# Vaccinated people spread covid



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 30, 2021)

wow 





__





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We must be forced to get an experimental vaccine that was created in 9months. One which has 0% effectiveness (vaxxed spread it at the same rate of the unvaxxed).

Yet, you’re calling us Nazis and murderers for not getting it.

You DemonRats are sick, brainwashed, and retarded


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## bugs (Jul 30, 2021)

Confused yet...................???????????
Trust Them?
LOL!


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## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 30, 2021)

They admit the vaccine doesn’t stop the spread, but they want everyone to get it and “will make life as tough as possible for the unvaccinated”

These are crimes against humanity and go against Nuremberg Laws


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## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 30, 2021)

bugs said:


> Confused yet...................???????????
> Trust Them?
> LOL!


How are you supposed to trust the science, when the science clearly shows you to not trust it???


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## pknopp (Jul 30, 2021)

I always chuckle at headlines like this.

 Vaccinated _might_ spread the virus.

 The same headline could be 

 Vaccinated _might_ not spread the virus.

 Or 

 Vaccinated _might_ forget to turn their alarms on at night.........

 It's really a worthless headline. 

 But all the same this really hurts one of the arguments often made. The argument has been that you might be young and have a great immune system and not have much worry but you need to get vaccinated to protect others.

 Now they are saying "nevermind", that _might_ not be the case.


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## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 30, 2021)

pknopp said:


> I always chuckle at headlines like this.
> 
> Vaccinated _might_ spread the virus.
> 
> ...


Everyday it changes.

To believe these people, you’re either severely brainwashed or retarded


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## AntonToo (Jul 30, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> View attachment 519169
> wow
> 
> 
> ...



0% effectiveness??? *Stop spreading bullshit.*

The vaccine is highly effective (93+%) at preventing people getting seriously ill from the new variants, which was always it's main purpose.


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## Gabe Lackmann (Jul 30, 2021)

Intentionally designed to confuse.


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## MinTrut (Jul 30, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> Everyday it changes.
> 
> To believe these people, you’re either severely brainwashed or retarded


Both.


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## MinTrut (Jul 30, 2021)

antontoo said:


> 0% effectiveness??? *Stop spreading bullshit.*
> 
> The vaccine is highly effective (93+%) at preventing people getting seriously ill from the new variants, which was always it's main purpose.


I think Democrats weaponizing Covid to burn the country down & seize power that they'll lose in 2022 is sexy.

But not as sexy as believing everything you're told by the MSM (no matter how insane) & wearing two masks.


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## BULLDOG (Jul 30, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> View attachment 519169
> wow
> 
> 
> ...


To be clear, a vaccine that drastically reduced deaths has been distributed, and saved countless lives, but you think we should have waited until they developed a vaccine for a varient that didn't exist at that time. You're pretty goofy, aren't you?


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## AntonToo (Jul 30, 2021)

Gabe Lackmann said:


> Intentionally designed to confuse.


What is it about Covid-19 Delta variant being more contagious that "confuses" you?

Are seriously so dumb that you have difficulty understanding that?


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## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 30, 2021)

antontoo said:


> 0% effectiveness??? *Stop spreading bullshit.*
> 
> The vaccine is highly effective (93+%) at preventing people getting seriously ill from the new variants, which was always it's main purpose.


That science could change any moment.

Israel has the highest percentage of people vaccinated and now they need a “booster” because so many vaccinated people are in the hospital 









						COVID: Bennett vows decision on 3rd shot is near as cases top 2,000
					

On Tuesday morning the number of serious patients stood at 138, compared to 124 on the day before.




					m.jpost.com
				




These experts lost their credibility a long time ago.

You are an idiot that will keep on listening to the boy crying wolf


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## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 30, 2021)

antontoo said:


> What is it about Covid-19 Delta being more contagious that "confuses" you?
> 
> Are seriously so dumb that you have difficulty understanding that?


What confuses you about people not wanting to get an ineffective vaccine for a virus that doesn’t pose a threat to 99% of the population.

I am 30 yrs old. Healthy. I’m a bodybuilder, which is one of the healthiest lifestyles. I have no medical conditions.

Anyone forcing a vaccine that skipped years of trials on me is threatening my life

Please fuck off, you imbecile


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## AntonToo (Jul 30, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> That science could change any moment.
> 
> Israel has the highest percentage of people vaccinated and now they need a “booster” because so many vaccinated people are in the hospital
> 
> ...



More bullshit.

The science is changing because Covid has changed. And it changed exactly BECAUSE unvaccinated kept reiterating it.

Israel has had a total of 20 Covid deaths over the past month. You can compare that 1400+ deaths in January.

Vaccine *CLEARLY* works.


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## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 30, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> To be clear, a vaccine that drastically reduced deaths has been distributed, and saved countless lives, but you think we should have waited until they developed a vaccine for a varient that didn't exist at that time. You're pretty goofy, aren't you?


If you want it take it, but don’t force it on me.
All of a sudden you care about the lives of unvaccinated white Nazis?


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## pknopp (Jul 30, 2021)

antontoo said:


> More bullshit.
> 
> The science is changing because Covid has changed. And it changed exactly BECAUSE unvaccinated kept reiterating it.
> 
> ...



 The claim is now that vaccinated people are spreading it. With that being the headline, what difference does it make? Does that not then make the decision a personal one?


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## Jim H - VA USA (Jul 30, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> View attachment 519169
> wow
> 
> 
> ...


_"As of Thursday, 882 people were tied to the Provincetown outbreak. Among those living in Massachusetts, 74% of them were fully immunized, yet officials said the vast majority were also reporting symptoms. Seven people were reported hospitalized."_









						CDC shares 'pivotal discovery' on COVID-19 breakthrough infections that led to new mask guidance
					

A group of vaccinated beachgoers changed our knowledge of the delta variant.




					abc7chicago.com
				




The vaccines are not working.  No surprise there.  We have had influenza vaccines for decades, but in a good year, they are only about 50% effective.  Some years, less than 20%.

They are being dishonest when they blame the unvaccinated.  It's as clear as day, and anyone who thinks that when the CDC announced that vaccinated people need to mask up again it was for some unscientific reason other than vaccine ineffectiveness is not thinking soundly.


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## EvMetro (Jul 30, 2021)

antontoo said:


> The science is changing because Covid has changed.


The science changes every day, according to what Facebook and Fau Chi say the science is that day.


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## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 30, 2021)

pknopp said:


> The claim is now that vaccinated people are spreading it. With that being the headline, what difference does it make? Does that not then make the decision a personal one?





EvMetro said:


> The science changes every day, according to what Facebook and Fau Chi say the science is that day.



Exactly just the day before it was the “pandemic of the unvaccinated”

The flip flopping is insane. It’s as if DemonRats have a memory of a goldfish


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## EvMetro (Jul 30, 2021)

pknopp said:


> I always chuckle at headlines like this.
> 
> Vaccinated _might_ spread the virus.
> 
> ...


Vaccinated people are dying.  They are dying from the jab, they are dying from delta, they are dying from covid.  Vaccinated people are DYING.


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## theHawk (Jul 30, 2021)

antontoo said:


> 0% effectiveness??? *Stop spreading bullshit.*
> 
> The vaccine is highly effective (93+%) at preventing people getting seriously ill from the new variants, which was always it's main purpose.


93+% of people who get WuFlu do not get seriously ill.

So what you are saying is the vaccine isn’t anymore effective than our normal immune system.


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## Synthaholic (Jul 30, 2021)

theHawk said:


> 93+% of people who get WuFlu do not get seriously ill.


Define seriously ill.


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## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 30, 2021)

Synthaholic said:


> Why are you so stupid?  Simple question. Were you dropped on your head as a  baby?


Do you care to comment on the topic?


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## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 30, 2021)

Synthaholic said:


> Define seriously ill.


You


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## Synthaholic (Jul 30, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> Do you care to comment on the topic?


The topic confirms that you must get vaccinated.


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## AntonToo (Jul 30, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> The science changes every day, according to what Facebook and Fau Chi say the science is that day.



Again that is bullshit.

Science is a process that examines what is happening and what has happened was a mutation of Covid-19 into even more contagious variant called Delta.

Nature of Covid-19 has changed and science is explaining to you how.


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## 22lcidw (Jul 30, 2021)

Synthaholic said:


> Define seriously ill.


All I know is that babies and those in the womb are dying in numbers.


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## wamose (Jul 30, 2021)

The only possible reason that Democrats would try to mandate that people get a vaccination that they say doesn't work would be if they were on the take from the pharmaceuticals. That's the only possible explanation for such a hairbrained idea.


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## BULLDOG (Jul 30, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> View attachment 519169
> wow
> 
> 
> ...


People vaccinated for polio can still cary and spread the disease. Are you against polio vaccinations too?


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## BULLDOG (Jul 30, 2021)

wamose said:


> The only possible reason that Democrats would try to mandate that people get a vaccination that they say doesn't work would be if they were on the take from the pharmaceuticals. That's the only possible explanation for such a hairbrained idea.


Who said it doesn't work?


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## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 30, 2021)

wamose said:


> The only possible reason that Democrats would try to mandate that people get a vaccination that they say doesn't work would be if they were on the take from the pharmaceuticals. That's the only possible explanation for such a hairbrained idea.


Or they want to divide everyone more.

Or they’re eugenicists who want to depopulate


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## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 30, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> Who said it doesn't work?


The front page of CNN.

If vaccinated people are just as likely to get and spread the virus as unvaccinated people and vaccinated people are in ICUs in every other country then I think it’s pretty easy to come to a conclusion


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## EvMetro (Jul 30, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> Who said it doesn't work?


When lefties support mask mandates for vaccinated people, they are demonstrating that they do not believe the vaccine works.  If the vaccine worked, vaccinated people would not need masks, and they would not be getting covid and delta.


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## Sunsettommy (Jul 30, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> People vaccinated for polio can still cary and spread the disease. Are you against polio vaccinations too?



That is a stupid claim since BECAUSE of the Vaccine it has been eradicated from USA.

CDC
Polio Elimination in the United States​
*Thanks to a successful vaccination program, the United States has been polio-free since 1979*
LINK


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## RadicalRedneck (Jul 30, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated people are dying.  They are dying from the jab, they are dying from delta, they are dying from covid.  Vaccinated people are DYING.


*NOT TRUE*!


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## MinTrut (Jul 30, 2021)

antontoo said:


> What is it about Covid-19 Delta variant being more contagious that "confuses" you?
> 
> Are seriously so dumb that you have difficulty understanding that?


Delta variant: Basically a mild flu.

And Democrats are panicking because they can't burn the country down twice because flu.

Now they know how the Nazis felt in 1944.


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## BluesLegend (Jul 30, 2021)

They are LYING only days prior experts at the CDC said it would be quite rare for someone vaccinated to spread the variant. Then as if by government lying magic days later a vaccinated person is a variant super spreader. Someone flick stupid Biden in the ear.


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## BULLDOG (Jul 30, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> The front page of CNN.
> 
> If vaccinated people are just as likely to get and spread the virus as unvaccinated people and vaccinated people are in ICUs in every other country then I think it’s pretty easy to come to a conclusion


. If you can't see the drastic reduction in cases and deaths since the vaccine was released, you are stupid. I can't help your stupidity.


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## pknopp (Jul 30, 2021)

Synthaholic said:


> Define seriously ill.



 For about 12 hours I felt like I had a low grade flu.


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## BULLDOG (Jul 30, 2021)

BluesLegend said:


> They are LYING only days prior experts at the CDC said it would be quite rare for someone vaccinated to spread the variant. Then as if by government lying magic days later a vaccinated person is a variant super spreader. Someone flick stupid Biden in the ear.


Oh, my. A disease didn't respond exactly as the best medical experts expected. I'll bet that has never happened before.


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## CowboyTed (Jul 30, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> View attachment 519169
> wow
> 
> 
> ...


Meanwhile back at the Rest of the World









						Delta Coronavirus Variant Infects All Unvaccinated Guests At Australian Birthday Party
					

100% of unvaccinated attendees have Covid-19, but six fully-vaccinated healthcare workers at the party have tested negative.




					www.forbes.com
				




Lets not underestimate, this virus is highly transmittable and the vaccines are not fool proof from infection but it helps...  No country has got to the level yet where the vaccine can supress while delta is effecting it..


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## BULLDOG (Jul 30, 2021)

Sunsettommy said:


> That is a stupid claim since BECAUSE of the Vaccine it has been eradicated from USA.
> 
> CDC
> Polio Elimination in the United States​
> ...


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## Lesh (Jul 30, 2021)

Newsflash.

ALL people can spread the virus. Vaccinated people less so.

Get vaccinated.


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## LibertyKid (Jul 30, 2021)

As I understand it:  Vaccinated people have always been able to get infected and carry the virus just like unvaxed people.  The vax is only to curb the side effects and symptoms of the virus and to boost your immune system.  That's it.  For the most part, I don't believe the vax was ever meant to stop the spread, but rather stop the symptoms and curb potential death.  If you believe the vax is suppose to "stop covid", that's a false narrative.


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## Synthaholic (Jul 30, 2021)

The moderators are deleting my posts from this thread. They want one-sided arguments. So y'all have fun.


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## Sunsettommy (Jul 30, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> View attachment 519209



It sure is puzzling that YOU ignored the fact that it has been gone from the country since 1979, DESPITE that 99% of Americans are Vaccinated against it. 

Heck after they started vaccinating the people, it rapidly vanished from the country since the late 1950's, that sounds like there isn't any transmission of the virus by those who are vaccinated.

*BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!*


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## LibertyKid (Jul 30, 2021)

CowboyTed said:


> Lets not underestimate, this virus is highly transmittable and the vaccines are not fool proof from infection but it helps...  No country has got to the level yet where the vaccine can supress while delta is effecting it..



My actual personal experience.  
My son since he's been 2 years of age, every fall comes down with a croupy type of cough due to allergies.  Of course last year, the cough started during the change of seasons (as we had grown accustomed too. Of course, this is during the hype of Covid and I had to take my son to the Dr. to be evaluated and of course they tested him for Covid.  No other symptoms, just the cough.  Dr. said that she would have normally prescribed the steroid and be on our way.  This was a Wednesday.  By Saturday, no call on the test results.  My son's cough was pretty much gone.  But I call the Dr's office to see if they got the results.  Positive for Covid.  My jaw hit the floor.  Really??  

I have a shared parenting plan with my Ex and have my son every other week.  Based on the incubation period and the stated transmissibility of Covid, not only should my household have come down with Covid, but so should my Ex's.  We all got tested as soon as we found out my son tested positive.  Everyone came back negative.  Prior to getting my son tested, the previous Sunday we had a few people over for a birthday gather.  All negative.  My in-laws were exposed from another couple that tested positive.  The viral load would have put them at high risk of contracting.  Negative.  

I can't explain how, why or whom this virus chooses to infect.  But my own personal experience, not being persuaded by any political bias, is that this virus is not as contagious as the science, politicians, and MSM claim it is.  Or, the tests being administered were flawed and providing wrong positive/negative test results and the tests can't fully differentiate between Covid and other viruses.


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## wamose (Jul 30, 2021)

How is this goof going to push vaccine if it doesn't do anything? All it looks like now is another big pharma scam to sell more vaccines. Either that or Democrats are doing another one of their, 'I don't know WTF I'm doing so I'll just create another panic'.


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## CowboyTed (Jul 30, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated people are dying.  They are dying from the jab, they are dying from delta, they are dying from covid.  Vaccinated people are DYING.


Sorry EvMetro...

Prove people are dying *from* the jab... Not people have died who got the jab..

The numbers dying who are vaccinated compared unvaccinated is like 97 to 1... Also consider high risk people are far more likely vaccinated that is pretty incredible...

The big data is not in but this is interesting:








						Statistics show the stark risks of not getting vaccinated against COVID-19
					

Recent figures from states and cities throughout the United States reveal the extent to which the virus is impacting people who are not fully vaccinated.




					abcnews.go.com


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## Gabe Lackmann (Jul 30, 2021)

antontoo said:


> What is it about Covid-19 Delta variant being more contagious that "confuses" you?
> 
> Are seriously so dumb that you have difficulty understanding that?


Great...it may be more contagious...who gives a rat's ass? 

One stat should matter most...and you NEVER hear, or see it posted

Mortality Rate. 

The HIGHEST I have seen is 1.8% (highly debatable)

What is the average age of a covid fatality? 77 years, in the USA
Average life expectancy? 78 years


Keep believing the hype.


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## Gabe Lackmann (Jul 30, 2021)

antontoo said:


> More bullshit.
> 
> The science is changing because Covid has changed. And it changed exactly BECAUSE unvaccinated kept reiterating it.
> 
> ...


Well then YOU take and STFU.


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## CowboyTed (Jul 30, 2021)

wamose said:


> How is this goof going to push vaccine if it doesn't do anything? All it looks like now is another big pharma scam to sell more vaccines. Either that or Democrats are doing another one of their, 'I don't know WTF I'm doing so I'll just create another panic'.


Don't fact and reality get in the way of a good conspiracy theory...


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## EvMetro (Jul 30, 2021)

CowboyTed said:


> Sorry EvMetro...
> 
> Prove people are dying *from* the jab... Not people have died who got the jab..
> 
> ...


Vaccinated people are dying. They are dying from the jab, they are dying from delta, they are dying from covid. Vaccinated people are DYING.


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## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 30, 2021)

CowboyTed said:


> Meanwhile back at the Rest of the World
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Synthaholic said:


> The moderators are deleting my posts from this thread. They want one-sided arguments. So y'all have fun.


Because you’re a troll and don’t provide any propelling arguments


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## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 30, 2021)

I can’t wait to hear the CDC say that the vaccine doesn’t protect against the Delta and that you will now have to take the booster.

Demonrats will put all of this behind them. Never admit they were wrong. Then they’ll be back to forcing us to take the booster


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## EvMetro (Jul 30, 2021)

Synthaholic said:


> The moderators are deleting my posts from this thread. They want one-sided arguments. So y'all have fun.


This is where you and I have something in common.  Censorship changes everything.  We may be on opposite sides of the aisle, but I want to read your posts in the context that you intended.


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## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 30, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> As I understand it:  Vaccinated people have always been able to get infected and carry the virus just like unvaxed people.  The vax is only to curb the side effects and symptoms of the virus and to boost your immune system.  That's it.  For the most part, I don't believe the vax was ever meant to stop the spread, but rather stop the symptoms and curb potential death.  If you believe the vax is suppose to "stop covid", that's a false narrative.


Which is why we’re never going back to normal, yet they bribe people by saying if you’re vaxxed you can get your freedoms back. But then they just steal your freedom again


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## BluesLegend (Jul 30, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> Oh, my. A disease didn't respond exactly as the best medical experts expected. I'll bet that has never happened before.


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## BULLDOG (Jul 30, 2021)

Sunsettommy said:


> It sure is puzzling that YOU ignored the fact that it has been gone from the country since 1979, DESPITE that 99% of Americans are Vaccinated against it.
> 
> Heck after they started vaccinating the people, it rapidly vanished from the country since the late 1950's, that sounds like there isn't any transmission of the virus by those who are vaccinated.
> 
> *BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!*


The polio vaccine does not, and never did prevent a vaccinated person from being a carrier, but it was effective enough to virtually eliminate polio in the US.  That link was from the Pennsylvania Department of Health, but any other medical authority will tell you the same thing. You're really not very smart.


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## LordBrownTrout (Jul 30, 2021)

At this point, the gullible will believe anything the media, pharma, cdc, tell them.  No questions asked.  We have a media, govt, pharma, tech who are all complicit in complete censorship of any opposition to a virus that has a 99.7 percent recovery.  There is something sinister and nefarious afoot..  If this isn't sending up red flags, then we're done.  I could understand the concern if this virus had a 30-40 percent kill rate but it doesn't.  Something very wrong is happening and we will see atrocities beyond imaginable horror.


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## amethyst (Jul 30, 2021)

I bet they transmitted it to one another.


Entire Fully-Vaxxed DC Doctors' Office Tests Positive for Covid-19 -  The Liberty Daily. Entire Fully-Vaxxed DC Doctors' Office Tests Positive for Covid-19 -  The Liberty Daily


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## LordBrownTrout (Jul 30, 2021)

amethyst said:


> I bet they transmitted it to one another.
> 
> 
> Entire Fully-Vaxxed DC Doctors' Office Tests Positive for Covid-19 -  The Liberty Daily. Entire Fully-Vaxxed DC Doctors' Office Tests Positive for Covid-19 -  The Liberty Daily



Its happening at an alarming rate around the US.  Its very disturbing and ominous.


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## AntonToo (Jul 30, 2021)

MinTrut said:


> Delta variant: Basically a mild flu.



SOMETHING killed well over half a million people in America over the last year above and beyond expected death rate...can you think of ANYTHING that could've done it?

Hmm I know, maybe it was Covid-19, which now had gone on steroids with the Delta veriant.

Mild flu??? You are basically retarded.


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## EvMetro (Jul 30, 2021)

Vaccinated people are super spreaders


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Jul 30, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> We must be forced to get an experimental vaccine that was created in 9months. One which has 0% effectiveness (vaxxed spread it at the same rate of the unvaxxed).


The covid vaxx is NOT experimental








						CORRECTED-Fact Check- COVID-19 vaccines are not experimental and they have not skipped trial stages 
					

Correction, April 30, 2021: An earlier version of this check described the Pfizer/BioNtech, Moderna and J&J vaccines as being approved for use in the United States. This has been corrected to say these vaccines have been authorized for emergency use by the FDA. Vaccine makers...




					www.reuters.com
				




And the fact that an infected vaxxed person has a similar viral load DOES NOT mean that it is '"zero percent" effective. You own link says that they are less likely to catch it. We also know that they are less likely to get seriously sick or to even have symtoms at all.

You might have also heard that 97% of hospitalizations and vertually all deaths havebeen among the unvaxxed. Tell us more about how WE are retarded and brainwashed.


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## LordBrownTrout (Jul 30, 2021)




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## MinTrut (Jul 30, 2021)

antontoo said:


> SOMETHING killed well over half a million people in America over the last year above and beyond expected death rate...can you think of ANYTHING that could've done it?


Co-morbidities; the oldest Boomers turned 75 in 2020.


antontoo said:


> Hmm I know, maybe it was Covid-19, which now had gone on steroids with the Delta veriant.


Nope - co-morbidities, and Delta's basically a mild flu.


antontoo said:


> Mild flu???


Yup.


antontoo said:


> You are basically retarded.


Fallacious trolling/personal attack.


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## BULLDOG (Jul 30, 2021)

LordBrownTrout said:


>


Yep. There is no shortage of crazies.


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## LordBrownTrout (Jul 30, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> The covid vaxx is NOT experimental
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It is an experimental shot.  New technology never before tested on humans.


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## John T. Ford (Jul 30, 2021)

pknopp said:


> I always chuckle at headlines like this.
> 
> Vaccinated _might_ spread the virus.
> 
> ...


Dumbass Leftist ....

The CDC has already weighed in on this.

Vaccinated people are spreading the virus.


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## AntonToo (Jul 30, 2021)

MinTrut said:


> Co-morbidities; the oldest Boomers turned 75 in 2020.
> 
> Nope - co-morbidities, and Delta's basically a mild flu.
> 
> ...


why did co-morbidies not kill people before at rates we see over the last year?

Because what you are peddling is ignorant, really detached bullshit, that's why. Covid-19 is a novel virus and has been much more deadly than good ol' treatable, and vaccinated against, influenza.

As a novel virus in 1918 Influenza killed tons of people btw.


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## Clipper (Jul 30, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> They admit the vaccine doesn’t stop the spread, but they want everyone to get it and “will make life as tough as possible for the unvaccinated”
> 
> These are crimes against humanity and go against Nuremberg L





Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> What confuses you about people not wanting to get an ineffective vaccine for a virus that doesn’t pose a threat to 99% of the population.
> 
> I am 30 yrs old. Healthy. I’m a bodybuilder, which is one of the healthiest lifestyles. I have no medical conditions.
> 
> ...


You have a better chance of dying from the virus if you're unvaccinated. It doesn't matter how healthy you may be, Joe Jock.

Try exercising your brain instead of your glutes. It may save your life, gym rat.


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## pknopp (Jul 30, 2021)

John T. Ford said:


> Dumbass Leftist ....
> 
> The CDC has already weighed in on this.
> 
> Vaccinated people are spreading the virus.



 Which has nothing to do with the wording of the article.


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## BULLDOG (Jul 30, 2021)

LordBrownTrout said:


> At this point, the gullible will believe anything the media, pharma, cdc, tell them.  No questions asked.  We have a media, govt, pharma, tech who are all complicit in complete censorship of any opposition to a virus that has a 99.7 percent recovery.  There is something sinister and nefarious afoot..  If this isn't sending up red flags, then we're done.  I could understand the concern if this virus had a 30-40 percent kill rate but it doesn't.  Something very wrong is happening and we will see atrocities beyond imaginable horror.


Asking you to wear a mask is an atrocity beyond imaginable horror? I didn't think you could get any crazier, but evidently you did.


----------



## Osiris-ODS (Jul 30, 2021)

Sunsettommy said:


> It sure is puzzling that YOU ignored the fact that it has been gone from the country since 1979, DESPITE that 99% of Americans are Vaccinated against it.
> 
> Heck after they started vaccinating the people, it rapidly vanished from the country since the late 1950's, that sounds like there isn't any transmission of the virus by those who are vaccinated.
> 
> *BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!*



I've brought this up a number of times on here, but people engaging in this discussion do not seem to understand there are different types of vaccines. There are vaccines known as "sterilizing vaccines" that prevent infection and transmission, and there are vaccines known as "non-sterilizing, infection permissive vaccines" that do not prevent infection or transmission, they're intended to lessen the severity of the disease (the impact on your body). The Covid vaccines, like the common trivalent flu vaccines, are the latter (non-sterilizing infection-permissive). Vaccines like the measles vaccine, etc, are the former. There are risks associated with many vaccines of the latter type due to whats known as antibody dependent enhancement (ADE) when vaccine induced antibodies are exposed to a serotype variant of the original vaccinated virus. There is no way to know how this will play out with Covid-19 vaccines because we don't have enough data on the Delta variant in this context and we likely haven't experienced all of the variants that will eventually exist, but it's worth noting that vaccines for prior Coronaviruses were all shelved during trials precisely because of ADE. 

Yet people keep talking in circles about this without any schooling in microbiology or the first clue what they're talking about.


----------



## AntonToo (Jul 30, 2021)

Gabe Lackmann said:


> Great...it may be more contagious...who gives a rat's ass?
> 
> One stat should matter most...and you NEVER hear, or see it posted
> 
> ...



Did you just seriously say that?

1.8% of 330 million is ~6 million.

Maybe YOU are ok with 6 million of your fellow Americans dying because you can't be bothered to wear a mask or get vaccinated, but I'm not.


----------



## Toro (Jul 30, 2021)

bugs said:


> Confused yet...................???????????
> Trust Them?
> LOL!



Make sure you totally distrust everything experts say.

Darwin will take care of the rest.


----------



## Gabe Lackmann (Jul 30, 2021)

antontoo said:


> Did you just seriously say that?
> 
> 1.8% of 330 million is ~6 million.
> 
> Maybe YOU are ok with 6 million of your fellow Americans dying because you can't be bothered to wear a mask or get vaccinated, but I'm not.


I stated that number is HIGHLY debatable given the data gathering methods, and rules conducted by the government. 

The most glaring of which is death with a Covid diagnosis within 28 days is considered a death FROM Covid.
Then there are the PCR testing methods which were extremely abused (40 cycles, opposed to the recommended 20 cycles). a UK study (they used PCR as well) stated false positive diagnosis as high as 90%.
So...yeah, 6 million...but who REALLY knows?


----------



## AntonToo (Jul 30, 2021)

Gabe Lackmann said:


> I stated that number is HIGHLY debatable given the data gathering methods, and rules conducted by the government.
> 
> The most glaring of which is death with a Covid diagnosis within 28 days is considered a death FROM Covid.
> Then there are the PCR testing methods which were extremely abused (40 cycles, opposed to the recommended 20 cycles). a UK study (they used PCR as well) stated false positive diagnosis as high as 90%.
> So...yeah, 6 million...but who REALLY knows?



Cool dead end story.

But here is the bottom line: Excess death statistics, which are mortality actuals that are not based on diagnosis, clearly support official Covid-19 death counts. Excessive deaths we've experienced since pandemic began is nowhere near what we see in "mild influenza" seasons (and thats with all the preventative measures that wiped out nearly all cases of influenza in the last year).














						How Covid Upended a Century of Patterns in U.S. Deaths (Published 2021)
					

The pandemic brought a record uptick in deaths, interrupted a downward trend in death rates and spurred the highest death rate above normal ever recorded in the country.



					www.nytimes.com


----------



## Lesh (Jul 30, 2021)

The fucknuttery of the Trump right is astounding

WTF happened to this country?


----------



## Lesh (Jul 30, 2021)

Excess deaths are FAR above any normal year.

Jesus

WTF!


----------



## Gabe Lackmann (Jul 30, 2021)

antontoo said:


> Cool dead end story.
> 
> But here is the bottom line: Excess death statistics, which are mortality actuals that are not based on diagnosis, clearly support official Covid-19 death counts. Excessive deaths we've experienced since pandemic began is nowhere near what we see in "mild influenza" seasons.
> 
> ...


Oh fuck off! LOL!!! Where is there justification for a 15% jump in overall deaths? LOL!
So total deaths worldwide were up...what 17% in 2020? 
You're gonna need more than some fucking bar graph to prove that one asshole....lol!


----------



## AntonToo (Jul 30, 2021)

Gabe Lackmann said:


> Oh fuck off! LOL!!! Where is there justification for a 15% jump in overall deaths? LOL!
> So total deaths worldwide were up...what 17% in 2020?
> You're gonna need more than some fucking bar graph to prove that one asshole....lol!


What the hell? These are standard mortality statistics, their "justification" is the same it's always been - PEOPLE DYING.


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Jul 30, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> Asking you to wear a mask is an atrocity beyond imaginable horror? I didn't think you could get any crazier, but evidently you did.



No, you missed the point.  The mask will be the least of our problems.  You'd better wake up.


----------



## MinTrut (Jul 30, 2021)

antontoo said:


> why did co-morbidies not kill people before at rates we see over the last year?


Assuming we can trust the rates/numbers - which is a big assumption - we get these strong flu-like viruses about once in a generation, and this time, their appearance coincided with the oldest Boomers turning 75.

So it's not rocket surgery.


antontoo said:


> Because what you are peddling is ignorant, really detached bullshit, that's why.


Nope.


antontoo said:


> Covid-19 is a novel virus and has been much more deadly than good ol' treatable, and vaccinated against, influenza.


We get these about once every generation, yes.

Thank goodness the Delta variant is basically a mild flu, right? 


antontoo said:


> As a novel virus in 1918 Influenza killed tons of people btw.


Irrelevant (calling Covid Godwin), but an example of one of the once in a generation viruses we see; sanitary standards are VASTLY greater now than in 1918 when an earache could kill you.


----------



## BULLDOG (Jul 30, 2021)

LordBrownTrout said:


> No, you missed the point.  The mask will be the least of our problems.  You'd better wake up.


So are you gonna make me guess what your point might have been?


----------



## AntonToo (Jul 30, 2021)

MinTrut said:


> Assuming we can trust the rates/numbers - which is a big assumption - we get these strong flu-like viruses about once in a generation, and this time, their appearance coincided with the oldest Boomers turning 75.



And just like that, "mild" turned into "strong" on a turn of a dime.

Yes we have a potent novel virus....and even way to deal with it so it doesn't kill millions - *practice prevention untill vaccination. *You know, all the stuff yahoos like you fight tooth and nail.


----------



## Staidhup (Jul 30, 2021)

Not according to Dr F Head, or did you forget why he said we all need the vaccine? Love it, follow the science until it’s politically in expedient. Apparently the experts aren’t actually experts after all. I guess that is why they call it the practice of medicine, or should we say a game of darts.


----------



## MinTrut (Jul 30, 2021)

antontoo said:


> And just like that, "mild" turned into "strong" on a turn of a dime.


Nope. The original was strong - as I said - and the Delta mild - as I said.

Reading comprehension is a plus. 


antontoo said:


> Yes we have a potent novel virus....


We did, but only the vulnerable were vulnerable, as ever. 

Democrats chose to weaponize it politically, and burned the country down because they're more dangerous than Nazis.


antontoo said:


> and even way to deal with it so it doesn't kill millions -


Never a need - only the vulnerable were vulnerable, and they needed to look after themselves.


antontoo said:


> *practice prevention untill vaccination. *


If you're vulnerable/okay with the experimental vaccine, sure.


antontoo said:


> You know, all the stuff yahoos like you fight tooth and nail.


You know, personal attacks are the most unimaginative form of fallacious trolling.


----------



## zaangalewa (Jul 30, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> View attachment 519169
> wow
> 
> 
> ...



Indeed it was created here in Germany from BionTech/Pfizer in only two days. The rest of the time "we" - people from about 60 nations of the world - needed to make all important tests. In all other cases it was similar, I guess.



Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> One which has 0% effectiveness (vaxxed spread it at the same rate of the unvaxxed).



Vaccines are very effective - not 100% - but very effective. In case someone gets an infection, although he was vaccinated (an exception from the rule not to get infected) then he's not so heavy symptoms and the viral load is lower. So also the chance is lower to get infected in case a single vaccination works not perfectly.



Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> Yet, you’re calling us Nazis and murderers for not getting it.
> 
> You DemonRats are sick, brainwashed, and retarded



Emotional hate scrap now. That's a "must be so" in the conversations in the USA.

As far as I can see makes your message from CNN not a big sense here in Germany. Also not in case of the delta and delta-plus variants of the Sars-Co-V2 virus.

Now comes my emotional scrap: What is the name of the US-American officials, who said so? Mr. Rumpelstiltskin and Mother Holle?


----------



## AntonToo (Jul 31, 2021)

MinTrut said:


> Nope. The original was strong - as I said - and the Delta mild - as I said.



You want to keep making a total fool of yourself? Don't let me stop you.


----------



## j-mac (Jul 31, 2021)

antontoo said:


> What is it about Covid-19 Delta variant being more contagious that "confuses" you?
> 
> Are seriously so dumb that you have difficulty understanding that?


Is it more deadly?


----------



## MinTrut (Jul 31, 2021)

antontoo said:


> You want to keep making a total fool of yourself?


It might interest you to know that incompetent people also lack competence in recognizing their incompetence.


antontoo said:


> Don't let me stop you.


Case in point...


----------



## MinTrut (Jul 31, 2021)

j-mac said:


> Is it more deadly?


Nope - it's basically a mild flu.

But we've got a live one here; completely incapable of grasping the obvious.


----------



## Deplorable Yankee (Jul 31, 2021)

Get your Trump death jabs

More than 125,000 breakthrough cases were reported by the CDC in just 38 states.



WASHINGTON — At least 125,000 fully vaccinated Americans have tested positive for Covid and 1,400 of those have died, according to data collected by NBC News.



But the total number of breakthrough cases is likely higher than 125,683, since nine states, including Pennsylvania and Missouri, did not provide any information, while 11, like Covid hotspot Florida, did not provide death and hospitalization totals. Four states gave death and hospitalization numbers, but not the full tally of cases.



*Continue reading…*


----------



## zaangalewa (Jul 31, 2021)

Deplorable Yankee said:


> Get your Trump death jabs
> 
> More than 125,000 breakthrough cases were reported by the CDC in just 38 states.
> 
> ...



So 1.2% died in case of vaccination failure. Sounds not high this risk. Do you have the age of all this people? Unfortunatelly the immune system of older persons is also often not the best - so perhaps it helps a third immunisation if the people are older.



Deplorable Yankee said:


> But the total number of breakthrough cases is likely higher than 125,683, since nine states, including Pennsylvania and Missouri, did not provide any information, while 11, like Covid hotspot Florida, did not provide death and hospitalization totals. Four states gave death and hospitalization numbers, but not the full tally of cases.
> 
> 
> 
> *Continue reading…*


----------



## Deplorable Yankee (Jul 31, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Do you have the age of this people? Unfortunatelly the immune system of older persons is also often not the best - so perhaps it helps a third immunisation, if the people are older.


Don't make excuses for the death dealers


----------



## zaangalewa (Jul 31, 2021)

Deplorable Yankee said:


> Don't make excuses for the death dealers



One moment - what for heavens sake do you try to start to discuss now with me?


----------



## bugs (Jul 31, 2021)

Toro said:


> Make sure you totally distrust everything experts say.
> 
> Darwin will take care of the rest.


OK..


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 31, 2021)

Clipper said:


> You have a better chance of dying from the virus if you're unvaccinated. It doesn't matter how healthy you may be, Joe Jock.
> 
> Try exercising your brain instead of your glutes. It may save your life, gym rat.


How’s about I live my life how I want to and you fuck off. Ok


----------



## JustAGuy1 (Jul 31, 2021)

Synthaholic said:


> The moderators are deleting my posts from this thread. They want one-sided arguments. So y'all have fun.



That's because you are no more than a hyper partisan troll.


----------



## EvMetro (Jul 31, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> The covid vaxx is NOT experimental
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you have gotten one of the experimental covid vaccines, you should learn about early in home treatment of covid.  Vaccinated people are getting covid, they are getting delta, and they are DYING.  Early at home treatment can be the difference between life and death.


----------



## Sinajuavi (Jul 31, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> View attachment 519169
> wow
> 
> 
> ...


You ARE Nazis and murderers! And that was true even before COVID showed up, boy!

Your news is bullshit. Vaccinated people are not GETTING the virus, but yes, we can spread it. If I see you maskless near me I will cough in your face, boy. You deserve a miserable Delta death as partial payment for the damage you've done to the world as a white-right Trumpoid traitor.

This pandemic persists because of YOU, jackass.


----------



## Sinajuavi (Jul 31, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> The science changes every day, according to what Facebook and Fau Chi say the science is that day.


And how would you know? You know nothing of science. In fact, science finds answers, but doesn't start off knowing them, so then you can claim they "changed their minds" and so on, but that only illustrates how little you know. I'm sure you never passed a science class. I'm sure you were an academic disaster. And you blame your teachers, right? Haaaa! Look in the mirror, loser!


----------



## Sinajuavi (Jul 31, 2021)

Jim H - VA USA said:


> _"As of Thursday, 882 people were tied to the Provincetown outbreak. Among those living in Massachusetts, 74% of them were fully immunized, yet officials said the vast majority were also reporting symptoms. Seven people were reported hospitalized."_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're desperate to find an excuse for your criminal irresponsibility, but you fail.

This is a lie... unvaccinated people have proven to be highly immune to infection, even from Delta.

You criminally-minded types who hate vaccinations... hope you catch it! Hope you don't pass it to innocent people, but I sincerely hope YOU catch it and have a negative outcome.


----------



## EvMetro (Jul 31, 2021)

Sinajuavi said:


> And how would you know? You know nothing of science. In fact, science finds answers, but doesn't start off knowing them, so then you can claim they "changed their minds" and so on, but that only illustrates how little you know. I'm sure you never passed a science class. I'm sure you were an academic disaster. And you blame your teachers, right? Haaaa! Look in the mirror, loser!


I don't know what direction science will mutate to tomorrow, since Fau Chi and Facebook dictate this.


----------



## Sinajuavi (Jul 31, 2021)

pknopp said:


> The claim is now that vaccinated people are spreading it. With that being the headline, what difference does it make? Does that not then make the decision a personal one?


No, try thinking it through again, because so far you've failed.

We vaccinated people can SPREAD it, but we rarely come down with it. See how it works, halfwit? That's why we're still wearing masks, to protect all the unvaccinated children. As for you... when I see a maskless adult, I remove my mask and cough on them. You think it's ok to be maskless, so it's ok for me to give you COVID! You asked for it, and you've got it!

Suckers.


----------



## Sinajuavi (Jul 31, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> That science could change any moment.
> 
> Israel has the highest percentage of people vaccinated and now they need a “booster” because so many vaccinated people are in the hospital
> 
> ...


You're the dropout pretending to discuss science. Just shut up.


----------



## EvMetro (Jul 31, 2021)

Sinajuavi said:


> This is a lie... unvaccinated people have proven to be highly immune to infection, even from Delta.


If you have been jabbed, be sure to learn about early at home treatment of covid.  Vaccinated people are getting covid, they are getting delta, and they are DYING.  early treatment can be the difference between life and death.


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 31, 2021)

Sinajuavi said:


> You ARE Nazis and murderers! And that was true even before COVID showed up, boy!
> 
> Your news is bullshit. Vaccinated people are not GETTING the virus, but yes, we can spread it. If I see you maskless near me I will cough in your face, boy. You deserve a miserable Delta death as partial payment for the damage you've done to the world as a white-right Trumpoid traitor.
> 
> This pandemic persists because of YOU, jackass.


You people are going utterly insane and seem to be self destructing. The Vaccine must really be The Mark Of The Beast! You sound like a possessed Demon.

BTW, The news source is CNN. Your most trusted news

LMFAO!


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 31, 2021)

Sinajuavi said:


> You're the dropout pretending to discuss science. Just shut up.


You have nothing to back yourself up. Just denial.

You are on the verge of a breakdown.  I recommend you getting some serious mental health counseling.


----------



## zaangalewa (Jul 31, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> If you have gotten one of the experimental covid vaccines, you should learn about early in home treatment of covid.  Vaccinated people are getting covid, ...



If someone is vaccinated then the immune system learned to react very fast. Sometimes the process "to learn" has problems - but in very most cases the immune system eliminates immediatelly the agressor: the Sars-Co-V2 virus. But an immune system is also able to be "sleepy" - for example if a person - better to say the body of a person - is under stress; another sickness is for example stress, drugs are a deadly stress, heavy bodily work is able to be stress, a boring life is also able to be stress - not to be needed from no one is able to be stress - not to sleep long enough is stress - and so on and so on. And a virus can change its "clothing" - so it needs a longer time for the immune stystem to identify such a variation.

But in nearly all cases of a vaccination failure an infection with Sars-Co-V2 is much more harmless, if someone had been vaccinated.


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 31, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> If someone is vaccinated then the immune system learned to react very fast. Sometimes the process "to learn" has problems - but in very most cases it eliminates immediatelly the agressor: the Sars-Co-V2 virus. But an immune system is also able to be "sleepy" - for example if a person - better to say the body of a person - is under stress; another sickness is for example stress, drugs are a deadly stress, heavy work is able to be stress, a boring life is also able to be stress - not to be needed from no one is able to be stress - and so on and so on. And a virus can change its "clothing" - so it needs a longer time oft the immune stystem to identify it.
> 
> But in nearly all cases of a vaccination failure an infection with Sars-Co-V2 is much more harmless, if someone had been vaccinated.


Ok but do you think everyone should be forced to take the vaccine against their will?

People can have whatever opinion they want on the vaccine. If people haven’t gotten it by now, they don’t want it.

If the Vaccine becomes mandated, then it was never optional to begin with.


----------



## Jim H - VA USA (Jul 31, 2021)

Sinajuavi said:


> You're desperate to find an excuse for your criminal irresponsibility, but you fail.
> 
> This is a lie... unvaccinated people have proven to be highly immune to infection, even from Delta.
> 
> You criminally-minded types who hate vaccinations... hope you catch it! Hope you don't pass it to innocent people, but I sincerely hope YOU catch it and have a negative outcome.


I don't hate vaccinations, silly.  I oppose universal vaccination mandates.  They are unscientific.

I had COVID.  It was like a bad flu and sucked for a few days.  I had all of the symptoms and stayed home, like responsible people normally do.  I was basically back to normal when not exerting myself after about five days, but I had a persistent cough and did not regain full lung capacity for six weeks, based upon my daily morning run.

*>I sincerely hope YOU catch it and have a negative outcome.*

It really takes a special kind of person to wish physical harm on someone simply because they post something the special person disagrees with.

You, sir, are special.  Let me guess, you're a Lefty?


----------



## zaangalewa (Jul 31, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> Ok but do you think everyone should be forced to take it against their will?



This I don't think. Everyone has the right to make a wrong decison. But on the other side has everyone else also the right not to be infected. So it could perhaps be better to force some people - teachers for adults for example. So I'm not able to say I'm against every force in this context. What if soldiers are infected from other soldiers?

The French president Macron impressed me a short time ago with an argument in Polynesia, when a native inhabitant asked him something similiar. Macron answered something like: _"What is the freedom doing which you proclaim? You could be infected and go home and infect your parents ... or me ..."_


----------



## Jim H - VA USA (Jul 31, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> This I don't think. Everyone has the right to make a wrong decison. But on the other side has everyone else also the right not to be infected. So it could perhaps be better to force some people - teachers for adults for example. So I'm not able to say I'm against every force in this context.
> 
> The French president Macron impressed me a short time ago with an argument in Polynesia, when a native inhabitant asked him something similiar. Macron answered something like: _"What is the freedom doing which you proclaim? You could be infected and go home and infect your parents ... or me ..."_


*>But on the other side has everyone else also the right not to be infected.*

Um, yes, kind of.  Vulnerable or scared people have the right to stay home and be a hermit for as long as they wish, or go out wearing three masks if they wish.  

Some of us have functioning immune systems and happiness to pursue.  You do you, and I'll do me.  It's called freedom.

So go get your mRNA vaccine and put your silly ineffective mask on.  There, now you are protected.  So quit worrying about what other people do.  Mind your own business.


----------



## WTH_Progs? (Jul 31, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> View attachment 519169
> wow
> 
> 
> ...



Guess we better quarantine them then.  Ready to divide the country in half yet?


----------



## zaangalewa (Jul 31, 2021)

@Adrenochrome

I remember in context of your question a strange accident which I had, when I was very young. I always drove belt up. But one day - it was a day before Christmas - I did not do so - what normally never had happened. This day a hidden technical defect of my car had caused a heavy accident. When I awoke I found myselve in the snow. The door of the car was open and the motor was on the seat of the driver so I for sure had lost both legs - if I - or my guardian angel - had not made the wrong decision not to fasten my seat belts. I still drive with fasten seat belts. This had been the only time I did not do so.


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 31, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> This I don't think. Everyone has the right to make a wrong decison. But on the other side has everyone else also the right not to be infected. So it could perhaps be better to force some people - teachers for adults for example. So I'm not able to say I'm against every force in this context. What if soldiers are infected from other soldiers?
> 
> The French president Macron impressed me a short time ago with an argument in Polynesia, when a native inhabitant asked him something similiar. Macron answered something like: _"What is the freedom doing which you proclaim? You could be infected and go home and infect your parents ... or me ..."_


So you both do and don’t agree with forced vaccinations. You’re also siding and quoting Macron, who want to mandate vaccines

if the vaccine is so effective and makes Covid symptoms less harmful, then why worry about infections so much, to the point where everyone must be vaccinated???

You are not pro liberty and freedom.


----------



## danielpalos (Jul 31, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> View attachment 519169
> wow
> 
> 
> ...


The unvaccinated are getting infected worse, requiring hospitalization more and also dying more.


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 31, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> The unvaccinated are getting infected worse, requiring hospitalization more and also dying more.


That was science from 2 days ago. Yesterday’s science has changed. Remember, it’s not the experts’ change in opinion or them being wrong, it’s the science that is changing.

“vaccination alone will not stop spread of variants” - CNN

“Enough, it’s time to make vaccines mandatory” -CNN

We are living in an upside down world


----------



## danielpalos (Jul 31, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> That was science from 2 days ago. Yesterday’s science has changed. Remember, it’s not the experts’ change in opinion or them being wrong, it’s the science that is changing.


All current studies indicate that the unvaccinated are getting it worse than the vaccinated.


----------



## zaangalewa (Jul 31, 2021)

Jim H - VA USA said:


> *>But on the other side has everyone else also the right not to be infected.*
> 
> Um, yes, kind of.  Vulnerable or scared people have the right to stay home



No no no no no no no - They have the right to be everywhere.



Jim H - VA USA said:


> and be a hermit for as long as they wish, or go out wearing three masks if they wish.



Masks protect primaly others.



Jim H - VA USA said:


> Some of us have functioning immune systems and happiness to pursue.  You do you, and I'll do me.  It's called freedom.



I got my second vaccination yesterday. I'm very happy about. But I will use masks as long as trustworthy experts think this is the best. And we have a lot of trustworthy experts here in Germany. That's for me not a political decision but a question of manners. If an old lady in a mall or anywhere else feels safe because I wear a mask then I will do so.



Jim H - VA USA said:


> So go get your mRNA vaccine and put your silly ineffective mask on.



Masks are not ineffective - or did you never see doctors operating?



Jim H - VA USA said:


> There, now you are protected.  So quit worrying about what other people do.  Mind your own business.



You don't live in a city, ..., no need for you to drive in a subway. You have a lot of place to avoid the contact to other people, isn't it?


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 31, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> All current studies indicate that the unvaccinated are getting it worse than the vaccinated.


And they could completely reverse tomorrow


----------



## danielpalos (Jul 31, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> And they could completely reverse tomorrow


Your disinformation is reverse today.


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 31, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Your disinformation is reverse today.


And will flip a 180 tomorrow…

The disinformation I posted was CNN?


----------



## danielpalos (Jul 31, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> And will flip a 180 tomorrow…
> 
> The disinformation I posted was CNN?


"Hundreds of thousands of pregnant women worldwide have been vaccinated, safely and effectively protecting themselves against Covid and dramatically reducing their risk of serious illness or harm to their baby," Gill Walton, the chief executive of the Royal College of Midwives in the UK, said in a statement on Friday.


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 31, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> "Hundreds of thousands of pregnant women worldwide have been vaccinated, safely and effectively protecting themselves against Covid and dramatically reducing their risk of serious illness or harm to their baby," Gill Walton, the chief executive of the Royal College of Midwives in the UK, said in a statement on Friday.











						Pregnant women warned not to take Moderna vaccine - unless they're high risk
					

The World Health Organization has told pregnant women to avoid the Moderna jab unless they are health workers or at high risk following a review of vaccine data




					www.mirror.co.uk
				



Flip-Flop





__





						As Moderna Launches COVID Vaccine Clinical Trials for Pregnant Women, Experts Warn of ‘Huge Risk’
					

The Defender is experiencing censorship on many social channels. Be sure to stay in touch with the news that matters by subscribing to our top news of the day. It's free. Moderna will begin studying its COVID vaccine in pregnant women, according to a posting on ClinicalTrials.gov. The...




					z3news.com
				



Murder

My wife’s cousin had a baby 4 weeks ago. She was vaxxed a few months ago. The baby died suddenly 2 weeks ago. I have heard similar stories. Is it the vax?

I have yet to know anyone close to me to have succumbed to covid


----------



## Jim H - VA USA (Jul 31, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> No no no no no no no - They have the right to be everywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*>Masks are not ineffective - or did you never see doctors operating?*

Apples and oranges.  We're talking about COVID.  Masks have not prevented people from getting COVID.  Here is scientific proof, not silly anecdotes...


CDC completed an exhaustive study on the effectiveness of masks, since they now have plenty of data...

CDC admits masks and closing restaurants did not work. Effectiveness is less than 2% for both cases and death rates. Also, opening restaurants increased rates less than ~3%, and was not considered statistically significant.


*March 5, 2021*

_*During March 1–December 31, 2020, state-issued mask mandates applied in 2,313 (73.6%) of the 3,142 U.S. counties. Mask mandates were associated with a 0.5 percentage point decrease (p = 0.02) in daily COVID-19 case growth rates 1–20 days after implementation and decreases of 1.1, 1.5, 1.7, and 1.8 percentage points 21–40, 41–60, 61–80, and 81–100 days, respectively, after implementation (p<0.01 for all) (Table 1) (Figure). Mask mandates were associated with a 0.7 percentage point decrease (p = 0.03) in daily COVID-19 death growth rates 1–20 days after implementation and decreases of 1.0, 1.4, 1.6, and 1.9 percentage points 21–40, 41–60, 61–80, and 81–100 days, respectively, after implementation (p<0.01 for all). Daily case and death growth rates before implementation of mask mandates were not statistically different from the reference period.*_

*During the study period, states allowed restaurants to reopen for on-premises dining in 3,076 (97.9%) U.S. counties. Changes in daily COVID-19 case and death growth rates were not statistically significant 1–20 and 21–40 days after restrictions were lifted. Allowing on-premises dining at restaurants was associated with 0.9 (p = 0.02), 1.2 (p<0.01), and 1.1 (p = 0.04) percentage point increases in the case growth rate 41–60, 61–80, and 81–100 days, respectively, after restrictions were lifted (Table 2) (Figure). Allowing on-premises dining at restaurants was associated with 2.2 and 3.0 percentage point increases in the death growth rate 61–80 and 81–100 days, respectively, after restrictions were lifted (p<0.01 for both). Daily death growth rates before restrictions were lifted were not statistically different from those during the reference period, whereas significant differences in daily case growth rates were observed 41–60 days before restrictions were lifted.*

Association of State-Issued Mask Mandates and Allowing ...


*>Masks protect primaly others.*

LOL, that's hilarious.  I wear a mask when I want to protect myself from airborne particulates.

According to your scientific deduction, masks only work in one direction, eh?

What you fail to realize is that the virus is so small, it rides on humid air and easily escapes masks.  This is why virologists wear hermetically sealed suits, not masks.


----------



## danielpalos (Jul 31, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> Pregnant women warned not to take Moderna vaccine - unless they're high risk
> 
> 
> The World Health Organization has told pregnant women to avoid the Moderna jab unless they are health workers or at high risk following a review of vaccine data
> ...


News from January or July 1st?  Today, you have nothing but the reverse of the truth of the latest studies.


----------



## danielpalos (Jul 31, 2021)

Jim H - VA USA said:


> *>Masks are not ineffective - or did you never see doctors operating?*
> 
> Apples and oranges.  We're talking about COVID.  Masks have not prevented people from getting COVID.  Here is scientific proof, not silly anecdotes...
> 
> ...


Something is better than nothing; only right-wingers prefer nothing while alleging they are for natural rights.


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 31, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> News from January or July 1st?  Today, you have nothing but the reverse of the truth of the latest studies.


Studies today could show the vaccine is 99% safe.

A few months could be a…

Flip-Flop

Murder

Do studies changing after a few months now both you?

Do you understand why people will not take it and take it as a threat when mandated?


----------



## danielpalos (Jul 31, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> Studies today could show the vaccine is 99% safe.
> 
> A few months could be a…
> 
> ...


Our understanding is greater today and you are simply Wrong to ignore the latest studies when we already know the unvaccinated are requiring hospitalization and dying at a higher rate, Today.


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 31, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Our understanding is greater today and you are simply Wrong to ignore the latest studies when we already know the unvaccinated are requiring hospitalization and dying at a higher rate, Today.


God help you


----------



## danielpalos (Jul 31, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> God help you


May He help us all.


----------



## Jim H - VA USA (Jul 31, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Something is better than nothing; only right-wingers prefer nothing while alleging they are for natural rights.


I'm all for voluntary wearing of masks and vaccinations for people who want them.  I need neither.  I had COVID.  So when you see a maskless person, mind your own business.

It is a natural human right to be able to make one's own health care decisions, with optional advice from one's doctor or others, as long as one is of sound mind and conscious.


----------



## Jim H - VA USA (Jul 31, 2021)

I wonder what June looks like.






PDF with all the CDC data:


			https://context-cdn.washingtonpost.com/notes/prod/default/documents/8a726408-07bd-46bd-a945-3af0ae2f3c37/note/57c98604-3b54-44f0-8b44-b148d8f75165.#page=1
		


Currently, about 35,000 vaccinated people per week get symptomatic COVID.

Also, prior infection protects one from Delta for over 180 days,  Vaccine effectiveness starts waning at 12 weeks 84 days).


----------



## danielpalos (Jul 31, 2021)

Jim H - VA USA said:


> I'm all for voluntary wearing of masks and vaccinations for people who want them.  I need neither.  I had COVID.  So when you see a maskless person, mind your own business.
> 
> It is a natural human right to be able to make one's own health care decisions, with optional advice from one's doctor or others, as long as one is of sound mind and conscious.


Even the vaccinated can still spread the pathogen.  The unvaccinated can also spread it around and it is worse since they resume normal activities.


----------



## danielpalos (Jul 31, 2021)

Jim H - VA USA said:


> I wonder what June looks like.
> 
> View attachment 519672
> 
> ...


----------



## Jim H - VA USA (Jul 31, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Even the vaccinated can still spread the pathogen.  The unvaccinated can also spread it around and it is worse since they resume normal activities.


1.  So what.

2.  You are unscientifically ignoring the estimated ~100 million Americans who already had COVID.  Many of them have not been vaccinated, but have better protection that the vaccinated.

Vaccines start to wane after about 14 weeks.  Prior infection lasts at least six months.  Per the CDC...

https://context-cdn.washingtonpost.com/notes/prod/default/documents/8a726408-07bd-46bd-a945-3af0ae2f3c37/note/57c98604-3b54-44f0-8b44-b148d8f75165.#page=1


----------



## Lastamender (Jul 31, 2021)

Tired of the lies?








						Axios Shills for CDC Showing Low Numbers of Vaccinated Covid Cases. They Omitted One Important Fact . . . ⋆ 🔔 The Liberty Daily
					

A bombshell headline dropped on Axios this morning that was intended to assuage concerns over the Delta Variant infecting vaccinated Americans. Titled, “Chart: Less than 0.1% of vaccinated Americans infected with COVID-19,” it was an obvious means of saying, “Hey, don’t listen to the...




					thelibertydaily.com
				




While they went into great detail about how less than 0.1% of vaccinated people are getting infected, they omitted on extremely important fact. *Less than 0.1% of UNVACCINATED people are getting infected as well.*


----------



## danielpalos (Jul 31, 2021)

Jim H - VA USA said:


> 1.  So what.
> 
> 2.  You are unscientifically ignoring the estimated ~100 million Americans who already had COVID.  Many of them have not been vaccinated, but have better protection that the vaccinated.
> 
> ...


India learned the "hard way" that "herd Immunity" may not be effective with this pathogen due to its transmissibility.  Consider that even the fully vaccinated can still spread the virus; those without vaccination can spread it more. 

_Compared to unvaccinated cases, vaccinated cases (full or partial) had: – 40% lower mean RNA viral load (2.3 v. 3.8 copies/mL) – shorter mean duration of detectable viral RNA (2.7 v. 8.9 days) – lower risk of febrile symptoms (25.0% v. 63.1%) – shorter mean duration of symptoms (10.3 v. 16.7 days)_


----------



## Lesh (Jul 31, 2021)

Deplorable Yankee said:


> Get your Trump death jabs
> 
> More than 125,000 breakthrough cases were reported by the CDC in just 38 states.
> 
> ...


And virtually all mild cases with very few hospitalizations


----------



## Lesh (Jul 31, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> How’s about I live my life how I want to and you fuck off. Ok


If it only hurt you I’d say fine. In fact I would applaud it.

But that’s not the case


----------



## Peace (Jul 31, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> They admit the vaccine doesn’t stop the spread, but they want everyone to get it and “will make life as tough as possible for the unvaccinated”
> 
> These are crimes against humanity and go against Nuremberg Laws



It never has stopped the spread but it supposed to lessen the symptoms keeping you from overwhelming the Hospital System.


----------



## danielpalos (Jul 31, 2021)

Five reasons why COVID herd immunity is probably impossible
					

Even with vaccination efforts in full force, the theoretical threshold for vanquishing COVID-19 looks to be out of reach.




					www.nature.com


----------



## Peace (Jul 31, 2021)

Lesh said:


> If it only hurt you I’d say fine. In fact I would applaud it.
> 
> But that’s not the case



As Biden and his staff have found out you may not legally have any way to force people to take a vaccine because we as a society have rights.


----------



## Peace (Jul 31, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Five reasons why COVID herd immunity is probably impossible
> 
> 
> Even with vaccination efforts in full force, the theoretical threshold for vanquishing COVID-19 looks to be out of reach.
> ...


It always was because of the wait the virus mutates.

I forget which CEO stated it but this Virus is never going away…


----------



## Lesh (Jul 31, 2021)

Mad_Jack_Flint said:


> As Biden and his staff have found out you may not legally have any way to force people to take a vaccine because we as a society have rights.


And many are suicidally stupid


----------



## Peace (Jul 31, 2021)

Lesh said:


> And many are suicidally stupid


That is their choice but let be clear the Vaccine does not stop the spread nor eliminate the virus and only lessen the symptoms if contracted, and even then you could still die.

The Vaccine is not a cure and shouldn’t be sold as one and I believe the Virus will never be gone from the world, but even then it is the person choice and as long as you are vaccinated and get your boosters you stand a better chance surviving.


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Jul 31, 2021)

Lesh said:


> If it only hurt you I’d say fine. In fact I would applaud it.
> 
> But that’s not the case


Your vaccine reduces symptoms if you get it; As they claim.

Vaccinated people can still get the virus and infect others at the same rate as the unvaccinated








						CDC shares 'pivotal discovery' on Covid-19 breakthrough infections that led to new mask guidance
					

A new study shows the Delta Covid-19 variant produced similar amounts of virus in vaccinated and unvaccinated people if they get infected -- illustrating a key motivation behind the federal guidance that now recommends most fully vaccinated Americans wear masks indoors.




					www.cnn.com
				




Now, please tell me what difference does it make for you if I’m vaccinated or not?


----------



## Jim H - VA USA (Jul 31, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> Your vaccine reduces symptoms if you get it; As they claim.
> 
> Vaccinated people can still get the virus and infect others at the same rate as the unvaccinated
> 
> ...


You missed an opportunity to take your mask off for two whole months and make condescending posts on social media about what a superior human you are while linking to proof at CNN.


----------



## Likkmee (Jul 31, 2021)

How many "vaccinated" for polio caught it after being vaccinated ?
 How many people got smallpox post vaccination ?
How many dogs got rabies or distemper "post vaccination" ?
Lets hear it.


----------



## danielpalos (Jul 31, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> Your vaccine reduces symptoms if you get it; As they claim.
> 
> Vaccinated people can still get the virus and infect others at the same rate as the unvaccinated
> 
> ...


Six degrees of separation.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jul 31, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> View attachment 519169
> wow
> 
> 
> ...


Why do you lie?

If I snort a nose full of cocaine, and then sneeze it into your face, will you get cocaine in your system? Damned straight you would!  That is why vaccinated people can spread the COVID and especially the variant.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jul 31, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> They admit the vaccine doesn’t stop the spread, but they want everyone to get it and “will make life as tough as possible for the unvaccinated”
> 
> These are crimes against humanity and go against Nuremberg Laws



What are the Nuremburg Laws?  Last I checked, Nuremburg was the site of the war crimes trials of the Nazis post WWII.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jul 31, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> The front page of CNN.
> 
> If vaccinated people are just as likely to get and spread the virus as unvaccinated people and vaccinated people are in ICUs in every other country then I think it’s pretty easy to come to a conclusion


The Communist News Network?


----------



## Lesh (Jul 31, 2021)

Jim H - VA USA said:


> 1.  So what.
> 
> 2.  You are unscientifically ignoring the estimated ~100 million Americans who already had COVID.  Many of them have not been vaccinated, but have better protection that the vaccinated.
> 
> ...


A. "Vaccines start to wane"...ANTIBODIES from vaccines start to "wane" SLIGHTLY after 14 weeks BUT,,,memory cells and T cells still protect

B. I found nothing in there that says that "prior infection lasts six months" List the page please

My understanding is that prior infection protects you about as well as one dose of a two dose vaccination regimen. That is to say...40-60%

Of note...the original virus required 65% infection or vaccination to achieve herd immunity.

The Delta variant requires 85%


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jul 31, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> Because you’re a troll and don’t provide any propelling arguments


Propelling arguments?  Is that what you use to get your pigs to fly?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jul 31, 2021)

LordBrownTrout said:


> At this point, the gullible will believe anything the media, pharma, cdc, tell them.  No questions asked.  We have a media, govt, pharma, tech who are all complicit in complete censorship of any opposition to a virus that has a 99.7 percent recovery.  There is something sinister and nefarious afoot..  If this isn't sending up red flags, then we're done.  I could understand the concern if this virus had a 30-40 percent kill rate but it doesn't.  Something very wrong is happening and we will see atrocities beyond imaginable horror.


It matters to the .3% who never recovered, like the wife of a coworker who was a happy, perfectly healthy woman who went to the hospital with COVID one day, and died the next.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jul 31, 2021)

amethyst said:


> I bet they transmitted it to one another.
> 
> 
> Entire Fully-Vaxxed DC Doctors' Office Tests Positive for Covid-19 -  The Liberty Daily. Entire Fully-Vaxxed DC Doctors' Office Tests Positive for Covid-19 -  The Liberty Daily



They may have tested positive, but were they really sick with it after being vaccinated?


----------



## pknopp (Jul 31, 2021)

Sinajuavi said:


> No, try thinking it through again, because so far you've failed.
> 
> We vaccinated people can SPREAD it, but we rarely come down with it. See how it works, halfwit? That's why we're still wearing masks, to protect all the unvaccinated children. As for you... when I see a maskless adult, I remove my mask and cough on them. You think it's ok to be maskless, so it's ok for me to give you COVID! You asked for it, and you've got it!
> 
> Suckers.



 I'm vaccinated. You are just hooked on ranting. 

 Unvaccinated can still wear masks.


----------



## Indeependent (Jul 31, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> View attachment 519169
> wow
> 
> 
> ...


Down in Miami, vaccinated people are spreading the love.


----------



## zaangalewa (Jul 31, 2021)

Jim H - VA USA said:


> *>Masks are not ineffective - or did you never see doctors operating?*
> 
> Apples and oranges.  We're talking about COVID.  Masks have not prevented people from getting COVID.  Here is scientific proof, not silly anecdotes...
> 
> ...



Aha. But you don't do so to slow down the speed of a pandemy so people have not to die in the gutter?



Jim H - VA USA said:


> According to your scientific deduction,



To my what? ... Um - you speak about philosophy now. The deduction from Aristotle. ... That's not really what I used here. I used only this what your language calls "common sense" and my language calls "sane human mind".



Jim H - VA USA said:


> masks only work in one direction, eh?



No. But if you compare it with the nuclear reactions (chain reactions) then it's important to reduce the sending out of particles so nothing will explode.



Jim H - VA USA said:


> What you fail to realize is that the virus is so small, it rides on humid air and easily escapes masks.



Try to spit while you wear a mask.  Compare the energy of a stream of air if you cough with or without mask and so on. See your breath on a cold day with or without mask. I fear you are not very experienced with philosophy, science and probabilities. The uses of masks is not perfect - the additional use of masks is good enough, specially if people keep distance and take care in other ways too.



Jim H - VA USA said:


> This is why virologists wear hermetically sealed suits, not masks.



You like to use overpressure suits instead of simple masks? Why not?


----------



## 366h34d (Jul 31, 2021)

pknopp said:


> I'm vaccinated. You are just hooked on ranting.
> 
> Unvaccinated can still wear masks.


Yes, unvaccinated need to wear masks. If you are vaccinated, you do not need to wear a mask unless you was using J&J. Having said that, you should show a degree of courtesy by wearing a mask. MSM and the dems are really fxxk up this issue.


----------



## krichton (Aug 1, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> Your vaccine reduces symptoms if you get it; As they claim.
> 
> Vaccinated people can still get the virus and infect others at the same rate as the unvaccinated
> 
> ...



Please tell me why you want to keep a pandemic going with a highly infectious disease.


----------



## Quasar44 (Aug 1, 2021)

EvMetro 
Zero evidence that vaccinated folks spread the virus


----------



## SweetSue92 (Aug 1, 2021)

Quasar44 said:


> EvMetro
> Zero evidence that vaccinated folks spread the virus



Providence MA is plenty of evidence. That's why the CDC changed the guidance. Similar evidence in Wisconsin and other places. Vaccines are not so great.


----------



## Mac1958 (Aug 1, 2021)

Lesh said:


> And many are suicidally stupid


Very few things surprise me at this point, but this one did.  I really thought we'd be able to get to 70%, maybe even 80% or more.

What a waste.  

This cult ideology is going to kill a lot of people, a lot are going to suffer, and there's not a damn thing we can do about it.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Aug 1, 2021)

Mac1958 said:


> Very few things surprise me at this point, but this one did.  I really thought we'd be able to get to 70%, maybe even 80% or more.
> 
> What a waste.
> 
> This cult ideology is going to kill a lot of people, a lot are going to suffer, and there's not a damn thing we can do about it.



They're bad vaccines. Well they're not vaccines. They're bad therapeutics.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Aug 1, 2021)

Mac1958 said:


> Very few things surprise me at this point, but this one did.  I really thought we'd be able to get to 70%, maybe even 80% or more.
> 
> What a waste.
> 
> This cult ideology is going to kill a lot of people, a lot are going to suffer, and there's not a damn thing we can do about it.



Also I'm glad we didn't get to 70% as likely the vaccinated are the super spreaders. Many of them do not understand they can get covid, get cold symptoms, and go out and about spreading their covid hither and yon.

Super spreaders.

Your people, Mac. Congrats.


----------



## Mac1958 (Aug 1, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> Also I'm glad we didn't get to 70% as likely the vaccinated are the super spreaders. Many of them do not understand they can get covid, get cold symptoms, and go out and about spreading their covid hither and yon.
> 
> Super spreaders.
> 
> Your people, Mac. Congrats.


You're getting what you want.  You've won.

Your liberty.  Your freedom.  It's all about you.

Well done.


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 1, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> Also I'm glad we didn't get to 70% as likely the vaccinated are the super spreaders. Many of them do not understand they can get covid, get cold symptoms, and go out and about spreading their covid hither and yon.
> 
> Super spreaders.
> 
> Your people, Mac. Congrats.


The vaccinated aren’t the ones dying.


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 1, 2021)

Mac1958 said:


> You're getting what you want. You've won.
> 
> Your liberty. Your freedom. It's all about you.
> 
> Well done.


You sound bitter


----------



## Blues Man (Aug 1, 2021)

pknopp said:


> The claim is now that vaccinated people are spreading it. With that being the headline, what difference does it make? Does that not then make the decision a personal one?


Only the unvaccinated ate at risk from a vaccinated person who may be shedding the virus.


----------



## pknopp (Aug 1, 2021)

366h34d said:


> Yes, unvaccinated need to wear masks. If you are vaccinated, you do not need to wear a mask unless you was using J&J. Having said that, you should show a degree of courtesy by wearing a mask. MSM and the dems are really fxxk up this issue.



 Sorry, the argument today is that all have to wear masks, Vaccinated or not.


----------



## pknopp (Aug 1, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Only the unvaccinated ate at risk from a vaccinated person who may be shedding the virus.



 Which has nothing to do with anything I've said. All the same, you have no clue.


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 1, 2021)

amethyst said:


> I bet they transmitted it to one another.
> 
> 
> Entire Fully-Vaxxed DC Doctors' Office Tests Positive for Covid-19 -  The Liberty Daily. Entire Fully-Vaxxed DC Doctors' Office Tests Positive for Covid-19 -  The Liberty Daily


Someone said it on Twitter so it's DEFINITELY TRUE!


----------



## Lesh (Aug 1, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> Also I'm glad we didn't get to 70% as likely the vaccinated are the super spreaders. Many of them do not understand they can get covid, get cold symptoms, and go out and about spreading their covid hither and yon.
> 
> Super spreaders.
> 
> Your people, Mac. Congrats.


If you're worried about the vaxxed folks spreading the virus then you must be petrified that the UNvaxxed are.

But hey. I feel for ya. Wear a mask when round other folks and only be around other folks who are also masked. And damn...get vaxxed so that if you DO get the virus you don't die.

Whatever you do, don't listen to morons like StupidSue here. She wants to keep this pandemic going as long as possible


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 1, 2021)

Mac1958 said:


> This cult ideology is going to kill a lot of people, a lot are going to suffer, and there's not a damn thing we can do about it.


No transparency = no trust = I won't get the jab.  Something CAN be done.  The left needs to quit with the censorship, suppression of speech, vaccine and mask mandates, deplatforming, and cancel culture, and just be honest about what the vaccine is.  No more manipulating statistics, no more hiding negative information, no more calling politically inconvenient information "misinformation".  If the vaccine looks good after the truth is out, I'll be happy to get it and encourage others to do so.  In the meantime, I'll resist the attempts to coerce and force me to comply.  So... transparency is what can be done.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 1, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> The vaccinated aren’t the ones dying.


Vaccinated people are dying.  They are getting covid, they are getting delta, and they are dying from the jab.  Vaccinated people are DYING.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 1, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Only the unvaccinated ate at risk from a vaccinated person who may be shedding the virus.


Misinformation


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 1, 2021)

Lesh said:


> If you're worried about the vaxxed folks spreading the virus then you must be petrified that the UNvaxxed are.


Are you promoting a notion that it is more dangerous to be infected by an unvaxxed than from a vaxxed?


----------



## Lesh (Aug 1, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated people are dying.


Only in extremely rare cases


EvMetro said:


> They are getting covid,


Almost always mild cases


EvMetro said:


> they are dying from the jab.


Horse shit


----------



## Lesh (Aug 1, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Are you promoting a notion that it is more dangerous to be infected by an unvaxxed than from a vaxxed?


I'm saying that it's more likely that the unvaxxed will spread this thing.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 1, 2021)

Lesh said:


> I'm saying that it's more likely that the unvaxxed will spread this thing.


Are you promoting a notion that unvaxxed are more contagious than vaxxed?


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 1, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Only in extremely rare cases
> 
> Almost always mild cases
> 
> Horse shit


Vaccinated people are dying. They are getting covid, they are getting delta, and they are dying from the jab. Vaccinated people are DYING.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Aug 1, 2021)

CowboyTed said:


> Prove people are dying *from* the jab... Not people have died who got the jab


The same could be said for supposed covid deaths.


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 1, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated people are dying.  They are getting covid, they are getting delta, and they are dying from the jab.  Vaccinated people are DYING.


Data shows the opposite.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 1, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> Data shows the opposite.



Manipulated data.  I've found plenty of information that shows vaccinated people are dying from covid, delta, and the jab.  When I can trust data from the cdc, the who, and professionals who have survived the deplatforming purge, I might think about getting the jab.

No transparency = no trust = I won't get the jab.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Aug 1, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> Providence MA is plenty of evidence. That's why the CDC changed the guidance. Similar evidence in Wisconsin and other places. Vaccines are not so great.



The 'outbreak" in Providence, MA is mostly consisting of mild symptoms with only 3 hospitalizations reported.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Aug 1, 2021)

Mac1958 said:


> Very few things surprise me at this point, but this one did.  I really thought we'd be able to get to 70%, maybe even 80% or more.
> 
> What a waste.
> 
> This cult ideology is going to kill a lot of people, a lot are going to suffer, and there's not a damn thing we can do about it.


This cult ideology is the one liberals in government founded based on disinformation and outright lies?


----------



## Lesh (Aug 1, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> I've found plenty of information that shows vaccinated people are dying from covid, delta, and the jab.


Yea...Facebook/Youtube garbage


----------



## Lesh (Aug 1, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> This cult ideology is the one liberals in government founded based on disinformation and outright lies?


Cappy, I know you hate liberals but it looks like the virus is showing you what scum your fellow right wingers are.

Maybe there's hope for you yet


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Aug 1, 2021)

Another reason not to listen to these idiots.



			DC Mayor Bowser officiates maskless indoor wedding after reinstated mask mandate


----------



## Blues Man (Aug 1, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Which has nothing to do with anything I've said. All the same, you have no clue.


It doesn't matte what you said.

The fact is unvaccinated people shed the virus more and get sicker when they get it.


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Aug 1, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Cappy, I know you hate liberals but it looks like the virus is showing you what scum your fellow right wingers are.
> 
> Maybe there's hope for you yet



The virus is showing us who the totalitarians are.


----------



## Blues Man (Aug 1, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Misinformation


Reality.

Unvaccinated people are the ones who spread the virus the most.


----------



## pknopp (Aug 1, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> It doesn't matte what you said.
> 
> The fact is unvaccinated people shed the virus more and get sicker when they get it.


 
 And?


----------



## Blues Man (Aug 1, 2021)

pknopp said:


> And?


And vaccinated people aren't the problem


----------



## 22lcidw (Aug 1, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Only in extremely rare cases
> 
> Almost always mild cases
> 
> Horse shit


There are science theories that the Vaxxed can be causing mutations of Covid.


----------



## pknopp (Aug 1, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> And vaccinated people aren't the problem



 We are being told they are still spreading the virus. How is that not a problem?


----------



## Blues Man (Aug 1, 2021)

pknopp said:


> We are being told they are still spreading the virus. How is that not a problem?


Because it's a small percentage.  Much smaller than the unvaccinated.

WHat has gone wrong in the minds of people when the rare events become the obsession?

You have a .001% chance of severe vaccine side effects  is that the line you draw when it comes to safety?  Do you require a less than 1 in a million chance of harm before you do anything?


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 1, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Manipulated data.  I've found plenty of information that shows vaccinated people are dying from covid, delta, and the jab.  When I can trust data from the cdc, the who, and professionals who have survived the deplatforming purge, I might think about getting the jab.
> 
> No transparency = no trust = I won't get the jab.


Right. You found this data on the internet where you can trust EVERYTHING!!!!


----------



## pknopp (Aug 1, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Because it's a small percentage.  Much smaller than the unvaccinated.
> 
> WHat has gone wrong in the minds of people when the rare events become the obsession?
> 
> You have a .001% chance of severe vaccine side effects  is that the line you draw when it comes to safety?  Do you require a less than 1 in a million chance of harm before you do anything?



 If it's so rare there wouldn't be calls for them all to mask up again. It's not about me. I'm vaccinated.


----------



## Blues Man (Aug 1, 2021)

pknopp said:


> If it's so rare there wouldn't be calls for them all to mask up again. It's not about me. I'm vaccinated.


It's not a problem.

Like I said these days the rarest events are built up to be impending disasters


----------



## pknopp (Aug 1, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> It's not a problem.
> 
> Like I said these days the rarest events are built up to be impending disasters



 It's the government doing this so yes it's a problem.

 You understand the problem which is why you are trying to downplay it.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Aug 1, 2021)

22lcidw said:


> There are science theories that the Vaxxed can be causing mutations of Covid.


There is also a theory that the moon is made of green cheese!


----------



## Blues Man (Aug 1, 2021)

pknopp said:


> It's the government doing this so yes it's a problem.
> 
> You understand the problem which is why you are trying to downplay it.


I'm not downplaying anything I am taking the reasoned approach.


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 1, 2021)

22lcidw said:


> There are science theories that the Vaxxed can be causing mutations of Covid.


There’s scientific proof that unvaccinated are causing mutations.

Delta came from India.


----------



## pknopp (Aug 1, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> I'm not downplaying anything I am taking the reasoned approach.



 For the most part but the government is not taking that approach.


----------



## Blues Man (Aug 1, 2021)

pknopp said:


> For the most part but the government is not taking that approach.


I never listen to what politicians say

No one should


----------



## pknopp (Aug 1, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> I never listen to what politicians say
> 
> No one should



 Even those risking arrest?


----------



## Blues Man (Aug 1, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Even those risking arrest?


Arrested for what?

No one is getting arrested


----------



## pknopp (Aug 1, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Arrested for what?
> 
> No one is getting arrested




 You know what I am speaking about, why do this?

Capitol Police Authorized to Arrest Visitors, Staff for Not Wearing Masks


----------



## Blues Man (Aug 1, 2021)

pknopp said:


> You know what I am speaking about, why do this?
> 
> Capitol Police Authorized to Arrest Visitors, Staff for Not Wearing Masks


How many people are getting arrested?

And no one is getting arrested for not wearing masks they get arrested for refusing to leave the premised when asked


----------



## pknopp (Aug 1, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> How many people are getting arrested?
> 
> And no one is getting arrested for not wearing masks they get arrested for refusing to leave the premised when asked



 Excuse makers will make excuses. That's why even you say you don't listen to politicians. They know they can do whatever they want and you'll make excuses.


----------



## 366h34d (Aug 1, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Sorry, the argument today is that all have to wear masks, Vaccinated or not.


Vaccinated should not be forced to wear a mask unless Vaccinated visits place that there are people cannot be vaccinated (like school, hospital ...). As I said, MSM and dems shxt the bed in this very very simple stuff.


----------



## Blues Man (Aug 1, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Excuse makers will make excuses. That's why even you say you don't listen to politicians. They know they can do whatever they want and you'll make excuses.


You either believe that people can ask you to leave the premises or you don't

I do.

And the thing is if the policy is posted and you decide to violate it then you get to reap the consequences.

If you don't want to wear a mask then just do not patronize places that require masks.  it really is that simple.


----------



## Lesh (Aug 1, 2021)

366h34d said:


> Vaccinated should not be forced to wear a mask unless Vaccinated visits place that there are people cannot be vaccinated (like school, hospital ...). As I said, MSM and dems shxt the bed in this very very simple stuff.


Vaxxed people can still spread the virus.

The Delta variant is as infectious as chicken pox.

I'm wearing a mask and I am no longer eating indoors


----------



## Blues Man (Aug 1, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Vaxxed people can still spread the virus.
> 
> The Delta variant is as infectious as chicken pox.
> 
> I'm wearing a mask and I am no longer eating indoors


I'm vaccinated and I don't wear a mask and I'll eat wherever I want to.

The fact is breakthrough infections are rare  and just because a vaccinated person my test positive in no way means he will get sick


----------



## 366h34d (Aug 1, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> How many people are getting arrested?
> 
> And no one is getting arrested for not wearing masks they get arrested for refusing to leave the premised when asked


Read more news. Grandma backed down. There was "tsunami" backlash over the order from the people. Arresting visitors, staff for not wearing masks, but not the congressman, people are not stupid.


----------



## Blues Man (Aug 1, 2021)

366h34d said:


> Read more news. Grandma backed down. There was "tsunami" backlash over the order from the people. Arresting visitors, staff for not wearing masks, but not the congressman, people are not stupid.


YEah they are.  You didn't know that politicians never have to follow the rules they say we do?


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Aug 1, 2021)

krichton said:


> Please tell me why you want to keep a pandemic going with a highly infectious disease.











						WHO chief warns that vaccine alone wouldn't end COVID pandemic
					

World Health Organization director-general says other measures aimed at curbing virus spread will need to continue, as well.




					www.cbsnews.com
				




2 weeks to stop the thread

Vaccine will end with here immunity 

An optional vaccine will end the pandemic

Everyone needs the vaccine

“Vaccines alone will not end the pandemic
-head of the WHO








						WHO chief warns that vaccine alone wouldn't end COVID pandemic
					

World Health Organization director-general says other measures aimed at curbing virus spread will need to continue, as well.




					www.cbsnews.com


----------



## 366h34d (Aug 1, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Vaxxed people can still spread the virus.
> 
> The Delta variant is as infectious as chicken pox.
> 
> I'm wearing a mask and I am no longer eating indoors


Yes, I know that. And, the vaccinated would not know they have covid too because of vaccinated. As I said,  Dems should just let the vaccinated choose. In this way, people will get vaccinated. No idea wtf Dems and msm are thinking.


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Aug 1, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> The Communist News Network?


So are you neither DemonRat nor on the Right but are blind to the fact there there is a Globalist movement to install a One World Marxist government and you think everyone should be forced vaccinated??


----------



## itfitzme (Aug 1, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> View attachment 519169
> wow
> 
> 
> ...



Wrong.  You are 100% wrong to say 0%. 

I see you didn't link to the actual article. You posted a headline. We all know that headlines exaggerate and are just clickbait.
You haven't read the article or chose to leave out the actual information.

You posted a picture of a headline. You followed it up with a lie.  Then you went straight to your emotional ranting that says nothing more than "You can't tell me what to do?"  You have the emotional development a child.  We get it, you have an issue. 














						Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)
					

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.




					www.cdc.gov
				




Reality isn't binary. 

The virus enters the body when you breath.  No vaccine or other medication can stop a virus while it is in the air.  It has to be in the body before the immune system knows that there is a virus and can activate defenses against it.

If someone with the infection breath in your face, you are going to get the virus regardless of being vaccinated or not. 

If you want to keep the virus from entering your airways, you have to stop it before it enters. That requires a mask. The better the mask, the less that gets in.

The vaccine gives your body the tools to mount a defense and stop the virus from causing severe illness.

But the immune system isn't instantaneous.  It isn't binary.  The virus, whether influenza, small pox, or COVID, will develop at the same time that the body is beginning to start it's defense against it.  The problem with COVID-19 has always been that it is able to stay ahead of the bodies defenses.  Unvaccinated individuals have no specific defense against it.  Vaccinated people have the ability to stop the virus before it becomes serious.

There is a big difference between an individual and the group as a whole.   Some individuals, such as those with immune deficiencies may not respond as well to the vaccine as others and may still get serous ill but those are few compared to the population at large.  The virus peaks in three days to a week before the bodies defenses are able to catch up.

If you want a guarantee to not get the virus and to not spread the virus, you isolate and stay away from everyone.

If you want to substantially reduce the virus from entering your airways, you have to wear a mask.  You are right, a Halloween mask doesn't stop the virus. So, all masks are not the same, you have to have an effective mask.

If you want to reduce the level of infection you get, you have to be vaccinated.

Doctors and the medical community wear masks because they work
Mumps, rubella, and small pox have been all but eliminated using vaccines.
Measles has been eliminated in the US from the use of vaccines.
Smallpox has been eliminated.
Rubella has been eliminated.
Vaccines have a documented history of scientific empirical evidence that prove they are safe and effective.
Every year,  over 150 million people get the influenza vaccine.

On the other hand, over 600 thousand people have died from COVID.
Nearly all COVID deaths in the US are now among unvaccinated individuals.

My question is, what is your emotional dysfunction that leads you to feel that you need to post pure b.s.?  Are you simply a teenage or is this emotional dysfunction deeper than that?  Abused as a child?  Had shitty bosses?  Your daddy was an @$$hole?    Only you know.  Do you know what projection is?  Seeing as everything you have said is wrong, then "sick, brainwashed, and retarded" would be you talking about you.

I'm really sorry that these are too many words for you to read. 
I'd suggest cognitive therapy and getting a formal education so you can learn how to think.
Blurting out the first thing that comes into your head isn't thinking, it is ranting..
I know, this is all just so complicated for you but with practice, you can learn to think too.

I'll make is simple. 
If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
If you are not vaccinated and are not wearing a mask in public, you are part of the problem.
People are dying from COVID-19. You are unvaccinated. You are part of the problem.
The problem is over 600 million deaths and you are part of the problem.
You aren't a Nazi and murderer.
You may have not personally killed anyone,
but you are doing a good job trying to do so.

So, why do you hate people so much that you are trying to kill them?
Cuz you sure aren't trying not to.


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Aug 1, 2021)

itfitzme said:


> Wrong.  You are 100% wrong to say 0%.
> 
> I see you didn't link to the actual article. You posted a headline. We all know that headlines exaggerate and are just clickbait.
> You haven't read the article or chose to leave out the actual information.
> ...


Way too long to read.
Don’t like the headline or article, take it up with CNN


----------



## Lesh (Aug 1, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> I'm vaccinated and I don't wear a mask and I'll eat wherever I want to.
> 
> The fact is breakthrough infections are rare  and just because a vaccinated person my test positive in no way means he will get sick


I get that. I just don't want to take any chances. I'm 67 and a former smoker.

After surviving a year and a half of this I'm not going to get it now if I can help it. It is getting old though


----------



## Lesh (Aug 1, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> Way too long to read.
> Don’t like the headline or article, take it up with CNN


And yet you spend hours going down QAnon rabbit holes...


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Aug 1, 2021)

Lesh said:


> And yet you spend hours going down QAnon rabbit holes...


Nope


----------



## pknopp (Aug 1, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> You either believe that people can ask you to leave the premises or you don't
> 
> I do.
> 
> ...



 Arrested for not wearing a mask you say isn't even needed.


----------



## krichton (Aug 1, 2021)

I just want to point something out from the article.  It says that vaccinated ppl can spread the virus the same as unvaccinated, but that's ONLY if they get infected in the first place! The point of the vaccine is that it prevents infection, albeit not at 100%.  This is why it's important to get vaccinated.  And if you do get delta by some chance there's a very good chance you'll never have to be hospitalized, much less die.  This last bit of info is for all the dumb fucks out there relying on facebook memes and antivax websites for all their info.



CowboyTed said:


> Sorry EvMetro...
> 
> Prove people are dying *from* the jab... Not people have died who got the jab..
> 
> ...



He can't and never will.  That's the folly of every antivaxxer.  Their entire idealogy is a house of cards made entirely of facebook lies.

I think this is an important distinction.   The same high risk ppl who got vaccinated, are also more likely to get infected by the virus, but now they're a lot more protected from being hospitalized and dying from it.


----------



## healthmyths (Aug 1, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Vaxxed people can still spread the virus.
> 
> The Delta variant is as infectious as chicken pox.
> 
> I'm wearing a mask and I am no longer eating indoors


FACTS... FACTS....FACTS~~  why schools should NOT HAVE BEEN closed!


Only 25 children aged 0 to 17 in the U.K. died of COVID in the pandemic’s first 12 months.
Of these 25 deaths, 19 (76 percent) occurred among patients who had pre-existing “chronic co-morbidities” and/or “life-limiting” medical conditions. Only 24 percent of COVID deaths occurred among children with no “underlying health conditions.”
This means only six “healthy” children and young people in this nation of 68 million people died of COVID.
Among the 12.023 million children and young people in the U.K., the mortality rate was 0.002 percent. Expressed as a probability, COVID mortality in CYP was 1 out of 480,942.
However, the vast majority of CYP in the UK (or any Western nation, including the U.S.A.) do NOT have “chronic co-morbidities” and/or suffer from “life-limiting” medical conditions.
A footnote in the study defines life-limiting conditions as “diseases with no reasonable hope of a cure that will ultimately be fatal.” Approximately 3 in 1,000 young people have medical conditions characterized as “life-limiting.”








						For Majority of UK children, COVID Mortality is 0.000 - UncoverDC
					

The most comprehensive and perhaps important COVID study to date was recently released in the UK quantifying the health risks of COVID among children and teenagers.




					uncoverdc.com
				




“Our findings emphasize the importance of underlying co-morbidities as the main risk factor for death, as 76% had chronic conditions, 64% had multiple co-morbidities, and 60% had life-limiting conditions.”


----------



## Circe (Aug 1, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> The fact is breakthrough infections are rare  and just because a vaccinated person my test positive in no way means he will get sick


No, that's incorrect: these infections despite the vaccine are not at all rare; the worrying thing is that they may be MORE common in vaccinated people than in unvaccinated people. 74% keeps popping up -- of Delta-infected people, that's the percentage who were vaccinated in the last four studies done on the hop this past week or two. We need more studies and data (and some control groups would be so nice!!!) but this business of saying they are rare has to stop: Delta is a mutated virus and it has evaded the vaccine. That's what is going on, and fast.


----------



## Blues Man (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> No, that's incorrect: these infections despite the vaccine are not at all rare; the worrying thing is that they may be MORE common in vaccinated people than in unvaccinated people. 74% keeps popping up -- of Delta-infected people, that's the percentage who were vaccinated in the last four studies done on the hop this past week or two. We need more studies and data (and some control groups would be so nice!!!) but this business of saying they are rare has to stop: Delta is a mutated virus and it has evaded the vaccine. That's what is going on, and fast.


It doesn't matter if a person tests positive if he doesn't get sick and the fact is vaccinated people don't get as sick as often as unvaccinated people.

And the reason the Delta mutation became so prevalent is that not enough people got vaccinated and the virus had more time to mutate and spread.

This isn't rocket science.  Vaccine research is over a century old and well established.  None of what we are seeing now is unexpected but in fact was very predictable.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> No, that's incorrect: these infections despite the vaccine are not at all rare; the worrying thing is that they may be MORE common in vaccinated people than in unvaccinated people. 74% keeps popping up -- of Delta-infected people, that's the percentage who were vaccinated in the last four studies done on the hop this past week or two. We need more studies and data (and some control groups would be so nice!!!) but this business of saying they are rare has to stop: Delta is a mutated virus and it has evaded the vaccine. That's what is going on, and fast.



It's not fully obvious here as it is in the UK and Israel. Delta is just getting started here.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Aug 2, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> It doesn't matter if a person tests positive if he doesn't get sick and the fact is vaccinated people don't get as sick as often as unvaccinated people.
> 
> And the reason the Delta mutation became so prevalent is that not enough people got vaccinated and the virus had more time to mutate and spread.
> 
> This isn't rocket science.  Vaccine research is over a century old and well established.  None of what we are seeing now is unexpected but in fact was very predictable.



Wrong.

The vaccines were leaky and were always leaky. it's not my fault we're dealing with a leaky vaccine.


----------



## Blues Man (Aug 2, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> Wrong.
> 
> The vaccines were leaky and were always leaky. it's not my fault we're dealing with a leaky vaccine.


Breakthrough infections among the vaccinated are less than 1%

So do you refuse to do anything that has a less than 1% failure rate?


----------



## SweetSue92 (Aug 2, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Breakthrough infections among the vaccinated are less than 1%
> 
> So do you refuse to do anything that has a less than 1% failure rate?



You have to go to local news to get the real story, always. Here, from Summit Co Colorado. HIGHLY vaccinated. At this point, close to 80% fully vaccinated. At the time of this printing, 75%.

_Approximately one-third to half of cases in the past few weeks have been breakthrough cases, which are cases of COVID-19 among fully vaccinated individuals. To-date, there have been 33 breakthrough cases, which makes up about 2.5% of total cases since mid-January.









						COVID-19 cases, including breakthrough cases, slowly rise in Summit County
					

Summit County’s incidence rate has slowly but steadily climbed throughout July. Despite the rising case numbers, health officials have stressed that Summit County will not move to a more restrictive level unless hospital capacity is...




					www.summitdaily.com
				



_
So this is proof positive that when you cite the 1% number you are going back to January. The cases now are higher--MUCH higher.


----------



## Blues Man (Aug 2, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> You have to go to local news to get the real story, always. Here, from Summit Co Colorado. HIGHLY vaccinated. At this point, close to 80% fully vaccinated. At the time of this printing, 75%.
> 
> _Approximately one-third to half of cases in the past few weeks have been breakthrough cases, which are cases of COVID-19 among fully vaccinated individuals. To-date, there have been 33 breakthrough cases, which makes up about 2.5% of total cases since mid-January.
> 
> ...


According to the CDC 163 million people vaccinated
6587 breakthrough infections'

.004%


----------



## SweetSue92 (Aug 2, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> According to the CDC 163 million people vaccinated
> 6587 breakthrough infections'
> 
> .004%



It's cute that you still think the national institutions are telling the entire truth, even though I gave you a credible link you apparently can't even look at.

Okay then

PS It's lamentable you think there have only been 6K breakthrough infections in the US since Jan. Okay sure


----------



## Blues Man (Aug 2, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> It's cute that you still think the national institutions are telling the entire truth, even though I gave you a credible link you apparently can't even look at.
> 
> Okay then


OK here we go.

You don't have better data than the CDC.

Take off your tinfoil hat


----------



## SweetSue92 (Aug 2, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> OK here we go.
> 
> You don't have better data than the CDC.
> 
> Take off your tinfoil hat



I got news for you Blues Man

The federal government can and does lie to you

I know, I know.


----------



## Blues Man (Aug 2, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> I got news for you Blues Man
> 
> The federal government can and does lie to you
> 
> I know, I know.


And the rag where you get your info on one town in in one state is 100% reliable?

Cherry picking doesn't produce reliable data


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 2, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> I got news for you Blues Man
> 
> The federal government can and does lie to you
> 
> I know, I know.


How unfortunate right-wingers are even worse.  Y'all are literally, incredible regarding any "gospel Truth".


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> It doesn't matter if a person tests positive if he doesn't get sick and the fact is vaccinated people don't get as sick as often as unvaccinated people.
> 
> And the reason the Delta mutation became so prevalent is that not enough people got vaccinated and the virus had more time to mutate and spread.


You don't know that vaccinated people don't get as sick: the docs lie whenever their mouths are moving and have since the beginning in March 2020. I can't tell what is going on yet -- the "keep 'em calm" reflexive lies are all still going on. This country is at least still free enough that we should hear what is actually going on within a couple weeks, I hope. I hope vaccinated people DON'T get as sick, but if 74% of the people getting this Delta are vaccinated, that makes me nervous.

As for blaming the nonvax Americans ------------------- you do realize this Delta mutated and spread in INDIA?? It had nothing to do with us, any of us. It's just spreading here --- possibly more to the vaccinated than to the non-vaccinated, for some reason I would love to hear elucidated.


----------



## Lesh (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> As for blaming the nonvax Americans ------------------- you do realize this Delta mutated and spread in INDIA?? It had nothing to do with us, any of us.


And spread like wildfire in states that were behind on vaccinations.

And then spread to ALL the states


----------



## Lesh (Aug 2, 2021)

Just a reminder...96% of hospitalized covid cases in Florida ar unvaccinated people

and it's reaching down into younger ranks

The average age of hospitalization from covid there is FORTY TWO


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Breakthrough infections among the vaccinated are less than 1%


Wrong: 74% of infected people were vaccinated in the four studies promulgated all over the news last week. 74% is not the same as 1%, Blues. You gotta keep up with the news, like READING it, in a fast-moving situation. Don't just keep parroting [propaganda you read a couple months ago.

I think some of you people, Blues and Rigby for instance, simply make up the numbers you wish were true.


----------



## Lesh (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> Wrong: 74% of infected people were vaccinated in the four studies promulgated all over the news last week. 74% is not the same as 1%, Blues. You gotta keep up with the news, like READING it, in a fast-moving situation. Don't just keep parroting [propaganda you read a couple months ago.
> 
> I think some of you people, Blues and Rigby for instance, simply make up the numbers you wish were true.


Do you a link to these studies?


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 2, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Just a reminder...96% of hospitalized covid cases in Florida ar unvaccinated people
> 
> and it's reaching down into younger ranks
> 
> The average age of hospitalization from covid there is FORTY TWO


Vaccinated people are dying.  They are getting covid, they are getting delta.  Vaccinated people are DYING.


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

Lesh said:


> And spread like wildfire in states that were behind on vaccinations.
> 
> And then spread to ALL the states


Doesn't matter. Nobody on Earth can escape an R8 spreading virus. Eight people infected by every one person with the disease. Within two weeks, I am guessing, the entire nation will be infected. Hopefully this disease is not especially lethal, because we all apparently are going to catch it, and vaccination doesn't protect us.

You want to blame people, but this is not about people.


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Do you a link to these studies?


Yeah, try Google News!! This is the biggest thing going on, just look on any news outlet and actually read about it.


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> It's not fully obvious here as it is in the UK and Israel. Delta is just getting started here.


It was weird that Provincetown study and the two San Francisco hospital studies had about the same 74% vaccinated getting infected as the Israeli study. I don't like that, somehow ---- I am watching developments with great interest.


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Just a reminder...96% of hospitalized covid cases in Florida ar unvaccinated people


Well, give it a little time: hospitalization is a lagging indicator, because this is a disease that takes a good 2 to 4 weeks to put people in the hospital, so the ones there now are there from Alpha, not Delta, and they were not vaccinated when they got sick a month or more ago. 

But now vaccinated people are catching it; let's see what that does to hospitalization numbers. We do not know yet. Nothing, I hope! Believe me, I'm aaaaallllllllll in favor of vaccinated people not getting very sick or not sick at all when infected with Delta.


----------



## Lesh (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> It was weird that Provincetown study and the two San Francisco hospital studies had about the same 74% vaccinated getting infected as the Israeli study. I don't like that, somehow ---- I am watching developments with great interest.


Those were not studies. They were incidences


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Those were not studies. They were incidences


No, they were formal studies in all four cases. Read the news!!


----------



## Lesh (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> Yeah, try Google News!! This is the biggest thing going on, just look on any news outlet and actually read about it.


That’s a poor response and you know it. You might as well tell me to check out Facebook


----------



## Lesh (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> No, they were formal studies in all four cases. Read the news!!


Then link to them


----------



## Lesh (Aug 2, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated people are dying.  They are getting covid, they are getting delta.  Vaccinated people are DYING.


Very very few are dying and very few are even being asymptotically infected.

Whether you mean to or not you are encouraging people to not get vaccinated. Why would you do that?


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

Lesh said:


> That’s a poor response and you know it. You might as well tell me to check out Facebook


 No, I don't bother with Facebook and Twitter. You could probably find info about these studies on either, however: it's a very popular topic in the news. This is a fast-changing situation and we all need to keep up: citing data or propaganda from last winter isn't useful. Things are suddenly very different, because Delta is essentially a different disease.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> No, I don't bother with Facebook and Twitter. You could probably find info about these studies on either, however: it's a very popular topic in the news. This is a fast-changing situation and we all need to keep up: citing data or propaganda from last winter isn't useful. Things are suddenly very different, because Delta is essentially a different disease.


99% of americans ain't getting either.


----------



## Lesh (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> No, I don't bother with Facebook and Twitter. You could probably find info about these studies on either, however: it's a very popular topic in the news. This is a fast-changing situation and we all need to keep up: citing data or propaganda from last winter isn't useful. Things are suddenly very different, because Delta is essentially a different disease.


A. It is NOT a different disease. It is essentially the same albeit more contagious version.

And if you are going to talk about studies, you ought to be able to link to them. Otherwise you are not even as credible as Facebook garbage


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Very very few are dying and very few are even being asymptotically infected.
> 
> Whether you mean to or not you are encouraging people to not get vaccinated. Why would you do that?


It may not matter anymore. R8? No one will escape. The only remaining question is whether vaccinated people have a less serious illness. And don't cite propaganda from last winter; Delta is not the same as back then!

The docs are now asking whether they should develop another vaccine quickly (I read one who said it would only take a month or so, on the back of what they already did) --- and start all over! He seemed to think that was crazy, but if this disease is more mortal than the Alpha, I bet people would go for it.


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

Lesh said:


> A. It is NOT a different disease. It is essentially the same albeit more contagious version.


Interesting question. I said different disease because it has with 4 or 5 mutations escaped the vaccine. It is ALSO more contagious, but that's not the same issue. Does a virus being able to evade the vaccine make it a completely different illness? I want to see what the epidemiologists say about that.


----------



## Blues Man (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> You don't know that vaccinated people don't get as sick: the docs lie whenever their mouths are moving and have since the beginning in March 2020. I can't tell what is going on yet -- the "keep 'em calm" reflexive lies are all still going on. This country is at least still free enough that we should hear what is actually going on within a couple weeks, I hope. I hope vaccinated people DON'T get as sick, but if 74% of the people getting this Delta are vaccinated, that makes me nervous.
> 
> As for blaming the nonvax Americans ------------------- you do realize this Delta mutated and spread in INDIA?? It had nothing to do with us, any of us. It's just spreading here --- possibly more to the vaccinated than to the non-vaccinated, for some reason I would love to hear elucidated.


From th CDC

163000000 vaccinated

6587 breakthrough infections  or .004% 
1263 deaths from breakthrough infections or .0008%

It's pretty obvious vaccination lowers the possibility of both contracting COVID or dying from it


----------



## Blues Man (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> Wrong: 74% of infected people were vaccinated in the four studies promulgated all over the news last week. 74% is not the same as 1%, Blues. You gotta keep up with the news, like READING it, in a fast-moving situation. Don't just keep parroting [propaganda you read a couple months ago.
> 
> I think some of you people, Blues and Rigby for instance, simply make up the numbers you wish were true.



Not according to the CDC and I think I'll take their word over yours.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 2, 2021)

FACT:
Vaccinated people are dying.  They are getting covid, they are getting delta.  Vaccinated people are DYING.

I am only presenting facts, I am not telling people what they should do.  Transparency is everything.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Aug 2, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> From th CDC
> 
> 163000000 vaccinated
> 
> ...



Keep repeating that until maybe you can believe it


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> From th CDC
> 
> 163000000 vaccinated
> 
> ...


That is SOOOOO last month. Now is what's happening.


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> FACT:
> Vactivated people are dying.  They are getting covid, they are getting delta.  Vaccinated people are DYING.
> 
> I am only presenting facts, I am not telling people what they should do.  Transparency is everything.


"Vactivated" is a good word. I think I'll borrow that -----


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

Lesh said:


> A. It is NOT a different disease. It is essentially the same albeit more contagious version.


you don't know shit about any of it.  Stop with the medical advice you know fking nothing about!  you aren't convincing because you're a nobody!!


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> Keep repeating that until maybe you can believe it


you don't?  why?  cause NBC told you so?  hahahaahahahahaha, dude/dudette, you have fking nothing to counter with here but that post, and that says it all!!!!!


----------



## Lesh (Aug 2, 2021)

jc456 said:


> you don't?  why?  cause NBC told you so?  hahahaahahahahaha, dude/dudette, you have fking nothing to counter with here but that post, and that says it all!!!!!


Jc is a troll


----------



## Lesh (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> "Vactivated" is a good word. I think I'll borrow that -----


You of course had the vaccine right?


----------



## healthmyths (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> No, that's incorrect: these infections despite the vaccine are not at all rare; the worrying thing is that they may be MORE common in vaccinated people than in unvaccinated people. 74% keeps popping up -- of Delta-infected people, that's the percentage who were vaccinated in the last four studies done on the hop this past week or two. We need more studies and data (and some control groups would be so nice!!!) but this business of saying they are rare has to stop: Delta is a mutated virus and it has evaded the vaccine. That's what is going on, and fast.


Who are you?  What is your expertise?  Where is your substantiation?


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

healthmyths said:


> Who are you?  What is your expertise?  Where is your substantiation?


I read. I keep up. Which clearly a lot of people here haven't done since last winter. And they don't realize that time passes, things change.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Jc is a troll


you can't converse, and that makes you the troll.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 2, 2021)

antontoo said:


> Science is a process that examines what is happening and what has happened was a mutation of Covid-19 into even more contagious variant called Delta.


The science changes every day, according to what Facebook and Fau Chi say the science is that day.


----------



## DrLove (Aug 2, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated people are dying.  They are dying from the jab, they are dying from delta, they are dying from covid.  Vaccinated people are DYING.


They are NOT dying. Health officials in nearly every state are telling you that over 96% of those being hospitalized and those dying are unvaccinated. So play LALALALA all you like, intelligent folks are onto your dangerous lies.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

DrLove said:


> They are NOT dying. Health officials in nearly every state are telling you that over 96% of those being hospitalized and those dying are unvaccinated. So play LALALALA all you like, intelligent folks are onto your dangerous lies.
> 
> View attachment 520495


figures that can't be substantiated.  show us.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 2, 2021)

DrLove said:


> They are NOT dying. Health officials in nearly every state are telling you that over 96% of those being hospitalized and those dying are unvaccinated. So play LALALALA all you like, intelligent folks are onto your dangerous lies.


Vaccinated people are dying. They are dying from the jab, they are dying from delta, they are dying from covid. Vaccinated people are DYING


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 2, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated people are dying. They are dying from the jab, they are dying from delta, they are dying from covid. Vaccinated people are DYING


Even less than are dying from the pandemic.  Why such fear-mongering when right-wingers don't even want to mask up.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 2, 2021)

jc456 said:


> figures that can't be substantiated.  show us.


Even if his figures are correct, they still prove my statement.


----------



## DrLove (Aug 2, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated people are dying. They are dying from the jab, they are dying from delta, they are dying from covid. Vaccinated people are DYING


Say it another 10,000 times Rainman (you will or will at least continue until they put you on a vent ;-)


----------



## DrLove (Aug 2, 2021)

jc456 said:


> figures that can't be substantiated.  show us.


Choose your source Loony Bird

health officials over 96% of those hospitalized and dead are unvaccinated


----------



## evenflow1969 (Aug 2, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> View attachment 519169
> wow
> 
> 
> ...


Yep it's the demo rats fault that the desease mutated before it was stoped. Had nothing to do with idiots calling it a hoax, not wearing masks, giving millions of opportunities to mutate by not stipping it quick enough. Back in the day the shit was stamped out inside a month when they quarantined quickly and posted gun men around towns infected. Go with that short bus.


----------



## boedicca (Aug 2, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> What are the Nuremburg Laws?  Last I checked, Nuremburg was the site of the war crimes trials of the Nazis post WWII.



The Nuremburg Code - which Mandatory Vaccines would violate:

The voluntary consent of the human subject is essential. This means that the person involved should have the legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, over-reaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved, as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. This latter element requires that, before the acceptance of an affirmative decision by the experimental subject, there should be made known to him the effects upon his health or person, which may come from his participation in the experiment.
The experiment should be such as to yield fruitful results for the good of society, unprocurable by other methods or means of study, and not random and unnecessary in nature.
The experiment should be so designed and based on the results of animal experimentation.
The experiment should be so conducted as to avoid all unnecessary physical and mental suffering and injury.
No experiment should be conducted where there is an _a priori_ reason to believe that death or disabling injury will occur.
The degree of risk to be taken should never exceed that determined by the humanitarian importance of the problem to be solved by the experiment.
Proper preparations should be made, and adequate facilities provided to protect the experimental subject against even remote possibilities of injury, disability, or death.
The experiment should be conducted only by scientifically qualified persons. The highest degree of skill and care should be required through all stages of the experiment of those who conduct or engage in the experiment.
During the course of the experiment, the human subject should be at liberty to bring the experiment to an end if he has reached the physical or mental state where continuation of the experiment seems to him to be impossible.
 During the course of the experiment, the scientist in charge must be prepared to terminate the experiment at any stage, if he has probable cause to believe, in the exercise of the good faith, superior skill, and careful judgment required of him that a continuation of the experiment is likely to result in injury, disability, or death to the experimental subject.


----------



## healthmyths (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> I read. I keep up. Which clearly a lot of people here haven't done since last winter. And they don't realize that time passes, things change.


I read.  I keep up.  But when I am putting out information that influences opinions I am NOT an expert on most matters.  Hence I provide simple links.


----------



## Rigby5 (Aug 2, 2021)

antontoo said:


> Again that is bullshit.
> 
> Science is a process that examines what is happening and what has happened was a mutation of Covid-19 into even more contagious variant called Delta.
> 
> Nature of Covid-19 has changed and science is explaining to you how.



Not really true.
Mutations are random events like radiation damage, and almost always result in being non-viable.
Successful mutations take millions of years by random chance.
Variants are not recent mutations.
They either are ancient and just brought out by natural selection, or are actually hybrid's, where the RNA of 2 virus were injected into the same cell nucleus and mixed.

While there are more super spreaders with Delta variant, it is also less lethal, so insignificant.
In fact, it likely is the best way to just end the whole epidemic.
That is what science says ended all past epidemics.
A less lethal but more infectious strain.


----------



## Rigby5 (Aug 2, 2021)

Synthaholic said:


> Define seriously ill.



Any permanent effects.


----------



## Rigby5 (Aug 2, 2021)

Synthaholic said:


> The topic confirms that you must get vaccinated.



Wrong.
The risks from not FDA approved, experimental vaccines, are huge.
The vaccines could have a 100% fatality rate some time in the future.
We don't know yet.

But everyone should be suspicious.
Since the virus kills no one, and all the deaths are from a hyped up immune system allergic over reaction, then clearly sensitizing the immune system even more with an unknown vaccine is an extremely risky and contrary idea.


----------



## Rigby5 (Aug 2, 2021)

22lcidw said:


> All I know is that babies and those in the womb are dying in numbers.



Essentially not true.
Of the 660,000 dead in the US from covid-19, only about 400 are under 18, and that is including fetal deaths.
The vaccine however has killed several dozen fetuses and is a well known risk to pregnant mothers.
Babies and those under 18 have shown a high inherent immunity to covid-19.
The vaccines are not recommended for those under 12 because the vaccine has much higher risk then the virus, for them.


----------



## Rigby5 (Aug 2, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> People vaccinated for polio can still cary and spread the disease. Are you against polio vaccinations too?



The Polio vaccine is FDA approved, these mRNA vaccines are not.


----------



## Rigby5 (Aug 2, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> . If you can't see the drastic reduction in cases and deaths since the vaccine was released, you are stupid. I can't help your stupidity.



Since recovery confers immunity, it is most likely that it is the recovered who are causing the reduction of new infections.


----------



## Rigby5 (Aug 2, 2021)

boedicca said:


> The Nuremburg Code - which Mandatory Vaccines would violate:
> 
> The voluntary consent of the human subject is essential. This means that the person involved should have the legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, over-reaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved, as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. This latter element requires that, before the acceptance of an affirmative decision by the experimental subject, there should be made known to him the effects upon his health or person, which may come from his participation in the experiment.
> The experiment should be such as to yield fruitful results for the good of society, unprocurable by other methods or means of study, and not random and unnecessary in nature.
> ...



And since these mRNA vaccines are not FDA approved, they are illegal to mandate.


----------



## boedicca (Aug 2, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> And since these mRNA vaccines are not FDA approved, they are illegal to mandate.



That is correct.  This is one reason why the Xiden Admin is saying businesses should do the mandating.  When the sh*t hits the fan, they'll blame the businesses.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 2, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> View attachment 519169
> wow
> 
> 
> ...


So get vaccinated and protected from death then, dope.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 2, 2021)

bugs said:


> Confused yet...................???????????
> Trust Them?
> LOL!


If you’re still confused after 18+ months, you might just be retarded.


----------



## Rigby5 (Aug 2, 2021)

DrLove said:


> They are NOT dying. Health officials in nearly every state are telling you that over 96% of those being hospitalized and those dying are unvaccinated. So play LALALALA all you like, intelligent folks are onto your dangerous lies.
> 
> View attachment 520495



Wrong.
Not only are thousands of vaccinated people already dead from the vaccine, but the number who will die from the vaccine in the future is totally unknown.
It could be the vaccine will kill all those vaccinated.
We don't know.
But there obviously are risks to hyping up the immune system when it already is an overly hyped up immune system that has killed over 600,000 people.
Yes, it is the immune system allergic reaction that has killed those with covid-19, not the virus.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 2, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> They admit the vaccine doesn’t stop the spread, but they want everyone to get it and “will make life as tough as possible for the unvaccinated”
> 
> These are crimes against humanity and go against Nuremberg Laws


The vaccine was only ever meant to prevent severe cases and death. It does. Get with the program.


----------



## Rigby5 (Aug 2, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Even less than are dying from the pandemic.  Why such fear-mongering when right-wingers don't even want to mask up.



You don't know that, since the effects of the vaccination may be life long and fatal.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 2, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> How are you supposed to trust the science, when the science clearly shows you to not trust it???


The science changes as new data emerges. That’s called the scientific method. IOW, Learning. Not lying.
You’re just watching it evolve in real time rather than after it’s finished. 
The vaccine is the pathway out.


----------



## Rigby5 (Aug 2, 2021)

DrLove said:


> Say it another 10,000 times Rainman (you will or will at least continue until they put you on a vent ;-)



Never put anyone on a ventilator.
European studies have shown that pneumonia procedures, like chemical coma, intubation, etc., is murder.
They have shown vastly better results by frequent turning patients to drain the lungs, especially a face down position.
Even slow treadmills help to clear the lungs.


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

healthmyths said:


> I read.  I keep up.  But when I am putting out information that influences opinions I am NOT an expert on most matters.  Hence I provide simple links.


Go right ahead. I'm sure I'll read them with interest.


----------



## Rigby5 (Aug 2, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> So get vaccinated and protected from death then, dope.



The death risk from covi-19 is extremely low and almost zero if under 40.
The risk from the vaccines are totally unknown since they are not FDA approved, and could be 100% fatal eventually.


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> The vaccine was only ever meant to prevent severe cases and death. It does. Get with the program.


Nonsense. They promised us it would PREVENT catching Covid. Just like their lies about the worthless flu vaccines. And then we could go maskless! the pols said. What a pile of liars.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 2, 2021)

pknopp said:


> The claim is now that vaccinated people are spreading it. With that being the headline, what difference does it make? Does that not then make the decision a personal one?


It imagine it makes a difference to those who can’t find an available ICU bed when needed and the those who must staff them 24/7.


----------



## Rigby5 (Aug 2, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> If you’re still confused after 18+ months, you might just be retarded.



Anyone who would "flatten the curve" for 18 months should be charged with murder.
Everyone knows epidemics spread geometrically, so you should never give them more time.


----------



## Rigby5 (Aug 2, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> The vaccine was only ever meant to prevent severe cases and death. It does. Get with the program.



But the vaccine causes its own deaths, and we don't yet know if it will cause even more than the virus.


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Never put anyone on a ventilator.
> European studies have shown that pneumonia procedures, like chemical coma, intubation, etc., is murder.
> They have shown vastly better results by frequent turning patients to drain the lungs, especially a face down position.
> Even slow treadmills help to clear the lungs.


Now here I totally agree with you, Rigby. I think everyone who died on a ventilator, their families should sue the killer docs. It's so wrong.


----------



## Rigby5 (Aug 2, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> The science changes as new data emerges. That’s called the scientific method. IOW, Learning. Not lying.
> You’re just watching it evolve in real time rather than after it’s finished.
> The vaccine is the pathway out.



The best pathways out were 17 months ago.
The vaccines are not FDA approved, so make no sense.


----------



## Rigby5 (Aug 2, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> It imagine it makes a difference to those who can’t find an available ICU bed when needed and the those who must staff them 24/7.



No ICU was ever over flowed because we have mobile FEMA units not even ever needed.
If we had used immuno suppressants more, no one had to die at all.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

jc456 said:


> figures that can't be substantiated.  show us.


DrLove show us the figures


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> It imagine it makes a difference to those who can’t find an available ICU bed when needed and the those who must staff them 24/7.


Good point, but if people followed the propaganda and got vaccinated, it is hardly their fault when Delta leapfrogs over the vaccine and infects the whole population. That's a double blind, blaming people when they do or when they don't. Not fair.

It is interesting to see that quite a few of you think we should DO something, that there MUST be something people can do to control, control all this. What if there isn't? Like with the bubonic plague in 1348? Or the Spanish Flu? Or all the lethal yellow fever outbreaks in the 1700s-1800s spread by mosquitoes? 

That's where I am right now, realizing we could be in trouble here. The Reuters story about Delta, sicker quicker, and the stories about Lambda coming up from Peru and Chile made me think.

It may be time to focus on good outcomes and good recoveries rather than prevention.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> No ICU was ever over flowed because we have mobile FEMA units not even ever needed.
> If we had used immuno suppressants more, no one had to die at all.


that was the purported angle that was never true.  NEVER!!!!!!!!!! All hospitals held all of their information, it was impossible for anyone to get that information.  It still is, they are hiding the hide.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> Good point, but if people followed the propaganda and got vaccinated, it is hardly their fault when Delta leapfrogs over the vaccine and infects the whole population. That's a double blind, blaming people when they do or when they don't. Not fair.
> 
> It is interesting to see that quite a few of you think we should DO something, that there MUST be something people can do to control, control all this. What if there isn't? Like with the bubonic plague in 1348? Or the Spanish Flu? Or all the lethal yellow fever outbreaks in the 1700s-1800s spread by mosquitoes?
> 
> ...


wearing masks won't stop it.  Kind of stupid to make people sicker by restricting breathing.


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

jc456 said:


> wearing masks won't stop it.  Kind of stupid to make people sicker by restricting breathing.


You won't get an argument from me. I haven't put one on yet.

I was hoping to hunker down and wait it out!! They cancelled the masks ---- for the last four weeks only! And now here comes the rest of the Covid Greek alphabet. Darn, sometimes we can't win for losing.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 2, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> That was science from 2 days ago. Yesterday’s science has changed. Remember, it’s not the experts’ change in opinion or them being wrong, it’s the science that is changing.
> 
> “vaccination alone will not stop spread of variants” - CNN
> 
> ...





Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> We are living in an upside down world


I’m sure that’s how it seems when you’re incompetent in understanding the world around you. The right struggles bigly with this.


----------



## DrLove (Aug 2, 2021)

jc456 said:


> DrLove show us the figures


I did - Now beat it


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> The vaccine is the pathway out.


Pretty plainly not a way out since the Delta variant has already leapfrogged right over it, infecting everyone, and here comes Lambda, same deal. 

A lot of you are really hanging on to what they used to say --- you aren't accepting the changed circumstances. 
What's going on is, they can't stop this.


----------



## DrLove (Aug 2, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> Not only are thousands of vaccinated people already dead from the vaccine, but the number who will die from the vaccine in the future is totally unknown.
> It could be the vaccine will kill all those vaccinated.
> We don't know.
> ...


VERY few have died from the vaccine, and 96% of those being hospitalized and dying at present are unvaccinated.
Stop spreading dangerous misinformation.


----------



## DrLove (Aug 2, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Never put anyone on a ventilator.
> European studies have shown that pneumonia procedures, like chemical coma, intubation, etc., is murder.
> They have shown vastly better results by frequent turning patients to drain the lungs, especially a face down position.
> Even slow treadmills help to clear the lungs.


Slow treadmills? Did you get that on Facebook?


----------



## DrLove (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> You won't get an argument from me. I haven't put one on yet.
> 
> I was hoping to hunker down and wait it out!! They cancelled the masks ---- for the last four weeks only! And now here comes the rest of the Covid Greek alphabet. Darn, sometimes we can't win for losing.


You can't win, because you are a misinformed loser


----------



## ClaireH (Aug 2, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> When lefties support mask mandates for vaccinated people, they are demonstrating that they do not believe the vaccine works.  If the vaccine worked, vaccinated people would not need masks, and they would not be getting covid and delta.


The national media jumped on the band wagon fully declaring repeatedly people who are not exhibiting any symptoms of the virus are spreading the virus. According to some experts in the field, only between 1% and 1.5% is the rate of transmission between asymptomatic people spreading it through the population. I fully bought into the idea that tens of thousands, (perhaps more) of people are spreading the virus who don’t know they’re even sick and it’s not proven nor accurate!

As we continue to peel back the onion to expose more corruptive connections, fervent maneuvers are working overtime to successfully fool the masses for as long as possible. The virus itself is no hoax, however, it is a collective group who have enormous megaphones around the globe that are stalling the release of accurate  information.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> No, that's incorrect: these infections despite the vaccine are not at all rare; the worrying thing is that they may be MORE common in vaccinated people than in unvaccinated people. 74% keeps popping up -- of Delta-infected people, that's the percentage who were vaccinated in the last four studies done on the hop this past week or two. We need more studies and data (and some control groups would be so nice!!!) but this business of saying they are rare has to stop: Delta is a mutated virus and it has evaded the vaccine. That's what is going on, and fast.


That is absolutely incorrect. It is not 74% of new cases. Just stop.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 2, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> The risks from not FDA approved,


Even if the FDA approves these jabs, the FDA is compromised and can't be trusted.   They are colluding with Fau Chi, the biden administration,  the MSM, and big tech to override science and force a political narrative.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 2, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated people are super spreaders


You need to ditch Newsmax


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> That is absolutely incorrect. It is not 74% of new cases. Just stop.


Yep. The Israeli study, the Provincetown/Cape Cod study, and the two San Francisco hospital studies reported just two days ago. People, keep UP. We've got a situation here. 

Just look them up anywhere if you don't believe me: these numbers are everywhere, if you are willing to look at current news. If you are determined to close your eyes and cling to the propaganda and hope from last winter and spring, you may get some surprises as the summer goes on.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 2, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> The death risk from covi-19 is extremely low and almost zero if under 40.
> The risk from the vaccines are totally unknown since they are not FDA approved, and could be 100% fatal eventually.


UhHuh. Tell that to those in the full ICUs.


----------



## ClaireH (Aug 2, 2021)

Sunsettommy said:


> It sure is puzzling that YOU ignored the fact that it has been gone from the country since 1979, DESPITE that 99% of Americans are Vaccinated against it.
> 
> Heck after they started vaccinating the people, it rapidly vanished from the country since the late 1950's, that sounds like there isn't any transmission of the virus by those who are vaccinated.
> 
> *BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!*


The  purpose is to convince populations, particularly here in the United States, that we can no longer count on our immune system to work. This is the big picture and I didn’t even realize it until yesterday after reading several informative articles. Big Pharma wants us to believe now that humans depend on multiple future vaccines to be developed, massively distributed, and authorized via government mandates perhaps, for citizens to utilize as the “only way” to survive. Once people start to believe this… that our immune system’s just aren’t worth a crap even though we’ve survived up until now with only a handful of tried and true vaccines for many decades, the puppet masters will gleefully abide. Once a majority of people start to actually believe that our immune systems just aren’t worth a crap, even though we’ve survived up until now using only a few tried and true vaccines for many decades, that we are now going to be exposed to all kinds of new dangers… and the message they want us to believe is that without “prepping” our bodies for future unknown attacks we be told we need annual shots, perhaps more than one each year, whether we need them or not, whether they’re helpful or not.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 2, 2021)

DrLove said:


> VERY few have died from the vaccine, and 96% of those being hospitalized and dying at present are unvaccinated.
> Stop spreading dangerous misinformation.


Vaccinated people are dying.  If you have gotten the jab, you should learn about early in home treatment.  Early treatment can be the difference between life and death.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> Good point, but if people followed the propaganda and got vaccinated, it is hardly their fault when Delta leapfrogs over the vaccine and infects the whole population. That's a double blind, blaming people when they do or when they don't. Not fair.
> 
> It is interesting to see that quite a few of you think we should DO something, that there MUST be something people can do to control, control all this. What if there isn't? Like with the bubonic plague in 1348? Or the Spanish Flu? Or all the lethal yellow fever outbreaks in the 1700s-1800s spread by mosquitoes?
> 
> ...


The ICUs aren’t full of the vaccinated, dope.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Aug 2, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> So are you neither DemonRat nor on the Right but are blind to the fact there there is a Globalist movement to install a One World Marxist government and you think everyone should be forced vaccinated??



Where did I say any of that?

You used CNN as a source.  That means the odds are that whatever they say is a lie, no matter what the topic!


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 2, 2021)

ClaireH said:


> The purpose is to convince populations, particularly here in the United States, that we can no longer count on our immune system to work.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Aug 2, 2021)

ClaireH said:


> The national media jumped on the band wagon fully declaring repeatedly people who are not exhibiting any symptoms of the virus are spreading the virus. According to some experts in the field, only between 1% and 1.5% is the rate of transmission between asymptomatic people spreading it through the population. I fully bought into the idea that tens of thousands, (perhaps more) of people are spreading the virus who don’t know they’re even sick and it’s not proven nor accurate!
> 
> As we continue to peel back the onion to expose more corruptive connections, fervent maneuvers are working overtime to successfully fool the masses for as long as possible. The virus itself is no hoax, however, it is a collective group who have enormous megaphones around the globe that are stalling the release of accurate  information.


Best statement I have seen on this message board.  Well done!


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> When lefties support mask mandates for vaccinated people, they are demonstrating that they do not believe the vaccine works.  If the vaccine worked, vaccinated people would not need masks, and they would not be getting covid and delta.


This first thing you said is so true. It's been obvious from the beginning, that the whole mask dodge is because they knew there were problems with the vaccine. All the same, the vaccine worked pretty well against Alpha --- but now Alpha is gone and Delta doesn't care anything about the vaccine.

This is a surprisingly bad development. I did not expect the virus to mutate right outside the stopping power of the vaccine. Not so soon!

Remember when docs were blue-skying about what could/might happen in the future, mutations evading the vaccine, the virus getting more virulent, all that "one day maybe" stuff? Darn, I didn't think it would start in JULY.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 2, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> The ICUs aren’t full of the vaccinated, dope.


Vaccinated people are DYING.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

DrLove said:


> I did - Now beat it


sure you did, Demofks greatest line--"i did"


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> The ICUs aren’t full of the vaccinated, dope.


how do you know that exactly?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> This first thing you said is so true. It's been obvious from the beginning, that the whole mask dodge is because they knew there were problems with the vaccine. All the same, the vaccine worked pretty well against Alpha --- but now Alpha is gone and Delta doesn't care anything about the vaccine.
> 
> This is a surprisingly bad development. I did not expect the virus to mutate right outside the stopping power of the vaccine. Not so soon!
> 
> Remember when docs were blue-skying about what could/might happen in the future, mutations evading the vaccine, the virus getting more virulent, all that "one day maybe" stuff? Darn, I didn't think it would start in JULY.


it's all a rouse.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 2, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated people are DYING.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Aug 2, 2021)

boedicca said:


> The Nuremburg Code - which Mandatory Vaccines would violate:
> 
> The voluntary consent of the human subject is essential. This means that the person involved should have the legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, over-reaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved, as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. This latter element requires that, before the acceptance of an affirmative decision by the experimental subject, there should be made known to him the effects upon his health or person, which may come from his participation in the experiment.
> The experiment should be such as to yield fruitful results for the good of society, unprocurable by other methods or means of study, and not random and unnecessary in nature.
> ...


How?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

DrLove said:


> You can't win, because you are a misinformed loser


can't win what?


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 2, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> You need to ditch Newsmax


I ditched it not long after ditching FOX and going to oan


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 2, 2021)

jc456 said:


> how do you know that exactly?


How exactly do you not? 
wake up, retard.


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

BluesLegend said:


> They are LYING only days prior experts at the CDC said it would be quite rare for someone vaccinated to spread the variant. Then as if by government lying magic days later a vaccinated person is a variant super spreader. Someone flick stupid Biden in the ear.


!! Good point. 

Really, you know, they are sort of saying that in the new studies last week -- more virus by a thousand times? Spreading much more quickly because of all the virus in the nose, and vaccines don't work?  Darn, sounds like conspiracy theories, but it came from Reuters. 

I'm not going to say anyone with a vaccine could be a super spreader of Delta or whatever. People are trying their best and the virus is just outwitting us.


----------



## DrLove (Aug 2, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated people are dying.  If you have gotten the jab, you should learn about early in home treatment.  Early treatment can be the difference between life and death.


Know what? FUCK YOU RAINMAN!!


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> How?


Tonto?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

DrLove said:


> Know what? FUCK YOU RAINMAN!!


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> The ICUs aren’t full of the vaccinated, dope.


You may want to wait a couple weeks before you call names --- hospitalization is a lagging indicator, or has been, though now Reuters is saying sicker quicker with Delta, so we'll find out if that's true, that vaccinated people are landing in the ICU. I hope not, but hope is not a fact.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> !! Good point.
> 
> Really, you know, they are sort of saying that in the new studies last week -- more virus by a thousand times? Spreading much more quickly because of all the virus in the nose, and vaccines don't work?  Darn, sounds like conspiracy theories, but it came from Reuters.
> 
> I'm not going to say anyone with a vaccine could be a super spreader of Delta or whatever. People are trying their best and the virus is just outwitting us.


it's funny, thirteen months no vaccines, no variants,  and as soon as vaccines started to be deployed, the variants starting popping up.  I know demofks don't do math, but still it's really obvious to those with brains,


----------



## otto105 (Aug 2, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> View attachment 519169
> wow
> 
> 
> ...


Fail.


----------



## otto105 (Aug 2, 2021)

jc456 said:


> it's funny, thirteen months no vaccines, no variants,  and as soon as vaccines started to be deployed, the variants starting popping up.  I know demofks don't do math, but still it's really obvious to those with brains,


So, when did the UK variant first show?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> How exactly do you not?
> wake up, retard.


someone told you from CNN, that's how you think you know? hhaahahahaahahahaahahaha you don't know shit jack.  look up hospitals around the country, you're inventing nonsense.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

otto105 said:


> So, when did the UK variant first show?


after they deployed a vaccine. what is it you missed?


----------



## Sunsettommy (Aug 2, 2021)

ClaireH said:


> The  purpose is to convince populations, particularly here in the United States, that we can no longer count on our immune system to work. This is the big picture and I didn’t even realize it until yesterday after reading several informative articles. Big Pharma wants us to believe now that humans depend on multiple future vaccines to be developed, massively distributed, and authorized via government mandates perhaps, for citizens to utilize as the “only way” to survive. Once people start to believe this… that our immune system’s just aren’t worth a crap even though we’ve survived up until now with only a handful of tried and true vaccines for many decades, the puppet masters will gleefully abide. Once a majority of people start to actually believe that our immune systems just aren’t worth a crap, even though we’ve survived up until now using only a few tried and true vaccines for many decades, that we are now going to be exposed to all kinds of new dangers… and the message they want us to believe is that without “prepping” our bodies for future unknown attacks we be told we need annual shots, perhaps more than one each year, whether we need them or not, whether they’re helpful or not.



I can agree up to a certain point, but some vaccines were necessary as the diseases where not going away and devastating to the country, but other vaccines such as the annual flu is unnecessary since the annual flu while it can be unpleasant isn't devastating to the country.

I think Pharma and leftists are colluding on the China Virus (May have been created in a lab) while contagious isn't close to being devastating at all to the world, there is a 98% and increasing recovery rate for infected people, making vaccine for this unnecessary since the impact of the virus itself was actually minor as most deaths were caused by existing underlying health problems, it is the stupid media and governments who went waaaaay overboard on it.


----------



## ClaireH (Aug 2, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> That is absolutely incorrect. It is not 74% of new cases. Just stop.


I’ll go one even farther….the fact that anyone is even promoting the current vaccines when they know it’s not effective against Delta variant is total lunacy. If one were to subscribe to the theory that the Delta virus is in fact a variant, and was not even known at the time of the development of the current vaccines, it’s not “covered”. What is it now 80% of people in the United States are being exposed to Delta not the former? Anyone who says people need to rush out and get an already outdated vaccine right now, with great risks for many, when the Delta is the primary spreader really needs to rethink that idea. Save your breath about it’s been proven to reduce symptoms, as I am questioning that currently. That’s probably as provable as the media’s/governmental falsehood that multitudes of people are out spreading the virus who are asymptomatic….. which is a total lie. Like I didn’t have to question enough already.


----------



## otto105 (Aug 2, 2021)

jc456 said:


> after they deployed a vaccine. what is it you missed?


So, now viruses don't mutate unless it encounters a vaccine....doesn't do that normally.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

Sunsettommy said:


> I can agree up to a certain point, but some vaccines were necessary as the diseases where not going away and devastating to the country, but other vaccines such as the annual flu is unnecessary since the annual flu while it can be unpleasant isn't devastating to the country.
> 
> I think Pharma and leftists are colluding on the China Virus (May have been created in a lab) while contagious isn't close to being devastating at all to the world, there is a 98% and increasing recovery rate for infected people, making vaccine for this unnecessary since the impact of the virus itself was actually minor as most deaths were caused by existing underlying health problems, it is the stupid media and governments who went waaaaay overboard on it.


the flu vaccine was always deployed after the virus went away. So getting a flu shot was always a variant behind. Always!!!!!!!!!! how fking stupid are people, holy crap batman, the society dropped their brains.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

otto105 said:


> So, now viruses don't mutate unless it encounters a vaccine....doesn't do that normally.


I never said that at all.  you read into my post something that wasn't there.  Congratulations bubba!!!!  Now go reread my post.


----------



## otto105 (Aug 2, 2021)

jc456 said:


> after they deployed a vaccine. what is it you missed?


11/2020?

We had a vaccine then?


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

jc456 said:


> it's funny, thirteen months no vaccines, no variants,  and as soon as vaccines started to be deployed, the variants starting popping up.  I know demofks don't do math, but still it's really obvious to those with brains,


If you are implying that vaccines promoted the evolution of the mutants that can evade the vaccine ---- duh, of course they did!! I mean, what else could have. They are saying this Delta has 4 or 5 mutations, and that's weird in itself (I'm still a little worried about biowarfare, all this is so strange). The mutation wouldn't have mattered if no vaccine, but as India had a mix of 1.3 billion people dying in the streets, vaccinated and novax, everything all mixed up and chaotic, the Delta mutations were selected for and now they are going gangbusters all over the world. 

I wonder what they'll try next. Maybe another vaccine. 

They'll keep pushing the masks because a lot of people believe in them, and whatever people believe in makes them easier to control, especially if it's dramatic and conspicuous and yucky. 

But the masks are useless and won't stop the spread. The BEST thing would be if this Delta is mild and asymptomatic, because we can't stop it. That's what I want.


----------



## boedicca (Aug 2, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> How?




You really need me to explain how forcing someone to take a vaccine against his will is in violation of the Nuremburg code?   It's pretty self-evident if one has proper reading comprehension skills.  But as you need help:

_All COVID vaccines emergency authorized by the FDA have not yet been approved and are experimental, as they have undergone no long-term safety trials.  Safety data are being partially collected in real time as adverse events are reported to VAERS.  The tenets of the Nuremberg Code apply here as these vaccines are — by definition — a medical experiment being administered worldwide.  

Given that, the explicit statement in #1 that subjects not be subject to coercion raises the question: does the threat of losing one's job, not being able to attend college, or not being able to travel or attend a live event constitute coercion?  Does the president of the United States urging Americans to "get the shot" and then threatening to send emissaries door to door to "encourage" it constitute coercion?  Is it coercion to establish two Americas in which one half that chooses vaccination gets to eschew masks and move about freely, while the other half that doesn't must stay masked and have their essential freedoms proscribed?

Later in #1, the text explicitly states that the subject must be made aware of "the effects upon his health or person."  This is known as informed consent: patients need to be made fully aware of the potential dangers of a medical procedure in keeping with the Hippocratic oath.  There have been many reports of adverse events from the COVID vaccines, including Bell's palsy, seizures, blood clotting, heart inflammation, and death.  How many people reading this who got the vaccine had these potential side effects explained to them before getting jabbed?  How many were afforded informed consent?_









						Nullifying Nuremberg
					

Dr. Josef Mengele is one of the true monsters of history.  His profoundly evil medical experiments on Jews, the disabled, the mentally impaired, and other Third Reich deplorables are the stuff of pitch-black fever dreams.  Combini...




					www.americanthinker.com


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

otto105 said:


> 11/2020?
> 
> We had a vaccine then?


Europe did.


----------



## boedicca (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> If you are implying that vaccines promoted the evolution of the mutants that can evade the vaccine ---- duh, of course they did!! I mean, what else could have. They are saying this Delta has 4 or 5 mutations, and that's weird in itself (I'm still a little worried about biowarfare, all this is so strange). The mutation wouldn't have mattered if no vaccine, but as India had a mix of 1.3 billion people dying in the streets, vaccinated and novax, everything all mixed up and chaotic, the Delta mutations were selected for and now they are going gangbusters all over the world.
> 
> I wonder what they'll try next. Maybe another vaccine.
> 
> ...



Bingo.

The standard of Zero Covid is an Authoritarian Tool to void our Civil Rights.

Covid is evolving into just another seasonal respiratory disease for which the death rate is at the level of a typical flu season.  That is no reason to shutdown our economy and destroy The Constitution.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> If you are implying that vaccines promoted the evolution of the mutants that can evade the vaccine ---- duh, of course they did!! I mean, what else could have. They are saying this Delta has 4 or 5 mutations, and that's weird in itself (I'm still a little worried about biowarfare, all this is so strange). The mutation wouldn't have mattered if no vaccine, but as India had a mix of 1.3 billion people dying in the streets, vaccinated and novax, everything all mixed up and chaotic, the Delta mutations were selected for and now they are going gangbusters all over the world.
> 
> I wonder what they'll try next. Maybe another vaccine.
> 
> ...


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> If you are implying that vaccines promoted the evolution of the mutants that can evade the vaccine ---- duh, of course they did!! I mean, what else could have. They are saying this Delta has 4 or 5 mutations, and that's weird in itself (I'm still a little worried about biowarfare, all this is so strange). The mutation wouldn't have mattered if no vaccine, but as India had a mix of 1.3 billion people dying in the streets, vaccinated and novax, everything all mixed up and chaotic, the Delta mutations were selected for and now they are going gangbusters all over the world.
> 
> I wonder what they'll try next. Maybe another vaccine.
> 
> ...


BTW, it's why we keep getting different mutations of the flu, always after shots.


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

ClaireH said:


> I’ll go one even farther….the fact that anyone is even promoting the current vaccines when they know it’s not effective against Delta variant is total lunacy. If one to were to subscribe to the theory that the Delta virus is in fact a variant, and was not even known at the time of the development of the current vaccines, it’s not “covered”. What is it now 80% of people in the United States are being exposed to Delta not the former? Anyone who says people need to rush out and get an already outdated vaccine right now, with great risks for many, when the Delta is the primary spreader really needs to rethink that idea. Save your breath about it’s been proven to reduce symptoms, as I am questioning that currently. That’s probably as provable as the media’s/governmental falsehood that multitudes of people are out spreading the virus who are asymptomatic….. which is a total lie. Like I didn’t have to question enough already.


90% Delta in Cape Cod, that Provincetown study showed. 

Yes: the only reason to go get the second shot or whatever that I can see personally (no one take my advice!! I am just opining) is IFIFIF the symptoms are less dangerous if you do get vactivated, as someone put it. And like you I am real, real interested in seeing some numbers on that, because I am worried about that persistent 74% vaccinated that keeps turning up as of last week, 74% getting infected. Why MORE, why so high a percentage, is what I want to know.


----------



## ClaireH (Aug 2, 2021)

Sunsettommy said:


> I can agree up to a certain point, but some vaccines were necessary as the diseases where not going away and devastating to the country, but other vaccines such as the annual flu is unnecessary since the annual flu while it can be unpleasant isn't devastating to the country.
> 
> I think Pharma and leftists are colluding on the China Virus (May have been created in a lab) while contagious isn't close to being devastating at all to the world, there is a 98% and increasing recovery rate for infected people, making vaccine for this unnecessary since the impact of the virus itself was actually minor as most deaths were caused by existing underlying health problems, it is the stupid media and governments who went waaaaay overboard on it.


I’ve never doubted the need and effectiveness of polio, mumps, Rubella, TB vaxes that I mentioned as a handful of tried and true vaccines that are continued to be wisely utilized for infants. Totally separate area when one looks at the intricacies of the differences between a regular vaccine- like for polio (what we’re used to knowing about what a vaccine does and what it’s for) and explains the reason for coining this concoction as being a “vaccine”, when in fact it is not.

It was a good strategy, because it is known that many more people will put their trust in something that’s called a vaccine. That part about it still being in the experimental phase and it’s a different delivery method entirely and _*even the doctor who invented messenger RNA delivery said don’t use it because the spikes can break off from the cells and after dislodging can freely move around and can wind up in an organ…*_. According to that same doctor they knew that but didn’t disclose it, yeah… that part was left out of the political/ drug companies narrative along with so much more it would seem.


----------



## otto105 (Aug 2, 2021)

jc456 said:


> Europe did.


Sure in DECEMBER


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> 90% Delta in Cape Cod, that Provincetown study showed.
> 
> Yes: the only reason to go get the second shot or whatever that I can see personally (no one take my advice!! I am just opining) is IFIFIF the symptoms are less dangerous if you do get vactivated, as someone put it. And like you I am real, real interested in seeing some numbers on that, because I am worried about that persistent 74% vaccinated that keeps turning up as of last week, 74% getting infected. Why MORE, why so high a percentage, is what I want to know.











						Study: Vaccinated people can carry as much virus as others
					

In another dispiriting setback for the nation’s efforts to stamp out the coronavirus, scientists who studied a big COVID-19 outbreak in Massachusetts concluded that vaccinated people who got so-cal…




					wgntv.com


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

jc456 said:


> BTW, it's why we keep getting different mutations of the flu, always after shots.


Oh, Lord, there's a happy thought. I admit I stopped getting flu shots after I figured out what a fake they were --- 17% efficacy, 26%, at best in the 40 percents??? Darn, and for that they talk us into coming into the doctors' offices and getting nagged to take a lot of expensive and dangerous diagnostic procedures for stuff we didn't have at all? 

No more of that scam for me.

But it didn't occur to me that the flu vaccines might be pushing the mutations. 

You know jc456, you are quite good at logic.


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

ClaireH said:


> It was a good strategy, because it is known that many more people will put their trust in something that’s called a vaccine.


No longer, not for me. I'm pretty disgusted at the degradation of the concept of vaccine that started with these miserable "flu vaccines." What a scam against the public! 

From now on I'm going to investigate whether a vaccine actually works --- like the great old ones you mention, polio, smallpox, mumps, measles, all the many vaccines that actually WORK. You vaccinate someone and they NEVER IN THEIR LIVES GET THE DISEASE. That's what we're looking for. All else is a fraud, I'm thinking now.


----------



## kaz (Aug 2, 2021)

pknopp said:


> I always chuckle at headlines like this.
> 
> Vaccinated _might_ spread the virus.
> 
> ...



You thank Trump for the vaccine every day, don't you?   I do too


----------



## kaz (Aug 2, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> The science changes every day, according to what Facebook and Fau Chi say the science is that day.



Not all the science changes.

1)   Trump still caused the vaccine to be created and the Democrats had nothing to do with it

2)  The Democrats try to take credit for the vaccine you had nothing to do with

3)  There is no evidence that masks work

4)  If you get the vaccine, you are mostly protected

Here is the only thing that changes.

1)  Conservatives say the unvaxed were offered the vaccine and it's on them if they don't take it

2) Leftists attack people who got vaxed and blame us for the people who didn't get vaxed, which makes no sense

Democrats are anti-science.  None also that Democrats don't acknowledge natural immunity.  Roughly have the people who didn't get vaxed had covid and natural immunity


----------



## otto105 (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> No longer, not for me. I'm pretty disgusted at the degradation of the concept of vaccine that started with these miserable "flu vaccines." What a scam against the public!
> 
> From now on I'm going to investigate whether a vaccine actually works --- like the great old ones you mention, polio, smallpox, mumps, measles, all the many vaccines that actually WORK. You vaccinate someone and they NEVER IN THEIR LIVES GET THE DISEASE. That's what we're looking for. All else is a fraud, I'm thinking now.


That should be a good laugh.


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

jc456 said:


> Study: Vaccinated people can carry as much virus as others
> 
> 
> In another dispiriting setback for the nation’s efforts to stamp out the coronavirus, scientists who studied a big COVID-19 outbreak in Massachusetts concluded that vaccinated people who got so-cal…
> ...


I liked this bit from that article:  
"The documents appear to be talking points for CDC staff to use with the public. One point advised: “Acknowledge the war has changed,” an apparent reference to deepening concern that many millions of vaccinated people could be a source of wide-ranging spread."

AAAAARRRRRGGGGGH.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 2, 2021)

ClaireH said:


> I’ll go one even farther….the fact that anyone is even promoting the current vaccines when they know it’s not effective against Delta variant is total lunacy. If one to were to subscribe to the theory that the Delta virus is in fact a variant, and was not even known at the time of the development of the current vaccines, it’s not “covered”. What is it now 80% of people in the United States are being exposed to Delta not the former? Anyone who says people need to rush out and get an already outdated vaccine right now, with great risks for many, when the Delta is the primary spreader really needs to rethink that idea. Save your breath about it’s been proven to reduce symptoms, as I am questioning that currently. That’s probably as provable as the media’s/governmental falsehood that multitudes of people are out spreading the virus who are asymptomatic….. which is a total lie. Like I didn’t have to question enough already.


Spot on


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 2, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> I ditched it not long after ditching FOX and going to oan


TGhen who told you that the vaxxed are superspreader? The fairy god mother?


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 2, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> TGhen who told you that the vaxxed are superspreader? The fairy god mother?


Vaccinated super spreaders are dying.  They are getting covid, they are getting delta.  They are DYING.


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

ClaireH said:


> The  purpose is to convince populations, particularly here in the United States, that we can no longer count on our immune system to work. This is the big picture and I didn’t even realize it until yesterday after reading several informative articles. Big Pharma wants us to believe now that humans depend on multiple future vaccines to be developed, massively distributed, and authorized via government mandates perhaps, for citizens to utilize as the “only way” to survive. Once people start to believe this… that our immune system’s just aren’t worth a crap even though we’ve survived up until now with only a handful of tried and true vaccines for many decades, the puppet masters will gleefully abide. Once a majority of people start to actually believe that our immune systems just aren’t worth a crap, even though we’ve survived up until now using only a few tried and true vaccines for many decades, that we are now going to be exposed to all kinds of new dangers… and the message they want us to believe is that without “prepping” our bodies for future unknown attacks we be told we need annual shots, perhaps more than one each year, whether we need them or not, whether they’re helpful or not.


And here I thought *I* was radical!!  

The medical industry; teaching all Americans to be continual, never-stop patients. Rerouting as much money as possible into the medical and pharma industries. I do have a number of books on this very subject: time to read them, I guess. I would rather not believe this, but things are getting very weird out there ----


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> Oh, Lord, there's a happy thought. I admit I stopped getting flu shots after I figured out what a fake they were --- 17% efficacy, 26%, at best in the 40 percents??? Darn, and for that they talk us into coming into the doctors' offices and getting nagged to take a lot of expensive and dangerous diagnostic procedures for stuff we didn't have at all?
> 
> No more of that scam for me.
> 
> ...


it happened years ago, I took one flu shot.  I got home after the doctor visit and that night's news reported the current batch of serum was for the previous year flu and most likely wouldn't stop the current virus.  I went, well duh!!!!! never again.  The fact that a mutation is always after a previous years flu, didn't add up in my mind.  Then this entire wuhan hoax came out, and all these idiots were all about vaccinate, vaccinate.  It's after the fact, it will always be after the fact.  One cannot get a vaccine that will stop a virus, the virus matures once it meets opposition .  It will always.  It's only logical.


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

ClaireH said:


> the fact that anyone is even promoting the current vaccines when they know it’s not effective against Delta variant is total lunacy.


That's it, right there. It's the idea that if something doesn't work, do it MORE. This idea drives me completely batshit.

Same deal with masks. The masks didn't work to stop the spread? That means more, More, MORE people should wear them, and everywhere!

There is something so fundamentally wrong with this concept, that whatever doesn't work you should do bigger and more ---- it's sure not the way to play video games. After getting killed by the monsters XX times, the trick I've learned is TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> TGhen who told you that the vaxxed are superspreader? The fairy god mother?


here, reported in Chicago on local news:









						Study: Vaccinated people can carry as much virus as others
					

In another dispiriting setback for the nation’s efforts to stamp out the coronavirus, scientists who studied a big COVID-19 outbreak in Massachusetts concluded that vaccinated people who got so-cal…




					wgntv.com
				




_The findings have the potential to upend past thinking about how the disease is spread. Previously, vaccinated people who got infected were thought to have low levels of virus and to be unlikely to pass it to others. But the new data shows that is not the case with the delta variant._


----------



## ClaireH (Aug 2, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> My actual personal experience.
> My son since he's been 2 years of age, every fall comes down with a croupy type of cough due to allergies.  Of course last year, the cough started during the change of seasons (as we had grown accustomed too. Of course, this is during the hype of Covid and I had to take my son to the Dr. to be evaluated and of course they tested him for Covid.  No other symptoms, just the cough.  Dr. said that she would have normally prescribed the steroid and be on our way.  This was a Wednesday.  By Saturday, no call on the test results.  My son's cough was pretty much gone.  But I call the Dr's office to see if they got the results.  Positive for Covid.  My jaw hit the floor.  Really??
> 
> I have a shared parenting plan with my Ex and have my son every other week.  Based on the incubation period and the stated transmissibility of Covid, not only should my household have come down with Covid, but so should my Ex's.  We all got tested as soon as we found out my son tested positive.  Everyone came back negative.  Prior to getting my son tested, the previous Sunday we had a few people over for a birthday gather.  All negative.  My in-laws were exposed from another couple that tested positive.  The viral load would have put them at high risk of contracting.  Negative.
> ...


First of all, I want to say that I’m very glad your son is over his cough and well now. As a parent, I know how scary that would’ve been during Covid-19.

I agree that that sounds strange that not one person contracted the virus from your son (or from the same source as your son) particularly someone who lives in the same household as your son. I’m sure families have been able to be successful about isolating, but it really takes constant awareness and effort to avoid sharing germs especially with kids.

So, back to considering why not one person also tested positive. I’ve read where  CDC’s faulty tests that were distributed during the first part of last year. The CDC had turned down the offer for the German test kits that were deemed effective. Likely due to a few egos the CDC said “thanks but no thanks” we’ll make our own which was a hold up in the testing fiasco. So when they came out with their own testing kits they came up with a bunch of faulty tests. Go figure… huge egos tend to mess things up. Maybe your son had one of these faulty tests if that was the time period? Yes, I’ve read exactly what you have that a lot of the test kits could not determine one coronavirus from another, and because most people have had at least one coronavirus, if not multiple over their lifetimes, they weren’t being distinguished. Lovely. Another possibility would be an intentional human error of marking a negative Covid result a positive, but I’ll leave that alone as that occurred in nursing home facilities, hospitals, other medical facilities, that received federal funds for Covid patients. More money influencing  department heads and staff to gain free funding.


----------



## boedicca (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> That's it, right there. It's the idea that if something doesn't work, do it MORE. This idea drives me completely batshit.
> 
> Same deal with masks. The masks didn't work to stop the spread? That means more, More, MORE people should wear them, and everywhere!
> 
> There is something so fundamentally wrong with this concept, that whatever doesn't work you should do bigger and more ---- it's sure not the way to play video games. After getting killed by the monsters XX times, the trick I've learned is TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT.



The Ruling Elites aren't concerned with being effective or making sense.  They just want to grab and keep more power.  Hence, the biggest Gaslighting Campaign in history is underway.

The standard to give up their power is now Zero Covid for all time, which, of course, is impossible.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

boedicca said:


> The Ruling Elites aren't concerned with being effective or making sense.  They just want to grab and keep more power.  Hence, the biggest Gaslighting Campaign in history is underweigh.
> 
> The standard to give up their power is now Zero Covid for all time, which, of course, is impossible.


viruses don't die. Immunity is the only way one won't get sick, based on antibodies.  That's all we got.  This vaccine shit is just that, shit.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 2, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated super spreaders are dying.  They are getting covid, they are getting delta.  They are DYING.


Vaxxed people can and do spread it but where are you getting this crap about them dying from. ? A few have, but the vast majority of hospitalizations and death have been among the unvaxxed. If you are going post shit like this you need to provide a source


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 2, 2021)

jc456 said:


> here, reported in Chicago on local news:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So what?  . We know this. The virus has mutated. What the fuck is your point. Those peopleare getting infected but few are getting seriously sick because of the vaxx.


----------



## boedicca (Aug 2, 2021)

jc456 said:


> viruses don't die.



Of course they don't.   But the Progs don't follow real science.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> A few have, but the vast majority of hospitalizations and death have been among the unvaxxed.


you have no fking idea.  That's all bullshit right there bubba.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 2, 2021)

jc456 said:


> you have no fking idea.  That's all bullshit right there bubba.


Prove it or shut the fuck up!


----------



## LibertyKid (Aug 2, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> So what?  . We know this. The virus has mutated. What the fuck is your point. Those peopleare getting infected but few are getting seriously sick because of the vaxx.


Just like the flu.


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Aug 2, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> I’m sure that’s how it seems when you’re incompetent in understanding the world around you. The right struggles bigly with this.


I’m quoting CNN. Take it up with them


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Aug 2, 2021)

evenflow1969 said:


> Yep it's the demo rats fault that the desease mutated before it was stoped. Had nothing to do with idiots calling it a hoax, not wearing masks, giving millions of opportunities to mutate by not stipping it quick enough. Back in the day the shit was stamped out inside a month when they quarantined quickly and posted gun men around towns infected. Go with that short bus.


Sorry, I don’t remember back in the day people being locked up inside of their homes with the military guarding the doors.

I know that’s the world you wished we live in , but we’re not there yet.

Move to a country in Europe or Australia if you want to live in a totalitarian society.

Or just wait a few more weeks here


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 2, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> Just like the flu.


Bullshit Kid Where the fuck did you come from? The moron delegation is out of room here


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 2, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> I’m quoting CNN. Take it up with them


Yes “vaccination alone will not stop spread of variants” - CNN So what. What is your point? If is to not get vaxxed that is stupid as stupid gets


----------



## LibertyKid (Aug 2, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Bullshit Kid Where the fuck did you come from? The moron delegation is out of room here


Covid is a upper respiratory virus like the flu.
Flu mutates and has different strains... that's why the flu vaccine can or cannot be affective as the medical professionals have to try and determine which strain will be the most prevalent each year.  For Covid to mutate is not a scientific surprise.


----------



## HappyJoy (Aug 2, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> View attachment 519710


That was the first thing I would have posted in reply. The entire document is about how vaccines work and Jimbo posts one slide out of context. What a deceitful troll.


----------



## kaz (Aug 2, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> That was the first thing I would have posted in reply. The entire document is about how vaccines work and Jimbo posts one slide out of context. What a deceitful troll.



Yes, the vaccines work.  Have you thanked Trump?


----------



## evenflow1969 (Aug 2, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> Sorry, I don’t remember back in the day people being locked up inside of their homes with the military guarding the doors.
> 
> I know that’s the world you wished we live in , but we’re not there yet.
> 
> ...


Unles you were over one hundred years old you would not remember it. The last time it was done was in 1918, how ever that time it back fired on us. To many people fought the quarantine , came in contact with army troops and spread it to them. In large part due to political campaigns just like republicas are running today causing unrest. How ever in the old west small pox quarantines were effective because the population actually listened. After the quarantins were over they also burnt items touched by the infected.


----------



## HappyJoy (Aug 2, 2021)

kaz said:


> Yes, the vaccines work.  Have you thanked Trump?



As a matter of fact, no. Since they would have been around with or without him and at least we wouldn't have a new generation of zombie anti-vaxxers.

Is he living rent free in your head or something, Mr. TDS?


----------



## kaz (Aug 2, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> As a matter of fact, no. Since they would have been around with or without him and at least we wouldn't have a new generation of zombie anti-vaxxers.
> 
> Is he living rent free in your head or something, Mr. TDS?



Wow, you don't remember last year?  How much drugs do you do?

No one said Trump created the vaccine, but he invested in it and got them approved in less than a year.

You didn't know that?  Really?


----------



## HappyJoy (Aug 2, 2021)

kaz said:


> Wow, you don't remember last year?  How much drugs do you do?
> 
> No one said Trump created the vaccine, but he invested in it and got them approved in less than a year.
> 
> You didn't know that?  Really?


Yeah, I remember last year, it was a clusterfuck.

The vaccines would have the same approval status with or without the former guy.


----------



## kaz (Aug 2, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> Yeah, I remember last year, it was a clusterfuck.
> 
> The vaccines would have the same approval status with or without the former guy.



Democrats would have bypassed government bureaucracy, now that's funny.   

You have reached new levels in sheepdom ...


----------



## HappyJoy (Aug 2, 2021)

kaz said:


> Democrats would have bypassed government bureaucracy, now that's funny.
> 
> You have reached new levels in sheepdom ...


Yes, I can't think of anyone who was against the emergency approval for the vaccines except those wingnuts everywhere including on this board who seem to want to imply how they aren't safe. 

Isn't it weird that it's the liberals on this board who are the ones that don't have any real issues to the approval status of the vaccines?

You guys can't have it both ways.


----------



## kaz (Aug 2, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> Yes, I can't think of anyone who was against the emergency approval for the vaccines except those wingnuts everywhere including on this board who seem to want to imply how they aren't safe.
> 
> Isn't it weird that it's the liberals on this board who are the ones that don't have any real issues to the approval status of the vaccines?
> 
> You guys can't have it both ways.



You need to start paying attention to what's going on around you


----------



## Lesh (Aug 2, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> And since these mRNA vaccines are not FDA approved, they are illegal to mandate.


Pay attention to NOTHING this clown says . He wants people to die.

Nothing he says so authoritatively has any basis in science or medicine


----------



## theHawk (Aug 2, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Newsflash.
> 
> ALL people can spread the virus. Vaccinated people less so.
> 
> Get vaccinated.


How about fuck off.  Some of us would rather get the WuFlu and develop actual immunity than that dangerous and ineffective mRNA bullshit.


----------



## Lesh (Aug 2, 2021)

kaz said:


> Wow, you don't remember last year?  How much drugs do you do?
> 
> No one said Trump created the vaccine, but he invested in it and got them approved in less than a year.
> 
> You didn't know that?  Really?


Great. Give Trump the credit and get the vaccine


----------



## Lesh (Aug 2, 2021)

theHawk said:


> How about fuck off.  Some of us would rather get the WuFlu and develop actual immunity than that dangerous and ineffective mRNA bullshit.


And I'd be happy to dance on your grave


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> You may want to wait a couple weeks before you call names --- hospitalization is a lagging indicator, or has been, though now Reuters is saying sicker quicker with Delta, so we'll find out if that's true, that vaccinated people are landing in the ICU. I hope not, but hope is not a fact.


Hospitalizations are a lagging indicator for the unvaccinated,fool.


----------



## pknopp (Aug 2, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> It imagine it makes a difference to those who can’t find an available ICU bed when needed and the those who must staff them 24/7.



 How? As long as you wear your mask.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Aug 2, 2021)

Best result is to get the vaccine which actually diminishes the severity of COVID and then get the virus and get the natural antibodies.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 2, 2021)

ClaireH said:


> I’ll go one even farther….the fact that anyone is even promoting the current vaccines when they know it’s not effective against Delta variant is total lunacy. If one were to subscribe to the theory that the Delta virus is in fact a variant, and was not even known at the time of the development of the current vaccines, it’s not “covered”. What is it now 80% of people in the United States are being exposed to Delta not the former? Anyone who says people need to rush out and get an already outdated vaccine right now, with great risks for many, when the Delta is the primary spreader really needs to rethink that idea. Save your breath about it’s been proven to reduce symptoms, as I am questioning that currently. That’s probably as provable as the media’s/governmental falsehood that multitudes of people are out spreading the virus who are asymptomatic….. which is a total lie. Like I didn’t have to question enough already.


The vaccines are absolutely effective. 
please stop.


----------



## pknopp (Aug 2, 2021)

kaz said:


> You thank Trump for the vaccine every day, don't you?   I do too



 I thought the argument is that it doesn't work? I see that all the time. Are they all wrong?


----------



## theHawk (Aug 2, 2021)

Lesh said:


> And I'd be happy to dance on your grave


Not likely here are the numbers in AZ:


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Aug 2, 2021)

evenflow1969 said:


> Unles you were over one hundred years old you would not remember it. The last time it was done was in 1918, how ever that time it back fired on us. To many people fought the quarantine , came in contact with army troops and spread it to them. In large part due to political campaigns just like republicas are running today causing unrest. How ever in the old west small pox quarantines were effective because the population actually listened. After the quarantins were over they also burnt items touched by the infected.


Never happened.
And if it did, you admit it didn’t work

I’m taking it that you must be at least 110 years old to remember that


----------



## jc456 (Aug 2, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Yes “vaccination alone will not stop spread of variants” - CNN So what. What is your point? If is to not get vaxxed that is stupid as stupid gets


why?


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Aug 2, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Yes “vaccination alone will not stop spread of variants” - CNN So what. What is your point? If is to not get vaxxed that is stupid as stupid gets


My point is that people tell me to get vaxxed so they can return to normal.

What is the point of getting vaxxed if it doesn’t stop the spread???

I thought the whole memo from the very begging was ‘to stop the spread’.

You are not returning to normal until the Marxist Globalist Tyrants are removed from power.

But you worship them, so you will never return to normal. Nor do I think you want to. You enjoy this

BTW you never explained why “if is not get vaxxed that is stupid as stupid gets”

actually I’m not sure what you’re even trying to say, it sounded like a 1st grader trying to write their first sentence.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 2, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Vaxxed people can and do spread it but where are you getting this crap about them dying from. ? A few have, but the vast majority of hospitalizations and death have been among the unvaxxed. If you are going post shit like this you need to provide a source


Which specific statement do you dispute?


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 2, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Yes “vaccination alone will not stop spread of variants” - CNN So what. What is your point? If is to not get vaxxed that is stupid as stupid gets


Vaccinated people are dying.  They are getting covid, they are getting delta.  They are fucking dying.


----------



## BS Filter (Aug 2, 2021)

These are the people saying President Trump was incompetent.  Lol.


----------



## BULLDOG (Aug 2, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> The Polio vaccine is FDA approved, these mRNA vaccines are not.


Polio vaccine was not approved when it started being used, but it had been successful in other countries.


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Aug 2, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> Polio vaccine was not approved when it started being used, but it had been successful in other countries.


That was also before Marxist globalists controlled big pharma, the MSM, and 90% of the government

Polio also wasn’t invented in a lab, funded by the government


----------



## sartre play (Aug 2, 2021)

As science became instantly politicized there was no getting a clear concise look at the facts. Everything seems strained through a party view point.


----------



## HappyJoy (Aug 2, 2021)

kaz said:


> You need to start paying attention to what's going on around you


I keep forgetting to pay attention to the hallucinations of the paranoid.


----------



## evenflow1969 (Aug 2, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> Never happened.
> And if it did, you admit it didn’t work
> 
> I’m taking it that you must be at least 110 years old to remember that


No it's in history books short bus. Read every once in a while.


----------



## Lesh (Aug 2, 2021)

evenflow1969 said:


> No it's in history books short bus. Read every once in a while.


He watches Q videos


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 2, 2021)

jc456 said:


> why?


If you have to ask, well.....you are just that stupid


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 2, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated people are dying.  They are getting covid, they are getting delta.  They are fucking dying.


You are a fucking moron that will believe any bullshilt that is spoon fed to you . Where is the data??


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> Not only are thousands of vaccinated people already dead from the vaccine, but the number who will die from the vaccine in the future is totally unknown.
> It could be the vaccine will kill all those vaccinated.
> We don't know.
> ...


There does seem to be something to this.  A lot of diseases kill by the over-excited immune reaction to them.


----------



## Who_Me? (Aug 2, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated people are dying.  They are dying from the jab, they are dying from delta, they are dying from covid.  Vaccinated people are DYING.





Buried the needle again on the Crock-o-meter


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 2, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> My point is that people tell me to get vaxxed so they can return to normal.
> 
> What is the point of getting vaxxed if it doesn’t stop the spread???
> 
> ...


What the hell are you rambling on about. The vax is one tool to stop the spread. It will not do it alone but without it the disease to  flourish. This who Marxist, Globalist Tyrant stuff is just hysterical Gish Gallop crap. If I have to explain why not getting vaxxed is stupid, you are too stupid to understand any answere that I give you


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 2, 2021)

Circe said:


> There does seem to be something to this.  A lot of diseases kill by the over-excited immune reaction to them.


There is nothing to it. That is just stupid. The disease can cause a extreme immune response, not the vax.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 2, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Which specific statement do you dispute?


Your implication  that a lot of vaccinated people are dying, and dying from the vax.. And while they do spred the virus, they do not spread any more than unvaxxed people and they rarely get sick which you dihonestly fail to mention.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 2, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Your implication  that a lot of vaccinated people are dying, and dying from the vax.. And while they do spred the virus, they do not spread any more than unvaxxed people and they rarely get sick which you dihonestly fail to mention.


So you do not dispute any specific statement that I have made.


----------



## Circe (Aug 2, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> There is nothing to it. That is just stupid. The disease can cause a extreme immune response, not the vax.


Rigby didn't say the VACCINE caused an extreme immune response --- hopefully it never does. The disease does, however, and that's how it kills.


----------



## ScorpioRising007 (Aug 3, 2021)

The vaccine seems to work for me and my wife. I got my 2nd dose back in January. Since then we have been maskless to many crowded outdoor concerts/ fairs/ parades. We have been maskless to many crowded indoor bars, clubs, large indoor family gatherings, crowded indoor pools/ outdoor beaches, standing in long lines at Great America, etc. My wife and I have on many occasions found out later we were in close contact with someone who had COVID. I have been in close contact at my job on many occasions with those who have COVID. I have not gotten COVID once yet to this date.

My job in healthcare requires me to test weekly for COVID. Every single week since January when got the vaccine I have always tested negative and I have not once gotten sick. Either it is the vaccine or I just am lucky with a really good immune system


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 3, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated people are dying.  They are getting covid, they are getting delta.  They are fucking dying.


The unvaccinated are getting covid and dying more.  Getting vaccinated is safer than not getting vaccinated.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Aug 3, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> The unvaccinated are getting covid and dying more.  Getting vaccinated is safer than not getting vaccinated.



We'll see if it lasts. It did not in some places.


----------



## Lesh (Aug 3, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> We'll see if it lasts. It did not in some places.


Places where too many people did not get vaccinated


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 3, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> We'll see if it lasts. It did not in some places.


As the delta variant makes a deadly sweep through unvaccinated communities, renewing calls for masks and vaccine mandates, health experts say that rare “breakthrough infections” among vaccinated people are not a sign that vaccines are failing. Instead, they are a warning of how vaccine holdouts can endanger even their inoculated neighbors.








						Coronavirus: Tracking the global outbreak
					

Key maps and charts explaining how the respiratory virus has spread around the world and how it is being dealt with.




					www.bbc.com


----------



## SweetSue92 (Aug 3, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> As the delta variant makes a deadly sweep through unvaccinated communities, renewing calls for masks and vaccine mandates, health experts say that rare “breakthrough infections” among vaccinated people are not a sign that vaccines are failing. Instead, they are a warning of how vaccine holdouts can endanger even their inoculated neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That made me laugh out loud. The vaccines are failing and somehow the "experts say" that's the fault of the unvaccinated. 

Sure sure. Up is down, black is white, dark is light, and sure


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 3, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> That made me laugh out loud. The vaccines are failing and somehow the "experts say" that's the fault of the unvaccinated.
> 
> Sure sure. Up is down, black is white, dark is light, and sure


Mounting research suggests the variants are placing greater strain on the vaccines. When people are infected with the delta variant, Huffman said they produce a thousand times greater viral load than seen from the original COVID-19 strain. That means the delta variant is more efficient at spreading and every time an infected person coughs, sneezes or speaks, they potentially release much more of the virus — and opportunities to get someone else sick — than earlier in the pandemic.









						Breakthrough COVID infections show 'the unvaccinated are now putting the vaccinated at risk'
					

Occasional breakthroughs are expected with any vaccine, but more transmissible variants spread among so many unvaccinated people in the United States has placed greater strain on highly effective and safe COVID-19 vaccines.




					www.pbs.org


----------



## SweetSue92 (Aug 3, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Mounting research suggests the variants are placing greater strain on the vaccines. When people are infected with the delta variant, Huffman said they produce a thousand times greater viral load than seen from the original COVID-19 strain. That means the delta variant is more efficient at spreading and every time an infected person coughs, sneezes or speaks, they potentially release much more of the virus — and opportunities to get someone else sick — than earlier in the pandemic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



"Leaky" vaccines themselves produce variants. Did you know that?


----------



## j-mac (Aug 3, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> No no no no no no no - They have the right to be everywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do your doctors wear bandanas?


----------



## Care4all (Aug 3, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> That made me laugh out loud. The vaccines are failing and somehow the "experts say" that's the fault of the unvaccinated.
> 
> Sure sure. Up is down, black is white, dark is light, and sure


If the unvaccinated, were vaccinated, Delta Covid of the unvaccinated people in hospitals would not be filled to the rim or over flowing with Covid patients in our Hospitals or ICU units in the unvaccinated hot spot areas.

Our nurses and doctors and healthcare workers would not be faced with watching these people die slowly without family by their sides, would not be pushed to the brink on hours worked, on hospital beds, on PPE, on hospital equipment....and mental stress.

And most importantly, hospitals could actually save the lives of other sick people that needed that hospital bed and those doctor's hands, and service the surrounding community for their healthcare needs, as they were designed to do.

The unvaccinated catching covid and getting really sick, are causing this to happen....  NOT the vaccinated.....  When the vaccinated catch it and spread it, they don't end up hospitalized like the unvaccinated.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Aug 3, 2021)

Care4all said:


> If the unvaccinated, were vaccinated, Delta Covid of the unvaccinated people in hospitals would not be filled to the rim or over flowing with Covid patients in our Hospitals or ICU units in the unvaccinated hot spot areas.
> 
> Our nurses and doctors and healthcare workers would not be faced with watching these people die slowly without family by their sides, would not be pushed to the brink on hours worked, on hospital beds, on PPE, on hospital equipment....and mental stress.
> 
> ...



Okay so it seems you have given up on vaccines having any impact on transmission or contraction of the virus. This is good.

If things pan out here in the US as they did in Israel and the UK, soon enough the difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in severe cases and deaths will be small too and might even tip in favor of the unvaxxed. We shall see.


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Aug 3, 2021)

Toro said:


> Make sure you totally distrust everything experts say.
> 
> Darwin will take care of the rest.



We never get to see the "experts" models, research, abstracts yet we're supposed to take the govt, media, pharma's word for it without questioning anything?  Dont think so.


----------



## pknopp (Aug 3, 2021)

So is the risk of a pandemic still worth doing the research?


----------



## LibertyKid (Aug 3, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> You are a fucking moron that will believe any bullshilt that is spoon fed to you . Where is the data??


There have been breakthrough infections and some deaths of the vaccinated people.  Plenty of articles out there to find that don't come from Fox or other right wing news outlets.  New reports are now saying that vaccinated people are just likely to carry the same viral load as an unvaccinated person and transmit the virus.  That is why all the new mask mandates are coming from the CDC.


----------



## LibertyKid (Aug 3, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Your implication  that a lot of vaccinated people are dying, and dying from the vax.. And while they do spred the virus, they do not spread any more than unvaxxed people and they rarely get sick which you dihonestly fail to mention.











						Study: Vaccinated people can carry as much virus as others
					

In another dispiriting setback for the nation’s efforts to stamp out the coronavirus, scientists who studied a big COVID-19 outbreak in Massachusetts concluded that vaccinated people who got so-called breakthrough infections carried about the same amount of the coronavirus as those who did not...




					apnews.com
				




This is one of the many articles you can find.  instead of being so militant and angry, (not that you're wrong) try some reasonable discourse.


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> So is the risk of a pandemic still worth doing the research?



They warned through their simulation, event 201.  They knew what was going to happen and wanted it to happen.  









						Event 201, a pandemic exercise to illustrate preparedness efforts
					

The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security in partnership with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation hosted Event 201.




					centerforhealthsecurity.org
				




They have another planned shortly.










						The SPARS Pandemic 2025-2028: A Futuristic Scenario | Article
					

Effective communication about medical countermeasures is often critical in emergency situations. Such communication, however, does not just happen.




					www.centerforhealthsecurity.org


----------



## jc456 (Aug 3, 2021)

Who_Me? said:


> View attachment 520668
> Buried the needle again on the Crock-o-meter


here, in case you didn't read my previous post









						Study: Vaccinated people can carry as much virus as others
					

In another dispiriting setback for the nation’s efforts to stamp out the coronavirus, scientists who studied a big COVID-19 outbreak in Massachusetts concluded that vaccinated people who got so-cal…




					wgntv.com
				




_The outbreak in Provincetown — a seaside tourist spot on Cape Cod in the county with Massachusetts’ highest vaccination rate — has so far included more than 900 cases. About three-quarters of them were people who were fully vaccinated._


----------



## jc456 (Aug 3, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> Study: Vaccinated people can carry as much virus as others
> 
> 
> In another dispiriting setback for the nation’s efforts to stamp out the coronavirus, scientists who studied a big COVID-19 outbreak in Massachusetts concluded that vaccinated people who got so-called breakthrough infections carried about the same amount of the coronavirus as those who did not...
> ...


naw, Demofks like feeling important shaming people on subjects they know nothing about.


----------



## Blues Man (Aug 3, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> Keep repeating that until maybe you can believe it


Until you can post more reliable numbers I will

Didn't you say you were going to get stats for every town in every state?

Still waiting.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Aug 3, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Until you can post more reliable numbers I will
> 
> Didn't you say you were going to get stats for every town in every state?
> 
> Still waiting.



No that was a hypothetical. It's sad that you still believe the numbers coming out of Propaganda Central, but you do you


----------



## kaz (Aug 3, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Great. Give Trump the credit and get the vaccine



Already did both.

Proving again that Democrats know you're liars, huh Tiger?

LOL, remember how you thought people go inside in Florida because it's hotter inside?  Or the 600K vaccinated people you said died in Florida?  Then there's how you don't know that Florida is fucking hot in the summer.

ODD is a strange thing.    You will literally say ANYTHING to serve your Democrat party masters


----------



## Blues Man (Aug 3, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> No that was a hypothetical. It's sad that you still believe the numbers coming out of Propaganda Central, but you do you


And you have no other numbers to refute them.

So until you can provide them I have to go with the research.

So go ahead and get the data you need to refute the CDC.


----------



## kaz (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> I thought the argument is that it doesn't work? I see that all the time. Are they all wrong?



Is that why you say the vaccine doesn't work?   You don't want to give credit for it to Trump for enabling it's rapid creation?    How many people would you kill to Get Trump?


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 3, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> That was also before Marxist globalists controlled big pharma, the MSM, and 90% of the government
> 
> Polio also wasn’t invented in a lab, funded by the government


Wow… y’all are just a bunch of losers to let the Marxists own your dumb asses like that. You deserve to be lied to and marginalized.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 3, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> That made me laugh out loud. The vaccines are failing and somehow the "experts say" that's the fault of the unvaccinated.
> 
> Sure sure. Up is down, black is white, dark is light, and sure


Sure and to you, “retard” is a word that applies to others.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 3, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Until you can post more reliable numbers I will
> 
> Didn't you say you were going to get stats for every town in every state?
> 
> Still waiting.


they won't release them because..................................they're al fake.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 3, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Wow… y’all are just a bunch of losers to let the Marxists own your dumb asses like that. You deserve to be lied to and marginalized.


you have that flipped, but not unusual for you.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 3, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Sure and to you, “retard” is a word that applies to others.


here you go.









						Study: Vaccinated people can carry as much virus as others
					

In another dispiriting setback for the nation’s efforts to stamp out the coronavirus, scientists who studied a big COVID-19 outbreak in Massachusetts concluded that vaccinated people who got so-cal…




					wgntv.com
				



_The outbreak in Provincetown — a seaside tourist spot on Cape Cod in the county with Massachusetts’ highest vaccination rate — has so far included more than 900 cases. About three-quarters of them were people who were fully vaccinated._

For idiots like you that don't do math, three quarters is most!!!!

but hey, you don't care cause facts are for winners.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 3, 2021)

jc456 said:


> here you go.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So much for "natural herd immunity" if even vaccinations are being overcome.  Why not maskup?


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Aug 3, 2021)

Lol, ah yes, the moving target, was 60, now up to 90 percent.  These people are mentally sick in the head.

"Since the delta variant is so much more contagious, we'll need to see more people vaccinated to get this pandemic under control — in the range of 85%-90% of the population."









						All 50 states report rising vaccination rates as COVID infections surge, data shows
					

While states like Missouri end a second month enduring a surge in COVID-19 cases as the more contagious delta variant spreads, public health officials across the country are hearing the same story from an increasing number of people getting the vaccine: someone they know recently caught the...




					www.yahoo.com


----------



## jc456 (Aug 3, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> So much for "natural herd immunity" if even vaccinations are being overcome.  Why not maskup?


cause masks can't stop a virus.  It's well known.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 3, 2021)

LordBrownTrout said:


> "Since the delta variant is so much more contagious, we'll need to see more people vaccinated to get this pandemic under control — in the range of 85%-90% of the population."


that isn't logical, the vaccines aren't for the variants.  might as well inject water.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Aug 3, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> And you have no other numbers to refute them.
> 
> So until you can provide them I have to go with the research.
> 
> So go ahead and get the data you need to refute the CDC.



This news is all over.  Hospitalizations are 13% fully vaccinated. That will go up as vaccine efficacy wears off, I'm sure. But, as I have said, the vaccines are still a good bet to protect THE VACCINATED against severe infection. For now.

_While still making up just three percent of all COVID-19 infections in the state since Jan. 1, the so-called “breakthrough cases,” or infections among people previously fully vaccinated, were 20 percent of all identified cases in the first three weeks of July in the state.

Those three weeks accounted for more than 35 percent of the breakthrough cases recorded in the state since the start of the year. 

“There's increasing evidence that despite being vaccinated, you can still spread the virus, even though you yourself might not have symptoms, and so you might spread it to others who are unvaccinated, who could then have very severe symptoms,” Polis said, urging Coloradans to get vaccinated. “I know we're all very tired of this virus. We're really in the final phases. Most importantly, we have a highly effective tool to combat it.”

State epidemiologist Dr. Rachel Herlihy said Colorado documented 2,074 cases, 92 hospitalizations and three deaths among fully vaccinated residents from July 1 to July 24. The unvaccinated accounted for 80 percent of cases, 87 percent of hospitalizations and 92 percent of deaths. 









						Breakthrough COVID Cases Among Those Fully Vaccinated Are Rising In Colorado
					

While still making up just three percent of all COVID-19 infections in the state since Jan. 1, the so-called “breakthrough cases,” or infections among people previously fully vaccinated, were 20 percent of all identified cases in the first three weeks of July in the state.



					www.cpr.org
				



_


----------



## SweetSue92 (Aug 3, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Sure and to you, “retard” is a word that applies to others.



Funny how all the tolerant liberals love the slurs


----------



## jc456 (Aug 3, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> This news is all over.  Hospitalizations are 13% fully vaccinated. That will go up as vaccine efficacy wears off, I'm sure. But, as I have said, the vaccines are still a good bet to protect THE VACCINATED against severe infection. For now.
> 
> _While still making up just three percent of all COVID-19 infections in the state since Jan. 1, the so-called “breakthrough cases,” or infections among people previously fully vaccinated, were 20 percent of all identified cases in the first three weeks of July in the state.
> 
> ...


accept:









						Study: Vaccinated people can carry as much virus as others
					

In another dispiriting setback for the nation’s efforts to stamp out the coronavirus, scientists who studied a big COVID-19 outbreak in Massachusetts concluded that vaccinated people who got so-cal…




					wgntv.com
				



_The outbreak in Provincetown — a seaside tourist spot on Cape Cod in the county with Massachusetts’ highest vaccination rate — has so far included more than 900 cases. About three-quarters of them were people who were fully vaccinated._

2/3rd's, is most are vaccinated. Your post is Wrong, Wrong, Wrong!!!!!!!!


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Aug 3, 2021)

jc456 said:


> that isn't logical, the vaccines aren't for the variants.  might as well inject water.



Oh I agree.


----------



## Blues Man (Aug 3, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> This news is all over.  Hospitalizations are 13% fully vaccinated. That will go up as vaccine efficacy wears off, I'm sure. But, as I have said, the vaccines are still a good bet to protect THE VACCINATED against severe infection. For now.
> 
> _While still making up just three percent of all COVID-19 infections in the state since Jan. 1, the so-called “breakthrough cases,” or infections among people previously fully vaccinated, were 20 percent of all identified cases in the first three weeks of July in the state.
> 
> ...


No you have cheery picked numbers from select areas that happen to be the hardest hit.

Your stats aren't any good because you do not have the sample size needed.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 3, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> Study: Vaccinated people can carry as much virus as others
> 
> 
> In another dispiriting setback for the nation’s efforts to stamp out the coronavirus, scientists who studied a big COVID-19 outbreak in Massachusetts concluded that vaccinated people who got so-called breakthrough infections carried about the same amount of the coronavirus as those who did not...
> ...


Listen Kid. I am not angrt. But I am frustrated. You and certin other seem to have a communications problem. You can't seem to grasp the fact that I am not disputing the reality that vacced people are carrying a high viral load.

What I am disputing is the moronic contention that large numbers of them are getting sick and dying. Got that now?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 3, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Listen Kid. I am not angrt. But I am frustrated. You and certin other seem to have a communications problem. You can't seem to grasp the fact that I am not disputing the reality that vacced people are carrying a high viral load.
> 
> What I am disputing is the moronic contention that large numbers of them are getting sick and dying. Got that now?


sure, cause you can't prove any of it.  None of us can.  Those figures are tucked under rugs where you can't get to.  Call a hospital and ask how many ICU beds are open.  They won't talk to you!!! they're all silent, money money money boi.


----------



## pknopp (Aug 3, 2021)

kaz said:


> Is that why you say the vaccine doesn't work?   You don't want to give credit for it to Trump for enabling it's rapid creation?    How many people would you kill to Get Trump?



 I didn't say it didn't work. Trump supporters do.


----------



## Care4all (Aug 3, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> Okay so it seems you have given up on vaccines having any impact on transmission or contraction of the virus. This is good.
> 
> If things pan out here in the US as they did in Israel and the UK, soon enough the difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in severe cases and deaths will be small too and might even tip in favor of the unvaxxed. We shall see.


Anything is possible....COVID desperately wants to win.... and defeat us, in the USA and world.... I'm not ready to wave the white flag and give up the fight against it, yet.

I'm an "If you don't succeed, try, try, again!" type of gal....


----------



## kaz (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> I didn't say it didn't work. Trump supporters do.



Um ... what?

It's Democrats making vaccinated people wear masks you stupid fuck, not Republicans.  What is wrong with you?  Seriously?  Dropped on your head 67 times as a baby?  Then there's that it's TRUMP'S VACCINE.

No Democrat propaganda is too absurd for you to just lap up and believe, is it?


----------



## pknopp (Aug 3, 2021)

kaz said:


> Um ... what?
> 
> It's Democrats making vaccinated people wear masks you stupid fuck, not Republicans.  What is wrong with you?  Seriously?  Dropped on your head 67 times as a baby?  Then there's that it's TRUMP'S VACCINE.
> 
> No Democrat propaganda is too absurd for you to just lap up and believe, is it?



 As usual you have no idea what you are ranting over.


----------



## kaz (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> As usual you have no idea what you are ranting over.



So it's Republicans making vaccinated people wear masks.  Or in your native language, baa, baa, baa ... Got it


----------



## Mac1958 (Aug 3, 2021)

If you don't want to get vaccinated, don't get vaccinated.  We'll just have do this the hard way, a combination of vaccines and infections to create a herd immunity.

It would be* really nice *if you could make a _*little effort*_ to not infect _*others*_.  But I do know that any inconvenience is a big 'ol commie attack on your "freedom" and "liberty", so I won't hold my breath.

Fuck it.  Good luck.


----------



## pknopp (Aug 3, 2021)

kaz said:


> So it's Republicans making vaccinated people wear masks.  Or in your native language, baa, baa, baa ... Got it



 Well yes, it was. My Republican governor made us wear masks. Ohio's Republican governor made them wear masks.


----------



## Cellblock2429 (Aug 3, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> View attachment 519169
> wow
> 
> 
> ...


/—-/ Here come the Vax Police. 
NEW YORK, Aug 3 (Reuters) - New York City will require proof of vaccination for indoor activities including restaurants, gyms and performances, Mayor Bill de Blasio said on Tuesday.

The announcement is the latest in a string of initiatives aimed at encouraging more residents to get vaccinated as the Delta variant spreads in the nation's most populous city.


----------



## kaz (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Well yes, it was. My Republican governor made us wear masks. Ohio's Republican governor made them wear masks.



Damn Republicans, making vaccinated people wear masks.  No wonder you're upset at Republicans.  Democrats don't make vaccinated people wear masks, they just don't, huh?


----------



## SweetSue92 (Aug 3, 2021)

Cellblock2429 said:


> /—-/ Here come the Vax Police.
> NEW YORK, Aug 3 (Reuters) - New York City will require proof of vaccination for indoor activities including restaurants, gyms and performances, Mayor Bill de Blasio said on Tuesday.
> 
> The announcement is the latest in a string of initiatives aimed at encouraging more residents to get vaccinated as the Delta variant spreads in the nation's most populous city.



Great move, DeBlasio. High % of minorities unvaxxed. They will love this. Great look for the Dems going into the mid-terms. Maybe other Democrats should follow!!


----------



## pknopp (Aug 3, 2021)

kaz said:


> Damn Republicans, making vaccinated people wear masks.  No wonder you're upset at Republicans.  Democrats don't make vaccinated people wear masks, they just don't, huh?



 You are going to cause yourself a stroke.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 3, 2021)

jc456 said:


> cause masks can't stop a virus.  It's well known.


It can lessen the spread.  It is well known.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 3, 2021)

Mac1958 said:


> If you don't want to get vaccinated, don't get vaccinated.  We'll just have do this the hard way, a combination of vaccines and infections to create a herd immunity.
> 
> It would be* really nice *if you could make a _*little effort*_ to not infect others.  But I do know that any inconvenience is a commie attack on your "freedom" and "liberty", so I won't hold my breath.
> 
> Fuck it.  Good luck.


They have no problem denying and disparaging refugees at the border.  Are they just immoral practitioners of the abomination of hypocrisy?


----------



## pknopp (Aug 3, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> It can lessen the spread.  It is well known.



 So if being vaccinated doesn't stop you from spreading it but masks do, shouldn't it be up to you whether you get vaccinated or not as long as you wear a mask?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 3, 2021)

Care4all said:


> Anything is possible....COVID desperately wants to win.... and defeat us, in the USA and world.... I'm not ready to wave the white flag and give up the fight against it, yet.
> 
> I'm an "If you don't succeed, try, try, again!" type of gal....


what you fail to grasp is that it's a virus and you can't defeat one of those.  You lose cause you believe you can.  I accept I might catch a cold or flu, I will deal with it.  People die of flu, cold's and pneumonia since I was born at least.  Accept the flu exists and live your life and don't give into a group of losers who wish to destroy all aspects of life for a virus they can't defeat.  Vietnam all over.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 3, 2021)

jc456 said:


> sure, cause you can't prove any of it.  None of us can.  Those figures are tucked under rugs where you can't get to.  Call a hospital and ask how many ICU beds are open.  They won't talk to you!!! they're all silent, money money money boi.


What the fuck are you taling about? We know that most vaxed people who are infected are asymptomatic and very few get seriously sick.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> So if being vaccinated doesn't stop you from spreading it but masks do, shouldn't it be up to you whether you get vaccinated or not as long as you wear a mask?


both are preferred to "double" the chances of lessening the effects of the pathogen.  Your premise assumes a false conclusion.


----------



## schmidlap (Aug 3, 2021)

MinTrut said:


> I think Democrats weaponizing Covid to burn the country down & seize power that they'll lose in 2022 is sexy.


Wow.

So many Republicans scrambling onto the Biden vaccination juggernaut may be a _pheromone_ thing?

*U.S. Rep. Scalise gets COVID vaccine, calls it ‘safe and effective’*

*DeSantis touts vaccine as Delta variant spreads in Florida*

*Arkansas governor, others push vaccine*

*Senator Lindsey Graham tests positive for COVID-19, says "glad I was vaccinated"*

Less than 1% of fully vaccinated people experienced a breakthrough infection, according to a Kaiser Family Foundation analysis of official state data.​​According to the latest data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, less than 0.004% of people who have been fully vaccinated against Covid-19 experienced a breakthrough case resulting in hospitalization, and less than 0.001% have died from the disease. That’s about 6,600 severe breakthrough cases out of more than 163 million fully vaccinated people.​​The KFF analysis shows that breakthrough infections of any kind are also extremely rare.​​About half of states report data on Covid-19 breakthrough cases, and in each of those states, less than 1% of fully vaccinated people had a breakthrough infection, ranging from 0.01% in Connecticut to 0.9% in Oklahoma.​​*More than 90% of cases – and more than 95% of hospitalizations and deaths – have been among unvaccinated people*, according to the KFF analysis. *In most states, more than 98% of cases were among the unvaccinated. *​[Less than 1% of fully vaccinated people experience a breakthrough Covid-19 infection, analysis finds]​​​​​


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair (Aug 3, 2021)

Synthaholic said:


> The moderators are deleting my posts from this thread. They want one-sided arguments. So y'all have fun.


Such sad tragic news. I don't know if I can take it.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> So if being vaccinated doesn't stop you from spreading it but masks do, shouldn't it be up to you whether you get vaccinated or not as long as you wear a mask?


masks don't stop shit. Come on son, learn yourself something.  the Virus is too small.  That isn't what a mask is for.  It's posted in the forum for some time now.  come on man!!!!


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Aug 3, 2021)

boedicca said:


> You really need me to explain how forcing someone to take a vaccine against his will is in violation of the Nuremburg code?   It's pretty self-evident if one has proper reading comprehension skills.  But as you need help:
> 
> _All COVID vaccines emergency authorized by the FDA have not yet been approved and are experimental, as they have undergone no long-term safety trials.  Safety data are being partially collected in real time as adverse events are reported to VAERS.  The tenets of the Nuremberg Code apply here as these vaccines are — by definition — a medical experiment being administered worldwide.
> 
> ...


How about explaining that the Nuremburg Code is NOT a law?


----------



## pknopp (Aug 3, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> both are preferred to "double" the chances of lessening the effects of the pathogen.  Your premise assumes a false conclusion.



 It's NOT my conclusion. It's what we are being told. Don't dismiss this by trying to make it about me. I am discussing what we are being told. That being vaccinated does not stop you from spreading the virus.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair (Aug 3, 2021)

schmidlap said:


> So many Republicans scrambling onto the Biden vaccination juggernaut may be a _pheromone_ thing?


Like the way vermin seem attracted to you?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 3, 2021)

CowboyTed said:


> Meanwhile back at the Rest of the World
> 
> 
> 
> ...


accept:









						Study: Vaccinated people can carry as much virus as others
					

In another dispiriting setback for the nation’s efforts to stamp out the coronavirus, scientists who studied a big COVID-19 outbreak in Massachusetts concluded that vaccinated people who got so-cal…




					wgntv.com
				




_The outbreak in Provincetown — a seaside tourist spot on Cape Cod in the county with Massachusetts’ highest vaccination rate — has so far included more than 900 cases. About three-quarters of them were people who were fully vaccinated._


----------



## pknopp (Aug 3, 2021)

jc456 said:


> masks don't stop shit. Come on son, learn yourself something.  the Virus is too small.  That isn't what a mask is for.  It's posted in the forum for some time now.  come on man!!!!



 Sheesh. Understand that I am asking a question based upon what we are told NOT making a claim or statement.


----------



## Lesh (Aug 3, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> Great move, DeBlasio. High % of minorities unvaxxed. They will love this. Great look for the Dems going into the mid-terms. Maybe other Democrats should follow!!


Those "high numbers of unvaxxed" are idiots on Long Island and Staten Island and Orthodox in Brooklyn...you fucking dope


----------



## LibertyKid (Aug 3, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Listen Kid. I am not angrt. But I am frustrated. You and certin other seem to have a communications problem. You can't seem to grasp the fact that I am not disputing the reality that vacced people are carrying a high viral load.
> 
> What I am disputing is the moronic contention that large numbers of them are getting sick and dying. Got that now?


Okay, then we don't disagree.  

Some thoughts...
From day one we knew Covid's primary victims were elderly and those with high co-morbidities and underlying heath risks.  Today, that hasn't changed.  
The vaccine's primary group that will benefit is those that are considered high risk.
Since the vaccine isn't stopping the spread... Not sure the vaccine does much for the healthy, other than mask even further symptoms.
The healthy can stay un-vaccinated and basically nothing changes for them as the majority will experience nothing from Covid, which we knew from the beginning.  (there maybe a few outliers which the media will absolutely report on but statistically means nothing)
Then as I see it the biggest group to benefit from the vaccination is the same group that was at risk from the onset. Give the vaccination to the elderly and those that are considered high risk.
That's why we are pretty much getting back to square one with masks, unless we find a CURE.  
Which leads me back to the thought that this is another flu.  It will mutate, we will have to think about yearly vaccines, like the flu.  
We can argue for eternity... but the vaccination is not doing anything to curb the spread currently.  The vaccination primarily supports that are high risk while contributing very little to those at low risk.
Masks it is.  

And don't be so angry.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 3, 2021)

jc456 said:


> cause masks can't stop a virus.  It's well known.


danielpalos 









						“If masks don’t work, then why do surgeons wear them?”
					

Based on extensive review and analysis, there is no question in my mind that healthy people should not be wearing surgical or cloth masks.  – BY JIM MEEHAN, MD



					inlandnwreport.com
				




_The CoVID-19 pandemic is about viral transmission. Surgical and cloth masks do nothing to prevent viral transmission. We should all realize by now that face masks have never been shown to prevent or protect against viral transmission. Which is exactly why they have never been recommended for use during the seasonal flu outbreak, epidemics, or previous pandemics._


----------



## schmidlap (Aug 3, 2021)

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> Like the way vermin seem attracted to you?


Whatever attraction I constitute that demands your response is of no relevance.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> It's NOT my conclusion. It's what we are being told. Don't dismiss this by trying to make it about me. I am discussing what we are being told. That being vaccinated does not stop you from spreading the virus.


That is why masks are being recommended.  And, I thought I was responding to JC456.


----------



## schmidlap (Aug 3, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> From day one we knew Covid's primary victims were elderly and those with high co-morbidities and underlying heath risks.  Today, that hasn't changed...


What has changed is that Covid's primary victims, overwhelmingly, are unvaccinated:

*More than 90% of cases – and more than 95% of hospitalizations and deaths – have been among unvaccinated people*, according to the KFF analysis. *In most states, more than 98% of cases were among the unvaccinated.
*
[Less than 1% of fully vaccinated people experience a breakthrough Covid-19 infection, analysis finds]


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 3, 2021)

jc456 said:


> accept:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And you assume what?  How many people were unvaccinated and refusing to wear masks.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 3, 2021)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your fallacy is an undistributed middle.  Many people are asymptomatic and not "healthy" as the good doctor implies. And, some cultures do wear masks when they are sick.  Only right-wingers seem to have a problem with it.


----------



## kaz (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> You are going to cause yourself a stroke.



No, I'm just laughing at you, inane twit


----------



## Care4all (Aug 3, 2021)

jc456 said:


> what you fail to grasp is that it's a virus and you can't defeat one of those.  You lose cause you believe you can.  I accept I might catch a cold or flu, I will deal with it.  People die of flu, cold's and pneumonia since I was born at least.  Accept the flu exists and live your life and don't give into a group of losers who wish to destroy all aspects of life for a virus they can't defeat.  Vietnam all over.


Of course SOME viruses can be defeated, small pox, chicken pox, polio, measles, etc....

Defeating them does not mean they disappear altogether, though nice when they do...like Polio etc.

It means we control and limit the deaths and disease, enough to maintain a healthy healthcare system that is able to treat all the other medical situations as well, with decent proficiency and results.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair (Aug 3, 2021)

schmidlap said:


> Whatever attraction I constitute that demands your response is of no relevance.


And yet, you did respond. As a big fan of polls what do you think of polls that show
American has no confidence, or much less confidence, in Geriatric Joe?

It must give you pause to consider what a waste your life has been.


----------



## Lesh (Aug 3, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> From day one we knew Covid's primary victims were elderly and those with high co-morbidities and underlying heath risks. Today, that hasn't changed.


Wrong.

In Florida the average age of covid hospitalizations has dropped to mid 40s


----------



## Staidhup (Aug 3, 2021)

Apparently we have come a long ways since this all began. The "follow the science" coupled with "we are going to assemble a team of renowned scientist to lead the charge against Wuhan", "get vaccinated and you, repeat, you will not need to wear a mask" mantra for the most part turned out to be nothing more then politics as usual. Sounds a great deal like the script from the 60's when politicians played war games and politics with American Lives. Same game, same crap. Maybe its time for Joe and Nancy to get a taste of their own medicine, shut down the country and bury your head in the sand. On the other hand maybe its time for nature to run its course as it did in 1957 and 1918.


----------



## boedicca (Aug 3, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> How about explaining that the Nuremburg Code is NOT a law?



This is like shooting fish in a barrel.  It's sad that you are so intellectually incurious that you cannot find such information.

The U.S. government based research regulations on the principles of the Nuremburg Code.

What is the historical basis for the current human research regulations, 45 CFR part 46?​The history of contemporary human subjects protections began in 1947 with the Nuremberg Code, developed for the Nuremberg Military Tribunal as standards by which to judge the human experimentation conducted by the Nazis. The Code captures many of what are now taken to be the basic principles governing the ethical conduct of research involving human subjects.

Similar recommendations were made by the World Medical Association in its Declaration of Helsinki: Recommendations Guiding Medical Doctors in Biomedical Research Involving Human Subjects, first adopted in 1964 and subsequently revised many times.

Basic regulations governing the protection of human subjects in research supported or conducted by HHS (then the Department of Health, Education and Welfare) were first published in 1974. In the United States, a series of highly publicized abuses in research led to the enactment of the 1974 National Research Act (Public Law 93-348), which created the National Commission for the Protection of Human Subjects of Biomedical and Behavioral Research. One of the charges to the National Commission was to identify the basic ethical principles that should underlie the conduct of biomedical and behavioral research involving human subjects and to develop guidelines to assure that such research is conducted in accordance with those principles. In 1978, the Commission published “Ethical Principles and Guidelines for the Protection of Human Subjects of Research,” also known as the Belmont Report, named after the Belmont Conference Center where the Commission met when drafting the report. The Belmont Report identifies three fundamental ethical principles for all human subjects research -- respect for persons, beneficence, and justice.

Based on the Belmont Report and other work of the National Commission, HHS revised and expanded its regulations for the protection of human subjects in the late 1970s and early 1980s. The HHS regulations are codified at 45 CFR part 46, subparts A through D. The statutory authority for the HHS regulations derives from 5 U.S.C. 301; 42 U.S.C. 300v-1(b); and 42 U.S.C. 289.

The regulations found at 45 CFR part 46 are based in large part on the Belmont Report and were written to offer basic protections to human subjects involved in both biomedical and behavioral research conducted or supported by HHS. In 1991, 14 other Federal departments and agencies joined HHS in adopting a uniform set of rules for the protection of human subjects, identical to subpart A of 45 CFR part 46 of the HHS regulations. This uniform set of regulations is the Federal Policy for the Protection of Human Subjects, informally known as the “Common Rule.” In 1995 the Central Intelligence Agency was required by Executive Order to comply with all subparts of the HHS regulations.





__





						45 CFR 46 FAQs
					






					www.hhs.gov


----------



## Lesh (Aug 3, 2021)

Look. We had vaccines. Vaccines that WORK. They are safe and effective

They have been widely available for five months and a big chunk of people refused to take them.

At the SAME time the Delta variant started to spread. It is as infectious as measles and chicken pox.

Those unvaccinated people became the fodder to allow that spread.

It's likely that had we achieved herd immunity months ago that the Delta variant would not have been able to spread.

But those folks refused to vaccinate and this is where we are.

This is our new reality. Mask up. Use N95 (yea they suck but they ARE available now) because they protect the wearer more than the surgical masks which primarily protect others FROM the wearer.

I for one will not be attending concerts any more or eating at indoor restaurants. Yea. This sucks

Thanks for being morons.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 3, 2021)

jc456 said:


> here you go.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The vaccines aren’t “failing”, dope. Only your understanding of them is failing.


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Aug 3, 2021)

Lol!!









						Make Unvaccinated People Pay if They Harm Others
					

A proposal: Hold the intentionally unvaccinated liable for any costs if their decisions harm others.




					www.barrons.com


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Aug 3, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Look. We had vaccines. Vaccines that WORK. They are safe and effective
> 
> They have been widely available for five months and a big chunk of people refused to take them.
> 
> ...


'
No one cares what you do.


----------



## HappyJoy (Aug 3, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> Never happened.
> And if it did, you admit it didn’t work



I've never seen somebody back pedal with so few words before.



Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> I’m taking it that you must be at least 110 years old to remember that



You know there is this thing called history where the past is documented and we can read. I mean, most of us can.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 3, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> Funny how all the tolerant liberals love the slurs


I love how they apply so perfectly. Especially to those who spread misleading information either as a result of their own incompetence or malicious intent. Either is dangerous and unhelpful.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 3, 2021)

jc456 said:


> sure, cause you can't prove any of it.  None of us can.  Those figures are tucked under rugs where you can't get to.  Call a hospital and ask how many ICU beds are open.  They won't talk to you!!! they're all silent, money money money boi.


D’OH...
Hospital administrators, doctors and public health officials in hot zones are all over the news giving updates.


----------



## boedicca (Aug 3, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> D’OH...
> Hospital administrators, doctors and public health officials in hot zones are all over the news giving updates.



Not the ones the Prog-Fascists keep censoring and canceling, bub.


----------



## Lesh (Aug 3, 2021)

LordBrownTrout said:


> '
> No one cares what you do.


Fuck off troll


----------



## LibertyKid (Aug 3, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Wrong.
> 
> In Florida the average age of covid hospitalizations has dropped to mid 40s


Are they dying?  Are they on vents?  And do you exactly know their current health status.  40, with co-morbidities is at-risk.


----------



## Lesh (Aug 3, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> Are they dying?  Are they on vents?  And do you exactly know their current health status.  40, with co-morbidities is at-risk.


Yes. In fact the last time Florida posted stats...deaths had risen to over 100 in a single day


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> It's NOT my conclusion. It's what we are being told. Don't dismiss this by trying to make it about me. I am discussing what we are being told. That being vaccinated does not stop you from spreading the virus.


Some of the vaccinated may spread the virus. This is what you’re missing. As only a small number have been found to do so. All the more reason to mask up and vaccinate. The goal is to greatly reduce the likelihood of serious illness or death for all. Walking around with no protection at all is not only foolish but it does nothing to get our society protected as a whole.


----------



## LibertyKid (Aug 3, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Yes. In fact the last time Florida posted stats...deaths had risen to over 100 in a single day


Okay, what are the actual health records of those that have died.  

So my point is to not diminish deaths.  But what were the co-morbidities of those that are dying?  Were there any underlying health risks?  Saying that 40 somethings have died doesn't change anything that we already knew if they the majority were at high risk.  Now if they were 40 and were very healthy with no high risks co-morbidities than we have a game changer.  Unfortunately, we're probably not going to know full health of those that pass or hospitalized.  

Why?  First, HIPPA prevents disclosing personal health history.  Second, the media is not going to divulge, even if they knew the entire health history of each person because it changes the narrative.  

All I'm saying is that a headline and news articles are most of the time only a small portion of the entire context.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 3, 2021)

boedicca said:


> Not the ones the Prog-Fascists keep censoring and canceling, bub.


No. Google it, dope. There are pages and pages of updates from many areas.
Just stop.


----------



## LibertyKid (Aug 3, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Some of the vaccinated may spread the virus. This is what you’re missing. As only a small number have been found to do so. All the more reason to mask up and vaccinate. The goal is to greatly reduce the likelihood of serious illness or death for all. Walking around with no protection at all is not only foolish but it does nothing to get our society protected as a whole.


Recent reports coming from CDC are stating that the viral load of those vaccinated is the same as non-vaccinated which allows them to transmit just as easily.  This is why new mask mandates are coming.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 3, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> Recent reports coming from CDC are stating that the viral load of those vaccinated is the same as non-vaccinated which allows them to transmit just as easily.  This is why new mask mandates are coming.


“Can be” not “is”.  Stop trying to assert that every vaccinated person is. You need to use your brain when processing this information.


----------



## Lesh (Aug 3, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> Recent reports coming from CDC are stating that the viral load of those vaccinated is the same as non-vaccinated which allows them to transmit just as easily.  This is why new mask mandates are coming.


And that unvaccinated people are at very high risk of serious illness and death


----------



## LibertyKid (Aug 3, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> “Can be” not “is”.  Stop trying to assert that every vaccinated person is. You need to use your brain when processing this information.


Semantics... The viral load has always been a variable, depending on one's exposure.  The point, if you still want to argue is that a vaccinated person can carry the same viral load as a non-vaccinated person.  How about use your brain for a little comprehension instead of trying to debate something that we probably actually agree on.... SMH.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 3, 2021)

LordBrownTrout said:


> We never get to see the "experts" models, research, abstracts yet we're supposed to take the govt, media, pharma's word for it without questioning anything? Dont think so.


This.  ^^  I won't get the jab unless there is transparency.   No transparency = no trust = I'm not getting the jab.  The problem is what you posted here, on top of censorship, suppression of speech, deplatforming, and cancel culture.  If they want me to get the jab so much, then why don't they give me the transparency that I need?


----------



## LibertyKid (Aug 3, 2021)

Lesh said:


> And that unvaccinated people are at very high risk of serious illness and death


If... they have co-morbidities and or underlying health conditions.  From day 1 we heard from the medical experts who were at risk of severe infection from Covid.  That hasn't changed.  My guess, until I hear otherwise, is that if you're a healthy person, with no underlying health risks or co-morbidities, if you contract Covid now, even with the Delta variant, you're likely going to be okay.  And you still might not even know you have it which we knew from day one as well, which is why we were all supposed to mask up.


----------



## Lesh (Aug 3, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> If... they have co-morbidities and or underlying health conditions.  From day 1 we heard from the medical experts who were at risk of severe infection from Covid.  That hasn't changed.  My guess, until I hear otherwise, is that if you're a healthy person, with no underlying health risks or co-morbidities, if you contract Covid now, even with the Delta variant, you're likely going to be okay.  And you still might not even know you have it which we knew from day one as well, which is why we were all supposed to mask up.


600,000 dead so far...


----------



## boedicca (Aug 3, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> No. Google it, dope. There are pages and pages of updates from many areas.
> Just stop.




Google it?  Use a Surveillance Tech Service well known for canceling, censoring, deplatforming and manipulating its algorithm to push unfavored information to the bottom of the interwebs?

Back in Realityland, Delta is a weaker version with a teensy tiny mortality rate that is no worse than a normal flu season.  The Pandemic is over. The SCAMdemic continues.


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Aug 3, 2021)

Lesh said:


> And that unvaccinated people are at very high risk of serious illness and death



99.7 percent recovery rate.  Yeah, real high.  Its nothing compared to the spanish flu.


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Aug 3, 2021)

boedicca said:


> Google it?  Use a Surveillance Tech Service well know for canceling, censoring, deplatforming and manipulating its algorithm to push unfavored information to the bottom of the interwebs?
> 
> Back in Realityland, Delta is a weaker version with a teensy tiny mortality rate that is no worse than a normal flu season.  The Pandemic is over. The SCAMdemic continues.



They don't want to know the truth.  They're content with inhaling the lies and propaganda in high doses.


----------



## LibertyKid (Aug 3, 2021)

Lesh said:


> 600,000 dead so far...


Very sad.  Blame that lab in China.  








						The Lab-Leak Theory: Inside the Fight to Uncover COVID-19’s Origins
					

Throughout 2020, the notion that the novel coronavirus leaked from a lab was off-limits. Those who dared to push for transparency say toxic politics and hidden agendas kept us in the dark.




					www.vanityfair.com
				




And my guess is that the majority are and or where at high risk.  Which is my point.

I'll also point out that over the last century, hundreds of thousands have died due other high risk activities, that, if we were so concerned about "saving lives", we would stop the sell of alcohol, tobacco, and fast food joints.  I understand that alcoholism isn't contagious.  But a life is a life, right?  So why aren't we arguing and debating on why the gov't isn't shutting down the sales of alcohol or tobacco.  That could be easily solved.  But it's not a political divisive tool... yet.  Just wait till it becomes one and the gov't comes after those items too.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 3, 2021)

Mac1958 said:


> If you don't want to get vaccinated, don't get vaccinated.  We'll just have do this the hard way, a combination of vaccines and infections to create a herd immunity.
> 
> It would be* really nice *if you could make a _*little effort*_ to not infect _*others*_.  But I do know that any inconvenience is a big 'ol commie attack on your "freedom" and "liberty", so I won't hold my breath.
> 
> Fuck it.  Good luck.


Vaccinated super spreaders are dying.  They are getting covid, they are getting delta.  They are fucking DYING.


----------



## boedicca (Aug 3, 2021)

LordBrownTrout said:


> They don't want to know the truth.  They're content with inhaling the lies and propaganda in high doses.



The Gaslighting and House Arrests have given a great many progs the Stockholm Syndrome.


----------



## Lesh (Aug 3, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> Very sad. Blame that lab in China.


Not the point.

Death is a major risk


----------



## Lesh (Aug 3, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated super spreaders are dying.  They are getting covid, they are getting delta.  They are fucking DYING.


FAR fewer than those unvaccinated

You got the shot...right?


----------



## Mac1958 (Aug 3, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated super spreaders are dying.  They are getting covid, they are getting delta.  They are fucking DYING.


Link?


----------



## LibertyKid (Aug 3, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Not the point.
> 
> Death is a major risk


It absolutely is a huge point that is being lost in the political and media narrative.  Why, because if it is the source of this pandemic, then China should be held accountable on a global scale for what has happened.  But, if this article is true, and more and more information is coming out about it, we also see that our own gov't was involved and helping to finance the research and making this virus transmittable to humans.  

Also see my edited post.  If death is a risk, then we should be getting rid of other pandemics in this country.


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Aug 3, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Not the point.
> 
> Death is a major risk


 1 out of every 1 person dies.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 3, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Especially to those who spread misleading information


Lefties have adopted this "misinformation" rhetoric because they can't get away with saying "false information"


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 3, 2021)

Lesh said:


> 600,000 dead so far...


And 550,000 fewer boating accidents and heart attacks.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 3, 2021)

Mac1958 said:


> Link?


Mac, you should learn about early in home treatment of covid, since vaccinated super spreaders like you do indeed get delta and covid.  Early in home treatment can make the difference between life and death.  Vaccinated super spreaders really are dying, and you don't need to be one of the ones who dies.


----------



## Mac1958 (Aug 3, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Mac, you should learn about early in home treatment of covid, since vaccinated super spreaders like you do indeed get delta and covid.  Early in home treatment can make the difference between life and death.  Vaccinated super spreaders really are dying, and you don't need to be one of the ones who dies.


Yeah, I didn't think so.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 3, 2021)

Sta


Mac1958 said:


> Yeah, I didn't think so.


You can start your life saving early in home treatment by simply learning all about it before you get sick.  Vaccinated super spreaders don't really need to die,  they just need the knowledge that is being kept from them.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> So if being vaccinated doesn't stop you from spreading it but masks do, shouldn't it be up to you whether you get vaccinated or not as long as you wear a mask?


Holly Christ! Let me try this on a lower grade level

1. While some vaxxed people do get it and carry a very transmissable viral load,most vaxxed people do not get it at all

2. With more  people afer vaxxed , the spread will slow and fewer varients will emerge.

3. Neither masks or the vaxx are 100  % effective but together you have a pretty good chance of avoiding Covid

So yes I care if some dumb ass- who is probobly not wearing a mask either- does not get vaxxed


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 3, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> Okay, then we don't disagree.
> 
> Some thoughts...
> From day one we knew Covid's primary victims were elderly and those with high co-morbidities and underlying heath risks.  Today, that hasn't changed.
> ...


There is so much wrong with your bullshit that I am not even going deal with it


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 3, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Lefties have adopted this "misinformation" rhetoric because they can't get away with saying "false information"


Right-wingers have no valid arguments only fallacy.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 3, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> And 550,000 fewer boating accidents and heart attacks.


And a few less illegals to worry about, so stop whining.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 3, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Mac, you should learn about early in home treatment of covid, since vaccinated super spreaders like you do indeed get delta and covid.  Early in home treatment can make the difference between life and death.  Vaccinated super spreaders really are dying, and you don't need to be one of the ones who dies.


False information from the literally incredible right-wing.  Every study shows the unvaccinated are more at risk for spreading the virus, hospitalization, and death.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 3, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> You can start your life saving early in home treatment by simply learning all about it before you get sick.  Vaccinated super spreaders don't really need to die,  they just need the knowledge that is being kept from them.


So can the unvaccinated who should be more conscientious about it.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 3, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> Semantics... The viral load has always been a variable, depending on one's exposure.  The point, if you still want to argue is that a vaccinated person can carry the same viral load as a non-vaccinated person.  How about use your brain for a little comprehension instead of trying to debate something that we probably actually agree on.... SMH.


Yes and an unvaccinated person is like 1000times more vulnerable to infection after a five minute exposure than a vaccinated person. Not semantics. The breakthrough case count is very low. There simply aren’t that many vaccinated people out and about with high viral loads. Your characterization is just not accurate.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 3, 2021)

boedicca said:


> Google it?  Use a Surveillance Tech Service well known for canceling, censoring, deplatforming and manipulating its algorithm to push unfavored information to the bottom of the interwebs?
> 
> Back in Realityland, Delta is a weaker version with a teensy tiny mortality rate that is no worse than a normal flu season.  The Pandemic is over. The SCAMdemic continues.



You’re not interesting enough to surveil.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 3, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Lefties have adopted this "misinformation" rhetoric because they can't get away with saying "false information"


It’s designed to mislead. Surely you get that, comrade. No?


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 3, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Holly Christ! Let me try this on a lower grade level
> 
> 1. While some vaxxed people do get it and carry a very transmissable viral load,most vaxxed people do not get it at all
> 
> ...


Vaccinated super spreaders are dying.  They are getting covid.  They are getting delta.  They are DYING.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 3, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> It’s designed to mislead. Surely you get that, comrade. No?


There is a big difference between "misinformation" and "false information."


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Aug 3, 2021)

New levels of stupid









						NIH Director Says Parents Should Wear Masks Inside Their Own Homes
					





					summit.news


----------



## LibertyKid (Aug 3, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Yes and an unvaccinated person is like 1000times more vulnerable to infection after a five minute exposure than a vaccinated person. Not semantics. The breakthrough case count is very low. There simply aren’t that many vaccinated people out and about with high viral loads. Your characterization is just not accurate.


Link to that claim?
I could be wrong, but I thought the vaccine was meant to aid the body's ability to fight covid, meaning, you have covid, also meaning, you're infected.  Millions prior to the vaccine were infected and never portrayed any symptoms.  I would imagine that is still the case.


----------



## Lesh (Aug 3, 2021)

LordBrownTrout said:


> 1 out of every 1 person dies.


Save the nihilism for college sophomores


----------



## LibertyKid (Aug 3, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> There is so much wrong with your bullshit that I am not even going deal with it


Easy way to leave a discussion....


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 3, 2021)

The title of the thread is accurate, vaccinated super spreaders do indeed spread covid.  This is a fact.

Vaccinated people are dying, this is a fact.

Vaccinated super spreaders are indeed getting covid and delta, this is a fact.

Vaccinate people are ABSOLUTELY  dying.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 3, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> Easy way to leave a discussion....


Used to be that lefties would call us racists and tell us they were putting us on ignore when they lost debates with us.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 3, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> Easy way to leave a discussion....


I am right here if and when you have some reasonable to contribute.  You have no idea what you're talking about. I don;t have time to try to educate the uneducable


----------



## MinTrut (Aug 3, 2021)

schmidlap said:


> Wow.
> 
> So many Republicans scrambling onto the Biden vaccination juggernaut may be a _pheromone_ thing?
> 
> ...


DemocraTaliban: Sexy as Trump in a Speedo.

Delta variant: Basically a mild flu.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 3, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> The title of the thread is accurate, vaccinated super spreaders do indeed spread covid.  This is a fact.
> 
> Vaccinated people are dying, this is a fact.
> 
> ...


It is propaganda. Propaganda is the practice of telling half truths and leaving out pertinet facts inorder to distort the mesage and influence policy. You are doing that inorder to prove that the vaccine is useless Right

The fact that you leave out are; Very few vaccinated people catch covid and even fewer get very sick and fewer still die. You also fail to mention that the more people who we have vaxxed, the less the disease will spreadand  fewer varients will emerge


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Aug 3, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Save the nihilism for college sophomores


Well, we're approaching a nihilistic society but that doesn't negate the fact.


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Aug 3, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> It is propaganda. Propaganda is the practice of telling half truths and leaving out pertinet facts inorder to distort the mesage and influence policy. You are doing that inorder to prove that the vaccine is useless Right
> 
> The fact that you leave out are; Very few vaccinated people catch covid and even fewer get very sick and fewer still die. You also fail to mention that the more people who we have vaxxed, the less the disease will spreadand  fewer varients will emerge



Mass vaccination is causing the variants.  



			Mass vaccination during pandemic a historic blunder: Nobel laureate Luc Montagnier


----------



## pknopp (Aug 3, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Some of the vaccinated may spread the virus. This is what you’re missing. As only a small number have been found to do so. All the more reason to mask up and vaccinate. The goal is to greatly reduce the likelihood of serious illness or death for all. Walking around with no protection at all is not only foolish but it does nothing to get our society protected as a whole.


 
 That is NOT what we are being told.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 3, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> It is propaganda. Propaganda is the practice of telling half truths and leaving out pertinet facts inorder to distort the mesage and influence policy. You are doing that inorder to prove that the vaccine is useless Right
> 
> The fact that you leave out are; Very few vaccinated people catch covid and even fewer get very sick and fewer still die. You also fail to mention that the more people who we have vaxxed, the less the disease will spreadand  fewer varients will emerge


The facts that I have presented are facts.   No lefty on this site will dispute any of these facts.

Vaccinated people spread covid.

Vaccinated people are dying.

Vaccinated people get delta.

Vaccinated people get covid.

Vaccine politics are dangerous.

It is important for vaccinated people to learn about early in home treatment of covid.

Early in home treatment of covid can be the difference between life and death.


----------



## pknopp (Aug 3, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Holly Christ! Let me try this on a lower grade level
> 
> 1. While some vaxxed people do get it and carry a very transmissable viral load,most vaxxed people do not get it at all



 You can't tell me anything unless you are willing to be honest. That is NOT what we are being told.

_Among people infected by the Delta variant of the coronavirus, fully vaccinated people with "breakthrough" infections may be just as likely as unvaccinated people to spread the virus to others, new research suggests. _

 "Just as likely".

Delta infections among vaccinated likely contagious; Lambda variant shows vaccine resistance in lab


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 3, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> There is a big difference between "misinformation" and "false information."


I said nothing about it, dope.  I said posting misleading information was dangerous. You vomited the rest.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 3, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> Link to that claim?
> I could be wrong, but I thought the vaccine was meant to aid the body's ability to fight covid, meaning, you have covid, also meaning, you're infected.  Millions prior to the vaccine were infected and never portrayed any symptoms.  I would imagine that is still the case.



You are wrong. Bigly.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 3, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> Okay, then we don't disagree.
> 
> Some thoughts...
> From day one we knew Covid's primary victims were elderly and those with high co-morbidities and underlying heath risks.  Today, that hasn't changed.


Actually it has changed. More younger people are being seen with Covid 



LibertyKid said:


> The vaccine's primary group that will benefit is those that are considered high risk.
> Since the vaccine isn't stopping the spread... Not sure the vaccine does much for the healthy, other than mask even further symptoms.


Again not true Anyone can get covid.  
And while vaccinated people who catch covid do spread it. Many more  who   are vaxxed DO NOT GET COVID BECAUSE THEY ARE VAXXED To conclude that the vaccine does not stop the spread because some vaxxed people get it and spread it is a Non sequitur logical fallacy. Your premise does not support your conclusion 


LibertyKid said:


> The healthy can stay un-vaccinated and basically nothing changes for them as the majority will experience nothing from Covid, which we knew from the beginning.  (there maybe a few outliers which the media will absolutely report on but statistically means nothing)


More pathetically uninformed bullshit . Perhaps a majority of them wont get covid but a sizable minority will, enough to keep the pandemic going and to provide hosts for new and more deadly mutations. Where the fuck did you get your degree in infectious disease and public health. ? 


LibertyKid said:


> Then as I see it the biggest group to benefit from the vaccination is the same group that was at risk from the onset. Give the vaccination to the elderly and those that are considered high risk.
> That's why we are pretty much getting back to square one with masks, unless we find a CURE.


Bullshit for reasons that I stated above , Everyone benefits from it. Are you just making this shit up as you go or are you just mindlessly  repeating the shit that is spoon fed to you by right wing medias? 


LibertyKid said:


> Which leads me back to the thought that this is another flu.  It will mutate, we will have to think about yearly vaccines, like the flu.


The first halfway sensible thing that you said  We may well need yearly shots but it is not just the flue


LibertyKid said:


> We can argue for eternity... but the vaccination is not doing anything to curb the spread currently.  The vaccination primarily supports that are high risk while contributing very little to those at low risk.


You really need to educate yourself 



LibertyKid said:


> Masks it is.



Because of morons who won;t get vaxxed


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> You can't tell me anything unless you are willing to be honest. That is NOT what we are being told.
> 
> _Among people infected by the Delta variant of the coronavirus, fully vaccinated people with "breakthrough" infections may be just as likely as unvaccinated people to spread the virus to others, new research suggests. _
> 
> ...


There is something seriously wrong here with our communication and I don't think that it's my problem. I have said about a dozen time that  YES the vaxxed are likely to spread it* if infected.* IF INFECTED But they are far less likely to be infected! That is the point that you are missing or pretending to  not get. I am not the one being dishonest Cut out the straw man logical fallacy bullshit and try to actually address what I am saying


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> That is NOT what we are being told.


It is. It’s maybe your ability to understand that is causing your confusion. 
Breakthrough cases were only .08% of new covid infections in the last seven days. That is not a significant number of vaccinated people walking around with high viral loads.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> You can't tell me anything unless you are willing to be honest. That is NOT what we are being told.
> 
> _Among people infected by the Delta variant of the coronavirus, fully vaccinated people with "breakthrough" infections may be just as likely as unvaccinated people to spread the virus to others, new research suggests. _
> 
> ...



Yes but the number of infected among the vaccinated is very small.


----------



## boedicca (Aug 3, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> You’re not interesting enough to surveil.




It's so pathetic what some people think passes for wit.

Just sayin'.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 3, 2021)

boedicca said:


> It's so pathetic what some people think passes for wit.
> 
> Just sayin'.


Your approval isn’t required.


----------



## pknopp (Aug 3, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> There is something seriously wrong here with our communication and I don't think that it's my problem. I have said about a dozen time that  YES the vaxxed are likely to spread it* if infected.* IF INFECTED But they are far less likely to be infected! That is the point that you are missing or pretending to  not get. I am not the one being dishonest Cut out the straw man logical fallacy bullshit and try to actually address what I am saying



 If the vaccinated can spread the disease, the choice to get vaccinated becomes a personal choice as long as you wear a mask.


----------



## pknopp (Aug 3, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> It is. It’s maybe your ability to understand that is causing your confusion.
> Breakthrough cases were only .08% of new covid infections in the last seven days. That is not a significant number of vaccinated people walking around with high viral loads.



 The facts are we have no facts. People without symptoms arent even getting tested.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> If the vaccinated can spread the disease, the choice to get vaccinated becomes a personal choice as long as you wear a mask.


Are you playing stupid or do you really not get it.? The vast majority of people who get vaxxed do not get Covid and therefore do not spread it. More people getting vaxxed gets us closer to herd immunity and tamps down the spread and the emergence of variants. Therefore it is absolutly not an individual choice because what each person does effects the whole community andthe whole country
If you can dispute any of that bring it on but provide sources or don't bother


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> The facts are we have no facts. People without symptoms arent even getting tested.


The fact is that YOU have no facts


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> The facts are we have no facts. People without symptoms arent even getting tested.


Seems like masks and vaccines are the best bet for everyone then.


----------



## pknopp (Aug 3, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Are you playing stupid or do you really not get it.? The vast majority of people who get vaxxed do not get Covid and therefore do not spread it. More people getting vaxxed gets us closer to herd immunity and tamps down the spread and the emergence of variants. Therefore it is absolutly not an individual choice because what each person does effects the whole community andthe whole country
> If you can dispute any of that bring it on but provide sources or don't bother



 People aren't getting tested. We have no clue who is getting it. 

We have examples of 8-9 baseball players testing positive. None of them were sick, they were just required to get tested. 

 As far as we know there may be millions of vaccinated that are infected.


----------



## pknopp (Aug 3, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Seems like masks and vaccines are the best bet for everyone then.



 Probably for yourself but where it comes to yourself shouldn't you be able to make that choice? 

 Riding with a helmet is far better but we give people that option.


----------



## pknopp (Aug 3, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> The fact is that YOU have no facts



 As I have been saying. ..........


----------



## Ben Thomson (Aug 3, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> View attachment 519169
> wow
> 
> 
> ...


We must be forced to get an experimental vaccine?..right off the bat you show your ignorance. The vaccines are not 'experimental'. They went through testing stages. Anti-vaxers like you are just playing on the fact they didn't get the standard FDA approval first. That was due to the dire need to get as many people vaccinated as possible in the shortest amount of time. That was due to how dire things were with people dying by the hundreds everyday.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Probably for yourself but where it comes to yourself shouldn't you be able to make that choice?
> 
> Riding with a helmet is far better but we give people that option.


We also mandate seatbelts. 
You’re arguing against the solution. 
If the vaccinated are infected in the millions as you suggest, then the vaccine is the only solution as those millions are obviously then protected from serious cases and death. Otherwise this goes on and on for a long time. At some point it becomes more of an imperative to normalize our lives and economy than to defer to choice. Seems like such a stupid thing to fight for if it drags us all down.


----------



## pknopp (Aug 3, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> We also mandate seatbelts.
> You’re arguing against the solution.
> If the vaccinated are infected in the millions as you suggest, then the vaccine is the only solution as those millions are obviously then protected from serious cases and death. Otherwise this goes on and on for a long time. At some point it becomes more of an imperative to normalize our lives and economy than to defer to choice. Seems like such a stupid thing to fight for if it drags us all down.



 Yes, those infected are better protected but why shouldn't that be your choice? 

 The same can be said about the flu vaccine. Many people die of the flu but we allow people that choice.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Yes, those infected are better protected but why shouldn't that be your choice?
> 
> The same can be said about the flu vaccine. Many people die of the flu but we allow people that choice.


This ain’t the flu.
You want to be in this limbo-hell indefinitely?
Why should we allow the dumbfucks have the power to keep us all in this shit?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 3, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> That is why masks are being recommended.  And, I thought I was responding to JC456.


And masks are useless


----------



## jc456 (Aug 3, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> This ain’t the flu.
> You want to be in this limbo-hell indefinitely?
> Why should we allow the dumbfucks have the power to keep us all in this shit?


It’s coronavirus yes it is


----------



## pknopp (Aug 3, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> This ain’t the flu.
> You want to be in this limbo-hell indefinitely?
> Why should we allow the dumbfucks have the power to keep us all in this shit?


 
 Again, they are arguing that even the vaccinated are spreading it.

 I can tell you one thing that would help. Get rid of the guy that argued that a pandemic would be worth the research. 

How do you trust a guy that would believe that? Is it worth it?


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Again, they are arguing that even the vaccinated are spreading it.
> 
> I can tell you one thing that would help. Get rid of the guy that argued that a pandemic would be worth the research.
> 
> How do you trust a guy that would believe that? Is it worth it?


Spreading it is meaningless in a world where people don’t become severely ill or die in huge numbers. Get it? 
It would no longer be a major concern. We could return to normal.

I personally don’t want to trade that future for the uncertainty we have now all just to protect the choice of dumbfucks who don’t get it and never will.


----------



## pknopp (Aug 3, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Spreading it is meaningless in a world where people don’t become severely ill or die in huge numbers. Get it?
> It would no longer be a major concern. We could return to normal.
> 
> I personally don’t want to trade that future for the uncertainty we have now all just to protect the choice of dumbfucks who don’t get it and never will.



 It's up to individuals what risks they want to take in life IMO.

 When I ride, I always wear a helmet. I think it's stupid not to but I believe in leaving that choice to others.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 3, 2021)

jc456 said:


> And masks are useless


No, they are not useless.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 3, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> I said nothing about it, dope.  I said posting misleading information was dangerous. You vomited the rest.


Yep, there is a big difference between false information and misinformation.  Lefties have had to take up this "misinformation" rhetoric as a way to mislead people.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 3, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> There is something seriously wrong here with our communication and I don't think that it's my problem. I have said about a dozen time that  YES the vaxxed are likely to spread it* if infected.* IF INFECTED But they are far less likely to be infected! That is the point that you are missing or pretending to  not get. I am not the one being dishonest Cut out the straw man logical fallacy bullshit and try to actually address what I am saying


Vaccinated people spread covid.

Vaccinated people are dying.

Vaccinated people get delta.

Vaccinated people get covid.

Vaccine politics are dangerous.

It is important for vaccinated people to learn about early in home treatment of covid.

Early in home treatment of covid can be the difference between life and death.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 3, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> No, they are not useless.


Masks are useless


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 3, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Spreading it is meaningless in a world where people don’t become severely ill or die in huge numbers. Get it?
> It would no longer be a major concern. We could return to normal.
> 
> I personally don’t want to trade that future for the uncertainty we have now all just to protect the choice of dumbfucks who don’t get it and never will.


Know your facts:

Vaccinated people spread covid.

Vaccinated people are dying.

Vaccinated people get delta.

Vaccinated people get covid.

Vaccine politics are dangerous.

It is important for vaccinated people to learn about early in home treatment of covid.

Early in home treatment of covid can be the difference between life and death.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 3, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Masks are useless


No, they are not.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> It's up to individuals what risks they want to take in life IMO.
> 
> When I ride, I always wear a helmet. I think it's stupid not to but I believe in leaving that choice to others.


There’s far larger considerations than choice that need to be addressed. Keeping our medical infrastructure stressed for extended periods is not sustainable.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 3, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Know your facts:
> 
> Vaccinated people spread covid.
> 
> ...


Being unvaccinated is much worse than getting vaccinated.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 3, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Being unvaccinated is much worse than getting vaccinated.


Here are the facts:

Vaccine statistics are being manipulated to promote a political narrative

Vaccine information is being suppressed and censored.

Well credentialed doctors and scientists are being deplatformed and canceled for their professional opinions about vaccines.

Vaccinated people spread covid.

Vaccinated people are dying.

Vaccinated people get delta.

Vaccinated people get covid.

Vaccine politics are dangerous.

It is important for vaccinated people to learn about early in home treatment of covid.

Early in home treatment of covid can be the difference between life and death.


----------



## JustAGuy1 (Aug 3, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> There’s far larger considerations than choice that need to be addressed. Keeping our medical infrastructure stressed for extended periods is not sustainable.



Oh shut up, you're scared and you're willing to FORCE everyone else to do your bidding. It won't happen.


----------



## ClaireH (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> So is the risk of a pandemic still worth doing the research?


No worries pknopp- there are multiple research teams actively seeking “the next pandemic” frantically scouring the Amazon region to find disease-ridden animals…all in the futile game of attempting to “get ahead of it”. An article linked below, describes how these teams target infected populations of various monkeys and rodents, cut them up and collect the infected ones. This particular team that was interviewed leaves the carcasses of uninfected rodents dead along the road and elsewhere. The team talked about the horrendous stench from their coolers, due to using them to collect these infected animals they find. Actively seeking diseased animals that have never had contact with people is a most dangerous mission.









						Scientists Scour the Amazon for Pathogens That Could Spark the Next Pandemic
					

To read a Spanish translation of this story, visit the El País website. When Marcelo Gordo opens the picnic cooler, the stench is suffocating. Three dead pied tamarin monkeys, their cream-and-caramel...




					pulitzercenter.org
				



This blows my mind.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 3, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Here are the facts:
> 
> Vaccine statistics are being manipulated to promote a political narrative
> 
> ...


The only people "manipulating facts" are right-wingers.  Every credible study shows you are simply wrong even though you are on the right.


----------



## JustAGuy1 (Aug 3, 2021)

You're in your 70's, you'll be dead soon. Go away.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 3, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Know your facts:
> 
> Vaccinated people spread covid.
> 
> ...






Now all you have to do is explain how that changes the fact that vaccinated people rarely get infected, get sick and die


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 3, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> The only people "manipulating facts" are right-wingers.  Every credible study shows you are simply wrong even though you are on the right.


By alleging this,  you validated the rest of the list.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 3, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated people spread covid.
> 
> Vaccinated people are dying.
> 
> ...


There is something seriously wrong with you if you can't understand what I am saying. And what exactly is the "early in home treatment" You have failed miserably in justifying your anti Vax position. You are totslly ignoring my point that you are far less likely to get Covid and even less chance of dying if you are vaxxed, even if those who are vaxxed and get it- a small number- can spread it.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 3, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> By alleging this,  you validated the rest of the list.


The point is that the unvaccinated are getting it worse than the vaccinated.  Every credible study shows it.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 3, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> There is something seriously wrong with you if you can't understand what I am saying. And what exactly is the "early in home treatment" You have failed miserably in justifying your anti Vax position. You are totslly ignoring my point that you are far less likely to get Covid and even less chance of dying if you are vaxxed, even if those who are vaxxed and get it- a small number- can spread it.


The unvaccinated should be more conscientious about early in home treatment.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 3, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> The unvaccinated should be more conscientious about early in home treatment.


What is this early in home treatment ?


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 3, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> What is this early in home treatment ?


No idea.  I am merely "parroting" that since EvMetor keeps bringing it up.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 3, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> No idea.  I am merely "parroting" that since EvMetor keeps bringing it up.


I'm sure that he/she has no idea either


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 3, 2021)

JustAGuy1 said:


> Oh shut up, you're scared and you're willing to FORCE everyone else to do your bidding. It won't happen.


I’m vaccinated ,dope. I’m not scared at all. Only a fool thinks that this level of continued stress won’t have consequences for our society. It will happen one way or another. Vaccination rates are already increasing and more venues are requiring proof of vaccine to participate. You will either get on board or be marginalized to the point of insignificance.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> It's up to individuals what risks they want to take in life IMO.
> 
> When I ride, I always wear a helmet. I think it's stupid not to but I believe in leaving that choice to others.


If you wipe out on your bike an split your head open on the pavement it is not just about you. It is about your family friends and love ones.It is about the burden on the health care system  It is about the fact that if you become a vegetable, the taxpayers will have to support you and if you die they will be supporting your family'

With covid it is worse. If you get it you could infect 9-10 other each of which will infect an equal number of others. The health care sytem will be overwhelmed andthe virus will have an unlimited numder of hosts inwhich it can mutate. Smarten the fuck up. That Libertarian bullshit is just that ..Bullshit


----------



## pknopp (Aug 3, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> If you wipe out on your bike an split your head open on the pavement it is not just about you. It is about your family friends and love ones. It is about the fact that if you become a vegetable, the taxpayers will have to support you and if you die they will be supporting your family'
> 
> With covid it is worse. If you get it you could infect 9-10 other each of which will infect an equal number of others. The health care sytem will be overwhelmed andthe virus will have an unlimited numder of hosts inwhich it can mutate. Smarten the fuck up. That Libertarian bullshit is just that ..Bullshit



 The government is telling us that vaccinated people can infect the same people.

 So we still believe that the risk of doing the research is worth the risk of a pandemic? As long as we are willing to take that risk, I believe the risk of any individual is small.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 3, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> The point is that the unvaccinated are getting it worse than the vaccinated.  Every credible study shows it.


Here are the facts:

Vaccine statistics are being manipulated to promote a political narrative

Vaccine information is being suppressed and censored.

Well credentialed doctors and scientists are being deplatformed and canceled for their professional opinions about vaccines.

Vaccinated people spread covid.

Vaccinated people are dying.

Vaccinated people get delta.

Vaccinated people get covid.

Vaccine politics are dangerous.

It is important for vaccinated people to learn about early in home treatment of covid.

Early in home treatment of covid can be the difference between life and death.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> The government is telling us that vaccinated people can infect the same people.
> 
> So we still believe that the risk of doing the research is worth the risk of a pandemic? As long as we are willing to take that risk, I believe the risk of any individual is small.


You are making NO sense whatsoever.The vast majority of vaxxed people are not infecting anyone. It has become a pandemic of the unvacinated . What part of that do you not understand


----------



## pknopp (Aug 3, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> You are making NO sense whatsoever



 You just have no reply.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 3, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> You will either get on board or be marginalized to the point of insignificance.


This is the problem with lefty ideology and culture.  This is the most un-American thing I've seen in awhile, you have inspired me to fight vaccine culture with everything I've got.


----------



## MisterBeale (Aug 3, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> more venues are requiring proof of vaccine to participate





EvMetro said:


> This is the problem with lefty ideology and culture.  This is the most un-American thing I've seen in awhile, you have inspired me to fight vaccine culture with everything I've got.


I remember way back in the middle of last year, when we called out this whole thing as a globalist power grab, and made that claim that they would roll out vaccine passports that would eventually have all your data, and combine your financial info, and all of it, in order to participate in civil society.

. . . they claimed it was all "conspiracy non-sense."

Now?  IN many parts or Europe, it is here.  Some parts are making the jab mandatory to vote.  Here in the States, some places you can't have a job with government or attend school w/o the jab, and concert and sporting events won't let you in unless you have it, and they no longer take cash.

. . . yes, it was not "conspiracy," everything is transpiring, just as we said it was going to.

This isn't about a disease, this is about control by the global oligarchy, some are just too much in fear and ignorance to see it.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 3, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Vaccine statistics are being manipulated to promote a political narrative
> 
> Vaccine information is being suppressed and censored.
> 
> Well credentialed doctors and scientists are being deplatformed and canceled for their professional opinions about vaccines.


You are delusional. You have been sucked into a conspiracy cult Get help or at least just shut the fuck up


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> You just have no reply.


Bullshit! You edited out my reply..You can't deal with my reply. You are a dishonest coward and a liar

This is therest of what I said'



> The vast majority of vaxxed people are not infecting anyone. It has become a pandemic of the unvacinated



Deal with it or shut the fuck up!


----------



## pknopp (Aug 3, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Bullshit! You edited out my reply..You can't deal with my reply. You are a dishonest coward and a liar
> 
> This is therest of what I said'
> 
> ...



 The government is saying that the vaccinated can spread the virus just the same as the unvaccinated. What you say is irrelevant.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 3, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> You are delusional. You have been sucked into a conspiracy cult Get help or at least just shut the fuck up


Glad to see you did not dispute ANY of the facts that I posted.


----------



## Lesh (Aug 3, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> This is the problem with lefty ideology and culture.  This is the most un-American thing I've seen in awhile, you have inspired me to fight vaccine culture with everything I've got.


It's totally political for you...and that gets people dead


----------



## Turtlesoup (Aug 3, 2021)

ScorpioRising007 said:


> The vaccine seems to work for me and my wife. I got my 2nd dose back in January. Since then we have been maskless to many crowded outdoor concerts/ fairs/ parades. We have been maskless to many crowded indoor bars, clubs, large indoor family gatherings, crowded indoor pools/ outdoor beaches, standing in long lines at Great America, etc. My wife and I have on many occasions found out later we were in close contact with someone who had COVID. I have been in close contact at my job on many occasions with those who have COVID. I have not gotten COVID once yet to this date.
> 
> My job in healthcare requires me to test weekly for COVID. Every single week since January when got the vaccine I have always tested negative and I have not once gotten sick. Either it is the vaccine or I just am lucky with a really good immune system


Healthcare?  High probability that you already had covid before getting the vaccine then?


----------



## Lesh (Aug 3, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated people spread covid.


They can. Unvaccinated people WILL


EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated people are dying.


They can. Unvaccinated people WILL


EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated people get delta.


They can. Unvaccinated people WILL. You either get vaccinated or you get the delta variant of covid. It could be both but almost never leads to hospitalization if vaxxed


EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated people get covid.


Delta IS covid stupid


EvMetro said:


> Vaccine politics are dangerous.


Yea...YOU are dangerous


EvMetro said:


> Early in home treatment of covid can be the difference between life and *death.*


Get covid and don't get medical help and it certainly WILL


----------



## Lesh (Aug 3, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> Healthcare? High probability that you already had covid before getting the vaccine then?


Hey dope...testing would have shown that


----------



## Likkmee (Aug 3, 2021)

I spread tatanus ! FUCK You


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 3, 2021)

pknopp said:


> The government is saying that the vaccinated can spread the virus just the same as the unvaccinated. What you say is irrelevant.


You are rediclous! The vast n=majority of those vaxxed do not contrat covid or spread it. What fucking part of that do you not understand?


----------



## pknopp (Aug 3, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> You are rediclous! The vast n=majority of those vaxxed do not contrat covid or spread it. What fucking part of that do you not understand?



 We have NO idea . People are NOT getting tested. I've pointed this out before and no one has disputed it. We had 8-9 baseball players test positive after the All-Star game. They were vaccinated. They were fine, not sick or showing symptoms. They were tested simply because they get regularly tested.

 How many others out there that are feeling fine are not getting tested?


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 3, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Glad to see you did not dispute ANY of the facts that I posted.


Good fucking god. Obviously you do not understand propaganda


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 3, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Vaccine statistics are being manipulated to promote a political narrative


Any credible sources?


----------



## Lesh (Aug 3, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Any credible sources?


Evmetro has admitted that his entire agenda is political and NOT medical or science based


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 3, 2021)

Lesh said:


> They can. Unvaccinated people WILL
> 
> They can. Unvaccinated people WILL
> 
> ...


Here are the facts:

Vaccine statistics are being manipulated to promote a political narrative

Vaccine information is being suppressed and censored.

Well credentialed doctors and scientists are being deplatformed and canceled for their professional opinions about vaccines.

Vaccinated people spread covid.

Vaccinated people are dying.

Vaccinated people get delta.

Vaccinated people get covid.

Vaccine politics are dangerous.

It is important for vaccinated people to learn about early in home treatment of covid.

Early in home treatment of covid can be the difference between life and death.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 3, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Here are the facts:
> 
> Vaccine statistics are being manipulated to promote a political narrative


That is not a fact simply because a right-winger posts it.


----------



## Lesh (Aug 3, 2021)

Lesh said:


> They can. Unvaccinated people WILL
> 
> They can. Unvaccinated people WILL
> 
> ...


Save it Rainman


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 4, 2021)

j-mac said:


> Do your doctors wear bandanas?


What kind of question is this?


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 4, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Here are the facts:
> 
> Vaccine statistics are being manipulated to promote a political narrative
> 
> ...



And if you are not vaccinated then you will be infected from the Sars-Co-V2 virus. This is only a question of time. The younger you are the higher the chance is that you will be only vaccinated in a natural way from this dangerous virus itself. The older you are the higher is the chance to get covid-19. And the younger you are the higher is the chance to get only some few symptoms - the older you are the higher is the chance to get serios problems - also long term problems - and/or to die a terrible death.

Everything is always able to happen. This all is a question of probabilities. Who is vaccinated has much better chances.


----------



## Turtlesoup (Aug 4, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Hey dope...testing would have shown that


What Testing?  I didn't see any mention of testing for Covid antibodies or antigens.


----------



## j-mac (Aug 4, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> What kind of question is this?


How about this, would you trust your doctor to operate on you wearing a cloth bandana?


----------



## Lesh (Aug 4, 2021)

j-mac said:


> How about this, would you trust your doctor to operate on you wearing a cloth bandana?


No. They wear surgical masks

We should wear at least that when around other people


----------



## LibertyKid (Aug 4, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> You are wrong. Bigly.


Bigly??  What does that mean.  Some type of internet slight to show how impressive your discussion skills are?  Why don't you prove me wrong then.  Didly.


----------



## LibertyKid (Aug 4, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> You are rediclous! The vast n=majority of those vaxxed do not contrat covid or spread it. What fucking part of that do you not understand?



I have no clue how you are coming up with your reasoning.  It was widely reported that the recent infection in Massachusetts, that 74% of those infected were Vaccinated.  The CDC is claiming that vaccinated people can carry the same load as unvaccinated people.  This means those vaccinated in Massachusetts had Covid.  It also means that if you carry a viral load, it means you are infected whether you show symptoms or not, which was the primary scare of this virus since day one.  Healthy people, prior to vaccinations, could carry and transmit the virus with no symptoms whatsoever.  That's why the mask mandate was put into place, and that's why masks are coming back.  The vaccine will help your immune system fight covid.  It does not mean you can't get it, have a cure, can't transmit the virus.  

What part of that do you NOT understand?  Didly.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 4, 2021)

pknopp said:


> We have NO idea . People are NOT getting tested. I've pointed this out before and no one has disputed it. We had 8-9 baseball players test positive after the All-Star game. They were vaccinated. They were fine, not sick or showing symptoms. They were tested simply because they get regularly tested.
> 
> How many others out there that are feeling fine are not getting tested?


Yes it may be true that there are a lot of people who are asymptomatic and going undetectd. But the fact is, the vast majority of those showing symtoms are UNVACCINATED. What part of that do you not understand>


----------



## pknopp (Aug 4, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Yes it may be true that there are a lot of people who are asymptomatic and going undetectd. But the fact is, the vast majority of those showing symtoms are UNVACCINATED. What part of that do you not understand>



 Yes, showing symptoms. We have covered this. You are still spreading (according to the experts) even if you are vaccinated and not showing symptoms.


----------



## j-mac (Aug 4, 2021)

Lesh said:


> No. They wear surgical masks
> 
> We should wear at least that when around other people


Yeah? Well, those aren’t available to the public now are they?

The masks worn now by the general public are a joke. They stop nothing.


----------



## LibertyKid (Aug 4, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Actually it has changed. More younger people are being seen with Covid
> 
> Again not true Anyone can get covid.


I believe that younger people have been getting and diagnosed with Covid since day 1.  Isn't it plausible that the media want to report that number to support their narrative.
True story, no BS here.  My son since he was 2 every year would get a very dry croupy cough due to allergies in the fall.  Like clockwork last year, it hit again (My son is was 14).  But because of Covid, when i took him to the Dr. they of course had to test him. The Dr. said more than likely it's just the cough and prescribed the typical steroid as usual.  This was a Wednesday.  I have my son every other week and had him since Sunday.  Saturday rolls around and no news on the Covid test, so I call.  The nurse said it was Positive.  My mouth hit the floor.  By Thursday my son's cough was gone, due to the steroid.  No other symptoms.  My wife and I and my Ex's side all get tested.  Everyone was negative, even though my son and I were always at close contact.  My Daughter and my son, are at close contact.  No one got this virus despite how transmissible it is.  

So from personal experience, I do question the validity of the initial tests.  I question the statistical numbers.  I question the transmissibility of this virus.  Covid is real, people are dying of it.  But I also can't help but think that there is a bigger narrative that is being pushed, that is absolutely frightening everyone, even those whom this virus can't harm.  




> And while vaccinated people who catch covid do spread it. Many more  who   are vaxxed DO NOT GET COVID BECAUSE THEY ARE VAXXED To conclude that the vaccine does not stop the spread because some vaxxed people get it and spread it is a Non sequitur logical fallacy. Your premise does not support your conclusion



Then why are we going back to Masks.  Because the viral load of vaccinated people is the same as the unvaccinated.  The CDC's website says that vac helps in not getting infected.  And we are finding out (and we absolutely need more data) that vaccinated people are carrying and spreading the virus.  This why we are going back to masks, even for the vaccinated. 



> More pathetically uninformed bullshit . Perhaps a majority of them wont get covid but a sizable minority will, enough to keep the pandemic going and to provide hosts for new and more deadly mutations. Where the fuck did you get your degree in infectious disease and public health. ?


I don't have one.  Never claimed I did.  You probably don't have one either.  I try to read, understand and make unbiased decisions.  By the way, I am vaccinated.  
My wife is also a health care professional for a regional healthcare system.  Her role allows her to see those hospitalized.  Trust me, I get very informed information.  



> Bullshit for reasons that I stated above , Everyone benefits from it. Are you just making this shit up as you go or are you just mindlessly  repeating the shit that is spoon fed to you by right wing medias?


Maybe everyone benefits from it.  Like I've said.  If you're healthy, at low risk, based on new information that is coming out in regards to breakthrough infections, how does a vaccination help the healthy and those at low risk?  Even today, a low risk person can contract covid and experience nothing.  The vaccination is also no guarantee that a healthy person won't get Covid, carry it and spread the virus.  

IMO, we are so still in the infancy of this entire Covid mess that we honestly don't know enough about it.  We honestly don't know the long term effects of the virus and the vaccination, which only has "emergency" approval.  I think the concerns that some have in regards to data, effectiveness, the MSM and Political narratives are justified.  But I also am concerned that some take a "Conspiratorial" approach.  I'm not sure that's an extreme to take either.  



> The first halfway sensible thing that you said  We may well need yearly shots but it is not just the flue


Right it's not exactly like the flu.  But it is an upper respiratory virus, like the flu  **as an aside note, most people use the term "Flu" wrong.  There is no such thing as a stomach flu, gastro flu, etc."  The flu is a upper respiratory virus

Covid = Corona Virus
Flu = Influenza Virus



> You really need to educate yourself


I am, thanks!


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 4, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Evmetro has admitted that his entire agenda is political and NOT medical or science based





zaangalewa said:


> And if you are not vaccinated then you will be infected from the Sars-Co-V2 virus. This is only a question of time. The younger you are the higher the chance is that you will be only vaccinated in a natural way from this dangerous virus itself. The older you are the higher is the chance to get covid-19. And the younger you are the higher is the chance to get only some few symptoms - the older you are the higher is the chance to get serios problems - also long term problems - and/or to die a terrible death.
> 
> Everything is always able to happen. This all is a question of probabilities. Who is vaccinated has much better chances.


Here are the facts:

Vaccine statistics are being manipulated to promote a political narrative

Vaccine information is being suppressed and censored.

Well credentialed doctors and scientists are being deplatformed and canceled for their professional opinions about vaccines.

Vaccinated people spread covid.

Vaccinated people are dying.

Vaccinated people get delta.

Vaccinated people get covid.

Vaccine politics are dangerous.

It is important for vaccinated people to learn about early in home treatment of covid.

Early in home treatment of covid can be the difference between life and death.


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 4, 2021)

Lesh said:


> No. They wear surgical masks
> 
> We should wear at least that when around other people


If you are going to conflate what surgeons wear during surgery with what people wear in the grocery store, be sure to expect people to wear scrubs, a hair net, faceshield, and rubber gloves to go with that surgical mask when they are in the grocery store.


----------



## Lesh (Aug 4, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> If you are going to conflate what surgeons wear during surgery with what people wear in the grocery store, be sure to expect people to wear scrubs, a hair net, faceshield, and rubber gloves to go with that surgical mask when they are in the grocery store.


Go away rainman


----------



## Lesh (Aug 4, 2021)

j-mac said:


> Yeah? Well, those aren’t available to the public now are they?
> 
> The masks worn now by the general public are a joke. They stop nothing.


Not only are surgical masks readily available now but N95s are as well


----------



## j-mac (Aug 4, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Not only are surgical masks readily available now but N95s are as well


Remember, not everyone can afford the proper mask, if this is what is truly called for...

"NIOSH N95 Respiratory Filtering Face Mask, Made in USA, for Medical Professionals & Personal Protective Use, Latex Free, 50 Individually Wrapped Masks
Visit the PHG PROTECTIVE HEALTH GEAR Store
_3.9 out of 5 stars_  10 ratings

| 3 answered questions





Save 5% Lowest price in 30 days

Was:$189.99 DetailsPrice:$179.99 ($3.60 / Count)You Save:$10.00 (5%)
"

So, you believe that people should just bop onto Amazon and buy this? Why? 

We need to combine those with antibodies from survival of Covid, and those vaccinated, and that is your total immune number...


----------



## JustAGuy1 (Aug 4, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Bullshit! You edited out my reply..You can't deal with my reply. You are a dishonest coward and a liar
> 
> This is therest of what I said'
> 
> ...



Just lookatchu all bossy and shyte!!


----------



## Lesh (Aug 4, 2021)

N95

a buck a piece

https://www.amazon.com/n95/s?k=n95&tag=ff0d01-20

Surgical style masks are way cheaper


----------



## PoliticalChic (Aug 4, 2021)

j-mac said:


> Yeah? Well, those aren’t available to the public now are they?
> 
> The masks worn now by the general public are a joke. They stop nothing.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> No, they are not useless.


sure they were.  I gave you medical reasons.  you wish to ignore a scientific response.  why?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

Lesh said:


> N95
> 
> a buck a piece
> 
> ...


doesn't stop a virus, there's that.  you should do some research idiot.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> doesn't stop a virus, there's that.  you should do some research idiot.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 4, 2021)

j-mac said:


> How about this, would you trust your doctor to operate on you wearing a cloth bandana?



I guess you don't understand that I am not a member of your culture. I am a German. I don't have any idea what you like to say with this sentence. In films you see sometimes that a doctor asks during an operation a nurse to dab away sweat using wadding or cellulose material. I don't have any idea whether exists methods to solve this problem with a kind of bandana,  because often doctors also have to use additional a kind of bandana with special instruments.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 4, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> Bigly??  What does that mean.  Some type of internet slight to show how impressive your discussion skills are?  Why don't you prove me wrong then.  Didly.


Your entire understanding of how vaccines work is wrong. Your education is not my responsibility. Bigly is a Trump word. Where were you the last five or six years?


----------



## Orangecat (Aug 4, 2021)

Synthaholic said:


> Define seriously ill.


Mentally?
Liberal.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 4, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Yes it may be true that there are a lot of people who are asymptomatic and going undetectd. But the fact is, the vast majority of those showing symtoms are UNVACCINATED. What part of that do you not understand>


Apparently these guys need all this meaningless swirl and endless discussion to reach the very simple conclusion that obtaining the vaccine is the only protection anyone has or will have. Masking will pretty much seal the deal.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 4, 2021)

j-mac said:


> Yeah? Well, those aren’t available to the public now are they?
> 
> The masks worn now by the general public are a joke. They stop nothing.


Just ordered another batch of KN95s. Easily obtainable at a reasonable cost.


----------



## Orangecat (Aug 4, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Bigly is a Trump word.


Incorrect. "big league" is a common phase used by Trump.


----------



## ClaireH (Aug 4, 2021)

pknopp said:


> The government is telling us that vaccinated people can infect the same people.
> 
> So we still believe that the risk of doing the research is worth the risk of a pandemic? As long as we are willing to take that risk, I believe the risk of any individual is small.


In reading your post it just dawned on me that this has a dual purpose. In addition to flip-flopping making it extremely hard to believe formerly credible sources like CDC, NIH, and to a lesser extent since US is under the thumb of NIH/CDC WHO,  the media needs to step it up regarding gain-of-function information…credible information would be nice. Yet, national media mostly leaves GoF out of the national conversation by their abundance of whether or not to vaccinate articles.

Scientists who believe gaining knowledge overrides the risk of unleashing (literally) deadly diseases onto humans are wrong. In their minds (at least from what some have stated publicly) their goal to be the first team to discover a new virus is worth the risk of the well-being of populations. The daily distraction of umpteen articles about whether or not one should be vaccinated blinds half of the public to the fact that they shouldn’t be doing this type of research in the first place. Understandably from their end, it’s better to not talk about the benefit/risk factor since the risk absolutely outweighs the benefits of choosing to go down this path of insanity using gain-of-function. Since we’re all arguing about being pro or con for the jabs, it should suit them perfectly for undeterred missions seeking infected animals not currently in contact with humans.


----------



## LibertyKid (Aug 4, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Your entire understanding of how vaccines work is wrong. Your education is not my responsibility. Bigly is a Trump word. Where were you the last five or six years?


In what way am I wrong?  And for the most part not a Trumper and didn't like Trump as a person.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 4, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> I believe that younger people have been getting and diagnosed with Covid since day 1.  Isn't it plausible that the media want to report that number to support their narrative.
> True story, no BS here.  My son since he was 2 every year would get a very dry croupy cough due to allergies in the fall.  Like clockwork last year, it hit again (My son is was 14).  But because of Covid, when i took him to the Dr. they of course had to test him. The Dr. said more than likely it's just the cough and prescribed the typical steroid as usual.  This was a Wednesday.  I have my son every other week and had him since Sunday.  Saturday rolls around and no news on the Covid test, so I call.  The nurse said it was Positive.  My mouth hit the floor.  By Thursday my son's cough was gone, due to the steroid.  No other symptoms.  My wife and I and my Ex's side all get tested.  Everyone was negative, even though my son and I were always at close contact.  My Daughter and my son, are at close contact.  No one got this virus despite how transmissible it is.
> 
> So from personal experience, I do question the validity of the initial tests.  I question the statistical numbers.  I question the transmissibility of this virus.  Covid is real, people are dying of it.  But I also can't help but think that there is a bigger narrative that is being pushed, that is absolutely frightening everyone, even those whom this virus can't harm. ...



There exists by the way in the moment not any clear decision whether children should be vaccinated or not. Interesting in this context could it be to know whether your child is now immune against coivd-19. A normal vaccination is perhaps much more effective because of boost effects than a natural vaccination via an uncalculable covid infection with enourmous risks.

But no one is able to make any experiment in such a direction. The delta variants are for sure more infectious. Here in Germany very most of our politcians suggest to vaccinate everyone beginning from the age of 12 years. They say a herd immunity needs a vaccination of 85%. But numbers are not a god. Every vaccination has also a minimal risk. So what is better to do in case of children? Our scientists still don't have enough data which could justify such a decision - what doesn't mean this is a wrong decision. If someone has to act fast then he is often not able to collect all data before he acts. The risks of a vaccination are for sure more easy calculable than the risks of an infection.

Concrete example. My wife knows someone who knows a young sportsman, who was vaccinated and had a short time later an heart muscle inflammation. I guess if he had not be vaccinated then covid-19 had for sure killed him. So he was lucky because he went to the doctor when he felt something was wrong. This was the best what he was able to do. It needs also medical support after an vaccination. This is by the way the only serios complication, which I know concrete. I guess this is only one case under thousands of vaccinated people.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 4, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> In what way am I wrong?  And for the most part not a Trumper and didn't like Trump as a person.


Not my job to explain to a presumably grown man that the vaccine does not actually infect you with covid.


----------



## pknopp (Aug 4, 2021)

ClaireH said:


> In reading your post it just dawned on me that this has a dual purpose. In addition to flip-flopping making it extremely hard to believe formerly credible sources like CDC, NIH, and to a lesser extent since US is under the thumb of NIH/CDC WHO,  the media needs to step it up regarding gain-of-function information…credible information would be nice. Yet, national media mostly leaves GoF out of the national conversation by their abundance of whether or not to vaccinate articles.
> 
> Scientists who believe gaining knowledge overrides the risk of unleashing (literally) deadly diseases onto humans are wrong. In their minds (at least from what some have stated publicly) their goal to be the first team to discover a new virus is worth the risk of the well-being of populations. The daily distraction of umpteen articles about whether or not one should be vaccinated blinds half of the public to the fact that they shouldn’t be doing this type of research in the first place. Understandably from their end, it’s better to not talk about the benefit/risk factor since the risk absolutely outweighs the benefits of choosing to go down this path of insanity using gain-of-function. Since we’re all arguing about being pro or con for the jabs, it should suit them perfectly for undeterred missions seeking infected animals not currently in contact with humans.



 If this is bad enough to practically shut the country down, it's bad enough to STOP the research. Until we do that I do not believe anything we are told.


----------



## Lesh (Aug 4, 2021)

pknopp said:


> If this is bad enough to practically shut the country down, it's bad enough to STOP the research. Until we do that I do not believe anything we are told.


That makes ZERO sense


----------



## pknopp (Aug 4, 2021)

Lesh said:


> That makes ZERO sense



 It makes perfect sense. We did stop our participation in it from 2014-2017.


----------



## ClaireH (Aug 4, 2021)

Lesh said:


> That makes ZERO sense


If you’re not being facetious you need to read up. That’s the first and last time I’ll ever use that expression on here telling somebody to “read up” but honestly you need to ….I’ve read many of your posts.






						What is Gain-of-Function Research & Who is at High Risk? – Alliance for Human Research Protection
					






					ahrp.org


----------



## Lesh (Aug 4, 2021)

pknopp said:


> It makes perfect sense.


Maybe if you're a Q freak or something.

Not to rational humans


----------



## Lesh (Aug 4, 2021)

ClaireH said:


> If you’re not being facetious you need to read up. That’s the first and last time I’ll ever use that expression on here telling somebody to “read up” but honestly you need to ….I’ve read many of your posts.


Great. Explain the "logic" of that


----------



## ClaireH (Aug 4, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Great. Explain the "logic" of that


I was too quick in my response I admit. I  understand losing patience with other posters so much better now as opposed to even a few weeks ago  lol 






						What is Gain-of-Function Research & Who is at High Risk? – Alliance for Human Research Protection
					






					ahrp.org


----------



## pknopp (Aug 4, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Maybe if you're a Q freak or something.
> 
> Not to rational humans



Are you saying Obama was a Q freak?


----------



## Lesh (Aug 4, 2021)

ClaireH said:


> I was too quick in my response I admit. I  understand losing patience with other posters so much better now as opposed to even a few weeks ago  lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So you don't agree that when faced with a medical emergency we should stop all research?

Because that was the stupid claim


----------



## ClaireH (Aug 4, 2021)

Lesh said:


> So you don't agree that when faced with a medical emergency we should stop all research?
> 
> Because that was the stupid claim


If you’re not going to read the article I linked there’s no sense to discuss anything Lesh.

For all readers actually interested in information and are too pressed for time to read the article, here is the important information:

“ “Gain-of-function” is the euphemism for biological research aimed at increasing the virulence and lethality of pathogens and viruses*. GoF research is government funded; its focus is on enhancing the pathogens’ ability to infect different species and to increase their deadly impact as airborne pathogens and viruses. *Ostensibly, GoF research is conducted for biodefense purposes. These experiments, however, are extremely dangerous. *Those deadly science-enhanced pathogens can, and do escape into the community where they infect and kill people. What’s more, this line of research can be used for biological warfare.*


----------



## Lesh (Aug 4, 2021)

pknopp said:


> If this is bad enough to practically shut the country down, it's bad enough to STOP the research. Until we do that I do not believe anything we are told.


That is what you said. Obama has nothing to do with what we do or don't do now.

Or did you not make yourself clear?


----------



## Lesh (Aug 4, 2021)

ClaireH said:


> If you’re not going to read the article I linked there’s no sense to discuss anything Lesh.


You seem as lost as that idiot.


----------



## pknopp (Aug 4, 2021)

Lesh said:


> That is what you said. Obama has nothing to do with what we do or don't do now.
> 
> Or did you not make yourself clear?



 I note that we need to stop. You said only Q freaks do that. I note that we did that from 2014-17 under Obama, hence.................

 My question.......are you saying Obama was a Q freak?


----------



## Lesh (Aug 4, 2021)

pknopp said:


> I note that we need to stop. You said only Q freaks do that. I note that we did that from 2014-17 under Obama, hence.................
> 
> My question.......are you saying Obama was a Q freak?


So you were NOT talking about stopping all research NOW?

Like i said. You did not make yourself clear.

So what you are actually talking about is G of F which is not currently going on...is it?

What is it that yo want to stop then? Or do you even know?


----------



## Lesh (Aug 4, 2021)

ClaireH said:


> If you’re not going to read the article I linked there’s no sense to discuss anything Lesh.


Just curious...how did you happen on that particular article?


----------



## ClaireH (Aug 4, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Just curious...how did you happen on that particular article?


I look for scientific articles before logging onto this board. There is always something fascinating to learn but it takes actively searching or subscribing (free) to various science updates- I get emails (signed up for free) for different science magazines like _Science Daily,_ _Nature, Science,_ as this info isn’t much covered by national news. Here is a link for great science info updates. You can go there and sign up for free for email updates.





__





						News | NSF - National Science Foundation
					

NSF's mission is to advance the progress of science, a mission accomplished by funding proposals for research and education made by scientists, engineers, and educators from across the country.




					www.nsf.gov


----------



## pknopp (Aug 4, 2021)

Lesh said:


> So you were NOT talking about stopping all research NOW?
> 
> Like i said. You did not make yourself clear.
> 
> ...



 Yes, we need to stop NOW. Yes it's going on.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 4, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Here are the facts:
> 
> Vaccine statistics are being manipulated to promote a political narrative
> 
> ...



That's an endless loop now by answering with this text to which I will give not any comment with the answer which I gave to you. Again my answer - try to understand what I said here:

_And if you are not vaccinated then you will be infected from the Sars-Co-V2 virus. This is only a question of time. The younger you are the higher the chance is that you will be only vaccinated in a natural way from this dangerous virus itself. The older you are the higher is the chance to get covid-19. And the younger you are the higher is the chance to get only some few symptoms - the older you are the higher is the chance to get serios problems - also long term problems - and/or to die a terrible death.

Everything is always able to happen. This all is a question of probabilities. Who is vaccinated has much better chances.     

 _


----------



## EvMetro (Aug 4, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> That's an endless loop now by answering with this text to which I will give not any comment woth the answer which I gave to you. Again my answer - try to understand what I said here:
> 
> _And if you are not vaccinated then you will be infected from the Sars-Co-V2 virus. This is only a question of time. The younger you are the higher the chance is that you will be only vaccinated in a natural way from this dangerous virus itself. The older you are the higher is the chance to get covid-19. And the younger you are the higher is the chance to get only some few symptoms - the older you are the higher is the chance to get serios problems - also long term problems - and/or to die a terrible death.
> 
> ...


I'm glad to see that you do not dispute any of the facts that I have posted.  Here are the facts that you do not dispute:

Vaccine statistics are being manipulated to promote a political narrative

Vaccine information is being suppressed and censored.

Well credentialed doctors and scientists are being deplatformed and canceled for their professional opinions about vaccines.

Vaccinated people spread covid.

Vaccinated people are dying.

Vaccinated people get delta.

Vaccinated people get covid.

Vaccine politics are dangerous.

It is important for vaccinated people to learn about early in home treatment of covid.

Early in home treatment of covid can be the difference between life and death.


----------



## LibertyKid (Aug 4, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Not my job to explain to a presumably grown man that the vaccine does not actually infect you with covid.


What... I never said that.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 4, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> I'm glad to see that you do not dispute any of the facts that I have posted.  Here are the facts that you do not dispute:
> 
> Vaccine statistics are being manipulated to promote a political narrative
> 
> ...



Do you use drugs?


----------



## LibertyKid (Aug 4, 2021)

ClaireH said:


> If you’re not going to read the article I linked there’s no sense to discuss anything Lesh.
> 
> For all readers actually interested in information and are too pressed for time to read the article, here is the important information:
> 
> “ “Gain-of-function” is the euphemism for biological research aimed at increasing the virulence and lethality of pathogens and viruses*. GoF research is government funded; its focus is on enhancing the pathogens’ ability to infect different species and to increase their deadly impact as airborne pathogens and viruses. *Ostensibly, GoF research is conducted for biodefense purposes. These experiments, however, are extremely dangerous. *Those deadly science-enhanced pathogens can, and do escape into the community where they infect and kill people. What’s more, this line of research can be used for biological warfare.*


And this is now gaining some momentum for those that want to pursue the GoF research that was funded by the U.S. and the NIH who, if I understand correctly, was supported by Fauci.  

There are some that want to stick to their platitudes of blaming Trump and the divisiveness of current day politics while ignoring the root cause of this whole damn pandemic.  

Does the finger pointing change when we know that our gov't was funding this dangerous research.  Does the finger pointing change when we start to uncover the facts that certain individuals were trying to denounce the Wuhan lab origin story from the onset?  Does it matter to any of you that the U.S. gov't was trying to direct the narrative of the origin from the onset?  Or, are you just happy fighting vaxers vs. non-vaccers and trying to blame Trump who probably had little knowledge of what was happening in the Wuhan lab and then tried to manage this debacle, which no POTUS could have had under control when more than likely this virus was out months before it was officially announced.  

I'm going to share this Vanity Fair article... again for your reading enjoyment.  









						The Lab-Leak Theory: Inside the Fight to Uncover COVID-19’s Origins
					

Throughout 2020, the notion that the novel coronavirus leaked from a lab was off-limits. Those who dared to push for transparency say toxic politics and hidden agendas kept us in the dark.




					www.vanityfair.com


----------



## ClaireH (Aug 4, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> And this is now gaining some momentum for those that want to pursue the GoF research that was funded by the U.S. and the NIH who, if I understand correctly, was supported by Fauci.
> 
> There are some that want to stick to their platitudes of blaming Trump and the divisiveness of current day politics while ignoring the root cause of this whole damn pandemic.
> 
> ...



From your source: “In one State Department meeting, officials seeking to demand transparency from the Chinese government say they were explicitly told by colleagues not to explore the Wuhan Institute of Virology’s gain-of-function research, because it would bring unwelcome attention to U.S. government funding of it.”

Well, well, well, imagine that, a corrupt subset of US politicians and scientists blocking information regardless of the numbers of ethical scientists calling for public transparency. It all boils down to the almighty dollar… well the dollar is not what it used to be so for the sake of accuracy let’s say the almighty trillion of dollars to split around to shut down exposure of facts and for secret funding to continue. The public deserves to know the names of these people.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 4, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> I believe that younger people have been getting and diagnosed with Covid since day 1. Isn't it plausible that the media want to report that number to support their narrative.
> True story, no BS here. My son since he was 2 every year would get a very dry croupy cough due to allergies in the fall. Like clockwork last year, it hit again (My son is was 14). But because of Covid, when i took him to the Dr. they of course had to test him. The Dr. said more than likely it's just the cough and prescribed the typical steroid as usual. This was a Wednesday. I have my son every other week and had him since Sunday. Saturday rolls around and no news on the Covid test, so I call. The nurse said it was Positive. My mouth hit the floor. By Thursday my son's cough was gone, due to the steroid. No other symptoms. My wife and I and my Ex's side all get tested. Everyone was negative, even though my son and I were always at close contact. My Daughter and my son, are at close contact. No one got this virus despite how transmissible it is.
> 
> So from personal experience, I do question the validity of the initial tests. I question the statistical numbers. I question the transmissibility of this virus. Covid is real, people are dying of it. But I also can't help but think that there is a bigger narrative that is being pushed, that is absolutely frightening everyone, even those whom this virus can't harm.


Tests can be wrong. We know that  And you can believe in whatever batshit conspiracies that you want, or that Covid is not as transmissible  None of this cahnges the fact that anyone can get it contrarry to the position that you had taken and which  I was responding to.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Your entire understanding of how vaccines work is wrong. Your education is not my responsibility. Bigly is a Trump word. Where were you the last five or six years?


Vaccines contain the same germs that cause disease. (For example, measles vaccine contains measles virus, and Hib vaccine contains Hib bacteria.) But they have been either killed or weakened to the point that they don’t make you sick.

They didn't do that for Wuhan 19.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 4, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> Then why are we going back to Masks. Because the viral load of vaccinated people is the same as the unvaccinated. The CDC's website says that vac helps in not getting infected. And we are finding out (and we absolutely need more data) that vaccinated people are carrying and spreading the virus. This why we are going back to masks, even for the vaccinated.


The anser is simple. We don't know what vaxxed people are infected if they have no symtoms. Also masks are a second loneof defense for all people since the vax, while effective is not 100% You should have been able to figure that out


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 4, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> I don't have one. Never claimed I did. You probably don't have one either. I try to read, understand and make unbiased decisions. By the way, I am vaccinated.
> My wife is also a health care professional for a regional healthcare system. Her role allows her to see those hospitalized. Trust me, I get very informed information.


Could have fooled me


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> There exists by the way in the moment not any clear decision whether children should be vaccinated or not. Interesting in this context could it be to know whether your child is now immune against coivd-19. A normal vaccination is perhaps much more effective because of boost effects than a natural vaccination via an uncalculable covid infection with enourmous risks.
> 
> But no one is able to make any experiment in such a direction. The delta variants are for sure more infectious. Here in Germany very most of our politcians suggest to vaccinate everyone beginning from the age of 12 years. They say a herd immunity needs a vaccination of 85%. But numbers are not a god. Every vaccination has also a minimal risk. So what is better to do in case of children? Our scientists still don't have enough data which could justify such a decision - what doesn't mean this is a wrong decision. If someone has to act fast then he is often not able to collect all data before he acts. The risks of a vaccination are for sure more easy calculable than the risks of an infection.
> 
> Concrete example. My wife knows someone who knows a young sportsman, who was vaccinated and had a short time later an heart muscle inflammation. I guess if he had not be vaccinated then covid-19 had for sure killed him. So he was lucky because he went to the doctor when he felt something was wrong. This was the best what he was able to do. It needs also medical support after an vaccination. This is by the way the only serios complication, which I know concrete. I guess this is only one case under thousands of vaccinated people.


I doubt the child had Wuhan, like everything else, miss diagnosed and turned into a chinese fire drill for the family to get more people tested.  Too funny, all you people believe this nonsense.  It seems people dropped their brains at the funny farm.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> The anser is simple. We don't know what vaxxed people are infected if they have no symtoms. Also masks are a second loneof defense for all people since the vax, while effective is not 100% You should have been able to figure that out


well mostly all positive wuhan tests were of people with no symptoms.  WTF are you mumbling about?

Stupid people with no symptoms of being sick went and got tested.  For what reason is beyond my experience with sane  people.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 4, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> Maybe everyone benefits from it. Like I've said. If you're healthy, at low risk, based on new information that is coming out in regards to breakthrough infections, how does a vaccination help the healthy and those at low risk? Even today, a low risk person can contract covid and experience nothing. The vaccination is also no guarantee that a healthy person won't get Covid, carry it and spread the virus.
> 
> IMO, we are so still in the infancy of this entire Covid mess that we honestly don't know enough about it. We honestly don't know the long term effects of the virus and the vaccination, which only has "emergency" approval. I think the concerns that some have in regards to data, effectiveness, the MSM and Political narratives are justified. But I also am concerned that some take a "Conspiratorial" approach. I'm not sure that's an extreme to take either.


If you have not come to understand why everyone should get vaxxed by now, I fear that it is hopless. If you really are as wellinformed as you are, I can only conclude that you have some idiological blinders on


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Not my job to explain to a presumably grown man that the vaccine does not actually infect you with covid.


what you asked was if he knew how a vaccine works.  I provided the info off of the CDC site.  And you wrote this?   WTF is wrong with you?  Did your brains leak out your ears?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> If you have not come to understand why everyone should get vaxxed by now, I fear that it is hopless. If you really are as wellinformed as you are, I can only conclude that you have some idiological blinders on


why do you supposed to know that?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> what you asked was if he knew how a vaccine works.  I provided the info off of the CDC site.  And you wrote this?   WTF is wrong with you?  Did your brains leak out your ears?


Hutch Starskey BTW, what is it the vaccine does to prevent infection?


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> well mostly all positive wuhan tests were of people with no symptoms. WTF are you mumbling about?
> 
> Stupid people with no symptoms of being sick went and got tested. For what reason is beyond my experience with sane people.


People who have reason to believe that they were exposed need to get tested Popeye. I thought that even you could have figured that out


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Could have fooled me


you're easily fooled, don't worry about it.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> People who have reason to believe that they were exposed need to get tested Popeye.


why if they're not sick?  you seem confused, if one isn't sick and has no symptom, you said they aren't contagious.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Here are the facts:
> 
> Vaccine statistics are being manipulated to promote a political narrative
> 
> ...


most people call it a ploy!!!!


----------



## otto105 (Aug 4, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated super spreaders are dying.  They are getting covid, they are getting delta.  They are DYING.


And as proof you offer....


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> sure, cause you can't prove any of it.  None of us can.  Those figures are tucked under rugs where you can't get to.  Call a hospital and ask how many ICU beds are open.  They won't talk to you!!! they're all silent, money money money boi.


Hutch Starskey show me a transcript from a hospital about being overburdened.


----------



## otto105 (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> most people call it a ploy!!!!


All people call you stupid as fuck.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

otto105 said:


> And as proof you offer....


dude, it's all over in here now.  You're a lazy fk.  What do you need to know that hasn't been posted in here? Dude, I'm happy to enlighten your stupid ass.


----------



## otto105 (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> Hutch Starskey show me a transcript from a hospital about being overburdened.


https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article253182383.html


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

otto105 said:


> https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article253182383.html


That doesn't say one word about being over crowded.  how many hospitals?


----------



## otto105 (Aug 4, 2021)

kaz said:


> You need to start paying attention to what's going on around you


Quit digging in the stupid hole son.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

otto105 said:


> All people call you stupid as fuck.


I give a shit someone more stupid than me calls me stupid as fk.  You're far too stupid to basically understand that.


----------



## otto105 (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> That doesn't say one word about being over crowded.  how many hospitals?


Florida Battles Record Covid-19 Hospitalizations, as Delta Variant Surges


----------



## kaz (Aug 4, 2021)

otto105 said:


> Quit digging in the stupid hole son.



You need to open your eyes, Dad


----------



## otto105 (Aug 4, 2021)

EvMetro said:


> Vaccinated people are dying.  They are getting covid, they are getting delta.  They are fucking dying.


Can you name one? And where it happened?


----------



## otto105 (Aug 4, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> That made me laugh out loud. The vaccines are failing and somehow the "experts say" that's the fault of the unvaccinated.
> 
> Sure sure. Up is down, black is white, dark is light, and sure


Sure, where are the outbreaks again?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

otto105 said:


> Quit digging in the stupid hole son.


still nothing huh?


otto105 said:


> Florida Battles Record Covid-19 Hospitalizations, as Delta Variant Surges


that is no hospital with their bed fill counts!!!! you keep failing, stupid fk.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> That made me laugh out loud. The vaccines are failing and somehow the "experts say" that's the fault of the unvaccinated.
> 
> Sure sure. Up is down, black is white, dark is light, and sure


remember, a demofk thinks 2+2=5


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

otto105 said:


> Sure, where are the outbreaks again?


in your head.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Aug 4, 2021)

otto105 said:


> Sure, where are the outbreaks again?



In my state, in the counties that have the most vaxxed. Down south, which is typical in the summer. Also, Gibraltar, 100% vaxxed, and Israel, highly vaxxed.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> accept:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


danielpalos , you calling WGN news wrong?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> The vaccines aren’t “failing”, dope. Only your understanding of them is failing.


you can't read huh?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

Lesh said:


> And that unvaccinated people are at very high risk of serious illness and death


so? It's my life, I drive a car and i fly in planes.  I cross busy roads and I encounter fools like you daily.


----------



## otto105 (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> still nothing huh?
> 
> that is no hospital with their bed fill counts!!!! you keep failing, stupid fk.


Give deathsantis a few more days son.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> why if they're not sick?  you seem confused, if one isn't sick and has no symptom, you said they aren't contagious.


How stupid are you?  What did I just say. You are the one who is confused


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

otto105 said:


> Give deathsantis a few more days son.


still waiting on a transcript from a hospital that says they're full.  tick tock!!!!!


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> How stupid are you?  What did I just say. You are the one who is confused


and yet you think people who aren't sick ought to be tested.  That's fking stupid.


----------



## otto105 (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> still waiting on a transcript from a hospital that says they're full.  tick tock!!!!!


'I beg you to get vaccinated': TMH VP sounds alarm as hospital sets record in COVID patients


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

otto105 said:


> 'I beg you to get vaccinated': TMH VP sounds alarm as hospital sets record in COVID patients


still doesn't say they are full.  so all those people will be out in two weeks. then what?


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> and yet you think people who aren't sick ought to be tested.  That's fking stupid.


There is something seriously wrong with you, but I knew that already. That comes from CDC guidence,  dipshit. Are smarter than the folks at the CDC. ?? If someone thinks that they were exposed, then damnedwell need to betest befor going to visit 80 year old grand ma, or any vulnerable person. Smarten up Popeye



> There are two types of tests for COVID-19. Viral tests tell you if you have a current infection, and antibody tests tell you if you've been previously infected.
> 
> If you’re experiencing symptoms* or think you’ve been exposed to COVID-19*, contact your health care provider or your state or local public health department to find out where you can get tested. Tests are available at many health centers and some pharmacies. Call in advance to see if an appointment is required. The testing process and timeline for results vary by location.
> 
> CDC: Testing for COVID-19 COVID-19 and Your Health



CDC: Testing for COVID-19 COVID-19 and Your Health


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> There is something seriously wrong with you, but I knew that already. That comes from CDC guidence, dipshit. Are smarter than the folks at the CDC. ??


Naw, I'm all good.  And,  apparently I am smarter than the CDC.  I don't go get tested when I'm not ill.  I enjoy my life.  I pay no heed to guidelines when they don't affect me.  BTW, did you get tested for typhoid?  did you get tested for herpes?  if not, why not?


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> Naw, I'm all good.  And,  apparently I am smarter than the CDC.  I don't go get tested when I'm not ill.  I enjoy my life.  I pay no heed to guidelines when they don't affect me.  BTW, did you get tested for typhoid?  did you get tested for herpes?  if not, why not?


That isn't very smart.  You could be asymptomatic and spreading the virus around.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> Naw, I'm all good.  And,  apparently I am smarter than the CDC.  I don't go get tested when I'm not ill.  I enjoy my life.  I pay no heed to guidelines when they don't affect me.  BTW, did you get tested for typhoid?  did you get tested for herpes?  if not, why not?


People who think that they are smarter than the professionals never are. Piss off with your stupid questions and try not to infect anyone. With anything


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> People who think that they are smarter than the professionals never are. Piss off with your stupid questions and try not to infect anyone. With anything


you will affect more people than I ever will.  You're a loser.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> That isn't very smart.  You could be asymptomatic and spreading the virus around.


you could be infected with typhoid or herpes or HIV infecting everyone, you might even have legionnaires disease.  ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

You might drink and drive, molest little people.  who the fk knows?

BTW, I'm far brighter than you will ever be.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> Vaccines contain the same germs that cause disease. (For example, measles vaccine contains measles virus, and Hib vaccine contains Hib bacteria.) But they have been either killed or weakened to the point that they don’t make you sick.
> 
> They didn't do that for Wuhan 19.


Your point?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> Vaccines contain the same germs that cause disease. (For example, measles vaccine contains measles virus, and Hib vaccine contains Hib bacteria.) But they have been either killed or weakened to the point that they don’t make you sick.
> 
> They didn't do that for Wuhan 19.


Hutch Starskey so you disagree with the CDC?






						Basics of Vaccines | CDC
					

The Basics about Vaccines & Vaccine Preventable Diseases




					www.cdc.gov


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Your point?


I answered your post. Did you forget?  Don't go passing your stupid to anyone.


----------



## MisterBeale (Aug 4, 2021)

Special Video release for our friends here on USMB that have a hard time watching MSNBC or CNN with out a critical thought in they heads. . .


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> what you asked was if he knew how a vaccine works.  I provided the info off of the CDC site.  And you wrote this?   WTF is wrong with you?  Did your brains leak out your ears?


I asked no such thing, dope.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> still doesn't say they are full.  so all those people will be out in two weeks. then what?


So we should wait for them to be full before we do what smart ass?


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 4, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> What... I never said that.





LibertyKid said:


> Link to that claim?
> I could be wrong, but I thought the vaccine was meant to aid the body's ability to fight covid, meaning, you have covid, also meaning, you're infected. Millions prior to the vaccine were infected and never portrayed any symptoms. I would imagine that is still the case.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> what you asked was if he knew how a vaccine works.  I provided the info off of the CDC site.  And you wrote this?   WTF is wrong with you?  Did your brains leak out your ears?


Hutch Starskey you disagree that's what you asked?  did you go brain dead?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> So we should wait for them to be full before we do what smart ass?


report they're full.   They aren't, they won't ever be.  You know why? The percentages don't figure in the math.  you all don't do math, I know.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> Hutch Starskey show me a transcript from a hospital about being overburdened.



Are you ever not a dumbfuck?








						Another Arkansas hospital reported full with COVID-19 cases
					

FAYETTEVILLE, Ark (KNWA/KFTA) – UAMS has just announced that its COVID-19 Unit is full, and accommodations need to be made to support additional cases.   Chancellor for UAMS Dr. Cam…




					www.google.com


----------



## otto105 (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> dude, it's all over in here now.  You're a lazy fk.  What do you need to know that hasn't been posted in here? Dude, I'm happy to enlighten your stupid ass.


I stand by the post.


----------



## otto105 (Aug 4, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> In my state, in the counties that have the most vaxxed. Down south, which is typical in the summer. Also, Gibraltar, 100% vaxxed, and Israel, highly vaxxed.


Which county in which state?


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> I answered your post. Did you forget?  Don't go passing your stupid to anyone.


You answered with shit I never said, dope.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Are you ever not a dumbfuck?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hahahahahahahahaahaha, read what you posted, its covid unit.  Not the hospital.  I asked for the hospital reported full.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> hahahahahahahahaahaha, read what you posted, its covid unit.  Not the hospital.  I asked for the hospital reported full.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> report they're full.   They aren't, they won't ever be.  You know why? The percentages don't figure in the math.  you all don't do math, I know.


What the fuck are you bloviating about now? Do you even know. So not only do you know more than the CDC, you know more than the health care providers on the frontline? What I know is that you are and arrogant, uniformed ass  who only making things worse. Why don't spell out exactly what you policy would be for combatting Cove and why. Give it a shot since you are so fucking smart. A stable genius I bet.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> You answered with shit I never said, dope.





Hutch Starskey said:


> Your entire understanding of how vaccines work is wrong. Your education is not my responsibility. Bigly is a Trump word. Where were you the last five or six years?


here, I answered this


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


>


see


----------



## jc456 (Aug 4, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> What the fuck are you bloviating about now? Do you even know. So not only do you know more than the CDC, you know more than the health care providers on the frontline? What I know is that you are and arrogant, uniformed ass  who only making things worse. Why don't spell out exactly what you policy would be for combatting Cove and why. Give it a shot since you are so fucking smart. A stable genius I bet.


what's hilarious it's like you think you know!!!! what is it you personally know?  Where is your research?


----------



## HappyJoy (Aug 4, 2021)

kaz said:


> You need to start paying attention to what's going on around you


I do. I'm vaccinated and I don't have an issue with the status of the vaccines. Your point is well, not correct.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> here, I answered this


Where I asked no question about vaccines?


----------



## kaz (Aug 4, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> I do. I'm vaccinated and I don't have an issue with the status of the vaccines. Your point is well, not correct.



Then what is the problem that you're coming to me all hot and bothered that you ... agree with what I said.

Stick up your ass?


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> what's hilarious it's like you think you know!!!! what is it you personally know?  Where is your research?


Where is my research? Where the fuck is your research. Neither of us are researcher so cut the fucking gaslight bullshit

I read the reseach . If you read it at all, and I don't think that you do but if you do you are not comprehening it and you just dismiss it as bullshit because it does not fit your warped views. I am sick of your willfull stupidity
\And again you did not answer my question: Why don't spell out exactly what you policy would be for combatting Cove and why. You can't. You have no fucking clue.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> report they're full.   They aren't, they won't ever be.  You know why? The percentages don't figure in the math.  you all don't do math, I know.


I asked you a fucking question That is not an answer. Wait until the ICUs are full before what?> Before we take steps to stop the spread. Are you really that stupid or are you just trolling and playing a moronic game here.


----------



## otto105 (Aug 4, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> I asked you a fucking question That is not an answer. Wait until the ICUs are full before what?> Before we take steps to stop the spread. Are you really that stupid or are you just trolling and playing a moronic game here.


He’s that stupid.


----------



## Jim H - VA USA (Aug 4, 2021)

Fauci knew this all along.  The influenza vaccine has been around for decades, yet it's only about 50% effective in a good year, and less than 20% effective in a bad one.

Want to know why they are pushing the vax so hard?  Moderna stock was at $20 per share in December 2019.  It is now at $420.

Like other coronaviruses that cause flu-like symptoms - there are four that most people acquire at some point in their lives - COVID will be with us forever, and Big Pharma, along with Fauci, will make millions.


Fauci now says he fears vaccine-resistant COVID variant could emerge this fall and warns US is 'in trouble' - one day after saying the nation is on same 'trajectory' as UK where cases are in DECLINE
​
*Dr Anthony Fauci said he fears that if COVID-19 spreads enough it can mutate into a vaccine-resistant variant*
*He also predicts that with the current growth of cases, the U.S. could be recording 200,000 new infections a day within a few weeks*
*His remarks come just one day after telling the Center for Strategic and International Studies that the U.S. is on a 'similar trajectory' to that of the UK*
*The UK reported its lowest number of COVID cases on Tuesday*
*More Americans are now reporting that they are pessimistic about the pandemic as a return to normal has been delayed by fourth wave*
*The Indian 'Delta' variant-fueled case surge has cause daily cases to increase by 350% over the past month*









						Fauci fears vaccine-resistant Covid variant, cases may hit 200k/day
					

Dr Anthony Fauci fears that a new, vaccine resistant, COVID variant could form this fall is cases continue to grow. He also fears new daily cases could double to 200,000 a day in the coming weeks.




					www.dailymail.co.uk
				




*



*


----------



## j-mac (Aug 4, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> I guess you don't understand that I am not a member of your culture. I am a German. I don't have any idea what you like to say with this sentence. In films you see sometimes that a doctor asks during an operation a nurse to dab away sweat using wadding or cellulose material. I don't have any idea whether exists methods to solve this problem with a kind of bandana,  because often doctors also have to use additional a kind of bandana with special instruments.



So, in Germany they have no surgical masks?


----------



## j-mac (Aug 4, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Just ordered another batch of KN95s. Easily obtainable at a reasonable cost.


Good for you…Wearing one in your home now?


----------



## otto105 (Aug 4, 2021)

Jim H - VA USA said:


> Fauci knew this all along.  The influenza vaccine has been around for decades, yet it's only about 50% effective in a good year, and less than 20% effective in a bad one.
> 
> Want to know why they are pushing the vax so hard?  Moderna stock was at $20 per share in December 2019.  It is now at $420.
> 
> ...


Jimmy, come on…who makes hydrochloride for the former president……?


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 4, 2021)

jc456 said:


> I doubt the child had Wuhan, +



Had what? ... good grief: How do call the spanish influenca? The worst crime the USA ever had done?



jc456 said:


> ike everything else, miss diagnosed and turned into a chinese fire drill



Chinese what? "Brandschutzübung"? What kind of nonsense is this now? Why do you like to speak with me?



jc456 said:


> for the family to get more people tested.



?



jc456 said:


> Too funny, all you people believe this nonsense.



Which nonsense? What do you speak about?



jc456 said:


> It seems people dropped their brains at the funny farm.



By the way: I got a delivery of nearly new exchange brains from my good old friend Frankenstein. Do you need one? Sometimes a brain transplantation helps a lot - or a visit in a liberary and a date with a multifaceted lady without wasteline and many pages. Such ladies need people who have the ability "to listen". Ever heard about what this is and from what strange language it migrated to the USA?


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 4, 2021)

j-mac said:


> So, in Germany they have no surgical masks?


?

"Bandana", "surgical mask" - what about do you think in this context? What about just simple to say what you like to say? ...


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 4, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> ?
> 
> "Bandana", "surgical mask" - what about do you think in this context? What about just simle to say what you like to say?


Something is better than nothing for common pandemic defense.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 4, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Something is better than nothing for common pandemic defense.



Okay. But this has also nothing to do with this what I said and what he answered.


----------



## esme (Aug 4, 2021)

theHawk said:


> 93+% of people who get WuFlu do not get seriously ill.
> 
> So what you are saying is the vaccine isn’t anymore effective than our normal immune system.


In the past year, 600,000 Americans died of Covid 19.  In a normal year, at most 60,000 Americans die of the flu.  This is not the flu.  When people started getting the vaccine, Covid deaths slowed down, slowed way down. The vaccine does work.


----------



## Juicin (Aug 4, 2021)

esme said:


> In the past year, 600,000 Americans died of Covid 19.  In a normal year, at most 60,000 Americans die of the flu.  This is not the flu.  When people started getting the vaccine, Covid deaths slowed down, slowed way down. The vaccine does work.



There is no doubt that some of what we called covid deaths was the flu

Influenza did not just disappear

It's doctors weren't diagnosing correctly. Because they were using very over sensitive PCR tests with a massive false positive rate.









						Correlation Between 3790 Quantitative Polymerase Chain Reaction–Positives Samples and Positive Cell Cultures, Including 1941 Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 Isolates
					

TO THE EDITOR—The outbreak of the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic due to severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) was declared




					academic.oup.com
				




So while I'm pretty sure there is a nasty cold running around. Our counts are most certainly in doubt. You could easily slash 50k+ deaths off our count. Possibly much more than that. PCR tests at the cycles we run them are vastly vastly over sensitive. The upside to that is. We never miss a case. The downside is there is a HUGE false positive rate.

So all the other colds like rhino viruses, flu, and other random shit killed people last year. We just didn't know it

Whatever the final number the CDC says is for this year. Will be revised in later years.


----------



## Colin norris (Aug 5, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> They admit the vaccine doesn’t stop the spread, but they want everyone to get it and “will make life as tough as possible for the unvaccinated”
> 
> These are crimes against humanity and go against Nuremberg Laws



That's a bit dramatic. They are not withdrawing your freedom to not have it. If you chose to die from it, That's your choice and no one should stop that. 

As for crimes against humanity, I'll doubt 
A trial would give Biden jail for saving lives. 
That ridiculous statement just shows how hate filled you are for democrats. 

For all you godbotherers,  your recalcitrance reminds of your favourite excuse to follow religion by using Pascalls wager. Why take the chance in case you are wrong? If you're not, what have you lost? 

I have said many times, your objection us based on the fact a Democrat is asking you to get it and you ignorantly assume it is a socialist take over or something.  How pathetic.


----------



## HappyJoy (Aug 5, 2021)

kaz said:


> Then what is the problem that you're coming to me all hot and bothered that you ... agree with what I said.
> 
> Stick up your ass?


I didn't agree with anything you've said.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 5, 2021)

Juicin said:


> There is no doubt that some of what we called covid deaths was the flu
> 
> Influenza did not just disappear



Somehow it did last year. The worldwide influenza wave 2020/21 did just simple not happen because of  the  preventing actions against covid-19. Here in Germany in the season 2019/20 we had in 2020 in week #6 22,560 in #8 20,258 in #10 25,270 registrated infections with the influenza virus. In season 2020/21 we had in 2021 in week #6 16 in week #8 9 and in week #10 16 registrated infections with the influenza virus. Our medical system was always 100% working - during the whole pandemy up to now - and it will still do so (as long as this is the will of god) with the power of wonderful people, who did do - and do - a great job.


*Die wahren Helden*

_Fünf Uhr morgens. Sie schleppt sich zum Bus.
Sie fühlt sich krank, doch sie weiß genau: Sie muss.
Sie ist Krankenschwester auf der Intensivstation.
Und die Patienten warten schon.
Er gehört im Altenheim zum Pflegepersonal.
Sein Tagesdienstplan ist hektisch und brutal.
Doch so gut es geht, nimmt er sich für jeden Zeit
und hält für alle ein Lächeln bereit.
Selten Lob, wenig Kohle, kein Glamour und kein Glanz,
doch das Herz am rechten Fleck, und zwar voll und ganz.

Ihr seid die wahren Helden,
auch wenn euch niemand applaudiert.
Ihr seid die wahren Helden,
weil ohne euch nichts funktioniert.

Das Baby schreit. Die große Schwester weint.
Der Blick zum Hof, in den die Sonne nie scheint.
Mama kocht Nudeln, mehr war heut' nicht drin,
und sie sagt doch voller Stolz: „Wir kriegen das schon hin!“
Der Vater weg, ganz plötzlich abgehaun.
Sie schafft's den Kleinen eine Welt zu baun,
in der sie Liebe und Vertrauen spüren,
und sie durch diese harte Zeit zu führen.
Einen Schritt vorm Abgrund, am Ende ihrer Kraft.
Oft weiß sie selbst nicht, wie sie's schafft.

Ihr seid die wahren Helden…

Er pflegt seinen Vater, und das seit Jahren schon.
An jedem einzelnen Tag, kein Dankeschön als Lohn.
Ihn mal zu pflegen, war für ihn immer klar,
auch wenn ihr Verhältnis mehr als schwierig war.
Jetzt geht er mit ihm durch seine letzte Zeit
und nennt das eine Selbstverständlichkeit.

Ihr seid die wahren Helden…

Wahre Helden gibt es überall, doch sicher nicht
in Hochglanzmagazinen und im hellen Rampenlicht,
auch nicht auf der Leinwand und nicht bei RTL,
doch sie sind viel stärker und verschwinden nicht so schnell.

Denn die wahren Helden sehn in Wirklichkeit ganz anders aus.
Die wahren Helden wachsen täglich über sich hinaus._

*Daniel "Dän" Dickopf, 2015*


----------



## j-mac (Aug 5, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> ?
> 
> "Bandana", "surgical mask" - what about do you think in this context? What about just simple to say what you like to say? ...


Masks are ineffective.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 5, 2021)

Jim H - VA USA said:


> Want to know why they are pushing the vax so hard? Moderna stock was at $20 per share in December 2019. It is now at $420.


Or maybe they just want to save lives


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Aug 5, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Somehow it did last year. The worldwide influenza wave 2020/21 did just simple not happen because of  the  preventing actions against covid-19. Here in Germany in the season 2019/20 we had in 2020 in week #6 22,560 in #8 20,258 in #10 25,270 registrated infections with the influenza virus. In season 2020/21 we had in 2021 in week #6 16 in week #8 9 and in week #10 16 registrated infections with the influenza virus. Our medical system was always 100% working - during the whole pandemy up to now - and it will still do so (as long as this is the will of god) with the power of wonderful people, who did do - and do - a great job.
> 
> 
> *Die wahren Helden*
> ...


In Nazi Germany ‘preventative actions against Covid ‘ means beating the crap out of senior citizens.

They beat the Covid out of them.

Hitler would be proud


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Aug 5, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Or maybe they just want to save lives


You wish 1/2 of us were all dead.

Eat shit


----------



## LibertyKid (Aug 5, 2021)

jc456 said:


> still waiting on a transcript from a hospital that says they're full.  tick tock!!!!!


THe hospital system that my wife works in has never been over ran or over burdened.  At all.  Because they thought they were, they stopped all voluntary procedures.  Because they did that, they wound up having to furlough some of the nursing staff because they weren't getting the influx of covid patients they thought they would.


----------



## LibertyKid (Aug 5, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


>


What is wrong with what I said.  Help me out here.


----------



## Adrenochrome Junkie (Aug 5, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> THe hospital system that my wife works in has never been over ran or over burdened.  At all.  Because they thought they were, they stopped all voluntary procedures.  Because they did that, they wound up having to furlough some of the nursing staff because they weren't getting the influx of covid patients they thought they would.


How do all these hospitals handle all of these dying Covid patients after firing 1/3 of their staff for not accepting an experimental vaccine?

They’re short staffed and at peak capacity. It’s amazing how they do it


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 5, 2021)

j-mac said:


> Masks are ineffective.



I don't see any sense in such a statement. Even if masks would be ineffective - what to say is nonsense, if someone takes a look that doctors use durting an operation surgical masks in front of an open body to take care not to infect this body.

A typical error in reasoning of nearly all US-Americans is "egocentrism". If you seee someone with a mask then you think autmataically thsi is anditois who treis to help the own person with a wrong method - but in other countries of the world to wear masks shows automatically that this people like to protect others. They give the signal "I take care not to infect you".

Asides from all scientific opinions and all political opinsions I see in the wearing of masks a good manners in sense of the philosophy of Freiher von Knigge. Not to wear masks helps not anything - but to wear masks helps always everyone. Psychologically it makes oneself clear to remember an existing danger - and  for tothers it is ths signal "I foght aganst thei pandemy and I like to protect you". Both fasctors are independent from any opinion about masks and politics a factor to show that we still live in the best of all possible worlds - even in case a pandemic tries to shock us. For a whole society adn whole mankind means this signal, this color: We will fight together and we will win!


----------



## jc456 (Aug 5, 2021)

LibertyKid said:


> THe hospital system that my wife works in has never been over ran or over burdened.  At all.  Because they thought they were, they stopped all voluntary procedures.  Because they did that, they wound up having to furlough some of the nursing staff because they weren't getting the influx of covid patients they thought they would.


yep same with every other hospital in the country.  Nursing furloughs were very high last year.  It's why I never believed shit.  Damn man, we had nurses picketing to get nurses back on the job just to do normal work.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 5, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> I don't see any sense in such a statement. Even if masks would be ineffective - what to say is nonsense, if someone takes a look that doctors use durting an operation surgical masks in front of an open body to take care not to infect this body.


all bullshit.  All of it.  They wear the masks to prevent them from being hit with blood.  HIV type shit.  fk I hate idiots like you that prance around thinking you know something you know nothing about.









						“If masks don’t work, then why do surgeons wear them?”
					

Based on extensive review and analysis, there is no question in my mind that healthy people should not be wearing surgical or cloth masks.  – BY JIM MEEHAN, MD



					inlandnwreport.com
				




_The CoVID-19 pandemic is about viral transmission. Surgical and cloth masks do nothing to prevent viral transmission. We should all realize by now that face masks have never been shown to prevent or protect against viral transmission. Which is exactly why they have never been recommended for use during the seasonal flu outbreak, epidemics, or previous pandemics._

and

_If you can’t help but believe and trust the weak retrospective observational studies and confused public health “authorities” lying to you about the benefits and completely ignoring the risks of medical masks, then you should at least reject the illogical anti-science recommendation to block only 2 of the 3 ports of entry for viral diseases. Masks only cover the mouth and nose. They do not protect the eyes._


----------



## pknopp (Aug 5, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Or maybe they just want to save lives



 Then stop the creation of these viruses.


----------



## OldFlame (Aug 5, 2021)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Are you ever not a dumbfuck?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you really this stupid???   It's hype!!  The article stated that 57 people were hospitalized, that's .06% of a population of 89.540+ people in that area.  The chancellor of the hospital 'believes' it's 'on track' to be the 'deadliest' wave in Arkansas?? WTF??  He 'believes'?  What the hell does that even mean?? Do you ever stop to look at the language used in these pieces of bullshit propaganda?  What does 'deadliest' mean?   Compared to what?  How many people were hospitalized and died in the past?  You notice the article just doesn't bother to even tell you that, you just take their word for it... lol  The article also said not one word about anyone dying, but still it's 'deadly'.... give me a break!!


----------



## jc456 (Aug 5, 2021)

This one is up my alley and states what I have stated all along, if masks work, why didn't the virus slow down after everyone started wearing them?









						Masking: A Careful Review of the Evidence
					

"The predominant conclusion is that face masks have a very important role in places such as hospitals, but there exists very little evidence of widespread benefit for members of the public (adults or children) as well as evidence that masking is truly an ineffectual way to manage...




					www.aier.org
				




_Back in August 2020, a survey by Pew indicated that 85% of Americans wore masks when in public all or most of the time. So, the public has been using masks extensively. We thus set the table in this review on the effectiveness of masking for Covid by asking, if these surgical and cloth masks are effective, why did incidence of the virus (or actual disease; and they’re not the same thing) escalate so rapidly despite widespread use? Why is there no evidence across US States and global nations showing that when use is mandated (or not mandated given the general uptake of masking by the public), this contributes to reduced viral transmission? Is there any such evidence?_


----------



## OldFlame (Aug 5, 2021)

esme said:


> In the past year, 600,000 Americans died of Covid 19.  In a normal year, at most 60,000 Americans die of the flu.  This is not the flu.  When people started getting the vaccine, Covid deaths slowed down, slowed way down. The vaccine does work.



600,000 died supposedly 'with' Covid, not 'from' Covid, and I don't even believe that because their 'tests' were set at a ridiculously high sensitivity that would have tested positive for a damn cold.  The CDC reported at one point that only 6% of the 'death toll' for Covid were actually from Covid, that's 36,000 people, and there were hardly any 'flu' deaths anywhere this year.  Yet people continue to just ignore the facts, and carry on with their hype. Sad.


----------



## OldFlame (Aug 5, 2021)

Juicin said:


> There is no doubt that some of what we called covid deaths was the flu
> 
> Influenza did not just disappear
> 
> ...



Exactly...


----------



## Lesh (Aug 5, 2021)

OldFlame said:


> 600,000 died supposedly 'with' Covid, not 'from' Covid, and I don't even believe that because their 'tests' were set at a ridiculously high sensitivity that would have tested positive for a damn cold.  The CDC reported at one point that only 6% of the 'death toll' for Covid were actually from Covid, that's 36,000 people, and there were hardly any 'flu' deaths anywhere this year.  Yet people continue to just ignore the facts, and carry on with their hype. Sad.


OH LOOK> WE HAVE A NEW Q KOOK


----------



## OldFlame (Aug 5, 2021)

Lesh said:


> OH LOOK> WE HAVE A NEW Q KOOK


I had to go look up what the hell that even meant whenever it started to be spewed by leftist assholes like you on this board, outside of this board I've never heard of it. Idiot.


----------



## CowboyTed (Aug 5, 2021)

OldFlame said:


> 600,000 died supposedly 'with' Covid, not 'from' Covid, and I don't even believe that because their 'tests' were set at a ridiculously high sensitivity that would have tested positive for a damn cold.  The CDC reported at one point that only 6% of the 'death toll' for Covid were actually from Covid, that's 36,000 people, and there were hardly any 'flu' deaths anywhere this year.  Yet people continue to just ignore the facts, and carry on with their hype. Sad.


Fucking Hell...

Every fucking week from you idiots...


Can you explain the Excess Deaths during the period... Was there a secret reason why about 750,000 extra people died during the time period?





Now tell us the mysterious ways all these people died... 

(By the way I am going with the way that had Hospitals full and refrigerator trucks for bodies..)

*Please explain this to us....*


----------



## jc456 (Aug 5, 2021)

Juicin said:


> There is no doubt that some of what we called covid deaths was the flu
> 
> Influenza did not just disappear
> 
> ...


actually, they were using contaminated swabs.


----------



## kaz (Aug 5, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> I do. I'm vaccinated and I don't have an issue with the status of the vaccines. Your point is well, not correct.



Yes, your way is to get all putt hurt even when you don't disagree with what anyone said


----------



## jc456 (Aug 5, 2021)

CowboyTed said:


> Fucking Hell...
> 
> Every fucking week from you idiots...
> 
> ...


it didn't happen.  daily death rates did not increase.  The CDC went back at the beginning of 2021 and rewrote that excessive death crap.  I love it.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 5, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> They admit the vaccine doesn’t stop the spread, but they want everyone to get it and “will make life as tough as possible for the unvaccinated”


You seem to be another  one who has trouble processing information. You filter out what you do not want to hear and distort the message to fit your idiology

They did not "admit" any such thing. They said that those who were vaccinated and who experience rare breakthrough infections can carry a virul load equivelan to that of an unvaxxed person and tranmit it to others

The part that you're ignoring is that very few vaccinated people get the virus at all. So the fact is that the vaccine most certainly stops the spread in most cases


----------



## OldFlame (Aug 5, 2021)

jc456 said:


> it didn't happen.  daily death rates did not increase.  The CDC went back at the beginning of 2021 and rewrote that excessive death crap.  I love it.


Yes, I watched them month to month all thru 2020, there was hardly any variation from 2019, and then miraculously they changed at the beginning of 2021, imagine that!


----------



## Lesh (Aug 5, 2021)

CowboyTed said:


> Fucking Hell...
> 
> Every fucking week from you idiots...
> 
> ...


Not only that… but this is not a US phenomenon.it’s happening around the world. That’s one giant conspiracy


----------



## Lesh (Aug 5, 2021)

OldFlame said:


> Yes, I watched them month to month all thru 2020, there was hardly any variation from 2019, and then miraculously they changed at the beginning of 2021, imagine that!


So post a graph


----------



## jc456 (Aug 5, 2021)

OldFlame said:


> Yes, I watched them month to month all thru 2020, there was hardly any variation from 2019, and then miraculously they changed at the beginning of 2021, imagine that!


yep, I know.  I did exactly the same thing. In fact, the links I used from the CDC were all pulled down.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 5, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> They did not "admit" any such thing.


who is they?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 5, 2021)

Lesh said:


> So post a graph


dude, they were all removed in January.  You don't follow the posts too well do you?


----------



## Lesh (Aug 5, 2021)

jc456 said:


> dude, they were all removed in January.  You don't follow the posts too well do you?


So you're pulling shit outta your ass as usual


----------



## otto105 (Aug 5, 2021)

Juicin said:


> There is no doubt that some of what we called covid deaths was the flu
> 
> Influenza did not just disappear
> 
> ...


Any revision would likely be to increase COVID-19 deaths due to undercounting.


----------



## otto105 (Aug 5, 2021)

OldFlame said:


> Are you really this stupid???   It's hype!!  The article stated that 57 people were hospitalized, that's .06% of a population of 89.540+ people in that area.  The chancellor of the hospital 'believes' it's 'on track' to be the 'deadliest' wave in Arkansas?? WTF??  He 'believes'?  What the hell does that even mean?? Do you ever stop to look at the language used in these pieces of bullshit propaganda?  What does 'deadliest' mean?   Compared to what?  How many people were hospitalized and died in the past?  You notice the article just doesn't bother to even tell you that, you just take their word for it... lol  The article also said not one word about anyone dying, but still it's 'deadly'.... give me a break!!


Stupid would be the previous post. I'm the comparison that you can't comprehend to previous points in the pandemic.

You most be from lower educated Arkansas.


----------



## Juicin (Aug 5, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Somehow it did last year. The worldwide influenza wave 2020/21 did just simple not happen because of  the  preventing actions against covid-19. Here in Germany in the season 2019/20 we had in 2020 in week #6 22,560 in #8 20,258 in #10 25,270 registrated infections with the influenza virus. In season 2020/21 we had in 2021 in week #6 16 in week #8 9 and in week #10 16 registrated infections with the influenza virus. Our medical system was always 100% working - during the whole pandemy up to now - and it will still do so (as long as this is the will of god) with the power of wonderful people, who did do - and do - a great job.
> 
> 
> *Die wahren Helden*
> ...



Did you read what I linked?

There is only a 3% culture rate at 35 cycles, the stated preferred cycle rate 

Which means that well over 50% of our cases could be false positives. I don't know what German testers are diong. But if their cycle rate is above 30 like ours. The tests are borderline useless from a data perspective.


----------



## Juicin (Aug 5, 2021)

otto105 said:


> Any revision would likely be to increase COVID-19 deaths due to undercounting.



Did you read what I linked?

There is a 3% culutre rate at a cycle of 35 on those PCR tests. Which means that well over 50% of them are false positives


----------



## Juicin (Aug 5, 2021)

jc456 said:


> actually, they were using contaminated swabs.



At cycle rates of 35 there is no need for that

Only 3% of the samples can be "cultured out" in a petri dish

Which means even if you were sending in random samples of 100% covid free people you would get a huge positive rate.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 5, 2021)

Juicin said:


> At cycle rates of 35 there is no need for that
> 
> Only 3% of the samples can be "cultured out" in a petri dish
> 
> Which means even if you were sending in random samples of 100% covid free people you would get a huge positive rate.


how are they determining which variant of covid they are dealing with?


----------



## Juicin (Aug 5, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> how are they determining which variant of covid they are dealing with?



They will take ask testers for random samples. Then extrapolate that out to the whole population

Like a poll

So you get 1,000 samples, do some math to try to guess what that means for the rest of us


----------



## otto105 (Aug 5, 2021)

Juicin said:


> Did you read what I linked?
> 
> There is a 3% culutre rate at a cycle of 35 on those PCR tests. Which means that well over 50% of them are false positives


No, no there is not.


----------



## Juicin (Aug 5, 2021)

otto105 said:


> No, no there is not.



Yes there is otto

You should have known this long ago.

Anyone who isn't extremely intimately aware of how testing works is an idiot. And unqualified to speak on this quite frankly

That should have been your first question last year

All our policy, projections, and beliefs about this virus are based on those very very flawed PCR tests. Which aren't even meant to be a diagnostic as we're using them.

You have no fucking idea what is going on. Keep your mouth shut if you don't want to learn. What kind of fucking German son can't figure this out? You don't even need 90 IQ to wrap your head around this.


----------



## OldFlame (Aug 5, 2021)

otto105 said:


> Stupid would be the previous post. I'm the comparison that you can't comprehend to previous points in the pandemic.
> 
> You most be from lower educated Arkansas.


'I'm the comparison that you can't comprehend to previous points in the pandemic.'  What does that even mean?  Is English your first language?

Thanks for showing us all what a bigot you are, you loving, compassionate, inclusive leftist.... lol


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 5, 2021)

Juicin said:


> They will take ask testers for random samples. Then extrapolate that out to the whole population
> 
> Like a poll
> 
> So you get 1,000 samples, do some math to try to guess what that means for the rest of us


From my understanding, they have to identify the gnome to know what variant it is. The pathogen has already been sequenced.


----------



## otto105 (Aug 5, 2021)

Juicin said:


> Yes there is otto
> 
> You should have known this long ago.
> 
> ...


Because you're wrong about what your posting about. Try this instead of some wingnut website as a source of information.

Diagnostic Performance of an Antigen Test ...


----------



## Juicin (Aug 5, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> From my understanding, they have to identify the gnome to know what variant it is. The pathogen has already been sequenced.



Look i dont' know that they actually do it.

But in theory that's what they claim to do. And that's how you would do it.

I'm not there. I don't know. I have not heard anyone in those labs speak publicly to say they sequenced this or that.


----------



## Juicin (Aug 5, 2021)

otto105 said:


> Because you're wrong about what your posting about. Try this instead of some wingnut website as a source of information.
> 
> Diagnostic Performance of an Antigen Test ...



I linked you a peer reviewed study of the relevant cycle rates and their connection to the rona

Skimming that CDC bullshit, it in no where says what the culture rates are.

crtl + f culture, nothing.

THE CDC IS THE STATE. THEY DO NOT GET TO DEFINE ANYTHING. ACADEMIA DEFINES TRUTH, NEVER THE STATE

GERMAN

God damn

"the cdc says so"

So? Fucking retard. It's an academic question. One that should be open to peer review. Like what I linked you. Actual relevant data not the CDC's bullshit supposition.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 5, 2021)

Viral mutations and variants in the United States are routinely monitored through sequence-based surveillance, laboratory studies, and epidemiological investigations.








						Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)
					

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.




					www.cdc.gov


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 5, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> You seem to be another  one who has trouble processing information. You filter out what you do not want to hear and distort the message to fit your idiology
> 
> They did not "admit" any such thing. They said that those who were vaccinated and who experience rare breakthrough infections can carry a virul load equivelan to that of an unvaxxed person and tranmit it to others
> 
> The part that you're ignoring is that very few vaccinated people get the virus at all. So the fact is that the vaccine most certainly stops the spread in most cases


You disagree??  Adrenochrome Junkie

Defend yourself then


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 5, 2021)

jc456 said:


> all bullshit.  All of it.



Search for someone who is able to teach you what "to think" means.



jc456 said:


> They wear the masks to prevent them from being hit with blood.



I don't have any idea where such an absurde idea comes from. Doctors try during an operation not to breathe into an open body. That's why they use masks.



jc456 said:


> HIV type shit.



What has aids now to do with this?



jc456 said:


> fk I hate idiots like you



Whom do you love? No one?



jc456 said:


> that prance



¿prance? = tänzeln, paradieren
Thanks. A very nice word.



jc456 said:


> around thinking you know something you know nothing about.



?



jc456 said:


> “If masks don’t work, then why do surgeons wear them?”
> 
> 
> Based on extensive review and analysis, there is no question in my mind that healthy people should not be wearing surgical or cloth masks.  – BY JIM MEEHAN, MD
> ...



What's perhaps really your opinion if it is not only politcal propaganda in which you believe without any real reason to do so. The experts in the world say something else. But that's unimportant, if you read and tried to understand what I said. You anyway lost the most important moments, when you was able to fight. But it's not over yet.




jc456 said:


> _We should all realize by now that face masks have never been shown to prevent or protect against viral transmission. Which is exactly why they have never been recommended for use during the seasonal flu outbreak, epidemics, or previous pandemics._
> 
> and
> 
> _If you can’t help but believe and trust the weak retrospective observational studies and confused public health “authorities” lying to you about the benefits and completely ignoring the risks of medical masks, then you should at least reject the illogical anti-science recommendation to block only 2 of the 3 ports of entry for viral diseases. Masks only cover the mouth and nose. They do not protect the eyes._



Okay. What did you personally do to fight infections with Sars-Co-V2 which are able to lead to the diseaese covid-19? In the USA died up to now mire tehn 600,000 peopel - many others will have serios probeömes because they were infected.

Here a graph:







What did you do at which date to stop this process - except to fight the fighters against Covod-19 ???


----------



## jc456 (Aug 5, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Search for someone who is able to teach you what "to think" means.


take your own advice.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 5, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> I don't have any idea where such an absurde idea comes from. Doctors try during an operation not to breathe into an open body. That's why they use masks.


do they ever reuse one?


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 5, 2021)

Juicin said:


> Did you read what I linked?
> 
> There is only a 3% culture rate at 35 cycles, the stated preferred cycle rate
> 
> Which means that well over 50% of our cases could be false positives. I don't know what German testers are diong.



Their job.



Juicin said:


> But if their cycle rate is above 30 like ours. The tests are borderline useless from a data perspective.



Many things were useless which we did do during this pandemic - we lost about 60,000 people without any real need to have to lose them for example - but this was "learning by doing". The ´main mistake was to think covid-19 had been more harmless than it really was.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 5, 2021)

jc456 said:


> do they ever reuse one?


No.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 5, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> No.


so why are we? you still don't get it. you be too stupid son.  Yoo, do you protect your eyes?  if not, the mask is useless.  It doesn't stop a virus anyway,


----------



## Juicin (Aug 5, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Their job.
> 
> 
> 
> Many things were useless which we did do during this pandemic - we lost about 60,000 people without any real need to have to lose them for example - but this was "learning by doing". The ´main mistake was to think covid-19 had been more harmless than it really was.



What does any of this have to do with the numbers being skewed?

And it being unknown if influenza was a big factor.

And we've known how PCR tests work for a long time....They were never supposed to be used as a diagnostic in any context.

Those numbers can only come down. And the attribution of other illnesses can only go up. We were calling all respiratory problems covid because of these terribly inaccurate "tests"

The fact you don't know what the PCR rate used in german labs is says all you need to know. You don't know anything about the pandemic.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 5, 2021)

otto105 said:


> Stupid would be the previous post. I'm the comparison that you can't comprehend to previous points in the pandemic.
> 
> You most be from lower educated Arkansas.


yes he most!!!! hahahahahahahahaahaha too fking funny.  I love it.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 5, 2021)

jc456 said:


> take your own advice.


Sorry - but you are not able to think -otherwise you would not say such a bullshit. Sometimes "to think" needs some time.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 5, 2021)

Juicin said:


> What does any of this have to do with the numbers being skewed?
> 
> And it being unknown if influenza was a big factor.
> 
> ...


no comment


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 5, 2021)

jc456 said:


> so why are we? you still don't get it. you be too stupid son.  Yoo, do you protect your eyes?  if not, the mask is useless.  It doesn't stop a virus anyway,


no comment


----------



## jc456 (Aug 5, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Sorry - but you are not able to think -otherwise you would not say such a bullshit. Sometimes "to think" needs some time.


the irony in your post is noted.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 5, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> no comment


of course not, because you have no fking clue.  You are a parrot, and can't think for yourself.  You fail your own advice.  To think!!!!!









						“If masks don’t work, then why do surgeons wear them?”
					

Based on extensive review and analysis, there is no question in my mind that healthy people should not be wearing surgical or cloth masks.  – BY JIM MEEHAN, MD



					inlandnwreport.com


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 5, 2021)

jc456 said:


> the irony in your post is noted.


no comment


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 5, 2021)

jc456 said:


> of course not, because you have no fking clue.  You are a parrot, and can't think for yourself.  You fail your own advice.  To think!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


no comment


----------



## jc456 (Aug 5, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> no comment


Just like every other post


----------



## otto105 (Aug 5, 2021)

Juicin said:


> There is no doubt that some of what we called covid deaths was the flu
> 
> Influenza did not just disappear
> 
> ...


Dude, that bullshit. It's not what the article states.


----------



## tahuyaman (Aug 5, 2021)

I've never seen a situation where the goal posts are continually in motion as they are with everything concerning the COVID issue.


----------



## Juicin (Aug 5, 2021)

otto105 said:


> Dude, that bullshit. It's not what the article states.



Yea it doesn't say anything about culture rates

I gave you the data

They had supposition

How you test them is you culture them out in a fucking PETRI DISH

If you can't get it to culture out. Then you're signalling a higher false positive rate. A 3% culture rate implies a MASSIVE false positive rate. 

That's just reality. Live with it. Fucking absurd i'm even debating this. 

None of you want to know the truth.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 5, 2021)

tahuyaman said:


> I've never seen a situation where the goal posts are continually in motion as they are with everything concerning the COVID issue.


It is a learning experience.


----------



## tahuyaman (Aug 5, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> It is a learning experience.


The learning is minute by minute and goes back and forth in this case.    This virus response is and has been from the start guided by politics and not science.

A coronavirus is not an unknown. We’ve been dealing ith them for decades.  We always knew how they are transmitted and spread.   There’s no valid reason for this constant moving of the goalposts.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 5, 2021)

tahuyaman said:


> The learning is minute by minute and goes back and forth in this case.    This virus response is and has been from the start guided by politics and not science.


In modern broadband times.  And, it is right-wingers who are more political and resorting to more conspiracy and false information to obstruct more effective countermeasures against the pandemic.


----------



## tahuyaman (Aug 5, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> In modern broadband times.  And, it is right-wingers who are more political and resorting to more conspiracy and false information to obstruct more effective countermeasures against the pandemic.


That was completely non responsive to my comment which you quoted.


----------



## tahuyaman (Aug 5, 2021)

Could this be one reason some people won’t get vaccinated?


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 5, 2021)

tahuyaman said:


> Could this be one reason some people won’t get vaccinated?


No.


----------



## tahuyaman (Aug 5, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> No.


Why not? Cuomo told people that the vaccines can’t be trusted. Didn’t people take that seriously?


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 5, 2021)

tahuyaman said:


> Why not? Cuomo told people that the vaccines can’t be trusted. Didn’t people take that seriously?


Why would the FDA want to politicize the approval process?  We already know, if not for fallacy right-wingers would have no arguments at all.


----------



## tahuyaman (Aug 5, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Why would the FDA want to politicize the approval process?  We already know, if not for fallacy right-wingers would have no arguments at all.


Are you serious?


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 5, 2021)

jc456 said:


> Just like every other post



Who is not vaccinated will be infected with Sars-Co-V2. This is only a question of time. And you will kill people who trust in you with your proud stupidity. A tragedy.


----------



## j-mac (Aug 6, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> I don't see any sense in such a statement. Even if masks would be ineffective - what to say is nonsense, if someone takes a look that doctors use durting an operation surgical masks in front of an open body to take care not to infect this body.
> 
> A typical error in reasoning of nearly all US-Americans is "egocentrism". If you seee someone with a mask then you think autmataically thsi is anditois who treis to help the own person with a wrong method - but in other countries of the world to wear masks shows automatically that this people like to protect others. They give the signal "I take care not to infect you".
> 
> Asides from all scientific opinions and all political opinsions I see in the wearing of masks a good manners in sense of the philosophy of Freiher von Knigge. Not to wear masks helps not anything - but to wear masks helps always everyone. Psychologically it makes oneself clear to remember an existing danger - and  for tothers it is ths signal "I foght aganst thei pandemy and I like to protect you". Both fasctors are independent from any opinion about masks and politics a factor to show that we still live in the best of all possible worlds - even in case a pandemic tries to shock us. For a whole society adn whole mankind means this signal, this color: We will fight together and we will win!


No. The simplest way I can put it is that wearing a cloth mask, or paper mask to stop a sub microscopic virus is like trying to stop a hoard of flys with a chain link fence.


----------



## j-mac (Aug 6, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Who is not vaccinated will be infected with Sars-Co-V2. This is only a question of time. And you will kill people who trust in you with your proud stupidity. A tragedy.


Then lock yourself in your home and retreat from living among us.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 6, 2021)

j-mac said:


> No. The simplest way I can put it is that wearing a cloth mask, or paper mask to stop a sub microscopic virus is like trying to stop a hoard of flys with a chain link fence.



Your points of view are totally uninteresting for me. Try to understand what I said here.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 6, 2021)

j-mac said:


> Then lock yourself in your home and retreat from living among us.



Any idea what for god gave you a brain? Aristotle for example thought it is for cooling the blood - what had been an excellent idea.


----------



## j-mac (Aug 6, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Your points of view are totally uninteresting for me. Try to understand what I said here.


I couldn't care any less about your virtue signaling.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 6, 2021)

j-mac - Here again my text - I corrected some misspelings:

_I don't see any sense in such a statement: Even if masks would be ineffective (- what to say is nonsense, if someone takes a look that doctors use during an operation surgical masks in front of an open body to take care not to infect this body).

A typical error in reasoning of nearly all US-Americans is "egocentrism". If you'll see someone with a mask then you'll think automatically this is an idiot who tries to help the own person with a wrong method - but in other countries of the world to wear masks shows automatically that this people like to protect others. They give the signal "I take care not to infect you!".

Asides from all scientific opinions and all political opinions I see in the wearing of masks a good manner in sense of the philosophy of Adolph Freiherr Knigge. Not to wear masks helps not anything - but to wear masks helps always everyone. Psychologically it makes oneself clear to remember an existing danger - and  for others it is the signal "I fight against the pandemic and I like to protect you". Both factors are independent from any opinion about masks and politics - they are a factor to show that we still live in the best of all possible worlds (Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz) - even in case a pandemic tries to shock us. For a whole society and whole mankind means this signal, this color: We will fight together and we will win!

_


----------



## j-mac (Aug 6, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Any idea what for god gave you a brain? Aristotle for example thought it is for cooling the blood - what had been an excellent idea.


Yeah ok, enjoy your paranoia.


----------



## Desperado (Aug 6, 2021)

Vaccinated people can spread covid, they can catch covid and they still have to wear masks  and social distance,,,,now tell me,  that the vaccine works  with a straight face


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 6, 2021)

j-mac said:


> Yeah ok, enjoy your paranoia.


Why do you say continously such stupid things? Why do you take care not to be taken serios?


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 6, 2021)

Desperado said:


> Vaccinated people can spread covid, they can catch covid and they still have to wear masks  and social distance,,,,now tell me,  that the vaccine works  with a straight face



Also in this case: True or wrong is unimportant (- although you did not notice what I said about this - what would also make you clear why to say so is a nonsense statement as long as you don't fill such a declaration with exact probabilities)

Logically if it would be true what you say here grows the chance to become infected with Sars-Co-V2. This is still only a question of time - in this scenario the time is shorter. So you had not to speak with me but to run now to get a vaccination - if you take serios covid-19. Even in case of seldom vaccination failures the progression of covid-19 is not so drastic - and as far as I know never anyone died here in Germany who was vaccinated and got covid-19. And in your scenario it makes also a big sense for vaccinated people to wear masks - on reason to give you yourself a better chance. They protect you!

It could really be a good idea from you to try to read and to try to understand what I said here in this thread. Independent from this logical game here it is totally wrong what you say about masks. Worldwide say the best experts something else!

Oh by the way: Our government here in Germany decided to stop the use of masks after winter in spring 2022 - although we did not have big problems in the last few month with this virus. But the use of masks has also different levels - depending on the risks.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 6, 2021)

tahuyaman said:


> Are you serious?


Yes.  Have any valid arguments?


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 6, 2021)

j-mac said:


> No. The simplest way I can put it is that wearing a cloth mask, or paper mask to stop a sub microscopic virus is like trying to stop a hoard of flys with a chain link fence.


Better masks at lower cost!


----------



## j-mac (Aug 6, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Why do you say continously such stupid things? Why do you take care not to be taken serios?


No, I think your premise of virtue signaling is ridiculous…if you’d like to wear a mask for the rest of your life so you can show others how compassionate you are, then go ahead. But, when you try to shame others into doing the same then they have the right to tell you to go take a leap off a short pier….

Simple as that…I don’t know what you are failing to grasp here…


----------



## j-mac (Aug 6, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Better masks at lower cost!


How about stop freaking out at a virus that you and I have a 99.97% chance of surviving?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 6, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Who is not vaccinated will be infected with Sars-Co-V2. This is only a question of time. And you will kill people who trust in you with your proud stupidity. A tragedy.


prove it


----------



## tahuyaman (Aug 6, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Yes.  Have any valid arguments?


I'm not going to repeat them over and over again.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 6, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Better masks at lower cost!


masks don't stop viruses.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 6, 2021)

tahuyaman said:


> I'm not going to repeat them over and over again.


that he'll just say something stupid about as well.  They have nothing to back their strategy.  We've figured it out.


----------



## tahuyaman (Aug 6, 2021)

Desperado said:


> Vaccinated people can spread covid, they can catch covid and they still have to wear masks  and social distance,,,,now tell me,  that the vaccine works  with a straight face


They are just like a flu shot.  They don't absolutely protect you, but they provide your immune system with a boost.  You can still get sick, but you do chances are it will be very mild.


----------



## tahuyaman (Aug 6, 2021)

jc456 said:


> masks don't stop viruses.


Masks are a symbolic gesture.  For a mask to work, it must be of a very particular medical grade and must be fitted properly. N These cloth masks people are wearing are nearly useless.  They certainly don't stop the tiny particles which spread this virus.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 6, 2021)

tahuyaman said:


> They are just like a flu shot.  They don't absolutely protect you, but they provide your immune system with a boost.  You can still get sick, but you do chances are it will be very mild.


my immune system needs no help.


----------



## tahuyaman (Aug 6, 2021)

jc456 said:


> my immune system needs no help.


That's not uncommon.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 6, 2021)

tahuyaman said:


> Masks area symbolic gesture.  For a mask to work, it must be of a very particular medical grade and must be fitted properly. N These cloth masks people are wearing are nearly useless.  They certainly don't stop the tiny particles which spread this virus.


they stop oxygen and hold in CO2


----------



## Jim H - VA USA (Aug 6, 2021)

35% of people hospitalized with the Delta variant were vaccinated in the UK​_
35% of hospitalized patients *delta version* *coronavirus* In *United Kingdom* According to data published by England’s Public Health Agency (PHE, in English) this Friday (6), they had a complete vaccination schedule, while 55% had received no dose.


Out of 1,467 patients infected since July 19 *delta version*, as confirmed by *genetic sequencing* Of their samples, 808 were not vaccinated and 512 had received two doses, the PHE elaborated in a statement....

In *United Kingdom*38.87 million people have already received the full immunization programme, according to the latest figures from the British Ministry of Health, representing 57.95% of the population._









						35% of people hospitalized with the Delta variant were vaccinated in the UK - The Commentary
					

35% of hospitalized patients delta version coronavirus In United Kingdom According to data published by England’s Public Health Agency (PHE, in English) this Friday (6),




					thedailyguardian.net
				




Delta is already breaking the vaccine.

Other variants in circulation include Delta-Plus, Gamma, Epsilon, Zeta, Eta, Theta, Iota, Kappa and Lambda.

Lambda seems to also be vaccine resistant.








						Lambda COVID Variant, Behind 1,000 Cases in U.S., Shows Vaccine Resistance
					

Japanese researchers have found that the Lambda variant is more resistant than the strain first identified in Wuhan.




					www.newsweek.com
				




It will only be a short while before the various variants make the vaccine less than 50% effective as is usually the case with the Influenza vaccine.

Thankfully,, the holier-than-thou preaching by the vaccinated will soon not have much weight, as the vaccine protection starts to wane at about 14 weeks, and many of the preachers are already beyond their expiration date.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 7, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Who is not vaccinated will be infected with Sars-Co-V2. This is only a question of time. And you will kill people who trust in you with your proud stupidity. A tragedy.



Desperado

With which of my words here do you exactly disagree on what reason?


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 7, 2021)

j-mac said:


> No, I think your premise of virtue signaling is ridiculous…if you’d like to wear a mask for the rest of your life so you can show others how compassionate you are, then go ahead. But, when you try to shame others into doing the same then they have the right to tell you to go take a leap off a short pier….
> 
> Simple as that…I don’t know what you are failing to grasp here…



You said _"Yeah ok, enjoy your paranoia."_
I answered _"Why do you say continously such stupid things? Why do you take care not to be taken serios?"_

An now you make yourself again to an idiot. Did you ever notice that I have absolutelly not any personal relation to you and that you know absolutelly nothing about me nor about my form to think, because I am not a member of your culture? What I am absolutelly not able to understand is what you are proud on if you never learned during the current pandemic to take care for other people and to use a mask. And where from comes your absurde idea I "like to wear a mask the rest of my life"? Although I never lived in fear of covid-19 and I am meanwhile vaccinated (1st and 2nd vaccination) I will use masks for example in super markets as long as this wearing of a mask will give other people the feeling to be in a better situation. This is a question of sense for realities, sense of humanity and sense of manners - and not a question of politics.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 7, 2021)

j-mac said:


> How about stop freaking out at a virus that you and I have a 99.97% chance of surviving?



Because you lost within the USA more people by Sars-Co-V2 and covid-19 than you lost in world war 1+2 on the battlefields somewhere far from the USA in the world?


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 7, 2021)

jc456 said:


> prove it



What means "prove it"? Either you will get a so called "Herdenschutz" - no idea what the English word for this is and I find no translation now - what means about 85% have to be vaccinated or you will be confronted with new infections. I do not think that 85% of all US-Americans ever will be vaccinated - so new local infections with covid-19 will come. And if I am wrong then you have to use vaccinations to prove me wrong - in case I'm right you will need more vaccinations to help yourselve.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 7, 2021)

jc456 said:


> masks don't stop viruses.


-----
Die Bundesanstalt für Arbeitsschutz und Arbeitsmedizin (BAuA) bestätigt: _"Eine dicht sitzende FFP2-Maske stellt einen geeigneten Schutz vor infektiösen Aerosolen, einschließlich Viren dar."_

Translation:
The federal institute for occupational safety and occupational medicine [in Germany] (BAuA) confirms: _"A tight-fitting FFP2 mask provides suitable protection against infectious aerosols, including viruses."_
-----

So why to believe in your "authority"? Because you like to kill US-Americans?


----------



## j-mac (Aug 7, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> You said _"Yeah ok, enjoy your paranoia."_
> I answered _"Why do you say continously such stupid things? Why do you take care not to be taken serios?"_



And I answered you...You seem awfully paranoid about the cold.



> An now you make yourself again to an idiot.



So, all you can do is start out with personal insult, and you think that makes you smart or what?



> > Did you ever notice that I have absolutelly not any personal relation to you and that you know absolutelly nothing about me nor about my form to think...



Oh, you think that your stance among lefties is a new thing or what? It's not....It's built around emotion just like every other leftist argument...I don't need to personally know you dipshit to comprehend the virtue signaling you put forth...It's boilerplate.




> > because I am not a member of your culture?



Don't tell me about your "culture" I spent a good bit of time in Germany. Germany relies on American culture...Want's to be just like them..Meanwhile, knows deep down they never could...Don't get me wrong, I loved my time there, and had many German friends, and can assure you that Germany is NOT a homigenous culture...Many in Germany don't agree with you.



> What I am absolutelly not able to understand is what you are proud on if you never learned during the current pandemic to take care for other people and to use a mask.



I have never stopped working a single day throughout this "pandemic".... Truck drivers don't have that luxury...And I did mask up when I wasn't vaccinated. But now that I am, I don't feel the need to walk around with a face diaper for a virus that I have a 99.97% chance of survival....Like I said you do you....



> And where from comes your absurde idea I "like to wear a mask the rest of my life"?



Because you sound like a guy that is frightened to death of getting a cold...


> Although I never lived in fear of covid-19 and I am meanwhile vaccinated (1st and 2nd vaccination) I will use masks for example in super markets as long as this wearing of a mask will give other people the feeling to be in a better situation.



And you don't think that is virtue signaling?


> This is a question of sense for realities, sense of humanity and sense of manners - and not a question of politics.



Wrong...People like you want to tell others what they should and shouldn't do...I refuse to live my life scared...


----------



## j-mac (Aug 7, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Because you lost within the USA more people by Sars-Co-V2 and covid-19 than you lost in world war 1+2 on the battlefields somewhere far from the USA in the world?


Yeah ridding your land of a Tyrant...You're welcome...And although your statement is true, a pandemic is far different than a war....But, that's ok...mask at will, I don't care.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 7, 2021)

j-mac said:


> And I answered you...You seem awfully paranoid about the cold.



If I would be paranoid I would not speak with US-Americans or people form any other culture or nation.



j-mac said:


> So, all you can do is start out with personal insult, and you think that makes you smart or what?
> 
> 
> Oh, you think that your stance among lefties is a new thing or what?



Says a mindmanipulated slave who has  not any idea what he tries to speak about on his own?



j-mac said:


> It's not....It's built around emotion just like every other leftist argument...I don't need to personally know you dipshit to comprehend the virtue signaling you put forth...It's boilerplate.
> 
> Don't tell me about your "culture" I spent a good bit of time in Germany. Germany relies on American culture...



Many migrants and ultra-modern (=¿lefties? in your form to think?) Germans use meanwhile the word "to fuck" as a spearword, what had been before the reunion a no-go in the German culture. Poor guys. Others try to introduce in the Germasn language the English word "gender" including a complete ideology around this word  - what makes absolutelly not any sense. Many people lost the contact to the deep calm beauty and wisdom of the German language. You could be right that the death of Germany will come a little sooner than I thought. I thought the last German will die in 300-400 years - but it could also be this will happen within the next 100 years. And the very strange moment: The main reason for the death of Germany is the USA - although Germany never did do anything bad to the USA in whole history. Really very strange. And ugly. You kill what you touch.



j-mac said:


> Want's to be just like them..



Specially like Red Indians.



j-mac said:


> Meanwhile, knows deep down they never could...Don't get me wrong, I loved my time there, and had many German friends,



To find only one friend during the whole life is for many Germans a wish which never will come true - your culture is extraordinary generous with this word.



j-mac said:


> and can assure you that Germany is NOT a homigenous culture...Many in Germany don't agree with you.



I never said Germany is a homogenuos culture. I'm not a Prussian. We are many nations in many traditions and here live many migrants from many foreign cultures too.



j-mac said:


> I have never stopped working a single day throughout this "pandemic".... Truck drivers don't have that luxury...And I did mask up when I wasn't vaccinated. But now that I am, I don't feel the need to walk around with a face diaper for a virus that I have a 99.97% chance of survival....Like I said you do you....



And that's what I call "egocentrism". Because you are safe all other US-Americans are unimportant for you and you start your freedom fight "let others die, that's more comfortable for me  - I am safe". And exactly this form to think leads the reality of this virus into absurdity. "You" = the USA - will be safe if worldwide most people are vaccinated - and not only you will be vaccinated. Somehow strange that this poor form of dead nationalism without love seems to be the only bridge between the people in the USA.



j-mac said:


> Because you sound like a guy that is frightened to death of getting a cold...
> 
> 
> And you don't think that is virtue signaling?



I don't have any idea what you understand by using the word "Tugend" or "goodness". The word virtue is for me combined with knightly virtues. Preemptive strikes? Guantanamo? Hidden torture jails? Supression of women? Racisms? ...



j-mac said:


> Wrong...People like you want to tell others what they should and shouldn't do...I refuse to live my life scared...



Hell is a place where no one (s)cares and everyone suffers.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 7, 2021)

jc456 said:


> my immune system needs no help.



Your word in gods ear canal. The empirical data speak in general another language. The more people are vaccinated the better and safe is the situation for everyone.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 7, 2021)

j-mac said:


> Yeah ridding your land of a Tyrant



Which you created first by changing the result of this war which today is called "world war 1" - and by damaging Germany totally after this war.



j-mac said:


> ...You're welcome...



?



j-mac said:


> And although your statement is true, a pandemic is far different than a war....



The US made Spanish influenca costed worldwide much more victims than world war 1. No one speaks about. Everyone speaks about heroisms.



j-mac said:


> But, that's ok...mask at will, I don't care.



Sure you don't care. You are an US-American. You don't care except you are able to make money. That's your state philosophy. But why do you write here? Because you don't care? You take care that more US-Americans will die. You are an enemy of your own country.


----------



## j-mac (Aug 8, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> If I would be paranoid I would not speak with US-Americans or people form any other culture or nation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, that’s just fine…go on throughout your life having a misconception of Americans, meanwhile your leader Merkel can beg for our troops and their money and rely on their protection to boost your economy, and guard your country.

You sir are an ingrate. An arrogant little snot who doesn’t know your country’s history, but talks to me about subjugation, and racism while your own country is responsible for horrible genocide.

You want to cowar over a cold? Go ahead. I would expect no less from a beta male from your country…
tschüss​


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 8, 2021)

j-mac said:


> Well, that’s just fine…go on throughout your life having a misconception of Americans,



US-Americans. You are only a part of America. The misconception of Americans is yours.



j-mac said:


> meanwhile your leader Merkel



Mrs. Angela Merkel is chancellor of the federal republic of Germany. In her responsibility are many things - but she is not my leader. She represents a part of the will of the people of Germany. Often I did not agree with her - nevertheless let me  say here "_Thank you_!" to her. "_You did do a great job, Angela._"



j-mac said:


> can beg for our troops



For what? For your troops? You spy in Germany in every public institution, in every company and even in every private toilet.



j-mac said:


> and their money and rely on their protection to boost your economy, and guard your country.



If you think about the Marshall plan then this had been only successful in Germany because the federal republic of Germany subventioned this plan - otherwise no one had been able to buy the goods from America for the outrages prices of this goods; in the Marshall plan flew a lot of money from Germany to the USA and some unimportant overcharged products from the USA to Germany.



j-mac said:


> You sir



My "Sir" sleeps in a wardrobe.



j-mac said:


> are an ingrate. An arrogant little snot



 ... I feel honored.



j-mac said:


> who doesn’t know your country’s history,



I know very well the history of my countries. And this history is a very wonderful and fascinating history.



j-mac said:


> but talks to me about subjugation,



I talk about what? I talked about your bad manners which make you to an enemy of the USA, because your bad manners mean other people are able to die on it.



j-mac said:


> and racism



And what?



j-mac said:


> while your own country is responsible for horrible genocide.



Nice way for you to say "I lost". I don't have any idea what you lost - but your are right: You lost now! Famous people of my own personal culture are for example Mr. Levi Strauss or Mr. Albert Einstein.



j-mac said:


> You want to cowar over a cold?



¿to cowar? What's that? To be a coward? First of all it's interesting for me that you call more than 600,000 dead US-Americans "victims of a cold". And you bring this in context with the expression "coward". This "logic" is similar to the logic of Donald Trump, who called the killed soldiers of the USA in world war 2 "losers". "Losers" like them are people who are not respected from the loser Donald Trump who is always only able to be a winner and to win to death "losers".



j-mac said:


> Go ahead.
> I would expect no less from a beta male from your country…



One moment - Do you use here suddenly a biologism of the Nazis? Alpha wolves in the human society - like Adolf (=wolve) Hitler ???



j-mac said:


> tschüss​



Ciao


----------



## j-mac (Aug 8, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> US-Americans. You are only a part of America. The misconception of Americans is yours.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What a sad commentary from an ingrate in a country that can not stand on its own unless their big brother, the USA is there to watch over them…

And it is not my individuality that is responsible for the 600k deaths in America, you little snot, it’s globalist leftists like you who are duped by pronouncements of government “here to help” and media disseminating propaganda to politicize this pandemic that you eat up with a big spoon.

Spare me your contempt of my nation while you reap the rewards of our protection, and our tax dollars to keep you in your lifestyle.

Ive said it to you a dozen times on our dialogue. If you want to wear a mask, then do so. But, I’ll be damned if I’m going to sit here and let you tell me what to do…Got it?

now we are done.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 8, 2021)

j-mac said:


> What a sad commentary from an ingrate in a country that can not stand on its own unless their big brother, the USA is there to watch over them…



Germany and her mother cultures are some decades of thousands of years older than the USA, little grandchild. And with "brotherly" has the behavior of the USA nearly nothing to do in case of Germany. With "Verarschung" a lot.



j-mac said:


> And it is not my individuality that is responsible for the 600k deaths in America, you little snot, it’s globalist leftists like you who are duped by pronouncements of government “here to help” and media disseminating propaganda to politicize this pandemic that you eat up with a big spoon.
> 
> Spare me your contempt of my nation while you reap the rewards of our protection, and our tax dollars to keep you in your lifestyle.
> 
> ...



Idiot, homicidal one. How anti-reasonable is the USA meanwhile?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 9, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Who is not vaccinated will be infected with Sars-Co-V2.


what the fk does that mean?  I'm seventeen months no Sars infected.  How is that possible if it is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo contagious?  I do super spreader events as well.  Still waiting for this ugly thing to find me.  You are a parrot of fear.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 9, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Germany and her mother cultures are some decades of thousands of years older than the USA, little grandchild. And with "brotherly" has the behavior of the USA nearly nothing to do in case of Germany. With "Verarschung" a lot.


correct we don't have those biases.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 9, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Why do you say continously such stupid things? Why do you take care not to be taken serios?


you're far too ignorant to understand.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 9, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Idiot, homicidal one. How anti-reasonable is the USA meanwhile?


how much, Give us an example.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 9, 2021)

j-mac said:


> And it is not my individuality that is responsible for the 600k deaths in America, you little snot, it’s globalist leftists like you who are duped by pronouncements of government “here to help” and media disseminating propaganda to politicize this pandemic that you eat up with a big spoon.


no one is at fault.  8000 people die daily in the US.  Simple statistics tell us that people die.  It is truly a shame that some feel like they can change that fact.


----------



## Jim H - VA USA (Aug 9, 2021)

*Dr. Dan Stock, MD, discusses masks and vaccines (Video).*

Everything we are doing is wrong.  Everything being recommended by the CDC is inconsistent with established Science and their own data.

Masks are ineffective at preventing viral transmission, per the CDC's and NIH's own data.

We cannot make respiratory viruses disappear.  They circulate all year, and they have animal reservoirs.  Smallpox had no animal reservoirs.

Vaccination changes none of this.  The current vaccine is causing anti-body mediated viral enhancement, which has happened for all coronaviruses.  

Vaccines allow the virus to be come worse than it would with native infection.

75% of symptomatic COVID cases in Cape Cod were of fully-vaccinated individuals.

Therefore vaccinated and unvaccinated should be treated equally.

Vaccinated individuals are shedding virus.  The vaccines don't do exactly what you want them to do.  These summer outbreaks are unusual, and being driven by the vaccinated.

People who had COVID get no benefit at all from vaccination, and they get reactions to the vaccines at four to six times the previously uninfected.

Everything we are doing is wrong and unscientific.


----------



## Jim H - VA USA (Aug 9, 2021)

Two publications discussing how vaccines can make the spread of the virus worse.

They explain why we are seeing a summer surge of a respiratory virus, which is quite unusual...









						Antibody-dependent enhancement and SARS-CoV-2 vaccines and therapies - PubMed
					

Antibody-based drugs and vaccines against severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) are being expedited through preclinical and clinical development. Data from the study of SARS-CoV and other respiratory viruses suggest that anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies could exacerbate COVID-19...




					pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				



_Data from the study of SARS-CoV and other respiratory viruses suggest that anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies could exacerbate COVID-19 through antibody-dependent enhancement_









						A perspective on potential antibody-dependent enhancement of SARS-CoV-2 - PubMed
					

Antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE) of disease is a general concern for the development of vaccines and antibody therapies because the mechanisms that underlie antibody protection against any virus have a theoretical potential to amplify the infection or trigger harmful immunopathology. This...




					pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				



_Antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE) of disease is a general concern for the development of vaccines and antibody therapies because the mechanisms that underlie antibody protection against any virus have a theoretical potential to amplify the infection or trigger harmful immunopathology.  This possibility requires careful consideration at this critical point in the pandemic of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), which is caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2)._

So, the widespread distribution of the vaccines might be making the pandemic worse, and the WHO and the CDC knew this all along.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 10, 2021)

jc456 said:


> what the fk does that mean?



It means what I said: Who is not vaccinated will be infected with Sars-Co-V2. This is only a question of time.



jc456 said:


> I'm seventeen months no Sars infected.  How is that possible if it is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo contagious?



Fortunatelly it is not very contagious and also not extremely deadly  - otherwise it had needed much harder methods to bring it under control.



jc456 said:


> I do super spreader events as well.  Still waiting for this ugly thing to find me.  You are a parrot of fear.



You live in your nightmare. I am vaccinated.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 10, 2021)

jc456 said:


> how much, Give us an example.


Donald Trump - it's really unbelievable that this stupid man got more than one vote.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 10, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Fortunatelly it is not very contagious and also not extremely deadly - otherwise it had needed much harder methods to bring it under control.


so why the need for a vaccine?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 10, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Donald Trump - it's really unbelievable that this stupid man got more than one vote.


dude, you will never understand.  I've said that over and over again.   Never been about the man.  It has everything to do with his loyalty to Americans.  You're german, so why would you be able to understand?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 10, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> You live in your nightmare. I am vaccinated.


I'm happy for you.  I have no fear of the boogieman.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 10, 2021)

jc456 said:


> so why the need for a vaccine?



Here in Germany you can see for example a very big difference in the relative numbers of new infections between the people who are older than 60 years, where 80%  are vaccinatd and the younger people from 15-59 years where relativelly less people are vaccinated and much more are infected. Covid-19 is still very uncalculable - same with the long covid problems. My wife and I spoke yesterday about a young soldier in the age of 29 who made also a sport called "half ironman". Topfit and sane. He got a covid-19 infection which he himself did to notice at all. A standard test showed his infection. No problem. After 1 month he had a health check ... everything okay ... and one month later he suddenly got a very serios problem: many little thrombi (blood cluts) in his lung. A deadly situation and not any chance for a fast solution with an operation. He was lucky - they were able to solve this problem with the help of god, long time and medicaments. But still today he is not able to do sports and without medicaments he would not be able to live a relativelly normal life again. And this man is meanwhile vaccinated and says very clear to everyone: _Go and let vaccinate you!

_


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 10, 2021)

jc456 said:


> I'm happy for you.  I have no fear of the boogieman.



You will have fear if you will have to die under covid-19. It's a miserable, terrible, lonesome death.  But the boogievirus will for sure never have any fear. And it will also not love any of the stupid criminal or criminal stupid idiots, who fight for it so it is able to infect as many people as possible.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 10, 2021)

jc456 said:


> dude, you will never understand.  I've said that over and over again.   Never been about the man.  It has everything to do with his loyalty to Americans.



Aha.



jc456 said:


> You're german, so why would you be able to understand?



As a German I understand very well that you are loyal to a virus, because you hate US-Americans and like to see them dead. What I don't understand is why we Germans don't dance in the streets and are happily celebrating the death of every US-American in the Octoberfest in 2020, 2021, 2022.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 10, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> You will have fear if you will have to die under covid-19. It's a miserable, terrible, lonesome death.


I see you still here, so how would you know?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 10, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> But the boogievirus will for sure never have any fear.


again, I have no fear of it.  Have you even seen him?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 10, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> As a German I understand very well that you are loyal to a virus, because you hate US-Americans and like to see them dead. What I don't understand is why we Germans don't dance in the streets and are happily celebrating the death of every US-American in the Octoberfest in 2020, 2021, 2022.


naw, see you still don't understand.  It's okay you're german.  we believe in the individual's rights not the government's thought.  That's how our constitution is written.  It's a very powerful document, so powerful millions want to come here and live under it.  Government reports to the citizens, not the other way around.  Demofks are trying to change that, but failing badly.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 10, 2021)

jc456 said:


> I see you still here, so how would you know?



The best is not to learn from the own bad exeriences - the best is to learn from the bad experiences of others. You tell people to be proud to do suicide by rejecting vaccinations - what is in very most cases the very best what everyone is able to do to help oneself and others. You slow down this defense process - and because of this unnecessary slow down it will probably happen that people will die. No one here on Earth is able to see this unhealthy causes and deadly effects directly - but god knows. You fight not only against your fellow citizens with an unbelievable energy  - you fight also against all mankind and for a long time in purgatory, where you hopefully not have to live the death of the people who have to die because you cause their death without to know this with your deadly brainwashing propaganda. All mankind needs a vaccination and because of people like you we all lose too much time and so we all are increasing the probability of new variations of this virus.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 10, 2021)

jc456 said:


> again, I have no fear of it.  Have you even seen him?


You disqualify yourselve to an idiot.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 10, 2021)

jc456 said:


> naw, see you still don't understand.  It's okay you're german.



And now racism as an "argument"?



jc456 said:


> we believe in the individual's rights not the government's thought.



What a nonsense sentence. Your government is your own decision in the USA. In other countries of the world - Belarus for example - it is not in this way.



jc456 said:


> That's how our constitution is written.



In your constitution is written: _"Don't fight pandemics and let kill you and all others from virusses"_? What about a new constitution?



jc456 said:


> It's a very powerful document,



Is it? Never read it. The declaration of independence is very good.

_"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are *Life* ..."!_



jc456 said:


> so powerful millions want to come here and live under it.



I not. I'm not able to imagine I could feel well in your country.



jc456 said:


> Government reports to the citizens, not the other way around.



?



jc456 said:


> Demofks are trying to change that, but failing badly.



Aha. So for you personally it is more important to damage your self chosen political counter part instead to fight for your own life and the life of your people. ... Not unknown such a dark form of mind. Remembers me to something ... Did you ever hear the word "priorities"? What kind of freedom is the freedom of dead or sick people? Saddle your horse and start to fight against this damned deadly and damaging virus - and not against your people.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 10, 2021)

...the unvaccinated spread it more and spread it worse.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 10, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> You disqualify yourselve to an idiot.


Yes, you are an idiot! I don’t ever associate with idiots


----------



## jc456 (Aug 10, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> ...the unvaccinated spread it more and spread it worse.


Prove it


----------



## jc456 (Aug 10, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> And now racism as an "argument"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’m not at risk of anything. No more than any other year since a hip replacement and kidney stones. I fear nothing I can’t see


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 10, 2021)

jc456 said:


> Prove it


_ABC News contacted 50 hospitals in 17 states, and asked them to share data on their ICU wards' current COVID-19 patients, including their vaccination status. In the surveyed hospitals, ABC News found that the overwhelming majority of COVID-19 patients currently being treated in ICUs were unvaccinated.

Of the 271 total COVID patients in the surveyed ICUs, 255 patients, or approximately 94%, were unvaccinated against COVID-19 in ABC News' snapshot in time._








						Vast majority of ICU patients with COVID-19 are unvaccinated, ABC News survey finds
					

Dozens of hospitals surveyed by ABC News across the country report that very few fully vaccinated people are ending up in the ICU with COVID-19.




					abcnews.go.com


----------



## jc456 (Aug 10, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> _ABC News contacted 50 hospitals in 17 states, and asked them to share data on their ICU wards' current COVID-19 patients, including their vaccination status. In the surveyed hospitals, ABC News found that the overwhelming majority of COVID-19 patients currently being treated in ICUs were unvaccinated.
> 
> Of the 271 total COVID patients in the surveyed ICUs, 255 patients, or approximately 94%, were unvaccinated against COVID-19 in ABC News' snapshot in time._
> 
> ...


We proved bullshit on another thread using icu numbers oops! No proof. Let me know when you call hospitals and tally the count! You believe nonsense


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 10, 2021)

jc456 said:


> I’m not at risk of anything.



You are damned dangerous for everyone who trusts in you.



jc456 said:


> No more than any other year since a hip replacement and kidney stones. I fear nothing I can’t see



And how idiotic was your own behavior, which had caused a defect hip and kidney stones, because you fear nothing what you decided not to understand on mysterious political reasons?


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 11, 2021)

jc456 said:


> We proved bullshit on another thread using icu numbers oops! No proof. Let me know when you call hospitals and tally the count! You believe nonsense


Right-wingers are even less credible.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 11, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> You are damned dangerous for everyone who trusts in you.


or not


----------



## jc456 (Aug 11, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Right-wingers are even less credible.


so you admit the numbers are bullshit.  thanks.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 11, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> You are damned dangerous for everyone who trusts in you.
> 
> 
> 
> And how idiotic was your own behavior, which had caused a defect hip and kidney stones, because you fear nothing what you decided not to understand on mysterious political reasons?


I played softball and broke both fibula and tibula.  In the healing process, I lost 3/8's inches in my left leg.  Over the next 39 years because I walked uneven, my hip joint failed.  And I had kidney stones at the age of seven years old.   All you got is to try and shame someone you silly fk.  You are a weak ass human being.  Your not worth the air around you. Germany is right where you belong. Nazi.


----------



## Jim H - VA USA (Aug 11, 2021)

Imperfect vaccines (which allow the vaccinated to spread a virus, like all of the COVID vaccines), are known to make viruses more dangerous.  

Summer respiratory virus outbreaks are abnormal.  Is this what we are witnessing?  A complete failure of our vaccination program, actually creating new surges which otherwise would not have happened?

From PBS in 2015:

_A leaky vaccine is one that keeps a microbe from doing serious harm to its host, but doesn’t stop the disease from replicating and spreading to another individual. On the other hand, a “perfect” vaccine is one that sets up lifelong immunity that never wanes and blocks both infection and transmission.

It’s important to note childhood vaccines for polio, measles, mumps, rubella and smallpox aren’t leaky; they are considered “perfect” vaccines. As such, they are in no way in danger of falling prey to this phenomenon._










						This chicken vaccine makes its virus more dangerous
					

Scientists find experimental evidence for the first time that a vaccine can make a virus worse.




					www.pbs.org
				





This news from Martha's Vineyard is rather interesting, considering Obama just held a superspreader event there.  50% of COVID cases in August are among the vaccinated...









						Covid Cases Keep Climbing; More Clusters Reported
					

Covid-19 cases have shot back up on Martha’s Vineyard, with health agents reporting 48 new positive tests during the first week in August, including three case clusters at Edgartown businesses.




					vineyardgazette.com


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 11, 2021)

jc456 said:


> so you admit the numbers are bullshit.  thanks.


I admit right-wingers resort to special pleading in a manner analogous to "lying with statistics".


----------



## jc456 (Aug 11, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> I admit right-wingers resort to special pleading in a manner analogous to "lying with statistics".


I use the links you all provide.  You all are far too stupid to read it.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 11, 2021)

jc456 said:


> I use the links you all provide.  You all are far too stupid to read it.


Your hypocrisy against the Chinese and "illegals" is obvious to everyone.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 11, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Your hypocrisy against the Chinese and "illegals" is obvious to everyone.


illegals are illegals.  Do you have a problem with law?


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 11, 2021)

jc456 said:


> I played softball and broke both fibula and tibula.



Aha.



jc456 said:


> In the healing process, I lost 3/8's inches in my left leg.  Over the next 39 years because I walked uneven, my hip joint failed.  And I had kidney stones at the age of seven years old.



Aha



jc456 said:


> All you got is to try and shame someone you silly fk.



Aha



jc456 said:


> You are a weak ass human being.



Aha



jc456 said:


> Your not worth the air around you. Germany is right where you belong. Nazi.



You are in danger to lose your soul now, racist. I will put you on my ignore list. Never again in your life try to speak with me.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 11, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> You are in danger to lose your soul now, racist. I will put you on my ignore list. Never again in your life try to speak with me.


another demofk nazi loser bites the dust.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Aug 11, 2021)

which is WHY it makes no sense to get the vaccine.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 11, 2021)

jc456 said:


> illegals are illegals.  Do you have a problem with law?


Obey the mask and vax laws right-wingers, don't be illegal, illegals.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 11, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Obey the mask and vax laws right-wingers, don't be illegal, illegals.


There’s no law


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 12, 2021)

jc456 said:


> There’s no law


Why are there immoral and unethical anti-mask or anti-vax laws?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 12, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Why are there immoral and unethical anti-mask or anti-vax laws?


don't exist.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 12, 2021)

jc456 said:


> don't exist.


Not even in red States?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 12, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Not even in red States?


did I stutter?


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 12, 2021)

jc456 said:


> did I stutter?


Anti-mask laws were enacted because of the KKK.  Is it any wonder why red States have a problem distinguishing health issues from bigotry issues.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 12, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Anti-mask laws were enacted because of the KKK.  Is it any wonder why red States have a problem distinguishing health issues from bigotry issues.


the kkkers hung blacks and jews.  It seems you have an issue with that.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 12, 2021)

jc456 said:


> the kkkers hung blacks and jews.  It seems you have an issue with that.


Yes.  Only illegals do that without due process.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 12, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Yes.  Only illegals do that without due process.


illegals most often cross at the southern border without papers.  I didn't have them as kkkers.  but hey, whatever floats your boat.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 12, 2021)

jc456 said:


> illegals most often cross at the southern border without papers.  I didn't have them as kkkers.  but hey, whatever floats your boat


Whence any anti-mask laws but only an establishment clause for an uniform rule of naturalization in our federal Constitution?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 12, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Whence any anti-mask laws but only an establishment clause for an uniform rule of naturalization in our federal Constitution?


you tell me


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 12, 2021)

jc456 said:


> you tell me


Right-wing rebelliousness without a Cause?  Repeating historical mistakes but trying to convince us you are for the "gospel Truth" instead of merely right-wing fantasy is what y'all seem best at.


----------



## sakinago (Aug 12, 2021)

pknopp said:


> I always chuckle at headlines like this.
> 
> Vaccinated _might_ spread the virus.
> 
> ...


No, the data is clear now. Look at all the most heavily vaccinated countries and regions. Anywhere from 40%-60% (100% for Gibraltar) of their new COVID patients are fully vaccinated(see Israel, UK, Iceland). Massachusetts has the 2nd highest vaccination rate in the states and is at 48% (as of 2 weeks ago) of their new patients are fully vaccinated. These numbers aren’t including those who already have already recovered and have naturally immunity (which actually works agains the delta).

Folks, none of this should be a surprise. I’ve started a couple threads on this subject. We’ve never made a vaccine for this type of rapidly mutating RNA virus for this exact reason. By the time a vaccine is made and distributed, it will become old news. This is what we’re seeing


----------



## Donald H (Aug 12, 2021)

More proof that the vaccines are deadly killers and no American should be getting one. 
Proof that Trump was right all along. And proof that Trump himself was never vaccinated.
best wishes from Canada.


----------



## sartre play (Aug 12, 2021)

People who don't value staying safe for them self's or others spread the virus. Take politics out of the equations.


----------



## Donald H (Aug 12, 2021)

sartre play said:


> People who don't value staying safe for them self's or others spread the virus. Take politics out of the equations.


You've missed the point. Vaccinated people are spreading the virus in America.*
* not applicable to other countries.

** Biden has had impurities added to the vaccines for red states. Proven by red state death statistics.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 12, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Right-wing rebelliousness without a Cause?  Repeating historical mistakes but trying to convince us you are for the "gospel Truth" instead of merely right-wing fantasy is what y'all seem best at.


still not seeing the relationship with illegals crossing the southern border.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 12, 2021)

sakinago said:


> No, the data is clear now. Look at all the most heavily vaccinated countries and regions. Anywhere from 40%-60% (100% for Gibraltar) of their new COVID patients are fully vaccinated(see Israel, UK, Iceland). Massachusetts has the 2nd highest vaccination rate in the states and is at 48% (as of 2 weeks ago) of their new patients are fully vaccinated. These numbers aren’t including those who already have already recovered and have naturally immunity (which actually works agains the delta).
> 
> Folks, none of this should be a surprise. I’ve started a couple threads on this subject. We’ve never made a vaccine for this type of rapidly mutating RNA virus for this exact reason. By the time a vaccine is made and distributed, it will become old news. This is what we’re seeing


Shit, the CDC is rejecting those from vaccinated countries.  That should tell all.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 12, 2021)

sartre play said:


> People who don't value staying safe for them self's or others spread the virus. Take politics out of the equations.


my health isn't your concern.  go enjoy your family and leave us alone.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 12, 2021)

sakinago said:


> No, the data is clear now. Look at all the most heavily vaccinated countries and regions. Anywhere from 40%-60% (100% for Gibraltar) of their new COVID patients are fully vaccinated(see Israel, UK, Iceland). Massachusetts has the 2nd highest vaccination rate in the states and is at 48% (as of 2 weeks ago) of their new patients are fully vaccinated. These numbers aren’t including those who already have already recovered and have naturally immunity (which actually works agains the delta).
> 
> Folks, none of this should be a surprise. I’ve started a couple threads on this subject. We’ve never made a vaccine for this type of rapidly mutating RNA virus for this exact reason. By the time a vaccine is made and distributed, it will become old news. This is what we’re seeing


it's because the vaccines are not made with dead virus strands.


----------



## sakinago (Aug 12, 2021)

jc456 said:


> it's because the vaccines are not made with dead virus strands.


Yeah using just a spike protein is only going to present antigens from a spike protein. Ipso facto all a virus has to do to beat the vaccine is mutate enough on the spike protein vs having an entire viral makeover. Even if they were using an attenuated virus it would eventually mutate away from it, might’ve taken longer, but it was going to happen. When you mutate rapidly and make trillions of copies of yourself, you’ll beat pretty much any vaccine. This was always going to happen Nature and the gods of the copybook headings will always bat 0.1000.


----------



## Rigby5 (Aug 12, 2021)

sakinago said:


> Yeah using just a spike protein is only going to present antigens from a spike protein. Ipso facto all a virus has to do to beat the vaccine is mutate enough on the spike protein vs having an entire viral makeover. Even if they were using an attenuated virus it would eventually mutate away from it, might’ve taken longer, but it was going to happen. When you mutate rapidly and make trillions of copies of yourself, you’ll beat pretty much any vaccine. This was always going to happen Nature and the gods of the copybook headings will always bat 0.1000.



Good post, but a slight correction is I hate when people say "mutates".
Mutations are totally random damage, like from radiation.
Almost all mutations are dead, and it would take on the order of a million years for one to accidentally be viable and better.
That can not happen in life times.
What can happen in life time spans are 2 possibilities.
One is that variants already long existed, but natural selection pulls some of them into the vast majority.
The other is that it is more like hybridization, where more than one virus injects its RNA into the same cell nucleus, and they combine.
Both should not be called "mutation".

Since you understand the vax is just a spike protein, imagine if it accidentally taught the immune system to start to attack the spike protein of our own exosomes?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Good post, but a slight correction is I hate when people say "mutates".
> Mutations are totally random damage, like from radiation.
> Almost all mutations are dead, and it would take on the order of a million years for one to accidentally be viable and better.
> That can not happen in life times.
> ...


mutation

_the changing of the structure of a gene, resulting in a variant form that may be transmitted to subsequent generations, caused by the alteration of single base units in DNA, or the deletion, insertion, or rearrangement of larger sections of genes or chromosomes._

Sorry, but mutation is the exact word to use.


----------



## Rigby5 (Aug 12, 2021)

jc456 said:


> mutation
> 
> _the changing of the structure of a gene, resulting in a variant form that may be transmitted to subsequent generations, caused by the alteration of single base units in DNA, or the deletion, insertion, or rearrangement of larger sections of genes or chromosomes._
> 
> Sorry, but mutation is the exact word to use.



I disagree.
These variants can NOT be just a simple random change.
The large number of differences, as well as the successful increase in genetic complexity, means this is a combination of 2 or more existing RNA sequences.
When you cross breed 2 plants or animals to produce a hybrid, would you call that a "mutation"?
I would not, because to me "mutation" does not mean just and "change", but a very random and accidental change.
A hybrid is a combination of 2 different and already successful genetic patterns.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> I disagree.
> These variants can NOT be just a simple random change.
> The large number of differences, as well as the successful increase in genetic complexity, means this is a combination of 2 or more existing RNA sequences.
> When you cross breed 2 plants or animals to produce a hybrid, would you call that a "mutation"?
> ...


You can disagree, but don’t change the word’s definition, that has variant in it!


----------



## Rigby5 (Aug 12, 2021)

jc456 said:


> You can disagree, but don’t change the word’s definition, that has variant in it!



Any and all changes is a "variant".
But a "mutation" implies a single change from a random accidental damage.
The delta variant is more than one change, like greater infectiousness as well as less lethality.
That is not a single random accidental change.
So it is much more likely a hybrid combination of 2 or more different viruses.
This variant could essentially be a crossbreed between covid-19 and the common cold.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 13, 2021)

jc456 said:


> still not seeing the relationship with illegals crossing the southern border.


Walls obviously don't work.  Why bother with the expense?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 13, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Walls obviously don't work.  Why bother with the expense?


hahahahaahahahahahahaahahahahahaha All the walls in the world and you say none work.  yeah ok.  your form of stupid is deep.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 13, 2021)

Found this this morning.  Interesting for sure.









						Dr. Peter McCullough’s 5 most important truths about COVID-19 - LifeSite
					

Natural immunity is real, asymptomatic people should not get tested, and more




					www.lifesitenews.com
				




* COVID-19 is NOT spread asymptomatically*​Dr. McCullough started off by debunking the common belief that asymptomatic people can pass on the disease to others and insisted that only people showing symptoms are actually contagious.

“The virus is not spread asymptomatically. Only sick people give it to other people.”

Exactly what I have said in here since day 1.  Here's a very high ranking doctor, oops!!!!!!!

And

*. Natural immunity is robust complete and durable*​The third point Dr. McCullough addressed was the question of natural immunity, which he qualified as “robust, complete, and durable,” thus casting out any fear that one can contract a serious case of the disease more than once and rejecting another common myth on COVID.

and lastly

*5. Current COVID-19 vaccines are obsolete and should be considered unfit for human use*​Last but not least, the physician addressed the question of COVID vaccines.

According to McCullough, the currently available vaccines – like the AstraZeneca, Johnson & Johnson, Pfizer, and Moderna shots – are “obsolete.”


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 13, 2021)

jc456 said:


> hahahahaahahahahahahaahahahahahaha All the walls in the world and you say none work.  yeah ok.  your form of stupid is deep.


They have HomeDepot south of the border now.  But American ladders!


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 13, 2021)

jc456 said:


> Found this this morning.  Interesting for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A right-winger wanting us to believe right-wing fantasy instead of learning from historical mistakes?  Where are the studies showing that conclusion?


----------



## sakinago (Aug 13, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> I disagree.
> These variants can NOT be just a simple random change.
> The large number of differences, as well as the successful increase in genetic complexity, means this is a combination of 2 or more existing RNA sequences.
> When you cross breed 2 plants or animals to produce a hybrid, would you call that a "mutation"?
> ...


Mutations still happen, sometimes on purpose, in all forms of life fairly regularly. I forget the name of the process and mechanism, but random genes in either gametes, or at conception will be changed or swapped. In other words, mutations are more features than they are bugs. Even though the vast majority of the time they are not advantageous, they ensure genetic diversity.


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 13, 2021)

jc456 said:


> Exactly what I have said in here since day 1. Here's a very high ranking doctor, oops!!!!!!!


What’s his rank! Colonel?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 13, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> They have HomeDepot south of the border now.  But American ladders!


corporate owned.  how's that negate a wall?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 13, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> What’s his rank! Colonel?


writes peer review for the American Medical world.  Speaks in front of the Congress.  Is a doctor.  You a doctor? Got any material to challenge him with?  I'm happy to review it.  post a link,


----------



## Rigby5 (Aug 13, 2021)

sakinago said:


> Mutations still happen, sometimes on purpose, in all forms of life fairly regularly. I forget the name of the process and mechanism, but random genes in either gametes, or at conception will be changed or swapped. In other words, mutations are more features than they are bugs. Even though the vast majority of the time they are not advantageous, they ensure genetic diversity.



The word "mutation" implies a random change at a single location, almost always due to damage, like radiation.
It does not properly apply to swaps or merges.
Anything that is deliberate or a feature, is not properly called a "mutation".
For example, with meiosis, you have chromosomes splitting into gametes and then recombining one gamete from each parent.
That is a change, so the offspring is not identical to either parent, but no one would call that a "mutation".
A "mutation" has a random connotation, and meiosis is not at all random, but very predictable.


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 13, 2021)

jc456 said:


> writes peer review for the American Medical world.  Speaks in front of the Congress.  Is a doctor.  You a doctor? Got any material to challenge him with?  I'm happy to review it.  post a link,











						Quantifying asymptomatic infection and transmission of COVID-19 in New York City using observed cases, serology, and testing capacity
					

As health officials face another wave of COVID-19, they require estimates of the proportion of infected cases that develop symptoms, and the extent to which symptomatic and asymptomatic cases contribute to community transmission. Recent asymptomatic testing guidelines are ambiguous. Using an...




					www.pnas.org
				




What material did the colonel have to support his claim?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 13, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> Quantifying asymptomatic infection and transmission of COVID-19 in New York City using observed cases, serology, and testing capacity
> 
> 
> As health officials face another wave of COVID-19, they require estimates of the proportion of infected cases that develop symptoms, and the extent to which symptomatic and asymptomatic cases contribute to community transmission. Recent asymptomatic testing guidelines are ambiguous. Using an...
> ...


what's the evidence in that article?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 13, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> What material did the colonel have to support his claim?


experience?  He is a doctor. Is a colonel


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 13, 2021)

jc456 said:


> experience?  He is a doctor. Is a colonel


You said he’s a high ranking doctor. If he isn’t a colonel, and I mean a full bird colonel, then it doesn’t count as high ranking. 

He doesn’t even treat COVID patients.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 13, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> You said he’s a high ranking doctor. If he isn’t a colonel, and I mean a full bird colonel, then it doesn’t count as high ranking.
> 
> He doesn’t even treat COVID patients.


sure he does.  go look him up on you tube in front of the texas senate.  He wrote a peer review paper.  Feel free to listen in here.





__





						peter mccullough dr - Bing video
					






					www.bing.com
				




you a doctor?  still haven't answered.  why?  Fauci treated any wuhan patients?  you fks are hilarious.  truly. your pooh flinging is always exceptional.


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 13, 2021)

jc456 said:


> sure he does.  go look him up on you tube in front of the texas senate.  He wrote a peer review paper.  Feel free to listen in here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He’s the guy who’s being sued because he continues to claim he’s a professor at these institutions that fired his ass. 

He hasn’t done any original research on COVID.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 13, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> He’s the guy who’s being sued because he continues to claim he’s a professor at these institutions that fired his ass.
> 
> He hasn’t done any original research on COVID.


anyone can sue anyone.  who cares?

BTW, here's another link to asymptomatic not contagious.









						Analysis of Asymptomatic and Presymptomatic Transmission in SARS-CoV-2 Outbreak, Germany, 2020
					

Presymptomatic Transmission of SARS-CoV-2




					wwwnc.cdc.gov
				



Abstract​We determined secondary attack rates (SAR) among close contacts of 59 asymptomatic and symptomatic coronavirus disease case-patients by presymptomatic and symptomatic exposure. We observed no transmission from asymptomatic case-patients and highest SAR through presymptomatic exposure. Rapid quarantine of close contacts with or without symptoms is needed to prevent presymptomatic transmission.


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 13, 2021)

jc456 said:


> anyone can sue anyone.  who cares?
> 
> BTW, here's another link to asymptomatic not contagious.
> 
> ...


Your article directly contradicts the colonel. 

From the article:
Presymptomatic transmission was more frequent than symptomatic transmission.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 13, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> Your article directly contradicts the colonel.
> 
> From the article:
> Presymptomatic transmission was more frequent than symptomatic transmission.


nope, asymptomatic's don't transmit.  dude I posted the quote, maybe learn to read. Confirms the colonel. your apology is accepted.


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 13, 2021)

Right-wingers simply have lousy reading comprehension.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 13, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Right-wingers simply have lousy reading comprehension.


you think that because you have no clue as how to.


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 13, 2021)

jc456 said:


> nope, asymptomatic's don't transmit.  dude I posted the quote, maybe learn to read. Confirms the colonel. your apology is accepted.


The colonel said that you can’t transmit unless you have symptoms. 



jc456 said:


> only people showing symptoms are actually contagious.



Thanks for proving him wrong.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 13, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> The colonel said that you can’t transmit unless you have symptoms.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for proving him wrong.


yep. my link said asymptomatics don't transmit.  you're welcome.


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 13, 2021)

jc456 said:


> yep. my link said asymptomatics don't transmit. you're welcome.


Are you purposefully ignoring the second half of the statement?

Do you think only people with symptoms are symptomatic as the colonel claimed?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 13, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> Are you purposefully ignoring the second half of the statement?
> 
> Do you think only people with symptoms are symptomatic as the colonel claimed?


Asymptotical aren’t ill


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 13, 2021)

jc456 said:


> Asymptotical aren’t ill


Do you think only the symptomatic can spread COVID?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 13, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> Do you think only the symptomatic can spread COVID?


People who are ill. Asymptotic folks nope


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 13, 2021)

jc456 said:


> People who are ill. Asymptotic folks nope


Yes or no question. Do you think only the symptomatic can spread COVID?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 13, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> Yes or no question. Do you think only the symptomatic can spread COVID?


Asymptotic people nope! How many times we gonna play?


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 13, 2021)

jc456 said:


> Asymptotic people nope! How many times we gonna play?


You’re still not answering the question. 

Do you think that only symptomatic people can spread COVID?

Yes or no.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 13, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> You’re still not answering the question.
> 
> Do you think that only symptomatic people can spread COVID?
> 
> Yes or no.


People who are sick! Have temperatures and we’re still playing


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 13, 2021)

jc456 said:


> People who are sick! Have temperatures and we’re still playing


What do you think presymptomatic means?

Yes. You are playing. I think you’re playing games because you figured out where you screwed up.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 13, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> What do you think presymptomatic means?
> 
> Yes. You are playing. I think you’re playing games because you figured out where you screwed up.


Asymptomatic  Can’t transmit! All I’ve said


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 13, 2021)

jc456 said:


> Asymptomatic  Can’t transmit! All I’ve said


Care to cite any studies that reached that conclusion?


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 13, 2021)

jc456 said:


> Asymptomatic  Can’t transmit! All I’ve said


Yeah, you keep playing games. 

The colonel said only the sick can transmit. Your paper says that presymptomatic can and do transmit. Presymptomatic means they aren’t ill.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 13, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Care to cite any studies that reached that conclusion?


Links in here


----------



## jc456 (Aug 13, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> Yeah, you keep playing games.
> 
> The colonel said only the sick can transmit. Your paper says that presymptomatic can and do transmit. Presymptomatic means they aren’t ill.


That’s not asymptomatic


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 13, 2021)

jc456 said:


> That’s not asymptomatic


But they don’t have symptoms at the time, do they?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 13, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> But they don’t have symptoms at the time, do they?


Asymptomatic is asymptomatic!! Not contagious! It’s what I’ve been posting! You can’t handle that fact I guess! Strange game you’re playing


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 13, 2021)

jc456 said:


> Links in here


Transmission by persons who are infected but do not have any symptoms can arise from 2 different infection states: presymptomatic individuals (who are infectious before developing symptoms) and individuals who never experience symptoms (asymptomatic infections, which we will refer to as never symptomatic). Early modeling studies of COVID-19 case data found that the generation interval of SARS-CoV-2 was shorter than the serial interval, indicating that the average time between 1 person being infected and that person infecting someone else was shorter than the average time between 1 person developing symptoms and the person they infected developing symptoms.2-5 This finding meant that the epidemic was growing faster than would be expected if transmission were limited to the period of illness during which individuals were symptomatic. By the time a second generation of individuals was developing symptoms, a third generation was already being infected. Epidemiological data from early in the pandemic also suggested the possibility of presymptomatic transmission,6,7 and laboratory studies confirmed that levels of viral RNA in respiratory secretions were already high at the time of symptom onset.8-10








						SARS-CoV-2 Transmission From People Without COVID-19 Symptoms
					

This decision analytical model assesses the proportion of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) transmissions in the community that likely occur from persons without symptoms.




					jamanetwork.com


----------



## jc456 (Aug 13, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> Transmission by persons who are infected but do not have any symptoms can arise from 2 different infection states: presymptomatic individuals (who are infectious before developing symptoms) and individuals who never experience symptoms (asymptomatic infections, which we will refer to as never symptomatic). Early modeling studies of COVID-19 case data found that the generation interval of SARS-CoV-2 was shorter than the serial interval, indicating that the average time between 1 person being infected and that person infecting someone else was shorter than the average time between 1 person developing symptoms and the person they infected developing symptoms.2-5 This finding meant that the epidemic was growing faster than would be expected if transmission were limited to the period of illness during which individuals were symptomatic. By the time a second generation of individuals was developing symptoms, a third generation was already being infected. Epidemiological data from early in the pandemic also suggested the possibility of presymptomatic transmission,6,7 and laboratory studies confirmed that levels of viral RNA in respiratory secretions were already high at the time of symptom onset.8-10
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I posted the study stupid


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 13, 2021)

jc456 said:


> I posted the study stupid


I posted a study as well, smartass.


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 13, 2021)

jc456 said:


> Asymptomatic is asymptomatic!! Not contagious! It’s what I’ve been posting! You can’t handle that fact I guess! Strange game you’re playing


Depends on what you mean by asymptomatic. 

You keep avoiding the issue because you know the colonel is wrong and you provided the proof. 

People without symptoms can spread COVID.


----------



## infowar (Aug 13, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie 

  Sounds like a good reason to get vaccinated.  So if it possibly gets spread to you from another vaccinated person, it is extremely unlikely to matter.


----------



## Rigby5 (Aug 13, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> Yes or no question. Do you think only the symptomatic can spread COVID?



Trick question.
Clearly only the symptomatic can spread covid, but they do not have to quite be symptomatic yet when they first can spread it.
A better way to say it is asymptomatic do not spread covid.
And this should be obvious, that being able to spread covid is a symptom,


----------



## Rigby5 (Aug 13, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> Depends on what you mean by asymptomatic.
> 
> You keep avoiding the issue because you know the colonel is wrong and you provided the proof.
> 
> People without symptoms can spread COVID.



Not true.
The ability to spread covid is in itself, a symptom.


----------



## Rigby5 (Aug 13, 2021)

infowar said:


> Adrenochrome Junkie
> 
> Sounds like a good reason to get vaccinated.  So if it possibly gets spread to you from another vaccinated person, it is extremely unlikely to matter.



But one has to then evaluate the risk from getting vaccinated, and since these mRMA pseudo vaccine are not FDA approved, have never before been used and only have a few months of testing, the risks from the vaccines are much higher than from covid.
Remember these is no virus in these vaccines, so it is very unclear what they are going to do.


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 13, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Clearly only the symptomatic can spread covid, but they do not have to quite be symptomatic yet when they first can spread it.


Oh. So they have to be symptomatic to spread it except when they spread it when they aren’t yet symptomatic. 

Just admit people without symptoms spread COVID and stop the mental gymnastics.


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 13, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Not true.
> The ability to spread covid is in itself, a symptom.


That’s nonsense.


----------



## sakinago (Aug 14, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> Quantifying asymptomatic infection and transmission of COVID-19 in New York City using observed cases, serology, and testing capacity
> 
> 
> As health officials face another wave of COVID-19, they require estimates of the proportion of infected cases that develop symptoms, and the extent to which symptomatic and asymptomatic cases contribute to community transmission. Recent asymptomatic testing guidelines are ambiguous. Using an...
> ...


Wtf is this??? I’ve never heard of this publication and strongly suspect them to be a fake one. I don’t see a methods section, nor can I come up with any justification to use the most congested city in America, where it’s damn near impossible to contact trace for this type of study. On top of that, the science was pretty damn well settled that LIKE ALL RESPIRATORY VIRUS BEFORE COVID, ASYMPTOMATIC SPREAD IS NOT A THING. So, they’re going against all other studies out there. This publication really sounds like a gun for hire. Tell us what you want to say and we’ll throw together some data and graphs for you.  Unfortunately there’s a lot of that out there these days.








						Post-lockdown SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acid screening in nearly ten million residents of Wuhan, China - Nature Communications
					

Large-scale population screening can provide insights to levels of ongoing SARS-CoV-2 transmission. Here, the authors report a citywide screening of ~10,000,000 residents of Wuhan and show that SARS-CoV-2 infection prevalence was very low five to eight weeks after the end of lockdown.




					www.nature.com
				












						A study on infectivity of asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 carriers - PubMed
					

In summary, all the 455 contacts were excluded from SARS-CoV-2 infection and we conclude that the infectivity of some asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 carriers might be weak.




					pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				




PS. How’s that vaccine efficacy looking colfax


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 14, 2021)

sakinago said:


> Wtf is this??? I’ve never heard of this publication and strongly suspect them to be a fake one. I don’t see a methods section, nor can I come up with any justification to use the most congested city in America, where it’s damn near impossible to contact trace for this type of study. On top of that, the science was pretty damn well settled that LIKE ALL RESPIRATORY VIRUS BEFORE COVID, ASYMPTOMATIC SPREAD IS NOT A THING. So, they’re going against all other studies out there. This publication really sounds like a gun for hire. Tell us what you want to say and we’ll throw together some data and graphs for you.  Unfortunately there’s a lot of that out there these days.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You’ve never heard of PNAS?

Seriously?


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Aug 14, 2021)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.fda.gov/media/144246/download&ved=2ahUKEwjHxqrV17DyAhWeB50JHX2BAX8QFnoECB4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2xQaC-8UU6GPyKH_yB9IR8
		



“Among 3410 total cases of suspected but unconfirmed COVID-19 in the overall study population, 1594 occurred in the vaccine group vs. 1816 in the placebo group [who received a saltwater shot].”

Those shocking numbers have never seen the light of day in news media.


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 14, 2021)

LordBrownTrout said:


> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.fda.gov/media/144246/download&ved=2ahUKEwjHxqrV17DyAhWeB50JHX2BAX8QFnoECB4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2xQaC-8UU6GPyKH_yB9IR8
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because we can tell the difference between suspected and confirmed COVID cases.


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Aug 14, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> Because we can tell the difference between suspected and confirmed COVID cases.



We could back then also. You missed the point. They didn't tell anyone.


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 14, 2021)

LordBrownTrout said:


> We could back then also. You missed the point. They didn't tell anyone.


Precisely. That’s why no one gets shook up about “suspected” cases when confirmation of COVID is so simple.


----------



## infowar (Aug 14, 2021)

Rigby5

  There is almost zero risk to getting vaccinated.  Whereas at least 624,000 people in the U.S. have died from the coronavirus so far.  Though a little while back when it was "only" 600K, according the the University if Washington's Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluations, the number was closer to 900,000.  (If not a little more)  The coronavirus is at least 3 times deadlier than the flu.  If not for our advanced medical technology, it's hard to say how many people would be dead by now.  As a percentage of our population, no doubt the death toll without that advanced medical technology would have made the death toll in the U.S. during the 1918-1919 Spanish flu outbreak seem like small potatoes in comparison.

  Also, people have been doing vaccines for a long time.  It was way back in 1885 that Louis Pasteur came up with a rabies vaccine.  And the science behind vaccines has improved ever since.  Trust the vaccine.  Trust what the doctors are saying.  Get the vaccine.


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Aug 14, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> Precisely. That’s why no one gets shook up about “suspected” cases when confirmation of COVID is so simple.



No, the number infected was about the same between the placebo and injection. That was never conveyed to the public. Now, we're seeing a terrified public begging for more quantity, third dose.  It's amazing to watch.


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 14, 2021)

LordBrownTrout said:


> No, the number infected was about the same between the placebo and injection. That was never conveyed to the public. Now, we're seeing a terrified public begging for more quantity, third dose.  It's amazing to watch.


The number infected with what exactly? None of the illnesses you’re referring to were from COVID.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 14, 2021)

LordBrownTrout said:


> No, the number infected was about the same between the placebo and injection. That was never conveyed to the public. Now, we're seeing a terrified public begging for more quantity, third dose.  It's amazing to watch.


What the hell are you talking about. Clinical trials have shown that there is a hight efficacy rate for the Covid Vax. Stop lying!


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 14, 2021)

Jim H - VA USA said:


> *Dr. Dan Stock, MD, discusses masks and vaccines (Video).*
> 
> Everything we are doing is wrong.  Everything being recommended by the CDC is inconsistent with established Science and their own data.
> 
> ...



Vaccinations change a lot. Here in Germany we use a calendar for vaccainations (the dates are not so important. If a child is sick feels not well then it's not any problem to make a vaccination later). I do not translate this now - except it is important for the understanding.

-----
2-11 month:

Laut Impfkommission sollten Kinder im ersten Lebensjahr gegen *Diphterie* (D/d), *Keuchhusten* (Pertussis, aP/ap), *Tetanus* (T), *Haemophilus influenza Typ b* (Hib), *Hepatitis B* (HB), *Kinderlähmung* (Poliomyelitis, IPV), *Pneumokokken* und gegen *Rotaviren* geimpft werden. Die Grundimmunisierung sollte ab dem 2. Lebensmonat beginnen und bei Erreichen des 12. Lebensmonats abgeschlossen sein.

Eine Impfung gegen *Grippe* (Influenza) empfiehlt die STIKO trotz der zahlreichen Debatten in jüngster Zeit als Standard-Impfung bislang nur für Personen über 60 Jahre.
(=A vaccination against flu (infkuenza) ... is recommened from the STIKO only for person over 60 years.)

11-15th month:

Ab dem ersten Lebensjahr empfiehlt die STIKO Impfungen gegen *Masern, Mumps und Röteln* (MMR), *Meningokokken* sowie *Windpocken* (Varizellen). (=measels, mumps, rubella, meningococcals, chicken pox)

Da Masern meistens erst im Erwachsenenalter Komplikationen verursachen, raten impfkritische Ärzte, Kinder erst im Schulalter impfen zu lassen. Am Ende des 2. Lebensjahres wird eine vollständige Überprüfung des Impfstatus unbedingt empfohlen.

5-6 years:

Die Impfungen gegen *Diphterie* (D/d), *Keuchhusten* (Pertussis, aP/ap) und *Tetanus* (T) müssen zweimal aufgefrischt werden: das erste Mal im Alter von 5 - 6 Jahren, das zweite Mal im Alter zwischen 9 und 16 Jahren.

9-16 years

*Hepatitis B, weitere Auffrischungen

Kinderlähmung* (Poliomyelitis, IPV) wird zum ersten Mal, *Diphterie* (D/d), *Keuchhusten* (Pertussis, aP/ap) und *Tetanus* (T) zum zweiten Mal aufgefrischt.

Erwachsenen empfiehlt die STIKO alle 10 Jahre die Auffrischung der *Tetanus- und Diphterieimpfung*. Die erste dieser Auffrischungen sollte zusätzlich mit einer Auffrischung der Immunisierung gegen *Keuchhusten* (Pertussis, aP/ap) verbunden sein. Außerdem sollte bei allen nach 1970 Geborenen mit unklarem Impfschutz, keiner Impfung oder nur einer Impfung in der Kindheit ab 18 Jahren zusätzlich eine Masern-Impfung erfolgen.

Ältere Menschen über 60 Jahre sollten sich zudem gegen *Pneumokokken, Grippe* (Influenza) und *Gürtelrose* (Herpes zoster) immunisieren lassen. Ist im Säuglingsstadium keine Grundimmunisierung gegen *Hepatitis B* (HB) vorgenommen worden, kann diese nun ebenfalls erfolgen. Mädchen und Jungen im Alter von 9 bis 14 Jahren sollten gegen *Humane Papilloma-Viren* (HPV können Krebs verursachen) immunisiert werden. Auch die Immunisierung gegen *Windpocken* (Varizellen) sollte überprüft werden.


18 years :

ab 18 Jahre​
*Auffrischungen und Impfungen für Erwachsene*

Erwachsenen empfiehlt die STIKO alle 10 Jahre die Auffrischung der *Tetanus- und Diphterieimpfung*. Die erste dieser Auffrischungen sollte zusätzlich mit einer Auffrischung der Immunisierung gegen *Keuchhusten* (Pertussis, aP/ap) verbunden sein. Außerdem sollte bei allen nach 1970 Geborenen mit unklarem Impfschutz, keiner Impfung oder nur einer Impfung in der Kindheit ab 18 Jahren zusätzlich eine Masern-Impfung erfolgen.

Ältere Menschen über 60 Jahre sollten sich zudem gegen *Pneumokokken, Grippe* (Influenza) und *Gürtelrose* (Herpes zoster) immunisieren lassen.
-----




Jim H - VA USA said:


> The current vaccine is causing anti-body mediated viral enhancement, which has happened for all coronaviruses.



Sars-Co-V2 is not comparable with other Coronavirusses which cause a cold. Let me compare it with snakes. Snakes are harmless - except they are very big (constrictors) or very toxic.



Jim H - VA USA said:


> Vaccines allow the virus to be come worse than it would with native infection.



*A NATIVE INFECTION WITH COVID-19 IS MUCH MORE DANGEROUS IN AVERAGE THAN ANY VACCINATION.*



Jim H - VA USA said:


> 75% of symptomatic COVID cases in Cape Cod were of fully-vaccinated individuals.



That's impossible. We had by the way to arrest in Germany a nurse who destroyed vaccines and vaccinated instead with saline solution. Because she said nothing to her heavy crime we had to revaccinate in a worst case scenario about 8500 people.





Jim H - VA USA said:


> Therefore vaccinated and unvaccinated should be treated equally. Vaccinated individuals are shedding virus.



If so then everyone shoud try to get immediatelly a vaccination against Covid-19.



Jim H - VA USA said:


> The vaccines don't do exactly what you want them to do.  These summer outbreaks are unusual, and being driven by the vaccinated.
> 
> People who had COVID get no benefit at all from vaccination,



It's more than only stupid to say this. The vast majorite in intensive care in hospitals are not vaccinated.



Jim H - VA USA said:


> and they get reactions to the vaccines at four to six times the previously uninfected.



What's wrong with you? Why do you spread such a stupid deadly nonsense?



Jim H - VA USA said:


> Everything we are doing is wrong and unscientific.



Exactly. Everything what you said here is wrong and has nothing to do with real science.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 14, 2021)

sakinago said:


> No, the data is clear now. Look at all the most heavily vaccinated countries and regions. Anywhere from 40%-60% (100% for Gibraltar) of their new COVID patients are fully vaccinated(see Israel, UK, Iceland). Massachusetts has the 2nd highest vaccination rate in the states and is at 48% (as of 2 weeks ago) of their new patients are fully vaccinated. These numbers aren’t including those who already have already recovered and have naturally immunity (which actually works agains the delta).
> 
> Folks, none of this should be a surprise. I’ve started a couple threads on this subject. We’ve never made a vaccine for this type of rapidly mutating RNA virus



It is extremely slowly mutating. The problem: It exist much too many from this virusses. The solution: Worldwide vaccinations and reduction of the number of virusses before a virus mutates and starts to be resistent against immunisations.



sakinago said:


> for this exact reason. By the time a vaccine is made and distributed, it will become old news. This is what we’re seeing


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 14, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Good post, but a slight correction is I hate when people say "mutates".
> Mutations are totally random damage, like from radiation.
> Almost all mutations are dead, and it would take on the order of a million years for one to accidentally be viable and better.
> That can not happen in life times.
> ...



The correct expressions is "variants" - not mutations. But the problem is the same. It's an elementary change. The # of virusses have to be drastically reduced. And in case of such a piece of chemical virus structure without any feelings and intentions I had no problem to reduce it to zero - if possible to do so.



Rigby5 said:


> Since you understand the vax is just a spike protein, imagine if it accidentally taught the immune system to start to attack the spike protein of our own exosomes?



?


----------



## sakinago (Aug 15, 2021)

infowar said:


> Rigby5
> 
> There is almost zero risk to getting vaccinated.  Whereas at least 624,000 people in the U.S. have died from the coronavirus so far.  Though a little while back when it was "only" 600K, according the the University if Washington's Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluations, the number was closer to 900,000.  (If not a little more)  The coronavirus is at least 3 times deadlier than the flu.  If not for our advanced medical technology, it's hard to say how many people would be dead by now.  As a percentage of our population, no doubt the death toll without that advanced medical technology would have made the death toll in the U.S. during the 1918-1919 Spanish flu outbreak seem like small potatoes in comparison.
> 
> Also, people have been doing vaccines for a long time.  It was way back in 1885 that Louis Pasteur came up with a rabies vaccine.  And the science behind vaccines has improved ever since.  Trust the vaccine.  Trust what the doctors are saying.  Get the vaccine.


Idiot, you need to stop talking. What your saying applies to standard vaccines. This is not a standard vaccine with an inactive/dead virus. The whole safety of this vaccine hinges on the is the hope it does not leave the injection site. These vaccines work by telling your cells protein factory’s to make the spike protein of the virus. This is the very same spike protein that is cytotoxic, causing the inflammation and micro clotting that some a vulnerable too. Big pharma did a half ass job (on purpose, they used they wrong test) at making sure the spike proteins don’t travel. They do. We know that for a fact. This is why the adverse events look a lot like a COVID infection. 

So, these vaccines give people the worst part of COVID, and only provide a very narrow immunity strictly to the spike protein, not to the entire virus like natural immunity does. This is a problem because with this type of rapidly mutating RNA virus, all the virus has to do to beat the vaccine is change its spike protein. Which is why the vaccines are now failing. They are no longer providing immunity, nor do they prevent person to person infection.

Here’s the VAERS data.





						COVID Vaccine Landing
					

VAERS




					www.openvaers.com


----------



## sakinago (Aug 15, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> You’ve never heard of PNAS?
> 
> Seriously?


Nope. Do you wish to give us the scientific explanation on why this virus, like none before it, somehow has the ability to spread asymptomatically? Idk I guess the body doesn’t detect or fight off an infection raging enough to be shedding, but somehow no symptoms or damage shows up? As nonsensical that is, that’d be your best answer.


----------



## sakinago (Aug 15, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> It is extremely slowly mutating. The problem: It exist much too many from this virusses. The solution: Worldwide vaccinations and reduction of the number of virusses before a virus mutates and starts to be resistent against immunisations.


You’re just pulling shit out of your ass now. Why are RNA virus mutation rates so damn high?
You sound like a kid telling their parents how to drive, and that they should have their left foot on the break, and right foot on the gas. You do not know what you’re talking about. 

That’s literally the first link that comes up. On top of that...THE VACCINE HAS ALREADY FAILED. Are you not paying attention to what’s happening???? Clearly your not. There’s already been over 2,000 confirmed strains, probably at least hundreds of thousands that aren’t confirmed. The virus was always going to escape the vaccine. This is just how viral/micro evolution works. You put a mass evolutionary pressure on something that multiplies and mutates as fast a microorganisms, the mutation that’s resistant will rise to the top. You over-treat with methicillin, you get methicillin resistant staphylococcus aureus(MRSA).


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 15, 2021)

sakinago said:


> Idiot, you need to stop talking. What your saying applies to standard vaccines. This is not a standard vaccine with an inactive/dead virus. The whole safety of this vaccine hinges on the is the hope it does not leave the injection site. These vaccines work by telling your cells protein factory’s to make the spike protein of the virus. This is the very same spike protein that is cytotoxic, causing the inflammation and micro clotting that some a vulnerable too. Big pharma did a half ass job (on purpose, they used they wrong test) at making sure the spike proteins don’t travel. They do. We know that for a fact. This is why the adverse events look a lot like a COVID infection.
> 
> So, these vaccines give people the worst part of COVID, and only provide a very narrow immunity strictly to the spike protein, not to the entire virus like natural immunity does. This is a problem because with this type of rapidly mutating RNA virus, all the virus has to do to beat the vaccine is change its spike protein. Which is why the vaccines are now failing. They are no longer providing immunity, nor do they prevent person to person infection.
> 
> ...


Your source is bullshit. It is a manipulation of actual CDC data









						OpenVaers
					

RIGHT BIAS These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may




					mediabiasfactcheck.com
				











> These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. T*hey may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports*, and omit information that may damage conservative causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy. See all Right Bias sources.






> *Overall, we rate OpenVAERS Right Biased based on editorial positions that advocate for conservative vaccine hesitancy. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting based on taking unvetted data from VAERS literally and promoting misleading information based on the data.*


----------



## sakinago (Aug 15, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Your source is bullshit. It is a manipulation of actual CDC data
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They. Download. Their. Data. Directly. From. The. CDC. There is no manipulation. You just don’t have to go in and select all the necessary booleans. The CDC VAERS database is notoriously hard to use, and extremely clunky. Worse than pubmed. They literally make no political statements whatsoever. Just data. How they can be claimed as right wing is insane. I guess the CDC is right wing too.


----------



## Jim H - VA USA (Aug 15, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Vaccinations change a lot. Here in Germany we use a calendar for vaccainations (the dates are not so important. If a child is sick feels not well then it's not any problem to make a vaccination later). I do not translate this now - except it is important for the understanding.
> 
> -----
> 2-11 month:
> ...


Read and comprehend.  Learn something...

*Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens*



			https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198&type=printable


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 15, 2021)

sakinago said:


> You’re just pulling shit out of your ass now.



One moment - did you now say to me _"Du pobelst Scheiße aus deinem Hintern"_? What a luck that you are not a German. You would be dead now and I would be in prison.



sakinago said:


> Why are RNA virus mutation rates so damn high?



The mutation rate of influenza is high - the mutation rate of Corona-2 is low. But it exist much too many Corona-2 virusses, so also dangerous variants came.



sakinago said:


> You sound like a kid telling their parents how to drive,



Never one of my kids tried to tell me how I have to drive.



sakinago said:


> and that they should have their left foot on the break, and right foot on the gas. You do not know what you’re talking about.



Sigh. When will you come to the point "best behavior under the pressure of a pandemic"?



sakinago said:


> That’s literally the first link that comes up. On top of that...THE VACCINE HAS ALREADY FAILED.



Not here in Germany - everything works meanwhile much better than we feared - thanks of vaccinations.



sakinago said:


> Are you not paying attention to what’s happening???? Clearly your not. There’s already been over 2,000 confirmed strains, probably at least hundreds of thousands that aren’t confirmed. The virus was always going to escape the vaccine.



That's nonsense. Who is vaccinated has best chances to survive.



sakinago said:


> This is just how viral/micro evolution works.



No - this is not how evolution works. A virus which not fits dies. So a virsus which lands on a stone will die (worst scenario for the virus) . And a virus which will land in a human being will produce descendents (best scenario for the virus.).

Here specially: A virus will produce much less descdendents if the immune system is ready to fight = if someone is vaccinated. So the not vaccinated people take take care for a higher number of virusses - and more possibilities for mutations.



sakinago said:


> You put a mass evolutionary pressure on something that multiplies and mutates as fast a microorganisms, the mutation that’s resistant will rise to the top. You over-treat with methicillin, you get methicillin resistant staphylococcus aureus(MRSA).



You are simplifying evolution. In my example it's clear that a virus never will be able to infect a stone. And you said on your own very clear an "over-treat with methicillin" caused resistance in case of some bacteriae. Short: The existence of an immune system and a training of an immune system (=vaccination)  is not able to be an "over-treat". The best is everyone is vaccinated, then the virusses will have not any chance to reproduce themselve any longer. The less virusses exist the lower is the danger of mutations or variants. The lower the speed of vaccinations the worse.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 15, 2021)

Jim H - VA USA said:


> Read and comprehend.  Learn something...
> 
> *Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens*



I deleted your link and did not read this in-depth because to say so is totally stupid. A vaccination trains the own immune system - an immune system produces no virulent pathogens. And an imperfect vaccination is just simple not so powerful as it could be - but even this is always better than to do nothing. The most dangerous way is the "vaccination" with the active deadly virus itselve.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 15, 2021)

sakinago said:


> They. Download. Their. Data. Directly. From. The. CDC. There is no manipulation. You just don’t have to go in and select all the necessary booleans. The CDC VAERS database is notoriously hard to use, and extremely clunky. Worse than pubmed. They literally make no political statements whatsoever. Just data. How they can be claimed as right wing is insane. I guess the CDC is right wing too.


They publish selective data from the CDC  showing the rae number of adverse reactions that were reported but fail to point out that a vast niumber of people have gotten the vaxx with no reaction which results in a very low percentage of reactions









						COVID-19 Vaccination
					

COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.




					www.cdc.gov


----------



## sakinago (Aug 15, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> They publish selective data from the CDC  showing the rae number of adverse reactions that were reported but fail to point out that a vast niumber of people have gotten the vaxx with no reaction which results in a very low percentage of reactions
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A. The raw data is the raw data. There is nothing misleading. That’s insane to call it misleading. You don’t compare to how many have received vs how many adverse reactions there are.  Virtually zero drugs, vaccines, implants would ever be rejected if that was the case. An injury rate at 1% for a drug that’s distributed by the millions is a lot of fucking injuries, and a big fat ole class action lawsuit. This is the most dangerous vaccine ever created. More deaths and adverse events than all other vaccines combined since the inception of VAERS. Drugs and vaccines have been halted for far far less. There are hard facts you nor anyone else can evade. 
1. These vaccines have your body produce the spike protein. 
2. The spike protein is cytotoxic. 
3. The spike protein leaves the injection site. 
4. The spike protein causes injuries to those who are susceptible
There ya have it. You can’t get around those facts 

B.  A vast number of adverse reactions are going underreported. For one the CDC is incredibly backlogged with reports. Once a report is made the CDC has to request the medical records to confirm that it is likely a vaccine related injury. Then it gets posted onto VAERS. The CDC is not at all keeping up with 100 times the traffic they’re used too. On top of that, there’s been a concentration to get the elderly vaccinated. If the spike protein causes clotting, and grandma gets a stroke, how many ER docs are putting two and two together since grandmas tend to have strokes around their age. Also, not all countries use or are trained to use the VAERS database. Vaccinations are happening worldwide. It’s widely known that a lot of young people experience intense COVID like symptoms after vaccination. Many in the church of fauci consider it a badge of honor bizarrely. It’s no wonder that’s happening since we’re instructing their young, healthy, efficient, and robust cells to produce the damn cytotoxic spike protein. Effectively none of them are taking the time to tell their docs to report that to VAERS.

C. THE FUCKING VACCINES ARENT EVEN WORKING. Why are we even having this conversation? They don’t work. They were never going to work. Maybe the novavax will be different since it’s a traditional vaccine presenting our immune systems with a more complete antigen array, vs just the spike protein. But the virus will eventually beat that since it’s impossible to vaccinate the entire world at once.


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 15, 2021)

sakinago said:


> Nope. Do you wish to give us the scientific explanation on why this virus, like none before it, somehow has the ability to spread asymptomatically? Idk I guess the body doesn’t detect or fight off an infection raging enough to be shedding, but somehow no symptoms or damage shows up? As nonsensical that is, that’d be your best answer.


Tons of viruses spread asymptomatically. 

PNAS stands for proceedings of the national academy of science. It’s famous enough that it’s often just referred to as proceedings. It had an impact factor of over 11. It’s one of the most renowned journals in science.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 15, 2021)

sakinago said:


> A. The raw data is the raw data. There is nothing misleading. That’s insane to call it misleading. You don’t compare to how many have received vs how many adverse reactions there are.  Virtually zero drugs, vaccines, implants would ever be rejected if that was the case. An injury rate at 1% for a drug that’s distributed by the millions is a lot of fucking injuries, and a big fat ole class action lawsuit. This is the most dangerous vaccine ever created. More deaths and adverse events than all other vaccines combined since the inception of VAERS. Drugs and vaccines have been halted for far far less. There are hard facts you nor anyone else can evade.
> 1. These vaccines have your body produce the spike protein.
> 2. The spike protein is cytotoxic.
> 3. The spike protein leaves the injection site.
> ...


You have sure swallowed a boatload of bizarre bovine excrement. You lie and people die. You have blood on your hands!


----------



## sakinago (Aug 15, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> One moment - did you now say to me _"Du pobelst Scheiße aus deinem Hintern"_? What a luck that you are not a German. You would be dead now and I would be in prison.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You’re translator is shit. Also, Germany is one of the least vaccinated countries in the west, and they seem to be right in the middle of the pack with infections in Europe.

I don’t care if your kids ever tried to teach you how to drive. It’s a metaphor. In that metaphor you are the kid trying to tell your parents how to drive.

You also clearly don’t understand how this vaccine works. They can’t even be called vaccines at this point. At best they are therapeutics. I digress. These are mRNA vaccines. Meaning they inject you with messenger-RNA(mRNA). mRNA is a blueprint for the protein factories in your cells to make proteins. The strand of mRNA you are injected with is one that tells your protein factories to create the spike protein that is on the surface of the virus. That’s one single protein out of many that the virus contains. Those spike proteins are cytotoxic and are what is causing the cytokine storms in the people who are susceptible to it. That’s the crazy inflammation and micro clotting. The idea was to have your body build immunity to the spike protein. More accurately to train your body to make antibodies against the spike protein. They kept a binding receptor open on the spike protein in order to make it more “sticky” so that it never left the cells at the injection site. That’s not working. The spike protein is traveling all over the body. Naturally acquired immunity on the other hand will train your body to make antibodies against all the parts of the virus, including but not limited to the spike protein. Basically, the vaccine has only one mechanism of action, to train your body to create antibodies against the spike protein. In contrast, natural immunity will train your body to make antibodies for all parts of the virus, not just the spike protein. So, all the virus has to do is mutate the spike protein, which it already has, so that it is resistant to the antibodies that would be produced from these mRNA vaccines. This has already happened. Look at Gibraltar, look at Israel, look at the UK, look at Iceland. All these countries are among the most heavily vaccinated in the world and are all being rocked by the delta variant. I can’t explain that in any other simpler terms.


----------



## badger2 (Aug 15, 2021)

Both vaxxed and unvaxxed have the same viral loads in their mouths and throats. The “superspreader” term cannot be applied to just the vaxxed. Both the unvaxxed and vaxxed support’s it’s own unique mutating population of virus, and the Delta variant did not arise via only the vaxxed population of mutating viruses.


----------



## sakinago (Aug 15, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> Tons of viruses spread asymptomatically.
> 
> PNAS stands for proceedings of the national academy of science. It’s famous enough that it’s often just referred to as proceedings. It had an impact factor of over 11. It’s one of the most renowned journals in science.


Respiratory viruses? No.








						WHO Clarifies Statement That Asymptomatic Spread of Coronavirus Is 'Very Rare'
					

The WHO health expert who made the comment yesterday said that it was a "misunderstanding" of research on the topic




					people.com
				




This has been one of the biggest lies from the get go. That and “we don’t know how long natural immunity lasts”, and the whole “re-infection” is possible. That’s the side your on. It’s clearly misleading. Aren’t you mad yet about getting peed on being told it’s raining?


----------



## colfax_m (Aug 15, 2021)

sakinago said:


> 2. The spike protein is cytotoxic.


Nope. Nope. Nope.


----------



## sakinago (Aug 15, 2021)

colfax_m said:


> Nope. Nope. Nope.


Uh yup. It’s been known for a while.


			https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.121.318902
		


Now, the claim is that “the vaccine spike protein works different”, simply because they left open the receptor on it, thus making it more “sticky”. I’m still waiting for your explanation on how this virus, unlike the trillions of respiratory viruses that came before, can somehow transmit asymptomatically. But now I’d like to hear what exactly is causing the body wide flu like symptoms in many young people (older people too), but notably young people, if that “sticky” spike protein is never able to leave the injection site. This should also be interesting to hear.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 15, 2021)

sakinago said:


> A. The raw data is the raw data. There is nothing misleading. That’s insane to call it misleading. You don’t compare to how many have received vs how many adverse reactions there are.  Virtually zero drugs, vaccines, implants would ever be rejected if that was the case. An injury rate at 1% for a drug that’s distributed by the millions is a lot of fucking injuries, and a big fat ole class action lawsuit. This is the most dangerous vaccine ever created.



One moment. Do you speak here abot the vaccines from Pfizer/Biontech and moderna? It's exactly in the opposite. Vaccines against smallpox were more dangerous - but were nevertheless a big success for the eradiction of the much more dangerous smallpox. Before the people tried to help themselve with a natural "vaccination" with chickenpox, called "chickenpox parties". Some people made Corona paties in a total misunderstanding of this form of vaccaination. Who got chickenpox as a child was more save to get no smallpox. Who made a Corona party was in danger to get very heavy reactions, was able to die and has also the risk of long-covid problems.

I case of the mRNA-vaccines some harmless parts of the virus will be used which activate the immune system, so it learns to produce faster a better response if a real Corona 2 virus will appear. The parts of the virus which are used will be gone after 50 hours. And this was by the way also my own experience with my vaccination. 2-3 days I had little problems - comparable to a cold.




sakinago said:


> More deaths and adverse events than all other vaccines combined since the inception of VAERS. Drugs and vaccines have been halted for far far less.



This is just simple wrong and nonsense. A vaccine is no drug.



sakinago said:


> There are hard facts you nor anyone else can evade.
> 1. These vaccines have your body produce the spike protein.
> 2. The spike protein is cytotoxic.
> 3. The spike protein leaves the injection site.
> ...



I don't have any idea where this absurde information comes from which you use here. Nearly all people who need intensive care in case of Corona are not vaccinated. And if a little harmless part of the virus produces for example an allergical reaction, which is normally easily able to be brought under control - what do you think what will happen if a bigger part of the virus - or even the complete virus - will be used? How should this able to be more harmless? And where is any fact which shows what you say here has anytung to do with reality?

And sure we are able to vaccinate the entire world "at once". In the very short time now was produced an immense amount of vaccines - and the handling of this vaccines is now more easy as it had been in the beginning. What for you seems to be a long time happens indeed in super speed. Before this pandemic started it needed in average 8-10 years to produce a vaccine. Thanks the help of god and excellent scientists worldwide which made many studies we are in a very good position now. So don't try to meet an iceberg, Captain Ahab. There's not any need to let your ship sink.  Let vaccinate you! Now!


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 15, 2021)

sakinago said:


> You’re translator is shit.



Don't call me "shit". I hate this.



sakinago said:


> Also, Germany is one of the least vaccinated countries in the west,



We were the first who had a vaccine. The vaccine from Biontecn/Pfizer is from Germany. But we did not seek for a privileged position compared with all other European nations. This made the start here a little slow.



sakinago said:


> and they seem to be right in the middle of the pack with infections in Europe.



?



sakinago said:


> I don’t care if your kids ever tried to teach you how to drive.



So why did you use this "argument"?



sakinago said:


> It’s a metaphor.



I know. And I answered with reality.



sakinago said:


> In that metaphor you are the kid trying to tell your parents how to drive.



Sorry - But Germany is more a kind of grandfather nation of the USA.



sakinago said:


> You also clearly don’t understand how this vaccine works. They can’t even be called vaccines at this point. At best they are therapeutics. I digress. These are mRNA vaccines.



We needed 2 days to make them - and months to test them.



sakinago said:


> Meaning they inject you with messenger-RNA(mRNA). mRNA is a blueprint for the protein factories in your cells to make proteins. The strand of mRNA you are injected with is one that tells your protein factories to create the spike protein that is on the surface of the virus.



As fr as I undertsood the reasom for the use of mRNA was not to produce genetical waste in the human DNA.



sakinago said:


> That’s one single protein out of many that the virus contains. Those spike proteins are cytotoxic and are what is causing the cytokine storms in the people who are susceptible to it.



Nice fantasy story. Alcohol is a cytotoxine. That's one reason I never drink alcohol. Do you? And how many liters of vaccines do have to drink to have the same effect if it has such an effect at all? Virusses kill cells for their reproduction and more and more cells the better they are able to reproduce themselves.



sakinago said:


> That’s the crazy inflammation and micro clotting. The idea was to have your body build immunity to the spike protein. More accurately to train your body to make antibodies against the spike protein. They kept a binding receptor open on the spike protein in order to make it more “sticky” so that it never left the cells at the injection site. That’s not working.



The vaccination works.



sakinago said:


> The spike protein is traveling all over the body.



Eberything what's in the blood is traveling all over the body. After about 50 hours they will be gone.



sakinago said:


> Naturally acquired immunity



What means this? A vaccination with the fully active deadly virus?



sakinago said:


> on the other hand will train your body to make antibodies against all the parts of the virus, including but not limited to the spike protein. Basically, the vaccine has only one mechanism of action, to train your body to create antibodies against the spike protein. In contrast, natural immunity will train your body to make antibodies for all parts of the virus, not just the spike protein. So, all the virus has to do is mutate the spike protein, which it already has, so that it is resistant to the antibodies that would be produced from these mRNA vaccines. This has already happened. Look at Gibraltar, look at Israel, look at the UK, look at Iceland. All these countries are among the most heavily vaccinated in the world



GB used a vector-vaccine, Israel a mRNA vaccine and I guess in Iceland they use Thors hammer to dengle down every single virus.



sakinago said:


> and are all being rocked by the delta variant.



What has absolutelly nothing to do with vaccines, except that the effciency goes a little down.




sakinago said:


> I can’t explain that in any other simpler terms.



You cannot explain what you do not understand. Short: The intensive care units in some republican states of the USA are full of people who are not vaccinated! And all of the not vaccinated covid-19 patients regret the wrong decisions not to make a vaccination. And I regret to lose my cowboys. So, cowboy: Let you vaccinate !!! Start to fight against this damned virus and don't fight the fighters against this virus ! Slowly you should understand how damned dangerous it is what you are doing.


----------



## sakinago (Aug 16, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> One moment. Do you speak here abot the vaccines from Pfizer/Biontech and moderna? It's exactly in the opposite. Vaccines against smallpox were more dangerous - but were nevertheless a big success for the eradiction of the much more dangerous smallpox. Before the people tried to help themselve with a natural "vaccination" with chickenpox, called "chickenpox parties". Some people made Corona paties in a total misunderstanding of this form of vaccaination. Who got chickenpox as a child was more save to get no smallpox. Who made a Corona party was in danger to get very heavy reactions, was able to die and has also the risk of long-covid problems.
> 
> I case of the mRNA-vaccines some harmless parts of the virus will be used which activate the immune system, so it learns to produce faster a better response if a real Corona 2 virus will appear. The parts of the virus which are used will be gone after 50 hours. And this was by the way also my own experience with my vaccination. 2-3 days I had little problems - comparable to a cold.
> 
> ...


Captain Ahab is the captain in moby dick, not captain of the titanic. It is also not me calling the vaccine a drug, this is now the claim of the manufacturers. They now admit it does NOT provide 95% protection against symptomatic infection like they claimed originally (and may have been true for the alpha strain). We’re now dealing with the delta strain. The manufacturers now claim that while it DOES NOT protect against symptomatic infection, nor spread, it supposedly protects against the more intense symptoms. That may be true (I doubt it) but even that protection does not cover all who get the jab. Just look at Israel, over 70% of the population is vaccinated, effectively every adult, and they’re now having a bigger problem with the delta strain than they did the alpha. The vast majority of their patients are FULLY VACCINATED. You need to update your information on the vaccine.

It also 100% uses the spike protein of the virus that is cytotoxic. If it was a harmless part of the virus, like you claim, than there would be no need for the manufacturers to claim that “the vaccine does not leave the injection site”. If it was harmless, who cares that it leaves the injection site. The information I’m getting comes from the CDC and the manufacturers.


----------



## sakinago (Aug 16, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Don't call me "shit". I hate this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The last statistic you state about republican states is 100% false. The claim that “90% (or how ever many) of those in the hospital aren’t vaccinated” is from December/January...when 90% of the US population wasn’t vaccinated. Things have since changed rapidly. Massachusetts, the 2nd most vaccinated state in the union, as of 2 weeks ago 48% of all their new COVID cases came from the fully vaccinated. Mind you, the most common symptom of the delta is a headache. How many people are getting the jab, having a headache, and not at all contributing it to COVID. Probably most. 

I did not call you shit either. The translation application you’re using is shit.

The UK mostly use an adenovirus vaccine. It’s a different way to get to the same goal of having your own cells produce the spike protein.

It also does not matter how long the vaccine mRNA and capsules remain in the body. What matters is how long the billions of resulting spike protein are in the body. That’s the cytotoxic part.

Alcohol does not cause cytokine storms like the COVID spike protein does, does it? So why are you bringing up alcohol?

A traditional vaccine, unlike the mRNA vaccine, uses either an inactive or dead, sometimes even a weakened virus. There are much more antigens(pieces of the virus that the immune system can recognize to attack with specifically built antibodies for those pieces) on the dead viruses in traditional vaccines, as compared too the one single spike protein in these vaccines. Like I said before, all the virus has to do to beat these mRNA vaccines is change its spike protein, versus a complete makeover it would need to beat a traditional vaccine.


----------



## sakinago (Aug 16, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> You have sure swallowed a boatload of bizarre bovine excrement. You lie and people die. You have blood on your hands!


Name one thing I said that was false


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 16, 2021)

sakinago said:


> Captain Ahab is the captain in moby dick, not captain of the titanic.



My god - now I'm totally perplexed.



sakinago said:


> It is also not me calling the vaccine a drug,



A vaccine and a drug are totally different things. You are confused.



sakinago said:


> this is now the claim of the manufacturers. They now admit it does NOT provide 95% protection against symptomatic infection like they claimed originally (and may have been true for the alpha strain). We’re now dealing with the delta strain. The manufacturers now claim that while it DOES NOT protect against symptomatic infection, nor spread, it supposedly protects against the more intense symptoms. That may be true (I doubt it) but even that protection does not cover all who get the jab. Just look at Israel, over 70% of the population is vaccinated, effectively every adult, and they’re now having a bigger problem with the delta strain than they did the alpha.#



Do they? ... I see nothing special in the moment in the data from Israel. I guess so called "orthodox Jews" are still so mad to ignore the current pandemic.



sakinago said:


> The vast majority of their patients are FULLY VACCINATED. You need to update your information on the vaccine.



That's nonsense. If everyone is vaccinated then everyone who is in a hospital on whatever reason is vaccinated too.



sakinago said:


> It also 100% uses the spike protein of the virus that is cytotoxic.



It is bullshit what you say.



sakinago said:


> If it was a harmless part of the virus, like you claim, than there would be no need for the manufacturers to claim that “the vaccine does not leave the injection site”. If it was harmless, who cares that it leaves the injection site.



¿What for heavens sake do you speak about here? 




sakinago said:


> The information I’m getting comes from the CDC and the manufacturers.



Which information?


----------



## JustAGuy1 (Aug 16, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> You have sure swallowed a boatload of bizarre bovine excrement. You lie and people die. You have blood on your hands!



Well that's a lie.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 16, 2021)

sakinago said:


> The last statistic you state about republican states is 100% false.



I had not statistics. I heard what doctors and nurses said about the situation in their clinic.



sakinago said:


> The claim that “90% (or how ever many) of those in the hospital aren’t vaccinated” is from December/January...when 90% of the US population wasn’t vaccinated.



Now in the moment they have problems. It's partially the worst situation in some hospitals of the USA since the pandemic started. Main reason: idiotic politicians and an idiotic anti-immunization lobby



sakinago said:


> Things have since changed rapidly. Massachusetts, the 2nd most vaccinated state in the union, as of 2 weeks ago 48% of all their new COVID cases came from the fully vaccinated.



That's impossible.



sakinago said:


> Mind you, the most common symptom of the delta is a headache. How many people are getting the jab, having a headache, and not at all contributing it to COVID. Probably most.



Why do you speak such a totally stupid nonsense. You lost more than 600,000 people. With hidden cases it are probably more than 900,000.



sakinago said:


> I did not call you shit either. The translation application you’re using is shit.



Which dictionary do you suggest I should use?



sakinago said:


> The UK mostly use an adenovirus vaccine. It’s a different way to get to the same goal of having your own cells produce the spike protein.



What?



sakinago said:


> It also does not matter how long the vaccine mRNA and capsules remain in the body.



50 hours.



sakinago said:


> What matters is how long the billions of resulting spike protein are in the body.



50 hours - whatever a spike protein might be in your view to the world.



sakinago said:


> That’s the cytotoxic part.



Good grief. Where from comes this bullshit now? The vaccine destroys not cells. The virus  destroys cells.



sakinago said:


> Alcohol does not cause cytokine storms like the COVID spike protein does, does it?



Good grief. Did you ever see drunken people? They are nearly brain-dead. Did you ever see vaccinated people?



sakinago said:


> So why are you bringing up alcohol?



Because alcohol is the most well known cytotoxin.



sakinago said:


> A traditional vaccine, unlike the mRNA vaccine, uses either an inactive or dead, sometimes even a weakened virus.



This was so a very long time in the past.



sakinago said:


> There are much more antigens(pieces of the virus that the immune system can recognize to attack with specifically built antibodies for those pieces) on the dead viruses in traditional vaccines, as compared too the one single spike protein in these vaccines. Like I said before, all the virus has to do to beat these mRNA vaccines is change its spike protein, versus a complete makeover it would need to beat a traditional vaccine.



Use a vector-vaccine instead of a mRNA-vaccine. Here in Germany the people prefer very clear mRNA vaccines.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 16, 2021)

sakinago said:


> A. The raw data is the raw data. There is nothing misleading. That’s insane to call it misleading. You don’t compare to how many have received vs how many adverse reactions there are.  Virtually zero drugs, vaccines, implants would ever be rejected if that was the case. An injury rate at 1% for a drug that’s distributed by the millions is a lot of fucking injuries, and a big fat ole class action lawsuit. This is the most dangerous vaccine ever created. More deaths and adverse events than all other vaccines combined since the inception of VAERS. Drugs and vaccines have been halted for far far less. There are hard facts you nor anyone else can evade.
> 1. These vaccines have your body produce the spike protein.
> 2. The spike protein is cytotoxic.
> 3. The spike protein leaves the injection site.
> ...


Actually you argument fall apart at you #2 point









						PolitiFact - No sign that the COVID-19 vaccines’ spike protein is toxic or ‘cytotoxic’
					

The headline on a YouTube video and a person who speaks in it make a troubling claim about the way the COVID-19 vaccines




					www.politifact.com
				




And # 3 is the nail in the coffin









						Claims that Covid vaccine spike proteins are harmful are unevidenced - Full Fact
					

A Conservative Woman article repeats claims from a Canadian vaccine scientist that appear to be based on flawed assumptions.




					fullfact.org


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 16, 2021)

sakinago said:


> A. The raw data is the raw data. There is nothing misleading. That’s insane to call it misleading. You don’t compare to how many have received vs how many adverse reactions there are.


PS Bullshit! It is indeed misleading. I explained why


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 16, 2021)

sakinago said:


> B. A vast number of adverse reactions are going underreported. For one the CDC is incredibly backlogged with reports. Once a report is made the CDC has to request the medical records to confirm that it is likely a vaccine related injury. Then it gets posted onto VAERS. The CDC is not at all keeping up with 100 times the traffic they’re used too. On top of that, there’s been a concentration to get the elderly vaccinated. If the spike protein causes clotting, and grandma gets a stroke, how many ER docs are putting two and two together since grandmas tend to have strokes around their age. Also, not all countries use or are trained to use the VAERS database. Vaccinations are happening worldwide. It’s widely known that a lot of young people experience intense COVID like symptoms after vaccination. Many in the church of fauci consider it a badge of honor bizarrely. It’s no wonder that’s happening since we’re instructing their young, healthy, efficient, and robust cells to produce the damn cytotoxic spike protein. Effectively none of them are taking the time to tell their docs to report that to VAERS.


We know how many people are dying of Covid!


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Aug 16, 2021)

sakinago said:


> C. THE FUCKING VACCINES ARENT EVEN WORKING. Why are we even having this conversation? They don’t work. They were never going to work. Maybe the novavax will be different since it’s a traditional vaccine presenting our immune systems with a more complete antigen array, vs just the spike protein. But the virus will eventually beat that since it’s impossible to vaccinate the entire world at once.


Complete equine excrement. I don't actually think that you are stupid enough to believe that.m The vast majority of those getting seriously sick or dying are UNVACCINATED


----------



## sakinago (Aug 16, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> My god - now I'm totally perplexed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





			https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.121.318902?cookieSet=1
		


If you didn’t know that the spike protein is what the mRNA vaccines are producing, nor that it is cytotoxic, you need to shut the fuck up ASAP. You are way out of your league. You keep applying what’s true for traditional vaccines for other diseases to these vaccines.

Go back, look at my description on how these vaccines work. Then actually research yourself on how they work and see if I am telling the truth or not. Then we might be able to have an actual discussion.

I call these vaccines a therapeutic, because that’s what they are. They no longer prevent disease or spread of the disease. At best they only lessen the severity of the disease.

I also have a thread in the CDZ about the vaccination numbers and breakthrough infections in Israel, as well as other heavily vaccinated countries. It’s from about a month ago, and the situation has only gotten worse for these countries, especially Israel.


----------



## sakinago (Aug 16, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> I had not statistics. I heard what doctors and nurses said about the situation in their clinic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1. What specific part of the of the virus causes the cytokines storms, inflammation, and the micro clotting???? Look it up. Research for yourself.

2. Now look up how these mRNA vaccines work, and what they have your cells produce.

3. The spike protein is not in the vaccines. It is a result of the vaccines. The mRNA in the vaccines are blueprints to make the spike proteins. That mRNA in the vaccine lasts a couple of days, correct. The spike protein thats made from the mRNA does not. That can last much much longer in the body.

4. The Massachusetts data I posted is 100% correct, other than the fact that it is a few weeks old, and the situation has become even worse than stated.
Here you can find a weekly number for breakthrough infections in Massachusetts.








						Massachusetts Has Now Reported More Than 5,000 Breakthrough COVID Infections, 80 Deaths
					

The rate of fully vaccinated people ending up in the hospital remains low.




					boston.cbslocal.com
				



And the state website here shows total COVID infections for that week. 


			https://www.mass.gov/doc/covid-19-raw-data-july-23-2021/download
		

A little bit of simple math will show you that for the week listed in that article, 48% of new infections for that week are from the fully vaccinated.


----------



## sakinago (Aug 16, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Actually you argument fall apart at you #2 point
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No falling apart or nails in coffins here. See, unlike you, I’m an MSRN. I’ve been reading medical journals since I was a lad with a single patient in clinicals, having to justify why fluffing a pillow for a patient was a good idea with medical literature. I do not get my science news from journalist with English degrees writing hit pieces for their next paycheck. I read the actual lit.


			https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.121.318902
		

Spike protein is cytotoxic. Nuff said.

Now from the actual manufacturer.


			https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download
		

Id like to point out the section on 12-15 year olds, even though it’s all good. But that data is right around page 25. It’s some pretty damning stuff. Now care to explain to me how if the spike protein never leaves the injection site, how it was able to develop telepathic power, and effect systems far away from the injection site?


----------



## sakinago (Aug 16, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Complete equine excrement. I don't actually think that you are stupid enough to believe that.m The vast majority of those getting seriously sick or dying are UNVACCINATED


Nope. This bullshit stat is from December/January when 90% of the population was not vaccinated. That’s the side your on, the one that’s purposely misleadIng with clear bullshit stats like that. Not a good sign that your on the right side. Look up Israel, look up Iceland, look up the UK, Gibraltar(which is 100% vaxed) all those heavily vaxed countries that are dealing with the delta. If anything it’s close to an even split. Hell, you don’t have to go that far. Look at Massachusetts, the 2nd most vaccinated state in the union. I already posted this here, but here it is again.

Massachusetts Has Now Reported More Than 5,000 Breakthrough COVID Infections, 80 Deaths


			https://www.mass.gov/doc/covid-19-raw-data-july-23-2021/download
		


Whoopsie, that looks like 48% of all new infections in Mass we’re from the fully vaccinated.


----------



## Care4all (Aug 16, 2021)

sakinago said:


> It also 100% uses the spike protein of the virus that is cytotoxic. If it was a harmless part of the virus, like you claim, than there would be no need for the manufacturers to claim that “the vaccine does not leave the injection site”. If it was harmless, who cares that it leaves the injection site. The information I’m getting comes from the CDC and the manufacturers


This science article i read says the spike protein of the virus is only cytotoxic in blood cells/the blood stream....? That is why they use our shoulder with muscle, it does not go in to the blood stream or travel there from their studies, and there are two safety nets including an anchor, that also prevents it from such.









						The Thorny Problem Of COVID-19 Vaccines And Spike Proteins
					

Almost since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, a piece of the SARS-CoV2 virus called the “spike protein” has drawn interest from researchers and healthcare professionals.




					www.science20.com
				






_Vaccine skeptics have seized on the study to cast doubt on the safety of vaccines. But a review of the study’s findings shows that the concerns raised by vaccine doubters are much ado about nothing._

.......

_*Redesigning the Spike Protein*

The spike protein attaches SARS-CoV2 to cells through a receptor called ACE2. In order to fully interact, the spike protein must undergo a conformational change.

A research team lead by Dr. Barney Graham from the Vaccine Research Center at the NIH National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases created an engineered form of the spike protein that is unable to make the shape change required to effectively bind to cells. The Pfizer/BioNTech, Moderna, Novavax, and Johnson&Johnson vaccines all use this inactivated spike protein, which means any spike protein that is produced by the vaccine is not able to be activated. This safety-switch limits the ability of the spike protein to bind ACE2 and limits its ability to cause damage.

*Stuck in a Hole*

In addition to engineering the spike protein so it can not be fully activated, the protein is tagged with an extra piece called a “transmembrane anchor”. The transmembrane anchor allows the spike protein to appear on the surface – or membrane – of the cell, but it is held in place by the anchor. This prevents the spike protein from drifting away and creates a fixed target for the immune system to recognize the foreign protein.

*Three Strikes Against Misinformation*

The significance of the work by Lei and colleagues has been overshadowed by the concerns raised by vaccine skeptics. Their claims of a looming vaccine catastrophe brought about by vaccine-induced spike proteins fails to consider that the spike protein of vaccines is different than the natural form; that its engineered shape prevents activation; and that multiple elements confine spike protein expression to a highly localized collection of cells whose purpose is to activate the immunity vaccines are designed to produce.

Ironically, the same study cited by vaccine skeptics as proof of their arguments draws a very different conclusion than the negative ones they espouse. Lei and colleagues conclude their paper by noting that their study “suggests that vaccination-generated antibody and/or exogenous antibody against [spike] protein not only protects the host from SARS-CoV-2 infectivity but also inhibits [spike] protein imposed endothelial injury.” In other words, the spike proteins used by currently available vaccines actually offer a double layer of protection_.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 16, 2021)

sakinago said:


> https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.121.318902?cookieSet=1
> 
> 
> 
> If you didn’t know that the spike protein is what the mRNA vaccines are producing,



The vaccines are producing nothing. They use something. And what they use is in case of the vaccine from Biontech/Pfizer after 50 hours not existing any longer.



sakinago said:


> nor that it is cytotoxic,



Alcohol is cytotoxic = specially in case of the cell of nervs. The virus Sars-Co-V2 is accelerating cytotoxic.



sakinago said:


> you need to shut the fuck up ASAP.



No idea what you say here and absolutelly not any motivation to find this out because you seem not to be able to see what's good for a wood because of the many trees in a wood.



sakinago said:


> You are way out of your league.



My league is life and still I'm here. Vaccinated and happy to be vaccinated.



sakinago said:


> You keep applying what’s true for traditional vaccines for other diseases to these vaccines.



"Traditional" vaccines had many problems which are solved in modern vaccines. But use a "traditional" vacacien - a vectro vaccine - if you don't like to use a mRNA vaccine. As I said: Here in Germany the people "voted" very clear for mRNA vaccines.



sakinago said:


> Go back, look at my description on how these vaccines work.



They work - the side-effects of the vaccines aer so unimportant that even the extremely "conservative" and careful working STIKO (ständige Impfkommission) in Germany suggests to vaccinate everyone starting from the age of 12. The STIKO is totally independent and their loyality are only scientific facts. They say the positive effects of the vaccinations aginst covid-19 are much higher than the side effects.



sakinago said:


> Then actually research yourself on how they work and see if I am telling the truth or not.



You speak bullshit which kills people who trust in this bullshit. That's why I speak with you and try to be patient.



sakinago said:


> Then we might be able to have an actual discussion.
> 
> I call these vaccines a therapeutic, because that’s what they are.



Vaccines are vaccines. The sense of vaccines is foresight. Sooner or later everyone will be confrontated wuth this virus in the own body. Then the vaccinated will be much more lucky in average



sakinago said:


> They no longer prevent disease



Not in all cases - but the process is also in this cases more mild. And the chance to survive is higher.



sakinago said:


> or spread of the disease.



If 80-90% of all people are vaccinated who are older than 12 then the virus will die out.



sakinago said:


> At best they only lessen the severity of the disease.
> 
> I also have a thread in the CDZ about the vaccination numbers and breakthrough infections in Israel,



What for heavens salke is so special in Isreal?



sakinago said:


> as well as other heavily vaccinated countries. It’s from about a month ago, and the situation has only gotten worse for these countries, especially Israel.



I took a short view to the death rate in Israel and saw nothing what I was concerned about. They had a good summer in 2021. Same as in Germany - but we had problems with a weather catastrophe and now we have problems with the situation in Afghanistan. It needs no covid-19 catastrophe in winter. Also not in the USA. So let you vaccinate.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 16, 2021)

sakinago said:


> 1. What specific part of the of the virus causes the cytokines storms, inflammation, and the micro clotting???? Look it up. Research for yourself.
> 
> 2. Now look up how these mRNA vaccines work, and what they have your cells produce.
> 
> ...



Sometimes you sound as if you would be an US-American who believes in the own prejudices about the  "German angst" , because you don't know what angst is and what angst really is good for. Don't be worried. I am vaccinated. I had three days little problems comparable with a cold. That's it.


----------



## Leo123 (Aug 16, 2021)

Adrenochrome Junkie said:


> View attachment 519169
> wow
> 
> 
> ...





They took a weak virus and gave it God like status...Life and Death in fact!!  Of course they NEVER answer the burning question......Why all the hysteria for a virus with (for most) a 99% SURVIVAL RATE!!!   Is it bad if you get it?  YES of course but....is Cancer bad if you get it?  Tuberculosis?  MRSA infection?   Pneumonia?  Bronchitis?   We have not required the wearing of multiple masks, shut down a thriving economy, kept children out of schools, and basically scared the beJesus out of the populace for any of those.   We didn't do any of that (except create a vaccine) for Polio.

THEN.....They rushed a vaccine (that was probably never needed in the first place) and verbally assaulted  US with 'experts' telling US the vaccine would eradicate the dreaded virus.   NOW, lo and behold, there is a doubly 'scary' VARIANT that, we are told, is virulent as HELL.  

Anyone else smell a rat?


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 17, 2021)

Leo123 said:


> They took a weak virus and gave it God like status...Life and Death in fact!!



What a nonsense.



Leo123 said:


> Of course they NEVER answer the burning question......Why all the hysteria for a virus with (for most) a 99% SURVIVAL RATE!!!




Good grief. We made a little mistake in  Germany and lost becaue of this little mistake about 60,000 people (from about 92,000) - what had been avoidable. You made also mistakes and lost more than 600,000 people (perhaps 900,000 people including hidden cases)  - more people than you lost in world war 1+2 together.



Leo123 said:


> Is it bad if you get it?  YES of course but....is Cancer bad if you get it?  Tuberculosis?  MRSA infection?   Pneumonia?  Bronchitis?   We have not required the wearing of multiple masks, shut down a thriving economy, kept children out of schools, and basically scared the beJesus out of the populace for any of those.   We didn't do any of that (except create a vaccine) for Polio.
> 
> THEN.....They rushed a vaccine (that was probably never needed in the first place) and verbally assaulted  US with 'experts' telling US the vaccine would eradicate the dreaded virus.   NOW, lo and behold, there is a doubly 'scary' VARIANT that, we are told, is virulent as HELL.
> 
> Anyone else smell a rat?



Sure I smell a rat here. And I smell fear to inform yourselve about the deadly problems and the drastic results of long-covid problems.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Aug 17, 2021)

Care4all said:


> This science article i read says the spike protein of the virus is only cytotoxic in blood cells/the blood stream....? That is why they use our shoulder with muscle, it does not go in to the blood stream or travel there from their studies, and there are two safety nets including an anchor, that also prevents it from such.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The vaccine was SUPPOSED to remain in your arm muscle and it does not. The reason we know this is the Japanese asked for actual information from Pfizer on the animal trials; it was found in liver, kidneys, ovaries, testes, blood and plasma. Oh, and it crosses the blood/brain barrier too. Why do you think there are clotting issues and heart inflammation problems? Does that seem like something confined to an arm muscle?

There is a REASON that PhDs are among some of the highest unvaccinated population. If you are intelligent and do your research you want NOTHING to do with these so-called vaccines. 

But hey. 8 months, good luck with your boosters and those free-floating spike proteins.

Pg 17 all the organs where the crap was found:









						Pfizer_ovaries_study_in_English.pdf
					

Shared with Dropbox




					www.dropbox.com


----------



## sakinago (Aug 17, 2021)

Care4all said:


> This science article i read says the spike protein of the virus is only cytotoxic in blood cells/the blood stream....? That is why they use our shoulder with muscle, it does not go in to the blood stream or travel there from their studies, and there are two safety nets including an anchor, that also prevents it from such.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well for one shoulder muscles still have a blood stream. Just like the rest of the body those cells need to respire and need nutrients. Just because it isn’t directly IV, does not at all mean that the resulting spike proteins don’t make it into the blood stream. As for the “anchor”, the manufacturers did a shitty job (I’d say on purpose) of checking to make sure the spike protein doesn’t travel. They used the wrong test. How they’re supposed to test is by putting bioluminescent markers on the molecules of the vaccine. Then they dice up the organs in the test animals and put that tissue onto slides, and put those slides under a spectrometer to measure for photons. What they did instead was just looked at the organs as a whole, without the slicing and dicing, and said “well the spectrometer doesn’t see anything, so it doesn’t travel”.

I’m sure we’ve all heard of a friend who took the vaccine, then felt sick or sore all over for a couple of days. That is system wide. Unless the spike protein developed telepathic powers to effect systems outside of the shoulder, you’re going to have to explain to me why millions of people have felt the effects outside of their shoulder.

On top of that, we’ve already tested the theory and the spike protein is found basically everywhere, usually for a couple weeks after.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Aug 17, 2021)

sakinago said:


> Well for one shoulder muscles still have a blood stream. Just like the rest of the body those cells need to respire and need nutrients. Just because it isn’t directly IV, does not at all mean that the resulting spike proteins don’t make it into the blood stream. As for the “anchor”, the manufacturers did a shitty job (I’d say on purpose) of checking to make sure the spike protein doesn’t travel. They used the wrong test. How they’re supposed to test is by putting bioluminescent markers on the molecules of the vaccine. Then they dice up the organs in the test animals and put that tissue onto slides, and put those slides under a spectrometer to measure for photons. What they did instead was just looked at the organs as a whole, without the slicing and dicing, and said “well the spectrometer doesn’t see anything, so it doesn’t travel”.
> 
> I’m sure we’ve all heard of a friend who took the vaccine, then felt sick or sore all over for a couple of days. That is system wide. Unless the spike protein developed telepathic powers to effect systems outside of the shoulder, you’re going to have to explain to me why millions of people have felt the effects outside of their shoulder.
> 
> On top of that, we’ve already tested the theory and the spike protein is found basically everywhere, usually for a couple weeks after.



My state vaccinated teachers early on and many of my coworkers ran to get it, as I'm sure yours did too. I've never seen so many young people get so sick from a vaccine. I'm talking missing multiple days from work. 

Right then, even though I'm not a medical professional, I thought--something here is just not right. And the creepy Orwellian knee jerk answer, "It means your immune system is working!"....I have two auto-immune issues so I thought....or, it means your immune system is gone haywire. But what do I know.


----------



## sakinago (Aug 17, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> The vaccines are producing nothing. They use something. And what they use is in case of the vaccine from Biontech/Pfizer after 50 hours not existing any longer.


100% false. These are mRNA vaccines. Care to explain to me the role of mRNA? 


zaangalewa said:


> Sometimes you sound as if you would be an US-American who believes in the own prejudices about the  "German angst" , because you don't know what angst is and what angst really is good for. Don't be worried. I am vaccinated. I had three days little problems comparable with a cold. That's it.


Those little cold like problems are the spike protein escaping the injection site.


----------



## sakinago (Aug 17, 2021)

SweetSue92 said:


> My state vaccinated teachers early on and many of my coworkers ran to get it, as I'm sure yours did too. I've never seen so many young people get so sick from a vaccine. I'm talking missing multiple days from work.
> 
> Right then, even though I'm not a medical professional, I thought--something here is just not right. And the creepy Orwellian knee jerk answer, "It means your immune system is working!"....I have two auto-immune issues so I thought....or, it means your immune system is gone haywire. But what do I know.


Oh yeah, Ive seen a lot of it. Especially with young people. I had an RN and a PA, both who’ve never taken a sick day since they’ve been working there. Within 24 hours of the jab both were the sickest they’ve ever been in their life. We’re talking young and healthy women contemplating going into the ER, except they weren’t up to moving or walking anywhere. That’s the spike protein escaping the injection site. I don’t know why people are having such are hard time understanding that. Someone getting that sick is not just “your immune system working”. I don’t even think these vaccines contain adjuvants, nor do adjuvants do that to people if they actually did. You’re 100% right. It’s very Orwellian, it’s very animal farmish, it’s getting scary.


----------



## sakinago (Aug 17, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Sometimes you sound as if you would be an US-American who believes in the own prejudices about the  "German angst" , because you don't know what angst is and what angst really is good for. Don't be worried. I am vaccinated. I had three days little problems comparable with a cold. That's it.


I have no clue what you’re saying here. Whatever. Just answer me a couple of questions.

1. What is the function of mRNA.
2. What do the mRNA in these vaccines have you make?


----------



## Care4all (Aug 17, 2021)

sakinago said:


> Well for one shoulder muscles still have a blood stream. Just like the rest of the body those cells need to respire and need nutrients. Just because it isn’t directly IV, does not at all mean that the resulting spike proteins don’t make it into the blood stream. As for the “anchor”, the manufacturers did a shitty job (I’d say on purpose) of checking to make sure the spike protein doesn’t travel. They used the wrong test. How they’re supposed to test is by putting bioluminescent markers on the molecules of the vaccine. Then they dice up the organs in the test animals and put that tissue onto slides, and put those slides under a spectrometer to measure for photons. What they did instead was just looked at the organs as a whole, without the slicing and dicing, and said “well the spectrometer doesn’t see anything, so it doesn’t travel”.
> 
> I’m sure we’ve all heard of a friend who took the vaccine, then felt sick or sore all over for a couple of days. That is system wide. Unless the spike protein developed telepathic powers to effect systems outside of the shoulder, you’re going to have to explain to me why millions of people have felt the effects outside of their shoulder.
> 
> On top of that, we’ve already tested the theory and the spike protein is found basically everywhere, usually for a couple weeks after.


Hundreds of millions of people given the shot, the vaccine contents did not get in to their blood stream, which seems to confirm that the two anchors, one...changing the shape of the spike protein, and two...the anchor developed?

Remember...on the study showing cytotoxicity to the blood cells ...they used the actual spike protein shape of the corona virus2, the study showed the damage that was actually happening with the real virus in our blood steam causing the cytotoxicity, and the vaccine shape protein created was engineered to be different as a safety precaution is what the article explained as one of the safety nets... is what I gathered from the article?

Also, the article said the left over vaccine in the arm or something of the sort, drains to the lymph nodes creating protection in addition to the antibodies created, T-cells and B cells, I believe I read?

I'm not trying to tell you how or what to think...and have no stake in your life...  But I would hate to see you go down in life, meet your end, with dis and misinformation by skeptics, being the cause....

So please, spend some more time reading about the vaccines from scientists that are not the skeptics.... You already know the skeptics view, try to debunk them, by reading other scientific material contrary to theirs... to do such....


----------



## badger2 (Aug 17, 2021)

sakinago said:


> Oh yeah, Ive seen a lot of it. Especially with young people. I had an RN and a PA, both who’ve never taken a sick day since they’ve been working there. Within 24 hours of the jab both were the sickest they’ve ever been in their life. We’re talking young and healthy women contemplating going into the ER, except they weren’t up to moving or walking anywhere. That’s the spike protein escaping the injection site. I don’t know why people are having such are hard time understanding that. Someone getting that sick is not just “your immune system working”. I don’t even think these vaccines contain adjuvants, nor do adjuvants do that to people if they actually did. You’re 100% right. It’s very Orwellian, it’s very animal farmish, it’s getting scary.


Should one consider the anti-freeze in these mRNA vaccines and a possible immune response?


----------



## badger2 (Aug 17, 2021)

Pfizer inactive ingredients: Alc-0159 2-[(polyethylene glycol)-2000]-N,N-ditetradecylacetamide.








						Anaphylaxis to the first COVID-19 vaccine: is polyethylene glycol (PEG) the culprit? - PubMed
					

Anaphylaxis to the first COVID-19 vaccine: is polyethylene glycol (PEG) the culprit?




					pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


----------



## Leo123 (Aug 17, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> What a nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Shove it troll


----------



## sakinago (Aug 17, 2021)

Care4all said:


> Hundreds of millions of people given the shot, the vaccine contents did not get in to their blood stream, which seems to confirm that the two anchors, one...changing the shape of the spike protein, and two...the anchor developed?
> 
> Remember...on the study showing cytotoxicity to the blood cells ...they used the actual spike protein shape of the corona virus2, the study showed the damage that was actually happening with the real virus in our blood steam causing the cytotoxicity, and the vaccine shape protein created was engineered to be different as a safety precaution is what the article explained as one of the safety nets... is what I gathered from the article?
> 
> ...


I’m an MSRN. I have read the med lit about these vaccines extensively. I have been reading med lit for most of my career. I have received and administered many vaccines.

Two things cannot be true at once. One is systemic, or local injuries occurring outside of the injection site. The other is the spike protein is not leaving the injection. We know for a fact systemic injuries are happening as a result of these vaccines. Even the manufacturer admits this.


			https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download
		

Check out the pages out and around 25.

The information you’re getting is not from researchers. It’s from journalist with English degrees whose bosses are sponsored by big pharma, and are getting their info from the PR departments of big pharma. You can’t have these injuries and the injuries in VAERS (as well as the actual studies showing the spike protein is indeed all over vaccine recipients), and still claim that the spike protein doesn’t leave the injection site. It’s just not true. Not by a mile.

I will say, I appreciate you leaving it up to a personal decision, which is exactly what it is. No calls for mandates, no declarations of blood being on my hands. Nice change of pace. I did not get the vaccine because I had already had COVID. I did not need. What originally threw up red flags about these vaccines(originally I believed it to be relatively safe compared to other vaccines) for me was the demand that the already recovered have to take it. That should be a red flag for everyone. It is a zero benefit, but take on all the risk proposition that the medical community should never ever ever ever make. Especially considering the experimental nature of the vaccines as well as the mRNA technology. Then I watched coworkers getting sick from it around me. That’s when my eyebrows really started to raise.


----------



## sakinago (Aug 17, 2021)

badger2 said:


> Should one consider the anti-freeze in these mRNA vaccines and a possible immune response?


As an adjuvant? Or as cause of the adverse events? We’re seeing symptoms that look a lot like COVID (because they basically are) so a fairly well educated guess would assume, yeah it’s probably the damn cytotoxic spike protein.


----------



## Concerned American (Aug 17, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> People vaccinated for polio can still cary and spread the disease. Are you against polio vaccinations too?


Flu is not polio nor is it smallpox.


----------



## Concerned American (Aug 17, 2021)

RadicalRedneck said:


> *NOT TRUE*!


Everyone is dying--it is a side effect of being born.


----------



## BULLDOG (Aug 17, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Flu is not polio nor is it smallpox.


And a bullfrog is not a writing desk. What is your point?


----------



## Concerned American (Aug 17, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> And a bullfrog is not a writing desk. What is your point?


but bulldog is a bull dyke without a lick of common sense.  Obtuse fuck.


----------



## BULLDOG (Aug 17, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> but bulldog is a bull dyke without a lick of common sense.  Obtuse fuck.


And we both know how much I value your opinion.


----------



## Concerned American (Aug 17, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> And we both know how much I value your opinion.


And yet you continue to respond.  ROFLMAO.


----------



## badger2 (Aug 17, 2021)

sakinago said:


> I’m an MSRN. I have read the med lit about these vaccines extensively. I have been reading med lit for most of my career. I have received and administered many vaccines.
> 
> Two things cannot be true at once. One is systemic, or local injuries occurring outside of the injection site. The other is the spike protein is not leaving the injection. We know for a fact systemic injuries are happening as a result of these vaccines. Even the manufacturer admits this.
> 
> ...


One cannot dictate the risks when the origins of SARS-CoV-2 are unknown. By badger’s estimation, the oldest ancestor of SARS-CoV’s is a porcine virus, PRRSV, not a bat virus. When one tracks this porcine virus to Wuhan Institute of Virology, one can’t easily laugh it off.


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 17, 2021)

Leo123 said:


> Shove it troll


Interesting answer when someone scales you with you with your own not existing values.  What about to call no one "rat" except rats?


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 17, 2021)

sakinago said:


> I have no clue what you’re saying here. Whatever. Just answer me a couple of questions.
> 
> 1. What is the function of mRNA.
> 2. What do the mRNA in these vaccines have you make?



The reason for this system is to avoid a transfer from DNA - of the virus in this case  - into the human DNA. On the other side is the human DNA anyway full of parts of DNA of the natural fights with other virusses during the evolution of all mankind. But the mRNA-vaccines work more "clean" - and calculable - what's never wrong.

Nevertheless never everything is fully calculable in biology. A very seldom side effect is for example able to be a dangerous heart muscle inflammation - not only in case of mRNA vaccines as har as I know. In such cases it's good to go to a doctor. But this happens perhaps also in case of a "natural vaccination" = infection with SARS-Co-V2.


----------



## Leo123 (Aug 18, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Interesting answer when someone scales you with you with your own not existing values.  What about to call no one "rat" except rats?


You did nothing of the sort.  All you did is troll with lies.


----------



## Colin norris (Aug 18, 2021)

CowboyTed said:


> Meanwhile back at the Rest of the World
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'll never understand how grown human beings still wish to peddle obvious ignorant lies when lives are at stake. 
Then they say democrats  hate America. 

None of it adds up.  what purpose are they persuing? To allow their republican  comrades die through shear ignorance? 
I know some hard headed repigs won't get jabbed because Joe says to. Why would anyone put politics before their life. Are they really that insane?


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 18, 2021)

Leo123 said:


> You did nothing of the sort.  All you did is troll with lies.


Give me please exactly the text from me which you call "lie" - and tell me what's true instead of this text.


----------



## sakinago (Aug 18, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Nevertheless never everything is fully calculable in biology. A very seldom side effect is for example able to be a dangerous heart muscle inflammation - not only in case of mRNA vaccines as har as I know. In such cases it's good to go to a doctor. But this happens perhaps also in case of a "natural vaccination" = infection with SARS-Co-V2.


Yes, the myocarditis and pericarditis (or heart inflammation) are because of the spike protein. You know, the very same that causes crazy inflammation in the lungs with the virus. The very same spike protein that is in the blueprints of the mRNA that’s in the vaccine. And yes only in the case of mRNA vaccines. It should be noted, myocarditis and pericarditis are no joke, this can wrought permanent or long term damage. Very bad. So, if that’s the case, why are we giving these vaccines to children who are neither victims, nor vectors of COVID? 6 year olds and myocarditis don’t really mix. And/or why are we giving these vaccines to those who’ve already recovered from COVID who do not need it? Should we not test to make sure they didn’t already have a prior infection?






						COVID Vaccine Landing
					

VAERS




					www.openvaers.com


----------



## zaangalewa (Aug 18, 2021)

sakinago said:


> Yes, the myocarditis and pericarditis (or heart inflammation) are because of the spike protein.



I spoke only about myocarditis - which is an extremely seldom - but dangerous - side effect. A myocarditis needs a doctor to be healed. And if you like to compare an mRNA-vaccine with a most "traditional" vaccine then you have to make a clinical study with the vaccine "SARS-Co-V2" itself and before you are able to get a scientifically correct list of the side effects of such covid-19 infections you will go to prison because of mass-murder.



sakinago said:


> You know, the very same that causes crazy inflammation in the lungs with the virus. The very same spike protein that is in the blueprints of the mRNA that’s in the vaccine. And yes only in the case of mRNA vaccines. It should be noted, myocarditis and pericarditis are no joke, this can wrought permanent or long term damage. Very bad. So, if that’s the case, why are we giving these vaccines to children who are neither victims, nor vectors of COVID?



We don't give it to children. Some days ago the STIKO in Germany made clear that the positive effects against covid-19 (including long-covid problems) are much higher than the seldom negative side effects - also for teens starting from 12 years.  For children from 1-11 years we don't see here in the moment not any need for a vaccination.



sakinago said:


> 6 year olds and myocarditis don’t really mix. And/or why are we giving these vaccines to those who’ve already recovered from COVID who do not need it?



Because a vaccination is much more safe because of boost effects. We started also to offer a third vaccination for people who are 80 and older if their last vaccination was more than 6 month ago. Reason: The immune system of older people needs more training.



sakinago said:


> Should we not test to make sure they didn’t already have a prior infection? ...



No. A refresh is without any negative consequences as far as I heard. And a short time after an infection or vaccination you don't have any antibodies in the blood any longer. The question is how fast an immune syteme is able to attack and to eliminate the SARS-Co-V2 virus. The longer this needs the more virusses will reproduce themself and the greater is the danger to get serios problems.


----------



## Care4all (Aug 18, 2021)

sakinago said:


> (as well as the actual studies showing the spike protein is indeed all over vaccine recipients),


Could you link me to those specific studies?

Also, isn't one of the safety nets, is the spike protein is a different shape than the COV2SARS?


sakinago said:


> What originally threw up red flags about these vaccines(originally I believed it to be relatively safe compared to other vaccines) for me was the demand that the already recovered have to take it. That should be a red flag for everyone


My gut instinct was to question why those who have had it, needed a shot as well...!!??!!

But the explanation that I had initially read, made some sense....not everyone who has had the virus has developed the same level of antibodies, and concerns of future variants breaking through your protection from antibodies etc that you developed.

A vaccine would increase your antibodies etc, already created.

Regardless, when they were saying y'all previously infected by the virus still needed a shot, and the vaccine shots were limited, I still thought you all should be put at the end of the line and it was not as important for you all to receive one as those who never had the virus.

Now, studies are showing that not only the vaccinated can catch the Delta variant, although mostly not in a serious way....

Those who have previously had COVID, are now showing breakthrough cases with the Delta variant and are passing the virus along, as the vaccinated are doing...

So maybe they were right....?  You may need additional protection from future, more contagious variants to keep yourself from being a spreader???

__________

Having said all that... I had biology, chemistry, and physics (for one semester) in high school ...decades ago, and although i had some interest in it when young, I haven't taken a science course since, that I remember....went in to the business field instead, so by no means am i any kind of expert...  I just have a desire to learn and educate myself as much as I can now...on this COV2 and the vaccines...

------------

I read something yesterday that I need to research further.... Maybe you know?

That the T and B cells created by the draining of the vaccine in to the lymph nodes are the critters that are suppose to give us immunity from catching the virus are not doing such....that's why we are still able to catch the disease....

Is this correct?  Am I understanding that correctly?  Basically, the antibodies created through vaccination is working and preventing grave infections, but the vaccine is not working in preventing infections which involves the T &B Cells?  And could this be, because all of the remaining spike proteins are not making it to the lymph nodes to trigger the T and B cells?  Or because the spike protein is a different shape?


----------



## badger2 (Aug 18, 2021)

The spike is meant to be cytotoxic, not pampering.


----------



## badger2 (Aug 18, 2021)

SARS-CoV-2’s earliest ancestor was likely not a bat virus but a pig virus. This one:
Ap 1992  U. of Minnesota Dept. of Veterinary Diagnostic Medicine








						Isolation of swine infertility and respiratory syndrome virus (isolate ATCC VR-2332) in North America and experimental reproduction of the disease in gnotobiotic pigs - PubMed
					

A recent epizootic of swine infertility and respiratory syndrome (SIRS) in a Minnesota swine herd was investigated. Examination of a sow, neonatal piglets, and stillborn fetuses obtained during the epizootic from the affected herd revealed interstitial pneumonitis, lymphomononuclear...




					pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				



’A syndrome of reproductive failure and respiratory disease of unknown etiology was first recognized in 1987-1988 in swine herds in North Carolina, Iowa, and Minnesota. A similar syndrome has been recognized in Germany, The Netherlands, England, Belgium, and Spain.’

We think that this is the true origin of SARS-CoVs. Please don’t hesitate to ask colleagues what they think. The link to pigs is here:

Dec 2020  India








						Zoonotic evolution and implications of microbiome in viral transmission and infection - PubMed
					

The outbreak and spread of new strains of coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) remain a global threat with increasing cases in affected countries. The evolutionary tree of SARS-CoV-2 revealed that Porcine Reproductive and Respiratory Syndrome virus 2, which belongs to the Beta arterivirus genus from the...




					pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


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## sakinago (Aug 18, 2021)

Care4all said:


> Also, isn't one of the safety nets, is the spike protein is a different shape than the COV2SARS?


The best way to describe what they changed is there is a receptor point that they basically left open. The thought was that, and it practice it probably does to a degree, make the spike protein more “sticky” so that it doesn’t leave the injection site. However, it was far from a theoretical certainty that it would only remain in the injection site, and like I stated before they did a half ass job at testing for that (on purpose unless you want to believe that they all of a sudden got dumb, and forgot how to science when it came time to test).


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## sakinago (Aug 18, 2021)

Care4all said:


> But the explanation that I had initially read, made some sense....not everyone who has had the virus has developed the same level of antibodies, and concerns of future variants breaking through your protection from antibodies etc that you developed.


More lies. No that claim also threw up a lot of red flags. Sure people will have different levels of antibodies, depending on many many factors, like how severe an infection received. What matters is memory T-cell immunity, not antibody levels, unless of course you are pretty severely immunocompromised. So far, natural immunity works for all variants. It provides a much more broad spectrum of immunity against the entire virus (different types of antibodies to attack different parts of the virus, including the spike protein in the vaccine) vs immunity to just the single spike protein of the virus. In which, all the virus has to do to beat the vaccine is mutate the spike protein. So, if natural immunity does not work against the virus, than most certainly neither will the vaccine.


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## danielpalos (Aug 19, 2021)

badger2 said:


> Should one consider the anti-freeze in these mRNA vaccines and a possible immune response?


"Propylene glycol (PG) and Macrogols (such as polyethylene glycols or PEGs) are synthetic substances that are used as vehicles in various cosmetic and medicinal products. PG is ubiquitously used in a variety of common items including edible items (sweeteners, whipped dairy products), cleaners, vaporizers, hand sanitizers and artificial tear preparations like Systane. It is a common cause of allergic contact dermatitis (ACD) and was named the ACD Society’s allergen of the year in 2018. In addition to causing contact dermatitis with cosmetic exposure, systemic contact dermatitis has been reported after oral ingestion. As PG is both a weak sensitizer and a cause of irritant dermatitis, patch testing interpretation can be difficult to interpret as testing results may not be robust if low concentrations are used and may lead to irritant response with higher concentrations. 1,2 There are no reports upon literature review of IgE-mediated or anaphylactic reactions to PG.




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						Cross-reactivity between propylene glycol & macrogol?
					

AAAAI's Ask the Expert talks about cross-reactivity between propylene glycol and macrogol.




					www.aaaai.org


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