# Tea Party vs Libertarians



## whitehall (Oct 19, 2012)

On the surface it seems that the republican party best reflects the core of libertarian values but why would the current libertarian presidential candidate try to siphon votes from the republican party in such a crucial election when he ran for congress as a republican? The Tea Party is merely a pressure group that tries to get the best candidates that recognize the US Constitution but the left absolutely hates the Tea Party and yet tolerates libertarians who spout incredible far right rhetoric. Can it be that the current libertarian party is nothing but a con-job infiltrated by dirty tricks left wing socialists?


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## Dante (Oct 19, 2012)

Liberals are more libertarian than conservatives. Republicans have hijacked the term 'libertarian'


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Oct 19, 2012)

whitehall said:


> On the surface it seems that the republican party best reflects the core of libertarian values but why would the current libertarian presidential candidate try to siphon votes from the republican party in such a crucial election when he ran for congress as a republican? The Tea Party is merely a pressure group that tries to get the best candidates that recognize the US Constitution but the left absolutely hates the Tea Party and yet tolerates libertarians who spout incredible far right rhetoric. Can it be that the current libertarian party is nothing but a con-job infiltrated by dirty tricks left wing socialists?



This post is mostly incoherent, but I'll give it my best shot.

The "left" "tolerates" the Libertarian Party because it is largely considered to hurt the Republicans more than the Democrats. The same reason that the "right" "tolerates" the Green Party.

Gary Johnson did not run for Congress as a Republican. He's a former Republican Governor, and ran for the Republican nomination for President. He's running as a Libertarian because he doesn't see any difference between Romney and Obama, and because he was never given a fair shot at the Republican nomination.

As for libertarians "spouting incredible far right rhetoric," I think you've got it backwards. The "right" often spouts libertarian talking points, but they never follow through once in power.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Oct 19, 2012)

Dante said:


> *Liberals are more libertarian than conservatives.* Republicans have hijacked the term 'libertarian'



Not really. There's no way to objectively measure it.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Oct 19, 2012)

whitehall said:


> On the surface it seems that the republican party best reflects the core of libertarian values but why would the current libertarian presidential candidate try to siphon votes from the republican party in such a crucial election when he ran for congress as a republican? The Tea Party is merely a pressure group that tries to get the best candidates that recognize the US Constitution but the left absolutely hates the Tea Party and yet tolerates libertarians who spout incredible far right rhetoric. Can it be that the current libertarian party is nothing but a con-job infiltrated by dirty tricks left wing socialists?



Test thread for excuses as to why Romney lost.


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## Oddball (Oct 19, 2012)

whitehall said:


> On the surface it seems that the republican party best reflects the core of libertarian values but why would the current libertarian presidential candidate try to siphon votes from the republican party in such a crucial election when he ran for congress as a republican? The Tea Party is merely a pressure group that tries to get the best candidates that recognize the US Constitution but the left absolutely hates the Tea Party and yet tolerates libertarians who spout incredible far right rhetoric. Can it be that the current libertarian party is nothing but a con-job infiltrated by dirty tricks left wing socialists?


Because the Republican Party _*doesn't*_ reflect the core libertarian values at all.

Sure, republicans pay mere lip service to them when they're running for office, then they get elected and govern like the socialist progressives they claim to oppose.

See: Juan McCadaver, Lindsey Graham, Dennis Hastert, Chimpola McShrub, John Boner, Norm Coleman, Arlen Specter, GHW Bush, Bill Frist, Tommy Thompson, Tim Pawlenty....

You want a con job, look no farther than the RNC, pal.


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## Dante (Oct 19, 2012)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > *Liberals are more libertarian than conservatives.* Republicans have hijacked the term 'libertarian'
> ...



Liberals have certain values that conservatives do not share. Those values are shared by libertarian philosophy.

by deeds and not actions do I judge partisans.


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## Dante (Oct 19, 2012)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > On the surface it seems that the republican party best reflects the core of libertarian values but why would the current libertarian presidential candidate try to siphon votes from the republican party in such a crucial election when he ran for congress as a republican? The Tea Party is merely a pressure group that tries to get the best candidates that recognize the US Constitution but the left absolutely hates the Tea Party and yet tolerates libertarians who spout incredible far right rhetoric. Can it be that the current libertarian party is nothing but a con-job infiltrated by dirty tricks left wing socialists?
> ...





Romnesia...but not to worry, Obamacare covers preexisting conditions


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Oct 19, 2012)

Dante said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
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> 
> > Dante said:
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Some liberals have certain values that line up with libertarianism, just like some conservatives have values that line up with libertarianism. By what objective measure can you decide which has more? You can't.


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## Paulie (Oct 21, 2012)

Dante said:


> Liberals are more libertarian than conservatives. Republicans have hijacked the term 'libertarian'



I don't agree.  Socially, liberals and libertarians are pretty close until you get to the legislative aspect and then we typically part ways because liberals would advocate laws for a lot of things that libertarians wouldn't.

And of course when it comes to economic matters we're not even in the same universe.

Closest you'll get is foreign policy, at least in the sense of limiting wars.  But again, we part ways on things such as intervention and nation building.


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## whitehall (Oct 21, 2012)

Dante said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
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> > Dante said:
> ...



Why would Gary Johnson try to run for president on the republican ticket if democrats claim to best represent the libertarian values? Was he mistaken?


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## whitehall (Oct 22, 2012)

Do current libertarians concede that the whole libertarian movement is just a democrat party dirty trick?


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Oct 22, 2012)

> I don't agree. Socially, liberals and libertarians are pretty close until you get to the legislative aspect and then we typically part ways because liberals would advocate laws for a lot of things that libertarians wouldn't.



Interesting how libertarians have bought to rightist myth that liberals think that all problems can be solved by government  which liberals dont believe, btw. 

Liberals merely perceive government as a common venue where Americans can realize a shared goal: dealing with a Great Depression, fighting a World War, sending a man to the moon.  



> And of course when it comes to economic matters we're not even in the same universe.



Liberals advocate fiscal responsibility as much as any other political philosophy; its liberals' economic pragmatism and rejection of fiscal dogma that confuses libertarians and enrages conservatives. 

And liberals acceptance of Commerce Clause jurisprudence is an example of that pragmatism; the post _Lochner_ era Court established the foundation of a modern American industrialized society not possible with libertarian and conservative reactionaryism. 



> Closest you'll get is foreign policy, at least in the sense of limiting wars. But again, we part ways on things such as intervention and nation building.



Interventionism and nation-building are neo-con policies.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Oct 22, 2012)

whitehall said:


> Do current libertarians concede that the whole libertarian movement is just a democrat party dirty trick?



Yes. George Soros pays my bills for me to go around pretending to be a libertarian.


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## Oddball (Oct 22, 2012)

whitehall said:


> Do current libertarians concede that the whole libertarian movement is just a democrat party dirty trick?


Funny....I've been thinking the same thing about the GOP since 1995.


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## JWBooth (Oct 22, 2012)

whitehall said:


> Do current libertarians concede that the whole libertarian movement is just a democrat party dirty trick?


So history and political philosophy are not your strong suits.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Oct 22, 2012)

JWBooth said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > Do current libertarians concede that the whole libertarian movement is just a democrat party dirty trick?
> ...



Can probably rule out critical thinking as well.


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## Grandma (Oct 23, 2012)

Libertarians that I know describe themselves as being fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

Liberals like them because they can come to the table and negotiate, unlike the far reich who simply have a "my way or the highway" mentality.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Oct 23, 2012)

Grandma said:


> Libertarians that I know describe themselves as being *fiscally conservative* and *socially liberal*.
> 
> Liberals like them because they can come to the table and negotiate, unlike the far reich who simply have a "my way or the highway" mentality.



Those terms don't actually mean anything. If Bush was a conservative, then I'm most certainly not a "fiscal conservative." If Obama is a liberal, then I'm not "socially liberal." I'm fiscally libertarian, and socially libertarian.


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## whitehall (Oct 25, 2012)

JWBooth said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > Do current libertarians concede that the whole libertarian movement is just a democrat party dirty trick?
> ...



History is ....well....history and I doubt if the current crop of libertarians can spell philosophy. I seemed to have struck a nerve with this thread and the philosophical bugs are crawling out from under the philosophical rocks.


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## Paulie (Oct 25, 2012)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> > I don't agree. Socially, liberals and libertarians are pretty close until you get to the legislative aspect and then we typically part ways because liberals would advocate laws for a lot of things that libertarians wouldn't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, I guess liberals are fiscally responsible.  If you like the idea of increased taxes to balance the budget rather than cutting spending.

You're right...liberals don't advocate interventionism and nation building at all.  Truman and Kennedy didn't initiate major conflicts during their time, with one using nuclear weapons.  Clinton didn't send troops to multiple different countries in Europe and Africa.  Obama hasn't gotten involved AT ALL in the Middle East.


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## PredFan (Oct 25, 2012)

Paulie said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Liberals are more libertarian than conservatives. Republicans have hijacked the term 'libertarian'
> ...



Agree.



Paulie said:


> And of course when it comes to economic matters we're not even in the same universe.



Well put.



Paulie said:


> Closest you'll get is foreign policy, at least in the sense of limiting wars.  But again, we part ways on things such as intervention and nation building.



Democrats and progressives talk the talk on war and peace, but they fail big time when actually in power.


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## Uncensored2008 (Oct 25, 2012)

Dante said:


> Liberals are more libertarian than conservatives. Republicans have hijacked the term 'libertarian'



You're more retard than anything.

Libertarians are founded on the ideal of Murray Rothbard. That is, we are Laissez Faire Capitalists and Minarchist in government. We have a fair amount in common with the Republicans, but nothing in common with you leftist-regressives.


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