# Another school shooting....time to arm the teachers?



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.


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## Nova78 (Dec 14, 2012)

Time to arm the teachers ? 

 Boy, what a well thought out statement....


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## Synthaholic (Dec 14, 2012)

Another wingnut jumping at the chance to politicize a tragedy.

Well done, Grampa Douchebag.


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## Truthmatters (Dec 14, 2012)

when will you people stop worshipping guns?


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Dec 14, 2012)

> Another school shooting. Time to arm the teachers?



No, its time not to grasp for idiotic solutions.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> Another wingnut jumping at the chance to politicize a tragedy.
> 
> Well done, Grampa Douchebag.



Wanting to protect the kids is so douche baggish of me......

Fuck off troll


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## KissMy (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Another school shooting. Time to arm the teachers?
> 
> I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.



Yes! - They can have a safe inside their desk to prevent any students from gaining access to the gun. Teachers should be armed to protect the students & themselves.


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## Glensather (Dec 14, 2012)

I think that all persons over the age of 18 should be required to own a gun, and that starting at an early age, children should be educated on how to properly wield a weapon, about gun safety, and about how to take care of your weapon. Shit like this wouldn't happen if your entire workforce is armed with even a simple 9 millimeter.


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## MarcATL (Dec 14, 2012)

The much needed discussion on gun-control.

Yes?

They aren't decreasing, they're increasing. In both frequency and verocity.

An elementary school...that's a new low.

And BTW, the answer ain't to arm everyone...we're not going back to the cowboy days of the wild, wild West.


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## Synthaholic (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Another wingnut jumping at the chance to politicize a tragedy.
> ...


Every time there is another mass shooting - and I think this is the 14th this year - there are calls for gun control.

And every time that happens, wingnuts accuse them of politicizing a tragedy.

Why isn't what you are doing "politicizing a tragedy", Grampa Douchebag?


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

So far one SMALL CHILD is deceased.  

It is past the time to give our educators the ability to defend our children!


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



I have never accused anyone of any such thing. I'm not bringing politics into this you are.


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## Sallow (Dec 14, 2012)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> > Another school shooting. Time to arm the teachers?
> 
> 
> 
> No, its time not to grasp for idiotic solutions.



Seriously.

We have another tragedy due to guns.

Right wing solution? We need more guns.

Astounding.


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## The Infidel (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> So far one SMALL CHILD is deceased.
> 
> It is past the time to give our educators the ability to defend our children!



Arming teachers is not the answer.

Not just no, but HELL NO!


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## Ravi (Dec 14, 2012)

I'm surprised cons would trust teachers with guns since they believe all teacher are liberals.

And no, given the fact that sometimes teachers abuse children, teachers should not be armed.


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## The Infidel (Dec 14, 2012)

Sallow said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> > > Another school shooting. Time to arm the teachers?
> ...



Certain situations...yes, but not this one.


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## Synthaholic (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...


Wingnuts accuse gun control advocates of politicizing these tragedies every time.  You're a wingnut.  Don't want to be associated with wingnuts?  Stop being a wingnut.  And a douchebag.  Simple.


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## Sallow (Dec 14, 2012)

Ravi said:


> I'm surprised cons would trust teachers with guns since they believe all teacher are liberals.
> 
> And no, given the fact that sometimes teachers abuse children, teachers should not be armed.



Guns should be kept in the home and at businesses.

THAT'S IT.

No one should be walking the streets with them, except LEOs.


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## The Infidel (Dec 14, 2012)

Ravi said:


> I'm surprised cons would trust teachers with guns since they believe all teacher are liberals.
> 
> And no, given the fact that sometimes teachers abuse children, teachers should not be armed.



Damn it... Have I fell thru a wormhole?
I agree again (with parts of it anyway)


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## regent (Dec 14, 2012)

Is America willing to turn the safety of its children over to common union thugs? What some are suggesting is arming union thugs. As I remember my fifth grade teacher, Mrs. Wagner, and her rules, I don't want to arm teachers. Mrs. Wagner didn't tolerate nonsense and now to give teachers like her, a common union thug, a gun, is creating worse conditions. I'd take my chances with the campus intruder. Union thugs should not have guns.


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## Glensather (Dec 14, 2012)

Personally I don't believe in gun control.
The way I see it, if someone is crazy enough to walk into a school/mall/post office/what have you and start shooting, they WILL be armed, regardless of whether or not gun control is established.

For example, every single one of us could just fly to South America, buy an AK-47 for about 500USD, and they'll dead drop it for you at a location of your choosing.

Even easier, I can just access Tor and do that RIGHT NOW if I wanted to.


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## Mad Scientist (Dec 14, 2012)

Gun sales booming. Crime rates falling.

That *couldn't* be connected could it?

FBI says *it is*:
MILLER: Gun ownership up, crime down - Washington Times


> Last week, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)  announced that violent crime decreased 4 percent in 2011. The number of  murders, rapes, robberies and aggravated assaults all went down,  continuing a pattern.



Wanna' do yer part to reduce crime? Buy a Gun!


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## The Infidel (Dec 14, 2012)

Sallow said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > I'm surprised cons would trust teachers with guns since they believe all teacher are liberals.
> ...



Logic and history says that only LEO and criminals will be armed on the streets.
I agree with being able to have a CHL. Those folks are usually law abiding citizens.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
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> 
> > Synthaholic said:
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You're an idiot. 

Merry Christmas, enjoy the neg.


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## Glensather (Dec 14, 2012)

Because fucking no one in this country knows how to properly use guns anymore. Any yahoo off the street can watch Zero Dark Thirty and suddenly they're a master of the gun.

PROPER gun education should have been put into this country YEARS ago.


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## KissMy (Dec 14, 2012)

Sallow said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> > > Another school shooting. Time to arm the teachers?
> ...



We don't need more guns. We just need guns in the right hands. That would be teachers & not hormone raging teens. We also have tazers & other less than lethal devices we could issue teachers.


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## OKTexas (Dec 14, 2012)

A person who is willing to give up liberty for security, deserves neither liberty or security. End discussion.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

I don't consider teachers thugs. Just because someone belongs to the union does not make them a bad person. 
Also appropriate training and precautions could be taken to ensure the safe keeping of and weapons. 
Banning weapons only insures that they are solely in the hands of criminals thus ensuring that the public has no chance of defending itself.


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## LordBrownTrout (Dec 14, 2012)

We need to delve into the cause of the violence and its not gun control.


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## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

Kind of soon to find some political thing to gripe about on this latest shooting. Details are hardly known.

Multiple people killed including children. Heartbreaking.

Children among several dead in Conn. elementary school shooting | Local News - WCVB Home


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## Toronado3800 (Dec 14, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> 
> Yes?
> 
> ...



Mostly I am for gun rights.  You could talk me into triple penalties for crimes committed with guns and the like though.  I just think folks with guns are necessary in a free country.

Anyways, these nuts.woukd just turn around and blow something up if they couldn't get a gun.  Darn humans sucks sometime.

I understand your outrage and feelings though.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> Kind of soon to find some political thing to gripe about on this latest shooting. Details are hardly known.
> 
> Multiple people killed including children. Heartbreaking.
> 
> Children among several dead in Conn. elementary school shooting | Local News - WCVB Home



The only ones talking about politics are the idiots. I'm talking about the ability to defend our children.


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## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> 
> Yes?
> 
> ...



Nor is it to disarm law abiding citizens either.


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## DiamondDave (Dec 14, 2012)

If it is the guns that kill people.. I better not hear anymore how Obama took down Bin Laden.. it was the guns that did it


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 14, 2012)

Gramps' question is not untimely or unseemly.

I have a cousin who is a professor.  She is a always armed with a small pistol in a large sweater pocket.  Has been for more than a decade.

I approve.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 14, 2012)

Only to the insignificant few.


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## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > Kind of soon to find some political thing to gripe about on this latest shooting. Details are hardly known.
> ...



I think most of us want our children to be safe, left and right. Grampa we are not even certain who the shooter was yet. As details are revealed we can discuss actions that might prevent tragedies but kind of early imo.


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## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

DiamondDave said:


> If it is the guns that kill people.. I better not hear anymore how Obama took down Bin Laden.. it was the guns that did it



Don't you just hate when guns act on their own. Renegades..the lot of them.


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## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Gramps' question is not untimely or unseemly.
> 
> I have a cousin who is a professor.  She is a always armed with a small pistol in a large sweater pocket.  Has been for more than a decade.
> 
> I approve.



I support our right to carry. One of our most precious rights imo. I just choose to wait and see more details on this.


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## SniperFire (Dec 14, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> 
> Yes?
> 
> ...




Why?

The several gangbangers who shot each other in Chicago this week didn't.


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## PredFan (Dec 14, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> 
> Yes?
> 
> ...



The Wild West was a much safer place.


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## Duped (Dec 14, 2012)

Metal detectors, and armed guards. The problem is we don't punish predators enough! When someone commits a brutal crime - the punishment has to be brutal. There are too many people in jail who shouldn't be, and the ones that should, have it too easy. The gun needs a trigger finger- so it is not a gun problem ( guns are here to stay ) it is a societal problem!
My heart goes out to the victims, and their families !


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## mjollnir (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> 
> I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.




I see.  So arm exactly those same people who are so often derided by RWer's as socialists, fascists, lazy gov't employees looking for easy handouts, unionists, etc....

Yeah.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Dreamy said:
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I would agree if we had posters involved. But we don't. We are detached outsiders and this is a message board. If you feel its too early fine, simply don't click on the thread. Problem solved.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> 
> I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.



Its funny how you morons don't trust teachers to teach but you'd trust them with discharging a deadly weapon in a room full of kids.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Dec 14, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> 
> Yes?
> 
> ...



Perhaps it will prompt a much-needed discussion about mental health in this country, as the issue isnt guns or their availability. 

As with other medical issues, if detected and treated early, mental disorders can be managed in a manner as not to manifest in acts of violence. 

There is also the very difficult issue  in that Americans dont like to talk about it or even acknowledge it  of the basic nature of American culture; where we perceive violence as a legitimate means of conflict resolution. 

However we address the issue, simply banning guns, or placing greater restrictions on guns will succeed in only diminishing our civil liberties and allowing the violence to continue.


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## Mr. Peepers (Dec 14, 2012)

How do you know the shooter wasn't a teacher?  From what I read, the principal and guidance counselor were killed...


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## KissMy (Dec 14, 2012)

Children are among at least 12 people killed, according to reports by a local newspaper.


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## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Dreamy said:
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> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
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Nope, I will definitely post and comment on any thread I choose but thanks for being so concerned about children and this latest tragedy. That is why you made this thread, right?


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## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

Mr. Peepers said:


> How do you know the shooter wasn't a teacher?  From what I read, the principal and guidance counselor were killed...



We don't know and that is my point Grampa is missing apparently. Knee jerk threads happen on these shootings all the time. I think there are several here already.


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## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> 
> Yes?
> 
> ...



Do we even have all the facts yet? Who was the shooter?


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## KissMy (Dec 14, 2012)

Mr. Peepers said:


> How do you know the shooter wasn't a teacher?  From what I read, the principal and guidance counselor were killed...



Even if a teacher was the shooter, they principal & counselor should have also been armed, but they were not allowed so now their dead.


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## VaYank5150 (Dec 14, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> 
> Yes?
> 
> ...



Gun control is not the answer.  I do not mean to impune these atrocities in any way, but sometimes "shit happens".  I hope I never live in a world where EVERYTHING can be controlled, the good, the bad or the ugly.


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## Truthmatters (Dec 14, 2012)

it was a parent


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## GoneBezerk (Dec 14, 2012)

Well.....using liberal logic....it is a pro-union state.....


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## mjollnir (Dec 14, 2012)

Mr. Peepers said:


> How do you know the shooter wasn't a teacher?  From what I read, the principal and guidance counselor were killed...



Just got an email about the latest body count.

At least 27 deceased, at least 12 of those kids.


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## Truthmatters (Dec 14, 2012)

how about armed guards for schools


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## Wry Catcher (Dec 14, 2012)

The problem isn't the gun, the problem is the NRA and the gun nuts unwilling to come to the table to discuss means to control who gets to own, have in their possession and custody a gun - any gun.


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## TakeAStepBack (Dec 14, 2012)

Ah, yes. The typical LOLberal knee jerk to having a shooting take place in victim zones.

Tell us more of how criminals who weild fire arms will obey the law? And how disarming the people will lead to less acts of gun violence by criminals who do not obey the law. Tell us all about it.


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## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> it was a parent



Just heard that. Various reports emerging. Looks bad.

I will never understand why.


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## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> The problem isn't the gun, the problem is the NRA and the gun nuts unwilling to come to the table to discuss means to control who gets to own, have in their possession and custody a gun - any gun.



There's already laws on the books for that.


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## rightwinger (Dec 14, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> 
> Yes?
> 
> ...



We will all shudder and say how bad it is.

But we are not even allowed to discuss gun violence in this country. It almost cost Bob Costas his job for even mentioning it. We have accepted unrestricted access to guns in this country. There are 270 million in circulation

We will just accept this shooting like we accept all others and wait till the next one

Then we will  just shrug our shoulders again


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## TakeAStepBack (Dec 14, 2012)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> > The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> ...





Tony the Union Goon just proved it too. We have a serious problem with peoples mental state in the US. Guns are not the problem. LOLberalism certainly contributes though.


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## mjollnir (Dec 14, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> Well.....using liberal logic....it is a pro-union state.....



You wouldn't know logic if it were fucking you up the ass, which is ironic, since it does that every time you post.


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## GoneBezerk (Dec 14, 2012)

Schools should have 1 police guard in them, at least at the high school level.

The school should also have 1-2 people in the front office trained and armed to carry a 9mm inside the school.


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## GoneBezerk (Dec 14, 2012)

Actually shithead....you dumbfuck liberals try to equate bad things/low pay in RTW states....so just pointing out how stupid you are....



mjollnir said:


> GoneBezerk said:
> 
> 
> > Well.....using liberal logic....it is a pro-union state.....
> ...


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## WillowTree (Dec 14, 2012)

Fox news just reported 26 dead.


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## Truthmatters (Dec 14, 2012)

merry fucking christmas


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## hazlnut (Dec 14, 2012)

Nova78 said:


> Time to arm the teachers ?
> 
> Boy, what a well thought out statement....




He's old.

And stupid.

And poor.

And a waste of bed space at the home.


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## WillowTree (Dec 14, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> merry fucking christmas



stfu


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## Truthmatters (Dec 14, 2012)

Gun worship from the right is doing this


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## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> Fox news just reported 26 dead.



Damn! I heard the shooter had 2 weapons.

I am angry at the shooter, not the guns.


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## OKTexas (Dec 14, 2012)

Maybe we should have a discussion about holidays, violence seem to rise this time of year, or maybe it's winter, cold, cloudy days are depressing so maybe global warming isn't a bad thing. We can speculate all day, but really what good will it do. I just know you can't blame a tractor for a lousy harvest, it's just a tool.


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## hazlnut (Dec 14, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> Actually shithead....you dumbfuck liberals try to equate bad things/low pay in RTW states....so just pointing out how stupid you are....



By talking out of your ass?


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## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> Gun worship from the right is doing this



Here we go...get the straight jacket ready...and a bottle of "Jack"


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## mjollnir (Dec 14, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> Actually shithead....you dumbfuck liberals try to equate bad things/low pay in RTW states....so just pointing out how stupid you are....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry, Senora Turd, not a liberal, and I've never tried to equate anything like that.

I'd ask you to be less stupid, but even that's beyond you, and I hate to see an animal suffer.


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## tap4154 (Dec 14, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> Schools should have 1 police guard in them, at least at the high school level.
> 
> The school should also have 1-2 people in the front office trained and armed to carry a 9mm inside the school.



IMO there should be several teachers or other school employees secretly carrying and well-trained in handling guns. When you have a uniformed guard the perp will try to take him out first.

Beyond comprehension... 18 kids dead, and 8 teachers?

RIP


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## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> Gun worship from the right is doing this



Bullshit TM.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Dreamy said:
> ...



Yes it is. I don't nor will I ever own a firearm.


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## GoneBezerk (Dec 14, 2012)

Ok, you're a fringe losertarian.

Don't worry...some liberal will come along equating gun violence to RTW states.....you're just too stupid to know it will happen.



mjollnir said:


> GoneBezerk said:
> 
> 
> > Actually shithead....you dumbfuck liberals try to equate bad things/low pay in RTW states....so just pointing out how stupid you are....
> ...


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## TakeAStepBack (Dec 14, 2012)

TM isn't to be listened to. She is to be mocked and hope for a suite meltdown. That's her contribution here. Nothing more.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

One bullet could have saved countless lives


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## mjollnir (Dec 14, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > merry fucking christmas
> ...



Fucking idiot.  

This is an immense tragedy, but that the fact that it happened now means that a lot of people will celebrate their Christmases by burying their loved ones.

So merry fucking Christmas indeed, you doorknob.


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## Truthmatters (Dec 14, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > merry fucking christmas
> ...



Your hate filled world is seething over in this country


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## GHook93 (Dec 14, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> 
> Yes?
> 
> ...



Gun control wouldn't have stopped this! What would have stopped this if some of the teacher were armed.

I am not for student in college being armed, but what about the professors. Obviously in this case the kids wouldn't be armed, but if even one teacher was armed there could have been an immediate response!


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## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Grampa, this is one of those issues I truly wish we could all come together on in the belief we all want to keep our children safe.

I support the right to carry. I do not support the right to carry a gun into a school to murder people.


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## mjollnir (Dec 14, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> Ok, you're a fringe losertarian.
> 
> Don't worry...some liberal will come along equating gun violence to RTW states.....you're just too stupid to know it will happen.
> 
> ...



Yawn.  Your monkey English is why you're unemployed, Senora.


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## GoneBezerk (Dec 14, 2012)

Well, schools need to have better video systems so the guard and front office see someone walk into any entrance and get the jump on him.

As for teachers being armed, that is dangerous if a teacher leaves it behind in a purse, desk, etc then some kid gets the gun. 



tap4154 said:


> GoneBezerk said:
> 
> 
> > Schools should have 1 police guard in them, at least at the high school level.
> ...


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## WillowTree (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



That's your choice but imho it's a mistake.


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## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

mjollnir said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
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> This is an immense tragedy, but that the fact that it happened now means that a lot of people will celebrate their Christmases by burying their loved ones.



All I have been thinking about mj. This is heartbreaking.


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## GoneBezerk (Dec 14, 2012)

Typical resonse of a shitbag.....make up stuff about someone's employment. 

It's kinda hard to make over $100,000 a year without a job....



mjollnir said:


> GoneBezerk said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, you're a fringe losertarian.
> ...


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## Truthmatters (Dec 14, 2012)

yeah miore guns will solve this.

time for this country to STOP worshiping guns and pretending more guns solve everything


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Dreamy said:
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Actually its not my choice. Its the law and I entend to follow it.


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## mjollnir (Dec 14, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> mjollnir said:
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> 
> > WillowTree said:
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Indeed.  And not only burying their loved ones, but burying their children, and coming home to things like unopened presents that they likely already had bought for them, decorations up, etc...

This will shatter those families irreparably already, but because it happened when it did, it's likely Christmas will be the darkest days of the year for the surviving member for the rest of their lives.


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## Mr. Peepers (Dec 14, 2012)

Connecticut news org. reporting 27 dead / 9 adults and 18 children.  I don't know if the shooter is included in that tally.  Awful.  This is worse than Columbine.


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## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> yeah miore guns will solve this.
> 
> time for this country to STOP worshiping guns and pretending more guns solve everything



People who kill innocent people are the problem.

 No one worships objects but I do cherish my rights as an American. Stop using a tragedy to repeat tired talking points.


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## mjollnir (Dec 14, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> Typical resonse of a shitbag.....make up stuff about someone's employment.
> 
> It's kinda hard to make over $100,000 a year with a job....
> 
> ...



"It's kinda hard to make over $100,000 a year with a job...."

Thanks for proving my point, Senora.  Your monkey English is coming through loud and clear.


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## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

Mr. Peepers said:


> Connecticut news org. reporting 27 dead / 9 adults and 18 children.  I don't know if the shooter is included in that tally.  Awful.  This is worse than Columbine.



Reports are the shooter is dead. Not sure if by suicide or by police kill.


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## WillowTree (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> WillowTree said:
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> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
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Oh!.


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## WillowTree (Dec 14, 2012)

Mr. Peepers said:


> Connecticut news org. reporting 27 dead / 9 adults and 18 children.  I don't know if the shooter is included in that tally.  Awful.  This is worse than Columbine.



Fox news reports that the shooter is NOT included in the number of dead.


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## g5000 (Dec 14, 2012)

Let's arm the teachers...

And then one day, a kid gives the wrong answer one time too many, and     * BLAM!*

.


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## OKTexas (Dec 14, 2012)

GHook93 said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> > The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> ...



Yep, police are only minutes away when seconds count. The real first responders are on site when the situation occurs.


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## GoneBezerk (Dec 14, 2012)

Oh lookie, the asswipe saw I typed too fast and left off the "out,"...here's a cookie.

You are just jealous I'm retired military and work contractor jobs when I feel like it.....tough life. 

You = irrelevant.



mjollnir said:


> GoneBezerk said:
> 
> 
> > Typical resonse of a shitbag.....make up stuff about someone's employment.
> ...


----------



## TakeAStepBack (Dec 14, 2012)

The right to bear arms is a right. Take away victim zones and you'll solve some of these inevitable outbursts before they get started. After that, there is no way to stop someone who is nuts from doing nutty things. Guns aren't the problem here. if anything, victim zones are the problem.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

One bullet from an armed adult could have saved countless lives.

I can not stress that enough


----------



## hazlnut (Dec 14, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> Gun sales booming. Crime rates falling.
> 
> That *couldn't* be connected could it?
> 
> ...



Please point out in the article where the FBI showed a direct correlation.


----------



## KissMy (Dec 14, 2012)

What about locking bullet-proof doors making class rooms into safe rooms?


----------



## martybegan (Dec 14, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> The problem isn't the gun, the problem is the NRA and the gun nuts unwilling to come to the table to discuss means to control who gets to own, have in their possession and custody a gun - any gun.



There are already laws in place preventing felons and those with proven mental defects from owning guns. 

What liberals call reasonable gun control is nothing but feel good fluff that only restricts law abiding citizens.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

KissMy said:


> What about locking bullet-proof doors making class rooms into safe rooms?



Fire hazard


----------



## GoneBezerk (Dec 14, 2012)

Or 1-2 adults with balls to tackle the gunman too. 

Gunmen don't have eyes in the back of their head.



Grampa Murked U said:


> One bullet from an armed adult could have saved countless lives.
> 
> I can not stress that enough


----------



## Wry Catcher (Dec 14, 2012)

TakeAStepBack said:


> Ah, yes. The typical LOLberal knee jerk to having a shooting take place in victim zones.
> 
> Tell us more of how criminals who weild fire arms will obey the law? And how disarming the people will lead to less acts of gun violence by criminals who do not obey the law. Tell us all about it.



Ah, yes the typical moronic defense of the Second Amendment.  20 killed, some kids in the latest report, and a gun nut - likely an NRA supporter - focuses solely on his rights.  What rights do the victims have (or had) and what of their parents, their siblings, other students, the school staff, journalists and first responders?

You sit safely and immune to the carnage behind your keyboard and defend your right to own a weapon and argue that this right cannot be infringed.  Well, as long as gun nuts like you, and the NRA refuse to come to the table and find a safe and sane compromise on some form of gun control carnage will continue to occur.  Even if 'you' came to the table it's likely such horrific events will continue to take place.

But don't sweat it, you're safe, sitting at your keyboard and never needing to see the physical consequences of murdered children or watch the grief of their parents and siblings, grandparents and school chums.

Isn't it time to take out that hand gun you own and clean it, fondle it lovingly and thank the founders for giving you the right to own a tool capable of killing other human beings?


----------



## KissMy (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> > What about locking bullet-proof doors making class rooms into safe rooms?
> ...



Fire proof & can be opened from inside. Armed teachers. Everyone including parents should have passed background check prior to being allowed on school property. Armed security restricting admittance while 50 or more students are present.


----------



## kwc57 (Dec 14, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> 
> Yes?
> 
> ...



You must have been in a coma.  The discussion of gun control has been going on for decades.


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

Once we are certain who the shooter is, what his/her motive was and all those other details we might be able to see avenues that could have prevented this, or maybe not. Sometimes really bad things can't be prevented.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> Or 1-2 adults with balls to tackle the gunman too.
> 
> Gunmen don't have eyes in the back of their head.
> 
> ...



I can only imaging that under that kind of duress that thinking like that would be secondary to the fight for survival.


----------



## Gadawg73 (Dec 14, 2012)

In the inner city of every major city in America there is strict gun control and licensing of hand guns. Inner city youth killings are up. Gun laws never work.


----------



## Rat in the Hat (Dec 14, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> yeah miore guns will solve this.
> 
> time for this country to STOP worshiping guns and pretending more guns solve everything



What are "miore guns"? It's possible they may have solved this, if they have the right capabilities.


----------



## Desperado (Dec 14, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> 
> Yes? .



No......
Sick and tire of laws being made for the Lowest Common Denominator.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

I hope Obama goes to this shattered town at the appropriate time.


----------



## TakeAStepBack (Dec 14, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> TakeAStepBack said:
> 
> 
> > Ah, yes. The typical LOLberal knee jerk to having a shooting take place in victim zones.
> ...



They have the right to gun ownership. I suggest they get with the american program.

The rest of your hyperbole and intellectual bankruptcy isn't worth commenting on.


----------



## Gadawg73 (Dec 14, 2012)

Where this happened has some of the toughest gun laws in the country.
Worked real well for those poor kids.
Prayers to their families.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Dec 14, 2012)

TakeAStepBack said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> > MarcATL said:
> ...



Nonsense. 

This isnt partisan, these are problems common throughout American culture.


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

Just reported: He shot up a kindergarten class! I am so angry right now.


----------



## eflatminor (Dec 14, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> 
> Yes?



Sure, if was a firearm, and not a PERSON, that drove to the school and shot everybody.  Then yes, we'd need to control rouge guns.



> They aren't decreasing, their increasing. In both frequency and verocity.
> 
> An elementary school...that's a new low.



True in countries in which they banned all firearms as well.  Hmm...



> And BTW, the answer ain't arm everyone.



Not everyone, just anyone that wishes to have the means to defend themselves and their families.  You are free to cower in the corner of a gun free zone and call 911.  Good luck.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

An entire kindergarden class is unaccounted for...

What does that mean?


----------



## mjollnir (Dec 14, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> Oh lookie, the asswipe saw I typed too fast and left off the "out,"...here's a cookie.
> 
> You are just jealous I'm retired military and work contractor jobs when I feel like it.....tough life.
> 
> ...



LOL!  On the Internet, we're all billionaires and super heros! 

yUo = TaRd


----------



## g5000 (Dec 14, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> Just reported: He shot up a kindergarten class! I am so angry right now.



I am glad these dipshits shoot themselves and save us all the trouble of having to spend a lot of money to do it.

.


----------



## GoneBezerk (Dec 14, 2012)

Yes....some run towards gunfire and some run away. Being trained to react to and being numb to these situations is what the military tries to do with troops. 



Grampa Murked U said:


> GoneBezerk said:
> 
> 
> > Or 1-2 adults with balls to tackle the gunman too.
> ...


----------



## eflatminor (Dec 14, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Where this happened has some of the toughest gun laws in the country.
> Worked real well for those poor kids.
> Prayers to their families.



And in a gun free zone to boot.  Shocking the crazy guy didn't follow the rules.  Shocking I tell you!


----------



## TakeAStepBack (Dec 14, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> In the inner city of every major city in America there is strict gun control and licensing of hand guns. Inner city youth killings are up. Gun laws never work.



That's right. They just get the guns and use them illegally. But burnt turds like wry catcher thinks the answer is to expand victim zones for violent, illegal gun offenders instead of arming and training more people.

My hand guns all had to be transferred over to my step father when i moved to NYC. Because just to get a license here and maintain it is far too costly. NYC is one big ass fuckin' victim zone.


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 14, 2012)

There is nothing to be done. Lets just say a prayer and wait for the next massacre

This is America.

In this country you have the Constitutional right to the weapon of your choice to blow the brains out of a Kindergartner


----------



## Truthmatters (Dec 14, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Where this happened has some of the toughest gun laws in the country.
> Worked real well for those poor kids.
> Prayers to their families.



prayers to the next victims who will surely be killed in this gun mad country


----------



## Synthaholic (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...


Ex-felon?


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> An entire kindergarden class is unaccounted for...
> 
> What does that mean?



 Not sure. One shooter dead, one person in handcuffs but not sure why.


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> There is nothing to be done. Lets just say a prayer and wait for the next massacre
> 
> This is America.
> 
> In this country you have the Constitutional right to the weapon of your choice to blow the brains out of a Kindergartner



You're a complete idiot with that reply.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 14, 2012)

Colorado?  Texas?  Kentucky?

Yup, you are illogical as ever.  Grow up, GB.  We got our butts beat by the Dems, and you whining won't help.



GoneBezerk said:


> Well.....using liberal logic....it is a pro-union state.....


----------



## WillowTree (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> An entire kindergarden class is unaccounted for...
> 
> What does that mean?



It probably means they're dead.


----------



## Gadawg73 (Dec 14, 2012)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> TakeAStepBack said:
> 
> 
> > C_Clayton_Jones said:
> ...



I agree 100%
There is a culture of violence in many areas of our society.
In some it is accepted as reflected in the music they listen to. 
But gun laws never changes that. Starts with parenting and not blaming others for the problems you have.


----------



## Truthmatters (Dec 14, 2012)

its what gun worship has given this country


----------



## eflatminor (Dec 14, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> There is nothing to be done. Lets just say a prayer and wait for the next massacre



That, or prepare yourself.  Your call.



> This is America.



Right...baby steps.  You'll get there.



> In this country you have the Constitutional right to the weapon of your choice...



Nope, just a firearm.  Not all weapons are firearms.



> to blow the brains out of a Kindergartner



Not over the top at all...


----------



## GoneBezerk (Dec 14, 2012)

Yes....compared to you I am rich and a super hero, you just admitted it.

Now go drown yourself in your outhouse.



mjollnir said:


> GoneBezerk said:
> 
> 
> > Oh lookie, the asswipe saw I typed too fast and left off the "out,"...here's a cookie.
> ...


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 14, 2012)

Oh, I hope not.



WillowTree said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > An entire kindergarden class is unaccounted for...
> ...


----------



## GoneBezerk (Dec 14, 2012)

Idiot...it was too deep for your shallow mind.



JakeStarkey said:


> Colorado?  Texas?  Kentucky?
> 
> Yup, you are illogical as ever.  Grow up, GB.  We got our butts beat by the Dems, and you whining won't help.
> 
> ...


----------



## g5000 (Dec 14, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > An entire kindergarden class is unaccounted for...
> ...



My guess would be the handcuffed person is a frantic parent who would not listen to the cops to stay back.

.


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 14, 2012)

eflatminor said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > There is nothing to be done. Lets just say a prayer and wait for the next massacre
> ...



Relax

You have won. Nobody is going to take your guns. This is America

You are free to have the weapon of your choice to shoot Congresswomen, Movie Theaters, Malls at Christmas and Kindergarten classrooms


----------



## WillowTree (Dec 14, 2012)

posibility of two shooters? one is in custody? Fox News


----------



## mjollnir (Dec 14, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> Yes....compared to you I am rich and a super hero, you just admitted it.
> 
> Now go drown yourself in your outhouse.
> 
> ...



No, not really.  You're an emotional cripple desperately trying to derail this thread and make it about you to prop up your paper-thin sense of self-worth.

But, of course, that's all you ever do.


----------



## TakeAStepBack (Dec 14, 2012)

Captain hyperbole called. He'd like for you to find a new shtick. That one is his.


----------



## GoneBezerk (Dec 14, 2012)

Scum of the Earth shoot innocent people....even worse is shooting children.

Of course, liberals being scum are now talking up gun bans on msnbc.

As if some psycho won't get a gun to do this act from some underground network....because nobody can get drugs in this country.....nah.


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > An entire kindergarden class is unaccounted for...
> ...



Yes. 



Live feed

Channel 3 Eyewitness News Livestream - WFSB 3 Connecticut


----------



## Wry Catcher (Dec 14, 2012)

TakeAStepBack said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > TakeAStepBack said:
> ...



Of course you won't comment; my "hyperbole" (really, put on the news) and "intellecutual bankruptcy" is emotion based - I'm angry - but it takes someone who has empathy and concern for others to understand.  

I suspect you even consider yourself a Christian.


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




More stupidity from RW.  Anyone else starting to get the impression from RW's posts that he's around 14 years old?

No adult can be as much of a simpleton as this character.


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

g5000 said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Could be. Panic is everywhere I am sure. If my child was in there I can only imagine. My heart aches.


----------



## GoneBezerk (Dec 14, 2012)

Like I said....go fuck yourself, asswipe. I'm not playing your game anymore.



mjollnir said:


> GoneBezerk said:
> 
> 
> > Yes....compared to you I am rich and a super hero, you just admitted it.
> ...


----------



## Gadawg73 (Dec 14, 2012)

I worked a case in Hahira, Ga. years ago where a man had a property dispute with his neighbor. Neighbor was weed eating out by the road and the elderly neighbor thought he was on his property. Elderly man attempts to stop man with the weed eater and man with weed eater attacks him with the weed eater. Man being attacked had injuries and died of a heart attack.
We need a 3 day waiting period on weed eaters. Drive way weeds can wait 3 days.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



Sadly yes. 

I figured everyone on here knew by now.


----------



## candycorn (Dec 14, 2012)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> > The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> ...





I disagree.  Here is why.

The same movies, television shows, books, comedians, etc... are available in Europe, Asia, and America.  Compare the gun deaths in the advanced countries in those regions to that what we have in the US. 

We have essentially the same culture or at least the same access to influences upon that culuture.  You could see Skyfall in any theater in London, Paris, etc...  The violent XBOX games are just as violent in Tokyo as they are in Texas.  Books are books wherever they are sold--you can download them to your Kindle in any country.  I don't see where you have a valid claim as to our culture being much different.  

 What we have that they don't is a dumbass amendment that has been twisted into an insane take on the founding fathers' wishes.


----------



## Plasmaball (Dec 14, 2012)

Sigh the simple solution is you lock all doors, and people need to be buzzed in. That will make it harder, but then you need a simple medal detector once inside. Mostly just for the adults coming in. 

This would take funding, so not sure if people would be ok with it. 

The easy fix to this is that there is no easy fix to this.


----------



## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 14, 2012)

PredFan said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> > The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> ...


could be the dumbest comment of all time


----------



## Gadawg73 (Dec 14, 2012)

Last time I looked murder was not a Constitutional right be it from gun, knife or poison.


----------



## candycorn (Dec 14, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > eflatminor said:
> ...



Feel free to point out the inaccuracy in his post.


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 14, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> I worked a case in Hahira, Ga. years ago where a man had a property dispute with his neighbor. Neighbor was weed eating out by the road and the elderly neighbor thought he was on his property. Elderly man attempts to stop man with the weed eater and man with weed eater attacks him with the weed eater. Man being attacked had injuries and died of a heart attack.
> We need a 3 day waiting period on weed eaters. Drive way weeds can wait 3 days.



Phone me when someone shoots up a mall at Christmas with a weed eater

Or blows the brains out of a Kindergartner


----------



## eflatminor (Dec 14, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> ...emotion based...



EVERYTHING the leftist central planners advocate is emotionally based.  Logic and reason have no role in the progressive agenda.

But maybe, if we all get REALLY angry, we can un-invent firearms?  Go back to throwing spears at wild game.  Now THOSE were the days!


----------



## GoneBezerk (Dec 14, 2012)

So shitbag.....criminals will no longer have guns???

Oh, you want Joe Schmoe the normal taxpayer to turn in his guns because he is white, drives a truck and has never broken the law.....and is trained to shoot evil people like this guy in CT.



MarcATL said:


> The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> 
> Yes?
> 
> ...


----------



## Gadawg73 (Dec 14, 2012)

Hate to tell you folks but it was not the gun that will be charged with murder in this case.
Why not?
Because a PERSON killed these kids.
Gun control would not have stopped this guy. Criminals have guns and CT has strict laws NOW.


----------



## OKTexas (Dec 14, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> TakeAStepBack said:
> 
> 
> > Ah, yes. The typical LOLberal knee jerk to having a shooting take place in victim zones.
> ...



Why do you think guys like this choose schools or theaters, could it be they know they won't be opposed. Creating gun free zones (free kill zones) are part of the problem. Having responsible armed citizens any where and every where would be a deterrent for these types of incidents. I have a CHL and pray I never find myself in a position where my gun would be needed, but I would not hesitate to protect myself or others if the situation called for it.


----------



## WillowTree (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



I had forgotten.


----------



## Gadawg73 (Dec 14, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > I worked a case in Hahira, Ga. years ago where a man had a property dispute with his neighbor. Neighbor was weed eating out by the road and the elderly neighbor thought he was on his property. Elderly man attempts to stop man with the weed eater and man with weed eater attacks him with the weed eater. Man being attacked had injuries and died of a heart attack.
> ...



Ever heard of Tim McVeigh?
How many kids did he kill and was it a gun?
Find out how easy it was for McVeigh to get the fertilizer and diesel fuel and get back to me.
What legislation do you support to ban fertilizer and diesel fuel?


----------



## Truthmatters (Dec 14, 2012)

How sad this country has become.

killing kids all in the name of gun worship.


The answer of stupid poeople?

More guns to solve it


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Dec 14, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> 
> Yes?
> 
> ...



Yeah we don't have enough gun laws.

Fucking asshole


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

candycorn said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Why?  Can't you do it yourself?


*"You are free to have the weapon of your choice to shoot Congresswomen, Movie Theaters, Malls at Christmas and Kindergarten classrooms.*

You want to back him up and say that's why people buy guns and it's a reason to stop law abiding people from owning one?

Go right head.....and then check other some of his other "gems".


----------



## Gadawg73 (Dec 14, 2012)

McVeigh killed 160 people.
What gun law would have stopped him?


----------



## GoneBezerk (Dec 14, 2012)

Actually, the person was either buzzed in after doors were locked or got in with the kids during the morning rush. 

School guards at 1 entrance with metal detectors could've prevented this crap. All adults get frisked by the guards, period.



Plasmaball said:


> Sigh the simple solution is you lock all doors, and people need to be buzzed in. That will make it harder, but then you need a simple medal detector once inside. Mostly just for the adults coming in.
> 
> This would take funding, so not sure if people would be ok with it.
> 
> The easy fix to this is that there is no easy fix to this.


----------



## Gadawg73 (Dec 14, 2012)

How about we wait and get all the facts in before we start the hysteria "it was the gun's fault".


----------



## WillowTree (Dec 14, 2012)

Plasmaball said:


> Sigh the simple solution is you lock all doors, and people need to be buzzed in. That will make it harder, but then you need a simple medal detector once inside. Mostly just for the adults coming in.
> 
> This would take funding, so not sure if people would be ok with it.
> 
> The easy fix to this is that there is no easy fix to this.



That could work and it would be worth it. These cowardly shooters pick on places like schools and churches because they know weapons aren't allowed there. I'm all for armed security too. Instead of hiring a hundred thousand more teachers obama needs to but armed security in our nation's schools. I'd be willing to help pay for it.


----------



## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 14, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> I worked a case in Hahira, Ga. years ago where a man had a property dispute with his neighbor. Neighbor was weed eating out by the road and the elderly neighbor thought he was on his property. Elderly man attempts to stop man with the weed eater and man with weed eater attacks him with the weed eater. Man being attacked had injuries and died of a heart attack.
> We need a 3 day waiting period on weed eaters. Drive way weeds can wait 3 days.


when weed eater attacks because one of the leading causes of violence in the nation we can have that discussion.


----------



## Rat in the Hat (Dec 14, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> Actually, the person was either buzzed in after doors were locked or got in with the kids during the morning rush.
> 
> School guards at 1 entrance with metal detectors could've prevented this crap. All adults get frisked by the guards, period.
> 
> ...



Sadly, you would have to frisk the kids too, to prevent an adult from using them as a "mule".


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 14, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Hate to tell you folks but it was not the gun that will be charged with murder in this case.
> Why not?
> Because a PERSON killed these kids.
> Gun control would not have stopped this guy. Criminals have guns and CT has strict laws NOW.



Who gives a shit?

This is America. If you want a handgun, shotgun or AK-47 to shoot your way to glory you are welcome to it

We almost have a gun for every man, woman and child in America.....why are we surprised when they are used?


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Plasmaball said:


> Sigh the simple solution is you lock all doors, and people need to be buzzed in. That will make it harder, but then you need a simple medal detector once inside. Mostly just for the adults coming in.
> 
> This would take funding, so not sure if people would be ok with it.
> 
> The easy fix to this is that there is no easy fix to this.



Every idea is worthy of consideration.


----------



## bodecea (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> 
> I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.



An excellent idea.   Maybe the little ones will get their homework done now.  Maybe the parents will be a little more civil during parent conferences.


----------



## GoneBezerk (Dec 14, 2012)

Aren't handguns banned in Chicago....yet black males are killing black males like it's going out of style.


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Hate to tell you folks but it was not the gun that will be charged with murder in this case.
> ...






We have schools to learn at too...use one!

God this guy is dense.

He actually thinks a gun, an inanimate object is what causes this.  It wouldn't be a twisted, sick mind hell bent on killing...no it's the gun's fault.


----------



## bodecea (Dec 14, 2012)

Glensather said:


> I think that all persons over the age of 18 should be required to own a gun, and that starting at an early age, children should be educated on how to properly wield a weapon, about gun safety, and about how to take care of your weapon. Shit like this wouldn't happen if your entire workforce is armed with even a simple 9 millimeter.



You are right.   Shit LIKE THIS won't happen.


----------



## NLT (Dec 14, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> Gun worship from the right is doing this









And your little dog too ...twit


----------



## bodecea (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> So far one SMALL CHILD is deceased.
> 
> It is past the time to give our educators the ability to defend our children!



"deceased".   No big.  Our rights are worth it.


----------



## Plasmaball (Dec 14, 2012)

Regardless of how everyone feels, this was 14 or so kindergarden kids, this changes the game for people.


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 14, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > beretta304 said:
> ...



God forbid

I have never said we should try to stop people from having guns, this is America...nobody can get in the way of you getting your favorite weapon

I am just saying we should suck it up and accept massacres as part of being an American


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

School's website

http://www.newtown.k12.ct.us/


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

I got BLASTED by the left for creating my pro gun thread earlier. Negs and all claiming I was politicizing this. Did you get the same treatment Marc?


----------



## blackhawk (Dec 14, 2012)

What would the answer to these shootings be? If you look back at the most recent of these incidents they have something in common that seems important at least to me the shooters have no criminal record no history of violence no known mental problems and spent a fair amount of time planning out their attacks how do you stop someone like this? Could you ban assault weapons yes high capacity magazines yes but you get a Glock with say a 10 or 12 round clip load up four or five of those and you can still unload a lot of rounds quickly.The Norway shooter Anders Breivik did his damage by setting off a bomb and using a 9mm Glock and a semi-automatic Ruger Mini-14 rifle both of which he obtained legally in Norway I don't know the requirement's to own a gun in Norway but I suspect they are stricter than our's. How do you stop nut's determined to go on a killing spree? I don't know that you can.


----------



## bodecea (Dec 14, 2012)

KissMy said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > C_Clayton_Jones said:
> ...


Tazers for Teachers, huh?    This could be great motivation for students to learn.   Wonderful idea!


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...





Just like we should suck it up and accept that 1/2 the country should stay on the dole while the rest support them...Just accept it, right?


----------



## Plasmaball (Dec 14, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> Actually, the person was either buzzed in after doors were locked or got in with the kids during the morning rush.
> 
> School guards at 1 entrance with metal detectors could've prevented this crap. All adults get frisked by the guards, period.
> 
> ...



No system is perfect but its a two step solution.


----------



## GoneBezerk (Dec 14, 2012)

Schools should only allow people in through the front doors that have those airport metal detectors you walk through and they could be manned by 2-4 guards in the morning then 1 guard stay on station for the day in a bulletproof room next to the entrance.

2-3 teachers/admin officials should each have a locked gun in a secret location they can access in 5 minutes. They should be trained by the local police department and their weapons registered with the city police. 

When shitbags realize it is hard to get into a school then they will be forced to find another target most likely a church or mall. A church in Colorado Springs had someone show up to shoot it up during services about 1-2 years ago but a church guard I believe killed the person in the parking lot when they approached the strange man.


----------



## eflatminor (Dec 14, 2012)

LeftCoastVoter said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > I worked a case in Hahira, Ga. years ago where a man had a property dispute with his neighbor. Neighbor was weed eating out by the road and the elderly neighbor thought he was on his property. Elderly man attempts to stop man with the weed eater and man with weed eater attacks him with the weed eater. Man being attacked had injuries and died of a heart attack.
> ...



By your logic, we'll have to discuss outlawing a lot of things...

Cause of death, Count, % of children

Motor vehicle  4,550  46.2% 
Drowning  2,102  17.4% 
Fire/burn  482  10.6% 
Suffocation  250  5.5% 
Pedestrian, Other  145  3.2% 
Other Land Transport  144  3.2% 
Fall  98  2.2% 
Poisoning  81  1.8% 
Natural/ Environment  73  1.6% 
Firearm  72  1.6% 
Other Transport  68  1.5% 
Struck by or Against  67  1.5% 
Other Spec., classifiable 62  1.1% 

Center for Disease Control, 2001, All Races, Both Sexes, Ages: 1-14


----------



## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 14, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...


McVeigh purchased a large quantity of ammonium nitrate for his bomb. since the attack AN is a controlled substance with regulations governing its sales.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Dec 14, 2012)

Libs using the death of innocent kids to push their anti-gun agenda.

Wow

Shocking


----------



## nesta (Dec 14, 2012)

VaYank5150 said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> > The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> ...



actually that shit happens mostly just in america, cause you dont have gun laws and the rest of the free world does


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 14, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



I know better than to expect any type of legislation

This is America and we are perfectly fine with our occaisional massacre. As long as we don't impede free and open access to the weapon of your choice


----------



## Plasmaball (Dec 14, 2012)

You people need to stop with the hyperbole. Arming teachers is not a solution. Gun control is not a solution either.


----------



## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 14, 2012)

eflatminor said:


> LeftCoastVoter said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...


apparently sarcasm is lost on some people.


----------



## Wry Catcher (Dec 14, 2012)

OKTexas said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > TakeAStepBack said:
> ...



Do you have any evidence that shooters choose a primary school or movie theater for the reason "they won't be opposed"?  Isn't this comment  simply an effort to claim everyone should be armed?

I don't have any answers; what I do know is the proliferation of guns in our society is a problem.  That the gun nuts won't even acknowledge that guns are a problem is outrageous.

PS  What is also outrageous and disgusting is that elected officials - of both parties - don't have the balls to put this issue on their radar.  Any elected official who won't take the issue of the proliferation of gun is not a leader -  for their sole concern is their own reelection.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Libs using the death of innocent kids to push their anti-gun agenda.
> 
> Wow
> 
> Shocking



It is a fair debate and no better time than the present to have it.


----------



## OKTexas (Dec 14, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Hate to tell you folks but it was not the gun that will be charged with murder in this case.
> ...



And yet so few of them are misused, explain that. A child is more likely to be beaten to death by a caretaker or be killed by a plastic bag or bedding, than a person with a gun.


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 14, 2012)

eflatminor said:


> LeftCoastVoter said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



_ Motor vehicle  4,550  46.2%  _

If motor vehicles are a leading cause of death, maybe we should pass laws requiring licensing, making cars safer, banning people from driving, making roads safer....Wait, we are already doing that

But try to make gun violence less likely and you are not a real American


----------



## Staidhup (Dec 14, 2012)

The bottom line is enforcement and judicial. Until such time the commission of a crime with a firearm is punishable by death, not life in prison, this issue will remain unresolved. Regardless of all the gun control legislation one can pass this will never address the simple issue that if a person wants to obtain a firearm and commit a crime they will do so. Legislation only applies to the law abiding citizens who are not the person(s) committing violent crimes. The issue that confronts this country is the liberal belief that you simply tamper with the constitution, pass a law, and expect the outcome to solve the problem.

The one glaring fact that some have addressed is that these very people committing these heinous crimes are so sick and twisted thay lack the mental capacity and courage to kill themselves and elect to have law enforcement end their lives.


----------



## Ravi (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> I hope Obama goes to this shattered town at the appropriate time.


I hope your business fails. Soon.


----------



## GoneBezerk (Dec 14, 2012)

Taking guns away from people who follow the law isn't going to solve the problem with criminals. 

The solution is more security guards in places that get attacked, like the mall, schools, etc. Also, metal detectors to enter schools. 

Entering a school isn't a right, you need to prove you are a worker, student, parent, etc with legit business in the school and you aren't carrying a knife, gun, bomb. 

Someone could kill kids in a school with a knife, banning guns doesn't prevent someone killing with a knife or even blowing up the school with a car/truck bomb.


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...






Join the NRA and educate yourself on the topic.  Guns in the wrong hands can't be rectified by taking them out of responsible hands.  And gun aficinados don't deny that guns can be misused.  Renegade cops have misused their weapons to kill.  Want to disarm all the police because of a few.


----------



## hazlnut (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Another wingnut jumping at the chance to politicize a tragedy.
> ...



No.  It's your chronic diarrhea of the mouth acting up again.

You were the first idiot out of the gate to post this story and you added your moronic statement.

10 Children are dead.

Take your meds and call the nurse to change your diapers.  I suspect that all the talking out your ass has made quite a mess.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Plasmaball said:


> You people need to stop with the hyperbole. Arming teachers is not a solution. Gun control is not a solution either.



An armed teacher could have shot this perp dead after he shot his first few victims. Lives could have been saved. That is part of a solution.


----------



## martybegan (Dec 14, 2012)

nesta said:


> VaYank5150 said:
> 
> 
> > MarcATL said:
> ...



Oh, Hai there!


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 14, 2012)

OKTexas said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



That is comforting


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

Not sure if this is all factual but:

It is being reported the now dead  gunman is in his 20s, was buzzed in, was wearing camo pants and was heard arguing with someone before he started walking from classroom to classroom shooting. Reports are an entire kindergarten class was gunned down.


----------



## martybegan (Dec 14, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> > LeftCoastVoter said:
> ...



If you make it so anyone not a felon or a mental case (proven
0 can walk into a DMV after the age of 18 and get a gun liscence, and be able to carry one on the street I would be all for it.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > I hope Obama goes to this shattered town at the appropriate time.
> ...



Why are you such a bitch? Such hate in your life. Must suck to be so despicable


----------



## GoneBezerk (Dec 14, 2012)

Uh, a trained person shooting back would either wound, kill or scare off the shooter before the police get there some 10-30 minutes later. 

Someone having no threat against them while the police drive to the scene gets to kill as many people they want until they run out of bullets.



Plasmaball said:


> You people need to stop with the hyperbole. Arming teachers is not a solution. Gun control is not a solution either.


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



*There RW goes again.  See how he ignores what you asked him?*


*"And yet so few of them are misused, explain that."*

This is what he did all day yesterday on this thread:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/267428-watching-boehner-news-conference-now.html#post6489934

Thanks for doing it yet again...twice today alone.    It's what he does on EVERY thread.


*rightwinger = ZERO credibility.*


----------



## Ravi (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



You politicized a tragedy, you're a sick fuck.


----------



## Plasmaball (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > You people need to stop with the hyperbole. Arming teachers is not a solution. Gun control is not a solution either.
> ...



Its not going to happen.


----------



## eflatminor (Dec 14, 2012)

nesta said:


> VaYank5150 said:
> 
> 
> > MarcATL said:
> ...



I would agree with you, but you're wrong.

Countries with the strictest gun-control laws also tended to have the highest homicide rates (Violence, Guns and Drugs: A Cross-Country Analysis, Jeffery A. Miron, Department of Economics, Boston University, University of Chicago Press Journal of Law & Economics, October 2001.)

According to the U.N., as of 2005, Scotland was the most violent country in the developed world, with people three times more likely to be assaulted than in America.  Violent crime there has doubled over the last 20 years. 3% of Scots had been victims of assault compared with 1.2% in America. (Scotland tops list of world's most violent countries, The Times, September 19, 2005)

According to "Minutes of Evidence" (Colin Greenwood, Select Committee on Northern Ireland Affairs, January 29, 2003), &#8220;... the major surveys completed in the 
past 20 years or more provides no evidence of any relationship between the total number of legally held firearms in society and the rate of armed crime. Nor is there a relationship between the severity of controls imposed in various countries or the mass of bureaucracy involved with many control systems with the apparent ease of access to firearms by criminals and terrorists.&#8221;

And lastly, many of the countries with the strictest gun control have the highest rates of violent crime.  Australia and England, which have virtually banned gun ownership, have the highest rates of robbery, sexual assault, and assault with force of the top 17 industrialized countries. (Criminal Victimization in Seventeen Industrialized Countries, Dutch Ministry of Justice, 2001)

And then there's the pesky little fact that the worst school shooting did not occur in America, but in Russia.


----------



## hazlnut (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > You people need to stop with the hyperbole. Arming teachers is not a solution. Gun control is not a solution either.
> ...



Because your average teacher is so confident with a handgun...??  FUCK are you stupid.

Just shut your stupid pie hole, you dumb old fuck.

18 children were killed because of idiots like you.


----------



## Plasmaball (Dec 14, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> Not sure if this is all factual but:
> 
> It is being reported the now dead  gunman is in his 20s, was buzzed in, was wearing camo pants and was heard arguing with someone before he started walking from classroom to classroom shooting. Reports are an entire kindergarten class was gunned down.



24 and a parent, had a vest on as well.


----------



## Plasmaball (Dec 14, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> Uh, a trained person shooting back would either wound, kill or scare off the shooter before the police get there some 10-30 minutes later.
> 
> Someone having no threat against them while the police drive to the scene gets to kill as many people they want until they run out of bullets.
> 
> ...



No.


----------



## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 14, 2012)

martybegan said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > eflatminor said:
> ...


there are laws on the book which can revoke or suspend drivers licenses for many reasons. they vary by state since states issue license. 

this is for GA

- Homicide by vehicle.
- Any felony in the commission of which a motor vehicle is used.
- Using a motor vehicle in fleeing or attempting to elude an officer.
- Fraudulent application for a license or fictitious use of a license.
- Hit and run or leaving the scene of an accident.
- Racing.
- Operating a motor vehicle with a revoked, canceled, or suspended registration.
- Felony forgery relating to an Identification document.

- Refusal to take a chemical test in conjunction with an arrest for DUI.
- Conviction for driving without insurance.
-- If convicted for driving while license is suspended, the customer's driver's license will be further suspended for six months.
- Failure to appear in court or respond to a traffic citation, your license may be suspended indefinitely.
- Any violation of the Georgia Control Substance Act.
- DDS is authorized to suspend your license if its records or other evidence shows that you have accumulated 15 - points within 24 months under the point system, including violations committed out of state. Select for information on Points and Points Reduction.
- A conviction for driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

are you saying we should have similar laws for guns?


----------



## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 14, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > OKTexas said:
> ...


is gun violence against children and more or less severe than gun violence against adults?


----------



## OKTexas (Dec 14, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Got to have a little perspective. Facts are what they are.


----------



## The Infidel (Dec 14, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> Not sure if this is all factual but:
> 
> It is being reported the now dead  gunman is in his 20s, was buzzed in, was wearing camo pants and was heard arguing with someone before he started walking from classroom to classroom shooting. Reports are an entire kindergarten class was gunned down.



What a sad tragedy...

I hate to jump to conclusions, but I wonder if this guy was a gamer (played those violent shooting games).
I have never liked those games..

Just a thought.

My prayers go out to the people involved. That goes out to police and medical personnel as well.
That has got to be the toughest crime scene to work. 
I couldn't do it.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Dec 14, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> > The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> ...



Unrestricted access? Lie much? There are THOUSANDS of laws on the books detailing who can and can not buy firearms, to include waiting periods and restrictions. As well as laws on what punishment will be meted out for those that use them. All more laws do is restricted law abiding citizens from their rights as protected by the second amendment.


----------



## GoneBezerk (Dec 14, 2012)

Bullet proof vests are not bullet proof....


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 14, 2012)

It's comforting to know that the answer to these sorts of disasters are posted here on the Internet so soon after they occur.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



I haven't politicized anything you twit. My thread is the same as Marcs.  Its an open discussion of current events. And my wish for Obama to visit was earnest.  They need to know the nation is with them and his presence would achieve that.

Meanwhile YOU continue to be a hateful spineless bitch.


----------



## Wry Catcher (Dec 14, 2012)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Libs using the death of innocent kids to push their anti-gun agenda.
> 
> Wow
> 
> Shocking



I envy you, not having empathy and being callous must make your life blissful.


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

Reports are that they have found a dead body in the home of the shooter's mother in Newtown.  They have his name but are not reporting it yet.


----------



## The Infidel (Dec 14, 2012)

Plasmaball said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure if this is all factual but:
> ...



Wonder if an armed officer could have even taken him out, much less a kindergarten teacher.

This is getting more horrible by the minute.

I tried to get thru an entire news report w/o tearing up & can't do it.

This sucks!


----------



## Wacky Quacky (Dec 14, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> > LeftCoastVoter said:
> ...



Not at all true. We require background checks, a waiting period, an age requirement, registration, certain weapons are illegal or require jumping through hoops just to get. 

We have controls in place.


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Libs using the death of innocent kids to push their anti-gun agenda.
> ...



Come on, man.  You used that "callous" routine yesterday before you 'high-tailed" out of that thread yesterday.  You were even criticised for running away.


----------



## boilermaker55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Posted by one of the biggest goons and fools on the board.
Nice try.



TakeAStepBack said:


> TM isn't to be listened to. She is to be mocked and hope for a suite meltdown. That's her contribution here. Nothing more.


----------



## HUGGY (Dec 14, 2012)

Tragedies like this are hard to bear.  The thought of losing young kids to a madman is so vile and shocking that no one can really wrap their mind around it. 

From what I gather this is a domestic possibly a child custody dispute that has gone horribly wrong.  

Our forefathers knew that tragedies could occur from time to time involving guns.   The second amendment is number two right behind free speach and freedom of the press because they felt so strongly about it.

This is clearly the worst massacre of this nature.  There will be others sometime down the line.  It is one of the terrible costs of citizens having weapons.  Those of us that believe in the 2nd amendment are grieving no less than those that oppose it. 

You of faith should just pray for the souls of the lost and wounded and I will continue my faith in the constitution of this country.


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure if this is all factual but:
> ...



For those who are reading this and believe in the power of prayer please pray for these children, the adults and all those working this horror.

The trauma, both physical and emotional, will affect these people for years to come.

These are such very little children. I have tears in my eyes. This is not suppose to happen to our children.


----------



## jillian (Dec 14, 2012)

OKTexas said:


> A person who is willing to give up liberty for security, deserves neither liberty or security. End discussion.



puleeze... you don't care about liberty when it comes to women, gays or latinos.

who do you think you're kidding?


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> Tragedies like this are hard to bear.  The thought of losing young kids to a madman is so vile and shocking that no one can really wrap their mind around it.
> 
> From what I gather this is a domestic possibly a child custody dispute that has gone horribly wrong.
> 
> ...


----------



## boilermaker55 (Dec 14, 2012)

One of the best posts today, 
Thank you.





Dreamy said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Dreamy said:
> ...


----------



## The Infidel (Dec 14, 2012)

jillian said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> > A person who is willing to give up liberty for security, deserves neither liberty or security. End discussion.
> ...



Shut up already Jillian...!


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> Tragedies like this are hard to bear.  The thought of losing young kids to a madman is so vile and shocking that no one can really wrap their mind around it.
> 
> From what I gather this is a domestic possibly a child custody dispute that has gone horribly wrong.
> 
> ...



Thank you sir. Much appreciate your words.  I am in prayer and my faith in our US Constitution is strong.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 14, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> 
> Yes?
> 
> ...



Bullshit.

{Last week, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) announced that violent crime decreased 4 percent in 2011. The number of murders, rapes, robberies and aggravated assaults all went down, continuing a pattern.

This is not a one-year anomaly, but a steady decline in the FBIs violent-crime rates, said Andrew Arulanandam, spokesman for the National Rifle Association. It would be disingenuous for anyone to not credit increased self-defense laws to account for this decline.}
MILLER: Gun ownership up, crime down - Washington Times

You communists are such fucking liars.


----------



## martybegan (Dec 14, 2012)

LeftCoastVoter said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Considering the right to a drivers liscense is not in the consitution, no. But we already ban felons from having guns. Alot of states also impose bans for violent misdemenors and domestic violence cases.


----------



## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 14, 2012)

jillian said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> > A person who is willing to give up liberty for security, deserves neither liberty or security. End discussion.
> ...


another example of the hypocrisy of the conservative party.


----------



## kwc57 (Dec 14, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



You left out criminals breaking into your home.


----------



## boilermaker55 (Dec 14, 2012)

You need to really become a REAL person and stop with all of your ideology and partisan bull right now.




regent said:


> Is America willing to turn the safety of its children over to common union thugs? What some are suggesting is arming union thugs. As I remember my fifth grade teacher, Mrs. Wagner, and her rules, I don't want to arm teachers. Mrs. Wagner didn't tolerate nonsense and now to give teachers like her, a common union thug, a gun, is creating worse conditions. I'd take my chances with the campus intruder. Union thugs should not have guns.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 14, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> Don't you just hate when guns act on their own. Renegades..the lot of them.



Just the other day I caught my .38 trying to sneak out the back bedroom window.

I know it was up to no good, and boy was it loaded....


----------



## Ravi (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...


I'd neg you again, for lying this time, if I could.


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

boilermaker55 said:


> One of the best posts today,
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you.

It just hurts. No matter how often I see or hear about violence and death it never stops hurting my heart. When children are involved I ache deeply. I try not to let this world make me hard or callous. Not always easy but important to me personally.


----------



## tjvh (Dec 14, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> 
> Yes?
> 
> ...



Nope... No need to infringe upon Law abiding citizens Freedoms just because you get emotional over someone who *stole* another person's gun, and snapped.


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > Don't you just hate when guns act on their own. Renegades..the lot of them.
> ...





My beretta tried the same...I don't know what "triggers" such behavior on their parts.


----------



## MarcATL (Dec 14, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> > The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> ...


Who's saying this or even advocating it?



TakeAStepBack said:


> Ah, yes. The typical LOLberal knee jerk to having a shooting take place in victim zones.
> 
> Tell us more of how criminals who weild fire arms will obey the law? And how disarming the people will lead to less acts of gun violence by criminals who do not obey the law. Tell us all about it.


Talk about knee jerk when you knee jerk react in a frenzy about someone taking your gunz away.

Get a grip crazy!...seriously.



Truthmatters said:


> Gun worship from the right is doing this


Bingo!

America has a serious problem w/gun-culture.


----------



## MarcATL (Dec 14, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> 
> Yes?
> 
> ...


Behold this RW nutjob's knee-jerk reaction...


			
				NLT said:
			
		

> Hi, you have received -396 reputation points from NLT.
> Reputation was given for *this* post.
> 
> Comment:
> ...


*SMH*


----------



## boilermaker55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Anyone that has lost a loved one and especially a younger sibling or child to violence knows full well how this brings back the entire horrific trauma of the act.
The healing process for all of those that lost a child/loved one will take a long time.
My heart and prayers do go out to all involved.




Dreamy said:


> boilermaker55 said:
> 
> 
> > One of the best posts today,
> ...


----------



## OKTexas (Dec 14, 2012)

jillian said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> > A person who is willing to give up liberty for security, deserves neither liberty or security. End discussion.
> ...



Really, care to offer any proof of that statement.


----------



## WillowTree (Dec 14, 2012)

Someone buzzed him in. He was in full combat gear and armed and someone buzzed him in? that's unbelievable.


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > MarcATL said:
> ...





Bingo! Another partisan hack confirmed! Double-Bingo!  This wasn't about Marcal caring about the kids.  His agenda was to make it a rightwing issue in a negative way.


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 14, 2012)

RetiredGySgt said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > MarcATL said:
> ...



We have 270 million guns in circulation. Almost one for every American. That is pretty good access

God forbid, we do not want to restrict law abiding citizens from access to guns. Putting up with an occasional massacre is a small price to pay


----------



## Ravi (Dec 14, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> Someone buzzed him in. He was in full combat gear and armed and someone buzzed him in? that's unbelievable.



Inside help?


----------



## OKTexas (Dec 14, 2012)

LeftCoastVoter said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > OKTexas said:
> ...



Nope, another example of the lying left, prove where I've made a hypocritical statement. Come on, I'll wait.


----------



## Rat in the Hat (Dec 14, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> Someone buzzed him in. He was in full combat gear and armed and someone buzzed him in? that's unbelievable.



I wonder if it's time for a serious discussion on buzzer control laws?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 14, 2012)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Perhaps it will prompt a much-needed discussion about mental health in this country, as the issue isnt guns or their availability.
> 
> As with other medical issues, if detected and treated early, mental disorders can be managed in a manner as not to manifest in acts of violence.



Comrade, is failure to swear an oath of unquestioning loyalty to our Dear Leader, Barack Obama, a sign of mental illness, that should result in confinement?



> There is also the very difficult issue  in that Americans dont like to talk about it or even acknowledge it  of the basic nature of American culture; where we perceive violence as a legitimate means of conflict resolution.



But you find mental "hospitals" very useful, don't you? Particularly those which involve hard labor for the "patients?"



> However we address the issue, simply banning guns, or placing greater restrictions on guns will succeed in only diminishing our civil liberties and allowing the violence to continue.



If you don't ban the guns, then those who are so mentally ill that they oppose the glorious peoples party might resist!

We understand where you're coming from.


----------



## ShootSpeeders (Dec 14, 2012)

Every DAY nearly a HUNDRED americans are killed on the highways by speeders and drunk drivers and texting drivers but neither the liberals nor the media ever talk about that. Until they do everyone will know that all this talk about outlawing guns is just about taking away our liberties and strengthening govt.


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



We put up with you here and that's a big price to pay.  Hey marcal wipe rightwingers shit off your nose and get a clue.

Cliche...but still pertinent...Guns don't kill, people do.


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

Rat in the Hat said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Someone buzzed him in. He was in full combat gear and armed and someone buzzed him in? that's unbelievable.
> ...



ha Rat, how did you make me smile on this very sad thread? I know I should thump you one but you are too precious sometimes with your quirky posts.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Ravi, Synth....where are your condemnations of marcs thread? 

Could it be that you two are nothing more than hacks of opportunity? 

I suspect so


----------



## tjvh (Dec 14, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Yup... Just like the *more frequent* deadly car crashes we put up with as a tragic byproduct of moving people around in cars. Difference is driving isn't a Right... Guns *are*.


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

They identified the shooter. He allegedly killed both his parents. Father at home, mother at the school where she worked. 223-caliber rifle was one of the weapons used.

Name: Ryan Lanza


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



I believe you would. You had no sensible reason to do it the first time so why not do it again.....

Idiot


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

tjvh said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...





We should ground all aircraft since sometimes they crash.  Even into populated neighborhoods sometimes.  It's for the good of all who "MIGHT"  fly or are on the ground.


----------



## Plasmaball (Dec 14, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > Dreamy said:
> ...



i want to know how he got through the door with out setting off any alarms in peoples heads. 

Well he could of had a dufflebag with the stuff inside. Went into the bathroom and changed in there. 

Regardless a simple medal detector would have solved this. Well that and a separate room with another door that needs to be buzzed in order to get through.


----------



## tjvh (Dec 14, 2012)

Plasmaball said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Plasmaball said:
> ...



Oh, cut with the *Nanny State* crap... Do you really believe the answer is metal detectors on *every* doorway? Fucking ridiculous.


----------



## Plasmaball (Dec 14, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> Sigh, thread got moved.



go to the current events one. 

i mean its the same shit but what ya going to do?


----------



## jasonnfree (Dec 14, 2012)

We live in a society that's like a pressure cooker.  Some people go off the deep end.  More gun laws won't help.  All of the gun owners I've ever known are responsible.  Arm teachers? 
That'll work until a teacher goes in and starts shooting up the school.

 Invest in education and mental health,  meaning research and also counseling which of course costs money.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 14, 2012)

g5000 said:


> Let's arm the teachers...
> 
> And then one day, a kid gives the wrong answer one time too many, and     * BLAM!*
> 
> .



That's one way to get test scores up...


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 14, 2012)

Yup, you are still in post-election denial.

You idiots have lost your power in the party and won't get it back.

Your day is done.



GoneBezerk said:


> Idiot...it was too deep for your shallow mind.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Mother and father found dead...

This guy should have been in an institution.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 14, 2012)

A second suspect is now in custody.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Mother and father found dead...
> 
> This guy should have been in an institution.



The communists made putting anyone in an institution out of the question.


----------



## elvis (Dec 14, 2012)

threads merged.


----------



## Ravi (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Mother and father found dead...
> 
> This guy should have been in an institution.



Apparently he was once an honor student.


----------



## HUGGY (Dec 14, 2012)

elvis said:


> threads politicizing the tragedy were merged into this one.  One from the left and one from the right.  You all voiced your opinions on the mod action without consequence.  Next person who challenges mod action in this thread gets a vacation.



What are the magic words that would get ya to send me to Zihuatanejo???

Please...???


----------



## eots (Dec 14, 2012)

its most likely the results of psychiatric medications..seems these shooters are always hopped up on psych drugs...


----------



## NLT (Dec 14, 2012)

elvis said:


> threads politicizing the tragedy were merged into this one.  One from the left and one from the right.  You all voiced your opinions on the mod action without consequence.  Next person who challenges mod action in this thread *gets a vacation*.



 Cayman Islands please


----------



## elvis (Dec 14, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> elvis said:
> 
> 
> > threads politicizing the tragedy were merged into this one.  One from the left and one from the right.  You all voiced your opinions on the mod action without consequence.  Next person who challenges mod action in this thread gets a vacation.
> ...



More like magic papers.  With Benjamin Franklin on them


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 14, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> elvis said:
> 
> 
> > threads politicizing the tragedy were merged into this one.  One from the left and one from the right.  You all voiced your opinions on the mod action without consequence.  Next person who challenges mod action in this thread gets a vacation.
> ...



You have to crawl through a river of shit first


----------



## eots (Dec 14, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrPiAyptPWQ]Violence, Killing Sprees & Psych Meds Part 2: Columbine, Yates, Holmes, Colin Ross & Corrina Rachel - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## elvis (Dec 14, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > elvis said:
> ...



Good movie.


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 14, 2012)

tjvh said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



We have done things to make cars safer and reduce highway deaths (seatbelts, drunk driving laws, safer roads, safer cars)

Why can't we even talk about doing the same for guns?


----------



## jillian (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> 
> I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.



give 5 year olds guns?


----------



## jillian (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Mother and father found dead...
> 
> This guy should have been in an institution.



yes... he shouldn't have had a sharp pencil... 

so how did he get a gun?


----------



## Flopper (Dec 14, 2012)

This year there has been a bad year for student shooting with about 60 shootings.  I think we need to keep things in prospective.   There are nearly 100 million students in schools in the US.  Arming teachers would be insane.

School shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## NLT (Dec 14, 2012)

jillian said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Mother and father found dead...
> ...



maybe stole it from a family member?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 14, 2012)

jillian said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> ...



They have 5 year olds as administrators back East? 

Jillian again proves she's not the sharpest marshmallow in the bag...


----------



## chikenwing (Dec 14, 2012)

Sallow said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> > > Another school shooting. Time to arm the teachers?
> ...



No we have a tragedy do to MENTAL ILLNESS the gun was just a tool.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 14, 2012)

NLT said:


> maybe stole it from a family member?



Or from Michael Moore...


----------



## jillian (Dec 14, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



no shouldbecensored, it just proves i have a cold and didn't read carefully.

don't project your lack of intellect onto other people


----------



## eots (Dec 14, 2012)

> No we have a tragedy do to MENTAL ILLNESS the gun was just a tool.



its the drugs...not the guns


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 14, 2012)

Uncensored, grow the fuck up.  For once stop your nonsense.  This is a serious subject and the dead deserve the respect for this subject.  Stop your moronic idiocy.


----------



## jillian (Dec 14, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> NLT said:
> 
> 
> > maybe stole it from a family member?
> ...



^^^^^^

proof of your fifth grade education.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

I appreciate Obamas comments. He truly looked affected. I've never seen him appear that way before. Nice to see the human side for once. And he's right, we must find a way to curb the violence.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 14, 2012)

jillian said:


> no shouldbecensored, it just proves i have a cold and didn't read carefully.
> 
> don't project your lack of intellect onto other people



ROFL

Yeah, that'll dig you out of it, sparky....

Now get back to the couch, those Bon-Bon's aren't going to eat themselves....


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 14, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Uncensored, grow the fuck up.  For once stop your nonsense.  This is a serious subject and the dead deserve the respect for this subject.  Stop your moronic idiocy.



Thanks Jakematters - we all turn to you for decorum - hack.


----------



## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 14, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Uncensored, grow the fuck up.  For once stop your nonsense.  This is a serious subject and the dead deserve the respect for this subject.  Stop your moronic idiocy.


he cant, hes a hack who posts no substance.


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

jillian said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Mother and father found dead...
> ...



So if I run someone down because I'm an insane lunatic are you going to ask how did I get the car?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 14, 2012)

jillian said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > NLT said:
> ...



You're really quite stupid..

True story.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4138T2VRgxs]Michael Moore owns a gun, has security - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## jillian (Dec 14, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



as has already been pointed out, cars have other uses than killing

and how many children do you think someone could kill driving a car into the side of a school?


----------



## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 14, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...


i would ask if you had a license and if the car was yours. these are questions that deserve answers.


----------



## eots (Dec 14, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xIyoVBgc6k]Insights Into Batman Shooter James Holmes & Mental Illness By Psychiatrists Dr. Colin Ross - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 14, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...


as is his right protected by the constitution. do you have anything of intelligence to offer to this conversation? 

you hacks on the right hear gun control and automatically jump to gun elimination. the left has never proposed gun elimination nor a repeal of the 2nd amendment. but again you hear anything past your own annoying voice to understand this.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 14, 2012)

LeftCoastVoter said:


> i would ask if you had a license and if the car was yours. they question that deserve answers.



Can you show that the guns  Ryan Lanza used were legally purchased and registered to him?


----------



## elvis (Dec 14, 2012)

LeftCoastVoter said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...


No one on the left has ever proposed a ban of weapons of any kind?   Really?


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

jillian said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...





Plenty!  He could have stolen a Mack truck and driven it right through a ground level classroom.  He could have waited until they were playing in the schoolyard and mowed them down. 


Not the point anyway.  You need a permit to get a gun and license to drive a vehicle.   You think he still could not have killed 20 people like that?    Either can be stolen.


Where there is a will, there is a way.  Guns have other uses.  Did the gun kill or the lunatic?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 14, 2012)

LeftCoastVoter said:


> as is his right protected by the constitution. do you have anything of intelligence to offer to this conversation?



Sigh, you leftist fucktards are too much. 

Yes, Moore has the legal right to a gun, even as he uses demagoguery in an attempt to revoke the rights of others.

Mine was just a quip to demonstrate the hypocrisy of the anti-liberty left; but of course Jillian lacked the intellect to grasp it, as per usual.



> you hacks on the right hear gun control and automatically jump to gun elimination. the left has never proposed gun elimination nor a repeal of the 2nd amendment. but again you hear anything past your own annoying voice to understand this.



Yawn....

I'll clue you in on something that you will NEVER grasp: the most effective means to combat violence is personal responsibility - the very integrity that you of the left have worked so hard to purge from society.


----------



## Wry Catcher (Dec 14, 2012)

Sure are a lot of red herrings being posted on this message board today.  The gun nuts aren't effected by the deaths of children, the grief of parents, grandparents, siblings; the impact on first responders, hospital staff, journalists and normal people who have empthy watching this horrific event unfold on TV.

For them, it is all about defending the Second Amendment and their right to own a gun.  I guess its easy when one has no empathy, care more for the unfetterd right of anyone to obtain a gun then to dwell on what that means.


----------



## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 14, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> LeftCoastVoter said:
> 
> 
> > as is his right protected by the constitution. do you have anything of intelligence to offer to this conversation?
> ...


ahh the name calling of the right. typical response. 

the left doesnt promote gun elimination, it promotes sensible gun regulations. your tin foil hat might be on a bit tight today. 

if personal responsibility were the most effective means then we wouldnt need laws governing us, not police officers to patrol the streets.


----------



## elvis (Dec 14, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> Sure are a lot of red herrings being posted on this message board today.  The gun nuts aren't effected by the deaths of children, the grief of parents, grandparents, siblings; the impact on first responders, hospital staff, journalists and normal people who have empthy watching this horrific event unfold on TV.
> 
> For them, it is all about defending the Second Amendment and their right to own a gun.  I guess its easy when one has no empathy, care more for the unfetterd right of anyone to obtain a gun then to dwell on what that means.



Fuck off, asswipe.


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> Sure are a lot of red herrings being posted on this message board today.  The gun nuts aren't effected by the deaths of children, the grief of parents, grandparents, siblings; the impact on first responders, hospital staff, journalists and normal people who have empthy watching this horrific event unfold on TV.
> 
> For them, it is all about defending the Second Amendment and their right to own a gun.  I guess its easy when one has no empathy, care more for the unfetterd right of anyone to obtain a gun then to dwell on what that means.



You keep being politically correct and we'll all give you kudos and maybe a prize if you're good..  The rest want to discuss the issue and that hardly makes people callous because you don't want to and can't mount a decent counter argument.

What the fuck do you know about how people feel?  You're here so you're just as callous if that's what you think some are.  Go cry in front of your television if you can't stand to see people post.  You think that by brow-beating people vis a vis political correctness that you're above everyone here?  That's what you're implying if not outrightly saying.

You're so "effected" that it's what...your 3rd or 4th visit to this thread alone.  Talk about hypocrisy.


----------



## jillian (Dec 14, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



only in rightwingnuthackworld


----------



## hazlnut (Dec 14, 2012)

LeftCoastVoter said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > LeftCoastVoter said:
> ...



Thank you.

You express the anger and sadness all us normal people are feeling today much bette than I could have.

The notion from the fringe right on this board seems to be, what can we do?  Nothing.

Well, that's not good enough.


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

jillian said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



Come on I thought you stopped with that nonsense.  You're better than that.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Dec 14, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> Sure are a lot of red herrings being posted on this message board today.  The gun nuts aren't effected by the deaths of children, the grief of parents, grandparents, siblings; the impact on first responders, hospital staff, journalists and normal people who have empthy watching this horrific event unfold on TV.
> 
> For them, it is all about defending the Second Amendment and their right to own a gun.  I guess its easy when one has no empathy, care more for the unfetterd right of anyone to obtain a gun then to dwell on what that means.



Feel free to throw yourself between the shooter and his target next time

Oh, and go fuck yourself.


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > Sure are a lot of red herrings being posted on this message board today.  The gun nuts aren't effected by the deaths of children, the grief of parents, grandparents, siblings; the impact on first responders, hospital staff, journalists and normal people who have empthy watching this horrific event unfold on TV.
> ...




Now watch him twist this into some kind of terrible thing that you said.


----------



## RosieS (Dec 14, 2012)

Even tho' I had a concealed carry permit I wouldn't want to have a gun in my classroom; not the inner city nor the suburban ones. Guns are valuable and attractive objects to young criminals. I would feel unsafe having it known I was carrying.

With a tazer I would be concerned about being disarmed and having it used against me. School security can't be everywhere at once. Just me against 3 or 4 young men and I would have been done for.

I felt that way then and have had nothing occur to change how I feel since.

Regards from Rosie


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> Sure are a lot of red herrings being posted on this message board today.  The gun nuts aren't effected by the deaths of children, the grief of parents, grandparents, siblings; the impact on first responders, hospital staff, journalists and normal people who have empthy watching this horrific event unfold on TV.
> 
> For them, it is all about defending the Second Amendment and their right to own a gun.  I guess its easy when one has no empathy, care more for the unfetterd right of anyone to obtain a gun then to dwell on what that means.



I think you're reading the thread with a closed mind. Their are points to be made for both cases and many in this thread haven't taken sides but rather are just sharing.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 14, 2012)

Time for the "tool" nonsense to stop.  The differences between a car, a shovel, and an automatic weapon is a difference of kind not degree.  The exponential lethality of an automatic weapon or a Glock 17 clearly outweighs that of a car or shovel.

2nd Amendment rights are not absolute.  Common sense needs to come into play here.


----------



## Staidhup (Dec 14, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> Sure are a lot of red herrings being posted on this message board today.  The gun nuts aren't effected by the deaths of children, the grief of parents, grandparents, siblings; the impact on first responders, hospital staff, journalists and normal people who have empthy watching this horrific event unfold on TV.
> 
> For them, it is all about defending the Second Amendment and their right to own a gun.  I guess its easy when one has no empathy, care more for the unfetterd right of anyone to obtain a gun then to dwell on what that means.



Those law abiding citizens you call gun nuts have no empathy? The grief all feel for the families and the loss of their loved ones is paramount in their minds. Time to get off your throne and cease from passing judgment. You should be ashamed of yourself.


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > Sure are a lot of red herrings being posted on this message board today.  The gun nuts aren't effected by the deaths of children, the grief of parents, grandparents, siblings; the impact on first responders, hospital staff, journalists and normal people who have empthy watching this horrific event unfold on TV.
> ...




Keep in mind, some people here think they have to "win" something when they post.


----------



## jillian (Dec 14, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



people get the responses they earn.

he earned that one. if you have an issue about it, perhaps you should take it up with shouldbecensored.


----------



## Sarah G (Dec 14, 2012)

Definately not.  What if the teacher is crazy?

We have to keep guns out of the hands of as many crazy people as possible AND secure the schools better.  I think it's all we can do.


----------



## Wry Catcher (Dec 14, 2012)

elvis said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > Sure are a lot of red herrings being posted on this message board today.  The gun nuts aren't effected by the deaths of children, the grief of parents, grandparents, siblings; the impact on first responders, hospital staff, journalists and normal people who have empthy watching this horrific event unfold on TV.
> ...



A cowardly little punk, threatened by debate on gun violence and my response, can only respond with vulgarity.  How pitiful.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

Nova78 said:


> Time to arm the teachers ?
> 
> Boy, what a well thought out statement....



Why not? What is wrong with you? Do you want more mass shootings of unarmed children at gun free zones?


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

jillian said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



Whatever...you posted it not me.


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

Sarah G said:


> Definately not.  What if the teacher is crazy?
> 
> We have to keep guns out of the hands of as many crazy people as possible AND secure the schools better.  I think it's all we can do.



Exactly.  You don't go around banning things because a few use them irresponsibly.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 14, 2012)

Repeated elsewhere: "The [crazee]right gets outraged at 4 deaths by terrorists in Benghazzi, but when innocents are shot and killed in shopping malls and schools around America they get outraged by anyone who mentions gun control."

2nd Amendment is not absolute.



bigrebnc1775 said:


> Nova78 said:
> 
> 
> > Time to arm the teachers ?
> ...


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> Sure are a lot of red herrings being posted on this message board today.  The gun nuts aren't effected by the deaths of children, the grief of parents, grandparents, siblings; the impact on first responders, hospital staff, journalists and normal people who have empthy watching this horrific event unfold on TV.
> 
> For them, it is all about defending the Second Amendment and their right to own a gun.  I guess its easy when one has no empathy, care more for the unfetterd right of anyone to obtain a gun then to dwell on what that means.



So we have another shooting at a gun free zone. when will your support  end for these kind of places?


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

What do you guys think of some sort of mental stability test or inquiry prior to handgun purchases? 

I'm not advocating it but I'm curious what you gun owners think.


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> What do you guys think of some sort of mental stability test or inquiry prior to handgun purchases?
> 
> I'm not advocating it but I'm curious what you gun owners think.



I was going to raise the same question what do they propose?

Better yet, in a perfect world let's say there are no guns yet this kook still wants to mass murder...how you going to stop him?

See guns are the scapegoat here for the anti-gun contingent.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> What do you guys think of some sort of mental stability test or inquiry prior to handgun purchases?
> 
> I'm not advocating it but I'm curious what you gun owners think.



Sorry I would not want to place my rights in the hand of a anti gun person who has a degree.


----------



## jillian (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> What do you guys think of some sort of mental stability test or inquiry prior to handgun purchases?
> 
> I'm not advocating it but I'm curious what you gun owners think.



i don't know about a test... but something that doesn't put guns into the hands of a nutter?

right now i think people are just trying to figure out how to prevent things like this. it may well be that they can't be prevented.

but if it's not discussed, it certainly won't be.


----------



## candycorn (Dec 14, 2012)

Plasmaball said:


> Sigh the simple solution is you lock all doors, and people need to be buzzed in. That will make it harder, but then you need a simple medal detector once inside. Mostly just for the adults coming in.
> 
> This would take funding, so not sure if people would be ok with it.
> 
> The easy fix to this is that there is no easy fix to this.



Yeah..funding.  Exactly what the right wing doesn't want--to fund anything.  Maybe the school can have bake sales.  Just better have them indoors I guess.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > What do you guys think of some sort of mental stability test or inquiry prior to handgun purchases?
> ...



I'm sure the test could be formed by a bipartisan group comprised of people from all respective areas. Although the test would be somewhat superficial it could weed out a few potential murders. 

Just a thought.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Right non partisan. NO sale
I'll just remain armed everywhere I go, I suggest that all do the same.


----------



## candycorn (Dec 14, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > beretta304 said:
> ...



Again, tell me where he is inaccurate.  I'm supposing you can't since you're not doing it.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

candycorn said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > Sigh the simple solution is you lock all doors, and people need to be buzzed in. That will make it harder, but then you need a simple medal detector once inside. Mostly just for the adults coming in.
> ...



Most school funding issues are placed on local ballots. I would vote for an increase in sales taxes where the funds were directed for school security. Or property taxes in my area.


----------



## jillian (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



notice that his problem was that the person would have a degree.


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 14, 2012)

Yes, arm the teachers who are willing to undergo special training in order to keep a gun in the classroom.  Don't arm those who object to the concept.   After he had seen a couple of these tragedies around the country,  a teacher friend of mine, now retired, taught shop.  He and his assistant built a concealed safe into the wall and had a couple of handguns stashed there, unbeknown to the administration or anybody else of course.  But as he saw it, he was ready.  Nobody was going to harm him or any kids he was responsible for if he could help it.


----------



## Sallow (Dec 14, 2012)

OKTexas said:


> A person who is willing to give up liberty for security, deserves neither liberty or security. End discussion.



The right lost that argument a long time ago, when they let Bush create "enemy combatants", gitmo and unwarranted electronic snooping.

And..no.

The 2nd amendment doesn't trump my right to a life.

Selling guns to crazies..is insane.

And allowing every idiot who thinks they are part of SWAT to walk the street, armed.

There's a case to be made for home and business defense.

There is none for turning all of America back into the Wild West.


----------



## candycorn (Dec 14, 2012)

Plasmaball said:


> Regardless of how everyone feels, this was 14 or so kindergarden kids, this changes the game for people.



No it doesn't.

Oakland school shooting suspect charged with 7 murders | abc7.com

Most people didn't even know it happened in Oakland earlier this year.  

This changes nothing.  Gun nuts will still say, get this, that if the entire citizenry were packing heat, there would be fewer gun deaths.  As if saying that if we flooded the earth, we'd have more people who know how to swim.  

Add up any industrialized group of countries in Europe where they have gun laws to equal our population.  Compare gun deaths.  Why are we so far ahead?  It isn't because they are armed to the teeth and we're not.


----------



## bodecea (Dec 14, 2012)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > Sure are a lot of red herrings being posted on this message board today.  The gun nuts aren't effected by the deaths of children, the grief of parents, grandparents, siblings; the impact on first responders, hospital staff, journalists and normal people who have empthy watching this horrific event unfold on TV.
> ...



Looking at the reports, sounds like 8 adults did just that, Frank.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

jillian said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Are you saying someone would evaluate the mental state of a person who wasn't  psychiatrist?


----------



## candycorn (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Plasmaball said:
> ...



Good for you.

The moment the initiative was brought up, the first thing out of most people who think like you would be, "If we didn't have teachers unions...."  You know it too.


----------



## Sallow (Dec 14, 2012)

bodecea said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...



Wonder if they will make it into the old boy's Avatar.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

candycorn said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



Two different issues.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Some states like mine require that you put your car through a safety inspection prior to getting it tagged.  After today I am near certain we need something like this for gun purchases. 

I don't and will never believe in a gun ban but gun control done right could save your childs life.

And I still believe a qualified teacher with a gun locked in a safe is a wise thing to do. Metal detectors would not stop someone intent on mass murder/suicide.

We have to test regularly to drive but not to own a weapon....


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Some states like mine require that you put your car through a safety inspection prior to getting it tagged.  After today I am near certain we need something like this for gun purchases.
> 
> I don't and will never believe in a gun ban but gun control done right could save your childs life.
> 
> ...




No sale.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 14, 2012)

Sold, your vote wont be enough, bigreb.



bigrebnc1775 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Some states like mine require that you put your car through a safety inspection prior to getting it tagged.  After today I am near certain we need something like this for gun purchases.
> ...


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Some states like mine require that you put your car through a safety inspection prior to getting it tagged.  After today I am near certain we need something like this for gun purchases.
> ...



Fair enough but why? Wouldn't you prefer the mentally unstable didn't have weapons?


----------



## Ravi (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Some states like mine require that you put your car through a safety inspection prior to getting it tagged.  After today I am near certain we need something like this for gun purchases.
> 
> I don't and will never believe in a gun ban but gun control done right could save your childs life.
> 
> ...


I'm amazed.


----------



## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 14, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Yes, arm the teachers who are willing to undergo special training in order to keep a gun in the classroom.  Don't arm those who object to the concept.   After he had seen a couple of these tragedies around the country,  a teacher friend of mine, now retired, taught shop.  He and his assistant built a concealed safe into the wall and had a couple of handguns stashed there, unbeknown to the administration or anybody else of course.  But as he saw it, he was ready.  Nobody was going to harm him or any kids he was responsible for if he could help it.


forcing someone to take a special class in order to carry a firearm would be a violation of the right to bear arms. 

one would figure that the right would vehemently oppose any regulation of this type. damn sensible gun controls.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



I refuse to allow my rights to be in the hand of an overly anti gun zealot


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 14, 2012)

You have no right to refuse sensible gun control that does not violate the 2nd Amendment.

Your right to bear arms is not absolute.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



What if the actual test were approved by the NRA?


----------



## candycorn (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Yeah...but conservatives have a way of making it all about funding anytime new expenditures come up.  Hurricane Sandy relief is being held up....Katrina relief was bandied about for a while too.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Who would be administering the test?


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

After today I believe that cooler heads may prevail and sensible measures that don't violate the second amendment can be achieved. 

If the slaughter of a bunch of 8 year olds can't focus us nothing will.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> You have no right to refuse sensible gun control that does not violate the 2nd Amendment.
> 
> Your right to bear arms is not absolute.


----------



## candycorn (Dec 14, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> You have no right to refuse sensible gun control that does not violate the 2nd Amendment.
> 
> Your right to bear arms is not absolute.



Says who?

This is just it; we're living under a 226 year old business plan.  The guys who wrote the plan were worried about the Crown forcing colonists to house soldiers and that concern elevated it's way up unto an amendment to the national constitution.  

If you were starting from scratch in 2012, that wouldn't even make the top 500 issues you'd want to cover.  

But somehow the 2nd amendment is not viewed in the tense on which it was written; it is in fact seen as absolute by the less enlightened.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Dunno. It is just an idea. I'll leave the important things up to those much smarter than me. But I am convinced we can find common ground.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> You have no right to refuse sensible gun control that does not violate the 2nd Amendment.
> 
> Your right to bear arms is not absolute.


----------



## candycorn (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> After today I believe that cooler heads may prevail and sensible measures that don't violate the second amendment can be achieved.
> 
> If the slaughter of a bunch of 8 year olds can't focus us nothing will.



Nothing will; sad to say.

We'll appoint a commission, say a prayer and move on.  It's the GOP way.  Also sad to say.


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

Most drugs are illegal and there are many laws against buying them, transporting them, selling them and using them. The calls for more gun laws and more restrictions truly underwhelms me personally but never more so than right after a horrible tragedy.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

candycorn said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > After today I believe that cooler heads may prevail and sensible measures that don't violate the second amendment can be achieved.
> ...



Its the political way. Party is irrelevant


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

candycorn said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > You have no right to refuse sensible gun control that does not violate the 2nd Amendment.
> ...



What does shall not be infringe mean?


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> Most drugs are illegal and there are many laws against buying them, transporting them, selling them and using them. The calls for more gun laws and more restrictions truly underwhelms me personally but never more so than right after a horrible tragedy.



Good point. Outlawing drugs hasn't helped anything except an increase in crime.


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

candycorn said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > After today I believe that cooler heads may prevail and sensible measures that don't violate the second amendment can be achieved.
> ...


 
When someone can figure out how to make the world 100% safe let me know. It can't be done. Bad and disturbed people do bad things using many different tools and means. A mother in SC used a car and a lake to kill her kids. How can we prevent bad things like that happening? You can't.


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 14, 2012)

LeftCoastVoter said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, arm the teachers who are willing to undergo special training in order to keep a gun in the classroom.  Don't arm those who object to the concept.   After he had seen a couple of these tragedies around the country,  a teacher friend of mine, now retired, taught shop.  He and his assistant built a concealed safe into the wall and had a couple of handguns stashed there, unbeknown to the administration or anybody else of course.  But as he saw it, he was ready.  Nobody was going to harm him or any kids he was responsible for if he could help it.
> ...



Right now, except for properly authorized law enforcement personnel,  firearms are not allowed inside any school (or bar or courthouse or certain other venues) and that is not any kind of violation of the Second Amendment.  I am required to take a special class in order to legally carry a concealed weapon in my state.  If you go into the military you are required to take a lot of training in the proper use and maintenance of weapons assigned to you.  Every law enforcement officer is required to take special trraining in proficiency and proper use of a weapon.

Surely it is not a violation of Second Amendment spirit or principle to rrequire a teacher who could be called on to use a weapon to protect the children to have the proper training to do that competently.


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 14, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



You have tried that in court......it doesn't work


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

candycorn said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



*Here's his full quote:*


_"Relax

You have won. Nobody is going to take your guns. This is America

You are free to have the weapon of your choice to shoot Congresswomen, Movie Theaters, Malls at Christmas and Kindergarten classrooms"_

*To which I raised the question since he addressed it to "America" which happens to include law abiding gun owners, as well as the fact that rightwinger has a penchant for categorizing people :*

_"You want to back him up and say that's why people buy guns and it's a reason to stop law abiding people from owning one?"
_

*I say:*

_He's being flippant and implying that's the only reason people would want to hang onto their guns...to do and carry out acts like the aforementioned. _ 

*If you agree that's a  true and accurate statement indicative of law abiding gun owners and if you still don't get it then:*


I can't help you Madame.


----------



## Wry Catcher (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> What do you guys think of some sort of mental stability test or inquiry prior to handgun purchases?
> 
> I'm not advocating it but I'm curious what you gun owners think.



Every officer, deputy, agent in every agency in our country should, and very likely has had, a psyhological evaluation - both written tests and at least one oral interview - prior to getting an offer of emplolyment wherer s/he will be armed.  They also have had an extensive background investigation.


----------



## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 14, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...


by definition the right to "bear" arms can be simplified as the right to carry arms. and this right shall not be "infringed" upon, or Act so as to limit or undermine. while the constitution does not specifically define what "arms" are, it can assumed they mean fire arms. but the constitution does not specify anything about the purchase or procurement of said arms, this is left open for interpretation. why is selling guns on the street illegal? why do you need a permit to be a fire arms dealer? why am i unable to purchase automatic weapons? 

if the true and exact definition of the 2nd amendment is followed then citizens would be allowed to carry concealed weapons without regulations. however time and time again, the supreme court has ruled that rights are not absolute. the right to free speech doesnt extend to yelling fire in a crowded room. the right to religion does not allow for polygamy or child marriage,  fefusing to give up your house if your local/ state/ county government wants to take through the process of eminent domain. (nobody shall be deprived of life, liberty or PROPERTY).

these are universally agreed up exceptions to the rights guaranteed by the constitution. however anytime anyone speak up regarding the 2nd amendment, we are told the its wording must be take literally and there are no exceptions to this nor are we able to have a sensible conversation about it.


----------



## longknife (Dec 14, 2012)

Is anyone surprised at how quickly this tragedy is politicized *BY BOTH SIDES*?

Banning guns or buying more guns isn't going to do a thing to stop maniacs like this from going on rampages. The only defense is to have someone trained with arms to be able to put someone like this down BEFORE they can further such a rampage.

We have an armed police force in the schools here in Clark County. Would one of them been able to put a stop to this?


----------



## Indofred (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.



More guns?
Yep, that'll solve the problem of having way too many guns around.


----------



## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 14, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> LeftCoastVoter said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...


as some people have expressed, the things you list can be construed as a violation of the 2nd amendment. 

i am actually in favor of sensible gun control (notice not gun elimination for you righties) these would include.

background checks for both public and private sales of all fire arms.
passage of a basic firearm safety class prior to the purchase of your first weapon. along with subsequent renewal of that license every (3-5 years) or so. 
bans large capacity magazine (above 11 rounds)
bans on military style assault weapons (Federal Assault Weapons Ban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
ballistic testing of all manufactured weapons to be used in a centralized criminal data bases (like codis)

but then again no one from the right is even willing to have an adult conversation about this. the argument always comes back to simply because i have the right to.


----------



## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 14, 2012)

longknife said:


> Is anyone surprised at how quickly this tragedy is politicized *BY BOTH SIDES*?
> 
> Banning guns or buying more guns isn't going to do a thing to stop maniacs like this from going on rampages. The only defense is to have someone trained with arms to be able to put someone like this down BEFORE they can further such a rampage.
> 
> We have an armed police force in the schools here in Clark County. Would one of them been able to put a stop to this?


yeah putting an armed police force in all schools is a great idea, lets surround our kids with more guns not less. also, whos gonna pay for that?


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Indofred said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.
> ...



Guns arent the problem. Improper use is. That is the problem to be discussed.


----------



## Indofred (Dec 14, 2012)

I believe the right to bear arms being in the constitution just shows the stupidity of those who wrote it.


----------



## Indofred (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



No guns = no improper use.


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

Indofred said:


> I believe the right to bear arms being in the constitution just shows the stupidity of those who wrote it.


 
Are you an American living in Indonesia?

How so is my question to you?


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 14, 2012)

Indofred said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...


So what is your plan for gathering up every one of the hundreds of thousands of firearms in the United States and insuring that none ever come in after that?


----------



## Truthmatters (Dec 14, 2012)

Elementary school massacre: 27 killed, including 20 kids, at Connecticut school - U.S. News


ADAM LANZA not his brother Ryan did this crime


----------



## Trajan (Dec 14, 2012)

Sallow said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> > > Another school shooting. Time to arm the teachers?
> ...




critical think much? no don't answer that, your post speaks for itself......what a waste of cyber ink.


----------



## Trajan (Dec 14, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > What do you guys think of some sort of mental stability test or inquiry prior to handgun purchases?
> ...



well then, how did you get thru? or don't they perform checks on Mall Cops


----------



## elvis (Dec 14, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> elvis said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...


There's nothing to debate.  You're a waste of cum and the poster child for abortion.  End of story.


----------



## beretta304 (Dec 14, 2012)

longknife said:


> Is anyone surprised at how quickly this tragedy is politicized *BY BOTH SIDES*?
> 
> Banning guns or buying more guns isn't going to do a thing to stop maniacs like this from going on rampages. The only defense is to have someone trained with arms to be able to put someone like this down BEFORE they can further such a rampage.
> 
> We have an armed police force in the schools here in Clark County. Would one of them been able to put a stop to this?



Is it really both sides?  Why would the right even raise it first?  Which likely means just who do you think brought "gun control" into the mix first?  Why would gun owners raise it?  No reason to. 



So I'd think about who made this a political debate and why?


As to the rest, I mostly agree although I'm not sure what you're getting at regarding Clark County other than to say, who knows?


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

We are reeping the ill benefits of *"SOCIAL ENGINEERING" *now, so get used to it people...

I have solutions, but who am I right ? It's yet another sad sad day in America, but the solutions will get lost in the idiocy that will come next..


----------



## Politico (Dec 14, 2012)

I don't want most of them teaching kids. I certainly don't want them armed.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

Politico said:


> I don't want most of them teaching kids. I certainly don't want them armed.


Isn't it ashamed that you have to say this about who we let teach our children ?


----------



## NoNukes (Dec 14, 2012)

*Another school shooting....time to arm the teachers?*

This is the country that you want to live in? Amazing.


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 14, 2012)

NoNukes said:


> *Another school shooting....time to arm the teachers?*
> 
> This is the country that you want to live in? Amazing.


Fuck off.  Nobody here misses you.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

NoNukes said:


> *Another school shooting....time to arm the teachers?*
> 
> This is the country that you want to live in? Amazing.


May be the country we now have to live in....Amazing!


----------



## NoNukes (Dec 14, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > *Another school shooting....time to arm the teachers?*
> ...



Good. My children are safe when they go to school.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

Allowing idiots to run this nation or influence this nation, has come back to haunt us in the worst way's imaginable now...And the beat goes on, and the beat goes on..


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 14, 2012)

NoNukes said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > NoNukes said:
> ...


Too bad they aren't when they come home.


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> Sure are a lot of red herrings being posted on this message board today. The gun nuts aren't effected by the deaths of children, the grief of parents, grandparents, siblings; the impact on first responders, hospital staff, journalists and normal people who have empthy watching this horrific event unfold on TV.
> 
> For them, it is all about defending the Second Amendment and their right to own a gun. I guess its easy when one has no empathy, care more for the unfetterd right of anyone to obtain a gun then to dwell on what that means.


 
GFY. I can multi-task idiot which means I can support our freedoms and love our children and be sickened by a tragedy committed by a disturbed angry person intent on harming others.

You don't know any of us or what is in our hearts or heads and it shows by your ignorant post above. Did I say GFY? Just in case I didn't. GFY.


----------



## Wry Catcher (Dec 14, 2012)

OKTexas said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



And yet plastic bags are now produced with warning labels and some with holes to prevent such accidents; child car workers are carefully screened to protect children and yet the NRA and gun nuts push for less and less restrictions and controls.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > Sure are a lot of red herrings being posted on this message board today. The gun nuts aren't effected by the deaths of children, the grief of parents, grandparents, siblings; the impact on first responders, hospital staff, journalists and normal people who have empthy watching this horrific event unfold on TV.
> ...



I think almost all the posters today are stunned and saddened by this horrible event. And if they are like me talking about it is a way to cope with such a terrible event. 

I personally am so disturbed that I have wasted my whole day just trying to comprehend what could drive ANY human to indescriminantly kill small children. Its so hard to digest that posting about it has helped. I got trolled pretty hard in the beginning but now that that has passed I feel much better. Both my daughters and exwife have shed tears today and I just don't even know what to say so I just hugged them. And that was hard to do with my ex


----------



## Ravi (Dec 14, 2012)

longknife said:


> Is anyone surprised at how quickly this tragedy is politicized *BY BOTH SIDES*?
> 
> Banning guns or buying more guns isn't going to do a thing to stop maniacs like this from going on rampages. The only defense is to have someone trained with arms to be able to put someone like this down BEFORE they can further such a rampage.
> 
> We have an armed police force in the schools here in Clark County. Would one of them been able to put a stop to this?


Probably just in the high schools, though, because the schools fear the students.


----------



## SuMar (Dec 14, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> when will you people stop worshipping guns?



Worshiping guns? Really? Someone needs to bitch slap you..


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

The guns belonged to the shooters mother.


----------



## candycorn (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Democrats dont bring it up because of the gun lobby.  Otherwise this would have happened after the McDonalds massacre in 1984.



> "The McDonald's massacre"
> 
> Classification: Mass murderer
> Characteristics: Revenge
> ...



That wasnt the time to odiscuss gun control and how an Uzi was spawned on our streets.  Is today that day?


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Blame the gun instead of the ill fated social engineering that has taken place in this nation eh ? Figures.... Will people ever wake up ? I guess you missed it about the chinnese guy that stabbed all the children today in China...Duh !


----------



## candycorn (Dec 14, 2012)

NoNukes said:


> *Another school shooting....time to arm the teachers?*
> 
> This is the country that you want to live in? Amazing.





Next month when another mass shooting happens, it will be not only arm the teachers but a discussion about the armaments.  Obviously if the brain damaged psychopath fresh from the gun show has 5,000 rounds, the teacher with a mere 50 rounds is inadequately armed.

Kevelar school uniforms is next after that.


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 14, 2012)

No guns in China...but the same attitude towards children prevails there.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

I just looked up that stabbing in China today. 22 small children....WTF


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

candycorn said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...


You mentioned democrats in this post, well I will ask this next since you did that - Are these the spawns of liberalism, or do they come from a democrat family or society now (these killers) ?

What would be their affiliation's in this sense ? If there is a huge affiliation, what does it mean ? Has the democrats/liberals failed our society ? The same question if affiliated with conservatives.........


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

candycorn said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > *Another school shooting....time to arm the teachers?*
> ...



Why do you insist on being so irrational? The shooter could have had a million bullets but it still would have only taken one to stop him.


----------



## candycorn (Dec 14, 2012)

candycorn said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...


Here is a pic of an 11 y/o kid gunned down 28 years ago by someone armed with an Uzi.


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## koshergrl (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> I just looked up that stabbing in China today. 22 small children....WTF


 
When you have a society that insists loudly and adamantly that the youngest/oldest and most vulnerable aren't REALLY people...

are you surprised? Depravity is celebrated...children are seen as a plague...

Yet people are amazed when this happens.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

candycorn said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



That is as distastefull as you can be....

Fuck off


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## koshergrl (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...


 
Candycorn doesn't give a shit. Children are commodities when it comes to pushing an agenda; and expendable.


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## mjollnir (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



No.  That's reality.

EVERYONE needs to know what that looks like.

Dismissing it as 'distasteful' is to minimize the act itself.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

mjollnir said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



The children aren't even all in the morgue yet. That photo is not appropriate.


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## mjollnir (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> mjollnir said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Reality is always appropriate, and that picture depicts nothing that happened today.

That's what it looks like when children are murdered.  That the remains of the deceased are not in the morgue yet is meaningless.

If more people actually understood that, we'd have a lot more people working together to solve the problems that lead up to these shootings.

Otherwise this will just fade in the media noise, just like Virginia Tech did, just like Aurora, CO, did, etc....


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

candycorn said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > *Another school shooting....time to arm the teachers?*
> ...


Right now extreme measures such as being spoken of (training and arming the teachers), well maybe not, but to have security gaurds in school may have to be looked at while in defense mode, only to ease up such measures on down the line when all is under control again or back to normal in America.. Control not meaning government control or gun control, but more instead about finding solutions to a huge problem that is out of control in this nation, and that is with peoples thinking, and why they are thinking in these ways now?

Fix that, and you could near about leave a gun laying right out on the coffee table un-loaded of course, and the child or the wife whom finds it would say to you, ummmmm dad or honey you better put that up cause you forgot it or here you go dad (your gun), without any incidents what so ever to report, and this like it used to be once upon a time in America, which was to be found in most families back in the day. Hey that sounds extreme in and of itself doesn't it? But hey we had it like that once upon a time in America as I recall, and this for the most part we did. WHAT HAPPENED?


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## MikeK (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> So far one SMALL CHILD is deceased.
> 
> It is past the time to give our educators the ability to defend our children!


Do you know what it would take to impart that ability to those teachers who are willing and able to adapt to it?  And how many teachers do you think are capable of not only adapting to being armed while in class and effectively engaging an armed adversary -- or participating in a gunfight?  My guess is extremely few.  

Also, I attended Catholic schools where what you've suggested is out of the question.


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

candycorn said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...


What percentages was this happening 28 years ago ? Now post what happend to the killer 28 years ago, did he get the electric chair or did he get a slap on the wrist by the liberals because he was being a little bit bad for them ?


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

MikeK said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > So far one SMALL CHILD is deceased.
> ...


Metal detectors for all schools and armed gaurds hired (job creation)..


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

mjollnir said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > mjollnir said:
> ...


Judicial Hangings are appropriate also, so lets get busy again in America.. Bring back the hanging judges and gallows, then lets show what happens when you committ heinous crimes in America.. All weak knee's stand aside and let real men work again..


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## MikeK (Dec 14, 2012)

Sallow said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > I'm surprised cons would trust teachers with guns since they believe all teacher are liberals.
> ...


But how does one know who is strapped and who isn't?  Handguns are readily concealable on the person or in backpacks and long guns can be carried in guitar cases or cardboard boxes.


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...


We know the underlying culprits, but we are not allowed to identify them or go after them, and it is not the gun..


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## koshergrl (Dec 14, 2012)

MikeK said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


 
See this is the difference between the right and the left.

The left can't comprehend *allowing* the other side to arm themselves or protect themselves. Everything they are is geared towards preventing other people from defending themselves against tyranny and attack. Because they ache to exert ever increasing control and suppression over their ideological opposition.

The right wants everyone armed, so they can protect themselves. We don't care who you are. We want you to be able to protect yourself from whatever nut might want to hurt you.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



And more to the point, the discussion should be about allowing teachers to use firearms to protect the children in their custody.


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...


Everyone who qualifies and has a background check, credit check, stable job, no priors, deputized constible afterwards, and some good training in which could bring about great results for all is the answer.


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...


A good security gaurd service would be sufficient enough I think...


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

The fact that we know these things exist in our society, and we have let *"money"* dictate our level of security, and therefore our lax in security, especially where mass gatherings of our children are, is pretty darned dispicable of us as a nation when we think about it. I put nothing pass what we will and won't do anymore in this nation. It's a real eye opener isn't it ?


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



I suspect that in most situations an identifiable guard would be the first victim.


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...


Thought about that one today also, where as he or she would be plain clothes of course... Glad you made me bring that up..


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## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> 
> I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.



I absolutely agree with you!  The teachers and administration should be forced to take a firearms class to become proficient with firearms...for just such occassions.  This mentality of shooting up the middle class has got to stop!!!!!  These crazies go into shopping malls, movie theaters, universities, public schools in very nice suburban neighborhoods and start opening fire  in the general public...that's beyond ludicrouis...it's a real problem for the middle class and the upper class...as it seems these are the neighborhoods that are targeted!  It's no longer just the drug punks shooting each other in the ghetto...no...it's crazies shooting the sacrificial lambs...our kindergartners!

What kind of a world do we live in?  Have we gotten that fucked up...are we that unhappy?  Or are these people just mental cases run rampant?  If they're just mental cases...they're nothing but suicide bombers...they're terrorists!

In the early seventies...the state mental hospitals all closed down and mentals were put out on the street in the name of "compassion"...we let me tell you what...*MY* compassion goes out the those babies who were killed today...and their families!  Those kids were sacrificial lambs set up for the slaughter!  Enough is enough!!!  Re-open the mental hospitals and stick the crazies in there and throw away the key!!!  

I'm beyond shocked and sad...I'm angry and I want some action from our political leaders!!!


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

They would be trained profilers (able to recognize dangers or defuse dangers) before they erupt or happen, and yes there is training for that in America also.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.



The teacher was armed.  

The problem was, her mentally ill son, took her gun. Shot Her. Went to school.  Shot a bunch of other people.  

More guns are not the answer.


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## MikeK (Dec 14, 2012)

DiamondDave said:


> If it is the guns that kill people.. I better not hear anymore how Obama took down Bin Laden.. it was the guns that did it


The guns could not have found their way to bin Laden's bedroom without the Navy Seals who brought them there and used one to kill Usama.  So it really wasn't the guns that killed him, it was the people who brought and used them.  

Always and ever, guns do not kill people.  People do.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.
> ...


No one is asking for more guns just more education and the ability to defend innocent people. 

But thanks for yet another irrelevant post


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## Foxfyre (Dec 14, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Nope, I don't think so.  Not only would that be an expense that would take precious resources out of the school budget, but the gunman would target that guard immediately.  But he couldn't take out a dozen armed and trained teachers before one could nail him.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

MikeK said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > So far one SMALL CHILD is deceased.
> ...



Two choices
Allow a gunman to kill children
OR
 take a chance  hurting a child defending them?
I think I would whether go with the last option


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## MikeK (Dec 14, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Gramps' question is not untimely or unseemly.
> 
> I have a cousin who is a professor.  She is a always armed with a small pistol in a large sweater pocket.  Has been for more than a decade.
> 
> I approve.


Jake,

Your cousin is the exception, certainly not the rule.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.
> ...



Really this is news to me I hope you have collaborating sources.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

We allow businesses to be armed in order to defend their employees and products but we can't allow teachers the same? 

Doesn't make sense to me. A dozen or more lives today COULD have been spared.


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## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> mjollnir said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



No...that photo is appropriate!  It's right on target...middle class targets in well to do neighborhoods.  I'm not willing to gloss over this one...and as a matter of fact it brings all the other senseless massacures back to the forefront of my mind.

This time we can't just forget with time and chalk it up ...these school administraters are responsible for providing a safe environment for our children when they are in school!  So what are they gonna do about this ongoing problem???  What are our state and federal governments gonna do?  Or are they content with allowing our kindergartners to be massacred?


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## koshergrl (Dec 14, 2012)

What I find amazing is that liberals, who are continually saying we don't pay our teachers enough and elevating them to near-god status...claim they wouldn't trust them with a firearm, to protect their kids.

WTF?


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Its accurate but the guns were in her home. Hardly the scenario I've suggested. 

Basically a troll post


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


That's what I thought she wasn't armed
Joe is a lying cock sucker.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

jan said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > mjollnir said:
> ...



Why do you keep bringing race and class into this discussion?  Its irrelevant


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> What I find amazing is that liberals, who are continually saying we don't pay our teachers enough and elevating them to near-god status...claim they wouldn't trust them with a firearm, to protect their kids.
> 
> WTF?



It's because of that evil gun
The only group the liberals trust with guns are other liberals and the government.
You know about the gun running the government does don't you?


----------



## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> What I find amazing is that liberals, who are continually saying we don't pay our teachers enough and elevating them to near-god status...claim they wouldn't trust them with a firearm, to protect their kids.
> 
> WTF?



I'm pretty damn liberal myself...and I'm pissed off at what happened today.  I want some change!!!!!  Significant change is gonna have to happen...and not just lip service either.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 14, 2012)

Well in my day, teachers were not armed because it was unthinkable that they needed to be.  Nobody worried about some crazy showing up and shooting anybody, let alone the kids.  But in my day a lot of the teachers, including the women, were experienced hunters, and I am pretty sure almost all of them could load and fire a shotgun or other weapon.  My HS algebra teacher was a champion skeet shooter.

After today, I'm pretty sure you could get a pretty good bunch of volunteer teachers who would take the appropriate training and agree to be custodians of secured weapons in their classrooms.  And I would support such a program 100%.


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## MikeK (Dec 14, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> how about armed guards for schools


That is the most practical solution I can think of.  Well armed, well trained, well screened.


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## ABikerSailor (Dec 14, 2012)

Glensather said:


> I think that all persons over the age of 18 should be required to own a gun, and that starting at an early age, children should be educated on how to properly wield a weapon, about gun safety, and about how to take care of your weapon. Shit like this wouldn't happen if your entire workforce is armed with even a simple 9 millimeter.



Bullshit.  Are you SURE that you'd get the right person?



> The new poster boy for this agenda is Joe Zamudio, a hero in the Tucson incident. Zamudio was in a nearby drug store when the shooting began, and he was armed. He ran to the scene and helped subdue the killer. Television interviewers are celebrating his courage, and pro-gun blogs are touting his equipment. "Bystander Says Carrying Gun Prompted Him to Help," says the headline in the Wall Street Journal.
> 
> But before we embrace Zamudio's brave intervention as proof of the value of being armed, let's hear the whole story. "I came out of that store, I clicked the safety off, and I was ready," he explained on Fox and Friends. "I had my hand on my gun. I had it in my jacket pocket here. And I came around the corner like this." Zamudio demonstrated how his shooting hand was wrapped around the weapon, poised to draw and fire. As he rounded the corner, he saw a man holding a gun. "And that's who I at first thought was the shooter," Zamudio recalled. "I told him to 'Drop it, drop it!'"
> 
> ...



Armed hero nearly shot wrong man in Ariz. - Slate.com | NBC News

Even the guy who was carrying a concealed weapon said that things happened too fast and he almost shot the wrong person.

Besides...........looking for a gunman isn't something that schools are used to doing, so what makes you think that this person couldn't have sneaked up into a classroom and started popping off rounds?

Or..................do you think they're going to check in at the front office and tell everyone that they're going to kill some kids?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

MikeK said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > how about armed guards for schools
> ...



Why not teachers? I thought liberals thought teachers were capable to do anything. I would never allow my children around someone who could not defend them in this day and age.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

ABikerSailor said:


> Glensather said:
> 
> 
> > I think that all persons over the age of 18 should be required to own a gun, and that starting at an early age, children should be educated on how to properly wield a weapon, about gun safety, and about how to take care of your weapon. Shit like this wouldn't happen if your entire workforce is armed with even a simple 9 millimeter.
> ...



So you think children should be targets?


----------



## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> jan said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Race and class is relevant...I'm sorry if you disagree!  You know if this sort of stuff was happening in crime infested neighborhoods one almost expects these sorts of problems with drug wars and drive by shootings and so forth.  THIS IS NOT THE CASE HERE!!!  

These kids were doing what every parent wants their kids to do...go to school and pay attention.  This was a small neighborhood of about 2000 people...everybody knows everybody.  And in watching all the news footage today I didn't see one black or brown face...these are white, well to-do neighborhoods.  Even if we take out the fact that it was all white faces today with all of the eye witness interviews...it's well to do neighborhoods...and we deserve our tax dollars to go to work for us seeing as it's the middle and upper class who pay most of them to begin with!

Politically incorrect?  Frankly, I don't give a shit at this point!  Let's incorporate significant change that will prevent another massacre of the innocents !


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Well in my day, teachers were not armed because it was unthinkable that they needed to be.  Nobody worried about some crazy showing up and shooting anybody, let alone the kids.  But in my day a lot of the teachers, including the women, were experienced hunters, and I am pretty sure almost all of them could load and fire a shotgun or other weapon.  My HS algebra teacher was a champion skeet shooter.
> 
> After today, I'm pretty sure you could get a pretty good bunch of volunteer teachers who would take the appropriate training and agree to be custodians of secured weapons in their classrooms.  And I would support such a program 100%.



We must be close to the same age and had some of the same teachers.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 14, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



His mother wasn't armed but she was a teacher in that school.  One who didn't make it to school that morning because he murdered her before he left the house.  According to the most recent reports, however, all the weapons he used at the school were registered to her.

And nobody at the school had any defense against him.

Bus drivers have access to a weapon should they need one.  So do passenger train personnel, designated personnel on board cruise ships and merchant ships,  airline pilots, and I am going to guess a lot of cab drivers.   I fully support schools taking whatever measures are necessary to protect the kids.


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## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Well in my day, teachers were not armed because it was unthinkable that they needed to be.  Nobody worried about some crazy showing up and shooting anybody, let alone the kids.  But in my day a lot of the teachers, including the women, were experienced hunters, and I am pretty sure almost all of them could load and fire a shotgun or other weapon.  My HS algebra teacher was a champion skeet shooter.
> 
> After today, I'm pretty sure you could get a pretty good bunch of volunteer teachers who would take the appropriate training and agree to be custodians of secured weapons in their classrooms.  And I would support such a program 100%.



Let's also not forget that in our day Foxfyre, the crazies were in state run looney bins!!!!!  Locked up behind bars!!!


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## ABikerSailor (Dec 14, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > Glensather said:
> ...



Your reading comprehension is poor as usual Little Retarded Rebecca.  I put in the link to show that not everyone is going to be able to react in the proper way, even if they DO have a concealed permit to carry, as evidenced by what the man said, and, I also stated that nobody who is going to go into a school and shoot the place up ISN'T going to go announce themselves at the front desk, they're going to sneak into a place where they won't be detected until they start firing.

So............you who are in favor of small government want to start another government program to liscence and train teachers with weapons?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


Thanks for the clarification lying joe made it appear totally different.


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## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

Just found out a friend of mine from Connecticut attended that same school as a child. He lives up here now in Mass.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

ABikerSailor said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...



No retard gun grabber you have the opinion teachers should not be armed therefore our children go unprotected.
How in the hell do you sleep with that vile evil mentality?


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Or we could just limit gun ownership to responsible people who've proven they can be trusted.  

A woman who keeps guns in the same house as a son with a lifetime of mental illness obviously couldn't be trusted.


----------



## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> Just found out a friend of mine from Connecticut attended that same school as a child. He lives up here now in Mass.



I heard a lot of folks say today that they moved to that neighborhood because the schools were so good...and the neighborhod was safe.  I mean...WTF?


----------



## ABikerSailor (Dec 14, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Never said anything about grabbing guns.  However, I don't really think that guns have any place in the classroom either.  

But, like I said, arming all the teachers is just begging for trouble, because when things go down, they can happen pretty fast, and if you're not properly trained, you have a very real possibility of shooting the wrong person.

What is your solution?


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 14, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



She was a gun owner...  She apparently felt SO insecure, she owned FOUR guns.  

And apparently her son, with a lifetime of mental illness, took one of those guns, shot her, and then went to the school where she worked and shot her students. 

Yup. More guns. definitely the answer.


----------



## ABikerSailor (Dec 14, 2012)

jan said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > Just found out a friend of mine from Connecticut attended that same school as a child. He lives up here now in Mass.
> ...



It was recognized at one time as one of the safest places in America to raise a family.


----------



## MikeK (Dec 14, 2012)

OKTexas said:


> Maybe we should have a discussion about holidays, violence seem to rise this time of year, or maybe it's winter, cold, cloudy days are depressing so maybe global warming isn't a bad thing. We can speculate all day, but really what good will it do. I just know you can't blame a tractor for a lousy harvest, it's just a tool.


No doubt about it.  This time of year is conducive to emotional extremes or it can trigger some really dangerous ones.


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 14, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Except reducing the  number of guns and the access that mentally ill people have to them, apparently.  

Again- rest of the world, they don't let anyone who has a gun have them.  And they have a LOT less of this kind of thing going on.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



So now its her fault? What is it with you people and personal responsibility? He pulled the trigger. For all you know her guns were locked up. And please post any evidence you have about his mental condition as well as your claim that he lived with her.


----------



## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

MikeK said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe we should have a discussion about holidays, violence seem to rise this time of year, or maybe it's winter, cold, cloudy days are depressing so maybe global warming isn't a bad thing. We can speculate all day, but really what good will it do. I just know you can't blame a tractor for a lousy harvest, it's just a tool.
> ...



OH PLEASE!!!!!  The fact that Christmas is upon us is what's irrevenant!  This stuff has been happening for far too long and I don't think they all happen around significant Christian holidays!  Give me a break!

Apparently our society doesn't adequetly address mental illness...people are given a pill and told to go on their way.  Apparently that's just not working!  Re-open the state mental hospitals, put the crazies in there and throw away the key!  Boom...problem solved!


----------



## ABikerSailor (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



If her guns were locked up safely, how did he get ahold of them?  Most people that I know who own guns generally don't have a gun safe.

My Uncle Bill had around 40 pistols and rifles in his house, and all of them were either in drawers or in racks on the walls.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



We don't live in the rest of the world. We live in America. 

Again you're irrelevant


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

jan said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > Just found out a friend of mine from Connecticut attended that same school as a child. He lives up here now in Mass.
> ...


 
Truly.

Mental illness and the violence that sometimes stems from certain mental illnesses can be found in any family and any neighborhood honestly.

Money can't buy you safety.
Nice lawns can't buy you safety.
More gun laws can't buy you safety.

We are human beings. I see more vehicles causing deaths and horrific injuries than guns. I think texting and other distractions while driving is more dangerous than ever today. I think road rage is more prevalent today. Drunk driving anyone?  Maybe it is time to crack down all those people who risk my life and my loved  ones lives when they get in their cars and get manic in their behavior. Seriously, if people want to go after guns as the root of all evil I can assure you I will be right there going after some of the maniacs I see going after me and others with their cars.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



While it's amusing to watch you squirm, you are kind of stretching. 



> Ryan (the shooter's brother) told police he was not involved and that his brother has a history of mental health issues and might have had his ID at the time of the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary, officials said.
> 
> Two 9mm handguns, one made by Glock and the other by Sig Sauer, were recovered inside the school. An AR-15-type rifle also was found at the scene, but there conflicting reports Friday night whether it had been used in the shooting.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

ABikerSailor said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



I don't know if they were or not and neither does joe. That's the point.

Place the blame where it belongs is all I'm saying.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> We don't live in the rest of the world. We live in America.
> 
> Again you're irrelevant



You mean, we aren't going to follow a bit of common sense we see everyone else do, because, DAMMIT, we're Americans! 

Really and seriously?


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## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

ABikerSailor said:


> jan said:
> 
> 
> > Dreamy said:
> ...



I believe it!!!  And in case folks haven't noticed...when anything like this happens it's always in a middle class or upper class setting!  Universities, movie theaters, malls, schools...and now elementary schools.  We've entered into a new low for this country when we allow this to happen and don't make any real changes!  

Frankly, the writing was on the wall...this sort of stuff has been going on for far too long...and now it's the innocents...who couldn't have possibly hurt anybody...EVER!  No...this has gone too far and we as citizens need to DEMAND change!  Yes...DEMAND!


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## JoeB131 (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



I do.  

I put the blame on the mother for giving such a dangerous kid access to guns.  Jesus, a kindergarden teacher who owned FOUR guns?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Do you comprehend this?
No one allowed him access to the guns he took them


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## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

jan said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > OKTexas said:
> ...


 

I was thinking instead of blaming guns maybe we should look at the aspects of our society toward human life that lead some people to value it so little.

If people want to blame guns for this man's killings then maybe we can also look at what parts of society are causing people, mentally ill or not, to de-value life so much?


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



None of that supports your claim. My brother is a leech in my opinion. That doesn't actually make him one. It makes it my opinion. Thanks but I'll wait for doctors reports on his mental condition. 

I also heard the rifle was a 22. Hardly an assault rifle. And it never left his car according to the latest police report.


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## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> jan said:
> 
> 
> > Dreamy said:
> ...



Whatever!  And I mean that...whatever we have to do to protect the innocent.  If it means prohibition on alcohol...fine.  If that means opening up the state hospitals again, fine!  If that means public transportation for everybody so nobody gets into a car accident...fine!  But one thing I never want to have to witness on the news again is a shooter opening fire on a bunch of kindergartners.  No...that cannot be tolerated within our society...no!


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## Foxfyre (Dec 14, 2012)

ABikerSailor said:


> Glensather said:
> 
> 
> > I think that all persons over the age of 18 should be required to own a gun, and that starting at an early age, children should be educated on how to properly wield a weapon, about gun safety, and about how to take care of your weapon. Shit like this wouldn't happen if your entire workforce is armed with even a simple 9 millimeter.
> ...



While I am all for those who want to defend themselves or others to have the right to do so, I am also of the opinion nobody should be forced to do so.  Everybody won't want the responsibility and everybody might not be suited for it.  Just like on the plane where the flight attendant makes sure those sitting by the emergency exits are prepared to take responsibility should that be necessary.   If they aren't, they are moved.

From time to time soldiers and police officers are wounded or killed by friendly fire.  Sometimes they shoot the wrong person.  Cases of mistaken identify result in false arrest on a fairly regular basis.  And it is probable that sooner or later a trained and armed teacher might miscalculate in the process of protecting the kids.

But looking at all those kindergarten children and school personnel who were murdered today, with absolutely no way to defend themselves, I'm willing to take the risk that at some time at some point there could be an accident or miscalculation by a volunteer protector.  Today, if teachers had been armed and trained to act, a lot of lives might have been saved.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 14, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> [
> 
> Do you comprehend this?
> No one allowed him access to the guns he took them



If she couldn't keep them out of his hands, he had access.  

My dad had a lot of guns.  He kept them under lock and key. He kept the ammo in a place we couldn't find it.  And I would imagine if one of us turned out to be crazier than a Fox News Commentator, he'd have taken more measures than that.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> None of that supports your claim. My brother is a leech in my opinion. That doesn't actually make him one. It makes it my opinion. Thanks but I'll wait for doctors reports on his mental condition.
> 
> I also heard the rifle was a 22. Hardly an assault rifle. And it never left his car according to the latest police report.



An M-16 is technically a 22.  Again, we don't know if that one was used in teh assault or not.. but the 9 MM's were.  

Are you really trying to say that this guy wasn't mentally ill?  I would think we have ample evidence to the contrary.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > We don't live in the rest of the world. We live in America.
> ...



So you are the oritor of what's common sense in other countries? I suppose we should adopt Chinas population control ideas as well?


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## Old Rocks (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> 
> I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.



Oh yes. That's the answer. More fucking guns.

Merry Christmas from the NRA.

Fuck you assholes. How many more shootings before we take these war guns off the streets? 

Time for the sane in this nation to point out the insanity of you worshipers of death.


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## koshergrl (Dec 14, 2012)

jan said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > jan said:
> ...


 
You already tolerate it.

You tolerate it when you determine that no person can be trusted to defend himself and his loved ones, when you restrict our access to guns, when you declare that anti-social, mentally ill individuals be *mainstreamed*.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > None of that supports your claim. My brother is a leech in my opinion. That doesn't actually make him one. It makes it my opinion. Thanks but I'll wait for doctors reports on his mental condition.
> ...



I have no idea. People snap all the time and bad shit happens. I'm not a psychologist are you?


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> ...



Pistols are war guns? 

Umm okay


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.
> ...


Really ? I don't think so, but nice try anyway....


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## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> jan said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...



I absolutely agree with you!  I've been asking myself all day long as this has played out on the news what the hell is wrong with our society that something like this can happen?  Seriously...something is SERIOUSLY wrong with our society!  Not just because of today...but because of *all* of these stupid, senseless killings!

But I have to say...today takes the cake!!!  Those kids were babies!  I think about my girls first day of school and how excited they were to get on the school bus and go to school like a "big girl"...but they were babies then...not big girls.  And today's travisty does indeed hit the heart of every parent out there.  Everyone who has ever had a kindergartner experience their first day of school can relate to this in a very meaningful and personal way.

This behavior cannot continue...IT'S NOT OK!!!


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...


Don't need to fall for the idiotic rehtoric these people use in this way, because these people are the reason we have these problems in this nation now so sad to say. They are so detached from reality that it is ashame.. Thri heads are buried so far in the sand that they think of us as the fools.. I really feel for this nation, because it is almost to the point of no return... Like I ask before, who would these killers be associated with if they voted ?


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## JoeB131 (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Since we aren't dealing with China's population problem, no.  

(I think the word you were looking for here is "Arbitor", btw).  

Fact is, we've tried your solution- Lock up everyone you can (more people than China does) and arm everyone else.  Do you feel any safer knowing the Kindergarten teacher's guns were used to slaughter her entire class by her whackjob son who probably should have been in an hosptial we don't fund because we don't have universal health care?


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## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

> You already tolerate it.
> 
> You tolerate it when you determine that no person can be trusted to defend himself and his loved ones, when you restrict our access to guns, when you declare that anti-social, mentally ill individuals be *mainstreamed*.
> __________________



Yo bud...pay attention here.  If you can't keep up take notes.

I was one of the folks who said the teachers should indeed be armed and ready and forced to take gun classes and practice their freakin' aim on the weekends!

And yes...I'm a Democrat and a liberal...but enough is enough!  If we can't beat them...let's join them...give the teachers guns...and let them be ready!


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## JoeB131 (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



He didn't "snap", he had a whole history of this sort of thing.   

Oh, wait, we can't trust his brother (now having the worst day of his life) because you don't like YOUR brother. I'm guessing this was your argument.  It's hard to tell, because you seem to avoid the obvious answer. 

Private citizens- for the most part- don't need guns.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 14, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



And in my household growing up, a 12 guage shotgun was displayed over the mantle and every member of the household knew where the ammo was and how to load it and how to aim and fire it.  But the younger kids knew we were not to touch it without permission and we didn't.  Almost all of the older boys and a lot of the girls owned their own shotgun or hunting rifle.  And in all my growing up years, nobody ever shot anybody in our town--there were a couple of hunting accidents of minor consequence--and nobody was murdered.  During hunting season, the boys usually had guns in the the racks in their trucks ready to go hunting as soon as school let out.

The 20-year-old son was hardly a kid though.  He could have already served two years in the military where everybody carried guns.

Different times.  Different culture.   In today's culture there is far more evil, violence, and insane behavior.  Yes keep the guns out of the hands of kids now.    But lets give the teachers the means to protect them from the crazies.


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

jan said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > jan said:
> ...


Forced Social Engineering is not Ok, but that is what we have had, and compliments of who (?), and it is what we got still going on, so get ready for more to come in America, and this is what I think, because the liberals are dis-respected and are unstable morally,  and they have led this nation into the pit, while the so called conservatives/repubs became greedy and have also led this nation into the pit.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Thanks for the grammar correction. Having said that I think our discussion is done. You came into this thread misrepresenting the facts to suit your point of view. If that is the level you're going to start off with then there really is no point.

One bullet could have saved dozens. That point can't be argued. End of discussion


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



If if if 
If you had a brain you could think and use common sense.


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## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Ding, ding, ding...I think we have a winner!  The guns aren't the problem...mental illness is!

More people are on anti-depressants than any other drug...why?  Are we all that miserable?  We're given a pill and told to go on our way...but that's not adequate, apparently!


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


How many do you want to lock up in a mental ward ?


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## Dreamy (Dec 14, 2012)

jan said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > jan said:
> ...


 
I know. Lot's of emotions are raw for us all right now. No decent people want to see little children killed ever but when ot happens like this it really shakes us to the core.

I want to understand more about this man and to understand if there were any warning signs that he was dangerous to others. I also want to understand what exactly was his mental illness and when did it begin.

IMO to be going right for more gun laws is silly. The question is was this man's violent nature known to anyone. Lot's still unknown.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Would all these gun laws have prevented this?

Latest News - Jamaica Observer Mobile


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


No thank you button showing ?, so thanks..


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## eots (Dec 14, 2012)

jan said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



drugging so called mental illness is the problem...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSZ9YTnSkLc]SCHOOL SHOOTINGS II - YouTube[/ame]


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## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> jan said:
> 
> 
> > Dreamy said:
> ...



Oh cut the partisan crap!!!  This isn't partisan...it's not Dems vs. Reps.  I call bullshit on meaningless hyperbole that doesn't adequetly address the subject at all! 

Please...spare me the bullshit today!


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



It does that to me all the time...


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## Arthur (Dec 14, 2012)

I am with elementary school children every day.  I'm with kindergarten every day.  Unfortunately, with as many guns as we have in America this could have happened ANYWHERE.

I know what 20 kindergarteners look like.  They are babies.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Lets all just hope there are no copy cats....


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



You said that she was armed
you also said her son had access to those firearms.
Neither are true.
1. being a gun owner doesn't mean you are armed
2. having a gun in the house doesn't mean someone has access to those firearms.


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## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> jan said:
> 
> 
> > Dreamy said:
> ...



I balled my eyes out today as I watched all this transpire on CNN.  Raw?  You bet!!!  Decent citizens and children are being slaughtered...and we apparently are allowing it to happen!

Yeah...I'm raw!  And everyone SHOULD be raw given what's happened today!  

You know...maybe because my emotions are raw...but I really don't care about the details of this guy's mental illness...I don't want to develop compassion for the killer of these kids.  My compassion for him is totally turned to "off".  He's not my concern other than to try to prevent this from happening again to innocent kids.

I'm through trying to understand "why" these crazy people do what they do...lock 'em up and throw away the key.


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

jan said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > jan said:
> ...


Listen up, everything has either political involvement, cultural involvement, it is meaningful, not meaningful, dutyfull, not dutyfull, understandable, not understandable, related to or not related to any subject talked about in this nation as pertaining to, because in these events can be found all that makes us who we are for better or for worse as Americans now, and in these events can be found anyone of these noted above either having a direct impact or indirect impact that leads to the culprit in these situations if studied correctly. Your attitude is exactly why these events keep happening, so sorry if we don't just shut our mouths when maybe trying to get closer to the actual cluprits in our culture these days, in which may be causing these problems, and yes there are political ramifications or elements involved always.


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## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Lets all just hope there are no copy cats....



Come on...you know it's gonna happen!  That's apparently who we are as a society nowadays!  Sad?  You bet.  True?  Apparently!


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

Joe B in one post you said mass shooting are as common now as they have always been
I say you are a liar
Notice the rise in mass shootings and what legislation became law during that rise?


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## Arthur (Dec 14, 2012)

20 five year olds.

Let's get more guns everyone.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

Arthur said:


> 20 five year olds.
> 
> Let's get more guns everyone.



I agree


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

jan said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Lets all just hope there are no copy cats....
> ...


As a sick society now-a-days..


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## Old Rocks (Dec 14, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Joe B in one post you said mass shooting are as common now as they have always been
> I say you are a liar
> Notice the rise in mass shootings and what legislation became law during that rise?



You are part of the problem. You are one of the people with the blood of these children on your hands. You worship violence, and feature a gun in your avatar. I hold you and the others that cannot see what they have created in utter contempt.


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## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> jan said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



Fuck off Beagal!


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## MarcATL (Dec 14, 2012)

Ravi said:


> I'm surprised cons would trust teachers with guns since they believe all teacher are liberals.
> 
> And no, given the fact that sometimes teachers abuse children, teachers should not be armed.


I know...right?


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

Arthur said:


> 20 five year olds.
> 
> Let's get more guns everyone.


Guns Guns Guns is all you think about, but no word on the man who stabbed all the children in China eh ? Thought not...


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Joe B in one post you said mass shooting are as common now as they have always been
> ...



oh yeah I know you the one who thinks a hunting rifle makes for good home defense weapon.
The one who doesn't take into account the over penetration of the projectile that just went into his neighbors home and possibly killed his neighbor or his neighbors children.
No you are the problem with your less than knowledgeable opinion.


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## ABikerSailor (Dec 14, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Joe B in one post you said mass shooting are as common now as they have always been
> I say you are a liar
> Notice the rise in mass shootings and what legislation became law during that rise?



Wanna provide a link so that we can look at this graph in context, or are you just pulling crap off of the 'net and posting it as "fact"?


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Joe B in one post you said mass shooting are as common now as they have always been
> ...


Sorry but you are wrong, and have been called on such wrong.... What about *money*, is it not more evil and more poweful than the gun ? How many has it led to the grave in society over the years ?

Should we ban money maybe ? Hey couldn't buy those guns then, oh see I thought not..


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## Luddly Neddite (Dec 14, 2012)

If more guns were the answer, we would have already solved this. There is no end to the guns in this country and it has solved nothing.

Two Glocks and a Bushmaster. The answer is not to add more guns. 

The question, how how will we let this issue hold us hostage? How many children have to die? 

32+ deaths every day added to these insane mass murders and still, we argue about gun "control".

It really is insane.


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

Oh it's not the money that kill's, but rather the willingness of the people to use it to get the job done... Dang I wasn't suppose to understand such non-sense was I ?


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## Arthur (Dec 14, 2012)

Carry on.  I'll mourn this tragedy with real people, not schmucks.


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> If more guns were the answer, we would have already solved this. There is no end to the guns in this country and it has solved nothing.
> 
> Two Glocks and a Bushmaster. The answer is not to add more guns.
> 
> ...


The real argument can't be waged, and so on it all goes sadly enough...


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## Politico (Dec 14, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Joe B in one post you said mass shooting are as common now as they have always been
> I say you are a liar
> Notice the rise in mass shootings and what legislation became law during that rise?



Interesting how they always spike during Democrat administrations.


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## ABikerSailor (Dec 14, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Really?  Deflection with this?  

Sorry, but comparing guns to money is apples and oranges dude.


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## Luddly Neddite (Dec 14, 2012)

candycorn said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



I think it was gramps who said this should not be posted. I disagree. This is exactly what we should be looking at and thinking about.  Do the math and you see that if this child had lived, he could have been the parent of one the babies shot and killed today. 

We need to stop making excuses why we can't stop this. We CAN stop it but only if we pull together as a country who cares about our own. We really do need to care enough to stop using dead children as political footballs. 

As I said, if more guns were the answer, we would have already solved this because the one thing we have no shortage of in this country is more damn guns.


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## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

eots said:


> jan said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Why are we all so miserable?  Why do so many people need anti-depressants?  Let us count the reasons:

We're pushed to work harder for less pay, basically being a slave to the workplace.

People almost NEED a two earner income to make ends meet anymore.

Kids are labled hyperactive quite frequently because parents are too busy to actually parent their children...it's easier to just give them a pill and tell them to go on their way.

Kids are under extreme pressure to make the grades so they can get a scholorship and get into a certain college.  So they take the pills so they can focus...getting an education based on not who they actually are, but who they are on drugs.


I'm sure there's a ton of other reasons...but frankly, I'm sick of trying to understand non-understandable behavior!  We go round and round with this every time something like this happens trying to understand insanity, when it's impossible to understand insanity.  It's like trying to understand someone who has Altzheimers...it can't be done because they aren't lucid when they have their moments beligerant behavior...sense can't be made out of nonsense.


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## Luddly Neddite (Dec 14, 2012)

Politico said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Joe B in one post you said mass shooting are as common now as they have always been
> ...



Please don't.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 14, 2012)

More guns is not the problem.  The problem is putting kids in a position in which there is no way to defend or protect them.  What the OP suggests, and what makes the most sense, is making sure there is a way to defend and protect the kids from a madman bent on committing mayhem.

Related but different subjects are police action, concealed carry, the homeowner protecting his home, etc. etc.

Here, let's focus on protecting those kids.


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## Samson (Dec 14, 2012)

Nova78 said:


> Time to arm the teachers ?
> 
> Boy, what a well thought out statement....



Indeed.



Banning schools is a much better solution.


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

Politico said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Joe B in one post you said mass shooting are as common now as they have always been
> ...


Without the graphs, I was wondering about that also... 

I wonder if there is any link to this dem culture that is built around liberalism, and it having to much disfunction now found in the familes maybe ? Hey it's a fair question, and it is not out of line to ask, because while being on the trail to the answers we all seek, we soon will find the culture and the culprits responsible who are found within a culture or cultural movement, and this be it sooner and not later hopefully..


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## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> If more guns were the answer, we would have already solved this. There is no end to the guns in this country and it has solved nothing.
> 
> Two Glocks and a Bushmaster. The answer is not to add more guns.
> 
> ...



I know!  Right?  Gun control?  Talk about a red herring!


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...


Nothing wrong with more guns, just as long as they are put into the hands of good people, and not bad people... It's really simple as that, but I agree that the problem could be solved in other ways, but first we have to begin calling it as we see it, no more kitty catting around..


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## eots (Dec 14, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Politico said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fYF8QiL-TU]Psychiatric Drugs -Increased Suicides & Violent Acts in America - YouTube[/ame]


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## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Politico said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Ok...you might be back in my good graces for the moment due to the latter part of your post.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Can we leave the demonizing of political opponents out of a thread about how to protect our school children? Its counter productive and will only serve to derail the thread into a mud slinging contest.


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## Samson (Dec 14, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> More guns is not the problem.  The problem is putting kids in a position in which there is no way to defend or protect them.  What the OP suggests, and what makes the most sense, is making sure there is a way to defend and protect the kids from a madman bent on committing mayhem.
> 
> Related but different subjects are police action, concealed carry, the homeowner protecting his home, etc. etc.
> 
> Here, let's focus on protecting those kids.



"making sure there is a way to defend and protect the kids from a madman bent on committing mayhem"

Fort Hood, 2009, a single gunman killed 13 people and wounded 29 others.

In the middle of the biggest military installation in the USA.

How do you propose protecting every elementary school in the USA? Surround them with soldiers?

People go crazy: Nothing will prevent this.


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

jan said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > jan said:
> ...


Now here we go with some answers in which I also agree with...... Lets get on the right track and investigate the right things...Good Job..


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

eots said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Politico said:
> ...


What cultures is this affecting the most you think ? Who are these killers is what I want to know, and what would be their affiliations in life ? We need to follow the trail and/or get onto the trail somehow...


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## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

Samson said:


> Nova78 said:
> 
> 
> > Time to arm the teachers ?
> ...



I actually considered that today.  Perhaps we all need home portals to distance classrooms.  Virtual classrooms?  It's probably safer than our universities, elementry schools, theaters, malls etc.

Let's just do everything virtually...why go out anywhere or interact with anybody?


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

jan said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Nova78 said:
> ...



After posting online regularly I have to say.....no thanks lol


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

Samson said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > More guns is not the problem.  The problem is putting kids in a position in which there is no way to defend or protect them.  What the OP suggests, and what makes the most sense, is making sure there is a way to defend and protect the kids from a madman bent on committing mayhem.
> ...


I dis-agree, we can prevent this, and we can also prevent it from building up as well, but first we have to get honest in it all.


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## candycorn (Dec 14, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



The political affiliations of the people that do these things are varied from what I have heard.


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## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> jan said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...





It just gets so frustrating when good citizens and now children are getting punished for doing everything right!  Why is it that the good ones have to pay the price for the evil ones?  Why?


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## Luddly Neddite (Dec 14, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> luddly.neddite said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



We have a country full of "good" people with guns. It has never helped before and it won't help in the future. More people than ever before have guns in the US and yet, no "civilian" ever jumps up and kills the shooter.

You can fill our grade schools and churches and restaurants and bars and parks and every place you can think of but that will not stop the murders and mass killings.  

One reason is that the mass killer has done his killing and killed himself before the bystanders have a chance to even realize what's happening. 

This guy had two Glocks and a Bushmaster. 

You gonna carry a semi-auto military rifle like a Bushmaster in your purse? How long will it take you to get it out and fire at him? 

You really think you won't be shaking and scared? You think you'll be cold and steady and be able to take him out before he could kill you?

That's a fantasy.


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

jan said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Nova78 said:
> ...


Now that would be the definition of losing everyones freedoms totally in America (i.e. we are done). Not going to happen... The problem can be solved, but we have to become honest finally..


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## Samson (Dec 14, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



We "have to get honest in it all."



What The Fuck is that supposed to mean?


----------



## candycorn (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > NoNukes said:
> ...



Some here WANT to PLACE firearms in schools....and you're calling me irrational?  Lets say we do that and the assailant outguns the teacher....do you honestly believe that some of the single celled organisms that post here would not be calling for belt-fed weapons for teachers?  

Maybe it's time to read the 2nd amendment; know that they were talking about a militia and not anyone who has an internet connection to cheaperthandirt.com.


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > luddly.neddite said:
> ...


Your post is fantasized, because there are solutions, but people like you are a distraction to those solutions..


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## Samson (Dec 14, 2012)

jan said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Nova78 said:
> ...



Exactly.



The first step is becomming a member of an internet discussion board: after that, the rest is easy.


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## Luddly Neddite (Dec 14, 2012)

What is so frustrating about this issue is that we give up before we even try to mitigate the damage. Our gun laws make it legal to buy a gun even if you're on the national terrorist list.

HOW is THAT sane??


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## candycorn (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



These are the stakes of not having sensible gun control laws.  If you don't like it, you should probably move to a country that does and fix toilets there skippy.  

More kids in theaters, classrooms, churches, etc will die by crazy people who can get weapons.  

Wasn't it shit stains like you who were saying during the election that "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."  Gee, just this year we've had multiple mass shootings.  Yet we're doing nothing.  The one I referenced happened in 1984--28 years ago.  Maybe 28 years of mass murder is enough?


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## candycorn (Dec 14, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



Fuck you.


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## candycorn (Dec 14, 2012)

mjollnir said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > mjollnir said:
> ...



Now isn't the time to discuss it.
It wasn't time 28 years ago either.
Maybe in the year 2056 we can discuss it?  
Grumps is just looking for a fight; as always.


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## Samson (Dec 14, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> luddly.neddite said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



Yes, SOLUTIONS, like "we have to get honest in it all."



Love it!


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> What is so frustrating about this issue is that we give up before we even try to mitigate the damage. Our gun laws make it legal to buy a gun even if you're on the national terrorist list.
> 
> HOW is THAT sane??


Horse shit

[ame=http://youtu.be/uJBZZKlvrP4]Rahm Emanuel, if you are on No Fly List, No Gun! Alex Jones Film, The Obama Deception - YouTube[/ame]


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

candycorn said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...


Do you realize that we are living in different times, and we are dealing with different people's mindsets ? If we didnot have the guns, it may be almost impossible to walk the streets now, because things could actually be alot worse than what they are. Ever looked at it that away or from that angle ?


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> What is so frustrating about this issue is that we give up before we even try to mitigate the damage. Our gun laws make it legal to buy a gun even if you're on the national terrorist list.
> 
> HOW is THAT sane??


Yes I agree that some reform may be needed, but only if voted on by the citizens as a whole, and not by special interest groups or leftist radical liberals...


----------



## Samson (Dec 14, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> What is so frustrating about this issue is that we give up before we even try to mitigate the damage. Our gun laws make it legal to buy a gun even if you're on the national terrorist list.
> 
> HOW is THAT sane??



How do you know?

Are you on the list?


----------



## candycorn (Dec 14, 2012)

MikeK said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > So far one SMALL CHILD is deceased.
> ...



You've got to love the paradox of conservatism, don't you?

Teachers cannot talk about sex, religion, contraception etc...these same dipshits pull their kids out of class when the President wants to talk to them.

Yet...hell, lets put guns in the classrooms to keep the peace.


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## Arthur (Dec 14, 2012)

Time to invent some kind of  Xray that disables guns.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

Samson said:


> luddly.neddite said:
> 
> 
> > What is so frustrating about this issue is that we give up before we even try to mitigate the damage. Our gun laws make it legal to buy a gun even if you're on the national terrorist list.
> ...


he doesn't realize he has it backwards.


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## candycorn (Dec 14, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



He was fatally shot by the police according to the link. It was posted above.  Dumbass.


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## candycorn (Dec 14, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Sorry.  No funding.  Remember, you guys hate spending money on schools.


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

Samson said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > luddly.neddite said:
> ...


Quick jabs will get you an idiot award, because if you would take the time to go back and read, I have placed solutions on the table, and I think they are adequate and fair minded..


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## Samson (Dec 14, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > luddly.neddite said:
> ...



That would make him insane, and possibly a gun owner.

Perhaps he should be put down.....


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## Samson (Dec 14, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



"adequate and fair minded" = "we have to get honest in it all."



Keep it coming.


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

candycorn said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...


Well is it the liberals and their dis-functional drugged up young spoiled rotten adults, that we are having to protect ourselves from now in that class room ?


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## candycorn (Dec 14, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Should we arm all of the stewardesses on an airplane?  The actors on a stage at a play?  The guy who runs the roller rink where kids get together?  The clown that performs at a children's party? 

Just want to see how fucked up your thinking is on this matter.  

The answer, according to you is to quell violence by introducing more violence or the threat of such.


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## Samson (Dec 14, 2012)

candycorn said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...



So, You want to pay for armed guards?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

Arthur said:


> Time to invent some kind of  Xray that disables guns.



The KKK was he first to support gun control you do them proud.


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

Samson said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...


Idiot award coming to ya -

LOL sorry, but you asked for it...


----------



## candycorn (Dec 14, 2012)

jan said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Well in my day, teachers were not armed because it was unthinkable that they needed to be.  Nobody worried about some crazy showing up and shooting anybody, let alone the kids.  But in my day a lot of the teachers, including the women, were experienced hunters, and I am pretty sure almost all of them could load and fire a shotgun or other weapon.  My HS algebra teacher was a champion skeet shooter.
> ...



Thank goodness for small government; we got rid of those institutions just in time.


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## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

candycorn said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



Yes!!!  Enough is enough!  This has gone on for far too long!

The bullies are running the show and the good people of the United States re -act instead of being pro-active.  This isn't working!


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## Samson (Dec 14, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



Wow you found the smilies.



Bravo.

Now, if you could only find an intelligent thought to post.....


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## candycorn (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Do you not think we can learn something from the rest of the world on this?  They seem to have it figured out.  First the metric system which is far and away superior to our standard units....now this.  

Oh yeah, I forgot, we're exceptional in every way.


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

Samson said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...


Why make it sound so military like, when it is only maybe saying that the schools need a program where a few plain clothes officers are on duty, but that is how you roll isn't it ?


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## Samson (Dec 14, 2012)

candycorn said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...




So, you think individuals go psychotic trying to remember how many ounces are in a pound?


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## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

candycorn said:


> jan said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Just in time for what?  Boldness among the crazies to take up arms and massacre the masses?  Ummmm...ok.

Re-open the state hospitals and toss the crazies in there.  Either that or colonize the moon and send them up there to live and work...away from the decent people of the world.  I'm tired of the evil ones taking out the good.  I mean...damn...that's just downright twisted!


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## Samson (Dec 14, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



No, I was just happy that you'd volunteer to pay the salaries and benefits of three guys that would just wonder around a school campus all day with a gun, regardless of their uniform.

When can I sign up?


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## jan (Dec 14, 2012)

candycorn said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



It's society that's fucked up!  And to deny the good guys weapons to protect themselves while the gunmans run rampant is what doesn't make sense.  At least give the teachers and the administration a way to protect the kids instead of just letting them be sitting ducks.


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

Samson said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...


Oh so now you are angry, because I'm not being such the nice guy in this thread as you want me to be ? I'll try harder to be nicer, but not while the blood of children are on the nations hands it probably won't happen. People need to be frank now, and they need to be honest.


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

Samson said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...


Again money takes presidence with the likes of you, over the childrens lives ? Interesting...


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## Samson (Dec 14, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



Ok.



Frankly, and honestly, you have a particularly weak mind, and should probably stop posting before you hurt yourself....."while the blood of children are on the nations hands."



"the nation's hands?"

Maybe you've already blown a fuse.


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## Samson (Dec 14, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



I want to protect children.

Pay me $50,000/yr plus benefits, and let me unionize with my fellow workers to collectively bargain.

It would only be fair.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Sampson this thread was fairly productive till you showed up. 30+ pages and then you trash it with your trolling. 

Good job dickhead.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Sampson this thread was fairly productive till you showed up. 30+ pages and then you trash it with your trolling.
> 
> Good job dickhead.


Actually Sampson is making a point I guess you missed it.


----------



## Samson (Dec 14, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Sampson this thread was fairly productive till you showed up. 30+ pages and then you trash it with your trolling.
> ...



I thought I smelled Grampa crapping his pants.

Senility is so sad, but somehow he makes it amusing.


----------



## BruSan (Dec 14, 2012)

Sure arm more people! There's a solution right out of Kafka.  What's next, arm the six year olds to allow them to protect themselves from teachers going postal? 

All these nutbars with guns and no one thinks requiring anyone to submit to a mental examination before allowing them to own a bang-bang might be a first step to reducing the mayhem?

Carry on folks. you'll get so inured to these reports that you'll behave like you normally do and just get used to and ignore them in your usual cavalier fashion, but your 2nd AMENDMENT rights will be sacrosanct. Oh, by the way, anyone here familiar with the definition of the word *amendment;* as in the very word is a description of how it came into being and what the hell can be done with it? 

You retarded fucknuts need to *AMEND* the damn thing!

No need for any concern, Homeland Security is on the case. They'll be mandated to set up TSA checkpoints at the driveway leading to every school now. Your taxes will of course pay for all of this added security for your six year olds.  What a FUBAR'D country!

"Land of the free and home of the brave" my rosy red azz!


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

Samson said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...


If you think this is not a national problem, and this after 40 of these school shootings since Columbine, then you have some serious issues my friend.... How about sticking more to solutional talk, instead of picking fights with people on this stinking internet to try and make yourself look so cool or hip... Now who is the weak mind here really ?


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

BruSan said:


> Sure arm more people! There's a solution right out of Kafka.  What's next, arm the six year olds to allow them to protect themselves from teachers going postal?
> 
> All these nutbars with guns and no one thinks requiring anyone to submit to a mental examination before allowing them to own a bang-bang might be a first step to reducing the mayhem?
> 
> ...


It once was land of the free and home of the brave, but immoral liberalism and greed amongst others took over, and now we have total chaos yes. 

This is total chaos, just ask any of these parents and they will confirm it.


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## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Sampson this thread was fairly productive till you showed up. 30+ pages and then you trash it with your trolling.
> ...


And what point was that ?


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 14, 2012)

Samson said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...


You use the deaths of children to attack the union ? wow..


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...


It would cost more money on a already taxed educational system. When you trained a few educated teachers in the use of firearm it would cut the cost of hiring new people.


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## Synthaholic (Dec 14, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> posibility of two shooters? one is in custody? *Fox News*



Totally false reporting=FOXNEWS


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Funny, if that was his point why didn't he just say it instead of mocking other posters with his nonsensical attack posts?


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 14, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > posibility of two shooters? one is in custody? *Fox News*
> ...



Fluid stories are often innacurate in their first reportings. 

Remember msnbc tying the tea party to the movie theater shooting? Yeah, that was lies in reporting. But you're a hack so you really don't care.


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## uscitizen (Dec 14, 2012)

right wingers calling for arming union members???


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



Because it's silly to suggest hiring more people when you already have educated people on the payroll.


----------



## MikeK (Dec 14, 2012)

jan said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > OKTexas said:
> ...


Jan,

I agree with you about re-opening the mental hospitals.  But in spite of your rejection of the idea, which I didn't invent, the fact remains that violent crime rises during the Christmas season.  

Does Violent Crime Increase During the Holidays?

If you happen to know any experienced police officers, ask them about it.  The most extreme manifestation is in the category of domestic violence but there also is a spike in the ordinary assault and homicide statistics.

This holiday season begins to induce a high level of emotional stimulus in childhood and the effect continues well into adult development, spanning the entire spectrum of potential feelings, from extreme happiness and joy to suicidal dejection.  And homicidal rage is often unbearable suicidal dejection turned outward.  

While I'm not suggesting the holiday is responsible for triggering the pathological rage that set Adam Lanza off I certainly do not reject the possibility.


----------



## MikeK (Dec 14, 2012)

jan said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > jan said:
> ...


Jan,

Prohibitions, whether of alcohol, other drugs, or guns, do not work in a free society.  We know that from exhaustive experience.  Even under the most extremely repressive police state conditions someone who desperately wants something and is willing to pay for it probably will end up getting it.  

There really is no solution to the problem of occasional manifestations of sheer madness in American society, the nature of which is conducive to psychopathology.  These incredibly crazy events, from the Columbine shootings, the federally orchestrated Waco massacre, the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, the Oklahoma City bombing, the 9/11 World Trade Center destruction, and now this massacre of twenty little children.  In a culture such as ours, a society this massive, this complicated, and this crazy, such events are to be expected.  Today's tragedy is by no means the end of it.


----------



## MikeK (Dec 14, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Would all these gun laws have prevented this?


Have the drug laws prevented access to drugs?  

Did prohibition prevent access to booze?  

There are between 200 million and 300 million guns at large in America.  Nobody knows for sure how many.  If a Draconian law was passed to forbid possession of guns, even if it were enforced by door-to-door searches, only the law-abiding would surrender their guns.  The lawless and the crazies would remain armed and the beat would go on.

So don't strain your brain thinking of how to prevent such tragedies as today's.  Because the toothpaste is out of the tube.


----------



## MikeK (Dec 15, 2012)

jan said:


> I balled my eyes out today as I watched all this transpire on CNN.  Raw?  You bet!!!  Decent citizens and children are being slaughtered...and we apparently are allowing it to happen!
> 
> Yeah...I'm raw!  And everyone SHOULD be raw given what's happened today!
> 
> ...


Even if it were possible to confine everyone in the U.S. who manifests some mental disorder, which is physically impossible, there still would be hundreds of thousands whose madness is not yet fully developed or simply is not readily detectable.  The unfortunate reality is there are a lot of really crazy people in America.


----------



## jan (Dec 15, 2012)

MikeK said:


> jan said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...



Point taken...but let's not over simplify this by blaming it all on Christmas either.  The next thing ya know someone will say the shooter killed his Mom and went on this rampage because Mommy wasn't getting him a new bicycle for Christmas!

The Christmas thing is just too pat of an answer for this rampage...let's look deeper.


----------



## jan (Dec 15, 2012)

MikeK said:


> jan said:
> 
> 
> > Dreamy said:
> ...



I'm sorry, but that's just not acceptable.  No.


----------



## jan (Dec 15, 2012)

MikeK said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Would all these gun laws have prevented this?
> ...



Place guards at every door to the public schools...I think the school budgets just went up substantially.  If we can't protect our children at least as well as we try to protect our airports we don't deserve our share of the oxygen on this planet!  Put in the x-ray machines...whatever is necessary...just do it!


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## eots (Dec 15, 2012)

jan said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



how about we try not drugging the children first..


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## beagle9 (Dec 15, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


Not about the money anymore, and it shouldn't be..... It should be about getting a better system in place quickly for these vulnerable areas that we have, especially at these schools.. Then we can work on the bad culture problem in America.. We have to many kids living in single parent households anymore, and why is that ? We have to high an unemployment rate among the young adults in this nation anymore, and why is that ? We have to many kids on drugs anymore, and why is that ? We have way to much rebellion anymore, and why is that ? We have no future outlook anymore, and why is that ? Add to this if you like..


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## Noomi (Dec 15, 2012)

Its about time America toughened its gun laws. Its ten days til Xmas, and instead of sitting around, opening presents with their kids, these parents will be at a fucking funeral, burying their beloved children.

I am sick of this shit, this talk of 'If we ban guns, only criminals will have guns'. Well, maybe they can be trusted with a gun, because regular citizens sure can't!
The majority of mass shootings were committed by people who had no prior criminal record, so I conclude that guns in the hands of regular citizens are far more dangerous than they are in the hands of criminals.

Do something, seriously. How many more people have to die? How man more innocent families torn apart before you selfish fuckers get your act together and try to save lives?


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

Shut up you moron. One responsible gun owner could have prevented most, if not all, of these deaths.

Puke. You don't protect children by making sure nobody can defend them, but then I doubt you're highly motivated to protect children anyway.


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## Noomi (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Shut up you moron. One responsible gun owner could have prevented most, if not all, of these deaths.
> 
> Puke. You don't protect children by making sure nobody can defend them, but then I doubt you're highly motivated to protect children anyway.



Oh fuck off. Stop this shit about 'one armed person could have prevented this', Bull fucking shit. You Yanks are not the heroes you pretend to be.


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

"In fact, some mass shootings have been stopped by armed citizens. Though  press accounts downplayed it, the 2002 shooting at Appalachian Law  School was stopped when a student retrieved a gun from his car and  confronted the shooter. Likewise, Pearl, Miss., school shooter Luke  Woodham was stopped when the school's vice principal took a .45 from his  truck and ran to the scene. In February's Utah mall shooting, it was an  off-duty police officer who happened to be on the scene and carrying a  gun."
Read more: People don't stop killers. People with guns do - NY Daily News
​

People don't stop killers. People with guns do - NY Daily News


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

Noomi said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Shut up you moron. One responsible gun owner could have prevented most, if not all, of these deaths.
> ...




Moron.

"[SIZE=+1]K: Well, the survey mostly generated results pretty   consistent with those of a dozen previous surveys which generally indicates   that defensive use of guns is pretty common and probably more common than   criminal uses of guns. This survey went beyond previous ones in that it   provided detail about how often people who had used a gun had done so.   We asked people was the gun used defensively in the past five years and   if so how many times did that happen and we asked details about what exactly   happened. We nailed down that each use being reported was a bona fide defensive   use against a human being in connection with a crime where there was an   actual confrontation between victim and offender. Previous surveys were   a little hazy on the details of exactly what was being reported as a defensive   gun use. It wasn't, for example, clear that the respondents weren't reporting   investigating a suspicious noise in their back yard with a gun where there   was, in fact, nobody there. Our results ended up indicating, depending   on which figures you prefer to use, anywhere from 800,000 on up to 2.4,   2.5 million defensive uses of guns against human beings -- not against   animals -- by civilians each year."

[SIZE=+1]http://rense.com/general76/univ.htm[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]


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## Noomi (Dec 15, 2012)

Even if you were all armed, you would still have mass shootings. People would still die.

Here's a pop quiz for you - since 1996, how many mass shootings have their been in Australia?

Wait, I'll be nice and give you the answer...ZERO. Yep, zero. Care to find out why? Oh yeah - because we aren't fucking obsessed with guns like you lot are.


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

"The attack began at 8:36 p.m. local time and ended about twenty minutes  later. According to survivor Mijael Mendelson, the attack lasted about  14 minutes. Mendelson reports he saw the time before the shooting  started and shortly after knowing the gunman was dead.[1] The attacker was stopped by two Israel Defense Forces  officers who were former Mercaz HaRav students themselves: Yitzchak  Dadon and Captain David Shapira, who both dealt the fatal blow to the  attacker with their personal firearms."

Mercaz HaRav massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

Good, stay in Australia. We're in America.


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## Noomi (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Good, stay in Australia. We're in America.



At least I can go about my daily business and not be in fear of being gunned down.

What if it was your family? Wouldn't you want tougher laws on guns then?
I think so many people would change their minds if only they experienced the pain first hand.


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## Noomi (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> "The attack began at 8:36 p.m. local time and ended about twenty minutes  later. According to survivor Mijael Mendelson, the attack lasted about  14 minutes. Mendelson reports he saw the time before the shooting  started and shortly after knowing the gunman was dead.[1] The attacker was stopped by two Israel Defense Forces  officers who were former Mercaz HaRav students themselves: Yitzchak  Dadon and Captain David Shapira, who both dealt the fatal blow to the  attacker with their personal firearms."
> 
> Mercaz HaRav massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



That is one person - yet people still died before these two men fired the shot that killed the gunman. That is my point - you can arm the teachers, train them to protect the students, but chances are, multiple people are going to die before that teacher even gets to fire their gun.

How does that save lives?


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

If it was my family, and I was there, and I was armed.... I'd fucking wade in there and kill whoever was shooting at my kids. I wouldn't cower on the sidewalk, waiting for the cops to arrive.

If it was my family, I would be eternally grateful to whatever person in the school took out the shooter before he had killed 26 people. An entire class. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. .... and nobody could do a fucking thing.


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

Noomi said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > "The attack began at 8:36 p.m. local time and ended about twenty minutes  later. According to survivor Mijael Mendelson, the attack lasted about  14 minutes. Mendelson reports he saw the time before the shooting  started and shortly after knowing the gunman was dead.[1] The attacker was stopped by two Israel Defense Forces  officers who were former Mercaz HaRav students themselves: Yitzchak  Dadon and Captain David Shapira, who both dealt the fatal blow to the  attacker with their personal firearms."
> ...



Within 6 minutes, these guys were in the school. Within 14 they'd killed the guy. 

Before he could kill anymore.

You're too stupid to converse with. Go back to dreaming about abortions and ways to prevent vicious child abusers from doing jail time. This is beyond your pay grade, and you're offensive.


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## HUGGY (Dec 15, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Its about time America toughened its gun laws. Its ten days til Xmas, and instead of sitting around, opening presents with their kids, these parents will be at a fucking funeral, burying their beloved children.
> 
> I am sick of this shit, this talk of 'If we ban guns, only criminals will have guns'. Well, maybe they can be trusted with a gun, because regular citizens sure can't!
> The majority of mass shootings were committed by people who had no prior criminal record, so I conclude that guns in the hands of regular citizens are far more dangerous than they are in the hands of criminals.
> ...



That is total nonsense.  I almost EVERY case of mentally unbalanced shooters as today and the Batman guy in Aurora and the kid in Oregon.. there were obvious signs of trouble with people that had an idea something was wrong and did nothing to intervene.  The guy in Colorado had been seeing a phychiatrist who just blew him off without warning the police.  The Oregon kid's mother was on TV and she acted like she had no idea.. but she hadn't even talked to her son in 4 years ..meaning he left home at 16.  Obviously there was trouble at home.  Then his "friends" knew he was gettiong rid of all of his possessions to go to Hawaii??  They all thought his Hawaii story was bullshit but nobody said anything.  If someone is clearly losing control of their ability to make rational judgements and those near him or her just blow it off then they are partially responsible for bad outcomes.

There is something that has crept into the American culture that allows..even promotes not taking responsibility for ANYTHING.  When I was a kid speed limits on roads and highways meant something. Now EVERYONE drives at least ten miles over ..and it is EXPECTED.  We cry like little bitches when something shocking happens but take no responsibility as we live our lives to intervene when someone is in trouble.  Then it's all about how NOBODY saw it coming...ya right.


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## Noomi (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> If it was my family, and I was there, and I was armed.... I'd fucking wade in there and kill whoever was shooting at my kids. I wouldn't cower on the sidewalk, waiting for the cops to arrive.
> 
> If it was my family, I would be eternally grateful to whatever person in the school took out the shooter before he had killed 26 people. An entire class. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. .... and nobody could do a fucking thing.



But you couldn't just jump up and shoot without knowing where the gunman was, could you? You would have to protect yourself - in order to allow you to get close enough to get a decent shot- and even then, there is the chance you could miss and shoot someone else.

It would be great to have one person take out the killer - but like I said, chances are, the killer would have shot and killed multiple people already, before he was shot dead. Maybe you would prevent him/her from killing one more person, but you just wouldn't know. You have no way of knowing that your firing a fatal shot would have prevented more innocent people from dying.


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

Noomi, you're an idiot. Just shut up. Your putrid vapidity makes me sick to my stomach, and I don't think I'm the only one.


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

And you come across as a craven coward, besides.


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## Noomi (Dec 15, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> > Its about time America toughened its gun laws. Its ten days til Xmas, and instead of sitting around, opening presents with their kids, these parents will be at a fucking funeral, burying their beloved children.
> ...



Then make it a law that people have to report stuff like this. Counselors shouldn't be blowing off their patients, for one thing. Make it a law so that people have to report things like this.
I dunno - just do something. Anything has to be better than turning on the TV to hear about yet another shooting, right?


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## Noomi (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Noomi, you're an idiot. Just shut up. Your putrid vapidity makes me sick to my stomach, and I don't think I'm the only one.



I am not blinded by my love of guns. I live in a country where gun laws are very tough, so I think I have a different opinion to most on this board, and you are not even answering my questions - probably because you can't.


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## Koios (Dec 15, 2012)

Noomi said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > Noomi said:
> ...



Right. 

Reading a book might be a nice alternative.


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

oh my god.

People DO report it. In this country, you cannot be locked up just for being mentally ill. You have to show that you are, without a doubt, a danger to yourself and to others.

People saying "I just think he's going to lose it some day" is not enough to get people locked up. Liberals changed all those laws long ago. It's EXTREMELY hard to get people locked up before they hurt someone.

As in, pretty much impossible.


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

Noomi said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Noomi, you're an idiot. Just shut up. Your putrid vapidity makes me sick to my stomach, and I don't think I'm the only one.
> ...



No, you're blinded by your stupidity, your arrogance, the teachings of your death cultist heroes, and above all by your unbelievable ignorance.

I don't think I've run into a person who is so consistently ignorant on every single topic since skydancer. And even she seemed to have some common sense when it came to dogs.


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## Noomi (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> oh my god.
> 
> People DO report it. In this country, you cannot be locked up just for being mentally ill. You have to show that you are, without a doubt, a danger to yourself and to others.
> 
> ...



Its the same over here, and like the US, our laws regarding this need to change as well. 
I am not saying to lock people up if they are mentally ill - if they request to be locked up, then do it, but if not, prevent them from buying a gun.
If they try to buy one, do a background check, if they have a mental illness then shouldn't this be noted somewhere?


----------



## HUGGY (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> oh my god.
> 
> People DO report it. In this country, you cannot be locked up just for being mentally ill. You have to show that you are, without a doubt, a danger to yourself and to others.
> 
> ...



Politicizing this is irresponsible.


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## Noomi (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> No, you're blinded by your stupidity, your arrogance, the teachings of your death cultist heroes, and above all by your unbelievable ignorance.
> 
> I don't think I've run into a person who is so consistently ignorant on every single topic since skydancer. And even she seemed to have some common sense when it came to dogs.



You don't know everything, even though you think you do.


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

I know an idiot when I see one.


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## Noomi (Dec 15, 2012)

These teachers were the real heroes - protecting their students by locking them in a closet while the gunman stood outside.

School shooting hero: Music teacher who saved 15 children by hiding them in closet | News.com.au

If they had a gun, they would have been putting the lives of their students at risk if they attempted to fire it. As a result of their actions, these students are alive today.


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## HUGGY (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> oh my god.
> 
> People DO report it. In this country, you cannot be locked up just for being mentally ill. You have to show that you are, without a doubt, a danger to yourself and to others.
> 
> ...



People that commit any assortment of crimes of a sexual nature have to notify authorities of their whereabouts .  I see no problem in having someone that is suspected of being a danger because of mental issues at the very least approached and "field tested" as a way of intervening.  I don't think we need to arrest everyone that is a little "odd".  I do think in light of the danger of doing nothing an interview of someone suspected of being a danger to themselves or others may be a good idea.  The obvious danger would be that some of these people might go off on the interviewer.  These people should be highly trained to immediately recognize a dangerous personality and work in pairs to make the interview as safe for the investigator as possible.   Police probably wouldn't be very good at it because their training isn't as strong in this area as someone who specialized would be.  Cops are just too intimidating anyway.  Someone less threatening would probably do a better job at ferreting out the truly at risk individuals.  If a dangerous person was identified then a court order could be phoned in and the person taken to a facility for a more thorough evaluation could be facilitated.


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## eots (Dec 15, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > oh my god.
> ...



thats completely mental..totally unrealistic


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## eots (Dec 15, 2012)

There is no profile..that would not see massive amounts of people labeled  threats or at risk by an army of insane government  social workers..with some pretend degree in some pretend_ science_


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

I don't think this 20 year old had committed any sexual crimes. And you can't throw people in the loony bin just because someone thinks they might be dangerous in the future. That's what we used to do, which led to men having their wives tossed in at the drop of a hat, and children dumped when they were in the way...


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

Noomi said:


> These teachers were the real heroes - protecting their students by locking them in a closet while the gunman stood outside.
> 
> School shooting hero: Music teacher who saved 15 children by hiding them in closet | News.com.au
> 
> If they had a gun, they would have been putting the lives of their students at risk if they attempted to fire it. As a result of their actions, these students are alive today.



Good grief.

Thank GOD nobody had a GUN or there might really have been some carnage!

Nitwit.


----------



## Indofred (Dec 15, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.



I have decided the OP is absolutely correct and teachers should be armed to the fucking teeth.
However, you'll have to arm the 5 year old kids as well in case one of the bastard teachers goes totally ape shit and starts popping caps into the kids.


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## HUGGY (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> I don't think this 20 year old had committed any sexual crimes. And you can't throw people in the loony bin just because someone thinks they might be dangerous in the future. That's what we used to do, which led to men having their wives tossed in at the drop of a hat, and children dumped when they were in the way...



I didn't say anything of the kind.  You are missrepresenting everything I suggested.  The sexual offender tracking was just an example.  I am trying to give you some credit for intelligence and you trip all over yourself seemingly on purpose to not get a thing I said.  I never suggested putting anyone away for twenty years.  What I am getting at is not some kind of incarceration.  It is a method of seeking out people at risk as gently as possible and doing a hell of a lot of sorting out of all suspected mentally ill folks , people that are not a problem from the handfull of those that are a genuine risk.  A skillfull interviewer should be able to figure out rather quickly and painlessly those that should never have a gun in their possession or until they can demonstrate they are no longer a threat to themselves or others.  A database could be assembled to be checked during the waiting period.  The family could be notified that the individual poses a risk if in possession of a firearm.  I see no problem in just doing a better job trying to figure out who would be a likely threat in possession of firearms. No one would be incarcerated simply on the word of another or even from an interview. This isn't some kinda witch hunt where anyone can just accuse someone of being unstable and based on that they would be prohibited from owning firearms.  What it would do is require at least a brief interview to assess if the accused individual is a risk.  We have simply got to develope a method to keep firearms out of the hands of the emotionally disturbed and mentally ill.


----------



## KissMy (Dec 15, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



We grew up that way as well. But my sister pulled a loaded gun on me & pulled the trigger when I was about 7 years old. Lesson to all, lock your guns up except the one you have on you when kids or unstable people are around including family. I have several guns & they are ALWAYS locked away & hidden unless I am carrying. It takes a lot of self restraint to be a responsible gun carrier / owner. Sadly there are many people around who have none. I do my part to keep my weapons out of their hands even if they are family or friends.


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## NoNukes (Dec 15, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



They are safe when they come home because I keep them away from the likes of you.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 15, 2012)

eots said:


> There is no profile..that would not see massive amounts of people labeled  threats or at risk by an army of insane government  social workers..with some pretend degree in some pretend_ science_



We have a winner


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## candycorn (Dec 15, 2012)

jan said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > jan said:
> ...



Just in time to save the citizens of the state the $0.25 per year it costs them to have state hospitals in may cases.  

On another note, I'm not sure that penal colonies in theory are that bad of an idea. In practice, they were horrible.


----------



## candycorn (Dec 15, 2012)

jan said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



More guns equals more gun violence.  Again, look at other advanced societies that have the same access to violence that we have in the forms of books, movies, video games, television, etc...  Why are they not as violent?  It's our 2nd amendment.  It's as simple as that. 

As for "give them something", something along the lines of flashbangs would be just as effective in disabling an intruder, eliminate the need for pinpoint accuracy because you're not firing a weapon at the intruder, and require much less training and have much less lasting effect of trauma since there is a less chance of a bloody engagement.  It's also unlikely that an intruder will have the proper visual dampers on as a countermeasure.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 15, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



How about the ones who are truly dangerous, to start with?   If you want to go into a whole speil about mental illness and how we don't treat it properly in this country, we can.  

But this is a discussion abuot guns.  And how crazy People + Guns = disaster.


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 15, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Guy, you can try to spin this all day, but the typical Gun-Nut argument that all we need is more guns in our schools and shopping malls got blown away here.  

Obviously, this woman had four guns.  yet she could not stop her murderous son from killing her and she actually made it EASIER for him to kill a lot of other people. Because she allowed for the few sensible laws we did have (don't sell guns to folks under 21 in CT, don't let crazy people buy guns) to be circumvented by having them herself.  

But let's go into crazy land and say, Gee, what if (if BigReb had a brain, he wouldn't be a gun nut.) 

What if one of the other teachers had been armed.  

Okay.  

Murderer- Armed, cocked and locked. Been planning this for a while. Is a murderous crazy person who has no compunction about killing kids.  

Teacher- Not planning on dealing with anything more serious today than little Billy throwing a tantrum.  Probably hesitant to shoot another human being, as most sane people (even cops and soldiers) are.  

You tell me who is going to get bullets downrange first.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 15, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> [
> 
> Thanks for the grammar correction. Having said that I think our discussion is done. You came into this thread misrepresenting the facts to suit your point of view. If that is the level you're going to start off with then there really is no point.
> 
> One bullet could have saved dozens. That point can't be argued. End of discussion



I find it amusing the EX CONVICT is telling me the problem is that we just don't have enough guns out there.  

We have more guns than any country in the world.  And we are the only country in the world that has several of these incidents a year, with NO ONE actually ever stopping the shooting.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 15, 2012)

Time to get tough in a tough world.

Armed security at every school, and, yes, that means taxes.

Tougher screening of those who can own and bear arms.  The 2nd, while clothed in power, is not absolute.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 15, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Joe B in one post you said mass shooting are as common now as they have always been
> I say you are a liar
> Notice the rise in mass shootings and what legislation became law during that rise?



Funny, looking at this graph, I would say it went down after the Brady bill and Assault Weapons ban were passed, and sprung back up again after Bush let the latter expire.  

But I suspect these "spikes" (Not really) have more to do with economic conditions than legislation  Of course, in bad times, you are going to have more people flipping out.


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 15, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > I'm surprised cons would trust teachers with guns since they believe all teacher are liberals.
> ...



These are the same teachers they don't trust to teach kids about sex education or evolution, but they want them cocked and locked.


----------



## Synthaholic (Dec 15, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



With Republicans, it's always about the money.

True story!


----------



## Synthaholic (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Shut up you moron. *One responsible gun owner could have prevented most, if not all, of these deaths.
> *
> Puke. You don't protect children by making sure nobody can defend them, but then I doubt you're highly motivated to protect children anyway.



Why do you equate somebody plunking down $500 for a gun with bravery?


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## Synthaholic (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> If it was my family, and I was there, and I was armed.... I'd fucking wade in there and kill whoever was shooting at my kids. I wouldn't cower on the sidewalk, waiting for the cops to arrive.
> 
> If it was my family, I would be eternally grateful to whatever person in the school took out the shooter before he had killed 26 people. An entire class. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. .... and nobody could do a fucking thing.


You talk a lot of shit.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 15, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > If it was my family, and I was there, and I was armed.... I'd fucking wade in there and kill whoever was shooting at my kids. I wouldn't cower on the sidewalk, waiting for the cops to arrive.
> ...



She talks like a parent.


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## Synthaholic (Dec 15, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...


No, she talks like Rambo.


----------



## bodecea (Dec 15, 2012)

As a parent, armed with a gun, I would have TRIED to take him down.  But with kids all around, who knows if I would have hesitated.   But the reality is...look at the adults dead in that school.  I would GUARANTEE you, every one of them died trying to protect kids or trying to take him down.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 15, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



As every parent would in a situation like this. Do you have children?


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 15, 2012)

About personal arms: the vets and police on the board would have a pretty good idea of what to do and would stand a chance of putting down a person like this.  The chance also depends on the shooter's armor and type of firepower.

Most other civilians would end up being killed, or killing the wrong person, or shoot themselves in the foot.


----------



## Synthaholic (Dec 15, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...


I don't know if I am in favor of you being able to own a firearm, but I am definitely in favor of you having your voting rights restored, even though you will vote for wingnuts.

Yet it's the Republican Party who wants to continue to deny you that right.  

Ironic, isn't it?


----------



## Synthaholic (Dec 15, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...


I am saying that it's easy to talk tough from the comfort and safety of your house, anonymously, on the interwebz.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 15, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



While target shooting and hunting for turkey and quail would be fun I can live with the situation I put myself in. As to voting, I got that right returned after I completed my parole.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 15, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Joe B in one post you said mass shooting are as common now as they have always been
> ...





> Funny, looking at this graph, I would say it went down after the Brady bill and Assault Weapons ban were passed, and sprung back up again after Bush let the latter expire.


What year did Clinton sign the assault weapons ban? and when was it repealed?
September 13, 1994-September 13, 2004 Anyone can look at the graph and know that you are a liar.


----------



## Synthaholic (Dec 15, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...


You're a lucky one.  There are many states where you would be denied your voting rights.

I think you should dig a little and see who restored your rights in your state, a Democratic or Republican legislature.  In Florida, it's Republicans who deny it.


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## Katzndogz (Dec 15, 2012)

They had the doors to the school locked.  There was a closed circuit television to show who was at the door being buzzed to get in.   Adam Lanza was not buzzed in.  He smashed the door.  Then he went to the administrative office and killed the principal and who ever else was there.    Had there been some available weapons in the school, there was plenty of time to stop Lanza before he ever got to that classroom.

No matter how crazy the worst of the crazies are, they know better than to start their crap at a police station, gun range or gun store.   They know to go to places where there is no one armed to stop them.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 15, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



You talk like an idiot that needs the government to protect them.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 15, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> They had the doors to the school locked.  There was a closed circuit television to show who was at the door being buzzed to get in.   Adam Lanza was not buzzed in.  He smashed the door.  Then he went to the administrative office and killed the principal and who ever else was there.    Had there been some available weapons in the school, there was plenty of time to stop Lanza before he ever got to that classroom.
> 
> No matter how crazy the worst of the crazies are, they know better than to start their crap at a police station, gun range or gun store.   They know to go to places where there is no one armed to stop them.



Exactly


----------



## Katzndogz (Dec 15, 2012)

There was a theater shooting in Aurora Colorado not South Central Los Angeles.   The gang bangers don't go anywhere in LA without being armed.   No matter how crazy the insane are, they know enough to keep their insanity in areas least likely to be able to fight back.


----------



## Annie (Dec 15, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> They had the doors to the school locked.  There was a closed circuit television to show who was at the door being buzzed to get in.   Adam Lanza was not buzzed in.  He smashed the door.  Then he went to the administrative office and killed the principal and who ever else was there.    Had there been some available weapons in the school, there was plenty of time to stop Lanza before he ever got to that classroom.
> 
> No matter how crazy the worst of the crazies are, they know better than to start their crap at a police station, gun range or gun store.   They know to go to places where there is no one armed to stop them.



You posted what I was about to. Here's a link:

Victims' bodies identified as Connecticut town seeks answers - U.S. News

The police say he was not given access to the school, he got through by shooting or smashing glass next to the front door. In all the schools I've been in, that glass is reinforced.

The only thing that would have stopped him was someone who could take him out at this point. So, are armed guards the answer? Armed front office personnel?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 15, 2012)

Annie said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > They had the doors to the school locked.  There was a closed circuit television to show who was at the door being buzzed to get in.   Adam Lanza was not buzzed in.  He smashed the door.  Then he went to the administrative office and killed the principal and who ever else was there.    Had there been some available weapons in the school, there was plenty of time to stop Lanza before he ever got to that classroom.
> ...


Not many glass windows are being placed in new schools now. ant the glass in the doors have wire mash within the glass.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 15, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Its about time America toughened its gun laws. Its ten days til Xmas, and instead of sitting around, opening presents with their kids, these parents will be at a fucking funeral, burying their beloved children.
> 
> I am sick of this shit, this talk of 'If we ban guns, only criminals will have guns'. Well, maybe they can be trusted with a gun, because regular citizens sure can't!
> The majority of mass shootings were committed by people who had no prior criminal record, so I conclude that guns in the hands of regular citizens are far more dangerous than they are in the hands of criminals.
> ...


I'll take this post as a quick gut recaction to something that would cause such a reaction as this (a punch right in the gut), but if we dealt with all of our issues in this way, we would have lost our nation, liberties and freedoms long ago.. This rational you have at this point is reactionary, and it is coming right off of your most fragil senses in regards to your love for all life, and how precious life really is. We all take for granite our love for each other as a nation, and we do a dis-service to ourselves and our nation when we ignore the truths of these matters. This is a post (imho) that is not one of sound mind and of sound thought, but is one of quick reaction (i.e. your not thinking it through at the moment), and so it is duly noted as such.. We will take the name calling as reactionary also, so everything is ok for you and is understood by us, because many will react in these ways, but our nation must stand for freedom, liberty and *justice* for all, and we must take back this nation from the idiots who have taken it over, and have caused these things in which we are seeing more and more of.


----------



## Annie (Dec 15, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



Exactly what I meant about 'reinforced' with the mesh. I'm not sure what you mean about 'new schools' and absence of windows, not something I've seen except those horrible schools built in the '70's with open classrooms.'


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## beagle9 (Dec 15, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> There was a theater shooting in Aurora Colorado not South Central Los Angeles.   The gang bangers don't go anywhere in LA without being armed.   No matter how crazy the insane are, they know enough to keep their insanity in areas least likely to be able to fight back.


In a town down in South Carolina, some older teens being initiated into a gang there, had to go out and slash up some innocents with their knives, so they went into a middle school and slashed up some teachers there, and this I was told by a friend that lives in that town.. It's getting worse and worse or can it even get any worse after this school shooting ? Of course it's to politcally correct or the ACLU will come a running if anyone tries to get swift and righteous justice against these idiots whom do these sorts of things. When I say swift and righteous justice, I mean proper justice in a court of law, and justice that matches these crimes not some slap on the wrist. I wonder how the wild west was ever tamed, because no one these days has the stomach for taming anything anymore it seems. This is what happens when the people become fearful of the law, and then the law can't or won't do it's job as seen in so many of the cases that have been brought to justice properly, leaving the people to pay the ultimate price in it all afterwards. The innocent people have become just fish in a barrel now..


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 15, 2012)

Annie said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Annie said:
> ...


Those horrible schools in the seventies with those open class rooms weren't so bad after all now were they ? At least they didn't have killings going on at them, and everything was more peaceful back then, so what happened ? We have some of the most modern day schools and systems now, but the soul is not right in America, so it matters not how modern we look anymore or how secure we try and make ourselves, because if the soul of America is not right, then we are finised as a nation. Germany with all it's might and technology in which went way beyond their time back then, had a serious soul problem, and so they parished as a nation under the rubble of war.


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## beagle9 (Dec 15, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> They had the doors to the school locked.  There was a closed circuit television to show who was at the door being buzzed to get in.   Adam Lanza was not buzzed in.  He smashed the door.  Then he went to the administrative office and killed the principal and who ever else was there.    Had there been some available weapons in the school, there was plenty of time to stop Lanza before he ever got to that classroom.
> 
> No matter how crazy the worst of the crazies are, they know better than to start their crap at a police station, gun range or gun store.   They know to go to places where there is no one armed to stop them.


You know it is interesting to me that in a place that the news has touted, and testimony has been given about it, where as it was this quaint little wholesome innocent town where everybody knew one another, and everything was peaceful and just a little payton place, yet this school was locked down like a prison by the way it is being talked about on here (locked doors, buzzed in, video surveilence, balistics glass and etc.) ?

Was this town as wholesome and peaceful as people think it was, and did they have alot of trouble here in the past maybe, that was not reported on in the nationwide news? I mean what caused them to take the measures that they had taken in security up to that point ? Was the towns soul going bad all around them, and so they had tried to seperate themselves from the bad, by installing every security measure that they could find in that town ?


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 15, 2012)

Name calling, beagle9?  No, tough times, son, so the words have to be right.  I belong to NRA.  I own weapons.  I carry conceal.  Yet some of us in the NRA are nuts.  Many of those put the rest of us at risk.   The sensible ones won't tolerate nonsense and will put the nuts down if necessary.This country belongs to We the People, not you individually.  You will work with the rest of us, and not Rambo around.  We won't tolerate nuts anymore than the school shooters.  Your 2nd rights are not absolute.  There is a way to do this without going Wild West.



beagle9 said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> > Its about time America toughened its gun laws. Its ten days til Xmas, and instead of sitting around, opening presents with their kids, these parents will be at a fucking funeral, burying their beloved children.
> ...


----------



## Katzndogz (Dec 15, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



It's a laminate coating on the glass itself.   Very easy and not too expensive.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 15, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Name calling, beagle9?  No, tough times, son, so the words have to be right.  I belong to NRA.  I own weapons.  I carry conceal.  Yet some of us in the NRA are nuts.  Many of those put the rest of us at risk.   The sensible ones won't tolerate nonsense and will put the nuts down if necessary.This country belongs to We the People, not you individually.  You will work with the rest of us, and not Rambo around.  We won't tolerate nuts anymore than the school shooters.  Your 2nd rights are not absolute.  There is a way to do this without going Wild West.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jake Jake Jake, how about when you finally become true to us about who you really are, then you comment, until then you will get no more response from me if you do comment, and I promise you this..


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 15, 2012)

Get over it, beagle9.  I don't have to justify myself at all.  Your way is not going to happen.  The sane portion of America is going forward into the 21st century.  If you don't want to, your business, but I suggest you stop reading me, because I always will tell you right so you won't get left.


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 15, 2012)

And yet Israeli citizens are well armed as are the Swiss, and nobody is showing up at their schools to gun down children.  In our previous generations probably most Americans owned firearms and older school children had them in their vehicles at school because they went hunting early that morning or planned to do so after school.  But nobody worried about anybody going berserk with a weapon at school.  It isn't a poblem with guns.  It is a problem with the culture.


----------



## Swagger (Dec 15, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> And yet Israeli citizens are well armed as are the Swiss, and nobody is showing up at their schools to gun down children.  In our previous generations probably most Americans owned firearms and older school children had them in their vehicles at school because they went hunting early that morning or planned to do so after school.  But nobody worried about anybody going berserk with a weapon at school.  It isn't a poblem with guns. * It is a problem with the culture.*



Kerchiinngg!!!


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> 
> I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.



I made this same suggestion in another thread.  As much as I am normally against raising taxes, I for one would have no problem with a small increase in mine to pay for setting up a first-response team in each school, sending the teachers in that team to any and all necessary weapons classes, and providing for them to qualify on a regular basis with their weapon.

These are TEACHERS, for God's sake.  The left is constantly telling us what everyday saints, on a par with Mother Theresa, they are, and I will be perfectly happy to stipulate that the vast majority of them are good, decent people who genuinely care for their students and want to protect them.  God knows, we're already trusting them with the safety and well-being of the most precious beings on Earth, our beloved children.  So is it too much of a stretch to trust them to protect the safety and well-being of those children with a gun in hand?

Personally, I admire teachers who die to shield their students, but I prefer a solution that ends with the gunman dead on the classroom floor, rather than the teacher.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> > Another school shooting. Time to arm the teachers?
> 
> 
> 
> No, its time not to grasp for idiotic solutions.



You mean like trying to disarm everyone in a nation of 300 million-plus people except for police and military?  THAT kind of idiotic solution?

I see nothing idiotic about having armed adults protecting schools full of children when they've already been so overwhelmingly proven to be popular targets for crazy gunmen.  As I keep saying, if I already trust them with my children, why in the Hell wouldn't I trust them with a gun?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

KissMy said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Another school shooting. Time to arm the teachers?
> ...



A safe?  Seriously?  You want them fumbling around with the damned lock while someone's blowing away students?

No, you have them get qualified for concealed-carry, and then have the guns on their person at all times, so that they're ready and able to respond the instant trouble shows up.

I have no problem trusting teachers to keep their guns out of the hands of students without locking them up, any more than I have a problem trusting cops to keep criminals' hands off their guns while carrying them.  And I'm much less worried about some hypothetical situation where a student MIGHT get hurt with a teacher's gun than the manifestly real and apparently common situation of some jackwagon shooting up a school.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



Perhaps because the only agenda HE'S advancing is finding an actual, realistic solution to the problem, instead of merely using it to try to move toward some idealized political dreamworld.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > So far one SMALL CHILD is deceased.
> ...



Really?  Why not?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

Sallow said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > I'm surprised cons would trust teachers with guns since they believe all teacher are liberals.
> ...



Yes, and I'm sure that criminals will respect that, because they're such law-abiding citizens.  

In the REAL world, meanwhile, we look for solutions based on how the world works, rather than how we wish it worked.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Dreamy said:
> ...



I'm curious to know how knowing "who the shooter was" is going to change the fact that shooting him before he shot a bunch of other people would be a viable solution.


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 15, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> And yet Israeli citizens are well armed as are the Swiss, and nobody is showing up at their schools to gun down children.  In our previous generations probably most Americans owned firearms and older school children had them in their vehicles at school because they went hunting early that morning or planned to do so after school.  But nobody worried about anybody going berserk with a weapon at school.  It isn't a poblem with guns.  It is a problem with the culture.
> 
> ]



So you are saying we would be safer if we were a racist police state run by religious loons?  

Seriousy?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> ...



Nice try, loser, but conservatives have no problem with individual teachers as a rule.  We have a problem with school district curriculums and policies, we have a problem with their union leaders and their agendas, and we have a problem with the handful of bad apples that inevitably turn up in any barrel.  The rank-and-file teachers, by and large, are just fine.


----------



## HUGGY (Dec 15, 2012)

I tell ya what... if this school yard shooting makes a lot of people scream gun control then just wait until some mentally unbalanced piece of shit sneaks a couple of uzi's and several big ass clips into a football stadium and cuts loose.  Then the nra will have no choice.  Let's see a hundred people get killed all on tv-like.   You know it is bound to happen.  If we don't at least make an effort at finding these whackos before they can play out thier insane fantasies the public will demand and get SOME serious gun control.

If such a thing happens on any given Sunday you can kiss assault weapons, big clips and maybe anything with more amunition in it than a 6 shot revolver Bye bye.

You know it's true.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 15, 2012)

Horse crap.  Bunch a smoke no fire.  Substantiate your comments.  And, no, America is less than socialistic than Switzerland.

What a bunch of far right radicals: ignorant, arrogant folks who know very little and most of that is wrong.



Swagger said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > And yet Israeli citizens are well armed as are the Swiss, and nobody is showing up at their schools to gun down children.  In our previous generations probably most Americans owned firearms and older school children had them in their vehicles at school because they went hunting early that morning or planned to do so after school.  But nobody worried about anybody going berserk with a weapon at school.  It isn't a poblem with guns. * It is a problem with the culture.*
> ...


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> > The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> ...



How would you like to address the issue of mental health?  I know you leftist dimwits like to pretend that it's brutally hard to get mental health care, but it's really not.  The problem is that some people choose to get a gun instead of getting a therapist.  How are you planning to fix that?


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 15, 2012)

Those teachers who want to arm need to do an annual psychological screen, testing, and training, plus the licensing and class requirements.

We are going to have screen all gun buyers: no exceptions.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 15, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > And yet Israeli citizens are well armed as are the Swiss, and nobody is showing up at their schools to gun down children.  In our previous generations probably most Americans owned firearms and older school children had them in their vehicles at school because they went hunting early that morning or planned to do so after school.  But nobody worried about anybody going berserk with a weapon at school.  It isn't a poblem with guns.  It is a problem with the culture.
> ...



Well, I allow for YOU reading something that idiotic into my post and that YOU probably should not be allowed anywhere near a firearm, but no, that was not what I was saying at all.


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 15, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



You were the one who posted a Zionist cow with a gun around kids like this was a good thing. 

(Forgetting that the Zionists treat half their population like animals and live in total fear of them.) 

The thing is, most private citizens don't need guns, and if we got rid of them, we'd all be better off for it.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Where this happened has some of the toughest gun laws in the country.
> ...



And I'll bet money that those next victims will be located in one of the "gun-free zones" so treasured by idiots like this.


----------



## squeeze berry (Dec 15, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



do you own any firearms?


----------



## Oddball (Dec 15, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > And yet Israeli citizens are well armed as are the Swiss, and nobody is showing up at their schools to gun down children.  In our previous generations probably most Americans owned firearms and older school children had them in their vehicles at school because they went hunting early that morning or planned to do so after school.  But nobody worried about anybody going berserk with a weapon at school.  It isn't a poblem with guns.  It is a problem with the culture.
> ...


Wow...Stretch Armstrong strikes again!


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

Plasmaball said:


> Sigh the simple solution is you lock all doors, and people need to be buzzed in. That will make it harder, but then you need a simple medal detector once inside. Mostly just for the adults coming in.
> 
> This would take funding, so not sure if people would be ok with it.
> 
> The easy fix to this is that there is no easy fix to this.



Yes, I'm looking for a solution that involves all law-abiding citizens living their entire lives in fear, huddled behind locked doors and metal detectors.  That beats the hell out of defending ourselves.


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 15, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



And the fact that that is what you took from my post is why I think it advisable to keep guns and all sharp implements away from you.


----------



## bayoubill (Dec 15, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



jes' curious... does having your head up your ass leave a permanent brown stain from the neck up...? or does it wash off when you take a bath...?


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 15, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> [
> 
> do you own any firearms?



Nope.  Don't need them, don't want them.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

LeftCoastVoter said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > MarcATL said:
> ...



Try getting your history from actual HISTORY, rather than from Hollywood.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/viewpoints/articles/0717hill0717.html?&wired

_In his book, Frontier Violence: Another Look, author W. Eugene Hollon, provides us with these astonishing facts:

 In Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge City, and Caldwell, for the years from 1870 to 1885, there were only 45 total homicides.  This equates to a rate of approximately 1 murder per 100,000 residents per year.
 In Abilene, supposedly one of the wildest of the cow towns, not a single person was killed in 1869 or 1870.

Zooming forward over a century to 2007, a quick look at Uniform Crime Report statistics shows us the following regarding the aforementioned gun control paradise cities of the east:

DC  183 Murders (31 per 100,000 residents)
New York  494 Murders (6 per 100,000 residents)
Baltimore  281 Murders (45 per 100,000 residents)
Newark  104 Murders (37 per 100,000 residents)_

Dispelling the myth of 'The Wild West' - Minneapolis gun rights | Examiner.com


----------



## Oddball (Dec 15, 2012)

Plasmaball said:


> Sigh the simple solution is you lock all doors, and people need to be buzzed in. That will make it harder, but then you need a simple medal detector once inside. Mostly just for the adults coming in.
> 
> This would take funding, so not sure if people would be ok with it.
> 
> The easy fix to this is that there is no easy fix to this.


The shooter shot out the window next to the door, making buzzing him in a dead letter.

And even if there was no window, that wouldn't preclude someone from shooting off the door latching mechanism.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 15, 2012)

The statements are wrong.  Anyone can look up the actual populations of the various communities, do the math, and realize that the author is either ignorant or lying.  For instance, Ellsworth in 1870 had a population of 458.  The other towns were similar.  Nobody killed in Abiline in 1870: that would surprise the Town Marshall who was killed in the line of duty that year.

Buncha crap by Cecilieminus2.  Nothing new there.  Radicals will lie.



Cecilie1200 said:


> LeftCoastVoter said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
> ...


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

OKTexas said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > TakeAStepBack said:
> ...



I tell you, if I owned a shopping mall or movie theater, the FIRST thing I would do is hire armed security guards.  The SECOND thing I would do is put up signs saying, "Gun owners are welcome to carry in this establishment".  Hell, I might offer discounts for customers with a firearm and a valid license for it.


----------



## bayoubill (Dec 15, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> TakeAStepBack said:
> 
> 
> > Ah, yes. The typical LOLberal knee jerk to having a shooting take place in victim zones.
> ...



I've read a lotta stuff on both sides of the issue these last several hours... 

and I gotta say... you are one sick fuck, my friend...


----------



## HUGGY (Dec 15, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...



Ya... then eventually there would be a shoot out that kills several people and your ass would be sued into oblivion.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > Dreamy said:
> ...



What, because shooting people is so difficult to do?  HE managed it pretty well.

Truth is, shooting rampages like this HAVE been stopped by armed civilians before.  The media just doesn't want to report it.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 15, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> And yet Israeli citizens are well armed as are the Swiss, and nobody is showing up at their schools to gun down children.  In our previous generations probably most Americans owned firearms and older school children had them in their vehicles at school because they went hunting early that morning or planned to do so after school.  But nobody worried about anybody going berserk with a weapon at school.  It isn't a poblem with guns.  It is a problem with the culture.


Well Americans don't have a militant identified group of people living right next door to them (walking distance), whom want all Israeli's dead, so the picture is not truly related to the total situation as found in America, but then again with us not knowing where these attacks could come from next, it could be germain to the situation now.. Someone said that this is the same as terrorism in this nation now, and yes I would agree with that also.. It is terrorism tactics and methods that are being used now, the only thing is, is that these are domestic born terrorist we are dealing with, in which is just as bad as foriegn born terrorist if not worse actually.


----------



## squeeze berry (Dec 15, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



now I know where to get some free stuff


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 15, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > squeeze berry said:
> ...



You mean not the welfare office where you normally get it?


----------



## squeeze berry (Dec 15, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



that made me chuckle there Josephine


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 15, 2012)

Plasmaball said:


> Truth is, shooting rampages like this HAVE been stopped by armed civilians before.  The media just doesn't want to report it.



Yes, and they don't hype it like they do the bad ones either, but maybe they should go back to hyping the good guy's a little more in the media than they do the bad guy's these days, it sure wouldn't hurt none... The devil's spirit is more in control as found within men now in this nation, and this is being found more than ever before in this nation, and we refuse to acknowledge this fact in America now, even though we see this right in front of our very own eyes on a daily basis now...Wake Up America...wow


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 15, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...



Yep.  Chicago has some of the most strict gun control laws in the country, but has one of the most violent record re gun crimes.   So they are in the process of letting citizens lawfully carry.  Will it make a difference?  If the gun control advocates are not successful in reversing the new law, it will be really interesting to watch.  Is the new law being so hotly contested because some fear it WILL significantly reduce gun crime?



> Within six months, lawful citizens in Chicago &#8211; the site of 2,364 shootings and 487 homicides so far this year &#8211; can carry concealed weapons in public for defense, the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals ruled Tuesday.
> Concealed weapons: Illinois's last-in-the-nation ban must go, US court rules - CSMonitor.com





> &#8220;Many defensive gun uses never make the news,&#8221; the report said. &#8220;After all, &#8216;Man Scares away Burglar, No Shots Fired&#8217; is not particularly newsworthy.&#8221;
> 
> Among the researchers&#8217; findings were 285 incidents involving concealed carry licenses, 154 instances involving defensive gun use by women, and 21 cases for minors and 201 for seniors. For specific crimes, 65 carjackings saw defensive gun usage, as did 25 rapes.
> The authors also said concealed carry policies on college campuses lead to a reduction in crime, using two Colorado schools as test cases. After the state enacted its concealed carry law in 2003, Colorado State University decided to allow students to carry concealed weapons while the University of Colorado prohibited them. The report found a 60 percent decrease in crime at Colorado State since 2004, while the University of Colorado saw a 35 percent increase during the same time period.
> ...





> BOILING SPRINGS, S.C. (AP) &#8212; A South Carolina sheriff is praising a man with a concealed weapons permit who helped disarm someone who kicked in the door of a church armed with a shotgun.
> Sheriff: Concealed Weapon Saves Church From Man Armed With Shotgun « CBS Charlotte





> Police say about 5:30 p.m. on Dec. 3, a man walked into Modern Nails at 2645 E. Second St. and asked a female employee if she wanted to buy some diamonds. The man walked toward the front desk area and the woman replied that she had no money to buy diamonds.
> A witness said the man then reached into his coat pocket and began to take out a silver-colored pistol.
> 
> At that moment, a woman who was getting her nails done reached into her purse and got her own firearm. Police say the man never fully raised the gun and left the building after seeing the customer had her weapon out.
> Casper Police: Nail salon customer packs heat, gunman leaves



Conversely, you have to hunt long and hard to find an instance of gun crime committed by anybody packing a visible weapon&#8212;legal in New Mexico for instance though few do&#8212;or anybody packing a legally licensed concealed weapon. 

But does anybody believe that 20 kindergarteners and 7 staff would be dead today at the Sandy Hook school if a half dozen or so teachers had weapons and were trained in how and when to use them?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 15, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > And yet Israeli citizens are well armed as are the Swiss, and nobody is showing up at their schools to gun down children.  In our previous generations probably most Americans owned firearms and older school children had them in their vehicles at school because they went hunting early that morning or planned to do so after school.  But nobody worried about anybody going berserk with a weapon at school.  It isn't a poblem with guns.  It is a problem with the culture.
> ...



We do have the Mexican drug cartels, just saying.


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## Gadawg73 (Dec 15, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > And yet Israeli citizens are well armed as are the Swiss, and nobody is showing up at their schools to gun down children.  In our previous generations probably most Americans owned firearms and older school children had them in their vehicles at school because they went hunting early that morning or planned to do so after school.  But nobody worried about anybody going berserk with a weapon at school.  It isn't a poblem with guns.  It is a problem with the culture.
> ...



We have an identified group that WANTS TO TAKE OUR PROPERTY.
What constitutes defense is not the issue.
We have a Constitutional right to defend ourselves and with guns. 
No matter the situation.


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## BallsBrunswick (Dec 15, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > OKTexas said:
> ...



Yeah, crossfire would've made the situation much better.


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## Oddball (Dec 15, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...


Hell, we have American drug gangs, shooting it out in the streets.


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## Gadawg73 (Dec 15, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> I tell ya what... if this school yard shooting makes a lot of people scream gun control then just wait until some mentally unbalanced piece of shit sneaks a couple of uzi's and several big ass clips into a football stadium and cuts loose.  Then the nra will have no choice.  Let's see a hundred people get killed all on tv-like.   You know it is bound to happen.  If we don't at least make an effort at finding these whackos before they can play out thier insane fantasies the public will demand and get SOME serious gun control.
> 
> If such a thing happens on any given Sunday you can kiss assault weapons, big clips and maybe anything with more amunition in it than a 6 shot revolver Bye bye.
> 
> You know it's true.



So no one used weapons in your days of smuggling?
Sure, right.


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## Oddball (Dec 15, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> Yeah, crossfire would've made the situation much better.


Would have had it occurred in the hallways or administrative offices, rather in a room full of unarmed children.


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## BallsBrunswick (Dec 15, 2012)

Oddball said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, crossfire would've made the situation much better.
> ...



Got any lottery numbers?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 15, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> I tell ya what... if this school yard shooting makes a lot of people scream gun control then just wait until some mentally unbalanced piece of shit sneaks a couple of uzi's and several big ass clips into a football stadium and cuts loose.  Then the nra will have no choice.  Let's see a hundred people get killed all on tv-like.   You know it is bound to happen.  If we don't at least make an effort at finding these whackos before they can play out thier insane fantasies the public will demand and get SOME serious gun control.
> 
> If such a thing happens on any given Sunday you can kiss assault weapons, big clips and maybe anything with more amunition in it than a 6 shot revolver Bye bye.
> 
> You know it's true.



Thing is none of the weapons used were the type you just mentioned.


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## Oddball (Dec 15, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > BallsBrunswick said:
> ...


Got any more spurious and specious arguments?


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## BallsBrunswick (Dec 15, 2012)

Oddball said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



Well since you seem to be pulling things out of your ass while claiming a mystic view of events, I just thought I'd try to be a capitalist and profit from your sorcery.


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## Oddball (Dec 15, 2012)

Whatever.

Your "point" was pointless, as any kind of crossfire would likely have ended in far fewer deaths than the slaughter of innocent unarmed people that in fact occurred.


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## beagle9 (Dec 15, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > OKTexas said:
> ...


If they would have had a few plain clothes officers or deputized volunteers with concealed carry permits, it may have stopped this cat when he shot the glass out and entered into the principles office, otherwise never to get beyond that point before hopefully being wounded badly enough, that he could have been taken into custody alive afterwards.


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## BallsBrunswick (Dec 15, 2012)

Oddball said:


> Whatever.
> 
> Your "point" was pointless, as any kind of crossfire would likely have ended in far fewer deaths than the slaughter that in fact occurred.



And just as easily some retard who fancies himself as Rambo could've added to the body count through crossfire and stupidity. Also that same idiot could ice a kid through an accidental discharge just having the gun in the classroom. Your crystal ball isn't the only one in the world.


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## Oddball (Dec 15, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > Whatever.
> ...


Wow...That's some nice straw man you built there, to distract from the silliness of your original "point".


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## BallsBrunswick (Dec 15, 2012)

Oddball said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



I'm sorry you lost this argument by me pointing out that you have moronic logic but the point stands, crossfire in a classroom is stupid and you have a shitty crystal ball. Thank you for conceding though, now we can both move on. What did Fox News tell you to think about Unions? That's an oldie but goodie.


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## HUGGY (Dec 15, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > I tell ya what... if this school yard shooting makes a lot of people scream gun control then just wait until some mentally unbalanced piece of shit sneaks a couple of uzi's and several big ass clips into a football stadium and cuts loose.  Then the nra will have no choice.  Let's see a hundred people get killed all on tv-like.   You know it is bound to happen.  If we don't at least make an effort at finding these whackos before they can play out thier insane fantasies the public will demand and get SOME serious gun control.
> ...



We just used "paper...rock ...scissors" to settle disputes.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 15, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Do you honestly think a possible stray bullet aimed at the murderer would in any way be worse than 20 little kids and 7 of their teachers/administrators gunned down in cold blood?


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## BallsBrunswick (Dec 15, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



That stray bullet could've resulted in 21 little kids and 7 of their teachers/administrators gunned down in cold blood.


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## Oddball (Dec 15, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > BallsBrunswick said:
> ...


Self-declarion of victory is the first indicator of a lost argument.

The likelihood of accidental shooting or a scene from a Schwarzenegger movie, with weapons in the hands of specifically trained school personnel, is on such a low order of probability as to make your comment absurd on its face.

But one thing is certain: Nutbags who've been shooting up schools full of unarmed people might think twice were the possibility that someone, anyone, might shoot back.


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## HUGGY (Dec 15, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > I tell ya what... if this school yard shooting makes a lot of people scream gun control then just wait until some mentally unbalanced piece of shit sneaks a couple of uzi's and several big ass clips into a football stadium and cuts loose.  Then the nra will have no choice.  Let's see a hundred people get killed all on tv-like.   You know it is bound to happen.  If we don't at least make an effort at finding these whackos before they can play out thier insane fantasies the public will demand and get SOME serious gun control.
> ...



I don't have a crystal ball or anything but when the powers that be are forced to do something legislatively my guess is that based on priors they will go after assault weapons and big clips just for starters.

If the government is pushed into a corner over gun violence you can bet dollars to donuts that reason won't be a factor in what they end up doing.


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## BallsBrunswick (Dec 15, 2012)

Oddball said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



Well you obviously conceded because you had nothing else to say. And again you're just making assumptions based on your views when the reality could just as easily be the opposite. And I'm sure a lunatic who's going to shoot up a school has the mental wherewithal to think twice about citizens concealed packing...


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## squeeze berry (Dec 15, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > BallsBrunswick said:
> ...



did I read what I just read ?


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## BallsBrunswick (Dec 15, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



I don't know, can you read?


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## squeeze berry (Dec 15, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



what do you mean by " go after" ?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 15, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



You're wanting to ban weapons already ruled by the courts protected by the second amendment, and were not used in the mass murder.
But I will tell youy right now any attempt to ban fire arms will be the start of a civil war.


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## Swagger (Dec 15, 2012)

Forgive me if this has already been asked, but do you think there'd be less people applying for teaching positions if applicants knew they'd be required to have a gun in the classroom or be required to attend firearms training as part of their formal training?


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## squeeze berry (Dec 15, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > BallsBrunswick said:
> ...



I don't read or speak idiot fluently like you do


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## Oddball (Dec 15, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > BallsBrunswick said:
> ...


I have plenty to say...I just don't expect it to permeate the thick skulls of imbeciles, who try to float the notion that a shootout in the hallways that could halt a raving lunatic, would be a less desirable option to the outright slaughter of a few dozen completely unarmed and helpless victims.

But you g'ead and try to make that imbecilic argument...It amuses me.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 15, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



I think you did.  There is no explanation for the true fanatic.  Which is probably why we seem to be having more of these unthinkable horrible kinds of crimes.


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## squeeze berry (Dec 15, 2012)

Swagger said:


> Forgive me if this has already been asked, but do you think there'd be less people applying for teaching positions if applicants knew they'd be required to have a gun in the classroom or be required to attend firearms training as part of their formal training?



not that it's ever going to happen but.....

I would envision that it would be optional and not a requirement


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## BallsBrunswick (Dec 15, 2012)

Oddball said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



How do you know the shootout would occur in the hallway? How do you know the teacher isn't one of the brain dead on this site such as yourself who talk a big game but could just as easily blow their head off or blow a kid away in such an incident. How do you know the teacher doesn't blow a little kid's head off in an accidental discharge just from having the gun at school? You're only allowing for one scenario that fits your world view which is frankly stupid.


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 15, 2012)

How many people killed since that "Zero Tolerance" law passed?
Our children deserve to be protected; not used as targets in a "gun-free" free-fire zone by any crazy that wants them.


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## beagle9 (Dec 15, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > BallsBrunswick said:
> ...


You sound like a nut job now for real, and so I guess because you are losing the argument between you two, now you are getting desperate ?


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## BallsBrunswick (Dec 15, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Yeah more bullets in a shootout is always the safest course of action.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 15, 2012)

Swagger said:


> Forgive me if this has already been asked, but do you think there'd be less people applying for teaching positions if applicants knew they'd be required to have a gun in the classroom or be required to attend firearms training as part of their formal training?



There probably would be some people who so fear or loathe guns that such a requirement would prompt them to go into a different line of work.  But I think most would be willing to do it, and some would really welcome such a policy.

But I don't want a policy that requires everybody to be armed and proficient, at least outside of law enforcement and/or the military, any more than I want a requirement that everybody learn to drive or know how to rewire an electrical circuit or whatever.   Such requirements take away our freedom of choice as much as would laws that would prohibit us from doing such things.

But I am now convinced that we do need a policy of arming qualified, trained teachers in our schools, and that would be a huge deterrant for such mayhem as happened yesterday, or if it does not deter, at least gives us the means to stop or reduce the carnage.


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > BallsBrunswick said:
> ...



So..on the off chance that a teacher might harm a child in friendly fire, you opt for no protection from psychotics who are gunning for children.

Got it. Hopefully you'll be the next one in the line of fire, and not an innocent child who needs protection.


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## BallsBrunswick (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



Just look at the law of percentages. We have maybe one school shooting a year. Yet if we arm teachers that's literally hundreds of thousands of guns in the classroom. Invariably there's going to be more accidents and more dead kids than your retarded notion of the lunch lady going all Rambo and stopping the once in a coon's age school shooting. And that's even assuming the lunch lady doesn't shoot herself or an innocent in the process.

And frankly, I don't care if you live or die because you as a human being don't matter.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Dec 15, 2012)

Swagger said:


> Forgive me if this has already been asked, but do you think there'd be less people applying for teaching positions if applicants knew they'd be required to have a gun in the classroom or be required to attend firearms training as part of their formal training?



Arming teachers is idiocy. 

Period.


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

Fuck off and die. Period.


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## squeeze berry (Dec 15, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > BallsBrunswick said:
> ...



what I would do is have the piece unloaded and the magazine or speed loader in my pocket.

You libs are so ignorant when it comes to firearms and are too arrogant to admit it.


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

Long and short of it...progressives don't mind when children die.

You will never find them support any policy that will potentially save the lives of children.

Ever.


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## BallsBrunswick (Dec 15, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



Well that's super for you, how do we know Agnus the Lunch Lady or Bill the Math Teacher who's in the middle of his second divorce will be intelligent enough to do that? The world doesn't revolve around or mimic your actions.



koshergrl said:


> Fuck off and die. Period.



You're on your period? That explains some things I guess. But still appreciate you being attracted to me even if I don't care if you live or die.


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## KissMy (Dec 15, 2012)

A gun free zone is a magnet for the mass murdering shooters. Just like rental cars with logo stickers on them became magnets in Florida when they passed CCW laws. The Criminals figured only the tourist were un-armed. After the 1987 Florida CCW law passed an increasing number of tourists, most of them foreign, were victims of carjackings there. Because tourists in well-marked rental cars were common carjacking victims, Florida passed legislation in 1993 (F.S.A. § 320.0601) that outlawed company logos and license plates that made rental and leased cars obvious.

All we have to do is make everyone believe that teachers are armed & the schools will suddenly be safer. Only a few teachers actually need to be armed & schools are no longer a target.


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## Cowman (Dec 15, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> 
> I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.



Okay folks, on top of your duties of educating these children so they can develop skills needed to usher them into life as an adult, you are also a security guard tasked with facing off against armed assailants.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Long and short of it...progressives don't mind when children die.
> 
> You will never find them support any policy that will potentially save the lives of children.
> 
> Ever.



Well that might be a little extreme.  But they do seem to get their shorts in a wad much more over school kids being exposed to "under God" in the Pledge or possibly hearing one two many traditional Christmas carols in the winter concert and the possibility that a responsible teacher might have a firearm in his/her possession than they worry about mass murderers gunning down a whole classroom of kindergarten kids.


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 15, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > BallsBrunswick said:
> ...



Idotic attempt at logic. By that logic we should disarm our military because of possible friendly fire. If armed those who try to stop these shootings with their bare hands might have a chance to do so and live. You would deny them their right to self-defence, and our children their right to be defended for no better than *your* irrational fears. Shame on you!


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## BallsBrunswick (Dec 15, 2012)

9thIDdoc said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



 By me saying I think it's dumb to have guns in the classroom you think I want the military to be disarmed? And then you say I have idiotic logic. Why don't you let the adults handle this conversation.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

Flopper said:


> This year there has been a bad year for student shooting with about 60 shootings.  I think we need to keep things in prospective.   There are nearly 100 million students in schools in the US.  Arming teachers would be insane.
> 
> School shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Why?  What've you got against school teachers?


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## skookerasbil (Dec 15, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> 
> I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.




I usually agree with you Grampa but not in this case. Protection of the children in the schools should be the only thing we are talking about today, but it should be done by specially trained law enforcement professionals and there should be at least 2 in each school. It should be federally funded and start Monday morning. The whole program could have been funded just from the waste of 1/2 a billion dollars on Solyndra.


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## Oddball (Dec 15, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > BallsBrunswick said:
> ...


He was making an analogy not being literal, you meathead.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 15, 2012)

Cowman said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> ...



It's a natural reaction to defend yourself unless you are less than a man. So why wouldn't someone want to be on equal footing with a person who has nothing but killing on their mind?


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## BallsBrunswick (Dec 15, 2012)

Oddball said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> > 9thIDdoc said:
> ...



It's not my fault he has muddled thinking and expresses himself poorly.


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> 
> I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.



I hate to say this, but there are teachers out there that I think are the last people in the world that should have guns around children.  I think most teachers would be more than capable of having a gun in the room and nothing ever happening, but do you want to risk that your grandchild's teacher is not the one that "snaps" next?  

Kids can be pretty hard on teachers and push them to the limit and you want to put a gun in their reach at the crucial moment?  If you ask me, you need to think that through more.

Immie


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 15, 2012)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Swagger said:
> 
> 
> > Forgive me if this has already been asked, but do you think there'd be less people applying for teaching positions if applicants knew they'd be required to have a gun in the classroom or be required to attend firearms training as part of their formal training?
> ...



*Bullshit*

Period


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## Swagger (Dec 15, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Swagger said:
> 
> 
> > Forgive me if this has already been asked, but do you think there'd be less people applying for teaching positions if applicants knew they'd be required to have a gun in the classroom or be required to attend firearms training as part of their formal training?
> ...



I should've made myself clearer. Although I accept that there are a great many out there who loathe and hate weapons of any description (I'm not among them), and as such would give them pause for thought in considering teach as a profession if it meant they'd come into contact with armed personnel on a daily basis, I was thinking more along the lines of those who may object to the potentially negative impact the open presence of weapons may have on the learning environment of young and impressionable children. They may think that children's innocence should be protected, especially in a learning environment where the presence of weapons could become a very negative psychological distraction.

I'm undecided on this particular catch 22. On the one hand I think - and this may come as a surprise coming from someone who lives in a country where an unhealthy paranoia towards fireamrs prevails - people should have the right to bear arms, and a consequence of that belief means that inccidents of his nature are bound to occur. But on the other hand I'd be rather sceptical on having armed personnel on school grounds who openly carry weapons, if open carry were the preferred policy, which, for legals reasons, leads me to assume would be the case on the grounds of it [weapons] being a potentially negative intrusion upon the learning environment.

Do you see where I'm coming from?


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## Oddball (Dec 15, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > BallsBrunswick said:
> ...


What is your fault is that you're dumb as a brick if you can't understand that he was clearly using an analogy.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> ...



Police officers receive extensive background checks and psychological evaluation before they are issued a firearm.  There would be no problem with doing the same with any teachers who volunteered to be armed while on duty.

The firearms should be safely secured so that the teacher can get to them quickly but the students cannot.  Any teacher who took a secured firearm out of its hiding place for any reason other than such an emergency as happened yesterday would of course be subject to immediate firing.

So to address your concern, there is no reason to think teachers are likely to be any more mentally unbalanced than professional security people.  And I would think the risk to my child would be much less with a weapon in the hands of his/her teacher than it would be with a crazed gunman loose in the school and no means of stopping him.


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## squeeze berry (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> ...




kids might be more respectful to a teacher that has an open carry


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 15, 2012)

And you will lose on the first day.



bigrebnc1775 said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


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## Oddball (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> ...


Why wouldn't teachers be subject to the same kinds of screening processes that the general public is?

In fact, it's perfectly and validly arguable that a teacher with a weapon around a bunch of unarmed (you'd hope) children, would and should be held to the highest mental,  training and safety standards.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 15, 2012)

Spurious logic.  Denver proved that.  Some schools already have armed officers.  That does not stop shootings.  If a deranged killer is on the loose, he will go where he wants, whether it be a theatre or a school.



KissMy said:


> A gun free zone is a magnet for the mass murdering shooters. Just like rental cars with logo stickers on them became magnets in Florida when they passed CCW laws. The Criminals figured only the tourist were un-armed. After the 1987 Florida CCW law passed an increasing number of tourists, most of them foreign, were victims of carjackings there. Because tourists in well-marked rental cars were common carjacking victims, Florida passed legislation in 1993 (F.S.A. § 320.0601) that outlawed company logos and license plates that made rental and leased cars obvious.
> 
> All we have to do is make everyone believe that teachers are armed & the schools will suddenly be safer. Only a few teachers actually need to be armed & schools are no longer a target.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 15, 2012)

False analogy.  The military accepts friendly fire as a real event and trains for it.  Over and over.  Civilians don't do that.



9thIDdoc said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 15, 2012)

He was misusing logical analogy as you are misdefining what it is.



Oddball said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> > 9thIDdoc said:
> ...


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## Foxfyre (Dec 15, 2012)

Swagger said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Swagger said:
> ...



I think I do though if we were having coffee this afternoon, I might explore it more in depth with you.      But you do raise an interesting visual here.  Would armed guards on premises have a negative effect on school kids?   I honestly don't know. I don't know whether having schools on perpetual lockdown and extreme caution about those allowed to enter the school has a negative effect on school kids.   I do know that I highly resent that terrorists of whatever type or stripe are allowed to make us so paranoid and so restrict our freedoms and often inconvenience us in ways that would have been unthinkable just 15 or 20 years ago.

John Lott, Jr., one of the foremost 'experts' on this subject has some interesting perspectives and I recommend his book.  Most Israeli teachers and even some of the students are armed and as a result, all attempted terrorist activities in Israeli schools have ended badly for the terrorist, and while all injuries could not be averted, they have been greatly minimized.  And Israeli children don't seem to be unduly traumatized by the presence of guns in their schools.

I still would rather arm a number of teachers or give them access to protection and have the terrorists know that such condition exists than think one or two armed guards could provide an equal blanket of security.  Maybe do both?

http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2008/01/armed-teachers-stop-terrorist-attack-in.html


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Many, if not most people, who have guns are trained on how to use them and how to treat them safely.  Would it surprise you to find out that Adam Lanza was trained in how to use them safely?  It would not surprise me at all.  From what I have heard, people who knew him are shocked that he would have done this.  He simply snapped!

As to whether or not teachers would be anymore mentally unbalanced than professional security people, does it matter?  You don't think professional security people can simply snap? 

And as to the final bit about your child being safer with a teacher than a crazed gunman... well, first the chances of the teacher actually being able to stop him... remember, the guns are locked up and in this case I understand it was two classes in one room... how do you expect the teacher to get to the "gun cabinet", unlock the cabinet, prepare the weapon to fire (especially since the chances are very great that they would be required to keep the ammunition in a separate location) and shoot the assailant before he kills all the students and the teacher?  Follow that up with the fact that a gun in the "home" school in this case, is more likely to hurt or kill a loved one than an intruder and I think you are opening up the floodgates to disaster rather than protecting the children.

Immie


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > OKTexas said:
> ...



No, I think the lunatic would have found himself a nice shopping mall in which to stage the grand finale to his life instead.


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



There is that!  

However, I was no terror, but I was no angel either.  I don't think as a kid, I would have even considered that as a problem.  Remember, kids think that they are immortal.  Also, I don't think we were talking about open carry... like that would ever pass!

Immie


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## eflatminor (Dec 15, 2012)

Sallow said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> > > Another school shooting. Time to arm the teachers?
> ...



We have over 16$ TRILLION in debt.

Left wing solution?  We need to spend more.

Astounding.

On the other hand, the only way to stop a lunatic/criminal illegally using a firearm is with ...wait for it...another firearm!  Not so astounding, just logical.

Of course, we could take the UK or Australian route and confiscate civilian firearms but unfortunately, that only caused violent and gun crime to skyrocket.  

So, what's your solution?


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Twenty-seven people are dead, most of them children.  You're going to have to explain to me how you think the situation was improved by everyone in the school being unarmed.

"The kids are dead, but by God, at least they were all killed by the lunatic gunman!"


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## Oddball (Dec 15, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> He was misusing logical analogy as you are misdefining what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, I'm reading the analogy exactly right....And it's spot on.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



So you devise a system that keeps the weapon away from the kids but the teacher can get to and utilize quickly.   It wouldn't be rocket science.  I can't believe that American technology is so rusty they couldn't figure out how to do it.   But yesterday, I can't imagine any of us would not have wholeheartedly supported any teacher who managed to gun down the gunman before he murdered all those kids.


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Three words... "Child Proof Caps", or is it two words  "Child-proof caps"? Kids can open most easier than adults!  

Immie


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



More importantly, HE WOULD HAVE KNOWN that there were armed people in the school, and he'd have gone to play out the last violent, bloody scene of his life somewhere else.

And yes, I would prefer that he hadn't shot up any place at all, but since that apparently wasn't an option, I would at least like to take schools off that list of "Possible Places to Shoot People" that violent crazies all seem to have.


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Sure, that teacher would have been a hero, but then chances are good that the teacher in question would never have accomplished the heroic deeds you speak of without getting him/herself killed and maybe others.

I don't see your scenario as having a snowball's chance in Hell of happening.  The guy didn't walk up to the room, knock on the door, say, "excuse me, I am stepping out and in 35 seconds I will return and kill all the children and teachers in the room".  Unfortunately, I suspect those poor children were dead before one of the teachers could even have made it to her desk let alone find her keys to unlock the drawer in which the gun would have been stored.

Immie


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > Whatever.
> ...



You will excuse me, I hope, if I am less afraid of some hypothetical teacher "who thinks he's Rambo adding to the body count" than I am of the very NOT-hypothetical crazy gunman shooting up a school because he knows everyone there is unarmed and helpless.  I'm not interested in what ANYONE'S crystal ball is throwing up about what MIGHT happen.  I'm concerned about what actually DID happen, and keeps happening.

Actually, I don't give a fart in a wind tunnel whether you excuse me or not, because you're an ass clown who's more interested in his kneejerk hatred of guns than he is in practical solutions for school safety.

And no, disarming all of America is NOT a practical solution.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Yes, he does.  He thinks the most important thing we need to protect against is some imaginary "teacher who thinks he's Rambo", rather than the very REAL crazed gunmen who keep shooting up our schools.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > BallsBrunswick said:
> ...



Of course, there's no way to know whether or not there would have even BEEN a "stray bullet".  We DO know, however, that there actually WERE twenty-seven bullets that no one was able to stop because ass clowns like you are too busy "protecting" against hypothetical stray bullets.

By your logic, the police should never be allowed to use THEIR guns to stop crazed gunmen, either, because someone MIGHT be hit by a "stray bullet" in the "crossfire".  What really matters is preventing the deadly crossfire!


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## squeeze berry (Dec 15, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Foxy

the technology is already there.

The firearm is kept unloaded with the speed loader or magazine in a different pocket. 

There are also thumb break holsters that make gun snatching much more difficult. 

Imaginine a kid snatching an unloaded gun and trying to fire it !


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

Swagger said:


> Forgive me if this has already been asked, but do you think there'd be less people applying for teaching positions if applicants knew they'd be required to have a gun in the classroom or be required to attend firearms training as part of their formal training?



Forgive me if I wasn't privy to whatever stupid conversation you had prior to posting, but who ever said ANYTHING about requiring all teachers to carry guns or undergo firearms training?


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 15, 2012)

_False analogy. The military accepts friendly fire as a real event and trains for it. Over and over. Civilians don't do that._

Wrong. Some do and there is no reason others can't. Firearms can and should begin in school


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## Foxfyre (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



According to the initial reports, this gunman emptied his magazine, stopped, RELOADED, and resumed shooting.  Do you honestly think he would have accomplished all those murders if others in the school had been armed?  Sure the gunman could have taken out the first teacher and then started on the kids.  In fact that is probably the way it happened.  But I guarantee you he wouldn't have killed them all in that classroom or done any damage anywhere else if teachers and administrators had been armed.  And the teacher in that classroom would have been ready and waiting after he heard the initial shots in the administrative offices.

I appreciate your concerns Immie, but I'll take my chances with the teacher any day of the week before I'll take my chances that a crazed gunman intent on murder will show any compassion of any kind.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

Cowman said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> ...



In case you missed it, you unspeakably vile piece of subhuman garbage, teachers are ALREADY being tasked with facing off against armed assailants.  And they're currently being asked to do it with no weapons of their own.

Why don't you try asking the teachers at Sandy Hook whether they would have preferred to be armed?  You know, the ones who lived through it.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

skookerasbil said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> ...



Where do you suppose we're going to come up with "specially-trained law enforcement professionals" in those numbers in that short an amount of time?  And why is it that you think only "law enforcement professionals" can be "specially trained"?  You talk about them as though you think they aren't regular people, drawn from the regular population . . . just like teachers are.  Why can't we just give teachers training in gun safety and handling firearms?  They're already IN the schools, in large numbers.


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 15, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Truth. Why not hire teachers with concealed carry training and permits. Even if they were _all_ required to have them it is unlikely more than a few would do so on any given day.
As has been said-it's not recket science and if a teacher is too dumb to learn how to handle and use a firearm safely he/she is too dumb to be teaching my kids anyway. Or driving a car for that matter.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> ...



Seems to me that if I can't trust a teacher with a gun, I shouldn't be trusting him or her with my child.

If you ask me, you need some therapy for this pathological belief that all people are one stress headache away from becoming mass murderers.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



Given that teachers manage not to "snap" and slap the shit out of annoying kids, I don't think they're any more likely to "snap" and shoot them.

But then, I don't go through life with the belief that everyone around me is a ticking time bomb I have to be terrified of, either.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



I am a parent of a 17-year-old and a 4-year-old.  I have to tell you that my safety concerns for them are all about the crazed gunmen I KNOW are shooting up schools than they are for some hypothetical "teacher who thinks he's Rambo and kills someone with a stray bullet", or "the teacher who tries to stop the gunman might get killed himself", or whatever other scenarios you and the others have imagined that could go wrong in the process of trying to protect my children from the . . . let me repeat this . . . CRAZED GUNMEN WHO ARE _DEFINITELY _SHOOTING UP SCHOOLS.

Only with liberals does the imaginary hypothesis require more defense against it than the real danger.

I haven't said a damned thing about "locking it in her desk", by the way.  MY belief is that we need to have a trained first-response team of teachers in every school who actually carry a weapon on their persons.

And no, I am also not concerned about the hypothetical possibility that a student might disarm the teacher and shoot up the place.  I'm still too busy being concerned about the VERY REAL CRAZED GUNMEN SHOOTING UP SCHOOLS.

Forgive me if my obsession with reality is tiresome to you.


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## squeeze berry (Dec 15, 2012)

teachers have already passed several background checks.

If they already own a gun they passed another check.

All that would be needed is the CCW license and the mandatory course to get the CCW. 

The school district may want to have the county sheriff office do another course as well and there is likely the continuing qualification course likely in the form of a workshop. 


In all honesty I would not want to carry a gun to work. If they offer the option, I will in good conscience , take the training

it's probably a moot point anyway. Don't see it happening.


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## squeeze berry (Dec 15, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



hold it

Time out

a 17 year old and a 4 year old ???


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## bodecea (Dec 15, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



This is an excellent idea.   Lets have all schools have armed teachers for that once in a decade crazed shooter.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 15, 2012)

9thIDdoc said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



We're almost on the same page here but not quite.  Again, I don't think a concealed carry permit or special training in the use of firearms should be a requisite in order to receive teacher certification.  But I know enough teachers who DO carry and others who I believe would be quite open to taking the requisite training and I think there would always be enough who would cherish the ability to defend themselves and the kids that such a system would work.


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## bodecea (Dec 15, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > squeeze berry said:
> ...



Again, an excellent idea.   Maybe parents would treat teachers with a little more respect at parent conference time.   

Teachers can even apply the "stand your ground" laws if parents get a little hostile.


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## KudoZ (Dec 15, 2012)

At least give them tazers.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



I also have a 23-year-old daughter, who has two children.  You had a point to make?


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## squeeze berry (Dec 15, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



that's quite a point spread

holy cow


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 15, 2012)

An old Manchu airborne knows BS when he smells it, and that is what you are shoveling, 9thIDdoc.  No, civilians don't do that: over and over.  It's not their life, their profession.

We need honest appraisal, clear thinking, and your statement below is neither.



9thIDdoc said:


> _False analogy. The military accepts friendly fire as a real event and trains for it. Over and over. Civilians don't do that._
> 
> Wrong. Some do and there is no reason others can't. Firearms can and should begin in school


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

I love the fact that people are acting as if we have to manage teachers carefully lest they kill our children, through stupidity or some crazy snapping behavior.

Fucking ridiculous.


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

I have a 27 year old, 26 year old, 10 year old and 9 year old.

Are we not supposed to have children spread out? my oldest was 17 when my youngest was born.


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## squeeze berry (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> I have a 27 year old, 26 year old, 10 year old and 9 year old.
> 
> Are we not supposed to have children spread out? my oldest was 17 when my youngest was born.



my question is what happened, or didn't happen, in those intervening 16 years?  

or should I just leave that up to my twisted imagination?


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > squeeze berry said:
> ...



When the birth control people say their products are "99% effective", they really, REALLY mean it.

And God seemed to think 40 wasn't too old to have a baby, even though I did.  

I will tell you, however, that he is the most beautiful, adorable, amusing child who has ever existed, and absolutely the light of his entire family's lives, including the 17-year-old brother, who does a lot of babysitting.

Anyone takes a gun into HIS school, they'd better not thinking killing themselves and going to Hell is going to be enough to save them from ME.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> I have a 27 year old, 26 year old, 10 year old and 9 year old.
> 
> Are we not supposed to have children spread out? my oldest was 17 when my youngest was born.



My oldest was 19 when her little brother was born, and has a child who is a year older than his Uncle Quinlan.    His little sister is a year younger than her Uncle Quinlan.

Funniest thing, though, is that my grandson is black, and my granddaughter and youngest son are both albino-pale blondes.  You should see the looks from people when we take them out together, as they try to work out the relationships.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 15, 2012)

eflatminor said:


> Of course, we could take the UK or Australian route and confiscate civilian firearms but unfortunately, that only caused violent and gun crime to skyrocket.
> 
> So, what's your solution?



58 Murders a Year by Firearms in Britain, 8,775 in US



> umber of Murders, United States, 2010: 12,996
> 
> Number of Murders by Firearms, US, 2010: 8,775
> 
> ...



Meanwhile in the land down under....

Gun deaths halved in past 10 years - www.theage.com.au



> The number of deaths caused by firearms dropped almost 50 per cent between 1991 and 2001, with the biggest yearly fall in deaths coming after the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.
> 
> Homicides dropped to 47 in 2001 from 84 in 1991, accidental deaths dropped to 18 from 29, while other forms of firearm deaths slipped to seven from 11.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > I have a 27 year old, 26 year old, 10 year old and 9 year old.
> ...



I took lots and lots of birth control, and hoped that when I turned forty and had a grandchild, we were done with that whole "childbearing" thing.  God had other ideas, and a demented sense of humor.


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## Samson (Dec 15, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



Increases in government spending haven't helped.

Wonder why.....



Maybe throwing money at every issue is not effective.....


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## Samson (Dec 15, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> > Of course, we could take the UK or Australian route and confiscate civilian firearms but unfortunately, that only caused violent and gun crime to skyrocket.
> ...



I wonder if you realize that the demographics of GB and the USA are not the same.

For example; guess what? GB doesn't border Mexico.


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## Samson (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> I love the fact that people are acting as if we have to manage teachers carefully lest they kill our children, through stupidity or some crazy snapping behavior.
> 
> Fucking ridiculous.



I like the idea that some would like to create another branch of federal government specifically dedicated to placing armed guards into every school in the USA, a la "Homeland security" at every airport.

I'm hoping to retire early, and I'll need the income as a member of the Education Security Department....$50 K/year. Federal Bennies, and Union Bargaining power should do the trick!


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > BallsBrunswick said:
> ...



Progressives feel that way about everybody.

That's why we should never listen to their so-called 'plans" to protect children. You don't believe they matter.


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## Moonglow (Dec 15, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> 
> I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.



I say yes also.


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## BallsBrunswick (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Three points. Number one, I'm not a progressive. Number two, it's amusing to me it took you so long up with this reply. Number three, I don't care if you personally live or die as you've proven with your comments here that you aren't worth anything and that you're just brainless cannon fodder.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 15, 2012)

Closing the state hospitals was not the answer.

Yes, sometimes spending money wisely is he answer.



Samson said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


----------



## eflatminor (Dec 15, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> > Of course, we could take the UK or Australian route and confiscate civilian firearms but unfortunately, that only caused violent and gun crime to skyrocket.
> ...



You miss the point entirely.  The point was that the more gun control, the more gun crime.  It's true in the UK and Australia, even after an outright ban.  

First, your UK stats are easily debunked.   



> Comparing crime rates between America and Britain is fundamentally flawed. In America, a gun crime is recorded as a gun crime. *In Britain, a crime is only recorded when there is a final disposition (a conviction). All unsolved gun crimes in Britain are not reported as gun crimes, grossly undercounting the amount of gun crime there*. To make matters worse, British law enforcement has been exposed for falsifying criminal reports to create falsely lower crime figures, in part to preserve tourism.



Secondly, your Australian stats includes suicides (deaths caused by firearms).  Rather slippery of you.  I'm more interested in people who hurt others.  

Further, when you reference the Australian statistics between 1991 and 2001, it means NOTHING.  Homicides and crime dropped in the US and just about every western culture country between those years.

Australia banned guns in 1996, NOT 1991.  From the inception of firearm confiscation to 2000, firearm-related murders were up 19%, armed robberies were up 69%, and home invasions were up 21%.  Oops.

Lastly, you still haven't answered the question.  What do you propose?  What is your solution that will prevent crazy motherfuckers and/or dumb thug criminals from doing crazy things with firearms?


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > BallsBrunswick said:
> ...



#1. You're lying.
#2. You view all people who don't agree with/aren't directly connected to you as without value.
#3. Progressives feel that way about everyone.


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 15, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> An old Manchu airborne knows BS when he smells it, and that is what you are shoveling, 9thIDdoc.  No, civilians don't do that: over and over.  It's not their life, their profession.
> 
> We need honest appraisal, clear thinking, and your statement below is neither.
> 
> ...



_No, civilians don't do that: over and over.  It's not their life, their profession._

Again: It ain't rocket science and one doesn't have to have the training of a Navy Seal to master basic gun handling and use. Where I live it is rare for a youngster to become a teenager without considerable firearms training and they are often successful deer hunters at 12-14.


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## BallsBrunswick (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



1. Bullshit
2. Bullshit
3. All anyone has to do is read your posts in Rubber Room to realize you are a useless old bitch who doesn't matter. Go to another of your white trash holiday parties and lose some weight. 

I do give you credit for at least being somewhat coherent today though.


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

Please continue with your plans to make sure loons can easily wipe out kindergartners in every school without undue interference. I like it when progressives expose their attachment to killing children.


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## BallsBrunswick (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Please continue with your plans to make sure loons can easily wipe out kindergartners in every school without undue interference. I like it when progressives expose their attachment to killing children.



Who are you even talking to?


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Please continue with your plans to make sure loons can easily wipe out kindergartners in every school without undue interference. I like it when progressives expose their attachment to killing children.
> ...



You don't need to play stupid, nobody doubts you are...


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## BallsBrunswick (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



What you're saying makes no sense. I realize you don't have a lot going in your life and you're probably popping xanax or some other psych drug to cope with the emptiness and boredom in your life but your grasp on reality is slipping as you're making crazy inferences that having nothing to do with the conversation.


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## Samson (Dec 15, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Closing the state hospitals was not the answer.
> 
> Yes, sometimes spending money wisely is he answer.
> 
> ...



Perhaps you should open your own state hospital.


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > BallsBrunswick said:
> ...



Uh, ok.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

BallsBrunswick <---- Another juvenile misogynistic leftist reduced to frothing, incoherent, raging meltdown.

My work here is done.  Time for a victory lap and a beer.

Oh, and "Balls":  erasing the spittle-flecked neg doesn't change the fact that you sent it, I saw it, and you lost.  And harassing me with personal messages won't make it better. 

Bye now, asshole.


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## HUGGY (Dec 15, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Rebabble.  If you are anything ...it is stupid.  Where did you read "I want" in anything I have said about the possibility that if these shooting sprees OR WORSE keep going that "I want" guns or clips taken out of the stores and arrests made when you buy something prohibited on line?

I have sugested several times that we at least try to do a better job figuring out who these cazy people are and make it very difficult for them to access weapons.


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



I disagree with you FF.  The way that I understand what happened is that it was over before anyone really had time to react.  The teachers in the room that the children were killed in would never have had a chance to get to their weapons and teachers in other rooms?  Well, I don't think they could possibly have reacted in time to have stopped the killings.  

In some cases where a shooter picks off one person at a time walking down a halway or something like that... yeah, maybe, but not when they go into a room and empty two magazines into 20 children and how many adults?  How long did that take?  Less than a minute, two at the max?  Even if the shooter killed two or three people before entering the room with his mother and the kids, the teachers in each of the rooms would have been responsible for their own students and they would have been preparing for the worse in their own classrooms.

Armed or not... no hero or heroine teacher was going to be able to come to the aid of those children.  None of them were Bruce Willis with a script written that would let them accomplish the impossible.

Immie


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

That's the most asinine thing I've ever heard. Of course they would have had time. Do you know how long it takes to shoot 28 people MULTIPLE times with a rifle? That's what we're talking about. 

The 2008 school shooting in Israel...2 armed men entered the building (coming off the street) 6 minutes into the shooting. It was over at 14 minutes. 

8 children shot.


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> That's the most asinine thing I've ever heard. Of course they would have had time. Do you know how long it takes to shoot 28 people MULTIPLE times with a rifle? That's what we're talking about.
> 
> The 2008 school shooting in Israel...2 armed men entered the building (coming off the street) 6 minutes into the shooting. It was over at 14 minutes.
> 
> 8 children shot.



Ah, yes, I forgot about you... you are the heroine that would save the world.  Thank you for your input.

In the meantime, the smart teachers were protecting their own students... but you would have 15 or so armed and inexperienced men and women roaming the halls of the school in the less than 10 minutes that the shootings occurred shooting everything in sight.  

Immie


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## beagle9 (Dec 15, 2012)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Swagger said:
> 
> 
> > Forgive me if this has already been asked, but do you think there'd be less people applying for teaching positions if applicants knew they'd be required to have a gun in the classroom or be required to attend firearms training as part of their formal training?
> ...


Why don't you allow a vote on that, it might surprise you what the teachers might want and what they don't want now... If they want it, then it is up to us to see that they get the right training for it.... If they don't want it, then it is up to us to get the alternative to it (plain clothes security officers), in which would work the job for them just as well.


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## beagle9 (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> ...


As with anything, you wouldn't put a gun into anyones hands like you imply here, but only into the hands of those who would or could qualify..


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > That's the most asinine thing I've ever heard. Of course they would have had time. Do you know how long it takes to shoot 28 people MULTIPLE times with a rifle? That's what we're talking about.
> ...


 inexperienced? of course you do realize they would be trained?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 15, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...


Dude give it a fucking rest you cannot write what you wrote and not be supportive of a gun ban.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 15, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > BallsBrunswick <---- Another juvenile misogynistic leftist reduced to frothing, incoherent, raging meltdown.
> ...



This is not the flame zone.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 15, 2012)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Swagger said:
> 
> 
> > Forgive me if this has already been asked, but do you think there'd be less people applying for teaching positions if applicants knew they'd be required to have a gun in the classroom or be required to attend firearms training as part of their formal training?
> ...


having gun free zones is even worse and anyone who supports them is a moron.


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > That's the most asinine thing I've ever heard. Of course they would have had time. Do you know how long it takes to shoot 28 people MULTIPLE times with a rifle? That's what we're talking about.
> ...



And I remember you...the apologist who supports abortion and pretty much every other progressive policy.

You don't have much faith in those brave, smart teachers. You really think they're so stupid they'd shoot each other instead of the shooter?

You morons deserve to be slaughtered. And eventually, you will be. Throw your guns away, by all means, and lay your necks upon the block.

But kindly keep your flabby, baby killing hands away from kids. You have no business dictating to parents and schools when they may, or may not, defend their children.


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



People can qualify to hit targets without a lot of training, a steady hand and good eyesight and a person is well on their way, but that doesn't mean that they are trained for combat.  Are you really thinking teachers should be trained for combat as well?

Sorry, I'm not opposed to trained officers being placed at schools, but I have a problem with 78 year old Mrs. K. Girl who should have retired 15 years ago, qualifying to carry a gun and roaming the halls of an elementary school with a .45 simply because she was capable of hitting the target a couple of times.

Immie


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



   You're the baby killer.

You fight to ban abortions knowing damned well that banning abortions won't save one life... but, by God you won the debate... in the meantime, 1 million more babies keep on dying every single year... bravo for KG.      You won the debate.  Good for you!!!! I'm so proud of you.

It has never been about saving children for you.  It has always been about winning the debate.   I think that makes you a psychopath.

Immie


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## HUGGY (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



Calling her participation in a thread "debate" is rather generous don't you think?


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

Uh huh.

It's really amazing that all the same people who argue that killing babies is a *right* and good for the world also argue that under no circumstances should we have armed guards protecting our children from crazed armed attackers.

Hmmmmm...


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...


I thought you were smarter than this. You do realize not all police officer's go through combat training. Especially those assigned to be at school's

cpsv.org | Center for the Prevention of School Violence


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

Also interesting that the same people who argue that under no circumstances should school personnel be allowed to arm themselves against attack, also argue that crazy people should be allowed to roam free, and prison should be about "rehabilitation" and "reintegration" into society.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



Discretion dictates that someone you just described would not be a candidate for any such program. 

Your hyperbole is utterly pointless.


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



So? Your solution is to arm more staff untrained for combat to elementary schools?  I thought you were smarter than that.

Immie


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## skookerasbil (Dec 15, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> Gun worship from the right is doing this





An obvious expert............only 65,000 posts........clearly a real networked person here!!!


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
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Did I miss something? police assigned to schools are not trained in combat tactics


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



Right!  Sure.

Couple things with that... I thought you were for the 2nd Amendment?  Now, you are for restricting Mrs K. Girl from arming herself when other teachers are armed on school property?

Second, I thought you were for smaller government.  I know you are conservative, but here you go ready to add more government control in regards to training teachers for combat duty and licensing them to carry weapons on school grounds.

Immie


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



You missed that you claimed they were not.  I only took your word for it.  Here let me point it out for you...



bigrebnc1775 said:


> You do realize not all police officer's go through combat training. Especially those assigned to be at school's



And yet, you now want to add untrained teachers and arm them to the mix?  What is wrong with you?

Immie


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

When did you determine everyone would be untrained?


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

In fact, I'd be fine with just allowing the teachers with permits to pack. Or keep a couple of weapons in a central location and train all the teachers to use them...and whoever gets there first is the one who takes care of business.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...


I never said they would be untrained. But you seem to think police officers that are assign to be at school have combat training.
Being trained to handle a firearm and police combat training is two totally different areas of training.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



First of all no teachers would be literally armed. The weapons would be kept under lock. Second of all there would be 0 need for govt training as there are plenty of private organization who would love the opportunity to teach basic fire arm skills. Thirdly your attempts to troll the thread with your pathetic hyperbole is just that....pathetic


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## Crackerjack (Dec 15, 2012)

NoNukes said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > NoNukes said:
> ...


You think I would harm children?  Nice.

Kindly fuck yourself, asshole.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 15, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Keeping the firearms locked up would not be a very good idea in my opinion. What happens if the first person shot is the one with the key?


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Exactly and that is my point.  You are not going to get teachers who are trained for combat unless maybe you hire ex-soldiers as teachers.

A teacher trained to fire a weapon but not trained in how to make that split second "friend or foe" decision can do a lot of harm in an assault situation.

Immie


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

Bullshit. Of course they can. This isn't *combat* we're talking about. It's taking out one, maybe 2, armed intruders who are mowing down people.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 15, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



Teachers CAN NOT be allowed to posses firearms on their persons. That is asking for future tragedies. Multiple lock boxes with digital passcode entry numbers that are know by all who are trained is sufficient. 

It never occured to me that someone would think I ment literally armed. That's beyond insane.


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## koshergrl (Dec 15, 2012)

You have to have multiple people with access to it.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Bullshit. Of course they can. This isn't *combat* we're talking about. It's taking out one, maybe 2, armed intruders who are mowing down people.



Personally, my mind is still boggling at the fact that the left thinks, "If you're not combat-trained like a soldier, it's better for you to stand there helplessly and be killed."

Really?  The left REALLY sees people as being that useless and pathetic and untrustworthy that it's better for them to DIE than be given a chance to save themselves and the children they're entrusted with?

I wonder if the teachers know what low esteem the people they keep aligning themselves with hold them in.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



You haven't comprehend what I said.
Police officers who are assigned to schools don't have combat training. Why would teachers have to have combat training when police officers at school aren't required to have it?


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



It seems you are incapable of having an intelligent discussion with people that disagree with you.  I was being honest with my questions yet you seem to be incapable of understanding that people disagree with you.  You are sounding more liberal with every post! 

So, now we are back to locking the weapons up... which is what I said in the first place and then your side said, "no they would be allowed to open carry".  In that case, locking them up, it would not have saved the lives of these children.  There would not have been time for the teachers in the classroom to have gotten to said weapons.

And even if in this case the kindergarten teachers had been able to get to their weapons, would the mother have fired on her son?  Who knows?  But every situation is different.  In some cases, maybe having armed teachers would save some lives, but maybe in others it would cost more lives.

Sorry, you are not man enough to hold a discussion with someone who does not agree with you.

Immie


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Well, first of all, those resource officers do have police training and many of them may also have prior combat training in the military or what have you.  You are talking about arming people with no real training at all and allowing them to roam the halls of school with those weapons or maybe it is only during an assault situation (a very stressful time) that you are willing to let them roam the halls armed.

Regardless of when you want to let them roam the halls armed, I am concerned that you are throwing gasoline on the fire to extinguish it.

Immie


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



Arguing with "people on my side" and then assigning me their position is bullshit. Then to call me not a man? 

Fuck off


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



I didn't say you were not a man.    I just said you were not man enough to hold a discussion with someone who disagrees with you.  

Immie


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

_First-grade teacher Kaitlin Roig, 29, heard the gunshots in Sandy Hook Elementary and got up, closed her classroom door, ushered her students into the class bathroom, and wedged a storage unit in front of the door.  When the police came to let her and her students out, she made them first slide their badges under the door to prove they were really cops, and not the gunman trying to trick her.

First grade teacher Vicki Soto, 27, tried to usher her students into a closet, thereby putting her body between them and the gunman, and was shot and killed.

Principal Dawn Hochsprung, 47, reportedly heard the gunshots and immediately jumped up and ran toward them.  She also reportedly was shot and killed while trying to lunge at the gunman.

Music teacher Maryrose Kristopik reportedly ushered her students into a closet and barricaded the door to her classroom as the gunman hammered on it.

An unnamed teacher pulled two boys out of the line of fire and into a classroom, saving both their lives.

The school's custodian allegedly ran down the hallway, warning everyone that there was a gunman in the school, which gave many teachers and students a chance to hide or get away._

These are the people the left thinks are too stupid, too hysterical, too incompetent, too untrustworthy to be allowed guns to protect the children.


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## alan1 (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...


Did Adam Lanza have some sort of "prior combat training in the military or what have you."?


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



I have had conversations with many people in this thread. The conversation has only gone south with trolls. You have done nothing in OUR conversation other than stupid anticdotes and played semantics with words. 

And as is my "pattern" we are done.


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## alan1 (Dec 15, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> _First-grade teacher Kaitlin Roig, 29, heard the gunshots in Sandy Hook Elementary and got up, closed her classroom door, ushered her students into the class bathroom, and wedged a storage unit in front of the door.  When the police came to let her and her students out, she made them first slide their badges under the door to prove they were really cops, and not the gunman trying to trick her.
> 
> First grade teacher Vicki Soto, 27, tried to usher her students into a closet, thereby putting her body between them and the gunman, and was shot and killed.
> 
> ...



Dawn Hochsprung was not allowed to carry a firearm on campus, yet she ran *towards* the sound of gunfire to protect children.
Bravery, valor, honor.
With the means to arm herself, perhaps fewer would be dead.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...


ok now we are getting some where 
In North Carolina to conceal carry you must be trained and the same firearms training is what the police get.
Hows that?


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## beagle9 (Dec 15, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> _First-grade teacher Kaitlin Roig, 29, heard the gunshots in Sandy Hook Elementary and got up, closed her classroom door, ushered her students into the class bathroom, and wedged a storage unit in front of the door.  When the police came to let her and her students out, she made them first slide their badges under the door to prove they were really cops, and not the gunman trying to trick her.
> 
> First grade teacher Vicki Soto, 27, tried to usher her students into a closet, thereby putting her body between them and the gunman, and was shot and killed.
> 
> ...


Yes, and I can see in these reports somewhere, that if someone would have had a weapon they could have stopped this situation before it had gone that far.. Question, do you reckon they have any more recent pic's of the gunman(?), because it apears they are using some old pic's that dipict this guy as a skinney weakling of a feller, instead of someone smart enough or strong enough to pull this off like he did.


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



All you have done since you returned to this conversation after I entered it is whine.  You have not disputed a single thing I said.  You have not presented one argument against what I said... you just keep whining.

Don't think it hurts my feelings that you can't have a discussion with people who don't agree with you.  I prefer to discuss issues with people that don't agree with me but don't make up "semantic" lies as you just did.  I don't need you to reinforce my beliefs.  I'd rather you prove me wrong, but so far that has not been the case.

Immie


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

alan1 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Please explain what that has to do with this discussion.

Immie


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > _First-grade teacher Kaitlin Roig, 29, heard the gunshots in Sandy Hook Elementary and got up, closed her classroom door, ushered her students into the class bathroom, and wedged a storage unit in front of the door.  When the police came to let her and her students out, she made them first slide their badges under the door to prove they were really cops, and not the gunman trying to trick her.
> ...



I don't think "skinny" and "smart" are mutually exclusive, and I'm not sure how much physical strength you think is required to do what he did.  Kinda one of the points of guns is that they level the playing field for people who AREN'T the biggest and the strongest.  Certainly, that's why WOMEN like them for self-defense.

As far as I can tell, he was a skinny 20-year-old kid.


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## alan1 (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



Yer words, you explain them.


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



That does not relieve my fear that you are putting teachers into positions that they are not qualified to be in.  

It does not relieve my fear that you are putting loaded weapons on school grounds and assuming that a student will not get their hands on one of those weapons and kill him or herself or other students.  

It does not relieve my fear that it is generally more likely that an innocent person gets killed or injured by a legal firearm in the home (in this case it would be a school) by accident than a crazy ________________ (insert the word Cecile used above) gets stopped from committing such heinous crimes.

I simply believe this is a bad idea.  

Immie


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 15, 2012)

alan1 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > alan1 said:
> ...



I thought it was pretty obvious. But then again look how he interpereted my posts...


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

alan1 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > alan1 said:
> ...



Irrelevant.  One need not have prior combat training in order to be a crazed maniac that kills 20 children and 7 adults indiscriminately.  

On the other hand, when it comes to allowing sane individuals to carry weapons on school grounds, I would think you would want them trained before you gave them a weapon and said, "take care of my children".

Immie


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



What bullshit.  You're posts since you started discussing this with me have been nothing but crying like a three year old.

Immie


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



I'd whether have a trained teacher with a gun on school grounds than a criminal intent on killing children.


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > alan1 said:
> ...





Grampa Murked U said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



My apologies on that last post.  I went back and looked. You made this post and I agree with you.  I had thought that was a post and that portion of the discussion was from BigReb, but I am mistaken, you have participated in this discussion.

For the record, I agree with you that Teachers CANNOt be allowed to possess firearms on their person and that is asking for future tragedies.  I completely agree with you.

As for locking up the firearms... first off, I don't think it would save lives.  But that would be for further discussion.

Immie


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



No one has suggested simply handing all the teachers guns and saying, "Have at."  But there's a wide, wide gulf between that and your strange notion that they should be "combat-trained".


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Wouldn't we all?  I know I would.

But that is not saying much.  Of course, we would all rather have our kids safe, but the risk of having a child killed by accident with a legal gun on campus would still be greater than the risk of a crazed gunman getting the child... albeit the difference in risk is shrinking.

Immie


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## Immanuel (Dec 15, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > alan1 said:
> ...



Sorry, I disagree with you.  I think it is literally f'ing foolish to arm someone half-assed trained in firearms on school grounds.  

Even if we are talking about the teachers only having access to the weapons in a defensive situation against an assault like what happened two days ago, we are talking about those teachers carrying weapons under a very stressful situation, i.e. the guy that walks around the corner in front of me could be the shooter... BAM!!! He's dead... oh wait, that was not the shooter, that was the janitor or worse yet, it was an innocent kid just trying to get away.  Or a teacher and her class hiding in the room during an attack blowing away the cop who passes by the window because she thought he was the crazed maniac.

I can't imagine how stressful those minutes would be.  

I think it is a terrible mistake to make and would lead to children being hurt or killed by well intentioned teachers.

Immie


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



How good an idea was it to have them completely unarmed?  Care to make any observations on how THAT worked out?

You'll have to excuse me yet again, but I'm just too busy shuddering in horror at the stories and pictures coming out of Sandy Hook to shudder in horror at whatever visions you might be having of the hypothetical "evils" of arming teachers.  

Gosh, never mind protecting students from the completely real and non-hypothetical mass murderers who are making a habit of turning our schools into their own private shooting galleries.  What we REALLY need to protect against is Immie's scary nightmares that a student MIGHT get a gun away from his teacher (who is obviously an incompetent, thoughtless dolt, but is nevertheless entrusted with our children) and hurt himself.  

I really hope the disdain with which I am viewing these nonsensical priorities is coming through completely.

Perhaps a dose of reality will relieve your fear that firearms in the home are more dangerous to the owner than they are protective.  Not really my job to make you informed, and REALLY not my job to advocate policy based on your unwillingness to inform yourself.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
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Really?  The risk would be greater?  Prove it, and I DON'T mean with your personal, fevered imaginings of "what could happen".

And while we're at it, let's hear YOUR brilliant plan for keeping our children safe while surrounding them with utterly unarmed and helpless caretakers, for fear that their caretakers MIGHT be crazy and dangerous, or thoughtless and incompetent, and either way utterly untrustworthy (but only with guns, not with the children themselves).


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



Y'know, I looked feverishly through my posts for the place where I specified, or even hinted at "half-assed trained" for the armed teachers.  Since this, in fact, appeared NOWHERE in any of my posts, stated or implied, and was therefore only attributed to me by you so that you could argue against it, I'm afraid that I'm going to have to ask you to go fuck yourself with your own strawman.

Next bit of drivel.



Immanuel said:


> Even if we are talking about the teachers only having access to the weapons in a defensive situation against an assault like what happened two days ago, we are talking about those teachers carrying weapons under a very stressful situation, i.e. the guy that walks around the corner in front of me could be the shooter... BAM!!! He's dead... oh wait, that was not the shooter, that was the janitor or worse yet, it was an innocent kid just trying to get away.  Or a teacher and her class hiding in the room during an attack blowing away the cop who passes by the window because she thought he was the crazed maniac.



Yeah, can't imagine what could be worse than the utterly hypothetical possibility that the people educating and caring for our children are so fucking stupid they might just start firing wildly at anything that moves . . . except maybe the VERY REAL picture of them standing helplessly by their students as they're all gunned down in job lots.

All you're telling me is that YOU are an incompetent asshole who shouldn't be trusted with anything more dangerous than a butter knife.  I'll be happy to stipulate to that, but it has fuck-all to do with whether or not other people are able to keep their heads and act responsibly in stressful situations, instead of folding up like cheap lawn furniture.

Go look at the stories I posted of how those teachers acted in the face of gunfire with no way of defending themselves at all, and try . . . TRY to tell me you think they're a bunch of blubbering, hysterical fools who can't be trusted.  Go on.  I dare you.



Immanuel said:


> I can't imagine how stressful those minutes would be.



Probably less stressful than facing that same danger with no defense at all. 



Immanuel said:


> I think it is a terrible mistake to make and would lead to children being hurt or killed by well intentioned teachers.
> 
> Immie



Probably in a lot fewer numbers than are ALREADY being hurt and killed by ill-intentioned lunatics.

Your priorities are almost as fucked as your brain.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

Twenty children and 6 teachers/administrators killed by a lone gunman in Newtown, Connecticut.

Liberal reaction:  "We can't arm teachers!  Someone might get hurt!"

I think that pretty much sums up anything there is to say, except . . .

Liberalism is a mental disorder.


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## Immanuel (Dec 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Look it up yourself.  You've seen as many of the reports as I have about guns in the home being more likely to kill or injure a loved one than an intruder.  In this case, I don't have to do your googling for you.

I never said I had a brilliant idea on how to solve this problem, but being stupid and arming untrained teachers sure is not going to be in the top 150 of any ideas I would come up with.  Welcoming firearms to school grounds is about as intelligent as trying to put out a fire with lighter fluid.

Immie


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## Middleoftheroad (Dec 16, 2012)

One of the many problems that I see with this, is too many people assume that shooting someone is easy.  It is 100% the exact opposite, especially in high stress situations.  Police actually hit the suspects they were shooting at about 15-20% of the time.  These are men and women that are trained heavily in the use of guns.  There is no way that teachers are going to be nearly as trained or as ready as police are.

Military kill people with friendly fire, police do, vice-presidents shoot people on accident while hunting.  Teachers?  Nah they could never make a mistake.


----------



## Immanuel (Dec 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Are you frigging insane?  Of course that is what you have been implying in this entire discussion.  Yes, let's just put out this fire with lighter fluid.  Next you will be suggesting we arm the students as well.  

What is the problem with you morons (gramps, KG and Cecile)?  You can't handle a bit of disagreement and discuss it with even an ounce of integrity?  Incompetant Asshole? Because I don't bow to the bitches who think they know everything about everything God put on this earth?

Give me a break!  You can't handle disagreement, but you want the right to carry firearms on public school grounds?  Are you frigging serious?  Evidence suggests that if you were a teacher and a student disagreed with you, his life would be in jeopardy and you want to carry weapons on public school grounds?  You can't be serious.

Discuss this with some intelligence and integrity or STFU.

Immie


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 16, 2012)

Samson said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Closing the state hospitals was not the answer.
> ...



I certainly would encourage the legislature and donate a goodly sum to it.  Privatization of government medical services has not be a resounding success.  Neither has foster care, outsourcing of elder care, or private business prisons.

Privatization is much like communism or libertarianism: great in the abstract, not so in practice.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 16, 2012)

She is in denial again, after yet getting her butt beat by her betters.

What a meltdown queen.





Cecilie1200 said:


> BallsBrunswick <---- Another juvenile misogynistic leftist reduced to frothing, incoherent, raging meltdown.
> 
> My work here is done.  Time for a victory lap and a beer.
> 
> ...


----------



## idb (Dec 16, 2012)

Arming the teachers is the best option?
Unbelievable!

What a fucked up country if that's the best you can do!!!


----------



## idb (Dec 16, 2012)

What would be the procedure in repealing an Amendment to the Constitution?
I assume a national referendum on something as fundamental as that would be required.


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 16, 2012)

I think if it is going to be a hobby of loons to waltz into schools and shoot children as if they're fish in a barrel, then yes, the obvious solution and #1 priority is to PROTECT THE CHILDREN.

But progressives have ever been big on that. Children are viewed as "punishment" and they think there are too many to begin with.


----------



## idb (Dec 16, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> I think if it is going to be a hobby of loons to waltz into schools and shoot children as if they're fish in a barrel, then yes, the obvious solution and #1 priority is to PROTECT THE CHILDREN.
> 
> But progressives have ever been big on that. Children are viewed as "punishment" and they think there are too many to begin with.



So the only option in the Land of the Free, the most advanced nation on earth, is to turn schools into armed fortresses to protect its children against its own citizens.


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 16, 2012)

If children  need protected, then I think we should protect them.

In this society, today, they need protection.

I don't expect progressives to ever sign on for that.


----------



## idb (Dec 16, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> If children  need protected, then I think we should protect them.
> 
> In this society, today, they need protection.
> 
> I don't expect progressives to ever sign on for that.



But at the same time there should be no measures taken to reduce the need for protection of the children?
An arms race against your own citizens is the only answer?


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 16, 2012)

I'm not willing to sacrifice any more children to the vanity of loons who coddle criminals, slaughter infants and seek to establish a totalitarian government in the US. I think we need to arm ourselves against you, and I see no reason why we should refuse to protect our children just because you people want an unarmed citizenry.


----------



## Immanuel (Dec 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Maybe you should try looking a little harder at your own posts because right here you most certainly did imply that we should arm "half-assed trained" teachers.



Cecilie1200 said:


> No one has suggested simply handing all the teachers guns and saying, "Have at."  But there's a wide, wide gulf between that and your strange notion that they should be "combat-trained".



There is a big difference between having qualified to shoot a pistol at a black dot 20 yards away and having to shoot at a human being let alone having to decide between whether the human being is "friend or foe" especially in a crisis situation.  By your own words, You would send half-assed trained teachers into combat situations.

So, I am going to have to ask you to "go fuck yourself".

Immie


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 16, 2012)

I would be grateful to a fucking monkey if it shot the asshole who was mowing down dozens of children cowering under their desks.

Monkeys have more integrity and honor than progressives.


----------



## tjvh (Dec 16, 2012)

Honestly folks... The *only time* the gun grabbers bring up gun control (of Law abiding citizens) is when some fucking loon uses a gun and commits a despicably evil crime against innocents. Strange how we hear about gun control when a program like Fast and Furious is in high gear, yet when Brian Terry gets killed *because of it* the anti gun agenda goes *silent*. We never hear about taking away people's Freedoms to own guns when nut-jobs *aren't* killing people because it's painfully clear... The majority of Americans know why the Founders saw fit to author the Second Amendment... And those who want to *infringe upon those Freedoms* know it too. When the ability to defend oneself from enemies both foreign and domestic is lost... Well, you might as well shackle yourselves and throw away the key, because you'll be nothing more than a serf, or slave. The time to discuss rational issues of gun ownership is NOT when people are emotionally compromised by a tragedy... It's when people on both sides of the issue have all of their ducks in a row. Of course the issue will *never* be discussed *without* a tragedy to back up the twisted agenda because of the one basic fact... People are not willing to toss their Freedoms aside because some fucking tyrannical numbskulls feel it's in the collective best interest of their own ideology. Sorry... But the Founders got this one Right. When the citizens get disarmed, they are at the mercy of those who retain their power and profess to know what is best for *others*. I'm not ready to give criminals with unregistered firearms a blank check to kick in my door and take all that they desire. You anti gun pussies have every opportunity *NOT* to exercise your Freedoms because your afraid of inanimate objects like guns... But don't tell me I don't have the Right to exercise *my* Freedoms to protect myself, and my own property. I've got news for everyone... All of the tyrannical regulations in the World will not make people safe... There will always be that one Bear that mauls you, Snake that bites you, Bee that stings you, and dog that bites you... What you have to ask yourselves is -would you rather *be bit* by a Snake or Dog *accidentally*, or relinquish your Freedoms and allow yourself *to be bit* by Snakes and Dogs *intentionally*?


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 16, 2012)

"How dare you suggest schools protect children from crazed gunmen!"


----------



## squeeze berry (Dec 16, 2012)

Middleoftheroad said:


> One of the many problems that I see with this, is too many people assume that shooting someone is easy.  It is 100% the exact opposite, especially in high stress situations.  Police actually hit the suspects they were shooting at about 15-20% of the time.  These are men and women that are trained heavily in the use of guns.  *There is no way that teachers are going to be nearly as trained or as ready as police are.*
> Military kill people with friendly fire, police do, vice-presidents shoot people on accident while hunting.  Teachers?  Nah they could never make a mistake.




Would a teacher in any particular school have an edge over an armed assailant because of knowing the school environment?

Cops are going in blind. They do not know the layout, which rooms are occupied. where staff are located


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 16, 2012)

Utter and complete deflection which dishonors the dead children.



tjvh said:


> Honestly folks... The *only time* the gun grabbers bring up gun control (of Law abiding citizens) is when some fucking loon uses a gun and commits a despicably evil crime against innocents. Strange how we hear about gun control when a program like Fast and Furious is in high gear, yet when Brian Terry gets killed *because of it* the anti gun agenda goes *silent*. We never hear about taking away people's Freedoms to own guns when nut-jobs *aren't* killing people because it's painfully clear... The majority of Americans know why the Founders saw fit to author the Second Amendment... And those who want to *infringe upon those Freedoms* know it too. When the ability to defend oneself from enemies both foreign and domestic is lost... Well, you might as well shackle yourselves and throw away the key, because you'll be nothing more than a serf, or slave. The time to discuss rational issues of gun ownership is NOT when people are emotionally compromised by a tragedy... It's when people on both sides of the issue have all of their ducks in a row. Of course the issue will *never* be discussed *without* a tragedy to back up the twisted agenda because of the one basic fact... People are not willing to toss their Freedoms aside because some fucking tyrannical numbskulls feel it's in the collective best interest of their own ideology. Sorry... But the Founders got this one Right. When the citizens get disarmed, they are at the mercy of those who retain their power and profess to know what is best for *others*. I'm not ready to give criminals with unregistered firearms a blank check to kick in my door and take all that they desire. You anti gun pussies have every opportunity *NOT* to exercise your Freedoms because your afraid of inanimate objects like guns... But don't tell me I don't have the Right to exercise *my* Freedoms to protect myself, and my own property. I've got news for everyone... All of the tyrannical regulations in the World will not make people safe... There will always be that one Bear that mauls you, Snake that bites you, Bee that stings you, and dog that bites you... What you have to ask yourselves is -would you rather *be bit* by a Snake or Dog *accidentally*, or relinquish your Freedoms and allow yourself *to be bit* by Snakes and Dogs *intentionally*?


----------



## squeeze berry (Dec 16, 2012)

drama queen ^


----------



## Noomi (Dec 16, 2012)

Nice to see the ardent pro lifers being so pro life as usual. Hoping that some teacher had a gun so they could act in the pro life way and shoot someone.

You must be so proud.


----------



## squeeze berry (Dec 16, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Nice to see the ardent pro lifers being so pro life as usual. Hoping that some teacher had a gun so they could act in the pro life way and shoot someone.
> 
> You must be so proud.



it's stereotype girl ^


----------



## Noomi (Dec 16, 2012)

Arming the teachers would be a good idea, but what happens if that teacher uses his/her gun to go on a killing spree?


----------



## squeeze berry (Dec 16, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Arming the teachers would be a good idea, but what happens if that teacher uses his/her gun to go on a killing spree?



do teachers have a history of going on killing sprees Noomi? 

Teachers put up with a lot of shit from students and parents without going psycho.


----------



## Noomi (Dec 16, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> > Arming the teachers would be a good idea, but what happens if that teacher uses his/her gun to go on a killing spree?
> ...



Its still a possibility, is all - and what happens if that happens?


----------



## squeeze berry (Dec 16, 2012)

Noomi said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > Noomi said:
> ...



which is more likely? 

and couldn't another teacher take care of the problem?

Either way, you are in a better position with armed teachers.

BTW 

IMO this is all hypothetical. I don't see teachers being allowed to do this.


----------



## Noomi (Dec 16, 2012)

I think having a teacher armed around students is dangerous and frightening and I wouldn't want my kids teacher carrying a gun.


----------



## squeeze berry (Dec 16, 2012)

Noomi said:


> I think having a teacher armed around students is dangerous and frightening and I wouldn't want my kids teacher carrying a gun.



how would a teacher being armed be dangerous?


----------



## Skull Pilot (Dec 16, 2012)

Locking the doors would have been a good idea no?


----------



## squeeze berry (Dec 16, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> Locking the doors would have been a good idea no?



I heard he shot out a window or something like that


----------



## KissMy (Dec 16, 2012)

"Utah state law already allows people with concealed-weapons permits to carry guns on school grounds. School districts across the state have different policies about where those guns can be kept, banning them from being stored in places like desks or coat closets." - Officials split on teacher gun class


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


Scratching my head still, upon how this cat could be so evil and dark as a human being, but the reports will soon shed more light on this I'm hoping..


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


Getting through all the cussing, I see that you make many very good points, and I would agree with those points, in which now leads me to wonder how many are thinking like this immie cat in America(?) and maybe this is why we have these problems today in America..


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Twenty children and 6 teachers/administrators killed by a lone gunman in Newtown, Connecticut.
> 
> Liberal reaction:  "We can't arm teachers!  Someone might get hurt!"
> 
> ...


Liberalism is so weak, that it is fallen to the devil I believe, and the last thing the devil and his weak minded minions/sheeple want, is for us to take counter measures against his evil in this nation. The devil loves for us to be like fish in a barrel when he comes to fishing, so he can get as many a body count as he can, and this without us defending ourselves against him, otherwise when he just gathers us up in one fast swoop like fish in a barrel.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

Middleoftheroad said:


> One of the many problems that I see with this, is too many people assume that shooting someone is easy.  It is 100% the exact opposite, especially in high stress situations.  Police actually hit the suspects they were shooting at about 15-20% of the time.  These are men and women that are trained heavily in the use of guns.  There is no way that teachers are going to be nearly as trained or as ready as police are.
> 
> Military kill people with friendly fire, police do, vice-presidents shoot people on accident while hunting.  Teachers?  Nah they could never make a mistake.


So what do nothing then, and wait for the next horror show ?


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...


It's so wonder you don't go ahead and say that teachers who train police officers are idiots as well, because they are teachers also ya know.. In your thinking it's so wonder that a woman could ever became a police officer in your mind, because they are just to what maybe in your thinking ?

I have been convinced that if we had proper training and etc., we could make all these schools more safe in America. Now the next thing that will stop that is MONEY. This nation can give billions to the Egytion governments military and billions to Pakistan, but you watch and see, there won't be enough money for anything we need in America..... Just wait and see....


----------



## bodecea (Dec 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Twenty children and 6 teachers/administrators killed by a lone gunman in Newtown, Connecticut.
> 
> Liberal reaction:  "We can't arm teachers!  Someone might get hurt!"
> 
> ...



As I said, arming teachers is a wonderful idea.   The kids would get their homework in more often and parents would be more respectful at conference time.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...


Who can't handle dis-agreement ?


----------



## Rat in the Hat (Dec 16, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Arming the teachers would be a good idea, but what happens if that teacher uses his/her gun to go on a killing spree?



The FAA allowed pilots to be armed after 9/11, and I haven't heard of a pilot going on a killing spree.


Come to think of it, I haven't heard of anyone trying to storm the cockpit of a jet since they were armed either.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

idb said:


> Arming the teachers is the best option?
> Unbelievable!
> 
> What a fucked up country if that's the best you can do!!!


It is an option, and we are smart enough in this nation to do it, and they are smart enough to handle it, but in your feeble government controlled thinking mind, I bet you would be afraid to think outside the box for even one second, because you fear that the government thought police would come and take you away...LOL


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## Katzndogz (Dec 16, 2012)

At the very least SOMEONE who was armed would have been able to stop this guy because there was plenty of time to do it.  They saw him at the door.  They watched him smash the window to gain access.  Before Lanza ever went to a classroom he went to the principal's office and killed all the unarmed people there.   He should have been met with a hail of gunfire and dropped right when he walked through the door.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

idb said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > I think if it is going to be a hobby of loons to waltz into schools and shoot children as if they're fish in a barrel, then yes, the obvious solution and #1 priority is to PROTECT THE CHILDREN.
> ...


Have you looked at schools lately, ummm do they resemble prisons to you already ? Think about it... What ever happened to the days when children could walk through a neighborhood at night on Hallowen, never get kidnapped, molested, or anyother of this sick crap that is happening so much today, and then bring home a bag of candy that would last almost to thanksgiving? I was a part of that generation who could do that, and so I know that things have gotten much worse under extreme liberalism or theology, and also under the terminal greedy in this nation now. Back when my mom and dad went to school, they could also walk to school or ride their bycycles to school, and no one would hurt them or do bad things to them, but here we all are now, after we have been duped by the idiots in this nation now... Kidding me right ! I could say to so many right now *"I TOLD YOU SO".*


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 16, 2012)

Rat in the Hat said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> > Arming the teachers would be a good idea, but what happens if that teacher uses his/her gun to go on a killing spree?
> ...


Liberals hate it when someone is able to defend themselves


----------



## bodecea (Dec 16, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Rat in the Hat said:
> 
> 
> > Noomi said:
> ...



This liberal defends herself just fine, thank you.

I am interested to see what it would be like to have an experimental state of armed teachers.  Let's try it out in Texas.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 16, 2012)

bodecea said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Rat in the Hat said:
> ...



How about we try it where it is needed? In states that have the most gun control laws.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> I would be grateful to a fucking monkey if it shot the asshole who was mowing down dozens of children cowering under their desks.
> 
> Monkeys have more integrity and honor than progressives.


They act as if when a good person straps on a gun, then they become evil instantly....LOL Was Andy Taylor evil in character of or Barney Phiffe as played in their characters back in the day?  We know that these characters were developed from real Americans that we all knew back in the day, and that did represent American culture back in the day. It' so wonder that these unrealistic thinkers in our society today or extremist idiots ever allowed for a woman to become a police officer...... Thank about it..


----------



## Zoom (Dec 16, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> 
> I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.



Can we arm everyone at movie theaters?


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> Middleoftheroad said:
> 
> 
> > One of the many problems that I see with this, is too many people assume that shooting someone is easy.  It is 100% the exact opposite, especially in high stress situations.  Police actually hit the suspects they were shooting at about 15-20% of the time.  These are men and women that are trained heavily in the use of guns.  *There is no way that teachers are going to be nearly as trained or as ready as police are.*
> ...


Yes, they would have the advantage over the cops, and they also would know where the guman is.... Big advantage..


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Nice to see the ardent pro lifers being so pro life as usual. Hoping that some teacher had a gun so they could act in the pro life way and shoot someone.
> 
> You must be so proud.


Very proud, and this more so than having all those kids and teachers gunned down with no help and defense for them..


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 16, 2012)

I didn't watch tv yesterday to avoid the stories. Seeing them today just angers me more. 

Give the teachers access to weapons!


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Arming the teachers would be a good idea, but what happens if that teacher uses his/her gun to go on a killing spree?


You could make this argument with any issue in America, but we rely on training and background checks and every other check that is needed, beyond that we are all in God's hands.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 16, 2012)

Zoom said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> ...



Movies are a choice, school is not. I avoid theaters on weekend nights because of all the roudy kids. Going to school is not an option for most to opt out of


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## koshergrl (Dec 16, 2012)

Again, simply amazed that progressives are brazenly proclaiming that we shouldn't protect our children.


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 16, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> > Arming the teachers would be a good idea, but what happens if that teacher uses his/her gun to go on a killing spree?
> ...



Noomi thought the woman who taped her child to the wall and beat her into a coma should have gotten a light sentence. You aren't going to see her advocating safety measures for children, nor are you going to see her moved by concern for children.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

Zoom said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> ...


This is rediculous thinking or speak by you, and you know it, but yes I would go for some of the staff being armed (concealed carry) at a movie theater, but you would cringe at that also now wouldn't you ? There is just no satisfying people like you, and then there you'll be after the next shooting or mass murder, defending it all by suggesting that we all remain like fish in a barrel, and with no defense what-so-ever. Your avatar may speak about the kind of dark person you are behind it, but we are done listening to the dark side, and we need to move back towards the light now.


----------



## bodecea (Dec 16, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Nope...Texas first.   Good guinea pig state.   Arm every teacher in the state and lets observe the results for a few years.   I'm all for that.


----------



## bodecea (Dec 16, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Noomi said:
> ...



Gonna need to show a link of Noomi stating that.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Noomi said:
> ...


Wow,,, amazing.......


----------



## Zoom (Dec 16, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> I didn't watch tv yesterday to avoid the stories. Seeing them today just angers me more.
> 
> Give the teachers access to weapons!



Don't forget the popcorn girl at the movie theaters.


----------



## Zoom (Dec 16, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Zoom said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



The shooter was home schooled.  Bazinga.....


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

bodecea said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...


Is there this problem in Texas ? However, I am all for that, because I garantee you that Texas could show us how it is done and done right, and it could set the standard for it, so good idea afterall...


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

Zoom said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom said:
> ...


What does this have to do with what he said ?


----------



## Rat in the Hat (Dec 16, 2012)

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



OK



> I think that life is a bit excessive, but the child should be placed into care and *mum should be jailed for a short period* so she learns her lesson.


http://www.usmessageboard.com/6127297-post11.html


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

Zoom said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't watch tv yesterday to avoid the stories. Seeing them today just angers me more.
> ...


Why you been looking at her as weak maybe ? Ha, she made need to be armed.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

Rat in the Hat said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...


I wonder what her short period thinking is ? 1 year and probation ? I would like to hear from her on this..


----------



## Zoom (Dec 16, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Zoom said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...


I am a gun owner.  I conceal carry myself.  I have no fucking idea what you are talking about but you sound like a typical right wingers.  Totally lost.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 16, 2012)

Zoom said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom said:
> ...



The children that died were not.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

Zoom said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom said:
> ...


If you give me that label, I might just proudly wear it for you..


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 16, 2012)

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



Need in one hand, shit in the other.

It's in the thread about the little girl who was taped to the wall, and it's one of the earlier posts.


----------



## Breck62 (Dec 16, 2012)

Now, before you get all riled up, see if this makes sense:

Don't arm all teachers.  Each school would have 3 or 4 teachers that were screened and trained in firearms and what to do if a situation would occur.  They would not be "packing", but would know where in the school the guns were kept (4 different locations) and have the key to get at them.  (picture your old football coach or wrestling coach).
No one would know who these selected teachers were. ( so they weren't targets)
But everyone would know that ALL schools have 4 of them, so IF you planned on pulling a Newtown type attack, you'd have to think that your sorry butt may get blown away before you could do any real damage.

It would be nice if we could get rid of all guns and all violence, but until we do we have to be prepared to face real world dangers the best we can.

comments?


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 16, 2012)

This is not what progressives want. They don't want to protect children, and they will not lift a finger to do so.

There could be a group of people hitting a school a day, walking in and mowing down kids every single day...and they would still say we should not protect the children.

They will not protect children. They see children as disposable, and they do not care when they are killed.


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 16, 2012)

Rat in the Hat said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> > Arming the teachers would be a good idea, but what happens if that teacher uses his/her gun to go on a killing spree?
> ...



Probably has a lot more to do with the fact they have iron doors on the cockpits now...


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 16, 2012)

You are right.  Noomi inferred nothing of the sort.  koshergrl (AllieBaba) is a such a sick individual that if the state hospitals still had that bed space from the 1970s would certainly be a patient in one of them for the rest of her life.  She is so disturbed.



bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...


----------



## Rat in the Hat (Dec 16, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Rat in the Hat said:
> 
> 
> > Noomi said:
> ...



The reinforced (not iron) doors keep pilots from going on a killing spree?

Who knew??


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 16, 2012)

Progressives see children as disposable pawn. Dead children have always been more valuable to progressives than live ones.

You will see that in all the causes they espouse. If children are dying, you can be guaranteed that progressives are exerting power.


----------



## bodecea (Dec 16, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Yep...I think Perry should get on it right away.   All of you from TX should start petitioning your state government to make it law.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 16, 2012)

bodecea said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



Really why wouldn't you want it where it was most needed?


----------



## bodecea (Dec 16, 2012)

Rat in the Hat said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Did you ask her what she meant by "short period"?


----------



## bodecea (Dec 16, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> This is not what progressives want. *They don't want to protect children, and they will not lift a finger to do so.*
> There could be a group of people hitting a school a day, walking in and mowing down kids every single day...and they would still say we should not protect the children.
> 
> They will not protect children. They see children as disposable, and they do not care when they are killed.



I sometimes wonder how you look in the mirror and how you sleep at nite.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 16, 2012)

bodecea said:


> Rat in the Hat said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



of course defend a fellow liberal for an asinine statement.


----------



## bodecea (Dec 16, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Why are you trying to keep it from being tried in Texas?


----------



## bodecea (Dec 16, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > Rat in the Hat said:
> ...




Ah, so you have an exact definition of "short period", do you?  What did she mean by "short period"?   Tell us exactly.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



"I made the statement, but YOU should go 'look it up yourself' to verify that I'm correct."

Let me just translate that for you:  It means "I'm major, lazy-ass dumbfuck who likes to make statements about how the world works based on the voices in my head, and utterly unworthy of any respect, courtesy, or even notice by intelligent human beings."

Thanks for sharing, and thanks for utterly surrendering the debate.  Go play with yourself.

FLUSH!


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

Middleoftheroad said:


> One of the many problems that I see with this, is too many people assume that shooting someone is easy.  It is 100% the exact opposite, especially in high stress situations.  Police actually hit the suspects they were shooting at about 15-20% of the time.  These are men and women that are trained heavily in the use of guns.  There is no way that teachers are going to be nearly as trained or as ready as police are.
> 
> Military kill people with friendly fire, police do, vice-presidents shoot people on accident while hunting.  Teachers?  Nah they could never make a mistake.



So what's the worst that could happen?  A bunch of dead children and teachers?  Oh, look!  WE ALREADY HAVE THAT!

A fucking mental disorder.  That's all it could possibly be.  Half the fucking country has gone insane.  I have no other explanation.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

idb said:


> What would be the procedure in repealing an Amendment to the Constitution?
> I assume a national referendum on something as fundamental as that would be required.



If you really have to ask, you're too fucking ignorant to be allowed to discuss it.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> I would be grateful to a fucking monkey if it shot the asshole who was mowing down dozens of children cowering under their desks.
> 
> Monkeys have more integrity and honor than progressives.



Not that that's a high bar to clear.


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Middleoftheroad said:
> 
> 
> > One of the many problems that I see with this, is too many people assume that shooting someone is easy.  It is 100% the exact opposite, especially in high stress situations.  Police actually hit the suspects they were shooting at about 15-20% of the time.  These are men and women that are trained heavily in the use of guns.  There is no way that teachers are going to be nearly as trained or as ready as police are.
> ...



We have thousands of armed security guards on duty in banks, courthouses, and other venues.  Most of these are ordinary citizens that have been trained for their jobs.   Personnel on commercial airliners, busses, trains, and ocean going vessels have access to firearms and are instructed to use them in case of emergency.  The emergency would of course be to defend the passengers and/or crew against something or somebody intent on harming them.

How many of us can name even one incident where any of these people used those weapons inappropriately or in a way that endangered the passengers more than they already were?

It is simply beyond reason to assume that a properly trained school teacher, somebody we put in charge of our children for the greater part of their day, would be less responsible or capable of handling that duty in case of emergency.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Nice to see the ardent pro lifers being so pro life as usual. Hoping that some teacher had a gun so they could act in the pro life way and shoot someone.
> 
> You must be so proud.



Only a dumb, leftist twat would think the "pro-life" position is to stand there helplessly with your thumb up your ass while a crazed gunman shoots you and your classroom full of children dead.

Of course, only a dangerously sociopathic sicko would try to score points for her baby-killing agenda on the back of a school shooting.

Oh, THERE you are, Noomi!  We were just talking about you!


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Arming the teachers would be a good idea, but what happens if that teacher uses his/her gun to go on a killing spree?



Then we're no worse off than we are right now, obviously, fuckstain.  Not like anything is stopping ANYONE from grabbing a gun and going on a killing spree at the moment.

Does it hurt to be as frigging stupid and evil as you are, or are you used to it by now?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

Noomi said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > Noomi said:
> ...



Then one of the OTHER armed teachers shoots and kills his sorry ass, obviously.  That WAS the point of the whole thing.

Now do you want to posit an entire group of teachers experiencing a mass breakout of homicidal insanity?  I'd be amazed at the ignorant leftist belief that everyone on the planet is one breath away from berserk killing sprees, if I couldn't see what YOU'RE like.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

Breck62 said:


> Now, before you get all riled up, see if this makes sense:
> 
> Don't arm all teachers.  Each school would have 3 or 4 teachers that were screened and trained in firearms and what to do if a situation would occur.  They would not be "packing", but would know where in the school the guns were kept (4 different locations) and have the key to get at them.  (picture your old football coach or wrestling coach).
> No one would know who these selected teachers were. ( so they weren't targets)
> ...


I agree with some of your statements, but not with the one about getting rid of all guns, but instead we just need to get rid of guns in the hands of bad people or make guns less atractive or cool to people, otherwise having only real responsible owners in search of weapons having them or owning them, and this only because they are facinated by their workings pertaining to there hunting capabilities or target shooting capabilities or defensive capabilities, but get these things out of the hands of so many criminals and bad people in this nation whom want to use them for wrong doings.

How guns became so previlent in the hands of bad people in this nation just amazes me, and the problem is for us, is that this is probably one of the best kept secrets among people in this nation, I mean about how these weapons got into or ended up in the hands of so many bad people now.

Law enforcement knows best, so why havn't they been pro-active to stop this problem of illegal gun running over the years, and these weapons ending up in the hands of so many bad people ? Just watch "gangland" for one example of or for starters, because that is just a start of the boasting in it all... Oh wait I know, it is because of political restraints, the revolving doorway at the justice departments, the corruption, dirty cops and etc. that caused all of this to have gone on in this nation, just like what happened in Vietnam where that war should have been won insted of lost. When will we learn that the politicians and our media etc. are working against us in so many ways, that it just isn't funny anymore ?


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> > squeeze berry said:
> ...


Good points..


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

Zoom said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> ...



Why does it have to be "everyone"?  If you want to sit there helplessly and wait for other people to protect you, that's fine.  Fortunately for you, there are REAL men in this country who are willing to do the heavy lifting for the pussies among us.

Meanwhile, if I owned a movie theater, I'd be giving discounts on tickets to people with guns and valid permits for them.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 16, 2012)

Nova78 said:


> Time to arm the teachers ?
> 
> Boy, what a well thought out statement....



Wow, did you give the suggestion even two nanoseconds of thought before you puked all your standard libtard bullshit all over the damned place?

Go fuck yourself, dumbass.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Noomi said:
> ...



But you WILL, apparently, see her put her children into the care of someone she doesn't trust and thinks is dangerous, incompetent, and potentially homicidal.

Interesting.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

Zoom said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't watch tv yesterday to avoid the stories. Seeing them today just angers me more.
> ...



You got a problem with the popcorn girl at the theater?  She turn you down for a date?  Recommends her all the more, in my book.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Rat in the Hat said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



"Learn her lesson"?  Noomi the Sociopath thinks "don't glue your kid to the wall and beat her" is a LESSON PEOPLE NEED TO BE TAUGHT?!

And people think I'm being too harsh when I call that evil cow a sociopath.


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 16, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Breck62 said:
> 
> 
> > Now, before you get all riled up, see if this makes sense:
> ...



We need to return to a culture where bad guys are an anomally instead of common place.  Where burglary, rape, assault, and murder are uncommon things instead of every day occurrences.  Where repeated immoral and destructive behavior costs sports and entertainment figures their careers instead of making them national icons admired by many.  Where there are again voluntary standards for language and content of activities and entertainment for children.   Where people have concepts of right and wrong drilled into them early on and are applauded for choosing to live constructive lives and make positive social choices and scorned for bad behavior.  Where activities and opportunities that reinforce good choices and discourage bad ones are not only condoned but encouraged.  Where most Americans can walk the streets in safety at any time of day or night just about everywhere instead of that becoming a much less common thing.

There was such a time in America, and yes, people were more heavily armed then than they are now.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Middleoftheroad said:
> ...



You're brilliant, and I wish I could rep you again.


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



LOL.  Far from brilliant.  But I like to think I am of normal intelligence and able to utilize common sense and reason despite how much others push fanatical concepts of political correctness or are so brainwashed in anti gun talking points that they no longer can see the forest for the trees.

Seriously people.  All the teachers probably won't choose to be armed or take special training to keep a firearm at school.  But certainly some, given the chance, will.  Do you honestly believe that teacher entrusted with the safety and well being of your child for 30 to 40 or more hours every week would be more of a danger to your child than the sociopathic maniac determined to kill as many as he can?  And can anybody logically think we would have 20 dead 5 to 7 year olds plus 7 dead faculty members at Sandy Hook Elementary if some of the teachers in that school had been armed?


----------



## MikeK (Dec 16, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> [...]
> 
> It is simply beyond reason to assume that a *properly trained* school teacher, somebody we put in charge of our children for the greater part of their day, would be less responsible or capable of handling that duty in case of emergency.


The keywords there are "properly trained."  

To deal with this kind of threat will take a lot more training than is typically available to new gun owners, which is basically how to safely handle the weapon and to put three out of six hits on a paper target at twenty feet.  The fact is it will take a trained gunfighter to properly and adequately confront a well-armed, suicidal assassin at close range.  And this requires many, many hours of intensive, exhausively repetitive training and, most importantly, it calls for a certain mentality which is not typical of the vast majority of teachers.  

The mindset needed to produce an effective response to a well-armed, suicidal, mass killer calls for the kind of intensive conditioning which enables reflexive responses, thus bypassing the potential for _freezing_ under threat and eliminating the need to think about what to do.  This reflexive capability not only requires extensive training but frequent practice (stimulus) sessions.

So the idea of arming school teachers is essentially naive and uninformed.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 16, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Middleoftheroad said:
> ...



We can always count on Foxy to bring some wisdom to the table for discussion.


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 16, 2012)

MikeK said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > [...]
> ...



The same training as is given security guards, bus drivers, airline pilots and key flight attendant staff, train conductors, cruise ship personnel?  Again, how many incidents can you name in which any of these have used their weapons inappropriately?   Do you honestly believe that teachers, given the same degree of training, would somehow be far more dangerous having a weapon at their disposal than would any of these thousands and thousands of other folks?


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 16, 2012)

_"It would be nice if we could get rid of all guns and all violence, but until we do we have to be prepared to face real world dangers the best we can."_

It would be wise to note that there was more than enough violence to go around *before* guns were invented.


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 16, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Nova78 said:
> 
> 
> > Time to arm the teachers ?
> ...



Actually, the idea of arming teachers is so ass-poundingly retarded, it woudl be sad unless you realize the gun nuts are serious about it.  

Frankly, I find it hilarious the same wingnuts who don't want Public School teachers teaching Sex education, or telling kids about evolution, or discussing topics like Global Warming with them, because those teachers are just too damned liberal.  

But they'll trust that teacher to have a loaded gun in the classroom.  

Because it's not like anything ever gets stolen out of a classroom.


----------



## MikeK (Dec 16, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> The same training as is given security guards, bus drivers, airline pilots and key flight attendant staff, train conductors, cruise ship personnel?  Again, how many incidents can you name in which any of these have used their weapons inappropriately?   Do you honestly believe that teachers, given the same degree of training, would somehow be far more dangerous having a weapon at their disposal than would any of these thousands and thousands of other folks?


Nonsense.

Except for those security guards who are forrmer police officers and have some advanced level of firearms training in their history, those who have received the standard eight hour training regimen at some "certified" local range are capable of properly handling their weapon and putting enough hits on a paper target to be approved for a carry permit.  And that's it.  

As for the potential of average teachers to become effective gunfighters, while there might be a few the vast majority have no such potential.  And if you believe less than the kind of exhaustive training I've previously mentioned is adequate to prepare an ordinary person to confront a well-armed, suicidal assassin you simply don't know what you're talking about.  

Also, I'd like you to provide examples of bus drivers, cruise ship personnel (except for Captains), train conductors and airline pilots who not only are armed but have received advanced firearms _confrontation_ training.  Last I heard airline pilots were not authorized to carry firearms and I've never heard of bus drivers or train conductors being legally armed.  You should know that in New York City in the 1970s an average of one night-line taxi driver per week was being robbed and murdered but cab drivers' demand to be armed was turned down.  So, again, you don't know what you're talking about.


----------



## Rat in the Hat (Dec 16, 2012)

MikeK said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > The same training as is given security guards, bus drivers, airline pilots and key flight attendant staff, train conductors, cruise ship personnel?  Again, how many incidents can you name in which any of these have used their weapons inappropriately?   Do you honestly believe that teachers, given the same degree of training, would somehow be far more dangerous having a weapon at their disposal than would any of these thousands and thousands of other folks?
> ...



You heard wrong.


> the Transportation Security Administration developed the Federal Flight Deck Officer program as an additional layer of security.
> 
> Under this program, eligible flight crewmembers are authorized by the Transportation Security Administration Office of Law Enforcement/Federal Air Marshal Service to use firearms to defend against an act of criminal violence or air piracy attempting to gain control of an aircraft. A flight crew member may be a pilot, flight engineer or navigator assigned to the flight.



Federal Flight Deck Officers | Transportation Security Administration


----------



## MikeK (Dec 16, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Nova78 said:
> ...


When I lived in Brooklyn my next-door neighbor was a kindergarten teacher, the sweetest, most naively warm and pleasant person I've ever known.  To imagine her being willing to even hold a gun is out of the question.

Also, I attended Catholic schools and I just can't imagine the Franciscan brothers or Carmelite nuns being "strapped."  (What a thought.)  They might attack with blackboard pointers and cat-o'-nine-tails, but that's it.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

MikeK said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



I have no idea what the hell Catholic schools have to do with this.  It's PUBLIC schools that are having the problems, by and large.

Furthermore, perhaps your neighbor in Brooklyn wouldn't volunteer to be one of the armed teachers, then.  Or perhaps you don't know your ass from your elbow, and she'd be more than happy to defend her students.  Either way, your fucking personal anecdotes are an even bigger waste of everyone's time than your posts usually are, so let me cut to the chase:  no one gives a fuck about your personal life, or the people you personally know.  Whatever policy we put into place regarding the hundreds of thousands of public schools in this nation, it will NOT be based on YOUR piddly-assed little personal life and the handful of dipshit, piddly-assed acquaintances which have peopled it.

Speak to the issue, and stop confusing this with your group therapy session, because I'm not being paid to listen, so I don't care if you exist.


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 16, 2012)

MikeK said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > The same training as is given security guards, bus drivers, airline pilots and key flight attendant staff, train conductors, cruise ship personnel?  Again, how many incidents can you name in which any of these have used their weapons inappropriately?   Do you honestly believe that teachers, given the same degree of training, would somehow be far more dangerous having a weapon at their disposal than would any of these thousands and thousands of other folks?
> ...


 
I didn't mention cabs, actually, though I know some do carry, probably without permission to do so.  Knowing people who work in all industries I did name, while not publicized, I can assure you that they have means to deal with an armed passenger or terrorist intent on committing mayhem.  After 9/11, Congress passed a widely publicized bill allowing airline pilots to have firearms in the cockpit.   I have one shirttail relative who is a port director for Carnival Cruise Lines and two relatives who work as armed bank guards, neither who have ever been police officers or in the military. The next time you are on a Greyhound bus, you might look for the locked cabinet above the windshield just to the right of the driver.

And you can argue all you want to that teachers will not have the training and expertise to deal with an armed terrorist or suicidal assassin, but I will still say that an armed teacher with rudimentary instruction in using it is in a better position to defend himself/herself and the children in his/her charge than is the teacher with no firearm at his/her disposal.   The fact that the teacher might not have opportunity or be successful is no reason to deny the ability.


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## idb (Dec 16, 2012)

Don't forget the importance of schools being sited and designed so that they have clear interconnecting fields of fire into the streets outside...for the safety of the kids.


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## squeeze berry (Dec 16, 2012)

MikeK said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > [...]
> ...



how many police officers have been in gunfights?

btw

some school teachers are handy with a gun


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Middleoftheroad said:
> ...



Trianing people how to use fireamrs is not the problem. Your gun culture is....


----------



## Oddball (Dec 16, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> Trianing people how to use fireamrs is not the problem. Your gun culture is....


Psychos mowing down unarmed people is the problem.

The "gun culture" is just another brain dead liberoidal straw man.


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 16, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Nice to see the ardent pro lifers being so pro life as usual. Hoping that some teacher had a gun so they could act in the pro life way and shoot someone.
> 
> You must be so proud.



The ardent pro-lifers, as usual, are attempting to protect innocent children from butchers, and as usual, progressives are claiming children don't rate protection, and are working as hard as they can to make sure the slaughter continues.

Schoolrooms, abortion clinics, it's all good, eh?.


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

Oddball said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Trianing people how to use fireamrs is not the problem. Your gun culture is....
> ...



Only in America.....

Talking gun violence: facts for a debate America has to have

THE air in the United States is thick with calls to avoid ''politicising'' the tragedy. That is code, essentially, for ''don't talk about reforming gun control laws''.

Let's be clear: That is a form of politicisation.


*Eleven of the 20 worst mass shootings in the past 50 years happened in the US. *


 Kieran Healy, a sociologist at Duke University, in July made a graph of ''deaths due to assault'' in the US and other developed countries. The US is a clear outlier, with rates well above other countries. As Healy writes, ''The most striking features of the data are (1) how much more violent the US is than other OECD countries  and (2) the degree of change - and recently, decline - there has been in the US.''


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> > Nice to see the ardent pro lifers being so pro life as usual. Hoping that some teacher had a gun so they could act in the pro life way and shoot someone.
> ...



And when the teacher has a bad day at the office? Or some thug starts pushing him or her around during class?


----------



## Oddball (Dec 16, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...


Oh, so since half of them happened in America, that completely wipes the rest of them -all in nations with far stricter gun laws than exist in America BTW- off the boards?

And what of the genocide in Rwanda, that was perpetrated without a single shot being fired?....Was that the fault of Rwanda's "machete culture"?


----------



## 9thIDdoc (Dec 16, 2012)

MikeK said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > The same training as is given security guards, bus drivers, airline pilots and key flight attendant staff, train conductors, cruise ship personnel?  Again, how many incidents can you name in which any of these have used their weapons inappropriately?   Do you honestly believe that teachers, given the same degree of training, would somehow be far more dangerous having a weapon at their disposal than would any of these thousands and thousands of other folks?
> ...



_And if you believe less than the kind of exhaustive training I've previously mentioned is adequate to prepare an ordinary person to confront a well-armed, suicidal assassin you simply don't know what you're talking about._

The fact is that it is not at all uncommon for untrained unarmed ordinary people to confront these sumbags who are also usually untrained and a very long way from being "effective gunfights". Gun trumps hand and almost always they die. They certainly deserve an even break and just having a firearm would go a long way tword evening the scales even if they only receive enough training to be able to safely carry without shooting themselves or anyone they don't intend to. Eight hours is plenty of time to teach that. At indoor rangers great marksmanship is not required. You don't have to be Annie Oakly to shove your muzzle into a child killer's ear and pull the trigger. And dead kids tend to provide an amazing amount of inspiration to do just that. It ain't rocket science.


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

Oddball said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



No, they are not off the boards. Just saying of the 20 worst in western countries, you own 11 of them. There are about 20 other countries that fit the "western world" description - finland has two of them, Norway and Australia one each. Read the article. It's neither pro or anti gun. In fact, some of the points are just matter of fact.

Oh, so you want to compare Rwanda to the US? You really want to do that? Shall I compare a Polar Bear to a ladybug while I'm at it? Like the US and Rwanda those two critters have so much in common...<sarcasm>


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 16, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Noomi said:
> ...


Grump do you think cops don't have a bad day? yet how many cops use their firearm because they were pissed?


----------



## squeeze berry (Dec 16, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Nova78 said:
> ...



so you think a teacher would be leaving a loaded gun sitting out in the open?


You are the one that is loaded


----------



## Oddball (Dec 16, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...


You're the one who invoked the silly "gun culture" straw man argument....That you could provide some article from elsewhere invoking the same silly meme, doesn't suddenly make a straw man argument valid.

It's no more valid than blaming Rwanda's "machete culture" for the slaughter that went on there.

In any event, the one thing that is present in and common to all of those massacres is the completely unarmed and helpless victim.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 16, 2012)

I've seen LOTS of "what ifs" in this thread to discredit the idea but not much sound reality based reasoning.


----------



## squeeze berry (Dec 16, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Noomi said:
> ...



can you show us the stats that prove that teachers are violent as a group?

Any mass shootings? 

Teachers shooting disruptive students?

Anything?


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Are students generally a violent group of people?
Your point?


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

Oddball said:


> You're the one who invoked the silly "gun culture" straw man argument....That you could provide some article from elsewhere invoking the same silly meme, doesn't suddenly make a straw man argument valid.
> 
> It's no more valid than blaming Rwanda's "machete culture" for the slaughter that went on there.
> 
> In any event, the one thing that is present in and common to all of those massacres is the completely unarmed and helpless victim.



Your country is awash with guns; you own 11 of the worst mass killings in the western world perpetrated by those carrying - generally - high powered weapons; and you easily own the highest homicide rate due to firearms the western world, yet my argument is a 'strawman'..

And you bringing Rwanda into the argument is what? A well thought out dissertion? 

No wonder your country is fucked when it comes to mass shootings. I think you should change your nick from Oddball to Ostrich-boy...


----------



## idb (Dec 16, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



Maybe the US and Somalia is a better comparison?


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 16, 2012)

The killings aren't due to guns. They're due to psycos. The guns were merely the method. Would you prefer IED's or knives or what?


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> The killings aren't due to guns. They're due to psycos. The guns were merely the method. Would you prefer IED's or knives or what?



I'd rather face a psycho with a knife than a gun. I can outrun somebody with a knife. Never known anybody to outrun a bullet.

That aside, gun reform is needed. Note I say 'reform'. This does not equate to taking away your precious phallic peashooters away from you...


----------



## squeeze berry (Dec 16, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



I bolded the part so that you can read it.

Hopefully you get the point now.


----------



## Oddball (Dec 16, 2012)

I'd rather shoot back.

But homicidal tyrants prefer unarmed peasants.


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

Oddball said:


> I'd rather shoot back.
> 
> But homicidal tyrants prefer unarmed peasants.



Ah, the real reason you want to keep your peashooters.

Paranoia that the govt are out to get me!


----------



## idb (Dec 16, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> The killings aren't due to guns. They're due to psycos. The guns were merely the method. Would you prefer IED's or knives or what?



The issue as I see it is the scale of killing that can be achieved with an automatic weapon.
Although not impossible, it's unlikely one person with a knife could kill 26 in one rampage.
Even if it did happen, it isn't likely to happen again within a few weeks or months.


----------



## Oddball (Dec 16, 2012)

idb said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > The killings aren't due to guns. They're due to psycos. The guns were merely the method. Would you prefer IED's or knives or what?
> ...


He could with a suicide vest packed with C-4....I can get the recipe for that stuff right off the interwebz.

You're just not going to stop a homicidal maniac.


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

Oddball said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



And why does the US seem to produce so many? And maybe you need tighter laws so people can't get C4, or punishment enough that they are deterred from trying to get it...


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 16, 2012)

An entire page of reactionary extremist hatred and blah blah blah.

Yes, we are going to need armed people inside the schools, and, yes, we are going to have to very carefully screen everyone who wants to own a gun.


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## idb (Dec 16, 2012)

Oddball said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Not a determined and resourceful one sure.
But with off-the-shelf weapons readily available, anyone having a shitty day can get themselves armed and out there killing before they have time to reconsider.

In my country, the ammunition and firearm have to be kept separated, with the weapon locked and disabled, perhaps by locking the bolt away separately as well.
One reason is so that the act of reassembling it requires more time and deliberation to try to reduce its use in a 'crime of passion'.


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## Oddball (Dec 16, 2012)

idb said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...


Won't stop the determined homicidal maniac.

Schools shootings aren't crimes of passion.


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## squeeze berry (Dec 16, 2012)

idb said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > The killings aren't due to guns. They're due to psycos. The guns were merely the method. Would you prefer IED's or knives or what?
> ...



I don't think you understand the difference between  semi-automatic and automatic.

Full auto ineeds a special federal license.


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## squeeze berry (Dec 16, 2012)

idb said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



will the cops randomly inspect the storage of your firearms?


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## Oddball (Dec 16, 2012)

idb said:


> In my country, the ammunition and firearm have to be kept separated, with the weapon locked and disabled, perhaps by locking the bolt away separately as well.
> One reason is so that the act of reassembling it requires more time and deliberation to try to reduce its use in a 'crime of passion'.



And do you politely ask the home invader thug to hold fast, while you assemble and load your weapon too?...How's that work out?


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## idb (Dec 16, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



I understand the difference but, fair enough, I don't know the details of the licencing system.


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## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



No.


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## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

Oddball said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > In my country, the ammunition and firearm have to be kept separated, with the weapon locked and disabled, perhaps by locking the bolt away separately as well.
> ...



People have firearms for pest control, not self-defence. Not very many people who live in cities have firearms.....


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## idb (Dec 16, 2012)

Oddball said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > In my country, the ammunition and firearm have to be kept separated, with the weapon locked and disabled, perhaps by locking the bolt away separately as well.
> ...



Oddly enough, gun crimes are very rare.
0.17 per 100,000 people compared to 2.98 in the US (according to slightly old info in Wikipedia List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)


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## Oddball (Dec 16, 2012)

idb said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...


Didn't ask you about gun crimes...I asked you about home invasions, sometimes known as "hot burglaries", which skyrocketed when England instituted its gun ban.


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## Skull Pilot (Dec 16, 2012)

Oddball said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...


hell he could have mowed down the kids at the bus stop with mom's car


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## idb (Dec 16, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



When you first get your licence they do but they don't routinely carry out inspections afterward.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 16, 2012)

idb said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



And you live in a country with a population about half of our New York City and your police don't carry firearms and don't want to, but in which more than half your population wants your police forces armed as they are concerned about increasing gun crime.  Australia is having the same problem.  The more they have passed legislation controlling firearms and extensive buy back programs, gun crime continues to rise.  It is only a matter of time in both countries that the citizenry will be thinking about better ability to protect themselves if the police are unable to do so.


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## Crackerjack (Dec 16, 2012)

So now people want license law-abiding gun owners because criminals misuse firearms.  Makes perfect sense!  

I never cease to be amazed how gun grabbers seem to think that the one law criminals will obey is the law keeping them from a firearm.


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## idb (Dec 16, 2012)

Oddball said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



Why limit your question to home invasions only?
What about tagging? Shitting on the lawn? Stealing the milk money?


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 16, 2012)

False comparison.

The discussion is guns.



Skull Pilot said:


> hell he could have mowed down the kids at the bus stop with mom's car


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

Oddball said:


> which skyrocketed when England instituted its gun ban.



Link please. Also link to the study that correlates the link between this gun 'ban' and this alleged increase in home invasions.

Talk about strawman...


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## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



1) Some police are armed. Anybody of the rank of Detective or above has the choice to carry a firearm. Most take that choice if they are working the night shift. Link to study of more than half the population wants the police armed. 
2) Australia is not having that problem at all. Not that I can see anyway. There have been a spate of drive-by shootings in the city's South-west perpetrated by two gangs. Hardly a crime wave.
3) Link to gun crime continuing to rise in Australia, please...


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> So now people want license law-abiding gun owners because criminals misuse firearms.  Makes perfect sense!
> 
> I never cease to be amazed how gun grabbers seem to think that the one law criminals will obey is the law keeping them from a firearm.



It won't stop them, but it will sort the wheat from the chafe....


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 16, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > So now people want license law-abiding gun owners because criminals misuse firearms.  Makes perfect sense!
> ...


Which will be of no use whatsoever.


----------



## Samson (Dec 16, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> False comparison.
> 
> The discussion is guns.
> 
> ...





False comparison?

So, you're saying the only way to committ mass murder will be with handguns?


Caligula disagrees.


----------



## idb (Dec 16, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



I'm not sure where you got the statistic about "more than half your population wants your police forces armed as they are concerned about increasing gun crime".
That isn't the sense that I have.

Could our low firearms homicide rate be due to our gun laws?
Firearms-related crimes are extremely newsworthy here.
I guess that criminals know that using a gun escalates the crime to a whole new level.


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## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



I know. It's too late for the US.


----------



## squeeze berry (Dec 16, 2012)

idb said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



I routinely keep my bolt action rifles stored with the bolts removed and the bolts seperate.

No accidents.

My two handguns are in strategic places. they are not loaded but can be loaded quickly.

I also have a couple tomahawks handy. 

The chances of a home invasion are slim in my area. Burglaries / theft are not uncommon. Thieves look for targets of opportunity. Not making it easy for burglars is the key. they steal from cars at night. 

they look for cash, drugs, electronics and guns. Usually handguns because that is what they can fence.

No i don't need an assault weapon, whatever that is. 
I do own some semi-autos and will not relinquish them voluntarily. 

I don't think they will steal my blackpowder guns. Theiy are on drugs and can't bother to figure out how to load and operate a percussion or flint firelock. 

Why would the gun grabbers want to take my flintlocks?

I don't believe they have the smarts to use them either judging from the ignorance of the gun grabbers on USMB.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 16, 2012)

We are talking about guns and the 2nd Amendment.

Yes, it is a false comparison.  The difference is DEGREE not KIND.  A shovel, machine tools, or a car does not offer the immense lethality of firearms.

The argument that it is the "person" not the "tool" is finished as a comment of relevance.

It is the lethality of firearms, Samson, and we have to deal iwth it.



Samson said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > False comparison.
> ...


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 16, 2012)

It is too late for you, Grump, if you won't think.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 16, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> We are talking about guns and the 2nd Amendment.
> 
> Yes, it is a false comparison.  The difference is DEGREE not KIND.  A shovel, machine tools, or a car does not offer the immense lethality of firearms.
> 
> ...



Wait a minute first you say



> The argument that it is the "person" not the "tool"


And then in the next sentence in your post you start talking about the tool?



> It is the lethality of firearms, Samson, and we have to deal iwth it.


So which is it the tool or the person?


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > squeeze berry said:
> ...



So you have two tomahawks and three firearms plus same antiques in case you get broken into and you live in a low-crime area?

Talk about paranoid.

I wouldn't be banging on about the smarts of 'gun grabbers' if you are so insecure you need that much fire power. 

I live in a similar area. Don't have a single firearm. Have a mean kitchen knife though!


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 16, 2012)

I know that the libtard gun-grabbing whores that are asking for statistics really couldnt give a shit whether statistics really are available or not or if they support their policies or not.

But for the record:

AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN



> Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:
> &#8226;In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
> &#8226;Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
> &#8226;Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
> ...


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> It is too late for you, Grump, if you won't think.



?


----------



## idb (Dec 16, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > squeeze berry said:
> ...



Good for you.
I'm not anti-gun - I own a few myself, but not for protection.
I lock my doors at night to stop entry into my garage to keep my toys and tools secure.

You obviously have a responsible and cautious attitude to gun ownership yourself, don't you feel a body like the NRA is a poor representative for the likes of you?


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> I know that the libtard gun-grabbing whores that are asking for statistics really couldnt give a shit whether statistics really are available or not or if they support their policies or not.
> 
> But for the record:
> 
> ...



Simply put:
1) I don't trust the source - there is no link to where these stats have come from.
2) There is also no attempt to corelate any link between these alleged increases in crime and the gun ban.
3) You also seem to be under the impression (and this also goes for the UK and NZ,too), that these countries strict gun laws have stopped people being armed and that these places were awash with guns in the first place. They were not. Compared to the US, these countries had bugger-all guns. BTW, in NZ and UK (not Australia), as long as I have a gun licence, I can go and buy a rifle or shotgun tomorrow. So you are posting under false premises...


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 16, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> I routinely keep my bolt action rifles stored with the bolts removed and the bolts seperate.
> 
> No accidents.



I own 7 guns, never disassembled any of them for storing, only to clean them, and I have owned them or other guns in similar quantity for the last thirty years. I also h ave had no accidents, though I had a close call once while in high school and it had nothing to do with how I stored them but clumsiness on the part of an acquaintence.

So why do you think removing the bolts is necesary?



squeeze berry said:


> My two handguns are in strategic places. they are not loaded but can be loaded quickly.



I carry a loaded gun daily but dont chamber a round. I know alot of CC types dont like that idea, but I dislike the idea of someone grabbing my gun and immediately shooting me withit. Unless they are familiar with my gun model they might not realize what to do when the trigger pull doesnt go bang.



squeeze berry said:


> The chances of a home invasion are slim in my area. Burglaries / theft are not uncommon. Thieves look for targets of opportunity. Not making it easy for burglars is the key. they steal from cars at night.
> 
> they look for cash, drugs, electronics and guns. Usually handguns because that is what they can fence.



Sounds like you live in what people used to call a nice neighborhood. These seem to an endangered species of neighborhood.



squeeze berry said:


> No i don't need an assault weapon, whatever that is.



Hence the rub when libtards ban 'assault weapons'. The definition is ambiguous if you arent using the military definition of fullly automatic weapons that keep firing as long as yo hold the trigger down.



squeeze berry said:


> I do own some semi-autos and will not relinquish them voluntarily.



But suppose they make it involuntary? I dont know what I would do.



squeeze berry said:


> Why would the gun grabbers want to take my flintlocks?
> 
> I don't believe they have the smarts to use them either judging from the ignorance of the gun grabbers on USMB.



The libtards get a warm fuzzy feeling when they disarm law abiding citizens or see them beaten up and/or robbed. They get really pissed if one of them dares to defend themselves and refer to it as vigilantiism.


----------



## Samson (Dec 16, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > I know that the libtard gun-grabbing whores that are asking for statistics really couldnt give a shit whether statistics really are available or not or if they support their policies or not.
> ...



Any comparison of Australia and the USA is more than a little ridiculous: Other than the fact that both places were originally English colonies, they have very few demographics in common.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 16, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > I know that the libtard gun-grabbing whores that are asking for statistics really couldnt give a shit whether statistics really are available or not or if they support their policies or not.
> ...



Of course you dont since it contradicts your libtard/fascist hostility to gun ownership. Ad hominem is about all you got.



Dr Grump said:


> there is no link to where these stats have come from.



It is an authoritative sight where their rep depends on giving accurate information. They dont need to provide fucking links. You are welcome to look for contrary data if you want to piss off your time.



Dr Grump said:


> 2) There is also no attempt to corelate any link between these alleged increases in crime and the gun ban.



Sure there is, it is all about corelation, but the causal links are not discussed.




Dr Grump said:


> 3) You also seem to be under the impression (and this also goes for the UK and NZ,too), that these countries strict gun laws have stopped people being armed and that these places were awash with guns in the first place. They were not. Compared to the US, these countries had bugger-all guns. BTW, in NZ and UK (not Australia), as long as I have a gun licence, I can go and buy a rifle or shotgun tomorrow. So you are posting under false premises...



I am under no such fucking assumption, impression or whatever other bullshit condescending clap trap you want to push out there.

I live in the most gun loving country on Earth, and grew up in the most gun loving state of this nation, TEXAS, where there are more armed adults than any other state in the country(though some smaller western states get points for percentage ownership, but who cares?)

I am fully aware of the sad little grasp at a shadow of security that these degenerate, emasculated populations in the UK, NZ and OZ have subscribed to and it is truly pathetic. That any fully grown law- abiding male would ever voluntarily give up his guns is a fucking truly heinous crime against nature.

The data was about AUSTRALIA's gun ban and compared the results to the US and so the UK and NZ is irrelevant to that specific comparison.

So disarming the US is not the easy-peasy situation that might lead a rasonable person to want to strip people of their God  given rights just to do some kind of predictable experiment as in Australia. We dont need to wait for a cop to show up and protect us from bad guys something that is very liberating and empowering. Not the kind of thing subjects of the Crown would comprehend.


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

Samson said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



True to a degree. I'm not doing the comparison. Jim is...


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 16, 2012)

Samson said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



It isnt ridiculous Einstein just because they are not exactly the same. Comparisons and contrasts of any two things or situations can be illuminating, no matter how different. A comparison two English speaking countries that are former colonies of the same exploitative empire is about as close a comparison as one can expect. What other country would you compare the US to that has banned guns that would be more relevant?

The US and Australia do have a lot in common except that the US has a far stronger gun culture than Australia, but if even the sheep in Australia have the balls to take advantage of gun bans and increase their crime rates, then it would be virtually chaos and bedlam in the US.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 16, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



Someone brought up relevant gun facts to which a libtard gave the immediate knee-jerk reflex and asked for some links, which I provided.

And what other nation would be more comparable to the US that has banned guns anyway, doofus?


----------



## FactFinder (Dec 16, 2012)

*Another school shooting....time to arm the teachers? *

They used to be armed with a little morning prayer. Seems to me a pretty strong correlation between when we kicked God out of schools and the escalation of horrendous events in schools.


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Of course you dont since it contradicts your libtard/fascist hostility to gun ownership. Ad hominem is about all you got.



I'd just settle for links so I can ascertain the credibility of the source and how the info was collected



JimBowie1958 said:


> It is an authoritative sight where their rep depends on giving accurate information. They dont need to provide fucking links. You are welcome to look for contrary data if you want to piss off your time.



Authoritive to who? Those gun nuts who like their peashooters like yourself? LOL. Good one! NOT...Pete Du Pont is onboard...Gee, no agenda there. From the site's "About Us" section. "Our goal is to develop and promote private, free-market alternatives to government regulation and control,"...



JimBowie1958 said:


> I live in the most gun loving country on Earth, and grew up in the most gun loving state of this nation, TEXAS, where there are more armed adults than any other state in the country(though some smaller western states get points for percentage ownership, but who cares?)
> .



 Give the guy a Kewpie Doll. So you live in Hickest town in the Hickest state in the Union....



JimBowie1958 said:


> I am fully aware of the sad little grasp at a shadow of security that these degenerate, emasculated populations in the UK, NZ and OZ have subscribed to and it is truly pathetic. That any fully grown law- abiding male would ever voluntarily give up his guns is a fucking truly heinous crime against nature..



You say that like it's a bad thing. IOW, we live our lives not running around with our peashooters scared out of our little brains that the govt's out to get me, or that I might be the victim of a home invasion. There's somebody around here scared shitless, but it ain't NZers, Aussies or Brits. 




JimBowie1958 said:


> The data was about AUSTRALIA's gun ban and compared the results to the US and so the UK and NZ is irrelevant to that specific comparison.



That's if the data can be believed and until you link to how it was gathered, who gathered it, and the parameters, it'll get the lipservice it deserves.




JimBowie1958 said:


> So disarming the US is not the easy-peasy situation that might lead a rasonable person to want to strip people of their God  given rights just to do some kind of predictable experiment as in Australia. We dont need to wait for a cop to show up and protect us from bad guys something that is very liberating and empowering. Not the kind of thing subjects of the Crown would comprehend.



Who wants to disarm the US. Gun control is not disarming. 
I may be a subject of the Crown, but I am so much more free than you will ever be, it beggar's belief...


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 16, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...


Please elaborate.


----------



## squeeze berry (Dec 16, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



thanks for the diagnosis Dr.

Am i paranoid to have 3 weeks worth of food, water, and firewood too?


----------



## ABikerSailor (Dec 16, 2012)

FactFinder said:


> *Another school shooting....time to arm the teachers? *
> 
> They used to be armed with a little morning prayer. Seems to me a pretty strong correlation between when we kicked God out of schools and the escalation of horrendous events in schools.



The kids in the Amish schoolhouse were "armed with a little morning prayer".  Why did they have to be killed?



> A milk-truck driver carrying three guns and a childhood grudge stormed a one-room Amish schoolhouse Monday, sent the boys and adults outside, barricaded the doors with two-by-fours, and then opened fire on a dozen girls, killing three people before committing suicide. Early Tuesday, two more children died of wounds, a hospital spokeswoman and state police said.
> 
> At least five other victims were critically wounded, authorities said.
> 
> ...



5 child dies after school shooting - US news - Crime & courts | NBC News


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## squeeze berry (Dec 16, 2012)

idb said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



the NRA is the only gun lobby. 


I don't think they are as evil as you make them out to be. That Pearce fellow is no one I ever heard of.

I know a couple guys over at NRA headquarters.

They are not so bad.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

Oddball said:


> I'd rather shoot back.
> 
> But homicidal tyrants prefer unarmed peasants.



Coincidentally, so do crazed gunmen on shooting sprees.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

idb said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > The killings aren't due to guns. They're due to psycos. The guns were merely the method. Would you prefer IED's or knives or what?
> ...



The guy in China got 22 with a knife, I believe.

And since it's already illegal to own automatic weapons, I really am missing the point of you talking about them at all.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

Oddball said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



Oh, he doesn't care about that.  He's been told that people aren't doing naughty things with those evil guns any more, so he feels all toasty warm and safe now, despite the fact that his country is actually more violent now that fools like him have disarmed the public.


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## FactFinder (Dec 16, 2012)

ABikerSailor said:


> FactFinder said:
> 
> 
> > *Another school shooting....time to arm the teachers? *
> ...



Were you there that morning. How would you know? Any input on the correlation of the escalation of the horrendous level of school violence since the advent of kicking God out of our schools?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

idb said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



You don't understand the difference between breaking into a home while the family is there, and shitting on the lawn?  Seriously?

You DO realize that you're too stupid to be taken seriously, and really shouldn't be allowed to comment on adult issues, right?


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 16, 2012)

JimBowie is a reactionary whore of the far right.

He babbles much and says nothing of import.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 16, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> JimBowie is a reactionary whore of the far right.
> 
> He babbles much and says nothing of import.



Damn  jake why do you accuse others of what you do?


----------



## idb (Dec 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Really?
How so?
Do you equate the lack of carrying guns with timidity?


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



I'd refrain from commenting on things you clearly have no idea about.

The public were never armed in the first place (not in the CCW way you are in the states), and any non-felon and sane person can get a fire arm if they so wish...


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Nova78 said:
> ...


Who says anyone would be wanting to train or arm the so called liberal teachers, whom like you imply maybe, that they are mentally screwed up themselves when engaing in the ways that they are teaching such classes ? I think the choices would be for those who are not to squimish to handle the job, and are not engaing in the things that you have mentioned that liberals like to engage in (i.e. going against their core nature), and oh wait a minute here, you act like only liberal teachers are in schools now, so how biased is that attitude ?


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> You DO realize that you're too stupid to be taken seriously, and really shouldn't be allowed to comment on adult issues, right?



Oh, boy...you should really take your own advice...seriously...


----------



## idb (Dec 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



You didn't read my post through your haze of gun-powder smoke.
When was the last mass shooting in the US?
When was the last mass stabbing?
Which one has the shortest interval?
Is the point a bit too vague for you?

I accept that automatic weapons might be illegal, but the point still remains about the extra carnage that can be achieved with greater fire rates and ammunition capacity.


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > squeeze berry said:
> ...



Yep.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

MikeK said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...


Are you living like in a box or something in the desert ? Where have you been ?


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


Whose gun culture ? Lets see now, there are two gun cultures in America, one is the good guy's gun culture (doesn't harm anyone) and then there is the bad guy's gun culture (harms many). Now who empowers the bad guy's gun culture more than anything in America, and who gives excuses for the perps everytime gun violence happens when these bad guy's go violent on us ? It's always the gun's to blame with these liberals, but never the perp other than saying he is mental, and a product of poverty and abuse that was cast upon him all his life because of those mean ole nasty parents or that rich guy, so don't put him in that electric chair please, because he is a human being that can be saved, even if he slaughtered the innocents like they were not human beings, so please don't. 

If we could get the liberals from slapping the wrist of killers, and to get them to stop the theft of guns by their underlings (children turned young thugs or criminals) in which they have convinced that their poverty and unstableness is someone elses fault always or they drug them into a state of violent thinking, then we might just get a handle on this situation in the near future again.

Nothing against liberals, other than I feel they are confused and possibly enablers without thinking they could be. I mean I love all people trust me, but we have to recognize the personalities and traits that are among us who have gotten in charge now, and we must help them not hurt us if they are enabling bad in the nation, but yet they don't think that they are enabling bad in the nation or society. Now I will say that gun shows or having to easy access to guns for all the wrong reasons needs to be heavily monitored right on, and also investigated if need be right on and on, and then strict provisions put in place to keep guns out of the hands of bad people, and yet without trampling on the rights of good people.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 16, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



Really a person is paranoid for having things they should have?


----------



## squeeze berry (Dec 16, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



that made me chuckle.

sometimes we get snowed in for a couple weeks. and occasionally the power goes out for days on end.

seems like you have redefined preparedness 

what are your other talents?


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

ABikerSailor said:


> FactFinder said:
> 
> 
> > *Another school shooting....time to arm the teachers? *
> ...


Yes that was a traggedy also, but I agree that our culture in America has changed, and it has give way to this kind of thing more and more afterwards, so regardless of your trying to counter with this, I think school prayer back in school would be a great starter to getting back on track in America, and the putting God back into everything as well, but you liberals will spin and spin and spin till your top comes off, while trying to counter what made America a lot less violent during specific times in America, and this where we all believed mostly in the same things and lived by the same rules in America.. 

Like I said before, what happened to the days when a child could go out at night as a 6 year old with other children, and enjoy a violence free evening trick or treating on Halloween, and then return home with a bag full of candy that would last till thanksgiving ? What happened to our freedoms is what I want to know, and I think I know, but the enablers are to sneaky for anyone to make anything stick to them in order to begin changing them or helping them (and) us get back to that peace for our children to have in America.


----------



## idb (Dec 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



What *is* the cut-off then?
Playing your music too loud in your car?
Walking back from the corner store carrying Skittles?


----------



## Coyote (Dec 16, 2012)

School shootings - indeed mass public shootings are very rare events - so rare you really can't predict or prepare.  Contrary to media coverage they really haven't been on the increase - it just seems that way because with the media today, there is no distance any more.  I think this piece sums it up best...

The deadliest school massacre in US history was in 1927. Why its aftermath matters now &#8211; Quartz



> In the end there were 38 children dead at the school, two teachers and four other adults.
> 
> I&#8217;m not talking about the horrific shooting in Connecticut today. I&#8217;m talking about the worst school murder in American history. It took place in Michigan, in 1927. A school board official, enraged at a tax increase to fund school construction, quietly planted explosives in Bath Township Elementary. Then, the day he was finally ready, he set off an inferno. When crowds rushed in to rescue the children, he drove up his shrapnel-filled car and detonated it, too, killing more people, including himself. And then, something we&#8217;d find very strange happened.
> 
> ...


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...


Good points, and to add I would say that why don't the liberals try allowing Christ/God back into everything in this nation where the free and good citizens want him ?  Then after years of this, maybe people would actually slow down on buying weapons or keeping weapons concealed on their person for protection in such a nation anylonger, but the liberals would rather this country go up in smoke or would rather to put it up under strict Nazi style control, before they would allow the option of Christ/God being a major influence in this nation again, and this even if many wanted that to be the case in a majority to happen again in America.

These liberals are being tried and are going through tribulation in America, but they won't budge, and so we all suffer under the collective as the libs love to refer to this nation's citizens now.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 16, 2012)

You are the same as JimeBowie, Roo, Daveman and other loons.

You babble, you offer nothing of worth, and the day approaches when you will have to be dealt with when you threaten the validity and safety of the American narrative.





bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie is a reactionary whore of the far right. He babbles much and says nothing of import.
> ...


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > squeeze berry said:
> ...



Well in that case, no.
Helps to have all info available....


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 16, 2012)

You reactionaries are going to fail, not prevail, on this issue.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 16, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> You are the same as JimeBowie, Roo, Daveman and other loons.
> 
> You babble, you offer nothing of worth, and the day approaches when you will have to be dealt with when you threaten the validity and safety of the American narrative.
> 
> ...



There you going yapping about something but not adding anything to the discussion.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

Coyote said:


> School shootings - indeed mass public shootings are very rare events - so rare you really can't predict or prepare.  Contrary to media coverage they really haven't been on the increase - it just seems that way because with the media today, there is no distance any more.  I think this piece sums it up best...
> 
> The deadliest school massacre in US history was in 1927. Why its aftermath matters now &#8211; Quartz
> 
> ...


To try and water this down with something that happened in 1928 is rediculous I feel, so I am saddened at the attempt.. These events are happening to much these days, and there are no comparisons as to the rates that these events are happening now in America..


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 16, 2012)

Discounting your unreal perception of what is America adds mightily to the discussion.

The loons like you do not rule the great majority of the citizens.



bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > You are the same as JimeBowie, Roo, Daveman and other loons.
> ...


----------



## Coyote (Dec 16, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> [
> To try and water this down with something that happened in 1928 is rediculous I feel, so I am saddened at the attempt.. These events are happening to much these days, and there are no comparisons as to the rates that these events are happening now in America..



It's not watering it down.  It's interjecting a bit of reality into the hysteria. They are, overall, very very rare events.  Rare events are hard to predict or to prepare for.

What evidence do you have that these events are happening more frequently?  According to this article, it is not happening more frequently: No rise in mass killings, but their impact is huge - WAFF-TV: News, Weather and Sports for Huntsville, AL


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 16, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Discounting your unreal perception of what is America adds mightily to the discussion.
> 
> The loons like you do not rule the great majority of the citizens.
> 
> ...


You're a disgusting little troll that doesn't even have control over his own bowel movement much less anyone else. But he does try to dictate what will be. Fucking trash.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

Coyote said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...


Kidding me right ??


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 16, 2012)

idb said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...


Cheap shots trying to label all with the mistakes of others eh, so beware of these little slicksters you all, because they got more tricks and idiocy up their sleves than the law allows... This is why nothing can be resolved in this nation, because of these excuse making spin mysters, and worse accusers of the bretheren, that are previlent now amongst the good people these days in America..


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

idb said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



No, I equate you with stupidity.  and I equate disarmament zealots in general with extreme stupidity.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

idb said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



No, the point still remains that YOU were talking about something that is already illegal.  So apparently, I read "through my haze of gunpowder (it's not hyphenated, Einstein) smoke" just fine.

If your point was about "greater fire rates and ammunition capacity", then perhaps NEXT time, you could try talking about THAT, instead of babbling out of your ass about something you THOUGHT was legal here, but isn't.

Better yet, you could just tend to your own backward country, and mind your fucking business about ours, particularly since you're bloviating about laws you don't even know.


----------



## bodecea (Dec 16, 2012)

idb said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Knocking on the wrong door at Halloween and not knowing enough English to stop when someone yells "Freeze!"?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2012)

idb said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Once again, you have redefined the statement, "If you have to ask, you're too stupid to understand the answer."

If you ever figure out how breaking into a home while the family is still there is JUST A BIT more dangerous and violent than spitting on the sidewalk, DO let me know, won't you?

Oh, and as for your utterly failed attempt at being clever in regards to the George Zimmerman case, let me just say . . . "Ooh, yet ANOTHER event in America which your opinion is unwelcomed, irrelevant, and uninformed beyond all belief."

We'll call you if we want instructions on raping sheep, though.


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> We'll call you if we want instructions on raping sheep, though.



Why would he interfere with your forte.....


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



= Just another gun nut. Just what the US needs...more rabid drones dribbling on about their gun 'right'

Here's one for you Cesspit, how about growing the fuck up...


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Better yet, you could just tend to your own backward country, and mind your fucking business about ours, particularly since you're bloviating about laws you don't even know.



Says the fat munter who comments on NZ laws without even knowing them....

Christ, was there ever such a Moron on a messageboard as ill informed as the Cesspit...


----------



## jillian (Dec 16, 2012)

FactFinder said:


> *Another school shooting....time to arm the teachers? *
> 
> They used to be armed with a little morning prayer. Seems to me a pretty strong correlation between when we kicked God out of schools and the escalation of horrendous events in schools.



that may be one of the most ridiculous attempts at a correlation that i've ever heard.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 16, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Discounting your unreal perception of what is America adds mightily to the discussion.
> ...



Starkey is a Tar Baby; his only accomplishment is to feel like he is tying you up with a bunch of his stupid lies and demands for documentation to keep you from helping to expose libtard bullshit.

It is best to completely ignore him since he never says anything of any use anyway, and I think just about everyone gets it now. Remember how he just knew that Romney should get the nomination because he would beat Obama  in the general election?

What a freaking dumbass joke.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 16, 2012)

jillian said:


> FactFinder said:
> 
> 
> > *Another school shooting....time to arm the teachers? *
> ...



So you dont actually read any of Starkey's posts?


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 16, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



True.

I think God is close to abandoning the US because of the fucking lying bastards that lead our country are among the most corrupt and degraded peices of moral manure to ever hold power. Hell they make Stalin look like a choir boy. It is the moral strength of every day Americans that keeps this country going DESPITE its 'leaders'.

And what you just posted will just piss libtards off like holy hell.


But I am sure you know that, lol.


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 17, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> True.
> 
> I think God is close to abandoning the US because of the fucking lying bastards that lead our country are among the most corrupt and degraded peices of moral manure to ever hold power. Hell they make Stalin look like a choir boy. It is the moral strength of every day Americans that keeps this country going DESPITE its 'leaders'.
> 
> ...



How can something that doesn't exist abandon anything you fruit loop...

Haven't you got a knife to sharpen somewhere...


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 17, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



How about you minding your own fucking business?

Disarming Americans is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, period.

Fuck off.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 17, 2012)

bodecea said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Unsurprisingly you dont get your facts straight and slander a good man who did what was right, shooting a person who broke into his home in the middle of the night and was apparently trying to rob him.

Unfortunately for the moron who invaded that mans home, 1. he had this twisted idea that faking a robbery was funny, bad move, and 2. The stupid fuck should have learned Engrish if he was going to pull dangerous practical jokes on armed Americans, Fucking idiot.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 17, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > True.
> ...



The Creator does so exist you ignorant bitch.

And yes, I keep all my knives razor sharp just for idiots like you.


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 17, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> The killings aren't due to guns. They're due to psycos. The guns were merely the method. Would you prefer IED's or knives or what?



Then why do you want psychos to be able to get guns.  

It would seem to me if you aren't a psycho, you shouldn't have to worry about background checks, screenings and licensing.


----------



## squeeze berry (Dec 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > The killings aren't due to guns. They're due to psycos. The guns were merely the method. Would you prefer IED's or knives or what?
> ...



so could you link us to one post from a pro-gun person that states they want psychos to have guns? 

otherwise you are just pulling stuff out of your ass once again which is par for the course from you


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 17, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



Reject God, and turn away from him, and reap the consequences...

However, keep in mind everything is according to his plan. We will see justice, and we will have our reward at the end. No matter what happens to us here. This is just a flash in the pan.


----------



## bodecea (Dec 17, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Uh, no.

Yoshihiro Hattori - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 17, 2012)

I acknowledge that I have no trouble tying up JimBowie and bigrebnc's delusions of grandeur with fact and honesty.

They are mere reactionary extremists, not conservative, and here for grins and chuckles only.



JimBowie1958 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 17, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Time for the "tool" nonsense to stop.  The differences between a car, a shovel, and an automatic weapon is a difference of kind not degree.  The exponential lethality of an automatic weapon or a Glock 17 clearly outweighs that of a car or shovel.



Really, Jakematters?

Tell you what, you stand on one end of a street with a Glock, I on the other with a moving car - we'll see who  prevails, 3,000 pound of moving steel or the gangsta wannabe...

Stupid fuck.



> 2nd Amendment rights are not absolute.  Common sense needs to come into play here.



To a fascist Obamabot like you, the BoR is a quaint notion at best.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 17, 2012)

The difference is KIND not DEGREE.

The firearm possesses the potential for a far great kill ratio than the car.

Your argument simply is not relevant anymore.


----------



## Gadawg73 (Dec 17, 2012)

99.9% of all guns do not kill.

Blacks are 13% of population and 60% of all gun homicides in America.
The politically incorrect facts that the media hides.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 17, 2012)

Not germane to the discussion.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 17, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> The difference is KIND not DEGREE.
> 
> The firearm possesses the potential for a far great kill ratio than the car.



Bullshit.



> Answer:
> about 1 million people each year get hit by an car. They either die or get serious injuries.



How many people get hit by a car each year

You're a complete moron.



> Your argument simply is not relevant anymore.



Never let a tragedy go to waste, eh Jakematters?


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 17, 2012)

Just to keep it in perspective, most of the adults who died at Sandy Hook Elementary did so by using their unarmed bodies trying to stop the shooter and/or the several HUNDRED bullets he fired.

And the madman's other targets were these:






How do any of you justify arming teachers would somehow be worse than that?


----------



## KissMy (Dec 17, 2012)

Obama sells more guns in this country than anyone else. He could end this if he would just embrace the second amendment of the constitution that he promised to uphold when he was sworn in on inauguration day.


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

So teachers are trustworthy enough to be left with children, but not trustworthy enough to handle a firearm.  But we trust an eighteen-year-old soldier with only weeks of training with an "assault weapon," but a person has to have a four-year degree and certification to be trusted with kids.

Got it.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 17, 2012)

KissMy said:


> Obama sells more guns in this country than anyone else. He could end this if he would just embrace the second amendment of the constitution that he promised to uphold when he was sworn in on inauguration day.



This weekend was insane. Everyone in California was in Turners looking to buy firearms.

Scumbags like Diane Feinstein who use tragedy to promote their agenda are much of the reason.

Feinstein will introduce assault weapons ban in Senate


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 17, 2012)

The norwegian killed 77 people with his guns.

How many cars are necessary for a homicidal maniac to kill ten people?

Your argument is not relevant, Uncensored.





Uncensored2008 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > The difference is KIND not DEGREE.
> ...


----------



## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> So teachers are trustworthy enough to be left with children, but not trustworthy enough to handle a firearm.  But we trust an eighteen-year-old soldier with only weeks of training with an "assault weapon," but a person has to have a four-year degree and certification to be trusted with kids.
> 
> Got it.


the key word to your rant is "training".


----------



## KissMy (Dec 17, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> 99.9% of all guns do not kill.
> 
> Blacks are 13% of population and 60% of all gun homicides in America.
> The politically incorrect facts that the media hides.



Once they start profiling which US citizens they are going to strip of their rights. There will be a huge outcry when a certain race loses more than others.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 17, 2012)

The legislation will not pass, not a chance.

However, I do think BHO will use the promise of withdrawal of the proposal in return for GOP compromise with the tax and cut plan.



Uncensored2008 said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> > Obama sells more guns in this country than anyone else. He could end this if he would just embrace the second amendment of the constitution that he promised to uphold when he was sworn in on inauguration day.
> ...


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

LeftCoastVoter said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > So teachers are trustworthy enough to be left with children, but not trustworthy enough to handle a firearm.  But we trust an eighteen-year-old soldier with only weeks of training with an "assault weapon," but a person has to have a four-year degree and certification to be trusted with kids.
> ...


"Rant"?  

So teachers can't be trained?


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> So teachers are trustworthy enough to be left with children, but not trustworthy enough to handle a firearm.  But we trust an eighteen-year-old soldier with only weeks of training with an "assault weapon," but a person has to have a four-year degree and certification to be trusted with kids.
> 
> Got it.



It is easy enough to train an adult in firearm use, safety and target practice

Taking that teacher and pointing them at a crazed, armed to the teeth gunman and saying.....go get him ...is a different story

If an armed guard or policeman came upon that scene and lacked proper weapons and body armor, they would have been advised to wait for backup

Yet you want to send a teacher into the fray


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > So teachers are trustworthy enough to be left with children, but not trustworthy enough to handle a firearm.  But we trust an eighteen-year-old soldier with only weeks of training with an "assault weapon," but a person has to have a four-year degree and certification to be trusted with kids.
> ...


Okay, we should just let them be shot with no recourse whatsoever.  Cool.


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



You are asking a teacher to do single handedly  what a SWAT team takes years of training to accomplish


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


You are saying that, since a teacher is not a SWAT officer, s/he won't be of any use in any situation whatsoever and should simply settle for being gunned down like a rabid dog?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 17, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> The norwegian killed 77 people with his guns.
> 
> How many cars are necessary for a homicidal maniac to kill ten people?
> 
> Your argument is not relevant, Uncensored.



Jakematters; you're so very, very stupid.







Elderly Driver Mows Down Group of Bicyclists in Shandong &#8211; chinaSMACK
Centenarian driver mows down schoolkids - Video on TODAY.com
Driver, 87, Mows Down Memorial Ride Motorcyclists, Killing 2
Hit-and-run driver &#8216;mows down&#8217; 12 in 30 minutes


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



I am asking a teacher to do no more than a trained SWAT team would do. Individual SWAT members do not run in armed with a handgun, without armor and without backup. Yet idiot gun nut fantasies expect a freaking first grade teacher to do it


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 17, 2012)

Uncensored refuses to fact facts and context.

Let's see you get an auto in a school, down the hallways, into the classrooms.

Grow up and face reality.

The tool argument is not relevant.


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


It doesn't take a SWAT team member to return fire.


----------



## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> LeftCoastVoter said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...


your statement did not address firearms training for teachers. but yes they could be trained, however that decision would need to be made the parents of the children and school boards.


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

LeftCoastVoter said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > LeftCoastVoter said:
> ...


Couple that with vouchers for parents who aren't comfortable with this to send their kids elsewhere and I see no issues.


----------



## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 17, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


we should mandate that all children wear body armor as part of their school uniform now. i mean, its a perfectly good solution.....


----------



## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> LeftCoastVoter said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...


if they are that afraid, they can homeschool


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2012)

SWAT - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

_  SWAT team members' duties include: performing hostage rescues and counter-terrorism operations; serving high risk arrest and search warrants; subduing barricaded suspects; and engaging heavily-armed criminals. SWAT teams are often equipped with specialized firearms including submachine guns, assault rifles, breaching shotguns, riot control agents, stun grenades, and sniper rifles. They have specialized equipment including heavy body armor, ballistic shields, entry tools, armored vehicles, advanced night vision optics, and motion detectors for covertly determining the positions of hostages or hostage takers inside enclosed structures.

_

Shit yea......a First Grade teacher can do that.  Just hand them a gun and say....Go get him


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## Uncensored2008 (Dec 17, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Uncensored refuses to fact facts and context.
> 
> Let's see you get an auto in a school, down the hallways, into the classrooms.
> 
> ...



You're a stupid little cocksucker, Jakematters.

You got spanked again for your lies.


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## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> SWAT - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> _  SWAT team members' duties include: performing hostage rescues and counter-terrorism operations; serving high risk arrest and search warrants; subduing barricaded suspects; and engaging heavily-armed criminals. SWAT teams are often equipped with specialized firearms including submachine guns, assault rifles, breaching shotguns, riot control agents, stun grenades, and sniper rifles. They have specialized equipment including heavy body armor, ballistic shields, entry tools, armored vehicles, advanced night vision optics, and motion detectors for covertly determining the positions of hostages or hostage takers inside enclosed structures.
> 
> ...


So we're back to letting everyone get slaughtered, because nobody could ever possibly shoot back without SWAT training.

We should probably teach kids to all line up against the wall in the event of a shooting too.  Because only someone with  SWAT training could run away from a gunman.


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## koshergrl (Dec 17, 2012)

LeftCoastVoter said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...


 
Progressive ghouls are always up for punishing children...


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## Uncensored2008 (Dec 17, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> I am asking a teacher to do no more than a trained SWAT team would do. Individual SWAT members do not run in armed with a handgun, without armor and without backup. Yet idiot gun nut fantasies expect a freaking first grade teacher to do it



This moron attacked 5 year olds, return fire would have the coward pissing himself. 

Look, all you're doing is shamelessly leveraging a tragedy in hopes of promoting your war against civil liberties.

You should be ashamed of yourself, but that would take integrity.


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## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 17, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > I am asking a teacher to do no more than a trained SWAT team would do. Individual SWAT members do not run in armed with a handgun, without armor and without backup. Yet idiot gun nut fantasies expect a freaking first grade teacher to do it
> ...


and the right is leveraging every tragedy as an excuse to get more guns into the hands of the public. so what makes your argument so much more convincing?


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > SWAT - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...



A lone police officer without body armor would be advised to wait for backup. Yet, in the mythical world of gun nuts, they expect teachers to take on gunmen single handedly.

Hey, John McClane did it in Die Hard


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## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 17, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> LeftCoastVoter said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


actually this would be protecting children. only in your eyes would that be a punishment.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 17, 2012)

LeftCoastVoter said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > So teachers are trustworthy enough to be left with children, but not trustworthy enough to handle a firearm.  But we trust an eighteen-year-old soldier with only weeks of training with an "assault weapon," but a person has to have a four-year degree and certification to be trusted with kids.
> ...



Well, I'm so glad that you were able to point out to us that we were recklessly proposing to arm teachers with no training at all.

Oh, wait, we weren't.


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## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 17, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


yippie ki-yay mutherfucker!


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## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 17, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> LeftCoastVoter said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...


yes, we want young teacher to have firearms training as part of their credential program. that will solve all the problems. until a student gets a hold of that gun and uses against the teacher. then what will your excuse be? that they need to have it on their hip at all times?


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



I don't want to "send" teachers into anything.  They're already IN the fray, apparently.  The crazy gunmen are TAKING the fray TO the teachers.  I just want to let them face the fray coming at them with some self-protection.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 17, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > The norwegian killed 77 people with his guns.
> ...



I remember a story in the late 70s, early 80s, about a woman who decided to drive her car into a crowd of Thanksgiving tourists in Las Vegas to see how many she could "get".  Only reason she was stopped with her first pass through the crowd, instead of continuing to drive along and hit more people - and she "got" 10 or so on just that first pass - was because there was a police car sitting on the side of the road nearby.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



Who said anything about teachers "running in" anywhere?  They're already IN there, if by "there" we mean "the classroom that the crazed gunman is approaching".  Armed homeowners manage to deal with burglars entering their homes and coming toward them with guns all the time.  Why do we think teachers are so incompetent that they can't do the same thing?


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## Uncensored2008 (Dec 17, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> I remember a story in the late 70s, early 80s, about a woman who decided to drive her car into a crowd of Thanksgiving tourists in Las Vegas to see how many she could "get".  Only reason she was stopped with her first pass through the crowd, instead of continuing to drive along and hit more people - and she "got" 10 or so on just that first pass - was because there was a police car sitting on the side of the road nearby.



Mass killings with cars happen all the time. Morons like Jakematters ignore them because they don't promote the leftist agenda of revoking civil rights.


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2012)

LeftCoastVoter said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > LeftCoastVoter said:
> ...



Actually, they are proposing open carry for teachers in the classroom


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## koshergrl (Dec 17, 2012)

If children were being killed regularly, I'm sure he would find a way to justify it.


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Shoot at anything that moves...let god sort them out


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## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 17, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> LeftCoastVoter said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


yup thats a brilliant idea. let put more guns near children.


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2012)

LeftCoastVoter said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > LeftCoastVoter said:
> ...



Only way to keep them safe


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## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 17, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> LeftCoastVoter said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


home school would be safer. if they arent there then they cant be in harms way.


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2012)

LeftCoastVoter said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > LeftCoastVoter said:
> ...



Adam Lanza was home schooled


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## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 17, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> LeftCoastVoter said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


yet he was never attacked in his home. 

all im stating is that it would be safer to home school your child rather than arm teachers if your worried about public school shootings.


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## KissMy (Dec 17, 2012)

LeftCoastVoter said:


> yup thats a brilliant idea. let put more guns near children.



Utah teachers have always carried concealed guns.

Ever hear of a school massacre in Utah??? - NO!


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## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Yes, so since nobody could ever return fire, we might as well just teach the kids to sit still and wait their turn to be shot.


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## Dr Grump (Dec 17, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > I remember a story in the late 70s, early 80s, about a woman who decided to drive her car into a crowd of Thanksgiving tourists in Las Vegas to see how many she could "get".  Only reason she was stopped with her first pass through the crowd, instead of continuing to drive along and hit more people - and she "got" 10 or so on just that first pass - was because there was a police car sitting on the side of the road nearby.
> ...



Only a moronic fuckstain with the IQ of an ameoba would equate gun rights to civil rights..

Oh, wait a minute.....that's right...

Carry on


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## Dr Grump (Dec 17, 2012)

Yeah, to live in a country where everybody is armed...

What a Nirvana that sounds like....


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## koshergrl (Dec 17, 2012)

We already live in a country where everybody is armed.

The thing is, progressives want to disarm anyone who might be able to protect our children.

Which shows you what they think of our children.


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## Uncensored2008 (Dec 17, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> Only a moronic fuckstain with the IQ of an ameoba would equate gun rights to civil rights..
> 
> Oh, wait a minute.....that's right...
> 
> Carry on



Forrest, I equate all 10 amendments in the BoR to civil rights.

If you weren't stupid as a petrified cat turd, you would too...


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## Dr Grump (Dec 17, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> We already live in a country where everybody is armed.
> 
> The thing is, progressives want to disarm anyone who might be able to protect our children.
> 
> Which shows you what they think of our children.



1) No, I think you'll find rational people want certain types of firearms banned. 
2) They want people to go through checks to make sure they are sane enough to be allowed a firearm.
3) They want strict laws to be enforced on those who have firearms illegally.
4) They want a sane and rational debate on the issue, not just reactionary blather from gun nuts who think the govt is out to get them.
5) It is those same gun nuts who are stiffling debate, which is not a good thing.
6) Would you rather live in a society that is similar to Europe, or similar to Africa or Central America?


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## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 17, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> We already live in a country where everybody is armed.
> 
> The thing is, progressives want to disarm anyone who might be able to protect our children.
> 
> Which shows you what they think of our children.


why do you continue to lie? no one is talking about a full gun ban, only restrictions on the purchase of certain types of assault weapons and high capacity magazines.


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## Dr Grump (Dec 17, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Only a moronic fuckstain with the IQ of an ameoba would equate gun rights to civil rights..
> ...



You may think the turd you just laid is Finian's Rainbow - doesn't mean it is...


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## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> Yeah, to live in a country where everybody is armed...
> 
> What a Nirvana that sounds like....


Beats living in a country where only the bad guys are armed.

But you don't even live here, so your opinion is worthless anyway.

Carry on.


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## Dr Grump (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, to live in a country where everybody is armed...
> ...



1) But if you have laws that are properly enforced, the bad guys get less guns. Ditto if you don't have a society awash with them...Of course the NRA and their proxies - the manufacturers - will brainwash you to think otherwise..

2) Ah, yes, the vacuous argument of the neocon whackjob...fantastic!


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## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...


... and if frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump their asses.

Idiot.


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## Dr Grump (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



Yeah, you ALMOST live in a third world country when it comes to the proliferation of firearms.

You worry about the government taking your guns in case they "turn" on you.

You have this fascination with firearms that make your country the leading cause of deaths with firearms in the western world.

You own 11 of the 20 worst massacres involving firearms in the Western World.

And I'm the idiot.

If you can't see the detrimental affect the proliferation of firearms has on your society - without any REASONABLE - checks and balances (other than - best whiney voice - "oh, but my second amendment rights are much more important than a civilised society"), then there is an idiot here all right. It sure as shit ain't me...


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## Uncensored2008 (Dec 17, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> You may think the turd you just laid is Finian's Rainbow - doesn't mean it is...



What I think is that you are a mentally deficient foreigner attempting to dictate U.S. policy sans even rudimentary knowledge of the rights crafted into the founding documents of the nation.


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## Dr Grump (Dec 17, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > You may think the turd you just laid is Finian's Rainbow - doesn't mean it is...
> ...



What you _think_, and what _is_, are about as far apart as your common sense is from your asshole. IOW, light years...


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## Uncensored2008 (Dec 17, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



Actually fuckwad, what I posted is 100% on target.

We all know this.


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## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...


And just think, according to your logic, all this would go away as if by magic if the law against murder were enforced.  Because, you know, it's just that easy.

Shut the fuck up, you statist piece of offal.  You are either incredibly stupid or incredibly naïve, or possibly both.  Either way, your opinion isn't worth a squirt of piss, so project your feelings of sexual inadequacy on someone else, dickhole.

Dismissed.


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## Dr Grump (Dec 17, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



No, only Neocon whackjobs "know" this. And what neocon whackjobs know on any subject (going by the drivel you/they post on these boards), you'd have problems putting on a postage stamp


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 17, 2012)

Too Stupid Cecilie1200.

Difference of DEGREE not KIND.  Your argument is not relevant.

Cars are less lethal in mass potential than firearms.

Only a radical extremist would be as silly as you.



Cecilie1200 said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...


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## Politico (Dec 17, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> Yeah, to live in a country where everybody is armed...
> 
> What a Nirvana that sounds like....



It does give me a warm fuzzy feeling I must admit.


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## Uncensored2008 (Dec 17, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> No, only Neocon whackjobs "know" this. And what neocon whackjobs know on any subject (going by the drivel you/they post on these boards), you'd have problems putting on a postage stamp



You don't even know what a "neocon" is, Gump.

You are but a poorly trained monkey shouting your rage over ideas you can never hope to grasp.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 17, 2012)

The amoebic parasites from the radical right endanger this country.



Dr Grump said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


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## Dr Grump (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



No, no, no. I don't expect it to happen over night. Only a moron would think that (oh, wait, that is what you think!).

Over time though - and it would take time - there would be less guns in your society and it would make it easier to prosecute those who had them illegally. It won't happen though as long as the neocon whackjobs believe the govt is after them and they are running scared from their own shadows...

Ah, yes, the term "statist". They latest loon-fringe rightest buzzword that is some how supposed to pigeon-hole us normal folk so as to make you loons feel like you are in control..

RATFLMAO...this is better than Monty Python (well, almost)....

I do find it ironic that you - a gun-totting whackjob - accuse me of sexual inadequacy when we all know what your peashooter is a subsitute for....


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 17, 2012)

Only a parasitic radical extremist like Uncensored does not get that he is describing his own rage.

Change is coming that you won't like and you won't be able to stop.





Uncensored2008 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > No, only Neocon whackjobs "know" this. And what neocon whackjobs know on any subject (going by the drivel you/they post on these boards), you'd have problems putting on a postage stamp
> ...


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## jillian (Dec 17, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



Who's "we all"?

Normal people are laughing at you


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## Dr Grump (Dec 17, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > No, only Neocon whackjobs "know" this. And what neocon whackjobs know on any subject (going by the drivel you/they post on these boards), you'd have problems putting on a postage stamp
> ...



Oh, yes, the old "He doesn't know what a neocon is" mantra. Words change over time. Communists in the USSR and China were not communists at all. They were totalitarian whackjobs, but we now know them as Communists. The original meaning of the word has changed.

I am not even shouting. I find this mildly amusing because I see certain aspects of your society living in the dark ages, attached to an amendment in a document written over 200 years ago by some dead guys, who the likes of you seem to deify as if they were gods or had the answers to all the world's problems. They were human just like you and I, and had flaws, just like you and I.


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## Gadawg73 (Dec 17, 2012)

I bet this kid was forced to take Ritalyn or some other mind altering dope since 5th grader to "to calm him down", had no father in the house, was not disciplined correctly, played violent video games 60 hours a week, was bullied at school and no teacher had the guts to stand up for him and had no male influence in his life.
Yet guns are at fault.
Until you blind bats admit that the above factors that have been accepted as OK in our society and growing like wild fire for the last 50 years and ACCEPTED AS A NORMAL WAY TO RAISE A YOUNG BOY expect more of the same.
Our culture has changed and he is the result of it.
Except if you folks get your way it will be intentional car crashes at street parties, mass poisoning and random events before these abandoned youth get caught.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 17, 2012)

Laughter rings when Uncensored, and Roo, and bigrebnc, and daveman, and Cecilie, and all the radical extremists claim they are mainstream.  



jillian said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 17, 2012)

I agree that the "modern" way of "raising" troubled youth is wrong, simply and absolutely wrong.

But we start with the guns and access to them by troubled folks,  Then we move on the troubled folks themselves.

The state institutions for the Uncensoreds, their kind, and the troubled youth must be reopened.



Gadawg73 said:


> I bet this kid was forced to take Ritalyn or some other mind altering dope since 5th grader to "to calm him down", had no father in the house, was not disciplined correctly, played violent video games 60 hours a week, was bullied at school and no teacher had the guts to stand up for him and had no male influence in his life.
> Yet guns are at fault.
> Until you blind bats admit that the above factors that have been accepted as OK in our society and growing like wild fire for the last 50 years and ACCEPTED AS A NORMAL WAY TO RAISE A YOUNG BOY expect more of the same.
> Our culture has changed and he is the result of it.
> Except if you folks get your way it will be intentional car crashes at street parties, mass poisoning and random events before these abandoned youth get caught.


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## LilOlLady (Dec 17, 2012)

Arm the teachers? Hell no. Just another crazy with a gun. Teachers would have to walk around with their fingers on the trigger because is someone want to shoot up a classroomknow ing the teacher was armed, they would take out the teacher first. You people don't get it. The problem is not guns but people who use guns with bullets to kill.


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## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

Jake and Grump ought to get a room together.  They can protect each other from the scary guns.

Only one problem: which one will wear the strap on?


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## squeeze berry (Dec 17, 2012)

KissMy said:


> LeftCoastVoter said:
> 
> 
> > yup thats a brilliant idea. let put more guns near children.
> ...



too bad I live so far from Utah


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## Dr Grump (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> Jake and Grump ought to get a room together.  They can protect each other from the scary guns.
> 
> Only one problem: which one will wear the strap on?



I'm not scared of guns.
Nor am I scared of where I live
I don't own a gun because I don't live in fear - of other people or my govt.. But don't worry, I'm a mere subject, while you are a citizen in the land of the 'free'....


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## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> I'm not scared of guns.


You sure do post a lot about getting rid of those scary guns for a guy who isn't scared of them.  Almost as though you had some sort of phobia ...

It's okay though.  None of my big, bad guns can sprout legs and get you, sweetie.


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## Dr Grump (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not scared of guns.
> ...



Why would I be scared of guns? There aren't any around here..
I don't even want to get rid of guns...just regulate them...shrug...


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## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...


I don't know why you are scared of guns either.  

I'm sure there are support groups for that somewhere.


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## Dr Grump (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



I wasn't saying I was scared of guns..

Although an interesting insight would be as to why you are obssessed with them....


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## Politico (Dec 17, 2012)

I'm scared of them. There's one on my table but I don't know what it will do if I approach it


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



Sure is easy isn't it?  With teachers, it would be one shot, one kill

Once we arm our teachers, what happens when:

- A teacher overreacts to a threat from a student and shoots him dead
- A teacher turns a hostage situation into a killing zone
- Students find a teachers gun when it is momentarily unattended and kills another student
- A teacher misinterprets an intruder and shoots him dead
- A teacher who is poorly trained in confronting a deranged killer is needlessly killed for the effort?

Professional law enforcement deals with these challenges every day and make wrong decisions......How can we expect those who went to school to educate small children make better decisions in a life or death situation?


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## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...


You don't need to say anything.  Your fear is quite obvious.  I mean, it's all you talk about.  It's all you hear others talk about.

Sometimes it takes an outsider to see it.  Once you recognize it yourself, you can then work towards conquering your fear.


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## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

Politico said:


> I'm scared of them. There's one on my table but I don't know what it will do if I approach it


Sometimes they go off all by themselves, you know.

You should probably call someone from the Brady campaign to hold your hand and take away the scary gun.


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## Dr Grump (Dec 17, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



B-b-b-but don't you know if everybody is armed, people will be nicer to each other and there will be no deaths caused by firearms? Get with the program!


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## JoeB131 (Dec 17, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Again, you don't have to say you are for something to allow it... 

Until the right wing comes up with THEIR plan to keep guns out of the hands of people like Lanza and Holmes, at least the left is coming to the table WITH a plan.  

You guys shrug your shoulders and blurt out some crap about "Well, the Founding Slave-Rapers wanted us to have guns... or something."


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## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


I totally agree.  Let the mentally ill come in and mow everyone down unimpeded instead.  That's a far better option.


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## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

What does it say when you can't trust your child's teacher with a firearm, but you can trust him with your child??  If I can't trust him with a gun, I damn sure can't trust him with my kid.


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



It is the NRA who protects the rights of the mentally ill to purchase the weapons of their choice


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> What does it say when you can't trust your child's teacher with a firearm, but you can trust him with your child??  If I can't trust him with a gun, I damn sure can't trust him with my kid.



I trust teachers to educate my children and prepare them for life. I don't trust untrained individuals with guns around my children.


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## koshergrl (Dec 17, 2012)

Arguing against protecting children, again.


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## KissMy (Dec 17, 2012)

Sign The Arm The Teachers Petition! 7,269 signed so far.

The state of Utah has always allowed teachers to carry guns in class & has never had an incident. Why can't we all have that?


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Arguing against protecting children, again.



How many children have you protected with your guns?


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## koshergrl (Dec 17, 2012)

Two. How about you?


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## koshergrl (Dec 17, 2012)

School shooting stopped by armed citizens...

8 dead...instead of 28:

Mercaz HaRav massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## JoeB131 (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> What does it say when you can't trust your child's teacher with a firearm, but you can trust him with your child??  If I can't trust him with a gun, I damn sure can't trust him with my kid.



I think it's a matter of what you trust him to do by his training. 

He's trustworthy to be with  children because to become a teacher, he had to go to school for at least 6 years learning how to teach a subject and handle children.  

He's not a trained soldier or policeman.  So I'd be a little more worried with him with a gun, and frankly, if we are going to make "basic marksmanship" a part of teacher training, then we really do have too many guns in this country.


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## squeeze berry (Dec 17, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Two. How about you?



what a coincidence. that is his IQ


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 17, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> School shooting stopped by armed citizens...
> 
> 8 dead...instead of 28:
> 
> Mercaz HaRav massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Not really.  Israel is an apartheid police state, and even with that, a crazed gunman with little trainign was still able to rack up a pretty good body count.


----------



## 9thIDdoc (Dec 17, 2012)

_Until the right wing comes up with THEIR plan to keep guns out of the hands of people like Lanza and Holmes, at least the left is coming to the table WITH a plan. _

[I]What plan? Gun control has failed miserably.[/I]


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > What does it say when you can't trust your child's teacher with a firearm, but you can trust him with your child??  If I can't trust him with a gun, I damn sure can't trust him with my kid.
> ...



So you believe if we have too many guns in this country, the best idea is to make damn sure the schools can't protect the kids sitting there, like fish in a barrel?

Good plan, if your plan is to depopulate the earth.

Wait....


----------



## KissMy (Dec 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > What does it say when you can't trust your child's teacher with a firearm, but you can trust him with your child??  If I can't trust him with a gun, I damn sure can't trust him with my kid.
> ...



Getting a CCW license in my state requires basic marksmanship & much more to get a CCW license. Many teachers already have those license & could carry in class tomorrow if they were allowed to. Sign The Arm The Teachers Petition! 7,269 signed so far.


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 17, 2012)

9thIDdoc said:


> _Until the right wing comes up with THEIR plan to keep guns out of the hands of people like Lanza and Holmes, at least the left is coming to the table WITH a plan. _
> 
> _What plan? Gun control has failed miserably._



You don't have gun control, so how do you know if it has failed?


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 17, 2012)

9thIDdoc said:


> _Until the right wing comes up with THEIR plan to keep guns out of the hands of people like Lanza and Holmes, at least the left is coming to the table WITH a plan. _
> 
> _What plan? Gun control has failed miserably._



I'm sorry, when was it ever tried?  In the US. 

It was done in other industrialized countries and has been an Awesome success, but since you don't want to count the foreigners...


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2012)

9thIDdoc said:


> _Until the right wing comes up with THEIR plan to keep guns out of the hands of people like Lanza and Holmes, at least the left is coming to the table WITH a plan. _
> 
> [I]What plan? Gun control has failed miserably.[/I]



270 million guns in our country has failed miserably


----------



## KissMy (Dec 17, 2012)

Texas School District Will Let Teachers Carry Guns


----------



## 9thIDdoc (Dec 17, 2012)

_ So I'd be a little more worried with him with a gun, and frankly, if we are going to make "basic marksmanship" a part of teacher training, then we really do have too many guns in this country. _

Bullshit. What does he/she learn that is more important than how to keep the lives placed in his/her care safe? If the schools can't be trusted to do that they will soon have no pupils to teach and teachers will be out of a job.


----------



## 9thIDdoc (Dec 17, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > _Until the right wing comes up with THEIR plan to keep guns out of the hands of people like Lanza and Holmes, at least the left is coming to the table WITH a plan. _
> ...



Wrong.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 17, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Its better than the teacher being only able to cover the children with their own bodies, genius.  /sarc


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > What does it say when you can't trust your child's teacher with a firearm, but you can trust him with your child??  If I can't trust him with a gun, I damn sure can't trust him with my kid.
> ...



No one needs to get a 4 year degree to shoot a fucking gun, dumbass liar.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 17, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


That is incorrect. Resource officers which are police officers who are assigned to schools are not trained in swat tactics or combat training. I wished you asshole gun grabbers would stop with the knee jerk reaction.


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



Any retard can fire a gun

That is why we have so many murders


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 17, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > _Until the right wing comes up with THEIR plan to keep guns out of the hands of people like Lanza and Holmes, at least the left is coming to the table WITH a plan. _
> ...



Connecticut has some of the toughest gun control laws of any state.
Gun control does not work.


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > 9thIDdoc said:
> ...



Neither does armed mothers


----------



## Gadawg73 (Dec 17, 2012)

I love it how now everything is broken down to us versus them right wing versus left wing.
To avoid addressing the real issues which are not guns.
I am pro women's rights, pro gay rights, pro gay marriage, against the wars, want to close obsolete military bases and am pro choice for women.
But when it comes to gun rights I am labeled a right wing conservative.
The liberal talks a MEAN game about diversity as long as it is how folks look and act ONLY.
They are opposed to diversity of thought and ideas. If those differ in any way other than their certain set of talking points on any issue they disagree with you on you are immediately labeled either a racist, homophobe, woman hater, senior hater and now a child hater.


----------



## Gadawg73 (Dec 17, 2012)

Drugs are illegal.
Name a state where drugs can not be easily obtained.
Ditto for guns. 
And where in The Constitution does it state one has a right to obtain an do illegal drugs?


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


I wouldn't know.  I resigned my membership when they endorsed Romney.

Anyway, Gun Owners of America is far superior.


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > What does it say when you can't trust your child's teacher with a firearm, but you can trust him with your child??  If I can't trust him with a gun, I damn sure can't trust him with my kid.
> ...


I guess you missed the part where I said we should train them.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > The killings aren't due to guns. They're due to psycos. The guns were merely the method. Would you prefer IED's or knives or what?
> ...


It's because of liberals like you, that the good guy's have to worry about background checks an licensing and such now, meanwhile the physco's are not worrying about those sorts of things at all, because they are not so physco that they can't figure how to get guns illegally (steal them), and then kill with them, then they go back to being physco after the damage is done. Now due to me as a good guy not getting that liscense that day maybe, well I couldn't be there to save your behind, but the bad guy was there killing everyone in sight, yet meanwhile I am still standing in line at the liscensing dept. tapping my foot. 

Then here you all come to defend the physcotic condition (if they somehow live through it all), where you all start convincing everyone that they are just troubled a bit, and they can be reformed with the latest and greatest drugs while living back home and free.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 17, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > So teachers are trustworthy enough to be left with children, but not trustworthy enough to handle a firearm.  But we trust an eighteen-year-old soldier with only weeks of training with an "assault weapon," but a person has to have a four-year degree and certification to be trusted with kids.
> ...


You think of teachers as dog's (GO SIC"EM BOY)???????

You would be surprised how well and heroic someone can act in a situation, and if had a gun and the proper traning also, it would be just icing on the cake for them, but not for the killer.... I would rather them use a weapon to defend the children (if were the case), than their gun riddled bodies in which were absolutely non-effective in such a situation.


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



Training to face an armed attacker takes years. Having the fortitude to go head to head with an assassin is not evident in most teachers. They are teachers for a reason. If they had the aptitude to take on an armed assassin they would be in law enforcement, not education


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 17, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



You belittle woman to push an agenda?
Why do you hate women so much?
I thought that was one of the democrats  platform women are equal with men. I now can see it's just a bunch of bullshit


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


So allowing them the opportunity to carry a tool that may save their lives or the lives of their students is completely out of the question for all teachers everywhere.  Letting crazies come in and blow away entire classrooms unimpeded is definitely the better option.


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Where do psychos get their guns?  They are unable to pass the background checks required in gun shops. Thankfully, we have a fully functioning secondary market where checks are not required. Thankfully, we have the NRA protecting that secondary market


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> You belittle woman to push an agenda?
> Why do you hate women so much?
> I thought that was one of the democrats  platform women are equal with men. I now can see it's just a bunch of bullshit


I would never belittle a woman with a gun.  That's just a bad idea from the get-go.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 17, 2012)

LeftCoastVoter said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...


If liberals keep blocking the good and proper solutions, then we may have to just go with this idiotic leftist thought of solution, now can anyone say their favorite word > (compromise) ????


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 17, 2012)

Focusing on the real problem would do this thread justice, and that is to focus on what is going on with mental disorders or problem teens such as this who had just turned twenty, and how we need to now get pro-active on resolving these super important issues in this nation, especially where this has been ignored now by this nation, along with the underfunding of the mental health organization for way to long now. The health organizations in some states are to afraid to even talk about it much, because they know what has gone down in it all.

We knew liberals were sort of crazy back in the day, but it has all come to fruition now, yet they spin and spin and spin everything to the point of nothing getting resolved properly, and this until the next round of traggedies occurs.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > You belittle woman to push an agenda?
> ...



I never said you would. That comment was to right winger.


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


Dude, I'm just messing with you.  Take a deep breath!


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



I'm fine it's cool


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 17, 2012)

I see your latent homosexuality just flamed.  

You ain't got what it takes, Crackerjack.



Crackerjack said:


> Jake and Grump ought to get a room together.  They can protect each other from the scary guns.
> 
> Only one problem: which one will wear the strap on?


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 17, 2012)

NRA is being very quiet at the moment.

Why won't it oppose the legislation introduced next month?  Could it be you have three senators and former congressmen, all former NRA wacks, changing their mind on TV in the last 24 hours.


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> I see your latent homosexuality just flamed.
> 
> You ain't got what it takes, Crackerjack.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I don't own a strap-on dildo.  Sorry to disappoint you, Jake.

I'm sure there is some other strapping young man out there who has "what it takes" to make your elderly anus pucker though, and I wish you luck in finding him.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack and bigreb frenching each other.  Crackerjack's obsessed with homosexuality.  I am sure that bigreb would be interested in him.


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Crackerjack and bigreb frenching each other.


Jake, please keep your homoerotic fantasies to yourself.  Thanks.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack did I tell you about the new tavern in Lees Summit?

Doc's Tavern

All leather couches, chairs and stools. Old school table top gaming. And a staff of gorgeous women. Its in the old Jazz location.

Two ex military medics bought it and did a fine job remodeling


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack and bigreb frenching each other.
> ...



Jakes a pathetic little troll


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Crackerjack did I tell you about the new tavern in Lees Summit?
> 
> Doc's Tavern
> 
> ...


The old lady and I were talking about making a trip back up to KCMO one of these days in the near future.  I will give you a shout when we finally get back that direction.  We haven't been back since 2004, and I hear it's all different now.


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...


Notice he skipped over all the other posts and responded to that one right off the bat when he came back online?

Yeah, that doesn't scream "closeted homosexual living in denial" at all.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack did I tell you about the new tavern in Lees Summit?
> ...



Power and Light is awesome but I like to drink so I rarely get down there. No DUI's for me. A cab from there is about 70 bucks vs 10 for doc's.  

Sigh


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 17, 2012)

Yes, you and bigrebnc have homosexual obsessions and cater to them here and elsewhere.  You keep imposing them on others, but really you are beating yourselves.     Now the two of you should go back to pleasuring your male customers, unless Uncensored has cut throat you two yet again.



Crackerjack said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 17, 2012)

Back to the OP.  Teachers should not be armed.  Trained security personnel should be hired by all districts and employed in all schools.  A special local, state, and fed tax on all gun and gun supply sales will help fund the program.  70% of the population will support this big time.  It's a winner.  And the losers should help pay for safety.  The responsible gun owners will happily pay the tax.


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...


Yeah, I used to live downtown so it was Westport where I went most of the time.  P&L would have been extremely convenient for my drinking habits.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



He's my shadow.


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Yes, you and bigrebnc have homosexual obsessions and cater to them here and elsewhere.  You keep imposing them on others, but really you are beating yourselves.     Now the two of you should go back to pleasuring your male customers, unless Uncensored has cut throat you two yet again.


Jake returns to his well-known and extremely active fantasy life ...

*EDIT:*  By the way, what is this "cut throat" stuff he's fantasizing about?  I'm apparently not current on homosexual slang like Jake.


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


Maybe one of these days some of his imaginary friends will get together and do an intervention.

One can always hope.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 17, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



Yes he does need help


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 17, 2012)

You began and I have made you own it, son.  You fantasize about having things in your throat all the time.  Don't mess with your betters, boy.  



Crackerjack said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, you and bigrebnc have homosexual obsessions and cater to them here and elsewhere.  You keep imposing them on others, but really you are beating yourselves.     Now the two of you should go back to pleasuring your male customers, unless Uncensored has cut throat you two yet again.
> ...


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 17, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> You began and I have made you own it, son.  You fantasize about having things in your throat all the time.  Don't mess your betters, boy.


Tsk.  Jake's caretaker forgot to give him his meds again.  The voices are starting to get loud.

Quiet down, Jake.  I can hear your thoughts clear over here.


----------



## AceRothstein (Dec 17, 2012)

Maybe people shouldn't arm their crazy kids.  That really would have helped in this situation.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 17, 2012)

Yes, you are cracked in the head, CrackerJack.  Back to pleasuring your male whores.



Crackerjack said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > You began and I have made you own it, son.  You fantasize about having things in your throat all the time.  Don't mess your betters, boy.
> ...


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 17, 2012)

You three need help. 

Might I suggest a duel off?


----------



## 9thIDdoc (Dec 18, 2012)

AceRothstein said:


> Maybe people shouldn't arm their crazy kids.  That really would have helped in this situation.



You didn't notice he murdered his mother?


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 18, 2012)

9thIDdoc said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > 9thIDdoc said:
> ...



Which part?


----------



## 9thIDdoc (Dec 18, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



_You don't have gun control,..._


----------



## yidnar (Dec 18, 2012)

Sallow said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> > > Another school shooting. Time to arm the teachers?
> ...


how about an armed security guard at each school ?? the lareger the school the more security .


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 18, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Back to the OP.  Teachers should not be armed.  Trained security personnel should be hired by all districts and employed in all schools.  A special local, state, and fed tax on all gun and gun supply sales will help fund the program.  70% of the population will support this big time.  It's a winner.  And the losers should help pay for safety.  The responsible gun owners will happily pay the tax.



Again, Bullshitmeistro Starkey presents unsupported assertions instead of arguments or facts.

Here the Primo Asshole even speaks for all gun owners as if he knew jack shit about what gun owners would want.

Fuck you Starkey, you lying hypocrital peice of shit.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Dec 18, 2012)

yidnar said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > C_Clayton_Jones said:
> ...



All that was needed to avert this tragedy was a steel door at the entry instead of a glass one.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 18, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



There are ways around a steel door if the perp is a suicidal lunatic.

Most security barriers assume that the perp doesnt want be caught. Doesnt help much with protected criminals or crazies.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Dec 18, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > yidnar said:
> ...



It would have slowed him down enough for the cops to get there before he gained entrance. That's all any security measure has to do.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 18, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



Maybe, but then again, as he planned his attack, maybe he would have chosen a different way in and never gone to that metal door? Static obstacles are pointless if there is no one armed to watch over them and respond appropriately.


----------



## idb (Dec 18, 2012)

Are there other countries that have armed guards and teaching staff housed in fortified schools to protect their kids from their own citizens?


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 18, 2012)

idb said:


> Are there other countries that have armed guards and teaching staff housed in fortified schools to protect their kids from their own citizens?



Yes, Isreal and Thailand. And it has been extremely successful in stopping attacks on their schools.


----------



## idb (Dec 18, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Are there other countries that have armed guards and teaching staff housed in fortified schools to protect their kids from their own citizens?
> ...



Are they both for protection from their own citizens, or others?


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

Two things needed here to counter this in the future.. 

1. Plains clothes security in the schools or where ever it is needed to keep our children safe..

2. Mental Health Organizations and the treatment of the mentally challenged, needs to be reformed and refunded in order to work prevention instead of having to work reactionary. 

Single parent households need intervention quicker when a problem gets going or is recognized, as so not to allow these situations to develope into full blown traggedies like this. Reform the mental institutions or re-open some of them where they may have been closed down. Make these places not like dungeons or bad places, but more of a place where a person feels thay have been rescued instead of inprisoned. Getting single or re-married mothers to admit there is a problem is crucial for intervention, but we have to gain their trust that it is a good thing and not going to be a bad thing for their child or young adult. Get hollywood more involved in reforming itself, as so to stop all the garbage in and then garbage out syndrone. All the things these kids are learning and seeing, up against a parent trying to teach them the opposite, is making the parent look like a fool in their kids eyes later in life, instead of their heroe like the old days. They lose respect for their parents or anybody else, and this when they have their parents teach them one thing, and quickly they find that it is all just hypocrytical or worse they find them as hypocryts in the situation.  If this situation doesn't finally say that we have a huge problem with these things, then nothing ever will. The liberals don't want to adress these issues properly, so they go after an object that has to be picked up by someone that has faltered in their world, and is used to express their frustrations with a world gone mad to them, and that made them go mad also, but the dems or liberals say it's a gun that is the problem ? How about dealing with the real problem ? Oh that's right, when doing that it admits guilt doesn't it, so they can't be guilty for anything, and the blaming of the gun gets them out of that guilt doesn't it ?  The guilt is societal problems brought about by confused lib leadership, and the idiocy that goes along with all that in which we have seen in such leadership, court rulings and policy making over the years.

*IT IS NOT THE GUNS!*


----------



## AceRothstein (Dec 18, 2012)

9thIDdoc said:


> AceRothstein said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe people shouldn't arm their crazy kids.  That really would have helped in this situation.
> ...



By accounts now being reported, the mother included her son on trips to the shooting range and he also made trips there on his own with her guns. Do you think she was a responsible gun owner?


----------



## Skull Pilot (Dec 18, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



I'm not saying no to armed personnel. But really those cops were there in a matter of minutes and securing the entrance points of the building including windows would be IMO the first step in avoiding other incidents like this one.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 18, 2012)

Several sensible comments above completely defeat JimBowie's wild west suggestions.  

What a silly dude.

Yes, armed protection from trained security personnel will be the answer, not armed teachers.

A tax on firearms and the technology that supports the culture will pay for it.  A winner for sure.


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 18, 2012)

idb said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...


Does it matter?


----------



## Samson (Dec 18, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



No.

What MATTERS is that we hire me at $50,000/yr to carry a gun and wander around a campus full of attractive young teachers all day.

I also want Union collective bargaining rights and federal retirement benefits.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 18, 2012)

The JimBowie and the CrackerJack models will not work.  We will not be going Wild West.

Armed security personnel in all schools financed by taxation of guns and gun technology will fund superior protection.


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 18, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> The JimBowie and the CrackerJack models will not work.  We will not be going Wild West.
> 
> Armed security personnel in all schools financed by taxation of guns and gun technology will fund superior protection.


Trained teachers = Wild West?

Fantasy Boy strikes again.


----------



## Samson (Dec 18, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> The JimBowie and the CrackerJack models will not work.  We will not be going Wild West.
> 
> Armed security personnel in all schools financed by taxation of guns and gun technology will fund superior protection.



Or, at the very least, cause psychopaths to reconsider their target: Perhaps a zoo, or a church, or a soccer game or a public pool.....well inclusion on the list is really beyond my imagination.......


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 18, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> I'm not scared of guns.
> Nor am I scared of where I live
> I don't own a gun because I don't live in fear - of other people or my govt.. But don't worry, I'm a mere subject, while you are a citizen in the land of the 'free'....



Not that I believe anything you post, Forrest; but if you actually did live in Australia, you would be prohibited from owning a gun.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 18, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> Sometimes they go off all by themselves, you know.
> 
> You should probably call someone from the Brady campaign to hold your hand and take away the scary gun.



My Glock 17 is defective. I've had it for years, and never, not even once, has it gotten out of it's case and gone on a shooting spree. Since I know guns kill people, there must be something wrong with this one. It just sits there and waits until I go shoot it at paper targets....


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 18, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Not really.  Israel is an apartheid police state, and even with that, a crazed gunman with little trainign was still able to rack up a pretty good body count.



Oh?

You hate the JOOOOOZZZZ do you?

What a surprise, a leftist JOOOO hater.... Almost as unusual as a car with wheels.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 18, 2012)

I would rather have the giraffes at risk than the kindergarten class down the street.

Samson, you are correct our society in which we live is dangerous.



Samson said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > The JimBowie and the CrackerJack models will not work.  We will not be going Wild West.
> ...


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 18, 2012)

9thIDdoc said:


> AceRothstein said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe people shouldn't arm their crazy kids.  That really would have helped in this situation.
> ...



Yes, well, apparently it's HER fault for letting him kill her.


----------



## jillian (Dec 18, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> Gun sales booming. Crime rates falling.
> 
> That *couldn't* be connected could it?
> 
> ...



i don't think i'd rely on rev moon's winger site... i think they're still saying romney is going to win the election.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 18, 2012)

idb said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Does it really matter if the people trying to kill you are citizens or not?


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 18, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > AceRothstein said:
> ...



Could she have made it any easier?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 18, 2012)

AceRothstein said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > AceRothstein said:
> ...



Yes.  What she may not have been responsible about was mothering a crazy person.  And since she's dead and we have no details yet, I think that I shall avoid rushing to judgement on the poor woman.  Perhaps you should do the same.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 18, 2012)

CeCilie1200 would rush to judgement on God if she thought it would help her side.


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > 9thIDdoc said:
> ...



The longer this thread runs the more shrill it seems to get with personal insults and attacks crowding out the point of the thread.

Many thousands of people affflicted with Autism and Aspergers live in households where there are firearms, and nobody gets shot.  While there are numerous cases where such people are victims of violent crime, there is no evidence that such people are likely to plan or carry out a methodical massacre such as happened at Sandy Hook Elementary.
Autism experts say no evidence of link between Asperger&rsquo;s and violence like in Connecticut - The Washington Post

But the point of this thread should be focused on whether having armed protection in the school would have made a difference.  The seven adults who died almost all did so in attempting to stop the gunman and protect the children using their own unarmed bodies.  Think about that for a minute.

And then look into the eyes of those twenty children, try to imagine the pain, terror, and horror they experienced before their lives were ended.  What would it be worth to you to have saved even one of those little kids?   Or the brave adults who gave their lives in an attempt to do so?

Is having some means in the school to do so such a terrible concept?


----------



## idb (Dec 18, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



It does if you're using them as examples of the successful arming of schools.
In those cases they are protecting themselves from attack from non-citizens of the country - they're in a war zone.

Are there any countries that aren't at war with either insurgents or external forces, that require the arming and fortification of its schools to protect its children from its own citizens?


----------



## Oddball (Dec 18, 2012)

idb said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...


Whom the shooter(s) my or may not be is irrelevant.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 18, 2012)

idb said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



No, I'm sorry, but it makes no fucking difference at all WHO is trying to kill the children.  "It's okay to arm teachers to protect children from the bullets of non-citizens, but citizens' bullets must be met by unarmed, helpless bodies."

Shut.  The Fuck.  Up.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Could she have made it any easier?



Regulars here know I cook a lot. I have a magnetic board in my kitchen with a dozen knives on it, including a Zwilling JA Henckel with a 12 inch blade. My children could EASILY kill me in my sleep with it. Of course, they could hit me with the crystal lamp on by nightstand as well. You Bolsheviks don't grasp the concept that it is the person, not the tool, which is the danger.

(Actually you do, but you have a goal of a totalitarian state, so you play retard.)


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 18, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Could she have made it any easier?
> ...



Assault rifles and the mentally infirm do not mix


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 18, 2012)

Your goal is to prove yourself a loon.

You have succeeded.

You can't define socialism and how it applies here, so I am not so sure you know what a Bolshevik is, either.



Uncensored2008 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Could she have made it any easier?
> ...


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Assault rifles and the mentally infirm do not mix



No one is suggesting that you have access to any kind of rifle, RW.


----------



## idb (Dec 18, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



So, you're happy that the US is the only advanced Western country that has to isolate its kids away in armed fortifications from its own citizens for their protection?

I know this is a very hard concept for you because it won't fit on a bumper sticker, but isn't this the very reason you should be talking about the wider issues...including, but not limited to, firearms regulation.
Nutcases like you are the ones that are endangering your own kids by refusing to discuss these things because it might 'infringe your civil rights'.

Do you get it now you selfish bitch?


----------



## idb (Dec 18, 2012)

Oddball said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



No, I suppose not.
Just like you should feel safe and secure knowing that there are more killings in Syria than the US...right?


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 18, 2012)

9thIDdoc said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > 9thIDdoc said:
> ...



Um. You don't.


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 18, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not scared of guns.
> ...



Untrue. I just have to prove that I need a gun...not too hard to do if I really wanted one....


----------



## KissMy (Dec 18, 2012)

Believe It or Not Mass Killings Are Not on the Rise, They Are on the Decline

The assault with gun rate for the entire country dropped faster than cities with gun bans. Gun violence rose by comparison in cities with gun bans. There was an immediate changes in society around 1992 & it was not from government.

November 7, 1991, basketball legend Earvin "Magic" Johnson stuns the world by announcing he tested positive for HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. Within 2 months the number of people getting tested for aids was up 50%. Illegitimate birth rates dropped within 9 months. Heroin & other injected drug use that had been soaring since 1960 slowed their accent.

The country sobered up a bit & quit sharing IV drug needles. People quit having as many orgies, as much sex with strangers & not without protection. Maybe even settled down & married. This must have reduce the financial stress of illegitimate births & drug use, thus lowered the crime rate. Two parent structure households create the best well adjusted children. Single parent & divorced households & unwanted children create criminals.


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## Dr Grump (Dec 18, 2012)

idb said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



At the core of any neocon, right-wing loon is their own ego. It's all about "me, me, me" to them. You would never meet a more self-centred, self-righteous, egotistical, selfish group of people anywhere on the planet.

It is about survival of the fittest. IOW, they may live in the 21st century but their mind set is in the Stone Age...


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 18, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> Untrue. I just have to prove that I need a gun...not too hard to do if I really wanted one....



That MIGHT get you a single shot .22 - but level 3 (or C) is where the real guns start. Sheep Shaggers apparently can't be trusted with weapons.


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 18, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Untrue. I just have to prove that I need a gun...not too hard to do if I really wanted one....
> ...


It's his debilitating hoplophobia that is the problem here.  A real shame.


----------



## idb (Dec 18, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Untrue. I just have to prove that I need a gun...not too hard to do if I really wanted one....
> ...



Why would he want one?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 18, 2012)

idb said:


> Why would he want one?



No idea, and don't much care.


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 18, 2012)

The mass shootings, including those in schools, are not a phenomenon unique to the United States.  According to a recent CNN article, the U.K., Finland, and Australia, just to name a few, have endured the same kinds of unconscionable massacres.  And this after continual and repeated tightening of gun laws in those respective countries.

But I get weary of those who look to countries with different cultures, much tinier in size and population, and designed on much different principles than is the U.S.A. for the answers.   But if you insist on doing that, why not look to Israel and other places where faculties are armed, and therefore there are no massacres in their schools?

Why not look to our own people, study our own cultural complexities, and devise policy and systems that will be effective here?  And if providing school faculties with the means of protecting the kids against those who would harm them would save a single child from the tragedy that happened at Sandy Hook Elementary, why would any rational person oppose that?


----------



## idb (Dec 18, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> The mass shootings, including those in schools, are not a phenomenon unique to the United States.  According to a recent CNN article, the U.K., Finland, and Australia, just to name a few, have endured the same kinds of unconscionable massacres.  And this after continual and repeated tightening of gun laws in those respective countries.
> 
> But I get weary of those who look to countries with different cultures, much tinier in size and population, and designed on much different principles than is the U.S.A. for the answers.   But if you insist on doing that, why not look to Israel and other places where faculties are armed, and therefore there are no massacres in their schools?
> 
> Why not look to our own people, study our own cultural complexities, and devise policy and systems that will be effective here?  And if providing school faculties with the means of protecting the kids against those who would harm them would save a single child from the tragedy that happened at Sandy Hook Elementary, why would any rational person oppose that?



Yes, you have the immediate problem of protecting the kids from nutters but there has to be a greater discussion on why the US is som much more violent than other similar countries.

I don't believe you can compare the measures taken in countries like Israel when they are actually protecting against outside aggressors...they're in the middle of a war zone.
You are looking to protect against other US citizens...shouldn't that be concerning and cause questions to be asked?

If the basic culture isn't addressed where will it end?
Will people start actually living in fortified enclaves to protect themselves while wild-eyed lunatics roam the land outside?


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 18, 2012)

You start with protecting the children. 

Then you address the causes.

But regardless of what the CAUSE is, you protect the children, right now. You don't wait to try various things out. We know how to protect them, it's insane that people propose that we just continue to let them be slaughtered by anyone who wants to target them.


----------



## idb (Dec 18, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> You start with protecting the children.
> 
> Then you address the causes.
> 
> But regardless of what the CAUSE is, you protect the children, right now. You don't wait to try various things out. We know how to protect them, it's insane that people propose that we just continue to let them be slaughtered by anyone who wants to target them.



That's what *I* said.
What are ya...a limp-wristed liberal?


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 18, 2012)

idb said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > The mass shootings, including those in schools, are not a phenomenon unique to the United States.  According to a recent CNN article, the U.K., Finland, and Australia, just to name a few, have endured the same kinds of unconscionable massacres.  And this after continual and repeated tightening of gun laws in those respective countries.
> ...



The fact is, the USA is NOT more violent than most other countries in the world.  The U.K. has a higher per capita violent crime rate than we do despite having much more rigid gun laws.  Cuba, Russia, and Greenland, to name a few, have higher intentional homicide rates.  Take inner city drug related, and gang violence out of the mix, and we are among the world's most peaceful nations.  And, our most violent cities have some of the nation's strictest gun laws.  Despite our immense size in area and population, and having one of the world's most diverse populations, the the vast majority of us have zero fear of being hit by a stray bullet when we leave our homes every day and really don't think that much about somebody doing violence to us.

But does it matter if it is an outside aggressor or a U.S. citizen intent on committing mayhem in a public school?  When confronted by an aggressor in such a situation, are you really going to even think about what country issued his passport or whether he has one?   And does it matter that a tiny number of schools will ever encounter such a threat?

But we know it does happen.

If having means to protect themselves and the kids is given to the school administration and faculty to defend themselves and the children to which they are entrusted, how does any rational person object to that?

There is another active thread devoted to the 'real reason' behind the Sandy Hook Elementary massacre and it has provoked some interesting discussion including American cultural forces.

This thread I see as a discussion of how we best avert such a massacre in the future.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 18, 2012)

Administrators are hired to manage, teachers to teacher.  Neither are hired to carry guns.  Period.

Trained armed security personnel who do it for a living are the logical answer.

Yes, you far right wacks, it is going to cost, and it is going to come out of our pockets.

Get used to the idea, because it will happen in the next few months in all fifty states, either by executive or legislative action.


----------



## squeeze berry (Dec 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



then don't get an assault rifle


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 18, 2012)

idb said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > You start with protecting the children.
> ...


 
Liberals are pasty-faced and clammy palmed.

Get with the times! Limp-wristed is no longer an insult!


----------



## idb (Dec 18, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



What makes you think I intended it as an insult?


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 18, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Administrators are hired to manage, teachers to teacher.  Neither are hired to carry guns.  Period.
> 
> Trained armed security personnel who do it for a living are the logical answer.
> 
> ...



Lock down the schools....secure the entries

You can't have an armed security guard everywhere. You can't have an armed responsible adult everywhere your child goes. Nor would you want to


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 18, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Administrators are hired to manage, teachers to teacher.  Neither are hired to carry guns.  Period.
> 
> Trained armed security personnel who do it for a living are the logical answer.
> 
> ...



And demagogues like you are hired to post bullshit on message boards, to promote the agenda of your shameful party, Jakematters.


----------



## squeeze berry (Dec 18, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


----------



## idb (Dec 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Administrators are hired to manage, teachers to teacher.  Neither are hired to carry guns.  Period.
> ...



Maybe a handgun should be required materials for each child to bring to school...along with their graph paper, rulers, pencil sharpeners, lined exercise books etc.
They've got to learn personal responsibility sometime - after all, Mummy and Daddy won't always be there to protect them.


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## koshergrl (Dec 18, 2012)

idb said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...


 
uh, ok.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

Samson said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...


Is all that money and benefits you just mentioned, suppose to cause us not to consider anything at all because of the money issue ? You said it in a sarcastic manor like that or did I mis-read you ?


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 18, 2012)

idb said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Kevlar always looks good on kids. Durable and fashionable


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 18, 2012)

idb said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...


 
And neither will anyone else, if progressive loons get their way.

No protection for 5 year olds! Let them take their chances! There are too many squalling brats in the world anyway....


----------



## idb (Dec 18, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



That's what I'm saying!
Arm them from their first day at school.


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 18, 2012)

I know what you're saying.

You're saying there's no point in protecting them. Got it. Let them take their chances.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > AceRothstein said:
> ...


If she didn't get him help like he needed or left guns around for a physco to use on her, and then on others, then yes she is partly to blame most definetly..


----------



## idb (Dec 18, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> I know what you're saying.
> 
> You're saying there's no point in protecting them. Got it. Let them take their chances.



Is each kid going to have a personal bodyguard?
What happens when they're out of sight of the fire command centre or the pillbox in the middle of the playground?


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

idb said:


> Are there any countries that aren't at war with either insurgents or external forces, that require the arming and fortification of its schools to protect its children from its own citizens?



Nope, and we are no exception anymore... Terrorism is terrorism, no matter where it is and what form it comes in..


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## koshergrl (Dec 18, 2012)

idb said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > I know what you're saying.
> ...


 
So, if every child can't have an armed bodyguard 24/7, you think we should just pass on protecting them at schools, where everybody knows they congregate and where everybody knows there is no meaningful protection against ANYONE who wants to kill a LOT of people?

Really. 

That isn't even reasonable enough to contest. I'll just let it stand on it's own.


----------



## idb (Dec 18, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Are there any countries that aren't at war with either insurgents or external forces, that require the arming and fortification of its schools to protect its children from its own citizens?
> ...



It's amazing what citizens will come to accept as 'normal'.


----------



## idb (Dec 18, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



When have I ever said that?
But if the only answer to a gun problem is more guns, where is the line to be drawn?


----------



## ABikerSailor (Dec 18, 2012)

idb said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Apparently, some 11 year old in Utah has taken that stand...........................



> The 11-year-old is a student at West Kearns Elementary School, in Kearns, Utah, a suburb of Salt Lake City, and brought the .22-caliber handgun to school in his backpack, Granite School District spokesman Ben Horsley said told NBC News.
> 
> The boy, whose name has not been released because he is a juvenile, indicated that he wanted to defend himself if there was an incident similar to what happened in Newtown, Conn. Last Friday, 20 students, ages 6 and 7, and six school staff members at Sandy Hook Elementary School were killed when a gunman burst into the school and opened fire before fatally shooting himself. The gunman had killed his mother earlier that day.
> 
> &#8220;Obviously that&#8217;s not the correct approach,&#8221; Horlsey said of the 11-year-old's action. &#8220;We teach these kids on a regular basis that they have a responsibility to keep their school safe.&#8221;



Sixth-grader in Utah brings gun to school to avoid Connecticut-style attack, district spokesman says - U.S. News


----------



## Dr Grump (Dec 18, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Untrue. I just have to prove that I need a gun...not too hard to do if I really wanted one....
> ...



A gun is a gun. Why would I need anything more than a .22? Govt out to get me?


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> At the core of any neocon, right-wing loon is their own ego. It's all about "me, me, me" to them. You would never meet a more self-centred, self-righteous, egotistical, selfish group of people anywhere on the planet.



Hmmmmm, Freedom and Independence does seem to breed these sorts of things in people but why ? Is it because one has to seperate oneself from the bad in this nation, instead of inviting them in foolishly or trying to live with them foolishly, until they finally attempt to kill you either economically, maybe take your freedoms, your happiness, your livelyhood, your 20 oz soda's, your guns, your money through over taxing you, (i.e.never let a good crisis go to waste), or to put you as sheeple under totalatarian control finally for the corporations and/or those who need you as sheeple ? Now for the real bad amongst us, for whom the libs want us defenseless against, well they will be made easier to just murder us and/or our families anywhere, and at anytime before the cops get there, but not if they are met with a gun in the hands of the good people instantly..



Dr Grump said:


> It is about survival of the fittest. IOW, they may live in the 21st century but their mind set is in the Stone Age...



If the stone age is still popular in this respect, then bring back the stone age.


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 18, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Post local police when they get off the bus and enter the school. Once every student is in the school, lock it down. Not pretty looking glass doors that let the sun in, but real doors that keep anyone from breaking through. When the kids leave for the day, have police escort to the bus. 

No need to arm every teacher


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## ABikerSailor (Dec 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Cool.................heavily armed doors with armed guards on patrol.

So...............it's time to turn our schools into prisons?


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 18, 2012)

idb said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...


 
That isn't the question. Your question is a logical fallacy that has nothing to do with the issue.

The question is how do we protect our children from being slaughtered by mentally ill whack jobs, who have been targeting them for almost a century?

We protect them using guns. Obviously, the "gun free" zone thing is exactly zero effective.


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 18, 2012)

ABikerSailor said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...


 
I guess it's better to line them up against the wall, so any loon can shoot them down.

How many inmates have been killed by loons walking in off the street?


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 18, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



In my opinion, in cases of self defense, a .22 is a great weapon against an enraged squirrel or rabbit. But when confronted by a large mammal or crazed, drugged out assailant determined to commit mayhem, you better be a deadly accurate shot with a .22 and know precisely what you are aiming for.  A .38 is better; a .45 or 12 guage loaded with buckshot is best.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

idb said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > The mass shootings, including those in schools, are not a phenomenon unique to the United States.  According to a recent CNN article, the U.K., Finland, and Australia, just to name a few, have endured the same kinds of unconscionable massacres.  And this after continual and repeated tightening of gun laws in those respective countries.
> ...


It's simple, the wolves look to feast where they can easily kill their prey (defenseless), and so if you create a happy hunting ground for the wolves (bad guy's) to feast or feed in, then how is it that you can't take this comparison to realize that we have wolves living in and amongst us, and they look always for weakness, so is it that the libs are a bunch of weak cubs who are confused, and that need people like us to help them understand the dangers in society now? I want it so they can live to be older and for another day in America, but they will keep dying by the thousands if they don't get a clue somehow soon. Is Chicago and places like that in America a happy hunting ground for wolves whom prey on these places and the weak people who are in confusion about these things ? Think about it ! 

Who or what is the main culture or political lean in that state ? Think about it ! 

What is the percentages of murders in that city ? Think about it !


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...


I see you took the time to explain that, but I don't think he is listening really...


----------



## ABikerSailor (Dec 18, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Are you off your meds again Krusty Twit?  

We haven't turned our schools into prisons yet, and I'm pretty sure that some loon on the street would be hard pressed to sneak a gun into a prison so that he could kill an inmate.  Not saying it can't be done, but it's pretty damn hard.

If you can start making sense, maybe we can discuss this.  Until then?  Gonna just scroll over your posts unless they actually make sense (rare) or are as stupid as this one.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


If we would be honest and adress the real problems that make our nation ill, we would be able to avoid any of these measures, so hopefully soon some will come over to the good side of thinking before it's to late.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 18, 2012)

beagle9 is one of those human wolves he describes.

My handguns and long arms are enough for such.  I not need assault weapons or enhanced mags.

Too Stupid.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...


Two plain clothes security officers (maybe on a rotating basis with other areas in order to keep their identities concealed) is all that is needed in each shool from here on out, end of story..


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 18, 2012)

ABikerSailor said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...


 
Wow it's not even friday yet, are we going to get the joy of your psychotic break a few days early this week?


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 18, 2012)

If you feel it coming on, make sure you head to the tavern to make an ass of yourself there, again.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> beagle9 is one of those human wolves he describes.
> 
> My handguns and long arms are enough for such.  I not need assault weapons or enhanced mags.
> 
> Too Stupid.


How anyone here put's up with you is amazing actually..


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 18, 2012)

Most people have him on ignore.

Including the intelligent left wingers. Even they avoid him.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...


This picture is in-appropriate for this thread I think...


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 18, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Agree. Thirty minutes in the morning, thirty minutes in the afternoon. 

Lock down the school during the day. One point of access for visitors with an ID and a reason for being there


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

idb said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...


I garantee you if we wanted them to be this smart they could be, but we want them to enjoy their childhood and innocence, but if the libs keep distracting or confusing these issues, then we just may end up having to get them to this level soon...


----------



## idb (Dec 18, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...



Yes!
That's what I 've been saying.
*Why* do loons get guns and shoot up schools?


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 18, 2012)

That's not the question.

The question is HOW do you protect children from them?

You will probably never know why crazy people are crazy.

But HOW do you protect children from them, while you're trying to figure out what makes them tick?


----------



## idb (Dec 18, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



That might apply if he wanted a gun for self-defence.
I don't think he feels the need though.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


I will go along with that, as long as lock down doesn't apear as a lock down in a prison and such to the children, otherwise keeping them in an enviroment that nurtures, educates, and makes them happy all at the same time..


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> That's not the question.
> 
> The question is HOW do you protect children from them?
> 
> ...


Yep, now you see how he rolls don't you ? He has to keep that gun in there, but he is being honest eh?


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 18, 2012)

Makes them happy?


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 18, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Not really.  Israel is an apartheid police state, and even with that, a crazed gunman with little trainign was still able to rack up a pretty good body count.
> ...



Most Jews I know are pretty embarrased by the Zionists.  As most decent people should be.  

Hey, guess what. Obama still got 70% of the Jewish vote. Imagine that.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


Who are these zionist ? Pardon me if I'm a little bit lost on these labeling things..


----------



## FactFinder (Dec 18, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



The Connecticut school was locked down. You can come up with all the schemes you like. As long as God is tossed out of the school evil is invited.


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 18, 2012)

I don't get the whole lock down thing. How does it make children safer to have them huddle under their desks and wait for the shooter to come down the aisle?


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 18, 2012)

I guess it makes sense if the motive is to ensure as many children as possible get killed before anyone does anything....


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 18, 2012)

the extremists and radicals from the far right and far left are each trying to confuse the issue.

They will fail, and neither side will be happy with the laws that will pass this next year.

Tough, suckheads.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

FactFinder said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Agree, but we are dealing with what is in front of us right now, and we should work to get these things back right in this nation in which you speak about, and try our best not to let these adults and childrens lives be lost in vain..


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

Two plains clothes security officers (rotated out to conceal their identities), at each shool in America now, and we will have made great progress I do believe. We must get these schools off the attackers list of soft targets. Oh and the libs strike again, by allowing Husan to wear his beard after killing all those people on that military base. He would get NOTHING I tell ya, and I mean NOTHING, except for his trial and then his harsh sentencing. Is this a code to the extremist muslims that he made some progress for them in America, by killing all these Americans, and then making the justice system his little sucker like this ? Off topic, but still tied into the bigger problem this nation faces in all of these things now.


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 18, 2012)

FactFinder said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



God made Adam the assassin

You dont trust a glass door to protect you.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 18, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> the extremists and radicals from the far right and far left are each trying to confuse the issue.
> 
> They will fail, and neither side will be happy with the laws that will pass this next year.
> 
> Tough, suckheads.


And you're just confused.


----------



## idb (Dec 18, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > That's not the question.
> ...



Not at all...by all means investigate why a loon would go into a school with a machete, or a spear, or a sword as well.
What I'm saying is that the immediate problem has to be addressed but the wider issues need to be sorted as well so that the levels of violence are reduced and one day schools won't need to be fortresses.

I know you aren't interested in that discussion because it might mean that can't walk around with a big gun to impress the girls and your neigbours if you choose to.


----------



## idb (Dec 18, 2012)

FactFinder said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Quite.
Because we all know that there have never been lethal acts because of religion.


----------



## jillian (Dec 18, 2012)

FactFinder said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Whose G-d?


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > the extremists and radicals from the far right and far left are each trying to confuse the issue.
> ...


No he is a liberal shill is what he is, and he is shilling for the dems big time..


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> FactFinder said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...


Why so evil rightwinger ? Do you like keeping company with the likes of a killer by attacking your fellow patriots like this ? Whose side are you really on ?


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

jillian said:


> FactFinder said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...


How does it feel to be Godless, and therefore be more in the company of killers who are also Godless ?


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 18, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > FactFinder said:
> ...



Do you really believe that school was Godless? That those children lacked the grace of god because they went to a public school?

The religious right are at times worse than the gun loving right


----------



## idb (Dec 18, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > FactFinder said:
> ...



Yep, the more religion, the more peace.
The Middle East, for example, is awash in religion and as we all know nobody so much as shouts at each other over there.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 18, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> the extremists and radicals from the far right and far left are each trying to confuse the issue.
> 
> They will fail, and neither side will be happy with the laws that will pass this next year.
> 
> Tough, suckheads.



EAt shit you lying fuckhead.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



But then youare ALWAYS an embarrassment to mothers everywhere.

That must be why the local abortionists in your town refer to you as the 'one that got away.'


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...


No I don't believe that school was Godless, because God lays within the hearts of the little children always, and they should be allowed to express this freely, and to acknowledge his presense freely within them, and this by us allowing them to express this more freely instead of the opposite, but more and more we don't allow God to come through where he is needed most in America, and this denying of his spiritual presense to be lifted up in prayer as it should be, and so it is leading to some pretty bad stuff is what many people think now, and so I think this also. Listen I am on to you all for whom want to play word games and such on these threads with these issues, so save yourselves some time, and try and post some real good and productive conversation if you can, because no one is falling fo the all the spin anymore.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Dec 18, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > FactFinder said:
> ...



Theres no such thing as godless, one cant lack something that never existed to begin with. 

Or if god does exist, it exists as a contrivance of man, and the rejection of such a contrivance is clearly appropriate. 

Otherwise, as components of government, public schools are required by the Constitution to not endorse or promote any faith. And schools have become the better for it, theyve become places of truth and facts, not fantasies and myths.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

idb said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...


More word games, so you deny the peace we have had here in the past and/or over the years as Americans whom believe in God, and so it is that you use the middle east as a rule of thumb for what goes on here with our beliefs ? You probably condone X-Major Hasan wearing his beard after killing all of our American soldiers at that military base now don't you ?


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...


I'll ask you also, so how does it feel to be in what you may find as strange while in the company of killers who are also Godless ? Kind of lonely isn't it ?


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 18, 2012)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...


And yet here we have another one that mis-interprets the Constitution....So Sad..


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 18, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



I am not the one claiming god was tossed out of that school

I thought god could go anywhere he wanted. Those children sure could have used him


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 18, 2012)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



You dont understand the most basic concepts of God. You work off of the militant atheist Chic tract version of 'god', so it is no wonder that you are an ignornat fucktard on the subject.


----------



## idb (Dec 18, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



You're assuming causation...


> the peace we have had here in the past and/or over the years as Americans whom believe in God


...but, that being the case, I think the Middle East might be instructive.
It's the cradle of several religions after all - why isn't it more peaceful?

What has the beard thing got to do with God causing peace to reign supreme?
I know nothing about it and have no opinion.
What if he wanted to wear his trousers on his head?


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 18, 2012)

The JimBowies of America are completely out of touch with our country's narrative and cultural imperatives.  He is simply a parasite on the body of America.



JimBowie1958 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > the extremists and radicals from the far right and far left are each trying to confuse the issue.
> ...


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 18, 2012)

beagle9 and JimBowie do not speak for God or Christianity, for they know clearly neither.

The crazy evangelical cultists and the pre-Vactican II Catholics can eat dirt: they will not rule America.


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 19, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



People who think that establishing an apartheid state in Palestine is okay because God Promised them that land.  

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-evIyrrjTTY]This Land is Mine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 19, 2012)

For all the long winded arguments the answer is quite simple. 

1 bullet could have saved countless children.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 19, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> A gun is a gun. Why would I need anything more than a .22? Govt out to get me?



The United States was once a free nation.

Australia was a penal colony.

We have differing views of the relationship between government and the governed.

The USA teeters on the brink of civil war, that is an ugly fact that everyone tries to ignore, but it is a fact.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 19, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> beagle9 is one of those human wolves he describes.
> 
> My handguns and long arms are enough for such.  I not need assault weapons or enhanced mags.
> 
> Too Stupid.



Why would you have guns, Comrade? The state will give you any protection they believe you need.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 19, 2012)

idb said:


> Yes!
> That's what I 've been saying.
> *Why* do loons get guns and shoot up schools?



Because you haven't passed laws against having guns at school. Your party says that laws are the answer, more restrictive laws, less freedom. So if you only pass laws against guns at school, makes schools "gun free zones," then people like Adam Lanza will be stopped.

Criminals and crazy people always obey laws - so the law abiding should lose civil rights since it will stop criminals and crazy people.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 19, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Most Jews I know are pretty embarrased by the Zionists.  As most decent people should be.
> 
> Hey, guess what. Obama still got 70% of the Jewish vote. Imagine that.



You don't know any Jooozzz. The Swastika on your wall would turn them off.

And yes, a Jew voting for Obama is like Chicken voting for Col. Sanders.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 19, 2012)

Uncensored is a fascist, pure and simple.  He is willing to overthrow the state, institute fascism, then confiscate weapons.  He is what he is: a danger to American and our way of life.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 19, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> God made Adam the assassin
> 
> You dont trust a glass door to protect you.



I asked paid DNC operative JakeStarkey, but maybe you can answer: Why didn't the "gun free zone" laws stop Adam Lanza? You Bolsheviks swear that stripping Americans of civil rights through draconian laws is the answer - but here we find there was ALREADY a law in place - and it didn't stop the attack.

It's almost like criminals and the crazy don't care about laws... But then, that would mean your assault on constitutional rights would serve no purpose other than to punish the law abiding, and you Khmer Rouge types wouldn't do that, would you?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 19, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Uncensored is a fascist, pure and simple.  He is willing to overthrow the state, institute fascism, then confiscate weapons.  He is what he is: a danger to American and our way of life.



You don't know what the word means, Jakematters.

What does the party pay you to post here? Is it by the post, or by the hour?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 19, 2012)

idb said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Oh, am I?  I said that, did I?  Show me where I said that, or keep your putrid fucking words out of my mouth, ass munch.  If you're too chickenshit to debate MY ACTUAL WORDS, and need to set up a strawman of what you WISH I said to argue against, then just say so now.  I won't be surprised to find out that the real me scares you that much.

I know this is a hard concept for you because Obama didn't read it off a teleprompter, but I have no fucking intention of participating in a debate where you think you get to write your posts AND mine, and then I'm expected to defend the pustulent ignorance you spouted.

Nutcases like YOU are the reason that the IQ of the human race keeps dropping.

Do you get it NOW, you moronic little poltroon?  Grow a pair, asshole, or stop wasting my time.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 19, 2012)

Uncensored the fascist mutters and nutters along.

We throw him out of our GOP some time ago.


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 19, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


 
Yeah I already had this conversation with this ding dong. There's no point in wasting time except via the most shallow interaction with lying trolls.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 19, 2012)

idb said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > The mass shootings, including those in schools, are not a phenomenon unique to the United States.  According to a recent CNN article, the U.K., Finland, and Australia, just to name a few, have endured the same kinds of unconscionable massacres.  And this after continual and repeated tightening of gun laws in those respective countries.
> ...



Whatever discussion needs to be had in the United States, and whatever it involves, it won't involve YOU.  You have no dog in this fight, and you would not BELIEVE the amount of disinterest in what a bunch of panty-wearing nancy-boys in other countries think of our nation and our culture.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 19, 2012)

idb said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > You start with protecting the children.
> ...



No, you DIDN'T say that.  Because nothing you're proposing has anything to do with "protecting" anyone, and everything to do with diddling around, trying to create a perfect world where there's no danger or violence.


----------



## Annie (Dec 19, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> 
> I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.



I'm trending that way, with an aside. Most educations staff have no desire for guns or training, but a few do. If all districts said, 'open to option, but no comment,' regardless of their majority position, it might work.

It seems regardless of 'sanity or not' the perpetrators of this particular crime are suicidal, but want to go out in a 'blaze of glory.' If they think they may be shot down like a rabid dog, they might not target a school. 

Won't solve all the problem, but perhaps help protect schools.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 19, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



It is to leftists, because they actually hate homosexuals.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 19, 2012)

idb said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Yes, THAT'S what we're suggesting:  armed kindergartners.

What IS it with you leftist fucktards that you are just frigging INCAPABLE of discussing something without reverting to this "all or nothing", extremist absurdity?  The ONLY possible choices are that everyone on the planet must be disarmed and guns must be disinvented, OR we must arm kindergartners.

Is it just that you're really that damned stupid and simpleminded, or is it that you're that dishonest?  Which one is it?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 19, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > 9thIDdoc said:
> ...



I'm not planning to rush to judgement on a dead woman just because I or other people need to feel less helpless and like they're "doing something".

I can wait for the investigation to proceed before I start kicking her corpse.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 19, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Uncensored the fascist mutters and nutters along.
> 
> We throw him out of our GOP some time ago.



How can a DNC operative like you throw anyone out of the opposition party, Jakematters?

I advise you to eat less paint chips and cut down on the volume of MD 20/20 you drink.

Your remaining two brain cells will thank you.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 19, 2012)

idb said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > I know what you're saying.
> ...



"I'm a fucking retard!  Serious discussion?  I'll put a stop to that!  We need to discuss my juvenile extremism instead!"

It's bad enough that ruffle-wearing assholes from foreign countries feel the need to vote in issues they haven't been given a ballot for - ie. it's none of your fucking business and no one has asked or will ever ask you - but it says something when they feel the need to screech about their unsolicited and uncounted opinions to the point where they derail the conversations of people who actually MATTER to the topic.

Seriously, dimwit, go die.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 19, 2012)

idb said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



It's amazing what non-citizens think citizens give a shit about . . . like their uninvolved, unsolicited opinions.


----------



## ChrisfromDenver (Dec 19, 2012)

I read today that the lady was going to have her son committed, and thus he reacted - badly - 

Well, of course, I still blame her.  1st rule of a crazy kid, how about no Guns in the house.   my god


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 19, 2012)

idb said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Two lines, actually, neither of which have anything to do with you.  Common sense, and people whose business the decision actually is.


----------



## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 19, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> You start with protecting the children.
> 
> Then you address the causes.
> 
> But regardless of what the CAUSE is, you protect the children, right now. You don't wait to try various things out. We know how to protect them, it's insane that people propose that we just continue to let them be slaughtered by anyone who wants to target them.


if you really want to protect your children, they why not mandate all children wear body armor? why not mandate they are taught behind high electric fences with barbed wire and security check points? hell why dont you just homeschool them and then they arent in harms way at all? hell dont even ever let them leave the house, because you know they end up in a car accident.


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 19, 2012)

LeftCoastVoter said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > You start with protecting the children.
> ...



Why not just give the school faculty the means to defend themselves and the children?  Why is that so repugnant a concept to so many of you?


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 19, 2012)

Because teachers are hired to teach, foxfyre, not be armed security personnel for a profession.


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 19, 2012)

Well I am trained and experienced in several different occupations, and not one of them is a reason not to be able to defend myself or those I am responsible for.

Think again of that horrible day.  Teachers/administrators doing their damndest to protect the kids with nothing but their unprotected bodies.  Seven of them died including the teacher in the classroom where 20 beautiful little kids were slaughtered.   The police could not get there in time.  A single security guard would almost certainly have been immediately targeted--these massacres are planned out. 

If at least some teachers had access to a firearm and the training in how and when to use it, most if not all of those lives could have been saved.  Why is that so terrible a concept?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 19, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> I guess it makes sense if the motive is to ensure as many children as possible get killed before anyone does anything....



Pretty sure the goal is to have as many horrific child deaths as possible, in order to stampede people into allowing egregious laws and incursions into their civil liberties, so the leftists can try to engineer their perfect society.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 19, 2012)

Security Personnel exactly  are trained for this type of thing, Foxfyre, and teachers are trained to teach.  Do not confuse the required skill sets.



Foxfyre said:


> Well I am trained and experienced in several different occupations, and not one of them is a reason not to be able to defend myself or those I am responsible for.
> 
> Think again of that horrible day.  Teachers/administrators doing their damndest to protect the kids with nothing but their unprotected bodies.  Seven of them died including the teacher in the classroom where 20 beautiful little kids were slaughtered.   The police could not get there in time.  A single security guard would almost certainly have been immediately targeted--these massacres are planned out.
> 
> If at least some teachers had access to a firearm and the training in how and when to use it, most if not all of those lives could have been saved.  Why is that so terrible a concept?


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 19, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Well I am trained and experienced in several different occupations, and not one of them is a reason not to be able to defend myself or those I am responsible for.
> 
> Think again of that horrible day. Teachers/administrators doing their damndest to protect the kids with nothing but their unprotected bodies. Seven of them died including the teacher in the classroom where 20 beautiful little kids were slaughtered. The police could not get there in time. A single security guard would almost certainly have been immediately targeted--these massacres are planned out.
> 
> If at least some teachers had access to a firearm and the training in how and when to use it, most if not all of those lives could have been saved. Why is that so terrible a concept?


 
Statistics show us that mass killings are planned in gun-free zones. So an armed guard probably wouldn't have been targeted but avoided. The shooter would have chosen a different place, like a movie theatre with "no guns allowed" signs all over the lobby..like the batman killer did.


----------



## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 19, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> LeftCoastVoter said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...


why have schools at all? why not just let parents take personal responsibility for the care and safety of their children? if youre worried about your child's safety place in a facility you feel is secure, guns are not the only way to protect children.

what if i dont want guns near my children? should i forced by people like you to be mandated that they be that way?


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 19, 2012)

LeftCoastVoter said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > You start with protecting the children.
> ...


 

If I thought my child needed body armor, then I would sure as shit put it on them every single fucking day. Because that's what we do..we take the measures we have to take to protect our kids. That's what a sane society does.

If we need electric wire and check points, then electric wire and check points it is.

Fucking SHEEP RANCHERS buy DOGS and hire ARMED SHEPHERDS to guard their flocks from predators. I guess progressives think children are of less consequence that sheep.


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 19, 2012)

Of course, as Amy Nation pointed out...this is a cost that isn't to be borne by progressives. They'll hike our taxes up for birth control...

But any cost attendant with PROTECTING children, instead of preventing them or killing them, is suspect and unnecessary, and just too darned spendy.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 19, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Beating the snot out of them is therapeutic.


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 19, 2012)

LeftCoastVoter said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > LeftCoastVoter said:
> ...


Sounds like a good argument for school vouchers.


----------



## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 19, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> LeftCoastVoter said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...


i can agree with school vouchers.


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 19, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Well I am trained and experienced in several different occupations, and not one of them is a reason not to be able to defend myself or those I am responsible for.
> ...



I'm not dissing the concept of a security guard.  We currently have thousands of unemployed military veterans who would probably relish such an opportunity.  But there are also budget concerns.  School teachers are already spending their own money for essential classroom supplies.  I am pretty sure there are at least a few teachers in most, if not all schools, who are already hunters or sports gun advocates who would jump at the chance to volunteer for additional training in order to keep a secured firearm at school.  Wouldn't you, if you were a teacher?  I sure would.

Nobody is saying that it should be mandatory or expected of any teacher.  But those who are interested, capable, and willing to volunteer for some extra training and the opportunity to accept the responsibility, why not?


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 19, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...


I would definitely do it at my daughter's school on a volunteer basis during my down time.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 19, 2012)

LeftCoastVoter said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > You start with protecting the children.
> ...



If I really want to protect my children, the first thing I'm going to do is utterly disregard asinine, puerile leftist dipshits . . . like YOU.

It'll be easy.  All I'll need to do is ignore any post that starts with, "Why not just . . ." because I know that's going to be followed by something so utterly retarded, meaningless, extremist, and completely designed to accomplish nothing more than to shut down all rational adult conversation that it should automatically win the poster a Darwin Award for "Most likely to cut off his own dick in a shaving accident".

It amazes me how some people can actually lower their own IQs just through the process of allowing words to escape them, and how they can be PROUD of that fact.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Dec 19, 2012)

ChrisfromDenver said:


> I read today that the lady was going to have her son committed, and thus he reacted - badly -
> 
> Well, of course, I still blame her.  1st rule of a crazy kid, how about no Guns in the house.   my god



At least lock them up. I have an app on my phone that opens my gun safe - which is a short way of saying there is no reason NOT to have a gun safe. It won't slow you down.


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 19, 2012)

I haven't had guns in my house for some years, because the temperament of my current crop of children isn't such that they would ever be able to resist them. No matter where they're at.

But I had them in my house the entire time I was raising my big boys. 

And they were in the house the whole time I was growing up...and my older brother was flipping nuts. 

I don't blame anyone for being murdered, even by their own weapons. She has a right to her weapons, who knows, maybe they were locked up, and he got them out somehow. We don't know. Kids who kill their parents will go to pretty incredible lengths to do it.


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 19, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Absolutely.  So would I.  Volunteer armed fathers patroled our elementary school up on the mountain to run the drug dealers off and it worked.

But arming the willing teachers and making it widely known that some teachers are armed removes schools from the 'gun free' category.  And as KG mentioned, that makes it much less attractive to madmen planning massacres.  And without going to the expense of security guards.


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 19, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...


You mean letting regular people with guns around a school didn't lead to a bloodbath?  Inconceivable!


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 19, 2012)

How does Columbia rate on the "death by firearm" chart?

I think they're pretty high...

In Colombia, civilians are not allowed to possess pistols and revolvers of calibre superior to 9.652mm, automatic arms, semi-automatic rifles and carbines over 22 caliber LR, arms with military-style devices (infrared and laser sights, grenade launchers and silencers) and ammunition for these arms29
*Compare
Regulation of Automatic Assault Weapons*

In Colombia, private possession of fully automatic weapons is prohibited with only narrow exemptions29 30 31

*Compare
Regulation of Semiautomatic Assault Weapons*

In Colombia, private possession of semi-automatic assault weapons is prohibited with only narrow exemptions29 30 31

*Compare
Regulation of Handguns*

In Colombia, private possession of handguns (pistols and revolvers) is permitted under licence32 31



*Compare
Gun Owner Licensing*

In Colombia, only licensed gun owners19 28 33 may lawfully acquire, possess or transfer a firearm or ammunition
*Compare
Genuine Reason Required for Firearm Licence*

Applicants for a gun owner&#8217;s licence in Colombia are required to prove genuine reason to possess a firearm, for example, personal protection, security, hunting, target shooting, collection34 33

*Compare
Minimum Age for Firearm Possession*

The minimum age for gun ownership in Colombia is 18 years33

*Compare
Gun Owner Background Checks*

An applicant for a firearm licence in Colombia must pass background checks which consider criminal and mental33 records

*Compare
Domestic Violence and Firearms*

Where a past history, or apprehended likelihood of family violence exists, the law in Colombia stipulates35 that a gun licence should be denied or revoked

*Compare
Gun Owner Licensing Period*

In Colombia gun owners must re-apply and re-qualify for their firearm licence every 10 years (for firearms not to be carried outside of the house or property), 3 years (for self-defence) and 1 year (for restricted weapons)36



*
Firearm Registration*


*Compare
Civilian Gun Registration*

In Colombia, the law requires37 38 31 that a record of the acquisition, possession and transfer of each privately held firearm be retained in an official register

*Compare
Gun Manufacturer Record Keeping*

In Colombia, licensed gun makers are required37 to keep a record of each firearm produced, for inspection by a regulating authority

*Compare
State-Owned Firearm Records*

In Colombia, State agencies are required37 38 to maintain records of the storage and movement of all firearms and ammunition under their control



*
Gun Sales and Transfers*


*Compare
Regulation of Dealer Gun Sales*

In Colombia, dealing in firearms by way of business without a valid gun dealer&#8217;s licence is unlawful12



*
Storage and Transport of Guns and Ammunition*


*Compare
Firearm and Ammunition Storage Regulations - Private*

Firearm regulations in Colombia include39 36 written specifications for the lawful safe storage of private firearms and ammunition by licensed gun owners

*Compare
Firearm and Ammunition Storage Regulations - Government*

Government regulations in Colombia include39 written specifications for the lawful safe storage of firearms and ammunition by state entities

*Compare
Firearm and Ammunition Transport Regulations*

Regulations in Colombia include20 written specifications for the lawful safe storage of firearms and ammunition while in transit



*
Marking and Tracing Guns and Ammunition*


*Compare
Firearm Marking*

In Colombia, a unique identifying mark on each firearm is required by law40 41

*Compare
Firearm Tracing*

In Colombia, state authorities carry out38 recognised arms tracing and tracking procedures

*Compare
Ballistic Marking of Firearms and Ammunition*

In Colombia, state authorities employ40 ballistic fingerprinting technology to trace guns and ammunition



*
Carrying Guns*


*Compare
Carrying Guns Openly in Public*

In Colombia, carrying a firearm in plain view in a public place is allowed, subject to a valid permit19 28 36

*Compare
Carrying Hidden Handguns in Public*

In Colombia, carrying a concealed firearm in a public place is allowed, subject to a valid permit19 28 36



*Compare
Gun Free Zones*

In Colombia, private guns are prohibited in political meetings, elections or public corporations' meetings19


*Compare
Penalty for Illicit Firearm Possession*

In Colombia, the maximum penalty for illicit possession of firearms is 15 years of prison term36


*Compare
Collection, Amnesty and Destruction Programmes*

Authorities in Colombia are known to have42 43 44 45 implemented voluntary firearm surrender schemes, and/or weapon seizure programmes in order to reduce the number of illicit firearms in circulation
*Compare
Surrendered in Gun Amnesty*

In Colombia, the number of firearms and/or rounds of ammunition voluntarily surrendered for destruction in recent arms amnesty and collection programmes is reported to be 18,05146 (2003-06) and 25045 (2010 in Bogota only)

*Compare
Small Arms Destroyed*

In Colombia, the total number of firearms destroyed following recent amnesty, collection and seizure programmes is reported to be 5,02642 (2002), 28,10343 (2006-2007), 27,864 (2008), 26,01444 (2009) and 9,48745 (2010 in Bogota only)




*MeasuresInternational Controls*

*
Regional Agreements*


*
Andean Community*

As a member of the Andean Community, Colombia adopted Decision 552: The Andean Plan to Prevent, Fight and Eradicate Illicit Trafficking in Small Arms and Light Weapons in All Its Aspects in June, 200347

*
Organization of American States*

On 14 November 1997, as a member of the Organisation of American States (OAS), Colombia adopted the Inter-American Convention against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Explosives, Ammunition and Other Related Materials (CIFTA), a legally binding multilateral treaty of which the OAS is depository. The CIFTA Convention has since been signed and ratified48 49 by Colombia



*
United Nations Arms Trade Treaty*

In 2009, Colombia voted to begin50 negotiations towards a legally binding Arms Trade Treaty. In this vote, 151 UN Member States supported talks on an ATT, with 1 voting against, 20 abstentions, and 20 non-votes


*Compare
United Nations Firearms Protocol*

The United Nations Protocol against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Their Parts and Components and Ammunition has not been signed51 by Colombia


*
United Nations Small Arms Programme of Action UNPoA*


*
UNPoA Commitment*

On 21 July 2001, Colombia committed to a consensus decision of the United Nations to adopt, support and implement the UN Programme of Action to Prevent, Combat and Eradicate the Illicit Trade in Small Arms and Light Weapons in All Its Aspects52

*Compare
UNPoA National Reporting*

Under the terms of its 2001 commitment to the United Nations small arms Programme of Action, Colombia has submitted one or more national reports53 54 on its implementation of the UNPoA

*Compare
UNPoA National Point of Contact*

In Colombia, a National Point of Contact to deal with issues relating to the UNPoA has been designated55 54

*Compare
UNPoA National Coordinating Body*

In Colombia, a National Coordinating Body to deal with issues relating to the UNPoA has been designated55

*Compare
UNPoA Civil Society Involvement and Support*

In National Reports of Colombia submitted to the UN, a history of substantive cooperation with civil society in support of UNPoA activities is apparent56 55

*Compare
UNPoA International Assistance &#8211; Donor*

Funds for UNPoA implementation have not been donated54 by Colombia to other UN Member States

*Compare
UNPoA International Assistance &#8211; Recipient*

Funds for UNPoA implementation have been provided54 to Colombia by other UN Member States



*
United Nations Small Arms Register*

According to the United Nations Register of Conventional Arms, Colombia has declared3 its small arms exports in one or more annual National Reports on Arms Exports.


*
United Nations Membership*

In the UN List of Member States, Colombia has been a Member State of the United Nations since 194557


*
Wassenaar Arrangement*

The Wassenaar Arrangement on Export Controls and Conventional Arms and Dual-Use Goods and Technologies does not list58 Colombia as a Participating State






Last Updated on 24 May 2012 
Guns in Colombia: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 19, 2012)

How does Columbia rate on the "death by firearm" chart?

I think they're pretty high...

In Colombia, civilians are not allowed to possess pistols and revolvers of calibre superior to 9.652mm, automatic arms, semi-automatic rifles and carbines over 22 caliber LR, arms with military-style devices (infrared and laser sights, grenade launchers and silencers) and ammunition for these arms29
*Compare
Regulation of Automatic Assault Weapons*

In Colombia, private possession of fully automatic weapons is prohibited with only narrow exemptions29 30 31

*Compare
Regulation of Semiautomatic Assault Weapons*

In Colombia, private possession of semi-automatic assault weapons is prohibited with only narrow exemptions29 30 31

*Compare
Regulation of Handguns*

In Colombia, private possession of handguns (pistols and revolvers) is permitted under licence32 31



*Compare
Gun Owner Licensing*

In Colombia, only licensed gun owners19 28 33 may lawfully acquire, possess or transfer a firearm or ammunition
*Compare
Genuine Reason Required for Firearm Licence*

Applicants for a gun owners licence in Colombia are required to prove genuine reason to possess a firearm, for example, personal protection, security, hunting, target shooting, collection34 33

*Compare
Minimum Age for Firearm Possession*

The minimum age for gun ownership in Colombia is 18 years33

*Compare
Gun Owner Background Checks*

An applicant for a firearm licence in Colombia must pass background checks which consider criminal and mental33 records

*Compare
Domestic Violence and Firearms*

Where a past history, or apprehended likelihood of family violence exists, the law in Colombia stipulates35 that a gun licence should be denied or revoked

*Compare
Gun Owner Licensing Period*

In Colombia gun owners must re-apply and re-qualify for their firearm licence every 10 years (for firearms not to be carried outside of the house or property), 3 years (for self-defence) and 1 year (for restricted weapons)36



*
Firearm Registration*


*Compare
Civilian Gun Registration*

In Colombia, the law requires37 38 31 that a record of the acquisition, possession and transfer of each privately held firearm be retained in an official register

*Compare
Gun Manufacturer Record Keeping*

In Colombia, licensed gun makers are required37 to keep a record of each firearm produced, for inspection by a regulating authority

*Compare
State-Owned Firearm Records*

In Colombia, State agencies are required37 38 to maintain records of the storage and movement of all firearms and ammunition under their control



*
Gun Sales and Transfers*


*Compare
Regulation of Dealer Gun Sales*

In Colombia, dealing in firearms by way of business without a valid gun dealers licence is unlawful12



*
Storage and Transport of Guns and Ammunition*


*Compare
Firearm and Ammunition Storage Regulations - Private*

Firearm regulations in Colombia include39 36 written specifications for the lawful safe storage of private firearms and ammunition by licensed gun owners

*Compare
Firearm and Ammunition Storage Regulations - Government*

Government regulations in Colombia include39 written specifications for the lawful safe storage of firearms and ammunition by state entities

*Compare
Firearm and Ammunition Transport Regulations*

Regulations in Colombia include20 written specifications for the lawful safe storage of firearms and ammunition while in transit



*
Marking and Tracing Guns and Ammunition*


*Compare
Firearm Marking*

In Colombia, a unique identifying mark on each firearm is required by law40 41

*Compare
Firearm Tracing*

In Colombia, state authorities carry out38 recognised arms tracing and tracking procedures

*Compare
Ballistic Marking of Firearms and Ammunition*

In Colombia, state authorities employ40 ballistic fingerprinting technology to trace guns and ammunition



*
Carrying Guns*


*Compare
Carrying Guns Openly in Public*

In Colombia, carrying a firearm in plain view in a public place is allowed, subject to a valid permit19 28 36

*Compare
Carrying Hidden Handguns in Public*

In Colombia, carrying a concealed firearm in a public place is allowed, subject to a valid permit19 28 36



*Compare
Gun Free Zones*

In Colombia, private guns are prohibited in political meetings, elections or public corporations' meetings19


*Compare
Penalty for Illicit Firearm Possession*

In Colombia, the maximum penalty for illicit possession of firearms is 15 years of prison term36


*Compare
Collection, Amnesty and Destruction Programmes*

Authorities in Colombia are known to have42 43 44 45 implemented voluntary firearm surrender schemes, and/or weapon seizure programmes in order to reduce the number of illicit firearms in circulation
*Compare
Surrendered in Gun Amnesty*

In Colombia, the number of firearms and/or rounds of ammunition voluntarily surrendered for destruction in recent arms amnesty and collection programmes is reported to be 18,05146 (2003-06) and 25045 (2010 in Bogota only)

*Compare
Small Arms Destroyed*

In Colombia, the total number of firearms destroyed following recent amnesty, collection and seizure programmes is reported to be 5,02642 (2002), 28,10343 (2006-2007), 27,864 (2008), 26,01444 (2009) and 9,48745 (2010 in Bogota only)




*MeasuresInternational Controls*

*
Regional Agreements*


*
Andean Community*

As a member of the Andean Community, Colombia adopted Decision 552: The Andean Plan to Prevent, Fight and Eradicate Illicit Trafficking in Small Arms and Light Weapons in All Its Aspects in June, 200347

*
Organization of American States*

On 14 November 1997, as a member of the Organisation of American States (OAS), Colombia adopted the Inter-American Convention against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Explosives, Ammunition and Other Related Materials (CIFTA), a legally binding multilateral treaty of which the OAS is depository. The CIFTA Convention has since been signed and ratified48 49 by Colombia



*
United Nations Arms Trade Treaty*

In 2009, Colombia voted to begin50 negotiations towards a legally binding Arms Trade Treaty. In this vote, 151 UN Member States supported talks on an ATT, with 1 voting against, 20 abstentions, and 20 non-votes


*Compare
United Nations Firearms Protocol*

The United Nations Protocol against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Their Parts and Components and Ammunition has not been signed51 by Colombia


*
United Nations Small Arms Programme of Action UNPoA*


*
UNPoA Commitment*

On 21 July 2001, Colombia committed to a consensus decision of the United Nations to adopt, support and implement the UN Programme of Action to Prevent, Combat and Eradicate the Illicit Trade in Small Arms and Light Weapons in All Its Aspects52

*Compare
UNPoA National Reporting*

Under the terms of its 2001 commitment to the United Nations small arms Programme of Action, Colombia has submitted one or more national reports53 54 on its implementation of the UNPoA

*Compare
UNPoA National Point of Contact*

In Colombia, a National Point of Contact to deal with issues relating to the UNPoA has been designated55 54

*Compare
UNPoA National Coordinating Body*

In Colombia, a National Coordinating Body to deal with issues relating to the UNPoA has been designated55

*Compare
UNPoA Civil Society Involvement and Support*

In National Reports of Colombia submitted to the UN, a history of substantive cooperation with civil society in support of UNPoA activities is apparent56 55

*Compare
UNPoA International Assistance  Donor*

Funds for UNPoA implementation have not been donated54 by Colombia to other UN Member States

*Compare
UNPoA International Assistance  Recipient*

Funds for UNPoA implementation have been provided54 to Colombia by other UN Member States



*
United Nations Small Arms Register*

According to the United Nations Register of Conventional Arms, Colombia has declared3 its small arms exports in one or more annual National Reports on Arms Exports.


*
United Nations Membership*

In the UN List of Member States, Colombia has been a Member State of the United Nations since 194557


*
Wassenaar Arrangement*

The Wassenaar Arrangement on Export Controls and Conventional Arms and Dual-Use Goods and Technologies does not list58 Colombia as a Participating State






Last Updated on 24 May 2012 
Guns in Colombia: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 19, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > A gun is a gun. Why would I need anything more than a .22? Govt out to get me?
> ...


 
Australia's crime rate increased by 42 percent when they imposed more restrictive gun laws.

Don't expect the descendants of felons to be truthful about anything, that's the moral here.


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 19, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> ChrisfromDenver said:
> 
> 
> > I read today that the lady was going to have her son committed, and thus he reacted - badly -
> ...



But, we don't KNOW whether the guns were locked up at that house.  We have people close to us who had no guns in the house of any kind but still kept a chair jammed under the door to their bedroom, in addition to the lock, because they were afraid of their son, but didn't have the heart to throw him out.  Not only would you have to lock up the guns with somebody like that in the house, but all knives or other sharp implements, ball bats, heavy objects that could be used as bludgeons, etc. etc. etc.

I am not going to excuse this person because the mother had guns.  And that part of the story is also irrelevent to whether school faculties should be allowed the means to defend themselves and the precious children entrusted to them.


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 19, 2012)

Mexico has some of the strictest gun control laws in this hemisphere.  Hardly any crime there!


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 19, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



Nope.  And these weren't just regular people, but regular people with no special training to do this duty.  So far as I know nobody was shot.  I don't think a shot was ever fired.  But the predatory drug merchants who had been regular features in that neighborhood vanished never to return.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 19, 2012)

I can support the principle of sv but am also aware that many private schools would jack the tuition by the amount of the vouchers.  They are in business, many of them, for profit, and if the government wants to subsidize them with educational welfare vouchers, well, sure.



LeftCoastVoter said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > LeftCoastVoter said:
> ...


----------



## idb (Dec 19, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



The intent of your words is clear, you're OK with comparing the safety of US kids with those in war zones.
Since you don't write with any discernible intelligence beyond being co-ordinated enough to push down on the keys, I'm happy to translate for you.


----------



## idb (Dec 19, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Ha!
Welcome to the worldwide web.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 19, 2012)

Remember that syntax and diction trouble Cecilie1200.


----------



## idb (Dec 19, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



At last, an almost coherent sentence.
You obviously have assistance.

Part of an earlier post by me


> What I'm saying is that the immediate problem has to be addressed but the wider issues need to be sorted as well so that the levels of violence are reduced and one day schools won't need to be fortresses.


----------



## idb (Dec 19, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Hmmm..."does not understand irony".
Noted.


----------



## idb (Dec 19, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



Yep, we're a caring bunch all right.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 19, 2012)

idb is flogging Cecilie1200!  Bet she likes it.


----------



## idb (Dec 19, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Oh yes, I'm lying in a pool of blood after the beating you gave me.
Oww...owww...and owww again...!


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 19, 2012)

And . . . yet again . . . OWW


----------



## idb (Dec 19, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...


If common sense is that common, how have you managed to dodge it so successfully?


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 19, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> And . . . yet again . . . OWW


 
I hear a voice calling from the attic, jake...


----------



## ABikerSailor (Dec 19, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> For all the long winded arguments the answer is quite simple.
> 
> 1 bullet could have saved countless children.



You DO realize that in all these shootings, NOT A SINGLE CONCEALED CARRY OWNER has ever saved anyone, right?


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 19, 2012)

ChrisfromDenver said:


> I read today that the lady was going to have her son committed, and thus he reacted - badly -
> 
> Well, of course, I still blame her.  1st rule of a crazy kid, how about no Guns in the house.   my god


Would that be all houses or just her house, and this because she had such a situation going on in her house ? If we would have had security at the school already, and this as a long over due result of what happened at Columbine, then we would never have had the situation at this school in which we ended up with either, or even if we would have had the Principles staff trained and armed, we wouldn't have had this situation at the school because it wouldn't have been a soft target and the kid would have known this.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 19, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Well I am trained and experienced in several different occupations, and not one of them is a reason not to be able to defend myself or those I am responsible for.
> 
> Think again of that horrible day.  Teachers/administrators doing their damndest to protect the kids with nothing but their unprotected bodies.  Seven of them died including the teacher in the classroom where 20 beautiful little kids were slaughtered.   The police could not get there in time.  A single security guard would almost certainly have been immediately targeted--these massacres are planned out.
> 
> If at least some teachers had access to a firearm and the training in how and when to use it, most if not all of those lives could have been saved.  Why is that so terrible a concept?


To add, I will also say that if there would have been two plain clothes security officers asigned to the school, he may have been taken out as soon as he shot the glass out, and if he would have gotten one of them maybe, then the other security officer would have been right on him to take him out finally. Of course it would have been a shoot out at the school, but this instead of a mass killing of children and their teachers who were trying to shield them with their defenseless bodies.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 19, 2012)

ABikerSailor said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > For all the long winded arguments the answer is quite simple.
> ...


And so you are saying what then ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 19, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> The JimBowies of America are completely out of touch with our country's narrative and cultural imperatives.  He is simply a parasite on the body of America.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And you are a delusional lying bitch who thinks he speaks for all godamn humanity.

Fuck off Starkey you fucking lying peice of shit.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 19, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



So then you think all Democrats and libtards are liars then? That is depressing.


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 19, 2012)

ABikerSailor said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > For all the long winded arguments the answer is quite simple.
> ...



Are you sure about that?  My own research has turned up numerous cases of people with concealed carry licenses preventing what would almost certainly have been a homicide including some mass shooting events.  Here is just one source:



> If one of the hundreds of people at the theater had a concealed handgun, possibly the attack would have ended like the shooting at the mega New Life Church in Colorado Springs in December 2007.
> 
> In that assault, the churchs minister had given Jeanne Assam permission to carry her concealed handgun. The gunman killed two people in the parking lot  but when he entered the church, Assam fired 10 shots, severely wounding him. At that point, the gunman committed suicide.
> 
> ...


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 19, 2012)

Our non-biased media never covers those stories.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 19, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...


Two things I don't like about this post.

1. Why does it always go back to budgets, suggesting that we don't have the money to do the right things anymore, and especially when we have some of the most rediculous things being paid for by our governemnt, and then also sending millions and/or billions to other governments who hate us, yet we don't have enough to fund a project in order to save the poor lives of our own American children, who died so sadly in the way that they died in this nation last Friday ? Kidding me right ?

2. Then you speak of these teachers volunteering as in *no pay *for the extra training and certification that they would need + a raise in pay if they became a key man or woman in the situation as is needed. So you are kidding me again Right ? Whats wrong with paying people respectfully for what they know, advance to and/or risk everyday in their jobs accordingly ?


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 19, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Our non-biased media never covers those stories.



That's part of the problem I think.  The media goes absolutely bonkers to give non stop coverage for days in case some nut looks for his moment of fame and glory by shooting up a theater or shopping mall or a school of elementary kids.  And then the media tries to find some way to blame anything and everything for the massacre other than the shooter himself.

But the ordinary citizen who stops the intended mass murderer doesn't seem to be so newsworthy does he or she.  You have to really dig to find those stories.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 19, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...


How about asking the parents and staff if they would want to pitch in in order to have a few security gaurds at their kids schools now, and it may surprise you about what they would say they would do in order to help out. Maybe a penny tax could be ask for in each city town or state just for this reason? The tax would be much more appropriate at this time, and not put any burdon on the parents who don't need such a burdon placed upon them at this time.


----------



## idb (Dec 19, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Well I am trained and experienced in several different occupations, and not one of them is a reason not to be able to defend myself or those I am responsible for.
> ...



That would make a *great* movie.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 19, 2012)

You silly loon believe you speak for the Founders and the "real" intent of America, yet you can't even live with basic terminology and definitions.

You are corrupt, your out of touch, and where did i say I speak "for all godamn humanity."  Such a silly exaggeration. 

That is why you are a laughing stock on the Board. 





JimBowie1958 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > The JimBowies of America are completely out of touch with our country's narrative and cultural imperatives.  He is simply a parasite on the body of America.
> ...


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## Foxfyre (Dec 19, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Because doing what is right, responsible, and intelligent doesn't seem to fit into the national psyche anymore.  So I'm going with the situation that exists.  Already we give millions of tax payers dollars for assanine studies all over the world while school teachers lack the most basic supplies they need for their classrooms and many pay for these out of their own pockets.

The Senate just voted a $60.4 billion relief bill for Hurricane Sandy relief and it is expected to pass the house and be signed by President Obama.  But included in that bill, among various other pork packages, are museum roofs, a subsidy for the Kennedy Space Center, a grant for the Plum Island Animal Disease Center, and $150 million for fishery disasters as far away as Alaska.

So yes, our precious children should be worth any amount of money to keep them safe.  In a perfect world we would take the money from non essential programs and hire the security the schools need.  But this isn't a perfect world and Congress doesn't spend money on what we need but on what gets them votes.  Putting guns in the schools is not exactly a vote getter.

The money to pay the security guards would almost certainly come out of the textbook fund or cost us a teacher or two creating further crowding in the classrooms, etc.  So, the more reasonable immediate action is simply to allow existing teachers, who wish to do so, the means to protect themselves and the kids.  Sure, pay for any required training necessary to make that as effective as possible, but let the people already there volunteer for the extra duty if they wish to do so.

This would be no different than those dads organizing security against the drug dealers or our local neighborhood watch people, none of whom are paid or compensated in any way for their civic duty.


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## beagle9 (Dec 19, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Our non-biased media never covers those stories.
> ...


We now live in a nation where hollywood sadly is glorifying evil over and above good, and this is easily found in their messages, games, and in many of their movies in large percentages of anymore.  

It seems anymore when turning on a TV or flipping the channels we are just inondated or bombarded with bad stuff (becoming harder and harder to find good in the world), and this is being done in so many ways now that we just can't keep up anymore.

Now all the little minions are falling in lock step with hollywood on these sort of things, especially as they move forward yet having no justification of (or) worse trying to always blame the wrong people or things on this stuff in which is being found in this nation anymore... 

This is why they know about those who are around them I think, and ironically even they fear these bad people created as well also (sort of like the Frankenstien syndrone or storyline, except this is for real), but they don't want to change what they have created now, so they figure they can change what we have created instead or worse they would have us take down our defenses as each incident passes us by or hits us like a frieght train straight on? 

This nation is under seige by bad people doing bad or contemplating bad things more and more it seems, and the minions are trying to cover for them, and then they want to change America for the worse, and this is what many feel about it all now. 1st they have to get our guns from us, and then on and on it will go from there, and this in order to finish us off finally? There is a connection to the bigger picture, and this situation has proven this or rather has let the cat out of the bag finally.

Hopefully they are just confused, and they really think they are actually doing Ok in life, and that they are not fueling these sorts of things indirectly or directly, and if so, then it is up to us to change them by helping them, and not letting them change us any further instead. We could start by allowing God back into America (found again in government), as so to show we are a good people by this gesture of humblness and goodness again, and not let anyone steal our happiness in which has become the case in America these days, and for to long now.


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## Politico (Dec 19, 2012)

ABikerSailor said:


> You DO realize that in all these shootings, NOT A SINGLE CONCEALED CARRY OWNER has ever saved anyone, right?



That has been recorded.


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## eots (Dec 19, 2012)

(NaturalNews) In the midst of all the anti-gun hysteria following the senseless murder of 26 people - 20 of them first graders - at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., one story that is repeatedly overlooked is how often a firearm has been used to save lives and stop senseless murders.

We here at Natural News believe the mainstream media, which so often overlooks these kinds of stories because they don't fit into the statist government worldview held by the majority of news editors, has done a disservice to the public by ignoring these acts of selflessness and heroism.

Numerous school massacres stopped by gun owners who wielded their weapons in defense of children


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## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 19, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> LeftCoastVoter said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...


great comparison, your just compared children to sheep and their need to protected by dogs. 

wow are you an ignorant fool.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 19, 2012)

"statist government worldview".  Sigh.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 19, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



I am also fairly certain that every gun shop in the country would be jumping at the chance to offer "Teacher Discounts" to those teachers who volunteer to be armed and trained at school, in much the same way that other stores offer "Teacher Discounts" for educational and craft supplies.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 19, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Let me give you guys a couple of lists.

First List:

Columbine, CO
Aurora, CO
Virginia Tech, VA

Second List:

Clackamas Town Center, OR
Pearl, MS
New Life Church, Colorado Springs, CO

The first list looks pretty familiar, I'll bet, and I'll bet equally that the second doesn't.  Why is that?

Well, the three on the first list had two things in common:  they were all "gun-free zones", and they all hosted mass shootings that left dozens of people dead.

The three on the second list have two things in common as well:  all of them were targeted by spree shooters, and all of them were saved from dozens of deaths by armed civilians.

Oh, one other interesting commonality:  the three on the first list were reported on widely by the mass media.  The three on the second list were barely reported on at all.

John Fund points out in "National Review" that the shooter at the Aurora, CO, movie theater had seven theaters within 20 minutes of his home, and he did NOT simply choose the one closest to him.  He very specifically chose the ONE theater out of the seven which bans its customers from bringing their guns inside, which is allowed under Colorado law.

It seems pretty obvious to ME that the danger isn't in crazy people with guns; it's in crazy leftists with gun-free zones.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 19, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



You're talking about a lot of security guards, however, if all the schools are to get them.  And those who could pass the requisite background checks, psych evaluations, etc. plus the benefits and pensions that would factor in would make that an expensive proposition for a politically unpopular program.  Still, all your suggestions should not be dismissed out of hand but should certainly factor into the debate.

My instincts lean toward an armed faculty with the training to be effective if needed being a greater deterrant than identifiable guards.  But I am open to anything that would work.

One thing that occurred to me would be security bars on ground floor windows that, like home bars are required to be, are releasable from inside the classroom.  That could make the windows themselves an emergency exit.


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## Crackerjack (Dec 19, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> "statist government worldview".  Sigh.


He's talking about fascist dickholes like you.


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 19, 2012)

ABikerSailor said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > For all the long winded arguments the answer is quite simple.
> ...


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## Crackerjack (Dec 19, 2012)

ABikerSailor said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > For all the long winded arguments the answer is quite simple.
> ...


This is why it's not a good idea to get all of one's news from the television.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 19, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



He is too stupid to understand things and think them through for himself.

He and the other libtards here can only parot what the media tells them.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 19, 2012)

idb said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



No, twat waffle, the intent YOU'D LIKE my words to have might be clear, but since I said nothing of the sort, or even implied, obviously what we have here is YOU making up arguments you'd like me to make, and trying to force me to be responsible for them.

Allow me to once again cordially invite you to fuck yourself and die.

And trying to claim that the problem is that one of the most literate posters on this board isn't "posting with discernible intelligence", so you just had no choice but to attribute some utterly retarded, extremist absurdity to her because YOU were too lofty and superior to understand, is BEYOND laughable.  You are now in JakeStarkey territory, and I hope you're incredibly proud of the ranking you've earned.  Knowing you, you're probably thrilled.

Respond to MY ACTUAL WORDS (Hint:  It will not involve the phrase "So you're saying . . ."), or consider yourself to have surrendered.  Period.  End of discussion.  Grow a pair, or start waving your white flag.  I'm sure your pissant country has borrowed a few from France and Australia.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 19, 2012)

idb said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Ha!  Welcome to reality.  Just because the World Wide Web gives you the ability to shoot your mouth off doesn't mean it gives you the ability to MATTER.

See above, re: you have no dog in this fight.  You are not an American.  You do not come from a country anyone in America respects, unless we need to shoot lengthy fantasy movies.  You do not get a vote.  You can talk until your ignorant face turns purple, and you STILL WILL NOT MATTER.  We will do whatever we do, and we will not give thought one to what a bunch of pissant sheep-rapers from a second-rate annex of Australia think about it.

Congratulations.  You are now officially the biggest non-entity on the planet.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 19, 2012)

idb said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



I understand irony just fine, twat waffle.  Whether you thought you were being "ironic" or not, my analysis of your post is still spot-on.  It was retarded, juvenile, extremist, and ultimately meaningless, because people in the United States care even less what you have to say than people in your own country do, and that was a tough bar to clear.

Try to grasp this, shitstain:  I don't go to message boards about the politics in other countries and pontificate about what they should and shouldn't do, and how their countries OUGHT to be.  Why?  Well, two reasons.  One, most countries - like yours - are such utter non-entities that no one outside of them gives a rat's ass if they disappear tomorrow.  Two, because I'm not an arrogant dipshit who thinks the rest of the world is breathless with anticipation of my opinion on how to run their lives.

I discuss MY OWN COUNTRY, because it's the only one that's MY BUSINESS.

Take a fucking lesson, Nobody.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 19, 2012)

idb said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



And you're still telling me stuff I don't give a shit about.  Do us all a favor and hold your breath while you wait for someone to ASK you about yourself.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 19, 2012)

idb said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



"Pay attention to me!  I exist!  I MATTER, damn it!"  I wonder if you learned that song and dance from watching your ambassador at the United Nations.

Wait, does your shitheel country even GET to go to the United Nations?  Who cares enough to find out?


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 19, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Well, as usual, he's being utterly dishonest and disingenuous.

"In all these shootings", he says.  Well, yes and no.  The shootings that have resulted in huge body counts and been plastered all over the news?  No, not a single concealed-carry owner has saved anyone . . . BECAUSE THEY ALL TOOK PLACE IN GUN-FREE ZONES.

On the other hand, in many shootings and attempted shootings which did NOT make it on the news, because the media doesn't like to publicize such things, the shooter was stopped by armed citizens, saving countless lives.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 19, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...



You  cant explain this stuff to the gun grabbers; they dont want to understand it even if they could.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 19, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



I'm planning to continue explaining it to them, anyway, and it'll either get into their heads or make their heads explode.  Either way, I win.


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## idb (Dec 19, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



You've given ourself the award of 'One Of The Most Literate Posters On This Board'.
Congratulations, I bet your Mum is very proud.
Did you give yourself a badge?
I bet you did...and probably a gold-painted cardboard crown that you made yourself as well.

As far as your ACTUAL WORDS are concerned I'm not sure which of your spittle-flecked shrieks you might be referring to.
Since you've tried so hard to demonstrate some sort of expertise in flinging invective, I admit that I've lost track if you actually made any intelligible points.
Can you think of any?

Insulting my country is even more hilarious.
You just fling the crap everywhere don't you?
You make me think of that cartoon Tasmanian Devil that goes everywhere in a blur of claws and teeth and curses.
The entertainment factor is high with you.


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## idb (Dec 19, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Welcome to the world wide web.

I note that, as well as the award you gave yourself earlier, you have now given yourself the status of spokesperson for all Americans.
You're status is rising with every second isn't it?
Another badge for that one too?

Getting a bit foamier around the mouth by the look of it though.


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## idb (Dec 19, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



'Twat Waffle'?!!!
Your high literacy knows no bounds!
'Shitstain'...I'm impressed!
Truly, you deserve that little plastic badge and cardboard crown.
Wear them with appropriate pride.



Hahahaha...'twat waffle'......


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 19, 2012)

idb said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



It's not an "award", dimwit; just reality.  If you can get anyone other than your handful of compatriots in the "Board Laughingstock Club" to disagree, go for it.

"Boo hoo hoo.  You say mean things.  I'm so distracted by looking for a teacher to tattle to that I can't figure out what your sentences mean.  Waaaahh!"    The fact that you go all to pieces and lose the ability to concentrate and understand English the first time someone looks at you cross-eyed falls under the heading of "Not My Problem".  It also falls, along with your opinion, under the heading of "Things About Which Nary A Shit Is Given".

I suggest you find someone who aspires to the same handholding leftist fantasies you do.  Check the panty-wearers on my Ignore list.  

As for your country, if it wasn't a second-rate non-entity, you wouldn't be dancing around the ankles of people who live in important countries, yapping for their attention about THEIR politics.  Like I've already said, you don't see ME frequenting message boards about your pissant nation, now do you?  You don't see your country's news and politics being broadcast all over the world, with everyone and his fucking brother killing themselves to be the first to make their meaningless comments about it, do you?  I doubt you could find five people in America (who weren't refugee sheep-rapers from your country, that is) who even KNOW what's going on in your country (assuming anything can be said to actually go on there).

So if you want to laugh about the fact that you mean nothing and come from a place that means nothing and are frantically trying to get in on the issues of a nation that's actually important, then I guess whatever keeps you from sticking a gun in your mouth in despair, huh?

The entertainment factor with you, however, is NOT high.  Even if you had a say in what the meaningful nations do, which you don't, you wouldn't have anything to say, and no one would care.  And you've just exhausted my patience; this is the point where the yipping poodle gets kicked into the yard.

Begone, Fifi.


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## idb (Dec 19, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



What?
And miss the chance to have one of our little chats?

By the way...you missed out on insulting my country...are you getting a bit tired?
Try 'sheep-shaggers'...that's always a good standby if you're running out of ideas.


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## idb (Dec 19, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Ah, that's better.


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## The Professor (Dec 19, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...




I thought you might enjoy this article, "We Know How to Stop School Shootings."  by Ann Coulter

Ann Coulter - Official Home Page


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## idb (Dec 19, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Let me translate once more for you.
I think you were trying to say "No, I can't think of any intelligible points I've made amongst my screams and howls."

The most hilarious thing is that you believe being the citizen of a great country by accident of birth somehow makes you, individually, more relevant.
Small people can come from big countries - 'exhibit A' is sitting in front of your keyboard.
Great people can also come from small countries.
This is especially true in today's 'Global Village'.

Unfortunately for the sanity of small people like yourself, a country that is the premier world power will be the subject of interest and scrutiny by the rest of the world.
This is simply because decisions made by that country affect the rest of the world.

So, by all means continue your pointless and ineffectual tirades if it relieves the pressure in your temples, but pointless and ineffectual...and small... is exactly what they are...no more or less important than my own highly lucid and analytical offerings to the world of the internet.

It's a shame you went back to the sheep shagging insults, I quite liked twat waffle...have you got any more?


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## eots (Dec 19, 2012)




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## ABikerSailor (Dec 20, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Sorry, but the attacker committed suicide.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 20, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



In the latter case we all win. Good luck.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 20, 2012)

ABikerSailor said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...



ROFLMAO, of course he did BECAUSE HE HAD BEEN STOPPED and intended to kill himself first.

You are stupid beyond belief.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 20, 2012)

eots said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fHJcSsC0aY



Morgan is the epitome of these condescending idiots who  refuse to consider what their opponents are saying and talk over them when they fear their opponents are starting to make sense to the audience.

Pratt points out that the implication of these gun free zones is that libtards apparently think innocent people have no right to self-defense and that they cant be trusted to carry guns around little children though the record of accidental gun injury to children is like one tenth what it is for cars.

The simple truth is libtards dont want discussion; all they want is for Americans to salute smartly and hand over their guns, one type of gun at a time till we are disarmed and legally prevented from defending ourselves even in our own homes at night against intruders, as it is in the UK where innocent people 'guilty' only of defending themselves at night when burglarers broke into their homes, and they sent those people to jail for protecting themselves with lethal force.

That is what Americans have to look forward to if these bat-shit crazy gun grabbing whores get their way. And in this country it would not result in the occasional imprisonment of Americans for the crime of defending themselves as the criminals would be so emboldened the violent crime right would literally explode.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 20, 2012)

idb said:


> Let me translate once more for you.
> I think ...



Bullshit, libtards like you refuse to think when your ideology has already spoken for you.



idb said:


> you were trying to say "No, I can't think of any intelligible points I've made amongst my screams and howls."



Obviously she wasnt trying to say anything of the sort, but dont let Truth get in your way, fucking liar.



idb said:


> The most hilarious thing is that you believe being the citizen of a great country by accident of birth somehow makes you, individually, more relevant.



No, we think we are a free people who have the right to defend ourselves and our family. We would never imprison a person for merely doing that, except for leftwing bastards like you.



idb said:


> Small people can come from big countries - 'exhibit A' is sitting in front of your keyboard.



Funny coming from a piss ant like you.



idb said:


> Great people can also come from small countries.
> This is especially true in today's 'Global Village'.



Another fucking lie; there is no such thing as a global village moron.



idb said:


> Unfortunately for the sanity of small people like yourself, a country that is the premier world power will be the subject of interest and scrutiny by the rest of the world.




Because you dont have anything better to do with your time.



idb said:


> This is simply because decisions made by that country affect the rest of the world.



Yes, and we conservatives are really trying hard to bring all our troops home, but leftists prefer to keep the neocons in charge of the GOP so that means they can win in the general elections (against neocons like Romney the Lame). But when the neocon ocasionally manages to get into the White House, they go  adventuring around the globe in the name of spreading democracy like the Democrats used to do before they got taken over by Trotskyites.



idb said:


> So, by all means continue your pointless and ineffectual tirades if it relieves the pressure in your temples, but pointless and ineffectual...and small... is exactly what they are...



No actually she has made a lot of good points that you are too stupid to understand.



idb said:


> no more or less important than my own highly lucid and analytical offerings to the world of the internet.



Yeah, and you are the most humble person on the planet, too, arent you?



idb said:


> It's a shame you went back to the sheep shagging insults, I quite liked twat waffle...have you got any more?



Why? So you could use them with your perv friends at your next circle jerk?

ROFLMAO


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 20, 2012)

The Professor said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...



Ann Coulter is a backstabbing traitorus bitch.

Thanks in part to her leading the charge for Romney, we now have another four years of Obama. She singlehandedly did more damage to conservatives in the last election than anyone else did except for Romney the Liar himself.

To hell with Coulter. All her columns are are cynical excersizes in inflaming the GOP conservative base while she couldnt possibly really believe that stuff whle supporting Romney. Her true colors or now known and they will not be forgotten.

Piss on her and I could not care less what she has to say any more, not at all.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 20, 2012)

9thIDdoc said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



She was a trained police office.  Argument Fail.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 20, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Ann Coulter is a backstabbing traitorus bitch.
> 
> Thanks in part to her leading the charge for Romney, we now have another four years of Obama. She singlehandedly did more damage to conservatives in the last election than anyone else did except for Romney the Liar himself.
> 
> ...



Oh, stop being so hard on Ann.  She did what most Conservatives did.  Convinced themselves that Romney was really conservative and Mormons weren't heretics anymore because Gosh, Darn, he was the Only Candidate You Had.  

As awful as Romney was, look at the alterntatives. 

Santorum- A guy whose name has become another word for anal discharge. 
Gingrich-   Cheater, hypocrite, blowhard. 
Perry -     Possibly Clinically Retarded. 
Bachmann -  Crazy
Cain-    Self-Aggrandizing phony
Paul -  Really, really crazy.  

I voted for Santorum in the primaries because unlike most of the GOP, he actually gets working people, but the GOP voted for another plutocrat, because, deep down, that's who really runs your party.  

Guns, abortions, gay marriage... The plutocrats use these to keep stupid people like you angry, but they are looking for any oppurtunity to sell you out.  

Just watch.  Now that rich kids are getting shot up instead of poor kids, (Because the poor kids know how do duck), watch how fast the Plutocrats get behind gun control.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 20, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Because teachers are hired to teach, foxfyre, not be armed security personnel for a profession.



Some school districts allow them to do both.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 20, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Because teachers are hired to teach, foxfyre, not be armed security personnel for a profession.
> ...



There is a valid debate in progress about the tremendous liability that would be incurred by the school district if a teacher should miscalculate a threat and shoot an innocent person or if weapons at school were stolen, etc.   And yes, all these things should be considered.

But if it is your loved one at Sandy Hook Elementary, does any sane person give a flip about the debate or PC or liability considerations?  Do you want your six-year old gunned down by a madman?  Or, given a choice, do you want the gunman taken out by a teacher?  I think for 99.9% of all parents, that is a no brainer.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 20, 2012)

Very, very few do, and that number will not grow.

I get a kick out of Rick Perry of Texas encouraging teachers to ask for the right to do so.

He will end up with armed teacher associations protesting anti-ed bills by his legislature.



Grampa Murked U said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Because teachers are hired to teach, foxfyre, not be armed security personnel for a profession.
> ...


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## koshergrl (Dec 20, 2012)

We need to claim our country back from the fucking insurance companies. They've ruined us.

Funny...my ex father in law said that when auto liability insurance became law. He said it was the beginning of the end, and insurance companies would destroy the country.

Everybody said he was crazy. He wasn't, he was brilliant, and right.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 20, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> We need to claim our country back from the fucking insurance companies. They've ruined us.
> 
> Funny...my ex father in law said that when auto liability insurance became law. He said it was the beginning of the end, and insurance companies would destroy the country.
> 
> Everybody said he was crazy. He wasn't, he was brilliant, and right.



Well. . . .while you and I have been mostly on the same page in this debate, I don't agree that insurance companies are the problem.  I have no problem requiring those who use the public roads and thereby put others at risk being required to have insurance that covers damages that others might sustain.   I would have a huge problem with those who do not put a vehicle on the public roads being required to have such insurance or subsidizing those who do.

To me, the problem is ambiguous laws, most especially those based on political correctness and that absolve people from any personal responsiblity for bad choices, that gives license and huge opportunity for predatory lawyers to capitalize on almost any action or event in the human experience.


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## koshergrl (Dec 20, 2012)

I agree about the laws.

But the laws empower the insurance companies.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 20, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> I agree about the laws.
> 
> But the laws empower the insurance companies.



To some extent, but as long as there is valid competition between insurance companies, they each will be working to get the business and that results in better benefits and lower costs.  Insurance companies sell a product like any other business.  But it is not the insurance companies requiring us to buy their products.  It is generally those unwilling to accept all the risk for loaning us money or contracting with us or who share the roads and highways with us who require us to buy insurance.

And if we reined in our unreasonably litigious society, that insurance would cost a whole lot less because the insurance companies would be assuming a lot less risk.


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 20, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Very, very few do, and that number will not grow.
> 
> I get a kick out of Rick Perry of Texas encouraging teachers to ask for the right to do so.
> 
> ...


Just like armed police unions do.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 20, 2012)

That's true!  How funny!!


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 20, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...


Don't need the schools looking anymore like prison's, but rather instead we only need to get the lax in security at them up-graded to better security, and/or working again for all... QUICKLY!


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 20, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...


And hey we want trained security officers at the schools now or we want a trained Principle and his or her immediate staff to be trained as well, and this in the concealed handgun carry now for them to have as the best option or one of the best options, and to become constables also (i.e. deputized as safety officers in the school system) .

All the signs should be removed that say "gun free zones" in which was an idiotic bull crap thing to do anyhow, especially as being a knee jerk response to these situations I guess shortly afterwards. 

This was not the answer (gun free zones) in the Columbine shootings or none of the other shootings that had came very soon afterwards, so lets get this right as America depends on us to get it right, and I mean as quick as possible, because they depend on us right now, and not way later when it comes to their children and their safety.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 20, 2012)

We want trained security or LEO personnel.

Let the teachers teach.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 20, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> We want trained security or LEO personnel.
> 
> Let the teachers teach.



And how about teachers that are also former security guards?

lol, dumbfuck, go play with your peepee somewhere else, ok? You're embarrasing.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 20, 2012)

One bullet for how many childrens lives?


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 20, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> One bullet for how many childrens lives?



Hypothetically the teacher would only need one per perp.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 20, 2012)

Yes, JB, you continue to embarrass yourself in front of your betters.

School boards will have to make initial decisions about this, and I imagine the legislatures will chip in.

One school district in a very small Texas town does let teachers carry conceal in school because the school attorney on contract, who is also the city attorney part-time, assures the school board that teachers are immune to liability.  

That attorney is wrong.



JimBowie1958 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > We want trained security or LEO personnel.
> ...


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 20, 2012)

In reality, JB's opinion has no place.


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 20, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> We want trained security or LEO personnel.
> 
> Let the teachers teach.


"We"?

Got a frog in your pocket, dumbass?


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 20, 2012)

Hey, cracker, good to see you.  Show me with solid, objective evidence that Americans overwhelmingly want their children's teachers armed to the teeth in the classroom.


----------



## Crackerjack (Dec 20, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Hey, cracker, good to see you.  Show me with solid, objective evidence that Americans overwhelmingly want their children's teachers armed to the teeth in the classroom.


You speak for all Americans now?  When did that happen?

I speak for myself, and I don't want my kid shot by some psycho.  If training and arming teachers who volunteer for it will keep that from happening, I'm good with that.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 20, 2012)

Good for you, cracker, you should speak for yourself.

And if you want to speak for others, give some evidence.

I think the polls will shift dramatically before the 1st of the year that will show American parents overwhelmingly disagree with you.

However, there are some parents in our school district who do feel as you.  Not many, a few, but that is more than none.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 21, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Good for you, cracker, you should speak for yourself.
> 
> And if you want to speak for others, give some evidence.
> 
> ...


Only need a few, NOT MANY, and that is more than enough for each school..


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 21, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Yes, JB, you continue to embarrass yourself in front of your betters.
> 
> School boards will have to make initial decisions about this, and I imagine the legislatures will chip in.
> 
> ...



Another self-important post from Starkey the Liar full of unwarranted assertions as if he defines what is right, what is moral and has  a perfect crystal ball for the future.

Go back to your dildoes, Twinky.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 21, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Hey, cracker, good to see you.  Show me with solid, objective evidence that Americans overwhelmingly want their children's teachers armed to the teeth in the classroom.
> ...



Starkey the Liar is a delusional moron who thinks he has command of all Reality.

He is best ignored, but sometimes it is fun to slap his stupid ass around for laughs because it not only does not hurt his feelings (he is too stupid to realize when he has lost) he actually thinks he is proiving his points with all of these gratuitous assertions and pretntion of being an authority.

Piss on him.


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 21, 2012)

Here's the reason why we don't want teachers to have guns... 

How Self-Compassion Can Help Prevent Teacher Burnout | Greater Good



> It wasn&#8217;t until April that we finally managed to get Stephen the psychological help he had so badly needed for years. By that time, though, my nerves were frayed. Every night, I fretted about what more I could do to help Stephen, and I constantly beat myself up for not being able to establish a classroom where all students felt happy and safe.
> 
> Without realizing it, I was on the road to burnout.
> 
> Teacher burnout is almost epidemic in this country and is one of the causes of the 17 percent annual attrition rate amongst educators. Scientists have found that teachers can burnout from the negative emotions and inefficacy they feel around the challenges of managing their students.



In short, teaching is already one of the most stressful jobs in the country.   That's why they compensate them so well, much to the Chagrin of "Conservatives" who think that they are overpaid because they kept their middle class salaries when everyone else lost theirs.  

So on top of that, you nutters want to give them guns... yeah, that's going to help.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 21, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Here's the reason why we don't want teachers to have guns...
> 
> How Self-Compassion Can Help Prevent Teacher Burnout | Greater Good
> 
> ...



So now you are back to slandering teachers? 'oh, the poor dears couldnt handle a gun and the stress might make them feint, poor little frail creatures!' etc.

And yet teachers in Thailand and Isreal DO IT EVERY FUCKING DAY, DUMBSHIT.

So are American teachers just more frail and stupid than most around the world?

Or is this just another one of your bullshit lies you try to pass off on people to distract them from the obvious solution?

Because it seems that without crisis to exploit the Leftist criminal Synidcate cant push much of its agenda, now can it? So you cant have this kind of thing really fixed at all, now can you?


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 21, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> So now you are back to slandering teachers? 'oh, the poor dears couldnt handle a gun and the stress might make them feint, poor little frail creatures!' etc.
> 
> And yet teachers in Thailand and Isreal DO IT EVERY FUCKING DAY, DUMBSHIT.
> 
> ...



Israel is an evil Apartheid state that is going to be wiped off the map to the cheers of the rest of the world, so I wouldn't use them as an example.  Their teachers are armed in places where they keep their neighbors in concentration camps.... hardly a good example. 

Thailand, a country where women are sold like meat, has one of the highest crime rates in Asia. 

Thailand: Crime

Their homicide rate with guns 41/100,000 people, compared to 9/100,000 for the US (which is still way too high.)


----------



## Gadawg73 (Dec 21, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > So now you are back to slandering teachers? 'oh, the poor dears couldnt handle a gun and the stress might make them feint, poor little frail creatures!' etc.
> ...



Israel treats Palestinians better than any country in the region.
Most ban Palestinians from owning land, any professional job and any public sector job.
In most all of those Arab and Persian countries Palestinians have NO civil rights.
They are allowed to vote in Israel unlike most all other countries in the region. 
Several Palestinians sit on the Knesset you *DUMB ASS*.
They flock to Isreal to work and own property.
You are not very smart Joe. Very good though at rank talking points.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 21, 2012)

Nope, you need a lot.  I sat on school boards (one private, one public ~ never lost an election) for years, and on this issue, it is going to take a lot of parents. 





beagle9 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Good for you, cracker, you should speak for yourself.
> ...


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 21, 2012)

More homo-erotic statements from JimBowie the latent homosexual.

Jim, we all get that you are not happy.  You disagree.  I could care less.

Because you are completely wrong on this issue.



JimBowie1958 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, JB, you continue to embarrass yourself in front of your betters.
> ...


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 21, 2012)

JimBowie the twinky has problems that we are not like Israel or Thailand.

He is wrong.  Nothing more than that.

JoeB is not slandering teachers, while JB wants to make teachers armed security when the great majority will probably not want anything to do with that.

Professional security in the schools is the answer, not armed teachers.





JimBowie1958 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Here's the reason why we don't want teachers to have guns...
> ...


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 21, 2012)

Crackerjack said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > We want trained security or LEO personnel.
> ...


 
Jake likes to pretend his far left loon voice is the voice of the Republican party.

Everybody knows he's a paid schill, but he continues the farce. Presumably to bring in that $$$$.


----------



## LeftCoastVoter (Dec 21, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...


this coming from the idiot who only a 9 days ago said this:

"I didn't agree there is no proof, I said I wasn't going to provide proof. Though there is no proof."


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 21, 2012)

Lol. That was a good one, if I do say so myself.

And perfectly true and logical. Which is why it so angers you. Seek help.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 21, 2012)

Yes, koshergrl is genuinely disturbed, very disturbed.


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 21, 2012)

The way you converse with yourself and carry on as if you are multiple entities reminds me of nothing so much as...Gollum.

"Yes my precious" and "No no no we don't like hobbits" and such. 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLvIFRNbqOs]Gollum - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 21, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Here's the reason why we don't want teachers to have guns...
> 
> How Self-Compassion Can Help Prevent Teacher Burnout | Greater Good
> 
> ...


Good points, and that is why I am for the plain clothes security officers being hired to each school in the nation, where as teachers can go on being teachers and students can go on being students in the class rooms, while the security learns how to train up for the job, and then deal with the rest of it as security does..

Now I don't think that we should allow just any kind of security company to provide security, but rather to hand pick these officers, and to let the parents and school staff be influential in this task as well, but still yet trusting the pro's to get the job done for them all in the end.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 21, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Nope, you need a lot.  I sat on school boards (one private, one public ~ never lost an election) for years, and on this issue, it is going to take a lot of parents.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was talking about the security for each school..


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 21, 2012)

The school board is going to have to decide the superintendent's recommendations is worthwhile or not.

The supe is going to pay very close attention to the parents and taxpayers.

I certainly agree we need security in the schools.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 21, 2012)

LeftCoastVoter said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



I don't know what you are talking about, but I do know the history of jake starkey as a member here. koshergrl is pretty much dead on.


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 21, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> [
> 
> Israel treats Palestinians better than any country in the region.
> Most ban Palestinians from owning land, any professional job and any public sector job.
> ...



I've heard that same lame argument used by defenders of Apartheid in the 1980's.  The Bothas were treating their blacks better than other African leaders, why all the upset?  

Just because a few suck-ups have gone along with the people who stole their land, doesn't mean much.  

It will be a happy day when Israel is pushed into the sea!


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 21, 2012)

If I get jumped on by JoeB, bigreb, koshergrl, and crazies like them, I am validly in the middle of sanity.  

The loons, like them, are on the opposite extremes.


----------



## koshergrl (Dec 21, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Nope, you need a lot. I sat on school boards (one private, one public ~ never lost an election) for years, and on this issue, it is going to take a lot of parents.
> ...


 
Does it creep anyone else out that habitual liar jake, who obviously has myriad weirdo issues, sat on school boards?

Do you believe him?

I sure as shit don't. If he did, it's a scary thought.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 21, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



 I don't think anyone believes that.


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 21, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> If I get jumped on by JoeB, bigreb, koshergrl, and crazies like them, I am validly in the middle of sanity.
> 
> The loons, like them, are on the opposite extremes.



NO, guy, it just proves you are a sad, lonely troll who wants to hand with the "Cool kids".


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 21, 2012)

JoeB, you have been trolling for some time now on the Board, and you are engaged in projection.

It is The Season, Jesus is the Reason, and you need to lighten, my little moonbeam.


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 21, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> JoeB, you have been trolling for some time now on the Board, and you are engaged in projection.
> 
> It is The Season, Jesus is the Reason, and you need to lighten, my little moonbeam.



Jesus never existed... 

And frankly, you are the one who picks fights with both sides, for what reason, I"m not sure.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 21, 2012)

Yes, the Savior is real and your rage is not based on reality, which is your problem.

You wacks on the far left and the wacks on the far right are the problem with America, not the right of center to left of center mainstream.



JoeB131 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB, you have been trolling for some time now on the Board, and you are engaged in projection.
> ...


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 21, 2012)

My analysis is based on HISTORY. 

If the savior is "real", why are the only "official" biographies so contradictory in the details of his life. 

Case in point, in the spirit of the season.  

Matthew has Jesus' birth in 4 BCE, about the time Herod the Great died. 

Luke has Jesus' birth in 6 AD, when Quirinius was Governor of Syria and Judea.  

See the problem?   



JakeStarkey said:


> Yes, the Savior is real and your rage is not based on reality, which is your problem.
> 
> You wacks on the far left and the wacks on the far right are the problem with America, not the right of center to left of center mainstream.
> 
> ...


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 21, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> My analysis is based on HISTORY.
> 
> If the savior is "real", why are the only "official" biographies so contradictory in the details of his life.
> 
> ...



If you are going to use history stop being so selective on what history you use.


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 21, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > My analysis is based on HISTORY.
> ...



Not at all.  I'm being kind of pragmatic.  If Christian Prime Sources can't agree on a pretty basic bit of info about Jesus and his life, how can we trust any of the rest of it? 

Since every source on Jesus is second or third hand, how can we know what he really said or believed?  

In fact, Yeshua was such a common name, they might well be referring to multiple characters.


----------



## Unkotare (Dec 21, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...




You can't believe anything that Fakey says. He's really not all there.


----------



## Unkotare (Dec 21, 2012)

And of course, JoeB is just a hateful little nobody.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 21, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


Yet you are a anti gun schmuck


----------



## Unkotare (Dec 21, 2012)

How did this thread about arming teachers turn into ANOTHER excuse for JoeBlow to rant about his bigotry and existential insecurity?


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 21, 2012)

Yup, your info does not prove that Jesus did not live.  Most atheist historians believe He did, but not that he was Lord and Savior.  What a kook atheist from the far left thinks is immaterial.  And when he is being seconded by one of the outright kooks of the limited government wing, then I know I am on safe ground.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 21, 2012)

jakestarkey said:


> yup, your info does not prove that jesus did not live.  Most atheist historians believe he did, but not that he was lord and savior.  What a kook atheist from the far left thinks is immaterial.  And when he is being seconded by one of the outright kooks of the limited government wing, then i know i am on safe ground.



STOP posting THINGS I AGREE With, you perv!

Edit: I hate it when the ALL CAPS auto-editor kicks in, lol.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 21, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



He's not all there?


I think a better phrase would be 'little of him is left'. Hell crows couldnt make a meal of his sanity.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 21, 2012)

You are the homo-erotic wannabee Christian having problems with the facts.

You and the rest of the kooks from the far left and far right and libertarian wings amuse me.

And the more you post the more America is safe from you.



JimBowie1958 said:


> jakestarkey said:
> 
> 
> > yup, your info does not prove that jesus did not live.  Most atheist historians believe he did, but not that he was lord and savior.  What a kook atheist from the far left thinks is immaterial.  And when he is being seconded by one of the outright kooks of the limited government wing, then i know i am on safe ground.
> ...


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 21, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> You are the homo-erotic wannabee Christian having problems with the facts.
> 
> You and the rest of the kooks from the far left and far right and libertarian wings amuse me.
> 
> And the more you post the more America is safe from you.



LOL, stupid shithead, America has ALWAS been safe from me as I am not threat to America, or as you and your gestapo butt-buddies call it, 'The Land of the SUCKERS'.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 21, 2012)

Jim, all fascists publicly say what you said below about the country being safe from your kind.  Hitler and all his buddies, including the homo-erotic fascists like you, said it.



JimBowie1958 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > You are the homo-erotic wannabee Christian having problems with the facts.
> ...


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 21, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Jim, all fascists publicly say what you said below about the country being safe from your kind.  Hitler and all his buddies, including the homo-erotic fascists like you, said it.



There you go projecting again, little twinky.


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 21, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> [
> Yet you are a anti gun schmuck



No, not really. 

I have no problem with responsible, thoughtful people who are properly licensed and insured having guns.   

I have a big problem with crazy people buying them.  

I'm just not sure why you don't...


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 21, 2012)

Homo-erotica rules JB's secret life. 

Anyone can go back to the beginning of this, read, and end up laughing all night at your silliness.

You can't win when you are lying.



JimBowie1958 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Jim, all fascists publicly say what you said below about the country being safe from your kind.  Hitler and all his buddies, including the homo-erotic fascists like you, said it.
> ...


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 21, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Homo-erotica rules JB's secret life.
> 
> Anyone can go back to the beginning of this, read, and end up laughing all night at your silliness.
> 
> You can't win when you are lying.



That is why, unlike you, I dont lie for a cheap rhetorical point.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 21, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...


Careful, because there may come a day when people whom speak out like you do in these sorts of ways, will be arrested for treason as is found openly now in this nation more and more....It is that the nation may come to it's senses finally, and when people whom speak these sorts of things like you did here, along with others in the same way, may cause you or anyone else to have to pay for such treasonous speak with possible prison sentences and/or other punishments that will fit these types of crimes all depending. 

I can't believe the attitudes that people hold openly now in this nation, and especially for what you are saying or advocating here in this post, because it is as anti-American as it gets... It is that everyone of you whom keep revealing yourselves like this, may soon be noted as to what kind of people you actually are, and worse it is that you are sadly living right here in America free, and yet are accusing her (America) constantly as being bad in your eyes or even criminal as a whole, and therefore it is revealing how you and others think in these sorts of anti-American ways like you have expressed here. wow

Any anti-Jewish post like this, is also anti-American as well, so I hope you know this.


----------



## theunbubba (Dec 22, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> 
> Yes?
> 
> ...



They are not increasing, they are decreasing and there's proof. They are just being reported more. Get your facts straight instead of looking like a moron.
They  have dropped from 42 in the 90's under a gun ban on "assault weapons" to 26 in the first decade of this millenium. 
Considering the amount of millenium madness that there has been during that later time I think that to be pretty remarkable.
Connecticut has some of the strictest gun bans in the nation. They didn't prevent this.

The Facts about Mass Shootings - John Fund - National Review Online

You really need to stop jerking at the knee.


----------



## theunbubba (Dec 22, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Nope, you need a lot.  I sat on school boards (one private, one public ~ never lost an election) for years, and on this issue, it is going to take a lot of parents.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jake, You remind me of dildolax over on PF. One week he's a doctor and the next he's a double naught spy from Russia.
I don't believe a word of it.


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 22, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



Are you on some kind of drugs, or are you trying to be ironic...  Because, honestly, I'm not sure what you were going for here...


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 22, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Are you on some kind of drugs, or are you trying to be ironic...  Because, honestly, I'm not sure what you were going for here...



He is just trying to wake you up to the changing nature of our duopoly controlled government. Right now data is being collected on ALL Americans (Holder just gave this the GO signal recently), but later comes the implementation of that data; mass arrests and detentions without charges or trial.

The Patriot Act and the NDAA have laid the legal foundations to a blatant fascist dictatorship, if the elite want to put it into full force, and they could at any given moment.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 22, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



That terrible to have all that bull shit in your mind.
"When Israel is pushed into the sea"


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 22, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



I'm not so sure that that cant happen. Too many Isrealis have lost the will to fight to survive, it seems.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 22, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



It's never going to happen If you want to be on the winning side better pick Israel.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 22, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Is your opinion based on Biblical exegisis of Revelations or other Eschatology?


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 22, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...


And who do we know that thinks like this in the world today ? Extreme muslims or Islamist and such do. So the question is next, who does he support and who does he not support here ? It's obvious by his own words spoken upon whom he supports, but he ask me in reply what was I thinking ? LOL.....Kidding me right ?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 22, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



It's biblical, you can't go up against Israel without getting slapped down.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 22, 2012)

You lie all the time because you can't carry an argument.



JimBowie1958 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Homo-erotica rules JB's secret life.
> ...


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 22, 2012)

You need a nurse to remind you where you are.  



theunbubba said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Nope, you need a lot.  I sat on school boards (one private, one public ~ never lost an election) for years, and on this issue, it is going to take a lot of parents.
> ...


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 22, 2012)

More armed, trained security will be employed, probably 95% professionals maybe 5% teachers, I would think.  This has to be funded, and an use tax on firearms and accessores makes sense.


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 22, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Are you on some kind of drugs, or are you trying to be ironic...  Because, honestly, I'm not sure what you were going for here...
> ...



Ahhh, so he was telling me he was batshit crazy.  I got it. Thanks.


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 22, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> More armed, trained security will be employed, probably 95% professionals maybe 5% teachers, I would think.  This has to be funded, and an use tax on firearms and accessores makes sense.



I think I'd rather spend that money on books than guns... but that's just me.  

So how much money are you willing to waste to try to appease the fetishists?  

For the record... 

Columbine had two armed guards.  

VA Tech had its own police force. 

Ft. Hood was a military base.  

The solution to gun violence is LESS guns, not more.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 22, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Actually, for most Israelis, it isn't worth it anymore.  Most of them would emigrate to the US or Europe if given a chance.  This is just not the wonderful neato idea Great Grandpa had after World War II.  

Having to live in a country where you fence half the populate in because they would kill you and the teachers have to walk around packing heat is not somewhere most sane people want to live in. 

In the next decade, watch for an Aaliyah in reverse... People leaving Israel as the remainder try to rationalize an apartheid against an Islamic Majority.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 22, 2012)

You have to change the amendment to get what you want.  You can't.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 22, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



Quite the contrary, a state founded on a book that reads, "Happy is he who smashes they little one's heads against the stones" (Psalms 137:9) should expect that sort of thing.  

Israel deserves a comeuppance because it is based on "I can be a douchebag because my imaginary friend in the sky says so!"


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 22, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> More armed, trained security will be employed, probably 95% professionals maybe 5% teachers, I would think.  This has to be funded, and an use tax on firearms and accessores makes sense.



Agreed, again.

Will you *STOP DOING THAT*?

little bitch


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 22, 2012)

Your syphilitic dementia is distressing for the readers, but probably not as much as for you.

It is good that you have some moments of lucidness.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 22, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Joe, you seemed to be returning to some level of lucidness, but with posts like that you just remind everyone what a fucking retarded jack ass you are.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 22, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



So what happens the day Israel is defeated or dissolved, and God doesn't appear to save their sorry asses?  

Oh, I know.  "Well, they fell away from God, which is why God lets bad things happen. 

That was usually the excuse the bible used.


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## Samson (Dec 22, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Did you escape from the Israel Forum or the Religion Forum?

Someone needs to throw a fucking net over you and drag you back before you bore the shit out of this thread.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 22, 2012)

Samson said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



I wasn't the one who brought up that Zio-Nazi teachers have to carry guns around because they might be attacked by the indigenous people they stole the land from at any time.  

Besides, it's not like we don't already have 40 "Please don't take my Gun", threads here....


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## beagle9 (Dec 22, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > More armed, trained security will be employed, probably 95% professionals maybe 5% teachers, I would think.  This has to be funded, and an use tax on firearms and accessores makes sense.
> ...




Where were they (the gaurds, military or the police mentioned) ? They weren't ready for what the idiots in this nation had released upon them is where they were, and this is known by all of us now, because the trails and the results can easily lead to the bigger picture being looked back at now, in which is tied in nicely together to these closeted haters and know it all's of this nation, and so that is where they were in their minds (off Gaurd), otherwise they were still living in what was once a peaceful America still (even with all those guns out there in the hands of the good citizens, it was still peaceful for most in America because of), and that is where they were in their minds, but wait meanwhile the ((virus)) being spread into the mentally insane or terrorist who have doorways just left wide open to them afterwards, in which allowed the bad guy's to go from soft target to soft target next, because no one figured that it woud ever spread like it did (this homegrown or foriegn terrorist type of virus in America), but it did catching more Americans and their children off gaurd as within these traggic turn of events that now happen like they do. Now mix hate filled vengence seeking idiots and their influence with the mentally insane, and we had better look out for that volital mix in America now. wow!

HAH, but I bet you that they will be ready from here on out, especially after seeing who the idiots are now more easily, that are to the extreme in this country. Indirectly bad people have brought about these hate filled perps over time in America, whether through the manipulation of directly or indirectly or in the non-treatment or mal-treatment of the insane in which we have going on anymore. We have been left wide open for the kick in the face that we have been getting in our softer areas in the nation, and this by those for whom have lost there way in this society or by foriegn born terrorist, especially when we let idiots create these kinds of set up's unaware, yet many claim afterwards that they don't know anything about anything when the crap finally hits the fan.. I just know that it all needs to stop or it will be stopped by those who won't be fooled anymore, because you won't have to imply or ask that specific question anymore (where were they at), and you know what, that is just good that we have crossed over that idiot built bridge now.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 22, 2012)

Once peaceful America?  Really?  We are among the violent people in the world.


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## Aristotle (Dec 22, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> 
> I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.



The following is my argument that "the arming of teachers" is a slippery slope see the following:



Aristotle said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...



I made a few grammatical editions but nonetheless, this is my response to this thread.


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## Aristotle (Dec 22, 2012)

The following is another response to this thread via dialogue:



Jimmy_Jam said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > In California, for many of our public schools police presence before and after schools have worked fine. Most kindergarten schools have unarmed security. I would assume for the simple fact that the presence of police is overkill (no pun intended) but also, a lot of school districts cannot afford it. Los Angeles Unified School District has been laying off teachers due to the budget. Hell, even UC and Cal State school teachers still have forloughs to accomodate the budget. The arming of teachers is at least, fiscally irresponsible.
> ...



You've made a profound statement:

"The CT shootings changes everything."

Its like what I  have said in another thread, the Conneticut shootings is a classic example of " I only pay attention only if its in my backyard."

Unfortunately we in America haven't addressed the grand issues that are local to us like gang violence, human mental health, along with a host of other issues. Yet with incidents like Columbine, and the (Sandy Hook) Conneticut shooting, only then we are now addressing adolescent mental health, revising gun laws, and concerning ourselves with our children's welfare at school. I think as a whole, comparable to your example of parents fighting at ball games, we focus on the trivial issues instead of the ones in front of us.


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## beagle9 (Dec 22, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Once peaceful America?  Really?  We are among the violent people in the world.


Everything is talked about in percentages of when speaking about peace or etc. concerning people as found anywhere in the world, so why do you act so dumb about these statements when they are made or why do you try and hang on every word in an attempt to find something to make a person apear dumb with like you are doing ? You are also an evil in this nation, and that is to a degree as well, cuz there are others here who take the prize for evilness in degree's of, so maybe that will make you feel a little bit better about it all.


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 22, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> ...



Actually I'd have to say your excuses are flimsey and your priorites suck.Is there any higher priority than protecting the lives entrusted to their care? If so my children would be elsewhere and I suspect a school without students would have budget issues. Teaching accomplishes nothing if the student are too dead to graduate. 
And there isn't a lot of demand for well educated corpses.
The budget for security should come before any thing else. Why not a qualified instructor who could train willing staff members and willing PTA vols. the needed instruction for carry licenses. He could also teach basic firarms safety classes to students. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by 9thIDdoc; Today at 04:29 PM.


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## Aristotle (Dec 22, 2012)

Yes Doc...In the other thread I refuted your position via a series of questions which I know you will fail to address see the following:



9thIDdoc said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



This is a basic argument of sensationalizing something based on some sporadic events.

Ok, let me ask you something.

How often do school shootings happen in your area? What is the ratio of shootings per school, annually?

What is the fiscal budget of schools near where you live?

You say the protection of our children are important then ok, then how would you suggest balancing the budget of equipping every single teacher with bulletproof vest along with standard issued sidearm? Along with teacher cutbacks? Or what about school books, and after school programs? What about extracirricular activities such as competitive sports? Who pays for all of this if cities are struggling to get out of debt yet, makes funding personalized security via armed teachers a priority?


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## beagle9 (Dec 22, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> The following is another response to this thread via dialogue:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey, if we are to keep allowing bad thugs and/or very bad kids to go to school with the good kids, and this by force, and then they are disrupting, killing and threatening the teachers and other kids as well, then hey arming the schools is a very good thing that should have been done or allowed long before now, especially by the way we have ((as idiots ourselves over time)) allowed for bad things to take over our schools in America. 

Some people may not want the schools to be able to protect themselves, because they know their child is a real bad problem child, and may just come home in a body bag, instead of it being the principle, teacher or student at the hands of the bad kid coming home in a body bag instead. How about the teachers who have been intimidated, beaten, and killed even by the crazy student in the past ? 

This has been a very bad problem in schools to be found in the very recent past and past also. We have thwarted our responsibility on all of this for to long now, but why is that and because of who ? These are the things we need to know and get resolved also in this mess.  It is not the GUN's !!!!!!!!!


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 22, 2012)

Because our national narrative demands, requires accuracy and rejects absolutist statements, as if if there were once a peaceful time in America.  We have never been a peaceful nation, from when the folks of Roanoke disappeared between 1587 to 1590 right through to today.  I think our nation is the most wonderful that has ever been, but "peaceful" is not a correct adjective for it.



beagle9 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Once peaceful America?  Really?  We are among the violent people in the world.
> ...


----------



## Aristotle (Dec 22, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > The following is another response to this thread via dialogue:
> ...



By "thugs" "problem child" are you referring to kindergarten aged children, or middle/high school children?

I don't have all the answers but assuming by "thugs" you mean kids in high school who come from an impoverished background or who may suffer from some mental disorder such as anti-social personality disorder or is simply influenced by the wrong crowd and commence in socially destructive acts then we need to get the parents, school psychologists, and the principle involved. If teachers have had reported incidents of being assaulted then we need to get the police involve and and at least remove the problem either away from the school or to an institution that is geared towards assisting children with behavioral issues. 

Protection, although important, ought to be discussed alongside with what is fiscally affordable because the solution is not as easy as putting on a vest and loading a S&W.


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 22, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Yes Doc...In the other thread I refuted your position via a series of questions which I know you will fail to address see the following:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



More flimsey excuses, your priorities coninue to suck, and you've just added irrelevent bullshit.
My local school has an armed and uniformed LOE present although there has never been a shooting incident. Does your city or country not have any police officiers that could be assigned? I did not suggest or mention issued vests vests or psychiatric care but since you mentioned it don't you think that the surviving teachers (if any) and students might need some psychiatic followup even though no friendly fire was involved? And don't you think a teacher deal with psycidtric trama better than being dead?


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## Foxfyre (Dec 22, 2012)

Aristotle makes a valid point though.  Well over 99% of our schools have not had a shooting and will probably never have one.   Making schools into mini prisons with armed guards may increase the safety factor, but at a cost that does not make much sense if a different, and far more cost effective way can be found to increase safety and security.  We could equip all private automobiles with the same safety gear you find on professional racecars and make them infinitely safer too, but most people would rather incur some additional risk rather than incur what would be an impossible cost.

If allowing qualified, screened, and competent volunteer teachers to have easy access to a weapon would be the same deterrant and provide the same degree of security that armed security guards would provide, that seems to be the far more practical and probably far most effective solution.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 22, 2012)

The great majority of teachers and administrators are going to say, "not on my watch, you won't in my school."  The great majority of the parents will back them, I think.


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## Delete752 (Dec 22, 2012)

In my opinion, although it falls into the abyss of bullshit that nobody cares about, deputizing a certain ratio of random male teachers to students would prevent violent acts on such a massive scale. Teachers that have volunteered could go through an impromptu police academy and firearm training in order to be deputized. Mental evaluation etc.. also would be necessary, but why don't we get rid of the full time school cops at large high schools across the nation, get rid of the 60" flat screen televisions posted in front of every hallway used as a message board and cut some of the superfluous things in order to facilitate the deputizing of teachers and give the deputized ones a small pay raise considering they have volunteered to possibly give their lives in the case of a tragedy unfolding like? It was more than 5 minutes after the shooting started before a police officer arrived on scene. Having 8-10 deputized teachers inside of a school that could respond in a minutes notice would undoubtedly prevent tragic loss of life in the dozens like that of the Connecticut shooting. All I'm saying is we were graced with the 2nd amendment in order to protect everything we hold dear, why not utilize what this amendment has given us?


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 22, 2012)

If teachers want to volunteer and if the state exempts them from liability suits, go for it.  Very, very few will do so, I think.


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## Delete752 (Dec 22, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> The great majority of teachers and administrators are going to say, "not on my watch, you won't in my school."  The great majority of the parents will back them, I think.



Without a doubt this would happen, and I'm no constitutional scholar, but from what I understand, the states would have the rights to put stipulations on the whole arming of teachers issue. Let the states vote on it and decide, and if that happens, all the schools in the south will instantly become the safest schools in the nation.


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## Delete752 (Dec 22, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> If teachers want to volunteer and if the state exempts them from liability suits, go for it.  Very, very few will do so, I think.



It's hard to say how educators would respond, but I would like to think there would be a few dutiful male teachers that would want to possess the means to defend their lives, and their students lives. It's hard to say how it would be accepted though, no doubt.


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 22, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> The great majority of teachers and administrators are going to say, "not on my watch, you won't in my school."  The great majority of the parents will back them, I think.



And if they do they prove that they are not responsible enough to be trusted with lives of our children.


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## bodecea (Dec 22, 2012)

9thIDdoc said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > The great majority of teachers and administrators are going to say, "not on my watch, you won't in my school."  The great majority of the parents will back them, I think.
> ...



Is that what teachers signed up for when they went to get their teaching credential?


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 22, 2012)

bodecea said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



They have the right to decide if their own lives are worth defending; they don't have that same right concerning our children. They are acting in loco parentis and if weren't prepared to do so they shouldn't have applied for the job.


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## Delete752 (Dec 22, 2012)

9thIDdoc said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > 9thIDdoc said:
> ...



Exactly. Schools like to use the inloco parentis whenever it comes to giving more power to them(random searches, closed circuit cameras, further involvement in student's lives) but when it comes down to the real issues like this, they seem to forget that phrase they hinge their role in society upon


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## Unkotare (Dec 22, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Aristotle makes a valid point though.  Well over 99% of our schools have not had a shooting and will probably never have one.   Making schools into mini prisons with armed guards may increase the safety factor, but at a cost that does not make much sense if a different, and far more cost effective way can be found to increase safety and security.





What cost are you worried about?


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 22, 2012)

Step off.  You do not decide what teachers must do for their jobs.  The taxpayers, parents, and administration, in compliance with state law, make that decision.



9thIDdoc said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > 9thIDdoc said:
> ...


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 22, 2012)

_Step off. You do not decide what teachers must do for their jobs. The taxpayers, parents, and administration, in compliance with state law, make that decision._

Bite me. As a parent it *my* responsibity to see my children are properly cared for. Murdered is *not *properly cared for.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 22, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle makes a valid point though.  Well over 99% of our schools have not had a shooting and will probably never have one.   Making schools into mini prisons with armed guards may increase the safety factor, but at a cost that does not make much sense if a different, and far more cost effective way can be found to increase safety and security.
> ...



The ones Aristotle brought up in his post and that I have been including as a reasonable component of this debate.  If we have to sacriice teacher salaries or endure larger classroom head counts, etc. in order to budget for additional security, then the idea of arming willing and properly trained teachers becomes even more attractive.  The odds off them never needing to use that weapon are monumental, but in the very rare occasion that their school becomes another Columbine or Sandy Hook, they would be ready.  Mission accomplished without devoting precious education dollars to security guards in every school in the land when more than 99% of them will have little or nothing to do.


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## Unkotare (Dec 23, 2012)

With all the waste that goes into carrying along useless, incompetent teachers and administrators, it would be a much better allocation of funds to pay for at least one real security professional per school.


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## ABikerSailor (Dec 23, 2012)

Quick question........................do you conservatives who are advocating putting armed guards in schools realize how much it would cost this country?

I thought the conservatives were for smaller, not bigger, government.


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## Delete752 (Dec 23, 2012)

ABikerSailor said:


> Quick question........................do you conservatives who are advocating putting armed guards in schools realize how much it would cost this country?
> 
> I thought the conservatives were for smaller, not bigger, government.



Soooo what's the going rate for the life of one small elementary school child these days?


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## PaulS1950 (Dec 23, 2012)

I have reached the conclusion that most of the people on this board would rather:
1. blame someone else for the problem
2. argue whether the problem actually exists
3. complain about the problem
than actually try to find or accept a solution to the problem.

The president has protection  of an armed security force, stadiums use armed security to keep them secure, most of the representatives and celebrities have armed security but it is too expensive to provide for our kids...
*XXXXXXX*
I am volunteering at my grandkids schools. What are you doing?


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## Noomi (Dec 23, 2012)

If you out armed guards in every school, the first person the shooter will target is the armed guard. That is obvious - the shooter will be searching for the guard, the guard will be caught unawares, and shot first, before the shooter targets those who are unarmed.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 23, 2012)

Noomi said:


> If you out armed guards in every school, the first person the shooter will target is the armed guard. That is obvious - the shooter will be searching for the guard, the guard will be caught unawares, and shot first, before the shooter targets those who are unarmed.



Talk about presumption! lol

You dont know that any of that is true, or even more likely. Why would a shooter target a school that has an armed guard instead of one that doesnt? or a hopsital that doesnt? etc.

Why would the shooter target the armed guard instead of avoiding him?

Why do you thinkn that the guard would be such an idiot that he would let an assault rifle bearing goon sneak up on him after bbusting in to a school?

Even if what you say was a 1 in 4 chance or 3 in 4, at least the wacko would have to deal with the guard and give the students more time to get somewhere else, and would give a concealed carry teacher time to line him up.


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## Papageorgio (Dec 23, 2012)

Noomi said:


> If you out armed guards in every school, the first person the shooter will target is the armed guard. That is obvious - the shooter will be searching for the guard, the guard will be caught unawares, and shot first, before the shooter targets those who are unarmed.



If they thought there was an armed guard, they'd target somewhere else, they aren't professionals, they are mental nuts, they want a place to shoot up before they kill themselves.


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## KissMy (Dec 23, 2012)

The best security of all is to allow certain qualified teachers & administrators to carry a concealed weapon. Unlike with a uniformed cop with a gun, the shooter would have no idea who to target with the first shots. It would also not cost tax payers like the uniformed cop with a gun will.

Columbine High School cop says armed guards at schools coupled with assault weapons ban would keep students safe

The NRA has better solution than AWB to keep the children safe. The Clinton Assault Weapons Ban had been in force 5 years before the Columbine Massacre. Again proving wacko liberal gun bans do not work. Connecticut has very strict gun control laws. Sandy Hook elementary had the "Gold Standard" in school security procedures. They had security cameras, door locks, video ID buzz-in security door, terrorist shooter drills, and other systems.

Tragedy Spotlights Connecticut's Previous Efforts At Gun Control

Connecticut's Previous Efforts At Gun Control - "Lawlor and his colleagues enacted a law based on the idea that there can be warning signs. Now, when someone reports to the police they believe a gun owner poses an imminent danger to themselves or to others, the police can get a warrant to seize the guns &#8212; even if no law has been broken. The guns can be kept for a year, and the law also allows for a mental health evaluation.

Bernard Krzynowek had his guns taken the first year the law went into effect. His sister, Christine, called the police when the two of them were having an argument. "I had a pistol on my hip and for some reason she got all uptight and called the police," says the 70-year-old Krzynowek. The police warrant says Christine told them her brother was in possession of guns and "was going to kill her and other relatives." The police seized 39 guns.

"Who's going to take the risk?" Baird says. "What law enforcement officer or what judge is ever going take the risk that they received information like this and then do nothing about it?" In the first ten years after it was enacted, more than 2,000 guns were seized. The majority of the complaints were made by spouses. Mike Lawlor isn't suggesting the law could have prevented the shootings in Newtown, but he believes it has prevented other crimes."


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## JoeB131 (Dec 23, 2012)

9thIDdoc said:


> _Step off. You do not decide what teachers must do for their jobs. The taxpayers, parents, and administration, in compliance with state law, make that decision._
> 
> Bite me. As a parent it *my* responsibity to see my children are properly cared for. Murdered is *not *properly cared for.



So for the record... 

Because you want guns to be freely available to everyone, including people with severe mental issues, you want schools and universities to become armed camps... 

The thing is, these incidents are usually start and finish so quickly, you usually don't have time to pull a gun.  

Columbine had two armed security guards.   The two shooters were still able to kill 17 people. 

VA Tech, like most universities, has its own police force.  In a span of nine minutes, Cho Seung-Hui still managed to kill 28 people on top of the two roommates he killed earlier in the day. 

Fort Hood was a military base, for crying out loud. Nidal Hasan was still able to kill 13 and wound 29 people before someone responded.  

Now, here's the thing. 

All these folks were batshit crazy.  They were still able to get guns.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 23, 2012)

Delete752 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > Quick question........................do you conservatives who are advocating putting armed guards in schools realize how much it would cost this country?
> ...



Less that the price of getting guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them, apparently...


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## beagle9 (Dec 23, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> By "thugs" "problem child" are you referring to kindergarten aged children, or middle/high school children?



Waisted your time writing this didn't you ? Of course not kindergarten children, but my daughter did see a stabbing of another student in middle school...



Aristotle said:


> I don't have all the answers but assuming by "thugs" you mean kids in high school who come from an impoverished background or who may suffer from some mental disorder such as anti-social personality disorder or is simply influenced by the wrong crowd and commence in socially destructive acts then we need to get the parents, school psychologists, and the principle involved.



No they should have been recognized by the parents telling them that there is a problem, then there is a chance that they may have been sent to the other school for behavioral or other problems as needed, especially  before being allowed into the general population with the good kids, the good teachers and/or the good principles in a regular school setting. No one knows there children better than the parents, and if the parents don't want to tell on their children (using the school for a care taking facility), then make fines and consequences of someones child doing something or anything evil at school "very severe", and I bet this will get those parents to open up once they read the admittance rules and standards set forth in the pamplet. Remember all the incidents about kids bringing guns or knives to school, the killings of teachers and others in many singular incidents, are we adding those in as well when talking about these problems ? Remember Hollywoods movie's, where there was one called the Principle, West Side Story, and many others that were drawn from society at large ? In reality these types of situations shouldnot have been created in America to begin with, but there they were for all to see and know about, but years and years later we still never got the message, and then we go about our lives hoping for our kids the best, but then giving them the worst as we turn our backs on them, and this in hopes that we can trust the government to do the best job for them. Well I ask now, how has that been working out for us lately ?



Aristotle said:


> If teachers have had reported incidents of being assaulted then we need to get the police involve and and at least remove the problem either away from the school or to an institution that is geared towards assisting children with behavioral issues.



You talk about this in an after the fact, but we need to be highly pro-active and not re-active, because we see what happens before the cops get there.  



Aristotle said:


> Protection, although important, ought to be discussed alongside with what is fiscally affordable because the solution is not as easy as putting on a vest and loading a S&W.



We can afford what we need in this nation, just keep your eyes on the next big spending proposition, and then ask yourself was the children more important ? Hey they are theeee most important in my opinion... Nothing should come before our childrens safety, and I mean nothing... How many parent stories and true story movies have shown parents sacrificing or going without for their children to make it and to have a better life than they did, and so why can't we as a nation feel and do the same things for them in representation of our governmental body also ?


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## beagle9 (Dec 23, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Delete752 said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...


And so it is revealed that the lib loving demoflops are far more stingy, and are far worse idiotic than the conservatives are being accused of, because they would rather turn a nation completly upside down in an idiotic way of thinking, than to simply put some money into a place where it is needed to fix a problem, and so you all see how they have been the biggest non-supporters of spending any money for the children on this issue right, and so lets let the record please show the truth as it has been recorded as such now with these demoflop loving libs.


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## beagle9 (Dec 23, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > _Step off. You do not decide what teachers must do for their jobs. The taxpayers, parents, and administration, in compliance with state law, make that decision._
> ...


Well how about lets see who is creating all the bat^$&^ crazies in this nation, and lets go after them for a change, because I know plenty about who has indirectly created all of this or them, and who they are, their political affiliations, their ideologies, their leanings on every subject we have in this nation, also their resolve which is always wrong when it comes to our social society at large issues. Many more know them just as well in this nation, but we have a federal government who has been critically infiltrated by their way of thinking, and it is being used by them to protect or cover their ideology or ways of thinking, and this after they have created havoc & chaos within this nation, and so as soon as we start getting an understanding of who they are, it will just continue.. They hide their hand as if they have done nothing or pose as if they are the sane ones in this nation after the fact, but for many of us we know better, and we know who they are everytime they open their mouths.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 23, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Delete752 said:
> ...



Banning private gun ownership will not turn the country upside down.  In fact, when Australia banned guns a couple decades ago, most people complied with the new laws and turned in their guns.  

The problem- as I pointed out - is that these mass shooting happen very quickly, and they are usually carried out by people who don't care if they live or die, so an armed guard or worse, an armed teacher, isn't going to be much of a deterrent.  Columbine and VA Tech had armed security, and it didn't really matter.  

Now, frankly, I would love to hear the gun-nuts tell me how they can keep guns out of the hands of people like Lanza, Loughner, Holmes and Cho without them giving away anything.  

Seriously.  What are your suggestions?


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## JoeB131 (Dec 23, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Now, here's the thing.
> ...



^^^^ this rant kind of makes me question your sanity^^^^

You really think liberalism causes mental illness.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 23, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Banning guns in Australia has done nothing to stop people from being killed with guns nor has it lowered crime in the same country. But do keep trying to be dishonest and I will continue to slap you down.


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## beagle9 (Dec 23, 2012)

KissMy said:


> The best security of all is to allow certain qualified teachers & administrators to carry a concealed weapon. Unlike with a uniformed cop with a gun, the shooter would have no idea who to target with the first shots. It would also not cost tax payers like the uniformed cop with a gun will.
> 
> Columbine High School cop says armed guards at schools coupled with assault weapons ban would keep students safe
> 
> ...


I don't buy into such a supposed law, that when an argument happens between family members, then here comes the law to take all the guns from a private residence, especially something that is not related to public property, or the public and such. Rediculous lib thinking is what this is. 

So I could get set up by someone in this way, and here comes the law to take my guns eh?

Now if a charge has been issued on the scene, or filed and then levied by the law against a gun owner, as pertaining to threats made, domestic violence, drunk and dis-orderly, battery and etc. and a record is also to be found as icing on the cake, then yes all guns should be removed from this person, and also from his residence immediately. Then the person should be banned from having weapons forever, if he or she can't handle their own lives much less a weapon to.


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## beagle9 (Dec 23, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


Oh so you are for the ban on private gun ownership then, well you are a very lone soul among a few who thinks in this way, because most if not almost all in the nation are against this form of thinking.

Hey I just taught my 4 year old grandaughter how to use kid sissors, and when she got done using them she put the sheath back over the sharp part like I taught her, and then she just walkd out of the room saying things like " we must cover up the sharp part and this so we don't cut anything by accident or fall down and hurt ourself etc." where of course I was agreeing with her the whole time. She just came back in the room, and now she is going to show me how to use the sissors safely...Smile...


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## jillian (Dec 23, 2012)

Delete752 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > Quick question........................do you conservatives who are advocating putting armed guards in schools realize how much it would cost this country?
> ...



well, clearly their education and food and care doesn't interest you.

so you would have to answer that.

i guess it depends on what your priorities are.


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## beagle9 (Dec 23, 2012)

How do we keep guns out of the hands of the people you mentioned Joe ? Well for starters, how about all of us stop listening to the bad libs and the idiotic government, so we don't create people like you just mentioned in the first place. That would be the biggest first step to take, and may be the only one needed. All problems solved in America.

Until then, we need to look for the signs of having bad people around us, even if they are family members, the greedy, the bad or extremist libs, bad government etc. and then we need to be honest about it while doing something about it that is correct, and not politically correct.  Now turning the government upside down in order to clean it all up, would be better than turning the nation upside down in which abuses all in an unjust way.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 23, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Banning guns in Australia has done nothing to stop people from being killed with guns nor has it lowered crime in the same country. But do keep trying to be dishonest and I will continue to slap you down.



Did gun control work in Australia?



> So what have the Australian laws actually done for homicide and suicide rates? Howard cites a study (pdf) by Andrew Leigh of Australian National University and Christine Neill of Wilfrid Laurier University finding that the firearm homicide rate fell by 59 percent, and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65 percent, in the decade after the law was introduced, without a parallel increase in non-firearm homicides and suicides. That provides strong circumstantial evidence for the laws effectiveness.



Argument fail...


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## JoeB131 (Dec 23, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> How do we keep guns out of the hands of the people you mentioned Joe ? Well for starters, how about all of us stop listening to the bad libs and the idiotic government, so we don't create people like you just mentioned in the first place. That would be the biggest first step to take, and may be the only one needed. All problems solved in America.
> 
> Until then, we need to look for the signs of having bad people around us, even if they are family members, the greedy, the bad or extremist libs, bad government etc. and then we need to be honest about it while doing something about it that is correct, and not politically correct.  Now turning the government upside down in order to clean it all up, would be better than turning the nation upside down in which abuses all in an unjust way.



I'm  still waiting to hear how "liberalism" causes mental illness.  

This should be a laugh.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 23, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



Actually, most Americans are for some common sense gun control.  But it will be amusing to watch Wayne LaPeirre continue his meltdown on Meet The Press this morning.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 23, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Banning guns in Australia has done nothing to stop people from being killed with guns nor has it lowered crime in the same country. But do keep trying to be dishonest and I will continue to slap you down.
> ...


Because you say so Mr. misinformation?
AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN
AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

 Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.


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## beagle9 (Dec 23, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Banning guns in Australia has done nothing to stop people from being killed with guns nor has it lowered crime in the same country. But do keep trying to be dishonest and I will continue to slap you down.
> ...


This isn't Australia.....Argument fail...


Of course you American haters who are trying to get this nation to become like other nations or somewhere where you want it to be for you who are in a minority, are free to leave it anytime you want to..


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 23, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



That's fine I took care of his failed argument.


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## beagle9 (Dec 23, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


Joe works for the devil, you havn't figured that out yet ? LOL

His job is to get all of us to put down our weapons, while evil exist in the world more than ever now..Makes sense now doesn't it ? I mean wouldn't that be what the devil wants ?

Ever go on a trip with your family into this violent world as we know it, and without protection ? Not a good feeling is it ? Of course the libs can't or won't think like this, because they don't have enough confidence in their weak knee'ed or weak minded selves, along with their weak minded followers to handle themselves in this way, so they figure just get the guns from everybody, and they will be safe, but for now or in the meantime they will be afraid to venture out into the sunlight again (more mental problems to come). Hey and if they would quit moving their ilk into the neighborhoods in which the good guy's live, we wouldn't have to lock down everything there as well either... We need to research people, while keeping our guns loaded until we get a handle on these problems. Of course the libs will say that their isn't no such thing as bad people, but those guns are bad all by themselves....LOL


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 23, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


Nahw Joe's just an misinformed idiot, Cammmpbell is the one that's has a satanic influence.


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## beagle9 (Dec 23, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > How do we keep guns out of the hands of the people you mentioned Joe ? Well for starters, how about all of us stop listening to the bad libs and the idiotic government, so we don't create people like you just mentioned in the first place. That would be the biggest first step to take, and may be the only one needed. All problems solved in America.
> ...


Ever heard of an educated fool ? LOL

The liberal mindset teeters on the brink of going full mental melt down at every turn, where as it starts like when a baby doesn't get it's way (throwing a tantrum), where next the liberal minded single mom steps in to spoil the baby instead of doing the right thing in which is to teach the baby correctly, and then she makes the feds the *babies* father next. Hmmm, maybe this is why so many liberal would be mom''s were getting these abortions, because maybe they are smart enough to realize their mental or sick conditions in life, after growing up in an extremist liberal home and/or public school setting, and so maybe this is what drove them to do such a thing as that as known from those settings ? Maybe this is why these abortion doctors don't see anything wrong with aborting babies like they do, because maybe they were seeing it as being merciful unto the would be born baby instead, and this they figured in order to keep the child from a life of pure hell if being born into a very bad or screwed up situation ? Now I am against aborting babies big time, and babies are always innocent until somehow corrupted later on in life, and this if such is found to be the case afterwards.. 

OK, so how about lets get the feds out of our social lives in this nation quickly, and get them back into where they belong (the business end of things), and this so we can fix all of this madness we have now been subjected to in this nation ourselves ? Right now it is expected that the normal thinking people in this nation *fall* to the mentally messed up peoples ways of thinking (with fed backing), instead of it being in the opposite as it should be. This has got to be corrected somehow..


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## beagle9 (Dec 23, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


Could be, so help him (Joe) if you can, but I bet you can't..


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## JoeB131 (Dec 23, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> This isn't Australia.....Argument fail...
> 
> 
> Of course you American haters who are trying to get this nation to become like other nations or somewhere where you want it to be for you who are in a minority, are free to leave it anytime you want to..



Or we can just fix what's wrong with this country...

look, the NRA gun nuts are only about 4 million people.  Why should we let a few gun nuts who are clearly whacked dictate policy for the rest of us.  

Gun control works in other countries... it could work here.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 23, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



Wow, that was the most incoherent thing I've read on here  yet... 

And that's including most of the crap posted by PoliticsChick...


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## JoeB131 (Dec 23, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> [
> Joe works for the devil, you havn't figured that out yet ? LOL
> 
> His job is to get all of us to put down our weapons, while evil exist in the world more than ever now..Makes sense now doesn't it ? I mean wouldn't that be what the devil wants ?
> ...



I'm sorry, whenever someone talks about "the Devil", all I can think of is this... 







Sure there are bad people.  And there are ill people.  And they are relatively harmless, unless some asshole gives them a military grade weapon with a high-capacity clip.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 23, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > This isn't Australia.....Argument fail...
> ...


Your link was a bunch of misinformation, you cannot build a supportive argument for yyour position using misinformation so try again.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 23, 2012)

You will do what the district tells you to do.  You don't tell the teachers what to do.  You have a poor concept of what your role is in public education.



9thIDdoc said:


> _Step off. You do not decide what teachers must do for their jobs. The taxpayers, parents, and administration, in compliance with state law, make that decision._
> 
> Bite me. As a parent it *my* responsibity to see my children are properly cared for. Murdered is *not *properly cared for.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 23, 2012)

Guns are not going to be banned, end of story.

Teachers will most likely not be armed.

Any security more than what we have now will have to be financed from sales taxes on guns and the industry's supporting technology.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 23, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



My link was fine, guy...  

But let's compare gun deaths in Austrailia using this site. 

Gun Policy Facts and News

Number of Gun Homicides in the US-   9146

Australia -   30

Japan-   11

England and Wales -  41  (58 if you throw in Scotland and N. Ireland)

France -  142

Italy -  246

Germany - 158.  

Sorry, man, guns really are the problem.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 23, 2012)

Let's look at Gun Suicides, amongst G-8 nations and Australia..

Data Comparison from GunPolicy.org Facts

US - 17,002

France - 1548

Germany - 772

Canada - 586

Italy - 477

Australia  - 170

England and Wales - 115

Japan  -  47


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 23, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



actually your pushing misinformation

AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

 Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 23, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Guns are not going to be banned, end of story.
> 
> Teachers will most likely not be armed.
> 
> Any security more than what we have now will have to be financed from sales taxes on guns and the industry's supporting technology.



Make sure you troll everyone, the Cool Kids will love that.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 23, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Let's look at Gun Suicides, amongst G-8 nations and Australia..
> 
> Data Comparison from GunPolicy.org Facts
> 
> ...



Let's look at suicides in general
Big in Japan: Why Japan leads the world in suicide | Gadling.com


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## Papageorgio (Dec 23, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Delete752 said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...



How do you do that. The Sandy Hill shooter to his mothers because he could not obtain them legally. 

I think we have a mental health issue more than a gun issue.


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## SayMyName (Dec 23, 2012)

No. It is not time to arm teachers.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 23, 2012)

Papageorgio said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Delete752 said:
> ...



We don't know if he tried to obtain them legally or not... There was a story that he tried to buy them using his brother's ID, but that seems to have fallen into the realm of misinformation. 

Point is, his mother shouldn't have had weapons of that grade, either.  and what she was thinking keeping them in the house with a disturbed son is mind-boggling.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 23, 2012)

You have no basis for supposing gun bans are going to occur.





JoeB131 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Guns are not going to be banned, end of story.
> ...


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## Delete752 (Dec 23, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



I couldn't agree with you more. If you have a kid who could potentially be a danger to himself and society because of chemical imbalances, don't provide him the means to slaughter dozens. That's just poor parenting, and unfortunately it cost dozens of innocent people their lives. On the other hand, she was within her constitutional right to have those weapons, they were in accordance with state law, all registered etc.. There are millions of legal assault weapons in circulation across America and commandeering every single one of them would be a nearly impossible task and there are some good purposes that having assault weapons like that serve. If you don't believe me, ask everybody who owned a storefront in LA during the Rodney King riots, the ones that owned assault rifles didn't have to worry about those animals running in their stores and taking whatever they wanted.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 23, 2012)

the GOP establishment is running away from the NRA faster than a Televangelist from a hooker who goes public....




JakeStarkey said:


> You have no basis for supposing gun bans are going to occur.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Zoom (Dec 23, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



Didn't you lose a bet?


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## JoeB131 (Dec 23, 2012)

Delete752 said:


> I couldn't agree with you more. If you have a kid who could potentially be a danger to himself and society because of chemical imbalances, don't provide him the means to slaughter dozens. That's just poor parenting, and unfortunately it cost dozens of innocent people their lives. On the other hand, she was within her constitutional right to have those weapons, they were in accordance with state law, all registered etc.. There are millions of legal assault weapons in circulation across America and commandeering every single one of them would be a nearly impossible task and there are some good purposes that having assault weapons like that serve. If you don't believe me, ask everybody who owned a storefront in LA during the Rodney King riots, the ones that owned assault rifles didn't have to worry about those animals running in their stores and taking whatever they wanted.



So you are saying stuff in a store is worth killing another human being over? 

The point is, there's no good reason for civilians to own that sort of weapon, and if they were outlawed, I suspect most of them would comply with the law and turn them in.  Or we could just make the manufacture and sale of ammunition for them illegal, and render the entire point moot.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 23, 2012)

Zoom said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Was Reb one of the welchers who promised to go away and didn't?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 23, 2012)

Zoom said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



No because no bet was accepted.
Still here and will remain here because it pains liberals so fucking much.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 23, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Zoom said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



The bet was not accepted so there was no bet made.


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## tjvh (Dec 23, 2012)

Zoom said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Translation: bigreb is making me look like a *fool*, it's time to make a calculated deflection.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 23, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom said:
> ...



Oh, if that's what you want to tell yourself. 

I'm kind of sorry some of the Cons with integrity who made such bets did leave.  I liked Conservative.  Liability not so much (I had him on ignore), but I found his concession on Nov. 6th  to be kind of gracious.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 23, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



What ever dude


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## Delete752 (Dec 23, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Delete752 said:
> 
> 
> > I couldn't agree with you more. If you have a kid who could potentially be a danger to himself and society because of chemical imbalances, don't provide him the means to slaughter dozens. That's just poor parenting, and unfortunately it cost dozens of innocent people their lives. On the other hand, she was within her constitutional right to have those weapons, they were in accordance with state law, all registered etc.. There are millions of legal assault weapons in circulation across America and commandeering every single one of them would be a nearly impossible task and there are some good purposes that having assault weapons like that serve. If you don't believe me, ask everybody who owned a storefront in LA during the Rodney King riots, the ones that owned assault rifles didn't have to worry about those animals running in their stores and taking whatever they wanted.
> ...



Locke emphasizes Life Liberty and Property. Therefore I like to follow suit. Once somebody sees one of his homeboys gunned down while trying to steal a flat screen out of my store, see if anybody else tries it. Also, widespread ownership of weapons deterred a Japanese invasion of the US mainland during WWII. Something to the effect of "guns behind every blade of grass" or something like that was used to describe the number of guns in the US by Japan's military officials. It's a polarized topic no doubt, I'm just glad I've found somebody on the left wing that can properly argue about gun control without coming off as a condescending idiot who uses insults in order to cover their lack of knowledge on the topic.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 23, 2012)

tjvh said:


> Zoom said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


thats why an old thread that was made over a year ago was brought back to  life from a poster who had not even posted in that thread. Liberals want me gone from here. For that reason and the fact the bet was not accepted I shall remain here.


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## Unkotare (Dec 23, 2012)

Delete752 said:


> Also, widespread ownership of weapons deterred a Japanese invasion of the US mainland during WWII. Something to the effect of "guns behind every blade of grass" or something like that was used to describe the number of guns in the US by Japan's military officials.




That is a commonly misattributed quote. It was the US Navy and the Pacific Ocean that made any such invasion exceedingly unlikely.


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## beagle9 (Dec 23, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > This isn't Australia.....Argument fail...
> ...


We have gun control already, it's just that we have a super increase in the physco's in this nation now, and why is this ya reckon ? I know why, it's because of radical extremist liberal theology is why, and then the application of this theology with backing from the federal government upon us, whom the feds have been infiltrated by these radicals over the years, where as when it fails, then we are the ones who are supposed to accomodate it or are forced to adjust to it (loss of our freedoms and such), instead of us putting it back into the mental box in which it came out of...


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## beagle9 (Dec 23, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> Delete752 said:
> 
> 
> > Also, widespread ownership of weapons deterred a Japanese invasion of the US mainland during WWII. Something to the effect of "guns behind every blade of grass" or something like that was used to describe the number of guns in the US by Japan's military officials.
> ...


Sticking to the point for a sec, do you think that invasions of other nations are gone forever in the world ? Now if China for example were to make it through our technology field, and first lines of defense, and they were actually able to land an invasion force on us, then what would we do ? Because if the libs had there way, we would be fighting them off with butter knives instead of guns.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Dec 23, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> tjvh said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom said:
> ...



I have old ass threads consistantly brought back to life.

Trolls will be trolls and they're easy to spot when that happens.


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## Unkotare (Dec 23, 2012)

Delete752 said:


> It's a polarized topic no doubt, I'm just glad I've found somebody on the left wing that can properly argue about gun control without coming off as a condescending idiot who uses insults in order to cover their lack of knowledge on the topic.





I notice you like to try and reserve that approach just for yourself.


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## Unkotare (Dec 23, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Delete752 said:
> ...





We would very likely wipe out their entire invading force and eliminate their ability to engage in large scale military operations for a generation or more. All this before it would ever get to the point where private citizens had to take to the streets to protect ourselves (which we would surely be willing and eager to do).


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## beagle9 (Dec 23, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Let's look at Gun Suicides, amongst G-8 nations and Australia..
> 
> Data Comparison from GunPolicy.org Facts
> 
> ...


Beware America, of the globalist like Joe whom wants to sink America with the world, in order to destroy her with the means of the world used as his weapon of choice.. Hang on with every bit of Americanism you have left, and go after the rats in this nation quickly..


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## Delete752 (Dec 23, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> Delete752 said:
> 
> 
> > Also, widespread ownership of weapons deterred a Japanese invasion of the US mainland during WWII. Something to the effect of "guns behind every blade of grass" or something like that was used to describe the number of guns in the US by Japan's military officials.
> ...


 
"We did indeed know much about your preparedness. We knew that probably every second home in your country contained firearms. We knew that your country actually had state championships for private citizens shooting military rifles. We were not fools to set foot in such quicksand." - Isoroku Yamamoto, Commander-in-Chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy during World War II.

So what you're saying is somebody who controlled an entire fleet of naval ships and at one point was one of the greatest military leaders in the world, is wrong? Guess you're going to have to try again.


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## beagle9 (Dec 23, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


What made America so strong to begin with, was having all options available and on the table in case of such an invasion being somewhat successful or even highly sucessful against us. We don't go down without a fight, and if we fight we as Americans have the means always available to us in order to get the job done. If the libs have their way, we will be rendered useless in society and as a nation useless in the world..


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## Delete752 (Dec 23, 2012)

Unkotare. Why don't you just go down my CP and try and challenge me on everything single one of my recent posts? Oh wait, you already have, and failed every time.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 23, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


You can't fight if you aren't prepared you can't prepare if those tools are taken away.


----------



## Unkotare (Dec 23, 2012)

Delete752 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Delete752 said:
> ...




That was not the quote in question. Does your ADD make it hard to concentrate?


----------



## Unkotare (Dec 23, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...




Don't look at me, I didn't vote for obama.


----------



## Unkotare (Dec 23, 2012)

Delete752 said:


> Unkotare. Why don't you just go down my CP and try and challenge me on everything single one of my recent posts? Oh wait, you already have, and failed every time.



Aw, do you need a tissue to wipe away the tears, liittle bitch?


----------



## Unkotare (Dec 23, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...




Don't let this recent election get you down; we'll have more. We will have a real leader again sooner or later.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 23, 2012)

You have no basis for supposing gun bans are going to occur.



JoeB131 said:


> the GOP establishment is running away from the NRA faster than a Televangelist from a hooker who goes public....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 23, 2012)

Delete752 said:


> [
> 
> Locke emphasizes Life Liberty and Property. Therefore I like to follow suit. Once somebody sees one of his homeboys gunned down while trying to steal a flat screen out of my store, see if anybody else tries it. Also, widespread ownership of weapons deterred a Japanese invasion of the US mainland during WWII. Something to the effect of "guns behind every blade of grass" or something like that was used to describe the number of guns in the US by Japan's military officials. It's a polarized topic no doubt, I'm just glad I've found somebody on the left wing that can properly argue about gun control without coming off as a condescending idiot who uses insults in order to cover their lack of knowledge on the topic.



The story that Admiral Yamamoto Isokuru stated that he wouldn't invade the American mainland because we had so many guns is a myth.  He never said it.  Nor was it the Japanese Empire's design to invade the CONUS.  



> How do we know? We contacted Donald M. Goldstein, sometimes called "the dean of Pearl Harbor historians." Among his many books are "The Pearl Harbor Papers: Inside the Japanese Plans" (1993) and the best-selling "At Dawn We Slept: The Untold Story of Pearl Harbor" (1981). He is a professor at the Graduate School of Public and International Affairs at the University of Pittsburgh. He told us the supposed Yamamoto quote is "bogus."
> 
> In an exchange of e-mails he said:
> 
> Prof. Goldstein: I have never seen it in writing. It has been attributed to the Prange files [the files of the late Gordon W. Prange, chief historian on the staff of Gen. Douglas MacArthur] but no one had ever seen it or cited it from where they got it. Some people say that it came from our work but I never said it.  As of today it is bogus until someone can cite when and where.



FactCheck.org : Misquoting Yamamoto

So much for lack of knowledge. You repeat a gun-nutter myth like it's truth.  

Now, besides your racist comment about "homeboys", frankly, I don't think a widescreen is worth killing a person over.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 23, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Let's look at Gun Suicides, amongst G-8 nations and Australia..
> ...



So you are trying to claim suicide is a great american value and we should make it easy for kids to do? 

As I've said, you've never known a person who had to bury a teenager who killed himself with a gun they bought to protect the house.  Otherwise, you wouldn't say such silly horseshit.


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## Delete752 (Dec 23, 2012)

End of the the line, I'm going to continue to carry a gun to protect my family and I, that's all that matters to me, that I feel secure.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 23, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> Delete752 said:
> 
> 
> > Also, widespread ownership of weapons deterred a Japanese invasion of the US mainland during WWII. Something to the effect of "guns behind every blade of grass" or something like that was used to describe the number of guns in the US by Japan's military officials.
> ...



Nor was that really their goal, anyway.  

The Japanese strategy was to win a decisive naval victory, seize key Islands in the Pacific, and then make it difficult for the Americans to retake them, until they got a treaty that was favorable. 

Pretty much the same strategy they used in their 1905 war with Russia.  

Sneak attack.  Drawn out War. Decisive Naval Battle. Negotiated Peace.  

However, they underestimated American rage over Pearl Harbor.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 23, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> We have gun control already, it's just that we have a super increase in the physco's in this nation now, and why is this ya reckon ? I know why, it's because of radical extremist liberal theology is why, and then the application of this theology with backing from the federal government upon us, whom the feds have been infiltrated by these radicals over the years, where as when it fails, then we are the ones who are supposed to accomodate it or are forced to adjust to it (loss of our freedoms and such), instead of us putting it back into the mental box in which it came out of...



Wow, I think that you may be convincing people about the increase in "physco's", but not really... 

We probably don't have any more mentally ill people in this country than we've had in any time in our history, other than more people are being diagnosed now.  Before that, we just called our strange relatives "odd" or "eccentric" and we had the good sense to not let them have military grade weapons.


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## Aristotle (Dec 23, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



There is a difference between well equipped and prepared. More than likely teachers will not have use their weapon which in turn will lower their guard


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## Aristotle (Dec 23, 2012)

So far proponents who argue arming teachers do not have a valid argument.

I am still waiting on the answer to the following 

"In a financially cash strapped school district that is furloughing teachers and/or laying them off, how does the school district find the funds to supply teachers with side arms, vests, training? 

You guys understand that a school district isn't one school right? I am talking about dozens with over a hundred plus teachers.  There is no way every single teacher would be armed


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## KissMy (Dec 23, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> So far proponents who argue arming teachers do not have a valid argument.
> 
> I am still waiting on the answer to the following
> 
> ...



It's cheaper than a metal detector or high tech security system or cop/armed security. Many teachers already are armed & have a CCW permit. All we need to do is get out of their way & let them defend themselves & the children. Stop preventing self defense.


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 23, 2012)

_Now, here's the thing. 

All these folks were batshit crazy. They were still able to get guns. _
__________________

No shit, Sherlock. And if you ever come up with a usefull idea on how to keep that from happening we would love to hear it but all this pissing and moaning because the world is the way it is accomplishs nothing and becomes irritating very quickly.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 23, 2012)

9thIDdoc said:


> _Now, here's the thing.
> 
> All these folks were batshit crazy. They were still able to get guns. _
> __________________
> ...



I'm also curious to know how the left plans to stop crazy people from making their own firearms if and when they succeed in making professionally-crafted firearms unavailable (which ain't gonna happen).

We've seen case after case of crazy person who has nevertheless had the mental wherewithal to plan out their attack, AND to make explosives and place them (Columbine, anyone?  Oklahoma City?).  It's not actually harder to make a homemade firearm than it is to make a homemade bomb.  In fact, I think the materials are actually easier to procure than those for explosives.


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 23, 2012)

_Banning private gun ownership will not turn the country upside down. In fact, when Australia banned guns a couple decades ago, most people complied with the new laws and turned in their guns_

I cannot immagine a simpler or more certain way to assure the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent Americans. Congats., you top the school shooters by several orders of magnitude.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 23, 2012)

9thIDdoc said:


> _Banning private gun ownership will not turn the country upside down. In fact, when Australia banned guns a couple decades ago, most people complied with the new laws and turned in their guns_
> 
> I cannot immagine a simpler or more certain way to assure the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent Americans. Congats., you top the school shooters by several orders of magnitude.



One wonders why whichever idiot that was you quoted doesn't see the fatal flaw in his own words:  "MOST people complied with the new laws".  Yes, well, we already have MOST people complying with the CURRENT laws about not shooting up schools full of children.  The problem would be that pesky little minority that ignores laws against murder, and probably aren't going to be all that impressed with NEW laws about owning guns.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 23, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > _Banning private gun ownership will not turn the country upside down. In fact, when Australia banned guns a couple decades ago, most people complied with the new laws and turned in their guns_
> ...



Well what you aren't considering Cecile is that banning most guns gets them off the streets.  After all look how well that has worked with pot, heroin, cocaine, etc. . . .


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 23, 2012)

"In a financially cash strapped school district that is furloughing teachers and/or laying them off, how does the school district find the funds to supply teachers with side arms, vests, training? 

Again, you do it by budgeting sceurity first. This is not a complicated concept but, if necessary, have one of _special _teachers explain it to you. 
Also again, _"We can't afford it!" _is neither true nor an acceptable response.


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## Aristotle (Dec 23, 2012)

KissMy said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > So far proponents who argue arming teachers do not have a valid argument.
> ...



Wait you said "many teachers" so which teachers to which you refer? I live in the state of California one of the most gun strict states, and I know for a fact many teachers from kindergarten to college are not certified in concealed or exposed firearms permit.

Let me give you the actual breakdown of cost (the following is an example):


Firearms training cost (cost may vary depending on who you contract out to):


Standard Courses *$200 *per person per training day 
Handgun I & II, Tactical Rifle, Hunting Rifle, Defensive Shotgun, Defensive Handgun Skills Maintenance (

Advanced/Special Courses $225 per person per training day 
Handgun CQB, Advanced Handgun, Vehicle Based Incidents, Advanced Tactical Rifle, Precision Rifle I & II  

Seminars $100 per person 
Backup Gun/Concealed Carry Seminar, Handgun Low Light Seminar  
* $100 deposit is required to hold space in a course ($50 for seminars). 
*costs based on a minimum of 8 attendees. Fewer attendees can be accomodated at an increased cost per person. 

See reference: Course Costs - Practical Firearms Training

Bulletproof vest:



Cost $195-450 (This is the cheapest type vest I found on retailer's website)

Firearms:

Sigsauer P250 9mm



Cost: $317-400 (depending on retailer)

How much does it cost to hire police officers for every single school in the city of Sacramento?

According to the Sacramento Bee newspaper since sacramento has approximately 763 public schools (majority lacking police officer based resources) the cost would be anywhere from $110,000, to $140,000 per year which amounts to an annual cost of $83-106 million which is significantly more than the general annual budget. Of course, in the Los Angeles Unified School District since it has its own police department, their cost is also calculated along the budget of the LAUSD. The annual LAUSD budget in 2009-2010 was 7.3 billion now of course this is an old report. The budget is currently sitting around 6.1-6.3 billion. 

See reference: LAUSD board approves $6.3B budget; after-school program saved - LA Daily News

Due to the budget crisis within the LAUSD system the district had to shorten the school year (about 175 days per school year calendar). This is how bad it is

"To help balance LAUSD's $6 billion budget, the district's labor

unions had agreed to accept 10 unpaid furlough days, half of them instructional days."

Also

"Since the financial crisis hit in 2008, California has been deferring some of the money due the state's public schools, forcing them to borrow money to cover their own costs.

This year, for instance, LAUSD should have received $6,718 per student, but got only $5,221."

See Reference: LAUSD Furlough Days: With Prop 30 Money, Chief Seeks To Rescind Furloughs, Restore School Calendar

So as you can see depending on certain states and their budgeting along with how much the schools can and cannot afford it is real difficult to discuss arming teachers when states like California which mind you has the eighth largest economy in the world (New York is the second largest), many districts are struggling to not only prolong school years, but also save after school programs (which are known to keep kids active and away from gang influence) along with maintaining teacher salaries.

I agree with Mick North when he said:

"*The idea that because the problem is guns, the answer is guns, is simply ridiculous*"

*"I just do not understand the logic of that. If they arm the teachers does that mean they also have to provide the teachers with body armor?" he asked, seemingly rhetorically. "I understand the intruder on Friday had body armor to protect himself from being shot at. Do the children have to have body armor? How far do we have to go?"*

See Reference: Mick North on arming teachers: "The idea that because the problem is guns, the answer is guns, is simply ridiculous" &#8211; Piers Morgan - CNN.com Blogs


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## Aristotle (Dec 23, 2012)

9thIDdoc said:


> "In a financially cash strapped school district that is furloughing teachers and/or laying them off, how does the school district find the funds to supply teachers with side arms, vests, training?
> 
> Again, you do it by budgeting sceurity first. This is not a complicated concept but, if necessary, have one of _special _teachers explain it to you.
> Also again, _"We can't afford it!" _is neither true nor an acceptable response.



You have to talk budget because in order to supply equipment to schools you have to know how much it cost and whether it will effect other programs that also cost to, I don't understand why you cannot get this? Doc, its a good thing you don't work for the school district because you would be willing to drive the school district to the ground financially all because of one incident.


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## Aristotle (Dec 23, 2012)

Let's talk about California Concealed Weapons permit (See the following)

What is a California CCW?
A license to carry a concealed firearm on your person in public subject to restrictions placed upon it by statute and the issuing department. The law allows a person to keep a firearm in their home and at their place of business without a permit. *No CCW is required to keep a firearm in the home or place of employment if it is your business. *

What are the requirements for a California CCW?
1. Legal resident 
2. At least 21 years of age 
3. Good Cause 
4. Good Moral Character 

*What is Good Cause?**You must articulate a situation or circumstances whereby the department can determine you have a need, not a desire, to carry a concealed firearm*. There is an Attorney General Opinion which defines Good Cause. See Attorney General Opinion. 
How easy is it to get a Californian Concealed Weapon Permit?
This varies from county to county and from city to city. Rural counties are normally easier than suburban counties. Good Cause is the variable that applicants must deal with. Statute and case law require departments to make an individual evaluation of each applicant&#8217;s Good Cause. Some departments list on their policies certain professions and occupations that under some circumstances will satisfy their Good Cause requirements. 

See Reference: Concealed Firearm Carry Permit in California: Information Database

What is a good cause to carry a concealed weapon? Let's ask the California Attorney General!

The (1977) Attorney General's Opinion on Good Causes
OPINION NO. CR. 77/30 I.L. 'the issuing authority must determine whether the threat to the applicant (or other causal situation) is as real as the applicant asserts (e.g., is there a clear and present danger to the applicant, his spouse, his family or his employees)? Finally, if the danger is manifest, the authority should determine whether that danger cannot be significantly alleviated by alternative means of security and whether in fact can be lawfully mitigated by the applicant's obtaining a concealed weapon license.' 

This decision was rendered By Attorney General Evelle J. Younger, August 23, 1977. 

See Reference: Concealed Firearm Carry in California: Information Database


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## beagle9 (Dec 23, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Delete752 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...


It matters not, only that what we are talking about in keeping America strong in every way possible matters most, where as it is the most important thinking here. It's all just common sense actually, something that the left just can't figure out as of yet, otherwise how to get around that nasty little gift that many Americans still have.


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## beagle9 (Dec 23, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > We have gun control already, it's just that we have a super increase in the physco's in this nation now, and why is this ya reckon ? I know why, it's because of radical extremist liberal theology is why, and then the application of this theology with backing from the federal government upon us, whom the feds have been infiltrated by these radicals over the years, where as when it fails, then we are the ones who are supposed to accomodate it or are forced to adjust to it (loss of our freedoms and such), instead of us putting it back into the mental box in which it came out of...
> ...


One knows his family and friends yes (everything about them mostly), but when we have strange and odd people spreading out like wildfires all over this nation, and worse they are doing it with the feds or local governments help, then it's so wonder upon what types of characters we now have living all around us anymore in this nation, in which we cannot or better not turn our backs on for sure anylonger.

The enemies of America are in the gate now, and this has been proven by 9-11, also with this Hasan cat (Ft. Hood Massacre) etc.

Then there are the ones who are stressed beyond belief now, because their jobs are going away quicker than a silver bullet flies, and they are having a super tough time handling that situation as well.

Then there are the single mom households in which houses the biggest threats anymore maybe, because they are trying to work and raise a family, where hollywood & the internet is more of a babysitter to their children than anyone else is these days, and we know what hollywood & the internet is filling these unsupervised kids heads with now.

Then there is the greedy employers who are corrupt, liars and "hypocryts" whom say one thing, but then do another, especially when dealing with money, because they want most of it, while throwing crumbs to their workers. They are breeding huge problems as well in America among the good citizens who aren't bad now, but might turn bad soon if not careful.

We are a sick nation in many ways, but taking the guns now from the good people in such a sick nation, just leaves the good people who are dealing with it all as best they can "DEFENSELESS" is what that idea ultimately leads too. Hec a good citizen might be able to stop a bad situation once it gets started, because we know that the cops usually arrive after the fires have been lit, only to save the chimney when all is said and done, so I don't know about you all, but I would hope that there is a good citizen around, and with some form of protection if I get into a situation as an unarmed citizen maybe. At least then I may have a chance to be around to talk about it when the cops finally get there. Infact has anyone called the cops lately about anything ? Check their response time when you do, it may just shock you. It seems they are getting slower and slower as their pay gets higher and higher.

Until this nation finally begins to get well, then the level headed good people had best keep their guns I think, and make their property what ever acreage they have as prime American realestate in the world (raise their American flags), and it is not to be tresspassed upon either. Your property is your only refuge left in this nation against the storms that are raging, and once that is gone for Americans in America, then it's over finally.


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## beagle9 (Dec 23, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Let's talk about California Concealed Weapons permit (See the following)
> 
> What is a California CCW?
> A license to carry a concealed firearm on your person in public subject to restrictions placed upon it by statute and the issuing department. The law allows a person to keep a firearm in their home and at their place of business without a permit. *No CCW is required to keep a firearm in the home or place of employment if it is your business. *
> ...


I know 26 good causes, what do you think ?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 23, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...





OK enough is enough
How many teachers have a CCW and their own firearm? I am willing to be at least 5 teachers in every school has a CCW and a firearm. Teachers who have a CCW and their own firearm will be allowed to carry to school.
I don't know of one CCW carrier who has not had to take a require course in firearms training.
End of how much will it cost back and forth BS.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 23, 2012)

Who is saying you can't?



Delete752 said:


> End of the the line, I'm going to continue to carry a gun to protect my family and I, that's all that matters to me, that I feel secure.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 23, 2012)

No one in power or with authority is talking about banning private gun ownership.

The left crazees yelling, "yes", it has to happen, and the right crazees who simply screaming -- both groups have their collective heads shoved up their collective butts.

The sane portion of America is laughing its head off.


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 23, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> No one in power or with authority is talking about banning private gun ownership.
> 
> The left crazees yelling, "yes", it has to happen, and the right crazees who simply screaming -- both groups have their collective heads shoved up their collective butts.
> 
> The sane portion of America is laughing its head off.



How would you know?


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 23, 2012)

I carry conceal.  I imagine you do.  No one is talking about taking our guns in power. What gun ban are you worried about?

Sane America is laughing at the anti-gun and the gun crazies.

Read the blogs, the newspapers online, and google it.


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## beagle9 (Dec 23, 2012)

Jake just an observation, how about when you reply to someone, what about doing it correctly by putting their words in which you are replying to at the top, and then your response at the bottom or underneath theirs per your reply.. Makes sense doesn't it ? Like I said just an observation, but I know the button will have now been pushed, so I don't expect much in return. Just sayin...LOL


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 23, 2012)

beagle9, you have the right to your opinion.


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## Unkotare (Dec 23, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> How many teachers have a CCW and their own firearm? I am willing to be at least 5 teachers in every school has a CCW and a firearm.




That doesn't seem like a very wise bet.


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## Unkotare (Dec 23, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Jake just an observation, how about when you reply to someone, what about doing it correctly by putting their words in which you are replying to at the top, and then your response at the bottom or underneath theirs per your reply.. Makes sense doesn't it ? Like I said just an observation, but I know the button will have now been pushed, so I don't expect much in return. Just sayin...LOL





You have to take Fakey's OCD and other mental health issues into consideration when trying to explain his deviant behavior.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 23, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > How many teachers have a CCW and their own firearm? I am willing to be at least 5 teachers in every school has a CCW and a firearm.
> ...



It's just a figure of speech.


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## Unkotare (Dec 23, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 23, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> I carry conceal.  I imagine you do.  No one is talking about taking our guns in power. What gun ban are you worried about?
> 
> Sane America is laughing at the anti-gun and the gun crazies.
> 
> Read the blogs, the newspapers online, and google it.



Jake the fucking Liar strikes again.

You dont fool anyone, Twinky. The gun grabbing whores like you are trying to accomplish by degree what you cant accomplish by an honest fucking vote.

Go tohell.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 23, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Jake just an observation, how about when you reply to someone, what about doing it correctly by putting their words in which you are replying to at the top, and then your response at the bottom or underneath theirs per your reply.. Makes sense doesn't it ? Like I said just an observation, but I know the button will have now been pushed, so I don't expect much in return. Just sayin...LOL



Jake is a troll and not  a person who wants to discuss anything at all.


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## Aristotle (Dec 23, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > KissMy said:
> ...



Ok which teachers?

Kindergarten teachers?

High School teachers?

College Professors?

I personally have friends who substitute teach. Many of them don't even own a weapon and although majority of my friends that do teach are female, they rely more on law enforcement than anything else. The point is because Californbia is so strict on gun ownership I can almost gurantee if a kindergarten teacher used a firearm in a classroom killing someone who had a knife going for a kid the media would eat this up and rest assured many parents would question why a teacher would pop off in a classroom full of kids. That is my point!


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## Aristotle (Dec 23, 2012)

Here is my question to you guys because I am confused.

When you guys say "teachers should be allowed to carry" which teachers are you referring to?

Are we talking about kindergarten teachers?

High School teachers?

College Professors?


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 23, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Here is my question to you guys because I am confused.
> 
> When you guys say "teachers should be allowed to carry" which teachers are you referring to?
> 
> ...



Anyone who is:

1. Qualified and already issued a concealed carry permit.

2. Voluntarily screened for mental problems and/or criminal background.

3. Only those who *want* to do it.

4. And the gun would be concealed so dont worry about pissing your pants at the sight aof a fucking gun.

Why cant you stupid shit understand this simple approach to stopping this shit? 

The Isrealis and Thais are ALREADY DOING IT WITH GREAT SUCCESS.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 23, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Here is my question to you guys because I am confused.
> 
> When you guys say "teachers should be allowed to carry" which teachers are you referring to?
> 
> ...



Why are you confused? What does the grade a teacher teaches in matter?
If a teacher has a CCW and a firearm they should be allowed to carry at school.
At least here in North Carolina before you can have a CCW you must take a firearms training course.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 23, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > Here is my question to you guys because I am confused.
> ...



I think we both know 'Aristotle' is just blowing smoke, like most of the libtards do when they start to think they may be losing the discussion.


----------



## Unkotare (Dec 23, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Here is my question to you guys because I am confused.
> 
> When you guys say "teachers should be allowed to carry" which teachers are you referring to?





This one!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3rDokiFU9w]The Substitute Movie - YouTube[/ame]


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## Aristotle (Dec 23, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > Here is my question to you guys because I am confused.
> ...



So what if the school they teach has armed personnel? Do we just do away with the trust of armed personnel to save us from an attacker?


----------



## Aristotle (Dec 23, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > Here is my question to you guys because I am confused.
> ...



Because there are professors who have political views regarding firearms and in light of the recent tragedy (and in this debate for that matter) many of you keep saying teachers, teachers, teachers. I don't envision my neuropsychology advisor who is 62 years old packing a .45 ACP S&W.


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## Aristotle (Dec 23, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > Here is my question to you guys because I am confused.
> ...



Jim we are having a conversation why are you hurling insults? I haven't said anything negative about your views. I have clearly stated a question which I needed clarification so why the hurling of insults?

By the way we are a bigger country than Israel and Israel is at war with a neighboring state so using them as an example is moot.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 23, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...





> Because there are professors who have political views regarding firearms and in light of the recent tragedy


Stop talking in code and speak plainly
What difference does it make if they are a CCW holder?



> I don't envision my neuropsychology advisor who is 62 years old packing a .45 ACP S&W.


If they have a CCW what would it matter?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 23, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...



The more the merrier


----------



## Aristotle (Dec 23, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



I am not going to sit here and assume each and every teacher carries a concealed weapons permit. The point is in an institution of higher learning like UCLA for example with campus police patrolling the interior and perimeter it is not necessary for a teacher to carry a concealed weapon to class regardless whether they're qualified or not. I don't care if they have a permit its a pointless thing for any teacher to come to school with a concealed gun.

Dude have you seen a college lecture class?

There can be over a hundred students in one class. What can a teacher do in the middle of a lecture while their back is turned and someone busts in with a Bushmaster AR-15? Nothing. The teacher won't do a barrel roll like their in the movie lethal weapon. Most likely  they will end up apart of the fatalities. The point in all of this is answering violence with violence is not a viable solution THAT IS MY POINT


----------



## chesswarsnow (Dec 23, 2012)

Sorry bout that,

1. I covered this years ago, no one listened.
2. I doubt people are ready to listen now.
3. There should be a safe room near the entrance of *ALL* schools, hidden from view, more or less a secret viewing room of whats going on in the whole school through video camera feeds.
4. There should be a intercom system that rings into this room, from each class room and all rooms,  there should also be an alarm system in the halls for students to pull when the need arises.
5. It should be an *all volunteer* service.
6. Retired ex-vets would be perfect.
6. (a) At all times there should be a secret agent teacher *armed*, who would be a (fall back position) in case of the *ex-vets* goes bonkers.
7. *PROBLEM SOLVED*

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


----------



## 9thIDdoc (Dec 23, 2012)




----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 23, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...





> I am not going to sit here and assume each and every teacher carries a concealed weapons permit.


No one has said that but you will more than gladly make an assumption about your neuropsychology advisor



> Dude have you seen a college lecture class?


Yes but it has been a few years. and still is irrelevant.



> The point is in an institution of higher learning like UCLA for example with campus police patrolling the interior and perimeter it is not necessary for a teacher to carry a concealed weapon to class regardless whether they're qualified or not. I don't care if they have a permit its a pointless thing for any teacher to come to school with a concealed gun.


Virginia tech have campus police and your point?
Let's cut to the meat what is your experience with firearms?


----------



## chesswarsnow (Dec 23, 2012)

Sorry bout that,


1. Having a cop just stand around is stupid.
2. The only way this would be effective is if its covert.
3. The crazies will just sneak up on cop  and shoot him first.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 23, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Here is my question to you guys because I am confused.
> 
> When you guys say "teachers should be allowed to carry" which teachers are you referring to?
> 
> ...



Did you actually bother to read any of the 119 pages in this thread before posting?  If not, then your confusion is not our problem, because the answer has been discussed extensively.

If you read it and are still confused, your confusion REALLY isn't our problem.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 23, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...



Some particular reason it has to be an either-or, mutually exclusive deal for you?


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 23, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...



No, it didn't "need clarification".  We've been "clarifying" it for 120 pages or so.  The fact that you either 1) didn't bother to read those pages before spouting off, 2) read them but didn't bother comprehending and internalizing the messages there, or 3) were too thick to understand what you read does not obligate anyone else to treat with any seriousness and respect you coming in and blankly saying, "So . . . what was your position again?"

Furthermore, I can't see what difference being a bigger country than Israel has to do with letting teachers who are permitted to carry do so, and I also don't see how Israel being at war makes them "moot" as an example.  It doesn't really matter to me WHAT the motivations are of the crazed gunman attacking our children.


----------



## Aristotle (Dec 24, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



Let me spell it out for you. The reason why Israel is a horrible example is because the current state of Israel is about protection of its citizens, from inside and out. They are in constant danger of either being invaded, or infiltrated. We don't have that problem. Our concerns are the current wars, fiscal cliffs, and the internal strife we like to call "war on drugs."

The idea that teachers in Israel packing guns does nothing for the advancement of the proponents argument that teachers arming themselves as being a logical solution to school violence.


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## Aristotle (Dec 24, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



Sigh*


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## Aristotle (Dec 24, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > Here is my question to you guys because I am confused.
> ...



Actually no it hasn't. In fact this whole thread/discussion is based off what happen to kindergarteners. I've made the argument about professors carrying concealed weapons on college campuses especially college campuses with an actual police substation on the premises. I argued that college professors have an unecessary duty to conceal a firearms in a class especially when lecture halls consist of hundreds of students. It is nearly impossible to be ready for a spontaneous attack....I mean case in point look at the Virginia Tech shooting.


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## Aristotle (Dec 24, 2012)

chesswarsnow said:


> Sorry bout that,
> 
> 1. I covered this years ago, no one listened.
> 2. I doubt people are ready to listen now.
> ...




I like all except 7....For one I highly doubt an ex vet would volunteer their time (and life) for free


----------



## Aristotle (Dec 24, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



My experience with firearms?

I have a S&W Sigma SVE 9mm (stainless steel). I also have a glock 20.

In 2003 when I was 21 I used to work for Brinks part time. I had my exposed firearms permit. That was a year of paranoia. Although you are prepared most days often times people do not expect the unexpected. That is the case with Virginia Tech. Arming teachers will not prevent unexpected massacres. Beefing up security and police presence should be the deturing element. A physics professor cannot worry about both explaining the law of thermodynamics and potential school shootings


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 24, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



He is just posturing for a rhetorical point that only a libtard would agree with.

Seriously, what does this phrase "do away with the trust of armed personnel " actually mean? It reads like gibberish.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 24, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > Here is my question to you guys because I am confused.
> ...



Lol, but you know that wold be alawyers dream. I saw about 8 lawsuits in that one clip, lololol.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 24, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...



Would you mind translating that question into comprehensible English?

I seriously do not understand your question, though I doubt the sincerety behind it anyway


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 24, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...



Well, I am saying something negative about your question; it makes no sense, and if you would actually READ what people are posting you would find the answer to your question, I think, since I iam not sure what it was exactly that you asked.



Aristotle said:


> By the way we are a bigger country than Israel and Israel is at war with a neighboring state so using them as an example is moot.



The only relevance that has is in that the Isrealis have had to adopt these methods decades ago. The FACT that is relevant here is that their methods actually work, unlike passing more laws that the murderers will just ignore anyway.

Because the purpose of these gun grabbing laws is not to protect our schools. The massacres of these little kids is just a crisis to exploit to pass more gun restrictions. That is why the libtards try to shout down any suggestions that would make the schools more safe, becauuse they dont want these schools actually safe at all. They need these kinds of shootings to justify stripping Americans of their guns and the right to self-defense.

But you probably know that already, and are just another ass hole trying to obfuscate the only real answer that has been tried and true in two other countries.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 24, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...



Arming teachers is the BEST thing to stop 'unexpected massacres', as  1. all massacres are unexpected from the victims point of view anyway, and 2. actual real world events show that in fact arming the intended targets is the most effective solution as it is more of a deterent since the murderer does not know who is armed, and it is far more likely that an armed teacher would be near the perp when the shooting starts than aplainly visible armed guard, and thus the armed teacher could save MORE LIVES.



Aristotle said:


> A physics professor cannot worry about both explaining the law of thermodynamics and potential school shootings



Sure he can; and if he cant then he shouldnt be concealed carrying ANYWHERE.

Funny, you libtards must think that the Thais and Isrealis are super men or something since they have been doing this stuff for decades now, though it is apparently impossible to even conceive for libtards.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 24, 2012)

9thIDdoc said:


> _Now, here's the thing.
> 
> All these folks were batshit crazy. They were still able to get guns. _
> __________________
> ...



There are simple ways. 

1) Have a RIGOROUS background check for new guns sales.  That means when Joker Holmes goes to buy a gun, we call his school, we call his mommy if he's under 30, we call his job, and when all of them tell us he's batshit crazy and ought to be medicated, not armed, we don't sell him a gun.  

2) Everyone who currently has a gun needs to get licensed to have it, and the license should be as rigourous as getting one for an automobile.  I'd go one further.  I have a DL for my car, but not one for driving an 18 wheeler.  You want a more powerful weapon, you have to a) show cause why you need that much firepower (Penis compensation doesn't count) and b) Have to undergo rigourous training. 

3) Ban the sale or ownership of magazines with more than 10 round capacity. 

4) Make the sale of guns at gun shows illegal. Period. 

5) Make the sale of guns online illegal. Period. 

6) Reinstitute the Assault Weapons Ban. 

And if all that fails, we should do what every other industrialized democracy has done. Ban private gun ownership altogether, because that IS how the rest of the world works.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 24, 2012)

scitizen said:


> GIve the guy the money. It isn't worth your life.



The motto of the subservient libtard.

'Give me your money, it isnt worth your life' - the motto of the libtard in power.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 24, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > _Now, here's the thing.
> ...



And not a damned one of those things would have stopped any of the massacres we have endured over the last twenty years, some done while the AWB was in place, you liar.

That is because your goal is NOT to stop the masacres. You libtards get too much mileage off them.



JoeB131 said:


> And if all that fails, we should do what every other industrialized democracy has done. Ban private gun ownership altogether, because that IS how the rest of the world works.



There are half a dozen industrialized countries in Europe who have much higher homicide rates than the US, you fucking liar.

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Russia, the Ukraine, Lithuania, Estonia, Belarus, and Georgia (in the Caucasus Mountain region). The US is way down that list; something that no doubt drives you fascist thugs fucking crazy, lol.

Would it kill you to ever use an actual fact?


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## JoeB131 (Dec 24, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > And if all that fails, we should do what every *other industrialized democracy *has done. Ban private gun ownership altogether, because that IS how the rest of the world works.
> ...



No one considers any of these Former Soviet Republics to be "Advanced Industiral Democracies"...  which is the term I used...


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## JoeB131 (Dec 24, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > 9thIDdoc said:
> ...



Not a liberal, guy. Voted Republican in 7 of the last 8 presidential election.  Might have voted GOP this time if you clowns didn't nominate a weird Mormon Robot.  

You really don't think that if someone had done a real background check on Cho or Holmes, a tragedy couldn't have been averted?  

When I got hired for my current job, I had to

1) Name three references.
2) Give a list of all my prior employers.
3) Undergo a credit check.
4) Undergo a drug test.
5) Fill out a lengthy application.

And mind you, nothing that happens on my job can kill people.  

But Joker Holmes can walk into a gun store, pretty as you please, and buy an AR-15 with a hundred round barrel clip....


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## KissMy (Dec 24, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> The point is because Californbia is so strict on gun ownership I can almost gurantee if a kindergarten teacher used a firearm in a classroom killing someone who had a knife going for a kid the media would eat this up and rest assured many parents would question why a teacher would pop off in a classroom full of kids. That is my point!



So what? Threatening knife wielders get shot dead every day, even in NY & Cali. Would you rather they gut the children first? If Cali does not want such an awesome rock-star teacher, there are at least 40 other states who would love to have her.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 24, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...


 oh so since you were an armed guard for a short time you think you know about firearms. There are many examples of an armed citizen reacting to a shooter that could have ended up with a lot more deaths. two that I can think of off the top of my head the mall shooting in  Oregon. And the elderly gentleman at the game room

[ame=http://youtu.be/D1jwj2bipLo]Armed 71 Year-old Elderly Man Stops Robbers and Saves Lives in Internet Cafe - YouTube[/ame]


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 24, 2012)

I am an individual who does not tolerate enemies of America like you.





JimBowie1958 said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Jake just an observation, how about when you reply to someone, what about doing it correctly by putting their words in which you are replying to at the top, and then your response at the bottom or underneath theirs per your reply.. Makes sense doesn't it ? Like I said just an observation, but I know the button will have now been pushed, so I don't expect much in return. Just sayin...LOL
> ...


----------



## JakeStarkey (Dec 24, 2012)

Sane America laughs at the fascists, such as JB and others.

JB is interesting in that his latent homo-erotica becomes quite evidence when he gets mad and projects his self-loathing onto others.  Many of the SA socialist leadership he idolizes suffered from this illness.

His mental disease lessens somewhat when he is on his meds, but then he becomes even more angry.



JimBowie1958 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > I carry conceal.  I imagine you do.  No one is talking about taking our guns in power. What gun ban are you worried about?
> ...


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 24, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



You fucking stupid ass liar, you lie even when you quote the very text that makes your lie plain. You did not say advanced, you simply said 'industrial democracy', which is just a weasel term anyway. What about a nation like Russia that can produce advanced stealth fighters makes it NOT an advanced industrial democaracy? 

You libtards like to use loaded phrases to 'prove' your case when all you really prove is what a bunch of fucking liars you are.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Dec 24, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



The electronic background check does most of that, and wouldnt have made any difference anyway as these turds  usually steal the guns anyway.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 24, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



Russia is hardly an 'advanced' country and certainly isn't a democracy...  

Fact is, comparing Russia - a country that just emerged from 70 years of Communist dictatorship and is giving Putin more power, not less - to Advanced Industrial Democracies like Germany, Japan, the UK, Australia, is not a valid argument.  Those countries have been in states of chaos since the USSR fell.  

Point is, you can still ban guns and still have freedom and democracy, as these other countries have shown.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 24, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> [
> 
> The electronic background check does most of that, and wouldnt have made any difference anyway as these turds  usually steal the guns anyway.



but here's the thing. 

Cho didn't have to steal guns. He just bought them. 

Loughner didnt have to steal guns... he just bought them. 

Holmes didn't have to steal guns, he just bought them. 

Lanza didn't steal guns, he used Mommy's gun that she gave him easy access to.  (I'm reasonably sure that getting shot wasn't part of her brilliant parenting plan.) 

Let's address one problem at a time.  Let's make it hard for crazy people to buy guns... if we still have shootings because they steal them, then we can address that.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 24, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



But since what you propose is known to NOT WORK, the only thing you are trying to accomplish is to disarm the public. You could not give a damn about anyones kids.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 24, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Again, dumbfuck, Russia can produce advanced technology, so it by definition is an advanced industrial nation. And it is more of a democracy than we are. The US is a Republic that uses a democratic process to select most of its top officers, and there is a huge difference.



JoeB131 said:


> Fact is, comparing Russia - a country that just emerged from 70 years of Communist dictatorship and is giving Putin more power, not less - to Advanced Industrial Democracies like Germany, Japan, the UK, Australia, is not a valid argument.  Those countries have been in states of chaos since the USSR fell.



And libtards like you contriving artifical groupings of nations that essentially draw a line between those nations with low murder rates from those with higer murder rates, which is nothing more than a tautological circular argument, in efect.



JoeB131 said:


> Point is, you can still ban guns and still have freedom and democracy, as these other countries have shown.



You can, for a while. But only as freedom evaporates before your  eyes as it has been doing here for the last twelve years.


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## Unkotare (Dec 24, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Not a liberal, guy. Voted Republican in 7 of the last 8 presidential election. ....





Don't bother with the JakeFakey-level lies. It only makes you look even worse.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 24, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...





> Lanza didn't steal guns, he used Mommy's gun that she gave him easy access to.


Stop you son of a bitch  Lanza Murdered his mother and took guns that did not belong to him that's stealing. plus the fact he was a murder when he took them.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 24, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Not a liberal, guy. Voted Republican in 7 of the last 8 presidential election. ....
> ...



Worse? 

Is that even possible?


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 24, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> But since what you propose is known to NOT WORK, the only thing you are trying to accomplish is to disarm the public. You could not give a damn about anyones kids.



Except that it HAS worked in Australia, Canada, the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Japan... 

The public doesn't need to be armed.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 24, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > But since what you propose is known to NOT WORK, the only thing you are trying to accomplish is to disarm the public. You could not give a damn about anyones kids.
> ...



Yes the public does need to be armed. Tools like you are the reason we need to be armed.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 24, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > But since what you propose is known to NOT WORK, the only thing you are trying to accomplish is to disarm the public. You could not give a damn about anyones kids.
> ...



Crime was never a large problem in those countries, so the gun bans solved NOTHING and did not improve anything. In fact crime is on the increase now in the UK, Australia, France, Italy and Germany.

And the fact that gun grabbing whores like you are still trying to take our guns means that the public should never give up its guns.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 24, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



Exactly.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 24, 2012)

Check above for the comments to this .    Simple little losers pretending to be Republican. Don't need em, don't want such trash in the GOP.



JakeStarkey said:


> Sane America laughs at the fascists, such as JB and others.
> 
> JB is interesting in that his latent homo-erotica becomes quite evidence when he gets mad and projects his self-loathing onto others.  Many of the SA socialist leadership he idolizes suffered from this illness.
> 
> ...


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 24, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



No, you don't. really.  You cling to your gun and your bible because you think they give you control of your life, but they really don't.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 24, 2012)

Merry Christmas to all.

Unsubscribe.


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## Unkotare (Dec 24, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...




He's trying.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 24, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



You're the one calling  for the murder of Wayne LaPeirre


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 24, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Nobody is clinging to anything, you fascist.

And we will keep them as free men have since the beginning of time.

Historically the line of seperation between slaves, peasants and serfs at the bottom of society and free men above them was the right to bear arms in public. The historical meaning of the desire of fascist pigs like you to disarm us is unmistakable.


----------



## beagle9 (Dec 24, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > Here is my question to you guys because I am confused.
> ...


Of course this was a movie, but it was a movie none the less that was drawn out of real known situations that had gotten bad and/or out of hand in America, and worse it was allowed to get like this in public schools, and right beneath the nations noses, where as they ignored it all for to long, and this upon finally doing the right things early on about it as they should have.

This idea that all people are equal without character checks being waged upon them first, and that they should just be openly accepted without proving oneself to be good, is simply a huge fail in this nation, and this nation was completely idiotic to have ever allowed these types of goings on, to wildly be going on within the public school system, and this no matter where it was all being drawn from. 

It is totally unexceptable, and it should have never been allowed to get like this to begin with. It still is being found within the public school systems in America, and that is ashame for all the good kids whom want to learn, and also be there for all the right reasons.


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 24, 2012)

The righr to bear arm is the law of this land
If you don't like that you are free to leave


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## Aristotle (Dec 24, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



Sorry if you don't comprehend english


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## regent (Dec 24, 2012)

Is someone suggesting we arm the union thug school teachers? Next it will be union longshoremen thugs then the union police thugs, where will it end? Besides I don't think my fifth grade teacher could even lift a gun, and even though she was a union thug she didn't like to hurt people.


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## Aristotle (Dec 24, 2012)

Since Jim likes to hurl insults it is thus we've come to an en passé.


If someone can show me proof that a teacher from any country popped off at a school shooter protecting a lot of kids in a classroom I may jump on board.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 24, 2012)

9thIDdoc said:


> The righr to bear arm is the law of this land
> If you don't like that you are free to leave



Or change the laws like every other advanced democracy has done...


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## Meathead (Dec 24, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > The righr to bear arm is the law of this land
> ...


You really don't get it, do you? Perhaps I made a mistake in your case. I now think that your stupidity pre-empts your whining as your most annoying.


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 24, 2012)

Meathead said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > 9thIDdoc said:
> ...



Again, the only thing keeping the bizarre interpretation of the 2nd Amendment is one Supreme Court justice...  

One old, angry supreme court justice... 

Then we change the laws, ban guns and everything is fine, really.  

Because honestly, you haven't given me a good reason yet why the rest of us should let you have one.


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 24, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > The righr to bear arm is the law of this land
> ...



So take a shot at doing so if you're not all talk. Would be good for a laugh.


----------



## 9thIDdoc (Dec 24, 2012)

regent said:


> Is someone suggesting we arm the union thug school teachers? Next it will be union longshoremen thugs then the union police thugs, where will it end? Besides I don't think my fifth grade teacher could even lift a gun, and even though she was a union thug she didn't like to hurt people.


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## beagle9 (Dec 24, 2012)

regent said:


> Is someone suggesting we arm the union thug school teachers? Next it will be union longshoremen thugs then the union police thugs, where will it end? Besides I don't think my fifth grade teacher could even lift a gun, and even though she was a union thug she didn't like to hurt people.


Wow, these writers score high for dubious creative thinking and/or writing, even though it is all manipulative, devious and distracting material in which is created like this, and then it is next being found within an opportunistic situation in which they might find pefect for their specfic agenda or time, in which ends up taking away from the reality of the situation at hand, and then ultimately it takes away from the proper solutions in which is really what some want us to abandon when they do this sort of thing anyway.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 24, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...



Well, I can see where Americans wouldn't want any truck with protecting its citizens.  What a silly idea!  



Aristotle said:


> They are in constant danger of either being invaded, or infiltrated. We don't have that problem. Our concerns are the current wars, fiscal cliffs, and the internal strife we like to call "war on drugs."



You forgot being overrun with the various, garden-variety criminals the left so loves to coddle (or were you imagining that all crime in the United States is due to "the war on drugs"?) and occasionally being mowed down in the process of our daily lives by the occasional homicidal lunatic.

Pretty sure I'm still back at not caring what the motivation is behind the bullet aimed at my children.



Aristotle said:


> The idea that teachers in Israel packing guns does nothing for the advancement of the proponents argument that teachers arming themselves as being a logical solution to school violence.



Thanks, but I actually understood what your idea was.  MY point was that it's nonsensical bullshit, and I think I'm going to consider that my final answer.


----------



## JoeB131 (Dec 24, 2012)

9thIDdoc said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > 9thIDdoc said:
> ...



Ummm... yeah.  Here's the thing.  Even REpublicans are throwing the NRA under the bus right now... and Wayne LaPeirre frothing at the mouth on TV like Old Yeller didn't help his cause much.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 24, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



As you pointed out, Israel isn't exactly unique among those of us who believe it is the duty of government to provide the common defense from enemies whether foreign or domestic.  I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the Founders wrote that down.   And further, they gave us the Second Amendment so that the citizens would always have the right to defend themselves from those intent on doing violence to them.

And we are not in danger of being infiltrated?  Really?  I wonder why our prisons are disproportionately populated with illegals who have committed crimes here?  And don't forget that the 9/11 hijackers were all in the country legally as was the 'shoe bomber' and others who weren't as successful but who have nevertheless forced us to change our lifestyles forever.

And yes, it would seem to me that those teachers and administratiors who are entrusted with the minds and physical welfare of our children for many hours every week could be trusted with the means of defending them as well should they accept that responsibility.


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## Aristotle (Dec 24, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...




Its nonsensical bullshit yet you cannot:

1) Explain how you can factor the budgeting issues of equipping teachers in school districts who are already having a budgeting crisis

2) Demonstrate how using real world examples of teachers actually killing suspected shooters actually supports the argument that teachers ought to be armed.

3) You cannot coherently display a cohesive view of how arming teachers even though school has police presence, prevents future school shootings.

Let's stop this ridiculous nonsense of calling each other's comments bullshit and let us converse philosophically as to how the other person's views is nonsensical. 

I'm sick of you sensationalist gun freaks telling me "let's arm the teachers, because your comments are bullshit"

I just laid out a budgeting argument and nobody, not one person with some sense in mind has tackled that. I gave you guys the current budget of California both our state capital and Los Angeles and even provided links for reference and not one person touched that. I explained in detail that every teacher that becomes certified in the state of California to teach does not voluntarily go out and get a concealed weapons permit. We are not Texas nor are we the stand-your-ground-florida. California is one of the most strict gun law states in the United States. 

I am asking you guys to tackle this problem which you failed to do.

This is the last time I will answer these questions so allow me to reformat them. If you fail to answer it or are unable to then I will realize that with all your bickering and name calling that you do not have a universal answer to a localized problem.

1) In a state such as California that has fiscal issues, how does every single teacher, from pre-school, to kindergarten, to elementary, to high school, to college how does the state provide for permits, bulletproof vests, training, and certification?

2) Once certified, what do we do with the annual pay-out of $104 million for police officers who are present on school campuses along with the annual re-cert for armed teachers? (Remember every two years a teacher not only has to re-cert for a gun permit, but also for their license which will cost districts more money).

3) If teachers are armed yet their needs to be school cut backs such as after-school programs along with other extra-cirricular activities is it necessary to cut those programs in order to sustain the budgeting to allow teachers to have bullet proof vests, sidearms, and the necessary tools to defend themselves?


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## Aristotle (Dec 24, 2012)

The media has so far accomplished its goal in frightening the public in thinking that a teacher with a gun in a classroom is the safest bet, yet do not consider the following:

Temporary insanity.

Anyone presently sane can pass a psychological evaluation (MMPI) especially if they're consistent in their responses, but what about afterwards? What about people who have marital issues, or family crisis or even better yet, what about their homes being forclosed along with going through all three? What if a teacher snaps and decides to kill him/herself along with the kids in the classroom, then what? 

Or what about accidental discharges in the classroom? What if the teacher accidentally discharges their weapon in the classroom and in some freakish way someone other than the teacher gets hit?


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## beagle9 (Dec 24, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Since Jim likes to hurl insults it is thus we've come to an en passé.
> 
> 
> If someone can show me proof that a teacher from any country popped off at a school shooter protecting a lot of kids in a classroom I may jump on board.


They popped off alright, and it was at the shooter, only sad part is, is that they just tried using their naked skin & bones to confront him when doing so, Oh and guess what ? It didn't work so well for them, nor for the children who relied on someone near helping them or for the calvary to arrive finally..

When arrived it was liken to the Alamo awaiting their back up or rescue to come as well, and yet never did it come on time, but the Alamo was a less gruesome scene I imagine in comparrison to, and this after looking at these little children laying dead with their un-armed teachers at their side who were also dead. Now what part of DEAD don't you understand ?


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## beagle9 (Dec 24, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> The media has so far accomplished its goal in frightening the public in thinking that a teacher with a gun in a classroom is the safest bet, yet do not consider the following:
> 
> Temporary insanity.
> 
> ...


Then what ? Well you answered the most important question with the beginning of your post, where as the good civilian being armed is the only immediate help to intervene and save lives until the cops or whomever else finally gets there.... It's simple man, just think about it with some common sense PLEASE!


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## Aristotle (Dec 24, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > Since Jim likes to hurl insults it is thus we've come to an en passé.
> ...



Do you have evidence or not?


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## Aristotle (Dec 24, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > The media has so far accomplished its goal in frightening the public in thinking that a teacher with a gun in a classroom is the safest bet, yet do not consider the following:
> ...



I am thinking common sense......Just like the 11 year old who brought a gun to school because he wanted to protect himself from a future school attacker

Utah boy brings gun to school, cites Newtown fears - Yahoo! News

Or like this guy

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...-theater-showing-batman-movie-police-say?lite


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## ABikerSailor (Dec 24, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> The media has so far accomplished its goal in frightening the public in thinking that a teacher with a gun in a classroom is the safest bet, yet do not consider the following:
> 
> Temporary insanity.
> 
> ...



These are valid points.  I'd like to offer another one as well.

Most people who aren't military trained don't really know what they'd do in a situation where they're in a live firefight.  How do you know they won't freeze up or start squeezing off random rounds?


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## Unkotare (Dec 24, 2012)

ABikerSailor said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > The media has so far accomplished its goal in frightening the public in thinking that a teacher with a gun in a classroom is the safest bet, yet do not consider the following:
> ...




Do even militarily trained people know that until they've been in such a situation?


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## ABikerSailor (Dec 24, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...



They may not know how they feel about it, but I can guarantee you that with all the training they go through, it becomes a reflex response.  In my first real fire at sea, I didn't know how I'd react, but because of all the drilling and training I'd done, I didn't really think about much other than what my training taught me until after the fire was out.

And............when I was a member of the Security Forces in Newport RI, even though there was never a situation that I had to actually draw my weapon on someone, I was pretty confident that if something did occur, all the time at the range (doing tactical training, running around the range and shooting from various positions like from doorways, windows and behind low walls), that I'd be able to respond properly.  

I did that at least once a month, every month, for 2 1/2 years.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 24, 2012)

ABikerSailor said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...



That sounds like what I do once a month.


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## Unkotare (Dec 24, 2012)

ABikerSailor said:


> They may not know how they feel about it, but I can guarantee you that with all the training they go through, it becomes a reflex response.  In my first real fire at sea, I didn't know how I'd react, but because of all the drilling and training I'd done, I didn't really think about much other than what my training taught me until after the fire was out.





Wait, what kind of "firefight" were you talking about?


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## ABikerSailor (Dec 24, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > They may not know how they feel about it, but I can guarantee you that with all the training they go through, it becomes a reflex response.  In my first real fire at sea, I didn't know how I'd react, but because of all the drilling and training I'd done, I didn't really think about much other than what my training taught me until after the fire was out.
> ...



I was telling you of a situation that I'd actually gone through that was dangerous and would have most people running in the opposite direction, but, because of my repeated training, I didn't think about it much until after the situation was over.  I then told you about the weapons training I'd gone through in Security Forces, and even though I'd never actually had to draw my weapon on someone for real, I'm pretty sure that with all the training that I'd gone through, I'd be able to react properly.

Most teachers aren't going to go and do tactical training on a gun range once a month, so them being able to know how to react and what to do is kinda questionable, because they've never done it before.


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 24, 2012)

Firefights and fighting fires are by no means the same. Training and experience are a great help
but noone knows for _sure _ what they will or won't do in a given situation because no two situations are exactly the same and neither are we.


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## beagle9 (Dec 24, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...


Ok so these are unusual circumstances or acts that are a result of the mayhem that was perpetrated on that aweful day in conneticutt or in the other incidents, so do we punish all the good people/citizens in this nation for these additional irrational acts, that are going to happen as a result of such chaos ? No we don't, because they are very few and far between, but we are to punish the whole nation because of these things now ? 

Again no we don't, only that it's just that people like you whom have a bigger agenda installed for the good people of this nation down the road, and for whom thinks in these ways, hopes that soon the good people will be forced to abide by your rules or ideals, and so it's don't let a good crisis go to waste for people like you eh ?


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## beagle9 (Dec 24, 2012)

ABikerSailor said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...


Questionable until proper training is completed at the levels called for, well of course, but not impossible at all for them to suceed on any given day afterwards...


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## Aristotle (Dec 24, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...




I'm talking about irrational fear of the unknown. It is irrational to start arming yourself at a movie theater all because of one isolated case, or bring a gun to school because you _think something is going to happen._


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## Aristotle (Dec 24, 2012)

regent said:


> Is someone suggesting we arm the union thug school teachers? Next it will be union longshoremen thugs then the union police thugs, where will it end? Besides I don't think my fifth grade teacher could even lift a gun, and even though she was a union thug she didn't like to hurt people.



something tells me you don't like unions lol


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## regnum_defundie (Dec 25, 2012)

How about doing what Michael Moore suggested around 10 years ago and investigate the link between SSRI Antidepressants and violence? And why isn't Moore saying that now? Perhaps only Moore knows for sure...

Here''s the horses mouth(sorry):
youtube dot com/watch?v=DpinCRaAQOk

A US Government National Institutes of Health paper called:
*Antidepressants and Violence-problems at the Interface of Medicine & Law*
says the same thing:
ncbi DOT nlm DOT nih DOT gov/pmc/articles/PMC1564177/]Antidepressants and Violence: Problems at the Interface of Medicine and Law
(linked at video or just google it)

time to rethink feeding serious drugs to teenagers. now. today.


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## koshergrl (Dec 25, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...



You don't think your fear of guns is an irrational fear of the unknown?

I don't have an irrational fear of anything. People who are armed have no fear whatever, I promise you..including other people who are armed. When I have my 30-30 with me, I'm not concerned that some druggie with a 22 is going to kill me and my family when we're camping.


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## JoeB131 (Dec 25, 2012)

regnum_defundie said:


> How about doing what Michael Moore suggested around 10 years ago and investigate the link between SSRI Antidepressants and violence? And why isn't Moore saying that now? Perhaps only Moore knows for sure...
> 
> Here''s the horses mouth(sorry):
> youtube dot com/watch?v=DpinCRaAQOk
> ...



I agree.  We are prescribing too many drugs to friviously to not just children but adults.


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## beagle9 (Dec 25, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...


Round and round and round we go, but I'm always right in the end so just remember that...smile


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## beagle9 (Dec 25, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...


The sad thing is, is that these bleeding heart libs & the selfish greedy bad guy's in this nation, have made our nation way to dangerous now, and so now we have to carry a 30/30 rifle with us camping?

What a screwed up situation that we have now, especially since we have gotten ourselves into such a situation like this in which we have in this nation now.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 25, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > 9thIDdoc said:
> ...



Leftists are such children, with their black-and-white, all-or-nothing mentalities.  They don't ever seem to get that you don't make something illegal with the expectation that you will wipe it out completely.  You do it to lessen the incidence of that behavior, which means you need to THINK THROUGH what that will entail.

We already have laws against murder, which lessens the incidence of people killing each other by a LOT, believe it or not.  But people still do it on occasion, obviously.  If we make laws against owning guns, it will lessen the incidence of people owning guns, but it WILL NOT wipe out all gun ownership.  So the part that has to be thought through is, "If people are going to own guns - and they are - WHICH people do I want that to be?"  Trust me, it mostly AIN'T going to be the people who are inclined to ignore the law.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 25, 2012)

KissMy said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > The point is because Californbia is so strict on gun ownership I can almost gurantee if a kindergarten teacher used a firearm in a classroom killing someone who had a knife going for a kid the media would eat this up and rest assured many parents would question why a teacher would pop off in a classroom full of kids. That is my point!
> ...



She can move to Arizona.  Hell, every OTHER rat deserting the sinking ship that is California is moving here, so she might as well.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 25, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Since Jim likes to hurl insults it is thus we've come to an en passé.
> 
> 
> If someone can show me proof that a teacher from any country popped off at a school shooter protecting a lot of kids in a classroom I may jump on board.



I think you mean "impasse".  I'm not entirely sure, because there are limits even to MY ability to translate gibberish to English.

Honestly, if you fools are only semi-literate in your own mother tongue, PLEASE don't make it worse by dragging in other languages and mangling them.

And I do so love the whole "We'll change the law to allow teachers to carry guns in school IF you can show me evidence of a teacher using a gun in defense WHILE IT'S ILLEGAL FOR THEM TO CARRY GUNS IN SCHOOL."

Could you possibly BE a bigger dumbfuck without special surgery?


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 25, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...



Gosh, I "cannot" solve straw-man problems that you've created.  THAT'S a convincing argument.

Would it shock you to know that budget solutions for school districts are NOT a federal problem?  I know you'd love to jump straight from "Let's allow faculty with concealed-carry permits to gain permission to carry their weapons on campus" to "We need massive new federal laws implementing budgetary measures on EVERY SCHOOL DISTRICT IN AMERICA!" because that's how leftists think, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to jump off that particular crazy train and let you continue on down the tracks without me.



Aristotle said:


> 2) Demonstrate how using real world examples of teachers actually killing suspected shooters actually supports the argument that teachers ought to be armed.



Really, dumbass?  You REALLY think I'm going to accept "I'll change the law when you show me proof of people doing what's currently against the law" as any sort of fucking standard?  This is lame even for a straw man.



Aristotle said:


> 3) You cannot coherently display a cohesive view of how arming teachers even though school has police presence, prevents future school shootings.



I hadn't realized that you REQUIRED me to explain why water is wet, so no, I didn't bother.  Having adjusted my view of your intelligence downward accordingly, let me clarify:

Say I'm a crazed gunman, planning to end my life in a blaze of glory - or, at least, media coverage - by shooting up the local school.  Say further than I know said school has a resource officer, as they used to be called in my area, back when TPD could afford that many cops.  And, of course, I know that, except for that resource officer, everyone else on that campus is legally barred from having a gun anywhere on the property.  I have two choices at that point:  Look for the resource officer, who is easily identified by his police uniform, and kill him; or find out where he is and start my rampage somewhere on campus that he's far away from.

Now, say I'm the same crazed gunman, wanting to shoot up the local school.  But say this time I know that, in addition to the uniformed resource officer, the school ALSO allows its faculty to carry/have weapons on campus, and THOSE people are NOT easily identified by their uniforms.  I have two choices at that point:  go in and risk getting killed without my blaze of glorious media coverage, or go somewhere with easier targets.

It's called logic, Bubba.  Try it sometime.



Aristotle said:


> Let's stop this ridiculous nonsense of calling each other's comments bullshit and let us converse philosophically as to how the other person's views is nonsensical.



It's not "nonsense", chum.  I think everything you say is bullshit, and I have no intention of treating it with respect it isn't due, just because you ask me to.  You want my respect for your words, say something that deserves it.

Until then, the most "philosophical" conversation you're going to get out of me is a point-by-point explanation of why you're a dumbass and your posts are bullshit.  You should feel grateful, actually:  I frequently don't bother explaining it.



Aristotle said:


> I'm sick of you sensationalist gun freaks telling me "let's arm the teachers, because your comments are bullshit"



If that's all you're bothering to read and understand about the posts in this thread, that's YOUR problem for being a rockheaded idealogue hack who's incapable of internalizing and comprehending other people's points of view, not mine for not saying what you want to hear.



Aristotle said:


> I just laid out a budgeting argument and nobody, not one person with some sense in mind has tackled that. I gave you guys the current budget of California both our state capital and Los Angeles and even provided links for reference and not one person touched that. I explained in detail that every teacher that becomes certified in the state of California to teach does not voluntarily go out and get a concealed weapons permit. We are not Texas nor are we the stand-your-ground-florida. California is one of the most strict gun law states in the United States.
> 
> I am asking you guys to tackle this problem which you failed to do.



I haven't "failed", chum (and I DO mean that in the sense of "bloody meat dumped in the water to attract sharks").  I refuse to "tackle" it.  You know why?  BECAUSE I DON'T LIVE IN CALIFORNIA.  Not anywhere in the fucking state.  And I don't live in California for a very good reason:  I don't want to have to deal with the consequences of the stupid fucking laws and the stupid fucking voters who pass those stupid fucking laws.  What California does or doesn't do to deal with their screwed-up budgets and schools and how they manage to implement safety programs for their schools is not my problem.  Refer above to my point about individual school districts NOT BEING A FEDERAL PROBLEM.

Personally, I live in Arizona, and one of the reasons I do so is because of the lovely, sensible attitude Arizonans have toward guns.



Aristotle said:


> This is the last time I will answer these questions so allow me to reformat them. If you fail to answer it or are unable to then I will realize that with all your bickering and name calling that you do not have a universal answer to a localized problem.



I believe you mean "This is the last time I will ASK these questions", and I can only say, "One can hope."



Aristotle said:


> 1) In a state such as California that has fiscal issues, how does every single teacher, from pre-school, to kindergarten, to elementary, to high school, to college how does the state provide for permits, bulletproof vests, training, and certification?



Not my fucking problem, because it's not my fucking state.  By the way, who said anything about bulletproof vests and "every single teacher"?  Feel free to stop putting words into my mouth, and trying to make me responsible for YOUR straw men.



Aristotle said:


> 2) Once certified, what do we do with the annual pay-out of $104 million for police officers who are present on school campuses along with the annual re-cert for armed teachers? (Remember every two years a teacher not only has to re-cert for a gun permit, but also for their license which will cost districts more money).



Again, not my problem, because you're not talking about MY school district.  MY school district exists in a city which doesn't have enough cops to put resource officers in the schools anymore (and you don't wanna know about police response times to emergencies, trust me).  It DOES, however, exist in a city where there are LOTS of gun owners, and anyone with a legal gun can carry it concealed if they so desire.  Do I think each of the schools in my district can find a group of teachers who are already privately armed?  Uh, yeah.

How YOU go about implementing safety programs is YOUR problem.



Aristotle said:


> 3) If teachers are armed yet their needs to be school cut backs such as after-school programs along with other extra-cirricular activities is it necessary to cut those programs in order to sustain the budgeting to allow teachers to have bullet proof vests, sidearms, and the necessary tools to defend themselves?



See above re: making me responsible for your straw men.  You want to ask me a question, you ask it about MY words, not about the ones you WANT me to have said.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 25, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...



Sorry, WHY is it irrational to carry a firearm when you go out?  Because YOU don't like them, so you assume it's a horrible, distasteful thing?

For your information, I have several friends who do this as a matter of course (because my state allows it) and give it no more thought than they do putting on their shoes and picking up their wallet and car keys.  It's not a big deal . . . except to hysterical gun haters.


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## Aristotle (Dec 25, 2012)

@Koshergrl

Bringing a gun in a movie theater especially since it will be frequented by men, women, and children is irrational. With police and security personnel around and the high probability of overreacting and possibly wrongfully discharging a weapon in an enclosed area is foolish. If I brought a loaded gun to my college campus under the fear that something will happen I am negligent, because the law (and common sense) states that I cannot bring a loaded gun despite me having permits. Why?

1) I am not in any uniform

2) No citizen carrying a firearm because they think something is going to happen most likely will not carry their permit and even if they did, law enforcement cannot distinguish conspiracy to commit murder or just an irrational fear.

3) The high probability of discharging a weapon in an enclosed area with other people. If I am sitting down in a classroom and I am fidgety, and if my gun is not secured properly, it may discharge possibly injuring myself and others.

I do not understand how you don't understand this.....

Perhaps in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and Florida this is fine but here in California, bringing weapons based on a potentially false premonition is neither lawful nor logical.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 25, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > 9thIDdoc said:
> ...



A small sarc tag would have been most helpful, lol.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 26, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> @Koshergrl
> 
> Bringing a gun in a movie theater especially since it will be frequented by men, women, and children is irrational.



Why? Why is being defenseless rational to you libtards and preferable to being armed?



Aristotle said:


> With police and security personnel around and the high probability of overreacting and possibly wrongfully discharging a weapon in an enclosed area is foolish.



Bullshit; people do it all the time to protect others and themselves and such things as accidental shootings are very rare, less likely than drowing in a swimming pool by a factor nearly a hundred from what I remember.



Aristotle said:


> If I brought a loaded gun to my college campus under the fear that something will happen I am negligent, because the law (and common sense) states that I cannot bring a loaded gun despite me having permits. Why?
> 
> 1) I am not in any uniform



Why do you fascists have this obsession about uniforms?



Aristotle said:


> 2) No citizen carrying a firearm because *they think something is going to happen, most likely will not carry their permit *...



Are you fucking kidding? JEEBUS, you dont know what the hell you are talking about.

Why in the hell would such a person NOT carry their permits, Baby Genius?



Aristotle said:


> and even if they did, law enforcement cannot distinguish conspiracy to commit murder or just an irrational fear.



So you think that the cops are as stupid as you are? That is interesting then as you want them to be the only ones with guns, right? Yeah, arming the stupid always works, right.



Aristotle said:


> 3) The high probability of discharging a weapon in an enclosed area with other people. If I am sitting down in a classroom and I am fidgety, and if my gun is not secured properly, it may discharge possibly injuring myself and others.



Guns have to pass a 20 foot drop test, ignoramus, and they dont discharge from merely being dropped anymore. Would it kill you to learn a few facts about guns before spewing your ignorance all over the damned place?



Aristotle said:


> I do not understand how you don't understand this.....



That's an easy one; because you are apparently a moron with a shoe size larger than your IQ.




Aristotle said:


> Perhaps in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and Florida this is fine but here in California, bringing weapons based on a potentially false premonition is neither lawful nor logical.



Kaliphornica? Who gives a fuck about that hell hole?


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## koshergrl (Dec 26, 2012)

It's not irrational to protect one's loved ones from armed killers. 

Meanwhile:

'Woodham fatally shot Lydia Kaye Dew and Christina Menefee, his former  girlfriend. Pearl High School's assistant band director, Jeff Cannon,  was standing five feet away from Dew when she was fatally shot. Woodham  went on to wound seven others.[2][3][4][5][6][7] The school's assistant principal, Joel Myrick, retrieved a .45  pistol from his truck and, spotting him near the parking lot, shouted  for Woodham to stop. Woodham instead got into a his mother's car and  tried to escape. Myrick, a US Army Reserve commander, detained Woodham  until authorities arrived."

Yes, Virginia....an armed school employee can save lives....and has.

Pearl High School shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## koshergrl (Dec 26, 2012)

" It was not a cry for attention, it was not a cry for help. It was a  scream in sheer agony saying that if you can't pry your eyes open, if I  can't do it through pacifism, if I can't show you through the displaying of intelligence, then I will do it with a bullet."

Pearl High School shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This kid stabbed and bludgeoned his mother before going to the school. He was a member of a satanic cult.

You get rid of all knives, all clubs, and satanism, and we'll talk about limiting access to the only meaningful protection we currently have. When I hear baby killing loons say things like "it's irrational to protect the president of the united states by arming those who are hired to protect him" then I'll take your moronic insistence that it's "irrational" to defend children in schools, which are CONSISTENTLY targeted by lunatics, a little more seriously.

Until then, I'll continue to point out the fact that you are more highly motivated to kill children, than to protect them, as is evidenced by every dumbfuck statement posted by the loons who insist they don't want children protected.


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## koshergrl (Dec 26, 2012)

Another school shooting stopped before the body count reached 28:
"The *Appalachian School of Law shooting* was a school shooting that occurred on January 16, 2002, at the Appalachian School of Law, an American Bar Association accredited private law school in Grundy, Virginia,  United States. Three people were killed and three others were wounded  when a former student, 43-year-old Peter Odighizuwa, opened fire in the  school with a handgun...

"According to Bridges: at the first sound of gunfire, he and fellow  student Mikael Gross, unbeknownst to each other, ran to their vehicles  to retrieve their personally-owned firearms[6] placed in their glove compartments. Mikael Gross, a police officer from Grifton, North Carolina retrieved a 9 mm pistol and body armor.[7] Bridges, a county sheriff's deputy from Asheville, North Carolina[8] retrieved his .357 Magnum pistol from beneath the driver's seat of his Chevrolet Tahoe.[9] Bridges and Gross approached Odighizuwa from different angles, with Bridges yelling at Odighizuwa to drop his gun.[10] Odighizuwa then dropped his firearm and was subdued by several other unarmed students, including Ted Besen and Todd Ross."


Appalachian School of Law shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The shooting was cited by John Lott[16] and others[17] as an example of the media's bias against guns, describing how the use of a firearm in a defensive role was not reported in most news stories of the event."


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## koshergrl (Dec 26, 2012)

"The shooting began on an outdoor patio, about 20 minutes before the  dance was scheduled to end, around 9:40. He shot John Gillette after he  asked Wurst to come inside. Before running out of ammunition, Wurst  proceeded to enter Nick's Place, where the dance had been held, and  subsequently fired and wounded Edrye Boraten, a teacher and two  students, Jacob Tury and Justin Fletcher.[1] The shooting ended when the owner of Nick's Place, James Strand, intervened and confronted Wurst with his shotgun, ordering him to drop his weapon and later holding him at bay for eleven minutes."

Parker Middle School dance shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## idb (Dec 26, 2012)

So, I'm just wondering...when the gun proponents have their way and every teacher is armed to the teeth, every school is locked down tighter than Alcatraz and they are no longer considered a soft target - what happens then?
What happens when the lunatics decide to go after new soft targets...bus stops, queues outside night clubs or football games, kids' sporting tournaments, family picnics, etc?

Is the answer still more unrestricted access to guns?
Should parks and sports fields and public places all be locked down with fences and walls and metal detectors and protected with armed personnel?

And shouldn't school buses be armour-plated with an armed guard on board as they take the kids from the fortified safety of the school to the walled enclave where they live.
It's too late to say "I wish we had..." after the first school bus attack.

Like I said, I'm just wondering...


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## JoeB131 (Dec 26, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> @Koshergrl
> 
> Bringing a gun in a movie theater especially since it will be frequented by men, women, and children is irrational. With police and security personnel around and the high probability of overreacting and possibly wrongfully discharging a weapon in an enclosed area is foolish. If I brought a loaded gun to my college campus under the fear that something will happen I am negligent, because the law (and common sense) states that I cannot bring a loaded gun despite me having permits. Why?
> 
> ...



I'll go one further... My nephew told me that at his college town, they gave out plastic swords to the moviegoers who saw "the Hobbit" in what was probably a badly thought out promotion.  Rest assured, there was very little movie watching and a lot of college guys doing sword fights. Now imagine some NRA Zimmerman Wannabe misinterpretting that stuff.


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## koshergrl (Dec 26, 2012)

idb said:


> So, I'm just wondering...when the gun proponents have their way and every teacher is armed to the teeth, every school is locked down tighter than Alcatraz and they are no longer considered a soft target - what happens then?
> What happens when the lunatics decide to go after new soft targets...bus stops, queues outside night clubs or football games, kids' sporting tournaments, family picnics, etc?
> 
> Is the answer still more unrestricted access to guns?
> ...





When that happens, why don't we deal with it? Instead of giving up now that they're targeting children at schools, throwing up our hands and saying "Oh well, if they're going to kill them, they're going to kill them, there's no point to protecting them." 

What complete idiocy.


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## koshergrl (Dec 26, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > @Koshergrl
> ...



Yeah. Cuz that's happened a lot.

So..based on the fantasy that an armed individual might take fright at a bunch of idiots waving plastic swords at a movie theatre, we should refuse to protect our school children at school.



You baby killers are sick fuckers.


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## idb (Dec 26, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > So, I'm just wondering...when the gun proponents have their way and every teacher is armed to the teeth, every school is locked down tighter than Alcatraz and they are no longer considered a soft target - what happens then?
> ...



So, how many attacks on the new soft targets will it take before it needs to be dealt with?

Haven't you already given up by rejecting any discussion on gun control and throwing up your hands and saying "oh well, since there are so many nasty people out there with guns all we can do it is get more guns and security to protect ourselves?" 

What complete idiocy.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 26, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> @Koshergrl
> 
> Bringing a gun in a movie theater especially since it will be frequented by men, women, and children is irrational. With police and security personnel around and the high probability of overreacting and possibly wrongfully discharging a weapon in an enclosed area is foolish. If I brought a loaded gun to my college campus under the fear that something will happen I am negligent, because the law (and common sense) states that I cannot bring a loaded gun despite me having permits. Why?
> 
> ...



Yeah, KG, it's irrational to bring a gun anywhere around other people, because you know how those sneaky little metal bastards like to jump out of the holster and just start randomly firing.


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## Aristotle (Dec 26, 2012)

You guys are funny


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 26, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > @Koshergrl
> ...



Zimmerman, you mean the guy that shot that punk gang banging moron to death for trying to beat Zimmerman to death first?

Figures you libtards would have a problem with that, bitch.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 26, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> You guys are funny



You are pathetic.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 26, 2012)

idb said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Look, idiot, no one is saying we need more gunns; we just need to allow people who already have guns to be able to keep them at school in order to defend children.

That your little commie soul cant quite grasp that is no reflection on anyone else but you.


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## idb (Dec 26, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Look idiot, no one is saying that you shouldn't defend children.
They're saying that a serious discussion needs to be held on why these shootings are happening and what should be done about it.

That your little right-wing loon brain can't understand the less than subtle difference is a complete reflection on you.

As an aside, what do you do if no-one at the school owns a gun or, if they do, they don't want to bring it with them?


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## gipper (Dec 26, 2012)




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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 26, 2012)

idb said:


> Look idiot, no one is saying that you shouldn't defend children.



Yes, you are when you demand gun free schools, fucktard. You are disarming the people who can defend those children, moron.




idb said:


> They're saying that a serious discussion needs to be held on why these shootings are happening and what should be done about it.



When gun grabbing whores like you say you want a discussion, what you really mean is, 'We want to give RINOs and GOP gun grabbers the opportunity to agree to more gun restrictions and the eventual ban of all guns but with CYA by claiming it was the Comittee that did it.'

You do not know the meaning of real discussion with all possibilities on the table that dont violate the Constitution.



idb said:


> That your little right-wing loon brain can't understand the less than subtle difference is a complete reflection on you.



I do understand the difference between what you say and what you mean. I am slo not rightwing, doofus.




idb said:


> As an aside, what do you do if no-one at the school owns a gun or, if they do, they don't want to bring it with them?



Another example of libtard brain lock. I would suggest they ask for volunteers among the parents whose children attend the school.

Failing that then hire some damned guards.


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## idb (Dec 26, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Look idiot, no one is saying that you shouldn't defend children.
> ...



You must be confusing me with someone else, I've never demanded gun-free schools, fucktard.

By not accepting that discussion needs to be held you gun-loons run the risk of not being involved when it inevitably happens.

I was replying to this statement by you which said nothing about parent volunteers but was clearly meaning staff bringing their own guns to school.


> we just need to allow people who already have guns to be able to keep them at school in order to defend children.


Yet another example of right-wing loons shifting the ground every time reason is brought to the discussion.

This statement shows that you don't understand anything, doofus


> I do understand the difference between what you say and what you mean. I am slo not rightwing, doofus.


I said that you don't understand the true discussion, not that you don't understand what I'm saying/meaning.

You present yourself as a right-wing loon by taking black and white stances, by refusing to accept national discussion on the mass shootings, by labelling anyone that disagrees with you or presents a different point of view as a Libtard or baby killer or whatever.
Wear your label with pride.


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## Aristotle (Dec 26, 2012)

idb its ok, you can't rationalize with morons


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## Aristotle (Dec 26, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...




I'm still waiting for your proof that arming teachers would work...


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## Aristotle (Dec 26, 2012)

To those with horrible reading comprehension my views are as follows:

1) Beef up armed security at schools. Maintain police presence around campuses along with security personnel.

2) Keep guns out of teachers hands. Teachers need to worry about teaching not paranoia. 

3) Since the shootings schools need to develop a plan in the event another tragedy like the Sandy Hook, Columbine, Virginia Tech shooting occurs.

4) Keep guns out of teachers hands.

5) Reinforce trust in police and security presence on school campuses.


Let security be handled by those who base their profession around such. As you can see I never once said to keep security away from schools I merely am saying do not let teachers have guns. Its an additional worry they bare amongst a host of other things.


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 26, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> idb its ok, you can't rationalize with morons



That's one of your problems; you ratioalize when you should be trying to *reason*.


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## Aristotle (Dec 26, 2012)

9thIDdoc said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > idb its ok, you can't rationalize with morons
> ...



Um, not to sound like a douche but to rationalize is to reason.......They are the same thing.


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## idb (Dec 26, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> idb its ok, you can't rationalize with morons



I know but...I...just...can't...stop......aaaarrrgghhhh!!!!


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## idb (Dec 26, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> To those with horrible reading comprehension my views are as follows:
> 
> 1) Beef up armed security at schools. Maintain police presence around campuses along with security personnel.
> 
> ...



There's a broader societal discussion required as well isn't there?


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## Aristotle (Dec 26, 2012)

idb said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > To those with horrible reading comprehension my views are as follows:
> ...



LOL of course


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 26, 2012)

idb said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Then why not allow teachers to be armed?



idb said:


> By not accepting that discussion needs to be held you gun-loons run the risk of not being involved when it inevitably happens.



Hey, I want everything you own! You disagree? Well then WHY DONT WE SIT DOWN AND HAVE A DISCUSSION ON IT THEN? 

WE have the 2A that guarrantees our gun rights. Any discussion that infringes on that right is DOA and you can go have a discussion with any retard you wantthat just cant grasp that point. I bet Aristotle is available, lol.



idb said:


> I was replying to this statement by you which said nothing about parent volunteers but was clearly meaning staff bringing their own guns to school.
> 
> 
> > we just need to allow people who already have guns to be able to keep them at school in order to defend children.
> ...



My bet is that almost every school has teachers and parents that will voluntarily carry at school. And that I didnt list every possibility or suggestion that I have suggested before is called synecdoche; look it up sometime.



idb said:


> This statement shows that you don't understand anything, doofus
> 
> 
> > I do understand the difference between what you say and what you mean. I am slo not rightwing, doofus.
> ...



I dont fucking care any more. 



idb said:


> You present yourself as a right-wing loon by taking black and white stances, by refusing to accept national discussion on the mass shootings, by labelling anyone that disagrees with you or presents a different point of view as a Libtard or baby killer or whatever.
> Wear your label with pride.



Constitutional rights ARE black and white in this matter, and you can wear your label with pride; gun-grabbing fascist whore.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 26, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> idb its ok, you can't rationalize with morons



Maybe thats why he wasnt talking  to you idjit.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 26, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



She has given it to you many times as have others, so go fuck yourself, fascist scumbag.


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## idb (Dec 26, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...


Who's saying they want to take away all your guns?

At least you hyphenated 'gun-grabbing', as it should be.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 26, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> To those with horrible reading comprehension my views are as follows:
> 
> 1) Beef up armed security at schools. Maintain police presence around campuses along with security personnel.



Agreed.



Aristotle said:


> 2) Keep guns out of teachers hands. Teachers need to worry about teaching not paranoia.



Dont agree. There is no reason for a teacher who wants to to carry concealed if she passes the vetting process.

And defending students is nto paranoia, dumbass.



Aristotle said:


> 3) Since the shootings schools need to develop a plan in the event another tragedy like the Sandy Hook, Columbine, Virginia Tech shooting occurs.



Yeah, like hurling themselves into gunfire? Yeah, that'll work.



Aristotle said:


> 4) Keep guns out of teachers hands.



You already said that dumbfuck.



Aristotle said:


> 5) Reinforce trust in police and security presence on school campuses.



Ah, some brain washing; yeah that always works.



Aristotle said:


> Let security be handled by those who base their profession around such.



Bullshit. EVERYONE has the right to defend themselves and the innocent people around them from harm.



Aristotle said:


> As you can see I never once said to keep security away from schools I merely am saying do not let teachers have guns. Its an additional worry they bare amongst a host of other things.



Letting teachers carry at schools and/or others on a voluntary basis is what many have proposed, not only armed guards and more cops.

Hence the attempts to educate your lame ass, which is obviously a waste of fucking time.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 26, 2012)

idb said:


> Who's saying they want to take away all your guns?



1. Plenty of libtards have demanded a gun free society. If you havent managed to catch that bullshit, I dont have the time to spood feed you on it.

2. Owning a gun is not all that the 2A protects; it also protects the right to legally carry a gun.

3. Why do you think your feigning ignorance helps your case at all?


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 26, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...



Yeah, a 'discussion' with a pre-ordained verdict, sort of a 'kangaroo' discussion by libs for libs.

Fuck that.


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## idb (Dec 26, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Who's saying they want to take away all your guns?
> ...



There are extreme views on both sides, why seize on them as representative of the wider view?
The real discussion will be somewhere in the middle, all interested parties need to be involved.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 26, 2012)

idb said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Idb, on this topic the middle starts with the CONSTITUTION and the 2A, not an even distance between Tweedle-Dee and Tweedle-dum.


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## idb (Dec 26, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



Sure, OK, start there then.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 26, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> To those with horrible reading comprehension my views are as follows:
> 
> 1) Beef up armed security at schools. Maintain police presence around campuses along with security personnel.
> 
> ...



To those with horrible thinking comprehension, MY views on this post are as follows:

1)  For someone who wants armed security in schools, you sure do spend a lot of time bitching and moaning about how you were stupid enough to move to state and district that can't afford it because they're too busy overtaxing people to pay for the dumbest government programs known to mankind.

2)  "Teachers should really concentrate on teaching" is about as fucking stupid as the fool who, after 9/11, said about armed pilots:  "They really need to concentrate on flying that plane".  Let's review, shitbrain:  The circumstances under which EITHER a teacher or a pilot would need a gun would be because a lunatic is coming toward them, intent on killing them and everyone around them.  The pilot isn't going to get a whole hell of a lot of flying done under that circumstance, and the teacher isn't going to get a whole hell of a lot of TEACHING done under that circumstance.

NOW do you see why I treat you with the utter disdain and lack of respect reserved for gum stuck to the bottom of my shoe?  Because the stupid shit you spout manifestly demonstrates that that's where you rank.  You've EARNED "gumwad" status.

And if you're thinking, "Well, if the teacher has a gun, it's probably going to just have him thinking constantly about the gun and about the chance of being shot, and he won't be able to teach", then you should stop projecting your panty-wetting terror of guns onto other people.  If you think HAVING a weapon on hand would make him "paranoid", think how much hearing about Sandy Hook and other school shootings all the time and NOT having a weapon is going to make him paranoid.  You think THAT isn't distracting him at his job?

Moron.

3)  And whatever plan they create, you're going to piss and moan about and find fault with, until the withering contempt with which you and your kvetching are greeted forces you to backpedal and claim that you've "supported it all along, and everyone was just too stupid to understand" that you were whining and wailing about how it couldn't be afforded as a sign of your unwavering support.

Yeah, because we're all as stupid as you are.

4)  See #2.

5)  'Cause that fits RIGHT in with your sniveling about cost, which we are all now supposed to pretend we didn't see.

We saw it, you're a lying turd, but that's okay, because you're also so frigging stupid and beneath contempt that it doesn't matter whether you tell the truth or not.


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## Aristotle (Dec 26, 2012)

I see someone is as smart as a bag of rocks....This thread has become as pointless is as trying to piss in a hurricane


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 26, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > To those with horrible reading comprehension my views are as follows:
> ...



Hmmm, seems I have to spread some more ....

KUDOS on a great post!


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 26, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> I see someone is as smart as a bag of rocks....This thread has become as pointless is as trying to piss in a hurricane



Well, in that case the problem isnt with the hurricane, dumbass.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 26, 2012)

idb said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



OK, I will play your game for now:

1. Put in armed security beginning with armed guards, then allow volunteers faculty to concealed carry at school, then allow local parents of attending students to be guards also.

2. Require households that have mentally unstable people to lock up their guns if they are not carrying the guns on their person. Do not allow psychotic people on mind meds to buy guns.

3. Pass 'Good Samaritan' laws to protect those who do use force to stop bad guys and it injures another innocent or that makes some libtard parent piss their pants in public..

4. Etch a likeness of Pierce Morgan on the bottom of every school urinal to help the little tykes hit the mark better.

5. Have local parents willing to do so, stand out in front of schools to assist students with catching busses, pack their books, maintain good behavior (like preventing/breaking up fights), and give an alert to the top faculty of any approaching person that looks hinky.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 26, 2012)

Holy crap, Soledad O'Brien is fucking STUPID.  Clearly, that twat got her job for her looks, and possibly screwing someone.


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## idb (Dec 27, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



Hmmm...well I wouldn't want to be doing the negotiating but lets have a go...

1. How about allowing schools these as options? Let individual schools decide on their security and let parents take this into account when choosing the school for their kid. Schools could use this as a marketing issue when pitching to parents.

2. Require that *all* guns be locked up securely when not being transported or in use. Require all those that wish to buy guns be assessed for suitability.

3. No, any deliberate action causing death, injury or the threat of these should still be open to later scrutiny. 

4. Teach the children how to spell the names of any person they're being instructed to despise.

5. Great idea.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 27, 2012)

idb said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Of course all of this should be optional for the school districts that want to do it or not. 

I am arguing for the case of state and federal law getting ammended to allow schools to choose what they want to do and being able to take more decisive steps to protect their kids.



idb said:


> 2. Require that *all* guns be locked up securely when not being transported or in use. Require all those that wish to buy guns be assessed for suitability.



'Transported and in use' requirement does not allow one to keep AND BEAR arms, again, lets start with the 2A. Also, people should have the presumption of competence before we amend a right under 'reasonable' regulation. Having them get mentally screened forces them to prove they are mentally competent which allows for corruption and coercion, and it places an undo burden on a lot of people; think about this in comparison to voter ID laws if you need some help grasping my complaint.



idb said:


> 3. No, any deliberate action causing death, injury or the threat of these should still be open to later scrutiny.



Criminal prosecution only if malicious, so yes, any shooting should be investigated by due legal authorities if it involves the death or injury of another person, but if self defense or the defense of another person is established, they shold not be prosecuteed or subject to civil lawsuits.




idb said:


> 4. Teach the children how to spell the names of any person they're being instructed to despise.



Why bother? A picture is worth a thousand words, and in this case it would help the kids aim and urge to empty their bladders; win-win.



idb said:


> 5. Great idea.



Thanks, but these volunteers should also carry walkies, cell phones with the front office on speed dial, etc, to be able to communicate in a timely fashion.


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## idb (Dec 27, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



All this would have to be considered the immediate fix.

So now, the contentious part.

A longer term answer should be found as to *why* kids have to be locked up and guarded, in America, to protect them from other Americans.


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## koshergrl (Dec 27, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



When one doesn't see human life as valuable, one can't comprehend why it's important to protect children who are  being targeted. Progressives see life as without value; so naturally it's not a question of how best to protect the children...it's a question of 'how can we use these deaths to further our agenda?" Death is always seen as an opportunity to progressives. You won't see them arguing to stop it.


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## koshergrl (Dec 27, 2012)

idb said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...




We know why they're targeted. They're targeted because they are unguarded, and they're targeted because we teach children from the first grade that children, and indeed, humans, have no value.


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## beagle9 (Dec 27, 2012)

Walked into a store today while out and about, and a young hunter walked in to get some things before going hunting this morning. He had his son in the truck with him who was about 7 years old, and his grandmother was working in the store when she said to him " you carrying the (name?)grandson hunting today eh ?" The son replied to her ((yep)), and then she said to him "it is his first time isn't it, and he will really enjoy that ya know"?  The son said ((yep)) as he purchased about 6 bug juices for the young lad to drink on his trip while they hunted. 

This stuff was as normal in this area as going fishing, playing golf or watching football.  I had absolutely no fear of these people, and I didn't even know them, but I knew their character. I could tell they were good kids and good people, and when I left the store, and traveled down the road through the countryside, where there were four wheel drives sitting beside the roads in many places, the occupants were hunting for that next big buck.  Now what is happening in the world of Big Brother Mayor Bloomburg and company, well God only knows... 

Now a-days why we have all these idiots doing such horrific idiotic things like shooting people down like dogs, ummmm well it is just simply beyond ones imagination or comprehension anymore, especially coming from a place like the one where I have come from & had grew up in. I just don't understand it really, but then again I do, because I ain't blind, deaf or dumb in life.

Something is bad wrong with our nations society at large in these areas, but people are living in denial big time as to what has created all of this bad to date.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 28, 2012)

idb said:


> All this would have to be considered the immediate fix.
> 
> So now, the contentious part.
> 
> A longer term answer should be found as to *why* kids have to be locked up and guarded, in America, to protect them from other Americans.



The kids are locked up so the school districts can get their 'fair share' of funding, as has been the case for a long time.

The guards are there for what guards are anywhere for: to ward off bad guys.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 28, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



They tend to focus on the value of the aggregate of humanity, the greatest good for the greatest in number kind of thing. Specific individuals are just a anaecdote, sort of the reverse of Stalins quote.


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## JimBowie1958 (Dec 28, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Walked into a store today while out and about, and a young hunter walked in to get some things before going hunting this morning. He had his son in the truck with him who was about 7 years old, and his grandmother was working in the store when she said to him " you carrying the (name?)grandson hunting today eh ?" The son replied to her ((yep)), and then she said to him "it is his first time isn't it, and he will really enjoy that ya know"?  The son said ((yep)) as he purchased about 6 bug juices for the young lad to drink on his trip while they hunted.
> 
> This stuff was as normal in this area as going fishing, playing golf or watching football.  I had absolutely no fear of these people, and I didn't even know them, but I knew their character. I could tell they were good kids and good people, and when I left the store, and traveled down the road through the countryside, where there were four wheel drives sitting beside the roads in many places, meanwhile the occupants were hunting for that next big buck.  Now what is happening in the world of Big Brother Mayor Bloomburg and company, well God only knows...
> 
> ...



Great post.

If you could remove Democrat controled cities from the stats regarding Americas murder rate and violent crime rate, we would have a lower crime rate than any European country.


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## idb (Dec 28, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Who the hell are you talking about?


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## idb (Dec 28, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



I'm just curious where it says in the school curriculum that children and humans have no value?
Can you quote it for me please?
Why are there no protests against this outrageous topic?


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## PaulS1950 (Dec 28, 2012)

The most outrageous thing in this topic is that we don't already have armed guards ready for the day schools re-open. Right behind that is that money is considered a reason to leave our kids unprotected. 

Obama doesn't care about what goes on in our schools except that it a photo-op and a way to further his and his party's anti-gun rhetoric. His kids go to school in a building protected by 12 armed guards plus the secret service assigned to watch over his own kids. He tells us there isn't enough money to protect our children? Then let us protect them!


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## idb (Dec 28, 2012)

PaulS1950 said:


> The most outrageous thing in this topic is that we don't already have armed guards ready for the day schools re-open. Right behind that is that money is considered a reason to leave our kids unprotected.
> 
> Obama doesn't care about what goes on in our schools except that it a photo-op and a way to further his and his party's anti-gun rhetoric. His kids go to school in a building protected by 12 armed guards plus the secret service assigned to watch over his own kids. He tells us there isn't enough money to protect our children? Then let us protect them!



When did he say that there isn't enough money to protect the children?


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## beagle9 (Dec 28, 2012)

If a democrat says it, that is the same as Obama and company saying it...YOU KNOW THAT IS RIGHT DON'T CHA?


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## idb (Dec 28, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> If a democrat says it, that is the same as Obama and company saying it...YOU KNOW THAT IS RIGHT DON'T CHA?



Ah, in that case Obama is an uncaring, baby killing bastard.


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## beagle9 (Dec 28, 2012)

idb said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > If a democrat says it, that is the same as Obama and company saying it...YOU KNOW THAT IS RIGHT DON'T CHA?
> ...


Didn't know the democrats said that....wow .....Oh  you just did didn't jaah?


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## Katzndogz (Dec 28, 2012)

Once claim that can't be made anymore.   Gunmen do walk into police stations and start shooting.    They just don't keep it up for long.

Gunman 'shoots three police officers in New Jersey' | News.com.au


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## Foxfyre (Dec 28, 2012)

idb said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > If a democrat says it, that is the same as Obama and company saying it...YOU KNOW THAT IS RIGHT DON'T CHA?
> ...



Don't you agree that it IS a matter of priorities though?  The defense appropriations bill just signed into law contained billions of dollars of pork for this or that totally unrelated to national defense and  ALL of it far less critical than protecting our school children.

So wouldn't you think somebody who put the children first would have mentioned that all those billions might have been spent differently?  Maybe for school security?

But if not, then yes, let us protect our own kids.


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## beagle9 (Dec 28, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...


Yes you would have thought that he would have acknowledged a change in his priorities after such a situation, by making some changes to any appropriations bill, that to include next the new school security monies for the children and teachers safety. No mention of any such thing eh? Figures....

Personal priorities & responsibilities is quite a tall order even for the President and his hinchman these days in America, so hey we get what we get and that is that in America now.

Let us protect our kids ? The government took that right from us years ago, and they ain't given it back, or at least without a fight they won't, because they will cling to their power with all their might now, and they will fight us on every issue and at every turn until they get us where they want us finally.


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## Aristotle (Jan 1, 2013)

I am still waiting for demonstrable evidence arming teachers saves lives


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## Foxfyre (Jan 1, 2013)

Aristotle said:


> I am still waiting for demonstrable evidence arming teachers saves lives



Well we don't have any history of situations in which there have been mass shootings of school children in schools in which some of the teachers are armed.

We do have a history of situations in which there have been mass shootings of school children in gun free schools.


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## beagle9 (Jan 1, 2013)

Aristotle said:


> I am still waiting for demonstrable evidence arming teachers saves lives


Oh so you are waiting for the next massacre attempt, in which if the teachers are armed and successful at stopping the attacker, then you will say "hey you all were right and I was wrong"?

How about lets just put security measures in place in the ways that each state see's it as nessesary, and this in hopes that it will keep another massacre from ever happening again ?


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## Dr Grump (Jan 1, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > I am still waiting for demonstrable evidence arming teachers saves lives
> ...



Home of the brave and land of the free indeed...


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## Dr Grump (Jan 1, 2013)

beagle9 said:


> [
> How about lets just put security measures in place in the ways that each state see's it as nessesary, and this in hopes that it will keep another massacre from ever happening again ?



How about reasonable gun controls laws and the banning of certain firearms, and licensing?


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## Aristotle (Jan 1, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > I am still waiting for demonstrable evidence arming teachers saves lives
> ...



According to CDC school shootings are less than 2% in the US. Hence my challenge


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## Foxfyre (Jan 1, 2013)

Dr Grump said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Yes.  Just like drugs, controlling, regulation, and banning has worked so well to keep guns out of the hands of gang members and other hoodlums.

How about we try character, common sense, and deterrant for a change?


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## Aristotle (Jan 1, 2013)

beagle9 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > I am still waiting for demonstrable evidence arming teachers saves lives
> ...



No. Just waiting on how teachers with ballistic vest and sidearm saves lives as oppose to cops and campus security.


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## beagle9 (Jan 1, 2013)

Dr Grump said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...


So what do you want maybe the opposite ? Home of the controlled by dictatorship or rule, and next the land of the oppressed under such control and rule ? How's about we go back and investigate how we got to where we are, and then turn back the situation before it is to late, if it isn't already to late ?


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## Foxfyre (Jan 1, 2013)

The more restrictive the rules and regs are, the bigger the market for a flourishing black market.   And the only ones who will obey the law are those we have no reason to fear.


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## Dr Grump (Jan 1, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



Guns and drugs are two different beasts. Most other western countries have it down pat as far as guns are concerned. Not so much drugs...


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## beagle9 (Jan 1, 2013)

Aristotle said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...


Either or could be just as effective, and the teachers wouldnot be sattled with a vest, 44 magnum and such, otherwise looking like some kind of soldier in the classroom, but instead would be carrying concealed (looking just as innocent and proffesional as they always did) without any student knowing this, and only the ones being capable of doing this would be accepted as such.

You see how you are with your spin and messed up way of thinking, where as you try and manipulate the situation to your way of thinking, but we are alot smarter than you think that we are in this nation.


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## beagle9 (Jan 1, 2013)

Dr Grump said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...


You can always move to another nation if they are so much smarter and better than we are here... Infact if all libs would do this for whom think like the new powerful libs do these days (whom I think has messed this nation up), we might just have a chance again in this nation.


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## JimBowie1958 (Jan 1, 2013)

beagle9 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



Teachers would be at the scene from the git-go, while with the cops, its like they say 'When seconds matter, the cops are minutes away.'

In that given extra one or two or more minutes, how many lives might be saved?


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## beagle9 (Jan 1, 2013)

JimBowie1958 said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...


Yep, and in the meantime, I don't have a problem about going after the guns that the bad guy's have..


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## Dr Grump (Jan 2, 2013)

beagle9 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Fortunately I do live in another country - and yes, overall, I think it is a better and smarter country (than most cons on this board anyway). If all the libs left your country you'd be in living in Germany circa 1933...good luck with that..


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## elvis (Jan 2, 2013)

Dr Grump said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



Um.... No.


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## jillian (Jan 2, 2013)

beagle9 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



yes... because there's no need to address any of our problems. love it or leave it! what a stupid "rettort". i thought that idiocy died out in the 60's.


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## 9thIDdoc (Jan 2, 2013)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTjM4_ZeVe4]Walkin&#39; On The Fightin&#39; Side Of Me - YouTube[/ame]


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 2, 2013)

JimBowie1958 said:


> And you are a delusional lying bitch who thinks he speaks for all godamn humanity.
> 
> Fuck off Starkey you fucking lying peice of shit.



Jakematters is paid by the Soros group to post DNC propaganda. He can't be reasoned with, nor will he ever post anything of value. He is a demagogue, nothing more.


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## koshergrl (Jan 2, 2013)

idb said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



I used the term "progressives" multiple times in that post.


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## Koios (Jan 2, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Yes; but only once in the proper noun form. (upper case P.)  Ergo the noun/adjective confusion.


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## Crackerjack (Jan 2, 2013)

Dr Grump said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...


You say that as though your opinion on the matter should mean something.


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## Dr Grump (Jan 2, 2013)

Crackerjack said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



And you do as if yours does...shrug...


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## Crackerjack (Jan 2, 2013)

Dr Grump said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...


I'm from here, I live here, and I'm not a raging hoplophobe.

See the difference yet?


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Jan 2, 2013)

Sorry


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## idb (Jan 2, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Just so I understand, are you saying that *all* progressives see human life as without value?
That *all* progressives are happy when they see children die?
Is that what you're saying?


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## JimBowie1958 (Jan 2, 2013)

idb said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



It is obvious she is speaking of the general Progressive movement and its ideologues.

Why do some people think that posing as though they were dense really accomplishes anything useful?


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## Cecilie1200 (Jan 2, 2013)

JimBowie1958 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



1)  Because they have the same effect on a serious discussion or debate as the emergency brakes do on a tractor-trailer when they clamp down.

2)  Because enough of that sort of thing has the same effect on the people in the discussion/debate as slamming their heads into a brick wall repeatedly.

You just have to look at what they're REALLY trying to accomplish with their posts.


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## koshergrl (Jan 3, 2013)

Because they're progressives. As such, they feel they are superior to all, while at the same time blatantly expose themselves as painfully ignorant and narrow minded.


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## Dr Grump (Jan 3, 2013)

Crackerjack said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



I don't hate guns....

Doesn't matter if you are from the US. Your opinion is just as irrelevant as mine. Your political system makes it so...shrug...


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## koshergrl (Jan 3, 2013)

No, American opinion is relevant.

Non-American; nope. Doesn't matter.


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## Dr Grump (Jan 3, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> No, American opinion is relevant.
> 
> Non-American; nope. Doesn't matter.



I wish it was so. For your sake.

You and I can opine on anything going on in your country and it will have zero effect - whether I hold a US passport or you do...


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## Wicked Jester (Jan 3, 2013)

MarcATL said:


> The much needed discussion on gun-control.
> 
> Yes?
> 
> ...


Soooooooooooo, there were these types of atrocities back in the cowboy days?

How about we address the REAL problems?

The problem of the beloved liberal view that every child gets a trophy....The problem of the XBOX video game generation, of whom are the primary perpetrators of these crimes....The problem of broken homes, baby momma drama, and fathers who abandon their children......The problem of inept parents who use video games, TV, and the internet as pacifiers and baby sitters instead of actually parenting.....The problem of morals in this country being pissed down the toilet due to liberal indoctrination and views......The problem of inept teachers and administrators who are too stupid, unwilling, or uncaring to recognize and report broken minds of children and teens.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jan 3, 2013)

Dr Grump said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



No the reason you opinion is irrelevant is that you don't live here and you don't know anything about this country, but only what you allowed to read about us. As I said you don't have a vested interest in America we do. An unconstitutional law doesn't effect you but it does us.


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## idb (Jan 3, 2013)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



Once again, you don't understand what was said.
The good doctor is saying that his opinion has as much effect as yours on US politics; as much as a person from the Congo; as much as a three-legged camel from the Nullarbor; as much as a chicken from.........
It doesn't matter what you say or where you live, you can't change a thing.


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## Crackerjack (Jan 3, 2013)

Dr Grump said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...


A phobia is a fear, doctor.  I'm sure you know it and are just avoiding it.  Recognizing you have a problem is the first step in solving it.

Your opinion is irrelevant because this isn't your country.  Mine is relevant because it is my country.  Do I need to make it any simpler?


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## jillian (Jan 3, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> No, American opinion is relevant.
> 
> Non-American; nope. Doesn't matter.



read that over, allie?

doesn't that seem absurd to you?

saying 'we're the greatest country on earth' and saying the opinion of anyone not in this country doesn't matter on the subject, seems a little like saying 'i'm the most beautiful person in the world and i don't care what anyone else says'. 

see how that works?


----------



## jillian (Jan 3, 2013)

Crackerjack said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



i know you felt awfully pithy when you wrote that, but any normal person knows that what the  US does has an effect on other places in the world,

do i need to make it any simpler for you?


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## Crackerjack (Jan 3, 2013)

jillian said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...


Our domestic firearms policy has little, if any, effect on the rest of the world.  Thanks for playing, hon.


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## jillian (Jan 3, 2013)

Crackerjack said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



damn, you're scary stupid.


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## Crackerjack (Jan 3, 2013)

jillian said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...


Too bad you didn't get the chance to ban me before you were escorted out of the mod shack, ain't it?


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

idb said:


> Just so I understand, are you saying that *all* progressives see human life as without value?
> That *all* progressives are happy when they see children die?
> Is that what you're saying?



Isn't the basis of leftism a general hatred for your fellow man? Isn't the goal of the left to crush the human spirit, ensnare and enslave the spark of life in a quagmire of authoritarian regimentation and mindless bureaucracy?  Don't you of the left seek to sap the color from life in exchange for the drab gray conformity to trends and ideas fed to the mindless masses via Hollywood and the party press?


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> Because they're progressives. As such, they feel they are superior to all, while at the same time blatantly expose themselves as painfully ignorant and narrow minded.


----------



## Wicked Jester (Jan 3, 2013)

jillian said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...


So, how does our domestic firearms policy effect the rest of the world, dear?

Or, how does Norways or Swedens, or any other countries firearm laws effect this great country?

What has Chicago's strict gun laws done to the citizens of that city?


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

idb said:


> Once again, you don't understand what was said.
> The good doctor is saying that his opinion has as much effect as yours on US politics; as much as a person from the Congo; as much as a three-legged camel from the Nullarbor; as much as a chicken from.........
> It doesn't matter what you say or where you live, you can't change a thing.



Yet the Sheep Shagger is once again wrong; as he has NO VOTE; where we Americans do.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

Crackerjack said:


> Too bad you didn't get the chance to ban me before you were escorted out of the mod shack, ain't it?



This is about to kill me, BUT...

Jillian was 100% fair and even handed as a mod. She and I cannot stand each other, but she never took any action that was unwarranted, to the best of my knowledge.


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## koshergrl (Jan 3, 2013)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



Yeah, well he's a proven dolt. His opinion certainly has no effect on anyone anywhere, it's true.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> So, how does our domestic firearms policy effect the rest of the world, dear?
> 
> Or, how does Norways or Swedens, or any other countries firearm laws effect this great country?
> 
> What has Chicago's strict gun laws done to the citizens of that city?



Obviously it doesn't.

Jillian recites a mantra, with no grasp at all what the words mean.

"Guns Bahhhhd, Guns Bahhhhd, Guns Bahhhhd,"


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## koshergrl (Jan 3, 2013)

Her view is warped by the fact that in the city, most gun *owners* are moronic criminals who can't even be trusted to target the correct criminals in drive-bys, but instead hit innocent by standers and luckless joes strolling along looking for a twenny bag.


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## Koios (Jan 3, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



Not much until they are stopped at a border crossing to get in and out of Chicago.  Noodle on that; you might have epiphany.


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## Wicked Jester (Jan 3, 2013)

Koios said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...


Yeah, that's the answer......Just put up a big fucking wall around the city and jack up anybody trying to enter.......All to hell with dealing with the real issues causing the violence.

No wonder libs were so disapointed when the Berlin wall came tumbling down.

LMAO!


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

Koios said:


> Not much until they are stopped at a border crossing to get in and out of Chicago.  Noodle on that; you might have epiphany.



Ah, the dream of the left; internal passports and travel papers. Random searches on the streets. KGB (DHS) agents ensuring that the police keep a tight leash on the ruled populace.


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## Koios (Jan 3, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Not much until they are stopped at a border crossing to get in and out of Chicago.  Noodle on that; you might have epiphany.
> ...



Astonishing. (stupidity)


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## Koios (Jan 3, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...



Went over your head, too?  Knock me over with a feather!

The point is, neither city- nor state-level bans / regs have much impact.  Anyone with the resources and desire to buy an expensive fire arm can easily drive to where they can buy one.

Get real, or don't.  Your call.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

Koios said:


> Astonishing. (stupidity)



Anyone wanting to know what the end game for you of the left is, need only look to North Korea or the Khmer Rouge.

Further, it was you who brought up the dream of check points into (and out of) Chicago. Come on, the police state is the only possible outcome to leftist policy. It's what the left yearns for, the opportunity to have to jackboot of the state on the neck of their neighbor.


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## Wicked Jester (Jan 3, 2013)

Koios said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...


Nothing went over my head, Jethro.....You advocate what amounts to a police state, where citizens must pass through check points before entering their city.....Where they are jacked up and searched for "contraband".....Aaaaaaaaah, the woderful world of communism is such an appealing thought in a free country, eh?

How about we deal with the real issues that are causing the problems?

They sure as hell have nothing to do with limiting citizens rights to keep and bear arms.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

Koios said:


> Went over your head, too?  Knock me over with a feather!
> 
> The point is, neither city- nor state-level bans / regs have much impact.  Anyone with the resources and desire to buy an expensive fire arm can easily drive to where they can buy one.
> 
> Get real, or don't.  Your call.



Why would they do that? Any back ally in Chicago will do. 

You of the left are "victims rights advocates!" You advocate the right of people to be victims. We promote the right of people to defend themselves from the predators you support.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> Nothing went over my head, Jethro.....You advocate what amounts to a police state, where citizens must pass through check points before entering their city.....Where they are jacked up and searched for "contraband".....Aaaaaaaaah, the woderful world of communism is such an appealing thought in a free country, eh?
> 
> How about we deal with the real issues that are causing the problems?
> 
> They sure as hell have nothing to do with limiting citizens rights to keep and bear arms.



He thought he was being snarky, but failed to grasp that satire only works when it differs from the actual agenda.


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 3, 2013)

I still contend that I do not want a group that I can't trust to not sexually abuse my child nor educate them properly as they are paid to do having guns around my kids.

And as a practical matter have any of you "arm teacher" fools stopped to consider what happens the next time there is a shooting, and let's face it there WILL be a next time no matter what we do, and half a dozen teachers are running around with guns when the cops show up? Someone will be shot by a well meaning shooter, its inevitable.

IF we are going to consider arming some teachers, those teachers ought absolutely be deputized and well known to the local police , and subject to much more scrutiny than teachers currently are.

I also advocate tighter standards on who we hire as our police , so it's not just teachers.


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## Koios (Jan 3, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...



Your reading comprehesion is a credit to your intelligence (lack of)


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## Wicked Jester (Jan 3, 2013)

Koios said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...


Your attempts to try and walk back what you advocate is comical.....You said what you said, no changing it.

Fact of the matter is, tighter gun laws will do absolutely nothing.....We are in the midst of watching what is no doubt this country's worst generation coming of age, who are the prime perpetrators of these crimes......We are seeing the effects of the X-BOX generation coming of age.......We are seeing the effects of baby mama drama, absentee fathers, and parents who use video games, the internet and TV as pacifiers, instead of actually parenting.....We are seeing the effects of the "every child gets a trophy, whether they deserve it or not" mantra that the liberal left spouts......We are seeing the effects of lousy teachers and school administrators who are too stupid to recognize children with broken minds, or are either to affraid or ignorant to report their concerns.....We are seeing the effects of fully eroding morals in this country, no doubt championed by left wing liberals....We are seeing effects of crap doctors who prefer to just medicate the shit out of broken minded children, instead of trying to get to the root of of the problems. It's just easier that way, and far more profitable.


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 3, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...



you know , that's a pretty good post there except for the part where you try to imply that it all liberals fault.

plenty of shitty conservative parents out there to. 

Not every thing has to be a left or right issue; and this one of them that isn't.


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## Jimmy_Jam (Jan 3, 2013)

Arming teachers. Moronic.

It would make far more sense, and probably be less expensive, to have armed security in our schools. I don't like that either, but it beats the hell out of arming teachers. I've worked with teachers and prospective teachers for years. Most of them possess neither the willingness nor the inclination for such a responsibility. They are teachers of children, and most have the temperament that accompanies the occupation. As solutions go it has zero practicality.


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## Wicked Jester (Jan 3, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...


It's the fault of all, no matter the politics.....But the lack of morals, sense of entitlement, and the BS every child gets a trophy crap are all championed by the left, and are 3 of the main root causes as to this generations problems.


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## Zoom (Jan 3, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Not much until they are stopped at a border crossing to get in and out of Chicago.  Noodle on that; you might have epiphany.
> ...



Show us your papers is. Left idea in Arizona?


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## Wicked Jester (Jan 3, 2013)

Jimmy_Jam said:


> Arming teachers. Moronic.
> 
> It would make far more sense, and probably be less expensive, to have armed security in our schools. I don't like that either, but it beats the hell out of arming teachers. I've worked with teachers and prospective teachers for years. Most of them possess neither the willingness nor the inclination for such a responsibility. They are teachers of children, and most have the temperament that accompanies the occupation. As solutions go it has zero practicality.


Armed security is the way to go.....But the real key is adressing the core problems that cause these tragedies.....Restricting gun ownership will do absolutely nothing at all.


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 3, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> JustTheFacts said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...



i know plenty of conservative people who use the tv as a baby sitter, have no morals ( for themselves anyway, though they insist that others have morals) , and yes are of that "all kids should get a trophy" mindset.

I just honestly believe we have a better chance at solving some of our countries problems if we stop blaming "the left" or "the right" for everything.

The truth is, there are idiots on both sides and some sane people from both sides are going to have to step up and say "enough of this bullshit, yes my side has idiots just like yours does, let's ignore both groups and get to work solving our ails."

Anything less is just wasting our time and energy.


----------



## Koios (Jan 3, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...



It was not advocating Chicago sovereignty, nor building a wall around it.  It merely pointed out the folly of thinking local gun restrictions are very restrictive in a practical sense.

If you need to read something else into it to make a fucking point, then you have no point, in opposition.  So let it go.


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## Wicked Jester (Jan 3, 2013)

Koios said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...


When you decide to get snarky with your retorts, you should fully expect to have it thrown back in your face. 

As the late, great Richard Pryor said, "some white boys don't play dat chit".


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## Jimmy_Jam (Jan 3, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> Jimmy_Jam said:
> 
> 
> > Arming teachers. Moronic.
> ...



Perhaps, but I have yet to see where 2nd Amendment interpretation or gun ownership issues have anything to do with whether or not we arm teachers. Why is it even being discussed? That this is a ridiculous solution has little or nothing to do with one's stance on stricter gun control. It merely requires that one be completely out of touch.


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## Koios (Jan 3, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...



I don't suffer idiots, well.  So if you're an idiot (you are) maybe kibitz with someone else?

Just a thought.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

Zoom said:


> Show us your papers is. Left idea in Arizona?



We all have to show ID when pulled over - adding Mexican nationals to the rules applied to Americans is not exactly "stopping people at random."

Try again.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

Koios said:


> It was not advocating Chicago sovereignty, nor building a wall around it.  It merely pointed out the folly of thinking local gun restrictions are very restrictive in a practical sense.



You thought you were being witty, but merely demonstrated your complete lack of wit by advocating what your party readily advocates.

It ain't satire if it's a legitimate program, Comrade.



> If you need to read something else into it to make a fucking point, then you have no point, in opposition.  So let it go.



The point, fucking or otherwise is that your suggestion for internal travel documents and KGB checkpoints is entirely consistent with the left, American and otherwise.

Y'all are the Pol Pot brain trust, after all....


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## Foxfyre (Jan 3, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> Jimmy_Jam said:
> 
> 
> > Arming teachers. Moronic.
> ...



The thing is, the Sandy Hook Elementary massacre has turned up the heat on gun control again.  But I think I read somewhere that no assault weapons were used in that incident?  It was two hand guns the shooter took into the school and apparently he paused in the shooting to reload one or both of those hand guns.  The hand guns were powerful and lethal--favored by law enforcement officers--and the shooter used hollow point bullets that inflict maximum damage.  But the fact that the 20 children and 6 adults were all killed suggests multiple wounds in most or all.

The police did not have time to get there in time to stop it.  An armed security guard or two could easily have been taken out by a proficient and determined murderer.   But if a half dozen teachers in that school had been armed, does anybody believe that the shooter would have been able to commit all that carnage before somebody took him out?

Again nobody is suggesting that teachers be intentionally armed.  But if the word got out that teachers are allowed to be armed, and there are an unknown number of weapons accessible to the teachers in the schools, there is a high likelihood that the mass murderers would go elsewhere to commit their mayhem.   For sure keep the rule to be no tolerance for weapons for the students.  That makes sense.

But it also makes sense to stop advertising schools as gun free zones and making them easy pickings for madmen intent on committing violence.


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## Wicked Jester (Jan 3, 2013)

Jimmy_Jam said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > Jimmy_Jam said:
> ...


As I said, armed security is the way to go. Preferably retired military or law enforcement....No way do I want teachers or administrators armed. Christ, so many of them don't have the ability to give their students a proper education, let alone be trusted with a gun.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 3, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> Jimmy_Jam said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...



And yet we trust them with the hearts, minds, and personal safety of our children.

Edit:  If we can't trust them with the proper and safe use of a firearm, why in the world would we trust them with our most precious loved ones?  I am not opposed to armed security in the schools, but realistically we cannot afford enough armed security to ensure the safety of the children without pulling more critical funding from the schools necessary to educate them.  So how about a compromise.  Armed security PLUS allow the teachers ability to defend themselves and the kids?


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 3, 2013)

> *no assault weapons *



time out, can we clarify here?

There is no such thing as an assault weapon. the term is assault rifle. And it has a specif definition. And that definition is not one given by politicians.

The US Army defines an assault rifle as any weapon which

uses a cartridge larger than a pistol but smaller than a platoon sized weapon

has a selective fire rate

has an overall lenght of at least 18"

has an effective range of 300 yards

is FULLY automatic

Now you'll notice a few things no doubt.

Magazine size is irrelevant, as is look scary.

But the big one is, FULLY automatic. Meaning the civilian version of the AR-15 is quite simply NOT an assault rifle.

carry on


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 3, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > Jimmy_Jam said:
> ...




Have you ever been in battle? I have and let me tell you the fog of war is real.  The last thing a cop or other armed security wants or needs is some "helpful" teacher opening fire while they are trying to determine and neutralize the real threat.

That doesn't even address the absolute fact that 90% of elementary teachers are females who would not carry if they could. That's just a fact. Sandy Hook would have happened exactly the way it did if every one of those ladies would have had the option to carry a weapon if they chose, b/c they wouldn't have chose to.

as for the expense, put a police officer in every school. heck we already do that here.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 3, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...



About 15 to 20 percent or more concealed carry permits are issued to women nationwide and that percentage is steadily increasing.  And it is a rare school these days in which ALL the teachers are women.   If no teacher chooses to carry or have access to a weapon that's fine.  That should be his or her prerogative.

All I am suggesting is that, with proper training and certification, that we allow teachers to protect themselves and the children if they choose to do so.  If the security guard handles the problem, that's great.  But if the shooter gets past the guard. . . .

Or perhaps you think the shooter should be able to stand there shooting first graders one after the other, stopping to reload, resume shooting and the school staff be helpless to do anything about it?


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


> Have you ever been in battle? I have and let me tell you the fog of war is real.  The last thing a cop or other armed security wants or needs is some "helpful" teacher opening fire while they are trying to determine and neutralize the real threat.
> 
> That doesn't even address the absolute fact that 90% of elementary teachers are females who would not carry if they could. That's just a fact. Sandy Hook would have happened exactly the way it did if every one of those ladies would have had the option to carry a weapon if they chose, b/c they wouldn't have chose to.
> 
> as for the expense, put a police officer in every school. heck we already do that here.



The facts say otherwise.

The old saw is; "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."

{A lone, heroic college student grabs a gun out of his backpack to repel and kill home invaders, saving his friends from rape and murder! }

Student shoots home invader - saves 10 lives... | GunsSaveLives.net Message Board

The job of the police is to arrest suspects AFTER a crime is committed. Police will never protect anyone, even if some of them are not just criminals themselves. The ONLY defense the citizenry has from predators is their own arms and those of their neighbors.


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## Wicked Jester (Jan 3, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > Jimmy_Jam said:
> ...


One of the main problems with arming the teachers is the collateral damage aspect....When faced with a situation of an armed attacker, there is no guarantee that the teacher/teachers would remain cool under fire, and possibly start sending rounds down range all over the place, possibly killing or wounding innocents....That kind of discipline takes a huge amount of time to attain, along with repititous training. The cost and continual time to train them would be astronomical, particularly considering that they would have to continually attend refresher training.....Police and military are trained for it, and spend vasts amounts of time (and money) in refresher training.

Another problem is with the arriving officers on scene....In what would no doubt be a chaotic situation, the officers may not have all the info on who the shooter is, what he/she is wearing, what type of weapon, etc.....They may encounter that teacher holding a gun and shoot them dead, or if it's a plain clothed detective arriving on scene, the teacher just may shoot him/her dead.

I just don't see arming teachers or administrators.....It's got ugly written all over it.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> One of the main problems with arming the teachers is the collateral damage aspect....When faced with a situation of an armed attacker, there is no guarantee that the teacher/teachers would remain cool under fire, and possibly start sending rounds down range all over the place, possibly killing or wounding innocents....That kind of discipline takes a huge amount of time to attain, along with repititous training. The cost and continual time to train them would be astronomical, particularly considering that they would have to continually attend refresher training.....Police and military are trained for it, and spend vasts amounts of time (and money) in refresher training.
> 
> Another problem is with the arriving officers on scene....In what would no doubt be a chaotic situation, the officers may not have all the info on who the shooter is, what he/she is wearing, what type of weapon, etc.....They may encounter that teacher holding a gun and shoot them dead, or if it's a plain clothed detective arriving on scene, the teacher just may shoot him/her dead.
> 
> I just don't see arming teachers or administrators.....It's got ugly written all over it.



{    At 8 a.m. on Oct. 1, Luke Woodham, 16, bookish and overweight, drove a white Chevy Corsica up to his high school. That was already a sign of trouble: the young man had poor vision and was driven to school every day by his mother. But three hours earlier that morning, Mary Ann Woodham, 50, had been stabbed to death with a butcher knife in the home she shared with her son.

    Luke Woodham walked into Pearl Highs commons, an enclosure created by the schools buildings. He then took a .30-.30 rifle from beneath his blue trench coat and opened fire, wounding seven schoolmates and killing two, Lydia Kaye Dew, 17, and Christina Menefee, 16, a girl he once dated.

    Roy Balentine, the principal, dashed out of his office when he heard the first shots.

    I ran out to see if something possibly malfunctioned, he said. I was hoping thats what it was, but I knew it sounded like gunshots.

    He saw Woodham, about 15 or 20 feet away, wearing a big, blue coat and holding a rifle. Balentine dangled both arms to show how Woodham held the rifle low out in front of him.

    Fearing Woodham would come for him next, Balentine ran to his office to call the police. As he dialed, more shots rang out. More students fell.

    Methodically Woodham began moving through the commons, shooting his victims as students and teachers hid or fled screaming. One of those hit was Lydia Dew, 17, killed with a bullet in the back.

    He was so cool and calm. I saw him shoot a kid, and he ejected the shell, says assistant principal Joel Myrick. He was walking along, thumbing fresh rounds into the side port of the rifle.

    Minutes later, Assistant Principal Joel Myrick chased Woodham down outside the school, held him at bay with a Colt .45-caliber automatic pistol he kept in his truck in the school parking lot. He forced Woodham to the ground and put his foot on the youths neck.

    I think hes a coward, Myrick said. I had my weapon pointed at his face, and he didnt want to die.}

How an Assistant Principal With a Gun Stopped a School Shooter

It could have been Sandy Hook, but an armed citizen put a stop to it.


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## Wicked Jester (Jan 3, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > One of the main problems with arming the teachers is the collateral damage aspect....When faced with a situation of an armed attacker, there is no guarantee that the teacher/teachers would remain cool under fire, and possibly start sending rounds down range all over the place, possibly killing or wounding innocents....That kind of discipline takes a huge amount of time to attain, along with repititous training. The cost and continual time to train them would be astronomical, particularly considering that they would have to continually attend refresher training.....Police and military are trained for it, and spend vasts amounts of time (and money) in refresher training.
> ...


Just as armed security could put a stop to it, possibly even before the carnage began.

I just don't see arming teachers. It's too risky a proposition.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 3, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...



At Sandy Hook, the gunman took out 20 six and seven-year-olds and six adults before turning the gun on himself.  Do you honestly think the collateral damage would have been worse if a teacher or administrator had access to a weapon and had used it on that gunman?   I will take my chances with a stray or erroneously fired bullet any day before I would think that a heavily armed and unchallenged madman would be less dangerous.


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## Wicked Jester (Jan 3, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...


It would be far more prudent to have fully armed and trained security to deal with the situation, possibly before the gunman is even able to squeeze off a round.

Bottom line, he should have never gotten through the front door, which is exactly the path he took.......Which begs another question, why are people allowed to just walk freely into a school after classes have begun?.....Armed security and controlled access is far more desirable then arming teachers who may not have the capability to maintain their cool under pressure, and make the situation even worse.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> Just as armed security could put a stop to it, possibly even before the carnage began.
> 
> I just don't see arming teachers. It's too risky a proposition.



I favor armed security guards. But the fact is that armed school personnel can and has saved lives.


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## Wicked Jester (Jan 3, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > Just as armed security could put a stop to it, possibly even before the carnage began.
> ...


Not disagreeing with that.......I just don't see arming thousands of teachers across the nation.

Good debate though, on a very interesting and important subject.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 3, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...



Maybe so, but the front door was LOCKED when he smashed the glass to get in.  There is a limit to how secure the locks must be from the inside before the locks themselves are a danger to children who need to get OUT of the building for whatever reason.

So yes, a security guard who happened to be in that hallway at the precise time the gunman smashed the glass and entered might have been able to stop him on the spot.  But he would have had to be in that hallways at that precise time.  Had he been patrolling elsewhere in the school. . . .different story.   Or if the gunman had come through a different door or through a window.

Again I am not opposed to there being security.  But I also am realistic about taking money away from education to ensure that there is sufficient security against all possible harm.  And how sensible and realistic and inexpensive it would be simply to allow the teachers to protect themselves and the children if they qualified and were willing to do so.

I know at least four teachers who are qualified and who would be willing to do so.  Probably you do too.


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## Dr Grump (Jan 3, 2013)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



I could literally write thousands of pages of what I know about your country. Maybe 10s of 1000s...

See what IDB said...otherwise you are missing the point.

Absolutely I have a vested interest in the US. Once again, I wish it wasn't true..


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## Dr Grump (Jan 3, 2013)

Crackerjack said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



I don't have a fear of guns.

No, what you need to understand the context of what I'm saying.


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## Dr Grump (Jan 3, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Not much until they are stopped at a border crossing to get in and out of Chicago.  Noodle on that; you might have epiphany.
> ...



You are describing almost every right-wing dictatorship that has ever been...and Communist one too, to be fair.


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## Dr Grump (Jan 3, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...



That's a huge leap - from having checks and balances in place with regard to firearms, then to a police state...


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## Dr Grump (Jan 3, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> Fact of the matter is, tighter gun laws will do absolutely nothing.....We are in the midst of watching what is no doubt this country's worst generation coming of age, who are the prime perpetrators of these crimes......We are seeing the effects of the X-BOX generation coming of age.......We are seeing the effects of baby mama drama, absentee fathers, and parents who use video games, the internet and TV as pacifiers, instead of actually parenting.....We are seeing the effects of the "every child gets a trophy, whether they deserve it or not" mantra that the liberal left spouts......We are seeing the effects of lousy teachers and school administrators who are too stupid to recognize children with broken minds, or are either to affraid or ignorant to report their concerns.....We are seeing the effects of fully eroding morals in this country, no doubt championed by left wing liberals....We are seeing effects of crap doctors who prefer to just medicate the shit out of broken minded children, instead of trying to get to the root of of the problems. It's just easier that way, and far more profitable.



How do you know if tighter guns laws will not do anything? 

As for the rest of your rant, that is nothing but unproven hyperbole...


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## Dr Grump (Jan 3, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > Jimmy_Jam said:
> ...



Sometimes I think you guys seriously want to live in a place like Israel. You guys are advocating armed guards in schools? Seriously? I despair for the way your society is going.


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## Crackerjack (Jan 3, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > Too bad you didn't get the chance to ban me before you were escorted out of the mod shack, ain't it?
> ...


Some of us have better knowledge.


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## Dr Grump (Jan 3, 2013)

crackerjack said:


> uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > crackerjack said:
> ...



bs...


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## Crackerjack (Jan 3, 2013)

Dr Grump said:


> I don't have a fear of guns.


It's obvious that you do.  Why else do you go out of your way to trumpet your opinion about what gun laws are in a country literally on the other side of the globe from you?



Dr Grump said:


> No, what you need to understand the context of what I'm saying.


I do understand the context.  That is why I dismiss your opinion as irrelevant (at best).


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## Crackerjack (Jan 3, 2013)

Dr Grump said:


> crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > uncensored2008 said:
> ...


You have no idea what the fuck I'm talking about, shitbreath.  Take your "bs" elsewhere.


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## Wicked Jester (Jan 3, 2013)

HY





Dr Grump said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > Fact of the matter is, tighter gun laws will do absolutely nothing.....We are in the midst of watching what is no doubt this country's worst generation coming of age, who are the prime perpetrators of these crimes......We are seeing the effects of the X-BOX generation coming of age.......We are seeing the effects of baby mama drama, absentee fathers, and parents who use video games, the internet and TV as pacifiers, instead of actually parenting.....We are seeing the effects of the "every child gets a trophy, whether they deserve it or not" mantra that the liberal left spouts......We are seeing the effects of lousy teachers and school administrators who are too stupid to recognize children with broken minds, or are either to affraid or ignorant to report their concerns.....We are seeing the effects of fully eroding morals in this country, no doubt championed by left wing liberals....We are seeing effects of crap doctors who prefer to just medicate the shit out of broken minded children, instead of trying to get to the root of of the problems. It's just easier that way, and far more profitable.]
> ...


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## jillian (Jan 3, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > Too bad you didn't get the chance to ban me before you were escorted out of the mod shack, ain't it?
> ...



No. I didn't. I tried to be very careful about that. 

Thank you.


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## jillian (Jan 3, 2013)

Crackerjack said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > crackerjack said:
> ...



we all know you're a liar.

but thanks.


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## Dr Grump (Jan 3, 2013)

Crackerjack said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > I don't have a fear of guns.
> ...



Whoosh..hear that? That's the sound of my points going over your head..


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

Dr Grump said:


> I could literally write thousands of pages of what I know about your country. Maybe 10s of 1000s...



All of it gleaned from Hollywood movies...



> See what IDB said...otherwise you are missing the point.
> 
> Absolutely I have a vested interest in the US. Once again, I wish it wasn't true..



You're mostly a blowhard, gump.


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## Dr Grump (Jan 3, 2013)

Crackerjack said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > crackerjack said:
> ...



I have every idea what you are talking abouta.
You have proven over and over again that you are nothing but a whiny, cry baby neocon whackjob...Who seems very unhappy with his life...


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## jillian (Jan 3, 2013)

Crackerjack said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > I don't have a fear of guns.
> ...



really? you sure have lots of opinions about what people should do in iraq and iran and syria and afghanistan and jordan and egypt and france and greece and germany and every other country.


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## Crackerjack (Jan 3, 2013)

jillian said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...


So it should be easy to prove, right?


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## Crackerjack (Jan 3, 2013)

Dr Grump said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...


Yeah, yeah, everyone who disagrees with you is a neocon.


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## Crackerjack (Jan 3, 2013)

jillian said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...


No, I have opinions about what Americans should do and (mostly) not do in those countries, fuckwit.


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## Koios (Jan 3, 2013)

Crackerjack said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



Then let Liberty Ring, except in cases where Crackerjack has opinions on how ya'll should conduct yourselve differently!!


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

Crackerjack said:


> Yeah, yeah, everyone who disagrees with you is a neocon.



Better a Neocon than a half-witted sheep-shagger...

Gump seeks to derail any serious debate or discussion; it is his one talent.


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## Dr Grump (Jan 3, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> Hyperbole my ass.....We didn't see this shit. happening back in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's....back when parents parented, this country had morals, there wasn't massive baby momma drama, there wasn't violent video games and internet for lousy parents to use as pacifiers, where kids were held accountable, where kids were rewarded for actually deserving it, and on and on and on.......Almost to a perpetrator, these kids who commit these acts share many of the same situations in their lives......Obsession with violent video games. products of inattentive parents or broken homes, etc.
> 
> And no, gun restrictions won't work.....Look at Chicago, Norway, Clinton's bans.....It will not work.....If someone is intent on killing, en masse, they will do it by whatever means necessary......Seriously, how many times do poorly educated towelheads in the Middle East use guns and rifles when perpetrating terrorist mass killings?.......Very rarely.
> 
> It's about changing the culture in this country, addressing many issues, including those i've listed.



50s, 60s, 70s and 80s? You mean in the 50s when you had segregation? Those good old days? In the 1960s where you had King and Kennedy assassinated?Vietnam?  The Black Panthers? Riots in big cities? Those days? In the 70s when you had a lying president, Ed Kemper, Ted Bundy, Son of Sam? You had Kent State, the Symbionese Liberation Army and John Wayne Gacy? Or the 80s where you had another lying president (Iran Contra), James Huberty, John Hinkley..

There have always been bad things in all decades, this is nothing new. You are one of those "In the old days" types. You are looking through rose-tinted glasses. I think you'll find, as far as crime goes, things are slightly better than they used to be. Hell, the murder rate in NY in the 70s and 80s was atrocious compared to now.


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## Dr Grump (Jan 3, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > I could literally write thousands of pages of what I know about your country. Maybe 10s of 1000s...
> ...



About 0.01 percent might be

I know, and you're the Fountain of All Knowledge and offer up scholarly wisdom in every post...


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## Koios (Jan 3, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, yeah, everyone who disagrees with you is a neocon.
> ...



The two are synonymous, with possible exception of "half-witted," which might be a smidge aggrandizing.


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## Crackerjack (Jan 3, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, yeah, everyone who disagrees with you is a neocon.
> ...


He's really good at minding other people's business.


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## Koios (Jan 3, 2013)

Crackerjack said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



Said the man who has opinions on how Americans should act.


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## Crackerjack (Jan 3, 2013)

Koios said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...


Yup.  Gotta police up your own people when they choose to go abroad and run others' countries for them.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

Dr Grump said:


> 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s? You mean in the 50s when you had segregation?



So your claim is mass murder is due to integration? That it's all the fault of the darkies?

No wonder you don't like guns, Gump; you manage to shoot your foot off even without one.



> Those good old days? In the 1960s where you had King and Kennedy assassinated?Vietnam?  The Black Panthers? Riots in big cities? Those days? In the 70s when you had a lying president, Ed Kemper, Ted Bundy, Son of Sam? You had Kent State, the Symbionese Liberation Army and John Wayne Gacy? Or the 80s where you had another lying president (Iran Contra), James Huberty, John Hinkley..



Well no president can be as honest as your little tin god (Benghazi) - eh fucktard?



> There have always been bad things in all decades, this is nothing new. You are one of those "In the old days" types. You are looking through rose-tinted glasses. I think you'll find, as far as crime goes, things are slightly better than they used to be. Hell, the murder rate in NY in the 70s and 80s was atrocious compared to now.



The MASS murders are new. Gun violence is WAY down, not that you shit fer brain leftists would admit it. What is new is the targeting of large numbers. Actually, it's new to America. The Kingdoms of Europe and their Colonies have engaged in massacres for centuries.


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## Dr Grump (Jan 3, 2013)

Crackerjack said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



So she called you a liar. And?

Gunny used to call me an asshole, motherfucking libtard. But he was a good admin and mod...never banned me or threatened me in any way. Just because J called you out on what you are/were, doesn't mean she didn't know what she was doing. It just means you're a whiny neocon whackjob who can't handle the heat. Oh, and you're dumb as a post too, but that might be insulting posts...


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## idb (Jan 3, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Just so I understand, are you saying that *all* progressives see human life as without value?
> ...



Odd, I would have thought all that applied to modern 'rightism'.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

Koios said:


> The two are synonymous, with possible exception of "half-witted," which might be a smidge aggrandizing.



So "sheep-shagger" and "half-wit" are synonyms?

Dr. Gump resembles that remark...


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## Koios (Jan 3, 2013)

Crackerjack said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



Mind your own fucking business and stay the fuck out of other peoples' business, fuckwit!!!


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## Dr Grump (Jan 3, 2013)

Crackerjack said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



Nope. CG is not a neocon, neither is Si Modo. Neither is Jillian (and yes, we disagree). Neither is Del or Elvis (disagree a lot with those two on many things). I could go on. This board has a fair whack of neocons, but that is no surprise for varying reasons...


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## Dr Grump (Jan 3, 2013)

Crackerjack said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...



Bingo. So you have opinions, which was her point you moron. I wish I could say you 'play' dumb well, but we all know it's not an act...


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## Crackerjack (Jan 3, 2013)

Dr Grump said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...


I guess you don't believe in people actually proving their accusations.  I'm not surprised, pederast.


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## Koios (Jan 3, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > The two are synonymous, with possible exception of "half-witted," which might be a smidge aggrandizing.
> ...



No.  They're disparate, but both exclusive to Neocons, the folks who this guy can look at and say, "Boy are they dumb!!"


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

Crackerjack said:


> He's really good at minding other people's business.



That'll come in handy if he can get a recreation of the STASI set up Down Under...


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## Dr Grump (Jan 3, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, yeah, everyone who disagrees with you is a neocon.
> ...



I've had many serious debates on this board. I cannot think of one time you have. In fact, there have been times when I've had serious debates and you've come along and derailed it with you verbose, classless put downs. The words "civil debate" and "uncensored" will never belong in the same sentence. Just the way an ignoramus like you rolls...


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## Crackerjack (Jan 3, 2013)

Dr Grump said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
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No, her point was that she thinks I have opinions of what other people do in their own countries.  Yet again she is wrong.

Have you ever read me opine about what goes on in Australia?  Nope, because I don't give a flying fuck what happens there.  Your country, your problem.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

idb said:


> Odd, I would have thought all that applied to modern 'rightism'.



Well, you never were particularly sharp, were you?


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## Wicked Jester (Jan 3, 2013)

Dr Grump said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > Hyperbole my ass.....We didn't see this shit. happening back in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's....back when parents parented, this country had morals, there wasn't massive baby momma drama, there wasn't violent video games and internet for lousy parents to use as pacifiers, where kids were held accountable, where kids were rewarded for actually deserving it, and on and on and on.......Almost to a perpetrator, these kids who commit these acts share many of the same situations in their lives......Obsession with violent video games. products of inattentive parents or broken homes, etc.
> ...


What we NEVER saw back in those days were kids walking into schools on a frequent basis
and blowing people away en masse. And it has everything to do with all those issues I listed.

Case closed, period!


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

Koios said:


> No.  They're disparate,



Odd, you JUST claimed they were synonymous... But then, you're a fucking retard, so the stumbling contradictions are to be expected.



> but both exclusive to Neocons, the folks who this guy can look at and say, "Boy are they dumb!!"



Neocons are sheep-shaggers?

ROFL

Have a cookie, sparky...


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## Dr Grump (Jan 3, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s? You mean in the 50s when you had segregation?
> ...



1) That was not my point. The fact you missed it is of no surprise.
2) Yeah, that's right, he's my little god (rolls eyes)
3) Mass murders are new? Really? So James Hurberty was new in 1984? Charlies Whitman in 1966 was 'new'? Charles Starkweather in 1959 was new? As for massacres, I'm sure the Sioux, Cheyenne [insert Indian tribe here] would disagree. Does this Antipodean need to educate your dumb arse on your own history? Didn't we already have this convo in this very thread?


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

Dr Grump said:


> I've had many serious debates on this board. I cannot think of one time you have. In fact, there have been times when I've had serious debates and you've come along and derailed it with you verbose, classless point down. The words "civil debate" and "uncensored" will never belong in the same sentence. Just the way an ignoramus like you rolls...



Yer just a bundle of class and restraint, eh sheep-shagger?


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## idb (Jan 3, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Odd, I would have thought all that applied to modern 'rightism'.
> ...



Oooo...you're always ready with a witty retort.
It's a pity that you just...can't...get...it...out....


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## Koios (Jan 3, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > No.  They're disparate,
> ...



I believe so, but then, most are so fucking stupid they'd blow the pickup-line when wooing sheep, much less have sex with an actual human female.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

Dr Grump said:


> 1) That was not my point. The fact you missed it is of no surprise.



You had no point, you clumsily flung shit like a feral baboon, but smeared yourself. You thought you could deflect the point by screaming "RACIST," like a trained monkey. Yet you failed to consider the implication of your claim.



> 2) Yeah, that's right, he's my little god (rolls eyes)



Quick, which president didn't lie?



> 3) Mass murders are new? Really? So James Hurberty was new in 1984? Charlies Whitman in 1966 was 'new'? Charles Starkweather in 1959 was new?



Whitman is considered the first of the mass killers. And yes, it is new. Starkweather was spree killer, idiot.



> As for massacres, I'm sure the Sioux, Cheyenne [insert Indian tribe here] would disagree.



Maybe Ritalin would help you focus? The Indian wars are not civilians murdering large groups for no reason.



> Does this Antipodean need to educate your dumb arse on your own history? Didn't we already have this convo in this very thread?



That would be rich, maybe the Aborigines could say a word about how lovely you sheep-shaggers were to them... Any from the "stolen generation" around? I mean, that was only a decade or two back...


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

idb said:


> Oooo...you're always ready with a witty retort.
> It's a pity that you just...can't...get...it...out....


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## Koios (Jan 3, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > No.  They're disparate,
> ...



Nope.  You misread, which comes as little surprise.  I expect about 99.9999% of what I write to go over your pinhead (words with 3 or more letters).  But then, even to my amazement, the clarification you requested went way the fuck over your head.

So now I'm wondering, how fucking retarded is this guy?  Turnip-intelligence?  Something less?  Prob'ly.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

Koios said:


> I believe so, but then, most are so fucking stupid they'd blow the pickup-line when wooing sheep, much less have sex with an actual human female.



You know, seeing as you have an IQ in the low 30's, this is a waste of time... BUT, America imports nearly all of our lamb from New Zealand. We really aren't much of a sheep country, sparky...

You have no clue how incredibly stupid you reveal yourself to be; don't ever change.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

Koios said:


> Nope.  You misread, which comes as little surprise.  I expect about 99.9999% of what I write to go over your pinhead (words with 3 or more letters).  But then, even to my amazement, the clarification you requested went way the fuck over your head.
> 
> So now I'm wondering, how fucking retarded is this guy?  Turnip-intelligence?  Something less?  Prob'ly.



He swings again, at the ball already called foul...

ROFL

You really put the "what a moron" in "fucktard," sparky.


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## jillian (Jan 3, 2013)

Dr Grump said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



it is. posts serve a purpose.


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## Koios (Jan 3, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > I believe so, but then, most are so fucking stupid they'd blow the pickup-line when wooing sheep, much less have sex with an actual human female.
> ...



Wow!  Really?  Coming from where you're at I must seem like a cross between Newton and Einstein to ya'll.  I'm flattered.  Really.  [blush]


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2013)

Koios said:


> Wow!  Really?  Coming from where you're at I must seem like a cross between Newton and Einstein to ya'll.  I'm flattered.  Really.  [blush]



That was actually the best you could do....


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## Dr Grump (Jan 3, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > 1) That was not my point. The fact you missed it is of no surprise.
> ...



1) My point was - and I'll even say it slowly for you if you like - was that WJ was saying that everything was Hunky Dory in the 50s, 60s and 70s. It had nothing to do with racism you Moron. It was a "bigger picture" point. One that, unsurprisingly, passed you by.
2) Oh, so I didn't mention every lie that every president made. Were you insisting that I write chapter and verse everything that happened in US history during those four decades? Do you need it spelt out for you? Hmmm, probably.
3) And er, Whitman was in 1966, right? WJ was talking about that decade, right? Ditto Huberty in the 1980s. I'm sure you get this, no? Again, maybe not.
4) Oh, a spree killer! Wow, what a difference that makes <rolls eyes>. 
5) Since you are butting in to our conversation, who said there was a qualifier about it being civilian massacres? You brought the subject up about Europe and massacres, nothing was qualified.
6) I am not Australian so had nothing to do with Aborigines, and I do think what happened to them was awful. You'll get no disagreement from me.

I did not think this was possible, but I'm actually engaging with somebody who gets dumber as they post...


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## Koios (Jan 3, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Wow!  Really?  Coming from where you're at I must seem like a cross between Newton and Einstein to ya'll.  I'm flattered.  Really.  [blush]
> ...



I hope not.  Shall we continue?  Nothin' I'd love more.

But the deal is, I need to play off stuff.  And try as you have, you're not giving me much.

So if you wouldn't mind raising your game a bit, this might get good.

Thanks in advance.


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## Crackerjack (Jan 3, 2013)

jillian said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjack said:
> ...


Once again, you cannot back up your bullshit.  Typical.

There's probably a life lesson in there for you if you look real hard.


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## Dr Grump (Jan 3, 2013)

Crackerjack said:


> There's probably a life lesson in there for you if you look real hard.



Don't have to look too hard. It's called 'not engaging with retards like you.'

Adios...


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## Wicked Jester (Jan 3, 2013)

Dr Grump said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...


Don't dishonestly twist the meaning of what I said....I never said everything was "hunky dorey" back then......The meaning of what I said was that we never saw the level of violence that we see from this current generation....Show me one instant of a kid walking into a school or movie theatre and doing their best to kill as many people as possible.......Show me all the instances where it was happening on damn near regular basis.

Until you do so, you can't counter my claims.


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## Crackerjack (Jan 3, 2013)

Dr Grump said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > There's probably a life lesson in there for you if you look real hard.
> ...


... says the kid who can't tell a neocon from a hole in his head.


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## jillian (Jan 3, 2013)

Crackerjack said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



i doubt you have life lessons to offer anyone.

and i'd suggest that me calling you a liar was a statement of fact. i dare you to point out what MODERATOR ACTION was taken against you for lying?

i'd also suggest that you look at how other mods talk to posters and if you were that butt-hurt, then you've got a mental problem.

i've called uncensored 'shouldbecensored' for eons. but he's honest enough to get the difference between comments made as a poster and moderator action.

you're just a wacko.


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## Crackerjack (Jan 3, 2013)

jillian said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...


Then it should be very easy to prove.

Go ahead, link to it.  Thanks in advance.





jillian said:


> i dare you to point out what MODERATOR ACTION was taken against you for lying?
> 
> i'd also suggest that you look at how other mods talk to posters and if you were that butt-hurt, then you've got a mental problem.
> 
> ...


Can you read at all, you fucking twat?  Where did I ever say *anything* about any moderator action taken against me for lying?  Link to it.

You're either stupid or dishonest.  Probably both.


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## Koios (Jan 3, 2013)

Okay; fuckit, I'll start ...



Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > I believe so, but then, most are so fucking stupid they'd blow the pickup-line when wooing sheep, much less have sex with an actual human female.
> ...



While indeed, sheep populations in the US have declined since the 1940s, from a high of 50 or so million, to around 6.2 million head as of January 1, 2007, I have a pretty good idea of what might be at play ...

Not all Neocons are vegetable-smart, and some of the brighter ones might indeed come up with successful pickup lines when wooing sheep they hope to god are female.  But here's the rub.  Humans and sheep are not compatible species.  So no fuzzy little retarded Neocon babies are a result, just fewer lambs due to mommy sheep being so full of Neocon spunk.

The population dwindles, but cream-pie porn of pics taken by post-coital tristesse sheep-fucker Neocons can be emailed around between ya'll and serves the many Neocons who are too fucking stupid to find a sheep or pickup a sheep should they accidentally run into one.


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## beagle9 (Jan 3, 2013)

jillian said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...


Oh that's right, unless you have a failed government program like Fast and Furious right?


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## Dr Grump (Jan 4, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> [
> ]Don't dishonestly twist the meaning of what I said....I never said everything was "hunky dorey" back then......The meaning of what I said was that we never saw the level of violence that we see from this current generation....Show me one instant of a kid walking into a school or movie theatre and doing their best to kill as many people as possible.......Show me all the instances where it was happening on damn near regular basis.
> 
> Until you do so, you can't counter my claims.



Crime in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Scroll down to the Crime Rate. Under homicides:
1960 it was 5.1 per 100,000 
1979, 1981 and 1991 us peaked at 9.8. 
2010 it was down to 4.8

You were saying?


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## Wicked Jester (Jan 4, 2013)

Dr Grump said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...


So, show me all those instances of kids committing mass murder back then....Show me all those instances of kids walking into schools, movie theatres, etc., and wantonely shooting as many people as they possibly can on a regular basis back then.

This will be the second request.....Let's see if you can come up with proof to refute my claims.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 4, 2013)

Koios said:


> While indeed, sheep populations in the US have declined since the 1940s, from a high of 50 or so million, to around 6.2 million head as of January 1, 2007, I have a pretty good idea of what might be at play ...



That may be, but most U.S. Sheep are used for wool, not for lamb chops. 

Looks like about half of the lamb for meat in the USA comes from New Zealand, and the rest is domestic.

Lamb 101 - The New York Sun



> Not all Neocons are vegetable-smart,



If "Neocons" had the same intellect as a stalk of broccoli, then they would be Obama voting leftists.



> and some of the brighter ones might indeed come up with successful pickup lines when wooing sheep they hope to god are female.  But here's the rub.  Humans and sheep are not compatible species.  So no fuzzy little retarded Neocon babies are a result, just fewer lambs due to mommy sheep being so full of Neocon spunk.



I wonder what you would babble about if you actually knew what the words you spew mean?

All those years in prep-school, and all you did was huff oven spray...



> The population dwindles, but cream-pie porn of pics taken by post-coital tristesse sheep-fucker Neocons can be emailed around between ya'll and serves the many Neocons who are too fucking stupid to find a sheep or pickup a sheep should they accidentally run into one.



Cut down on the gold paint chips, sparky - they'll destroy your last two brain cells...

Standard Disclaimer: A Neocon is a neo-conservative. Generally those who supported PNAC, neo-cons are economic and domestic LIBERALS who support a hawkish foreign policy.


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## Koios (Jan 4, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > While indeed, sheep populations in the US have declined since the 1940s, from a high of 50 or so million, to around 6.2 million head as of January 1, 2007, I have a pretty good idea of what might be at play ...
> ...



And when you Necons are fucking them, the distiction is what, exactly?


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Jan 4, 2013)

2100 posts guys? Lol


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## Wicked Jester (Jan 4, 2013)

Koios said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...


What was the distinction when William Jethro Clinton was fucking a PIG in the whitehouse while his young child was playing down the hall?

Seriously though,.......you're not exactly the brightest light on the ol' Xmas tree o' life, eh, Sparky?


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## Koios (Jan 4, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



The distinction was that Bill showed remarkably poor judgement and was a total scumbag for not seeing that the celebrity of being president had an aphrodisial quality for a star-struck young intern, whom he exploited sexually merely because it was convenient, and not because he was in lover with her, it seems.  Indeed, he threw her under the bus.

And to the discredit of many of my fellow Democrats, many in the media, and even you, a Clinton-hater (ironically), Ms. Lewinsky was made out as being something less than a victim to deflect blame from Bill Clinton, which sickens me, too.


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## Autodidact_33 (Jan 10, 2013)

Once again the media has become saturated with images of another instance of a tragic massacre where an unstable assailant driven by motives which no rational individual could understand has taken the lives of almost thirty men, women and children. Now around thirty families are probably stricken with a profound grief that any whose lives have not been tragically inflicted by violence could understand. One can help but not feel vulnerable since these senseless crimes can happen anywhere and at any time. Men driven by an irrational hatred and rage strike suddenly and seem completely unfeeling about the pain and loss they will cause and often don't even seem to care of their own welfare. Understandably people ask what is the cause of these horrific events, could it be the availability of military grade weaponry in some nations or a global popular culture where violence is pervasive and sometimes even glamorized. Many are shocked by such events and even angered which is natural, for we all want ourselves and those for whom we care to live in safety and not be stricken down by sudden acts of violence. Our leaders and those in authority promise to act and make the world in which we live safer, yet sometimes the solutions to these occurrences of violence may escape even the most learned amongst us. Any society will mostly be made up of those who will contribute to it, but there will always be a small few who will threaten that society for numerous and varied reasons. People are justifiably scared, not only for themselves but for those they care for, and some may even feel powerless to protect them. So what can be done some may ask.
	In most of the recent cases of these tragic mass shootings the culprits responsible had been known to be troubled before they carried out their crimes. The shooter responsible for the attack on a female politician in Arizona was known to his college piers to be deeply troubled before those events transpired. The man responsible for the massacre at Virginia Tech was known to be problematic, his teachers and fellow students all knew this. In fact in most of these cases the culprit displayed behavior that many found disturbed and troubling. Though most of these men had no criminal record, they displayed tendencies that most saw as disturbed. So it stands to reason that such men display tendencies which may indicate they could threaten others. 
	Though I am adamantly opposed to any type of pre-crime where a person is punished not for what they have done but for what they might do, perhaps mental health officials should be able to institutionalize those who may display behavior which indicates they could threaten others. But this theoretical institutionalization would not be permanent, perhaps through therapy and other new methods these men could be released back into society if those involved in their treatment deem them to be safe and capable of being productive members of society. Perhaps both places of employment and academic institutions should have an legal apparatus available so they can notify mental health care providers of individuals who may display tendencies which indicate they may hurt others in the future. But such men are not to be punished but are taken out of society until psychiatric professionals determine them to be safe and no longer and danger to others or themselves. The solution could be treatment and not punishment before such tragic crimes occur.
	Such crimes cause grief to many and currently the public rightfully demands action, and perhaps precautions could be taken to prevent even more families losing someone they love needlessly. At least that is my view on the problem.


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