the US; do we want to live in a democracy or a plutocracy?
> 
> What's your choice?
> 
> Racist Israeli Supreme Court Decisions
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is like heaven compared to any Muslim shithole, including the Palestinians. Remember over 20% of Israelis are Arab Israelis, and the worlds major faiths including Christianity and  Bahaiism have their holiest sites there, and feel totally comfortable and grateful that Israelis are in charge of the place. If you want institutionalized hatred and intolerance, check any Muslim shithole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 25 february, 1994.
> cave of the patriarchs.
> al khalil, palestine
Click to expand...

Was the Hebron Massacre institutional violence or the degenerate act of one deranged person?


----------



## Billo_Really

Hossfly said:


> Was the Hebron Massacre institutional violence or the degenerate act of one deranged person?


It was neither.  It was a riot that resulted from a bunch of zionist hooligan's going down to that Wailing Wall and declaring it jewish property.


----------



## Hossfly

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was the Hebron Massacre institutional violence or the degenerate act of one deranged person?
> 
> 
> 
> It was neither.  It was a riot that resulted from a bunch of zionist hooligan's going down to that Wailing Wall and declaring it jewish property.
Click to expand...

Just checking.


----------



## ItsjustmeIthink

reabhloideach said:


> just what exactly is it?
> 
> i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of israel and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.
> 
> i mean, who or what gives israel this right to exist? who conferred it upon israel or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? did israel have a right to exist before it became a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?
> 
> does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?
> 
> personally. i have no idea whether israel, or any state, has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.



Balfour Declaration? Just curious.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is like heaven compared to any Muslim shithole, including the Palestinians. Remember over 20% of Israelis are Arab Israelis, and the worlds major faiths including Christianity and  Bahaiism have their holiest sites there, and feel totally comfortable and grateful that Israelis are in charge of the place. If you want institutionalized hatred and intolerance, check any Muslim shithole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 25 february, 1994.
> cave of the patriarchs.
> al khalil, palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was the Hebron Massacre institutional violence or the degenerate act of one deranged person?
Click to expand...


Probably some of both.


----------



## sealadaigh

Hossfly said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is like heaven compared to any Muslim shithole, including the Palestinians. Remember over 20% of Israelis are Arab Israelis, and the worlds major faiths including Christianity and  Bahaiism have their holiest sites there, and feel totally comfortable and grateful that Israelis are in charge of the place. If you want institutionalized hatred and intolerance, check any Muslim shithole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 25 february, 1994.
> cave of the patriarchs.
> al khalil, palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was the Hebron Massacre institutional violence or the degenerate act of one deranged person?
Click to expand...


well, hoss...judging from the pilgramages and the special laws that had to be passed and the purim songs and costumes, i think i am going to have to say it is closer to institutionalised violencr than it is to the act of one deranged madman.

also, i find it very, very odd and almost perverse that the very same people who say israel is a "light unto the nations" and "a beacon of democracy" feel comfortable defending her by comparing her to "muslim shitholes." in fact, it is their go to defense.

now, i have this plan to turn palestine into a paradise and stop suicide bombings and rockets and whatever. here is what we do. we up front give her ten years of the aid package we  give to israel, let's say half a trillion. we guarantee them the annual package we gave to israel for the next 20 years. we tell the israelis "back behind the green line and out of east jerusalem...and there you go. we can make up the diff by not giving to israel what we give to the palestinians. there will be a few wrinkles to iron out but...

problem solved, huh? one less "muslim shithole."


----------



## ItsjustmeIthink

reabhloideach said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 25 february, 1994.
> cave of the patriarchs.
> al khalil, palestine
> 
> 
> 
> Was the Hebron Massacre institutional violence or the degenerate act of one deranged person?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> well, hoss...judging from the pilgramages and the special laws that had to be passed and the purim songs and costumes, i think i am going to have to say it is closer to institutionalised violencr than it is to the act of one deranged madman.
> 
> also, i find it very, very odd and almost perverse that the very same people who say israel is a "light unto the nations" and "a beacon of democracy" feel comfortable defending her by comparing her to "muslim shitholes." in fact, it is their go to defense.
> 
> now, i have this plan to turn palestine into a paradise and stop suicide bombings and rockets and whatever. here is what we do. we up front give her ten years of the aid package we  give to israel, let's say half a trillion. we guarantee them the annual package we gave to israel for the next 20 years. we tell the israelis "back behind the green line and out of east jerusalem...and there you go. we can make up the diff by not giving to israel what we give to the palestinians. there will be a few wrinkles to iron out but...
> 
> problem solved, huh? one less "muslim shithole."
Click to expand...


This is more of a speculative tone, but I heard Israel majority party has been losing touch with its citzens and that this ongoing lack of progress in the region is due to their hard-line stance involving religion and with that the belief that waht the palestinians have, they should have.

I know I heard this from a credible source, sadly I can't seem to remember who or what that was :S


----------



## P F Tinmore

ItsjustmeIthink said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> just what exactly is it?
> 
> i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of israel and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.
> 
> i mean, who or what gives israel this right to exist? who conferred it upon israel or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? did israel have a right to exist before it became a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?
> 
> does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?
> 
> personally. i have no idea whether israel, or any state, has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Balfour Declaration? Just curious.
Click to expand...


The Balfour declaration was a letter from one criminal to another neither of whom had one inch of rights inside Palestine.


----------



## ItsjustmeIthink

P F Tinmore said:


> ItsjustmeIthink said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> just what exactly is it?
> 
> i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of israel and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.
> 
> i mean, who or what gives israel this right to exist? who conferred it upon israel or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? did israel have a right to exist before it became a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?
> 
> does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?
> 
> personally. i have no idea whether israel, or any state, has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Balfour Declaration? Just curious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Balfour declaration was a letter from one criminal to another neither of whom had one inch of rights inside Palestine.
Click to expand...


Again, I know very little on the subject. But isn't a formal declartion by an establised country kinda how most states come to existence, I mean...in a formal way in the eyes of the established global community.

I really don't know much sorry.

But while we're talking about "rights" how are you defining that? Like a legal right or a moral one? I just ask because I remember the Romans were essentially the ones who forced most of the jews out of palestine in the first place. Then subsequent changes of the country heavily invovled violence and upheavels?

Given the history of the area, would superior force = rights?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ItsjustmeIthink said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ItsjustmeIthink said:
> 
> 
> 
> Balfour Declaration? Just curious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Balfour declaration was a letter from one criminal to another neither of whom had one inch of rights inside Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, I know very little on the subject. But isn't a formal declartion by an establised country kinda how most states come to existence, I mean...in a formal way in the eyes of the established global community.
> 
> I really don't know much sorry.
> 
> But while we're talking about "rights" how are you defining that? Like a legal right or a moral one? I just ask because I remember the Romans were essentially the ones who forced most of the jews out of palestine in the first place. Then subsequent changes of the country heavily invovled violence and upheavels?
> 
> Given the history of the area, would superior force = rights?
Click to expand...


Before the early part of the last century it was not illegal to invade another country and take what you want. Since then, however, that has become illegal under international law.


----------



## sealadaigh

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was the Hebron Massacre institutional violence or the degenerate act of one deranged person?
> 
> 
> 
> It was neither.  It was a riot that resulted from a bunch of zionist hooligan's going down to that Wailing Wall and declaring it jewish property.
Click to expand...


to many "massacres", too few hebrons. the date i posted was for the baruch golstein spree. i think that was what hoss was responding to.


----------



## sealadaigh

ItsjustmeIthink said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ItsjustmeIthink said:
> 
> 
> 
> Balfour Declaration? Just curious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Balfour declaration was a letter from one criminal to another neither of whom had one inch of rights inside Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, I know very little on the subject. But isn't a formal declartion by an establised country kinda how most states come to existence, I mean...in a formal way in the eyes of the established global community.
> 
> I really don't know much sorry.
> 
> But while we're talking about "rights" how are you defining that? Like a legal right or a moral one? I just ask because I remember the Romans were essentially the ones who forced most of the jews out of palestine in the first place. Then subsequent changes of the country heavily invovled violence and upheavels?
> 
> Given the history of the area, would superior force = rights?
Click to expand...


just very briefly, and i will get to more later, but the british government had more right to dictate the course of her american colonies than it did to dictate the course of the palestinian people.

the most simple irish bogtrotter has a better grasp if british language and law than the most learned jurists in the world. experience may be the best  teacher, but it is oft a cruel teacher.

a "national home" is not a "state."
"His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people,"
http://www.mbc.edu/faculty/gbowen/BalfourDeclaration.jpg

and that is just for starters. as for this "right to exist", i am beginning to think it means nothing at all. no state has a right to exist. it just exists. it is moot. the mere fact that the palestinians are willing to sit down and negotiate with israel makes the recognition of israel's right to exist implicit. furthermore, that recognition has been expressed in very explicit ways many times, the most notable being the arab peace initiative.


----------



## ItsjustmeIthink

reabhloideach said:


> ItsjustmeIthink said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Balfour declaration was a letter from one criminal to another neither of whom had one inch of rights inside Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I know very little on the subject. But isn't a formal declartion by an establised country kinda how most states come to existence, I mean...in a formal way in the eyes of the established global community.
> 
> I really don't know much sorry.
> 
> But while we're talking about "rights" how are you defining that? Like a legal right or a moral one? I just ask because I remember the Romans were essentially the ones who forced most of the jews out of palestine in the first place. Then subsequent changes of the country heavily invovled violence and upheavels?
> 
> Given the history of the area, would superior force = rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> just very briefly, and i will get to more later, but the british government had more right to dictate the course of her american colonies than it did to dictate the course of the palestinian people.
> 
> the most simple irish bogtrotter has a better grasp if british language and law than the most learned jurists in the world. experience may be the best  teacher, but it is oft a cruel teacher.
> 
> a "national home" is not a "state."
> "His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people,"
> http://www.mbc.edu/faculty/gbowen/BalfourDeclaration.jpg
> 
> and that is just for starters. as for this "right to exist", i am beginning to think it means nothing at all. no state has a right to exist. it just exists. it is moot. the mere fact that the palestinians are willing to sit down and negotiate with israel makes the recognition of israel's right to exist implicit. furthermore, that recognition has been expressed in very explicit ways many times, the most notable being the arab peace initiative.
Click to expand...


I get it...I think. About the "right to exist" I mean. Are you saying something like no where is there some anceint tablet or doctrine of sorts that dictates the "proper" and/or "improper" actions of man?

Like no centralized, universally accepted source for what dicates mans "right" to anything?
edit: something much older than today's "holy books", like it would have had to intertwined with the origin of man.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ItsjustmeIthink said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ItsjustmeIthink said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I know very little on the subject. But isn't a formal declartion by an establised country kinda how most states come to existence, I mean...in a formal way in the eyes of the established global community.
> 
> I really don't know much sorry.
> 
> But while we're talking about "rights" how are you defining that? Like a legal right or a moral one? I just ask because I remember the Romans were essentially the ones who forced most of the jews out of palestine in the first place. Then subsequent changes of the country heavily invovled violence and upheavels?
> 
> Given the history of the area, would superior force = rights?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just very briefly, and i will get to more later, but the british government had more right to dictate the course of her american colonies than it did to dictate the course of the palestinian people.
> 
> the most simple irish bogtrotter has a better grasp if british language and law than the most learned jurists in the world. experience may be the best  teacher, but it is oft a cruel teacher.
> 
> a "national home" is not a "state."
> "His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people,"
> http://www.mbc.edu/faculty/gbowen/BalfourDeclaration.jpg
> 
> and that is just for starters. as for this "right to exist", i am beginning to think it means nothing at all. no state has a right to exist. it just exists. it is moot. the mere fact that the palestinians are willing to sit down and negotiate with israel makes the recognition of israel's right to exist implicit. furthermore, that recognition has been expressed in very explicit ways many times, the most notable being the arab peace initiative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I get it...I think. About the "right to exist" I mean. Are you saying something like no where is there some anceint tablet or doctrine of sorts that dictates the "proper" and/or "improper" actions of man?
> 
> Like no centralized, universally accepted source for what dicates mans "right" to anything?
> edit: something much older than today's "holy books", like it would have had to intertwined with the origin of man.
Click to expand...


I think it was written a long time ago something about killing, stealing, and lying.

It is OK to do all that stuff, of course, if you do it in the name of God.


----------



## ItsjustmeIthink

P F Tinmore said:


> ItsjustmeIthink said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> just very briefly, and i will get to more later, but the british government had more right to dictate the course of her american colonies than it did to dictate the course of the palestinian people.
> 
> the most simple irish bogtrotter has a better grasp if british language and law than the most learned jurists in the world. experience may be the best  teacher, but it is oft a cruel teacher.
> 
> a "national home" is not a "state."
> "His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people,"
> http://www.mbc.edu/faculty/gbowen/BalfourDeclaration.jpg
> 
> and that is just for starters. as for this "right to exist", i am beginning to think it means nothing at all. no state has a right to exist. it just exists. it is moot. the mere fact that the palestinians are willing to sit down and negotiate with israel makes the recognition of israel's right to exist implicit. furthermore, that recognition has been expressed in very explicit ways many times, the most notable being the arab peace initiative.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I get it...I think. About the "right to exist" I mean. Are you saying something like no where is there some anceint tablet or doctrine of sorts that dictates the "proper" and/or "improper" actions of man?
> 
> Like no centralized, universally accepted source for what dicates mans "right" to anything?
> edit: something much older than today's "holy books", like it would have had to intertwined with the origin of man.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think it was written a long time ago something about killing, stealing, and lying.
> 
> It is OK to do all that stuff, of course, if you do it in the name of God.
Click to expand...

And I'm not saying anything exists like I mentioned in my previous post. Just to be clear.

No, long before that. Before religion, before the concept of religion, before hunter-gatherer tribes began to congregate. Before language and all that. 

I don't think it could exist though. Because if it were to exist, then it would proably been created by man. If it were created by man, then its tainted with man's process of though, whatever that may be. If it were tainted or "corrupted" by man's thinking, then it wouldn't _truly_ be a universal source on which humanity can accuratly rely. Because, no matter what, humans have individual ways of thinking and often react to matters very differently than other humans, i.e. we're not all the same. 

I guess, in a way, what I'm trying to descired is a sort of "Guide to Humanity" that would, basically, have to predate human history.

Sorry if I don't make any sense


----------



## P F Tinmore

ItsjustmeIthink said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ItsjustmeIthink said:
> 
> 
> 
> I get it...I think. About the "right to exist" I mean. Are you saying something like no where is there some anceint tablet or doctrine of sorts that dictates the "proper" and/or "improper" actions of man?
> 
> Like no centralized, universally accepted source for what dicates mans "right" to anything?
> edit: something much older than today's "holy books", like it would have had to intertwined with the origin of man.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it was written a long time ago something about killing, stealing, and lying.
> 
> It is OK to do all that stuff, of course, if you do it in the name of God.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I'm not saying anything exists like I mentioned in my previous post. Just to be clear.
> 
> No, long before that. Before religion, before the concept of religion, before hunter-gatherer tribes began to congregate. Before language and all that.
> 
> I don't think it could exist though. Because if it were to exist, then it would proably been created by man. If it were created by man, then its tainted with man's process of though, whatever that may be. If it were tainted or "corrupted" by man's thinking, then it wouldn't _truly_ be a universal source on which humanity can accuratly rely. Because, no matter what, humans have individual ways of thinking and often react to matters very differently than other humans, i.e. we're not all the same.
> 
> I guess, in a way, what I'm trying to descired is a sort of "Guide to Humanity" that would, basically, have to predate human history.
> 
> Sorry if I don't make any sense
Click to expand...


You make perfect sense. I believe that most people are good but there are enough bad ones to ruin it for the rest of us.


----------



## Roudy

reabhloideach said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Two recent Israeli High Court rulings follow a disturbing trend. On January 11, divided justices ruled 6 - 5 for Israel's Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law.
> 
> "It denies citizenship rights to Palestinians with Israeli spouses. Enacted in 2003 as temporary legislation, it was extended twice after its initial expiration date.
> 
> "The law empowers the interior minister to grant citizenship only if affected Palestinians identify strongly and cooperate with Israel. They must also contribute to national security. As a result, few qualify.
> 
> "In addition, it limits potential eligibility to Palestinian husbands 36 or older and Palestinian wives at least 26.
> 
> "A Qara village attorney called the decision a 'declaration of war on Israeli Arabs.' A mixed couple said the decision '*will lead to the expulsion of thousands of families from the country*.'
> 
> "The Palestinian wife of another mixed couple got temporary permit permission to live with her husband in Acre without legal rights extended Israeli citizens. Her husband, a Haifa University doctoral candidate, wasn't surprised by the ruling, saying:
> 
> "'*The decision is proof that one shouldn't have faith in the Israeli judicial system*. It is clear that the Supreme Court is influenced by the *wave of fascism and racism sweeping Israe*l, and the judges weren't expected to act any other way.'"
> 
> Waves of fascism and racism that will swamp the Jewish state unless Jews living there decide if they want to exist in a democratic state or a Jewish one; it's not too different from what we're facing in the US; do we want to live in a democracy or a plutocracy?
> 
> What's your choice?
> 
> Racist Israeli Supreme Court Decisions
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is like heaven compared to any Muslim shithole, including the Palestinians. Remember over 20% of Israelis are Arab Israelis, and the worlds major faiths including Christianity and  Bahaiism have their holiest sites there, and feel totally comfortable and grateful that Israelis are in charge of the place. If you want institutionalized hatred and intolerance, check any Muslim shithole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Johannes Martarsian was walking in the Old City in May 2008 when an young ultra-Orthodox Jew spat at him. Maratersian punched the spitter in the face, making him bleed, and was charged for assault. But Judge Dov Pollock, who *unexpectedly* annulled the indictment, wrote in his verdict that "putting the defendant on trial for a single blow at a man who spat at his face, after suffering the degradation of being spat on for years while walking around in his church robes is a fundamental contravention of the principles of justice and decency."
> 
> Ultra-Orthodox spitting attacks on Old City clergymen becoming daily Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper
Click to expand...

Is that before or after the Palestinian terrorists barged into an ancient Church in Bethlehem, held the priest hostage, and used ancient Bibles, some of them artifacts, AS TOILET PAPER? 

You really have a problem grasping the reality of the intolerance, hate, and violence that Muslims harbor towards non Muslims.

http://jcpa.org/jl/vp490.htm


----------



## Roudy

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was the Hebron Massacre institutional violence or the degenerate act of one deranged person?
> 
> 
> 
> It was neither.  It was a riot that resulted from a bunch of zionist hooligan's going down to that Wailing Wall and declaring it jewish property.
Click to expand...

Gee!  And what right did the Jews have declaring the Wailing Wall as Jewish Property?  Heck, that's like Muslims declaring Mecca as Muslim property, or Catholics declaring the Vatican. What right did Jews have declaring what's theirs....THEIR'S?!  Jihad! Slaughter all the Jews!


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> You really have a problem grasping the reality of the intolerance, hate, and violence that Muslims harbor towards non Muslims.


Maybe they were still dealing with all the _"intolerance, hate, and violence" _you spew on a constant basis.  

In fact, that's all you do.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Gee!  And what right did the Jews have declaring the Wailing Wall as Jewish Property?  Heck, that's like Muslims declaring Mecca as Muslim property, or Catholics declaring the Vatican. What right did Jews have declaring what's theirs....THEIR'S?!  Jihad! Slaughter all the Jews!


Well, the "Wall" is not their's.  That area is shared by both religions.  Both groups have special connections to that place.  But since your side is a bunch of selfish assholes, you're mentally incapable of co-existing with people who don't see things the way you do. And thank God for that.

The only positive thing about you, is that your a good example of a really fucked human being.


----------



## Roudy

loinboy said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee!  And what right did the Jews have declaring the Wailing Wall as Jewish Property?  Heck, that's like Muslims declaring Mecca as Muslim property, or Catholics declaring the Vatican. What right did Jews have declaring what's theirs....THEIR'S?!  Jihad! Slaughter all the Jews!
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the "Wall" is not their's.  That area is shared by both religions.  Both groups have special connections to that place.  But since your side is a bunch of selfish assholes, you're mentally incapable of co-existing with people who don't see things the way you do. And thank God for that.
> 
> The only positive thing about you, is that your a good example of a really fucked human being.
Click to expand...

The Wall was built by Jews, idiot. They are the walls of the ancient temple.  Arabs have zero rights to the wall, historically and religiously. 

"If I were president" I would revoke your citizenship and ship your filthy ass one way to Gaza.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> ItsjustmeIthink said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> just what exactly is it?
> 
> i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of israel and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.
> 
> i mean, who or what gives israel this right to exist? who conferred it upon israel or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? did israel have a right to exist before it became a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?
> 
> does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?
> 
> personally. i have no idea whether israel, or any state, has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Balfour Declaration? Just curious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Balfour declaration was a letter from one criminal to another neither of whom had one inch of rights inside Palestine.
Click to expand...

That would be the Palestinians.  Oh wait, unless you're referring to the Jews, they never existed back then. Heh heh heh!


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> The Wall was built by Jews, idiot. They are the walls of the ancient temple.  Arabs have zero rights to the wall, historically and religiously.
> 
> "If I were president" I would revoke your citizenship and ship your filthy ass one way to Gaza.


First class or steerage?


----------



## Roudy

loinboy said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Wall was built by Jews, idiot. They are the walls of the ancient temple.  Arabs have zero rights to the wall, historically and religiously.
> 
> "If I were president" I would revoke your citizenship and ship your filthy ass one way to Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> First class or steerage?
Click to expand...

Ship you on one of those terrorist flotillas. Meet and greet your future boyfriends, on a pleasure cruise of your lifetime.  Your ass will never be the same. Heh heh heh.


----------



## ima

Roudy said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Wall was built by Jews, idiot. They are the walls of the ancient temple.  Arabs have zero rights to the wall, historically and religiously.
> 
> "If I were president" I would revoke your citizenship and ship your filthy ass one way to Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> First class or steerage?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ship you on one of those terrorist flotillas. Meet and greet your future boyfriends, on a pleasure cruise of your lifetime.  Your ass will never be the same. Heh heh heh.
Click to expand...


Roudy, there you go again with the ass pounding stuff. Please check your sexual orientation, it might not be as you think.


----------



## Hossfly

reabhloideach said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was the Hebron Massacre institutional violence or the degenerate act of one deranged person?
> 
> 
> 
> It was neither.  It was a riot that resulted from a bunch of zionist hooligan's going down to that Wailing Wall and declaring it jewish property.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> to many "massacres", too few hebrons. the date i posted was for the baruch golstein spree. i think that was what hoss was responding to.
Click to expand...

You're right, I responded to the wrong post. My bad. Glad you caught it.


----------



## irosie91

The massacre in Hebron had nothing to do with the wailing wall----it was simply another  muslim pogrom      in which the throats of babies were slit for the glory of schmallah


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> The massacre in Hebron had nothing to do with the wailing wall----it was simply another  muslim pogrom      in which the throats of babies were slit for the glory of schmallah



Actually it was in response to the Zionist invasion.


----------



## sealadaigh

Roudy said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was the Hebron Massacre institutional violence or the degenerate act of one deranged person?
> 
> 
> 
> It was neither.  It was a riot that resulted from a bunch of zionist hooligan's going down to that Wailing Wall and declaring it jewish property.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Gee!  And what right did the Jews have declaring the Wailing Wall as Jewish Property?  Heck, that's like Muslims declaring Mecca as Muslim property, or Catholics declaring the Vatican. What right did Jews have declaring what's theirs....THEIR'S?!  Jihad! Slaughter all the Jews!
Click to expand...


the indigenous jews of al khalil lived there peacefully beside their indigenous arab neigbours for years. they, in fact, distanced thenselves from the european and american zionist jews, who were the victims of the massacre. many jews today, for propaganda purposes, say that the hebron jews who were killed were not zionist, but that term seems to vary as to the particular story being told. they were american and european yeshiva students mostly...and zionists.

that certainly doesn't justify the massacre, but it certainly does cast a different light on this tale of blood lust you are telling. perhaps instead of "kill all the jews" it might be better put "kill the colonisers from foreign soil who come to take iur land."

what do you think we should do about the illegal immigrant problem here, roudy?


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The massacre in Hebron had nothing to do with the wailing wall----it was simply another  muslim pogrom      in which the throats of babies were slit for the glory of schmallah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it was in response to the Zionist invasion.
Click to expand...



Yes it was----it was a response to the fact that in the early  1800s  the OTTOMAN RULERS   (whom the arabs despised)    had eased the shariah proscription on jewish ownership of land.     When jews purchased the land of  Hebron      people like you were horrified just as people in the town of my childhood were horrified if a black family purchased a home in our town.      People like you wanted to lynch the black family members       It is good of you to reveal precisely that which you are.    I am not sure that even the people like you who lived in that town would slit the throats of infants------but I tend to be optimistic


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _What would you infer if you watched your attackers machine-gun inflatable life rafts?_
> 
> 
> 
> We would infer that it's an inflatable bullshitt, of course. That same unmarked batmen spotter lt. Painter testified that most of the life rafts were damaged and burning after jet attacks on the ship and the crew dumped many of them overboard. Why won't those individuals get their tales straight?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Better work on that "bat"-stroke, drivel. The Jewish state is swirling the same racist drain as white South Africa._
Click to expand...

All-predictable drivel-rage, fusillades of drivel in all directions, no argument so far. We win again, of course.


----------



## Billo_Really

ima said:


> Roudy, there you go again with the ass pounding stuff. Please check your sexual orientation, it might not be as you think.


How much you wanna bet he's a "Hanes grazer" or a "toncil jockey"?


----------



## sealadaigh

ItsjustmeIthink said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ItsjustmeIthink said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I know very little on the subject. But isn't a formal declartion by an establised country kinda how most states come to existence, I mean...in a formal way in the eyes of the established global community.
> 
> I really don't know much sorry.
> 
> But while we're talking about "rights" how are you defining that? Like a legal right or a moral one? I just ask because I remember the Romans were essentially the ones who forced most of the jews out of palestine in the first place. Then subsequent changes of the country heavily invovled violence and upheavels?
> 
> Given the history of the area, would superior force = rights?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just very briefly, and i will get to more later, but the british government had more right to dictate the course of her american colonies than it did to dictate the course of the palestinian people.
> 
> the most simple irish bogtrotter has a better grasp if british language and law than the most learned jurists in the world. experience may be the best  teacher, but it is oft a cruel teacher.
> 
> a "national home" is not a "state."
> "His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people,"
> http://www.mbc.edu/faculty/gbowen/BalfourDeclaration.jpg
> 
> and that is just for starters. as for this "right to exist", i am beginning to think it means nothing at all. no state has a right to exist. it just exists. it is moot. the mere fact that the palestinians are willing to sit down and negotiate with israel makes the recognition of israel's right to exist implicit. furthermore, that recognition has been expressed in very explicit ways many times, the most notable being the arab peace initiative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I get it...I think. About the "right to exist" I mean. Are you saying something like no where is there some anceint tablet or doctrine of sorts that dictates the "proper" and/or "improper" actions of man?
> 
> Like no centralized, universally accepted source for what dicates mans "right" to anything?
> edit: something much older than today's "holy books", like it would have had to intertwined with the origin of man.
Click to expand...


lol...not exactly. i am saying that a states "right to exist" is kind of like a persons "right to breathe" (not live, but just the simple act of inhaling or exhaling). it just is and need not be asserted. it is kinda like me asking you to recognise my right to exhale  how weird is that.

what i am saying is that israel's insistance that their "right to exist" be recognised is flat out goofy and a stalling tactic in order for israel to completely occupy the west bank without giving the palestinians any citizenship rights, not that they would want them anyway.

here is what he has said, and has been an unspoken policy of those before him...

In a video from 2001, Netanyahu, reportedly unaware he was being recorded, said: *"I know what America is. America is a thing you can move very easily, move it in the right direction. They won't get in our way."* Netanyahu also bragged how he undercut the peace process when he was prime minister during the Clinton administration. "*They asked me before the election if I'd honor [the Oslo accords],"* he said. *"I said I would, but ... I'm going to interpret the accords in such a way that would allow me to put an end to this galloping forward to the '67 borders. How did we do it? Nobody said what defined military zones were. Defined military zones are security zones; as far as I'm concerned, the entire Jordan Valley is a defined military zone. Go argue." *

Benjamin Netanyahu - Wikiquote

it is sort of like the balfour declaration or UN resolution 181, which israel agreed to with the UN. if you make a deal, you stick by it. israel has a proven track record of breaking their agreements.

i'm not sure any state has to assert their right to exist. that is a given. i do, however, think states can prove that they no longer should exist, and i think israel, not unlike nazi germany or any of a number of states, has gone down that path.

israek is simply a mistake, and a miserably failed enterprise, and has no place in the region. they are nothing but trouble, be it their own fault or the fault of orhers...i think the former...but now what do you do? i think maybe you make some major adjustments and help them find a jewish state somewhere else. something.


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _Israel had no trouble negotiating with the White beasts in South Africa..."The system preserving this apartheid is more ruthless than that seen in South Africa, where the black were a labor force and could therefore also make a living. It is equipped with the lie of being 'temporary...'"
> "Abba Eban captured the allegation by coining a phrase repeated by the doves of all parties, who never really went to battle over Israel's future and allowed the 'settlement project' to spread. After all, occupation makes Israelis richer. Why oppose it?"_


Leftist driiiivel.


----------



## Billo_Really

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We would infer that it's an inflatable bullshitt, of course. That same unmarked batmen spotter lt. Painter testified that most of the life rafts were damaged and burning after jet attacks on the ship and the crew dumped many of them overboard. Why won't those individuals get their tales straight?
> 
> 
> 
> _Better work on that "bat"-stroke, drivel. The Jewish state is swirling the same racist drain as white South Africa._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All-predictable drivel-rage, fusillades of drivel in all directions, no argument so far. We win again, of course.
Click to expand...

Drivel, huh?

Here's one of the typical zionist land ownership rules at the time...



> _*Keren Kayemet draft lease: Employment of Jewish labour only*
> 
> "... The lessee undertakes to execute all works connected with the cultivation of the holding *only with Jewish labour*. Failure to comply with this duty by the employment of non-Jewish labour shall render the lessee liable to the payment of compensation ..."
> 
> "The lease also provides that the *holding shall never be held by any but a Jew *..."​ _


Worked by_* "only a jew"*_ and owned by_* "only a jew", *_is pretty fuckin' apartheid to me.

Drivel, my ass!


----------



## docmauser1

loinboy said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Better work on that "bat"-stroke, drivel. The Jewish state is swirling the same racist drain as white South Africa._
> 
> 
> 
> All-predictable drivel-rage, fusillades of drivel in all directions, no argument so far. We win again, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Drivel, huh?_
Click to expand...

Aheuumm.


loinboy said:


> _Here's one of the typical zionist land ownership rules at the time..."Keren Kayemet draft lease: Employment of Jewish labour only "... The lessee undertakes to execute all works connected with the cultivation of the holding only with Jewish labour. Failure to comply with this duty by the employment of non-Jewish labour shall render the lessee liable to the payment of compensation ..." "The lease also provides that the holding shall never be held by any but a Jew ..." Worked by "only a jew" and owned by"only a jew", is pretty fuckin' apartheid to me._


Stale drivel. Any private property, not socialized by arabs, or the UN, is apartheid. Heh.


----------



## irosie91

The Keren Kayemet  land lease thing was designed to PUT JEWS TO WORK in occupations with which they had no real prior exerperience----to wit  FARMING-----and to avoid the exploitation of  "CHEAP ARAB LABOR"      It precedes the establishment of the state of Israel  ------and has absolutely nothing to do with  apartheid   At the time it was designed---it was something which would have been called very  "LEFTIST"    The concept was to NOT CREATE THE ARAB POPULATION into that which the Ottomans had created them----essentially SERFS       I find it very interesting that what was once a very PROGRESSIVE idea suddenly became  APARTHEID      To that point in history------since jews had been restricted from owning property in under christian and muslim oppression-----they simply were not farmers ----did not  know how to be farmers and actually had developed, to some extent, an aversion to that kind of work      Once they BOUGHT land-----they would be tempted to hire  CHEAP LABOR   (to wit---arabs)


----------



## Billo_Really

irosie91 said:


> The Keren Kayemet  land lease thing was designed to PUT JEWS TO WORK in occupations with which they had no real prior exerperience----to wit  FARMING-----and to avoid the exploitation of  "CHEAP ARAB LABOR"      It precedes the establishment of the state of Israel  ------and has absolutely nothing to do with  apartheid   At the time it was designed---it was something which would have been called very  "LEFTIST"    The concept was to NOT CREATE THE ARAB POPULATION into that which the Ottomans had created them----essentially SERFS       I find it very interesting that what was once a very PROGRESSIVE idea suddenly became  APARTHEID      To that point in history------since jews had been restricted from owning property in under christian and muslim oppression-----they simply were not farmers ----did not  know how to be farmers and actually had developed, to some extent, an aversion to that kind of work      Once they BOUGHT land-----they would be tempted to hire  CHEAP LABOR   (to wit---arabs)


If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...


----------



## drtywhtboy

Israel leads the World in agricultural development, they lead the world recycled water, they lead the world in Stem cell research, they lead the world in medical research, and they lead the world in citrus exports.....Why would we trade all that for a bunch of terrorist who want to lead the world in killing their young? Their own young at that. Its always the kids who go on tv then blow themselves up...I'll take a nation that's actually doing something good for the world, instead of evil....

 AND WITH THAT I'M DONE...
 ISRAEL FOREVER


----------



## Billo_Really

drtywhtboy said:


> Israel leads the World in agricultural development, they lead the world recycled water, they lead the world in Stem cell research, they lead the world in medical research, and they lead the world in citrus exports.....Why would we trade all that for a bunch of terrorist who want to lead the world in killing their young? Their own young at that. Its always the kids who go on tv then blow themselves up...I'll take a nation that's actually doing something good for the world, instead of evil....
> 
> AND WITH THAT I'M DONE...
> ISRAEL FOREVER


Israel also leads the world in fascism.


----------



## irosie91

there is no question that the early zionists were trying to create  a country which would be a refuge for jews-----a refuge from both christian and muslim oppression.     There is no question that they envisioned a land populated by jews      If christian and muslim oppression had not existed-----there would probably still be an Israel----since the area had been considered  "holy"   to jews for more than 3000 years------and the religion does actually teach that it is far better to live there than anywhere else  ------the part that would not have happened would have been the  FIGHT  to get that land.   Jews would have been there continuously and no one else would have an interest in it.    The only reason muslims want it is because they feel a need to control the entire Middle east-----Islam is a very imperialistic ideology


----------



## drtywhtboy

[The Mufti and the Fuhrer


----------



## Roudy

loinboy said:


> drtywhtboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel leads the World in agricultural development, they lead the world recycled water, they lead the world in Stem cell research, they lead the world in medical research, and they lead the world in citrus exports.....Why would we trade all that for a bunch of terrorist who want to lead the world in killing their young? Their own young at that. Its always the kids who go on tv then blow themselves up...I'll take a nation that's actually doing something good for the world, instead of evil....
> 
> AND WITH THAT I'M DONE...
> ISRAEL FOREVER
> 
> 
> 
> Israel also leads the world in fascism.
Click to expand...

Muslims and Palestinians do. The facist next door Assad has killed over 17,000 of his own people, and that was just a warmup so far. Wait till he gets the poison gas out.


----------



## Roudy

loinboy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Keren Kayemet  land lease thing was designed to PUT JEWS TO WORK in occupations with which they had no real prior exerperience----to wit  FARMING-----and to avoid the exploitation of  "CHEAP ARAB LABOR"      It precedes the establishment of the state of Israel  ------and has absolutely nothing to do with  apartheid   At the time it was designed---it was something which would have been called very  "LEFTIST"    The concept was to NOT CREATE THE ARAB POPULATION into that which the Ottomans had created them----essentially SERFS       I find it very interesting that what was once a very PROGRESSIVE idea suddenly became  APARTHEID      To that point in history------since jews had been restricted from owning property in under christian and muslim oppression-----they simply were not farmers ----did not  know how to be farmers and actually had developed, to some extent, an aversion to that kind of work      Once they BOUGHT land-----they would be tempted to hire  CHEAP LABOR   (to wit---arabs)
> 
> 
> 
> If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
Click to expand...

.....then it's groin boy.


----------



## Roudy

loinboy said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Better work on that "bat"-stroke, drivel. The Jewish state is swirling the same racist drain as white South Africa._
> 
> 
> 
> All-predictable drivel-rage, fusillades of drivel in all directions, no argument so far. We win again, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Drivel, huh?
> 
> Here's one of the typical zionist land ownership rules at the time...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Keren Kayemet draft lease: Employment of Jewish labour only*
> 
> "... The lessee undertakes to execute all works connected with the cultivation of the holding *only with Jewish labour*. Failure to comply with this duty by the employment of non-Jewish labour shall render the lessee liable to the payment of compensation ..."
> 
> "The lease also provides that the *holding shall never be held by any but a Jew *..."​ _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Worked by_* "only a jew"*_ and owned by_* "only a jew", *_is pretty fuckin' apartheid to me.
> 
> Drivel, my ass!
Click to expand...

Fake outrage. Musims are the biggest fucking racists and intolerants on the face of this planet today.


----------



## georgephillip

drtywhtboy said:


> Israel leads the World in agricultural development, they lead the world recycled water, they lead the world in Stem cell research, they lead the world in medical research, and they lead the world in citrus exports.....Why would we trade all that for a bunch of terrorist who want to lead the world in killing their young? Their own young at that. Its always the kids who go on tv then blow themselves up...I'll take a nation that's actually doing something good for the world, instead of evil....
> 
> AND WITH THAT I'M DONE...
> ISRAEL FOREVER


They are also among the world leaders in spying on their prime benefactor:

"'The Israeli government is actively engaged in military and industrial espionage in the United States.' That was the conclusion of a Pentagon administrative judge in 2006. One very good reason why Israel should not receive billions of dollars in military assistance annually is its espionage against the United States.

"Israel, a Socialist country where government and business work hand in hand, has obtained significant advantage by systematically stealing American technology with both military and civilian applications."

Phil Giraldi Spills Beans on Israeli Espionage in America | Veterans Today


----------



## georgephillip

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Keep up, it's actually the opposite. More and more people and nations are realizing the animals Israel is up against.  Let's not forget that not too long ago, Isrsel was asked to "negotiate" with that genocidal mass murderer Assad who has now murdered over 17,000 fellow Syrians to save his own skin. It's easy for others to ask Israel to sit across the table from these beasts, another thing when you realize what you're really asking of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel had no trouble negotiating with the White beasts in South Africa...
> 
> "The system preserving this apartheid is more ruthless than that seen in South Africa, where the black were a labor force and could therefore also make a living. It is equipped with the lie of being 'temporary...'"
> 
> "Abba Eban captured the allegation by coining a phrase repeated by the doves of all parties, who never really went to battle over Israel's future and allowed the 'settlement project' to spread. *After all, occupation makes Israelis richer*. Why oppose it?"
> 
> Does the occupation make Israelis richer?
> Of course it does.
> That's why you support it.
> 
> Israel's apartheid is worse than South Africa's - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was South Africa an enemey of Israel, asshole?  No, so other than try to vomit more anti semetic garbage you have nothing else to respond with then.
Click to expand...

Was South Africa an enemy of humanity, Rougey?
Do you personally support apartheid?
Of course you do; not unlike every other rancid, racist reprobate.
Maybe you should run for the Knesset?


----------



## irosie91

Roudy said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> All-predictable drivel-rage, fusillades of drivel in all directions, no argument so far. We win again, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> Drivel, huh?
> 
> Here's one of the typical zionist land ownership rules at the time...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Keren Kayemet draft lease: Employment of Jewish labour only*
> 
> "... The lessee undertakes to execute all works connected with the cultivation of the holding *only with Jewish labour*. Failure to comply with this duty by the employment of non-Jewish labour shall render the lessee liable to the payment of compensation ...
> "The lease also provides that the *holding shall never be held by any but a Jew *..."​ _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Worked by_* "only a jew"*_ and owned by_* "only a jew", *_is pretty fuckin' apartheid to me.
> 
> Drivel, my ass!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fake outrage. Musims are the biggest fucking racists and intolerants on the face of this planet today.
Click to expand...




 an important part of the story that Georgie CHOOSES to leave out is that at the time the keren kayemet   land lease law was developed--     Shariah law denied jews the right to own property and was law---in many  "muslim lands" in which jews lived.     He also leaves out the fact that such laws STILL EXIST UNDER THE FILTH OF JIHADIST LAW    which he clearly supports.     My husband is part of a community of jews that lived in a land  WHICH WAS EVENTUALLY invaded by arabs for more tha 2500 years.     Under muslim rule jews could not own land and those LAWS ARE STILL IN FORCE in that land      -----a reality which renders  Georgie HAPPY AS A CLAM     In fact the real origin of hostilities in Palestine date back to the early  1800s----when the OTTOMANS eased the law regarding jewish ownership of land IN PALESTINE--------the arab muslims were incensed    to the point of  increased throat slitting of jewish infants to the delight of georgie.     Of course all decent people would like to see full rights for ALL PEOPLE------jihadists consider the concept of "full rights"   a muslim right EXCLUSIVELY.    Anything less drives them and georgie to utter distraction


----------



## georgephillip

reabhloideach said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Two recent Israeli High Court rulings follow a disturbing trend. On January 11, divided justices ruled 6 - 5 for Israel's Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law.
> 
> "It denies citizenship rights to Palestinians with Israeli spouses. Enacted in 2003 as temporary legislation, it was extended twice after its initial expiration date.
> 
> "The law empowers the interior minister to grant citizenship only if affected Palestinians identify strongly and cooperate with Israel. They must also contribute to national security. As a result, few qualify.
> 
> "In addition, it limits potential eligibility to Palestinian husbands 36 or older and Palestinian wives at least 26.
> 
> "A Qara village attorney called the decision a 'declaration of war on Israeli Arabs.' A mixed couple said the decision '*will lead to the expulsion of thousands of families from the country*.'
> 
> "The Palestinian wife of another mixed couple got temporary permit permission to live with her husband in Acre without legal rights extended Israeli citizens. Her husband, a Haifa University doctoral candidate, wasn't surprised by the ruling, saying:
> 
> "'*The decision is proof that one shouldn't have faith in the Israeli judicial system*. It is clear that the Supreme Court is influenced by the *wave of fascism and racism sweeping Israe*l, and the judges weren't expected to act any other way.'"
> 
> Waves of fascism and racism that will swamp the Jewish state unless Jews living there decide if they want to exist in a democratic state or a Jewish one; it's not too different from what we're facing in the US; do we want to live in a democracy or a plutocracy?
> 
> What's your choice?
> 
> Racist Israeli Supreme Court Decisions
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is like heaven compared to any Muslim shithole, including the Palestinians. Remember over 20% of Israelis are Arab Israelis, and the worlds major faiths including Christianity and  Bahaiism have their holiest sites there, and feel totally comfortable and grateful that Israelis are in charge of the place. If you want institutionalized hatred and intolerance, check any Muslim shithole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Johannes Martarsian was walking in the Old City in May 2008 when an young ultra-Orthodox Jew spat at him. Maratersian punched the spitter in the face, making him bleed, and was charged for assault. But Judge Dov Pollock, who *unexpectedly* annulled the indictment, wrote in his verdict that "putting the defendant on trial for a single blow at a man who spat at his face, after suffering the degradation of being spat on for years while walking around in his church robes is a fundamental contravention of the principles of justice and decency."
> 
> Ultra-Orthodox spitting attacks on Old City clergymen becoming daily Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper
Click to expand...

"When Narek Garabedian came to Israel to study in the Armenian Seminary in Jerusalem half a year ago, he did not expect the insults, curses and spitting he would be subjected to daily by ultra-Orthodox Jews in the streets of the Old City.

"'When I see an ultra-Orthodox man coming toward me in the street, I always ask myself if he will spit at me,' says Narek, a Canadian Armenian, this week. About a month ago, on his way to buy groceries in the Old City, two ultra-Orthodox men spat at him. The spittle did not fall at his feet but on his person. *Narek, a former football player*, decided this time not to turn the other cheek.

"'I was very angry. I pushed them both to the wall and asked, "why are you doing this?" They were frightened and said "we're sorry, we're sorry," so I let them go. But it isn't always like that. Sometimes the spitter attacks you back,' he says."

Ultra-Orthodox spitting attacks on Old City clergymen becoming daily Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper

Will the ultra-Orthodox be the final nail in the coffin of the Jewish state?


----------



## irosie91

My hubby was a child in Jerusalem before  1948----at one point being treated for a crippling illness with lots of other kids-------he said all the kids were afraid to go near the armenian church because the priests abused them ,     The crippled kids did not stand a chance     He did not even know what the religion of those priests was-----he described them to me-----long black robes--big hats and beards-----out of chruch ---he knew it was a church because of the big cross and the priests who seem to like to slaughter chickens on saturday and chase crippled kids       It seems to me that the relationship between jews and armenian priests in Jerusalem has not been good for a long time.   I am not advocating spitting-- but would make a case for  SEPARATION.      Some hatreds are simply INHERITED  as a family legacy----I believe that the  "ultra orthodox"   (who btw are generally naturei karta----ie the ones who do not recognize Israel as a state)    are more likely to carry their FAMILY HATRED LEGACY than other people    The are an isolated people.     I do not believe that the NATUREI KARTA   will last much longer-----lots of them leave that group.   They do have a high birth rate------but I still do not believe that as a group they will survive-----too backward


----------



## patrickcaturday

> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another un-educated twerp squeeks.
> 
> 
> 
> "Two recent Israeli High Court rulings follow a disturbing trend. On January 11, divided justices ruled 6 - 5 for Israel's Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law.
> 
> "It denies citizenship rights to Palestinians with Israeli spouses. Enacted in 2003 as temporary legislation, it was extended twice after its initial expiration date.
> 
> "The law empowers the interior minister to grant citizenship only if affected Palestinians identify strongly and cooperate with Israel. They must also contribute to national security. As a result, few qualify.
> 
> "In addition, it limits potential eligibility to Palestinian husbands 36 or older and Palestinian wives at least 26.
> 
> "A Qara village attorney called the decision a 'declaration of war on Israeli Arabs.' A mixed couple said the decision '*will lead to the expulsion of thousands of families from the country*.'
> 
> "The Palestinian wife of another mixed couple got temporary permit permission to live with her husband in Acre without legal rights extended Israeli citizens. Her husband, a Haifa University doctoral candidate, wasn't surprised by the ruling, saying:
> 
> "'*The decision is proof that one shouldn't have faith in the Israeli judicial system*. It is clear that the Supreme Court is influenced by the *wave of fascism and racism sweeping Israe*l, and the judges weren't expected to act any other way.'"
> 
> Waves of fascism and racism that will swamp the Jewish state unless Jews living there decide if they want to exist in a democratic state or a Jewish one; it's not too different from what we're facing in the US; do we want to live in a democracy or a plutocracy?
> 
> What's your choice?
> 
> Racist Israeli Supreme Court Decisions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is like heaven compared to any Muslim shithole, including the Palestinians. Remember over 20% of Israelis are Arab Israelis, and the worlds major faiths including Christianity and  Bahaiism have their holiest sites there, and feel totally comfortable and grateful that Israelis are in charge of the place. If you want institutionalized hatred and intolerance, check any Muslim shithole.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



*Roudy: *


*Why is it that Zionists always compare Israel to Muslim Countries in the ME.  Are they afraid to compare them to other more civilized countries then they are because they know if they did they would come off looking like idiots.  Come on, Zionists if you want to play in the bigs compare them to others in the majors like Canada, New Zealand, The US, or Ireland.  Maybe even compare them to South Africa, no wait you wouldn't want to do that as SA is no longer Apartheid and you still are.



" If you want institutionalized hatred and intolerance, check... " with Roudy seeing as how he seems to be the expert on projecting racism on this board, what with his calling human beings animals and other countries shitholes.  Seems as if it is impossible for him to climb out of the gutter.*


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel had no trouble negotiating with the White beasts in South Africa...
> 
> "The system preserving this apartheid is more ruthless than that seen in South Africa, where the black were a labor force and could therefore also make a living. It is equipped with the lie of being 'temporary...'"
> 
> "Abba Eban captured the allegation by coining a phrase repeated by the doves of all parties, who never really went to battle over Israel's future and allowed the 'settlement project' to spread. *After all, occupation makes Israelis richer*. Why oppose it?"
> 
> Does the occupation make Israelis richer?
> Of course it does.
> That's why you support it.
> 
> Israel's apartheid is worse than South Africa's - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper
> 
> 
> 
> Was South Africa an enemey of Israel, asshole?  No, so other than try to vomit more anti semetic garbage you have nothing else to respond with then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was South Africa an enemy of humanity, Rougey?
> Do you personally support apartheid?
> Of course you do; not unlike every other rancid, racist reprobate.
> Maybe you should run for the Knesset?
Click to expand...

I don't support apartheid, dork, but if it's aparthied, hate, or racism that is bothering you, then take a look at Muslim countries, NOT Israel. You are a very transparent IslamoNazi.


----------



## Roudy

patrickcaturday said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is like heaven compared to any Muslim shithole, including the Palestinians. Remember over 20% of Israelis are Arab Israelis, and the worlds major faiths including Christianity and  Bahaiism have their holiest sites there, and feel totally comfortable and grateful that Israelis are in charge of the place. If you want institutionalized hatred and intolerance, check any Muslim shithole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Roudy: *
> 
> 
> *Why is it that Zionists always compare Israel to Muslim Countries in the ME.  Are they afraid to compare them to other more civilized countries then they are because they know if they did they would come off looking like idiots.  Come on, Zionists if you want to play in the bigs compare them to others in the majors like Canada, New Zealand, The US, or Ireland.  Maybe even compare them to South Africa, no wait you wouldn't want to do that as SA is no longer Apartheid and you still are.
> 
> 
> 
> " If you want institutionalized hatred and intolerance, check... " with Roudy seeing as how he seems to be the expert on projecting racism on this board, what with his calling human beings animals and other countries shitholes.  Seems as if it is impossible for him to climb out of the gutter.*
Click to expand...

Why is it that those of you that side with Muslims and Palestinians, always complain when the false accusations you lobb at Israel are most applicable to Israel's enemies, those you support.


----------



## georgephillip

irosie91 said:


> The Keren Kayemet  land lease thing was designed to PUT JEWS TO WORK in occupations with which they had no real prior exerperience----to wit  FARMING-----and to avoid the exploitation of  "CHEAP ARAB LABOR"      It precedes the establishment of the state of Israel  ------and has absolutely nothing to do with  apartheid   At the time it was designed---it was something which would have been called very  "LEFTIST"    The concept was to NOT CREATE THE ARAB POPULATION into that which the Ottomans had created them----essentially SERFS       I find it very interesting that what was once a very PROGRESSIVE idea suddenly became  APARTHEID      To that point in history------since jews had been restricted from owning property in under christian and muslim oppression-----they simply were not farmers ----did not  know how to be farmers and actually had developed, to some extent, an aversion to that kind of work      Once they BOUGHT land-----they would be tempted to hire  CHEAP LABOR   (to wit---arabs)


It became APARTHEID when one-third of the citizens of Mandate Palestine imposed a Jewish state by force of arms on their neighbors in 1948:

"After Israel's establishment in 1948, there was a debate concerning the future of the JNF(keren Kayemet). 

"Initially the government wanted to dismantle it, but after the United Nations General Assembly passed Resolution 194 calling for Arab refugees to be allowed back into their homes, the JNF was seen as a mechanism by which land which was previously owned by Arabs could be legally purchased by Jews.[citation needed] 

"Accordingly, the government began to sell these 'absentee' lands to the JNF..." 

"Over the years questions about the legitimacy of these transactions have been raised but Israeli legislation has generally supported the JNF's land claims.[16][17][18] A later study appeared to show that the state had received a full price from the JNF for these 'absentee' lands..."

"After concentrating on the centre and northern part of the young state, the JNF-KKL started supporting Jewish settlements around the Negev border from around 1965. After the Six-Day War in 1967, the JNF-KKL started work in the newly occupied Palestinian territories as well."

Jewish National Fund - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you find it interesting how regressives often blame progressives when greed wins out?


----------



## patrickcaturday

> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> patrickcaturday said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Roudy: *
> 
> 
> *Why is it that Zionists always compare Israel to Muslim Countries in the ME.  Are they afraid to compare them to other more civilized countries then they are because they know if they did they would come off looking like idiots.  Come on, Zionists if you want to play in the bigs compare them to others in the majors like Canada, New Zealand, The US, or Ireland.  Maybe even compare them to South Africa, no wait you wouldn't want to do that as SA is no longer Apartheid and you still are.
> 
> 
> 
> " If you want institutionalized hatred and intolerance, check... " with Roudy seeing as how he seems to be the expert on projecting racism on this board, what with his calling human beings animals and other countries shitholes.  Seems as if it is impossible for him to climb out of the gutter.*
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it that those of you that side with Muslims and Palestinians, always complain when the false accusations you lobb at Israel are most applicable to Israel's enemies, those you support.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



*You want an answer to your question, you already answered it and I will qupte you;*


> I don't support apartheid, dork, but if it's aparthied, hate, or racism that is bothering you, then take a look at Muslim countries, NOT Israel. You are a very transparent IslamoNazi.
> by Roudy



*The reason that I frequently come back to that question is because you and other Zionists never seem to have an answer to it except to compare them to the worst of the worst over and over again.  It is like someone saying I am less guilty because I only killed 15 and the other person killed 16.  Wait that doesn't work because Israel always kills more people then the palestinians do.  Regardless why can't, maybe won't is better, you answer the question .  Is it possible that you are ashamed of Israel.*


----------



## georgephillip

Roudy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is like heaven compared to any Muslim shithole, including the Palestinians. Remember over 20% of Israelis are Arab Israelis, and the worlds major faiths including Christianity and  Bahaiism have their holiest sites there, and feel totally comfortable and grateful that Israelis are in charge of the place. If you want institutionalized hatred and intolerance, check any Muslim shithole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Johannes Martarsian was walking in the Old City in May 2008 when an young ultra-Orthodox Jew spat at him. Maratersian punched the spitter in the face, making him bleed, and was charged for assault. But Judge Dov Pollock, who *unexpectedly* annulled the indictment, wrote in his verdict that "putting the defendant on trial for a single blow at a man who spat at his face, after suffering the degradation of being spat on for years while walking around in his church robes is a fundamental contravention of the principles of justice and decency."
> 
> Ultra-Orthodox spitting attacks on Old City clergymen becoming daily Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that before or after the Palestinian terrorists barged into an ancient Church in Bethlehem, held the priest hostage, and used ancient Bibles, some of them artifacts, AS TOILET PAPER?
> 
> You really have a problem grasping the reality of the intolerance, hate, and violence that Muslims harbor towards non Muslims.
> 
> The Beleaguered Christians of the Palestinian-Controlled Areas, by David Raab
Click to expand...

While your solution seems to require the acceptance Jewish extremists killing and stealing for the greater glory of Greater Israel. The villains on all sides are those who profit most from the lies their fundamentalists tell.


----------



## irosie91

it is very reasonable to COMPARE   Israel with the sorrounding arab countries------for TWO REASONS      Israel exists in the enviornment of arab countries  and more than half of the population has a family legacy in arab countries.   The ARAB CULTURE,  is therefore, very important in israel  and the experience of jews in arab countries is important.    I am always impressed with pro jihadists who justify the actions of arab terrorists based on their "suffering"  at the hands of jews------yet none of the same people consider the experience jews carry as a family heritage having lived in muslim countries----besides, of course, the ongoing constant threat of arab terrorism.    I can assure you idiots-----the sense of danger that jews of european background in Israel have is NOTHING compared to the sense of danger that jews of north african background have.   The first question I would ask about an israeli soldier who is accused of being trigger happy------"where were his parents born"?      Anyone here  consider from whence came the assassin of Rabin?      anyone know where his parents were from?     For the record----Yigal Amir decided that  RABIN TRUSTED THE ARABS TOO MUCH OUT OF SHEER IGNORANCE AND WAS,  THEREFORE.  A GREAT DANGER TO ISRAEL.   I see no reason to imagine that a history of LIVING IN AN ARAB COUNTRY  would not have an effect on a person to the extent that he might make COMPARISONS and wonder why he is supposed to be SO MUCH NICER especially when he is holding a gun and the other side is lobbing rockets at his head


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Johannes Martarsian was walking in the Old City in May 2008 when an young ultra-Orthodox Jew spat at him. Maratersian punched the spitter in the face, making him bleed, and was charged for assault. But Judge Dov Pollock, who *unexpectedly* annulled the indictment, wrote in his verdict that "putting the defendant on trial for a single blow at a man who spat at his face, after suffering the degradation of being spat on for years while walking around in his church robes is a fundamental contravention of the principles of justice and decency."
> 
> Ultra-Orthodox spitting attacks on Old City clergymen becoming daily Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper
> 
> 
> 
> Is that before or after the Palestinian terrorists barged into an ancient Church in Bethlehem, held the priest hostage, and used ancient Bibles, some of them artifacts, AS TOILET PAPER?
> 
> You really have a problem grasping the reality of the intolerance, hate, and violence that Muslims harbor towards non Muslims.
> 
> The Beleaguered Christians of the Palestinian-Controlled Areas, by David Raab
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While your solution seems to require the acceptance Jewish extremists killing and stealing for the greater glory of Greater Israel. The villains on all sides are those who profit most from the lies their fundamentalists tell.
Click to expand...

Ain't the Jewish extremists killing people, you moron, it's the Islamists and the Jihadists. What are you, blind, deaf, and dumb?


----------



## Roudy

patrickcaturday said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it that those of you that side with Muslims and Palestinians, always complain when the false accusations you lobb at Israel are most applicable to Israel's enemies, those you support.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *You want an answer to your question, you already answered it and I will qupte you;*
> 
> 
> 
> I don't support apartheid, dork, but if it's aparthied, hate, or racism that is bothering you, then take a look at Muslim countries, NOT Israel. You are a very transparent IslamoNazi.
> by Roudy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The reason that I frequently come back to that question is because you and other Zionists never seem to have an answer to it except to compare them to the worst of the worst over and over again.  It is like someone saying I am less guilty because I only killed 15 and the other person killed 16.  Wait that doesn't work because Israel always kills more people then the palestinians do.  Regardless why can't, maybe won't is better, you answer the question .  Is it possible that you are ashamed of Israel.*
Click to expand...

Eh?  The worst of the worst are Israel's enemies, the same people you defend. Number of causalities doesn't make a side wrong or right. Need I remind you that the US lost 365,000 lives as opposed to Nazi Germany's 9 million?  And compared to Western countries I think Israel has actually been kind to the animals. No sane country would sit there like Israel does, and take thousands of rockets being shot at it without dropping the big one, or carpet bombing it into oblivion.


----------



## irosie91

there is no EXISTENCE in the absence of COMPARISON-----I see no reason to NOT compare two groups in conflict with each other       The US dropped a nuclear bomb on the japanese not because of US BARBARITY-----but because the US was  fighting an extremely and fevently  barbaric enemy and was desperate to stop them      When the  Israeli land trust was first established----the people who established it knew that  MUSLIMS BELIEVE THAT JEWS HAVE NO RIGHT TO OWN LAND    ---its a law of their religion-----so the people who established the land trust took precaustions to keep the land in "jewish hands"      For those who do not know----there is actually an ISLAMIC LAW  that once a muslim owns any land at all------that land is  MUSLIM LAND FOREVER        For those who do not know-----there are people in the US and in the UK who believe that once a mosque is built on a piece of land----THAT LAND IS MUSLIM LAND FOREVER       It gets worse-----If a muslim big shot happens to be killed doing  JIHAD----the place he dies is supposed to be MUSLIM LAND forever too.----------make sure that if a muslim had a heart attack in your house----you get him out before he is dead     Remember when muslims occupied a CHURCH  in Israel?        the priests were very worried that one of them would get killed and the church would be turned into a  MUSLIM SHRINE


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Israel had no trouble negotiating with the White beasts in South Africa..."The system preserving this apartheid is more ruthless than that seen in South Africa, where the black were a labor force and could therefore also make a living. It is equipped with the lie of being 'temporary...'"
> "Abba Eban captured the allegation by coining a phrase repeated by the doves of all parties, who never really went to battle over Israel's future and allowed the 'settlement project' to spread. After all, occupation makes Israelis richer. Why oppose it?"_
> 
> 
> 
> Leftist driiiivel.
Click to expand...

What's worse than doing business with apartheid South Africa...

"*The CIA considers Israel its No. 1 counterintelligence threat* in the agency's Near East Division, the group that oversees spying across the Middle East, according to current and former officials. Counterintelligence is the art of protecting national secrets from spies. 

"*This means the CIA believes that U.S. national secrets are safer from other Middle Eastern governments than from Israel."*

...biting the hand that feeds it?

News from The Associated Press


----------



## georgephillip

irosie91 said:


> there is no question that the early zionists were trying to create  a country which would be a refuge for jews-----a refuge from both christian and muslim oppression.     There is no question that they envisioned a land populated by jews      If christian and muslim oppression had not existed-----there would probably still be an Israel----since the area had been considered  "holy"   to jews for more than 3000 years------and the religion does actually teach that it is far better to live there than anywhere else  ------the part that would not have happened would have been the  FIGHT  to get that land.   Jews would have been there continuously and no one else would have an interest in it.    The only reason muslims want it is because they feel a need to control the entire Middle east-----Islam is a very imperialistic ideology


*How many "strategic attacks" have Muslim governments launched *against civilian infrastructure on the opposite side of the globe from their homeland?

"Case in point. Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime. 

"Hard then to explain the 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people. An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled 'Strategic Attack,' chillingly explains: 'The electrical attacks proved extremely effective ... The loss of electricity shut down the capital's water treatment plants and led to a public health crisis from raw sewage dumped in the Tigris River.' 

"A second US Defense Intelligence Agency document, 1991's 'Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities,' predicted how sanctions would then be used to prevent Iraq from getting the equipment and chemicals necessary for water purification, which would result in 'a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population' leading to 'increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.'"

*How many incidents "if not epidemics of disease...?*

Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Fake outrage. Musims are the biggest fucking racists and intolerants on the face of this planet today.


No *Roudy*, you are!

You're also the biggest coward on the planet.


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Israel had no trouble negotiating with the White beasts in South Africa..."The system preserving this apartheid is more ruthless than that seen in South Africa, where the black were a labor force and could therefore also make a living. It is equipped with the lie of being 'temporary...'"
> "Abba Eban captured the allegation by coining a phrase repeated by the doves of all parties, who never really went to battle over Israel's future and allowed the 'settlement project' to spread. After all, occupation makes Israelis richer. Why oppose it?"_
> 
> 
> 
> Leftist driiiivel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's worse than doing business with apartheid South Africa...
> 
> "*The CIA considers Israel its No. 1 counterintelligence threat* in the agency's Near East Division, the group that oversees spying across the Middle East, according to current and former officials. Counterintelligence is the art of protecting national secrets from spies.
> 
> "*This means the CIA believes that U.S. national secrets are safer from other Middle Eastern governments than from Israel."*
> 
> ...biting the hand that feeds it?
> 
> News from The Associated Press
Click to expand...

Ya right. You been smoking that camel dung hash again?  Maybe in your fantasy world would the US sell out it's friendship with Israel over Muslim savages.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Ain't the Jewish extremists killing people, you moron, it's the Islamists and the Jihadists. What are you, blind, deaf, and dumb?


I suppose the Mossad is just a yiddish boys club, replacing Bibles for Torah's in hotel bedrooms?


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Ya right. You been smoking that camel dung hash again?  Maybe in your fantasy world would the US sell out it's friendship with Israel over Muslim savages.


He provided a link, dumbass!

What did I tell you about trying to argue with the big boy's?


----------



## Roudy

loinboy said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fake outrage. Musims are the biggest fucking racists and intolerants on the face of this planet today.
> 
> 
> 
> No *Roudy*, you are!
> 
> You're also the biggest coward on the planet.
Click to expand...

Do you ever stop whining? You're worse than a 13 year old going through puberty!  Do you actually enjoy it when I bitchslap your phony ass?


----------



## Roudy

loinboy said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya right. You been smoking that camel dung hash again?  Maybe in your fantasy world would the US sell out it's friendship with Israel over Muslim savages.
> 
> 
> 
> He provided a link, dumbass!
> 
> What did I tell you about trying to argue with the big boy's?
Click to expand...

And I'll provide you a hundered links showing the CIA and Mossad's close cooperation on many levels.  Pffffft!!

Alexander Gostev, an expert at Kaspersky Labs, said in an email that the Russian cyber security software company discovered a similarity between a subset of the code used in Flame and code used in the Stuxnet virus.

Stuxnet was developed collaboratively between Israel and the United States for the explicit purpose of disabling computer networks in Iran, although Israeli intelligence denies this, according to Mossad agents who say they created the malware and Obama is taking credit for unleashing it against Iran&#8217;s fledgling nuclear program as propaganda in his re-election bid.*According to author David E. Sanger, Obama decided to accelerate cyberattacks initiated during the Bush administration. Sanger says the project&#8217;s codename was Olympic Games and it began in 2006.

Israel and the United States &#8211; the CIA and Mossad &#8211; represent the vanguard of the emerging cyber security threat.

http://pakistancyberforce.blogspot.com/2012/06/cia-mossad-flame-and-stuxnet-related.html


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> And I'll provide you a hundered links showing the CIA and Mossad's close cooperation on many levels.  Pffffft!!
> 
> Alexander Gostev, an expert at Kaspersky Labs, said in an email that the Russian cyber security software company discovered a similarity between a subset of the code used in Flame and code used in the Stuxnet virus.
> 
> Stuxnet was developed collaboratively between Israel and the United States for the explicit purpose of disabling computer networks in Iran, although Israeli intelligence denies this, according to Mossad agents who say they created the malware and Obama is taking credit for unleashing it against Irans fledgling nuclear program as propaganda in his re-election bid.*According to author David E. Sanger, Obama decided to accelerate cyberattacks initiated during the Bush administration. Sanger says the projects codename was Olympic Games and it began in 2006.
> 
> Israel and the United States  the CIA and Mossad  represent the vanguard of the emerging cyber security threat.
> 
> Pakistan Cyber Force: CIA - Mossad produced Flame and Stuxnet Related: Computer Experts


Just propaganda and spin control, not much different than the USS Liberty cover-up.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Do you ever stop whining? You're worse than a 13 year old going through puberty!  Do you actually enjoy it when I bitchslap your phony ass?


That doesn't refute your overt racism and intolerance.


----------



## Roudy

loinboy said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I'll provide you a hundered links showing the CIA and Mossad's close cooperation on many levels.  Pffffft!!
> 
> Alexander Gostev, an expert at Kaspersky Labs, said in an email that the Russian cyber security software company discovered a similarity between a subset of the code used in Flame and code used in the Stuxnet virus.
> 
> Stuxnet was developed collaboratively between Israel and the United States for the explicit purpose of disabling computer networks in Iran, although Israeli intelligence denies this, according to Mossad agents who say they created the malware and Obama is taking credit for unleashing it against Irans fledgling nuclear program as propaganda in his re-election bid.*According to author David E. Sanger, Obama decided to accelerate cyberattacks initiated during the Bush administration. Sanger says the projects codename was Olympic Games and it began in 2006.
> 
> Israel and the United States  the CIA and Mossad  represent the vanguard of the emerging cyber security threat.
> 
> Pakistan Cyber Force: CIA - Mossad produced Flame and Stuxnet Related: Computer Experts
> 
> 
> 
> Just propaganda and spin control, not much different than the USS Liberty cover-up.
Click to expand...

You didn't realize this was from an anti-American / anti-Israel Pakistani based website...aka YOUR SIDE?  Ha ha ha!


----------



## georgephillip

Roudy said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya right. You been smoking that camel dung hash again?  Maybe in your fantasy world would the US sell out it's friendship with Israel over Muslim savages.
> 
> 
> 
> He provided a link, dumbass!
> 
> What did I tell you about trying to argue with the big boy's?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I'll provide you a hundered links showing the CIA and Mossad's close cooperation on many levels.  Pffffft!!
> 
> Alexander Gostev, an expert at Kaspersky Labs, said in an email that the Russian cyber security software company discovered a similarity between a subset of the code used in Flame and code used in the Stuxnet virus.
> 
> Stuxnet was developed collaboratively between Israel and the United States for the explicit purpose of disabling computer networks in Iran, although Israeli intelligence denies this, according to Mossad agents who say they created the malware and Obama is taking credit for unleashing it against Iran&#8217;s fledgling nuclear program as propaganda in his re-election bid.*According to author David E. Sanger, Obama decided to accelerate cyberattacks initiated during the Bush administration. Sanger says the project&#8217;s codename was Olympic Games and it began in 2006.
> 
> Israel and the United States &#8211; the CIA and Mossad &#8211; represent the vanguard of the emerging cyber security threat.
> 
> Pakistan Cyber Force: CIA - Mossad produced Flame and Stuxnet Related: Computer Experts
Click to expand...

And if the Iranians had turned Stuxnet loose on the CIA and Mossad, you would be whining about Persian terrorists.

"The counterintelligence worries continue even as the U.S. relationship with Israel features close cooperation on intelligence programs that reportedly included the Stuxnet computer virus that attacked computers in Iran's main nuclear enrichment facilities. 

"While the alliance is central to the U.S. approach in the Middle East, there is room for intense disagreement, especially in the diplomatic turmoil over Iran's nuclear ambitions.

"'It's a complicated relationship,' said Joseph Wippl, a former senior CIA clandestine officer and head of the agency's office of congressional affairs. 'They have their interests. We have our interests. For the U.S., it's a balancing act.'"

It's especially complicated by the fact that Israel would not even exist without the US taxpayer.
Politicians who champion Israeli interests over those of the US should face charges of treason.

News from The Associated Press


----------



## irosie91

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> He provided a link, dumbass!
> 
> What did I tell you about trying to argue with the big boy's?
> 
> 
> 
> And I'll provide you a hundered links showing the CIA and Mossad's close cooperation on many levels.  Pffffft!!
> 
> Alexander Gostev, an expert at Kaspersky Labs, said in an email that the Russian cyber security software company discovered a similarity between a subset of the code used in Flame and code used in the Stuxnet virus.
> 
> Stuxnet was developed collaboratively between Israel and the United States for the explicit purpose of disabling computer networks in Iran, although Israeli intelligence denies this, according to Mossad agents who say they created the malware and Obama is taking credit for unleashing it against Irans fledgling nuclear program as propaganda in his re-election bid.*According to author David E. Sanger, Obama decided to accelerate cyberattack
> initiated during the Bush administration. Sanger says the projects codename was Olympic Games and it began in 2006.
> 
> Israel and the United States  the CIA and Mossad  represent the vanguard of the emerging cyber security threat.
> 
> Pakistan Cyber Force: CIA - Mossad produced Flame and Stuxnet Related: Computer Experts[/QUOT
> And if the Iranians had turned Stuxnet loose on the CIA and Mossad, you would be whining about Persian terrorists.
> 
> "The counterintelligence worries continue even as the U.S. relationship with Israel features close cooperation on intelligence programs that reportedly included the Stuxnet computer virus that attacked computers in Iran's main nuclear enrichment facilities.
> 
> 
> "While the alliance is central to the U.S. approach in the Middle East, there is room for intense disagreement, especially in the diplomatic turmoil over Iran's nuclear ambitions.
> 
> "'It's a complicated relationship,' said Joseph Wippl, a former senior CIA clandestine officer and head of the agency's office of congressional affairs. 'They have their interests. We have our interests. For the U.S., it's a balancing act.'"
> 
> It's especially complicated by the fact that Israel would not even exist without the US taxpayer.
> Politicians who champion Israeli interests over those of the US should face charges of treason.
> 
> News from The Associated Press
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> For the record    Israel existed long before it was getting AIDE from the USA  which actually started sometime around  1970       US citizens are legally allowed to champion just about ay cause----now that  Mc Carthy is dead
Click to expand...


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> He provided a link, dumbass!
> 
> What did I tell you about trying to argue with the big boy's?
> 
> 
> 
> And I'll provide you a hundered links showing the CIA and Mossad's close cooperation on many levels.  Pffffft!!
> 
> Alexander Gostev, an expert at Kaspersky Labs, said in an email that the Russian cyber security software company discovered a similarity between a subset of the code used in Flame and code used in the Stuxnet virus.
> 
> Stuxnet was developed collaboratively between Israel and the United States for the explicit purpose of disabling computer networks in Iran, although Israeli intelligence denies this, according to Mossad agents who say they created the malware and Obama is taking credit for unleashing it against Iran&#8217;s fledgling nuclear program as propaganda in his re-election bid.*According to author David E. Sanger, Obama decided to accelerate cyberattacks initiated during the Bush administration. Sanger says the project&#8217;s codename was Olympic Games and it began in 2006.
> 
> Israel and the United States &#8211; the CIA and Mossad &#8211; represent the vanguard of the emerging cyber security threat.
> 
> Pakistan Cyber Force: CIA - Mossad produced Flame and Stuxnet Related: Computer Experts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And if the Iranians had turned Stuxnet loose on the CIA and Mossad, you would be whining about Persian terrorists.
> 
> "The counterintelligence worries continue even as the U.S. relationship with Israel features close cooperation on intelligence programs that reportedly included the Stuxnet computer virus that attacked computers in Iran's main nuclear enrichment facilities.
> 
> "While the alliance is central to the U.S. approach in the Middle East, there is room for intense disagreement, especially in the diplomatic turmoil over Iran's nuclear ambitions.
> 
> "'It's a complicated relationship,' said Joseph Wippl, a former senior CIA clandestine officer and head of the agency's office of congressional affairs. 'They have their interests. We have our interests. For the U.S., it's a balancing act.'"
> 
> It's especially complicated by the fact that Israel would not even exist without the US taxpayer.
> Politicians who champion Israeli interests over those of the US should face charges of treason.
> 
> News from The Associated Press
Click to expand...

What's your point, donkey?


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> He provided a link, dumbass!
> 
> What did I tell you about trying to argue with the big boy's?
> 
> 
> 
> And I'll provide you a hundered links showing the CIA and Mossad's close cooperation on many levels.  Pffffft!!
> 
> Alexander Gostev, an expert at Kaspersky Labs, said in an email that the Russian cyber security software company discovered a similarity between a subset of the code used in Flame and code used in the Stuxnet virus.
> 
> Stuxnet was developed collaboratively between Israel and the United States for the explicit purpose of disabling computer networks in Iran, although Israeli intelligence denies this, according to Mossad agents who say they created the malware and Obama is taking credit for unleashing it against Iran&#8217;s fledgling nuclear program as propaganda in his re-election bid.*According to author David E. Sanger, Obama decided to accelerate cyberattacks initiated during the Bush administration. Sanger says the project&#8217;s codename was Olympic Games and it began in 2006.
> 
> Israel and the United States &#8211; the CIA and Mossad &#8211; represent the vanguard of the emerging cyber security threat.
> 
> Pakistan Cyber Force: CIA - Mossad produced Flame and Stuxnet Related: Computer Experts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And if the Iranians had turned Stuxnet loose on the CIA and Mossad, you would be whining about Persian terrorists.
> 
> "The counterintelligence worries continue even as the U.S. relationship with Israel features close cooperation on intelligence programs that reportedly included the Stuxnet computer virus that attacked computers in Iran's main nuclear enrichment facilities.
> 
> "While the alliance is central to the U.S. approach in the Middle East, there is room for intense disagreement, especially in the diplomatic turmoil over Iran's nuclear ambitions.
> 
> "'It's a complicated relationship,' said Joseph Wippl, a former senior CIA clandestine officer and head of the agency's office of congressional affairs. 'They have their interests. We have our interests. For the U.S., it's a balancing act.'"
> 
> It's especially complicated by the fact that Israel would not even exist without the US taxpayer.
> Politicians who champion Israeli interests over those of the US should face charges of treason.
> 
> News from The Associated Press
Click to expand...

Quote from GeorgePhillip

 It's especially complicated by the fact that Israel would not even exist without the US taxpayer.
Politicians who champion Israeli interests over those of the US should face charges of treason.


As a citizen, George you have the right to go to your nearest District Court and file treason charges against those champions. Do your duty.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I'll provide you a hundered links showing the CIA and Mossad's close cooperation on many levels.  Pffffft!!
> 
> Alexander Gostev, an expert at Kaspersky Labs, said in an email that the Russian cyber security software company discovered a similarity between a subset of the code used in Flame and code used in the Stuxnet virus.
> 
> Stuxnet was developed collaboratively between Israel and the United States for the explicit purpose of disabling computer networks in Iran, although Israeli intelligence denies this, according to Mossad agents who say they created the malware and Obama is taking credit for unleashing it against Irans fledgling nuclear program as propaganda in his re-election bid.*According to author David E. Sanger, Obama decided to accelerate cyberattacks initiated during the Bush administration. Sanger says the projects codename was Olympic Games and it began in 2006.
> 
> Israel and the United States  the CIA and Mossad  represent the vanguard of the emerging cyber security threat.
> 
> Pakistan Cyber Force: CIA - Mossad produced Flame and Stuxnet Related: Computer Experts
> 
> 
> 
> And if the Iranians had turned Stuxnet loose on the CIA and Mossad, you would be whining about Persian terrorists.
> 
> "The counterintelligence worries continue even as the U.S. relationship with Israel features close cooperation on intelligence programs that reportedly included the Stuxnet computer virus that attacked computers in Iran's main nuclear enrichment facilities.
> 
> "While the alliance is central to the U.S. approach in the Middle East, there is room for intense disagreement, especially in the diplomatic turmoil over Iran's nuclear ambitions.
> 
> "'It's a complicated relationship,' said Joseph Wippl, a former senior CIA clandestine officer and head of the agency's office of congressional affairs. 'They have their interests. We have our interests. For the U.S., it's a balancing act.'"
> 
> It's especially complicated by the fact that Israel would not even exist without the US taxpayer.
> Politicians who champion Israeli interests over those of the US should face charges of treason.
> 
> News from The Associated Press
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote from GeorgePhillip
> 
> It's especially complicated by the fact that Israel would not even exist without the US taxpayer.
> Politicians who champion Israeli interests over those of the US should face charges of treason.
> 
> 
> As a citizen, George you have the right to go to your nearest District Court and file treason charges against those champions. Do your duty.
Click to expand...


It is true that real US support didn't start until after the '67 war but Israel has lived on the mooch since before it was called Israel.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> And if the Iranians had turned Stuxnet loose on the CIA and Mossad, you would be whining about Persian terrorists.
> 
> "The counterintelligence worries continue even as the U.S. relationship with Israel features close cooperation on intelligence programs that reportedly included the Stuxnet computer virus that attacked computers in Iran's main nuclear enrichment facilities.
> 
> "While the alliance is central to the U.S. approach in the Middle East, there is room for intense disagreement, especially in the diplomatic turmoil over Iran's nuclear ambitions.
> 
> "'It's a complicated relationship,' said Joseph Wippl, a former senior CIA clandestine officer and head of the agency's office of congressional affairs. 'They have their interests. We have our interests. For the U.S., it's a balancing act.'"
> 
> It's especially complicated by the fact that Israel would not even exist without the US taxpayer.
> Politicians who champion Israeli interests over those of the US should face charges of treason.
> 
> News from The Associated Press
> 
> 
> 
> Quote from GeorgePhillip
> 
> It's especially complicated by the fact that Israel would not even exist without the US taxpayer.
> Politicians who champion Israeli interests over those of the US should face charges of treason.
> 
> 
> As a citizen, George you have the right to go to your nearest District Court and file treason charges against those champions. Do your duty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is true that real US support didn't start until after the '67 war but Israel has lived on the mooch since before it was called Israel.
Click to expand...

Why do you suppose that is? Why would the US be giving money to Israel when we are having a recession? Incidently, that amount of money is a pittance compared to what all the other countries get from us. Why don't you bitch about those other countries? Yes, we know you never say anything bad against the Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Quote from GeorgePhillip
> 
> It's especially complicated by the fact that Israel would not even exist without the US taxpayer.
> Politicians who champion Israeli interests over those of the US should face charges of treason.
> 
> 
> As a citizen, George you have the right to go to your nearest District Court and file treason charges against those champions. Do your duty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is true that real US support didn't start until after the '67 war but Israel has lived on the mooch since before it was called Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you suppose that is? Why would the US be giving money to Israel when we are having a recession? Incidently, that amount of money is a pittance compared to what all the other countries get from us. Why don't you bitch about those other countries? Yes, we know you never say anything bad against the Jews.
Click to expand...


The money we give to Egypt benefits Israel. The money we give to Jordan benefits Israel. The money we give to Lebanon benefits Israel. The money we give to the Palestinians benefit Israel.  That plus what we give Israel over and under the table could easily top $10B a year to Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> there is no question that the early zionists were trying to create  a country which would be a refuge for jews-----a refuge from both christian and muslim oppression.     There is no question that they envisioned a land populated by jews      If christian and muslim oppression had not existed-----there would probably still be an Israel----since the area had been considered  "holy"   to jews for more than 3000 years------and the religion does actually teach that it is far better to live there than anywhere else  ------the part that would not have happened would have been the  FIGHT  to get that land.   Jews would have been there continuously and no one else would have an interest in it.    The only reason muslims want it is because they feel a need to control the entire Middle east-----Islam is a very imperialistic ideology
> 
> 
> 
> *How many "strategic attacks" have Muslim governments launched *against civilian infrastructure on the opposite side of the globe from their homeland?
> 
> "Case in point. Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.
> 
> "Hard then to explain the 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people. An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled 'Strategic Attack,' chillingly explains: 'The electrical attacks proved extremely effective ... The loss of electricity shut down the capital's water treatment plants and led to a public health crisis from raw sewage dumped in the Tigris River.'
> 
> "A second US Defense Intelligence Agency document, 1991's 'Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities,' predicted how sanctions would then be used to prevent Iraq from getting the equipment and chemicals necessary for water purification, which would result in 'a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population' leading to 'increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.'"
> 
> *How many incidents "if not epidemics of disease...?*
> 
> Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq
Click to expand...




> "Case in point. Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.



Israel does the same thing all the time. It is always bulldozing crops, uprooting trees, destroying water sources. Not to mention destroying homes and places of business.

All the peace process flunkies wring their hands saying that they are concerned or troubled that this is not good for the peace process.

Screw that. Start putting people in jail. The peace process will take care of itself.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> And if the Iranians had turned Stuxnet loose on the CIA and Mossad, you would be whining about Persian terrorists.
> 
> "The counterintelligence worries continue even as the U.S. relationship with Israel features close cooperation on intelligence programs that reportedly included the Stuxnet computer virus that attacked computers in Iran's main nuclear enrichment facilities.
> 
> "While the alliance is central to the U.S. approach in the Middle East, there is room for intense disagreement, especially in the diplomatic turmoil over Iran's nuclear ambitions.
> 
> "'It's a complicated relationship,' said Joseph Wippl, a former senior CIA clandestine officer and head of the agency's office of congressional affairs. 'They have their interests. We have our interests. For the U.S., it's a balancing act.'"
> 
> It's especially complicated by the fact that Israel would not even exist without the US taxpayer.
> Politicians who champion Israeli interests over those of the US should face charges of treason.
> 
> News from The Associated Press
> 
> 
> 
> Quote from GeorgePhillip
> 
> It's especially complicated by the fact that Israel would not even exist without the US taxpayer.
> Politicians who champion Israeli interests over those of the US should face charges of treason.
> 
> 
> As a citizen, George you have the right to go to your nearest District Court and file treason charges against those champions. Do your duty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is true that real US support didn't start until after the '67 war but Israel has lived on the mooch since before it was called Israel.
Click to expand...

Islamic double-speak. I bet you're fork-tongued.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> there is no question that the early zionists were trying to create  a country which would be a refuge for jews-----a refuge from both christian and muslim oppression.     There is no question that they envisioned a land populated by jews      If christian and muslim oppression had not existed-----there would probably still be an Israel----since the area had been considered  "holy"   to jews for more than 3000 years------and the religion does actually teach that it is far better to live there than anywhere else  ------the part that would not have happened would have been the  FIGHT  to get that land.   Jews would have been there continuously and no one else would have an interest in it.    The only reason muslims want it is because they feel a need to control the entire Middle east-----Islam is a very imperialistic ideology
> 
> 
> 
> *How many "strategic attacks" have Muslim governments launched *against civilian infrastructure on the opposite side of the globe from their homeland?
> 
> "Case in point. Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.
> 
> "Hard then to explain the 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people. An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled 'Strategic Attack,' chillingly explains: 'The electrical attacks proved extremely effective ... The loss of electricity shut down the capital's water treatment plants and led to a public health crisis from raw sewage dumped in the Tigris River.'
> 
> "A second US Defense Intelligence Agency document, 1991's 'Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities,' predicted how sanctions would then be used to prevent Iraq from getting the equipment and chemicals necessary for water purification, which would result in 'a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population' leading to 'increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.'"
> 
> *How many incidents "if not epidemics of disease...?*
> 
> Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Case in point. Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel does the same thing all the time. It is always bulldozing crops, uprooting trees, destroying water sources. Not to mention destroying homes and places of business.
> 
> All the peace process flunkies wring their hands saying that they are concerned or troubled that this is not good for the peace process.
> 
> Screw that. Start putting people in jail. The peace process will take care of itself.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that would mean putting the whole Palestinian leadership and all their croonies in jail. Now that's a good start.  Bunch of thieves, terrorists, and thugs.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is true that real US support didn't start until after the '67 war but Israel has lived on the mooch since before it was called Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you suppose that is? Why would the US be giving money to Israel when we are having a recession? Incidently, that amount of money is a pittance compared to what all the other countries get from us. Why don't you bitch about those other countries? Yes, we know you never say anything bad against the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The money we give to Egypt benefits Israel. The money we give to Jordan benefits Israel. The money we give to Lebanon benefits Israel. The money we give to the Palestinians benefit Israel.  That plus what we give Israel over and under the table could easily top $10B a year to Israel.
Click to expand...

"Give us money otherwise we will turn into the savage animals that you know".  Same reason we give money to the Pakistani Osama loving dirtbags.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *How many "strategic attacks" have Muslim governments launched *against civilian infrastructure on the opposite side of the globe from their homeland?
> 
> "Case in point. Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.
> 
> "Hard then to explain the 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people. An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled 'Strategic Attack,' chillingly explains: 'The electrical attacks proved extremely effective ... The loss of electricity shut down the capital's water treatment plants and led to a public health crisis from raw sewage dumped in the Tigris River.'
> 
> "A second US Defense Intelligence Agency document, 1991's 'Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities,' predicted how sanctions would then be used to prevent Iraq from getting the equipment and chemicals necessary for water purification, which would result in 'a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population' leading to 'increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.'"
> 
> *How many incidents "if not epidemics of disease...?*
> 
> Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Case in point. Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel does the same thing all the time. It is always bulldozing crops, uprooting trees, destroying water sources. Not to mention destroying homes and places of business.
> 
> All the peace process flunkies wring their hands saying that they are concerned or troubled that this is not good for the peace process.
> 
> Screw that. Start putting people in jail. The peace process will take care of itself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, that would mean putting the whole Palestinian leadership and all their croonies in jail. Now that's a good start.  Bunch of thieves, terrorists, and thugs.
Click to expand...


Yep, the PA in the West Bank violates domestic and international law every day. This was mentioned in the Goldstone report. And there are many in Israel who should get busted.

If that happens, peace is sure to follow. The peace process will take care of itself.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does the same thing all the time. It is always bulldozing crops, uprooting trees, destroying water sources. Not to mention destroying homes and places of business.
> 
> All the peace process flunkies wring their hands saying that they are concerned or troubled that this is not good for the peace process.
> 
> Screw that. Start putting people in jail. The peace process will take care of itself.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that would mean putting the whole Palestinian leadership and all their croonies in jail. Now that's a good start.  Bunch of thieves, terrorists, and thugs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep, the PA in the West Bank violates domestic and international law every day. This was mentioned in the Goldstone report. And there are many in Israel who should get busted.
> 
> If that happens, peace is sure to follow. The peace process will take care of itself.
Click to expand...

I think first they go after those Hamas terrorists who shoot rockets and commit acts of mass murder on women and children, including suicide bombing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that would mean putting the whole Palestinian leadership and all their croonies in jail. Now that's a good start.  Bunch of thieves, terrorists, and thugs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, the PA in the West Bank violates domestic and international law every day. This was mentioned in the Goldstone report. And there are many in Israel who should get busted.
> 
> If that happens, peace is sure to follow. The peace process will take care of itself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think first they go after those Hamas terrorists who shoot rockets and commit acts of mass murder on women and children, including suicide bombing.
Click to expand...


Drop in the bucket. The vast majority of crimes do not involve Hamas.


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> *My hubby was a child in Jerusalem before  1948*----at one point being treated for a crippling illness with lots of other kids-------he said all the kids were afraid to go near the armenian church because the priests abused them ,     The crippled kids did not stand a chance     He did not even know what the religion of those priests was-----he described them to me-----long black robes--big hats and beards-----out of chruch ---he knew it was a church because of the big cross and the priests who seem to like to slaughter chickens on saturday and chase crippled kids       It seems to me that the relationship between jews and armenian priests in Jerusalem has not been good for a long time.   I am not advocating spitting-- but would make a case for  SEPARATION.      Some hatreds are simply INHERITED  as a family legacy----I believe that the  "ultra orthodox"   (who btw are generally naturei karta----ie the ones who do not recognize Israel as a state)    are more likely to carry their FAMILY HATRED LEGACY than other people    The are an isolated people.     I do not believe that the NATUREI KARTA   will last much longer-----lots of them leave that group.   They do have a high birth rate------but I still do not believe that as a group they will survive-----too backward



Which makes you about 100 years old?


----------



## irosie91

ima said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *My hubby was a child in Jerusalem before  1948*----at one point being treated for a crippling illness with lots of other kids-------he said all the kids were afraid to go near the armenian church because the priests abused them ,     The crippled kids did not stand a chance     He did not even know what the religion of those priests was-----he described them to me-----long black robes--big hats and beards-----out of chruch ---he knew it was a church because of the big cross and the priests who seem to like to slaughter chickens on saturday and chase crippled kids       It seems to me that the relationship between jews and armenian priests in Jerusalem has not been good for a long time.   I am not advocating spitting-- but would make a case for  SEPARATION.      Some hatreds are simply INHERITED  as a family legacy----I believe that the  "ultra orthodox"   (who btw are generally naturei karta----ie the ones who do not recognize Israel as a state)    are more likely to carry their FAMILY HATRED LEGACY than other people    The are an isolated people.     I do not believe that the NATUREI KARTA   will last much longer-----lots of them leave that group.   They do have a high birth rate------but I still do not believe that as a group they will survive-----too backward
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which makes you about 100 years old?
Click to expand...



Use both your fingers AND toes-----and maybe you will learn how to do arithmetic----practice


----------



## georgephillip

irosie91 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I'll provide you a hundered links showing the CIA and Mossad's close cooperation on many levels.  Pffffft!!
> 
> Alexander Gostev, an expert at Kaspersky Labs, said in an email that the Russian cyber security software company discovered a similarity between a subset of the code used in Flame and code used in the Stuxnet virus.
> 
> Stuxnet was developed collaboratively between Israel and the United States for the explicit purpose of disabling computer networks in Iran, although Israeli intelligence denies this, according to Mossad agents who say they created the malware and Obama is taking credit for unleashing it against Irans fledgling nuclear program as propaganda in his re-election bid.*According to author David E. Sanger, Obama decided to accelerate cyberattack
> initiated during the Bush administration. Sanger says the projects codename was Olympic Games and it began in 2006.
> 
> Israel and the United States  the CIA and Mossad  represent the vanguard of the emerging cyber security threat.
> 
> Pakistan Cyber Force: CIA - Mossad produced Flame and Stuxnet Related: Computer Experts[/QUOT
> And if the Iranians had turned Stuxnet loose on the CIA and Mossad, you would be whining about Persian terrorists.
> 
> "The counterintelligence worries continue even as the U.S. relationship with Israel features close cooperation on intelligence programs that reportedly included the Stuxnet computer virus that attacked computers in Iran's main nuclear enrichment facilities.
> 
> 
> "While the alliance is central to the U.S. approach in the Middle East, there is room for intense disagreement, especially in the diplomatic turmoil over Iran's nuclear ambitions.
> 
> "'It's a complicated relationship,' said Joseph Wippl, a former senior CIA clandestine officer and head of the agency's office of congressional affairs. 'They have their interests. We have our interests. For the U.S., it's a balancing act.'"
> 
> It's especially complicated by the fact that Israel would not even exist without the US taxpayer.
> Politicians who champion Israeli interests over those of the US should face charges of treason.
> 
> News from The Associated Press
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the record    Israel existed long before it was getting AIDE from the USA  which actually started sometime around  1970       US citizens are legally allowed to champion just about ay cause----now that  Mc Carthy is dead
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *When did Israel acquire the right to transfer US military technology to China?*
> 
> "Sometimes, when the technology is military in nature and winds up in the hands of a US adversary, the consequences can be serious. *Israel has sold advanced weapons systems to China* that incorporated technology developed by American companiesincluding the Python-3 air-to-air missile and the Delilah cruise missile.
> 
> "There is evidence that Tel Aviv has also stolen Patriot missile avionics to incorporate into its own Arrow system and that it used US technology obtained in its Lavi fighter development programwhich was funded by the *US taxpayer to the tune of $1.5 billion*to help the Bejing government develop their own J-10 fighter."
> 
> Phil Giraldi Spills Beans on Israeli Espionage in America | Veterans Today
> 
> *Israel says "thanks, Uncle Sucker."*
Click to expand...


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *My hubby was a child in Jerusalem before  1948*----at one point being treated for a crippling illness with lots of other kids-------he said all the kids were afraid to go near the armenian church because the priests abused them ,     The crippled kids did not stand a chance     He did not even know what the religion of those priests was-----he described them to me-----long black robes--big hats and beards-----out of chruch ---he knew it was a church because of the big cross and the priests who seem to like to slaughter chickens on saturday and chase crippled kids       It seems to me that the relationship between jews and armenian priests in Jerusalem has not been good for a long time.   I am not advocating spitting-- but would make a case for  SEPARATION.      Some hatreds are simply INHERITED  as a family legacy----I believe that the  "ultra orthodox"   (who btw are generally naturei karta----ie the ones who do not recognize Israel as a state)    are more likely to carry their FAMILY HATRED LEGACY than other people    The are an isolated people.     I do not believe that the NATUREI KARTA   will last much longer-----lots of them leave that group.   They do have a high birth rate------but I still do not believe that as a group they will survive-----too backward
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which makes you about 100 years old?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Use both your fingers AND toes-----and maybe you will learn how to do arithmetic----practice
Click to expand...


I'll need all my family's toes and fingers, maybe one or two of our cats as well.


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is true that real US support didn't start until after the '67 war but Israel has lived on the mooch since before it was called Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you suppose that is? Why would the US be giving money to Israel when we are having a recession? Incidently, that amount of money is a pittance compared to what all the other countries get from us. Why don't you bitch about those other countries? Yes, we know you never say anything bad against the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The money we give to Egypt benefits Israel. The money we give to Jordan benefits Israel. The money we give to Lebanon benefits Israel. The money we give to the Palestinians benefit Israel.  That plus what we give Israel over and under the table could easily top $10B a year to Israel.
Click to expand...



All US expenditures are made to  BENEFIT THE JEWS   -----ask any disgusting little old crone swilling beer and turning tricks


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you suppose that is? Why would the US be giving money to Israel when we are having a recession? Incidently, that amount of money is a pittance compared to what all the other countries get from us. Why don't you bitch about those other countries? Yes, we know you never say anything bad against the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The money we give to Egypt benefits Israel. The money we give to Jordan benefits Israel. The money we give to Lebanon benefits Israel. The money we give to the Palestinians benefit Israel.  That plus what we give Israel over and under the table could easily top $10B a year to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> All US expenditures are made to  BENEFIT THE JEWS   -----ask any disgusting little old crone swilling beer and turning tricks
Click to expand...


No. That's just your opinion.


----------



## psed007

Hi there,
I've also joined this forum to have more opinions to think about. Sorry for my English, I'am just an Austrian guy 

I have tried to get into different point of views, but at the end it comes down to this: palestine is occupied by israel. hmmm... 
My point of view is the following:
When I realized this problem and heard more and more people talking about this topic, I have started to read different books, articles, forums etc...
I heard the jews occupy a territory which not belongs to them. This was the first reason I entered this theme. I started to read the Torah, (5 book of moses) as a base literature. A lot of people told me this is only a fairy tale book and I should not take the stories inside as valid information ?!?!?!? Ok.... I just went on with reading. My impression was that the geographical  facts are true because you can visit the places mentioned 3500 Years ago. Here came my first question? Why palestina is not mentioned there. And why the holly land is promised to the jews. I continued reading with ordinary history books. I have discovered that the name palestina were given by the romans and the land was called judea before. Furthermore I have discovered that the palestine name is coming from Philistines. They were an  Indo-European people. What I have to say ?!?!? Palestine never existed as a state, they never had an own government, own money, own something. So I could not find out who are the real palestine people beside that the cultural roots is to be found in the land of jordan. Maybe someone has the answer: Why people just keep on ignoring history and why we just let them ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

psed007 said:


> Hi there,
> I've also joined this forum to have more opinions to think about. Sorry for my English, I'am just an Austrian guy
> 
> I have tried to get into different point of views, but at the end it comes down to this: palestine is occupied by israel. hmmm...
> My point of view is the following:
> When I realized this problem and heard more and more people talking about this topic, I have started to read different books, articles, forums etc...
> I heard the jews occupy a territory which not belongs to them. This was the first reason I entered this theme. I started to read the Torah, (5 book of moses) as a base literature. A lot of people told me this is only a fairy tale book and I should not take the stories inside as valid information ?!?!?!? Ok.... I just went on with reading. My impression was that the geographical  facts are true because you can visit the places mentioned 3500 Years ago. Here came my first question? Why palestina is not mentioned there. And why the holly land is promised to the jews. I continued reading with ordinary history books. I have discovered that the name palestina were given by the romans and the land was called judea before. Furthermore I have discovered that the palestine name is coming from Philistines. They were an  Indo-European people. What I have to say ?!?!? Palestine never existed as a state, they never had an own government, own money, own something. So I could not find out who are the real palestine people beside that the cultural roots is to be found in the land of jordan. Maybe someone has the answer: Why people just keep on ignoring history and why we just let them ?



Welcome to the board and keep reading.

BTW, expand your sources.


----------



## Roudy

ima said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which makes you about 100 years old?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Use both your fingers AND toes-----and maybe you will learn how to do arithmetic----practice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll need all my family's toes and fingers, maybe one or two of our cats as well.
Click to expand...

First remove your head from your ass. Was third grade the three hardest years of your education?


----------



## Roudy

psed007 said:


> Hi there,
> I've also joined this forum to have more opinions to think about. Sorry for my English, I'am just an Austrian guy
> 
> I have tried to get into different point of views, but at the end it comes down to this: palestine is occupied by israel. hmmm...
> My point of view is the following:
> When I realized this problem and heard more and more people talking about this topic, I have started to read different books, articles, forums etc...
> I heard the jews occupy a territory which not belongs to them. This was the first reason I entered this theme. I started to read the Torah, (5 book of moses) as a base literature. A lot of people told me this is only a fairy tale book and I should not take the stories inside as valid information ?!?!?!? Ok.... I just went on with reading. My impression was that the geographical  facts are true because you can visit the places mentioned 3500 Years ago. Here came my first question? Why palestina is not mentioned there. And why the holly land is promised to the jews. I continued reading with ordinary history books. I have discovered that the name palestina were given by the romans and the land was called judea before. Furthermore I have discovered that the palestine name is coming from Philistines. They were an  Indo-European people. What I have to say ?!?!? Palestine never existed as a state, they never had an own government, own money, own something. So I could not find out who are the real palestine people beside that the cultural roots is to be found in the land of jordan. Maybe someone has the answer: Why people just keep on ignoring history and why we just let them ?


Your research is true and correct.  Any objective person would reach the same conclusion you did.  The term Palestinian was the name given to the Jews of that area, only. Arabs never considered themselves Palestiians in fact were insulted by that name, because it meant someone was calling them a Jew. It was in the mid 1960's when Arafat decided to hijack that name and call the invading Arabs by that name. 

http://www.imninalu.net/myths-pals.htm

Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage


----------



## sealadaigh

psed007 said:


> Hi there,
> I've also joined this forum to have more opinions to think about. Sorry for my English, I'am just an Austrian guy
> 
> I have tried to get into different point of views, but at the end it comes down to this: palestine is occupied by israel. hmmm...
> My point of view is the following:
> When I realized this problem and heard more and more people talking about this topic, I have started to read different books, articles, forums etc...
> I heard the jews occupy a territory which not belongs to them. This was the first reason I entered this theme. I started to read the Torah, (5 book of moses) as a base literature. A lot of people told me this is only a fairy tale book and I should not take the stories inside as valid information ?!?!?!? Ok.... I just went on with reading. My impression was that the geographical  facts are true because you can visit the places mentioned 3500 Years ago. Here came my first question? Why palestina is not mentioned there. And why the holly land is promised to the jews. I continued reading with ordinary history books. I have discovered that the name palestina were given by the romans and the land was called judea before. Furthermore I have discovered that the palestine name is coming from Philistines. They were an  Indo-European people. What I have to say ?!?!? Palestine never existed as a state, they never had an own government, own money, own something. So I could not find out who are the real palestine people beside that the cultural roots is to be found in the land of jordan. Maybe someone has the answer: Why people just keep on ignoring history and why we just let them ?



dude, you really are going to have to fake your broken english better than that.


----------



## sealadaigh

psed007 said:


> Hi there,
> I've also joined this forum to have more opinions to think about. Sorry for my English, I'am just an Austrian guy
> 
> I have tried to get into different point of views, but at the end it comes down to this: palestine is occupied by israel. hmmm...
> My point of view is the following:
> When I realized this problem and heard more and more people talking about this topic, I have started to read different books, articles, forums etc...
> I heard the jews occupy a territory which not belongs to them. This was the first reason I entered this theme. I started to read the Torah, (5 book of moses) as a base literature. A lot of people told me this is only a fairy tale book and I should not take the stories inside as valid information ?!?!?!? Ok.... I just went on with reading. My impression was that the geographical  facts are true because you can visit the places mentioned 3500 Years ago. Here came my first question? Why palestina is not mentioned there. And why the holly land is promised to the jews. I continued reading with ordinary history books. I have discovered that the name palestina were given by the romans and the land was called judea before. Furthermore I have discovered that the palestine name is coming from Philistines. They were an  Indo-European people. What I have to say ?!?!? Palestine never existed as a state, they never had an own government, own money, own something. So I could not find out who are the real palestine people beside that the cultural roots is to be found in the land of jordan. Maybe someone has the answer: Why people just keep on ignoring history and why we just let them ?



lolol...i am still cracking up. 

me new here too. me no speaky well because i from somewhere to but i spell very good?!?!?!? sorry i no punctuate good but my syntax is perfecct sometimes. somehow i end up on this thread fro out of nowhere.

thank you very much. my name jose jimenez. i am from austria. hmmmmm...lookee, lookee, balls on hookee.

crack me up dude. at least ya fooled hoss, but he is a nice guy and trusts people.


----------



## drtywhtboy

Report: US presents Israel with Iran strike plan | CNSNews.com


----------



## georgephillip

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I'll provide you a hundered links showing the CIA and Mossad's close cooperation on many levels.  Pffffft!!
> 
> Alexander Gostev, an expert at Kaspersky Labs, said in an email that the Russian cyber security software company discovered a similarity between a subset of the code used in Flame and code used in the Stuxnet virus.
> 
> Stuxnet was developed collaboratively between Israel and the United States for the explicit purpose of disabling computer networks in Iran, although Israeli intelligence denies this, according to Mossad agents who say they created the malware and Obama is taking credit for unleashing it against Iran&#8217;s fledgling nuclear program as propaganda in his re-election bid.*According to author David E. Sanger, Obama decided to accelerate cyberattacks initiated during the Bush administration. Sanger says the project&#8217;s codename was Olympic Games and it began in 2006.
> 
> Israel and the United States &#8211; the CIA and Mossad &#8211; represent the vanguard of the emerging cyber security threat.
> 
> Pakistan Cyber Force: CIA - Mossad produced Flame and Stuxnet Related: Computer Experts
> 
> 
> 
> And if the Iranians had turned Stuxnet loose on the CIA and Mossad, you would be whining about Persian terrorists.
> 
> "The counterintelligence worries continue even as the U.S. relationship with Israel features close cooperation on intelligence programs that reportedly included the Stuxnet computer virus that attacked computers in Iran's main nuclear enrichment facilities.
> 
> "While the alliance is central to the U.S. approach in the Middle East, there is room for intense disagreement, especially in the diplomatic turmoil over Iran's nuclear ambitions.
> 
> "'It's a complicated relationship,' said Joseph Wippl, a former senior CIA clandestine officer and head of the agency's office of congressional affairs. 'They have their interests. We have our interests. For the U.S., it's a balancing act.'"
> 
> It's especially complicated by the fact that Israel would not even exist without the US taxpayer.
> Politicians who champion Israeli interests over those of the US should face charges of treason.
> 
> News from The Associated Press
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's your point, donkey?
Click to expand...

*Here's the point, Serpent...Israel is NOT that special.*

"More recently, FBI counter intelligence officer John Cole has reported how many cases of Israeli espionage are dropped under orders from the Justice Department. He provides a '*conservative estimate*' of 125 worthwhile investigations into Israeli espionage involving both American citizens and Israelis that were stopped due to political pressure from above.

"Two stories that have been reported in the Israeli media but are strangely absent from the news on this side of the Atlantic demonstrate exactly what is going on and what is at stake. 

"*The first report confirms Tel Avivs efforts to obtain US technology are ongoing.*

Phil Giraldi Spills Beans on Israeli Espionage in America | Veterans Today

*What do you know about snakes in the Promised Land?*


----------



## georgephillip

P F Tinmore said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> there is no question that the early zionists were trying to create  a country which would be a refuge for jews-----a refuge from both christian and muslim oppression.     There is no question that they envisioned a land populated by jews      If christian and muslim oppression had not existed-----there would probably still be an Israel----since the area had been considered  "holy"   to jews for more than 3000 years------and the religion does actually teach that it is far better to live there than anywhere else  ------the part that would not have happened would have been the  FIGHT  to get that land.   Jews would have been there continuously and no one else would have an interest in it.    The only reason muslims want it is because they feel a need to control the entire Middle east-----Islam is a very imperialistic ideology
> 
> 
> 
> *How many "strategic attacks" have Muslim governments launched *against civilian infrastructure on the opposite side of the globe from their homeland?
> 
> "Case in point. Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.
> 
> "Hard then to explain the 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people. An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled 'Strategic Attack,' chillingly explains: 'The electrical attacks proved extremely effective ... The loss of electricity shut down the capital's water treatment plants and led to a public health crisis from raw sewage dumped in the Tigris River.'
> 
> "A second US Defense Intelligence Agency document, 1991's 'Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities,' predicted how sanctions would then be used to prevent Iraq from getting the equipment and chemicals necessary for water purification, which would result in 'a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population' leading to 'increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.'"
> 
> *How many incidents "if not epidemics of disease...?*
> 
> Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Case in point. Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel does the same thing all the time. It is always bulldozing crops, uprooting trees, destroying water sources. Not to mention destroying homes and places of business.
> 
> All the peace process flunkies wring their hands saying that they are concerned or troubled that this is not good for the peace process.
> 
> Screw that. Start putting people in jail. The peace process will take care of itself.
Click to expand...

In theory, the most direct method of ending Israeli apartheid mirrors that of their former trading partner, White South Africa:

"The international banking sanctions campaign in New York against apartheid South Africa during the 1980s is regarded as the most effective strategy in bringing about a nonviolent end to the countrys apartheid system..."

"If international civil society is serious about urgently ending Israels violations of Palestinian rights, including *ending the occupation*, then suspension of SWIFT transactions to and from Israeli banks offers an instrument to help bring about a peaceful resolution of an intractable conflict..."

"*SWIFT links 8,740 financial institutions in 209 countries*. Without access to SWIFT and its interbank payment network, countries are unable either to pay for imports or to receive payment for exports. *In short, no payment  no trade*." 

Terry Crawford-Browne: To end the occupation, cripple Israeli banks | Israeli Occupation Archive


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *How many "strategic attacks" have Muslim governments launched *against civilian infrastructure on the opposite side of the globe from their homeland?
> 
> "Case in point. Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.
> 
> "Hard then to explain the 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people. An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled 'Strategic Attack,' chillingly explains: 'The electrical attacks proved extremely effective ... The loss of electricity shut down the capital's water treatment plants and led to a public health crisis from raw sewage dumped in the Tigris River.'
> 
> "A second US Defense Intelligence Agency document, 1991's 'Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities,' predicted how sanctions would then be used to prevent Iraq from getting the equipment and chemicals necessary for water purification, which would result in 'a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population' leading to 'increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.'"
> 
> *How many incidents "if not epidemics of disease...?*
> 
> Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Case in point. Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel does the same thing all the time. It is always bulldozing crops, uprooting trees, destroying water sources. Not to mention destroying homes and places of business.
> 
> All the peace process flunkies wring their hands saying that they are concerned or troubled that this is not good for the peace process.
> 
> Screw that. Start putting people in jail. The peace process will take care of itself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In theory, the most direct method of ending Israeli apartheid mirrors that of their former trading partner, White South Africa:
> 
> "The international banking sanctions campaign in New York against apartheid South Africa during the 1980s is regarded as the most effective strategy in bringing about a nonviolent end to the countrys apartheid system..."
> 
> "If international civil society is serious about urgently ending Israels violations of Palestinian rights, including *ending the occupation*, then suspension of SWIFT transactions to and from Israeli banks offers an instrument to help bring about a peaceful resolution of an intractable conflict..."
> 
> "*SWIFT links 8,740 financial institutions in 209 countries*. Without access to SWIFT and its interbank payment network, countries are unable either to pay for imports or to receive payment for exports. *In short, no payment  no trade*."
> 
> Terry Crawford-Browne: To end the occupation, cripple Israeli banks | Israeli Occupation Archive
Click to expand...


Who?


----------



## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is true that real US support didn't start until after the '67 war but Israel has lived on the mooch since before it was called Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you suppose that is? Why would the US be giving money to Israel when we are having a recession? Incidently, that amount of money is a pittance compared to what all the other countries get from us. Why don't you bitch about those other countries? Yes, we know you never say anything bad against the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The money we give to Egypt benefits Israel. The money we give to Jordan benefits Israel. The money we give to Lebanon benefits Israel. The money we give to the Palestinians benefit Israel.  That plus what we give Israel over and under the table could easily top $10B a year to Israel.
Click to expand...


You keep claiming that our aid to all Mideast Arab countries benefits Israel. Could you elaborate?


----------



## georgephillip

psed007 said:


> Hi there,
> I've also joined this forum to have more opinions to think about. Sorry for my English, I'am just an Austrian guy
> 
> I have tried to get into different point of views, but at the end it comes down to this: palestine is occupied by israel. hmmm...
> My point of view is the following:
> When I realized this problem and heard more and more people talking about this topic, I have started to read different books, articles, forums etc...
> I heard the jews occupy a territory which not belongs to them. This was the first reason I entered this theme. I started to read the Torah, (5 book of moses) as a base literature. A lot of people told me this is only a fairy tale book and I should not take the stories inside as valid information ?!?!?!? Ok.... I just went on with reading. My impression was that the geographical  facts are true because you can visit the places mentioned 3500 Years ago. Here came my first question? Why palestina is not mentioned there. And why the holly land is promised to the jews. I continued reading with ordinary history books. I have discovered that the name palestina were given by the romans and the land was called judea before. Furthermore I have discovered that the palestine name is coming from Philistines. They were an  Indo-European people. What I have to say ?!?!? Palestine never existed as a state, they never had an own government, own money, own something. So I could not find out who are the real palestine people beside that the cultural roots is to be found in the land of jordan. Maybe someone has the answer: Why people just keep on ignoring history and why we just let them ?


Consider some recent history of Palestine along with what you've already read.
In 1948 one-third of all citizens of Mandate Palestine imposed a Jewish state by force of arms on their neighbors.
This was one result:

"The 1948 Palestinian exodus, known in Arabic as the Nakba (Arabic: &#1575;&#1604;&#1606;&#1603;&#1576;&#1577;*, an-Nakbah, lit. 'disaster', 'catastrophe', or 'cataclysm'),[1] occurred when approximately 711,000 to 725,000 Palestinian Arabs left, fled or were expelled from their homes, during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War and the 1947&#8211;1948 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine that preceded it."

I'm still trying to understand why Jews alone, among all people, are entitled to lands their ancestors conquered thousands of years ago?

Welcome to the asylum where inmates RULE!

1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does the same thing all the time. It is always bulldozing crops, uprooting trees, destroying water sources. Not to mention destroying homes and places of business.
> 
> All the peace process flunkies wring their hands saying that they are concerned or troubled that this is not good for the peace process.
> 
> Screw that. Start putting people in jail. The peace process will take care of itself.
> 
> 
> 
> In theory, the most direct method of ending Israeli apartheid mirrors that of their former trading partner, White South Africa:
> 
> "The international banking sanctions campaign in New York against apartheid South Africa during the 1980s is regarded as the most effective strategy in bringing about a nonviolent end to the countrys apartheid system..."
> 
> "If international civil society is serious about urgently ending Israels violations of Palestinian rights, including *ending the occupation*, then suspension of SWIFT transactions to and from Israeli banks offers an instrument to help bring about a peaceful resolution of an intractable conflict..."
> 
> "*SWIFT links 8,740 financial institutions in 209 countries*. Without access to SWIFT and its interbank payment network, countries are unable either to pay for imports or to receive payment for exports. *In short, no payment  no trade*."
> 
> Terry Crawford-Browne: To end the occupation, cripple Israeli banks | Israeli Occupation Archive
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who?
Click to expand...

*Not "who" but "what."*

"Although access to New York banks remains essential for foreign exchange transactions because of the role of the dollar, interbank transfer instructions are conducted through the *Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT)*, which is based in Belgium. So, instead of New York &#8212; as in the period when sanctions were applied on South Africa&#8211; Belgium is now the pressure point."

Still confused?
Call Mitt.

Terry Crawford-Browne: To end the occupation, cripple Israeli banks | Israeli Occupation Archive


----------



## georgephillip

drtywhtboy said:


> Report: US presents Israel with Iran strike plan | CNSNews.com


"Israeli leaders have repeatedly said they would not contract out their country's security to another nation.(???????)

"In Jerusalem on Sunday, *a top Romney foreign policy adviser* told reporters, 'If Israel has to take action on its own, in order to stop Iran from developing the capability (to build a nuclear weapon), the governor would respect that decision.' 

"Romney also thinks the option of a U.S. attack should also be on the table."

What would have to happen in the next six months to make this scenario likely?
Romney would have to win the White House.
Israel would launch Operation Iranian Cast Lead" in December?
What effects would such an operation have on the global economy?
Interesting Times...

Report: US presents Israel with Iran strike plan | CNSNews.com


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> In theory, the most direct method of ending Israeli apartheid mirrors that of their former trading partner, White South Africa:
> 
> "The international banking sanctions campaign in New York against apartheid South Africa during the 1980s is regarded as the most effective strategy in bringing about a nonviolent end to the countrys apartheid system..."
> 
> "If international civil society is serious about urgently ending Israels violations of Palestinian rights, including *ending the occupation*, then suspension of SWIFT transactions to and from Israeli banks offers an instrument to help bring about a peaceful resolution of an intractable conflict..."
> 
> "*SWIFT links 8,740 financial institutions in 209 countries*. Without access to SWIFT and its interbank payment network, countries are unable either to pay for imports or to receive payment for exports. *In short, no payment  no trade*."
> 
> Terry Crawford-Browne: To end the occupation, cripple Israeli banks | Israeli Occupation Archive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Not "who" but "what."*
> 
> "Although access to New York banks remains essential for foreign exchange transactions because of the role of the dollar, interbank transfer instructions are conducted through the *Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT)*, which is based in Belgium. So, instead of New York &#8212; as in the period when sanctions were applied on South Africa&#8211; Belgium is now the pressure point."
> 
> Still confused?
> Call Mitt.
> 
> Terry Crawford-Browne: To end the occupation, cripple Israeli banks | Israeli Occupation Archive
Click to expand...

How much of your daily 24 hours do you dedicate to masturbating for the destruction of Israel, oh curious George the Muslim monkey?


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> psed007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi there,
> I've also joined this forum to have more opinions to think about. Sorry for my English, I'am just an Austrian guy
> 
> I have tried to get into different point of views, but at the end it comes down to this: palestine is occupied by israel. hmmm...
> My point of view is the following:
> When I realized this problem and heard more and more people talking about this topic, I have started to read different books, articles, forums etc...
> I heard the jews occupy a territory which not belongs to them. This was the first reason I entered this theme. I started to read the Torah, (5 book of moses) as a base literature. A lot of people told me this is only a fairy tale book and I should not take the stories inside as valid information ?!?!?!? Ok.... I just went on with reading. My impression was that the geographical  facts are true because you can visit the places mentioned 3500 Years ago. Here came my first question? Why palestina is not mentioned there. And why the holly land is promised to the jews. I continued reading with ordinary history books. I have discovered that the name palestina were given by the romans and the land was called judea before. Furthermore I have discovered that the palestine name is coming from Philistines. They were an  Indo-European people. What I have to say ?!?!? Palestine never existed as a state, they never had an own government, own money, own something. So I could not find out who are the real palestine people beside that the cultural roots is to be found in the land of jordan. Maybe someone has the answer: Why people just keep on ignoring history and why we just let them ?
> 
> 
> 
> Consider some recent history of Palestine along with what you've already read.
> In 1948 one-third of all citizens of Mandate Palestine imposed a Jewish state by force of arms on their neighbors.
> This was one result:
> 
> "The 1948 Palestinian exodus, known in Arabic as the Nakba (Arabic: &#1575;&#1604;&#1606;&#1603;&#1576;&#1577;*, an-Nakbah, lit. 'disaster', 'catastrophe', or 'cataclysm'),[1] occurred when approximately 711,000 to 725,000 Palestinian Arabs left, fled or were expelled from their homes, during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War and the 1947&#8211;1948 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine that preceded it."
> 
> I'm still trying to understand why Jews alone, among all people, are entitled to lands their ancestors conquered thousands of years ago?
> 
> Welcome to the asylum where inmates RULE!
> 
> 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

Yeah?  Ya think Arabs shouldn't have attacked Israel?  There was no such thing as Palestinians. Check it out. Palestine is the biggest fraud perpetrated on mankind. After Islam that is.


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> And if the Iranians had turned Stuxnet loose on the CIA and Mossad, you would be whining about Persian terrorists.
> 
> "The counterintelligence worries continue even as the U.S. relationship with Israel features close cooperation on intelligence programs that reportedly included the Stuxnet computer virus that attacked computers in Iran's main nuclear enrichment facilities.
> 
> "While the alliance is central to the U.S. approach in the Middle East, there is room for intense disagreement, especially in the diplomatic turmoil over Iran's nuclear ambitions.
> 
> "'It's a complicated relationship,' said Joseph Wippl, a former senior CIA clandestine officer and head of the agency's office of congressional affairs. 'They have their interests. We have our interests. For the U.S., it's a balancing act.'"
> 
> It's especially complicated by the fact that Israel would not even exist without the US taxpayer.
> Politicians who champion Israeli interests over those of the US should face charges of treason.
> 
> News from The Associated Press
> 
> 
> 
> What's your point, donkey?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Here's the point, Serpent...Israel is NOT that special.*
> 
> "More recently, FBI counter intelligence officer John Cole has reported how many cases of Israeli espionage are dropped under orders from the Justice Department. He provides a '*conservative estimate*' of 125 worthwhile investigations into Israeli espionage involving both American citizens and Israelis that were stopped due to political pressure from above.
> 
> "Two stories that have been reported in the Israeli media but are strangely absent from the news on this side of the Atlantic demonstrate exactly what is going on and what is at stake.
> 
> "*The first report confirms Tel Aviv&#8217;s efforts to obtain US technology are ongoing.*
> 
> Phil Giraldi Spills Beans on Israeli Espionage in America | Veterans Today
> 
> *What do you know about snakes in the Promised Land?*
Click to expand...

One of these days you're gonaa get buried in your own IslamoNazi shit propoganda, and the world will be a much better place after that.


----------



## georgephillip

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's your point, donkey?
> 
> 
> 
> *Here's the point, Serpent...Israel is NOT that special.*
> 
> "More recently, FBI counter intelligence officer John Cole has reported how many cases of Israeli espionage are dropped under orders from the Justice Department. He provides a '*conservative estimate*' of 125 worthwhile investigations into Israeli espionage involving both American citizens and Israelis that were stopped due to political pressure from above.
> 
> "Two stories that have been reported in the Israeli media but are strangely absent from the news on this side of the Atlantic demonstrate exactly what is going on and what is at stake.
> 
> "*The first report confirms Tel Aviv&#8217;s efforts to obtain US technology are ongoing.*
> 
> Phil Giraldi Spills Beans on Israeli Espionage in America | Veterans Today
> 
> *What do you know about snakes in the Promised Land?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One of these days you're gonaa get buried in your own IslamoNazi shit propoganda, and the world will be a much better place after that.
Click to expand...

Are you claiming to be a US citizen?
If so, why are you denying the existence of alleged espionage committed by US citizens on behalf of Israel?

"Stewart David Nozette, a US government scientist who was arrested in an October 2009 FBI sting operation after offering to spy for Israel, has been waiting in jail to go to trial on espionage charges.
New documents in the case were presented in the Federal court in Washington last year. The documents confirm that Nozette was a paid consultant for Israeli Aerospace Industries and it is believed that he passed to them classified material in return for an estimated $225,000 in 'consulting' fees.

Do you personally accept any "consulting fees" from Israeli interests?

Phil Giraldi Spills Beans on Israeli Espionage in America | Veterans Today


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> psed007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi there,
> I've also joined this forum to have more opinions to think about. Sorry for my English, I'am just an Austrian guy
> 
> I have tried to get into different point of views, but at the end it comes down to this: palestine is occupied by israel. hmmm...
> My point of view is the following:
> When I realized this problem and heard more and more people talking about this topic, I have started to read different books, articles, forums etc...
> I heard the jews occupy a territory which not belongs to them. This was the first reason I entered this theme. I started to read the Torah, (5 book of moses) as a base literature. A lot of people told me this is only a fairy tale book and I should not take the stories inside as valid information ?!?!?!? Ok.... I just went on with reading. My impression was that the geographical  facts are true because you can visit the places mentioned 3500 Years ago. Here came my first question? Why palestina is not mentioned there. And why the holly land is promised to the jews. I continued reading with ordinary history books. I have discovered that the name palestina were given by the romans and the land was called judea before. Furthermore I have discovered that the palestine name is coming from Philistines. They were an  Indo-European people. What I have to say ?!?!? Palestine never existed as a state, they never had an own government, own money, own something. So I could not find out who are the real palestine people beside that the cultural roots is to be found in the land of jordan. Maybe someone has the answer: Why people just keep on ignoring history and why we just let them ?
> 
> 
> 
> Consider some recent history of Palestine along with what you've already read.
> In 1948 one-third of all citizens of Mandate Palestine imposed a Jewish state by force of arms on their neighbors.
> This was one result:
> 
> "The 1948 Palestinian exodus, known in Arabic as the Nakba (Arabic: &#1575;&#1604;&#1606;&#1603;&#1576;&#1577;*, an-Nakbah, lit. 'disaster', 'catastrophe', or 'cataclysm'),[1] occurred when approximately 711,000 to 725,000 Palestinian Arabs left, fled or were expelled from their homes, during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War and the 19471948 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine that preceded it."
> 
> I'm still trying to understand why Jews alone, among all people, are entitled to lands their ancestors conquered thousands of years ago?
> 
> Welcome to the asylum where inmates RULE!
> 
> 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah?  Ya think Arabs shouldn't have attacked Israel?  There was no such thing as Palestinians. Check it out. Palestine is the biggest fraud perpetrated on mankind. After Islam that is.
Click to expand...


4. The establishment of an armistice between the armed forces of the two Parties is accepted as an indispensable step toward the liquidation of armed conflict and the restoration of peace *in Palestine.* 

2. This withdrawal shall begin on the day after that which follows the signing of this Agreement, at 0500 hours GMT, and shall be beyond the* Egypt-Palestine frontier.*

2. The area thus demilitarized shall be as follows: From a point on the *Egypt-Palestine frontier* five (5) kilometres north-west... thence returning north-west along the *Egypt-Palestine frontier* to the point of origin. 

4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of* entering Palestine. *

The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949


----------



## Billo_Really

georgephillip said:


> Are you claiming to be a US citizen?


What kind of question is that to ask?

He can't even claim to be a mature adult!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Consider some recent history of Palestine along with what you've already read.
> In 1948 one-third of all citizens of Mandate Palestine imposed a Jewish state by force of arms on their neighbors.
> This was one result:
> 
> "The 1948 Palestinian exodus, known in Arabic as the Nakba (Arabic: &#1575;&#1604;&#1606;&#1603;&#1576;&#1577;*, an-Nakbah, lit. 'disaster', 'catastrophe', or 'cataclysm'),[1] occurred when approximately 711,000 to 725,000 Palestinian Arabs left, fled or were expelled from their homes, during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War and the 19471948 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine that preceded it."
> 
> I'm still trying to understand why Jews alone, among all people, are entitled to lands their ancestors conquered thousands of years ago?
> 
> Welcome to the asylum where inmates RULE!
> 
> 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah?  Ya think Arabs shouldn't have attacked Israel?  There was no such thing as Palestinians. Check it out. Palestine is the biggest fraud perpetrated on mankind. After Islam that is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 4. The establishment of an armistice between the armed forces of the two Parties is accepted as an indispensable step toward the liquidation of armed conflict and the restoration of peace *in Palestine.*
> 
> 2. This withdrawal shall begin on the day after that which follows the signing of this Agreement, at 0500 hours GMT, and shall be beyond the* Egypt-Palestine frontier.*
> 
> 2. The area thus demilitarized shall be as follows: From a point on the *Egypt-Palestine frontier* five (5) kilometres north-west... thence returning north-west along the *Egypt-Palestine frontier* to the point of origin.
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of* entering Palestine. *
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
Click to expand...


Now, tinny. I'm guessing that you are not understanding that "Palestine" is a clear reference to Israel and why that is the case.

See if you can think this through. I'll check back later and if you can't work through it, I'lll help you out.


----------



## georgephillip

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who?
> 
> 
> 
> *Not "who" but "what."*
> 
> "Although access to New York banks remains essential for foreign exchange transactions because of the role of the dollar, interbank transfer instructions are conducted through the *Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT)*, which is based in Belgium. So, instead of New York &#8212; as in the period when sanctions were applied on South Africa&#8211; Belgium is now the pressure point."
> 
> Still confused?
> Call Mitt.
> 
> Terry Crawford-Browne: To end the occupation, cripple Israeli banks | Israeli Occupation Archive
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much of your daily 24 hours do you dedicate to masturbating for the destruction of Israel, oh curious George the Muslim monkey?
Click to expand...

Define "Israel", Snake-face.
Specifically its eastern border.
'Wouldn't be the Jordan River, would it?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah?  Ya think Arabs shouldn't have attacked Israel?  There was no such thing as Palestinians. Check it out. Palestine is the biggest fraud perpetrated on mankind. After Islam that is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. The establishment of an armistice between the armed forces of the two Parties is accepted as an indispensable step toward the liquidation of armed conflict and the restoration of peace *in Palestine.*
> 
> 2. This withdrawal shall begin on the day after that which follows the signing of this Agreement, at 0500 hours GMT, and shall be beyond the* Egypt-Palestine frontier.*
> 
> 2. The area thus demilitarized shall be as follows: From a point on the *Egypt-Palestine frontier* five (5) kilometres north-west... thence returning north-west along the *Egypt-Palestine frontier* to the point of origin.
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of* entering Palestine. *
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now, tinny. I'm guessing that you are not understanding that "Palestine" is a clear reference to Israel and why that is the case.
> 
> See if you can think this through. I'll check back later and if you can't work through it, I'lll help you out.
Click to expand...


Yes, please do.

This is going to be good.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 4. The establishment of an armistice between the armed forces of the two Parties is accepted as an indispensable step toward the liquidation of armed conflict and the restoration of peace *in Palestine.*
> 
> 2. This withdrawal shall begin on the day after that which follows the signing of this Agreement, at 0500 hours GMT, and shall be beyond the* Egypt-Palestine frontier.*
> 
> 2. The area thus demilitarized shall be as follows: From a point on the *Egypt-Palestine frontier* five (5) kilometres north-west... thence returning north-west along the *Egypt-Palestine frontier* to the point of origin.
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of* entering Palestine. *
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, tinny. I'm guessing that you are not understanding that "Palestine" is a clear reference to Israel and why that is the case.
> 
> See if you can think this through. I'll check back later and if you can't work through it, I'lll help you out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, please do.
> 
> This is going to be good.
Click to expand...


Oh, it is good, tinny. You came up short as usual thats not surprising. 

Go through the link you posted. Do a search for Israel. You wont find it. Why? Because any explicit reference to Israel by an Arab dictator would have been disastrous for him. He would have looked weak and would have been viewed as conceding tacit acceptance of Israel as a sovereign state. That would have allowed the rats to start gnawing at his feet.


----------



## georgephillip

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> psed007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi there,
> I've also joined this forum to have more opinions to think about. Sorry for my English, I'am just an Austrian guy
> 
> I have tried to get into different point of views, but at the end it comes down to this: palestine is occupied by israel. hmmm...
> My point of view is the following:
> When I realized this problem and heard more and more people talking about this topic, I have started to read different books, articles, forums etc...
> I heard the jews occupy a territory which not belongs to them. This was the first reason I entered this theme. I started to read the Torah, (5 book of moses) as a base literature. A lot of people told me this is only a fairy tale book and I should not take the stories inside as valid information ?!?!?!? Ok.... I just went on with reading. My impression was that the geographical  facts are true because you can visit the places mentioned 3500 Years ago. Here came my first question? Why palestina is not mentioned there. And why the holly land is promised to the jews. I continued reading with ordinary history books. I have discovered that the name palestina were given by the romans and the land was called judea before. Furthermore I have discovered that the palestine name is coming from Philistines. They were an  Indo-European people. What I have to say ?!?!? Palestine never existed as a state, they never had an own government, own money, own something. So I could not find out who are the real palestine people beside that the cultural roots is to be found in the land of jordan. Maybe someone has the answer: Why people just keep on ignoring history and why we just let them ?
> 
> 
> 
> Consider some recent history of Palestine along with what you've already read.
> In 1948 one-third of all citizens of Mandate Palestine imposed a Jewish state by force of arms on their neighbors.
> This was one result:
> 
> "The 1948 Palestinian exodus, known in Arabic as the Nakba (Arabic: &#1575;&#1604;&#1606;&#1603;&#1576;&#1577;*, an-Nakbah, lit. 'disaster', 'catastrophe', or 'cataclysm'),[1] occurred when approximately 711,000 to 725,000 Palestinian Arabs left, fled or were expelled from their homes, during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War and the 1947&#8211;1948 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine that preceded it."
> 
> I'm still trying to understand why Jews alone, among all people, are entitled to lands their ancestors conquered thousands of years ago?
> 
> Welcome to the asylum where inmates RULE!
> 
> 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah?  Ya think Arabs shouldn't have attacked Israel?  There was no such thing as Palestinians. Check it out. Palestine is the biggest fraud perpetrated on mankind. After Islam that is.
Click to expand...

Let's check it out...

In 1948 over 700,000 citizens of Mandate Palestine, aka, Palestinians, were evicted from their homes and businesses (not to mention their bank accounts) by one-third of their fellow Palestinians. The biggest fraud of all times is Zionism with the possible exceptions of Islam, Christianity, and Judaism.

And fools like you.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, tinny. I'm guessing that you are not understanding that "Palestine" is a clear reference to Israel and why that is the case.
> 
> See if you can think this through. I'll check back later and if you can't work through it, I'lll help you out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, please do.
> 
> This is going to be good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, it is good, tinny. You came up short as usual thats not surprising.
> 
> Go through the link you posted. Do a search for Israel. You wont find it. Why? Because any explicit reference to Israel by an Arab dictator would have been disastrous for him. He would have looked weak and would have been viewed as conceding tacit acceptance of Israel as a sovereign state. That would have allowed the rats to start gnawing at his feet.
Click to expand...




> Go through the link you posted. Do a search for Israel. You wont find it.



Indeed.

I was waiting for you to give the hep you offered.


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Here's the point, Serpent...Israel is NOT that special.*
> 
> "More recently, FBI counter intelligence officer John Cole has reported how many cases of Israeli espionage are dropped under orders from the Justice Department. He provides a '*conservative estimate*' of 125 worthwhile investigations into Israeli espionage involving both American citizens and Israelis that were stopped due to political pressure from above.
> 
> "Two stories that have been reported in the Israeli media but are strangely absent from the news on this side of the Atlantic demonstrate exactly what is going on and what is at stake.
> 
> "*The first report confirms Tel Aviv&#8217;s efforts to obtain US technology are ongoing.*
> 
> Phil Giraldi Spills Beans on Israeli Espionage in America | Veterans Today
> 
> *What do you know about snakes in the Promised Land?*
> 
> 
> 
> One of these days you're gonaa get buried in your own IslamoNazi shit propoganda, and the world will be a much better place after that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you claiming to be a US citizen?
> If so, why are you denying the existence of alleged espionage committed by US citizens on behalf of Israel?
> 
> "Stewart David Nozette, a US government scientist who was arrested in an October 2009 FBI sting operation after offering to spy for Israel, has been waiting in jail to go to trial on espionage charges.
> New documents in the case were presented in the Federal court in Washington last year. The documents confirm that Nozette was a paid consultant for Israeli Aerospace Industries and it is believed that he passed to them classified material in return for an estimated $225,000 in 'consulting' fees.
> 
> Do you personally accept any "consulting fees" from Israeli interests?
> 
> Phil Giraldi Spills Beans on Israeli Espionage in America | Veterans Today
Click to expand...

George this isn't a Muslim shithole where minorities' citizenships are revoked and they are tortured and killed for their faith. And you can take those Phil articles for conspiracy islamoNazi lunatics like yourself and shove them up our Mohammad.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, please do.
> 
> This is going to be good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, it is good, tinny. You came up short as usual thats not surprising.
> 
> Go through the link you posted. Do a search for Israel. You wont find it. Why? Because any explicit reference to Israel by an Arab dictator would have been disastrous for him. He would have looked weak and would have been viewed as conceding tacit acceptance of Israel as a sovereign state. That would have allowed the rats to start gnawing at his feet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go through the link you posted. Do a search for Israel. You wont find it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> I was waiting for you to give the hep you offered.
Click to expand...


Glad to hep. 

Do a search for "Egypt". You _will_ find it. Isn't that odd?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, it is good, tinny. You came up short as usual thats not surprising.
> 
> Go through the link you posted. Do a search for Israel. You wont find it. Why? Because any explicit reference to Israel by an Arab dictator would have been disastrous for him. He would have looked weak and would have been viewed as conceding tacit acceptance of Israel as a sovereign state. That would have allowed the rats to start gnawing at his feet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go through the link you posted. Do a search for Israel. You wont find it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> I was waiting for you to give the hep you offered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Glad to hep.
> 
> Do a search for "Egypt". You _will_ find it. Isn't that odd?
Click to expand...


OK.

And?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> I was waiting for you to give the hep you offered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to hep.
> 
> Do a search for "Egypt". You _will_ find it. Isn't that odd?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK.
> 
> And?
Click to expand...


Masterful concision, tinny.

The wording was very precise and very calculated within the agreement. That is why Egypt was clearly referenced and Israel was not.  Do you now see why?


----------



## georgephillip

Stewart David Nozette is no conspiracy theory, Roudy.
Why would a US citizen condone Israeli espionage?
Are you red, white, and (Star of David) blue?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to hep.
> 
> Do a search for "Egypt". You _will_ find it. Isn't that odd?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK.
> 
> And?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Masterful concision, tinny.
> 
> The wording was very precise and very calculated within the agreement. That is why Egypt was clearly referenced and Israel was not.  Do you now see why?
Click to expand...




> All other Israeli forces shall be withdrawn from this area...
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949



They call Israel Palestine yet they call the forces Israeli.

You said you would help me with that.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK.
> 
> And?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Masterful concision, tinny.
> 
> The wording was very precise and very calculated within the agreement. That is why Egypt was clearly referenced and Israel was not.  Do you now see why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All other Israeli forces shall be withdrawn from this area...
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They call Israel Palestine yet they call the forces Israeli.
> 
> You said you would help me with that.
Click to expand...


I did help you with that.

I'm guessing that it will need to be repeated to you, in tedious fashion, many more times, before you get a grasp of the context. 

Here it is again for you. I counted 13 separate instances of Israeli, not a single instance of Israel.

"Egypt" is written out as well as Egyptian. Palestine is similarly written out. 

I gave you an explanation of that, already. 

Why not tell us up front how many times you will feign ignorance of what has been explained to you?

Or is it ignorance, plain and simple?


----------



## drtywhtboy

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Masterful concision, tinny.
> 
> The wording was very precise and very calculated within the agreement. That is why Egypt was clearly referenced and Israel was not.  Do you now see why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All other Israeli forces shall be withdrawn from this area...
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They call Israel Palestine yet they call the forces Israeli.
> 
> You said you would help me with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did help you with that.
> 
> I'm guessing that it will need to be repeated to you, in tedious fashion, many more times, before you get a grasp of the context.
> 
> Here it is again for you. I counted 13 separate instances of Israeli, not a single instance of Israel.
> 
> "Egypt" is written out as well as Egyptian. Palestine is similarly written out.
> 
> I gave you an explanation of that, already.
> 
> Why not tell us up front how many times you will feign ignorance of what has been explained to you?
> 
> Or is it ignorance, plain and simple?
Click to expand...


I don't think they are faking it......


----------



## Roudy

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah?  Ya think Arabs shouldn't have attacked Israel?  There was no such thing as Palestinians. Check it out. Palestine is the biggest fraud perpetrated on mankind. After Islam that is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. The establishment of an armistice between the armed forces of the two Parties is accepted as an indispensable step toward the liquidation of armed conflict and the restoration of peace *in Palestine.*
> 
> 2. This withdrawal shall begin on the day after that which follows the signing of this Agreement, at 0500 hours GMT, and shall be beyond the* Egypt-Palestine frontier.*
> 
> 2. The area thus demilitarized shall be as follows: From a point on the *Egypt-Palestine frontier* five (5) kilometres north-west... thence returning north-west along the *Egypt-Palestine frontier* to the point of origin.
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of* entering Palestine. *
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now, tinny. I'm guessing that you are not understanding that "Palestine" is a clear reference to Israel and why that is the case.
> 
> See if you can think this through. I'll check back later and if you can't work through it, I'lll help you out.
Click to expand...

He forgot to mention that "Palestine" included JORDAN.  Simply put, if they would have given an inch to the Jews and declared it as a Jewish state, the Arabs would have still attacked Israel.  This conflict is about Islamic intolerance.


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Here's the point, Serpent...Israel is NOT that special.*
> 
> "More recently, FBI counter intelligence officer John Cole has reported how many cases of Israeli espionage are dropped under orders from the Justice Department. He provides a '*conservative estimate*' of 125 worthwhile investigations into Israeli espionage involving both American citizens and Israelis that were stopped due to political pressure from above.
> 
> "Two stories that have been reported in the Israeli media but are strangely absent from the news on this side of the Atlantic demonstrate exactly what is going on and what is at stake.
> 
> "*The first report confirms Tel Aviv&#8217;s efforts to obtain US technology are ongoing.*
> 
> Phil Giraldi Spills Beans on Israeli Espionage in America | Veterans Today
> 
> *What do you know about snakes in the Promised Land?*
> 
> 
> 
> One of these days you're gonaa get buried in your own IslamoNazi shit propoganda, and the world will be a much better place after that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you claiming to be a US citizen?
> If so, why are you denying the existence of alleged espionage committed by US citizens on behalf of Israel?
> 
> "Stewart David Nozette, a US government scientist who was arrested in an October 2009 FBI sting operation after offering to spy for Israel, has been waiting in jail to go to trial on espionage charges.
> New documents in the case were presented in the Federal court in Washington last year. The documents confirm that Nozette was a paid consultant for Israeli Aerospace Industries and it is believed that he passed to them classified material in return for an estimated $225,000 in 'consulting' fees.
> 
> Do you personally accept any "consulting fees" from Israeli interests?
> 
> Phil Giraldi Spills Beans on Israeli Espionage in America | Veterans Today
Click to expand...

Nazi Palestine Continues Its Jihad Against The Jews While Pretending To Be For Peace
Isn&#8217;t it so quite the obvious that the Palestinian cause is nothing more than a big fraud?  What the leaders of the Palestinian government have done is purposely trying to have it both ways ever since they had come about.  They are still using American tax payer money to fund their own front groups of hate who smear Israel of being behind 9/11 among other things, compare Israel to Nazi Germany even though one of the biggest supporters of Nazi Germany was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem during World War II.Here is a list of front groups the Palestinian Authority, that&#8217;s right the &#8220;moderate&#8221; Palestinian Authority is funding through a number of front groups:

 &#8226;Council for the National Interest: This is led by former Congressman Paul Findley, along with also Philip Giraldi.  Very scary anti-Semites who have been very active on promoting anti-Semitic propaganda on the Internet.  Giraldi, especially is ten times scarier than Findley, as he has intelligence background in the CIA, which makes one wonder why the CIA allows a &#8220;moderate&#8221; Palestinian Authority to receive so much of America&#8217;s own tax money for all this time.  Findley is a known supporter of the Palestine Liberation Organization, a group led by the late Yasser Arafat, now by Mahmoud Abbas who runs the Palestinian Authority.

 &#8226;If Americans Knew: Another front group organized by Findley and the Palestinian Authority, it&#8217;s purpose is purely to promote propaganda.

 &#8226;VeteransToday.com: An anti-Semitic website run by Gordon Duff who is a proponent of Findley and Giraldi&#8217;s wicked ideas of how 9/11 was done by Israel.  Duff also doesn&#8217;t mind not just receiving support from the Palestinian Authority, but also from the governments of Russia, Iran and Pakistan, where Hamid Gul, a former Pakistani ISI leader is a columnist.  He also has connections with anti-Semites like Eric May who purposely use the Internet to forment 9/11 &#8220;Truth&#8221; propaganda that doesn&#8217;t make sense and cannot be proven; along with also European holocaust deniers like Ernst Zundel.

 &#8226;Antiwar.com: Website run by Justin Raimondo who regularly also promotes how Israel was behind 9/11.  Philip Giraldi also hangs around that wicked website as well.  Raimondo is a well known supporter of Ron Paul, along with also the John Birch Society which has been supporting Ron Paul&#8217;s campaign.  Raimondo has also been more than happy to promote propaganda against his own country.


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Not "who" but "what."*
> 
> "Although access to New York banks remains essential for foreign exchange transactions because of the role of the dollar, interbank transfer instructions are conducted through the *Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT)*, which is based in Belgium. So, instead of New York &#8212; as in the period when sanctions were applied on South Africa&#8211; Belgium is now the pressure point."
> 
> Still confused?
> Call Mitt.
> 
> Terry Crawford-Browne: To end the occupation, cripple Israeli banks | Israeli Occupation Archive
> 
> 
> 
> How much of your daily 24 hours do you dedicate to masturbating for the destruction of Israel, oh curious George the Muslim monkey?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Define "Israel", Snake-face.
> Specifically its eastern border.
> 'Wouldn't be the Jordan River, would it?
Click to expand...

Ok here we go, anther popular anti semtic theory among those who bend over and raise their asses five times a day, it's the "Israel has no borders" Mohammadian garbage.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Masterful concision, tinny.
> 
> The wording was very precise and very calculated within the agreement. That is why Egypt was clearly referenced and Israel was not.  Do you now see why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All other Israeli forces shall be withdrawn from this area...
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They call Israel Palestine yet they call the forces Israeli.
> 
> You said you would help me with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did help you with that.
> 
> I'm guessing that it will need to be repeated to you, in tedious fashion, many more times, before you get a grasp of the context.
> 
> Here it is again for you. I counted 13 separate instances of Israeli, not a single instance of Israel.
> 
> "Egypt" is written out as well as Egyptian. Palestine is similarly written out.
> 
> I gave you an explanation of that, already.
> 
> Why not tell us up front how many times you will feign ignorance of what has been explained to you?
> 
> Or is it ignorance, plain and simple?
Click to expand...


Repeating a lie does not make it true. That doesn't work for me. I need more than your say so. Maybe a place called Israel was not mentioned because it was not there.

Show me some documentation to prove what you say is true.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They call Israel Palestine yet they call the forces Israeli.
> 
> You said you would help me with that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did help you with that.
> 
> I'm guessing that it will need to be repeated to you, in tedious fashion, many more times, before you get a grasp of the context.
> 
> Here it is again for you. I counted 13 separate instances of Israeli, not a single instance of Israel.
> 
> "Egypt" is written out as well as Egyptian. Palestine is similarly written out.
> 
> I gave you an explanation of that, already.
> 
> Why not tell us up front how many times you will feign ignorance of what has been explained to you?
> 
> Or is it ignorance, plain and simple?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Repeating a lie does not make it true. That doesn't work for me. I need more than your say so. Maybe a place called Israel was not mentioned because it was not there.
> 
> Show me some documentation to prove what you say is true.
Click to expand...

Heh?  Are you out of your fucking mind?


----------



## DavidS

MrAlwaysRight said:


> The Palestinian government recognizes Israel's right to exist.
> 
> When will Israel recognize Palestine's right to exist?



It does exist. It's just named Jordan.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They call Israel Palestine yet they call the forces Israeli.
> 
> You said you would help me with that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did help you with that.
> 
> I'm guessing that it will need to be repeated to you, in tedious fashion, many more times, before you get a grasp of the context.
> 
> Here it is again for you. I counted 13 separate instances of Israeli, not a single instance of Israel.
> 
> "Egypt" is written out as well as Egyptian. Palestine is similarly written out.
> 
> I gave you an explanation of that, already.
> 
> Why not tell us up front how many times you will feign ignorance of what has been explained to you?
> 
> Or is it ignorance, plain and simple?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Repeating a lie does not make it true. That doesn't work for me. I need more than your say so. Maybe a place called Israel was not mentioned because it was not there.
> 
> Show me some documentation to prove what you say is true.
Click to expand...


Now, tinny. You're flailing around. I responded to the document you posted. Are you now claiming the document you posted is untrue?


----------



## editec

Israel is NO DIFFERENT than any other nation.

Its right to exist comes from its ability to maintain its borders and control its own destiny.

There's no philosophical "right" to exist, there is only the _de facto_ reality of whether any nation maintain its own existence.

Nations come and nations go, and sometimes, they come and then go and then they come back again.


----------



## patrickcaturday

> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is NO DIFFERENT than any other nation.
> 
> Its right to exist comes from its ability to maintain its borders and control its own destiny.
> 
> There's no philosophical "right" to exist, there is only the _de facto_ reality of whether any nation maintain its own existence.
> 
> Nations come and nations go, and sometimes, they come and then go and then they come back again.
Click to expand...




*Good answer mirrored by some of the other answers already given on this thread, especially those given by Seal.  I don't mean to add another level of complication to this question but the real problem that is raised by the phrase " RIGHT TO EXIST " in the case of Israel is the words that the Israeli Government is insisting that all nations also acknowledge, and those are " AS A JEWISH NATION ".

While the Right to Exist is a factual matter only addressed by the actual existence of the country, as soon as you toss in the rest of the words you are not only asking for a factual statement but also for a moral judgement, and that is where the question becomes complicated ( get it now High Gravity Roudy and others ).  Moral judgements are what an individual or a society deems to be good or evil and anyone with a brain can see how this would muddy the question.  As Seal and others have pointed out many Arab Countries including the PLO have agreed to Israel's Right to Exist they are just not ready to agree to the political and moral ramifications that using " AS A JEWISH STATE " implies. *


----------



## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They call Israel Palestine yet they call the forces Israeli.
> 
> You said you would help me with that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did help you with that.
> 
> I'm guessing that it will need to be repeated to you, in tedious fashion, many more times, before you get a grasp of the context.
> 
> Here it is again for you. I counted 13 separate instances of Israeli, not a single instance of Israel.
> 
> "Egypt" is written out as well as Egyptian. Palestine is similarly written out.
> 
> I gave you an explanation of that, already.
> 
> Why not tell us up front how many times you will feign ignorance of what has been explained to you?
> 
> Or is it ignorance, plain and simple?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Repeating a lie does not make it true. That doesn't work for me. I need more than your say so. Maybe a place called Israel was not mentioned because it was not there.
> 
> Show me some documentation to prove what you say is true.
Click to expand...



You crack me up, TinHorn. You post PIC ("The Voice of Palestine") camel crap and meaningless YouTubes like it's your job and you have the temerity to throw stones?
I suppose the only way to justify your BS is to be the unconscious hypocrite you are.


----------



## P F Tinmore

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did help you with that.
> 
> I'm guessing that it will need to be repeated to you, in tedious fashion, many more times, before you get a grasp of the context.
> 
> Here it is again for you. I counted 13 separate instances of Israeli, not a single instance of Israel.
> 
> "Egypt" is written out as well as Egyptian. Palestine is similarly written out.
> 
> I gave you an explanation of that, already.
> 
> Why not tell us up front how many times you will feign ignorance of what has been explained to you?
> 
> Or is it ignorance, plain and simple?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Repeating a lie does not make it true. That doesn't work for me. I need more than your say so. Maybe a place called Israel was not mentioned because it was not there.
> 
> Show me some documentation to prove what you say is true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You crack me up, TinHorn. You post PIC ("The Voice of Palestine") camel crap and meaningless YouTubes like it's your job and you have the temerity to throw stones?
> I suppose the only way to justify your BS is to be the unconscious hypocrite you are.
Click to expand...


I take it you have no documentation to back up that assertion so you are just going to blow smoke.


----------



## SAYIT

editec said:


> Israel is NO DIFFERENT than any other nation.
> 
> Its right to exist comes from its ability to maintain its borders and control its own destiny.
> 
> There's no philosophical "right" to exist, there is only the _de facto_ reality of whether any nation maintain its own existence.
> 
> Nations come and nations go, and sometimes, they come and then go and then they come back again.



Simple and straight to the point but, unfortunately, a point that some here (well, at least TinHorn) will still be unable or unwilling to process. 
The obvious question is why do the same posters repeatedly get into the same "right to exist" argument as though their question hasn't been answered hundreds of times?
Answer: PROPAGANDA
They are so busy selling their hate they can't deal with the fact their queries have been answered.
Poor TinHorn argued with me for days that UN 181 is null and void, _a position I agreed with before he even posted it and continued to agree with every time he brought it up to argue_! 
Definitely something wrong with that boy.


----------



## sealadaigh

editec said:


> Israel is NO DIFFERENT than any other nation.
> 
> Its right to exist comes from its *ability to maintain *its borders and control its own destiny.
> 
> There's no philosophical "right" to exist, there is only the _de facto_ reality of whether any nation maintain its own existence.
> 
> Nations come and nations go, and sometimes, they come and then go and then they come back again.



i think in this case, "inability to restrain" might be a more appropriate phrase.


----------



## P F Tinmore

reabhloideach said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is NO DIFFERENT than any other nation.
> 
> Its right to exist comes from its ability to *maintain *its borders and control its own destiny.
> 
> There's no philosophical "right" to exist, there is only the _de facto_ reality of whether any nation maintain its own existence.
> 
> Nations come and nations go, and sometimes, they come and then go and then they come back again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i think in this case, "restrain" might be a more appropriate word.
Click to expand...


Actually, Israel has no borders.


----------



## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Repeating a lie does not make it true. That doesn't work for me. I need more than your say so. Maybe a place called Israel was not mentioned because it was not there.
> 
> Show me some documentation to prove what you say is true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You crack me up, TinHorn. You post PIC ("The Voice of Palestine") camel crap and meaningless YouTubes like it's your job and you have the temerity to throw stones?
> I suppose the only way to justify your BS is to be the unconscious hypocrite you are.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I take it you have no documentation to back up that assertion so you are just going to blow smoke.
Click to expand...


Really? Are you now denying you post both "Voice of Palestine" camel crap and mindless YouTube videos as "proof" of your claims?


----------



## P F Tinmore

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You crack me up, TinHorn. You post PIC ("The Voice of Palestine") camel crap and meaningless YouTubes like it's your job and you have the temerity to throw stones?
> I suppose the only way to justify your BS is to be the unconscious hypocrite you are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I take it you have no documentation to back up that assertion so you are just going to blow smoke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really? Are you now denying you post both "Voice of Palestine" camel crap and mindless YouTube videos as "proof" of your claims?
Click to expand...


The assertion in question has to do with legal documents.


----------



## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is NO DIFFERENT than any other nation.
> 
> Its right to exist comes from its ability to *maintain *its borders and control its own destiny.
> 
> There's no philosophical "right" to exist, there is only the _de facto_ reality of whether any nation maintain its own existence.
> 
> Nations come and nations go, and sometimes, they come and then go and then they come back again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i think in this case, "restrain" might be a more appropriate word.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, Israel has no borders.
Click to expand...


You're just being an obtuse little girl again, Princess.
Borders of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## P F Tinmore

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think in this case, "restrain" might be a more appropriate word.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, Israel has no borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're just being an obtuse little girl again, Princess.
> Borders of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


From your link:



> Israel's borders are the borders of the State of Israel. The borders have changed from time to time with developments in Israel's military and diplomatic situation. It borders Lebanon in the north, Syria in the northeast, Jordan and the West Bank in the east, the Gaza Strip and Egypt on the southwest.*[citation needed]*



That is what I am looking for. Not just *say so* but actual documents showing Israel's acquisition of land and borders.


----------



## sealadaigh

patrickcaturday said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is NO DIFFERENT than any other nation.
> 
> Its right to exist comes from its ability to maintain its borders and control its own destiny.
> 
> There's no philosophical "right" to exist, there is only the _de facto_ reality of whether any nation maintain its own existence.
> 
> Nations come and nations go, and sometimes, they come and then go and then they come back again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Good answer mirrored by some of the other answers already given on this thread, especially those given by Seal.  I don't mean to add another level of complication to this question but the real problem that is raised by the phrase " RIGHT TO EXIST " in the case of Israel is the words that the Israeli Government is insisting that all nations also acknowledge, and those are " AS A JEWISH NATION ".
> 
> While the Right to Exist is a factual matter only addressed by the actual existence of the country, as soon as you toss in the rest of the words you are not only asking for a factual statement but also for a moral judgement, and that is where the question becomes complicated ( get it now High Gravity Roudy and others ).  Moral judgements are what an individual or a society deems to be good or evil and anyone with a brain can see how this would muddy the question.  As Seal and others have pointed out many Arab Countries including the PLO have agreed to Israel's Right to Exist they are just not ready to agree to the political and moral ramifications that using " AS A JEWISH STATE " implies. *
Click to expand...


that "as a jewish state" was an add on after almost all of the arab world recognised israel's right to exist.

imagine f.w. de klerk (the last president of apartheid south africa and the man who eventually helped give that country a true democracy) saying to nelson mandela and the ANC that they had to recognise south africa's right to exist as a caucasion state.

better yet, imagine if the united states insisting, before they had any further dealings with the state of israel, that she recognise us as a christian state (an idea i think we can sell to the evabgelicals until in, what are the projections, 20 years from now, we become a a predominately catholic state...note to self: get ADL playbook and portray all those against immigration, be it legal or illegal, as anti-catholic nativist no nothing bigots). fortunately, on that one, i am sure the american jews would be on our side in this. they wouldn't want to appear to have a double standard as they have already come out in agreement that included in a state's right to exist is the right to exist as a defined ethnic or religious state.


----------



## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I take it you have no documentation to back up that assertion so you are just going to blow smoke.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really? Are you now denying you post both "Voice of Palestine" camel crap and mindless YouTube videos as "proof" of your claims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The assertion in question has to do with legal documents.
Click to expand...


My assertion is clear ... that those who live in glass houses (and that means you, Princess) have no business throwing stones.


----------



## P F Tinmore

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really? Are you now denying you post both "Voice of Palestine" camel crap and mindless YouTube videos as "proof" of your claims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The assertion in question has to do with legal documents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My assertion is clear ... that those who live in glass houses (and that means you, Princess) have no business throwing stones.
Click to expand...


Still no documents, huh?


----------



## Billo_Really

reabhloideach said:


> that "as a jewish state" was an add on after almost all of the arab world recognised israel's right to exist.


Nations don't have rights, people do.


----------



## georgephillip

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of these days you're gonaa get buried in your own IslamoNazi shit propoganda, and the world will be a much better place after that.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you claiming to be a US citizen?
> If so, why are you denying the existence of alleged espionage committed by US citizens on behalf of Israel?
> 
> "Stewart David Nozette, a US government scientist who was arrested in an October 2009 FBI sting operation after offering to spy for Israel, has been waiting in jail to go to trial on espionage charges.
> New documents in the case were presented in the Federal court in Washington last year. The documents confirm that Nozette was a paid consultant for Israeli Aerospace Industries and it is believed that he passed to them classified material in return for an estimated $225,000 in 'consulting' fees.
> 
> Do you personally accept any "consulting fees" from Israeli interests?
> 
> Phil Giraldi Spills Beans on Israeli Espionage in America | Veterans Today
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nazi Palestine Continues Its Jihad Against The Jews While Pretending To Be For Peace
> Isn&#8217;t it so quite the obvious that the Palestinian cause is nothing more than a big fraud?  What the leaders of the Palestinian government have done is purposely trying to have it both ways ever since they had come about.  They are still using American tax payer money to fund their own front groups of hate who smear Israel of being behind 9/11 among other things, compare Israel to Nazi Germany even though one of the biggest supporters of Nazi Germany was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem during World War II.Here is a list of front groups the Palestinian Authority, that&#8217;s right the &#8220;moderate&#8221; Palestinian Authority is funding through a number of front groups:
> 
> &#8226;Council for the National Interest: This is led by former Congressman Paul Findley, along with also Philip Giraldi.  Very scary anti-Semites who have been very active on promoting anti-Semitic propaganda on the Internet.  Giraldi, especially is ten times scarier than Findley, as he has intelligence background in the CIA, which makes one wonder why the CIA allows a &#8220;moderate&#8221; Palestinian Authority to receive so much of America&#8217;s own tax money for all this time.  Findley is a known supporter of the Palestine Liberation Organization, a group led by the late Yasser Arafat, now by Mahmoud Abbas who runs the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> &#8226;If Americans Knew: Another front group organized by Findley and the Palestinian Authority, it&#8217;s purpose is purely to promote propaganda.
> 
> &#8226;VeteransToday.com: An anti-Semitic website run by Gordon Duff who is a proponent of Findley and Giraldi&#8217;s wicked ideas of how 9/11 was done by Israel.  Duff also doesn&#8217;t mind not just receiving support from the Palestinian Authority, but also from the governments of Russia, Iran and Pakistan, where Hamid Gul, a former Pakistani ISI leader is a columnist.  He also has connections with anti-Semites like Eric May who purposely use the Internet to forment 9/11 &#8220;Truth&#8221; propaganda that doesn&#8217;t make sense and cannot be proven; along with also European holocaust deniers like Ernst Zundel.
> 
> &#8226;Antiwar.com: Website run by Justin Raimondo who regularly also promotes how Israel was behind 9/11.  Philip Giraldi also hangs around that wicked website as well.  Raimondo is a well known supporter of Ron Paul, along with also the John Birch Society which has been supporting Ron Paul&#8217;s campaign.  Raimondo has also been more than happy to promote propaganda against his own country.
Click to expand...

*Here's another very scary wicked web site for hasbara to hide from:*

"Jonathan Jay Pollard (born August 7, 1954, Galveston, Texas) worked as an American civilian intelligence analyst before being convicted of spying for Israel. *He received a life sentence in 1987*."

Jonathan Pollard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*Is your loyalty to Israel or the USA?*


----------



## ima

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really? Are you now denying you post both "Voice of Palestine" camel crap and mindless YouTube videos as "proof" of your claims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The assertion in question has to do with legal documents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My assertion is clear ... that those who live in glass houses (and that means you, Princess) have no business throwing stones.
Click to expand...


...or the Israeli army will shoot you.


----------



## georgephillip

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> How much of your daily 24 hours do you dedicate to masturbating for the destruction of Israel, oh curious George the Muslim monkey?
> 
> 
> 
> Define "Israel", Snake-face.
> Specifically its eastern border.
> 'Wouldn't be the Jordan River, would it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok here we go, anther popular anti semtic theory among those who bend over and raise their asses five times a day, it's the "Israel has no borders" Mohammadian garbage.
Click to expand...

Israel?
Eastern border?
Jordan River?
Euphrates?!?


----------



## georgephillip

ima said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The assertion in question has to do with legal documents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My assertion is clear ... that those who live in glass houses (and that means you, Princess) have no business throwing stones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ...or the Israeli army will shoot you.
Click to expand...

And your children.


----------



## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, Israel has no borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're just being an obtuse little girl again, Princess.
> Borders of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From your link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's borders are the borders of the State of Israel. The borders have changed from time to time with developments in Israel's military and diplomatic situation. It borders Lebanon in the north, Syria in the northeast, Jordan and the West Bank in the east, the Gaza Strip and Egypt on the southwest.*[citation needed]*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is what I am looking for. Not just *say so* but actual documents showing Israel's acquisition of land and borders.
Click to expand...


Whatever. We both know nothing would satisfy one who firmly believes that the state of "Palestine" exists and Israel does not but just as a reminder:
Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
"Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!

India, US learning from Israels border security
Jerusalem Post - Defense

Images For Israel's Borders
israel's borders - Google Search


----------



## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The assertion in question has to do with legal documents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My assertion is clear ... that those who live in glass houses (and that means you, Princess) have no business throwing stones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Still no documents, huh?
Click to expand...


Still no clue, eh?
You want documents to prove my assertion?


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> My assertion is clear ... that those who live in glass houses (and that means you, Princess) have no business throwing stones.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...or the Israeli army will shoot you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And your children.
Click to expand...


Perhaps you shouldn't have your children in front of you when challenging Israel's border guards.


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think in this case, "restrain" might be a more appropriate word.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, Israel has no borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're just being an obtuse little girl again, Princess.
> Borders of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

*From your link, Golda:*

"Israel's borders are the borders of the State of Israel. The borders have changed from time to time with developments in Israel's military and diplomatic situation. It borders Lebanon in the north, Syria in the northeast, Jordan *and the West Bank* in the east..."

Where's the line in the sand separating Israel and the West Bank, somewhere within 60% of Area C?


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, Israel has no borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're just being an obtuse little girl again, Princess.
> Borders of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *From your link, Golda:*
> 
> "Israel's borders are the borders of the State of Israel. The borders have changed from time to time with developments in Israel's military and diplomatic situation. It borders Lebanon in the north, Syria in the northeast, Jordan *and the West Bank* in the east..."
> 
> Where's the line in the sand separating Israel and the West Bank, somewhere within 60% of Area C?
Click to expand...

Israel's borders are defined as the positions of IDF tanks at any given time. Flexible.


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, Israel has no borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're just being an obtuse little girl again, Princess.
> Borders of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *From your link, Golda:*
> 
> "Israel's borders are the borders of the State of Israel. The borders have changed from time to time with developments in Israel's military and diplomatic situation. It borders Lebanon in the north, Syria in the northeast, Jordan *and the West Bank* in the east..."
> 
> Where's the line in the sand separating Israel and the West Bank, somewhere within 60% of Area C?
Click to expand...


TinHorn insists Israel has no borders. That claim is patently false.


----------



## P F Tinmore

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're just being an obtuse little girl again, Princess.
> Borders of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From your link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's borders are the borders of the State of Israel. The borders have changed from time to time with developments in Israel's military and diplomatic situation. It borders Lebanon in the north, Syria in the northeast, Jordan and the West Bank in the east, the Gaza Strip and Egypt on the southwest.*[citation needed]*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is what I am looking for. Not just *say so* but actual documents showing Israel's acquisition of land and borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whatever. We both know nothing would satisfy one who firmly believes that the state of "Palestine" exists and Israel does not but just as a reminder:
> Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
> "Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!
> 
> India, US learning from Israels border security
> Jerusalem Post - Defense
> 
> Images For Israel's Borders
> israel's borders - Google Search
Click to expand...


The transfer of land and changes in borders are done through documented agreements not just say so. Post the documents to back up your assertion.

Cue song and dance
3
2
1


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From your link:
> 
> 
> 
> That is what I am looking for. Not just *say so* but actual documents showing Israel's acquisition of land and borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever. We both know nothing would satisfy one who firmly believes that the state of "Palestine" exists and Israel does not but just as a reminder:
> Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
> "Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!
> 
> India, US learning from Israels border security
> Jerusalem Post - Defense
> 
> Images For Israel's Borders
> israel's borders - Google Search
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The transfer of land and changes in borders are done through documented agreements not just say so. Post the documents to back up your assertion.
> 
> Cue song and dance
> 3
> 2
> 1
Click to expand...

** See post # 574 for clarification.


----------



## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From your link:
> 
> 
> 
> That is what I am looking for. Not just *say so* but actual documents showing Israel's acquisition of land and borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever. We both know nothing would satisfy one who firmly believes that the state of "Palestine" exists and Israel does not but just as a reminder:
> Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
> "Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!
> 
> India, US learning from Israels border security
> Jerusalem Post - Defense
> 
> Images For Israel's Borders
> israel's borders - Google Search
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The transfer of land and changes in borders are done through documented agreements not just say so. Post the documents to back up your assertion.
> 
> Cue song and dance
> 3
> 2
> 1
Click to expand...


Self-serving camel crap.


----------



## P F Tinmore

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever. We both know nothing would satisfy one who firmly believes that the state of "Palestine" exists and Israel does not but just as a reminder:
> Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
> "Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!
> 
> India, US learning from Israels border security
> Jerusalem Post - Defense
> 
> Images For Israel's Borders
> israel's borders - Google Search
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The transfer of land and changes in borders are done through documented agreements not just say so. Post the documents to back up your assertion.
> 
> Cue song and dance
> 3
> 2
> 1
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Self-serving camel crap.
Click to expand...


Right on cue.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever. We both know nothing would satisfy one who firmly believes that the state of "Palestine" exists and Israel does not but just as a reminder:
> Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
> "Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!
> 
> India, US learning from Israels border security
> Jerusalem Post - Defense
> 
> Images For Israel's Borders
> israel's borders - Google Search
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The transfer of land and changes in borders are done through documented agreements not just say so. Post the documents to back up your assertion.
> 
> Cue song and dance
> 3
> 2
> 1
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ** See post # 574 for clarification.
Click to expand...


Indeed, and quite illegal.


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...or the Israeli army will shoot you.
> 
> 
> 
> And your children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perhaps you shouldn't have your children in front of you when challenging Israel's border guards.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you shouldn't have a nine year-old child in the front seat of your car on the way to her doctor with no gunfight raging around her only a teen-aged sniper in an IDF observation tower at the end of the block who knew he could kill at will and shills like you would cover-up:

"It is equally tragic to read of nine-year-old Akaber, killed by Israeli gunfire to her head while riding in her uncle&#8217;s car to get medical stitches removed, and of the 29 other nine-year-olds killed by Israeli forces in the past decade, eight of them by Israeli gunfire to the head."

You might even want to mention that to one of AIPAC's favorite former congress-critters:

"She (Gabby Giffords) called a 2001 visit to Israel a turning point in her life (*Israeli forces killed 103 children that year, 31 of them shot in the head*) and wrote in 2006 (a year in which Israeli forces killed 665 Palestinians, 139 of them children, and Palestinians killed 23 Israelis, two of them children) that 'the United States must do everything possible to secure Israel&#8217;s long-term security.'

"Palestinian victims  killed first and in far greater numbers  seem to have been invisible to her."

Shot in the Head » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

*Think Gabby'll get it now?*


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're just being an obtuse little girl again, Princess.
> Borders of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> *From your link, Golda:*
> 
> "Israel's borders are the borders of the State of Israel. The borders have changed from time to time with developments in Israel's military and diplomatic situation. It borders Lebanon in the north, Syria in the northeast, Jordan *and the West Bank* in the east..."
> 
> Where's the line in the sand separating Israel and the West Bank, somewhere within 60% of Area C?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's borders are defined as the positions of IDF tanks at any given time. Flexible.
Click to expand...

Not since 1949, Adolph.
Your side lost...remember?


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're just being an obtuse little girl again, Princess.
> Borders of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> *From your link, Golda:*
> 
> "Israel's borders are the borders of the State of Israel. The borders have changed from time to time with developments in Israel's military and diplomatic situation. It borders Lebanon in the north, Syria in the northeast, Jordan *and the West Bank* in the east..."
> 
> Where's the line in the sand separating Israel and the West Bank, somewhere within 60% of Area C?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> TinHorn insists Israel has no borders. That claim is patently false.
Click to expand...

PF's making the claim Israel has never formally declared its borders, apparently doing so complicates the process of stealing your neighbors' land and water. 

*Can you point out Israel's eastern border?*


----------



## Billo_Really

SAYIT said:


> Self-serving camel crap.


Sung to the tune of "King of the Road".

*Self-serving camel crap
Rooms to let IDF nap
No phone no pool no pets 
Until this Israeli occupation gets
Ah but, two hours of pushing broom 
Buys a eight by twelve four bit room
Palestinian life under Israeli goons 
King of the road

Air strikes on a midnight train 
Islamic terrorists the Israeli's claim
Old worn out propaganda blues
Not complete until we hate the joos
Israel is guilty the UN have found 
But US veto protects their ground
As Palestinian life just goes down
King of the road

I know every engineer on every train 
Are all targeted in Israeli games
And every handout in every town 
Best get your ass out before sundown


Self-serving camel crap
Rooms to let IDF nap
No phone no pool no pets 
Until this Israeli occupation gets
Ah but, two hours of pushing broom 
Buys a eight by twelve four bit room
Palestinian life under Israeli goons 
King of the road​*


----------



## georgephillip

loinboy said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self-serving camel crap.
> 
> 
> 
> Sung to the tune of "King of the Road".
> 
> *Self-serving camel crap
> Rooms to let IDF nap
> No phone no pool no pets
> Until this Israeli occupation gets
> Ah but, two hours of pushing broom
> Buys a eight by twelve four bit room
> Palestinian life under Israeli goons
> King of the road
> 
> Air strikes on a midnight train
> Islamic terrorists the Israeli's claim
> Old worn out propaganda blues
> Not complete until we hate the joos
> Israel is guilty the UN have found
> But US veto protects their ground
> As Palestinian life just goes down
> King of the road
> 
> I know every engineer on every train
> Are all targeted in Israeli games
> And every handout in every town
> Best get your ass out before sundown
> 
> 
> Self-serving camel crap
> Rooms to let IDF nap
> No phone no pool no pets
> Until this Israeli occupation gets
> Ah but, two hours of pushing broom
> Buys a eight by twelve four bit room
> Palestinian life under Israeli goons
> King of the road​*
Click to expand...

*Einstein is applauding.*

"*TO THE EDITORS OF THE NEW YORK TIMES*:

"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the 'Freedom Party' (Tnuat Haherut), *a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties.* 

"It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.

"The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. 

"Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin"s political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.

Albert Einstein's 1948 Letter to the New York Times


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *From your link, Golda:*
> 
> "Israel's borders are the borders of the State of Israel. The borders have changed from time to time with developments in Israel's military and diplomatic situation. It borders Lebanon in the north, Syria in the northeast, Jordan *and the West Bank* in the east..."
> 
> Where's the line in the sand separating Israel and the West Bank, somewhere within 60% of Area C?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TinHorn insists Israel has no borders. That claim is patently false.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> PF's making the claim Israel has never formally declared its borders, apparently doing so complicates the process of stealing your neighbors' land and water.
> 
> *Can you point out Israel's eastern border?*
Click to expand...


TBD. The WB is disputed turf


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> And your children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps you shouldn't have your children in front of you when challenging Israel's border guards.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps you shouldn't have a nine year-old child in the front seat of your car on the way to her doctor with no gunfight raging around her only a teen-aged sniper in an IDF observation tower at the end of the block who knew he could kill at will and shills like you would cover-up:
> 
> "It is equally tragic to read of nine-year-old Akaber, killed by Israeli gunfire to her head while riding in her uncle&#8217;s car to get medical stitches removed, and of the 29 other nine-year-olds killed by Israeli forces in the past decade, eight of them by Israeli gunfire to the head."
> 
> You might even want to mention that to one of AIPAC's favorite former congress-critters:
> 
> "She (Gabby Giffords) called a 2001 visit to Israel a turning point in her life (*Israeli forces killed 103 children that year, 31 of them shot in the head*) and wrote in 2006 (a year in which Israeli forces killed 665 Palestinians, 139 of them children, and Palestinians killed 23 Israelis, two of them children) that 'the United States must do everything possible to secure Israel&#8217;s long-term security.'
> 
> "Palestinian victims  killed first and in far greater numbers  seem to have been invisible to her."
> 
> Shot in the Head » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names
> 
> *Think Gabby'll get it now?*
Click to expand...

Philip's numbers come are like himself, fulla shit from IslamoNazi sites.


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self-serving camel crap.
> 
> 
> 
> Sung to the tune of "King of the Road".
> 
> *Self-serving camel crap
> Rooms to let IDF nap
> No phone no pool no pets
> Until this Israeli occupation gets
> Ah but, two hours of pushing broom
> Buys a eight by twelve four bit room
> Palestinian life under Israeli goons
> King of the road
> 
> Air strikes on a midnight train
> Islamic terrorists the Israeli's claim
> Old worn out propaganda blues
> Not complete until we hate the joos
> Israel is guilty the UN have found
> But US veto protects their ground
> As Palestinian life just goes down
> King of the road
> 
> I know every engineer on every train
> Are all targeted in Israeli games
> And every handout in every town
> Best get your ass out before sundown
> 
> 
> Self-serving camel crap
> Rooms to let IDF nap
> No phone no pool no pets
> Until this Israeli occupation gets
> Ah but, two hours of pushing broom
> Buys a eight by twelve four bit room
> Palestinian life under Israeli goons
> King of the road​*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Einstein is applauding.*
> 
> "*TO THE EDITORS OF THE NEW YORK TIMES*:
> 
> "Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the 'Freedom Party' (Tnuat Haherut), *a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties.*
> 
> "It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.
> 
> "The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States.
> 
> "Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin"s political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.
> 
> Albert Einstein's 1948 Letter to the New York Times
Click to expand...

Sure thing, that's why he considered running for prime minister of Israel.


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> TinHorn insists Israel has no borders. That claim is patently false.
> 
> 
> 
> PF's making the claim Israel has never formally declared its borders, apparently doing so complicates the process of stealing your neighbors' land and water.
> 
> *Can you point out Israel's eastern border?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> TBD. The WB is disputed turf
Click to expand...

Not according to IL (International Law); the WB is under BO (Belligerent Occupation)
The only dispute is whether Israel becomes a democratic state or an apartheid one.
Are you ready for free elections open to all adults living between the Mediterranean and the Jordan who are subject to all Israeli civil or military laws?


----------



## irosie91

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> PF's making the claim Israel has never formally declared its borders, apparently doing so complicates the process of stealing your neighbors' land and water.
> 
> *Can you point out Israel's eastern border?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TBD. The WB is disputed turf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not according to IL (International Law); the WB is under BO (Belligerent Occupation)
> The only dispute is whether Israel becomes a democratic state or an apartheid one.
> Are you ready for free elections open to all adults living between the Mediterranean and the Jordan who are subject to all Israeli civil or military laws?
Click to expand...


There is no law in the world that demands a country put its right to existence to a VOTE   that includes an enemy country.      the gazan and west bank entities have not yet surrendered     If Japan had not surrendered---the US would still be occupying------try again ----you lost this one


----------



## georgephillip

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sung to the tune of "King of the Road".
> 
> *Self-serving camel crap
> Rooms to let IDF nap
> No phone no pool no pets
> Until this Israeli occupation gets
> Ah but, two hours of pushing broom
> Buys a eight by twelve four bit room
> Palestinian life under Israeli goons
> King of the road
> 
> Air strikes on a midnight train
> Islamic terrorists the Israeli's claim
> Old worn out propaganda blues
> Not complete until we hate the joos
> Israel is guilty the UN have found
> But US veto protects their ground
> As Palestinian life just goes down
> King of the road
> 
> I know every engineer on every train
> Are all targeted in Israeli games
> And every handout in every town
> Best get your ass out before sundown
> 
> 
> Self-serving camel crap
> Rooms to let IDF nap
> No phone no pool no pets
> Until this Israeli occupation gets
> Ah but, two hours of pushing broom
> Buys a eight by twelve four bit room
> Palestinian life under Israeli goons
> King of the road​*
> 
> 
> 
> *Einstein is applauding.*
> 
> "*TO THE EDITORS OF THE NEW YORK TIMES*:
> 
> "Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the 'Freedom Party' (Tnuat Haherut), *a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties.*
> 
> "It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.
> 
> "The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States.
> 
> "Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin"s political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.
> 
> Albert Einstein's 1948 Letter to the New York Times
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure thing, that's why he considered running for prime minister of Israel.
Click to expand...

*Not on the Herut platform:*

"Objection to IDF withdrawal and negotiations with Arab states was the (Herut) party's main platform in Israel's first elections. The party vigorously opposed the ceasefire agreements with the Arab states, both before and after the election. 

"Herut differentiated itself by *refusing to recognise the legitimacy of the Kingdom of Jordan* after the armistice, and frequently used the slogan '*To the banks of the Jordan Rive*r' in claiming Israel's right to the whole of Eretz Israel/Palestine. According to Joseph Heller, Herut was a *one-issue party intent on expanding Israel's borders*."

Do you claim "Israel's right to the whole of Eretz Israel/Palestine?"

Herut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## georgephillip

irosie91 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> TBD. The WB is disputed turf
> 
> 
> 
> Not according to IL (International Law); the WB is under BO (Belligerent Occupation)
> The only dispute is whether Israel becomes a democratic state or an apartheid one.
> Are you ready for free elections open to all adults living between the Mediterranean and the Jordan who are subject to all Israeli civil or military laws?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no law in the world that demands a country put its right to existence to a VOTE   that includes an enemy country.      the gazan and west bank entities have not yet surrendered     If Japan had not surrendered---the US would still be occupying------try again ----you lost this one
Click to expand...

What "enemy country" are you hasbar-babbling about?
I thought the country called "Palestine" never existed?
There is no legal or moral right in this world for a Jewish state to exist.
If you're afraid of free elections, consult the biography of FW deKlerk for your future. 

A minority of Jews created this problem in 1948 when they inflicted their religion on the majority of Palestinians.

Ready for payback?


----------



## irosie91

There are a far far far   higher number of muslims in the world who demand the annhilation of israel ----than there are jews in the world who seek to destroy Jordan     In fact there even in terms of PERCENTAGES--as opposed to absolute numbers     A FAR HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF MUSLIMS SUPPORT THE ANNHILATION OF ISRAEL   than the percentage of jews who advocate the destruction of Israel--------the difference in percentages is ENORMOUS.   If the muslims of the world were asked   "would the destruction of israel be a good thing" -------I am confident that more than 98% would vote YES         If the jews of the world were asked  "would the destruction of jordan be a good thing"    I am confident that more than 98% of the jews of the world would answer   "are you nuts?"


----------



## georgephillip

Assuming your percentages are accurate, the Jews currently possess the nuclear firepower to actually exterminate 90% of Muslims in the Middle East. A far higher percentage of Muslims advocate the destruction of Israel because, unlike media in the US, the Muslims are routinely treated to scenes of IDF destruction of Muslim civilians' homes and lives. If painful compromises for both sides are not found and implemented, the inevitable destruction will be mutual and endless.


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> There are a far far far   higher number of muslims in the world who demand the annhilation of israel ----than there are jews in the world who seek to destroy Jordan     In fact there even in terms of PERCENTAGES--as opposed to absolute numbers     A FAR HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF MUSLIMS SUPPORT THE ANNHILATION OF ISRAEL   than the percentage of jews who advocate the destruction of Israel--------the difference in percentages is ENORMOUS.   If the muslims of the world were asked   "would the destruction of israel be a good thing" -------I am confident that more than 98% would vote YES         If the jews of the world were asked  "would the destruction of jordan be a good thing"    I am confident that more than 98% of the jews of the world would answer   "are you nuts?"



There is a major difference Jordan was not created by kicking out the natives and replacing them with foreign settlers.


----------



## irosie91

georgephillip said:


> Assuming your percentages are accurate, the Jews currently possess the nuclear firepower to actually exterminate 90% of Muslims in the Middle East. A far higher percentage of Muslims advocate the destruction of Israel because, unlike media in the US, the Muslims are routinely treated to scenes of IDF destruction of Muslim civilians' homes and lives. If painful compromises for both sides are not found and implemented, the inevitable destruction will be mutual and endless.




    you are quite a joke   georgie.   I have been acquainted with LOTS OF MUSLIMS     mostly NOT PALESTINIANS    ------and, in fact----even before the  1967 war.     Muslims back then advocated the destruction of israel just as much as they do today.    It has nothing to do with your myth of  DAILY DESTRUCTION OF HOMES or LIVES.   One of the phenomena I noted way back then was------the people MOST FERVENT ABOUT DESTROYING ISRAEL and the EVILS OF JEWS  -----were from lands that had no jews.    Its a LEARNED THING    georgie---------they grow up with it          its taught in the mosques and in the schools.    There have been times in my life that I was the first jew a muslim landing in the USA ever met.     ------but they KNEW ALL ABOUT ISRAEL AND JUDAISM AND THE "FACT"  THAT ISRAEL HAD TO BE DESTROYED.      I had interesting interaction.    Muslims from foreign lands often LOGICALLY assumed me to be christian------and so spoke to me as a muslim to a christian     If you want to know what muslims think of jews------let that muslim think you are a christian.    If you want to know what muslims think of christians----let the muslim think you are a jew.      Depending on the place that the muslim was born-----you might hear something about how disgusting hindus are no matter what you claim to be


----------



## Billo_Really

irosie91 said:


> you are quite a joke   georgie.   I have been acquainted with LOTS OF MUSLIMS     mostly NOT PALESTINIANS    ------and, in fact----even before the  1967 war.     Muslims back then advocated the destruction of israel just as much as they do today.    It has nothing to do with your myth of  DAILY DESTRUCTION OF HOMES or LIVES.   One of the phenomena I noted way back then was------the people MOST FERVENT ABOUT DESTROYING ISRAEL and the EVILS OF JEWS  -----were from lands that had no jews.    Its a LEARNED THING    georgie---------they grow up with it          its taught in the mosques and in the schools.    There have been times in my life that I was the first jew a muslim landing in the USA ever met.     ------but they KNEW ALL ABOUT ISRAEL AND JUDAISM AND THE "FACT"  THAT ISRAEL HAD TO BE DESTROYED.      I had interesting interaction.    Muslims from foreign lands often LOGICALLY assumed me to be christian------and so spoke to me as a muslim to a christian     If you want to know what muslims think of jews------let that muslim think you are a christian.    If you want to know what muslims think of christians----let the muslim think you are a jew.      Depending on the place that the muslim was born-----you might hear something about how disgusting hindus are no matter what you claim to be


That's just bullshit Israeli propaganda.  Many times the Palestinian's have persued non-violent means to bring an end to hostilities, but in every case, the Israeli's would not reciprocate.  So in light of the way the Israeli's treat the Palestinian's, rocket attacks are the reasonable response.

The only reason you spew this "that's how they're raised" bullshit, is because you're too big of a coward to be responsible for your own actions.


----------



## georgephillip

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are a far far far   higher number of muslims in the world who demand the annhilation of israel ----than there are jews in the world who seek to destroy Jordan     In fact there even in terms of PERCENTAGES--as opposed to absolute numbers     A FAR HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF MUSLIMS SUPPORT THE ANNHILATION OF ISRAEL   than the percentage of jews who advocate the destruction of Israel--------the difference in percentages is ENORMOUS.   If the muslims of the world were asked   "would the destruction of israel be a good thing" -------I am confident that more than 98% would vote YES         If the jews of the world were asked  "would the destruction of jordan be a good thing"    I am confident that more than 98% of the jews of the world would answer   "are you nuts?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a major difference Jordan was not created by kicking out the natives and replacing them with foreign settlers.
Click to expand...

There does seem to be an "original sin" aspect to the Jewish state's inception...

"Objection to IDF withdrawal and negotiations with Arab states was the party's main platform in Israel's first elections. The party vigorously opposed the ceasefire agreements with the Arab states, both before and after the election. Herut differentiated itself by refusing to recognise the legitimacy of the Kingdom of Jordan after the armistice, and frequently used the slogan '*To the banks of the Jordan River*' in claiming Israel's right to the whole of Eretz Israel/Palestine. According to Joseph Heller, Herut was a one-issue party intent on expanding Israel's borders."

Herut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The latest attempt at annexing Area C should prove to everyone how successive generations of Israeli Jews have lied to the world about their commitment to the "peace process." All along the goal has been for a Jewish minority to control all the land between the Mediterranean and the Jordan.

'Think it won't get worse when Mitt moves into the White House?


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are a far far far   higher number of muslims in the world who demand the annhilation of israel ----than there are jews in the world who seek to destroy Jordan     In fact there even in terms of PERCENTAGES--as opposed to absolute numbers     A FAR HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF MUSLIMS SUPPORT THE ANNHILATION OF ISRAEL   than the percentage of jews who advocate the destruction of Israel--------the difference in percentages is ENORMOUS.   If the muslims of the world were asked   "would the destruction of israel be a good thing" -------I am confident that more than 98% would vote YES         If the jews of the world were asked  "would the destruction of jordan be a good thing"    I am confident that more than 98% of the jews of the world would answer   "are you nuts?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a major difference Jordan was not created by kicking out the natives and replacing them with foreign settlers.
Click to expand...



You should learn a bit of  history   TINNY      as to "KICKING OUT THE NATIVES"    you are describing just about every country now called a  "MUSLIM COUNTRY"  including Saudi arabia-----and even  IRAN        Israel/palestine was never ethnically cleansed by jews to any extent that even approaches that of just about EVERY COUNTRY today called   a  "MUSLIM COUNTRY"  was ethnically cleansed by muslims.     In fact the population of 
Israel is   about 50%  made up of people  ETHNICALLY cleansed out of "muslim countries"


Of the countries from which jews were ethnically cleansed----ALL retained a far less PERCENTAGE of their jewish populations than  Israel retained of its arab population   -----now try to learn the definitions of words like   "genocide,   ethnic cleansing,  and  "kicking out"      I once bought a house that had been condemned and UNOWNED for years.    It contained squatters       I asked them to leave within four weeks-------they did.    Did I commit genocide or ethnic cleansing or  KICKING OUT?     Jews came to palestine in the early  1800s    because the OTTOMANS DECIDED TO ALLOW JEWS TO OWN LAND.    When jews bought land------that was called   STEALING MUSLIM LAND    by jihadists like you and it still is      Keep in mind-----shariah law does not actually allow non muslims to OWN LAND    see?   I understand your depraved   POV       The Ottomans  (turks)  have been paying for their SIN with   hatred from their muslim brethern for two centuries.    Erdogan DEPENDS ON THAT HATRED FOR HIS POWER-----he is going to fix it up for the honor of SHARIAH    and to attain the LOVE of the UMMAH  and  the love of the islamicists in Turkey


----------



## georgephillip

irosie91 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming your percentages are accurate, the Jews currently possess the nuclear firepower to actually exterminate 90% of Muslims in the Middle East. A far higher percentage of Muslims advocate the destruction of Israel because, unlike media in the US, the Muslims are routinely treated to scenes of IDF destruction of Muslim civilians' homes and lives. If painful compromises for both sides are not found and implemented, the inevitable destruction will be mutual and endless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you are quite a joke   georgie.   I have been acquainted with LOTS OF MUSLIMS     mostly NOT PALESTINIANS    ------and, in fact----even before the  1967 war.     Muslims back then advocated the destruction of israel just as much as they do today.    It has nothing to do with your myth of  DAILY DESTRUCTION OF HOMES or LIVES.   One of the phenomena I noted way back then was------the people MOST FERVENT ABOUT DESTROYING ISRAEL and the EVILS OF JEWS  -----were from lands that had no jews.    Its a LEARNED THING    georgie---------they grow up with it          its taught in the mosques and in the schools.    There have been times in my life that I was the first jew a muslim landing in the USA ever met.     ------but they KNEW ALL ABOUT ISRAEL AND JUDAISM AND THE "FACT"  THAT ISRAEL HAD TO BE DESTROYED.      I had interesting interaction.    Muslims from foreign lands often LOGICALLY assumed me to be christian------and so spoke to me as a muslim to a christian     If you want to know what muslims think of jews------let that muslim think you are a christian.    If you want to know what muslims think of christians----let the muslim think you are a jew.      Depending on the place that the muslim was born-----you might hear something about how disgusting hindus are no matter what you claim to be
Click to expand...

You're ALMOST riveting, Rosie.
 In terms of absolute numbers how many Muslims have you allegedly spoken to?
What percentage told you they sought the destruction of Israel?
Does hasbara pay you by the syllable or by the lie?
Will you be around after the US election?
Sure hope so...you're a HOOT.


----------



## Billo_Really

irosie91 said:


> You should learn a bit of  history   TINNY      as to "KICKING OUT THE NATIVES"    you are describing just about every country now called a  "MUSLIM COUNTRY"  including Saudi arabia-----and even  IRAN        Israel/palestine was never ethnically cleansed by jews to any extent that even approaches that of just about EVERY COUNTRY today called   a  "MUSLIM COUNTRY"  was ethnically cleansed by muslims.     In fact the population of
> Israel is   about 50%  made up of people  ETHNICALLY cleansed out of "muslim countries"
> 
> 
> Of the countries from which jews were ethnically cleansed----ALL retained a far less PERCENTAGE of their jewish populations than  Israel retained of its arab population   -----now try to learn the definitions of words like   "genocide,   ethnic cleansing,  and  "kicking out"      I once bought a house that had been condemned and UNOWNED for years.    It contained squatters       I asked them to leave within four weeks-------they did.    Did I commit genocide or ethnic cleansing or  KICKING OUT?     Jews came to palestine in the early  1800s    because the OTTOMANS DECIDED TO ALLOW JEWS TO OWN LAND.    When jews bought land------that was called   STEALING MUSLIM LAND    by jihadists like you and it still is      Keep in mind-----shariah law does not actually allow non muslims to OWN LAND    see?   I understand your depraved   POV       The Ottomans  (turks)  have been paying for their SIN with   hatred from their muslim brethern for two centuries.    Erdogan DEPENDS ON THAT HATRED FOR HIS POWER-----he is going to fix it up for the honor of SHARIAH    and to attain the LOVE of the UMMAH  and  the love of the islamicists in Turkey


Call it whatever you want, driving over 700,000 people from their homes by force, will have consequences.


----------



## irosie91

loinboy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should learn a bit of  history   TINNY      as to "KICKING OUT THE NATIVES"    you are describing just about every country now called a  "MUSLIM COUNTRY"  including Saudi arabia-----and even  IRAN        Israel/palestine was never ethnically cleansed by jews to any extent that even approaches that of just about EVERY COUNTRY today called   a  "MUSLIM COUNTRY"  was ethnically cleansed by muslims.     In fact the population of
> Israel is   about 50%  made up of people  ETHNICALLY cleansed out of "muslim countries"
> 
> 
> Of the countries from which jews were ethnically cleansed----ALL retained a far less PERCENTAGE of their jewish populations than  Israel retained of its arab population   -----now try to learn the definitions of words like   "genocide,   ethnic cleansing,  and  "kicking out"      I once bought a house that had been condemned and UNOWNED for years.    It contained squatters       I asked them to leave within four weeks-------they did.    Did I
> commit genocide or ethnic cleansing or  KICKING OUT?     Jews came to palestine in the early  1800s    because the OTTOMANS DECIDED TO ALLOW JEWS TO OWN LAND.    When jews bought land------that was called   STEALING MUSLIM LAND    by jihadists like you and it still is      Keep in mind-----shariah law does not actually allow non muslims to OWN LAND    see?   I understand your depraved   POV       The Ottomans  (turks)  have been paying for their SIN with   hatred from their muslim brethern for two centuries.
> Erdogan DEPENDS ON THAT HATRED FOR HIS POWER-----he is going to fix it up for the honor of SHARIAH    and to attain the LOVE of the UMMAH  and  the love of the islamicists in Turkey
> 
> 
> 
> Call it whatever you want, driving over 700,000 people from their homes by force, will have consequences.
Click to expand...




yes    everything has consequences      The fact that muslims have murdered hundreds of millions for the glory of their  "god"   will have consequences.    The fact that muslims consider rape of non muslim "enemies"  legal will have consequences in reference to their hundred of millions of victims       and the fact that approximately   600,000 arabs were displaced and more than a million jews displaced because of the conflict between jews and muslims in the middle east will have consequences     The ongoing massacres in Syria will have consequences too.      WHAT POINT ARE YOU STRUGGLING to make?


----------



## Billo_Really

irosie91 said:


> yes    everything has consequences      The fact that muslims have murdered hundreds of millions for the glory of their  "god"   will have consequences.    The fact that muslims consider rape of non muslim "enemies"  legal will have consequences in reference to their hundred of millions of victims       and the fact that approximately   600,000 arabs were displaced and more than a million jews displaced because of the conflict between jews and muslims in the middle east will have consequences     The ongoing massacres in Syria will have consequences too.      WHAT POINT ARE YOU STRUGGLING to make?


They weren't displaced.  They were driven from their homes by jewish terrorism.

It should also be noted, that none of the violence between muslims and jews in that area had occured, until the zionists showed up.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are a far far far   higher number of muslims in the world who demand the annhilation of israel ----than there are jews in the world who seek to destroy Jordan     In fact there even in terms of PERCENTAGES--as opposed to absolute numbers     A FAR HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF MUSLIMS SUPPORT THE ANNHILATION OF ISRAEL   than the percentage of jews who advocate the destruction of Israel--------the difference in percentages is ENORMOUS.   If the muslims of the world were asked   "would the destruction of israel be a good thing" -------I am confident that more than 98% would vote YES         If the jews of the world were asked  "would the destruction of jordan be a good thing"    I am confident that more than 98% of the jews of the world would answer   "are you nuts?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a major difference Jordan was not created by kicking out the natives and replacing them with foreign settlers.
Click to expand...

Natives?  That would be the Jews who can trace their roots and history back to Israel, and who maintained a presence there. Not a bunch of Arab Muslim savages who invaded, looted, murdered, and squatted everywhere they went.


----------



## sealadaigh

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are a far far far   higher number of muslims in the world who demand the annhilation of israel ----than there are jews in the world who seek to destroy Jordan     In fact there even in terms of PERCENTAGES--as opposed to absolute numbers     A FAR HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF MUSLIMS SUPPORT THE ANNHILATION OF ISRAEL   than the percentage of jews who advocate the destruction of Israel--------the difference in percentages is ENORMOUS.   If the muslims of the world were asked   "would the destruction of israel be a good thing" -------I am confident that more than 98% would vote YES         If the jews of the world were asked  "would the destruction of jordan be a good thing"    I am confident that more than 98% of the jews of the world would answer   "are you nuts?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a major difference Jordan was not created by kicking out the natives and replacing them with foreign settlers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Natives?  That would be the Jews who can trace their roots and history back to Israel, and who maintained a presence there. Not a bunch of Arab Muslim savages who invaded, looted, murdered, and squatted everywhere they went.
Click to expand...


i can trace their history back to northern iraq, y'all belong there if you want to go that route.

let me get this straight, and try to put this in general terms. you believe that a people or an ethnicity (or in this case, an organisation) have a right to arbitrarily pick some place and time in history, go to that place, even if it is milleniae later, and displace the people living there without consideraation or recompense?

that is what you are saying. now, if you sit down and look at it carefully (lord knows, you are incapable of that, but try anyway), you will find a correlation between saying what and saying "what hitler did to the jews was justified."

all i am saying to you is get real and come up with another story, or at least stop saying that "all we want to do is be treated equally" and say "all we want is what we deserve, to be treated especially."

ya know what. jewish people are going to have to clean up their act and present valid arguments or someday, this thing is going to come back and bite you in the ass bigtime, and you and others can scream "anti-semite" at me all you want but it is simply not true and the term falls on deaf ears anyway. 

you think people who tell you what you want to hear are your friends. i worked in perhaps what is now one of the diverse worlplaces in the world but when i started, the place was all lily white males. it employed, at the time, college students...college was a requirement...lily white males...institutional racism. they dropped the requirement and poor kids from  the streets started working there. the first were two black kids, happy to have a job, and one of them says to me one day "this is a great place to work. everyone is so fair and friendly." everyone wasn't. i said, "you should hear what they are saying behind your back  if you have a problem with management, come to me."

figure it out. the end.

p.s. i notice a lot of you are afraid to respond to my posts, and others. probably a good idea, but i hope you are paying attention to them at least and honing your defense skills. from the looks of it though, you aren't. all the "fuck you"s and merely asserting the same thing over and over again as a response makes you look desperate.


----------



## Roudy

reabhloideach said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a major difference Jordan was not created by kicking out the natives and replacing them with foreign settlers.
> 
> 
> 
> Natives?  That would be the Jews who can trace their roots and history back to Israel, and who maintained a presence there. Not a bunch of Arab Muslim savages who invaded, looted, murdered, and squatted everywhere they went.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i can trace their history back to northern iraq, y'all belong there if you want to go that route.
> 
> let me get this straight, and try to put this in general terms. you believe that a people or an ethnicity (or in this case, an organisation) have a right to arbitrarily pick some place and time in history, go to that place, even if it is milleniae later, and displace the people living there without consideraation or recompense?
> 
> that is what you are saying. now, if you sit down and look at it carefully (lord knows, you are incapable of that, but try anyway), you will find a correlation between saying what and saying "what hitler did to the jews was justified."
> 
> all i am saying to you is get real and come up with another story, or at least stop saying that "all we want to do is be treated equally" and say "all we want is what we deserve, to be treated especially."
> 
> ya know what. jewish people are going to have to clean up their act and present valid arguments or someday, this thing is going to come back and bite you in the ass bigtime, and you and others can scream "anti-semite" at me all you want but it is simply not true and the term falls on deaf ears anyway.
> 
> you think people who tell you what you want to hear are your friends. i worked in perhaps what is now one of the diverse worlplaces in the world but when i started, the place was all lily white males. it employed, at the time, college students...college was a requirement...lily white males...institutional racism. they dropped the requirement and poor kids from  the streets started working there. the first were two black kids, happy to have a job, and one of them says to me one day "this is a great place to work. everyone is so fair and friendly." everyone wasn't. i said, "you should hear what they are saying behind your back  if you have a problem with management, come to me."
> 
> figure it out. the end.
> 
> p.s. i notice a lot of you are afraid to respond to my posts, and others. probably a good idea, but i hope you are paying attention to them at least and honing your defense skills. from the looks of it though, you aren't. all the "fuck you"s and merely asserting the same thing over and over again as a response makes you look desperate.
Click to expand...

Did anybody understand what this fucking idiot just said? This is how it sounded:


----------



## Billo_Really

reabhloideach said:


> i can trace their history back to northern iraq, y'all belong there if you want to go that route.
> 
> let me get this straight, and try to put this in general terms. you believe that a people or an ethnicity (or in this case, an organisation) have a right to arbitrarily pick some place and time in history, go to that place, even if it is milleniae later, and displace the people living there without consideraation or recompense?
> 
> that is what you are saying. now, if you sit down and look at it carefully (lord knows, you are incapable of that, but try anyway), you will find a correlation between saying what and saying "what hitler did to the jews was justified."
> 
> all i am saying to you is get real and come up with another story, or at least stop saying that "all we want to do is be treated equally" and say "all we want is what we deserve, to be treated especially."
> 
> ya know what. jewish people are going to have to clean up their act and present valid arguments or someday, this thing is going to come back and bite you in the ass bigtime, and you and others can scream "anti-semite" at me all you want but it is simply not true and the term falls on deaf ears anyway.
> 
> you think people who tell you what you want to hear are your friends. i worked in perhaps what is now one of the diverse worlplaces in the world but when i started, the place was all lily white males. it employed, at the time, college students...college was a requirement...lily white males...institutional racism. they dropped the requirement and poor kids from  the streets started working there. the first were two black kids, happy to have a job, and one of them says to me one day "this is a great place to work. everyone is so fair and friendly." everyone wasn't. i said, "you should hear what they are saying behind your back  if you have a problem with management, come to me."
> 
> figure it out. the end.
> 
> p.s. i notice a lot of you are afraid to respond to my posts, and others. probably a good idea, but i hope you are paying attention to them at least and honing your defense skills. from the looks of it though, you aren't. all the "fuck you"s and merely asserting the same thing over and over again as a response makes you look desperate.


That was beautiful.  I couldn't of said it better myself.  That's hitting the nail on the head.  If they won't accept reality willingly, then sooner or later, reality will eventually be shoved down their god-damn throats.

The day will come when they cannot deny any longer their role in the problems they've caused.  It will be similar to when average German's refused to believe the Holocaust when first told about it.  And they continued to disbelieve it, until Eisenhower made them bury the dead. After that, they couldn't deny it any longer, even if they tried.  Israel will have their day of reckoning as well.  They are already considered by the world community as a pariah.  And I think that day would come a lot sooner if everybody would stop kissing their ass!


----------



## Roudy

loinboy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> i can trace their history back to northern iraq, y'all belong there if you want to go that route.
> 
> let me get this straight, and try to put this in general terms. you believe that a people or an ethnicity (or in this case, an organisation) have a right to arbitrarily pick some place and time in history, go to that place, even if it is milleniae later, and displace the people living there without consideraation or recompense?
> 
> that is what you are saying. now, if you sit down and look at it carefully (lord knows, you are incapable of that, but try anyway), you will find a correlation between saying what and saying "what hitler did to the jews was justified."
> 
> all i am saying to you is get real and come up with another story, or at least stop saying that "all we want to do is be treated equally" and say "all we want is what we deserve, to be treated especially."
> 
> ya know what. jewish people are going to have to clean up their act and present valid arguments or someday, this thing is going to come back and bite you in the ass bigtime, and you and others can scream "anti-semite" at me all you want but it is simply not true and the term falls on deaf ears anyway.
> 
> you think people who tell you what you want to hear are your friends. i worked in perhaps what is now one of the diverse worlplaces in the world but when i started, the place was all lily white males. it employed, at the time, college students...college was a requirement...lily white males...institutional racism. they dropped the requirement and poor kids from  the streets started working there. the first were two black kids, happy to have a job, and one of them says to me one day "this is a great place to work. everyone is so fair and friendly." everyone wasn't. i said, "you should hear what they are saying behind your back  if you have a problem with management, come to me."
> 
> figure it out. the end.
> 
> p.s. i notice a lot of you are afraid to respond to my posts, and others. probably a good idea, but i hope you are paying attention to them at least and honing your defense skills. from the looks of it though, you aren't. all the "fuck you"s and merely asserting the same thing over and over again as a response makes you look desperate.
> 
> 
> 
> That was beautiful.  I couldn't of said it better myself.  That's hitting the nail on the head.  If they won't accept reality willingly, then sooner or later, reality will eventually be shoved down their god-damn throats.
> 
> The day will come when they cannot deny any longer their role in the problems they've caused.  It will be similar to when average German's refused to believe the Holocaust when first told about it.  And they continued to disbelieve it, until Eisenhower made them bury the dead. After that, they couldn't deny it any longer, even if they tried.  Israel will have their day of reckoning as well.  They are already considered by the world community as a pariah.  And I think that day would come a lot sooner if everybody would stop kissing their ass!
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are a far far far   higher number of muslims in the world who demand the annhilation of israel ----than there are jews in the world who seek to destroy Jordan     In fact there even in terms of PERCENTAGES--as opposed to absolute numbers     A FAR HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF MUSLIMS SUPPORT THE ANNHILATION OF ISRAEL   than the percentage of jews who advocate the destruction of Israel--------the difference in percentages is ENORMOUS.   If the muslims of the world were asked   "would the destruction of israel be a good thing" -------I am confident that more than 98% would vote YES         If the jews of the world were asked  "would the destruction of jordan be a good thing"    I am confident that more than 98% of the jews of the world would answer   "are you nuts?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a major difference Jordan was not created by kicking out the natives and replacing them with foreign settlers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Natives?  That would be the Jews who can trace their roots and history back to Israel, and who maintained a presence there. Not a bunch of Arab Muslim savages who invaded, looted, murdered, and squatted everywhere they went.
Click to expand...


You say that some people cannot be considered natives because their ancestry does not go back far enough. How far back would you consider to be enough? What would be your cutoff date and why would you chose that date? How would you determine who would fail that test so that they could be excluded from the native population? What about the most recent immigrants (within the last hundred years or so) who have no ancestors from that area?

Let me know how that is going to work.


----------



## Lipush

loinboy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> you are quite a joke   georgie.   I have been acquainted with LOTS OF MUSLIMS     mostly NOT PALESTINIANS    ------and, in fact----even before the  1967 war.     Muslims back then advocated the destruction of israel just as much as they do today.    It has nothing to do with your myth of  DAILY DESTRUCTION OF HOMES or LIVES.   One of the phenomena I noted way back then was------the people MOST FERVENT ABOUT DESTROYING ISRAEL and the EVILS OF JEWS  -----were from lands that had no jews.    Its a LEARNED THING    georgie---------they grow up with it          its taught in the mosques and in the schools.    There have been times in my life that I was the first jew a muslim landing in the USA ever met.     ------but they KNEW ALL ABOUT ISRAEL AND JUDAISM AND THE "FACT"  THAT ISRAEL HAD TO BE DESTROYED.      I had interesting interaction.    Muslims from foreign lands often LOGICALLY assumed me to be christian------and so spoke to me as a muslim to a christian     If you want to know what muslims think of jews------let that muslim think you are a christian.    If you want to know what muslims think of christians----let the muslim think you are a jew.      Depending on the place that the muslim was born-----you might hear something about how disgusting hindus are no matter what you claim to be
> 
> 
> 
> That's just bullshit Israeli propaganda.  Many times the Palestinian's have persued non-violent means to bring an end to hostilities, but in every case, the Israeli's would not reciprocate.  So in light of the way the Israeli's treat the Palestinian's, rocket attacks are the reasonable response.
> 
> The only reason you spew this "that's how they're raised" bullshit, is because you're too big of a coward to be responsible for your own actions.
Click to expand...


"That's just bullshit Israeli propaganda.  Many times the Palestinian's have persued non-violent means to bring an end to hostilities,"

Can you bring a classic example? if you may.

"So in light of the way the Israeli's treat the Palestinian's, rocket attacks are the reasonable response."

So you say you're against attacking civilians. As long as those civilians are not Jews. In that case, attacking them is alright by you.


----------



## Lipush

loinboy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> i can trace their history back to northern iraq, y'all belong there if you want to go that route.
> 
> let me get this straight, and try to put this in general terms. you believe that a people or an ethnicity (or in this case, an organisation) have a right to arbitrarily pick some place and time in history, go to that place, even if it is milleniae later, and displace the people living there without consideraation or recompense?
> 
> that is what you are saying. now, if you sit down and look at it carefully (lord knows, you are incapable of that, but try anyway), you will find a correlation between saying what and saying "what hitler did to the jews was justified."
> 
> all i am saying to you is get real and come up with another story, or at least stop saying that "all we want to do is be treated equally" and say "all we want is what we deserve, to be treated especially."
> 
> ya know what. jewish people are going to have to clean up their act and present valid arguments or someday, this thing is going to come back and bite you in the ass bigtime, and you and others can scream "anti-semite" at me all you want but it is simply not true and the term falls on deaf ears anyway.
> 
> you think people who tell you what you want to hear are your friends. i worked in perhaps what is now one of the diverse worlplaces in the world but when i started, the place was all lily white males. it employed, at the time, college students...college was a requirement...lily white males...institutional racism. they dropped the requirement and poor kids from  the streets started working there. the first were two black kids, happy to have a job, and one of them says to me one day "this is a great place to work. everyone is so fair and friendly." everyone wasn't. i said, "you should hear what they are saying behind your back  if you have a problem with management, come to me."
> 
> figure it out. the end.
> 
> p.s. i notice a lot of you are afraid to respond to my posts, and others. probably a good idea, but i hope you are paying attention to them at least and honing your defense skills. from the looks of it though, you aren't. all the "fuck you"s and merely asserting the same thing over and over again as a response makes you look desperate.
> 
> 
> 
> That was beautiful.  I couldn't of said it better myself.  That's hitting the nail on the head.  If they won't accept reality willingly, then sooner or later, reality will eventually be shoved down their god-damn throats.
> 
> The day will come when they cannot deny any longer their role in the problems they've caused.  It will be similar to when average German's refused to believe the Holocaust when first told about it.  And they continued to disbelieve it, until Eisenhower made them bury the dead. After that, they couldn't deny it any longer, even if they tried.  Israel will have their day of reckoning as well.  They are already considered by the world community as a pariah.  And I think that day would come a lot sooner if everybody would stop kissing their ass!
Click to expand...


If you think the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the same as the Holocaust, you need to consider a few basic facts.

1. Those are the Arabs who say that the war Muslims have with Jews is not limited in time and place, "Kill them wherever you find them, they're the ones who bring down Allah's wrath". Jews have never ever called to destroy the Arabs.

2. The Arabs are constandly and undoubtly are trying to change historical facts. such as claiming that the Jews have never been in Israel, have no connection to the land whatsoever, and that the "wall of tears" is nothing but an excuse to try and to destroy Al Aqza mosque.

3. Even though they claim that Jerusalem is a holy city to them, the Islamic history AND their actions in field prove otherwise.

4. No Palestinian leader has ever called to make everlasting peace with Israel.

5. Most importantly, do remember that the people you Pro-Palestinians defend, gloat in time of your sorrow and call to fight and defeat the united states.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lipush said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> i can trace their history back to northern iraq, y'all belong there if you want to go that route.
> 
> let me get this straight, and try to put this in general terms. you believe that a people or an ethnicity (or in this case, an organisation) have a right to arbitrarily pick some place and time in history, go to that place, even if it is milleniae later, and displace the people living there without consideraation or recompense?
> 
> that is what you are saying. now, if you sit down and look at it carefully (lord knows, you are incapable of that, but try anyway), you will find a correlation between saying what and saying "what hitler did to the jews was justified."
> 
> all i am saying to you is get real and come up with another story, or at least stop saying that "all we want to do is be treated equally" and say "all we want is what we deserve, to be treated especially."
> 
> ya know what. jewish people are going to have to clean up their act and present valid arguments or someday, this thing is going to come back and bite you in the ass bigtime, and you and others can scream "anti-semite" at me all you want but it is simply not true and the term falls on deaf ears anyway.
> 
> you think people who tell you what you want to hear are your friends. i worked in perhaps what is now one of the diverse worlplaces in the world but when i started, the place was all lily white males. it employed, at the time, college students...college was a requirement...lily white males...institutional racism. they dropped the requirement and poor kids from  the streets started working there. the first were two black kids, happy to have a job, and one of them says to me one day "this is a great place to work. everyone is so fair and friendly." everyone wasn't. i said, "you should hear what they are saying behind your back  if you have a problem with management, come to me."
> 
> figure it out. the end.
> 
> p.s. i notice a lot of you are afraid to respond to my posts, and others. probably a good idea, but i hope you are paying attention to them at least and honing your defense skills. from the looks of it though, you aren't. all the "fuck you"s and merely asserting the same thing over and over again as a response makes you look desperate.
> 
> 
> 
> That was beautiful.  I couldn't of said it better myself.  That's hitting the nail on the head.  If they won't accept reality willingly, then sooner or later, reality will eventually be shoved down their god-damn throats.
> 
> The day will come when they cannot deny any longer their role in the problems they've caused.  It will be similar to when average German's refused to believe the Holocaust when first told about it.  And they continued to disbelieve it, until Eisenhower made them bury the dead. After that, they couldn't deny it any longer, even if they tried.  Israel will have their day of reckoning as well.  They are already considered by the world community as a pariah.  And I think that day would come a lot sooner if everybody would stop kissing their ass!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you think the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the same as the Holocaust, you need to consider a few basic facts.
> 
> 1. Those are the Arabs who say that the war Muslims have with Jews is not limited in time and place, "Kill them wherever you find them, they're the ones who bring down Allah's wrath". Jews have never ever called to destroy the Arabs.
> 
> 2. The Arabs are constandly and undoubtly are trying to change historical facts. such as claiming that the Jews have never been in Israel, have no connection to the land whatsoever, and that the "wall of tears" is nothing but an excuse to try and to destroy Al Aqza mosque.
> 
> 3. Even though they claim that Jerusalem is a holy city to them, the Islamic history AND their actions in field prove otherwise.
> 
> 4. No Palestinian leader has ever called to make everlasting peace with Israel.
> 
> 5. Most importantly, do remember that the people you Pro-Palestinians defend, gloat in time of your sorrow and call to fight and defeat the united states.
Click to expand...


The Palestinians are always seeking peace based on international law.

Israel will have no part of that.


----------



## Lipush

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> That was beautiful.  I couldn't of said it better myself.  That's hitting the nail on the head.  If they won't accept reality willingly, then sooner or later, reality will eventually be shoved down their god-damn throats.
> 
> The day will come when they cannot deny any longer their role in the problems they've caused.  It will be similar to when average German's refused to believe the Holocaust when first told about it.  And they continued to disbelieve it, until Eisenhower made them bury the dead. After that, they couldn't deny it any longer, even if they tried.  Israel will have their day of reckoning as well.  They are already considered by the world community as a pariah.  And I think that day would come a lot sooner if everybody would stop kissing their ass!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you think the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the same as the Holocaust, you need to consider a few basic facts.
> 
> 1. Those are the Arabs who say that the war Muslims have with Jews is not limited in time and place, "Kill them wherever you find them, they're the ones who bring down Allah's wrath". Jews have never ever called to destroy the Arabs.
> 
> 2. The Arabs are constandly and undoubtly are trying to change historical facts. such as claiming that the Jews have never been in Israel, have no connection to the land whatsoever, and that the "wall of tears" is nothing but an excuse to try and to destroy Al Aqza mosque.
> 
> 3. Even though they claim that Jerusalem is a holy city to them, the Islamic history AND their actions in field prove otherwise.
> 
> 4. No Palestinian leader has ever called to make everlasting peace with Israel.
> 
> 5. Most importantly, do remember that the people you Pro-Palestinians defend, gloat in time of your sorrow and call to fight and defeat the united states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are always seeking peace based on international law.
> 
> Israel will have no part of that.
Click to expand...


I will ask you the same I asked Loinboy. Give me an example of ONE thing the Palstinians did to solve the issue peacefully in a way that won't harm the other side.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lipush said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you think the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the same as the Holocaust, you need to consider a few basic facts.
> 
> 1. Those are the Arabs who say that the war Muslims have with Jews is not limited in time and place, "Kill them wherever you find them, they're the ones who bring down Allah's wrath". Jews have never ever called to destroy the Arabs.
> 
> 2. The Arabs are constandly and undoubtly are trying to change historical facts. such as claiming that the Jews have never been in Israel, have no connection to the land whatsoever, and that the "wall of tears" is nothing but an excuse to try and to destroy Al Aqza mosque.
> 
> 3. Even though they claim that Jerusalem is a holy city to them, the Islamic history AND their actions in field prove otherwise.
> 
> 4. No Palestinian leader has ever called to make everlasting peace with Israel.
> 
> 5. Most importantly, do remember that the people you Pro-Palestinians defend, gloat in time of your sorrow and call to fight and defeat the united states.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are always seeking peace based on international law.
> 
> Israel will have no part of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I will ask you the same I asked Loinboy. Give me an example of ONE thing the Palstinians did to solve the issue peacefully in a way that won't harm the other side.
Click to expand...


Peace based on international law would be fair to both sides. Israel always wants a one sided peace.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> That was beautiful.  I couldn't of said it better myself.  That's hitting the nail on the head.  If they won't accept reality willingly, then sooner or later, reality will eventually be shoved down their god-damn throats.
> 
> The day will come when they cannot deny any longer their role in the problems they've caused.  It will be similar to when average German's refused to believe the Holocaust when first told about it.  And they continued to disbelieve it, until Eisenhower made them bury the dead. After that, they couldn't deny it any longer, even if they tried.  Israel will have their day of reckoning as well.  They are already considered by the world community as a pariah.  And I think that day would come a lot sooner if everybody would stop kissing their ass!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you think the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the same as the Holocaust, you need to consider a few basic facts.
> 
> 1. Those are the Arabs who say that the war Muslims have with Jews is not limited in time and place, "Kill them wherever you find them, they're the ones who bring down Allah's wrath". Jews have never ever called to destroy the Arabs.
> 
> 2. The Arabs are constandly and undoubtly are trying to change historical facts. such as claiming that the Jews have never been in Israel, have no connection to the land whatsoever, and that the "wall of tears" is nothing but an excuse to try and to destroy Al Aqza mosque.
> 
> 3. Even though they claim that Jerusalem is a holy city to them, the Islamic history AND their actions in field prove otherwise.
> 
> 4. No Palestinian leader has ever called to make everlasting peace with Israel.
> 
> 5. Most importantly, do remember that the people you Pro-Palestinians defend, gloat in time of your sorrow and call to fight and defeat the united states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are always seeking peace based on international law.
> 
> Israel will have no part of that.
Click to expand...


What parts of the Hamas charter calling for the destruction of Israel are based on International law?

Is seeking peace based upon genocide really in the spirit of international law?

Are you aware of the death cult mentality afflicting pal arabs?

_We love death, you love life_  That's a prescription for a maladjusted personality.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you think the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the same as the Holocaust, you need to consider a few basic facts.
> 
> 1. Those are the Arabs who say that the war Muslims have with Jews is not limited in time and place, "Kill them wherever you find them, they're the ones who bring down Allah's wrath". Jews have never ever called to destroy the Arabs.
> 
> 2. The Arabs are constandly and undoubtly are trying to change historical facts. such as claiming that the Jews have never been in Israel, have no connection to the land whatsoever, and that the "wall of tears" is nothing but an excuse to try and to destroy Al Aqza mosque.
> 
> 3. Even though they claim that Jerusalem is a holy city to them, the Islamic history AND their actions in field prove otherwise.
> 
> 4. No Palestinian leader has ever called to make everlasting peace with Israel.
> 
> 5. Most importantly, do remember that the people you Pro-Palestinians defend, gloat in time of your sorrow and call to fight and defeat the united states.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are always seeking peace based on international law.
> 
> Israel will have no part of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What parts of the Hamas charter calling for the destruction of Israel are based on International law?
> 
> Is seeking peace based upon genocide really in the spirit of international law?
> 
> Are you aware of the death cult mentality afflicting pal arabs?
> 
> _We love death, you love life_  That's a prescription for a maladjusted personality.
Click to expand...


All propaganda aside, Hamas is in favor of enforcing international law.


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> If you think the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the same as the Holocaust, you need to consider a few basic facts.


There must be a lot of hay where you live, because you keep responding to these strawman arguments of your own creation.  If you want to know what I think, just ask me and I'll tell you.  If you think, I think, the current conflict is the same as the Holocaust, then you didn't understand the point I was making.

German's refused to believe what they were being told.  They didn't like what they were being told.  They could not fathom their government could be a part of something like that.  These were just average German citizens no different than you or me.  And certain events occured that forced them to finally accept the inevitable.  As a result, Germany became a better nation after it's citizens became aware of what happened.

Now we fast forward to today.  Although not on the same level historically as the Holocaust, Israeli citizens, such as yourself, refuse to believe what they're being told.  You refuse to accept the fact that your government could be doing something so inhuman and barbaric to an entire population of people and in violation of   international laws.  The entire world looks in disgust at what Israel is doing to the Palestinian's and now considers Israel, a pariah state.  You don't believe it now, but your time will come when you will have no choice but to accept the horror of what your government has done over the last 45 years.




Lipush said:


> 1. Those are the Arabs who say that the war Muslims have with Jews is not limited in time and place, "Kill them wherever you find them, they're the ones who bring down Allah's wrath". Jews have never ever called to destroy the Arabs.


Oh yes they have.  Go read the zionist writings of Menachem Begin back in the '40's where he talks about purging all "non-jews" from Palestine.  All muslims want is for their rights to be respected and to be treated equally, which is something Israel refuses to do.




Lipush said:


> 2. The Arabs are constandly and undoubtly are trying to change historical facts. such as claiming that the Jews have never been in Israel, have no connection to the land whatsoever, and that the "wall of tears" is nothing but an excuse to try and to destroy Al Aqza mosque.


I haven't seen any arabs saying that.  Everything I see them saying is that they have rights to this a land as well.  And those rights are not inferior to jewish rights.





Lipush said:


> 3. Even though they claim that Jerusalem is a holy city to them, the Islamic history AND their actions in field prove otherwise.


Bullshit!  What a fuckin' hypocrite you are.  You just got done complaining about alleged arab attempts to change history, then you go off and to that very thing yourself.  Talk about a double-standard.




Lipush said:


> 4. No Palestinian leader has ever called to make everlasting peace with Israel.


Oh yes they have.  And they have several times.  But it is all conditional upon Israel ending the occupation.  It is up to Israel to make the first move by ending this 45 year bullshit they've been doing that makes Palestinian life a daily hell.




Lipush said:


> 5. Most importantly, do remember that the people you Pro-Palestinians defend, gloat in time of your sorrow and call to fight and defeat the united states.


That's only because we give Israel the weapons and technology to continue their oppression in Gaza and the West Bank.  If we treated both sides equally, they wouldn't be gloating about our tragedies.

They have a right to self-determination.  It's about time you gave it to them


----------



## ForeverYoung436

loinboy said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you think the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the same as the Holocaust, you need to consider a few basic facts.
> 
> 
> 
> There must be a lot of hay where you live, because you keep responding to these strawman arguments of your own creation.  If you want to know what I think, just ask me and I'll tell you.  If you think, I think, the current conflict is the same as the Holocaust, then you didn't understand the point I was making.
> 
> German's refused to believe what they were being told.  They didn't like what they were being told.  They could not fathom their government could be a part of something like that.  These were just average German citizens no different than you or me.  And certain events occured that forced them to finally accept the inevitable.  As a result, Germany became a better nation after it's citizens became aware of what happened.
> 
> Now we fast forward to today.  Although not on the same level historically as the Holocaust, Israeli citizens, such as yourself, refuse to believe what they're being told.  You refuse to accept the fact that your government could be doing something so inhuman and barbaric to an entire population of people and in violation of   international laws.  The entire world looks in disgust at what Israel is doing to the Palestinian's and now considers Israel, a pariah state.  You don't believe it now, but your time will come when you will have no choice but to accept the horror of what your government has done over the last 45 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Those are the Arabs who say that the war Muslims have with Jews is not limited in time and place, "Kill them wherever you find them, they're the ones who bring down Allah's wrath". Jews have never ever called to destroy the Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yes they have.  Go read the zionist writings of Menachem Begin back in the '40's where he talks about purging all "non-jews" from Palestine.  All muslims want is for their rights to be respected and to be treated equally, which is something Israel refuses to do.
> 
> 
> I haven't seen any arabs saying that.  Everything I see them saying is that they have rights to this a land as well.  And those rights are not inferior to jewish rights.
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit!  What a fuckin' hypocrite you are.  You just got done complaining about alleged arab attempts to change history, then you go off and to that very thing yourself.  Talk about a double-standard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 4. No Palestinian leader has ever called to make everlasting peace with Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yes they have.  And they have several times.  But it is all conditional upon Israel ending the occupation.  It is up to Israel to make the first move by ending this 45 year bullshit they've been doing that makes Palestinian life a daily hell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Most importantly, do remember that the people you Pro-Palestinians defend, gloat in time of your sorrow and call to fight and defeat the united states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's only because we give Israel the weapons and technology to continue their oppression in Gaza and the West Bank.  If we treated both sides equally, they wouldn't be gloating about our tragedies.
> 
> They have a right to self-determination.  It's about time you gave it to them
Click to expand...


And do you, loinboy, guarantee that the Palestinians will not act like animals if they are given a state?  They acted like animals when Rabin and Peres first started giving up land in the West Bank.  A "daily hell" is a bit of an exxageration.  Have you ever been to the West Bank?  I have.  I spoke to a very nice Palestinian who had studied at Oxford.  Doesn't sound like hell to me.


----------



## Billo_Really

ForeverYoung436 said:


> And do you, loinboy, guarantee that the Palestinians will not act like animals if they are given a state?  They acted like animals when Rabin and Peres first started giving up land in the West Bank.  A "daily hell" is a bit of an exxageration.  Have you ever been to the West Bank?  I have.  I spoke to a very nice Palestinian who had studied at Oxford.  Doesn't sound like hell to me.


It doesn't matter what they'll do.  Israel needs to end the occupation, period.  That's the only option they have.  Israel has been in violation of international law for the last 45 years.  Their only coarse of action, is to stop breaking the law.

As far as Rabin and Peres, it's not their land to give.  It's their land to leave.  The only thing they need to do in regards to that land, is get the fuck off it.  

As for "daily hell", that's an understatement when you consider the over 500 checkpoints and roadblocks that restrict the freedom of movement of Palestinian's on their own property.


----------



## irosie91

loinboy said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And do you, loinboy, guarantee that the Palestinians will not act like animals if they are given a state?  They acted like animals when Rabin and Peres first started giving up land in the West Bank.  A "daily hell" is a bit of an exxageration.  Have you ever been to the West Bank?  I have.  I spoke to a very nice Palestinian who had studied at Oxford.  Doesn't sound like hell to me.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter what they'll do.  Israel needs to end the occupation, period.  That's the only option they have.  Israel has been in violation of international law for the last 45 years.  Their only coarse of action, is to stop breaking the law.
> 
> As far as Rabin and Peres, it's not their land to give.  It's their land to leave.  The only thing they need to do in regards to that land, is get the fuck off it.
> 
> As for "daily hell", that's an understatement when you consider the over 500 checkpoints and roadblocks that restrict the freedom of movement of Palestinian's on their own property.
Click to expand...




Consider what you are demanding----Israel and Gaza are technically   AT WAR     Gaza never surrendered after the  1967 war      If Israel were to simply completely and utterly disengage from Gaza-------one rocket launched from Gaza into Israel would be a LEGAL justification for Israel to carpet bomb  Gaza out of existence     That Israel is  ---sorta  "occupying"   Gaza-----is a far better deal for Gaza than if Israel were to disengage.    There is also the issue of  WATER AND ELECTRICITY      which is supplied to Gaza via Iraeli hookups       Of course egypt could hook its utilities up to Gaza-----how many days do you think Israel should allow before compltely cutting Gaza off?      There are lots of Gazans in Israeli hospitals -----where do you think Israel should dump them?


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And do you, loinboy, guarantee that the Palestinians will not act like animals if they are given a state?  They acted like animals when Rabin and Peres first started giving up land in the West Bank.  A "daily hell" is a bit of an exxageration.  Have you ever been to the West Bank?  I have.  I spoke to a very nice Palestinian who had studied at Oxford.  Doesn't sound like hell to me.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter what they'll do.  Israel needs to end the occupation, period.  That's the only option they have.  Israel has been in violation of international law for the last 45 years.  Their only coarse of action, is to stop breaking the law.
> 
> As far as Rabin and Peres, it's not their land to give.  It's their land to leave.  The only thing they need to do in regards to that land, is get the fuck off it.
> 
> As for "daily hell", that's an understatement when you consider the over 500 checkpoints and roadblocks that restrict the freedom of movement of Palestinian's on their own property.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Consider what you are demanding----Israel and Gaza are technically   AT WAR     Gaza never surrendered after the  1967 war      If Israel were to simply completely and utterly disengage from Gaza-------one rocket launched from Gaza into Israel would be a LEGAL justification for Israel to carpet bomb  Gaza out of existence     That Israel is  ---sorta  "occupying"   Gaza-----is a far better deal for Gaza than if Israel were to disengage.    There is also the issue of  WATER AND ELECTRICITY      which is supplied to Gaza via Iraeli hookups       Of course egypt could hook its utilities up to Gaza-----how many days do you think Israel should allow before compltely cutting Gaza off?      There are lots of Gazans in Israeli hospitals -----where do you think Israel should dump them?
Click to expand...

Hitler supplied his death camps with water and electricity too. So the Israelis are in good company.


----------



## irosie91

ima said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter what they'll do.  Israel needs to end the occupation, period.  That's the only option they have.  Israel has been in violation of international law for the last 45 years.  Their only coarse of action, is to stop breaking the law.
> 
> As far as Rabin and Peres, it's not their land to give.  It's their land to leave.  The only thing they need to do in regards to that land, is get the fuck off it.
> 
> As for "daily hell", that's an understatement when you consider the over 500 checkpoints and roadblocks that restrict the freedom of movement of Palestinian's on their own property.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Consider what you are demanding----Israel and Gaza are technically   AT WAR     Gaza never surrendered after the  1967 war      If Israel were to simply completely and utterly
> disengage from Gaza-------one rocket launched from Gaza into Israel would be a LEGAL justification for Israel to carpet bomb  Gaza out of existence     That Israel is  ---sorta  "occupying"   Gaza-----is a far better deal for Gaza than if Israel were to disengage.    There is also the issue of  WATER AND ELECTRICITY      which is supplied to Gaza via Iraeli hookups       Of course egypt could hook its utilities up to Gaza-----how many days do you think Israel should allow before compltely cutting Gaza off?      There are lots of Gazans in Israeli hospitals -----where do you think Israel should dump them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hitler supplied his death camps with water and electricity too. So the Israelis are in good company.
Click to expand...



your comment is typically vulgar ---------and very much consistent with your usual filth   -----The propaganda of baby throat slitters is remarkably consistent ----vulgar and idiotic      and mosque like      One of the comments that muslims are PROUD of repeating   about chrisitans is   "CHRISTIANS BELIEVE THAT THEIR 'god'  PISSED BEHIND THE BUSHES
excellent comparison  -----so MOSQUE LIKE.   Like you---muslims SMILE WITH PRIDE at their own brilliance and wit when they emit this sort of idiocy

anyone interested in experiencing a delighted muslim smiling with pride while spitting on the concept of the trinity------  just say you are a jew-----the muslim will come up with this sort of filth imagining it is making YOU HAPPY  and displays his own WIT


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Consider what you are demanding----Israel and Gaza are technically   AT WAR     Gaza never surrendered after the  1967 war      If Israel were to simply completely and utterly
> disengage from Gaza-------one rocket launched from Gaza into Israel would be a LEGAL justification for Israel to carpet bomb  Gaza out of existence     That Israel is  ---sorta  "occupying"   Gaza-----is a far better deal for Gaza than if Israel were to disengage.    There is also the issue of  WATER AND ELECTRICITY      which is supplied to Gaza via Iraeli hookups       Of course egypt could hook its utilities up to Gaza-----how many days do you think Israel should allow before compltely cutting Gaza off?      There are lots of Gazans in Israeli hospitals -----where do you think Israel should dump them?
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler supplied his death camps with water and electricity too. So the Israelis are in good company.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> your comment is typically vulgar ---------and very much consistent with your usual filth   -----The propaganda of baby throat slitters is remarkably consistent ----vulgar and idiotic      and mosque like      One of the comments that muslims are PROUD of repeating   about chrisitans is   "CHRISTIANS BELIEVE THAT THEIR 'god'  PISSED BEHIND THE BUSHES
> excellent comparison  -----so MOSQUE LIKE.   Like you---muslims SMILE WITH PRIDE at their own brilliance and wit when they emit this sort of idiocy
> 
> anyone interested in experiencing a delighted muslim smiling with pride while spitting on the concept of the trinity------  just say you are a jew-----the muslim will come up with this sort of filth imagining it is making YOU HAPPY  and displays his own WIT
Click to expand...


I'm not a muzzy. Sorry, you fail AGAIN. Better luck next time.


----------



## irosie91

ima said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler supplied his death camps with water and electricity too. So the Israelis are in good company.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> your comment is typically vulgar ---------and very much consistent with your usual filth   -----The propaganda of baby throat slitters is remarkably consistent ----vulgar and idiotic      and mosque like      One of the comments that muslims are PROUD of repeating   about chrisitans is   "CHRISTIANS BELIEVE THAT THEIR 'god'  PISSED BEHIND THE BUSHES
> excellent comparison  -----so MOSQUE LIKE.   Like you---muslims SMILE WITH PRIDE at their own brilliance and wit when they emit this sort of idiocy
> 
> anyone interested in experiencing a delighted muslim smiling with pride while spitting on the concept of the trinity------  just say you are a jew-----the muslim will come up with this sort of filth imagining it is making YOU HAPPY  and displays his own WIT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not a muzzy. Sorry, you fail AGAIN. Better luck next time.
Click to expand...



I did not say you are a  "muzzy"    I commented on the remarkable stability of baby throat slitters and their admirers   in their concept of  "wit"      My first encounter with the kind of wit you exhibit  came from  nazi literature I read as a child     I grew up in an area of the USA  that had been very BUNDIST during world war II   --------and the  "ADOLF LOVER"  literature was strewn all over town.     -----Long before  1967 ----I picked up a pamphlet that described  "CONCENTRATION CAMPS"    in a place called   "GAZA"    There were pictures of miserable ragged people collecting water in buckets from UN TRUCKS -----they were standing behind barbed wire fences -----the pictures were captioned  "ISRAEL DID THIS TO US"      I was a child and horrified that there were concentration camps in Israel.   ----I showed the pictures to my mother------"LOOK   ISRAEL PUT PEOPLE IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS"      She said   "Gaza is in egypt,   not Israel"    

see?     I have experience with your filth way back when I was nine years old.   At that time your literature actually impressed me.    Sometimes there was no one around to explain it to me


----------



## Roudy

ima said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter what they'll do.  Israel needs to end the occupation, period.  That's the only option they have.  Israel has been in violation of international law for the last 45 years.  Their only coarse of action, is to stop breaking the law.
> 
> As far as Rabin and Peres, it's not their land to give.  It's their land to leave.  The only thing they need to do in regards to that land, is get the fuck off it.
> 
> As for "daily hell", that's an understatement when you consider the over 500 checkpoints and roadblocks that restrict the freedom of movement of Palestinian's on their own property.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Consider what you are demanding----Israel and Gaza are technically   AT WAR     Gaza never surrendered after the  1967 war      If Israel were to simply completely and utterly disengage from Gaza-------one rocket launched from Gaza into Israel would be a LEGAL justification for Israel to carpet bomb  Gaza out of existence     That Israel is  ---sorta  "occupying"   Gaza-----is a far better deal for Gaza than if Israel were to disengage.    There is also the issue of  WATER AND ELECTRICITY      which is supplied to Gaza via Iraeli hookups       Of course egypt could hook its utilities up to Gaza-----how many days do you think Israel should allow before compltely cutting Gaza off?      There are lots of Gazans in Israeli hospitals -----where do you think Israel should dump them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hitler supplied his death camps with water and electricity too. So the Israelis are in good company.
Click to expand...

Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage

*

Amin Al-Husseini arrives in Rome, where he meets fascist leader Mussolini. The fascist dictator and invador of Ethiopia praises Husseini and his use of the Kur&#8217;an to propagate fascism. From Rome, Husseini declares Fatwa-Jihad [xv] against Britain. He creates the notion of Pan-Islamism, borrowed from Nazi Pan-Aryanism, with slogans of Muslim unity to further his cause.

Amin Al Husseini goes to Baghdad and participates in Pro-Nazi Coup in Iraq.

1941

European Jews Must Not Make It to Palestine [xvi] 
Amin Al Husseini Meets Hitler in Berlin During WWII

*Amin Al-Husseini [xvii] in Berlin sits with Adolf Hitler and is active in the decision to exterminate all Jews through the infamous Final Solution.

Hitler was content with deporting the Jews out of Germany.* Husseini perceived this as a threat to his stronghold in Palestine and pushed successfully for the extermination of the European Jews.**** Final Solution will claim six million Jewish lives, including one million children.

1943

Husseini calls SS Muslims

&#8220;Cream Of Islam&#8221;

Amin Al-Husseini creates the Hanzar [xviii] Division of Nazi Muslim Soldiers in Bosnia.* It becomes the largest division of Third Reich and participates actively in the genocide of Serbian, Gypsy, and Jewish populations.* Over three hundred thousand men, women and children murdered. Amin Al-Husseini refers to them as the &#8216;Cream of Islam&#8217;.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you think the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the same as the Holocaust, you need to consider a few basic facts.
> 
> 
> 
> There must be a lot of hay where you live, because you keep responding to these strawman arguments of your own creation.  If you want to know what I think, just ask me and I'll tell you.  If you think, I think, the current conflict is the same as the Holocaust, then you didn't understand the point I was making.
> 
> German's refused to believe what they were being told.  They didn't like what they were being told.  They could not fathom their government could be a part of something like that.  These were just average German citizens no different than you or me.  And certain events occured that forced them to finally accept the inevitable.  As a result, Germany became a better nation after it's citizens became aware of what happened.
> 
> Now we fast forward to today.  Although not on the same level historically as the Holocaust, Israeli citizens, such as yourself, refuse to believe what they're being told.  You refuse to accept the fact that your government could be doing something so inhuman and barbaric to an entire population of people and in violation of   international laws.  The entire world looks in disgust at what Israel is doing to the Palestinian's and now considers Israel, a pariah state.  You don't believe it now, but your time will come when you will have no choice but to accept the horror of what your government has done over the last 45 years.
> 
> 
> Oh yes they have.  Go read the zionist writings of Menachem Begin back in the '40's where he talks about purging all "non-jews" from Palestine.  All muslims want is for their rights to be respected and to be treated equally, which is something Israel refuses to do.
> 
> 
> I haven't seen any arabs saying that.  Everything I see them saying is that they have rights to this a land as well.  And those rights are not inferior to jewish rights.
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit!  What a fuckin' hypocrite you are.  You just got done complaining about alleged arab attempts to change history, then you go off and to that very thing yourself.  Talk about a double-standard.
> 
> 
> Oh yes they have.  And they have several times.  But it is all conditional upon Israel ending the occupation.  It is up to Israel to make the first move by ending this 45 year bullshit they've been doing that makes Palestinian life a daily hell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Most importantly, do remember that the people you Pro-Palestinians defend, gloat in time of your sorrow and call to fight and defeat the united states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's only because we give Israel the weapons and technology to continue their oppression in Gaza and the West Bank.  If we treated both sides equally, they wouldn't be gloating about our tragedies.
> 
> They have a right to self-determination.  It's about time you gave it to them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And do you, loinboy, guarantee that the Palestinians will not act like animals if they are given a state?  They acted like animals when Rabin and Peres first started giving up land in the West Bank.  A "daily hell" is a bit of an exxageration.  Have you ever been to the West Bank?  I have.  I spoke to a very nice Palestinian who had studied at Oxford.  Doesn't sound like hell to me.
Click to expand...


It is not about "a state." It is about rights.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are always seeking peace based on international law.
> 
> Israel will have no part of that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What parts of the Hamas charter calling for the destruction of Israel are based on International law?
> 
> Is seeking peace based upon genocide really in the spirit of international law?
> 
> Are you aware of the death cult mentality afflicting pal arabs?
> 
> _We love death, you love life_  That's a prescription for a maladjusted personality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All propaganda aside, Hamas is in favor of enforcing international law.
Click to expand...

You mean Israel and the world should ignore what they have said, done, and written in their constitution aka Charter about committing genocide on the Jews?  Ha ha ha!  You're better off waiting for Hell to freeze over.


----------



## Jos

irosie91 said:


> Consider what you are demanding----Israel and Gaza are technically   AT WAR     Gaza never surrendered after the  1967 war      If Israel were to simply completely and utterly disengage from Gaza-------one rocket launched from Gaza into Israel would be a LEGAL justification for Israel to carpet bomb  Gaza out of existence     That Israel is  ---sorta  "occupying"   Gaza-----is a far better deal for Gaza than if Israel were to disengage.    There is also the issue of  WATER AND ELECTRICITY      which is supplied to Gaza via Iraeli hookups       Of course egypt could hook its utilities up to Gaza-----how many days do you think Israel should allow before compltely cutting Gaza off?      There are lots of Gazans in Israeli hospitals -----where do you think Israel should dump them?



Gaza had it's own power station until.....Israel  bombed the only electrical power plant in the Gaza Strip
Operation Summer Rains (2006) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## irosie91

Tinny    your posting reveals that you know nothing about the history of germany over the past 100 years and nothing about the history of palestine over the past 100 years ------in fact you post as if you never met an actual german or an actual israeli or an actual arab palestinian 

    "germans did not believe what they were being told"     <<<what does that mean?   what were germans being told?      did you ever talk to a german who was around during world war II?

    "israelis do not believe what they are being told about  'palestinians' "  <<< what does that mean?.    Have you ever been to Israel?    THEY LIVE with arab palestinians over there      They certainly do know how those people live     Have you ever spoken to a real  'palestinian arab'?  

  you are utterly clueless-----you post as if all your information is derived from propaganda that shows up on the web        If you are an american-----you post as if you live somewhere in the hills -------and your whole link to the outside world is your  computer-----and  T.V.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There must be a lot of hay where you live, because you keep responding to these strawman arguments of your own creation.  If you want to know what I think, just ask me and I'll tell you.  If you think, I think, the current conflict is the same as the Holocaust, then you didn't understand the point I was making.
> 
> German's refused to believe what they were being told.  They didn't like what they were being told.  They could not fathom their government could be a part of something like that.  These were just average German citizens no different than you or me.  And certain events occured that forced them to finally accept the inevitable.  As a result, Germany became a better nation after it's citizens became aware of what happened.
> 
> Now we fast forward to today.  Although not on the same level historically as the Holocaust, Israeli citizens, such as yourself, refuse to believe what they're being told.  You refuse to accept the fact that your government could be doing something so inhuman and barbaric to an entire population of people and in violation of   international laws.  The entire world looks in disgust at what Israel is doing to the Palestinian's and now considers Israel, a pariah state.  You don't believe it now, but your time will come when you will have no choice but to accept the horror of what your government has done over the last 45 years.
> 
> 
> Oh yes they have.  Go read the zionist writings of Menachem Begin back in the '40's where he talks about purging all "non-jews" from Palestine.  All muslims want is for their rights to be respected and to be treated equally, which is something Israel refuses to do.
> 
> 
> I haven't seen any arabs saying that.  Everything I see them saying is that they have rights to this a land as well.  And those rights are not inferior to jewish rights.
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit!  What a fuckin' hypocrite you are.  You just got done complaining about alleged arab attempts to change history, then you go off and to that very thing yourself.  Talk about a double-standard.
> 
> 
> Oh yes they have.  And they have several times.  But it is all conditional upon Israel ending the occupation.  It is up to Israel to make the first move by ending this 45 year bullshit they've been doing that makes Palestinian life a daily hell.
> 
> 
> That's only because we give Israel the weapons and technology to continue their oppression in Gaza and the West Bank.  If we treated both sides equally, they wouldn't be gloating about our tragedies.
> 
> They have a right to self-determination.  It's about time you gave it to them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And do you, loinboy, guarantee that the Palestinians will not act like animals if they are given a state?  They acted like animals when Rabin and Peres first started giving up land in the West Bank.  A "daily hell" is a bit of an exxageration.  Have you ever been to the West Bank?  I have.  I spoke to a very nice Palestinian who had studied at Oxford.  Doesn't sound like hell to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is not about "a state." It is about rights.
Click to expand...

It's never been about a state nor has it been about rights. It's about religious based Muslim intolerance and hatred, and inability to accept a Jewish state, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.


----------



## Jos

Roudy said:


> Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage
> 
> Zionists also cut deals with Hitler
> 
> 
> 
> The Transfer Agreement: The Dramatic Story of the Pact Between the Third Reich and Jewish Palestine is a book written by author Edwin Black, documenting the agreement between Zionist Jews and Adolf Hitler to help create a Jewish state in Palestine, in return for an end of a global boycott of Nazi Germany that had threatened to bring it down in its first days of power.
> 
> 
> 
> The Transfer Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


----------



## Roudy

ima said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler supplied his death camps with water and electricity too. So the Israelis are in good company.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> your comment is typically vulgar ---------and very much consistent with your usual filth   -----The propaganda of baby throat slitters is remarkably consistent ----vulgar and idiotic      and mosque like      One of the comments that muslims are PROUD of repeating   about chrisitans is   "CHRISTIANS BELIEVE THAT THEIR 'god'  PISSED BEHIND THE BUSHES
> excellent comparison  -----so MOSQUE LIKE.   Like you---muslims SMILE WITH PRIDE at their own brilliance and wit when they emit this sort of idiocy
> 
> anyone interested in experiencing a delighted muslim smiling with pride while spitting on the concept of the trinity------  just say you are a jew-----the muslim will come up with this sort of filth imagining it is making YOU HAPPY  and displays his own WIT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not a muzzy. Sorry, you fail AGAIN. Better luck next time.
Click to expand...

Muzzy or ass kisser of IslamoNazis?  Is here a difference?  You probably have affiliations with some Islamic anti semetic assholes.  Who the fuck cares. They always recruit ignorant retards like yourself. It's nothing new.  They usually target prisons, convicts, murderers, and basically the lowest elements of society.


----------



## Roudy

Jos said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage
> 
> Zionists also cut deals with Hitler
> 
> 
> 
> The Transfer Agreement: The Dramatic Story of the Pact Between the Third Reich and Jewish Palestine is a book written by author Edwin Black, documenting the agreement between Zionist Jews and Adolf Hitler to help create a Jewish state in Palestine, in return for an end of a global boycott of Nazi Germany that had threatened to bring it down in its first days of power.
> 
> 
> 
> The Transfer Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Muslim Brotherhood established in Egypt in 1928 [vii] .* Mother organization for today&#8217;s Egyptian Islamic Jihad and Hamas [viii] .* The Muslim Brotherhood preaches Wahhabi [ix] Islam, which justifies violent means to rid the &#8216;Muslim world&#8217; of its non-Islamic element.* It envisions a Pan-Islamic Empire, where strict Islamic law rules over all.* Husseini finds his fit and becomes prominent member of Muslim Brotherhood.
> 
> 1929
> 
> Husseini organizes Hebron Massacre
> 
> Amin Al-Husseini organizes more riots in Palestine.** He spreads false rumors to further turn the local Muslims against the Jews.** Random murdering of Hebron Jews begins. Hebron Jewish community was over 2,000 years old.
> 
> Amin Al-Husseini is main organizer of riots. [xiii] * He organizes suicide squads against the local authorities.* Applies Nazi methodology of &#8220;systematic extermination&#8221; of any Arab suspected of less than total loyalty to Pan-Islamic vision of Muslim Brotherhood.*
> 
> Any &#8220;non-Islamic&#8221; element is a threat to his Pan-Islamic vision.
> 
> Many Muslim and Christian Palestinian intellectual leaders and clerics assassinated for protesting Husseini&#8217;s Islamic terror.
> 
> 1936-1938. Murdered by Husseini&#8217;s men:*
> 
> ** Sheikh Daoud Ansari ( Imam of Al Aqsa Mosque),* Sheikh Ali Nur el Khattib (Al Aqsa Mosque), Sheikh Nusbi Abdal Rahim (Council of Muslim Religious Court), Sheikh Abdul el Badoui (Acre, Palestine), Sheikh El Namouri (Hebron), Nasr El Din Nassr* (Mayor of Hebron).* Between Feb. 1937 and Nov 1938, Eleven (11) Mukhtars (community leaders) and their entire families slain by Amin al Husseini&#8217;s men.
> 
> The Palestine riots between 1936-1938 were financially sponsored by Nazi Germany [xiv] .
> 
> www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com
Click to expand...


----------



## ima

Roudy said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> your comment is typically vulgar ---------and very much consistent with your usual filth   -----The propaganda of baby throat slitters is remarkably consistent ----vulgar and idiotic      and mosque like      One of the comments that muslims are PROUD of repeating   about chrisitans is   "CHRISTIANS BELIEVE THAT THEIR 'god'  PISSED BEHIND THE BUSHES
> excellent comparison  -----so MOSQUE LIKE.   Like you---muslims SMILE WITH PRIDE at their own brilliance and wit when they emit this sort of idiocy
> 
> anyone interested in experiencing a delighted muslim smiling with pride while spitting on the concept of the trinity------  just say you are a jew-----the muslim will come up with this sort of filth imagining it is making YOU HAPPY  and displays his own WIT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a muzzy. Sorry, you fail AGAIN. Better luck next time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Muzzy or ass kisser of IslamoNazis?  Is here a difference?  You probably have affiliations with some Islamic anti semetic assholes.  Who the fuck cares. They always recruit ignorant retards like yourself. It's nothing new.  They usually target prisons, convicts, murderers, and basically the lowest elements of society.
Click to expand...


Why? Where you targeted?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And do you, loinboy, guarantee that the Palestinians will not act like animals if they are given a state?  They acted like animals when Rabin and Peres first started giving up land in the West Bank.  A "daily hell" is a bit of an exxageration.  Have you ever been to the West Bank?  I have.  I spoke to a very nice Palestinian who had studied at Oxford.  Doesn't sound like hell to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is not about "a state." It is about rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's never been about a state nor has it been about rights. It's about religious based Muslim intolerance and hatred, and inability to accept a Jewish state, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
Click to expand...


Your statement is incomplete. It should say:

...Muslim intolerance and hatred, and inability to accept* a Jewish state in Palestine*, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

There, that gives a more realistic perspective.


----------



## Roudy

Jos said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage
> 
> Zionists also cut deals with Hitler
> 
> 
> 
> The Transfer Agreement: The Dramatic Story of the Pact Between the Third Reich and Jewish Palestine is a book written by author Edwin Black, documenting the agreement between Zionist Jews and Adolf Hitler to help create a Jewish state in Palestine, in return for an end of a global boycott of Nazi Germany that had threatened to bring it down in its first days of power.
> 
> 
> 
> The Transfer Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *1943
> 
> *Prime Minister of Pan-Arab Government
> 
> Visits Nazi Death Camp with Head of SS H.Himmler
> 
> ****************
> 
> Amin Al Husseini Meets Chief Commander of Nazi SS: Heinrich Himmler
> 
> *Amin Al-Husseini is made Prime Minister of Pan-Arab Government by Nazi regime.* His headquarters are in Berlin.
> 
> 
> 
> He plans construction of concentration camp [xix] in Nablus (Palestine) to implement the* &#8220;final solution&#8221; in Palestine to exterminate the Jews there, as an extension of Hitler&#8217;s plan.
> 
> Mufti becomes close friend of* Heinrich Himmler, Head of SS (Nazi Officers).* Amin Al-Husseini is given a private tour of Aushwitz death camp by Himmler, where he insists on seeing first-hand the murder of Europe&#8217;s Jews. [xx]
> 
> 
> Amin Al Husseini Coaching Muslim Nazi Soldier 1943. Muslim Troops.
> 
> Mufti Addresses** Bosnian Muslim Nazi Troops
> 
> 
> Amin Al Husseini Inspecting His Muslim Troops. 1943.
> 
> March 1, 1944. Amin Al-Husseini makes speech from Berlin addressing Muslim SS Nazi troops: "Kill Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, History and Religion.* This saves your honor. God is with you.&#8221; [xxi]
> 
> Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage
Click to expand...


----------



## Jos

Roudy said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage
> 
> Zionists also cut deals with Hitler
> 
> The Transfer Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Haavara (Transfer) Agreement was agreed to by the German government in 1933 to allow the Zionist movement, in the form of the Haavara company to transfer property from Germany to Palestine, for the sole purpose of encouraging Jewish emigration from Germany. The Haavara company operated under a similar plan as the earlier Hanotea company. The Haavara Company required immigrants to pay at least 1000 pounds sterling into the banking company. This money would then be used to buy German exports for import to Palestine.
> 
> The Haavara Agreement was thought among certain circles to be a possible way to rid the country of its supposed "Jewish problem." The head of the Middle Eastern division of the foreign ministry, Werner Otto von Hentig, supported the policy of concentrating Jews in Palestine. Von Hentig believed that if the Jewish population was concentrated in a single foreign entity, then foreign diplomatic policy and containment of the Jews would become easier.[4] Hitler's support of the Haavara Agreement varied throughout the thirties. Initially, Hitler criticized the agreement, but shortly reversed his opinion, and continued to support it, in the face of opposition, through 1939.[5]
> 
> After the invasion of Poland and the onset of World War II in 1939, the practical continuation of the Haavara agreement became impossible. In 1940, representatives of the underground Zionist group Lehi met with von Hentig *to propose direct military cooperation with the Nazis* for the continuation of the transfer of European Jews to Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haavara Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is not about "a state." It is about rights.
> 
> 
> 
> It's never been about a state nor has it been about rights. It's about religious based Muslim intolerance and hatred, and inability to accept a Jewish state, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your statement is incomplete. It should say:
> 
> ...Muslim intolerance and hatred, and inability to accept* a Jewish state in Palestine*, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
> 
> There, that gives a more realistic perspective.
Click to expand...

There ya go thanks for correcting me. So you admit what I said is true then. It has never been about Palestine, it has been about Muslim religious intolernce and hatred.


----------



## Roudy

Idiot, you compare Jews making a deal with Nazis to escape Nazi death camps as cooperation?  Fucking Moron!

** Muslim Brotherhood unites with Hitler&#8217;s Third Reich

"No Jews Allowed"

1933-1944

1933

Hitler Finds Arab Support [xi]

*Arab Nazi political groups spring up throughout Middle East:

******* .Young Egypt.* Led by Muslim Brotherhood member Abdul Gamal Nasser (future Egyptian President).* Young Egypt&#8217;s political slogan &#8220;One Folk, One Party, One Leader&#8221; is a direct translation from German of Nazi slogan.

******* .Social Nationalist Party in Syria.* Led by Anton Saada (known as the Syrian Fuhrer)

1936

Husseini Meets Hitler&#8217;s Banker

Francois Genoud [xii] , later known as the Swiss Banker of the Hitler&#8217;s Third Reich, travels to Palestine to meet Amin Al-Husseini for the first time.* Their relationship will continue well into the 1960&#8217;s.

www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's never been about a state nor has it been about rights. It's about religious based Muslim intolerance and hatred, and inability to accept a Jewish state, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your statement is incomplete. It should say:
> 
> ...Muslim intolerance and hatred, and inability to accept* a Jewish state in Palestine*, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
> 
> There, that gives a more realistic perspective.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There ya go thanks for correcting me. So you admit what I said is true then. It has never been about Palestine, it has been about Muslim religious intolernce and hatred.
Click to expand...


If the Jewish state was not in Palestine the Palestinians would have little concern.


----------



## Roudy

ima said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a muzzy. Sorry, you fail AGAIN. Better luck next time.
> 
> 
> 
> Muzzy or ass kisser of IslamoNazis?  Is here a difference?  You probably have affiliations with some Islamic anti semetic assholes.  Who the fuck cares. They always recruit ignorant retards like yourself. It's nothing new.  They usually target prisons, convicts, murderers, and basically the lowest elements of society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why? Where you targeted?
Click to expand...

You won't find too many Jews in prison. But garbage like you, you'll find plenty of.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your statement is incomplete. It should say:
> 
> ...Muslim intolerance and hatred, and inability to accept* a Jewish state in Palestine*, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
> 
> There, that gives a more realistic perspective.
> 
> 
> 
> There ya go thanks for correcting me. So you admit what I said is true then. It has never been about Palestine, it has been about Muslim religious intolernce and hatred.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the Jewish state was not in Palestine the Palestinians would have little concern.
Click to expand...

You just put your foot in your mouth. Thanks.


----------



## docmauser1

loinboy said:


> _Israel needs to end the occupation, period._


But what will palistanians do without occupation? It's their occupation!


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> _It is not about "a state." It is about rights._


Noone prevents them from thumping "rights" in their palistan, of course.


----------



## georgephillip

"The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."

Thump that. drivel.
When did the Jews decide the Fourth Geneva Convention doesn't apply to the "chosen people?"

Fourth Geneva Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Billo_Really

georgephillip said:


> "The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."
> 
> Thump that. drivel.
> When did the Jews decide the Fourth Geneva Convention doesn't apply to the "chosen people?"
> 
> Fourth Geneva Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


There ain't no way God would choose people like them.

Not the way they treat others.


----------



## Billo_Really

docmauser1 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Israel needs to end the occupation, period._
> 
> 
> 
> But what will palistanians do without occupation? It's their occupation!
Click to expand...

End their 40% un-employment.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

loinboy said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Israel needs to end the occupation, period._
> 
> 
> 
> But what will palistanians do without occupation? It's their occupation!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> End their 40% un-employment.
Click to expand...


If they have 40% unemployment, that just proves they are lazy bums.


----------



## Billo_Really

ForeverYoung436 said:


> If they have 40% unemployment, that just proves they are lazy bums.


No they're not.  They can't get any goods and services past the Israeli blockade of Gaza and over 500 checkpoints and roadblocks in the West Bank.

Their un-employment is a direct result of the illegal occupation and blockade by Israel.


----------



## ima

Roudy said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muzzy or ass kisser of IslamoNazis?  Is here a difference?  You probably have affiliations with some Islamic anti semetic assholes.  Who the fuck cares. They always recruit ignorant retards like yourself. It's nothing new.  They usually target prisons, convicts, murderers, and basically the lowest elements of society.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why? Where you targeted?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You won't find too many Jews in prison. But garbage like you, you'll find plenty of.
Click to expand...


Jews like you? You mean bonesmugglers? There's plenty of them/you guys in prison.


----------



## docmauser1

loinboy said:


> _There ain't no way God would choose people like them._


Can we hope that following this discovery the explorers will do something productive like getting a life and a job?


----------



## docmauser1

loinboy said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Israel needs to end the occupation, period._
> 
> 
> 
> But what will palistanians do without occupation? It's their occupation!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _End their 40% un-employment._
Click to expand...

But it's their occupation!


----------



## georgephillip

loinboy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."
> 
> Thump that. drivel.
> When did the Jews decide the Fourth Geneva Convention doesn't apply to the "chosen people?"
> 
> Fourth Geneva Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> There ain't no way God would choose people like them.
> 
> Not the way they treat others.
Click to expand...

For thousands of years a few (mostly greedy) Jews have engaged in behavior that has resulted in the deaths of millions of Jews; maybe it's the dark side of the producing genius in the proportion that Jews have demonstrated throughout the centuries? 

IMHO, there are some genius, greedy psychopathic Jews in this world today risking World War III in pursuit of Greater I$rael.


----------



## drtywhtboy

georgephillip said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."
> 
> Thump that. drivel.
> When did the Jews decide the Fourth Geneva Convention doesn't apply to the "chosen people?"
> 
> Fourth Geneva Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> There ain't no way God would choose people like them.
> 
> Not the way they treat others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For thousands of years a few (mostly greedy) Jews have engaged in behavior that has resulted in the deaths of millions of Jews; maybe it's the dark side of the producing genius in the proportion that Jews have demonstrated throughout the centuries?
> 
> IMHO, there are some genius, greedy psychopathic Jews in this world today risking World War III in pursuit of Greater I$rael.
Click to expand...


Your humble opinion should say that their are people like that in EVERY NATION on the earth...


----------



## georgephillip

drtywhtboy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There ain't no way God would choose people like them.
> 
> Not the way they treat others.
> 
> 
> 
> For thousands of years a few (mostly greedy) Jews have engaged in behavior that has resulted in the deaths of millions of Jews; maybe it's the dark side of the producing genius in the proportion that Jews have demonstrated throughout the centuries?
> 
> IMHO, there are some genius, greedy psychopathic Jews in this world today risking World War III in pursuit of Greater I$rael.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your humble opinion should say that their are people like that in EVERY NATION on the earth...
Click to expand...

First and foremost in the USA! USA! residing primarily in the halls of congress, the Pentagon and Wall Street. I worry most about greedy psychopaths with their (chosen) fingers wrapped around nuclear triggers.


----------



## Billo_Really

drtywhtboy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There ain't no way God would choose people like them.
> 
> Not the way they treat others.
> 
> 
> 
> For thousands of years a few (mostly greedy) Jews have engaged in behavior that has resulted in the deaths of millions of Jews; maybe it's the dark side of the producing genius in the proportion that Jews have demonstrated throughout the centuries?
> 
> IMHO, there are some genius, greedy psychopathic Jews in this world today risking World War III in pursuit of Greater I$rael.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your humble opinion should say that their are people like that in EVERY NATION on the earth...
Click to expand...

Of coarse there are.  I think zionists are a-holes who just use the religion of judaism to further their political agenda.  The reason I have so much contempt for them, is because they remind me of the neocon's in this country, whom I have real issues with, because they happen to be my countryman.  

I don't really care what goes on in Israel and their issues with the Pals.  I don't live there and I'm not a citizen of either country. Or one at least (maybe two someday). What happens there makes no difference in my daily life.  That's why it's so funny when people call me names in the other forum and say I'm sympathetic to terrorists.  I have no loyalty to either side and no stake in the outcome.  I'm about as objective as you can possibly be on this issue.  It wasn't until a couple of years ago, I didn't even know much about this conflict.  For almost 50 years, the only thing I knew about all this was Munich in '72.  Because I saw all that live when I was 14 years old.  

 But I am a citizen of this country and what the neocons do, does happen to effect me.  And so I'm a little more involved and a little bit more animated about them.  But that's for another thread to discuss.


----------



## Billo_Really

georgephillip said:


> First and foremost in the USA! USA! residing primarily in the halls of congress, the Pentagon and Wall Street. I worry most about greedy psychopaths with their (chosen) fingers wrapped around nuclear triggers.


Any country smart enough to build "the bomb", is also smart enough to know, that if they use that bomb, their country will glow in the dark.


----------



## georgephillip

loinboy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> First and foremost in the USA! USA! residing primarily in the halls of congress, the Pentagon and Wall Street. I worry most about greedy psychopaths with their (chosen) fingers wrapped around nuclear triggers.
> 
> 
> 
> Any country smart enough to build "the bomb", is also smart enough to know, that if they use that bomb, their country will glow in the dark.
Click to expand...

I hope you're right; however, I've read anecdotal reports from the '67 war of primitive Israeli nukes loaded onto flat-bed trucks and driven to the Egyptian border...sort of a kosher suicide mushroom KA-BOOM, if you get my drift.

Then there's today's Samson Option...

Samson Option - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."
> 
> Thump that. drivel.
> When did the Jews decide the Fourth Geneva Convention doesn't apply to the "chosen people?"
> 
> Fourth Geneva Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> There ain't no way God would choose people like them.
> 
> Not the way they treat others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For thousands of years a few (mostly greedy) Jews have engaged in behavior that has resulted in the deaths of millions of Jews; maybe it's the dark side of the producing genius in the proportion that Jews have demonstrated throughout the centuries?
> 
> IMHO, there are some genius, greedy psychopathic Jews in this world today risking World War III in pursuit of Greater I$rael.
Click to expand...

Somebody give these two skinhead, jew hating Islamo nazis a private bedroom so they can fuck each other in private.


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> drtywhtboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> For thousands of years a few (mostly greedy) Jews have engaged in behavior that has resulted in the deaths of millions of Jews; maybe it's the dark side of the producing genius in the proportion that Jews have demonstrated throughout the centuries?
> 
> IMHO, there are some genius, greedy psychopathic Jews in this world today risking World War III in pursuit of Greater I$rael.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your humble opinion should say that their are people like that in EVERY NATION on the earth...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> First and foremost in the USA! USA! residing primarily in the halls of congress, the Pentagon and Wall Street. I worry most about greedy psychopaths with their (chosen) fingers wrapped around nuclear triggers.
Click to expand...

You should worry about your fellow IslamoNazi animals in Iran doing that.


----------



## Roudy

ima said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why? Where you targeted?
> 
> 
> 
> You won't find too many Jews in prison. But garbage like you, you'll find plenty of.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews like you? You mean bonesmugglers? There's plenty of them/you guys in prison.
Click to expand...

Nope.  Prisons in America and across the world have become great recruitment centers for Muslim converts and Islamic terrorists. Tell the truth.

 Just as in Mohammad's days, he went to all the criminals, thugs and murderers and guaranteed them thievery, rape, looting, and virgins in heaven if they followed him in the invasions and Jihads. So they aren't doing anything different than what their history indicates.


----------



## sealadaigh

Roudy said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You won't find too many Jews in prison. But garbage like you, you'll find plenty of.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews like you? You mean bonesmugglers? There's plenty of them/you guys in prison.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope.  Prisons in America and across the world have become great recruitment centers for Muslim converts and Islamic terrorists. Tell the truth.
> 
> Just as in Mohammad's days, he went to all the criminals, thugs and murderers and guaranteed them thievery, rape, looting, and virgins in heaven if they followed him in the invasions and Jihads. So they aren't doing anything different than what their history indicates.
Click to expand...


i think the first recorded genocide was done by the "G-d" of the torah. i am not exactly sure what your point is, if any.


----------



## Roudy

reabhloideach said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews like you? You mean bonesmugglers? There's plenty of them/you guys in prison.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.  Prisons in America and across the world have become great recruitment centers for Muslim converts and Islamic terrorists. Tell the truth.
> 
> Just as in Mohammad's days, he went to all the criminals, thugs and murderers and guaranteed them thievery, rape, looting, and virgins in heaven if they followed him in the invasions and Jihads. So they aren't doing anything different than what their history indicates.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i think the first recorded genocide was done by the "G-d" of the torah. i am not exactly sure what your point is, if any.
Click to expand...

Well if we're going by what the OT, NT, and the Koran say, then the Israel belongs to the Jews.


----------



## georgephillip

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drtywhtboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your humble opinion should say that their are people like that in EVERY NATION on the earth...
> 
> 
> 
> First and foremost in the USA! USA! residing primarily in the halls of congress, the Pentagon and Wall Street. I worry most about greedy psychopaths with their (chosen) fingers wrapped around nuclear triggers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should worry about your fellow IslamoNazi animals in Iran doing that.
Click to expand...

*"It is believed that Israel had possessed *an operational nuclear weapons capability by 1967, with the mass production of nuclear warheads occurring immediately after the Six-Day War.[2]

Although no official statistics exist, it has been estimated that Israel possesses *from 75 to as many as 400 nuclear weapons*, which are reported to include thermonuclear weapons in the megaton range.[3][4][5] 

"Israel is also reported to possess a wide range of different systems, including neutron bombs, tactical nuclear weapons, and suitcase nukes.[6] Israel is believed to manufacture its nuclear weapons at the Negev Nuclear Research Center."

Israel and weapons of mass destruction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When Jerusalem glows in the dark...blame Lord Balfour...and Harry Truman.


----------



## irosie91

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> First and foremost in the USA! USA! residing primarily in the halls of congress, the Pentagon and Wall Street. I worry most about greedy psychopaths with their (chosen) fingers wrapped around nuclear triggers.
> 
> 
> 
> You should worry about your fellow IslamoNazi animals in Iran doing that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *"It is believed that Israel had possessed *an operational nuclear weapons capability by 1967, with the mass production of nuclear warheads occurring immediately after the Six-Day War.[2]
> 
> Although no official statistics exist, it has been estimated that Israel possesses *from 75 to as many as 400 nuclear weapons*, which are reported to include thermonuclear weapons in the megaton range.[3][4][5]
> 
> "Israel is also reported to possess a wide range of different systems, including neutron bombs, tactical nuclear weapons, and suitcase nukes.[6] Israel is believed to
> manufacture its nuclear weapons at the Negev Nuclear Research Center."
> 
> Israel and weapons of mass destruction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> When Jerusalem glows in the dark...blame Lord Balfour...and Harry Truman.
Click to expand...




Israel has proven itself the MOST RESPONSIBLE GUARDIAN of nuclear weapons----in fact   the most responsible guardian of any kind of weapon------even knives------Unlike your people they do not use them to slit the throats of infants.     The muslim turks murdered  TWO MILLION  armenians using nothing more than knives and clubs.   Weapons do not kill-----PEOPLE WITH A SICK IDEOLOGY KILL  

several million Biafrans in the early 1970s

several million east pakistani---also in the 70s  

millions in Uganda  

ongoing genocide of christians and hindus in both  Indonesia and Kenya

                      etc etc etc etc etc      all without nothing more than the 
                                        LOVE OF MURDER


----------



## ima

Roudy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.  Prisons in America and across the world have become great recruitment centers for Muslim converts and Islamic terrorists. Tell the truth.
> 
> Just as in Mohammad's days, he went to all the criminals, thugs and murderers and guaranteed them thievery, rape, looting, and virgins in heaven if they followed him in the invasions and Jihads. So they aren't doing anything different than what their history indicates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i think the first recorded genocide was done by the "G-d" of the torah. i am not exactly sure what your point is, if any.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Well if we're going by what the OT, NT, and the Koran say, then the Israel belongs to the Jews.*
Click to expand...


How's that working out for you guys? Having fun yet?


----------



## georgephillip

irosie91 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should worry about your fellow IslamoNazi animals in Iran doing that.
> 
> 
> 
> *"It is believed that Israel had possessed *an operational nuclear weapons capability by 1967, with the mass production of nuclear warheads occurring immediately after the Six-Day War.[2]
> 
> Although no official statistics exist, it has been estimated that Israel possesses *from 75 to as many as 400 nuclear weapons*, which are reported to include thermonuclear weapons in the megaton range.[3][4][5]
> 
> "Israel is also reported to possess a wide range of different systems, including neutron bombs, tactical nuclear weapons, and suitcase nukes.[6] Israel is believed to
> manufacture its nuclear weapons at the Negev Nuclear Research Center."
> 
> Israel and weapons of mass destruction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> When Jerusalem glows in the dark...blame Lord Balfour...and Harry Truman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has proven itself the MOST RESPONSIBLE GUARDIAN of nuclear weapons----in fact   the most responsible guardian of any kind of weapon------even knives------Unlike your people they do not use them to slit the throats of infants.     The muslim turks murdered  TWO MILLION  armenians using nothing more than knives and clubs.   Weapons do not kill-----PEOPLE WITH A SICK IDEOLOGY KILL
> 
> several million Biafrans in the early 1970s
> 
> several million east pakistani---also in the 70s
> 
> millions in Uganda
> 
> ongoing genocide of christians and hindus in both  Indonesia and Kenya
> 
> etc etc etc etc etc      all without nothing more than the
> LOVE OF MURDER
Click to expand...

So the "MOST RESPONSIBLE GUARDIAN of nuclear weapons" is the country who lies about their existence?

"Israel is widely believed to possess weapons of mass destruction, and to be one of four nuclear-armed countries not recognized as a Nuclear Weapons State by the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT).[1] 

"The US Congress Office of Technology Assessment has recorded Israel as a country generally reported as having undeclared chemical warfare capabilities, and an offensive biological warfare program.[2] 

*"Officially Israel neither confirms nor denies possessing nuclear weapons*." 

Israel and weapons of mass destruction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"My people" comprise the population of the greatest purveyor of violence on the planet.
The USA has murdered, maimed, displaced, and incarcerated millions of innocent human beings during the 65 years that I've been alive.
There's been no shortage of Muslim throat slittings during that time also.

Neither of those crimes exonerate "your people" and your illegal occupation of Palestine.

If you want the rest of humanity to cease killing for g-d and $, set a better example.


----------



## sealadaigh

Roudy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.  Prisons in America and across the world have become great recruitment centers for Muslim converts and Islamic terrorists. Tell the truth.
> 
> Just as in Mohammad's days, he went to all the criminals, thugs and murderers and guaranteed them thievery, rape, looting, and virgins in heaven if they followed him in the invasions and Jihads. So they aren't doing anything different than what their history indicates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i think the first recorded genocide was done by the "G-d" of the torah. i am not exactly sure what your point is, if any.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well if we're going by what the OT, NT, and the Koran say, then the Israel belongs to the Jews.
Click to expand...


if we are going by what the OT, NT, and the holy koran say is that israel, whatever it was, BELONGED to the jewish people, but all that really has nothing to do with what i said now, does it?

i think your point is, and you keep coming up with slight variations that are as equally boring as the original, is that you hate muslims. we get it. sorta sad really, because here they will soon outnumber you, perhaps they do already, and they will learn how to use their political power effectively, and they will remember the particularly vocal people like you, a stupid jew...and guess whose ass the presidential candidates will be kissing then, and all you will be left with is kissing your own ass...........goodbye.

ya know, if y'all drop the attitude, maybe people would start caring about you again, like before they were exposed to the attitude.


----------



## Roudy

ima said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think the first recorded genocide was done by the "G-d" of the torah. i am not exactly sure what your point is, if any.
> 
> 
> 
> *Well if we're going by what the OT, NT, and the Koran say, then the Israel belongs to the Jews.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How's that working out for you guys? Having fun yet?
Click to expand...

Irrelevant.


----------



## Roudy

reabhloideach said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think the first recorded genocide was done by the "G-d" of the torah. i am not exactly sure what your point is, if any.
> 
> 
> 
> Well if we're going by what the OT, NT, and the Koran say, then the Israel belongs to the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> if we are going by what the OT, NT, and the holy koran say is that israel, whatever it was, BELONGED to the jewish people, but all that really has nothing to do with what i said now, does it?
> 
> i think your point is, and you keep coming up with slight variations that are as equally boring as the original, is that you hate muslims. we get it. sorta sad really, because here they will soon outnumber you, perhaps they do already, and they will learn how to use their political power effectively, and they will remember the particularly vocal people like you, a stupid jew...and guess whose ass the presidential candidates will be kissing then, and all you will be left with is kissing your own ass...........goodbye.
> 
> ya know, if y'all drop the attitude, maybe people would start caring about you again, like before they were exposed to the attitude.
Click to expand...

Stop blabbering you piece of shit Jew hater.  You started talking about a battle in the OT as if it was recorded history, and I reminded you of other quotes in all three books regarding of the status of Israel, to add to that recorded history.


----------



## georgephillip

"The CIA considers Israel its No. 1 counterintelligence threat in the agency's Near East Division, the group that oversees spying across the Middle East, according to current and former officials. Counterintelligence is the art of protecting national secrets from spies. This means the CIA believes that U.S. national secrets are safer from other Middle Eastern governments than from Israel."

US sees Israel, tight Mideast ally, as spy threat - CBS News

*Or maybe CBS is Antisemitic or un-American?*
Which is it, Rougey?


----------



## Roudy

Is dat all you got?  Ha ha ha!


----------



## georgephillip

Is that a picture of Sharon"s mother?

How about AP on Money (Monkey) Mitt and Jonathan (the Chimp) Pollard?

"WASHINGTON (AP)&#8212;As Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney and other U.S. politicians heap praise on Israel, officials say there's another side to America's close relationship with the Israelis.

"They say the CIA considers the Israelis its No. 1 counterintelligence threat in the agency's Near East Division, the group that oversees spying across the Middle East.

"CIA officers stationed in Israel report break-ins at their homes and the tampering of sensitive communication equipment. *Officials say working in Israel is like operating in Moscow.*

"Such meddling underscores what's widely known but rarely discussed outside intelligence circles: Despite strong ties between the countries, officials see Israel as a frustrating ally at best and, at times, an adversary looking to steal secrets."

Romney, Pollard and Israel: The Next Big Gaffe? | The Nation


----------



## sealadaigh

Roudy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well if we're going by what the OT, NT, and the Koran say, then the Israel belongs to the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if we are going by what the OT, NT, and the holy koran say is that israel, whatever it was, BELONGED to the jewish people, but all that really has nothing to do with what i said now, does it?
> 
> i think your point is, and you keep coming up with slight variations that are as equally boring as the original, is that you hate muslims. we get it. sorta sad really, because here they will soon outnumber you, perhaps they do already, and they will learn how to use their political power effectively, and they will remember the particularly vocal people like you, a stupid jew...and guess whose ass the presidential candidates will be kissing then, and all you will be left with is kissing your own ass...........goodbye.
> 
> ya know, if y'all drop the attitude, maybe people would start caring about you again, like before they were exposed to the attitude.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stop blabbering you piece of shit Jew hater.  You started talking about a battle in the OT as if it was recorded history, and I reminded you of other quotes in all three books regarding of the status of Israel, to add to that recorded history.
Click to expand...


LOL...i'm wearing your silly little zio-butt out, clown.


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> Is that a picture of Sharon"s mother?
> 
> How about AP on Money (Monkey) Mitt and Jonathan (the Chimp) Pollard?
> 
> "WASHINGTON (AP)&#8212;As Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney and other U.S. politicians heap praise on Israel, officials say there's another side to America's close relationship with the Israelis.
> 
> "They say the CIA considers the Israelis its No. 1 counterintelligence threat in the agency's Near East Division, the group that oversees spying across the Middle East.
> 
> "CIA officers stationed in Israel report break-ins at their homes and the tampering of sensitive communication equipment. *Officials say working in Israel is like operating in Moscow.*
> 
> "Such meddling underscores what's widely known but rarely discussed outside intelligence circles: Despite strong ties between the countries, officials see Israel as a frustrating ally at best and, at times, an adversary looking to steal secrets."
> 
> Romney, Pollard and Israel: The Next Big Gaffe? | The Nation


You're like a fucking broken record.  Get some new material, Abdul.


----------



## ima

Roudy said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Well if we're going by what the OT, NT, and the Koran say, then the Israel belongs to the Jews.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How's that working out for you guys? Having fun yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Irrelevant.
Click to expand...


It's irrelevant that it's not working out so well?


----------



## sealadaigh

Roudy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well if we're going by what the OT, NT, and the Koran say, then the Israel belongs to the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if we are going by what the OT, NT, and the holy koran say is that israel, whatever it was, BELONGED to the jewish people, but all that really has nothing to do with what i said now, does it?
> 
> i think your point is, and you keep coming up with slight variations that are as equally boring as the original, is that you hate muslims. we get it. sorta sad really, because here they will soon outnumber you, perhaps they do already, and they will learn how to use their political power effectively, and they will remember the particularly vocal people like you, a stupid jew...and guess whose ass the presidential candidates will be kissing then, and all you will be left with is kissing your own ass...........goodbye.
> 
> ya know, if y'all drop the attitude, maybe people would start caring about you again, like before they were exposed to the attitude.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stop blabbering you piece of shit Jew hater.  You started talking about a battle in the OT as if it was recorded history, and I reminded you of other quotes in all three books regarding of the status of Israel, to add to that recorded history.
Click to expand...


lolol...you're the one touting these things as history and some sort of god's real estate listings. i have always regarded them as allegory.

but allegory or history or whatever, your "G-d" and your people committed the first recorded genocide in history. i.e. the first time a genocide was recorded, either factual or allegorical, was in the bible.

and chill on the name calling, dude. what the heck does that accomplish.


----------



## drtywhtboy

reabhloideach said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> if we are going by what the OT, NT, and the holy koran say is that israel, whatever it was, BELONGED to the jewish people, but all that really has nothing to do with what i said now, does it?
> 
> i think your point is, and you keep coming up with slight variations that are as equally boring as the original, is that you hate muslims. we get it. sorta sad really, because here they will soon outnumber you, perhaps they do already, and they will learn how to use their political power effectively, and they will remember the particularly vocal people like you, a stupid jew...and guess whose ass the presidential candidates will be kissing then, and all you will be left with is kissing your own ass...........goodbye.
> 
> ya know, if y'all drop the attitude, maybe people would start caring about you again, like before they were exposed to the attitude.
> 
> 
> 
> Stop blabbering you piece of shit Jew hater.  You started talking about a battle in the OT as if it was recorded history, and I reminded you of other quotes in all three books regarding of the status of Israel, to add to that recorded history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> lolol...you're the one touting these things as history and some sort of god's real estate listings. i have always regarded them as allegory.
> 
> but allegory or history or whatever, your "G-d" and your people committed the first recorded genocide in history. i.e. the first time a genocide was recorded, either factual or allegorical, was in the bible.
> 
> and chill on the name calling, dude. what the heck does that accomplish.
Click to expand...


 Actually the land that belonged to Israel in the old testament DOES matter today. Israel will once again hold the land that King David held during his reign in the old Testament.


----------



## ima

drtywhtboy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop blabbering you piece of shit Jew hater.  You started talking about a battle in the OT as if it was recorded history, and I reminded you of other quotes in all three books regarding of the status of Israel, to add to that recorded history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lolol...you're the one touting these things as history and some sort of god's real estate listings. i have always regarded them as allegory.
> 
> but allegory or history or whatever, your "G-d" and your people committed the first recorded genocide in history. i.e. the first time a genocide was recorded, either factual or allegorical, was in the bible.
> 
> and chill on the name calling, dude. what the heck does that accomplish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually the land that belonged to Israel in the old testament DOES matter today. Israel will once again hold the land that King David held during his reign in the old Testament.
Click to expand...


Too bad the OT is a book of fiction. Please try again.


----------



## Hossfly

ima said:


> drtywhtboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> lolol...you're the one touting these things as history and some sort of god's real estate listings. i have always regarded them as allegory.
> 
> but allegory or history or whatever, your "G-d" and your people committed the first recorded genocide in history. i.e. the first time a genocide was recorded, either factual or allegorical, was in the bible.
> 
> and chill on the name calling, dude. what the heck does that accomplish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually the land that belonged to Israel in the old testament DOES matter today. Israel will once again hold the land that King David held during his reign in the old Testament.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Too bad the OT is a book of fiction. Please try again.
Click to expand...

My book says you are wrong.


----------



## psed007

Hi there,

I read that some guys think the book of the books (OT) is a book of fiction ?!?!?. Let me provide my point of view on that topic:

1. The OT is the oldest known book which has a plot and it is a completed peace of literature.
2. The OT is called the TANAH. TORAH is the 5 book of moses.
3. The old testament became the old when the new was written, of course based on the OT
4. The qur'an has the base in the OT and the NT
5. The versioning is obvious:
 1.0 The all mighty speaks with moses one to one
 1.1 The all mighty speaks with the prophets in trance
 2.0 The all mighty sends his son ?!?!?
 3.0 The all mighty doesn't speak with anyone anymore, only an ark angel speaks with a prophet.
5. Beside geographical facts the OT also contains things like: you should not kill, civil law, the need of judges, family law, building of proper military and governmental organisations and lot more...

If this book would be a fiction then it would not represent a major factor to our society. The biggest problem of the people is that they are not educated in a proper way nor they have the wish to have a proper education. Why are jews different ? Why are jews more successful in relation of their population ? Very simple: They read a different book !  

The evolution might be the answer for the 'HOW' but not for the 'WHY'

Peace


----------



## drtywhtboy

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drtywhtboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually the land that belonged to Israel in the old testament DOES matter today. Israel will once again hold the land that King David held during his reign in the old Testament.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad the OT is a book of fiction. Please try again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My book says you are wrong.
Click to expand...




 Really? You think the Old Testament is wrong....how about I prove you wrong....
      Would that interest you?


----------



## Hossfly

drtywhtboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad the OT is a book of fiction. Please try again.
> 
> 
> 
> My book says you are wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really? You think the Old Testament is wrong....how about I prove you wrong....
> Would that interest you?
Click to expand...

You're welcome to make a feeble attempt but you won't change my mind. My book is the OT and it is both history and common sense.


----------



## georgephillip

drtywhtboy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop blabbering you piece of shit Jew hater.  You started talking about a battle in the OT as if it was recorded history, and I reminded you of other quotes in all three books regarding of the status of Israel, to add to that recorded history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lolol...you're the one touting these things as history and some sort of god's real estate listings. i have always regarded them as allegory.
> 
> but allegory or history or whatever, your "G-d" and your people committed the first recorded genocide in history. i.e. the first time a genocide was recorded, either factual or allegorical, was in the bible.
> 
> and chill on the name calling, dude. what the heck does that accomplish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually the land that belonged to Israel in the old testament DOES matter today. Israel will once again hold the land that King David held during his reign in the old Testament.
Click to expand...

*Actually the Jews only "owned" that land for about 80 years.*

"Palestinians have continuously resided in Palestine since four thousand years before Christ, Abo-Sak pointed out. Their ancestors built the cities of Jerusalem, Nablus, Jericho, Beisan, Acca and Jaffa. *The Hebrews arrived in the land between 1400-1200 B.C*., and only maintained control over it during the lifetimes of King David and his son King Solomon &#8211; a period of about 80 years."

US Involvement in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Solution or Complication? by Lt. Col. Mohammed F. Abo-Sak

And it's still difficult to understand why three thousand year-old controversies justify the Jewish state's "liberation" of Judea and Samaria in 1967?


----------



## ima

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drtywhtboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually the land that belonged to Israel in the old testament DOES matter today. Israel will once again hold the land that King David held during his reign in the old Testament.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad the OT is a book of fiction. Please try again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My book says you are wrong.
Click to expand...


What book is that and why is it to be considered factual?


----------



## ima

psed007 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I read that some guys think the book of the books (OT) is a book of fiction ?!?!?. Let me provide my point of view on that topic:
> 
> 1. The OT is the oldest known book which has a plot and it is a completed peace of literature.
> 2. The OT is called the TANAH. TORAH is the 5 book of moses.
> 3. The old testament became the old when the new was written, of course based on the OT
> 4. The qur'an has the base in the OT and the NT
> 5. The versioning is obvious:
> 1.0 The all mighty speaks with moses one to one
> 1.1 The all mighty speaks with the prophets in trance
> 2.0 The all mighty sends his son ?!?!?
> 3.0 The all mighty doesn't speak with anyone anymore, only an ark angel speaks with a prophet.
> 5. Beside geographical facts the OT also contains things like: you should not kill, civil law, the need of judges, family law, building of proper military and governmental organisations and lot more...
> 
> If this book would be a fiction then it would not represent a major factor to our society. The biggest problem of the people is that they are not educated in a proper way nor they have the wish to have a proper education. Why are jews different ? Why are jews more successful in relation of their population ? Very simple: They read a different book !
> 
> The evolution might be the answer for the 'HOW' but not for the 'WHY'
> 
> Peace



Please first explain/prove that the world was made in 6 days. And then introduce me to the "He" who rested on the next day. Otherwise, please


----------



## psed007

ima said:


> psed007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> I read that some guys think the book of the books (OT) is a book of fiction ?!?!?. Let me provide my point of view on that topic:
> 
> 1. The OT is the oldest known book which has a plot and it is a completed peace of literature.
> 2. The OT is called the TANAH. TORAH is the 5 book of moses.
> 3. The old testament became the old when the new was written, of course based on the OT
> 4. The qur'an has the base in the OT and the NT
> 5. The versioning is obvious:
> 1.0 The all mighty speaks with moses one to one
> 1.1 The all mighty speaks with the prophets in trance
> 2.0 The all mighty sends his son ?!?!?
> 3.0 The all mighty doesn't speak with anyone anymore, only an ark angel speaks with a prophet.
> 5. Beside geographical facts the OT also contains things like: you should not kill, civil law, the need of judges, family law, building of proper military and governmental organisations and lot more...
> 
> If this book would be a fiction then it would not represent a major factor to our society. The biggest problem of the people is that they are not educated in a proper way nor they have the wish to have a proper education. Why are jews different ? Why are jews more successful in relation of their population ? Very simple: They read a different book !
> 
> The evolution might be the answer for the 'HOW' but not for the 'WHY'
> 
> Peace
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please first explain/prove that the world was made in 6 days. And then introduce me to the "He" who rested on the next day. Otherwise, please
Click to expand...


Prove it is not  Anyhow, the explanation of the creation is far beyond my power and not my business since I'am here and alive. More interesting is the story of us. What we did and what we don't. You don't have to be a believer to read a book and you don't have to be blind that the written things doesn't changed since then. It is a story about us not about g'd. Educate yourself otherwise, please


----------



## straight_ahead

Below is a list of moslem countries.    Except for the former Soviet Union and some sub Saharan African countries, most moslem countries are theocracies that persecute all but their own.  Why don't you explain why moslems deserve all these countries and Jews deserve zero?

Indonesia 
Pakistan 	
Nigeria 	
Bangladesh 	
Egypt 	
Iran 	
Turkey 	
Sudan 	
Algeria 	
Morocco 	
Iraq 
Afghanistan 	
Malaysia 	
Uzbekistan 	
Saudi Arabia 
Yemen 	
Syria 	
Kazakhstan 	
Niger 	
Burkina Faso 	
Mali 	
Senegal 	
Tunisia 	
Guinea 	
Somalia 	
Azerbaijan 	
Tajikistan 	
Sierra Leone 	
Libya 	
Jordan 	
United Arab Emirates 
Kyrgyzstan 	
Turkmenistan 	
Chad 	
Lebanon 	
Palestine 	
Kuwait 
Albania	
Mauritania 	
Oman 	
Kosovo
Bahrain
Comoros 
Qatar 	
Western Sahara
Djibouti 	
Brunei 	
Maldives 		
Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus
Mayotte


----------



## Billo_Really

straight_ahead said:


> Below is a list of moslem countries.    Except for the former Soviet Union and some sub Saharan African countries, most moslem countries are theocracies that persecute all but their own.  Why don't you explain why moslems deserve all these countries and Jews deserve zero?
> 
> Indonesia
> Pakistan
> Nigeria
> Bangladesh
> Egypt
> Iran
> Turkey
> Sudan
> Algeria
> Morocco
> Iraq
> Afghanistan
> Malaysia
> Uzbekistan
> Saudi Arabia
> Yemen
> Syria
> Kazakhstan
> Niger
> Burkina Faso
> Mali
> Senegal
> Tunisia
> Guinea
> Somalia
> Azerbaijan
> Tajikistan
> Sierra Leone
> Libya
> Jordan
> United Arab Emirates
> Kyrgyzstan
> Turkmenistan
> Chad
> Lebanon
> Palestine
> Kuwait
> Albania
> Mauritania
> Oman
> Kosovo
> Bahrain
> Comoros
> Qatar
> Western Sahara
> Djibouti
> Brunei
> Maldives
> Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus
> Mayotte


No one is denying the jews their own country, but Israel is denying the Palestinian's theirs.


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _"Palestinians have continuously resided in Palestine since four thousand years before Christ, Abo-Sak pointed out._


Abu-Sack of drivel.


----------



## VirtualEman

ima said:


> psed007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> I read that some guys think the book of the books (OT) is a book of fiction ?!?!?. Let me provide my point of view on that topic:
> 
> 1. The OT is the oldest known book which has a plot and it is a completed peace of literature.
> 2. The OT is called the TANAH. TORAH is the 5 book of moses.
> 3. The old testament became the old when the new was written, of course based on the OT
> 4. The qur'an has the base in the OT and the NT
> 5. The versioning is obvious:
> 1.0 The all mighty speaks with moses one to one
> 1.1 The all mighty speaks with the prophets in trance
> 2.0 The all mighty sends his son ?!?!?
> 3.0 The all mighty doesn't speak with anyone anymore, only an ark angel speaks with a prophet.
> 5. Beside geographical facts the OT also contains things like: you should not kill, civil law, the need of judges, family law, building of proper military and governmental organisations and lot more...
> 
> If this book would be a fiction then it would not represent a major factor to our society. The biggest problem of the people is that they are not educated in a proper way nor they have the wish to have a proper education. Why are jews different ? Why are jews more successful in relation of their population ? Very simple: They read a different book !
> 
> The evolution might be the answer for the 'HOW' but not for the 'WHY'
> 
> Peace
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please first explain/prove that the world was made in 6 days. And then introduce me to the "He" who rested on the next day. Otherwise, please
Click to expand...


It wouldn't be in the bible(s) if it weren't ta-rue, Ima. "G-d" says so.


----------



## straight_ahead

loinboy said:


> straight_ahead said:
> 
> 
> 
> Below is a list of moslem countries.    Except for the former Soviet Union and some sub Saharan African countries, most moslem countries are theocracies that persecute all but their own.  Why don't you explain why moslems deserve all these countries and Jews deserve zero?
> 
> Indonesia
> Pakistan
> Nigeria
> Bangladesh
> Egypt
> Iran
> Turkey
> Sudan
> Algeria
> Morocco
> Iraq
> Afghanistan
> Malaysia
> Uzbekistan
> Saudi Arabia
> Yemen
> Syria
> Kazakhstan
> Niger
> Burkina Faso
> Mali
> Senegal
> Tunisia
> Guinea
> Somalia
> Azerbaijan
> Tajikistan
> Sierra Leone
> Libya
> Jordan
> United Arab Emirates
> Kyrgyzstan
> Turkmenistan
> Chad
> Lebanon
> Palestine
> Kuwait
> Albania
> Mauritania
> Oman
> Kosovo
> Bahrain
> Comoros
> Qatar
> Western Sahara
> Djibouti
> Brunei
> Maldives
> Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus
> Mayotte
> 
> 
> 
> No one is denying the jews their own country, but Israel is denying the Palestinian's theirs.
Click to expand...



No they're not.  Bill Clinton in his own words:

"The deal was so good that I couldn't believe that anyone would be foolish to say no.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdK__3xuriE&feature=relmfu]Bill Clinton blames Yasser Arafat for Rejecting Peace "I am a failure, and you have made me one" - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## MrAlwaysRight

No they're not. Bill Clinton in his own words:

"The deal was so good that I couldn't believe that anyone would be foolish to say no.
-------------------------------

Is this the same guy who "pardoned" Marc Rich, who bribed his brother-in-law, Hugh Rodham?
The same guy who "did NOT have 'sex' with that little Jewish girl?
That guy is your reference on truth and justice?


----------



## straight_ahead

MrAlwaysRight said:


> No they're not. Bill Clinton in his own words:
> 
> "The deal was so good that I couldn't believe that anyone would be foolish to say no.
> -------------------------------
> 
> Is this the same guy who "pardoned" Marc Rich, who bribed his brother-in-law, Hugh Rodham?
> The same guy who "did NOT have 'sex' with that little Jewish girl?
> That guy is your reference on truth and justice?




Yes, that's him.

I don't like Bill Clinton but this is documented history.  Not that facts or common sense would make any difference to anyone that supports the terrorists.

moslem vs. Christian
moslem vs. Jew
moslem vs. Hindu

Anyone notice a pattern here?


----------



## Hossfly

Hossfly said:


> drtywhtboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> My book says you are wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really? You think the Old Testament is wrong....how about I prove you wrong....
> Would that interest you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're welcome to make a feeble attempt but you won't change my mind. My book is the OT and it is both history and common sense.
Click to expand...

Sorry, Drtywhtboy, I thought I was answering ima prick. Another senior moment.


----------



## georgephillip

straight_ahead said:


> MrAlwaysRight said:
> 
> 
> 
> No they're not. Bill Clinton in his own words:
> 
> "The deal was so good that I couldn't believe that anyone would be foolish to say no.
> -------------------------------
> 
> Is this the same guy who "pardoned" Marc Rich, who bribed his brother-in-law, Hugh Rodham?
> The same guy who "did NOT have 'sex' with that little Jewish girl?
> That guy is your reference on truth and justice?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that's him.
> 
> I don't like Bill Clinton but this is documented history.  Not that facts or common sense would make any difference to anyone that supports the terrorists.
> 
> moslem vs. Christian
> moslem vs. Jew
> moslem vs. Hindu
> 
> Anyone notice a pattern here?
Click to expand...

I've noticed a pattern of Christians killing thousands of Muslim children for $...

"These results provide strong evidence that the Gulf war and trade sanctions caused a threefold increase in mortality among Iraqi children under five years of age. We estimate that an excess of more than *46,900 children* died between January and August 1991. (N Engl J Med 1992;327:931&#8211;6.)"

MMS: Error

Does that make the Christians terrorists?


----------



## Billo_Really

straight_ahead said:


> Yes, that's him.
> 
> I don't like Bill Clinton but this is documented history.  Not that facts or common sense would make any difference to anyone that supports the terrorists.
> 
> moslem vs. Christian
> moslem vs. Jew
> moslem vs. Hindu
> 
> Anyone notice a pattern here?


Except that muslim's are responsible for only 6% of all terrorist acts in the US since 1980.


----------



## straight_ahead

loinboy said:


> Except that muslim's are responsible for only 6% of all terrorist acts in the US since 1980.




And where did that work of fiction come from?  Why don't you list all the terrorist attacks from "Jewish Extremists".  Oh wait, let me guess.  9/11, right?


----------



## eots




----------



## Hollie

straight_ahead said:


> MrAlwaysRight said:
> 
> 
> 
> No they're not. Bill Clinton in his own words:
> 
> "The deal was so good that I couldn't believe that anyone would be foolish to say no.
> -------------------------------
> 
> Is this the same guy who "pardoned" Marc Rich, who bribed his brother-in-law, Hugh Rodham?
> The same guy who "did NOT have 'sex' with that little Jewish girl?
> That guy is your reference on truth and justice?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that's him.
> 
> I don't like Bill Clinton but this is documented history.  Not that facts or common sense would make any difference to anyone that supports the terrorists.
> 
> moslem vs. Christian
> moslem vs. Jew
> moslem vs. Hindu
> 
> Anyone notice a pattern here?
Click to expand...


Almost as often: moslem vs. moslem.

Those mass murders via car bombings of shia vs. sunni are spectacularly successful.


----------



## VirtualEman

Hollie said:


> moslem vs. Christian
> moslem vs. Jew
> moslem vs. Hindu
> 
> Anyone notice a pattern here?



Almost as often: moslem vs. moslem.

Those mass murders via car bombings of shia vs. sunni are spectacularly successful.[/QUOTE]

Yeah! Why can't they just get billions in hi-tech weaponry from US and kill people from afar like all decent and ethical armies do?


----------



## Billo_Really

straight_ahead said:


> And where did that work of fiction come from?  Why don't you list all the terrorist attacks from "Jewish Extremists".  Oh wait, let me guess.  9/11, right?


From the FBI, dumbass!


----------



## Hollie

VirtualEman said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> moslem vs. Christian
> moslem vs. Jew
> moslem vs. Hindu
> 
> Anyone notice a pattern here?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Almost as often: moslem vs. moslem.
> 
> Those mass murders via car bombings of shia vs. sunni are spectacularly successful.
Click to expand...


Yeah! Why can't they just get billions in hi-tech weaponry from US and kill people from afar like all decent and ethical armies do?[/QUOTE]

Gee-had is both personal and communal. You are also apparently unaware of the 1,400 year old blood-feud that divide the two largest tribes of islamism.

The sunni and shia _have_ managed and _still_manage to do phenomenal damage to one another. I dont think giving these throwbacks heavier weapons is such a good idea.


----------



## P F Tinmore

straight_ahead said:


> MrAlwaysRight said:
> 
> 
> 
> No they're not. Bill Clinton in his own words:
> 
> "The deal was so good that I couldn't believe that anyone would be foolish to say no.
> -------------------------------
> 
> Is this the same guy who "pardoned" Marc Rich, who bribed his brother-in-law, Hugh Rodham?
> The same guy who "did NOT have 'sex' with that little Jewish girl?
> That guy is your reference on truth and justice?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that's him.
> 
> I don't like Bill Clinton but this is documented history.  Not that facts or common sense would make any difference to anyone that supports the terrorists.
> 
> moslem vs. Christian
> moslem vs. Jew
> moslem vs. Hindu
> 
> Anyone notice a pattern here?
Click to expand...


Except in Israel's war. The Muslims and Christians are on the same side being attacked by the Jews.


----------



## docmauser1

loinboy said:


> straight_ahead said:
> 
> 
> 
> _And where did that work of fiction come from? Why don't you list all the terrorist attacks from "Jewish Extremists". Oh wait, let me guess.  9/11, right?_
> 
> 
> 
> _From the FBI, dumbass!_
Click to expand...

Yeah! In memorable words of Gabriel Schoenfeld "The FBI's failure to see clear warning signs in the Fort Hood case revives the question of whether it's up to the task of countering terrorism. Before his murderous rampage, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan was exchanging e-mails with a radical Yemen-based imam with ties to the 9/11 hijackers. FBI investigators examined intercepts - and, finding that their "content was explainable by his research," concluded "that Hasan was not involved in terrorist activities or terrorist planning." It did not warn the Army of the potential menace."


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> straight_ahead said:
> 
> 
> 
> _And where did that work of fiction come from? Why don't you list all the terrorist attacks from "Jewish Extremists". Oh wait, let me guess.  9/11, right?_
> 
> 
> 
> _From the FBI, dumbass!_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah! In memorable words of Gabriel Schoenfeld "The FBI's failure to see clear warning signs in the Fort Hood case revives the question of whether it's up to the task of countering terrorism. Before his murderous rampage, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan was exchanging e-mails with a radical Yemen-based imam with ties to the 9/11 hijackers. FBI investigators examined intercepts - and, finding that their "content was explainable by his research," concluded "that Hasan was not involved in terrorist activities or terrorist planning." It did not warn the Army of the potential menace."
Click to expand...

Had the US chosen NOT to invade and occupy two countries which had little to do with the 911 hijackers, murdering, maiming, displacing, and incarcerating millions of innocent Muslims along the way, Major Hasan would've had no reason to turn to terror. If one-third of the citizens of 1948 Palestine had chosen NOT to inflict a Jewish state on their country, 911 itself becomes less likely.

*Say your sorry. drivel!*


----------



## Billo_Really

docmauser1 said:


> Yeah! In memorable words of Gabriel Schoenfeld "The FBI's failure to see clear warning signs in the Fort Hood case revives the question of whether it's up to the task of countering terrorism. Before his murderous rampage, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan was exchanging e-mails with a radical Yemen-based imam with ties to the 9/11 hijackers. FBI investigators examined intercepts - and, finding that their "content was explainable by his research," concluded "that Hasan was not involved in terrorist activities or terrorist planning." It did not warn the Army of the potential menace."


Maj. Hassan was not a jihadist!  He was just a person who wanted out of the military and did not want to be sent to Iraq.  He wrote many letters to his commanding officers requesting a discharge, but to no avail.  He went off, because they wouldn't let him out of the army.


----------



## irosie91

loinboy said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah! In memorable words of Gabriel Schoenfeld "The FBI's failure to see clear warning signs in the Fort Hood case revives the question of whether it's up to the task of countering terrorism. Before his murderous rampage, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan was exchanging e-mails with a radical Yemen-based imam with ties to the 9/11 hijackers. FBI investigators examined intercepts - and, finding that their "content was explainable by his research," concluded "that Hasan was not involved in terrorist activities or terrorist planning." It did not warn the Army of the potential menace."
> 
> 
> 
> Maj. Hassan was not a jihadist!  He was just a person who wanted out of the military and did not want to be sent to Iraq.  He wrote many letters to his commanding officers requesting a discharge, but to no avail.  He went off, because they wouldn't let him out of the army.
Click to expand...


I served in the military-----in fact part of my job was deciding WHO WAS UNFIT for service     I assure you----anyone who wants out can get out.      To suggest that a PSYCHIATRIST would not know how to get out of military service is quite a joke     Hasan was and is a filthy and disgusting murdering pig.      A doctor who murders his own patient population is not fit to be called HUMAN or even a slime mold------he did what he did for his disgusting and perverse  "god" as a disgusting a perverse-----thing


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the FBI, dumbass![/size][/i]
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah! In memorable words of Gabriel Schoenfeld "The FBI's failure to see clear warning signs in the Fort Hood case revives the question of whether it's up to the task of countering terrorism. Before his murderous rampage, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan was exchanging e-mails with a radical Yemen-based imam with ties to the 9/11 hijackers. FBI investigators examined intercepts - and, finding that their "content was explainable by his research," concluded "that Hasan was not involved in terrorist activities or terrorist planning." It did not warn the Army of the potential menace."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Had the US chosen NOT to invade and occupy two countries which had little to do with the 911 hijackers, murdering, maiming, displacing, and incarcerating millions of innocent Muslims along the way, Major Hasan would've had no reason to turn to terror. If one-third of the citizens of 1948 Palestine had chosen NOT to inflict a Jewish state on their country, 911 itself becomes less likely.
> 
> *Say your sorry. drivel!*
Click to expand...

Looks as if GeorgieP is an apologist for Muslim terrorists and and murderers. Not a big step from apologizing to helping out the muhajirun, eh Georgie?


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah! In memorable words of Gabriel Schoenfeld "The FBI's failure to see clear warning signs in the Fort Hood case revives the question of whether it's up to the task of countering terrorism. Before his murderous rampage, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan was exchanging e-mails with a radical Yemen-based imam with ties to the 9/11 hijackers. FBI investigators examined intercepts - and, finding that their "content was explainable by his research," concluded "that Hasan was not involved in terrorist activities or terrorist planning." It did not warn the Army of the potential menace."
> 
> 
> 
> Had the US chosen NOT to invade and occupy two countries which had little to do with the 911 hijackers, murdering, maiming, displacing, and incarcerating millions of innocent Muslims along the way, Major Hasan would've had no reason to turn to terror. If one-third of the citizens of 1948 Palestine had chosen NOT to inflict a Jewish state on their country, 911 itself becomes less likely.
> 
> *Say your sorry. drivel!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looks as if GeorgieP is an apologist for Muslim terrorists and and murderers. Not a big step from apologizing to helping out the muhajirun, eh Georgie?
Click to expand...

I don't make apologies for the greatest purveyor of violence on earth because of an accident of birth, Hoss.  Israel is a strategic asset in the US Empire, and, imho, that's the only reason the Jewish state exists in its present form today. I see Major Hasan as a victim of Empire who made the wrong choice about who's really at fault..."time served" would be my sentence.

What's yours?


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had the US chosen NOT to invade and occupy two countries which had little to do with the 911 hijackers, murdering, maiming, displacing, and incarcerating millions of innocent Muslims along the way, Major Hasan would've had no reason to turn to terror. If one-third of the citizens of 1948 Palestine had chosen NOT to inflict a Jewish state on their country, 911 itself becomes less likely.
> 
> *Say your sorry. drivel!*
> 
> 
> 
> Looks as if GeorgieP is an apologist for Muslim terrorists and and murderers. Not a big step from apologizing to helping out the muhajirun, eh Georgie?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't make apologies for the greatest purveyor of violence on earth because of an accident of birth, Hoss.  Israel is a strategic asset in the US Empire, and, imho, that's the only reason the Jewish state exists in its present form today. I see Major Hasan as a victim of Empire who made the wrong choice about who's really at fault..."time served" would be my sentence.
> 
> What's yours?
Click to expand...

Nuffin, Benedict.


----------



## Hossfly

eots said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPjz6Degumw


American? With that Gaza accent. Hoo boy!!!


----------



## Billo_Really

irosie91 said:


> I served in the military-----in fact part of my job was deciding WHO WAS UNFIT for service     I assure you----anyone who wants out can get out.      To suggest that a PSYCHIATRIST would not know how to get out of military service is quite a joke     Hasan was and is a filthy and disgusting murdering pig.      A doctor who murders his own patient population is not fit to be called HUMAN or even a slime mold------he did what he did for his disgusting and perverse  "god" as a disgusting a perverse-----thing


You can't re-write history.  

His cries for help were ignored and well documented.


----------



## Hollie

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the FBI, dumbass![/size][/i]
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah! In memorable words of Gabriel Schoenfeld "The FBI's failure to see clear warning signs in the Fort Hood case revives the question of whether it's up to the task of countering terrorism. Before his murderous rampage, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan was exchanging e-mails with a radical Yemen-based imam with ties to the 9/11 hijackers. FBI investigators examined intercepts - and, finding that their "content was explainable by his research," concluded "that Hasan was not involved in terrorist activities or terrorist planning." It did not warn the Army of the potential menace."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Had the US chosen NOT to invade and occupy two countries which had little to do with the 911 hijackers, murdering, maiming, displacing, and incarcerating millions of innocent Muslims along the way, Major Hasan would've had no reason to turn to terror. If one-third of the citizens of 1948 Palestine had chosen NOT to inflict a Jewish state on their country, 911 itself becomes less likely.
> 
> *Say your sorry. drivel!*
Click to expand...

I think its both dangerous and immoral to make excuses for the acts of a mass murder with slogans and cliches.  

It should be clear by now that some ideologically inspired sociopathology is at work when the most heinous and vicious crimes are committed with such regularity within a group adhering to that ideology.

Nothing that I've read could be construed (at least by me), to indicate the actions of Hasan were "insane" or that he was the victim of empire, or that we should invent other excuses to provide an allowance for mass murder. In fact, his gun collecting and the distribution of his belongings prior to his mass murder indicated a rational, reasoned thought process as much as planning a mass murder can be described as rational and reasoned.

History shows repeatedly that otherwise "pious Moslems" seem to have no trouble at all slaughtering infidels (and other moslems) as if they were cattle. This is simply because they have already defined the infidels and those other moslems as the chief cause of islam's ills.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> I think its both dangerous and immoral to make excuses for the acts of a mass murder with slogans and cliches&#8217;.
> 
> It should be clear by now that some ideologically inspired sociopathology is at work when the most heinous and vicious crimes are committed with such regularity within a group adhering to that ideology.
> 
> Nothing that I've read could be construed (at least by me), to indicate the actions of Hasan were "insane" or that he was &#8220;the victim of empire&#8221;, or that we should invent other excuses to provide an allowance for mass murder. In fact, his gun collecting and the distribution of his belongings prior to his mass murder indicated a rational, reasoned thought process&#8230; as much as planning a mass murder can be described as rational and reasoned.
> 
> History shows repeatedly that otherwise "pious Moslems" seem to have no trouble at all slaughtering infidels (and other moslems) as if they were cattle. This is simply because they have already defined the infidels and those other moslems as the chief cause of islam's ills.


Unfortunately, that's not the case for Hassan.  

All he wanted, was to be out of the army.


----------



## Hollie

loinboy said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think its both dangerous and immoral to make excuses for the acts of a mass murder with slogans and cliches.
> 
> It should be clear by now that some ideologically inspired sociopathology is at work when the most heinous and vicious crimes are committed with such regularity within a group adhering to that ideology.
> 
> Nothing that I've read could be construed (at least by me), to indicate the actions of Hasan were "insane" or that he was the victim of empire, or that we should invent other excuses to provide an allowance for mass murder. In fact, his gun collecting and the distribution of his belongings prior to his mass murder indicated a rational, reasoned thought process as much as planning a mass murder can be described as rational and reasoned.
> 
> History shows repeatedly that otherwise "pious Moslems" seem to have no trouble at all slaughtering infidels (and other moslems) as if they were cattle. This is simply because they have already defined the infidels and those other moslems as the chief cause of islam's ills.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, that's not the case for Hassan.
> 
> All he wanted, was to be out of the army.
Click to expand...


Oh, I see. So you're providing an allowance for his mass murder.

Of course, your position is in accordance many Islamic terrorist organizations and their enablers and apologists. As it relates to the murder of civilians for example, CAIR's position on terrorism is complicated by its ambiguous stance on innocent civilians - a notion that allows for an interpretation that all Israelis are a legitimate target because of Israel's mandatory military service. This provides an allowance for Islamic terrorists to mass murder civilians in a pizza shop. It's a twisted and immoral nature that most of the world has condemned as just that  twisted and immoral.

You take an oath of loyalty and commitment to service when you join the military. Deciding at a later date (that decision either being prompted by cowardice or other conviction) that you would choose to let others honor a commitment that you prefer not to, is not grounds for mass murder as a way to void the agreement you signed.


----------



## Roudy

loinboy said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think its both dangerous and immoral to make excuses for the acts of a mass murder with slogans and cliches&#8217;.
> 
> It should be clear by now that some ideologically inspired sociopathology is at work when the most heinous and vicious crimes are committed with such regularity within a group adhering to that ideology.
> 
> Nothing that I've read could be construed (at least by me), to indicate the actions of Hasan were "insane" or that he was &#8220;the victim of empire&#8221;, or that we should invent other excuses to provide an allowance for mass murder. In fact, his gun collecting and the distribution of his belongings prior to his mass murder indicated a rational, reasoned thought process&#8230; as much as planning a mass murder can be described as rational and reasoned.
> 
> History shows repeatedly that otherwise "pious Moslems" seem to have no trouble at all slaughtering infidels (and other moslems) as if they were cattle. This is simply because they have already defined the infidels and those other moslems as the chief cause of islam's ills.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, that's not the case for Hassan.
> 
> All he wanted, was to be out of the army.
Click to expand...

Yeah, poor guy.  That's all he wanted.  Quite a legitimate excuse to open fire  and massacre about 14 unarmed men and women during a military graduation ceremony.  

What was that you said?  His being a Jihadist Palestinian Muslim may, just may have had something to do with it?  Oh look, is that a plane in the sky or a meteor?!


----------



## Roudy

loinboy said:


> straight_ahead said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that's him.
> 
> I don't like Bill Clinton but this is documented history.  Not that facts or common sense would make any difference to anyone that supports the terrorists.
> 
> moslem vs. Christian
> moslem vs. Jew
> moslem vs. Hindu
> 
> Anyone notice a pattern here?
> 
> 
> 
> Except that muslim's are responsible for only 6% of all terrorist acts in the US since 1980.
Click to expand...

Gee somehow those are not the percentages reflected on the FBI's most wanted terrorist list? Did you pull these stats out of uranus?


----------



## georgephillip

Hollie said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah! In memorable words of Gabriel Schoenfeld "The FBI's failure to see clear warning signs in the Fort Hood case revives the question of whether it's up to the task of countering terrorism. Before his murderous rampage, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan was exchanging e-mails with a radical Yemen-based imam with ties to the 9/11 hijackers. FBI investigators examined intercepts - and, finding that their "content was explainable by his research," concluded "that Hasan was not involved in terrorist activities or terrorist planning." It did not warn the Army of the potential menace."
> 
> 
> 
> Had the US chosen NOT to invade and occupy two countries which had little to do with the 911 hijackers, murdering, maiming, displacing, and incarcerating millions of innocent Muslims along the way, Major Hasan would've had no reason to turn to terror. If one-third of the citizens of 1948 Palestine had chosen NOT to inflict a Jewish state on their country, 911 itself becomes less likely.
> 
> *Say your sorry. drivel!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think its both dangerous and immoral to make excuses for the acts of a mass murder with slogans and cliches.
> 
> It should be clear by now that some ideologically inspired sociopathology is at work when the most heinous and vicious crimes are committed with such regularity within a group adhering to that ideology.
> 
> Nothing that I've read could be construed (at least by me), to indicate the actions of Hasan were "insane" or that he was the victim of empire, or that we should invent other excuses to provide an allowance for mass murder. In fact, his gun collecting and the distribution of his belongings prior to his mass murder indicated a rational, reasoned thought process as much as planning a mass murder can be described as rational and reasoned.
> 
> History shows repeatedly that otherwise "pious Moslems" seem to have no trouble at all slaughtering infidels (and other moslems) as if they were cattle. This is simply because they have already defined the infidels and those other moslems as the chief cause of islam's ills.
Click to expand...

The last 67 years of history shows repeatedly how Christians, pious and otherwise, are willing to slaughter thousands of children on the opposite side of the planet for a paycheck. Major Hasan committed his crime against soldiers which makes it slightly less reprehensible than American crimes committed during Desert Storm, a time period Hasan earned medals in.

"Case in point. Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime. 

"*Hard then to explain the 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people*. 

"An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled 'Strategic Attack,' chillingly explains: 'The electrical attacks proved extremely effective ... The loss of electricity shut down the capital's water treatment plants and led to a public health crisis from raw sewage dumped in the Tigris River.' 

"A second US Defense Intelligence Agency document, 1991's 'Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities,' predicted how sanctions would then be used to prevent Iraq from getting the equipment and chemicals necessary for water purification, which would result in 'a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population' leading to 'increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.'"

46,900 Iraqi children died due to US bombs and UN sanctions.
Hasan's slaughter seems almost charitable by comparison.

Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq


----------



## Hollie

georgephillip said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had the US chosen NOT to invade and occupy two countries which had little to do with the 911 hijackers, murdering, maiming, displacing, and incarcerating millions of innocent Muslims along the way, Major Hasan would've had no reason to turn to terror. If one-third of the citizens of 1948 Palestine had chosen NOT to inflict a Jewish state on their country, 911 itself becomes less likely.
> 
> *Say your sorry. drivel!*
> 
> 
> 
> I think its both dangerous and immoral to make excuses for the acts of a mass murder with slogans and cliches.
> 
> It should be clear by now that some ideologically inspired sociopathology is at work when the most heinous and vicious crimes are committed with such regularity within a group adhering to that ideology.
> 
> Nothing that I've read could be construed (at least by me), to indicate the actions of Hasan were "insane" or that he was the victim of empire, or that we should invent other excuses to provide an allowance for mass murder. In fact, his gun collecting and the distribution of his belongings prior to his mass murder indicated a rational, reasoned thought process as much as planning a mass murder can be described as rational and reasoned.
> 
> History shows repeatedly that otherwise "pious Moslems" seem to have no trouble at all slaughtering infidels (and other moslems) as if they were cattle. This is simply because they have already defined the infidels and those other moslems as the chief cause of islam's ills.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The last 67 years of history shows repeatedly how Christians, pious and otherwise, are willing to slaughter thousands of children on the opposite side of the planet for a paycheck. Major Hasan committed his crime against soldiers which makes it slightly less reprehensible than American crimes committed during Desert Storm, a time period Hasan earned medals in.
> 
> "Case in point. Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.
> 
> "*Hard then to explain the 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people*.
> 
> "An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled 'Strategic Attack,' chillingly explains: 'The electrical attacks proved extremely effective ... The loss of electricity shut down the capital's water treatment plants and led to a public health crisis from raw sewage dumped in the Tigris River.'
> 
> "A second US Defense Intelligence Agency document, 1991's 'Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities,' predicted how sanctions would then be used to prevent Iraq from getting the equipment and chemicals necessary for water purification, which would result in 'a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population' leading to 'increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.'"
> 
> 46,900 Iraqi children died due to US bombs and UN sanctions.
> Hasan's slaughter seems almost charitable by comparison.
> 
> Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq
Click to expand...

"Hasan's slaughter seems almost charitable by comparison."

It's too bad for you that Hasan didn't kill more people. You could feel better about yourself.


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had the US chosen NOT to invade and occupy two countries which had little to do with the 911 hijackers, murdering, maiming, displacing, and incarcerating millions of innocent Muslims along the way, Major Hasan would've had no reason to turn to terror. If one-third of the citizens of 1948 Palestine had chosen NOT to inflict a Jewish state on their country, 911 itself becomes less likely.
> 
> *Say your sorry. drivel!*
> 
> 
> 
> I think its both dangerous and immoral to make excuses for the acts of a mass murder with slogans and cliches.
> 
> It should be clear by now that some ideologically inspired sociopathology is at work when the most heinous and vicious crimes are committed with such regularity within a group adhering to that ideology.
> 
> Nothing that I've read could be construed (at least by me), to indicate the actions of Hasan were "insane" or that he was the victim of empire, or that we should invent other excuses to provide an allowance for mass murder. In fact, his gun collecting and the distribution of his belongings prior to his mass murder indicated a rational, reasoned thought process as much as planning a mass murder can be described as rational and reasoned.
> 
> History shows repeatedly that otherwise "pious Moslems" seem to have no trouble at all slaughtering infidels (and other moslems) as if they were cattle. This is simply because they have already defined the infidels and those other moslems as the chief cause of islam's ills.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The last 67 years of history shows repeatedly how Christians, pious and otherwise, are willing to slaughter thousands of children on the opposite side of the planet for a paycheck. Major Hasan committed his crime against soldiers which makes it slightly less reprehensible than American crimes committed during Desert Storm, a time period Hasan earned medals in.
> 
> "Case in point. Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.
> 
> "*Hard then to explain the 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people*.
> 
> "An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled 'Strategic Attack,' chillingly explains: 'The electrical attacks proved extremely effective ... The loss of electricity shut down the capital's water treatment plants and led to a public health crisis from raw sewage dumped in the Tigris River.'
> 
> "A second US Defense Intelligence Agency document, 1991's 'Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities,' predicted how sanctions would then be used to prevent Iraq from getting the equipment and chemicals necessary for water purification, which would result in 'a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population' leading to 'increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.'"
> 
> 46,900 Iraqi children died due to US bombs and UN sanctions.
> Hasan's slaughter seems almost charitable by comparison.
> 
> Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq
Click to expand...

Your last sentence proves what I said earlier about apologizing for Muslim violence. Now you are under suspicion, Benedict.


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had the US chosen NOT to invade and occupy two countries which had little to do with the 911 hijackers, murdering, maiming, displacing, and incarcerating millions of innocent Muslims along the way, Major Hasan would've had no reason to turn to terror. If one-third of the citizens of 1948 Palestine had chosen NOT to inflict a Jewish state on their country, 911 itself becomes less likely.
> 
> *Say your sorry. drivel!*
> 
> 
> 
> I think its both dangerous and immoral to make excuses for the acts of a mass murder with slogans and cliches.
> 
> It should be clear by now that some ideologically inspired sociopathology is at work when the most heinous and vicious crimes are committed with such regularity within a group adhering to that ideology.
> 
> Nothing that I've read could be construed (at least by me), to indicate the actions of Hasan were "insane" or that he was the victim of empire, or that we should invent other excuses to provide an allowance for mass murder. In fact, his gun collecting and the distribution of his belongings prior to his mass murder indicated a rational, reasoned thought process as much as planning a mass murder can be described as rational and reasoned.
> 
> History shows repeatedly that otherwise "pious Moslems" seem to have no trouble at all slaughtering infidels (and other moslems) as if they were cattle. This is simply because they have already defined the infidels and those other moslems as the chief cause of islam's ills.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The last 67 years of history shows repeatedly how Christians, pious and otherwise, are willing to slaughter thousands of children on the opposite side of the planet for a paycheck. Major Hasan committed his crime against soldiers which makes it slightly less reprehensible than American crimes committed during Desert Storm, a time period Hasan earned medals in.
> 
> "Case in point. Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.
> 
> "*Hard then to explain the 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people*.
> 
> "An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled 'Strategic Attack,' chillingly explains: 'The electrical attacks proved extremely effective ... The loss of electricity shut down the capital's water treatment plants and led to a public health crisis from raw sewage dumped in the Tigris River.'
> 
> "A second US Defense Intelligence Agency document, 1991's 'Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities,' predicted how sanctions would then be used to prevent Iraq from getting the equipment and chemicals necessary for water purification, which would result in 'a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population' leading to 'increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.'"
> 
> 46,900 Iraqi children died due to US bombs and UN sanctions.
> Hasan's slaughter seems almost charitable by comparison.
> 
> Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq
Click to expand...


If you open your link you find an article from someone named Heather Wokusch at something called Dissident Voice. Her complaint, that the US Air Force destroyed Iraq's electric grid in an effort to deprive Iraqis of fresh drinking water, is based on what she claims to be an internal Air Force document but when you click the link provided (http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/pubs/speclist.asp?puborg=AFDC&series=dd), you find nothing at all.


----------



## SAYIT

Hollie said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah! In memorable words of Gabriel Schoenfeld "The FBI's failure to see clear warning signs in the Fort Hood case revives the question of whether it's up to the task of countering terrorism. Before his murderous rampage, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan was exchanging e-mails with a radical Yemen-based imam with ties to the 9/11 hijackers. FBI investigators examined intercepts - and, finding that their "content was explainable by his research," concluded "that Hasan was not involved in terrorist activities or terrorist planning." It did not warn the Army of the potential menace."
> 
> 
> 
> Had the US chosen NOT to invade and occupy two countries which had little to do with the 911 hijackers, murdering, maiming, displacing, and incarcerating millions of innocent Muslims along the way, Major Hasan would've had no reason to turn to terror. If one-third of the citizens of 1948 Palestine had chosen NOT to inflict a Jewish state on their country, 911 itself becomes less likely.
> 
> *Say your sorry. drivel!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think its both dangerous and immoral to make excuses for the acts of a mass murder with slogans and cliches.
> 
> It should be clear by now that some ideologically inspired sociopathology is at work when the most heinous and vicious crimes are committed with such regularity within a group adhering to that ideology.
> 
> Nothing that I've read could be construed (at least by me), to indicate the actions of Hasan were "insane" or that he was the victim of empire, or that we should invent other excuses to provide an allowance for mass murder. In fact, his gun collecting and the distribution of his belongings prior to his mass murder indicated a rational, reasoned thought process as much as planning a mass murder can be described as rational and reasoned.
> 
> History shows repeatedly that otherwise "pious Moslems" seem to have no trouble at all slaughtering infidels (and other moslems) as if they were cattle. This is simply because they have already defined the infidels and those other moslems as the chief cause of islam's ills.
Click to expand...


It is clear that posters such as LoinCloth and GeorgePhilips are also guilty of making "excuses for the acts of a mass murder" by their Jihadist brethren.


----------



## Billo_Really

SAYIT said:


> It is clear that posters such as LoinCloth and GeorgePhilips are also guilty of making "excuses for the acts of a mass murder" by their Jihadist brethren.


How is recalling history in the context from which it occured, making excuses?

Care to explain that one?


----------



## georgephillip

Hollie said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think its both dangerous and immoral to make excuses for the acts of a mass murder with slogans and cliches.
> 
> It should be clear by now that some ideologically inspired sociopathology is at work when the most heinous and vicious crimes are committed with such regularity within a group adhering to that ideology.
> 
> Nothing that I've read could be construed (at least by me), to indicate the actions of Hasan were "insane" or that he was the victim of empire, or that we should invent other excuses to provide an allowance for mass murder. In fact, his gun collecting and the distribution of his belongings prior to his mass murder indicated a rational, reasoned thought process as much as planning a mass murder can be described as rational and reasoned.
> 
> History shows repeatedly that otherwise "pious Moslems" seem to have no trouble at all slaughtering infidels (and other moslems) as if they were cattle. This is simply because they have already defined the infidels and those other moslems as the chief cause of islam's ills.
> 
> 
> 
> The last 67 years of history shows repeatedly how Christians, pious and otherwise, are willing to slaughter thousands of children on the opposite side of the planet for a paycheck. Major Hasan committed his crime against soldiers which makes it slightly less reprehensible than American crimes committed during Desert Storm, a time period Hasan earned medals in.
> 
> "Case in point. Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.
> 
> "*Hard then to explain the 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people*.
> 
> "An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled 'Strategic Attack,' chillingly explains: 'The electrical attacks proved extremely effective ... The loss of electricity shut down the capital's water treatment plants and led to a public health crisis from raw sewage dumped in the Tigris River.'
> 
> "A second US Defense Intelligence Agency document, 1991's 'Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities,' predicted how sanctions would then be used to prevent Iraq from getting the equipment and chemicals necessary for water purification, which would result in 'a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population' leading to 'increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.'"
> 
> 46,900 Iraqi children died due to US bombs and UN sanctions.
> Hasan's slaughter seems almost charitable by comparison.
> 
> Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Hasan's slaughter seems almost charitable by comparison."
> 
> It's too bad for you that Hasan didn't kill more people. You could feel better about yourself.
Click to expand...

Nidal Malik Hasan was born in Virginia in 1970 to parents who fled the Israeli conquest and illegal occupation of their Palestinian town, Al-Bireh, in 1967. I can mourn Hasan's 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted murder without excusing how the US deliberately targeted the electrical power grids of Iraq in 1991. 

I don't see how it's possible to feel bad about the former without feeling worse about the latter.


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think its both dangerous and immoral to make excuses for the acts of a mass murder with slogans and cliches.
> 
> It should be clear by now that some ideologically inspired sociopathology is at work when the most heinous and vicious crimes are committed with such regularity within a group adhering to that ideology.
> 
> Nothing that I've read could be construed (at least by me), to indicate the actions of Hasan were "insane" or that he was the victim of empire, or that we should invent other excuses to provide an allowance for mass murder. In fact, his gun collecting and the distribution of his belongings prior to his mass murder indicated a rational, reasoned thought process as much as planning a mass murder can be described as rational and reasoned.
> 
> History shows repeatedly that otherwise "pious Moslems" seem to have no trouble at all slaughtering infidels (and other moslems) as if they were cattle. This is simply because they have already defined the infidels and those other moslems as the chief cause of islam's ills.
> 
> 
> 
> The last 67 years of history shows repeatedly how Christians, pious and otherwise, are willing to slaughter thousands of children on the opposite side of the planet for a paycheck. Major Hasan committed his crime against soldiers which makes it slightly less reprehensible than American crimes committed during Desert Storm, a time period Hasan earned medals in.
> 
> "Case in point. Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.
> 
> "*Hard then to explain the 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people*.
> 
> "An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled 'Strategic Attack,' chillingly explains: 'The electrical attacks proved extremely effective ... The loss of electricity shut down the capital's water treatment plants and led to a public health crisis from raw sewage dumped in the Tigris River.'
> 
> "A second US Defense Intelligence Agency document, 1991's 'Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities,' predicted how sanctions would then be used to prevent Iraq from getting the equipment and chemicals necessary for water purification, which would result in 'a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population' leading to 'increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.'"
> 
> 46,900 Iraqi children died due to US bombs and UN sanctions.
> Hasan's slaughter seems almost charitable by comparison.
> 
> Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your last sentence proves what I said earlier about apologizing for Muslim violence. Now you are under suspicion, Benedict.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking Benedict was a better American than Dick the Draft Dodger, Hoss.

"Born in Connecticut, Arnold was a merchant operating ships on the Atlantic Ocean when the war broke out in 1775. After joining the growing army outside Boston, he distinguished himself through acts of intelligence and bravery..."

"Despite Arnold's successes, he was passed over for promotion by the Continental Congress while other officers claimed credit for some of his accomplishments.[3] 

"Adversaries in military and political circles brought charges of corruption or other malfeasance, but most often he was acquitted in formal inquiries. 

"Congress investigated his accounts and found he was indebted to Congress after spending much of his own money on the war effort. Frustrated and bitter, Arnold decided to change sides in 1779, and opened secret negotiations with the British."

Benedict Arnold - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How many $ do you suppose the Draft Dodger has earned from the deaths of those 46,900 Iraqi children?


----------



## irosie91

do you have the names of each of the children who supposedly died because of  SANCTIONS against the noble government of  Saddam Hussein?     Of what did they die?     where they executed?


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think its both dangerous and immoral to make excuses for the acts of a mass murder with slogans and cliches&#8217;.
> 
> It should be clear by now that some ideologically inspired sociopathology is at work when the most heinous and vicious crimes are committed with such regularity within a group adhering to that ideology.
> 
> Nothing that I've read could be construed (at least by me), to indicate the actions of Hasan were "insane" or that he was &#8220;the victim of empire&#8221;, or that we should invent other excuses to provide an allowance for mass murder. In fact, his gun collecting and the distribution of his belongings prior to his mass murder indicated a rational, reasoned thought process&#8230; as much as planning a mass murder can be described as rational and reasoned.
> 
> History shows repeatedly that otherwise "pious Moslems" seem to have no trouble at all slaughtering infidels (and other moslems) as if they were cattle. This is simply because they have already defined the infidels and those other moslems as the chief cause of islam's ills.
> 
> 
> 
> The last 67 years of history shows repeatedly how Christians, pious and otherwise, are willing to slaughter thousands of children on the opposite side of the planet for a paycheck. Major Hasan committed his crime against soldiers which makes it slightly less reprehensible than American crimes committed during Desert Storm, a time period Hasan earned medals in.
> 
> "Case in point. Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.
> 
> "*Hard then to explain the 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people*.
> 
> "An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled 'Strategic Attack,' chillingly explains: 'The electrical attacks proved extremely effective ... The loss of electricity shut down the capital's water treatment plants and led to a public health crisis from raw sewage dumped in the Tigris River.'
> 
> "A second US Defense Intelligence Agency document, 1991's 'Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities,' predicted how sanctions would then be used to prevent Iraq from getting the equipment and chemicals necessary for water purification, which would result in 'a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population' leading to 'increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.'"
> 
> 46,900 Iraqi children died due to US bombs and UN sanctions.
> Hasan's slaughter seems almost charitable by comparison.
> 
> Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you open your link you find an article from someone named Heather Wokusch at something called Dissident Voice. Her complaint, that the US Air Force destroyed Iraq's electric grid in an effort to deprive Iraqis of fresh drinking water, is based on what she claims to be an internal Air Force document but when you click the link provided (http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/pubs/speclist.asp?puborg=AFDC&series=dd), you find nothing at all.
Click to expand...

Clicking on Heather's "Strategic Attack" link leads to an "Air Force e-Publishing" page with the following apology:

"Sorry, the page you tried to reach does not exist

"*You may have used an outdated link* or you may have typed the address (URL) incorrectly.
To find what you are looking for please use..."

http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/pubs/speclist.asp?puborg=AFDC&series=dd

No apologies for the 49,600 Iraqi children that the NEJM claims were victims of the USAF Strategic Attack and ensuing trade sanctions.


----------



## georgephillip

loinboy said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is clear that posters such as LoinCloth and GeorgePhilips are also guilty of making "excuses for the acts of a mass murder" by their Jihadist brethren.
> 
> 
> 
> How is recalling history in the context from which it occured, making excuses?
> 
> Care to explain that one?
Click to expand...

Some of these damn conservatives have real problems with cause and effect.
The greatest purveyor of violence on earth hasn't changed its stripes since MLK died, and yet, conservatives want to continue blaming the victims of US aggression.

Maybe they should stop making excuses for the War Racket?


----------



## georgephillip

irosie91 said:


> do you have the names of each of the children who supposedly died because of  SANCTIONS against the noble government of  Saddam Hussein?     Of what did they die?     where they executed?


Why are you asking for the childrens' names, thinking of sending sympathy cards?
They died from the effects of drinking contaminated water after US bombs destroyed the electrical grid powering Iraq's water treatment plants. The SANCTIONS only made Saddam more powerful, if not less noble. Did Saddam execute children? I don't know, do you? I'm pretty sure he wasn't blowing up electrical grids on the opposite side of the planet for WAR PROFIT$.


----------



## SAYIT

loinboy said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is clear that posters such as LoinCloth and GeorgePhilips are also guilty of making "excuses for the acts of a mass murder" by their Jihadist brethren.
> 
> 
> 
> How is recalling history in the context from which it occured, making excuses?
> 
> Care to explain that one?
Click to expand...


Sure Princess. 
Your process is a lame attempt at "moral equivalence."
America got stuck with the job of planetary policeman because it's better to nip the troubles in the bud than let it fester and explode (see: Darfur, Bosnia and Herzegovina, etc., etc., etc.). 
It ain't pretty and it ain't fun and it's a dirty job and sometimes things just don't go as planned but somebody here has to be the adult.
Clearly you are incapable.


----------



## SAYIT

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think its both dangerous and immoral to make excuses for the acts of a mass murder with slogans and cliches.
> 
> It should be clear by now that some ideologically inspired sociopathology is at work when the most heinous and vicious crimes are committed with such regularity within a group adhering to that ideology.
> 
> Nothing that I've read could be construed (at least by me), to indicate the actions of Hasan were "insane" or that he was the victim of empire, or that we should invent other excuses to provide an allowance for mass murder. In fact, his gun collecting and the distribution of his belongings prior to his mass murder indicated a rational, reasoned thought process as much as planning a mass murder can be described as rational and reasoned.
> 
> History shows repeatedly that otherwise "pious Moslems" seem to have no trouble at all slaughtering infidels (and other moslems) as if they were cattle. This is simply because they have already defined the infidels and those other moslems as the chief cause of islam's ills.
> 
> 
> 
> The last 67 years of history shows repeatedly how Christians, pious and otherwise, are willing to slaughter thousands of children on the opposite side of the planet for a paycheck. Major Hasan committed his crime against soldiers which makes it slightly less reprehensible than American crimes committed during Desert Storm, a time period Hasan earned medals in.
> 
> "Case in point. Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.
> 
> "*Hard then to explain the 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people*.
> 
> "An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled 'Strategic Attack,' chillingly explains: 'The electrical attacks proved extremely effective ... The loss of electricity shut down the capital's water treatment plants and led to a public health crisis from raw sewage dumped in the Tigris River.'
> 
> "A second US Defense Intelligence Agency document, 1991's 'Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities,' predicted how sanctions would then be used to prevent Iraq from getting the equipment and chemicals necessary for water purification, which would result in 'a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population' leading to 'increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.'"
> 
> 46,900 Iraqi children died due to US bombs and UN sanctions.
> Hasan's slaughter seems almost charitable by comparison.
> 
> Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your last sentence proves what I said earlier about apologizing for Muslim violence. Now you are under suspicion, Benedict.
Click to expand...


Not suspicion, convicted by his own words. I am amazed and disappointed at how many people, many of whom benefit from the freedoms and opportunities this country provides to so many, can be so one-sided when judging how we provide and protect them.
I am also amazed - but not surprised - that many of those who regularly excoriate America are also anti-Israel/anti-Jew. It's just how they roll.


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last 67 years of history shows repeatedly how Christians, pious and otherwise, are willing to slaughter thousands of children on the opposite side of the planet for a paycheck. Major Hasan committed his crime against soldiers which makes it slightly less reprehensible than American crimes committed during Desert Storm, a time period Hasan earned medals in.
> 
> "Case in point. Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.
> 
> "*Hard then to explain the 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people*.
> 
> "An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled 'Strategic Attack,' chillingly explains: 'The electrical attacks proved extremely effective ... The loss of electricity shut down the capital's water treatment plants and led to a public health crisis from raw sewage dumped in the Tigris River.'
> 
> "A second US Defense Intelligence Agency document, 1991's 'Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities,' predicted how sanctions would then be used to prevent Iraq from getting the equipment and chemicals necessary for water purification, which would result in 'a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population' leading to 'increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.'"
> 
> 46,900 Iraqi children died due to US bombs and UN sanctions.
> Hasan's slaughter seems almost charitable by comparison.
> 
> Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq
> 
> 
> 
> "Hasan's slaughter seems almost charitable by comparison."
> 
> It's too bad for you that Hasan didn't kill more people. You could feel better about yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nidal Malik Hasan was born in Virginia in 1970 to parents who fled the Israeli conquest and illegal occupation of their Palestinian town, Al-Bireh, in 1967. I can mourn Hasan's 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted murder without excusing how the US deliberately targeted the electrical power grids of Iraq in 1991.
> 
> I don't see how it's possible to feel bad about the former without feeling worse about the latter.
Click to expand...


That's because you see the world through the "America and Americans are evil" prism.
As for your willingness to "mourn Hasan's 13 counts of premeditated murder," you must know that a normal person would mourn the victims of that slaughter, not the charges against the perp.
Finally, do you have a working link to the Air Force document which _you_ claimed proves they deliberately targeted that electric grid to "deprive the Iraqis of fresh water?"
The link in your article doen't work.


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last 67 years of history shows repeatedly how Christians, pious and otherwise, are willing to slaughter thousands of children on the opposite side of the planet for a paycheck. Major Hasan committed his crime against soldiers which makes it slightly less reprehensible than American crimes committed during Desert Storm, a time period Hasan earned medals in.
> 
> "Case in point. Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.
> 
> "*Hard then to explain the 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people*.
> 
> "An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled 'Strategic Attack,' chillingly explains: 'The electrical attacks proved extremely effective ... The loss of electricity shut down the capital's water treatment plants and led to a public health crisis from raw sewage dumped in the Tigris River.'
> 
> "A second US Defense Intelligence Agency document, 1991's 'Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities,' predicted how sanctions would then be used to prevent Iraq from getting the equipment and chemicals necessary for water purification, which would result in 'a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population' leading to 'increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.'"
> 
> 46,900 Iraqi children died due to US bombs and UN sanctions.
> Hasan's slaughter seems almost charitable by comparison.
> 
> Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you open your link you find an article from someone named Heather Wokusch at something called Dissident Voice. Her complaint, that the US Air Force destroyed Iraq's electric grid in an effort to deprive Iraqis of fresh drinking water, is based on what she claims to be an internal Air Force document but when you click the link provided (http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/pubs/speclist.asp?puborg=AFDC&series=dd), you find nothing at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Clicking on Heather's "Strategic Attack" link leads to an "Air Force e-Publishing" page with the following apology:
> 
> "Sorry, the page you tried to reach does not exist
> 
> "*You may have used an outdated link* or you may have typed the address (URL) incorrectly.
> To find what you are looking for please use..."
> 
> http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/pubs/speclist.asp?puborg=AFDC&series=dd
> 
> No apologies for the 49,600 Iraqi children that the NEJM claims were victims of the USAF Strategic Attack and ensuing trade sanctions.
Click to expand...


That link doesn't work, either. Have you read the Air Force document? Could you post a working link? Thanks.


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is clear that posters such as LoinCloth and GeorgePhilips are also guilty of making "excuses for the acts of a mass murder" by their Jihadist brethren.
> 
> 
> 
> How is recalling history in the context from which it occured, making excuses?
> 
> Care to explain that one?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Some of these damn conservatives have real problems with cause and effect.
> The greatest purveyor of violence on earth hasn't changed its stripes since MLK died...
Click to expand...


Yeah, ok. 
Your hate for the US has been duly noted. I wonder which came first: Your hate for America or your hate for Israel?


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> do you have the names of each of the children who supposedly died because of  SANCTIONS against the noble government of  Saddam Hussein?     Of what did they die?     where they executed?
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you asking for the childrens' names, thinking of sending sympathy cards?
> They died from the effects of drinking contaminated water ...
Click to expand...


Could you offer some support for your claim that over 46,000 Iraqi children died as a direct result of drinking dirty water? It seems to me your hate for this country should motivate you to move somewhere you might feel more comfortable. There are millions who would gladly trade places with you.


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last 67 years of history shows repeatedly how Christians, pious and otherwise, are willing to slaughter thousands of children on the opposite side of the planet for a paycheck. Major Hasan committed his crime against soldiers which makes it slightly less reprehensible than American crimes committed during Desert Storm, a time period Hasan earned medals in.
> 
> "Case in point. Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.
> 
> "*Hard then to explain the 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people*.
> 
> "An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled 'Strategic Attack,' chillingly explains: 'The electrical attacks proved extremely effective ... The loss of electricity shut down the capital's water treatment plants and led to a public health crisis from raw sewage dumped in the Tigris River.'
> 
> "A second US Defense Intelligence Agency document, 1991's 'Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities,' predicted how sanctions would then be used to prevent Iraq from getting the equipment and chemicals necessary for water purification, which would result in 'a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population' leading to 'increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.'"
> 
> 46,900 Iraqi children died due to US bombs and UN sanctions.
> Hasan's slaughter seems almost charitable by comparison.
> 
> Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq
> 
> 
> 
> Your last sentence proves what I said earlier about apologizing for Muslim violence. Now you are under suspicion, Benedict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm thinking Benedict was a better American than Dick the Draft Dodger, Hoss.
> 
> "Born in Connecticut, Arnold was a merchant operating ships on the Atlantic Ocean when the war broke out in 1775. After joining the growing army outside Boston, he distinguished himself through acts of intelligence and bravery..."
> 
> "Despite Arnold's successes, he was passed over for promotion by the Continental Congress while other officers claimed credit for some of his accomplishments.[3]
> 
> "Adversaries in military and political circles brought charges of corruption or other malfeasance, but most often he was acquitted in formal inquiries.
> 
> "Congress investigated his accounts and found he was indebted to Congress after spending much of his own money on the war effort. Frustrated and bitter, Arnold decided to change sides in 1779, and opened secret negotiations with the British."
> 
> Benedict Arnold - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> How many $ do you suppose the Draft Dodger has earned from the deaths of those 46,900 Iraqi children?
Click to expand...


While historians do indeed quibble over Arnold's legacy, the word "Benedict" has long meant "traitor" in this country. Are you new here?


----------



## Theseus

For one Israel has the right to be a state mainly because of its historical value. Israel was originally the holy land of the Hebrews. And what other reason would it need. Why shouldn't it be a state is one thing I would like to hear from somebody?


----------



## Billo_Really

Theseus said:


> For one Israel has the right to be a state mainly because of its historical value. Israel was originally the holy land of the Hebrews. And what other reason would it need. Why shouldn't it be a state is one thing I would like to hear from somebody?


States don't have rights, people do!

And the Pals have just as much right to have a nation of their own.


----------



## Billo_Really

SAYIT said:


> Yeah, ok.
> Your hate for the US has been duly noted. I wonder which came first: Your hate for America or your hate for Israel?


Explain why I would hate the US and Israel?


----------



## Billo_Really

SAYIT said:


> Could you offer some support for your claim that over 46,000 Iraqi children died as a direct result of drinking dirty water? It seems to me your hate for this country should motivate you to move somewhere you might feel more comfortable. There are millions who would gladly trade places with you.


It's interesting that everyone you disagree with, just happens to "hate" something.

How convenient!


----------



## SAYIT

loinboy said:


> Theseus said:
> 
> 
> 
> For one Israel has the right to be a state mainly because of its historical value. Israel was originally the holy land of the Hebrews. And what other reason would it need. Why shouldn't it be a state is one thing I would like to hear from somebody?
> 
> 
> 
> States don't have rights, people do!
> 
> And the Pals have just as much right to have a nation of their own.
Click to expand...


You know, UN 181 offered the "Pals" the same opportunity for UN membership and international recognition that it offered the soon-to-be Israelis. Had the Arabs accepted and established their own state as the Israelis did in 1948 - rather than violently reject both UN 181 and Israel's existence - they would be celebrating their 64th independence day right about now.
"The Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity" - Abba Eban


----------



## SAYIT

From: GeorgePhillip
Some of these damn conservatives have real problems with cause and effect.
The greatest purveyor of violence on earth hasn't changed its stripes since MLK died...



loinboy said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, ok.
> Your hate for the US has been duly noted. I wonder which came first: Your hate for America or your hate for Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> Explain why I would hate the US and Israel?
Click to expand...


My question was obviously directed at GeorgePhillip but you can play too:
Why ask _me_ to explain _your_ hate, Princess? I suggested before that you ask yourself why you hate and in the event that you get an answer, please share it with this board.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Thank you.


----------



## SAYIT

loinboy said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could you offer some support for your claim that over 46,000 Iraqi children died as a direct result of drinking dirty water? It seems to me your hate for this country should motivate you to move somewhere you might feel more comfortable. There are millions who would gladly trade places with you.
> 
> 
> 
> It's interesting that everyone you disagree with, just happens to "hate" something.
> 
> How convenient!
Click to expand...


Woo ... can't get nothing by you, Princess.
Do you think it has something to do with the fact that I confront the haters on this board?


----------



## Theseus

And those people have the right to name their home a state.


----------



## Billo_Really

SAYIT said:


> You know, UN 181 offered the "Pals" the same opportunity for UN membership and international recognition that it offered the soon-to-be Israelis. Had the Arabs accepted and established their own state as the Israelis did in 1948 - rather than violently reject both UN 181 and Israel's existence - they would be celebrating their 64th independence day right about now.
> "The Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity" - Abba Eban


  What arab is going to consider (or agree to) the confiscation of their property, as an "opportunity"?



> _*land ownership statistics from 1945 showed that Arabs owned more land than Jews in every single district of Palestine*, including Jaffa, where Arabs owned 47 percent of the land while Jews owned 39 percent  and Jaffa boasted the highest percentage of Jewish-owned land of any district. In other districts, Arabs owned an even larger portion of the land. At the extreme other end, for instance, in Ramallah, Arabs owned 99 percent of the land.* In the whole of Palestine, Arabs owned 85 percent of the land, while Jews owned less than 7 percent, which remained the case up until the time of Israels creation.*
> 
> Yet, despite these facts,* the U.N. partition recommendation had called for more than half of the land of Palestine to be given to the Zionists for their Jewish State. *The truth is that no Arab could be reasonably expected to accept such an unjust proposal. For political commentators today to describe the Arabs refusal to accept a recommendation that their land be taken away from them, premised upon the explicit rejection of their right to self-determination, as *a missed opportunity represents either an astounding ignorance of the roots of the conflict or an unwillingness to look honestly at its history*._


That was no "opportunity" for arabs.


----------



## Billo_Really

SAYIT said:


> Woo ... can't get nothing by you, Princess.
> Do you think it has something to do with the fact that I confront the haters on this board?


You strawman people you call haters, while never explaining why would they hate.  If you can't answer that question, then these are just baseless accusations completely detached from reality.


----------



## Billo_Really

SAYIT said:


> My question was obviously directed at GeorgePhillip but you can play too:


Fair enough.  Explain why he would hate the US.




SAYIT said:


> Why ask _me_ to explain _your_ hate, Princess?


That's not my question.  I asking you to explain why "you think" I would hate the US?  Or Israel? Or the jews?  This is what you are claiming.  I want to know what were the premises that led you to those conclusions.  The question is not about me, it's about you.  Are you going to answer the question?


----------



## SAYIT

loinboy said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Woo ... can't get nothing by you, Princess.
> Do you think it has something to do with the fact that I confront the haters on this board?
> 
> 
> 
> You strawman people you call haters, while never explaining why would they hate.  If you can't answer that question, then these are just baseless accusations completely detached from reality.
Click to expand...


How convenient for you! 
Since I have no idea which of the infinite reasons to hate blow your hair back I must be detached from reality. 
Yeah, that makes sense!


----------



## SAYIT

loinboy said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> My question was obviously directed at GeorgePhillip but you can play too:
> 
> 
> 
> Fair enough.  Explain why he would hate the US.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why ask _me_ to explain _your_ hate, Princess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not my question.  I asking you to explain why "you think" I would hate the US?  Or Israel? Or the jews?  This is what you are claiming.  I want to know what were the premises that led you to those conclusions.  The question is not about me, it's about you.  Are you going to answer the question?
Click to expand...


Read my lips: I am not one of the elves running around in your head. Only they and you know why you hate. Maybe you could get one of them to tell you why.


----------



## Hossfly

loinboy said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> My question was obviously directed at GeorgePhillip but you can play too:
> 
> 
> 
> Fair enough.  Explain why he would hate the US.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why ask _me_ to explain _your_ hate, Princess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not my question.  I asking you to explain why "you think" I would hate the US?  Or Israel? Or the jews?  This is what you are claiming.  I want to know what were the premises that led you to those conclusions.  The question is not about me, it's about you.  Are you going to answer the question?
Click to expand...

People assume by reading your posts that you are a misanthropist. And they are right!


----------



## Billo_Really

Hossfly said:


> People assume by reading your posts that you are a misanthropist. And they are right!


How could they be right when I have just as many posts not hating people?


----------



## Billo_Really

SAYIT said:


> How convenient for you!
> Since I have no idea which of the infinite reasons to hate blow your hair back I must be detached from reality.
> Yeah, that makes sense!


You claimed I hate certain groups or people, you must have a reason for saying that.  Well, what is that reason?


----------



## Billo_Really

SAYIT said:


> Read my lips: I am not one of the elves running around in your head. Only they and you know why you hate. Maybe you could get one of them to tell you why.


Get this through your fucking head, I don't hate these people or groups. You're the one claiming I hate, explain why?  I'll tell you why you can't explain it!  Because your full of shit!  You have no valid arguments to contest what I've said, so you try to make the issues about me.  You're nothing but a fuckin' liar, who say's things for no reason.  And I've just proven it, by giving you the opportunity to explain the reasons behind your claims, of which you've fallen flat on your face.


----------



## Hossfly

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> People assume by reading your posts that you are a misanthropist. And they are right!
> 
> 
> 
> How could they be right when I have just as many posts not hating people?
Click to expand...

Just Because. I think MJB has a doo wop about that. Maybe he'll spin it for you.


----------



## Hossfly

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> People assume by reading your posts that you are a misanthropist. And they are right!
> 
> 
> 
> How could they be right when I have just as many posts not hating people?
Click to expand...

Let's just say then you hate half the people on earth and mistrust the other half.There, you aren't a pure hater after all. Ain't that a relief?


----------



## SAYIT

loinboy said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> How convenient for you!
> Since I have no idea which of the infinite reasons to hate blow your hair back I must be detached from reality.
> Yeah, that makes sense!
> 
> 
> 
> You claimed I hate certain groups or people, you must have a reason for saying that.  Well, what is that reason?
Click to expand...


That's easy ...the crap you post. 
Now are you gonna answer my question? 
Why do you hate?


----------



## SAYIT

loinboy said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Read my lips: I am not one of the elves running around in your head. Only they and you know why you hate. Maybe you could get one of them to tell you why.
> 
> 
> 
> Get this through your fucking head, I don't hate these people or groups. You're the one claiming I hate, explain why?  I'll tell you why you can't explain it!  Because your full of shit!  You have no valid arguments to contest what I've said, so you try to make the issues about me.  You're nothing but a fuckin' liar, who say's things for no reason.  And I've just proven it, by giving you the opportunity to explain the reasons behind your claims, of which you've fallen flat on your face.
Click to expand...


Hey, I understand your embarassment. Nobody likes to be called out for being a mindless hater. I just call 'em like I see 'em and I see you clearly, Princess.


----------



## SAYIT

loinboy said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know, UN 181 offered the "Pals" the same opportunity for UN membership and international recognition that it offered the soon-to-be Israelis. Had the Arabs accepted and established their own state as the Israelis did in 1948 - rather than violently reject both UN 181 and Israel's existence - they would be celebrating their 64th independence day right about now.
> "The Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity" - Abba Eban
> 
> 
> 
> What arab is going to consider (or agree to) the confiscation of their property, as an "opportunity"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*land ownership statistics from 1945 showed that Arabs owned more land than Jews in every single district of Palestine*, including Jaffa, where Arabs owned 47 percent of the land while Jews owned 39 percent  and Jaffa boasted the highest percentage of Jewish-owned land of any district. In other districts, Arabs owned an even larger portion of the land. At the extreme other end, for instance, in Ramallah, Arabs owned 99 percent of the land.* In the whole of Palestine, Arabs owned 85 percent of the land, while Jews owned less than 7 percent, which remained the case up until the time of Israels creation.*
> 
> Yet, despite these facts,* the U.N. partition recommendation had called for more than half of the land of Palestine to be given to the Zionists for their Jewish State. *The truth is that no Arab could be reasonably expected to accept such an unjust proposal. For political commentators today to describe the Arabs refusal to accept a recommendation that their land be taken away from them, premised upon the explicit rejection of their right to self-determination, as *a missed opportunity represents either an astounding ignorance of the roots of the conflict or an unwillingness to look honestly at its history*._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was no "opportunity" for arabs.
Click to expand...


OK, so I've also read Hammond's opinion piece and noticed not a single citation for any of his "facts." Frankly, if a blogger - especially one who holds himself out to be an "investigative reporter" - doesn't support his conclusive "facts" with citations, he wasted his time writing at all. I'm certain Jeremy knew that when he blogged.


----------



## irosie91

SAYIT said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know, UN 181 offered the "Pals" the same opportunity for UN membership and international recognition that it offered the soon-to-be Israelis. Had the Arabs accepted and established their own state as the Israelis did in 1948 - rather than violently reject both UN 181 and Israel's existence - they would be celebrating their 64th independence day right about now.
> "The Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity" - Abba Eban
> 
> 
> 
> What arab is going to consider (or agree to) the confiscation of their property, as an "opportunity"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*land ownership statistics from 1945 showed that Arabs owned more land than Jews in every single district of Palestine*, including Jaffa, where Arabs owned 47 percent of the land while Jews owned 39 percent  and Jaffa boasted the highest percentage of Jewish-owned land of any district. In other districts, Arabs owned an even larger portion of the land. At the extreme other end, for instance, in Ramallah, Arabs owned 99 percent of
> the land.* In the whole of Palestine, Arabs owned 85 percent of the land, while Jews owned less than 7 percent, which remained the case up until the time of Israels creation.*
> 
> Yet, despite these facts,* the U.N. partition recommendation had called for more than half of the land of Palestine to be given to the Zionists for their Jewish State. *The truth is that no Arab could be reasonably expected to accept such an unjust proposal. For political
> commentators today to describe the Arabs refusal to accept a recommendation that their land be taken away from them, premised upon the explicit rejection of their right to self-determination, as *a missed opportunity represents either an astounding ignorance of the roots of the conflict or an unwillingness to look honestly at its history*._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was no "opportunity" for arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, so I've also read Hammond's opinion piece and noticed not a single citation for any of his "facts." Frankly, if a blogger - especially one who holds himself out to be an "investigative reporter" - doesn't support his conclusive "facts" with citations, he wasted his time writing at all. I'm certain Jeremy knew that when he blogged.
Click to expand...






The  FACTS cited by  islamo nazi propagandaists   regarding  "arab"  ownership of land is based on semantics         There is a true Fact----the true fact is that jews owned 7% of the land----by purchase------lands which jews were forced by massacres to abandon----which they also owned-----such as Hebron and Jerusalem were not included in the "jewish owned land"       ALL of the rest of the land was assigned some kind of ownership-----if an arab pissed there----it was called  "ARAB OWNED LAND"      Since by 1948 all the jews had been throat slitted out of Hebron-----at that point  ARABS OWNED HEBRON -----etc etc etc       Land ownership by virtue of  PURCHASE   has been customary in Palestine for more than 3000 years         with the sole exception of   ARAB LAND OWNERSHIP------which simply happens by   arab declaration


----------



## Billo_Really

SAYIT said:


> OK, so I've also read Hammond's opinion piece and noticed not a single citation for any of his "facts." Frankly, if a blogger - especially one who holds himself out to be an "investigative reporter" - doesn't support his conclusive "facts" with citations, he wasted his time writing at all. I'm certain Jeremy knew that when he blogged.


This is nothing more than an ad hominem.  You've provided no reason to doubt what Hammond say's.  You're just trying to discredit the source, because you have no valid argument against it.


----------



## Billo_Really

irosie91 said:


> The  FACTS cited by  islamo nazi propagandaists   regarding  "arab"  ownership of land is based on semantics         There is a true Fact----the true fact is that jews owned 7% of the land----by purchase------lands which jews were forced by massacres to abandon----which they also owned-----such as Hebron and Jerusalem were not included in the "jewish owned land"       ALL of the rest of the land was assigned some kind of ownership-----if an arab pissed there----it was called  "ARAB OWNED LAND"      Since by 1948 all the jews had been throat slitted out of Hebron-----at that point  ARABS OWNED HEBRON -----etc etc etc       Land ownership by virtue of  PURCHASE   has been customary in Palestine for more than 3000 years         with the sole exception of   ARAB LAND OWNERSHIP------which simply happens by   arab declaration


Are you mentally incapable of making a lucid point?


----------



## Billo_Really

SAYIT said:


> Hey, I understand your embarassment. Nobody likes to be called out for being a mindless hater. I just call 'em like I see 'em and I see you clearly, Princess.


That's all it is.  You calling me a hater.  It has nothing to do with me.  The only way you can prove my statement wrong, is to explain why you think I'm a hater.  And we both know, you can't do that!


----------



## Billo_Really

SAYIT said:


> That's easy ...the crap you post.
> Now are you gonna answer my question?
> Why do you hate?


The "crap" I post, is not hating.  You're the one who chooses to take it that way.  
That's your choice, not mine_*.............own it!*_


----------



## Billo_Really

Hossfly said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> People assume by reading your posts that you are a misanthropist. And they are right!
> 
> 
> 
> How could they be right when I have just as many posts not hating people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's just say then you hate half the people on earth and mistrust the other half.There, you aren't a pure hater after all. Ain't that a relief?
Click to expand...

Well, thank God for that!


----------



## Hossfly

loinboy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The  FACTS cited by  islamo nazi propagandaists   regarding  "arab"  ownership of land is based on semantics         There is a true Fact----the true fact is that jews owned 7% of the land----by purchase------lands which jews were forced by massacres to abandon----which they also owned-----such as Hebron and Jerusalem were not included in the "jewish owned land"       ALL of the rest of the land was assigned some kind of ownership-----if an arab pissed there----it was called  "ARAB OWNED LAND"      Since by 1948 all the jews had been throat slitted out of Hebron-----at that point  ARABS OWNED HEBRON -----etc etc etc       Land ownership by virtue of  PURCHASE   has been customary in Palestine for more than 3000 years         with the sole exception of   ARAB LAND OWNERSHIP------which simply happens by   arab declaration
> 
> 
> 
> Are you mentally incapable of making a lucid point?
Click to expand...

Pretty clear to everybody else. You still at happy hour?


----------



## Billo_Really

Hossfly said:


> Pretty clear to everybody else. You still at happy hour?


That's tomorrow!


----------



## SAYIT

loinboy said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so I've also read Hammond's opinion piece and noticed not a single citation for any of his "facts." Frankly, if a blogger - especially one who holds himself out to be an "investigative reporter" - doesn't support his conclusive "facts" with citations, he wasted his time writing at all. I'm certain Jeremy knew that when he blogged.
> 
> 
> 
> This is nothing more than an ad hominem.  You've provided no reason to doubt what Hammond say's.
Click to expand...


Really? Hammond offers no reason to believe what he thinks. I will waste non of my time disproving what he failed to prove. However, you can waste yours trying to prove it, Princess.


----------



## SAYIT

loinboy said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, I understand your embarassment. Nobody likes to be called out for being a mindless hater. I just call 'em like I see 'em and I see you clearly, Princess.
> 
> 
> 
> That's all it is.  You calling me a hater.  It has nothing to do with me.  The only way you can prove my statement wrong, is to explain why you think I'm a hater.  And we both know, you can't do that!
Click to expand...


I called out GeorgePhillip as a hater here, Princess, and you got your thong in a bunch and squealed like a stuck pig. Clearly I've already made the case against you.


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Hasan's slaughter seems almost charitable by comparison."
> 
> It's too bad for you that Hasan didn't kill more people. You could feel better about yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> Nidal Malik Hasan was born in Virginia in 1970 to parents who fled the Israeli conquest and illegal occupation of their Palestinian town, Al-Bireh, in 1967. I can mourn Hasan's 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted murder without excusing how the US deliberately targeted the electrical power grids of Iraq in 1991.
> 
> I don't see how it's possible to feel bad about the former without feeling worse about the latter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because you see the world through the "America and Americans are evil" prism.
> As for your willingness to "mourn Hasan's 13 counts of premeditated murder," you must know that a normal person would mourn the victims of that slaughter, not the charges against the perp.
> Finally, do you have a working link to the Air Force document which _you_ claimed proves they deliberately targeted that electric grid to "deprive the Iraqis of fresh water?"
> The link in your article doen't work.
Click to expand...

My prism shows me that only one country since 1945 has murdered, maimed, displaced, and incarcerated millions of civilians on the opposite side of the planet from Washington DC. Normal human beings would mourn that first and foremost.

The link in "Material Breach" is outdated:
Do you dispute its charges?

"Hard then to explain the 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people. An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled 'Strategic Attack,' chillingly explains: 'The electrical attacks proved extremely effective ... The loss of electricity shut down the capital's water treatment plants and led to a public health crisis from raw sewage dumped in the Tigris River.' 

"A second US Defense Intelligence Agency document, 1991's 'Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities,' predicted how sanctions would then be used to prevent Iraq from getting the equipment and chemicals necessary for water purification, which would result in 'a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population" leading to "increased *incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.'"*

"So basically, in defiance of international law, the United States knowingly destroyed Iraq's water supply, then for the past eleven years has prevented the contaminated drinking water from being treated, even though it was obvious those most affected would be millions of citizens doomed to preventable disease and death.* If that's not a material breach, what is?*"

Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq

Tell me if normal persons doubt the US deliberately targeted Iraq's electrical grid in 1991.


----------



## Billo_Really

SAYIT said:


> I called out GeorgePhillip as a hater here, Princess, and you got your thong in a bunch and squealed like a stuck pig. Clearly I've already made the case against you.


And I asked you to explain the same question about him, which you haven't.

In addition, you know full well you've labeled that claim against me in the past and I'm still waiting for answer on that one as well.


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you open your link you find an article from someone named Heather Wokusch at something called Dissident Voice. Her complaint, that the US Air Force destroyed Iraq's electric grid in an effort to deprive Iraqis of fresh drinking water, is based on what she claims to be an internal Air Force document but when you click the link provided (http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/pubs/speclist.asp?puborg=AFDC&series=dd), you find nothing at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Clicking on Heather's "Strategic Attack" link leads to an "Air Force e-Publishing" page with the following apology:
> 
> "Sorry, the page you tried to reach does not exist
> 
> "*You may have used an outdated link* or you may have typed the address (URL) incorrectly.
> To find what you are looking for please use..."
> 
> http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/pubs/speclist.asp?puborg=AFDC&series=dd
> 
> No apologies for the 49,600 Iraqi children that the NEJM claims were victims of the USAF Strategic Attack and ensuing trade sanctions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That link doesn't work, either. Have you read the Air Force document? Could you post a working link? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Your welcome.

"During the Gulf War of 1991 aerial bombardment caused severe damage to the electric grid that operated the pumping stations and other facilities for potable water delivery and sewage treatment. The sanctions imposed by the UN at the conclusion of the Gulf War exacerbated these problems by banning the importation of spare parts for equipment and chemicals, such as chlorine, needed for disinfection."

Damage to Baghdad during the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Billo_Really

SAYIT said:


> Really? Hammond offers no reason to believe what he thinks. I will waste non of my time disproving what he failed to prove. However, you can waste yours trying to prove it, Princess.


Actually, he offered quite a few reasons.  His report is nothing but reasons.  It's pretty obvious you didn't even read what he said.


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is recalling history in the context from which it occured, making excuses?
> 
> Care to explain that one?
> 
> 
> 
> Some of these damn conservatives have real problems with cause and effect.
> The greatest purveyor of violence on earth hasn't changed its stripes since MLK died...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, ok.
> Your hate for the US has been duly noted. I wonder which came first: Your hate for America or your hate for Israel?
Click to expand...

"Hate" isn't the right word.

I'm disgusted with pusillanimous slaves too brainwashed to hold Israel and the US to the same standards they apply to every other dollar-corrupted government on the planet.

OK?


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> do you have the names of each of the children who supposedly died because of  SANCTIONS against the noble government of  Saddam Hussein?     Of what did they die?     where they executed?
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you asking for the childrens' names, thinking of sending sympathy cards?
> They died from the effects of drinking contaminated water ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Could you offer some support for your claim that over 46,000 Iraqi children died as a direct result of drinking dirty water? It seems to me your hate for this country should motivate you to move somewhere you might feel more comfortable. There are millions who would gladly trade places with you.
Click to expand...

*Apparently your pusillanimous patriotism blinded you to this link the last time I posted it:*

"These results provide strong evidence that the Gulf war and trade sanctions caused a threefold increase in mortality among Iraqi children under five years of age. We estimate that an excess of more than *46,900 children* died between January and August 1991. (N Engl J Med 1992;327:9316.)"

MMS: Error


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your last sentence proves what I said earlier about apologizing for Muslim violence. Now you are under suspicion, Benedict.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm thinking Benedict was a better American than Dick the Draft Dodger, Hoss.
> 
> "Born in Connecticut, Arnold was a merchant operating ships on the Atlantic Ocean when the war broke out in 1775. After joining the growing army outside Boston, he distinguished himself through acts of intelligence and bravery..."
> 
> "Despite Arnold's successes, he was passed over for promotion by the Continental Congress while other officers claimed credit for some of his accomplishments.[3]
> 
> "Adversaries in military and political circles brought charges of corruption or other malfeasance, but most often he was acquitted in formal inquiries.
> 
> "Congress investigated his accounts and found he was indebted to Congress after spending much of his own money on the war effort. Frustrated and bitter, Arnold decided to change sides in 1779, and opened secret negotiations with the British."
> 
> Benedict Arnold - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> How many $ do you suppose the Draft Dodger has earned from the deaths of those 46,900 Iraqi children?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While historians do indeed quibble over Arnold's legacy, the word "Benedict" has long meant "traitor" in this country. Are you new here?
Click to expand...

*Are you literate?*

"traitor (plural traitors)

    "One who violates his allegiance and betrays his/her country; one guilty of treason; one who, in breach of trust, delivers his country to an enemy, or yields up any fort or place intrusted to his defense, or surrenders an army or body of troops to the enemy, unless when vanquished; also, one who takes arms and levies war against his country; or one who aids an enemy in conquering his country.
*Hence, one who betrays any confidence or trust; a betrayer*.

traitor - Wiktionary

While historians quibble, Dick still has my vote for betraying the trust and confidence of his countrymen.


----------



## georgephillip

Theseus said:


> For one Israel has the right to be a state mainly because of its historical value. Israel was originally the holy land of the Hebrews. And what other reason would it need. Why shouldn't it be a state is one thing I would like to hear from somebody?


Why do Jews alone, among all the world's people, have a "right" to land their ancestors conquered thousands of years ago? What about the rights of the majority of the inhabitants of 1948 Mandate Palestine who were not Jewish? 

*"The history of the Palestinian exodus* is closely tied to the events of the war in Palestine, which lasted from 1947 to 1949, and to the political events preceding it. 

"In September 1949, the United Nations Conciliation Commission for Palestine estimated 711,000 Palestinian refugees existed outside Israel,[25] with about one-quarter of the estimated 160,000 Palestinian Arabs remaining in Israel as 'internal refugees'".

"The Palestinians say they were evicted at bayonet-point and by panic deliberately incited by the Zionists.[26]"

1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theseus said:
> 
> 
> 
> For one Israel has the right to be a state mainly because of its historical value. Israel was originally the holy land of the Hebrews. And what other reason would it need. Why shouldn't it be a state is one thing I would like to hear from somebody?
> 
> 
> 
> States don't have rights, people do!
> 
> And the Pals have just as much right to have a nation of their own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know, UN 181 offered the "Pals" the same opportunity for UN membership and international recognition that it offered the soon-to-be Israelis. Had the Arabs accepted and established their own state as the Israelis did in 1948 - rather than violently reject both UN 181 and Israel's existence - they would be celebrating their 64th independence day right about now.
> "The Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity" - Abba Eban
Click to expand...

"The Arab leadership (in and out of Palestine) opposed partition and claimed all of Palestine.[34] The Arabs argued that it violated the rights of the majority of the people in Palestine, which at the time was *67% non-Jewish (1,237,000) and 33% Jewish (608,000)*."

Had a free election taken place in 1948 there would have been no need for a "two state solution."

United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> My question was obviously directed at GeorgePhillip but you can play too:
> 
> 
> 
> Fair enough.  Explain why he would hate the US.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why ask _me_ to explain _your_ hate, Princess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not my question.  I asking you to explain why "you think" I would hate the US?  Or Israel? Or the jews?  This is what you are claiming.  I want to know what were the premises that led you to those conclusions.  The question is not about me, it's about you.  Are you going to answer the question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People assume by reading your posts that you are a misanthropist. And they are right!
Click to expand...

"A misanthrope; a person who hates all mankind; a person who hates the human species."

misanthropist - Wiktionary

*Other people assume you hate Democracy:*

"The Arab leadership (in and out of Palestine) opposed partition and claimed all of Palestine.[34] The Arabs argued that it violated the rights of the majority of the people in Palestine, which at the time was 67% non-Jewish (1,237,000) and 33% Jewish (608,000)."

United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*Are they right?*


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fair enough.  Explain why he would hate the US.
> 
> 
> That's not my question.  I asking you to explain why "you think" I would hate the US?  Or Israel? Or the jews?  This is what you are claiming.  I want to know what were the premises that led you to those conclusions.  The question is not about me, it's about you.  Are you going to answer the question?
> 
> 
> 
> People assume by reading your posts that you are a misanthropist. And they are right!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "A misanthrope; a person who hates all mankind; a person who hates the human species."
> 
> misanthropist - Wiktionary
> 
> *Other people assume you hate Democracy:*
> 
> "The Arab leadership (in and out of Palestine) opposed partition and claimed all of Palestine.[34] The Arabs argued that it violated the rights of the majority of the people in Palestine, which at the time was 67% non-Jewish (1,237,000) and 33% Jewish (608,000)."
> 
> United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> *Are they right?*
Click to expand...

Not deserving of comment.


----------



## P F Tinmore

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fair enough.  Explain why he would hate the US.
> 
> 
> That's not my question.  I asking you to explain why "you think" I would hate the US?  Or Israel? Or the jews?  This is what you are claiming.  I want to know what were the premises that led you to those conclusions.  The question is not about me, it's about you.  Are you going to answer the question?
> 
> 
> 
> People assume by reading your posts that you are a misanthropist. And they are right!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "A misanthrope; a person who hates all mankind; a person who hates the human species."
> 
> misanthropist - Wiktionary
> 
> *Other people assume you hate Democracy:*
> 
> "The Arab leadership (in and out of Palestine) opposed partition and claimed all of Palestine.[34] The Arabs argued that it violated the rights of the majority of the people in Palestine, which at the time was 67% non-Jewish (1,237,000) and 33% Jewish (608,000)."
> 
> United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> *Are they right?*
Click to expand...


The Israeli government was set up by foreigners without the consent of the people.


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> People assume by reading your posts that you are a misanthropist. And they are right!
> 
> 
> 
> "A misanthrope; a person who hates all mankind; a person who hates the human species."
> 
> misanthropist - Wiktionary
> 
> *Other people assume you hate Democracy:*
> 
> "The Arab leadership (in and out of Palestine) opposed partition and claimed all of Palestine.[34] The Arabs argued that it violated the rights of the majority of the people in Palestine, which at the time was 67% non-Jewish (1,237,000) and 33% Jewish (608,000)."
> 
> United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> *Are they right?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not deserving of comment.
Click to expand...

You set the bar pretty low by claiming everyone who criticizes Israel hates all humanity.

Why do you suppose Western Powers, i.e., the U$ and UK wanted a Jewish $tate close to all that Arab oil?


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "A misanthrope; a person who hates all mankind; a person who hates the human species."
> 
> misanthropist - Wiktionary
> 
> *Other people assume you hate Democracy:*
> 
> "The Arab leadership (in and out of Palestine) opposed partition and claimed all of Palestine.[34] The Arabs argued that it violated the rights of the majority of the people in Palestine, which at the time was 67% non-Jewish (1,237,000) and 33% Jewish (608,000)."
> 
> United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> *Are they right?*
> 
> 
> 
> Not deserving of comment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You set the bar pretty low by claiming everyone who criticizes Israel hates all humanity.
> 
> Why do you suppose Western Powers, i.e., the U$ and UK wanted a Jewish $tate close to all that Arab oil?
Click to expand...

Not the reason.


----------



## georgephillip

P F Tinmore said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> People assume by reading your posts that you are a misanthropist. And they are right!
> 
> 
> 
> "A misanthrope; a person who hates all mankind; a person who hates the human species."
> 
> misanthropist - Wiktionary
> 
> *Other people assume you hate Democracy:*
> 
> "The Arab leadership (in and out of Palestine) opposed partition and claimed all of Palestine.[34] The Arabs argued that it violated the rights of the majority of the people in Palestine, which at the time was 67% non-Jewish (1,237,000) and 33% Jewish (608,000)."
> 
> United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> *Are they right?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Israeli government was set up by foreigners without the consent of the people.
Click to expand...

That's one of the points Jeremy Hammond makes here:

"Although Arabs were a majority in Palestine prior to the creation of the state of Israel, there had always been a Jewish population, as well. For the most part, Jewish Palestinians got along with their Arab neighbors. 

"*This began to change with the onset of the Zionist movement, *because the Zionists rejected the right of the Palestinians to self-determination and wanted Palestine for their own, to create a 'Jewish State' in a region where Arabs were the majority and owned most of the land.

Top Ten Myths about the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict | Foreign Policy Journal

I can't find Hammond's sources; however, I haven't checked his website, either.


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not deserving of comment.
> 
> 
> 
> You set the bar pretty low by claiming everyone who criticizes Israel hates all humanity.
> 
> Why do you suppose Western Powers, i.e., the U$ and UK wanted a Jewish $tate close to all that Arab oil?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not the reason.
Click to expand...

Are you seriously suggesting it had anything to do with "righting a two thousand year old wrong?"


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> You set the bar pretty low by claiming everyone who criticizes Israel hates all humanity.
> 
> Why do you suppose Western Powers, i.e., the U$ and UK wanted a Jewish $tate close to all that Arab oil?
> 
> 
> 
> Not the reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you seriously suggesting it had anything to do with "righting a two thousand year old wrong?"
Click to expand...

Ah, rache, of course.


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not the reason.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you seriously suggesting it had anything to do with "righting a two thousand year old wrong?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, rache, of course.
Click to expand...

*Tribe against tribe:Religion against religion, right?*

"Ariel Sharon and former Prime Minister Menachem Begin normally take credit for creating the 'facts on the ground' policies that have poured more than 420,000 settlers into the Occupied Territories. 

"But they were simply copying Charles I, the English King, who in 1609 forcibly removed the O&#8217;Neill and O&#8217;Donnell clans from the north of Ireland, moved in 20,000 English and Scottish Protestants, and founded the Plantation of Ulster."

Divide and Conquer as Imperial Rules | FPIF 

1609, Hoss.
Do you remember 1969?
I do; and I remember how many bombs were still going off on the Ulster Plantation.

BTW...rache?


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you seriously suggesting it had anything to do with "righting a two thousand year old wrong?"
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, rache, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Tribe against tribe:Religion against religion, right?*
> 
> "Ariel Sharon and former Prime Minister Menachem Begin normally take credit for creating the 'facts on the ground' policies that have poured more than 420,000 settlers into the Occupied Territories.
> 
> "But they were simply copying Charles I, the English King, who in 1609 forcibly removed the O&#8217;Neill and O&#8217;Donnell clans from the north of Ireland, moved in 20,000 English and Scottish Protestants, and founded the Plantation of Ulster."
> 
> Divide and Conquer as Imperial Rules | FPIF
> 
> 1609, Hoss.
> Do you remember 1969?
> I do; and I remember how many bombs were still going off on the Ulster Plantation.
> 
> BTW...rache?
Click to expand...

In 1969 I was on my 2d tour in Vietnam, directing bomb strikes on NVA troops.I didn't have time to think about Sealadaigh Abu.
 My reference to Rache is: Rache - Wiktionary


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, rache, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> *Tribe against tribe:Religion against religion, right?*
> 
> "Ariel Sharon and former Prime Minister Menachem Begin normally take credit for creating the 'facts on the ground' policies that have poured more than 420,000 settlers into the Occupied Territories.
> 
> "But they were simply copying Charles I, the English King, who in 1609 forcibly removed the O&#8217;Neill and O&#8217;Donnell clans from the north of Ireland, moved in 20,000 English and Scottish Protestants, and founded the Plantation of Ulster."
> 
> Divide and Conquer as Imperial Rules | FPIF
> 
> 1609, Hoss.
> Do you remember 1969?
> I do; and I remember how many bombs were still going off on the Ulster Plantation.
> 
> BTW...rache?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In 1969 I was on my 2d tour in Vietnam, directing bomb strikes on NVA troops.I didn't have time to think about Sealadaigh Abu.
> My reference to Rache is: Rache - Wiktionary
Click to expand...

What threat did those NVA troops pose to your hometown?
(Or Yorba Linda?)

"*1969 &#8211; Vietnam War*: U.S. President Richard Nixon declares the Nixon Doctrine, stating that the United States now expects its Asian allies to take care of their own military defense. This is the start of the "Vietnamization" of the war."

July 25 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Tribe against tribe:Religion against religion, right?*
> 
> "Ariel Sharon and former Prime Minister Menachem Begin normally take credit for creating the 'facts on the ground' policies that have poured more than 420,000 settlers into the Occupied Territories.
> 
> "But they were simply copying Charles I, the English King, who in 1609 forcibly removed the O&#8217;Neill and O&#8217;Donnell clans from the north of Ireland, moved in 20,000 English and Scottish Protestants, and founded the Plantation of Ulster."
> 
> Divide and Conquer as Imperial Rules | FPIF
> 
> 1609, Hoss.
> Do you remember 1969?
> I do; and I remember how many bombs were still going off on the Ulster Plantation.
> 
> BTW...rache?
> 
> 
> 
> In 1969 I was on my 2d tour in Vietnam, directing bomb strikes on NVA troops.I didn't have time to think about Sealadaigh Abu.
> My reference to Rache is: Rache - Wiktionary
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What threat did those NVA troops pose to your hometown?
> (Or Yorba Linda?)
> 
> "*1969 &#8211; Vietnam War*: U.S. President Richard Nixon declares the Nixon Doctrine, stating that the United States now expects its Asian allies to take care of their own military defense. This is the start of the "Vietnamization" of the war."
> 
> July 25 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

If you don't know you won't miss anything.


----------



## P F Tinmore

georgephillip said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "A misanthrope; a person who hates all mankind; a person who hates the human species."
> 
> misanthropist - Wiktionary
> 
> *Other people assume you hate Democracy:*
> 
> "The Arab leadership (in and out of Palestine) opposed partition and claimed all of Palestine.[34] The Arabs argued that it violated the rights of the majority of the people in Palestine, which at the time was 67% non-Jewish (1,237,000) and 33% Jewish (608,000)."
> 
> United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> *Are they right?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Israeli government was set up by foreigners without the consent of the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's one of the points Jeremy Hammond makes here:
> 
> "Although Arabs were a majority in Palestine prior to the creation of the state of Israel, there had always been a Jewish population, as well. For the most part, Jewish Palestinians got along with their Arab neighbors.
> 
> "*This began to change with the onset of the Zionist movement, *because the Zionists rejected the right of the Palestinians to self-determination and wanted Palestine for their own, to create a 'Jewish State' in a region where Arabs were the majority and owned most of the land.
> 
> Top Ten Myths about the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict | Foreign Policy Journal
> 
> I can't find Hammond's sources; however, I haven't checked his website, either.
Click to expand...


Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.

Israel is a project of the World Zionist Organization, a foreign organization.

Israel was established in Palestine without the consent of the people.

External intervention that violates the right of self determination of a people is a violation of international law.


----------



## irosie91

the statement  "jewish residents of palestine  for the most part  got along with their arab neighbors"  is as meaningless as saying  "for the most part, jewish residents in the ghettos of the Ukraine---got along with the  Cossack neighbors"       It is also as meaningless as citing the fact that   "MAMMY got along with  Scarlett O'Hara"        I have no doubt that there were some good relations between  muslims and christians in Sudan now and then.   I happen to know for SURE  that some muslims and hindus got along in India pre  1948 and since there were more Hindus then Muslims in that country------and the muslims were relative new comers   ---by invasion----obviously Pakistan should not exist at all.    The "FOREIGNERS"  argument offered by islamo nazis is silly in light of  HOW THE REST OF THE WORLD WAS MADE----over the past  60000 years      The arguements  DELEGITAMIZE    every country on the face of the earth


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _Why do you suppose Western Powers, i.e., the U$ and UK wanted a Jewish $tate close to all that Arab oil?_


Is it a new drivel, or a recycled one?


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israeli government was set up by foreigners without the consent of the people.
> 
> 
> 
> That's one of the points Jeremy Hammond makes here:
> 
> "Although Arabs were a majority in Palestine prior to the creation of the state of Israel, there had always been a Jewish population, as well. For the most part, Jewish Palestinians got along with their Arab neighbors.
> 
> "*This began to change with the onset of the Zionist movement, *because the Zionists rejected the right of the Palestinians to self-determination and wanted Palestine for their own, to create a 'Jewish State' in a region where Arabs were the majority and owned most of the land.
> 
> Top Ten Myths about the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict | Foreign Policy Journal
> 
> I can't find Hammond's sources; however, I haven't checked his website, either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.
> 
> Israel is a project of the World Zionist Organization, a foreign organization.
> 
> Israel was established in Palestine without the consent of the people.
> 
> External intervention that violates the right of self determination of a people is a violation of international law.
Click to expand...

Sour apples. Get over it. It's like quitting drinking but you'll survive.


----------



## irosie91

If there were a  DEMOCRATED REFEREDUM     put to the citizens of the UNITED STATES  as to whether mosques should be permitted in the USA-------the mosques would be VOTED OUT    -----in fact it is possible that the MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE WOULD VOTE  to outlaw islam      Be careful what you wish for ------the  GREAT AND NOBLE ISLAMIC LAND~~MALDIVES~~~~ VOTED TO MAKE BEING A MUSLIM a requirement for citizenship      No one in the UN objected         It is good of the Jihadists to create the precedent----there are still MORE HINDUS THAN MUSLIMS IN INDIA -----in fact there are a lot more  CATHOLICS  IN FRANCE THAN THERE ARE MUSLIMS


----------



## georgephillip

irosie91 said:


> the statement  "jewish residents of palestine  for the most part  got along with their arab neighbors"  is as meaningless as saying  "for the most part, jewish residents in the ghettos of the Ukraine---got along with the  Cossack neighbors"       It is also as meaningless as citing the fact that   "MAMMY got along with  Scarlett O'Hara"        I have no doubt that there were some good relations between  muslims and christians in Sudan now and then.   I happen to know for SURE  that some muslims and hindus got along in India pre  1948 and since there were more Hindus then Muslims in that country------and the muslims were relative new comers   ---by invasion----obviously Pakistan should not exist at all.    The "FOREIGNERS"  argument offered by islamo nazis is silly in light of  HOW THE REST OF THE WORLD WAS MADE----over the past  60000 years      The arguements  DELEGITAMIZE    every country on the face of the earth


Every nation state on the planet is illegitimate?
I think we've found common ground, rosie.
If you're right about Pakistan, I blame the same Empire that gave us Lord Balfour's "Jewish Homeland, rather than Muslims.

Jews and Arabs coexisted in Palestine/historical Israel much more harmoniously before Zionism reared its racist head. How would you expect the majority of Palestinians to responds when foreigners began bleating about creating a "Jewish Homeland" on land that did not belong to Jews?

*"For instan*ce, after a series of riots in Jaffa in 1921 resulting in the deaths of 47 Jews and 48 Arabs, the occupying British held a commission of inquiry, *which reported their finding that 'there is no inherent anti-Semitism in the country, racial or religious*.' 

"Rather, Arab attacks on Jewish communities were the result of *Arab fears about the stated goal of the Zionists to take over the land.*"

Top Ten Myths about the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict | Foreign Policy Journal


----------



## georgephillip

irosie91 said:


> If there were a  DEMOCRATED REFEREDUM     put to the citizens of the UNITED STATES  as to whether mosques should be permitted in the USA-------the mosques would be VOTED OUT    -----in fact it is possible that the MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE WOULD VOTE  to outlaw islam      Be careful what you wish for ------the  GREAT AND NOBLE ISLAMIC LAND~~MALDIVES~~~~ VOTED TO MAKE BEING A MUSLIM a requirement for citizenship      No one in the UN objected         It is good of the Jihadists to create the precedent----there are still MORE HINDUS THAN MUSLIMS IN INDIA -----in fact there are a lot more  CATHOLICS  IN FRANCE THAN THERE ARE MUSLIMS


"Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

*"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion*, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

When might we expect a Kosher Bill of Rights to appear?
Shortly after the annexation of Area C?

The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net


----------



## irosie91

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the statement  "jewish residents of palestine  for the most part  got along with their arab neighbors"  is as meaningless as saying  "for the most part, jewish residents in the ghettos of the Ukraine---got along with the  Cossack neighbors"       It is also as meaningless as citing the fact that   "MAMMY got along with  Scarlett O'Hara"        I have no doubt that there were some good relations between  muslims and christians in Sudan now and then.   I happen to know for SURE  that some muslims and hindus got along in India pre  1948 and since there were more Hindus then Muslims in that country------and the muslims were relative new comers   ---by invasion----obviously Pakistan should not exist at all.    The "FOREIGNERS"  argument offered by islamo nazis is silly in light of  HOW THE REST OF THE WORLD WAS MADE----over the past  60000 years      The arguements  DELEGITAMIZE    every country on the face of the earth
> 
> 
> 
> Every nation state on the planet is illegitimate?
> I think we've found common ground, rosie.
> If you're right about Pakistan, I blame the same Empire that gave us Lord Balfour's "Jewish Homeland, rather than Muslims.
> 
> Jews and Arabs coexisted in Palestine/historical Israel much more harmoniously before Zionism reared its racist head. How would you expect the majority of Palestinians to responds when foreigners began bleating about creating a "Jewish Homeland" on land that did not belong to Jews?
> 
> *"For instan*ce, after a series of riots in Jaffa in 1921 resulting in the deaths of 47 Jews and 48 Arabs, the occupying British held a commission of inquiry, *which reported their finding that 'there is no inherent anti-Semitism in the country, racial or religious*.'
> 
> "Rather, Arab attacks on Jewish communities were the result of *Arab fears about the stated goal of the Zionists to take over the land.*"
> 
> Top Ten Myths about the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict | Foreign Policy Journal
Click to expand...




      Georgie    you are basing your comments on extremely limited knowlege.    In fact I would base your comment on India/Pakistan-----on a level consistent with a high school history text book.      or some bits and pieces of propaganda      Fret not----I knew nothing about the issue which existed and exists between  Hindus and muslims   and ITS HISTORY---until shortly after I graduated high school,  I came into contact with MANY MANY young and well educated  Indians (both muslim and hindu etc)   and Pakistanis     As to the relationship between jews and muslims in the Middle east ---I did know more than I did about  the history of the indian subcontinent-----but not much.   I learned a lot more from my hundreds of relatives and acquaintances who LIVED IT----ie  grew up in pre-1948  palestine and  grew up as jews in muslim countries     That you quote an opinion by a British comission about the relationship between jews and arabs is actually hilarious

One of the view points you mentioned about  the issue of  "ITS ALL THE FAULT OF BRITISH COLONIZATION"    and the brits  "DIVIDE AND CONQUOR POLICY------is 24 Karat     INDIAN SUBCONTINENT PROPAGANDA         the kids over there are taught to chant that mantra-----after all------GANDHI INVENTED IT    and the heirs of the  MOGHUL EMPIRE----despite hating Gandhi    MANAGED TO LOVE IT ANYWAY        its funny----no matter how much the muslims of the Indian sub-continent DESPISE hindus----they still blame the social problems on that  POISON left in India by the brits------but, of course, their concept of that which is POISON is not yours------their concept is somehow the Hiindus got the idea that they do not have to lick meccan-----kaaba turd----from the brits   --

   in sum----georgie---you are clueless------get your nose out of the baby history books and propaganda and talk to real live   people -----people who lived it and/or carry the family legacy.    My husband was born in a country that adheres to classic  shariah law------his community had been there for about 2500 years or more      but -------the one interesting prominent feature of that community is that they had almost 100%  male literacy for more than 2000 years and hubby still knows how to MAKE PAPER AND INK---------they kept records and you are wrong.    Another interesting factoid is that there was always some person----from here or there-----going to palestine---and sometimes coming back -----even more interesting ----they managed to get letters back and forth-----I am still amazed at the distances  that letters went 1000 years ago

    for fun----find an honest ----very very candid  Hindu Indian------get to know him VERY WELL     and tell him how wonderfully muslims and hindus GOT ALONG   in the history of India---------do not ask the local curry man-----he will laugh and agree that it was all LOVE.  This kind of response is CULTURAL


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _Jews and Arabs coexisted in Palestine/historical Israel much more harmoniously before Zionism reared its racist head. How would you expect the majority of Palestinians to responds when foreigners began bleating about creating a "Jewish Homeland" on land that did not belong to Jews?_


In memorable words of uncle Winnie "So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the jewish population." Sure, arabs don't look like indigenous, like ancient, of course.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's one of the points Jeremy Hammond makes here:
> 
> "Although Arabs were a majority in Palestine prior to the creation of the state of Israel, there had always been a Jewish population, as well. For the most part, Jewish Palestinians got along with their Arab neighbors.
> 
> "*This began to change with the onset of the Zionist movement, *because the Zionists rejected the right of the Palestinians to self-determination and wanted Palestine for their own, to create a 'Jewish State' in a region where Arabs were the majority and owned most of the land.
> 
> Top Ten Myths about the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict | Foreign Policy Journal
> 
> I can't find Hammond's sources; however, I haven't checked his website, either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.
> 
> Israel is a project of the World Zionist Organization, a foreign organization.
> 
> Israel was established in Palestine without the consent of the people.
> 
> External intervention that violates the right of self determination of a people is a violation of international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sour apples. Get over it. It's like quitting drinking but you'll survive.
Click to expand...


What is sour apples about basic facts?


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.
> 
> Israel is a project of the World Zionist Organization, a foreign organization.
> 
> Israel was established in Palestine without the consent of the people.
> 
> External intervention that violates the right of self determination of a people is a violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> Sour apples. Get over it. It's like quitting drinking but you'll survive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is sour apples about basic facts?
Click to expand...

It means nuthins gonna change. Que sera, sera.


----------



## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.
> 
> Israel is a project of the World Zionist Organization, a foreign organization.
> 
> Israel was established in Palestine without the consent of the people.
> 
> External intervention that violates the right of self determination of a people is a violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> Sour apples. Get over it. It's like quitting drinking but you'll survive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is sour apples about basic facts?
Click to expand...


How 'bout these basic facts, Princess:
Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
"Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!


----------



## SAYIT

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sour apples. Get over it. It's like quitting drinking but you'll survive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is sour apples about basic facts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It means nuthins gonna change. Que sera, sera.
Click to expand...


With "friends" like TinHorn those hapless "Palestinians" sure don't need enemies.


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sour apples. Get over it. It's like quitting drinking but you'll survive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is sour apples about basic facts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It means nuthins gonna change. Que sera, sera.
Click to expand...

In the same way "nuthin" changed in Pretoria and Selma, Hoss"

Jews can have a Democratic State or a Jewish State, but they can't have both.
Tough choice for racists, I guess.


----------



## Billo_Really

georgephillip said:


> Jews can have a Democratic State or a Jewish State, but they can't have both.
> Tough choice for racists, I guess.


Very tough.


----------



## georgephillip

loinboy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews can have a Democratic State or a Jewish State, but they can't have both.
> Tough choice for racists, I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> Very tough.
Click to expand...

I think the Levy Report will make things even tougher by November.
Especially if Likud's position is supported by a majority of Israeli Jews:

"Likud's Charter also rejects Palestinian self-determination, saying:

"*The Jordan river will be the permanent eastern border of the State of Israel.*"

"Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel. The government will flatly reject Palestinian proposals to divide Jerusalem."

"The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river."

International Law Revisionism and the Military Occupation of Palestine


----------



## Billo_Really

georgephillip said:


> I think the Levy Report will make things even tougher by November.
> Especially if Likud's position is supported by a majority of Israeli Jews:
> 
> "Likud's Charter also rejects Palestinian self-determination, saying:
> 
> "*The Jordan river will be the permanent eastern border of the State of Israel.*"
> 
> "Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel. The government will flatly reject Palestinian proposals to divide Jerusalem."
> 
> "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river."
> 
> International Law Revisionism and the Military Occupation of Palestine


I don't know.  Didn't Likud consolidate their power recently in the Knesset by striking agreements with the opposition party?


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Jews and Arabs coexisted in Palestine/historical Israel much more harmoniously before Zionism reared its racist head. How would you expect the majority of Palestinians to responds when foreigners began bleating about creating a "Jewish Homeland" on land that did not belong to Jews?_
> 
> 
> 
> In memorable words of uncle Winnie "So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the jewish population." Sure, arabs don't look like indigenous, like ancient, of course.
Click to expand...

"What is the point of revisiting Winston Churchill's somewhat unsavory career as an imperial praetorian?"

I'm sure you have an answer for that one, drivel.
Why you would respect a racist with a propensity for poison gas solutions to his "Arab Problem" probably is another question altogether, or is it?

What is your choice for Israel's Eastern Border?
(the same as Winnies...the Euphrates?)

Why Churchill Matters


----------



## georgephillip

loinboy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the Levy Report will make things even tougher by November.
> Especially if Likud's position is supported by a majority of Israeli Jews:
> 
> "Likud's Charter also rejects Palestinian self-determination, saying:
> 
> "*The Jordan river will be the permanent eastern border of the State of Israel.*"
> 
> "Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel. The government will flatly reject Palestinian proposals to divide Jerusalem."
> 
> "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river."
> 
> International Law Revisionism and the Military Occupation of Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know.  Didn't Likud consolidate their power recently in the Knesset by striking agreements with the opposition party?
Click to expand...

I think so.
I'm more sure that Bibi's approval ratings are about 50% which makes him one of the leaders among global politicians.

If Israel annexes Area C, would that "legally" extend their borders to the Jordan River?


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Jews and Arabs coexisted in Palestine/historical Israel much more harmoniously before Zionism reared its racist head. How would you expect the majority of Palestinians to responds when foreigners began bleating about creating a "Jewish Homeland" on land that did not belong to Jews?_
> 
> 
> 
> In memorable words of uncle Winnie "So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the jewish population." Sure, arabs don't look like indigenous, like ancient, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "What is the point of revisiting Winston Churchill's somewhat unsavory career as an imperial praetorian?"
> 
> I'm sure you have an answer for that one, drivel.
> Why you would respect a racist with a propensity for poison gas solutions to his "Arab Problem" probably is another question altogether, or is it?
> 
> What is your choice for Israel's Eastern Border?
> (the same as Winnies...the Euphrates?)
> 
> Why Churchill Matters
Click to expand...

How about this border, GP?

The Kingdom of David and Solomon - 1077 - 997 BCE


----------



## sealadaigh

irosie91 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the statement  "jewish residents of palestine  for the most part  got along with their arab neighbors"  is as meaningless as saying  "for the most part, jewish residents in the ghettos of the Ukraine---got along with the  Cossack neighbors"       It is also as meaningless as citing the fact that   "MAMMY got along with  Scarlett O'Hara"        I have no doubt that there were some good relations between  muslims and christians in Sudan now and then.   I happen to know for SURE  that some muslims and hindus got along in India pre  1948 and since there were more Hindus then Muslims in that country------and the muslims were relative new comers   ---by invasion----obviously Pakistan should not exist at all.    The "FOREIGNERS"  argument offered by islamo nazis is silly in light of  HOW THE REST OF THE WORLD WAS MADE----over the past  60000 years      The arguements  DELEGITAMIZE    every country on the face of the earth
> 
> 
> 
> Every nation state on the planet is illegitimate?
> I think we've found common ground, rosie.
> If you're right about Pakistan, I blame the same Empire that gave us Lord Balfour's "Jewish Homeland, rather than Muslims.
> 
> Jews and Arabs coexisted in Palestine/historical Israel much more harmoniously before Zionism reared its racist head. How would you expect the majority of Palestinians to responds when foreigners began bleating about creating a "Jewish Homeland" on land that did not belong to Jews?
> 
> *"For instan*ce, after a series of riots in Jaffa in 1921 resulting in the deaths of 47 Jews and 48 Arabs, the occupying British held a commission of inquiry, *which reported their finding that 'there is no inherent anti-Semitism in the country, racial or religious*.'
> 
> "Rather, Arab attacks on Jewish communities were the result of *Arab fears about the stated goal of the Zionists to take over the land.*"
> 
> Top Ten Myths about the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict | Foreign Policy Journal
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Georgie    you are basing your comments on extremely limited knowlege.    In fact I would base your comment on India/Pakistan-----on a level consistent with a high school history text book.      or some bits and pieces of propaganda      Fret not----I knew nothing about the issue which existed and exists between  Hindus and muslims   and ITS HISTORY---until shortly after I graduated high school,  I came into contact with MANY MANY young and well educated  Indians (both muslim and hindu etc)   and Pakistanis     As to the relationship between jews and muslims in the Middle east ---I did know more than I did about  the history of the indian subcontinent-----but not much.   I learned a lot more from my hundreds of relatives and acquaintances who LIVED IT----ie  grew up in pre-1948  palestine and  grew up as jews in muslim countries     That you quote an opinion by a British comission about the relationship between jews and arabs is actually hilarious
> 
> One of the view points you mentioned about  the issue of  "ITS ALL THE FAULT OF BRITISH COLONIZATION"    and the brits  "DIVIDE AND CONQUOR POLICY------is 24 Karat     INDIAN SUBCONTINENT PROPAGANDA         the kids over there are taught to chant that mantra-----after all------GANDHI INVENTED IT    and the heirs of the  MOGHUL EMPIRE----despite hating Gandhi    MANAGED TO LOVE IT ANYWAY        its funny----no matter how much the muslims of the Indian sub-continent DESPISE hindus----they still blame the social problems on that  POISON left in India by the brits------but, of course, their concept of that which is POISON is not yours------their concept is somehow the Hiindus got the idea that they do not have to lick meccan-----kaaba turd----from the brits   --
> 
> in sum----georgie---you are clueless------get your nose out of the baby history books and propaganda and talk to real live   people -----people who lived it and/or carry the family legacy.    My husband was born in a country that adheres to classic  shariah law------his community had been there for about 2500 years or more      but -------the one interesting prominent feature of that community is that they had almost 100%  male literacy for more than 2000 years and hubby still knows how to MAKE PAPER AND INK---------they kept records and you are wrong.    Another interesting factoid is that there was always some person----from here or there-----going to palestine---and sometimes coming back -----even more interesting ----they managed to get letters back and forth-----I am still amazed at the distances  that letters went 1000 years ago
> 
> for fun----find an honest ----very very candid  Hindu Indian------get to know him VERY WELL     and tell him how wonderfully muslims and hindus GOT ALONG   in the history of India---------do not ask the local curry man-----he will laugh and agree that it was all LOVE.  This kind of response is CULTURAL
Click to expand...


his arguments are significantly more substantial than yours...and the brits did leave gaping holes in lives and politics of their former colonies.


----------



## irosie91

Deach    you are as clueless as is georgie-----the issue was a putative  NEFARIOUS INTENION to  "rule and oppress by creating sectarian division" ----not simply   "leaving some power vacuums"      Georgies and many jihadists and to a lesser extent    some   hindu indians actually claim that the sectarian issues in lands once part of the British empire were CREATED   by the british empire or other nefarious    "colonial, western, imperialistic interests"    ------and even imagine a  time of  PARADISE prior to  "western "  intervention.    That's where the written record intervenes and the  FACT of  genocides----both in the Indian subcontinent and in the middle east      GROSS BIG BLOODY GENOCIDES-------no paradise.     Gross oppression-----no mammy/scarlett  barbecue parties.     Ask the survivors ------and those who carry the family legacy of those days


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In memorable words of uncle Winnie "So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the jewish population." Sure, arabs don't look like indigenous, like ancient, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> "What is the point of revisiting Winston Churchill's somewhat unsavory career as an imperial praetorian?"
> 
> I'm sure you have an answer for that one, drivel.
> Why you would respect a racist with a propensity for poison gas solutions to his "Arab Problem" probably is another question altogether, or is it?
> 
> What is your choice for Israel's Eastern Border?
> (the same as Winnies...the Euphrates?)
> 
> Why Churchill Matters
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about this border, GP?
> 
> The Kingdom of David and Solomon - 1077 - 997 BCE
Click to expand...

At first glance, Hoss, it doesn't look all that different from Uri Avnery's _Pax Semitica_:

"The first part of the solution I propose is the setting up of a federation between Israel and a new Arab-Palestinian republic, as outlined earlier. 

"This, together with the settlement of the refugees, can be done by Israel in cooperation with the Palestinian Arabs, independent of any official contact between Israel and the Arab states.

*"The second part of the solution is Semitic Union, a great confederacy of all the states in the Region.*

Pax Semitica by Uri Avnery

1971 is a lot closer to our present reality than 1077 BCE; maybe David and Solomon and Avnery  point to a solution better than any that have come up since 1948.


----------



## irosie91

From Tinny
Israel was created and exists by crimes against another people.
Where is there a "right" to do that? 


depends on your definition of "crime"   tinny.     what is a crime in one law code is legal in another.     At the time jews began the current zionist project  ----which was in the early 1800s----it was LEGAL  according to the ruling Ottomans for jews to buy land-------under the filth of strict shariah which you support-----those purchased constitute a CRIME just as purchase of land by a jew would constitute a crime in saudi arabia and several other countries which adhere to the filth of shariah.    Try to be specific----since you consider it a crime for jews to BUY LAND-----your statement makes since in the filth of the system you support       therefore----EXPLAIN yourself by stating   "SINCE IS SUPPORT OPPRESSION AS PER SHARIAH LAW--_I BELIEVE THAT JEWS WHO PURCHASED LAND IN PALESTINE DURING THE 1800s   WERE, ACCORDING TO THE SYSTEM I SUPPORT---CRIMINALS   ----JUST AS A JEW WHO AS A DOCTOR HAD ARYAN CLIENTS IN 1936  NAZI GERMANY WAS ALSO A "CRIMINAL"        some people do not know your system   TINNY    You might also state that you see no reason to consider the rights of jews living under oppression in islamic lands at that time.      I know many people like you------I grew up in a town in the USA  in which some of the people saw nothing all that wrong with black slavery and would consider a RUNAWAY BLACK SLAVE IN 1855 ALABAMA  a  CRIMINAL      
Have you considered being a consultant for Khartoum in its quest to regain the and enslave southern sudan?


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> From Tinny
> Israel was created and exists by crimes against another people.
> Where is there a "right" to do that?
> 
> 
> depends on your definition of "crime"   tinny.     what is a crime in one law code is legal in another.     At the time jews began the current zionist project  ----which was in the early 1800s----it was LEGAL  according to the ruling Ottomans for jews to buy land-------under the filth of strict shariah which you support-----those purchased constitute a CRIME just as purchase of land by a jew would constitute a crime in saudi arabia and several other countries which adhere to the filth of shariah.    Try to be specific----since you consider it a crime for jews to BUY LAND-----your statement makes since in the filth of the system you support       therefore----EXPLAIN yourself by stating   "SINCE IS SUPPORT OPPRESSION AS PER SHARIAH LAW--_I BELIEVE THAT JEWS WHO PURCHASED LAND IN PALESTINE DURING THE 1800s   WERE, ACCORDING TO THE SYSTEM I SUPPORT---CRIMINALS   ----JUST AS A JEW WHO AS A DOCTOR HAD ARYAN CLIENTS IN 1936  NAZI GERMANY WAS ALSO A "CRIMINAL"        some people do not know your system   TINNY    You might also state that you see no reason to consider the rights of jews living under oppression in islamic lands at that time.      I know many people like you------I grew up in a town in the USA  in which some of the people saw nothing all that wrong with black slavery and would consider a RUNAWAY BLACK SLAVE IN 1855 ALABAMA  a  CRIMINAL
> Have you considered being a consultant for Khartoum in its quest to regain the and enslave southern sudan?



Amazing, all that crapola without addressing my post.


----------



## Billo_Really

P F Tinmore said:


> Amazing, all that crapola without addressing my post.


He doesn't have the balls to address anyone's point.


----------



## irosie91

loinboy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing, all that crapola without addressing my post.
> 
> 
> 
> He doesn't have the balls to address anyone's point.
Click to expand...


    what a joke you are.     some of the idiots on this board  fart out  "LIAR"   and are unable to cite a single "lie"   posted by the victims of their eructations-----and you fart out  "CRIME"  without being able to cite the specific "crime"


----------



## Billo_Really

irosie91 said:


> what a joke you are.     some of the idiots on this board  fart out  "LIAR"   and are unable to cite a single "lie"   posted by the victims of their eructations-----and you fart out  "CRIME"  without being able to cite the specific "crime"


I can cite many specific crimes, asshole.

- the Israeli occupation 
- the Israeli blockade
- the Israeli use of "administrative detention"
- the illegal boarding of an humanitarian aid ship in international waters​
I can name a lot of specific crimes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing, all that crapola without addressing my post.
> 
> 
> 
> He doesn't have the balls to address anyone's point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what a joke you are.     some of the idiots on this board  fart out  "LIAR"   and are unable to cite a single "lie"   posted by the victims of their eructations-----and you fart out  "CRIME"  without being able to cite the specific "crime"
Click to expand...


You are still dancing around the issue in my post.


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> He doesn't have the balls to address anyone's point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what a joke you are.     some of the idiots on this board  fart out  "LIAR"   and are unable to cite a single "lie"   posted by the victims of their eructations-----and you fart out  "CRIME"  without being able to cite the specific "crime"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are still dancing around the issue in my post.
Click to expand...



there is no issue in your post------how is it a criminal like you is not in jail------since you commit crimes incessantly-----you obviously comitted several crimes to obtain the residence in which you live and to obtain your shoes and socks


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> what a joke you are.     some of the idiots on this board  fart out  "LIAR"   and are unable to cite a single "lie"   posted by the victims of their eructations-----and you fart out  "CRIME"  without being able to cite the specific "crime"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are still dancing around the issue in my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> there is no issue in your post------how is it a criminal like you is not in jail------since you commit crimes incessantly-----you obviously comitted several crimes to obtain the residence in which you live and to obtain your shoes and socks
Click to expand...


Cmon, give iro a break, she's at least 90 and was probably never very good in English to start with. She probably had trouble understanding the instructions on her Depends box.


----------



## jillian

P F Tinmore said:


> Amazing, all that crapola without addressing my post.



perhaps the fault is in your never having raised  valid point.


----------



## ima

jillian said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing, all that crapola without addressing my post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> perhaps the fault is in your never having raised  valid point.
Click to expand...


Then prove it's not valid. Sheesh! Better luck next time.


----------



## P F Tinmore

jillian said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing, all that crapola without addressing my post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> perhaps the fault is in your never having raised  valid point.
Click to expand...


This was my post.



> Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.
> 
> Israel is a project of the World Zionist Organization, a foreign organization.
> 
> Israel was established in Palestine without the consent of the people.
> 
> External intervention that violates the right of self determination of a people is a violation of international law.



Nobody has addressed these issues.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing, all that crapola without addressing my post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> perhaps the fault is in your never having raised  valid point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This was my post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.
> 
> Israel is a project of the World Zionist Organization, a foreign organization.
> 
> Israel was established in Palestine without the consent of the people.
> 
> External intervention that violates the right of self determination of a people is a violation of international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nobody has addressed these issues.
Click to expand...

You're correct on those four issues so what's the beef?


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> perhaps the fault is in your never having raised  valid point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was my post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.
> 
> Israel is a project of the World Zionist Organization, a foreign organization.
> 
> Israel was established in Palestine without the consent of the people.
> 
> External intervention that violates the right of self determination of a people is a violation of international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nobody has addressed these issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're correct on those four issues so what's the beef?
Click to expand...

"Israel was established in Palestine without the consent of the people."

Where else on the planet would you support such a crime?

West Virginia, maybe?


----------



## Lipush

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was my post.
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody has addressed these issues.
> 
> 
> 
> You're correct on those four issues so what's the beef?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Israel was established in Palestine without the consent of the people."
> 
> Where else on the planet would you support such a crime?
> 
> West Virginia, maybe?
Click to expand...


Are you Americans aware of how many YOU have slaughtered to get yourself a new homeland?


----------



## ima

Lipush said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're correct on those four issues so what's the beef?
> 
> 
> 
> "Israel was established in Palestine without the consent of the people."
> 
> Where else on the planet would you support such a crime?
> 
> West Virginia, maybe?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you Americans aware of how many YOU have slaughtered to get yourself a new homeland?
Click to expand...

So a) you're admitting to a slaughter by Israelis, and b) we've assumed our fault and have smoked the peace pipe with the indians.


----------



## irosie91

the invasion of Iran by the dogs of arabia  took place without the consent of the persian people   ------find one and talk to him about it


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was my post.
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody has addressed these issues.
> 
> 
> 
> You're correct on those four issues so what's the beef?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Israel was established in Palestine without the consent of the people."
> 
> Where else on the planet would you support such a crime?
> 
> West Virginia, maybe?
Click to expand...

Of course! The Jewish people approved it. There were no Palestinian people around to vote, only a bunch of misplaced Syrians and Jordanians. And down here in Texas, we established a country and didn't ask the Mexicans if they approved or not. As they say, life is a bitch.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lipush said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're correct on those four issues so what's the beef?
> 
> 
> 
> "Israel was established in Palestine without the consent of the people."
> 
> Where else on the planet would you support such a crime?
> 
> West Virginia, maybe?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you Americans aware of how many YOU have slaughtered to get yourself a new homeland?
Click to expand...


Indeed we are. Unfortunately for the Native Americans there was no international law to protect them.

Unfortunately for Israel now there are international laws protecting the Palestinians. The creation of Israel was a violation of several laws.

The Palestinians consistently call for peace based on international law.

Israel rejects this for obvious reasons.


----------



## Lipush

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Israel was established in Palestine without the consent of the people."
> 
> Where else on the planet would you support such a crime?
> 
> West Virginia, maybe?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you Americans aware of how many YOU have slaughtered to get yourself a new homeland?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed we are. Unfortunately for the Native Americans there was no international law to protect them.
> 
> Unfortunately for Israel now there are international laws protecting the Palestinians. The creation of Israel was a violation of several laws.
> 
> The Palestinians consistently call for peace based on international law.
> 
> Israel rejects this for obvious reasons.
Click to expand...


Where are international laws who defend Israelis?


----------



## georgephillip

Lipush said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're correct on those four issues so what's the beef?
> 
> 
> 
> "Israel was established in Palestine without the consent of the people."
> 
> Where else on the planet would you support such a crime?
> 
> West Virginia, maybe?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you Americans aware of how many YOU have slaughtered to get yourself a new homeland?
Click to expand...

I am. I'm also clear on how the US committed the same type of crime by recognizing the (Jewish) State of Israel in 1948. Genocide often result$ in large fortune$ for the cho$en few. Americans wrote the book on that.


----------



## Lipush

georgephillip said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Israel was established in Palestine without the consent of the people."
> 
> Where else on the planet would you support such a crime?
> 
> West Virginia, maybe?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you Americans aware of how many YOU have slaughtered to get yourself a new homeland?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am. I'm also clear on how the US committed the same type of crime by recognizing the (Jewish) State of Israel in 1948. Genocide often result$ in large fortune$ for the cho$en few. Americans wrote the book on that.
Click to expand...


Racognizeing the Jewish state was a genocide?

The Jews of that time were SURVIVORS of GENOCIDE!

You Anti-zionists don't make any sense!


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're correct on those four issues so what's the beef?
> 
> 
> 
> "Israel was established in Palestine without the consent of the people."
> 
> Where else on the planet would you support such a crime?
> 
> West Virginia, maybe?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course! The Jewish people approved it. There were no Palestinian people around to vote, only a bunch of misplaced Syrians and Jordanians. And down here in Texas, we established a country and didn't ask the Mexicans if they approved or not. As they say, life is a bitch.
Click to expand...

Ever notice how often bitch rhymes with rich?

The racists who stole Texas from Mexico and the racists who stole 70% of Mandate Palestine from the majority of Palestinians in 1948, $erved the $ame G-D. That would be the G-D of the Collection Plate, from which today's (rich and other), racist conservatives continue to ba$e their moral authority on.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lipush said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you Americans aware of how many YOU have slaughtered to get yourself a new homeland?
> 
> 
> 
> I am. I'm also clear on how the US committed the same type of crime by recognizing the (Jewish) State of Israel in 1948. Genocide often result$ in large fortune$ for the cho$en few. Americans wrote the book on that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Racognizeing the Jewish state was a genocide?
> 
> The Jews of that time were SURVIVORS of GENOCIDE!
> 
> You Anti-zionists don't make any sense!
Click to expand...


Why should the Palestinians pay for what happened in Europe?


----------



## georgephillip

Lipush said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you Americans aware of how many YOU have slaughtered to get yourself a new homeland?
> 
> 
> 
> I am. I'm also clear on how the US committed the same type of crime by recognizing the (Jewish) State of Israel in 1948. Genocide often result$ in large fortune$ for the cho$en few. Americans wrote the book on that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Racognizeing the Jewish state was a genocide?
> 
> The Jews of that time were SURVIVORS of GENOCIDE!
> 
> You Anti-zionists don't make any sense!
Click to expand...

Genocide was one of the Jewish State's birth pangs:

*"The history of the Palestinian exodus* is closely tied to the events of the war in Palestine, which lasted from 1947 to 1949, and to the political events preceding it. In September 1949, the United Nations Conciliation Commission for Palestine estimated *711,000 Palestinian refugees* existed outside Israel,[25] with about one-quarter of the estimated 160,000 Palestinian Arabs remaining in Israel as 'Internal refugees'.

"The Palestinians say they were evicted at bayonet-point and by panic deliberately incited by the Zionists.[26]"

1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## P F Tinmore

georgephillip said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am. I'm also clear on how the US committed the same type of crime by recognizing the (Jewish) State of Israel in 1948. Genocide often result$ in large fortune$ for the cho$en few. Americans wrote the book on that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Racognizeing the Jewish state was a genocide?
> 
> The Jews of that time were SURVIVORS of GENOCIDE!
> 
> You Anti-zionists don't make any sense!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Genocide was one of the Jewish State's birth pangs:
> 
> *"The history of the Palestinian exodus* is closely tied to the events of the war in Palestine, which lasted from 1947 to 1949, and to the political events preceding it. In September 1949, the United Nations Conciliation Commission for Palestine estimated *711,000 Palestinian refugees* existed outside Israel,[25] with about one-quarter of the estimated 160,000 Palestinian Arabs remaining in Israel as 'Internal refugees'.
> 
> "The Palestinians say they were evicted at bayonet-point and by panic deliberately incited by the Zionists.[26]"
> 
> 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


Indeed, military attacks on civilians is a violation of international law.


----------



## Lipush

georgephillip said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am. I'm also clear on how the US committed the same type of crime by recognizing the (Jewish) State of Israel in 1948. Genocide often result$ in large fortune$ for the cho$en few. Americans wrote the book on that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Racognizeing the Jewish state was a genocide?
> 
> The Jews of that time were SURVIVORS of GENOCIDE!
> 
> You Anti-zionists don't make any sense!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Genocide was one of the Jewish State's birth pangs:
> 
> *"The history of the Palestinian exodus* is closely tied to the events of the war in Palestine, which lasted from 1947 to 1949, and to the political events preceding it. In September 1949, the United Nations Conciliation Commission for Palestine estimated *711,000 Palestinian refugees* existed outside Israel,[25] with about one-quarter of the estimated 160,000 Palestinian Arabs remaining in Israel as 'Internal refugees'.
> 
> "The Palestinians say they were evicted at bayonet-point and by panic deliberately incited by the Zionists.[26]"
> 
> 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


The Palestinian Exodus happened because the PALESTINIANS STARTED A WAR in 1948!

If the would have accepted the Partition plan which was fair to both sides, they would not have been in the situation they are now. Only they are to be blamed for it


----------



## ForeverYoung436

"Genocide" is not the same thing as an "exodus".  Two different words.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lipush said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> Racognizeing the Jewish state was a genocide?
> 
> The Jews of that time were SURVIVORS of GENOCIDE!
> 
> You Anti-zionists don't make any sense!
> 
> 
> 
> Genocide was one of the Jewish State's birth pangs:
> 
> *"The history of the Palestinian exodus* is closely tied to the events of the war in Palestine, which lasted from 1947 to 1949, and to the political events preceding it. In September 1949, the United Nations Conciliation Commission for Palestine estimated *711,000 Palestinian refugees* existed outside Israel,[25] with about one-quarter of the estimated 160,000 Palestinian Arabs remaining in Israel as 'Internal refugees'.
> 
> "The Palestinians say they were evicted at bayonet-point and by panic deliberately incited by the Zionists.[26]"
> 
> 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Exodus happened because the PALESTINIANS STARTED A WAR in 1948!
> 
> If the would have accepted the Partition plan which was fair to both sides, they would not have been in the situation they are now. Only they are to be blamed for it
Click to expand...


The Palestinians were being attacked before 1948.

The Palestinians had every right to reject the plan.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lipush said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you Americans aware of how many YOU have slaughtered to get yourself a new homeland?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed we are. Unfortunately for the Native Americans there was no international law to protect them.
> 
> Unfortunately for Israel now there are international laws protecting the Palestinians. The creation of Israel was a violation of several laws.
> 
> The Palestinians consistently call for peace based on international law.
> 
> Israel rejects this for obvious reasons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where are international laws who defend Israelis?
Click to expand...


Good question. If you find any let me know.


----------



## georgephillip

ForeverYoung436 said:


> "Genocide" is not the same thing as an "exodus".  Two different words.


Genocide may employ mass displacement to achieve its aims:

"While a precise definition varies among genocide scholars, a legal definition is found in the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG). 

"Article 2 of this convention defines genocide as 'any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part...'"

Some founding Zionists made no secret of their plans to "transfer" Palestine's Arab population from the Jewish State.

Genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Israel was established in Palestine without the consent of the people."
> 
> Where else on the planet would you support such a crime?
> 
> West Virginia, maybe?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you Americans aware of how many YOU have slaughtered to get yourself a new homeland?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed we are. Unfortunately for the Native Americans there was no international law to protect them.
> 
> Unfortunately for Israel now there are international laws protecting the Palestinians. The creation of Israel was a violation of several laws.
> 
> The Palestinians consistently call for peace based on international law.
> 
> Israel rejects this for obvious reasons.
Click to expand...

International law is what the UM decrees and it it always tilted away from Israel.No wonder Israel refuses to address those one-sided decisions against Israel. The UM is helpless against common sense.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hossfly said:


> International law is what the UM decrees and it it always tilted away from Israel.No wonder Israel refuses to address those one-sided decisions against Israel. The UM is helpless against common sense.


 _"No one should be punished for a crime they didn't commit"_

That's one of those laws.  If that's moving away from Israel, then that's the right direction to go.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Genocide was one of the Jewish State's birth pangs:
> 
> *"The history of the Palestinian exodus* is closely tied to the events of the war in Palestine, which lasted from 1947 to 1949, and to the political events preceding it. In September 1949, the United Nations Conciliation Commission for Palestine estimated *711,000 Palestinian refugees* existed outside Israel,[25] with about one-quarter of the estimated 160,000 Palestinian Arabs remaining in Israel as 'Internal refugees'.
> 
> "The Palestinians say they were evicted at bayonet-point and by panic deliberately incited by the Zionists.[26]"
> 
> 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Exodus happened because the PALESTINIANS STARTED A WAR in 1948!
> 
> If the would have accepted the Partition plan which was fair to both sides, they would not have been in the situation they are now. Only they are to be blamed for it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were being attacked before 1948.
> 
> The Palestinians had every right to reject the plan.
Click to expand...


The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, as Abba Eban said.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Exodus happened because the PALESTINIANS STARTED A WAR in 1948!
> 
> If the would have accepted the Partition plan which was fair to both sides, they would not have been in the situation they are now. Only they are to be blamed for it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were being attacked before 1948.
> 
> The Palestinians had every right to reject the plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, as Abba Eban said.
Click to expand...


The Palestinians missed the opportunity to give over half of their country to foreigners?

Now *there* is an opportunity worth missing.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were being attacked before 1948.
> 
> The Palestinians had every right to reject the plan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, as Abba Eban said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians missed the opportunity to give over half of their country to foreigners?
> 
> Now *there* is an opportunity worth missing.
Click to expand...


What "country" do the arab squatters and beggars have to give away?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, as Abba Eban said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians missed the opportunity to give over half of their country to foreigners?
> 
> Now *there* is an opportunity worth missing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What "country" do the arab squatters and beggars have to give away?
Click to expand...


Resolution 181 required that it be approved by the Palestinians before partition could be implemented. The Palestinians had the authority to control their land and borders. If they did not have that authority the partition would have taken place without their approval.

The Palestinians are still the only ones who can transfer their land or change their borders. This is something they have never done.


----------



## Lipush

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Genocide was one of the Jewish State's birth pangs:
> 
> *"The history of the Palestinian exodus* is closely tied to the events of the war in Palestine, which lasted from 1947 to 1949, and to the political events preceding it. In September 1949, the United Nations Conciliation Commission for Palestine estimated *711,000 Palestinian refugees* existed outside Israel,[25] with about one-quarter of the estimated 160,000 Palestinian Arabs remaining in Israel as 'Internal refugees'.
> 
> "The Palestinians say they were evicted at bayonet-point and by panic deliberately incited by the Zionists.[26]"
> 
> 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Exodus happened because the PALESTINIANS STARTED A WAR in 1948!
> 
> If the would have accepted the Partition plan which was fair to both sides, they would not have been in the situation they are now. Only they are to be blamed for it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were being attacked before 1948.
> 
> The Palestinians had every right to reject the plan.
Click to expand...


The Palestinians were never being attacked as a nation by any Jewish army before 1948. That is a lie you just made up.

There was no army in the Jewish or Arab ethnic groups before. The nations have guerilla, not army. The Guerilla of the Palestinians where much more agressive toward the Jews than the Jews have ever been toward the Arabs or the British occupiers.


----------



## ima

Lipush said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Exodus happened because the PALESTINIANS STARTED A WAR in 1948!
> 
> If the would have accepted the Partition plan which was fair to both sides, they would not have been in the situation they are now. Only they are to be blamed for it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were being attacked before 1948.
> 
> The Palestinians had every right to reject the plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were never being attacked as a nation by any Jewish army before 1948. That is a lie you just made up.
> 
> There was no army in the Jewish or Arab ethnic groups before. The nations have guerilla, not army. The Guerilla of the Palestinians where much more agressive toward the Jews than the Jews have ever been toward the Arabs or the British occupiers.
Click to expand...


Let's just agree that there was nastiness on BOTH sides. Now why don't we see if we can come up with a peace plan, instead of spending another 10,000 posts arguing whose fault it is. It's BOTH SIDES' fault.


----------



## Lipush

ima said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were being attacked before 1948.
> 
> The Palestinians had every right to reject the plan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were never being attacked as a nation by any Jewish army before 1948. That is a lie you just made up.
> 
> There was no army in the Jewish or Arab ethnic groups before. The nations have guerilla, not army. The Guerilla of the Palestinians where much more agressive toward the Jews than the Jews have ever been toward the Arabs or the British occupiers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's just agree that there was nastiness on BOTH sides. Now why don't we see if we can come up with a peace plan, instead of spending another 10,000 posts arguing whose fault it is. It's BOTH SIDES' fault.
Click to expand...


Ok so if it is, than tell Mr Tinmore to stop the stupid saying of "Palestinians don't need to end the Israeli war". Since, after all, it is BOTH SIDE'S fault.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lipush said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Exodus happened because the PALESTINIANS STARTED A WAR in 1948!
> 
> If the would have accepted the Partition plan which was fair to both sides, they would not have been in the situation they are now. Only they are to be blamed for it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were being attacked before 1948.
> 
> The Palestinians had every right to reject the plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were never being attacked as a nation by any Jewish army before 1948. That is a lie you just made up.
> 
> There was no army in the Jewish or Arab ethnic groups before. The nations have guerilla, not army. The Guerilla of the Palestinians where much more agressive toward the Jews than the Jews have ever been toward the Arabs or the British occupiers.
Click to expand...


There were over 300,000 Palestinian refugees before Israel renamed its terrorists the IDF.


----------



## Lipush

ima said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were being attacked before 1948.
> 
> The Palestinians had every right to reject the plan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were never being attacked as a nation by any Jewish army before 1948. That is a lie you just made up.
> 
> There was no army in the Jewish or Arab ethnic groups before. The nations have guerilla, not army. The Guerilla of the Palestinians where much more agressive toward the Jews than the Jews have ever been toward the Arabs or the British occupiers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's just agree that there was nastiness on BOTH sides. Now why don't we see if we can come up with a peace plan, instead of spending another 10,000 posts arguing whose fault it is. It's BOTH SIDES' fault.
Click to expand...


Btw, do that statement I happen to agree, nonetheless.


----------



## Lipush

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were being attacked before 1948.
> 
> The Palestinians had every right to reject the plan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were never being attacked as a nation by any Jewish army before 1948. That is a lie you just made up.
> 
> There was no army in the Jewish or Arab ethnic groups before. The nations have guerilla, not army. The Guerilla of the Palestinians where much more agressive toward the Jews than the Jews have ever been toward the Arabs or the British occupiers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were over 300,000 Palestinian refugees before Israel renamed its terrorists the IDF.
Click to expand...


Not True.

Pre 1948 there was no such thing as a Palestinien "refugee".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lipush said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were never being attacked as a nation by any Jewish army before 1948. That is a lie you just made up.
> 
> There was no army in the Jewish or Arab ethnic groups before. The nations have guerilla, not army. The Guerilla of the Palestinians where much more agressive toward the Jews than the Jews have ever been toward the Arabs or the British occupiers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's just agree that there was nastiness on BOTH sides. Now why don't we see if we can come up with a peace plan, instead of spending another 10,000 posts arguing whose fault it is. It's BOTH SIDES' fault.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok so if it is, than tell Mr Tinmore to stop the stupid saying of "Palestinians don't need to end the Israeli war". Since, after all, it is BOTH SIDE'S fault.
Click to expand...


The Palestinians were at home, minding their own business, when the Zionists came from Europe to take over the country.

I don't see where The Palestinians have any fault here.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lipush said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were never being attacked as a nation by any Jewish army before 1948. That is a lie you just made up.
> 
> There was no army in the Jewish or Arab ethnic groups before. The nations have guerilla, not army. The Guerilla of the Palestinians where much more agressive toward the Jews than the Jews have ever been toward the Arabs or the British occupiers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were over 300,000 Palestinian refugees before Israel renamed its terrorists the IDF.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not True.
> 
> Pre 1948 there was no such thing as a Palestinien "refugee".
Click to expand...


You need to read up.


----------



## Lipush

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's just agree that there was nastiness on BOTH sides. Now why don't we see if we can come up with a peace plan, instead of spending another 10,000 posts arguing whose fault it is. It's BOTH SIDES' fault.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok so if it is, than tell Mr Tinmore to stop the stupid saying of "Palestinians don't need to end the Israeli war". Since, after all, it is BOTH SIDE'S fault.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home, minding their own business, when the Zionists came from Europe to take over the country.
> 
> I don't see where The Palestinians have any fault here.
Click to expand...


Yeah, the Jews just came to Israel, not ONE SINGLE Jew has any connection to Israel, they have absolutely no History in Israel, or connection, or families, or whatever, they're like aliens, all that while the Arabs never triggered any war, or killed any Jew, or brought their clans of thieves to the land, or built their mosque on the ruins of the Jewish temple, or build their Arab cities upon Jewish graves, or twisted history in their education system.

The Arabs are care bears while the green mean Jews are worse than Voldemort.

Yeah, that must be it.

Talk about propaganda crap. I wonder if you think we drink Palestinian blood in our free time, too.


----------



## Lipush

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were over 300,000 Palestinian refugees before Israel renamed its terrorists the IDF.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not True.
> 
> Pre 1948 there was no such thing as a Palestinien "refugee".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to read up.
Click to expand...


You need to learn more history.

There were no Palestinian refugees before 1948. Because they were not called Palestinians before 1948. They were called the Arabs of the area of Palestine, or the Jews of the area of Palestine.

the JEWS were refugees from Europe before 1948. the Arabs where immigrants from the Arab territory.


----------



## ima

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's just agree that there was nastiness on BOTH sides. Now why don't we see if we can come up with a peace plan, instead of spending another 10,000 posts arguing whose fault it is. It's BOTH SIDES' fault.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok so if it is, than tell Mr Tinmore to stop the stupid saying of "Palestinians don't need to end the Israeli war". Since, after all, it is BOTH SIDE'S fault.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home, minding their own business, when the Zionists came from Europe to take over the country.
> 
> I don't see where The Palestinians have any fault here.
Click to expand...


So Tinman, what would be a solution for you?


----------



## Lipush

ima said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok so if it is, than tell Mr Tinmore to stop the stupid saying of "Palestinians don't need to end the Israeli war". Since, after all, it is BOTH SIDE'S fault.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home, minding their own business, when the Zionists came from Europe to take over the country.
> 
> I don't see where The Palestinians have any fault here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Tinman, what would be a solution for you?
Click to expand...


Let me give you a hint

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSQnfSfAsPM


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians missed the opportunity to give over half of their country to foreigners?
> 
> Now *there* is an opportunity worth missing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "country" do the arab squatters and beggars have to give away?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Resolution 181 required that it be approved by the Palestinians before partition could be implemented. The Palestinians had the authority to control their land and borders. If they did not have that authority the partition would have taken place without their approval.
> 
> The Palestinians are still the only ones who can transfer their land or change their borders. This is something they have never done.
Click to expand...



Resoluion  181 dates back to 1947.    At that time there was no country called  "palestine" and the only people called  "palestinians"  were jews living 
in the  PALESTINE MANDATE.      Some time in the  1960s  ---a group of arabs
who claimed to have lived in palestine for varying periods of time in their lives or whose parents had done so   decided to call themselves  "palestiinians"    In the context of reality your post makes no sense


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lipush said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not True.
> 
> Pre 1948 there was no such thing as a Palestinien "refugee".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to read up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to learn more history.
> 
> There were no Palestinian refugees before 1948. Because they were not called Palestinians before 1948. They were called the Arabs of the area of Palestine, or the Jews of the area of Palestine.
> 
> the JEWS were refugees from Europe before 1948. the Arabs where immigrants from the Arab territory.
Click to expand...




> There were no Palestinian refugees before 1948. Because they were not called Palestinians before 1948.



Oh no, not more of Israel's stupid fucking name game.



> Aside from the myths surrounding the dispossession of the Palestinians, there were other myths promulgated during the 1947 to 1949 time period. It is now documented that this was not a defensive war on the part of the nascent Jewish State. As previously explained, over half the Palestinian villages were depopulated by planned operations carried out before the Arab armies intervened.
> 
> 213 Palestinian villages and towns (population 413,794, 52% of the refugees) were cleansed while under the protection of the British mandate; that is before the start of the Arab-Israeli war on May 15, 1948.
> 
> Palestinian Refugees Right to Return and Repatriation


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to read up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to learn more history.
> 
> There were no Palestinian refugees before 1948. Because they were not called Palestinians before 1948. They were called the Arabs of the area of Palestine, or the Jews of the area of Palestine.
> 
> the JEWS were refugees from Europe before 1948. the Arabs where immigrants from the Arab territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were no Palestinian refugees before 1948. Because they were not called Palestinians before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh no, not more of Israel's stupid fucking name game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aside from the myths surrounding the dispossession of the Palestinians, there were other myths promulgated during the 1947 to 1949 time period. It is now documented that this was not a defensive war on the part of the nascent Jewish State. As previously explained, over half the Palestinian villages were depopulated by planned operations carried out before the Arab armies intervened.
> 
> 213 Palestinian villages and towns (population 413,794, 52% of the refugees) were cleansed while under the protection of the British mandate; that is before the start of the Arab-Israeli war on May 15, 1948.
> 
> Palestinian Refugees Right to Return and Repatriation
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Tinmore,no more swearing or your mouth gets washed out with soap. Besides, it means you're losing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to learn more history.
> 
> There were no Palestinian refugees before 1948. Because they were not called Palestinians before 1948. They were called the Arabs of the area of Palestine, or the Jews of the area of Palestine.
> 
> the JEWS were refugees from Europe before 1948. the Arabs where immigrants from the Arab territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no, not more of Israel's stupid fucking name game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aside from the myths surrounding the dispossession of the Palestinians, there were other myths promulgated during the 1947 to 1949 time period. It is now documented that this was not a defensive war on the part of the nascent Jewish State. As previously explained, over half the Palestinian villages were depopulated by planned operations carried out before the Arab armies intervened.
> 
> 213 Palestinian villages and towns (population 413,794, 52% of the refugees) were cleansed while under the protection of the British mandate; that is before the start of the Arab-Israeli war on May 15, 1948.
> 
> Palestinian Refugees Right to Return and Repatriation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tinmore,no more swearing or your mouth gets washed out with soap. Besides, it means you're losing.
Click to expand...


Not really. It is just aggravating sometimes to wade through the same irrelevant crap every day.


----------



## Lipush

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no, not more of Israel's stupid fucking name game.
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore,no more swearing or your mouth gets washed out with soap. Besides, it means you're losing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not really. It is just aggravating sometimes to wade through the same irrelevant crap every day.
Click to expand...


That's what I'm saying since the beginning. Walk in my shoes for a day.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no, not more of Israel's stupid fucking name game.
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore,no more swearing or your mouth gets washed out with soap. Besides, it means you're losing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not really. It is just aggravating sometimes to wade through the same irrelevant crap every day.
Click to expand...

Were you sentenced to USMB for forty years?


----------



## irosie91

Good news everyone----I have the history from eyewitnesses     The silly jihadist bit  cited by  tinny
is nothing more than jihadist filth     It strives to create the impression that  ALL WAS WELL  until jews started INVADING  and stealing  "muslim land'      Of course the  "stealing of land"  refers to buying it from muslim owners     ----happy to sell-------and in some cases failing to  HIRE the muslim squatters as workers.   Once finished with the first lie ---ie the jihadist claim that  ZIONISTS invaded the land in the late  1800s and early  1900s----the next lie is that post   1945     jews went on an unprovoked rampage of    ETHNIC CLEANSING       Of course the jihadists  leave out the fact of the  throat slitting parties which led to the  ethnic cleansing of entire jewish cities that had been jewish cities for THOUSANDS OF YEARS    and the big event    the  SIEGE OF JERUSALEM OF 1947  during which time happy jihadists went about throat slitting and shooting ------causing the COMPREHENSIVE  ethnic cleaning of the thousands of year old  jewish population of  east jerusalem-----and best all for Tinny-----even the total trashing of ancient synagogues and cemetaries     ----a symbolic jesture  similar to the bombing of  Buddhist art in Afghanistan carried out for the same reason ----also by JIHADIST PIGS----

The jihadist dog and pig program  took place long before those kids in the pictures walked down the road   UNMOLESTED ----to avoid the JIHADIST PROVOKED CONFLICT   that lay ahead thanks to the   actions of their fellow jihadist pigs and dogs

I have it from eyewitnesses  ------that even as the UN was in session regarding the issue of   "PARTITION OF PALESTINE-----whole enclaves of arab squatters living near  such  JEWISH CITIES as  "RISHON le TZION"  founded in  1882-------began TAKING A PEACEFUL walk  -------with their household goods and their donkeys----quietly and unmolested

later on there were fights in Terrorist enclaves such as  DEIR YASSIN -----the enclave most responsible for maintaning the  DEADLY SIEGE OF EAST JERUSALEM-----ie the  jihadist filth ethnic cleansing of the old city which  commenced  LONG BEFORE THE PARTITION VOTE


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lipush said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore,no more swearing or your mouth gets washed out with soap. Besides, it means you're losing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. It is just aggravating sometimes to wade through the same irrelevant crap every day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's what I'm saying since the beginning. Walk in my shoes for a day.
Click to expand...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeF7jqf0GU4&feature=related]THE NAME GAME SHIRLEY ELLIS - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Lipush

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. It is just aggravating sometimes to wade through the same irrelevant crap every day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I'm saying since the beginning. Walk in my shoes for a day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeF7jqf0GU4&feature=related]THE NAME GAME SHIRLEY ELLIS - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...


Hey, that's catchy!


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> _The Palestinians were at home, minding their own business, when the Zionists came from Europe to take over the country._


If palistanians had been sitting at home, minding their own business, they'd still have been in "their countries", of course.


----------



## ima

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The Palestinians were at home, minding their own business, when the Zionists came from Europe to take over the country._
> 
> 
> 
> If palistanians had been sitting at home, minding their own business, they'd still have been in "their countries", of course.
Click to expand...


Of course, if religion was never INVENTED, there would be no problems.


----------



## Hossfly

ima said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The Palestinians were at home, minding their own business, when the Zionists came from Europe to take over the country._
> 
> 
> 
> If palistanians had been sitting at home, minding their own business, they'd still have been in "their countries", of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course, if religion was never INVENTED, there would be no problems.
Click to expand...

Then you will have to blame Mohommud as he created the only "religion."


----------



## irosie91

from an adulator of infant throat slitters

"The Palestinians were at home, minding their own business, when the Zionists came from Europe to take over the country."


   The term  "palestinians"   for over 2000 years referred ONLY to jews----until sometime in the 1960s when some arabs  ADOPTED the term for themselves      Jews who migrated to palestine were called  "PALESTINIANS"    by the first day of their arrival.   Jihadist pigs always allude to propaganda which suggests that   "zionists"  refers to  "european jews"    In fact among the earliest and most ARDENT zionists were escapees from the disgusting filth of islamic oppression in lands that had been invaded in the past several hundred years by the dogs of arabia ----most of them in North Africa      -----but jihadist pigs prefer to IGNORE  that group


----------



## ima

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If palistanians had been sitting at home, minding their own business, they'd still have been in "their countries", of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, if religion was never INVENTED, there would be no problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then you will have to blame Mohommud as he created the only "religion."
Click to expand...


Who created your religion?


----------



## Hossfly

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, if religion was never INVENTED, there would be no problems.
> 
> 
> 
> Then you will have to blame Mohommud as he created the only "religion."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who created your religion?
Click to expand...

I don't have a religion, because I have never read or heard of religion in the OT. Back in the time of the Patriachs, God instructed people to be righteous. He didn't say religious. I strive to be righteous. Next question.


----------



## ima

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then you will have to blame Mohommud as he created the only "religion."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who created your religion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't have a religion, because I have never read or heard of religion in the OT. Back in the time of the Patriachs, God instructed people to be righteous. He didn't say religious. I strive to be righteous. Next question.
Click to expand...


So where is this "god"?


----------



## Hossfly

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who created your religion?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have a religion, because I have never read or heard of religion in the OT. Back in the time of the Patriachs, God instructed people to be righteous. He didn't say religious. I strive to be righteous. Next question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So where is this "god"?
Click to expand...

Right here, beside me.


----------



## ima

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have a religion, because I have never read or heard of religion in the OT. Back in the time of the Patriachs, God instructed people to be righteous. He didn't say religious. I strive to be righteous. Next question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So where is this "god"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right here, beside me.
Click to expand...

Oh, you mean your imaginary friend.


----------



## psed007

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> So where is this "god"?
> 
> 
> 
> Right here, beside me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, you mean your imaginary friend.
Click to expand...

OT is only the book of the books. It doesn't describe that we should make a religion out of it. Religion is the explanation of god. The OT is the explanation of us. G'd is universal and can not be explained. Do not even try it.


----------



## psed007

I don't understand the discussion of this issue. The first jewish temple was build in 957 BCE. That is around 2969 years ago. Furthermore israel has around  8 Million population. 2 millions are non jewish citizens. Would like to see this ratio in arab countries. Around 830 BC !!! (thats 2842 years ago) the territory were divided by 3 land. The kingdom of ISRAEL. The kingdom of JUDAH and of course the philistine states the "Philistine Pentapolis" (thats where the gaza strip is now). Beside the philistines have a little common with the modern palestinian people. Why this is so hard to understand ? I think the problem is that the people denying their history furthermore they take any historic events as a lie !?!?!. They claim they have the right for something by history but don't take care about history. That is a bit Schizophren. People want to have peace but they would like to kill all jews also. If arabs would lay down their weapons there would be peace, if the israelis would lay down thier weapons they would be dead. Very simple. Arabs are a little behind in our history. Around 500 years. They have to learn what is peace and human rights. But we can not allow them to develop as the like, because we would have more dead people. Just look the governments they established. Terrible!!! The only solution to the problem would be: Modern palestinians stop they criminal activities and start working towards an own state. If you wanna have freedom work for it !!!


----------



## pbel

psed007 said:


> I don't understand the discussion of this issue. The first jewish temple was build in 957 BCE. That is around 2969 years ago. Furthermore israel has around  8 Million population. 2 millions are non jewish citizens. Would like to see this ratio in arab countries. Around 830 BC !!! (thats 2842 years ago) the territory were divided by 3 land. The kingdom of ISRAEL. The kingdom of JUDAH and of course the philistine states the "Philistine Pentapolis" (thats where the gaza strip is now). Beside the philistines have a little common with the modern palestinian people. Why this is so hard to understand ? I think the problem is that the people denying their history furthermore they take any historic events as a lie !?!?!. They claim they have the right for something by history but don't take care about history. That is a bit Schizophren. People want to have peace but they would like to kill all jews also. If arabs would lay down their weapons there would be peace, if the israelis would lay down thier weapons they would be dead. Very simple. Arabs are a little behind in our history. Around 500 years. They have to learn what is peace and human rights. But we can not allow them to develop as the like, because we would have more dead people. Just look the governments they established. Terrible!!! The only solution to the problem would be: Modern palestinians stop they criminal activities and start working towards an own state. If you wanna have freedom work for it !!!



The problem with your analysis is that you compare apples with turnips or Western educated Israelis with Arab Culture which may yet Democratize, but have been held back by the yoke of Western Colonialisms...

Also the ancient claim to the land is so ludicrous that to accept that claim would literally shuffle all of Earths Political borders.

Israel needs to accept a two state solution...the Arabs are not going to be cowered by a Western Colonial outpost...Israel needs to become part of the fabric of the ME by peace, trading and even teaching their enemies to prosper as they have...

Then the Arabs will love them.


----------



## irosie91

Arab Culture which may yet Democratize, but have been held back by the yoke of Western Colonialisms...

      you got that one ALMOST right-----now try again----

THE REASON ARABS HAVE BEEN SO BARBARIC AND ILLITERATE FOR THE PAST 1400 YEARS IS BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN OPPRESSED BY THE ZIONIST CONTROLLED CIA.     IF NOT FOR THE WICKED MACHINATIONS OF THE ZIONIST CONTROLLED CIA,  MUHUMMAD WOULD HAVE BEEN A HARVARD TRAINED LAWYER


----------



## docmauser1

ima said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The Palestinians were at home, minding their own business, when the Zionists came from Europe to take over the country._
> 
> 
> 
> If palistanians had been sitting at home, minding their own business, they'd still have been in "their countries", of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Of course, if religion was never INVENTED, there would be no problems._
Click to expand...

And no law as we know it, of course.


----------



## docmauser1

pbel said:


> _The problem with your analysis is that you compare apples with turnips or Western educated Israelis with Arab Culture which may yet Democratize, but have been held back by the yoke of Western Colonialisms..._


The use of the word "may" is cool, of course. But for now the EuroNews channel aired a fem demonstration in Tunisia, protesting a proposed curtailing of the fem rights. Dooh, bubbah.


pbel said:


> _Also the ancient claim to the land is so ludicrous that to accept that claim would literally shuffle all of Earths Political borders._


Let us recall an interesting resolution 242, "Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war ..." etc,. According to the "inadmissibility", originating from the Briand-Kellogg pact, the EU and russians borders must be redrawn to their pre-war status, and it doesn't matter, if anyone disputes them, or not. Once the inadmissibility is envoked, the euros should be running redrawing borders, otherwise, the concept, exclusively applied to Israel (which isn't even a signatory to the Briand-Kellogg), is both bogus and a bogus excuse, of course.


pbel said:


> _Israel needs to accept a two state solution..._


Wishes of others aren't israeli needs, of course. And since palistanians want a state a jewish one too, it's a no-solution.


pbel said:


> _the Arabs are not going to be cowered by a Western Colonial outpost...Israel needs to become part of the fabric of the ME by peace, trading and even teaching their enemies to prosper as they have...Then the Arabs will love them._


Once arabs dispence with the idea of arab neocolonialism, it'll be allright, of course.


----------



## georgephillip

*"The parallels between Israel and Ireland are almost eerie*, unless one remembers that the latter was the laboratory for British colonialism. 

"As in Ulster, Israeli settlers in the Occupied Territories have special privileges that divide them from Palestinians (and other Israelis as well). As in Ireland, Israeli settlers rely on the military to protect them from the 'natives.' 

"And as in Northern Ireland, there are political organizations, like the National Religious Party and the Moledet Party, which whip up sectarian hatred, and keep the population divided. 

"The latter two parties both advocate the forcible transfer of all Arabs*Palestinians and Israelis alike*to Jordan and Egypt."

Divide and Conquer as Imperial Rules | FPIF


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _"The parallels between Israel and Ireland are almost eerie, unless one remembers that the latter was the laboratory for British colonialism. "As in Ulster, Israeli settlers in the Occupied Territories have special privileges that divide them from Palestinians (and other Israelis as well). As in Ireland, Israeli settlers rely on the military to protect them from the 'natives.' "And as in Northern Ireland, ... lalalala, fpif.org_


fpif - a project of the Soros-funded Institute for Policy Studies.


----------



## psed007

pbel said:


> psed007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand the discussion of this issue. The first jewish temple was build in 957 BCE. That is around 2969 years ago. Furthermore israel has around  8 Million population. 2 millions are non jewish citizens. Would like to see this ratio in arab countries. Around 830 BC !!! (thats 2842 years ago) the territory were divided by 3 land. The kingdom of ISRAEL. The kingdom of JUDAH and of course the philistine states the "Philistine Pentapolis" (thats where the gaza strip is now). Beside the philistines have a little common with the modern palestinian people. Why this is so hard to understand ? I think the problem is that the people denying their history furthermore they take any historic events as a lie !?!?!. They claim they have the right for something by history but don't take care about history. That is a bit Schizophren. People want to have peace but they would like to kill all jews also. If arabs would lay down their weapons there would be peace, if the israelis would lay down thier weapons they would be dead. Very simple. Arabs are a little behind in our history. Around 500 years. They have to learn what is peace and human rights. But we can not allow them to develop as the like, because we would have more dead people. Just look the governments they established. Terrible!!! The only solution to the problem would be: Modern palestinians stop they criminal activities and start working towards an own state. If you wanna have freedom work for it !!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with your analysis is that you compare apples with turnips or Western educated Israelis with Arab Culture which may yet Democratize, but have been held back by the yoke of Western Colonialisms...
> 
> Also the ancient claim to the land is so ludicrous that to accept that claim would literally shuffle all of Earths Political borders.
> 
> Israel needs to accept a two state solution...the Arabs are not going to be cowered by a Western Colonial outpost...Israel needs to become part of the fabric of the ME by peace, trading and even teaching their enemies to prosper as they have...
> 
> Then the Arabs will love them.
Click to expand...


Ok. But..it would be like native americans (indians) would claim their own state. So far so good. but (again To claim a state or to establish one are two different things. The palestinian leaders have to f.idea how to manage that. First the have to agree with themselves. Second they have to get money. Third they have to stop all criminal activities on this scale. Fourth they have to gain trust. Where would we end up if all minorities all over the world would claim their own state ?


----------



## ima

docmauser1 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If palistanians had been sitting at home, minding their own business, they'd still have been in "their countries", of course.
> 
> 
> 
> _Of course, if religion was never INVENTED, there would be no problems._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And no law as we know it, of course.
Click to expand...


That's like saying we would have never had any scientific discoveries without religion. The two things are not related.


----------



## High_Gravity

psed007 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> psed007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand the discussion of this issue. The first jewish temple was build in 957 BCE. That is around 2969 years ago. Furthermore israel has around  8 Million population. 2 millions are non jewish citizens. Would like to see this ratio in arab countries. Around 830 BC !!! (thats 2842 years ago) the territory were divided by 3 land. The kingdom of ISRAEL. The kingdom of JUDAH and of course the philistine states the "Philistine Pentapolis" (thats where the gaza strip is now). Beside the philistines have a little common with the modern palestinian people. Why this is so hard to understand ? I think the problem is that the people denying their history furthermore they take any historic events as a lie !?!?!. They claim they have the right for something by history but don't take care about history. That is a bit Schizophren. People want to have peace but they would like to kill all jews also. If arabs would lay down their weapons there would be peace, if the israelis would lay down thier weapons they would be dead. Very simple. Arabs are a little behind in our history. Around 500 years. They have to learn what is peace and human rights. But we can not allow them to develop as the like, because we would have more dead people. Just look the governments they established. Terrible!!! The only solution to the problem would be: Modern palestinians stop they criminal activities and start working towards an own state. If you wanna have freedom work for it !!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with your analysis is that you compare apples with turnips or Western educated Israelis with Arab Culture which may yet Democratize, but have been held back by the yoke of Western Colonialisms...
> 
> Also the ancient claim to the land is so ludicrous that to accept that claim would literally shuffle all of Earths Political borders.
> 
> Israel needs to accept a two state solution...the Arabs are not going to be cowered by a Western Colonial outpost...Israel needs to become part of the fabric of the ME by peace, trading and even teaching their enemies to prosper as they have...
> 
> Then the Arabs will love them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok. But..it would be like native americans (indians) would claim their own state. So far so good. but (again To claim a state or to establish one are two different things. The palestinian leaders have to f.idea how to manage that. First the have to agree with themselves. Second they have to get money. Third they have to stop all criminal activities on this scale. Fourth they have to gain trust. Where would we end up if all minorities all over the world would claim their own state ?
Click to expand...


The Palestinians right now are surviving off the aid moneys given by other countries, how would they be if the gravy train stopped?


----------



## ima

High_Gravity said:


> psed007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with your analysis is that you compare apples with turnips or Western educated Israelis with Arab Culture which may yet Democratize, but have been held back by the yoke of Western Colonialisms...
> 
> Also the ancient claim to the land is so ludicrous that to accept that claim would literally shuffle all of Earths Political borders.
> 
> Israel needs to accept a two state solution...the Arabs are not going to be cowered by a Western Colonial outpost...Israel needs to become part of the fabric of the ME by peace, trading and even teaching their enemies to prosper as they have...
> 
> Then the Arabs will love them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok. But..it would be like native americans (indians) would claim their own state. So far so good. but (again To claim a state or to establish one are two different things. The palestinian leaders have to f.idea how to manage that. First the have to agree with themselves. Second they have to get money. Third they have to stop all criminal activities on this scale. Fourth they have to gain trust. Where would we end up if all minorities all over the world would claim their own state ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians right now are surviving off the aid moneys given by other countries, how would they be if the gravy train stopped?
Click to expand...

How would Israel survive if the US cut off the gravy train themselves?


----------



## docmauser1

ima said:


> _That's like saying we would have never had any scientific discoveries without religion. The two things are not related._


Tenets of religion of atheism, of course.


----------



## irosie91

To be accurate----lots of scientific discoveries are related ----loosely,  to religion.    The religion of the ancient Egyptians galvanized them to create embalming methods that still dazzle scientists   as do their precision techniques in building.   The zoroastrians of ancient Persia were into both STARS  and  FIRE   in their religion------and they are the early and very accurate   ASTRONOMERS    ~~~~la la la la   we 3 kings of orient are----bearing gifts etc etc  la la la   FOLLOWING YONDER STAR        The search for the  "SOUL"   is actually the beginning of lots of medical and human physiology research  -------the very early description of  "brain waves"   (those things read on ELETROENCEPHALOGRAMS)    started out as a kind of search for the SOUL     (which everyone knows is embedded in the pineal gland)


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"The parallels between Israel and Ireland are almost eerie, unless one remembers that the latter was the laboratory for British colonialism. "As in Ulster, Israeli settlers in the Occupied Territories have special privileges that divide them from Palestinians (and other Israelis as well). As in Ireland, Israeli settlers rely on the military to protect them from the 'natives.' "And as in Northern Ireland, ... lalalala, fpif.org_
> 
> 
> 
> fpif - a project of the Soros-funded Institute for Policy Studies.
Click to expand...

*Did Soros induce Begin and Sharon to violate International Law?*

"Ariel Sharon and former Prime Minister Menachem Begin normally take credit for creating the 'facts on the ground' policies that have *poured more than 420,000 settlers into the Occupied Territories*. But they were simply copying Charles I, the English King, who in 1609 forcibly removed the O&#8217;Neill and O&#8217;Donnell clans from the north of Ireland, moved in 20,000 English and Scottish Protestants, and founded the Plantation of Ulster.

"The 'removal' was never really meant to cleanse Ulster of the Irish. Native labor was essential to the Plantation&#8217;s success and within 15 years more than 4,000 native Irish tenants and their families were back in Ulster. 

"But they lived in a land divided into religious castes, with the Protestant invaders on top and the Catholic natives on the bottom.

"Protestants were awarded the '*Ulster privilege*' which gave them special access to land and lower rents, and also served to divide them from the native Catholics. The 'Ulster Privilege' is not dissimilar to the kind of 'privilege' Israeli settlers enjoy in the Territories today, where their mortgages are cheap, their taxes lower and their education subsidized."

Divide and Conquer as Imperial Rules | FPIF

Any evidence Jewish settlers depend on the IDF for their *"Jerusalem privilege today?"*


----------



## irosie91

There is very little comparison between the british exploitation of Ireland which has been going on for more than 1000 years   and the relationship between  the west bank "palestinians: and Israel -------I do not recall  Ireland as initiating a war against   England  1000 years ago  ----well---I mean I never read anything that suggested that happened       In Ireland were the Irish screaming  DEATH TO THE BRITS  for centuries and slitting little english throats?     What  England did to Ireland was ---without provocation ----enslave it      Israel wan a war against arabs which arabs initiated   1400 years ago and counting


----------



## georgephillip

irosie91 said:


> There is very little comparison between the british exploitation of Ireland which has been going on for more than 1000 years   and the relationship between  the west bank "palestinians: and Israel -------I do not recall  Ireland as initiating a war against   England  1000 years ago  ----well---I mean I never read anything that suggested that happened       In Ireland were the Irish screaming  DEATH TO THE BRITS  for centuries and slitting little english throats?     What  England did to Ireland was ---without provocation ----enslave it      Israel wan a war against arabs which arabs initiated   1400 years ago and counting


1948, rosie.
650,000 Jews imposed a Jewish state by force of arms on 1.2 million Arabs and others.
That crime occurred because western empires, British and US, required a "little loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism."

The Racist State of Israel is headed for the same fate as South Africa and Selma, Alabama.
The world is losing its patience with the "Chosen People."


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> *"The parallels between Israel and Ireland are almost eerie*, unless one remembers that the latter was the laboratory for British colonialism.
> 
> "As in Ulster, Israeli settlers in the Occupied Territories have special privileges that divide them from Palestinians (and other Israelis as well). As in Ireland, Israeli settlers rely on the military to protect them from the 'natives.'
> 
> "And as in Northern Ireland, there are political organizations, like the National Religious Party and the Moledet Party, which whip up sectarian hatred, and keep the population divided.
> 
> "The latter two parties both advocate the forcible transfer of all Arabs*Palestinians and Israelis alike*to Jordan and Egypt."
> 
> Divide and Conquer as Imperial Rules | FPIF



So what? 
NRP has been defunct _for years_ and Moledat has never had more than 3 (out of 120) members of the Knessett.
Do you suppose those extremist attitudes some Israelis hhold have anything to do with the Intifadas? 
Or perhaps they are just a rational response to the Hamas Charter:
"Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and ... are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement." 
"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."


----------



## SAYIT

pbel said:


> psed007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand the discussion of this issue. The first jewish temple was build in 957 BCE. That is around 2969 years ago. Furthermore israel has around  8 Million population. 2 millions are non jewish citizens. Would like to see this ratio in arab countries. Around 830 BC !!! (thats 2842 years ago) the territory were divided by 3 land. The kingdom of ISRAEL. The kingdom of JUDAH and of course the philistine states the "Philistine Pentapolis" (thats where the gaza strip is now). Beside the philistines have a little common with the modern palestinian people. Why this is so hard to understand ? I think the problem is that the people denying their history furthermore they take any historic events as a lie !?!?!. They claim they have the right for something by history but don't take care about history. That is a bit Schizophren. People want to have peace but they would like to kill all jews also. If arabs would lay down their weapons there would be peace, if the israelis would lay down thier weapons they would be dead. Very simple. Arabs are a little behind in our history. Around 500 years. They have to learn what is peace and human rights. But we can not allow them to develop as the like, because we would have more dead people. Just look the governments they established. Terrible!!! The only solution to the problem would be: Modern palestinians stop they criminal activities and start working towards an own state. If you wanna have freedom work for it !!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with your analysis is that you compare apples with turnips or Western educated Israelis with Arab Culture which may yet Democratize, but have been held back by the yoke of Western Colonialisms...
Click to expand...


Really? 
Mideast Arab scholars when freed from hang-wringing, bleeding-heart apologists like you readily admit that tribalism, tradition, misogyny, racism, intolerance, self-imposed and strictly enforced ignorance, anti-modernity, and their Arab/Muslim culture is the yoke which enslaves hundreds of millions of their people.
The fact is Chicken Little mother hens like you are the yoke which holds them back.


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is very little comparison between the british exploitation of Ireland which has been going on for more than 1000 years   and the relationship between  the west bank "palestinians: and Israel -------I do not recall  Ireland as initiating a war against   England  1000 years ago  ----well---I mean I never read anything that suggested that happened       In Ireland were the Irish screaming  DEATH TO THE BRITS  for centuries and slitting little english throats?     What  England did to Ireland was ---without provocation ----enslave it      Israel wan a war against arabs which arabs initiated   1400 years ago and counting
> 
> 
> 
> 1948, rosie.
> 650,000 Jews imposed a Jewish state by force of arms on 1.2 million Arabs and others.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny one such as you would mention "force of arms" and 1948 in the same breath:
> 'Within hours of the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, five of the seven countries of the Arab League at that time, namely Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, backed by Saudi Arabian and Yemenite contingents invaded territory in the former British Mandate of Palestine..."
> Obviously the "arms" you mention were that of the combined forces of 7 surrounding Arab states.
> 1948 Arab
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"The parallels between Israel and Ireland are almost eerie*, unless one remembers that the latter was the laboratory for British colonialism.
> 
> "As in Ulster, Israeli settlers in the Occupied Territories have special privileges that divide them from Palestinians (and other Israelis as well). As in Ireland, Israeli settlers rely on the military to protect them from the 'natives.'
> 
> "And as in Northern Ireland, there are political organizations, like the National Religious Party and the Moledet Party, which whip up sectarian hatred, and keep the population divided.
> 
> "The latter two parties both advocate the forcible transfer of all Arabs*Palestinians and Israelis alike*to Jordan and Egypt."
> 
> Divide and Conquer as Imperial Rules | FPIF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what?
> NRP has been defunct _for years_ and Moledat has never had more than 3 (out of 120) members of the Knessett.
> Do you suppose those extremist attitudes some Israelis hhold have anything to do with the Intifadas?
> Or perhaps they are just a rational response to the Hamas Charter:
> "Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and ... are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement."
> "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."
Click to expand...

So racist rabbis employed by the State of Israel are having no problem extending religious fascism among the "chosen people."

"More than 50 of Israel's leading rabbis have issued a religious decree forbidding Jews from renting or selling homes or land to non-Jews &#8211; namely, Arabs, migrant workers and African refugees. The letter was signed by rabbis across the country (*many of whom are employed by the state as municipal religious leaders*) and urged Jews to first warn and then 'ostracise' fellow Jews who disobey the edict.

*"It's just the latest wave in a rising tide of religious fascism."*

Israeli rabbis' racist decree strikes at the soul of Judaism | Mya Guarnieri | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk


----------



## pbel

SAYIT said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> psed007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand the discussion of this issue. The first jewish temple was build in 957 BCE. That is around 2969 years ago. Furthermore israel has around  8 Million population. 2 millions are non jewish citizens. Would like to see this ratio in arab countries. Around 830 BC !!! (thats 2842 years ago) the territory were divided by 3 land. The kingdom of ISRAEL. The kingdom of JUDAH and of course the philistine states the "Philistine Pentapolis" (thats where the gaza strip is now). Beside the philistines have a little common with the modern palestinian people. Why this is so hard to understand ? I think the problem is that the people denying their history furthermore they take any historic events as a lie !?!?!. They claim they have the right for something by history but don't take care about history. That is a bit Schizophren. People want to have peace but they would like to kill all jews also. If arabs would lay down their weapons there would be peace, if the israelis would lay down thier weapons they would be dead. Very simple. Arabs are a little behind in our history. Around 500 years. They have to learn what is peace and human rights. But we can not allow them to develop as the like, because we would have more dead people. Just look the governments they established. Terrible!!! The only solution to the problem would be: Modern palestinians stop they criminal activities and start working towards an own state. If you wanna have freedom work for it !!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with your analysis is that you compare apples with turnips or Western educated Israelis with Arab Culture which may yet Democratize, but have been held back by the yoke of Western Colonialisms...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really?
> Mideast Arab scholars when freed from hang-wringing, bleeding-heart apologists like you readily admit that tribalism, tradition, misogyny, racism, intolerance, self-imposed and strictly enforced ignorance, anti-modernity, and their Arab/Muslim culture is the yoke which enslaves hundreds of millions of their people.
> The fact is Chicken Little mother hens like you are the yoke which holds them back.
Click to expand...


Let's face it Sniffer, you don't belong in these discussion boards. You belong in the annals of prehistoric history sucking off dinosaurs.


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"The parallels between Israel and Ireland are almost eerie*, unless one remembers that the latter was the laboratory for British colonialism.
> 
> "As in Ulster, Israeli settlers in the Occupied Territories have special privileges that divide them from Palestinians (and other Israelis as well). As in Ireland, Israeli settlers rely on the military to protect them from the 'natives.'
> 
> "And as in Northern Ireland, there are political organizations, like the National Religious Party and the Moledet Party, which whip up sectarian hatred, and keep the population divided.
> 
> "The latter two parties both advocate the forcible transfer of all Arabs*Palestinians and Israelis alike*to Jordan and Egypt."
> 
> Divide and Conquer as Imperial Rules | FPIF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what?
> NRP has been defunct _for years_ and Moledat has never had more than 3 (out of 120) members of the Knessett.
> Do you suppose those extremist attitudes some Israelis hhold have anything to do with the Intifadas?
> Or perhaps they are just a rational response to the Hamas Charter:
> "Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and ... are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement."
> "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So racist rabbis employed by the State of Israel are having no problem extending religious fascism among the "chosen people."
Click to expand...


Another of your lame deflections. The opinion piece to which I responded excoriates Israel for having extremists and I proved that the piece was groundless propaganda, and using the term "religious fascism" to describe what those extremist rabbis did is nothing more than verbal terrorism. The author of that piece is well known for her anti-Israel views (yeah, Israel has people like that, too) and knowingly lied about the what she claimed was the dearth of complaint about "fatwa" issued by those rabbis.
As always you have nothing but your hatred. It must suck to have to live your life.


----------



## SAYIT

pbel said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with your analysis is that you compare apples with turnips or Western educated Israelis with Arab Culture which may yet Democratize, but have been held back by the yoke of Western Colonialisms...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
> Mideast Arab scholars when freed from hang-wringing, bleeding-heart apologists like you readily admit that tribalism, tradition, misogyny, racism, intolerance, self-imposed and strictly enforced ignorance, anti-modernity, and their Arab/Muslim culture is the yoke which enslaves hundreds of millions of their people.
> The fact is Chicken Little mother hens like you are the yoke which holds them back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's face it Sniffer, you don't belong in these discussion boards. You belong in the annals of prehistoric history sucking off dinosaurs.
Click to expand...


Another "brilliant" response from this board's finest "scolar." Obviously you still have nothing to offer after all these years (but your English has gotten _much_ better).


----------



## pbel

SAYIT said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
> Mideast Arab scholars when freed from hang-wringing, bleeding-heart apologists like you readily admit that tribalism, tradition, misogyny, racism, intolerance, self-imposed and strictly enforced ignorance, anti-modernity, and their Arab/Muslim culture is the yoke which enslaves hundreds of millions of their people.
> The fact is Chicken Little mother hens like you are the yoke which holds them back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's face it Sniffer, you don't belong in these discussion boards. You belong in the annals of prehistoric history sucking off dinosaurs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another "brilliant" response from this board's finest "scolar." Obviously you still have nothing to offer after all these years (but your English has gotten _much_ better).
Click to expand...


*

So alone, I turned
Towards the last circle
Of this hell

And there I felt
The presence of 
The evil ZioNazi Master...

And I could not
Believe my eyes
It was

Adolph Hitler smiling
And waving as though as
He was the ringmaster in this

Evil Circus...He had Sniffer clutched
In one hand and Rafipoe
in the other...

Twisting snarling, he pointed towards
The light and I gratefully
Nodded and finally exited this 

Hell...

  " E quindi uscimo, a rivedir le stelle! "

*


----------



## Hossfly

pbel said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's face it Sniffer, you don't belong in these discussion boards. You belong in the annals of prehistoric history sucking off dinosaurs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another "brilliant" response from this board's finest "scolar." Obviously you still have nothing to offer after all these years (but your English has gotten _much_ better).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *
> 
> So alone, I turned
> Towards the last circle
> Of this hell
> 
> And there I felt
> The presence of
> The evil ZioNazi Master...
> 
> And I could not
> Believe my eyes
> It was
> 
> Adolph Hitler smiling
> And waving as though as
> He was the ringmaster in this
> 
> Evil Circus...He had Sniffer clutched
> In one hand and Rafipoe
> in the other...
> 
> Twisting snarling, he pointed towards
> The light and I gratefully
> Nodded and finally exited this
> 
> Hell...
> 
> " E quindi uscimo, a rivedir le stelle! "
> 
> *
Click to expand...

Pbel, you been lickin' them toads again? You know, the kind that get you high?


----------



## pbel

Hossfly said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another "brilliant" response from this board's finest "scolar." Obviously you still have nothing to offer after all these years (but your English has gotten _much_ better).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> So alone, I turned
> Towards the last circle
> Of this hell
> 
> And there I felt
> The presence of
> The evil ZioNazi Master...
> 
> And I could not
> Believe my eyes
> It was
> 
> Adolph Hitler smiling
> And waving as though as
> He was the ringmaster in this
> 
> Evil Circus...He had Sniffer clutched
> In one hand and Rafipoe
> in the other...
> 
> Twisting snarling, he pointed towards
> The light and I gratefully
> Nodded and finally exited this
> 
> Hell...
> 
> " E quindi uscimo, a rivedir le stelle! "
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pbel, you been lickin' them toads again? You know, the kind that get you high?
Click to expand...


Now, you'all keep dem toads but send over some moonshine! Haven't had any that good stuff since Camp Lejeune, N.C.


----------



## ima

pbel said:


> Now, you'all keep dem toads but send over some moonshine! Haven't had any that good stuff since Camp Lejeune, N.C.



I bet you hosted a lot of "don't ask, don't tell" parties.


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"The parallels between Israel and Ireland are almost eerie, unless one remembers that the latter was the laboratory for British colonialism. "As in Ulster, Israeli settlers in the Occupied Territories have special privileges that divide them from Palestinians (and other Israelis as well). As in Ireland, Israeli settlers rely on the military to protect them from the 'natives.' "And as in Northern Ireland, ... lalalala, fpif.org_
> 
> 
> 
> fpif - a project of the Soros-funded Institute for Policy Studies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Did Soros induce Begin and Sharon to violate International Law?_
Click to expand...

Nah, he "induces" driveling it up, of course.


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _650,000 Jews imposed a Jewish state by force of arms on 1.2 million Arabs and others._


In memorable words of the Peel report "The only solution of tile problem put forward by the Arab Higher Committee was the immediate establishment of all independent Arab Government, which would deal with the 400.000 Jews now in Palestine as it thought fit." Like killing jews and plundering of the jewish infidel property, of course. And then arabs get kicked in the arse, naturally.


georgephillip said:


> _That crime occurred because western empires, British and US, required a "little loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism."_


Did Soros say that?


georgephillip said:


> _The Racist State of Israel is headed for the same fate as South Africa and Selma, Alabama._


And which way is the black racist state of South Africa heading?


georgephillip said:


> _The world is losing its patience with the "Chosen People."_


Palistanians?


----------



## pbel

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _650,000 Jews imposed a Jewish state by force of arms on 1.2 million Arabs and others._
> 
> 
> 
> In memorable words of the Peel report "The only solution of tile problem put forward by the Arab Higher Committee was the immediate establishment of all independent Arab Government, which would deal with the 400.000 Jews now in Palestine as it thought fit." Like killing jews and plundering of the jewish infidel property, of course. And then arabs get kicked in the arse, naturally.
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _That crime occurred because western empires, British and US, required a "little loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism."_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did Soros say that?
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The Racist State of Israel is headed for the same fate as South Africa and Selma, Alabama._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And which way is the black racist state of South Africa heading?
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The world is losing its patience with the "Chosen People."_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palistanians?
Click to expand...



Getting back to the core of this thread: Does Israel have a right to exist? Of course it does. And I think most Arabs do too. In 2002 the 29 member Arab League offered Israel, peace, trade and friendship if she would go back to the pre-67 borders.

As we all know, instead of considering peace, Israel did not look at the proposal and replied by building settlements at a rapid pace. She took advantage while America fought wars against Islamic countries connected to this ME conflict which produced 9/11...

I support Israel's existence because it solves two major problems for America and the World.

One, it would end our wars for Israel against Islam. Two, the Jews were kicked out of most Islamic countries, lost possessions. This world-wide holocaust convinced me, that a safe-haven is a no brainer.

I think Islam will accept a just peace for the sons of Abraham. I really don't believe Islam and Judaism are incompatible with each other. Some of the greatest Talmudic Scholars flourished in past partnerships with Islam.


----------



## docmauser1

pbel said:


> _In 2002 the 29 member Arab League offered Israel, peace, trade and friendship if she would go back to the pre-67 borders._


We've dissed the bullshit contention elsewhere before, of course. But it's worth a repeat. Since arab silence in the field of peace® initiatives was becoming too conspicuous, arabs came up with an unworkable bastardized resolution 242 scam. Besides, "pre-67 borders" never existed. Dooh.


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> _In 2002 the 29 member Arab League offered Israel, peace, trade and friendship if she would go back to the pre-67 borders._
> 
> 
> 
> We've dissed the bullshit contention elsewhere before, of course. But it's worth a repeat. Since arab silence in the field of peace® initiatives was becoming too conspicuous, arabs came up with an unworkable bastardized resolution 242 scam. Besides, "pre-67 borders" never existed. Dooh.
Click to expand...

Arabs broke their "silence in the field of peace initiatives" in 1976 at the UNSC.
Conspicuous war profits prevented the US and Israeli bastards from participating.
For "pre-67" borders, think Green Line.

*"The fact that the Israel-Palestine conflict grinds* on without resolution might appear to be rather strange. For many of the world's conflicts, it is difficult even to conjure up a feasible settlement. 

"In this case, it is not only possible, but there is near universal agreement on its basic contours: *a two-state settlement along the internationally recognized (pre-June 1967) borders* -- with 'minor and mutual modifications,' to adopt official U.S. terminology *before Washington departed from the international community in the mid-1970s*.

"The basic principles have been accepted by virtually the entire world, including the Arab states (who go on to call for full normalization of relations), the Organization of Islamic States (including Iran), and relevant non-state actors (including Hamas). 

"A settlement along these lines was *first proposed at the U.N. Security Council in January 1976* by the major Arab states. 

"*Israel refused to attend the session.* 

"*The U.S. vetoed the resolution, and did so again in 1980*..."

A Middle East Peace That Could Happen (But Won't): In Washington-Speak, "Palestinian State" Means "Fried Chicken"

Peddle your racist bullshit in Safed


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> _In 2002 the 29 member Arab League offered Israel, peace, trade and friendship if she would go back to the pre-67 borders._
> 
> 
> 
> We've dissed the bullshit contention elsewhere before, of course. But it's worth a repeat. Since arab silence in the field of peace® initiatives was becoming too conspicuous, arabs came up with an unworkable bastardized resolution 242 scam. Besides, "pre-67 borders" never existed. Dooh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Arabs broke their "silence in the field of peace initiatives" in 1976 at the UNSC. Conspicuous war profits prevented the US and Israeli bastards from participating._
Click to expand...

We aren't discussing Chomsky's fringe babblography here.


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We've dissed the bullshit contention elsewhere before, of course. But it's worth a repeat. Since arab silence in the field of peace® initiatives was becoming too conspicuous, arabs came up with an unworkable bastardized resolution 242 scam. Besides, "pre-67 borders" never existed. Dooh.
> 
> 
> 
> _Arabs broke their "silence in the field of peace initiatives" in 1976 at the UNSC. Conspicuous war profits prevented the US and Israeli bastards from participating._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We aren't discussing Chomsky's fringe babblography here.
Click to expand...

We're discussing those who never miss a chance for peace.
That would be Washington and Israel.
Feel free to refute any of Chomsky's content:

"There was one important and revealing break in U.S.-Israeli rejectionism. After the failed Camp David agreements in 2000, President Clinton recognized that the terms he and Israel had proposed were unacceptable to any Palestinians. 

"That December, he proposed his 'parameters': imprecise, but more forthcoming. He then stated that both sides had accepted the parameters, while expressing reservations.

"Israeli and Palestinian negotiators met in Taba, Egypt, in January 2001 to resolve the differences and were making considerable progress. In their final press conference, they reported that, with a little more time, they could probably have reached full agreement. 

"*Israel called off the negotiations prematurely*, however, and official progress then terminated, though informal discussions at a high level continued leading to the Geneva Accord, *rejected by Israel and ignored by the U.S*.

A Middle East Peace That Could Happen (But Won't): In Washington-Speak, "Palestinian State" Means "Fried Chicken"


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Arabs broke their "silence in the field of peace initiatives" in 1976 at the UNSC. Conspicuous war profits prevented the US and Israeli bastards from participating._
> 
> 
> 
> We aren't discussing Chomsky's fringe babblography here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We're discussing those who never miss a chance for peace.
> That would be Washington and Israel.
> Feel free to refute any of Chomsky's content:
> 
> "There was one important and revealing break in U.S.-Israeli rejectionism. After the failed Camp David agreements in 2000, President Clinton recognized that the terms he and Israel had proposed were unacceptable to any Palestinians.
> 
> "That December, he proposed his 'parameters': imprecise, but more forthcoming. He then stated that both sides had accepted the parameters, while expressing reservations.
> 
> "Israeli and Palestinian negotiators met in Taba, Egypt, in January 2001 to resolve the differences and were making considerable progress. In their final press conference, they reported that, with a little more time, they could probably have reached full agreement.
> 
> "*Israel called off the negotiations prematurely*, however, and official progress then terminated, though informal discussions at a high level continued leading to the Geneva Accord, *rejected by Israel and ignored by the U.S*.
> 
> A Middle East Peace That Could Happen (But Won't): In Washington-Speak, "Palestinian State" Means "Fried Chicken"
Click to expand...


Sure. 
You'll note that Chumpsky excoriates Israel and the US for leaving Taba (Clinton was out and Barak was on his way out) yet cruises by the fact that Arafat had not only slithered away from Camp David a few months earlier but instituted his second intifada which pushed the two sides as far apart as they had ever been and left them with too little time to regroup. Chumpsky is just an anarchist and anti-Israel/anti-American hack. 
No wonder people like you dig him.


----------



## pbel

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We aren't discussing Chomsky's fringe babblography here.
> 
> 
> 
> We're discussing those who never miss a chance for peace.
> That would be Washington and Israel.
> Feel free to refute any of Chomsky's content:
> 
> "There was one important and revealing break in U.S.-Israeli rejectionism. After the failed Camp David agreements in 2000, President Clinton recognized that the terms he and Israel had proposed were unacceptable to any Palestinians.
> 
> "That December, he proposed his 'parameters': imprecise, but more forthcoming. He then stated that both sides had accepted the parameters, while expressing reservations.
> 
> "Israeli and Palestinian negotiators met in Taba, Egypt, in January 2001 to resolve the differences and were making considerable progress. In their final press conference, they reported that, with a little more time, they could probably have reached full agreement.
> 
> "*Israel called off the negotiations prematurely*, however, and official progress then terminated, though informal discussions at a high level continued leading to the Geneva Accord, *rejected by Israel and ignored by the U.S*.
> 
> A Middle East Peace That Could Happen (But Won't): In Washington-Speak, "Palestinian State" Means "Fried Chicken"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure.
> You'll note that Chumpsky excoriates Israel and the US for leaving Taba (Clinton was out and Barak was on his way out) yet cruises by the fact that Arafat had not only slithered away from Camp David a few months earlier but instituted his second intifada which pushed the two sides as far apart as they had ever been and left them with too little time to regroup. Chumpsky is just an anarchist and anti-Israel/anti-American hack.
> No wonder people like you dig him.
Click to expand...


Chomsky is one of the great Polymaths of our time,,,you Sniffer are but a pimple on his ass!


----------



## Sundowner47

SAYIT said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> just what exactly is it?
> 
> i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of israel and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.
> 
> i mean, who or what gives israel this right to exist? who conferred it upon israel or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? did israel have a right to exist before it became a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?
> 
> does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?
> 
> personally. i have no idea whether israel, or any state, has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A state's right to exist seems to come from the fact that it exists. For instance, while the state of Israel has existed for over 64 years, the state of "Palestine" has never existed. The reason it is such an issue with Israel is that some mindless twits amuse themselves and each other by claiming Israel (and only Israel) has no right to exist. Since Israel is the world's only predominately Jewish state, guess what kind of people do the challenging.
> Anyway, I hope that answers your questions.
Click to expand...


Either you are historically retarded, or you have been brainwashed by Jewish/Zionist propaganda...I'm guessing an equal measure of both. Palestine has an easily detailed history that is impossible to distort or dismiss, but this reality hardly discourages the vile Jewish revisionists from their crude attempts to occupy living history...as for Israel's "right to exist" please post a reference to this often invoked---yet mysteriously undocumented right...certainly your smug dismissal of any challenge to this fictive right suggests an easy answer...


----------



## Hossfly

Sundowner47 said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> just what exactly is it?
> 
> i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of israel and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.
> 
> i mean, who or what gives israel this right to exist? who conferred it upon israel or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? did israel have a right to exist before it became a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?
> 
> does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?
> 
> personally. i have no idea whether israel, or any state, has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A state's right to exist seems to come from the fact that it exists. For instance, while the state of Israel has existed for over 64 years, the state of "Palestine" has never existed. The reason it is such an issue with Israel is that some mindless twits amuse themselves and each other by claiming Israel (and only Israel) has no right to exist. Since Israel is the world's only predominately Jewish state, guess what kind of people do the challenging.
> Anyway, I hope that answers your questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Either you are historically retarded, or you have been brainwashed by Jewish/Zionist propaganda...I'm guessing an equal measure of both. Palestine has an easily detailed history that is impossible to distort or dismiss, but this reality hardly discourages the vile Jewish revisionists from their crude attempts to occupy living history...as for Israel's "right to exist" please post a reference to this often invoked---yet mysteriously undocumented right...certainly your smug dismissal of any challenge to this fictive right suggests an easy answer...
Click to expand...

Poppycock, twaddle and bloviating without a license.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sundowner47 said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> just what exactly is it?
> 
> i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of israel and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.
> 
> i mean, who or what gives israel this right to exist? who conferred it upon israel or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? did israel have a right to exist before it became a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?
> 
> does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?
> 
> personally. i have no idea whether israel, or any state, has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A state's right to exist seems to come from the fact that it exists. For instance, while the state of Israel has existed for over 64 years, the state of "Palestine" has never existed. The reason it is such an issue with Israel is that some mindless twits amuse themselves and each other by claiming Israel (and only Israel) has no right to exist. Since Israel is the world's only predominately Jewish state, guess what kind of people do the challenging.
> Anyway, I hope that answers your questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Either you are historically retarded, or you have been brainwashed by Jewish/Zionist propaganda...I'm guessing an equal measure of both. Palestine has an easily detailed history that is impossible to distort or dismiss, but this reality hardly discourages the vile Jewish revisionists from their crude attempts to occupy living history...as for Israel's "right to exist" please post a reference to this often invoked---yet mysteriously undocumented right...certainly your smug dismissal of any challenge to this fictive right suggests an easy answer...
Click to expand...




> ...as for Israel's "right to exist" please post a reference to this often invoked---yet mysteriously undocumented right...



Cue song and dance
3
2
1


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We aren't discussing Chomsky's fringe babblography here.
> 
> 
> 
> We're discussing those who never miss a chance for peace.
> That would be Washington and Israel.
> Feel free to refute any of Chomsky's content:
> 
> "There was one important and revealing break in U.S.-Israeli rejectionism. After the failed Camp David agreements in 2000, President Clinton recognized that the terms he and Israel had proposed were unacceptable to any Palestinians.
> 
> "That December, he proposed his 'parameters': imprecise, but more forthcoming. He then stated that both sides had accepted the parameters, while expressing reservations.
> 
> "Israeli and Palestinian negotiators met in Taba, Egypt, in January 2001 to resolve the differences and were making considerable progress. In their final press conference, they reported that, with a little more time, they could probably have reached full agreement.
> 
> "*Israel called off the negotiations prematurely*, however, and official progress then terminated, though informal discussions at a high level continued leading to the Geneva Accord, *rejected by Israel and ignored by the U.S*.
> 
> A Middle East Peace That Could Happen (But Won't): In Washington-Speak, "Palestinian State" Means "Fried Chicken"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure.
> You'll note that Chumpsky excoriates Israel and the US for leaving Taba (Clinton was out and Barak was on his way out) yet cruises by the fact that Arafat had not only slithered away from Camp David a few months earlier but instituted his second intifada which pushed the two sides as far apart as they had ever been and left them with too little time to regroup. Chumpsky is just an anarchist and anti-Israel/anti-American hack.
> No wonder people like you dig him.
Click to expand...

The Al-Aqsa Intifada began in September 2000 when your pathic soul mate, Sharon, desecrated the third-holiest site of Islam, probably by design since brain-dead shit like you two always prefer war to peace. The Taba Summit took place the following January, and at its conclusion both sides agreed they had never been closer to reaching a final settlement and their shared declaration stated the remaining gaps could be bridged within six weeks after the upcoming Israeli election.

It was the Jews, once again, who never missed the chance to miss a chance at peace.
Maybe their illegal occupation is just too profitable?


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> just what exactly is it?
> 
> i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of israel and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.
> 
> i mean, who or what gives israel this right to exist? who conferred it upon israel or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? did israel have a right to exist before it became a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?
> 
> does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?
> 
> personally. i have no idea whether israel, or any state, has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A state's right to exist seems to come from the fact that it exists. For instance, while the state of Israel has existed for over 64 years, the state of "Palestine" has never existed. The reason it is such an issue with Israel is that some mindless twits amuse themselves and each other by claiming Israel (and only Israel) has no right to exist. Since Israel is the world's only predominately Jewish state, guess what kind of people do the challenging.
> Anyway, I hope that answers your questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Either you are historically retarded, or you have been brainwashed by Jewish/Zionist propaganda...I'm guessing an equal measure of both. Palestine has an easily detailed history that is impossible to distort or dismiss, but this reality hardly discourages the vile Jewish revisionists from their crude attempts to occupy living history...as for Israel's "right to exist" please post a reference to this often invoked---yet mysteriously undocumented right...certainly your smug dismissal of any challenge to this fictive right suggests an easy answer...
Click to expand...


Evidently you believe your smarmy attitude is a viable cover for your inability to read. I stated clearly that "a state's right to exist seems to come from the fact that it exists" and that this is only an issue because some petty people spend way too much time insisting that Israel (and only Israel) has no right to exist.
Nothing terribly tricky about that. The fact that Israel said "yes" in 1948 and the Arabs said "no" is also part of the history to which you refer, as is this:
Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
"Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!


----------



## Sundowner47

Hossfly said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> A state's right to exist seems to come from the fact that it exists. For instance, while the state of Israel has existed for over 64 years, the state of "Palestine" has never existed. The reason it is such an issue with Israel is that some mindless twits amuse themselves and each other by claiming Israel (and only Israel) has no right to exist. Since Israel is the world's only predominately Jewish state, guess what kind of people do the challenging.
> Anyway, I hope that answers your questions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Either you are historically retarded, or you have been brainwashed by Jewish/Zionist propaganda...I'm guessing an equal measure of both. Palestine has an easily detailed history that is impossible to distort or dismiss, but this reality hardly discourages the vile Jewish revisionists from their crude attempts to occupy living history...as for Israel's "right to exist" please post a reference to this often invoked---yet mysteriously undocumented right...certainly your smug dismissal of any challenge to this fictive right suggests an easy answer...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Poppycock, twaddle and bloviating without a license.
Click to expand...



LOL....may I take the liberty of translating?  You have nothing with which to refute my comments, failing a refutation you merely spout idiocy...possibly with training and the right kind of encouragement you can offer some form of refutation...LOL


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're discussing those who never miss a chance for peace.
> That would be Washington and Israel.
> Feel free to refute any of Chomsky's content:
> 
> "There was one important and revealing break in U.S.-Israeli rejectionism. After the failed Camp David agreements in 2000, President Clinton recognized that the terms he and Israel had proposed were unacceptable to any Palestinians.
> 
> "That December, he proposed his 'parameters': imprecise, but more forthcoming. He then stated that both sides had accepted the parameters, while expressing reservations.
> 
> "Israeli and Palestinian negotiators met in Taba, Egypt, in January 2001 to resolve the differences and were making considerable progress. In their final press conference, they reported that, with a little more time, they could probably have reached full agreement.
> 
> "*Israel called off the negotiations prematurely*, however, and official progress then terminated, though informal discussions at a high level continued leading to the Geneva Accord, *rejected by Israel and ignored by the U.S*.
> 
> A Middle East Peace That Could Happen (But Won't): In Washington-Speak, "Palestinian State" Means "Fried Chicken"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure.
> You'll note that Chumpsky excoriates Israel and the US for leaving Taba (Clinton was out and Barak was on his way out) yet cruises by the fact that Arafat had not only slithered away from Camp David a few months earlier but instituted his second intifada which pushed the two sides as far apart as they had ever been and left them with too little time to regroup. Chumpsky is just an anarchist and anti-Israel/anti-American hack.
> No wonder people like you dig him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Al-Aqsa Intifada began in September 2000 when your pathic soul mate, Sharon, desecrated the third-holiest site of Islam, probably by design since brain-dead shit like you two always prefer war to peace. The Taba Summit took place the following January, and at its conclusion both sides agreed they had never been closer to reaching a final settlement and their shared declaration stated the remaining gaps could be bridged within six weeks after the upcoming Israeli election.
> 
> It was the Jews, once again, who never missed the chance to miss a chance at peace.
> Maybe their illegal occupation is just too profitable?
Click to expand...


Of course, it was former Pres Clinton and Saudi Prince Bandar who said that it was Arafat who "blew up" Taba and that the ensuing intifada had been planned months in advance. 
So tell this board how Sharon "desecrated the third-holiest site of Islam."


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Either you are historically retarded, or you have been brainwashed by Jewish/Zionist propaganda...I'm guessing an equal measure of both. Palestine has an easily detailed history that is impossible to distort or dismiss, but this reality hardly discourages the vile Jewish revisionists from their crude attempts to occupy living history...as for Israel's "right to exist" please post a reference to this often invoked---yet mysteriously undocumented right...certainly your smug dismissal of any challenge to this fictive right suggests an easy answer...
> 
> 
> 
> Poppycock, twaddle and bloviating without a license.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LOL....may I take the liberty of translating?  You have nothing with which to refute my comments, failing a refutation you merely spout idiocy...possibly with training and the right kind of encouragement you can offer some form of refutation...LOL
Click to expand...


Just what the world needs ... another pompous jackazz.


----------



## Sundowner47

SAYIT said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> A state's right to exist seems to come from the fact that it exists. For instance, while the state of Israel has existed for over 64 years, the state of "Palestine" has never existed. The reason it is such an issue with Israel is that some mindless twits amuse themselves and each other by claiming Israel (and only Israel) has no right to exist. Since Israel is the world's only predominately Jewish state, guess what kind of people do the challenging.
> Anyway, I hope that answers your questions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Either you are historically retarded, or you have been brainwashed by Jewish/Zionist propaganda...I'm guessing an equal measure of both. Palestine has an easily detailed history that is impossible to distort or dismiss, but this reality hardly discourages the vile Jewish revisionists from their crude attempts to occupy living history...as for Israel's "right to exist" please post a reference to this often invoked---yet mysteriously undocumented right...certainly your smug dismissal of any challenge to this fictive right suggests an easy answer...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Evidently you believe your smarmy attitude is a viable cover for your inability to read. I stated clearly that "a state's right to exist seems to come from the fact that it exists" and that this is only an issue because some petty people spend way too much time insisting that Israel (and only Israel) has no right to exist.
> Nothing terribly tricky about that. The fact that Israel said "yes" in 1948 and the Arabs said "no" is also part of the history to which you refer, as is this:
> Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
> "Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!
Click to expand...



Okay I'm guessing that you are on the slow, learning-challenged side of the coin, so I'll proceed in mono-syllables, and simplistic sentences so as to avoid any minor confusion: No state, nation, country has a "right to exist"...we acknowledge that they exist, but they don't inhere any objective, universal "right to exist" you fertile idiot. In the case of Israel this slogan was unknown until the notorious 67 land grab that typically duplicitous Jews have turned into a defensive action instead of what it was--outright aggression with the goal of stealing more land.  Given the disgusting levels of moral depravity, and shameless prevarications common to the Israeli narrative, the thieves compensated for their theft by invoking the "right to exist"---no less.


----------



## Hossfly

Sundowner47 said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> just what exactly is it?
> 
> i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of israel and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.
> 
> i mean, who or what gives israel this right to exist? who conferred it upon israel or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? did israel have a right to exist before it became a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?
> 
> does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?
> 
> personally. i have no idea whether israel, or any state, has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A state's right to exist seems to come from the fact that it exists. For instance, while the state of Israel has existed for over 64 years, the state of "Palestine" has never existed. The reason it is such an issue with Israel is that some mindless twits amuse themselves and each other by claiming Israel (and only Israel) has no right to exist. Since Israel is the world's only predominately Jewish state, guess what kind of people do the challenging.
> Anyway, I hope that answers your questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Either you are historically retarded, or you have been brainwashed by Jewish/Zionist propaganda...I'm guessing an equal measure of both. Palestine has an easily detailed history that is impossible to distort or dismiss, but this reality hardly discourages the vile Jewish revisionists from their crude attempts to occupy living history...as for Israel's "right to exist" please post a reference to this often invoked---yet mysteriously undocumented right...certainly your smug dismissal of any challenge to this fictive right suggests an easy answer...
Click to expand...

How about you giving us some of this detailed history of the Palestinian people?.  Have their been any archeological finds which can prove that these people have been there for ages and ages?  There are finds all the times which show the Jews have been there for a very long time, but I am wondering if you can educate us as to what has been found with regard to the Palestinian  Arabs.  Anything you can supply us with will be deeply appreciated.



jt2


----------



## Hossfly

Sundowner47 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Either you are historically retarded, or you have been brainwashed by Jewish/Zionist propaganda...I'm guessing an equal measure of both. Palestine has an easily detailed history that is impossible to distort or dismiss, but this reality hardly discourages the vile Jewish revisionists from their crude attempts to occupy living history...as for Israel's "right to exist" please post a reference to this often invoked---yet mysteriously undocumented right...certainly your smug dismissal of any challenge to this fictive right suggests an easy answer...
> 
> 
> 
> Poppycock, twaddle and bloviating without a license.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LOL....may I take the liberty of translating?  You have nothing with which to refute my comments, failing a refutation you merely spout idiocy...possibly with training and the right kind of encouragement you can offer some form of refutation...LOL
Click to expand...

The reason people like you get a non-response is because your simple-minded explanations,suppositions and lack of knowledge doesn't deserve an answer. Talking to a jabbering monkey would be more productive.


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure.
> You'll note that Chumpsky excoriates Israel and the US for leaving Taba (Clinton was out and Barak was on his way out) yet cruises by the fact that Arafat had not only slithered away from Camp David a few months earlier but instituted his second intifada which pushed the two sides as far apart as they had ever been and left them with too little time to regroup. Chumpsky is just an anarchist and anti-Israel/anti-American hack.
> No wonder people like you dig him.
> 
> 
> 
> The Al-Aqsa Intifada began in September 2000 when your pathic soul mate, Sharon, desecrated the third-holiest site of Islam, probably by design since brain-dead shit like you two always prefer war to peace. The Taba Summit took place the following January, and at its conclusion both sides agreed they had never been closer to reaching a final settlement and their shared declaration stated the remaining gaps could be bridged within six weeks after the upcoming Israeli election.
> 
> It was the Jews, once again, who never missed the chance to miss a chance at peace.
> Maybe their illegal occupation is just too profitable?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course, it was former Pres Clinton and Saudi Prince Bandar who said that it was Arafat who "blew up" Taba and that the ensuing intifada had been planned months in advance.
> So tell this board how Sharon "desecrated the third-holiest site of Islam."
Click to expand...

Which came first Taba or the Second Intifada?
Bubba and Bandar Bush tell you Arafat did it, and you believe them?

Sharon, the butcher of the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps, and hundreds of Israeli riot police make their appearance at Al-Aqsa ten days after the Palestinians' memorial day service for his war crimes' victims and you find the dots too hard to connect?

Sharon's visit was designed to incite violence and, once again, eliminate any remote possibility for a peaceful Palestine.


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> A state's right to exist seems to come from the fact that it exists. For instance, while the state of Israel has existed for over 64 years, the state of "Palestine" has never existed. The reason it is such an issue with Israel is that some mindless twits amuse themselves and each other by claiming Israel (and only Israel) has no right to exist. Since Israel is the world's only predominately Jewish state, guess what kind of people do the challenging.
> Anyway, I hope that answers your questions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Either you are historically retarded, or you have been brainwashed by Jewish/Zionist propaganda...I'm guessing an equal measure of both. Palestine has an easily detailed history that is impossible to distort or dismiss, but this reality hardly discourages the vile Jewish revisionists from their crude attempts to occupy living history...as for Israel's "right to exist" please post a reference to this often invoked---yet mysteriously undocumented right...certainly your smug dismissal of any challenge to this fictive right suggests an easy answer...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about you giving us some of this detailed history of the Palestinian people?.  Have their been any archeological finds which can prove that these people have been there for ages and ages?  There are finds all the times which show the Jews have been there for a very long time, but I am wondering if you can educate us as to what has been found with regard to the Palestinian  Arabs.  Anything you can supply us with will be deeply appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> jt2
Click to expand...

*Here's one (Saudi) Arabian perspective:*

*"Palestinians have continuously resided in Palestine since four thousand years before Christ*, Abo-Sak pointed out. Their ancestors built the cities of Jerusalem, Nablus, Jericho, Beisan, Acca and Jaffa. 

"*The Hebrews arrived in the land between 1400-1200 B.C*., and only maintained control over it during the lifetimes of King David and his son King Solomon &#8211; *a period of about 80 years*.

"The land then came under Greek and Roman rule, and was then conquered by Islam in the year 637 A.D. under the second Caliph, Omar. 

"By that time, the Jews had already left Jerusalem, and Christianity was the dominant religion. The Caliph granted full security to all Christians, including personal safety, and protection of property, religion and churches. 

"The Muslims declared Jerusalem the capital of Palestine, and the city remained under Islamic rule until the end of the Ottoman Empire in 1918, except for a brief time of Christian rule under the Crusaders.

"In this century, the eastern Mediterranean became subject to British and French occupation as a result of the First World War, and Palestine came under British military occupation. The British encouraged the Arabs to gain their independence from the Ottoman Empire and promised them support if they stood on the side of the allies during the First World War. 

"However the British reneged on the promise, and British Foreign Minister Arthur James Balfour promised the International Zionists a homeland for the Jews in Palestine. 

"At the time, the population of Palestine was comprised of *95% Arabs (both Christians and Muslims), 4% Palestinian Jews, and 1% expatriates. The Jews owned only 2% of the land."*

US Involvement in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Solution or Complication? by Lt. Col. Mohammed F. Abo-Sak


----------



## Sundowner47

SAYIT posts: "The fact that Israel said "yes" in 1948 and the Arabs said "no" is also part of the history to which you refer"

I can only marvel at the childlike, ahistorical revisionist liberties so casually referenced by brain-dead Zionists.  

#1  There was no Israel in 48 until the Zionist pirates brazenly seized historic PALESTINE in a well-planned terrorist campaign...so when you state that an Israel that did not exist said "yes" you clearly mark the boundaries of your fraud

#2  The Arab "no" that you refer to was actually called a vote against a partition recommendation offered by the UN that was extremely unfair to the majority population--Arab/Palestinians

What fascinates me is that Jews seem to feel that they can bully historical facts until they begin to resemble the lies that they have concocted to hide their crimes...gosh I can't imagine why Jews have been historically expelled from every host culture they've entered


----------



## Sundowner47

Hossfly said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Poppycock, twaddle and bloviating without a license.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL....may I take the liberty of translating?  You have nothing with which to refute my comments, failing a refutation you merely spout idiocy...possibly with training and the right kind of encouragement you can offer some form of refutation...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The reason people like you get a non-response is because your simple-minded explanations,suppositions and lack of knowledge doesn't deserve an answer. Talking to a jabbering monkey would be more productive.
Click to expand...


What you fail to note is that not only do you post a response---but a typically juvenile one...failing any academic or rational comeback, you simply stick with what you know: sub-juvenile ad-hominem replies that a 3rd grader would laugh at...


----------



## Sundowner47

It appears that such otherwise reasonable considerations as history...documentation...broadly acknowledged cultural narrative...census data...taxation records--the entire mass of collective information pertaining to the social, political and cultural realities of the Fertile Crescent are reduced to irrelevancy in the face of militant-polemical Zionism. Given the irreducible historical locus of Palestine in world history---as well as the religious significance attached to the region, it is mind-boggling that any emerging 20th century political movement would dare presume to revise this critical history to reflect the designs of their political and military treachery, but that is the core of Zionism, and should there be any lingering doubts I would invite any doubter to sample some of the mindless commentary offered here by Jews...


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> It appears that such otherwise reasonable considerations as history...documentation...broadly acknowledged cultural narrative...census data...taxation records--the entire mass of collective information pertaining to the social, political and cultural realities of the Fertile Crescent are reduced to irrelevancy in the face of militant-polemical Zionism. Given the irreducible historical locus of Palestine in world history---as well as the religious significance attached to the region, it is mind-boggling that any emerging 20th century political movement would dare presume to revise this critical history to reflect the designs of their political and military treachery, but that is the core of Zionism, and should there be any lingering doubts I would invite any doubter to sample some of the mindless commentary offered here by Jews...



Heh, heh, heh:
Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
"Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!
Thanks for playing. Y'all come back now.


----------



## irosie91

the  "FERTILE CRESCENT"????    is he into  GILGAMESH or  NIMROD?     He is certainly not into the  Talmud  

one of the most interesting issues relating to the first book of the bible   called in english  "genesis" -----is the clear rejection of the Hummarabi code -----another fascinating issue is the retention of basic aspects of the hummarabi code in shariah law------which suggests to me that the legal code of pre islamic arabia was highly influenced by  Hummarabi and nimrod

I had no idea that there were extant tax records   from SUMERIA        how fascinating.     I wonder how the tax structure worked.     The society was very very stratified-----taxes were probably broadbased with the upper classes being exempted altogether


----------



## Sundowner47

irosie91 said:


> the  "FERTILE CRESCENT"????    is he into  GILGAMESH or  NIMROD?     He is certainly not into the  Talmud
> 
> one of the most interesting issues relating to the first book of the bible   called in english  "genesis" -----is the clear rejection of the Hummarabi code -----another fascinating issue is the retention of basic aspects of the hummarabi code in shariah law------which suggests to me that the legal code of pre islamic arabia was highly influenced by  Hummarabi and nimrod
> 
> I had no idea that there were extant tax records   from SUMERIA        how fascinating.     I wonder how the tax structure worked.     The society was very very stratified-----taxes were probably broadbased with the upper classes being exempted altogether



I submit that you should lead all your posts with the qualifier: "I had no idea"...in fact I dare say all the board Zionists might take a lesson from you...LOL


----------



## Sundowner47

SAYIT said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It appears that such otherwise reasonable considerations as history...documentation...broadly acknowledged cultural narrative...census data...taxation records--the entire mass of collective information pertaining to the social, political and cultural realities of the Fertile Crescent are reduced to irrelevancy in the face of militant-polemical Zionism. Given the irreducible historical locus of Palestine in world history---as well as the religious significance attached to the region, it is mind-boggling that any emerging 20th century political movement would dare presume to revise this critical history to reflect the designs of their political and military treachery, but that is the core of Zionism, and should there be any lingering doubts I would invite any doubter to sample some of the mindless commentary offered here by Jews...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heh, heh, heh:
> Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
> "Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!
> Thanks for playing. Y'all come back now.
Click to expand...


Shouldn't that line correctly read:  "23,000 days of illegal occupation---and still whining"??


----------



## irosie91

no    there is nothing illegal about occupation      Once a war is won----the defeated remain occupied until they surrender and accept terms    ----remember germany?     remember Japan?


----------



## MJB12741

LMAO!  Loving it!




SAYIT said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It appears that such otherwise reasonable considerations as history...documentation...broadly acknowledged cultural narrative...census data...taxation records--the entire mass of collective information pertaining to the social, political and cultural realities of the Fertile Crescent are reduced to irrelevancy in the face of militant-polemical Zionism. Given the irreducible historical locus of Palestine in world history---as well as the religious significance attached to the region, it is mind-boggling that any emerging 20th century political movement would dare presume to revise this critical history to reflect the designs of their political and military treachery, but that is the core of Zionism, and should there be any lingering doubts I would invite any doubter to sample some of the mindless commentary offered here by Jews...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heh, heh, heh:
> Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
> "Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!
> Thanks for playing. Y'all come back now.
Click to expand...


----------



## Sundowner47

irosie91 said:


> no    there is nothing illegal about occupation      Once a war is won----the defeated remain occupied until they surrender and accept terms    ----remember germany?     remember Japan?



The problem remains that there was no war---merely a well-organized terrorist campaign to drive out the indigenous people and steal their land...calling this war is an attempt to justify piracy, and a set of lies that would make Goebbells wince in embarrassment


----------



## MJB12741

Will you help eduate me?  You see, I am still waiting to learn, when did Isrel's ancient land become this "Palestinian" land that Israel is stealing or occupying?





Sundowner47 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no    there is nothing illegal about occupation      Once a war is won----the defeated remain occupied until they surrender and accept terms    ----remember germany?     remember Japan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem remains that there was no war---merely a well-organized terrorist campaign to drive out the indigenous people and steal their land...calling this war is an attempt to justify piracy, and a set of lies that would make Goebbells wince in embarrassment
Click to expand...


----------



## toastman

Sundowner47 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no    there is nothing illegal about occupation      Once a war is won----the defeated remain occupied until they surrender and accept terms    ----remember germany?     remember Japan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem remains that there was no war---merely a well-organized terrorist campaign to drive out the indigenous people and steal their land...calling this war is an attempt to justify piracy, and a set of lies that would make Goebbells wince in embarrassment
Click to expand...


Are you referring to the Land that was taken by Israel after the end of the 1967 war?


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It appears that such otherwise reasonable considerations as history...documentation...broadly acknowledged cultural narrative...census data...taxation records--the entire mass of collective information pertaining to the social, political and cultural realities of the Fertile Crescent are reduced to irrelevancy in the face of militant-polemical Zionism. Given the irreducible historical locus of Palestine in world history---as well as the religious significance attached to the region, it is mind-boggling that any emerging 20th century political movement would dare presume to revise this critical history to reflect the designs of their political and military treachery, but that is the core of Zionism, and should there be any lingering doubts I would invite any doubter to sample some of the mindless commentary offered here by Jews...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heh, heh, heh:
> Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
> "Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!
> Thanks for playing. Y'all come back now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shouldn't that line correctly read:  "23,000 days of illegal occupation---and still whining"??
Click to expand...


That would only apply in your ElectronicIntifada fantasy world, Princess.


----------



## Sundowner47

toastman said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no    there is nothing illegal about occupation      Once a war is won----the defeated remain occupied until they surrender and accept terms    ----remember germany?     remember Japan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem remains that there was no war---merely a well-organized terrorist campaign to drive out the indigenous people and steal their land...calling this war is an attempt to justify piracy, and a set of lies that would make Goebbells wince in embarrassment
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you referring to the Land that was taken by Israel after the end of the 1967 war?
Click to expand...



I am referring to all the land that now comprises the state of Israel...and to all of the false pageantry, and febrile histrionics that are fed into the weak propaganda that is routinely circulated


----------



## irosie91

Sundowner47 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem remains that there was no war---merely a well-organized terrorist campaign to drive out the indigenous people and steal their land...calling this war is an attempt to justify piracy, and a set of lies that would make Goebbells wince in embarrassment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you referring to the Land that was taken by Israel after the end of the 1967 war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I am referring to all the land that now comprises the state of Israel...and to all of the false pageantry, and febrile histrionics that are fed into the weak propaganda that is routinely circulated
Click to expand...


of course you are-----just as SPAIN was stolen from the righteous by the evil pope      you 
are a very good HAFIZ     you vomit forth the filth and excrement  with great facility.   The rapist pig would be PROUD OF YOU  as would adolf


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem remains that there was no war---merely a well-organized terrorist campaign to drive out the indigenous people and steal their land...calling this war is an attempt to justify piracy, and a set of lies that would make Goebbells wince in embarrassment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you referring to the Land that was taken by Israel after the end of the 1967 war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I am referring to all the land that now comprises the state of Israel...and to all of the false pageantry, and febrile histrionics that are fed into the weak propaganda that is routinely circulated
Click to expand...


Nobody here - and I mean NOBODY - circulates weak propaganda like you do, Princess. You're in a league of your own.


----------



## toastman

Sundowner47 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem remains that there was no war---merely a well-organized terrorist campaign to drive out the indigenous people and steal their land...calling this war is an attempt to justify piracy, and a set of lies that would make Goebbells wince in embarrassment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you referring to the Land that was taken by Israel after the end of the 1967 war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I am referring to all the land that now comprises the state of Israel...and to all of the false pageantry, and febrile histrionics that are fed into the weak propaganda that is routinely circulated
Click to expand...


Ummm... Do you have any proof of this ?? Or are you just in the mood to re-write history?

Nothing was taken. That is a ridiculous thing to say. 

YOU are the one who has fallen for the propaganda


----------



## Sundowner47

SAYIT said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heh, heh, heh:
> Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
> "Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!
> Thanks for playing. Y'all come back now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shouldn't that line correctly read:  "23,000 days of illegal occupation---and still whining"??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That would only apply in your ElectronicIntifada fantasy world, Princess.
Click to expand...


Skip on down a few pages to the part where your stink-manual offers clever evasions to those pesky facts that continue to keep dutiful Zionist mummies like yourself tossing and turning all night...who excels at peddling fantasies more than Zionist mummies?


----------



## toastman

Jews have been kicked out of everywhere that they have lived throughout history. They FINALLY have their own land, and people STILL want to kick them out. It's ridiculous.

AM ISRAEL CHAI


----------



## Sundowner47

toastman said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you referring to the Land that was taken by Israel after the end of the 1967 war?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am referring to all the land that now comprises the state of Israel...and to all of the false pageantry, and febrile histrionics that are fed into the weak propaganda that is routinely circulated
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ummm... Do you have any proof of this ?? Or are you just in the mood to re-write history?
> 
> Nothing was taken. That is a ridiculous thing to say.
> 
> YOU are the one who has fallen for the propaganda
Click to expand...


Unfortunately the "proof" comes by way of Zionist actions, demographic maps, and the generous public statements Zionist leaders have  made over the years...nothing really controversial about this assessment---unless you are a dutifully trained Zionist who cannot process facts...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sundowner47 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no    there is nothing illegal about occupation      Once a war is won----the defeated remain occupied until they surrender and accept terms    ----remember germany?     remember Japan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem remains that there was no war---merely a well-organized terrorist campaign to drive out the indigenous people and steal their land...calling this war is an attempt to justify piracy, and a set of lies that would make Goebbells wince in embarrassment
Click to expand...


Interesting observation. A war is between two armies. It is a stretch to call Israel's military attacks on Palestinian civilians a war.


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> no    there is nothing illegal about occupation      Once a war is won----the defeated remain occupied until they surrender and accept terms    ----remember germany?     remember Japan?



Israel claims victory before the Palestinians surrender.

That is an interesting concept.


----------



## jillian

irosie91 said:


> the  "FERTILE CRESCENT"????    is he into  GILGAMESH or  NIMROD?     He is certainly not into the  Talmud
> 
> one of the most interesting issues relating to the first book of the bible   called in english  "genesis" -----is the clear rejection of the Hummarabi code -----another fascinating issue is the retention of basic aspects of the hummarabi code in shariah law------which suggests to me that the legal code of pre islamic arabia was highly influenced by  Hummarabi and nimrod
> 
> I had no idea that there were extant tax records   from SUMERIA        how fascinating.     I wonder how the tax structure worked.     The society was very very stratified-----taxes were probably broadbased with the upper classes being exempted altogether



actually, some of the earliest known writing is from sumeria... but it's mostly wage and accounting statements that shows beer was used as currency.


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shouldn't that line correctly read:  "23,000 days of illegal occupation---and still whining"??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would only apply in your ElectronicIntifada fantasy world, Princess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Skip on down a few pages to the part where your stink-manual offers clever evasions to those pesky facts that continue to keep dutiful Zionist mummies like yourself tossing and turning all night...who excels at peddling fantasies more than Zionist mummies?
Click to expand...

are just more camel crap from the

That would be you, Princess, and what you consider to be "pesky facts" are just more camel crap from your hate mill.


----------



## MJB12741

Hmmm, still no answer to my question.  Is it actually possible it is the Palestinians who are stealing or occupying Israel's land?




MJB12741 said:


> Will you help eduate me?  You see, I am still waiting to learn, when did Isrel's ancient land become this "Palestinian" land that Israel is stealing or occupying?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no    there is nothing illegal about occupation      Once a war is won----the defeated remain occupied until they surrender and accept terms    ----remember germany?     remember Japan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem remains that there was no war---merely a well-organized terrorist campaign to drive out the indigenous people and steal their land...calling this war is an attempt to justify piracy, and a set of lies that would make Goebbells wince in embarrassment
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am referring to all the land that now comprises the state of Israel...and to all of the false pageantry, and febrile histrionics that are fed into the weak propaganda that is routinely circulated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ummm... Do you have any proof of this ?? Or are you just in the mood to re-write history?
> 
> Nothing was taken. That is a ridiculous thing to say.
> 
> YOU are the one who has fallen for the propaganda
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unfortunately the "proof" comes by way of Zionist actions, demographic maps, and the generous public statements Zionist leaders have  made over the years...nothing really controversial about this assessment---unless you are a dutifully trained Zionist who cannot process facts...
Click to expand...


And for every credible quote you produce I'll post one from the Arabs which make those pesky Israelis look like choir boys. Nothing really controversial about that statement ... unless you're an ElectronicIntifada trained monkey who cannot handle the truth.


----------



## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no    there is nothing illegal about occupation      Once a war is won----the defeated remain occupied until they surrender and accept terms    ----remember germany?     remember Japan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims victory before the Palestinians surrender.
> 
> That is an interesting concept.
Click to expand...


So from one side of your mouth you claim the "Palestinians" have yet to surrender and from the other side you claim there was no war.


----------



## irosie91

loinboy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews can have a Democratic State or a Jewish State, but they can't have both.
> Tough choice for racists, I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> Very tough.
Click to expand...



You are very confused     Israel as a "jewish nation"   is not ruled by religious law---there is nothing going on in Israel or in its laws that is not entirely consistent with  DEMOCRACY

Unless you consider the fact that  CHRISTMAS  is considered a bank holiday in the USA -----as being INCONSISTENT  with  democracy-----you really have nothing to suggest that Israel has laws inconsistent with democracy   unless you are a racist and can tolerate  CHRISTMAS as a bank holiday    ----but not the first day of passover


----------



## irosie91

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no    there is nothing illegal about occupation      Once a war is won----the defeated remain occupied until they surrender and accept terms    ----remember germany?     remember Japan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims victory before the Palestinians surrender.
> 
> That is an interesting concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So from one side of your mouth you claim the "Palestinians" have yet to surrender and from the other side you claim there was no war.
Click to expand...



its ok     either way------whether Israel won the  1967 war or that war is STILL ON-----the fact is that   the actions by Israel regarding Gaza are entirely legal      In fact since the gazans insist that the war IS STILL ON------bombing gaza out of existence would be legal but not according to shariah law or the Nuremburg laws


----------



## Douger

Sundowner47 said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It appears that such otherwise reasonable considerations as history...documentation...broadly acknowledged cultural narrative...census data...taxation records--the entire mass of collective information pertaining to the social, political and cultural realities of the Fertile Crescent are reduced to irrelevancy in the face of militant-polemical Zionism. Given the irreducible historical locus of Palestine in world history---as well as the religious significance attached to the region, it is mind-boggling that any emerging 20th century political movement would dare presume to revise this critical history to reflect the designs of their political and military treachery, but that is the core of Zionism, and should there be any lingering doubts I would invite any doubter to sample some of the mindless commentary offered here by Jews...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heh, heh, heh:
> Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
> "Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!
> Thanks for playing. Y'all come back now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shouldn't that line correctly read:  "23,000 days of illegal occupation---and still whining"??
Click to expand...

Or 23,000 days of living off welfare from The Great Satan.


----------



## irosie91

jillian said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the  "FERTILE CRESCENT"????    is he into  GILGAMESH or  NIMROD?     He is certainly not into the  Talmud
> 
> one of the most interesting issues relating to the first book of the bible   called in english  "genesis" -----is the clear rejection of the Hummarabi code -----another fascinating issue is the retention of basic aspects of the hummarabi code in shariah law------which suggests to me that the legal code of pre islamic arabia was highly influenced by  Hummarabi and nimrod
> 
> I had no idea that there were extant tax records   from SUMERIA        how fascinating.     I wonder how the tax structure worked.     The society was very very stratified-----taxes were probably broadbased with the upper classes being exempted altogether
> 
> 
> 
> 
> actually, some of the earliest known writing is from sumeria... but it's mostly wage and accounting statements that shows beer was used as currency.
Click to expand...





no tax records?       was there are tax system?     There are also accounts of legal issues -----how lawsuits were adjudicated      ----some very odd laws-----like if a building fell down and killed a kid------the parents of the dead kid had a right to kill one of the builder's kids       that was their  TORT SYSTEM          torts turned into money in more advanced cultures-----like   jews and Assyrians.    A very interesting aspect of shariah law is that it preserved the   Sumerian system of  "tort law"        ---the movie  LAWRENCE OF ARABIA   desmonstrates the   islamic tort system when a person is killed--------blood feuds go on forever and it's LEGAL  until someone finally comes up with  a plan and ceremony to end the thing---sometimes including an  FEMALE EXCHANGE


----------



## docmauser1

Sundowner47 said:


> _It appears that such otherwise reasonable considerations as history...documentation...broadly acknowledged cultural narrative...census data...taxation records ..._


Cool. Posting taxation records will be a boost, of course.


----------



## georgephillip

How are you defining "Israel"?

If you define the Jewish State as encompassing all human beings living under Israeli civil and military laws, you are NOT talking about one person one vote.

Have you decided on that eastern border yet?


----------



## P F Tinmore

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no    there is nothing illegal about occupation      Once a war is won----the defeated remain occupied until they surrender and accept terms    ----remember germany?     remember Japan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims victory before the Palestinians surrender.
> 
> That is an interesting concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So from one side of your mouth you claim the "Palestinians" have yet to surrender and from the other side you claim there was no war.
Click to expand...


It is still Israel's military attacking Palestinian civilians.

Whatever you call it.


----------



## irosie91

The war of  1967  involved ARMIES on all sides


----------



## irosie91

georgephillip said:


> How are you defining "Israel"?
> 
> If you define the Jewish State as encompassing all human beings living under Israeli civil and military laws, you are NOT talking about one person one vote.
> 
> Have you decided on that eastern border yet?




I have really interesting news for you------  ONE PERSON  ONE VOTE is not a necessary condition of a democratic society      In fact the USA      is not a democratic society if you insist on  ONE PERSON --ONE VOTE--------and PLATO's republic did not come remotely close

   can you name a country in which    ONE PERSON --ONE VOTE is not breached in some way?          I seem to remember that  OCCUPIED JAPAN  did not vote in US presidential elections--------in fact------I am not sure  Puerto Ricans living over there get to vote in US presidential elections        ANYONE KNOW?      Virgin islands?   

the eastern border remains in question.      Border disputes exist in my town between neighbors   regarding their BACKYARDS----sometimes inches into the tomato patch------a real problem is  the apple tree with OVER HANGING BRANCHES


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> The war of  1967  involved ARMIES on all sides



The Palestinians did not have an army.


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The war of  1967  involved ARMIES on all sides
> 
> 
> 
> _The Palestinians did not have an army._
Click to expand...

Only terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The war of  1967  involved ARMIES on all sides
> 
> 
> 
> _The Palestinians did not have an army._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only terrorists.
Click to expand...


----------



## pbel

irosie91 said:


> no    there is nothing illegal about occupation      Once a war is won----the defeated remain occupied until they surrender and accept terms    ----remember germany?     remember Japan?



I don't think the Muslims will ever surrender...they haven't yet. Even if Israel murders every Palestinian this war of attrition will continue unless it is Israel that accepts Terms.

Israel's small population will never be enought to occupy their enemies without constant loss.

Sixty eight years and no surrender, get ready for more.


----------



## P F Tinmore

pbel said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no    there is nothing illegal about occupation      Once a war is won----the defeated remain occupied until they surrender and accept terms    ----remember germany?     remember Japan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the Muslims will ever surrender...they haven't yet. Even if Israel murders every Palestinian this war of attrition will continue unless it is Israel that accepts Terms.
> 
> Israel's small population will never be enought to occupy their enemies without constant loss.
> 
> Sixty eight years and no surrender, get ready for more.
Click to expand...


The Palestinians have the legal and moral high ground. Why should they be the ones to surrender?


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> How are you defining "Israel"?
> 
> If you define the Jewish State as encompassing all human beings living under Israeli civil and military laws, you are NOT talking about one person one vote.
> 
> Have you decided on that eastern border yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have really interesting news for you------  ONE PERSON  ONE VOTE is not a necessary condition of a democratic society      In fact the USA      is not a democratic society if you insist on  ONE PERSON --ONE VOTE--------and PLATO's republic did not come remotely close
> 
> can you name a country in which    ONE PERSON --ONE VOTE is not breached in some way?          I seem to remember that  OCCUPIED JAPAN  did not vote in US presidential elections--------in fact------I am not sure  Puerto Ricans living over there get to vote in US presidential elections        ANYONE KNOW?      Virgin islands?
> 
> the eastern border remains in question.      Border disputes exist in my town between neighbors   regarding their BACKYARDS----sometimes inches into the tomato patch------a real problem is  the apple tree with OVER HANGING BRANCHES
Click to expand...

iro, you seriously have a large hate on for arabs, but it's still not too late to move away from them, and you could live the few remaining years that you have left in tranquility, because they seriously corrupted your thought process to where not one nice word has ever come out of your mouth.


----------



## Jos

Israel's have the right to Exit


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn

Jos said:


> Israel's have the right to Exit



And the meek shall inherit the land.


----------



## docmauser1

pbel said:


> _I don't think the Muslims will ever surrender...they haven't yet._


Indeed, until either the globe is thoroughly islamized into dar el islam, or the purveyors of the latter are thoroughly put to rest, of course.


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn

pbel said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no    there is nothing illegal about occupation      Once a war is won----the defeated remain occupied until they surrender and accept terms    ----remember germany?     remember Japan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the Muslims will ever surrender...they haven't yet. Even if Israel murders every Palestinian this war of attrition will continue unless it is Israel that accepts Terms.
> 
> Israel's small population will never be enought to occupy their enemies without constant loss.
> 
> Sixty eight years and no surrender, get ready for more.
Click to expand...


pbel,

I agree. 

Even if every Palestinian was murdered, there would be nonJews left in the land, left to kill to preserve the Jewish Israeli race and keep it pure.

Just look at some of the stories about African migrants  in the news today, children are being thrown into jails, parents are begging for child welfare agencies to take away their kids because they cannot feed them. 

And what identifies all those discriminated against in Israel, from these news stories? 

They are all nonJewish.

I feel like history is being relived, there are so many similarities beween Hitler's Germany and Zionist's Israel. A superior race must be preserved, at any and all cost.

Sherri


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> _The Palestinians have the legal and moral high ground._


Palistanians have no land and no borders and aren't a people, but are one motor-mouth.


----------



## docmauser1

pbel said:


> _Chomsky is one of the great Polymaths of our time,,,you Sniffer are but a pimple on his ass!_


Is it a hint at some intimate knowledge of Chomsky's anatomy?


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Arabs broke their "silence in the field of peace initiatives" in 1976 at the UNSC. Conspicuous war profits prevented the US and Israeli bastards from participating._
> 
> 
> 
> We aren't discussing Chomsky's fringe babblography here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> We're discussing those who never miss a chance for peace._
Click to expand...

That's what palistanians do, of course. It's one of their occupations. They should get a life and a job.


georgephillip said:


> _That would be Washington and Israel._


They aren't palistanian-occupied territories to fit the contention, of course.


georgephillip said:


> _Feel free to refute any of Chomsky's content:_


Too much drivellaggio to "refute", too little time, of course, so, we're feeling free to diss it.


----------



## Sundowner47

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The Palestinians have the legal and moral high ground._
> 
> 
> 
> Palistanians have no land and no borders and aren't a people, but are one motor-mouth.
Click to expand...



Why do people like you festoon countless message-boards with your ignorance?  If you are too undeveloped academically to plumb through the most basic transcripts of history, and still come away from it with these insolent, impossibly ignorant routines I can only assume that there is a pronounced learning disability...whatever the circumstance informing this cave-man-like ignorance please understand  the most uncontroversial lessons of this conflict: a brazen political movement of European Jews exploited the holocaust so as to steal the lands of historic Palestine, and re-write its history to their satisfaction....there are two central values that we ca immediately ascribe to this mindset: advanced stupidity...and shameless immorality


----------



## Sundowner47

The fictive "right to exist" has no legal or historical point of reference, hence in the case of Israel, this much-bruited piece of fantasy attains a circulation completely uniformed by any factual reference....the slogan is both emblematic/symptomatic of Zionist bully-tactics...if such a bizarre right was indeed supported by anexternal legal authority it would equate to a denial of the native Palestinian right to exist on lands they have occupied in vast majority since the late seventh century...but apparently "god's chosen" have the authority to invoke an absentee land-claim that spans 13 centuries--what a curious novelty indeed

LOL


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _The Al-Aqsa Intifada began in September 2000 when your pathic soul mate, Sharon, desecrated the third-holiest site of Islam, ..._


Which happens to be a desecrated byzantine church of St. Mary of Justinian, of course.


----------



## docmauser1

Sundowner47 said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The Palestinians have the legal and moral high ground._
> 
> 
> 
> Palistanians have no land and no borders and aren't a people, but are one motor-mouth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Why do people like you festoon countless message-boards with your ignorance?  If you are too undeveloped academically to plumb through the most basic transcripts of history, and still come away from it with ..._
Click to expand...

Oh, bog off.


----------



## Sundowner47

docmauser1 said:


> sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> palistanians have no land and no borders and aren't a people, but are one motor-mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> _why do people like you festoon countless message-boards with your ignorance?  If you are too undeveloped academically to plumb through the most basic transcripts of history, and still come away from it with ..._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> oh, bog off.
Click to expand...



wow!!!!!  Talk about an informed refutation....stupid....stupid...stupid


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Either you are historically retarded, or you have been brainwashed by Jewish/Zionist propaganda...I'm guessing an equal measure of both. Palestine has an easily detailed history that is impossible to distort or dismiss, but this reality hardly discourages the vile Jewish revisionists from their crude attempts to occupy living history...as for Israel's "right to exist" please post a reference to this often invoked---yet mysteriously undocumented right...certainly your smug dismissal of any challenge to this fictive right suggests an easy answer...
> 
> 
> 
> How about you giving us some of this detailed history of the Palestinian people?.  Have their been any archeological finds which can prove that these people have been there for ages and ages?  There are finds all the times which show the Jews have been there for a very long time, but I am wondering if you can educate us as to what has been found with regard to the Palestinian  Arabs.  Anything you can supply us with will be deeply appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> jt2
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Here's one (Saudi) Arabian perspective:*
> 
> *"Palestinians have continuously resided in Palestine since four thousand years before Christ*, Abo-Sak pointed out. Their ancestors built the cities of Jerusalem, Nablus, Jericho, Beisan, Acca and Jaffa.
> 
> "*The Hebrews arrived in the land between 1400-1200 B.C*., and only maintained control over it during the lifetimes of King David and his son King Solomon &#8211; *a period of about 80 years*.
> 
> "The land then came under Greek and Roman rule, and was then conquered by Islam in the year 637 A.D. under the second Caliph, Omar.
> 
> "By that time, the Jews had already left Jerusalem, and Christianity was the dominant religion. The Caliph granted full security to all Christians, including personal safety, and protection of property, religion and churches.
> 
> "The Muslims declared Jerusalem the capital of Palestine, and the city remained under Islamic rule until the end of the Ottoman Empire in 1918, except for a brief time of Christian rule under the Crusaders.
> 
> "In this century, the eastern Mediterranean became subject to British and French occupation as a result of the First World War, and Palestine came under British military occupation. The British encouraged the Arabs to gain their independence from the Ottoman Empire and promised them support if they stood on the side of the allies during the First World War.
> 
> "However the British reneged on the promise, and British Foreign Minister Arthur James Balfour promised the International Zionists a homeland for the Jews in Palestine.
> 
> "At the time, the population of Palestine was comprised of *95% Arabs (both Christians and Muslims), 4% Palestinian Jews, and 1% expatriates. The Jews owned only 2% of the land."*
> 
> US Involvement in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Solution or Complication? by Lt. Col. Mohammed F. Abo-Sak
Click to expand...

So, George, we are supposed to believe what Saudi Arabia says.  How would they know what went on years ago when they didn't even leave the Peninsula until Islam was invented and they started to invade the surrounding countries.  Do you really think there were Arabs in Egypt even in the 5th Century A.D.?  Yeah, I guess you would take the world of a Saudi if he told you the Arabs were there in Egypt for thousands of years.  Now give us a little proof that there were "Palestinian" people there in Israel other than the Jews.  Surely there must be reams of information from archeologists telling us of all the wonderful finds to prove that there were "Palestinians" there.


jt2


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The war of  1967  involved ARMIES on all sides
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians did not have an army.
Click to expand...


Gaza was PART OF EGYPT  and   the "WEST BANK"  was part of  Jordan     I have no idea if  Jordan and Egypt refused to allow persons who identified themselves as  ETERNAL REFUGEES      into their armies        maybe they did not because both of them really do hate  "BALESTINIANS"    but that is not Israel's fault


----------



## Hossfly

Sundowner47 said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The Palestinians have the legal and moral high ground._
> 
> 
> 
> Palistanians have no land and no borders and aren't a people, but are one motor-mouth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why do people like you festoon countless message-boards with your ignorance?  If you are too undeveloped academically to plumb through the most basic transcripts of history, and still come away from it with these insolent, impossibly ignorant routines I can only assume that there is a pronounced learning disability...whatever the circumstance informing this cave-man-like ignorance please understand  the most uncontroversial lessons of this conflict: a brazen political movement of European Jews exploited the holocaust so as to steal the lands of historic Palestine, and re-write its history to their satisfaction....there are two central values that we ca immediately ascribe to this mindset: advanced stupidity...and shameless immorality
Click to expand...

While this new poster has been LOLing at a lot of things, I have to LOL with his words "shameless immorality."  It appears that he and the other Jew haters conveniently overlook the real shameless immorality of the Muslims murdering people in the name of their religion, even when it comes down to their murdering each other of different sect.  This is the genuine shameless immorality. Meanwhile, I do believe a Jewish homeland was planned even before World War II and the Holocaust.  Such a scholar as Sundowner might like to check into this.



jt2


----------



## Sundowner47

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The war of  1967  involved ARMIES on all sides
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians did not have an army.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza was PART OF EGYPT  and   the "WEST BANK"  was part of  Jordan     I have no idea if  Jordan and Egypt refused to allow persons who identified themselves as  ETERNAL REFUGEES      into their armies        maybe they did not because both of them really do hate  "BALESTINIANS"    but that is not Israel's fault
Click to expand...


Again here, we seem to have difficulty with facts penetrating---certainly an understandable impasse when considering the Zio-Zombie mentality...alas your argument is with public statements made by the likes of Begin...Dayan...Weitman...but what would they know???

LOLOL


----------



## MJB12741

Those Zionists should all burn in hell for their treatment of the Palestinians with their damn peace offerings, security fence & land concessions keeping the Palestinians in Israel.





SherriMunnerlyn said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no    there is nothing illegal about occupation      Once a war is won----the defeated remain occupied until they surrender and accept terms    ----remember germany?     remember Japan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the Muslims will ever surrender...they haven't yet. Even if Israel murders every Palestinian this war of attrition will continue unless it is Israel that accepts Terms.
> 
> Israel's small population will never be enought to occupy their enemies without constant loss.
> 
> Sixty eight years and no surrender, get ready for more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> pbel,
> 
> I agree.
> 
> Even if every Palestinian was murdered, there would be nonJews left in the land, left to kill to preserve the Jewish Israeli race and keep it pure.
> 
> Just look at some of the stories about African migrants  in the news today, children are being thrown into jails, parents are begging for child welfare agencies to take away their kids because they cannot feed them.
> 
> And what identifies all those discriminated against in Israel, from these news stories?
> 
> They are all nonJewish.
> 
> I feel like history is being relived, there are so many similarities beween Hitler's Germany and Zionist's Israel. A superior race must be preserved, at any and all cost.
> 
> Sherri
Click to expand...


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _Which came first Taba or the Second Intifada?_


It's rather cretinous not to know that first was Barak, of course. In memorable words of leftist ex-foreign minister Ben Ami interviewed by Ari Shavit of the Haaretz
"... The Palestinians, in contrast, insisted that the discussion open with a "recognition by Israel of the 1967 lines. They were very rigid on that point. I will never forget a discussion in the presence of President Clinton and Madeleine Albright and Sandy Berger in which I suggested that we enter into a discussion on the basis of the hypothesis of the 1967 borders, but without committing ourselves to them [resolution 242. - doc]. Abu Ala vehemently refused to enter into that dynamic. He insisted that we first of all recognize the borders of June 4, 1967"
"After a time, Clinton became boiling mad and started shouting terribly. He told Abu Ala that this wasn't a speech at the United Nations, and that the Palestinians had to come up with positive proposals of their own. Clinton shouted that no one would be able to get everything he wanted and that he too would like to serve a third term as president, but he knew that was impossible. He turned completely red and finally got up and stalked out. Abu Ala was deeply offended. From that moment, almost the only thing he did at Camp David was drive around the lawns in a golf cart"
Ari Shavit - Didn't the Palestinians make a counterproposal?
"No. And that is the heart of the matter. Never, in the negotiations between us and the Palestinians, was there a Palestinian counterproposal. There never was and there never will be. So the Israeli negotiator always finds himself in a dilemma: Either I get up and walk out because these guys aren't ready to put forward proposals of their own, or I make another concession. In the end, even the most moderate negotiator reaches a point where he understands that there is no end to it." ...


----------



## docmauser1

Sundowner47 said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> _why do people like you festoon countless message-boards with your ignorance?  If you are too undeveloped academically to plumb through the most basic transcripts of history, and still come away from it with ..._
> 
> 
> 
> oh, bog off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _wow!!!!!  Talk about an informed refutation....stupid....stupid...stupid_
Click to expand...

Oh, bog off.


----------



## Sundowner47

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Which came first Taba or the Second Intifada?_
> 
> 
> 
> It's rather cretinous not to know that first was Barak, of course. In memorable words of leftist ex-foreign minister Ben Ami interviewed by Ari Shavit of the Haaretz
> "... The Palestinians, in contrast, insisted that the discussion open with a "recognition by Israel of the 1967 lines. They were very rigid on that point. I will never forget a discussion in the presence of President Clinton and Madeleine Albright and Sandy Berger in which I suggested that we enter into a discussion on the basis of the hypothesis of the 1967 borders, but without committing ourselves to them [resolution 242. - doc]. Abu Ala vehemently refused to enter into that dynamic. He insisted that we first of all recognize the borders of June 4, 1967"
> "After a time, Clinton became boiling mad and started shouting terribly. He told Abu Ala that this wasn't a speech at the United Nations, and that the Palestinians had to come up with positive proposals of their own. Clinton shouted that no one would be able to get everything he wanted and that he too would like to serve a third term as president, but he knew that was impossible. He turned completely red and finally got up and stalked out. Abu Ala was deeply offended. From that moment, almost the only thing he did at Camp David was drive around the lawns in a golf cart"
> Ari Shavit - Didn't the Palestinians make a counterproposal?
> "No. And that is the heart of the matter. Never, in the negotiations between us and the Palestinians, was there a Palestinian counterproposal. There never was and there never will be. So the Israeli negotiator always finds himself in a dilemma: Either I get up and walk out because these guys aren't ready to put forward proposals of their own, or I make another concession. In the end, even the most moderate negotiator reaches a point where he understands that there is no end to it." ...[/QUOTE
> 
> Correction you fertile imbecile---there never were any substantive negotiations with the Palestinians...so long as our media responds to the dictates of Zionist propaganda we are regaled with pure nonsense pertaining to Israel "generous offers for peace"...lucky for the spin-artists that rank-n-file Zionists are mindless zombies who repeat what they are told...
Click to expand...


----------



## MJB12741

No Arab country ever treated the Palestinians like Israel does.  When will Israel ever treat the Palestinians like king hussein did to establish a lasting peace from them?  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!


----------



## docmauser1

Sundowner47 said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Which came first Taba or the Second Intifada?_
> 
> 
> 
> It's rather cretinous not to know that first was Barak, of course. In memorable words of leftist ex-foreign minister Ben Ami interviewed by Ari Shavit of the Haaretz
> "... The Palestinians, in contrast, insisted that the discussion open with a "recognition by Israel of the 1967 lines. They were very rigid on that point. I will never forget a discussion in the presence of President Clinton and Madeleine Albright and Sandy Berger in which I suggested that we enter into a discussion on the basis of the hypothesis of the 1967 borders, but without committing ourselves to them [resolution 242. - doc]. Abu Ala vehemently refused to enter into that dynamic. He insisted that we first of all recognize the borders of June 4, 1967"
> "After a time, Clinton became boiling mad and started shouting terribly. He told Abu Ala that this wasn't a speech at the United Nations, and that the Palestinians had to come up with positive proposals of their own. Clinton shouted that no one would be able to get everything he wanted and that he too would like to serve a third term as president, but he knew that was impossible. He turned completely red and finally got up and stalked out. Abu Ala was deeply offended. From that moment, almost the only thing he did at Camp David was drive around the lawns in a golf cart"
> Ari Shavit - Didn't the Palestinians make a counterproposal?
> "No. And that is the heart of the matter. Never, in the negotiations between us and the Palestinians, was there a Palestinian counterproposal. There never was and there never will be. So the Israeli negotiator always finds himself in a dilemma: Either I get up and walk out because these guys aren't ready to put forward proposals of their own, or I make another concession. In the end, even the most moderate negotiator reaches a point where he understands that there is no end to it." ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Correction you fertile imbecile---there never were any ..._
Click to expand...

Oh, bog off.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sundowner47 said:


> The fictive "right to exist" has no legal or historical point of reference, hence in the case of Israel, this much-bruited piece of fantasy attains a circulation completely uniformed by any factual reference....the slogan is both emblematic/symptomatic of Zionist bully-tactics...if such a bizarre right was indeed supported by anexternal legal authority it would equate to a denial of the native Palestinian right to exist on lands they have occupied in vast majority since the late seventh century...but apparently "god's chosen" have the authority to invoke an absentee land-claim that spans 13 centuries--what a curious novelty indeed
> 
> LOL



Israel demands that the Palestinians recognize Israel's right to exist inside Palestine's borders on Palestinian land.

A most bizarre request, indeed.


----------



## irosie91

Both tinny and sherri   continue to INSIST  that jews have no right to buy or own land        Both Sherri and tinny continue to insist that if a MUSLIM is born in any land     then muslims OWN that land simply for being born there but jews who have lived in specific lands for thousands of years have NO RIGHTS OF OWNERSHIP and both tinny and sherri  insist that muslims have the right to rape and murder   christians, jews and hindus  and enslave their children     Sherri----in particular ----supports the idea that muslims have a right to enslave and bugger Jesus


----------



## Roudy

toastman said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no    there is nothing illegal about occupation      Once a war is won----the defeated remain occupied until they surrender and accept terms    ----remember germany?     remember Japan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem remains that there was no war---merely a well-organized terrorist campaign to drive out the indigenous people and steal their land...calling this war is an attempt to justify piracy, and a set of lies that would make Goebbells wince in embarrassment
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you referring to the Land that was taken by Israel after the end of the 1967 war?
Click to expand...

What is this?  A neo Nazi sock party?  No dickhead, Arabs lost a war they started to destroy Israel, and they're still whining about it.


----------



## irosie91

Roudy said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem remains that there was no war---merely a well-organized terrorist campaign to drive out the indigenous people and steal their land...calling this war is an attempt to justify piracy, and a set of lies that would make Goebbells wince in embarrassment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you referring to the Land that was taken by Israel after the end of the 1967 war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is this?  A neo Nazi sock party?  No dickhead, Arabs lost a war they started to destroy Israel, and they're still whining about it.
Click to expand...



Roudy     I am SURPRISED AT YOU------did you not know that Israel is not PERMITTED TO WIN WARS against muslims-----that is the LAW AS PER ISLAMO NAZI PIGS       Israel was supposed to surrender and request that its children be enslaved and its women raped --------as per the desires of the rapist pig of arabia


----------



## MJB12741

As the Jewish population continues & Israel could use more land, maybe Israel will get lucky & the Arabs will start another war.





irosie91 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you referring to the Land that was taken by Israel after the end of the 1967 war?
> 
> 
> 
> What is this?  A neo Nazi sock party?  No dickhead, Arabs lost a war they started to destroy Israel, and they're still whining about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy     I am SURPRISED AT YOU------did you not know that Israel is not PERMITTED TO WIN WARS against muslims-----that is the LAW AS PER ISLAMO NAZI PIGS       Israel was supposed to surrender and request that its children be enslaved and its women raped --------as per the desires of the rapist pig of arabia
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> Both tinny and sherri   continue to INSIST  that jews have no right to buy or own land        Both Sherri and tinny continue to insist that if a MUSLIM is born in any land     then muslims OWN that land simply for being born there but jews who have lived in specific lands for thousands of years have NO RIGHTS OF OWNERSHIP and both tinny and sherri  insist that muslims have the right to rape and murder   christians, jews and hindus  and enslave their children     Sherri----in particular ----supports the idea that muslims have a right to enslave and bugger Jesus



*Nonsense.*

Palestinian Christians and Jew can and do own land, homes, and businesses in Palestine.


----------



## toastman

Roudy said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem remains that there was no war---merely a well-organized terrorist campaign to drive out the indigenous people and steal their land...calling this war is an attempt to justify piracy, and a set of lies that would make Goebbells wince in embarrassment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you referring to the Land that was taken by Israel after the end of the 1967 war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is this?  A neo Nazi sock party?  No dickhead, Arabs lost a war they started to destroy Israel, and they're still whining about it.
Click to expand...


This is pretty much it. How anyone can back the Arabs is beyond me . They are murderous and torture their own people. Israel gives, food, water and electricity to the Palestenians. 
The dictators in the other Arab countries live lavish lifestyles while their people live in poverty.


----------



## Roudy

irosie91 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you referring to the Land that was taken by Israel after the end of the 1967 war?
> 
> 
> 
> What is this?  A neo Nazi sock party?  No dickhead, Arabs lost a war they started to destroy Israel, and they're still whining about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy     I am SURPRISED AT YOU------did you not know that Israel is not PERMITTED TO WIN WARS against muslims-----that is the LAW AS PER ISLAMO NAZI PIGS       Israel was supposed to surrender and request that its children be enslaved and its women raped --------as per the desires of the rapist pig of arabia
Click to expand...

And that's exactly what seems to bother the Muslims in general. After hundreds of years of persecution and abuse, living as second class citizens, Islamic Shariah apartheid laws that prevent Jews from having the same rights as Muslims, the Jews finally fled from the animals and established their own country.  To make matters worse they don't take shit from Muslims anymore and in fact have kicked their asses over and over. Not to mention all the progress and prosperity Israel shows compared to corrupt oppressive Muslim shitholes.

These are not the same submissive Jews Arabs are used to, and never will be.


----------



## SAYIT

Hossfly said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palistanians have no land and no borders and aren't a people, but are one motor-mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do people like you festoon countless message-boards with your ignorance?  If you are too undeveloped academically to plumb through the most basic transcripts of history, and still come away from it with these insolent, impossibly ignorant routines I can only assume that there is a pronounced learning disability...whatever the circumstance informing this cave-man-like ignorance please understand  the most uncontroversial lessons of this conflict: a brazen political movement of European Jews exploited the holocaust so as to steal the lands of historic Palestine, and re-write its history to their satisfaction....there are two central values that we ca immediately ascribe to this mindset: advanced stupidity...and shameless immorality
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While this new poster has been LOLing at a lot of things, I have to LOL with his words "shameless immorality."  It appears that he and the other Jew haters conveniently overlook the real shameless immorality of the Muslims murdering people in the name of their religion, even when it comes down to their murdering each other of different sect.  This is the genuine shameless immorality. Meanwhile, I do believe a Jewish homeland was planned even before World War II and the Holocaust.  Such a scholar as Sundowner might like to check into this.
> jt2
Click to expand...


Just another day for those adherants of the "Religion of Peace":

KAMRA, Pakistan (AP)  Heavily armed Taliban fighters blasted their way into a Pakistani air force base with possible links to the countrys nuclear program in a brazen assault that took two hours of fighting to put down, leaving two security officers and nine insurgents dead and underscoring the groups continued threat despite numerous military offensives.

*Hours later, Taliban gunmen in northern Pakistan forced 20 Shiite Muslims off buses, lined them up and killed them, the latest in a series of sectarian attacks that the government has seemingly done little to stop.*

The separate incidents emphasize two daunting challenges the nuclear-armed country faces. The Pakistani Taliban continue to pose a potent threat despite numerous military offensives against their sanctuaries along the Afghan border. At the same time, sectarian violence plagues the Sunni majority country where Shiite Muslims often feel under attack.


----------



## Sundowner47

Hossfly said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palistanians have no land and no borders and aren't a people, but are one motor-mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do people like you festoon countless message-boards with your ignorance?  If you are too undeveloped academically to plumb through the most basic transcripts of history, and still come away from it with these insolent, impossibly ignorant routines I can only assume that there is a pronounced learning disability...whatever the circumstance informing this cave-man-like ignorance please understand  the most uncontroversial lessons of this conflict: a brazen political movement of European Jews exploited the holocaust so as to steal the lands of historic Palestine, and re-write its history to their satisfaction....there are two central values that we ca immediately ascribe to this mindset: advanced stupidity...and shameless immorality
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While this new poster has been LOLing at a lot of things, I have to LOL with his words "shameless immorality."  It appears that he and the other Jew haters conveniently overlook the real shameless immorality of the Muslims murdering people in the name of their religion, even when it comes down to their murdering each other of different sect.  This is the genuine shameless immorality. Meanwhile, I do believe a Jewish homeland was planned even before World War II and the Holocaust.  Such a scholar as Sundowner might like to check into this.
> 
> 
> 
> jt2
Click to expand...


Housefly....you seem to spin on the Zionist response template...beyond this rudimentary teaching-aid you have zero ability to think...reason...decipher...in short all the values that meet the criteria for critical intelligence...The Israeli/Palestinians conflict has nothing to do with issues of Islam---scurrilous Jews merely exploit the fashionable post-9/11 anti-Muslim attitudes as a cover for their torture chamber...and yes stupid--there was a Jewish homeland panned before WW2---it was planned by the vile Zionists, who promptly exploited the Holocaust as a means to an end...the moral depravity speaks clearly


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about you giving us some of this detailed history of the Palestinian people?.  Have their been any archeological finds which can prove that these people have been there for ages and ages?  There are finds all the times which show the Jews have been there for a very long time, but I am wondering if you can educate us as to what has been found with regard to the Palestinian  Arabs.  Anything you can supply us with will be deeply appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> jt2
> 
> 
> 
> *Here's one (Saudi) Arabian perspective:*
> 
> *"Palestinians have continuously resided in Palestine since four thousand years before Christ*, Abo-Sak pointed out. Their ancestors built the cities of Jerusalem, Nablus, Jericho, Beisan, Acca and Jaffa.
> 
> "*The Hebrews arrived in the land between 1400-1200 B.C*., and only maintained control over it during the lifetimes of King David and his son King Solomon &#8211; *a period of about 80 years*.
> 
> "The land then came under Greek and Roman rule, and was then conquered by Islam in the year 637 A.D. under the second Caliph, Omar.
> 
> "By that time, the Jews had already left Jerusalem, and Christianity was the dominant religion. The Caliph granted full security to all Christians, including personal safety, and protection of property, religion and churches.
> 
> "The Muslims declared Jerusalem the capital of Palestine, and the city remained under Islamic rule until the end of the Ottoman Empire in 1918, except for a brief time of Christian rule under the Crusaders.
> 
> "In this century, the eastern Mediterranean became subject to British and French occupation as a result of the First World War, and Palestine came under British military occupation. The British encouraged the Arabs to gain their independence from the Ottoman Empire and promised them support if they stood on the side of the allies during the First World War.
> 
> "However the British reneged on the promise, and British Foreign Minister Arthur James Balfour promised the International Zionists a homeland for the Jews in Palestine.
> 
> "At the time, the population of Palestine was comprised of *95% Arabs (both Christians and Muslims), 4% Palestinian Jews, and 1% expatriates. The Jews owned only 2% of the land."*
> 
> US Involvement in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Solution or Complication? by Lt. Col. Mohammed F. Abo-Sak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, George, we are supposed to believe what Saudi Arabia says.  How would they know what went on years ago when they didn't even leave the Peninsula until Islam was invented and they started to invade the surrounding countries.  Do you really think there were Arabs in Egypt even in the 5th Century A.D.?  Yeah, I guess you would take the world of a Saudi if he told you the Arabs were there in Egypt for thousands of years.  Now give us a little proof that there were "Palestinian" people there in Israel other than the Jews.  Surely there must be reams of information from archeologists telling us of all the wonderful finds to prove that there were "Palestinians" there.
> 
> 
> jt2
Click to expand...

*Why don't we start with Lord Balfour:*

"At the time, the population of Palestine was comprised of 95% Arabs (both Christians and Muslims), 4% Palestinian Jews, and 1% expatriates. The Jews owned only 2% of the land."

What percent of the same land do the "chosen people" own today?

US Involvement in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Solution or Complication? by Lt. Col. Mohammed F. Abo-Sak


----------



## toastman

Sundowner47 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do people like you festoon countless message-boards with your ignorance?  If you are too undeveloped academically to plumb through the most basic transcripts of history, and still come away from it with these insolent, impossibly ignorant routines I can only assume that there is a pronounced learning disability...whatever the circumstance informing this cave-man-like ignorance please understand  the most uncontroversial lessons of this conflict: a brazen political movement of European Jews exploited the holocaust so as to steal the lands of historic Palestine, and re-write its history to their satisfaction....there are two central values that we ca immediately ascribe to this mindset: advanced stupidity...and shameless immorality
> 
> 
> 
> While this new poster has been LOLing at a lot of things, I have to LOL with his words "shameless immorality."  It appears that he and the other Jew haters conveniently overlook the real shameless immorality of the Muslims murdering people in the name of their religion, even when it comes down to their murdering each other of different sect.  This is the genuine shameless immorality. Meanwhile, I do believe a Jewish homeland was planned even before World War II and the Holocaust.  Such a scholar as Sundowner might like to check into this.
> 
> 
> 
> jt2
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Housefly....you seem to spin on the Zionist response template...beyond this rudimentary teaching-aid you have zero ability to think...reason...decipher...in short all the values that meet the criteria for critical intelligence...The Israeli/Palestinians conflict has nothing to do with issues of Islam---scurrilous Jews merely exploit the fashionable post-9/11 anti-Muslim attitudes as a cover for their torture chamber...and yes stupid--there was a Jewish homeland panned before WW2---it was planned by the vile Zionists, who promptly exploited the Holocaust as a means to an end...the moral depravity speaks clearly
Click to expand...


Exploited the Holocaust? Now I know you're incompetent and uneducated. 
It's like you're trying to write your own version oh history.

The Jewish people will never leave from Israel. It will always be their homeland. 
No matter how many times they are attacked, they will survive.
No matter how much is destroyed, they will always rebuild it.

No matter how many threats, Israel will stand strong. 

These radical Muslim extremists that run countries like Iran and Syria have no value for human life, while Israel actually cares about its people. Soon, the middle east revolution will reach Iran. Their demise is not too far away.


----------



## Sundowner47

The fictive "right to exist" has no legal or historical point of reference, hence in the case of Israel, this much-bruited piece of fantasy attains a circulation completely uniformed by any factual reference....the slogan is both emblematic/symptomatic of Zionist bully-tactics...if such a bizarre right was indeed supported by an external legal authority it would equate to a denial of the native Palestinian right to exist on lands they have occupied in vast majority since the late seventh century...but apparently "god's chosen" have the authority to invoke an absentee land-claim that spans 13 centuries--what a curious novelty indeed

LOL


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> The fictive "right to exist" has no legal or historical point of reference, hence in the case of Israel, this much-bruited piece of fantasy attains a circulation completely uniformed by any factual reference....the slogan is both emblematic/symptomatic of Zionist bully-tactics...if such a bizarre right was indeed supported by an external legal authority it would equate to a denial of the native Palestinian right to exist on lands they have occupied in vast majority since the late seventh century...but apparently "god's chosen" have the authority to invoke an absentee land-claim that spans 13 centuries--what a curious novelty indeed
> LOL



I recommend that all Nazi types get used to the fact that Israel exists.
Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
"Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!


----------



## Hossfly

Sundowner47 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do people like you festoon countless message-boards with your ignorance?  If you are too undeveloped academically to plumb through the most basic transcripts of history, and still come away from it with these insolent, impossibly ignorant routines I can only assume that there is a pronounced learning disability...whatever the circumstance informing this cave-man-like ignorance please understand  the most uncontroversial lessons of this conflict: a brazen political movement of European Jews exploited the holocaust so as to steal the lands of historic Palestine, and re-write its history to their satisfaction....there are two central values that we ca immediately ascribe to this mindset: advanced stupidity...and shameless immorality
> 
> 
> 
> While this new poster has been LOLing at a lot of things, I have to LOL with his words "shameless immorality."  It appears that he and the other Jew haters conveniently overlook the real shameless immorality of the Muslims murdering people in the name of their religion, even when it comes down to their murdering each other of different sect.  This is the genuine shameless immorality. Meanwhile, I do believe a Jewish homeland was planned even before World War II and the Holocaust.  Such a scholar as Sundowner might like to check into this.
> 
> 
> 
> jt2
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Housefly....you seem to spin on the Zionist response template...beyond this rudimentary teaching-aid you have zero ability to think...reason...decipher...in short all the values that meet the criteria for critical intelligence...The Israeli/Palestinians conflict has nothing to do with issues of Islam---scurrilous Jews merely exploit the fashionable post-9/11 anti-Muslim attitudes as a cover for their torture chamber...and yes stupid--there was a Jewish homeland panned before WW2---it was planned by the vile Zionists, who promptly exploited the Holocaust as a means to an end...the moral depravity speaks clearly
Click to expand...

I will admit to being an uneducated hillbilly from West by god Virginia but I'm not a terrorist loving blivet such as the Sundown Kid. No offence intended.


----------



## Sundowner47

toastman said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you referring to the Land that was taken by Israel after the end of the 1967 war?
> 
> 
> 
> What is this?  A neo Nazi sock party?  No dickhead, Arabs lost a war they started to destroy Israel, and they're still whining about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is pretty much it. How anyone can back the Arabs is beyond me . They are murderous and torture their own people. Israel gives, food, water and electricity to the Palestenians.
> The dictators in the other Arab countries live lavish lifestyles while their people live in poverty.
Click to expand...


God the generosity that Israel has extended to the Palestinians brings a tear to my eyes---yet another example of the poor misunderstood Jews being beat-up for their countless acts of humanity and altruism...yes the Jews stole their land and even their historical identity...their narrative, subjected them to seven decades of collective punishment--all the while lying through their teeth about the nature of the conflict, but things could always be worse...those benevolent Israeli Jews did also manage to ghettoize the Palestinians on their own land...circulate filthy nonsense about them coming in from Jordan to take advantage of Jewish enterprise...but look at the tenderness with which the Jews exploit and terrorize them...I simply cannot continue because the tears are short-circuiting my keyboard...


----------



## Sundowner47

SAYIT said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fictive "right to exist" has no legal or historical point of reference, hence in the case of Israel, this much-bruited piece of fantasy attains a circulation completely uniformed by any factual reference....the slogan is both emblematic/symptomatic of Zionist bully-tactics...if such a bizarre right was indeed supported by an external legal authority it would equate to a denial of the native Palestinian right to exist on lands they have occupied in vast majority since the late seventh century...but apparently "god's chosen" have the authority to invoke an absentee land-claim that spans 13 centuries--what a curious novelty indeed
> LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I recommend that all Nazi types get used to the fact that Israel exists.
> Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
> "Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!
Click to expand...



Minor correction imbecile: 23, 000 days of illegal occupation and still whining...still killing...still stealing...still living off American taxpayers...still deceiving themselves...still caught in an act of slow-motion suicide...


----------



## Hossfly

Sundowner47 said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Which came first Taba or the Second Intifada?_
> 
> 
> 
> It's rather cretinous not to know that first was Barak, of course. In memorable words of leftist ex-foreign minister Ben Ami interviewed by Ari Shavit of the Haaretz
> "... The Palestinians, in contrast, insisted that the discussion open with a "recognition by Israel of the 1967 lines. They were very rigid on that point. I will never forget a discussion in the presence of President Clinton and Madeleine Albright and Sandy Berger in which I suggested that we enter into a discussion on the basis of the hypothesis of the 1967 borders, but without committing ourselves to them [resolution 242. - doc]. Abu Ala vehemently refused to enter into that dynamic. He insisted that we first of all recognize the borders of June 4, 1967"
> "After a time, Clinton became boiling mad and started shouting terribly. He told Abu Ala that this wasn't a speech at the United Nations, and that the Palestinians had to come up with positive proposals of their own. Clinton shouted that no one would be able to get everything he wanted and that he too would like to serve a third term as president, but he knew that was impossible. He turned completely red and finally got up and stalked out. Abu Ala was deeply offended. From that moment, almost the only thing he did at Camp David was drive around the lawns in a golf cart"
> Ari Shavit - Didn't the Palestinians make a counterproposal?
> "No. And that is the heart of the matter. Never, in the negotiations between us and the Palestinians, was there a Palestinian counterproposal. There never was and there never will be. So the Israeli negotiator always finds himself in a dilemma: Either I get up and walk out because these guys aren't ready to put forward proposals of their own, or I make another concession. In the end, even the most moderate negotiator reaches a point where he understands that there is no end to it." ...[/QUOTE
> 
> Correction you fertile imbecile---there never were any substantive negotiations with the Palestinians...so long as our media responds to the dictates of Zionist propaganda we are regaled with pure nonsense pertaining to Israel "generous offers for peace"...lucky for the spin-artists that rank-n-file Zionists are mindless zombies who repeat what they are told...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WTF is a 'fertile imbecile'? Would that be something like a 'bloomin' idiot'?
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Here's one (Saudi) Arabian perspective:*
> 
> *"Palestinians have continuously resided in Palestine since four thousand years before Christ*, Abo-Sak pointed out. Their ancestors built the cities of Jerusalem, Nablus, Jericho, Beisan, Acca and Jaffa.
> 
> "*The Hebrews arrived in the land between 1400-1200 B.C*., and only maintained control over it during the lifetimes of King David and his son King Solomon  *a period of about 80 years*.
> 
> "The land then came under Greek and Roman rule, and was then conquered by Islam in the year 637 A.D. under the second Caliph, Omar.
> 
> "By that time, the Jews had already left Jerusalem, and Christianity was the dominant religion. The Caliph granted full security to all Christians, including personal safety, and protection of property, religion and churches.
> 
> "The Muslims declared Jerusalem the capital of Palestine, and the city remained under Islamic rule until the end of the Ottoman Empire in 1918, except for a brief time of Christian rule under the Crusaders.
> 
> "In this century, the eastern Mediterranean became subject to British and French occupation as a result of the First World War, and Palestine came under British military occupation. The British encouraged the Arabs to gain their independence from the Ottoman Empire and promised them support if they stood on the side of the allies during the First World War.
> 
> "However the British reneged on the promise, and British Foreign Minister Arthur James Balfour promised the International Zionists a homeland for the Jews in Palestine.
> 
> "At the time, the population of Palestine was comprised of *95% Arabs (both Christians and Muslims), 4% Palestinian Jews, and 1% expatriates. The Jews owned only 2% of the land."*
> 
> US Involvement in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Solution or Complication? by Lt. Col. Mohammed F. Abo-Sak
> 
> 
> 
> So, George, we are supposed to believe what Saudi Arabia says.  How would they know what went on years ago when they didn't even leave the Peninsula until Islam was invented and they started to invade the surrounding countries.  Do you really think there were Arabs in Egypt even in the 5th Century A.D.?  Yeah, I guess you would take the world of a Saudi if he told you the Arabs were there in Egypt for thousands of years.  Now give us a little proof that there were "Palestinian" people there in Israel other than the Jews.  Surely there must be reams of information from archeologists telling us of all the wonderful finds to prove that there were "Palestinians" there.
> 
> 
> jt2
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Why don't we start with Lord Balfour:*
> 
> "At the time, the population of Palestine was comprised of 95% Arabs (both Christians and Muslims), 4% Palestinian Jews, and 1% expatriates. The Jews owned only 2% of the land."
> 
> What percent of the same land do the "chosen people" own today?
> 
> US Involvement in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Solution or Complication? by Lt. Col. Mohammed F. Abo-Sak
Click to expand...


About the same. Israelis don't own land. They own the homes but lease the land they sit on.

Like a big trailer park.


----------



## Hossfly

Sundowner47 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is this?  A neo Nazi sock party?  No dickhead, Arabs lost a war they started to destroy Israel, and they're still whining about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty much it. How anyone can back the Arabs is beyond me . They are murderous and torture their own people. Israel gives, food, water and electricity to the Palestenians.
> The dictators in the other Arab countries live lavish lifestyles while their people live in poverty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> God the generosity that Israel has extended to the Palestinians brings a tear to my eyes---yet another example of the poor misunderstood Jews being beat-up for their countless acts of humanity and altruism...yes the Jews stole their land and even their historical identity...their narrative, subjected them to seven decades of collective punishment--all the while lying through their teeth about the nature of the conflict, but things could always be worse...those benevolent Israeli Jews did also manage to ghettoize the Palestinians on their own land...circulate filthy nonsense about them coming in from Jordan to take advantage of Jewish enterprise...but look at the tenderness with which the Jews exploit and terrorize them...I simply cannot continue because the tears are short-circuiting my keyboard...
Click to expand...

Yes, the tears on actually running down my face over your foolishness.  I guess you are another one who would call Winston Churchill a liar.  Meanwhile, why not tell us why Muslims are leaving their wonderful Muslim lands and are flooding into Europe.  I would imagine it was the same reason they flooded into Israel when the Jews also had jobs for them. and the British officials in the area noticed this and reported back to London.. I am still waiting for you to show us the reams of archeological facts that the Palestinians people were there for thousands and thousands and thousands of years.  Surely something must have shown up about them at some archeological dig of which there have been so many.



jt2


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> The fictive "right to exist" has no legal or historical point of reference, hence in the case of Israel, this much-bruited piece of fantasy attains a circulation completely uniformed by any factual reference....the slogan is both emblematic/symptomatic of Zionist bully-tactics...if such a bizarre right was indeed supported by anexternal legal authority it would equate to a denial of the native Palestinian right to exist on lands they have occupied in vast majority since the late seventh century...but apparently "god's chosen" have the authority to invoke an absentee land-claim that spans 13 centuries--what a curious novelty indeed
> LOL



The "right to exist" claim is simply the response to those who insist that Israel has "no right to exist." 
As for your claim that of some "native Palestinian right to exist on lands they have occupied in vast majority since the late seventh century," you must know that "refugees" registered in the years following the Arab/Israel war of 1948 were only required to have been there since 1946 (and I doubt any proof was actually required of them at all).
Like the Hashemites of Arabia who usurped 78% of the Palestine Mandated lands, most of those "refugees" had no more connection to that land than you do.


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fictive "right to exist" has no legal or historical point of reference, hence in the case of Israel, this much-bruited piece of fantasy attains a circulation completely uniformed by any factual reference....the slogan is both emblematic/symptomatic of Zionist bully-tactics...if such a bizarre right was indeed supported by an external legal authority it would equate to a denial of the native Palestinian right to exist on lands they have occupied in vast majority since the late seventh century...but apparently "god's chosen" have the authority to invoke an absentee land-claim that spans 13 centuries--what a curious novelty indeed
> LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I recommend that all Nazi types get used to the fact that Israel exists.
> Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
> "Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Minor correction imbecile: 23, 000 days of illegal occupation and still whining...still killing...still stealing...still living off American taxpayers...still deceiving themselves...still caught in an act of slow-motion suicide...
Click to expand...


----------



## JakeStarkey

Israeli force of arms plus USA backing says its has a right to exist and kick Arab ass whenever a Jew feels like it.

Tuff.


----------



## JWBooth

No more than any other state.


----------



## SAYIT

JWBooth said:


> No more than any other state.



And no less.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Of course existing inside someone else's borders on someone else's land puts Israel in a rather precarious position.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Of course existing inside someone else's borders on someone else's land puts Israel in a rather precarious position.


It do? How?


----------



## Ernie S.

P F Tinmore said:


> Of course existing inside someone else's borders on someone else's land puts Israel in a rather precarious position.



Must check my maps.... Sorry, PF you're STILL wrong.


----------



## P F Tinmore

In the Armistice Agreements, the ceasefire lines are defined as follows:

    5(2). In no sense are the cease-fire lines to be interpreted as political or territorial borders and their delineation in no way affects the rights, demands or positions of any of the parties to the cease-fire agreements regarding the final disposition of the Palestine question.







http://208.84.118.121/pf_1948to1967_land_1948.php


----------



## Sundowner47

toastman said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> While this new poster has been LOLing at a lot of things, I have to LOL with his words "shameless immorality."  It appears that he and the other Jew haters conveniently overlook the real shameless immorality of the Muslims murdering people in the name of their religion, even when it comes down to their murdering each other of different sect.  This is the genuine shameless immorality. Meanwhile, I do believe a Jewish homeland was planned even before World War II and the Holocaust.  Such a scholar as Sundowner might like to check into this.
> 
> 
> 
> jt2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Housefly....you seem to spin on the Zionist response template...beyond this rudimentary teaching-aid you have zero ability to think...reason...decipher...in short all the values that meet the criteria for critical intelligence...The Israeli/Palestinians conflict has nothing to do with issues of Islam---scurrilous Jews merely exploit the fashionable post-9/11 anti-Muslim attitudes as a cover for their torture chamber...and yes stupid--there was a Jewish homeland panned before WW2---it was planned by the vile Zionists, who promptly exploited the Holocaust as a means to an end...the moral depravity speaks clearly
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exploited the Holocaust? Now I know you're incompetent and uneducated.
> It's like you're trying to write your own version oh history.
> 
> The Jewish people will never leave from Israel. It will always be their homeland.
> No matter how many times they are attacked, they will survive.
> No matter how much is destroyed, they will always rebuild it.
> 
> No matter how many threats, Israel will stand strong.
> 
> These radical Muslim extremists that run countries like Iran and Syria have no value for human life, while Israel actually cares about its people. Soon, the middle east revolution will reach Iran. Their demise is not too far away.
Click to expand...


Simpleton...try to pay attention to the details...I confess that I genuinely adore the howl of being called "uneducated" by the likes of some drone liar, an individual so demonstrably stupid that they fail to discern fact from fiction. Even the most resolute Zionist cultists are well-aware of the shameless exploitation of the holocaust as an ironic justification for what Israelis routinely do to the native population. Even the undigested pig Netanyahu invoked the holocaust before shamelessly  the UN when the U.S. administration was browbeat into rejecting the Palestinian appeal for statehood recently...you have no faint idea of what is being discussed here...you are merely a mindless echo-chamber for Zionist lies


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> In the Armistice Agreements, the ceasefire lines are defined as follows:
> 
> 5(2). In no sense are the cease-fire lines to be interpreted as political or territorial borders and their delineation in no way affects the rights, demands or positions of any of the parties to the cease-fire agreements regarding the final disposition of the Palestine question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's Borders After 1948 War


Where's Palestine in this map? 10 miles west of Gaza?


----------



## Sundowner47

The funniest aspect of the much-bruited Jewish appeal that Israel retains some mysterious "right to exist" is that this often invoked right does not exist itself...Jews merely invented this nonsense in the same obscene spirit in which such other monumentally laughable slogans as "a land without people for the people without land" and of course the awe-inspiring "world's most moral army" and "purity of arms" derived...these are hucksters, and liars of a character that harkens back to Goebbells in his heyday




Since the 1970s, Israels leaders have insisted that their Palestinian interlocutors acknowledge Israels right to exist as a pre-condition for negotiations on a settlement of the conflict.

Amongst other concessions, the governments of Israel and the United States insist that Hamas makes precisely this declaration before being allowed to join Fatah in direct talks with their Israeli counterparts.

The problem with such a demand is that no such abstract right to exist can be found in international law or in any serious theory of international relations.

To put it succinctly, a right to exist does not exist for states. Nor does such a right exist in practice. Australia, for example, does not recognise Israels right to exist. Nor do any other states.

Peoples right to live in peace

The right for a state to exist should not be confused or conflated with either the right to self-determination or diplomatic recognition.

The first is a right invested in people, usually nations, who want to be governed in common as an independent or sovereign political community.

The latter is simply a political and legal convenience of international society.

Nor should Israels right to exist be confused with its peoples right to live in peace within secure and recognised boundaries, the wording of United Nations Security Council Resolution 242.

This right exists for all peoples regardless of their geographic location: for Israelis and Palestinians equally. Not for states.


----------



## irosie91

gobbly gook-----the  "right to exist"  is simply a demand that islamo nazi pigs stop teaching their children and their goons that it is right and  the  "WILL OF THEIR 'god'"   to slit the throats of israeli babies  to entern such filth as YOU


----------



## Hossfly

Sundowner47 said:


> The funniest aspect of the much-bruited Jewish appeal that Israel retains some mysterious "right to exist" is that this often invoked right does not exist itself...Jews merely invented this nonsense in the same obscene spirit in which such other monumentally laughable slogans as "a land without people for the people without land" and of course the awe-inspiring "world's most moral army" and "purity of arms" derived...these are hucksters, and liars of a character that harkens back to Goebbells in his heyday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since the 1970s, Israels leaders have insisted that their Palestinian interlocutors acknowledge Israels right to exist as a pre-condition for negotiations on a settlement of the conflict.
> 
> Amongst other concessions, the governments of Israel and the United States insist that Hamas makes precisely this declaration before being allowed to join Fatah in direct talks with their Israeli counterparts.
> 
> The problem with such a demand is that no such abstract right to exist can be found in international law or in any serious theory of international relations.
> 
> To put it succinctly, a right to exist does not exist for states. Nor does such a right exist in practice. Australia, for example, does not recognise Israels right to exist. Nor do any other states.
> 
> Peoples right to live in peace
> 
> The right for a state to exist should not be confused or conflated with either the right to self-determination or diplomatic recognition.
> 
> The first is a right invested in people, usually nations, who want to be governed in common as an independent or sovereign political community.
> 
> The latter is simply a political and legal convenience of international society.
> 
> Nor should Israels right to exist be confused with its peoples right to live in peace within secure and recognised boundaries, the wording of United Nations Security Council Resolution 242.
> 
> This right exists for all peoples regardless of their geographic location: for Israelis and Palestinians equally. Not for states.


Israel demanded of the Palisimians the right of recognition, not the 'right to exist', Sir Blivet of Stormfront.


----------



## irosie91

Sundowner47 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Housefly....you seem to spin on the Zionist response template...beyond this rudimentary teaching-aid you have zero ability to think...reason...decipher...in short all the values that meet the criteria for critical intelligence...The Israeli/Palestinians conflict has nothing to do with issues of Islam---scurrilous Jews merely exploit the fashionable post-9/11 anti-Muslim attitudes as a cover for their torture chamber...and yes stupid--there was a Jewish homeland panned before WW2---it was planned by the vile Zionists, who promptly exploited the Holocaust as a means to an end...the moral depravity speaks clearly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exploited the Holocaust? Now I know you're incompetent and uneducated.
> It's like you're trying to write your own version oh history.
> The Jewish people will never leave from Israel. It will always be their homeland.
> No matter how many times they are attacked, they will survive.
> No matter how much is destroyed, they will always rebuild it.
> 
> No matter how many threats, Israel will stand strong.
> 
> These radical Muslim extremists that run countries like Iran and Syria have no value for human life, while Israel actually cares about its people. Soon, the middle east revolution will reach Iran. Their demise is not too far away.[/QUOTE
> Simpleton...try to pay attention to the details...I confess that I genuinely adore the howl of being called "uneducated" by the likes of some drone liar, an individual so demonstrably stupid that they fail to discern fact from fiction. Even the most resolute Zionist cultists are well-aware of the shameless exploitation of the holocaust as an ironic justification for what Israelis routinely do to the native population. Even the undigested pig Netanyahu invoked the holocaust before shamelessly  the UN when the U.S. administration was browbeat into rejecting the Palestinian appeal for statehood recently...you have no faint idea of what is being discussed here...you are merely a mindless echo-chamber for Zionist lies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner ---I know you well ----every time a muslim slut screams  "allahuakbar" and blows her over used stinking ass to hell for her "god"   you have an episode of intenst self gratification       and just the thought of millions of babies with slit throats for the honor of your "nabi"      fill you with  intenst "pleasure"
Click to expand...


----------



## Politico

They have lots of things to back their right to exist. They go boom, bang and blam.


----------



## Sundowner47

irosie91 said:


> gobbly gook-----the  "right to exist"  is simply a demand that islamo nazi pigs stop teaching their children and their goons that it is right and  the  "WILL OF THEIR 'god'"   to slit the throats of israeli babies  to entern such filth as YOU




No apparent change-up in the nonsensical responses...suffice to say that 'right to exist" is Zio-BS....AS FOR KILLING BABIES...SHALL WE EXAMINE THE STATS?  ONLY RECENTLY THE RESOURCEFUL IDF KILLED 400 ARAB CHILDREN IN CAST-LEAD...NATURALLY THEY WERE ALL "TERRORISTS"...LOL


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both tinny and sherri   continue to INSIST  that jews have no right to buy or own land        Both Sherri and tinny continue to insist that if a MUSLIM is born in any land     then muslims OWN that land simply for being born there but jews who have lived in specific lands for thousands of years have NO RIGHTS OF OWNERSHIP and both tinny and sherri  insist that muslims have the right to rape and murder   christians, jews and hindus  and enslave their children     Sherri----in particular ----supports the idea that muslims have a right to enslave and bugger Jesus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Nonsense.*
> 
> Palestinian Christians and Jew can and do own land, homes, and businesses in Palestine.
Click to expand...


what are you calling  "palestine"     according to the legal code you advocate-----jews cannot buy land in  what muslims call palestine      Why do you lie?     it is your "religion"???     My own husband was born in a sharish shit hole-----you are a disgusting liar.    Oh   I forgot ----jesus told you that he believes that muslims have a right to slit the throats of jewish babies and rape jewish and christian women


----------



## irosie91

Sundowner47 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> gobbly gook-----the  "right to exist"  is simply a demand that islamo nazi pigs stop teaching their children and their goons that it is right and  the  "WILL OF THEIR 'god'"   to slit the throats of israeli babies  to entern such filth as YOU
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No apparent change-up in the nonsensical responses...suffice to say that 'right to exist" is Zio-BS....AS FOR KILLING BABIES...SHALL WE EXAMINE THE STATS?  ONLY RECENTLY THE RESOURCEFUL IDF KILLED 400 ARAB CHILDREN IN CAST-LEAD...NATURALLY THEY WERE ALL "TERRORISTS"...LOL
Click to expand...




no    they were SHIELDS for your fave  mujahadeen      keep in mind -----your pals are killig thousands of muslim babies---whilst screaming  "allahuakbar"  to entertain their sluts       The pigs have shelters  -------scores of tunnels under gaza but the slut mothers  PREFER to donate their babies to the   "god"  of the rapist pig


----------



## Hossfly

irosie91 said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exploited the Holocaust? Now I know you're incompetent and uneducated.
> It's like you're trying to write your own version oh history.
> The Jewish people will never leave from Israel. It will always be their homeland.
> No matter how many times they are attacked, they will survive.
> No matter how much is destroyed, they will always rebuild it.
> 
> No matter how many threats, Israel will stand strong.
> 
> These radical Muslim extremists that run countries like Iran and Syria have no value for human life, while Israel actually cares about its people. Soon, the middle east revolution will reach Iran. Their demise is not too far away.[/QUOTE
> Simpleton...try to pay attention to the details...I confess that I genuinely adore the howl of being called "uneducated" by the likes of some drone liar, an individual so demonstrably stupid that they fail to discern fact from fiction. Even the most resolute Zionist cultists are well-aware of the shameless exploitation of the holocaust as an ironic justification for what Israelis routinely do to the native population. Even the undigested pig Netanyahu invoked the holocaust before shamelessly  the UN when the U.S. administration was browbeat into rejecting the Palestinian appeal for statehood recently...you have no faint idea of what is being discussed here...you are merely a mindless echo-chamber for Zionist lies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner ---I know you well ----every time a muslim slut screams  "allahuakbar" and blows her over used stinking ass to hell for her "god"   you have an episode of intenst self gratification       and just the thought of millions of babies with slit throats for the honor of your "nabi"      fill you with  intenst "pleasure"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course we know him well.  We have been reading nonsense from many other posters for years with the same anti-Semitic/anti-Israel mind set as he has.  Let him blabber on like he knows it all, and we will just have a good chuckle.  Taking a page from his book, he is only a mindless echo chamber for Muslim lies.
> 
> 
> 
> jt2
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the Armistice Agreements, the ceasefire lines are defined as follows:
> 
> 5(2). In no sense are the cease-fire lines to be interpreted as political or territorial borders and their delineation in no way affects the rights, demands or positions of any of the parties to the cease-fire agreements regarding the final disposition of the Palestine question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's Borders After 1948 War
> 
> 
> 
> Where's Palestine in this map? 10 miles west of Gaza?
Click to expand...




> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions as surveyed in March 1949 by United Nations observers,...
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949



How about just west of Jordan?


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the Armistice Agreements, the ceasefire lines are defined as follows:
> 
> 5(2). In no sense are the cease-fire lines to be interpreted as political or territorial borders and their delineation in no way affects the rights, demands or positions of any of the parties to the cease-fire agreements regarding the final disposition of the Palestine question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's Borders After 1948 War
> 
> 
> 
> Where's Palestine in this map? 10 miles west of Gaza?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions as surveyed in March 1949 by United Nations observers,...
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How about just west of Jordan?
Click to expand...

Do you realize this is 2012 AD. No need to save your Confederate money, the South won't rise again.


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> _In the Armistice Agreements, the ceasefire lines are defined as follows: 5(2). In no sense are the cease-fire lines to be interpreted as political or territorial borders and their delineation in no way affects the rights, demands or positions of any of the parties to the cease-fire agreements regarding the final disposition of the Palestine question._


A document, to the signing of which palistanians, as a bunch, having no land and no borders and not being a people, were not, understandably, invited, of course.


----------



## docmauser1

Sundowner47 said:


> _The fictive "right to exist" has no legal or historical point of reference, hence ..._


A rather interesting postulate, confirming that palistanian "rights and wants" are a product of occupational excesses they happily indulge in, of course.


----------



## docmauser1

Sundowner47 said:


> _AS FOR KILLING BABIES...SHALL WE EXAMINE THE STATS?  ONLY RECENTLY THE RESOURCEFUL IDF KILLED 400 ARAB CHILDREN IN CAST-LEAD...NATURALLY THEY WERE ALL "TERRORISTS"...LOL_


We're most certain hamas and syndicated terrorist gangsters are still upset they couldn't get more of them killed for allah and TV cameras, of course.


----------



## Saigon

> Australia, for example, does not recognise Israel&#8217;s &#8220;right to exist&#8221;.



Um...what? 

Australia and Israel established full diplomatic relations in 1949.


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> _About the same. Israelis don't own land. They own the homes but lease the land they sit on._


From the israeli government, of course.


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _"At the time, the population of Palestine was comprised of 95% Arabs (both Christians and Muslims), 4% Palestinian Jews, and 1% expatriates. The Jews owned only 2% of the land." Lt. Col. Mohammed F. Abo-Sak_


"95% of arabs"? Out of how many? 200,000? Are we supposed to believe that bunch owned all the territory, when all the territory, excluding the rich effendi clans, was owned by the sultan of Turkey? Seriously? Abu Sak?


----------



## Hollie

Sundowner47 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> gobbly gook-----the  "right to exist"  is simply a demand that islamo nazi pigs stop teaching their children and their goons that it is right and  the  "WILL OF THEIR 'god'"   to slit the throats of israeli babies  to entern such filth as YOU
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No apparent change-up in the nonsensical responses...suffice to say that 'right to exist" is Zio-BS....AS FOR KILLING BABIES...SHALL WE EXAMINE THE STATS?  ONLY RECENTLY THE RESOURCEFUL IDF KILLED 400 ARAB CHILDREN IN CAST-LEAD...NATURALLY THEY WERE ALL "TERRORISTS"...LOL
Click to expand...


It seems your comments largely follow the same position as those of the other islamist apologists and  Joooooo haters in this thread. What that component of the thread wont acknowledge is that the fascist arab/islamic position is that all lands in the Middle East are irrevocably islamist. This attitude derives largely from the proscription of islams inventor warlord Pope/King.

Israels right to exist is the belief that the Jewish people have a right to exist in peace and dignity in their own land, a land to which Jews have a historical connection and where Jews have always lived. Moslems find this galling because their warlord Pope/King was so strident in denigrating Jews.

Im always amazed at the double standard espoused by moslems/islamic fascists who presume a right to colonize the entirety of the Middle East but deny the rights of Jews (and Christians), to their historical homelands.


----------



## irosie91

Hollie said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> gobbly gook-----the  "right to exist"  is simply a demand that islamo nazi pigs stop teaching their children and their goons that it is right and  the  "WILL OF THEIR 'god'"   to slit the throats of israeli babies  to entern such filth as YOU
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No apparent change-up in the nonsensical responses...suffice to say that 'right to exist" is Zio-BS....AS FOR KILLING BABIES...SHALL WE EXAMINE THE STATS?  ONLY RECENTLY THE RESOURCEFUL IDF KILLED 400 ARAB CHILDREN IN CAST-LEAD...NATURALLY THEY WERE ALL "TERRORISTS"...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems your comments largely follow the same position as those of the other islamist apologists and  Joooooo haters in this thread. What that component of the thread wont acknowledge is that the fascist arab/islamic position is that all lands in the Middle East are irrevocably islamist. This attitude derives largely from the proscription of islams inventor warlord Pope/King.
> 
> Israels right to exist is the belief that the Jewish people have a right to exist in peace and dignity in their own land, a land to which Jews have a historical connection and where Jews have always lived. Moslems find this galling because their warlord Pope/King was so strident in denigrating Jews
> 
> 
> Im always amazed at the double standard espoused by moslems/islamic fascists who presume a right to colonize the entirety of the Middle East but deny the rights of Jews (and Christians), to their historical homelands.
Click to expand...




    RIGHT TO EXIST----is a problem for the meccaists-----it destroys the  "BEAUTY OF ISN'TLAM"     which is RIGHT TO RAPE AND PILLAGE AND MURDER  ------where is the attraction without      RAPE-RIGHTS   for the   'believers'?


----------



## Billo_Really

irosie91 said:


> RIGHT TO EXIST----is a problem for the meccaists-----it destroys the  "BEAUTY OF ISN'TLAM"     which is RIGHT TO RAPE AND PILLAGE AND MURDER  ------where is the attraction without      RAPE-RIGHTS   for the   'believers'?


More racist garbage.


----------



## irosie91

loinboy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> RIGHT TO EXIST----is a problem for the meccaists-----it destroys the  "BEAUTY OF ISN'TLAM"     which is RIGHT TO RAPE AND PILLAGE AND MURDER  ------where is the attraction without      RAPE-RIGHTS   for the   'believers'?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More racist garbage.
Click to expand...



      actually----its not----the program for 1400 years has been  "which side do you want to be on----the side that gets raped and pillaged or the side that does the raping and pillaging"????-------it goes on today in USA jails  and it went on 1400 years ago in arabia -------and for all the time inbetween.     An interesting aspect of islamic law is INHERITANCE      In inheritance the muslim always wins.     If a wealthy non muslim father has ten sons-----and ONE of them converts to islam-----according to islamic law that one son INHERITS ALL  ---------seems like something of an "attraction"  to me.   I did not invent shariah.    Its barbaric ---but on the positive side----maybe someday they will FIX IT


----------



## Hollie

loinboy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> RIGHT TO EXIST----is a problem for the meccaists-----it destroys the  "BEAUTY OF ISN'TLAM"     which is RIGHT TO RAPE AND PILLAGE AND MURDER  ------where is the attraction without      RAPE-RIGHTS   for the   'believers'?
> 
> 
> 
> More racist garbage.
Click to expand...


Are meccaists really a "race"?


----------



## irosie91

Hollie said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> RIGHT TO EXIST----is a problem for the meccaists-----it destroys the  "BEAUTY OF ISN'TLAM"     which is RIGHT TO RAPE AND PILLAGE AND MURDER  ------where is the attraction without      RAPE-RIGHTS   for the   'believers'?
> 
> 
> 
> More racist garbage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are meccaists really a "race"?
Click to expand...


no---its a creed to which jailed people who want to blow up buildings eagerly convert
Anyone interested in the creed----read the koran-----early joiners joined for the opportunity to join the leader in pillage and rape which was the way to convey    the  "gospel of jannah"   to the world


----------



## Billo_Really

irosie91 said:


> actually----its not----the program for 1400 years has been  "which side do you want to be on----the side that gets raped and pillaged or the side that does the raping and pillaging"????-------it goes on today in USA jails  and it went on 1400 years ago in arabia -------and for all the time inbetween.     An interesting aspect of islamic law is INHERITANCE      In inheritance the muslim always wins.     If a wealthy non muslim father has ten sons-----and ONE of them converts to islam-----according to islamic law that one son INHERITS ALL  ---------seems like something of an "attraction"  to me.   I did not invent shariah.    Its barbaric ---but on the positive side----maybe someday they will FIX IT


This has nothing to do with sides.


----------



## irosie91

loinboy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> actually----its not----the program for 1400 years has been  "which side do you want to be on----the side that gets raped and pillaged or the side that does the raping and pillaging"????-------it goes on today in USA jails  and it went on 1400 years ago in arabia -------and for all the time inbetween.     An interesting aspect of islamic law is INHERITANCE      In inheritance the muslim always wins.     If a wealthy non muslim father has ten sons-----and ONE of them converts to islam-----according to islamic law that one son INHERITS ALL  ---------seems like something of an "attraction"  to me.   I did not invent shariah.    Its barbaric ---but on the positive side----maybe someday they will FIX IT
> 
> 
> 
> This has nothing to do with sides.
Click to expand...


It has everything to do with sides and has since the career of the rapist pig


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> The funniest aspect of the much-bruited Jewish appeal that Israel retains some mysterious "right to exist" is that this often invoked right does not exist itself...Jews merely invented this nonsense in the same obscene spirit in which such other monumentally laughable slogans as "a land without people for the people without land" and of course the awe-inspiring "world's most moral army" and "purity of arms" derived...these are hucksters, and liars of a character that harkens back to Goebbells in his heyday
> 
> Since the 1970s, Israels leaders have insisted that their Palestinian interlocutors acknowledge Israels right to exist as a pre-condition for negotiations on a settlement of the conflict.
> 
> Amongst other concessions, the governments of Israel and the United States insist that Hamas makes precisely this declaration before being allowed to join Fatah in direct talks with their Israeli counterparts.
> 
> The problem with such a demand is that no such abstract right to exist can be found in international law or in any serious theory of international relations.
> 
> To put it succinctly, a right to exist does not exist for states. Nor does such a right exist in practice. Australia, for example, does not recognise Israels right to exist. Nor do any other states.
> 
> Peoples right to live in peace
> 
> The right for a state to exist should not be confused or conflated with either the right to self-determination or diplomatic recognition.
> 
> The first is a right invested in people, usually nations, who want to be governed in common as an independent or sovereign political community.
> 
> The latter is simply a political and legal convenience of international society.
> 
> Nor should Israels right to exist be confused with its peoples right to live in peace within secure and recognised boundaries, the wording of United Nations Security Council Resolution 242.
> 
> This right exists for all peoples regardless of their geographic location: for Israelis and Palestinians equally. Not for states.



Fine. 
For the sake of argument we will agree that there is no such thing as a state's right to exist.
As things now stand the "Palestinians" have suffered through 64 years of wandering in the desert.
Would you have them do another 64 years of penance or say the words "Israel has a right to exist?" Hell, they don't have to mean it and they don't have to live by it. All they have to do is say the words and the peace process - such that it is - can move forward. 
Isn't that worth a shot at peace?


----------



## irosie91

"RIGHT TO EXIST"    destroys  the  BEAUTY OF ISLAM   which has the   RIGHT TO RENDER NON EXISTENT     as it did in reference to the civilized and literate  populations of arabia  1400 years ago and to much of the evidence of the cultures of the world as the magnificent Buddhist art in Afghanistan


----------



## irosie91

docmauser1 said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The fictive "right to exist" has no legal or historical point of reference, hence ..._
> 
> 
> 
> A rather interesting postulate, confirming that palistanian "rights and wants" are a product of occupational excesses they happily indulge in, of course.
Click to expand...



the "right to exist"   is recognized only by humans in human societies -----apes to and crustaceans-----do not consider the "rights"   of other apes and crustaceans


----------



## Hossfly

irosie91 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> actually----its not----the program for 1400 years has been  "which side do you want to be on----the side that gets raped and pillaged or the side that does the raping and pillaging"????-------it goes on today in USA jails  and it went on 1400 years ago in arabia -------and for all the time inbetween.     An interesting aspect of islamic law is INHERITANCE      In inheritance the muslim always wins.     If a wealthy non muslim father has ten sons-----and ONE of them converts to islam-----according to islamic law that one son INHERITS ALL  ---------seems like something of an "attraction"  to me.   I did not invent shariah.    Its barbaric ---but on the positive side----maybe someday they will FIX IT
> 
> 
> 
> This has nothing to do with sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has everything to do with sides and has since the career of the rapist pig
Click to expand...

"Rapist pig" is a little strong. Wouldn't "Mohammed, A Connoisseur of Amorous Encounters" be a little more PC?


----------



## irosie91

Hossfly said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> This has nothing to do with sides.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has everything to do with sides and has since the career of the rapist pig
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Rapist pig" is a little strong. Wouldn't "Mohammed, A Connoisseur of Amorous Encounters" be a little more PC?
Click to expand...



   how about     A HOLY SPIRITUAL ENCOUNTER OF THE FORCED KIND?


----------



## Saigon

irosie91 said:


> RIGHT TO EXIST----is a problem for the meccaists-----it destroys the  "BEAUTY OF ISN'TLAM"     which is RIGHT TO RAPE AND PILLAGE AND MURDER  ------where is the attraction without      RAPE-RIGHTS   for the   'believers'?



I totally agree with Loinby here - this kind of posting just strikes me as racist. 

Given the number of children raped under the auspices of Catholocism the past hundred years, Christians are not in a very good position to accuse any other church of rape.


----------



## Hossfly

Saigon said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> RIGHT TO EXIST----is a problem for the meccaists-----it destroys the  "BEAUTY OF ISN'TLAM"     which is RIGHT TO RAPE AND PILLAGE AND MURDER  ------where is the attraction without      RAPE-RIGHTS   for the   'believers'?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I totally agree with Loinby here - this kind of posting just strikes me as racist.
> 
> Given the number of children raped under the auspices of Catholocism the past hundred years, Christians are not in a very good position to accuse any other church of rape.
Click to expand...

What is it that makes terrorist lovers excuse atrocities of moohatma's choirboys by comparing Catholics/Christians to the rabid animals? Guilt?


----------



## Saigon

Hossfly -

What is it that makes racists accuse anyone who disagrees with them of supporting terror?


----------



## georgephillip

irosie91 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has everything to do with sides and has since the career of the rapist pig
> 
> 
> 
> "Rapist pig" is a little strong. Wouldn't "Mohammed, A Connoisseur of Amorous Encounters" be a little more PC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> how about     A HOLY SPIRITUAL ENCOUNTER OF THE FORCED KIND?
Click to expand...

*How about Kosher Baby Killer Gets 45 Holy Days:*

"An Israeli soldier accused of killing a mother and daughter carrying a white flag in Gaza during Israel's 2009 'Operation Cast Lead' has received a sentence of only 45 days following a plea deal approved by a military court on Sunday.

"Rayah Abu Hajaj (in this family photo) and her daughter Majedah were shot while walking with a group of Palestinians holding white flags after their home was bombed during Israel's 'Operation Cast Lead' in the Gaza Strip in 2009. 

"The charges against the soldier -- known only in court documents and the Israeli media as 'staff sergeant S'..."

I wonder if that's staff sergeant Sieg heil?
Another relative of rosie's.

Israeli Sniper Gets Only 45 Days for Killing of Two Women under White Flags | Common Dreams


----------



## Hossfly

Saigon said:


> Hossfly -
> 
> What is it that makes racists accuse anyone who disagrees with them of supporting terror?


Ask yourself that stupid, rhetorical question. Blimey!


----------



## Hollie

Saigon said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> RIGHT TO EXIST----is a problem for the meccaists-----it destroys the  "BEAUTY OF ISN'TLAM"     which is RIGHT TO RAPE AND PILLAGE AND MURDER  ------where is the attraction without      RAPE-RIGHTS   for the   'believers'?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I totally agree with Loinby here - this kind of posting just strikes me as racist.
> 
> Given the number of children raped under the auspices of Catholocism the past hundred years, Christians are not in a very good position to accuse any other church of rape.
Click to expand...


It seems silly to use terms (racist), that are completely inconsistent given the context.

If you really want to be outraged about something, do a search relative to the "Dancing boys of Afghanistan".


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Rapist pig" is a little strong. Wouldn't "Mohammed, A Connoisseur of Amorous Encounters" be a little more PC?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how about     A HOLY SPIRITUAL ENCOUNTER OF THE FORCED KIND?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *How about Kosher Baby Killer Gets 45 Holy Days:*
> 
> "An Israeli soldier accused of killing a mother and daughter carrying a white flag in Gaza during Israel's 2009 'Operation Cast Lead' has received a sentence of only 45 days following a plea deal approved by a military court on Sunday.
> 
> "Rayah Abu Hajaj (in this family photo) and her daughter Majedah were shot while walking with a group of Palestinians holding white flags after their home was bombed during Israel's 'Operation Cast Lead' in the Gaza Strip in 2009.
> 
> "The charges against the soldier -- known only in court documents and the Israeli media as 'staff sergeant S'..."
> 
> I wonder if that's staff sergeant Sieg heil?
> Another relative of rosie's.
> 
> Israeli Sniper Gets Only 45 Days for Killing of Two Women under White Flags | Common Dreams
Click to expand...

FYI, Georgie, that soldier has suffered cruel and unusual punishment. IMO.


----------



## Saigon

Hollie said:


> It seems silly to use terms (racist), that are completely inconsistent given the context.
> 
> .



I think the constant - and I mean constant - reference to all Muslims as being rapists, paedophiles and zoophiliacs is consistent with every definition of racism I've ever seen.


----------



## Hossfly

Saigon said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems silly to use terms (racist), that are completely inconsistent given the context.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the constant - and I mean constant - reference to all Muslims as being rapists, paedophiles and zoophiliacs is consistent with every definition of racism I've ever seen.
Click to expand...

If they don't do it or participate, they seem to condone it. Or ignore it.


----------



## Saigon

Hoss - 

And when I start to see references to Catholics using the same terms, I'll understand that the posters are not simply racist.


----------



## Hossfly

Saigon said:


> Hoss -
> 
> And when I start to see references to Catholics using the same terms, I'll understand that the posters are not simply racist.


Do Catholics abuse camels? Or sheep? Hmmmm?


----------



## Sundowner47

docmauser1 said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The fictive "right to exist" has no legal or historical point of reference, hence ..._
> 
> 
> 
> A rather interesting postulate, confirming that palistanian "rights and wants" are a product of occupational excesses they happily indulge in, of course.
Click to expand...


Incorrect stupid...please allow me to explain the difference---and not to worry, I'll use small words so as to avoid confusion on your part: The Arab Palestinians have resided on these lands for 13 centuries, the Ashkenazi trash for a little more than sixty years of criminal occupation....under normal circumstances determining which party has residency rights shouldn't be much of a stretch, but the Jews are a pack of committed liars and thieves who believe they can also occupy critical history...hope this helps simpleton


----------



## Hossfly

Sundowner47 said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The fictive "right to exist" has no legal or historical point of reference, hence ..._
> 
> 
> 
> A rather interesting postulate, confirming that palistanian "rights and wants" are a product of occupational excesses they happily indulge in, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Incorrect stupid...please allow me to explain the difference---and not to worry, I'll use small words so as to avoid confusion on your part: The Arab Palestinians have resided on these lands for 13 centuries, the Ashkenazi trash for a little more than sixty years of criminal occupation....under normal circumstances determining which party has residency rights shouldn't be much of a stretch, but the Jews are a pack of committed liars and thieves who believe they can also occupy critical history...hope this helps simpleton
Click to expand...

I can't speak for Doc but I am inclined to wonder if you have the right to exist. After all, I can't see where you have contributed anything positive except for being a one man fertilizer factory.


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The fictive "right to exist" has no legal or historical point of reference, hence ..._
> 
> 
> 
> A rather interesting postulate, confirming that palistanian "rights and wants" are a product of occupational excesses they happily indulge in, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Incorrect stupid...please allow me to explain the difference---and not to worry, I'll use small words so as to avoid confusion on your part: The Arab Palestinians have resided on these lands for 13 centuries...
Click to expand...


Some perhaps, yet the powers that be, in their infinite wisdom, required only 2 years of residency - and I suspect they required little, if any, proof - to qualify for "refugee" status.
The temptation for potential "refugees" to cash in on "three hots and a cot" and the relief agency's desire to justify their existence and their budget, I'd say provides ample opportunity and motivation for fraud.


----------



## docmauser1

Sundowner47 said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The fictive "right to exist" has no legal or historical point of reference, hence ..._
> 
> 
> 
> A rather interesting postulate, confirming that palistanian "rights and wants" are a product of occupational excesses they happily indulge in, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _The Arab Palestinians have resided on these lands for 13 centuries, the Ashkenazi trash for a little more than sixty years of criminal occupation....under normal circumstances determining which party has residency rights shouldn't be much of a stretch, but the Jews are a pack of committed liars and thieves who believe they can also occupy critical history...hope this helps simpleton_
Click to expand...

Oh, bog off. In memorable words of Winnie Churchill "So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the jewish population."


----------



## Sundowner47

SAYIT said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> A rather interesting postulate, confirming that palistanian "rights and wants" are a product of occupational excesses they happily indulge in, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect stupid...please allow me to explain the difference---and not to worry, I'll use small words so as to avoid confusion on your part: The Arab Palestinians have resided on these lands for 13 centuries...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some perhaps, yet the powers that be, in their infinite wisdom, required only 2 years of residency - and I suspect they required little, if any, proof - to qualify for "refugee" status.
> The temptation for potential "refugees" to cash in on "three hots and a cot" and the relief agency's desire to justify their existence and their budget, I'd say provides ample opportunity and motivation for fraud.
Click to expand...


"Fraud" you say? Dare you overlook the most spectacular fraud of the twentieth century---the modern state of Israel?  The vast majority of the native population were born there, easily confirmed in the predictable birth-rates from the period of the Ottoman transfer to the British takeover. But if you really want to talk "fraud" let's examine Israel's "right of return" that applies to Jews who've never set foot in Palestine, yet are accorded superior rights over the native population...let's address the welfare status of Israel...the artificial economy kept afloat by massive---and vastly under-reported subsidies...Israelis virtually invented fraud...


----------



## irosie91

from  "sundowner"   the islamo nazi lump of excrement
 Incorrect stupid...please allow me to explain the difference---and not to worry, I'll use small words so as to avoid confusion on your part: The Arab Palestinians have resided on these lands for 13 centuries, the Ashkenazi trash for a little more than sixty years of criminal occupation....under normal circumstances determining which party has residency rights shouldn't be much of a stretch, but the Jews are a pack of committed liars and thieves who believe they can also occupy critical history...hope this helps simpleton

     I am always fascinated with lumps of islamo nazi pig excrement trash use the word  "ASHKENAZI"      it gives them away for the lying thieving dogs that they are.    The word  ASHKENAZI   is a hebrew word-----hebrew being the ONLY EXTANT LANGUAGE that developed in the land mass called "palestine" or even CANAAN     The word itself refers to ANOTHER LAND MASS-----so named in ancient times long before the birth of the rapist pig of arabia and long before the dogs of arabia emerged from the filthy tents in the arabian desert to rape and pillage their way thru half the world.    The land mass is  ASHKENAZ----which vaguely includes the rhine valley and the sorround----most of europe.    The word  ASHKENAZI refers to a person who has sojourned in ASHKENAZ   in the same way that the word  SEPHARDI  means a person who has sojourned in SAFRAD---approximately the IBERIAN PENNINSULA    Thus an ASHKENAZI is a person who derives from   the place where hebrew developed and is  so called because he was GONE FOR AWHILE  to the land of Ashkenaz     The islamo nazi dogs have no idea that when they use the word  ASHKENAZI to describe jews-----they are admitting that they are describing people who originated in PALESTINE         islamo nazis are that stupid.    For the record-----arabic was developed in arabia and stayed in arabia until the dogs emerged from the disease ridden tents to EMULATE AL NABI    by raping and murdering and enslaving and pillaging  -------and comitting genocide in the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS.....and counting


----------



## Sundowner47

Hossfly said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> A rather interesting postulate, confirming that palistanian "rights and wants" are a product of occupational excesses they happily indulge in, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect stupid...please allow me to explain the difference---and not to worry, I'll use small words so as to avoid confusion on your part: The Arab Palestinians have resided on these lands for 13 centuries, the Ashkenazi trash for a little more than sixty years of criminal occupation....under normal circumstances determining which party has residency rights shouldn't be much of a stretch, but the Jews are a pack of committed liars and thieves who believe they can also occupy critical history...hope this helps simpleton
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can't speak for Doc but I am inclined to wonder if you have the right to exist. After all, I can't see where you have contributed anything positive except for being a one man fertilizer factory.
Click to expand...


"anything positive" you say?  This assumes that routinely circulating lies about Israel is axiomatically "positive" and not the mark of an immoral individual...


----------



## ima

Hossfly said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hoss -
> 
> And when I start to see references to Catholics using the same terms, I'll understand that the posters are not simply racist.
> 
> 
> 
> Do Catholics abuse camels? Or sheep? Hmmmm?
Click to expand...


Just little boys.


----------



## Sundowner47

irosie91 said:


> from  "sundowner"   the islamo nazi lump of excrement
> Incorrect stupid...please allow me to explain the difference---and not to worry, I'll use small words so as to avoid confusion on your part: The Arab Palestinians have resided on these lands for 13 centuries, the Ashkenazi trash for a little more than sixty years of criminal occupation....under normal circumstances determining which party has residency rights shouldn't be much of a stretch, but the Jews are a pack of committed liars and thieves who believe they can also occupy critical history...hope this helps simpleton
> 
> I am always fascinated with lumps of islamo nazi pig excrement trash use the word  "ASHKENAZI"      it gives them away for the lying thieving dogs that they are.    The word  ASHKENAZI   is a hebrew word-----hebrew being the ONLY EXTANT LANGUAGE that developed in the land mass called "palestine" or even CANAAN     The word itself refers to ANOTHER LAND MASS-----so named in ancient times long before the birth of the rapist pig of arabia and long before the dogs of arabia emerged from the filthy tents in the arabian desert to rape and pillage their way thru half the world.    The land mass is  ASHKENAZ----which vaguely includes the rhine valley and the sorround----most of europe.    The word  ASHKENAZI refers to a person who has sojourned in ASHKENAZ   in the same way that the word  SEPHARDI  means a person who has sojourned in SAFRAD---approximately the IBERIAN PENNINSULA    Thus an ASHKENAZI is a person who derives from   the place where hebrew developed and is  so called because he was GONE FOR AWHILE  to the land of Ashkenaz     The islamo nazi dogs have no idea that when they use the word  ASHKENAZI to describe jews-----they are admitting that they are describing people who originated in PALESTINE         islamo nazis are that stupid.    For the record-----arabic was developed in arabia and stayed in arabia until the dogs emerged from the disease ridden tents to EMULATE AL NABI    by raping and murdering and enslaving and pillaging  -------and comitting genocide in the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS.....and counting




Fortunately in your particular case, a formal argument is superfluous...merely reading the bitterness and sewage that spills from your tortured brain seems to say much, much more....


----------



## irosie91

Sundowner47 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> from  "sundowner"   the islamo nazi lump of excrement
> Incorrect stupid...please allow me to explain the difference---and not to worry, I'll use small words so as to avoid confusion on your part: The Arab Palestinians have resided on these lands for 13 centuries, the Ashkenazi trash for a little more than sixty years of criminal occupation....under normal circumstances determining which party has residency rights shouldn't be much of a stretch, but the Jews are a pack of committed liars and thieves who believe they can also occupy critical history...hope this helps simpleton
> 
> I am always fascinated with lumps of islamo nazi pig excrement trash use the word  "ASHKENAZI"      it gives them away for the lying thieving dogs that they are.    The word  ASHKENAZI   is a hebrew word-----hebrew being the ONLY EXTANT LANGUAGE that developed in the land mass called "palestine" or even CANAAN     The word itself refers to ANOTHER LAND MASS-----so named in ancient times long before the birth of the rapist pig of arabia and long before the dogs of arabia emerged from the filthy tents in
> the arabian desert to rape and pillage their way thru half the world.    The land mass is  ASHKENAZ----which vaguely includes the rhine valley and the sorround----most of europe.    The word  ASHKENAZI refers to a person who has sojourned in ASHKENAZ   in the same way that the word  SEPHARDI  means a person who has sojourned in SAFRAD---approximately the IBERIAN PENNINSULA    Thus an ASHKENAZI is a person who derives from   the place where hebrew developed and is  so called because he was GONE FOR AWHILE  to the land of Ashkenaz     The islamo nazi dogs have no idea that when they use the word  ASHKENAZI to describe jews-----they are admitting that they are describing people who originated in PALESTINE         islamo nazis are that stupid.    For the record-----arabic was developed in arabia and stayed in arabia until the dogs emerged from the disease ridden tents to EMULATE AL NABI    by raping and murdering and enslaving and pillaging  -------and comitting genocide in the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS.....and counting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fortunately in your particular case, a formal argument is superfluous...merely reading the bitterness and sewage that spills from your tortured brain seems to say much, much more....
Click to expand...



a  REALLY  pathetic deflection   -----but thanks anyway for your use of the ANCIENT HEBREW WORD     which describes    Jews from Israel/Judea who have sojourned in   ASHKENAZ         Did you know that at one time there was a very important Yeshiva in the rhine valley area ------it was there that the famous  RASHI  (of France) studied.   He lived about the time that the dogs of arabia had invaded Southern France----he was as SEPHARDI   having sojouned most of his life in France----but he did encounter  ASHKENAZIS   in the rhine valley Yeshiva      His writings are very important and---actually had an influence on some French philosophers


----------



## docmauser1

Sundowner47 said:


> _Fortunately in your particular case, a formal argument is superfluous...merely reading the bitterness and sewage that spills from your tortured brain seems to say much, much more..._


Bog off.


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect stupid...please allow me to explain the difference---and not to worry, I'll use small words so as to avoid confusion on your part: The Arab Palestinians have resided on these lands for 13 centuries...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some perhaps, yet the powers that be, in their infinite wisdom, required only 2 years of residency - and I suspect they required little, if any, proof - to qualify for "refugee" status.
> The temptation for potential "refugees" to cash in on "three hots and a cot" and the relief agency's desire to justify their existence and their budget, I'd say provides ample opportunity and motivation for fraud.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Fraud" you say? Dare you overlook the most spectacular fraud of the twentieth century---the modern state of Israel?  The vast majority of the native population were born there, easily confirmed in the predictable birth-rates from the period of the Ottoman transfer to the British takeover. But if you really want to talk "fraud" let's examine Israel's "right of return" that applies to Jews who've never set foot in Palestine, yet are accorded superior rights over the native population...let's address the welfare status of Israel...the artificial economy kept afloat by massive---and vastly under-reported subsidies...Israelis virtually invented fraud...
Click to expand...


Blah, blah, blah. 
Your rant only serves to prove that you know your defense of your "13 century" claim is lame.
Rather than try to deflect the conversation, let's just keep it on point:
the irrefutable fact that only 2 years of residency was required - and perhaps little, if any, proof - to qualify for "refugee" status.
The temptation for potential "refugees" to cash in on "three hots and a cot" and the relief agency's desire to justify their existence and their budget provided ample opportunity and motivation for fraud. In fact, I'm confident that those who lived in the area, say Southern Syria or Jordan or Egypt, signed up just to create inflated facts-on-the-ground.


----------



## Lipush

Sundowner47 said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The fictive "right to exist" has no legal or historical point of reference, hence ..._
> 
> 
> 
> A rather interesting postulate, confirming that palistanian "rights and wants" are a product of occupational excesses they happily indulge in, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Incorrect stupid...please allow me to explain the difference---and not to worry, I'll use small words so as to avoid confusion on your part: The Arab Palestinians have resided on these lands for 13 centuries, the Ashkenazi trash for a little more than sixty years of criminal occupation....under normal circumstances determining which party has residency rights shouldn't be much of a stretch, but *the Jews are a pack of committed liars and thieves who believe they can also occupy critical history*...hope this helps simpleton
Click to expand...


An arguemnt which is based on antisemitism cannot hold.


----------



## Hollie

Saigon said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems silly to use terms (racist), that are completely inconsistent given the context.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the constant - and I mean constant - reference to all Muslims as being rapists, paedophiles and zoophiliacs is consistent with every definition of racism I've ever seen.
Click to expand...


So now "Muslim" is a race?

I'd suggest you find the definition of racism and review your use of the term.


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect stupid...please allow me to explain the difference---and not to worry, I'll use small words so as to avoid confusion on your part: The Arab Palestinians have resided on these lands for 13 centuries, the Ashkenazi trash for a little more than sixty years of criminal occupation....under normal circumstances determining which party has residency rights shouldn't be much of a stretch, but the Jews are a pack of committed liars and thieves who believe they can also occupy critical history...hope this helps simpleton
> 
> 
> 
> I can't speak for Doc but I am inclined to wonder if you have the right to exist. After all, I can't see where you have contributed anything positive except for being a one man fertilizer factory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "anything positive" you say?  This assumes that routinely circulating lies about Israel is axiomatically "positive" and not the mark of an immoral individual...
Click to expand...


Indeed there is nothing positive about circulating lies about Israel and those who do so are absolutely immoral assholes.


----------



## Sundowner47

SAYIT said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some perhaps, yet the powers that be, in their infinite wisdom, required only 2 years of residency - and I suspect they required little, if any, proof - to qualify for "refugee" status.
> The temptation for potential "refugees" to cash in on "three hots and a cot" and the relief agency's desire to justify their existence and their budget, I'd say provides ample opportunity and motivation for fraud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Fraud" you say? Dare you overlook the most spectacular fraud of the twentieth century---the modern state of Israel?  The vast majority of the native population were born there, easily confirmed in the predictable birth-rates from the period of the Ottoman transfer to the British takeover. But if you really want to talk "fraud" let's examine Israel's "right of return" that applies to Jews who've never set foot in Palestine, yet are accorded superior rights over the native population...let's address the welfare status of Israel...the artificial economy kept afloat by massive---and vastly under-reported subsidies...Israelis virtually invented fraud...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Blah, blah, blah.
> Your rant only serves to prove that you know your defense of your "13 century" claim is lame.
> Rather than try to deflect the conversation, let's just keep it on point:
> the irrefutable fact that only 2 years of residency was required - and perhaps little, if any, proof - to qualify for "refugee" status.
> The temptation for potential "refugees" to cash in on "three hots and a cot" and the relief agency's desire to justify their existence and their budget provided ample opportunity and motivation for fraud. In fact, I'm confident that those who lived in the area, say Southern Syria or Jordan or Egypt, signed up just to create inflated facts-on-the-ground.
Click to expand...



LOL  the last thing your tiny, immobile mind should be focusing on is the qualifications for refugee status Mingus...were it not for the political pressure brought to bear on western leaders through the UN, this dirty little ill-gotten state would never have been accorded legitimacy or recognition...and you bark because the victims dare to seek address?


----------



## SAYIT

Lipush said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> A rather interesting postulate, confirming that palistanian "rights and wants" are a product of occupational excesses they happily indulge in, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect stupid...please allow me to explain the difference---and not to worry, I'll use small words so as to avoid confusion on your part: The Arab Palestinians have resided on these lands for 13 centuries, the Ashkenazi trash for a little more than sixty years of criminal occupation....under normal circumstances determining which party has residency rights shouldn't be much of a stretch, but *the Jews are a pack of committed liars and thieves who believe they can also occupy critical history*...hope this helps simpleton
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An argument which is based on antisemitism cannot hold.
Click to expand...


Indeed they often start out ranting about "vile Zionists" but it doesn't take 'em long to slip into their SS uniforms, click their heels, and slide into their "scurrilous jews" and "Jews are committed liars and thieves" mode.


----------



## irosie91

Sundowner47 said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Fraud" you say? Dare you overlook the most spectacular fraud of the twentieth century---the modern state of Israel?  The vast majority of the native population were born there, easily confirmed in the predictable birth-rates from the period of the Ottoman transfer to the British takeover. But if you really want to talk "fraud" let's examine Israel's "right of return" that applies to Jews who've never set foot in Palestine, yet are accorded superior rights over the native population...let's address the welfare status of Israel...the artificial economy kept afloat by massive---and vastly under-reported subsidies...Israelis virtually invented fraud...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blah, blah, blah.
> Your rant only serves to prove that you know your defense of your "13 century" claim is lame.
> Rather than try to deflect the conversation, let's just keep it on point:
> the irrefutable fact that only 2 years of residency was required - and perhaps little, if any, proof - to qualify for "refugee" status.
> The temptation for potential "refugees" to cash in on "three hots and a cot" and the relief agency's desire to justify their existence and their budget provided ample opportunity and motivation for fraud. In fact, I'm confident that those who lived in the area, say Southern Syria or Jordan or Egypt, signed up just to create inflated facts-on-the-ground.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LOL  the last thing your tiny, immobile mind should be focusing on is the qualifications for refugee status Mingus...were it not for the political pressure brought to bear on western leaders through the UN, this dirty little ill-gotten state would never have been accorded legitimacy or recognition...and you bark because the victims dare to seek address?
Click to expand...




watch your language ----it is clear you are a dirty little piece of excrement from a shit hole of infant throat slitting dogs


----------



## Hossfly

irosie91 said:


> from  "sundowner"   the islamo nazi lump of excrement
> Incorrect stupid...please allow me to explain the difference---and not to worry, I'll use small words so as to avoid confusion on your part: The Arab Palestinians have resided on these lands for 13 centuries, the Ashkenazi trash for a little more than sixty years of criminal occupation....under normal circumstances determining which party has residency rights shouldn't be much of a stretch, but the Jews are a pack of committed liars and thieves who believe they can also occupy critical history...hope this helps simpleton
> 
> I am always fascinated with lumps of islamo nazi pig excrement trash use the word  "ASHKENAZI"      it gives them away for the lying thieving dogs that they are.    The word  ASHKENAZI   is a hebrew word-----hebrew being the ONLY EXTANT LANGUAGE that developed in the land mass called "palestine" or even CANAAN     The word itself refers to ANOTHER LAND MASS-----so named in ancient times long before the birth of the rapist pig of arabia and long before the dogs of arabia emerged from the filthy tents in the arabian desert to rape and pillage their way thru half the world.    The land mass is  ASHKENAZ----which vaguely includes the rhine valley and the sorround----most of europe.    The word  ASHKENAZI refers to a person who has sojourned in ASHKENAZ   in the same way that the word  SEPHARDI  means a person who has sojourned in SAFRAD---approximately the IBERIAN PENNINSULA    Thus an ASHKENAZI is a person who derives from   the place where hebrew developed and is  so called because he was GONE FOR AWHILE  to the land of Ashkenaz     The islamo nazi dogs have no idea that when they use the word  ASHKENAZI to describe jews-----they are admitting that they are describing people who originated in PALESTINE         islamo nazis are that stupid.    For the record-----arabic was developed in arabia and stayed in arabia until the dogs emerged from the disease ridden tents to EMULATE AL NABI    by raping and murdering and enslaving and pillaging  -------and comitting genocide in the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS.....and counting


Over 170 million since Mahootma was hatched.


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Fraud" you say? Dare you overlook the most spectacular fraud of the twentieth century---the modern state of Israel?  The vast majority of the native population were born there, easily confirmed in the predictable birth-rates from the period of the Ottoman transfer to the British takeover. But if you really want to talk "fraud" let's examine Israel's "right of return" that applies to Jews who've never set foot in Palestine, yet are accorded superior rights over the native population...let's address the welfare status of Israel...the artificial economy kept afloat by massive---and vastly under-reported subsidies...Israelis virtually invented fraud...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blah, blah, blah.
> Your rant only serves to prove that you know your defense of your "13 century" claim is lame.
> Rather than try to deflect the conversation, let's just keep it on point:
> the irrefutable fact that only 2 years of residency was required - and perhaps little, if any, proof - to qualify for "refugee" status.
> The temptation for potential "refugees" to cash in on "three hots and a cot" and the relief agency's desire to justify their existence and their budget provided ample opportunity and motivation for fraud. In fact, I'm confident that those who lived in the area, say Southern Syria or Jordan or Egypt, signed up just to create inflated facts-on-the-ground.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LOL  the last thing your tiny, immobile mind should be focusing on is the qualifications for refugee status Mingus...were it not for the political pressure brought to bear on western leaders through the UN, this dirty little ill-gotten state would never have been accorded legitimacy or recognition...and you bark because the victims dare to seek address?
Click to expand...


Your lastest rant notwithstanding, it is clear that your method of dealing with facts is to avoid them like the plague. Perhaps a good start to your rehabilitation would be to try to absorb these very funamental facts:
Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
"Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!


----------



## Sundowner47

SAYIT said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blah, blah, blah.
> Your rant only serves to prove that you know your defense of your "13 century" claim is lame.
> Rather than try to deflect the conversation, let's just keep it on point:
> the irrefutable fact that only 2 years of residency was required - and perhaps little, if any, proof - to qualify for "refugee" status.
> The temptation for potential "refugees" to cash in on "three hots and a cot" and the relief agency's desire to justify their existence and their budget provided ample opportunity and motivation for fraud. In fact, I'm confident that those who lived in the area, say Southern Syria or Jordan or Egypt, signed up just to create inflated facts-on-the-ground.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL  the last thing your tiny, immobile mind should be focusing on is the qualifications for refugee status Mingus...were it not for the political pressure brought to bear on western leaders through the UN, this dirty little ill-gotten state would never have been accorded legitimacy or recognition...and you bark because the victims dare to seek address?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your lastest rant notwithstanding, it is clear that your method of dealing with facts is to avoid them like the plague. Perhaps a good start to your rehabilitation would be to try to absorb these very funamental facts:
> Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
> "Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!
Click to expand...


To mention your obvious limitations might be redundant SAYIT, suffice to say that I've dearly missed your awkward idiocy...in place of reasonable arguments you post weak aphorisms...the transparent mark of a disabled mind...ahahahahahaha


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> how about     A HOLY SPIRITUAL ENCOUNTER OF THE FORCED KIND?
> 
> 
> 
> *How about Kosher Baby Killer Gets 45 Holy Days:*
> 
> "An Israeli soldier accused of killing a mother and daughter carrying a white flag in Gaza during Israel's 2009 'Operation Cast Lead' has received a sentence of only 45 days following a plea deal approved by a military court on Sunday.
> 
> "Rayah Abu Hajaj (in this family photo) and her daughter Majedah were shot while walking with a group of Palestinians holding white flags after their home was bombed during Israel's 'Operation Cast Lead' in the Gaza Strip in 2009.
> 
> "The charges against the soldier -- known only in court documents and the Israeli media as 'staff sergeant S'..."
> 
> I wonder if that's staff sergeant Sieg heil?
> Another relative of rosie's.
> 
> Israeli Sniper Gets Only 45 Days for Killing of Two Women under White Flags | Common Dreams
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> FYI, Georgie, that soldier has suffered cruel and unusual punishment. IMO.
Click to expand...

It's always funny when another family loses a mother and daughter.
Would it be even funnier if it were yours?
FYI, my actions have never lead to the murder of a mother or a daughter.
How about yours?


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *How about Kosher Baby Killer Gets 45 Holy Days:*
> 
> "An Israeli soldier accused of killing a mother and daughter carrying a white flag in Gaza during Israel's 2009 'Operation Cast Lead' has received a sentence of only 45 days following a plea deal approved by a military court on Sunday.
> 
> "Rayah Abu Hajaj (in this family photo) and her daughter Majedah were shot while walking with a group of Palestinians holding white flags after their home was bombed during Israel's 'Operation Cast Lead' in the Gaza Strip in 2009.
> 
> "The charges against the soldier -- known only in court documents and the Israeli media as 'staff sergeant S'..."
> 
> I wonder if that's staff sergeant Sieg heil?
> Another relative of rosie's.
> 
> Israeli Sniper Gets Only 45 Days for Killing of Two Women under White Flags | Common Dreams
> 
> 
> 
> FYI, Georgie, that soldier has suffered cruel and unusual punishment. IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's always funny when another family loses a mother and daughter.
> Would it be even funnier if it were yours?
> FYI, my actions have never lead to the murder of a mother or a daughter.
> How about yours?
Click to expand...

Ditto.


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL  the last thing your tiny, immobile mind should be focusing on is the qualifications for refugee status Mingus...were it not for the political pressure brought to bear on western leaders through the UN, this dirty little ill-gotten state would never have been accorded legitimacy or recognition...and you bark because the victims dare to seek address?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your lastest rant notwithstanding, it is clear that your method of dealing with facts is to avoid them like the plague. Perhaps a good start to your rehabilitation would be to try to absorb these very funamental facts:
> Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
> "Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To mention your obvious limitations might be redundant SAYIT, suffice to say that I've dearly missed your awkward idiocy...in place of reasonable arguments you post weak aphorisms...the transparent mark of a disabled mind...ahahahahahaha
Click to expand...


Of course, this is all about your need to deflect from the fact that so many of those hapless "refugees" may not be the genuine article.
Just a word of advice:
According to your board Rep rating you spend most of your time "sucking off goats." I suggest you stop swallowing, Princess.


----------



## irosie91

Bases on the islamo nazi pig definition of  "PALESTINIAN REFUGEE"       most of the world remains    "REFUGEES"       where do I get my free sack of rice?


----------



## Sundowner47

SAYIT said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your lastest rant notwithstanding, it is clear that your method of dealing with facts is to avoid them like the plague. Perhaps a good start to your rehabilitation would be to try to absorb these very funamental facts:
> Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
> "Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To mention your obvious limitations might be redundant SAYIT, suffice to say that I've dearly missed your awkward idiocy...in place of reasonable arguments you post weak aphorisms...the transparent mark of a disabled mind...ahahahahahaha
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course, this is all about your need to deflect from the fact that so many of those hapless "refugees" may not be the genuine article.
> Just a word of advice:
> According to your board Rep rating you spend most of your time "sucking off goats." I suggest you stop swallowing, Princess.
Click to expand...


Again you sound angry---whereas I am laughing over my coffee...care to hazard a random guess as to whom has whom by the shorties? When you lying filth cannot manage to organize your lies, the hostility-meter spikes, and I fall from my chair in raucous laughter...please don't stop...LOL


----------



## irosie91

Keep laughing     I tend to agree with you that the dogs who rule  Iran have no right to exist       nor does any place called "IRAN"    have a right to exist and best of all------the dogs rulers of Iran are out to prove that fact


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI, Georgie, that soldier has suffered cruel and unusual punishment. IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> It's always funny when another family loses a mother and daughter.
> Would it be even funnier if it were yours?
> FYI, my actions have never lead to the murder of a mother or a daughter.
> How about yours?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ditto.
Click to expand...


You are always there to cheer them on.


----------



## Lipush

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's always funny when another family loses a mother and daughter.
> Would it be even funnier if it were yours?
> FYI, my actions have never lead to the murder of a mother or a daughter.
> How about yours?
> 
> 
> 
> Ditto.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are always there to cheer them on.
Click to expand...


As you are to those who kill Jewish babies?


----------



## Sundowner47

...Same Zionist echo-chamber spilling their rehearsed lies and depravity across the boards...but the question that both lingers and defines is a rather simple one: 

if a group must commit itself to lies in order to defend itself...what fundamental conclusions can we draw???


----------



## Sundowner47

Affirming Israels right to exist has almost become the diplomatic standard in the Middle East.  Why, anyone who would dare challenge this notion is obviously not rational, to say the least.

            Yet the fact is, Israel does not have a right to exist.  That is, Israel does not have a moral right to exist.

            Israel was declared a country in Palestine when that declaration was against the will of the majority of the people living in Palestine at the time.  Thus, the right of the people of Palestine to self-determination was denied.  It was morally wrong.  It is that simple.

            Of course, the government of Israel does exist for many reasons.  The two most prominent are that many feel sympathy for Jews because of the history of persecution, and therefore support the Jews desire for a homeland where they would be immune from persecution.

            However, the fact that the Jews were persecuted in various times and places in history doesnt give them the right to persecute someone else.  It doesnt give Jews the right to deny the right to self-determination to the Palestinians.  Two moral wrongs dont make a moral right.

            It is also interesting that the claim for a Jewish homeland would presumably mean that Jews would want land that would not be taken away from them by someone else claiming a divine right to their homeland.  That is very interesting indeed.

            Another reason why Israel exists is the result of support from America, and much of that support is from Christians who believe the Bible affirms the Jews claim of divine right to the land of Palestine.  Of course, there are many Christians who disagree with that conclusion, and believe it is a severe misunderstanding of the Bible.

            However, what is interesting is that the Christian debate is irrelevant--Jews believe that they have a divine right to the land.  And this claim is the legitimate prerogative of the Jewish faith.  In fact, this is a popular claim by many faiths.  Many groups of people around the world believe that they have a divine right to various lands.  In fact, many in the Arab world believe that Palestine is Arab Land.

            This raises questions of what is morally right when there is a divine right claim to the land.  Is a claim of divine right a legitimate or moral reason to settle competing land claims?  And, is it morally right to force one claim of divine right on someone who doesnt recognize that claim?

            The obvious answer is no, it is not morally right to force a claim of divine right on someone that doesnt recognize that claim.  It is not morally right because no one wants to be deprived of their land or property because someone else makes a divine right to their land or property that they dont recognize.  Christians would recognize this principle as the Golden Rule.

            Thus, the larger issue in Palestine is not who has a divine right to the land.  The issue that should be discussed is who has the moral right, and that issue has been largely absent in the debate over Israel.

            Jews and supporters of Israel have been successful in framing the debate in terms of denying the Jews their divine right.  But the real issue is morality.  Who has the legitimate moral right to the land?  And how should that moral right be determined?

            And most important, what if the Palestinians dont recognize the Jews claim of divine right?  Should the Palestinians be murdered and their property taken anyway?  Is this the proper moral position of Christians, that if the Palestinians dont recognize a divine right, they should be murdered?

            Most Christians would find that murdering Palestinians in order to impose a divine right is abhorrent to Christianity.  It would be morally wrong, and thus Israel does not have a moral right to exist.

            If murder or war is not morally correct in arbitrating land disputes, what is the correct moral path?  The popular moral tenet in America is that the will of the people should be recognized in settling political disputes.  The preamble to the Constitution begins with We the people,   Land claims in Palestine should have been settled by the will of all the people of Palestine.

            And how should the will of the people be determined?  In America, the will of the people is morally determined by voting.  Americans viscerally understand that determining the will of the people through majority vote is a legitimate and moral method of settling virtually any dispute. 

            When the Jews declared Israel a state in 1948, Jews were approximately one-third of the population.  Had there been a vote in all of Palestine in 1948 to ascertain if the will of the Palestinian people agreed that Israel had a right to be a state, that right would have been denied.  The majority of the people of Palestine did not grant the Jews a right to declare Israel a sovereign state.

            Of course, no vote was ever taken.  Thus, for the Jews to ignore the will of the Palestinian people and declare Israel a state was morally wrong.  The moral right to allow the will of Palestinian people to prevail was denied.

            Israel does not have a moral right to exist.


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> ...Same Zionist echo-chamber spilling their rehearsed lies and depravity across the boards...



Ya whiney sniveler.


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> ...Same Zionist echo-chamber spilling their rehearsed lies and depravity across the boards...but the question that both lingers and defines is a rather simple one:
> if a group must commit itself to lies in order to defend itself...what fundamental conclusions can we draw???



In this case, that you Jew-haters never change your stripes.


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> Affirming Israels right to exist has almost become the diplomatic standard in the Middle East.  Why, anyone who would dare challenge this notion is obviously not rational, to say the least.
> 
> Yet the fact is, Israel does not have a right to exist.  That is, Israel does not have a moral right to exist.
> 
> Israel was declared a country in Palestine when that declaration was against the will of the majority of the people living in Palestine at the time.  Thus, the right of the people of Palestine to self-determination was denied.  It was morally wrong.  It is that simple.
> 
> Of course, the government of Israel does exist for many reasons.  The two most prominent are that many feel sympathy for Jews because of the history of persecution, and therefore support the Jews desire for a homeland where they would be immune from persecution.
> 
> However, the fact that the Jews were persecuted in various times and places in history doesnt give them the right to persecute someone else.  It doesnt give Jews the right to deny the right to self-determination to the Palestinians.  Two moral wrongs dont make a moral right.
> 
> It is also interesting that the claim for a Jewish homeland would presumably mean that Jews would want land that would not be taken away from them by someone else claiming a divine right to their homeland.  That is very interesting indeed.
> 
> Another reason why Israel exists is the result of support from America, and much of that support is from Christians who believe the Bible affirms the Jews claim of divine right to the land of Palestine.  Of course, there are many Christians who disagree with that conclusion, and believe it is a severe misunderstanding of the Bible.
> 
> However, what is interesting is that the Christian debate is irrelevant--Jews believe that they have a divine right to the land.  And this claim is the legitimate prerogative of the Jewish faith.  In fact, this is a popular claim by many faiths.  Many groups of people around the world believe that they have a divine right to various lands.  In fact, many in the Arab world believe that Palestine is Arab Land.
> 
> This raises questions of what is morally right when there is a divine right claim to the land.  Is a claim of divine right a legitimate or moral reason to settle competing land claims?  And, is it morally right to force one claim of divine right on someone who doesnt recognize that claim?
> 
> The obvious answer is no, it is not morally right to force a claim of divine right on someone that doesnt recognize that claim.  It is not morally right because no one wants to be deprived of their land or property because someone else makes a divine right to their land or property that they dont recognize.  Christians would recognize this principle as the Golden Rule.
> 
> Thus, the larger issue in Palestine is not who has a divine right to the land.  The issue that should be discussed is who has the moral right, and that issue has been largely absent in the debate over Israel.
> 
> Jews and supporters of Israel have been successful in framing the debate in terms of denying the Jews their divine right.  But the real issue is morality.  Who has the legitimate moral right to the land?  And how should that moral right be determined?
> 
> And most important, what if the Palestinians dont recognize the Jews claim of divine right?  Should the Palestinians be murdered and their property taken anyway?  Is this the proper moral position of Christians, that if the Palestinians dont recognize a divine right, they should be murdered?
> 
> Most Christians would find that murdering Palestinians in order to impose a divine right is abhorrent to Christianity.  It would be morally wrong, and thus Israel does not have a moral right to exist.
> 
> If murder or war is not morally correct in arbitrating land disputes, what is the correct moral path?  The popular moral tenet in America is that the will of the people should be recognized in settling political disputes.  The preamble to the Constitution begins with We the people,   Land claims in Palestine should have been settled by the will of all the people of Palestine.
> 
> And how should the will of the people be determined?  In America, the will of the people is morally determined by voting.  Americans viscerally understand that determining the will of the people through majority vote is a legitimate and moral method of settling virtually any dispute.
> 
> When the Jews declared Israel a state in 1948, Jews were approximately one-third of the population.  Had there been a vote in all of Palestine in 1948 to ascertain if the will of the Palestinian people agreed that Israel had a right to be a state, that right would have been denied.  The majority of the people of Palestine did not grant the Jews a right to declare Israel a sovereign state.
> 
> Of course, no vote was ever taken.  Thus, for the Jews to ignore the will of the Palestinian people and declare Israel a state was morally wrong.  The moral right to allow the will of Palestinian people to prevail was denied.
> 
> Israel does not have a moral right to exist.



And despite you and your braying Israel does indeed exist. In fact:
Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
"Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!


----------



## Sundowner47

As I've said nothing changes...its akin to arguing with recalcitrant children...the preferred comebacks are as weak and ineffectual as might be expected:  "Jew hater"...."Muslim"..."Jihadist'...etc....etc.

Jews have been roundly despised by every host culture for thousands of years...they have been expelled from every host culture...are we to believe the facts, or the one's denying them?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lipush said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ditto.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are always there to cheer them on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As you are to those who kill Jewish babies?
Click to expand...


Come in, Lipush, you know I have never done that.


----------



## Sundowner47

God is it effortless to go fishing for the SAYIT variety of Carp....hahahahahahahahahahaha


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> As I've said nothing changes...its akin to arguing with recalcitrant children...the preferred comebacks are as weak and ineffectual as might be expected:  "Jew hater"...."Muslim"..."Jihadist'...etc....etc.
> 
> Jews have been roundly despised by every host culture for thousands of years...they have been expelled from every host culture...are we to believe the facts, or the one's denying them?



You refer, of course, to the fact that Jew-haters never change their stripes?
BTW, your board Rep rating still says you spend way too much time "sucking off goats." 
I suggest you stop swalowing, Princess.


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *How about Kosher Baby Killer Gets 45 Holy Days:*
> 
> "An Israeli soldier accused of killing a mother and daughter carrying a white flag in Gaza during Israel's 2009 'Operation Cast Lead' has received a sentence of only 45 days following a plea deal approved by a military court on Sunday.
> 
> "Rayah Abu Hajaj (in this family photo) and her daughter Majedah were shot while walking with a group of Palestinians holding white flags after their home was bombed during Israel's 'Operation Cast Lead' in the Gaza Strip in 2009.
> 
> "The charges against the soldier -- known only in court documents and the Israeli media as 'staff sergeant S'..."
> 
> I wonder if that's staff sergeant Sieg heil?
> Another relative of rosie's.
> 
> Israeli Sniper Gets Only 45 Days for Killing of Two Women under White Flags | Common Dreams
> 
> 
> 
> FYI, Georgie, that soldier has suffered cruel and unusual punishment. IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's always funny when another family loses a mother and daughter.
> Would it be even funnier if it were yours?
> FYI, my actions have never lead to the murder of a mother or a daughter.
Click to expand...


And you know that because?
One could easily argue that the now 64 year old Arab siege of Israel is at least in part fueled by the exhortations of fools ... well, fools just like you.


----------



## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's always funny when another family loses a mother and daughter.
> Would it be even funnier if it were yours?
> FYI, my actions have never lead to the murder of a mother or a daughter.
> How about yours?
> 
> 
> 
> Ditto.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are always there to cheer them on.
Click to expand...


As are you, Princess.


----------



## Sundowner47

SAYIT said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As I've said nothing changes...its akin to arguing with recalcitrant children...the preferred comebacks are as weak and ineffectual as might be expected:  "Jew hater"...."Muslim"..."Jihadist'...etc....etc.
> 
> Jews have been roundly despised by every host culture for thousands of years...they have been expelled from every host culture...are we to believe the facts, or the one's denying them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You refer, of course, to the fact that Jew-haters never change their stripes?
> BTW, your board Rep rating still says you spend way too much time "sucking off goats."
> I suggest you stop swalowing, Princess.
Click to expand...



how old are you SAYIT?  aren't such juvenile responses the property of teenagers...and what is this new attachment to goats...I 've always assumed that you were given to sexual eccentricities, but goats???


----------



## Lipush

Sundowner47 said:


> Affirming Israel&#8217;s right to exist has almost become the diplomatic standard in the Middle East.  Why, anyone who would dare challenge this notion is obviously not rational, to say the least.
> 
> Yet the fact is, Israel does not have a right to exist.  That is, Israel does not have a moral right to exist.
> 
> Israel was declared a country in Palestine when that declaration was against the will of the majority of the people living in Palestine at the time.  Thus, the right of the people of Palestine to self-determination was denied.  It was morally wrong.  It is that simple.
> 
> Of course, the government of Israel does exist for many reasons.  The two most prominent are that many feel sympathy for Jews because of the history of persecution, and therefore support the Jew&#8217;s desire for a &#8220;homeland&#8221; where they would be immune from persecution.
> 
> However, the fact that the Jews were persecuted in various times and places in history doesn&#8217;t give them the right to persecute someone else.  It doesn&#8217;t give Jews the right to deny the right to self-determination to the Palestinians.  Two moral wrongs don&#8217;t make a moral right.
> 
> It is also interesting that the claim for a Jewish homeland would presumably mean that Jews would want land that would not be taken away from them by someone else claiming a divine right to their homeland.  That is very interesting indeed.
> 
> Another reason why Israel exists is the result of support from America, and much of that support is from Christians who believe the Bible affirms the Jew&#8217;s claim of &#8220;divine right&#8221; to the land of Palestine.  Of course, there are many Christians who disagree with that conclusion, and believe it is a severe misunderstanding of the Bible.
> 
> However, what is interesting is that the Christian debate is irrelevant--Jews believe that they have a divine right to the land.  And this claim is the legitimate prerogative of the Jewish faith.  In fact, this is a popular claim by many faiths.  Many groups of people around the world believe that they have a divine right to various lands.  In fact, many in the Arab world believe that Palestine is &#8220;Arab Land&#8221;.
> 
> This raises questions of what is morally right when there is a divine right claim to the land.  Is a claim of divine right a legitimate or moral reason to settle competing land claims?  And, is it morally right to force one claim of divine right on someone who doesn&#8217;t recognize that claim?
> 
> The obvious answer is no, it is not morally right to force a claim of divine right on someone that doesn&#8217;t recognize that claim.  It is not morally right because no one wants to be deprived of their land or property because someone else makes a divine right to their land or property that they don&#8217;t recognize.  Christians would recognize this principle as the Golden Rule.
> 
> Thus, the larger issue in Palestine is not who has a divine right to the land.  The issue that should be discussed is who has the moral right, and that issue has been largely absent in the debate over Israel.
> 
> Jews and supporters of Israel have been successful in framing the debate in terms of denying the Jews their divine right.  But the real issue is morality.  Who has the legitimate moral right to the land?  And how should that moral right be determined?
> 
> And most important, what if the Palestinians don&#8217;t recognize the Jew&#8217;s claim of divine right?  Should the Palestinians be murdered and their property taken anyway?  Is this the proper moral position of Christians, that if the Palestinians don&#8217;t recognize a divine right, they should be murdered?
> 
> Most Christians would find that murdering Palestinians in order to impose a divine right is abhorrent to Christianity.  It would be morally wrong, and thus Israel does not have a moral right to exist.
> 
> If murder or war is not morally correct in arbitrating land disputes, what is the correct moral path?  The popular moral tenet in America is that the will of the people should be recognized in settling political disputes.  The preamble to the Constitution begins with &#8220;We the people, &#8230;&#8221;  Land claims in Palestine should have been settled by the will of all the people of Palestine.
> 
> And how should the will of the people be determined?  In America, the will of the people is morally determined by voting.  Americans viscerally understand that determining the will of the people through majority vote is a legitimate and moral method of settling virtually any dispute.
> 
> When the Jews declared Israel a state in 1948, Jews were approximately one-third of the population.  Had there been a vote in all of Palestine in 1948 to ascertain if the will of the Palestinian people agreed that Israel had a right to be a state, that right would have been denied.  The majority of the people of Palestine did not grant the Jews a right to declare Israel a sovereign state.
> 
> Of course, no vote was ever taken.  Thus, for the Jews to ignore the will of the Palestinian people and declare Israel a state was morally wrong.  The moral right to allow the will of Palestinian people to prevail was denied.
> 
> Israel does not have a moral right to exist.



Israel have a morale right to exist just like every other state.

99% of the world's states build their countries based on occupation of lands. in their case, the land was unfamiliar to them. The Jews occupy their homeland.

 All states have morale rights of existence, Israel is no different.


----------



## P F Tinmore

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ditto.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are always there to cheer them on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As are you, Princess.
Click to expand...


Links?


----------



## Sundowner47

lipush said:


> sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> affirming israels right to exist has almost become the diplomatic standard in the middle east.  Why, anyone who would dare challenge this notion is obviously not rational, to say the least.
> 
> Yet the fact is, israel does not have a right to exist.  That is, israel does not have a moral right to exist.
> 
> Israel was declared a country in palestine when that declaration was against the will of the majority of the people living in palestine at the time.  Thus, the right of the people of palestine to self-determination was denied.  It was morally wrong.  It is that simple.
> 
> Of course, the government of israel does exist for many reasons.  The two most prominent are that many feel sympathy for jews because of the history of persecution, and therefore support the jews desire for a homeland where they would be immune from persecution.
> 
> However, the fact that the jews were persecuted in various times and places in history doesnt give them the right to persecute someone else.  It doesnt give jews the right to deny the right to self-determination to the palestinians.  Two moral wrongs dont make a moral right.
> 
> It is also interesting that the claim for a jewish homeland would presumably mean that jews would want land that would not be taken away from them by someone else claiming a divine right to their homeland.  That is very interesting indeed.
> 
> Another reason why israel exists is the result of support from america, and much of that support is from christians who believe the bible affirms the jews claim of divine right to the land of palestine.  Of course, there are many christians who disagree with that conclusion, and believe it is a severe misunderstanding of the bible.
> 
> However, what is interesting is that the christian debate is irrelevant--jews believe that they have a divine right to the land.  And this claim is the legitimate prerogative of the jewish faith.  In fact, this is a popular claim by many faiths.  Many groups of people around the world believe that they have a divine right to various lands.  In fact, many in the arab world believe that palestine is arab land.
> 
> This raises questions of what is morally right when there is a divine right claim to the land.  Is a claim of divine right a legitimate or moral reason to settle competing land claims?  And, is it morally right to force one claim of divine right on someone who doesnt recognize that claim?
> 
> The obvious answer is no, it is not morally right to force a claim of divine right on someone that doesnt recognize that claim.  It is not morally right because no one wants to be deprived of their land or property because someone else makes a divine right to their land or property that they dont recognize.  Christians would recognize this principle as the golden rule.
> 
> Thus, the larger issue in palestine is not who has a divine right to the land.  The issue that should be discussed is who has the moral right, and that issue has been largely absent in the debate over israel.
> 
> Jews and supporters of israel have been successful in framing the debate in terms of denying the jews their divine right.  But the real issue is morality.  Who has the legitimate moral right to the land?  And how should that moral right be determined?
> 
> And most important, what if the palestinians dont recognize the jews claim of divine right?  Should the palestinians be murdered and their property taken anyway?  Is this the proper moral position of christians, that if the palestinians dont recognize a divine right, they should be murdered?
> 
> Most christians would find that murdering palestinians in order to impose a divine right is abhorrent to christianity.  It would be morally wrong, and thus israel does not have a moral right to exist.
> 
> If murder or war is not morally correct in arbitrating land disputes, what is the correct moral path?  The popular moral tenet in america is that the will of the people should be recognized in settling political disputes.  The preamble to the constitution begins with we the people,   land claims in palestine should have been settled by the will of all the people of palestine.
> 
> And how should the will of the people be determined?  In america, the will of the people is morally determined by voting.  Americans viscerally understand that determining the will of the people through majority vote is a legitimate and moral method of settling virtually any dispute.
> 
> When the jews declared israel a state in 1948, jews were approximately one-third of the population.  Had there been a vote in all of palestine in 1948 to ascertain if the will of the palestinian people agreed that israel had a right to be a state, that right would have been denied.  The majority of the people of palestine did not grant the jews a right to declare israel a sovereign state.
> 
> Of course, no vote was ever taken.  Thus, for the jews to ignore the will of the palestinian people and declare israel a state was morally wrong.  The moral right to allow the will of palestinian people to prevail was denied.
> 
> Israel does not have a moral right to exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> israel have a morale right to exist just like every other state.
> 
> 99% of the world's states build their countries based on occupation of lands. In their case, the land was unfamiliar to them. The jews occupy their homeland.
> 
> All states have morale rights of existence, israel is no different.
Click to expand...



you don't really pay attention to details do you?  No state in the world inheres a "right to exist"....does this yet register?


----------



## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are always there to cheer them on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As are you, Princess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...


Pick any of your camel crap posts from PIC (The Voice of Palestine).


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As I've said nothing changes...its akin to arguing with recalcitrant children...the preferred comebacks are as weak and ineffectual as might be expected:  "Jew hater"...."Muslim"..."Jihadist'...etc....etc.
> 
> Jews have been roundly despised by every host culture for thousands of years...they have been expelled from every host culture...are we to believe the facts, or the one's denying them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You refer, of course, to the fact that Jew-haters never change their stripes?
> BTW, your board Rep rating still says you spend way too much time "sucking off goats."
> I suggest you stop swalowing, Princess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> how old are you SAYIT?  aren't such juvenile responses the property of teenagers...and what is this new attachment to goats...I 've always assumed that you were given to sexual eccentricities, but goats???
Click to expand...


Just run your cursor over your Rep rating, Princess. It's the board's view of you.


----------



## Sundowner47

sayit said:


> p f tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sayit said:
> 
> 
> 
> as are you, princess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> pick any of your camel crap posts from pic (the voice of palestine).
Click to expand...



from whence do you glean your post content sayit?....massada2000 or other such reputable sources?  Possibly goat-suckers-monthly?


----------



## Sundowner47

sayit said:


> sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sayit said:
> 
> 
> 
> you refer, of course, to the fact that jew-haters never change their stripes?
> Btw, your board rep rating still says you spend way too much time "sucking off goats."
> i suggest you stop swalowing, princess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how old are you sayit?  Aren't such juvenile responses the property of teenagers...and what is this new attachment to goats...i 've always assumed that you were given to sexual eccentricities, but goats???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> just run your cursor over your rep rating, princess. It's the board's view of you.
Click to expand...


...and this signifies what exactly? Perhaps the ratio of zionists to critics?  Lol


----------



## irosie91

Most partitions of lands  accomplished to save  people from the rape and murder you so love are not a matter of a VOTE     For example----the sudan did not VOTE for the partition of the SUDAN        It was a matter----to your disappointment ---of saving a mere few million from the rape and murder and enslavement that you so enjoy         In the USA    if the issue of slavery had been put to a popular vote-------there would still be slaves in the USA       Your statement that the muslims did not want to give up their self proclaimed right to   murder, rape and enslave      and therefore any attempt to DEPRIVE them of that right is  "ILLEGAL"     is a joke-------in fact the UMMAH optimism that it will WIN THAT RIGHT IN THE FUTURE  by   VOTE is another joke.   People are highly motivated to avoid the filth you advocate      even when they are a minority.       England did not get to VOTE on the independence of the  13 colonies either


----------



## Jos

Sundowner47 said:


> sayit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> how old are you sayit?  Aren't such juvenile responses the property of teenagers...and what is this new attachment to goats...i 've always assumed that you were given to sexual eccentricities, but goats???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just run your cursor over your rep rating, princess. It's the board's view of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ...and this signifies what exactly? Perhaps the ratio of zionists to critics?  Lol
Click to expand...


True, some people like sayshit give it importance as secretly they would like to fuck something, anything, even a goat again


----------



## Lipush

Sundowner47 said:


> lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> affirming israels right to exist has almost become the diplomatic standard in the middle east.  Why, anyone who would dare challenge this notion is obviously not rational, to say the least.
> 
> Yet the fact is, israel does not have a right to exist.  That is, israel does not have a moral right to exist.
> 
> Israel was declared a country in palestine when that declaration was against the will of the majority of the people living in palestine at the time.  Thus, the right of the people of palestine to self-determination was denied.  It was morally wrong.  It is that simple.
> 
> Of course, the government of israel does exist for many reasons.  The two most prominent are that many feel sympathy for jews because of the history of persecution, and therefore support the jews desire for a homeland where they would be immune from persecution.
> 
> However, the fact that the jews were persecuted in various times and places in history doesnt give them the right to persecute someone else.  It doesnt give jews the right to deny the right to self-determination to the palestinians.  Two moral wrongs dont make a moral right.
> 
> It is also interesting that the claim for a jewish homeland would presumably mean that jews would want land that would not be taken away from them by someone else claiming a divine right to their homeland.  That is very interesting indeed.
> 
> Another reason why israel exists is the result of support from america, and much of that support is from christians who believe the bible affirms the jews claim of divine right to the land of palestine.  Of course, there are many christians who disagree with that conclusion, and believe it is a severe misunderstanding of the bible.
> 
> However, what is interesting is that the christian debate is irrelevant--jews believe that they have a divine right to the land.  And this claim is the legitimate prerogative of the jewish faith.  In fact, this is a popular claim by many faiths.  Many groups of people around the world believe that they have a divine right to various lands.  In fact, many in the arab world believe that palestine is arab land.
> 
> This raises questions of what is morally right when there is a divine right claim to the land.  Is a claim of divine right a legitimate or moral reason to settle competing land claims?  And, is it morally right to force one claim of divine right on someone who doesnt recognize that claim?
> 
> The obvious answer is no, it is not morally right to force a claim of divine right on someone that doesnt recognize that claim.  It is not morally right because no one wants to be deprived of their land or property because someone else makes a divine right to their land or property that they dont recognize.  Christians would recognize this principle as the golden rule.
> 
> Thus, the larger issue in palestine is not who has a divine right to the land.  The issue that should be discussed is who has the moral right, and that issue has been largely absent in the debate over israel.
> 
> Jews and supporters of israel have been successful in framing the debate in terms of denying the jews their divine right.  But the real issue is morality.  Who has the legitimate moral right to the land?  And how should that moral right be determined?
> 
> And most important, what if the palestinians dont recognize the jews claim of divine right?  Should the palestinians be murdered and their property taken anyway?  Is this the proper moral position of christians, that if the palestinians dont recognize a divine right, they should be murdered?
> 
> Most christians would find that murdering palestinians in order to impose a divine right is abhorrent to christianity.  It would be morally wrong, and thus israel does not have a moral right to exist.
> 
> If murder or war is not morally correct in arbitrating land disputes, what is the correct moral path?  The popular moral tenet in america is that the will of the people should be recognized in settling political disputes.  The preamble to the constitution begins with we the people,   land claims in palestine should have been settled by the will of all the people of palestine.
> 
> And how should the will of the people be determined?  In america, the will of the people is morally determined by voting.  Americans viscerally understand that determining the will of the people through majority vote is a legitimate and moral method of settling virtually any dispute.
> 
> When the jews declared israel a state in 1948, jews were approximately one-third of the population.  Had there been a vote in all of palestine in 1948 to ascertain if the will of the palestinian people agreed that israel had a right to be a state, that right would have been denied.  The majority of the people of palestine did not grant the jews a right to declare israel a sovereign state.
> 
> Of course, no vote was ever taken.  Thus, for the jews to ignore the will of the palestinian people and declare israel a state was morally wrong.  The moral right to allow the will of palestinian people to prevail was denied.
> 
> Israel does not have a moral right to exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> israel have a morale right to exist just like every other state.
> 
> 99% of the world's states build their countries based on occupation of lands. In their case, the land was unfamiliar to them. The jews occupy their homeland.
> 
> All states have morale rights of existence, israel is no different.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> you don't really pay attention to details do you?  No state in the world inheres a "right to exist"....does this yet register?
Click to expand...


In that case, let us not talk about "right to exist" but simply of "Israel's existence" as a fact.

That will be much better.


----------



## Lipush

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are always there to cheer them on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you are to those who kill Jewish babies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Come in, Lipush, you know I have never done that.
Click to expand...


Just like Israel's supporters don't think killing Palestinian children is a good thing.

How that we settled THAT right, we're good to go.


----------



## Lipush

Sundowner47 said:


> As I've said nothing changes...its akin to arguing with recalcitrant children...the preferred comebacks are as weak and ineffectual as might be expected:  "Jew hater"...."Muslim"..."Jihadist'...etc....etc.
> 
> Jews have been roundly despised by every host culture for thousands of years...they have been expelled from every host culture...are we to believe the facts, or the one's denying them?



You constantly spit anti-semitic remaks, then say we "whine" you're a Jew haters?

Do you not follow what you write?


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI, Georgie, that soldier has suffered cruel and unusual punishment. IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> It's always funny when another family loses a mother and daughter.
> Would it be even funnier if it were yours?
> FYI, my actions have never lead to the murder of a mother or a daughter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you know that because?
> One could easily argue that the now 64 year old Arab siege of Israel is at least in part fueled by the exhortations of fools ... well, fools just like you.
Click to expand...

One could just as easily argue the 1948 plan to give one-third of the citizens of Mandate Palestine 55% of the land of Palestine began today's illegal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> sayit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> how old are you sayit?  Aren't such juvenile responses the property of teenagers...and what is this new attachment to goats...i 've always assumed that you were given to sexual eccentricities, but goats???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just run your cursor over your rep rating, Princess. It's the board's view of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ...and this signifies what exactly? Perhaps the ratio of zionists to critics?  Lol
Click to expand...


I think it just signifies that you suck off goats, Princess, and I recommend you stop swallowing.


----------



## Hossfly

Sundowner47 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> from  "sundowner"   the islamo nazi lump of excrement
> Incorrect stupid...please allow me to explain the difference---and not to worry, I'll use small words so as to avoid confusion on your part: The Arab Palestinians have resided on these lands for 13 centuries, the Ashkenazi trash for a little more than sixty years of criminal occupation....under normal circumstances determining which party has residency rights shouldn't be much of a stretch, but the Jews are a pack of committed liars and thieves who believe they can also occupy critical history...hope this helps simpleton
> 
> I am always fascinated with lumps of islamo nazi pig excrement trash use the word  "ASHKENAZI"      it gives them away for the lying thieving dogs that they are.    The word  ASHKENAZI   is a hebrew word-----hebrew being the ONLY EXTANT LANGUAGE that developed in the land mass called "palestine" or even CANAAN     The word itself refers to ANOTHER LAND MASS-----so named in ancient times long before the birth of the rapist pig of arabia and long before the dogs of arabia emerged from the filthy tents in the arabian desert to rape and pillage their way thru half the world.    The land mass is  ASHKENAZ----which vaguely includes the rhine valley and the sorround----most of europe.    The word  ASHKENAZI refers to a person who has sojourned in ASHKENAZ   in the same way that the word  SEPHARDI  means a person who has sojourned in SAFRAD---approximately the IBERIAN PENNINSULA    Thus an ASHKENAZI is a person who derives from   the place where hebrew developed and is  so called because he was GONE FOR AWHILE  to the land of Ashkenaz     The islamo nazi dogs have no idea that when they use the word  ASHKENAZI to describe jews-----they are admitting that they are describing people who originated in PALESTINE         islamo nazis are that stupid.    For the record-----arabic was developed in arabia and stayed in arabia until the dogs emerged from the disease ridden tents to EMULATE AL NABI    by raping and murdering and enslaving and pillaging  -------and comitting genocide in the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS.....and counting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fortunately in your particular case, a formal argument is superfluous...merely reading the bitterness and sewage that spills from your tortured brain seems to say much, much more....
Click to expand...

Leaving aside your argument with iRosie, are you denying that the Arabs left the Saudi Peninsula and invaded the surrounding countries, forcing many to convert and killing countless others who refused.
History of Jihad against the Egyptian Coptic Christians (640)



jt2


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's always funny when another family loses a mother and daughter.
> Would it be even funnier if it were yours?
> FYI, my actions have never lead to the murder of a mother or a daughter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you know that because?
> One could easily argue that the now 64 year old Arab siege of Israel is at least in part fueled by the exhortations of fools ... well, fools just like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One could just as easily argue the 1948 plan to give one-third of the citizens of Mandate Palestine 55% of the land of Palestine began today's illegal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.
Click to expand...


Perhaps, but that doesn't change the fact that your exhortations may - and I believe you know this - fuel the hatred that leads to the murder of mothers, daughters and even grandmothers.


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you know that because?
> One could easily argue that the now 64 year old Arab siege of Israel is at least in part fueled by the exhortations of fools ... well, fools just like you.
> 
> 
> 
> One could just as easily argue the 1948 plan to give one-third of the citizens of Mandate Palestine 55% of the land of Palestine began today's illegal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perhaps, but that doesn't change the fact that your exhortations may - and I believe you know this - fuel the hatred that leads to the murder of mothers, daughters and even grandmothers.
Click to expand...

Most of us would probably learn a lot more if we scaled back our exhortations and prejudices while keeping in mind how hatred is enhanced when Justice is denied:

"B'Tselem challenged the decision and called for the reopening of the case for a full and thorough investigation.

"If the military prosecution accepted the claim brought by the soldier's lawyers, that *there is no connection between the shooting he admitted to, and the killing of the Palestinian mother and daughter*, this means that the investigation into this incident was never completed," the group said in a statement.

"B'Tselem demands that the Military Police investigation unit reopen the file."

Israeli Sniper Gets Only 45 Days for Killing of Two Women under White Flags | Common Dreams


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> One could just as easily argue the 1948 plan to give one-third of the citizens of Mandate Palestine 55% of the land of Palestine began today's illegal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps, but that doesn't change the fact that your exhortations may - and I believe you know this - fuel the hatred that leads to the murder of mothers, daughters and even grandmothers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most of us would probably learn a lot more if we scaled back our exhortations and prejudices ...
Click to expand...


True dat. For many of us the emotions run high.


----------



## Sundowner47

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI, Georgie, that soldier has suffered cruel and unusual punishment. IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> It's always funny when another family loses a mother and daughter.
> Would it be even funnier if it were yours?
> FYI, my actions have never lead to the murder of a mother or a daughter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you know that because?
> One could easily argue that the now 64 year old Arab siege of Israel is at least in part fueled by the exhortations of fools ... well, fools just like you.
Click to expand...



LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  OMG!!!!  "that the now 64 year old Arab siege of Israel"???  An ideal----ideal example of the inspired self-delusion of Jewish trash...this is akin to a bank robber complaining about the law-enforcement response to his crime...honestly you cannot invent this stuff....


----------



## Sundowner47

sayit said:


> lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> incorrect stupid...please allow me to explain the difference---and not to worry, i'll use small words so as to avoid confusion on your part: The arab palestinians have resided on these lands for 13 centuries, the ashkenazi trash for a little more than sixty years of criminal occupation....under normal circumstances determining which party has residency rights shouldn't be much of a stretch, but *the jews are a pack of committed liars and thieves who believe they can also occupy critical history*...hope this helps simpleton
> 
> 
> 
> 
> an argument which is based on antisemitism cannot hold.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> indeed they often start out ranting about "vile zionists" but it doesn't take 'em long to slip into their ss uniforms, click their heels, and slide into their "scurrilous jews" and "jews are committed liars and thieves" mode.
Click to expand...



you left out the part where this is proven not to be the case.....hahahaha


----------



## Sundowner47

For quite a while Israel was duly warned by both internal and external voices...indeed history itself posts a warning that carries the imprimatur of truth, yet for all of the dire forecasting the cultivated arrogance of the government can only see the next parcel of land to be stolen...the next set of illegal Jewish settlements...the next massive aid package from beleaguered U.S. taxpayers...the next calculated military incursion into Gaza. The Israeli arrogance is unfazed by the developments of the last decade or so: the diffusion of weapons technology that amounts to a wild-card in a game otherwise dictated by raw arsenals. The tiny terrorist state is loathed for decades of free reign across the region...for flouting any laws but those it invents to justify its criminality and wanton bloodlust...but the rules of domination are changing before our eyes. Israel's reliance on the deterrent of nukes only goes so far and then it hits a wall; given the relative size of Israel, it is hardly in an ideal position to introduce the nuke-card, for the destruction that follows would assuredly be mutual....hence it cannot abandon its criminal policies and it cannot advance a nuke threat that would not be suicide...the only hope is for the U.S. to send troops to fight and die for the Jewish crimes of more than a half century, but thanks to the internet, Israel's propaganda is coming undone also....what to do? what to do?


----------



## HenryBHough

Wow!

What else do the voices tell you?


----------



## Sundowner47

HenryBHough said:


> Wow!
> 
> What else do the voices tell you?



what a pity the 'voices" are those of the global majority....sniff...sniff


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjT6B6IFUU8]Rich Mans War by Steve Earle - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip

Sundowner47 said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's always funny when another family loses a mother and daughter.
> Would it be even funnier if it were yours?
> FYI, my actions have never lead to the murder of a mother or a daughter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you know that because?
> One could easily argue that the now 64 year old Arab siege of Israel is at least in part fueled by the exhortations of fools ... well, fools just like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  OMG!!!!  "that the now 64 year old Arab siege of Israel"???  An ideal----ideal example of the inspired self-delusion of Jewish trash...this is akin to a bank robber complaining about the law-enforcement response to his crime...honestly you cannot invent this stuff....
Click to expand...

Maybe the idea is to find a way to get beyond this stuff.
Uri Avnery's Pax Semitica, for example?

"SOME MONTHS before the outbreak of the Six-Day War, I met a high-ranking member of the Egyptian regime. The meeting took place in Paris through the auspices of a mutual friend. Throughout the years, I have met many leaders of the different Arab states, exchanging opinions and trading ideas for a settlement. But this meeting was different.

"At the outset, I said to my new-found friend: 'Let's make a list of all possible solutions to the Israeli-Arab conflict. Let's analyze every solution in turn and see where we get.'

"Taking a pen, we wrote the following list on the paper cloth on our table in the Paris restaurant:

"(A) Annihilation by war
(B) The destruction of Israel by political and economic isolation
(C) Status quo
(D) A Semitic federation."

*What's your choice?*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lipush said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> As you are to those who kill Jewish babies?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Come in, Lipush, you know I have never done that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just like Israel's supporters don't think killing Palestinian children is a good thing.
> 
> How that we settled THAT right, we're good to go.
Click to expand...


I don't cheer anyone's death. My goal is to end the conflict. I get a lot of flack for doing that.


----------



## psed007

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI, Georgie, that soldier has suffered cruel and unusual punishment. IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> It's always funny when another family loses a mother and daughter.
> Would it be even funnier if it were yours?
> FYI, my actions have never lead to the murder of a mother or a daughter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you know that because?
> One could easily argue that the now 64 year old Arab siege of Israel is at least in part fueled by the exhortations of fools ... well, fools just like you.
Click to expand...

I don't get this discussion ! Of course it is not funny to loose relatives ! Yes an Israeli did that ! He shouldn't ! Nobody should ! Not the jews, the arabs, the christians ... NOBODY ! On the other hand the arabs should not complain all the time ! The arabs kills more woman, children and men for nothing. They call it justification. The infidels must die !?!?! Killing own people in the name of g'd ??? Without any remorse ?!?! Then complaining about others ? Little confusing...


----------



## psed007

Guys, we are discussing about following fact: A lot of people supports the idea that the israelis should go and die in the red sea or where ever they want  and give back the land to palestinians ?!?! Great idea...but beware of the fact that this event will start the III world war. Another scenario is that the israelis admit they have nothing to do with the land because a book which was written approx. 2500 years later then the OT is right. They leave the country, leave everything behind even the nukes. They will be handed over to the palestinian leaders. Of course 40%, 40% the rest goes to whoever is paying for  Third scenario is that everybody accept the fact that israel is here ! The palestinians had enough time to establish an own state. They did not ! Every country was established in the same way !


----------



## Billo_Really

psed007 said:


> Guys, we are discussing about following fact: A lot of people supports the idea that the israelis should go and die in the red sea or where ever they want  and give back the land to palestinians ?!?! Great idea...but beware of the fact that this event will start the III world war. Another scenario is that the israelis admit they have nothing to do with the land because a book which was written approx. 2500 years later then the OT is right. They leave the country, leave everything behind even the nukes. They will be handed over to the palestinian leaders. Of course 40%, 40% the rest goes to whoever is paying for  Third scenario is that everybody accept the fact that israel is here ! The palestinians had enough time to establish an own state. They did not ! Every country was established in the same way !


A lot of people just want Israel to end the occupation and respect international law.


----------



## Lipush

Sundowner47 said:


> sayit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> an argument which is based on antisemitism cannot hold.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> indeed they often start out ranting about "vile zionists" but it doesn't take 'em long to slip into their ss uniforms, click their heels, and slide into their "scurrilous jews" and "jews are committed liars and thieves" mode.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> you left out the part where this is proven not to be the case.....hahahaha
Click to expand...


"Antisemitism for dummies" will not stand as a credible source.


----------



## Lipush

loinboy said:


> psed007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guys, we are discussing about following fact: A lot of people supports the idea that the israelis should go and die in the red sea or where ever they want  and give back the land to palestinians ?!?! Great idea...but beware of the fact that this event will start the III world war. Another scenario is that the israelis admit they have nothing to do with the land because a book which was written approx. 2500 years later then the OT is right. They leave the country, leave everything behind even the nukes. They will be handed over to the palestinian leaders. Of course 40%, 40% the rest goes to whoever is paying for  Third scenario is that everybody accept the fact that israel is here ! The palestinians had enough time to establish an own state. They did not ! Every country was established in the same way !
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of people just want Israel to end the occupation and respect international law.
Click to expand...


A lot of people start with -that- and end the sentence with "All Jews are thieves and immoral people who use their lobbies and lies to excuse their poor existence".

Like we never heard THAT one before.


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> A lot of people start with -that- and end the sentence with "All Jews are thieves and immoral people who use their lobbies and lies to excuse their poor existence".
> 
> Like we never heard THAT one before.


Well, you didn't hear it there, so why bring it up?


----------



## Saigon

loinboy said:


> !


A lot of people just want Israel to end the occupation and respect international law.[/QUOTE]

Exactly - our resident nutcases aside, no one on this board and few people outside want to see Israel harmed in any way. 

Support for Palestinian rights is not in any way anti-Israeli, no more so than being pro-Israeli is inherently anti-Palestinian.

I believe that Israel will be a stronger, safer and more stable and prosperous country when it shares land with a viable Palestinian state, and that is what I want to see.


----------



## Roudy

HenryBHough said:


> Wow!
> 
> What else do the voices tell you?


[ame=http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y]YouTube - Twilight Zone intro.[/ame]


----------



## Roudy

Saigon said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> !
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of people just want Israel to end the occupation and respect international law.
Click to expand...


Exactly - our resident nutcases aside, no one on this board and few people outside want to see Israel harmed in any way. 

Support for Palestinian rights is not in any way anti-Israeli, no more so than being pro-Israeli is inherently anti-Palestinian.

I believe that Israel will be a stronger, safer and more stable and prosperous country when it shares land with a viable Palestinian state, and that is what I want to see.[/QUOTE]

****Nah, you don't support the destruction of Israel, you just want Israel to agree to things that will bring about it's EVENTUAL destruction, and rapidly.

Same shit.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the Armistice Agreements, the ceasefire lines are defined as follows:
> 
> 5(2). In no sense are the cease-fire lines to be interpreted as political or territorial borders and their delineation in no way affects the rights, demands or positions of any of the parties to the cease-fire agreements regarding the final disposition of the Palestine question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's Borders After 1948 War
> 
> 
> 
> Where's Palestine in this map? 10 miles west of Gaza?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions as surveyed in March 1949 by United Nations observers,...
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How about just west of Jordan?
Click to expand...

Palestine included Jordan. Under the British mandate Jordan was "Arab Palestine" and Israel was "Jewish Palestine". The Arabs who started calling themselves Palestinians as of 1967 got their state already, it's called Jordan.


----------



## Saigon

Roudy said:


> The Arabs who started calling themselves Palestinians as of 1967



Um....I'm going to let you correct this one yourself, Roudy.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where's Palestine in this map? 10 miles west of Gaza?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions as surveyed in March 1949 by United Nations observers,...
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How about just west of Jordan?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine included Jordan. Under the British mandate Jordan was "Arab Palestine" and Israel was "Jewish Palestine". The Arabs who started calling themselves Palestinians as of 1967 got their state already, it's called Jordan.
Click to expand...


Indeed, Britain violated the League of Nations Covenant and international law.


----------



## psed007

loinboy said:


> psed007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guys, we are discussing about following fact: A lot of people supports the idea that the israelis should go and die in the red sea or where ever they want  and give back the land to palestinians ?!?! Great idea...but beware of the fact that this event will start the III world war. Another scenario is that the israelis admit they have nothing to do with the land because a book which was written approx. 2500 years later then the OT is right. They leave the country, leave everything behind even the nukes. They will be handed over to the palestinian leaders. Of course 40%, 40% the rest goes to whoever is paying for  Third scenario is that everybody accept the fact that israel is here ! The palestinians had enough time to establish an own state. They did not ! Every country was established in the same way !
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of people just want Israel to end the occupation and respect international law.
Click to expand...

International law ? Since when the modern palestinians respect international law ? They don't give a f. They want to be treated in a democratic way, but after that they want to destroy democratic structures so they criminal mind can take over and rule with terror about their own people.


----------



## P F Tinmore

psed007 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> psed007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guys, we are discussing about following fact: A lot of people supports the idea that the israelis should go and die in the red sea or where ever they want  and give back the land to palestinians ?!?! Great idea...but beware of the fact that this event will start the III world war. Another scenario is that the israelis admit they have nothing to do with the land because a book which was written approx. 2500 years later then the OT is right. They leave the country, leave everything behind even the nukes. They will be handed over to the palestinian leaders. Of course 40%, 40% the rest goes to whoever is paying for  Third scenario is that everybody accept the fact that israel is here ! The palestinians had enough time to establish an own state. They did not ! Every country was established in the same way !
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of people just want Israel to end the occupation and respect international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> International law ? Since when the modern palestinians respect international law ? They don't give a f. They want to be treated in a democratic way, but after that they want to destroy democratic structures so they criminal mind can take over and rule with terror about their own people.
Click to expand...


Please clarify your position.


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> psed007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> _A lot of people just want Israel to end the occupation and respect international law._
> 
> 
> 
> _International law ? Since when the modern palestinians respect international law ? They don't give a f. They want to be treated in a democratic way, but after that they want to destroy democratic structures so they criminal mind can take over and rule with terror about their own people._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Please clarify your position._
Click to expand...

Palistanians are hypocrites, of course.


----------



## georgephillip

psed007 said:


> Guys, we are discussing about following fact: A lot of people supports the idea that the israelis should go and die in the red sea or where ever they want  and give back the land to palestinians ?!?! Great idea...but beware of the fact that this event will start the III world war. Another scenario is that the israelis admit they have nothing to do with the land because a book which was written approx. 2500 years later then the OT is right. They leave the country, leave everything behind even the nukes. They will be handed over to the palestinian leaders. Of course 40%, 40% the rest goes to whoever is paying for  Third scenario is that everybody accept the fact that israel is here ! The palestinians had enough time to establish an own state. They did not ! Every country was established in the same way !


Here's a relatively simple solution that's been around longer than the Jewish State:

"Joining a great Semitic confederacy would mean, for Israel, putting an end to the Zionist chapter in its history and starting a new one*the chapter of Israel as a state integrated in its Region*, playing a part in the Region's struggle for progress and unity.

"For the Arabs it would mean recognition of a post-Zionist Israel as a part of the Region, a part which could and should not be abolished because, in its new form, it is a factor in the struggle for the common good.

"Let me be quite clear about this. A lot of nonsense has been written about solutions which do not recognize the existence of Israel as a sovereign state. Not one single Israeli, and certainly not I, would ever agree to any such solution. 

"The existence of Israel as a sovereign state is the point of departure for any solution, as much as the rights and the aspirations of the Palestinian nation and any other Arab people.

"Semitic Union not only provides a framework for mutual acceptance, but has many other advantages..."

Pax Semitica by Uri Avnery


----------



## Liability

The fucking hypocritical obvious troll asswipes are the ones who put RIGHT TO EXIST in quotes and ask it AS if it were a question when it comes to Israel.


----------



## Billo_Really

psed007 said:


> International law ? Since when the modern palestinians respect international law ? They don't give a f. They want to be treated in a democratic way, but after that they want to destroy democratic structures so they criminal mind can take over and rule with terror about their own people.


Really?  Then why is it Israel (not the Pals), who is in violation of over 200 UN resolutions?


----------



## georgephillip

Liability said:


> The fucking hypocritical obvious troll asswipes are the ones who put RIGHT TO EXIST in quotes and ask it AS if it were a question when it comes to Israel.


What "borders" does Israel have the "right to exist" within?


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _"Joining a great Semitic confederacy would mean, for Israel, putting an end to the Zionist chapter in its history and starting a new one - the chapter of Israel as a state integrated in its Region, playing a part in the Region's struggle for progress and unity."_


When the US becomes a confed member under the UN Banki Moon leadership, then we will talk, of course. Avnery is a funny senile asshole, indeed.


----------



## ima

Liability said:


> The fucking hypocritical obvious troll asswipes are the ones who put RIGHT TO EXIST in quotes and ask it AS if it were a question when it comes to Israel.



Does any nation have a "right to exist"? It's a strange concept. 

Certainly, Jews and anyone else has a right to exist, but arbitrary land mass delineations have rights?


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _What "borders" does Israel have the "right to exist" within?_


The borders, defined in the treaties with Jordan and Egypt, of course. The border with Lebanon, demarkated by the UN cartographers. Who cares about Syria, anyway. So simple.


----------



## Lipush

georgephillip said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fucking hypocritical obvious troll asswipes are the ones who put RIGHT TO EXIST in quotes and ask it AS if it were a question when it comes to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> What "borders" does Israel have the "right to exist" within?
Click to expand...


The borders of historic Israel.


----------



## JakeMeadows

The modern history of Israel's right to exist.  Although I could go back the Jacob and his sons I will stick with the modern history for a moment.

Following the adoption of a resolution by the General Assembly of the United Nations on 29 November 1947, recommending the adoption and implementation of the United Nations partition plan of Mandatory Palestine, on 14 May 1948 David Ben-Gurion, the Executive Head of the World Zionist Organization and president of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, declared the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz Israel, to be known as the State of Israel, a state independent upon the termination of the British Mandate for Palestine, 15th May, 1948. Neighboring Arab states invaded the next day in support of the Palestinian Arabs. Israel has since fought several wars with neighboring Arab states, in the course of which it has occupied the West Bank, Sinai Peninsula (between 1967-1982), Gaza Strip and the Golan Heights. Portions of these territories, including east Jerusalem, have been annexed by Israel, but the border with the neighboring West Bank has not yet been permanently defined. 

In short a world body known as the United Nations gave Israel the right to exist in modern times but the record clearly shows a Jewish state going back to to the time Jacob and his sons.  1030 BCE. - The tribes settled in the land of Israel. Saul became the first king of the Israelites in approximately 1020 BCE. David succeeded him in 1006 BCE, and moved the capital from Hebron to Jerusalem.   By the way Jacob's name was changed to Israel and thus we have the name of this country you do not want to exist.


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fucking hypocritical obvious troll asswipes are the ones who put RIGHT TO EXIST in quotes and ask it AS if it were a question when it comes to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> What "borders" does Israel have the "right to exist" within?
Click to expand...

The borders of Asia and that's all you need to know.


----------



## SAYIT

loinboy said:


> psed007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> International law ? Since when the modern palestinians respect international law ? They don't give a f. They want to be treated in a democratic way, but after that they want to destroy democratic structures so they criminal mind can take over and rule with terror about their own people.
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Then why is it Israel (not the Pals), who is in violation of over 200 UN resolutions?
Click to expand...


Un Gen Ass resolutions are not "international law," Princess. They are non-binding and represent the whining and sniveling and braying of that once august international body which has seen it's Islamic and Third World (read: anti-American and anti-Israel) membership swell to majority proportions. Ironically, it is the tyranny of that Islamic/Third World majority that has reduced the Gen Ass resolutions to, well, Gen Ass. In the US we have protections for minorities. Unfortunately, the UN has no such protections and, in fact, wallows in its inequities:
World Conference against Racism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"Joining a great Semitic confederacy would mean, for Israel, putting an end to the Zionist chapter in its history and starting a new one - the chapter of Israel as a state integrated in its Region, playing a part in the Region's struggle for progress and unity."_
> 
> 
> 
> When the US becomes a confed member under the UN Banki Moon leadership, then we will talk, of course. Avnery is a funny senile asshole, indeed.
Click to expand...

Surely, you're not confusing the Zionist State with a continental superpower?
Which part of *liberation* scares you most, drivel?

"3 Economically, the potential advantages (of a Semitic Union) are enormous. For Israel, it would mean the end of Arab boycotts and the integration of its economy into the Region. For the Arabs it would mean the possibility of meaningful Regional planning, *a Semitic common market* which would harness the immense wealth of Arab oil to the cause of progress and industrialization of the Arab peoples, especially Egypt.

"4. A united Region, *liberated from fear and foreign exploitation*, could start at long last a rapid march toward the modernization of the whole Region, restoring it to the place it held both in ancient and Islamic times."

Pax Semitica by Uri Avnery


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _What "borders" does Israel have the "right to exist" within?_
> 
> 
> 
> The borders, defined in the treaties with Jordan and Egypt, of course. The border with Lebanon, demarkated by the UN cartographers. Who cares about Syria, anyway. So simple.
Click to expand...

*Where does the Jordan River fit in?*

"Israel's borders with Egypt and Jordan have now been formally recognised as part of the peace treaties with those countries[citation needed], and with Lebanon as part of the 1949 Armistice Agreement. 

"*The borders with Syria and the Palestinian territories are still in dispute*. 

"Israel's borders with the West Bank and Gaza Strip are currently the Green Line, except in East Jerusalem, and the ceasefire line with Syria runs along the UN-monitored boundary between the Golan Heights and Syrian controlled territory."

Borders of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## georgephillip

Lipush said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fucking hypocritical obvious troll asswipes are the ones who put RIGHT TO EXIST in quotes and ask it AS if it were a question when it comes to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> What "borders" does Israel have the "right to exist" within?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The borders of historic Israel.
Click to expand...

"The Land of Israel"?

*"Southern and eastern borders*

"Only the 'Red Sea' (Exodus 23:31) and the Euphrates are mentioned to define the southern and eastern borders of the full land promised to the Israelites. The 'Red Sea' corresponding to Hebrew Yam Suf was understood in ancient times to be the Erythraean Sea, as reflected in the Septuagint translation. 

"Although the English name 'Red Sea' is derived from this name ('Erythraean' derives from the Greek for red), the term denoted all the waters surrounding Arabiaincluding the Indian Ocean and the Persian Gulf, not merely the sea lying to the west of Arabia bearing this name in modern English. 

*"Thus the entire Arabian peninsula lies within the borders described."* 

Land of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"Joining a great Semitic confederacy would mean, for Israel, putting an end to the Zionist chapter in its history and starting a new one - the chapter of Israel as a state integrated in its Region, playing a part in the Region's struggle for progress and unity."_
> 
> 
> 
> When the US becomes a confed member under the UN Banki Moon leadership, then we will talk, of course. Avnery is a funny senile asshole, indeed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Surely, you're not confusing the Zionist State with a continental superpower?
> Which part of *liberation* scares you most, drivel?
> 
> "3 Economically, the potential advantages (of a Semitic Union) are enormous. For Israel, it would mean the end of Arab boycotts and the integration of its economy into the Region. For the Arabs it would mean the possibility of meaningful Regional planning, *a Semitic common market* which would harness the immense wealth of Arab oil to the cause of progress and industrialization of the Arab peoples, especially Egypt.
> 
> "4. A united Region, *liberated from fear and foreign exploitation*, could start at long last a rapid march toward the modernization of the whole Region, restoring it to the place it held both in ancient and Islamic times."
> 
> Pax Semitica by Uri Avnery
Click to expand...


There seems to be much to admire about Avnery and more than a little at which to laugh.
He dreams of a Hebrew Nation as opposed to a Jewish Homeland ... basically a secular state bound by its language and confederated with the surrounding Arab states.
A bit of a dreamer, he also wrote in Poisoning Arafat: "For me, there was no surprise. From the very first day, I was convinced that Yasser Arafat had been poisoned by Ariel Sharon. I even wrote about it several times. It was a simple logical conclusion."
Yeah ... for a man with some loose screws.


----------



## Billo_Really

SAYIT said:


> Un Gen Ass resolutions are not "international law," Princess. They are non-binding and represent the whining and sniveling and braying of that once august international body which has seen it's Islamic and Third World (read: anti-American and anti-Israel) membership swell to majority proportions. Ironically, it is the tyranny of that Islamic/Third World majority that has reduced the Gen Ass resolutions to, well, Gen Ass. In the US we have protections for minorities. Unfortunately, the UN has no such protections and, in fact, wallows in its inequities:
> World Conference against Racism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


They represent the concience of the world and the spirit of the UN principles.

Since Israel is a member nation, they are duty bound to honor its Charter.


----------



## SAYIT

loinboy said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> personally, i think the demand of a "recognition of the right exist" is different than the actual "right to exist" itself, which was what my original question was about, and something no one seems able to explain, opting istead to repeat over and over again, sometimes in what seems like a histrionic frenzy, that israel has one, which i never denied nor affirmed.
> 
> i think israel's demand of of the palestinian negotiater's explicit recognition of israel's right to exist is a stalling tactic used to prevent negotion, as well as to interject some sort of israeli dominance into the process. christ, the palestinians are at the table and that is an implicit recognition of israel's right to exist. there is no need to formalise it. that can be done after the negotiations.
> 
> and also, and for what it is worth, the arab league, which includes palestine, has recognised israel in the offer of a peace initiative.
> 
> lol...i'm not yelling at you. i'm just frustrated. i agree with you that both sides need to enter any negotiations on an equal basis.
> 
> i guess this "right to exist" thing is just out there with no rule, rhyme, reason or condition.
> 
> 
> 
> I think this whole "right to exist" thing is a moot point.  They exist already.  They're there.  Israel exists and there isn't a single country in the ME that can do anything about it.  So why all this talk about their right to exist when they're already there?
Click to expand...


True dat and the real point is not just why some need to continually post on the subject (as though it is a valid subject) but the right of those who actively work for Israel's demise. Those who claim Israel has a right to exist do so in response to the pinheads who whine that she doesn't.
Israel exists because it exists and the complaints of those who deny her right to exist has been answered ... nevertheless the complainants will persist.


----------



## Billo_Really

SAYIT said:


> True dat and the real point is not just why some need to continually post on the subject (as though it is a valid subject) but the right of those who actively work for Israel's demise. Those who claim Israel has a right to exist do so in response to the pinheads who whine that she doesn't.
> Israel exists because it exists and the complaints of those who deny her right to exist has been answered ... nevertheless the complainants will persist.


Hell must be freezing over because I think we've finally agreed on something.


----------



## SAYIT

loinboy said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> UN Gen Ass resolutions are not "international law," Princess. They are non-binding and represent the whining and sniveling and braying of that once august international body which has seen it's Islamic and Third World (read: anti-American and anti-Israel) membership swell to majority proportions. Ironically, it is the tyranny of that Islamic/Third World majority that has reduced the Gen Ass resolutions to, well, Gen Ass. In the US we have protections for minorities. Unfortunately, the UN has no such protections and, in fact, wallows in its inequities:
> World Conference against Racism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> They represent the concience of the world and the spirit of the UN principles.
> 
> Since Israel is a member nation, they are duty bound to honor its Charter.
Click to expand...


Camel crap. They represent the tyranny of a soulless majority to whom the rights of the minority are of no significance. Gen Ass resolutions neither represent nor comply with the UN Charter.
America's founding fathers, in their inifite wisdom, chose to establish checks and balances - both a Senate and a House of Representatives - and wrote our constitution in recognition of the tyranny of the majority.
The UN's founders used that template, I suspect, for the same reason.
Both have proven to have been very wise.


----------



## Billo_Really

SAYIT said:


> Camel crap. They represent the tyranny of a soulless majority to whom the rights of the minority are of no significance. Gen Ass resolutions neither represent nor comply with the UN Charter.
> America's founding fathers, in their inifite wisdom, chose to establish checks and balances - both a Senate and a House of Representatives - and wrote our constitution in recognition of the tyranny of the majority.
> The UN's founders used that template, I suspect, for the same reason.
> Both have proven to have been very wise.


Name one that doesn't.


----------



## SAYIT

loinboy said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> True dat and the real point is not just why some need to continually post on the subject (as though it is a valid subject) but the right of those who actively work for Israel's demise. Those who claim Israel has a right to exist do so in response to the pinheads who whine that she doesn't.
> Israel exists because it exists and the complaints of those who deny her right to exist has been answered ... nevertheless the complainants will persist.
> 
> 
> 
> Hell must be freezing over because I think we've finally agreed on something.
Click to expand...


You will find my initial response (and a few others) to Seal's baiting say what you concluded in your post: Israel exists because the Israelis say it does and because most of the international community recognizes that existence.


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> When the US becomes a confed member under the UN Banki Moon leadership, then we will talk, of course. Avnery is a funny senile asshole, indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> Surely, you're not confusing the Zionist State with a continental superpower?
> Which part of *liberation* scares you most, drivel?
> 
> "3 Economically, the potential advantages (of a Semitic Union) are enormous. For Israel, it would mean the end of Arab boycotts and the integration of its economy into the Region. For the Arabs it would mean the possibility of meaningful Regional planning, *a Semitic common market* which would harness the immense wealth of Arab oil to the cause of progress and industrialization of the Arab peoples, especially Egypt.
> 
> "4. A united Region, *liberated from fear and foreign exploitation*, could start at long last a rapid march toward the modernization of the whole Region, restoring it to the place it held both in ancient and Islamic times."
> 
> Pax Semitica by Uri Avnery
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There seems to be much to admire about Avnery and more than a little at which to laugh.
> He dreams of a Hebrew Nation as opposed to a Jewish Homeland ... basically a secular state bound by its language and confederated with the surrounding Arab states.
> A bit of a dreamer, he also wrote in Poisoning Arafat: "For me, there was no surprise. From the very first day, I was convinced that Yasser Arafat had been poisoned by Ariel Sharon. I even wrote about it several times. It was a simple logical conclusion."
> Yeah ... for a man with some loose screws.
Click to expand...

*Avnery provides a few nuts and bolts for his belief:* 

"Second, we know by now that several secret services possess poisons that leave no routinely detectable trace. These include the CIA, the Russian FSB (successor of the KGB), and the Mossad.

"Third, opportunities were plentiful. Arafat&#8217;s security arrangements were decidedly lax. He would embrace perfect strangers who presented themselves as sympathizers of the Palestinian cause and often seated them next to himself at meals.

"Fourth, there were plenty of people who aimed at killing him and had the means to do so. The most obvious one was our prime minister, Ariel Sharon. He had even talked about Arafat having 'no insurance policy' in 2004."

Poisoning Arafat » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

There were many prominent Jews who believed the creation of a Jewish State in 1948 was a big mistake. Avnery's notion of a Semitic common market that would marry Jewish ingenuity with the immense wealth of Arab oil seems like a big improvement over what Bibi and Barack have to offer.


----------



## abu afak

"The Right to exist" is a response to those who have continued to say it doesn't.
Nothing more. 

Check a political map of the globe in 1900 and then in 2000.
There are probably 100 New countries.
Rights?

'Iraq' was 3 provinces of the Ottoman Empire, but clumped together and given by the British as Spoils to a Saudi Prince, Faisal. Forever ceding the 'Rights' of the Kurdish People for a State. (And Unlike Palestinians, a Larger and True people of separate Ethnicity, Language, Culture).

'Jordan', 77% of the British Mandate, the same. (given to a Saudi Hashemite Priince, Abdullah) Split off in contravention of the Brit and League of Nations Predecessor to the Jews for a larger state. No Jews allowed.

Lebanon was Gerrymandered out of the French Mandate to have a Christian Majority and Government.

Of course, only the Jewish State remains an issue due mainly to its hostile and bigoted neighbors. Ironic too because Israel, Unlike the above-mentioned neighbors ("Whim states") was voted on by the UN. 
The Partition Vote created an Israel AND a Palestine.
Jews accepted. 
Arabs rejected.
Thus Israel and No Palestine.

After the 1948 War, Arabs could have still Had a Palestine but Jordan ANNEXED the West Bank and Egypt Ruled Gaza. Arabs never accepted Israel, NOR a separate 'Palestine' until they lost the 1967 War. Then King Hussein 'gave' it to the 'Palestinians'.
Had Arabs won the 1967 war there probably wouldn't even be a Push for a Palestinian state, just the larger neighbors dividing up the spoils after bulldozing the Jews into the Sea.

So 'Right to Exist' remains a phrase in use re Israel because of unaccepting Neighbors.

I hope that helps because the vast majority here seem completely clueless on circumstance/history.
-


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Surely, you're not confusing the Zionist State with a continental superpower?
> Which part of *liberation* scares you most, drivel?
> 
> "3 Economically, the potential advantages (of a Semitic Union) are enormous. For Israel, it would mean the end of Arab boycotts and the integration of its economy into the Region. For the Arabs it would mean the possibility of meaningful Regional planning, *a Semitic common market* which would harness the immense wealth of Arab oil to the cause of progress and industrialization of the Arab peoples, especially Egypt.
> 
> "4. A united Region, *liberated from fear and foreign exploitation*, could start at long last a rapid march toward the modernization of the whole Region, restoring it to the place it held both in ancient and Islamic times."
> 
> Pax Semitica by Uri Avnery
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There seems to be much to admire about Avnery and more than a little at which to laugh.
> He dreams of a Hebrew Nation as opposed to a Jewish Homeland ... basically a secular state bound by its language and confederated with the surrounding Arab states.
> A bit of a dreamer, he also wrote in Poisoning Arafat: "For me, there was no surprise. From the very first day, I was convinced that Yasser Arafat had been poisoned by Ariel Sharon. I even wrote about it several times. It was a simple logical conclusion."
> Yeah ... for a man with some loose screws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Avnery provides a few nuts and bolts for his belief:*
> 
> "Second, we know by now that several secret services possess poisons that leave no routinely detectable trace. These include the CIA, the Russian FSB (successor of the KGB), and the Mossad.
> 
> "Third, opportunities were plentiful. Arafats security arrangements were decidedly lax. He would embrace perfect strangers who presented themselves as sympathizers of the Palestinian cause and often seated them next to himself at meals.
> 
> "Fourth, there were plenty of people who aimed at killing him and had the means to do so. The most obvious one was our prime minister, Ariel Sharon. He had even talked about Arafat having 'no insurance policy' in 2004."
> 
> Poisoning Arafat » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names
> 
> There were many prominent Jews who believed the creation of a Jewish State in 1948 was a big mistake. Avnery's notion of a Semitic common market that would marry Jewish ingenuity with the immense wealth of Arab oil seems like a big improvement over what Bibi and Barack have to offer.
Click to expand...


I see. 
The existence of undectable poisons and the possibility - according to the author of that opinion piece - that Arafart's security was lax means there is only one possibility ... Israel did it.
Evidently your screws are as loose as Avnery's.
Case closed.


----------



## georgephillip

abu afak said:


> "The Right to exist" is a response to those who have continued to say it doesn't.
> Nothing more.
> 
> Check a political map of the globe in 1900 and then in 2000.
> There are probably 100 New countries.
> Rights?
> 
> 'Iraq' was 3 provinces of the Ottoman Empire, but clumped together and given by the British as Spoils to a Saudi Prince, Faisal. Forever ceding the 'Rights' of the Kurdish People for a State. (And Unlike Palestinians, a Larger and True people of separate Ethnicity, Language, Culture).
> 
> 'Jordan', 77% of the British Mandate, the same. (given to a Saudi Hashemite Priince, Abdullah) Split off in contravention of the Brit and League of Nations Predecessor to the Jews for a larger state. No Jews allowed.
> 
> Lebanon was Gerrymandered out of the French Mandate to have a Christian Majority and Government.
> 
> Of course, only the Jewish State remains an issue due mainly to its hostile and bigoted neighbors. Ironic too because Israel, Unlike the above-mentioned neighbors ("Whim states") was voted on by the UN.
> The Partition Vote created an Israel AND a Palestine.
> Jews accepted.
> Arabs rejected.
> Thus Israel and No Palestine.
> 
> After the 1948 War, Arabs could have still Had a Palestine but Jordan ANNEXED the West Bank and Egypt Ruled Gaza. Arabs never accepted Israel, NOR a separate 'Palestine' until they lost the 1967 War. Then King Hussein 'gave' it to the 'Palestinians'.
> Had Arabs won the 1967 war there probably wouldn't even be a Push for a Palestinian state, just the larger neighbors dividing up the spoils after bulldozing the Jews into the Sea.
> 
> So 'Right to Exist' remains a phrase in use re Israel because of unaccepting Neighbors.
> 
> I hope that helps because the vast majority here seem completely clueless on circumstance/history.
> -


Saying Israel "has a right to exist" without specifying "Israel's" borders is pretty clueless.

Do you consider Area C a part of Israel?

If so, what's your argument against Theodor Meron, Israel's foreign ministry's legal adviser in 1967, explicit warning to his government against settling civilians in the newly occupied territories?


----------



## P F Tinmore

georgephillip said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The Right to exist" is a response to those who have continued to say it doesn't.
> Nothing more.
> 
> Check a political map of the globe in 1900 and then in 2000.
> There are probably 100 New countries.
> Rights?
> 
> 'Iraq' was 3 provinces of the Ottoman Empire, but clumped together and given by the British as Spoils to a Saudi Prince, Faisal. Forever ceding the 'Rights' of the Kurdish People for a State. (And Unlike Palestinians, a Larger and True people of separate Ethnicity, Language, Culture).
> 
> 'Jordan', 77% of the British Mandate, the same. (given to a Saudi Hashemite Priince, Abdullah) Split off in contravention of the Brit and League of Nations Predecessor to the Jews for a larger state. No Jews allowed.
> 
> Lebanon was Gerrymandered out of the French Mandate to have a Christian Majority and Government.
> 
> Of course, only the Jewish State remains an issue due mainly to its hostile and bigoted neighbors. Ironic too because Israel, Unlike the above-mentioned neighbors ("Whim states") was voted on by the UN.
> The Partition Vote created an Israel AND a Palestine.
> Jews accepted.
> Arabs rejected.
> Thus Israel and No Palestine.
> 
> After the 1948 War, Arabs could have still Had a Palestine but Jordan ANNEXED the West Bank and Egypt Ruled Gaza. Arabs never accepted Israel, NOR a separate 'Palestine' until they lost the 1967 War. Then King Hussein 'gave' it to the 'Palestinians'.
> Had Arabs won the 1967 war there probably wouldn't even be a Push for a Palestinian state, just the larger neighbors dividing up the spoils after bulldozing the Jews into the Sea.
> 
> So 'Right to Exist' remains a phrase in use re Israel because of unaccepting Neighbors.
> 
> I hope that helps because the vast majority here seem completely clueless on circumstance/history.
> -
> 
> 
> 
> Saying Israel "has a right to exist" without specifying "Israel's" borders is pretty clueless.
> 
> Do you consider Area C a part of Israel?
> 
> If so, what's your argument against Theodor Meron, Israel's foreign ministry's legal adviser in 1967, explicit warning to his government against settling civilians in the newly occupied territories?
Click to expand...


Good point. How can Israel have a right to exist when it legally exists no place.


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The Right to exist" is a response to those who have continued to say it doesn't.
> Nothing more.
> 
> Check a political map of the globe in 1900 and then in 2000.
> There are probably 100 New countries.
> Rights?
> 
> 'Iraq' was 3 provinces of the Ottoman Empire, but clumped together and given by the British as Spoils to a Saudi Prince, Faisal. Forever ceding the 'Rights' of the Kurdish People for a State. (And Unlike Palestinians, a Larger and True people of separate Ethnicity, Language, Culture).
> 
> 'Jordan', 77% of the British Mandate, the same. (given to a Saudi Hashemite Priince, Abdullah) Split off in contravention of the Brit and League of Nations Predecessor to the Jews for a larger state. No Jews allowed.
> 
> Lebanon was Gerrymandered out of the French Mandate to have a Christian Majority and Government.
> 
> Of course, only the Jewish State remains an issue due mainly to its hostile and bigoted neighbors. Ironic too because Israel, Unlike the above-mentioned neighbors ("Whim states") was voted on by the UN.
> The Partition Vote created an Israel AND a Palestine.
> Jews accepted.
> Arabs rejected.
> Thus Israel and No Palestine.
> 
> After the 1948 War, Arabs could have still Had a Palestine but Jordan ANNEXED the West Bank and Egypt Ruled Gaza. Arabs never accepted Israel, NOR a separate 'Palestine' until they lost the 1967 War. Then King Hussein 'gave' it to the 'Palestinians'.
> Had Arabs won the 1967 war there probably wouldn't even be a Push for a Palestinian state, just the larger neighbors dividing up the spoils after bulldozing the Jews into the Sea.
> 
> So 'Right to Exist' remains a phrase in use re Israel because of unaccepting Neighbors.
> 
> I hope that helps because the vast majority here seem completely clueless on circumstance/history.
> -
> 
> 
> 
> Saying Israel "has a right to exist" without specifying "Israel's" borders is pretty clueless.
> 
> Do you consider Area C a part of Israel?
> 
> If so, what's your argument against Theodor Meron, Israel's foreign ministry's legal adviser in 1967, explicit warning to his government against settling civilians in the newly occupied territories?
Click to expand...

Well, you may recall the Arabs followed up their 1967 6-day humiliation with a total rejection of peace: No recognition, No negotiation, No peace. Additionally both Egypt and Jordan declined to continue their administration of Gaza and the WB, respectively. Israel, at that moment, had every right to annex but not only did not, they refrained from any settlement building for 4 years, hoping against hope the Arabs would come to their senses.


----------



## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The Right to exist" is a response to those who have continued to say it doesn't.
> Nothing more.
> 
> Check a political map of the globe in 1900 and then in 2000.
> There are probably 100 New countries.
> Rights?
> 
> 'Iraq' was 3 provinces of the Ottoman Empire, but clumped together and given by the British as Spoils to a Saudi Prince, Faisal. Forever ceding the 'Rights' of the Kurdish People for a State. (And Unlike Palestinians, a Larger and True people of separate Ethnicity, Language, Culture).
> 
> 'Jordan', 77% of the British Mandate, the same. (given to a Saudi Hashemite Priince, Abdullah) Split off in contravention of the Brit and League of Nations Predecessor to the Jews for a larger state. No Jews allowed.
> 
> Lebanon was Gerrymandered out of the French Mandate to have a Christian Majority and Government.
> 
> Of course, only the Jewish State remains an issue due mainly to its hostile and bigoted neighbors. Ironic too because Israel, Unlike the above-mentioned neighbors ("Whim states") was voted on by the UN.
> The Partition Vote created an Israel AND a Palestine.
> Jews accepted.
> Arabs rejected.
> Thus Israel and No Palestine.
> 
> After the 1948 War, Arabs could have still Had a Palestine but Jordan ANNEXED the West Bank and Egypt Ruled Gaza. Arabs never accepted Israel, NOR a separate 'Palestine' until they lost the 1967 War. Then King Hussein 'gave' it to the 'Palestinians'.
> Had Arabs won the 1967 war there probably wouldn't even be a Push for a Palestinian state, just the larger neighbors dividing up the spoils after bulldozing the Jews into the Sea.
> 
> So 'Right to Exist' remains a phrase in use re Israel because of unaccepting Neighbors.
> 
> I hope that helps because the vast majority here seem completely clueless on circumstance/history.
> -
> 
> 
> 
> Saying Israel "has a right to exist" without specifying "Israel's" borders is pretty clueless.
> 
> Do you consider Area C a part of Israel?
> 
> If so, what's your argument against Theodor Meron, Israel's foreign ministry's legal adviser in 1967, explicit warning to his government against settling civilians in the newly occupied territories?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good point. How can Israel have a right to exist when it legally exists no place.
Click to expand...


Sure it does and allow me to suggest that you and GP put on your camos and kafiyahs and try slipping across any of Israel's borders.


----------



## P F Tinmore

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Saying Israel "has a right to exist" without specifying "Israel's" borders is pretty clueless.
> 
> Do you consider Area C a part of Israel?
> 
> If so, what's your argument against Theodor Meron, Israel's foreign ministry's legal adviser in 1967, explicit warning to his government against settling civilians in the newly occupied territories?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good point. How can Israel have a right to exist when it legally exists no place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure it does and allow me to suggest that you and GP put on your camos and kafiyahs and try slipping across any of Israel's borders.
Click to expand...


Just because Israel has its fat ass parked somewhere with a gun does not mean there is a border there.


----------



## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good point. How can Israel have a right to exist when it legally exists no place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure it does and allow me to suggest that you and GP put on your camos and kafiyahs and try slipping across any of Israel's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just because Israel has its fat ass parked somewhere with a gun does not mean there is a border there.
Click to expand...


Does that mean you won't be wrapping _your_ fat ass in a kafiyah and attempting to cross one of Israel's borders?


----------



## P F Tinmore

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure it does and allow me to suggest that you and GP put on your camos and kafiyahs and try slipping across any of Israel's borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just because Israel has its fat ass parked somewhere with a gun does not mean there is a border there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does that mean you won't be wrapping _your_ fat ass in a kafiyah and attempting to cross one of Israel's borders?
Click to expand...


No problem. Israel has no borders.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just because Israel has its fat ass parked somewhere with a gun does not mean there is a border there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does that mean you won't be wrapping _your_ fat ass in a kafiyah and attempting to cross one of Israel's borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No problem. Israel has no borders.
Click to expand...

Does Israel really need borders, Porky?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does that mean you won't be wrapping _your_ fat ass in a kafiyah and attempting to cross one of Israel's borders?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No problem. Israel has no borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does Israel really need borders, Porky?
Click to expand...


Owning land automatically produces borders. Israel has no borders because it has no land.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No problem. Israel has no borders.
> 
> 
> 
> Does Israel really need borders, Porky?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Owning land automatically produces borders. Israel has no borders because it has no land.
Click to expand...

You should sue to get your money back. Someone's been feeding you a line of BS.


----------



## abu afak

georgephillip said:


> ...
> Saying Israel "has a right to exist" without specifying "Israel's" borders is pretty clueless.


No. That statement is clueless.
My background/history showing why still stands.
Just because there is additional territory in play because of War, it doesn't affect 'Right to exist' nor the legitimacy of the state.
Chechens claim an independent state, as other Republics got. Is Russia Illegitimate?

Japan/China/Philppines are all fighting over some Islands. This doesn't make the any less legitimate.

Clearly one of us understands the issue while you are just protesting.


As to the 'Occupied' (aka "Disputed') territories....
Israel won most of the current problem area in the 1967 War. (tho some in '48).
*Israel immediately OFFERED BACK the 1967 Land in exchange for mere Recognition by the Arab States. The Arabs REFUSED with the famous "three Nos at the Khartoum Conference in August '67. (Google if you please)
Only thus "Occupation".*
Some like to portray it as a Land grab, but Israel was Clueless what to do, and only gradually fell into settling it.

Not that Israel wasn't entitled to some buffer according to Res 242 which did NOT call for Complete withdrawal but for new Negotiated "secrure and recognized borders. Always Anticipating they would have a small buffer.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/israe...t-does-not-mean-withdrawal-to-1967-lines.html 
But...



			
				GP said:
			
		

> Do you consider Area C a part of Israel?


NO, Not area C.
242 foresaw small strategic additional land for buffer/defense.
That would include only the heavily populated near-in settlements.. and even then *I* call for 100% Land swap for any land acquired in 1967 in exchange for those 'facts on the ground.
Everything else becomes art of New Palestine with or without Jews living within it.
That's my position based on solid fact.



			
				GP said:
			
		

> If so, what's your argument against Theodor Meron, Israel's foreign ministry's legal adviser in 1967, explicit warning to his government against settling civilians in the newly occupied territories?


Partially explained above. Arab rejectionism has its cost, but 
this will be largely alleviated with 100% Land Swap plans as Ohlmert floated several years ago.

Israel returns 99%!

THAT is the solution.
Unfortunately it wont be offered again until Netanyahu is OUT of office.
Under him there will be no peace, no agreement. 

and while Abbas was apparently willing at one time for that, he is no longer - at least publicly.
He has now bowed to pressure from his Hamas right (and is bolstered by Intl/UN support) and demands the EXACT 1967 borders. Which will Never happen.

That's my position and opinion on the state of negotiations. IMO No agreement is possible agreement at this time/These leaderships.
and Dont forget Palestine has TWO Govt's
One can't claim 'right to exist' unless you have a Unified govt - unless they want two Palestines (Hamastan and Palestine)

Glad to answer answer any more.

thx


----------



## SAYIT

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does Israel really need borders, Porky?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Owning land automatically produces borders. Israel has no borders because it has no land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should sue to get your money back. Someone's been feeding you a line of BS.
Click to expand...


It's camel crap to be precise. TinHorn has one of those fine ElectronicIntifada educations.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does Israel really need borders, Porky?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Owning land automatically produces borders. Israel has no borders because it has no land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should sue to get your money back. Someone's been feeding you a line of BS.
Click to expand...


Show me a map of Israel inside its international borders.

Cue song and dance
3
2
1


----------



## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Owning land automatically produces borders. Israel has no borders because it has no land.
> 
> 
> 
> You should sue to get your money back. Someone's been feeding you a line of BS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Show me a map of Israel inside its international borders.
> 
> Cue song and dance
> 3
> 2
> 1
Click to expand...


And a 1 and a 2:
Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
"Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!


----------



## P F Tinmore

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should sue to get your money back. Someone's been feeding you a line of BS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show me a map of Israel inside its international borders.
> 
> Cue song and dance
> 3
> 2
> 1
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And a 1 and a 2:
> Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
> "Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!
Click to expand...


Thank you.

Right on cue.


----------



## ima

I understand people have a right to exist, but how does an land entity (such as Israel with whatever borders) get any "right"? Does my electric guitar have a right to rock n' roll?


----------



## SAYIT

ima said:


> I understand people have a right to exist, but how does an land entity (such as Israel with whatever borders) get any "right"? Does my electric guitar have a right to rock n' roll?



Absolutely!


----------



## JakeMeadows

For the same reason that members of the United Nations Human Rights Commission are or were leaders of nations that violated their own citizens human rights in the worst way.   In modern times the United Nations is a useless body and we should withdraw.  At one point Iran was a member of the woman's rights agency within the council.  What a joke.


----------



## georgephillip

JakeMeadows said:


> For the same reason that members of the United Nations Human Rights Commission are or were leaders of nations that violated their own citizens human rights in the worst way.   In modern times the United Nations is a useless body and we should withdraw.  At one point Iran was a member of the woman's rights agency within the council.  What a joke.


Yet Iran has never conspired to overthrow an elected US President.
Iran has never murdered, maimed, displaced, or incarcerated millions of civilians on the opposite side of the planet from its homeland.
Those of us in the US should really FLUSH our own government before worrying about Iran's.


----------



## Hossfly

JakeMeadows said:


> For the same reason that members of the United Nations Human Rights Commission are or were leaders of nations that violated their own citizens human rights in the worst way.   In modern times the United Nations is a useless body and we should withdraw.  At one point Iran was a member of the woman's rights agency within the council.  What a joke.


GP, is there any reason I shouldn't believe you are an anti-American, terrorist regime loving dissident?


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> JakeMeadows said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the same reason that members of the United Nations Human Rights Commission are or were leaders of nations that violated their own citizens human rights in the worst way.   In modern times the United Nations is a useless body and we should withdraw.  At one point Iran was a member of the woman's rights agency within the council.  What a joke.
> 
> 
> 
> GP, is there any reason I shouldn't believe you are an anti-American, terrorist regime loving dissident?
Click to expand...

Hoss, I don't hold my country or its strategic assets to a lower moral standard than the rest of the world. 

Does that make me anti-American?


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeMeadows said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the same reason that members of the United Nations Human Rights Commission are or were leaders of nations that violated their own citizens human rights in the worst way.   In modern times the United Nations is a useless body and we should withdraw.  At one point Iran was a member of the woman's rights agency within the council.  What a joke.
> 
> 
> 
> GP, is there any reason I shouldn't believe you are an anti-American, terrorist regime loving dissident?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hoss, I don't hold my country or its strategic assets to a lower moral standard than the rest of the world.
> 
> Does that make me anti-American?
Click to expand...

If not,then you only set your standards a small percentage higher. That's still pretty low. And a citizen shouldn't be bad mouthing his country all the time like a '60s flower child.


----------



## Billo_Really

JakeMeadows said:


> For the same reason that members of the United Nations Human Rights Commission are or were leaders of nations that violated their own citizens human rights in the worst way.


Name them!

Who were these leaders that you speak of?


----------



## SAYIT

Hossfly said:


> JakeMeadows said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the same reason that members of the United Nations Human Rights Commission are or were leaders of nations that violated their own citizens human rights in the worst way.   In modern times the United Nations is a useless body and we should withdraw.  At one point Iran was a member of the woman's rights agency within the council.  What a joke.
> 
> 
> 
> GP, is there any reason I shouldn't believe you are an anti-American, terrorist regime loving dissident?
Click to expand...


None at all.


----------



## ima

SAYIT said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand people have a right to exist, but how does an land entity (such as Israel with whatever borders) get any "right"? Does my electric guitar have a right to rock n' roll?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely!
Click to expand...


So can you explain why an inanimate object has any "rights" like Jews claim that Israel has?


----------



## irosie91

Jihadist dogs cannot converse------the best they can to is fart out silly jingles as they dream of the "glory" of sneaking into a house to slit the throat of an infant.   They are so stupid that in discussions of their own aggressive farts of  "YITBACH AL  ............"   and their incessant  cheers for BLOOD   in honor of their  dog "god"-----they resort to silly games of semantics and stupitidy  like    "how can a country have a 'right' to exist"      Jihadist dogs actually consider that  'query'  to be  clever-------does a jihadist dog have a 'right' to exist?      does a city which is the place where a rapist pig was born have a  'right to exist'      well---for the jihadist dogs an artistic rendition in stone of a person far better than any of them and their "god"  to wit    BUDDHA   somehow does not have a "right"  to exist and the dogs go to great effort to ATTACK   it


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> Jihadist dogs cannot converse------the best they can to is fart out silly jingles as they dream of the "glory" of sneaking into a house to slit the throat of an infant.   They are so stupid that in discussions of their own aggressive farts of  "YITBACH AL  ............"   and their incessant  cheers for BLOOD   in honor of their  dog "god"-----they resort to silly games of semantics and stupitidy  like    "how can a country have a 'right' to exist"      Jihadist dogs actually consider that  'query'  to be  clever-------does a jihadist dog have a 'right' to exist?      does a city which is the place where a rapist pig was born have a  'right to exist'      well---for the jihadist dogs an artistic rendition in stone of a person far better than any of them and their "god"  to wit    BUDDHA   somehow does not have a "right"  to exist and the dogs go to great effort to ATTACK   it



Make sure you keep your muzzle on and have your rabies shots up to date. Thanks.


----------



## irosie91

"Make sure you keep your muzzle on and have your rabies shots up to date. Thanks. "

      yet another example of a jihadist fart-----and it is not even friday


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> JakeMeadows said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the same reason that members of the United Nations Human Rights Commission are or were leaders of nations that violated their own citizens human rights in the worst way.   In modern times the United Nations is a useless body and we should withdraw.  At one point Iran was a member of the woman's rights agency within the council.  What a joke.
> 
> 
> 
> Yet Iran has never conspired to overthrow an elected US President.
> Iran has never murdered, maimed, displaced, or incarcerated millions of civilians on the opposite side of the planet from its homeland.
> Those of us in the US should really FLUSH our own government before worrying about Iran's.
Click to expand...

Iran's Hezbollah has taken over Lebanon and held its people captive to their Islamic imperialistic ideology. Iran exports terror and has itself conducted terrorism and bombings and murder of its citizens as well as attacked citizens of other countries.  Iran is close allies with Syria that not only supports Syria's slaughter of its citizens but sends troop and weapons to help the Syrians kill more of their own people. Plus Iran regularly threatens the destruction of other countries. 

In short, Iran is one of the main forces for war and instability not only in the region but the entire world. Which is why it is under such harsh international sanctions. Perhaps you can convince the civilized world that Iran's IslamoNazis are really nice guys.


----------



## Roudy

ima said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jihadist dogs cannot converse------the best they can to is fart out silly jingles as they dream of the "glory" of sneaking into a house to slit the throat of an infant.   They are so stupid that in discussions of their own aggressive farts of  "YITBACH AL  ............"   and their incessant  cheers for BLOOD   in honor of their  dog "god"-----they resort to silly games of semantics and stupitidy  like    "how can a country have a 'right' to exist"      Jihadist dogs actually consider that  'query'  to be  clever-------does a jihadist dog have a 'right' to exist?      does a city which is the place where a rapist pig was born have a  'right to exist'      well---for the jihadist dogs an artistic rendition in stone of a person far better than any of them and their "god"  to wit    BUDDHA   somehow does not have a "right"  to exist and the dogs go to great effort to ATTACK   it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Make sure you keep your muzzle on and have your rabies shots up to date. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Said the mosque dog.


----------



## ima

Roudy said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jihadist dogs cannot converse------the best they can to is fart out silly jingles as they dream of the "glory" of sneaking into a house to slit the throat of an infant.   They are so stupid that in discussions of their own aggressive farts of  "YITBACH AL  ............"   and their incessant  cheers for BLOOD   in honor of their  dog "god"-----they resort to silly games of semantics and stupitidy  like    "how can a country have a 'right' to exist"      Jihadist dogs actually consider that  'query'  to be  clever-------does a jihadist dog have a 'right' to exist?      does a city which is the place where a rapist pig was born have a  'right to exist'      well---for the jihadist dogs an artistic rendition in stone of a person far better than any of them and their "god"  to wit    BUDDHA   somehow does not have a "right"  to exist and the dogs go to great effort to ATTACK   it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Make sure you keep your muzzle on and have your rabies shots up to date. Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Said the mosque dog.
Click to expand...


Whatever you do, don't address my original point which was: So can you explain why an inanimate object has any "rights" like Jews claim that Israel has?


----------



## irosie91

ima said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Make sure you keep your muzzle on and have your rabies shots up to date. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Said the mosque dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whatever you do, don't address my original point which was: So can you explain why an inanimate object has any "rights" like Jews claim that Israel has?
Click to expand...



Your query is idiotic     a  COUNTRY is land WITH PEOPLE.     I will give you an example since you are so simple in your thinking that you NEED EXAMPLES     ANTARCTICA  is not a "COUNTRY"      it has not even been admitted to the UN despite is huge population of Penguins which remain unrepresented.      Antarctica is a  LAND MASS----the kind which we ---PEOPLE---call a CONTINENT        it is much larger than is Israel-----but is not even part of the EUROPEAN UNION         the european union is made up of COUNTRIES WHICH HAVE A RIGHT TO EXIST            time to stop you idiot spamming


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Said the mosque dog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever you do, don't address my original point which was: So can you explain why an inanimate object has any "rights" like Jews claim that Israel has?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Your query is idiotic     a  COUNTRY is land WITH PEOPLE.     I will give you an example since you are so simple in your thinking that you NEED EXAMPLES     ANTARCTICA  is not a "COUNTRY"      it has not even been admitted to the UN despite is huge population of Penguins which remain unrepresented.      Antarctica is a  LAND MASS----the kind which we ---PEOPLE---call a CONTINENT        it is much larger than is Israel-----but is not even part of the EUROPEAN UNION         the european union is made up of COUNTRIES WHICH HAVE A RIGHT TO EXIST            time to stop you idiot spamming
Click to expand...


No countries have an actual right to exist, that's absurd. Which European country has an actual right? And where are these rights written?


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> GP, is there any reason I shouldn't believe you are an anti-American, terrorist regime loving dissident?
> 
> 
> 
> Hoss, I don't hold my country or its strategic assets to a lower moral standard than the rest of the world.
> 
> Does that make me anti-American?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If not,then you only set your standards a small percentage higher. That's still pretty low. And a citizen shouldn't be bad mouthing his country all the time like a '60s flower child.
Click to expand...

Citizens have an obligation to "bad mouth" the political hacks who manipulate their country's government on behalf of elites who profit from resource wars, for example.

Since the end of WWII the most valuable resource has been oil, and the largest concentration of oil is in the Middle East. 150 years ago the most valuable resource was cotton, and Texas was its epicenter.

What President Polk and his fellow Jacksonian Democrats did from 1846-1848 was exactly what Saddam tried to do in Kuwait in 1990.

How do you criticize the latter while flapping the flag for the former without appearing hypocritical?


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeMeadows said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the same reason that members of the United Nations Human Rights Commission are or were leaders of nations that violated their own citizens human rights in the worst way.   In modern times the United Nations is a useless body and we should withdraw.  At one point Iran was a member of the woman's rights agency within the council.  What a joke.
> 
> 
> 
> GP, is there any reason I shouldn't believe you are an anti-American, terrorist regime loving dissident?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> None at all.
Click to expand...

"The Department of Defense Dictionary of Military Terms defines terrorism as:

    "The calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological."

Now explain how someone can be simultaneously "anti-American" and "terrorist regime loving"?


----------



## georgephillip

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeMeadows said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the same reason that members of the United Nations Human Rights Commission are or were leaders of nations that violated their own citizens human rights in the worst way.   In modern times the United Nations is a useless body and we should withdraw.  At one point Iran was a member of the woman's rights agency within the council.  What a joke.
> 
> 
> 
> Yet Iran has never conspired to overthrow an elected US President.
> Iran has never murdered, maimed, displaced, or incarcerated millions of civilians on the opposite side of the planet from its homeland.
> Those of us in the US should really FLUSH our own government before worrying about Iran's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Iran's Hezbollah has taken over Lebanon and held its people captive to their Islamic imperialistic ideology. Iran exports terror and has itself conducted terrorism and bombings and murder of its citizens as well as attacked citizens of other countries.  Iran is close allies with Syria that not only supports Syria's slaughter of its citizens but sends troop and weapons to help the Syrians kill more of their own people. Plus Iran regularly threatens the destruction of other countries.
> 
> In short, Iran is one of the main forces for war and instability not only in the region but the entire world. Which is why it is under such harsh international sanctions. Perhaps you can convince the civilized world that Iran's IslamoNazis are really nice guys.
Click to expand...

What's the last time Iran actually invaded another country?
When did the Iranians overthrow a chief executive in the US?

What Iranian has ever matched the arrogance of Paul Wolfowitz when, in response to a question asking why the US went after Iraq instead of North Korea answered that, economically speaking, we had no options in Iraq: "The country floats on a sea of oil."

Since 2003 the US has maimed, murdered, displaced, and incarcerated millions of innocent Iraqi civilians. Even Israel's illegal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza doesn't rise to that level of terrorism, and nothing Iran has done comes close to the level of state-sponsored terror exhibited by either Israel or the US.

Telling the Truth about Imperialism, Noam Chomsky interviewed by David Barsamian


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yet Iran has never conspired to overthrow an elected US President.
> Iran has never murdered, maimed, displaced, or incarcerated millions of civilians on the opposite side of the planet from its homeland.
> Those of us in the US should really FLUSH our own government before worrying about Iran's.
> 
> 
> 
> Iran's Hezbollah has taken over Lebanon and held its people captive to their Islamic imperialistic ideology. Iran exports terror and has itself conducted terrorism and bombings and murder of its citizens as well as attacked citizens of other countries.  Iran is close allies with Syria that not only supports Syria's slaughter of its citizens but sends troop and weapons to help the Syrians kill more of their own people. Plus Iran regularly threatens the destruction of other countries.
> 
> In short, Iran is one of the main forces for war and instability not only in the region but the entire world. Which is why it is under such harsh international sanctions. Perhaps you can convince the civilized world that Iran's IslamoNazis are really nice guys.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's the last time Iran actually invaded another country?
> When did the Iranians overthrow a chief executive in the US?
> 
> What Iranian has ever matched the arrogance of Paul Wolfowitz when, in response to a question asking why the US went after Iraq instead of North Korea answered that, economically speaking, we had no options in Iraq: "The country floats on a sea of oil."
> 
> Since 2003 the US has maimed, murdered, displaced, and incarcerated millions of innocent Iraqi civilians. Even Israel's illegal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza doesn't rise to that level of terrorism, and nothing Iran has done comes close to the level of state-sponsored terror exhibited by either Israel or the US.
> 
> Telling the Truth about Imperialism, Noam Chomsky interviewed by David Barsamian
Click to expand...

All those who appear to hate Americn and Israel always drag up Chomsky, who should just stick to Linguisitic which is the field he is an expert in, not politics.  I don't think it has gotten through Georgie's head yet that he would be safer in Israel than he would be in any Muslim country.  By the way, Georgie, the Assyrians in Los Angeles are collecting money for their fellow Syrian Christians in need because of what is happening in Syria.  I hope you have given them your contribution.
Syria Christian refugees in Lebanon fear Islamist rebels - latimes.com



jt2


----------



## irosie91

to what year is georgie referring?     Iran has quite remarkable history of COMITTING GENOCIDE-----In fact it did commit genocide upon its  ZOROASTRIAN population    As to attacking      georgie seems to imagine that Hezbollah is made up of MARTIANS       "millions dead in Iraq"    actually that is not true either unless he is counting the people murdered by islamic hero   Sadaam and also in the war between  Iraq and Iran       oh I forgot    MILLIONS OF CHILDREN DIED   because of "sanctions"------right     He is pushing that myth too.    the poor kids died of lack of chocolate and american  "jello"


----------



## Billo_Really

irosie91 said:


> Your query is idiotic     a  COUNTRY is land WITH PEOPLE.


An israeli landed at Heathrow Airport in london, at the customs desk, 
the control officer asked: occupation? and the israeli answers: no just for visit


----------



## Lipush

loinboy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your query is idiotic     a  COUNTRY is land WITH PEOPLE.
> 
> 
> 
> An israeli landed at Heathrow Airport in london, at the customs desk,
> the control officer asked: occupation? and the israeli answers: no just for visit
Click to expand...


In London? It would have made better sense if it was the British in Israel.


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> In London? It would have made better sense if it was the British in Israel.


An American tourist in Tel Aviv was about to enter the impressive Mann Auditorium to take in a concert by the Israel Philharmonic. He was admiring the unique architecture, the sweeping lines of the entrance, and the modern decor throughout the building. Finally he turned to his friend and asked if the building was named for Thomas Mann, the world-famous author. 

"No," his friend said, "it's named for Fredrick Mann, from Philadelphia." 

"Really? I've never heard of him. What did he write?" 

"A check."


----------



## Lipush

loinboy said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> In London? It would have made better sense if it was the British in Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> An American tourist in Tel Aviv was about to enter the impressive Mann Auditorium to take in a concert by the Israel Philharmonic. He was admiring the unique architecture, the sweeping lines of the entrance, and the modern decor throughout the building. Finally he turned to his friend and asked if the building was named for Thomas Mann, the world-famous author.
> 
> "No," his friend said, "it's named for Fredrick Mann, from Philadelphia."
> 
> "Really? I've never heard of him. What did he write?"
> 
> "A check."
Click to expand...


I've heard that one.

If we're into self humour-

An Israeli husband asks his wife, "Motek, do you remember the name of the Hotel we were in last year on our honeymoon?"

"Wait a second, I'll check the towels".

---------

Only in Israel you can see a group of hoodlums burning tires singing "whoever believes doesn't fear..." two minutes after a siren is sounded and they all run

---------

Being Israeli is to push the one before you in line and yell at the guy behind you, "would you stop pushing me"?

---------

Being Israeli is to go to a hotel in Jerusalem and complain you don't have view to sea.

--------


----------



## irosie91

ima said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Make sure you keep your muzzle on and have your rabies shots up to date. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Said the mosque dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whatever you do, don't address my original point which was: So can you explain why an inanimate object has any "rights" like Jews claim that Israel has?
Click to expand...


that idiotic  "question"   has already been answered     -----Israel is a COUNTRY ----populated by people      A far more logical question is ---WHY WOULD A PLACE---GENERALLY DRY AND MISERABLE --WHICH WAS THE BIRTH PLACE OF A RAPIST, THIEVING, MURDERING PIG and NOTABLE FOR BEING RULED BY THE MOST DISGUSTING RACIST PIG LAWS IN THE WORLD---to wit    mecca----be permitted to exist on a planet striving toward decency?      The most important event that took place in the miserable cursed place----is the pig born there managed to commit the most comprehensive genocide in history and even now----that cesspit is a monument to the filth of exclusionist racism.    Depraved people who hold that cesspit  "holy"   are the same dogs who attacked elegant buddhist art in afghanistan in worship of the rapist pig


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Iran's Hezbollah has taken over Lebanon and held its people captive to their Islamic imperialistic ideology. Iran exports terror and has itself conducted terrorism and bombings and murder of its citizens as well as attacked citizens of other countries.  Iran is close allies with Syria that not only supports Syria's slaughter of its citizens but sends troop and weapons to help the Syrians kill more of their own people. Plus Iran regularly threatens the destruction of other countries.
> 
> In short, Iran is one of the main forces for war and instability not only in the region but the entire world. Which is why it is under such harsh international sanctions. Perhaps you can convince the civilized world that Iran's IslamoNazis are really nice guys.
> 
> 
> 
> What's the last time Iran actually invaded another country?
> When did the Iranians overthrow a chief executive in the US?
> 
> What Iranian has ever matched the arrogance of Paul Wolfowitz when, in response to a question asking why the US went after Iraq instead of North Korea answered that, economically speaking, we had no options in Iraq: "The country floats on a sea of oil."
> 
> Since 2003 the US has maimed, murdered, displaced, and incarcerated millions of innocent Iraqi civilians. Even Israel's illegal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza doesn't rise to that level of terrorism, and nothing Iran has done comes close to the level of state-sponsored terror exhibited by either Israel or the US.
> 
> Telling the Truth about Imperialism, Noam Chomsky interviewed by David Barsamian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All those who appear to hate Americn and Israel always drag up Chomsky, who should just stick to Linguisitic which is the field he is an expert in, not politics.  I don't think it has gotten through Georgie's head yet that he would be safer in Israel than he would be in any Muslim country.  By the way, Georgie, the Assyrians in Los Angeles are collecting money for their fellow Syrian Christians in need because of what is happening in Syria.  I hope you have given them your contribution.
> Syria Christian refugees in Lebanon fear Islamist rebels - latimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> jt2
Click to expand...

*You've heard the expression there's no silver medal in Revolutions?*

"ZAHLE, Lebanon &#8212; For most of the refugees streaming across the border into Lebanon, Syrian President Bashar Assad is to blame for the violence back home and the rebel effort to oust him is laudable. *For the traumatized Christians among them, it's often the opposite.*

"The rebellion, led by Syria's Sunni Muslim majority, has stirred profound concern among Christians, who make up about 10% of Syria's population. Some say they detect an increasingly radicalized Islamist strain among the rebels that makes them fear for their future.

"Although many young Christians sympathize with the rebellion, *most Christians are believed to still support the embattled government,* viewing it as a guarantor of minority rights, even as it represses free speech and crushes any form of political opposition."

No I haven't donated, and I probably won't.
My $639 SSA and $200 worth of food stamps every month don't stretch the way they used to.
Can I blame Assad and his Christian slaves for that?

Syria Christian refugees in Lebanon fear Islamist rebels - latimes.com


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the last time Iran actually invaded another country?
> When did the Iranians overthrow a chief executive in the US?
> 
> What Iranian has ever matched the arrogance of Paul Wolfowitz when, in response to a question asking why the US went after Iraq instead of North Korea answered that, economically speaking, we had no options in Iraq: "The country floats on a sea of oil."
> 
> Since 2003 the US has maimed, murdered, displaced, and incarcerated millions of innocent Iraqi civilians. Even Israel's illegal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza doesn't rise to that level of terrorism, and nothing Iran has done comes close to the level of state-sponsored terror exhibited by either Israel or the US.
> 
> Telling the Truth about Imperialism, Noam Chomsky interviewed by David Barsamian
> 
> 
> 
> All those who appear to hate Americn and Israel always drag up Chomsky, who should just stick to Linguisitic which is the field he is an expert in, not politics.  I don't think it has gotten through Georgie's head yet that he would be safer in Israel than he would be in any Muslim country.  By the way, Georgie, the Assyrians in Los Angeles are collecting money for their fellow Syrian Christians in need because of what is happening in Syria.  I hope you have given them your contribution.
> Syria Christian refugees in Lebanon fear Islamist rebels - latimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> jt2
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *You've heard the expression there's no silver medal in Revolutions?*
> 
> "ZAHLE, Lebanon &#8212; For most of the refugees streaming across the border into Lebanon, Syrian President Bashar Assad is to blame for the violence back home and the rebel effort to oust him is laudable. *For the traumatized Christians among them, it's often the opposite.*
> 
> "The rebellion, led by Syria's Sunni Muslim majority, has stirred profound concern among Christians, who make up about 10% of Syria's population. Some say they detect an increasingly radicalized Islamist strain among the rebels that makes them fear for their future.
> 
> "Although many young Christians sympathize with the rebellion, *most Christians are believed to still support the embattled government,* viewing it as a guarantor of minority rights, even as it represses free speech and crushes any form of political opposition."
> 
> No I haven't donated, and I probably won't.
> My $639 SSA and $200 worth of food stamps every month don't stretch the way they used to.
> Can I blame Assad and his Christian slaves for that?
> 
> Syria Christian refugees in Lebanon fear Islamist rebels - latimes.com
Click to expand...

Vote for O'Bama and you'll get a lot more free stuff.


----------



## georgephillip

irosie91 said:


> to what year is georgie referring?     Iran has quite remarkable history of COMITTING GENOCIDE-----In fact it did commit genocide upon its  ZOROASTRIAN population    As to attacking      georgie seems to imagine that Hezbollah is made up of MARTIANS       "millions dead in Iraq"    actually that is not true either unless he is counting the people murdered by islamic hero   Sadaam and also in the war between  Iraq and Iran       oh I forgot    MILLIONS OF CHILDREN DIED   because of "sanctions"------right     He is pushing that myth too.    the poor kids died of lack of chocolate and american  "jello"


*Hasbara's blathering bitch* never misses a chance to miss the point.
Iran hasn't invaded or occupied another country or territory in the last hundred years.
Hezbollah would not exist if the Jewish State hadn't been forced on the majority of Palestinians in 1948.
Millions of Iraqis have been *murdered, maimed, displaced or incarcerated* since 2003.

"These results provide strong evidence that the Gulf war and trade sanctions caused a threefold increase in mortality among Iraqi children under five years of age. We estimate that an excess of more than 46,900 children died between January and August 1991. (N Engl J Med 1992;327:931&#8211;6.)"

Was it the lack of chocolate or jello or the ZOROASTRIAN population in Persia?

MMS: Error


----------



## Sundowner47

Leave it to those clever, resourceful Jews to invent a "right"---no less---for their crimes against the native Palestinians....you really have to admire the chutzpah, the "right to exist" is basically the right to steal..kill...terrorize...and lie about it. Felons everywhere take note!!!!!!!  You have the"Right to Exist"


----------



## courseofhistory

reabhloideach said:


> just what exactly is it?
> 
> i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of israel and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.
> 
> i mean, who or what gives israel this right to exist? who conferred it upon israel or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? did israel have a right to exist before it became a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?
> 
> does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?
> 
> personally. i have no idea whether israel, or any state, has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.



Every nation/country is soverign and has a right to exist.  If we were to dictate who has a right and who doesn't by whether or not lands and people were conquered or agreements were made then we might as well go back centuries to re-establish boundaries and borders.  Some may not like it, but if people are civilized, they will recognize that fact and instead of killing people and fighting, they could establish their own economy and better conditions for their people (ie. Palestine).  Maybe they feel that Israel is wrong, etc. but, get over it and grow up!


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> to what year is georgie referring?     Iran has quite remarkable history of COMITTING GENOCIDE-----In fact it did commit genocide upon its  ZOROASTRIAN population    As to attacking      georgie seems to imagine that Hezbollah is made up of MARTIANS       "millions dead in Iraq"    actually that is not true either unless he is counting the people murdered by islamic hero   Sadaam and also in the war between  Iraq and Iran       oh I forgot    MILLIONS OF CHILDREN DIED   because of "sanctions"------right     He is pushing that myth too.    the poor kids died of lack of chocolate and american  "jello"
> 
> 
> 
> *Hasbara's blathering bitch* never misses a chance to miss the point.
> Iran hasn't invaded or occupied another country or territory in the last hundred years.
> Hezbollah would not exist if the Jewish State hadn't been forced on the majority of Palestinians in 1948.
> Millions of Iraqis have been *murdered, maimed, displaced or incarcerated* since 2003.
> 
> "These results provide strong evidence that the Gulf war and trade sanctions caused a threefold increase in mortality among Iraqi children under five years of age. We estimate that an excess of more than 46,900 children died between January and August 1991. (N Engl J Med 1992;327:931&#8211;6.)"
> 
> Was it the lack of chocolate or jello or the ZOROASTRIAN population in Persia?
> 
> MMS: Error
Click to expand...

Neither. It proves that it's hazardous to ones health living in an Islamic country.


----------



## P F Tinmore

courseofhistory said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> just what exactly is it?
> 
> i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of israel and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.
> 
> i mean, who or what gives israel this right to exist? who conferred it upon israel or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? did israel have a right to exist before it became a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?
> 
> does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?
> 
> personally. i have no idea whether israel, or any state, has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every nation/country is soverign and has a right to exist.  If we were to dictate who has a right and who doesn't by whether or not lands and people were conquered or agreements were made then we might as well go back centuries to re-establish boundaries and borders.  Some may not like it, but if people are civilized, they will recognize that fact and instead of killing people and fighting, they could establish their own economy and better conditions for their people (ie. Palestine).  Maybe they feel that Israel is wrong, etc. but, get over it and grow up!
Click to expand...




> they could establish their own economy and better conditions for their people (ie. Palestine).



Yeah, maybe they should take up farming.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbv7IiOUJ3U&feature=related]Israeli bulldozers destroying the Palestinian land in Qarara, north east of Khan Younis, Gaza - YouTube[/ame]

Well, maybe not.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sundowner47 said:


> Leave it to those clever, resourceful Jews to invent a "right"---no less---for their crimes against the native Palestinians....you really have to admire the chutzpah, the "right to exist" is basically the right to steal..kill...terrorize...and lie about it. Felons everywhere take note!!!!!!!  You have the"Right to Exist"





> the "right to exist" is basically the right to steal..kill...terrorize...and lie about it



Are those the "shared values" that our politicians are always talking about when discussing Israel?


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Leave it to those clever, resourceful Jews to invent a "right"---no less---for their crimes against the native Palestinians....you really have to admire the chutzpah, the "right to exist" is basically the right to steal..kill...terrorize...and lie about it. Felons everywhere take note!!!!!!!  You have the"Right to Exist"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the "right to exist" is basically the right to steal..kill...terrorize...and lie about it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are those the "shared values" that our politicians are always talking about when discussing Israel?
Click to expand...

Have you been drinkin' that there Evian water again?


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Said the mosque dog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever you do, don't address my original point which was: So can you explain why an inanimate object has any "rights" like Jews claim that Israel has?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> that idiotic  "question"   has already been answered     -----Israel is a COUNTRY ----populated by people      A far more logical question is ---WHY WOULD A PLACE---GENERALLY DRY AND MISERABLE --WHICH WAS THE BIRTH PLACE OF A RAPIST, THIEVING, MURDERING PIG and NOTABLE FOR BEING RULED BY THE MOST DISGUSTING RACIST PIG LAWS IN THE WORLD---to wit    mecca----be permitted to exist on a planet striving toward decency?      The most important event that took place in the miserable cursed place----is the pig born there managed to commit the most comprehensive genocide in history and even now----that cesspit is a monument to the filth of exclusionist racism.    Depraved people who hold that cesspit  "holy"   are the same dogs who attacked elegant buddhist art in afghanistan in worship of the rapist pig
Click to expand...


If we take away your usual rant against arabs, all you answered was " -----Israel is a COUNTRY ----populated by people   ". So why do I always hear that Israel has a right to exist? What right? Written where? By Whom? 

Can you even come up with a real answer?


----------



## irosie91

ima said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever you do, don't address my original point which was: So can you explain why an inanimate object has any "rights" like Jews claim that Israel has?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that idiotic  "question"   has already been answered     -----Israel is a COUNTRY ----populated by people      A far more logical question is ---WHY WOULD A PLACE---GENERALLY DRY AND MISERABLE --WHICH WAS THE BIRTH PLACE OF A RAPIST, THIEVING, MURDERING PIG and NOTABLE FOR BEING RULED BY THE MOST DISGUSTING RACIST PIG LAWS IN THE WORLD---to wit    mecca----be permitted to exist on a planet striving toward decency?      The most important event that took place in the miserable cursed place----is the pig born there managed to commit the most comprehensive genocide in history and even now----that cesspit is a monument to the filth of exclusionist racism.    Depraved people who hold that cesspit  "holy"   are the same dogs who attacked elegant buddhist art in afghanistan in worship of the rapist pig
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If we take away your usual rant against arabs, all you answered was " -----Israel is a COUNTRY ----populated by people   ". So why do I always hear that Israel has a right to exist? What right? Written where? By Whom?
> 
> Can you even come up with a real answer?
Click to expand...



the piece of garbage  repeats the same stupidity like some people  parrot crap over and over again with ass in the air imagining that their  fart secented muttering have an effect on a dog "god"          It is an aspect of   "primitive thinking"    to "believe" repetition of crap becomes  "MAGICAL"        and is very prominent in schizophrenics.    Anyone interested in observing the kind of obsessive muttering in which   ima  engages------try to gain access to a hospital ward for the criminally insane.    This phenomenon also happens in people afflicted with long term syphilis-----ie neurosyphilis------sometimes referred to as  "lues"    when the doctors do not want the patient to know the topic of conversation


----------



## Billo_Really

irosie91 said:


> the piece of garbage  repeats the same stupidity like some people  parrot crap over and over again...


You are the absolute last person who should be telling people that!


----------



## irosie91

loinboy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the piece of garbage  repeats the same stupidity like some people  parrot crap over and over again...
> 
> 
> 
> You are the absolute last person who should be telling people that!
Click to expand...



oh gee----another one intoxicated with the fumes of sweaty socks


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> that idiotic  "question"   has already been answered     -----Israel is a COUNTRY ----populated by people      A far more logical question is ---WHY WOULD A PLACE---GENERALLY DRY AND MISERABLE --WHICH WAS THE BIRTH PLACE OF A RAPIST, THIEVING, MURDERING PIG and NOTABLE FOR BEING RULED BY THE MOST DISGUSTING RACIST PIG LAWS IN THE WORLD---to wit    mecca----be permitted to exist on a planet striving toward decency?      The most important event that took place in the miserable cursed place----is the pig born there managed to commit the most comprehensive genocide in history and even now----that cesspit is a monument to the filth of exclusionist racism.    Depraved people who hold that cesspit  "holy"   are the same dogs who attacked elegant buddhist art in afghanistan in worship of the rapist pig
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we take away your usual rant against arabs, all you answered was " -----Israel is a COUNTRY ----populated by people   ". So why do I always hear that Israel has a right to exist? What right? Written where? By Whom?
> 
> Can you even come up with a real answer?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> the piece of garbage  repeats the same stupidity like some people  parrot crap over and over again with ass in the air imagining that their  fart secented muttering have an effect on a dog "god"          It is an aspect of   "primitive thinking"    to "believe" repetition of crap becomes  "MAGICAL"        and is very prominent in schizophrenics.    Anyone interested in observing the kind of obsessive muttering in which   ima  engages------try to gain access to a hospital ward for the criminally insane.    This phenomenon also happens in people afflicted with long term syphilis-----ie neurosyphilis------sometimes referred to as  "lues"    when the doctors do not want the patient to know the topic of conversation
Click to expand...


I'll take that as a no.


----------



## irosie91

ima said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we take away your usual rant against arabs, all you answered was " -----Israel is a COUNTRY ----populated by people   ". So why do I always hear that Israel has a right to exist? What right? Written where? By Whom?
> 
> Can you even come up with a real answer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the piece of garbage  repeats the same stupidity like some people  parrot crap over and over again with ass in the air imagining that their  fart secented muttering have an effect on a dog "god"          It is an aspect of   "primitive thinking"    to "believe" repetition of crap becomes  "MAGICAL"        and is very prominent in schizophrenics.    Anyone interested in observing the kind of obsessive muttering in which   ima  engages------try to gain access to a hospital ward for the criminally insane.    This phenomenon also happens in people afflicted with long term syphilis-----ie neurosyphilis------sometimes referred to as  "lues"    when the doctors do not want the patient to know the topic of conversation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'll take that as a no.
Click to expand...



That's ok    I understand that it is impossible for you to justify the existence of the cesspit   saudi arabia and its epicenter of filth----the birthplace of the rapist pig ----mecca------I would not ask you to justify that disgusting filth-----it is impossible ------just as it is impossible to justify the idiot book about the pig son of amina the slut or the followers of slut and son


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the piece of garbage  repeats the same stupidity like some people  parrot crap over and over again with ass in the air imagining that their  fart secented muttering have an effect on a dog "god"          It is an aspect of   "primitive thinking"    to "believe" repetition of crap becomes  "MAGICAL"        and is very prominent in schizophrenics.    Anyone interested in observing the kind of obsessive muttering in which   ima  engages------try to gain access to a hospital ward for the criminally insane.    This phenomenon also happens in people afflicted with long term syphilis-----ie neurosyphilis------sometimes referred to as  "lues"    when the doctors do not want the patient to know the topic of conversation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll take that as a no.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's ok    I understand that it is impossible for you to justify the existence of the cesspit   saudi arabia and its epicenter of filth----the birthplace of the rapist pig ----mecca------I would not ask you to justify that disgusting filth-----it is impossible ------just as it is impossible to justify the idiot book about the pig son of amina the slut or the followers of slut and son
Click to expand...


I agree that SA is a huge box of stinky cat litter. But I'm not talking about that. Am I?

Are you implying that because some retard country does something, it's ok for Israel to do the same level of ugly?


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the piece of garbage  repeats the same stupidity like some people  parrot crap over and over again with ass in the air imagining that their  fart secented muttering have an effect on a dog "god"          It is an aspect of   "primitive thinking"    to "believe" repetition of crap becomes  "MAGICAL"        and is very prominent in schizophrenics.    Anyone interested in observing the kind of obsessive muttering in which   ima  engages------try to gain access to a hospital ward for the criminally insane.    This phenomenon also happens in people afflicted with long term syphilis-----ie neurosyphilis------sometimes referred to as  "lues"    when the doctors do not want the patient to know the topic of conversation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll take that as a no.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's ok    I understand that it is impossible for you to justify the existence of the cesspit   saudi arabia and its epicenter of filth----the birthplace of the rapist pig ----mecca------I would not ask you to justify that disgusting filth-----it is impossible ------just as it is impossible to justify the idiot book about the pig son of amina the slut or the followers of slut and son
Click to expand...


Why should we mention that in the Israel and Palestine forum?


----------



## irosie91

ima said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll take that as a no.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's ok    I understand that it is impossible for you to justify the existence of the cesspit   saudi arabia and its epicenter of filth----the birthplace of the rapist pig ----mecca------I would not ask you to justify that disgusting filth-----it is impossible ------just as it is impossible to justify the idiot book about the pig son of amina the slut or the followers of slut and son
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree that SA is a huge box of stinky cat litter. But I'm not talking about that. Am I?
> 
> Are you implying that because some retard country does something, it's ok for Israel to do the same level of ugly?
Click to expand...


Israel never did "ugly"    it is you and yours who do-----from the pig constantine  to  adolf    ALL YOURS         think  REICH       from the first of constantine to the third of your uncle  adolf     all in your name by you and yours -----filth and ugliness------in fact it was your filth and ugliness that was emulated in the arabian desert    and from thence inflicted on much of the world to the present state of cosmic cesspit.     Israel is the place of refuge for decent people from YOUR STINK


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's ok    I understand that it is impossible for you to justify the existence of the cesspit   saudi arabia and its epicenter of filth----the birthplace of the rapist pig ----mecca------I would not ask you to justify that disgusting filth-----it is impossible ------just as it is impossible to justify the idiot book about the pig son of amina the slut or the followers of slut and son
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that SA is a huge box of stinky cat litter. But I'm not talking about that. Am I?
> 
> Are you implying that because some retard country does something, it's ok for Israel to do the same level of ugly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel never did "ugly"    it is you and yours who do-----from the pig constantine  to  adolf    ALL YOURS         think  REICH       from the first of constantine to the third of your uncle  adolf     all in your name by you and yours -----filth and ugliness------in fact it was your filth and ugliness that was emulated in the arabian desert    and from thence inflicted on much of the world to the present state of cosmic cesspit.     Israel is the place of refuge for decent people from YOUR STINK
Click to expand...


You obviously don't want peace. Enjoy the war. Try not to get too much Chinese food spilled on you, especially the red pineapple sauce.


----------



## irosie91

ima said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that SA is a huge box of stinky cat litter. But I'm not talking about that. Am I?
> 
> Are you implying that because some retard country does something, it's ok for Israel to do the same level of ugly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel never did "ugly"    it is you and yours who do-----from the pig constantine  to  adolf    ALL YOURS         think  REICH       from the first of constantine to the third of your uncle  adolf     all in your name by you and yours -----filth and ugliness------in fact it was your filth and ugliness that was emulated in the arabian desert    and from thence inflicted on much of the world to the present state of cosmic cesspit.     Israel is the place of refuge for decent people from YOUR STINK
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You obviously don't want peace. Enjoy the war. Try not to get too much Chinese food spilled on you, especially the red pineapple sauce.
Click to expand...



Of course I want to resist the filth you advocate------all decent people do.  Islamicism is a totalitarian ideology        the red sweet and sour sauce does not stain------it is turmeric that one has to avoid ----especially on light colored cloth----also saffron


----------



## Sundowner47

courseofhistory said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> just what exactly is it?
> 
> i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of israel and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.
> 
> i mean, who or what gives israel this right to exist? who conferred it upon israel or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? did israel have a right to exist before it became a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?
> 
> does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?
> 
> personally. i have no idea whether israel, or any state, has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every nation/country is soverign and has a right to exist.  If we were to dictate who has a right and who doesn't by whether or not lands and people were conquered or agreements were made then we might as well go back centuries to re-establish boundaries and borders.  Some may not like it, but if people are civilized, they will recognize that fact and instead of killing people and fighting, they could establish their own economy and better conditions for their people (ie. Palestine).  Maybe they feel that Israel is wrong, etc. but, get over it and grow up!
Click to expand...

                                                        A remarkably stupid set of assumptions: no nation on the face of the planet inheres a "right to exist"....you confuse recognition with "right"...as for the Palestinians establishing better living conditions---have you been asleep for 60 years moron???  The Jews control Palestine, and every aspect of Palestinian life---economy...freedom of movement...resources...borders...political representation..etc., what part of this fails to register?????


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sundowner47 said:


> courseofhistory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> 
> just what exactly is it?
> 
> i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of israel and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.
> 
> i mean, who or what gives israel this right to exist? who conferred it upon israel or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? did israel have a right to exist before it became a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?
> 
> does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?
> 
> personally. i have no idea whether israel, or any state, has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every nation/country is soverign and has a right to exist.  If we were to dictate who has a right and who doesn't by whether or not lands and people were conquered or agreements were made then we might as well go back centuries to re-establish boundaries and borders.  Some may not like it, but if people are civilized, they will recognize that fact and instead of killing people and fighting, they could establish their own economy and better conditions for their people (ie. Palestine).  Maybe they feel that Israel is wrong, etc. but, get over it and grow up!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A remarkably stupid set of assumptions: no nation on the face of the planet inheres a "right to exist"....you confuse recognition with "right"...as for the Palestinians establishing better living conditions---have you been asleep for 60 years moron???  The Jews control Palestine, and every aspect of Palestinian life---economy...freedom of movement...resources...borders...political representation..etc., what part of this fails to register?????
Click to expand...


That is true.

Palestine's economy sucks because Israel destroyed it.

Palestine's government suck because Israel destroyed it.


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> All those who appear to hate Americn and Israel always drag up Chomsky, who should just stick to Linguisitic which is the field he is an expert in, not politics.  I don't think it has gotten through Georgie's head yet that he would be safer in Israel than he would be in any Muslim country.  By the way, Georgie, the Assyrians in Los Angeles are collecting money for their fellow Syrian Christians in need because of what is happening in Syria.  I hope you have given them your contribution.
> Syria Christian refugees in Lebanon fear Islamist rebels - latimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> jt2
> 
> 
> 
> *You've heard the expression there's no silver medal in Revolutions?*
> 
> "ZAHLE, Lebanon &#8212; For most of the refugees streaming across the border into Lebanon, Syrian President Bashar Assad is to blame for the violence back home and the rebel effort to oust him is laudable. *For the traumatized Christians among them, it's often the opposite.*
> 
> "The rebellion, led by Syria's Sunni Muslim majority, has stirred profound concern among Christians, who make up about 10% of Syria's population. Some say they detect an increasingly radicalized Islamist strain among the rebels that makes them fear for their future.
> 
> "Although many young Christians sympathize with the rebellion, *most Christians are believed to still support the embattled government,* viewing it as a guarantor of minority rights, even as it represses free speech and crushes any form of political opposition."
> 
> No I haven't donated, and I probably won't.
> My $639 SSA and $200 worth of food stamps every month don't stretch the way they used to.
> Can I blame Assad and his Christian slaves for that?
> 
> Syria Christian refugees in Lebanon fear Islamist rebels - latimes.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Vote for O'Bama and you'll get a lot more free stuff.
Click to expand...

What do you expect voting for Ryan/Romney will bring...hyperinflation?

I'm voting Socialist or Green...you?


----------



## irosie91

between   1948 and  1967    GAZA WAS PART OF EGYPT      at that time the people were undereducated,  starving and had almost no running water---no electricity  and no medical care.    Since 1967  when Israel came to an occupation and then a minimal semi occupation of Gaza----the standard of living  in all realms has improved to the point that it is among the highest of all muslim populations of the world     In fact marrying a Gazan is a step UP for many egyptians      they get to move into gaza and get a higher standard of life than most of the  FELLAHIN  of egypt     Gaza also has one of the best infant survival rates in the  muslim world       I had no idea about the improvement in gazan life wrought by Israel until about 23  years ago   when I came into contact with a gazan family because ---a man was being treated for the outcome of the MEDICAL NEGLECT   he suffered as a child in gaza ----pre 1967.   Family members both in the US   and those who came over from gaza   were very informative      I wonder why sunny and tinny are so eager to prove that they are utterly ignorant of simple history      Who is the idiot who claimed  Israel has "controlled gaza"  for 60 years?     where have you been?


----------



## Saigon

irosie91 said:


> Since 1967  when Israel came to an occupation and then a minimal semi occupation of Gaza----the standard of living  in all realms has improved to the point that it is among the highest of all muslim populations of the world   ?



Um.....what?

In 2006, the Gaza Strip had a GDP per capita of US$150 per day. 

In 2006, Malaysia had a GDP per capita of US$12,900. Turkey had $9,000, and Tunisia US$8,800. Even Bangladesh managed US$2000. 

So how were the Gazans better off, Rosie? 



> they are utterly ignorant of simple history Who is the idiot who claimed Israel has "controlled gaza" for 60 years? where have you been?



If you are going to post things like...it is better to be right!


----------



## irosie91

standard of living        for   THE GENERAL POPULATION     not average of income  -------

   check infant mortality rates-----after  1967   GAZA's is a lot better than  INDONESIA      I will check Tunisia------probably beats tunisia too----certainly beats   egypt


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll take that as a no.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's ok    I understand that it is impossible for you to justify the existence of the cesspit   saudi arabia and its epicenter of filth----the birthplace of the rapist pig ----mecca------I would not ask you to justify that disgusting filth-----it is impossible ------just as it is impossible to justify the idiot book about the pig son of amina the slut or the followers of slut and son
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should we mention that in the Israel and Palestine forum?
Click to expand...



why would you discuss the  QUESTION of  ----"DO COUNTRIES HAVE A RIGHT TO EXIST"      
             in a sick attempt to fake some sort of MYSTICAL GENIUS  in an israel/palestine forum         it is clear that you can claim NO RIGHT TO EXIST----from the POV of the   LORD SHIVA


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's ok    I understand that it is impossible for you to justify the existence of the cesspit   saudi arabia and its epicenter of filth----the birthplace of the rapist pig ----mecca------I would not ask you to justify that disgusting filth-----it is impossible ------just as it is impossible to justify the idiot book about the pig son of amina the slut or the followers of slut and son
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why should we mention that in the Israel and Palestine forum?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> why would you discuss the  QUESTION of  ----"DO COUNTRIES HAVE A RIGHT TO EXIST"
> in a sick attempt to fake some sort of MYSTICAL GENIUS  in an israel/palestine forum         it is clear that you can claim NO RIGHT TO EXIST----from the POV of the   LORD SHIVA
Click to expand...


So basically, every ethnic group has a right to a country? Or does something like Kurdistan or Chenia just have a right to exist just because?


----------



## irosie91

ima said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why should we mention that in the Israel and Palestine forum?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> why would you discuss the  QUESTION of  ----"DO COUNTRIES HAVE A RIGHT TO EXIST"
> in a sick attempt to fake some sort of MYSTICAL GENIUS  in an israel/palestine forum         it is clear that you can claim NO RIGHT TO EXIST----from the POV of the   LORD SHIVA
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So basically, every ethnic group has a right to a country? Or does something like Kurdistan or Chenia just have a right to exist just because?
Click to expand...



why are you conjecturing about   EVERY ETHNIC GROUP    on an   Israel/palestine board?


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's ok    I understand that it is impossible for you to justify the existence of the cesspit   saudi arabia and its epicenter of filth----the birthplace of the rapist pig ----mecca------I would not ask you to justify that disgusting filth-----it is impossible ------just as it is impossible to justify the idiot book about the pig son of amina the slut or the followers of slut and son
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why should we mention that in the Israel and Palestine forum?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> why would you discuss the  QUESTION of  ----"DO COUNTRIES HAVE A RIGHT TO EXIST"
> in a sick attempt to fake some sort of MYSTICAL GENIUS  in an israel/palestine forum         it is clear that you can claim NO RIGHT TO EXIST----from the POV of the   LORD SHIVA
Click to expand...


I don't believe that a country or government, per se, has the right to exist.

People have the right to exist. People have the right to self determination. The people in a defined area have the right to form their own country and government so by extension those have the right to exist.

However, Israel was created by foreigners inside Palestine without the consent of the people. That is why its right to exist is questionable.


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why should we mention that in the Israel and Palestine forum?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> why would you discuss the  QUESTION of  ----"DO COUNTRIES HAVE A RIGHT TO EXIST"
> in a sick attempt to fake some sort of MYSTICAL GENIUS  in an israel/palestine forum         it is clear that you can claim NO RIGHT TO EXIST----from the POV of the   LORD SHIVA
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't believe that a country or government, per se, has the right to exist.
> 
> People have the right to exist. People have the right to self determination. The people in a defined area have the right to form their own country and government so by extension those have the right to exist.
> 
> Pakistan was created by   the forces of the invading  moghul pigs into HINUD  INDIA   and therefore has no right to exist.     Palestine  was also harboring   invading  dogs from ARABIA     who spoke a langauge foreign to the land of palestine and rightly belonged in the deserts of arabia        Hebrew speaking people ----speaking the only extant language that developed in palestine  ----created   Israel         The moghul pigs do not speak an  INDIAN LANGUAGE      they garble things up with bits of persian  (farsi)  and   even worse ----arabic
Click to expand...


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> _Palestine's economy sucks because Israel destroyed it._


It just sucks - there was nothing to destroy, of course.


P F Tinmore said:


> _Palestine's government suck because Israel destroyed it._


It sucks, just because it sucks.


----------



## Liability

> just what exactly is it?
> 
> i hear the term "right to exist" used quite a bit when speaking of "Palestine" and occasionally, but very rarely, some other states, but no one really explains it or questions the concept.
> 
> i mean, who or what gives _Paliland_ this "right to exist?" who conferred it upon Palestine or was it just expressed generally and is applied to all states and would be states? Does palestine have a right to exist before it becomes a state?  it would seem that such a right to exist would be universal. is it codified or mentioned in some jurisdictional or international legal system? anywhere? does it have any historical or legal precedent or continuity and, if so, from when? where?
> 
> does there ever come a time when such a "right to exist" ceases and, if so, when, where, and how?
> 
> personally, i have no idea whether Palestine ... has a "right to exist." it just seems like a very odd concept with no precedent or standing whatsoever.



And for that matter, who says that Iran has this alleged attribute of statehood?  Does Iran have a "right to exist?"

Now THERE's a strange concept.  Let's challenge it by making Iran cease to exist.

Surely the author of the OP would agree.


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _I'm voting Socialist or Green..._


Windmills of hope and change in the pocket.


----------



## Liability

shaul87 said:


> israel write but also wrong
> israel have two faces



Israel.

You say israel write, so I write israel.  

Learn punctuation, capitalization and logic.

Go.

Now.


----------



## ima

Liability said:


> shaul87 said:
> 
> 
> 
> israel write but also wrong
> israel have two faces
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel.
> 
> You say israel write, so I write israel.
> 
> Learn punctuation, capitalization and logic.
> 
> Go.
> 
> Now.
Click to expand...


Don't listen to this asshole, his hero is a guy who died shooting cocaine and heroin into his arm for 4 days until he croaked. Except this asshole is probably fatter.


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _I'm voting Socialist or Green..._
> 
> 
> 
> Windmills of hope and change in the pocket.
Click to expand...

*And Jill goes to jail.*

"Jill Stein, the Green Party's 2012 presidential candidate, was arrested in Philadelphia Wednesday afternoon during a bank protest sit-in..."

"Said Stein, 'The developers and financiers made trillions of dollars through the housing bubble and the imposition of crushing debt on homeowners. And when homeowners could no longer pay them what they demanded, they went to government and got trillions of dollars of bailouts. 

"'Every effort of the Obama Administration has been to prop this system up and keep it going at taxpayer expense. *It's time for this game to end.* It's time for the laws be written to protect the victims and not the perpetrators.'"

Green Party Presidential Candidate Jill Stein Arrested at Bank Protest | Common Dreams


----------



## Liability

ima said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shaul87 said:
> 
> 
> 
> israel write but also wrong
> israel have two faces
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel.
> 
> You say israel write, so I write israel.
> 
> Learn punctuation, capitalization and logic.
> 
> Go.
> 
> Now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't listen to this asshole, his hero is a guy who died shooting cocaine and heroin into his arm for 4 days until he croaked. Except this asshole is probably fatter.
Click to expand...


It takes a special brand of moron (i.e., ima, the above quoted poster fits the bill) to assume that because I use the avie of a dead comedian, the late comic must be a hero.

No lib is my hero, you fuckwit.

That doesn't mean the man wasn't funny.  However, it's tragic that he's dead largely because (being a lib) he thought he was plenty up to the task of abusing heavy drugs.  

Whoops.


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hoss, I don't hold my country or its strategic assets to a lower moral standard than the rest of the world.
> 
> Does that make me anti-American?
> 
> 
> 
> If not,then you only set your standards a small percentage higher. That's still pretty low. And a citizen shouldn't be bad mouthing his country all the time like a '60s flower child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Citizens have an obligation to "bad mouth" the political hacks who manipulate their country's government on behalf of elites who profit from resource wars, for example.
> 
> Since the end of WWII the most valuable resource has been oil, and the largest concentration of oil is in the Middle East. 150 years ago the most valuable resource was cotton, and Texas was its epicenter.
> 
> What President Polk and his fellow Jacksonian Democrats did from 1846-1848 was exactly what Saddam tried to do in Kuwait in 1990.
> 
> How do you criticize the latter while flapping the flag for the former without appearing hypocritical?
Click to expand...


Good God, man ... do youy have nothing but disdain for America? Did your mama drop you on your pinhead regularly?


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> If not,then you only set your standards a small percentage higher. That's still pretty low. And a citizen shouldn't be bad mouthing his country all the time like a '60s flower child.
> 
> 
> 
> Citizens have an obligation to "bad mouth" the political hacks who manipulate their country's government on behalf of elites who profit from resource wars, for example.
> 
> Since the end of WWII the most valuable resource has been oil, and the largest concentration of oil is in the Middle East. 150 years ago the most valuable resource was cotton, and Texas was its epicenter.
> 
> What President Polk and his fellow Jacksonian Democrats did from 1846-1848 was exactly what Saddam tried to do in Kuwait in 1990.
> 
> How do you criticize the latter while flapping the flag for the former without appearing hypocritical?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good God, man ... do youy have nothing but disdain for America? Did your mama drop you on your pinhead regularly?
Click to expand...

Wanna know where the phrase "American Exceptionalism" came from?

"Although the concept of American exceptionalism may predate the actual term, the phrase 'American exceptionalism' originates from the American Communist Party. 

"The term comes from an English translation of a condemnation made in 1929 by *Soviet leader Joseph Stalin* criticizing Communist supporters of Jay Lovestone for the heretical belief that America was independent of the Marxist laws of history 'thanks to its natural resources, industrial capacity, and absence of rigid class distinctions.'"

American exceptionalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Liability

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Citizens have an obligation to "bad mouth" the political hacks who manipulate their country's government on behalf of elites who profit from resource wars, for example.
> 
> Since the end of WWII the most valuable resource has been oil, and the largest concentration of oil is in the Middle East. 150 years ago the most valuable resource was cotton, and Texas was its epicenter.
> 
> What President Polk and his fellow Jacksonian Democrats did from 1846-1848 was exactly what Saddam tried to do in Kuwait in 1990.
> 
> How do you criticize the latter while flapping the flag for the former without appearing hypocritical?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good God, man ... do youy have nothing but disdain for America? Did your mama drop you on your pinhead regularly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wanna know where the phrase "American Exceptionalism" came from?
> 
> "Although the concept of American exceptionalism may predate the actual term, the phrase 'American exceptionalism' originates from the American Communist Party.
> 
> "The term comes from an English translation of a condemnation made in 1929 by *Soviet leader Joseph Stalin* criticizing Communist supporters of Jay Lovestone for the heretical belief that America was independent of the Marxist laws of history 'thanks to its natural resources, industrial capacity, and absence of rigid class distinctions.'"
> 
> American exceptionalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...



Oh golly gee willikers.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Somebody used that term before it took on the actual meaning it has today.

And it was commie shit, too.

As always, georgieporgie makes no point.


----------



## georgephillip

Is that a picture of your latest rape victim?

Is she "legitimate"?


----------



## P F Tinmore

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _I'm voting Socialist or Green..._
> 
> 
> 
> Windmills of hope and change in the pocket.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *And Jill goes to jail.*
> 
> "Jill Stein, the Green Party's 2012 presidential candidate, was arrested in Philadelphia Wednesday afternoon during a bank protest sit-in..."
> 
> "Said Stein, 'The developers and financiers made trillions of dollars through the housing bubble and the imposition of crushing debt on homeowners. And when homeowners could no longer pay them what they demanded, they went to government and got trillions of dollars of bailouts.
> 
> "'Every effort of the Obama Administration has been to prop this system up and keep it going at taxpayer expense. *It's time for this game to end.* It's time for the laws be written to protect the victims and not the perpetrators.'"
> 
> Green Party Presidential Candidate Jill Stein Arrested at Bank Protest | Common Dreams
Click to expand...


Jill Stein is cool.


----------



## psed007

The first question is: Who are we ? A moment (1433-2012-5772y) later:  Israel's "Right to Exist" ? Of course these are just numbers. We could just say it's bullshit and starting to argue about: Does G'd exist ? Yes G'd exists. You remember ? It's also a media war  and jews and arabs do not like each other. Why not ? We all are some of us more some of us less the victims. You still remember the numbers ? Stop the fucking stupid violence !!! If not, you will die anyhow. It will just be a little sooner  than you expected. No problem. Some of us just thinks that blowing up him- or herself will solve this dilemma. Why ? We can not wait to die ? WTF ? The other side is trying to use democratic laws and laser guided weapons with various warheads. 1 man 1 plane 1 mission 0 megaton or 1000 man 1000 plane and 1000 missions and 1000 megaton minimum  We in the WEST believe mostly that 1000 megatons is not the best solution. We don't take the risk to loose to many lives and our comfort and we are committed to follow rules that longer exists ! Muslim calender exists since 1433 years. The Christians like 2012 better and the Jews 5772 years. Just think over it without any distortion. I see a Muslim child with Christian parents and Jewish grandparent  Nice family !!! So some of us does not want to give the grand parents a place to stay ? Yes Israel has the right to exist !


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Windmills of hope and change in the pocket.
> 
> 
> 
> *And Jill goes to jail.*
> 
> "Jill Stein, the Green Party's 2012 presidential candidate, was arrested in Philadelphia Wednesday afternoon during a bank protest sit-in..."
> 
> "Said Stein, 'The developers and financiers made trillions of dollars through the housing bubble and the imposition of crushing debt on homeowners. And when homeowners could no longer pay them what they demanded, they went to government and got trillions of dollars of bailouts.
> 
> "'Every effort of the Obama Administration has been to prop this system up and keep it going at taxpayer expense. *It's time for this game to end.* It's time for the laws be written to protect the victims and not the perpetrators.'"
> 
> Green Party Presidential Candidate Jill Stein Arrested at Bank Protest | Common Dreams
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jill Stein is cool.
Click to expand...

Perceptive of you, Clyde---She's in the cooler.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *And Jill goes to jail.*
> 
> "Jill Stein, the Green Party's 2012 presidential candidate, was arrested in Philadelphia Wednesday afternoon during a bank protest sit-in..."
> 
> "Said Stein, 'The developers and financiers made trillions of dollars through the housing bubble and the imposition of crushing debt on homeowners. And when homeowners could no longer pay them what they demanded, they went to government and got trillions of dollars of bailouts.
> 
> "'Every effort of the Obama Administration has been to prop this system up and keep it going at taxpayer expense. *It's time for this game to end.* It's time for the laws be written to protect the victims and not the perpetrators.'"
> 
> Green Party Presidential Candidate Jill Stein Arrested at Bank Protest | Common Dreams
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jill Stein is cool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perceptive of you, Clyde---She's in the cooler.
Click to expand...


That means she is really good.


----------



## Liability

georgephillip said:


> Is that a picture of your latest rape victim?
> 
> Is she "legitimate"?



Unlike a pissant motherfucker such as you, I have never raped a woman you rodent twat.  

As is the case with all dishonest shit suckers such as you, you take the dopey words of one guy and attribute that thinking to all who disagree with your narrow-minded idiocy.  Honest you will never be.

Go suck another bag of dicks, you sit stain fly fucker.


----------



## georgephillip

P F Tinmore said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Windmills of hope and change in the pocket.
> 
> 
> 
> *And Jill goes to jail.*
> 
> "Jill Stein, the Green Party's 2012 presidential candidate, was arrested in Philadelphia Wednesday afternoon during a bank protest sit-in..."
> 
> "Said Stein, 'The developers and financiers made trillions of dollars through the housing bubble and the imposition of crushing debt on homeowners. And when homeowners could no longer pay them what they demanded, they went to government and got trillions of dollars of bailouts.
> 
> "'Every effort of the Obama Administration has been to prop this system up and keep it going at taxpayer expense. *It's time for this game to end.* It's time for the laws be written to protect the victims and not the perpetrators.'"
> 
> Green Party Presidential Candidate Jill Stein Arrested at Bank Protest | Common Dreams
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jill Stein is cool.
Click to expand...

*"Stein, a Massachusetts resident and Harvard-educated doctor*, was arrested along with four other Green Party members, the Associated Press reports, including her vice presidential running mate, Cheri Honkala, a single mother who once ran for Philadelphia sheriff.

"The group of at least 50 activists were protesting at the offices of the Federal National Mortgage Association, better known as Fannie Mae, KYW radio, Philadelphia reported.

"'Millions have lost their homes already. Many millions are still in the pipeline,' said Stein, outside of office tower where Fannie Mae's offices are located. '*We are five years into this crisis and effectively nothing has been done about it*.'"

A vote for Mitt or Obama will add another four years to the effectively doing nothing column.
But the 1% will "earn" an even greater percentage of US income and wealth than they do today.
Obviously, that's all that matters?

Green Party Presidential Candidate Jill Stein Arrested at Bank Protest | Common Dreams


----------



## georgephillip

Liability said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that a picture of your latest rape victim?
> 
> Is she "legitimate"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike a pissant motherfucker such as you, I have never raped a woman you rodent twat.
> 
> As is the case with all dishonest shit suckers such as you, you take the dopey words of one guy and attribute that thinking to all who disagree with your narrow-minded idiocy.  Honest you will never be.
> 
> Go suck another bag of dicks, you sit stain fly fucker.
Click to expand...

In summation, Your Honor, "Sit Stain Fly Fucker" alleges he has never raped a woman.
Does that mean he's stopped fucking his dog?
How about the local altar boy?
The altar boy's rodent, perhaps...

Maybe lil'bitchity should just stop pretending he went to school beyond 5th grade?
I rest my case.
Thank-you.


----------



## Sundowner47

Let's see, Israel "reserves the right to use military force against Iran for posing a nuclear threat"??? Wouldn't Iran inhere the same fictive right? Does Israel constitute a "threat" to Iran?? I'm guessing these logical questions are duly censored in our balanced western media. But I am fascinated with Israel's string of putative "rights"....apparently they have the right to steal Palestinian land...the right to construct illegal Jewish settlements...the right to confiscate Arab property, and inflict collective punishment...the right to murder indiscriminately...the right to suck billions from U.S. taxpayers....the right to flout the same international laws that they lecture other states with..."the right to exist"??? Where are these fictive rights inscribed I ask??? What reference are we offered for these rights beyond the twisted, self-entitled, depraved minds of Jews???


----------



## Hossfly

Sundowner47 said:


> Let's see, Israel "reserves the right to use military force against Iran for posing a nuclear threat"??? Wouldn't Iran inhere the same fictive right? Does Israel constitute a "threat" to Iran?? I'm guessing these logical questions are duly censored in our balanced western media. But I am fascinated with Israel's string of putative "rights"....apparently they have the right to steal Palestinian land...the right to construct illegal Jewish settlements...the right to confiscate Arab property, and inflict collective punishment...the right to murder indiscriminately...the right to suck billions from U.S. taxpayers....the right to flout the same international laws that they lecture other states with..."the right to exist"??? Where are these fictive rights inscribed I ask??? What reference are we offered for these rights beyond the twisted, self-entitled, depraved minds of Jews???


The Covenant, man, the Covenant! Get over it.


----------



## Saigon

irosie91 said:


> standard of living        for   THE GENERAL POPULATION     not average of income  -------
> 
> check infant mortality rates-----after  1967   GAZA's is a lot better than  INDONESIA      I will check Tunisia------probably beats tunisia too----certainly beats   egypt



Your point is simply nonsense. 

If the average income in Tunisia was 800 times higher than in Gaza - how is the standard of living better in Gaza?

(And in 1967 Indonesia was having a civil war, so yes, the infant mortality probaby wasn't great that year!)

I just can't for the life of me figure what you think you win with this guessing, bluff and bluster. 

It's like you're a super hero called Mr Anti-Fact or something.


----------



## Sundowner47

Hi there Hoss......


----------



## Ariux

Hossfly said:


> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see, Israel "reserves the right to use military force against Iran for posing a nuclear threat"??? Wouldn't Iran inhere the same fictive right? Does Israel constitute a "threat" to Iran?? I'm guessing these logical questions are duly censored in our balanced western media. But I am fascinated with Israel's string of putative "rights"....apparently they have the right to steal Palestinian land...the right to construct illegal Jewish settlements...the right to confiscate Arab property, and inflict collective punishment...the right to murder indiscriminately...the right to suck billions from U.S. taxpayers....the right to flout the same international laws that they lecture other states with..."the right to exist"??? Where are these fictive rights inscribed I ask??? What reference are we offered for these rights beyond the twisted, self-entitled, depraved minds of Jews???
> 
> 
> 
> The Covenant, man, the Covenant! Get over it.
Click to expand...


The only Covenant God has with Jews is the right to be thrown into the eternal Holocaust.  God stripped the Jews of all privilege, because they killed Jesus.


----------



## courseofhistory

Ariux said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sundowner47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see, Israel "reserves the right to use military force against Iran for posing a nuclear threat"??? Wouldn't Iran inhere the same fictive right? Does Israel constitute a "threat" to Iran?? I'm guessing these logical questions are duly censored in our balanced western media. But I am fascinated with Israel's string of putative "rights"....apparently they have the right to steal Palestinian land...the right to construct illegal Jewish settlements...the right to confiscate Arab property, and inflict collective punishment...the right to murder indiscriminately...the right to suck billions from U.S. taxpayers....the right to flout the same international laws that they lecture other states with..."the right to exist"??? Where are these fictive rights inscribed I ask??? What reference are we offered for these rights beyond the twisted, self-entitled, depraved minds of Jews???
> 
> 
> 
> The Covenant, man, the Covenant! Get over it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only Covenant God has with Jews is the right to be thrown into the eternal Holocaust.  God stripped the Jews of all privilege, because they killed Jesus.
Click to expand...


This is an interpretation I've never understood.  God gave his only begotten son to save us from our sins.  He died for that purpose and yet some blame the Jews for fulfilling a prophecy?  All this religous strife and hate is what has gotten the world into chaos and war.  If God is who people say he is, then he should forgive the Jews (if that's even an issue).  

The fact remains that Israel occupies land that was taken in war like virtually ALL countries have done that exist today.  If the world is ever going to move forward toward peace, we need to forget all the ancient hate and bigotry, go with what we have now and try to peacefully co-exist.  Everyone hates everyone else--the ME hates the US and the ME hates the Jews and on and on.  It's never ending.


----------



## Ariux

courseofhistory said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Covenant, man, the Covenant! Get over it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only Covenant God has with Jews is the right to be thrown into the eternal Holocaust.  God stripped the Jews of all privilege, because they killed Jesus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is an interpretation I've never understood.  God gave his only begotten son to save us from our sins.  He died for that purpose and yet some blame the Jews for fulfilling a prophecy?  All this religous strife and hate is what has gotten the world into chaos and war.  If God is who people say he is, then he should forgive the Jews (if that's even an issue).
Click to expand...


Judas fulfilled prophecy, does that make him a hero?

God didn't forgive the Jews.  Jesus prophesied that Jerusalem would be destroyed as an act of vengeance by God against the Jews for killing him.   Paul says the unbelieving Jews were cut-off.



> The fact remains that Israel occupies land that was taken in war like virtually ALL countries have done that exist today.  If the world is ever going to move forward toward peace, we need to forget all the ancient hate and bigotry, go with what we have now and try to peacefully co-exist.  Everyone hates everyone else--the ME hates the US and the ME hates the Jews and on and on.  It's never ending.



The fact remains that Israel refuses to allow the Palestinians a state, which no other country in the world is guilty of, regarding any population.  

Another fact remains, in the modern world, it's not acceptable to gain land through war.  And, even in ancient history, no population was expected to approve of their conquest just because it was a "done deal" (which isn't even the case here).

And, yet another fact remains.  Israel is the only country in the world that the West supports that is ethnically, openly so, based.


----------



## docmauser1

Sundowner47 said:


> _Let's see, Israel "reserves the right to use military force against Iran for posing a nuclear threat"??? Wouldn't Iran inhere the same fictive right? Does Israel constitute a "threat" to Iran?? I'm guessing these logical questions are duly censored in our balanced western media. But I am fascinated with Israel's string of putative "rights"....apparently they have the right to steal Palestinian land...the right to construct illegal Jewish settlements...the right to confiscate Arab property, and inflict collective punishment...the right to murder indiscriminately...the right to suck billions from U.S. taxpayers....the right to flout the same international laws that they lecture other states with..."the right to exist"??? Where are these fictive rights inscribed I ask??? What reference are we offered for these rights beyond the twisted, self-entitled, depraved minds of Jews???_


It's the will of allah.


----------



## ima

Liability said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel.
> 
> You say israel write, so I write israel.
> 
> Learn punctuation, capitalization and logic.
> 
> Go.
> 
> Now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't listen to this asshole, his hero is a guy who died shooting cocaine and heroin into his arm for 4 days until he croaked. Except this asshole is probably fatter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It takes a special brand of moron (i.e., ima, the above quoted poster fits the bill) to assume that because I use the avie of a dead comedian, the late comic must be a hero.
> 
> No lib is my hero, you fuckwit.
> 
> That doesn't mean the man wasn't funny.  However, it's tragic that he's dead largely because (being a lib) he thought he was plenty up to the task of abusing heavy drugs.
> 
> Whoops.
Click to expand...


I thought it was hilarious that your hero died shooting speedballs. Probably the only funny thing he ever did.


----------



## docmauser1

Ariux said:


> _Israel is the only country in the world that the West supports that is ethnically, openly so, based._


Like Japan, Poland, Hungary, etc.? Funny.


----------



## editec

I so hate the way we've distorted the meaning of the word RIGHT.

We speak of rights as thought they could exist as a stand alone concept.

But rights must always mean something in relation to something else.

Nobody has any rights that are inherent, inalienable or even meaningful unless one also notes what that right is is relation to the greater world.

Israel or Iran can claim their RIGHT to act according to their own desires and that is certainly true..._if they can get away with it._

But those rights could be dened those nations, too.  _By force_

Nobody has any RIGHT that they cannot defend or that is not defended for them by _the other(s). _

If that were NOT the case, then, just as one example, the Founding Fathers would not have had to include the BILL OF RIGHTS into the laws of the land.  Clearly they understood (as so many of you clearly do NOT) that in order to have rights one must AGREE to grant them and have in place a mechanism to insure that they are truly granted, too.

Those citizens rights we have only exist because this nation ELECTS to enforce and defend them.

RIGHTS exist not as a real thing, but instead as an idea we make real in the real world.


----------



## Ariux

docmauser1 said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Israel is the only country in the world that the West supports that is ethnically, openly so, based._
> 
> 
> 
> Like Japan, Poland, Hungary, etc.? Funny.
Click to expand...


You're a f-ing idiot.


----------



## docmauser1

Ariux said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Israel is the only country in the world that the West supports that is ethnically, openly so, based._
> 
> 
> 
> Like Japan, Poland, Hungary, etc.? Funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _You're a f-ing idiot._
Click to expand...

Profanities, like ignorance, isn't an argument, of course.


----------



## Ariux

docmauser1 said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like Japan, Poland, Hungary, etc.? Funny.
> 
> 
> 
> _You're a f-ing idiot._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Profanities, like ignorance, isn't an argument, of course.
Click to expand...


Comparing Israel's apartheid nature, especially America's support of it, to Japan is idiotic.  Shithead, naming countries isn't an argument either.  So, you had no argument for me to refute.


----------



## MJB12741

Talk about declining human IQ's, can this Ariux thing breed?






Ariux said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> _You're a f-ing idiot._
> 
> 
> 
> Profanities, like ignorance, isn't an argument, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Comparing Israel's apartheid nature, especially America's support of it, to Japan is idiotic.  Shithead, naming countries isn't an argument either.  So, you had no argument for me to refute.
Click to expand...


----------



## georgephillip

editec said:


> I so hate the way we've distorted the meaning of the word RIGHT.
> 
> We speak of rights as thought they could exist as a stand alone concept.
> 
> But rights must always mean something in relation to something else.
> 
> Nobody has any rights that are inherent, inalienable or even meaningful unless one also notes what that right is is relation to the greater world.
> 
> Israel or Iran can claim their RIGHT to act according to their own desires and that is certainly true..._if they can get away with it._
> 
> But those rights could be dened those nations, too.  _By force_
> 
> Nobody has any RIGHT that they cannot defend or that is not defended for them by _the other(s). _
> 
> If that were NOT the case, then, just as one example, the Founding Fathers would not have had to include the BILL OF RIGHTS into the laws of the land.  Clearly they understood (as so many of you clearly do NOT) that in order to have rights one must AGREE to grant them and have in place a mechanism to insure that they are truly granted, too.
> 
> Those citizens rights we have only exist because this nation ELECTS to enforce and defend them.
> 
> RIGHTS exist not as a real thing, but instead as an idea we make real in the real world.


If Human Rights exist as "inalienable fundamental rights (legal, social, or ethical principles of freedom or entitlement...) to which a person is inherently entitled simply because she or he is a human being..."

Human rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...maybe we should distinguish between natural and legal rights?

The former are "...not contingent upon the laws, customs, or beliefs of any particular culture or government..." Which might mean the rights exist; however, citizens can and are being denied those rights due to the actions of those who control the monopoly of violence in their society.

Natural and legal rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How do we make the idea of Human Rights real in a world where the Golden Rule means those with the most gold make the rules that control the monopoly of violence?


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _If Human Rights exist as "inalienable fundamental rights (legal, social, or ethical principles of freedom or entitlement...) to which a person is inherently entitled simply because she or he is a human being..."_


Cool, for a debating society of perfessers, of course.


----------



## docmauser1

Ariux said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> _You're a f-ing idiot._
> 
> 
> 
> Profanities, like ignorance, isn't an argument, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Comparing Israel's apartheid nature, especially America's support of it, to Japan is idiotic._
Click to expand...

How so, if Israel and Japan are countries that are:


Ariux said:


> _ethnically, openly so, based._


?


Ariux said:


> _Shithead, naming countries isn't an argument either.  So, you had no argument for me to refute._


Profanities, like ignorance, isn't an argument, of course.


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _If Human Rights exist as "inalienable fundamental rights (legal, social, or ethical principles of freedom or entitlement...) to which a person is inherently entitled simply because she or he is a human being..."_
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, for a debating society of perfessers, of course.
Click to expand...

*Come forth from Canaan, Perfessor Drivel:*

"The ancient world did not possess the concept of universal human rights.[5] 

"Ancient societies had 'elaborate systems of duties... conceptions of justice, political legitimacy, and human flourishing that sought to realize human dignity, flourishing, or well-being entirely independent of human rights'".

Human rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## ima

Why does Israel itself have a "right" to exist? Then do all minorities have a right to a country? All religions as well? What about a country for a race?


----------



## irosie91

ima said:


> Why does Israel itself have a "right" to exist? Then do all minorities have a right to a country? All religions as well? What about a country for a race?[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> Your question is as worthless as your own existence       anyone as utterly idiotic as you can question the EXISTENCE of anything that exists using the same sentence        It is like a party game of  FILL IN THE BLANK
> 
> Why does _____________  have a right to exist?     Do all _____________
> any noun                                                       any noun (plural)
> 
> have a right to exist?


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why does Israel itself have a "right" to exist? Then do all minorities have a right to a country? All religions as well? What about a country for a race?[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> Your question is as worthless as your own existence       anyone as utterly idiotic as you can question the EXISTENCE of anything that exists using the same sentence        It is like a party game of  FILL IN THE BLANK
> 
> Why does _____________  have a right to exist?     Do all _____________
> any noun                                                       any noun (plural)
> 
> have a right to exist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel exists, I get that. But I keep hearing that Israel has a "right" to exist. I guess they mean Israel has a right to exist in Palestine where it is now. But even that, unless they're talking about something "god" gave the Jews, which is fictitious, I never understood why such a right to exist there exists.
> Do you know?
Click to expand...


----------



## georgephillip

I think they mean Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish State in spite of its "demographic problem."


----------



## P F Tinmore

Does Israel have the right to exist inside Palestine?


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Does Israel have the right to exist inside Palestine?


Depends whether or not they throw wild parties.


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does Israel have the right to exist inside Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> Depends whether or not they throw wild parties.
Click to expand...

Does Cast Lead count?


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does Israel have the right to exist inside Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> Depends whether or not they throw wild parties.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does Cast Lead count?
Click to expand...

That wasn't a party party, it was a cake walk.


----------



## Liability

Putting it in quotes was a tell.

Obvious trollish pieces of shit are obviously pieces of shit.


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depends whether or not they throw wild parties.
> 
> 
> 
> Does Cast Lead count?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That wasn't a party party, it was a cake walk.
Click to expand...

*Would you concede a disproportionate cake walk?*

"Disproportionate forceIsrael was widely criticised by human rights groups for using heavy firepower and causing hundreds of civilian casualties.[305] A group of soldiers who took part in the conflict echoed the criticism through both the Israeli NGO Breaking the Silence and a special report by Israeli filmmaker Nurit Kedar that was shown on Britain's Channel 4 in January 2011.[306][307] 

"The United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict concluded that the Israeli military operation was directed at the people of Gaza as a whole, in furtherance of an overall and continuing policy aimed at punishing the Gaza population, and in a deliberate policy of disproportionate force aimed at the civilian population"

Gaza War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> does cast lead count?
> 
> 
> 
> that wasn't a party party, it was a cake walk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *would you concede a disproportionate cake walk?*
> 
> "disproportionate forceisrael was widely criticised by human rights groups for using heavy firepower and causing hundreds of civilian casualties.[305] a group of soldiers who took part in the conflict echoed the criticism through both the israeli ngo breaking the silence and a special report by israeli filmmaker nurit kedar that was shown on britain's channel 4 in january 2011.[306][307]
> 
> "the united nations fact finding mission on the gaza conflict concluded that the israeli military operation was directed at the people of gaza as a whole, in furtherance of an overall and continuing policy aimed at punishing the gaza population, and in a deliberate policy of disproportionate force aimed at the civilian population"
> 
> gaza war - wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

peace thru superior firepower


----------



## P F Tinmore

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does Cast Lead count?
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't a party party, it was a cake walk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Would you concede a disproportionate cake walk?*
> 
> "Disproportionate forceIsrael was widely criticised by human rights groups for using heavy firepower and causing hundreds of civilian casualties.[305] A group of soldiers who took part in the conflict echoed the criticism through both the Israeli NGO Breaking the Silence and a special report by Israeli filmmaker Nurit Kedar that was shown on Britain's Channel 4 in January 2011.[306][307]
> 
> "The United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict concluded that the Israeli military operation was directed at the people of Gaza as a whole, in furtherance of an overall and continuing policy aimed at punishing the Gaza population, and in a deliberate policy of disproportionate force aimed at the civilian population"
> 
> Gaza War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


It was Israel's usual military attack on Palestinian civilians.


----------



## georgephillip

Liability said:


> Putting it in quotes was a tell.
> 
> Obvious trollish pieces of shit are obviously pieces of shit.


You're starting the sound like Belushi.
Maybe it's time for a new avatar?

Israel can be a "Jewish" state or a "Democratic" state but even Trolls for Zion can't have it both ways.


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putting it in quotes was a tell.
> 
> Obvious trollish pieces of shit are obviously pieces of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> You're starting the sound like Belushi.
> Maybe it's time for a new avatar?
> 
> Israel can be a "Jewish" state or a "Democratic" state but even Trolls for Zion can't have it both ways.
Click to expand...

George, read the last sentence in the first paragraph.

Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Hossfly

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putting it in quotes was a tell.
> 
> Obvious trollish pieces of shit are obviously pieces of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> You're starting the sound like Belushi.
> Maybe it's time for a new avatar?
> 
> Israel can be a "Jewish" state or a "Democratic" state but even Trolls for Zion can't have it both ways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> George, read the last sentence in the first paragraph.
> 
> Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

Or this explanation.

A Jewish and Democratic State - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## irosie91

Saudi arabia can be a   an  ISLAMIC CESSPIT LUMP OF DUNG ----or it can be a state------it chooses to be a lump of dung in accordance with the precepts of the rapist pig born there---there are dozens of other places that choose to be cesspits of nabi filth


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> Saudi arabia can be a   an  ISLAMIC CESSPIT LUMP OF DUNG ----or it can be a state------it chooses to be a lump of dung in accordance with the precepts of the rapist pig born there---there are dozens of other places that choose to be cesspits of nabi filth



It is nice to know that Palestine is not like Saudi Arabia.


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't a party party, it was a cake walk.
> 
> 
> 
> *Would you concede a disproportionate cake walk?*
> 
> "Disproportionate forceIsrael was widely criticised by human rights groups for using heavy firepower and causing hundreds of civilian casualties.[305] A group of soldiers who took part in the conflict echoed the criticism through both the Israeli NGO Breaking the Silence and a special report by Israeli filmmaker Nurit Kedar that was shown on Britain's Channel 4 in January 2011.[306][307]
> 
> "The United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict concluded that the Israeli military operation was directed at the people of Gaza as a whole, in furtherance of an overall and continuing policy aimed at punishing the Gaza population, and in a deliberate policy of disproportionate force aimed at the civilian population"
> 
> Gaza War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was Israel's usual military attack on Palestinian civilians.
Click to expand...


Adolf Hitler was a civiliian     Osama bin laden was a civilian   the rapist pig lump of excrement of arabia was a civilian too.      Jack the ripper was a civilian


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Would you concede a disproportionate cake walk?*
> 
> "Disproportionate forceIsrael was widely criticised by human rights groups for using heavy firepower and causing hundreds of civilian casualties.[305] A group of soldiers who took part in the conflict echoed the criticism through both the Israeli NGO Breaking the Silence and a special report by Israeli filmmaker Nurit Kedar that was shown on Britain's Channel 4 in January 2011.[306][307]
> 
> "The United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict concluded that the Israeli military operation was directed at the people of Gaza as a whole, in furtherance of an overall and continuing policy aimed at punishing the Gaza population, and in a deliberate policy of disproportionate force aimed at the civilian population"
> 
> Gaza War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was Israel's usual military attack on Palestinian civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Adolf Hitler was a civiliian     Osama bin laden was a civilian   the rapist pig lump of excrement of arabia was a civilian too.      Jack the ripper was a civilian
Click to expand...


Is there a point in here someplace?


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was Israel's usual military attack on Palestinian civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Adolf Hitler was a civiliian     Osama bin laden was a civilian   the rapist pig lump of excrement of arabia was a civilian too.      Jack the ripper was a civilian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is there a point in here someplace?
Click to expand...



as you well know-----the pigs of mecca do not admit that they are  MUJAHADEEN DOGS who slit the throats of infants in order to escite their disgusting rag clad sluts     -----and never  did----they pretend to be humans.    The rapist pig ibn amna had no military rank----he was a civilian lump of shit too.         just like   Adolf abu ali Hitler and just about every other disgusting lump of shit murderer and rapist in history


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Adolf Hitler was a civiliian     Osama bin laden was a civilian   the rapist pig lump of excrement of arabia was a civilian too.      Jack the ripper was a civilian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a point in here someplace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> as you well know-----the pigs of mecca do not admit that they are  MUJAHADEEN DOGS who slit the throats of infants in order to escite their disgusting rag clad sluts     -----and never  did----they pretend to be humans.    The rapist pig ibn amna had no military rank----he was a civilian lump of shit too.         just like   Adolf abu ali Hitler and just about every other disgusting lump of shit murderer and rapist in history
Click to expand...


Could you translate all that crapola into a coherent thought?


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a point in here someplace?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> as you well know-----the pigs of mecca do not admit that they are  MUJAHADEEN DOGS who slit the throats of infants in order to escite their disgusting rag clad sluts     -----and never  did----they pretend to be humans.    The rapist pig ibn amna had no military rank----he was a civilian lump of shit too.         just like   Adolf abu ali Hitler and just about every other disgusting lump of shit murderer and rapist in history
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Could you translate all that crapola into a coherent thought?
Click to expand...


are you literate in any language?     is anyone in your masjid literate?


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> as you well know-----the pigs of mecca do not admit that they are  MUJAHADEEN DOGS who slit the throats of infants in order to escite their disgusting rag clad sluts     -----and never  did----they pretend to be humans.    The rapist pig ibn amna had no military rank----he was a civilian lump of shit too.         just like   Adolf abu ali Hitler and just about every other disgusting lump of shit murderer and rapist in history
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could you translate all that crapola into a coherent thought?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> are you literate in any language?     is anyone in your masjid literate?
Click to expand...


I am quite literate.

But I am not fluent in blabber.


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could you translate all that crapola into a coherent thought?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> are you literate in any language?     is anyone in your masjid literate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am quite literate.
> 
> But I am not fluent in blabber.
Click to expand...



that parroting of  khutbah jumaat feces and jihado nazi vomitus is not "LITERACY"     it is feces spitting


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putting it in quotes was a tell.
> 
> Obvious trollish pieces of shit are obviously pieces of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> You're starting the sound like Belushi.
> Maybe it's time for a new avatar?
> 
> Israel can be a "Jewish" state or a "Democratic" state but even Trolls for Zion can't have it both ways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> George, read the last sentence in the first paragraph.
> 
> Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

"Israel is defined as a Jewish and Democratic State in its Basic Laws and is the world's only Jewish-majority state."

When do all citizens living under Israeli civil and military laws get their chance to vote?

Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## georgephillip

irosie91 said:


> Saudi arabia can be a   an  ISLAMIC CESSPIT LUMP OF DUNG ----or it can be a state------it chooses to be a lump of dung in accordance with the precepts of the rapist pig born there---there are dozens of other places that choose to be cesspits of nabi filth


When did Saudi Arabia claim to be a Democracy?


----------



## irosie91

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Saudi arabia can be a   an  ISLAMIC CESSPIT LUMP OF DUNG ----or it can be a state------it chooses to be a lump of dung in accordance with the precepts of the rapist pig born there---there are dozens of other places that choose to be cesspits of nabi filth
> 
> 
> 
> When did Saudi Arabia claim to be a Democracy?
Click to expand...



you are diverting again     There are very decent  Monarchies in the world----Monarchy is not DEFINED  as    'cesspit of shariah shit"       there are several   cesspits of shairiah shit that do call themselves   Democracies       you are grasping at straws in order to justify the filth you support     Yemen calls itself a  DEMOCRACY        it is just as much a shariah shithole as is saudi arabia


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're starting the sound like Belushi.
> Maybe it's time for a new avatar?
> 
> Israel can be a "Jewish" state or a "Democratic" state but even Trolls for Zion can't have it both ways.
> 
> 
> 
> George, read the last sentence in the first paragraph.
> 
> Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or this explanation.
> 
> A Jewish and Democratic State - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

*"The Jewish and Democratic Nature of the State of Israel*

"The Jewish nature of the state of Israel was outlined already in Israel's Declaration of Independence, as it was read during the Proclamation ceremony in 14 May 1948. The document defines the state of Israel as 'A Jewish State in Eretz-Israel [land of Israel]',[1] while the word 'Democratic' is absent throughout the entire document

A Jewish and Democratic State - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know there's "lip service" paid to the rights of other races and religions; however, that seems to be falling out of favor, particularly among some recent migrants to Israel.


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're starting the sound like Belushi.
> Maybe it's time for a new avatar?
> 
> Israel can be a "Jewish" state or a "Democratic" state but even Trolls for Zion can't have it both ways.
> 
> 
> 
> George, read the last sentence in the first paragraph.
> 
> Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Israel is defined as a Jewish and Democratic State in its Basic Laws and is the world's only Jewish-majority state."
> 
> When do all citizens living under Israeli civil and military laws get their chance to vote?
> 
> Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


It doesn't seem to matter how often your silly ElectronicIntifada/al Jazeera camel crap is countered, you simply let the dust settle and regurgitate it once again.
Israel's citizens Arab and non-Arab, have the right to vote in Israeli elections and the non-Israeli citizens vote in the elections of whatever country they come from.
That's how it works here also. Non-American citizens do not vote in our elections.


----------



## Sundowner47

but Sayit...you succeed in "countering" nothing....this is part-n-parcel of your delusion.....being a creature of habit, you cannot help but to return to the tired script-well from which you dip your ladle daily...


----------



## irosie91

Lots of words and no meaning         I like this one    " tired script-well from which you dip your ladle daily..."    <<<< dredged up with feces encrusted claws from the cesspit of the goebbels archive


----------



## georgephillip

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was Israel's usual military attack on Palestinian civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Adolf Hitler was a civiliian     Osama bin laden was a civilian   the rapist pig lump of excrement of arabia was a civilian too.      Jack the ripper was a civilian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is there a point in here someplace?
Click to expand...

Let's kill all the damn civilians!


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> George, read the last sentence in the first paragraph.
> 
> Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> "Israel is defined as a Jewish and Democratic State in its Basic Laws and is the world's only Jewish-majority state."
> 
> When do all citizens living under Israeli civil and military laws get their chance to vote?
> 
> Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't seem to matter how often your silly ElectronicIntifada/al Jazeera camel crap is countered, you simply let the dust settle and regurgitate it once again.
> Israel's citizens Arab and non-Arab, have the right to vote in Israeli elections and the non-Israeli citizens vote in the elections of whatever country they come from.
> That's how it works here also. Non-American citizens do not vote in our elections.
Click to expand...

Why aren't all citizens of Area C allowed to vote in Israeli elections since they live under Israeli laws and pay Israeli taxes?


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> but Sayit...you succeed in "countering" nothing....this is part-n-parcel of your delusion.....being a creature of habit, you cannot help but to return to the tired script-well from which you dip your ladle daily...



As a board recognized "goat sucker" you need to sit quietly in the corner and wait for an adult to address you before you post, Princess.


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Israel is defined as a Jewish and Democratic State in its Basic Laws and is the world's only Jewish-majority state."
> 
> When do all citizens living under Israeli civil and military laws get their chance to vote?
> 
> Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't seem to matter how often your silly ElectronicIntifada/al Jazeera camel crap is countered, you simply let the dust settle and regurgitate it once again.
> Israel's citizens Arab and non-Arab, have the right to vote in Israeli elections and the non-Israeli citizens vote in the elections of whatever country they come from.
> That's how it works here also. Non-American citizens do not vote in our elections.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why aren't all citizens of Area C allowed to vote in Israeli elections since they live under Israeli laws and pay Israeli taxes?
Click to expand...


Non-citizen residents of all countries live under the their hosts laws and pay taxes to that country yet do not vote. The question is your obsession with the fact that this is also Israel's policy. 
Is there a reason (as if we don't know) why you are fixated on Israel?


----------



## irosie91

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't seem to matter how often your silly ElectronicIntifada/al Jazeera camel crap is countered, you simply let the dust settle and regurgitate it once again.
> Israel's citizens Arab and non-Arab, have the right to vote in Israeli elections and the non-Israeli citizens vote in the elections of whatever country they come from.
> That's how it works here also. Non-American citizens do not vote in our elections.
> 
> 
> 
> Why aren't all citizens of Area C allowed to vote in Israeli elections since they live under Israeli laws and pay Israeli taxes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Non-citizen residents of all countries live under the their hosts laws and pay taxes to that country yet do not vote. The question is your obsession with the fact that this is also Israel's
> policy.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a reason (as if we don't know) why you are fixated on Israel?
Click to expand...

 << that's
like asking if there was a reason why  Adolf abu ali hitler was fixated on jews?


----------



## Saigon

irosie91 said:


> There are very decent  Monarchies in the world----Monarchy is not DEFINED  as    'cesspit of shariah shit"       there are several   cesspits of shairiah shit that do call themselves   Democracies       you are grasping at straws in order to justify the filth you support     Yemen calls itself a  DEMOCRACY        it is just as much a shariah shithole as is saudi arabia



There are also many Islamic democracies, but you refuse to consider those because of your inexplicable obsession with legal systems. 

Neither Yemen nor Saudi Arabia are democraies - but Malaysia, Bangladesh and Tunisia are.


----------



## irosie91

Saigon said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are very decent  Monarchies in the world----Monarchy is not DEFINED  as    'cesspit of shariah shit"       there are several   cesspits of shairiah shit that do call themselves   Democracies       you are grasping at straws in order to justify the filth you support     Yemen calls itself a  DEMOCRACY        it is just as much a shariah shithole as is saudi arabia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are also many Islamic democracies, but you refuse to consider those because of your inexplicable obsession with legal systems.
> 
> Neither Yemen nor Saudi Arabia are democraies - but Malaysia, Bangladesh and Tunisia are.
Click to expand...

'



try again    I am not the person who brought up the issue------Yemen is sorta a democracy--------and there are some shariah shit holes that do have a democratic government   SO?      ---they are still shit holes      I certainly did not suggest that the shariah shit hole is a democracy-----but it really does not matter       a shariah shit hole is a shariah shit hole----no matter what the form of the government.     I am not obesessed with forcing barbaric shariah shit holes to become  democracies-----that was  BUSH      not me------nothing can help when the people of a country WANT to be a shariah shit hole.    shit stays shit


----------



## P F Tinmore

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUViCujPRnA&feature=related]Who Said Israel Has A Right To Exist? - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## irosie91

two incoherent sluts


----------



## georgephillip

irosie91 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Saudi arabia can be a   an  ISLAMIC CESSPIT LUMP OF DUNG ----or it can be a state------it chooses to be a lump of dung in accordance with the precepts of the rapist pig born there---there are dozens of other places that choose to be cesspits of nabi filth
> 
> 
> 
> When did Saudi Arabia claim to be a Democracy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> you are diverting again     There are very decent  Monarchies in the world----Monarchy is not DEFINED  as    'cesspit of shariah shit"       there are several   cesspits of shairiah shit that do call themselves   Democracies       you are grasping at straws in order to justify the filth you support     Yemen calls itself a  DEMOCRACY        it is just as much a shariah shithole as is saudi arabia
Click to expand...

Citizens of Yemen are routinely assassinated by "very decent" officials in the US Government.
Why aren't you complaining about that filth?
Would that prove up$etting to your ha$bara handler$?


----------



## irosie91

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did Saudi Arabia claim to be a Democracy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you are diverting again     There are very decent  Monarchies in the world----Monarchy is not DEFINED  as    'cesspit of shariah shit"       there are several   cesspits of shairiah shit that do call themselves   Democracies       you are grasping at straws in order to justify the filth you support     Yemen calls itself a  DEMOCRACY        it is just as much a shariah shithole as is saudi arabia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Citizens of Yemen are routinely assassinated by "very decent" officials in the US Government.
> Why aren't you complaining about that filth?
> Would that prove up$etting to your ha$bara handler$?
Click to expand...



The USA   assassinated one person in Yemen who was himself a murderer and inspired american jihadist pigs to murder in the USA to your delight        Some assassinations are celebrated by decent people       Your statement   "Citizens of Yemen are routinely assassinated by "very decent" officials in the US Government."    is an ISLAMONAZI SHIT CLAW LIE              and galvanized by the ideology of the rapist murdering child molesting pig of arabia who himself died of the  POISON fed him by a brave jewish heroine


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't seem to matter how often your silly ElectronicIntifada/al Jazeera camel crap is countered, you simply let the dust settle and regurgitate it once again.
> Israel's citizens Arab and non-Arab, have the right to vote in Israeli elections and the non-Israeli citizens vote in the elections of whatever country they come from.
> That's how it works here also. Non-American citizens do not vote in our elections.
> 
> 
> 
> Why aren't all citizens of Area C allowed to vote in Israeli elections since they live under Israeli laws and pay Israeli taxes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Non-citizen residents of all countries live under the their hosts laws and pay taxes to that country yet do not vote. The question is your obsession with the fact that this is also Israel's policy.
> Is there a reason (as if we don't know) why you are fixated on Israel?
Click to expand...

*Do we agree that Area C is NOT part of the country called Israel?*


----------



## irosie91

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why aren't all citizens of Area C allowed to vote in Israeli elections since they live under Israeli laws and pay Israeli taxes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Non-citizen residents of all countries live under the their hosts laws and pay taxes to that country yet do not vote. The question is your obsession with the fact that this is also Israel's policy.
> Is there a reason (as if we don't know) why you are fixated on Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Do we agree that Area C is NOT part of the country called Israel?*
Click to expand...


not yet-----borders change incessantly in the real world.   I am not even sure in which  "COUNTRY"    my great grand parents were born-----all I know is ---somewhere in the AUSTRIAN HAPSBURG EMPIRE ---because the borders changed so much and they spoke a few languages    including Yiddish     The borders of modern Israel were never established because islamo nazi pigs would not recognize the existence of Israel     In fact  CITIZENSHIPS change too      According to the nuremburg laws jews essentially had no citizen ship      In the islamo nazi pig country  MALDIVES    all people who refuse to lick the dung of the  rapist  pig or arabia ---LOST THEIR CITIZENSHIP     Be patient     soon the borders will be established


----------



## ima

Can nobody answer me why a country called Israel has a right to exist? What right? Written where?


----------



## georgephillip

irosie91 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> you are diverting again     There are very decent  Monarchies in the world----Monarchy is not DEFINED  as    'cesspit of shariah shit"       there are several   cesspits of shairiah shit that do call themselves   Democracies       you are grasping at straws in order to justify the filth you support     Yemen calls itself a  DEMOCRACY        it is just as much a shariah shithole as is saudi arabia
> 
> 
> 
> Citizens of Yemen are routinely assassinated by "very decent" officials in the US Government.
> Why aren't you complaining about that filth?
> Would that prove up$etting to your ha$bara handler$?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The USA   assassinated one person in Yemen who was himself a murderer and inspired american jihadist pigs to murder in the USA to your delight        Some assassinations are celebrated by decent people       Your statement   "Citizens of Yemen are routinely assassinated by "very decent" officials in the US Government."    is an ISLAMONAZI SHIT CLAW LIE              and galvanized by the ideology of the rapist murdering child molesting pig of arabia who himself died of the  POISON fed him by a brave jewish heroine
Click to expand...

"RELATIVES OF *three American citizens* who were killed last autumn by US drone attacks in Yemen have filed a lawsuit against Central Intelligence Agency and military officials, in the first constitutional challenge to the Obama administration&#8217;s widespread use of such weapons to assassinate presumed enemies."

Families of US victims sue over drone strike on Yemen - The Irish Times - Fri, Jul 20, 2012

Muslims from Pakistan to Yemen are routinely murdered by US drones.
Soon the New Evil Empire will no longer be able to borrow enough money to continue killing innocent Muslims on the opposite side of the planet.
Will you then apologize for the routine murders of innocent Catholics in Mexico?


----------



## irosie91

Muslims always get annoyed when their infant throat slitting friends and relatives are executed        the father of your hero in TOULOUSE who honored allah by grabbing a four year old girl by the hair and blowing her brains out and also murdered a few cops for allah----is annoyed that his good muslim son ended up dead-----so he is sueing the french police           that is ISLAM          in an islamic court the father would WIN   based on the  "BEAUTY OF SHARIAH"


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> Muslims always get annoyed when their infant throat slitting friends and relatives are executed        the father of your hero in TOULOUSE who honored allah by grabbing a four year old girl by the hair and blowing her brains out and also murdered a few cops for allah----is annoyed that his good muslim son ended up dead-----so he is sueing the french police           that is ISLAM          in an islamic court the father would WIN   based on the  "BEAUTY OF SHARIAH"



Why does a country called Israel have a right to exist? What right? Written where?


----------



## georgephillip

irosie91 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Non-citizen residents of all countries live under the their hosts laws and pay taxes to that country yet do not vote. The question is your obsession with the fact that this is also Israel's policy.
> Is there a reason (as if we don't know) why you are fixated on Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> *Do we agree that Area C is NOT part of the country called Israel?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> not yet-----borders change incessantly in the real world.   I am not even sure in which  "COUNTRY"    my great grand parents were born-----all I know is ---somewhere in the AUSTRIAN HAPSBURG EMPIRE ---because the borders changed so much and they spoke a few languages    including Yiddish     The borders of modern Israel were never established because islamo nazi pigs would not recognize the existence of Israel     In fact  CITIZENSHIPS change too      According to the nuremburg laws jews essentially had no citizen ship      In the islamo nazi pig country  MALDIVES    all people who refuse to lick the dung of the  rapist  pig or arabia ---LOST THEIR CITIZENSHIP     Be patient     soon the borders will be established
Click to expand...

I'm sure your great grand parents were born prior to 1949, right?

"The Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, commonly referred to as the Fourth Geneva Convention and abbreviated as GCIV, is one of the four treaties of the Geneva Conventions. 

"It was adopted in August 1949, and defines humanitarian protections for civilians in a war zone, and outlaws the practice of total war. There are currently 194 countries party to the 1949 Geneva Conventions, including this fourth treaty but also including the other three."

Fourth Geneva Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Israel has no legal right to annex Area C, regardless of your constant stream of deflections about the MALDIVES and other assorted Muslim crimes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Non-citizen residents of all countries live under the their hosts laws and pay taxes to that country yet do not vote. The question is your obsession with the fact that this is also Israel's policy.
> Is there a reason (as if we don't know) why you are fixated on Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> *Do we agree that Area C is NOT part of the country called Israel?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> not yet-----borders change incessantly in the real world.   I am not even sure in which  "COUNTRY"    my great grand parents were born-----all I know is ---somewhere in the AUSTRIAN HAPSBURG EMPIRE ---because the borders changed so much and they spoke a few languages    including Yiddish     The borders of modern Israel were never established because islamo nazi pigs would not recognize the existence of Israel     In fact  CITIZENSHIPS change too      According to the nuremburg laws jews essentially had no citizen ship      In the islamo nazi pig country  MALDIVES    all people who refuse to lick the dung of the  rapist  pig or arabia ---LOST THEIR CITIZENSHIP     Be patient     soon the borders will be established
Click to expand...




> The borders of modern Israel were never established because...



Because it has no land to put a border around.


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Do we agree that Area C is NOT part of the country called Israel?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not yet-----borders change incessantly in the real world.   I am not even sure in which  "COUNTRY"    my great grand parents were born-----all I know is ---somewhere in the AUSTRIAN HAPSBURG EMPIRE ---because the borders changed so much and they spoke a few languages    including Yiddish     The borders of modern Israel were never established because islamo nazi pigs would not recognize the existence of Israel     In fact  CITIZENSHIPS change too      According to the nuremburg laws jews essentially had no citizen ship      In the islamo nazi pig country  MALDIVES    all people who refuse to lick the dung of the  rapist  pig or arabia ---LOST THEIR CITIZENSHIP     Be patient     soon the borders will be established
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The borders of modern Israel were never established because...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because it has no land to put a border around.
Click to expand...


you have expressed the filth of the islamo nazi pig viewpoint.   In fact according to islamo nazi filth-----Spain is a "MUSLIM COUNTRY"   and should function under the stench of shariah-----According to the ideology of your hero islamo nazi pig  Adolf Hitler ---dhimmia would be appropriate for   christian POLES    since he did not consider then to be true aryans-----but would have liked to enslave them to aryans  ----ie he favored shariah modfied to    the concept of  DEUTCHLAND UBER ALLES 

it all FITS BEAUTIFULLY        no wonder you find it so appealing


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> not yet-----borders change incessantly in the real world.   I am not even sure in which  "COUNTRY"    my great grand parents were born-----all I know is ---somewhere in the AUSTRIAN HAPSBURG EMPIRE ---because the borders changed so much and they spoke a few languages    including Yiddish     The borders of modern Israel were never established because islamo nazi pigs would not recognize the existence of Israel     In fact  CITIZENSHIPS change too      According to the nuremburg laws jews essentially had no citizen ship      In the islamo nazi pig country  MALDIVES    all people who refuse to lick the dung of the  rapist  pig or arabia ---LOST THEIR CITIZENSHIP     Be patient     soon the borders will be established
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The borders of modern Israel were never established because...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because it has no land to put a border around.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you have expressed the filth of the islamo nazi pig viewpoint.   In fact according to islamo nazi filth-----Spain is a "MUSLIM COUNTRY"   and should function under the stench of shariah-----According to the ideology of your hero islamo nazi pig  Adolf Hitler ---dhimmia would be appropriate for   christian POLES    since he did not consider then to be true aryans-----but would have liked to enslave them to aryans  ----ie he favored shariah modfied to    the concept of  DEUTCHLAND UBER ALLES
> 
> it all FITS BEAUTIFULLY        no wonder you find it so appealing
Click to expand...


Do you always talk out your ass?


----------



## Billo_Really

irosie91 said:


> you have expressed the filth of the islamo nazi pig viewpoint.


No, you have!  There's virtually no difference between the hatred in your heart and the hatred in theirs.  You both view an entire group of people as "sub-human".  And your only goal, is to spread as much hatred as you possibly can.



> _Israels Culture of Hate
> 
> The rightist Israeli governments of recent years, by making it quite apparent that they see no place for free Palestinians in a peaceful picture with *Israel, have reinforced a nationwide tendency to view Palestinians as something less than human beings *with inalienable human rights.
> 
> And that tendency leads to a legitimization of violence against them. In speaking critically about the effects of such legitimization, Professor Gavriel Salomon of Haifa University notes,* Suddenly its not so terrible to burn Arabs inside a taxi. *_


We last saw this kind of hatred in the South directed against blacks and before that, in Germany during the '30's.  And just like the nazis and the KKK, a lot of that hatred stems from the fact that they viewed themselves as the "master race".



> _"[Israel's] *national fundamentalism that is the same as the rhetoric of neo-Nazis, Taliban and K.K.K.* This comes from an entire culture that has been escalating toward an open and blunt language based on us being the chosen people who are allowed to do whatever we like._


You reap what you sow.


----------



## Billo_Really

P F Tinmore said:


> Do you always talk out your ass?


Mmmmm.............you might have something here!

Maybe that's why, when I asked her earlier how she said no to butt stuff, she refused to answer.


----------



## dnsmith35

irosie91 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> you are diverting again     There are very decent  Monarchies in the world----Monarchy is not DEFINED  as    'cesspit of shariah shit"       there are several   cesspits of shairiah shit that do call themselves   Democracies       you are grasping at straws in order to justify the filth you support     Yemen calls itself a  DEMOCRACY        it is just as much a shariah shithole as is saudi arabia
> 
> 
> 
> Citizens of Yemen are routinely assassinated by "very decent" officials in the US Government.
> Why aren't you complaining about that filth?
> Would that prove up$etting to your ha$bara handler$?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The USA   assassinated one person in Yemen who was himself a murderer and inspired american jihadist pigs to murder in the USA to your delight        Some assassinations are celebrated by decent people       Your statement   "Citizens of Yemen are routinely assassinated by "very decent" officials in the US Government."    is an ISLAMONAZI SHIT CLAW LIE              and galvanized by the ideology of the rapist murdering child molesting pig of arabia who himself died of the  POISON fed him by a brave jewish heroine
Click to expand...


I suspect he took something Noam Chomsky said and took it to heart. Noam Chomsky is an expert on linguistics and a dumbass about the middle east and politics. It takes a certain kind of ignorance to believe anything he says.


----------



## georgephillip

Who's a credible authority on politics and the Middle East in your opinion?


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Who's a credible authority on politics and the Middle East in your opinion?


No one can top Bibi.


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who's a credible authority on politics and the Middle East in your opinion?
> 
> 
> 
> No one can top Bibi.
Click to expand...

Chomsky and Bibi agree on Israel's role in US foreign policy:

"QUESTION: What role does Israel play in the US view?

CHOMSKY: Exactly the role the US National Security Council assigned it in 1958, namely, to be a bulwark against Arab nationalism. Israel was chosen because it is a dependable base for Western dominance in this region. In the 60s this became reality. 

"The Americans feared the effects of Egyptian nationalism on Saudi Arabia's stability, with a consequent threat to American oil interests. The war of June 1967 dealt a severe blow to this struggle for independence. The event proved pivotal for Israeli-American relations. Israel became a virtual appendage of the US, in other words, another American 'ally,' to which the US could turn whenever it wanted a task accomplished."

Israel in Global Context, Noam Chomsky interviewed by Ludwig Watzal


----------



## dnsmith35

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who's a credible authority on politics and the Middle East in your opinion?
> 
> 
> 
> No one can top Bibi.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Chomsky and Bibi agree on Israel's role in US foreign policy:
> 
> "QUESTION: What role does Israel play in the US view?
> 
> CHOMSKY: Exactly the role the US National Security Council assigned it in 1958, namely, to be a bulwark against Arab nationalism. Israel was chosen because it is a dependable base for Western dominance in this region. In the 60s this became reality.
> 
> "The Americans feared the effects of Egyptian nationalism on Saudi Arabia's stability, with a consequent threat to American oil interests. The war of June 1967 dealt a severe blow to this struggle for independence. The event proved pivotal for Israeli-American relations. Israel became a virtual appendage of the US, in other words, another American 'ally,' to which the US could turn whenever it wanted a task accomplished."
> 
> Israel in Global Context, Noam Chomsky interviewed by Ludwig Watzal
Click to expand...

Actually, Israel should have been formed 20 odd years earlier as the British Mandate called for a Jewish State and a "Palistinian" state. Trans Jordan was created to be the parent nation of the Palestinian State.


----------



## P F Tinmore

dnsmith35 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one can top Bibi.
> 
> 
> 
> Chomsky and Bibi agree on Israel's role in US foreign policy:
> 
> "QUESTION: What role does Israel play in the US view?
> 
> CHOMSKY: Exactly the role the US National Security Council assigned it in 1958, namely, to be a bulwark against Arab nationalism. Israel was chosen because it is a dependable base for Western dominance in this region. In the 60s this became reality.
> 
> "The Americans feared the effects of Egyptian nationalism on Saudi Arabia's stability, with a consequent threat to American oil interests. The war of June 1967 dealt a severe blow to this struggle for independence. The event proved pivotal for Israeli-American relations. Israel became a virtual appendage of the US, in other words, another American 'ally,' to which the US could turn whenever it wanted a task accomplished."
> 
> Israel in Global Context, Noam Chomsky interviewed by Ludwig Watzal
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, Israel should have been formed 20 odd years earlier as the British Mandate called for a Jewish State and a "Palistinian" state. Trans Jordan was created to be the parent nation of the Palestinian State.
Click to expand...




> ...the British Mandate called for a Jewish State and a "Palistinian" state.



No it didn't.


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who's a credible authority on politics and the Middle East in your opinion?
> 
> 
> 
> No one can top Bibi.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Chomsky and Bibi agree on Israel's role in US foreign policy:
> 
> "QUESTION: What role does Israel play in the US view?
> 
> CHOMSKY: Exactly the role the US National Security Council assigned it in 1958, namely, to be a bulwark against Arab nationalism. Israel was chosen because it is a dependable base for Western dominance in this region. In the 60s this became reality.
> 
> "The Americans feared the effects of Egyptian nationalism on Saudi Arabia's stability, with a consequent threat to American oil interests. The war of June 1967 dealt a severe blow to this struggle for independence. The event proved pivotal for Israeli-American relations. Israel became a virtual appendage of the US, in other words, another American 'ally,' to which the US could turn whenever it wanted a task accomplished."
> 
> Israel in Global Context, Noam Chomsky interviewed by Ludwig Watzal
Click to expand...


Chumpsky makes a vald point (even a blind squirel stumbles across the occasional berry) but as is his penchant, adds an anti-American twist.
In this case, "America's oil interests" is made to sound like "evil America" when the fact is the world depends on a steady stream of affordable oil. Protecting the Mideast conduit falls on the US because nobody else on the planet can do it and if we can use Israel in any way, we should do so.


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why aren't all citizens of Area C allowed to vote in Israeli elections since they live under Israeli laws and pay Israeli taxes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Non-citizen residents of all countries live under the their hosts laws and pay taxes to that country yet do not vote. The question is your obsession with the fact that this is also Israel's policy.
> Is there a reason (as if we don't know) why you are fixated on Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Do we agree that Area C is NOT part of the country called Israel?*
Click to expand...


You failed to answer my question before positing another of your own, Princess. That's so typical of you but I will, nonetheless, answer yours: Not yet.
So why are you fixated on Israel?


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Do we agree that Area C is NOT part of the country called Israel?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not yet-----borders change incessantly in the real world.   I am not even sure in which  "COUNTRY"    my great grand parents were born-----all I know is ---somewhere in the AUSTRIAN HAPSBURG EMPIRE ---because the borders changed so much and they spoke a few languages    including Yiddish     The borders of modern Israel were never established because islamo nazi pigs would not recognize the existence of Israel     In fact  CITIZENSHIPS change too      According to the nuremburg laws jews essentially had no citizen ship      In the islamo nazi pig country  MALDIVES    all people who refuse to lick the dung of the  rapist  pig or arabia ---LOST THEIR CITIZENSHIP     Be patient     soon the borders will be established
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sure your great grand parents were born prior to 1949, right?
> 
> "The Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, commonly referred to as the Fourth Geneva Convention and abbreviated as GCIV, is one of the four treaties of the Geneva Conventions.
> 
> "It was adopted in August 1949, and defines humanitarian protections for civilians in a war zone, and outlaws the practice of total war. There are currently 194 countries party to the 1949 Geneva Conventions, including this fourth treaty but also including the other three."
> 
> Fourth Geneva Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Israel has no legal right to annex Area C, regardless of your constant stream of deflections about the MALDIVES and other assorted Muslim crimes.
Click to expand...


Israel has not annexed Area C so why are you whining about this, Princess?


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Citizens of Yemen are routinely assassinated by "very decent" officials in the US Government.
> Why aren't you complaining about that filth?
> Would that prove up$etting to your ha$bara handler$?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The USA   assassinated one person in Yemen who was himself a murderer and inspired american jihadist pigs to murder in the USA to your delight        Some assassinations are celebrated by decent people       Your statement   "Citizens of Yemen are routinely assassinated by "very decent" officials in the US Government."    is an ISLAMONAZI SHIT CLAW LIE              and galvanized by the ideology of the rapist murdering child molesting pig of arabia who himself died of the  POISON fed him by a brave jewish heroine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "RELATIVES OF *three American citizens* who were killed last autumn by US drone attacks in Yemen have filed a lawsuit against Central Intelligence Agency and military officials, in the first constitutional challenge to the Obama administrations widespread use of such weapons to assassinate presumed enemies."
> 
> Families of US victims sue over drone strike on Yemen - The Irish Times - Fri, Jul 20, 2012
> 
> Muslims from Pakistan to Yemen are routinely murdered by US drones.
> Soon the New Evil Empire will no longer be able to borrow enough money to continue killing innocent Muslims on the opposite side of the planet.
> Will you then apologize for the routine murders of innocent Catholics in Mexico?
Click to expand...


It seems clear you are not one of us but in the event that you are, why not consider moving to a place where you can be less disgusted? I mean, who would want to live with the hate that boils your head every day?


----------



## Sundowner47

dnsmith35 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Citizens of Yemen are routinely assassinated by "very decent" officials in the US Government.
> Why aren't you complaining about that filth?
> Would that prove up$etting to your ha$bara handler$?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The USA   assassinated one person in Yemen who was himself a murderer and inspired american jihadist pigs to murder in the USA to your delight        Some assassinations are celebrated by decent people       Your statement   "Citizens of Yemen are routinely assassinated by "very decent" officials in the US Government."    is an ISLAMONAZI SHIT CLAW LIE              and galvanized by the ideology of the rapist murdering child molesting pig of arabia who himself died of the  POISON fed him by a brave jewish heroine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suspect he took something Noam Chomsky said and took it to heart. Noam Chomsky is an expert on linguistics and a dumbass about the middle east and politics. It takes a certain kind of ignorance to believe anything he says.
Click to expand...



holy shit!!!!!!!!!  spoken like a puerile imbecile...Chomsky lived in Israel you impossible simpleton...he has kept abreast of the political and military situation for 60 years you unfathomable mental defective...


----------



## SAYIT

Sundowner47 said:


> dnsmith35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The USA   assassinated one person in Yemen who was himself a murderer and inspired american jihadist pigs to murder in the USA to your delight        Some assassinations are celebrated by decent people       Your statement   "Citizens of Yemen are routinely assassinated by "very decent" officials in the US Government."    is an ISLAMONAZI SHIT CLAW LIE              and galvanized by the ideology of the rapist murdering child molesting pig of arabia who himself died of the  POISON fed him by a brave jewish heroine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect he took something Noam Chomsky said and took it to heart. Noam Chomsky is an expert on linguistics and a dumbass about the middle east and politics. It takes a certain kind of ignorance to believe anything he says.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> holy shit!!!!!!!!!  spoken like a puerile imbecile...Chomsky lived in Israel you impossible simpleton...he has kept abreast of the political and military situation for 60 years you unfathomable mental defective...
Click to expand...


Congrats, asshole! You have slipped from "sucking off goats" to "off the scale" which, I believe, is an even lower rating but doesn't sound as disgusting.
Personally, I believe you are both "off the scale" and "sucking off goats."


----------



## georgephillip

dnsmith35 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one can top Bibi.
> 
> 
> 
> Chomsky and Bibi agree on Israel's role in US foreign policy:
> 
> "QUESTION: What role does Israel play in the US view?
> 
> CHOMSKY: Exactly the role the US National Security Council assigned it in 1958, namely, to be a bulwark against Arab nationalism. Israel was chosen because it is a dependable base for Western dominance in this region. In the 60s this became reality.
> 
> "The Americans feared the effects of Egyptian nationalism on Saudi Arabia's stability, with a consequent threat to American oil interests. The war of June 1967 dealt a severe blow to this struggle for independence. The event proved pivotal for Israeli-American relations. Israel became a virtual appendage of the US, in other words, another American 'ally,' to which the US could turn whenever it wanted a task accomplished."
> 
> Israel in Global Context, Noam Chomsky interviewed by Ludwig Watzal
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, Israel should have been formed 20 odd years earlier as the British Mandate called for a Jewish State and a "Palistinian" state. Trans Jordan was created to be the parent nation of the Palestinian State.
Click to expand...

Actually, all citizens of voting age in 1948 Mandate Palestine should have decided their fates at the ballot box. Instead, one-third of the citizens inflicted a Jewish State by force of arms upon the majority.
This was done largely to facilitate western control of Arab oil resources and stimulate arms sales, primarily in the US and UK.


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one can top Bibi.
> 
> 
> 
> Chomsky and Bibi agree on Israel's role in US foreign policy:
> 
> "QUESTION: What role does Israel play in the US view?
> 
> CHOMSKY: Exactly the role the US National Security Council assigned it in 1958, namely, to be a bulwark against Arab nationalism. Israel was chosen because it is a dependable base for Western dominance in this region. In the 60s this became reality.
> 
> "The Americans feared the effects of Egyptian nationalism on Saudi Arabia's stability, with a consequent threat to American oil interests. The war of June 1967 dealt a severe blow to this struggle for independence. The event proved pivotal for Israeli-American relations. Israel became a virtual appendage of the US, in other words, another American 'ally,' to which the US could turn whenever it wanted a task accomplished."
> 
> Israel in Global Context, Noam Chomsky interviewed by Ludwig Watzal
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Chumpsky makes a vald point (even a blind squirel stumbles across the occasional berry) but as is his penchant, adds an anti-American twist.
> In this case, "America's oil interests" is made to sound like "evil America" when the fact is the world depends on a steady stream of affordable oil. Protecting the Mideast conduit falls on the US because nobody else on the planet can do it and if we can use Israel in any way, we should do so.
Click to expand...

Do you know enough History to realize that when Chomsky was a young man Zionism meant *opposition* to a Jewish state? That it wasn't until 1942 that the Zionist movement came out officially in favor of a Jewish state?

"America's oil interests" refers to US control over who receives Middle East oil and how much they are entitled to. This has been true since the 1950s when the US supplied all its own domestic oil needs.

Those like Chomsky realized a Jewish state would be used as a cop on the beat to enforce "America's oil interests", and such a state would be discriminatory and racist.


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Non-citizen residents of all countries live under the their hosts laws and pay taxes to that country yet do not vote. The question is your obsession with the fact that this is also Israel's policy.
> Is there a reason (as if we don't know) why you are fixated on Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> *Do we agree that Area C is NOT part of the country called Israel?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You failed to answer my question before positing another of your own, Princess. That's so typical of you but I will, nonetheless, answer yours: Not yet.
> So why are you fixated on Israel?
Click to expand...

When you say "(n)on-citizen residents of all* countries"*... you are implying Area C exists within a country called Israel. It doesn't. Area C is illegally occupied territory, and the Arab civilians living there are not the non-citizen residents; that would be the Jews. Again.

Why are you obsessed with placing Jewish interests over US interests?


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Do we agree that Area C is NOT part of the country called Israel?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You failed to answer my question before positing another of your own, Princess. That's so typical of you but I will, nonetheless, answer yours: Not yet.
> So why are you fixated on Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When you say "(n)on-citizen residents of all* countries"*... you are implying Area C exists within a country called Israel. It doesn't. Area C is illegally occupied territory, and the Arab civilians living there are not the non-citizen residents; that would be the Jews. Again.
> 
> Why are you obsessed with placing Jewish interests over US interests?
Click to expand...


This discussion has little to do with American interests (and I'll take your response to be an admission that you are obessed with Israel to the exclusion of virtually all other things) but you still haven't answered my question:
_Why_ are you obessed with Israel?
BTW, Area C is disputed territory which is currently part of no country (because there is no "Palestine"), and is inhabited by both Israelis (who can vote in Israeli elections) and non-Israelis (who cannot vote in Israeli elections).
You are among the most dense posters I have ever encountered. 
Keep up the good work.


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> dnsmith35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chomsky and Bibi agree on Israel's role in US foreign policy:
> 
> "QUESTION: What role does Israel play in the US view?
> 
> CHOMSKY: Exactly the role the US National Security Council assigned it in 1958, namely, to be a bulwark against Arab nationalism. Israel was chosen because it is a dependable base for Western dominance in this region. In the 60s this became reality.
> 
> "The Americans feared the effects of Egyptian nationalism on Saudi Arabia's stability, with a consequent threat to American oil interests. The war of June 1967 dealt a severe blow to this struggle for independence. The event proved pivotal for Israeli-American relations. Israel became a virtual appendage of the US, in other words, another American 'ally,' to which the US could turn whenever it wanted a task accomplished."
> 
> Israel in Global Context, Noam Chomsky interviewed by Ludwig Watzal
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, Israel should have been formed 20 odd years earlier as the British Mandate called for a Jewish State and a "Palistinian" state. Trans Jordan was created to be the parent nation of the Palestinian State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, all citizens of voting age in 1948 Mandate Palestine should have decided their fates at the ballot box. Instead, one-third of the citizens inflicted a Jewish State by force of arms upon the majority.
> This was done largely to facilitate western control of Arab oil resources and stimulate arms sales, primarily in the US and UK.
Click to expand...


You seem to be admitting that in 1948 we acted in what we saw to be our best interests while simultaneously complaining that we did so.


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chomsky and Bibi agree on Israel's role in US foreign policy:
> 
> "QUESTION: What role does Israel play in the US view?
> 
> CHOMSKY: Exactly the role the US National Security Council assigned it in 1958, namely, to be a bulwark against Arab nationalism. Israel was chosen because it is a dependable base for Western dominance in this region. In the 60s this became reality.
> 
> "The Americans feared the effects of Egyptian nationalism on Saudi Arabia's stability, with a consequent threat to American oil interests. The war of June 1967 dealt a severe blow to this struggle for independence. The event proved pivotal for Israeli-American relations. Israel became a virtual appendage of the US, in other words, another American 'ally,' to which the US could turn whenever it wanted a task accomplished."
> 
> Israel in Global Context, Noam Chomsky interviewed by Ludwig Watzal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chumpsky makes a vald point (even a blind squirel stumbles across the occasional berry) but as is his penchant, adds an anti-American twist.
> In this case, "America's oil interests" is made to sound like "evil America" when the fact is the world depends on a steady stream of affordable oil. Protecting the Mideast conduit falls on the US because nobody else on the planet can do it and if we can use Israel in any way, we should do so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you know enough History to realize that when Chomsky was a young man Zionism meant *opposition* to a Jewish state? That it wasn't until 1942 that the Zionist movement came out officially in favor of a Jewish state?
> 
> "America's oil interests" refers to US control over who receives Middle East oil and how much they are entitled to. This has been true since the 1950s when the US supplied all its own domestic oil needs.
> 
> Those like Chomsky realized a Jewish state would be used as a cop on the beat to enforce "America's oil interests", and such a state would be discriminatory and racist.
Click to expand...


I need to know where you get the crack you've been smokin'.
BTW, you do realize that those hapless "Palestinians didn't become "Palestinians" until 1964 and when registering those would-be "Palestinians" as refugees in 1948 the UN only required proof of 2 years of residency, right Princess?

History of Zionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

'Zionism as an organized movement is generally considered to have been fathered by Theodor Herzl in 1897; however the history of Zionism began earlier and related to Judaism and Jewish history. The Hovevei Zion, or the Lovers of Zion, were responsible for the creation of 20 new Jewish settlements in Palestine between 1870 and 1897.[1]

Before the Holocaust the movement's central aims were the creation of a Jewish National Home and cultural centre in Palestine by facilitating Jewish migration. After the Holocaust, the movement focussed on creation of a "Jewish state" (usually defined as a secular state with a Jewish majority), attaining its goal in 1948 with the creation of Israel.'


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Do we agree that Area C is NOT part of the country called Israel?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You failed to answer my question before positing another of your own, Princess. That's so typical of you but I will, nonetheless, answer yours: Not yet.
> So why are you fixated on Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When you say "(n)on-citizen residents of all* countries"*... you are implying Area C exists within a country called Israel. It doesn't. Area C is illegally occupied territory, and the Arab civilians living there are not the non-citizen residents; that would be the Jews. Again.
> 
> Why are you obsessed with placing Jewish interests over US interests?
Click to expand...


In many areas the two are one and the same.
Why are you so antipatetic towards America's self interest:
"This was done largely to facilitate western control of Arab oil resources and stimulate arms sales, primarily in the US and UK."


----------



## irosie91

I do not understand why anyone states that  the west bank and Gaza are "ILLEGALLY occupied"     what is illegal about it?       Egypt started a war -----jordan joined in------Israel essentially WON that war but the parties never actually surrendered and the  leaders that the people of Gaza and the west bank recognize as leaders have declared war on Israel      and continue to attack   Israel-----so what is ILLEGAL about Israel acting to try to control the aggression of the entity which calles itself the  "palestinians"   ???     A state of war does EXIST between the people who call themselves  "palestinians"  and Israel by the choice of the  "palestinians"     If mexico were to decide to declare war on the USA    sent terrorists across the border to slit the throats of children and launched missiles into texas -----the US would certainly enter that country and exert pressures on it


----------



## Saigon

irosie91 said:


> I do not understand why anyone states that  the west bank and Gaza are "ILLEGALLY occupied"     what is illegal about it?



Land is illegally occupied when internaional governments do not recognise annexation if, indeed, annexation has taken place. 

In this case, Jews have no legitimate claims to the regions involved, and have no history of living in the majority of towns involving during the past thousand years, whereas Palestinians do. Jews have never lived in any numbers in Nablus, Ramalah, Gaza or Quneitra. 

Also, the land falls outside areas assigned to Israel under the partition plan of 1948, the so-called Green Line borders, and the UN resolutions 242 and 338.


----------



## Billo_Really

irosie91 said:


> I do not understand why anyone states that  the west bank and Gaza are "ILLEGALLY occupied"...


Because you don't want to.  You have no desire to.  I can see your statement is entirely rhetorical, thus requiring no answer. It's obvious you don't care about the truth, because you don't spend any time and effort trying to find it.

All you care about is pontificating your racist bullshit to as many people as you possibly can.  The only thing you have to offer this world is "hate".  And you wanna inject hate into as many peoples lives as you possibly can.


----------



## irosie91

loinboy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not understand why anyone states that  the west bank and Gaza are "ILLEGALLY occupied"...
> 
> 
> 
> Because you don't want to.  You have no desire to.  I can see your statement is entirely rhetorical, thus requiring no answer. It's obvious you don't care about the truth, because you don't spend any time and effort trying to find it.
> 
> All you care about is pontificating your racist bullshit to as many people as you possibly can.  The only thing you have to offer this world is "hate".  And you wanna inject hate into as many peoples lives as you possibly can.
Click to expand...


you said nothing----but you did indicate that you support  THE RIGHT OF THE "palestinian" entity to launch poison nail bombs into Israel and to nudge sluts with bombs on their whorish asses into baby nurseries.    I am not surprised


----------



## Billo_Really

irosie91 said:


> you said nothing----but you did indicate...


Jesus Christ, you don't even care about making sense!

If I said "nothing", how could I have possibly "indicated" something?  

You cannot get something from nothing.  Idiot!



irosie91 said:


> ... that you support  THE RIGHT OF THE "palestinian" entity to launch poison nail bombs into Israel and to nudge sluts with bombs on their whorish asses into baby nurseries.    I am not surprised


I support the Palestinian's right to self-determination and I've always been against the rocket attacks.  

So go fuck yourself!


----------



## ima

loinboy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> you said nothing----but you did indicate...
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus Christ, you don't even care about making sense!
> 
> If I said "nothing", how could I have possibly "indicated" something?
> 
> You cannot get something from nothing.  Idiot!
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... that you support  THE RIGHT OF THE "palestinian" entity to launch poison nail bombs into Israel and to nudge sluts with bombs on their whorish asses into baby nurseries.    I am not surprised
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I support the Palestinian's right to self-determination and I've always been against the rocket attacks.
> 
> So go fuck yourself!
Click to expand...


So there's something wrong with shooting rockets at your enemy during war time?


----------



## irosie91

ima said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> you said nothing----but you did indicate...
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus Christ, you don't even care about making sense!
> 
> If I said "nothing", how could I have possibly "indicated" something?
> 
> You cannot get something from nothing.  Idiot!
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... that you support  THE RIGHT OF THE "palestinian" entity to launch poison nail bombs into Israel and to nudge sluts with bombs on their whorish asses into baby nurseries.    I am not surprised
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I support the Palestinian's right to self-determination and I've always been against the rocket attacks.
> 
> So go fuck yourself!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So there's something wrong with shooting rockets at your enemy during war time?
Click to expand...



In military actions     the TARGETS  must be military targets      RETURN FIRE is always legal     but simply shooting poison nail bombs----which are bombs that function almost exclusively as a means of killing children-----into school yards,   is NOT LEGAL   
You are not only typically vulgar       (ie for an islamo nazi)     you also INVENT rules.     thus you are a typical islamo nazi

After the forces of   Nus-kharah-allah  made a foray into   Israel and murdered Israeli soldiers-----they THEN began to  launch thousands of poison nail bombs upon the RESIDENTIAL    city   HAIFA       Israel had not attacked them from Haifa -----but they were highly motivated---to your delight---to blow the brains out of the children of haifa with poison nail bombs.      Israel RETURNED FIRE         in the legal manner----which is using the same TRAJECTORY  (do you know that word?)    for a return missile       The RETURN FIRE    actually killed children which proves that  Hezbollah KNOWINGLY AND WITH INTENT   shot off missiles in the vicinity of civilian populations knowing that there would be RETURN FIRE----  in order to create a baby body count  TO YOUR DELIGHT.    Your hero     Nus kharah allah is a murderer-----both of israelis and Lebanese children


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> You failed to answer my question before positing another of your own, Princess. That's so typical of you but I will, nonetheless, answer yours: Not yet.
> So why are you fixated on Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> When you say "(n)on-citizen residents of all* countries"*... you are implying Area C exists within a country called Israel. It doesn't. Area C is illegally occupied territory, and the Arab civilians living there are not the non-citizen residents; that would be the Jews. Again.
> 
> Why are you obsessed with placing Jewish interests over US interests?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This discussion has little to do with American interests (and I'll take your response to be an admission that you are obessed with Israel to the exclusion of virtually all other things) but you still haven't answered my question:
> _Why_ are you obessed with Israel?
> BTW, Area C is disputed territory which is currently part of no country (because there is no "Palestine"), and is inhabited by both Israelis (who can vote in Israeli elections) and non-Israelis (who cannot vote in Israeli elections).
> You are among the most dense posters I have ever encountered.
> Keep up the good work.
Click to expand...

If you find it "obsessive" when someone posts regularly about Israel on a thread entitled "Israel's ' Right to Exist?'", learn to use a dictionary.

There is nothing "disputed" about Area C.
It is occupied *territory*.
It doesn't matter if a state called Palestine exists, or not.
A Jewish State exists, and it occupies territory that it illegally conquered in 1967.

"The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."

Those civilian and military Israelis living in Area C who are voting in Israeli elections represent an Occupying Power that would not be governing if all citizens of voting age living in Area C had equal political sovereignty.

It's a difficult concept for indoctrinated slaves like you to struggle with.

Fourth Geneva Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus Christ, you don't even care about making sense!
> 
> If I said "nothing", how could I have possibly "indicated" something?
> 
> You cannot get something from nothing.  Idiot!
> 
> I support the Palestinian's right to self-determination and I've always been against the rocket attacks.
> 
> So go fuck yourself!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So there's something wrong with shooting rockets at your enemy during war time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In military actions     the TARGETS  must be military targets      RETURN FIRE is always legal     but simply shooting poison nail bombs----which are bombs that function almost exclusively as a means of killing children-----into school yards,   is NOT LEGAL
> You are not only typically vulgar       (ie for an islamo nazi)     you also INVENT rules.     thus you are a typical islamo nazi
> 
> After the forces of   Nus-kharah-allah  made a foray into   Israel and murdered Israeli soldiers-----they THEN began to  launch thousands of poison nail bombs upon the RESIDENTIAL    city   HAIFA       Israel had not attacked them from Haifa -----but they were highly motivated---to your delight---to blow the brains out of the children of haifa with poison nail bombs.      Israel RETURNED FIRE         in the legal manner----which is using the same TRAJECTORY  (do you know that word?)    for a return missile       The RETURN FIRE    actually killed children which proves that  Hezbollah KNOWINGLY AND WITH INTENT   shot off missiles in the vicinity of civilian populations knowing that there would be RETURN FIRE----  in order to create a baby body count  TO YOUR DELIGHT.    Your hero     Nus kharah allah is a murderer-----both of israelis and Lebanese children
Click to expand...




> Israel RETURNED FIRE in the legal manner----which is using the same TRAJECTORY (do you know that word?) for a return missile...



That's what the Palestinians say. They fire rockets in the direction that the planes and tanks come from. So, as you say, the Palestinians return fire in a legal manner.


----------



## SAYIT

Saigon said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not understand why anyone states that  the west bank and Gaza are "ILLEGALLY occupied"     what is illegal about it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Land is illegally occupied when internaional governments do not recognise annexation if, indeed, annexation has taken place.
> 
> In this case, Jews have no legitimate claims to the regions involved, and have no history of living in the majority of towns involving during the past thousand years, whereas Palestinians do. Jews have never lived in any numbers in Nablus, Ramalah, Gaza or Quneitra.
> 
> Also, the land falls outside areas assigned to Israel under the partition plan of 1948, the so-called Green Line borders, and the UN resolutions 242 and 338.
Click to expand...


Your slip is showing, Sai. 
Jews may indeed have legitimate claims to the regions involved ... Israel _may_ not. That's why they are disputed and have not yet been annexed by another state although Jordan tried.


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> So there's something wrong with shooting rockets at your enemy during war time?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In military actions     the TARGETS  must be military targets      RETURN FIRE is always legal     but simply shooting poison nail bombs----which are bombs that function almost exclusively as a means of killing children-----into school yards,   is NOT LEGAL
> You are not only typically vulgar       (ie for an islamo nazi)     you also INVENT rules.     thus you are a typical islamo nazi
> 
> After the forces of   Nus-kharah-allah  made a foray into   Israel and murdered Israeli soldiers-----they THEN began to  launch thousands of poison nail bombs upon the RESIDENTIAL    city   HAIFA       Israel had not attacked them from Haifa -----but they were highly motivated---to your delight---to blow the brains out of the children of haifa with poison nail bombs.      Israel RETURNED FIRE         in the legal manner----which is using the same TRAJECTORY  (do you know that word?)    for a return missile       The RETURN FIRE    actually killed children which proves that  Hezbollah KNOWINGLY AND WITH INTENT   shot off missiles in the vicinity of civilian populations knowing that there would be RETURN FIRE----  in order to create a baby body count  TO YOUR DELIGHT.    Your hero     Nus kharah allah is a murderer-----both of israelis and Lebanese children
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel RETURNED FIRE in the legal manner----which is using the same TRAJECTORY (do you know that word?) for a return missile...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's what the Palestinians say. They fire rockets in the direction that the planes and tanks come from. So, as you say, the Palestinians return fire in a legal manner.
Click to expand...



shooting in the direction from which a PLANE  flew in is NOT A LEGAL TARGET-----shooting along the trajectory of an INCOMING MISSILE     is legal       When a MUJHADEEN IS holding a baby and shooting-----he MAY shoot back if an israeli soldier shoots at him even if the Israel soldier is holding a baby.     The mujahadeen in emulation of al NABI's basic set of ethics      do not SHOOT along incoming trajectories at all------they shoot most preferably during times of no active conflict because that is when their targets----the children are out of the house and playing in the fields

tying a bomb to a slut and nudging her into a pizza parlor is never legal     The most celebrated  Mujahad act----that of sneaking into a house during a lull in the conflict ----in order to slit the thoat of an infant------while clearly exciting to you------and yours.    Is not legal


----------



## SAYIT

loinboy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not understand why anyone states that  the west bank and Gaza are "ILLEGALLY occupied"...
> 
> 
> 
> Because you don't want to.  You have no desire to.  I can see your statement is entirely rhetorical, thus requiring no answer. It's obvious you don't care about the truth, because you don't spend any time and effort trying to find it.
> 
> All you care about is pontificating your racist bullshit to as many people as you possibly can.  The only thing you have to offer this world is "hate".  And you wanna inject hate into as many peoples lives as you possibly can.
Click to expand...


You are projecting again, Boy.
It is clear you have no connection to and precious little understanding of the conflict and the issues involved but come here just to vent your hateful spleen.
I'm surprised your head doesn't explode.


----------



## Saigon

SAYIT said:


> Jews may indeed have legitimate claims to the regions involved ... Israel _may_ not. That's why they are disputed and have not yet been annexed by another state although Jordan tried.



No, not really - Jews have NEVER lived in towns such as those listed in any significant numbers. Never. 

In Jericho and Jersualem there is a history of Jewish occupation dating back 2,500 years, but Jews never moved north and easy from those communities. 

Census data lists the land north of Jericho as being almost entirely Muslim. In Nalbus in 1850, census data records 14 Jewish families and 1,356 Muslim families. 

It is upon this kind of information that we consider historical claims to land, no?

Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Billo_Really

ima said:


> So there's something wrong with shooting rockets at your enemy during war time?


Indiscriminant weapons, are a war crime.

If the Pals would be able to put guidance systems on them and only target the IDF, they'd be perfectly legal.

As it stands now, their guidance system consists of firing the rocket out of the trunk of their car, then going home and turning on CNN to see where it landed.


----------



## Saigon

SAYIT said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not understand why anyone states that  the west bank and Gaza are "ILLEGALLY occupied"...
> 
> 
> 
> Because you don't want to.  You have no desire to.  I can see your statement is entirely rhetorical, thus requiring no answer. It's obvious you don't care about the truth, because you don't spend any time and effort trying to find it.
> 
> All you care about is pontificating your racist bullshit to as many people as you possibly can.  The only thing you have to offer this world is "hate".  And you wanna inject hate into as many peoples lives as you possibly can.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are projecting again, Boy.
> It is clear you have no connection to and precious little understanding of the conflict and the issues involved but come here just to vent your hateful spleen.
> I'm surprised your head doesn't explode.
Click to expand...


I think Loin is quite correct here - a very key point in extremist positions supporting Israel is the desire not to understand Palestinian history or legitimacy. 

We also see a lot of what I could call hate speech posted here against Muslims in general, and it is this urge to denigrate and dehumanize Palestinians and Muslims which preclude any possible understanding of the history. 

If people do not understand why Palestinians feel Nalbus is "theirs" after 2,500 years of living there, I suggest that they are not trying terribly hard to understand it.


----------



## SAYIT

Saigon said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not understand why anyone states that  the west bank and Gaza are "ILLEGALLY occupied"     what is illegal about it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Land is illegally occupied when internaional governments do not recognise annexation if, indeed, annexation has taken place.
> 
> It hasn't ... yet.
> 
> Also, the land falls outside areas assigned to Israel under the partition plan of 1948, the so-called Green Line borders, and the UN resolutions 242 and 338.
Click to expand...


Neither the armistice boundaries of 1948 nor 1967 are recognized borders.
What would have been the "Palestinian" State envisioned by the partition plan is, as per the Arabs, was deemed to be "null and void."
They voided themselves.


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you say "(n)on-citizen residents of all* countries"*... you are implying Area C exists within a country called Israel. It doesn't. Area C is illegally occupied territory, and the Arab civilians living there are not the non-citizen residents; that would be the Jews. Again.
> 
> Why are you obsessed with placing Jewish interests over US interests?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This discussion has little to do with American interests (and I'll take your response to be an admission that you are obessed with Israel to the exclusion of virtually all other things) but you still haven't answered my question:
> _Why_ are you obessed with Israel?
> BTW, Area C is disputed territory which is currently part of no country (because there is no "Palestine"), and is inhabited by both Israelis (who can vote in Israeli elections) and non-Israelis (who cannot vote in Israeli elections).
> You are among the most dense posters I have ever encountered.
> Keep up the good work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you find it "obsessive" when someone posts regularly about Israel on a thread entitled "Israel's ' Right to Exist?'", learn to use a dictionary.
Click to expand...


You religiously post anti-Israel propaganda from sites such as PressTV and PIC ("The Voice of Palestine") as though it was factual because your hate rules your world.
You are obsessed.


----------



## SAYIT

Saigon said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews may indeed have legitimate claims to the regions involved ... Israel _may_ not. That's why they are disputed and have not yet been annexed by another state although Jordan tried.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, not really - Jews have NEVER lived in towns such as those listed in any significant numbers. Never.
> 
> In Jericho and Jersualem there is a history of Jewish occupation dating back 2,500 years, but Jews never moved north and easy from those communities.
> 
> Census data lists the land north of Jericho as being almost entirely Muslim. In Nalbus in 1850, census data records 14 Jewish families and 1,356 Muslim families.
> 
> It is upon this kind of information that we consider historical claims to land, no?
> 
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


Welcome to the 21st century! 
I'm not interested in their ancient history and never have expressed historical rights to the land.
Jews who have moved to these areas _may_ have legit claims. Israel may not. 
That's all I'm saying. Funny you would switch from Israelis to "Jews."


----------



## Hossfly

loinboy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> you said nothing----but you did indicate...
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus Christ, you don't even care about making sense!
> 
> If I said "nothing", how could I have possibly "indicated" something?
> 
> You cannot get something from nothing.  Idiot!
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... that you support  THE RIGHT OF THE "palestinian" entity to launch poison nail bombs into Israel and to nudge sluts with bombs on their whorish asses into baby nurseries.    I am not surprised
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I support the Palestinian's right to self-determination and I've always been against the rocket attacks.
> 
> So go fuck yourself!
Click to expand...

Something from nothing? All you terrorist supporters are always trying to make sugar out of shit.


----------



## SAYIT

loinboy said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> So there's something wrong with shooting rockets at your enemy during war time?
> 
> 
> 
> Indiscriminant weapons, are a war crime.
> 
> If the Pals would be able to put guidance systems on them and only target the IDF, they'd be perfectly legal.
> 
> As it stands now, their guidance system consists of firing the rocket out of the trunk of their car, then going home and turning on CNN to see where it landed.
Click to expand...


For every rational thought you have in the matter you have 100 irrationals.
Many of your anti-Israel/anti-Jew comrades here blithely justify (and even encourage)those rockets ... as though they are doing those hapless "Palestinians" and their "cause" some good.
Dan Rather: A Precarious Peace


----------



## Saigon

SAYIT said:


> Funny you would switch from Israelis to "Jews."



There was no Israel in 1850, and that was the year I was talking about. 

As is often the case, the reason was quite logical. 

I get a bit bored with the ancient history discussion myself, especially when it goes back to the years BC, but I do think both Israeli and Palestinian claims to disputed land need to take at least 19th and 2oth century occupation into account.


----------



## SAYIT

Saigon said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny you would switch from Israelis to "Jews."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no Israel in 1850, and that was the year I was talking about.
> 
> As is often the case, the reason was quite logical.
> 
> I get a bit bored with the ancient history discussion myself, especially when it goes back to the years BC, but I do think both Israeli and Palestinian claims to disputed land need to take at least 19th and 2oth century occupation into account.
Click to expand...


The UN wasn't particularly interested in ancient claims, either. All they required of the wannabe "Palestinian" refugees was proof of residency between 1946 and 1948 (and I doubt anyone who applied was rejected).


----------



## ima

loinboy said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> So there's something wrong with shooting rockets at your enemy during war time?
> 
> 
> 
> Indiscriminant weapons, are a war crime.
> 
> If the Pals would be able to put guidance systems on them and only target the IDF, they'd be perfectly legal.
> 
> As it stands now, their guidance system consists of firing the rocket out of the trunk of their car, then going home and turning on CNN to see where it landed.
Click to expand...


You use what you have in war time. Like, the US killed tons of civies in every war, so do the Israelis, the Russians, the arabs... everyone. War is a crime. They put the Nazis on trial but did they put the Allied Forces on trial for carpet bombing cities or the 2 A bombs dropped on Japan. War crimes are never attributed to the victors, only the vanquished are evil doers.


----------



## irosie91

ima said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> So there's something wrong with shooting rockets at your enemy during war time?
> 
> 
> 
> Indiscriminant weapons, are a war crime.
> 
> If the Pals would be able to put guidance systems on them and only target the IDF, they'd be perfectly legal.
> 
> As it stands now, their guidance system consists of firing the rocket out of the trunk of their car, then going home and turning on CNN to see where it landed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You use what you have in war time. Like, the US killed tons of civies in every war, so do the Israelis, the Russians, the arabs... everyone. War is a crime. They put the Nazis on trial but did they put the Allied Forces on trial for carpet bombing cities or the 2 A bombs dropped on Japan. War crimes are never attributed to the victors, only the vanquished are evil doers.
Click to expand...



War is war-----but there are rules of engagement     I do not know what the military justification for some of the carpet bombing of world war II was but I think that the bombing of berlin was related to the fact that   Hitler there      If you wish to justify the use of bombs wholly devoted to knocking the brains out of children and fired indiscriminately into Israel because  'war is war'     then you are stuck justifying unprovoked carpet bombings of gaza        Gaza could be GONE in two days using conventoinal weapons based on what you justify since Gaza has declared war on Israel


----------



## irosie91

Saigon said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because you don't want to.  You have no desire to.  I can see your statement is entirely rhetorical, thus requiring no answer. It's obvious you don't care about the truth, because you don't spend any time and effort trying to find it.
> 
> All you care about is pontificating your racist bullshit to as many people as you possibly can.  The only thing you have to offer this world is "hate".  And you wanna inject hate into as many peoples lives as you possibly can.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are projecting again, Boy.
> It is clear you have no connection to and precious little understanding of the conflict and the issues involved but come here just to vent your hateful spleen.
> I'm surprised your head doesn't explode.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think Loin is quite correct here - a very key point in extremist positions supporting
> Israel is the desire not to understand Palestinian history or legitimacy.
> 
> We also see a lot of what I could call hate speech posted here against Muslims in general, and it is this urge to denigrate and dehumanize Palestinians and Muslims which preclude any possible understanding of the history.
> 
> If people do not understand why Palestinians feel Nalbus is "theirs" after 2,500 years of living there, I suggest that they are not trying terribly hard to understand it.
Click to expand...




There is not a shred of evidence that any of the arabs living in Nablus have a connection to that city for   "2500 years"      In fact 2500 years ago the city was not named  NABLUS and was not even  NEOPOLIS    which the romans who refurbished it and rebuilt it LATER NAMED IT       Those romans spoke LATIN not arabic      are there romans living in nablus now?       Nablus was stolen from the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE  when the dogs or arabia invaded      My guess is that the christians living there at the time   LEFT     The original name of nablus---before the romans took it was  SHECHEM     It is probably true that jews did not live in Shechem lately     There is nothing about shechem that is particularly historically attractive to jews other than the fact that it is a biblical city----it certainly is not an "ARAB CITY"     until quite recently after arabs invaded.  Even when jews were scattered around living in virtual hiding from the  "HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE"  people I doubt that they went to   shechem, neopolis, nablus    but I am not sure


----------



## irosie91

The only EXTANT people who have a connection to  NABLUS aka NEOPOLIS  aka SHECHEM   are the  SAMARITANS        sorry----they are not arabs      and they stopped living in nablus decades ago      sorry saigon


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are projecting again, Boy.
> It is clear you have no connection to and precious little understanding of the conflict and the issues involved but come here just to vent your hateful spleen.
> I'm surprised your head doesn't explode.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think Loin is quite correct here - a very key point in extremist positions supporting
> Israel is the desire not to understand Palestinian history or legitimacy.
> 
> We also see a lot of what I could call hate speech posted here against Muslims in general, and it is this urge to denigrate and dehumanize Palestinians and Muslims which preclude any possible understanding of the history.
> 
> If people do not understand why Palestinians feel Nalbus is "theirs" after 2,500 years of living there, I suggest that they are not trying terribly hard to understand it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is not a shred of evidence that any of the arabs living in Nablus have a connection to that city for   "2500 years"      In fact 2500 years ago the city was not named  NABLUS and was not even  NEOPOLIS    which the romans who refurbished it and rebuilt it LATER NAMED IT       Those romans spoke LATIN not arabic      are there romans living in nablus now?       Nablus was stolen from the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE  when the dogs or arabia invaded      My guess is that the christians living there at the time   LEFT     The original name of nablus---before the romans took it was  SHECHEM     It is probably true that jews did not live in Shechem lately     There is nothing about shechem that is particularly historically attractive to jews other than the fact that it is a biblical city----it certainly is not an "ARAB CITY"     until quite recently after arabs invaded.  Even when jews were scattered around living in virtual hiding from the  "HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE"  people I doubt that they went to   shechem, neopolis, nablus    but I am not sure
Click to expand...


I think the Jewish god must not be as strong as the other ones, He keeps dropping them right in the middle of hell. What's up with that? Do you think that their own god could cut them a break?


----------



## irosie91

ima said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Loin is quite correct here - a very key point in extremist positions supporting
> Israel is the desire not to understand Palestinian history or legitimacy.
> 
> We also see a lot of what I could call hate speech posted here against Muslims in general, and it is this urge to denigrate and dehumanize Palestinians and Muslims which preclude any possible understanding of the history.
> 
> If people do not understand why Palestinians feel Nalbus is "theirs" after 2,500 years of living there, I suggest that they are not trying terribly hard to understand it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is not a shred of evidence that any of the arabs living in Nablus have a connection to that city for   "2500 years"      In fact 2500 years ago the city was not named  NABLUS and was not even  NEOPOLIS    which the romans who refurbished it and rebuilt it LATER NAMED IT       Those romans spoke LATIN not arabic      are there romans living in nablus now?       Nablus was stolen from the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE  when the dogs or arabia invaded      My guess is that the christians living there at the time   LEFT     The original name of nablus---before the romans took it was  SHECHEM     It is probably true that jews did not live in Shechem lately     There is nothing about shechem that is particularly historically attractive to jews other than the fact that it is a biblical city----it certainly is not an "ARAB CITY"     until quite recently after arabs invaded.  Even when jews were scattered around living in virtual hiding from the  "HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE"  people I doubt that they went to   shechem, neopolis, nablus    but I am not sure
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think the Jewish god must not be as strong as the other ones, He keeps dropping them right in the middle of hell. What's up with that? Do you think that their own god could cut them a break?
Click to expand...




you touch on an issue that interests those of us who have brains       In islamic theology  --ALLAH is far more IN CONTROL OF ALL EVENTS  than is  G-d in jewish theology    In fact if you someday learn how to read ----you might read the first book of the bible.    It very clearly rejects the concept of  PREDESTINATION  and embraces the concept of  MAN's FREE WILL       blaming war on  G-d does not actually work as well in Judaism as it does in Islam 
It is true that some jews tend to a more fatalistic approach----but to me they are not taking the first five books   to wit  THE TORAH at its word      The books CLEARLY state that MAN DECIDES        a nice poetic example of the  MAN DECIDES  idea is the fact that  the "RIGHT OF THE FIRST BORN"    a kind of religious custom thruout the world is so frequently discarded by the leaders    Abraham discards it,   Isaac (with the interference of his wife)  discards it    and  Jacob (aka Israel)  --discards it    King Saul is not a first born and Neither is David and Neither is Solomon       For those days doing away with the  FATED right of the first born was very innovative-----even the British royalty cannot get away from it-------Elizabeth is afraid to die-------because of it         in any case doing it back then was a rejection of FATE and PRE-DESTINATION        As to a "weak"  G-d----it seems as if he VOLUNTARILY   gave up the right to impose destiny and gave it up to Man--(and woman, of course)      can't blame HIM  that the romans were -----uhm---born on the wrong side of the mattress


----------



## Saigon

irosie91 said:


> The only EXTANT people who have a connection to  NABLUS aka NEOPOLIS  aka SHECHEM   are the  SAMARITANS        sorry----they are not arabs      and they stopped living in nablus decades ago      sorry saigon



Census information, 1850.

Nablus: 
Jewish familes 14
Muslim 1,356

Nablus Countryside:
Jewish: 0 
Muslim: 13,022

Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


And yes, those people are very definitely Arabs.


----------



## Hossfly

saigon said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the only extant people who have a connection to  nablus aka neopolis  aka shechem   are the  samaritans        sorry----they are not arabs      and they stopped living in nablus decades ago      sorry saigon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> census information, 1850.
> 
> Nablus:
> Jewish familes 14
> muslim 1,356
> 
> nablus countryside:
> Jewish: 0
> muslim: 13,022
> 
> demographics of palestine - wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> and yes, those people are very definitely arabs.
Click to expand...

bfd


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is not a shred of evidence that any of the arabs living in Nablus have a connection to that city for   "2500 years"      In fact 2500 years ago the city was not named  NABLUS and was not even  NEOPOLIS    which the romans who refurbished it and rebuilt it LATER NAMED IT       Those romans spoke LATIN not arabic      are there romans living in nablus now?       Nablus was stolen from the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE  when the dogs or arabia invaded      My guess is that the christians living there at the time   LEFT     The original name of nablus---before the romans took it was  SHECHEM     It is probably true that jews did not live in Shechem lately     There is nothing about shechem that is particularly historically attractive to jews other than the fact that it is a biblical city----it certainly is not an "ARAB CITY"     until quite recently after arabs invaded.  Even when jews were scattered around living in virtual hiding from the  "HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE"  people I doubt that they went to   shechem, neopolis, nablus    but I am not sure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the Jewish god must not be as strong as the other ones, He keeps dropping them right in the middle of hell. What's up with that? Do you think that their own god could cut them a break?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you touch on an issue that interests those of us who have brains       In islamic theology  --ALLAH is far more IN CONTROL OF ALL EVENTS  than is  G-d in jewish theology    In fact if you someday learn how to read ----you might read the first book of the bible.    It very clearly rejects the concept of  PREDESTINATION  and embraces the concept of  MAN's FREE WILL       blaming war on  G-d does not actually work as well in Judaism as it does in Islam
> It is true that some jews tend to a more fatalistic approach----but to me they are not taking the first five books   to wit  THE TORAH at its word      The books CLEARLY state that MAN DECIDES        a nice poetic example of the  MAN DECIDES  idea is the fact that  the "RIGHT OF THE FIRST BORN"    a kind of religious custom thruout the world is so frequently discarded by the leaders    Abraham discards it,   Isaac (with the interference of his wife)  discards it    and  Jacob (aka Israel)  --discards it    King Saul is not a first born and Neither is David and Neither is Solomon       For those days doing away with the  FATED right of the first born was very innovative-----even the British royalty cannot get away from it-------Elizabeth is afraid to die-------because of it         in any case doing it back then was a rejection of FATE and PRE-DESTINATION        As to a "weak"  G-d----it seems as if he VOLUNTARILY   gave up the right to impose destiny and gave it up to Man--(and woman, of course)      can't blame HIM  that the romans were -----uhm---born on the wrong side of the mattress
Click to expand...


But if your own god hates you and keep putting you in situation where you could get wiped out, why should anyone else like you folks?


----------



## irosie91

ima said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the Jewish god must not be as strong as the other ones, He keeps dropping them right in the middle of hell. What's up with that? Do you think that their own god could cut them a break?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you touch on an issue that interests those of us who have brains       In islamic theology  --ALLAH is far more IN CONTROL OF ALL EVENTS  than is  G-d in jewish theology    In fact if you someday learn how to read ----you might read the first book of the bible.    It very clearly rejects the concept of  PREDESTINATION  and embraces the concept of  MAN's FREE WILL       blaming war on  G-d does not actually work as well in Judaism as it does in Islam
> It is true that some jews tend to a more fatalistic approach----but to me they are not taking the first five books   to wit  THE TORAH at its word      The books CLEARLY state that MAN DECIDES
> a nice poetic example of the  MAN DECIDES  idea is the fact that  the "RIGHT OF THE FIRST BORN"    a kind of religious custom thruout the world is so frequently discarded by the leaders    Abraham discards it,   Isaac (with the interference of his wife)  discards it    and  Jacob (aka Israel)  --discards it    King Saul is not a first born and Neither is David and Neither is Solomon       For those days doing away with the  FATED right of the first born was very innovative-----even the British royalty cannot get away from it-------Elizabeth is afraid to die-------because of it         in any case doing it back then was a rejection of FATE and PRE-DESTINATION        As to a "weak"  G-d----it seems as if he VOLUNTARILY   gave up the right to impose destiny and gave it up to Man--(and woman, of course)      can't blame HIM  that the romans were -----uhm---born on the wrong side of the mattress
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> But if your own god hates you and keep putting you in situation where you could get wiped out, why should anyone else like you folks?
Click to expand...


  The prognosis for your recovery from the KLUVER BUCY  status is hopeless
You will be spending the rest of your live snarling and flinging bits of
feces at the bars of your cage


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dnsmith35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, Israel should have been formed 20 odd years earlier as the British Mandate called for a Jewish State and a "Palistinian" state. Trans Jordan was created to be the parent nation of the Palestinian State.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, all citizens of voting age in 1948 Mandate Palestine should have decided their fates at the ballot box. Instead, one-third of the citizens inflicted a Jewish State by force of arms upon the majority.
> This was done largely to facilitate western control of Arab oil resources and stimulate arms sales, primarily in the US and UK.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You seem to be admitting that in 1948 we acted in what we saw to be our best interests while simultaneously complaining that we did so.
Click to expand...

*Define "our best interests" if you can.*

Specifically, how was it in the "best interests" of 90% of Americans in the 1950s to control the allocation of Arab oil to much of the rest of the world, i.e., what George Kenan and other US planners referred to as the Grand Area?

*"From 1939 to 1945, extensive studies* were conducted by the Council on Foreign Relations and the State Department. One group was called the War-Peace Studies Group, which met for six years and produced extensive geopolitical analyses and plans. The Council on Foreign Relations is essentially the business input to foreign policy plainning. These groups also involved every top planner in the State Department, with the exception of the Secretary of State.

"The conception that they developed is what they called '*Grand Area*' planning. 

"The Grand Area was a region that was to be subordinated to the needs of the American economy. As one planner put it, it was to be the region that is '*strategically necessary for world control*.' 

"The geopolitical analysis held that the Grand Area had to include at least the Western Hemisphere, the Far East, and the former British Empire, which we were then in the process of dismantling and taking over ourselves. 

"This is what is called 'anti-imperialism' in American scholariship. The Grand Area was also to include western and southern Europe and *the oil-producing regions of the Middle East*; in fact, it was to include everything, if that were possible. 

"Detailed plans were laid for particular regions of the Grand Area and also for international institutions that were to organize and police it, essentially in the interests of this subordination to U.S. domestic needs."

American Foreign Policy, by Noam Chomsky (Talk delivered at Harvard University)


----------



## irosie91

If the partition of Sudan had been put to a vote as  georgie suggests ----then by now there would be another million rapes ----scores more children enslaved and at least another million southern sudanese dead in the mud to georgie's delight

the assassination of his hero OSAMA   should have been put to a vote in islamabad-----what right did we have to INFLICT  an assassination on pakistan?


----------



## Saigon

irosie91 said:


> If the partition of Sudan had been put to a vote



It was put to a vote. 

The people of South Sudan voted to become an independent country in 2011.


----------



## irosie91

Saigon said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the partition of Sudan had been put to a vote
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was put to a vote.
> 
> The people of South Sudan voted to become an independent country in 2011.
Click to expand...


right   and  KHARTOUM  did not vote     If the jews of the middle east had voted on the issue regarding  the establishment of Israel in  1948----the vote would have been IN FAVOR      EAST AND WEST pakistan were once ONE COUNTRY-----if the entire country had voted on partition-----in  1971-----Bangla desh would not exist

your sophistry regarding the issue of DISTRIBUTION of populations is somthing like  gerrymandering-------it is oldest trick in the cynical book of sociopathic manipulator imperialist pigs      In the USA    its most interesting history involves the issue of the struggle to maintain slavery


----------



## Saigon

irosie91 said:


> EAST AND WEST pakistan were once ONE COUNTRY-----if the entire country had voted on partition-----in  1971-----Bangla desh would not exist



Well, partition was actually in 1948. 

What I think you mean was that Bangladesh was formed from the ashes of the West & East Pakistan concept, which lasted from 1948 - 1971. I don't think there is much question that most Bangladeshis overwhelmingly favoured independence from West Pakistan, if only to be free of the 'Butcher of Bengal'. 

What this has to do with Israel or the Sudan I have no idea.


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the partition of Sudan had been put to a vote
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was put to a vote.
> 
> The people of South Sudan voted to become an independent country in 2011.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> right   and  KHARTOUM  did not vote     If the jews of the middle east had voted on the issue regarding  the establishment of Israel in  1948----the vote would have been IN FAVOR      EAST AND WEST pakistan were once ONE COUNTRY-----if the entire country had voted on partition-----in  1971-----Bangla desh would not exist
> 
> your sophistry regarding the issue of DISTRIBUTION of populations is somthing like  gerrymandering-------it is oldest trick in the cynical book of sociopathic manipulator imperialist pigs      In the USA    its most interesting history involves the issue of the struggle to maintain slavery
Click to expand...


Not to worry, global warming will take care of Bangladesh.

So every minority in the world has a right to take whatever land they want? Or does your fictitious god first have to give it to you?


----------



## irosie91

ima said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was put to a vote.
> 
> The people of South Sudan voted to become an independent country in 2011.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> right   and  KHARTOUM  did not vote     If the jews of the middle east had voted on the issue regarding  the establishment of Israel in  1948----the vote would have been IN FAVOR      EAST AND WEST pakistan were once ONE COUNTRY-----if the entire country had voted on partition-----in  1971-----Bangla desh would not exist
> 
> your sophistry regarding the issue of DISTRIBUTION of populations is somthing like  gerrymandering-------it is oldest trick in the cynical book of sociopathic manipulator imperialist pigs      In the USA    its most interesting history involves the issue of the struggle to maintain slavery
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not to worry, global warming will take care of Bangladesh.
> 
> So every minority in the world has a right to take whatever land they want? Or does your fictitious god first have to give it to you?
Click to expand...



Minority groups have a right to struggle for their own survival.   "GOD"  has nothing to do with it       Large groups such as yours which claim the right to  Pillage, conquor, rape, murder and ultimately conrol and exploit and oppress will always face resistence.    The ultimate re-establishment of Israel    was assured when Constantine took over "holy roman"  empire-------and  a few hundred years later when the dogs of arabia entered  Jerusalem-------historically the resistence to your aggressonis  there have been going on since that time


----------



## Saigon

irosie91 said:


> Large groups such as yours which claim the right to  Pillage, conquor, rape, murder and ultimately conrol and exploit and oppress will always face resistence.    The ultimate re-establishment of Israel    was assured when Constantine took over "holy roman"  empire-------and  a few hundred years later when the dogs of arabia entered  Jerusalem-------historically the resistence to your aggressonis  there have been going on since that time



Interesting you don't mention the Crusades, which would probably be considered genocidal by most people these days. 

You mention rape, pillage, murder...all tactics favoured by the Christians at the time. 

Strange to find the "aggression" was something Muslims favoured...

btw, Constantine didn't "take over" the holy Roman empire - ho converted to Christianity only on his death bed.


----------



## irosie91

Saigon said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Large groups such as yours which claim the right to  Pillage, conquor, rape, murder and ultimately conrol and exploit and oppress will always face resistence.    The ultimate re-establishment of Israel    was assured when Constantine took over "holy roman"  empire-------and  a few hundred years later when the dogs of arabia entered  Jerusalem-------historically the resistence to your aggressonis  there have been going on since that time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting you don't mention the Crusades, which would probably be considered genocidal by most people these days.
> 
> You mention rape, pillage, murder...all tactics favoured by the Christians at the time.
> 
> Strange to find the "aggression" was something Muslims favoured...
> 
> btw, Constantine didn't "take over" the holy Roman empire - ho converted to Christianity only on his death bed.
Click to expand...



you are deflecting again      typical of the islamo nazi approach       Your comment regarding the Crusades is silly     I did not mention LOTS OF AGGRESSION in the history of the world      I am fully aware of the nature of islamo nazi revisionist history which is generally     "NOBLE MUSLIMS SAVE THE WORLD"    and   VICIOUS CRUSADERS FIGHT NOBLE MUSLIMS"      I learned that version from scores of muslims I encountered in my youth-----you professionals in the US  for -----continued professional training      They were all TOP NOTCH students from their countries and had learned the islamic version of history TO PERFECTION     Do you have pictures of noble scimitar bearing MUJAJADEEN   astride horses decorating the walls of your living room?

if you wish to talk about the crusades-----go right ahead----I might join the conversation

No one is really sure when or even if  CONSTANTINE  converted to christianity    His mother  HELENE was the ardent christian and his grandson codified the oppressive laws that governened anyone who resisted conversion to christianity and which are the model for both  DHIMMIA and THE NUREMBURG CODE       try to learn some real history


----------



## rebclick

Actually, Shechem (now Nablus) has a huge presence in Jewish History.  Shechem is the location of the original sacrifice Avraham made when he entered into convenant with G-d.  Shechem is the first capital of ancient Israel after the people crossed the Jordan from fleeing Egypt and wandering in the dessert for 40 years. Shechem is where the Tent of Meeting was set up before King David danced before the ark when he moved the Tent to Jerusalem.  Shechem was a Jewish city from around 1000 bce until around the fall of the temple circa 580 bce.  Prior inhabitants were Caananites - not related in any manner to the current "Palestinians".  Interesting to note that since "Palestine" is the name of the region associated with the Ottoman-Turk Empire and later taken over by the British Empire.. both Jew and NonJew were called Palestinian until 1967 when Yassar Arafat created the mentality that this was an "arab only" designation.    Jewish Holy sites in Shechem (now Nablus) i.e. Joseph's tomb is usually a source of hostility between the local Muslims and Jewish pilgrims wanting to visit and honor their ancestors.  If you do a Google Search using the words "Violence at Joseph's Tomb" you'll find that consistently Jews are prevented from visiting, chased off, attacked and otherwise abused for attempting to recognize their own holy site.


----------



## Hossfly

rebclick said:


> Actually, Shechem (now Nablus) has a huge presence in Jewish History.  Shechem is the location of the original sacrifice Avraham made when he entered into convenant with G-d.  Shechem is the first capital of ancient Israel after the people crossed the Jordan from fleeing Egypt and wandering in the dessert for 40 years. Shechem is where the Tent of Meeting was set up before King David danced before the ark when he moved the Tent to Jerusalem.  Shechem was a Jewish city from around 1000 bce until around the fall of the temple circa 580 bce.  Prior inhabitants were Caananites - not related in any manner to the current "Palestinians".  Interesting to note that since "Palestine" is the name of the region associated with the Ottoman-Turk Empire and later taken over by the British Empire.. both Jew and NonJew were called Palestinian until 1967 when Yassar Arafat created the mentality that this was an "arab only" designation.    Jewish Holy sites in Shechem (now Nablus) i.e. Joseph's tomb is usually a source of hostility between the local Muslims and Jewish pilgrims wanting to visit and honor their ancestors.  If you do a Google Search using the words "Violence at Joseph's Tomb" you'll find that consistently Jews are prevented from visiting, chased off, attacked and otherwise abused for attempting to recognize their own holy site.


Very good and welcome to this forum.


----------



## irosie91

I am fascinated     I did not know that shechem was all that significant other than the fact that one of my ancestors caused a fuss there over his sister  Dina

I assumed that shechem was----a place not particularly important to ----uhm standard jews because it was a place ----I think ---where  samaritins (karaites)  lived      I am amazed, however,  that anyone would claim it had "ARAB" inhabitants for  2500 years     -----quite a psychotic idea


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chumpsky makes a vald point (even a blind squirel stumbles across the occasional berry) but as is his penchant, adds an anti-American twist.
> In this case, "America's oil interests" is made to sound like "evil America" when the fact is the world depends on a steady stream of affordable oil. Protecting the Mideast conduit falls on the US because nobody else on the planet can do it and if we can use Israel in any way, we should do so.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know enough History to realize that when Chomsky was a young man Zionism meant *opposition* to a Jewish state? That it wasn't until 1942 that the Zionist movement came out officially in favor of a Jewish state?
> 
> "America's oil interests" refers to US control over who receives Middle East oil and how much they are entitled to. This has been true since the 1950s when the US supplied all its own domestic oil needs.
> 
> Those like Chomsky realized a Jewish state would be used as a cop on the beat to enforce "America's oil interests", and such a state would be discriminatory and racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I need to know where you get the crack you've been smokin'.
> BTW, you do realize that those hapless "Palestinians didn't become "Palestinians" until 1964 and when registering those would-be "Palestinians" as refugees in 1948 the UN only required proof of 2 years of residency, right Princess?
> 
> History of Zionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 'Zionism as an organized movement is generally considered to have been fathered by Theodor Herzl in 1897; however the history of Zionism began earlier and related to Judaism and Jewish history. The Hovevei Zion, or the Lovers of Zion, were responsible for the creation of 20 new Jewish settlements in Palestine between 1870 and 1897.[1]
> 
> Before the Holocaust the movement's central aims were the creation of a Jewish National Home and cultural centre in Palestine by facilitating Jewish migration. After the Holocaust, the movement focussed on creation of a "Jewish state" (usually defined as a secular state with a Jewish majority), attaining its goal in 1948 with the creation of Israel.'
Click to expand...

"QUESTION: Does Zionism have anything to do with the fate of the Palestinians?

CHOMSKY: This is a very complex problem. It depends on what you mean by Zionism. I was a Zionist activist in my youth. *For me, Zionism meant opposition to a Jewish state*. The Zionist movement did not come out officially in favor of a Jewish state until 1942. 

*"Before this it was merely the intent of the Zionist leadership..."*

Israel in Global Context, Noam Chomsky interviewed by Ludwig Watzal 

Hundreds of thousands of "hapless Palestinians" saw their homes, businesses and bank accounts stolen by the Zionists in 1948. Some of those Palestinians had deeds to land that had been in their families for generations.

Simple self-determination required all eligible voters of Mandate Palestine to decide if they wanted to live in a Jewish State. The only reason that didn't happen is that elites in the US and UK wanted a strategic asset loyal to western corporate interests in the heart of Arab oil.


----------



## georgephillip

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> You failed to answer my question before positing another of your own, Princess. That's so typical of you but I will, nonetheless, answer yours: Not yet.
> So why are you fixated on Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> When you say "(n)on-citizen residents of all* countries"*... you are implying Area C exists within a country called Israel. It doesn't. Area C is illegally occupied territory, and the Arab civilians living there are not the non-citizen residents; that would be the Jews. Again.
> 
> Why are you obsessed with placing Jewish interests over US interests?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In many areas the two are one and the same.
> Why are you so antipatetic towards America's self interest:
> "This was done largely to facilitate western control of Arab oil resources and stimulate arms sales, primarily in the US and UK."
Click to expand...

*Define "America's self interest."*

Was the cover-up of Israel's deliberate attack on the _USS Liberty_ in 1967 in the self-interest of all US citizens or only elite Americans hoping to profit from the crimeUSS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia?


----------



## SAYIT

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know enough History to realize that when Chomsky was a young man Zionism meant *opposition* to a Jewish state? That it wasn't until 1942 that the Zionist movement came out officially in favor of a Jewish state?
> 
> "America's oil interests" refers to US control over who receives Middle East oil and how much they are entitled to. This has been true since the 1950s when the US supplied all its own domestic oil needs.
> 
> Those like Chomsky realized a Jewish state would be used as a cop on the beat to enforce "America's oil interests", and such a state would be discriminatory and racist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I need to know where you get the crack you've been smokin'.
> BTW, you do realize that those hapless "Palestinians didn't become "Palestinians" until 1964 and when registering those would-be "Palestinians" as refugees in 1948 the UN only required proof of 2 years of residency, right Princess?
> 
> History of Zionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 'Zionism as an organized movement is generally considered to have been fathered by Theodor Herzl in 1897; however the history of Zionism began earlier and related to Judaism and Jewish history. The Hovevei Zion, or the Lovers of Zion, were responsible for the creation of 20 new Jewish settlements in Palestine between 1870 and 1897.[1]
> 
> Before the Holocaust the movement's central aims were the creation of a Jewish National Home and cultural centre in Palestine by facilitating Jewish migration. After the Holocaust, the movement focussed on creation of a "Jewish state" (usually defined as a secular state with a Jewish majority), attaining its goal in 1948 with the creation of Israel.'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "QUESTION: Does Zionism have anything to do with the fate of the Palestinians?
> CHOMSKY: This is a very complex problem. It depends on what you mean by Zionism. I was a Zionist activist in my youth. *For me, Zionism meant opposition to a Jewish state*. The Zionist movement did not come out officially in favor of a Jewish state until 1942.
> 
> *"Before this it was merely the intent of the Zionist leadership..."*
> 
> Israel in Global Context, Noam Chomsky interviewed by Ludwig Watzal
Click to expand...


Just Chumpsky's opinion which is refuted by the facts. He may not know much but he sure says it well.


----------



## Saigon

irosie91 said:


> you are deflecting again      typical of the islamo nazi approach       Your comment regarding the Crusades is silly     I did not mention LOTS OF AGGRESSION in the history of the world      I am fully aware of the nature of islamo nazi revisionist history which is generally     "NOBLE MUSLIMS SAVE THE WORLD"    and   VICIOUS CRUSADERS FIGHT NOBLE MUSLIMS"      I learned that version from scores of muslims I encountered in my youth-----you professionals in the US  for -----continued professional training      They were all TOP NOTCH students from their countries and had learned the islamic version of history TO PERFECTION     Do you have pictures of noble scimitar bearing MUJAJADEEN   astride horses decorating the walls of your living room?
> 
> if you wish to talk about the crusades-----go right ahead----I might join the conversation
> 
> No one is really sure when or even if  CONSTANTINE  converted to christianity    His mother  HELENE was the ardent christian and his grandson codified the oppressive laws that governened anyone who resisted conversion to christianity and which are the model for both  DHIMMIA and THE NUREMBURG CODE       try to learn some real history



Rosie - 

With the best will in the world - this is just gibbierish. It makes no sense at all. 

If you wish to repost it as something coherent, I will take a look at it.

btw. Don't you think it is ather funny that you accuse ME of deflecting - and then go on some bizarre rant about me supporting the Mujahadeen!!!


----------



## Saigon

> both Jew and NonJew were called Palestinian until 1967 when Yassar Arafat created the mentality that this was an "arab only" designation



Really?

So Jewish Israelis did not call themselves 'Israeli'?

Keep in mind that there is a big difference between what the UK or people at the League of Nations call people, and what they call themselves. 

You make a couple of good points in our post - but this is not one of them, as I am sure you realise yourself.


----------



## Roudy

Saigon said:


> both Jew and NonJew were called Palestinian until 1967 when Yassar Arafat created the mentality that this was an "arab only" designation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
> 
> So Jewish Israelis did not call themselves 'Israeli'?
> 
> Keep in mind that there is a big difference between what the UK or people at the League of Nations call people, and what they call themselves.
> 
> You make a couple of good points in our post - but this is not one of them, as I am sure you realise yourself.
Click to expand...

&#8220;Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?&#8221;
&#8220;We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag&#8221;.
&#8220;When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out&#8221;.

"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -

"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".
- Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -

"It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".
- Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -

The use of the term "Palestinian" for an Arab group is only a modern political creation without any historic or ethnic grounds, and did not indicate any people before 1967. An Arab writer and journalist declared: 

"There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of one percent of the landmass. But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today... No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough".


----------



## Roudy

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> both Jew and NonJew were called Palestinian until 1967 when Yassar Arafat created the mentality that this was an "arab only" designation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
> 
> So Jewish Israelis did not call themselves 'Israeli'?
> 
> Keep in mind that there is a big difference between what the UK or people at the League of Nations call people, and what they call themselves.
> 
> You make a couple of good points in our post - but this is not one of them, as I am sure you realise yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> &#8220;Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?&#8221;
> &#8220;We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag&#8221;.
> &#8220;When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out&#8221;.
> 
> "There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
> - Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -
> 
> "There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".
> - Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -
> 
> "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".
> - Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -
> 
> The use of the term "Palestinian" for an Arab group is only a modern political creation without any historic or ethnic grounds, and did not indicate any people before 1967. An Arab writer and journalist declared:
> 
> "There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of one percent of the landmass. But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today... No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough".
Click to expand...

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".
- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -

"You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people".
- Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -

"As I lived in Palestine, everyone I knew could trace their heritage back to the original country their great grandparents came from. Everyone knew their origin was not from the Canaanites, but ironically, this is the kind of stuff our education in the Middle East included. The fact is that today's Palestinians are immigrants from the surrounding nations! I grew up well knowing the history and origins of today's Palestinians as being from Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Christians from Greece, muslim Sherkas from Russia, muslims from Bosnia, and the Jordanians next door. My grandfather, who was a dignitary in Bethlehem, almost lost his life by Abdul Qader Al-Husseni (the leader of the Palestinian revolution) after being accused of selling land to Jews. He used to tell us that his village Beit Sahur (The Shepherds Fields) in Bethlehem County was empty before his father settled in the area with six other families. The town has now grown to 30,000 inhabitants".
- An "ex-Palestinian" Arab -


----------



## P F Tinmore

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chumpsky makes a vald point (even a blind squirel stumbles across the occasional berry) but as is his penchant, adds an anti-American twist.
> In this case, "America's oil interests" is made to sound like "evil America" when the fact is the world depends on a steady stream of affordable oil. Protecting the Mideast conduit falls on the US because nobody else on the planet can do it and if we can use Israel in any way, we should do so.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know enough History to realize that when Chomsky was a young man Zionism meant *opposition* to a Jewish state? That it wasn't until 1942 that the Zionist movement came out officially in favor of a Jewish state?
> 
> "America's oil interests" refers to US control over who receives Middle East oil and how much they are entitled to. This has been true since the 1950s when the US supplied all its own domestic oil needs.
> 
> Those like Chomsky realized a Jewish state would be used as a cop on the beat to enforce "America's oil interests", and such a state would be discriminatory and racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I need to know where you get the crack you've been smokin'.
> BTW, you do realize that those hapless "Palestinians didn't become "Palestinians" until 1964 and when registering those would-be "Palestinians" as refugees in 1948 the UN only required proof of 2 years of residency, right Princess?
> 
> History of Zionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 'Zionism as an organized movement is generally considered to have been fathered by Theodor Herzl in 1897; however the history of Zionism began earlier and related to Judaism and Jewish history. The Hovevei Zion, or the Lovers of Zion, were responsible for the creation of 20 new Jewish settlements in Palestine between 1870 and 1897.[1]
> 
> Before the Holocaust the movement's central aims were the creation of a Jewish National Home and cultural centre in Palestine by facilitating Jewish migration. After the Holocaust, the movement focussed on creation of a "Jewish state" (usually defined as a secular state with a Jewish majority), attaining its goal in 1948 with the creation of Israel.'
Click to expand...




> "Palestinians didn't become "Palestinians" until 1964 and when registering those would-be "Palestinians" as refugees in 1948 the UN



How did the UN register Palestinians in 1948 when there were no Palestinians until 1964?

You are confused.


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know enough History to realize that when Chomsky was a young man Zionism meant *opposition* to a Jewish state? That it wasn't until 1942 that the Zionist movement came out officially in favor of a Jewish state?
> 
> "America's oil interests" refers to US control over who receives Middle East oil and how much they are entitled to. This has been true since the 1950s when the US supplied all its own domestic oil needs.
> 
> Those like Chomsky realized a Jewish state would be used as a cop on the beat to enforce "America's oil interests", and such a state would be discriminatory and racist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I need to know where you get the crack you've been smokin'.
> BTW, you do realize that those hapless "Palestinians didn't become "Palestinians" until 1964 and when registering those would-be "Palestinians" as refugees in 1948 the UN only required proof of 2 years of residency, right Princess?
> 
> History of Zionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 'Zionism as an organized movement is generally considered to have been fathered by Theodor Herzl in 1897; however the history of Zionism began earlier and related to Judaism and Jewish history. The Hovevei Zion, or the Lovers of Zion, were responsible for the creation of 20 new Jewish settlements in Palestine between 1870 and 1897.[1]
> 
> Before the Holocaust the movement's central aims were the creation of a Jewish National Home and cultural centre in Palestine by facilitating Jewish migration. After the Holocaust, the movement focussed on creation of a "Jewish state" (usually defined as a secular state with a Jewish majority), attaining its goal in 1948 with the creation of Israel.'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Palestinians didn't become "Palestinians" until 1964 and when registering those would-be "Palestinians" as refugees in 1948 the UN
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How did the UN register Palestinians in 1948 when there were no Palestinians until 1964?
> 
> You are confused.
Click to expand...


The UN did not  "REGISTER"   'palestinians'     they aided  "refugees"  ----ie the arabs that nobody wanted


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> I need to know where you get the crack you've been smokin'.
> BTW, you do realize that those hapless "Palestinians didn't become "Palestinians" until 1964 and when registering those would-be "Palestinians" as refugees in 1948 the UN only required proof of 2 years of residency, right Princess?
> 
> History of Zionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 'Zionism as an organized movement is generally considered to have been fathered by Theodor Herzl in 1897; however the history of Zionism began earlier and related to Judaism and Jewish history. The Hovevei Zion, or the Lovers of Zion, were responsible for the creation of 20 new Jewish settlements in Palestine between 1870 and 1897.[1]
> 
> Before the Holocaust the movement's central aims were the creation of a Jewish National Home and cultural centre in Palestine by facilitating Jewish migration. After the Holocaust, the movement focussed on creation of a "Jewish state" (usually defined as a secular state with a Jewish majority), attaining its goal in 1948 with the creation of Israel.'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Palestinians didn't become "Palestinians" until 1964 and when registering those would-be "Palestinians" as refugees in 1948 the UN
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How did the UN register Palestinians in 1948 when there were no Palestinians until 1964?
> 
> You are confused.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The UN did not  "REGISTER"   'palestinians'     they aided  "refugees"  ----ie the arabs that nobody wanted
Click to expand...


And this is relevant how?


----------



## ima

So who gave Israel the right to exist?


----------



## georgephillip

ima said:


> So who gave Israel the right to exist?


G-d did it, for as long as the collection plate stays full.


----------



## irosie91

I assume that most people who post here frequnetly are adults---and probably adults at least over the age of 40 since younger people tend to have OTHER things to do     Yet so many of the posters----eg  Ima, georgie----write the kind of  comments one expects from the not so bright kids of the neighborhood who spend their time on street corners attempting to establish their personal being thru vulgarity and crude behavior -----I attended college in a rough city----long ago-----I and my fellow students walked thru the city to the various places where the scattered school buildings were located    In those days on ELECTION DAYS and VIRTUALLY ALL PUBLIC holidays---the bars were closed ----the city drunks would be seen ---looking a big confused, the gutters and alleys near the bars     They would belch  out cynical vulgar remarks at the passing students.     Whenever I read the posts of Ima or georgie----I am reminded of my school days and those silly frustrated inebriates


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> I assume that most people who post here frequnetly are adults---and probably adults at least over the age of 40 since younger people tend to have OTHER things to do     Yet so many of the posters----eg  Ima, georgie----write the kind of  comments one expects from the not so bright kids of the neighborhood who spend their time on street corners attempting to establish their personal being thru vulgarity and crude behavior -----I attended college in a rough city----long ago-----I and my fellow students walked thru the city to the various places where the scattered school buildings were located    In those days on ELECTION DAYS and VIRTUALLY ALL PUBLIC holidays---the bars were closed ----the city drunks would be seen ---looking a big confused, the gutters and alleys near the bars     They would belch  out cynical vulgar remarks at the passing students.     Whenever I read the posts of Ima or georgie----I am reminded of my school days and those silly frustrated inebriates



iro, so who gave Israel the right to exist?


----------



## Saigon

irosie91 said:


> I assume that most people who post here frequnetly are adults---and probably adults at least over the age of 40 since younger people tend to have OTHER things to do     Yet so many of the posters----eg  Ima, georgie----write the kind of  comments one expects from the not so bright kids of the neighborhood who spend their time on street corners attempting to establish their personal being thru vulgarity and crude behavior -----I attended college in a rough city----long ago-----I and my fellow students walked thru the city to the various places where the scattered school buildings were located    In those days on ELECTION DAYS and VIRTUALLY ALL PUBLIC holidays---the bars were closed ----the city drunks would be seen ---looking a big confused, the gutters and alleys near the bars     They would belch  out cynical vulgar remarks at the passing students.     Whenever I read the posts of Ima or georgie----I am reminded of my school days and those silly frustrated inebriates



I do agree with you on this Rosie - the level of literacy and politeness on these discussions is dreadful. 

I have never understood the need for personal abuse, nor in particular the amount of vulgarity about fucking pigs and sucking cock that Roudy, in particular, seems to feel he needs. 

It should be possible for people to disagree while still displaying a certain amount of dignity and self-respect. 

I have Ima on Ignore mode - I reccommend this solution!


----------



## Saigon

Roudy - 

If you genuinely do not understand the comments and quotes you have presented, I'll be happy to explain, however in this case I think we can assume that you understand it perfectly well yourself, and are simply pretending not to. 

Do you really think you will fool anyone into believing that stuff?

No - neither do I.


----------



## irosie91

ima said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I assume that most people who post here frequnetly are adults---and probably adults at least over the age of 40 since younger people tend to have OTHER things to do     Yet so many of the posters----eg  Ima, georgie----write the kind of  comments one expects from the not so bright kids of the neighborhood who spend their time on street corners attempting to establish their personal being thru vulgarity and crude behavior -----I attended college in a rough city----long ago-----I and my fellow students walked thru the city to the various places where the scattered school buildings were located    In those days on ELECTION DAYS and VIRTUALLY ALL PUBLIC holidays---the bars were closed ----the city drunks would be seen ---looking a big confused, the gutters and alleys near the bars     They would belch  out cynical vulgar remarks at the passing students.     Whenever I read the posts of Ima or georgie----I am reminded of my school days and those silly frustrated inebriates
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iro, so who gave Israel the right to exist?
Click to expand...


The   RIGHT TO EXIST    and to LIFE LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS ----is addressed in the a famous Document written by the famous scholar   THOMAS JEFFERSON in  1776----in  Philadelphia, Pa.    USA     in english-----it is an INHERENT RIGHT ----according to Tom who was very tall and had red hair.    His much shorter dark haired friend----John Adams,  agreed.   Abigail Adams insisted that women should also have rights which was as innovative an idea in  Pennsylvannia of  1776 as is the concept that jews should have rights in islamic circles     Thus the real issue in the Middle east as that as an INNOVATION   jews living there began to assert  "RIGHTS"    to the amazment of muslims sometime in the  1800s    which, interestingly enough----is actually when USA women began to increasingly assert rights.    My grandmother was a bit active as a teenager in the UNIONIST movement in the USA       She was born in 1899  in New York City-----and INTERESTINGLY was also a zionist----the right to vote was granted to women in  1920 ----the same year that my grandmother turned  21       She supported the unions,  israel and the right to vote-----and has ASSERTED these concepts as   INHERENT RIGHTS          who gave you the right to bother people with your incessant worthless postings?  ---the answer is  YOU HAVE AN INHERENT RIGHT TO BE A PAIN IN THE NECK


----------



## Roudy

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> If you genuinely do not understand the comments and quotes you have presented, I'll be happy to explain, however in this case I think we can assume that you understand it perfectly well yourself, and are simply pretending not to.
> 
> Do you really think you will fool anyone into believing that stuff?
> 
> No - neither do I.


The quotes speak for themselves. I didn't post them for an "explanation" from an ignoramus called Saigoon.  They are by Arabs. If you don't like what they say or represent take it up with them!


----------



## Saigon

Roudy - 

My assumption was that you were choosing not to understand the bleedingly obvious. 

It seems I was right.

I don't know what you get our of presenting a position which has absolutely no intellectual merit whatsoever, but I hope its good!


----------



## Roudy

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> My assumption was that you were choosing not to understand the bleedingly obvious.
> 
> It seems I was right.
> 
> I don't know what you get our of presenting a position which has absolutely no intellectual merit whatsoever, but I hope its good!


Wa?  When one of the PLO officials says "the term Palestinian is a Zionist invention" or "suddenly one day in 1967 woke I woke up and instead of Jordanian i was called a Palestinian" needs an "interpretation"?  

I'll take what the Arab leaders and historians of the time said about the "Palestinian people", than the delusional claims of an ignorant Internet imposter called Saigoon.


----------



## Saigon

Roudy - 

It doesn't need an intepretation - it needs honesty. 

Both statements seem fairly simple and straightforward to me, and I dare say to anyone else who actually has a genuine interest in the history. 

I don't know whether you genuinely don't understand enough of the details to get this, or if you are just trying to create controversy where none exists - we've seen you do both on any number of threads.

If you want me to explain, I will do, but I will expect you to acknolwedge that you are wrong when I've done so.


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I assume that most people who post here frequnetly are adults---and probably adults at least over the age of 40 since younger people tend to have OTHER things to do     Yet so many of the posters----eg  Ima, georgie----write the kind of  comments one expects from the not so bright kids of the neighborhood who spend their time on street corners attempting to establish their personal being thru vulgarity and crude behavior -----I attended college in a rough city----long ago-----I and my fellow students walked thru the city to the various places where the scattered school buildings were located    In those days on ELECTION DAYS and VIRTUALLY ALL PUBLIC holidays---the bars were closed ----the city drunks would be seen ---looking a big confused, the gutters and alleys near the bars     They would belch  out cynical vulgar remarks at the passing students.     Whenever I read the posts of Ima or georgie----I am reminded of my school days and those silly frustrated inebriates
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iro, so who gave Israel the right to exist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The   RIGHT TO EXIST    and to LIFE LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS ----is addressed in the a famous Document written by the famous scholar   THOMAS JEFFERSON in  1776----in  Philadelphia, Pa.    USA     in english-----it is an INHERENT RIGHT ----according to Tom who was very tall and had red hair.    His much shorter dark haired friend----John Adams,  agreed.   Abigail Adams insisted that women should also have rights which was as innovative an idea in  Pennsylvannia of  1776 as is the concept that jews should have rights in islamic circles     Thus the real issue in the Middle east as that as an INNOVATION   jews living there began to assert  "RIGHTS"    to the amazment of muslims sometime in the  1800s    which, interestingly enough----is actually when USA women began to increasingly assert rights.    My grandmother was a bit active as a teenager in the UNIONIST movement in the USA       She was born in 1899  in New York City-----and INTERESTINGLY was also a zionist----the right to vote was granted to women in  1920 ----the same year that my grandmother turned  21       She supported the unions,  israel and the right to vote-----and has ASSERTED these concepts as   INHERENT RIGHTS          who gave you the right to bother people with your incessant worthless postings?  ---the answer is  YOU HAVE AN INHERENT RIGHT TO BE A PAIN IN THE NECK
Click to expand...


So Thomas J. gave Israel the right to exist?


----------



## irosie91

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy -
> 
> My assumption was that you were choosing not to understand the bleedingly obvious.
> 
> It seems I was right.
> 
> I don't know what you get our of presenting a position which has absolutely no intellectual merit whatsoever, but I hope its good!
> 
> 
> 
> Wa?  When one of the PLO officials says "the term Palestinian is a Zionist invention" or "suddenly one day in 1967 woke I woke up and instead of Jordanian i was called a Palestinian" needs an "interpretation"?
> 
> I'll take what the Arab leaders and historians of the time said about the "Palestinian people", than the delusional claims of an ignorant Internet imposter called Saigoon.
Click to expand...



Roudy      Have a heart------islamic history has been REVISED   to create a new ANCIENT PEOPLE   called   "THE PALESTINIANS"     In the name of historical revision----our dear cousins have even determined that   HEBREW IS A DIALECT OF ARABIC       The idea is that the PALESTINIAN PEOPLE  ---like Abraham and Ishmael    spoke arabic and then some foreign peoples   ---somehow got their hands on the language and it morphed into hebrew somewhere in  Russia     Also---as everyone knews----another group of  PALESTINIANS---were the  philistines----relatives of Goliath and Delilah      Try to adapt    ---uhm    the true history of PALESTINE AND THE PALESTINIANS IS A WORK IN PROGRESS-----but when it is done it will all be an  ETERNAL TRUTH

which one of our posters said   "ARABS HAVE BEEN LIVING IN NABLUS FOR 2500 YEARS"        see?    and you thought that the term  "NABLUS"   is just how arabs say  NEOPOLIS------WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!   NEOPOLIS  was how romans said  NABLUS ---uhm   about 1800 years ago      When the romans came on  NABLUS      they said  "oh---neopolis"   because they thought  NABLUS is a latin word     

Most of all----never bring up the issue of written language-----uhm-----hebrew used to be arabic------but somehow all examples of that ancient arabic writting disappeared from palestine


----------



## Roudy

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> It doesn't need an intepretation - it needs honesty.
> 
> Both statements seem fairly simple and straightforward to me, and I dare say to anyone else who actually has a genuine interest in the history.
> 
> I don't know whether you genuinely don't understand enough of the details to get this, or if you are just trying to create controversy where none exists - we've seen you do both on any number of threads.
> 
> If you want me to explain, I will do, but I will expect you to acknolwedge that you are wrong when I've done so.


Nah, you're just upset at these quotes BY ARAB LEADERS AND HISTORIANS about the existence or lack thereof of a "Palestinian people".  

&#8220;Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?&#8221;
&#8220;We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag&#8221;.
&#8220;When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out&#8221;.

"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -

"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".
- Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -

"It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".
- Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -

The use of the term "Palestinian" for an Arab group is only a modern political creation without any historic or ethnic grounds, and did not indicate any people before 1967. An Arab writer and journalist declared: 

"There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of one percent of the landmass. But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today... No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough". 

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".
- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -

"You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people".
- Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -

"As I lived in Palestine, everyone I knew could trace their heritage back to the original country their great grandparents came from. Everyone knew their origin was not from the Canaanites, but ironically, this is the kind of stuff our education in the Middle East included. The fact is that today's Palestinians are immigrants from the surrounding nations! I grew up well knowing the history and origins of today's Palestinians as being from Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Christians from Greece, muslim Sherkas from Russia, muslims from Bosnia, and the Jordanians next door. My grandfather, who was a dignitary in Bethlehem, almost lost his life by Abdul Qader Al-Husseni (the leader of the Palestinian revolution) after being accused of selling land to Jews. He used to tell us that his village Beit Sahur (The Shepherds Fields) in Bethlehem County was empty before his father settled in the area with six other families. The town has now grown to 30,000 inhabitants".
- An "ex-Palestinian" Arab -


----------



## Saigon

Roudy - 

If you'd prefer to be wrong, that is fine with me. 

If at some point you do genuinely want to understand the history, let me know, and I'll explain it to you.


----------



## sealadaigh

irosie91 said:


> I assume that most people who post here frequnetly are adults---and probably adults at least over the age of 40 since younger people tend to have OTHER things to do     Yet so many of the posters----eg  Ima, georgie----write the kind of  comments one expects from the not so bright kids of the neighborhood* who spend their time on street corners attempting to establish their personal being thru vulgarity and crude behavior* -----I attended college in a rough city----long ago-----I and my fellow students walked thru the city to the various places where the scattered school buildings were located    In those days on ELECTION DAYS and VIRTUALLY ALL PUBLIC holidays---the bars were closed ----the city drunks would be seen ---looking a big confused, the gutters and alleys near the bars     *They would belch  out cynical vulgar remarks *at the passing students.     Whenever I read the posts of Ima or georgie----I am reminded of my school days and those silly frustrated inebriates



perhaps you also assume that none of us have read any of your prior posts?


----------



## irosie91

reabhloideach said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I assume that most people who post here frequnetly are adults---and probably adults at least over the age of 40 since younger people tend to have OTHER things to do     Yet so many of the posters----eg  Ima, georgie----write the kind of  comments one expects from the not so bright kids of the neighborhood* who spend their time on street corners attempting to establish their personal being thru vulgarity and crude behavior* -----I attended college in a rough city----long ago-----I and my fellow students walked thru the city to the various places where the scattered school buildings were located    In those days on ELECTION DAYS and VIRTUALLY ALL PUBLIC holidays---the bars were closed ----the city drunks would be seen ---looking a big confused, the gutters and alleys near the bars     *They would belch  out cynical vulgar remarks *at the passing students.     Whenever I read the posts of Ima or georgie----I am reminded of my school days and those silly frustrated inebriates
> 
> 
> 
> 
> perhaps you also assume that none of us have read any of your prior posts?
Click to expand...


My posts cannot possibly be confused with the belchings of a chronic inebriate such as those who occupied the gutters and alleys of the city I described.   My sentence structure is too complex.    There have been studies regarding dementia and sentence structure which reveal that  dementia can be detected thru increasingly simplistic sentence structure in the written output of dements      As to chronic alcoholism ---it does result in dementia      The only people who seem to be able to remain  ELOQUENT   while drunk ------are the Irish


----------



## Saigon

irosie91 said:


> My sentence structure is too complex. h



Your sentence structure breaks virtually every known law of grammar. 

In all seriousness, Rosie, your English really is quite shocking.


----------



## Roudy

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> If you'd prefer to be wrong, that is fine with me.
> 
> If at some point you do genuinely want to understand the history, let me know, and I'll explain it to you.


You have no knowledge of "history" just a desire to mutilate and fabricate it, as you have clearly exhibited.


----------



## irosie91

Saigon said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My sentence structure is too complex. h
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your sentence structure breaks virtually every known law of grammar.
> 
> In all seriousness, Rosie, your English really is quite shocking.
Click to expand...


My grammar is excellent.   My english is excellent.   In my student days I was appointed by the english comp. faculty to teach idiots like you how to write a decent english composition.    You missed a few commas in your last sentence.


----------



## Saigon

Rosie - 

At least you have a sense of humour.


----------



## Roudy

Saigon said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My sentence structure is too complex. h
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your sentence structure breaks virtually every known law of grammar.
> 
> In all seriousness, Rosie, your English really is quite shocking.
Click to expand...

You are in no position to criticize rosie.  She has more knowledge of the history and facts of the region on her little finger than you will have in your entire imposter life.  Her claims are always factually correct and filled with decency and emotion, and very entertaining the way she humiliates a Jew hater.  This is not grammar class.


----------



## irosie91

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy -
> 
> If you'd prefer to be wrong, that is fine with me.
> 
> If at some point you do genuinely want to understand the history, let me know, and I'll explain it to you.
> 
> 
> 
> You have no knowledge of "history" just a desire to mutilate and fabricate it, as you have clearly exhibited.
Click to expand...



How  COURTEOUS of you to find errors in my discussion of history----and not MENTION just what those errors are    Do not be shy---It is important to me to KNOW  in what manner I have "mutilated" history       I HOPE you will tell me as soon as possible.


----------



## Saigon

IRosie - 

You might want to work on that reading skill as well. 

Roudy was the one spouting the usual abuse about "mutilating" history - not me. 

btw. I pointed out three or four major errors in your knowledge of history yesterday. A couple of Pakistan, one about Sudan...remember?


----------



## Roudy

irosie91 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy -
> 
> If you'd prefer to be wrong, that is fine with me.
> 
> If at some point you do genuinely want to understand the history, let me know, and I'll explain it to you.
> 
> 
> 
> You have no knowledge of "history" just a desire to mutilate and fabricate it, as you have clearly exhibited.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How  COURTEOUS of you to find errors in my discussion of history----and not MENTION just what those errors are    Do not be shy---It is important to me to KNOW  in what manner I have "mutilated" history       I HOPE you will tell me as soon as possible.
Click to expand...

Hey rosie...you read that wrong.  I was commenting on Saigooon's critique of you.


----------



## irosie91

Roudy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have no knowledge of "history" just a desire to mutilate and fabricate it, as you have clearly exhibited.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How  COURTEOUS of you to find errors in my discussion of history----and not MENTION just what those errors are    Do not be shy---It is important to me to KNOW  in what manner I have "mutilated" history       I HOPE you will tell me as soon as possible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey rosie...you read that wrong.  I was commenting on Saigooon's critique of you.
Click to expand...



hey roudy     I was addressing my comment to SAIGOON     not you----but for some reason he has never answered      SHOULD I HOLD MY BREATH?


----------



## ima

So iro, Thomas jefferson gave Israel the right to exist?


----------



## Roudy

ima said:


> So iro, Thomas jefferson gave Israel the right to exist?


Israel's right to exist is based on the same principle's as all other nations.  The question is in itself stupid and juvenile.


----------



## Roudy

irosie91 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How  COURTEOUS of you to find errors in my discussion of history----and not MENTION just what those errors are    Do not be shy---It is important to me to KNOW  in what manner I have "mutilated" history       I HOPE you will tell me as soon as possible.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey rosie...you read that wrong.  I was commenting on Saigooon's critique of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hey roudy     I was addressing my comment to SAIGOON     not you----but for some reason he has never answered      SHOULD I HOLD MY BREATH?
Click to expand...

No problems irose.  Don't hold your breath, if Saigoon responds it will be the usual garbagio of ignorance and arrogance mixed with denial and diversion.


----------



## ima

Roudy said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> So iro, Thomas jefferson gave Israel the right to exist?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's right to exist is based on the same principle's as all other nations.  The question is in itself stupid and juvenile.
Click to expand...


iro said TJ gave them the right. By nations, do you mean existing nations, or that every sub-group of humans (like the kurds) has a right to a nation?


----------



## Roudy

ima said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> So iro, Thomas jefferson gave Israel the right to exist?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's right to exist is based on the same principle's as all other nations.  The question is in itself stupid and juvenile.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> iro said TJ gave them the right. By nations, do you mean existing nations, or that every sub-group of humans (like the kurds) has a right to a nation?
Click to expand...

Another stupid question.  Once the Kurds establish their nation, recognized by the international community, then it too will have a right to exist.  The Palestinians have never been a "people" just a bunch of mixed Arab invadors from neighboring countries.  They of all people, have the least of all "rights" to a nation.


----------



## irosie91

Lots of this discussion centers around  SEMANTICS     Israel has had an interest in establishing the idea that  muslims should recognize the fact that they should not  ATTACK ISRAEL    which they have done for more than 100 years on the basis of the islamic concept that jews do not have a right to own land and establish a nation----that is ---what Israel really wants is that muslims give up the idea that   "MUSLIMS HAVE A RIGHT TO DESTROY ISRAEL"-----but it is such a difficult idea to express         as in    "MUSLIMS RECOGNIZE THAT MUSLIMS DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO SLIT THE THROATS OF JEWISH INFANTS AND TOSS BOMBS ON ISRAEL AND KILL ALL ISRAELIS"      If Israel demended THAT ------Israel would be accused of trying to   DESTROY ISLAAAAAAM


----------



## ima

Roudy said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's right to exist is based on the same principle's as all other nations.  The question is in itself stupid and juvenile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iro said TJ gave them the right. By nations, do you mean existing nations, or that every sub-group of humans (like the kurds) has a right to a nation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another stupid question.  Once the Kurds establish their nation, recognized by the international community, then it too will have a right to exist.  The Palestinians have never been a "people" just a bunch of mixed Arab invadors from neighboring countries.  They of all people, have the least of all "rights" to a nation.
Click to expand...


Jews are a religion, not a different race.

So if me and a few friends make up a religion then go into Central Park and establish ourselves a nation for no matter how small a time before the cops come and kiss our asses, we will then have earned the right to exist?


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I assume that most people who post here frequnetly are adults---and probably adults at least over the age of 40 since younger people tend to have OTHER things to do     Yet so many of the posters----eg  Ima, georgie----write the kind of  comments one expects from the not so bright kids of the neighborhood who spend their time on street corners attempting to establish their personal being thru vulgarity and crude behavior -----I attended college in a rough city----long ago-----I and my fellow students walked thru the city to the various places where the scattered school buildings were located    In those days on ELECTION DAYS and VIRTUALLY ALL PUBLIC holidays---the bars were closed ----the city drunks would be seen ---looking a big confused, the gutters and alleys near the bars     They would belch  out cynical vulgar remarks at the passing students.     Whenever I read the posts of Ima or georgie----I am reminded of my school days and those silly frustrated inebriates
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iro, so who gave Israel the right to exist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The   RIGHT TO EXIST    and to LIFE LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS ----is addressed in the a famous Document written by the famous scholar   THOMAS JEFFERSON in  1776----in  Philadelphia, Pa.    USA     in english-----it is an INHERENT RIGHT ----according to Tom who was very tall and had red hair.    His much shorter dark haired friend----John Adams,  agreed.   Abigail Adams insisted that women should also have rights which was as innovative an idea in  Pennsylvannia of  1776 as is the concept that jews should have rights in islamic circles     Thus the real issue in the Middle east as that as an INNOVATION   jews living there began to assert  "RIGHTS"    to the amazment of muslims sometime in the  1800s    which, interestingly enough----is actually when USA women began to increasingly assert rights.    My grandmother was a bit active as a teenager in the UNIONIST movement in the USA       She was born in 1899  in New York City-----and INTERESTINGLY was also a zionist----the right to vote was granted to women in  1920 ----the same year that my grandmother turned  21       She supported the unions,  israel and the right to vote-----and has ASSERTED these concepts as   INHERENT RIGHTS          who gave you the right to bother people with your incessant worthless postings?  ---the answer is  YOU HAVE AN INHERENT RIGHT TO BE A PAIN IN THE NECK
Click to expand...


There is a recognised right to self-determination in international law.  It is controversial whether a positive right to armed struggle to fulfil this right exists. It is clearly illegal under international law to deprive a people of their right to self-determination by using forcible actions including use of violence.

By virtue of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations, all peoples have the right freely to determine, *without external interference,* their political status and to pursue their economic, social and cultural development, and every State has the duty to respect this right in accordance with the provisions of the Charter. 

A people can be said to have realised its right to self-determination when they have either (1) established a sovereign and independent state; (2) freely associated with another state or (3) integrated with another state after freely having expressed their will to do so . The definition of realisation of self-determination was confirmed in the Declaration of Friendly Relations .  

The right to self-determination - IHL


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> iro, so who gave Israel the right to exist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The   RIGHT TO EXIST    and to LIFE LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS ----is addressed in the a famous Document written by the famous scholar   THOMAS JEFFERSON in  1776----in  Philadelphia, Pa.    USA     in english-----it is an INHERENT RIGHT ----according to Tom who was very tall and had red hair.    His much shorter dark haired friend----John Adams,  agreed.   Abigail Adams insisted that women should also have rights which was as innovative an idea in  Pennsylvannia of  1776 as is the concept that jews should have rights in islamic circles     Thus the real issue in the Middle east as that as an INNOVATION   jews living there began to assert  "RIGHTS"    to the amazment of muslims sometime in the  1800s    which, interestingly enough----is actually when USA women began to increasingly assert rights.    My grandmother was a bit active as a teenager in the UNIONIST movement in the USA       She was born in 1899  in New York City-----and INTERESTINGLY was also a zionist----the right to vote was granted to women in  1920 ----the same year that my grandmother turned  21       She supported the unions,  israel and the right to vote-----and has ASSERTED these concepts as   INHERENT RIGHTS          who gave you the right to bother people with your incessant worthless postings?  ---the answer is  YOU HAVE AN INHERENT RIGHT TO BE A PAIN IN THE NECK
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a recognised right to self-determination in international law.  It is controversial whether a positive right to armed struggle to fulfil this right exists. It is clearly illegal under international law to deprive a people of their right to self-determination by using forcible actions including use of violence.
> 
> By virtue of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations, all peoples have the right freely to determine, *without external interference,* their political status and to pursue their economic, social and cultural development, and every State has the duty to respect this right in accordance with the provisions of the Charter.
> 
> A people can be said to have realised its right to self-determination when they have either (1) established a sovereign and independent state; (2) freely associated with another state or (3) integrated with another state after freely having expressed their will to do so . The definition of realisation of self-determination was confirmed in the Declaration of Friendly Relations .
> 
> The right to self-determination - IHL
Click to expand...

Problem is the Palestinians aren't "a people".  It's a fictitious name given to invading Arabs.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The   RIGHT TO EXIST    and to LIFE LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS ----is addressed in the a famous Document written by the famous scholar   THOMAS JEFFERSON in  1776----in  Philadelphia, Pa.    USA     in english-----it is an INHERENT RIGHT ----according to Tom who was very tall and had red hair.    His much shorter dark haired friend----John Adams,  agreed.   Abigail Adams insisted that women should also have rights which was as innovative an idea in  Pennsylvannia of  1776 as is the concept that jews should have rights in islamic circles     Thus the real issue in the Middle east as that as an INNOVATION   jews living there began to assert  "RIGHTS"    to the amazment of muslims sometime in the  1800s    which, interestingly enough----is actually when USA women began to increasingly assert rights.    My grandmother was a bit active as a teenager in the UNIONIST movement in the USA       She was born in 1899  in New York City-----and INTERESTINGLY was also a zionist----the right to vote was granted to women in  1920 ----the same year that my grandmother turned  21       She supported the unions,  israel and the right to vote-----and has ASSERTED these concepts as   INHERENT RIGHTS          who gave you the right to bother people with your incessant worthless postings?  ---the answer is  YOU HAVE AN INHERENT RIGHT TO BE A PAIN IN THE NECK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a recognised right to self-determination in international law.  It is controversial whether a positive right to armed struggle to fulfil this right exists. It is clearly illegal under international law to deprive a people of their right to self-determination by using forcible actions including use of violence.
> 
> By virtue of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations, all peoples have the right freely to determine, *without external interference,* their political status and to pursue their economic, social and cultural development, and every State has the duty to respect this right in accordance with the provisions of the Charter.
> 
> A people can be said to have realised its right to self-determination when they have either (1) established a sovereign and independent state; (2) freely associated with another state or (3) integrated with another state after freely having expressed their will to do so . The definition of realisation of self-determination was confirmed in the Declaration of Friendly Relations .
> 
> The right to self-determination - IHL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Problem is the Palestinians aren't "a people".  It's a fictitious name given to invading Arabs.
Click to expand...


So says Israel's propaganda bullshit.


----------



## Hossfly

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> If you'd prefer to be wrong, that is fine with me.
> 
> If at some point you do genuinely want to understand the history, let me know, and I'll explain it to you.


You think Roudy made up those quotes? 
You don't win a seegar today.


----------



## ima

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The   RIGHT TO EXIST    and to LIFE LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS ----is addressed in the a famous Document written by the famous scholar   THOMAS JEFFERSON in  1776----in  Philadelphia, Pa.    USA     in english-----it is an INHERENT RIGHT ----according to Tom who was very tall and had red hair.    His much shorter dark haired friend----John Adams,  agreed.   Abigail Adams insisted that women should also have rights which was as innovative an idea in  Pennsylvannia of  1776 as is the concept that jews should have rights in islamic circles     Thus the real issue in the Middle east as that as an INNOVATION   jews living there began to assert  "RIGHTS"    to the amazment of muslims sometime in the  1800s    which, interestingly enough----is actually when USA women began to increasingly assert rights.    My grandmother was a bit active as a teenager in the UNIONIST movement in the USA       She was born in 1899  in New York City-----and INTERESTINGLY was also a zionist----the right to vote was granted to women in  1920 ----the same year that my grandmother turned  21       She supported the unions,  israel and the right to vote-----and has ASSERTED these concepts as   INHERENT RIGHTS          who gave you the right to bother people with your incessant worthless postings?  ---the answer is  YOU HAVE AN INHERENT RIGHT TO BE A PAIN IN THE NECK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a recognised right to self-determination in international law.  It is controversial whether a positive right to armed struggle to fulfil this right exists. It is clearly illegal under international law to deprive a people of their right to self-determination by using forcible actions including use of violence.
> 
> By virtue of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations, all peoples have the right freely to determine, *without external interference,* their political status and to pursue their economic, social and cultural development, and every State has the duty to respect this right in accordance with the provisions of the Charter.
> 
> A people can be said to have realised its right to self-determination when they have either (1) established a sovereign and independent state; (2) freely associated with another state or (3) integrated with another state after freely having expressed their will to do so . The definition of realisation of self-determination was confirmed in the Declaration of Friendly Relations .
> 
> The right to self-determination - IHL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Problem is the Palestinians aren't "a people".  It's a fictitious name given to invading Arabs.
Click to expand...


Jews aren't a people either, it's a religion. Or are catholics a people too?


----------



## Roudy

ima said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a recognised right to self-determination in international law.  It is controversial whether a positive right to armed struggle to fulfil this right exists. It is clearly illegal under international law to deprive a people of their right to self-determination by using forcible actions including use of violence.
> 
> &#8220;By virtue of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations, all peoples have the right freely to determine, *without external interference,* their political status and to pursue their economic, social and cultural development, and every State has the duty to respect this right in accordance with the provisions of the Charter.&#8221;
> 
> A people can be said to have realised its right to self-determination when they have either (1) established a sovereign and independent state; (2) freely associated with another state or (3) integrated with another state after freely having expressed their will to do so . The definition of realisation of self-determination was confirmed in the Declaration of Friendly Relations .
> 
> The right to self-determination - IHL
> 
> 
> 
> Problem is the Palestinians aren't "a people".  It's a fictitious name given to invading Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews aren't a people either, it's a religion. Or are catholics a people too?
Click to expand...

Catholics defined them as a people, Muslims defined them as a people, Jesus and Mohamamd defined them as a people, Christians defined them as a people, the Nazis defined them as a people (before they committed genocide on them), and all civilizations, Romans, Greeks, and Persians, defined them as a people. You don't have the facts OR history on your side.


----------



## Roudy

Hossfly said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy -
> 
> If you'd prefer to be wrong, that is fine with me.
> 
> If at some point you do genuinely want to understand the history, let me know, and I'll explain it to you.
> 
> 
> 
> You think Roudy made up those quotes?
> You don't win a seegar today.
Click to expand...

Hard to figure out what Saigoon means. One thing for sure, it doesn't like them quotes!


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a recognised right to self-determination in international law.  It is controversial whether a positive right to armed struggle to fulfil this right exists. It is clearly illegal under international law to deprive a people of their right to self-determination by using forcible actions including use of violence.
> 
> &#8220;By virtue of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations, all peoples have the right freely to determine, *without external interference,* their political status and to pursue their economic, social and cultural development, and every State has the duty to respect this right in accordance with the provisions of the Charter.&#8221;
> 
> A people can be said to have realised its right to self-determination when they have either (1) established a sovereign and independent state; (2) freely associated with another state or (3) integrated with another state after freely having expressed their will to do so . The definition of realisation of self-determination was confirmed in the Declaration of Friendly Relations .
> 
> The right to self-determination - IHL
> 
> 
> 
> Problem is the Palestinians aren't "a people".  It's a fictitious name given to invading Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So says Israel's propaganda bullshit.
Click to expand...

Are these Arab leaders and historians "part of Israel's propaganda"?

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".
- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO -

"You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people".
- Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -


"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -

The use of the term "Palestinian" for an Arab group is only a modern political creation without any historic or ethnic grounds, and did not indicate any people before 1967. An Arab writer and journalist declared: 

"There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of one percent of the landmass. But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today... No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Problem is the Palestinians aren't "a people".  It's a fictitious name given to invading Arabs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So says Israel's propaganda bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are these Arab leaders and historians "part of Israel's propaganda"?
> 
> "There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".
> - Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO -
> 
> "You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people".
> - Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -
> 
> 
> "There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
> - Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -
> 
> The use of the term "Palestinian" for an Arab group is only a modern political creation without any historic or ethnic grounds, and did not indicate any people before 1967. An Arab writer and journalist declared:
> 
> "There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of one percent of the landmass. But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today... No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough".
Click to expand...


No problem. Would you like me to post some Jews?


----------



## Saigon

Hossfly said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy -
> 
> If you'd prefer to be wrong, that is fine with me.
> 
> If at some point you do genuinely want to understand the history, let me know, and I'll explain it to you.
> 
> 
> 
> You think Roudy made up those quotes?
> You don't win a seegar today.
Click to expand...


No, the quotes are correct - though at least one of them was not made by the person he claims made it. 

Anyone who follows this issue knows why the quotes were made, and what they refer to. I don't see anything weird, difficult or controversial there at all. 

Whether Roudy genuinelly doesn't understand, or is pretending not to understand, I coudn't say. 

Either way, I don't see much value in triumphing ignorance.


----------



## Saigon

irosie91 said:


> Lots of this discussion centers around  SEMANTICS



I agee that it does, but only amongst extremists. 

I think it's particularly callous when people try to claim that people living in Turkey were Seljuks and Ottomans - without admitting that Seljuks and Ottomans are the forefathers or today's Turks.

Likewise, Canaanites, Philistines and so forth are the forefathers of today's Palestinians. 

We can go around the world and find dozens of countries where the nation state did not exist for a millenium after people settled the land - Germany, Italy and Canada being examples.

When was the last time one of the extremists here claimed Canada didn't exist?

Everyone knows this, but dishonest people choose to distort it.


----------



## docmauser1

Saigon said:


> _Likewise, Canaanites, Philistines and so forth are the forefathers of today's Palestinians._


Algerian palistanians, sudanese palistanians, egyptian palistanians, lebanese palistanians, syrian palistanians, iraqi palistanians, jordanians palistanians, etc., Philistines were everywhere, indeed. Any angry arab a palistanian, of course.


----------



## ima

Saigon said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of this discussion centers around  SEMANTICS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agee that it does, but only amongst extremists.
> 
> I think it's particularly callous when people try to claim that people living in Turkey were Seljuks and Ottomans - without admitting that Seljuks and Ottomans are the forefathers or today's Turks.
> 
> Likewise, Canaanites, Philistines and so forth are the forefathers of today's Palestinians.
> 
> We can go around the world and find dozens of countries where the nation state did not exist for a millenium after people settled the land - Germany, Italy and Canada being examples.
> 
> When was the last time one of the extremists here claimed Canada didn't exist?
> 
> Everyone knows this, but dishonest people choose to distort it.
Click to expand...


Canada is like Finland, a waste of wood.

Q: What is the difference between an empty stomach and a Finnish person who wants to ask something from a stranger?

A: You can actually hear the empty stomach.


----------



## irosie91

there is no evidence at all that  philistines have any connection at all either genetically or culturally to  today's Philistines      As to GENETIC connection-----it really does not matter.  Comments regarding this issue are made by idiots who have absolutely no notion about the subject of population genetics       Of course ----if SAIGOOOON imagines he can exploit the "genetic connection arguement"  for land ownership-----the world's problem is solved.  Simply analyze everyone's DNA     ---trace migration and distribute the world's population according to migration patterns-------and FORGET ABOUT  countries and land purchase and language and culture ---etc etc

An interesting factoid is that in arab/muslim  "culture"  -----the claim of a genetic link to   "AL NABI"  or one of his depraved pals  is socially   so much a PLUS   that there are people in every village who make such a claim and arab rulers routinely make it       They are going to be damned pissed off at  SAIGOON's inistence that they all  GO BACK TO ARABIA


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> there is no evidence at all that  philistines have any connection at all either genetically or culturally to  today's Philistines      As to GENETIC connection-----it really does not matter.  Comments regarding this issue are made by idiots who have absolutely no notion about the subject of population genetics       Of course ----if SAIGOOOON imagines he can exploit the "genetic connection arguement"  for land ownership-----the world's problem is solved.  Simply analyze everyone's DNA     ---trace migration and distribute the world's population according to migration patterns-------and FORGET ABOUT  countries and land purchase and language and culture ---etc etc
> 
> An interesting factoid is that in arab/muslim  "culture"  -----the claim of a genetic link to   "AL NABI"  or one of his depraved pals  is socially   so much a PLUS   that there are people in every village who make such a claim and arab rulers routinely make it       They are going to be damned pissed off at  SAIGOON's inistence that they all  GO BACK TO ARABIA



This whole discussion is sooooooooooooooooooooooooo irrelevant.


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> there is no evidence at all that  philistines have any connection at all either genetically or culturally to  today's Philistines      As to GENETIC connection-----it really does not matter.  Comments regarding this issue are made by idiots who have absolutely no notion about the subject of population genetics       Of course ----if SAIGOOOON imagines he can exploit the "genetic connection arguement"  for land ownership-----the world's problem is solved.  Simply analyze everyone's DNA     ---trace migration and distribute the world's population according to migration patterns-------and FORGET ABOUT  countries and land purchase and language and culture ---etc etc
> 
> An interesting factoid is that in arab/muslim  "culture"  -----the claim of a genetic link to   "AL NABI"  or one of his depraved pals  is socially   so much a PLUS   that there are people in every village who make such a claim and arab rulers routinely make it       They are going to be damned pissed off at  SAIGOON's inistence that they all  GO BACK TO ARABIA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This whole discussion is sooooooooooooooooooooooooo irrelevant.
Click to expand...



I did not bring it up       Population genetics is interesting but its usefulness in determining political realities is highly limited


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> there is no evidence at all that  philistines have any connection at all either genetically or culturally to  today's Philistines      As to GENETIC connection-----it really does not matter.  Comments regarding this issue are made by idiots who have absolutely no notion about the subject of population genetics       Of course ----if SAIGOOOON imagines he can exploit the "genetic connection arguement"  for land ownership-----the world's problem is solved.  Simply analyze everyone's DNA     ---trace migration and distribute the world's population according to migration patterns-------and FORGET ABOUT  countries and land purchase and language and culture ---etc etc
> 
> An interesting factoid is that in arab/muslim  "culture"  -----the claim of a genetic link to   "AL NABI"  or one of his depraved pals  is socially   so much a PLUS   that there are people in every village who make such a claim and arab rulers routinely make it       They are going to be damned pissed off at  SAIGOON's inistence that they all  GO BACK TO ARABIA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This whole discussion is sooooooooooooooooooooooooo irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I did not bring it up       Population genetics is interesting but its usefulness in determining political realities is highly limited
Click to expand...


Indeed, it is such a silly argument. Many Muslims and Jews moved to Palestine when they were kicked out of Spain in 1492. Does that mean that neither can call Palestine home?


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This whole discussion is sooooooooooooooooooooooooo irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did not bring it up       Population genetics is interesting but its usefulness in determining political realities is highly limited
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, it is such a silly argument. Many Muslims and Jews moved to Palestine when they were kicked out of Spain in 1492. Does that mean that neither can call Palestine home?
Click to expand...



Palestine was PARTITIONED   in   1948   because of emnity between muslims and jews----the emnity is based on the desire of muslims to impose the filth of shariah     Sudan was partiitioned recently for the same reason       India was partitioned in  1948 for the same reason       In order to save the christians of Lebanon----it would be reasonable to partition  Lebanon       If Arabia were partitioned 1400 years ago------the christian, jewish, zoroastrian genocides there mignt not have occured       In fact    hundreds of millions of lives might have been saved if people were not subjected to genocide under the laws you advocate

are you enjoying the current ongoing blood bath?     The reason it is legal for  sunnis to massacre   shiites is the LEGAL CONCEPT OF TAKFIR    in which muslims can declare 'THE OTHER"   sect of islam to be   NOT ISLAM      at that point   -----since the "others"  are not muslims     killing them becomes legal under shariah            Have fun          it is accelerating to YOUR DELIGHT


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not bring it up       Population genetics is interesting but its usefulness in determining political realities is highly limited
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, it is such a silly argument. Many Muslims and Jews moved to Palestine when they were kicked out of Spain in 1492. Does that mean that neither can call Palestine home?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was PARTITIONED   in   1948   because of emnity between muslims and jews----the emnity is based on the desire of muslims to impose the filth of shariah     Sudan was partiitioned recently for the same reason       India was partitioned in  1948 for the same reason       In order to save the christians of Lebanon----it would be reasonable to partition  Lebanon       If Arabia were partitioned 1400 years ago------the christian, jewish, zoroastrian genocides there mignt not have occured       In fact    hundreds of millions of lives might have been saved if people were not subjected to genocide under the laws you advocate
> 
> are you enjoying the current ongoing blood bath?     The reason it is legal for  sunnis to massacre   shiites is the LEGAL CONCEPT OF TAKFIR    in which muslims can declare 'THE OTHER"   sect of islam to be   NOT ISLAM      at that point   -----since the "others"  are not muslims     killing them becomes legal under shariah            Have fun          it is accelerating to YOUR DELIGHT
Click to expand...


Bologna.


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, it is such a silly argument. Many Muslims and Jews moved to Palestine when they were kicked out of Spain in 1492. Does that mean that neither can call Palestine home?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was PARTITIONED   in   1948   because of emnity between muslims and jews----the emnity is based on the desire of muslims to impose the filth of shariah     Sudan was partiitioned recently for the same reason       India was partitioned in  1948 for the same reason       In order to save the christians of Lebanon----it would be reasonable to partition  Lebanon       If Arabia were partitioned 1400 years ago------the christian, jewish, zoroastrian genocides there mignt not have occured       In fact    hundreds of millions of lives might have been saved if people were not subjected to genocide under the laws you advocate
> 
> are you enjoying the current ongoing blood bath?     The reason it is legal for  sunnis to massacre   shiites is the LEGAL CONCEPT OF TAKFIR    in which muslims can declare 'THE OTHER"   sect of islam to be   NOT ISLAM      at that point   -----since the "others"  are not muslims     killing them becomes legal under shariah            Have fun          it is accelerating to YOUR DELIGHT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bologna.
Click to expand...


Islamo nazi pig    comeback #686


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was PARTITIONED   in   1948   because of emnity between muslims and jews----the emnity is based on the desire of muslims to impose the filth of shariah     Sudan was partiitioned recently for the same reason       India was partitioned in  1948 for the same reason       In order to save the christians of Lebanon----it would be reasonable to partition  Lebanon       If Arabia were partitioned 1400 years ago------the christian, jewish, zoroastrian genocides there mignt not have occured       In fact    hundreds of millions of lives might have been saved if people were not subjected to genocide under the laws you advocate
> 
> are you enjoying the current ongoing blood bath?     The reason it is legal for  sunnis to massacre   shiites is the LEGAL CONCEPT OF TAKFIR    in which muslims can declare 'THE OTHER"   sect of islam to be   NOT ISLAM      at that point   -----since the "others"  are not muslims     killing them becomes legal under shariah            Have fun          it is accelerating to YOUR DELIGHT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bologna.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islamo nazi pig    comeback #686
Click to expand...


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bologna.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamo nazi pig    comeback #686
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



what a miracle     a NEW CYBER ISLAMO NAZI come-back      it may not yet be in the handbook


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamo nazi pig    comeback #686
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> what a miracle     a NEW CYBER ISLAMO NAZI come-back      it may not yet be in the handbook
Click to expand...


iro, admit it, you've had sex with an arab.


----------



## irosie91

ima said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what a miracle     a NEW CYBER ISLAMO NAZI come-back      it may not yet be in the handbook
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> iro, admit it, you've had sex with an arab.
Click to expand...



Ima ---admit it      you have sex with one year old dog    and a five year old chicken


----------



## georgephillip

irosie91 said:


> I assume that most people who post here frequnetly are adults---and probably adults at least over the age of 40 since younger people tend to have OTHER things to do     Yet so many of the posters----eg  Ima, georgie----write the kind of  comments one expects from the not so bright kids of the neighborhood who spend their time on street corners attempting to establish their personal being thru vulgarity and crude behavior -----I attended college in a rough city----long ago-----I and my fellow students walked thru the city to the various places where the scattered school buildings were located    In those days on ELECTION DAYS and VIRTUALLY ALL PUBLIC holidays---the bars were closed ----the city drunks would be seen ---looking a big confused, the gutters and alleys near the bars     They would belch  out cynical vulgar remarks at the passing students.     Whenever I read the posts of Ima or georgie----I am reminded of my school days and those silly frustrated inebriates


I assume the only reason you're here is to throw as much hasbara at the wall as possible to see if any of it sticks? Your constant stream of racist deflection can't change one important historical fact: in 1948 CE one third of the population of Mandate Palestine inflicted a Jewish state on the majority of Palestinians by force of arms. Telling me how many Muslim crimes occurred thousands of years ago, or how many throat-slittings presently happen in Sudan doesn't change how Israel came into existence.

Hopefully, you'll be crawling back under the closest kosher rock after November 6th.


----------



## Roudy

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I assume that most people who post here frequnetly are adults---and probably adults at least over the age of 40 since younger people tend to have OTHER things to do     Yet so many of the posters----eg  Ima, georgie----write the kind of  comments one expects from the not so bright kids of the neighborhood who spend their time on street corners attempting to establish their personal being thru vulgarity and crude behavior -----I attended college in a rough city----long ago-----I and my fellow students walked thru the city to the various places where the scattered school buildings were located    In those days on ELECTION DAYS and VIRTUALLY ALL PUBLIC holidays---the bars were closed ----the city drunks would be seen ---looking a big confused, the gutters and alleys near the bars     They would belch  out cynical vulgar remarks at the passing students.     Whenever I read the posts of Ima or georgie----I am reminded of my school days and those silly frustrated inebriates
> 
> 
> 
> I assume the only reason you're here is to throw as much hasbara at the wall as possible to see if any of it sticks? Your constant stream of racist deflection can't change one important historical fact: in 1948 CE one third of the population of Mandate Palestine inflicted a Jewish state on the majority of Palestinians by force of arms. Telling me how many Muslim crimes occurred thousands of years ago, or how many throat-slittings presently happen in Sudan doesn't change how Israel came into existence.
> 
> Hopefully, you'll be crawling back under the closest kosher rock after November 6th.
Click to expand...

I assume the only reason you're here spreading this garbage and lies, is because you're an IslamoNazi worshipping Jew-hating anti-American pig.


----------



## Saigon

IRosie - 

You are being hypocritical.



> I assume that most people who post here frequnetly are adults---and probably adults at least over the age of 40 since younger people tend to have OTHER things to do Yet so many of the posters----eg Ima, georgie----write the kind of comments one expects from the not so bright kids of the neighborhood who spend their time on street corners attempting to establish their personal being thru vulgarity and crude behavior -----I attended college in a rough city----long ago-----I and my fellow students walked thru the city to the various places where the scattered school buildings were located In those days on ELECTION DAYS and VIRTUALLY ALL PUBLIC holidays---the bars were closed ----the city drunks would be seen ---looking a big confused, the gutters and alleys near the bars They would belch out cynical vulgar remarks at the passing students. Whenever I read the posts of Ima or georgie----I am reminded of my school days and those silly frustrated inebriates






> Ima ---admit it you have sex with one year old dog and a five year old chicken



If you want other posters to behave like adults - do so yourself!


----------



## ima

Saigon said:


> IRosie -
> 
> You are being hypocritical.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I assume that most people who post here frequnetly are adults---and probably adults at least over the age of 40 since younger people tend to have OTHER things to do Yet so many of the posters----eg Ima, georgie----write the kind of comments one expects from the not so bright kids of the neighborhood who spend their time on street corners attempting to establish their personal being thru vulgarity and crude behavior -----I attended college in a rough city----long ago-----I and my fellow students walked thru the city to the various places where the scattered school buildings were located In those days on ELECTION DAYS and VIRTUALLY ALL PUBLIC holidays---the bars were closed ----the city drunks would be seen ---looking a big confused, the gutters and alleys near the bars They would belch out cynical vulgar remarks at the passing students. Whenever I read the posts of Ima or georgie----I am reminded of my school days and those silly frustrated inebriates
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ima ---admit it you have sex with one year old dog and a five year old chicken
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you want other posters to behave like adults - do so yourself!
Click to expand...


Q: Why are there no Finns (Saigons) on the moon?

A: They went, but there was no wood.


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> what a miracle     a NEW CYBER ISLAMO NAZI come-back      it may not yet be in the handbook
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iro, admit it, you've had sex with an arab.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Ima ---admit it      you have sex with one year old dog    and a five year old chicken
Click to expand...


Notice how she doesn't deny it! 

iro, Saig wants you to act like an adult, this should be fun.


----------



## irosie91

ima said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> iro, admit it, you've had sex with an arab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ima ---admit it      you have sex with one year old dog    and a five year old chicken
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how she doesn't deny it!
> 
> iro, Saig wants you to act like an adult, this should be fun.
Click to expand...


some things never change----the sandbox snots of yesteryear grow up and become the sandbox snots of today


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ima ---admit it      you have sex with one year old dog    and a five year old chicken
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notice how she doesn't deny it!
> 
> iro, Saig wants you to act like an adult, this should be fun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> some things never change----the sandbox snots of yesteryear grow up and become the sandbox snots of today
Click to expand...

Oh, because calling everyone who doesn't agree with you an islamonazi pig is soooo grown up. Or were you talking about yourself as well?


----------



## Saigon

irosie91 said:


> some things never change----the sandbox snots of yesteryear grow up and become the sandbox snots of today





> Ima ---admit it you have sex with one year old dog and a five year old chicken



I think it's Rosie's self-awareness that really marks her out from other posters.


----------



## irosie91

ima said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Notice how she doesn't deny it!
> 
> iro, Saig wants you to act like an adult, this should be fun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> some things never change----the sandbox snots of yesteryear grow up and become the sandbox snots of today
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, because calling everyone who doesn't agree with you an islamonazi pig is soooo grown up. Or were you talking about yourself as well?
Click to expand...


try again chicken bugger------the only persons which I describe as islamo nazi pigs ----are islamo nazi pigs       The description has nothing to do with "agreeing"  or "disagreeing"  with me.     I never had a conversation with your hero  Josef Goebbels---but I did read some of his writings-------He neither agreed with me or disagreed with me----in fact he was dead before I was born -----but I do, correctly,  describe him and you as  islamo nazi pigs


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> some things never change----the sandbox snots of yesteryear grow up and become the sandbox snots of today
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, because calling everyone who doesn't agree with you an islamonazi pig is soooo grown up. Or were you talking about yourself as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> try again chicken bugger------the only persons which I describe as islamo nazi pigs ----are islamo nazi pigs       The description has nothing to do with "agreeing"  or "disagreeing"  with me.     I never had a conversation with your hero  Josef Goebbels---but I did read some of his writings-------He neither agreed with me or disagreed with me----in fact he was dead before I was born -----but I do, correctly,  describe him and you as  islamo nazi pigs
Click to expand...


How grown up for an 80 year old. 

You agree that you should be alive, Goebbels thought ALL Jews should be dead. So no, he didn't agree with you. Please try again.


----------



## irosie91

ima said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, because calling everyone who doesn't agree with you an islamonazi pig is soooo grown up. Or were you talking about yourself as well?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> try again chicken bugger------the only persons which I describe as islamo nazi pigs ----are islamo nazi pigs       The description has nothing to do with "agreeing"  or "disagreeing"  with me.     I never had a conversation with your hero  Josef Goebbels---but I did read some of his writings-------He neither agreed with me or disagreed with me----in fact he was dead before I was born -----but I do, correctly,  describe him and you as  islamo nazi pigs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How grown up for an 80 year old.
> 
> You agree that you should be alive, Goebbels thought ALL Jews should be dead. So no, he didn't agree with you. Please try again.
Click to expand...



It is true that I do not believe that all jews should be dead-----and I do believe that josef goebbels was a nazi pig and you do not    ----however you made the incorrect claim that I refer to all people who disagree with me as  "islamo nazi"    That claim is not true.   I have discussions with many people who disagree with me on many points and do not consider them all to be islamo nazi pigs as are you and as was josef goebbels     I do not like to eat chocolate ice cream      It does not taste good to me-----but one of my brothers loves it     I do not call him an islamo nazi pig for disagreeing with me about chocolate ice cream


----------



## georgephillip

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I assume that most people who post here frequnetly are adults---and probably adults at least over the age of 40 since younger people tend to have OTHER things to do     Yet so many of the posters----eg  Ima, georgie----write the kind of  comments one expects from the not so bright kids of the neighborhood who spend their time on street corners attempting to establish their personal being thru vulgarity and crude behavior -----I attended college in a rough city----long ago-----I and my fellow students walked thru the city to the various places where the scattered school buildings were located    In those days on ELECTION DAYS and VIRTUALLY ALL PUBLIC holidays---the bars were closed ----the city drunks would be seen ---looking a big confused, the gutters and alleys near the bars     They would belch  out cynical vulgar remarks at the passing students.     Whenever I read the posts of Ima or georgie----I am reminded of my school days and those silly frustrated inebriates
> 
> 
> 
> I assume the only reason you're here is to throw as much hasbara at the wall as possible to see if any of it sticks? Your constant stream of racist deflection can't change one important historical fact: in 1948 CE one third of the population of Mandate Palestine inflicted a Jewish state on the majority of Palestinians by force of arms. Telling me how many Muslim crimes occurred thousands of years ago, or how many throat-slittings presently happen in Sudan doesn't change how Israel came into existence.
> 
> Hopefully, you'll be crawling back under the closest kosher rock after November 6th.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I assume the only reason you're here spreading this garbage and lies, is because you're an IslamoNazi worshipping Jew-hating anti-American pig.
Click to expand...

*Which flag do you flap?*


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> try again chicken bugger------the only persons which I describe as islamo nazi pigs ----are islamo nazi pigs       The description has nothing to do with "agreeing"  or "disagreeing"  with me.     I never had a conversation with your hero  Josef Goebbels---but I did read some of his writings-------He neither agreed with me or disagreed with me----in fact he was dead before I was born -----but I do, correctly,  describe him and you as  islamo nazi pigs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How grown up for an 80 year old.
> 
> You agree that you should be alive, Goebbels thought ALL Jews should be dead. So no, he didn't agree with you. Please try again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is true that I do not believe that all jews should be dead-----and I do believe that josef goebbels was a nazi pig and you do not    ----however you made the incorrect claim that I refer to all people who disagree with me as  "islamo nazi"    That claim is not true.   I have discussions with many people who disagree with me on many points and do not consider them all to be islamo nazi pigs as are you and as was josef goebbels     I do not like to eat chocolate ice cream      It does not taste good to me-----but one of my brothers loves it     I do not call him an islamo nazi pig for disagreeing with me about chocolate ice cream
Click to expand...

But ice cream is irrelevant of course. Anyone who disagrees with you ON ISRAEL OR JEWS IN GENERAL in an islamo nazi pig. How grown up for an 80 year old.


----------



## irosie91

ima said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> How grown up for an 80 year old.
> 
> You agree that you should be alive, Goebbels thought ALL Jews should be dead. So no, he didn't agree with you. Please try again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is true that I do not believe that all jews should be dead-----and I do believe that josef goebbels was a nazi pig and you do not    ----however you made the incorrect claim that I refer to all people who disagree with me as  "islamo nazi"    That claim is not true.   I have discussions with many people who disagree with me on many points and do not consider them all to be islamo nazi pigs as are you and as was josef goebbels     I do not like to eat chocolate ice cream      It does not taste good to me-----but one of my brothers loves it     I do not call him an islamo nazi pig for disagreeing with me about chocolate ice cream
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> But ice cream is irrelevant of course. Anyone who disagrees with you ON ISRAEL OR JEWS IN GENERAL in an islamo nazi pig. How grown up for an 80 year old.
Click to expand...




Ima is doing the islamo nazi thing----she is back pedaling on her original assertion in which she comically claimed that I refer to anyone who disagrees with me as  "ISLAMO NAZI PIG"    and she is doing that vulgar from the gutter thing of mocking  old age       You can take an islamo pig out of the muck---but you can take the muck out of islamo nazi pig


----------



## irosie91

Ima    I know nothing about your background-----but I have worked in the midst of life and death involving persons of all backgrounds since I was a teenager    ------There is nothing like a busy hospital emergency room thru the nite to  OBSERVE  the behavior of ----people.     I have observed that the lowest of the low-----the dregs of mankind invariable  "joke"    (not particularly humorous "jokes"     more like vulgar mocking)  about sickness, incontinence   and  old age and persons debilitated            your posts indicate a person who if not a resident of the gutter------logically should be left in some deserted filthy gutter.     I would not be surprised if you are digging up your grandfather right now because there is a rumour that he was buried still wearing his wedding ring


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> Ima    I know nothing about your background-----but I have worked in the midst of life and death involving persons of all backgrounds since I was a teenager    ------There is nothing like a busy hospital emergency room thru the nite to  OBSERVE  the behavior of ----people.     I have observed that the lowest of the low-----the dregs of mankind invariable  "joke"    (not particularly humorous "jokes"     more like vulgar mocking)  about sickness, incontinence   and  old age and persons debilitated            your posts indicate a person who if not a resident of the gutter------logically should be left in some deserted filthy gutter.     I would not be surprised if you are digging up your grandfather right now because there is a rumour that *he was buried still wearing his wedding ring*



No, I took it just before they closed the coffin. His gold tooth also. And he used to have a "lucky $20" in his pocket, but I took that too. So you'll have to pay your own way on the date.


----------

