# The breakup of the United Kingdom???



## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

With yesterday's historic vote for England to leave the EU, many repercussions will inevitably follow and not many of them in the "positive" column.

Currently the UK comprises 4 countries, and there are strong tendencies from countries such as Scotland and Northern Ireland to ALSO leave the tenuous compact to remain within the UK; this, coupled with the industrial sectors within England wanting to remain within the EU, will spell very hard economic times for the UK's future.

There is little doubt that the ripple effect of our wars in the middle east regions has taken its toll on the issue of immigration from those war-torn countries to Europe.....Britain has chosen to close its borders to such immigration, and yesterday's vote to separate itself from the EU will prove to be an economic and social downturn for that country.

We are indeed living in interesting times.


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## Pete7469 (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> With yesterday's historic vote for England to leave the EU, many repercussions will inevitably follow and not many of them in the "positive" column.
> 
> Currently the UK comprises 4 countries, and there are strong tendencies from countries such as Scotland and Northern Ireland to ALSO leave the tenuous compact to remain within the UK; this, coupled with the industrial sectors within England wanting to remain within the EU, will spell very hard economic times for the UK's future.
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Or it can turn into an upturn if they're going to secure their borders better and start punting a lot of their islamic zealots out of the country.


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## Kosh (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> With yesterday's historic vote for England to leave the EU, many repercussions will inevitably follow and not many of them in the "positive" column.
> 
> Currently the UK comprises 4 countries, and there are strong tendencies from countries such as Scotland and Northern Ireland to ALSO leave the tenuous compact to remain within the UK; this, coupled with the industrial sectors within England wanting to remain within the EU, will spell very hard economic times for the UK's future.
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Far leftism is getting rejected all over the world, you far left drones need to accept it..


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## NoNukes (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> With yesterday's historic vote for England to leave the EU, many repercussions will inevitably follow and not many of them in the "positive" column.
> 
> Currently the UK comprises 4 countries, and there are strong tendencies from countries such as Scotland and Northern Ireland to ALSO leave the tenuous compact to remain within the UK; this, coupled with the industrial sectors within England wanting to remain within the EU, will spell very hard economic times for the UK's future.
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Scotland is already talking about another vote for Indeoendance.


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## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

The w winners in England's secession from the EU.......Germany, France and Italy's industrial complexes


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## martybegan (Jun 24, 2016)

NoNukes said:


> nat4900 said:
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And then the EU can have another country that is a net negative on the overall economy. 

Wales and England voted to stay in, Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to get out.

The main concern is if Northern Ireland as a whole now decided to re-unite with the Republic to stay in the EU, will the hard line unionists stand for it, or will the Troubles begin anew, with each party on the opposite side as before?


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## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

Pete7469 said:


> Or it can turn into an upturn if they're going to secure their borders better and start punting a lot of their islamic zealots out of the country.




You should know that most of England's Muslims have immigrated there from former British colonies and NOT from Syria and Iraq


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## NoNukes (Jun 24, 2016)

martybegan said:


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Most of the people in the Republic do not want to be reunited with the North.


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## easyt65 (Jun 24, 2016)

Because the UK walked away from the disastrous EU they are going to break up and collapse?  Ok....


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## Pete7469 (Jun 24, 2016)

Kosh said:


> Far leftism is getting rejected all over the world, you far left drones need to accept it..



I haven't accepted that regressivism has been rejected. It never goes away. Regressives are like mooselimbs. They don't just give ground and stay away. They'll be working on getting the EU back in and punish them.


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## martybegan (Jun 24, 2016)

NoNukes said:


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Link?


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## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

Probably the best "summary" of yesterday's vote to secede from the EU, was offered by an interviewed English woman...she stated, "I voted with my heart and not my head..." 
Kind of an adequate summary, I'd guess.


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## kaz (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> With yesterday's historic vote for England to leave the EU, many repercussions will inevitably follow and not many of them in the "positive" column.
> 
> Currently the UK comprises 4 countries, and there are strong tendencies from countries such as Scotland and Northern Ireland to ALSO leave the tenuous compact to remain within the UK; this, coupled with the industrial sectors within England wanting to remain within the EU, will spell very hard economic times for the UK's future.
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Scotland is put to bed for a while as the referendum to leave was voted down.  And protestant Northern Ireland reconnecting with Catholic Ireland?  Dream on


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## kaz (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Probably the best "summary" of yesterday's vote to secede from the EU, was offered by an interviewed English woman...she stated, "I voted with my heart and not my head..."
> Kind of an adequate summary, I'd guess.



A liberal can sure relate to that


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## blackhawk (Jun 24, 2016)

We have no idea what the impact will be long term but feel free to continue speculating.


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## kaz (Jun 24, 2016)

martybegan said:


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That's been traditionally true as Ireland was happy to have the Brits run the violent hell hole it was for so many years.  I'm not sure how Ireland feels now that the violence does seem to be going away.  However, I can't see with 2-1 Protestant to Catholic population voting to rejoin Catholic Ireland


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## LordBrownTrout (Jun 24, 2016)

Good for Britain.  Theyre going to be way better off without the EU.  They need to close the door on the muslim refugees that are coming in.


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## AceRothstein (Jun 24, 2016)

I'm hoping for a reunified Ireland.


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## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

LordBrownTrout said:


> Good for Britain. Theyre going to be way better off without the EU. They need to close the door on the muslim refugees that are coming in.




Here's yet another CLUELESS right winger......But, carry on spreading your ignorance.


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## LordBrownTrout (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> With yesterday's historic vote for England to leave the EU, many repercussions will inevitably follow and not many of them in the "positive" column.
> 
> Currently the UK comprises 4 countries, and there are strong tendencies from countries such as Scotland and Northern Ireland to ALSO leave the tenuous compact to remain within the UK; this, coupled with the industrial sectors within England wanting to remain within the EU, will spell very hard economic times for the UK's future.
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We know that you're sad because your worthless president is wrong again.


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## Pete7469 (Jun 24, 2016)

LordBrownTrout said:


> Good for Britain.  Theyre going to be way better off without the EU.  They need to close the door on the muslim refugees that are coming in.




And ramp up the trebuchet to get some of them out.


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## LordBrownTrout (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> LordBrownTrout said:
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> > Good for Britain. Theyre going to be way better off without the EU. They need to close the door on the muslim refugees that are coming in.
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Nope, britain will be fine.  Clueless?  That would be your worthless president.


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## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

kaz said:


> Scotland is put to bed for a while as the referendum to leave was voted down. And protestant Northern Ireland reconnecting with Catholic Ireland? Dream on



Scotland is wisely waiting on how the economic impact of England having to renegotiate key economic trade deals with the rest of  Europe.....they'll go with whatever is best for Scotland and not to preserve the UK.


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## LordBrownTrout (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


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> > Or it can turn into an upturn if they're going to secure their borders better and start punting a lot of their islamic zealots out of the country.
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You should know that 1.5 million are in england illegally.


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## Sarah G (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> With yesterday's historic vote for England to leave the EU, many repercussions will inevitably follow and not many of them in the "positive" column.
> 
> Currently the UK comprises 4 countries, and there are strong tendencies from countries such as Scotland and Northern Ireland to ALSO leave the tenuous compact to remain within the UK; this, coupled with the industrial sectors within England wanting to remain within the EU, will spell very hard economic times for the UK's future.
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It's very interesting and I'm just turning on the tv and hearing about it now.  Wow.


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## bendog (Jun 24, 2016)

Kosh said:


> nat4900 said:
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Leftism?  You fool, Scotland will most likely be voting to leave the UK for the EU, and N. Ireland has a good chance of being assimilated by Sein Fein.   Leftism won this one fair and square.  Whether or not that's good thing remains to be seen.


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## Sarah G (Jun 24, 2016)

LordBrownTrout said:


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Out of 53 million people.


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## bendog (Jun 24, 2016)

Sarah G said:


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Something like 71% of voters voted.  Pretty amazing.


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## Pete7469 (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> You should know that most of England's Muslims have immigrated there from former British colonies and NOT from Syria and Iraq



You should know they're a drain on the public resources, pay little or nothing into the system, engage in more crime per capita, and have a slight tendency to blow up, or chop up people in the streets.

You can keep 'em if you want 'em, just don't tell us we should take some.

You ever had a buddy try something, declare that it tasted like shit and say "here, try it".?


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## Sarah G (Jun 24, 2016)

bendog said:


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I'm hearing they were pretty evenly divided.


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## NYcarbineer (Jun 24, 2016)

The rightwinger in the US praise this because they'd like to see it happen to the US.  They hate America as a nation.


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## LordBrownTrout (Jun 24, 2016)

With the EU's damaging approach to immigration and recent collapses in finance in banking, I can't see how anyone would want to stay a part of such a corrupt organization...much less want to join them at this point.


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## LordBrownTrout (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> The rightwinger in the US praise this because they'd like to see it happen to the US.  They hate America as a nation.




No, DC hates america as a nation.  We need to break away from them.


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## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> With yesterday's historic vote for England to leave the EU, many repercussions will inevitably follow and not many of them in the "positive" column.
> 
> Currently the UK comprises 4 countries, and there are strong tendencies from countries such as Scotland and Northern Ireland to ALSO leave the tenuous compact to remain within the UK; this, coupled with the industrial sectors within England wanting to remain within the EU, will spell very hard economic times for the UK's future.
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> ...




Because a oversupply of cheap labor is so important to compete in teh 21st century?


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## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> The rightwinger in the US praise this because they'd like to see it happen to the US.  They hate America as a nation.





Says the lib who just called half the nation traitors.


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## bendog (Jun 24, 2016)

Sarah G said:


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Yeah, overall.  But the vote shows a pretty deeply division regionally.  With Scotland voting 68% to stay in the EU (Donald apparently didn't get that news), it looks pretty grim for the UK staying united because while the vote was close overall, it wasn't so much by region.  Scotland and N. Ireland voted to stay in the EU more definitely than the more close overall vote.  That is, England and Wales voted much differently than did Scotland and N. Ireland.

If Scotland leaves the UK for the EU, that has defense implications for the US because the UK's nuclear deterrent is in Scotland, and the Scots want it out.

If Sein Fein can not force a vote to remove the border around N. Ireland so the whole of Ireland remains in the EU .... that seems very scary in light of the violence the N. Ireland protestants engaged in against the N. Ireland catholics.


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## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

bendog said:


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The EU is the Leftist model. Faceless, unaccountable bureaucrats ruling against the Will of the People. 

This was a huge defeat for leftism.


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## Sarah G (Jun 24, 2016)

bendog said:


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Yes, that idiot got lucky finding a lot of cameras over there at this particular time.


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## Two Thumbs (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> With yesterday's historic vote for England to leave the EU, many repercussions will inevitably follow and not many of them in the "positive" column.
> 
> Currently the UK comprises 4 countries, and there are strong tendencies from countries such as Scotland and Northern Ireland to ALSO leave the tenuous compact to remain within the UK; this, coupled with the industrial sectors within England wanting to remain within the EU, will spell very hard economic times for the UK's future.
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This op right here, shows, w/o any doubt, just how completely and utter the ignorance of leftist.

This moron actually thinks that leaving a sinking ship is a bad idea.


four legs good
Two legs better


give that sheep some free grass


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## martybegan (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> The rightwinger in the US praise this because they'd like to see it happen to the US.  They hate America as a nation.



No, we hate what you assholes are trying to do to the nation, and some of the people in it.

Big difference.


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## martybegan (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


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The EU moves power further and further away from the people, and delegates it to un-reachable and unaccountable bureaucracies. 

Its basically a progressive Statist's wet dream.


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## martybegan (Jun 24, 2016)

bendog said:


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Well then the EU gets to subsidize Scotland's Blue Model instead of England and Wales.


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## bendog (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


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Whatever, but the Scots and Irish independent movements are hardly the left.  Typically, you must attempt to force your own ideological agenda onto anything, no matter how much they differ.


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## bendog (Jun 24, 2016)

martybegan said:


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No doubt the EU is basically a tool of multinational corporatism.  Calling it left or right is intellectual laziness.


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## martybegan (Jun 24, 2016)

bendog said:


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Progressive Statism, to me is the real culprit.


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## bendog (Jun 24, 2016)

martybegan said:


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Whatever that term means to you.


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## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

bendog said:


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I made no comment on the Scott and Irish independent movement.

My comment was about the EU, and how it is THE LEFTY MODEL.

And the UK leaving will be a huge defeat for the Left.


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## bendog (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


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I know.  Your view of the universe is devoid of implications beyond the end of your nose.


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## NYcarbineer (Jun 24, 2016)

martybegan said:


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lol, nice meltdown.


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## CowboyTed (Jun 24, 2016)

martybegan said:


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## NYcarbineer (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


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You people don't want a sovereign nation.  You want 50 sovereign states.  You want to Balkanize America.


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## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

bendog said:


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Blah, blah, blah.

My point about the EU stands.


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## CowboyTed (Jun 24, 2016)

kaz said:


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Scotland has a clause that states a new referendum on UK leaving EU.

Agree with you about Ireland, there is no chance of that happening.. The Republic of IReland couldn't afford Northern Ireland even if there wasn't a sh*tstorm fromt he unionists... Northern Ireland is UK's problem...


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## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


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I don't know if you can hear me over the voices in your head.


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## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> With yesterday's historic vote for England to leave the EU, many repercussions will inevitably follow and not many of them in the "positive" column.
> 
> Currently the UK comprises 4 countries, and there are strong tendencies from countries such as Scotland and Northern Ireland to ALSO leave the tenuous compact to remain within the UK; this, coupled with the industrial sectors within England wanting to remain within the EU, will spell very hard economic times for the UK's future.
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Cutting Scotland lose will benefit Britain, by losing a huge drag on its economy and ejecting a huge majority of traditional Labor support.


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## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

CowboyTed said:


> Agree with you about Ireland, there is no chance of that happening.. The Republic of IReland couldn't afford Northern Ireland even if there wasn't a sh*tstorm fromt he unionists... Northern Ireland is UK's problem...



Give them a vote anyway and enforce it.


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## BluesLegend (Jun 24, 2016)

Maybe the UK and USA will team up to conquer other countries and divide the spoils, a new era of empire building.


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## martybegan (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


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A 2 sentence reply is not a "meltdown". 

This coming from someone who posted the typical "RW's hate amurica, fuh fuh fuh" tripe is comical.


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## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

Pete7469 said:


> I haven't accepted that regressivism has been rejected. It never goes away. Regressives are like mooselimbs. They don't just give ground and stay away. They'll be working on getting the EU back in and punish them.


EU chief vows bloc will stay united after Britain exit vote | Fox News

_The head of the biggest bloc in the parliament fired an early warning shot at Cameron that Britain should expect no free ride as it negotiates its departure.

"There cannot be any special treatment for the United Kingdom. The British people have expressed their wish to leave the EU. Leave means leave. The times of cherry-picking are over," European Peoples Party leader Manfred Weber said.

He insisted that the exit negotiations "should be concluded within two years."

This insistence on a "hard exit" is aimed at discouraging other countries from wanting to leave the bloc in the belief that they might be able to negotiate a comfortable partnership from the outside._


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## CowboyTed (Jun 24, 2016)

bendog said:


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Soctland will leave...

I can guarantee you that Northern Ireland be an independent country before it joins Ireland... You must remember Republic of IReland is pretty pragmatic, Northern Ireland's economy is 70% in government services.. It is a propped up econmy


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## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Pete7469 said:
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Lefties don't seem too tolerant when things don't go their way, do they?


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## NOLA Gator (Jun 24, 2016)

Scotland leaving GB would not be critical.  (Except maybe Sub Bases)

Ireland is doing fine.


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## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


> Lefties don't seem too tolerant when things don't go their way, do they?



Well they havent gotten to the guillotines or firing squads yet, their most traditional means of showing disapproval.


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## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

JimBowie1958 said:


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Give it time.


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## Soggy in NOLA (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


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Authoritarians never are....  BREXIT is just one more example of the great Socialist Experiment going haywire.


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## NYcarbineer (Jun 24, 2016)

martybegan said:


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You don't want a united nation.  You want unlimited power going back to the states.


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## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

LordBrownTrout said:


> You should know that 1.5 million are in england illegally.




Again, nitwit, how many are from Syria and Iraq.......The vast majority of "illegals" in England are from India or Pakistan who simply have overstayed their visas.


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## martybegan (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


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Wrong. What I want is what was intended in the document originally and through its amendments. 

For example, States shouldn't be allowed to deny any explicit right given in the constitution.

For other things like Gay marriage, to me the feds have no authority forcing States to issue licenses in this situation, however, they can force States to recognize any valid license from another State, under full faith and credit. 

See, not unlimited state power, so your accusation is false, and I expect you to correct it, bitch tits.


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## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


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It is interesting to read his posts, and then your responses that have nothing to do with his posts.


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## Soggy in NOLA (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


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Most power under the U.S. Constitution, rests with the states.  That's the model.  It's the progressive retards that have slowly moved to an all empowered central authority.  That is precisely what the Founders sought to avoid.  But then, history seems to have never been your strong suit.


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## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


> Says the lib who just called half the nation traitors.




You should know that right wingers like yourself DO NOT make up half the population of this country...Thank heavens.


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## DigitalDrifter (Jun 24, 2016)

Viva nationalism.


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## NYcarbineer (Jun 24, 2016)

martybegan said:


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The States shouldn't be allowed to deny any explicit right given in the Constitution?

The Supremacy Clause of the Constitution gives the federal government the EXPLICIT power to determine the constitutionality of ALL state laws,

and to invalidate them if they are not constitutional.

Case closed.


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## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


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Trump is polling at 40%. 

How can you claim to love a country where 40% of the people are willing to support someone was bad as you claim to believe Trump is?


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## NYcarbineer (Jun 24, 2016)

Keep in mind that in principle the UK leaving the European Union is comparable to, say, Texas leaving the US.

So don't pretend that your support for the UK is not implicit support for secession of any of the so-called sovereign states in our UNION.


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## NYcarbineer (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


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Because Jesus loves you.

lol


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## BlackAsCoal (Jun 24, 2016)

*France overtakes UK as fifth largest economy as pound plummets*
France overtakes UK as fifth largest economy as pound plummets


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## Soggy in NOLA (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> Keep in mind that in principle the UK leaving the European Union is comparable to, say, Texas leaving the US.
> 
> So don't pretend that your support for the UK is not implicit support for secession of any of the so-called sovereign states in our UNION.



Oh for the love of Pete, it is nothing like that.  Jesus Christ... you people never cease to amaze me.  That's like equating secession with with the US withdrawing from NATO.


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## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> Keep in mind that in principle the UK leaving the European Union is comparable to, say, Texas leaving the US.
> 
> So don't pretend that your support for the UK is not implicit support for secession of any of the so-called sovereign states in our UNION.




The Brits were not frenchmen, the frenchmen were not italians, the italians were not greeks, the greeks were not poles, ect, ect ect.


Lefties like you tried to pretend that nationalism was an outmoded concept and to build a superstate that was big enough to compete with the US,


At the cost of democracy and national sovereignty.


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## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


> And the UK leaving will be a huge defeat for the Left.




Actually, the secession was NOT from the UK, but from rural England and Wales only.....The label "UK" may no longer be applicable.


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## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

BlackAsCoal said:


> *France overtakes UK as fifth largest economy as pound plummets*
> France overtakes UK as fifth largest economy as pound plummets




A cheaper pound will encourage exports, and discourage imports.


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## martybegan (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


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What are you talking about? 

Actually only the 14 amendment incorporated the bill of rights to the States. 

The supremacy clause is about federal law overriding State laws, but only concerning powers given to the federal government. 

Now go to the blackboard, and write " I am a Constitutional dullard" 50 times.


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## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


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You seem to be factually incorrect.

Google


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## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Cutting Scotland lose will benefit Britain, by losing a huge drag on its economy and ejecting a huge majority of traditional Labor support.




Quick, then, inform Trump that doing business in Scotland is a losing proposition.....LOL


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## Pete7469 (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


> It is interesting to read his posts, and then your responses that have nothing to do with his posts.



I had to look at what you were responding to and the stupid of NYCrackhead was mindblowing...

These people would not be in our midst if there wasn't safety warnings and lids all over everything...

Let "people" like NYCrackhead walk into target and pick up a jar of fish eggs in sporting goods for $3.25 and "think" it's caviar. The producer could save 25 cents on 1000 lids by not having to stamp "Not For Human Consumption". Multiply that several thousands times and everyone saves.


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## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Cutting Scotland lose will benefit Britain, by losing a huge drag on its economy and ejecting a huge majority of traditional Labor support.
> ...



Lol, money can still be made in the EU and even Scotland. 

One can always rent out sheep for shagging.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

martybegan said:


> The supremacy clause is about federal law overriding State laws, but only concerning powers given to the federal government.
> 
> Now go to the blackboard, and write " I am a Constitutional dullard" 50 times.


Martybegan is a Constitutional dullard 50 times.

I fail to see the point.


----------



## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

Soggy in NOLA said:


> Most power under the U.S. Constitution, rests with the states. That's the model. It's the progressive retards that have slowly moved to an all empowered central authority. That is precisely what the Founders sought to avoid. But then, history seems to have never been your strong suit.




Its interesting that right wingers on here have all become "Constitutional scholars"......The reality may well be that the country envisioned by the Founders in the 18th century has little to do with the economic and social environment of the 21st century, both here and abroad.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't accepted that regressivism has been rejected. It never goes away. Regressives are like mooselimbs. They don't just give ground and stay away. They'll be working on getting the EU back in and punish them.
> ...



While some find the idea funny that the EU canmake life miserable for the UK, they have a history of doing such things to compel nations to join them or follow the EUs economic and immigration policies.


Google what the EU has been doing to poor little Switzerland.


----------



## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


> Trump is polling at 40%.
> 
> How can you claim to love a country where 40% of the people are willing to support someone was bad as you claim to believe Trump is?




Trump "popularity" is a direct correlation to hatred of Clinton......The general election should not be compared to the primaries....and most sane people know that.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Its interesting that right wingers on here have all become "Constitutional scholars"......The reality may well be that the country envisioned by the Founders in the 18th century has little to do with the economic and social environment of the 21st century, both here and abroad.



While there is little doubt that the Founding Fathers foresaw the current political, economic and  social reality of today, they did craft a very well designed Constitutional Republic (on the second try) and that Republic has a way of adapting itself to change through the amendment process and case law.

The did successfully foresee that there is NEVER a need for dictatorship and the loss of liberty for the people of America.


----------



## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Soggy in NOLA said:
> 
> 
> > Most power under the U.S. Constitution, rests with the states. That's the model. It's the progressive retards that have slowly moved to an all empowered central authority. That is precisely what the Founders sought to avoid. But then, history seems to have never been your strong suit.
> ...




So, Freedom of Speech is old fashioned? How about Freedom of Assembly? Or the Right to Trial By Jury?

Hell, what about DEMOCRACY? 


lol!!!


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Trump "popularity" is a direct correlation to hatred of Clinton......The general election should not be compared to the primaries....and most sane people know that.


The shallow knee jerk reaction of a political hack.

No, it isnt ALWAYS about Her Highness, Hillary Rodham of the royal house Clinton


----------



## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


> A cheaper pound will encourage exports, and discourage imports.




Yes, "band aids" are always the preferred remedy to gaping wounds....LOL


----------



## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Trump is polling at 40%.
> ...



I'm talking of Trump vs HIllary polls.


Do you consider Trump an "HItler" analogy as many of your fellow lefties claim to believe?


----------



## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > A cheaper pound will encourage exports, and discourage imports.
> ...




Because a better trade balancing and more jobs are not important.

To lefties.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



The left only concerns itself ultimately with BEING THE PARTY IN POWER, nothing else.


----------



## NoNukes (Jun 24, 2016)

martybegan said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > martybegan said:
> ...


I have lived here for 20 years and have talked to very few people who think it is a good idea. Most people want to let it be.


----------



## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


> So, Freedom of Speech is old fashioned? How about Freedom of Assembly? Or the Right to Trial By Jury?
> 
> Hell, what about DEMOCRACY?




Stupid "conclusion"...as expected.......Look at issues as described in the Fourth Amendment....applicable in the 18 century and anachronistic in the 21st.


----------



## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

JimBowie1958 said:


> The left only concerns itself ultimately with BEING THE PARTY IN POWER, nothing else.




As compared to the right that has NO ambition, and rules (whenever they get off their collective asses) altruistically????? LOL


----------



## Toro (Jun 24, 2016)

The SNP will run on having another referendum, and Scotland will leave the UK.


----------



## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

JimBowie1958 said:


> The shallow knee jerk reaction of a political hack.
> 
> No, it isnt ALWAYS about Her Highness, Hillary Rodham of the royal house Clinton




Oh yeah.........Out of a population of millions.....Your ilk has chosen an egotistical, clueless clown as the paragon of right wing mentality. Good luck with that.


----------



## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > So, Freedom of Speech is old fashioned? How about Freedom of Assembly? Or the Right to Trial By Jury?
> ...




Protection from unreasonable search and seizure is anachronistic? Search warrants are anachronistic?

Well. 

I have to respectfully disagree.

I have to admit that I expected a standard lib non-answer where you avoided or dodged the question.


Thank you for having the intellectual honesty to give me a real answer.


----------



## Zander (Jun 24, 2016)

Toro said:


> The SNP will run on having another referendum, and Scotland will leave the UK.



So,why is that bad?


----------



## Slyhunter (Jun 24, 2016)

JimBowie1958 said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > The did successfully foresee that there is NEVER a need for dictatorship and the loss of liberty for the people of America.


Actually this movie -->  shows a situation where a dictatorship might be required for the survival of the species.


----------



## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > The shallow knee jerk reaction of a political hack.
> ...




THe only information in that post was that you disagree with the choice of your political enemies.


Big deal.


----------



## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

Toro said:


> The SNP will run on having another referendum, and Scotland will leave the UK.




Scotland has long "itched" for a plausible excuse to be independent from London...They've just been handed the perfect "excuse" to do so.

Bear in mind that London and the majority of England's industrial cities voted to REMAIN in the EU.....This latest vote by rural England was strictly based on emotion.


----------



## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


> THe only information in that post was that you disagree with the choice of your political enemies.
> 
> 
> Big deal




Nah, not really.....I voted republican several times in my long-voting life....But you morons have given us Bush, Romney and Trump.......and sanity should overrule any partisanship.


----------



## JimH52 (Jun 24, 2016)

And good old Donnie has already said it us good for his business.  Screw the 401K owners, the little guy in the US.


----------



## martybegan (Jun 24, 2016)

JimBowie1958 said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > The supremacy clause is about federal law overriding State laws, but only concerning powers given to the federal government.
> ...



Somehow this was supposed to go NYCidiot, and didn't. hmmm...


----------



## martybegan (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Soggy in NOLA said:
> 
> 
> > Most power under the U.S. Constitution, rests with the states. That's the model. It's the progressive retards that have slowly moved to an all empowered central authority. That is precisely what the Founders sought to avoid. But then, history seems to have never been your strong suit.
> ...



Then amend the constitution to reflect those realities, don't use Judges to re-write it.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > The left only concerns itself ultimately with BEING THE PARTY IN POWER, nothing else.
> ...



Conservatives, aka 'reactionaries' have always been content with keeping things the same, except when they are manipulated by the Corporate Crony Network to continue cutting taxes for businesses while doing nothing to protect American jobs for Americans.


----------



## Toro (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> Keep in mind that in principle the UK leaving the European Union is comparable to, say, Texas leaving the US.



Not really.

The UK is a sovereign nation.  Texas is not.  Texas does not have its own currency, its own foreign service, its own head of state, etc.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

Slyhunter said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...


Other than emergency martial powers, a continuing state of dictatorship ALWAYS FAILS against a free and independent nation.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

Toro said:


> The UK is a sovereign nation.  Texas is not.  Texas does not have its own currency, its own foreign service, its own head of state, etc.


But we are working on that!


----------



## NYcarbineer (Jun 24, 2016)

Pete7469 said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > With yesterday's historic vote for England to leave the EU, many repercussions will inevitably follow and not many of them in the "positive" column.
> ...



IOW, let them cope better with GW Bush's destabilization of the Middle East?


----------



## NYcarbineer (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



The conservative Cameron is the one resigning.


----------



## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > The left only concerns itself ultimately with BEING THE PARTY IN POWER, nothing else.
> ...




No, as compared to the lefty who just dismissed the importance of  a better trade balancing and more jobs.

Which was you.

And you cut that portion of the quote tree.


To make a strawman.


Liberals: All the intellectual honesty of a crack whore.


----------



## Toro (Jun 24, 2016)

Zander said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > The SNP will run on having another referendum, and Scotland will leave the UK.
> ...



I didn't say it was good or bad.  

The topic of this thread is the breakup of the UK.  Brexit probably breaks up the UK.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Jun 24, 2016)

martybegan said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > Soggy in NOLA said:
> ...



Why don't YOU amend the Constitution to take the power of judicial review away from the Court?


----------



## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...



Because everything bad has to be America's fault, in the world view of the BLame American First crowd.


----------



## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

martybegan said:


> Then amend the constitution to reflect those realities, don't use Judges to re-write it.




Of course, THAT would be ideal....But it will NEVER happen as long as we don't  have term limits and basically whores to the lobbying pimps in DC.....Ergo, the only alternative is the fairly [still] independent courts.


----------



## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > bendog said:
> ...



ONe politician is nothing compared to a nation leaving the EU.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Jun 24, 2016)

Toro said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Keep in mind that in principle the UK leaving the European Union is comparable to, say, Texas leaving the US.
> ...



Uh, dumbass, Texas was a sovereign nation before it agreed to join our UNION.  As were all of the original sovereign states at the time of the Revolution.


----------



## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

JimBowie1958 said:


> But we are working on that!



PLEASE get on and do it....Maybe Mexico will take you in.


----------



## martybegan (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...



What we are seeing now is not judicial review, it is judicial legislating. 

I would make some comment about you not seeing it, but that would be a lie. OF COURSE you see it, you just notice that most of the re-writes suit you, so you allow the process to be subjugated in the interest of your own expediency.


----------



## Soggy in NOLA (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Soggy in NOLA said:
> 
> 
> > Most power under the U.S. Constitution, rests with the states. That's the model. It's the progressive retards that have slowly moved to an all empowered central authority. That is precisely what the Founders sought to avoid. But then, history seems to have never been your strong suit.
> ...



Nah, some things are pretty basic.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Then why are you nuts trying to blame this on Obama?


----------



## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > THe only information in that post was that you disagree with the choice of your political enemies.
> ...





So, twenty years?

Hard to believe you became such a lefty partisan in such a short time, but, whatever.


----------



## martybegan (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > Then amend the constitution to reflect those realities, don't use Judges to re-write it.
> ...



So basically because getting the changes you want is "hard", you have to circumvent the document using judges that agree with your politics?

Yeah, GREAT idea.


----------



## Soggy in NOLA (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



The EU is a market based entity, not a nation.  Good grief.


----------



## Kristian (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Currently the UK comprises 4 countries, and there are strong tendencies from countries such as Scotland and Northern Ireland to ALSO leave the tenuous compact to remain within the UK; this, coupled with the industrial sectors within England wanting to remain within the EU, will spell very hard economic times for the UK's future.





It is better within leaves EU for the British. The economic will grow faster next six year.


----------



## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...




I'm not doing that. Who is doing that?


----------



## NYcarbineer (Jun 24, 2016)

martybegan said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > martybegan said:
> ...



No.  You just don't like a judiciary that doesn't make the decisions you would prefer.  That's a partisan objection, not an objection on principle.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



So you want to go on record saying that your RW pals around here who are mocking this as a defeat for Obama are full of shit?

Proceed...


----------



## Toro (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



That's irrelevant to your argument. 

The UK is a sovereign country within a supranational economic and political structure created by treaties.  Texas is a state within a sovereign nation.  American states are not countries. 

Your analogy fails.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


> Liberals: All the intellectual honesty of a crack whore.


I think you owe an apology to all the crack whores out there.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...


Obama stuck his Dictator nose into the UKs Brexit debate where it did not belong and now we see it got cut, yet again.

Obama is not the fabulous wonderful Mind that the US media morons seem to think he is. His intervention probably cost the Remain vote a percent or two of the vote there.


----------



## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...




IT being his fault and it being a defeat for him are two distinct concepts.

This is an decision made by UK citizens for their nation.

BUT in doing that they have served up a stinging defeat for the type of Anti-nationalism the the Left has embraced, including Obama and HIllary.


----------



## BlackAsCoal (Jun 24, 2016)

*Scotland Seeks Independence Again After U.K. 'Brexit' Vote*
'Brexit' Triggers New Bid for Scottish Independence

*A divided kingdom: Will Scotland, Northern Ireland and even London now seek independence?*
A divided kingdom: Will Scotland, Northern Ireland and even London now seek independence?

.. and what now happens to all the US nukes?


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

Soggy in NOLA said:


> The EU is a market based entity, not a nation.  Good grief.



Well they are trying to make it into a nation via sleight of hand and back room deals.


----------



## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

martybegan said:


> So basically because getting the changes you want is "hard", you have to circumvent the document using judges that agree with your politics?
> 
> Yeah, GREAT idea.




Well, that's a dumb retort........Ask me how many supreme court decision I agree with since the partisan Scalia took it over? (and, YES, Scalia ran the SCOTUS)


----------



## Zander (Jun 24, 2016)

Toro said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...



 

Personally, I think we will see of a lot of secessionist movements gaining momentum over the next few years.  Culminating with the fall of the EU. 

Social mood has shifted from "building bridges" to "building walls".   We've had a huge reversal from "optimism" to "pessimism".


----------



## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Obama stuck his Dictator nose into the UKs Brexit debate where it did not belong and now we see it got cut, yet again.
> 
> Obama is not the fabulous wonderful Mind that the US media morons seem to think he is. His intervention probably cost the Remain vote a percent or two of the vote there.




Stupid "conclusion"......The vote was based on rural England inordinate fears of darkies coming in...Basically cutting their own noses to spite their collective faces....But, I wish England well.


----------



## martybegan (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



Actually I would prefer if Gay marriage is the law of the land in all States, however I do not see a mechanism for forcing the States to issue them via the federal courts, only a method of forcing them to accept marriages from other States. 

I would prefer if abortion was legal throughout the US, up to the start of the 3rd trimester for any reason, and for risks to the mother after, however again, I do not see a mechanism in the constitution that forces States to accept this. 

You mistake my criticism of the method for opposition for the results. As a strict constructional federalist, my desire for an outcome is overruled by my respect for the document as written and intended, particularly when it comes to the relegation of powers to the various levels of government, and the people.


----------



## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

Zander said:


> Social mood has shifted from "*building bridges" to "building walls"*. We've had a huge reversal from "optimism" to "pessimism".




Precisely the environment that led us into TWO world wars.


----------



## martybegan (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > So basically because getting the changes you want is "hard", you have to circumvent the document using judges that agree with your politics?
> ...



Again,see my post to NYCarb, my issue is usually not with end results, but with the process. and Scalia was as close to a strict constructionist as you will get, with the exception of Thomas.


----------



## Rustic (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > The SNP will run on having another referendum, and Scotland will leave the UK.
> ...


Fuck the EU... the rest of the world has been holding them up since the start... Shit for brains


----------



## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


> BUT in doing that they have served up a stinging defeat for the type of Anti-nationalism the the Left has embraced, including Obama and HIllary.




If your other half of your brain were functioning, you too would see that too much "nationalism" is the precursor of bloody wars.


----------



## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Obama stuck his Dictator nose into the UKs Brexit debate where it did not belong and now we see it got cut, yet again.
> ...




Tell that to the girls of Rotherham.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> The vote was based on rural England inordinate fears of darkies coming in...Basically cutting their own noses to spite their collective faces....But, I wish England well.


lol, everything is about racism to you libtards.

Even a vote to remain an independent nation and leave the EU is all about racism.

Look, numbnuts, the Muslims from Pakistan and India will continue to enter Britain as they are part of the Commonwealth. The Leave vote wanted to limit immigration from Eastern Euroepean nations like Bulgaria and Romania, not Pakistan, dumbass.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Jun 24, 2016)

martybegan said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > martybegan said:
> ...



No, they were just rightwing partisans whose decisions you agreed with.

'Legislating from the bench' is just a meaningless catchphrase that both sides use when the decision doesn't go their way.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > BUT in doing that they have served up a stinging defeat for the type of Anti-nationalism the the Left has embraced, including Obama and HIllary.
> ...


And nationalism is also the anti-dote to imperial schemes and dictatorial power mongering.


----------



## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

martybegan said:


> Again,see my post to NYCarb, my issue is usually not with end results, but with the process. and Scalia was as close to a strict constructionist as you will get, with the exception of Thomas.




There is much "interpretation" and subsequent biases in "strict constructionist" policies....and Thomas....almost by his own admission, was just a puppet to Scalia.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Jun 24, 2016)

martybegan said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > martybegan said:
> ...



States are required to have constitutional laws.  If you have a state marriage law, it has to be constitutional, and can be struck down if it is not.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Jun 24, 2016)

JimBowie1958 said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Hitler was the ultimate nationalist.


----------



## Zander (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> > Social mood has shifted from "*building bridges" to "building walls"*. We've had a huge reversal from "optimism" to "pessimism".
> ...



Your "pessimism"  proves my point!!


----------



## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > BUT in doing that they have served up a stinging defeat for the type of Anti-nationalism the the Left has embraced, including Obama and HIllary.
> ...




1. So, you admit that "anti-nationalism" is part of the modern lefty ideology. Thus my point about this being a defeat for Obama and Hillary.


2. Not wanting to submit to un-elected bureaucrats or building a Wall is hardly "too much nationalism".


----------



## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

JimBowie1958 said:


> And nationalism is also the anti-dote to imperial schemes and dictatorial power mongering.




Actually, precisely the other way around. Dictatorial governance is a direct result of too much nationalism...proof of that is the Axis before WWII.


----------



## martybegan (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...



No, it isn't.


----------



## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...


----------



## martybegan (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



Considering the constitution doesn't get into marriage contracts at all, yammering about it is meaningless.


----------



## martybegan (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > Again,see my post to NYCarb, my issue is usually not with end results, but with the process. and Scalia was as close to a strict constructionist as you will get, with the exception of Thomas.
> ...



Why don't you just call Thomas "Boy" while you are at it?


----------



## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


> So, you admit that "anti-nationalism" is part of the modern lefty ideology. Thus my point about this being a defeat for Obama and Hillary.




The above is a conclusion drawn from one of your lower orifices. Nationalism is what leads to first isolation and later, to civil unrest.


----------



## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

martybegan said:


> Why don't you just call Thomas "Boy" while you are at it?



Cheap shot....Check out how many decisions Thomas disagreed with Scalia...AND, how many rulings were actually written by Thomas.


----------



## Pete7469 (Jun 24, 2016)

martybegan said:


> What we are seeing now is not judicial review, it is judicial legislating.
> 
> I would make some comment about you not seeing it, but that would be a lie. OF COURSE you see it, you just notice that most of the re-writes suit you, so you allow the process to be subjugated in the interest of your own expediency.



I think you're giving it too much credit. He's a drone. Just a computer generated algorithm programmed to regurgitate democrook propaganda and untruths while completely ignoring the facts. I don't believe some of these posters are real people.

No one could be that stupid and actually live.


----------



## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > So, you admit that "anti-nationalism" is part of the modern lefty ideology. Thus my point about this being a defeat for Obama and Hillary.
> ...




So you seem to disagree with my point that anti-nationalism is part of the modern left's ideology in the SAME SENTENCE that you claim that nationalism leads to isolation and civil unrest?


Liberals: All the self awareness of a turnip.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> Hitler was the ultimate nationalist.


No, actually he was not, he was a Pan-German ethnic racist, quite the opposite of a Nationalist.

A nationalist respects the differences of various nations, like the Netherlands, Austria, the Sudetenland, Poland, etc, but Hitler had no respect for any of that, or any borders either.

In his mind if you spoke a Germanic language then you belonged in Germany, and if you spoke a Slavic language then you deserved nothing more than to be a serf to the superior Germanic people.

That is not nationalism, it is leftwing Eugenics posing as nationalism.

Hitler was an anti-Borders Leftwing Socialist, nothing more.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Jun 24, 2016)

JimBowie1958 said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Hitler was the ultimate nationalist.
> ...



You could not be more wrong.


----------



## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


> So you seem to disagree with my point that anti-nationalism is part of the modern left's ideology in the SAME SENTENCE that you claim that nationalism leads to isolation and civil unrest?
> 
> 
> Liberals: All the self awareness of a turnip.




Either you're being purposefully stupid...or you just do not even understand what your spewing.....a condition often found among right wingers overdosing on FOX.


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## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



And yet I give facts that back what I claim while you  simply dissent without explanation or facts to support your reflexive denials.


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## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > So you seem to disagree with my point that anti-nationalism is part of the modern left's ideology in the SAME SENTENCE that you claim that nationalism leads to isolation and civil unrest?
> ...


Correll is making sense while all you are doing is contradicting, obfuscating and distracting from the topic.


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## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > So you seem to disagree with my point that anti-nationalism is part of the modern left's ideology in the SAME SENTENCE that you claim that nationalism leads to isolation and civil unrest?
> ...





Nothing in your spin filled post addressed my point.


YOu attacked my claim that anti-nationalism is part of the modern Left's Ideology in the same sentence that you attacked nationalism as leading to isolation and civil unrest.


Anti-nationalism is part of the ideology of the Left and thus this vote was a defeat for the Left.


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## kaz (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Scotland is put to bed for a while as the referendum to leave was voted down. And protestant Northern Ireland reconnecting with Catholic Ireland? Dream on
> ...


None of the Scottish I knew during the referendum brought that up in terms of secession


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## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

kaz said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...


Scots are not generally known for bringing up relevant facts....more for their affinity for wearing skirts and following sheep up close.


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## kaz (Jun 24, 2016)

CowboyTed said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...



Interesting, I was just doing some reading and Scotland voted hugely to stay in the EU


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## Montrovant (Jun 24, 2016)

JimBowie1958 said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Hitler was the ultimate nationalist.
> ...



How do you define nationalism?

Put basically, isn't it a sense of pride, loyalty, or duty to your nation?  There is no need to respect other nations in nationalism, and in fact, one would probably put their own nation above all others as a nationalist.


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## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

JimBowie1958 said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Hitler was the ultimate nationalist.
> ...


*
What was the role of nationalism in Germany before the war?*

German nationalism that began to develop before World War II was a major motivation behind many individuals who joined the Nazi Party. Adolf Hitler, the leader of the Nazi Party, used his profound oratory skills to manipulate the German people into following his regime’s propaganda.  The people were looking for something to improve the economic situation caused by the depression.  The Nazi Party had a great propensity to purvey “mythical nationalist beliefs”; in 1933, they began deliberately blaming the Jewish population for the economic disparity in Germany


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## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

kaz said:


> Interesting, I was just doing some reading and Scotland voted hugely to stay in the EU




Indeed, an almost 2 to 1 majority in Scotland to remain part of the EU.


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## Kristian (Jun 24, 2016)

Brussels Brits in shock after UK vote to leave EU

USA or U.K. in Brussels is disagree when British or englishmen vote say no from EU.


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## Kristian (Jun 24, 2016)

Dj Adolf was as good some Nazism for Germany even he lose his kampf in end.


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## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

Kristian said:


> Brussels Brits in shock after UK vote to leave EU
> 
> USA or U.K. in Brussels is disagree when British or englishmen vote say no from EU.




From that Reuters article....


_Quitting the 28-nation bloc will, in general, deprive Britons of the right to work for the EU.

To join the 55,000-strong European civil service, staff must in general be EU citizens. So if someone loses EU citizenship, they might have to quit or face not having contracts renewed.

Some Britons have considered applying for Belgian passports as long-time residents or switching allegiance to the countries of their European spouses._


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## Kristian (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



I have now two Leftist in my house with neightboors. 1 new Bosniak. 1 old Finn. Socialism did not win in begin vs Nazi Germany but in late war in eastern front Nazi Germany will to retreat vs Soviet Union then United States and British follow Nazi Germany to end for Hitlers Nazi Germany. Strong begin wasn't enough.


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## Kristian (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Kristian said:
> 
> 
> > Brussels Brits in shock after UK vote to leave EU
> ...



2 year work to close British civilian worker in Brussels.


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## I amso IR (Jun 24, 2016)

Hitler is alive and well in the idea of the European Union. Briton got it right in saying, "we want to be British"! Inclusive in that statement are the words, "independent, national, self governing and self reliant". In general, those are good things, not bad. My point of view, only.


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## Kristian (Jun 24, 2016)

They will were(British) englishmen like old time wars.


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## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

Montrovant said:


> How do you define nationalism?
> 
> Put basically, isn't it a sense of pride, loyalty, or duty to your nation?  There is no need to respect other nations in nationalism, and in fact, one would probably put their own nation above all others as a nationalist.


Nationalism is far more than just a sentimental affection for the place one grew up.

Nationalism is a belief that the natural preference for people to form political states that group ethnicities of common language, or history or political ties is a far preferable basis for drawing national boundaries than simple ruling class preferences or those of the merchant class.

For example, an Austrian nationalist in the old pre-WW1 Austrian Empire would assert that the collection of ethnicities were much better off in the larger commonwealth of the Austrian empire and that its borders defined a collection of ethnicities whose common ties of opposition to Russian and Ottoman imperial ambitions, Catholicism, Hapsburg monarchy and western culture far outweighed the simplistic ethnic nationalities of the pan slavic racists that were at work to break them up and later validated these concerns with their massacres in recent Balkan wars and ethnic cleansing campaigns.

Nationalists can be Civic Nationalists.

Nationalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
_Civic nationalism (also known as liberal nationalism) defines the nation as an association of people who identify themselves as belonging to the nation, who have equal and shared political rights, and allegiance to similar political procedures.[40] According to the principles of civic nationalism, the nation is not based on common ethnic ancestry, but is a political entity whose core identity is not ethnicity. This civic concept of nationalism is exemplified by Ernest Renan in his lecture in 1882 "What is a Nation?", where he defined the nation as a "daily referendum" (frequently translated "daily plebiscite") dependent on the will of its people to continue living together.[40]

Civic nationalism is a kind of non-xenophobic nationalism that is claimed to be compatible with liberal values of freedom, tolerance, equality, and individual rights.[41][42][43] Ernest Renan[44] and John Stuart Mill[45] are often thought to be early liberal nationalists. Liberal nationalists often defend the value of national identity by saying that individuals need a national identity in order to lead meaningful, autonomous lives,[46][47] and that liberal democratic polities need national identity in order to function properly.[48][49]

Civic nationalism lies within the traditions of rationalism and liberalism, but as a form of nationalism it is contrasted with ethnic nationalism. Membership of the civic nation is considered voluntary, as inErnest Renan's "daily referendum" formulation in What is a Nation? Civic-national ideals influenced the development of representative democracy in countries such as the United States and France(see the United States Declaration of Independence of 1776, and the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen of 1789).
_
*And there are several other kinds of Nationalism aside from Civic and Ethnic nationalism, leftwing nationalism, religious nationalism, territorial and simplistic anticolonial nationalism.
*


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## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting, I was just doing some reading and Scotland voted hugely to stay in the EU
> ...



So bye-bye Scotland, cut em loose.


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## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> *What was the role of nationalism in Germany before the war?*
> 
> German nationalism that began to develop before World War II was a major motivation behind many individuals who joined the Nazi Party. Adolf Hitler, the leader of the Nazi Party, used his profound oratory skills to manipulate the German people into following his regime’s propaganda.  The people were looking for something to improve the economic situation caused by the depression.  The Nazi Party had a great propensity to purvey “mythical nationalist beliefs”; in 1933, they began deliberately blaming the Jewish population for the economic disparity in Germany



Lol, that is referring to ETHNIC NATIONALISM which is not the only kind of nationalism, dumbass.


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## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Kristian said:
> 
> 
> > Brussels Brits in shock after UK vote to leave EU
> ...



This will open far more than 55k jobs for native Brits and create even more.

People that vote with their bellies do not deserve independence any way, and right now the majority of Englishmen dont do that.


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## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Lol, that is referring to ETHNIC NATIONALISM which is not the only kind of nationalism, dumbass.




Sure, in your delusional and revisionist world, you can excise from "nationalism" the parts you DON'T like (or maybe you do) and keep the parts you want.......Too childish for most sane people....But, do carry on.


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## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

JimBowie1958 said:


> This will open far more than 55k jobs for native Brits and create even more.




Was the above taken out from one of Trump's speeches of empty promises???? LOL


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## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

JimBowie1958 said:


> So bye-bye Scotland, cut em loose.




So, let's call it then, "*Partially* United Kingdom"


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## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

First repercussion.....The AP is reporting that the British currency fell to a 31-year low today.

Tourism will increase to England because, like Greece, cost of goods and services will plummet.


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## Kristian (Jun 24, 2016)

Thanks Bowie you are Howie??


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## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Lol, that is referring to ETHNIC NATIONALISM which is not the only kind of nationalism, dumbass.
> ...





Not what he did.


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## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> First repercussion.....The AP is reporting that the British currency fell to a 31-year low today.
> 
> Tourism will increase to England because, like Greece, cost of goods and services will plummet.




Do you consider yourself a Patriot?


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## Unkotare (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> The w winners in England's secession from the EU.......Germany, France and Italy's industrial complexes




Or not


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## Kristian (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



Etnopluralism are old time racism.


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## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


> Do you consider yourself a Patriot?




That's none of your fucking business...although my service during the Vietnam fiasco IS my business.

Go on, put a dozen US flags out on July 4th, and declare yourself  a good "patriot"...because that is the level of your limited intelligence.


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## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Lol, that is referring to ETHNIC NATIONALISM which is not the only kind of nationalism, dumbass.
> ...


IT isnt just my opinion, dumbfuck, it is a FACT of the PUBLIC DOMAIN and I even gave you a linky for your brainy.


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## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


> Not what he did.


Do you really expect him to comprehend anything outside of his narrow set of known facts, things he thinks are facts and his very limited set of experiences in the world?

He cannot grasp that not all nationalism is Ethnic based nationalism.

That should tell you that he is barely literate, let alone unable to think outside of the scope of some old professors lectures.


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## JimBowie1958 (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Do you consider yourself a Patriot?
> ...


Translation; 'I know I am right because I am smarter than you.'

Yes, you are that simple minded.


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## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Do you consider yourself a Patriot?
> ...




As Nationalism is connected to the thread topic, your opinion on Patriotism is relevant.


Most liberals like to put down the very idea of patriotism. 

They LOVE that Mark Twain quote about Patriotism being the last refuge of the Scoundrel..


You've certainly attacked the very concept of nationalism.



Insulting my intelligence is not an answer.


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## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Not what he did.
> ...



No, I don't.

His style is pretty much what I have come to expect from lefties.


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## Montrovant (Jun 24, 2016)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> > How do you define nationalism?
> ...



That's all fine.  However, you said this, "A nationalist respects the differences of various nations".  I don't see how that fits into the definition of nationalism you have provided.  There is no need for someone to respect the differences of various nations to be a nationalist.


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## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

Montrovant said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Montrovant said:
> ...




There is also no need for a nationalist to NOT respect the differences of various nations.


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## Montrovant (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



Certainly.


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## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

JimBowie1958 said:


> IT isnt just my opinion, dumbfuck, it is a FACT of the PUBLIC DOMAIN and I even gave you a linky for your brainy.




Stay stupid...I really don't give a crap......This forum is NOT the venue to educate morons...Wallow in your shit.


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## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > IT isnt just my opinion, dumbfuck, it is a FACT of the PUBLIC DOMAIN and I even gave you a linky for your brainy.
> ...




Your "definition" of nationalism is a limited strawman designed to make you feel superior to those you disagree with.


Jim gave you a real definition of a version of nationalism that did not fit your pretend definition and you are having a meltdown.


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## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


> As Nationalism is connected to the thread topic, your opinion on Patriotism is relevant.
> 
> 
> Most liberals like to put down the very idea of patriotism.
> ...




I do NOT have to insult your "intelligence"....You do that on a daily basis.....

And if there's a grown up in your basement, ask him/her the difference between being a patriot and a nationalist.
I'm not here to educate morons (as I told your fellow idiot in an earlier post.)


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## nat4900 (Jun 24, 2016)

Correll said:


> Your "definition" of nationalism is a limited strawman designed to make you feel superior to those you disagree with.
> 
> 
> *Jim gave you a real definition of a version of nationalism* that did not fit your pretend definition and you are having a meltdown.




That because it is a faulty "definition" Sane people know it, you right wing morons do not......


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## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > As Nationalism is connected to the thread topic, your opinion on Patriotism is relevant.
> ...





I did not claim that they were the same.

You did not answer my question, and all you have done is insult me some more.



The EU was a flawed concept that hopefully will be dying soon.

It was a creation of and for the INterenational Political Elite that was shoving a number of bad policies down the throats of citizens against their will.

NOw, at least the UK can tell them to fuck off.


In this case Nationalism is about the interests of the Citizens, and Transnationalism is anti-democratic and abou the interests of the political class.


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## Correll (Jun 24, 2016)

nat4900 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Your "definition" of nationalism is a limited strawman designed to make you feel superior to those you disagree with.
> ...




Fine. You want to post a better definition with a link? 

You won't be able to find what you want, because your "definition" is a piece of self serving bullshit designed to serve the Lefty Anti-nationalism Ideology.


----------

