# No Burkas In France?



## Madeline (Jul 11, 2010)

A complex and interesting debate is now on-going in France about the wearing of burkas by Muslim women.  

Women who wear burkas in France face &#163;700 fine - Telegraph

What do you think?


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## Baruch Menachem (Jul 11, 2010)

This kind of thing only leads to intransigence on both sides.


What would be better would be a guaranteed guillotining for anyone guilty of "honor" killings.

As long as you don't cause troubles you can wear anything.


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## Madeline (Jul 11, 2010)

Apparently France already outlaws wearing masks in public, as well as "ostenatious signs of secularism", whatever that is.  I wonder, is there something different about France that leads them to consider such laws?


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## strollingbones (Jul 11, 2010)

i dont think burkas should be outlawed..they are dangerous in that they do limit ones vision


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## Madeline (Jul 11, 2010)

I have a friend who lived in Paris, and who told me that times are very rough for the poor and lower class there.  Apparently there are street gangs of Muslim kids and women in western garb and frequently hassled, badly.  I can understand the desire to keep France from adopting extremists views towards women....I'm just not sure this is a great way to do it.


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## strollingbones (Jul 11, 2010)

i hardly think banning burkas due to the covering of the face...is extreme to women....


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## strollingbones (Jul 11, 2010)

is it the burka or the veil they are banning?


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## rdean (Jul 11, 2010)

No burkas in France?  That is so strange.  Republicans must be "outraged".  They worked so hard with the Iraqis to make a new constitution where Islam is now the "national religion" and women wearing "burkas" is all the rage.  In fact, women NOT wearing burkas have been know to "lose their heads".


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## RetiredGySgt (Jul 11, 2010)

rdean said:


> No burkas in France?  That is so strange.  Republicans must be "outraged".  They worked so hard with the Iraqis to make a new constitution where Islam is now the "national religion" and women wearing "burkas" is all the rage.  In fact, women NOT wearing burkas have been know to "lose their heads".



RETARD ALERT, retard alert.


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## syrenn (Jul 11, 2010)

Is your face on your drivers license? On your passport? How do you know its really the person under the burka that matches the photo ID?  

just saying


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## rdean (Jul 11, 2010)

RetiredGySgt said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> > No burkas in France?  That is so strange.  Republicans must be "outraged".  They worked so hard with the Iraqis to make a new constitution where Islam is now the "national religion" and women wearing "burkas" is all the rage.  In fact, women NOT wearing burkas have been know to "lose their heads".
> ...



No, that is NOT Caribou Barbie under that burka.

Iraq Constitition:

Article 2: 

First: Islam is the official religion of the State and it is a fundamental source of legislation: 

A. No law that contradicts the established provisions of Islam may be established.


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## Madeline (Jul 11, 2010)

I'm not Muslim scholar, but I understand the burka is not a tenet of the Koran.  It's an invention of the Taliban.

How in the hell these chicks don't die of heat exhaustion is beyond me.  These get ups must just roast them alive.  Still, if that is what a chick wants to wear, seems unfair to stop her.  She can always remove the veil when she's asked for ID.

syrenn, I am not 100% sure but I think "burka" refers to the covering of the whole woman, not just her face.


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## Tom Clancy (Jul 11, 2010)

You do realize it's a Submission to men right?


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## Madeline (Jul 11, 2010)

Yes, that is how I understand it Tom Clancy.  And I can kinda sorta see why France is so uncomfy with it.  But we have had male dominance nutters here as well...people are free to believe as they wish, even if it is self-destructive.  I presume this is also true in France.


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## Tank (Jul 11, 2010)

If you see women as a peice of shit, then you will have no problem with them wearing a burka.


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## syrenn (Jul 11, 2010)

Madeline said:


> I'm not Muslim scholar, but I understand the burka is not a tenet of the Koran.  It's an invention of the Taliban.
> 
> How in the hell these chicks don't die of heat exhaustion is beyond me.  These get ups must just roast them alive.  Still, if that is what a chick wants to wear, seems unfair to stop her.  She can always remove the veil when she's asked for ID.
> 
> syrenn, I am not 100% sure but I think "burka" refers to the covering of the whole woman, not just her face.



A burka is to prevent any sexual arousal women may cause in men. 

Get it, fault is on the women for mens arousal problems.


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## Baruch Menachem (Jul 11, 2010)

I see them around campus at school.  

The problem is not the burqua (which is a head to toe covering showing only the eyes, and in extreme cases there is a mesh over the eyes as well)  but the mentality that makes it required.   The Burqua is proof that multiculturalism is a crock.


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## Madeline (Jul 11, 2010)

Yes, I get it syrenn.  Same message the RCC teaches.  We don't have to endorse it or support it....the question is, can the West tolerate it?


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## Tank (Jul 11, 2010)

Why would you want to tolerate women being treated like shit?


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## syrenn (Jul 11, 2010)

Madeline said:


> Yes, I get it syrenn.  Same message the RCC teaches.  We don't have to endorse it or support it....the question is, can the West tolerate it?



In my opinion, that is their choice. It is their religious freedom to choose how they want to live and behave. Wearing a burka does not hurt anyone.  

I am against them and what they stand for. I HATE the hypocrisy of them and all that they represent. But it is not MY place to take it away from them. 

I do have a problem when security issues are caused by them. In cases of identification burka needs to be removed on demand for visual verification of identity.


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## Munin (Jul 12, 2010)

It has to do with the history and rich culture of France. Unlike the US which doesn't have a comparable historical and cultural record, but already had a big mix of cultures since its existence.



> Liberté, *égalité*, fraternité, French for "Liberty, *equality*, fraternity (brotherhood)"



Liberté, égalité, fraternité - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The wearing of the Burka is seen as a symbol for womanunfriendly people/regimes/... (for example: saudi Arabia) and therefor extremely opposite to the French cultural values.


The difference between France and the US is that freedom of clothing is more important in the US than the equality of man and wife (While in France it s the opposite). Some countries just don't see the Burka as that kind of symbol, but the truth is that it is an extremist religious symbol that stands for inequality between man and woman. If not, then why would men not be forced to wear it? More and more European countries are considering to ban it, it s just a matter of time ...


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## Marc39 (Jul 12, 2010)

Madeline said:


> I'm not Muslim scholar, but I understand the burka is not a tenet of the Koran.  It's an invention of the Taliban.
> 
> How in the hell these chicks don't die of heat exhaustion is beyond me.  These get ups must just roast them alive.  Still, if that is what a chick wants to wear, seems unfair to stop her.  She can always remove the veil when she's asked for ID.
> 
> syrenn, I am not 100% sure but I think "burka" refers to the covering of the whole woman, not just her face.



The burqa is required under sharia law, reflecting its mandate in Islamic scripture


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## Tank (Jul 12, 2010)

syrenn said:


> In my opinion, that is their choice. It is their religious freedom to choose how they want to live and behave. Wearing a burka does not hurt anyone.


Just the person wearing the burka.


syrenn said:


> I am against them and what they stand for. I HATE the hypocrisy of them and all that they represent. But it is not MY place to take it away from them.


What is more important to you?

To not look like a racist, or the freedom of these women?


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## Madeline (Jul 12, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not Muslim scholar, but I understand the burka is not a tenet of the Koran.  It's an invention of the Taliban.
> ...



Not to be disrespectful, Mark39, but "sharia law" merely means an inman somewhere declared it, true?  The Koran has no text requiring women to wear such garments, does it?


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## Madeline (Jul 12, 2010)

Tank said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> > In my opinion, that is their choice. It is their religious freedom to choose how they want to live and behave. Wearing a burka does not hurt anyone.
> ...



I think the problem is that wearing a burka does hurt people other than Muslims.  I think a case can be made that western women are more easily targeted by Muslim men and youngsters for violence and harrassment because they do not dress as "modestly" as Muslim women.

In a culture clash, it seems to me that women's bodies are very often the battlefield.


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## Tank (Jul 12, 2010)

Ya, that is muslim law.

Wear a burka or get raped and beat.

And you want so bad not to look like a racist that you see no problem with this.


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## Madeline (Jul 12, 2010)

Well first, it isn't my number one goal in life to convince you I am not a racist, Tank.  Think whatever you like -- ain't no skin offa my nose.

Yes I see a problem.  I said I saw one.  I just am not convinced that we can solve oppression of women by oppressing ones who choose a burka, is all.


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## Tank (Jul 12, 2010)

They do not choose to wear a burka, they are forced to.


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## Madeline (Jul 12, 2010)

You know this how, Tank?


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## Marc39 (Jul 12, 2010)

Madeline said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Madeline said:
> ...



Quran 33:59...


> O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allaah is Ever Oft&#8209;Forgiving, Most Merciful


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## Marc39 (Jul 12, 2010)

Madeline said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Madeline said:
> ...



Just so you know, sharia is based on principles in the Quran and hadith.  
Sharia, essentially, is the constitution of Islam, it is not merely some imam declaring something true.


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