# Underground Labor Force Is Rising To The Surface



## Sovereignty (Oct 31, 2008)

The number of illegal immigrants in the United States may be as high as 20 million people, more than double the official 9 million people estimated by the Census Bureau  1/3/05

http://www.bearstearns.com/bscportal/pdfs/underground.pdf


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## PIM (Oct 31, 2008)

Sovereignty said:


> The number of illegal immigrants in the United States may be as high as 20 million people, more than double the official 9 million people estimated by the Census Bureau  1/3/05




Last year I tried to tell everybody , that there were atleast 28 million illegal aliens in this country....when everybody in Washington was saying 12 million I knew better..Remember I work construction and I have to work around these people................every day I see Citizens turned away from jobsites and yet if they are mexicanish speakers only, they can walk onto the job and be working that day...............


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## AllieBaba (Oct 31, 2008)

They're illegal aliens. There's no way to know how many there are.

All you can do is keep hitting on the ridiculous percentage of crime that is committed by them, and the horrible burden they place on our prisons and our medical programs.


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## Sovereignty (Oct 31, 2008)

$200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.

CNN.com - Transcripts


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## Againsheila (Nov 2, 2008)

PIM said:


> Sovereignty said:
> 
> 
> > The number of illegal immigrants in the United States may be as high as 20 million people, more than double the official 9 million people estimated by the Census Bureau  1/3/05
> ...



I have friends who work in the contruction industry.  One of them lost his job to illegals.  One job they worked on, the people working on the house across the street belonged to MS-13.  They came over and threatened the supervisor and our friends had to find another job.  

I have another friend that has worked as a maid for years.  She has tourette's syndrom and even though she has a degree, she's had difficulty getting a job in her field.  Twice she's been pushed out of her job as a maid by hispanics.  They come in and take over and when hours have to be cut, they cut the hours for the Americans until they can no longer make enough to live on and they have to move on.  

I don't know if these hispanics are legal or illegal but I do know that they are not only taking jobs Americans WILL do, they are taking jobs AWAY from Americans.  They are also bringing down our wages.


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## editec (Nov 2, 2008)

Againsheila said:


> I have friends who work in the contruction industry. One of them lost his job to illegals. One job they worked on, the people working on the house across the street belonged to MS-13. They came over and threatened the supervisor and our friends had to find another job.


 
You folks remember me telling you the revolution was going to come to us in the form of criminals?

There it is.

Now what those gangsters did is both a crime AND a revolutionary act, too.

Basically what these gangsters seem to be is an undeclared civil war.

Hey, that's just what happens when civil authority is breaking down, folks.

People take matters into their own hands.


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## Grismonda (Nov 2, 2008)

Againsheila said:


> I have friends who work in the contruction industry.  One of them lost his job to illegals.  One job they worked on, the people working on the house across the street belonged to MS-13.  They came over and threatened the supervisor and our friends had to find another job.
> 
> I have another friend that has worked as a maid for years.  She has tourette's syndrom and even though she has a degree, she's had difficulty getting a job in her field.  Twice she's been pushed out of her job as a maid by hispanics.  They come in and take over and when hours have to be cut, they cut the hours for the Americans until they can no longer make enough to live on and they have to move on.
> 
> I don't know if these hispanics are legal or illegal but I do know that they are not only taking jobs Americans WILL do, they are taking jobs AWAY from Americans.  They are also bringing down our wages.



I understand your anger Sheila.  But look at it this way, Fat Cats like CEO's of companies of MickyD's that hire and fire Americans, and hire illegal foreigners...knowingly do so because their greed dictates them to do so.  Fat Cats are usually well protected.  Take for instance the government bailout.  These greedy guys are receiving multi million dollar bonus' OUT of the $7bil package deal.  ALL right under the nosies of our lovely Congress and Senate...and Pres.  This whole thing was a bi partisan F UP!  This same operation is allowed to exist in the job market...greedy company owners hiring cheap labor to pad their own pockets.  What is ironic, is most the people I know who are passionate about reducing and or eliminating illegal foreigners working in the USA do not support the one candidate, Barack Obama, who at least in words, wants to kick these fat cats to the curb.


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## strollingbones (Nov 2, 2008)

not only are they driving wages down in the construction  but also in landscaping.  americans cant match their prices..since we are unable to live 20 to a house and eat on 20 dollars a week to send money back to mexico.  some mexicans do good work...most dont.  we have them in construction....roofing mostly...some framing...lots in landscaping...and christmas trees...but as i said earlier..we are seeing less mexicans than a few years ago.  they seem to be moving into other areas..or going back to mexico.


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## Againsheila (Nov 2, 2008)

Grismonda said:


> I understand your anger Sheila.  But look at it this way, Fat Cats like CEO's of companies of MickyD's that hire and fire Americans, and hire illegal foreigners...knowingly do so because their greed dictates them to do so.  Fat Cats are usually well protected.  Take for instance the government bailout.  These greedy guys are receiving multi million dollar bonus' OUT of the $7bil package deal.  ALL right under the nosies of our lovely Congress and Senate...and Pres.  This whole thing was a bi partisan F UP!  This same operation is allowed to exist in the job market...greedy company owners hiring cheap labor to pad their own pockets.  What is ironic, is most the people I know who are passionate about reducing and or eliminating illegal foreigners working in the USA do not support the one candidate, Barack Obama, who at least in words, wants to kick these fat cats to the curb.



LOL, that's because Obama is lying through his teeth.  Besides, he's not even eligible to be president.  Don't take it personally, I don't think McCain is either.  These are the two worst candidates in the HISTORY of our nation.  Barack is all in favor of these bigwigs, though he talks tough.  He also scares the sh*t out of me.  The man visited Pakistan at the age of 20 on an Indonesian passport.  His supporters include terrorists and muslim terrorists at that.

I'm voting for Chuck Baldwin.

BTW, I agree the greedy CEOs are just as responsible for this mess as our government and the illegals themselves, so are those who rent to them and those who sell to them and those that knowingly help them in any way shape or form.


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## Grismonda (Nov 2, 2008)

Againsheila said:


> LOL, that's because Obama is lying through his teeth.  Besides, he's not even eligible to be president.  Don't take it personally, I don't think McCain is either.  These are the two worst candidates in the HISTORY of our nation.  Barack is all in favor of these bigwigs, though he talks tough.  He also scares the sh*t out of me.  The man visited Pakistan at the age of 20 on an Indonesian passport.  His supporters include terrorists and muslim terrorists at that.
> 
> I'm voting for Chuck Baldwin.
> 
> BTW, I agree the greedy CEOs are just as responsible for this mess as our government and the illegals themselves, so are those who rent to them and those who sell to them and those that knowingly help them in any way shape or form.



Would it equally scare you if I told you I visited Pakistan when I was 18?  I did.  Chuckie Baldwin is not on my ballot.  Sorry, I will have to stick with the man in my opinion is the best viable candidate- Barack HUSSEIN Obama! *wink*


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## Againsheila (Nov 2, 2008)

Grismonda said:


> Would it equally scare you if I told you I visited Pakistan when I was 18?  I did.  Chuckie Baldwin is not on my ballot.  Sorry, I will have to stick with the man in my opinion is the best viable candidate- Barack HUSSEIN Obama! *wink*



If you did it on an Indonesian Passport, if your father was muslim,  if you helped campaign for a muslim to become president of Kenya, raising $1,000,000 for him, and when that candidate didn't win, civil war broke out and churches were burned with people inside them, and you were running for POTUS, heck yeah!


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## Sovereignty (Nov 2, 2008)

I just heard on a national news channel that Obama has 70% of the Hispanic vote and McCain carrys 25%.  Obama campaign has given ACORN $800,000.00 this year.  ACORN is involved in voter fraud swaying towards Obama.


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## Grismonda (Nov 2, 2008)

Sovereignty said:


> I just heard on a national news channel that Obama has 70% of the Hispanic vote and McCain carrys 25%.  Obama campaign has given ACORN $800,000.00 this year.  ACORN is involved in voter fraud swaying towards Obama.



AND what does this "stunning" news piece have to do with the title of this thread..._Underground Labor Force Is Rising To The Surface?  _


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## Grismonda (Nov 2, 2008)

Againsheila said:


> If you did it on an Indonesian Passport, if your father was muslim,  if you helped campaign for a muslim to become president of Kenya, raising $1,000,000 for him, and when that candidate didn't win, civil war broke out and churches were burned with people inside them, and you were running for POTUS, heck yeah!



Yeah, HECK YA!  You BETCHA!  *wink wink*.  Those darn Muslims, who do they think they are thinking they have religious freedom in the US of A.  I thought we were Quakers or something.


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## Againsheila (Nov 2, 2008)

Grismonda said:


> AND what does this "stunning" news piece have to do with the title of this thread..._Underground Labor Force Is Rising To The Surface?  _



The fact that Acorn is registering illegals to vote, many of them SEVERAL times.


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## Againsheila (Nov 2, 2008)

Grismonda said:


> Yeah, HECK YA!  You BETCHA!  *wink wink*.  Those darn Muslims, who do they think they are thinking they have religious freedom in the US of A.  I thought we were Quakers or something.



Uh...so you think that burning churches with people inside them is "religious freedom"?????


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## Grismonda (Nov 2, 2008)

Againsheila said:


> Uh...so you think that burning churches with people inside them is "religious freedom"?????



One of my new favorite shows on TV is the Mike Huckabee Show on Fox News.  Now I do not agree with Huckabee on many issues, but he is kind, allowing his guests to speak...showing respect for those opposite his view like Bill Maher.  Last evening's show was interesting because Mike and Bill discussed religion.  Bill of course brought up your point, how can God allow atrocities like burning of churches...etc...under the banner of religion.  Mike countered that point, with goodness religion has brought mankind.  They were not speaking exclusively about Christianity.  

While I agree with you Sheila, church burnings are horrible, I also recognize Muslims do not have a monopoly on "religious hate crimes".  Take a long look at the USA...and tell me burning of "black churches" in the South by Christians were done with love for this country.

Barack Obama does not represent this kind of hate any more than you or I.


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## Sovereignty (Nov 2, 2008)

Billiegoatgruff74, Chocobrun, Grismonda, (all the same)

It means that Obama will fight to give Amnesty to all illegal aliens in the country.  The minute the illegal aliens have a Green Card they&#8217;ll all be legally eligible for welfare, social service, medicare and public housing.  They can sponsor up to 9 relative each, so that they can also join in the welfare-give-away.  Some will have ageing parents and young children they left behind in their countries of origin for the American taxpayer's to support!  

The Bear Sterns report no doubt was for determining how many illegal aliens could buy houses with the bogus loans the banks gave them.  The illegal aliens didn't even need jobs or citizenship or an address to qualify for these loans.  That's what caused the housing crisis when the illegal aliens didn't get Amnesty they fled leaving behind unpaid mortgages, credit card bills, car payment and personal loans.

Get Ready For Your Taxes To Go Up If Obama Win Office!


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## Againsheila (Nov 2, 2008)

Grismonda said:


> One of my new favorite shows on TV is the Mike Huckabee Show on Fox News.  Now I do not agree with Huckabee on many issues, but he is kind, allowing his guests to speak...showing respect for those opposite his view like Bill Maher.  Last evening's show was interesting because Mike and Bill discussed religion.  Bill of course brought up your point, how can God allow atrocities like burning of churches...etc...under the banner of religion.  Mike countered that point, with goodness religion has brought mankind.  They were not speaking exclusively about Christianity.
> 
> While I agree with you Sheila, church burnings are horrible, I also recognize Muslims do not have a monopoly on "religious hate crimes".  Take a long look at the USA...and tell me burning of "black churches" in the South by Christians were done with love for this country.
> 
> Barack Obama does not represent this kind of hate any more than you or I.



Please, Barack Obama campaigned for Odinga.  Odinga was responsible for the churches burning, and YOU claim it's "religous freedom".  

I spoke out against the mosques being burned after 9/11 too, but you, and everyone of Obama's supporters are supporting someone that supported Odinga who was responsible for the burning of Christains alive.  $1,000,000 is a heck of a lot of money in Kenya and that's what Obama raised for that man.  Obama is just as responsible for those churches burning as Odinga and the ones who actually did the burning.


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## Grismonda (Nov 2, 2008)

Againsheila said:


> Please, Barack Obama campaigned for Odinga.  Odinga was responsible for the churches burning, and YOU claim it's "religous freedom".
> 
> I spoke out against the mosques being burned after 9/11 too, but you, and everyone of Obama's supporters are supporting someone that supported Odinga who was responsible for the burning of Christains alive.  $1,000,000 is a heck of a lot of money in Kenya and that's what Obama raised for that man.  Obama is just as responsible for those churches burning as Odinga and the ones who actually did the burning.



You don't have the right to tell me how I think or put words in my mouth.  I was speaking of the atrocities those of different faiths direct to those that are different than themselves.  This has been going on for centuries.  It will not end. Religion is a dicey business.  Now, until you post facts along with your opinions, I see no reason to take the time to respond to you.


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## LA RAM FAN (Nov 2, 2008)

Againsheila said:


> LOL, that's because Obama is lying through his teeth.  Besides, he's not even eligible to be president.  Don't take it personally, I don't think McCain is either.  These are the two worst candidates in the HISTORY of our nation.  Barack is all in favor of these bigwigs, though he talks tough.  He also scares the sh*t out of me.  The man visited Pakistan at the age of 20 on an Indonesian passport.  His supporters include terrorists and muslim terrorists at that.
> 
> I'm voting for Chuck Baldwin.
> 
> BTW, I agree the greedy CEOs are just as responsible for this mess as our government and the illegals themselves, so are those who rent to them and those who sell to them and those that knowingly help them in any way shape or form.



I agree totally that they are the two worst candidates.their both evil and corrupted.


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## gts (Nov 2, 2008)

when are people going to stop counting on the government to fix this problem? We can fix this problem our selves. Yes we can do it legally too. Quit buying product from those that employ the scum that sneaks in. Stop supporting the illegals that mow and prun trees. Yes this is going to suck for all of us but its an easy thing to do once you get into the idea of it.
People find your LOCAL farmers that hire your high school kids, find your LOCAL butcher that dresses all of the meat himself, if you need yard work done I guarentee there are 9 to 13 year old kids close enough to you to pay (and most will do it with a smile).
Contractors:::::if you want to help pay what you need to so that you may keep legal employees then advertise the fact "Built by Citizens of America" there are two contractors that post that sign on every jobsite and on their business cards. You will get work because of it!
*Remeber if they dont/cant work they will leave.*


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## Grismonda (Nov 3, 2008)

gts said:


> People find your LOCAL farmers that hire your high school kids,[/B]



You mean like Cargill?  THAT local farmer?


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## gts (Nov 3, 2008)

Grismonda said:


> You mean like Cargill?  THAT local farmer?



Unfamiliar


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## gts (Nov 3, 2008)

Ok I think I know who you are refering to and I also think that you know what I was refering to . When I say local I dont mean go to the big commercial slaughterhouse down the way. I mean the smaller place that actually does the work there in his establishment. You know the one. little more expensive but alot better food.


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## chloe (Nov 15, 2008)

When I lived in Texas many years ago, I worked at a resteraunt and they had illegals cooking food & washing dishes. They weren't paid much and I wouldn't have wanted there job. They didn't speak any english and called me "miha" ?


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## Grismonda (Nov 15, 2008)

gts said:


> Ok I think I know who you are refering to and I also think that you know what I was refering to . When I say local I dont mean go to the big commercial slaughterhouse down the way. I mean the smaller place that actually does the work there in his establishment. You know the one. little more expensive but alot better food.



No, I mean Cargill, owner of most of the farmland in the US....


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## dilloduck (Nov 15, 2008)

chloe said:


> When I lived in Texas many years ago, I worked at a resteraunt and they had illegals cooking food & washing dishes. They weren't paid much and I wouldn't have wanted there job. They didn't speak any english and called me "miha" ?



Probably "mija". For men it would be "mijo" . It's a term of endearment like "sweetie" or "honey".


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## chloe (Nov 15, 2008)

oh I see, well they had hard jobs I don't envy the position they are put in.


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## PeterS (Nov 15, 2008)

Sovereignty said:


> $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
> 
> CNN.com - Transcripts



That would also be 200B returned in higher profits or lower prices. Strange you didn't mention that...


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## PoliticalJunky (Nov 16, 2008)

Sovereignty said:


> The number of illegal immigrants in the United States may be as high as 20 million people, more than double the official 9 million people estimated by the Census Bureau  1/3/05



This does not surprise me at all. I have been telling people that the 12 million number has been used by politicians for over 6 years now, and all the while each year more and more have continually snuck into our country.


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## Manuel (Nov 16, 2008)

Againsheila said:


> If you did it on an Indonesian Passport, if your father was muslim,  if you helped campaign for a muslim to become president of Kenya, raising $1,000,000 for him, and when that candidate didn't win, civil war broke out and churches were burned with people inside them, and you were running for POTUS, heck yeah!



...
A third popular Obama "tip" has to do with Raila Odinga, the Kenyan prime minister and former opposition leader who claimed that Obama was a distant cousin. 

The reports surfaced after a political crisis in Kenya in which many international observers believed the vote was stolen from Odinga. As the international community rallied behind the opposition, Obama spoke to Odinga briefly on the telephone.

The media has ignored stories about the relationship between the two men because there's no real evidence that one exists. But the story, which comes in many varieties, suggests that Obama campaigned for Odinga and funneled money to his campaign and that they're close allies. In a particularly resonant twist, the story also subjects Odinga to the same sort of rumor that afflicts Obama: that despite Odinga's professed Christian faith (the Kenyan prime minister is an Anglican), the two men are conspiring to institute Muslim law&#8230;in Kenya. 

A range of officials have denied almost every detail of the rumor, and the story more or less debunked itself earlier this month when anti-Obama writer Jerome Corsi released an e-mail purporting to be a message from Obama to the Odinga camp. 

The problem is that the e-mail clearly was not written by a native English speaker.
....


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## strollingbones (Nov 16, 2008)

some time yall might wanna take some time out and look thur a military graveyard....the number of hispanic names might say something to yall....but then again yall dont wanna see anything but the negative...sorry to interupt the hate fest...


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## editec (Nov 16, 2008)

PeterS said:


> That would also be 200B returned in higher profits or lower prices. Strange you didn't mention that...


 
That's because the people really aren't seeing those profits.

As to lower prices? 

Obviously you don't do  the grocery shopping.


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## PoliticalJunky (Nov 16, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> some time yall might wanna take some time out and look thur a military graveyard....the number of hispanic names might say something to yall....but then again yall dont wanna see anything but the negative...sorry to interupt the hate fest...



What the hell do they have to do with illegals invading our country? Try to get a grip on your racism. This is about illegal immigration and not just about the Hispanics, though the majority of the illegals in our country happen to be from Mexico.


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## strollingbones (Nov 16, 2008)

o suddenly we are gonna pretend this isn't about hispanics...meanwhile back at the reality ranch....


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## strollingbones (Nov 16, 2008)

There are more than 40,000 non-citizens serving in the military today, and another 33,750 immigrant soldiers have been naturalized since Sept. 11, 2001, according to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. And, 102 immigrants have been awarded posthumous citizenship based on their military service since the War on Terror began.

Immigration Chronicles: A military "freedom legion'' for illegal immigrants?


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## jillian (Nov 16, 2008)

Againsheila said:


> LOL, that's because Obama is lying through his teeth.  Besides, he's not even eligible to be president.  Don't take it personally, I don't think McCain is either.



You're really turning into a one-note, aren't you? 

Get a grip and stop spewing nonsense. Both were "eligible". Sorry if the white supremacists had no candidate for you to vote for this year.


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## Ravi (Nov 16, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> There are more than 40,000 non-citizens serving in the military today, and another 33,750 immigrant soldiers have been naturalized since Sept. 11, 2001, according to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. And, 102 immigrants have been awarded posthumous citizenship based on their military service since the War on Terror began.
> 
> Immigration Chronicles: A military "freedom legion'' for illegal immigrants?


I don't understand how it is legal for the government to employ non-documented workers but it isn't for a business to do so.


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## strollingbones (Nov 16, 2008)

Ravi said:


> I don't understand how it is legal for the government to employ non-documented workers but it isn't for a business to do so.



ravi your logic always amazes me...it does seem a wee bit odd..doesnt it?

but again these threads are not on hispanics....have you seen one bit of data on canada's who are here illegally?


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## Ravi (Nov 16, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> ravi your logic always amazes me...it does seem a wee bit odd..doesnt it?
> 
> but again these threads are not on hispanics....have you seen one bit of data on canada's who are here illegally?


lol, of course not. White undocumented immigrants add to the white supremist's gene pool.


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## editec (Nov 16, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> o suddenly we are gonna pretend this isn't about hispanics...meanwhile back at the reality ranch....


 Reality ranch.

Do you imagine we wouldn't object if millions of White Russians were doing the same thing to us?

This isn't about racism, this is about economics and a society straining to absorb so many new workers and their families.


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## strollingbones (Nov 16, 2008)

editec said:


> Reality ranch.
> 
> Do you imagine we wouldn't object if millions of White Russians were doing the same thing to us?
> 
> This isn't about racism, this is about economics and a society straining to absorb so many new workers and their families.




no,,,i havent heard a thing about white russians who do come to this country....nor anything about euros....who come here...

i realize the mexicians are coming in large waves but so did the germans and irish....look at the history...larger waves have been absorbed


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## strollingbones (Nov 16, 2008)

o and another thing i havent called anyone a racist...i was called one....


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## PeterS (Nov 16, 2008)

editec said:


> That's because the people really aren't seeing those profits.
> 
> As to lower prices?
> 
> Obviously you don't do  the grocery shopping.



Actually I do go grocery shopping and I shudder to think what the cost would be if I doubled the labor cost to produce the foods my family consumes. It never ceases to amaze me how people will bemoan higher prices on one hand then through ignorance beg for higher prices on the other hand. The simple fact of the matter is that labor is part of the cost for everything we buy. Increase the labor cost and you increase the price of what you buy. If you are unhappy with illegal immigration the open up your wallet and stop bitching...


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## Ravi (Nov 16, 2008)

editec said:


> Reality ranch.
> 
> Do you imagine we wouldn't object if millions of White Russians were doing the same thing to us?
> 
> This isn't about racism, this is about economics and a society straining to absorb so many new workers and their families.


There's an ad on this page that tries to get people to give some "doctor" money so he can send some racist bullshit about diseases Mexicans bring into this country. Please don't pretend that many people aren't harboring racist feelings against Mexicans.

That said, I have asked repeatedly for someone to show the actual impact of illegal immigrants monetarily on the USA. No one has ever posted any credible evidence that they cost us more than the earn us. Perhaps as the economy falters further this will become true, but at this point no one actually knows.

IMO sending jobs offshore costs us much more.


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## editec (Nov 16, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> no,,,i havent heard a thing about white russians who do come to this country....nor anything about euros....who come here...


 
Come on now. You know what I was saying. Not that EUROS are coming, but if they did, in the numbers that the illegals from south of our border were, we'd be freaking out about them, too.



> i realize the mexicians are coming in large waves but so did the germans and irish....look at the history...larger waves have been absorbed


 
But not in this way, Stroll. It was a different nation with different needs, back them

They came in waves, true, and most of them came because industries here needed them, recruited them and they found jobs that, had they not come, would have gone unfulfilled.

They weren't taking current American's jobs, they were making it possible for this nation's growing industrial power to develop.

But since now we're deindustrializing our nation, the current illegals are competing for Americans for those scarcer jobs.

Big damned difference, but not one based on their ethnic, but on what America really needs, right now.


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## Againsheila (Nov 16, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> some time yall might wanna take some time out and look thur a military graveyard....the number of hispanic names might say something to yall....but then again yall dont wanna see anything but the negative...sorry to interupt the hate fest...



I don't care what you say, those guys are Americans.  We aren't arguing against hispanics, but against illegal aliens, the majority of which, because of geography, happen to be hispanic.  BTW, the majority of LEGAL immigrants are also hispanic.


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## Againsheila (Nov 16, 2008)

editec said:


> Come on now. You know what I was saying. Not that EUROS are coming, but if they did, in the numbers that the illegals from south of our border were, we'd be freaking out about them, too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Actually, they were taking American jobs.  There was an outcry against the Irish when so many of them immigrated here.  Heck, there were wars because of it.  The same thing happened when we had too many Chinese immigrating here.  The population can only absorb so much and then Americans start fighting back, it's happened all throughout history.  Some Chinese were hung, others were put on a ship and shipped back.  

I've been saying for years the same thing is gonna happen to the hispanics when we reach the breaking point.  The problem is, when that happens, the legal hispanics and hispanic Americans are going to suffer along with the illegals.  Not saying it's right, just saying that's the way it's happened all throughout our history.


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## catzmeow (Nov 16, 2008)

editec said:


> Come on now. You know what I was saying. Not that EUROS are coming, but if they did, in the numbers that the illegals from south of our border were, we'd be freaking out about them, too.



Check out how the Western European nations are freaking out about an influx of cheaper Eastern European labor flooding their countries....I suppose it's okay for them to feel this way, but not for us.


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## catzmeow (Nov 16, 2008)

Ravi said:


> There's an ad on this page that tries to get people to give some "doctor" money so he can send some racist bullshit about diseases Mexicans bring into this country. Please don't pretend that many people aren't harboring racist feelings against Mexicans.



You mean like illegal immigrants from Central America who bring Tuberculosis with them?


> Why should our hospitals have to eat the cost of disease brought in by undocumented workers? I found out that his bill totaled $200,000. This excludes professional fees, meaning everything that would have been billed separately by the many physicians treating him over 10 weeks (including what I'd have charged for surgery). We all worked for him free.
> 
> How many other diseases are being brought in by how many other undocumented and unexamined workers? Somehow, here, a social worker was able to track down the friends and relatives who came to the U.S. with this patient. They all tested positive for TB, and were all working behind the scenes in local restaurants.


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## catzmeow (Nov 16, 2008)

> To reduce the risk of mortality from infection diseases in low-incidence areas, the main countermeasure has been the screening of immigrants on arrival. Prior to being awarded a green card, legal immigrants over the age of 15 must have a chest x-ray or skin test to check for tuberculosis.[40][41] Illegal immigrants are not screened in this manner. However, according to the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)], tuberculosis (TB) cases among foreign-born individuals remain disproportionately high, at nearly nine times the rate of U.S.-born persons. Immigration from areas of high incidence is thought to have fueled the resurgence of tuberculosis (TB), chagas, hepatitis, and leprosy in areas of low incidence. In 2003, nearly 26 percent of foreign-born TB patients in the United States were from Mexico. Another third of the foreign-born cases were among those from the Philippines, Vietnam, India and China, the CDC report said.[42][43][44]



Economic impact of illegal immigrants in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm sure the CDC is just fear-mongering.


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## catzmeow (Nov 16, 2008)

And, it isn't just hepatitis & tuberculosis cases that are on the rise as the result of illiegal immigration...think leprosy.


> Because many of the population in the U.S. affected by leprosy are immigrants in poor communities who primarily seek treatment in free clinics or emergency rooms...



And, chagas disease.  


> The impact of Chagas disease is not limited to the rural areas in Latin America in which vectorborne transmission occurs. Large-scale population movements from rural to urban areas of Latin America and to other regions of the world have increased the geographic distribution and changed the epidemiology of Chagas disease.


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## Againsheila (Nov 16, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> There are more than 40,000 non-citizens serving in the military today, and another 33,750 immigrant soldiers have been naturalized since Sept. 11, 2001, according to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. And, 102 immigrants have been awarded posthumous citizenship based on their military service since the War on Terror began.
> 
> Immigration Chronicles: A military "freedom legion'' for illegal immigrants?



You are equating a legal immigrant who serves our country with an illegal alien?  Why?  

IMO, those non-citizens who are in our military should be on the fast tract to citizenship, not the illegal aliens.

BTW, illegal aliens are not allowed to serve in our armed forces.  One was found, he's been brought here as a baby by his parents and he didn't know he wasn't an American or that  he was here illegally.  There was talk of courtmarshall, but the president stepped in and gave him citizenship, as he should have.  His parents, imo, should have been deported.


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## catzmeow (Nov 16, 2008)

Againsheila said:


> IMO, those non-citizens who are in our military should be on the fast tract to citizenship, not the illegal aliens.



Hear, hear.  I totally agree.


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## Againsheila (Nov 16, 2008)

catzmeow said:


> You mean like illegal immigrants from Central America who bring Tuberculosis with them?



When I came back from Mexico, I tested positive for TB.  I had to take the pills for a year and everyone I'd come in contact with since I got back had to have a TB test.  They all tested negative, Thank God.  I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that a Mexican who's lived his entire life in Mexico and sneaks into our country without a medical check up or background check would bring TB into this country.  Come to think of it, it's not unusual for anyone in a 3rd world country to be exposed to tb.  The problem is that those that come here legally don't get tested for TB and therefore, when it becomes active, they spread it. 

When my sister came here from Thailand, she too tested positive and had to take the pills for a year.  Illegal aliens aren't getting TB tests so the chances of it becoming active and them spreading it goes up every year that they are here.


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## PoliticalJunky (Nov 16, 2008)

PeterS said:


> Actually I do go grocery shopping and I shudder to think what the cost would be if I doubled the labor cost to produce the foods my family consumes. It never ceases to amaze me how people will bemoan higher prices on one hand then through ignorance beg for higher prices on the other hand. The simple fact of the matter is that labor is part of the cost for everything we buy. Increase the labor cost and you increase the price of what you buy. If you are unhappy with illegal immigration the open up your wallet and stop bitching...



The simple fact is that prices would not go up that much for most groceries. That has been debunked for a long time. Illegals cost this nation much more then they give.


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## PoliticalJunky (Nov 16, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> o suddenly we are gonna pretend this isn't about hispanics...meanwhile back at the reality ranch....



It would really be nice if you did get back to reality because all you want to do is spew racism when it means nothing anymore. In fact, there is much more racism toward whites from Hispanics than the other way around. And don't even tell me I don't know what I am talking about because I am Hispanic and of Mexican descent.


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## indago (Nov 17, 2008)

*CNN  LOU DOBBS TONIGHT  Aired November 14, 2008 - 19:00 ET*

KITTY PILGRIM, CNN GUEST ANCHOR: Authorities in Colorado tonight say they have uncovered massive identity theft and a tax fraud scheme. More than 1,000 illegal aliens are accused of using fake ID's to obtain tax refunds, and local prosecutors say the IRS has done nothing to stop it. Casey Wian has our report. 

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) 

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): More than 1,300 illegal aliens near Greeley, Colorado, have been using either stolen or phony Social Security numbers to receive at least $2.5 million in tax refunds, according to local law enforcement officials. 

CHIEF JERRY GARNER, GREELEY POLICE DEPT.: These folks that are here illegally are victimizing American citizens by stealing their identity. Very, very often they are victimizing American citizens who are Latino. 

WIAN: Police say all of the cases are linked to one tax preparer, who helped the illegal aliens file the returns. Officials believe the scheme worked this way. Illegal aliens used fake or stolen Social Security numbers to obtain a job. Taxes were withheld from their paychecks, often at improperly low rates by claiming children who either didn't exist or lived outside the United States. 

Officials believe Amalia's Translation and Tax Service in Greeley would then obtain illegal taxpayer ID number and file a return claiming child tax credits. Illegal aliens would receive refunds, averaging $2,000. Officials note the tax preparer has not been charged with a crime, but local police believe the IRS knew it was happening, saying the illegal aliens have been doing it right under their noses. 

SHERIFF JOHN COOKE, WELD COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: They're using identities of American citizens and the IRS is allowing it to happen. They know the Social Security numbers are stolen. They don't do anything about it. They don't  they  all they care about is getting these people into the tax code system. 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My duty is to help them file their taxes. Regardless, you know, if they're here illegally or not or if they're using a fake Social.

WIAN: So far, police have made 15 arrests and have issued 31 arrest warrants on state charges of identity theft or criminal impersonation. They expect to make more apprehensions in the next several weeks. 

KEN BUCK, WELD COUNTY DISTRICT ATTY.: To add 1,300 cases to that caseload, in essence adding 50 percent to our caseload just goes to show what type of burden we have on the local system as a result of the federal government not doing its job in the illegal immigration area. 

WIAN: The IRS declined to comment on the case. 

(END VIDEOTAPE) 

WIAN: A local district attorney says there are identity theft victims linked to the scheme all over the United States, yet the tax preparer and local Latino advocates claim they're being racially profiled by law enforcement authorities  Kitty. 

PILGRIM: Casey, that's unbelievable. And the tax preparer is not even admitting any guilt or remorse? 

WIAN: No, absolutely not. She said she was following the IRS guidelines that the IRS just wanted to get these people onto the tax rolls and obviously these people found a significant loophole where the IRS is not talking to the Department of Homeland Security, other law enforcement authorities. They've been able to get away with this for at least two years, probably a lot longer than that, Kitty. 

PILGRIM: Unbelievable. Thanks very much. Casey Wian.


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## strollingbones (Nov 17, 2008)

PoliticalJunky said:


> It would really be nice if you did get back to reality because all you want to do is spew racism when it means nothing anymore. In fact, there is much more racism toward whites from Hispanics than the other way around. And don't even tell me I don't know what I am talking about because I am Hispanic and of Mexican descent.




how am i spewing racism by simply saying what we are discussing...as i have stated...all illegals regardless  of country of origin should be deported...that is about as non racist as you can get in this topic.


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## catzmeow (Nov 17, 2008)

PoliticalJunky said:


> And don't even tell me I don't know what I am talking about because I am Hispanic and of Mexican descent.



I find it interesting how many Latinos I've worked with over the years who see what a threat illegal immigration poses to their economic standard, and that of their children. As long as multinational corporations can import cheap labor, wages will remain stagnant, and the people who will be damaged the most are America's poor minority populations, particularly in inner city areas where the struggle is so desperate.

Furthermore, think about areas where people are the poorest, where illegal populations tend to cluster.  Those are also the areas with the highest unemployment, the most overcrowded/underperforming schools, and the least access to services and healthcare.  Illegal immigration creates a system of competition for access to a good education and a job FOR OUR MOST VULNERABLE AMERICANS.

I do not, for the life of me, understand how the no-borders crowd can fail to miss that the people who are hurt most by illegal immigration ARE OUR POOR PEOPLE.

Illegal immigration actually helps the wealthy and the middle class, but it strips away opportunities for the poor to climb economically.  In places like Miami, Houston, Los Angeles, etc., areas with heavy illegal immigrant populations, look at what has happened to the black communities and the Chicanos.  They have fallen behind economically just when they were starting to make real gains.  

You want to see what illegal immigration has done?  Spend some time in Compton or Watts.  Or Miami Gardens, Florida.  Or the north side of Houston.


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## catzmeow (Nov 17, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> all illegals regardless  of country of origin should be deported...that is about as non racist as you can get in this topic.



I don't think he/she caught the sarcastic tone.


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## Grismonda (Nov 17, 2008)

catzmeow said:


> I don't think he/she caught the sarcastic tone.




Are you certain it was sarcasim?

fyi: "Stated very simply, a person who uses sarcasm to gain effect is nothing more than a verbal bully. Sarcasm is generated from a pessimistic outlook. And at its core sarcasm is the by-product of a judgmental nature. It is acting on a damaged perspective of reality or outlook " Dr. Williams


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## catzmeow (Nov 18, 2008)

Grismonda said:


> fyi: "Stated very simply, a person who uses sarcasm to gain effect is nothing more than a verbal bully. Sarcasm is generated from a pessimistic outlook. And at its core sarcasm is the by-product of a judgmental nature. It is acting on a damaged perspective of reality or outlook " Dr. Williams



boo de fucking hoo.  People who believe in the concept of verbal bullying on an ANONYMOUS internet forum should probably wrap themselves in bubble wrap and never leave Disney.com | The Official Home Page For All Things Disney.


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## Grismonda (Nov 18, 2008)

catzmeow said:


> boo de fucking hoo.  People who believe in the concept of verbal bullying on an ANONYMOUS internet forum should probably wrap themselves in bubble wrap and never leave Disney.com | The Official Home Page For All Things Disney.



Sarcasm as well as ridicule, parody and turning the opponent's position into a joke are all legitimate forms of argument.

Without them we have no satire and no way to strongly verbalize impressions we feel need to be corrected in others, or points of our own we wish to get across but cannot be factually "proven", such as whether Americans have the constitutional right to own weapons not in existence when the Constitution was written.

They may or may not make their point, they may or may not be skillfully written, they may even be wrong, but the legitimacy of the form is absolute.

It is important to distinguish between verbal bullying and sarcasm.  I find many posts on this thread lacking this distinction.


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## catzmeow (Nov 18, 2008)

Grismonda said:


> It is important to distinguish between verbal bullying and sarcasm.  I find many posts on this thread lacking this distinction.



Bullying is a very real issue, and it impacts people in their real lives.  If you feel that you are being "bullied" in an online message board, where no one knows your real identity, let me recommend that you get offline and get a life.


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## PIM (Dec 5, 2008)

Grismonda said:


> Would it equally scare you if I told you I visited Pakistan when I was 18?  I did.  Chuckie Baldwin is not on my ballot.  Sorry, I will have to stick with the man in my opinion is the best viable candidate- Barack HUSSEIN Obama! *wink*



what would scare me would be if you traveled to Pakistan in 1981 and you are a U.S. Citizen......................Nobody who was a U.S. Citizen could travel to Pakistan on a U.S. Passport in 1981.............Pakistan would arrest and detain you until they could find transport for you, you might travel for a couple of days by car or bus to the nearest border that would allow you to enter their country.............


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 25, 2009)

Grismonda said:


> fyi: "Stated very simply, a person who uses sarcasm to gain effect is nothing more than a verbal bully. Sarcasm is generated from a pessimistic outlook. And at its core sarcasm is the by-product of a judgmental nature. It is acting on a damaged perspective of reality or outlook " Dr. Williams
> 
> and-----
> 
> ...


 
*Plagiarize much?* You lifted thoes statements from; "Wanderingspryle" and, "DAX" the Administrator.
On this forum. 

Seven Page Obama Vetting Questionaire - Fool Moon


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