# Should middle school students be allowed to wear leggings at school?



## Slade3200 (Dec 16, 2017)

It is currently a dress code violation for students to wear uncovered leggings at public schools and many parents have been complaining about it. What are your thoughts about dress code rules in public schools?


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 16, 2017)

Parents' call not the schools' in my opinion


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## Slade3200 (Dec 16, 2017)

JakeStarkey said:


> Parents' call not the schools' in my opinion


What about jeans with holes? Or gang symbols like bandanas? Do you think there should be no dress code or just not for leggings?


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## Billy_Kinetta (Dec 16, 2017)

I would mandate all students in the public school system wear grey sweatsuits and black Chuck Taylors, with an American flag shoulder patch.

That's it.


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## MindWars (Dec 16, 2017)

Just one of many reason leggings should never be allowed in schools,  including for those who aren't fat either. 
They show to much ,and one might as well just get spray painted and wear nothing.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 16, 2017)

Slade3200 said:


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School admin and parental council needs to come some agreement.


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## MarathonMike (Dec 16, 2017)

The first time I saw them was at a club volleyball tournament. I could not believe these girls parents let them out of the house to parade around 100 horny teenage guys with those pants! Spray painted on is right.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Dec 16, 2017)

Slade3200 said:


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What is this, 1985?


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## Asclepias (Dec 16, 2017)

Slade3200 said:


> It is currently a dress code violation for students to wear uncovered leggings at public schools and many parents have been complaining about it. What are your thoughts about dress code rules in public schools?


Kids should wear uniforms to school.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 16, 2017)

I agree, Ascelpias, if all students AND teachers must abide by a strict uniform code.


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## Asclepias (Dec 16, 2017)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> I would mandate all students in the public school system wear grey sweatsuits and black Chuck Taylors, with an American flag shoulder patch.
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> That's it.


No american flag comrade.


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## MarathonMike (Dec 16, 2017)

I was going to post exactly that. Uniforms would solve the problem of inappropriate clothing, gang color issues, and save the parents money.


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## Disir (Dec 16, 2017)

Slade3200 said:


> It is currently a dress code violation for students to wear uncovered leggings at public schools and many parents have been complaining about it. What are your thoughts about dress code rules in public schools?



Dress codes increase violations and lead to suspensions.  It's the dumbest crap I have ever seen.


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## Disir (Dec 16, 2017)

MarathonMike said:


> I was going to post exactly that. Uniforms would solve the problem of inappropriate clothing, gang color issues, and save the parents money.



No, they don't.  It simply makes it easier for the adults to ignore. Those kids already know who is a gang member, they know who is rich and who is not.  It's an out of sight/out of mind game that helps no one solve anything.


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## Bruce_T_Laney (Dec 16, 2017)

I agree with everyone that wrote School Uniforms.


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## The Irish Ram (Dec 16, 2017)

MindWars said:


> Just one of many reason leggings should never be allowed in schools,  including for those who aren't fat either.
> They show to much ,and one might as well just get spray painted and wear nothing.



You just broke the law in Paris.  No fat shaming.


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## Asclepias (Dec 16, 2017)

Disir said:


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School is for learning. Its not a fashion show. Kids should learn to follow the rules for the environment they are in.  If this increases violations and suspensions then that means someones parents are not doing their job.  I bet if they started arresting the parents for their childrens dress  code violations like they do for kids cutting school then it would stop immediately.


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## Asclepias (Dec 16, 2017)

Disir said:


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I think it keeps the focus on education and not how much someones pants cost. Of course kids are going to find a way to wear status symbols but a uniform makes it much harder to do this.


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## Disir (Dec 16, 2017)

Asclepias said:


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That's a whole lot of should, Asclepisas.  The world should do a lot of things.  They don't though. The reality is that some of these kids are stuffing shoes with plastic bags to make the shoes fit. They aren't going to be able to have enough money to clean those clothes in the middle of the week and the name of the game is to keep kids in school.  The only group of people this serves is the adults that can pretend nothing is going on. There are bigger arguments to have.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Dec 16, 2017)

JakeStarkey said:


> I agree, Ascelpias, if all students AND teachers must abide by a strict uniform code.



You seem to confuse children with adults.


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## Asclepias (Dec 16, 2017)

Disir said:


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I went to catholic school for 4 years. My parents bought me 5 pair of pants, 5 shirts and 3 sweaters. I was responsible for washing my clothes and frankly I made sure I washed them because there was no way I was going to go to school with dirty clothes on. This washing was done on Sunday morning without fail. If for some reason the uniform had to be washed during the week my mother did it which made me feel like crap since she worked so hard already.  The uniforms are less expensive than just wearing regular clothing which is a benefit to low income households like ours was.  What benefits do you see in letting kids wear what they want?


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## Asclepias (Dec 16, 2017)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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I agree with Jake. The teachers should be held to a dress code as well to set an example.


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## skye (Dec 16, 2017)

Asclepias said:


> Slade3200 said:
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I agree. ^^


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## Billy_Kinetta (Dec 16, 2017)

Asclepias said:


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Okay, now it's two American flags, one on each shoulder.


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## Asclepias (Dec 16, 2017)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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No gang symbols


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## Billy_Kinetta (Dec 16, 2017)

Asclepias said:


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Agreed.  I read Jake as expecting teachers to also wear sweatsuits.


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## ScienceRocks (Dec 16, 2017)

I don't give a fuck. Let them wear panties as far as I am concern.


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## usmbguest5318 (Dec 16, 2017)

"Maybe" is my answer, but that option doesn't exist among the poll options.  I don't see the matter as binary, which is how the poll answer options tacitly present it.

I am of the mind that there are very few always-appropriate/always-inappropriate garments for individuals to wear.  What "works" and when and what does not "work" and when depends as much on the wearer as it does on the circumstance of the wearing.

If the child is going to wear them as shown below, then no....











​If the child wears them as shown below, I see no problem with their doing so....

These ways of wearing leggings is fine for going to class.










(I don't approve of the coquettish bimbo pose, but the leggings are okay.)

















The photos below are of high school students at the high school my son attended.












These looks are a bit more fashionable than I suspect most girls would don for school, but if my daughter were to wear it to class, I wouldn't object on the grounds of the leggings being inappropriate.










(Is the coquettish bimbo pose "a thing" among young women these days?")

















If the school has an equestrian program, wearing something like this is fine for practice and whatnot.  The look below is fairly typical of what my daughter wears/wore for recreational riding activities.





​
Similarly, if the child's body shape is what I call "two tons of fun," then, mostly no, she should not wear leggings in lieu of pants or a dress/skirt.  However, if she or her style guides have good style sense, there're ways she can wear leggings that don't look gross.




​At the end of the day, it just depends....I think parents and a school's administrators need to consider each case individually.  Of course, school administrations prefer "cookie cutter" approaches to things like dress codes, but they are sometimes reticent or disallowed to implement a mandated uniform.



Aside:
I don't know why, but it strikes me as odd that, for the most part, dress code issues seem to swirl around girls rather than boys.  I have three boys and a girl, and all of them figured out how to "put their sexy on" well before I'd have liked them to.  As goes young male "sexy dress," what I observed differing was that "boy sexy" seemed to focus on how loose garments drape over their muscles rather than being skintight.  From what I can tell, my kids' friends know as much about "putting their sexy on" as do adults.

At the end of the day, I had to accept that neither I nor the school's staff could police their every outfit choice.  Accordingly, I had to trust in their exercising the good judgment they were taught to have.  Giving kids free reign to exercise good judgment with their sartorial decisions and the consequences thereof strikes me as a fitting part of the "leash" parents can safely give kids.  After all, learning to resist sartorial temptation -- be it the wearing or the inspiration attire may catalyze for "reaching out and touching" -- is among the things young people need to learn to resist and, when appropriate, not resist.  It's never too soon to learn a lesson, and, frankly, the sooner one learns a lesson, the better.​


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## fncceo (Dec 16, 2017)

We need to go back to old fashioned school dress codes that import values and decorum...


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## JustAnotherNut (Dec 16, 2017)

I agree with uniforms, especially with middle schoolers.


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## Slade3200 (Dec 16, 2017)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


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Ha. I wish. These are real things that our local school has dress code restriction for. There has been a lot pushback from parents about the leggings. School wants to teach kids discipline and set basic standards of dress etiquette... parents want to be able to decide what their kids can and can’t wear to school


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 16, 2017)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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No, that's you.  Teachers should set the example.


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## usmbguest5318 (Dec 16, 2017)

JustAnotherNut said:


> I agree with uniforms, especially with middle schoolers.


I won't ever object to the notion of uniforms, yet I think there are school settings where their implementation provides more value than in others.  From my observations of my kids' school experiences and from occasional visits to some D.C. area schools, it seems to me that the issue of what kids wear to school comes up in coeducational schools and doesn't much do so at unisex institutions.  It seems by my casual observation that even though the students can wear pretty much whatever they want, save for the color of the pants and shits, they pretty much dress alike.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Dec 16, 2017)

Asclepias said:


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  I believe the teachers should have a little leeway in how they dress but it would have to be within certain guidelines. They are after all the authority figure in the classroom.


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## JustAnotherNut (Dec 16, 2017)

Xelor said:


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Yes that could well be true. The bigger problem in a co-ed school is the reasons behind the clothing choices. In a boys or girls only school, the pressure of looking good for others isn't there as much as in co-ed schools. Where you want to look good for the opposite sex, but also as good as the next person. When that competitive edge is taken out of the equation, there are less issues because of it. 

Although the 'uncovered' leggings for girls could become an issue with male teachers


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## usmbguest5318 (Dec 16, 2017)

JustAnotherNut said:


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JustAnotherNut said:


> Although the 'uncovered' leggings for girls could become an issue with male teachers



I suppose anything is possible; certainly being at once a letch and a teacher is not at all mutually exclusionary.  For my part, however, the male teachers and the possibility that they might be lecherous aren't things I'd cite as reasons for any student to refrain from "putting on their sexy" to go to class.


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## Disir (Dec 16, 2017)

Asclepias said:


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If you attended a Catholic school then that is a different ball game.

First, the uniforms in public schools are part of a larger program of zero tolerance--which is a bunch of crap. 

 Not everyone owns a washer and dryer. There are parents who wash the clothes on payday but don't have enough money to wash clothes until the next payday.  The kid either is so humiliated he doesn't attend school or gets bounced because he is not in compliance with the code and is still too humiliated to explain why unless you dig for information.  AND you are able to dig without embarrassing the kid.   Some parents, and I use that term loosely, don't make it a priority and they just suck meanwhile the kid still gets code violations and gets bounced. 

Pick and choose your battles. There are kids that have dealt with serious trauma and they can't see a future. Getting them to walk through the door let alone participate in class is a battle. 

So, what do kids get out of wearing what they want? The pretense they are expressing their individuality. They have clothes they are comfortable in. The clothing can be used as a bargaining chip.  I dealt with a kid that had a red faux hawk and facial piercings. His mom told him he could wear what he wanted and could have facial piercings (but could not have his ears gauged or have tattoos) providing he didn't get high and remained on the honor roll.


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## usmbguest5318 (Dec 16, 2017)

JustAnotherNut said:


> The bigger problem in a co-ed school is the reasons behind the clothing choices.


I had to chuckle upon reading that sentence.  I did because the thought that came to mind when I read it is that if there is a problem with anyone's -- minors and adults -- sartorial choices, it derives from the reason they made the choices they did.  There are far too many reasons and choices to enumerate, but one example that fairly well summarizes the gamut of the reasons is found in the photo-meme below.




Quite simply, a major problem is that folks think they look good wearing "A" when the reality is that their body just isn't a "A-appropriate" body.  And let's be honest, why would anyone willfully leave their house not on a stretcher and looking bad, that is to say, looking either like they don't own a mirror or like someone other than they is whom they see upon looking in the mirror?


Aside:
If you like clothes, it behooves you to stay fit because when you are, you won't look bad wearing anything that fits, but when you're obese, that you can fit in the garment doesn't mean it fits you.
 -- My wife​My wife delivered that statement in a conversation explaining to our daughter why she, like her brothers, was required to do aerobics and weight training.

As a pre-teen, our daughter wasn't keen on having to hit gym.  As a high school senior and now woman, there's no denying she revels in the fact that she heeded the advice her mother gave her.  She absolutely loves the fact that she's grown into being "Hollywood hot" woman, as we teasingly refer to her looks and shape.  It took a few years of "bitching and moaning" for her to get on board with working out; however, now, she works-out seven days a week.  LOL

FWIW, my wife and I had one overarching goal, to raise our kids so that upon becoming adults, the world would, as much as possible, truly be their oyster.  While part of that has to do with career and related matters, an equally material part of it rests in the social sphere, which is why we taught/required our kids to get fit and stay that way.  Now that they're all grown, whether they maintain that, to what extent, and/or for how many years into the future they do/don't is their choice.  As far as I'm concerned, I am content that they "entered the world," so to speak, having no material deficits.  I think as a parent that is about all one can reliably do for one's kids.​


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## JustAnotherNut (Dec 16, 2017)

Xelor said:


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True dat, I suppose. But my thought when I posted that is from the teens perspective and especially middle schoolers who are just becoming sexually aware and aware of their own bodies. They don't usually make smart choices in their mannerisms or dress choices. And it is usually the kids that choose the clothes they wear and parents just foot the bill. 

Sure they want to look nice, but kids tend to dress to compete for attention, as to the reasons behind their choices. 

Wearing uniforms to school is really no different than those that wear uniforms to work. At school, it does take out the competitive edge. Kids are still free to wear whatever they choose on their own time. 

I will say the longer blouses that cover the inappropriate details are much more tasteful and can even look good on larger bodies. And that goes for adults as well. Yes I have & wear the leggings on occasion. They are comfortable & warm and I wear the longer blouse or sweater that covers what is nobodies business but mine & hubby's


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## Coyote (Dec 16, 2017)

I'm all for dress codes in schools.  That way you remove brand name competition, sexual distractions, gang symbolism, and other provocations that have no place in the schools.  Schools are for educating not "freedome of expression".  Besides it would be so much easier on the parents.  You could have one day a week be a wear whatever you want day.

I think it's time to tighten up dress codes in schools.


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## Disir (Dec 16, 2017)

Dress code crackdown suspends 150 students, brings criticism

About 10 years ago, maybe longer, the NAACP kicked out a report called the School to Prison pipeline. Dress code violations is one of the absolute nonsense violations kids encounter. that leads to them being suspended.


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## Asclepias (Dec 16, 2017)

Disir said:


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How is it different because I attended a catholic school? I mainly attended public schools. I distinctly remember the need to be up on my fashion in public schools. It was a large part of the social order.  Thats why I know its better to have uniforms.

I dont understand what being a larger part of zero tolerance has to do with what I am saying?  Regardless of what it is part of the benefits of requiring a uniform outweigh any other negatives you feel are part of it.

We didnt own a washer and dryer. We couldnt afford it. The tuition for catholic school didnt allow it.  We had to go to laundrymat or wash at home in the tub and air dry.  I was never too humiliated to attend school. It was an escape from racist cops and gang bangers. Besides the drug dealers in my neighborhood stayed on my ass to stay in school.

Kids like you mentioned, the at risk children, were at a different school. I can tell you from experience a structured disciplined environment is critical for them if they are ever going to have a chance at succeeding in society. Without those structured environments the prison system is the next one they will encounter. If you look at the success of the NOI with their schools you can see how requiring a uniform is so impactful.


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## Asclepias (Dec 16, 2017)

Disir said:


> Dress code crackdown suspends 150 students, brings criticism
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> About 10 years ago, maybe longer, the NAACP kicked out a report called the School to Prison pipeline. Dress code violations is one of the absolute nonsense violations kids encounter. that leads to them being suspended.


Thats an administrative problem not a dress code problem.


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## Disir (Dec 16, 2017)

Asclepias said:


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With a Catholic school, a uniform is expected.  I encountered the non washer/dryer multiple times in Chicago and the surrounding areas.  Schools can't be run like little kiddy prisons.  They are already structured.


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## Disir (Dec 16, 2017)

Asclepias said:


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It's a BS problem that is encountered over and over again.  It's part and parcel of the Zero Tolerance crap.


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## Asclepias (Dec 16, 2017)

Disir said:


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A uniform should be expected in public school as well. Requiring a uniform is not the same as a kiddy prison. It teaches discipline, teaches unity, and takes the focus off having a fashion show.


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## Asclepias (Dec 16, 2017)

Disir said:


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It doesnt have to be part of zero tolerance. I agree thats idiotic.  Youre basically blaming a method for being bad instead of the idiots implementing the method in a stupid manner.


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## Disir (Dec 16, 2017)

Asclepias said:


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It changes nothing.  The kids mirror their parents who are seeking status in any way, shape or form.


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## Disir (Dec 16, 2017)

Asclepias said:


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Oh, you have no idea how much I blame the idiots implementing this.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 16, 2017)

Disir said:


> Dress code crackdown suspends 150 students, brings criticism
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> About 10 years ago, maybe longer, the NAACP kicked out a report called the School to Prison pipeline. Dress code violations is one of the absolute nonsense violations kids encounter. that leads to them being suspended.



That is because they refuse to correct their behavior that led to the dress code violation, duh!


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## Windparadox (Dec 16, 2017)

`
Leggings for public middle school? I think not. I rather favor an adherence to a flexible dress code. Most males look like shit in them anyways.


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## Disir (Dec 16, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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## Asclepias (Dec 16, 2017)

Disir said:


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Seeking status is a part of life that all people do and kids typically mirror their parents. School should be an environment where at least your clothing doesnt give away your status. One less thing to distract from learning.


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## Disir (Dec 16, 2017)

Asclepias said:


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As if nobody knows? Now it's back to appeasing the adults.


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## Asclepias (Dec 16, 2017)

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I disagree. Its about providing one less thing for kids to stress over.  I've seen the kids with parents that couldnt afford the latest high priced clothes.


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## Disir (Dec 16, 2017)

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That's ok.  As for me, it's purely to appease the adults.  It does jack all for the kids and in many ways is detrimental. 

It's like watching middle schoolers wearing gang colors.  You want to see that.  You want to see what you have on your hands. You want to know who these kids are. The other kids do.


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## Asclepias (Dec 16, 2017)

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I dont want to see middle schoolers wearing gang colors. I already know who these kids are. I dont need to see their clothes. I grew up in the same environment so its easy for me to see.


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## Coyote (Dec 16, 2017)

A dress code doesn't have to mean a uniform.


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## usmbguest5318 (Dec 17, 2017)

JustAnotherNut said:


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Of course.  It was merely that sentence that on its own, _i.e., _absent the context of your overall message, inspired the chuckle.  The overall theme of your remarks wasn't lost on me, nor do I take exception with it, for as I earlier wrote, "I won't ever object to the notion of uniforms."  

Indeed, notwithstanding uniforms' disabusing kids of a variety of societal contrivances of which they might otherwise concern themselves, they also reduce the total cost parents must pay to clothe their kids and eliminate a measure of the angst accompanying "back to school" and other shopping forays.  "Yes, I will pay for a new iPhone," for instance, is a lot easier to say when one doesn't also have to buy this or that trendy garment because "all the kids at school are wearing them."  

Even in my household where the money wasn't an issue, on principle, my wife and I simply didn't honor our kids every last whim and desire.  It was no different for me and my siblings.  (I'm not of a mind to ridicule parents who indulge their children's every last wish, but neither was I willing to be such a parent.)  Restraint is a quality children must learn, as well as learn that it applies to myriad scenarios.  School uniforms are among the "tools" available to assist parents in conveying the value of that trait.


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## usmbguest5318 (Dec 17, 2017)

fncceo said:


> We need to go back to old fashioned school dress codes that import values and decorum...


At what school was that the uniform?  Some place in Europe, perhaps?  Barring that, dare I guess a 1940s-/1950s-ish school for budding pinup girls?  LOL


1940s era Miss Porter's School









​
1960s Kent School




​
Kent School today

​


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## fncceo (Dec 17, 2017)

From the 1954 film. ‘The Belles of St Trinians’


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## Disir (Dec 17, 2017)

Asclepias said:


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Then it's all about appeasing the adults. Out of sight out of mind.  Schools appear to have great difficulty in deciphering who is and who isn't. 
Can School Dress Codes Help Curb Gang Violence? 
Canton High Students Suspended On First Day Of School For Wearing 'Gang Related' Shoes | HuffPost


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## Disir (Dec 17, 2017)

Coyote said:


> A dress code doesn't have to mean a uniform.



Nope.Since middle schoolers and high schoolers have their own who is in and who is out club that fashion faux pas will only occur once.  The same problem came up in the 1980s. Leggings as pants will last a short time and then it will be time for a different decade. Again with the stupid bell bottoms.


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## usmbguest5318 (Dec 17, 2017)

fncceo said:


> From the 1954 film. ‘The Belles of St Trinians’


Well, that explains the look.  TY.


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## Slade3200 (Dec 17, 2017)

Disir said:


> Dress code crackdown suspends 150 students, brings criticism
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> About 10 years ago, maybe longer, the NAACP kicked out a report called the School to Prison pipeline. Dress code violations is one of the absolute nonsense violations kids encounter. that leads to them being suspended.


How do you feel about dress code requirements in the work place? Like a law firm requiring lawyers to wear suits?


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## Disir (Dec 17, 2017)

Slade3200 said:


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Court is a different ball game. Commandment one: Thou shalt not push your luck with the Judge.  They can be extremely nitpicky regarding attire and some will tell you.


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## Slade3200 (Dec 17, 2017)

Disir said:


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What about hospitals, sports teams, or even restaurants... most professional work environments have some form of a dress code. Do you have a problem with that or does it sound reasonable to you?


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## Disir (Dec 17, 2017)

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Depends on the environment.  I have a problem with uniforms in public schools.


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## Slade3200 (Dec 17, 2017)

Disir said:


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My question is about dress codes in professional work environments


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## Disir (Dec 17, 2017)

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I heard you.  I told you where my problem is.


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## Slade3200 (Dec 17, 2017)

Disir said:


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> > Disir said:
> ...


I’ll take that as you not having a problem with dress codes in professional work environments. So that leads to my point. If our children are going to move into a work force and culture where dress etiquette is a factor in most work places, then wouldn’t it make sense to include some form of that kind of structure and discipline in our school environment?


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## Disir (Dec 17, 2017)

Slade3200 said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > Slade3200 said:
> ...



Slade, my issue is pretty specific. When it comes to uniforms, there are violations which lead to suspensions. There are several reasons for those violations.  The uniforms are a part of the zero tolerance policies. Those policies have impacted juvenile delinquency.  The American education system is still based on the factory model. A bell tells you when to shift to another class, when to eat lunch, when lunch is over and when quitting time is. It is structured.  The uniforms appease adults.


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## Slade3200 (Dec 17, 2017)

Disir said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> > Disir said:
> ...


I don’t completely disagree with you. I think uniforms are too extreme for public schools, if a private school wants to operate that way then fine. I started this thread with a question about leggings and dress codes though.


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## Disir (Dec 17, 2017)

Slade3200 said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > Slade3200 said:
> ...



And I said back before let the girls wear the leggings. They are usually notified via others that it is a fashion faux pas. The 1980s had the same problems.  Can you see through them? Then it should be fine. The parents buy the clothes and they can make that decision.


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## Slade3200 (Dec 17, 2017)

Disir said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> > Disir said:
> ...


So it sounds like you don’t support a dress code in schools and want to leave it up to the parents... that’s fine but what of the point I made a few posts ago about creating an environment with a similar structure as the majority of professional work environments that’s school is supposed to be preparing our children for?


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## Natural Citizen (Dec 17, 2017)

Asclepias said:


> I went to catholic school for 4 years. My parents bought me 5 pair of pants, 5 shirts and 3 sweaters.



Ha. Me, too. Best education experience I ever had.


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## Disir (Dec 18, 2017)

Slade3200 said:


> So it sounds like you don’t support a dress code in schools and want to leave it up to the parents... that’s fine but what of the point I made a few posts ago about creating an environment with a similar structure as the majority of professional work environments that’s school is supposed to be preparing our children for?



To do what?  Legal has been off-shored, medical--specifically nursing is in the process of being destroyed, the IT sector has been nailed, banking has been outsourced and off-shored. R&D was off-shored some 20 years ago. The US is finally getting around to nanotechnology. The powers that be didn't see there was any profit to be made in robotics 30 years ago.  And as everyone knows there is no shortage of teachers, ya just don't want to pay them. Fix that.

These are the most sought after foreign languages:
Foreign Language — Central Intelligence Agency

So, where are they in the schools? As a rule, there are two languages taught. One is Spanish and the other is French. Hell, there is a four year requirement in the district here but the Spanish teacher only does two years and the French teacher only does two years. The hell is that? Next county over you can learn Chinese in one of the high schools. It's one of the most overcrowded high schools.  The kids are on top of each other and it is notorious for fights.

Coding..why is it not taught in the schools?

A minimum price tag to become a doctor or an attorney is $600,000

I live in an area where there are vo-techs that teach airplane mechanics, auto mechanics and nursing.  Kids spend the last two years of high school going into that. There are a variety of after school clubs that the kids participate in but you have to be in high school for most of them. Robotics is one.  Some schools have incorporated this into the class rooms but most do not. The last competition/meeting the DoD was scouting. YAG is another one. The kids go to the state house and write laws or lobby. They are required to wear suits. Mock Trial is another one.  Depending on funding they actually teach a couple of law courses but most of the time it's all after school and most of the time it is all in high school.

But, do you know what these kids excel at? Taking tests. That is where the funding goes. Millions of dollars spent a year for testing that shows diddly squat.

These are decisions adults make.  Until the adults are capable of addressing the above, then what is being asked for is nothing more than becoming obedient little robots. And that has already been achieved via testing and the factory model school.


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## Unkotare (Dec 18, 2017)

Uniforms are a great idea, but the professional bitchers would have a conniption.


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## Skull Pilot (Dec 18, 2017)

All schools should have a dress code. IMO all students should wear some type of uniform.


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## Esmeralda (Dec 18, 2017)

Slade3200 said:


> It is currently a dress code violation for students to wear uncovered leggings at public schools and many parents have been complaining about it. What are your thoughts about dress code rules in public schools?


I think American school kids should wear uniforms as is done in most countries around the world.  It's just the best thing.


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## Esmeralda (Dec 18, 2017)

JakeStarkey said:


> I agree, Ascelpias, if all students AND teachers must abide by a strict uniform code.


Not teachers. Teachers may have a dress code, but they shouldn't wear uniforms.


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## Esmeralda (Dec 18, 2017)

JakeStarkey said:


> I agree, Ascelpias, if all students AND teachers must abide by a strict uniform code.


This is just f**king stupid. Teachers are professionals with college degrees, many with advanced degrees and many years of work as professionals. Do you wear a uniform to work, do any professionals wear uniforms to work?  The teacher is the adult in the room: not a child. If a teacher dresses inappropriately, you can bet she/he hears about it from administration, and pretty much all schools have dress codes for teachers.  But a uniform is not appropriate. The reason kids have uniforms is to avoid some kids being bullied because they don't have nice clothes like others or because they wear seriously inappropriate things like leggings. Get a grip: teachers are adults.


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## Esmeralda (Dec 18, 2017)

MarathonMike said:


> I was going to post exactly that. Uniforms would solve the problem of inappropriate clothing, gang color issues, and save the parents money.


Yes, that is exactly what it is for.  It also cuts down on bullying of kids who don't dress 'cool' or don't  have money for nice clothes.


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## Esmeralda (Dec 18, 2017)

Xelor said:


> "Maybe" is my answer, but that option doesn't exist among the poll options.  I don't see the matter as binary, which is how the poll answer options tacitly present it.
> 
> I am of the mind that there are very few always-appropriate/always-inappropriate garments for individuals to wear.  What "works" and when and what does not "work" and when depends as much on the wearer as it does on the circumstance of the wearing.
> 
> ...


These are models. They are not middle and high school girls going to class.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 18, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > I agree, Ascelpias, if all students AND teachers must abide by a strict uniform code.
> ...


Teachers should have uniforms to set the standard.

Fashion and design and competition among the teachers is unacceptable just as it is among the students.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 18, 2017)

Grow up, Esmeralda, and stop the entitlement defensiveness.

Teachers, males and females, are not more privileged than their students.  

The purpose of education is not to be the cutest teacher and best dressed teacher at the school.

They are to teach, not fulfill their fashion and personal sense.


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

I wouldn't have a problem with teachers and kids at school wearing uniforms.  Less distractions from the learning environment.  No, teachers shouldn't be leaning over little boy's desks with their cleavage hanging out.  The boy isn't hearing a WORD the teacher is saying at that point!    Children are very easily distracted.


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

In today's world where teachers and students actually have AFFAIRS (as pathetic as that is), then it is only appropriate that they should all have to wear uniforms.  School shouldn't be a fashion show anyways.  All of that takes away from the learning environment and is nothing but a big distraction.


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## Esmeralda (Dec 18, 2017)

JakeStarkey said:


> Esmeralda said:
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BULLSHIT. You are wrong.  Teachers are not competing with how they dress. They are educated professional people who set a standard for the young. YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT EDUCATION OR BEING A TEACHER. Give it up.


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## Esmeralda (Dec 18, 2017)

JakeStarkey said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
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You are being a complete idiot. You're an idiot. You have not got a clue what you are talking about.


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## Esmeralda (Dec 18, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> I wouldn't have a problem with teachers and kids at school wearing uniforms.  Less distractions from the learning environment.  No, teachers shouldn't be leaning over little boy's desks with their cleavage hanging out.  The boy isn't hearing a WORD the teacher is saying at that point!    Children are very easily distracted.


What teachers are going to school with their cleavage hanging out? You people are nuts. 

As I have said twice now, teachers have a dress code, as most professional business people do.  But uniforms are not appropriate or necessary.

It is just astounding how little respect Americans have for the teaching profession. You get what you give, and if you treat teachers like they are not deserving of the professional respect others get, you are not going to get the best going into the profession. I have never heard the likes of the abuse teachers in America get from any other culture.


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## Marion Morrison (Dec 18, 2017)

Idk, when I was in middle school it was coochie cutters and leg warmers. 

Pretty hawt! 

Leggings, well, that shows everything!  Not a good idea around a bunch of hormone-surging kids.


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't have a problem with teachers and kids at school wearing uniforms.  Less distractions from the learning environment.  No, teachers shouldn't be leaning over little boy's desks with their cleavage hanging out.  The boy isn't hearing a WORD the teacher is saying at that point!    Children are very easily distracted.
> ...



Obviously you haven't been to school ever!  There are teachers who dress rather provocatively.


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## Marion Morrison (Dec 18, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> In today's world where teachers and students actually have AFFAIRS (as pathetic as that is), then it is only appropriate that they should all have to wear uniforms.  School shouldn't be a fashion show anyways.  All of that takes away from the learning environment and is nothing but a big distraction.



That happened in yesterday's world, too. Just nobody snitched back then.


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> Idk, when I was in middle school it was coochie cutters and leg warmers.
> 
> Pretty hawt!
> 
> Leggings, well, that shows everything!  Not a good idea around a bunch of hormone-surging kids.



When I was going to school, most teachers were not attractive anyways!


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > In today's world where teachers and students actually have AFFAIRS (as pathetic as that is), then it is only appropriate that they should all have to wear uniforms.  School shouldn't be a fashion show anyways.  All of that takes away from the learning environment and is nothing but a big distraction.
> ...



Nah, I think people had more ethics and more class back in the olden days.


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## Marion Morrison (Dec 18, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
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Well, yes, but things still happened. 

I know the names and the faces..and the boobies.


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

Here is a picture of an ACTUAL 4th grade teacher, taking selfies while in the classroom.  She's looking like she's ready for the club, not the classroom!


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
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> > Marion Morrison said:
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Or you fantasized about knowing such things anyways.  Lol!


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## Marion Morrison (Dec 18, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Here is a picture of an ACTUAL 4th grade teacher, taking selfies while in the classroom.  She's looking like she's ready for the club, not the classroom!



You should have seen the 80s. 

That's tame.

How about braless low-cut leotard top?

Blue sheer chiffon dress. Man, that teacher was pretty. She was a real teacher, though. No hanky-panky there, and you better behave.


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## Marion Morrison (Dec 18, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
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No..real life. Apparently that teacher had some issues. She also had an incredible body. I wasn't involved, yet I know what happened.


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a picture of an ACTUAL 4th grade teacher, taking selfies while in the classroom.  She's looking like she's ready for the club, not the classroom!
> ...



I've never had an attractive teacher, except for one, but she wasn't trashy at all.  She always maintained a professional demeanor and dressed conservatively.  Anyways, these types of accounts just bolsters my argument for having both teachers and students wear uniforms.  There is absolutely no reason whatsoever why any teacher has to dress "sexy" for school, while working with a classroom full of kids.


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
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Yes, I remember little boys who made up all kinds of farfetched stories as well.


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

I think it is probably VERY rare for any very attractive female to be sexually attracted to a little boy in any scenario.  Lol.  However, it does happen on that rare occasion.  That doesn't mean the little boys aren't thinking about HER in a sexual way though, and that is why a dress code at school is appropriate, IMO.  Kids are too easily distracted, especially boys when they reach a certain age.  Not too much stimuli please!


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## Marion Morrison (Dec 18, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
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No, really Chris, this did happen. It was never really exposed, like nowadays, but it kinda was, you know? She left the school.


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
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If everyone who claimed this was telling the truth, then almost ALL female teachers would be in jail!    Come on now, you believe the stories your 12-year-old buddies told you?


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

I remember hearing all kinds of silly stories from young boys, about their teachers, about their peers, about their peers' mothers!


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## Marion Morrison (Dec 18, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
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More than 12. 15-16. Yes, yes I do about that. I know many things. I really don't want to say why, just that I do, and have good reason.


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
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> > Marion Morrison said:
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Oh okay then.  Totally believable.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 18, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> JakeStarkey said:
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You are angry, because you know I am right.  Teachers do compete in how they dress.  Serving on two school boards (once as a President) among other educational activities, I certainly know what I am talking about.

The verbal violence of your answer gives you away.


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
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Most are, but some aren't.  There have been quite a few too many cases of teachers being at least inappropriate with their students, or vice versa.  They need to have rules and regulations as well.


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## Esmeralda (Dec 18, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> In today's world where teachers and students actually have AFFAIRS (as pathetic as that is), then it is only appropriate that they should all have to wear uniforms.  School shouldn't be a fashion show anyways.  All of that takes away from the learning environment and is nothing but a big distraction.


Teachers having sexual relations with students isn't common, and it is not the atmosphere of schools these days. It is extraordinarily rare.  "In fall 2017, about 50.7 million students will attend public elementary and secondary schools in America."  How many events in 2017 involving students and teachers being sexually involved did you hear about?  Even if it were 100, which it probably wasn't anywhere near, 100 would be 0.0002% of 50 million. It's a very small pecentage. So, please, have some common sense: there is no environment where teachers are having sex with students, and teachers are not wearing provocative clothing to work.


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## Esmeralda (Dec 18, 2017)

JakeStarkey said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
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You are NOT right; you are being a fucking idiot.


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > In today's world where teachers and students actually have AFFAIRS (as pathetic as that is), then it is only appropriate that they should all have to wear uniforms.  School shouldn't be a fashion show anyways.  All of that takes away from the learning environment and is nothing but a big distraction.
> ...



I agree that it isn't common, but one time is one time too many.  Besides that, middle school aged boys are very easily distracted by women, whether it be her legs, her breasts, whatever.  Geesh, even full grown men are that way a lot of times!  I don't see why anyone would be against uniforms in school.  I think it would make for a more productive learning environment.  There are a LOT more teachers in the world nowadays because there are more people in general, and unfortunately a lot of people have no class, no couth and no ethics.


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## Esmeralda (Dec 18, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...


You only hear about the bad events in the news. It skews ones understanding of reality.  We hear about things nowadays because there is such extensive media coverage.  There were/are 50.7 million kids in public schools; how many of these events have your heard about this  year?


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

Let Me Google That


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## Esmeralda (Dec 18, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
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Teachers are not children.  Get that through your head. Are you required to wear a uniform to work?  Do you have a master's degree or better? Do you really think it is appropropriate to humiliate professionals with university degrees by making them wear uniforms to work? Only Americans think that way.  Incredible. When is the abuse of teachers in America going to stop?


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

I don't know, but it happens FAR too often, as far as I'm concerned.  Teachers should have a line that they don't cross, but they do cross it.  They are not some special super humans.  They are just regular people, and sometimes they are strange, obviously.


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
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YES.  For some (many actually) jobs you are required to wear a uniform!  Are you serious?


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
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ABUSE of teachers?  Holy shit lady.  Get a grip.


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## Esmeralda (Dec 18, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Here is a picture of an ACTUAL 4th grade teacher, taking selfies while in the classroom.  She's looking like she's ready for the club, not the classroom!


One person, one person. You definitely couldn't be a teacher because you don't know anything about research or logic.  One anecdotal example does not a logical argument make.


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## Esmeralda (Dec 18, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
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Tell me what professionals with college degrees are required to wear a  uniform to work?


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## Esmeralda (Dec 18, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


No, that is not an exaggeration. Americans treat teachers abusively.  No respect for them at all.  It's the only country that I know of that does it.  You treat them worse than you would your maid or baby sitter.


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...



How so?


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## Esmeralda (Dec 18, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Let Me Google That


There aren't any statistics on it as there are too few incidents for a study to be worthwhile.


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Let Me Google That
> ...



If you just google it, then a lot of cases come up.  Pages and pages and pages of them.

Let Me Google That


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

I support uniforms because:  

1.  It would create a more productive learning environment and be less distracting for students (especially male students).  
2.  I think it would actually be a lot cheaper for a lot of parents when it comes time to "back to school clothes shopping."  
3.  It creates less competition and division amongst the children, especially when it comes to the super rich kids whose parents can afford all the latest fashion trends, to the poorest ones who are looked down upon for not having those "designer labels."  
4.  No students robbing other students for their sneakers.  

The only con I see with uniforms is that it limits freedom of self expression but that is just not always appropriate in a school environment.  Besides that, you have all the time outside of the classroom to express your individuality through your clothing (or lack of) choices.  So for me, the pros far outweigh the cons, and that is why I support uniforms in school for both students and staff.  

Not looking to "abuse" anyone.


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

Sorry, the laundry argument is SO lame.  Lol.  You have to wash your regular clothes too!  I'm sorry, but that is a really POOR argument.


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## Esmeralda (Dec 18, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


Why Do Americans Love to Blame Teachers So Much?

Want to Reduce the Teacher Shortage? Treat Teachers Like Professionals - NEA Today
"But here’s the thing: Improving many workplace conditions, giving teachers a voice, treating them as professionals doesn’t have to cost money. It’s a management issue.  Now, it may not be expensive, but that doesn’t make it easy. This is not Singapore or Finland or Korea.  *Teaching is not held in high esteem in this country."*

Just look at how you are treating teachers: Thinking they should wear a  uniform like people who work at McDonalds or airline stewards.  Thinking they are wearing skimpy, provocative clothing and seducing your kids. Thinking they don't care about education, only money. What a joke that is. They are extremely under paid compared to what other college grads make.  Blaming all the problems of America's education on them instead of a society that prduces children with a myriad of social and emotional problems. Look at how people on this board continually talk about teachers: you don't think it is abusive? Then you are wearing blinders.


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
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I would say that the police are FAR more abused AND they have to wear uniforms too!


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## Marion Morrison (Dec 18, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


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## Esmeralda (Dec 18, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> I support uniforms because:
> 
> 1.  It would create a more productive learning environment and be less distracting for students (especially male students).
> 2.  I think it would actually be a lot cheaper for a lot of parents when it comes time to "back to school clothes shopping."
> ...


Well you are doing it anyway. Congratulations.


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## Esmeralda (Dec 18, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


Cops don't have college degrees dear. Teachers don't go to college for 6 years to have to wear uniforms to work. All American teachers have at least a bachelors and most a masters or the equivalent because they are required to take continuing college level professional development courses to keep their licences active. Something else people in other professions are not required to do.


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## Slade3200 (Dec 18, 2017)

Disir said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> > So it sounds like you don’t support a dress code in schools and want to leave it up to the parents... that’s fine but what of the point I made a few posts ago about creating an environment with a similar structure as the majority of professional work environments that’s school is supposed to be preparing our children for?
> ...


Whats with the tangent? You just went off on a variety of subjects that have nothing to do with this discussion. I agree with many of your points by the way, but don't use outside economic conditions and shortcomings in todays educational system to divert from answering the question.

If you are trying to make the point that dress code etiquette shouldn't be in schools because it is no longer a part of our professional workplace or society then make that point. It sounded like you started going down that road saying that the professions I pointed out are being outsources or automated, is that really the point that you are trying to make?


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## koshergrl (Dec 18, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...


American teachers don't deserve respect. They've destroyed our schools. 

Thank goodness the dept. of misinformation is getting a facelift...
Inside Betsy DeVos’s efforts to shrink the Education Department

"In all, the department has shed about 350 workers since December — nearly 8 percent of its staff — including political appointees. With buyouts offered to 255 employees in recent days, DeVos hopes to show even more staff the door.


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## koshergrl (Dec 18, 2017)

Part of growing up is learning that everything isn't about you. We dress to a code as professionals and students because the clothes should not be the focus of attention in most of our lives. You dress in a subdued and modest way in order to show proper respect for institutions...of learning, of law, of whatever. If you dress like a ho in a courtroom, you are likely to receive an earful from the judge...who covers her own clothes with a sober robe in order to indicate authority...and to set the example that it is the law that is important in a courtroom..not the clothes.

The same thing goes for school..not that anybody expects an imbecile like esmeralda to know that. You don't go to school to make a statement about your fashion sense, or your body. You go there to be educated.  Not to draw attention. Dress accordingly. You can dress like a hooker on your own time.


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## Esmeralda (Dec 18, 2017)

koshergrl said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


Perfect example of how teachers in the US are treated abusively by Americans, and it comes most often from people who couldn't get a job as teacher anywhere on this planet at any level.


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## Slade3200 (Dec 18, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> > It is currently a dress code violation for students to wear uncovered leggings at public schools and many parents have been complaining about it. What are your thoughts about dress code rules in public schools?
> ...


I think uniforms are fine for private institutions and I see the benefits in using them but they are too extreme for public schools, IMO. To me a dress code makes sense and provides a happy medium between free expression and discipline/respect for a work environment


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...



Oh, so you are saying that teachers are far too respectable for uniforms?  I think not!  Doctors and nurses also have to wear uniforms to work.


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## ChrisL (Dec 18, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > I support uniforms because:
> ...



No, I'm not abusing anyone.  Wearing a uniform to work is not abusive in any way.


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## Slade3200 (Dec 18, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > I agree, Ascelpias, if all students AND teachers must abide by a strict uniform code.
> ...


Many other public employees wear uniforms... Police, Firefighters, EMTs, Judges, Military etc   I'm not advocating for uniforms in schools but your logic in your last post doesn't really make sense


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## Darkwind (Dec 18, 2017)

Lawyers
Nurses
Doctors
Accountants
Engineers

Just to name a few professions with very advanced degrees that require uniforms.  To say that no profession requires professionals to wear uniforms is just plain assinine.

I am reminded of an axiom that seems to apply to the concept of school uniforms.

"An uncoachable kid becomes and unemployable adult"

The use of school uniforms removes many distractions from the school grounds.  It also teaches a very important lesson in equality.  If every student is dressed the same, then it becomes less about skin color and more about merit and effort.  The very idea that making a rule is going to cause more delinquency is mind-boggling.  That is akin to saying, "If we make drunk driving laws, we are going to create more criminals!"

That argument that teachers should not be required to wear a uniform because they are the adults is as ludicrous a statement as a parent telling a kid, "Do as I say, not as I do."  There are many professions, staffed with people who have advanced degrees, who are required to wear uniforms.

The whole point of school is to prep students for real life.  In the real world, they will have to wear uniforms, and they will have to advance on the merits of their efforts, not because they are 'special'.


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## koshergrl (Dec 18, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> koshergrl said:
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They're laid off because they're worthless and serve no purpose.

Yes, like most of the teachers in the US.


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## usmbguest5318 (Dec 18, 2017)

Xelor said:


> "Maybe" is my answer, but that option doesn't exist among the poll options.  I don't see the matter as binary, which is how the poll answer options tacitly present it.
> 
> I am of the mind that there are very few always-appropriate/always-inappropriate garments for individuals to wear.  What "works" and when and what does not "work" and when depends as much on the wearer as it does on the circumstance of the wearing.
> 
> ...





Esmeralda said:


> These are models. They are not middle and high school girls going to class.



What part of this statement did you not understand?


Xelor said:


> The photos below are of high school students at the high school my son attended.


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## Slade3200 (Dec 18, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


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Oh come on with this college degree stuff. Doctors wear uniforms (that little white coat), Judges wear uniforms ( the black robe). Do I need to keep going? I'm guessing you have a masters degree and think you are above most people. Am I right? And why are you so emotional, your posts read like you have a lot bottled up... Let me guess, you're a psych major


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## koshergrl (Dec 18, 2017)

Slade3200 said:


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I think she's a teacher. 

A mentally ill idiot charged with the care and education of children. Super creepy. Which is why my kids aren't in public school anymore.


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## Slade3200 (Dec 18, 2017)

Darkwind said:


> Lawyers
> Nurses
> Doctors
> Accountants
> ...


I agree with your post however mandating uniforms in our public schools in not realistic. We are having a hard time getting the parents to accept that leggings and jeans with holes are dress code violations. Imagine the backlash if we said that uniforms are going to be required.  I think a dress code provide a happy medium between the two viewpoints. Kids can dress how they want while respecting a certain level of standards.


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## koshergrl (Dec 18, 2017)




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## koshergrl (Dec 18, 2017)




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## JakeStarkey (Dec 18, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


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Yep, the verbal violence continues.

You would style your wile in our district, missy.


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## Darkwind (Dec 18, 2017)

Slade3200 said:


> Darkwind said:
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> > Lawyers
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I don't really have a dog in this fight.  However, the very last thing we should do if we are talking about educating young people to be better citizens is to kowtow to outrage and hurt feelings of people who will find fault with anything that they disagree with.  That way leads to regulations and policies that are so mismatched and hodgepodged that it costs five times as much to enforce than a simple, straightforward edict that students will dress in this uniform and the uniform will be clean.

We need to start showing our young people that they have responsibilities that they will be required to adhere to, both in school and in life.

Either way, it will be a decision of each independent school district.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 18, 2017)

ChrisL said:


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Teachers are not abused in America.

The boards have every right to set standards, including uniforms, for teachers.


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## koshergrl (Dec 18, 2017)

Slade3200 said:


> Darkwind said:
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I think most parents would be fine with it. 

The kids' last school had a uniform..but it was pretty relaxed. Collared shirts, black, brown, or jeans on the bottom..no holes, no leggings except under a dress. No hats inside the school, no hoodies over the head. 

The result was a very comfortable workable arrangement that allowed the kids to be appropriate no matter where they went for the day (they had frequent and spontaneous field trips). It also meant they always had proper attire for their exhibitions The intent was to have the kids present as professional.


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## Disir (Dec 19, 2017)

Slade3200 said:


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yeah........coffee is the bestest. Third cup and my brain was pole dancing to Another Brick in the Wall.   

The point is the kids have structure. They have deadlines. They are told what to do by the sound of a bell.  They have opportunities to dress and interact with professionals. 

What they don't have are the necessary ingredients that I listed above. The education part of education.  Unfortunately, economics plays into it, jobs plays into it. Without it, dress codes and the rational behind them are very superficial. There are bigger fish to fry.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 19, 2017)

A good dress code is the kindling to a bigger fish fry.

Structure and standard undergirds the education process.


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## Esmeralda (Dec 19, 2017)

Slade3200 said:


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It is not the same thing for teachers to wear uniforms as it is for Judges. They wear a robe, something that gives them a higher respect, not something that demeans them. Police, EMTs, firefighters, etc., are not 'professionals' in the sense they are not college graduates.  Most have an associates degree at most, not a bachelors, masters or Phds.  People don't go through 4 to 6 years of higher education to be told they don't know how to dress professionally and are so childish they wear clothing to entice students or show how much cooler they are than their colleagues. Such ideas are insulting and demeaning.

As well, police, fireman and EMTs need to be immediately identified by the people they are helping.  How can you obey a police officer if you can't identify him/her?

In school, the teacher is the adult in the room and should not be treated the same as the student, not in that sense. It is similar to the parent being the parent, the adult, not the child's buddy or friend. For students, uniforms in schools can help prevent bullying. Students new to the school blend in better. There are many good reasons for uniforms.

Most schools, if not all, have dress codes for teachers similar to what other businesses have: professional attire, casual business dress, etc.  Only PE teachers are allowed to come to work in sweats or shorts.  That kind of thing.

I was teaching in an international school that had uniforms for students and a dress code for teachers.  When leggings came into fashion, some of the younger teachers started to wear them. The administration put out a memo that they were not allowed, essentially amending the teacher dress code. They weren't concerned about teachers trying to one up each other or about their trying to be enticing: it was an all girls school with an all female faculty. The admin simply didn't think it looked professional.  Cleavage was also not allowed.  Dressing professionally, generally business casual, is the norm for teacher dress codes; often schools allow jeans on Friday.  Casual Friday.

Forcing teacher to wear uniforms achieves nothing. Schools already have teacher dress codes.  If they need to amend them because of fashion trends, then they should do so.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 19, 2017)

Esmeralda is flat wrong.

Officers wear the same uniform as the enlisted ranks.  So do police officers, firemans, doctors, nurses, etc.

She can yell all she wants, but if the school issues the code, she abides or she glides.


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## Slade3200 (Dec 19, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


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Thanks for presenting an intelligent and logical argument to support your position. A refreshing change of tone from the other day.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 19, 2017)

Disir said:


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There are violations that will lead to suspensions only if the parents and little hellions don't remove their heads from their asses and follow the rules.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 19, 2017)

Disir said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> > So it sounds like you don’t support a dress code in schools and want to leave it up to the parents... that’s fine but what of the point I made a few posts ago about creating an environment with a similar structure as the majority of professional work environments that’s school is supposed to be preparing our children for?
> ...



I'll bet if you actually looked into it, your testing is not nearly as expensive as you think, nor does it take too much time.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 19, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > I agree, Ascelpias, if all students AND teachers must abide by a strict uniform code.
> ...



One of my biggest complaints was the teacher dress code at my last district.  All male teachers were required to wear buttoned shirts, and no polos except on certain days.  No tennis shoes. No jeans.  

Female teachers could wear whatever the hell they wanted.  

Pissed me off!
.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 19, 2017)

ChrisL said:


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Not in any school where I have taught!


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 19, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Here is a picture of an ACTUAL 4th grade teacher, taking selfies while in the classroom.  She's looking like she's ready for the club, not the classroom!



What is wrong with that?

It's not too short or showing too much skin.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 19, 2017)

I have seen some at jhs and hs and uni.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 19, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Marion Morrison said:
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Our incredibly hot cheerleading captain married the physics teacher the day after graduation.  He was old enough to be her father!


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 19, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> ChrisL said:
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Military officers.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 19, 2017)

ChrisL said:


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You don't have to have a degree to be a police officer in many instances.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 19, 2017)

Darkwind said:


> Lawyers
> Nurses
> Doctors
> Accountants
> ...



Accountants wear uniforms?

Engineers wear uniforms?  

On what planet does this occur?

Some doctors and some nurses, maybe.  Not generally.


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## Disir (Dec 19, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Disir said:
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I have.


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## Disir (Dec 19, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Disir said:
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Save it.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 19, 2017)

Disir said:


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Save what?  Does the truth hurt in that ivory tower?


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## Disir (Dec 19, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Disir said:
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I was a probation officer for close to a decade. I am all about violations. Save what you are selling for someone who  is buying. I am not the one.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 19, 2017)

Disir said:


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I was a teacher and assistant principal for two decades.  I'll see your probation officer  and raise you a teacher!


BTW, should find out in January if I get to be a probation and parole officer since I retired from teaching.


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## Disir (Dec 19, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Disir said:
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You aren't raising jack, Jack. I already knew you were a teacher. I don't care. I stopped caring at some point last year after watching you flip out every time something about the education system was mentioned.  

Good luck with that new job. A whole different level of bat shit crazy. You're going to need it.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 19, 2017)

Disir said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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I flip out when people spread lies about my profession.  Education has many challenges, but lying about it is out of bounds.


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## Disir (Dec 19, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Disir said:
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Nobody's lying.  Education has a lot of challenges.  That is why I try to be as specific as possible.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 19, 2017)

Disir said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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In other posts, people lie about education because they are ignorant of the truth and too lazy to find out for themselves.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 19, 2017)

The Admiral and I have a lot of disagreements, but not on these issues.


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## ScienceRocks (Dec 19, 2017)

I think people should be able to wear what ever they wish.

Less fascism in peoples life is a good thing.


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## Slade3200 (Dec 19, 2017)

ScienceRocks said:


> I think people should be able to wear what ever they wish.
> 
> Less fascism in peoples life is a good thing.


Do you think it’s fair for a guy who starts a law firm to require the lawyers he hires to wear a suit to work? Restaurants to require customers to wear shirts and shoes?


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## Esmeralda (Dec 20, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Esmeralda said:
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You can't compare the military to civilians. No comparison.


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## Esmeralda (Dec 20, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Esmeralda said:
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> > JakeStarkey said:
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That's a gender issue. But I'll bet they couldn't wear some things. In any school I've taught in, there was a dress code that essentially called for business casual type of clothing, for both men and women.


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## Esmeralda (Dec 20, 2017)

Slade3200 said:


> ScienceRocks said:
> 
> 
> > I think people should be able to wear what ever they wish.
> ...


A suit isn't a uniform unless all the people at the law firm are required to wear the same exact suit, shirt and tie.  Shirts and shoes in restaurants are not  uniforms by any stretch and the requirement is for hygienic reasons.


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## Slade3200 (Dec 20, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> Slade3200 said:
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I’m not talking about uniforms, I’m talking about dress codes and etiquette. The poster I was responding to said he thought anybody should be able to wear whatever they want and the alternative was fascism


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 20, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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I just answered the question.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 20, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
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This district required dress shirts, slacks and shoes for the men, but absolutely no standards for the women. NONE!


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## Disir (Dec 20, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Disir said:
> 
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> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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There are about five teachers that post on the board. All five have made sure that everyone knows. That's why I figured we could cut the crap and I would "share".  The public education system has been taking a hit since A Nation At Risk.  Consider the fact that there are people that lie about education because they have an ulterior motive. It becomes more pronounced here during election cycles. I completely understand why some of the things are said by the teachers on this forum. They have spent a very long time being on the defense and most of the time over things they have no control over while watching people try to find the 99 reasons not to pay them.  I get it.  

I really hope you get that job and have the opportunity to spend most of your time out in the field. Going out into the community will be a lovely adventure compared to having the community come to you and on your terms.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 20, 2017)

Disir said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
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> > Disir said:
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Your first comments started out very well, but then you made it personal and lost whatever credibility you had.  

On my terms?  You really don't know much about teaching, do you?


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## Disir (Dec 20, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Disir said:
> 
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> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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You made it personal several posts ago. I'm still not caring.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 20, 2017)

Disir said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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I did?  I must have missed it.  Oh, well!  You obviously aren't worth the effort.  Toodles!


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 20, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> Slade3200 said:
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> > ScienceRocks said:
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Yes, 'uniform' is what the boss defines it to be.


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## evenflow1969 (Dec 20, 2017)

JakeStarkey said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > Slade3200 said:
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Ya, let’s go to uniforms. When I was in high school there was a large catholic school close. I was really fond of the easy access the unis gave me and really fond of confession to!


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