# Should sex offenders be absolved from public stigma?



## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

I'm most referring to those who suffer from pedophelia (yes its a diagnosable paychiatric disorder) those who have done both group and personal therapy who have done away (or presumably so) with their sexual interest in prepubescent children.

My question is twofold: 

1) Can someone who suffers from this condition find "absolution" from society 

2) If not, how can someone who is a pedophile, recover if they are constantly bombarded with the reminder of their sins?


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## jwoodie (Oct 15, 2012)

I think you have it backwards:  Just as recovering alcoholics admit that they are not "currently" drinking, pedophiles need to remember their addiction in order to keep it under control.  That being said, the term "sex offender" is probably too broadly used in today's hypersensitive culture.


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## jillian (Oct 15, 2012)

jwoodie said:


> I think you have it backwards:  Just as recovering alcoholics admit that they are not "currently" drinking, pedophiles need to remember their addiction in order to keep it under control.  That being said, the term "sex offender" is probably too broadly used in today's hypersensitive culture.



anyone who has ever learned anything about pedophilia knows that it is impossible for a pedophile to keep himself under control. recidivism is almost guaranteed if they aren't imprisoned or chemically castrated.


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## martybegan (Oct 15, 2012)

jillian said:


> jwoodie said:
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> > I think you have it backwards:  Just as recovering alcoholics admit that they are not "currently" drinking, pedophiles need to remember their addiction in order to keep it under control.  That being said, the term "sex offender" is probably too broadly used in today's hypersensitive culture.
> ...



Totally agree with the above. It also leads to the issue of current laws usually lumping the pedophilles listed above with other forms of "sex offenders."  You can get situations where a 19 year old having consensual sex with his 15 year old girlfriend is considered similar to a flasher, a rapist or the above mentioned pedophile. 

There should be no issue with stigma in society for pedophiles, as they shouldnt be let back into society.  As for rapists, well you get what you sow.  If the thought of the stigma of being a rapist following you through life is to tough, then dont be a rapist.


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## freedombecki (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> I'm most referring to those who suffer from pedophelia (yes its a diagnosable paychiatric disorder) those who have done both group and personal therapy who have done away (or presumably so) with their sexual interest in prepubescent children.
> 
> My question is twofold:
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1) Like WJC?
2) No


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## High_Gravity (Oct 15, 2012)

Nope.


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## RetiredGySgt (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> I'm most referring to those who suffer from pedophelia (yes its a diagnosable paychiatric disorder) those who have done both group and personal therapy who have done away (or presumably so) with their sexual interest in prepubescent children.
> 
> My question is twofold:
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> ...



None of them are cured, all will repeat their crimes. The real sex offenders should be locked up in a psych ward for life. The ones that peed in public and other ignorant minor crimes should be let alone.

What I disagree with is the continued harassment of these people by our system. If we refuse to change the law to properly punish them then we should not deny them places to live and work if we are going to claim they paid their debt. It is Unconstitutional how we treat them.

Change the damn law. Conviction should result in a life sentence to a psychiatric prison of sorts.


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## Quantum Windbag (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> I'm most referring to those who suffer from pedophelia (yes its a diagnosable paychiatric disorder) those who have done both group and personal therapy who have done away (or presumably so) with their sexual interest in prepubescent children.
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What evidence do you have that pedophilia is any different than homosexuality? If one can be cured, why not the other?


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## Quantum Windbag (Oct 15, 2012)

jillian said:


> jwoodie said:
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> > I think you have it backwards:  Just as recovering alcoholics admit that they are not "currently" drinking, pedophiles need to remember their addiction in order to keep it under control.  That being said, the term "sex offender" is probably too broadly used in today's hypersensitive culture.
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Anyone who has ever learned anything about humans knows that individuals can accomplish amazing things.


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## PaulS1950 (Oct 15, 2012)

I will not say that noone can be "cured" but having worked with a few pedophiles I will say that they don't see that they did anything wrong. They profess "love" for their victim and feel love from them. In their mind all they did was love a person who loves them back.
It is difficult, at best, to cure someone who firmly believes that they did nothing wrong. 
That is why they have to register and stay away from the age group that could become victims. Just like you they feel it is normal to share their love with one who loves them. They just happen to love kids that are too young to be able to say no.
Putting them into a mental institution is not viable. Even chemical castration is limited in its results and depends on the perpetrator taking the meds. A bit like giving a wolf a leash and teaching it that it has to put the leash on to stay away from the sheep. When the wolf gets hungry enough it will go after the sheep. It is its nature.


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## koshergrl (Oct 15, 2012)

"
Detailed documentation of how Alfred Kinsey (The Kinsey reports: 1948 and 1953), a pornography-addicted, sadomasochistic, bi/homosexual pedophile propagandist was able to launch the sexual revolution, reduce sex crime penalties and sabotage American sex law.
ALEC explains how the states adopted Kinsey's bad data into law, penology and social issues, especially promoting its application in "sex education" and sex ed curricula.
More specifically, Kinseyan law "revisers" ended our American Common Law sexual controls via:

Sex law Revision Commissions using Kinsey and his therapeutic elites as consultants
Bar, law school journal and media articles relying on Kinsey
Creation of the 1955 Kinsey-based American Law Institute Model Penal Code
Redefining sexual predators as "ill" and in need of therapeutic/drug cures and early parole.
Conclusions are based on data from 30 states, focusing on six states: Missouri, Kentucky, New Jersey, Kansas, Minnesota and Georgia. For example, in Missouri revisionists redefined rape as 11 different crimes yielding more than 11 different adjudication issues and sentences.

Rapist(s) can now plea-bargain for a substantially lesser offense (e.g., sexual misconduct or simple assault).
In other cases, offenders simply pay a misdemeanor fine, avoiding the "sex crime" stigma.
Like all states, to make these changes, Missouri relied on the Kinsey-based 1955 ALI Model Penal Code
Other states Law Journals cite the Kinsey Report data to:

Legalize prostitution (Maine, 1976)
Trivialize boy prostitution (Duke University, 1960)
Lighten all sex crime penalties (Ohio, 1959)
Express "beneficent concern for pedophiles" (Georgia, 1969)
Aid molesters as children seduce men (Missouri, 1973, Tennessee, 1965)
Reject judicial "condemnation of sex offenders" (Pennsylvania, 1952)
Assert that 95% of males are sex offenders (Oregon, 1972)
Reduce, eliminate most sex crime laws, including rape (Oklahoma, 1970)
Legalize homosexuality (South Dakota, 1968)
Legalize sodomy if 10%-37% of males have been homosexual (most journals)
Ridicule virtue, honor, chastity as unrealistic (Playboy's Hefner; Colorado, 1967)
The massive increase in juvenile and adult sexual crime and disorder post 1950 fully identifies the painfully high costs of Kinsey's "junk science" to society."

Aristotle is campaigning to remove the stigma of child molestation with this thread. 

Concerned Women for America - ALEC Exposes Kinsey's Role in Sabotaging American Law


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## RosieS (Oct 15, 2012)

Pedophilia cannot be effectively treated at this time. Those who are the most dangerous need to be institutionalized. Here in FL they are housed in their own medical facility on prison grounds after their sentence is up. They can get released if two psychiatrists sign off...but that is exceedingly rare.

Lesser offenders need to be kept on strict supervised parole with the ankle bracelet and a parole officer for life or until effective drugs are proven to work.

Homosexuality is not a mental condition; hasn't been classified as such for decades. Google is a friend to the ignorant.

Regards from Rosie


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## koshergrl (Oct 15, 2012)

And the *stigma* exists in order to protect children. It's hard to protect children from sexual predators if we dont' identify who those predators are.


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## RosieS (Oct 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> And the *stigma* exists in order to protect children. It's hard to protect children from sexual predators if we dont' identify who those predators are.



There is a pretty clear correlation with the amount of kiddie porn downloaded and the chances of being a kiddie raper. Normal adults don't belong to kiddie porn exchange circles.

ISP owners need to have full immunity for turning in child pornographers...both producers and consumers.

People also need to take responsibility for turning them in. If there is ANY suspicion at all....of any kind...call the abuse hotline and report anonymously. It is there to help prevent the rape of children.

Regards from Rosie


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

jwoodie said:


> *I think you have it backwards:  Just as recovering alcoholics admit that they are not "currently" drinking, pedophiles need to remember their addiction in order to keep it under control.*  That being said, the term "sex offender" is probably too broadly used in today's hypersensitive culture.



Regarding the bold I think YOU may have it backwards when it comes to the idea of "remembrance." In psychotherapy, in most Alcoholics Anonymous meetings alcoholics are taught to address their addiction head on. In psychotherapy remembering who they were is not encouraged, but how far they've come. Especially when it comes to recovering alcoholics because remembering certain activities can bring about a relapse. 

For example an Alcoholic is encouraged to stay away from hangout spots, or certain streets because of these memories can bring about a resurgence of a relapse. This is especially true from recovering cocaine users.


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## syrenn (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> I'm most referring to those who suffer from pedophelia (yes its a diagnosable paychiatric disorder) those who have done both group and personal therapy who have done away (or presumably so) with their sexual interest in prepubescent children.
> 
> My question is twofold:
> 
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Should they be forgiven.... no. Should it all be swept under the carpet as if it never happened.... no. Should it ever be forgotten... no. 

Its a free country....they can move to where they wish for a fresh start. 

That is unless you are asking the bigger question of should there be watch lists of sexual offenders..... the answer to that is yes.


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

jillian said:


> jwoodie said:
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> > I think you have it backwards:  Just as recovering alcoholics admit that they are not "currently" drinking, pedophiles need to remember their addiction in order to keep it under control.  That being said, the term "sex offender" is probably too broadly used in today's hypersensitive culture.
> ...



Cognitive-behavioral therapy along with leuprolide acetate which is mostly used to treat prostate cancer and is a synthetic gonadotrophin releasing hormone, has shown promise reducing pedophilic fantasies, urges, and masturbation. Of course trial studies note that this has to be a continuing effort. You don't need to be "chemically castrated" but it does help.


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## jillian (Oct 15, 2012)

martybegan said:


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i agree with all of the above. i think many, if not most, states have romeo and juliette laws which protect teenage lovers from statutory rape and other charges.


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

syrenn said:


> Aristotle said:
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> > I'm most referring to those who suffer from pedophelia (yes its a diagnosable paychiatric disorder) those who have done both group and personal therapy who have done away (or presumably so) with their sexual interest in prepubescent children.
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Well then I guess you do not not subscribe to the belief of the possibility of one recovering from a severe behavioral disorder. Interesting


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## jillian (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


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again...no one recovers from being a pedophile.

why are you sympathetic to them?


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## jillian (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


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pedophiles don't recover. no matter what efforts are made.


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

martybegan said:


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Well in research majority of pedophiles have some sort of past history with sexual abuse, and physical abuse themselves. Their experiences creating a cyclic effect, eventually lands them in the situation they themselves were in. The stigma associated with being a sex offender in this case the pedophile does nothing for future preventative methods. I'm not saying their offense is excusable but I think society needs to be more educated in that the occurence of pedophilia is not spotaneous.


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

jillian said:


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Do you have proof of this...Non-anecdotes please. I can point to you several research articles where there were imporvements.

You can start with this abstract here:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/f847p86120935256/


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

freedombecki said:


> Aristotle said:
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Ok going to 2) How do you know concretely that someone suffering from pedophilia do not recover?


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Aristotle said:
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## RetiredGySgt (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


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You made the claim. YOU provide evidence a pedo has been CURED. You do remember one does not prove a negative, right?  So provide us with actual proof of one being cured.

I am sure the children that the "improved" pedo rapes won't care that he showed improvement.


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## syrenn (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


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most ..."recovered" relapse. The only thing they may gain...is a bit of control over their urges. That is not recovered.... it is only hiding what they want better. 

I also do not think there is a "cure" for this. Just as there is no "cure" for being gay. Fucking children is what "does" it for them..... simple as that.


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## syrenn (Oct 15, 2012)

jillian said:


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They no more recover then a gay person does with trying to be straight...

all that happens is they are given the tools to hide it better.


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## syrenn (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


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it is bullshit to blame your past of what you are doing to others......


total excuse.


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Aristotle said:
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For one, pedophilia is a diagnosable disorder in the DSM-IV TR

"A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger). 

B. The person has acted on these urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.

C. The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A. 

Note: Do not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13-year-old."

Whereas us psychologist do not classify homosexuality which is an unchanged sexual orientation much like heterosexuality to not be a diagnosable disorder. In fact to even compare homosexuality to pedophilia would be an insult to homosexuals.

The APA (American Psychological Association) is clear on this issue:

Is homosexuality a mental disorder?

"No, lesbian, gay, and bisexual orientations are not disorders. Research has found no inherent association between any of these sexual orientations and psychopathology. Both heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Both have been documented in many different cultures and historical eras. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. Lesbian, gay, and bisexual relationships are normal forms of human bonding. Therefore, these mainstream organizations long ago abandoned classifications of homosexuality as a mental disorder."

What about therapy intended to change sexual orientation from gay to straight?

"All major national mental health organizations have officially expressed concerns about therapies promoted to modify sexual orientation. To date, there has been no scientifically adequate research to show that therapy aimed at changing sexual orientation (sometimes called reparative or conversion therapy) is safe or effective. Furthermore, it seems likely that the promotion of change therapies reinforces stereotypes and contributes to a negative climate for lesbian, gay, and bisexual persons. This appears to be especially likely for lesbian, gay, and bisexual individuals who grow up in more conservative religious settings.

Helpful responses of a therapist treating an individual who is troubled about her or his same-sex attractions include helping that person actively cope with social prejudices against homosexuality, successfully resolve issues associated with and resulting from internal conflicts, and actively lead a happy and satisfying life. Mental health professional organizations call on their members to respect a persons (clients) right to self-determination; be sensitive to the clients race, culture, ethnicity, age, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion, socioeconomic status, language, and disability status when working with that client; and eliminate biases based on these factors."

See:Sexual orientation, homosexuality and bisexuality

Nice try Quantum, but you fail again...as usual


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

jillian said:


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No I am not really.

I am sympathetic to those suffering from mental illness. Do I think the actions of pedophiles are sick? Most definitely. But I'm a researcher. Rather than condemning something without understanding causality I'm trying to understand it. Scientist cannot dismiss something off fallacious premise, we need the scdientific method in understanding the issue. That is all I'm saying.


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

RetiredGySgt said:


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I never made the claim that anyone is "cured" you guys stated the word. I clearly mention that there was research that showed "promise" with a combination of techniques used in psychotherapy. Stop reading with emotion. I never said the word cured, if anything, I said the word recover. Recover is not the same as being cured. Know the difference.


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

syrenn said:


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This makes no sense.

So someone recovering from heroin addiction is not necessarily recovered, they are just hiding what they truly want. That really makes no sense at all and in fact for those that are recovering addicts that really downplays their efforts. True, there are those that do not recover ever. Not becase they can't but because they have an inability to cope with a new lifestyle. A therapist cannot be with someone 24/7 which is why most psychotherapy sesssions try to equip people with tools to do it themselves.


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## syrenn (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


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if you are a looking for a scientific answer...they why are you asking this question on a political message board?


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## jillian (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


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they are still a danger to children... 

end of discussion... i want to know if one of the creeps is living on my block.

oh..and in answer to your question:

read/learn

Pessimism About Pedophilia - Harvard Health Publications


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

syrenn said:


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Who says pedophiles use it as an excuse. I'm merely highlighting what research in case studies have shown. Pedophilia is not a spontaneous behavior. It came from somewhere.


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## syrenn (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


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Ever talk to a "recovered" heroine addict? They want to use ALL the time.....


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## syrenn (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


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pedophilia.. is no different then homosexuality in terms of  ...who and what you are sexual attracted to being outside the social norm. 

It just so happens what pedos are attracted to are children.....


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

PaulS1950 said:


> I will not say that noone can be "cured" but having worked with a few pedophiles I will say that they don't see that they did anything wrong. They profess "love" for their victim and feel love from them. In their mind all they did was love a person who loves them back.
> It is difficult, at best, to cure someone who firmly believes that they did nothing wrong.
> That is why they have to register and stay away from the age group that could become victims. Just like you they feel it is normal to share their love with one who loves them. They just happen to love kids that are too young to be able to say no.
> Putting them into a mental institution is not viable. Even chemical castration is limited in its results and depends on the perpetrator taking the meds. A bit like giving a wolf a leash and teaching it that it has to put the leash on to stay away from the sheep. When the wolf gets hungry enough it will go after the sheep. It is its nature.



Eh, yes and no but yes, in my encounter with one particular pedophile when I did my internship at USC medical center this particular individual expressed the same thing. Although he was also suffering from a brain tumor.


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## Katzndogz (Oct 15, 2012)

Pedophiles don't think they need to recover.  Society must learn to be more accepting of their sexual orientation.   That's what they think of their own mental defect.  It is a sexual orientation, no different than homosexuality.   That's why they don't need to recover.


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## techieny (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


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> > I will not say that noone can be "cured" but having worked with a few pedophiles I will say that they don't see that they did anything wrong. They profess "love" for their victim and feel love from them. In their mind all they did was love a person who loves them back.
> ...



Good!!!


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## syrenn (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


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why..... you yourself just did......


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## syrenn (Oct 15, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Pedophiles don't think they need to recover.  Society must learn to be more accepting of their sexual orientation.   That's what they think of their own mental defect.  It is a sexual orientation, no different than homosexuality.   That's why they don't need to recover.




Which is why the homosexual community is trying to distance themselves from these people as fast as they can...

its a slippery slope with their argument....and they know it. 


nambla and nagwala have been trying to attach themselves onto the homosexual coat tails for acceptability for a very long time.


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## koshergrl (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


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Not when it's pedophilia.


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## RosieS (Oct 15, 2012)

Homosexuality is legal. Expression of pedophilic urges is illegal everywhere and always. So is child pornography. I can't imagine this ever not being so since no sane person can ever believe children can consent.

Adult homosexuals are not psychiatrically deviant. Pedophiles are and always will be. Sane adults would never ever legitimize pedophilia in any form

It doesn't matter what gender the pedo or the child is. Child rape is child rape and is a psychiatric disorder.

Regards from Rosie


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

syrenn said:


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I think you need to understand the difference between gynephelia and androphelia. The issue regarding homosexual pedophilia is complex. Pedophilia is not homosexuality. One is a sexual orientation, the other is not. Which is why concerning gynophelia and androphelia they implement scales. As I mentioned before homosexuality is not a diagnosable disorder nor is there enough research to conclude that there is a high incidence of homosexual pedophilia.


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

syrenn said:


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Who says I'm looking for a scientific answer? I never asked that and if I did please put it in quotes here. I posed a question in a debate section. We are debating.


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## syrenn (Oct 15, 2012)

RosieS said:


> Homosexuality is legal. Expression of pedophilic urges is illegal everywhere and always. So is child pornography. I can't imagine this ever not being so since no sane person can ever believe children can consent.
> 
> Adult homosexuals are not psychiatrically deviant. Pedophiles are and always will be. Sane adults would never ever legitimize pedophilia in any form
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i agree...

but pedos are also making the case that being a pedo is ASLO a sexual orientation....


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## koshergrl (Oct 15, 2012)

Actually, there is a high incidence of homosexual pedophilia.

And we know that pedophiles are made, not born.


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## koshergrl (Oct 15, 2012)

RosieS said:


> Homosexuality is legal. Expression of pedophilic urges is illegal everywhere and always. So is child pornography. I can't imagine this ever not being so since no sane person can ever believe children can consent.
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> Adult homosexuals are not psychiatrically deviant. Pedophiles are and always will be. Sane adults would never ever legitimize pedophilia in any form
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> ...


 
Not true. Child rape is not a psychiatric disorder.

And pedophiles often do have a sex preference.


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

jillian said:


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Looks like you skimmed through your own reference

"Researchers also do not agree about what proportion of child sex abusers are pedophiles. Other types of offenders include sexually curious or abusive adolescents who molest younger children, hypersexual adults who opportunistically target children, and people who act impulsively (rather than in response to erotic attachment) under the influence of alcohol or drugs. Moreover, about half of all child sexual abuse victims are 12 to 17 years old (postpubescent), so their assailants don't meet the strict definition of pedophilia."

This is why clinicians continue to update the DSM because there is a need to expand the definition given the more we learn in research.


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Actually, there is a high incidence of homosexual pedophilia.
> 
> And we know that pedophiles are made, not born.



Reference?

Edit****

Let me help you out...again

Previous investigations have indicated that the ratio of sex offenders against female children vs. offenders against male children is approximately 2:1, while the ratio of gynephiles to androphiles among the general population is approximately 20:1. The present study investigated whether the etiology of preferred partner sex among pedophiles is related to the etiology of preferred partner sex among males preferring adult partners. Using phallometric test sensitivities to calculate the proportion of true pedophiles among various groups of sex offenders against children, and taking into consideration previously reported mean numbers of victims per offender group, the ratio of heterosexual to homosexual pedophiles was calculated to be approximately 11:1. This suggests that the resulting proportion of true pedophiles among persons with a homosexual erotic development is greater than that in persons who develop heterosexually. *This, of course, would not indicate that androphilic males have a greater propensity to offend against children*.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1556756

Let me help you out some more...again


*Irresponsible to Link Homosexuality, Pedophilia*

"To link homosexuality and pedophilia (or ephebophilia) is obviously erroneous, uninformed and irresponsible. Homosexuality is a sexual orientation. Pedophilia and ephebophilia are sexual disorders that afflict both heterosexuals and homosexuals, and mostly heterosexuals." http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Spirituality/gay-priests-problem/story?id=10381964&page=2

The issue with pedophilia is rooted in the pathology of the behavior which may consist of various factors


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## syrenn (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


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Do you even read what you wirte???



> But I'm a researcher. Rather than condemning something without understanding causality I'm trying to understand it. Scientist cannot dismiss something off fallacious premise, we need the scdientific method in understanding the issue. That is all I'm saying.



here ill bold it for you...again 


you say_ *you*_ are a researcher
you say _*you*_ are trying to understand it

the you say


THERE NEEND'S TO BE A SCIENTIFIC METHOD OF UNDERSTANDING IT. 



so again i will ask...

_if you are a looking for a scientific answer...then why are you asking this question on a political message board?_


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## RosieS (Oct 15, 2012)

syrenn said:


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> > Pedophiles don't think they need to recover.  Society must learn to be more accepting of their sexual orientation.   That's what they think of their own mental defect.  It is a sexual orientation, no different than homosexuality.   That's why they don't need to recover.
> ...



Pedophilia will always be illegal. Children will never have the wherewithal to consent. The homosexuality argument is a red herring. It doesn't matter what gender the pedo or the child is: child rape is child rape.

There is no evidence that all pedos were victims as children. Many were not. It is a 
psychiatric disorder whether brought on by unresolved rape crisis or abnormal fixations.

Regards from Rosie


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## syrenn (Oct 15, 2012)

RosieS said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...




dont get me wrong..i am not throwing the homosexual under the bus. Nor am i saying that pedophilia should ever be legal. 


however.... i do not believe that pedophilia is no more a mental illness then homosexuality. That may be a hard thing for many to come to grips and terms with though. It is a sexual preference...


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## Quantum Windbag (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
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I though sexual preference is perfectly natural, when did it become a severe behavioral disorder?


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## koshergrl (Oct 15, 2012)

RosieS said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...


 
There is evidence that all pedos were molested as chidlren, and exactly zero that pedos are born. YES IT OFTEN DOES MATTER what sex the child is. Pedophiles OFTEN identify themselves as having a preference for one sex or the other. The myth that pedophiles can't be homosexual because they're pedophiles is just that..a myth, propagated by the homosexual bloc. 

And the schizophrenic posturing over this issue is ludicrous because...while homosexual activists insist that homosexuality *can't be helped* and is hardwired, they want to also assert that pedophilia is a sexual preference, separate from homosexuality...which presumably is also hardwired..

Except it's not. This we know about pedophilia...children aren't born that way. Pedophiles are created.

So if pedophiles are created, and they are a distinct *sexuality* from homosexuality, and pedophiles CAN'T be homosexual, because they're pedophiles...how is it that homosexuals are hardwired from birth...yet pedophiles are CREATED?

Are they not separate sexual preferences? If homosexuals can't help what they are, if they're BORN that way, if there was never a homosexual MADE...and if one can't be a homosexual pedophile because pedophilia is a separate sexual preference...then how can pedophiles be made, while homosexuals must be born?

Not that it matters...because there are homosexual pedophiles. There are also hetero pedophiles. Because pedophilia isn't hardwired at birth. It's hardwired later, via sexual abuse. It's a deviant sexual behavior that is taught, and then chosen, by the pedophile.


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## Quantum Windbag (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> martybegan said:
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> > jillian said:
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Is that the same research that makes the same claims about homosexuality? Did it ever occur to you that they might be lying? That, because they have been caught, they are looking for mitigating circumstances to lessen their sentences?


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## Quantum Windbag (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> jillian said:
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> > Aristotle said:
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Improvement is not a cure, not to mention that all those improvements rely on the honesty of the participants.


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## koshergrl (Oct 15, 2012)

There's no improvement with treatment, and there's no cure.

They can reduce the urges by medicating the holy crap out of peds, but it just masks it, it doesn't change it or fix it.

"Pedophilia, the sexual attraction to children who have not yet reached puberty, remains a vexing challenge for clinicians and public officials. Classified as a paraphilia, an abnormal sexual behavior, researchers have found no effective treatment. Like other sexual orientations, pedophilia is unlikely to change. The goal of treatment, therefore, is to prevent someone from acting on pedophile urges &#8212; either by decreasing sexual arousal around children or increasing the ability to manage that arousal. But neither is as effective for reducing harm as preventing access to children, or providing close supervision."

Pessimism About Pedophilia - Harvard Health Publications


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## George Costanza (Oct 15, 2012)

syrenn said:


> however.... i do not believe that pedophilia is no more a mental illness then homosexuality. That may be a hard thing for many to come to grips and terms with though. It is a sexual preference...[/COLOR]



I think you meant to say that you do not believe that pedophilia is _any_ more a mental illness than homosexuality.

While it is true that neither pedophilia nor homosexuality are forms of mental illness, it does not necessarily follow that either of them are matters of choice or preference, rather than compulsion.  In spite of your opinion on this subject, I think that the better thinking in today's scientific world is that both homosexuality and pedophilia are genetically formed, rather than matters of free choice.


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## Quantum Windbag (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
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Pedophilia and homosexuality were both listed in the DSM II until political pressure made it inadvisable to continue listing homosexuality as a disorder. That pressure resulted in them dropping it in DSM III.  Any informed person would know that, and not try to pretend that the lack of a change in one is proof of anything other than a lack political pressure.

Want to try again and provide objective scientific data to show a difference?


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## koshergrl (Oct 15, 2012)

"Because people with pedophilic urges tend to be attracted to children of a particular gender, they are sometimes described in the literature as heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual pedophiles. Roughly 9% to 40% of pedophiles are homosexual in their orientation toward children "


Pessimism About Pedophilia - Harvard Health Publications


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## koshergrl (Oct 15, 2012)

"
When confronted about sexual abuse, convicted pedophiles often rationalize their actions, such as insisting that a victimized child acted seductively or enjoyed the encounter. These rationalizations may reflect an inability to empathize with the child, which could be part of a co-occurring antisocial or narcissistic personality disorder."

This is interesting:

"Some researchers fear that the growth of Internet communities for people with pedophilic tendencies may encourage users to act on their sexual urges and share information about how to elude detection. But other commentators note that these online communities actually make it easier for law enforcement officials to lure and entrap potential offenders before they commit a sexual crime."


Pessimism About Pedophilia - Harvard Health Publications


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## George Costanza (Oct 15, 2012)

jillian said:


> why are you sympathetic to them?
> 
> or are you just trolling for a response?



One can advocate fair treatment for those accused/convicted of sex crimes, without being "sympathetic" to them.  I defend people charged with horrible crimes all the time.  Am I "sympathetic" to them?  No - not in the sense that I approve of what they did.  But I am sympathetic to their treatment by the criminal justice system.  That's my sworn job.

You know that.


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## syrenn (Oct 15, 2012)

George Costanza said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> > however.... i do not believe that pedophilia is no more a mental illness then homosexuality. That may be a hard thing for many to come to grips and terms with though. It is a sexual preference...[/COLOR]
> ...



yes, thank you for the correction. That IS how i meant it to come out. 


Agree.... and if that is so.... then you cant play this card both ways.... either they are all something you cannot choose...and NOT an mental illness.... or it IS something you choose and is a mental illness.


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## Quantum Windbag (Oct 15, 2012)

George Costanza said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> > however.... i do not believe that pedophilia is no more a mental illness then homosexuality. That may be a hard thing for many to come to grips and terms with though. It is a sexual preference...[/COLOR]
> ...



I prefer to believe that they are both choice, but it, ultimately, means the same thing. Either you can chose, or you can't. It makes no sense to argue that adult homosexuals and heterosexuals cannot choose, then argue that adult pedophiles are free to choose.


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## Againsheila (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> I'm most referring to those who suffer from pedophelia (yes its a diagnosable paychiatric disorder) those who have done both group and personal therapy who have done away (or presumably so) with their sexual interest in prepubescent children.
> 
> My question is twofold:
> 
> ...



As far as I know, it's a disease and there is no cure, as long as there is no cure, we need the stigma, we need the registry, we need to know where these people are so we can protect our children.

However, I do not believe taking pictures of your babies in their bathwater, or running around the house naked is pedophilia.  If they are going to have a stigma for a crime, make sure it's a real crime.


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## koshergrl (Oct 15, 2012)

"Men sexually attracted to young adolescent boys are the most persistent and prolific child molesters known to the criminal-justice system. Depending on how one defines molestation, they can easily have dozens if not hundreds of victims in a lifetime. They usually begin their activity when they are teenagers themselves and continue throughout their lives as long as they are physically able. "

AbuseWatch.NET


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## Quantum Windbag (Oct 15, 2012)

George Costanza said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > why are you sympathetic to them?
> ...



A thankless job that deserves a lot more money than you get.


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## syrenn (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> syrenn said:
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where do i say that homosexuals are pedophiles? 


However...if a pedophile hunts its own sex exclusive...then that person is not only a pedo..but a gay pedo.


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## koshergrl (Oct 15, 2012)

"Many pedophiles spend their entire lives attempting to convince themselves and others that they are not evil sexual perverts, but good guys who love and nurture children. That is a major reason why they do such things as join organizations where they can help troubled children and volunteer to search for missing children. Preferential offender&#8217;s have a driving need to rationalize and justify his behavior."

AbuseWatch.NET


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## AVG-JOE (Oct 15, 2012)

Quantum Windbag said:


> jillian said:
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When they want something.


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

syrenn said:


> Aristotle said:
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Because you made the assertion that pedophilia is no different than homosexuality which is comparing apples and oranges. As of yet, pedophilia is not a sexual orientation. Although it invoves sexualized fantasy of prepubescent children there is no comparison between homosexuality and pedophilia. I believe when I gave Quantum that from the APA website it explained that already. If we are making that comparison upon sexual attraction based on who we desire.you can certainly make the case for heterosexuals but the matter here is the age of the tareget whom you're attracted to which is why in doing testing we have test for androphilia and gynophilia.


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Aristotle said:
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I just gave you a direct link from the APA webaite that clearly defines homosexuality to not be a disorder. You are telling me this organization that has done countless research and has been around for decades is wrong?


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

Quantum Windbag said:


> George Costanza said:
> 
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> > syrenn said:
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Homosexuality is not a choice and neither is pedophilia. Where did you come up with this?


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## Quantum Windbag (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> syrenn said:
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At the time the classification of pedophilia was written homosexuality was. There was no advance in scientific knowledge that led to the reclassification of homosexual behavior, what occurred was a seismic shift in the social landscape.


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## Quantum Windbag (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
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And I pointed out why that decision was made. Feel free to show me the actual science behind the change of opinion, if you can find it.


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## syrenn (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> syrenn said:
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i assume you are able to read. I put a specific rider on my comparison. 



> pedophilia.. is no different then homosexuality *in terms of* ..*.who and what you are sexually attracted to being outside the social norm.*


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## Quantum Windbag (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
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If it is not a choice what is it? Twin studies have conclusively proved it is not genetic, if it was identical twins would always be either homosexual or straight. These studies also discount the argument that hormonal changes during pregnancy cause homosexuality, it also makes the argument that environmental factors are the primary drivers of sexual orientation.

Schacter, Daniel L., Gilbert, Daniel T., and Wegner, Daniel M. (2009) "Psychology". _Worth Publishers_: 435.

Your problem is you already know the answer, so you aren't looking for the information that contradicts you. That alone proves to me you are not actually a researcher, researchers don't approach a problem with the intent of proving they are right, they try to find the real answer.

I have seen no overwhelming evidence that homosexuality is anything but a choice, feel free to prove me wrong by sighting every single discredited study you can find, I will be happy to refute any of them with real world exceptions. 

The universe is not deterministic.


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## syrenn (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
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good to see you feel that way. 

So lets extrapolate this. 

since being a homosexual is not a mental illness based on what you are sexually attracted to.... then neither is or should be pedophilia. 


homosexuals however play within the rules of the age of consent.... they play with adults and are attracted to adults.

pedos..... still want what they want... and that is children. What pisses them off is what they want is off limits to them and against the law. 

There is no "fixing or curing" pedos..... just as there is no "fixing or curing" someone who is gay. 

So saying that they will ever be safe around children becasue they are "cured"....is dangerous.


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## koshergrl (Oct 15, 2012)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Aristotle said:
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The *science* came from Alfred Kinsey, who polled sex offenders, rapists and prisoners to come up with a new sexual "norm". Using his studies, the APA determined that homosexuality was perfectly "normal" and not a deviant behavior.

Kinsey also studies sexual response in children as young as 4 months, and using THOSE studies the kinsey institute and PP created today's sex education program for children....and continue to this day to seek to normalize sexual relations with children. See OP. Pedophilia's a MENTAL DISORDER, the poor things. We need to help them by ignoring their unfortunate problem, instead of stigmatizing them. They might have trouble *recovering* if they are *constantly reminded* of the fact that they have screwed children.


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## syrenn (Oct 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
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> > Aristotle said:
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Yes..... and now he is going to have a serious time squaring that statement...with this 




Aristotle said:


> Homosexuality is not a choice and neither is pedophilia.





So either they all three mental disorders.... or all three not.  

If you can "cure" pedo's.... then you should also be able to cure "homosexuality"


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## sakinago (Oct 15, 2012)

syrenn said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > I'm most referring to those who suffer from pedophelia (yes its a diagnosable paychiatric disorder) those who have done both group and personal therapy who have done away (or presumably so) with their sexual interest in prepubescent children.
> ...



Agreed...for the most part. We got to make sure we get the people who are a danger to children. I forget the numbers, but there is a lot of people who are on the list who arnt even pedophiles. And now I think they are trying to add prostitutes to the list? Im sorry but I dont really call them a threat to society or children. And there are a lot cases of ppl on there who got there by streaking somewhere public, grabbing someones ass at a bar or something and having charges filed against, and romeo and juliet cases. My buddies little brother was 18 dating a 15 year old, when he was 19 broke up with her, the parents didnt like it and now hes on the list. Are theses people stupid, hell yes, do they deserve to be on the list or are they pedophiles, Im gonna say no. 

On top of that, parents need to realize that the list isnt going to do much to protect their family. You wanna protect your kids, educate them and yourselves. Most cases of molestation happens within the family (uncle, grandpa, cousin, etc.) and a lot do not get talked until much later in life. The few cases like penn state, are done by these pedophiles who know how to manipulate and get away with it, and get away with it for years. I will bet my house that sandusky didnt decide to become a pedophile in the 90's, but its been going on for years. You gotta educate you and your kids, I cant stress that enough. When the real pedophiles make it on the list, the damage is already done, we got to stop the damage before it happens


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## AmyNation (Oct 15, 2012)

Pedophilia is not curable.


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## RosieS (Oct 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> RosieS said:
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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Aristotle said:
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Nice job using google and paraphrasing what others wrote.

Regardless the political motive research has progressed and more research has developed showing that homosexuality may have both genetic and environmental components. Different from the Freudian perspective and who (Freud) developed his ideas on homosexuality from  Richard von Krafft-Ebing and Hirschfield, in which Freud believed that all humans were born bi-sexual and that there are pathological components to sexual orientation.

As far as scientific difference I cannot account for every single research that has been done comparing homosexual male brains to heterosexual female brains. There are various ideas regarding the endocrine system. In some studies the anterior portion of the hypothalamus may vary in size between homosexual men and heterosexual women see: 

https://fc.deltasd.bc.ca/~dmatthews/FOV2-00074762/S02DB0598.38/LeVay study.pdf

With pedophiles there still need to be more research on neurobiological mechanism in sex offenders but there are some research that points to brain structural abnormalities speculating frontocortical dysfunction. One research highlights:

"Compared to the homosexual and heterosexual control subjects, *pedophiles showed decreased gray matter volume in the ventral striatum* (also extending into the nucl. accumbens), the orbitofrontal cortex and the cerebellum.

These observations further indicate an association between frontostriatal morphometric abnormalities and pedophilia. In this respect these findings may support the hypothesis that there is a shared etiopathological mechanism in all obsessivecompulsive spectrum disorders."

ScienceDirect.com - Journal of Psychiatric Research - Structural brain abnormalities in the frontostriatal system and cerebellum in pedophilia


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

syrenn said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
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Yes I noticed the play on words....The same can be said about heterosexuality as well.


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

syrenn said:


> Aristotle said:
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> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
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You have it wrong. Yes regarding pedophilia there is no choice because its a pathology which is different from homosexuality. The development of pedophilia is caused by various factors which I've already highlighted earlier. In the biopsychology circle some are even attributing pedophilia to having an abnormal genetic component see: 

ScienceDirect.com - Psychiatry Research - Pedophilia is accompanied by increased plasma concentrations of catecholamines, in particular epinephrine

When I say pedophilia is not a choice I'm referring to the pathology and the displayed behaviors from its development. Pedophilia is destructive, and it ruins lives. You don't "cure" homosexuality because homosexual behavior, unlike pedophilia, it's not destructive. That is why we clinicians do not use the word "cure" and besides using the word cure to describe homosexual orientation in comparison to pedophilia is again, comparing apples and oranges. You cannot compare one destructive lifestyle to a non-destructive lifestyle.


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## Quantum Windbag (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
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I had no need to use Google, I lived through it, and remember how it took decades for the political pressure from US progressives to spread far enough for WHO to declassify homosexuality as a mental disorder.

As for structural abnormalities between brains, I remember that study to. Nice to see that you can use Google yourself. As I recall at the time, there were a lot of questions about cause and effect. Since the brains studied were of dead homosexuals it is entirely possible that a lifetime of homosexuality changed the physical structure of the brain. Since we now have studies that prove that it is actually possible to change brain structure through meditation, feel free to Google it if you don't believe me, how can you prove that the cause/effect between brain structure and homosexuality or pedophilia?

Want to try again? Maybe you can come up with something I haven't seen before, and actually force me to use Google to figure out how to respond.

Good luck with that.


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## koshergrl (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
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Yup. The APA based their findings not on their own studies, but on Kinsey's. Who used as his *control* group pedophiles, inmates and other depraved individuals.


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## syrenn (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
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I beg to differ. Not so long ago... homosexuality was considered a very destructive behavior...that they did try to cure it. To some it still is a disorder and needs to be cured. 

You do also realize that all of your .... *cough* reasoning.... was used in the very same context toward homosexuality not so very long ago. 


yes, i have seen your semantics.... a pedo who is not actively molesting children is always "recovering"..... but never quite all the way recovered. ...oh im sorry...cured.


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

By the way Koshergrl a word of advice I wouldn't rely on Alfred Kinsey.

Not only was a lot of his research at Indiana University based off self-report (which is considered unreliable depending on the research) the man engaged in orgies with his students in his attic to record his data!

One doctor writes:

"There is also a documentary called "Kinsey's Pedophiles" that details Kinsey's involvement with pedophiles and other sexual miscreants from whom he gathered the data that supposedly supports his hypothesis that children are sexual from birth."

Also:

"Kinsey's two books -- "Sexual Behavior in the Human Male," published in 1948, and "Sexual Behavior in the Human Female," which followed in 1952 -- started what we now call the sexual revolution. This revolution is a lot more than just a change in attitude. It's a business -- a multibillion-dollar business.

This contraceptive mentality was born in the kind of sexual license that Kinsey endorsed. He believed pornography was harmless, that adultery can enhance a marriage and that children are sexual from birth." See:Judith Gelernter Reisman, Ph.D. - External Articles: The Truth Behind Alfred Kinsey

I hardly think Alfred Kinsey to be a catalyst in the understanding of homosexuality and pedophilia and in fact you (Koshergrl) citing him actually hurts your argument then helping it.


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## Aristotle (Oct 15, 2012)

syrenn said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > syrenn said:
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Can you provide a link where homosexuality was considered harmful? Please let it be scientific and not religious, I hate to piss off any Christian, Jews, or Muslims here.

I'm just laughing here because you have no real argument but please, I'm at work and I'd like to be entertained here, it lets the time go by fast.


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## koshergrl (Oct 15, 2012)

They're never cured or recovered at all. There is no treatment. There is no cure. They don't recover. They are stigmatized because they prey upon children in the most vile, disgusting manner there is...repeatedly. Pedos don't just molest one...they destroy as many as they can pull in, and it can be dozens and dozens over a lifetime.


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## syrenn (Oct 15, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> syrenn said:
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if the medical community were trying to "cure" homosexuality..... that is a basis for it being harmful.  No link should be needed for that. 

To this date they still do try an cure homosexuality.


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## High_Gravity (Oct 16, 2012)

syrenn said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
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> > syrenn said:
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There are camps all over the nation now claiming they can cure homosexuals.







Driving through Virginia I saw a couple different signs one saying homosexuality was a choice and another billboard advertising a Church that can cure it.


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## koshergrl (Oct 16, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> By the way Koshergrl a word of advice I wouldn't rely on Alfred Kinsey.
> 
> Not only was a lot of his research at Indiana University based off self-report (which is considered unreliable depending on the research) the man engaged in orgies with his students in his attic to record his data!
> 
> ...


 

Which is why I pointed out that the APA made it's determination that homosexuality is not a mental disorder based on KINSEY'S studies. Apparently you agree with me that the determination was based on junk science.


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## koshergrl (Oct 16, 2012)

"A more tolerant stance toward homosexuality was adopted by researchers from other disciplines. Zoologist and taxonomist Alfred C. Kinsey, in his groundbreaking empirical studies of sexual behavior among American adults, revealed that a significant number of his research participants reported having engaged in homosexual behavior to the point of orgasm after age 16 (Kinsey, Pomeroy, & Martin, 1948; Kinsey, Pomeroy, Martin, & Gebhard, 1953). Furthermore, Kinsey and his colleagues reported that 10% of the males in their sample and 2-6% of the females (depending on marital status) had been more or less exclusively homosexual in their behavior for at least three years between the ages of 16 and 55. 
[FONT=arial, helvetica]*A brief introduction to sampling*[/FONT] Despite frequent extrapolations by modern commentators from Kinsey's data to the U.S. adult population, the representativeness of his nonprobability sample cannot be assessed (for methodological and statistical critiques, see Terman, 1948; Cochran, Mosteller, & Tukey, 1954; Wallis, 1949). Nevertheless, his work revealed that many more American adults than previously suspected had engaged in homosexual behavior or had experienced same-sex fantasies. This finding cast doubt on the widespread assumption that homosexuality was practiced only by a small number of social misfits.*1* 

Homosexuality and Mental Health


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## Aristotle (Oct 16, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Aristotle said:
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> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
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No they didn't. The Kinsey reports didn't determine the changing of homosexuality based on Kinsey......This is foolish. Majority of his subjects were his students. What are you talking about? Psychology is my field and I actually spent a good portion of my undergraduate studies learning about Alfred Kinsey and the Linsey reports. A lot of his views were criticized and some dismissed.


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## Aristotle (Oct 16, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > By the way Koshergrl a word of advice I wouldn't rely on Alfred Kinsey.
> ...



No I don't agree with you. A lot of the issues concerning the overtunring of Homosexuality being in the DSM-II had to do with some political activist. Further research afterwards was introduced to conclude that not only did homosexuality have a genetic component, the similitude of sexual orientation to that of heterosexual men.

Koshergrl you are grossly misinformed and don't know what you're talking about. You are googling facts and posting them here as confirmation bias.


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## koshergrl (Oct 16, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
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> > Aristotle said:
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Your statements are foolish. I know his views were criticized and dismissed...much later. But not before the APA lauded them and cited them to justify their decision to remove homosexuality as a mental disorder.


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## Aristotle (Oct 16, 2012)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Aristotle said:
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Remember what? Dude I can most certainly know you didn't study neuroscience nor do you understand brain development. You're brain structures do not "grow" they replace old cells and you develop new and constant connections in the brain. Throughout your life your hypothalamus doesn't grow larger its volume comes to a peak. Did you even look at the provided abstract? The abstract was not talking about dead homosexual patients, it was looking at the basic structures between homosexuals and pedophiles. Lety me guess, the abstract is too difficult for you to read?


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## koshergrl (Oct 16, 2012)

"Just as influential in the APA's decision were the research studies on homosexuality of the 1940's and 1950's. Alfred Kinsey's and colleagues' study on male and female sexuality marked the beginning of a cultural shift away from the view of homosexuality as pathology and toward viewing it as a normal variant of human sexuality. Kinsey had criticized scientists' tendency to represent homosexuals and heterosexuals as "inherently different types of individuals." Therefore, he introduced a 0 to 6 scale to classify sexual behavior or fantasy from "exclusively heterosexual" to "exclusively homosexual" (the "Kinsey Scale"). The "Kinsey Reports" found that 37% of males and 13% of females had at least some overt homosexual experience to the point of orgasm; furthermore, 10% of males were more or less exclusively homosexual and 8% of males were exclusively homosexual for at least three years between the ages of 16 and 55. This is where the frequently quoted "10%" figure comes from. 2-6% of women reported more or less exclusively homosexual experience or response. A more modest 4% of males and 1-3% of females had been exclusively homosexual after the onset of adolescence until the time of the interview. "

LGBT Mental Health Syllabus


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## Quantum Windbag (Oct 16, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
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> > Aristotle said:
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Did I say I studied neuroscience? When did you get a degree in it, I thought you said you are a researcher. 

I believe what I said is that studies have proven that meditation changes brain structure. I have an NIH study to back that up.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc1361002/

I believe I also said that I remember when that study came out, and that some people wondered about the cause/effect link between the the structure of the brain and behavior. Until we examine the brains of children and compare them to their brains as adults, something that has not yet happened, there is no way to know if the behavior shapes the brain or if the brain shapes behavior.

Instead of simply blathering the next time you reply you might want to take my advice and stop looking for an answer, and simply gather all the evidence.


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## Aristotle (Oct 16, 2012)

quantum windbag said:


> aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > quantum windbag said:
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*xxxxxxx*


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## koshergrl (Oct 16, 2012)

*xxxxxxx*


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## Wroberson (Oct 29, 2012)

According to the Sex Offender Database there are 5 sex offenders in the town where I live.

Yes, these people need to be monitored and the people of the community need to be aware.


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## Noomi (Oct 29, 2012)

jillian said:


> jwoodie said:
> 
> 
> > I think you have it backwards:  Just as recovering alcoholics admit that they are not "currently" drinking, pedophiles need to remember their addiction in order to keep it under control.  That being said, the term "sex offender" is probably too broadly used in today's hypersensitive culture.
> ...



I think its possible to keep it under control. Just like it is possible to quit smoking, or taking drugs. Its hard, but you can do it. If you end up molesting a child, your willpower has failed you.


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## koshergrl (Oct 29, 2012)

No, it's not possible to keep it under control. Which is why pedos must be closely monitored and clearly identified as what they are.


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## Noomi (Oct 29, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> No, it's not possible to keep it under control. Which is why pedos must be closely monitored and clearly identified as what they are.



Of course they should be monitored, even after being released from prison, but I imagine that there are thousands of potential pedophiles out there right now who have not acted on their impulses.


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## koshergrl (Oct 29, 2012)

You would be wrong.


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## Noomi (Oct 29, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> You would be wrong.



You have no evidence of your claims.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Oct 29, 2012)

Certain types of sex offenders should be absolved of the stigma. In many cases, we aren't differentiating between child molesters and people who have sex in public. To me, that's wrong.


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## Colin (Oct 29, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> I'm most referring to those who suffer from pedophelia (yes its a diagnosable paychiatric disorder) those who have done both group and personal therapy who have done away (or presumably so) with their sexual interest in prepubescent children.
> 
> My question is twofold:
> 
> ...



There are few things lower or more depraved than sexual molestation of children. No, pedophiles do not deserve absolution from society. In my view they should be surgically castrated and when they are released into the community they should be named and shamed and their location made public.


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## koshergrl (Oct 29, 2012)

Noomi said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > You would be wrong.
> ...



Professionals who study and work with child molesters agree, there is no reason to assume they will not act on impulses if they think they will get away with it. That information has been posted, you've seen it. If you want to pretend you haven't, that's fine.  

"According to the U. S. Department of Justice Bureau of Justice  Statistics, on any given day there are approximately 234,000 sex  offenders who were convicted of rape or sexual assault and are in the  custody or control of correction agencies. Consider the following  statistics: 
* The median age of the victims of convicted sex offenders was less than 13 years old. 
*  Approximately 24% of those offenders confined for rape and 19% of those  imprisoned for sexual assault had been on parole or probation at the  time of the crime. 
 * In one year alone, approximately 4,300 child molesters in 15 states were released from imprisonment. 
*  Of the 4,300 child molesters released, approximately 3.3% were  rearrested within three years for another sex offense against a child. " 

Sex Offender Statistics - Child Molester Statistics


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## koshergrl (Oct 29, 2012)

I'm curious...are you proposing we lighten sentences for those who prey upon children based on you're belief there are a lot of undiagnosed pedophiles who don't act on their impulses? How does that reasoning work? Do you think those who have already acted on the impulse to harm children should have their slate washed clean, even though everybody who works with them says adamantly they continue to be a threat to children as long as they're alive?


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## High_Gravity (Oct 29, 2012)

Welcome back KG!


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## Nightson (Oct 29, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> I'm most referring to those who suffer from pedophelia (yes its a diagnosable paychiatric disorder) those who have done both group and personal therapy who have done away (or presumably so) with their sexual interest in prepubescent children.
> 
> My question is twofold:
> 
> ...




As a parent of children ranging in age from five to sixteen, I earnestly believe in capital punishment for convicted pedophiles. I absolutely do not believe an individual who has committed a sex crime against a child is a salvageable human being. 

1.) No. A person does not "suffer" from pedophilia. He or she is a biomechanical machine with a sole function and motivation: to use children to sate their insatiable desires. The pedophile is not a victim, but a victimizer of those who innately trust and seek haven in the authority of most adults. Children tend to trust most adults in their immediate sphere of existence. This is the foremost weakness the pedophile exploits. Absolution...religious or otherwise is not possible in my opinion. I do not believe in the contemporary philosophy of learning to live with the evil you have done...regarding the acts of the pedophile in particular. Never forgive, never forget.

2.) One who has indelibly physically and mentally rent a child's existence for personal pleasure need not worry about recovery--they ought to be left to look over their shoulders for the rest of their lives. This johnny come lately idea that has penetrated the morality of our society--this belief that one ought to be able to victimize and inflict hell on another person and later learn to live with it and then somehow reintegrate into society as a productive member, is purely amoral and wrong. Even the most liberal among us know it. If we as parents, as Americans do not do everything in our power to protect society's most innocent, said society needs to collapse. This question is alarming.


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## koshergrl (Oct 29, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Certain types of sex offenders should be absolved of the stigma. In many cases, we aren't differentiating between child molesters and people who have sex in public. To me, that's wrong.


 
Mandatory sentencing is always a bad idea.

But really, we're talking about pedophiles...not all sex offenders. The OP and Noom are seeking to protect pedophiles from stigma.


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## AmyNation (Oct 29, 2012)

Noomi said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > No, it's not possible to keep it under control. Which is why pedos must be closely monitored and clearly identified as what they are.
> ...



Pedophilia is not like smoking. The evidence of how often offenders reoffend shows that stopping is not simply a willpower issue.


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## Nightson (Oct 29, 2012)

Noomi said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > jwoodie said:
> ...



I am afraid that willpower is a less than acceptable barrier between a pedophile's urges and the safety of our children. I fail to see the validity, either logical or moral in an argument for trusting the freewill of an individual who has preyed on a child. I've known a few addicts who claimed to be on or off the wizard's "magic" depending on whether or not evidence of their true disposition was readily visible. Equating the consequences of falling off the wagon to a pedophile assaulting another child is an extremely callous and dangerous comparison.


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## beagle9 (Oct 29, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> "
> Detailed documentation of how Alfred Kinsey (The Kinsey reports: 1948 and 1953), a pornography-addicted, sadomasochistic, bi/homosexual pedophile propagandist was able to launch the sexual revolution, reduce sex crime penalties and sabotage American sex law.
> ALEC explains how the states adopted Kinsey's bad data into law, penology and social issues, especially promoting its application in "sex education" and sex ed curricula.
> More specifically, Kinseyan law "revisers" ended our American Common Law sexual controls via:
> ...


Yes, and not only is this that you have very well written about a serious problem for America, but many things in our society have been reformed in ways that allow the downplaying of many things that are and will always be totally wrongheaded and wrong in our society, but why do they try and downplay these things ? Why was this done over time in America ? Is it that a generation was born amongst us over a period of time, that became wise over these things, and had evolved in an evil & devilish way ?  Much of this stuff is totally un-exceptable/bad/wrong, but somehow the devil has seperated the people from their common decency and their senses anymore, and therefore the reality of these things and their consequences afterwards are upon them, and these culprits/minions have duped many into playing along within this game of destruction, as he is known to all as one slick devil in which we can easily see now why there was no place for him in Heaven or for his kind of thinkers, and there never will be. It is written!

Just follow the trail backwards as to where it all began to develope, and then when it became toyed with in America, and then look at those who foolishly defend or protect these things in America today, in which is orchastrated by those who tried to ease this stuff upon the people over a long period of time now. Then follow it forward to the very culprits who still are trying to fool the people into subjecting themselves and their children to these things in which lead to very bad things down the road for them. They are alive and well in the world these demons, and we know who they are, but why can't we de-throne them for good if we know who they are ? Maybe not the whole world could we fix, but we can do better in our own part of it in which we have claimed as our part of it. The removal of God and prayer as is being attempted in America or is being done as we speak, is the final straw used by them, in which they hope to finally break the back of America in this attempt, and to send it all to Hell finally in which is the ultimate goal for them.


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## Dreamy (Oct 29, 2012)

This one person of society has to give a big NO. I can't give "absolution". They can take that up in the next world if they are a believer.


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## Wolfmoon (Oct 29, 2012)

They can&#8217;t be cured so put radio collars on them. The government should make it a law that sex offenders have to have a GPS device surgically implanted by a physician somewhere where they can&#8217;t dig it out. The GPS chip should have a maintenance program and be closely monitored. Make them sign an agreement to wear the chip in order to gain freedom. The sex offender should have to pay for the device and maintenance program for the rest of their lives in order to be free in society. Its either that or stricter laws to keep them off the streets and in prisons longer. 

.


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## koshergrl (Oct 29, 2012)

They would try to dig it out, too. 

Rapos. You won't ever meet a weirder or more depraved group.


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## beagle9 (Oct 29, 2012)

Wolfmoon said:


> They can&#8217;t be cured so put radio collars on them. The government should make it a law that sex offenders have to have a GPS device surgically implanted by a physician somewhere where they can&#8217;t dig it out. The GPS chip should have a maintenance program and be closely monitored. Make them sign an agreement to wear the chip in order to gain freedom. The sex offender should have to pay for the device and maintenance program for the rest of their lives in order to be free in society. Its either that or stricter laws to keep them off the streets and in prisons longer.
> 
> .


Good Idea, just like I always say "FREEDOM", rights and privileges are earned in America, and they should never be just a given", especially to a pedophile, rapist or etc. along these lines.


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## Noomi (Oct 30, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



I am not talking about reoffending. I think you are KG misunderstood me. I am speaking of those people who have urges but have NEVER acted on them. I think that once you act on them you pass the point of no return. Acting on your urges makes them harder to resist the next time.


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## Noomi (Oct 30, 2012)

Wolfmoon said:


> They cant be cured so put radio collars on them. The government should make it a law that sex offenders have to have a GPS device surgically implanted by a physician somewhere where they cant dig it out. The GPS chip should have a maintenance program and be closely monitored. Make them sign an agreement to wear the chip in order to gain freedom. The sex offender should have to pay for the device and maintenance program for the rest of their lives in order to be free in society. Its either that or stricter laws to keep them off the streets and in prisons longer.
> 
> .



As long as you did that for EVERY criminal, not just sex offenders.


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## koshergrl (Oct 30, 2012)

Why should every criminal be treated the same? Every crime is not the same. Thieves do not need to be monitored to make sure they aren't working at schools, for example, or hanging out at bowling alleys for the express purpose of grooming children.


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## koshergrl (Oct 30, 2012)

Those people are irrelevant, and they are not the subject of the thread. This thread is about whether or not pedophiles who have been caught should be *stigmatized* or identified. Why you have wandered off to talk weird stuff about people who have never acted on their urges, thus have never been identified as pedophiles in the first place, is beyond me. Obviously, people who have never acted on their pedophile urges (or whatever) can't be monitored as they haven't done anything illegal. Try to stick to the topic.


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## High_Gravity (Oct 30, 2012)

Wolfmoon said:


> They cant be cured so put radio collars on them. The government should make it a law that sex offenders have to have a GPS device surgically implanted by a physician somewhere where they cant dig it out. The GPS chip should have a maintenance program and be closely monitored. Make them sign an agreement to wear the chip in order to gain freedom. The sex offender should have to pay for the device and maintenance program for the rest of their lives in order to be free in society. Its either that or stricter laws to keep them off the streets and in prisons longer.
> 
> .



That whole ankle bracelet thing is already in place right now for criminals on house arrest and its a big joke, why do you think this would work for pedophiles? they just need to stay in jail anyways or in mental homes.


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## PaulS1950 (Oct 30, 2012)

I believe that pedophiles should be absolved of the stigma they earned when their victims are all dead from old age. The victims of these and other sex-related crimes bend a person beyond the breaking point and then want to live like a human being - not as long as their victims have to live with the memory of what was done to them. That would be an insult to the victims - a second crime against them. What a load of hogwash. If an offender is lucky they will be killed in prison by folks who hate what they did more than they hate what put them in prison. If an offender is unfortunate enough to make it out of prison (s)he should be reminded every day of the lives they have ruined. They should be tagged for life and tracked where ever they go. People should be notified when they are living close. If they get within 100 feet of a playground or school they should be arrested for getting too close to children. If they ever repeat offend they should suffer the death penalty. Just two lives affected by these predators is more than enough to qualify for termination.
The preceeding response was from my very emotional side having been molested at age 5 and then told by my father that I was going to hell for it. That was two crimes against me. I forgave my dad because it was just more than he could deal with but the guy who mollested me... I can't forgive him for anything he has done to others before or since me. I forgave him but it was for my mental health - not his.
I say let the jury be picked from none that haven't been mollested. Let the victims choose the penalty.


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## beagle9 (Oct 30, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Wolfmoon said:
> 
> 
> > They cant be cured so put radio collars on them. The government should make it a law that sex offenders have to have a GPS device surgically implanted by a physician somewhere where they cant dig it out. The GPS chip should have a maintenance program and be closely monitored. Make them sign an agreement to wear the chip in order to gain freedom. The sex offender should have to pay for the device and maintenance program for the rest of their lives in order to be free in society. Its either that or stricter laws to keep them off the streets and in prisons longer.
> ...


Oh so you are one of those ones that think sin is also equal to all sin equally, and it therefore should be treated as equal no matter eh ?

Typical liberal ideology fail.....Sorry bout that !


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## beagle9 (Oct 30, 2012)

PaulS1950 said:


> I believe that pedophiles should be absolved of the stigma they earned when their victims are all dead from old age. The victims of these and other sex-related crimes bend a person beyond the breaking point and then want to live like a human being - not as long as their victims have to live with the memory of what was done to them. That would be an insult to the victims - a second crime against them. What a load of hogwash. If an offender is lucky they will be killed in prison by folks who hate what they did more than they hate what put them in prison. If an offender is unfortunate enough to make it out of prison (s)he should be reminded every day of the lives they have ruined. They should be tagged for life and tracked where ever they go. People should be notified when they are living close. If they get within 100 feet of a playground or school they should be arrested for getting too close to children. If they ever repeat offend they should suffer the death penalty. Just two lives affected by these predators is more than enough to qualify for termination.
> The preceeding response was from my very emotional side having been molested at age 5 and then told by my father that I was going to hell for it. That was two crimes against me. I forgave my dad because it was just more than he could deal with but the guy who mollested me... I can't forgive him for anything he has done to others before or since me. I forgave him but it was for my mental health - not his.
> I say let the jury be picked from none that haven't been mollested. Let the victims choose the penalty.


A mark was placed on Cain in the Bible for murdering Abel his brother, and so it was that all the days of his life, he would be known by this mark.


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## whitehall (Oct 30, 2012)

I hate to say it but I don't see how the justice system could force people to register as sex offenders (or robbers or murderers) after they have paid their debt to society.


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## beagle9 (Oct 30, 2012)

whitehall said:


> I hate to say it but I don't see how the justice system could force people to register as sex offenders (or robbers or murderers) after they have paid their debt to society.


I don't hate to say it, you are wrong....


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## PaulS1950 (Oct 30, 2012)

How can a pedophile pay his "debt" to his victim?
How much jail time is worth the destruction of a persons ability to live a normal life?
How long does a memory last?
Society be damned! Sexual predators (including pedophiles) have a debt that can never be paid. Since keeping them in jail is not an option then let them try to live a normal life with the memory of what they did affecting the rest of their life the way it does the lives of their victims.


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## koshergrl (Oct 30, 2012)

Certain sex offenses, including rape and child rape, used to be capital offenses. Which means perps got the death penalty.

Thanks to the kinder, gentlers laws for sex offenders that were ushered in through the 70s-80s by liberals, that is no longer the case. So when you have sex offenders being spit back repeatedly into the free world, you have a problem. Because they DO re-offend, and they DO pose an ongoing threat to the safety of others, specifically, children.

They're lucky to be out. They won't ever repay their debt to society; lifelong registration as a sex offender is the judgement, and it's why they get to walk among us. They should be grateful, and so should those who defend their right to "not be reminded" of their crimes.


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## Politicalgeak (Oct 31, 2012)

To start, the classification system, at least in my state is completely flawed. Pulling up a "trusted" sex offender search online and yielding a result with a high level sex offender would naturally make me quite nervous. However, after working in the field of Criminal Defense Law I came to discover that the classification given to an offender is not based primarily upon the offense but on a brief assessment of about 12 qualifying factors could put a 19 year old engaging with a consenting under age girlfriend in the same category of a dangerous pedophile.

The fact that pedophilia is being compared to homosexuality is apples and oranges. I feel as though the differences are blatantly obvious but will explain my position. Homosexuality is a consensual act between two parties who are old enough and cognitively capable of choosing to engage in sexual conduct. Pedophilia involves sexual activity with someone who use not old enough to enter into such a rainfall commitment. The only time such lines would cross would be if the homosexual act involved pedophilia. In which case, that person's issue would lie in the attraction to a child not that he/se is a homosexual.


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## Noomi (Oct 31, 2012)

whitehall said:


> I hate to say it but I don't see how the justice system could force people to register as sex offenders (or robbers or murderers) after they have paid their debt to society.



I can see your point. Its like continuing to punish them long after their release from prison - especially as no other criminal has to do this.


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## Noomi (Oct 31, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Why should every criminal be treated the same? Every crime is not the same. Thieves do not need to be monitored to make sure they aren't working at schools, for example, or hanging out at bowling alleys for the express purpose of grooming children.



A thief should be monitored to ensure they are not breaking into another home. A murderer should be monitored to ensure they are not killing anyone.

Every criminal has the potential to go back to crime, just like pedophiles.


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## Dreamy (Oct 31, 2012)

Noomi said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Why should every criminal be treated the same? Every crime is not the same. Thieves do not need to be monitored to make sure they aren't working at schools, for example, or hanging out at bowling alleys for the express purpose of grooming children.
> ...



You are comparing being a thief of property to being a thief of childhoods? The same exact forces are behind each of those separate crimes in your mind? I most definitely disagree.

Also you would want all criminals monitored in the same manner and degree?


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## koshergrl (Oct 31, 2012)

Noomi said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Why should every criminal be treated the same? Every crime is not the same. Thieves do not need to be monitored to make sure they aren't working at schools, for example, or hanging out at bowling alleys for the express purpose of grooming children.
> ...



No, they don't. Pedophilia is unique in that pedophiles remain an active threat for their entire lives. People who commit other crimes can and do change and turn away from crime. Pedophilia is not just a crime, it's a disorder and they do not turn away from it. And it has the unique characteristic of being able to spread...children who are molested have a really good chance of becoming pedophiles themselves.


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## Noomi (Oct 31, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



I agree that pedophiles remain a potential threat after their release from prison, and I agree that it is a disorder. I don't agree that other criminals can 'turn away' from crime - what about a murderer, for example? They have a chance to kill again, and I am sure you don't want a convicted killer in the house next door, do you?

I also disagree that kids who are molested have a higher chance of becoming pedophiles themselves. If that was true, why don't we do more to help those abused children, so to prevent them from becoming pedophiles?


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## Noomi (Oct 31, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



A thief of property will break in to your home, ransack your house and steal your belongings. I think that they should be monitored to ensure they don't do the same again, don't you?


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## AmyNation (Oct 31, 2012)

Noomi said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Noomi said:
> ...



I really dislike agreeing with KG, but when she's right, she's right.

No other crime has a similar rate of reoffending of sex crimes. It's apples to oranges.

As to molested children turning into pedophiles, that's a fact. An overwhelming majority of pedophiles were molested as children.


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## Dreamy (Oct 31, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > Noomi said:
> ...


 
They often are when released from prison when they are placed on probation.

I think thieves can reform and never think about stealing again. I do not think pedophiles can do the same.


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## Nightson (Nov 1, 2012)

Noomi said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Noomi said:
> ...




Irregardless of the splitting of hairs specific to classification and identification of various acts deemed "criminal" by varying societies, the imminent, horrifying threat the pedophile presents to our children cannot rationally be compared to either the theft of property or the destruction of the same. The cauldron of rational debate entered into by diverse and broad minds who contribute a torrent of differing opinion is the best hope of any society, such as the many different voices on this topic. That said, when such a threat has been identified as that posed by men and women who assault our children for personal pleasure, there can be no other action than to do all that can be done to protect those who cannot protect themselves...those who have no choice but to trust the adults in their lives. We should as a society readily be prepared to engage in action and to any extreme to ensure the safety of our children. To do less, to forgive this brand of malevolence is to apologize before the act for the ruination of a child's life.


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## Noomi (Nov 1, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> > Dreamy said:
> ...



Pedophiles have urges much like homosexuals. If a homosexual can refrain from acting upon their desires, why couldn't a pedophile?

I have more faith in people than you, it would seem.


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## sakinago (Nov 2, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Certain sex offenses, including rape and child rape, used to be capital offenses. Which means perps got the death penalty.
> 
> Thanks to the kinder, gentlers laws for sex offenders that were ushered in through the 70s-80s by liberals, that is no longer the case. So when you have sex offenders being spit back repeatedly into the free world, you have a problem. Because they DO re-offend, and they DO pose an ongoing threat to the safety of others, specifically, children.
> 
> They're lucky to be out. They won't ever repay their debt to society; lifelong registration as a sex offender is the judgement, and it's why they get to walk among us. They should be grateful, and so should those who defend their right to "not be reminded" of their crimes.



I agree that certain sex offenses like rape, whether child or adult, should be capitol offenses and we should just lock them away for life. That way no one has to worry about them. Especially the homosexual ones, I am saying this not as a homophobe, but b/c they are the most dangerous and will do anything in the power to re-offend. 

But if you look closely at the registration, there are a ton of people out there who arn't pedophiles, never intended or commited rape, but are still registered as sex offenders. Take for instance the Romeo and Juliet cases (19 year old boy with a 16 year old girl), there are a ton of those cases out there. Was that 19 year old boy an idiot...yes, is he a danger to society...Id say no. The problem is, is that it is so hard to catch the actual pedophiles out there because most of them do it in the family, I think its like 80% molestation or rape cases happen in the family, and the victims don't come forward, or theres no physical evidence. Its actually probably a higher percentage than that since there are probably a lot of kids that never come forward. And then you have cases like the Penn State case where a pedophile who knows how to manipulate and get away with it, rapes kids for 40 years before hes finally brought to justice. Guys like sandusky know what theyre doing and how to get away with it. The only way to protect your kids from this is to educate them, and yourselves. I think the government tries to make up for this by broadening the law to include people who are easier to convict...but are not really threats to society. I hear they are trying to include prostitutes, which to me is ridiculous, Im sorry but I dont view them as a threat to kids and its not gonna stop them from standing on the corner. 

We need a tiered system of registration, the dangerous ones, or the potential dangers should be known to the rest of society and be locked away for a very long time. The ones who show signs that are concerning should be should be monitored  and put on another registration that is set aside for jobs at hospitals, schools, day cares, boy scouts, churches, etc. to let those institutions know to disqualify them for a job. I say this because those who show concerning signs, are not going to re-offend, those are usually the people who got drunk at a bar and grabbed someones ass or something, or the Romeo and Juliet cases. I think theyre idiots, not really dangers to society 

Bottom line, those actual pedophiles out there do deserve what they get and more. If they want to be released back into society after serving a lengthy sentence they should be chemical sterilized so they have no sexual drive. However, I think there are plenty of people who dont deserve to register as a sex offenders, and there are plenty of people who do but dont get caught until after many years of abuse. Im not going to really rely on Megans Law to protect my kids, I think its pretty close to useless. You got to educate your kids and yourself, thats the best way to protect them.


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## koshergrl (Nov 2, 2012)

Like I said, that all has to do with mandatory sentencing. Mandatory sentencing is a travesty and should never have happened.

Oh well, you can't fail to effectively monitor the dangerous sex offenders just because you have a crap law that means some people who aren't dangerous are being monitored, too.

In the old days it was the same..you got caught messing around with someone you shouldn't be messing around with, you  might spend some times in the stocks...even if you weren't a pervert.


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## freedombecki (Nov 2, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > jwoodie said:
> ...


Many of schizophrenic sufferers wind up in prison for homicide because, being mentally ill, they determined they could get by without medication, then determined their victim or victims would get them if they didn't put up lethal self-defense. 

Pedophilia has an ick factor as the public feels that the act of abusing someone who is smaller and weaker than the perpetrator is craven. The damage of abuse follows the child victim for life and can result in the victim also becoming a perpetrator unless he or she becomes empowered with a cause of holding this criminally insane act against the perpetrator as cathartic to his unseen pain.


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## sakinago (Nov 2, 2012)

freedombecki said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



Im sorry, have you ever seen schizophrenia? There is maybe a couple serial killers out there that *may* have been schizophrenic, other than that shcizophrenia is terrible debilitating disease and its the line of thinking that you just used that gives it such a terrible stigma. Most cases of schizophrenia are that of the catatonic type, not the paranoid type everyone thinks of, and 90% of the paranoid are *completely* harmless. Its terrible to watch young men and women who had lived completely normal lives before slip into schizophrenia and never live a normal life again. They know something is wrong with their brain, but there is nothing they can do about it. Your line of thinking about schizophrenia is like me saying that chemo patients are scary looking because they're bald. I would honestly rather have cancer than schizophrenia. 

There is no need to compare the schizophrenic to pedophiles, those who suffer from schizophrenia do not deserve it.

That being said, it seems like you really do not have a background in psychology, I have some...not much. But I do know that pretty much the only pedophiles you really need to worry about are the homosexual ones who gain or acquire some anti-social qualities, and the few heterosexual ones who have already had a lot of anti-social qualities. Both of which you wouldn't really be able to tell or know they are pedophiles until they've been caught  after years of abuse. This is because of the anti-social qualities and knowing how to manipulate people. I think sex offender registration is about as useful as "duck and cover" for a nuclear attack. We're not catching very many actual pedophiles until after years of abuse, and we arn't really slowing them down. For some reason the government wants to talk about sex offender registration instead of teaching preventative measures to children as simple as a little bit of education. I dont understand why no one is really concerned about preventing pedophiles from attacking, and more concerned about punishing them afterwards.


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## Nightson (Nov 2, 2012)

sakinago said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...




The last sentence of your last paragraph really speaks to the primary essence of the matter. That said, I think many Americans might misinterpret your meaning to read as acceptance of a condition that is universally loathed, as an illness which can be treated, even cured. In my opinion punishment and prevention are equally important as tools available to protect  our children. Punishment however, when it is time spent behind bars, is definitely not an effective solution as many cases have demonstrated an extremely high rate of recidivism. Being a parent makes me biased toward punishment, but also forces me into a practice of personal prevention i.e. taking steps to lower the risk to my own children. 

What means of preventing a pedophile from attacking in the first place do you suggest?


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## freedombecki (Nov 2, 2012)

sakinago said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...


*Im sorry, have you ever seen schizophrenia?*

Yes. But you do not need to be sorry.

*There is no need to compare the schizophrenic to pedophiles, those who suffer from schizophrenia do not deserve it.*

I made no comparison between the two illnesses. Firstly, I placed the two topics in separate paragraphs to keep them separated. Secondly, I was assuming people who are reading this thread have a working vocabulary such that they may not need a dictionary for every word I type out. People with strong vocabularies would know I did not call one disease the other nor even make a comparison.

In our system of justice, people are incarcerated all the time whose state laws say mentally ill people cannot go to trial. If the matter is set before a jury, anything goes. If their state has mental institutions that do not lock people up, jurors are going to put away a mother who just ate 5 babies to save them from the devil behind bars rather than in Sunflower Estates Mental Care Facility that releases people after taking 30 days of depression meds.

I'm not making a judgment. I'm just describing what happens to the ill person.

No jury will allow a pedophile to roam the streets after being locked up for 2 years for rearranging an infant's vagina in a rape.

Separate paragraph

No jury will allow a schizophrenia sufferer who dismembered three dozen couples kissing in a car for 3 years because his mother told him that was "bad" when he was 10 years old to go to the state funnyfarm that releases "well" people who responded to their medications after 6 months without another murder.

Get it?


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## sakinago (Nov 3, 2012)

freedombecki said:


> sakinago said:
> 
> 
> > freedombecki said:
> ...



Your still comparing apples and oranges, not only concerning the mental illness, but also our court system coupled with healthcare. Juries do not decide when a mentally ill person can roam the streets again, as if someone who requires medication is some sort of risk to society. These judgement calls are made by Judges and by a team of social workers , md's, psychologist, social and case workers.


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## P@triot (Nov 3, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> I'm most referring to those who suffer from pedophelia (yes its a diagnosable paychiatric disorder) those who have done both group and personal therapy who have done away (or presumably so) with their sexual interest in prepubescent children.
> 
> My question is twofold:
> 
> ...



I honestly find it horrifying that _anyone_ would pose this question.

1.) The sick fucking bastards that engage in any form of sex offense (pedophile, rapist, etc.) cannot be "reformed" or "cured" and that is a proven fact.

2.) Nobody should be forgiven for such atrocities. To hurt a child or a woman in such a profound fashion is unforgivable and these sick S.O.B.'s should be mercilessly hounded until they make their way from this planet and into hell where they belong.


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## PaulS1950 (Nov 4, 2012)

Let God be the judge, the executioner is just the facilitator.


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## nodoginnafight (Nov 6, 2012)

The reason that you don't administer the death penalty to sexual offenders is because it saves many lives. If a sexual offender is facing the death penalty anyway, what is the detrerrent to killing the only witness?


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## Noomi (Nov 7, 2012)

nodoginnafight said:


> The reason that you don't administer the death penalty to sexual offenders is because it saves many lives. If a sexual offender is facing the death penalty anyway, what is the detrerrent to killing the only witness?



You are correct, but some people refuse to hear that logic.


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## Nightson (Nov 7, 2012)

Noomi said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > The reason that you don't administer the death penalty to sexual offenders is because it saves many lives. If a sexual offender is facing the death penalty anyway, what is the detrerrent to killing the only witness?
> ...




By that measure, perhaps a potential murderer might spare his first victim's life--without fear of the possibility of facing capital punishment, thus allowing said victim to live. Yes, society ought to reward the sex offender, with a lesser punishment so he or she stops at _just_ rape. This idea is an example of the most heinous brand of apologist sophistry for one of the most vicious kinds of real world savagery. Whatever the intention, choose your society, the death penalty has never functioned as a foolproof deterrent. The death penalty is a punishment. One hundred percent effective, speaking to the prevention of recidivism--each and every time it has been administered.


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## koshergrl (Nov 9, 2012)

Bingo. Lessening punishment does not lead to LESS crime. That's ridiculous.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 9, 2012)

In a culture like ours, which is becoming more degenerate wouldn't you expect that sex offenders be treated with more leniency?   We could completely eliminate the crime of rape with the  use of a simple redefinition, like "unconsented couplling" or "unauthorized penetration".


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## koshergrl (Nov 9, 2012)

Exactly.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 9, 2012)

More klllers murder their victims to keep from going to prison for a long time.    That's what leave no witnesses mean.   A murderer is not going to show mercy to a victim in order to avoid the death penalty.   They will kill them to avoid a life sentence though.


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## 4Horsemen (Nov 9, 2012)

I've always been under the firm belief that a rapists and other sex offenders should be castrated for their crimes. No jail time....just snip snip and send them home to go blow their own brains out smothered in guilt and no penis. save that tax money for something more important.  

I have ZERO TOLERANCE for scumbags like that . I could never be a Warden. I would secretly get rid of a lot assholes in the penal system.


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## koshergrl (Nov 9, 2012)

Sadly, they don't need their penises to abuse children.

Many pedophiles have multiple sexual issues. Lacking a penis would just be one more.


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## 4Horsemen (Nov 9, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Sadly, they don't need their penises to abuse children.
> 
> Many pedophiles have multiple sexual issues. Lacking a penis would just be one more.



I was just using the penis as a reference. but even if they use their hands and no penis, just hands....then chop chop...off with the hands and let him go home and figure out how to fall on that butcher knife now that he has no more hands and his life is over. 

I want to inflict the most suffering as humanly possible for what they do.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 9, 2012)

4Horsemen said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Sadly, they don't need their penises to abuse children.
> ...



If they don't have hands, they'll use hooks.


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## 4Horsemen (Nov 9, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> 4Horsemen said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



and people who see Captain Hook in the streets will immediately report him...lol...

He won't be able to function socially anymore. might as welll fall on that butcher knife.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 9, 2012)

Germany tried castration as a way to keep multiple time child sex abusers out of prison.   It didn't work.  Not only did it not work, but the children were tortured for much longer periods of time.    Sex crimes happen in the head.   A lobotomy is the only thing that is effective.


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## 4Horsemen (Nov 9, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Germany tried castration as a way to keep multiple time child sex abusers out of prison.   It didn't work.  Not only did it not work, but the children were tortured for much longer periods of time.    Sex crimes happen in the head.   A lobotomy is the only thing that is effective.



why stop at a lobotomy. just behead them. nip it in the medulla bud.


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## sakinago (Nov 10, 2012)

4Horsemen said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Germany tried castration as a way to keep multiple time child sex abusers out of prison.   It didn't work.  Not only did it not work, but the children were tortured for much longer periods of time.    Sex crimes happen in the head.   A lobotomy is the only thing that is effective.
> ...



Depo primevera, is a birth control shot for women, when given to men it is a form chemical castration, and depletes their libido. I believe they do give it to some pedophiles in some cases, but I think after they've done their time in jail I think Depo should be given to all pedophiles. You can try to argue about the ethics of punishing them after they've done their time but 1# who are they (pedophiles) to argue ethics with us, and try to manipulate ethics to their own gain. #2 Just like gun ownership is a right, when you are a felon you forefit that right; so when you prove that you are a pedophile, you forefit your right to sex. 

I think it is a little harsh to execute because pedophilia is a mental illness. Its a sexual deviance just like homosexuality, but instead of being attracted the same sex it is either young boys or girls. I still think those sex crimes are sick, and you have to have some sort of anti-social personality to commit it, and I think since they cant handle their urges, chemical castration is plenty fair... and the pedophiles should want to get it done to themselves. 

I do think the law goes after too many people who arn't pedophiles, and rapist's and I think that it has to be modified or changed.


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## koshergrl (Nov 10, 2012)

Depo is a shot that can be ordered for certain sex offenders. I worked with a violent sex offender who was court ordered to take it every month or whatever it was. 

Lowers libido, but it doesn't make them safe. Sex offenders tend to just keep pushing the violence higher and higher as it becomes more difficult for them to get aroused anyway...not being able to get a woody just means they will try harder, in some cases.


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## sakinago (Nov 10, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Depo is a shot that can be ordered for certain sex offenders. I worked with a violent sex offender who was court ordered to take it every month or whatever it was.
> 
> Lowers libido, but it doesn't make them safe. Sex offenders tend to just keep pushing the violence higher and higher as it becomes more difficult for them to get aroused anyway...not being able to get a woody just means they will try harder, in some cases.



Im pretty sure thats not how it works. Maybe in a very limited cases of those who are severe anti-social with a concentration of some form of sexual based violence, which is the profile of a serial killer like Jeffry dhamer, whose going to be locked away for life anyway, and you have maybe one of these every decade in the entire united states. Look pedophiles, just like homosexuals, havn't all of a sudden popped up in the last 30 years. They've been around as long as ancient history. It just that they 9 times out of 10 do it within the family, and back then you did not talk about it. You covered it up, and you still see that in our culture today, look at Joe paterno recently. I don't think punishing them after they have already commited years of abuse is our only answer. It does nothing to prevent further attacks. I do think Depo coupled with supervision is a good solution to prevent the ones we have already caught from commiting. But we need to focus on changing our culture to prevent new attacks. Pedophiles are not going to go away because of a list we make. We need to educate kids and parents on what to do when sexual advances are made. Jerry Sandusky got away with at least 40 years of sexual abuse, the only reason was no one came forward, and the few who did got covered up. This is what we need to change, and it irks the hell out of me that this is what no one is talking about. There are many victims out there who try to deal with their memories on their own, which usually leads to some sort of self medication. Look at a drug and alcohol rehab, if you interview the women there, half of them will tell you they were sexually abused as a child. This is terrible, and they should not feel embarrassed or afraid to go into treatment because of someone that abused them when they were a kid. This is the culture we need to change so we can prevent further attacks from happening, to quickly catch those who still commit attacks, and to get the proper treatment to the victims so they don't wind up wasting half of their life on drinking away their memories. Megans law is not the answer, changing our culture and education is.


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## koshergrl (Nov 11, 2012)

Yeah, well that is how it works, and you don't know what you're talking about.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 11, 2012)

The problem with the left is that they are convinced that the evil in the world can be dealt with by the proper application of the right kind of therapy.


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## koshergrl (Nov 11, 2012)

And they seem to think it's the responsibility of children to identify and correctly channel sexual advances.

It's not. I'm not teaching my children how to recognize grooming behavior, because to a kid, the same behavior in a different person is loving kindness. It is my job to recognize grooming, not theirs...and it is the job of the judicial system to punish sex offenders, and protect the population from them.


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## sakinago (Nov 12, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Yeah, well that is how it works, and you don't know what you're talking about.



Yea actually I do. I would like to see the stats claiming that depo makes pedophiles more violent. I've heard nothing but otherwise. And it also logically makes sense that someone without a sex drive, who is being supervised, is not very likely to re-offend. 

And I never said that it was the childs job to recognize grooming or sexual advances. But you can not deny that too many children out there are too afraid to speak up when it does happen. Or that there are too many adults who havn't educated themselves on how to prevent these attacks from happening, recognize grooming, or the signs that their child might be getting abused. I.E. when a kid says they do not want to go to uncle so-and-so's house, and the parents just assume that it is because that uncle isn't fun.  I do think that when your kids reach a certain level of cognitive thinking that while it might be an awkward conversation, it is important to teach them to recognize the signs of grooming, and advances, and how to react when they happen. I mean why would you not do everything in your power to protect your kids from one of the most heinous crimes that can be done to them? I just think that too many people rely on the megans law or whatever its called in your state to protect their kids. Pedophiles are not going to go away, but you can educate yourselves and your kids to make sure: A it does not happen to them or B. if it does you can stop the abuse right there in its tracks. Too many kids out there suffer the abuse for years, this is what we need to change...but no one seems to be concerned with this. 

Think about it this way. What if we treated those who are HIV +, like we do our sex offenders. (I am not comparing pedophiles to AIDS patients, just using an example on how we changed our thinking). When AIDS was discovered, there were a lot of people who wanted those who were HIV + to be required to wear a bracelet or something disclosing to the public (especially to the medical community) that they were HIV+. The medical community was very worried that they were going to become HIV+, because they were the ones handling the biohazardous blood. Instead, the medical community decided to treat everyone as if they had AIDS. Not only did this prevent them from becoming HIV+ from the ones we know about, it also prevented them from becoming HIV+ from the ones who didn't know they were (which was a lot), and also prevented them from catching other blood-borne illness's like Hep-c. Right now we are just catching the pedophiles after they've been abusing for years, but not really doing anything to prevent new attacks, or to make the abuse a 1 time deal.

Is what I am saying making sense, or am I just taking crazy pills. I just don't see how people could say that what we are doing to protect our kids is enough. *NO IT ISN'T*. We are just spraying buckshot around hoping we catch a pedophile every once in a while, when we could be using a sniper rifle and almost put an end to the terrible abuse we see everyday. *Why would you not want to do everything in your power to protect your kids?*


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## koshergrl (Nov 12, 2012)

I don't need to read your entire post, I read as far as "proof that depo makes"...

I never said that depo makes sex offenders more violent. I said that sex offenders often increase the violence of their attacks as they become more inured to the thrill of what they're doing.

Two. Different. Things. 

So really there's no point in ready your entire post. When someone is so wrong right off the bat, I generally stop right there.


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## koshergrl (Nov 12, 2012)

I know how to protect our children from sex offenders. I've been responsible for both community safety and pedo safety, I've monitored sex offenders, taken them to their court appearances and to the clinic for depos, and I've developed life plans meant to take into consideration both the safety of the community and life fulfillment of the pedophile. I know how to identify and "catch" pedophiles, I know what behaviors to watch for, and I know how to make sure children are safe from them. And the way you do that is you keep them separated.


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## sakinago (Nov 12, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> I don't need to read your entire post, I read as far as "proof that depo makes"...
> 
> I never said that depo makes sex offenders more violent. I said that sex offenders often increase the violence of their attacks as they become more inured to the thrill of what they're doing.
> 
> ...



I am sure you did read it and found some truth to what I was saying but didn't want to admit it...why else would you need keep redundantly repeating (ironically redundant)  that you didn't need to read it? But if you really did not read it, please go back and do so, and show me where I am wrong. I do think what I am talking about is a very important issue that we all need to pay more attention too. I would honestly appreciate some feedback on it.

"sex offenders *often increase the violence* of their attacks as they become more inured to the thrill of what they're doing."

So your are not referring to the efficacy of Depo, but stating that it can in some cases make them more violent? I honestly don't see that big of a difference, and anyway, medication is all about safety and efficacy, and I dont understand why you wouldn't want to talk about that. I would still like to see the studies and how it relates to the Depo shot. Statin's can cause damage to the heart...but the doc still wants you to take them because in most cases they're going to do a lot of good.


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## sakinago (Nov 12, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> I know how to protect our children from sex offenders. I've been responsible for both community safety and pedo safety, I've monitored sex offenders, taken them to their court appearances and to the clinic for depos, and I've developed life plans meant to take into consideration both the safety of the community and life fulfillment of the pedophile. I know how to identify and "catch" pedophiles, I know what behaviors to watch for, and I know how to make sure children are safe from them. And the way you do that is you keep them separated.



Well you sound like some sort of correctional officer to me. I am sure your job is hard and at times frustrating working with the people you do. I have worked with a couple of you as a lab tech at a hospital for 2 years, mostly because the home drug test kits you guys give that look for anti-human anti-bodies are not the most effective (work good), but don't take into account urine dilution, niacin, etc. I have also done blood work on a couple of the sex offenders taking depo, making sure they took it and their clotting times are at a therapeutic level.  I've heard nothing but good things about the Depo treatment, I am sure the sex offenders are against it but who cares. That being said, parole only last a certain ammount of time, what happens when they get off of parole and supervision, kind of sounds like they can do almost whatever they want. And it seems to me like even when they're on supervision, it varies from county to county, or at least state to state. One area might be more lax than the other. 

But again, please read what I wrote earlier. I would like to have your view on it.


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## koshergrl (Nov 12, 2012)

I am not a correctional officer and never have been. Correctional officers don't write out life plans, testify in court, or communicate with therapists and doctors about their clients.


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## Quantum Windbag (Nov 12, 2012)

Noomi said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Why should every criminal be treated the same? Every crime is not the same. Thieves do not need to be monitored to make sure they aren't working at schools, for example, or hanging out at bowling alleys for the express purpose of grooming children.
> ...



Every person on Earth has the potential to commit a crime, maybe the government should just monitor everyone.


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## Quantum Windbag (Nov 12, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > Noomi said:
> ...



Go to an AA meeting sometime, you will learn that no one is safe.


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## Noomi (Nov 12, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> I know how to protect our children from sex offenders. I've been responsible for both community safety and pedo safety, I've monitored sex offenders, taken them to their court appearances and to the clinic for depos, and I've developed life plans meant to take into consideration both the safety of the community and life fulfillment of the pedophile. I know how to identify and "catch" pedophiles, I know what behaviors to watch for, and I know how to make sure children are safe from them. And the way you do that is you keep them separated.



Since you have experience with this kind of thing, I am inclined to trust you know what you are talking about.

But I can't ignore one thing - and that is, that everyone deserves a second chance, and that these people, with the right support, can control their urges. Maybe it was just how I was raised, but its something I truly believe.


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## sakinago (Nov 13, 2012)

sakinago said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, well that is how it works, and you don't know what you're talking about.
> ...



I just wanna hear people feedback on the above thoughts. I dont know why everyone is not having this conversation, because what were doing is clearly not enough. Its like celebrating when we've gotten the terrorist after he made a terrorist attack, when some simple steps to prevent him could have been taken.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 13, 2012)

Noomi said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > I know how to protect our children from sex offenders. I've been responsible for both community safety and pedo safety, I've monitored sex offenders, taken them to their court appearances and to the clinic for depos, and I've developed life plans meant to take into consideration both the safety of the community and life fulfillment of the pedophile. I know how to identify and "catch" pedophiles, I know what behaviors to watch for, and I know how to make sure children are safe from them. And the way you do that is you keep them separated.
> ...



No they can't control their urges because they aren't urges.  It's not like passing up that bag of M&Ms because you are on a diet.   What pedophiles have is a compulsion, not an urge.


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## sakinago (Nov 13, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



It all depends, the homosexual pedophiles... yes, they do have compulsions and will re-offend the first chance they get. I think they should be required to take depo and be under supervision (if not in prison for life). Then there is a smaller population of hetero ones that are just as dangerous. But most hetero will  keep it in the family or someone that they are very close to. But again, these guys are harder to catch because of how they manipulate. I think we try to make up for it by going after people who are not dangers to society, and say "see we convicted this many sex offenders, look how we are keeping everyone safe." I mean no one is taking a good look at the problem we have on our hands, and trying to take real steps to solve it.


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## uscitizen (Nov 13, 2012)

Should sex offenders be absolved from public stigma? 

the ones with minor offenses should.
Such as the guy who took a leak behind his barn and some woman with 2 children saw him.
These things can be grouped with the serious sex offenders on the offenders registry.


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## sakinago (Nov 13, 2012)

uscitizen said:


> Should sex offenders be absolved from public stigma?
> 
> the ones with minor offenses should.
> Such as the guy who took a leak behind his barn and some woman with 2 children saw him.
> These things can be grouped with the serious sex offenders on the offenders registry.



Yea thats what I am talking about. The real ones are harder to catch, so they go after those guys to placate the people so they think they're being protected.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 13, 2012)

sakinago said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Noomi said:
> ...



In Germany they tried chemical castration and found that the compulsion has very little to do with sex.   Sexual offenses occur in the head.   If deprived of a sexual method of achieving their goal, they will just change methods.   They will torture, they will use penetration by object.   They want to see fear and pain because it gives them power and power is what they want, not sex.   Sex is just one way to get that power.  

William Bonin killed over 30 young boys in California in the 80s.   At first he raped them, but after awhile sex with these boys didn't give him the feeling that he was looking for.    Sex delayed the main event so he moved on to killing them and taking a long time to do it.   Torture was foreplay.

Of all the deviancies, sexual deviancy is the hardest to explain to the ordinary person.   They just won't accept it.


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## koshergrl (Nov 13, 2012)

Define a "minor" offense that would be committed by a pedophile, please. And explain why it is considered "minor".


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## sakinago (Nov 13, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> sakinago said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



Again you have to look at the *sampling* in the study, I wouldn't even call what you just posted a study. Are there going to be psychopaths out there that just want to torture by any means, yes... not much you can do about those few cases. People watch TV and think that are people everywhere like the people on criminal minds or something, but thats not the case. Ofcourse when you try chemical castration on people like that, they are going to find another way to get satisfied from a different type of torture.  You cant bring up one case and apply it to all pedophiles. Does depo coupled with supervision work with 90% of pedophiles, absolutely. 

As far as defining a minor offense, Romeo and Juliet cases where you have a 18-21 y/o male and a 15-16 y/o female, in a consenting relationship. Is that kid an idiot, yes, should he be punished, yea misdomeanor, community service, and fine. If he does it again then punish him like we do now. But I don't think these kids are dangers to society, and should have their life ruined because they did something stupid. Guys who were drunk and grabbed someones ass, inappropriate yes, dangers to society, no. Again slap them on the wrist, let them know if they do it again they will be punished to the full extent, and they probably will not re-offend. People who went streaking at a party, game, etc. Stupid yes, dangers to society, no. If people are allowed to protest nude, have nude bike ride fundraisers, then I dont think its fair that these people have their lives ruined because we want to catch as many "sex offenders" as possible. I hear they're going to add prostitutes to that list, are they a fop-ah to society, yes, are they a danger... not really. Some cases of porn, kids get addicted to porn and just like any other addiction need something stronger. This area is a little tricky, but I think we can properly screen them with polygraphs and other tests to make sure they are not attracted to children, if they arn't, give them a decent punishment, but again dont ruin their lives forever.  Guys like uscitizen said who take a leak behind a bar or something and get spotted by a family, come on now, theres no way you can say they belong on that list.


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## koshergrl (Nov 13, 2012)

Mandatory sentencing is idiotic.

That's why I never supported it.

Unfortunately, sex offenses, since being demoted in the 80s and 90s to simple "ahem" moments, are potentially serious enough that we really can't afford to let them out without identifying them. This is why we have laws that require monitoring. It happens with horrifying regularity....sex offenders released, then move on to the next victim, sometimes killing them.

People need to know when someone has a sex offense in his background. Just so you know, I've never met one rank offender who didn't minimalize what he did. And I also want to know if the 23 year old young man living next door is fresh out of prison for screwing his 16 y.o. girlfriend....he knew it was illegal, but his love was so great for her he just had to act on it before she came of age?

I don't buy it.

When you're talking 16 y.o./14 y.o. you have a point. Those kids should be re-evaluated in 10 years or so, and potentially be expunged.

But, again..you reduce the punishment for sex offenses, while at the same time you establish mandatory sentencing laws...neither addresses the problem. Naturally both are dem-supported movements.


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## sakinago (Nov 13, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Mandatory sentencing is idiotic.
> 
> That's why I never supported it.
> 
> ...



Right, and I didn't want to go too far above 20 age wise, because I do think around the age of 23, yea they are taking advantage of the girls mentally with their age, and that I think is wrong enough to make them a sex offender, but not necessarily for life. But my buddies little brother was in high school, starting dating a 15 year old, he graduated, she was maybe 16 but he broke up with her cause she was too young, her parents didn't like it and pressed charges. He's been out of prison for a while, cant find a job he can make a career out of, no one wants to hire a sex offender, and I don't think he is allowed to drink for life (I could be wrong but thats what I heard). They put the poor kid and his mugshot on the front page of the paper, and really tried to make it sound like he actually raped the girl, they left out the statutory part definitely on purpose (you know how the news is).  To me thats just ridiculous. Its already hard enough to find a job in this economy, imagine having his record? College is pretty much out of the question for him, no job that requires bachelors degree or higher would ever higher him over a ton of competition out there, which is a shame cause he's a pretty smart kid.  

Im not saying relax the laws on sex offenders, just better define what a sex offender is, and give the ones who arn't dangers to society an opportunity to live a normal life. I mean for most cases it is really not that hard to determine if they are a risk or not. And for those who are dangers, I think depo coupled with supervision is a good solution, and they should absolutely be on the list. You can't always separate them from children, kids are everywhere. But you take away their sex drive, let them know that they are going to get caught if they try anything. Now, there are still sickos out there who will re-offend anyway, but I think we need a better form of screening and just lock these guys away for life.


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## koshergrl (Nov 13, 2012)

Yes I know many boys who were hit with sex offense charges by the psychotic parents of friends and acquaintances...and it does take $$ to get out of something like that, so the ones who don't have $$ for a good attorney have gotten screwed.

And I think even if you are labeled with the SO title for the rest of your life because of that, people are sympathetic and get it. It might change your life but it doesn't have to ruin it.

Another really good reason to teach your kids that no sex is good sex until marriage, and to observe some of the most highly scorned social practices that libs have tossed out...practices like "no holding hands" and "no kissing" and "no dating"...."save yourself for your intended" "Wait until you're older" and "don't dress provacatively" and "think pure thoughts" .


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