# Demonization of Putin is one of the biggest threats to American national security,Stephen Cohen.



## Stratford57

Stephen Cohen, Interview to Russian Channel One, Jan. 2018:

Demonization of Putin is one of the biggest threats to our [American] national security. For the next 1 or 2 years after Putin first came to power (as a Prime Minister in December 1999) American press was treating him very positively. _NYT even wrote he was a Democrat, who wants reforms and would be better than Yeltsin because he was younger and healthier._ When I [S.C.] asked them: “Why are you sure he’s a Democrat?” do you know what they said? They said: ”Because he’s from Yeltsin. Everything’s gonna be ok.”

They were just shocked when Putin started saying: “Russia is a sovereign country”, ”Russia has her own policy”, “We want to be partners with US but it’s a two-way street”. _A well known NYT journalist literally wrote: “I’m disappointed and shocked that Putin has not become a sober Yeltsin.”_

Now all the masks have been taken off.

Unfortunately, we have a short memory and have already forgotten that *after 9/11 Putin was the first who called Bush* and said: “That was terrible. How can we help you guys?”

Then US went to war in Afghanistan to destroy Taliban and *Putin helped US to get the victory in this war with minimum losses more than anybody else, even more than any NATO country.*

*Putin also shared his intelligence data with USA* and so on and on. He was even criticized in Russia, so for a while he looked more like  being pro-American leader, not even a bit anti-American.

During Gorbachev’s times American political class started treating Russia as a satellite country who was supposed to follow the orders from USA not only in foreign policy but in internal affairs as well. _After Yeltsin left and Putin came the people who dealt with foreign affairs in USA were absolutely sure they would continue to do whatever they were doing with Russia for the next 10 years at least._ And suddenly they figured out they were wrong and that’s why all those controversies started: with Georgia, Ukraine, etc.

For those who know Russian:
Выпуск программы "Воскресное время" в 21:00  11 февраля 2018 года. Новости. Первый канал
starts at 1 hour 8 minutes and ends at 1 hour 14 minutes of the program ^.

Stephen F. Cohen - Wikipedia


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## Igrok_

Russian federal media a by far the most propagandistic over the world... Don't watch it. You will be fooled you don't know where and when.


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## Stratford57

Igrok_ said:


> Russian federal media a by far the most propagandistic over the world... Don't watch it. You will be fooled you don't know where and when.


They have been quoting Stephen Cohen. Word by word. And he's not Russian, he's American. Besides, everything he said was true. So, the source doesn't matter.

Also, American Media keeps spreading bunch of alleged stories about Russia. It was nice to listen to a smart person who could differ sh*t from Shinola for change.


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## Igrok_

Stratford57 said:


> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russian federal media a by far the most propagandistic over the world... Don't watch it. You will be fooled you don't know where and when.
> 
> 
> 
> They have been quoting Stephen Cohen. Word by word. And he's not Russian, he's American. Besides, everything he said was true. So, the source doesn't matter.
> 
> Also, American Media keeps spreading bunch of alleged stories about Russia. It was nice to listen to a smart person who could differ sh*t from Shinola for change.
Click to expand...

Russian government media invite only persons they assured in. They call them "experts" and make appropriate atmosphere around. Also they try to ask specific questions to provoke "experts" to anwer in favorable way... Once this person may say something wrong, he will not be invited anymore and his interview will be cutted.

Don't watch it. In Russia there are few reliable media. Here they are:
kommersant.ru
vedomosti.ru
forbes.ru

Can't recall anymore...


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## Stratford57

Igrok_ said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russian federal media a by far the most propagandistic over the world... Don't watch it. You will be fooled you don't know where and when.
> 
> 
> 
> They have been quoting Stephen Cohen. Word by word. And he's not Russian, he's American. Besides, everything he said was true. So, the source doesn't matter.
> 
> Also, American Media keeps spreading bunch of alleged stories about Russia. It was nice to listen to a smart person who could differ sh*t from Shinola for change.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russian government media invite only persons they assured in. They call them "experts" and make appropriate atmosphere around. Also they try to ask specific questions to provoke "experts" to anwer in favorable way... Once this person may say something wrong, he will not be invited anymore and his interview will be cutted.
> 
> Don't watch it. In Russia there are few reliable media. Here they are:
> kommersant.ru
> vedomosti.ru
> forbes.ru
> 
> Can't recall anymore...
Click to expand...

As far as I know Stephen Cohen is a well known and respectable person in USA.

Stephen F. Cohen - Wikipedia


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## JakeStarkey

Cohen is a Russian stooge.


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## Stratford57

JakeStarkey said:


> Cohen is a Russian stooge.


... says a brainwashed Soros stooge.


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## JakeStarkey

Stratford luvs sum Putin and Trump.

You all are losing traction, while your righteous foes are picking up steam.


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## Igrok_

JakeStarkey said:


> Putin and Trump.


at the moment Trump made nothing in russian favor, only harm. Why? Because in US president is like a showman in order to entertain voters. Real politics is being ruled from others, which are not elected ever.


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## Stratford57

JakeStarkey said:


> Stratford luvs sum Putin and Trump.
> 
> You all are losing traction, while your righteous foes are picking up steam.


Putin and Trump may be the only two people in the world who together are able to free your country and the whole world from Deep State's. That's why both have been so wildly demonized in Deep State's loyal Media. And you are buying all that sh*t.

The worst enemy of your country is not Russia, it's Deep State and you liberals under Deep State control who keep destroying your own country and the rest of the world. The sooner you realize it, the better it will be for your country and all the people.


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## Baron

Stratford57 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cohen is a Russian stooge.
> 
> 
> 
> ... says a brainwashed Soros stooge.
Click to expand...


or better Deep State's stooge


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## Tehon

Igrok_ said:


> Russian federal media a by far the most propagandistic over the world... Don't watch it. You will be fooled you don't know where and when.


Whatever the Russian media learned of propaganda techniques, they most assuredly learned from the US system of propaganda techniques.

The consistent message is not to put faith in popular media systems. Always look with an eye of distrust regardless of the country one resides. It is the mouthpiece of the ruling class.


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## JakeStarkey

The real msg is never to trust authoritarians like Putin.

All Putin defenders are 'deep state' stooges.


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## Stratford57

Tehon said:


> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russian federal media a by far the most propagandistic over the world... Don't watch it. You will be fooled you don't know where and when.
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever the Russian media learned of propaganda techniques, they most assuredly learned from the US system of propaganda techniques.
> 
> The consistent message is not to put faith in popular media systems. Always look with an eye of distrust regardless of the country one resides. It is the mouthpiece of the ruling class.
Click to expand...

Actually, I have a feeling American Media learned how to brainwash the people from the USSR. But I've been living in the USSR, they were trying to brainwash us, but we all knew it and were laughing at it in our kitchens.

What I am watching now in USA is several times worse. Since 2008 when Georgia attacked South Ossetia and American Media started blaming Russia for that (showing _correct _pictures of aggression, but of *Georgian *aggression in S. Ossetia, not Russian!), then same thing happened (twice) with Ukraine. Lately the anti-Russian propaganda got really wild and now reminds me Hollywood soap opera about  "bad Russians", Trump/Russian collusion (=delusion) so on and on. Also nobody cares about presenting a single proof for that but many Americans believe it reagrdless.

To me it looks like somebody has been trying to build up huge hate for Russia using "free" Media constantly and on daily basis. And that's both dangerous and unfair. Actually, constantly lying Media (not Russians, not anybody from outside the country) seems to be American's worst enemy. The most scary thing is that this enemy is _interior._


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## rightwinger

Putin is a brutal murderer of the Russian tradition


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## Stratford57

rightwinger said:


> Putin is a brutal murderer of the Russian tradition


Another myth told you by your "free" Media owned by Soros.


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## rightwinger

It is sad that Russia was given such an opportunity to abandon years of oppression and embrace Western Democracy

The west opened their arms and offered free trade opportunities.  

But Russia could not help but revert to their old ways personified by Putin


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## rightwinger

Stratford57 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a brutal murderer of the Russian tradition
> 
> 
> 
> Another myth told you by your "free" Media owned by Soros.
> 
> View attachment 178754
Click to expand...

Who?


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## JakeStarkey

The Russians had the opportunity to create a vibrant democratic republic, but Putin trained them like dogs and led them back to eat their own vomit.  The Russians are training their American alt right stooges to do the same in the US.


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## rightwinger

JakeStarkey said:


> The Russians had the opportunity to create a vibrant democratic republic, but Putin trained them like dogs and led them back to eat their own vomit.  The Russians are training their American alt right stooges to do the same in the US.



It seems Russians are most comfortable being oppressed 
Like an animal raised in a cage.....
When offered freedom, they return to the cage


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## Tehon

rightwinger said:


> It is sad that Russia was given such an opportunity to abandon years of oppression and embrace Western Democracy
> 
> The west opened their arms and offered free trade opportunities.
> 
> But Russia could not help but revert to their old ways personified by Putin


It is sad that following the collapse of the Soviet, Russia was descended on by a bunch of wild pack animals representing Western commercial interests. 

Putin had little choice but defend Russia's sovereignty.


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## Eaglewings

Stratford57 said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russian federal media a by far the most propagandistic over the world... Don't watch it. You will be fooled you don't know where and when.
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever the Russian media learned of propaganda techniques, they most assuredly learned from the US system of propaganda techniques.
> 
> The consistent message is not to put faith in popular media systems. Always look with an eye of distrust regardless of the country one resides. It is the mouthpiece of the ruling class.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, I have a feeling American Media learned how to brainwash the people from the USSR. But I've been living in the USSR, they were trying to brainwash us, but we all knew it and were laughing at it in our kitchens.
> 
> What I am watching now in USA is several times worse. Since 2008 when Georgia attacked South Ossetia and American Media started blaming Russia for that (showing _correct _pictures of aggression, but of *Georgian *aggression in S. Ossetia, not Russian!), then same thing happened (twice) with Ukraine. Lately the anti-Russian propaganda got really wild and now reminds me Hollywood soap opera about  "bad Russians", Trump/Russian collusion (=delusion) so on and on. Also nobody cares about presenting a single proof for that but many Americans believe it reagrdless.
> 
> To me it looks like somebody has been trying to build up huge hate for Russia using "free" Media constantly and on daily basis. And that's both dangerous and unfair. Actually, constantly lying Media (not Russians, not anybody from outside the country) seems to be American's worst enemy. The most scary thing is that this enemy is _interior._
Click to expand...



So people like you supported Putin over the Democrats after the election, which was bad..And now that Putin is busted for hacking us you are supporting what a good man Putin is over our own media.
What the hell is wrong with you.. Putin attacked us stealing identities to change votes on a government website..pretending to be an American.

You are siding with this man over your own American people..what a complete ignorant nut job that should learn more about exactly what he did before writing a stupid thread like this..
You are making a fool out of yourself.


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## Tehon

Eaglewings said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russian federal media a by far the most propagandistic over the world... Don't watch it. You will be fooled you don't know where and when.
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever the Russian media learned of propaganda techniques, they most assuredly learned from the US system of propaganda techniques.
> 
> The consistent message is not to put faith in popular media systems. Always look with an eye of distrust regardless of the country one resides. It is the mouthpiece of the ruling class.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, I have a feeling American Media learned how to brainwash the people from the USSR. But I've been living in the USSR, they were trying to brainwash us, but we all knew it and were laughing at it in our kitchens.
> 
> What I am watching now in USA is several times worse. Since 2008 when Georgia attacked South Ossetia and American Media started blaming Russia for that (showing _correct _pictures of aggression, but of *Georgian *aggression in S. Ossetia, not Russian!), then same thing happened (twice) with Ukraine. Lately the anti-Russian propaganda got really wild and now reminds me Hollywood soap opera about  "bad Russians", Trump/Russian collusion (=delusion) so on and on. Also nobody cares about presenting a single proof for that but many Americans believe it reagrdless.
> 
> To me it looks like somebody has been trying to build up huge hate for Russia using "free" Media constantly and on daily basis. And that's both dangerous and unfair. Actually, constantly lying Media (not Russians, not anybody from outside the country) seems to be American's worst enemy. The most scary thing is that this enemy is _interior._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So people like you supported Putin over the Democrats after the election, which was bad..And now that Putin is busted for hacking us you are supporting what a good man Putin is over our own media.
> What the hell is wrong with you.. Putin attacked us stealing identities to change votes on a government website..pretending to be an American.
> 
> You are siding with this man over your own American people..what a complete ignorant nut job that should learn more about exactly what he did before writing a stupid thread like this..
> You are making a fool out of yourself.
Click to expand...

Stratford is not American, fool.


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## Tehon

Eaglewings said:


> And now that Putin is busted for hacking us you are supporting what a good man Putin is over our own media.
> What the hell is wrong with you.. Putin attacked us stealing identities to change votes on a government website..pretending to be an American


You have no supporting evidence to justify such assertions.

But you have justified the OP.


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## Stratford57

rightwinger said:


> It is sad that Russia was given such an opportunity to abandon years of oppression and embrace Western Democracy
> 
> The west opened their arms and offered free trade opportunities.
> 
> But Russia could not help but revert to their old ways personified by Putin


Russia has tasted your Western "democracy" in 90-s and spit it out. The vast majority of Russians do not need your Western "values", they have their own great traditions and values they observe and respect which are over 10 ages old (Russia has been baptized in year 988, when USA has not been on the map yet). And it's just great that their leader (who seems to be a true leader, not another Deep State puppet!) has been guarding Russian sovereignty, history, values and traditions from all kinds of foreign dirty hands. And that's another thing why Deep State has been demonizing him for.


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## Tehon

Eaglewings said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> And now that Putin is busted for hacking us you are supporting what a good man Putin is over our own media.
> What the hell is wrong with you.. Putin attacked us stealing identities to change votes on a government website..pretending to be an American
> 
> 
> 
> You have no supporting evidence to justify such assertions.
> 
> But you have justified the OP.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit..there is no reason to support what the Russians did here in America..what Putin did was in my opinion a terrorist attack.
Click to expand...

Putin isn't under indictment.


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## Eaglewings

Tehon said:


> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> And now that Putin is busted for hacking us you are supporting what a good man Putin is over our own media.
> What the hell is wrong with you.. Putin attacked us stealing identities to change votes on a government website..pretending to be an American
> 
> 
> 
> You have no supporting evidence to justify such assertions.
> 
> But you have justified the OP.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit..there is no reason to support what the Russians did here in America..what Putin did was in my opinion a terrorist attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin isn't under indictment.
Click to expand...


Because his buddy in chief Trump pretends that Puttin didn't do anything, many people in America don't even know what he did.


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## kiwiman127

So, even though Putin/Russia, attacks our democratic electoral process, has tried to divide America and now is involved with attacking our troops in Syria by proxy, we are suppose to approve of Trump and you Trumpsters kissing Putin's ass?
==================================================
_Yevgeniy Prigozhin is a man of many trades.
A failed cross-country skier from St. Petersburg, Russia, who once spent nine years in prison for robbery, Prigozhin rose from running a hot dog stand in the 1990s to owning an upscale restaurant frequented by Russian President Vladimir Putin and other members of the nation’s political elite.
Most recently, the man nicknamed Putin’s Chef was indicted in the United States by special counsel Robert Mueller for running a troll farm that conducted information warfare against the U.S. and attempted to influence the outcome of the 2016 presidential election. Prigozhin also allegedly runs a business that profits off oil and gas deals in Syrian territories seized from the Islamic State militant group (ISIS).
And now, reports also claim Prigozhin is the Putin ally who allegedly controls Russian mercenaries working in Syria. He was responsible for ordering a recent attack by Russian mercenaries and pro-government Syrian forces on U.S. troops stationed in Syria.
Prigozhin is known to have close ties with Putin, and it is unlikely that he works without the permission of Russia’s most powerful man.
The mercenaries involved in the attack work for a company called Wagner, which employs Russian nationals and military veterans—many of whom are believed to have fought in the ongoing conflict in Ukraine. Wagner also provides foot soldiers who help fight ISIS in order to secure access to oil and gas fields that Prigozhin profits from._
Putin’s chef ordered Russian mercenaries to attack U.S. troops in Syria, report claims
Also;
Russia’s Attack on U.S. Troops
https://nypost.com/2018/02/13/russians-attacked-american-troops-on-putins-orders/


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## Tehon

Eaglewings said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> And now that Putin is busted for hacking us you are supporting what a good man Putin is over our own media.
> What the hell is wrong with you.. Putin attacked us stealing identities to change votes on a government website..pretending to be an American
> 
> 
> 
> You have no supporting evidence to justify such assertions.
> 
> But you have justified the OP.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit..there is no reason to support what the Russians did here in America..what Putin did was in my opinion a terrorist attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin isn't under indictment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because his buddy in chief Trump pretends that Puttin didn't do anything, many people in America don't even know what he did.
Click to expand...

Many people don't know that Putin did anything because there has been nothing provided to suggest that he did.

You, on the other hand, take it on faith.

I'm no Trumpkin. I try to keep things in perspective. I understand the desire of the government to want to demonize Putin due to the geopolitics involved. We see the same tactics repeated over and again. Who can forget how we were manipulated into the war in Iraq.


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## Stratford57

Eaglewings said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> And now that Putin is busted for hacking us you are supporting what a good man Putin is over our own media.
> What the hell is wrong with you.. Putin attacked us stealing identities to change votes on a government website..pretending to be an American
> 
> 
> 
> You have no supporting evidence to justify such assertions.
> 
> But you have justified the OP.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit..there is no reason to support what the Russians did here in America..what Putin did was in my opinion a terrorist attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin isn't under indictment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because his buddy in chief Trump pretends that Puttin didn't do anything, many people in America don't even know what he did.
Click to expand...

It's another myth which Deep State Media has been actively spreading. Trump and Putin are NOT buddies, never have been, and never met before Trump became a POTUS.
Besides, during more than a year of Trump's presidency he hasn't done even one little thing in Putin's favor.


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## JakeStarkey

The "deep" action is the pathetic attempt of Russia to overthrow America.


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## Eaglewings

Stratford57 said:


> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> And now that Putin is busted for hacking us you are supporting what a good man Putin is over our own media.
> What the hell is wrong with you.. Putin attacked us stealing identities to change votes on a government website..pretending to be an American
> 
> 
> 
> You have no supporting evidence to justify such assertions.
> 
> But you have justified the OP.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit..there is no reason to support what the Russians did here in America..what Putin did was in my opinion a terrorist attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin isn't under indictment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because his buddy in chief Trump pretends that Puttin didn't do anything, many people in America don't even know what he did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's another myth which Deep State Media has been actively spreading. Trump and Putin are NOT buddies, never have been, and never met before Trump became a POTUS.
> Besides, during more than a year of Trump's presidency he hasn't done even one little thing in Putin's favor.
Click to expand...


Trump has supported Putin over the American democrats, that alone is dangerous. So far there is proof that the Trump campaign has had contact indirectly with Putin.. 
Sorry about thinking you are American, not used to other Countries writing so well on the forum.. I have seen you around for a long time.


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## Stratford57

JakeStarkey said:


> The "deep" action is the pathetic attempt of Russia to overthrow America.


So far, I see it vice versa: American Deep State has been trying to overthrow Putin. They already overthrew the legitimate president of my home country of Ukraine and brought their puppets to power. But Ukraine is just a pawn in their dirty geopolitical game against Russia.


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## JakeStarkey

Putin should be overthrown.

Russia has no legitimate reason to conduct cyberwarfare, but if it continues to do so, the day will come soon when the electricity goes off in Russia until it submits, executes Russia, and kneels to the West.


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## Tilly

Eaglewings said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> And now that Putin is busted for hacking us you are supporting what a good man Putin is over our own media.
> What the hell is wrong with you.. Putin attacked us stealing identities to change votes on a government website..pretending to be an American
> 
> 
> 
> You have no supporting evidence to justify such assertions.
> 
> But you have justified the OP.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit..there is no reason to support what the Russians did here in America..what Putin did was in my opinion a terrorist attack.
Click to expand...

So the US is terrorising much of the world and has been for decades? Not very patriotic of you


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## Stratford57

Eaglewings said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
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> Eaglewings said:
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> Tehon said:
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> Eaglewings said:
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> 
> 
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> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have no supporting evidence to justify such assertions.
> 
> But you have justified the OP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit..there is no reason to support what the Russians did here in America..what Putin did was in my opinion a terrorist attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin isn't under indictment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because his buddy in chief Trump pretends that Puttin didn't do anything, many people in America don't even know what he did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's another myth which Deep State Media has been actively spreading. Trump and Putin are NOT buddies, never have been, and never met before Trump became a POTUS.
> Besides, during more than a year of Trump's presidency he hasn't done even one little thing in Putin's favor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump has supported Putin over the American democrats, that alone is dangerous. So far there is proof that the Trump campaign has had contact indirectly with Putin..
> Sorry about thinking you are American, not used to other Countries writing so well on the forum.. I have seen you around for a long time.
Click to expand...

First of all, thanks for complementing my English, I'm actually, surprised. A year or two ago the people on the forum were mocking my English, Tehon  can confirm it. I really tried to improve it.

As for all those "proves" that somebody contacted somebody, it's another BS. The contacts to discuss how to work together in future are not a crime and have been used by all politicians of all countries for ages.


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## Eaglewings

Tehon said:


> Eaglewings said:
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> Tehon said:
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> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> And now that Putin is busted for hacking us you are supporting what a good man Putin is over our own media.
> What the hell is wrong with you.. Putin attacked us stealing identities to change votes on a government website..pretending to be an American
> 
> 
> 
> You have no supporting evidence to justify such assertions.
> 
> But you have justified the OP.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit..there is no reason to support what the Russians did here in America..what Putin did was in my opinion a terrorist attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin isn't under indictment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because his buddy in chief Trump pretends that Puttin didn't do anything, many people in America don't even know what he did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Many people don't know that Putin did anything because there has been nothing provided to suggest that he did.
> 
> You, on the other hand, take it on faith.
> 
> I'm no Trumpkin. I try to keep things in perspective. I understand the desire of the government to want to demonize Putin due to the geopolitics involved. We see the same tactics repeated over and again. Who can forget how we were manipulated into the war in Iraq.
Click to expand...


Why don't you read up on the 12 Russians who are under indictment for hacking America..


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## Eaglewings

Stratford57 said:


> Eaglewings said:
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> Stratford57 said:
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> Eaglewings said:
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> Tehon said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit..there is no reason to support what the Russians did here in America..what Putin did was in my opinion a terrorist attack.
> 
> 
> 
> Putin isn't under indictment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because his buddy in chief Trump pretends that Puttin didn't do anything, many people in America don't even know what he did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's another myth which Deep State Media has been actively spreading. Trump and Putin are NOT buddies, never have been, and never met before Trump became a POTUS.
> Besides, during more than a year of Trump's presidency he hasn't done even one little thing in Putin's favor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump has supported Putin over the American democrats, that alone is dangerous. So far there is proof that the Trump campaign has had contact indirectly with Putin..
> Sorry about thinking you are American, not used to other Countries writing so well on the forum.. I have seen you around for a long time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> First of all, thanks for complementing my English, I'm actually, surprised. A year or two ago the people on the forum were mocking my English, Tehon  can confirm it. I really tried to improve it.
> 
> As for all those "proves" that somebody contacted somebody, it's another BS. The contacts to discuss how to work together in future are not a crime and have been used by all politicians of all countries for ages.
Click to expand...


It has already been proven that Trump Jr. met with a Russian lawyer, and that Jeff Sessions lied about meeting with Russians, and was busted for lying again for saying he didn't talk about the campaign.

WaPo: Sessions, Russian talked Trump campaign, per intel  - CNNPolitics
Washington Post: Breaking News, World, US, DC News & Analysis


----------



## Stratford57

JakeStarkey said:


> Putin should be overthrown.
> 
> Russia has no legitimate reason to conduct cyberwarfare, but if it continues to do so, the day will come soon when the electricity goes off in Russia until it submits, executes Russia, and kneels to the West.


That's the true face of American democracy: overthrowing legitimate presidents and regime changes. We DO NOT need that "democracy", thank you.


----------



## Stratford57

Eaglewings said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin isn't under indictment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because his buddy in chief Trump pretends that Puttin didn't do anything, many people in America don't even know what he did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's another myth which Deep State Media has been actively spreading. Trump and Putin are NOT buddies, never have been, and never met before Trump became a POTUS.
> Besides, during more than a year of Trump's presidency he hasn't done even one little thing in Putin's favor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump has supported Putin over the American democrats, that alone is dangerous. So far there is proof that the Trump campaign has had contact indirectly with Putin..
> Sorry about thinking you are American, not used to other Countries writing so well on the forum.. I have seen you around for a long time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> First of all, thanks for complementing my English, I'm actually, surprised. A year or two ago the people on the forum were mocking my English, Tehon  can confirm it. I really tried to improve it.
> 
> As for all those "proves" that somebody contacted somebody, it's another BS. The contacts to discuss how to work together in future are not a crime and have been used by all politicians of all countries for ages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has already been proven that Trump Jr. met with a Russian lawyer, and that Jeff Sessions lied about meeting with Russians, and was busted for lying again for saying he didn't talk about the campaign.
> 
> WaPo: Sessions, Russian talked Trump campaign, per intel  - CNNPolitics
> Washington Post: Breaking News, World, US, DC News & Analysis
Click to expand...

Those stories belong to Hollywood, not to politics.


----------



## Stratford57

Eaglewings said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have no supporting evidence to justify such assertions.
> 
> But you have justified the OP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit..there is no reason to support what the Russians did here in America..what Putin did was in my opinion a terrorist attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin isn't under indictment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because his buddy in chief Trump pretends that Puttin didn't do anything, many people in America don't even know what he did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Many people don't know that Putin did anything because there has been nothing provided to suggest that he did.
> 
> You, on the other hand, take it on faith.
> 
> I'm no Trumpkin. I try to keep things in perspective. I understand the desire of the government to want to demonize Putin due to the geopolitics involved. We see the same tactics repeated over and again. Who can forget how we were manipulated into the war in Iraq.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why don't you read up on the 12 Russians who are under indictment for hacking America..
Click to expand...

Feb 17

"It turns our the U.S. Department of Justice believes there were thirteen of them," Zakharova wrote. "Thirteen individuals interfering in the U.S. election? *Thirteen individuals versus the budgets of the security agencies that are measured in billions of dollars?* Versus the intelligence, counterintelligence and top-notch technologies? Isn't it absurd? Well, that's the US political reality nowadays, you know."

Russian Foreign Ministry dismisses US charges with election meddling as absurdity

People, who believe all those alleged stories about "bad Russians", aren't you tired from being manipulated?


----------



## JakeStarkey

Stratford57 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin should be overthrown.
> 
> Russia has no legitimate reason to conduct cyberwarfare, but if it continues to do so, the day will come soon when the electricity goes off in Russia until it submits, executes Russia, and kneels to the West.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the true face of American democracy: overthrowing legitimate presidents and regime changes. We DO NOT need that "democracy", thank you.
Click to expand...

Russia will be shut down if it does not stop, period.


----------



## Stratford57

JakeStarkey said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin should be overthrown.
> 
> Russia has no legitimate reason to conduct cyberwarfare, but if it continues to do so, the day will come soon when the electricity goes off in Russia until it submits, executes Russia, and kneels to the West.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the true face of American democracy: overthrowing legitimate presidents and regime changes. We DO NOT need that "democracy", thank you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia will be shut down if it does not stop, period.
Click to expand...

Before doing something idiotic like that ^ I'd like to remind you some historical facts: Russia has been able to finish all the wars started against her by other countries in the capitals of those foolish countries.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Stratford57 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin should be overthrown.
> 
> Russia has no legitimate reason to conduct cyberwarfare, but if it continues to do so, the day will come soon when the electricity goes off in Russia until it submits, executes Russia, and kneels to the West.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the true face of American democracy: overthrowing legitimate presidents and regime changes. We DO NOT need that "democracy", thank you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia will be shut down if it does not stop, period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before doing something idiotic like that ^ I'd like to remind you some historical facts: Russia has been able to finish all the wars started against her by other countries in the capitals of those foolish countries.
Click to expand...

 Flat out lie.


----------



## Stratford57

Eaglewings said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have no supporting evidence to justify such assertions.
> 
> But you have justified the OP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit..there is no reason to support what the Russians did here in America..what Putin did was in my opinion a terrorist attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin isn't under indictment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because his buddy in chief Trump pretends that Puttin didn't do anything, many people in America don't even know what he did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Many people don't know that Putin did anything because there has been nothing provided to suggest that he did.
> 
> You, on the other hand, take it on faith.
> 
> I'm no Trumpkin. I try to keep things in perspective. I understand the desire of the government to want to demonize Putin due to the geopolitics involved. We see the same tactics repeated over and again. Who can forget how we were manipulated into the war in Iraq.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why don't you read up on the 12 Russians who are under indictment for hacking America..
Click to expand...

For all those Americans who still think "Russia interfered in our elections".

Robert Bridge, an American writer and journalist:

Even before Donald Trump set foot in the White House, loveless liberals were busy pushing the narrative that Russia meddled in the elections. But could this claim be - just maybe - a dastardly ploy to hide some unsavory truths?

*The FISA fail*

*Clinton’s email scandal*

*Operation Sink Sanders*

*Clinton cheated in debates*

*Regime change*

Given Hillary Clinton’s past track record for advocating on behalf of military adventures, most memorably in Iraq and Libya, the tall tale of Trump-Russia collusion appears to have been a desperate effort on the part of the establishment to get their candidate into office and the military industrial complex into another war.

*Impeach Trump*

*Clinton Foundation ‘pay to play’*

*Nunes Memo, Part 2*

Bear scare! Why the US Democrats desperately need a Russian bogeyman


----------



## rightwinger

Stratford57 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that Russia was given such an opportunity to abandon years of oppression and embrace Western Democracy
> 
> The west opened their arms and offered free trade opportunities.
> 
> But Russia could not help but revert to their old ways personified by Putin
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has tasted your Western "democracy" in 90-s and spit it out. The vast majority of Russians do not need your Western "values", they have their own great traditions and values they observe and respect which are over 10 ages old (Russia has been baptized in year 988, when USA has not been on the map yet). And it's just great that their leader (who seems to be a true leader, not another Deep State puppet!) has been guarding Russian sovereignty, history, values and traditions from all kinds of foreign dirty hands. And that's another thing why Deep State has been demonizing him for.
Click to expand...

I feel sorry for you guys.......you had so much opportunity and you pissed it away

Compare Russia to China in 1990. Russia had so much more offered them and settled for authoritarianism.  China was destitute an$ restructured their whole economy to become dominate around the globe

Russia is stil the same shithole it was 30 years ago.


----------



## rightwinger

Stratford57 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin should be overthrown.
> 
> Russia has no legitimate reason to conduct cyberwarfare, but if it continues to do so, the day will come soon when the electricity goes off in Russia until it submits, executes Russia, and kneels to the West.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the true face of American democracy: overthrowing legitimate presidents and regime changes. We DO NOT need that "democracy", thank you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia will be shut down if it does not stop, period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before doing something idiotic like that ^ I'd like to remind you some historical facts: Russia has been able to finish all the wars started against her by other countries in the capitals of those foolish countries.
Click to expand...

Napoleon invaded you......Russia never took Paris
What happened against Japan in 1905?
How about WWI when you guys just quit?
Afghanistan was a bust as you packed up and went home


----------



## Stratford57

rightwinger said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin should be overthrown.
> 
> Russia has no legitimate reason to conduct cyberwarfare, but if it continues to do so, the day will come soon when the electricity goes off in Russia until it submits, executes Russia, and kneels to the West.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the true face of American democracy: overthrowing legitimate presidents and regime changes. We DO NOT need that "democracy", thank you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia will be shut down if it does not stop, period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before doing something idiotic like that ^ I'd like to remind you some historical facts: Russia has been able to finish all the wars started against her by other countries in the capitals of those foolish countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Napoleon invaded you......Russia never took Paris
> What happened against Japan in 1905?
> How about WWI when you guys just quit?
> Afghanistan was a bust as you packed up and went home
Click to expand...

Is Afghanistan any better after years of your presence there? It turned into a real sh*thole. In fact, every country where you have brought your "democracy" is turned into a sh*thole. Including my own home country of Ukraine. Thanks a lot, American Deep State and its puppets.


----------



## rightwinger

Stratford57 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin should be overthrown.
> 
> Russia has no legitimate reason to conduct cyberwarfare, but if it continues to do so, the day will come soon when the electricity goes off in Russia until it submits, executes Russia, and kneels to the West.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the true face of American democracy: overthrowing legitimate presidents and regime changes. We DO NOT need that "democracy", thank you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia will be shut down if it does not stop, period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before doing something idiotic like that ^ I'd like to remind you some historical facts: Russia has been able to finish all the wars started against her by other countries in the capitals of those foolish countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Napoleon invaded you......Russia never took Paris
> What happened against Japan in 1905?
> How about WWI when you guys just quit?
> Afghanistan was a bust as you packed up and went home
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is Afghanistan any better after years of your presence there? It turned into a real sh*thole. In fact, every country where you have brought your "democracy" is turned into a sh*thole. Including my own home country of Ukraine. Thanks a lot, American Deep State and its puppets.
Click to expand...

Wait a minute skippy

You claim Russia finished in the capitals of countries you fought

Other than Berlin. ........name one


----------



## Tehon

Eaglewings said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have no supporting evidence to justify such assertions.
> 
> But you have justified the OP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit..there is no reason to support what the Russians did here in America..what Putin did was in my opinion a terrorist attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin isn't under indictment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because his buddy in chief Trump pretends that Puttin didn't do anything, many people in America don't even know what he did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Many people don't know that Putin did anything because there has been nothing provided to suggest that he did.
> 
> You, on the other hand, take it on faith.
> 
> I'm no Trumpkin. I try to keep things in perspective. I understand the desire of the government to want to demonize Putin due to the geopolitics involved. We see the same tactics repeated over and again. Who can forget how we were manipulated into the war in Iraq.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why don't you read up on the 12 Russians who are under indictment for hacking America..
Click to expand...

I have, that's how I know the number of Russians under indictment to be 13.


----------



## Stratford57

rightwinger said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's the true face of American democracy: overthrowing legitimate presidents and regime changes. We DO NOT need that "democracy", thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> Russia will be shut down if it does not stop, period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before doing something idiotic like that ^ I'd like to remind you some historical facts: Russia has been able to finish all the wars started against her by other countries in the capitals of those foolish countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Napoleon invaded you......Russia never took Paris
> What happened against Japan in 1905?
> How about WWI when you guys just quit?
> Afghanistan was a bust as you packed up and went home
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is Afghanistan any better after years of your presence there? It turned into a real sh*thole. In fact, every country where you have brought your "democracy" is turned into a sh*thole. Including my own home country of Ukraine. Thanks a lot, American Deep State and its puppets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wait a minute skippy
> 
> You claim Russia finished in the capitals of countries you fought
> 
> Other than Berlin. ........name one
Click to expand...

Paris and Stockholm , for example.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Napoleon burned Moscow.  The Japanese kicked the Russians ass in 1905.  The Germans kicked the Russians ass in WWI.  The USSR collapsed into the weak Russia of today.

Anyone who believe rt.com is a dupe or a willing stooge.


----------



## rightwinger

Russia had so many opportunities in 1990 to compete on western markets

They pissed them all away.......You chose Putin and now you have a third rate economy


----------



## beagle9

JakeStarkey said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin should be overthrown.
> 
> Russia has no legitimate reason to conduct cyberwarfare, but if it continues to do so, the day will come soon when the electricity goes off in Russia until it submits, executes Russia, and kneels to the West.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the true face of American democracy: overthrowing legitimate presidents and regime changes. We DO NOT need that "democracy", thank you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia will be shut down if it does not stop, period.
Click to expand...

 You heard it here folks - Unhinged Liberalism at it's finest.


----------



## rightwinger

Stratford57 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russia will be shut down if it does not stop, period.
> 
> 
> 
> Before doing something idiotic like that ^ I'd like to remind you some historical facts: Russia has been able to finish all the wars started against her by other countries in the capitals of those foolish countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Napoleon invaded you......Russia never took Paris
> What happened against Japan in 1905?
> How about WWI when you guys just quit?
> Afghanistan was a bust as you packed up and went home
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is Afghanistan any better after years of your presence there? It turned into a real sh*thole. In fact, every country where you have brought your "democracy" is turned into a sh*thole. Including my own home country of Ukraine. Thanks a lot, American Deep State and its puppets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wait a minute skippy
> 
> You claim Russia finished in the capitals of countries you fought
> 
> Other than Berlin. ........name one
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Paris and Stockholm , for example.
Click to expand...

When did Russia take Paris?

That was Hitler


----------



## JakeStarkey

Afghanistan is no more messed up than when it drove Russia out.


----------



## beagle9

JakeStarkey said:


> Napoleon burned Moscow.  The Japanese kicked the Russians ass in 1905.  The Germans kicked the Russians ass in WWI.  The USSR collapsed into the weak Russia of today.
> 
> Anyone who believe rt.com is a dupe or a willing stooge.


. All that and the Russians are still intact... Sounds to me like no one kicked the Russians ace. They have prevailed in every case.


----------



## Meathead

JakeStarkey said:


> Afghanistan is no more messed up than when it drove Russia out.


Do youi assholes think that we should start a new Cold War or a civil war because the most corrupt person to ever run for POTUS was defeated?


----------



## Meathead

JakeStarkey said:


> Afghanistan is no more messed up than when it drove Russia out.


Flakey, you are truly clueless.


----------



## Tehon

rightwinger said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that Russia was given such an opportunity to abandon years of oppression and embrace Western Democracy
> 
> The west opened their arms and offered free trade opportunities.
> 
> But Russia could not help but revert to their old ways personified by Putin
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has tasted your Western "democracy" in 90-s and spit it out. The vast majority of Russians do not need your Western "values", they have their own great traditions and values they observe and respect which are over 10 ages old (Russia has been baptized in year 988, when USA has not been on the map yet). And it's just great that their leader (who seems to be a true leader, not another Deep State puppet!) has been guarding Russian sovereignty, history, values and traditions from all kinds of foreign dirty hands. And that's another thing why Deep State has been demonizing him for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I feel sorry for you guys.......you had so much opportunity and you pissed it away
> 
> Compare Russia to China in 1990. Russia had so much more offered them and settled for authoritarianism.  China was destitute an$ restructured their whole economy to become dominate around the globe
> 
> Russia is stil the same shithole it was 30 years ago.
Click to expand...

The US wasn't interested in cooperating with Russia for the labor benefits. 

The US was interested in looting Russia's natural resources.


----------



## rightwinger

It is sad that the citizens of Russia are so weak that they accept the corruption and shoddy economy that Putin has given them

They had so much opportunity when the USSR fell. Rather than exploit their weakness....the west offered up trade opportunities 

Russia should be a major economic player by now.......look at China

THAT is what Putin has given you


----------



## Meathead

Tehon said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that Russia was given such an opportunity to abandon years of oppression and embrace Western Democracy
> 
> The west opened their arms and offered free trade opportunities.
> 
> But Russia could not help but revert to their old ways personified by Putin
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has tasted your Western "democracy" in 90-s and spit it out. The vast majority of Russians do not need your Western "values", they have their own great traditions and values they observe and respect which are over 10 ages old (Russia has been baptized in year 988, when USA has not been on the map yet). And it's just great that their leader (who seems to be a true leader, not another Deep State puppet!) has been guarding Russian sovereignty, history, values and traditions from all kinds of foreign dirty hands. And that's another thing why Deep State has been demonizing him for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I feel sorry for you guys.......you had so much opportunity and you pissed it away
> 
> Compare Russia to China in 1990. Russia had so much more offered them and settled for authoritarianism.  China was destitute an$ restructured their whole economy to become dominate around the globe
> 
> Russia is stil the same shithole it was 30 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US wasn't interested in cooperating with Russia for the labor benefits.
> 
> The US was interested in looting Russia's natural resources.
Click to expand...

Kissov.


----------



## Meathead

rightwinger said:


> It is sad that the citizens of Russia are so weak that they accept the corruption and shoddy economy that Putin has given them
> 
> They had so much opportunity when the USSR fell. Rather than exploit their weakness....the west offered up trade opportunities
> 
> Russia should be a major economic player by now.......look at China
> 
> THAT is what Putin has given you


Belive it or not, Russia is a major economic player and unfortunately the world's second most powerful country militarily. Your butt hurt over the Beast losing an election is no reason to start another Cold War, much less a real war.


----------



## rightwinger

Tehon said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that Russia was given such an opportunity to abandon years of oppression and embrace Western Democracy
> 
> The west opened their arms and offered free trade opportunities.
> 
> But Russia could not help but revert to their old ways personified by Putin
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has tasted your Western "democracy" in 90-s and spit it out. The vast majority of Russians do not need your Western "values", they have their own great traditions and values they observe and respect which are over 10 ages old (Russia has been baptized in year 988, when USA has not been on the map yet). And it's just great that their leader (who seems to be a true leader, not another Deep State puppet!) has been guarding Russian sovereignty, history, values and traditions from all kinds of foreign dirty hands. And that's another thing why Deep State has been demonizing him for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I feel sorry for you guys.......you had so much opportunity and you pissed it away
> 
> Compare Russia to China in 1990. Russia had so much more offered them and settled for authoritarianism.  China was destitute an$ restructured their whole economy to become dominate around the globe
> 
> Russia is stil the same shithole it was 30 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US wasn't interested in cooperating with Russia for the labor benefits.
> 
> The US was interested in looting Russia's natural resources.
Click to expand...

The US could have exploited a weakened Russia

Instead we opened up economic opportunities and free trade

You guys blew it Comrade........Blame Putin


----------



## rightwinger

Meathead said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that the citizens of Russia are so weak that they accept the corruption and shoddy economy that Putin has given them
> 
> They had so much opportunity when the USSR fell. Rather than exploit their weakness....the west offered up trade opportunities
> 
> Russia should be a major economic player by now.......look at China
> 
> THAT is what Putin has given you
> 
> 
> 
> Belive it or not, Russia is a major economic player and unfortunately the world's second most powerful country militarily. Your butt hurt over the Beast losing an election is no reason to start another Cold War, much less a real war.
Click to expand...


For its population and resources....Russia is incredibly weak both economically and militarily


----------



## Stratford57

rightwinger said:


> Russia had so many opportunities in 1990 to compete on western markets
> 
> They pissed them all away.......You chose Putin and now you have a third rate economy


In spite of all Western sanctions and info-wars (= spreading lies);
1. February 24. S&P Global Ratings has raised its credit ratings for Russia to 'BBB-' from 'BB+' with a stable outlook, the company said in a statement.
S&P raises Russia’s ratings to ‘BBB-’ with stable outlook

2. Bloomberg:
China and Russia have fully derailed the post-Cold War movement toward U.S.-led global integration.

*American foreign policy has reached a historic inflection point*
America's New World Order Is Officially Dead

3.  As Bloomberg writes today, "the Israelis and Turks, the Egyptians and Jordanians - *they’re all beating a path to the Kremlin in the hope that Vladimir Putin, the new master of the Middle East*, *can secure their interests and fix their problems*."
"Putin Is The New Master Of The Middle East"

4. Russia's Gazprom Topples U.S.' ExxonMobil for 1st Place: S&P Global Platts Top 250 Global Energy Company Rankings
Russia's Gazprom Topples U.S.' ExxonMobil for 1st Place: S&P Global Platts Top 250 Global Energy Company Rankings®

5. Most Russians support both the internal and foreign policies of the current administration, *according to a poll conducted by US company the Pew Research Center.*

The report says that 87 percent of the Russian public are confident their president is making the right decisions on foreign policy, with just 12 percent believing the opposite to be true.
Russians overwhelmingly back Putin policies – US pollster

6. The US is being pushed out of the grain market as Russia's bumper wheat harvest has dragged down prices to record lows

_“We literally can’t compete on the price of wheat in those markets compared to Russia,”_ said the trade group’s spokesman Steve Mercer, as quoted by the WSJ.
Russia squeezing US out as agricultural superpower

WSJ:
The 83 million tons of wheat Russian farmers are forecast to have reaped this season has cemented the country’s resurgence as an agricultural superpower and ratcheted up the pressure on U.S. farmers, who sowed fewer acres of wheat in 2017 than ever before.
Russia’s Resurgent Wheat Farmers Squeeze U.S.

7. India and Pakistan put aside their long-running tensions, as they were officially confirmed as members of the increasingly influential Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), during a summit in Kazakhstan capital Astana. SCO now includes almost* half of the all world population*.
Then there were 8: Eurasian powerhouse SCO expands after India & Pakistan join

8. Russia strikes over $15bn worth of deals despite sanctions at SPIEF 2016


And so on and on...

Outgoing US President *Obama made a big mistake calling Russia a “regional power,”* the European Commission chief said in an interview. Europe, instead, should treat Russia as “one big entity and a proud nation,” and there is a lot to learn about it.

_“The EU occupies 5.5 million square kilometers, Russia takes up 17.5 million. Russia must be treated as one big entity, as a proud nation,”_ *Jean-Claude Juncker, President of the European Commission, the EU executive body,* told Euronews .
Obama calling Russia 'regional power' was big error – EC head Juncker


----------



## beagle9

rightwinger said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that the citizens of Russia are so weak that they accept the corruption and shoddy economy that Putin has given them
> 
> They had so much opportunity when the USSR fell. Rather than exploit their weakness....the west offered up trade opportunities
> 
> Russia should be a major economic player by now.......look at China
> 
> THAT is what Putin has given you
> 
> 
> 
> Belive it or not, Russia is a major economic player and unfortunately the world's second most powerful country militarily. Your butt hurt over the Beast losing an election is no reason to start another Cold War, much less a real war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For its population and resources....Russia is incredibly weak both economically and militarily
Click to expand...

. Well go on and try them like the Nazi's did, and lets just see how dam weak they are, and find out just how dumb you are.


----------



## Meathead

rightwinger said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that the citizens of Russia are so weak that they accept the corruption and shoddy economy that Putin has given them
> 
> They had so much opportunity when the USSR fell. Rather than exploit their weakness....the west offered up trade opportunities
> 
> Russia should be a major economic player by now.......look at China
> 
> THAT is what Putin has given you
> 
> 
> 
> Belive it or not, Russia is a major economic player and unfortunately the world's second most powerful country militarily. Your butt hurt over the Beast losing an election is no reason to start another Cold War, much less a real war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For its population and resources....Russia is incredibly weak both economically and militarily
Click to expand...

Socialism sucks, eh? Don't kid yourself, Russia is not the weakling Obama painted it to be.


----------



## Stratford57

rightwinger said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that Russia was given such an opportunity to abandon years of oppression and embrace Western Democracy
> 
> The west opened their arms and offered free trade opportunities.
> 
> But Russia could not help but revert to their old ways personified by Putin
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has tasted your Western "democracy" in 90-s and spit it out. The vast majority of Russians do not need your Western "values", they have their own great traditions and values they observe and respect which are over 10 ages old (Russia has been baptized in year 988, when USA has not been on the map yet). And it's just great that their leader (who seems to be a true leader, not another Deep State puppet!) has been guarding Russian sovereignty, history, values and traditions from all kinds of foreign dirty hands. And that's another thing why Deep State has been demonizing him for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I feel sorry for you guys.......you had so much opportunity and you pissed it away
> 
> Compare Russia to China in 1990. Russia had so much more offered them and settled for authoritarianism.  China was destitute an$ restructured their whole economy to become dominate around the globe
> 
> Russia is stil the same shithole it was 30 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US wasn't interested in cooperating with Russia for the labor benefits.
> 
> The US was interested in looting Russia's natural resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US could have exploited a weakened Russia
> 
> Instead we opened up economic opportunities and free trade
> 
> You guys blew it Comrade........Blame Putin
Click to expand...


Remember a parable? God to a man: "*I'll give you everything you want, but your neighbor will get twice more than yourself*. So, make a wish". And the man said: "Pluck my eye out."

That’s exactly what anti-Russian Americans are doing now, because a fair partnership with Russia would benefit BOTH countries. You've been robbing not only Russia, but yourselves as well.

Tamir Halperin (Poland): “They [ Dems] are using “Russia the monster” as a tool to attract as much compassion as possible. *They simply need an artificial enemy to get more support inside their system.”*


----------



## beagle9

Meathead said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that the citizens of Russia are so weak that they accept the corruption and shoddy economy that Putin has given them
> 
> They had so much opportunity when the USSR fell. Rather than exploit their weakness....the west offered up trade opportunities
> 
> Russia should be a major economic player by now.......look at China
> 
> THAT is what Putin has given you
> 
> 
> 
> Belive it or not, Russia is a major economic player and unfortunately the world's second most powerful country militarily. Your butt hurt over the Beast losing an election is no reason to start another Cold War, much less a real war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For its population and resources....Russia is incredibly weak both economically and militarily
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Socialism sucks, eh? Don't kid yourself, Russia is not the weakling Obama painted it to be.
Click to expand...

 .Yep, they got a button too, and by the accounts of these lefties they ought to be in great fear of that button, but they aren't ????? Hmmmm.


----------



## Stratford57

beagle9 said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that the citizens of Russia are so weak that they accept the corruption and shoddy economy that Putin has given them
> 
> They had so much opportunity when the USSR fell. Rather than exploit their weakness....the west offered up trade opportunities
> 
> Russia should be a major economic player by now.......look at China
> 
> THAT is what Putin has given you
> 
> 
> 
> Belive it or not, Russia is a major economic player and unfortunately the world's second most powerful country militarily. Your butt hurt over the Beast losing an election is no reason to start another Cold War, much less a real war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For its population and resources....Russia is incredibly weak both economically and militarily
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Socialism sucks, eh? Don't kid yourself, Russia is not the weakling Obama painted it to be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .Yep, they got a button too, and by the accounts of these lefties they ought to be in great fear of that button, but they aren't ????? Hmmmm.
Click to expand...

Russian humorist Michail Zadornov came up with a cute joke a few years ago when Obama was a president: "Should we be afraid of a black hand in the White House pushing the Red button? "


----------



## Tehon

rightwinger said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that Russia was given such an opportunity to abandon years of oppression and embrace Western Democracy
> 
> The west opened their arms and offered free trade opportunities.
> 
> But Russia could not help but revert to their old ways personified by Putin
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has tasted your Western "democracy" in 90-s and spit it out. The vast majority of Russians do not need your Western "values", they have their own great traditions and values they observe and respect which are over 10 ages old (Russia has been baptized in year 988, when USA has not been on the map yet). And it's just great that their leader (who seems to be a true leader, not another Deep State puppet!) has been guarding Russian sovereignty, history, values and traditions from all kinds of foreign dirty hands. And that's another thing why Deep State has been demonizing him for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I feel sorry for you guys.......you had so much opportunity and you pissed it away
> 
> Compare Russia to China in 1990. Russia had so much more offered them and settled for authoritarianism.  China was destitute an$ restructured their whole economy to become dominate around the globe
> 
> Russia is stil the same shithole it was 30 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US wasn't interested in cooperating with Russia for the labor benefits.
> 
> The US was interested in looting Russia's natural resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US could have exploited a weakened Russia
> 
> Instead we opened up economic opportunities and free trade
> 
> You guys blew it Comrade........Blame Putin
Click to expand...

Opening economic opportunities......American style.

The Looting Of Russia Was Just A Warm Up: Meet Your Future Leaders | HuffPost

Bain had plenty of company in the wholesale looting of Russia, which was abetted by major Western banks and intellectuals — some of whom wound up in jail, most of whom wound up fantastically rich. When it comes down to it, the story of Bain and its Western colleagues in post-Soviet Russia isn’t one of anomalous behavior brought about by too much vodka and the bad influence of some nasty Russian mob figures. No, what Western companies did in Russia — did _to_ Russia — is more or less what they’ve done to the United States and Europe over the past few decades. It’s just that in Russia they did it basically in a weekend.


----------



## beagle9

Stratford57 said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that the citizens of Russia are so weak that they accept the corruption and shoddy economy that Putin has given them
> 
> They had so much opportunity when the USSR fell. Rather than exploit their weakness....the west offered up trade opportunities
> 
> Russia should be a major economic player by now.......look at China
> 
> THAT is what Putin has given you
> 
> 
> 
> Belive it or not, Russia is a major economic player and unfortunately the world's second most powerful country militarily. Your butt hurt over the Beast losing an election is no reason to start another Cold War, much less a real war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For its population and resources....Russia is incredibly weak both economically and militarily
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Socialism sucks, eh? Don't kid yourself, Russia is not the weakling Obama painted it to be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .Yep, they got a button too, and by the accounts of these lefties they ought to be in great fear of that button, but they aren't ????? Hmmmm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russian humorist Michail Zadornov came up with a cute joke a few years ago when Obama was a president: "Should we be afraid of a black hand in the White House pushing the Red button? "
Click to expand...

. Must have constructed that joke by listening to the leftist liberals spewing their hatred towards anything white... LOL


----------



## rightwinger

beagle9 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that the citizens of Russia are so weak that they accept the corruption and shoddy economy that Putin has given them
> 
> They had so much opportunity when the USSR fell. Rather than exploit their weakness....the west offered up trade opportunities
> 
> Russia should be a major economic player by now.......look at China
> 
> THAT is what Putin has given you
> 
> 
> 
> Belive it or not, Russia is a major economic player and unfortunately the world's second most powerful country militarily. Your butt hurt over the Beast losing an election is no reason to start another Cold War, much less a real war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For its population and resources....Russia is incredibly weak both economically and militarily
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> . Well go on and try them like the Nazi's did, and lets just see how dam weak they are, and find out just how dumb you are.
Click to expand...

We saw the vaunted Soviet military after the USSR fell

Obsolete, poorly maintained equipment. Poorly trained soldiers with poor morale. A Navy that can barely leave port

Today’s Russia has much of the same equipment


----------



## rightwinger

Tehon said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that Russia was given such an opportunity to abandon years of oppression and embrace Western Democracy
> 
> The west opened their arms and offered free trade opportunities.
> 
> But Russia could not help but revert to their old ways personified by Putin
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has tasted your Western "democracy" in 90-s and spit it out. The vast majority of Russians do not need your Western "values", they have their own great traditions and values they observe and respect which are over 10 ages old (Russia has been baptized in year 988, when USA has not been on the map yet). And it's just great that their leader (who seems to be a true leader, not another Deep State puppet!) has been guarding Russian sovereignty, history, values and traditions from all kinds of foreign dirty hands. And that's another thing why Deep State has been demonizing him for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I feel sorry for you guys.......you had so much opportunity and you pissed it away
> 
> Compare Russia to China in 1990. Russia had so much more offered them and settled for authoritarianism.  China was destitute an$ restructured their whole economy to become dominate around the globe
> 
> Russia is stil the same shithole it was 30 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US wasn't interested in cooperating with Russia for the labor benefits.
> 
> The US was interested in looting Russia's natural resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US could have exploited a weakened Russia
> 
> Instead we opened up economic opportunities and free trade
> 
> You guys blew it Comrade........Blame Putin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Opening economic opportunities......American style.
> 
> The Looting Of Russia Was Just A Warm Up: Meet Your Future Leaders | HuffPost
> 
> Bain had plenty of company in the wholesale looting of Russia, which was abetted by major Western banks and intellectuals — some of whom wound up in jail, most of whom wound up fantastically rich. When it comes down to it, the story of Bain and its Western colleagues in post-Soviet Russia isn’t one of anomalous behavior brought about by too much vodka and the bad influence of some nasty Russian mob figures. No, what Western companies did in Russia — did _to_ Russia — is more or less what they’ve done to the United States and Europe over the past few decades. It’s just that in Russia they did it basically in a weekend.
Click to expand...


You guys had endless opportunities to bring yourselves into the modern world

China did it ....

Why can’t Russia


----------



## rightwinger

Meathead said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that the citizens of Russia are so weak that they accept the corruption and shoddy economy that Putin has given them
> 
> They had so much opportunity when the USSR fell. Rather than exploit their weakness....the west offered up trade opportunities
> 
> Russia should be a major economic player by now.......look at China
> 
> THAT is what Putin has given you
> 
> 
> 
> Belive it or not, Russia is a major economic player and unfortunately the world's second most powerful country militarily. Your butt hurt over the Beast losing an election is no reason to start another Cold War, much less a real war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For its population and resources....Russia is incredibly weak both economically and militarily
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Socialism sucks, eh? Don't kid yourself, Russia is not the weakling Obama painted it to be.
Click to expand...

They are worse since Obama crippled them with sanctions and cut them off from the west

But at least they gave us Trump


----------



## Meathead

rightwinger said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has tasted your Western "democracy" in 90-s and spit it out. The vast majority of Russians do not need your Western "values", they have their own great traditions and values they observe and respect which are over 10 ages old (Russia has been baptized in year 988, when USA has not been on the map yet). And it's just great that their leader (who seems to be a true leader, not another Deep State puppet!) has been guarding Russian sovereignty, history, values and traditions from all kinds of foreign dirty hands. And that's another thing why Deep State has been demonizing him for.
> 
> 
> 
> I feel sorry for you guys.......you had so much opportunity and you pissed it away
> 
> Compare Russia to China in 1990. Russia had so much more offered them and settled for authoritarianism.  China was destitute an$ restructured their whole economy to become dominate around the globe
> 
> Russia is stil the same shithole it was 30 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US wasn't interested in cooperating with Russia for the labor benefits.
> 
> The US was interested in looting Russia's natural resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US could have exploited a weakened Russia
> 
> Instead we opened up economic opportunities and free trade
> 
> You guys blew it Comrade........Blame Putin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Opening economic opportunities......American style.
> 
> The Looting Of Russia Was Just A Warm Up: Meet Your Future Leaders | HuffPost
> 
> Bain had plenty of company in the wholesale looting of Russia, which was abetted by major Western banks and intellectuals — some of whom wound up in jail, most of whom wound up fantastically rich. When it comes down to it, the story of Bain and its Western colleagues in post-Soviet Russia isn’t one of anomalous behavior brought about by too much vodka and the bad influence of some nasty Russian mob figures. No, what Western companies did in Russia — did _to_ Russia — is more or less what they’ve done to the United States and Europe over the past few decades. It’s just that in Russia they did it basically in a weekend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You guys had endless opportunities to bring yourselves into the modern world
> 
> China did it ....
> 
> Why can’t Russia
Click to expand...

Underestimating (and overestimating) Russia's strength is a fools errand. Reagan got it right, which is one of the reasons he is a great president, Obama got it wrong, which is one of the reasons he is not.


----------



## kiwiman127

Stratford57 said:


> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> And now that Putin is busted for hacking us you are supporting what a good man Putin is over our own media.
> What the hell is wrong with you.. Putin attacked us stealing identities to change votes on a government website..pretending to be an American
> 
> 
> 
> You have no supporting evidence to justify such assertions.
> 
> But you have justified the OP.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit..there is no reason to support what the Russians did here in America..what Putin did was in my opinion a terrorist attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin isn't under indictment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because his buddy in chief Trump pretends that Puttin didn't do anything, many people in America don't even know what he did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's another myth which Deep State Media has been actively spreading. Trump and Putin are NOT buddies, never have been, and never met before Trump became a POTUS.
> Besides, during more than a year of Trump's presidency he hasn't done even one little thing in Putin's favor.
Click to expand...


Don't let facts get in your way of your bullshit.  Just keep on spreading the word, that Putin/Russia has been doing the United States nothing but favors. 
And, "Besides, during more than a year of Trump's presidency he hasn't done even one little thing in Putin's favor". Trump saying that Putin/Russian trying to influence in our election and dividing our country is a hoax, despite our intelligence agencies providing proof that it is true, isn't doing Putin any favors?
You must think people are really stupid. Sorry buddy, you are naive.


----------



## rightwinger

Meathead said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I feel sorry for you guys.......you had so much opportunity and you pissed it away
> 
> Compare Russia to China in 1990. Russia had so much more offered them and settled for authoritarianism.  China was destitute an$ restructured their whole economy to become dominate around the globe
> 
> Russia is stil the same shithole it was 30 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> The US wasn't interested in cooperating with Russia for the labor benefits.
> 
> The US was interested in looting Russia's natural resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US could have exploited a weakened Russia
> 
> Instead we opened up economic opportunities and free trade
> 
> You guys blew it Comrade........Blame Putin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Opening economic opportunities......American style.
> 
> The Looting Of Russia Was Just A Warm Up: Meet Your Future Leaders | HuffPost
> 
> Bain had plenty of company in the wholesale looting of Russia, which was abetted by major Western banks and intellectuals — some of whom wound up in jail, most of whom wound up fantastically rich. When it comes down to it, the story of Bain and its Western colleagues in post-Soviet Russia isn’t one of anomalous behavior brought about by too much vodka and the bad influence of some nasty Russian mob figures. No, what Western companies did in Russia — did _to_ Russia — is more or less what they’ve done to the United States and Europe over the past few decades. It’s just that in Russia they did it basically in a weekend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You guys had endless opportunities to bring yourselves into the modern world
> 
> China did it ....
> 
> Why can’t Russia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Underestimating (and overestimating) Russia's strength is a fools errand. Reagan got it right, which is one of the reasons he is a great president, Obama got it wrong, which is one of the reasons he is not.
Click to expand...

We saw what happened when Russia was given endless opportunities

They fucked it up and embraced Putin


----------



## Tehon

Meathead said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that Russia was given such an opportunity to abandon years of oppression and embrace Western Democracy
> 
> The west opened their arms and offered free trade opportunities.
> 
> But Russia could not help but revert to their old ways personified by Putin
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has tasted your Western "democracy" in 90-s and spit it out. The vast majority of Russians do not need your Western "values", they have their own great traditions and values they observe and respect which are over 10 ages old (Russia has been baptized in year 988, when USA has not been on the map yet). And it's just great that their leader (who seems to be a true leader, not another Deep State puppet!) has been guarding Russian sovereignty, history, values and traditions from all kinds of foreign dirty hands. And that's another thing why Deep State has been demonizing him for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I feel sorry for you guys.......you had so much opportunity and you pissed it away
> 
> Compare Russia to China in 1990. Russia had so much more offered them and settled for authoritarianism.  China was destitute an$ restructured their whole economy to become dominate around the globe
> 
> Russia is stil the same shithole it was 30 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US wasn't interested in cooperating with Russia for the labor benefits.
> 
> The US was interested in looting Russia's natural resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kissov.
Click to expand...

Kissov death


----------



## beagle9

kiwiman127 said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have no supporting evidence to justify such assertions.
> 
> But you have justified the OP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit..there is no reason to support what the Russians did here in America..what Putin did was in my opinion a terrorist attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin isn't under indictment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because his buddy in chief Trump pretends that Puttin didn't do anything, many people in America don't even know what he did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's another myth which Deep State Media has been actively spreading. Trump and Putin are NOT buddies, never have been, and never met before Trump became a POTUS.
> Besides, during more than a year of Trump's presidency he hasn't done even one little thing in Putin's favor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't let facts get in your way of your bullshit.  Just keep on spreading the word, that Putin/Russia has been doing the United States nothing but favors.
> And, "Besides, during more than a year of Trump's presidency he hasn't done even one little thing in Putin's favor". Trump saying that Putin/Russian trying to influence in our election and dividing our country is a hoax, despite our intelligence agencies providing proof that it is true, isn't doing Putin any favors?
> You must think people are really stupid. Sorry buddy, you are naive.
Click to expand...

. Your fear of election meddling by others is quite laughable, and your attitude that Americans need their little hands held when they vote so that the bear won't eat them when they go to vote is actually disrespectful and laughable all at the same time. Give the American's some bit of sanity in their everyday lives here.  Good grief.


----------



## Stratford57

kiwiman127 said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have no supporting evidence to justify such assertions.
> 
> But you have justified the OP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit..there is no reason to support what the Russians did here in America..what Putin did was in my opinion a terrorist attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin isn't under indictment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because his buddy in chief Trump pretends that Puttin didn't do anything, many people in America don't even know what he did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's another myth which Deep State Media has been actively spreading. Trump and Putin are NOT buddies, never have been, and never met before Trump became a POTUS.
> Besides, during more than a year of Trump's presidency he hasn't done even one little thing in Putin's favor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't let facts get in your way of your bullshit.  Just keep on spreading the word, that Putin/Russia has been doing the United States nothing but favors.
> And, "Besides, during more than a year of Trump's presidency he hasn't done even one little thing in Putin's favor". Trump saying that Putin/Russian trying to influence in our election and dividing our country is a hoax, despite our intelligence agencies providing proof that it is true, isn't doing Putin any favors?
> You must think people are really stupid. Sorry buddy, you are naive.
Click to expand...

Your Deep State and its loyal puppets inside your country  have been dividing your country on a hoax, not Russians. Grow up and face it.

"Don't blame the mirror if your own face is ugly," - Russian saying.


----------



## kiwiman127

beagle9 said:


> kiwiman127 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit..there is no reason to support what the Russians did here in America..what Putin did was in my opinion a terrorist attack.
> 
> 
> 
> Putin isn't under indictment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because his buddy in chief Trump pretends that Puttin didn't do anything, many people in America don't even know what he did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's another myth which Deep State Media has been actively spreading. Trump and Putin are NOT buddies, never have been, and never met before Trump became a POTUS.
> Besides, during more than a year of Trump's presidency he hasn't done even one little thing in Putin's favor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't let facts get in your way of your bullshit.  Just keep on spreading the word, that Putin/Russia has been doing the United States nothing but favors.
> And, "Besides, during more than a year of Trump's presidency he hasn't done even one little thing in Putin's favor". Trump saying that Putin/Russian trying to influence in our election and dividing our country is a hoax, despite our intelligence agencies providing proof that it is true, isn't doing Putin any favors?
> You must think people are really stupid. Sorry buddy, you are naive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> . Your fear of election meddling by others is quite laughable, and your attitude that Americans need their little hands held when they vote so that the bear won't eat them when they go to vote is actually disrespectful and laughable all at the same time. Give the American's some bit of sanity in their everyday lives here.  Good grief.
Click to expand...


Fuck off you anti-American and anti-Constitution piece of shit. Patriots from all sides of the aisle, agree with me.  It's just you easily manipulated Trumpsters, who think it's OK for Russia to attack our election process as written in the Constitution.


----------



## kiwiman127

Stratford57 said:


> kiwiman127 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit..there is no reason to support what the Russians did here in America..what Putin did was in my opinion a terrorist attack.
> 
> 
> 
> Putin isn't under indictment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because his buddy in chief Trump pretends that Puttin didn't do anything, many people in America don't even know what he did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's another myth which Deep State Media has been actively spreading. Trump and Putin are NOT buddies, never have been, and never met before Trump became a POTUS.
> Besides, during more than a year of Trump's presidency he hasn't done even one little thing in Putin's favor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't let facts get in your way of your bullshit.  Just keep on spreading the word, that Putin/Russia has been doing the United States nothing but favors.
> And, "Besides, during more than a year of Trump's presidency he hasn't done even one little thing in Putin's favor". Trump saying that Putin/Russian trying to influence in our election and dividing our country is a hoax, despite our intelligence agencies providing proof that it is true, isn't doing Putin any favors?
> You must think people are really stupid. Sorry buddy, you are naive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your Deep State and its loyal puppets inside your country  have been dividing your country on a hoax, not Russians. Grow up and face it.
> 
> "Don't blame the mirror if your own face is ugly," - Russian saying.
Click to expand...


Trump's own intelligence appointees, agree 100% that the "hoax" isn't a "hoax". The only "hoax" is claiming Russia/Putin haven't attacked our electoral process.


----------



## rightwinger

Tehon said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that Russia was given such an opportunity to abandon years of oppression and embrace Western Democracy
> 
> The west opened their arms and offered free trade opportunities.
> 
> But Russia could not help but revert to their old ways personified by Putin
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has tasted your Western "democracy" in 90-s and spit it out. The vast majority of Russians do not need your Western "values", they have their own great traditions and values they observe and respect which are over 10 ages old (Russia has been baptized in year 988, when USA has not been on the map yet). And it's just great that their leader (who seems to be a true leader, not another Deep State puppet!) has been guarding Russian sovereignty, history, values and traditions from all kinds of foreign dirty hands. And that's another thing why Deep State has been demonizing him for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I feel sorry for you guys.......you had so much opportunity and you pissed it away
> 
> Compare Russia to China in 1990. Russia had so much more offered them and settled for authoritarianism.  China was destitute an$ restructured their whole economy to become dominate around the globe
> 
> Russia is stil the same shithole it was 30 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US wasn't interested in cooperating with Russia for the labor benefits.
> 
> The US was interested in looting Russia's natural resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kissov.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kissov death
Click to expand...

30 years of economic opportunity and China thrived

Russia went backward......blame Putin Comrade


----------



## Tehon

rightwinger said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has tasted your Western "democracy" in 90-s and spit it out. The vast majority of Russians do not need your Western "values", they have their own great traditions and values they observe and respect which are over 10 ages old (Russia has been baptized in year 988, when USA has not been on the map yet). And it's just great that their leader (who seems to be a true leader, not another Deep State puppet!) has been guarding Russian sovereignty, history, values and traditions from all kinds of foreign dirty hands. And that's another thing why Deep State has been demonizing him for.
> 
> 
> 
> I feel sorry for you guys.......you had so much opportunity and you pissed it away
> 
> Compare Russia to China in 1990. Russia had so much more offered them and settled for authoritarianism.  China was destitute an$ restructured their whole economy to become dominate around the globe
> 
> Russia is stil the same shithole it was 30 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US wasn't interested in cooperating with Russia for the labor benefits.
> 
> The US was interested in looting Russia's natural resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kissov.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kissov death
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 30 years of economic opportunity and China thrived
> 
> Russia went backward......blame Putin Comrade
Click to expand...

You have no comment on the US meddling in Russian politics, hypocrite?


----------



## JakeStarkey

American stooges such as Beagle 9 and Meathead, Russian pimps like Stratford and Tehon - true American are coming to an awareness of all of you from Alt Right to RT Right to Russian Right, and that bodes no good for you.  America will, if necessary, turn the lights off in Russia, and then we will deal with the American turncoats and whores pimping for and being pimped out by Russia.

America's history makes very clear what happens to domestic enemies in the employ of foreign adversaries.


----------



## rightwinger

Tehon said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I feel sorry for you guys.......you had so much opportunity and you pissed it away
> 
> Compare Russia to China in 1990. Russia had so much more offered them and settled for authoritarianism.  China was destitute an$ restructured their whole economy to become dominate around the globe
> 
> Russia is stil the same shithole it was 30 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> The US wasn't interested in cooperating with Russia for the labor benefits.
> 
> The US was interested in looting Russia's natural resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kissov.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kissov death
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 30 years of economic opportunity and China thrived
> 
> Russia went backward......blame Putin Comrade
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have no comment on the US meddling in Russian politics, hypocrite?
Click to expand...

It only could have helped you Comrade 

You had endless opportunities open to you.......you chose Putin

Now, Russia has regressed


----------



## Tehon

JakeStarkey said:


> American stooges such as Beagle 9 and Meathead, Russian pimps like Stratford and Tehon - true American are coming to an awareness of all of you from Alt Right to RT Right to Russian Right, and that bodes no good for you.  America will, if necessary, turn the lights off in Russia, and then we will deal with the American turncoats and whores pimping for and being pimped out by Russia.
> 
> America's history makes very clear what happens to domestic enemies in the employ of foreign adversaries.


----------



## Meathead

JakeStarkey said:


> American stooges such as Beagle 9 and Meathead, Russian pimps like Stratford and Tehon - true American are coming to an awareness of all of you from Alt Right to RT Right to Russian Right, and that bodes no good for you.  America will, if necessary, turn the lights off in Russia, and then we will deal with the American turncoats and whores pimping for and being pimped out by Russia.
> 
> America's history makes very clear what happens to domestic enemies in the employ of foreign adversaries.


That means so much coming from you Flakey. We know, you're a Republican, and so I must admit I am nothing but a Russian troll bent on the destruction of America as is Trump.

God you're so intellgent. We never had a chance.


----------



## JakeStarkey

You don't anymore.  Fetch Sir Brad, dilly dilly!


----------



## rightwinger

This thread should not be about America demonizing Putin 

But why isn’t Russia demonizing Putin?

He has isolated them from the world, he has crippled their economy, he has set them back a century on human rights 

What is wrong with the Russian public?

Are they that meek after 70 years of Communist bliss?


----------



## Stratford57

JakeStarkey said:


> American stooges such as Beagle 9 and Meathead, Russian pimps like Stratford and Tehon - true American are coming to an awareness of all of you from Alt Right to RT Right to Russian Right, and that bodes no good for you.  America will, if necessary, turn the lights off in Russia, and then we will deal with the American turncoats and whores pimping for and being pimped out by Russia.
> 
> America's history makes very clear what happens to domestic enemies in the employ of foreign adversaries.


Since Soros Media fails to present the other side's point of view while blaming it for all kinds of alleged things, we are quoting Russian sources for those who want to know, and it's definitely not you, Jake, RW and Kiwi.

*To counter the new Russian ‘threat’ we’re told we need a big increase in NATO ‘defense’ spending. And who does that benefit? Why, US defense contractors! *

*As Charlie Chaplin commented in his classic 1947 black comedy Monsieur Verdoux, "Wars, conflicts, it’s all business!"*

By any objective assessment it's NATO - not Russia - with its build up of arms and soldiers on the borders of Russia, which threatens the peace of Europe. But anyone who points this out, and mentions the military alliance’s relentless _Drang nach Osten_, threatens the profits of US defense companies and is attacked as an ‘appeaser' or ‘Kremlin stooge’ *by those with a vested financial interest in keeping tensions high.*

*Neocons have embedded themselves in the corridors of power. They claim to be interested in spreading ‘democracy’, but the reality is that the neocon movement is all about money and profits.*

How much longer will the citizens of the world put up with a situation in which warmongers with ties to the military-industrial complex are allowed to stoke up international tensions? *The next time you read or hear someone issue stark warnings about the ‘Russian threat’ - and why NATO needs to hike its spending to deal with it - just follow the money trail.*

Follow the money trail for source of 'Russian threat' paranoia


----------



## JakeStarkey

Soros?


----------



## rightwinger

Stratford57 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> American stooges such as Beagle 9 and Meathead, Russian pimps like Stratford and Tehon - true American are coming to an awareness of all of you from Alt Right to RT Right to Russian Right, and that bodes no good for you.  America will, if necessary, turn the lights off in Russia, and then we will deal with the American turncoats and whores pimping for and being pimped out by Russia.
> 
> America's history makes very clear what happens to domestic enemies in the employ of foreign adversaries.
> 
> 
> 
> Since Soros Media fails to present the other side's point of view while blaming it for all kinds of alleged things, we are quoting Russian sources for those who want to know, and it's definitely not you, Jake, RW and Kiwi.
> 
> *To counter the new Russian ‘threat’ we’re told we need a big increase in NATO ‘defense’ spending. And who does that benefit? Why, US defense contractors! *
> 
> *As Charlie Chaplin commented in his classic 1947 black comedy Monsieur Verdoux, "Wars, conflicts, it’s all business!"*
> 
> By any objective assessment it's NATO - not Russia - with its build up of arms and soldiers on the borders of Russia, which threatens the peace of Europe. But anyone who points this out, and mentions the military alliance’s relentless _Drang nach Osten_, threatens the profits of US defense companies and is attacked as an ‘appeaser' or ‘Kremlin stooge’ *by those with a vested financial interest in keeping tensions high.*
> 
> *Neocons have embedded themselves in the corridors of power. They claim to be interested in spreading ‘democracy’, but the reality is that the neocon movement is all about money and profits.*
> 
> How much longer will the citizens of the world put up with a situation in which warmongers with ties to the military-industrial complex are allowed to stoke up international tensions? *The next time you read or hear someone issue stark warnings about the ‘Russian threat’ - and why NATO needs to hike its spending to deal with it - just follow the money trail.*
> 
> Follow the money trail for source of 'Russian threat' paranoia
Click to expand...

Soros is a nonentity in this country

Putin has more influence on Republicans than Soros does among Democrats


----------



## beagle9

kiwiman127 said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kiwiman127 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin isn't under indictment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because his buddy in chief Trump pretends that Puttin didn't do anything, many people in America don't even know what he did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's another myth which Deep State Media has been actively spreading. Trump and Putin are NOT buddies, never have been, and never met before Trump became a POTUS.
> Besides, during more than a year of Trump's presidency he hasn't done even one little thing in Putin's favor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't let facts get in your way of your bullshit.  Just keep on spreading the word, that Putin/Russia has been doing the United States nothing but favors.
> And, "Besides, during more than a year of Trump's presidency he hasn't done even one little thing in Putin's favor". Trump saying that Putin/Russian trying to influence in our election and dividing our country is a hoax, despite our intelligence agencies providing proof that it is true, isn't doing Putin any favors?
> You must think people are really stupid. Sorry buddy, you are naive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> . Your fear of election meddling by others is quite laughable, and your attitude that Americans need their little hands held when they vote so that the bear won't eat them when they go to vote is actually disrespectful and laughable all at the same time. Give the American's some bit of sanity in their everyday lives here.  Good grief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fuck off you anti-American and anti-Constitution piece of shit. Patriots from all sides of the aisle, agree with me.  It's just you easily manipulated Trumpsters, who think it's OK for Russia to attack our election process as written in the Constitution.
Click to expand...

. Struck a nerve I see...  That means you got hit with the truth and didn't like it, now go play in your sand box.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Yes, the anti-American and anti-Constitution and pro-Russian crap on the Alt Right, act with glee when called out.  Right, beagle9?

America has finally awakened to what your ilk is and what it has done.


----------



## beagle9

JakeStarkey said:


> American stooges such as Beagle 9 and Meathead, Russian pimps like Stratford and Tehon - true American are coming to an awareness of all of you from Alt Right to RT Right to Russian Right, and that bodes no good for you.  America will, if necessary, turn the lights off in Russia, and then we will deal with the American turncoats and whores pimping for and being pimped out by Russia.
> 
> America's history makes very clear what happens to domestic enemies in the employ of foreign adversaries.


 Ride that lame pony Jakey, because everyone knows all your bullcrap talking points. Not impressed at all. Put another nickel in and try again Jake. You'll go home broke.


----------



## beagle9

rightwinger said:


> This thread should not be about America demonizing Putin
> 
> But why isn’t Russia demonizing Putin?
> 
> He has isolated them from the world, he has crippled their economy, he has set them back a century on human rights
> 
> What is wrong with the Russian public?
> 
> Are they that meek after 70 years of Communist bliss?


. They may have awoken to liberalism, and they are rejecting it just like here. Putin might be speaking the things they want to hear, and they might be things being said like "Russia won't be going down the liberal/leftist trails" any longer.


----------



## rightwinger

beagle9 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> This thread should not be about America demonizing Putin
> 
> But why isn’t Russia demonizing Putin?
> 
> He has isolated them from the world, he has crippled their economy, he has set them back a century on human rights
> 
> What is wrong with the Russian public?
> 
> Are they that meek after 70 years of Communist bliss?
> 
> 
> 
> . They may have awoken to liberalism, and they are rejecting it just like here. Putin might be speaking the things they want to hear, and they might be things being said like "Russia won't be going down the liberal/leftist trails" any longer.
Click to expand...

China is not liberal and they revolutionized their economy in the same time period Russia chose to invoke Soviet values

Russia had an opportunity to move on to a modern economy

They blew it


----------



## beagle9

rightwinger said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> This thread should not be about America demonizing Putin
> 
> But why isn’t Russia demonizing Putin?
> 
> He has isolated them from the world, he has crippled their economy, he has set them back a century on human rights
> 
> What is wrong with the Russian public?
> 
> Are they that meek after 70 years of Communist bliss?
> 
> 
> 
> . They may have awoken to liberalism, and they are rejecting it just like here. Putin might be speaking the things they want to hear, and they might be things being said like "Russia won't be going down the liberal/leftist trails" any longer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> China is not liberal and they revolutionized their economy in the same time period Russia chose to invoke Soviet values
> 
> Russia had an opportunity to move on to a modern economy
> 
> They blew it
Click to expand...

. How do you as an American give China any perks when they are horrible humanatarians, and they are pure racist when it comes to their nation, and their military identity as being pure Chinese nationalist instead of a mixture of world citizen's who might want to migrate to China, and then live the Asian lifestyle with them, and for whom would want to defend the Chinese Homeland as citizens of China just like we do here in America ??


----------



## rightwinger

beagle9 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> This thread should not be about America demonizing Putin
> 
> But why isn’t Russia demonizing Putin?
> 
> He has isolated them from the world, he has crippled their economy, he has set them back a century on human rights
> 
> What is wrong with the Russian public?
> 
> Are they that meek after 70 years of Communist bliss?
> 
> 
> 
> . They may have awoken to liberalism, and they are rejecting it just like here. Putin might be speaking the things they want to hear, and they might be things being said like "Russia won't be going down the liberal/leftist trails" any longer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> China is not liberal and they revolutionized their economy in the same time period Russia chose to invoke Soviet values
> 
> Russia had an opportunity to move on to a modern economy
> 
> They blew it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> . How do you as an American give China any perks when they are horrible humanatarians, and they are pure racist when it comes to their nation, and their military identity as being pure Chinese nationalist instead of a mixture of world citizen's who might want to migrate to China, and then live the Asian lifestyle with them, and for whom would want to defend the Chinese Homeland as citizens of China just like we do here in America ??
Click to expand...

China has westernized more effectively than Russia

As a result, their economy is booming and Russia is stagnant 

Blame Putin


----------



## beagle9

rightwinger said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> This thread should not be about America demonizing Putin
> 
> But why isn’t Russia demonizing Putin?
> 
> He has isolated them from the world, he has crippled their economy, he has set them back a century on human rights
> 
> What is wrong with the Russian public?
> 
> Are they that meek after 70 years of Communist bliss?
> 
> 
> 
> . They may have awoken to liberalism, and they are rejecting it just like here. Putin might be speaking the things they want to hear, and they might be things being said like "Russia won't be going down the liberal/leftist trails" any longer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> China is not liberal and they revolutionized their economy in the same time period Russia chose to invoke Soviet values
> 
> Russia had an opportunity to move on to a modern economy
> 
> They blew it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> . How do you as an American give China any perks when they are horrible humanatarians, and they are pure racist when it comes to their nation, and their military identity as being pure Chinese nationalist instead of a mixture of world citizen's who might want to migrate to China, and then live the Asian lifestyle with them, and for whom would want to defend the Chinese Homeland as citizens of China just like we do here in America ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> China has westernized more effectively than Russia
> 
> As a result, their economy is booming and Russia is stagnant
> 
> Blame Putin
Click to expand...

 Meh, you are just using the issue to hate Putin because you think he put Trump in office.


----------



## rightwinger

beagle9 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> This thread should not be about America demonizing Putin
> 
> But why isn’t Russia demonizing Putin?
> 
> He has isolated them from the world, he has crippled their economy, he has set them back a century on human rights
> 
> What is wrong with the Russian public?
> 
> Are they that meek after 70 years of Communist bliss?
> 
> 
> 
> . They may have awoken to liberalism, and they are rejecting it just like here. Putin might be speaking the things they want to hear, and they might be things being said like "Russia won't be going down the liberal/leftist trails" any longer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> China is not liberal and they revolutionized their economy in the same time period Russia chose to invoke Soviet values
> 
> Russia had an opportunity to move on to a modern economy
> 
> They blew it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> . How do you as an American give China any perks when they are horrible humanatarians, and they are pure racist when it comes to their nation, and their military identity as being pure Chinese nationalist instead of a mixture of world citizen's who might want to migrate to China, and then live the Asian lifestyle with them, and for whom would want to defend the Chinese Homeland as citizens of China just like we do here in America ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> China has westernized more effectively than Russia
> 
> As a result, their economy is booming and Russia is stagnant
> 
> Blame Putin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Meh, you are just using the issue to hate Putin because you think he put Trump in office.
Click to expand...

The question is.....why don’t Russians hate Putin?

He has done more harm to them than he has to s


----------



## beagle9

rightwinger said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> . They may have awoken to liberalism, and they are rejecting it just like here. Putin might be speaking the things they want to hear, and they might be things being said like "Russia won't be going down the liberal/leftist trails" any longer.
> 
> 
> 
> China is not liberal and they revolutionized their economy in the same time period Russia chose to invoke Soviet values
> 
> Russia had an opportunity to move on to a modern economy
> 
> They blew it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> . How do you as an American give China any perks when they are horrible humanatarians, and they are pure racist when it comes to their nation, and their military identity as being pure Chinese nationalist instead of a mixture of world citizen's who might want to migrate to China, and then live the Asian lifestyle with them, and for whom would want to defend the Chinese Homeland as citizens of China just like we do here in America ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> China has westernized more effectively than Russia
> 
> As a result, their economy is booming and Russia is stagnant
> 
> Blame Putin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Meh, you are just using the issue to hate Putin because you think he put Trump in office.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question is.....why don’t Russians hate Putin?
> 
> He has done more harm to them than he has to s
Click to expand...

 Why don't Russians hate Putin ?? Well that would be hard for you to understand since you aren't a Russian. Problem with we Americans, is that we want to think we know everyone better than they know themselves, so when we can't figure it out it just baffles the heck out of us because we figure that we know everything or we should know everything right ??


----------



## Stratford57

rightwinger said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> . They may have awoken to liberalism, and they are rejecting it just like here. Putin might be speaking the things they want to hear, and they might be things being said like "Russia won't be going down the liberal/leftist trails" any longer.
> 
> 
> 
> China is not liberal and they revolutionized their economy in the same time period Russia chose to invoke Soviet values
> 
> Russia had an opportunity to move on to a modern economy
> 
> They blew it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> . How do you as an American give China any perks when they are horrible humanatarians, and they are pure racist when it comes to their nation, and their military identity as being pure Chinese nationalist instead of a mixture of world citizen's who might want to migrate to China, and then live the Asian lifestyle with them, and for whom would want to defend the Chinese Homeland as citizens of China just like we do here in America ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> China has westernized more effectively than Russia
> 
> As a result, their economy is booming and Russia is stagnant
> 
> Blame Putin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Meh, you are just using the issue to hate Putin because you think he put Trump in office.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question is.....why don’t Russians hate Putin?
> 
> He has done more harm to them than he has to s
Click to expand...

The question is why some Americans (who "know" about Putin only from their biased Media) hate Putin. Putin hasn't done anything bad to Americans. And even S. Cohen admits he has helped USA quite a bit (read my post #1). And he could have done a lot more good things (especially intelligence with data exchange) to your country if your own Congress had not hobbled your President with his willing to cooperate with Russia.

Meanwhile your own Deep State has done quite a bit of  harm to your country and the whole world and keeps harming. That's who is your REAL, not alleged enemy.  There is a good Russian saying: The one who's screaming "Catch the thief!" the most loud almost always is the thief.


----------



## Litwin

JakeStarkey said:


> Cohen is a Russian stooge.


Cohen is a loser and paid traitor of those *usedtobes*


----------



## rightwinger

Stratford57 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> China is not liberal and they revolutionized their economy in the same time period Russia chose to invoke Soviet values
> 
> Russia had an opportunity to move on to a modern economy
> 
> They blew it
> 
> 
> 
> . How do you as an American give China any perks when they are horrible humanatarians, and they are pure racist when it comes to their nation, and their military identity as being pure Chinese nationalist instead of a mixture of world citizen's who might want to migrate to China, and then live the Asian lifestyle with them, and for whom would want to defend the Chinese Homeland as citizens of China just like we do here in America ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> China has westernized more effectively than Russia
> 
> As a result, their economy is booming and Russia is stagnant
> 
> Blame Putin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Meh, you are just using the issue to hate Putin because you think he put Trump in office.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question is.....why don’t Russians hate Putin?
> 
> He has done more harm to them than he has to s
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question is why some Americans (who "know" about Putin only from their biased Media) hate Putin. Putin hasn't done anything bad to Americans. And even S. Cohen admits he has helped USA quite a bit (read my post #1). And he could have done a lot more good things (especially intelligence with data exchange) to your country if your own Congress had not hobbled your President with his willing to cooperate with Russia.
> 
> Meanwhile your own Deep State has done quite a bit of  harm to your country and the whole world and keeps harming. That's who is your REAL, not alleged enemy.  There is a good Russian saying: The one who's screaming "Catch the thief!" the most loud almost always is the thief.
Click to expand...


Putin has ruined your chance to be a major economic power.  A power fitting your size, population and resources. China did it and they had many more challenges to modernization

You had abundant opportunities and allowed cheap oil profits to fool you into believing you had a strong economy

You blew it Comrade


----------



## Stratford57

rightwinger said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> . How do you as an American give China any perks when they are horrible humanatarians, and they are pure racist when it comes to their nation, and their military identity as being pure Chinese nationalist instead of a mixture of world citizen's who might want to migrate to China, and then live the Asian lifestyle with them, and for whom would want to defend the Chinese Homeland as citizens of China just like we do here in America ??
> 
> 
> 
> China has westernized more effectively than Russia
> 
> As a result, their economy is booming and Russia is stagnant
> 
> Blame Putin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Meh, you are just using the issue to hate Putin because you think he put Trump in office.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question is.....why don’t Russians hate Putin?
> 
> He has done more harm to them than he has to s
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question is why some Americans (who "know" about Putin only from their biased Media) hate Putin. Putin hasn't done anything bad to Americans. And even S. Cohen admits he has helped USA quite a bit (read my post #1). And he could have done a lot more good things (especially intelligence with data exchange) to your country if your own Congress had not hobbled your President with his willing to cooperate with Russia.
> 
> Meanwhile your own Deep State has done quite a bit of  harm to your country and the whole world and keeps harming. That's who is your REAL, not alleged enemy.  There is a good Russian saying: The one who's screaming "Catch the thief!" the most loud almost always is the thief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Putin has ruined your chance to be a major economic power.  A power fitting your size, population and resources. China did it and they had many more challenges to modernization
> 
> You had abundant opportunities and allowed cheap oil profits to fool you into believing you had a strong economy
> 
> You blew it Comrade
Click to expand...

You jeep writing that BS for the third time in the same thread. There is a saying "Even if you say the word _candy_ many times you won't feel sweetness in your mouth." Being repeated several times your BS won't become the truth.

 Russian people have chosen their own way and it differs from Western. It's their free choice and it's none of your bluishness. You better concentrate on the problems *inside your own country *and leave Russia alone. Russia will survive.

But what kind of future  your country has where the crooks keep "investigating" innocent people, Media keeps spreading Hollywood stories and lies, feminists/gays.blacks are the most important people, the majority of population (white people) and police have been trashed ? I'm not sure.


----------



## Stratford57

Litwin said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cohen is a Russian stooge.
> 
> 
> 
> Cohen is a loser and paid traitor of those *usedtobes*
Click to expand...

Litwin, everybody has already figured out: if we need to spoil a thread, we need to invite you.

BTW, your post have NOTHING to do with the subject of the thread. You are welcome to post a picture of S. Cohen or to say something smart (however I seriously doubt you are able to). Get lost, cheap Ukrainian troll.


----------



## rightwinger

Stratford57 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> China has westernized more effectively than Russia
> 
> As a result, their economy is booming and Russia is stagnant
> 
> Blame Putin
> 
> 
> 
> Meh, you are just using the issue to hate Putin because you think he put Trump in office.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question is.....why don’t Russians hate Putin?
> 
> He has done more harm to them than he has to s
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question is why some Americans (who "know" about Putin only from their biased Media) hate Putin. Putin hasn't done anything bad to Americans. And even S. Cohen admits he has helped USA quite a bit (read my post #1). And he could have done a lot more good things (especially intelligence with data exchange) to your country if your own Congress had not hobbled your President with his willing to cooperate with Russia.
> 
> Meanwhile your own Deep State has done quite a bit of  harm to your country and the whole world and keeps harming. That's who is your REAL, not alleged enemy.  There is a good Russian saying: The one who's screaming "Catch the thief!" the most loud almost always is the thief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Putin has ruined your chance to be a major economic power.  A power fitting your size, population and resources. China did it and they had many more challenges to modernization
> 
> You had abundant opportunities and allowed cheap oil profits to fool you into believing you had a strong economy
> 
> You blew it Comrade
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You jeep writing that BS for the third time in the same thread. There is a saying "Even if you say the word _candy_ many times you won't feel sweetness in your mouth." Being repeated several times your BS won't become the truth.
> 
> Russian people have chosen their own way and it differs from Western. It's their free choice and it's none of your bluishness. You better concentrate on the problems *inside your own country *and leave Russia alone. Russia will survive.
> 
> But what kind of future  your country has where the crooks keep "investigating" innocent people, Media keeps spreading Hollywood stories and lies, feminists/gays.blacks are the most important people, the majority of population (white people) and police have been trashed ? I'm not sure.
Click to expand...

Like I said before, the Russian people are like an animal raised in a cage that once released......chooses to return to the cage

The USA is doing just fine thank you.  We are the strongest economy in the world .......a country strong enough to value the rights of blacks, gays and women

Enjoy your self imposed gulag Comrade


----------



## Balancer

rightwinger said:


> Napoleon invaded you......Russia never took Paris



In American schools, history is so poorly taught? 

Battle of Paris (1814) - Wikipedia


----------



## Balancer

rightwinger said:


> Russia is stil the same shithole it was 30 years ago.



You were in Russia 30 years ago and now? I was  Here's a little for comparison. Red Square in 1990. When Russia embarked on the path of Western democracy:



 

And my village in our time. When Russia develops under the authoritarian rule of the bloody dictator Putin 



 

A little more comparisons in a separate topic: USSR-Russia. 1988-2018. Timeline.

You'll never understand why Russia has such a big support for Putin if you blindly believe the Western media. They do not tell the whole truth, and often deceive you directly.


----------



## Lewdog

Putin needs to be treated the same way he treats journalist that expose him.  

Found dead in the trunk of his car.


----------



## Balancer

rightwinger said:


> Now, Russia has regressed



There is such a simple and visual Western purchasing power index - the index of the Big Mac.

Big Mac Index - Wikipedia

In 1993 in Russia for one average salary it was possible to buy 40 Big Macs. In the past year - 260. If roughly recalculated in US salaries, it will be about *$20,000* per year. In 1993, it was about *$1,450* a year. I think these figures are somewhere close to what I perceive in the growth of the standard of living subjectively


----------



## Balancer

rightwinger said:


> But why isn’t Russia demonizing Putin?
> 
> He has isolated them from the world, he has crippled their economy, he has set them back a century on human rights
> 
> What is wrong with the Russian public?



It's just that we see reality in Russia with our own eyes, not through the American media


----------



## Litwin

Balancer said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is stil the same shithole it was 30 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were in Russia 30 years ago and now? I was  Here's a little for comparison. Red Square in 1990. When Russia embarked on the path of Western democracy:
> 
> View attachment 179054
> 
> And my village in our time. When Russia develops under the authoritarian rule of the bloody dictator Putin
> 
> View attachment 179055
> 
> A little more comparisons in a separate topic: USSR-Russia. 1988-2018. Timeline.
> 
> You'll never understand why Russia has such a big support for Putin if you blindly believe the Western media. They do not tell the whole truth, and often deceive you directly.
Click to expand...

your "village" made up in Olgino, as many here wrote already, keep up with vova putler and you will  end up as the Ottomans in *1917  

ps this a typical putlerist much like you 

 *


----------



## Litwin

Lewdog said:


> Putin needs to be treated the same way he treats journalist that expose him.
> 
> Found dead in the trunk of his car.


*+1*, and he will be there one day for sure


----------



## Litwin

rightwinger said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> This thread should not be about America demonizing Putin
> 
> But why isn’t Russia demonizing Putin?
> 
> He has isolated them from the world, he has crippled their economy, he has set them back a century on human rights
> 
> What is wrong with the Russian public?
> 
> Are they that meek after 70 years of Communist bliss?
> 
> 
> 
> . They may have awoken to liberalism, and they are rejecting it just like here. Putin might be speaking the things they want to hear, and they might be things being said like "Russia won't be going down the liberal/leftist trails" any longer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> China is not liberal and they revolutionized their economy in the same time period Russia chose to invoke Soviet values
> 
> Russia had an opportunity to move on to a modern economy
> 
> They blew it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> . How do you as an American give China any perks when they are horrible humanatarians, and they are pure racist when it comes to their nation, and their military identity as being pure Chinese nationalist instead of a mixture of world citizen's who might want to migrate to China, and then live the Asian lifestyle with them, and for whom would want to defend the Chinese Homeland as citizens of China just like we do here in America ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> China has westernized more effectively than Russia
> 
> As a result, their _*economy is booming *_and _*Russia is stagnant *_
> 
> Blame Putin
Click to expand...

+1


----------



## rightwinger

Balancer said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is stil the same shithole it was 30 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were in Russia 30 years ago and now? I was  Here's a little for comparison. Red Square in 1990. When Russia embarked on the path of Western democracy:
> 
> View attachment 179054
> 
> And my village in our time. When Russia develops under the authoritarian rule of the bloody dictator Putin
> 
> View attachment 179055
> 
> A little more comparisons in a separate topic: USSR-Russia. 1988-2018. Timeline.
> 
> You'll never understand why Russia has such a big support for Putin if you blindly believe the Western media. They do not tell the whole truth, and often deceive you directly.
Click to expand...


Why would you support Putin?

He has held you back and prevented you from assuming your rightful place as a global economic power


----------



## rightwinger

Balancer said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> But why isn’t Russia demonizing Putin?
> 
> He has isolated them from the world, he has crippled their economy, he has set them back a century on human rights
> 
> What is wrong with the Russian public?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's just that we see reality in Russia with our own eyes, not through the American media
Click to expand...


Lets look at it through the eyes of national GDP






Russia has a population of 145 million but lags behind western powers with half the population

What happened Russia? You have had 30 years to bring your economy on par with the west and you failed. China did it. The west offered you favorable trade deals, equal footing, membership in the G7 industrialized nations

Putin pissed it all away. He thought his oil reserves would be enough to carry his economy. He was wrong


----------



## Litwin

rightwinger said:


> Balancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is stil the same shithole it was 30 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were in Russia 30 years ago and now? I was  Here's a little for comparison. Red Square in 1990. When Russia embarked on the path of Western democracy:
> 
> View attachment 179054
> 
> And my village in our time. When Russia develops under the authoritarian rule of the bloody dictator Putin
> 
> View attachment 179055
> 
> A little more comparisons in a separate topic: USSR-Russia. 1988-2018. Timeline.
> 
> You'll never understand why Russia has such a big support for Putin if you blindly believe the Western media. They do not tell the whole truth, and often deceive you directly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would you support Putin?
> 
> He has held you back and prevented you from assuming your rightful place as a global economic power
Click to expand...

Internet Research Agency - Wikipedia


----------



## Litwin

rightwinger said:


> Balancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> But why isn’t Russia demonizing Putin?
> 
> He has isolated them from the world, he has crippled their economy, he has set them back a century on human rights
> 
> What is wrong with the Russian public?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's just that we see reality in Russia with our own eyes, not through the American media
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lets look at it through the eyes of national GDP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has a population of 145 million but lags behind western powers with half the population
> 
> What happened Russia? You have had 30 years to bring your economy on par with the west and you failed. China did it. The west offered you favorable trade deals, equal footing, membership in the G7 industrialized nations
> 
> Putin pissed it all away. He thought his oil reserves would be enough to carry his economy. He was wrong
Click to expand...

*"Russia in Figures*



    The territory of Russia is 17.075.260 square meters. km and mainly lies north of 55 ° N.
    Approximately 85% of the territory is not suitable for permanent comfortable living of the population. permafrost (areas of Siberia and the Far East) occupies 60% of the territory of Russia, swamps and wetlands almost 22%, rivers and lakes about 4%. Another part of the land is periodically flooded, part is occupied by mountains and forests, a little under ravines, part under deserts and solonchaks.

    According to the State Statistics Committee's report for 2005, in Russia 2.2 million square meters of agricultural land are cultivated or used in agriculture. km, of which only 1.2 million for arable land, 0.2 million square kilometers are occupied by settlements of all types in the country. km, for industrial facilities and for military purposes 0.2 million, for other 0.1 million.
    For a happy life, the Russians still have 2.561.289 square meters. km.
    This is 15% of the territory ie. real *Russia is slightly larger than Sudan, but less than Kazakhstan.*
    Average temperatures in January, in different regions, from 0 to -50 ° C, in July from 1 to 25 ° C, precipitation falls from 150 to 2000 mm per year.
    At temperatures below -5 ° C, the maintenance costs of the infrastructure with each degree below zero increase exponentially.
    Snow removal in the thickness of 40 cm in St. Petersburg takes more than 30 days.



    Russia accounts for less than 2% of global GDP. The main export items (according to the Federal Customs Service) are *gas and oil (70%),* primary metals (15%), roundwood (10%), everything else, including equipment, weapons and technology - less than 5%.

    According to soil scientists, 17.8% of agricultural land is subject to water erosion, 8.4% of wind erosion, 12.3% of wetlands and wetlands occupy wetlands and wetlands, and saline soils - 20.1%.
    The land, not subject to all these misfortunes, in Russia is only 0.91 million square meters. km.
    The agricultural season in most of Russia is 2-3 months (in Europe or the US 8-9 months). The average annual yield of cereals in Russia (on non-chernozems) is about 17 centners, in Germany, France and Great Britain (on nonchernozem) - 70 quintals per hectare, in Sweden - 60, in Ireland - 85, in Ukraine (on chernozems) - 24 in all.

    The Russian state border stretches for 58,322 km and has 424 border crossings.
    The total number of settlements is 157.895, of which more than 30.000 are still without telephone communication.
    Most of the 39,000 abandoned villages and settlements are in the Central Federal District, the Northwest, the Far North, Siberia and the Far East.
    In Russia only 65% of housing has been gasified.
    Up to 75% of Russia's food needs are covered by imports.
    78.7% of Russians consider cooperation with law enforcement bodies as unacceptable.
    Russia consumes more than 20% of all heroin produced in the world.
    The volume of the Russian market of heroin alone is estimated at $ 13 billion annually.
    Every day in Russia, 100 people die because of a drug overdose.

    In 2009, 786 terrorist acts were committed in Russia. Since the beginning of 2010, already 427.
    The flying time of NATO strike aviation from the borders of Estonia and Latvia to St. Petersburg does not exceed 4 minutes, to Moscow - no more than 18.

    Life in Russia is satisfied with two categories of people: those who are not in the know and those who are in the share.

    63% of Russians with incomes above the national average would like their children to study and work abroad.
    35% want their children to live abroad permanently.
    At 2.000 vacancies for janitors opened in St. Petersburg in early 2010, there were fewer than 10 applicants.
    The proposed salary is 12.000 rub / month.
    The increase in the cost of travel in the St. Petersburg metro since 2003 is 35% per year.
    Last year, more than 50 tons of explosives were seized at Russian airports.

    The average Russian consumes 18 liters of alcohol per year. According to the conclusion of UN experts, the annual consumption of 8 liters of alcohol per capita leads to a serious degradation of the population.
    In Russia, a pack of cigarettes can be bought for 30 cents, a bottle of beer, which can be bought at every corner 24 hours a day, is cheaper than a bottle of drinking water.
    Only 1% of the water consumed by Russians meets the world quality standards.
    in Russia there are 51,230 people who were exposed to radiation as a result of the Chernobyl accident.

    The State Duma and the Federation Council meet 12 billionaires, whose overall condition is estimated at 41 billion dollars.
    Russia has 62 billionaires with a combined capital of $ 297 billion. Russian billionaires pay the lowest taxes in the world (13%) that their colleagues in France and Sweden (57%), in Denmark (61%) or Italy (66%) %).
    26% of Russians have an outstanding loan.
    143,000 people were deprived of the right to travel abroad due to problems with their debts.

    According to the Rosgosstrakh CSR, in Russia the annual income is more than $ 1 million from 160,000 people, the annual income of more than $ 100,000 has 440,000 sem"


----------



## Stratford57

rightwinger said:


> Balancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> But why isn’t Russia demonizing Putin?
> 
> He has isolated them from the world, he has crippled their economy, he has set them back a century on human rights
> 
> What is wrong with the Russian public?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's just that we see reality in Russia with our own eyes, not through the American media
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lets look at it through the eyes of national GDP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has a population of 145 million but lags behind western powers with half the population
> 
> What happened Russia? You have had 30 years to bring your economy on par with the west and you failed. China did it. The west offered you favorable trade deals, equal footing, membership in the G7 industrialized nations
> 
> Putin pissed it all away. He thought his oil reserves would be enough to carry his economy. He was wrong
Click to expand...

It's funny to watch, RW, how you are preaching to Balancer about "how bad it is to live in Russia" while he actually lives there and you don't. Keep trying. 

There is a sad example of a country who has chosen Western "democracy" (actually has been forced to without asking the people's opinion) and where Deep State has brought its puppets to power: it's my home country of Ukraine, it officially became the poorest country in Europe last year. Just look at some numbers:

Azarov, the ex-PM of Ukraine: Those who were encouraging Ukrainians to overthrow “pro-Russian president and government” and to replace them with pro-European ones were promising to turn Ukraine into “another Switzerland or another France”.  How has the situation in Ukraine changed since that?

-       Ukraine is now in top ten in the list of the most poor countries in the world;

-       Ukrainian state debt grew up to $77 billion dollars;

-       Ukrainians’ income decreased significantly while some utilities increased 10 or more times;

-       Civil war against her own population in Donbass on the top of everything. (During 4 years Ukrainian authorities were able to catch 11 (eleven!) Russian citizens in Donbass!)

-       Population of Ukraine in 1991 when it separated from Russia was 52 million; before the 2014 coup it was 45 million and after 4 years it’s only 35 million. 30% of population went to Poland to work and 35% went to Russia to work (it’s very difficult and sometimes impossible to find *a paid* job in Ukraine).

The authorities have raised utilities payments so now monthly utilities payments= monthly retirement payments.* My friend asked to tell Americans her big “thank you” for bringing their “democracy” to our country. She says now we all have a democratic choice: to die from hunger or to die from freezing.*

And all that ^ in spite of over $3.6 billions of credit which Ukrainian pro-European politicians received from IMF and other foreign sponsors.

It's another reason ^ why Russians are going to reelect Putin on March,18.

P.S. Balancer , thanks for joining the thread, as a Russian citizen you are a lot more convincing than anybody else.


----------



## rightwinger

Stratford57 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Balancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> But why isn’t Russia demonizing Putin?
> 
> He has isolated them from the world, he has crippled their economy, he has set them back a century on human rights
> 
> What is wrong with the Russian public?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's just that we see reality in Russia with our own eyes, not through the American media
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lets look at it through the eyes of national GDP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has a population of 145 million but lags behind western powers with half the population
> 
> What happened Russia? You have had 30 years to bring your economy on par with the west and you failed. China did it. The west offered you favorable trade deals, equal footing, membership in the G7 industrialized nations
> 
> Putin pissed it all away. He thought his oil reserves would be enough to carry his economy. He was wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's funny to watch, RW, how you are preaching to Balancer about "how bad it is to live in Russia" while he actually lives there and you don't. Keep trying.
> 
> There is a sad example of a country who has chosen Western "democracy" (actually has been forced to without asking the people's opinion) and where Deep State has brought its puppets to power: it's my home country of Ukraine, it officially became the poorest country in Europe last year. Just look at some numbers:
> 
> Azarov, the ex-PM of Ukraine: Those who were encouraging Ukrainians to overthrow “pro-Russian president and government” and to replace them with pro-European ones were promising to turn Ukraine into “another Switzerland or another France”.  How has the situation in Ukraine changed since that?
> 
> -       Ukraine is now in top ten in the list of the most poor countries in the world;
> 
> -       Ukrainian state debt grew up to $77 billion dollars;
> 
> -       Ukrainians’ income decreased significantly while some utilities increased 10 or more times;
> 
> -       Civil war against her own population in Donbass on the top of everything. (During 4 years Ukrainian authorities were able to catch 11 (eleven!) Russian citizens in Donbass!)
> 
> -       Population of Ukraine in 1991 when it separated from Russia was 52 million; before the 2014 coup it was 45 million and after 4 years it’s only 35 million. 30% of population went to Poland to work and 35% went to Russia to work (it’s very difficult and sometimes impossible to find *a paid* job in Ukraine).
> 
> The authorities have raised utilities payments so now monthly utilities payments= monthly retirement payments.* My friend asked to tell Americans her big “thank you” for bringing their “democracy” to our country. She says now we all have a democratic choice: to die from hunger or to die from freezing.*
> 
> And all that ^ in spite of over $3.6 billions of credit which Ukrainian pro-European politicians received from IMF and other foreign sponsors.
> 
> It's another reason ^ why Russians are going to reelect Putin on March,18.
> 
> P.S. Balancer , thanks for joining the thread, as a Russian citizen you are a lot more convincing than anybody else.
Click to expand...


Putin is not the leader of the Ukraine (yet)

So far, he has only screwed up Russia


----------



## Stratford57

rightwinger said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Balancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> But why isn’t Russia demonizing Putin?
> 
> He has isolated them from the world, he has crippled their economy, he has set them back a century on human rights
> 
> What is wrong with the Russian public?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's just that we see reality in Russia with our own eyes, not through the American media
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lets look at it through the eyes of national GDP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has a population of 145 million but lags behind western powers with half the population
> 
> What happened Russia? You have had 30 years to bring your economy on par with the west and you failed. China did it. The west offered you favorable trade deals, equal footing, membership in the G7 industrialized nations
> 
> Putin pissed it all away. He thought his oil reserves would be enough to carry his economy. He was wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's funny to watch, RW, how you are preaching to Balancer about "how bad it is to live in Russia" while he actually lives there and you don't. Keep trying.
> 
> There is a sad example of a country who has chosen Western "democracy" (actually has been forced to without asking the people's opinion) and where Deep State has brought its puppets to power: it's my home country of Ukraine, it officially became the poorest country in Europe last year. Just look at some numbers:
> 
> Azarov, the ex-PM of Ukraine: Those who were encouraging Ukrainians to overthrow “pro-Russian president and government” and to replace them with pro-European ones were promising to turn Ukraine into “another Switzerland or another France”.  How has the situation in Ukraine changed since that?
> 
> -       Ukraine is now in top ten in the list of the most poor countries in the world;
> 
> -       Ukrainian state debt grew up to $77 billion dollars;
> 
> -       Ukrainians’ income decreased significantly while some utilities increased 10 or more times;
> 
> -       Civil war against her own population in Donbass on the top of everything. (During 4 years Ukrainian authorities were able to catch 11 (eleven!) Russian citizens in Donbass!)
> 
> -       Population of Ukraine in 1991 when it separated from Russia was 52 million; before the 2014 coup it was 45 million and after 4 years it’s only 35 million. 30% of population went to Poland to work and 35% went to Russia to work (it’s very difficult and sometimes impossible to find *a paid* job in Ukraine).
> 
> The authorities have raised utilities payments so now monthly utilities payments= monthly retirement payments.* My friend asked to tell Americans her big “thank you” for bringing their “democracy” to our country. She says now we all have a democratic choice: to die from hunger or to die from freezing.*
> 
> And all that ^ in spite of over $3.6 billions of credit which Ukrainian pro-European politicians received from IMF and other foreign sponsors.
> 
> It's another reason ^ why Russians are going to reelect Putin on March,18.
> 
> P.S. Balancer , thanks for joining the thread, as a Russian citizen you are a lot more convincing than anybody else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Putin is not the leader of the Ukraine (yet)
> 
> So far, he has only screwed up Russia
Click to expand...

Putin has brought Yeltsin's Russia up from her knees to a pretty decent level. And will keep bringing her up and up (in spite of all the efforts from Western countries to stop it) for at least  next 6 years.

While Ukraine under  Washington and its puppets control has turned into a sh*thole. That was the price Ukraine had to pay for accepting  Western "democracy". So, you better enjoy your "democracy" yourself and stop exporting it all over the world.


----------



## rightwinger

Stratford57 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Balancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> But why isn’t Russia demonizing Putin?
> 
> He has isolated them from the world, he has crippled their economy, he has set them back a century on human rights
> 
> What is wrong with the Russian public?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's just that we see reality in Russia with our own eyes, not through the American media
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lets look at it through the eyes of national GDP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has a population of 145 million but lags behind western powers with half the population
> 
> What happened Russia? You have had 30 years to bring your economy on par with the west and you failed. China did it. The west offered you favorable trade deals, equal footing, membership in the G7 industrialized nations
> 
> Putin pissed it all away. He thought his oil reserves would be enough to carry his economy. He was wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's funny to watch, RW, how you are preaching to Balancer about "how bad it is to live in Russia" while he actually lives there and you don't. Keep trying.
> 
> There is a sad example of a country who has chosen Western "democracy" (actually has been forced to without asking the people's opinion) and where Deep State has brought its puppets to power: it's my home country of Ukraine, it officially became the poorest country in Europe last year. Just look at some numbers:
> 
> Azarov, the ex-PM of Ukraine: Those who were encouraging Ukrainians to overthrow “pro-Russian president and government” and to replace them with pro-European ones were promising to turn Ukraine into “another Switzerland or another France”.  How has the situation in Ukraine changed since that?
> 
> -       Ukraine is now in top ten in the list of the most poor countries in the world;
> 
> -       Ukrainian state debt grew up to $77 billion dollars;
> 
> -       Ukrainians’ income decreased significantly while some utilities increased 10 or more times;
> 
> -       Civil war against her own population in Donbass on the top of everything. (During 4 years Ukrainian authorities were able to catch 11 (eleven!) Russian citizens in Donbass!)
> 
> -       Population of Ukraine in 1991 when it separated from Russia was 52 million; before the 2014 coup it was 45 million and after 4 years it’s only 35 million. 30% of population went to Poland to work and 35% went to Russia to work (it’s very difficult and sometimes impossible to find *a paid* job in Ukraine).
> 
> The authorities have raised utilities payments so now monthly utilities payments= monthly retirement payments.* My friend asked to tell Americans her big “thank you” for bringing their “democracy” to our country. She says now we all have a democratic choice: to die from hunger or to die from freezing.*
> 
> And all that ^ in spite of over $3.6 billions of credit which Ukrainian pro-European politicians received from IMF and other foreign sponsors.
> 
> It's another reason ^ why Russians are going to reelect Putin on March,18.
> 
> P.S. Balancer , thanks for joining the thread, as a Russian citizen you are a lot more convincing than anybody else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Putin is not the leader of the Ukraine (yet)
> 
> So far, he has only screwed up Russia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin has brought Yeltsin's Russia up from her knees to a pretty decent level. And will keep bringing her up and up (in spite of all the efforts from Western countries to stop it) for at least  next 6 years.
> 
> While Ukraine under  Washington and its puppets control has turned into a sh*thole. That was the price Ukraine had to pay for accepting  Western "democracy". So, you better enjoy your "democracy" yourself and stop exporting it all over the world.
Click to expand...


You have had 30 years and have accomplished nothing in turning Russia into an industrialized power

Look at East Germany....a former Soviet territory
They have used that 30 years to modernize, build industry and raise their standard of living

Russia has foundered while embracing old Soviet policies


----------



## JakeStarkey

Putin is still crawling around on his knees.

Russia is no economic powerhouse: it rates behind India and Italy and GDP.


----------



## rightwinger

JakeStarkey said:


> Putin is still crawling around on his knees.
> 
> Russia is no economic powerhouse: it rates behind India and Italy and GDP.



Putin had them convinced that Russia was thriving under his leadership. But it was all built on hyper inflated oil revenues

Once oil collapsed and Obama led sanctions took hold, Putin struggled

The Russian people are too dumb to realize Putin is leading them to rampant stagnation


----------



## Wry Catcher

Everything anyone needs  to know about Putin was on display last night on 60-Minutes.  Watch it and be horrified of the results of the nerve gas attack on civilians, and the bodies of men, women and dozens of children.

Support for the Butcher of Syria by Russia is evil!

*WARNING THIS VIDEO IS GRAPHIC AND ENOUGH TO MAKE ANYONE WITH EMPATHY CRY AND/OR ENRAGED!
*
What a chemical attack in Syria looks like


----------



## Tehon

Wry Catcher said:


> Everything anyone needs  to know about Putin was on display last night on 60-Minutes.  Watch it and be horrified of the results of the nerve gas attack on civilians, and the bodies of men, women and dozens of children.
> 
> Support for the Butcher of Syria by Russia is evil!
> 
> *WARNING THIS VIDEO IS GRAPHIC AND ENOUGH TO MAKE ANYONE WITH EMPATHY CRY AND/OR ENRAGED!
> *
> What a chemical attack in Syria looks like


Now Mattis admits there was no evidence Assad used poison gas on his people


----------



## Litwin

JakeStarkey said:


> Putin is still crawling around on his knees.
> 
> Russia is no economic powerhouse: it rates behind India and Italy and GDP.


*TIL Russia has a smaller GDP than California, Texas or New York ...*

... Spain and _Russia_ had roughly equal ...


----------



## Wry Catcher

Tehon said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything anyone needs  to know about Putin was on display last night on 60-Minutes.  Watch it and be horrified of the results of the nerve gas attack on civilians, and the bodies of men, women and dozens of children.
> 
> Support for the Butcher of Syria by Russia is evil!
> 
> *WARNING THIS VIDEO IS GRAPHIC AND ENOUGH TO MAKE ANYONE WITH EMPATHY CRY AND/OR ENRAGED!
> *
> What a chemical attack in Syria looks like
> 
> 
> 
> Now Mattis admits there was no evidence Assad used poison gas on his people
Click to expand...


Mattis may not have the evidence, CBS has it in spades.


----------



## Stratford57

Wry Catcher said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything anyone needs  to know about Putin was on display last night on 60-Minutes.  Watch it and be horrified of the results of the nerve gas attack on civilians, and the bodies of men, women and dozens of children.
> 
> Support for the Butcher of Syria by Russia is evil!
> 
> *WARNING THIS VIDEO IS GRAPHIC AND ENOUGH TO MAKE ANYONE WITH EMPATHY CRY AND/OR ENRAGED!
> *
> What a chemical attack in Syria looks like
> 
> 
> 
> Now Mattis admits there was no evidence Assad used poison gas on his people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mattis may not have the evidence, CBS has it in spades.
Click to expand...

The alleged chemical attack took place in ISIS controlled territory in Damascus suburbs area. ISIS had a lot more chances to pull it out than Assad. And ISIS had reasons for that while Assad did not. Why? Because it hurts Assad and helps ISIS.

Besides, your favorite “leader” Obama has confirmed that Assad got rid of all his chemical weapons.
On 18 August 2014, all of the most toxic chemicals had been destroyed offshore.
Destruction of Syria's chemical weapons - Wikipedia

Lavrov said today: "Mass media released fake news saying that chlorine was used yesterday or this morning in Eastern Ghouta (a Damascus suburb - TASS), referring to an anonymous source living in the US."

"The attempts (at misinformation) will continue for the sole purpose of discrediting government forces and blaming them for all mortal sins and war crimes," he said. "This will be done with the aim of systematically pushing ahead with actions that we already observe *in the eastern regions of Syria, where the United States is enforcing its scenario of creating a quasi-state and dismembering the country.* We will continue to discuss this theme further on with the Americans and with their allies in the coalition."

"They (the US and its allies - TASS) should explain why these actions are taken despite the fact that Resolution 2401 proved the need for Syria’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. So, there are many questions here," he said.
Russian top diplomat forecasts more 'fake news' aimed at tearing apart Syria


----------



## Litwin

*Russia's Reserve Fund Runs out of Money 14 Years After Its Founding ...*
Russia's Reserve Fund Runs out of Money 14 Years After Its Founding
Jan 12, 2018 - Photo: Pexels. 1. _Russia's_ sovereign _Reserve Fund_ dries up after several years of budget deficit. What happened: _Russia's_ sovereign _Reserve Fund_, which was built up over the years with profits from oil exports, is _empty_ and has ceased to exist, the Finance Ministry announced on Tuesday. The _Russian_ ...
*Russia's Reserve Fund is kaput — Meduza*
Russia's Reserve Fund is kaput
Jan 10, 2018 - _Russia's Reserve Fund_ was finally exhausted in December 2017 and will formally cease to exist on February 1, 2018, the Finance Ministry reported on Wednesday. ... _Russian_ finance officials originally expected the _Reserve Fund_ to _empty_ out in early 2017, but it lasted an extra year, thanks to the price of oil ...


----------



## Lewdog

That great Putin guy that is now one of the richest men in the world, what has he done outside of being an employee of the KGB and a politician to earn it?


----------



## Tehon

Lewdog said:


> That great Putin guy that is now one of the richest men in the world, what has he done outside of being an employee of the KGB and a politician to earn it?


How do you know what he is worth?


----------



## Tehon

Wry Catcher said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything anyone needs  to know about Putin was on display last night on 60-Minutes.  Watch it and be horrified of the results of the nerve gas attack on civilians, and the bodies of men, women and dozens of children.
> 
> Support for the Butcher of Syria by Russia is evil!
> 
> *WARNING THIS VIDEO IS GRAPHIC AND ENOUGH TO MAKE ANYONE WITH EMPATHY CRY AND/OR ENRAGED!
> *
> What a chemical attack in Syria looks like
> 
> 
> 
> Now Mattis admits there was no evidence Assad used poison gas on his people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mattis may not have the evidence, CBS has it in spades.
Click to expand...

I watched the show. They didn't provide any evidence. Your making it up.


----------



## Litwin

Lewdog said:


> That great Putin guy that is now one of the _*richest *_men in the world, what has he done outside of being an employee of the KGB and a politician to earn it?


*yes, *not just him but + all his *realities and friends *
*Vladimir Putin Is Richer Than Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates Combined ...*
fortune.com › International › Donald Trump
Jul 29, 2017 - Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos made waves this week when he briefly unseated Bill Gates as the _wealthiest_ person in the world, according to Bloomberg's tracker. The two U.S. tech titans are jockeying for the lead at around $90 billion each. But according to Hermitage Capital Management CEO Bill Browder, ...


----------



## Litwin

Tehon said:


> Lewdog said:
> 
> 
> 
> That great Putin guy that is now one of the richest men in the world, what has he done outside of being an employee of the KGB and a politician to earn it?
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know what he is worth?
Click to expand...

*Financier Bill Browder says Vladimir Putin is worth $200 billion*

Is Vladimir _Putin_ the _richest_ person in the world? This financier says he's worth more than Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos combined. Catherine Clifford. 1:16 PM ET Mon, 31 July 2017. CNBC.com. Vladimir _Putin_. Alexander Zemlianichenko | Pool | Reuters. Vladimir _Putin_ ...


----------



## Tehon

Litwin said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lewdog said:
> 
> 
> 
> That great Putin guy that is now one of the richest men in the world, what has he done outside of being an employee of the KGB and a politician to earn it?
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know what he is worth?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Financier Bill Browder says Vladimir Putin is worth $200 billion*
> 
> Is Vladimir _Putin_ the _richest_ person in the world? This financier says he's worth more than Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos combined. Catherine Clifford. 1:16 PM ET Mon, 31 July 2017. CNBC.com. Vladimir _Putin_. Alexander Zemlianichenko | Pool | Reuters. Vladimir _Putin_ ...
Click to expand...

That means nothing.


----------



## Litwin

Tehon said:


> Litwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lewdog said:
> 
> 
> 
> That great Putin guy that is now one of the richest men in the world, what has he done outside of being an employee of the KGB and a politician to earn it?
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know what he is worth?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Financier Bill Browder says Vladimir Putin is worth $200 billion*
> 
> Is Vladimir _Putin_ the _richest_ person in the world? This financier says he's worth more than Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos combined. Catherine Clifford. 1:16 PM ET Mon, 31 July 2017. CNBC.com. Vladimir _Putin_. Alexander Zemlianichenko | Pool | Reuters. Vladimir _Putin_ ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That means nothing.
Click to expand...

google : Dacha consumer cooperative *"Ozero"*
Ozero - Wikipedia


----------



## Tehon

Litwin said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Litwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lewdog said:
> 
> 
> 
> That great Putin guy that is now one of the richest men in the world, what has he done outside of being an employee of the KGB and a politician to earn it?
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know what he is worth?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Financier Bill Browder says Vladimir Putin is worth $200 billion*
> 
> Is Vladimir _Putin_ the _richest_ person in the world? This financier says he's worth more than Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos combined. Catherine Clifford. 1:16 PM ET Mon, 31 July 2017. CNBC.com. Vladimir _Putin_. Alexander Zemlianichenko | Pool | Reuters. Vladimir _Putin_ ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That means nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> google : Dacha consumer cooperative *"Ozero"*
> Ozero - Wikipedia
Click to expand...

Okay. And? 

You appear to be grasping at straws. 

Just admit that you don't know how much Putin is worth.


----------



## Litwin

Tehon said:


> Litwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Litwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lewdog said:
> 
> 
> 
> That great Putin guy that is now one of the richest men in the world, what has he done outside of being an employee of the KGB and a politician to earn it?
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know what he is worth?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Financier Bill Browder says Vladimir Putin is worth $200 billion*
> 
> Is Vladimir _Putin_ the _richest_ person in the world? This financier says he's worth more than Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos combined. Catherine Clifford. 1:16 PM ET Mon, 31 July 2017. CNBC.com. Vladimir _Putin_. Alexander Zemlianichenko | Pool | Reuters. Vladimir _Putin_ ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That means nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> google : Dacha consumer cooperative *"Ozero"*
> Ozero - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Okay. And?
> 
> You appear to be grasping at straws.
> 
> Just admit that you don't know how much Putin is worth.
Click to expand...

even his ex - wife has founds with capital 2 milliards. but you can keep loving vova putler, its so typical for extreme left and far right Useful idiots 

*Why Russia cultivates fringe groups on the far-right and far-left.*

May 4, 2017 - These movements appear to be modern incarnations of the types of “_useful idiots_” popularized in Soviet jargon. Unfortunately, the illiberal elements among America's _far_-_right_ have taken the bait. Look at the relationship and networks developing between Kremlin officials and America's Christian ...


----------



## Tehon

Litwin said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Litwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Litwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know what he is worth?
> 
> 
> 
> *Financier Bill Browder says Vladimir Putin is worth $200 billion*
> 
> Is Vladimir _Putin_ the _richest_ person in the world? This financier says he's worth more than Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos combined. Catherine Clifford. 1:16 PM ET Mon, 31 July 2017. CNBC.com. Vladimir _Putin_. Alexander Zemlianichenko | Pool | Reuters. Vladimir _Putin_ ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That means nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> google : Dacha consumer cooperative *"Ozero"*
> Ozero - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Okay. And?
> 
> You appear to be grasping at straws.
> 
> Just admit that you don't know how much Putin is worth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> even his ex - wife has founds with capital 2 milliards. but you can keep loving vova putler, its so typical for extreme left and far right Useful idiots
> 
> *Why Russia cultivates fringe groups on the far-right and far-left.*
> 
> May 4, 2017 - These movements appear to be modern incarnations of the types of “_useful idiots_” popularized in Soviet jargon. Unfortunately, the illiberal elements among America's _far_-_right_ have taken the bait. Look at the relationship and networks developing between Kremlin officials and America's Christian ...
Click to expand...

Useful idiots are those that accept propaganda at face value.

If there is no evidence to support the ridiculous assertions presented by the useful idiots in this thread then the assertions can be discarded as merely propaganda. The useful idiots readily accept the propaganda as fact because it fits their preconceived beliefs.

I've seen this before. Saddam Hussein is the prime example. Fifteen years ago the useful idiots were duped into a war that we are still fighting. I wasn't one of them then either.

You quite obviously have an agenda.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Tehon said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything anyone needs  to know about Putin was on display last night on 60-Minutes.  Watch it and be horrified of the results of the nerve gas attack on civilians, and the bodies of men, women and dozens of children.
> 
> Support for the Butcher of Syria by Russia is evil!
> 
> *WARNING THIS VIDEO IS GRAPHIC AND ENOUGH TO MAKE ANYONE WITH EMPATHY CRY AND/OR ENRAGED!
> *
> What a chemical attack in Syria looks like
> 
> 
> 
> Now Mattis admits there was no evidence Assad used poison gas on his people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mattis may not have the evidence, CBS has it in spades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I watched the show. They didn't provide any evidence. Your making it up.
Click to expand...


All those dead people, the kids and the infants, were extra's provided by Hollywood?  Good to know.  Thanks for offering a line of defense for Putin and this evil piece of shit; either you are stupid or one evil MFer.


----------



## Tehon

Wry Catcher said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything anyone needs  to know about Putin was on display last night on 60-Minutes.  Watch it and be horrified of the results of the nerve gas attack on civilians, and the bodies of men, women and dozens of children.
> 
> Support for the Butcher of Syria by Russia is evil!
> 
> *WARNING THIS VIDEO IS GRAPHIC AND ENOUGH TO MAKE ANYONE WITH EMPATHY CRY AND/OR ENRAGED!
> *
> What a chemical attack in Syria looks like
> 
> 
> 
> Now Mattis admits there was no evidence Assad used poison gas on his people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mattis may not have the evidence, CBS has it in spades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I watched the show. They didn't provide any evidence. Your making it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All those dead people, the kids and the infants, were extra's provided by Hollywood?  Good to know.  Thanks for offering a line of defense for Putin and this evil piece of shit; either you are stupid or one evil MFer.
> 
> View attachment 179192
Click to expand...

No, you ignorant fuck. You linked those kid's deaths to Putin and Assad. You claim CBS knows more than the Secretary of Defense. 

Where is the evidence that supports your belief? What is the evidence that you claim was provided by CBS that links the attack to Putin?


----------



## Tehon

Why the selective outrage from American's who are culpable for most of the suffering in the region?

Where is the outrage over the people suffering in Yemen? Libya? Iraq? Afghanistan? Raqqa?


----------



## Tehon

rightwinger , you justify your moniker. The country has shifted even further to the right. You fill the void vacated by those on the right who have moved to the extreme or alt right.


----------



## Stratford57

Tehon said:


> Why the selective outrage from American's who are culpable for most of the suffering in the region?
> 
> Where is the outrage over the people suffering in Yemen? Libya? Iraq? Afghanistan? Raqqa?


Russian UN envoy Vitaliy Churkin (who died in NY a year ago) commented on Samanta Power’s emotional speech about the humanitarian situation in Aleppo, where the US-backed rebels were losing a battle to the Russian-backed Syrian Army, on December 13, 2016.
_“Please, remember which country you represent. Please, remember the track record of your country,”_ Churkin told her.




‘Still looking for Iraqi WMDs?’ & other most memorable quotes from Vitaly Churkin

So, all you RW, Catcher, Litwin and others who suddenly started worrying about "dead people, kids and infants" allegedly killed by Assad, please, remember which country you represent.


----------



## Tehon

Western Lies about Lies over Syria’s East Ghouta

By Finian Cunningham


.....The comparison of East Ghouta with East Aleppo is real enough, but not in the make-believe propaganda nonsense way that Western media are portraying.

Audacious falsification by the Washington Post was further compounded this week when it tried to underscore the suffering in East Ghouta by claiming the area was “hit with chemical weapons in 2013 by the regime [sic]”.

That is an outrageous lie that has been already exposed by several independent journalists, such as Seymour Hersh, who showed that it was the Jaysh al Islam militants (the so-called “good rebels”) who carried out the 2013 atrocity against civilians under its control as a deliberate false flag attempt to trigger US military intervention in Syria. Similar to the stunt pulled last April in Khan Sheikhoun, in Idlib Province, which President Trump reacted to three days later with a barrage of 57 Tomahawk cruise missiles slamming into Syria.

The repugnant irony of Western media and the UN chief calling for tougher Western government intervention in Syria is that it is precisely because of Western governments intervening in Syria for regime change that has resulted in the present devastation and suffering of the country.

Western media will never tell the full story of how past US administrations in league with their NATO allies, Israel and other regional client regimes were plotting for years to destroy Syria as part of a wider war plan to control the oil-rich Middle East.

The proxy war in Syria for the past seven years has followed the war plan laid out by pro-Israeli American imperialists in Washington like Richard Perle and Douglas Feith. In their “Clean Break” plan from as far back as 1996, Syria and Iraq were a priority for “roll back” or regime change. The list of Mideast countries targeted by the US for regime change, including Syria and Iraq, was confirmed by American General Wesley Clark in 2007.

This is how the suffering in Syria we are witnessing today has come about.

Want to end the misery and horror in Syria? Then the US and its accomplices, including Britain and France, should get out of Syria and stop waging their covert war for regime change.

Western media will never elucidate that truth because their purpose is to tell lies about lies, and to manipulate Western public into supporting ever-more criminal war.

Western Lies about Lies over Syria’s East Ghouta


----------



## Stratford57

Tehon said:


> Western Lies about Lies over Syria’s East Ghouta
> 
> By Finian Cunningham
> 
> 
> .....The comparison of East Ghouta with East Aleppo is real enough, but not in the make-believe propaganda nonsense way that Western media are portraying.
> 
> Audacious falsification by the Washington Post was further compounded this week when it tried to underscore the suffering in East Ghouta by claiming the area was “hit with chemical weapons in 2013 by the regime [sic]”.
> 
> That is an outrageous lie that has been already exposed by several independent journalists, such as Seymour Hersh, who showed that it was the Jaysh al Islam militants (the so-called “good rebels”) who carried out the 2013 atrocity against civilians under its control as a deliberate false flag attempt to trigger US military intervention in Syria. Similar to the stunt pulled last April in Khan Sheikhoun, in Idlib Province, which President Trump reacted to three days later with a barrage of 57 Tomahawk cruise missiles slamming into Syria.
> 
> The repugnant irony of Western media and the UN chief calling for tougher Western government intervention in Syria is that it is precisely because of Western governments intervening in Syria for regime change that has resulted in the present devastation and suffering of the country.
> 
> Western media will never tell the full story of how past US administrations in league with their NATO allies, Israel and other regional client regimes were plotting for years to destroy Syria as part of a wider war plan to control the oil-rich Middle East.
> 
> The proxy war in Syria for the past seven years has followed the war plan laid out by pro-Israeli American imperialists in Washington like Richard Perle and Douglas Feith. In their “Clean Break” plan from as far back as 1996, Syria and Iraq were a priority for “roll back” or regime change. The list of Mideast countries targeted by the US for regime change, including Syria and Iraq, was confirmed by American General Wesley Clark in 2007.
> 
> This is how the suffering in Syria we are witnessing today has come about.
> 
> Want to end the misery and horror in Syria? Then the US and its accomplices, including Britain and France, should get out of Syria and stop waging their covert war for regime change.
> 
> Western media will never elucidate that truth because their purpose is to tell lies about lies, and to manipulate Western public into supporting ever-more criminal war.
> 
> Western Lies about Lies over Syria’s East Ghouta


Absolutely great post, Tehon, thank you!

USA and other countries (except for Russia) are present in Syria* illegally. *

The International Law says: Any military intervention into any country in the world from outside is legally possible in two cases: either at request from the lawful government or with the decision of UN Security Council. 

Russia is there at request from the lawful government. All anti-Russians, feel the difference!


----------



## Wry Catcher

Tehon said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything anyone needs  to know about Putin was on display last night on 60-Minutes.  Watch it and be horrified of the results of the nerve gas attack on civilians, and the bodies of men, women and dozens of children.
> 
> Support for the Butcher of Syria by Russia is evil!
> 
> *WARNING THIS VIDEO IS GRAPHIC AND ENOUGH TO MAKE ANYONE WITH EMPATHY CRY AND/OR ENRAGED!
> *
> What a chemical attack in Syria looks like
> 
> 
> 
> Now Mattis admits there was no evidence Assad used poison gas on his people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mattis may not have the evidence, CBS has it in spades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I watched the show. They didn't provide any evidence. Your making it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All those dead people, the kids and the infants, were extra's provided by Hollywood?  Good to know.  Thanks for offering a line of defense for Putin and this evil piece of shit; either you are stupid or one evil MFer.
> 
> View attachment 179192
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, you ignorant fuck. You linked those kid's deaths to Putin and Assad. You claim CBS knows more than the Secretary of Defense.
> 
> Where is the evidence that supports your belief? What is the evidence that you claim was provided by CBS that links the attack to Putin?
Click to expand...


Ignorance is not a character flaw, denial when willful is!

Who else has chemical weapons?  Who else has means, opportunity and motives?

Do you think Canada, Kuwait or Cambodia is the evil actor in these wanton murders?

"Dumb fuck"?  This us the evidence needed to classify you as irrelevant; someone who can not post a comment which is substantive, thoughtful or thought provoking is not worthy of my time, or the time of anyone who seeks the truth.


----------



## Stratford57

Wry Catcher said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now Mattis admits there was no evidence Assad used poison gas on his people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mattis may not have the evidence, CBS has it in spades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I watched the show. They didn't provide any evidence. Your making it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All those dead people, the kids and the infants, were extra's provided by Hollywood?  Good to know.  Thanks for offering a line of defense for Putin and this evil piece of shit; either you are stupid or one evil MFer.
> 
> View attachment 179192
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, you ignorant fuck. You linked those kid's deaths to Putin and Assad. You claim CBS knows more than the Secretary of Defense.
> 
> Where is the evidence that supports your belief? What is the evidence that you claim was provided by CBS that links the attack to Putin?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ignorance is not a character flaw, denial when willful is!
> 
> Who else has chemical weapons?  Who else has means, opportunity and motives?
> 
> Do you think Canada, Kuwait or Cambodia is the evil actor in these wanton murders?
> 
> "Dumb fuck"?  This us the evidence needed to classify you as irrelevant; someone who can not post a comment which is substantive, thoughtful or thought provoking is not worthy of my time, or the time of anyone who seeks the truth.
Click to expand...

ISIS has chlorine, zarine and a lot of reasons to apply it to hurt Assad.

NY Times:
The *Islamic State has used chemical weapons, including chlorine and sulfur mustard agents, at least 52 times* on the battlefield in Syria and Iraq according to the assessment by the IHS Conflict Monitor, a London-based intelligence collection and analysis service.
ISIS Used Chemical Arms at Least 52 Times in Syria and Iraq, Report Says

Syrian authorities have handed over a batch of documents with *the evidence of a rebel use of banned chemical agent against civilians near Aleppo *to the international chemical watchdog. Samples from the shell containing mustard gas are to be delivered to The Hague.
The documents were handed over in Damascus to the mission of the Technical Secretariat of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW).
Syria hands over evidence of mustard gas attack by rebels on civilians to OPCW (VIDEO)


----------



## Tehon

Wry Catcher said:


> Ignorance is not a character flaw, denial when willful is!


You deny the statements the Secretary of Defense made concerning the lack of evidence linking the attack to Assad. Is that not willful denial?

You claim CBS knows more than does Mattis. When asked for the evidence that justifies your assertion you misrepresented my position and surmised that I must be an evil mother fucker. WTF is wrong with you dude? What type of response did you expect?

The search for truth requires asking questions and seeking answers with an open mind, accepting them even when they don't align with your preconceived ideas. You're not seeking the truth, all that you are doing is pushing the narrative that has been carefully crafted for you.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Stratford57 said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why the selective outrage from American's who are culpable for most of the suffering in the region?
> 
> Where is the outrage over the people suffering in Yemen? Libya? Iraq? Afghanistan? Raqqa?
> 
> 
> 
> Russian UN envoy Vitaliy Churkin (who died in NY a year ago) commented on Samanta Power’s emotional speech about the humanitarian situation in Aleppo, where the US-backed rebels were losing a battle to the Russian-backed Syrian Army, on December 13, 2016.
> _“Please, remember which country you represent. Please, remember the track record of your country,”_ Churkin told her.
> 
> View attachment 179200
> ‘Still looking for Iraqi WMDs?’ & other most memorable quotes from Vitaly Churkin
> 
> So, all you RW, Catcher, Litwin and others who suddenly started worrying about "dead people, kids and infants" allegedly killed by Assad, please, remember which country you represent.
Click to expand...


Your premise which attacks my patriotism is missing substance.  Please post how you reason my outrage by the use of chemical gas on civilians in Syria, disregards the attacks on civilians here or over seas?  

BTW, I expressed my dismay and concern for all people, regardless of demographics, by terrorists; including the military of nation states and those who enable them, such as our own NRA.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Tehon said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ignorance is not a character flaw, denial when willful is!
> 
> 
> 
> You deny the statements the Secretary of Defense made concerning the lack of evidence linking the attack to Assad. Is that not willful denial?
> 
> You claim CBS knows more than does Mattis. When asked for the evidence that justifies your assertion you misrepresented my position and surmised that I must be an evil mother fucker. WTF is wrong with you dude? What type of response did you expect?
> 
> The search for truth requires asking questions and seeking answers with an open mind, accepting them even when they don't align with your preconceived ideas. You're not seeking the truth, all that you are doing is pushing the narrative that has been carefully crafted for you.
Click to expand...


Oh bullshit.  The video was concrete evidence of the use of nerve gas, something Trump&Co. did not provide (likely because Trump fears offending Putin).  What other nation states had motive, opportunity and means?

I won't deny the SecDef made the statements you referred to, and your comments (I inferred) were meant to protect the most inept and unfit Executive Administration - from top to those who got fired or quit - in our history.

But I'm pragmatic and think panoptically on most issues, especially on use of force.  Which is why I believe anyone who supports Trump is seriously misguided, and those who deny Putin's Russia and Assad's intent are not evil.


----------



## Stratford57

Wry Catcher said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why the selective outrage from American's who are culpable for most of the suffering in the region?
> 
> Where is the outrage over the people suffering in Yemen? Libya? Iraq? Afghanistan? Raqqa?
> 
> 
> 
> Russian UN envoy Vitaliy Churkin (who died in NY a year ago) commented on Samanta Power’s emotional speech about the humanitarian situation in Aleppo, where the US-backed rebels were losing a battle to the Russian-backed Syrian Army, on December 13, 2016.
> _“Please, remember which country you represent. Please, remember the track record of your country,”_ Churkin told her.
> 
> View attachment 179200
> ‘Still looking for Iraqi WMDs?’ & other most memorable quotes from Vitaly Churkin
> 
> So, all you RW, Catcher, Litwin and others who suddenly started worrying about "dead people, kids and infants" allegedly killed by Assad, please, remember which country you represent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your premise which attacks my patriotism is missing substance.  Please post how you reason my outrage by the use of chemical gas on civilians in Syria, disregards the attacks on civilians here or over seas?
> 
> BTW, I expressed my dismay and concern for all people, regardless of demographics, by terrorists; including the military of nation states and those who enable them, such as our own NRA.
Click to expand...

Ok, where all your concerns have been when your country was bombing Serbia, Libya, Iraq?  When US coalition under commander-in-chief Obama started cleaning Mosul from civilians (they allowed a lot of terrorists to safely leave Mosul before they started destroying it).

Mosul: (Reuters)
MOSUL, Iraq (Reuters) - The Iraqis who have come home to Mosul’s Old City knew it would be hard living in the rubble left by the battle against Islamic State, but there is one aspect of their surroundings they are finding unbearable seven months on.

Local residents and officials in predominantly Sunni Mosul say t*here are also thousands of civilian bodies yet to be retrieved from the ruins.*

“I don’t want my children to have to walk past dead bodies in the street every day,” said Abdelrazaq Abdullah, back with his wife and three children in the quarter where the militants made their last stand in July against Iraqi and U.S.-led coalition forces.
Battle over bodies rages quietly in Iraq's Mosul long after Islamic...

--

Besides:

Republican member of the Virginia State Senate Richard Hayden Black talks to Press TV* about ties between Washington and Daesh, further exposing the true “axis of evil” in the Middle East.*

“*If the United States had just stayed out of it at that point, the war would be over by now*; people would be rebuilding, refugees would be returning back to Syria, but the United States rushed anti-Tank missiles, and we used these so-called moderate rebels as a conduit to supply al-Nusra, which is al-Qaeda in Syria,” he noted.

“If we were not supporting the war in Syria, I believe that the Syrians, combined with their allied forces from Iran, Lebanon and Russia… would move very steadily and restore the borders of Syria.”
PressTV-Senator exposes Washington's ties with Daesh

If you truly want to save civilians' lives in Syria, get the hell out of it and quit supporting, arming, training and financing terrorists there.


----------



## Baron

Stratford57 said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything anyone needs  to know about Putin was on display last night on 60-Minutes.  Watch it and be horrified of the results of the nerve gas attack on civilians, and the bodies of men, women and dozens of children.
> 
> Support for the Butcher of Syria by Russia is evil!
> 
> *WARNING THIS VIDEO IS GRAPHIC AND ENOUGH TO MAKE ANYONE WITH EMPATHY CRY AND/OR ENRAGED!
> *
> What a chemical attack in Syria looks like
> 
> 
> 
> Now Mattis admits there was no evidence Assad used poison gas on his people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mattis may not have the evidence, CBS has it in spades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The alleged chemical attack took place in ISIS controlled territory in Damascus suburbs area. ISIS had a lot more chances to pull it out than Assad. And ISIS had reasons for that while Assad did not. Why? Because it hurts Assad and helps ISIS.
> 
> Besides, your favorite “leader” Obama has confirmed that Assad got rid of all his chemical weapons.
> On 18 August 2014, all of the most toxic chemicals had been destroyed offshore.
> Destruction of Syria's chemical weapons - Wikipedia
> 
> Lavrov said today: "Mass media released fake news saying that chlorine was used yesterday or this morning in Eastern Ghouta (a Damascus suburb - TASS), referring to an anonymous source living in the US."
> 
> "The attempts (at misinformation) will continue for the sole purpose of discrediting government forces and blaming them for all mortal sins and war crimes," he said. "This will be done with the aim of systematically pushing ahead with actions that we already observe *in the eastern regions of Syria, where the United States is enforcing its scenario of creating a quasi-state and dismembering the country.* We will continue to discuss this theme further on with the Americans and with their allies in the coalition."
> 
> "They (the US and its allies - TASS) should explain why these actions are taken despite the fact that Resolution 2401 proved the need for Syria’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. So, there are many questions here," he said.
> Russian top diplomat forecasts more 'fake news' aimed at tearing apart Syria
Click to expand...


Deep State and Israel are hardly working on the Project 'Greater Israel'. Therefore Russia and Syrian will be always wrong because they do not want  give freely 90% of Syria to Israel.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Stratford57 said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why the selective outrage from American's who are culpable for most of the suffering in the region?
> 
> Where is the outrage over the people suffering in Yemen? Libya? Iraq? Afghanistan? Raqqa?
> 
> 
> 
> Russian UN envoy Vitaliy Churkin (who died in NY a year ago) commented on Samanta Power’s emotional speech about the humanitarian situation in Aleppo, where the US-backed rebels were losing a battle to the Russian-backed Syrian Army, on December 13, 2016.
> _“Please, remember which country you represent. Please, remember the track record of your country,”_ Churkin told her.
> 
> View attachment 179200
> ‘Still looking for Iraqi WMDs?’ & other most memorable quotes from Vitaly Churkin
> 
> So, all you RW, Catcher, Litwin and others who suddenly started worrying about "dead people, kids and infants" allegedly killed by Assad, please, remember which country you represent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your premise which attacks my patriotism is missing substance.  Please post how you reason my outrage by the use of chemical gas on civilians in Syria, disregards the attacks on civilians here or over seas?
> 
> BTW, I expressed my dismay and concern for all people, regardless of demographics, by terrorists; including the military of nation states and those who enable them, such as our own NRA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, where all your concerns have been when your country was bombing Serbia, Libya, Iraq?  When US coalition under commander-in-chief Obama started cleaning Mosul from civilians (they allowed a lot of terrorists to safely leave Mosul before they started destroying it).
> 
> Mosul: (Reuters)
> MOSUL, Iraq (Reuters) - The Iraqis who have come home to Mosul’s Old City knew it would be hard living in the rubble left by the battle against Islamic State, but there is one aspect of their surroundings they are finding unbearable seven months on.
> 
> Local residents and officials in predominantly Sunni Mosul say t*here are also thousands of civilian bodies yet to be retrieved from the ruins.*
> 
> “I don’t want my children to have to walk past dead bodies in the street every day,” said Abdelrazaq Abdullah, back with his wife and three children in the quarter where the militants made their last stand in July against Iraqi and U.S.-led coalition forces.
> Battle over bodies rages quietly in Iraq's Mosul long after Islamic...
> 
> --
> 
> Besides:
> 
> Republican member of the Virginia State Senate Richard Hayden Black talks to Press TV* about ties between Washington and Daesh, further exposing the true “axis of evil” in the Middle East.*
> 
> “*If the United States had just stayed out of it at that point, the war would be over by now*; people would be rebuilding, refugees would be returning back to Syria, but the United States rushed anti-Tank missiles, and we used these so-called moderate rebels as a conduit to supply al-Nusra, which is al-Qaeda in Syria,” he noted.
> 
> “If we were not supporting the war in Syria, I believe that the Syrians, combined with their allied forces from Iran, Lebanon and Russia… would move very steadily and restore the borders of Syria.”
> PressTV-Senator exposes Washington's ties with Daesh
> 
> If you truly want to save civilians' lives in Syria, get the hell out of it and quit supporting, arming, training and financing terrorists there.
> 
> View attachment 179300
Click to expand...


Tell this to Trump&Co.  I doubt very much Assad, with the aid of Putin, will stop until he has eradicated all opposition to his rule.  The US did not use chemical weapons, and real conservatives and liberals believe we have wasted too much blood and treasure since Bush II declared a war on terror.

Your simple explanation for peace in our times is ridiculous,  but unlike you, I don't have any simple solutions to many of the issues facing the US at this time.  We have a fool in the White House, and the leadership in the H. or Rep and the Senate are more concerned with their job, and the power they have, than anything else.


----------



## Stratford57

Wry Catcher said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why the selective outrage from American's who are culpable for most of the suffering in the region?
> 
> Where is the outrage over the people suffering in Yemen? Libya? Iraq? Afghanistan? Raqqa?
> 
> 
> 
> Russian UN envoy Vitaliy Churkin (who died in NY a year ago) commented on Samanta Power’s emotional speech about the humanitarian situation in Aleppo, where the US-backed rebels were losing a battle to the Russian-backed Syrian Army, on December 13, 2016.
> _“Please, remember which country you represent. Please, remember the track record of your country,”_ Churkin told her.
> 
> View attachment 179200
> ‘Still looking for Iraqi WMDs?’ & other most memorable quotes from Vitaly Churkin
> 
> So, all you RW, Catcher, Litwin and others who suddenly started worrying about "dead people, kids and infants" allegedly killed by Assad, please, remember which country you represent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your premise which attacks my patriotism is missing substance.  Please post how you reason my outrage by the use of chemical gas on civilians in Syria, disregards the attacks on civilians here or over seas?
> 
> BTW, I expressed my dismay and concern for all people, regardless of demographics, by terrorists; including the military of nation states and those who enable them, such as our own NRA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, where all your concerns have been when your country was bombing Serbia, Libya, Iraq?  When US coalition under commander-in-chief Obama started cleaning Mosul from civilians (they allowed a lot of terrorists to safely leave Mosul before they started destroying it).
> 
> Mosul: (Reuters)
> MOSUL, Iraq (Reuters) - The Iraqis who have come home to Mosul’s Old City knew it would be hard living in the rubble left by the battle against Islamic State, but there is one aspect of their surroundings they are finding unbearable seven months on.
> 
> Local residents and officials in predominantly Sunni Mosul say t*here are also thousands of civilian bodies yet to be retrieved from the ruins.*
> 
> “I don’t want my children to have to walk past dead bodies in the street every day,” said Abdelrazaq Abdullah, back with his wife and three children in the quarter where the militants made their last stand in July against Iraqi and U.S.-led coalition forces.
> Battle over bodies rages quietly in Iraq's Mosul long after Islamic...
> 
> --
> 
> Besides:
> 
> Republican member of the Virginia State Senate Richard Hayden Black talks to Press TV* about ties between Washington and Daesh, further exposing the true “axis of evil” in the Middle East.*
> 
> “*If the United States had just stayed out of it at that point, the war would be over by now*; people would be rebuilding, refugees would be returning back to Syria, but the United States rushed anti-Tank missiles, and we used these so-called moderate rebels as a conduit to supply al-Nusra, which is al-Qaeda in Syria,” he noted.
> 
> “If we were not supporting the war in Syria, I believe that the Syrians, combined with their allied forces from Iran, Lebanon and Russia… would move very steadily and restore the borders of Syria.”
> PressTV-Senator exposes Washington's ties with Daesh
> 
> If you truly want to save civilians' lives in Syria, get the hell out of it and quit supporting, arming, training and financing terrorists there.
> 
> View attachment 179300
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell this to Trump&Co.  I doubt very much Assad, with the aid of Putin, will stop until he has eradicated all opposition to his rule.  The US did not use chemical weapons, and real conservatives and liberals believe we have wasted too much blood and treasure since Bush II declared a war on terror.
> 
> Your simple explanation for peace in our times is ridiculous,  but unlike you, I don't have any simple solutions to many of the issues facing the US at this time.  We have a fool in the White House, and the leadership in the H. or Rep and the Senate are more concerned with their job, and the power they have, than anything else.
Click to expand...

Oh, yes, let's blame "a fool in WH" for the wars which Obama has started.


----------



## Tehon

Wry Catcher said:


> What other nation states had motive, opportunity and means?


The United States and its Western allies are in Syria supporting terrorists determined to overthrow the Syrian government. Equals motive, opportunity and means.


----------



## Selivan

Не надоело тарахтеть на отшибе?


----------



## Wry Catcher

Tehon said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> What other nation states had motive, opportunity and means?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States and its Western allies are in Syria supporting terrorists determined to overthrow the Syrian government. Equals motive, opportunity and means.
Click to expand...


Ah Ha, you're a conspiracy guy.  The fringe people's grist, along with alternate realities using one or more lies, half-truth, rumors or innuendos to support your beliefs; in this case the innuendo.

What motive do you imagine the US and/or its allies choose to kill civilians in a tiny village in Syria?  I admit Trump might do something such as this, since he never seems to think of the consequences of his words, but the risk of so many members of our military to carry out a war crime and keep it secret is so absurd only real crazies believe it.


----------



## Stratford57

Tehon said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> What other nation states had motive, opportunity and means?
> 
> 
> 
> The United States and its Western allies are in Syria supporting terrorists determined to overthrow the Syrian government. Equals motive, opportunity and means.
Click to expand...

It looks like Western "leaders" and terrorists have been working together for quite a while. When terrorists are losing, their Western bosses tell them to use or to imitate using of chemical weapons, so that their bosses can start another big offense against Assad. It's pretty obvious: terrorists in ME and Nazis in Ukraine have been controlled by Western "leaders" .


----------



## Wry Catcher

Stratford57 said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> What other nation states had motive, opportunity and means?
> 
> 
> 
> The United States and its Western allies are in Syria supporting terrorists determined to overthrow the Syrian government. Equals motive, opportunity and means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It looks like Western "leaders" and terrorists have been working together for quite a while. When terrorists are losing, their Western bosses tell them to use or to imitate using of chemical weapons, so that their bosses can start another big offense against Assad. It's pretty obvious: terrorists in ME and Nazis in Ukraine have been controlled by Western "leaders" .
Click to expand...


It's as clear as most conspiracy addicts believe it is, most rational people will reject such an argument based solely on the opinions of kooks who echo each other.


----------



## Stratford57

Wry Catcher said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> What other nation states had motive, opportunity and means?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States and its Western allies are in Syria supporting terrorists determined to overthrow the Syrian government. Equals motive, opportunity and means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah Ha, you're a conspiracy guy.  The fringe people's grist, along with alternate realities using one or more lies, half-truth, rumors or innuendos to support your beliefs; in this case the innuendo.
> 
> What motive do you imagine the US and/or its allies choose to kill civilians in a tiny village in Syria?  I admit Trump might do something such as this, since he never seems to think of the consequences of his words, but the risk of so many members of our military to carry out a war crime and keep it secret is so absurd only real crazies believe it.
Click to expand...

And motive did Obama choose to start the wars in Syria and Libya? The motive was to destabilize ME and it hasn't changed.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Stratford57 said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> What other nation states had motive, opportunity and means?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States and its Western allies are in Syria supporting terrorists determined to overthrow the Syrian government. Equals motive, opportunity and means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah Ha, you're a conspiracy guy.  The fringe people's grist, along with alternate realities using one or more lies, half-truth, rumors or innuendos to support your beliefs; in this case the innuendo.
> 
> What motive do you imagine the US and/or its allies choose to kill civilians in a tiny village in Syria?  I admit Trump might do something such as this, since he never seems to think of the consequences of his words, but the risk of so many members of our military to carry out a war crime and keep it secret is so absurd only real crazies believe it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And motive did Obama choose to start the wars in Syria and Libya? The motive was to destabilize ME and it hasn't changed.
Click to expand...


"There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination." *It is an area which we call the Idiot Fringe.*


----------



## Tehon

Wry Catcher said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> What other nation states had motive, opportunity and means?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States and its Western allies are in Syria supporting terrorists determined to overthrow the Syrian government. Equals motive, opportunity and means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah Ha, you're a conspiracy guy.  The fringe people's grist, along with alternate realities using one or more lies, half-truth, rumors or innuendos to support your beliefs; in this case the innuendo.
> 
> What motive do you imagine the US and/or its allies choose to kill civilians in a tiny village in Syria?  I admit Trump might do something such as this, since he never seems to think of the consequences of his words, but the risk of so many members of our military to carry out a war crime and keep it secret is so absurd only real crazies believe it.
Click to expand...

This is not delusion.
The USG has openly acknowledge their efforts to support the Syrian opposition.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Tehon said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> What other nation states had motive, opportunity and means?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States and its Western allies are in Syria supporting terrorists determined to overthrow the Syrian government. Equals motive, opportunity and means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah Ha, you're a conspiracy guy.  The fringe people's grist, along with alternate realities using one or more lies, half-truth, rumors or innuendos to support your beliefs; in this case the innuendo.
> 
> What motive do you imagine the US and/or its allies choose to kill civilians in a tiny village in Syria?  I admit Trump might do something such as this, since he never seems to think of the consequences of his words, but the risk of so many members of our military to carry out a war crime and keep it secret is so absurd only real crazies believe it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is not delusion.
> The USG has openly acknowledge their efforts to support the Syrian opposition.
Click to expand...


The US Government has made no secret in supporting the victims of Assad and Putin's war crimes.  What evidence do you have that the USG decided to kill the victims?  That would be stupid, and even Trump (I hope) is not that  stupid.


----------



## deanrd

Stratford57 said:


> Stephen Cohen, Interview to Russian Channel One, Jan. 2018:
> 
> Demonization of Putin is one of the biggest threats to our [American] national security. For the next 1 or 2 years after Putin first came to power (as a Prime Minister in December 1999) American press was treating him very positively. _NYT even wrote he was a Democrat, who wants reforms and would be better than Yeltsin because he was younger and healthier._ When I [S.C.] asked them: “Why are you sure he’s a Democrat?” do you know what they said? They said: ”Because he’s from Yeltsin. Everything’s gonna be ok.”
> 
> They were just shocked when Putin started saying: “Russia is a sovereign country”, ”Russia has her own policy”, “We want to be partners with US but it’s a two-way street”. _A well known NYT journalist literally wrote: “I’m disappointed and shocked that Putin has not become a sober Yeltsin.”_
> 
> Now all the masks have been taken off.
> 
> Unfortunately, we have a short memory and have already forgotten that *after 9/11 Putin was the first who called Bush* and said: “That was terrible. How can we help you guys?”
> 
> Then US went to war in Afghanistan to destroy Taliban and *Putin helped US to get the victory in this war with minimum losses more than anybody else, even more than any NATO country.*
> 
> *Putin also shared his intelligence data with USA* and so on and on. He was even criticized in Russia, so for a while he looked more like  being pro-American leader, not even a bit anti-American.
> 
> During Gorbachev’s times American political class started treating Russia as a satellite country who was supposed to follow the orders from USA not only in foreign policy but in internal affairs as well. _After Yeltsin left and Putin came the people who dealt with foreign affairs in USA were absolutely sure they would continue to do whatever they were doing with Russia for the next 10 years at least._ And suddenly they figured out they were wrong and that’s why all those controversies started: with Georgia, Ukraine, etc.
> 
> For those who know Russian:
> Выпуск программы "Воскресное время" в 21:00  11 февраля 2018 года. Новости. Первый канал
> starts at 1 hour 8 minutes and ends at 1 hour 14 minutes of the program ^.
> 
> Stephen F. Cohen - Wikipedia


Trump has discovered who they truly are.  They are his friends.


----------



## Stratford57

Wry Catcher said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> What other nation states had motive, opportunity and means?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States and its Western allies are in Syria supporting terrorists determined to overthrow the Syrian government. Equals motive, opportunity and means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah Ha, you're a conspiracy guy.  The fringe people's grist, along with alternate realities using one or more lies, half-truth, rumors or innuendos to support your beliefs; in this case the innuendo.
> 
> What motive do you imagine the US and/or its allies choose to kill civilians in a tiny village in Syria?  I admit Trump might do something such as this, since he never seems to think of the consequences of his words, but the risk of so many members of our military to carry out a war crime and keep it secret is so absurd only real crazies believe it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And motive did Obama choose to start the wars in Syria and Libya? The motive was to destabilize ME and it hasn't changed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination." *It is an area which we call the Idiot Fringe.*
Click to expand...

You must be talking about yourself and those who believe Soros owned Media and live in a parallel world where "Russians elected the president of USA and he helps them to control their country".

CNN Claims Russians Used ‘Pokémon Go’ - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com

Looks like Hollywood has been creating those "news" your Media keeps delivering you.


----------



## deanrd

Stratford57 said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> What other nation states had motive, opportunity and means?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States and its Western allies are in Syria supporting terrorists determined to overthrow the Syrian government. Equals motive, opportunity and means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah Ha, you're a conspiracy guy.  The fringe people's grist, along with alternate realities using one or more lies, half-truth, rumors or innuendos to support your beliefs; in this case the innuendo.
> 
> What motive do you imagine the US and/or its allies choose to kill civilians in a tiny village in Syria?  I admit Trump might do something such as this, since he never seems to think of the consequences of his words, but the risk of so many members of our military to carry out a war crime and keep it secret is so absurd only real crazies believe it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And motive did Obama choose to start the wars in Syria and Libya? The motive was to destabilize ME and it hasn't changed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination." *It is an area which we call the Idiot Fringe.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You must be talking about yourself and those who believe Soros owned Media and live in a parallel world where "Russians elected the president of USA and he helps them to control their country".
> 
> CNN Claims Russians Used ‘Pokémon Go’ - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com
> 
> Looks like Hollywood has been creating those "news" your Media keeps delivering you.
Click to expand...

Controlling is different than "taking orders from".

Like Trump taking orders from Putin.


----------



## Tehon

Wry Catcher said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> What other nation states had motive, opportunity and means?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States and its Western allies are in Syria supporting terrorists determined to overthrow the Syrian government. Equals motive, opportunity and means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah Ha, you're a conspiracy guy.  The fringe people's grist, along with alternate realities using one or more lies, half-truth, rumors or innuendos to support your beliefs; in this case the innuendo.
> 
> What motive do you imagine the US and/or its allies choose to kill civilians in a tiny village in Syria?  I admit Trump might do something such as this, since he never seems to think of the consequences of his words, but the risk of so many members of our military to carry out a war crime and keep it secret is so absurd only real crazies believe it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is not delusion.
> The USG has openly acknowledge their efforts to support the Syrian opposition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The US Government has made no secret in supporting the victims of Assad and Putin's war crimes.  What evidence do you have that the USG decided to kill the victims?  That would be stupid, and even Trump (I hope) is not that  stupid.
Click to expand...

Those victims specifically, the same as you have, none. We were talking only of motive. 

Now do you want to pretend that the USG has qualms about killing innocents to achieve its objectives?


----------



## Wry Catcher

Stratford57 said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> What other nation states had motive, opportunity and means?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States and its Western allies are in Syria supporting terrorists determined to overthrow the Syrian government. Equals motive, opportunity and means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah Ha, you're a conspiracy guy.  The fringe people's grist, along with alternate realities using one or more lies, half-truth, rumors or innuendos to support your beliefs; in this case the innuendo.
> 
> What motive do you imagine the US and/or its allies choose to kill civilians in a tiny village in Syria?  I admit Trump might do something such as this, since he never seems to think of the consequences of his words, but the risk of so many members of our military to carry out a war crime and keep it secret is so absurd only real crazies believe it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And motive did Obama choose to start the wars in Syria and Libya? The motive was to destabilize ME and it hasn't changed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination." *It is an area which we call the Idiot Fringe.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You must be talking about yourself and those who believe Soros owned Media and live in a parallel world where "Russians elected the president of USA and he helps them to control their country".
> 
> CNN Claims Russians Used ‘Pokémon Go’ - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com
> 
> Looks like Hollywood has been creating those "news" your Media keeps delivering you.
Click to expand...


Too many words wasted on a simple ad hominem.  Your first paragraph is challenging, the syntax needs work.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Tehon said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> What other nation states had motive, opportunity and means?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States and its Western allies are in Syria supporting terrorists determined to overthrow the Syrian government. Equals motive, opportunity and means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah Ha, you're a conspiracy guy.  The fringe people's grist, along with alternate realities using one or more lies, half-truth, rumors or innuendos to support your beliefs; in this case the innuendo.
> 
> What motive do you imagine the US and/or its allies choose to kill civilians in a tiny village in Syria?  I admit Trump might do something such as this, since he never seems to think of the consequences of his words, but the risk of so many members of our military to carry out a war crime and keep it secret is so absurd only real crazies believe it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is not delusion.
> The USG has openly acknowledge their efforts to support the Syrian opposition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The US Government has made no secret in supporting the victims of Assad and Putin's war crimes.  What evidence do you have that the USG decided to kill the victims?  That would be stupid, and even Trump (I hope) is not that  stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those victims specifically, the same as you have, none. We were talking only of motive.
> 
> Now do you want to pretend that the USG has qualms about killing innocents to achieve its objectives?
Click to expand...


No, there have been cases of unintended consequences in every use of military action; cover ups, denial rarely work (.  The difference is, very few are intended by our forces, the same cannot be said for Assad, Putin and other despots throughout history).

I still remember MyLai, for those too young to remember, herein is a link to this graphic example:

William Calley Lives


----------



## Stratford57

Tehon said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> What other nation states had motive, opportunity and means?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States and its Western allies are in Syria supporting terrorists determined to overthrow the Syrian government. Equals motive, opportunity and means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah Ha, you're a conspiracy guy.  The fringe people's grist, along with alternate realities using one or more lies, half-truth, rumors or innuendos to support your beliefs; in this case the innuendo.
> 
> What motive do you imagine the US and/or its allies choose to kill civilians in a tiny village in Syria?  I admit Trump might do something such as this, since he never seems to think of the consequences of his words, but the risk of so many members of our military to carry out a war crime and keep it secret is so absurd only real crazies believe it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is not delusion.
> The USG has openly acknowledge their efforts to support the Syrian opposition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The US Government has made no secret in supporting the victims of Assad and Putin's war crimes.  What evidence do you have that the USG decided to kill the victims?  That would be stupid, and even Trump (I hope) is not that  stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those victims specifically, the same as you have, none. We were talking only of motive.
> 
> Now do you want to pretend that the USG has qualms about killing innocents to achieve its objectives?
Click to expand...

Some facts confirming your point:
1. Thanks to the irresponsible foreign policies of *both President Obama and Hillary Clinton, the terrorist group ISIS has been allowed to spread in more than 30 Nations*. This group has caused a lot of damage to United States soldiers and civilians.

Meanwhile President *Obama and Clinton have never come up with a plan to completely destroy ISIS. Despite the fact that they are the ones that helped create them in the first place, they don’t seem keen on making sure they don’t spread.* As a result, other nations have been forced to help clean up their mess.

Russian military leaders have said that President *Obama is allowing thousands of ISIS fighters to be given a safe passage out of Iraq!* They would then be let back into the country to fight against the Russian army, or go somewhere else to fight them!

The military source in Moscow said: “*In preparation for the operation in Mosul, US intelligence agencies and Saudi Arabia agreed that before the assault all militants will be offered a safe route to leave the city with their families.”*

President Obama is literally allowing people to leave the city!
BREAKING: Obama Approved Operation To Release 9,000 ISIS Soldiers Inside Moscow - Conservative Daily Post
--

2.  The CIA has been coordinating weapon deliveries on the Turkey-Syria border, German journalist Jurgen Todenhofer, who recently spoke with a Jabhat al-Nusra commander, said. He added that the *US knows that the weapons it delivers to rebels end up with terrorists.*

*‘US knows weapons sent to Syrian rebels end up with terrorists’ – German journo to RT*
*Watch the video ^, the jihadist is telling how Washington supports them.
*
In response to a recent State Department release which said the US had not been supporting terrorists, but some of its allies could have been, Todenhofer said, _“maybe there were allies in between. But everybody knows that they are using allies and they are allowing allies... It doesn’t matter if a TOW rocket or a TOW missile, which is an American missile, comes [to terrorists] from another group.”_

Todenhofer said that when a terrorist group wants the weapons which are supplied to rebels it changes its name and from that point it belongs to the so-called ’moderate opposition.’

_“In a certain way he [the Jabhat al-Nusra commander] is repeating what Pentagon said four years ago,”_ he stated. “*They are trying to get rid of Assad with the help of the rebels*,” the journalist concluded.


In the interview the *Jabhat al-Nusra unit commander Abu Al Ezz said that US weapons are being delivered to the terrorist group by governments that Washington supports* and American instructors have been providing instruction on how to use them. “Yes, the US supports the opposition [in Syria], but not directly. They support the countries that support us. But we are not yet satisfied with this support,” he said.

He also echoed claims made by Moscow and the Syrian government that the *militants were using the Syrian ceasefire, agreed on by Russia and US on September 9, to prepare for a new offensive*. _“We do not recognize the ceasefire. We will regroup our groups. We will carry out the next overwhelming attack against the regime in a few days,”_ he said.
‘US knows weapons sent to Syrian rebels end up with terrorists’ – German journo to RT

Jurgen Todenhofer: In Iraq the Saddam's overthrowing cost 1 million lives;  in Libya Qaddafi's overthrowing cost 500 thousand lives; in Syria for the sake of Assad's overthrowing 400  thousand people have been already killed. I'd like to ask: how many innocent people have to be killed to overthrow "the dictator"? This is a moral question, which Washington has to answer.
---
Churkin to UN Security Council: There are representatives of certain countries in this room, everybody knows their countries are financing and supplying terrorists with weapons: ISIS, Nusra and many others. *Stop supplying the terrorists with the weapons and you’ll see how quickly the humanitarian situation in Syria will get better.*


----------



## Tehon

Wry Catcher said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> The United States and its Western allies are in Syria supporting terrorists determined to overthrow the Syrian government. Equals motive, opportunity and means.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah Ha, you're a conspiracy guy.  The fringe people's grist, along with alternate realities using one or more lies, half-truth, rumors or innuendos to support your beliefs; in this case the innuendo.
> 
> What motive do you imagine the US and/or its allies choose to kill civilians in a tiny village in Syria?  I admit Trump might do something such as this, since he never seems to think of the consequences of his words, but the risk of so many members of our military to carry out a war crime and keep it secret is so absurd only real crazies believe it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is not delusion.
> The USG has openly acknowledge their efforts to support the Syrian opposition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The US Government has made no secret in supporting the victims of Assad and Putin's war crimes.  What evidence do you have that the USG decided to kill the victims?  That would be stupid, and even Trump (I hope) is not that  stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those victims specifically, the same as you have, none. We were talking only of motive.
> 
> Now do you want to pretend that the USG has qualms about killing innocents to achieve its objectives?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, there have been cases of unintended consequences in every use of military action; cover ups, denial rarely work (.  The difference is, very few are intended by our forces, the same cannot be said for Assad, Putin and other despots throughout history).
> 
> I still remember MyLai, for those too young to remember, herein is a link to this graphic example:
> 
> William Calley Lives
Click to expand...

The USG regularly kills innocents wherever they intervene.

The USG is Intervening in Syria as we speak.

The Syrian government, regardless what you think of it, is defending itself from the above-mentioned intervention.

These are the facts.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Tehon said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah Ha, you're a conspiracy guy.  The fringe people's grist, along with alternate realities using one or more lies, half-truth, rumors or innuendos to support your beliefs; in this case the innuendo.
> 
> What motive do you imagine the US and/or its allies choose to kill civilians in a tiny village in Syria?  I admit Trump might do something such as this, since he never seems to think of the consequences of his words, but the risk of so many members of our military to carry out a war crime and keep it secret is so absurd only real crazies believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not delusion.
> The USG has openly acknowledge their efforts to support the Syrian opposition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The US Government has made no secret in supporting the victims of Assad and Putin's war crimes.  What evidence do you have that the USG decided to kill the victims?  That would be stupid, and even Trump (I hope) is not that  stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those victims specifically, the same as you have, none. We were talking only of motive.
> 
> Now do you want to pretend that the USG has qualms about killing innocents to achieve its objectives?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, there have been cases of unintended consequences in every use of military action; cover ups, denial rarely work (.  The difference is, very few are intended by our forces, the same cannot be said for Assad, Putin and other despots throughout history).
> 
> I still remember MyLai, for those too young to remember, herein is a link to this graphic example:
> 
> William Calley Lives
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The USG regularly kills innocents wherever they intervene.
> 
> The USG is Intervening in Syria as we speak.
> 
> The Syrian government, regardless what you think of it, is defending itself from the above-mentioned intervention.
> 
> These are the facts.
Click to expand...


Thanks so much for your opinions/beliefs.  I suggest you write to The President and tell him what you believe and what you want him to do.

As for me, I'll vote in November and work very hard to make sure the Democrats take over The Congress, and then to make as sure as possible Trump is denied a second term in office, if he is lucky to avoid being impeached and convicted of a high crimes or a series of misdemeanors.


----------



## Tehon

Wry Catcher said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is not delusion.
> The USG has openly acknowledge their efforts to support the Syrian opposition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The US Government has made no secret in supporting the victims of Assad and Putin's war crimes.  What evidence do you have that the USG decided to kill the victims?  That would be stupid, and even Trump (I hope) is not that  stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those victims specifically, the same as you have, none. We were talking only of motive.
> 
> Now do you want to pretend that the USG has qualms about killing innocents to achieve its objectives?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, there have been cases of unintended consequences in every use of military action; cover ups, denial rarely work (.  The difference is, very few are intended by our forces, the same cannot be said for Assad, Putin and other despots throughout history).
> 
> I still remember MyLai, for those too young to remember, herein is a link to this graphic example:
> 
> William Calley Lives
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The USG regularly kills innocents wherever they intervene.
> 
> The USG is Intervening in Syria as we speak.
> 
> The Syrian government, regardless what you think of it, is defending itself from the above-mentioned intervention.
> 
> These are the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks so much for your opinions/beliefs.  I suggest you write to The President and tell him what you believe and what you want him to do.
> 
> As for me, I'll vote in November and work very hard to make sure the Democrats take over The Congress, and then to make as sure as possible Trump is denied a second term in office, if he is lucky to avoid being impeached and convicted of a high crimes or a series of misdemeanors.
Click to expand...

I wish to deny Trump a second term as well. 

I don't have a false sense of the democrats however. 

Obama's geopolitical maneuvering did not slip by me unnoticed.


----------



## Stratford57

Tehon said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah Ha, you're a conspiracy guy.  The fringe people's grist, along with alternate realities using one or more lies, half-truth, rumors or innuendos to support your beliefs; in this case the innuendo.
> 
> What motive do you imagine the US and/or its allies choose to kill civilians in a tiny village in Syria?  I admit Trump might do something such as this, since he never seems to think of the consequences of his words, but the risk of so many members of our military to carry out a war crime and keep it secret is so absurd only real crazies believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not delusion.
> The USG has openly acknowledge their efforts to support the Syrian opposition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The US Government has made no secret in supporting the victims of Assad and Putin's war crimes.  What evidence do you have that the USG decided to kill the victims?  That would be stupid, and even Trump (I hope) is not that  stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those victims specifically, the same as you have, none. We were talking only of motive.
> 
> Now do you want to pretend that the USG has qualms about killing innocents to achieve its objectives?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, there have been cases of unintended consequences in every use of military action; cover ups, denial rarely work (.  The difference is, very few are intended by our forces, the same cannot be said for Assad, Putin and other despots throughout history).
> 
> I still remember MyLai, for those too young to remember, herein is a link to this graphic example:
> 
> William Calley Lives
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The USG regularly kills innocents wherever they intervene.
> 
> The USG is Intervening in Syria as we speak.
> 
> The Syrian government, regardless what you think of it, is defending itself from the above-mentioned intervention.
> 
> These are the facts.
Click to expand...

Dan Glazebrook, a freelance political writer who has written for  Counterpunch, Z magazine, the Morning Star, the Guardian, the New Statesman, the Independent and Middle East Eye, amongst others:

US and Britain are not interested in peace; *they want to keep this war ongoing. They want Syria to become the failed state that they’ve turned Iraq and Libya into*. They don’t want the restoration of government authority. Yet, it is *that restoration of government authority across Syria that is the best chance and the best hope for peace, and that is why they are scared that this peace is about to break out.* That is why we’re seeing the British Ambassador shedding crocodile tears at the UN, when the reality is – this is the same British government that killed from one to two million people in these invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan...destroyed Libya, created the migrant crisis…

They will dismiss, or worse – deliberately undermine, or try to scupper - any attempts to alleviate the suffering on the ground. This is in part because *they want to see as many civilians die as possible in Russian and Syrian airstrikes; this is a good propaganda for them,* because their line is – *it is only Russian bombs that kill civilians, only Syrian bombs that kill civilians, and never British bombs or American bombs*…

'US, UK sabotage any attempts at Syria settlement'


----------



## Wry Catcher

Stratford57 said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> The United States and its Western allies are in Syria supporting terrorists determined to overthrow the Syrian government. Equals motive, opportunity and means.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah Ha, you're a conspiracy guy.  The fringe people's grist, along with alternate realities using one or more lies, half-truth, rumors or innuendos to support your beliefs; in this case the innuendo.
> 
> What motive do you imagine the US and/or its allies choose to kill civilians in a tiny village in Syria?  I admit Trump might do something such as this, since he never seems to think of the consequences of his words, but the risk of so many members of our military to carry out a war crime and keep it secret is so absurd only real crazies believe it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is not delusion.
> The USG has openly acknowledge their efforts to support the Syrian opposition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The US Government has made no secret in supporting the victims of Assad and Putin's war crimes.  What evidence do you have that the USG decided to kill the victims?  That would be stupid, and even Trump (I hope) is not that  stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those victims specifically, the same as you have, none. We were talking only of motive.
> 
> Now do you want to pretend that the USG has qualms about killing innocents to achieve its objectives?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Some facts confirming your point:
> 1. Thanks to the irresponsible foreign policies of *both President Obama and Hillary Clinton, the terrorist group ISIS has been allowed to spread in more than 30 Nations*. This group has caused a lot of damage to United States soldiers and civilians.
> 
> Meanwhile President *Obama and Clinton have never come up with a plan to completely destroy ISIS. Despite the fact that they are the ones that helped create them in the first place, they don’t seem keen on making sure they don’t spread.* As a result, other nations have been forced to help clean up their mess.
> 
> Russian military leaders have said that President *Obama is allowing thousands of ISIS fighters to be given a safe passage out of Iraq!* They would then be let back into the country to fight against the Russian army, or go somewhere else to fight them!
> 
> The military source in Moscow said: “*In preparation for the operation in Mosul, US intelligence agencies and Saudi Arabia agreed that before the assault all militants will be offered a safe route to leave the city with their families.”*
> 
> President Obama is literally allowing people to leave the city!
> BREAKING: Obama Approved Operation To Release 9,000 ISIS Soldiers Inside Moscow - Conservative Daily Post
> --
> 
> 2.  The CIA has been coordinating weapon deliveries on the Turkey-Syria border, German journalist Jurgen Todenhofer, who recently spoke with a Jabhat al-Nusra commander, said. He added that the *US knows that the weapons it delivers to rebels end up with terrorists.*
> 
> *‘US knows weapons sent to Syrian rebels end up with terrorists’ – German journo to RT*
> *Watch the video ^, the jihadist is telling how Washington supports them.
> *
> In response to a recent State Department release which said the US had not been supporting terrorists, but some of its allies could have been, Todenhofer said, _“maybe there were allies in between. But everybody knows that they are using allies and they are allowing allies... It doesn’t matter if a TOW rocket or a TOW missile, which is an American missile, comes [to terrorists] from another group.”_
> 
> Todenhofer said that when a terrorist group wants the weapons which are supplied to rebels it changes its name and from that point it belongs to the so-called ’moderate opposition.’
> 
> _“In a certain way he [the Jabhat al-Nusra commander] is repeating what Pentagon said four years ago,”_ he stated. “*They are trying to get rid of Assad with the help of the rebels*,” the journalist concluded.
> 
> 
> In the interview the *Jabhat al-Nusra unit commander Abu Al Ezz said that US weapons are being delivered to the terrorist group by governments that Washington supports* and American instructors have been providing instruction on how to use them. “Yes, the US supports the opposition [in Syria], but not directly. They support the countries that support us. But we are not yet satisfied with this support,” he said.
> 
> He also echoed claims made by Moscow and the Syrian government that the *militants were using the Syrian ceasefire, agreed on by Russia and US on September 9, to prepare for a new offensive*. _“We do not recognize the ceasefire. We will regroup our groups. We will carry out the next overwhelming attack against the regime in a few days,”_ he said.
> ‘US knows weapons sent to Syrian rebels end up with terrorists’ – German journo to RT
> 
> Jurgen Todenhofer: In Iraq the Saddam's overthrowing cost 1 million lives;  in Libya Qaddafi's overthrowing cost 500 thousand lives; in Syria for the sake of Assad's overthrowing 400  thousand people have been already killed. I'd like to ask: how many innocent people have to be killed to overthrow "the dictator"? This is a moral question, which Washington has to answer.
> ---
> Churkin to UN Security Council: There are representatives of certain countries in this room, everybody knows their countries are financing and supplying terrorists with weapons: ISIS, Nusra and many others. *Stop supplying the terrorists with the weapons and you’ll see how quickly the humanitarian situation in Syria will get better.*
Click to expand...


A Paranoid Schizophrenic also has details to support their narrative.  Some are quite credible, but do not pass the test of reality and time.


----------



## Tehon

Stratford57 said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is not delusion.
> The USG has openly acknowledge their efforts to support the Syrian opposition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The US Government has made no secret in supporting the victims of Assad and Putin's war crimes.  What evidence do you have that the USG decided to kill the victims?  That would be stupid, and even Trump (I hope) is not that  stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those victims specifically, the same as you have, none. We were talking only of motive.
> 
> Now do you want to pretend that the USG has qualms about killing innocents to achieve its objectives?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, there have been cases of unintended consequences in every use of military action; cover ups, denial rarely work (.  The difference is, very few are intended by our forces, the same cannot be said for Assad, Putin and other despots throughout history).
> 
> I still remember MyLai, for those too young to remember, herein is a link to this graphic example:
> 
> William Calley Lives
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The USG regularly kills innocents wherever they intervene.
> 
> The USG is Intervening in Syria as we speak.
> 
> The Syrian government, regardless what you think of it, is defending itself from the above-mentioned intervention.
> 
> These are the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dan Glazebrook, a freelance political writer who has written for  Counterpunch, Z magazine, the Morning Star, the Guardian, the New Statesman, the Independent and Middle East Eye, amongst others:
> 
> US and Britain are not interested in peace; *they want to keep this war ongoing. They want Syria to become the failed state that they’ve turned Iraq and Libya into*. They don’t want the restoration of government authority. Yet, it is *that restoration of government authority across Syria that is the best chance and the best hope for peace, and that is why they are scared that this peace is about to break out.* That is why we’re seeing the British Ambassador shedding crocodile tears at the UN, when the reality is – this is the same British government that killed from one to two million people in these invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan...destroyed Libya, created the migrant crisis…
> 
> They will dismiss, or worse – deliberately undermine, or try to scupper - any attempts to alleviate the suffering on the ground. This is in part because *they want to see as many civilians die as possible in Russian and Syrian airstrikes; this is a good propaganda for them,* because their line is – *it is only Russian bombs that kill civilians, only Syrian bombs that kill civilians, and never British bombs or American bombs*…
> 
> 'US, UK sabotage any attempts at Syria settlement'
Click to expand...

A plan to balkanize parts of the ME is an old idea that has the potential to be realized if the Syrian State were to collapse.

And I don't believe the USG has made a good faith effort to bring stability to Syria.

I wouldn't arbitrarily discount the authors viewpoint.


----------



## Stratford57

Tehon said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US Government has made no secret in supporting the victims of Assad and Putin's war crimes.  What evidence do you have that the USG decided to kill the victims?  That would be stupid, and even Trump (I hope) is not that  stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> Those victims specifically, the same as you have, none. We were talking only of motive.
> 
> Now do you want to pretend that the USG has qualms about killing innocents to achieve its objectives?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, there have been cases of unintended consequences in every use of military action; cover ups, denial rarely work (.  The difference is, very few are intended by our forces, the same cannot be said for Assad, Putin and other despots throughout history).
> 
> I still remember MyLai, for those too young to remember, herein is a link to this graphic example:
> 
> William Calley Lives
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The USG regularly kills innocents wherever they intervene.
> 
> The USG is Intervening in Syria as we speak.
> 
> The Syrian government, regardless what you think of it, is defending itself from the above-mentioned intervention.
> 
> These are the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dan Glazebrook, a freelance political writer who has written for  Counterpunch, Z magazine, the Morning Star, the Guardian, the New Statesman, the Independent and Middle East Eye, amongst others:
> 
> US and Britain are not interested in peace; *they want to keep this war ongoing. They want Syria to become the failed state that they’ve turned Iraq and Libya into*. They don’t want the restoration of government authority. Yet, it is *that restoration of government authority across Syria that is the best chance and the best hope for peace, and that is why they are scared that this peace is about to break out.* That is why we’re seeing the British Ambassador shedding crocodile tears at the UN, when the reality is – this is the same British government that killed from one to two million people in these invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan...destroyed Libya, created the migrant crisis…
> 
> They will dismiss, or worse – deliberately undermine, or try to scupper - any attempts to alleviate the suffering on the ground. This is in part because *they want to see as many civilians die as possible in Russian and Syrian airstrikes; this is a good propaganda for them,* because their line is – *it is only Russian bombs that kill civilians, only Syrian bombs that kill civilians, and never British bombs or American bombs*…
> 
> 'US, UK sabotage any attempts at Syria settlement'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A plan to balkanize parts of the ME is an old idea that has the potential to be realized if the Syrian State were to collapse.
> 
> And I don't believe the USG has made a good faith effort to bring stability to Syria.
> 
> I wouldn't arbitrarily discount the authors viewpoint.
Click to expand...

Certainly, poring gasoline on fire is not gonna stop the fire. Obama and Clinton knew that supplying weapons to terrorists in ME will cause deaths of lots of civilians, but didn't seem to care.

Richard BLACK, Virginia Senator: *we've employed massive, unrelenting propaganda against President Assad and his government.* We call him a "regime," the "Assad regime."

STEINBERG: Right, as opposed to "an elected, sovereign government."

BLACK: Yes. Now, of course, *we always ignore the fact that he was popularly elected, in fair and open elections in 2014*. Now, on the other hand, we sit at Geneva III at the peace talks, and on one side we have Saudi Arabia, where if you were to suggest the election of the King or dictator of Saudi Arabia, your head would be a spike the next day; and then, on the other hand, you have President Erdogan, the man who would be Adolf Hitler! 

BLACK: Yes, and you know, that brings us to a good point: You then come to the point of the uprising itself, how was this carried out? Just prior to the uprisings, Ambassador Ford was sent to Damascus; we had not had an ambassador there for some time. *He was put in place by Hillary Clinton*. Around that time, of course, you have all of these covert agencies; Western agencies, plus the Saudis and the Turks. And their mechanism was the Muslim Brotherhood. 

BLACK: Well, you know, I'll tell you what is amazing is that when we started the war on terror, after 9/11, it was essentially a war against al-Qaeda and similar organizations. *We have gone full circle from opposing al-Qaeda, which sent 3,000 Americans to a flaming death on 9/11, complete circle to where we now supply them; we arm them; we finance them; and it's all coming with the approval of the highest authorities in the United States government.*

1)    President Assad must not leave office because if he does, Syria will fall into chaos, just as Libya has done. 

2)    President Assad has said from the beginning, they said, _there are no moderate rebels_. The notion is a fantasy, they do not exist! And yet, I think yesterday, Secretary Kerry was out there saying, we've got to help the moderate rebels. *The "moderate rebels" are al-Qaeda, who flew the jets into the Twin Towers and today these are the "moderates"!*
U.S. Policy in Syria: An Interview with VA Senator Richard Black

I'm very glad there are Senators like that. Because the recent actions of Congressmen have shown that majority of them are in Soros' pocket (probably, for quite a while).


----------



## Stratford57

Financial Times:

_Abu Ahmad: 'I used to think America was the ruler of the universe. “ _When he crossed into Syria, he brought bags filled with hundred-dollar bills to hand out to rebel fighters. His comrades received US-approved anti-tank missiles, discreetly delivered at the border.  For security reasons, he asked for his name and those of several others who discussed his story to be changed.

Some rebels called him the CIA’s man in Syria. “We used to joke, ‘If you want something from Barack Obama, call Abu Ahmad,’” another CIA-backed rebel commander recalls.

The story of his rise and fall offers a rare insight into how the CIA operated within the confines of President Obama’s halfhearted Syria policy. It reveals how the rivalries between US bureaucracies — and, even more importantly, the growing divergence between Washington and its Nato ally Turkey — exacerbated Syria’s mayhem.

A determination not to be dragged into Syria’s war, alongside a recognition of its regional significance, left Washington with one foot in and one foot out — a situation that may prove as problematic in the long run as full-fledged intervention.

 “*People have this perception the Americans weren’t very involved [in Syria]. But that’s not true — they were*, and to a minuscule level of detail for a while in places like Aleppo when [the CIA programme] started,” a regional diplomat says. “The problem with American policy in Syria was in some ways the same as it always was: all tactics, no strategy . . . It was a mess.”

 “If you had a question about a battle rebels wanted to do, Abu Ahmad would immediately say this is how many bullets you’d need, how many fighters are actually there, which way they should approach it,” the diplomat says. *“The Americans ate it up.” *

Rebels approved as ideological “moderates” *received a monthly salary *of about $150 for a fighter and $300 for a commander and soon the Americans asked Abu to be their consultant, handing him about $1,000 a month.  

He says commanders regularly inflated their forces’ numbers to pocket extra salaries, and some jacked up weapons requests to hoard or sell on the black market. Inevitably, much of that ended up in Isis hands. Other groups cut in Jabhat al-Nusra on deals to keep it from attacking them. “The CIA knew about this, of course, everyone in MOM did. It was the price of doing business.”

In the summer of 2015, the US launched the Pentagon’s “Train and Equip” programme for select rebel fighters. It cost $500m, and went horribly wrong.

Subscribe to read


----------



## Tehon

Stratford57 said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those victims specifically, the same as you have, none. We were talking only of motive.
> 
> Now do you want to pretend that the USG has qualms about killing innocents to achieve its objectives?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, there have been cases of unintended consequences in every use of military action; cover ups, denial rarely work (.  The difference is, very few are intended by our forces, the same cannot be said for Assad, Putin and other despots throughout history).
> 
> I still remember MyLai, for those too young to remember, herein is a link to this graphic example:
> 
> William Calley Lives
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The USG regularly kills innocents wherever they intervene.
> 
> The USG is Intervening in Syria as we speak.
> 
> The Syrian government, regardless what you think of it, is defending itself from the above-mentioned intervention.
> 
> These are the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dan Glazebrook, a freelance political writer who has written for  Counterpunch, Z magazine, the Morning Star, the Guardian, the New Statesman, the Independent and Middle East Eye, amongst others:
> 
> US and Britain are not interested in peace; *they want to keep this war ongoing. They want Syria to become the failed state that they’ve turned Iraq and Libya into*. They don’t want the restoration of government authority. Yet, it is *that restoration of government authority across Syria that is the best chance and the best hope for peace, and that is why they are scared that this peace is about to break out.* That is why we’re seeing the British Ambassador shedding crocodile tears at the UN, when the reality is – this is the same British government that killed from one to two million people in these invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan...destroyed Libya, created the migrant crisis…
> 
> They will dismiss, or worse – deliberately undermine, or try to scupper - any attempts to alleviate the suffering on the ground. This is in part because *they want to see as many civilians die as possible in Russian and Syrian airstrikes; this is a good propaganda for them,* because their line is – *it is only Russian bombs that kill civilians, only Syrian bombs that kill civilians, and never British bombs or American bombs*…
> 
> 'US, UK sabotage any attempts at Syria settlement'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A plan to balkanize parts of the ME is an old idea that has the potential to be realized if the Syrian State were to collapse.
> 
> And I don't believe the USG has made a good faith effort to bring stability to Syria.
> 
> I wouldn't arbitrarily discount the authors viewpoint.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Certainly, poring gasoline on fire is not gonna stop the fire. Obama and Clinton knew that supplying weapons to terrorists in ME will cause deaths of lots of civilians, but didn't seem to care.
> 
> Richard BLACK, Virginia Senator: *we've employed massive, unrelenting propaganda against President Assad and his government.* We call him a "regime," the "Assad regime."
> 
> STEINBERG: Right, as opposed to "an elected, sovereign government."
> 
> BLACK: Yes. Now, of course, *we always ignore the fact that he was popularly elected, in fair and open elections in 2014*. Now, on the other hand, we sit at Geneva III at the peace talks, and on one side we have Saudi Arabia, where if you were to suggest the election of the King or dictator of Saudi Arabia, your head would be a spike the next day; and then, on the other hand, you have President Erdogan, the man who would be Adolf Hitler!
> 
> BLACK: Yes, and you know, that brings us to a good point: You then come to the point of the uprising itself, how was this carried out? Just prior to the uprisings, Ambassador Ford was sent to Damascus; we had not had an ambassador there for some time. *He was put in place by Hillary Clinton*. Around that time, of course, you have all of these covert agencies; Western agencies, plus the Saudis and the Turks. And their mechanism was the Muslim Brotherhood.
> 
> BLACK: Well, you know, I'll tell you what is amazing is that when we started the war on terror, after 9/11, it was essentially a war against al-Qaeda and similar organizations. *We have gone full circle from opposing al-Qaeda, which sent 3,000 Americans to a flaming death on 9/11, complete circle to where we now supply them; we arm them; we finance them; and it's all coming with the approval of the highest authorities in the United States government.*
> 
> 1)    President Assad must not leave office because if he does, Syria will fall into chaos, just as Libya has done.
> 
> 2)    President Assad has said from the beginning, they said, _there are no moderate rebels_. The notion is a fantasy, they do not exist! And yet, I think yesterday, Secretary Kerry was out there saying, we've got to help the moderate rebels. *The "moderate rebels" are al-Qaeda, who flew the jets into the Twin Towers and today these are the "moderates"!*
> U.S. Policy in Syria: An Interview with VA Senator Richard Black
> 
> I'm very glad there are Senators like that. Because the recent actions of Congressmen have shown that majority of them are in Soros' pocket (probably, for quite a while).
Click to expand...

It is unfortunate that Richard Black's influence does not extend beyond the Virginia State Senate.


----------



## Balancer

rightwinger said:


> Why would you support Putin?



I am categorically against the concentration of power in one person. Because the country in this case is waiting for chaos after his departure. And I will gladly vote for any worthy alternative to Putin. The problem is that now in Russia, apart from Putin, there is not a single sane politician who would have presidency ambitions.

Do you know among candidates for the presidency of Russia at least one candidate that would be better than Putin? Me not. The rest are clowns or losers.

And you are wrong. I do not support Putin. I refute false accusations against whom they would not be nominated. In Russian forums, I also repeatedly supported, for example, American presidents, when the accusations against them were quite stupid


----------



## Balancer

rightwinger said:


> Lets look at it through the eyes of national GDP



One can argue a lot about why Russia is poor. But the fact is that throughout the history of Russia, the Russians have never lived as richly as now 

In addition, GDP is very poorly reflecting reality. Even the infamous Big Mac index, to which I referred above, reflects the reality better. Although he does not take into account any social benefits left over from the USSR, as free medicine, free education, etc. My wife has a third year of maternity leave and receives a salary. And how much time in the US can a woman be on maternity leave by birth? 

Your problem is that you are trying to judge life in Russia do not know anything about Russia. While in Russia people know very well about life in the US from American sources - news from Western media, the Internet, American cinema, literature ... And if the residents of Russia largely agree that they live poorer than in the US, but not enough to change something radically, it already speaks for itself.


----------



## Balancer

rightwinger said:


> Once oil collapsed and Obama led sanctions took hold, Putin struggled



Believe the view from Russia, your sanctions or fluctuations of oil inside the country are not noticeable  Prices in stores are now almost the same as three years ago. A small inflation, of course, is, probably, about 5% per year. But this is not even close to inflation of 200% per year in the first half of the 1990s.

The majority of Russians admit the announcement of the next sanctions with laughter, as a sign that the US government is losing its connection with reality even more. In fact, the more sanctions, the more actively develops the domestic market. Our farmers simply pray for the extension of sanctions


----------



## Balancer

Wry Catcher said:


> Everything anyone needs  to know about Putin was on display last night on 60-Minutes.  Watch it and be horrified of the results of the nerve gas attack on civilians, and the bodies of men, women and dozens of children.



Here, by the way, is a vivid example of how lies in the Western media act on the brains of people in spite of all logic. People are not able to think logically (to answer the question - why Assad needs to use chemical weapons) and are ready to take on faith any nonsense, if it is said in the media.


----------



## Balancer

Lewdog said:


> That great Putin guy that is now one of the richest men in the world



Can you prove it?


----------



## Balancer

Wry Catcher said:


> Who else has chemical weapons?  Who else has means, opportunity and motives?



Chemical weapons in the form of chlorine are generally an industrial reagent, available everywhere. Most likely, liquid chlorine is even a few miles from your home at some water treatment station.

Chlorine gas leak in W Virginia prompts mass evacuation

Chlorine leak reported from Dow Chemical Plant in Louisiana

USA – Chlorine Gas Leak Occurs At Olin Chemical Plant – Fire Direct

I conducted experiments with chlorine, which I myself synthesized, already in the 7th grade of the school, at the age of 13 

Even much more complex organophosphorus poisoning agents can be prepared at home. Have you already forgotten the attack of religious sectarians in the Tokyo subway?

Tokyo subway sarin attack - Wikipedia

The presence of chemical weapons from IGIL and Syrian terrorists has long been a proven and well-known fact.

Terrorists are interested in the use of chemical weapons, since they have few conventional weapons, they do not care about public opinion and it is important for them to terrorize the civilian population.

Assad - NOT interested in the use of chemical weapons. Its use causes a great blow to the image of both Assad and Russia. And the use of chemical weapons by Asad has no tactical or strategic meaning, since Russia's military support gives him much more. So why should he use senseless chemical weapons, at the risk of losing support for Russia?

I have so far seen only one argument, why Assad needs this. Because Assad is a sick bloody maniac. Why a bloody maniac? Because it uses chemical weapons. Everything, the circle is closed. Did you see at least one proof? I believe that no


----------



## Balancer

Wry Catcher said:


> A Paranoid Schizophrenic also has details to support their narrative.  Some are quite credible, but do not pass the test of reality and time.



Are you now talking about the charges against Assad? Yes, I agree. These paranoid accusations do not pass the test of reality


----------



## Wry Catcher

Balancer said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything anyone needs  to know about Putin was on display last night on 60-Minutes.  Watch it and be horrified of the results of the nerve gas attack on civilians, and the bodies of men, women and dozens of children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here, by the way, is a vivid example of how lies in the Western media act on the brains of people in spite of all logic. People are not able to think logically (to answer the question - why Assad needs to use chemical weapons) and are ready to take on faith any nonsense, if it is said in the media.
Click to expand...


And yet the bodies were not staged by Hollywood.  So, if  not Assad?, please explain who, why and how these people were slaughtered?

Until there exists exculpatory evidence which is credible, I assume the news is not fake, and that people like you are plants working against the Western Nations and in particular the US.

How is the weather in Moscow today?


----------



## Stratford57

Balancer said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lets look at it through the eyes of national GDP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One can argue a lot about why Russia is poor. But the fact is that throughout the history of Russia, the Russians have never lived as richly as now
> 
> In addition, GDP is very poorly reflecting reality. Even the infamous Big Mac index, to which I referred above, reflects the reality better. Although he does not take into account any social benefits left over from the USSR, as free medicine, free education, etc. My wife has a third year of maternity leave and receives a salary. And how much time in the US can a woman be on maternity leave by birth?
> 
> Your problem is that you are trying to judge life in Russia do not know anything about Russia. While in Russia people know very well about life in the US from American sources - news from Western media, the Internet, American cinema, literature ... And if the residents of Russia largely agree that they live poorer than in the US, but not enough to change something radically, it already speaks for itself.
Click to expand...

Last year:

Megyn Kelly:  You mentioned that Russia is entering a new phase of growth right now. And walking around talking to some of the Russian people, they say they are spending too much money on food, they are spending much money out of their budget on shoes. What’s being done to address that?

Putin: We have many such tools, such as support for low-income families to pay their utility bills. This may not seem very special at first glance, but it is important for the people. They also include the maternity capital that we pay to families with two or more children. I know you have three children.* If you were a Russian citizen, you would receive it as well*. 

St Petersburg International Economic Forum plenary meeting


----------



## Balancer

Stratford57 said:


> They also include the maternity capital



By the way, I paid 1 / 6th of the cost of my new apartment to my wife's maternity capital. This is a nice and appreciable contribution. And somewhere in a small city of the maternity capital will suffice and completely on purchase of an inexpensive apartment.


----------



## Igrok_

rightwinger said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is still crawling around on his knees.
> 
> Russia is no economic powerhouse: it rates behind India and Italy and GDP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin had them convinced that Russia was thriving under his leadership. But it was all built on hyper inflated oil revenues
> 
> Once oil collapsed and Obama led sanctions took hold, Putin struggled
> 
> The Russian people are too dumb to realize Putin is leading them to rampant stagnation
Click to expand...

You are missing one thing. Russians don't asses politicians by their economic success only. There are thing that matter: religion and culture. Under Putin Russia returns to its original values, which consist of traditional orthodox Church instead of communism, traditional family, respect to the Motherland and more or less social equality (in comparison with 1990s). Count this, and maybe will not consider Russians so dumb.


----------



## Igrok_

Litwin said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is still crawling around on his knees.
> 
> Russia is no economic powerhouse: it rates behind India and Italy and GDP.
> 
> 
> 
> *TIL Russia has a smaller GDP than California, Texas or New York ...*
> 
> ... Spain and _Russia_ had roughly equal ...
Click to expand...

Still enough to crush the Ukraine, which overall GDP is more than twice smaller than GRP of Moscow...


----------



## JakeStarkey

Other than the Ukies, who cares?


----------



## Stratford57

rightwinger said:


> It is sad that Russia was given such an opportunity to abandon years of oppression and embrace Western Democracy
> 
> The west opened their arms and offered free trade opportunities.
> 
> But Russia could not help but revert to their old ways personified by Putin


CNBC yesterday:

There's no doubt that *Putin has restored Russia to the status of global superpower* during his time in power although it has both lost and gained friends in the process.

Putin pledges fight against poverty and more help for families in pre-election speech


----------



## Igrok_

What it is to Russians if someone calls their country "superpower"? Can't realize that. I don't like his war rhetoric: this may end up killing millions or dozens of millions of russians... What would be the gain after all?


----------



## JakeStarkey

Stratford57 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that Russia was given such an opportunity to abandon years of oppression and embrace Western Democracy
> 
> The west opened their arms and offered free trade opportunities.
> 
> But Russia could not help but revert to their old ways personified by Putin
> 
> 
> 
> CNBC yesterday:
> 
> There's no doubt that *Putin has restored Russia to the status of global superpower* during his time in power although it has both lost and gained friends in the process.
> 
> Putin pledges fight against poverty and more help for families in pre-election speech
Click to expand...

Russia is a regional power, yes, but it is no super power, not in the slightest.


----------



## Balancer

Igrok_ said:


> I don't like his war rhetoric



We also do not like military rhetoric. But, as the history of the last 25 years has shown, it is not possible to talk with the West in a different way. We took many steps towards peaceful relations, but every step the West used to strengthen its positions and weaken Russia.


----------



## Stratford57

JakeStarkey said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that Russia was given such an opportunity to abandon years of oppression and embrace Western Democracy
> 
> The west opened their arms and offered free trade opportunities.
> 
> But Russia could not help but revert to their old ways personified by Putin
> 
> 
> 
> CNBC yesterday:
> 
> There's no doubt that *Putin has restored Russia to the status of global superpower* during his time in power although it has both lost and gained friends in the process.
> 
> Putin pledges fight against poverty and more help for families in pre-election speech
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia is a regional power, yes, but it is no super power, not in the slightest.
Click to expand...

Try to tell that to CNBC, it's your American source, not Russian.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Stratford57 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that Russia was given such an opportunity to abandon years of oppression and embrace Western Democracy
> 
> The west opened their arms and offered free trade opportunities.
> 
> But Russia could not help but revert to their old ways personified by Putin
> 
> 
> 
> CNBC yesterday:
> 
> There's no doubt that *Putin has restored Russia to the status of global superpower* during his time in power although it has both lost and gained friends in the process.
> 
> Putin pledges fight against poverty and more help for families in pre-election speech
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia is a regional power, yes, but it is no super power, not in the slightest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try to tell that to CNBC, it's your American source, not Russian.
Click to expand...

It is your source.  Russia is, remember, the weak man of Europe.


----------



## Stratford57

JakeStarkey said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that Russia was given such an opportunity to abandon years of oppression and embrace Western Democracy
> 
> The west opened their arms and offered free trade opportunities.
> 
> But Russia could not help but revert to their old ways personified by Putin
> 
> 
> 
> CNBC yesterday:
> 
> There's no doubt that *Putin has restored Russia to the status of global superpower* during his time in power although it has both lost and gained friends in the process.
> 
> Putin pledges fight against poverty and more help for families in pre-election speech
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia is a regional power, yes, but it is no super power, not in the slightest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try to tell that to CNBC, it's your American source, not Russian.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is your source.  Russia is, remember, the weak man of Europe.
Click to expand...

There is a good saying: "A dog is barking but caravan keeps moving ahead."

Keep barking, Jake.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Your caravan, like the Romani, is in reverse, Stratford.


----------



## Stratford57

JakeStarkey said:


> Your caravan, like the Romani, is in reverse, Stratford.


You are right this time, mine is. But my caravan unfortunately is Ukrainian and it's headed to nowhere under Washington Deep State control.

In fact, my friend asked to tell Americans her big “thank you” for bringing their “democracy” to our country. She says now we all have a democratic choice: to die from hunger or to die from freezing.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Ask the Romani for help, Stratford.  They know the Russians are the devil's help.


----------



## Baron

Stratford57 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> to die from hunger or to die from freezing.
> 
> 
> 
> ones.
Click to expand...



Or to became a True Democracy in action like in Iraq, Afghanistan and other 'democratized' countries


----------



## JakeStarkey

Baron is a weirdo.  He thinks Syria is heaven.


----------



## Stratford57

Baron said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> to die from hunger or to die from freezing.
> 
> 
> 
> ones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Or to became a True Democracy in action like in Iraq, Afghanistan and other 'democratized' countries
Click to expand...

Every country USA decided to bring its "democracy" has been successfully destroyed.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Germany?  Japan?   Italy?

Be quiet and learn, Stratford57, you embarrass yourself and your komaraden.


----------



## Balancer

JakeStarkey said:


> Baron is a weirdo.  He thinks Syria is heaven.



The concept of paradise is relatively. And in Asadov Syria for many, indeed, paradise in comparison with the parts in which "democratic forces" rule.



> Aleppo’s Main Public Garden that is adjacent to Saad-al-Jabri city square that Sheikh Muhaysni had promised to reach during the war. For humanity’s sake, he thankfully failed at doing so. Friday was the Garden’s busiest day with residents and children enjoying the outdoors


----------



## sharik

Igrok_ said:


> Russian government media invite only persons they assured in.



well, they aren't different from the Western media, is that what riles the West?


----------



## Stratford57

JakeStarkey said:


> Germany?  Japan?   Italy?
> 
> Be quiet and learn, Stratford57, you embarrass yourself and your komaraden.


,,,,,,,,,, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Ukraine.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Did well in those countries to overthrow the tyrants (Assad will be next) and let the people determine, as they are doing in Ukraine.


----------



## Stratford57

Balancer said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Baron is a weirdo.  He thinks Syria is heaven.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The concept of paradise is relatively. And in Asadov Syria for many, indeed, paradise in comparison with the parts in which "democratic forces" rule.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aleppo’s Main Public Garden that is adjacent to Saad-al-Jabri city square that Sheikh Muhaysni had promised to reach during the war. For humanity’s sake, he thankfully failed at doing so. Friday was the Garden’s busiest day with residents and children enjoying the outdoors
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> View attachment 180384
> 
> View attachment 180385
> 
> View attachment 180386
Click to expand...

Yeah, Syria was a very comfortable country to live in before Obama came and brought his "democracy", As well as Libya.


----------



## Stratford57

JakeStarkey said:


> Did well in those countries to overthrow the tyrants (Assad will be next) and let the people determine, as they are doing in Ukraine.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Russia stays in Russia.

America has the rest of the world.

More than fair, da?


----------



## Balancer

JakeStarkey said:


> Did well in those countries to overthrow the tyrants (Assad will be next) and let the people determine, as they are doing in Ukraine.



Yes, democracy is much more bloody than tyrants. And Ukraine has already confirmed this rule.


----------



## Balancer

JakeStarkey said:


> Russia stays in Russia.
> 
> America has the rest of the world.



Why do you know geography so badly?


----------



## JakeStarkey

Balancer said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did well in those countries to overthrow the tyrants (Assad will be next) and let the people determine, as they are doing in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, democracy is much more bloody than tyrants. And Ukraine has already confirmed this rule.
Click to expand...

Stalin and Hitler and Mao are responsible for maybe 125 million deaths.  Yes, tyrants are humane!


----------



## Balancer

JakeStarkey said:


> Stalin and Hitler and Mao are responsible for maybe 125 million deaths.  Yes, tyrants are humane!



You have not only with knowledge of geography everything is bad, but also with an understanding of what is now the year in the yard.


----------



## Syriusly

Stratford57 said:


> Stephen Cohen, Interview to Russian Channel One, Jan. 2018:
> 
> Demonization of Putin is one of the biggest threats to our [American] national security. For the next 1 or 2 years after Putin first came to power (as a Prime Minister in December 1999) American press was treating him very positively. _NYT even wrote he was a Democrat, who wants reforms and would be better than Yeltsin because he was younger and healthier._ When I [S.C.] asked them: “Why are you sure he’s a Democrat?” do you know what they said? They said: ”Because he’s from Yeltsin. Everything’s gonna be ok.”
> 
> They were just shocked when Putin started saying: “Russia is a sovereign country”, ”Russia has her own policy”, “We want to be partners with US but it’s a two-way street”. _A well known NYT journalist literally wrote: “I’m disappointed and shocked that Putin has not become a sober Yeltsin.”_
> 
> Now all the masks have been taken off.
> 
> Unfortunately, we have a short memory and have already forgotten that *after 9/11 Putin was the first who called Bush* and said: “That was terrible. How can we help you guys?”
> 
> Then US went to war in Afghanistan to destroy Taliban and *Putin helped US to get the victory in this war with minimum losses more than anybody else, even more than any NATO country.*
> 
> *Putin also shared his intelligence data with USA* and so on and on. He was even criticized in Russia, so for a while he looked more like  being pro-American leader, not even a bit anti-American.
> 
> During Gorbachev’s times American political class started treating Russia as a satellite country who was supposed to follow the orders from USA not only in foreign policy but in internal affairs as well. _After Yeltsin left and Putin came the people who dealt with foreign affairs in USA were absolutely sure they would continue to do whatever they were doing with Russia for the next 10 years at least._ And suddenly they figured out they were wrong and that’s why all those controversies started: with Georgia, Ukraine, etc.
> 
> For those who know Russian:
> Выпуск программы "Воскресное время" в 21:00  11 февраля 2018 года. Новости. Первый канал
> starts at 1 hour 8 minutes and ends at 1 hour 14 minutes of the program ^.
> 
> Stephen F. Cohen - Wikipedia



Always fascinating to hear from the Putin propaganda arm.


----------



## Stratford57

Syriusly said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stephen Cohen, Interview to Russian Channel One, Jan. 2018:
> 
> Demonization of Putin is one of the biggest threats to our [American] national security. For the next 1 or 2 years after Putin first came to power (as a Prime Minister in December 1999) American press was treating him very positively. _NYT even wrote he was a Democrat, who wants reforms and would be better than Yeltsin because he was younger and healthier._ When I [S.C.] asked them: “Why are you sure he’s a Democrat?” do you know what they said? They said: ”Because he’s from Yeltsin. Everything’s gonna be ok.”
> 
> They were just shocked when Putin started saying: “Russia is a sovereign country”, ”Russia has her own policy”, “We want to be partners with US but it’s a two-way street”. _A well known NYT journalist literally wrote: “I’m disappointed and shocked that Putin has not become a sober Yeltsin.”_
> 
> Now all the masks have been taken off.
> 
> Unfortunately, we have a short memory and have already forgotten that *after 9/11 Putin was the first who called Bush* and said: “That was terrible. How can we help you guys?”
> 
> Then US went to war in Afghanistan to destroy Taliban and *Putin helped US to get the victory in this war with minimum losses more than anybody else, even more than any NATO country.*
> 
> *Putin also shared his intelligence data with USA* and so on and on. He was even criticized in Russia, so for a while he looked more like  being pro-American leader, not even a bit anti-American.
> 
> During Gorbachev’s times American political class started treating Russia as a satellite country who was supposed to follow the orders from USA not only in foreign policy but in internal affairs as well. _After Yeltsin left and Putin came the people who dealt with foreign affairs in USA were absolutely sure they would continue to do whatever they were doing with Russia for the next 10 years at least._ And suddenly they figured out they were wrong and that’s why all those controversies started: with Georgia, Ukraine, etc.
> 
> For those who know Russian:
> Выпуск программы "Воскресное время" в 21:00  11 февраля 2018 года. Новости. Первый канал
> starts at 1 hour 8 minutes and ends at 1 hour 14 minutes of the program ^.
> 
> Stephen F. Cohen - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Always fascinating to hear from the Putin propaganda arm.
Click to expand...

Being on this forum for more than 3 years I noticed: almost half a country (obviously, you aren't among them) is tired of Soros anti-Russian propaganda and want to hear some truth for change.

The rest of the country is so deeply brainwashed that they can't differ sh*t from Shinola and think that the truth is "propaganda" and visa versa. Those nut cases (whom you seem to belong to) seem to be just hopeless.


----------



## evenflow1969

Stratford57 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford luvs sum Putin and Trump.
> 
> You all are losing traction, while your righteous foes are picking up steam.
> 
> 
> 
> Putin and Trump may be the only two people in the world who together are able to free your country and the whole world from Deep State's. That's why both have been so wildly demonized in Deep State's loyal Media. And you are buying all that sh*t.
> 
> The worst enemy of your country is not Russia, it's Deep State and you liberals under Deep State control who keep destroying your own country and the rest of the world. The sooner you realize it, the better it will be for your country and all the people.
Click to expand...

Yep, Putin is a good guy, he knows what is best for us! Are you fucking kidding me! Now I am supposed to trust Russias propoganda over ours! LOL But Cohen sais I should right?


----------



## Stratford57

evenflow1969 said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford luvs sum Putin and Trump.
> 
> You all are losing traction, while your righteous foes are picking up steam.
> 
> 
> 
> Putin and Trump may be the only two people in the world who together are able to free your country and the whole world from Deep State's. That's why both have been so wildly demonized in Deep State's loyal Media. And you are buying all that sh*t.
> 
> The worst enemy of your country is not Russia, it's Deep State and you liberals under Deep State control who keep destroying your own country and the rest of the world. The sooner you realize it, the better it will be for your country and all the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep, Putin is a good guy, he knows what is best for us! Are you fucking kidding me! Now I am supposed to trust Russias propoganda over ours! LOL But Cohen sais I should right?
Click to expand...

No, my dear, Putin knows what's best for his country. _For you_ guys he has been suggesting a fair partnership. Is anything wrong with that?

Putin:  Russophobic tools are being used for domestic political purposes [in USA], in this case the fight between President Trump and his political opponents in the United States.

*It is a great pity that Russian-US relations are sacrificed in the course of resolving internal US political issues.*

It is a shame, because if we worked together, we could resolve the pressing issues that concern both Russia and the United States much more efficiently. *I am speaking of solving acute international crises, tackling terrorism, nature conservation, resolving environmental problems, handling illegal migration, fighting organised crime and so on, and contributing to economic development ultimately*. But we know we have many friends in the United States, and there are many sober-minded people. I hope that someday the current state of affairs will come to an end and *we will move on to a qualitatively different kind of relationship, which we will strengthen and boost in the interests of the people of the United States and the Russian Federation.*

Joint news conference with President of Finland Sauli Niinisto


----------

