# Our Never-Ending "Soccer" Embarrassment



## DGS49

Who did we lose to last week?  Costa Fucking Rica, for God's sake?  You gotta be shittin' me.

With gazillions of American kids now playing football (the game we perversely call, "Soccer") and with even more promising to play "soccer" in the future - what with the concussion paranoia - when will we ever be able to field a competent "soccer" team internationally?

Unfortunately, never.

Our approach to this sport (and to all sports) puts us at an insurmountable disadvantage against international competition.  The same is true in tennis, and would be true in basketball, but for our large population of genetically advantaged, so-called "African-Americans."  The unfortunate fact is that a gifted European basketball player has a better chance of making it in the NBA than a gifted "white" kid from Boston.

The reason:  Basically it is interscholastic sports.  The prominence and dominance of interscholastic sports in this country, from K through Kollege, dictates that all meaningful competition in most sports is basically, BY AGE GROUP.  This is a stupid way to educate children, and a disastrous way to develop top athletic talent.

In more "advanced" countries, they DO NOT HAVE INTERSCHOLASTIC SPORTS(!).  There is no High School basketball team, football team, or any other team.  Their schools are inexplicably focused on educating children and young adults, and do not provide the untold advantages of these athletic extracurricular activities.

In Europe and elsewhere, sports are organized at the "club" and community level, independent of the schools, and independent of the perverse paradigm that limits competition to kids of approximately the same age.  If you are an outstanding player, in any sport, you are competing against other players AT THE SAME SKILL LEVEL, regardless of age.  Dirk Nowitski was playing basketball against adults when he was a teenager, as Rafa Nadal was doing in tennis, and all the European football players were doing in football.  Thus the most outstanding athletes are progressing as rapidly as possible, and are not constrained by forced competition with their mediocre contemporaries.

We have a hint of this in the U.S., with AAU basketball, club tennis, "traveling" "soccer," and Nick Bolletieri's tennis academy, but these are a mere shadow of the opportunities that exist for outstanding athletes outside the U.S.  And they are generally only available to kids from families with significant resources, thus limiting the "pool."

To be clear, I am not a fan of "soccer."  I think it is perverse and boring.  But it is embarrassing to see our national football team exchanging High Fives when we happen to beat a national team from Pago Pago, or some other fucking outpost of a hell-hole.  I also wouldn't mind having another World Number One in Men's tennis, the lack of which is another embarrassment.  (Parenthetically, the reason why Serena Williams developed so significantly better than anyone else was that her father completely rejected the dictates of the American tennis community, and brought his daughters along ACCORDING TO their CAPABILITIES as they progressed, and not according to their age).

I have seen the enemy, and it is us.


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## rightwinger

Who cares?


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## Alfalfa

I thought we just beat Mexico, one of the juggernauts of WC Soccer.


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## Montrovant

Wow, what a strange OP.

Ok, first, the US will probably not do well in international soccer competition until Americans in general give a crap about soccer.

You say the same is true in tennis, but we have US champions in tennis....so I'm not sure what you're thinking.  The Williams sisters are Americans.  Before Nadal was winning titles, Pete Sampras and Andre Agassi were two Americans winning a large portion of the singles titles.  

Take a look at hockey.  The US is competitive internationally.  It's hard to beat Canada and Russia, where the sport is more a part of the culture than it is here, but we are able to field some strong competition and get a few wins.

Taking US soccer losses as somehow indicative of our prowess in all sport is just ridiculous.


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## rightwinger

Montrovant said:


> Wow, what a strange OP.
> 
> Ok, first, the US will probably not do well in international soccer competition until Americans in general give a crap about soccer.
> 
> You say the same is true in tennis, but we have US champions in tennis....so I'm not sure what you're thinking.  The Williams sisters are Americans.  Before Nadal was winning titles, Pete Sampras and Andre Agassi were two Americans winning a large portion of the singles titles.
> 
> Take a look at hockey.  The US is competitive internationally.  It's hard to beat Canada and Russia, where the sport is more a part of the culture than it is here, but we are able to field some strong competition and get a few wins.
> 
> Taking US soccer losses as somehow indicative of our prowess in all sport is just ridiculous.



Americans don't care about soccer.....we just don't

Even our professional soccer leagues are stocked with foreigners and watched mostly by hispanics

I saw it in the 70's when Pele came to play for the Cosmos. Wild predictions about how soccer was the most popular sport in the world, how more kids played soccer than football about how soccer was the sport of the future

America went to watch Pele and Beckenbaur and realized that soccer was just as boring as they thought it was


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## DGS49

But millions of Americans DO care about soccer.  Those with two-digit IQ's are crazy about American "football," but there are enclaves of soccer-mania in DC, Detroit, all over California, and elsewhere.  If you add all these communities together, you would have a fairly populous "country" where soccer is at least as popular as, say, basketball.

I have nephews and neices who were playing soccer as soon as they came out of their mother's womb.  They were competing as 4-year olds, going to camps. playing 11 months a year, in both school and traveling leagues.  With thousands of other kids doing the same thing.  Think they didn't care about soccer?

And Hockey is a different proposition altogether for unrelated reasons.  First of all, it requires a lot of money, which excludes a large portion of the population.  Second of all, it dramatically favors kids from colder climates, who are on skates at approximately the same time as they start to walk.  Kids from Atlanta who want to pursue hockey start playing when they are 12.  Kids from Edmonton are playing hockey at 5.  Which ones will end up in the NHL?


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## TheOldSchool

DGS49 said:


> But millions of Americans DO care about soccer.  Those with two-digit IQ's are crazy about American "football," but there are enclaves of soccer-mania in DC, Detroit, all over California, and elsewhere.  If you add all these communities together, you would have a fairly populous "country" where soccer is at least as popular as, say, basketball.
> 
> I have nephews and neices who were playing soccer as soon as they came out of their mother's womb.  They were competing as 4-year olds, going to camps. playing 11 months a year, in both school and traveling leagues.  With thousands of other kids doing the same thing.  Think they didn't care about soccer?
> 
> And Hockey is a different proposition altogether for unrelated reasons.  First of all, it requires a lot of money, which excludes a large portion of the population.  Second of all, it dramatically favors kids from colder climates, who are on skates at approximately the same time as they start to walk.  Kids from Atlanta who want to pursue hockey start playing when they are 12.  Kids from Edmonton are playing hockey at 5.  Which ones will end up in the NHL?



Soccer will remain the 5th or 6th most popular sport in this country.  What do I care if Liverpool beats Tottenham?  Probably 1 - 0 b/c no one ever scores?

Our best athletes don't play soccer.  Until that happens no one's going to care.

Who's a better athlete - Lionel Messi or Lebron James?


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## rightwinger

DGS49 said:


> But millions of Americans DO care about soccer.  Those with two-digit IQ's are crazy about American "football," but there are enclaves of soccer-mania in DC, Detroit, all over California, and elsewhere.  If you add all these communities together, you would have a fairly populous "country" where soccer is at least as popular as, say, basketball.
> 
> I have nephews and neices who were playing soccer as soon as they came out of their mother's womb.  They were competing as 4-year olds, going to camps. playing 11 months a year, in both school and traveling leagues.  With thousands of other kids doing the same thing.  Think they didn't care about soccer?
> 
> And Hockey is a different proposition altogether for unrelated reasons.  First of all, it requires a lot of money, which excludes a large portion of the population.  Second of all, it dramatically favors kids from colder climates, who are on skates at approximately the same time as they start to walk.  Kids from Atlanta who want to pursue hockey start playing when they are 12.  Kids from Edmonton are playing hockey at 5.  Which ones will end up in the NHL?



American kids play soccer more than football. When they grow up....they watch football

Soccer is just not our culture. Football is king right now. It is bigger than ever before
Soccer is a niche sport that foreigners and our nieces and nephews play. 

Americans find soccer boring.....so do I


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## TheOldSchool

rightwinger said:


> American kids play soccer more than football.



Because soccer is the safest sport.  _Maybe_ a little more dangerous than jogging.


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## longknife

I think you need to remove your cranium from your rectum!

Check this out:

2014 FIFA World Cup Brazil? Preliminaries: North, Central America and Caribbean - Groups and Standings: - FIFA.com

The USA has already qualified for the 2014 World Cup.


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## rightwinger

The excitement of soccer

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYUa7DpPses"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYUa7DpPses[/ame]


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## Immanuel

TheOldSchool said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> American kids play soccer more than football.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because soccer is the safest sport.  _Maybe_ a little more dangerous than jogging.
Click to expand...


And about as exciting as curling.

Immie


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## rightwinger

Immanuel said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> American kids play soccer more than football.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because soccer is the safest sport.  _Maybe_ a little more dangerous than jogging.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And about as exciting as curling.
> 
> Immie
Click to expand...


There is more scoring in curling


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## longknife

I can't disagree with soccer being boring.

90 minutes of running up and down the field with the announcer going crazy just because the opposing team got close or missed a chance at scoring.

About as thrilling as watching a quilting bee.


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## Montrovant

DGS49 said:


> But millions of Americans DO care about soccer.  Those with two-digit IQ's are crazy about American "football," but there are enclaves of soccer-mania in DC, Detroit, all over California, and elsewhere.  If you add all these communities together, you would have a fairly populous "country" where soccer is at least as popular as, say, basketball.
> 
> I have nephews and neices who were playing soccer as soon as they came out of their mother's womb.  They were competing as 4-year olds, going to camps. playing 11 months a year, in both school and traveling leagues.  With thousands of other kids doing the same thing.  Think they didn't care about soccer?
> 
> And Hockey is a different proposition altogether for unrelated reasons.  First of all, it requires a lot of money, which excludes a large portion of the population.  Second of all, it dramatically favors kids from colder climates, who are on skates at approximately the same time as they start to walk.  Kids from Atlanta who want to pursue hockey start playing when they are 12.  Kids from Edmonton are playing hockey at 5.  Which ones will end up in the NHL?



Because soccer is clearly an 'intelligent' sport?  

It's all about preference, the culture you grow up in, availability, etc.  Intelligence doesn't determine which sports a person will enjoy watching, and that is the driving force behind how well we are likely to do in a sport against other nations.  More people watching = more money, more exposure, more people wanting to play.

You talk about the millions who care about soccer in the US....but clearly they don't care enough that it becomes one of our major sports, despite the fact that most of the rest of the world has soccer as their top sport.

Americans are not soccer fans in general.  However, as others have pointed out, apparently we can and do compete on the international level, at least somewhat.


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## rightwinger

Montrovant said:


> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But millions of Americans DO care about soccer.  Those with two-digit IQ's are crazy about American "football," but there are enclaves of soccer-mania in DC, Detroit, all over California, and elsewhere.  If you add all these communities together, you would have a fairly populous "country" where soccer is at least as popular as, say, basketball.
> 
> I have nephews and neices who were playing soccer as soon as they came out of their mother's womb.  They were competing as 4-year olds, going to camps. playing 11 months a year, in both school and traveling leagues.  With thousands of other kids doing the same thing.  Think they didn't care about soccer?
> 
> And Hockey is a different proposition altogether for unrelated reasons.  First of all, it requires a lot of money, which excludes a large portion of the population.  Second of all, it dramatically favors kids from colder climates, who are on skates at approximately the same time as they start to walk.  Kids from Atlanta who want to pursue hockey start playing when they are 12.  Kids from Edmonton are playing hockey at 5.  Which ones will end up in the NHL?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because soccer is clearly an 'intelligent' sport?
> 
> It's all about preference, the culture you grow up in, availability, etc.  Intelligence doesn't determine which sports a person will enjoy watching, and that is the driving force behind how well we are likely to do in a sport against other nations.  More people watching = more money, more exposure, more people wanting to play.
> 
> You talk about the millions who care about soccer in the US....but clearly they don't care enough that it becomes one of our major sports, despite the fact that most of the rest of the world has soccer as their top sport.
> 
> Americans are not soccer fans in general.  However, as others have pointed out, apparently we can and do compete on the international level, at least somewhat.
Click to expand...


Many of our college soccer players are foreign born. So are many of our soccer fans. If you love the game.....great
Just don't expect it to take on major sports status in the US


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## Unkotare

DGS49 said:


> Who did we lose to last week?  Costa Fucking Rica, for God's sake?  You gotta be shittin' me...





[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLk4Ia0otko]Family Guy - OMG WHO THE HELL CARES! - YouTube[/ame]


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## rightwinger

The key to soccer is you get to sit for 90 minutes to watch one goal get scored

No wonder the world loves it so much


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## TheOldSchool

rightwinger said:


> The key to soccer is you get to sit for 90 minutes to watch one goal get scored
> 
> No wonder the world loves it so much



Have you ever played the FIFA video games?  They're awesome.  Probably the best of all the sports games!

But soccer in real life?  I don't get it.

I'll watch the world cup, but it'll probably just be on in the background.


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## TheOldSchool

Did any of you watch the women's world cup?  It's way better!  America is the favorite because, come on, we treat our women the best.  But I also think that their brand of soccer is more fun to watch.  There aren't as many teams and it's WAY harder for them to make a living off of it.  That's something I can fully support!


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## Moonglow

Now you know why the South American fans have ball-in-a-cup to keep them occupied during a soccer game.
Europeans get drunk and riot and North Americans have the Iphones.


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## TheOldSchool

A quick men vs. women question.  Which famous soccer player can you take more seriously?






VS.


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## MeBelle

DGS49 said:


> But millions of Americans DO care about soccer.  Those with two-digit IQ's are crazy about American "football," but there are enclaves of soccer-mania in DC, Detroit, all over California, and elsewhere.  If you add all these communities together, you would have a fairly populous "country" where soccer is at least as popular as, say, basketball.
> 
> I have nephews and neices who were playing soccer as soon as they came out of their mother's womb.  They were competing as 4-year olds, going to camps. playing 11 months a year, in both school and traveling leagues.  With thousands of other kids doing the same thing.  Think they didn't care about soccer?



I believe that soccer in America will change with each generation.

My family is second generation soccer players/coaches/refs.
My husband played soccer all through college. 

Soccer boring?
Not to the players.

And there is nothing as sweeeeeeeeeeet as watching the team work together and my youngest kicking it in the GOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLL!


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## Moonglow

Sorry, but I liked hurting people and getting a pat on the back while playing 12 years of football. The only thing that came close was the military, where they pat you on the back for killing.


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## TheOldSchool

VS.


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## TheOldSchool

^ I'd like to see some responses for that if ya please


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## Unkotare

MeBelle60 said:


> Soccer boring?






Soccer boring.


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## Moonglow

TheOldSchool said:


> ^ I'd like to see some responses for that if ya please



Leprechauns are in the pro soccer league now?
I gotz these ears from my team mates pulling hard when I was on my knees.
I'm half Romulan and half Vulcan.


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## Unkotare

Moonglow said:


> Sorry, but I liked hurting people and getting a pat on the back while playing 12 years of football. .







Wow, that's a long game.


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## TheOldSchool

Moonglow said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^ I'd like to see some responses for that if ya please
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leprechauns are in the pro soccer league now?
> I gotz these ears from my team mates pulling hard when I was on my knees.
> I'm half Romulan and half Vulcan.
Click to expand...


Leprechauns can score 1 goal every 47 games.  That qualifies them for the hall of fame.


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## Moonglow

Unkotare said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I liked hurting people and getting a pat on the back while playing 12 years of football. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, that's a long game.
Click to expand...


I had more stamina back then.


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## Unkotare

Moonglow said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I liked hurting people and getting a pat on the back while playing 12 years of football. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, that's a long game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I had more stamina back then.
Click to expand...



Musta been about a million overtimes.


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## MeBelle

unkotare said:


> mebelle60 said:
> 
> 
> 
> soccer boring?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> soccer boring.
Click to expand...


*booooooooooo!  Hissssssssssss!*


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## MeBelle

TheOldSchool said:


> ^ I'd like to see some responses for that if ya please



High testosterone? 

That's all I got...


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## Moonglow

MeBelle60 said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^ I'd like to see some responses for that if ya please
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High testosterone?
> 
> That's all I got...
Click to expand...


The important thing is that you tried.


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## Toro

Soccer is a great sport, but it's the fifth most popular team sport in the US as compared by professional revenues.  It's growing but it's not surprising that America isn't a global power in the sport.


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## rightwinger

MeBelle60 said:


> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But millions of Americans DO care about soccer.  Those with two-digit IQ's are crazy about American "football," but there are enclaves of soccer-mania in DC, Detroit, all over California, and elsewhere.  If you add all these communities together, you would have a fairly populous "country" where soccer is at least as popular as, say, basketball.
> 
> I have nephews and neices who were playing soccer as soon as they came out of their mother's womb.  They were competing as 4-year olds, going to camps. playing 11 months a year, in both school and traveling leagues.  With thousands of other kids doing the same thing.  Think they didn't care about soccer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I believe that soccer in America will change with each generation.
> 
> My family is second generation soccer players/coaches/refs.
> My husband played soccer all through college.
> 
> Soccer boring?
> Not to the players.
> 
> And there is nothing as sweeeeeeeeeeet as watching the team work together and my youngest kicking it in the GOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLL!
Click to expand...


If your family enjoys soccer....great
Its a great game for kids to play. 

But the country is never going to embrace soccer. It is not our culture. Americans will watch during the Olympics and World Cup but most people are left scratching their heads as to why it is so popular globally


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## L.K.Eder

TheOldSchool said:


> VS.





hahahahahahahaha


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## Unkotare

Toro said:


> Soccer is a great sport, but it's the fifth most popular team sport in the US as compared by professional revenues.  It's growing but it's not surprising that America isn't a global power in the sport.




It's even further down the list if you count college and professional football and basketball separately.


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## Sunni Man

Soccer is gay.........


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## rightwinger

Unkotare said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Soccer is a great sport, but it's the fifth most popular team sport in the US as compared by professional revenues.  It's growing but it's not surprising that America isn't a global power in the sport.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's even further down the list if you count college and professional football and basketball separately.
Click to expand...


It is even further down the list if you consider non-team sports like golf, tennis, NASCAR, MMA/Boxing


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## Unkotare

rightwinger said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Soccer is a great sport, but it's the fifth most popular team sport in the US as compared by professional revenues.  It's growing but it's not surprising that America isn't a global power in the sport.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's even further down the list if you count college and professional football and basketball separately.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is even further down the list if you consider non-team sports like golf, tennis, NASCAR, MMA/Boxing
Click to expand...


It is even further down the list if you consider all sports that aren't boring as hell and just a way to keep young children busy until they're old enough to participate in real sports.


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## L.K.Eder

this is why americans are exceptional.


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## HereWeGoAgain

Soccer...popular in so many countries because all you need is a ball.

Much rather watch a bunch of huge dudes put on what amounts to armor,go out and knock the piss out of each other.


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## rightwinger

In every other sport, if the ball hits you in the head, people laugh at you

In Soccer....they cheer


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## L.K.Eder

rightwinger said:


> In every other sport, if the ball hits you in the head, people laugh at you
> 
> In Soccer....they cheer



in football, they laugh at you as well, if the ball hits you in the head.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsU_0jCemsc]Piplica - YouTube[/ame]


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## rightwinger

This would count as a goal in soccer

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLs0pjWnzTY"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLs0pjWnzTY[/ame]


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## L.K.Eder

rightwinger said:


> This would count as a goal in soccer
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLs0pjWnzTY



as an own goal.


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## High_Gravity

DGS49 said:


> Who did we lose to last week?  Costa Fucking Rica, for God's sake?  You gotta be shittin' me.
> 
> With gazillions of American kids now playing football (the game we perversely call, "Soccer") and with even more promising to play "soccer" in the future - what with the concussion paranoia - when will we ever be able to field a competent "soccer" team internationally?
> 
> Unfortunately, never.
> 
> Our approach to this sport (and to all sports) puts us at an insurmountable disadvantage against international competition.  The same is true in tennis, and would be true in basketball, but for our large population of genetically advantaged, so-called "African-Americans."  The unfortunate fact is that a gifted European basketball player has a better chance of making it in the NBA than a gifted "white" kid from Boston.
> 
> The reason:  Basically it is interscholastic sports.  The prominence and dominance of interscholastic sports in this country, from K through Kollege, dictates that all meaningful competition in most sports is basically, BY AGE GROUP.  This is a stupid way to educate children, and a disastrous way to develop top athletic talent.
> 
> In more "advanced" countries, they DO NOT HAVE INTERSCHOLASTIC SPORTS(!).  There is no High School basketball team, football team, or any other team.  Their schools are inexplicably focused on educating children and young adults, and do not provide the untold advantages of these athletic extracurricular activities.
> 
> In Europe and elsewhere, sports are organized at the "club" and community level, independent of the schools, and independent of the perverse paradigm that limits competition to kids of approximately the same age.  If you are an outstanding player, in any sport, you are competing against other players AT THE SAME SKILL LEVEL, regardless of age.  Dirk Nowitski was playing basketball against adults when he was a teenager, as Rafa Nadal was doing in tennis, and all the European football players were doing in football.  Thus the most outstanding athletes are progressing as rapidly as possible, and are not constrained by forced competition with their mediocre contemporaries.
> 
> We have a hint of this in the U.S., with AAU basketball, club tennis, "traveling" "soccer," and Nick Bolletieri's tennis academy, but these are a mere shadow of the opportunities that exist for outstanding athletes outside the U.S.  And they are generally only available to kids from families with significant resources, thus limiting the "pool."
> 
> To be clear, I am not a fan of "soccer."  I think it is perverse and boring.  But it is embarrassing to see our national football team exchanging High Fives when we happen to beat a national team from Pago Pago, or some other fucking outpost of a hell-hole.  I also wouldn't mind having another World Number One in Men's tennis, the lack of which is another embarrassment.  (Parenthetically, the reason why Serena Williams developed so significantly better than anyone else was that her father completely rejected the dictates of the American tennis community, and brought his daughters along ACCORDING TO their CAPABILITIES as they progressed, and not according to their age).
> 
> I have seen the enemy, and it is us.



So what? we beat the pants off of Mexico a few days ago and we are now ranked #13 in the FIFA rankings, there you can sleep well tonight.


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## DGS49

As Americans, we must acknowledge that Baseball is just as excruciatingly boring to foreigners who were not raised with it as is "soccer" to most of us.  In addition, it seems apparent that if you have a sophisticated knowledge of "soccer" it  becomes less insufferable and, like baseball, the 1-0 games are not "the worst and most boring ones to watch," but rather the most exciting and entertaining - for those who know WTF is going on.

So it won't do simply to say that soccer is boring and Americans will never embrace it.  The rest of the fucking world - First world, second world, and third world - have indeed embraced it, and they can't all just be stupid.

My point is that with the millions of Americans who HAVE embraced it, we remain, in effect, a "Third World" competitor in soccer.  But it's not because, "Americans just don't like it," but rather it is  because our method of nurturing our most gifted players is not conducive to their optimum development.

I propose the following:  Every American must contribute to a "Soccer Fund," as follows:  If you love soccer, you must contribute a dollar - because you love soccer and it's the right thing to do.  If you hate soccer, you must contribute two dollars, because you hate it and you want to be rid of it.  The accumulated money will go into a fund to deport young, talented kids from the U.S. to soccer hotbeds around the world, where they can develop their skills at a more rapid pace.  Then they can come back here and play for the Good Old U S of A, by golly.

Then maybe we won't suck.


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## Immanuel

Unkotare said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Soccer is a great sport, but it's the fifth most popular team sport in the US as compared by professional revenues.  It's growing but it's not surprising that America isn't a global power in the sport.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's even further down the list if you count college and professional football and basketball separately.
Click to expand...


And bowling, tennis, golf, women's beach volleyball, badminton, horse racing, auto racing, boxing, cricket, lacrosse.  Okay, well maybe not cricket.

Soccer is a fun sport to play, but it is boring as hell to watch.

Immie


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## rightwinger

Immanuel said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Soccer is a great sport, but it's the fifth most popular team sport in the US as compared by professional revenues.  It's growing but it's not surprising that America isn't a global power in the sport.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's even further down the list if you count college and professional football and basketball separately.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And bowling, tennis, golf, women's beach volleyball, badminton, horse racing, auto racing, boxing, cricket, lacrosse.  Okay, well maybe not cricket.
> 
> Soccer is a fun sport to play, but it is boring as hell to watch.
> 
> Immie
Click to expand...


Soccer would not be so boring if they did not try so hard to make it so

World class soccer is played with an objective of not losing rather than winning. Don't push the advantage, lay back, wait for your opponent to make a mistake

If all else fails......flop to the ground and writhe  in agony


----------



## Toro

Given that baseball - America's national pastime - has roughly six minutes of action, criticism of other sports by Americans will be taken with a really, really big grain of salt.


----------



## Toro

rightwinger said:


> This would count as a goal in soccer
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLs0pjWnzTY



That's the funniest thing I've ever seen in sports.


----------



## High_Gravity

DGS49 said:


> As Americans, we must acknowledge that Baseball is just as excruciatingly boring to foreigners who were not raised with it as is "soccer" to most of us.  In addition, it seems apparent that if you have a sophisticated knowledge of "soccer" it  becomes less insufferable and, like baseball, the 1-0 games are not "the worst and most boring ones to watch," but rather the most exciting and entertaining - for those who know WTF is going on.
> 
> So it won't do simply to say that soccer is boring and Americans will never embrace it.  The rest of the fucking world - First world, second world, and third world - have indeed embraced it, and they can't all just be stupid.
> 
> My point is that with the millions of Americans who HAVE embraced it, we remain, in effect, a "Third World" competitor in soccer.  But it's not because, "Americans just don't like it," but rather it is  because our method of nurturing our most gifted players is not conducive to their optimum development.
> 
> I propose the following:  Every American must contribute to a "Soccer Fund," as follows:  If you love soccer, you must contribute a dollar - because you love soccer and it's the right thing to do.  If you hate soccer, you must contribute two dollars, because you hate it and you want to be rid of it.  The accumulated money will go into a fund to deport young, talented kids from the U.S. to soccer hotbeds around the world, where they can develop their skills at a more rapid pace.  Then they can come back here and play for the Good Old U S of A, by golly.
> 
> Then maybe we won't suck.



Dude relax, we beat Germany in soccer not too long and whupped on Mexico a few days ago, got in the world cup and are ranked #13 in the world, calm down.


----------



## Unkotare

DGS49 said:


> But it's not because, "Americans just don't like it," but rather it is  because our method of nurturing our most gifted players is not conducive to their optimum development..




It's because American kids who show any athletic potential gravitate to other sports.


----------



## Unkotare

Toro said:


> Given that baseball - America's national pastime - has roughly six minutes of action, criticism of other sports by Americans will be taken with a really, really big grain of salt.




The difference is that nobody sits at a baseball game during a pitching change screaming like maniacs, tearing their hair out, blowing on vuvuzelas, starting fires, or otherwise pretending it is something other than the game of a certain pace that it is. I wonder if soccer fans sit at home screaming and crying as they watch paint dry so they can convince themselves it's "beautiful" and pulse-pounding excitement.


----------



## Montrovant

DGS49 said:


> As Americans, we must acknowledge that Baseball is just as excruciatingly boring to foreigners who were not raised with it as is "soccer" to most of us.  In addition, it seems apparent that if you have a sophisticated knowledge of "soccer" it  becomes less insufferable and, like baseball, the 1-0 games are not "the worst and most boring ones to watch," but rather the most exciting and entertaining - for those who know WTF is going on.
> 
> So it won't do simply to say that soccer is boring and Americans will never embrace it.  The rest of the fucking world - First world, second world, and third world - have indeed embraced it, and they can't all just be stupid.
> 
> My point is that with the millions of Americans who HAVE embraced it, we remain, in effect, a "Third World" competitor in soccer.  But it's not because, "Americans just don't like it," but rather it is  because our method of nurturing our most gifted players is not conducive to their optimum development.
> 
> I propose the following:  Every American must contribute to a "Soccer Fund," as follows:  If you love soccer, you must contribute a dollar - because you love soccer and it's the right thing to do.  If you hate soccer, you must contribute two dollars, because you hate it and you want to be rid of it.  The accumulated money will go into a fund to deport young, talented kids from the U.S. to soccer hotbeds around the world, where they can develop their skills at a more rapid pace.  Then they can come back here and play for the Good Old U S of A, by golly.
> 
> Then maybe we won't suck.



Ah, the old, "It's not boring, you just don't understand!" excuse.  It's one I've heard plenty of times in reference to various sports.

Here's the thing : plenty of people can understand exactly what is going on and STILL find a game boring.  

I find golf excruciatingly boring to watch.  It's not because I don't understand it, I just don't enjoy it.  The same is true for soccer, for baseball, and probably many other sports. 

That the majority of the world considers soccer the top sport doesn't make it so.  Yes, they absolutely can be wrong.

Oh, and one other thing.  I don't care enough about soccer to want to pay to be rid of it.  Soccer can stay or go, I just don't give a damn.


----------



## Unkotare

rightwinger said:


> If all else fails......flop to the ground and writhe  in agony





In Game 3 of the NHL Eastern Conference Finals Greg Campbell played with a broken leg. If one soccer player comes within ten feet of another they both dive to the ground and perform something like a death scene from a really bad movie.


----------



## Montrovant

Unkotare said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Given that baseball - America's national pastime - has roughly six minutes of action, criticism of other sports by Americans will be taken with a really, really big grain of salt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difference is that nobody sits at a baseball game during a pitching change screaming like maniacs, tearing their hair out, blowing on vuvuzelas, starting fires, or otherwise pretending it is something other than the game of a certain pace that it is. I wonder if soccer fans sit at home screaming and crying as they watch paint dry so they can convince themselves it's "beautiful" and pulse-pounding excitement.
Click to expand...




I bet someone has done all of those things at a baseball game at one time or another!


----------



## Montrovant

Toro said:


> Given that baseball - America's national pastime - has roughly six minutes of action, criticism of other sports by Americans will be taken with a really, really big grain of salt.



Baseball may be called America's pastime, but it's an empty title nowadays.  NFL football became America's most popular sport a while ago.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

I follow US Soccer. For the Costa Rica game, we lost our most important player (Michael Bradley) to a type two ankle sprain in pre-game. Not many players are going to beat the second best team in their region on the road when that occurs. He is world wide elite play maker. Despite that, we were down 1-2 when Clint Dempsey hit a shot off the post that would have tied it in about the 70th minute.

Now, I don't mean to whitewash things. There are serious issues with our back line that we need to straighten up by the WC. Currently, it's the least stable back line, I've seen in the modern US soccer era (25 years). But, our attack is as good as it's ever been. It's ironic, cos in the past we were a defensive oriented team that looked for over the top offensive counters. Now, we are much more technically skilled than ever and we have a shaky back four. But it's not all bad news. At the center back, Gonzalez, Goodson, Besler, Cameron, Brooks; between those 5 decent player, we can hopefully find a combo that works great. At the ends of the line, we've been dealing with some injury issues and that has hurt. But, a guy like Fabian Johnson who can attack from the left wing is great. Fortunately, we have a relatively large amount of time to figure this out before the World Cup. But, ideally, this issue would have been solved by now.


----------



## Unkotare

Montrovant said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Given that baseball - America's national pastime - has roughly six minutes of action, criticism of other sports by Americans will be taken with a really, really big grain of salt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difference is that nobody sits at a baseball game during a pitching change screaming like maniacs, tearing their hair out, blowing on vuvuzelas, starting fires, or otherwise pretending it is something other than the game of a certain pace that it is. I wonder if soccer fans sit at home screaming and crying as they watch paint dry so they can convince themselves it's "beautiful" and pulse-pounding excitement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bet someone has done all of those things at a baseball game at one time or another!
Click to expand...



It's too expensive to get that drunk at a baseball game.


----------



## Immanuel

Toro said:


> Given that baseball - America's national pastime - has roughly six minutes of action, criticism of other sports by Americans will be taken with a really, really big grain of salt.



True, baseball is America's pastime.  It helps us pass the days from Super Bowl to Hall of Fame Game and damn those can be some long days!

Immie


----------



## Toro

Unkotare said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Given that baseball - America's national pastime - has roughly six minutes of action, criticism of other sports by Americans will be taken with a really, really big grain of salt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difference is that nobody sits at a baseball game during a pitching change screaming like maniacs, tearing their hair out, blowing on vuvuzelas, starting fires, or otherwise pretending it is something other than the game of a certain pace that it is. I wonder if soccer fans sit at home screaming and crying as they watch paint dry so they can convince themselves it's "beautiful" and pulse-pounding excitement.
Click to expand...


You're right. 

I was once told to be quiet at an MLB game by a stadium attendant because we were being too loud 20 rows up from the home dugout. 

True story.


----------



## Toro

Immanuel said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Given that baseball - America's national pastime - has roughly six minutes of action, criticism of other sports by Americans will be taken with a really, really big grain of salt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True, baseball is America's pastime.  It helps us pass the days from Super Bowl to Hall of Fame Game and damn those can be some long days!
> 
> Immie
Click to expand...


I have Sunday Ticket because I like the NFL. It's a great game to DVR because you can watch a game in about 30 minutes.


----------



## Montrovant

Toro said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Given that baseball - America's national pastime - has roughly six minutes of action, criticism of other sports by Americans will be taken with a really, really big grain of salt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True, baseball is America's pastime.  It helps us pass the days from Super Bowl to Hall of Fame Game and damn those can be some long days!
> 
> Immie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have Sunday Ticket because I like the NFL. It's a great game to DVR because you can watch a game in about 30 minutes.
Click to expand...


Football does have a lot of down time.  The actual playing is a lot more fun to watch than baseball or soccer, though.


----------



## Immanuel

Montrovant said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> True, baseball is America's pastime.  It helps us pass the days from Super Bowl to Hall of Fame Game and damn those can be some long days!
> 
> Immie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have Sunday Ticket because I like the NFL. It's a great game to DVR because you can watch a game in about 30 minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Football does have a lot of down time.  The actual playing is a lot more fun to watch than baseball or soccer, though.
Click to expand...


Not as much downtime as baseball, but I have to admit the last few times I went to an NFL game it sure seemed like the game has slowed down a hell of a lot.  Used to be action all the time now they seem to have delays for TV Commercials between every damned play.  I guess I don't notice it as much when I'm watching the game on TV and doing other things i.e. posting here.

As for DVRing a game... I have never found watching a game that has already been played and that I know the outcome of the game to be worth it.  I may as well catch the highlights on ESPN.  If you already know who is going to win who cares?  It is like reading the final pages of a good book first... why bother reading the rest of the book if you already know the outcome?

Immie


----------



## CrusaderFrank

TheOldSchool said:


> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But millions of Americans DO care about soccer.  Those with two-digit IQ's are crazy about American "football," but there are enclaves of soccer-mania in DC, Detroit, all over California, and elsewhere.  If you add all these communities together, you would have a fairly populous "country" where soccer is at least as popular as, say, basketball.
> 
> I have nephews and neices who were playing soccer as soon as they came out of their mother's womb.  They were competing as 4-year olds, going to camps. playing 11 months a year, in both school and traveling leagues.  With thousands of other kids doing the same thing.  Think they didn't care about soccer?
> 
> And Hockey is a different proposition altogether for unrelated reasons.  First of all, it requires a lot of money, which excludes a large portion of the population.  Second of all, it dramatically favors kids from colder climates, who are on skates at approximately the same time as they start to walk.  Kids from Atlanta who want to pursue hockey start playing when they are 12.  Kids from Edmonton are playing hockey at 5.  Which ones will end up in the NHL?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soccer will remain the 5th or 6th most popular sport in this country.  What do I care if Liverpool beats Tottenham?  Probably 1 - 0 b/c no one ever scores?
> 
> Our best athletes don't play soccer.  Until that happens no one's going to care.
> 
> Who's a better athlete - Lionel Messi or Lebron James?
Click to expand...


Neymar


----------



## Toro

Messi's better than Neymar. 

FTR, James is a shareholder in Liverpool FC.


----------



## Unkotare

Immanuel said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have Sunday Ticket because I like the NFL. It's a great game to DVR because you can watch a game in about 30 minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Football does have a lot of down time.  The actual playing is a lot more fun to watch than baseball or soccer, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not as much downtime as baseball, but I have to admit the last few times I went to an NFL game it sure seemed like the game has slowed down a hell of a lot.  Used to be action all the time now they seem to have delays for TV Commercials between every damned play.  I guess I don't notice it as much when I'm watching the game on TV and doing other things i.e. posting here.
> 
> As for DVRing a game... I have never found watching a game that has already been played and that I know the outcome of the game to be worth it.  I may as well catch the highlights on ESPN.  If you already know who is going to win who cares?  It is like reading the final pages of a good book first... why bother reading the rest of the book if you already know the outcome?
> 
> Immie
Click to expand...



If I can't catch a game I'll sometimes ask the Mrs. to record it for me. Then the hard part becomes getting home without hearing anything about the outcome. It's surprisingly difficult to do sometimes.


----------



## longknife

One of the main reasons why soccer is so popular world wide is simple - all one needs is a ball! It can be played anywhere by everybody.


----------



## Montrovant

Unkotare said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Football does have a lot of down time.  The actual playing is a lot more fun to watch than baseball or soccer, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not as much downtime as baseball, but I have to admit the last few times I went to an NFL game it sure seemed like the game has slowed down a hell of a lot.  Used to be action all the time now they seem to have delays for TV Commercials between every damned play.  I guess I don't notice it as much when I'm watching the game on TV and doing other things i.e. posting here.
> 
> As for DVRing a game... I have never found watching a game that has already been played and that I know the outcome of the game to be worth it.  I may as well catch the highlights on ESPN.  If you already know who is going to win who cares?  It is like reading the final pages of a good book first... why bother reading the rest of the book if you already know the outcome?
> 
> Immie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If I can't catch a game I'll sometimes ask the Mrs. to record it for me. Then the hard part becomes getting home without hearing anything about the outcome. It's surprisingly difficult to do sometimes.
Click to expand...


I HATE when someone blabs the outcome of a game to me when I am waiting to watch the recording!


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

CrusaderFrank said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But millions of Americans DO care about soccer.  Those with two-digit IQ's are crazy about American "football," but there are enclaves of soccer-mania in DC, Detroit, all over California, and elsewhere.  If you add all these communities together, you would have a fairly populous "country" where soccer is at least as popular as, say, basketball.
> 
> I have nephews and neices who were playing soccer as soon as they came out of their mother's womb.  They were competing as 4-year olds, going to camps. playing 11 months a year, in both school and traveling leagues.  With thousands of other kids doing the same thing.  Think they didn't care about soccer?
> 
> And Hockey is a different proposition altogether for unrelated reasons.  First of all, it requires a lot of money, which excludes a large portion of the population.  Second of all, it dramatically favors kids from colder climates, who are on skates at approximately the same time as they start to walk.  Kids from Atlanta who want to pursue hockey start playing when they are 12.  Kids from Edmonton are playing hockey at 5.  Which ones will end up in the NHL?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soccer will remain the 5th or 6th most popular sport in this country.  What do I care if Liverpool beats Tottenham?  Probably 1 - 0 b/c no one ever scores?
> 
> Our best athletes don't play soccer.  Until that happens no one's going to care.
> 
> Who's a better athlete - Lionel Messi or Lebron James?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neymar
Click to expand...




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tezk-XsLiNY]Messi vs Neymar ? The Big Difference - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Immanuel

Montrovant said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not as much downtime as baseball, but I have to admit the last few times I went to an NFL game it sure seemed like the game has slowed down a hell of a lot.  Used to be action all the time now they seem to have delays for TV Commercials between every damned play.  I guess I don't notice it as much when I'm watching the game on TV and doing other things i.e. posting here.
> 
> As for DVRing a game... I have never found watching a game that has already been played and that I know the outcome of the game to be worth it.  I may as well catch the highlights on ESPN.  If you already know who is going to win who cares?  It is like reading the final pages of a good book first... why bother reading the rest of the book if you already know the outcome?
> 
> Immie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I can't catch a game I'll sometimes ask the Mrs. to record it for me. Then the hard part becomes getting home without hearing anything about the outcome. It's surprisingly difficult to do sometimes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I HATE when someone blabs the outcome of a game to me when I am waiting to watch the recording!
Click to expand...


Hey, just in case you missed last night's game, I'm gonna spoil it for you...






































NOT!

Immie


----------



## HUGGY

rightwinger said:


> Who cares?



Exactly.  Just ban the soccor from U S soil.  Problem solved.


----------



## Merchant_of_Meh

I'm soccer through and through and have been all my life. I've played it all throughout my school years and I still play with my local club. There are millions of Americans like that who never stopped playing the game after they grew up so this whole nonsense about soccer only being a kid's game is utter bullshit. 

Secondly, anyone who thinks that it's just Hispanics who are fans of this games needs to watch a Seattle Sounders home game. Crowd is as white as the driven snow ffs and regularly sells out at 30K+ each game.  Hell, look at the crowds of the USA games...they've slowly turned from brown to white, directly correlating with how good this team is getting. Obviously when we play sides like Costa Rica or Honduras or El Salvador, the ratio still turns against us in that regard, but that's slowly turning around.

Thirdly, as a soccer purist, I do not prefer high scoring games so while a 1-0 or 0-0 game seems boring, I find them rather eventful if the teams playing are good enough. There's plenty to look at from a tactical and technical level. Obviously, If we're watching 3rd division Polish soccer and you have scorelines like that...it's boring as fuck. Sometimes games are played at a high pace, there's lots of action, but the ball just doesn't go in the net. That doesn't mean the game is boring at all, if anything, it's the exact opposite. What Americans don't like is that there isn't a definite ending to games like that...there isn't a winner or a loser and with Americans, there must always be a winner and a loser, regardless of the sport. It's almost a compulsion.


----------



## Unkotare

Merchant_of_Meh said:


> What Americans don't like is that there isn't a definite ending to games like that...there isn't a winner or a loser and with Americans, there must always be a winner and a loser, regardless of the sport. It's almost a compulsion.





The reason you have a 'competition' is to determine a winner and a loser. Otherwise don't bother to play. Just watch each other practice and then exchange compliments and pats on the back.


----------



## Unkotare

Merchant_of_Meh said:


> I'm soccer through and through and have been all my life. I've played it all throughout my school years and I still play with my local club. There are millions of Americans like that who never stopped playing the game after they grew up so this whole nonsense about soccer only being a kid's game is utter bullshit. .





It is just a game for younger kids in the US. By the time they are at the Jr High/High School level almost all boys with any real athletic ability have gravitated to other sports. Not all, but for the most part. Girls are another story.


And the results are accordingly predictable.


----------



## Merchant_of_Meh

Unkotare said:


> Merchant_of_Meh said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Americans don't like is that there isn't a definite ending to games like that...there isn't a winner or a loser and with Americans, there must always be a winner and a loser, regardless of the sport. It's almost a compulsion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reason you have a 'competition' is to determine a winner and a loser. Otherwise don't bother to play. Just watch each other practice and then exchange compliments and pats on the back.
Click to expand...


There are games either so horribly contested or, in contrast, so evenly contested, that there simply doesn't deserve to be a winner or a loser based on the run of play because neither side has done enough. If that's true, then draws are exactly the right result and they make sense with soccer.


----------



## Merchant_of_Meh

Unkotare said:


> Merchant_of_Meh said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm soccer through and through and have been all my life. I've played it all throughout my school years and I still play with my local club. There are millions of Americans like that who never stopped playing the game after they grew up so this whole nonsense about soccer only being a kid's game is utter bullshit. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is just a game for younger kids in the US. By the time they are at the Jr High/High School level almost all boys with any real athletic ability have gravitated to other sports. Not all, but for the most part. Girls are another story.
> 
> 
> And the results are accordingly predictable.
Click to expand...


So if I understood this correctly, are you saying that soccer doesn't require any "real athletic ability"?....if that's where you're going with this then you obvious know even less about the sport than I thought, especially if you are looking at this from a kid's rec league perspective. Gotta take those tinted glasses off and look at it from the adult perspective. This is a far more physically demanding game that you are giving it credit for being.


----------



## Unkotare

Merchant_of_Meh said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Merchant_of_Meh said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Americans don't like is that there isn't a definite ending to games like that...there isn't a winner or a loser and with Americans, there must always be a winner and a loser, regardless of the sport. It's almost a compulsion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reason you have a 'competition' is to determine a winner and a loser. Otherwise don't bother to play. Just watch each other practice and then exchange compliments and pats on the back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are games either so horribly contested or, in contrast, so evenly contested, that there simply doesn't deserve to be a winner or a loser based on the run of play because neither side has done enough. If that's true, then draws are exactly the right result and they make sense with soccer.
Click to expand...




Bullshit. You compete to determine a winner and a loser. It says a lot about what's wrong with soccer that fans pretend to go crazy over it but don't understand the spirit of competition.


----------



## Unkotare

Merchant_of_Meh said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Merchant_of_Meh said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm soccer through and through and have been all my life. I've played it all throughout my school years and I still play with my local club. There are millions of Americans like that who never stopped playing the game after they grew up so this whole nonsense about soccer only being a kid's game is utter bullshit. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is just a game for younger kids in the US. By the time they are at the Jr High/High School level almost all boys with any real athletic ability have gravitated to other sports. Not all, but for the most part. Girls are another story.
> 
> 
> And the results are accordingly predictable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So if I understood this correctly, are you saying that soccer doesn't require any "real athletic ability"?.....
Click to expand...



You do not understand correctly. If you're going to quote my posts at least try to read them carefully.


----------



## Pop23

DGS49 said:


> But millions of Americans DO care about soccer.  Those with two-digit IQ's are crazy about American "football," but there are enclaves of soccer-mania in DC, Detroit, all over California, and elsewhere.  If you add all these communities together, you would have a fairly populous "country" where soccer is at least as popular as, say, basketball.
> 
> I have nephews and neices who were playing soccer as soon as they came out of their mother's womb.  They were competing as 4-year olds, going to camps. playing 11 months a year, in both school and traveling leagues.  With thousands of other kids doing the same thing.  Think they didn't care about soccer?
> 
> And Hockey is a different proposition altogether for unrelated reasons.  First of all, it requires a lot of money, which excludes a large portion of the population.  Second of all, it dramatically favors kids from colder climates, who are on skates at approximately the same time as they start to walk.  Kids from Atlanta who want to pursue hockey start playing when they are 12.  Kids from Edmonton are playing hockey at 5.  Which ones will end up in the NHL?



The best US athletes do not play soccer. Once they attain a certain skill level they move on to Football, basketball, hockey, baseball or other sports. 

Soccer will never be a major draw for kids with the best athletic abilities.


----------



## rightwinger

Merchant_of_Meh said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Merchant_of_Meh said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm soccer through and through and have been all my life. I've played it all throughout my school years and I still play with my local club. There are millions of Americans like that who never stopped playing the game after they grew up so this whole nonsense about soccer only being a kid's game is utter bullshit. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is just a game for younger kids in the US. By the time they are at the Jr High/High School level almost all boys with any real athletic ability have gravitated to other sports. Not all, but for the most part. Girls are another story.
> 
> 
> And the results are accordingly predictable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So if I understood this correctly, are you saying that soccer doesn't require any "real athletic ability"?....if that's where you're going with this then you obvious know even less about the sport than I thought, especially if you are looking at this from a kid's rec league perspective. Gotta take those tinted glasses off and look at it from the adult perspective. This is a far more physically demanding game that you are giving it credit for being.
Click to expand...


His point is not that soccer doesn't require real athletic ability but that the best American athletes will reach High School and decide which sport they want to concentrate on. With Americans, the best athletes will concentrate on Football, Basketball or Baseball leaving soccer for the lesser athletes


----------



## Toro

rightwinger said:


> Merchant_of_Meh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is just a game for younger kids in the US. By the time they are at the Jr High/High School level almost all boys with any real athletic ability have gravitated to other sports. Not all, but for the most part. Girls are another story.
> 
> 
> And the results are accordingly predictable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if I understood this correctly, are you saying that soccer doesn't require any "real athletic ability"?....if that's where you're going with this then you obvious know even less about the sport than I thought, especially if you are looking at this from a kid's rec league perspective. Gotta take those tinted glasses off and look at it from the adult perspective. This is a far more physically demanding game that you are giving it credit for being.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His point is not that soccer doesn't require real athletic ability but that the best American athletes will reach High School and decide which sport they want to concentrate on. With Americans, the best athletes will concentrate on Football, Basketball or Baseball leaving soccer for the lesser athletes
Click to expand...


That's true, but only to a point. 

First, Hispanics are growing faster than the population, and most of them see soccer or baseball as their #1 sport. 

Second, there are very few professional football and basketball players less than 6 feet tall. And in football, they tend to be massively built. There are many good athletes who are 5'8" and not 200+ pounds. 

Soccer is growing professionally in this country faster than most sports, albeit from a low base. This provides an option for those athletes who are too small to play in the NBA or the NFL.  MLS will never be the biggest league in America, but it might come close to the NHL one day.


----------



## Unkotare

Latino immigrants are assimilating just as previous immigrant groups have. That means that FOBs may try to bring the inexplicable hysteria over an essentially boring sport with them, but by the second or third generations the best athletes are following the same pattern as other American kids.


----------



## rightwinger

Toro said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Merchant_of_Meh said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if I understood this correctly, are you saying that soccer doesn't require any "real athletic ability"?....if that's where you're going with this then you obvious know even less about the sport than I thought, especially if you are looking at this from a kid's rec league perspective. Gotta take those tinted glasses off and look at it from the adult perspective. This is a far more physically demanding game that you are giving it credit for being.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His point is not that soccer doesn't require real athletic ability but that the best American athletes will reach High School and decide which sport they want to concentrate on. With Americans, the best athletes will concentrate on Football, Basketball or Baseball leaving soccer for the lesser athletes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's true, but only to a point.
> 
> First, Hispanics are growing faster than the population, and most of them see soccer or baseball as their #1 sport.
> 
> Second, there are very few professional football and basketball players less than 6 feet tall. And in football, they tend to be massively built. There are many good athletes who are 5'8" and not 200+ pounds.
> 
> Soccer is growing professionally in this country faster than most sports, albeit from a low base. This provides an option for those athletes who are too small to play in the NBA or the NFL.  MLS will never be the biggest league in America, but it might come close to the NHL one day.
Click to expand...


I have no grudge against soccer. If some people love it and it becomes popular, that is great. I just won't watch it


----------



## Toro

Unkotare said:


> Latino immigrants are assimilating just as previous immigrant groups have. That means that FOBs may try to bring the inexplicable hysteria over an essentially boring sport with them, but by the second or third generations the best athletes are following the same pattern as other American kids.



That hasn't happened thus far for current second and third generation Hispanics. I'm not sure why it would change in the future.  Instead, there are more Hispanics than ever before in the US national team system.


----------



## Toro

rightwinger said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> His point is not that soccer doesn't require real athletic ability but that the best American athletes will reach High School and decide which sport they want to concentrate on. With Americans, the best athletes will concentrate on Football, Basketball or Baseball leaving soccer for the lesser athletes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's true, but only to a point.
> 
> First, Hispanics are growing faster than the population, and most of them see soccer or baseball as their #1 sport.
> 
> Second, there are very few professional football and basketball players less than 6 feet tall. And in football, they tend to be massively built. There are many good athletes who are 5'8" and not 200+ pounds.
> 
> Soccer is growing professionally in this country faster than most sports, albeit from a low base. This provides an option for those athletes who are too small to play in the NBA or the NFL.  MLS will never be the biggest league in America, but it might come close to the NHL one day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have no grudge against soccer. If some people love it and it becomes popular, that is great. I just won't watch it
Click to expand...


Sports are entertainment. Whatever turns your crank.


----------



## Pop23

Toro said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Merchant_of_Meh said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if I understood this correctly, are you saying that soccer doesn't require any "real athletic ability"?....if that's where you're going with this then you obvious know even less about the sport than I thought, especially if you are looking at this from a kid's rec league perspective. Gotta take those tinted glasses off and look at it from the adult perspective. This is a far more physically demanding game that you are giving it credit for being.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His point is not that soccer doesn't require real athletic ability but that the best American athletes will reach High School and decide which sport they want to concentrate on. With Americans, the best athletes will concentrate on Football, Basketball or Baseball leaving soccer for the lesser athletes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's true, but only to a point.
> 
> First, Hispanics are growing faster than the population, and most of them see soccer or baseball as their #1 sport.
> 
> Second, there are very few professional football and basketball players less than 6 feet tall. And in football, they tend to be massively built. There are many good athletes who are 5'8" and not 200+ pounds.
> 
> Soccer is growing professionally in this country faster than most sports, albeit from a low base. This provides an option for those athletes who are too small to play in the NBA or the NFL.  MLS will never be the biggest league in America, but it might come close to the NHL one day.
Click to expand...


Fans will tend to gravitate to the sport with the larger faster athlete. Check the college level teams and note the growing number of Hispanic players.

Soccer is a great sport, don't get me wrong, but it will never exceed Football, Basketball, Baseball, Hockey, or for that matter NASCAR in the United States market. It may in a few spotty markets, but it will never match the fan appeal of the other sports.


----------



## rightwinger

Pop23 said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> His point is not that soccer doesn't require real athletic ability but that the best American athletes will reach High School and decide which sport they want to concentrate on. With Americans, the best athletes will concentrate on Football, Basketball or Baseball leaving soccer for the lesser athletes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's true, but only to a point.
> 
> First, Hispanics are growing faster than the population, and most of them see soccer or baseball as their #1 sport.
> 
> Second, there are very few professional football and basketball players less than 6 feet tall. And in football, they tend to be massively built. There are many good athletes who are 5'8" and not 200+ pounds.
> 
> Soccer is growing professionally in this country faster than most sports, albeit from a low base. This provides an option for those athletes who are too small to play in the NBA or the NFL.  MLS will never be the biggest league in America, but it might come close to the NHL one day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fans will tend to gravitate to the sport with the larger faster athlete. Check the college level teams and note the growing number of Hispanic players.
> 
> Soccer is a great sport, don't get me wrong, but it will never exceed Football, Basketball, Baseball, Hockey, or for that matter NASCAR in the United States market. It may in a few spotty markets, but it will never match the fan appeal of the other sports.
Click to expand...


Soccer can become a niche sport with rabid fans....I wish them well. If they can sell out a football stadium in the summer, that is good business

They have a problem much like Hockey. There is no national network TV package. They may have rabid fans who love the sport but not enough to boost the ratings

So Soccer can continue in the US with cable broadcasts and whatever they can draw at the gate. But it will never be a major sport in the US


----------



## Unkotare

Toro said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Latino immigrants are assimilating just as previous immigrant groups have. That means that FOBs may try to bring the inexplicable hysteria over an essentially boring sport with them, but by the second or third generations the best athletes are following the same pattern as other American kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That hasn't happened thus far for current second and third generation Hispanics. I'm not sure why it would change in the future.  Instead, there are more Hispanics than ever before in the US national team system.
Click to expand...


More and more native born Latino-Americans are showing up in all professional sports than ever before. It's a cultural issue, and Latinos are assimilating culturally just as previous immigrant groups have.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Pop23 said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> His point is not that soccer doesn't require real athletic ability but that the best American athletes will reach High School and decide which sport they want to concentrate on. With Americans, the best athletes will concentrate on Football, Basketball or Baseball leaving soccer for the lesser athletes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's true, but only to a point.
> 
> First, Hispanics are growing faster than the population, and most of them see soccer or baseball as their #1 sport.
> 
> Second, there are very few professional football and basketball players less than 6 feet tall. And in football, they tend to be massively built. There are many good athletes who are 5'8" and not 200+ pounds.
> 
> Soccer is growing professionally in this country faster than most sports, albeit from a low base. This provides an option for those athletes who are too small to play in the NBA or the NFL.  MLS will never be the biggest league in America, but it might come close to the NHL one day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fans will tend to gravitate to the sport with the larger faster athlete. Check the college level teams and note the growing number of Hispanic players.
> 
> Soccer is a great sport, don't get me wrong, but it will never exceed Football, Basketball, Baseball, Hockey, or for that matter NASCAR in the United States market. It may in a few spotty markets, but it will never match the fan appeal of the other sports.
Click to expand...


If the USA wins a World Cup, soccer will take off in the USA. The rest of the world knows that and is worried. That's why refs get paid off to f us over. All the other leagues don't want their multibillion dollar businesses cut into.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> If the USA wins a World Cup, soccer will take off in the USA. .




Nah, a temporary bump at most.


----------



## Montrovant

Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the USA wins a World Cup, soccer will take off in the USA. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, a temporary bump at most.
Click to expand...


I tend to agree with this.

I haven't seen anything to indicate soccer is on the cusp of becoming a major spectator sport in the US.


----------



## L.K.Eder

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Pop23 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's true, but only to a point.
> 
> First, Hispanics are growing faster than the population, and most of them see soccer or baseball as their #1 sport.
> 
> Second, there are very few professional football and basketball players less than 6 feet tall. And in football, they tend to be massively built. There are many good athletes who are 5'8" and not 200+ pounds.
> 
> Soccer is growing professionally in this country faster than most sports, albeit from a low base. This provides an option for those athletes who are too small to play in the NBA or the NFL.  MLS will never be the biggest league in America, but it might come close to the NHL one day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fans will tend to gravitate to the sport with the larger faster athlete. Check the college level teams and note the growing number of Hispanic players.
> 
> Soccer is a great sport, don't get me wrong, but it will never exceed Football, Basketball, Baseball, Hockey, or for that matter NASCAR in the United States market. It may in a few spotty markets, but it will never match the fan appeal of the other sports.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the USA wins a World Cup, soccer will take off in the USA. The rest of the world knows that and is worried. That's why refs get paid off to f us over. All the other leagues don't want their multibillion dollar businesses cut into.
Click to expand...




hahahaha, cute.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Montrovant said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the USA wins a World Cup, soccer will take off in the USA. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, a temporary bump at most.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I tend to agree with this.
> 
> I haven't seen anything to indicate soccer is on the cusp of becoming a major spectator sport in the US.
Click to expand...


It'll depend upon the growth of MLS by the said victory. If a great many of the stars are playing domestically then they will be just as in demand as any other athlete. I know that MLS's stated plan is to be among the best soccer leagues by 2022. Is it possible? Debatable. They don't have a major (constant) national TV contract, but they do average 18K per game and even beat the attendance figures of various leagues. None of that is to say they're not currently at niche status. But again, a mainstream breakthrough is not out of the realm of possibility.


----------



## theHawk

TheGreatGatsby said:


> If the USA wins a World Cup, soccer will take off in the USA. The rest of the world knows that and is worried. That's why refs get paid off to f us over. All the other leagues don't want their multibillion dollar businesses cut into.



If they ever win the World Cup, it will just give soccer a bump in popularity.  

The soccer people claimed Beckman playing for LA was going to make soccer "take off" in the USA....and it didn't.

The only reason soccer has any following at all in the US is the large latino population.  So give it a rest.  Maybe in 2060 or whenever latinos become the majority ethnic group in the US it will have a chance of becoming super popular.  But when that happens it won't really be "America" anymore will it?


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

theHawk said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the USA wins a World Cup, soccer will take off in the USA. The rest of the world knows that and is worried. That's why refs get paid off to f us over. All the other leagues don't want their multibillion dollar businesses cut into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If they ever win the World Cup, it will just give soccer a bump in popularity.
> 
> The soccer people claimed Beckman playing for LA was going to make soccer "take off" in the USA....and it didn't.
> 
> The only reason soccer has any following at all in the US is the large latino population.  So give it a rest.  Maybe in 2060 or whenever latinos become the majority ethnic group in the US it will have a chance of becoming super popular.  But when that happens it won't really be "America" anymore will it?
Click to expand...


MLS went from 10 teams in 2004 to 20 teams by 2015. And it's supposed to be 24 by 2020. One of those teams is expected to be in Miami; a team that Beckham will own.

The infrastructure and attendance is there. It's a matter of gaining the national TV audience though. 

And it's not just a Latino thing. Seattle averages 43K people per game.


----------



## Desperado

it can only be considered an "Embarrassment" if people actually cared about it and if it actually mattered.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Desperado said:


> it can only be considered an "Embarrassment" if people actually cared about it and if it actually mattered.



Someday, we'll look back at this type of Simon Coward and Dim Rome apathy and laugh. Golf and baseball are freaking popular in the US. Soccer is on its upward trend. Insecure people can't handle that.


----------



## Unkotare

I see...I see...great frustration in your future....


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Unkotare said:


> I see...I see...great frustration in your future....



I think you need to start a fortune cookie thread.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see...I see...great frustration in your future....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you need to start a fortune cookie thread.
Click to expand...



I think you need to accept reality.


----------



## Desperado

Are you also going to start complaining that NASCAR is more popular in the US than F1 too?


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see...I see...great frustration in your future....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you need to start a fortune cookie thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I think you need to accept reality.
Click to expand...


Oh, I accepted that you're a dick a long time ago.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you need to start a fortune cookie thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you need to accept reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, I accepted that you're a dick a long time ago.
Click to expand...




That's just super. Enjoy your boring, no-score, jog-ball then. The vast majority of Americans will NOT.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you need to accept reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I accepted that you're a dick a long time ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's just super. Enjoy your boring, no-score, jog-ball then. The vast majority of Americans will NOT.
Click to expand...


I don't even know what jog-ball is. I know you don't see fatties in soccer like other sports though. That aside, I'm not going to start trashing all the other sports. They all have their merit. People that minimize the value of soccer though aren't smart enough to appreciate the nuances of the beautiful game.


----------



## MeBelle

Unkotare said:


> Merchant_of_Meh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The reason you have a 'competition' is to determine a winner and a loser. Otherwise don't bother to play. Just watch each other practice and then exchange compliments and pats on the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are games either so horribly contested or, in contrast, so evenly contested, that there simply doesn't deserve to be a winner or a loser based on the run of play because neither side has done enough. If that's true, then draws are exactly the right result and they make sense with soccer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit. You compete to determine a winner and a loser. It says a lot about what's wrong with soccer that fans pretend to go crazy over it but don't understand the spirit of competition.
Click to expand...


What I believe he meant by this is the time limit of the game.
What the score is @ the end of the time is it!
No 10th innings or OT because of a tie.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> People that minimize the value of soccer though aren't smart enough to appreciate the nuances of the beautiful game.




The point being that most Americans don't and WON'T consider soccer "beautiful" or interesting.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> People that minimize the value of soccer though aren't smart enough to appreciate the nuances of the beautiful game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point being that most Americans don't and WON'T consider soccer "beautiful" or interesting.
Click to expand...


That's not the point. The point is that you are a hater who thinks it's somehow cool to diminish a great game.


----------



## Montrovant

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> People that minimize the value of soccer though aren't smart enough to appreciate the nuances of the beautiful game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point being that most Americans don't and WON'T consider soccer "beautiful" or interesting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's not the point. The point is that you are a hater who thinks it's somehow cool to diminish a great game.
Click to expand...


Is it being a hater if you diminish a game you don't think is great?


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Montrovant said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point being that most Americans don't and WON'T consider soccer "beautiful" or interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not the point. The point is that you are a hater who thinks it's somehow cool to diminish a great game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is it being a hater if you diminish a game you don't think is great?
Click to expand...


I give you credit for a great semantic point. But, he's a hater all the same.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> People that minimize the value of soccer though aren't smart enough to appreciate the nuances of the beautiful game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point being that most Americans don't and WON'T consider soccer "beautiful" or interesting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's not the point. .
Click to expand...




That's the entire point. Anything you imagine beyond that is merely a product of the fact that you have - for some strange reason - emotionally invested yourself in jog-ball and feel you must defend your precious one.


----------



## rightwinger

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> People that minimize the value of soccer though aren't smart enough to appreciate the nuances of the beautiful game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point being that most Americans don't and WON'T consider soccer "beautiful" or interesting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's not the point. The point is that you are a hater who thinks it's somehow cool to diminish a great game.
Click to expand...


Let Soccer stand or fail on its own merits

If it is a great game, Americans will flock to it for entertainment. As it is, Soccer sits behind Football, Baseball, Basketball, NASCAR, Golf, Tennis, UFC, Hockey in American sports


----------



## Toro

rightwinger said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point being that most Americans don't and WON'T consider soccer "beautiful" or interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not the point. The point is that you are a hater who thinks it's somehow cool to diminish a great game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let Soccer stand or fail on its own merits
> 
> If it is a great game, Americans will flock to it for entertainment. As it is, Soccer sits behind Football, Baseball, Basketball, NASCAR, Golf, Tennis, UFC, Hockey in American sports
Click to expand...


UFC?  Don't be silly. 

25 million Americans have watched a World Cup final. I'm pretty sure a UFC bout hasn't attracted 25 million Americans. 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...e-in-u-s-tv-history-draws-24-3-million/56860/


----------



## Unkotare

Toro said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's not the point. The point is that you are a hater who thinks it's somehow cool to diminish a great game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let Soccer stand or fail on its own merits
> 
> If it is a great game, Americans will flock to it for entertainment. As it is, Soccer sits behind Football, Baseball, Basketball, NASCAR, Golf, Tennis, UFC, Hockey in American sports
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> UFC?  Don't be silly.
> 
> 25 million Americans have watched a World Cup final. I'm pretty sure a UFC bout hasn't attracted 25 million Americans.
> 
> 2010 World Cup Final Is Most Watched Soccer Game in U.S. TV History, Draws 24.3 Million - Ratings | TVbytheNumbers
Click to expand...



That's like saying that diving is more popular because lots of people watch some of it when the Olympics come around every four years. On a regular basis, the UFC is viewed by far more Americans than soccer.


----------



## rightwinger

Toro said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's not the point. The point is that you are a hater who thinks it's somehow cool to diminish a great game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let Soccer stand or fail on its own merits
> 
> If it is a great game, Americans will flock to it for entertainment. As it is, Soccer sits behind Football, Baseball, Basketball, NASCAR, Golf, Tennis, UFC, Hockey in American sports
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> UFC?  Don't be silly.
> 
> 25 million Americans have watched a World Cup final. I'm pretty sure a UFC bout hasn't attracted 25 million Americans.
> 
> 2010 World Cup Final Is Most Watched Soccer Game in U.S. TV History, Draws 24.3 Million - Ratings | TVbytheNumbers
Click to expand...


The World Cup happens every four years which is about how often Americans pretend to watch soccer

I hate UFC but week in, week out it draws more interest in this country than soccer


----------



## Toro

Unkotare said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let Soccer stand or fail on its own merits
> 
> If it is a great game, Americans will flock to it for entertainment. As it is, Soccer sits behind Football, Baseball, Basketball, NASCAR, Golf, Tennis, UFC, Hockey in American sports
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UFC?  Don't be silly.
> 
> 25 million Americans have watched a World Cup final. I'm pretty sure a UFC bout hasn't attracted 25 million Americans.
> 
> 2010 World Cup Final Is Most Watched Soccer Game in U.S. TV History, Draws 24.3 Million - Ratings | TVbytheNumbers
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's like saying that diving is more popular because lots of people watch some of it when the Olympics come around every four years. On a regular basis, the UFC is viewed by far more Americans than soccer.
Click to expand...


25 million Americans viewing anything is a big deal, no matter how you spin it. 

UFC and MLS revenues are roughly the same, with UFC a bit higher. But add in the revenues generated from the English Premiership, the World Cup, the Gold Cup and the viewership on the Spanish media and soccer easily surpasses UFC.


----------



## DGS49

Small point:  Soccer (football) is NOT a "great game."

No game that prohibits the use of the players' hands can possibly be a great game.  Soccer focuses on the limbs and appendages that are LEAST capable of doing great things (because they must also transport the players during play).

A reasonably-athletic ten-year old can THROW a ball much more accurately than the best soccer player in the world can kick it.

For this reason alone, it is a stupid game.


----------



## Unkotare

Toro said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> UFC?  Don't be silly.
> 
> 25 million Americans have watched a World Cup final. I'm pretty sure a UFC bout hasn't attracted 25 million Americans.
> 
> 2010 World Cup Final Is Most Watched Soccer Game in U.S. TV History, Draws 24.3 Million - Ratings | TVbytheNumbers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's like saying that diving is more popular because lots of people watch some of it when the Olympics come around every four years. On a regular basis, the UFC is viewed by far more Americans than soccer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 25 million Americans viewing anything is a big deal, no matter how you spin it.
> 
> UFC and MLS revenues are roughly the same, with UFC a bit higher. But add in the revenues generated from the English Premiership, the World Cup, the Gold Cup and the viewership on the Spanish media and soccer easily surpasses UFC.
Click to expand...




Ok, are we adding in viewership of UFC, K-1, etc. events that take place in Japan?


----------



## Toro

Unkotare said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's like saying that diving is more popular because lots of people watch some of it when the Olympics come around every four years. On a regular basis, the UFC is viewed by far more Americans than soccer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 25 million Americans viewing anything is a big deal, no matter how you spin it.
> 
> UFC and MLS revenues are roughly the same, with UFC a bit higher. But add in the revenues generated from the English Premiership, the World Cup, the Gold Cup and the viewership on the Spanish media and soccer easily surpasses UFC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, are we adding in viewership of UFC, K-1, etc. events that take place in Japan?
Click to expand...


Of course. If we are talking about the popularity of a sport, why would we limit to what happens within the borders. There isn't an F1 race in the US. Do we then conclude there are no F1 fans too?

Remember, American professional soccer isn't tier 1. When big teams like Real Madrid and Manchester United play here, they draw crowds of 60,00-80,000. 

UFC isn't more popular than soccer, but if you want to include UFC into a broader category of "fighting" that would include boxing and even WWE, then fighting is more popular than soccer.


----------



## Unkotare

Toro said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 25 million Americans viewing anything is a big deal, no matter how you spin it.
> 
> UFC and MLS revenues are roughly the same, with UFC a bit higher. But add in the revenues generated from the English Premiership, the World Cup, the Gold Cup and the viewership on the Spanish media and soccer easily surpasses UFC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, are we adding in viewership of UFC, K-1, etc. events that take place in Japan?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course. If we are talking about the popularity of a sport, why would we limit to what happens within the borders. There isn't an F1 race in the US. Do we then conclude there are no F1 fans too?
> 
> Remember, American professional soccer isn't tier 1. When big teams like Real Madrid and Manchester United play here, they draw crowds of 60,00-80,000.
> 
> UFC isn't more popular than soccer, but if you want to include UFC into a broader category of "fighting" that would include boxing and even WWE, then fighting is more popular than soccer.
Click to expand...



You can't include WWE because it's not real. That would be like including Jet Li movies. In any case, the discussion was about soccer's lack of popularity in the US, among Americans.


----------



## Toro

Unkotare said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, are we adding in viewership of UFC, K-1, etc. events that take place in Japan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course. If we are talking about the popularity of a sport, why would we limit to what happens within the borders. There isn't an F1 race in the US. Do we then conclude there are no F1 fans too?
> 
> Remember, American professional soccer isn't tier 1. When big teams like Real Madrid and Manchester United play here, they draw crowds of 60,00-80,000.
> 
> UFC isn't more popular than soccer, but if you want to include UFC into a broader category of "fighting" that would include boxing and even WWE, then fighting is more popular than soccer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You can't include WWE because it's not real. That would be like including Jet Li movies. In any case, the discussion was about soccer's lack of popularity in the US, among Americans.
Click to expand...


And that popularity is growing. World Cup rights went for $425 million for two tournaments. EPL rights were sold to NBC for $100 million. That's serious coin. Media companies aren't stupid. They wouldn't be paying that if it weren't growing.


----------



## Unkotare

"Growing" is a relative term.


----------



## thanatos144

DGS49 said:


> Who did we lose to last week?  Costa Fucking Rica, for God's sake?  You gotta be shittin' me.
> 
> With gazillions of American kids now playing football (the game we perversely call, "Soccer") and with even more promising to play "soccer" in the future - what with the concussion paranoia - when will we ever be able to field a competent "soccer" team internationally?
> 
> Unfortunately, never.
> 
> Our approach to this sport (and to all sports) puts us at an insurmountable disadvantage against international competition.  The same is true in tennis, and would be true in basketball, but for our large population of genetically advantaged, so-called "African-Americans."  The unfortunate fact is that a gifted European basketball player has a better chance of making it in the NBA than a gifted "white" kid from Boston.
> 
> The reason:  Basically it is interscholastic sports.  The prominence and dominance of interscholastic sports in this country, from K through Kollege, dictates that all meaningful competition in most sports is basically, BY AGE GROUP.  This is a stupid way to educate children, and a disastrous way to develop top athletic talent.
> 
> In more "advanced" countries, they DO NOT HAVE INTERSCHOLASTIC SPORTS(!).  There is no High School basketball team, football team, or any other team.  Their schools are inexplicably focused on educating children and young adults, and do not provide the untold advantages of these athletic extracurricular activities.
> 
> In Europe and elsewhere, sports are organized at the "club" and community level, independent of the schools, and independent of the perverse paradigm that limits competition to kids of approximately the same age.  If you are an outstanding player, in any sport, you are competing against other players AT THE SAME SKILL LEVEL, regardless of age.  Dirk Nowitski was playing basketball against adults when he was a teenager, as Rafa Nadal was doing in tennis, and all the European football players were doing in football.  Thus the most outstanding athletes are progressing as rapidly as possible, and are not constrained by forced competition with their mediocre contemporaries.
> 
> We have a hint of this in the U.S., with AAU basketball, club tennis, "traveling" "soccer," and Nick Bolletieri's tennis academy, but these are a mere shadow of the opportunities that exist for outstanding athletes outside the U.S.  And they are generally only available to kids from families with significant resources, thus limiting the "pool."
> 
> To be clear, I am not a fan of "soccer."  I think it is perverse and boring.  But it is embarrassing to see our national football team exchanging High Fives when we happen to beat a national team from Pago Pago, or some other fucking outpost of a hell-hole.  I also wouldn't mind having another World Number One in Men's tennis, the lack of which is another embarrassment.  (Parenthetically, the reason why Serena Williams developed so significantly better than anyone else was that her father completely rejected the dictates of the American tennis community, and brought his daughters along ACCORDING TO their CAPABILITIES as they progressed, and not according to their age).
> 
> I have seen the enemy, and it is us.



Its soccer  not a real sport.


----------



## Toro

Unkotare said:


> "Growing" is a relative term.



20 years ago, World Cup rights went for $20-$25 million, and EPL went for a few million, not to mention there wasn't even a professional league I'm the US. 

So the relative term is "significantly."


----------



## Unkotare

And in another 20 years, soccer will still be at the bottom of that list.


----------



## Toro

Unkotare said:


> And in another 20 years, soccer will still be at the bottom of that list.



Soccer will never challenge football, baseball or basketball. But it might challenge hockey.


----------



## thanatos144

Toro said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> And in another 20 years, soccer will still be at the bottom of that list.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soccer will never challenge football, baseball or basketball. But it might challenge hockey.
Click to expand...


only if you dont like sports.


----------



## Montrovant

Toro said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> And in another 20 years, soccer will still be at the bottom of that list.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soccer will never challenge football, baseball or basketball. But it might challenge hockey.
Click to expand...


It makes me sad that I think that could be true.

Fuck you, non-hockey fans!


----------



## Montrovant

Toro said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> UFC?  Don't be silly.
> 
> 25 million Americans have watched a World Cup final. I'm pretty sure a UFC bout hasn't attracted 25 million Americans.
> 
> 2010 World Cup Final Is Most Watched Soccer Game in U.S. TV History, Draws 24.3 Million - Ratings | TVbytheNumbers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's like saying that diving is more popular because lots of people watch some of it when the Olympics come around every four years. On a regular basis, the UFC is viewed by far more Americans than soccer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 25 million Americans viewing anything is a big deal, no matter how you spin it.
> 
> UFC and MLS revenues are roughly the same, with UFC a bit higher. But add in the revenues generated from the English Premiership, the World Cup, the Gold Cup and the viewership on the Spanish media and soccer easily surpasses UFC.
Click to expand...


Wait, if you add in revenue from other leagues in the sport, it's greater than the revenue from one league of another sport?  That's an odd comparison.

More, the big UFC fights are shown on pay-per-view.  That is bound to lower viewership numbers.  (I really wish they were on regular broadcast!)

And while soccer has been a huge sport internationally for years and years and had a long time to build a fanbase in the US, MMA is a relatively new sport which has gone from fringe contest to a fairly major spectator sport.

So, while there certainly may be more soccer fans than MMA fans in the US, it's not exactly a strong bit of evidence for soccer becoming a big sport on the level of the big 4 in the US.


----------



## Toro

Montrovant said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's like saying that diving is more popular because lots of people watch some of it when the Olympics come around every four years. On a regular basis, the UFC is viewed by far more Americans than soccer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 25 million Americans viewing anything is a big deal, no matter how you spin it.
> 
> UFC and MLS revenues are roughly the same, with UFC a bit higher. But add in the revenues generated from the English Premiership, the World Cup, the Gold Cup and the viewership on the Spanish media and soccer easily surpasses UFC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wait, if you add in revenue from other leagues in the sport, it's greater than the revenue from one league of another sport?  That's an odd comparison.
> 
> More, the big UFC fights are shown on pay-per-view.  That is bound to lower viewership numbers.  (I really wish they were on regular broadcast!)
> 
> And while soccer has been a huge sport internationally for years and years and had a long time to build a fanbase in the US, MMA is a relatively new sport which has gone from fringe contest to a fairly major spectator sport.
> 
> So, while there certainly may be more soccer fans than MMA fans in the US, it's not exactly a strong bit of evidence for soccer becoming a big sport on the level of the big 4 in the US.
Click to expand...


It's not a big 4 sport. But, lets face it, neither is hockey. Hockey is a regional, almost cult like sport in the US with a small but passionately dedicated fan base. The NHL was paying the networks for exposure a decade ago. It's not a national sport in the same sense as the other three. And I love hockey. I'm Canadian!

MMA is filling a vacuum that exists from the collapse of boxing and peaking of WWE. Boxing used to be huge, with fights being global events. UFC will never be that because its too violent. But governance of boxing became a farce in this country. UFC toned down its act and filled that void.


----------



## Unkotare

Toro said:


> MMA is filling a vacuum that exists from the collapse of boxing and peaking of WWE. Boxing used to be huge, with fights being global events. UFC will never be that because its too violent. But governance of boxing became a farce in this country. UFC toned down its act and filled that void.




You really shouldn't even  be including WWE in any such discussion.


----------



## Unkotare

Toro said:


> MMA is filling a vacuum that exists from the collapse of boxing .





It could be argued that MMA didn't fill a vacuum so much as elbow out (so to speak) boxing to a significant degree.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

DGS49 said:


> Small point:  Soccer (football) is NOT a "great game."
> 
> No game that prohibits the use of the players' hands can possibly be a great game.  Soccer focuses on the limbs and appendages that are LEAST capable of doing great things (because they must also transport the players during play).
> 
> A reasonably-athletic ten-year old can THROW a ball much more accurately than the best soccer player in the world can kick it.
> 
> For this reason alone, it is a stupid game.



THIS is a perfect example of how anti-soccer propaganda in the sports media works upon the typical American dumb ass. He's just parroting idiots like Jim Rome. Soccer is a game of great skill, fitness and strategy. Most the out of shape gimps who criticize soccer should go try playing a serious pick-up game of soccer sometime. Then they'll find a real respect for the game when their gasping on fumes.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Small point:  Soccer (football) is NOT a "great game."
> 
> No game that prohibits the use of the players' hands can possibly be a great game.  Soccer focuses on the limbs and appendages that are LEAST capable of doing great things (because they must also transport the players during play).
> 
> A reasonably-athletic ten-year old can THROW a ball much more accurately than the best soccer player in the world can kick it.
> 
> For this reason alone, it is a stupid game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THIS is a perfect example of how anti-soccer propaganda in the sports media works upon the typical American dumb ass. He's just parroting idiots like Jim Rome. Soccer is a game of great skill, fitness and strategy. Most the out of shape gimps who criticize soccer should go try playing a serious pick-up game of soccer sometime. Then they'll find a real respect for the game when their gasping on fumes.
Click to expand...



Or, they could go take an aerobics class.


----------



## rightwinger

TheGreatGatsby said:


> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Small point:  Soccer (football) is NOT a "great game."
> 
> No game that prohibits the use of the players' hands can possibly be a great game.  Soccer focuses on the limbs and appendages that are LEAST capable of doing great things (because they must also transport the players during play).
> 
> A reasonably-athletic ten-year old can THROW a ball much more accurately than the best soccer player in the world can kick it.
> 
> For this reason alone, it is a stupid game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THIS is a perfect example of how anti-soccer propaganda in the sports media works upon the typical American dumb ass. He's just parroting idiots like Jim Rome. Soccer is a game of great skill, fitness and strategy. Most the out of shape gimps who criticize soccer should go try playing a serious pick-up game of soccer sometime. Then they'll find a real respect for the game when their gasping on fumes.
Click to expand...


The media has tried to hype soccer and it hasn't caught on. It is not the medias fault. They had full World Cup coverage and the US gave a collective yawn. 

It's just not our sport


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Unkotare said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let Soccer stand or fail on its own merits
> 
> If it is a great game, Americans will flock to it for entertainment. As it is, Soccer sits behind Football, Baseball, Basketball, NASCAR, Golf, Tennis, UFC, Hockey in American sports
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UFC?  Don't be silly.
> 
> 25 million Americans have watched a World Cup final. I'm pretty sure a UFC bout hasn't attracted 25 million Americans.
> 
> 2010 World Cup Final Is Most Watched Soccer Game in U.S. TV History, Draws 24.3 Million - Ratings | TVbytheNumbers
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's like saying that diving is more popular because lots of people watch some of it when the Olympics come around every four years. On a regular basis, the UFC is viewed by far more Americans than soccer.
Click to expand...


Probably. But, then what's ticket, merchandise, food sales differences between the sports? The average MLS attendance is 18,000. What's the average UFC attendance? 600? And although the World Cup.

And Fox/Telemundo just spent a billion dollars for the rights to broadcast the 2018, 2022 World Cups. No events in UFC even coming close to that kind of cheese.


----------



## Unkotare

It's kind of like the Metric System. People keep trying to foist in on Americans by lamenting, "Aw, but everyone else likes it!" These people keep forgetting that approach doesn't work well with most Americans.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> And Fox/Telemundo just spent a billion dollars for the rights to broadcast the 2018, 2022 World Cups. No events in UFC even coming close to that kind of cheese.




You seem to want to compare it with the Olympics, not with popular spectator sports in America.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

rightwinger said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Small point:  Soccer (football) is NOT a "great game."
> 
> No game that prohibits the use of the players' hands can possibly be a great game.  Soccer focuses on the limbs and appendages that are LEAST capable of doing great things (because they must also transport the players during play).
> 
> A reasonably-athletic ten-year old can THROW a ball much more accurately than the best soccer player in the world can kick it.
> 
> For this reason alone, it is a stupid game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THIS is a perfect example of how anti-soccer propaganda in the sports media works upon the typical American dumb ass. He's just parroting idiots like Jim Rome. Soccer is a game of great skill, fitness and strategy. Most the out of shape gimps who criticize soccer should go try playing a serious pick-up game of soccer sometime. Then they'll find a real respect for the game when their gasping on fumes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The media has tried to hype soccer and it hasn't caught on. It is not the medias fault. They had full World Cup coverage and the US gave a collective yawn.
> 
> It's just not our sport
Click to expand...


Sports are generational. At one time, baseball was the biggest sport in America. In the 80's and 90's, basketball was king. Now, football has taken over.

Will hockey and soccer ever be king? Not any time soon. But, they're both capable of making serious in roads. More and more kids are playing youth soccer. And they have US Soccer, EPL and MLS, NWSL on TV while they do so. These things were not so even a generation ago.

I follow NBA and NFL. But we take it for granted that they'll always be top of the heap. They won't. There will always be shifts. The question is not if, but how long.


----------



## rightwinger

TheGreatGatsby said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> THIS is a perfect example of how anti-soccer propaganda in the sports media works upon the typical American dumb ass. He's just parroting idiots like Jim Rome. Soccer is a game of great skill, fitness and strategy. Most the out of shape gimps who criticize soccer should go try playing a serious pick-up game of soccer sometime. Then they'll find a real respect for the game when their gasping on fumes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The media has tried to hype soccer and it hasn't caught on. It is not the medias fault. They had full World Cup coverage and the US gave a collective yawn.
> 
> It's just not our sport
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sports are generational. At one time, baseball was the biggest sport in America. In the 80's and 90's, basketball was king. Now, football has taken over.
> 
> Will hockey and soccer ever be king? Not any time soon. But, they're both capable of making serious in roads. More and more kids are playing youth soccer. And they have US Soccer, EPL and MLS, NWSL on TV while they do so. These things were not so even a generation ago.
> 
> I follow NBA and NFL. But we take it for granted that they'll always be top of the heap. They won't. There will always be shifts. The question is not if, but how long.
Click to expand...


I heard the same arguments in the 70s. North American Soccer League, Pele was going to transform the sports. Millions of kids were in soccer leagues and would be lifelong fans. 

It never happened

I heard the same thing when the US Women's Soccer team won the World Cup. Millions of little girls were soccer fans. Women's soccer was going to take off

It never happened


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

rightwinger said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The media has tried to hype soccer and it hasn't caught on. It is not the medias fault. They had full World Cup coverage and the US gave a collective yawn.
> 
> It's just not our sport
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sports are generational. At one time, baseball was the biggest sport in America. In the 80's and 90's, basketball was king. Now, football has taken over.
> 
> Will hockey and soccer ever be king? Not any time soon. But, they're both capable of making serious in roads. More and more kids are playing youth soccer. And they have US Soccer, EPL and MLS, NWSL on TV while they do so. These things were not so even a generation ago.
> 
> I follow NBA and NFL. But we take it for granted that they'll always be top of the heap. They won't. There will always be shifts. The question is not if, but how long.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I heard the same arguments in the 70s. North American Soccer League, Pele was going to transform the sports. Millions of kids were in soccer leagues and would be lifelong fans.
> 
> It never happened
> 
> I heard the same thing when the US Women's Soccer team won the World Cup. Millions of little girls were soccer fans. Women's soccer was going to take off
> 
> It never happened
Click to expand...


Throwing women's soccer into the equation is like me bringing up WNBA or the lingirie bowl. It just doesn't belong.

And perhaps the arguments you heard in the 70s rang true. The US made the world cup by 90 and hosted it by 94. It's been growing ever since.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Throwing women's soccer into the equation is like me bringing up WNBA or the lingirie bowl. It just doesn't belong..





Just the opposite. Women's soccer is the only place your little dream has a chance. American women are great at soccer. And why not? It's a sport most suited for women and children.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Throwing women's soccer into the equation is like me bringing up WNBA or the lingirie bowl. It just doesn't belong..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just the opposite. Women's soccer is the only place your little dream has a chance. American women are great at soccer. And why not? It's a sport most suited for women and children.
Click to expand...


I don't have any disrespect for women's soccer; well no more disrespect than any other women's sport; but it's not the best of the best. I watch sports to watch the best players. Watching women's soccer is akin to watching any other amateur event. Even if it takes off, it won't be a fulfillment of any 'little dream' I have. 

And your logic is whack anyways. The women's side has 'accomplished' way more than the men's side and is nowhere near as popular; pretty much because people are generally of the same mindset as myself. So, I'll thank you not to throw out your illogical points.


----------



## Montrovant

Unkotare said:


> It's kind of like the Metric System. People keep trying to foist in on Americans by lamenting, "Aw, but everyone else likes it!" These people keep forgetting that approach doesn't work well with most Americans.



Except the metric system actually makes sense.......


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> The women's side has 'accomplished' way more than the men's side and is nowhere near as popular




This should give you a clue about the fortunes of men's soccer as well.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Montrovant said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's kind of like the Metric System. People keep trying to foist in on Americans by lamenting, "Aw, but everyone else likes it!" These people keep forgetting that approach doesn't work well with most Americans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except the metric system actually makes sense.......
Click to expand...


All of the sports are elemental. Soccer arguably takes the most skill and fitness. So, I don't think you have any sort of 'sense' argument. 



Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> The women's side has 'accomplished' way more than the men's side and is nowhere near as popular
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This should give you a clue about the fortunes of men's soccer as well.
Click to expand...


I'm sure you made some sort of illogical leap in your head to come up to this flawed conclusion; but I'm not going to bother guessing.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Soccer arguably takes the most skill and fitness.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> I'm sure you made some sort of illogical leap in your head to come up to this flawed conclusion; but I'm not going to bother guessing.





Logic that escapes YOU is not illogical. You are burdened with limitations.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Soccer arguably takes the most skill and fitness.
Click to expand...


You are utterly foolish. I play pick-up basketball games all the time and am relatively fine fitness wise. The last time, I played a pick-up game of soccer on a full field, it was way more of a challenge. The two aren't even comparable. Hence, why you never see fat soccer players.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> The last time, I played a pick-up game of soccer on a full field, it was way more of a challenge.






...for you.




Talk about illogical....


----------



## Montrovant

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's kind of like the Metric System. People keep trying to foist in on Americans by lamenting, "Aw, but everyone else likes it!" These people keep forgetting that approach doesn't work well with most Americans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except the metric system actually makes sense.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All of the sports are elemental. Soccer arguably takes the most skill and fitness. So, I don't think you have any sort of 'sense' argument.
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> The women's side has 'accomplished' way more than the men's side and is nowhere near as popular
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This should give you a clue about the fortunes of men's soccer as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm sure you made some sort of illogical leap in your head to come up to this flawed conclusion; but I'm not going to bother guessing.
Click to expand...


Sheesh!  Just laugh at my funny.


----------



## Montrovant

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Soccer arguably takes the most skill and fitness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are utterly foolish. I play pick-up basketball games all the time and am relatively fine fitness wise. The last time, I played a pick-up game of soccer on a full field, it was way more of a challenge. The two aren't even comparable. Hence, why you never see fat soccer players.
Click to expand...


I'm not a fan of basketball, but I don't recall there being a lot of fat NBA players....

Now, if you want to talk about baseball, some of the pitchers have been fairly chunky.  And of course, NFL lineman are pretty damn large. 

I think, however, you may be mistaking endurance as the only form of fitness and skill.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last time, I played a pick-up game of soccer on a full field, it was way more of a challenge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...for you.
> 
> Talk about illogical....
Click to expand...


Yea and everyone else who lives in reality too.


----------



## Montrovant

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last time, I played a pick-up game of soccer on a full field, it was way more of a challenge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...for you.
> 
> Talk about illogical....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yea and everyone else who lives in reality too.
Click to expand...


Different people have different skills.  Soccer is not going to be the most challenging sport for everyone.

How much you play and the competition are also going to play a factor in the difficulty.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last time, I played a pick-up game of soccer on a full field, it was way more of a challenge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...for you.
> 
> Talk about illogical....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yea and everyone else who lives in reality too.
Click to expand...




And you take one step further away from logic...


----------



## Unkotare

Montrovant said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...for you.
> 
> Talk about illogical....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea and everyone else who lives in reality too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Different people have different skills.  Soccer is not going to be the most challenging sport for everyone.
> 
> How much you play and the competition are also going to play a factor in the difficulty.
Click to expand...



Exactly. He shouldn't need this explained to him.


----------



## rightwinger

TheGreatGatsby said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sports are generational. At one time, baseball was the biggest sport in America. In the 80's and 90's, basketball was king. Now, football has taken over.
> 
> Will hockey and soccer ever be king? Not any time soon. But, they're both capable of making serious in roads. More and more kids are playing youth soccer. And they have US Soccer, EPL and MLS, NWSL on TV while they do so. These things were not so even a generation ago.
> 
> I follow NBA and NFL. But we take it for granted that they'll always be top of the heap. They won't. There will always be shifts. The question is not if, but how long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I heard the same arguments in the 70s. North American Soccer League, Pele was going to transform the sports. Millions of kids were in soccer leagues and would be lifelong fans.
> 
> It never happened
> 
> I heard the same thing when the US Women's Soccer team won the World Cup. Millions of little girls were soccer fans. Women's soccer was going to take off
> 
> It never happened
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Throwing women's soccer into the equation is like me bringing up WNBA or the lingirie bowl. It just doesn't belong.
> 
> And perhaps the arguments you heard in the 70s rang true. The US made the world cup by 90 and hosted it by 94. It's been growing ever since.
Click to expand...


No it hasn't


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Montrovant said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...for you.
> 
> Talk about illogical....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea and everyone else who lives in reality too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Different people have different skills.  Soccer is not going to be the most challenging sport for everyone.
> 
> How much you play and the competition are also going to play a factor in the difficulty.
Click to expand...


I was talking from a fitness perspective, not a skill perspective. Skills are mainly learned anyways.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yea and everyone else who lives in reality too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Different people have different skills.  Soccer is not going to be the most challenging sport for everyone.
> 
> How much you play and the competition are also going to play a factor in the difficulty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was talking from a fitness perspective, not a skill perspective. Skills are mainly learned anyways.
Click to expand...


That's why the last WCQ got the highest WCQ rating ever?


----------



## Unkotare

Montrovant said:


> I think, however, you may be mistaking endurance as the only form of fitness and skill.




I'd bet good money that any decent Div.1 lineman, no matter how large, could outrun our soccer-obsessed friend there over 10 yards. Then if he tried to line up against him in a game, well, no need to go into all the macabre details of what would happen to him. 

And while he might be oh-so-proud of himself for jogging around after a ball for an hour and a half, plunk him in a pool to swim 1500m competitively and I have no doubt he'd be reassessing his "fitness" level before he got halfway through.

Put him on a wrestling mat with even a good high school wrestler and he'd be gasping desperately for air in under three minutes. 

Etc., etc. ... you get the idea.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Unkotare said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think, however, you may be mistaking endurance as the only form of fitness and skill.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd bet good money that any decent Div.1 lineman, no matter how large, could outrun our soccer-obsessed friend there over 10 yards. Then if he tried to line up against him in a game, well, no need to go into all the macabre details of what would happen to him.
> 
> And while he might be oh-so-proud of himself for jogging around after a ball for an hour and a half, plunk him in a pool to swim 1500m competitively and I have no doubt he'd be reassessing his "fitness" level before he got halfway through.
> 
> Put him on a wrestling mat with even a good high school wrestler and he'd be gasping desperately for air in under three minutes.
> 
> Etc., etc. ... you get the idea.
Click to expand...


You are seriously blabbering. And plenty of division one linemen are total fat asses, so you know.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think, however, you may be mistaking endurance as the only form of fitness and skill.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd bet good money that any decent Div.1 lineman, no matter how large, could outrun our soccer-obsessed friend there over 10 yards. Then if he tried to line up against him in a game, well, no need to go into all the macabre details of what would happen to him.
> 
> And while he might be oh-so-proud of himself for jogging around after a ball for an hour and a half, plunk him in a pool to swim 1500m competitively and I have no doubt he'd be reassessing his "fitness" level before he got halfway through.
> 
> Put him on a wrestling mat with even a good high school wrestler and he'd be gasping desperately for air in under three minutes.
> 
> Etc., etc. ... you get the idea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are seriously blabbering. And plenty of division one linemen are total fat asses, so you know.
Click to expand...



Fat ass or not, over ten yards they'd smoke you. If you are "seriously" honest with yourself you'll admit that all three examples I provided (and of course there are many more) are true.


----------



## Immanuel

TheGreatGatsby said:


> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Small point:  Soccer (football) is NOT a "great game."
> 
> No game that prohibits the use of the players' hands can possibly be a great game.  Soccer focuses on the limbs and appendages that are LEAST capable of doing great things (because they must also transport the players during play).
> 
> A reasonably-athletic ten-year old can THROW a ball much more accurately than the best soccer player in the world can kick it.
> 
> For this reason alone, it is a stupid game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THIS is a perfect example of how anti-soccer propaganda in the sports media works upon the typical American dumb ass. He's just parroting idiots like Jim Rome. Soccer is a game of great skill, fitness and strategy. Most the out of shape gimps who criticize soccer should go try playing a serious pick-up game of soccer sometime. Then they'll find a real respect for the game when their gasping on fumes.
Click to expand...


That does not change the fact that Soccer is an extremely boring "spectator sport".  There are a lot of sports that are a lot of fun to play but boring as hell to watch and soccer happens to be one of those.  Ninety minutes of running the ball up and down the field with almost no scoring at all, and that is if there is even a goal scored.  If you are not playing, you may as well be napping.  If you really are interested, you can catch the 3.6 seconds of scoring in the game on ESPN's Sportscenter.

I will grant you that Soccer is a hell of a lot of fun to play, but it simply is nothing to watch. 

Immie


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd bet good money that any decent Div.1 lineman, no matter how large, could outrun our soccer-obsessed friend there over 10 yards. Then if he tried to line up against him in a game, well, no need to go into all the macabre details of what would happen to him.
> 
> And while he might be oh-so-proud of himself for jogging around after a ball for an hour and a half, plunk him in a pool to swim 1500m competitively and I have no doubt he'd be reassessing his "fitness" level before he got halfway through.
> 
> Put him on a wrestling mat with even a good high school wrestler and he'd be gasping desperately for air in under three minutes.
> 
> Etc., etc. ... you get the idea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are seriously blabbering. And plenty of division one linemen are total fat asses, so you know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Fat ass or not, over ten yards they'd smoke you. If you are "seriously" honest with yourself you'll admit that all three examples I provided (and of course there are many more) are true.
Click to expand...


Yea, cos you know the first thing about my fitness level.....You should try a little more of that serious honesty that you're promoting.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Immanuel said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Small point:  Soccer (football) is NOT a "great game."
> 
> No game that prohibits the use of the players' hands can possibly be a great game.  Soccer focuses on the limbs and appendages that are LEAST capable of doing great things (because they must also transport the players during play).
> 
> A reasonably-athletic ten-year old can THROW a ball much more accurately than the best soccer player in the world can kick it.
> 
> For this reason alone, it is a stupid game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THIS is a perfect example of how anti-soccer propaganda in the sports media works upon the typical American dumb ass. He's just parroting idiots like Jim Rome. Soccer is a game of great skill, fitness and strategy. Most the out of shape gimps who criticize soccer should go try playing a serious pick-up game of soccer sometime. Then they'll find a real respect for the game when their gasping on fumes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That does not change the fact that Soccer is an extremely boring "spectator sport".  There are a lot of sports that are a lot of fun to play but boring as hell to watch and soccer happens to be one of those.  Ninety minutes of running the ball up and down the field with almost no scoring at all, and that is if there is even a goal scored.  If you are not playing, you may as well be napping.  If you really are interested, you can catch the 3.6 seconds of scoring in the game on ESPN's Sportscenter.
> 
> I will grant you that Soccer is a hell of a lot of fun to play, but it simply is nothing to watch.
> 
> Immie
Click to expand...


Poll after poll has shown that people like watching a good pitching dual to a homerun fest. You don't think that throwing a ball through hoop doesn't get monotonous? Any serious sports fan will tell you that it's about the intricacies of any sport that make it truly mesmerizing. 

But, sure; if we're talking about games for the typical unenlightened dumbass, maybe soccer is not going to be the sport of choice. Listen to the differences in soccer anouncers and basketball announcers. It's laughable, the chasm of sophistication.


----------



## Pop23

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> THIS is a perfect example of how anti-soccer propaganda in the sports media works upon the typical American dumb ass. He's just parroting idiots like Jim Rome. Soccer is a game of great skill, fitness and strategy. Most the out of shape gimps who criticize soccer should go try playing a serious pick-up game of soccer sometime. Then they'll find a real respect for the game when their gasping on fumes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That does not change the fact that Soccer is an extremely boring "spectator sport".  There are a lot of sports that are a lot of fun to play but boring as hell to watch and soccer happens to be one of those.  Ninety minutes of running the ball up and down the field with almost no scoring at all, and that is if there is even a goal scored.  If you are not playing, you may as well be napping.  If you really are interested, you can catch the 3.6 seconds of scoring in the game on ESPN's Sportscenter.
> 
> I will grant you that Soccer is a hell of a lot of fun to play, but it simply is nothing to watch.
> 
> Immie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Poll after poll has shown that people like watching a good pitching dual to a homerun fest. You don't think that throwing a ball through hoop doesn't get monotonous? Any serious sports fan will tell you that it's about the intricacies of any sport that make it truly mesmerizing.
> 
> But, sure; if we're talking about games for the typical unenlightened dumbass, maybe soccer is not going to be the sport of choice. Listen to the differences in soccer anouncers and basketball announcers. It's laughable, the chasm of sophistication.
Click to expand...


Chess anyone?


----------



## Toro

rightwinger said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The media has tried to hype soccer and it hasn't caught on. It is not the medias fault. They had full World Cup coverage and the US gave a collective yawn.
> 
> It's just not our sport
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sports are generational. At one time, baseball was the biggest sport in America. In the 80's and 90's, basketball was king. Now, football has taken over.
> 
> Will hockey and soccer ever be king? Not any time soon. But, they're both capable of making serious in roads. More and more kids are playing youth soccer. And they have US Soccer, EPL and MLS, NWSL on TV while they do so. These things were not so even a generation ago.
> 
> I follow NBA and NFL. But we take it for granted that they'll always be top of the heap. They won't. There will always be shifts. The question is not if, but how long.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I heard the same arguments in the 70s. North American Soccer League, Pele was going to transform the sports. Millions of kids were in soccer leagues and would be lifelong fans.
> 
> It never happened
> 
> I heard the same thing when the US Women's Soccer team won the World Cup. Millions of little girls were soccer fans. Women's soccer was going to take off
> 
> It never happened
Click to expand...


It is happening right now. 

I'm not arguing whether or not you or anyone likes the sport. That's a personal preference and I totally respect that.  I'm just looking at the raw numbers. Exactly $0 was spent on full-time professional soccer in the US a generation ago. Today MLS generates close to $400 million a year. The World Cup was sold for $425 million. NBC spent $100 million to start broadcasting English Premiership matches over the next few years. Think about that. Except for the Olympics, I can't think of any sporting event outside of the United States for which a US network shelled out that much cash for the broadcast rights. That's serious money for something that apparently isn't catching on.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are seriously blabbering. And plenty of division one linemen are total fat asses, so you know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fat ass or not, over ten yards they'd smoke you. If you are "seriously" honest with yourself you'll admit that all three examples I provided (and of course there are many more) are true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yea, cos you know the first thing about my fitness level.....
Click to expand...




I know the first thing about the fitness level of highly trained athletes. I'm very confident about my estimation.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Listen to the differences in soccer anouncers and basketball announcers. It's laughable, the chasm of sophistication.





"Sophistication"  


What a pretentious douchebag.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Listen to the differences in soccer anouncers and basketball announcers. It's laughable, the chasm of sophistication.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Sophistication"
> 
> What a pretentious douchebag.
Click to expand...


You're the last person that should be objecting to pretension.



Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fat ass or not, over ten yards they'd smoke you. If you are "seriously" honest with yourself you'll admit that all three examples I provided (and of course there are many more) are true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, cos you know the first thing about my fitness level.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know the first thing about the fitness level of highly trained athletes. I'm very confident about my estimation.
Click to expand...


You shouldn't be. Most 270 lb plus linemen have no wheels to speak of; DUMB ASS.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Toro said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sports are generational. At one time, baseball was the biggest sport in America. In the 80's and 90's, basketball was king. Now, football has taken over.
> 
> Will hockey and soccer ever be king? Not any time soon. But, they're both capable of making serious in roads. More and more kids are playing youth soccer. And they have US Soccer, EPL and MLS, NWSL on TV while they do so. These things were not so even a generation ago.
> 
> I follow NBA and NFL. But we take it for granted that they'll always be top of the heap. They won't. There will always be shifts. The question is not if, but how long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I heard the same arguments in the 70s. North American Soccer League, Pele was going to transform the sports. Millions of kids were in soccer leagues and would be lifelong fans.
> 
> It never happened
> 
> I heard the same thing when the US Women's Soccer team won the World Cup. Millions of little girls were soccer fans. Women's soccer was going to take off
> 
> It never happened
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is happening right now.
> 
> I'm not arguing whether or not you or anyone likes the sport. That's a personal preference and I totally respect that.  I'm just looking at the raw numbers. Exactly $0 was spent on full-time professional soccer in the US a generation ago. Today MLS generates close to $400 million a year. The World Cup was sold for $425 million. NBC spent $100 million to start broadcasting English Premiership matches over the next few years. Think about that. Except for the Olympics, I can't think of any sporting event outside of the United States for which a US network shelled out that much cash for the broadcast rights. That's serious money for something that apparently isn't catching on.
Click to expand...


Exactly what I've been saying. I'd still classify soccer as something of a niche market; world cup aside. But, there's no denying the upward trend of soccer in America.


----------



## Montrovant

Toro said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sports are generational. At one time, baseball was the biggest sport in America. In the 80's and 90's, basketball was king. Now, football has taken over.
> 
> Will hockey and soccer ever be king? Not any time soon. But, they're both capable of making serious in roads. More and more kids are playing youth soccer. And they have US Soccer, EPL and MLS, NWSL on TV while they do so. These things were not so even a generation ago.
> 
> I follow NBA and NFL. But we take it for granted that they'll always be top of the heap. They won't. There will always be shifts. The question is not if, but how long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I heard the same arguments in the 70s. North American Soccer League, Pele was going to transform the sports. Millions of kids were in soccer leagues and would be lifelong fans.
> 
> It never happened
> 
> I heard the same thing when the US Women's Soccer team won the World Cup. Millions of little girls were soccer fans. Women's soccer was going to take off
> 
> It never happened
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is happening right now.
> 
> I'm not arguing whether or not you or anyone likes the sport. That's a personal preference and I totally respect that.  I'm just looking at the raw numbers. Exactly $0 was spent on full-time professional soccer in the US a generation ago. Today MLS generates close to $400 million a year. The World Cup was sold for $425 million. NBC spent $100 million to start broadcasting English Premiership matches over the next few years. Think about that. Except for the Olympics, I can't think of any sporting event outside of the United States for which a US network shelled out that much cash for the broadcast rights. That's serious money for something that apparently isn't catching on.
Click to expand...


What other sporting event outside the US would even be available?  Cricket?  Rugby?

Soccer is far and away the most popular spectator sport worldwide, of course it will command the most money to broadcast (outside of US sports).

On the other hand, compare that to the billions in tv rights for the NFL.  Hell, even the NHL gets something like $200 million a year, and they have been seemingly in decline for years (damn you lockouts!).

Soccer certainly has some popularity, and changes in the makeup of our population may increase that, but for now it's still a bit of a fringe sport in the US.


----------



## Montrovant

TheGreatGatsby said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Different people have different skills.  Soccer is not going to be the most challenging sport for everyone.
> 
> How much you play and the competition are also going to play a factor in the difficulty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was talking from a fitness perspective, not a skill perspective. Skills are mainly learned anyways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's why the last WCQ got the highest WCQ rating ever?
Click to expand...


Is there a particular reason you are responding to your own post with a question?


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

rightwinger said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I heard the same arguments in the 70s. North American Soccer League, Pele was going to transform the sports. Millions of kids were in soccer leagues and would be lifelong fans.
> 
> It never happened
> 
> I heard the same thing when the US Women's Soccer team won the World Cup. Millions of little girls were soccer fans. Women's soccer was going to take off
> 
> It never happened
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Throwing women's soccer into the equation is like me bringing up WNBA or the lingirie bowl. It just doesn't belong.
> 
> And perhaps the arguments you heard in the 70s rang true. The US made the world cup by 90 and hosted it by 94. It's been growing ever since.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it hasn't
Click to expand...


There ya go.

That's why the last WCQ got the highest WCQ rating ever?


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Montrovant said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I heard the same arguments in the 70s. North American Soccer League, Pele was going to transform the sports. Millions of kids were in soccer leagues and would be lifelong fans.
> 
> It never happened
> 
> I heard the same thing when the US Women's Soccer team won the World Cup. Millions of little girls were soccer fans. Women's soccer was going to take off
> 
> It never happened
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is happening right now.
> 
> I'm not arguing whether or not you or anyone likes the sport. That's a personal preference and I totally respect that.  I'm just looking at the raw numbers. Exactly $0 was spent on full-time professional soccer in the US a generation ago. Today MLS generates close to $400 million a year. The World Cup was sold for $425 million. NBC spent $100 million to start broadcasting English Premiership matches over the next few years. Think about that. Except for the Olympics, I can't think of any sporting event outside of the United States for which a US network shelled out that much cash for the broadcast rights. That's serious money for something that apparently isn't catching on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What other sporting event outside the US would even be available?  Cricket?  Rugby?
> 
> Soccer is far and away the most popular spectator sport worldwide, of course it will command the most money to broadcast (outside of US sports).
> 
> On the other hand, compare that to the billions in tv rights for the NFL.  Hell, even the NHL gets something like $200 million a year, and they have been seemingly in decline for years (damn you lockouts!).
> 
> Soccer certainly has some popularity, and changes in the makeup of our population may increase that, but for now it's still a bit of a fringe sport in the US.
Click to expand...


Those are American domestic contracts. Other countries have their own networks.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Most 270 lb plus linemen have no wheels to speak of; DUMB ASS.





Most elite linemen have extremely explosive speed over very short distances. You'd know that if you ever played a real sport, dumbass.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most 270 lb plus linemen have no wheels to speak of; DUMB ASS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most elite linemen have extremely explosive speed over very short distances. You'd know that if you ever played a real sport, dumbass.
Click to expand...


You're an idiot. First off you, stated starting at 10 yards (and beyond). Second off, no they're still not that fast. They often have a quick enough first step. But they play their position cos they can bang. A great many of them have guts hanging out. But most the time, an average speed quarterback evades them. If you're going to act the expert, don't give me SANCTIMONIOUS BULL SHIT. It only makes you look like a total fool.


----------



## Toro

Montrovant said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I heard the same arguments in the 70s. North American Soccer League, Pele was going to transform the sports. Millions of kids were in soccer leagues and would be lifelong fans.
> 
> It never happened
> 
> I heard the same thing when the US Women's Soccer team won the World Cup. Millions of little girls were soccer fans. Women's soccer was going to take off
> 
> It never happened
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is happening right now.
> 
> I'm not arguing whether or not you or anyone likes the sport. That's a personal preference and I totally respect that.  I'm just looking at the raw numbers. Exactly $0 was spent on full-time professional soccer in the US a generation ago. Today MLS generates close to $400 million a year. The World Cup was sold for $425 million. NBC spent $100 million to start broadcasting English Premiership matches over the next few years. Think about that. Except for the Olympics, I can't think of any sporting event outside of the United States for which a US network shelled out that much cash for the broadcast rights. That's serious money for something that apparently isn't catching on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What other sporting event outside the US would even be available?  Cricket?  Rugby?
> 
> Soccer is far and away the most popular spectator sport worldwide, of course it will command the most money to broadcast (outside of US sports).
> 
> On the other hand, compare that to the billions in tv rights for the NFL.  Hell, even the NHL gets something like $200 million a year, and they have been seemingly in decline for years (damn you lockouts!).
> 
> Soccer certainly has some popularity, and changes in the makeup of our population may increase that, but for now it's still a bit of a fringe sport in the US.
Click to expand...


The point I was making was that the US cares little about any sport that happens outside its borders that doesn't involve the US. So for NBC to pay $100mm for any sport that doesn't involve the US demonstrates interest in the sport. 

Also, remember that MLS is essentially a minor league. In every other professional sport in America, its the best league on the planet and the best players around the world come to play here. The best soccer players don't come to play in America. It's sort of like the Canadian Football League of soccer. And it still generates almost half a billion dollars a year. 

As for hockey, I'm THRILLED the NHL received that contract. I have Center Ice, and catch an NHL game when I can.


----------



## rightwinger

Pop23 said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> That does not change the fact that Soccer is an extremely boring "spectator sport".  There are a lot of sports that are a lot of fun to play but boring as hell to watch and soccer happens to be one of those.  Ninety minutes of running the ball up and down the field with almost no scoring at all, and that is if there is even a goal scored.  If you are not playing, you may as well be napping.  If you really are interested, you can catch the 3.6 seconds of scoring in the game on ESPN's Sportscenter.
> 
> I will grant you that Soccer is a hell of a lot of fun to play, but it simply is nothing to watch.
> 
> Immie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poll after poll has shown that people like watching a good pitching dual to a homerun fest. You don't think that throwing a ball through hoop doesn't get monotonous? Any serious sports fan will tell you that it's about the intricacies of any sport that make it truly mesmerizing.
> 
> But, sure; if we're talking about games for the typical unenlightened dumbass, maybe soccer is not going to be the sport of choice. Listen to the differences in soccer anouncers and basketball announcers. It's laughable, the chasm of sophistication.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Chess anyone?
Click to expand...


Chess is an appropriate comparison
Not because it is boring but because they play not to lose rather than play to win


----------



## thanatos144

Cant believe you guys are still talking about soccer....


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most 270 lb plus linemen have no wheels to speak of; DUMB ASS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most elite linemen have extremely explosive speed over very short distances. You'd know that if you ever played a real sport, dumbass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're an idiot. First off you, stated starting at 10 yards (and beyond). .
Click to expand...



NO, I said that over ten yards (that means ten yards total, you illiterate fool) they'd smoke you, and I stand by it.


----------



## Montrovant

Toro said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is happening right now.
> 
> I'm not arguing whether or not you or anyone likes the sport. That's a personal preference and I totally respect that.  I'm just looking at the raw numbers. Exactly $0 was spent on full-time professional soccer in the US a generation ago. Today MLS generates close to $400 million a year. The World Cup was sold for $425 million. NBC spent $100 million to start broadcasting English Premiership matches over the next few years. Think about that. Except for the Olympics, I can't think of any sporting event outside of the United States for which a US network shelled out that much cash for the broadcast rights. That's serious money for something that apparently isn't catching on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What other sporting event outside the US would even be available?  Cricket?  Rugby?
> 
> Soccer is far and away the most popular spectator sport worldwide, of course it will command the most money to broadcast (outside of US sports).
> 
> On the other hand, compare that to the billions in tv rights for the NFL.  Hell, even the NHL gets something like $200 million a year, and they have been seemingly in decline for years (damn you lockouts!).
> 
> Soccer certainly has some popularity, and changes in the makeup of our population may increase that, but for now it's still a bit of a fringe sport in the US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The point I was making was that the US cares little about any sport that happens outside its borders that doesn't involve the US. So for NBC to pay $100mm for any sport that doesn't involve the US demonstrates interest in the sport.
> 
> Also, remember that MLS is essentially a minor league. In every other professional sport in America, its the best league on the planet and the best players around the world come to play here. The best soccer players don't come to play in America. It's sort of like the Canadian Football League of soccer. And it still generates almost half a billion dollars a year.
> 
> As for hockey, I'm THRILLED the NHL received that contract. I have Center Ice, and catch an NHL game when I can.
Click to expand...


I was much happier when ESPN had NHL games than VS.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most elite linemen have extremely explosive speed over very short distances. You'd know that if you ever played a real sport, dumbass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're an idiot. First off you, stated starting at 10 yards (and beyond). .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> NO, I said that over ten yards (that means ten yards total, you illiterate fool) they'd smoke you, and I stand by it.
Click to expand...


Thanks for putting your idiocy on full display for everyone to see:



Unkotare said:


> Fat ass or not, over ten yards they'd smoke you.



You're sitting here, actually bragging about the sprinting speed of 350 lb behemoths. You just don't know when to shut the fuck up, do you?


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

rightwinger said:


> Pop23 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Poll after poll has shown that people like watching a good pitching dual to a homerun fest. You don't think that throwing a ball through hoop doesn't get monotonous? Any serious sports fan will tell you that it's about the intricacies of any sport that make it truly mesmerizing.
> 
> But, sure; if we're talking about games for the typical unenlightened dumbass, maybe soccer is not going to be the sport of choice. Listen to the differences in soccer anouncers and basketball announcers. It's laughable, the chasm of sophistication.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chess anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Chess is an appropriate comparison
> Not because it is boring but because they play not to lose rather than play to win
Click to expand...


Well, I'm sure that sucky players like yourself play not to lose anyhow.


----------



## Merchant_of_Meh

Unkotare said:


> Merchant_of_Meh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The reason you have a 'competition' is to determine a winner and a loser. Otherwise don't bother to play. Just watch each other practice and then exchange compliments and pats on the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are games either so horribly contested or, in contrast, so evenly contested, that there simply doesn't deserve to be a winner or a loser based on the run of play because neither side has done enough. If that's true, then draws are exactly the right result and they make sense with soccer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit. You compete to determine a winner and a loser. It says a lot about what's wrong with soccer that fans pretend to go crazy over it but don't understand the spirit of competition.
Click to expand...


Watch the knockout stages of any cup competition and you'll find all of the "spirit of competition" that you can handle. Soccer has no problem with that so once again, you've shown your ignorance of the sport and its fans.

There's too much simplicity in a sport that only allows wins and losses. I prefer complexity and the addition of draws add just that. 

Just as a win for one team and a loss for another team has ramifications on that team's fortunes in the league, so too does a draw when it comes to soccer. Draws have won teams titles and they have lost them titles. They are not as useless as you think they are. And like I said before, if the game warrants a draw because of the run of play, then so be it.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're an idiot. First off you, stated starting at 10 yards (and beyond). .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NO, I said that over ten yards (that means ten yards total, you illiterate fool) they'd smoke you, and I stand by it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for putting your idiocy on full display for everyone to see:
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fat ass or not, over ten yards they'd smoke you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're sitting here, actually bragging about the sprinting speed of 350 lb behemoths. You just don't know when to shut the fuck up, do you?
Click to expand...



I said a D1 lineman who smoke you over ten yards, and the odds are very great that I'm correct.


----------



## Unkotare

Merchant_of_Meh said:


> There's too much simplicity in a sport that only allows wins and losses. .








Sounds like John Kerry's "nuances"! 





The true spirit of a champion, right there!


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think, however, you may be mistaking endurance as the only form of fitness and skill.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd bet good money that any decent Div.1 lineman, no matter how large, could outrun our soccer-obsessed friend there over 10 yards. Then if he tried to line up against him in a game, well, no need to go into all the macabre details of what would happen to him.
> 
> And while he might be oh-so-proud of himself for jogging around after a ball for an hour and a half, plunk him in a pool to swim 1500m competitively and I have no doubt he'd be reassessing his "fitness" level before he got halfway through.
> 
> Put him on a wrestling mat with even a good high school wrestler and he'd be gasping desperately for air in under three minutes.
> 
> Etc., etc. ... you get the idea.
Click to expand...



Don't forget the other two examples while you are busy denying the first one, Jog-ball Boy.


----------



## Merchant_of_Meh

Unkotare said:


> Merchant_of_Meh said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's too much simplicity in a sport that only allows wins and losses. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like John Kerry's "nuances"!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The true spirit of a champion, right there!
Click to expand...


You're out of arguments then. This much is clear. 

Patrick Viera, captain of the undefeated Arsenal side of 2004 that won both the FA Cup and the English Premiership that year is a "true" champion.

Fabio Cannavaro, who captained Italy to their 4th World Cup title in 2006 while not conceding one opposing goal (save an own goal against USA), is a "true" champion.

Ronaldo, who led Real Madrid to multiple Spanish titles and 2 Champions League titles as well  as winning 2 World Cup titles with Brazil, is a "true" champion.

And those are just 3 of the greatest players of the last generation. Their feats have already been surpassed by newer generations of clubs and players. Winning is all any of these players care about and it why they push themselves to their physical limits each week, just any American athlete worth his salt, would do. There is no difference there and yet you see fit to insert one there.

I repeat, soccer has no problem with keeping a competitive edge and it sure as hell is full of the "true spirit of champions".


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> NO, I said that over ten yards (that means ten yards total, you illiterate fool) they'd smoke you, and I stand by it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for putting your idiocy on full display for everyone to see:
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fat ass or not, over ten yards they'd smoke you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're sitting here, actually bragging about the sprinting speed of 350 lb behemoths. You just don't know when to shut the fuck up, do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said a D1 lineman who smoke you over ten yards, and the odds are very great that I'm correct.
Click to expand...


I'll take that as a no to the question of you don't know when to shut the fuck up. Thanks.


----------



## Unkotare

Merchant_of_Meh said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Merchant_of_Meh said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's too much simplicity in a sport that only allows wins and losses. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like John Kerry's "nuances"!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The true spirit of a champion, right there!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're out of arguments then. This much is clear.
Click to expand...



Sorry John, your 'clarity' is an illusion. The point of competition is to determine a winner and a loser. No real competitor is satisfied with a tie.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for putting your idiocy on full display for everyone to see:
> 
> 
> 
> You're sitting here, actually bragging about the sprinting speed of 350 lb behemoths. You just don't know when to shut the fuck up, do you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said a D1 lineman who smoke you over ten yards, and the odds are very great that I'm correct.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll take that as a no to the question of you don't know when to shut the fuck up. Thanks.
Click to expand...



Take it as the (most likely) truth whether you like it or not. You would get smoked.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said a D1 lineman who smoke you over ten yards, and the odds are very great that I'm correct.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll take that as a no to the question of you don't know when to shut the fuck up. Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Take it as the (most likely) truth whether you like it or not. You would get smoked.
Click to expand...


Would you lose a race to a 350 lb dude?


----------



## Papageorgio

I used to play soccer, I was around for NASL, soccer is a skill sport, it has a lot of strategy and is a game of endurance. In football the average miles run in a game is 1.25 miles per game, basketball is 2.5 miles per game, soccer is 7 miles per game. 

I don't care for the tie. Low scoring is fine. 

Soccer we thought would boom in the late 70's and 80's and even though a world sport. It is still a small time sport as compared to the big three.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll take that as a no to the question of you don't know when to shut the fuck up. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take it as the (most likely) truth whether you like it or not. You would get smoked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Would you lose a race to a 350 lb dude?
Click to expand...


Depends on which 350 lbs dude and how long the race is.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Take it as the (most likely) truth whether you like it or not. You would get smoked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would you lose a race to a 350 lb dude?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Depends on which 350 lbs dude and how long the race is.
Click to expand...


Look at you backtrack like a fucker. You said "any d-1 lineman." You make points for shit, dude. This is why I kept telling you to just shut the fuck up and stop embarrassing yourself.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would you lose a race to a 350 lb dude?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on which 350 lbs dude and how long the race is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look at you backtrack like a fucker. You said "any d-1 lineman." You make points for shit, dude. This is why I kept telling you to just shut the fuck up and stop embarrassing yourself.
Click to expand...



I haven't backtracked on anything, idiot. I was responding to your question. My estimation has not changed. 

I'd bet good money that any decent Div.1 lineman, no matter how large, could outrun our soccer-obsessed friend there over 10 yards. Then if he tried to line up against him in a game, well, no need to go into all the macabre details of what would happen to him. 

And while he might be oh-so-proud of himself for jogging around after a ball for an hour and a half, plunk him in a pool to swim 1500m competitively and I have no doubt he'd be reassessing his "fitness" level before he got halfway through.

Put him on a wrestling mat with even a good high school wrestler and he'd be gasping desperately for air in under three minutes. 

Etc., etc. ... you get the idea.

Smells like your pride is making it hard for you to admit the truth.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on which 350 lbs dude and how long the race is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look at you backtrack like a fucker. You said "any d-1 lineman." You make points for shit, dude. This is why I kept telling you to just shut the fuck up and stop embarrassing yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't backtracked on anything, idiot. I was responding to your question. My estimation has not changed.
> 
> I'd bet good money that any decent Div.1 lineman, no matter how large, could outrun our soccer-obsessed friend there over 10 yards. Then if he tried to line up against him in a game, well, no need to go into all the macabre details of what would happen to him.
> 
> And while he might be oh-so-proud of himself for jogging around after a ball for an hour and a half, plunk him in a pool to swim 1500m competitively and I have no doubt he'd be reassessing his "fitness" level before he got halfway through.
> 
> Put him on a wrestling mat with even a good high school wrestler and he'd be gasping desperately for air in under three minutes.
> 
> Etc., etc. ... you get the idea.
> 
> Smells like your pride is making it hard for you to admit the truth.
Click to expand...


Yes you are backtracking, fuckface. You say D-1 lineman could beat me in a race of 10 yards or more. Now, it's "any decent" linemen. And you make this bull shit claim even though you know nothing of my fitness and even though you seem to think you'd beat your share of D-1 linemen. How fucking stupid are you?

And now you're making stupid fucking points about me going up against a d-linemen on a line or putting a soccer player into a pool or on a wrestling mat as if that changes the fact that soccer is more of a game of fitness than basketball, football or baseball. Learn to fucking argue or just seriously shut the fuck up.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

BTW dipshit; at the 2012 draft combine__ all of one OL prospects ran a 40 under 5 seconds. And that's the best of the best. There are literally hundreds of D1 OL.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look at you backtrack like a fucker. You said "any d-1 lineman." You make points for shit, dude. This is why I kept telling you to just shut the fuck up and stop embarrassing yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't backtracked on anything, idiot. I was responding to your question. My estimation has not changed.
> 
> I'd bet good money that any decent Div.1 lineman, no matter how large, could outrun our soccer-obsessed friend there over 10 yards. Then if he tried to line up against him in a game, well, no need to go into all the macabre details of what would happen to him.
> 
> And while he might be oh-so-proud of himself for jogging around after a ball for an hour and a half, plunk him in a pool to swim 1500m competitively and I have no doubt he'd be reassessing his "fitness" level before he got halfway through.
> 
> Put him on a wrestling mat with even a good high school wrestler and he'd be gasping desperately for air in under three minutes.
> 
> Etc., etc. ... you get the idea.
> 
> Smells like your pride is making it hard for you to admit the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes you are backtracking, fuckface. You say D-1 lineman could beat me in a race of 10 yards or more. Now, it's "any decent" linemen.
Click to expand...



Just how stupid are you? Do you not recognize the difference between *your* question and *my* assertion? If you can't read it's going to be very difficult to try and help you correct your mistaken notions about sports.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> And now you're making stupid fucking points about me going up against a d-linemen on a line or putting a soccer player into a pool or on a wrestling mat as if that changes the fact that soccer is more of a game of fitness than basketball, football or baseball. Learn to fucking argue or just seriously shut the fuck up.





You reek of desperation and humiliation. Just admit you were wrong and move on.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> BTW dipshit; at the 2012 draft combine__ all of one OL prospects ran a 40 under 5 seconds. And that's the best of the best. There are literally hundreds of D1 OL.





I didn't say running a 40, you illiterate boob.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> And now you're making stupid fucking points about me going up against a d-linemen on a line or putting a soccer player into a pool or on a wrestling mat as if that changes the fact that soccer is more of a game of fitness than basketball, football or baseball. Learn to fucking argue or just seriously shut the fuck up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You reek of desperation and humiliation. Just admit you were wrong and move on.
Click to expand...


I love how I defy your bull shit, straight on and then you throw out these ironically desperate and pathetic comebacks that mean absolutely nothing.



Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW dipshit; at the 2012 draft combine__ all of one OL prospects ran a 40 under 5 seconds. And that's the best of the best. There are literally hundreds of D1 OL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say running a 40, you illiterate boob.
Click to expand...


Comprehension dickface; you've said on more than one occasion, a race 10 yards or more. I'm giving you the 40 times because that's 10 yards or more and that's what's on record.

Anyhow, you keep coming back at me with these totally moronic comebacks and I've granted you enough time to make any sort of cogent point on this matter or to come off your stupidity trip. Now, I just have to declare you properly defeated. Sorry dude, but your prideful, arrogant pea-brain ain't digging out of the quicksand of your own stupidity.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't backtracked on anything, idiot. I was responding to your question. My estimation has not changed.
> 
> I'd bet good money that any decent Div.1 lineman, no matter how large, could outrun our soccer-obsessed friend there over 10 yards. Then if he tried to line up against him in a game, well, no need to go into all the macabre details of what would happen to him.
> 
> And while he might be oh-so-proud of himself for jogging around after a ball for an hour and a half, plunk him in a pool to swim 1500m competitively and I have no doubt he'd be reassessing his "fitness" level before he got halfway through.
> 
> Put him on a wrestling mat with even a good high school wrestler and he'd be gasping desperately for air in under three minutes.
> 
> Etc., etc. ... you get the idea.
> 
> Smells like your pride is making it hard for you to admit the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes you are backtracking, fuckface. You say D-1 lineman could beat me in a race of 10 yards or more. Now, it's "any decent" linemen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Just how stupid are you? Do you not recognize the difference between *your* question and *my* assertion? If you can't read it's going to be very difficult to try and help you correct your mistaken notions about sports.
Click to expand...


Don't think you're going to twist this up with nonsense. You claimed that ANY D-1 linemen could beat me in a race. And you did this as a desperate attempt to talk up their fitness relative to soccer players and to put me down; even though you know jack fucking shit about my fitness.

Later, it became "any decent d-1 lineman." And yes, that is backtracking.

Also, I asked you if they would then beat you in a race. Your pompus ass didn't want to admit you'd lose to some slow ass 300 pound tub of lards, so you qualified that it depended. So, you know on its face that your assertion was whack and you still cling to it. You don't get it both ways dickface, either some of them are slow motherfuckers or they're all quite the sprinters that you'd claim they'd beat me in a race. THAT WAS YOUR FUCKING PREMISE.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> And now you're making stupid fucking points about me going up against a d-linemen on a line or putting a soccer player into a pool or on a wrestling mat as if that changes the fact that soccer is more of a game of fitness than basketball, football or baseball. Learn to fucking argue or just seriously shut the fuck up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You reek of desperation and humiliation. Just admit you were wrong and move on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I love how I defy your bull shit, straight on .
Click to expand...




You haven't defied anything because you apparently don't know how to read. I didn't realize you were really this stupid.


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## Montrovant

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> And now you're making stupid fucking points about me going up against a d-linemen on a line or putting a soccer player into a pool or on a wrestling mat as if that changes the fact that soccer is more of a game of fitness than basketball, football or baseball. Learn to fucking argue or just seriously shut the fuck up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You reek of desperation and humiliation. Just admit you were wrong and move on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I love how I defy your bull shit, straight on and then you throw out these ironically desperate and pathetic comebacks that mean absolutely nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW dipshit; at the 2012 draft combine__ all of one OL prospects ran a 40 under 5 seconds. And that's the best of the best. There are literally hundreds of D1 OL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't say running a 40, you illiterate boob.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Comprehension dickface; you've said on more than one occasion, a race 10 yards or more. I'm giving you the 40 times because that's 10 yards or more and that's what's on record.
> 
> Anyhow, you keep coming back at me with these totally moronic comebacks and I've granted you enough time to make any sort of cogent point on this matter or to come off your stupidity trip. Now, I just have to declare you properly defeated. Sorry dude, but your prideful, arrogant pea-brain ain't digging out of the quicksand of your own stupidity.
Click to expand...


I don't give a crap who can run how far how fast.

I am pretty sure, however, that Unkotare never said 10 yards or more.  I believe he said 'over 10 yards'.  While I can see how that might cause some confusion, he did clarify that he meant a 10 yard race, not a race longer than 10 yards.

This argument is ridiculous enough without adding misquotes to it.


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## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> you've said on more than one occasion, a race 10 yards or more. .




No I did *not*, you illiterate _*moron*_. 

Pay attention for once in your life:

"over a length of" = "covering a length of" = consisting of a length of"

What is your first language?


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## Montrovant

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll take that as a no to the question of you don't know when to shut the fuck up. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take it as the (most likely) truth whether you like it or not. You would get smoked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Would you lose a race to a 350 lb dude?
Click to expand...


This is not the same as asking, 'Would you lose a race to a 350 lb D-1 lineman?'.

And really, who gives a shit?  Soccer players are going to be faster and with more endurance than football linemen.  Football linemen will be stronger.  There are multiple aspects to physical fitness, hooray!


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## Montrovant

And to be fair, yes, 'any D-1 lineman' is certainly different than, 'any decent D-1 lineman'.  So yes, that is a backtrack.

And again, why do we care?

Let's just all agree that football and hockey are the best sports and move on!


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## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes you are backtracking, fuckface. You say D-1 lineman could beat me in a race of 10 yards or more. Now, it's "any decent" linemen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just how stupid are you? Do you not recognize the difference between *your* question and *my* assertion? If you can't read it's going to be very difficult to try and help you correct your mistaken notions about sports.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't think you're going to twist this up with nonsense. You claimed that ANY D-1 linemen could beat me in a race. And you did this as a desperate attempt to talk up their fitness relative to soccer players and to put me down; even though you know jack fucking shit about my fitness.
> 
> Later, it became "any decent d-1 lineman." And yes, that is backtracking.
> 
> Also, I asked you if they would then beat you in a race. Your pompus ass didn't want to admit you'd lose to some slow ass 300 pound tub of lards, so you qualified that it depended. So, you know on its face that your assertion was whack and you still cling to it. You don't get it both ways dickface, either some of them are slow motherfuckers or they're all quite the sprinters that you'd claim they'd beat me in a race. THAT WAS YOUR FUCKING PREMISE.
Click to expand...



You really don't know how to read in English, do you? I hope this is just your trollish attempt at weaseling out of your obvious embarrassment, because if you honestly are this stupid there is just no hope for you.


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## TheGreatGatsby

Uko^^^

You keep making your meaningless blanket insults b/c you have nothing. Anyhow, I've already declared you properly defeated. But, just to put a fine point on it. At a draft combine, only a couple handfuls of linemen will run a 40 under 5 seconds. Those are almost exclusively DL and they tend to be freaks of nature and not at all the typical d-1 linemen or even NFL linemen. Another two or three handful of linemen will run between 5.0 and 5.5. Then, the typical "decent" d-1 linemen will run the 40 in 5.6 to 6.5; which is pretty much slow. Even an old professional soccer player is likely to run a 40 in under 5.0. They get any slower than that and they are pretty much looking at retirement or being cut. I'm not even in shape and I could run a 40 in the 5.0 to 5.5 range. 

By the way, that finer point is on your dunce cap. You've been put in your place, proper.


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## Unkotare

Montrovant said:


> And to be fair, yes, 'any D-1 lineman' is certainly different than, 'any decent D-1 lineman'.  So yes, that is a backtrack.




No backtrack implied or intended. Take your pick. Anyone playing at the D-1 level is going to be decent at the very least.


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## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Uko^^^
> 
> You keep making your meaningless blanket insults b/c you have nothing.




That would seem to be the role YOU have embraced, as anyone who - unlike you - can read English surely sees by now.


Screeching "I win! I win!" while you run away with your tail between your legs is not going to save you any face, champ.


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## TheGreatGatsby

Unko: I'll state up front that I'm not arguing because you've been declared properly defeated and you've sufficiently embarrassed yourself. But, I'll state that you're definitely now including 'decent' to include all D-1 linemen when you clearly were using it to exclude some less desirables in the first place. 

Also, you said it depends on what 350 lb person you raced, which incidentally makes you a slow ass and you really shouldn't go around challenging other people's athleticism if so. But as it relates to the point, fit people aren't generally 300 pounds plus. But many of them are strong and can play football. Of course, none of that means anything to your retarded assertions that d-1 linemen are especially fit.


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## TheGreatGatsby

Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uko^^^
> 
> You keep making your meaningless blanket insults b/c you have nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would seem to be the role YOU have embraced, as anyone who - unlike you - can read English surely sees by now.
> 
> Screeching "I win! I win!" while you run away with your tail between your legs is not going to save you any face, champ.
Click to expand...


This is how tools argue. They cut up quotes to ignore context. And if by win you mean properly defeated then yea.


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## Immanuel

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> THIS is a perfect example of how anti-soccer propaganda in the sports media works upon the typical American dumb ass. He's just parroting idiots like Jim Rome. Soccer is a game of great skill, fitness and strategy. Most the out of shape gimps who criticize soccer should go try playing a serious pick-up game of soccer sometime. Then they'll find a real respect for the game when their gasping on fumes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That does not change the fact that Soccer is an extremely boring "spectator sport".  There are a lot of sports that are a lot of fun to play but boring as hell to watch and soccer happens to be one of those.  Ninety minutes of running the ball up and down the field with almost no scoring at all, and that is if there is even a goal scored.  If you are not playing, you may as well be napping.  If you really are interested, you can catch the 3.6 seconds of scoring in the game on ESPN's Sportscenter.
> 
> I will grant you that Soccer is a hell of a lot of fun to play, but it simply is nothing to watch.
> 
> Immie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Poll after poll has shown that people like watching a good pitching dual to a homerun fest. You don't think that throwing a ball through hoop doesn't get monotonous? Any serious sports fan will tell you that it's about the intricacies of any sport that make it truly mesmerizing.
> 
> But, sure; if we're talking about games for the typical unenlightened dumbass, maybe soccer is not going to be the sport of choice. Listen to the differences in soccer anouncers and basketball announcers. It's laughable, the chasm of sophistication.
Click to expand...


Basketball sucks... in fact, I have found the NBA to be the cure for insomnia.  Another game that sucks to watch is baseball.  The difference between the announcers?  Yeah, soccer announcers all have one thing in common.  They can draw out the word "Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll" for what seems like an eternity.  Of course, they do that in the failed attempt to make people think there is actually something exciting actually going on for the spectators.  Face it, as a spectator sport your game sucks tomcat tit.

Immie


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Immanuel said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> That does not change the fact that Soccer is an extremely boring "spectator sport".  There are a lot of sports that are a lot of fun to play but boring as hell to watch and soccer happens to be one of those.  Ninety minutes of running the ball up and down the field with almost no scoring at all, and that is if there is even a goal scored.  If you are not playing, you may as well be napping.  If you really are interested, you can catch the 3.6 seconds of scoring in the game on ESPN's Sportscenter.
> 
> I will grant you that Soccer is a hell of a lot of fun to play, but it simply is nothing to watch.
> 
> Immie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poll after poll has shown that people like watching a good pitching dual to a homerun fest. You don't think that throwing a ball through hoop doesn't get monotonous? Any serious sports fan will tell you that it's about the intricacies of any sport that make it truly mesmerizing.
> 
> But, sure; if we're talking about games for the typical unenlightened dumbass, maybe soccer is not going to be the sport of choice. Listen to the differences in soccer anouncers and basketball announcers. It's laughable, the chasm of sophistication.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Basketball sucks... in fact, I have found the NBA to be the cure for insomnia.  Another game that sucks to watch is baseball.  The difference between the announcers?  Yeah, soccer announcers all have one thing in common.  They can draw out the word "Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll" for what seems like an eternity.  Of course, they do that in the failed attempt to make people think there is actually something exciting actually going on for the spectators.  Face it, as a spectator sport your game sucks tomcat tit.
> 
> Immie
Click to expand...


That's the Spanish broadcasts. Watch and EPL broadcast and you'll see the highest class of broadcaster in any sport.


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## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uko^^^
> 
> You keep making your meaningless blanket insults b/c you have nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would seem to be the role YOU have embraced, as anyone who - unlike you - can read English surely sees by now.
> 
> Screeching "I win! I win!" while you run away with your tail between your legs is not going to save you any face, champ.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is how tools argue. .
Click to expand...



Yes, I've noticed you trying to do just that for several posts now. Kinda makes you look like both an idiot and an asshole. Good luck on trying to learn how to read, champ.


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## TheGreatGatsby

^^^

Good luck on beating a 350 lb man in a foot race. Apparently, you need it.


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## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> ^^^
> 
> Good luck on beating a 350 lb man in a foot race. Apparently, you need it.




Good luck learning how to read. Apparently, you need it.


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## Unkotare

And I notice TheGreatPussy wouldn't even try to address the other two examples that put the lie to his "fitness" theory...


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## TheGreatGatsby

Unkotare said:


> And I notice TheGreatPussy wouldn't even try to address the other two examples that put the lie to his "fitness" theory...



Do you even know what you're talking about? I don't even know what the fuck point you're trying to make. Try writing that again with clarity, dink.

Also, I'm not the one arguing the fitness and speed of fat behemoths.

And, I've gave you an in depth example with the 40 speeds. You've given me cut-off quotes to ignore context and a bunch of crying. So, who especially gives a fuck what BS you're talking about at this point. You tried to argue the fitness and speed of fat people. Your argument was lost when you made it. It doesn't matter what points you pretend I've ignored.


----------



## TheOldSchool

This seems like as good a place as any to bring this up...

How about America's never-ending "football" embarrassment?  An NFL game in London every year for 7 FUCKING YEARS???

What the fuck is that?  "Oy why don't ye send em off to jolly whop around on the old soccer pitch?"

Steelers and Vikings fans, the NFL owes you an apology.


----------



## Toro

TheOldSchool said:


> This seems like as good a place as any to bring this up...
> 
> How about America's never-ending "football" embarrassment?  An NFL game in London every year for 7 FUCKING YEARS???
> 
> What the fuck is that?  "Oy why don't ye send em off to jolly whop around on the old soccer pitch?"
> 
> Steelers and Vikings fans, the NFL owes you an apology.



The Vikings won, so I don't care!


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

TheOldSchool said:


> This seems like as good a place as any to bring this up...
> 
> How about America's never-ending "football" embarrassment?  An NFL game in London every year for 7 FUCKING YEARS???
> 
> What the fuck is that?  "Oy why don't ye send em off to jolly whop around on the old soccer pitch?"
> 
> Steelers and Vikings fans, the NFL owes you an apology.



Minnesota was the home team and they likely agreed to it because they made a lot more money that way; which is ultimately good for the franchise.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> I've gave you an in depth example with the 40 speeds. .





Despite being told time and time again that I was talking about TEN YARDS, you brain dead buffoon.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> You tried to argue the fitness and speed of fat people. .





What I did was point out the utter BS of your "But...but...they're _fit_!" whine in trying to justify jog-ball in the face of its lack of popularity in the US.


----------



## TheOldSchool

Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> You tried to argue the fitness and speed of fat people. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I did was point out the utter BS of your "But...but...they're _fit_!" whine in trying to justify jog-ball in the face of its lack of popularity in the US.
Click to expand...


"jog-ball" <--


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> You tried to argue the fitness and speed of fat people. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I did was point out the utter BS of your "But...but...they're _fit_!" whine in trying to justify jog-ball in the face of its lack of popularity in the US.
Click to expand...


Whoever knows what you're jibber-jabbering about. You thanked the post that stated football games, players run a mile and a quarter and soccer players run seven miles. Anyhow, you were arguing the speed and fitness of fat people and you put your idiocy on display.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> You tried to argue the fitness and speed of fat people. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I did was point out the utter BS of your "But...but...they're _fit_!" whine in trying to justify jog-ball in the face of its lack of popularity in the US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whoever knows what you're jibber-jabbering about. .
Click to expand...




People who can read and comprehend English, you idiot.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Alright, that's like the nth post in a row, you've said nothing besides basically 'look at me, daddy.' I'm gonna have to stick a fork in ya. You're pathetic.


----------



## Unkotare

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Alright, that's like the nth post in a row, you've said nothing besides basically 'look at me, daddy.' I'm gonna have to stick a fork in ya. You're pathetic.



No, it's "like" the 10th post in a row where I've tried to correct you only to find you are too stupid to comprehend written English.

Your little "But...but...they're _fit_!" whine has been torn to shreds and you have been making a fool of yourself ever since.


----------



## theHawk

TheOldSchool said:


> This seems like as good a place as any to bring this up...
> 
> How about America's never-ending "football" embarrassment?  An NFL game in London every year for 7 FUCKING YEARS???
> 
> What the fuck is that?  "Oy why don't ye send em off to jolly whop around on the old soccer pitch?"
> 
> Steelers and Vikings fans, the NFL owes you an apology.



American football is pretty wild over here in Europe.  The fans are crazy and love it.

American football is more likely to become more popular in Europe than soccer is in the US.


----------



## TheOldSchool

theHawk said:


> American football is pretty wild over here in Europe.  The fans are crazy and love it.



Really?


----------



## theHawk

TheOldSchool said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> American football is pretty wild over here in Europe.  The fans are crazy and love it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
Click to expand...


Yea, a co-worker of mine just went to the Viking game in London.  He said it was nuts, unlike any football game he has ever been to.  They had main streets in London shut down with fests going on, he even saw Germans on the airplane back still fully dressed in viking helmets.


----------



## Toro

theHawk said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> 
> This seems like as good a place as any to bring this up...
> 
> How about America's never-ending "football" embarrassment?  An NFL game in London every year for 7 FUCKING YEARS???
> 
> What the fuck is that?  "Oy why don't ye send em off to jolly whop around on the old soccer pitch?"
> 
> Steelers and Vikings fans, the NFL owes you an apology.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American football is pretty wild over here in Europe.  The fans are crazy and love it.
> 
> American football is more likely to become more popular in Europe than soccer is in the US.
Click to expand...


Very unlikely. Very few play the game and there is no professional league. There is no infrastructure.


----------

