# A question about hamas to the pro pal lovers



## rhodescholar (Nov 28, 2014)

Given the well known fact that hamas is a scumbag org that severely oppresses the people of gaza, how come the pro pal defenders here never seem to complain about them?  How come they never seem to have any comments taking hamas to task for not governing gaza in a professional, efficient manner?


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## teddyearp (Nov 28, 2014)

Because they are more anti-Israel than anything else.


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## Sunni Man (Nov 28, 2014)

Hamas is just misunderstood.   ......


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## Dogmaphobe (Nov 28, 2014)

rhodescholar said:


> Given the well known fact that hamas is a scumbag org that severely oppresses the people of gaza, how come the pro pal defenders here never seem to complain about them?  How come they never seem to have any comments taking hamas to task for not governing gaza in a professional, efficient manner?




They only give lip service that they somehow do not support the mission of Hamas when they do not want their actual support exposed. When it comes down to Hamas' attitudes and actions, they are in agreement.

 Talking out of both sides of these things mouths seems so ingrained, the creatures might as well be stamped out by a cookie cutter.


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 28, 2014)

Fatah will give away the store.

Hamas won't.


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## montelatici (Nov 28, 2014)

Since the ruling Israeli regime consists of child killing scumbags, why don't the Israel Firsters ever complain about it.


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## Beelzebub (Nov 28, 2014)

To be honest, who would we argue with?

Its like trying to argue that North Korea was bad.  Everyone would nod, sagely, then get very very bored.

Now, if you try to use the excuse that because North Korea is bad the Americans could do no wrong, you would have a discussion.

There is no equivalence here.  Whatever the Palestinians are or do does not excuse Israel for what it is and what it does.  That is a fallacy often tried on by the Hasbarists.  

To no avail, of course.

That said, I think most Anti-Fascists here will make a point of not supporting Hamas as an organisation, while supporting their right to resist.  Whereas you never hear from the ZIonist's that their leaders have just gone too far on anything.

At least, I don't recall any such.  Do you?


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## montelatici (Nov 28, 2014)

Do you think that this Jewish freedom fighter/terrorist was any different than the Palestinian freedom fighters/terrorists?


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## teddyearp (Nov 28, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Do you think that this Jewish freedom fighter/terrorist was any different than the Palestinian freedom fighters/terrorists?



Did you watch your video Monti?  The Irgun was basically fighting the British during the later Mandate period.

The British through the Balfour Declaration invited the Jews to create the State of Israel but then ignored the Arab massacres on the Jews.  So the Jews formed the Irgun to drive them out.


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## teddyearp (Nov 28, 2014)

You folks are missing the point of the thread.  You rail and cry every time that the 'oppressor' Jews do something to the Gazans, but when Hamas does the same type of thing to the Gazans, you are silent.


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## Vigilante (Nov 28, 2014)




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## Grendelyn (Nov 28, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Do you think that this Jewish freedom fighter/terrorist was any different than the Palestinian freedom fighters/terrorists?



*I loved this video.  I should think that if Walter Cronkite, who according to Wikipedia was acclaimed by a poll to be "the most trusted man in America," stated that Israel was born by acts of terror that it would be very difficult to argue otherwise . . . who'll be the first board Zionist to prove him wrong?  ~ Susan
PS It appears that the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is in the eye of the beholder.*


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## toastman (Nov 28, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Fatah will give away the store.
> 
> Hamas won't.


Hamas is the worst thing to happen to Gaza.


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## Grendelyn (Nov 29, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> montelatici said:
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*
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_Translation:  The Zionists bit the hand that fed them.  ~ Susan_


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## toastman (Nov 29, 2014)

Grendelyn said:


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Grendelyn and her shitty little mind have reading comprehension issues.


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## theliq (Nov 29, 2014)

rhodescholar said:


> Given the well known fact that hamas is a scumbag org that severely oppresses the people of gaza, how come the pro pal defenders here never seem to complain about them?  How come they never seem to have any comments taking hamas to task for not governing gaza in a professional, efficient manner?


Hi  rhodesnoscholar.........your comment is like me saying "The Jewish Settlers" it is well known that they are a pack of Scum Bags,which actually IS TRUE


You..Israel and America demanded the Palestinians have open and fair Democratic Elections.....They DID...and voted for HAMAS......so you got what YOU/ISRAEL and AMERICA insisted upon........Time for you to SHUT YOUR WHINGING MOUTH.see you around Moron,but remember the Terrorist Zionist have been much worse than Hamas could ever be..steve


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## theliq (Nov 29, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> You folks are missing the point of the thread.  You rail and cry every time that the 'oppressor' Jews do something to the Gazans, but when Hamas does the same type of thing to the Gazans, you are silent.


Speak for yourself


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## Beelzebub (Nov 29, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Do you think that this Jewish freedom fighter/terrorist was any different than the Palestinian freedom fighters/terrorists?



Miles different.

Irgun were a terrorist organisation who were fighting the legal administrators of the country, while those same administrators had worked hard to help Jews integrate into Palestinian lands and society, in order to usurp the land for exclusive Zionist use, only.
An utterly self-centered murderous group.  Spiritually aligned with Hernan Cortes's troops, as they invaded New World and wiped out a civilisation though genocide.

Palestinian freedom fighters are fighting an illegal invader from another continent, which through sly political maneuvering and force of arms came to take their ancestral lands.
They are spiritually aligned with French / lowlands / Scandinavian freedom fighters who helped defeat Nazi occupiers.


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## theliq (Nov 29, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> montelatici said:
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How IGNORANT YOU ARE...............Balfour was a Jew...The British promoters and politicians in support for a Jewish state were all Jews..The English administrators of the Palestinian Mandate circa 1927-1948 were Jews......Irgun and all the Jewish Terrorist Groups pre 1948 were only trained to eliminate the Palestinians....which the very nearly did...........They are seen as their Titular Head, Hitler and his Nazis...........As Shit.


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## Phoenall (Nov 29, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Fatah will give away the store.
> 
> Hamas won't.





 Well you cant very well give away something that you have already destroyed can you


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## Phoenall (Nov 29, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Since the ruling Israeli regime consists of child killing scumbags, why don't the Israel Firsters ever complain about it.






 Because they don't is why, you have been shown repeatedly that it is down to hamas that the children are killed. Now the UN should start arresting hamas representatives and charge them with war crimes and crimes against humanity


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## Phoenall (Nov 29, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> To be honest, who would we argue with?
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> Its like trying to argue that North Korea was bad.  Everyone would nod, sagely, then get very very bored.
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 So basically what you are saying is that Israel should never respond to violence and terrorism targeted at them because it is what you want ?


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## Beelzebub (Nov 29, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Beelzebub said:
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No Phoenall.

Tell me, just how disappointed are your family when they realise your greatest achievements are trolling your misunderstandings on the internet?


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## teddyearp (Nov 29, 2014)

theliq said:


> How IGNORANT YOU ARE..............



How ignorant are you?  Did you watch the video?  I only stated what the video said.  The Irgun was formed to fight the British.  And that is who they concentrated on.


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## Phoenall (Nov 29, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


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 Then explain why it that when they do you are the first to cry foul and demand they be wiped out. The law is clear instigate a war and you will get hurt, does not matter  what the reasons are. And hamas instigates war all the time so must suffer the consequences of their actions. There is no question that the Palestinians instigate the violence hoping that the deaths of alleged civilians will act as propaganda. You have wrote many times that Israel should not respond to the attacks because they are illegal immigrants and land thieves haven't you, so I will say it again as far as you are concerned Israel should not respond to Palestinian aggression, violence and terrorism because palestinians end up getting killed


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## Beelzebub (Nov 29, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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Let me be clear Phoney.
I have NEVER demanded that your family be wiped out.  Never.  Not for a moment.

In fact, I don't believe I have ever called for ANYONE to be wiped out.
Though I would like to see the back of Fascism, whether Israel or Russian or Anglo Saxon, wiping people out is kind of fascistic itself, so not a preferred method.

Sometime Palestinians will initiate a round of violence.  Sometime they are presented as such but have had intolerable incitement by others beforehand.  I am not a pacifist, so can only take each instance on its merits, while wishing that Israel would not continually close the door to legal means of resolution (or corrupt those legal means) fair arbitration, or by equitable agreement, recognising that Israel really is a cuckoo in the Middle Eastern region, and should not demand rights and territory it withholds from others.

As to Palestinians getting killed:  They are killed by  Israelis, in the main.  Israelis may accuse the victim of being at fault, but that is just a smoke screen.  At every stage Israel has the choice to respond but to NOT kill civilians.

If those same civilians were Jewish, and it had the same military challenge to deal with it would take infinitely more care.  Which is the litmus test.

Israel kills Palestinians innocents by choice.  It is Israels fault.  It is a war crime.  They may anyway get away with it because of US and EU support.  It doesn't change the fact that it is Israel's crime.


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## Phoenall (Nov 29, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


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 Who mentioned my family until you just did ? You constantly demand that the Israeli's be wiped out .

 LINK to Israel being fascist, and from a non partisan source as well

 Bullshit the Palestinians instigate it every time and then complain when Israel retaliates and kills Palestinian terrorists.

 Where is your evidence of Israel closing the doors on  legal means of resolution, and from a non partisan source.

 Israel responds to violence and terrorism instigated by Palestinian "civilians" so of course they will be killed. When Israel responds to acts of war by the Palestinians the Palestinians surround their soldiers with "civilians" so they will be killed boosting the propaganda value.

 Israel has no other options but to target the weapons of war used against them stationed illegally in civilian areas. Now if you read the Geneva conventions you will see that the aggressors, in this case hamas, is fully responsible for any civilian deaths resulting from return fire. So in the eyes of the LAW it is the P.A' s fault and it is the P.A's crime


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## Beelzebub (Nov 29, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> ... You constantly demand that the Israeli's be wiped out .



No I don't.



> Palestinians instigate it every time and then complain when Israel retaliates and kills Palestinian terrorists.
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Link to Palestinians instigating it EVERY TIME please?  From a non partizan source.


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## montelatici (Nov 29, 2014)

teddyearp said:


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Irgun may have "concentrated" on the British but killed more Arabs than British.  The King David hotel bomb killed more Arabs than British.  Irgun were viscious animals that killed Brits and Arabs.


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## montelatici (Nov 29, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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The European Jews instigated the whole thing by migrating to Palestine with the intention of stealing the land from the local inhabitants.


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## teddyearp (Nov 29, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> You folks are missing the point of the thread.  You rail and cry every time that the 'oppressor' Jews do something to the Gazans, but when Hamas does the same type of thing to the Gazans, you are silent.



So again in an attempt to bring this thread back to where it started, here is a visual of what I believe rhodescholar was talking about:


Why is there no outcry from the Pro-Pali's when stuff like this happens?  Or is the answer to be found in the lack of directly addressing the OP by the pro-palis in this thread?


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## Beelzebub (Nov 29, 2014)

What was in the vid is not acceptable.

Take away the commentary, and there is no identification of who is doing it.  Or when.
It could be in Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Morocco.
It could be in the 1970's, 1980's. 1990's or 2000's
It could be gangland, government, Druze, or a family feud.

So you ask us to believe the commentator.  
Who is he?
What is his agenda?
Who are his bosses?

What was in the vid is not acceptable.
Is there any debate on that?

Israel occupying Palestine is not acceptable too.
Do two unacceptable things make one of them acceptable?

What is your logic here Teddy?  Do you recommend we get distracted from Israel's crimes to fish the bones out of gang-land style crimes?

Why would you think that?


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## teddyearp (Nov 29, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> . . . . Do you recommend we get distracted from Israel's crimes to fish the bones out of gang-land style crimes?


No, I just ask that you stop getting distracted in this thread from its intended subject.  This same video has been posted by many others, I'll try to find more links.

As for the rest of your questions, comments, and complaints about it . . . . . . .































Yawn, that is me ignoring them as I could do the same to every single video and link you post as well.


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## Beelzebub (Nov 29, 2014)

Nothing to do with Israel / Palestine issues?
Then the whole thread is wrong for this forum.

The thread is about Palestinian internal stuff.  Or what you allege them to be.


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## teddyearp (Nov 29, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> Nothing to do with Israel / Palestine issues?
> Then the whole thread is wrong for this forum.



Then report it and see if it merits a move.



Beelzebub said:


> The thread is about Palestinian internal stuff.  Or what you allege them to be.



Hmmm.  You must have already forgotten.  Let me remind you with a quote of the OP (and just for kicks, "OP" means Original Post):



rhodescholar said:


> Given the well known fact that hamas is a scumbag org that severely oppresses the people of gaza, how come the pro pal defenders here never seem to complain about them?  How come they never seem to have any comments taking hamas to task for not governing gaza in a professional, efficient manner?



This is what the thread is about.

And since I said I would look for more, I thought I would also show you some more links to the video I posted:



Oh but wait, there's more!  I found a few more about how 'cool' Hamas is:


Now that one is fairly pro-Hamas, but take a look at the age of the 'brides'.

And here's another:


So, Beezlebub.  When it comes to Hamas, are for them or against them?

Yes or no?


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## Beelzebub (Nov 29, 2014)

That's easy.
You've not been paying attention to my posts, have you Teddy.


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## Beelzebub (Nov 29, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> Then report it and see if it merits a move.



Not my style.
What are you, the class sneak?


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## MJB12741 (Nov 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Hamas is just misunderstood.   ......



Right on Sunni Man.  Hamas is wonderful!  Withourt Hamas who would carry on in the Arafat tradition to leave Palestinians living in ignorance & poverty with no hope for a Palestinian State?  LONG LIVE HAMAS!


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## Sunni Man (Nov 29, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> Now that one is fairly pro-Hamas, but take a look at the age of the 'brides'.


Those aren't the brides you sick fuck.

In arab tradition the little Nieces walk with their Uncles on the way to the wedding to marry their brides.   .....


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## rhodescholar (Dec 1, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> To be honest, who would we argue with?  Its like trying to argue that North Korea was bad.  Everyone would nod, sagely, then get very very bored.



Because you and the other anti-israel trash are intellectually lazy, and prefer an easier target: Israel.

If you, and the other alleged pro-pals, whether organizations or individuals, had a shred of honesty, credibility - or an actual concern for the well-being of the pals, you would be protesting hamas, conducting anti-hamas, iran and qatar rallies, and against anyone else financially or otherwise supporting them.  You would be protesting the UN for not conducting intense and thorough investigations of hamas and its war crimes, writing letters to international bodies like the HRC and the arab league to politically pressure hamas to alter its actions, and articles/letters to newspapers, and conducting many other types of publicity-seeking campaigns to bring attention to hamas' mistreatment of the gaza population and its violence/terrorism. 

But instead of doing all that which would actually help the pals, you and the other filth focus on israel, who has 1/10th of the impact on the daily lives of the pals as compared to hamas.

Why?

Because you are lazy, and because most of the anti-israel scum simply hates jews.

There has never been a human rights situation like this, where the mass protestors and protests are given a complete pass from attacking the true culprit; hamas and iran.



> There is no equivalence here.  Whatever the Palestinians are or do does not excuse Israel for what it is and what it does.  That is a fallacy often tried on by the Hasbarists.



What israel does or does not is nothing compared to the impact that hamas has on the quality of life for the gazan arabs.  That you refuse to address the primary cause of their lack of basic freedoms and human rights, their poverty and oppression is solid proof of your total lack of credibility.



> That said, I think most Anti-Fascists here will make a point of not supporting Hamas as an organisation, while supporting their right to resist.



"Resist"?  Resist what, to think?  

Has the arabs sole reliance on terrorism, war and violence helped improve their quality of life in any way over the past 75 years? 

Since it obviously has not, if they were actually led by internal, self-driven forces seeking their betterment, they would have ceased that path decades ago.  Instead, the pals have external entities, whether they can be found in iran, europe, or elsewhere, who have little or no interest in their well-being driving the conversation to ensure it stays eternally focused on Israel - but not on these external cancerous forces which are keeping them addicted to the drug of violent resistance - paid for by a complete lack of freedom or decent quality of life under the falsified romantic notion of "resistance."

Until their enablers like you and the human rights groups begin to put massive pressure on hamas to change it ways, and the cancerous dictatorship of iran is wiped from the map, there will be continued war and terrorism from gaza for another 1,000 years.


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## Beelzebub (Dec 1, 2014)

rhodescholar said:


> Beelzebub said:
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You claim Israel is an easier target to condemn than North Korea?

I think we have a confession here guys.


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## rhodescholar (Dec 1, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> You claim Israel is an easier target to condemn than North Korea?
> 
> I think we have a confession here guys.



Not surprised you avoided my questions and points with a juvenile deflection, but then again, judging by your other responses and the treatment of you by the rest of the posters, you are devoid of intelligence or credibility; a strong ignore candidate.


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## Beelzebub (Dec 1, 2014)

Hey Rhodes.  I'm waaay ahead of you.
I have been pretty much ignoring you for weeks having read some of your hate filled spleen venting.

I didn't see your questions.  I saw your confession, and that was enough.  I don't think you directed your questions to me anyhow, as we don't really have a dialogue, do we?  

You really are full of assumptions my dear.


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## teddyearp (Dec 1, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> I think we have a confession here guys.



Nothing of the sort.  Your post is just another deflection as usual from the (paid?) anti-Israel crowd.


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## teddyearp (Dec 1, 2014)

Yup, Rhodes, he is waaay ahead of you.  On changing the subject.  Detracting and derailing the thread.  Not addressing your points nor actually addressing your OP. And of course, he didn't see your questions, because he doesn't have honest answers.

Basically he proves your point. As did many others in this thread.

They are not at all Pro-Palestinian.  They are actually anti-Israel.

True story.  Case closed.

Next?

p.s., thank you for this enlightening thread.  I now know that for the most part most every one here who professes to be Pro-Palestinian is not at all so.


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## rhodescholar (Dec 2, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> I have been pretty much ignoring you for weeks having read some of your hate filled spleen venting.



Ignoring by responding to multiple posts in this thread alone...not only are you stupid, your mentally ill.



> I saw your confession, and that was enough.



What confession was that, chimp?   That you're a fucking idiot about to be ignored?



> was t  I don't think you directed your questions to me anyhow, as we don't really have a dialogue, do we?



No rational person here would give a fuck what you say or have to offer, and your total inability to discuss pointed questions proves you're a weak-minded troll with nothing to offer.  Ignored.


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## Phoenall (Dec 2, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


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 Here you go

History of the Israeli Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Hamas instigates further West Bank unrest - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East#


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## Phoenall (Dec 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


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 And how many Jews and British did the arab muslims kill then Abdul ?


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## Phoenall (Dec 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


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 How about a LINK from a non partisan source that says just this


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## montelatici (Dec 2, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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Most of the British were killed by the Jews.  Not by the Christian Arabs or Muslim Arabs.


Phoenall said:


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LOL, do you really need a link?  Do you think the European Jews went to Palestine for a short vacation?


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## toastman (Dec 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


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First off, wheres your proof that most of the British were killed by Jews?

Second, the Arabs are the ones who instigated everything by massacring Jews before any Arab was killed. Must I post those links again ? Immigrating to a place where you were invited is not instigating and no land was stolen BEFORE Jews were massacred.
You're a liar.


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## montelatici (Dec 2, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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Most of the British were murdered by Jew terrorists of the Irgun and Stern Gang, not the Christians and Muslims.


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## toastman (Dec 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


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Where is your link to prove this ?


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## Phoenall (Dec 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


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 YES I NEED A LINK THAT STATES EXACTKT WHAT YOU CLAIMED. THAT THE EUROPEAN JEWS INSTIGATED EVERYTHING BY MIGRATION TO PALESTINE WITH THE INTENTION OF STEALING LAND FROM THE LOCAL INHABITANTS


 So go ahead Abdul produce your evidence from a non partisan source so we can all have a laugh at your stupidity


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## Phoenall (Dec 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


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 So you admit that the arab muslims murdered the British using terrorist means..............


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## Beelzebub (Dec 2, 2014)

All these people who "need" links.

What will happen if they don't get them?  Do they ever specify that?


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## montelatici (Dec 2, 2014)

toastman said:


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Firstly,

 You are certainly ignorant of the facts, but I shouldn't be surprised with the nonsense you post.  I hardly ever use Wiki, but sense nearly everyone knows that the Jew terrorists were the ones that targeted both the British and the Arab Christians and Muslims I will use it here.  (The Christians and Muslims did not target the British normally.) Note; The Survey of Palestine has much more detailed reports of the Jew Terrorism, but I will wait for the usual denial before I take out the big guns. LOL

"Britain increasingly began to see its attempts to suppress the Jewish insurgency as a costly and futile exercise, and its resolve began to weaken. British security forces, which were constantly taking casualties, were unable to suppress the insurgents due to their hit-and-run tactics, poor intelligence, and a non-cooperative civilian population. The insurgents were also making the country ungovernable; the King David hotel bombing resulted in the deaths of a large number of civil servants and the loss of many documents, devastating the mandatory administration, while IED attacks on British vehicles began to limit the British Army's freedom of movement throughout the country. The Acre Prison break and the floggings and hangings of British soldiers by the Irgun humiliated the British authorities and further demonstrated their failure to control the situation. At the same time, attacks carried out on economic targets cost Britain almost £2 million in economic damage; meanwhile, Britain was paying about £40 million a year to keep its troops in Palestine, while at the same time the country was going through a deep economic crisis as a result of World War II, with widespread power cuts and strict rationing, and was heavily dependent on American economic aid. There were also indications, such as several successful bombings in London and the letter-bombing campaign against British politicians, that the insurgents were beginning to take the war home to Britain. "

Jewish insurgency in Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


Secondly, how can the Christians or Muslims be accused of instigating anything when European Jews were the ones that went to another continent with the intention of taking the land away from the Christian and Muslims that lived there and create a Jewish state on the land the Christians and Muslims  owned and were living on.  Do you even realize how ridiculous you sound?  It's like saying the Europeans instigated the conflict with the Native Americans.  You really don't get how ridiculous and illogical your position is.


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## toastman (Dec 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


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First off, your link did not back up your claim that Jews killed more British than Arab terrorists.

Second, the way they can be accused of instigating anything is because they DID instigate EVERYTHING by massacring Jews BEFORE (key word here is BEFORE) ANY land was taken and before any Arab was killed. 
The European Jews went to Mandatory Palestine because of the British promise that they would eventually be able to make a homeland for themselves and escape anti Semitism that they were enduring in Europe. It's that simple. You are basically saying that the Arabs had permission to massacre and attack anyone who came to the region because they want to. 
Immigrating to the region is not an instigation. I'm not saying the Arabs didn't have the right to protest it, but they certainly, without doubt, were the ones who instigated the violence, and that's not up for debate.


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## montelatici (Dec 2, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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The Arab Muslims believed till the end that the British would not sell them down the river.  The British were overwhelmingly attacked and murdered by the Jews.


I might have to bring out the "big guns" to make Phoney look even more like buffoon he is if he doesn't stop denying fact.


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## montelatici (Dec 2, 2014)

toastman said:


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Try to find a similar list of Christian or Muslim attacks against the British. Or a case of Christians or Muslims killing a British minister or UN negotiator.  You provide no links for anything you just deny you jerk.

 
*1937–1939* The Irgun conducted a campaign of violence against Palestinian Arab civilians resulting in the deaths of at least 250.[_citation needed_]
*July 15, 1938** A bomb left in the vegetable market in Jerusalem by the Irgun injured 28[31]
*July 25, 1938** The Irgun threw a bomb into the melon market in Haifa resulting in 49 deaths[32]
*November 6, 1944* Lehi assassinated British minister Lord Moyne in Cairo, Egypt. The action was condemned by the Yishuv at the time, but the bodies of the assassins was brought home from Egypt in 1975 to a state funeral and burial on Mount Herzl.[_citation needed_]
*1944–1945* The killings of several suspected collaborators with the Haganah and the British mandate government during the Hunting Season.
*1946'* Letter bombs sent to British officials, including foreign minister Ernst Bevin, by Lehi
*July 26, 1946* The bombing of British administrative headquarters at the King David Hotel, killing 91 people — 28 British, 41 Arab, 17 Jewish, and 5 others. Around 45 people were injured.
*1946* Railways and British military airfields were attacked several times.
*October 31, 1946* The bombing by the Irgun of the British Embassy in Rome. Nearly half the building was destroyed and 3 people were injured.[33]
*April 1947** An Irgun bomb placed at the Colonial Office in London failed to detonate.[34]
*July 25, 1947* The Sergeants affair: When death sentences were passed on two Irgun members, the Irgun kidnapped Sgt. Clifford Martin and Sgt. Mervyn Paice and threatened to kill them in retaliation if the sentences were carried out. When the threat was ignored, the hostages were killed. Afterwards, their bodies were taken to an orange grove and left hanging by the neck from trees. An improvised explosive device was set. This went off when one of the bodies was cut down, seriously wounding a British officer.[35]
*December 1947 – March 1948* Numerous attacks on Palestinian Arabs in the context of civil war after the vote of the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine
'*1947* Letter bombs sent to the Truman White House by Lehi
*January 5–6, 1948* The Semiramis Hotel bombing, carried out by the Haganah (or, according to some sources, Irgun) resulted in the deaths of 24 to 26 people
*April 1948* The Deir Yassin massacre carried out by the Irgun and Lehi, killed between 107 and 120 Palestinian villagers,[36] the estimate generally accepted by scholars.[37][38]
*September 17, 1948* Lehi assassination of the United Nations mediator Folke Bernadotte, negotiator of the release of about 31,000 prisoners (including thousands of Jews from Nazi concentration camps during World War II),[39][40] whom Lehi accused of a pro-Arab stance during the cease-fire negotiations.
Zionist political violence - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

European Jews went to Palestine with the intention of taking land and creating a Jewish state at the expense of the Christians and Muslims.  You can't get around that you idiot.  That was the provocation that started the conflict.


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## toastman (Dec 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
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Liar, I always provide links. I already provided links to all the attacks of Arabs massacring Jews that took place BEFORE any Arab was killed and before any land was taken or attempted to be taken.
THAT was the instigation of violence. You cannot get around that. No matter how hard you try and no matter how desperate you get, nothing will change this simple fact. You keep saying JEws instigated the violence by taking land. SO show me a link of Jews taking land BEFORE any of the Arab attacks against Jews.


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## montelatici (Dec 2, 2014)

You have provided no links to that effect.  You provided links that demonstrated that Christians and Jews resisted the occupation of their land by the European Jews. 

Show me a link, from a non Zionist/Jewish source that shows any Christian or Muslim attack on European Zionist Jews before the establishment of Petah Tikva, the first Zionist settlement in 1878.


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## Mojo2 (Dec 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Since the ruling Israeli regime consists of child killing scumbags, why don't the Israel Firsters ever complain about it.


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## montelatici (Dec 2, 2014)

Should Palestinian children be taught to love the people that massacred or ethnically cleansed their great grand parents from their land and homes?


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## toastman (Dec 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


> You have provided no links to that effect.  You provided links that demonstrated that Christians and Jews resisted the occupation of their land by the European Jews.
> 
> Show me a link, from a non Zionist/Jewish source that shows any Christian or Muslim attack on European Zionist Jews before the establishment of Petah Tikva, the first Zionist settlement in 1878.



First off , Petah Tikva was a legal settlement, as the land was bought by Jews. The settlement was built in the region that was called Ottoman Southern Syria.  What does this have to do with anything?

OH, and:

*The first recorded Arab attack on Jews in what would become Israel took place in Petah Tikva in 1886*.[5] Petah Tikva was also the scene of Arab rioting in May 1921, which left four Jews dead.[6]

Petah Tikva - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Where did YOU read that Petah Tikva instigated violence ?? 

Chalk up ANOTHER fail for the expert brainwashed Palestinian propagandist, Monti


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## toastman (Dec 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Should Palestinian children be taught to love the people that massacred or ethnically cleansed their great grand parents from their land and homes?



We knew that you condone teaching hate to Palestinians children. You are a sick twisted person


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## montelatici (Dec 2, 2014)

So, as stated.  The European Jews arrived and settled and the local people resisted their settlement.  It is no different than the British settling Jamestown or Manhattan. Why can't you get it through your thick head that the act of coming from Europe and settling in Palestine was the initial act of aggression.


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## toastman (Dec 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


> So, as stated.  The European Jews arrived and settled and the local people resisted their settlement.  It is no different than the British settling Jamestown or Manhattan. Why can't you get it through your thick head that the act of coming from Europe and settling in Palestine was the initial act of aggression.



I noticed you ignored my above post where I completely destroyed your lie. 

Immigrating to the region is not an act of aggression you idiot. The British even invited the Jews to settle there. The region known as Mandatory Palestine was not the country of the Palestinians. 
The INITIAL aggression was the massacring of Jews which happened wayyyyyyyy before any act of aggression against Arabs by Jews. 
It's clear that you cannot handle the truth. But that's your problem. BTW, do you remember how you and I started to debate about this ? IT was a month or so ago that you claimed JEws were the first ones to attack Arabs, therefore initiating the violence. Once I refuted that lie by posting links to Arab attacks against Jews that preceded Jewish attacks against Arabs, you changed your argument to :"The immigration was the initial act of aggression!"

What a load of crap Monti.


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## Phoenall (Dec 2, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> All these people who "need" links.
> 
> What will happen if they don't get them?  Do they ever specify that?





 They will just ignore those who don't produce the evidence of their LIES


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## Phoenall (Dec 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


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 LINK come on Abdul were is your evidence of the Europeans Jews instigating anything and with the intention of taking land away from anyone.


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## Phoenall (Dec 2, 2014)

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 OOOOOO!!!! I am scared Abdul is going to bring out his big guns.   Bring them on sunshine I will take great pleasure in destroying all your facts and show you for the idiotic ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDIST you are


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## Phoenall (Dec 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


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 LINK to your ISLAMONAZI LIES that the European Jews went to Palestine with the intention of stealing land


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## Phoenall (Dec 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


> So, as stated.  The European Jews arrived and settled and the local people resisted their settlement.  It is no different than the British settling Jamestown or Manhattan. Why can't you get it through your thick head that the act of coming from Europe and settling in Palestine was the initial act of aggression.





 And the Jews were invited to settle, the arab muslims were not, and as your own links showed the vast majority of arab muslims were illegal immigrants


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## Beelzebub (Dec 2, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Beelzebub said:
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> > All these people who "need" links.
> ...




You are really quite psychotic, aren't you Phoney.
I suppose you find a lot of people conclude that.  Do you have trouble forming relationships.  In the real world as well as on line, that is?


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## montelatici (Dec 2, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
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> > Should Palestinian children be taught to love the people that massacred or ethnically cleansed their great grand parents from their land and homes?
> ...



You did not answer the question.  Should Palestinian be taught to love the Jews who massacred or ethnically cleansed their great grand parents from their land and homes?


Phoenall said:


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What were the Zionists intending to do?  Have a picnic?


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## montelatici (Dec 2, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > So, as stated.  The European Jews arrived and settled and the local people resisted their settlement.  It is no different than the British settling Jamestown or Manhattan. Why can't you get it through your thick head that the act of coming from Europe and settling in Palestine was the initial act of aggression.
> ...



My links show that nearly all the immigrants were Jews, why do you lie so much? As depicted below of the total 414,456 immigrants (legal and illegal) that went to Palestine from 1920 to 1946, 376,415 were Jews and only 38,041 were non-Jews.  This incessant lying is a sign of some sort of psychosis.  Or, do you figure no one will call you on it?


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## toastman (Dec 2, 2014)

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It's not about what they should be taught. It's about what they shouldn't be taught. Your question is , like you, incredibly stupid.


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## toastman (Dec 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


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Another stupid question. They went to escape anti Semitism and create a homeland for themselves, like the British had promised.


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## montelatici (Dec 2, 2014)

toastman said:


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They should not be taught to hate the people who killed thousands of their forefathers and continue to kill their brothers and sisters by the thousands on a regular basis to this day?  Do you think that Jewish children in Israel are taught to love the Nazis?
Why do you call posters that are demonstrably far smarter than you, stupid?


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## montelatici (Dec 2, 2014)

toastman said:


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Thank you.  They went to create a homeland for themselves that was already a homeland for Muslims and Christians. You don't think that the Muslims and Christians should have at least tried to prevent this from happening?


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## toastman (Dec 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


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First off, only a small percentage of Israelis took part in what you are talking about. Second, teaching to hate Israelis and teaching to hate Nazis is a terrible comparison. We are talking about hating civilians. NO, I don't think parents should teach their kids to hate Israelis, or anyone for that matter.
But thank you for making a MASSIVE fool of yourself, again. Also, thank you for showing us that you are a hateful little Nazi who condones teaching hate. 

"Why do you call posters that are demonstrably far smarter than you, stupid?"

 Oh common, don't make me laugh like that. You're far from smart. I have exposed you for the moron that you are many times, including several times today. I doubt you even have a high school diploma. Don't flatter yourself Monti.


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## toastman (Dec 2, 2014)

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Another dumb comment from Monti. Are you forgetting that there were Jews living there too ? The region known as Mandatory Palestine was not a country and the 'Palestinians' did not have sovereignty over the land. Had it been their country, then yes, you would be right. But it wasn't. 
But continuously whining about what happened 7 decades ago is not going to change anything. The land is called Israel, weather you like it or not. The war mongering Palestinians are themselves responsible for the situation they are in (as well as their Arab friends who invaded the region to "help them", when in fact all they did was fuck them over)


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## montelatici (Dec 2, 2014)

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You haven't exposed anything. Don't kid yourself.  I post facts with source documentation and you post propaganda with an occasional smattering of wiki data which may or may not be accurate.  You know as well as I that I have post graduate degree, that it is in engineering makes no difference.


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## montelatici (Dec 2, 2014)

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Stating fact is not whining.  You cannot claim that people that were invaded by people from another continent, ethnically cleansed and killed by the thousands are warmongering.  That's just ridiculous. And to call the victims of a European invasion is even more ridiculous. The Jews would have expelled the Christians and Muslims completely had the Arab armies not provided some resistance to the Plan Dalet.  

The Jews that lived there before the European migration/invasion were Arab Jews like all Middle Eastern Jews, they spoke Arabic and were culturally Arabic.  And, there were very few of them prior to the European Zionist migration  Even in 1882, after substantial Zionist immigration, there were only 24,000 Jews in Palestine.  There were 3 times as many Christians at the time.

If you want to learn about Arab Jews read on:

Reflections By An Arab Jew - Ella Shohat


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## toastman (Dec 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


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Except you're lying now, because you haven't posted any links to back up your lies. You know full well I have refuted everything you said. What links did you use to back up your invasion lie? What link did you use to back up your Jews started the aggression lie? What link did you use to back up your Jews killed more British than Arabs lie? What Link did you use to back up your The aggression started with the Petah Tikva settlement lie?
Answer to all of the above questions: None. I used links to refute ALL of your above lies. Wiki is a very credible source. The reason you say otherwise is because you cannot handle the truth I put in your face. That's why you turned down my offer to go to another section and have people judge our claims. Because you know you're wrong and you know that all you got is propaganda. 
No matter how many times you deny this, it WILL NOT CHANGE THE TRUTH, propagandist


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## toastman (Dec 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


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Again, an invasion is a military offensive. Remember, I used actual links to prove that. And yes, the Palestinians have been a bunch of war mongering criminals towards the Jews , BEFORE any Arab was killed and before any land was conquered. A while ago you said Jews started with the killing, therefore started the aggression, but when you realized you couldn't back up that lie, you changed your argument to "the immigration was the aggression'. Do you realize how stupid that sounds? 
You're saying that it was ok for Palestinian Arab to massacre any migrants who came to the region (which was not their country), and claim that the migrants are the instigators. Stop lying , all you're doing is making a bigger and bigger fool of yourself.


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## montelatici (Dec 2, 2014)

The European Zionist went to Palestine inhabited by Christians and Muslims to create their own Jewish state.  That is an invasion.  What else can you call it.  A picnic?


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## toastman (Dec 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


> The European Zionist went to Palestine inhabited by Christians and Muslims to create their own Jewish state.  That is an invasion.  What else can you call it.  A picnic?


Than post a link that proves that is an invasion. You can't just make up your own definitions


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## montelatici (Dec 3, 2014)

toastman said:


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Why do you need a link to validate logic.  The arrival of Europeans that had the intention to settle and set up a Jewish state in Palestine replacing the locals was de facto aggression.  Petah Tikva was the first settlement.  Full stop.

There are no statistics as to who killed the British in Palestine, however, I have not seen in any Mandatory annual reports or listings elsewhere of Arabs killing the British while I have seen many reports of the Stern Gang and Irgun killing dozens of British, including those killed in the King David Hotel bombing.

I have no idea how accurate this listing is, but it is purportedly a report to a UN Mediator.  I have never seen anything close to such a list for Arab killings of British administrators or military/police.

A Summary of Zionist Terrorism in the Near East mdash 1944-1948

*Prepared for Dr. Ralph J. Bunche, UN Mediator for Palestine*
Foreword: In view of the tragic assassination of Count Folke Bernadotte by identified Jewish terrorists on September 17 of this year, the following report has been prepared for the use of Dr. Bunche, Count Bernadotte’s immediate replacement.

The report is a compilation of all identified terrorist attacks on British, American and Arab individuals and entities from the assassination of the British Resident Minister in the Middle East on November 6, 1944 by members of the terrorist Jewish Stern gang to the assassination of Count Bernadotte on September 17, 1948 by members of this same gang of fanatics.

This information is compiled from reports of the US Department of State, the British Foreign Office and various American and British press services.

New York, October 1, 1948"



You posted no links that refuted anything I have posted.  And in any case, your links are  opinions of Wiki editors and can change from one day to another.  I could change the text in any link you provide from Wiki and what I write would stay there until edited by some Zionist Hasbara freak. That's why Wiki is useless for controversial subjects.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 3, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > The European Zionist went to Palestine inhabited by Christians and Muslims to create their own Jewish state.  That is an invasion.  What else can you call it.  A picnic?
> ...


*in·va·sion *[in váy'n]
(_plural_ *in·va·sions*)
_n_
*1. * *attempt to conquer: *a hostile entry by an armed force into a country's territory, especially with the intention of conquering it
*2. * *arrival in large numbers: *the arrival of large numbers of people or things at one time
*3. * *spoiling: *a spoiling of something by interfering with it or taking some of it away
*4. * *spread of something harmful: *the arrival or spread of something that causes damage or harm


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## Daniyel (Dec 3, 2014)

@rhodescholar
This is 4 months old by the way.


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## toastman (Dec 3, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
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Exactly. They were not an army. They were migrants.


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## toastman (Dec 3, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
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You keep saying you post valid links, yet you STILL didn't post any of them to back up any of your claims. Wiki IS a credible source. If there is something from wiki that I posted that you think is wrong, than you can try and refute it with your proof. So far all I hear you saying is that Wiki is not good, but that's just your way of saying you can't handle the truth.
And yes, I DID refute all your lies, and it wasn't very hard for me to do.


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## toastman (Dec 3, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
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And Immigrating to the region is not aggression . That's incredibly dumb of you to say. Massacring Jews was the first aggression. The first Jews to be massacred were LOCAL Jews btw. You cannot refute this fact, no matter how desperate you get.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 3, 2014)

toastman said:


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They did not have an army so they mooched Britain's.


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## toastman (Dec 3, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
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No, you made that up, like you do most of the time. Either way, the invasion lie is just Palestinian propaganda


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 3, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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Britain's job in Palestine was to render administrative assistance and advise.

You don't need an army for that.


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## docmauser1 (Dec 3, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Britain's job in Palestine was to render administrative assistance and advise. You don't need an army for that.


With plunderous arabs one can't be too cautious, of course.


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## rhodescholar (Dec 3, 2014)

toastman said:


> And Immigrating to the region is not aggression . That's incredibly dumb of you to say. Massacring Jews was the first aggression. The first Jews to be massacred were LOCAL Jews btw. You cannot refute this fact, no matter how desperate you get.



Of course that same human feces claiming that jews moving to israel - though most were actually ethnically cleansed from arab countries - is an "invasion", but were we to propose terrorizing or mass murdering the millions of illegal aliens in the US, the pals who moved to iraq, qatar, kuwait or other nations, etc., we'd be called "racists" by this same garbage.

Neither consistency nor credibility were ever part of their goals; they are here to simply attack jews, period.


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## toastman (Dec 3, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
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Uhhh, Britain conquered the Ottoman Empire in WW1. They were placed in foreign territory thay may or may not have been hostile. Not to mention they are thousands of miles away from Britain. So of course they had an army ! What a ridiculous thing to say. They were stationed purely for defensive reasons.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 3, 2014)

toastman said:


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There was no more Ottoman Empire. Palestine was not enemy territory.


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## toastman (Dec 3, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
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Who did the British conquer the entire region from ?


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## RoccoR (Dec 3, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

You keep forgetting.



P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
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(COMMENT)

The name "Palestine" in 1922 was the short title for the territories subject to the Mandate of Palestine.

The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - The Palestine Order in LoN Council - Mandatory order 10 August 1922 
The name "Palestine" today means:

the designation "Palestine" should be used in place of the designation "Palestine Liberation Organization" in the United Nations system,
Most Respectfully,
R


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 3, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> You keep forgetting.
> 
> ...


Of course none of that matters.

2. _Reaffirms_ the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, particularly armed struggle;

3. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable right of the peoples of Namibia and Zimbabwe, of the Palestinian people and of all peoples under alien and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, and national unity and sovereignty without external interference;

10. _Strongly condemns_ all Governments which do not recognize the right of self-determination and independence of all peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people;

A RES 33 24 of 29 November 1978​


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## CAPTCHATHIS (Dec 3, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > So, as stated.  The European Jews arrived and settled and the local people resisted their settlement.  It is no different than the British settling Jamestown or Manhattan. Why can't you get it through your thick head that the act of coming from Europe and settling in Palestine was the initial act of aggression.
> ...





toastman said:


> The British even invited the Jews to settle there



Samuel Landman was Solicitor and Secretary to the Zionist Organisation of the United Kingdom from 1917 to 1922.

Samuel Landman: Great Britain, the Jews and Palestine (1936)

".. the best and perhaps the only way (which proved so to be) to induce the American President to come into the War (WWI) was to secure the co-operation of Zionist Jews by promising them Palestine, and thus enlist and mobilise the hitherto unsuspectedly powerful forces of Zionist Jews in America and elsewhere in favour of the Allies on a quid pro quo contract basis. Thus, as will be seen, the Zionists, having carried out their part, and greatly helped to bring America in, the Balfour Declaration of 1917 was but the public confirmation of the necessarily secret " gentleman's " agreement of 1916 made with the previous knowledge, acquiescence and/or approval of the Arabs and of the British, American, French and other Allied Governments, and not merely a voluntary altruistic and romantic gesture on the part of Great Britain as certain people either through pardonable ignorance assume or unpardonable ill will would represent or rather misrepresent."

Samuel Landman


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## toastman (Dec 3, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
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Actually, what he posted does matter because it was a direct response to your post where you make Palestine out to be more than it really was. Your response to that is always the same crap that you just posted now.


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## toastman (Dec 3, 2014)

CAPTCHATHIS said:


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Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. Either way, what's your point ?


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 3, 2014)

toastman said:


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By "same crap" do you mean actual UN documents?


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## RoccoR (Dec 3, 2014)

P F Tinmore, _et al,
_
Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. 
No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts.
_UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon _​

Don't try to use a good ideal --- just to twist it to your advantage and justify Palestinian Barbarity.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 3, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, _et al,
> _
> Nothing can justify terrorism — ever.
> No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts.
> ...


"liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, particularly armed struggle;"


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## Hossfly (Dec 3, 2014)

toastman said:


> CAPTCHATHIS said:
> 
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Maybe his point is that he wants us to know that he reads the hate sites which is not unusual for many posters on these forums when it comes to Israel.  This Landman bit is featured on Rense, David Duke for RadioIslam and the Holocaust Revisionist group (IHR) plus other hate sites..  It is even talked about by some group called White Aryan Resistance.  Just goes to show  you that the NeoNazis and other Jew haters are playing "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" these days.


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## RoccoR (Dec 3, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Yes, this is a very famous "quote" used by the Hostile Arab-Palestinian.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore, _et al,
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(COMMENT)

Just remember, that:

Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
Penal legislation. V. Penalties. Death penalty


ARTICLE 68 [ Link ] 

*Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power*, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66 [ Link ] of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.
The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64 [ Link ] and 65 [ Link ] may impose the death penalty on a protected person only *in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death* under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.
The death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person unless the attention of the court has been particularly called to the fact that since the accused is not a national of the Occupying Power, he is not bound to it by any duty of allegiance.
In any case, the death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person who was under eighteen years of age at the time of the offence.
Just remember that S/RES/1373 (2001):

Reaffirming the need to *combat by all means*, in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, threats to international peace and security caused by terrorist acts,

1. Decides that all States shall:
(a) Prevent and suppress the financing of terrorist acts;
(b) Criminalize the wilful provision or collection, *by any means, directly or indirectly*, of funds by their nationals or in their territories with the intention that the funds should be used, or in the knowledge that they are to be used, in order to carry out terrorist acts;​2. Decides also that all States shall:
(a) Refrain from providing any form of support, active or passive, to entities or persons involved in terrorist acts, including by suppressing recruitment of members of terrorist groups and eliminating the supply of weapons to terrorists;
(b) Take the necessary steps to prevent the commission of terrorist acts, including by provision of early warning to other States by exchange of information;
(c) Deny safe haven to those who finance, plan, support, or commit terrorist acts, or provide safe havens;
(d) Prevent those who finance, plan, facilitate or commit terrorist acts from using their respective territories for those purposes against other States or their citizens;
(e) Ensure that any person who participates in the financing, planning, preparation or perpetration of terrorist acts or in supporting terrorist acts is brought to justice and ensure that, in addition to any other measures against them, such terrorist acts are established as serious criminal offences in domestic laws and regulations and that the punishment duly reflects the seriousness of such terrorist acts;
(f) Afford one another the greatest measure of assistance in connection with criminal investigations or criminal proceedings relating to the financing or support of terrorist acts, including assistance in obtaining evidence in their possession necessary for the proceedings;
(g) Prevent the movement of terrorists or terrorist groups by effective border controls and controls on issuance of identity papers and travel documents, and through measures for preventing counterfeiting, forgery or fraudulent use of identity papers and travel documents;​The General Assembly Resolution A RES 33 24 of 29 November 1978 was never intended to grant permission to the Hostile Arab-Palestinian free reign to run loose and spread havoc.  It is not a license for people like you to incite armed aggression, terrorism, insurgency and guerilla warfare on a regional scale.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 3, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Yes, this is a very famous "quote" used by the Hostile Arab-Palestinian.
> 
> ...


Terrorist is an Israeli propaganda campaign.


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## CAPTCHATHIS (Dec 3, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > CAPTCHATHIS said:
> ...


Yeah, I got it right from the White Aryan Nazi Klan website.  wank.com

Have you had to suffer through the criticism of Israel killing US sailors lately? Poor thing.


----------



## Hossfly (Dec 3, 2014)

CAPTCHATHIS said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


Only thing I suffer from, Adolf, is satyriasis and lakanooky.


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## CAPTCHATHIS (Dec 3, 2014)

Your case of lakanooky is definitely not idiopathic, but certainly chronic, Mr Pollard.


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## theliq (Dec 3, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


Hi Toastie,After the fall of the Ottomans circa 1916 approx.......The British then settled into "The Mandate of Palestine"They did have an Army albeit a small one,to oversee the Mandate..........it was in approx., 1923 that an influx of European Jews stared to enter this area illegally,which the Palestinians and British allowed them to set up farms ect,.as they seemed no threat to the status-quo.

No threat at this stage but by the late 20's early 30's this became a Jewish torrent of Illegals.....The British became concerned and the Palestinians Alarmed and this proved the turning point of Jewish/Palestinian relationship.The Palestinians did then realize it was becoming an invasion and tried to resist this onslaught......but with Britain dithering and Government in London the Jewish politicians rampted up their desire for a Jewish homeland(although the British promised the land for the Palestinians this proved a hollow gesture).

The Top Government Administrators in Palestine were all Jews and as time progressed,after the British fought with the Jewish illegals originally,the Palestinians roze up against the British......and the Jews...after  WW2....The UN became involved and by 1948 Jews got Statehood,the Palestinians of course rightly refused to accept the partition ............prior to this, the various Jewish Murderous Terrorist Groups set out to eliminate as many Palestinians as they could and did of course,razing Palestinian villages and towns and murdering tens of thousands and exiling hundreds of thousands......both the British and more importantly the Palestinians had been completely out manovered sic by a better equipped,ruthless and determined foe.

Today we have,the Israelis gaining more land and building settlements for immigrants,settlers to live.....I really don't think Israel have or had any intention to a 2 State solution.........maybe with Mr Rabin and Simon Peres....but today we see the Rabid Right Wing in control,and there mantra of driving out the Palestinians is for all to see........It makes a Mockery of the Jews claim that the Palestinians want to eliminate all Jews......the proof is always in the pudding and the comparison  of Palestinian Deaths to Jewish Deaths since 1948 is appox 14 to 1,the Palestinian being the higher figure,moreover many more Palestinian children have been slaughtered than the total amount of Jews slaughtered.......what a shocking inditement. sic

But the Palestinians will survive,even if the rest of the world has to help them.steve


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## theliq (Dec 3, 2014)

theliq said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



As a footnote Toastie,Jews throughout the Arab world were exciled after the six-day War in 1967....there are still some business Jews still working with Arabs,not many admittedly also someone stated that Palestinians first started killing local Jews...this is just not true because both Jews and Palestinians got on well together prior to WW2,I know because I have met them moreover they are still friends today and have been for generations


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## Hossfly (Dec 3, 2014)

CAPTCHATHIS said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


Yessiree, we have another hate site reader here.  The old Liberty incident is a favorite on the hate sites and has been dug up and posted hundreds of times over the years.  Lots has happened since the Liberty incident, but the Jew haters on here are obsessed with Israel and not with the tens of thousands of innocent people who have been killed by Arabs in the Middle East.  I guess it doesn't bother you that it is the Arabs murdering other Arabs, and you just can't be interested because the Jews are not involved.  If the hate sites were blaming the Jews for this, you would be happy to drag it up from some hate sites.


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## SAYIT (Dec 3, 2014)

rhodescholar said:


> Given the well known fact that hamas is a scumbag org that severely oppresses the people of gaza, how come the pro pal defenders here never seem to complain about them?  How come they never seem to have any comments taking hamas to task for not governing gaza in a professional, efficient manner?


 
Simple. The enemy of the anti-Israel cabal is their friend. Thus Hamas gets a pass from the haters.


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## toastman (Dec 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


No, by same crap I mean you always use the same quote when it has no merit in the debate. It's like an addiction.


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## toastman (Dec 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore, _et al,
> ...


That just a Palestinian excuse to murder Israelis.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 4, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


It is Israel's war it can stop it any time it wants.


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## theliq (Dec 4, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > Given the well known fact that hamas is a scumbag org that severely oppresses the people of gaza, how come the pro pal defenders here never seem to complain about them?  How come they never seem to have any comments taking hamas to task for not governing gaza in a professional, efficient manner?
> ...


Considering,Israel and the US supported Hamas against Arafat and gave them arms and money......why do you complain,you are responsible in the first place......later YOU Israel and the US......wanted fair and open elections for Gaza and the West Bank....which the Palestinians DID,even your own scutineers acknowledge to be fact......the Gazan Palestinians voted for Hamas.....so you got what you asked for..........I don't know about Hamas personally but as things have turned out with the Right Wing Palestinian Hating Rabids......the Palestinians may really need Hamas......You silly Sod...You bleat now,but You ASKED FOR IT........DIDN'T YA...............


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## toastman (Dec 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  et al,
> ...


100% false. There are many countries, including the entire EU, that consider Hamas to be terrorists. Why ? Because that's what they are.


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## theliq (Dec 4, 2014)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > rhodescholar said:
> ...


HUMBLE I AM NOT.....JUST RIGHT ALL THE TIME


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## theliq (Dec 4, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


The SAME for the ZIONIST TOO.......steve


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## toastman (Dec 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Load of crap. This is a Palestinian war. Israel has already won every single war in which the Palestinians participated in, yet the 'Palestinians' refuse to surrender, and prefer to remain in the position that they are in.


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## toastman (Dec 4, 2014)

theliq said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Steve, what did I tell you about posting when you haven't taken your meds


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 4, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


*Not true.*

If the Zionists had not come down from Europe to take over Palestine we would not have had war for the last hundred years.

There would be no Hamas. There would be no Fatah. There would be no PLO. There would be no Islamic Jihad.

We would only have Muslims, Christians, and Jews living together like they had been for centuries.


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## theliq (Dec 4, 2014)

toastman said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


Actually Toastie "MEDS" in Australia are a product used for femme mensuration............so,as not being a Vampire,I assume you mean "medication"....well not on any..YET.......my only meds at the moment is "Facts and Truth".......as if you didn't know,had you have used your vast intellect(am I really saying this!) and enquired properly..steve You know I'm right because I always do,due diligence ............"Meds Indeed,as if"


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## theliq (Dec 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


So TRUE......Big Up To Tinnie..........."Ever Living,Ever Faithful,Ever Sure"....steve


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## toastman (Dec 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Except, they didn't come for that. That's a Palestinian lie. They came to settle and create a homeland like the British promised. The hostilities started when Arabs started massacring Jews on several occasions, BEFORE any Arab was killed by a Jew and before any land was conquered during a war. 
Stop reading the propaganda version of history.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 4, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


My assessment is correct.

You cannot prove otherwise.


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## toastman (Dec 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Your assessment is unrealistic, because it falls under the IF category. And the IF scenario is extremely unrealistic. .The fact remains that the hostilities were initiated by the Arabs. And the Zionists did not come to take over anything. That's a Palestinian myth.
You proved nothing, except your ignorance. Tinmore, how can you allow yourself to become so brainwashed? Snap out of it !


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 4, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


You can blow all the smoke you want.

I am still correct.


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## toastman (Dec 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



All you did was give your opinion, and then said "I'm correct" . Let me try your childish tactic.


No, I'm correct.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 4, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


Cool, now prove me wrong.


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## toastman (Dec 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


You have the worst debating skills I've ever seen Tinmore. In order for someone to prove your assessment to be wrong, you have to prove it to be correct first . 

You posted an "if this and this didn't happen, then". It doesn't work like that. We don't know how things would have worked out ih this happened but that didn't. It's common sense.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 4, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


I am merely following a trend. If something is consistent for a few hundred years, why would the next hundred years be different?


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## toastman (Dec 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



You're going to have to elaborate


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## RoshanNair (Dec 4, 2014)

Hamas is a Zionist conspiracy. They don't exist.

Hell, even Zionists are a Zionist conspiracy.


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## Phoenall (Dec 4, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Beelzebub said:
> ...




 No problems at all, and if being aware of what is really happening is being psychotic then more people should be psychotic. But typical looney left reply when they are placed on the spot, ask your new found friends how they defend child rape ?


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## Phoenall (Dec 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 RESURECT THE NATIONAL HOME OF THE JEWS as they were promised and to live peacefully with their neighbours. Seems the neighbours did not want peace and chose war instead, and ended up getting their butts kicked everytime.


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## Phoenall (Dec 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...





 Actually they don't all they show is the legal and counted immigration not the illegal and uncounted immigration. Try looking at the demographics and explain the 1500 surviving births in every 1000 that you keep ignoring. ( best practise for the area was less than 50 in every 1000 )


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## Phoenall (Dec 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 Does this mean that the west should be taught to hate muslims to the point of death  because they massacred tens of millions of their ancestors in the most barbaric and brutal ways possible. I see one has lost his appeal against full life sentence and it took the Judge 45 seconds to tell him he will spend 60 years in prison and die there.


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## Phoenall (Dec 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 Well that's you out of the equation then isn't it, as even a worm is far smarter than you.


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## Phoenall (Dec 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 No it was already a homeland for the Jews that lived there, and they took the bull by the horns and declared independence. The Christians were being ethnically cleansed by the muslims and still are as shown by the declining numbers, yet idiots like you deny that this is going on and blame it on the Jews.  You try and claim that not one Jew lived in the area before the LoN invited the Jews of the world to settle in Palestine, when the truth is the Jews were the most prevalent in the towns and cities owning most of the properties. As allways the ISLAMONAZI's see the creation of a homeland for anyone other than muslims as a reason for violence, bloodshed and terrorism and they disregard every and all treaties under their rules of kithman and taqiya until it suits their purpose. Read the Mandate terms and you will see that the muslims and Christians rights were protected. and as the state of Israel has proven they have the same rights as the Jews to citizenship and all that goes with it. It was always the arab muslims that took the rights of the Palestinians away from them when they refused to allow them to declare independence of their own. They are kept in a state of perpetual refugee status because it suits arab nationalism's propaganda, while every other refugee is absorbed into friendly nations.

 You want big guns then be prepared to deal with facts from arab sources showing that they have lied repeatedly over the last 100 years about the problems in palestine


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## Phoenall (Dec 4, 2014)

RoshanNair said:


> Hamas is a Zionist conspiracy. They don't exist.
> 
> Hell, even Zionists are a Zionist conspiracy.





 Does this mean pan Arabism is a Zionist conspiracy as well ?


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## theliq (Dec 4, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


Your  summation Phoenall is misguided and incorrect...........in the mid 20th Century Jews were in the minority both in land ownership and population......prior to the Illegals......Jews and Palestinians got on very well.........The Palestinians and Jews treated each other with respect......but the drive for Stateship created this schism.......but Jews are not united on many fronts actually....it is only in the last 25 years that the Right Wing have loaded Israel up with their ilk.......that is why secular Jews are leaving Israel in droves,you realise at this rate,Israel will be left with just the flotsham and jetsome of archaich Jews whos minds are back in the Dark Ages.....Modern Israel will be a thing of the past


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## Phoenall (Dec 4, 2014)

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...





 You cant even get the names right as the Palestinians before 1960 were the Jews, and calling a muslim a Palestinian was a death sentence. The Jews were oppressed by the pact of Omar and the dhimmi laws and many were murdered out of hand so some paedophile muslim could take their daughter as a sex slave. In the run up to Jewish independence the Jews owned more of the land than the arab muslims after buying it from absentee Ottoman landlords. Not once have team Palestine produced evidence of any friendly terms between Jews and arab muslims, apart from modern ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA. You really need to look at proper reports about Israel as the population is growing while that of arab muslims in Israel is dropping.  Israel itself is secular and this is shown in its laws giving non Jews the same rights as Jews. Modern history can never be a thing of the past it is too firmly entrenched in CUSTOMARY INTERNATIONAL LAW from its name to its Jewishness. read the UN declarations in regards to Israel.


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## montelatici (Dec 4, 2014)

"You cant even get the names right as the Palestinians before 1960 were the Jews"

Really?  Were there many Jews named Husein in Mandate Palestine?


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## Phoenall (Dec 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> "You cant even get the names right as the Palestinians before 1960 were the Jews"
> 
> Really?  Were there many Jews named Husein in Mandate Palestine?





 Your big guns don't make much sound do they as this is a BRITISH PASSPORT issued for MANDATE CITIZENS.

 TET ANOTHER MASSIVE FAIL FOR TEAM PALESTINE BY ABDUL


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## montelatici (Dec 4, 2014)

"You really need to look at proper reports about Israel as the population is growing while that of arab muslims in Israel is dropping"

*Really? From Fox News no less. LOL*

*"Jews will eventually become a minority because of higher Arab population growth, said demographer Sergio Della Pergola of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and Arnon Soffer, a geographer at Haifa University."

Israeli-Arab demographic balance takes center stage as Kerry pushes partition deal Fox News*


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## montelatici (Dec 4, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > "You cant even get the names right as the Palestinians before 1960 were the Jews"
> ...



Does it say Palestine?


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## montelatici (Dec 4, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > "You cant even get the names right as the Palestinians before 1960 were the Jews"
> ...




I never fail you psychotic nutcase.


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## teddyearp (Dec 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> I have post graduate degree,



And there it is there. That explains everything I need to know about you . . . .


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## SAYIT (Dec 4, 2014)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > rhodescholar said:
> ...



Woo ... could you explain exactly when the US and Israel gave arms to Hamas?


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## Challenger (Dec 4, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > How IGNORANT YOU ARE..............
> ...



Of the 62 attacks listed here, 20 were against the British, hardly "concentrated on the British". The Zionist Congress and the Jewish Agency branded them a terrorist organisation, just like the al-Qassam Brigades are branded today. Today the Irgun are percieved as "heroes" in Zionist Israel, just as Palestinians see al-Qassam Brigades.


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## SAYIT (Dec 4, 2014)

theliq said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...



But a raging idiot you are.


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## montelatici (Dec 4, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > I have post graduate degree,
> ...



Well, there you go sunshine.


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## Challenger (Dec 4, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > You have provided no links to that effect.  You provided links that demonstrated that Christians and Jews resisted the occupation of their land by the European Jews.
> ...



He said, "Show me a link, from a non Zionist/Jewish source that shows any Christian or Muslim attack on European Zionist Jews before the establishment of Petah Tikva, the first Zionist settlement in 1878." The sources used by Wikipedia were both Zionist (the Frumkin Foundation [5], and the Jewish Agency for Israel [6]), so "Chalk up ANOTHER fail for the expert brainwashed Zionist Hasbarat, Toasty


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## Challenger (Dec 4, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Terrorist is an Israeli propaganda campaign.
> ...



No it's because their governments do what "Uncle Sam" and the Zionists tell them to do.


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## Challenger (Dec 4, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



If the Russians or the Chinese conquered America, would you surrender, shrug your shoulders and say, "fair enough, I'll become a loyal Russian/Chinese subject" or would you do everything in your power to throw out the invaders?


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## docmauser1 (Dec 4, 2014)

Challenger said:


> He said, "Show me a link, from a non Zionist/Jewish source that shows any Christian or Muslim attack on European Zionist Jews before the establishment of Petah Tikva, the first Zionist settlement in 1878." The sources used by Wikipedia were both Zionist (the Frumkin Foundation [5], and the Jewish Agency for Israel [6]), so "Chalk up ANOTHER fail for the expert brainwashed Zionist Hasbarat, Toasty


Do arab sources document their arab atrocities?


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## toastman (Dec 4, 2014)

Challenger said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Invading a sovereign country for no reason is not the same as conquering territory that was held by a country that just attacked you, after warning them not to (Jordan).


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## toastman (Dec 4, 2014)

Challenger said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


ou try. 
Wiki is not a Zionist source. And if you think I'm wrong, then prove me wrong. I would love to see you try.


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## toastman (Dec 4, 2014)

Challenger said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...




petah tikva attack 1886 - Google Search

Click the first link (Through My Enemies Eyes) 

Read the bottom page: "March 1886, a group of peasants attacked Petah Tikva........"

The book was written by Salim J. Munayer, a Palestinian. Any questions you brainwashed sheep ?


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## Phoenall (Dec 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> "You really need to look at proper reports about Israel as the population is growing while that of arab muslims in Israel is dropping"
> 
> *Really? From Fox News no less. LOL*
> 
> ...





 I did say proper reports not children's stories


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## Phoenall (Dec 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...





 Does it say BRITISH PASSPORT first making them citizens of the British mandate for palestine


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## Phoenall (Dec 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 DREAM ON DREAMER    you fail all the time Abdul, after all you are a muslims and this goes with the territory


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## Hossfly (Dec 4, 2014)

CAPTCHATHIS said:


> Your case of lakanooky is definitely not idiopathic, but certainly chronic, Mr Pollard.


Pollard???  Now where do you get that, Mr. Duke?  Should I show you my ID card that I am retired U.S. Army?  What branch did you spend all your years in?


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## teddyearp (Dec 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Yup, there I go.  I tried 'higher' learning many times throughout my life, but found that it is a two edged sword.  It wasn't for not trying nor test scores that I didn't.  But even before taking up the sword I found that everything I had been taught already was not quite the truth, so that gave me pause.

Then I found out (on the one edge of the sword) that I would have to learn many many more things that I would have to 'unlearn' later.

On the second edge of the sword, I saw that more and more lies are taught as 'truth' to many who ignored the first edge and went on through it to take both edges and now feel as though since they 'did it' are 'much smarter' than anyone else.

To sum it up, many (not all) of those with 'higher learning' (IMHO) have little to no common sense nor logical reasoning.  Just propaganda that they were taught as part of their 'higher learning' to believe as truth.


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## teddyearp (Dec 4, 2014)

Challenger said:


> The sources used by Wikipedia were both Zionist (the Frumkin Foundation [5], and the Jewish Agency for Israel [6]), so



So if that is what you think about Wikipedia, why not go ahead an edit the page yourself with references to back it up?  Any one can.

And then let us know how that worked out for you.


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## montelatici (Dec 4, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > teddyearp said:
> ...



To sum it up, you are a dullard.


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## teddyearp (Dec 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> To sum it up, you are a dullard.



Yessir massah.  Ahl I is is jus a poo dullard, jus whatin to shine yer shus massah. cuase u put me ina my plac an jus waitin to lik yur shus cee'in as how yus so much smart thun me massa.

I hope you are now satisfied with your "I'm much smarter than you" statements you always barf up around here.


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## CAPTCHATHIS (Dec 4, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > The sources used by Wikipedia were both Zionist (the Frumkin Foundation [5], and the Jewish Agency for Israel [6]), so
> ...


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## montelatici (Dec 4, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > To sum it up, you are a dullard.
> ...



Of course I am, sunshine.


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## montelatici (Dec 4, 2014)

CAPTCHATHIS said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...



Isn't it obvious?  Our knucklehead Israel Firsters live by the propaganda.


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## Hossfly (Dec 4, 2014)

CAPTCHATHIS said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...


That video has been posted 87 times. Why dont you go back to the Liberty.


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## montelatici (Dec 4, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> CAPTCHATHIS said:
> 
> 
> > teddyearp said:
> ...



I am sure you were applauding as the Israelis killed our sailors in the documentary on the Liberty.  You considered them outside agitators, I am sure.


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## Hossfly (Dec 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > CAPTCHATHIS said:
> ...


I was stationed at Ft Campbell during the incident, teaching young men how to kill Viet Cong. I knew from reports that it was because the Navy didn't disclose their presence. Things like that happen in war, General.


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## theliq (Dec 4, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


But in the end the Viet Cong killed your Guys


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## Hossfly (Dec 4, 2014)

theliq said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


*Deaths in Vietnam War (1965-1974) per Gunther Lewy
Allied military deaths* *282,000
Communist military deaths* *444,000
Civilian deaths (North and South Vietnam)* *587,000
Total Deaths* *1,313,000

Vietnam War casualties - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia*


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## CAPTCHATHIS (Dec 4, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


BS!
After surveilling USS Liberty for more than nine hours with almost hourly aircraft overflights and radar tracking, the air and naval forces of Israel attacked our ship in international waters without warning. USS Liberty was identified as a US naval ship by Israeli reconnaissance aircraft nine hours before the attack and continuously tracked by Israeli radar and aircraft thereafter. Sailing in international waters at less than five knots, with no offensive armament, our ship was not a military threat to anyone.

The Israeli forces attacked without warning and without attempting to contact us. Thirty four Americans were killed in the attack and another 174 were wounded.  The ship, a $40-million dollar state-of-the-art signals intelligence platform, was later declared unsalvageable and sold for scrap.

USS Liberty Memorial
-------------------
At 0800 hrs, 8 June, 1967, eight Israeli recon flights flew over ‘Liberty,’ which was flying a large American flag. At 1400 hrs, waves of low-flying Israeli Mystere and Mirage-III fighter-bombers repeatedly attacked the American vessel with rockets, napalm, and cannon. The air attacks lasted 20 minutes, concentrating on the ship’s electronic antennas and dishes. The ‘Liberty’ was left afire, listing sharply. Eight of her crew lay dead, a hundred seriously wounded, including the captain, Commander William McGonagle.

At 1424 hrs, three Israeli torpedo boats attacked, raking the burning ‘Liberty’ with 20mm and 40mm shells. At 1431hrs an Israeli torpedo hit the ‘Liberty’ midship, precisely where the signals intelligence systems were located. Twenty-five more Americans died.

Israeli gunboats circled the wounded ‘Liberty,’ firing at crewmen trying to fight the fires. At 1515, the crew were ordered to abandon ship. The Israeli warships closed and poured machine gun fire into the crowded life rafts, sinking two. As American sailors were being massacred in cold blood, a rescue mission by US Sixth Fleet carrier aircraft was mysteriously aborted on orders from the White House.

An hour after the attack, Israeli warships and planes returned. Commander McGonagle gave the order. ‘prepare to repel borders.’ But the Israelis, probably fearful of intervention by the US Sixth Fleet, departed. ‘Liberty’ was left shattered but still defiant, her flag flying.

The Israeli attacks killed 34 US seamen and wounded 174 out of a crew of 297, the worst loss of American naval personnel from hostile action since World War II.


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## theliq (Dec 4, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...



online.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847
henrymakow.com/israelcreatedhamastoavoid.html

There is also a definitive article in the Washington Post.......just type in Israel created hamas,washington post.

So there you go Sayit and your Possee.......theliq is the main man.....you can now shove your negativity up your Ass and later shove it in your mouths..........Enjoy

How Ever Can I Soar With Eagles When I have to dialogue with such Turkeys


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## Hossfly (Dec 4, 2014)

CAPTCHATHIS said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


What was the verdict, Winston?


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## Hossfly (Dec 4, 2014)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...


 
theliq , Henry Makow, the game maker ???  Ha, ha, ha.  Can you ask him if he has come up with any new games or if he has any more conspiracy theories?  It appears, Stevie, that you are circling with the vultures, not soaring with the eagles.  Have you discussed your high opinion of yourself with your therapist? 

Henry Makow - RationalWiki


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## SAYIT (Dec 4, 2014)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



Ya know, everytime I think you've hit rock-bottom you find a way to sink even lower. Not that Makow is an expert on anything but try to quote where he proves your contention that "Israel and the US supported Hamas against Arafat and gave them arms..."
I can see why a hateful slug like you would seek out the "wisdom" of MaKow:
*Henry Makow* (PhD in English Lit.) is a Canadian author, campaigner against homosexuality, public opponent of Zionism and Freemasonry, conspiracy theorist and the inventor of the boardgame Scruples.


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## theliq (Dec 5, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> theliq said:
> 
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> > SAYIT said:
> ...


As I said Hoss there is plenty of evidence regarding how Israel supported Hamas.....you and Sayit really are are a couple of SAD BASTARDS for all to see,but carry on denying........criticizing Jews,be ANTI-SEMITIC all you like.....You must be Totally Guilt Ridden......go read the Washington Post en-al,such shabbiness just wouldn't allow you to come to Paradise......There would be a X where it says IDIOTS.....not wanted.

Poor old Sayit....banged its head on the UNWANTED notice by the bed..................Yeah I'm a winner,I was born that way.....Me ....I help Therapists over their depression after seeing guys like you........Theliq,bringing Love and Understanding to the lesser beings who lie...........


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## theliq (Dec 5, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...


All I can say is,that the said gentleman is much smarter that you,he doesn't need to lie....and he does not....His personal opinions are his own,but whilst I am at it....don't the Ultras and Zionism Terrorism revile Homo's.......see you are a Rancid Hypocrite like all Zionists.Scruples hey,well there is NO POINT you purchasing the game.......because you wouldn't know where to start...because you have no scruples.

I shall take your slug comment as a compliment being the mood you are in.......try to be more like me Sayit......Happy......it's amazing how folk respond to a smile.but a genuine honest smile Sayit,otherwise the vid below will be appropriate... your friend(yes,even your worst enemy can be your best friend)....steve

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGDPIF82YL8


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## SAYIT (Dec 5, 2014)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



I accept your last 2 posts as an admission that you have NOTHING which supports your contention that the US and Israel gave arms to Hamas. It must feel awful to admit you must LIE to support your POV, Princess, - a felling I have never experienced - but that seems common amongst the "people" on your side of this conflict.


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## Challenger (Dec 5, 2014)

Actually armed Hamas?  That's difficult to prove, although you can see photos of Hamas fighters with M-16s and other American produced weapons from time to time in the media. What's beyond doubt, is that Zionist Israel helped to create Hamas:
http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847 (American source based on Jewish/Israeli testimonies, therefore more "credible" than the countless non-American/Israeli sources that claim the same thing.)


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## Challenger (Dec 5, 2014)

Then again, they might equally be Israeli special forces pretending to be Hamas fighters


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## Challenger (Dec 5, 2014)

theliq I see you already posted the WSJ article, I posted above. I'll see if I can find another one, apologies.


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## Challenger (Dec 5, 2014)

Here's one from the Washington Post How Israel helped create Hamas - The Washington Post


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## teddyearp (Dec 5, 2014)

So, basically no outrage by the Pro-Pals on how Hamas treats its own . . . . .


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## Phoenall (Dec 5, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > CAPTCHATHIS said:
> ...





 What muslim sailors were they then Abdul ?


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## Phoenall (Dec 5, 2014)

theliq said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...





 Nope it was the media that killed the G.I's, because pinko liberals did not like seeing dead children killed by US troops taking out communist troops. If the media was banned from the battlefield then many of todays wars would be over before they began. Problem is the likes of hamas would not have any support because they would have lost the propaganda edge.


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## Phoenall (Dec 5, 2014)

CAPTCHATHIS said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...





 What was the USA's response when asked repeatedly if they had any warships in the area again............................


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## Phoenall (Dec 5, 2014)

Challenger said:


> Here's one from the Washington Post How Israel helped create Hamas - The Washington Post





 Isnt he that well known ANTI SEMITIC JEW HATER


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## docmauser1 (Dec 5, 2014)

Challenger said:


> Actually armed Hamas?  That's difficult to prove, although you can see photos of Hamas fighters with M-16s and other American produced weapons from time to time in the media. What's beyond doubt, is that Zionist Israel helped to create Hamas: http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847 (American source based on Jewish/Israeli testimonies, therefore more "credible" than the countless non-American/Israeli sources that claim the same thing.)


Hating jews more, than loving palistanians, is the cause of this arabism, of course.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 5, 2014)

Challenger said:


> Then again, they might equally be Israeli special forces pretending to be Hamas fighters


*Post of the day!*


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## SAYIT (Dec 5, 2014)

Challenger said:


> Actually armed Hamas?  That's difficult to prove, although you can see photos of Hamas fighters with M-16s and other American produced weapons from time to time in the media. What's beyond doubt, is that Zionist Israel helped to create Hamas:
> http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847 (American source based on Jewish/Israeli testimonies, therefore more "credible" than the countless non-American/Israeli sources that claim the same thing.)



Hamas was established as a social agency whose stated function was to serve the needs of Palestinians. It's earliest iteration was recognized by Israel as a charitable organization and was supported by many, including Israel. Like most Islamic charities it morphed into the terrorist gang we now see. I suspect you know that but can't bring yourself to tell the whole truth.


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## SAYIT (Dec 5, 2014)

Challenger said:


> Here's one from the Washington Post How Israel helped create Hamas - The Washington Post



Please quote anything which supports the claim that the US and Israel armed Hamas.


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## SAYIT (Dec 5, 2014)

Challenger said:


> theliq I see you already posted the WSJ article, I posted above. I'll see if I can find another one, apologies.



Please quote anything which supports the claim that the US and Israel armed Hamas.


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## Phoenall (Dec 5, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Then again, they might equally be Israeli special forces pretending to be Hamas fighters
> ...





 You must be using ultra HDMI to make out a star of David, all I see is a blured image that could be anything.  But lets say it is a star of David and lets say it is a hamas terrorist wearing it as a cover for his terrorist activities when he invades Israel. Or is that just a little bit too far fetched for you to take in and say it is possible ?


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## Phoenall (Dec 5, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Actually armed Hamas?  That's difficult to prove, although you can see photos of Hamas fighters with M-16s and other American produced weapons from time to time in the media. What's beyond doubt, is that Zionist Israel helped to create Hamas:
> ...





 Here is the Wiki entry for hamas

History of Hamas - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 The *History of Hamas* is an account of the Palestinian Islamist[1][2] fundamentalist[3][4][5] socio-political organization with an associated paramilitary force, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades.[1][6][7] Hamas (حماس) _Ḥamās_ is an acronym of حركة المقاومة الاسلامية _Ḥarakat al-Muqāwamat al-Islāmiyyah_, meaning "Islamic Resistance Movement".

Hamas was established in 1987, and has its origins in Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood movement, which had been active in the Gaza Strip since the 1950s and gained influence through a network of mosques and various charitable and social organizations. In the 1980s the Brotherhood emerged as a powerful political factor, challenging the influence of the PLO,[5] and in 1987 adopted a more nationalist and activist line under the name of Hamas.[5] During the 1990s and early 2000s, the organization conducted numerous suicide bombings and other attacks against Israel.

 So hamas was invented as a terrorist organisation and nothing else.


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## Challenger (Dec 5, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Here's one from the Washington Post How Israel helped create Hamas - The Washington Post
> ...





SAYIT said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > theliq I see you already posted the WSJ article, I posted above. I'll see if I can find another one, apologies.
> ...




See post #193, I've never claimed they did.


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## Challenger (Dec 5, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Here's one from the Washington Post How Israel helped create Hamas - The Washington Post
> ...



Who, Ishaan Tharoor?


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## Challenger (Dec 5, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> ...So hamas was invented as a terrorist organisation and nothing else.



Yes, invented by Zionist Israel and the CIA, glad you're managing to keep up there Phoney.


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## SAYIT (Dec 5, 2014)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > ...So hamas was invented as a terrorist organisation and nothing else.
> ...


 
No, it wasn't.


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## montelatici (Dec 5, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
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"Documents from the 1980's belonging to the leaking website WikiLeaks show that Israel enabled Hamas to act in the first Intifada in order to enable it to strengthen, thus to cause a splitting of the Palestinian nation – in order to weaken the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) which was responsible for the Intifada."

Israel News - WikiLeaks Israel actively supported Hamas - JerusalemOnline


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## toastman (Dec 5, 2014)

montelatici said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
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You have serious issues with reading comprehension. Where in your link does it say that Israel invented Hamas ?

Oh, and the other day you criticized me for using a link that got its info from Wiki........


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## montelatici (Dec 5, 2014)

You do know the difference between Wikipedia and WikiLeaks.  I hope you know that there is no relationship.  The report came from "Israel News".  When possible I try to use Israeli media.


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## theliq (Dec 5, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> Challenger said:
> 
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> > Phoenall said:
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Yesssss they were


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## theliq (Dec 5, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Actually armed Hamas?  That's difficult to prove, although you can see photos of Hamas fighters with M-16s and other American produced weapons from time to time in the media. What's beyond doubt, is that Zionist Israel helped to create Hamas:
> ...


Israel deliberately ARMED them to fight Arafat........Israel FAILED


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## toastman (Dec 5, 2014)

montelatici said:


> You do know the difference between Wikipedia and WikiLeaks.  I hope you know that there is no relationship.  The report came from "Israel News".  When possible I try to use Israeli media.



I thoght you didn't


theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
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Only if you are a conspiracy theorist.


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## toastman (Dec 5, 2014)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
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> > Challenger said:
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I doubt that's true ? Got a link ? Either way, arming a group is not at all the same as creating it.


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## theliq (Dec 5, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
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You talk Shit most of the time,above is a typical example......you are always defending the indefensible....Israel,you know that country that 1 in 5 live below the poverty line,and always stealing Palestinian land.

You do realize that continually lying to yourself and to others is a mental problem....get to grips with all this Bullshit......I am getting tired of the repetition..START TELLING THE TRUTH....particulally  when I keep slapping you across the face with it ....ad nausium


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## theliq (Dec 5, 2014)

toastman said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...


You can find it for your self.......I don't want to insult you....I have already given you a few already but there are many more....start with the Washington Post "How Israel supported Hamas"
Trust you are well...steve


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## theliq (Dec 5, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> So, basically no outrage by the Pro-Pals on how Hamas treats its own . . . . .


Cannot be worse than Israel...so your point is ???????? the usual DRIVEL


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## teddyearp (Dec 5, 2014)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > ...So hamas was invented as a terrorist organisation and nothing else.
> ...


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## teddyearp (Dec 5, 2014)

theliq said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > So, basically no outrage by the Pro-Pals on how Hamas treats its own . . . . .
> ...



Your refusal to actually address the question shows the board your true feelings.

You could actually care less about the Palestinians. Your true agenda is actually not Pro-Palestinian, but only and only Anti-Israeli.

Thank you.


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## teddyearp (Dec 5, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> So, basically no outrage by the Pro-Pals on how Hamas treats its own . . . . .



theliq was the only one of those who profess to be Pro-Palestinian to answer this question.  The question asked in the OP of this thread.  And he showed his true colors.

Anyone else?

Without more deflections?


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## SAYIT (Dec 5, 2014)

toastman said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...



Neither Israel nor the US created or armed Hamas. This is just more camel crap from the village idiots. Having no credibility they have nothing to lose by lying so they do.


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## toastman (Dec 5, 2014)

BTW Tinmore, the 'Palestinians' declared independence in 1988 the SAME WAY Israel did in 1948.


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## SAYIT (Dec 5, 2014)

theliq said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



But none of the links you provided say anything about either the US or Israel having armed Hamas and even your comrade "Challenger" disavowed that bit of camel crap. So once again you prove to be a lying propagandist or, in terms even you may understand, our village idiot (not to mention a veritable legend in your own very small mind).


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## Challenger (Dec 6, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> theliq said:
> 
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> > toastman said:
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I didn't disavow anything, I said it was difficult to prove. Although it seems many Americans believe it.

Wall Street Journal Confirms That Obama is Arming Hamas Terrorists


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## Challenger (Dec 6, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Prove it.


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## SAYIT (Dec 6, 2014)

Challenger said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
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You want me to prove Israel and the CIA did not create Hamas? Are you really that stupid? It's on you to you prove it was.


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## SAYIT (Dec 6, 2014)

Challenger said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



You are reaching.
The WSJ article did not prove that the US is arming Hamas. It did say that we, along with many other donors, are FUNDING the PA - a well known fact - and that some of the funding MAY be getting to Hamas which MAY be using some of it to buy weapons. Hardly a smoking gun (pun intended).


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## Phoenall (Dec 6, 2014)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...





 YEP


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## Phoenall (Dec 6, 2014)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > ...So hamas was invented as a terrorist organisation and nothing else.
> ...





 Not according to their own history which shows they were an offshoot of ISLAMONAZI TERRORIST groups


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## Phoenall (Dec 6, 2014)

montelatici said:


> You do know the difference between Wikipedia and WikiLeaks.  I hope you know that there is no relationship.  The report came from "Israel News".  When possible I try to use Israeli media.





 You do realise that many of the articles on wikileaks are actually made up to suit neo Marxist propaganda. And have no actual foundation in reality.


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## Phoenall (Dec 6, 2014)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...





 Not according to their own history


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## Phoenall (Dec 6, 2014)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...






 LINK from a non partisan source


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## Phoenall (Dec 6, 2014)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...






 Two links needed now, one to show that 20% of Israeli citizens live below the poverty line along with which nations poverty line. The second LINK to the Israelis stealing Palestinian land from a non partisan source that also shows the borders of the nation of Palestine inside which Israel IS STEALING THE LAND.


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## Challenger (Dec 6, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...



On the contrary, I have made an assertion and provided evidence to support it, since you evidently disagree, it is on you to provide evidence to support your position.


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## Challenger (Dec 7, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...



OK

Standard of living in Israel - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Israeli settlement - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


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## SAYIT (Dec 7, 2014)

Challenger said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...



Camel crap. Nothing you have posted supports your claim that "Zionist Israel and the CIA" created Hamas:

Hamas - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


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## rhodescholar (Dec 7, 2014)

[QUOTE="Challenger, post: 10302096, member: 49704"
Israeli settlement - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia [/QUOTE]

Sorry cu-t, but the west bank is disputed, not occupied.  When I see other comparable situations handled in the same manner as this one, THEN I might accept a different point of view.  Israel was attacked, won the war - so they keep the land.

Back on topic, turd, when are you going to address the OP?  When are scumbags like you going to place any pressure on hamas?  Or on the world to remove the cancerous, fucking trash fake regime of iran from this earth for all of the wars/terrorism it is responsible for?


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## theliq (Dec 7, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > teddyearp said:
> ...


I have a positive track record with the Palestinians and Israelis...as I have lived amongst them.......I need not elaborate.....You are a Jonny-come-lately and TRASH...........your comment that I am Anti-Israeli is BUNK......I voice my opinion as I wish most of the time, I am fair and balanced...But I sometimes get it wrong....and am the first to apologies.............I believe in a free and peaceful Israel and Palestine of course..............As for Hamas they were sponsored by Israel.....so your point is ????????............Teddyot always remember if you talk SHIT you eventually become SHIT.....your myopic uttering on this forum are like you a bore.

Viva Palestine,Viva Israel..........what do you believe in Teddyot ?????????


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## theliq (Dec 7, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...


Of course they did,you need to be educated...What the fcuk is it like to live as you do....carrying Bullshit around in your Prufrocked Head all the time.....Shit that is no life at all


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## theliq (Dec 7, 2014)

rhodescholar said:


> [QUOTE="Challenger, post: 10302096, member: 49704"
> Israeli settlement - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



Sorry cu-t, but the west bank is disputed, not occupied.  When I see other comparable situations handled in the same manner as this one, THEN I might accept a different point of view.  Israel was attacked, won the war - so they keep the land.

Back on topic, turd, when are you going to address the OP?  When are scumbags like you going to place any pressure on hamas?  Or on the world to remove the cancerous, fucking trash fake regime of iran from this earth for all of the wars/terrorism it is responsible for?[/QUOTE]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

theliq
Schoularrrr
Your opinion as usual is fake and turdish to say the least.


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## theliq (Dec 7, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > So, basically no outrage by the Pro-Pals on how Hamas treats its own . . . . .
> ...


Backbone I think you mean't..........skidip Boyo


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## SAYIT (Dec 7, 2014)

theliq said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



Cut the "I love Jooos" crap, Princess.
I keep hearing you Nazi types trying to make that camel crap stick to the wall but it continues to slide right off. Hamas was established as a social/charitable organization that cared for those underserved by Arafat's gov't. Many gov'ts, NGOs and individuals supported that Hamas on humanitarian grounds but that wouldn't show up on the radar of a Nazi propagandist like you. The Hamas we see today is a far cry from the Hamas of old but that distinction is one you either can't make or refuse to because it just doesn't serve your obvious hate for Jooos.


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## toastman (Dec 7, 2014)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



Wow, you're calling Sayit uneducated because she believes Israel didn't create Hamas?? I think you should look in the mirror Steve,,,


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## SAYIT (Dec 7, 2014)

toastman said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...



Do I post or look like a 'she'?     
And while I appreciate it, there is no need to defend me from our village idiot ... every board needs one and TheMoron makes a fine pet.


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## SAYIT (Dec 7, 2014)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



You've had ample opportunity to prove your charge that the US and Israel armed Hamas but you have failed miserably ... as usual. None of your sources make or validate your bogus claim, Princess. So what kind of person lies as you do? Certainly no one with the "positive track record" you CLAIM to have with Israelis.


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## toastman (Dec 7, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



Oh, I thought Sayit was an Israeli name. My bad.


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## SAYIT (Dec 7, 2014)

toastman said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



No harm, no foul. SAYIT is from my old screen name at AOL ... SayItAintSo.


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## theliq (Dec 7, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > teddyearp said:
> ...


Your Joooos sounds like you are dribbling at the mouth.......and a bit mad.........You detest Palestinians but I support both.....as long as it's fair......you are an idiot if you think it was a charitable act by Israel......for charitable Hamas work(at least now you acknowledge Israel gave Hamas Arms+Cash)but of course it was for the overthrow of Arafat...Tell me,what CHARITY NEEDS WEAPONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!because I'am fcuked if I know.....and neither does anyone else........Your posts are shown to colleages and they think you are as MAD AS A HATTER


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## theliq (Dec 7, 2014)

toastman said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...


I don't need to Toastie because the said confused lady,has admitted that Israel supplied Hamas Weapons and Cash for !!!!!!!!Charitable Works"!!!!!!!!!

Come on Toastie keep up to speed.......otherwise you look stupid...which you are not.steve


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## theliq (Dec 7, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...


O but I have,seems you are confused poor thing,not taken your meds today?if not take them now


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## theliq (Dec 7, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > teddyearp said:
> ...


You established them poor old thing,but they decided to use your cash and guns but decided your interest rate was far too high and decided to use another scource of money...........Nazi types is more your TYPE the way you speak.....but certainly not mine.....just another CHEAP ONE LINER of yours much like the OBSEQUIOUS ......ANTI_SEMETIC...you are being exposed as the fraud you are deary


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## theliq (Dec 7, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...


It's well documented,which I gave Toastie last week..........so stop trying to be clever.......I don't keep repeating myself(3 times on this)because I like to believe you are not all Zionist Trolls but in your case Troll On...........I will always defeat your limited prose because I can...Always.


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## theliq (Dec 7, 2014)

..





toastman said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


Try "TIYAS" = Little Stout Jewish Aunty

Glad I could be of help Toastie,with the Hebrew for you...steve....Fcuk I'm Good


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## SAYIT (Dec 7, 2014)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
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Except I don't detest those hapless Palestinians and you'll have no more success proving that bit of drivel than you did proving Israel and the US armed Hamas. The Palestinians have been useful pawns of those who benefit from the conflict - like Hamas - and of useful idiots (like you) who are used by those who benefit from your obvious hate for Jooos.


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## SAYIT (Dec 7, 2014)

theliq said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



What confused lady did that? I have read nothing from anyone admitting that "Israel supplied Hamas Weapons and Cash for !!!!!!!!Charitable Works!!!!!" (whatever that drunken stupidity means)


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## SAYIT (Dec 7, 2014)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
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> > theliq said:
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Still have nothing which validates your hateful silliness, Princess?
Why am I not surprised?


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## SAYIT (Dec 7, 2014)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



You still have failed to prove either Israel or the US supplied Hamas with weapons and in their incubation years Hamas built mosques, clubs, schools, and a library in Gaza. It isn't like you are unaware of the truth so the question would be why do you continue to lie but there's no point asking you ... the answer is obvious.


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## RoccoR (Dec 7, 2014)

et al,

To be honest, I don't quite understand the argument.

I don't understand the claim that Israel or the US created HAMAS.  On what basis is this claim made?  Is there some sort of evidence or probable cause?  What is the basis?

v/r
R


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 7, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...


It is my understanding that Israel allowed Hamas to build quality of life infrastructures like charities, clinics, etc. but supplying weapons...I don't think so.


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## RoccoR (Dec 8, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Yes, there are such thing to help and assist in terms of the quality of life.  It is multi-level and multi-faceted in terms of the aid and support it supplies.  



P F Tinmore said:


> It is my understanding that Israel allowed Hamas to build quality of life infrastructures like charities, clinics, etc. but supplying weapons...I don't think so.


*(COMMENT)*

By multi-level, I mean it appears to be both Israeli national level support projects, and unit level (IDF) support endeavors programs.  There is also direct and indirect support to NGOs and some UN activities by Israel volunteer groups and international mechanisms.  There is also such a thing as the IDF Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT), which is similar to our Civil Affairs programs.

By multi-faceted, I mean that there is an entire array of contributions made:  food and grain, medication, medical supplies and mobile hospital facilities, heavy duty diesel, gasoline --- and some reconstruction assistance --- etc.  

But to my knowledge, there is no program or project sanctioned pertaining to weaponry; except those sanctioned for law enforcement purposes. Most (not all) of the imported contraband weapons used to strike Israel were provided by Iranian sources --- and some Egyptian sources; as they have already publically acknowledged. 

Most Respectfully,
R


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## Phoenall (Dec 8, 2014)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...





 Firstly the author of this Wiki article has been banned from wiki for disruptive editing and abuse of administrators trust. So not a reliable source.

 Secondly the author of the second wiki article is a Pro Palestinian and not believable, also a participant of wikiproject Palestine.

So neither is non partisan, unless you want to try abdul's trick of claiming they are source documents............


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## Challenger (Dec 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



...and suddenly you have an intimate knowledge of the internal workings of Wikipedia...hmm. 

Eng37

Care to substantiate those allegations?


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## SAYIT (Dec 8, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
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You got this one right, GP.
Your understanding reflects the fact that early Hamas (Mujama al-Islamiya) was a social org committed to Palestinians underserved by the PLO. As such it was justifiably aided financially by many, including Israel who rightly recognized the charity and good works. There is NO EVIDENCE that Israel or the US ever armed Hamas, as theliq falsely insists.


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## montelatici (Dec 8, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> et al,
> 
> To be honest, I don't quite understand the argument.
> 
> ...



From the Wall Street Journal:

"*How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas"
*
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847


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## Phoenall (Dec 8, 2014)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
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 Yes I can all you do is do a search of the article on wiki and that do a search of the originating author .

 Here are the steps.

 1) go to the page and look at the top right corner and click view history

 2) Look to the left and find oldest

 3) click on oldest

 4) click on the bottom entry

 5) this give the details of the originating author

6) click originating author and you get the details


 So the first link was by a banned author the second link by a pro Palestinian. If you have time you can go through each amendment and see who has done what. Remember that wiki is not really a valid source of information as anyone can write articles without producing any proof of their claims.


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## Phoenall (Dec 8, 2014)

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > et al,
> ...


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## RoccoR (Dec 8, 2014)

montelatici, et al,

I think you are taking this out of context.  The article says:

"Instead of trying to curb Gaza's Islamists from the outset, says Mr. Cohen, Israel for years tolerated and, in some cases, encouraged them as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and its dominant faction, Yasser Arafat's Fatah."​
In the 1980's --- the Israelis were tolerant of any Islamic Group that might be an acceptable alternative.  HAMAS _(an acronym for Islamic Resistance Movement)_ was one of several Islamist groups arising as an unintentional consequence after the First Intifada uprising --- spreading out of the Jabalia Refugee Camp --- against Israeli occupation of the Gaza Strip and West Bank.  



montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > et al,
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

No matter what the Israelis would have done, no matter what course of action they chose, there would have been an emergence of one hostile group or another --- if not HAMAS.  It was a militant component of the Islamic Revivalist Organization associated with the Muslim Brotherhood (Egypt).  After concluding the Oslo Accords, several organizations withdrew from the PLO. This included HAMAS and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ).  It appears that none of the strategies to effectively contain radicalization of the Islamic Revival as Development actually were productive.  The basis of this article is that the Israeli effect was in fact counterproductive but not a seed or catalyst for the growth of Islamic Radical Groups (such as HAMAS).  That would have come anyway; regardless of Israeli or other western action.  

Internationally and regionally, both stable Arab/Muslim Nations and the Western World is sort-of thankful to the Israelis for the containment and isolation of these threats to regional peace and security. 

Most Respectfully,
R


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## montelatici (Dec 8, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> montelatici, et al,
> 
> I think you are taking this out of context.  The article says:
> 
> ...



I provided the WSJ text verbatim. * "How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas"*

You can send a letter to the editor telling them they have it all wrong.


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## SAYIT (Dec 8, 2014)

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici, et al,
> ...



I'm certain they know their headline was hyperbolic and that the article did not support the headline. Gotta sell newspapers, yanno.


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## montelatici (Dec 8, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
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So, the Wall Street Journal prints hyperbolic headlines that completely contradict their articles?


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## SAYIT (Dec 8, 2014)

montelatici said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
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> > montelatici said:
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Now you are being disingenuous (at best). I specifically said the headline is not supported by the article and was obviously intended to sell papers. It has you all foamy but the article does not even attempt to prove that Israel created Hamas and it doesn't. Do you have anything which does?


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## montelatici (Dec 8, 2014)




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## montelatici (Dec 8, 2014)

*February 12, 2007 Issue
Copyright © 2007 The American Conservative*


Making Enemies

How Israel helped to create Hamas

Making Enemies The American Conservative


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## SAYIT (Dec 8, 2014)

montelatici said:


> From the Wall Street Journal:
> "*How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas"*[/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> ...


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## TemplarKormac (Dec 8, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Since the ruling Israeli regime consists of child killing scumbags, why don't the Israel Firsters ever complain about it.



Perhaps you didn't read teddy's thread where Israel is aggressively investigating those incidents?


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## SAYIT (Dec 8, 2014)

montelatici said:


> *February 12, 2007 Issue
> Copyright © 2007 The American Conservative*
> 
> 
> ...


 
Again the article does not support the headline. The author states "Indeed, in the 1970s and 80s, Israel played a not insignificant role in encouraging Hamas’s emergence." Once again I remind you that encouraging the charitable, humanitarian version of Hamas does not equate to creating Hamas. I'm certain those who did create Hamas (Hamas - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia) would behead you for suggesting that Israel created their organization.


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## SAYIT (Dec 8, 2014)

montelatici said:


>



Ron Paul says "If you look at the history..." but provides no source for his "history." As he was "standing in opposition" he most likely was employing BS to support his POV, hoping much as you do that no one knows or checks his "facts." I have provided you with historical data which, not surprisingly, contradicts your opinion.


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## RoccoR (Dec 9, 2014)

_et al,_

I have to agree with our friend "SAYIT."



SAYIT said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > *February 12, 2007 Issue
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

Israel, and others, may have played a part in setting the conditions for the emergence of HAMAS.  It is a far cry from "creating" HAMAS.  And we don't know that if, Israel and other countries, had done something different --- that HAMAS would not had been created anyway.  HAMAS gained popular support from the general population through its charitable works (Examples:  hospitals and clinics, education programs, utilities and libraries) and not as a result of its terrorist activities.  It evolved.  And while it may seem obvious today, nearly half a century ago --- it was not so obvious the direction it would take.

As for Ron Paul, he has his own libertarian vision and take on the issues.  

Most Respectfully,
R


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## montelatici (Dec 9, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> _et al,_
> 
> I have to agree with our friend "SAYIT."
> 
> ...



"As for Ron Paul, he has his own libertarian vision and take on the issues. "

Now WTF is that supposed to mean?  What is "his own libertarian" vision?  How is it different from another's libertarian vision?  His vision is just as well thought out as anyone's.  He is no dummy, he is a physician and a member of congress.


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## RoccoR (Dec 9, 2014)

montelatici,  _et al,_

I didn't actually say anything bad about Ron Paul.



montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > "As for Ron Paul, he has his own libertarian vision and take on the issues. "
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

Having said that, I'm sure you know that all politicians don't think alike _(if you can call what Members of Congress do as thinking)_.  Even though Ron Paul was the 1988 Libertarian Candidate for President, not all mainstream Libertarians agree with him.  For an example of just one of many differences _(that you asked for)_ please see the: 
*An open letter from Libertarian Party Chair Nicholas Sarwark to Sen. Rand Paul*

v/r
R


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## Humanity (Dec 9, 2014)

Interesting debate between "creation" and "emergence"....

Is it too close to call?

No, obviously not....

A chicken egg is created but a chick emerges but ONLY under the right conditions...

The chicken will lay an egg virtually every day, in the right conditions, but only if the egg is fertilised will a chick emerge... That requires a 3rd party, the cockrel.

Action and reaction...

Hamas, well, as far as I remember was formed in the late 1980's as a spin off of the Muslim Brotherhood...

Yes, Israel played a very important role in the emergence of Hamas, but Hamas was also created for a 'reason'... Primarily Israel...

So, it could be said that Israel 'created' Hamas 'indirectly'... But 'directly' promoted its emergence...

Either way, like Israel exists, Hamas exists...

Arguing over whether Hamas was a creation or an emergence is pretty insignificant now...

What needs to be found is a way to either remove Hamas from power, democratically, OR demilitarise Hamas.


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## theliq (Dec 10, 2014)

I





montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > et al,
> ...


Thanks Monte,for giving the Bozo's on here some more information on how the Jews initiated Hamas.....for the Sayits of this world your total ignorance is only bettered by your Anti-Semitic Palestinian SILLINESS.....but spew on,NO ONE IS LISTENING TO YOUR VINDICTIVE ZIONIST TERRORIST CHUNDER anymore.

I am theliq.....Sentinel against Zionist Bullshit..I Promote Good Jews and there are Millions of them,but Zionist NO WAY,I never Support Terrorist Organizations..........Crikey your minds are Prufrock


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## theliq (Dec 10, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
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Sorry Tinnie,the $ bought arms en al..............Israel thought they could overthrow Arafat ........ in this instant they failed so they murdered him later


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## theliq (Dec 10, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > *February 12, 2007 Issue
> ...


Wrong again


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## theliq (Dec 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...


You always try to "CRY TOUGH".........Cry Baby......I win again.....You and the Possee Loooooose


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## theliq (Dec 10, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > *February 12, 2007 Issue
> ...


A not insignificant role............which means Significant Role............if you were around when Jesus "Walked on Water" you would have been one of those who reported "That Jesus couldn't SWIM"........You have become a Joke........"NOT INSIGNIFICENT ROLE" has reached Number 1 in the USMB Top 10 of Inane One Liners......Well Done........now that is something I could never achieve.........LOL ..steve


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## theliq (Dec 10, 2014)

Humanity said:


> Interesting debate between "creation" and "emergence"....
> 
> Is it too close to call?
> 
> ...


The same could have been said pre 1948 and since re the Zionists.......but we live in 2015 and we have to work for a settlement....which appears even more distant as the hard-liners are sitting on the top of the piles..........respectively


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## SAYIT (Dec 11, 2014)

theliq said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...


Camel crap from your (pin)head.


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## SAYIT (Dec 11, 2014)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



They would behead you also, Princess.


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## SAYIT (Dec 11, 2014)

Humanity said:


> Interesting debate between "creation" and "emergence"....
> So, it could be said that Israel 'created' Hamas 'indirectly'... But 'directly' promoted its emergence...
> Arguing over whether Hamas was a creation or an emergence is pretty insignificant now....



So what you are saying is if one spins the facts in a certain way, Israel can be blamed for anything one's little heart desires. Got it.
I do agree, however, that the creation vs. emergence issue is pretty insignificant but try to tell that to people like theliq. He's been busy _for weeks_ insisting Israel created and armed Hamas.


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## SAYIT (Dec 11, 2014)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



In other words you admit you have NOTHING to support your bogus contention that Israel "created" Hamas. Thanks for playing.


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## Humanity (Dec 11, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting debate between "creation" and "emergence"....
> ...



Well, no thats NOT what I am saying, thats what YOU said! Clearly!

Creation v emergence is pretty insignificant when you look at the situation, yes. Does it need to be argued about? No, not really...

Hamas DID come about, with the assistance of Israel, that is fact.

The rest is history...

Sp, what of the future?!?!


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## theliq (Dec 11, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...


You try Say but you are Sad Say....keep deluding that poor head........steve......we feel for you


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## SAYIT (Dec 11, 2014)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



We? Exactly how many lying Nazi fuktards are in that little pinhead of yours, Princess?


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## theliq (Dec 11, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...


Israel loved Hamas but the relationship was never going to bloom..........but they did have a relationship,which you find impossible to comprehend,even when the facts Slap you across your face ........ and give you a Blood Nose.steven


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## theliq (Dec 11, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...


It's fuckards Say,not fuktards,anyhow ......learn to love Say,it will change your life..steven


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## toastman (Dec 11, 2014)

So do you finally admit that you lied when you said that Israel created Hamas?


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## SAYIT (Dec 11, 2014)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



Your own sources state that Israel "tolerated" and, at times, "encouraged" the early, charitable version of Hamas. Only a lying Nazi fool would continue to beat the bogus drum you have for the past few weeks. Hell, even peeps on your side of the fence have gently attempted to move you away from your ledge but you just aren't bright (or honest) enough to get their message. Oh, well.


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## SAYIT (Dec 11, 2014)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



It's whatever I say it is, Fuktard, but I do admit I feel no love for lying Nazi scummies like you and no reason to believe anyone should. So answer the question:  exactly how many lying Nazi fuktards are in that pinhead of yours, Princess?


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## SAYIT (Dec 11, 2014)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



See if you can find any post in which I deny the nature of that relationship. Now see if you can find any post in which you manage to tell the truth about it, ya lying Nazi scummy.


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## SAYIT (Dec 11, 2014)

toastman said:


> So do you finally admit that you lied when you said that Israel created Hamas?


 
Theliq went even further than that, claiming Israel and the US armed Hamas. That poor Nazi skank does nothing but lie.


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## theliq (Dec 12, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...


O Say,it's time for you to reflect during this important time of the year,a time of Love and Understanding......let us hope that in the New Year you are Happy,I hope so...........It is time to see Clearly Now.

It is time for Peace,for my Jewish and Palestinian brethren.That is my desire.......To You and all the Singers and Players on USMB....have a Safe and Happy Christmas......steven


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