# Education is actually indoctrination



## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Public schooling is not here to learn and educate childeren, but to
make childrend dumb, conformists, a- creative , stupid and what have you,

It is here to indoctrinate children with bollocks and shite.



> I have never let my schooling interfere with my education. -_Mark Twain_


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## ScienceRocks (Feb 11, 2016)

Says the person that probably should join the isis and would be greeted by all of them for his anti-science, anti-knowledge and anti-civilization crap.


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Matthew said:


> Says the person that probably should join the isis and would be greeted by all of them for his anti-science, anti-knowledge and anti-civilization crap.



Just and Ad Hominem, Matthew. How about some good solid arguments.

I guess you know an Ad Hominem to be one of the weakest responses, 

do you?


It feels you are angry, is this so, Matthew?


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## ScienceRocks (Feb 11, 2016)

Yes, lets go live in caves and worship our trillionaire overlords!!!!

Education, government regs, anti-trust laws and unions built 90% of all the wealth you see in the middle class. Less education = no middle class and believe me only the barons will enjoy the wealth.


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Matthew said:


> Yes, lets go live in caves and worship our trillionaire overlords!!!!
> 
> Education, government regs, anti-trust laws and unions built 90% of all the wealth you see in the middle class. Less education = no middle class and believe me only the barons will enjoy the wealth.



haven't you noticed that the Middle Class is rapidly disappearing, mate?
And all that, by cold calculated design.

And i am all for education, but not for indoctrination, caprice?


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## Grandma (Feb 11, 2016)

Caprice?

You're anti-education, all right

It's capisce.


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Grandma said:


> Caprice?
> 
> You're anti-education, all right
> 
> It's capisce.



It is italian.

No I am not against education at all!

Why didn't you read my postings?


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## Rouge Rover (Feb 11, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> Public schooling is not here to learn and educate childeren, but to
> make childrend dumb, conformists, a- creative , stupid and what have you,
> 
> It is here to indoctrinate children with bollocks and shite.
> ...



Where did you go to school?


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Rouge Rover said:


> ObligationLaunch said:
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> > Public schooling is not here to learn and educate childeren, but to
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An Ad Hominem again!

Ah well, I studied physics and math at university level.................alas.


Now, are you able to stay on topic?


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## Rouge Rover (Feb 11, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


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No, I think I'm going to stick with the you're a nutjob angle.


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## Rouge Rover (Feb 11, 2016)

By the way, I asked you where you went to school because American education is the only education system I'm familiar with. Your use of 'bollocks' and 'shite' lead me to believe you did not attend public school in America so we would be talking about two different education systems.


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Rouge Rover said:


> No, I think I'm going to stick with the you're a nutjob angle.



Are Ad Hominem's the only things you do around here? Looks like it.


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Rouge Rover said:


> By the way, I asked you where you went to school because American education is the only education system I'm familiar with. Your use of 'bollocks' and 'shite' lead me to believe you did not attend public school in America so we would be talking about two different education systems.



Nope,It is the same everywehere.


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## Rouge Rover (Feb 11, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> Rouge Rover said:
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It looks like it to you because I'm doing it to you. Post something intelligent and I'll have no choice but to take you seriously.


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Rouge Rover said:


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Hmmm So you don't even know what an Ad Hominem is?

Answer me this if you can. Why is what I write not serious, well,

according to you, at least?


and btw I am not really interested if you take me serious or not. Why should I even care?


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## Rouge Rover (Feb 11, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> Rouge Rover said:
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> > By the way, I asked you where you went to school because American education is the only education system I'm familiar with. Your use of 'bollocks' and 'shite' lead me to believe you did not attend public school in America so we would be talking about two different education systems.
> ...



It's not the same everywhere. This is what I was referring to in my last post about intelligence. Public school in most of Europe isn't like American public school from what I've read so saying it's all the same just to justify your rant deserves an ad hom.


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## Rouge Rover (Feb 11, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


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I don't care if you care or not. You keep responding though so what does that tell us?


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Rouge Rover said:


> It's not the same everywhere. This is what I was referring to in my last post about intelligence. Public school in most of Europe isn't like American public school from what I've read so saying it's all the same just to justify your rant deserves an ad hom.



Well. there are of course small cultural differences but the teachings are

at it's core the same.

But there is indeed one things the stupid american teachers do and that is
a very destructive way of teaching and it is called "common core"

That maked indoctrination even worse then it was!


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Rouge Rover said:


> [
> I don't care if you care or not. You keep responding though so what does that tell us?



??


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## Rouge Rover (Feb 11, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> Rouge Rover said:
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> > It's not the same everywhere. This is what I was referring to in my last post about intelligence. Public school in most of Europe isn't like American public school from what I've read so saying it's all the same just to justify your rant deserves an ad hom.
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Why do you think this? Common Core is pretty limited and isn't mandatory. I have more of a problem with too strong a focus on STEM subjects. Too many people today think public school is just for preparing a student for the workforce and the liberal arts focus just isn't there like it used to be in some districts.


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Rouge Rover said:


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Duh? Have yu even looked at Common Core?



> Too many people today think public school is just for preparing a student for the workforce and the liberal arts focus just isn't there like it used to be in some districts



Of course it is! It is nothing more to prepare a child for slavery for the rest of his or her life.That is exactly what  public schools are designed for!


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## Rouge Rover (Feb 11, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


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Your wording leads me to believe you don't know how Common Core works. I am aware of the way my state intends the standards be met.

Teaching to the workforce is actually pretty new here, last 15-20 years or so, even more recent in some states.


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Rouge Rover said:


> Teaching to the workforce is actually pretty new here, last 15-20 years or so, even more recent in some states.




What do you exactly mean with this?


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## Rouge Rover (Feb 11, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> Rouge Rover said:
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> > Teaching to the workforce is actually pretty new here, last 15-20 years or so, even more recent in some states.
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STEM is the big thing now. Some schools don't even teach art or music anymore. Physical education is not what it used to be. My school is talking about making sports pay to play. The liberal arts focus is disappearing in some places. 

Some states are really messed up. I'm in Michigan right now, I don't live or work here but I'll use it as an example. Michigan actually left the decision making process for adoption of common core standards to corporations. That's what I'm talking about, the public/private partnership in education is relatively new. It wasn't always this way.


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Rouge Rover said:


> That's what I'm talking about, the public/private partnership in education is relatively new. It wasn't always this way.



Actually, yes, it was always this way, but now, i is coming to the surface

And what to think about the more then ridicul;ous sex 'education' in schools?

All by deasign to destroy the child's brain!


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## Rouge Rover (Feb 11, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> Rouge Rover said:
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This is why I suggested you stick to your own country on this discussion. you're obviously not familiar with American public education or its history.

You never got around to saying where you went to school. England?


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Rouge Rover said:


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> This is why I suggested you stick to your own country on this discussion. you're obviously not familiar with American public education or its history.
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> You never got around to saying where you went to school. England?



No, as I said it is at it's core anywhere the same so it doesn't matter where
I went to school.

e.g. relativity bollocks is the same everywhere.


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

btw parents, *ESPECIALLY IN AMERICA * Have to watch this movie.

Very scary!









Race to Nowhere: The Film, The Movement


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Btw in Finland children have nearly NO EXAMINATIONS or TESTS and

they are the best educated children in the world!

Now, there is something to ponder, right?


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## Rouge Rover (Feb 11, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> Btw in Finland children have nearly NO EXAMINATIONS or TESTS and
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> they are the best educated children in the world!
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> Now, there is something to ponder, right?



Yes, it does. I'm wondering why you mentioned this right after saying things are the same everywhere. Schools in the UK must really suck.


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## dblack (Feb 11, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


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You'll find mostly diversion as a response to these kinds of issues. Some things just hit too close to home.


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## Agit8r (Feb 11, 2016)

"Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves therefore are its only safe depositories. And to render even them safe their minds must be improved to a certain degree."
-- *Thomas Jefferson*, from 'Notes on the State of Virginia' Query 14


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## dblack (Feb 11, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> Public schooling is not here to learn and educate childeren, but to
> make childrend dumb, conformists, a- creative , stupid and what have you,
> 
> It is here to indoctrinate children with bollocks and shite.
> ...



The primary function of public schooling is to fuel the war machine, to maintain a reliable supply of compliant workers and obedient soldiers.


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## midcan5 (Feb 11, 2016)

The same people who claim education is indoctrination are the same people who want to home school and / or defund public education. School offers a diversity of points of view and liberal arts along with social science offer viewpoints that challenge conformity. But but this is America and education must create workers not thinkers, athletics not philosophers. Every time I return to online discussions I feel like Yogi Berra, deja vu all over....

'William Deresiewicz's 'Excellent Sheep: *The Miseducation of the American Elite and the Way to a Meaningful Life'*
The Liberal Arts vs. Neoliberalism | Commonweal Magazine

'Key & Peele *Imagines What It’d Be Like if We Obsessed Over Teachers the Way We Do Athletes'*
Key & Peele Imagines What It’d Be Like if We Obsessed Over Teachers the Way We Do Athletes

"Thirty years ago, 10 percent of California’s general revenue fund went to higher education and 3 percent to prisons. Today nearly 11 percent goes to prisons and 8 percent to higher education."  Friedman/Mandelbaum in 'That Used To Be Us'

'The U.S. Is Letting Poor Kids Fall Further and Further Behind in Reading'
The U.S. Is Letting Poor Kids Fall Further and Further Behind in Reading

"The Nordic countries maintain their dynamism despite high taxation in several ways. Most important, they spend lavishly on research and development and higher education. All of them, but especially Sweden and Finland, have taken to the sweeping revolution in information and communications technology and leveraged it to gain global competitiveness. Sweden now spends nearly 4 percent of GDP on R&D, the highest ratio in the world today. On average, the Nordic nations spend 3 percent of GDP on R&D, compared with around 2 percent in the English-speaking nations." Jeffrey D. Sachs  The Social Welfare State, beyond Ideology


*"Consider how effectively America's future citizens are trained not to judge for themselves about anything.* From the first grade to the twelfth, from one coast to the other, instruction in America's classrooms is almost entirely dogmatic. Answers are "right" and answers are "wrong," but mostly answers are short. "At all levels, [teacher-made] tests called almost exclusively for short answers and recall of information," reports Goodlad. In more than 1,000 classrooms visited by his researchers, "only rarely" was there "evidence to suggest instruction likely to go much beyond mere possession of information to a level of understanding its implications." Goodlad goes on to note that "the intellectual terrain is laid out by the teacher. The paths for walking through it are largely predetermined by the teacher." The give-and-take of genuine discussion is conspicuously absent. "Not even 1%" of instructional time, he found, was devoted to discussions that "required some kind of open response involving reasoning or perhaps an opinion from students.... The extraordinary degree of student passivity stands out."    Why Johnny Can't Think


PoliticalChic's Review of "Waiting for Superman"
Education Then and Now
Education Then and Now
Conservatives Battle Liberals In The Classroom

.


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Rouge Rover said:


> ObligationLaunch said:
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> > Btw in Finland children have nearly NO EXAMINATIONS or TESTS and
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Well, Finland is indeed an exception, you are right there.

UK must suck? Why UK? they suck, nealy, everywhere.


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

midcan5 said:


> The same people who claim education is indoctrination are the same people who want to home school and / or defund public education. School offers a diversity of points of view and liberal arts along with social science offer viewpoints that challenge conformity. But but this is America and education must create workers not thinkers, athletics not philosophers. Every time I return to online discussions I feel like Yogi Berra, deja vu all over....
> 
> 'William Deresiewicz's 'Excellent Sheep: *The Miseducation of the American Elite and the Way to a Meaningful Life'*
> The Liberal Arts vs. Neoliberalism | Commonweal Magazine
> ...



very good!


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## Disir (Feb 11, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> Public schooling is not here to learn and educate childeren, but to
> make childrend dumb, conformists, a- creative , stupid and what have you,
> 
> It is here to indoctrinate children with bollocks and shite.
> ...



Proof?


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

There are even valedictorians speaking against the 'education' system!


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Disir said:


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What would you consider proof? A teacher for 25 years in new york who found this out? or what?


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## Rouge Rover (Feb 11, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


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I don't think you'll find a smoking gun but giving examples which led you to your opinion would be nice.


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## Disir (Feb 11, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


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What evidence do you have?  You start learning this in the second grade.


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Rouge Rover said:


> I don't think you'll find a smoking gun but giving examples which led you to your opinion would be nice.





> I don't hink you'll find a smoking gun



Really?


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Disir said:


> What evidence do you have?  You start learning this in the second grade.



What do you mean by 'this"?


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## Rouge Rover (Feb 11, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


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You found two people who agree with you. I'm sure you can find many more. You still haven't given any examples, give a couple from when you were in school.


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## Disir (Feb 11, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


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You start learning what constitutes evidence in the second grade. What evidence do you have?


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Disir said:


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lots,

But you can start with the classical book of Jiohn Taylor Gato:






Makes it very very clear!


Besides , nearly everything you learn at school is wrong or at least very skewed!

The are mostly lies! Now, why do you want to learn lies to your kids?


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Disir said:


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> You start learning what constitutes evidence in the second grade. What evidence do you have?



This is a cop out of course, What do YOU consider evidence, apart from your schooling?


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## Disir (Feb 11, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


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No. This is you opining.  Either back up your arguments or get off your mom's computer and get ready for school.


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## Agit8r (Feb 11, 2016)

I have found the smoking gun you are looking for! See now?


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Disir said:


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ok, so you can't. That is for sure. And of course an Ad Hominem, Yawn.


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Agit8r said:


> I have found the smoking gun you are looking for! See now?



It is indeed a part of the puzzle, yes!


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## Disir (Feb 11, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


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You got nothing?  I'm shocked. SHOCKED!  

Off to ignore land you go.


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 11, 2016)

Disir said:


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wow, you just JUMP to your conclusions!

And can't even explain what evidence is?

Schooled? LOL


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## regent (Feb 11, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> Public schooling is not here to learn and educate childeren, but to
> make childrend dumb, conformists, a- creative , stupid and what have you,
> 
> It is here to indoctrinate children with bollocks and shite.
> ...


So that's why I had to say the pledge of allegiance every school morning.


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## baileyn45 (Feb 11, 2016)

Rouge Rover said:


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I'd have to disagree about the focus on stem being the problem. I went to high school in the late 70s and took what would now be a very heavy stem type curriculum. I had time for art(no music, I have no talent), and played sports year around. From parents I speak to today the waste in their opinion is the over burden of "social" indoctrination. As I've heard parents say more than once, kids can tell you all about billies 2 mommies and anal sex but they can't read. Flippant I know but makes the point. Now I don't have a problem with billies 2 mommies but it shouldn't be the schools job. Teach them critical thinking skills let them make up their own minds. 

I often hear it's worse at the university level. I recently watched a video where a prof was talking about a colleague who was required to incorporate social justice into her lecture on tuberous root vegetables. Youtube is full of videos of college students
that could not find texas on a map or tell you the date of the end of the civil war with 100 years, but they can tell you why saying God bless you when some one sneezes is a "micrro-agression. And the worst part is they speak of these social ideas with the same absolute certainty that a scientist would describing water evaporating. Teaching critical thinking skills is a thing of the past.


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## Rouge Rover (Feb 11, 2016)

baileyn45 said:


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Whenever I see someone complaining about schools the social indoctrination angle is always mentioned. All I ask someone who posts an OP about that is that they give examples. 

I agree with you that there are problems in the schools but I think the reason we have problems in the schools is because too many parents are content to spout out vague generalities but aren't willing to do what's needed to fix the problems.


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## dblack (Feb 11, 2016)

Rouge Rover said:


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When we reflect on what "indoctrination" means, I'm not sure why anyone would dispute that that is at least _one of the purposes,_ if not the overriding goal, of public education. It usually becomes obvious whenever anyone tries to justify a public education. Nearly every reason they cite has to do with ensuring that our children grow up to be citizens with common set of core values. 

I don't mind listing the various ways public schools indoctrinate students, but it will need to be later today. In the mean time, in return, I'll challenge anyone who supports public education to justify it without advocating indoctrination. I don't see how you can.


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## Rouge Rover (Feb 11, 2016)

dblack said:


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Indoctrination is a conversation we can have. The OP's accusations on the other hand need some fleshing out.


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## regent (Feb 11, 2016)

Yep, schools do indoctrinate as do traffic signals, the military, hospitals, churches, airports, department stores and most of our institutions. Think of the chaos if institutions did not indoctrinate.


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## initforme (Feb 11, 2016)

The indoctrination rhetoric comes out of the GOP playbook.  They don't like public education because they would love to get rid of it so they DONT have to pay for it.  Just like whining about taxes.  They hate govt services until they need it. Hypocrites.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 11, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> Rouge Rover said:
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A way of teaching is called curriculum.  What you teach is called standards.  Common Core is a set of standards.


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 12, 2016)

regent said:


> Yep, schools do indoctrinate as do traffic signals, the military, hospitals, churches, airports, department stores and most of our institutions. Think of the chaos if institutions did not indoctrinate.




wow you fell for it!


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 12, 2016)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> A way of teaching is called curriculum.  What you teach is called standards.  Common Core is a set of standards.



Nope, it is an EXTREMELY STUPID set of standards


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 12, 2016)

Children very simple, learn better and faster without official schooling!

A child is born a genius and then schooling is here to make him or her dumn, stupid, a creative, conforming and what have you.


WHY ARE WE DOING THIS TO OUR CHILDEREN?

They deserve better!


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## ScienceRocks (Feb 12, 2016)

Education has made more global wealth by a factor of a few trillion then all the worshiping of your god has ever imagine of doing.


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 12, 2016)

Matthew said:


> Education has made more global wealth by a factor of a few trillion then all the worshiping of your god has ever imagine of doing.



See, you are INDOCTRINATED

There is *NO WEALTH* because the whole economy is debt-based!
(Well, of course there is a bit but very liitle real wealth when we are talking money.)

You probably have never learned this at your 'education'? 

It is awhole topic by itself.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 12, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


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Really?  Which one is stupid?

I'll bet you can't possibly name one and tell me why you think it is stupid, simply because you have no idea what they are.


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 12, 2016)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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Just type in "Common Core' in Youtube. It is available for everyone!

Never heard of the internet, mate?

lol


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 12, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


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Suck it up laughing boy!

You just can't answer the damn question!

This was a test, and you failed big time!

Want a retake?


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## koshergrl (Feb 12, 2016)

Our education problem is the same as our government problem..in that the GOVERNMENT is determining the EDUCATION that our children receive.

Which is why they are taught to believe that government controls them, that they answer only to the government, that anything any official tells them is the truth, and that their rights come from government. It works. We need to take back our children's education from the government.


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## Unkotare (Feb 12, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


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Answer his question.


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 12, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> Answer his question.



Trying to order now? You are hilarious!


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## Unkotare (Feb 12, 2016)

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Chicken shit.


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## regent (Feb 12, 2016)

koshergrl said:


> Our education problem is the same as our government problem..in that the GOVERNMENT is determining the EDUCATION that our children receive.
> 
> Which is why they are taught to believe that government controls them, that they answer only to the government, that anything any official tells them is the truth, and that their rights come from government. It works. We need to take back our children's education from the government.


_It should be "governments" because so many governments are involved in education, but the primary responsibility is given to the states for education. The states then turn some of that responsibility over to the 13,000 plus, school districts. _


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## rdean (Feb 12, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> Matthew said:
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Right wingers drop out of school all the time and they are some of the most ignorant people on earth.  They believe science is a faith, evolution a lie and climate change a conspiracy.  They believe the earth is thousands of years old and vaccines cause autism.  They think "trickle down" makes sense.  And they commit suicide at an astounding rate.

Now that we have the facts out of the way, give us some arguments that bolster the idea that ignorance is a "good" thing.


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## dblack (Feb 12, 2016)

rdean said:


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Funny that. Both my kids dropped out of school. And they're two of the smartest, most accomplished people I know. Way more than me.

Unlike them, I have a high school diploma.


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## koshergrl (Feb 12, 2016)

regent said:


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Its al the same govt.


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## regent (Feb 12, 2016)

koshergrl said:


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> > koshergrl said:
> ...


Do you think the government that operates the Beverly Hills School District is the same government that operates the school district in Gary Indiana, if so I would suggest you do your homework.


----------



## ObligationLaunch (Feb 13, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> Chicken shit.



wow, you are now sshowing some intelligence! 


lol


----------



## ObligationLaunch (Feb 13, 2016)

rdean said:


> Right wingers drop out of school all the time and they are some of the most ignorant people on earth.



I am no rightwinger, or left one for that matter at all!



> They believe science is a faith,



But it is! All provable mate, You have been duped! see quotes at the end of this posting.



> evolution a lie



macro evolution is!



> and climate change a conspiracy.



of course it is! Climategate anyone?



> They believe the earth is thousands of years old



Well, it isn't billions!



> and vaccines cause autism.



But they do!



> They think "trickle down" makes sense.



what do you mean?



> And they commit suicide at an astounding rate.



duh?



> Now that we have the facts out of the way, give us some arguments



facts? What about this FACT:









> that bolster the idea that ignorance is a "good" thing.



who does and please prove this first!





I will repeat for your sake:


----------



## PK1 (Feb 13, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> Public schooling is not here to learn and educate childeren, but to
> make childrend dumb, conformists, a- creative , stupid and what have you,
> 
> It is here to indoctrinate children with bollocks and shite.
> ...


---
Why did you title your thread
"*Education is actually indoctrination*" 
when you meant ...
"*Schooling is indoctrination*"?
.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Feb 13, 2016)

Religion is indoctrination...Education if done right is the opposite as it opens up your mind to the world.


----------



## PK1 (Feb 13, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


>


---
The guy in the pic looks like a conformist (traditional tie), something Mencken is speaking against.
.


----------



## PK1 (Feb 13, 2016)

koshergrl said:


> Our education problem is the same as our government problem..in that the GOVERNMENT is determining the EDUCATION that our children receive.
> 
> Which is why they are taught to believe that government controls them, that they answer only to the government, that anything any official tells them is the truth, and that their rights come from government. It works. We need to take back our children's education from the government.


----
Is big GOV also not protecting us from those nasty enemies (ISIS, AQ, etc) who want to destroy us?
You sound like a conspiracy advocate.
.


----------



## regent (Feb 13, 2016)

Education in the United States is one set of governments that people have some local control. Fifty states, fifty boards of education, and in those fifty states over 13000 local school districts boards of education. So here, Americans can assert some government authority but all they do is complain about education and how it's governed in their states and in their local districts. Maybe local control is a concept that is passed, and the federal government should take complete  control of education?


----------



## Unkotare (Feb 14, 2016)

The Red Guard rejected your application again?


----------



## ObligationLaunch (Feb 14, 2016)

regent said:


> Education in the United States is one set of governments that people have some local control. Fifty states, fifty boards of education, and in those fifty states over 13000 local school districts boards of education. So here, Americans can assert some government authority but all they do is complain about education and how it's governed in their states and in their local districts. Maybe local control is a concept that is passed, and the federal government should take complete  control of education?



They already do.

we have to stop with public schooling

It DESTROYS the children's mind and live!

Just look around you ( and here) People are dumbed down and closed minded. They are cluelees. And all this by coldly calculated design.


----------



## Unkotare (Feb 14, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> ...
> 
> we [sic] have to stop with public schooling [sic]
> 
> ...





I wonder who's sock this troll really is.


----------



## ObligationLaunch (Feb 14, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ObligationLaunch said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...




are you only capable of Ad Hominem's girly?


----------



## PK1 (Feb 14, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > Education in the United States is one set of governments that people have some local control. Fifty states, fifty boards of education, and in those fifty states over 13000 local school districts boards of education. So here, Americans can assert some government authority but all they do is complain about education and how it's governed in their states and in their local districts. Maybe local control is a concept that is passed, and the federal government should take complete  control of education?
> ...


---
You sound like a conspiracy theorist too.
You used a mile-wide brush in dismissing the value of public schooling/education.

*Public* "schooling" is valuable (with good teachers) to teach *ALL* students the basic 3 R's, regardless of parent's educational background & economic status.
Yes, schooling should be supplemented with "education" beyond the critical basics ... toward relatively advanced STEM subjects & various science fields with *critical thinking* focus, incl intro to philosophy.
With the basic intellectual tools, students in PUBLIC schools will be able to *learn how to learn *new skills when needed.

Of course, the challenge is how to teach large classrooms of students with limited resources.
*With proper oversight*, spending more money on public education would be a good investment for the public.
With additional funding, school systems could reduce class size & provide more support to *individual* students.
,


----------



## ObligationLaunch (Feb 14, 2016)

PK1 said:


> You sound like a conspiracy theorist too.
> You used a mile-wide brush in dismissing the value of public schooling/education.



value? there is really none!



> *Public* "schooling" is valuable (with good teachers) to teach *ALL* students the basic 3 R's, regardless of parent's educational background & economic status.
> Yes, schooling should be supplemented with "education" beyond the critical basics ... toward relatively advanced STEM subjects & various science fields with *critical thinking* focus, incl intro to philosophy.
> With the basic intellectual tools, students in PUBLIC schools will be able to *learn how to learn *new skills when needed.



There is absolutely NO NEED for public schooling at all!
Children lear faster, better etc without any public schooling!
Bsides that, what is learned at public schools are mosty lies.
Hence the indoctrination.
Math is wrong, physics is wrong, Common Core is wrong, evolution is wrong, and on and on the list goes. why put a child through these lies
and rape his or her mind?



> Of course, the challenge is how to teach large classrooms of students with limited resources.
> *With proper oversight*, spending more money on public education would be a good investment for the public.
> With additional funding, school systems could reduce class size & provide more support to *individual* students.



Why? So they can learn more lies? Learn to conform?Be dumbed down? Come on now. It is ridiculous.
And why the hell put your kid in front of a man or woman you don't even know? Think about that.
Children are made crazy by school and by design.
Are you a teacher or what?


----------



## Unkotare (Feb 14, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> ...
> Children lear [sic] faster, better etc without any public schooling!
> Bsides [sic] that, what is learned at public schools are [sic] mosty [sic] lies.
> Hence the indoctrination.
> ...




Do you know what irony is, you illiterate troll?


----------



## PK1 (Feb 14, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> > *Public* "schooling" is valuable (with good teachers) to teach *ALL* students the basic 3 R's, regardless of parent's educational background & economic status.
> ...


---
Learn what lies?
Learning how to read, write, and apply some basic math?
What's wrong with *ALL* kids learning those basic skills (including the poor ones from dysfunctional families)?

In my experience, very few children are "made crazy" in public schools.
I myself have been thru public school systems and I'm sure that I am smarter than you!
And no, i am not a teacher.
.


----------



## initforme (Feb 14, 2016)

Wow what some folks believe is scary.  Without my kids excellent public education they wouldn't be making 6 figures and doing well.  Some of you rabid anti education folk are whackos.


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## ObligationLaunch (Feb 15, 2016)

PK1 said:


> Learn what lies?



I have written them before. evolution, physics, math etc.




> Learning how to read, write, and apply some basic math?



I am all for that, but we don't need schools for that at all.
Just look at home-schooling! I am all for education and not indoctrination.




> What's wrong with *ALL* kids learning those basic skills (including the poor ones from dysfunctional families)?



NOTHING! Where did I wrote that? Once again, I am for education,
not for indoctrination.

You are confusing that public schools are here for learning basic skills.
They are here to indoctrinate, dumb down etc.




> In my experience, very few children are "made crazy" in public schools.



They believe in a lot of crap, can't think, aren't creative and so on and so forth.



> I myself have been thru public school systems and I'm sure that I am smarter than you!



Maybe you are, maybe you are not. Who cares? I  for sure don't care about that!



> And no, i am not a teacher.



What a relief!


----------



## Unkotare (Feb 15, 2016)

And the troll keeps trolling...


----------



## Muhammed (Feb 15, 2016)

Matthew said:


> Says the person that probably should join the isis and would be greeted by all of them for his anti-science, anti-knowledge and anti-civilization crap.



You are the biggest anti-science activist at this site.


----------



## ObligationLaunch (Feb 15, 2016)

Muhammed said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > Says the person that probably should join the isis and would be greeted by all of them for his anti-science, anti-knowledge and anti-civilization crap.
> ...



Really?

Why is that?


----------



## psikeyhackr (Feb 15, 2016)

Every so called culture must brainwash children into conforming to the culture.

That is why a good national recommended reading list could be useful.  But probably more than one would be needed.  A good list could eliminate half the teachers I ever had.  LOL

Has calculus changed since 1914?

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3328...n_id=947dc3ef529d15e8c4e79dddaa994cafa5bac2e6

Einstein came up with Relativity in 1905.

psik


----------



## Unkotare (Feb 15, 2016)

Broken record is still broken.


----------



## PK1 (Feb 15, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> > Learn what lies?
> ...


---
You appear to be anti-STEM or anti-science, and/or you show little interest in those subjects.

You don't realize that science includes lots of natural facts based on *evidence*. Science also investigates causal links via statistical probabilities and can replicate hypotheses to reduce error.
You also appear to completely misunderstand scientific theories that propose explanations beyond accumulated evidence, like specific theories of early bio evolution or a big bang in physical cosmology.
In science, *thinking for yourself* & *questioning authority* is not only accepted, but valued!

What do you believe are not lies?
  Religious dogma?
Who are better for educating our kids than trained teachers?
  Uneducated parents ?
.


----------



## ObligationLaunch (Feb 15, 2016)

PK1 said:


> ObligationLaunch said:
> 
> 
> > PK1 said:
> ...




you don't get it  at all

The teachers don't educate, they indoctrinate.

Not that they are aware of that, they are brainwashed too.


I am not anti-science at all! I am all for it. But at the moment they are all LIES

And I am against LIES, aren't you?

what is your problem with that?


----------



## Unkotare (Feb 15, 2016)

Troll ^^^^^^


----------



## ObligationLaunch (Feb 15, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> Troll ^^^^^^



It really looks you on't like what I write.

That is ok, you have that right.

But do you call anyone that disagrees with you a troll?

Cause that is the only thing you seem to be good at.


----------



## Unkotare (Feb 15, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> ...
> 
> But do you call anyone that disagrees with you a troll?....




I call a troll a troll, troll.


----------



## ObligationLaunch (Feb 15, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ObligationLaunch said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



lol

As usual you repeat yourself, without any arguments I must say.

That makes you funny, verry funny indeed.


----------



## Unkotare (Feb 15, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > ObligationLaunch said:
> ...





"Arguments" like gravity doesn't exist, or the moon was made by Walmart, you fucking loon?


----------



## PK1 (Feb 15, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> > ObligationLaunch said:
> ...


---
Please give me a SPECIFIC example where a teacher tells lies.
What do you believe are not lies?

You did not answer these Q's:
Who are better for educating our kids than trained teachers?
Uneducated parents?
.


----------



## ObligationLaunch (Feb 15, 2016)

PK1 said:


> Please give me a SPECIFIC example where a teacher tells lies.
> What do you believe are not lies?
> 
> You did not answer these Q's:
> ...



I DID answer: evolution, physics etc etc.

I really think uneducated parents are better then trained teachres, yes!

You don't seem to understand that trained teachers are here to dumb the children down.

provable so.

So, uneducated parents are much better!

They don't rape the children's mind!


----------



## Skull Pilot (Feb 15, 2016)

Matthew said:


> Says the person that probably should join the isis and would be greeted by all of them for his anti-science, anti-knowledge and anti-civilization crap.


yes he should watch the ISIS on the you tube and on follow the ISIS on the Twitter too


----------



## initforme (Feb 15, 2016)

Uneducated parents have dumb kids.  Dumb kids work for low wages.  Then they end up living in squaler.  Definitely a troll thread.


----------



## ObligationLaunch (Feb 16, 2016)

Skull Pilot said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > Says the person that probably should join the isis and would be greeted by all of them for his anti-science, anti-knowledge and anti-civilization crap.
> ...



ISIS? Created by the USA!!! why should I?


----------



## ObligationLaunch (Feb 16, 2016)

initforme said:


> Uneducated parents have dumb kids.  Dumb kids work for low wages.  Then they end up living in squaler.  Definitely a troll thread.



Have you ever checked your mantra?


----------



## PK1 (Feb 16, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> > Please give me a SPECIFIC example where a teacher tells lies.
> ...


---
Uneducated parents are better than trained teachers in *educating* our youth??  Not logical.
As before, you are talking in gross generalities. 

You did not provide SPECIFIC examples for which "lies" are associated with the teaching of evolution, physics, etc.

Perhaps you were not educated in those scientific fields ...
.


----------



## psikeyhackr (Feb 17, 2016)

My my, look at what has finally turned up in Project Gutenberg:
*
The Marching Morons* (1951), by C.M. Kornbluth
The Project Gutenberg eBook of The Marching Morons, by C. M. Kornbluth.

The probable inspiration for* Idiocracy*


psik


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 20, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > Education in the United States is one set of governments that people have some local control. Fifty states, fifty boards of education, and in those fifty states over 13000 local school districts boards of education. So here, Americans can assert some government authority but all they do is complain about education and how it's governed in their states and in their local districts. Maybe local control is a concept that is passed, and the federal government should take complete  control of education?
> ...



The only one is see is YOU!


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 20, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> > ObligationLaunch said:
> ...




I just spent the last two days using math to show how cancer cells grow.

Why are you being such a tool?


----------



## regent (Feb 20, 2016)

Why does education seem such a threat to so many?
Why such fear, and it has always been so throughout history.


----------



## Unkotare (Feb 20, 2016)

regent said:


> Why does education seem such a threat to so many?
> ....




Who has said that?


----------



## regent (Feb 20, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > Why does education seem such a threat to so many?
> ...


I just said it.


----------



## Unkotare (Feb 20, 2016)

regent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > regent said:
> ...




You feel threatened by education? Why?


----------



## regent (Feb 20, 2016)

Might try reading my post again and If you still need help, let me know.


----------



## Unkotare (Feb 20, 2016)

regent said:


> Might try reading my post again and If you still need help, let me know.




Do you want to try again? Who, on this thread, has indicated a fear of education? Read slowly and carefully.


----------



## anotherlife (Feb 20, 2016)

Education is dangerous.  Do you know how many mothers broke their wooden spoons on their children's butts whilst inspiring then for education?  And worse for you if you are the wooden spoon.


----------



## regent (Feb 20, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > Might try reading my post again and If you still need help, let me know.
> ...


I guess I'm going to end up trying to help you after all. I am talking about the population in general off and on these boards. These boards may indicates fear of education but is it a fear of education or a fear of spending money trying to educate those that might become liberal with education; is it a fear of labor unions becoming more powerful, what is the fear? Is it simply a case of I got my education so to educate more diminishes my status?


----------



## initforme (Feb 20, 2016)

Fear of unions is fear of having decent working conditions.  Some are fully against that.


----------



## Unkotare (Feb 21, 2016)

regent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > regent said:
> ...




In other words, nobody. You were just being a little drama-queen until shamed into being even somewhat honest.


----------



## psikeyhackr (Feb 23, 2016)

initforme said:


> Fear of unions is fear of having decent working conditions.  Some are fully against that.



What union ever suggested that workers know accounting or that it be mandatory in the schools.  JOBS are for income but isn't what is done with the money afterward important.

So the UAW members went into debt to buy cars designed to become obsolete like everyone else.


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Feb 24, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> Public schooling is not here to learn and educate childeren, but to
> make childrend dumb, conformists, a- creative , stupid and what have you,
> 
> It is here to indoctrinate children with bollocks and shite.
> ...




If education = indoctrination, I do have to admity that you appear to be one of the least well-indoctrinated peopple here.

.....and all things considered, that is saying quite a lot!


----------



## ObligationLaunch (Mar 3, 2016)

and yes, people here first don't read very well.

I stated very well I am all for education! hank you very much.

Secondly, people still confuse indoctrination with education.

The WHOLE idea of public schools is indoctrinationm *NOT* education!

I am not afreaid for real education at all, as some very very very strange peolple have put up here. I am all for that!

I am against indoctrination.


----------



## Unkotare (Mar 3, 2016)

Irony alert ^^^^^^^^


----------



## guno (Mar 3, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> > Please give me a SPECIFIC example where a teacher tells lies.
> ...





ObligationLaunch said:


> I really think uneducated parents are better then trained teachres, yes



teachres

you were home skooled weren't you


----------



## ObligationLaunch (Mar 3, 2016)

Gee, the sheer stupidity here actually proves my point!


----------



## Unkotare (Mar 3, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> Gee, the sheer stupidity here actually proves my point!






Your point being that you're an illiterate mental case?


----------



## ObligationLaunch (Mar 5, 2016)

Yawwwn


The girl with the ad hominem


----------



## OldLady (Mar 5, 2016)

baileyn45 said:


> Rouge Rover said:
> 
> 
> > ObligationLaunch said:
> ...


_Teaching critical thinking skills is a thing of the past._
To teach critical thinking, children need to be exposed to different ideas, such as showing the other side of manifest destiny, the reality of poverty among minorities, both sides of the global warming and even evolutionary debates.  Some parents would consider this "indoctrination" because they disagree with one side or the other.  Think of the uproar in Virginia over a teacher having the high school students trace a Muslim phrase they didn't even know the translation of. 
I intensely dislike having education called indoctrination.  When the government allows only one side of an issue to be presented, it can be called indoctrination.  When it asks that BOTH sides be presented, it is fair, challenging and what I would expect my child to learn.  I work with a curriculum designed around Common Core expectations and there is nothing sinister about it.  It is designed to address the problem of rote learning that has been mentioned here.
As for social indoctrination, your examples are grossly exaggerated and I would bet you money that you have never actually encountered a college student that was offended by God Bless You.  Not being able to find Texas, alas, I believe.


ObligationLaunch said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > A way of teaching is called curriculum.  What you teach is called standards.  Common Core is a set of standards.
> ...


It is no different than the standards you were taught!  They are just being set down in logical sequence by grade level.  No one says it's easy to understand the language of the standards -- believe me, I know -- but there is nothing evil in them.  They encourage rigor and analysis and creative thought.  What you call "critical thinking."


----------



## Unkotare (Mar 5, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> ...
> 
> 
> well [sic], ... then point out where my english [sic] is wrong and while you are at it, please state the level of you [sic] edu oeps [sic] indoctrination, thank you [sic].





There are at least five errors in that supposed sentence, you idiot.


----------



## Unkotare (Mar 5, 2016)

OldLady said:


> ...
> _Teaching critical thinking skills is a thing of the past....._




No it's not.


----------



## OldLady (Mar 6, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


I know.  I was quoting.


----------



## ObligationLaunch (Mar 7, 2016)

OldLady said:


> baileyn45 said:
> 
> 
> > Rouge Rover said:
> ...



I agree with a lot, but Common Core??? Pleeeassseeee


----------



## ObligationLaunch (Mar 7, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



That is true, It really never was there in the first place!

Who on earth wanted to let slaves think criticallY??

Exactly!


----------



## ObligationLaunch (Mar 7, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ObligationLaunch said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



actually, there are more.

BUT I do rather wel, considering a lot of the language is as  chinese is for you.

Thanks for the ad hominem again, mate! You feel rather frustrated.


Lack of education, I guess


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Mar 8, 2016)

ObligationLaunch said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> > baileyn45 said:
> ...



So why not enlighten us why you have a problem with it?


----------

