# Why do democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare?



## Redfish (Mar 30, 2017)

The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?


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## Redfish (Mar 30, 2017)

follow up question:   why do democrats support the organized murder of unborn black children through planned parenthood? 

Limit their numbers and keep them on the plantation.   Sounds like something from the KKK democrats of the 1800s.


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## Rocko (Mar 30, 2017)

No one breaks the cycle of poverty because of government handouts. That's a concept liberals don't get.


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## DOTR (Mar 30, 2017)

Democrats are about power. And keeping people poor and dependent is a way to stay in power. it is that simple. They can't threaten me over health care...I pay for my own. I dont care if government cuts food stamps, section 8, welfare or head start. That makes me an obstacle for them to overcome and they do it with their dependent class.
  Government handouts create serfs.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 30, 2017)

Rocko said:


> No one breaks the cycle of poverty because of government handouts. That's a concept liberals don't get.



yes, before liberals had their way with blacks the  black family was as intact as the white family!! Liberals have hollowed out America destroying its families, children, schools, churches, and workers.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

With how fast the middle class is shrinking you should be concerned for everyone.  I don't hear real answers from either party.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> With how fast the middle class is shrinking you should be concerned for everyone.  I don't hear real answers from either party.



what??? Republicans want to eliminate taxes regulations unions illegals to bring back 40 million jobs that liberals offshored. Now do you understand?


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## Eaglewings (Mar 30, 2017)

Redfish said:


> follow up question:   why do democrats support the organized murder of unborn black children through planned parenthood?
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> Limit their numbers and keep them on the plantation.   Sounds like something from the KKK democrats of the 1800s.




So Redfish you want the black babies to be born, but don't want to feed, or cloth them until they are able to themselves..I am a pro life democrat who also believes in what happens after the baby is born..

Maybe you can throw them a crumb every now and then..


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 30, 2017)

Eaglewings said:


> So Redfish you want the black babies to be born, but don't want to feed, or cloth them until they are able to themselves



correct when govt took the father role it destroyed the black family. Do you understand?


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


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> > With how fast the middle class is shrinking you should be concerned for everyone.  I don't hear real answers from either party.
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We've trIed that.  It all goes to the rich.  Taxes are at historic lows.  Unions are in deep decline.  The middle class shrinks.   The rich sent jobs to china.  The rich hire immigrants.  How dumb are you?

Make American great again?  We need strong unions.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> We've trIed that.  It all goes to the rich.  Taxes are at historic lows..



don't be absurd stupid and liberal. Our Corporate taxes are highest in world and top 1% pay 40% of all income tax, also highest in world!!! Now do you understand?


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## Rexx Taylor (Mar 30, 2017)

isnt this 1966 as we speak?


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


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Many big corporations pay zero taxes.  The rich pay so much because they take all the income.  Want to fix wages?  Make unions strong.  Want to fix immigration?  Make unions strong.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

However this is not the story everywhere. Other wealthy countries have considerably lower poverty rates than the United States. There are a variety of factors that affect poverty rates but one that stands out is the power of unions. There is a very strong inverse relationship between the percentage of workers who are covered by a union contract and the poverty rate as measured by the OECD.[1]

Unions: The Best Fix to Poverty


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Many big corporations pay zero taxes.


yes exactly!!! They move off shore to avoid the highest taxes in world!!!! 1+1=2, Brain-2


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> The rich pay so much because they take all the income. .



too stupid!!! They don't take it they earn it from doing business all over the newly globalized world. The middle class don't want to steal money from the rich at gun point but rather earn their own money once stupid liberals get off their backs!! Its not a zero sum game. Do you understand???


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## Wyatt earp (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> However this is not the story everywhere. Other wealthy countries have considerably lower poverty rates than the United States. There are a variety of factors that affect poverty rates but one that stands out is the power of unions. There is a very strong inverse relationship between the percentage of workers who are covered by a union contract and the poverty rate as measured by the OECD.[1]
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> Unions: The Best Fix to Poverty




LMFAO which universe you live in?


Here in the real world the facts speak for themselves... 


Even ultra liberal Bono knows what's the best answer to fight poverty 


Bono: 'Capitalism Takes More People Out of Poverty Than Aid'




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## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Make unions strong.  .



unions should be illegal again since they distort the free market, punish consumers and drove 20 million jobs offshore . Unions destroyed our auto industry, now we have a huge new auto industry that is foreign owned and operates in free Trump supporting southern states.1+1=2


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> Bono: 'Capitalism Takes More People Out of Poverty Than Aid'
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exactly the instant China switched to it 40% of all the planets poverty was eliminated. LIberals simply lack the IQ to understand capitalism


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> However this is not the story everywhere. Other wealthy countries have considerably lower poverty rates than the United States. There are a variety of factors that affect poverty rates but one that stands out is the power of unions. There is a very strong inverse relationship between the percentage of workers who are covered by a union contract and the poverty rate as measured by the OECD.[1]
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> Unions: The Best Fix to Poverty



unions raise prices so no net gain is possible. How does driving 20 million jobs off shore and raising prices fight poverty rather than create it?????


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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*
We've trIed that. It all goes to the rich. Taxes are at historic lows.*

Ummm....the top tax rate is almost 40%.
In 1988, it was 28%. DERP!


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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*Many big corporations pay zero taxes.*

Only the ones that have zero profits.

Or ones that get large "green energy" handouts.

*Want to fix wages?  Make unions strong.  Want to fix immigration?  Make unions strong.*

Let's just kill the unions, build the wall and boot 15 million illegals.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


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And as unions have declined, so has the middle class.  Go figure.  When you going to come back to reality?


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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And you still won't have wages.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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Nobody is paying 40%.  Step into reality.


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## Timmy (Mar 30, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?



Hold on.  You think the republicans are for black families!?   Lol!

There's a reason the GOP sucks with minorities.  It's because you are the party of racists .  And that's a deal breaker .


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Unions worked.  We were great with unions.  Tariffs have never worked.  Why do republicans want us to fail?


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## Wyatt earp (Mar 30, 2017)

Timmy said:


> Redfish said:
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> > The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?
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Prove it in the year 2017? ....the North is way more racist and segregated today then the south is today.. 



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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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Supply and demand....complicated. LOL!


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## Clementine (Mar 30, 2017)

Eaglewings said:


> So Redfish you want the black babies to be born, but don't want to feed, or cloth them until they are able to themselves..I am a pro life democrat who also believes in what happens after the baby is born..
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> Maybe you can throw them a crumb every now and then..
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> View attachment 119450View attachment 119451



You just laid out the liberal view in a nutshell.    You will never believe that blacks can possibly survive on their own, let alone take care of their own families.    Of course, the nanny government has done a bang up job of convincing some that they can't.  

Maybe if you guys focused on encouraging people instead of pushing the entitlement and victimhood mentality, people would actually pull themselves up.    Of course, nothing destroys a liberal politician's career like independent voters.   No way any Dems will ever fess up to the fact that their policies are specifically designed to keep people under their wing


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## NYcarbineer (Mar 30, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?



Since there are far more whites than blacks on welfare in America, why are you going the racist angle?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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Singles earning over $415K,
Married filing jointly earning over $467K,
Head of households earning over $441K...do.


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## Wyatt earp (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Unions worked.  We were great with unions.  Tariffs have never worked.  Why do republicans want us to fail?




Learn history,  what built this nation in the first 100 plus years was tariffs.. 


My opinion is it won't work today,  but I am not ignorant to history as you are. 


Yes we were great with unions until the world caught up in the 1980s and finished rebuilding after WWII,  the only way you can have it your way is with tariffs and Unions could be great again. 




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## Wyatt earp (Mar 30, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Redfish said:
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95% vote for democrats and against their wallets ....

Democrats enslaving blacks never ended..


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## NYcarbineer (Mar 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


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95% of black Americans aren't poor you imbecile.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Unions worked.  We were great with unions.  Tariffs have never worked.  Why do republicans want us to fail?



unions worked after ww2 when we had the only industry left standing in the entire world and Democrats let the unions organize to rip off consumers with higher prices
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## DOTR (Mar 30, 2017)

Eaglewings said:


> So Redfish you want the black babies to be born, but don't want to feed, or cloth them



   I'm with redfish then. I don't want to feed and clothe them either. I've got my own which I keep fed and clothed. 




Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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No they don't.  They pay far less.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


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We are still getting ripped off without unions, how can you blame them?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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Over those levels, they pay 39.6% on income.


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## Eaglewings (Mar 30, 2017)

Clementine said:


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> > So Redfish you want the black babies to be born, but don't want to feed, or cloth them until they are able to themselves..I am a pro life democrat who also believes in what happens after the baby is born..
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Dude you are talking to the wrong person dear...I was a counselor in a home to get pregnant addicted women off of the streets and to have a healthy baby..they helped and taught them how to raise the baby and put them into school for a GED
Have you ever seen an addicted baby?

Everything you said is what you all tell yourselves to be able to turn the other way..

I am not saying to pay for the lazy ass couch potatoes , or drug addicts who want to continue... Your party just took school lunch away from a kid at school and 1 meal a day for an old person... That is about as low as you can go...

Do not talk to me about helping them to be victims, and this is not just black people having babies who will go hungry..

You all don't give a shit about the baby, it is a Oh look at what a christian I am by voting no on abortions...

Yeah that is all fine and dandy, but there is much more to be done raising a baby... Pisses me off a lot..

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## Rexx Taylor (Mar 30, 2017)

Democrats hate everybody,,period....unless of course u are a millionaire who will happily hand u some cash under the table.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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That is funny.  So you are not aware of deductions?


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## LeftofLeft (Mar 30, 2017)

Eaglewings said:


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> > follow up question:   why do democrats support the organized murder of unborn black children through planned parenthood?
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Maybe you people should stop the layers bureaucracy, unions, and cronies that need to be paid before the poor get their money.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

LeftofLeft said:


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When unions were strong people did get paid.


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## LeftofLeft (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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Why are you shifting the goal posts to people getting paid? I thought you were talking about taking care of the poor?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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Are you not aware that taxes are paid on income, after deductions are taken?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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DERP!


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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But when you start to slice that group further -- all the way up to the top 0.001 percent -- you'll notice that the effective tax rate falls steadily to 17.60 percent at the very top.
As the rich become super-rich, they pay lower taxes. For real.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

LeftofLeft said:


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Unions: The Best Fix to Poverty


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## Doc1 (Mar 30, 2017)

LBJ said it best : *"I’ll have those n*ggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years."*

It's as simple as that.


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## Eaglewings (Mar 30, 2017)

LeftofLeft said:


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Maybe we should be looking at the full time $170,000 a year pay the congress gets for working 170 days..

Vacations
Premium healthcare which includes home health nurses long term
Payoffs to vote a certain way


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## LeftofLeft (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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Again, you are trying to shift the conversation. I am not anti-union. However, when the unions start mandating twinkies and cupcakes on the same distribution route be handled by two different trucks, you've reached the egregious overreaching zone and ALL jobs go away. Learn about optimization and stop worshiping the absolute.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

LeftofLeft said:


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I'm not saying they are perfect.  But they have proven to be necessary for a strong middle class.  If we want to fix poverty, we need to bring them back strong.


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## LeftofLeft (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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Then they should not be taking from those funds intended for the poor. This would be a first step towards perfection.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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Lots of rich people have capital gains.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

LeftofLeft said:


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They would create good paying jobs so the poor aren't poor.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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First let's eliminate all government unions.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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Yes they have lots of ways to cheat the tax man, that is my point.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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Your point is they take capital gains....and that's cheating? LOL!
You're funny.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

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Yes eliminate all the good paying jobs.  Great idea.  Lets throw money at private schools where teachers make less.  Let's promote right to work for less so non union auto workers can make less than union workers.  Republicans can't promote lower wages enough.


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## Doc1 (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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You are living in the early 1900's. The Markets and the Employers have evolved well beyond that bullshit. The market determines wages, the fact that YOU do not know that reveals that you have never owned a business.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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*Yes eliminate all the good paying jobs.*

Government employees need unions to have good paying jobs?
Please explain that logic.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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How is that funny?  They don't pay your imaginary 39%.  CEO's get paid millions, much in stocks so they don't have to pay income tax.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Doc1 said:


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Yes republicans have been saying that since the 80's as the middle class declines.  Working out real well.


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## Doc1 (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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You've never owned or ran a business, you don't know shit. Typical Lefty, you need a Gov or a Union to do what you can't do.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

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It seems you don't know shit. For 40 years republicans been preaching against unions.  That has crushed the middle class.  Now that is a fact.


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## Doc1 (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 

It is what it is boy. Go have Obama change your diaper.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 30, 2017)

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*How is that funny? They don't pay your imaginary 39%.*

Your ignorance is funny.
Go back and read my comments.
They pay that rate on their INCOME. I could explain the difference between capital gains and income,
but based on your previous contributions to the thread, it would go over your head.
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CEO's get paid millions, much in stocks so they don't have to pay income tax.*

When a CEO gets paid in stock, that's income. DERP.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Doc1 said:


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So you have no defense.  Didn't think so.


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## Doc1 (Mar 30, 2017)

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Nope. Sorry, you worry about clocking out or in one minute early. The fact is this kid, lazy people need/want unions. They want to as little as they can do and make as much as they can make. Industrious people work hard, get ahead, and make more because they earn it. You are Leftwing ,lazy excrement.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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But when you start to slice that group further -- all the way up to the top 0.001 percent -- you'll notice that the effective tax rate falls steadily to 17.60 percent at the very top.
As the rich become super-rich, they pay lower taxes. For real.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Doc1 said:


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And the middle class disappears.  As does our greatness.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

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Killing the middle class has been great for economic growth and increasing the debt.  Bravo!


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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The super rich get most of their earnings from capital gains, not income. DERP!


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## Doc1 (Mar 30, 2017)

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Our problem is not the deunionization  of the workforce. Our problem is your kind who think that everybody else owes you something. Yes our middle class is disappearing, but you aren't smart enough to know that your side has been in charge just as much as our side and it's still happening. You've swallowed their bullshit and just keep coming back for more. Me? When I need more I make changes. When I want more I earn it. I'd never hire a man like you, you're lazy.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

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And they only pay 17.60 percent.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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But enough about Obama's 8 years.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

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haha  I work more than you could ever imagine.  But you aren't very bright, you talk out of your ass.

Your policies have slowed our economy greatly.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

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Start with Reagan.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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They pay 15% on their long-term capital gains and 39.6% on their income over $467K.


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## Doc1 (Mar 30, 2017)

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Sure you do, and yet here you are whining about how much you don't make. My policies have built two agencies from the ground up. I did it by hiring people who unlike you aren't afraid to work and do what it takes to be successful. My policies make me pay more taxes and pay more for employees than you could possibly know. Here's the thing kid, you think wages are all that there is. You haven't a clue.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 30, 2017)

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Massive growth in the economy, huge increase in jobs, massive tax cuts and big increases in income, across the board. That was Reagan.

How many of those things did Obama give us?
I mean he did have the weakest recovery since, forever practically.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

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Please quote where I have done that at all.  You seem to talk out of your ass and just straight make shit up.

I am smart enough to recognize that destroying the middle class has slowed our entire economy.  And my business would make more with a strong economy.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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And Reagan began the decline of the middle class while greatly increasing the debt.  Not a good combo.


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## Doc1 (Mar 30, 2017)

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You don't own a business kid. If you aren't begging for the Unions to get you more money what are you whining about? You don't seem to be able to follow a conversation in a linear manner, do I need to slow down for you? Should I use smaller words?


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## Doc1 (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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.....and no doubt you think Jimmy was your champion...


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

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You didn't quote anything.  Ah yes, you are just making shit up. 

I would like to see our country and economy strong again.  You just care about yourself.  Of course if you really own a business you too would be better off with a strong economy.  But you are not smart enough to see that.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

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Well Clinton beat Reagan in pretty much every aspect.  But I'm really interested in fixing the future.  This war on unions has slowed our economy.


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## Doc1 (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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LOL. Kid you're ignorant. The Unions/Govt do not/cannot make a strong economy. A man who only cares about himself is like you. Me? I pay them what they are worth and what they earn which is ALWAYS determined by their own efforts. You need someone to dictate what and how you earn what you earn. That is a weak and  ineffectual man. People make a strong economy, and they do it when it when they get the Govt and the Unions out of the way. You earn your "wage" kid, I'll pay my people what they are worth.


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## Care4all (Mar 30, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


uhhhh....hmmm.... in 1986 it was 50% and now it is 39%, in 1980 it was 70% and now it's 39%

Historical Rates

*39.6 percent:* Top tax rate in 2000

*31 percent:* Top tax rate in 1991

*50 percent:* Top tax rate in 1986

*70 percent:* Top tax rate in 1980

*91 percent*: Top tax rate in 1963

*84.4 percent:* Top tax rate in 1950

*94 percent:* Top tax rate in 1945


----------



## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Doc1 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Doc1 said:
> ...



Yes getting the unions out of the way has worked great.  You are a weak man, you won't admit when you have been wrong.


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## Wyatt earp (Mar 30, 2017)

Care4all said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




Can you now figure out why?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...











Looks like Reagan did more for the middle class than Obama.
And added a massive $1.6 trillion to the debt, compared to Obama's tiny addition of $9.3 trillion.


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## Wyatt earp (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Doc1 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




Either that or the entire country ending up like Detroit and no jobs



.


----------



## Doc1 (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Doc1 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Sure kid. Of course you are always correct, just ask you. Tell me, do you have your Union Local Number tattooed on your arm? My people make a lot of money, but see they EARN it. You? You want it given to you. Go cry to Obambi.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 30, 2017)

Care4all said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



*uhhhh....hmmm.... in 1986 it was 50% and now it is 39%, in 1980 it was 70% and now it's 39%
*
It's weird, you left out 1988 when the top rate was 28%.
Saying 39.6% is historically low is moronic. Liberal math.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Doc1 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Doc1 said:
> ...



There you go talking out your ass again.  Not something smart people do.


----------



## The Original Tree (Mar 30, 2017)

It's the same strategy The Roman Empire employed with the common people of Rome using wheat rations, bread and circuses.

This was given the common people to keep them appeased and to support a caste system in Rome keeping the Elites, Patrons and The Senate and Roman Administrators and Politicos at the top, and only allowing limited upward mobility....mostly for soldiers and no one else.

47% of The American People pay ZERO Taxes. The poor in the US have one of the greatest standards of living in the world.  They are appeased and have no desire towards upward mobility and this is by design.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Historically they are low.
http://static1.businessinsider.com/...elative-to-history-its-currently-very-low.jpg


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## danielpalos (Mar 30, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?


It only seems that way because the right has nothing but repeal instead of better solutions at lower cost.


----------



## Doc1 (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Doc1 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



 Sure thing kid  Smart or no, my people and I make money. We earn it. Do you need me to change your diaper?


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Doc1 said:
> ...


Detroit was selling shit cars.  Pinto?


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Doc1 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Doc1 said:
> ...



I probably make more than you.  haha


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## Doc1 (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



All made by you Union Kids no?


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## Doc1 (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Doc1 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Sure kid, and your dick is bigger too?


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Doc1 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...


They didn't design them or decide what models to build.  Nobody could make a pinto a good car.


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## Doc1 (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Doc1 said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
> ...



But you union kids made them and proudly cashed your checks. Get lost kid.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Doc1 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Doc1 said:
> ...



Hey you are the one who insists on talking about yourself.  I'm just laughing at you.  Show your taxes and prove something or stfu.


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## The Original Tree (Mar 30, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> > So Redfish you want the black babies to be born, but don't want to feed, or cloth them until they are able to themselves
> ...



That's called Benevolent Paternalism.

It is a strategy employed after Emancipation to encourage Former Slaves to stay on The Plantation.

Benevolent Paternalism is roughly translated as The Kind and Fatherly Slave Master.

The Fatherly Slave Master provides food shelter and clothing for his children in exchange for their loyalty and labor.


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## Doc1 (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Doc1 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Sorry kid, you like most your age are nothing more than a whiny ass who depends on someone else to take care of you. Yu proudly made those Pinto's and Gremlin's and cashed your checks. Don't blame anyone else kid, if you'd had integrity you'd have said no and went to work somewhere else.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...



39.6 / 28= 141.4%
More than 41% higher than in 1988.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Doc1 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Doc1 said:
> ...



And the execs take no responsibility.  Go away kid.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Doc1 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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> > Doc1 said:
> ...



No responsibility for the people who gave the go to build such crappy cars.  Go figure.


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## Doc1 (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Doc1 said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I fault you kid. YOU made them. If you had stood up and said NO they couldn't have had them made. Do you find it interesting that you cannot take responsibility for anything? No integrity, no responsibility, just cashing your checks and blaming others for everything.


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## Wyatt earp (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Doc1 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...





W. Edwards Deming - Wikipedia
Deming's teachings and philosophy are clearly illustrated by examining the results they produced after they were adopted by Japanese industry, as the following example shows. Ford Motor Company was simultaneously manufacturing a car model with transmissions made in Japan and the United States. Soon after the car model was on the market[_when?_], Ford customers were requesting the model with Japanese transmission over the US-made transmission, and they were willing to wait for the Japanese model. As both transmissions were made to the same specifications, Ford engineers could not understand the customer preference for the model with Japanese transmission. Finally, Ford engineers decided to take apart the two different transmissions. The American-made car parts were all within specified tolerance levels. On the other hand, the Japanese car parts were virtually identical to each other, and much closer to the nominal values for the parts—e.g., if a part was supposed to be one foot long, plus or minus 1/8 of an inch—then the Japanese parts were all within 1/16 of an inch, less variation. This made the Japanese cars run more smoothly and customers experienced fewer problems.[9]
Deming's teachings and philosophy are clearly illustrated by examining the results they produced after they were adopted by Japanese industry, as the following example shows. Ford Motor Company was simultaneously manufacturing a car model with transmissions made in Japan and the United States. Soon after the car model was on the market[_when?_], Ford customers were requesting the model with Japanese transmission over the US-made transmission, and they were willing to wait for the Japanese model. As both transmissions were made to the same specifications, Ford engineers could not understand the customer preference for the model with Japanese transmission. Finally, Ford engineers decided to take apart the two different transmissions. The American-made car parts were all within specified tolerance levels. On the other hand, the Japanese car parts were virtually identical to each other, and much closer to the nominal values for the parts—e.g., if a part was supposed to be one foot long, plus or minus 1/8 of an inch—then the Japanese parts were all within 1/16 of an inch, less variation. This made the Japanese cars run more smoothly and customers experienced fewer problems.[9]


----------



## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Doc1 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Doc1 said:
> ...



Sorry but I have never worked making cars.  There is a lot wrong with you and making things up.  You should try honesty.

The execs hired the engineers and designers and made all the decisions.  Those building the cars aren't supposed to know if the model will sell or not, the build the cars.  The execs failed Detroit.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Yes some exec thought the above was a good idea.


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## Doc1 (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Doc1 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



You're just a child who makes excuses for everything. "It's not my fault". Integrity demands saying NO to inferior products kid. You don't have any and you never will. In my business I am the gate keeper. It has to get through me to get to my people. If it's shit I say no. Try it, it feels good to protect people.


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## Doc1 (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Yes some exec thought the above was a good idea.



And someone JUST like you decided that his "pay check" was more important than a quality product. You are dismissed punk.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Doc1 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Doc1 said:
> ...



The execs failed, that is clear.  You however are making excuses and whining.  The union workers should have designed, engineered, marketed... You are a joke.  I guess they should have done everything and the execs have no responsibility.  I think you need a new bottle.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Doc1 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes some exec thought the above was a good idea.
> ...



Yes the workers trusted the very high paid execs knew what they were doing.  Go figure.


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## Wyatt earp (Mar 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Doc1 said:
> ...




What's so funny Brian if you don't know who turned around us manufacturing 



Aka the the Q. C.  God Mr. Deming you are an idiot  and never worked a day in your life in a plant.


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## Doc1 (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Doc1 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



(smile) I say no when it's a shit product, you cash your check and blame others.


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## Wyatt earp (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Doc1 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




Who builds the cars idiot?  Any company I worked for in the past 30 years, any worker can stop production because of crap parts being made.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I never claimed to have worked in a plant.  I am quite well educated and own my own business.


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## Doc1 (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Doc1 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Kid you've been bested, get some integrity.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Doc1 said:
> ...



Nobody was going to make an Aztek a good car.  The execs picked an ugly ass design.


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Doc1 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Doc1 said:
> ...



Sure.  No responsibility for the high paid execs.  Cute.


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## Doc1 (Mar 30, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Doc1 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Kid, go to bed. You look bad here.


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## AntonToo (Mar 30, 2017)

Redfish said:


> *Why do democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare?*



*Why do you like to touch little kids on the peepee?*


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## Brain357 (Mar 30, 2017)

Doc1 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Doc1 said:
> ...



You are proving everything that is wrong with our economy now.  The execs make all the money and are not held responsible for failure even thought they make all the decisions.  Too funny.


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## JBond (Mar 30, 2017)

DOTR said:


> Democrats are about power. And keeping people poor and dependent is a way to stay in power. it is that simple. They can't threaten me over health care...I pay for my own. I dont care if government cuts food stamps, section 8, welfare or head start. That makes me an obstacle for them to overcome and they do it with their dependent class.
> Government handouts create serfs.


I do not agree with everything you posted, but I understand politics. One party creates new massive plantations, the other forces people to fight for security, independence. I wish people would stop asking us to pay for the screw ups.


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## JBond (Mar 30, 2017)

antontoo said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > *Why do democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare?*
> ...


Hopefully this ass is kicked off. Liberals always accuse others to protect their behavior. They make it the norm. Men in little girls showers and bathrooms.


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## Eaglewings (Mar 30, 2017)

The Original Tree said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Eaglewings said:
> ...



Anyone who works in the newborn babies dept., foster families, homes for mothers call this save the fetus but who gives a shit after it is born, is a complete idiot..

Pence walks around like he is the messiah , while he cuts food, shelter to these children..

Once they are old enough, they can take care of themselves...Fuck the people who walk around with signs and talk their talk on the internet..

Get out there and help raise those crack babies


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## Yesyayah (Mar 30, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?



LMBO!   Typical uneducated righty comment...there are more white folks on welfare/food stamps!  Omg- gotta share this humorous post!


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## Yesyayah (Mar 30, 2017)

JBond said:


> antontoo said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Better a transgender in the bathroom than a hate-filled bigot any day.


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## danielpalos (Mar 31, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Proof that we are not in real times of war if we can afford to lower tax rates on the rich.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Time of war? Against the JV team? DERP!


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## rightwinger (Mar 31, 2017)

What have Republicans ever done for minority neighborhoods other than to build more prisons?


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## Rustic (Mar 31, 2017)

Eaglewings said:


> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


You sound like a pussy whipped bitch…


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## Cellblock2429 (Mar 31, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?



/---- Dems are still sore at Abe Lincoln for freeing their slaves.


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## Cellblock2429 (Mar 31, 2017)

Eaglewings said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > follow up question:   why do democrats support the organized murder of unborn black children through planned parenthood?
> ...



/---- Why don't the parents feed and clothe their children?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

Yesyayah said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?
> ...



*Typical uneducated righty comment...there are more white folks on welfare/food stamps!*

Educate that mean righty!!!

Post the number of whites and blacks on welfare/food stamps.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> What have Republicans ever done for minority neighborhoods other than to build more prisons?



Dems would prefer the criminals remain free to further victimize the minority neighborhoods.


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## Brain357 (Mar 31, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > What have Republicans ever done for minority neighborhoods other than to build more prisons?
> ...



You failed to answer the question.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Are more prisons bad for minority neighborhoods?


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## Brain357 (Mar 31, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



A question doesn't answer a question.  You sure are shady.


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## rightwinger (Mar 31, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > What have Republicans ever done for minority neighborhoods other than to build more prisons?
> ...




Republicans are so considerate

No problem building prisons....It is schools they despise


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## The Original Tree (Mar 31, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > What have Republicans ever done for minority neighborhoods other than to build more prisons?
> ...



All that welfare and food stamps and half a million illegals having their every want and need fulfilled by The Federal And State Government in Chicago has sure made Murder City a Utopian Paradise for Everyone.

Why have abortion even, when you can just move people in to Chicago to die?


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## Eaglewings (Mar 31, 2017)

Rustic said:


> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> > The Original Tree said:
> ...



*Why Rustic?  You all love to show the fetus...but then ignore the needs of a child's medical care, and raising that baby... I worked in this field *

Crack babies.. born addicted






Broken Foster care system








Abandoned downs syndrome, physically/ mentally challenged   children

Extreme adoption laws in the US


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I understand that you don't want to answer.


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## Brain357 (Mar 31, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



I understand that you can't answer.


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## Soggy in NOLA (Mar 31, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Winner winner, chicken dinner.


----------



## NoNukes (Mar 31, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?


Why do conservatives want them off of welfare without creating employment for them?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



We lacking schools anywhere?
Here in Chicago, the Democrats are closing schools.


----------



## NoNukes (Mar 31, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> > No one breaks the cycle of poverty because of government handouts. That's a concept liberals don't get.
> ...


You are delusional.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Limiting liberal idiocy is a benefit for minority neighborhoods.

Now should we release all those criminals and close the prisons, to help minority neighborhoods or not?


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## Brain357 (Mar 31, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Money is being moved away from schools.


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## Brain357 (Mar 31, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



So what have repubs ever done to benefit minority neighborhoods?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



In Chicago? LOL!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Deported criminal illegal aliens.

Weird that Dems are against anything that protects minorities from criminals.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

NoNukes said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Rocko said:
> ...



Ed is usually delusional, but in this case, correct.


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## Brain357 (Mar 31, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Haven't heard anyone against deporting criminals.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Just every sanctuary city mayor. Pretty sure they're all Dems.


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## Brain357 (Mar 31, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Link one who wants to keep criminals.


----------



## jc456 (Mar 31, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> With how fast the middle class is shrinking you should be concerned for everyone.  I don't hear real answers from either party.


only the dems want illegals taking american citizen jobs.  Unless you have a link that shows differently!


----------



## Brain357 (Mar 31, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > With how fast the middle class is shrinking you should be concerned for everyone.  I don't hear real answers from either party.
> ...



So you think kicking out a few immigrants is going to make some huge difference?  Funny.  Those really low paid job openings will be great.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


_
In November 2014, ICE __changed__ its detainer program._

_For most cases, ICE now gives law enforcement requests to be notified when a suspected unauthorized immigrant is set to be released. The facility is not asked to hold the person for extra time. ICE can still issue a detainer if it is signed by a judge, and uses that tactic for cases involving serious offenses._

_Following the change, the number of detainers refused by San Diego’s jail dropped to 12.2 percent in fiscal 2015. San Francisco’s jail refused 20.7 percent that year._

Accused of being an immigrant 'sanctuary,' San Diego could lose funding under Trump


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## rightwinger (Mar 31, 2017)

Dems offer many programs to help not just minorities, but the poor in general to get off of welfare

Educational grants, jobs training, Planned Parenthood, minority small business set asides, affirmative action, childcare services

ALL opposed by Republicans


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



*So you think kicking out a few immigrants is going to make some huge difference?*

Kicking out millions of illegal aliens will make a difference.


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## Soggy in NOLA (Mar 31, 2017)

The democrats have had their boots on the necks of minorities for centuries.  It's what they do.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Dems offer many programs to help not just minorities, but the poor in general to get off of welfare
> 
> Educational grants, jobs training, Planned Parenthood, minority small business set asides, affirmative action, childcare services
> 
> ALL opposed by Republicans



*Dems offer many programs to help not just minorities, but the poor in general to get off of welfare*

Obama was awesome for the black community.
Show us all how many fewer blacks are on welfare at the end of Obama's 8 years, compared to the beginning.


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## jc456 (Mar 31, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


funny, how many illegals are in the country?  11 million.  a couple, too funny the lack of knowledge you have.  You da man though, you have it all figured out.  Just like them sanctuary city mayors who piss on their constituents.  wow.  just wow.


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## Soggy in NOLA (Mar 31, 2017)

The democrats.. from slavery to the KKK.... it's what they do.


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## Brain357 (Mar 31, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



The lowest paid of the low paid.  You are funny.


----------



## Soggy in NOLA (Mar 31, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



That one's so dumb he can't differentiate between immigrants and illegal aliens.


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## jc456 (Mar 31, 2017)

Soggy in NOLA said:


> The democrats.. from slavery to the KKK.... it's what they do.


you forgot ...to welfare and planned parenthood.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Funny how supply and demand works.


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## Brain357 (Mar 31, 2017)

Sen. Tom Cotton misses the mark on immigration and wages


----------



## Brain357 (Mar 31, 2017)

Were a President Trump to deport all illegal immigrants, the economy would suffer greatly. Just ask Arizona, where a crackdown on illegal immigrants in 2007 shrank the economy by 2%, according to a private analysis by Moody’s, a ratings agency, for the _Wall Street Journal_. The incomes of most workers would fall. Yet strangely enough, those best placed to benefit from a mass deportation would be those who had crossed the border legally.

http://www.economist.com/news/unite...nomic-losers-low-skilled-immigration-wage-war


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## rightwinger (Mar 31, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Dems offer many programs to help not just minorities, but the poor in general to get off of welfare
> ...



Unemployment among blacks dropped 6% under President Obama

NEXT


----------



## NYcarbineer (Mar 31, 2017)

One of the easy tells of how innately racist conservatives are is that they almost never mention poverty without mentioning black Americans.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



You didn't answer the question.


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 31, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



You just don't like the answer


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Show us all how many fewer blacks are on welfare at the end of Obama's 8 years, compared to the beginning.

Or run away.....


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Mar 31, 2017)

*Why do democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare?*

Easy; because they see it as the modern form of slavery that they wish that they could still have.


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 31, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Ummm....if its YOUR claim
Why should I bother to show it?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


*
Ummm....if its YOUR claim*

You claimed.....
*
Dems offer many programs to help not just minorities, but the poor in general to get off of welfare*

Why don't you show how successful those programs were under Obama?


----------



## Redfish (Mar 31, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




NO, it didn't.   NEXT.


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 31, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



You are correct....Unemployment rate for blacks actually dropped 8% under Obama
<It went UP 8% under Bush>


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 31, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



If you claim it went up....burden on you to prove it


----------



## jc456 (Mar 31, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Sen. Tom Cotton misses the mark on immigration and wages


so that article states to fix immigration.  What needs fixing exactly?  we have laws on the books and it seems most ignore them.  How about just enforcing the laws on the books?  D'OH!


----------



## jc456 (Mar 31, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Were a President Trump to deport all illegal immigrants, the economy would suffer greatly. Just ask Arizona, where a crackdown on illegal immigrants in 2007 shrank the economy by 2%, according to a private analysis by Moody’s, a ratings agency, for the _Wall Street Journal_. The incomes of most workers would fall. Yet strangely enough, those best placed to benefit from a mass deportation would be those who had crossed the border legally.
> 
> http://www.economist.com/news/unite...nomic-losers-low-skilled-immigration-wage-war


well duh, why wouldn't it?  They've taken jobs.  Those jobs would need to be refilled.  how fking stupid are you?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...







12.7% down to 7.8%. That's not an 8% drop.

Unemployment Rate: Black or African American


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 31, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



16 1/2 percent down to 8%

Went from 8% to 16% under Republicans....Why do Republicans hate blacks?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...






Looks like 13 million more on foodstamps in 2016 than in 2008.
I guess the poor in general weren't helped off welfare.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



January 2009.....12.7%, December 2016.....7.8%

Are you confused how Presidential terms work?


----------



## NoNukes (Mar 31, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


Another delusional one.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

NoNukes said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > NoNukes said:
> ...



If you looked at black out of wedlock births, black employment and black household income growth before the Great Society, you'd realize even blind Ed has succeeded in finding the truth this time.


----------



## NoNukes (Mar 31, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


White society is not the same either. People too busy making money to take care of their children, the family structure is dissolving. Divorce rates sky high.


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 31, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



FAIL...Your chart says nothing about blacks


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 31, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?


I see how the dems swept the elections yet again..


----------



## Brain357 (Mar 31, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Were a President Trump to deport all illegal immigrants, the economy would suffer greatly. Just ask Arizona, where a crackdown on illegal immigrants in 2007 shrank the economy by 2%, according to a private analysis by Moody’s, a ratings agency, for the _Wall Street Journal_. The incomes of most workers would fall. Yet strangely enough, those best placed to benefit from a mass deportation would be those who had crossed the border legally.
> ...



So you want incomes to fall and the economy to slow more?


----------



## Brain357 (Mar 31, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



So defunding planned parenthood will help?


----------



## NYcarbineer (Mar 31, 2017)

No society has gotten rid of their poor by denying them any government help.


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 31, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > NoNukes said:
> ...



Planned Parenthood helps poor people control family size


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


*
FAIL...Your chart says nothing about blacks*

*Dems offer many programs to help not just minorities, but the poor in general to get off of welfare*

If you have a chart that shows Obama helped blacks get off welfare, or anyone.....post it.


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 31, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Nice attempt at moving those goalposts....But FAIL
Read the OP Snowflake


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 31, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



*Dems offer many programs to help not just minorities, but the poor in general to get off of welfare

Why do democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare?
*
^
Your claim from post #170.
How'd those programs get minorities and the poor in general off welfare during Obama's terms in office?

Or are you going to run away again? LOL!


----------



## Redfish (Apr 1, 2017)

Moonglow said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?
> ...




The American people are not as dumb as the dems think they are.  Except in California and New York.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 1, 2017)

When have Republicans ever helped the poor or working class?

Have they ever passed legislation that doesn't help the wealthy the most?


----------



## BlueGin (Apr 1, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?


Yes.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 1, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




look at your chart, dipshit.  Obama was elected in 08, the UE rate went up and stayed up his entire 8 years, then went back to where it started in 08.   That's not success, idiot.  That's massive failure.   Its likely that it started down in 14 because everyone knew that the Kenyan was leaving in two years. 

Damn fool,  you post a chart that defeats your argument and then you crow about it.   That defective liberal gene has finally taken you over the cliff into total idiocy.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 1, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> When have Republicans ever helped the poor or working class?
> 
> Have they ever passed legislation that doesn't help the wealthy the most?




which is better for an able bodied poor person,  a job or a welfare check?


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 1, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Why do conservatives struggle so much interpreting charts?
Obama took office in 2009. 2008 was BUSH
UE went UP 3 percent and continued into 2009 
Starting in 2010, President Obama reversed the trend and UE went DOWN 5 percent


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 1, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > When have Republicans ever helped the poor or working class?
> ...


Show any Republican initiatives to bring jobs to poor neighborhoods


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 1, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> When have Republicans ever helped the poor or working class?
> 
> Have they ever passed legislation that doesn't help the wealthy the most?




Senate Passes Tax Increases on Wealthy Americans

First step on tax increases by Republicans


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 1, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Bring jobs to poor neighborhoods?  Jobs are not supposed to go to the workers, the workers are supposed to go to where the jobs are.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 1, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > When have Republicans ever helped the poor or working class?
> ...


. 
It was Obama who ran on allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire and preserve them for the middle class

It was Republicans who threatened to default on our debt unless wealthy tax cuts were preserved


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 1, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



You see Republicans....you don't get to play both sides of the coin

You can't claim Republicans bring jobs to the poor and then tell poor neighborhoods to go fuck themselves


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 1, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



The only people that "bring  jobs" are  job creators,  and politicians  do  not  tell job  creators  where to  create  the  jobs at.  

All politicians can do is make it more or less inviting for job creators to create jobs.  If your city, town or state  has such high taxes that it makes it difficult to operate business, or you are in one of those liberal areas pushing for ridiculous minimum wage hikes, businesses don't  want to open up business  there.  Don't blame Republicans for that, blame liberal Democrats.  

In fact I just ran across a story this morning out of  New York.  The former actor Tony Danza has a  cheese  shop in the city, and he's  protesting how the city is closing  down small businesses because they can't afford  to stay open any longer thanks to  taxes and regulations.  I found the story in Google news if you care  to look it up.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 1, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



And yet the Republican Congress passed tax increases on the wealthy,, they  passed corporate tax  increases, they passed personal income tax increases on those  making over 450K a year.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 1, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


fiscal forms of responsibility always escape the right wing; they prefer to simply, "blame the poor", regardless.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 1, 2017)

Rustic said:


> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> > The Original Tree said:
> ...


pics, or it didn't happen.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 1, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Yup. Thousands of more regulations are free. DERP!


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 1, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Mostly true
And when job creators abandon a sector of the country it is up to the citizens of this country to help them out
Something Republicans refuse to do in helping the poor

Their solution of...get a job 
Does not work when there are no jobs


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 1, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > What have Republicans ever done for minority neighborhoods other than to build more prisons?
> ...


the right wing prefers to make everything illegal, on a for-profit basis.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 1, 2017)

Does anyone have to wonder why the OP left poor WHITE Americans out of his topic?

lol


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 1, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



We have plenty of jobs, just not enough Americans willing to take those jobs.  My industry alone  needs  tens of thousands of drivers we can't find.  I work  in industrial areas all  day long.  Each one is loaded with  HELP WANTED signs.  Those signs are posted week after week--month after month.  

The  new trend in business is to hire  minorities.  Why?  Because minorities will work for less money than white people.  Several of our customers went from  having a mostly white staff to a nearly all black staff in a matter of a few years.


----------



## jasonnfree (Apr 1, 2017)

Redfish said:


> follow up question:   why do democrats support the organized murder of unborn black children through planned parenthood?
> 
> Limit their numbers and keep them on the plantation.   Sounds like something from the KKK democrats of the 1800s.



Why would democrats want the murder of unborn blacks -  they could be future democrat voters, at least according to right wing logic.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 1, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > When have Republicans ever helped the poor or working class?
> ...




A good paying union job.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 1, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Die unions....die.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 1, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Wrong types of jobs. Not everyone has the superior intellect to be truck drivers or rocket scientists
Used to be manufacturing jobs those people could take that paid enough for them to live on


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 1, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



But those  days are gone  just like making horseshoes.  It's never coming back because robots took over all  the monkey jobs.  

Now's the time to make  up your mind to attempt being successful at a trade or live your life as a failure through nobody's fault but your own.  If I sat back and waited  for the  perfect job  with the perfect hours  and perfect working conditions, I would have  never  worked one day in  my life. 

I'm a sick  man and have been  for some time now.  But until I can't get  out of bed,  I'm going to get up for work in the morning and support  all those  younger much healthier people than myself.  And as I'm working, I'll read and listen  to all the excuses why I'm supporting them such as they don't have any training, they don't have specific talents  for jobs, they had a bad upbringing or went to substandard  schools.  In the meantime, some  foreigner will come here with two dollars in his pocket  and  barely knowing  thirty words in English  and watch  him  make something of himself.  

It's truly pathetic.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 1, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Some people are just fucking dumb or just fucking lazy. We are looking at about 20% of the population. No matter what we do, these people will struggle in complex positions. 
Our society used to have jobs these people could fill be it a low skilled assembly line worker or janitor. These jobs used to pay enough for people to support themselves .......they no longer do
Now the taxpayer has to step in and make up the difference


----------



## boedicca (Apr 1, 2017)

Why do Democrats support importing Sharia Law which oppresses women and punishes gays into the U.S.?


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 1, 2017)

boedicca said:


> Why do Democrats support importing Sharia Law which oppresses women and punishes gays into the U.S.?



Sharia Law is a boogie man that keeps conservatives up at night


----------



## boedicca (Apr 1, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Why do Democrats support importing Sharia Law which oppresses women and punishes gays into the U.S.?
> ...




I can see why you support it.   You dig the idea of rape victims being stoned to death.

_On October 30, 2008, the United Nations condemned the stoning to death of Aisha Duhulowa, a 13-year-old girl who had been gang-raped and then sentenced to death by a Sharia court for fornication (Zina). She was screaming and begging for mercy, but when some family members attempted to intervene, shots were fired by the Islamic militia and a baby was killed. This happens in Sharia courts of other countries also. The village Sharia courts in Bangladesh, although illegal, regularly punish raped minor girls and women by flogging and beating them with shoes.http://ahl-alquran.com/English/"htt...html?InstanceName=rte1&Toolbar=Default#_edn1" In Pakistan similar cases of punishing raped women are Mina v. the State, Bibi v. the State and Bahadur v. the State.http://ahl-alquran.com/English/"http://www.ahen In Pakistan similar cases of punishing raped women are Mina v. the State, Bibi v. the State and Bahadur v. the State.[ii] Sharia courts in Pakistan have punished many thousands of raped women by long term imprisonment.[iii] It became so chronic that raped women stopped reporting to police. ...

HOW SHARIA LAW PUNISHES RAPED WOMEN_


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 1, 2017)

boedicca said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...


Has nothing to do with me as an American

We have something we like to call the Constitution that has precedence


----------



## boedicca (Apr 1, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




Here you go, bub.  Some Sharia burn victim photos for you to jerk off to.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 1, 2017)

boedicca said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...


Which state did that happen in?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 1, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



And with them the middle class and any hopes of strong economic growth.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 1, 2017)

boedicca said:


> Why do Democrats support importing Sharia Law which oppresses women and punishes gays into the U.S.?



They don't, you retard.


----------



## Doc1 (Apr 1, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Why do Democrats support importing Sharia Law which oppresses women and punishes gays into the U.S.?
> ...



Do you wear a Burqua Carb?


----------



## jasonnfree (Apr 1, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


----------



## boedicca (Apr 1, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Why do Democrats support importing Sharia Law which oppresses women and punishes gays into the U.S.?
> ...



They do, you sad little moron.


----------



## boedicca (Apr 1, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




You mean The Constitution that you loons think of as a Living thing that you can change and manipulate for political purposes outside of the legislative process?

Aha!  You lose.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 1, 2017)

boedicca said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



Post as much credible evidence as you have that most Democrats want to replace our system with Sharia Law.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 1, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Just a bunch of corrupt thugs.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 1, 2017)

Doc1 said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...




Post as much credible evidence you have that most Democrats support replacing our system with Sharia Law,

or, go back under your cowpie.


----------



## Nosmo King (Apr 1, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?


Rather than try pissing into the wind, I reject the premise of your question.

It is created of right wing talking points unchallenged by receptive minds.  Minds not use don't to plumbing the depths of the situation as it actually is.  Minds usually unaware of all the factors contributing to the situation.  Minds unwilling to use critical thinking, historical facts and the myriad of obstacles promulgated by previous generations of leaders.


----------



## Doc1 (Apr 1, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Doc1 said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



Not what I said, or what I asked is it?
Fact kid, you'd defend Sharia over being Republican.


----------



## Doc1 (Apr 1, 2017)

Doc1 said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Doc1 said:
> ...


I'd be happy to FEED you cowpie kid.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 1, 2017)

In truth, the people most likely to support Sharia Law are conservatives, because of their obsessive adoration and promotion of states' rights over the federal government, aka the Constitution.

Using conservative principles in the form of their perverse interpretations of the 10 Amendment, a state or local government could institute Sharia Law, in defiance of federal law,

and claim their 10th Amendment rights as trumping any nonsense to the contrary from the big central government in Washington DC.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 1, 2017)

boedicca said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...


We wrote it.....
We know what it means
U.S. Constitutional protections supercede  any Sharia nightmare fantasies you may have


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 1, 2017)

Doc1 said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Doc1 said:
> ...



No, you would defend a state imposing Sharia Law as having the authority to do so under the 10th Amendment.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 1, 2017)

boedicca said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > In truth, the people most likely to support Sharia Law are conservatives, because of their obsessive adoration and promotion of states' rights over the federal government, aka the Constitution.
> ...



lol, I win.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 1, 2017)

boedicca said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > In truth, the people most likely to support Sharia Law are conservatives, because of their obsessive adoration and promotion of states' rights over the federal government, aka the Constitution.
> ...



So you concede that the 10th Amendment is subordinate to the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution...?

Maybe you're not ineducable.


----------



## Markle (Apr 1, 2017)

Eaglewings said:


> So Redfish you want the black babies to be born, but don't want to feed, or cloth them until they are able to themselves.



How is feeding, clothing and housing their babies my responsibility?  What about personal responsibility?


----------



## Markle (Apr 1, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Make American great again? We need strong unions.









Yeah, we know how much the Unions helped the auto industry in Detroit, the steel industry, railroads, air traffic controllers and the list goes on!


----------



## jasonnfree (Apr 1, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



True.  When I was about 60 and not working any more,  I helped out an electrician friend pulling wire  when he was short handed one day.  He  then asked me to work part time now and then.   Extra money, learn  something different, why not, I said.  It would come in handy when I built my own house on some acreage I own, I was also thinking.   I did this on and off for about 5 or 6 years, got halfway good at residential and commercial electric too.  I have never seen a white or black man, old or young, at a home depot trying to get a job with a contractor like the Mexicans do. No, they hang out in parking lots mooching.  How many people ever see kids knocking on doors wanting to mow lawns or whatever for money?  We did in the '50s.  Sometimes got in fights if you got too far out of your own neighborhood too.


----------



## boedicca (Apr 1, 2017)

Markle said:


> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> > So Redfish you want the black babies to be born, but don't want to feed, or cloth them until they are able to themselves.
> ...




How White Privilegy of you.


----------



## Markle (Apr 1, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> And as unions have declined, so has the middle class. Go figure. When you going to come back to reality?



You're a member of what union?  

We know what unions have done.  How is this a good thing?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 1, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Sure, and I agree  with that if a person is properly evaluated by professionals who would testify a subject is too stupid to work.  But what you make are assumptions  and not anything concrete. 

As for laziness, that's something I won't  support.  Laziness is not a physical or mental illness.  Nobody I know wants to get  up and go to work  every day, but we do it because we have to.  If you just decide you don't like  working (and who does?) starve in the streets for all I care.  I curse ever day I get up and  go to work.


----------



## Doc1 (Apr 1, 2017)

Dems don't hate Black's, they just don't think that they are able to care for themselves.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 1, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



That created the middle class and made us the strongest country in the world.


----------



## Markle (Apr 1, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Since there are far more whites than blacks on welfare in America, why are you going the racist angle?



As you know, the difference is in the PERCENTAGE of blacks on welfare compared to whites and other races.  They’re in serious trouble and their sorry leaders continue to pound into them that they are VICTIMS AND SOMEONE OWES THEM A LIVING!  How is that good for them or anyone else?


----------



## BlueGin (Apr 1, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Why do Democrats support importing Sharia Law which oppresses women and punishes gays into the U.S.?
> ...


Retard? Thought that was a banned word in lib land?


----------



## Doc1 (Apr 1, 2017)

BlueGin said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



Unless they are using it on a Conservative.


----------



## bodecea (Apr 1, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?


Precious.....


----------



## Polishprince (Apr 1, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?



I don' t think they hate blacks at all, they just realize that its necessary for their own lifestyles.      Men like Chuck U. Schumer make a real good living at being a senator.

If he didn't have all of those surefire black welfare votes, he would no longer be able to earn a living.  What skills does an unemployed senator bring to the table?   I guess he could turn to male prostitution.  But that's about it.


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## Doc1 (Apr 1, 2017)

bodecea said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?
> ...



But true.


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## BlueGin (Apr 1, 2017)

Doc1 said:


> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...


If Libs didn't have double standards...they would have no standards at all.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 1, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



How are they working out for the middle class of Detroit?
How about those middle class Hostess employees?
How are the teachers unions working out for the children of Chicago?

Corrupt thugs must be eliminated.


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## Doc1 (Apr 1, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Forget it, he is a true believer.


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## Doc1 (Apr 1, 2017)

Union's are nothing more than the new plantation. Now they employ white's and black's.


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## Markle (Apr 1, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> 95% of black Americans aren't poor you imbecile.



Who's the imbecile?  I bet you think you're the smartest one in the room.

Poverty Rate
White 9%    Black 24%    Hispanic 23%    Other 14%    Total  14%

Poverty Rate by Race/Ethnicity


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 1, 2017)

jasonnfree said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



It was almost like a different  world back then.  People  used to have so much pride and dignity.  Today, I don't think  many younger  people  understand the definition of the words.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 1, 2017)

Doc1 said:


> Dems don't hate Black's, they just don't think that they are able to care for themselves.



No, they understand that  blacks  can take care of themselves, but if they do, then who needs Democrats?  So convince them that they are victims.


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## rightwinger (Apr 1, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


How has the American worker done since the demise of the unions?

Less pay, no job security, fewer benefits

An insecure worker is just what Republicans want to ensure a low wage workforce


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## Brain357 (Apr 1, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Make American great again? We need strong unions.
> ...



They helped the whole country by creating the middle class.  As they have declined so has the middle class.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 1, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Well........then  why don't you open up your own  business  and  have  union  employees  do  the  work?  Pay them  as much as you want with benefits galore.  Then after you create a  price  for your product or  service, see how  much you can sell that  union work for to the public.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 1, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




Better to have jobs of any pay than no jobs at all.


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## Brain357 (Apr 1, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



And with them go the middle class and any hope of strong ecomomic growth.


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## Brain357 (Apr 1, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Yes and slow our economy.  Repubs said things would be great without unions. They were obviously wrong.


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 1, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...




Hit the nail on the head, again, Ray!

That's why minimum wage laws contribute to poverty.....

"FDR talked Congress into creating Social Security in 1935 and imposing the nation’s first comprehensive minimum-wage law in 1938.... many economists have a different perspective.
 The minimum-wage law prices many of the inexperienced, the young, the unskilled, and the disadvantaged out of the labor market. For example, the minimum-wage provisions passed as part of another act in 1933 threw an estimated 500,000 blacks out of work."
http://fee.org/freeman/great-myths-of-the-great-depression/


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## rightwinger (Apr 1, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


That is what employers count on

Take it or leave it


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 1, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...





One day.....based on the law of averages....you will actually think about what you write.




While legislative bodies have the power to order wage increases, they have not as of yet found a way to order commensurate increases in worker productivity that make the worker’s output worth the higher wage.
Further, while Congress can legislate the wage at which labor transactions occur, it cannot require that the transaction actually be made, and the worker hired.                                                                   walter e. williams


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## Markle (Apr 1, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Sharia Law is a boogie man that keeps conservatives up at night



So it is taking over parts of Europe but it can't come here?  

*Iranian American: ‘Sharia Law Is Here in the U.S.'*
By Penny Starr | February 25, 2015 | 1:35 PM EST

Investigative reporter and Fox News contributor Lisa Daftari spoke at the Heritage Foundation on Feb. 20, 2015. (CNSNews.com/Penny Starr)

(CNSNews.com) – Iranian American Lisa Daftari, an investigative journalist and contributor to Fox News, said on Friday that Sharia law is being followed by practitioners of radical Islam right here in the United States, even if many Americans think of the human rights abuses towards women by these practitioners as something that only takes place in the Middle East and Africa.

“And some might ask why should Americans care about what goes on in those countries?” asked Daftar, whose family fled Iran during the 1979 revolution that overthrew Mohammad Reza Pahlavi and established an Islamic state in the country. “How about tolerance for other practices; respect for Sharia law – the cultural and religious differences?

“Well the answer is it’s not just contained to that part of the world,” Daftari said. “It’s here.

“It’s in Europe. It’s in our cities. It’s in our places of work. It’s in our schools,” Daftari said. “Yes, Sharia law is here in the U.S., and this too is a war on women.”

Daftari, who spoke at the Conservative Women’s Network at the Heritage Foundation, focused her remarks on what she said is “the real war on women,” including “honor killings” that have taken place in the United States.

“Every year, about 26 women are killed in the U.S. by a relative in the name of family honor,” Daftari said.

She cited two such killings. On Jan. 1, 2008, a man shot his two teenage daughters, Amina and Sarah Said.

“It later came to light that these murders were premeditated as honor killings as retribution for [Amina] rejecting an arranged marriage to a man in Egypt,” Daftari said.

In an essay written in September 2014, Amina’s boyfriend, Joseph Moreno, said the couple hoped to marry and that the father has never been arrested and his whereabouts are unknown.

[...]

Read more:
Iranian American: ‘Sharia Law Is Here in the U.S.'


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## Markle (Apr 1, 2017)

boedicca said:


> How White Privilegy of you.



Couldn't answer the question, could you?


----------



## Markle (Apr 1, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> How are the teachers unions working out for the children of Chicago?



National Education Association General Counsel Bob Chanin stated in July 2009.

Chanin: *"It is not because we care about children. And it is not because we have a vision of a great public school for every child.* NEA and its affiliates are effective advocates because we have power. And we have power because there are more than 3.2 million people who are willing to pay us hundreds of millions of dollars in dues...."


Says it all does it not?


----------



## Markle (Apr 1, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> They helped the whole country by creating the middle class. As they have declined so has the middle class.



IF that is true, why is it that the very industries where they were the strongest, they, the unions, DESTROYED?

Detroit


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 1, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Republican legislators destabilized the unions, held down minimum wage, eroded worker protections

Just what their wealthy masters demanded


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 1, 2017)

Markle said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Since there are far more whites than blacks on welfare in America, why are you going the racist angle?
> ...



Percentage means nothing in this case.  I'm not surprised you don't know that.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 1, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Liberals  are very resistant to the  theory  of Action/ Reaction.  

Most all  actions cause a reaction of some kind.  

If we decided to meet in person and I put my arm out to shake your hand, it's likely you will return the gesture.  That's positive action/ positive reaction.  On the other hand, if we met  and I pushed you against the wall, it's  likely you'll  push me right back, negative action/ negative reaction.  

Liberals hate this  philosophy because they wish to believe  that negative actions will not be  met with negative reactions.  They actually believe  that negative actions will cause a positive reaction. 

As we have seen in the past,   we know  their theory is flawed and  the action/ reaction theory is  much  more accurate.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 1, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Conservatives earn their chops on "blame the victim"

Liberals look at societies role as helping those who need help


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 1, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



What Republican ever said that?  What Republicans have  said  is  unions will have a negative impact on  our economy which  they have.  Unions have chased a lot of jobs out of the state, country or to automation.   The company I  work  for has seen  a lot of customers leave our area because of unions.  

It's not Republicans, it's not evil rich corporations, it's the  American  consumer who will not support overpriced services or goods.  We've tried in the past.  We had American  made  products right next to foreign made  products in the store, and in  almost every instance, the American consumer  chose  the cheap foreign made  product.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 1, 2017)

So what the OP is trying to say is, if you're black, and among the working poor,

if you know what's good for you you would vote for Republicans who want to take your Medicaid away,

because once it's gone you'll magically stop being poor anymore!


----------



## Moonglow (Apr 1, 2017)




----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 1, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Corrupt thugs must be eliminated.


----------



## JBond (Apr 1, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> What have Republicans ever done for minority neighborhoods other than to build more prisons?


We pay for their housing, food, medical care, education, electricity, transportation, cell phones, and a few I am sure I forgot.


----------



## sealybobo (Apr 1, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?


Oh for god sakes will you Republicans just cut welfare so we can see if the results are what we expect?

You forget you don't need a single democrat vote to pass welfare reform. So what are you waiting for?

My guess is you're all talk.

You won the election. The time for talking shit is over


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 1, 2017)

JBond said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > What have Republicans ever done for minority neighborhoods other than to build more prisons?
> ...


None of which you support

What have Republicans ever done to help poor neighborhoods?


----------



## sealybobo (Apr 1, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> JBond said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Never mind that. That's the past. What you want to know is what are Republicans going to do to help poor neighborhoods


----------



## sealybobo (Apr 1, 2017)

JBond said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > What have Republicans ever done for minority neighborhoods other than to build more prisons?
> ...


Doesn't sound like you want to


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## rightwinger (Apr 1, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > JBond said:
> ...


Let em die


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 1, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?




They want the votes.  The democrats  appreciate that they don't have to force blacks to work on the plantations anymore...they simply have to drive them to the polls every two years...then they forget about them......


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 1, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?
> ...




Look no farther when the republicans got rid of the 99 weekeers on Unemployment.. The Unemployment rate dropped like a rock


.


----------



## Markle (Apr 1, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Post as much credible evidence you have that most Democrats support replacing our system with Sharia Law,



Where did anyone say "MOST" or to replace our system with Sharia Law?  Do you deny that there are Democrats who support Sharia law?


----------



## Markle (Apr 1, 2017)

Polishprince said:


> I don' t think they hate blacks at all, they just realize that its necessary for their own lifestyles. Men like Chuck U. Schumer make a real good living at being a senator.



I agree with you in spirit but disagree as to what is the primary reason for their clinging to their positions.  POWER is the ultimate aphrodisiac is a quote from Henry Kissinger.  Out of office, they could earn five to ten times the salary they earn in Washington but they wouldn't have the POWER.


----------



## Markle (Apr 1, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> What have Republicans ever done to help poor neighborhoods?


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 2, 2017)

BlueGin said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



I'm politically correct.  Sorry.  Go cry somewhere else.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 2, 2017)

Markle said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Post as much credible evidence you have that most Democrats support replacing our system with Sharia Law,
> ...


Name some


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## rightwinger (Apr 2, 2017)

Markle said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > What have Republicans ever done to help poor neighborhoods?


Imagine that
If they are so poor, it would seem easy for Republicans to offer something better

Why don't they?


----------



## Redfish (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




bullshit.  obozo kept all of the Bush tax cuts in place for everyone who pays taxes.  They became the Obama tax cuts.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




are you totally crazy.   UE went up after obozo took office, when he left it was back where it was when he started.


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## rightwinger (Apr 2, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Once again, your knowledge of the facts is limited

Bush tax cuts were extended for one year and then taxes for those making over $400,000 returned to their former rates


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## rightwinger (Apr 2, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



We were losing 750,000 jobs a month when Obama took office. Of course they went up.......that was the economy he was given

Obama gave Trump an economy that was adding 200,000 jobs a month


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## Redfish (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




when the dems control the city it's impossible for republicans to make any changes.  Here in New Orleans our stupid mayor and council are more interested in removing historical statues than in doing anything about crime or poverty.   But they do have measures in place to raise taxes----------on the poor who have no way to pay them.


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## Redfish (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




Right, I get it.   Obama is responsible for nothing negative.  It was either Bush or Trump.   I understand your insane logic.  

Obama's jobs----------------part time, minimum wage, no benefits.   Wow, what a record.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




correct, but earlier you said that republicans forced obozo to retain the reduced rates on the top incomes.


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## Redfish (Apr 2, 2017)

bear513 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...




amazing how people find jobs when the gravy train stops.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 2, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...



I'll be happy to trade you. 

We  have less than 2/3 of the police enforcement we used to have in Cleveland.  Now city Council approved 1.3  million dollars for a dirt bike trail.  Why a dirt bike trail?  Because the Mayor (Frank Jackson) grandson got busted a few times for riding  his  dirt bike on the street.  Of course the Mayor would look bad telling the cops to look the other  way  when his grandson speeds down the street on an illegal bike, so the solution is to spend taxpayer money for a bike trail. 

I'll bet anybody here this liberal bozo gets reelected because Democrats are stupid.  Same goes with the council people that pushed through this idiotic plan.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...





Really, you dunce???

Obama's US Civil Rights Commission, 2010 Report:
"The United States Commission on Civil Rights (Commission) is pleased to transmit this report, The Impact of Illegal Immigration on the Wages and Employment Opportunities of Black Workers. A panel of experts briefed members of the Commission on April 4, 2008 regarding the evidence for economic loss and job opportunity costs to black workers attributable to illegal immigration. The panelists also described non-economic factors contributing to the depression of black wages and employment rates.

Illegal immigration to the United States in recent decades has tended to depress both wages and employment rates for low-skilled American citizens, a disproportionate number of whom are black men."
http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/IllegImmig_10-14-10_430pm.pdf

Wanna give Barack an 'attaboy'?


----------



## PoliticalChic (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...




"Conservatives earn their chops on "blame the victim"

But only when the so-called victim deserves the blame.

Liberals pretend that their policies aren't almost always the cause of poverty and helplessness.

From Peter Ferrara, “America’s Ticking Bankruptcy Bomb,” chapter five.


The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Such should be the epitaph of Liberalism.
‘Welfare’ as a wholly owned subsidiary of the government, and its main result is the incentivizing of a disrespect for oneself, and for the entity that provides the welfare. As more folks in a poor neighborhood languish with little or no work, entire local culture begins to change: daily work is no longer the expected social norm. Extended periods of hanging around the neighborhood, neither working nor going to school becoming more and more socially acceptable.
Since productive activity not making any economic sense because of the work disincentives of the welfare plantation, other kinds of activities proliferate: drug and alcohol abuse, crime, recreational sex, illegitimacy, and family breakup are the new social norms, as does the culture of violence.




"The lessons of history … show conclusively that continued dependence upon relief induces a spiritual and moral disintegration fundamentally destructive to the national fiber. To dole out relief in this way is to administer a narcotic, a subtle destroyer of the human spirit."

These searing words about Depression-era welfare are from Franklin Roosevelt's 1935 State of the Union Address.



*On Dec. 7, 2012, liberal New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof offered an unexpected concession: 
“This is painful for a liberal to admit, but … America’s safety net can sometimes entangle people in a soul-crushing dependency. Our poverty programs do rescue many people, but other times they backfire.”*


Liberals: get the heck out of the way, and let everybody succeed!!!!


----------



## Redfish (Apr 2, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...




winger has his head so far up obozo's ass that he can't see what is really going on.   He is a perfect example of the defective liberal gene and its danger to humanity.


----------



## Timmy (Apr 2, 2017)

Markle said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > What have Republicans ever done to help poor neighborhoods?



The top 10 richest are also run by democrats .

This is typical right wing dishonesty.  Pretty much all cities lean democratic, so you blame every city problem on the Dems.   Even if the city is in the reddest of red states , it's the Dems fault !


----------



## Redfish (Apr 2, 2017)

Timmy said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




Yes, it is.   When they are in control, its their fault.   That's the way responsibility works.   Name one dem run city that is financially sound, has a low crime rate, and a low unemployment rate.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 2, 2017)

Markle said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > What have Republicans ever done to help poor neighborhoods?



100 poorest counties:






Looks pretty red statey to me

lol


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 2, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


Republicans control the State Houses....that is where the money is
Why haven't they invested in impoverished communities?


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## rightwinger (Apr 2, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Timmy said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


New York City


----------



## Rustic (Apr 2, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


alot of those counties vote progressive


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## Rustic (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Throwing money at something never solves anything


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 2, 2017)

Rustic said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...



A lot of what you post is comical.


----------



## Rustic (Apr 2, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...


The federal government does not make life better for the individual… Fact


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 2, 2017)

Markle said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > What have Republicans ever done to help poor neighborhoods?



Eight of the ten cities listed are in states run by REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS.


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## NYcarbineer (Apr 2, 2017)

Rustic said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...



So Medicaid does not make life better for low income Americans?

why not?


----------



## Dragonlady (Apr 2, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...



City governments have no effect whatsoever on poverty within their boundaries.  City policies don't create jobs.  Cities governments get the most blame for conditions not of their making, and have fewer resources to deal with the problems.  When the steel industry left Pittsburg, whose fault was that?  When the auto industry left Detroit, was the local government at fault?

It's a chicken and egg question.  Which came first - the poverty, or the democratic government.  In every case, it's the poverty.  Cities don't become poor because the vote Democrat - they vote Democrat because Republicans do NOTHING for poor people.  

That is not to say that poor people want free stuff, what they want is opportunities, just like everyone else, and Republicans don't offer opportunity at all.  In fact, Republican policies make it harder and harder for people to work themselves out of poverty.

Conservatives hate "affirmative action" programs which see less qualified students of color gain admittance to Ivy League universities ahead of more qualified white students.  They say this is wrong and everyone should be admitted on their merits.  Really?  They why do they support "legacy" admittance?

Undeserving and less qualifed sons and daughters of graduates of these fine institutions go to the front of the admittance line.  Do you think that George W. Bush would have gotten into Harvard or Yale with his C average if his Daddy hadn't been Speaker of the House?  If you do, then I have a ski resort in Miami I'd like to sell you.

Liberal cities are America's success story - from the revival of New York, to Los Angeles and Seattle, these are the engines which drive the US economy, with innovation, drive, and left wing policies.  Not all are as successful, but compared to the Red States, the Blue Cities are in much, much better shape both economically and socially.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 2, 2017)

Rustic said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...



Then let's get rid of the military.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 2, 2017)

Rustic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Many times it does
Taking money away NEVER helps


----------



## Rustic (Apr 2, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...


All socialist entitlement programs always make for a weak people... fact


----------



## Rustic (Apr 2, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...


The military, police and fire are a necessary part of the country, and are not socialist entitlement programs... 
The federal government and country or not one in the same


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 2, 2017)

Rustic said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...


Really?
Safe food and water, small business loans, emergency relief, transportation funding, scientific research, anti poverty programs


----------



## Rustic (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Someone has to pay for it, socialist entitlement programs are unnecessary...


----------



## Rustic (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...


They are very Unefficient at it... The private sector would do much better


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 2, 2017)

Just to set the record straight, consider this:

*Contrary to "Entitlement Society" Rhetoric, Over Nine-Tenths of Entitlement Benefits Go to Elderly, Disabled, or Working Households

"Some conservative critics of federal social programs, including leading presidential candidates, are sounding an alarm that the United States is rapidly becoming an “entitlement society” in which social programs are undermining the work ethic and creating a large class of Americans who prefer to depend on government benefits rather than work.  A new CBPP analysis of budget and Census data, however, shows that more than 90 percent of the benefit dollars that entitlement and other mandatory programs[1] spend go to assist people who are elderly, seriously disabled, or members of working households — not to able-bodied, working-age Americans who choose not to work.  (See Figure 1.)  This figure has changed little in the past few years."






*
Contrary to "Entitlement Society" Rhetoric, Over Nine-Tenths of Entitlement Benefits Go to Elderly, Disabled, or Working Households

Conservatives, of course, have to manufacture and sustain the myth that most of the above entitlement dollars are going to able bodied freeloaders,

a classic propaganda tactic.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 2, 2017)

Rustic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...



The private sector is the reason we have so many poor and low income Americans.


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## Rustic (Apr 2, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Just to set the record straight, consider this:
> 
> *Contrary to "Entitlement Society" Rhetoric, Over Nine-Tenths of Entitlement Benefits Go to Elderly, Disabled, or Working Households
> 
> ...


And those fitting the bill cannot afford it… Fact


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## Rustic (Apr 2, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Na, The federal government fucks everything up it touches


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## Marion Morrison (Apr 2, 2017)

Rustic said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...



Want something to not get done? Make a Federal Bureau to do it.


----------



## Nia88 (Apr 2, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> > No one breaks the cycle of poverty because of government handouts. That's a concept liberals don't get.
> ...



The black family has never been in tact like the white family structure. Slavery created a system where blacks had no family structure. They broke up families when fathers, mothers and children were sold off at auctions. 

Your white ancestors are at fault for the lack of family structure in the black community. 

Even after slavery abolished this culture of broken up families continued. Many blacks did make families but there was still a large number of unwed mothers in the black communities. 

And church has nothing to do with. Blacks have a higher church attendance record than whites do and they're still struggling. 

Blacks continue to struggle because of the institutionalized racism that had been been place for years. In the last 30 years that system has weakened but it has had lasting effects.


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## Nia88 (Apr 2, 2017)

I find it so interesting when white people think they're experts on black issues.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 2, 2017)

Nia88 said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Rocko said:
> ...


 Of course that's very mistaken liberalism has done to blacks what slavery Jim Crowe and out right racism could never do. Before liberal policies destroyed the black family It was in fact as intact as the white family the obvious reason for the disintegration of the black family to the point where 75% of kids are born illegitimately came directly out of naziliberal welfare culture do you understand now?


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## Dragonlady (Apr 2, 2017)

Rustic said:


> All socialist entitlement programs always make for a weak people... fact



Bullshit.  Every first nation in the world has a longer life expectancy that the United States, due in no small part to government-funded, cradle to the grave, health care.

Every first nation in the world has better public school education than the US, in no small part to the idea that to get quality teachers, you need to pay them and pay them well.  Otherwise these people will take their skills to private industry where they can make a living wage.  They also fund schools for poor children in poor areas with the same amount of money they spend on the children of the rich in higher income neighbourhoods, and provide the same resources, because these nations know that their children are the future.

Americans are more interested in ensuring their children receive a RELIGIOUS, CONSERVATIVE education which reinforces the most regressive, anti-science notions (the Earth is 6000 years old, there is no man-made climate change, and the United States is the greatest nation in the world), none of which are true.

Your country is losing ranking in every measure of live-ability that matters:  health care, education, lower working class and middle class income, opportunity, infrastructure.  Everything that makes a country great, is slowly being drained from your society, and people are encouraged to hate the poor as a drain on your economy.

It is not the poor who are draining your economy - it is the rich.  As more and more wealth is taken by the 1% from the Middle Class, the Middle Class continues to blame social programs instead of the Reagan Tax Cuts which is where the blame squarely belongs.  Until Reagan revamped the tax code in the early 1980's, the tax code supported the idea that a high tide lifted all boats, to the idea that if the rich got richer, it would trickle down to the rest of us.  It didn't happen in the 1980's and it didn't happen in the 2000's when W did it either.

What it did do was lead to a major stock market crash.  Reagan's in 1987, and Bush's in 2008.  Notice how long it takes for these cuts to destabilize the stock market.  The difference between St. Ronnie's crash and W's is this:  Reagan was in power at the beginning of the wealth transfer to the top.  The working poor still had some savings and the middle class were encouraged to use credit and thought they were better off, even as their equity took a hit.  

By the time W's crash hit, the working class has been sucked dry, and were dependent on "earned income credits" to supplement their incomes, and the middle class had maxxed out their credit cards.  Most of the nation's wealth has been transferred to the 1% and no one but those at the top has an appreciable amount of savings left.  The economy cannot withstand another Republican stock market crash along the lines of 2008 or 1987.


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## NYcarbineer (Apr 2, 2017)

Of all the things that RW'ers could obsess on, and oh how we know how they love to obsess,  they choose to obsess on how can we make life more miserable for the poor,

because (according to RW'ers) the poor are making life SO miserable for us...


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## NYcarbineer (Apr 2, 2017)

Rustic said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...



So if all aid to low income Americans were ended tomorrow, every bit of it, including free education, healthcare, the works,

how long before our poverty problem disappears?

Give me a ballpark figure.  lol


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 2, 2017)

Nia88 said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Rocko said:
> ...



Well don't think you speak for all blacks, because this black man disagrees with  you when he wrote:

_*"First, weaken the black family, but don't blame it on individual choices. You have to preach that today's weak black family is a legacy of slavery, Jim Crow and racism. The truth is that black female-headed households were just 18 percent of households in 1950, as opposed to about 68 percent today. In fact, from 1890 to 1940, the black marriage rate was slightly higher than that of whites. Even during slavery, when marriage was forbidden for blacks, most black children lived in biological two-parent families. In New York City, in 1925, 85 percent of black households were two-parent households. A study of 1880 family structure in Philadelphia shows that three-quarters of black families were two-parent households.

During the 1960s, devastating nonsense emerged, exemplified by a Johns Hopkins University sociology professor who argued, "It has yet to be shown that the absence of a father was directly responsible for any of the supposed deficiencies of broken homes." The real issue, he went on to say, "is not the lack of male presence but the lack of male income." That suggests marriage and fatherhood can be replaced by a welfare check."



 *_

Read more @ Walter Williams: Black Self-Sabotage


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 2, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > All socialist entitlement programs always make for a weak people... fact
> ...


 Of course it's very very silly to describe the Republican stock market crash of 2008 when it was a liberal programs that caused the housing collapse. When the collapse occurred government agencies held 75% of Alt A subprime mortgages And 75% of those mortgages were owned or guaranteed by Fannie Freddie. Does that tell you that Republicans were to blame or that moronic liberal policies to get people into homes the free-market said they could not afford were to blame.


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## Rustic (Apr 2, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > All socialist entitlement programs always make for a weak people... fact
> ...


Wrong again, career politicians have ruined this country it basically started around the time at Woodrow Wilson. This country never had a chance because of the big federal government… fact


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## Rustic (Apr 2, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...


The country is past the point of no return, big federal government has destroyed the country…


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 2, 2017)

Rustic said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...


 And how ironic is that given that our founding fathers were concerned mostly with preventing a big federal government. Liberals have been essentially treasonous to our country's values  this is why they spied for Stahelin and gave him the bomb and why they love Bernie Sanders an open communist who honeymooned in the USSR


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## NYcarbineer (Apr 2, 2017)

Rustic said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...



Now that's a goddam funny concession that you're full of shit.


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## Rustic (Apr 2, 2017)

Big federal government never did solve the biggest problem of them all… Big federal government


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## Rustic (Apr 2, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...


Dependence on the federal government is a sad thing…


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## Rustic (Apr 2, 2017)

Rustic said:


> Big federal government never did solve the biggest problem of them all… Big federal government


The ultimate too big to fail… LOL


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 2, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




Wow just wow, how many kids I'm Cleveland have dirt bikes.


But nothing compares to Daily Jr. Closing Meigs field airport in Chicago in the middle of the night because his wife didn't like the noise of airplanes over head.


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## rightwinger (Apr 2, 2017)

Rustic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...



Socialist programs like free education, healthcare for the poor, old age and disability benefits, roads, safe water and food help the people

One of the reasons we have a society


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




No one reason they vote against their wallets and for democrats


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## rightwinger (Apr 2, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...


The founding fathers wanted a federal government that was the right size for their times

Just like today


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 2, 2017)

bear513 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



It seems they are  all the same, doesn't  it?  Once Democrats sit comfortably in office, they think they've been anointed king.


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## rightwinger (Apr 2, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Republicans don't?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...



Nope, not nearly as  much  as Democrats.  The current Mayor of our city hired a criminal out of prison  to work for his administration.  One of the councilmen  is a habitual drunk that's been arrested several times, and now this  Mayor wants to waste money for his grandson's dirt bike path?  Do you even realize what  kind  of liability at puts the city on the hook for?  

Prior to this the county of Cleveland (Cuyahoga) had a major crackdown on scandal, bribery and theft in office.  Most of the guilty were  Democrats--some  now spending  years  in jail.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...




It doesn't appear that way locally but then again the democrats held on to the big cities for ages. 

.


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## rightwinger (Apr 2, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Thus identifying yourself as a blind partisan hack


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## rightwinger (Apr 2, 2017)

bear513 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Rightfully so

People in cities want public services. Good public transportation, good schools, parks, reliable public works

Republicans want low taxes and bare bones services


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




You forgot about hiding criminals from the feds. 




.


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## Dragonlady (Apr 2, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Nia88 said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...



No, these kids came directly out of Ronald Reagan's War on Drugs and minimum sentencing laws, which saw an entire generation of inner city blacks locked in federal prisons, while white kids smoking pot got a slap on the wrist.  The justice system is quite willing to overlook the missteps of young white males, while coming down hard on the similar mistakes of young black males.  This, more than any other reason, is why there are so many black and brown men in the US prison system.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




And your wrong Greenville SC used to be a shit hole under democrat control,  no one would go downtown, but the republicans took over the city and state and the jobs came in and money. 


Now everyone goes downtown.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 2, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Nia88 said:
> ...




They didn't overlook it,  the white kids had the money for lawyers. 



.


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## Nia88 (Apr 2, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Nia88 said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...



I don't speak for all black people. But white people shouldn't act like they are experts in being black when they don't have  a fucking clue what it means to be black in America .


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## Dragonlady (Apr 2, 2017)

bear513 said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...



Yes that too, but surveys of the justice system repeatedly show that blacks or Latinos are far more likely to be jailed for a first offence than a white offender.  That isn't entirely due to lack of money for a lawyer.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 2, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?


The American dream is only for illegal aliens & white liberals. 

I thought you knew?


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 2, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...



An old joke goes on around here,  it goes the white kids are in jail because of failure to pay child support the black kids are in for drug dealing.


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## Mr Natural (Apr 2, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass. Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?



As opposed to the white folk on welfare who vote republican and pray that their heroes will force them off the welfare roles and into those nice high paying jobs that regular people have .


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## Dragonlady (Apr 2, 2017)

I love how Republicans don't want to raise minimum wage, they want to raise "earned income credits".  Earned Income Credits are the vehicle under which the 1% gets the middle class to subsidize their shitty wages, thereby increasing profits and earnings for the 1%, on the backs of the middle class.

The problem is the middle class keep blaming the poor for being poor, while voting for Republicans and Republican policies that keep them that way.  

If I were Queen of the World, no corporation whose employees are receiving public assistance either in the form of food stamps, MedicAid, or Section 8, would be allowed to pay its executives compensation exceeding $9,999,999.  No 8 figure salaries to executives of companies using social safety net programs to aid their employees - any employee from the floor sweeper to the burger flipper.  

The resulting price increases will be more than offset by the tax savings.


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## Dragonlady (Apr 2, 2017)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?
> ...



Not according to you.  It's only for white conservatives with jobs.  Anyone else is in 2nd place.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 2, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...



It's due to many things such as how the suspect interacted with police, the defendants attitude while being booked, the defendants attitude while in court.  It's due to a lot of  things  conveniently overlooked in all those phony race baiting stats.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 2, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


The American dream is earned/achieved not handed out with a welfare check. 

Derp


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 2, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> I love how Republicans don't want to raise minimum wage, they want to raise "earned income credits".  Earned Income Credits are the vehicle under which the 1% gets the middle class to subsidize their shitty wages, thereby increasing profits and earnings for the 1%, on the backs of the middle class.
> 
> The problem is the middle class keep blaming the poor for being poor, while voting for Republicans and Republican policies that keep them that way.
> 
> ...




We just don't want to raise minimum wage nation wide across the board,  it should be done local and up to the states which it is being done. 

For the thousandth time $25 bucks an hour in New York City for example is like making $5 bucks an hour in Alabama. 


.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 2, 2017)

Nia88 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Nia88 said:
> ...



That's why I provided testimony from a a black man.  And  what difference is it being black in America today than being Hispanic, Jewish or Asian?  You can tell me.  I live in a black neighborhood.


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## Timmy (Apr 2, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Timmy said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...



Boston , Seattle, San Fran.  

There's 3 .  DO you want to compare successful vs not ?   You'll find red state cities at the bottom.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Of course, that must be it.  After all, as we  all know,  it's never  a Democrats fault.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 2, 2017)

Timmy said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Timmy said:
> ...




There are no "red state" cities.   There are red cities and there are blue cities.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> The founding fathers wanted a federal government that was the right size for their times
> 
> Just like today



liberals help people the way a pimp helps a prostitute

Our Founders:
-20)History, in general, only informs us of what bad government is.

-21)I own that I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive.

-22)I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.

-23)My reading of history convinces me that bad government results from too much government.


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## rightwinger (Apr 2, 2017)

bear513 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...


Yes...Republicans do that

They are currently trying to hide Trump from the feds


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## rightwinger (Apr 2, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Timmy said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Pass the buck

Red States take the revenue from their cities....they just don't want the responsibilities


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Timmy said:
> ...



States don't take revenue from  cities.  If anything, it's the other way around.  States do give money to their cities that have been cutoff  like here in Ohio, but it was the states money to begin with.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



yep Democrats have controlled the inner cities for 50 years and have destroyed them!
What better advertisement for Republicans is there!!!


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## Markle (Apr 2, 2017)

Timmy said:


> The top 10 richest are also run by democrats



Great, show us the ten cities with the lowest rates of poverty.


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## Markle (Apr 2, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Looks pretty red statey to me



Can't compare apples with apples can you?


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## rightwinger (Apr 2, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Cities are where the money is......they finance the rest of the state


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## Markle (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Republicans control the State Houses....that is where the money is
> Why haven't they invested in impoverished communities?



So typical of far left Progressives.  Their sad solution for EVERYTHING is to THROW MORE MONEY.  They have no solution for anything other than WE NEED MORE MONEY!

Please show us that all the cities with the highest rates of poverty are in Republican run states.


----------



## Markle (Apr 2, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Just to set the record straight, consider this:
> 
> *Contrary to "Entitlement Society" Rhetoric, Over Nine-Tenths of Entitlement Benefits Go to Elderly, Disabled, or Working Households
> 
> ...



As you know, Social Security nor Medicare are entitlements.  They are paid for by the recipient.  Cute try.


----------



## Markle (Apr 2, 2017)

Nia88 said:


> Your white ancestors are at fault for the lack of family structure in the black community.



Your entire post is nothing but useless whining and moaning.  A LIE.  IF any part of it was true, then the Japanese would have a far, far more likely to be in poverty and being a victim.  After all, they had lost all their property and had been interned in prison camps in the Western United States.  THEY could make a legitimate claim to having been enslaved and treated horribly.  Instead, they have higher grades in school, lower poverty rates and lower unemployment.

This particular sentence is especially appalling.

Let me expose you to some FACTS.  Not that you'll listen or learn.

BY WALTER E. WILLIAMS 
RELEASE: WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 26, 2005, AND THEREAFTER

AMMUNITION FOR POVERTY PIMPS

In the wake of Hurricane Katrina's destruction of New Orleans, President Bush gave America's poverty pimps and race hustlers new ammunition. The president said, "As all of us saw on television, there is also some deep, persistent poverty in this region as well. And that poverty has roots in a history of racial discrimination, which cut off generations from the opportunity of America. We have a duty to confront this poverty with bold action."

The president's espousing such a vision not only supplies ammunition to poverty pimps and race hustlers, it focuses attention away from the true connection between race and poverty.

Though I grow weary of pointing it out, let's do it again. Let's examine some numbers readily available from the Census Bureau's 2004 Current Population Survey and ask some questions. There's one segment of the black population that suffers only a 9.9 percent poverty rate, and only 13.7 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. There's another segment that suffers a 39.5 percent poverty rate, and 58.1 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. Among whites, one segment suffers a 6 percent poverty rate, and only 9.9 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. The other segment suffers a 26.4 percent poverty rate, and 52 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. What do you think distinguishes the high and low poverty populations among blacks?

Would you buy an explanation that it's because white people practice discrimination against one segment of the black population and not the other or one segment had a history of slavery and not the other? You'd have to be a lunatic to buy such an explanation. The only distinction between both the black and white populations is marriage -- lower poverty in married-couple families.

*In 1960, only 28 percent of black females ages 15 to 44 were never married and illegitimacy among blacks was 22 percent. Today, the never-married rate is 56 percent and illegitimacy stands at 70 percent. If today's black family structure were what it was in 1960, the overall black poverty rate would be in or near single digits. The weakening of the black family structure, and its devastating consequences, have nothing to do with the history of slavery or racial discrimination.*

Dr. Charles Murray, an American Enterprise Institute scholar, argues in an article titled "Rediscovering the Underclass" in the Institute's On the Issues series (October 2005) that self-destructive behavior has become the hallmark of the underclass. He says that unemployment in the underclass is not caused by the lack of jobs but by the inability to get up every morning and go to work. In 1954, the percentage of black males, age 20 to 24, not looking for work was nine percent. In 1999, it rose to 30 percent, and that was at a time when employers were beating the bushes for employees. Murray adds that "the statistical reality is that people who get into the American job market and stay there seldom remain poor unless they do something self-destructive.

I share Murray's sentiment expressed at the beginning of his article where he says, "Watching the courage of ordinary low-income people as they deal with the aftermath of Katrina and Rita, it is hard to decide which politicians are more contemptible -- Democrats who are rediscovering poverty and blaming it on George W. Bush, or Republicans who are rediscovering poverty and claiming that the government can fix it." Since President Johnson's War on Poverty, controlling for inflation, the nation has spent $9 trillion on about 80 anti-poverty programs. To put that figure in perspective, last year's U.S. GDP was $11 trillion; $9 trillion exceeds the GDP of any nation except the U.S. Hurricanes Katrina and Rita uncovered the result of the War on Poverty -- dependency and self-destructive behavior.

*Guess what the president [President George Walker Bush] and politicians from both parties are asking the American people to do? If you said, "Enact programs that will sustain and enhance dependency," go to the head of the class.*


Ammunition For Poverty Pimps


----------



## Markle (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Socialist programs like free education, healthcare for the poor, old age and disability benefits, roads, safe water and food help the people
> 
> One of the reasons we have a society



You don't have a clue as to the meaning of Socialism, do you?  

See Venezuela.


----------



## Markle (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Rightfully so
> 
> People in cities want public services. Good public transportation, good schools, parks, reliable public works
> 
> Republicans want low taxes and bare bones services



Then why are so many cities, run by Democrats in such deplorable condition?


----------



## Markle (Apr 2, 2017)

Nia88 said:


> I don't speak for all black people. But white people shouldn't act like they are experts in being black when they don't have a fucking clue what it means to be black in America .



They're not victims.


----------



## Markle (Apr 2, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> I love how Republicans don't want to raise minimum wage, they want to raise "earned income credits".  Earned Income Credits are the vehicle under which the 1% gets the middle class to subsidize their shitty wages, thereby increasing profits and earnings for the 1%, on the backs of the middle class.
> 
> The problem is the middle class keep blaming the poor for being poor, while voting for Republicans and Republican policies that keep them that way.
> 
> ...



They have a position open for you in Venezuela or maybe North Korea.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



How is that  possible when many cities get grant money from the state?  I know when  we were  cut off by the state, our  city had to cut services, cut unnecessary spending, cut overtime and even city positions.  We are still in the red thanks  to the funding that was stopped  by  Kasich.  

The state is funded by state income tax--not cities.  Roads are  usually funded by the state through gasoline and diesel fuel taxes.


----------



## Markle (Apr 2, 2017)

Timmy said:


> Boston , Seattle, San Fran.
> 
> There's 3 . DO you want to compare successful vs not ? You'll find red state cities at the bottom.



Boston
So convenient of you.  I only had to look at the first one to see you are lying.


*Poverty rates in Boston*
Residents with income below the poverty level in 2015: 
Boston:
26.0%

Whole state:
14.8%

Residents with income below 50% of the poverty level in 2015: 
Boston:
10.2%

Whole state:
5.4%
Poverty rate among disabled males: 
Boston:
21.6%

Massachusetts:
13.1%
Disability rate in this city among poor males (it is 20.9% among residents who are not classified as poor): 
Boston:
27.1%

Massachusetts:
13.1%
Poverty rate among disabled females: 
Boston:
26.1%

Massachusetts:
18.0%
Disability rate in this city among poor females (it is 21.4% among residents who are not classified as poor): 
Boston:
29.0%

Massachusetts:
18.0%
Renting rate in this city among poor and not poor residents: 
Residents below poverty level:
91.0%

Residents above poverty level:
62.4%
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/poverty/poverty-Boston-Massachusetts.html#ixzz4d8fbrHNF


----------



## bodecea (Apr 2, 2017)

Markle said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Republicans control the State Houses....that is where the money is
> ...


I'm sure you have no need for money.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 2, 2017)

boedicca said:


> Why do Democrats support importing Sharia Law which oppresses women and punishes gays into the U.S.?


We have a supreme law of the land; only the right wing, prefers to appeal to ignorance of it, in favor of their socialism on a national basis.


----------



## Timmy (Apr 2, 2017)

Markle said:


> Timmy said:
> 
> 
> > Boston , Seattle, San Fran.
> ...



Boston has one of the highest per capita income rates and home values in the country.  



But yeah,  as a city it will have poor and disabled people.

List of highest-income metropolitan statistical areas in the United States - Wikipedia


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 2, 2017)

bodecea said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


I have more need for the skill of, Perfection in Money Management as a form of Holy Grail; than I do with actual money, usually.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 2, 2017)

Markle said:


> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> > So Redfish you want the black babies to be born, but don't want to feed, or cloth them until they are able to themselves.
> ...


Providing for the general welfare; not just your national socialist cronies.


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 2, 2017)

Timmy said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Timmy said:
> ...





WTF?


----------



## Markle (Apr 2, 2017)

Timmy said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Timmy said:
> ...



You're a real lost case.  You can't even lie decently.
For your information.  Where your chosen cities rank in the order of poverty.







US city poverty rankings: Look up, compare nation's biggest cities


----------



## Timmy (Apr 2, 2017)

Markle said:


> Timmy said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Umm.  That's pretty low .  And don't forget "poverty " in San Fran is a kings ransome is theses hillbilly red states .


----------



## Markle (Apr 2, 2017)

bodecea said:


> I'm sure you have no need for money.



Not what I said is it?


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 2, 2017)

Timmy said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > Timmy said:
> ...


You would need it with its high cost of taxes and living,  but yes Boston is a nice city downtown at least it was in the late 1980s

.


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 2, 2017)

Timmy said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > Timmy said:
> ...



To bad it all goes to housing and taxes other wise yes... They would be living like a king. 


.


----------



## Markle (Apr 2, 2017)

Timmy said:


> But yeah, as a city it will have poor and disabled people.



The subject was the rate of people living in poverty.

Comprehension isn't your strong point, is it?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 2, 2017)

Markle said:


> Timmy said:
> 
> 
> > But yeah, as a city it will have poor and disabled people.
> ...


the right wing habitually complains our poor are not really poor enough, by third world Standards.  thus, we have actually, eliminated true, third world standards of poverty in the US, with our War on Poverty.  Can our alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror, lay any claim to any greater accomplishment.


----------



## Preacher (Apr 2, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?


Simple. It keeps them in power. Exact same reason they couldn't care less about the invasion of America by illegal mexicans and all kinds of other non whites....give them free shit they vote democrat for life.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



*Cities are where the money is......they finance the rest of the state*

That's weird, Chicago is asking the state to bail out their schools.


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 2, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > Timmy said:
> ...



Tell them that...


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 3, 2017)

Markle said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Republicans control the State Houses....that is where the money is
> ...



Republicans....Let em die


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 3, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Economic engines for the states are in it's cities
You think they make money off the farmers?


----------



## NoNukes (Apr 3, 2017)

Odium said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?
> ...


I vote Democrat, when do I get my free shit?


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 3, 2017)

Markle said:


> Timmy said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Those ranks are not too bad....Not every city can aspire to be Flower Mound Town Texas


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




more talking point bullshit.   Do you ever have an original thought?   Low taxes and efficient government are what every person with a brain wants. 

Why do you want to pay high taxes?   Are you a complete idiot?


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > Timmy said:
> ...


Boston, Seattle, and SFO do not have low crime rates, and are not fiscally sound.  Those cities have some very rich liberals that skew the average.  They also have very high tax rates.

Face it dudes and dudettes,  liberalism does not work, never has, never will


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...



Of course they are


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...



Its all relative

I'd rather pay high taxes and live in a safe community with good schools, parks and good public works than pay low taxes and live in a shithole


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



You need some type of balance,  like my posts before I always stressed what's the point of making a lot of money if you live in your car in your employers parking lot like some do in Seattle. 

And for you to still think every city in the south looks like the outskirts of Memphis in the year 2017 is just playing the same hyber bowl we always play with Detroit. 


.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



*Economic engines for the states are in it's cities*

What's wrong with Chicago's engine?
Maybe too many illegal aliens?
Does that explain their request for an Illinois bailout for Chicago schools?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



And with that being said, I'm sure you're against our military spending because you think our military is plenty strong.   


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




its not a zero sum game, fool.   You can live in a safe community with all of those things if you have an efficient honest government and low taxes.  

If you don't think that the central cities of Detroit, Philly, New York, Boston, Chicago, and LA are not shitholes (with high taxes and dem governments) then you are living in a complete fantasy world.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


*
I'd rather pay high taxes and live in a safe community with good schools, parks and good public works than pay low taxes and live in a shithole*

Or you could live in Chicago with high taxes, crappy schools and high crime.
Chicago, Democrat run since 1931.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?



What policy is that, specifically?

What's your alternative, specifically?


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 3, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...




Where is that girl poster who still lives in Chicago she cracked me up complaining about a snickers candy bar cost more then a Hershey bar because Chicago has an extra tax on peanuts lol


.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?
> ...




OK, I will try to go slow and use small words so you might understand.

democrats favor having lots of americans on welfare and food stamps and living in poverty.   Why? you ask.    Because they know that people who are dependent on them will continue to vote for them.   If they remain in power they can continue to get rich at public expense.

the alternative,   an economy with an ever growing number of new jobs,  welfare only for those who are physically or mentally unable to care for themselves---and for them sufficient help to live comfortable lives.   For those able to work, personal responsibility and accountability, no free lunch.  You get what you earn, work for, have talent for, have skills for.  Freedom to live your life as you choose, freedom to succeed or fail.   Said another way,  the dream of the founders of this great nation.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 3, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Been to Chicago.....Good time

Rather live there than in Buttfuck Texas


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...




what do you find funny about our founders, our declaration of independence, and our constitution, winger?    Those words and ideals are in our founding documents.   Have you ever had a class in American history?


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Fantasy

There is no free lunch


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




your choice,  no one here cares.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



you are correct, someone has to pay for it, usually those who work for a living and pay taxes.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 3, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Worked for DoD almost 40 years

We buy some wicked shit. Doesn't mean it is justified to trade off quality of life at home for a Military that can kick ass on the other side of the world


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



You mean people other than Trump


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



You make a false assumption unsupported by any facts, and you fail to provide any specifics.

You lose.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




without a kick ass military there would be no quality of life in this country.  I do agree that we should not be the world's police force or telling other countries how to live.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




Is his 25% tax rate not sufficient?   He paid a higher rate than Sanders, Clinton, and most of Hollywood.   Should he be required to pay more because you don't like him?


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 3, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...




Seriously NY?



.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...




which assumption is false?   That democrats want a permanent dependent underclass? or that they want to stay in power to get personally rich?

Both of those "assumptions" are easily proven if you watch the news just a few minutes a day, or if you study democrat legislation starting with FDR.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



What are you talking about?  Medicaid?  You want to end Medicaid tomorrow, completely, because it will make poor people less poor?

Explain how that would work.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 3, 2017)

bear513 said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



I've been on unemployment.  You're required to look for work.  You're required in most cases to take work.

I was on unemployment 25 years ago.  I had to look for work and get signed statements of the places I'd been.  I ended up getting a job that I worked for 22 years.


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 3, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...




Congrats,  you do remember the 99 weekers? The democrats almost had a heartache when the program ended

They were afraid to lose votes. 



.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...




Did I say eliminate Medicaid?   NO.   Medicaid is how the uninsured were cared for before obamacare.   Its a good program and should be expanded once the terrible ACA is repealed. 

I am talking about the millions of able bodied americans who are living on welfare, food stamps, EBT cards, and govt housing.   Wouldn't they be better off with jobs?  Supporting themselves?   You probably say yes, but your dem friends in congress disagree, because a self supporting person is a thinking person and a thinking person might not vote dem.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


11 years ago in a partial return


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...




its not that way today.   there is no "must look for work" requirement.


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...




It is where I live,  well they have to at least keep a journal of places they applied... 


.


----------



## Dragonlady (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Bullshit.  Without meddling into the governments of other countries, you wouldn't need to defend yourself at home.  Are you even aware of WHY Iranians hate Americans?  Of the number of right wing dictatorships the US supported because they believed "better dead than Red" and these strong men opposed communism?  Manuel Noriega, Saddam Hussein, The Shah of Iran, Marcos, and many, many others.  

Americans revel in their military.  Trump is already talking about taking on North Korea.  Idiots.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




it was his entire 1040, showing gross income, deductions, exemptions, taxable income, and taxes paid.   He paid a rate around 25% and his return was in compliance with the tax code.   If he was not in full compliance with the tax code don't you think some of the Obama cronies in the IRS would have leaked it by now?


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



LOL

Of course there would    There isn't a nation on earth capable of invading us. We haven't been invaded in 200 years


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Two pages from 11 years ago...what is he hiding?


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

bear513 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...




yes, I understand that.


"while I was eating at McDonalds I asked one of the cashiers if they needed any help"
"I looked for help wanted signs while on the way to pick up some pot"


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...





What exactly do you call 9/11?


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...



See?  This is why I'm quite comfortable classifying you as the dumbest poster on USMB - when you make a statement like that

PART 473 - New York State Department of Labor


----------



## miketx (Apr 3, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > With how fast the middle class is shrinking you should be concerned for everyone.  I don't hear real answers from either party.
> ...


He understands, but that's not in the regressive agenda. They want to keep hurting us.


----------



## miketx (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Most likely they call it a family event.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




Probably that while complying with the tax code he was allowed to write off some capital gains and other forms of income.   LEGALLY.

The problem, and we all know it, is that the media and the dems would pull out one page, create lies about it, and use it to distract the public from what is really going on in the country.   Even you should understand that.


----------



## Preacher (Apr 3, 2017)

NoNukes said:


> Odium said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Nothing weirder than a WORKING class person voting democrat...especially if they pay attention to dem policies that kill jobs. I mean I can understand NOT voting republican but voting democrat just seems idiotic. I prefer populists that put my country first.


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 3, 2017)

Odium said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > Odium said:
> ...





*Nothing weirder than a WORKING class person voting democrat...especially if they pay attention to dem policies that kill jobs. *


Exactly 



.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...




Yes, those requirements exist in every state, I agree.   But they are not enforced.  UE payments are not stopped if the person fails to apply for a certain number of jobs. 

Your naivete is amazing.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Apr 3, 2017)

*Why do democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare?*

Lifetime limit of welfare is 60 months.
Retarded premise.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Do you know what an invasion is?

The strongest military in history couldn't stop an attack


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Hutch Starskey said:


> *Why do democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare?*
> 
> Lifetime limit of welfare is 60 months.
> Retarded premise.




60 months is 5 years.   then you have another kid and start the process over.   We have generations who have spent their entire lives on welfare.   Do you live on the moon?


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 3, 2017)

Hutch Starskey said:


> *Why do democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare?*
> 
> Lifetime limit of welfare is 60 months.
> Retarded premise.



You don't know what doctor shopping is an the epidemic of young males and females in their 30s and 40s on Social security disability?


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Someone who earns $20,000 a year is not paying taxes legally and complying with the tax code

Yet conservatives condemn them as the 47%


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




an attack is phase 1 of an invasion.   phase 2 is millions entering the country illegally and attacking from within,  phase 1 is history, phase 2 is happening today.  Do you understand that DOD stands for Department of Defense?


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




Enemy with in and that was the F. B. I.  And C. I. A.  Job....


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

bear513 said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > *Why do democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare?*
> ...




he only knows the dem talking points fed to him by his masters.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




someone making 20K is probably not paying any federal income taxes and is in compliance with the tax code.   Do you want them to pay?


----------



## Dragonlady (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



A terrorist attack.  An "invasion" is when troops from a foreign country land on US soil, and proceed to "invade" the country.  The last time it happened, was the War of 1812, when British soldiers burned down the White House.

Similarly, Pearl Harbour, while a terrible event in US history with great loss of life, was also NOT an invasion.  No Japanese troops landed on US soil.  Pearl Harbour was an "attack", not an invasion.

It doesn't change the horror of the events or the loss of life and devastation caused in these attacks, but they were not invasions.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

bear513 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...




correct, and because of Clinton those intelligence agencies were not able to do their jobs.


----------



## Dragonlady (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



You mean like BENGHAZI, BENGHAZI,  BENGHAZI????


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




splitting hairs, but OK


----------



## BrokeLoser (Apr 3, 2017)

Odium said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > Odium said:
> ...



I think the only working class voting Democrat are government employees, some union hands, minorities, weirdos, gays and trannys.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




No, that was an intentional disregard of American lives for political gain.  not sure what that has to do with democrats hating poor black people.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > *Why do democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare?*
> ...



No.
Do you understand what lifetime limit means? The sixty month limit was passed in 1996 with the Democrat sponsored welfare reform.


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 3, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




You forgot the little known/ forgotten history when Japanese troops invaded some Alaskan islands 



.


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 3, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




Have to admit that was perfect spin by the democrats to blame a movie right before an election....


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



People entering this country are working not attacking us


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 3, 2017)

bear513 said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Alaska was not a state


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...




Its not enforced.  Do you comprehend that?   Generational welfare is real.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




some are.    Do you make any distinction between legal and illegal entry?


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Really?

You need to post that up.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...




neither was Hawaii.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...



Really?   you must be a moonbat.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 3, 2017)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...


It is simply, irrational policy; it is like saying, employment at will ends after five years and becomes for-cause employment.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Hmm...so you're simply talking out of your ass then. Nothing new.

Dumb thread. Especially when the largest recipients of federal assistance are the red states.


----------



## Preacher (Apr 3, 2017)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...


Uh no its not. I know a few people who have had food stamps for more than 5 years and you have to do a review every 6 months.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Apr 3, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



It should be unlimited then?


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...



That's your spin? We owned it and bought it from the Russians fool almost a 100 years before.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Apr 3, 2017)

Odium said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Food stamps is not welfare.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 3, 2017)

Hutch Starskey said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...


it should stop when a capital gain preference solves our unemployment problem.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Make them legal


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > They helped the whole country by creating the middle class. As they have declined so has the middle class.
> ...



You mean the execs destroyed those companies.  Unions just built the cars.  The execs chose to sell some ugly cars and hired the designers and engineers.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




everyone that wants to come in?  no limits?   Are you serious?   How much immigration is too much?   or should we just completely do away with our borders?  

are you as dumb as you appear to be?


----------



## mudwhistle (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?


They don't want blacks on welfare. They want them working for  $15/hr at Burger King so they can pay for all of the illegals that are on welfare.


----------



## Dragonlady (Apr 3, 2017)

BrokeLoser said:


> Odium said:
> 
> 
> > NoNukes said:
> ...



That you think that is WHY you are a Broke Loser.


----------



## BrokeLoser (Apr 3, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> > Odium said:
> ...



You really got me good there...I'm so hurt.
Did I make it up? Who else votes Dem these days?
I'm right on point and you know this.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Odium said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...




free food is not welfare,  then what is it?   If free money is welfare, why isn't free food welfare?


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




no need to worry, Obama saved the UAW with the GM bailout.


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 3, 2017)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Odium said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...




Yes it is

People barter with them all the time. 


.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...




if you do a little checking you will find that a lot more federal money goes to California and New York than all the red states combined.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...



We need to expand unions again.  Their decline had been disasterous for the middle class.  More unions will make it harder for immigrants to find work, fixing that problem too.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



And if that's true then California and New York pay more in federal taxes than all the red states combined,

and then some.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Apr 3, 2017)




----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 3, 2017)

Markle said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Looks pretty red statey to me
> ...



Aren't you the guy who just put a county by county map pretending it showed how big a win Trump got?

Now you've decided counties aren't relevant?

lol, typical RWnut.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 3, 2017)

Markle said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Just to set the record straight, consider this:
> ...



40% of Medicare is paid out of the genera fund above and beyond the payroll tax receipts.

For God's sake quit making shit up.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> However this is not the story everywhere. Other wealthy countries have considerably lower poverty rates than the United States. There are a variety of factors that affect poverty rates but one that stands out is the power of unions. There is a very strong inverse relationship between the percentage of workers who are covered by a union contract and the poverty rate as measured by the OECD.[1]
> 
> Unions: The Best Fix to Poverty


Astonishing Numbers: America's Poor Still Live Better Than Most Of The Rest Of Humanity


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 3, 2017)

bear513 said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...



They had to look for work too.  Quit being a retard.  You're giving retards a bad name.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Oh for Chrissakes stop saying such stupid shit.  Goddam your stupidity is depressing.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 3, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > However this is not the story everywhere. Other wealthy countries have considerably lower poverty rates than the United States. There are a variety of factors that affect poverty rates but one that stands out is the power of unions. There is a very strong inverse relationship between the percentage of workers who are covered by a union contract and the poverty rate as measured by the OECD.[1]
> ...



That would be proof the war on poverty works.


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 3, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...




Quit the spin,  they milked the 99 weeks and you know it. 



.


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 3, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




No it's proof that giving people free shit makes them forget democrat's held them as slaves forever.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Apr 3, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


so wtf are you people whining about?


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 3, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



Unemployment was 8.0 in 2013, when they got rid of the 99 weeks of benefits in Jan 2014 it dropped like a rock to 5.9




So you tell us they were not milking it. 



Bureau of Labor Statistics Data


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



not as dumb as building The Great Wall of Trump


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > However this is not the story everywhere. Other wealthy countries have considerably lower poverty rates than the United States. There are a variety of factors that affect poverty rates but one that stands out is the power of unions. There is a very strong inverse relationship between the percentage of workers who are covered by a union contract and the poverty rate as measured by the OECD.[1]
> ...



Sure, but if you ever want real strong economic growth again we need a strong middle class.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 3, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



*Are you even aware of WHY Iranians hate Americans?*

The mullahs are mad that we don't live like 7th century savages.
Everyday people in Iran like the US. We'd see that if Obama hadn't
wimped out and refused to support their protestors attempts to free themselves from the mullahs.


----------



## BrokeLoser (Apr 3, 2017)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...



*"Dumb thread. Especially when the largest recipients of federal assistance are the red states."*

"Oh geez, more of the same from the desperate and confused Liberals.
California - 12% of the nations population, 33% of the nations welfare recipients - FACT
By the way Hawaii and New York are fighting CA for that number one spot....are they blue or red states? hahaha
Here you go:
It Looks Like Red States Take Most in Federal 'Welfare' from this Map. But Looks Can Be Deceiving.
California’s Welfare Benefits: Boom or Bust?
"There has been much discussion about immigrants in the United States from everywhere around the world. Yet, why is it that California seems to attract the most immigrants of any state? Indeed, while the state is only 12% of the nation’s population, it is home to 33% of welfare residents. According to a report published by the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) on January 26, 2015, there is a correlation between generous welfare benefits and an increase in immigration.

In total, California outspends every other state in public welfare spending – in 2014, it spent $22.4 billion. In contrast, the next closest state, New York, spent $11.9 billion. That being said, does this make California a magnet for immigrants? Not necessarily. It is more of an anchor – a reason why residents stay for long periods of time in the state. However, to deny that there is no magnet would be incorrect. According to George J. Borjas, the Robert W. Scrivner Professor of Economics and Social Policy at the Harvard Kennedy School and the author of the aforementioned report, the reason as to why people decide to relocate is due to “income-maximizing behavior.” Immigrants have already accepted that there are certain fixed costs that are inevitable because of migration, so it is natural that they will flock towards the places with the highest benefits. Empirical evidence suggests that it is because of these differences that there are an increasingly disproportionate number of immigrants among states. While there is the possibility of alternative explanations for this phenomenon, the conclusion that Borjas draws using the wealth-maximization hypothesis is one such testable method.

However, upon closer examination, on a per-capita basis, California’s seemingly generous benefits pale in data comparison to other states. For example, it spends approximately $179 for every resident, behind $233 in Hawaii and $256 in New York. Furthermore, approximately 8.9% of California residents live in poverty, the highest of any state. Despite this, the number of people immigrating to California increases exponentially each year."


----------



## BrokeLoser (Apr 3, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...



Haha...thank God for "big corp" setting up camp in CA and NY because the contributors sure the fuck aren't their trashy, low-life citizens.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




*We need to expand unions again.*

Nah. We need to kill the corrupt unions.
*
More unions will make it harder for immigrants to find work, fixing that problem too.*

That's funny!

Labor leaders reportedly are launching a new recruiting push by reaching out to those immigrants affected by Obama's immigration announcement last month. 

_The actions are expected to offer work permits to some 4 million immigrants who entered the U.S. illegally and, until now, were reluctant to join unions for fear of retaliation. Union leaders now say the president's actions give them new protections -- and are keen on signing them up._ 

Unions launch recruiting push for immigrants protected by Obama actions


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 3, 2017)

BrokeLoser said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



English please.  That makes no sense.


----------



## Dragonlady (Apr 3, 2017)

BrokeLoser said:


> ". . . . . . Furthermore, approximately 8.9% of California residents live in poverty, the highest of any state. Despite this, the number of people immigrating to California increases exponentially each year."



US Poverty Level By State

Louisiana has a poverty rate of 23%, Mississippi - 22%

California isn't even in the top 10 of the highest poverty rate in the US.

Given that the National poverty rate in 2014 was 14.8% of the population, how could 8.9% be the highest poverty rate of any State?

Your study from an anti-immigrant website is a piece of shit.  If it's basic premises is based on false or misleading information, how good can it's conclusions be.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


based on what exactly can you possibly draw that stupid conclusion?


----------



## Skull Pilot (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



so you're saying the entire middle class is now the so called poor?


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> We've trIed that.  It all goes to the rich.  Taxes are at historic lows.


dear brain-2, corporate taxes are highest in world. All we need is to eliminate them to bring back 10 million jobs.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



The quote and link obviously.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > We've trIed that.  It all goes to the rich.  Taxes are at historic lows.
> ...



The largest corporations pay 0 in taxes.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



I'm saying the middle class has been shrinking and that has slowed our growth.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


really?  a nobody article is what you're banking off of.  too funny.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



in 2014 over 50% of households were considered to be in the middle class

which leaves less than 50% split between upper and lower

I would say that over 50% of the country living a middle class standard of life is quite good


----------



## jc456 (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


where did it go?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



You didn't even read it.


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## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



The 1%


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



What do you base that on?

Here's How Much the U.S. Middle Class Has Changed in 45 Years


----------



## jc456 (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


why would I have to?  It's an opinion piece.  I give two shits about an opinion piece.  try again.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Bullshit.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



Then you can't have an educated oppinion on it.  Just talking out your ass.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


27 giant profitable companies paid no taxes


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


_
Take United Continental, which reported a $3.2 billion income tax credit in 2015 despite reporting earnings before taxes of $4.2 billion. Accounting rules allow the airline to offset taxes due with valuation allowances resulting from losses in past years. During 2015, these allowances amounted to $4.7 billion which erased the company's $1.5 billion tax bill based on its normal corporate tax rate._

That's so weird, a company is allowed to offset income with losses.
So if you lose $1 million this year and make $1 million next year, you won't pay taxes.

Only a moron thinks that means big companies pay no taxes.
What it means is companies pay taxes when they're profitable and don't when they're not.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



So they didn't pay tax on a profitable year.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


How US Tax Policy Encourages Outrageous CEO Compensation


----------



## Flash (Apr 3, 2017)

These welfare queens have a great deal going.

They don't have to work much.

All they have to do is sign up to be a slave on the Democrat Slave Plantation.  Then they take it easy and their only job duties are every two years go to the polls and vote for their Democrats Slave Masters.

They get a nice check each month and housing subsidies and healthcare subsidies and food stamps that somebody else has to pay for and it beats the hell out of picking cotton, doesn't it?

In several of the Democrat controlled commie states nobody even bothers to ask them if they are eligible to vote.  Sweet, huh?


----------



## Skull Pilot (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


Household Income Quintiles

if you look at the 3rd quintile stats which is the middle 20% of households you will see the mean as well as the upper limits of their income rise steadily 

I don't see how you can say the middle class makes less when it clearly makes more


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



*So they didn't pay tax on a profitable year.*

The carried forward loss eliminated the current profit.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



so tell me why do you think what a CEO makes has any effect on what you make?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



And if they ever come close to having to pay they throw more money at the execs.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




Yeah, Clinton really fucked that one up, didn't he?
_
Executive pay over $1 million doesn’t constitute a “legitimate business expense”—meaning that corporations can’t deduct any pay over $1 million from their income. But corporations can deduct any pay that represents a reward for “performance.” Not surprisingly, corporations simply define the vast bulk of executive compensation as “performance-based pay.”_

LOL!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Right, because shareholders love companies with no income. DERP!


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



When did I say that?


----------



## Skull Pilot (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



then why else whine about what Ceos make?


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




We now have laws to protect workers from the abuses that the unions were started to deal with.  The only things unions do today is make the union bosses rich and funnel money to the democrat party.      How much do you think your oranges would cost if there was an orange pickers union?


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...




great, then there is balance, why is that a problem?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



You didn't read the link obviously.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




should a country have borders and control who comes in?  yes or no


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Union workers make more whether we are talking auto workers or teachers.  More good jobs drives an economy.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


don't have to

because what any CEO gets paid doesn't matter


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> > ". . . . . . Furthermore, approximately 8.9% of California residents live in poverty, the highest of any state. Despite this, the number of people immigrating to California increases exponentially each year."
> ...




do you understand the difference between legal immigrant and illegal alien?   If you don't, then you have no place in this discussion.   No one opposes controlled legal immigration. 

only idiots like you want unlimited illegal immigration.


----------



## Richard-H (Apr 3, 2017)

The majority of people on government assistance are working poor. These assistance programs benefit their employers more than the recipients.

If you want to reduce welfare pay outs, insist that employers pay a living wage.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




do you understand that if an employer has to pay his workers more, he has to raise his prices?   when prices go up, sales go down.  Then he doesn't need as many workers.

its pretty basic, it amazes me that you libs don't get it.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Richard-H said:


> The majority of people on government assistance are working poor. These assistance programs benefit their employers more than the recipients.
> 
> If you want to reduce welfare pay outs, insist that employers pay a living wage.




define "living wage".   How much per hour is a living wage?   Is it the same in manhattan as in cow crossing Texas?    Is it the same for a single person as for a father of 4?   Who decides?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...


It might help since you missed my point completely.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Unless it is executive pay right?  Then it can go up with no negative effects right?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Are you for kicking out immigrants?  Tariffs?


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




I agree that many CEOs are overpaid.   They are paid to make their stock price go up and thereby make money for their shareholders.   Do you have a 401K?   do you want its value to increase?

Why do all you libs hate rich people?  unless they are Hollywood types or congressmen.

Do you have any idea what the Clinton crime family is worth?   Do you hate them for getting rich at the expense of US taxpayers?


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




I am for enforcing the immigration laws already on our books.   I am for making American businesses successful and creating jobs for American citizens.   Are you opposed to either of those concepts?  if so, why?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Nope:
Highest-Paid CEOs Run Some of the Worst-Performing Companies


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



So what will happen when all the cheap labor is gone?


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




they wont be there long then.   CEOs are paid to produce, if they don't, they are kicked out. 

So you don't find fault with the Clintons getting insanely rich by taking bribes from foreign interests and countries and selling influence to special interests in and out of this country?  and then lying about it.


----------



## BrokeLoser (Apr 3, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> > ". . . . . . Furthermore, approximately 8.9% of California residents live in poverty, the highest of any state. Despite this, the number of people immigrating to California increases exponentially each year."
> ...



You kooks are amazing...you're hands-down the best at misleading the shit out of yourselves...haha
Anyone who's been to Southern California in the last ten years knows it has been overrun by illegals...they have essentially turned SoCal into the same third world shithole from which they came. Southern California is North Mexico.
TRUE: California has the nation’s highest poverty rate

Why Does California Have The Nation's Highest Poverty Rate?


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




supply and demand will set the price of labor---------as it should.   If an orange farmer can only get his fruit picked for $10/hour that's what he will have to pay.   Econ 101,  try it.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



They stay far too long and leave on a golden parachute.  But that's ok, we can't pay the workers more.


----------



## Richard-H (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Richard-H said:
> 
> 
> > The majority of people on government assistance are working poor. These assistance programs benefit their employers more than the recipients.
> ...




Most large corporations vary their salaries based on the cost of living in the area, so minimum wage should be indexed by the cost of living in an area.

Minimum wage should pay enough for the employee to pay for the basics plus enough to support 2 children.

That would be housing, food, clothing, transportation and medical insurance, plus a small amount for other things like books.

The fact is that as long as employers do not pay enough for these things, we the tax payers have to pay for them.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


So as you said:
when prices go up, sales go down.  Then he doesn't need as many workers.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Richard-H said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Richard-H said:
> ...




move to north korea or Venezuela.   they have the system that you admire so much.

but you dodged the question.   Who decides what is a living wage for any individual?   Does a female get more if she keeps having kids?   what kind of housing? what kind of food?  what kind of medical insurance?  minimal or what the person "wants" ?

none of this shit is as easy as you libs want to make it.

Why not just guarantee every American an annual income of 100K whether they work or not?  Sound "fair"?   CEOs and orange pickers get the same pay, the ultimate socialist utopia, right?    Now, would anyone work hard in such a system?  would anyone even work?


----------



## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




I think you get it.   forcing wages up destroys the economy.   there may be hope for you.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Based on your arguments kicking out immigrants will destroy our economy.  You are for that?


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Sure......worker permits for all
Criminals go to jail


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## Richard-H (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...




Do you realize that a lot of Americans make a lot of money because of the low cost of labor by illegal immigrants?

In fact, anyone who believes in 'Free Market' would believe that government should not interfere with immigration at all. If there's a market demand for immigrant labor, the government should not stand in the way.

I do not ascribe to this idea, but I'm just pointing out the inconsistency in 'Conservative' thinking. They say they are for 'free market' yet they are against NAFTA and free trade with China as well as immigration.

So is you're comment about 'making American business successful AND cerating jobs for Americans". that is contrsdictory. I know it makes for a good sound bite, but in fact removing illegal immigrants and forcing employers to only hire legal Americans means that many employers will go out of business. Many more will see a reduction in profits.

I have a guitar, manufactured in San Diego, that says "Made in U.S.A". It should say "Made in the U.S.A. by Mexican Immigrants"


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## rightwinger (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > BrokeLoser said:
> ...


Paperwork

Easy enough fix


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## BrokeLoser (Apr 3, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



I usually pretend to be confused when I'm stumped as well. It's okay, let me spell it out for you.
Just as Bill Gates makes Medina, WA look good on paper (think average income) so do the mega corporations and the extremely wealthy in CA and NY. Thanks to old money and the mega rich California and New York can still look good on a "framed" spreadsheet and you suckers eat it up....meanwhile the majority of residents live in filth on Top Ramen diets.


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## Richard-H (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Richard-H said:
> 
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> > Redfish said:
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Once again another gross exaggeration by a wing nut.

I only have to look to Canada or Australia for the system I described.

No, I didn't dodge your question. Please reread my message and try to comprehend it this time.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 3, 2017)

Richard-H said:


> The majority of people on government assistance are working poor. These assistance programs benefit their employers more than the recipients.
> 
> If you want to reduce welfare pay outs, insist that employers pay a living wage.



Insisting that companies pay more than a worker generates will reduce employment and increase welfare spending.


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## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
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totally wrong.   Kicking out illegal immigrants will strengthen our economy by putting americans in those jobs.   maybe at slightly higher hourly rates and that may drive some prices up.   But we will no longer be spending billions providing welfare, medical care, and schooling for those here illegally.

I just do not understand why you libs condone people being in OUR country illegally.   No other country in the world allows that, and the ones that have allowed massive legal immigration are being torn apart, look at what is happening in Germany.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Employers will have to increase wages of American workers.


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## BrokeLoser (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
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Richard-H said:


> Redfish said:
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Shit fellas....I'm thinking we should just go pluck some Zulus from the jungles...pay them a dollar a day. We could really make some rich mother-fuckers that way...huh? Whatta ya say?


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## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Redfish said:
> 
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> > Dragonlady said:
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so your plan is to ignore violations of your laws and make everyone legal.   unlimited?   do we let everyone in?  are there any limits? 

how about if we ignore all laws that we don't like.   I don't like having to drive 65 on the interstate, why cant I drive 85 if I think that law is stupid?

but seriously, how much immigration is too much?   would you put any limits on it?


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## Richard-H (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
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> > Redfish said:
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Actually forcing wages up does not destroy the economy. It causing economic growth.

Even the economic theory know as 'supply side' promotes the idea that the more money workers get the more demand for product which increases profits. That gives the employers the opportuniyy to invest more which in turn means paying more money to workers.

The unfortunate thing about supply side is that even though employers get more money and have the opportunity to invest in high growth investments that create jobs, usually they do not. They'd rather invest in highly secure low growth investments that do not create jobs. So it falls apart, bu tnot becuase workers getting more money doesn't stimulate the economy.


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## Richard-H (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
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> > Redfish said:
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The solution to the immigration problem is called 'Comprehensive Immigration Reform'. That means studying the immigration system and policies and changing them so that they work better for everyone.

republicans are against 'Comprehensive Immigration Reform' because they need an immigration crisis as a political football.


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## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Richard-H said:


> Redfish said:
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Canada and Australia don't guarantee a minimum income.  They have welfare systems just like we do. 

you want to use tax revenue to equalize incomes.  You want to punish success and reward failure.   Marx would be proud.   Have you told Oprah that she will have to give 3/4 of what she has to poor people?


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## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
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So your own arguments are totally wrong?  Go figure.  You seem really confused.


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## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Richard-H said:


> Redfish said:
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> > rightwinger said:
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bullshit.   the GOP has been pushing for some comprehensive humane changes for years.  the dems have resisted for fear of losing votes.  You must have gone to a liberal college in the northeast or California,  right?


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## Richard-H (Apr 3, 2017)

BrokeLoser said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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> > Redfish said:
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Wow, you've just told the story of the history of Western economics in a nutshell!

Or are you saying that you are against free market economics?


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## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
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> > Redfish said:
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So prices will go up, sales down.  And then fewer workers needed?


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## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
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> > Brain357 said:
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nothing inconsistent in anything I have said.   Jobs being taken today by illegals should be done by americans.   If the American refuses to do the job for what it pays, then he/she is on his/her own.    The country does not owe you a living, a living wage, medical insurance, a cell phone, or a job.   Freedom, real freedom, includes both the freedom to succeed and the freedom to fail.   participation trophies destroy people and civilizations.


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## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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yes, until demand increases and prices can be raised.   again, econ 101.


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## Richard-H (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Richard-H said:
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The only solution that Republicans have offered is Donald Trump's solution. They have never been willing to negotiate within recent years.

And BTW, I went to Engineering School. No politics at all.


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## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Richard-H said:


> BrokeLoser said:
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He was joking, why do no liberals have a sense of humor?


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## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
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You said forcing wages up would destroy the economy.  Eliminating cheap immigrant labor would do that.


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## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Richard-H said:


> Redfish said:
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Not even close to being true.   the dems refuse to address anything but open borders and complete amnesty, including sanctuary cities that harbor criminals.

engineer, eh?   what happens if you put 220 to a 110 motor?   same thing that happens when you pay a burger flipper $15/hour.


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## Redfish (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
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and in the short term that is exactly what would happen.   But if americans earned the same as the illegals, then the economy would flourish and new jobs would open up for those same americans.   an over supply of labor is why wages are low,   balance supply and demand and everything works.   Even John Maynard Keynes agreed with that.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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Some prices will go up, some will go down.
Some industries will employ more workers, some will employ fewer.
America wages will rise, illegal aliens will see their wages fall.


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## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
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> > Toddsterpatriot said:
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So they is bad for unions, but good for kicking out immigrants?  Do you always contradict yourself?


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## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
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We will import more goods.


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## BrokeLoser (Apr 3, 2017)

Richard-H said:


> BrokeLoser said:
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Redfish said:


> Richard-H said:
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Yes, I was definitely joking. The point being; many want to hide behind this whole "cheap labor is a great thing" bunch of bullshit...I believe it's an opinion pushed by illegals and people of recent illegal descent...anyhoo, if that's where you stand...fuck it...let's bring slave labor back and save some lives in Africa while we're at it.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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Why?


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## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
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Prices of domestic will go up.

Will hurt exports too.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> > Brain357 said:
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We can't boot illegal aliens because that would hurt exports?


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## Brain357 (Apr 3, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
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We export lots of food which would increase in price, decreasing demand.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 3, 2017)

Richard-H said:


> Redfish said:
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> > rightwinger said:
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Changing  our laws because of political pressure from foreigners is like letting  rapists  change the penalty for  rape or a  murderer  the penalty for murder.  Do you know what  "Reform" means?  It means  illegals don't like the way we do things so change it for them. 

There  is nothing wrong with  our immigration system.  It's tough to get  in, it's tough to become a citizen, but it's worth it in the end.   Nothing  worthwhile in life comes easy.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> The largest corporations pay 0 in taxes.



dear brain-2,
you mean some of them pay 0%, and one way they do it legally is to move off shore where taxes are far lower. If we reduce or eliminate the tax 10 million jobs will come back and corps won't have to move off shore and take their jobs with them. Do you understand?


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 3, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Richard-H said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
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*Democrats/Liberals have made clear that they wish to overturn the Constitution and replace it with foreign law.*


1. In a blistering dissent, *Scalia,* Rehnquist and Thomas wrote: “I do not believe that approval by ‘other nations and peoples’ should buttress our commitment to American principles any more than…disapproval by other ‘nations and peoples’ should weaken our commitment. More importantly,” *foreign sources were being cited “not to underscore our fidelity to the Constitution” or to the American heritage, but rather “to set aside the centuries-old America practice- *a practice still engaged in by a large majority of the relevant states- of letting a jury of 12 citizens decide whether, in a particular case, youth should be the basis of withholding the death penalty.” ROPER V. SIMMONS

2. Scalia pointed out that Supreme Court *Justices who cite international opinion* do so only when it conforms to their own, liberal, preferences. Further, he point out that American law in the areas of the exclusionary rule, abortion law, church-state relationships law, our law is more liberal than European laws….and that the Justices do not refer to alien law in those cases.


3. *In the last few years, Kennedy, Breyer, Ginsburg, O’Connor and Stevens have all invoked foreign law in making decisions and filing dissents. *
Fonte, “Sovereignty or Submission,” p. 110.

a. In 2003, Breyer, Ginsburg, and O’Connor met with French president Chirac to discuss *French views on the death penalty.* This, as the French were a prime mover on the Council of Europe with the announced intention of “abolishing capital punishment in the United States.” Multilateralism comes to the courts > Public Interest > National Affairs

b. “ In Grutter, Justice Ruth Bader *Ginsburg (joined by Justice Stephen Breyer) cited both the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (which the United States has ratified) and the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (which it has not) as evidence of an “international understanding of the office of affirmative action.” *In Justice Ginsburg’s view, these international conventions provide the grounds for “temporary special measures aimed at accelerating de facto equality.” Ibid.

c. “In Lawrence, Justice Anthony Kennedy prominently recurred to a friend-of-the-Court brief on *foreign law and court decisions* filed by Mary Robinson, the former U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights, and to a key decision of the European Court of Human Rights.” Ibid.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 3, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
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Why would food increase in price?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 3, 2017)

Richard-H said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Richard-H said:
> ...



No, we the taxpayers don't  have to pay for them,  it's just liberals force  us to pay for them.  The solution to  that  problem  is  vote conservative.  

If minimum wage should be enough  to support a  house, two children, a dog, a nice  car and whatever you dream up, do you realize what kind of domino effect that would have on the economy?  

So let's say on average it takes $35,000 for a person with a monkey job  to have  these  things you believe they should have.  What about the people that  earn $35,000 today doing more complicated  or dangerous work?  You would have to pay them $50,000 a year, wouldn't you?  And what about the person currently making 50K a year  that  has more training, experience and time in with the company than that guy who was making  35K a year?  His wage would have to go from 50K a year to 75k.  And the list goes on and on.  

By the time it makes a full circle, the guy now making  35K a year can  no longer  afford that  house or those kids because his  costs  went  up dramatically.  He finds himself  right back where he  started.


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## danielpalos (Apr 3, 2017)

bear513 said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...


Capitalists are "milking" their capital gains preference; where is the Jobs Boom?


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## danielpalos (Apr 3, 2017)

bear513 said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...


Means testing does that; unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States, is much simpler and more cost effective.


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## danielpalos (Apr 3, 2017)

bear513 said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...


Social service rolls also expanded.


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## danielpalos (Apr 3, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


You are confusing immigration with tourism with work authorization.  Not everyone wants to stay, just work, make some money and practice the, Art of the Deal, back home.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 3, 2017)

Richard-H said:


> The majority of people on government assistance are working poor. These assistance programs benefit their employers more than the recipients.
> 
> If you want to reduce welfare pay outs, insist that employers pay a living wage.



Insist it yourself.  Don't buy products  from companies that  pay lower wages.  Research every company you wish  to buy a product from; see how they treat their employees, see  what kind of wages  they  make, see what kind of benefits  they have.  If you don't  like what you see, buy your product from somebody else.  If nobody has  a similar product, then do without the product.


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## NYcarbineer (Apr 3, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Richard-H said:
> 
> 
> > The majority of people on government assistance are working poor. These assistance programs benefit their employers more than the recipients.
> ...



Why would a good conservative, who believes that the market should prevail over all,

base his buying habits on something like the compensation of labor?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 3, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Richard-H said:
> ...



I don't.  But if the  left complains all the time about how employees are  treated  at any given company,  don't deal with the company.  That's what  we  do when we  disagree with something.  

We brought Chick-Fil-A  record sales at one time.  Target stores are in awful shape and they are frantically searching for ways to rebuild  their  business.   Thanks to  much help from Obama, gun  manufacturers seen record firearm sales the last  eight years. 

The point  is people on the left never pray what they preach.  Bitch about wages and benefits that some people  get, and go shopping  at Walmart  the  next  day.  Complain about money going to the top, and then spend the rest of the week buying  new computers, cell phones, fast food, gasoline and cable television.  Complain that companies don't overpay their labor, but then take the lowest bids for their lawn care, their pool maintenance, their  auto repairs............ 

There are no  crystal balls in  this world.  Charity starts  at home.


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## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Republicans....Let em die



I made a simple request for you to answer this question.  Why do you refuse?  Why are you afraid?

For your convenience, I'll repeat it again.

Please show us that all the cities with the highest rates of poverty are in Republican run states.


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## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Those ranks are not too bad....Not every city can aspire to be Flower Mound Town Texas



You claimed they were at the very bottom of the list of poverty rates.  Did or did you not lie?


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## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> I've been on unemployment. You're required to look for work. You're required in most cases to take work.
> 
> I was on unemployment 25 years ago. I had to look for work and get signed statements of the places I'd been. I ended up getting a job that I worked for 22 years.



Earth to NYcarbineer.  Unemployment and welfare, food stamps and all the other handouts are two distinctly separate things.

Personally, I've been unemployed for maybe two weeks when I switched from one profession to another.  I've never been without at least one job since I was about ten or eleven.  The last 45 years being self-employed as a professional Realtor.  Most of that time I also managed rental property, both my own and for others, real estate instructor, owned real estate companies, conducted professional instructional seminars for our state and national associations and was a member of a number of professional speaker bureaus.  So no, I have very little sympathy for someone on unemployment.


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


again so what?

They are not your companies so what they pay is none of your business


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## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Without meddling into the governments of other countries, you wouldn't need to defend yourself at home.



Do you realize how dumb that is?

What was the result of petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama leaving a vacuum in Iraq?  Precisely what we, Conservatives, said would happen.  The vacuum we left was quickly filled by a rapidly growing presence of the barbaric ISIS terrorist organization.
,
In your rainbow, butterfly and unicorn world, no one would have to be the world's police force.  Unfortunately, we don't have that luxury in the REAL WORLD.  If not us, who?  We see how the Middle East has turned out from the totally failed policies of President Obama.

If there were no police force in your state, none, would you need to defend yourself at home?


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 4, 2017)

Richard-H said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



so if we just double everyone's salary prices won't go up and we'll have what double the growth?


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## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

Hutch Starskey said:


> *Why do democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare?*
> 
> Lifetime limit of welfare is 60 months.
> Retarded premise.



Varies somewhat by state but overall it is far less than the five-year limit and the lack of rigid enforcement by the past Obama administration combine to explain why we have a massive growth of those on disability.  NO time limit there!  Fraud rampant.k


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## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

Redfish said:


> someone making 20K is probably not paying any federal income taxes and is in compliance with the tax code. Do you want them to pay?



Yes!


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## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> A terrorist attack. An "invasion" is when troops from a foreign country land on US soil, and proceed to "invade" the country. The last time it happened, was the War of 1812, when British soldiers burned down the White House.
> 
> Similarly, Pearl Harbour, while a terrible event in US history with great loss of life, was also NOT an invasion. No Japanese troops landed on US soil. Pearl Harbour was an "attack", not an invasion.
> 
> It doesn't change the horror of the events or the loss of life and devastation caused in these attacks, but they were not invasions.



What do you call all the fatal Islamic Terrorist attacks in our country?  Did you forget the bombing of the World Trade Center?  In 1993?   When an Islamic Terrorist bomb was placed in the basement of one tower with the expectation it would cause that tower to collapse into the other?


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## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

Hutch Starskey said:


> No.
> Do you understand what lifetime limit means? The sixty-month limit was passed in 1996 with the Democrat sponsored welfare reform.



I take it that you are not aware that when petulant former President Obama signed his failed stimulus bill, it negated the 1996 Welfare Reform Act as well as vouchers for the children of low-income households to attend their choice of schools.


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## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> 40% of Medicare is paid out of the genera fund above and beyond the payroll tax receipts.
> 
> For God's sake quit making shit up.



THANK YOU for helping me confirm that it is going BROKE, RAPIDLY!


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## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> 40% of Medicare is paid out of the genera fund above and beyond the payroll tax receipts.
> 
> For God's sake quit making shit up.



I gave you the facts, I'm sorry if that upsets you.

Medicare is like every other Progressive program just like Obamacare.  GROSSLY underestimated and ultimately unaffordable.

For example:
*Health Care Reform Cost Estimates: What is the Track Record?*
Conn Carroll / August 04, 2009

[...]

Medicare (entire program). In 1967, the House Ways and Means Committee predicted that the new Medicare program, launched the previous year, would cost about $12 billion in 1990. Actual Medicare spending in 1990 was $110 billion—off by nearly a factor of 10.

Medicaid DSH program. In 1987, Congress estimated that Medicaid’s disproportionate share hospital (DSH) payments—which states use to provide relief to hospitals that serve especially large numbers of Medicaid and uninsured patients—would cost less than $1 billion in 1992. The actual cost that year was a staggering $17 billion. Among other things, federal lawmakers had failed to detect loopholes in the legislation that enabled states to draw significantly more money from the federal treasury than they would otherwise have been entitled to claim under the program’s traditional 50-50 funding scheme.

Medicare home care benefit. When Congress debated changes to Medicare’s home care benefit in 1988, the projected 1993 cost of the benefit was $4 billion. The actual 1993 cost was more than twice that amount, $10 billion.

Medicare catastrophic coverage benefit. In 1988, Congress added a catastrophic coverage benefit to Medicare, to take effect in 1990. In July 1989, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) doubled its cost estimate for the program, for the four-year period 1990-1993, from $5.7 billion to $11.8 billion. CBO explained that it had received newer data showing it had significantly under-estimated prescription drug cost growth, and it warned Congress that even this revised estimate might be too low. This was a principal reason Congress repealed the program before it could take effect.

[...]

Read more:    Health Care Reform Cost Estimates: What is the Track Record?


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## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Sure, but if you ever want real strong economic growth again we need a strong middle class.



And we see how well the plan of petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama worked.


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## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> The largest corporations pay 0 in taxes.



Really?  Did you lie so much as a child?

*Companies Paying the Most (and Least) Taxes*
24/7 Wall St.January 8, 2014

*1.    Exxon Mobil*
*> Income tax expense:* $31.0 billion
*> Earnings before taxes:* $78.7 billion (the most)
*> Revenue:* $428.4 billion (2nd most)
*> 1-yr. share price change:* +14.5%
*> Industry:* Oil and gas

*2.    2. Chevron*
*> Income tax expense:* $20.0 billion
*> Earnings before taxes:* $46.3 billion (3rd most)
*> Revenue:* $222.6 billion (3rd most)
*> 1-yr. share price change:* 13.8%
*> Industry:* Oil and gas

*3.    3. Apple*
*> Income tax expense:* $13.1 billion
*> Earnings before taxes:* $50.2 billion (2nd most)
*> Revenue:* $170.9 billion (4th most)
*> 1-yr. share price change:* +3.7%
*> Industry:* Computer hardware

*4.    4. Wells Fargo*
*> Income tax expense:* $9.1 billion
*> Earnings before taxes:* $28.5 billion (5th most)
*> Revenue:* $79.5 billion (28th most)
*> 1-yr. share price change:* +31.3%
*> Industry:* Banking

*5.    5. Walmart*
*> Income tax expense:* $8.0 billion
*> Earnings before taxes:* $25.7 billion (7th most)
*> Revenue:* $469.2 billion (the most)
*> 1-yr. share price change:* +14.9%
*> Industry:* Retail

Companies Paying the Most (and Least) Taxes


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## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> How US Tax Policy Encourages Outrageous CEO Compensation



Why does your article not mention the cause of those "Outrageous CEO Compensations" being former President Bill Clinton?

Why?


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 4, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Sure, but if you ever want real strong economic growth again we need a strong middle class.
> ...


people ignore the fact that the mean income and upper limits of the middle quintile income boundary of the 3rd quintile of earners (the middle class) have both steadily risen

somehow they think that as the middle 20% of earners grows with the population and their income grows that it is a shrinking of the middle class


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## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

Richard-H said:


> The fact is that as long as employers do not pay enough for these things, we the tax payers have to pay for them.



You just can't understand it, or is it that you refuse to admit you understand it because that makes you feel better about yourself.
In the vast majority of cases, employees are paid their exact worth.  If someone cannot get along on their worth, how is it NOT THEIR responsibility to make themselves more valuable to the employer?

Why is it my responsibility, if I'm the employer, to pay them more because the employee WANTS more?

What is the typical household income where at least one worker receives the minimum wage?


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## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

Richard-H said:


> Minimum wage should pay enough for the employee to pay for the basics plus enough to support 2 children.



You're a hoot!


----------



## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Employers will have to increase wages of American workers.



So then there will be no one who is poor?  Wow, what a great idea!  How exactly does that work?


----------



## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

Richard-H said:


> Actually forcing wages up does not destroy the economy. It causing economic growth.



By doing so, FDR was able to extend the Great Depression by SEVEN YEARS.  How is that a good thing for America?


----------



## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> If minimum wage should be enough to support a house, two children, a dog, a nice car and whatever you dream up, do you realize what kind of domino effect that would have on the economy?



Reminds me of basic training at Fort Benning Georgia.  Our pay was...$93,50 per month.  One of the new recruits, like me, was grousing that it wasn't enough for him to support his wife.  Sgt. Taim "gently" explained to him that if Uncle Sam wanted him to have a G.D. wife, he'd have given him one.

Aside from the additional 20 pushups we all got, I did learn something.  If I wanted something, it was up to me to EARN it.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 4, 2017)

Markle said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Republicans....Let em die
> ...


Who said all

Show where cities have control over the decisions of manufacturers ?


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 4, 2017)

Markle said:


> Richard-H said:
> 
> 
> > Actually forcing wages up does not destroy the economy. It causing economic growth.
> ...


FDR understood the depression was not about the banks but about people suffering.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > The largest corporations pay 0 in taxes.
> ...




20% of big companies pay zero corporate taxes


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Lots of cheap immigrant labor in the food business.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

How Immigration Reform Could Impact the Agriculture Industry


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...




he has it backwards as usual.  with fewer exports the supply of food would increase, and prices would fall. 

supply and demand laws work.   Except where food is concerned since the government has decided to pay farmers to NOT grow crops.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




why not require welfare recipients to pick our crops in exchange for their welfare payments?


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...




think this is a funny idea?   it works in Japan and many other places.   What exactly do you find funny about work for welfare?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Faced with labor shortages, the U.S. food system would experience supply constraints that could result in higher prices and force the country to look beyond its own borders for more of its food supply. "We can import labor, or we can import our food," said Rodger.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Yes Japan and their stagnant economy, let's follow them.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



How many do you think live near a farm? 

You want the government involved in farming?


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...




if the illegal labor was not available, who do you think the farmers would hire to pick their crops?   How about welfare recipients or prison inmates?  OR, how about the unemployed?   whats wrong with doing some work to receive your UE check?


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...




that has nothing to do with having welfare recipients clean the streets.  nice try, but you fail.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




first sentence makes no sense

second sentence---it already is.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



I'm sure that would be highly efficient labor.  You are too funny.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




  more efficient that giving them money for sitting on their ass.   "if you don't pick the oranges correctly, you don't get your UE check"   see how that works?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Yes I see how that would be a disaster.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...




ok, explain how Japan's stagnant economy is the result of having those on welfare clean the streets.   Can't wait for this answer.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




how exactly?   because the poor welfare guys might get their feeeeeeeeeeeeeeelings hurt?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Well none of them know anything about farming.  How will they get to the farm?  Will the government buy the farms, or do the rich farmers just get free labor?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I'm saying we should follow a stagnant economy.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




_How can profitable companies end up with a $0 corporate income tax bill? There could be a few reasons, according to the GAO. _

_ Among them, they may get a lot of tax deductions for losses they had in previous years but carried forward. They also may be able to write off more for depreciating assets than they have to claim on their financial statements. Or, if they made profits offshore and haven't brought them back to the United States, they would not owe U.S. tax on them until they do._

Is it surprising that companies had huge losses carried forward from 2008 and 2009?
Only to liberal morons.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Time to automate that low-skilled work.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...



No kidding they play accounting games and pay no taxes.  Not to mention huge CEO pay deductions.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




1. picking crops is not a highly skilled activity
2. Buses, paid for by the farmer
3. The farmer pays the state, the state pays the workers.   the taxpayers no longer have to fund UE payments.   Everyone wins
4. the workers have the option of working directly for the farmer at a higher hourly wage.

These "problems" are easy to fix if we engage our brains and work together.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Yes increase unemployment.  That's great for an economy.


----------



## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> FDR understood the depression was not about the banks but about people suffering.



So in your opinion, making them suffer for an additional SEVEN YEARS was a good thing.  How?

How long did the did the depression of 1920 last?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Yes get rid of good cheap labor and get the government more involved.  You are a real conservative.

Throw a bunch of city people in the fields.  Would be great for food prices.  Haha. This is the stupid idea of the day.  Bravo!


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




who wrote these deductions into the tax code?  here's your answer:  which party has controlled congress for most of the last 80 years?

CEO pay is not deductible.   and CEOs pay income taxes on their pay, bonuses, stock grants, cars, etc.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



*No kidding they play accounting games*

Losing money during a recession.....very sneaky!
DERP.
*
Not to mention huge CEO pay deductions*

Companies can deduct employee salary expense? You must be joking!
Next you'll be telling me they can deduct COGS.  Outrageous loopholes, eh?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Well of course the illegal aliens are going to be unemployed when we deport them.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...




Fact Sheet: Tax Subsidies for CEO Pay - Americans For Tax Fairness


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




your "good cheap labor"  is in our country illegally, most are paid in cash and no taxes are collected.   a lot of that money is wired to mexico or central America and is not even spent in this country.   BUT, we give them free medical care, schooling for their kids, and social security payments.   

This is insanity, and you left wing fools can't even see it.


----------



## BrokeLoser (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



The government is already heavily involved in farming via subsidies. 
Farms tend to be grouped together in rural areas...prisons tend to be located in rural areas.
Using welfare recipients and prisoners to work agriculture and various other industries could be a major WIN in all ways....AND we just may have  a President in office with balls big enough to pull shit like this off.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



It happens every year.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




a web site that distributes left wing talking points----------------you just lost what little credibility you ever had.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



They are willing and good workers.  You'd replace them with a shit show, that doesn't work.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Sure deny facts because they prove you wrong.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




don't like the tax code?   tell your democrat congress person,  they wrote most of it.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Writing off employee compensation is not a tax subsidy..


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




Do you understand the meaning of the word "illegal" ?   I have absolutely no issue with LEGAL immigrants picking our crops.   Do you?


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...




libs don't understand what "subsidy" means.    Paying a farmer not to grow corn is a subsidy.   complying with the tax code is not a subsidy.


----------



## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> No kidding they play accounting games and pay no taxes.



What is an accounting game?  I ask because I'd like to pay no taxes too.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



And we are very good at agriculture.  We even export it.  You guys want to ruin that.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > No kidding they play accounting games and pay no taxes.
> ...



I've posted several, try to keep up.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Yes, companies carry forward losses and deduct normal business expenses every year.

Oh, you mean they pay zero taxes every year. Hilarious!!!

Just for fun, give me a list of a dozen companies that were profitable but paid no taxes for the past 8 years.

Should be easy, right? LOL!


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




how does enforcing our immigration laws equal ruining agriculture?   I just want people to enter our country legally and comply with our immigration laws.   What do you find objectionable about that?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



I'm just telling you the results of what you want.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




so complying with the tax code legally is an accounting game?   Are they doing anything illegal?  

your problem is that you don't like some of the provisions of the tax code-------------written mostly by democrats to protect their cronies.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




no you are not, you are making shit up in a failed attempt to justify allowing illegal entry to our country.


----------



## BrokeLoser (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Bud, this is simple...but you do have to think beyond trying to keep it legal for your familia to keep rolling in to be able to wrap your head around it. Come on man, how big can your familia possibly be...aren't they all here yet?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Fact Sheet: Corporate Tax Rates - Americans For Tax Fairness


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Yes economics are made up.  A true conservative.

How Immigration Reform Could Impact the Agriculture Industry


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Thanks, I was looking for proof that corporations pay taxes.


----------



## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> I've posted several, try to keep up.



Like I thought, you've got NOTHING!


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 4, 2017)

Markle said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > 40% of Medicare is paid out of the genera fund above and beyond the payroll tax receipts.
> ...




You lie.  You claimed Medicare was not an entitlement program because you thought you were refuting my post that showed that over 90% of entitlements go to the elderly, disabled, and working poor.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 4, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > The largest corporations pay 0 in taxes.
> ...



So you're saying that the conservatives who claim corporations pay NO taxes because they just pass the cost to the customers are full of shit?


----------



## Skull Pilot (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


funny how the article doesn't differentiate between C corps and S corps

No S corp pays any corporate taxes because all the profit and or loss is reported on the individual shareholder's personal taxes


----------



## Skull Pilot (Apr 4, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


payroll is an expense


----------



## BrokeLoser (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Framed bullshit for the most part. 
Liberals like to whine about this as it opens the door for them to discuss not so clever ways to funnel more freebies to our bottom feeders. 
S Corporations and LLC's "pass through" income to shareholders, the corp itself pays no tax.
Many C Corps use various legal methods to appear broke at years end to avoid high tax rates. Times have changed, tax code has changed and so has the methodologies used to avoid heavy taxation. Simple shit here.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




which is better.  paying a little more for food, or opening our borders to everyone?   

you just don't get it.   No one is objecting to having people come to our country legally to harvest our crops.   The only objection is to illegal entry.  Why is that so hard for you to grasp?   Why do you think illegal entry is OK?


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




yes, it is. and taxes are collected on payroll.   taxes paid by employees, including CEOs.   Would you have that money taxed twice?


----------



## Skull Pilot (Apr 4, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



payroll is a deductible expense you said it wasn't


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

BrokeLoser said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...




I think everyone agrees that the tax code is screwed up.   Liberals just refuse to acknowledge that their democrat heroes in congress wrote most of it----to protect themselves and those who fund their campaigns.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...




I said some forms of CEO pay are not deductible, and I think I am correct.   Can you prove that the tax code allows deducting all forms of CEO pay and benefits?


----------



## Skull Pilot (Apr 4, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


and I quote you

CEO pay is not deductible.

read back in the quote tree


----------



## Redfish (Apr 4, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...




I misspoke.   mea culpa.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 4, 2017)

Markle said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Republicans....Let em die
> ...


The top three spots for the poorest are in Texas, California starts at number 4 on the list. 

Cities With the Highest Poverty Rates


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



It's proof many pay very little if any.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Our borders have not been a problem for me.  I do eat daily however.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

Richard-H said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


holy fk, what the fk was that post supposed to mean?  LOL that was a fking circle jerk and a half of nonsense meant to mean nothing.  

Who is everyone in your post?

You know we have immigration laws that you all ignore right?  it's called sanctuary cities?

It's not what I want, so you are not getting anything to anyone with your sanctuary city idea.  It violates the law, PeRIOD!!


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



That's what happens every single time democrats try to close one loop hole 50 more spring up.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

bear513 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



I'm certain both parties are responsible.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...





Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


you never answered why you don't want welfare recipients to work?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


how would that happen?  just because a different picker shows up?  explain Gene.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...



I want them working on getting a good job.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



You don't understand the difference between good willing workers and unwilling workers who have no clue what they are doing?  Seriously?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


what is that?  you get to qualify the job as good and not them?  I want welfare recipients working Period.  I want them sweating like my dumb ass.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


what the fk does that mean.  more made up mumbo jumbo so you feel good abut yourself?  hahahhahahahaaha

Oh, and why do you get to slander the welfare like they are stupid people?  who the fk gave you that authority?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



And when they find a good job they will.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

so brainless, you don't want the welfare recipients working why?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



It means you have no common sense and don't understand the importance of good labor.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


what's a good job?  you didn't define that.  I'd say anything that makes you money and keeps you working a good job.  So why don't you want welfare recipients working?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

jc456 said:


> so brainless, you don't want the welfare recipients working why?



Like I said, I want them working to find a good job.  You don't seem very bright.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


dude, were you looking in a mirror when you wrote that?  LOL.  you got squat juice of knowledge.  I've been watching your posts in here and dude you're on life support.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > so brainless, you don't want the welfare recipients working why?
> ...


what does that mean?  define that.  again, why don't you want welfare recipients working?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



A good private job they can live off.  Not some government slave labor job.  You like big government that much eh?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



You can't even comprehend simple concepts.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


well how do they get there if all they do is sit at home?  so again, why don't you want welfare recipients working?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


you have no concepts.  you are for illegal aliens and stay at home welfare payments.  you are negative in your concepts.


----------



## Richard-H (Apr 4, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > Richard-H said:
> ...



Amazing how the greatest increase in worker's wages occurred between 1950 & 1980 along with the highest taxes on the wealthy, yet those were the years of the best economic growth in American history.

Yet, wingnuts still insist that high taxes on the wealthy combined and/or increased wages cause economic downturns.

Reality never phases them!


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

Richard-H said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


dude are you on steriods?  who the fk are you referring to?  the progressive tax code has always been in play?  you're fking nuts.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



So you want to create a big government worker program?  That is funny.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



You want to grow government while killing our agricultural industry.  Great plan.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


already have it.  I wish to supplement the payment into work to save the cost on food.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


how would that work?  You still haven't answered what would be killed.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



So you want them permanently on welfare.   Seems the OP is wrong about who wants them permanently on welfare.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



It seems you are far too simple to be on a message forum.  Go watch some cartoons kid. It was already explained, you are just too slow.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


why would that happen?  They'd eventually ween off the government over to the farmers paid by the product sales and walla, no more welfare.  It's fking amazing thing progress eh?

fk, then they might even get some actual incentives and move up ladders, to other careers and make more money and end  the fking cycle.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


why cause you can't answer a question?  seems your head is in the cartoons sweety!


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



You live in fantasy land.  When does a government program ever get smaller?  

I'm not going to put you on ignore, but will only respond if you come close to making sense.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


dude, I just explained it to you.  What didn't you understand?

what one does when one doesn't have an argument that can float.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


oh and I forgot, no more illegals taking american jobs.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

it is funny how easy this all is. if we could only get the left to leave, we'd be in fking heaven.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



You want to create big government worker programs.  

You think good willing workers can be replaced by unwilling workers who know nothing about farming without hurting the agricultural industry.

You would make a great communist.


----------



## jillian (Apr 4, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?



unlike bigoted white trash trumpsters, we don't.

now stop making things up,nutbar


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


still nothing eh?  figures.  again when you got nothing.  my plan stands and it removes illegals, and ends welfare of the state.  and here you are talking about russia.  wow.


----------



## jillian (Apr 4, 2017)

jc456 said:


> it is funny how easy this all is. if we could only get the left to leave, we'd be in fking heaven.



you first, pondscum


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

jillian said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?
> ...


dude, please stop....... I'm fking going to split a gut, see.....


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

jillian said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > it is funny how easy this all is. if we could only get the left to leave, we'd be in fking heaven.
> ...


you all wish to go to canada, want someone elses programs and policies.  It's quite obvious you hate my fking country.   just leave and make us all happy.

Fk, you even want the illegals to live with you. my country has borders.


----------



## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

b"NYcarbineer said:


> So you're saying that the conservatives who claim corporations pay NO taxes because they just pass the cost to the customers are full of shit?



Who do you think pays those billions?  Your unicorn?  Who else pays those taxes.  How many sides does your mouth have?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

So on a thread designed to court the black vote, conservatives think government slave labor is the answer.  That should get a lot of votes.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> So on a thread designed to court the black vote, conservatives think government slave labor is the answer.  That should get a lot of votes.


ahhh see, you don't want them working for their welfare.  It's all you fking had to say sweetie.  How about you?  keeping the blacks locked up in prison camps is your solution eh?


----------



## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> The top three spots for the poorest are in Texas, California starts at number 4 on the list.



Thank you for proving me RIGHT AGAIN!  You don't check anything first, do you?  Are you learning a lesson?  I usually charge quite a lot for tutoring.  

Here was my question.  Please show us that all the cities with the highest rates of poverty are in Republican run states.


----------



## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> A good private job they can live off.



Who is responsible for being qualified for such a job?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > A good private job they can live off.
> ...



The person applying obviously.


----------



## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> The person applying obviously.



And if they are not, they don't merit minimum wage, do they?
,


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## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > The person applying obviously.
> ...



Min wage?  Pretty much anyone is qualified for that tiny amount.


----------



## Markle (Apr 4, 2017)




----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



It proved no such thing.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 4, 2017)

Richard-H said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...



*Amazing how the greatest increase in worker's wages occurred between 1950 & 1980 along with the highest taxes on the wealthy*

Explain why you feel those 2 facts are related.
Did the increase in wages cause the high taxes on the rich?
Did the high taxes cause the increase in wages?

Or did they just happen to occur at the same time?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


*
You want to create big government worker programs.* 

The big welfare programs are already there. Making them work doesn't make the program/problem bigger.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



Yes it does obviously.  Who is going to tell people to go where and what to do?  Where will the buses come from?  That will require more government.  And how will people find real jobs if they are working in your slave labor scheme?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




_Corporate share of federal tax revenue has dropped by __two-thirds in 60 years__ — from 32% in 1952 to 10% in 2013._
_General Electric, Boeing, Verizon and 23 other profitable Fortune 500 firms __paid no federal income taxes__ from 2008 to 2012._
_288 big and profitable Fortune 500 corporations paid an average effective federal tax rate of just __19.4% from 2008 to 2012._
_Profitable corporations paid U.S. income taxes amounting to just __12.6% of worldwide income__ in 2010._
_U.S. corporations dodge $90 billion a year in income taxes__ by shifting profits to subsidiaries — often no more than post office boxes — in tax havens._
_U.S. corporations officially hold __$2.1 trillion in profits offshore__ — much of it in tax havens — that have not yet been taxed here_
Nope, no proof of your claim there.

Try again?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...




_General Electric, Boeing, Verizon and 23 other profitable Fortune 500 firms __paid no federal income taxes__ from 2008 to 2012._


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


*
Yes it does obviously. Who is going to tell people to go where and what to do?*

It's easy. Next month, a note is added to the envelope your check came in.
It says, "Your June payment will require XX hours of work at the farm at XYZ.
The bus to that farm will be at ABC at precisely 8 AM on June 5th 2017.
Failure to work the required hours will reduce your check proportionately.

*And how will people find real jobs*

The same places they find real jobs now.
The savings realized by the failure to work the required hours, by payments received by the farms and by former recipients finding other jobs will be more than enough to cover the cost of bus transportation.

*if they are working in your slave labor scheme?*

These "slaves" are free to quit and forfeit their welfare checks at any time.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



You said, *"It's proof many pay very little if any"
*
26 companies that lost hundreds of billions during the recession in 2008 and 2009 still hadn't earned
back their losses by 2012. Companies only pay taxes if they are profitable after covering previous losses as well as current expenses.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



You need people to schedule how many people are needed where.  You need places that have jobs available.  That doesn't just magically appear on an envelope.  The buses don't magically appear when needed either.  You really are as dumb as the other clown.  Clearly repubs want to keep people in poverty.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...





_General Electric, Boeing, Verizon and 23 other profitable Fortune 500 firms __paid no federal income taxes__ from 2008 to 2012._


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


wow, you've never heard of management and supervisors?  wow!  How about public buses?  We have them in chicago.  shit, we even have Trains.  how the fk do people know to take them?

I see you are still working from the premise that those on welfare are as dumb as a box of rocks.  you're such a nice sweetie.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Min wage?  Pretty much anyone is qualified for that tiny amount.


 if so you would not need minimum wage laws. minimum wage laws are full employment for robots.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



You said, *"It's proof many pay very little if any"*

26 companies that lost hundreds of billions during the recession in 2008 and 2009 still hadn't earned
back their losses by 2012. Companies only pay taxes if they are profitable after covering previous losses as well as current expenses.

DERP!


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



More government.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...




_General Electric, Boeing, Verizon and 23 other profitable Fortune 500 firms __paid no federal income taxes__ from 2008 to 2012._


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


how is it more, it exists already?  why not use it?  again, you ain't too bright.  got that box of rocks?


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> _General Electric, Boeing, Verizon and 23 other profitable Fortune 500 firms __paid no federal income taxes__ from 2008 to 2012._



so??
1) if you don't earn income why should you pay taxes???
2) why do you care about increasing corporate costs?? Do you like it when corporate  products cost more ???? Do you like to pay more for your cell phone and airplane tickets? Brain-2 does not know he pays the corporate tax.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



*"It's proof many pay very little if any"*

26/500 is many? DERP!


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



You think there are people just sitting around who can do all that extra work?  Too funny.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...




_General Electric, Boeing, Verizon and 23 other profitable Fortune 500 firms __paid no federal income taxes__ from 2008 to 2012._


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


the brainless hasn't absorbed that fact yet.  holding onto that box of rocks too long.  doesn't know that a loss isn't making money.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


what extra work are you referring to?  the buses and trains exists.  what don't you understand box-o-rocks?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

jc456 said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




_General Electric, Boeing, Verizon and 23 other profitable Fortune 500 firms __paid no federal income taxes__ from 2008 to 2012._


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



I don't know a lot of buses that go to farms.  And who schedules all these jobs?  People who are just sitting around now?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Lets just have the government take over everything and hand out jobs.  You guys are too funny.  You are great communists.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


so?? if you don't earn income why should you pay taxes??

are you anxious for your cell phone and plane tickets to cost more?? Is that why you want them to pay more taxes??


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...




Good and what is the problem?  Their employees do.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



*"It's proof **many **pay very little if any"
*
No. It's proof that a few companies that had huge losses in 2008 and 2009 paid no taxes for a few years.

DERP!


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...




_General Electric, Boeing, Verizon and 23 other profitable Fortune 500 firms __paid no federal income taxes__ from 2008 to 2012._


----------



## Dragonlady (Apr 4, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



This has been an abject failure every time it's been tried. First off, how do you justify paying lower wages to the welfare recipients than they would earn with minimum wages?  You can't so right away, there is the human rights problem of slave labour.

There has to be an entire infrastructure set up to find the jobs, to match the welfare recipients to the jobs, to arrange placements with the employers, and to arrange the bus transportation.  There has to be due consideration as to whether the individuals can physically perform the work required.  Not everyone is physically able to do hard manual labour.  Welfare recipients could sue for discrimination if they are assigned work they are physically unsuited to perform.

There also has to be someone at the employers' end who tracks which workers show up and what hours they work, and supervise them to ensure they are working.  As for the employers, they aren't interesting in being sent a bunch of city people who have no idea of how to pick crops, or who do it too slowly.  The profit margins these farmers work under are so small that they can ill afford a bunch of to hire a bunch of lazy, fat city people who have no idea of what they're doing.

The vast majority of people receiving Section 8 housing, food stamps, MedicAid, or other forms of federal assistance, have full time jobs, or more than one part time job, for which they are paid very low wages.  These people wouldn't be available for your slave pool.

As someone who worked in the tobacco fields in the summer when I was young, I am well aware that farm labour really isn't suitable for people who aren't young, strong and very healthy. 

This whole program was tried where I lived a few years ago - "WorkFare".  Everyone said it was high time.  Members of our church thought this would be a good way to get some needed work done on our Church building, while teaching welfare bums some needed lessons.  What we discovered was that we had to hire someone to supervise the workers.  This person had to be on site the whole time.  By the time we paid for our "workers" and the supervisor, it would be cheaper for us to hire small local firms to do the work, and we'd get a higher quality of work if we did.

The government announced this program with great fanfare, but then quietly cancelled it a year later.  There were few takers for the service.  Many organizations considered it "slavery" and refused to use it.  Others, like our church, discovered that the required supervision made the program too expensive to use, and that the quality of the work was highly suspect.

Most communities have difficulty coming up with sufficient work for those sentenced to "community service", much less for those receiving welfare.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 4, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> . First off, how do you justify paying lower wages to the welfare recipients than they would earn with minimum wages? .


what justification is needed for the gift of a welfare bailout?? What justification is there for not making them pay the money back just like banks had to pay bailout loans back.  When Clinton/Newt ended welfare as we know it by making it workfare fully half decided they no longer needed welfare. No work no dole is a great way to prevent welfare from crippling people. How is that for justification?????????


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



DERP!


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 4, 2017)

California agrees to always take, at least second place to Any red State, simply for the sake of State pride and State morals.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 4, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


*
First off, how do you justify paying lower wages to the welfare recipients than they would earn with minimum wages?*

It's easy, you say "If you don't work the required numbers of hours, you get no benefits"

*You can't so right away, there is the human rights problem of slave labour.*

Only if you feel someone who is free to quit at any time, is a slave.
The rest of us will laugh at your error.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 4, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Most communities have difficulty coming up with sufficient work for those sentenced to "community service", much less for those receiving welfare.



so the only option is to cripple them forever with welfare so they'll always vote for more welfare??


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Isn't it amazing anyone would think it was a good idea?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



The abuse isn't obvious to you?

So do the places they work pay anything?  Or do they get free labor?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 4, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...



*The abuse isn't obvious to you?*

A work requirement is abuse? Tell me more.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Ah, you are too stupid. 

Again, do the places they work pay anything?  If so how much?


----------



## Dragonlady (Apr 4, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > . First off, how do you justify paying lower wages to the welfare recipients than they would earn with minimum wages? .
> ...



How Christian of you.  Let them steal for a living, I guess.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 4, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...


stealing? I would not object to forcing them to work in return for their welfare!

if the work was harder  than regular work it would encourage them to become contributing members of society.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 4, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...



Sure beats getting a job, doesn't it???


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 4, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...



Where would you have them work?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 5, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Employment is at-will.  EDD should be required to show for-cause employment to deny or disparage unemployment compensation.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 5, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Most communities have difficulty coming up with sufficient work for those sentenced to "community service", much less for those receiving welfare.
> ...


Work or die, is the "solution" of the right wing.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 5, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Employment is at-will not for -cause.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 5, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


In our at-will employment States?  Why not make the rich, "work hard" for their corporate welfare.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 5, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


the left loves to, "hear the right wing whine about taxes", like untermenchen, due to our wars on crime, drugs, and terror.


----------



## Dragonlady (Apr 5, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> stealing? I would not object to forcing them to work in return for their welfare!
> 
> if the work was harder  than regular work it would encourage them to become contributing members of society.



God forbid that you provide people with a good education or job opportunities, no.  Give them a 3rd rate education in a crumbling school and when they finish school, make sure that their job opportunities are limited, and when they give up and take handouts, slap them hard for being lazy, and taking handouts.

Then you want to make them slave for the meager handout you give them, and humiliate them and take that away if they can't or won't do it.  Sounds like the beginnings of a great program.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 5, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...



*Employment is at-will.*

Unemployment benefits are for those laid off.
Not for quitters or never workers.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 5, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



DERP!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 5, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > stealing? I would not object to forcing them to work in return for their welfare!
> ...



*God forbid that you provide people with a good education or job opportunities, no. Give them a 3rd rate education in a crumbling school and when they finish school, make sure that their job opportunities are limited,*

I agree, Dems suck.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 5, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > stealing? I would not object to forcing them to work in return for their welfare!
> ...



Or you can do what millions of others have done which is get a job, try to learn something that makes your labor more valuable, and keep advancing in the company.  Or you can take out a loan, attend a trade school, and start a new career that way.  

You'd be surprised how far you can go using your own money instead of other people's.  


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


----------



## jc456 (Apr 5, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...


how about infrastructure jobs, cleanup streets.  shit there are many needs that are ignored due to no money.  again, you seem to object to have someone work for their money.  I work for mine.  Should I tell my boss I'm a slave?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 5, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...


that's what I do?  why are they different?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 5, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



You have failed to respond to who pays the workers.  You send them to random businesses, do they pay for the labor?  How much?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 5, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...


right, cause the left never pays any.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 5, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


dudette, are you really this naive or are you just playing dumb?

So the argument is about working welfare.  WELFARE.  what part of that word confuses you?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 5, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > stealing? I would not object to forcing them to work in return for their welfare!
> ...


so why are you against school vouchers?  you all talk in riddles so much you make very little if any common sense.  you talk out of both sides of your mouth.  ah, that's right, you're a fking demoloser.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 5, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



You are welcome to answer the question.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 5, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I did.
you just can't make this shit up.  hahahaahahahahaha....


----------



## Redfish (Apr 5, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




already explained it to you.   The workers get exactly what they would get from UE.  The farmer pays the state that same amount.   So its a net zero for the taxpayers.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 5, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



So who pays the workers and how much?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 5, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


welfare.  you didn't see that all caps word I put in the last response?  here,  can you fking even read?

WELFARE!!!!!


----------



## Redfish (Apr 5, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




see post #839


----------



## jc456 (Apr 5, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
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> > Toddsterpatriot said:
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BTW, it isn't UE it is WELFARE.  UE is for people who actually had a job and lost it.  They lose that and move to official Welfare if they feel they don't want to work anymore.


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## Brain357 (Apr 5, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
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Isn't unemployment based on what you made while working?  So you force the farmer to greatly over pay for some workers?  Others will make less than min wage?  Meanwhile they are paying for workers that aren't farmers and don't want to be there?  So not very productive.


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## Dragonlady (Apr 5, 2017)

Redfish said:


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It is NOT a net zero for the taxpayers.  They have to pay for the buses and the bus drivers.  They have to pay someone to recruit employers, and they have to pay someone to supervise the workers.  They have to have an enforcement procedure for those who don't show up.  All of this costs money.

It is also illegal to pay people less than the minimum wage for the job being done.  Unless UE pay that minimum wage, employers are getting slave labour, and it may surprise you to learn, that many people with morals and principles will NOT exploit the poor in this way.

The workfare program here failed because the government could not find enough employers to make the program viable, in part because it was EXPENSIVE to use these people as workers, because of the reporting and supervision requirements, and the quality of work was really low.


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## Brain357 (Apr 5, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Redfish said:
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Unemployment is a welfare program.  Be more specific.


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## jc456 (Apr 5, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Redfish said:
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## jc456 (Apr 5, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
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no it isn't.  It is an entitlement program.  Fking welfare is welfare. UE is for individuals between jobs.  it actually stops.  I bet you didn't know that since you so stupidly responded with that last message.


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## jc456 (Apr 5, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
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girlie, you're never gonna understand.  I have a brick ten feet from me and it knows more than you.


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## Richard-H (Apr 5, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Richard-H said:
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> > rightwinger said:
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No and No. High taxes were cause by government tax policies. High wages were caused by minimum wage laws. successful unions and government support of unions. What was common between them was liberal government policies.

The result was the best economic growth ever.


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## Brain357 (Apr 5, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
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Again what welfare program?  You have a lot of trouble being specific.


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## jc456 (Apr 5, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
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> > Brain357 said:
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Welfare Programs Overview

"Welfare programs are state regulated programs for those who live under the minimum accepted level means as determined by each state government. Welfare benefits can fall under multiple different program umbrellas, all of which require certain elements of eligibility to acquire and maintain payments. These programs are cash assistance (TANF), the child support program, child care, energy or utility assistance, food assistance, medical assistance, and vocational rehabilitation services."


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## Redfish (Apr 5, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


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try to pay attention, moron.   The buses are paid for by the farmers.  The state provides them and the farmers reimburse the state.   supervision is provided by the farmers, just like with any other employees.   If a UE recipient doesn't show up, he doesn't get paid for that week.   No extra employees needed to enforce that.

The UE rate is what it is.   It is set by the state.   Minimum wage laws do not apply to UE payments.,


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## Brain357 (Apr 5, 2017)

jc456 said:


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Aren't these people mostly employed, but low income or disabled/elderly?


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## jc456 (Apr 5, 2017)

Richard-H said:


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## jc456 (Apr 5, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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nope.  Money assistance is money assistance by anyone who qualifies.


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## Brain357 (Apr 5, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Dragonlady said:
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So the farmers will be paying for buses and supervision, plus often high unemployment benefits while receiving poor quality labor from people who don't want to be there.  Sounds like a loser for all.  Bye agriculture.


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## Brain357 (Apr 5, 2017)

jc456 said:


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If they aren't you must have a link to support that.


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## Redfish (Apr 5, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
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so in your small mind its better for the taxpayers to pay someone to sit on his ass and do nothing?   Picking crops is not a high skill job.   I bet even you could do it.


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## Brain357 (Apr 5, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
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You really are not bright.  It would kill agriculture.  Farmers would be greatly overpaying for bad labor.


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## Redfish (Apr 5, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
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LOL, coming from one of the dumbest posters on USMB.   I am quite sure that my IQ exceeds yours by many points.  

you don't even try to understand the concept of having UE recipients work for their money.   But you are all for paying them to sit on their ass while people in our country illegally get paid to pick our crops.  

the liberal mind is really a strange thing.   Must be that defective liberal gene.


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## Brain357 (Apr 5, 2017)

Redfish said:


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Sorry, it is way better to pay them and let them look for a new job.

You want to create a huge new government program which forces farmers to over pay for bad labor.  You would kill agriculture just so you can feel like you are punishing the poor.  The most punished would be farmers.  

And you would not remove anyone from poverty.  A complete losing idea. Bravo!


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## Dragonlady (Apr 5, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Dragonlady said:
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Minimum wage laws apply to those who are working.  Busing UE recipients out to the fields to work, REQUIRES that they be paid minimum wage, under law.  You're putting them to work, they are to be paid as workers.  

It should be noted that agriculture on a scale requiring field workers doesn't exist near any inner cities.  That's why farmers generally have bunk houses and hire crews which move from farm to farm depending on what crops are ready for harvest and when, and why farm labourers are intinerant.  These people would be spending hours riding buses back and forth, not to mention that field days begin at dawn, and end at dusk.  The hours are essential to the work.

Farmer's don't have the money or resources to do the government's paper work in tracking these people.  They're not making big bucks.  They don't pay for worker transportation, nor do the provide training.  This isn't a game for the farmers.

Farmers in states which have cracked down hard on illegal immigrants are seeing crops rot in the field because the work doesn't pay enough for people to get up in the city and drive out to the fields.  Some of the workers said the cost of gas was more than they earned for the day.  Farmers reported that the city folk just weren't physically up to the job, and few stayed.  Entire crops were lost.

Your so-called "solution" creates more problems than it solves, and it is more expensive than you will admit.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 5, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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Correct.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 5, 2017)

Richard-H said:


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*High wages were caused by minimum wage laws.*

Minimum wage laws caused high wages? That's funny.
*
The result was the best economic growth ever*

High union wages were possible after WWII eliminated much of the non-US manufacturing.
Nothing to do with liberal government policy.
They continued until foreign competition and union overreach destroyed many union manufacturers.


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## Dragonlady (Apr 5, 2017)

One of the biggest criticism of "workfare" or use of prison inmates for forced labor is that these programs take real jobs away from those don't work for less than minimum wage - American workers.  If you can hire prison labour for $5 an hour and the prison send guards to oversee the workers, why would you hire low skills locals and train them?

Americans are always willing to put cheap labor ahead of working people, so they will go for slave labour or illegal immigrants, over willing workers paid fair wages.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 5, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> One of the biggest criticism of "workfare" or use of prison inmates for forced labor is that these programs take real jobs away from those don't work for less than minimum wage - American workers.  If you can hire prison labour for $5 an hour and the prison send guards to oversee the workers, why would you hire low skills locals and train them?
> 
> Americans are always willing to put cheap labor ahead of working people, so they will go for slave labour or illegal immigrants, over willing workers paid fair wages.


*
If you can hire prison labour for $5 an hour and the prison send guards to oversee the workers, why would you hire low skills locals and train them?*

Sounds like an argument to boot 15 million illegals.


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## Dragonlady (Apr 5, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > One of the biggest criticism of "workfare" or use of prison inmates for forced labor is that these programs take real jobs away from those don't work for less than minimum wage - American workers.  If you can hire prison labour for $5 an hour and the prison send guards to oversee the workers, why would you hire low skills locals and train them?
> ...



So you're in favour of slave labour?


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## Redfish (Apr 5, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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when you are convicted of a crime and sent to prison, you forfeit your right to be paid for your labor.   You are a criminal,  if your sentence requires some form of work, you do it and don't get paid. 

it amazes me how ignorant some of you liberals are.


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## Redfish (Apr 5, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
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if those collecting UE benefits had to do manual labor in order to collect those benefits, would that create an incentive to "look for a new job"?   Of course it would.

Why would the farmers be overpaying?   Are you saying the unemployment pays better than what illegal crop pickers are being paid? 

Why do you condone the virtual slavery of illegal aliens?   You fricken libs are all over the place on this, not a drop of consistency.


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## Redfish (Apr 5, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> One of the biggest criticism of "workfare" or use of prison inmates for forced labor is that these programs take real jobs away from those don't work for less than minimum wage - American workers.  If you can hire prison labour for $5 an hour and the prison send guards to oversee the workers, why would you hire low skills locals and train them?
> 
> Americans are always willing to put cheap labor ahead of working people, so they will go for slave labour or illegal immigrants, over willing workers paid fair wages.




the unemployed we are talking about are not in prison.   Geez, try to keep up.


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## Brain357 (Apr 5, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
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> > Toddsterpatriot said:
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So you remove hard working immigrants and replace them with criminals.  Now criminals are taking all the jobs.  Your ignorance is epic.


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## Redfish (Apr 5, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
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> > Dragonlady said:
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people on unemployment are not criminals.   I did not start the "use criminals to pick fruit" dialog. 

I also have no issue with LEGAL immigrants picking our crops.   My issue is allowing people in our country ILLEGALLY to stay and do any kind of work.

the issue is enforcing our immigration laws and our borders.   You libs can't seem to comprehend that.


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## Brain357 (Apr 5, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
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> > Redfish said:
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Unemployment is based on what you were making while employed.  Many people who made good money collect unemployment while seeking employment.  So now you are paying them great money to be bad farmers.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 5, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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No, I'm in favor of booting millions of illegal aliens.
Not only because that will help raise American wages.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 5, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
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> > Dragonlady said:
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*So you remove hard working immigrants*

Nope. Just the illegal aliens. Legal immigrants can stay.


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## Redfish (Apr 5, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
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unemployment benefits are a fixed amount that has nothing to do with what you made at your last job.  In many cases a person can collect, for example, $200/week UE, or work for $250/week.   most choose to forgo the extra $50 and stay home.   Is that good for our country?

I guess you see your role here as someone who must disagree with everything just for the sake of disagreeing.   I find that very stupid and a waste of time.   Are you related to Chucky Schumer?   you two are doing the exact same things.


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## Brain357 (Apr 5, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
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I'm just pointing out how disasterous your crazy idea is.

Your weekly benefit amount is determined by adding together your earnings in the two quarters of the base period when you earned the most, taking 47% of that total, then dividing the result by 26. The current maximum weekly unemployment benefit in Illinois is $418 per week. For example, let's say Todd had a steady job during the entire base period, earning $20,000 per year. In the highest paid two quarters, he earned $10,000 total. The state agency will take 47% of that amount ($4,700) and divide it by 26 to come up with his weekly benefit: $180 and change.


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## Dragonlady (Apr 5, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
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If the worker was making $500 a week in his/her previous job, taking a job at $200 would be counterproductive for both the worker and the potential employers.

Since the worker is unlikely to be able to live on $250 a week based on his/her former salary, if this person takes a job for less than they need to live they will either have to find higher paying work, or they will go broke.  If they hire on at $250 a week, they'll leave, which isn't good for the employer or the employee.

You continue to blame poor people for being poor, and for not doing enough (in your opinion) to get themselves out of poverty.  The routes out of poverty are steadily being closed off by the 1%, who are determined to keep low income workers on public assistance.

Each time the left proposes raising the minimum wage, Republicans propose increasing earned income credits.  You keep blaming Democrats for keeping people on public assistance, but it's the Republicans who keep putting the bill for low wages on the back of the middle class.

The middle class needs to swallow slightly higher consumer prices, and stop subsidizing poverty level wages.  If corporations can afford to pay 8 figure salaries to their executives, they don't need to be asking the middle class to subsidize wages for their workers.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 5, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


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Do you really want to stop all that?  Then  two words for  you:  Vote conservative.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 5, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> The routes out of poverty are steadily being closed off by the 1%, .


of course that's a very very stupid liberal lie. High school is free and so is not spreading your legs!!!


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## Dragonlady (Apr 5, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Dragonlady said:
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First off, it's the conservatives who set up and maintain this whole stinking "earned income credits scam", not liberals.  Liberals keep pushing for higher wages, and Republicans want the middle class to pay the low wage workers.

Voting for Republicans with their Cut and Spend policies is what destroyed the US economy in the first place - starting with Ronald Reagan.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 5, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> If corporations can afford to pay 8 figure salaries to their executives, they don't need to be asking the middle class to subsidize wages for their workers.


They cant afford not to pay 8 figures. We call this the law of supply and demand.
You want higher wages? Let Donald ship 30 million illegals home and eliminate the corporate tax that shipped 10 million jobs offshore.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 5, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Republicans want the middle class to pay the low wage workers.



no they don't why to you lie so easily????


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 5, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Voting for Republicans with their Cut and Spend policies is what destroyed the US economy in the first place - starting with Ronald Reagan.



Republicans  have proposed 30 balanced budget amendments since Jefferson's first. Democrats have killed every one. What does that teach you?


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 5, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> it's the Republicans who keep putting the bill for low wages on the back of the middle class.



middle class?? top 1% pay 40% of all federal income tax. The middle class pays very little.


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## Redfish (Apr 5, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Redfish said:
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you just made the case for kiosks at McDonalds.   YOU and YOUR IDEAS are putting low income people out of work.   Happy now?

the price of labor is set by supply and demand.  What more money?  get more education, more skills, or develop a special talent i.e. work.


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## NYcarbineer (Apr 5, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Dragonlady said:
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> > Redfish said:
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Why not bring back slavery then?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 5, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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> > Dragonlady said:
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What destroyed the US economy were unions; Unions who got so greedy they forced industry to pay outrageous wages and benefits to people that did monkey jobs.  When they could no longer  pay any more, they had no choice but to leave the state or country because the American  consumer refused to support those union  wages and  benefits. 

Today people buy the cheapest  products  they can, and it has  nothing  to do with  Reagan or the Republicans.  Mom and pop stores, and just about all brick and mortar stores are closing up because it's even cheaper to buy things online.   The Democrat solution?  Fight  for  increased minimum wages and overpay even more  workers and see what happens.

We all  make  mistakes, but at least Republicans learn from theirs.   We inflated our wages so high it sent our work overseas, so Democrats want more  inflation.  Our government  medical systems are failing  or going  to  fail in the near future, and Democrats started a new government  medical system.  We are experiencing more automation than ever before, and Democrats want   to encourage industry to  make  more  automation investments.  I  swear talking  to liberals is like talking  to a brick wall sometimes.


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## Brain357 (Apr 5, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
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> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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People buy cheap because we no longer have good paying union jobs.  Make service jobs union and watch the economy my soar.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 5, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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> > Dragonlady said:
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Wrong.  This has been a trend for decades now--including when there were more unions.  In fact, they used  to show cars with UAW stickers on the bumpers parked in Walmart lots.  

The American consumer is  not forced  to buy cheap products, we do so as an option.  It's an obsession  we have in this country.  It doesn't matter if you make 150K  a year or 20K.  The American consumer is  always on the hunt for cheaper products and services.  This is because we  have way more things to buy today, and our dollars need to stretch as far as we can make them stretch.  

You think that opening up a union service will make things great again?  Then go ahead and try.  Open  up a lawn care  service and pay your workers union wages and benefits.  See how well you compete against  non-union lawn care companies.  See how long you stay in business.  Make sure your advertisements state you are a union lawn care company.  Bet you don't get ten customers for the year.


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## Redfish (Apr 6, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Redfish said:
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> > Dragonlady said:
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being on generational welfare makes one a slave to government.  Why do you encourage that?


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## Redfish (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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> > Dragonlady said:
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Unions do two things
1. make the union bosses rich
2. funnel your dues to the rich elites in the democrat party.

Unions used to be a force for fair treatment and pay for workers.   Now we have laws that prevent those abuses.  Unions are parasites on the blue collar workers.


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## Dragonlady (Apr 6, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
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You don't have laws that prevent those abuses.  It's nice to see how thoroughly you've swallowed he conservative lie that unions don't help workers.  Those are the same lies that Saint Ronnie used to destroy the air controllers union.  They were lies then and they're lies now.  

I've never been a fan of unions, but I'm smart enough to realize that when destroying the middle class, Reagan went after the unions FIRST.  By 1980, Americans had become complacent with their rights and fair treatment, so it was easy for Reagan to convince the gullible that the unions were the problem, and not unfair practices.


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## Redfish (Apr 6, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Redfish said:
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totally wrong on all counts.  We do have labor laws that limit working hours, require safe working environments, child labor laws, and protections from firing for no cause.  

The middle class is doing just fine.   The left wing mantra that it is losing is bullshit.  But if you really want to help the middle class, repeal obamacare and replace it with something that will work for middle class families.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Redfish said:
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*You don't have laws that prevent those abuses.*

Obama and Clinton, in their 16 years as President, didn't pass laws to prevent abuses? Assholes!


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
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And make workers more money with better benefits.  It's a fact.  Union auto workers make more than non union.


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## Redfish (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
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not true.   look at the non union car factories in the south.  BMW, Mercedes, Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Subaru, Kia.  Good wages, benefits and no union dues.   Then  look at the UAW and how it has destroyed the once great city of Detroit and the once dominant US car industry.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
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> > Redfish said:
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America's shrinking middle class is killing the economy


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## Mr Natural (Apr 6, 2017)

Redfish said:


> not true. look at the non union car factories in the south. BMW, Mercedes, Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Subaru, Kia. Good wages, benefits and no union dues. Then look at the UAW and how it has destroyed the once great city of Detroit and the once dominant US car industry.



And they provide those good wages and benefits to keep the unions out.

So in essence, the unions are serving their purpose.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
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Which union do you belong to?


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## Dragonlady (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
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> > Redfish said:
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That's because Republicans controlled Congress for 12 of those 16 years and defeated every worker-friendly piece of legislation introduced.

No mandated vacations, sick leave, maternity leave, or protections from doing dangerous work.  If a female worker becomes pregnant, she can be fired, or assigned work so dangerous to her developing child, that she has no choice but to quit.  All of this is perfectly legal.  Protections against sexual harrassment of employees are virtually non-existant, as many women who have tried to stop such behaviour have found, just as laws against rape are seldom enforced.

In short, the United States has the hardest working employees, with the least protections of any workers on the planet.  And all I read on these boards is how lazy Americans are.  If you aren't rich in the United States, you are either lazy or stupid, and yet fully half of your citizens are receiving public assistance, in a nation with the highest GDP, the highest average income, and the lowest rate of personal income tax in the first world.

The United States remains the richest nation in the world, and in fact is getting richer as American corporations are busy sucking up profits from their off-shore subsiduaries, and yet the numbers of poor people continue to rise.  What is astonishing is that you continue to blame the poor for their plight, and shower praise on the wealthy who are exploiting them.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Union decline lowers wages of nonunion workers: The overlooked reason why wages are stuck and inequality is growing


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## Papageorgio (Apr 6, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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It is illegal to fire a women if she gets pregnant, can you name the companies that do? Can you name the companies that reassigned pregnant women to dangerous work? It sounds like it is happening all the time! It will be easy for you to site a dozen or so articles.


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## Redfish (Apr 6, 2017)

Mr Clean said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > not true. look at the non union car factories in the south. BMW, Mercedes, Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Subaru, Kia. Good wages, benefits and no union dues. Then look at the UAW and how it has destroyed the once great city of Detroit and the once dominant US car industry.
> ...




if the workers thought unions would help them, they could vote them in.   If you think the UAW is not constantly trying to get into the southern auto factories, you are quite naïve.  But the workers don't want or need them.

The GM bailout, using taxpayer money, was done to save the UAW and keep its money flowing to the DNC.   If GM had gone through a structured bankruptcy the result would have been several smaller more efficient companies, each of those new companies would have had to have a union representation vote.   the unions and the dems could not take that risk so they used our money to keep GM and the UAW viable.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Union decline lowers wages of nonunion workers: The overlooked reason why wages are stuck and inequality is growing



Which union do you belong to?


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## Redfish (Apr 6, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
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she can't and won't.   what our resident libs do is repeat talking points,  they do not care if they are true or not.  its all about keeping the propaganda flowing.


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## Mr Natural (Apr 6, 2017)

Redfish said:


> if the workers thought unions would help them, they could vote them in. If you think the UAW is not constantly trying to get into the southern auto factories, you are quite naïve. *But the workers don't want or need them.*



Because they're treated well enough without the unions only because the companies don't want the unions in there.

The last thing a smart employer wants is an organized workforce.


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## danielpalos (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
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too much irony for hypocrites?  it is about being legal to our own laws instead of merely, "harassing" less fortunate illegals for their illegalities.


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## danielpalos (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
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just untermenchen talk?


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## Redfish (Apr 6, 2017)

Mr Clean said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > if the workers thought unions would help them, they could vote them in. If you think the UAW is not constantly trying to get into the southern auto factories, you are quite naïve. *But the workers don't want or need them.*
> ...




The bottom line is that the workers are getting good pay and benefits without the unions.  

I don't buy your argument that it is due to fear of the unions.   But you are free to believe that if it makes you feel good.


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## danielpalos (Apr 6, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


You are an anecdote.  Capitalism's natural rate of unemployment is a market based reality.


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## Redfish (Apr 6, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




enforcing immigration laws is harassment?    WTF?


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## danielpalos (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


Employers pay labor.  I am advocating simplifying our current regime of unemployment compensation, to a general tax on firms.


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## Redfish (Apr 6, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




so you would guarantee everyone an income whether they work or not?    Why would anyone work under that system?


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## danielpalos (Apr 6, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


dear, Mr. Trump and the poor, pay the taxes they are legally obligated to pay.

don't complain; be Patriotic.


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## danielpalos (Apr 6, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


it is a social safety net because capitalism failed in 1929, and we need socialism to bailout capitalism like usual, in modern times.


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## Redfish (Apr 6, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...




companies are already taxed.   Who pays taxes levied on companies?   We do, the consumers.


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## danielpalos (Apr 6, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Providing for the general *welfare* is in our Constitution.  Providing for the common offense or general warfare is not.


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## Redfish (Apr 6, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


 
capitalism didn't fail in 1929,   have you ever had a class in American history?   Its amazing how ignorant many americans are about our own country's history.


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## Redfish (Apr 6, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




welfare in the context used in the constitution does not mean giving money to the poor or lazy.   it means providing an environment that is safe and fair.   It does not mean guaranteeing everyone equal results in life.


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## danielpalos (Apr 6, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


this is why i don't take the right wing seriously about the law or economics.

too much irony for hypocrites? it is about being legal to our own laws instead of merely, "harassing" less fortunate illegals for their illegalities.


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## danielpalos (Apr 6, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


We subscribe to capitalism?


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## danielpalos (Apr 6, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


I am suggesting simplifying our current regime to make it more effective and less expensive.


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## danielpalos (Apr 6, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
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dear, capitalism died in 1929, and socialism has been bailing it out, ever since.


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## danielpalos (Apr 6, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


I don't take the right wing seriously about the law or economics.  

The general welfare is not the specific welfare.  You only have, "specifics".


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I would support no corp taxes as long as it is tied to hiring here and good wages and benefits.  More employees and better wages, lower taxes.  Lots of well paid US employees, no taxes.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Which union do you belong to?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Self employed.


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## Redfish (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




buy American and hire American.   You sound like Trump.


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## Redfish (Apr 6, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




the words of the constitution and the intent of the founders is quite clear.   Individual freedom and responsibility in an environment of law.  

Freedom includes both the freedom to succeed and the freedom to fail.  Your results are based on your efforts and are not guaranteed by the federal government.


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## Redfish (Apr 6, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




Have you read Atlas Shrugged?   If not, I suggest that you do.   Also try 1984.  Rand and Orwell saw this mess coming and wrote about it.   They were prophetic in their accuracy about what this country has become.

The "equalization of opportunity" act in Atlas  could have been written by a liberal democrat in 2016


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Obviously I agree with the idea of bringing back more good jobs.  I don't agree with how he thinks he can do it.  The idea of lowering corp taxes for good jobs and benefits seems way better than anything I'm hearing.  Corps use the tax savings to pay more so inflation is limited.  Employees making more pay more in income tax so gov still gets paid.  Walmart could probably even pay enough so employees aren't on welfare, another plus.  Money goes direct from employer to employee.  No gov programs needed.


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## Redfish (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



'
you and Trump are saying the exact same things,  strange that you don't know that.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Similar goal, different strategy.  He will give tax cuts with no strings attached.  Those will go straight to the rich as we have seen with previous tax cuts.  He wants tariffs which I have never seen work.  Kicking out immigrants will increase costs by more than wages.


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## danielpalos (Apr 6, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Both terms, promote and provide are used in reference to the general welfare; that means, what ever will work in the most cost effective manner.


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## danielpalos (Apr 6, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


just right wing fiction.  it is relatively meaningless in modern, economic times.


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## Redfish (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




No one wants to kick out immigrants or stop immigration.  Do you understand that an illegal alien is not an immigrant?   Do you understand that enforcing our immigration laws is one of the primary duties of the federal government?  

What strings would you attach to corporate tax cuts?   that they must hire people they don't need?  

most countries put tariffs on US goods entering their country.   Why shouldn't we do the same things to protect American jobs?


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## Redfish (Apr 6, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




you obviously have not read either book.   not surprising.


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## Redfish (Apr 6, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




I think the words are "promote the general welfare"   not "provide welfare in general".


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## danielpalos (Apr 6, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


just plain false analogies.


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## Redfish (Apr 6, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




the meanings of the words are not in dispute, the words in the constitution are clear, the intent of the founders is clear.

they wanted a national environment that allowed any citizen to "pursue happiness" as he or she desired.   They had declared independence from a system where everyone was subject to the whims and desires of monarchs and tyrants.

Don't you understand that a government that is big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...


*
That's because Republicans controlled Congress for 12 of those 16 years and defeated every worker-friendly piece of legislation introduced.*

They didn't do this vital work while they controlled all 3 branches?
Incompetent assholes!

*in a nation with the highest GDP, the highest average income, and the lowest rate of personal income tax in the first world.*

One and two correct, number three.....wrong!


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



*it is about being legal to our own laws*

Exactly!
Our laws say, unemployment benefits are for those laid off.
Not for quitters or never workers.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Moron says what?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Capitalism didn't fail in 1929.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



*this is why i don't take the right wing seriously about the law or economics.*

It's because you're an idiot who understands neither.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



I don't think there will be any real benefit to kicking out illegals and spending billions on a wall.

The tax policy would be complicated, but no more than current corp tax policy I'm sure.  There would be conservative employment numbers to reach based on industry.  So for example Walmart has lots of US employees and would probably already qualify for the full deduction for number of employees.   They are however not so good for wages and benefits.  So if they increased those to a conservative livable wage they could move to 0 corp tax paid.  The livable wage would be calculated by area.  The goal for that wage would be to make  in access of being able to collect any welfare and high enough to require they pay income tax.

I think most other countries economies are also stunted by those tariffs.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Interesting, everyone that says we need unions, don't belong to unions. Why is that? You believe you need them yet, you fail to join.


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## BrokeLoser (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



*"I don't think there will be any real benefit to kicking out illegals and spending billions on a wall."
*
In the spirit of total transparency...what part of Mexico are you from and how long have you been riding the back of REAL American's?


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



It is not an option for me.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



And if it was, you wouldn't join anyway, I tire of the dishonesty from you supposed "pro-union" people.


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## jc456 (Apr 6, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


he's a person with no respect for the working class or our country.


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## jc456 (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


so how is it you would know their value?


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## jc456 (Apr 6, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


i'm not complaining about paying taxes.  I'm complaining that people do nothing for the money they receive off the backs of hard workers and ask you why you feel they should be allowed to have that honor?  And you can't answer.  You're just a loser.


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## jc456 (Apr 6, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


I agree with you that unemployment is a market based reality.  If there are no incentives to get a new job, the country will go broke. Giving out free money forever would just shrink the working class as has been evidenced through the failed eight years of obummer.  more people on food stamps under obummer.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



There is a lot of information available on the subject.


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## jc456 (Apr 6, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


see this post....


Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


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## jc456 (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


and it all says we've outlived the usefulness of a union.  A union only keeps the administrators wealthy.  It's as failed as the government programs.  Oh yeah most government jobs are failed unions.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 6, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> The United States remains the richest nation in the world, and in fact is getting richer as American corporations are busy sucking up profits from their off-shore subsiduaries, and yet the numbers of poor people continue to rise. What is astonishing is that you continue to blame the poor for their plight, and shower praise on the wealthy who are exploiting them.



If the poor people are not  responsible for their plight, then who is?  

In the USA, poverty is  an option, not an affliction.  If you  want  to be poor, then be poor.  If you don't want to be poor, then work and don't be poor.   If you want to be poor, have children you can't financially support.  If you don't want to be  poor, don't have children until you are very financially secure.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



Strange.  Repubs have been saying that for 40 years.  But as unions have declined, wages have been stagnant and the middle class has shrunk.  Seems you are wrong.


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## Markle (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> _Corporate share of federal tax revenue has dropped by __two-thirds in 60 years__ — from 32% in 1952 to 10% in 2013._
> _General Electric, Boeing, Verizon and 23 other profitable Fortune 500 firms __paid no federal income taxes__ from 2008 to 2012._
> _288 big and profitable Fortune 500 corporations paid an average effective federal tax rate of just __19.4% from 2008 to 2012._
> _Profitable corporations paid U.S. income taxes amounting to just __12.6% of worldwide income__ in 2010._
> ...



As you know, it is the consumer of the products of a corporation who pay the taxes, increasing the cost of those products.

As you know too, a corporation has a fiduciary duty to their owners (stockholders) to earn the highest profits legally possible.

Have any of the corporations you cite done anything illegal?


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## jc456 (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


dude right to work states will change that.  Why do you think the unions want to take down the right to work option?  Workers are opting out of the unions.  LOL.  dude you don't know squat juice.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



Unions are already pretty much gone.  Where is the prosperity?  Admit you are wrong already.


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## jc456 (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


why would I do that?  Unions are dying like I said.  thanks for agreeing, perhaps it is you who ought to apologize already.  loser.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 6, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



JC the guy doesn't even belong to a union, I am willing to bet he has never donated a dime to a union, he also probably owns a car not made at a union shop, he doesn't shop at union stores, he doesn't buy union products, yet he somehow supports unions. LOL!!!


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## Markle (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> _General Electric, Boeing, Verizon and 23 other profitable Fortune 500 firms __paid no federal income taxes__ from 2008 to 2012._


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



Dying with our economy.  Stagnant wages.  Dying middle class.   Slow growth.  If killing unions is good, where is the prosperity?


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## jc456 (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


it's getting out of the fking union. ya tool


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



So stagnant wages, dying middle class, and slow growth is your prosperity?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Killing unions has less to do with  prosperity than  it does  keeping jobs in  the country and not encouraging industry to invest more in automation.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



So it was all a lie.  You killed unions and there is not any prosperity.  Go figure.


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## Dragonlady (Apr 6, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > The United States remains the richest nation in the world, and in fact is getting richer as American corporations are busy sucking up profits from their off-shore subsiduaries, and yet the numbers of poor people continue to rise. What is astonishing is that you continue to blame the poor for their plight, and shower praise on the wealthy who are exploiting them.
> ...



I don't know what's worse:  That you believe this bullshit, or that you vote on that basis.

The poor didn't set up the system and they don't maintain it.  The rich have blocked nearly every path out of poverty there is.  Education:  students now graduate with so much debt, that they are moving home with their parents and delaying marriage, buying a house and starting life.

Despite the charts and graphs which have been posted which prove otherwise, despite the figures on the transfer of wealth from working class and middle class to the top 5%, you still continue to believe the deck is NOT stacked against working yourself out of poverty.

Fewer and fewer Americans, by percentage, are successful, even while corporate profits have never been higher.  And there you sit denying that this is the real problem.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 6, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> and yet the numbers of poor people continue to rise. .



mostly  because liberals have attacked and destroyed their families rendering them unfit for school and work but fit for childbirth!!
of course it does not help that liberals invited in 30 million illegal angels to take their jobs and to drive down wages or that liberals encourage corporations to take 10 million  jobs off shore with the highest corporate taxes in the world.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Was there prosperity with unions?  I must have missed that one. 

We on the right realized the reason jobs left the country and needed  to put a stop to it.  So we didn't support  unions for that reason.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



*But as unions have declined, wages have been stagnant and the middle class has shrunk.* 

If unions were doing a good job, employment in union heavy sectors would be increasing, instead of shrinking.

You can't hide the truth, unions suck.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Yes, there was great prosperity and economic growth.

So the Repub vision for the economy is stagnant wages, no middle class, and slow economic growth?  Just be glad you have a job?  How sad.


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## Markle (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> I would support no corp taxes as long as it is tied to hiring here and good wages and benefits.



Socialism

Government owning and running the businesses.  No thank you.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Markle said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > _Corporate share of federal tax revenue has dropped by __two-thirds in 60 years__ — from 32% in 1952 to 10% in 2013._
> ...


*
As you know, it is the consumer of the products of a corporation who pay the taxes*

As well as the owners and employees.
*
Have any of the corporations you cite done anything illegal?*

None of the corporations that brain357 is whining about did anything illegal.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



The self employed can still join a union, show us you really support unions, join one today!


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 6, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Fewer and fewer Americans, by percentage, are successful, even while corporate profits have never been higher.  And there you sit denying that this is the real problem.



so taking corporate profits at gunpoint for even more crippling welfare is the solution??

Its a free country. if corporate profits are so high why not start one and enjoy the profits or use them to pay workers as much as you want?

the idea of some Marxist twit punishing our corporations just when global competition  is taking over the planet is supreme and deadly liberal  pure ignorance


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## jc456 (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


that is due to regulation and healthcare.  again, more failed obummer policy.  Trump will be recovering some of those lost jobs, opening up new opportunities with new programs because he lifted regulations.  It will soon be much better.  doesn't take away from those too lazy to look for a job.  And you wish no prosperity by keeping them dependent on the state.  such a white guy.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


*
Unions are already pretty much gone.*

We still need to outlaw public sector unions.


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## Markle (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> So the Repub vision for the economy is stagnant wages, no middle class, and slow economic growth? Just be glad you have a job? How sad.



You're describing what we have had the past years.  How is malaise the Republican vision when it is the result of Progressive policies?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...



*Education: students now graduate with so much debt, that they are moving home with their parents and delaying marriage, buying a house and starting life.*

We threw trillions in government money at colleges and they increased their prices in response.
Good job!


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 6, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...



Like I've said so many times, yes, the people  at the top are getting  money from people at the bottom and middle, but not by force.  The people at the bottom and middle freely give their money to the top, and at times, even beg them to take it.

You do it, I do  it, everybody here does it.  Yet even though we are responsible for this wealth transfer, some complain about it  even though they are  part of the problem. 

The "rich" are not making education unaffordable, it's those liberal colleges that make education unaffordable.  They can preach all the Socialism they want to their students, but when it comes to their pocketbooks, they take advantage of the supply and demand  process more so than those greedy CEO's and  business owners.

So again, poverty is a choice, not an affliction.  If you don't believe so, then give me your scenario how somebody  ends up poor.  I'll give you mine  how to stay out of poverty:

A kid graduates high school.  He or she gets a  job and starts earning money.  They try to live with their parents as  long as possible (or as long as they can take it) and save money for a house  or a nest egg if they decided  to rent.

Once that kid gets kicked out of the house or opts to get  their own place, they get friends or family members to go on an apartment and divide up the living costs.  They continue to save money, and continue to get pay increases at their job or try to advance themselves  within the company.  They don't have any children, stay away from buying unnecessary things  like the latest cell phone, the newest car, the most expensive cable or  satellite package.

This is how you stay out of poverty.  And if that  doesn't work, get  a secondary job on the weekends or perhaps work overtime if your company  offers it.  Now you tell me how somebody getting out of  school ends up in poverty.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




*Yes, there was great prosperity and economic growth.*

Is that why they call they call it the Rust Belt, because of all the union prosperity?


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## Markle (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> We still need to outlaw public sector unions.



Even Progressives idol, FDR agrees with you!


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## jc456 (Apr 6, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


again it was the progressives that pushed us into this.  they took away an alternate path for employment.  Ask Mike Rowe...

Mike Rowe on How to Combat Unemployment & the Skills Gap

"Rowe said there are 5.6 million job openings waiting to be filled in fields that for the most part do not require a bachelor's degree.

The former "Dirty Jobs" host and QVC pitchman said he's sent letters to both former President Barack Obama and President Donald Trump drawing attention to that fact.

"There's a belief ... in the country that we can cure unemployment by creating opportunity," Rowe said. "The skills gap proves that opportunity along is not enough to get people employed."

"It's a sucker's bet ... You have to be talking about jobs that are uniformly cared about," Rowe said, referencing many trades where such job openings exist."


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > I would support no corp taxes as long as it is tied to hiring here and good wages and benefits.
> ...



No they wouldn't own or run any businesses.  Would shrink gov by getting people off welfare.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



It started with Reagan.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



There was great prosperity?  Do you know the word  "prosperity" comes from the word prosperous; meaning accumulating great wealth and having  more than enough material items?   I don't recall unions doing that. 

The Republican vision is for people to get off their ass and  make something of themselves.  No more turning nuts onto bolts and getting paid $50,000 a year.  Those days are long gone and they are never coming back.  Your only two choices are hope and pray somebody hires you to do monkey jobs and pays you great  wages, or learn a trade or profession and MAKE YOURSELF  worth more money.  

That's the Republicans vision.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 6, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> the figures on the transfer of wealth from working class and middle class to the top 5%,



That is typical Marxist class warfare based on lie there is a fixed amount of wealth. In fact, we are all a lot  wealthier than we were 50 years ago. The top 5% have a larger % of total wealth simply because they have not been targets of liberal programs that destroyed the families, schools, churches, and jobs of the  lower and middle class.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 6, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...



in  my field of work alone, we need over 60,000 new drivers industry can't find.  While the libs post all these hard luck stories, there are all kinds of jobs that Americans won't  take.  They have their Obama phone, their HUD house in the  suburbs, their Obama Care  free of  charge, and sit home getting fat off their SNAP's cards. 

Jobs are not the problem in the US---motivation is the problem.  It's like Rush Limbaugh said so  many times "If  you pay people not to work, don't be too surprised when they don't."


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


wrong it would still be welfare just handed out by the corporations. The free market must determine all wages and prices to be efficient at raising our standard at the fastest rate possible. A liberal lacks the IQ to understand capitalism
or even to read a book about it. Imagine how different debates would be if liberals knew how to read books?


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Thats funny, trump keeps saying he is going to bring manufacturing back.

Unemployment is low, people are working.  The jobs just are not so good without unions.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



How'd those awesome unions do when they owned United Airlines?
It must have been awesome, eh?


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...



Yes republican trickle down and voodoo economics a huge success.  Very funny.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



They should not own a business.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Why not?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



*republican trickle down and voodoo economics*

What's that? let's hear some specifics.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 6, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The jobs just are not so good without unions.


wrong of course since unions drove 20 million jobs off shore. we could always bring unions back if wanted to drive another 20 million jobs offshore!! Would you like that?


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 6, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The jobs just are not so good without unions.


wrong of course since unions drove 20 million jobs off shore. we could always bring unions back if wanted to drive another 20 million jobs offshore and lower wages still further!! Would you like that?[/QUOTE]


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Yes republican trickle down and voodoo economics a huge success.  Very funny.



if wealth didn't trickle down under Republican capitalism you would not have 100 million Americans
 with iphone super computers in their pockets

Instead liberals want trickle down welfare


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


https://www.usnews.com/opinion/econ...onald-trumps-budget-could-be-voodoo-economics


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



You can't explain?
Maybe you should cut and paste if that helps your point?


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
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> 
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Can you read? I don't have time to teach you everything.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
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I can read.
If you post your definition of "republican trickle down and voodoo economics"
I'll be happy to read it.


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## Markle (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> There is a lot of information available on the subject [benefits of unions].



Yes, there is a lot of information on unions.  However, evaluated fairly, none of it is good.
Why did the American auto industry have to be NEEDLESSLY bailed out?  Because companies moving their production into Right to Work states could build cars for less.

What most people forget or ignore is the fact that the bailout from petulant former President Obama was for the AUTO UNIONS, NOT THE AUTO COMPANIES.

To the Progressives who are going to whine and moan that 2 or 20 or 100 million workers would have lost their jobs, I pose this question.

How many fewer new autos would have been sold in the United States had G.M. and Chrysler declared bankruptcy in the traditional manner?


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## Markle (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Can you read? I don't have time to teach you everything.



What a cop out!

That's like a politician resigning because of a scandal saying they are resigning in order to spend more time with their family.


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## Markle (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> So stagnant wages, dying middle class, and slow growth is your prosperity?



Obviously, it is yours.  After all, that is the economy petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama provided over past eight years.


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## Markle (Apr 6, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Education: students now graduate with so much debt, that they are moving home with their parents and delaying marriage, buying a house and starting life.



Whose fault is that?  PROGRESSIVES!  Democrats/Progressives have worked diligently to convince everyone that they MUST go to college in order to be successful.  In order to make that easier, they have worked even harder to make LOANS easily available to students.  The result is that there is far more competition for the available spaces in all universities.  What happens when the demand exceeds the supply?  The price increases as has happened all across the country.

We now have another massive bubble, the result of Progressive policies is the student loan bubble.  That debt is over $1.4 TRILLION!

"More than one in ten borrowers are at least 90 days behind in repaying their student debt, which puts them in the “serious” debt category. Payment progress was particularly low among those with larger debts and those from lower-income areas."  5 alarming facts about America's $1.3 trillion in student loan debt


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## Markle (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *As you know, it is the consumer of the products of a corporation who pay the taxes*
> 
> As well as the owners and employees.



Not at all true.  Not even close.

The only revenue available to the owners and employees is the consumer.  If you know of any other source, please feel free to post it now.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Markle said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > *As you know, it is the consumer of the products of a corporation who pay the taxes*
> ...



*Not at all true. Not even close.*

You raise taxes on my company, I have less to pay dividends. Less to pay employees.

*The only revenue available to the owners and employees is the consumer.*

Unless you're raising a sales tax...so what?
We're no longer talking about consumers money, we're talking about money now held by the company.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > So stagnant wages, dying middle class, and slow growth is your prosperity?
> ...



He provided recovery, bush provided recession.  I'm an independent btw.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
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Well, would you rather have jobs "not so good" or no jobs at all?  That's the only two choices you have. 

Your comment  reminds me of something that happened to me years ago.  One of our customers makes crates.  They make crates the size of suitcases to crates the size of tractor-trailers.  We delivered those crates to companies  that were moving out of state or out of the  country. 

Whenever possible, I would try to learn  more by starting a discussion about the move with the supervisor, the company  owner, and even the workers.  

In most cases, the company had to leave because of the unions.  So I would ask the workers if they ever considered meeting the company demands in order to keep their jobs?  They said they would never consider it.  The union convinced them that the company was only trying  to take advantage of them, or that the union would find  them another union job so  it didn't matter.  Let the company close down.  Who cares if they didn't play ball with the union employees?  

Well, they all lost their jobs, and the union more than likely didn't find them squat.  So in the end, they lost and the company still survived.  

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand that logic.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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That sure sounds loser.  Bad jobs or no jobs is the best repubs have.  Funny.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
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And where do you get this  "Republicans" thing all the time?  What does this have to do with the Republican party?  You do know Bill Gates is a big lib, don't you?  How about the late Steve Jobs?  Both have sent American  jobs overseas or made arrangements overseas to reduce their taxation.   

Which one is  funnier, Republicans wanting any kind  of jobs or Democrats wanting no jobs?


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## Markle (Apr 6, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Fewer and fewer Americans, by percentage, are successful



Who has been in charge for the past decade?  Allow me to assist.  Petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



The loser attitude is just wrong.  We are the largest economy in the world, the richest nation in history.  Yes we can have lots of good jobs.


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## Dragonlady (Apr 6, 2017)

Markle said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Fewer and fewer Americans, by percentage, are successful
> ...



This has nothing to do with Obama and everything to do with the Republican tax code which set all of this in motion in the 1980's.  Look to where Americans savings peaked and started dropping off - 1982, when wages stagnated, 1981, when corporate mergers and profits started rising.  Everything dates back to the Reagan tax code.

You idiots keep blaming Democrats, when it's the Republicans who keep electing who did this to you.  Democrats haven't  been able to change tax policy to reverse this, but it is the greatest transfer of wealth in the history of man and it all went one way - to the top 5%


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



And yet Obama gave us the weakest recovery in 70 years.


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## Markle (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> It started with Reagan.



Your usual lie.

As you know, it started with President Lyndon Baines Johnson.


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## WaitingFor2020 (Apr 6, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?



Oh GFY and take your gaslighting bullshit elsewhere.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 6, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...



So what  did Reagan do with that Democrat  Congress?  He took more money away from  government--not take money away from the working  people.  Where do you people get this notion that when government takes less from job creators, it is somehow stealing from the middle-class?


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## WaitingFor2020 (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



And it's about to get worse under von TrumpleStiltSkin, the giant Cheeto:
*Two of Wall Street's Biggest Names Are Sounding the Alarm on the U.S. Economy*
"
Two of Wall Street’s most influential CEOs -- Larry Fink and Jamie Dimon -- are raising warning flags over the nation’s economy.
BlackRock Inc.’s Fink said Thursday that U.S. growth is slowing on concern whether the Trump administration’s agenda will get through Congress. Dimon lamented that “it is clear that something is wrong” with the nation in a letter to investors Tuesday. Both CEOs are part of a group of business leaders that advise President Donald Trump.""""

You're gonna' fuckin' BEG for Obama to come back to the White House.  He might as well.  It's empty most of the time *since The Dumpster spends our tax money to stay in Florida*.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



What loser attitude?  If we are the richest  nation in history; have  the largest economy in the world, would that not indicate we are doing something right that the rest of the world is not doing?  

We can have lots of jobs? Okay, then open up your own business and create some of those good jobs.  Let's see how you do with your business model compared to the successful ones.


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## WaitingFor2020 (Apr 6, 2017)

Face it, rightwing idiots.  Trump is failing and he's failing badly.  The good news is that he won't be here this time next year.  Either he will be impeached or he will resign because he's not been "...treated fairly"!  _Sad_.


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## Markle (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *The only revenue available to the owners and employees is the consumer.*
> 
> *Unless you're raising a sales tax...so what?
> We're no longer talking about consumers money, we're talking about money now held by the company.*


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## Markle (Apr 6, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> You idiots keep blaming Democrats, when it's the Republicans who keep electing who did this to you. Democrats haven't been able to change tax policy to reverse this, but it is the greatest transfer of wealth in the history of man and it all went one way - to the top 5%



Who again was in charge?  Petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama.

Are you even aware, or do you refuse to admit that under the Obama reign, taxes skyrocketed along with regulations which drastically increased costs for owners?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

WaitingFor2020 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



*Dimon lamented that “it is clear that something is wrong” with the nation in a letter to investors Tuesday.*

Ummmm...he's talking about the mess Obama left us.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Markle said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > *The only revenue available to the owners and employees is the consumer.*
> ...



If Congress raises corporate tax rates tomorrow, do companies get to go back
and take more money from previous customers?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 6, 2017)

WaitingFor2020 said:


> Face it, rightwing idiots.  Trump is failing and he's failing badly.  The good news is that he won't be here this time next year.  Either he will be impeached or he will resign because he's not been "...treated fairly"!  _Sad_.



So you think that an all Republican federal government will impeach a Republican President?  Then you wonder  why we  call you people uninformed voters?????


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Which is understandable given he was handed 2 wars, a recession, housing bubble, out of control deficits...


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



You say our economy is dead in the water and the best we can do is bad jobs that people should be happy with.  You can't see how that is a loser attitude?  You really are lost.


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## danielpalos (Apr 6, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Both terms, promote and provide are used in reference to the general welfare; that means, what ever will work in the most cost effective manner.


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## danielpalos (Apr 6, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


The common defense is not the power for the common offense, even if a good offense is the best defense.


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## danielpalos (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


can you cite a State labor code that states that?


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## danielpalos (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


only untermenchen have nothing but fallacy.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



There is only one  solution to dealing with bad jobs, and  that is  get  a better job. 

The days of going  into the workforce with no experience or training  and  being able to make a good living are long gone.  You can accept that or continue to live in disbelief.  

The real loser attitude  is living in the past  where you can drive  around on a floor sweeper and make 50K a year plus good benefits.   It's simply not there anymore than a telephone operator, a ditch digger, a ice man to deliver ice blocks  for your refrigerator or a coal man to shovel  coal into your basement so you can create heat  for your home.  

There are just some things that you can never get back such as great paying monkey jobs.  And I never said our economy was dead in the water.  I think our economy is doing fine.


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## danielpalos (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Yes, it did.


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## danielpalos (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


says the untermenchen, with nothing but fallacy.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Sorry, but I believe the jobs situation can be greatly improved.  Sorry you are defeated, I'm not.  Heck, even Trump knows it can improve.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Presidents handle recessions all the time,
but the weakness of his recovery was special.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



_Requirements in IL_

_In order to be eligible for Illinois unemployment benefits you must meet the following standards:_


_You must meet the wage requirement by having earned enough wages from an employer covered by the unemployment law in the past 18 months_
_You must be unemployed through no fault of your own._
_You must be able and available to work_
_You must be allowed to work in the US legally and be an Illinois resident_
_You must meet the wage requirement. Then, the Illinois Department of Employment Security (IDES) examiners will look at the circumstances of your dismissal and other issues to determine eligibility. When you file for benefits, you must register with the __IDES’s job search website__._

*Eligibility Requirements Explained*
*Able and Available to Work*
_You must be physically and mentally able to work when you file your initial claim. You must be available to accept suitable employment; a job you are trained to do, capable of performing and one that pays a similar salary to your own. The longer you’re unemployed, you’ll be expected to accept jobs that pay less._

*Unemployed Through No Fault of Your Own*
_Your actions or decisions cannot be the cause of your separation from work. If the shop moved to a new city or the employer had no work for you, you may be qualified if otherwise eligible._

_Wage Requirement and the Base Period_

_The IDES will observe if you have any wages from “covered employers.” Covered employers are businesses required to pay unemployment insurance taxes. Some occupations and employers are not covered. If you worked for one of these employers, you will not be eligible to collect unemployment insurance._

_The state will look at your wages over a 12-month period called “the base period.” Your base period will be the first four out of the last five quarters you worked prior to the date you filed your initial claim for benefits._




_This chart shows the base period._

_Additionally:_


_You must earn at least $1,600 during the base period_
_Excluding the quarter where you earned the most money, you must have earned at least $440._
_The IDES may require additional information from you regarding your claim if there are separation issues and your employer protests the benefit award, or you provided information they could not confirm. You may even be called after a weekly certification. _*You must respond when they request to speak with you in person or face loosing benefits.*

*Unemployment Benefit Amount in Illinois*
_The IDES will use the base period wages to calculate your weekly benefit amount (WBA). The amount will equal 47% of the average of your wages in the two highest earning quarters of the base period divided by 26 (the maximum amount of weeks you may receive benefits is 26)._

_You may claim dependents on your claim, just as you would for taxes. However, you can only claim either a spouse as a dependent or children, not both._

_The state provides a __chart to allow you to estimate your Illinois WBA__. This chart includes the maximum amount you can receive. As of 2017, the max WBA for an individual is $449. The max with a spousal dependent is $535. The max WBA using children as dependents is $613._

Illinois Unemployment – Know Your Rights


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Really? What president ever handled recession while dealing with 2 wars?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Okay, fair enough, how do you improve it? 

How do you influence companies to overpay workers that their consumers will not support?  How do you provide good paying jobs where such costs gets transferred to the product or service that will steer customers away from  your company to lower priced services or goods?  

Companies can provide three things to the public:  good paying jobs, good investment opportunities, and low cost products or services.  You can have one  or two, but  not all three.  It's just impossible to provide. 

So  we  as a society decided that our priorities are low cost products and  services, and good investment  opportunities secondary.  Good paying  monkey jobs are last on the list.  So how does one  go about changing  that?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Nope.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Didn't he end both wars?
You'd think with his addition of over $9 trillion to the debt, the economy would have soared.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Good questions.  Just to begin.  Do you agree there is more than enough wealth to go around.  I have seen no reason to believe there isn't.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



You failed to answer my question.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Doesn't Costco do what you say is impossible? 

Costco Will Raise Minimum Wage as Competition for Workers Grows


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Wealth doesn't "go around" wealth is  created.  

Diseases go  around, rumors go around, gossip goes around, but not wealth.    

The problem we have in  this country is  many wait for others to create wealth and  give their earnings to them.  Is it not better to teach people  to create wealth  for themselves instead of  hoping  others will give them their wealth? 

Who complains  the most about lack of wealth?  Those who have  never invested  their own money to create wealth.   

Companies make  outrageous  profits!  Okay, so why not buy stocks in  those  companies  and share  in those  profits?  

CEO"s  are overpaid!   Okay,  then why not become a CEO  yourself and  get  overpaid? 

We can  create better jobs!  Okay, so start your own  company and  create those jobs  you speak  of!

Companies try to get the cheapest labor they can. Okay, but don't you do  the very same?  If you get three estimates for lawn care of your home, do you not choose the cheapest company?  If you need the transmission rebuilt on your car, do you not choose the cheapest  garage to rebuild it?  If you  want to put an addition  on your home, don't you choose the  cheapest  construction  company to  do the job?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



He gave us the weakest recovery in 70 years because he couldn't wind down 2 wars that were already over?
You'd think the smartest President ever would have sucked less.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Wars are difficult.  You failed to answer again.  He also had the housing bubble.  Would have been easy to go backwards, look at Bush.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



You didn't really answer the question.  Do companies still generate enough profit to pay well?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



*Wars are difficult.* 

You're right. His poor performance wasn't limited to the economy.

Poor Obama, if the job was going to be too difficult for him, he shouldn't have run.

*He also had the housing bubble.*

What do you mean he had it? It had already burst before he took office. Starting in 2006.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Waiting for you to give a president with as many problems to fix that did better.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...








Compensation of employees is over $10 trillion.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Companies do not rely on gross profit.  Companies rely on  investments. 

For you  to understand  this  better, let's  say you ran  into a small fortune:  A  lottery winning, a relative  that  passed away, a lawsuit.  

In any case, you end  up (after taxes) with about  400K.  Now  your  house  is paid for, your car is paid  for you have no outstanding  debts.  So what  do you do  with this 400K if you were  smart?  You invest it.  

So you address a reputable investment company and  have  them do research  on  making your money grow.  You don't  want  anything too aggressive, you want  a conservative lower risk growth, and your company presents  two options:  

Company A has been  around for a long  time.  Their growth rate is 5.5% per year.  Company B is  very similar, but they only have a 3.5% growth.  Which company will you invest  your new money in? 

Before  you make your final  decision,  I have to tell you that company A has a  gross profit of 1.5 million a year.  Company B  has a gross  profit of 2 billion a year.  Does that  make any difference to you when choosing who to  invest your  money with?  

Of course not.  You could care less what a company makes every year, you only care about how your money is going  to grow.   So if company A announces they are going  to  pay their  employees more than their labor is worth, and that reduces their investment growth, would you still invest  in their company?  

I didn't think so, because nobody would.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
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He had more problems than any other President? LOL!

That has to be the funniest thing I've heard in a long time.

Feel free to explain what it was about the 2 wars, that he ended, that made it impossible for us to have a decent recovery.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
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Interesting number.  So like over $60k for each person in the workforce?  Does that number include all forms of compensation?


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
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Still waiting.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
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You have quite the way of avoiding answering the question.

United States Corporate Profits | 1950-2017 | Data | Chart | Calendar


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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You're waiting for a list of Presidents that dealt with bigger problems than Obama had?
What are you, 12?

Lincoln, Wilson, FDR, Truman, LBJ, Nixon, Carter, Reagan.
And plenty more. And none of them added $9+ trillion to the debt while delivering such a weak recovery.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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That is funny.  Reagan had no wars and started our debt problem.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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1. Includes actual employer contributions and actuarially imputed employer contributions to reflect benefits accrued by defined benefit pension plan participants through service to employers in the current period.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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Reagan had a double dip recession, double digit inflation, double digit interest rates and a Cold War to fight.
It's true, Reagan added $1.8 trillion to the debt, won the Cold War and had awesome GDP growth.

Obama added $9.3 trillion to the debt, lost Iraq, Syria and Libya and had sucky GDP growth.


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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The soviets defeated themselves.  Communism doesn't work.


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## francoHFW (Apr 6, 2017)

OP- Balderdash BS, for dupes only. Could we possibly tax the greedy idiot racist GOP rich and giant corps their fair share so we could do something for the ruined nonrich and and our pathetic infrastructure for the first time in 35 years?


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## francoHFW (Apr 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
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Reagan almost tripled the debt, started incredibly stupid ME chaos with his pal Saddam, and left Booosh a corrupt S+L mega bubble. We're lucky he didn't bring back Soviet hard liners with his bs bluster. Thank god for Gorby. Then 35 years legacy of pander to the rich ruin of the middle class and our infrastructure, dupes. And the bs New BS GOP propaganda machine and the zombie racist GOP. That obstructed the Obama recovery for no reason but hate.


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## BluesLegend (Apr 6, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> OP- Balderdash BS, for dupes only. Could we possibly tax the greedy idiot racist GOP rich and giant corps their fair share so we could do something for the ruined nonrich and and our pathetic infrastructure for the first time in 35 years?



The rich already pay the lions share of the taxes and more than their fair share. FACT!


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## francoHFW (Apr 6, 2017)

BluesLegend said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > OP- Balderdash BS, for dupes only. Could we possibly tax the greedy idiot racist GOP rich and giant corps their fair share so we could do something for the ruined nonrich and and our pathetic infrastructure for the first time in 35 years?
> ...


Only in dupe world, dupe.





That's pathetic. And why they basically get all the new wealth and you dupes feel sick...


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## francoHFW (Apr 6, 2017)

BluesLegend said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > OP- Balderdash BS, for dupes only. Could we possibly tax the greedy idiot racist GOP rich and giant corps their fair share so we could do something for the ruined nonrich and and our pathetic infrastructure for the first time in 35 years?
> ...


DUHHHHH. Dupe.
*The Demise of the American Middle Class In Numbers.*

Over the past 35 years the American dream has gradually disappeared. The process was slow, so most people didn’t notice. They just worked a few more hours, borrowed a little more and cut back on non-essentials. But looking at the numbers and comparing them over long time periods, it is obvious that things have changed drastically. Here are the details:

*1. WORKERS PRODUCE MORE BUT THE GAINS GO TO BUSINESS.*

Over the past 63 years worker productivity has grown by 2.0% per year.

But after 1980, workers received a smaller share every year. Labor’s share of income (1992 = 100%):

1950 = 101%
1960 = 105%
1970 = 105%
1980 = 105%  – Reagan
1990 = 100%
2000 =  96%
2007 =  92%

*A 13% drop since 1980*

*2. THE TOP 10% GET A LARGER SHARE.*

Share of National Income going to Top 10%:

1950 = 35%
1960 = 34%
1970 = 34%
1980 = 34% – Reagan
1990 = 40%
2000 = 47%
2007 = 50%

*An increase of 16% since Reagan.*

*3. WORKERS COMPENSATED FOR THE LOSS OF INCOME BY SPENDING THEIR SAVINGS.*

The savings Rose up to Reagan and fell during and after.

1950 = 6.0%
1960 = 7.0%
1970 = 8.5%
1980 = 10.0% – Reagan
1982 = 11.2% – Peak
1990 = 7.0%
2000 = 2.0%
2006 = -1.1% (Negative = withdrawing from savings)

*A 12.3% drop after Reagan.*

*4. WORKERS ALSO BORROWED TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS.*

Household Debt as percentage of GDP:

1965 = 46%
1970 = 45%
1980 = 50% – Reagan
1990 = 61%
2000 = 69%
2007 = 95%

A 45% increase after 1980.

*5. SO THE GAP BETWEEN THE RICHEST AND THE POOREST HAS GROWN.*

Gap Between the Share of Capital Income earned by the top 1%
and the bottom 80%:

1980 = 10%
2003 = 56%

*A 5.6 times increase.*

*6. AND THE AMERICAN DREAM IS GONE.*

The Probably of Moving Up from the Bottom 40% to the Top 40%:

1945 = 12%
1958 =  6%
1990 =  3%
2000 =  2%

*A 10% Decrease.*

Links:

1 = ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/pf/totalf1.txt
1 = https://www.clevelandfed.org/Research/PolicyDis/No7Nov04.pdf
1 = Clipboard01.jpg (image)
2 – http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/blog/09/04/27/CongratulationstoEmmanuelSaez/
3 = http://www.demos.org/inequality/images/charts/uspersonalsaving_thumb.gif
3 = U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)
4 = http://www.prudentbear.com/index.php/household-sector-debt-of-gdp
4 = http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/current/
5/6 = http://www.businessinsider.com/15-c...lity-in-america-2010-4?slop=1#slideshow-start

Overview = http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010062415/reagan-revolution-home-roost-charts


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## BluesLegend (Apr 6, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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The top 10% pay 61% of the taxes you moron, its on your own chart.


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## BluesLegend (Apr 6, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> BluesLegend said:
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I earn several hundred thousand, what exactly is the problem?


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## Brain357 (Apr 6, 2017)

BluesLegend said:


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Of course they do, nobody else has income to pay.


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## BluesLegend (Apr 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> BluesLegend said:
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Stop huffing drugs and booze and blowing your money on hookers.


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## JBond (Apr 6, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Redfish said:
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> > rightwinger said:
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Yep...every city should strive for literacy rates equal to the NYC school system. 

Shocker: 80% of NYC graduates unable to read


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## francoHFW (Apr 6, 2017)

BluesLegend said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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No they pay 19.7%, 20.6, and 21.1%. of their income in fed taxes. It's basically a flat tax for everyone who makes money if you count all taxes. All from the top 3 quintiles pay about 29%, with many in the middle class paying more %wise than the very richest. Sad. And a GOP joke on you dupes.


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## francoHFW (Apr 6, 2017)

BluesLegend said:


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The rest of us. What are you, a drug dealer? lol


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## francoHFW (Apr 7, 2017)

JBond said:


> Dragonlady said:
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> > Redfish said:
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They probably can read chinese and spanish better- irrellevant...GOP national policy the last 35 years has been killing the nonrich and our infrastructure, and inner cities suffer the worst DUHHH.


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## Muhammed (Apr 7, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > With how fast the middle class is shrinking you should be concerned for everyone.  I don't hear real answers from either party.
> ...


Unions create middle class jobs.


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## Markle (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> You say our economy is dead in the water



Yes, the economy has been dead for the past eight years.


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## Markle (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Really? What president ever handled recession while dealing with 2 wars?



Which, petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama made dangerously worse.


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## Markle (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Do you agree there is more than enough wealth to go around.



It doesn't go around like the green bean casserole on Thanksgiving.  The wealth expands.  My making $250,000 a year takes nothing from you.


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## Markle (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Doesn't Costco do what you say is impossible?
> 
> Costco Will Raise Minimum Wage as Competition for Workers Grows



As does Walmart and any other business which needs more employees.  Nothing left for the government to do.


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## Markle (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> That is funny. Reagan had no wars and started our debt problem.



He had an out of control cold war and the infamous economy of President Carter.  YOU don't remember 14% inflation and 18+% 30-year mortgage rates but I do.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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I avoided  nothing.  I'm trying to explain to you how company profits have nothing to do  with employee pay, but you wish to  stay  in your own world  believing otherwise.  

You on the left have this belief that companies look at this pile of money and then try to  figure how to divide it  up.  Business doesn't  work that way.  An employee is only  worth as much as  the next  person willing to do the  same quality of work.  

If you sweep floors for a living and make ten bucks an hour, you are only worth ten bucks an hour whether  your company grosses one  million a year or one hundred million a year.  It doesn't matter how much they make.  You're still only worth  ten  bucks  an hour.


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## Brain357 (Apr 7, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > That is funny. Reagan had no wars and started our debt problem.
> ...



The Cold War isn't a real war.  How many died?  The soviets defeated themselves, communism does not work.


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## Brain357 (Apr 7, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
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And yet ceos make way more than they are worth and that makes you happy.  Please provide a link supporting your claim that high profits don't allow for high pay for workers.

I'm amazed by the support for losing from the right.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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Why are you reading things in my post that I didn't say?   Where did I state that higher profits preclude higher pay for workers?   I never said that.  

What I said is that profits are irrelevant to employee pay.  If you are only worth X amount of money for your work, then that's all you're worth regardless of what the company makes or what they pay their CEO.  That is unless you have profit sharing as a benefit.   


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## Brain357 (Apr 7, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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So we have had soaring profits which would allow for better wages.  That is my point.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 7, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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*Reagan almost tripled the debt,*

I know. Reagan added $1.8 trillion. Awful! Obama added $9.3 trillion, no big deal, eh?


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## Brain357 (Apr 7, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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Obama didn't triple it.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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I know, he only added $9.3 trillion.
Made things worse in the middle east and gave us the weakest recovery in at least 70 years.


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## Brain357 (Apr 7, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
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Reagan and his voodoo economics created our debt problems.  The Middle East mess was made worse by Bush.   Could have easily turned into a depression, I'll take a recovery.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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*
Reagan and his voodoo economics created our debt problems.*

Reagan rebuilt the military and won the Cold War. Shrunk government as % of GDP.
Freed hundreds of millions from Communism. And look at real GDP.





Obama took a stable Iraq....fucked it up. Lost Egypt and Libya.
Thank goodness the military kicked out his buddy Morsi.
Added $9.3 trillion to the debt and had crappy GDP.





Is there anything Obama was good at? I mean besides wrecking race relations?


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## Brain357 (Apr 7, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
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Turned around a recession.   Lowered unemployment.  Got us through the housing bubble.  Saved the auto industry.  Didn't start any new wars.  We were in much better shape when he left than when he started.  But that is the same for Reagan.  Both had good with bad.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> > Brain357 said:
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Reagan had nothing to do with DumBama's debt.   He created it all on his own.  


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## Brain357 (Apr 7, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
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He was handed a balanced budget?  Really?  Bush was.  Please link how Obama was handed a balanced budget.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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That's why you don't understand business.  Wages are not tied to profits or success unless you have profit sharing.   If your company is doing well, you can exercise your option to buy stock in the company if you wish to share in their good fortunes.   But in most cases,  you get paid a certain wage for your particular job no matter how the company does.   


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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*Didn't start any new wars.*

Yeah, great job with ISIS. $9.3 trillion more debt. Shitty recovery.


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## Brain357 (Apr 7, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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Sorry but it's a fact, plenty of profits for high wages.  You don't understand labor.  If Walmart paid more they would have a better business.  But hey you are defeated.  The best we can do is hope to keep bad jobs.  Loser mentality.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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*Turned around a recession.*

Bullshit. The recession ended in June 2009.
He had nothing to do with it. He certainly owns the weak recovery though.


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## Brain357 (Apr 7, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
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How long should a country deep in debt have paid to police Iraq?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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Way to make things much worse. A real money saver that was. DERP!


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## Brain357 (Apr 7, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
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I understand you are a complete moron and partisan hack if you can't see the country was way better off after Obama.


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## Brain357 (Apr 7, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
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You are great at dodging questions.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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Duh. Recession then recovery.
Weakest in at least 70 years.
$9.3 trillion, that's about 50% of GDP, more debt!!!!!

What a failure.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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And you're great at ignoring his many failures.
Do you think he saved money by withdrawing from Iraq like he did?


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## Brain357 (Apr 7, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
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Sorry but you haven't answered my question.  I don't have time for your dodging.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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The answer is, as long as it takes. Moron!

Keep explaining how Obama's weak ass recovery was so awesome.


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## Brain357 (Apr 7, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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So indefinitely we pay to police Iraq.  Amazing.


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## danielpalos (Apr 7, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
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Administrative law is subject to the supreme law of the land of the State, and any necessary and proper statutes legislated by your elected representatives to office.  



> *Yes, Illinois really is an employment-at-will state.* To that point, Illinois courts follow the employment-at-will legal doctrine in deciding "discharge cases."
> 
> "Employment at will" means there is *mutual freedom by both the employer and the employee* *to end the employment relationship*....Yes, Illinois is Still an Employment-At-Will State! | Wessels Sherman Joerg Liszka Laverty Seneczko P.C.


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## danielpalos (Apr 7, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
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yup.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
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So Walmart and all it's success doesn't know of your little secret?  Sorry, but why don't I believe that?   

I'll tell you why, it's because the unions told Democrat leaders to spread the word around that all Walmart jobs are low paying garbage jobs.  What they don't tell you is Walmart offers the best possibility for advancement.  Low level Walmart jobs pay the same as Target or K-Mart.  Walmart pays their management pretty well, they pay their truck drivers pretty well, they pay their office staff pretty well, they pay their warehouse people pretty well.  

Don't believe Democrat politicians, they are all born liars.  

As for what a company pays their employees, yes they could pay better wages, but why should they?  They can get the same work done for less money and keep their investments attractive at the same time.  


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## Brain357 (Apr 7, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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I think they are starting to get it, they have recently made improvements. 

So yes they could pay more, thank you.  Now do you agree this would strengthen the economy?  Imagine people having more to spend.  Imagine fewer on welfare.  Imagine more people paying income tax and appreciating the ideas of small gov and lower taxes.


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## Redfish (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
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so if walmart pays its employees more,  what happens next?   They have to raise prices.  When they raise prices they sell less stuff.  When they sell less stuff they don't need as many employees.  So the end result is more people collecting unemployment. 

economics is not complicated.


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## Brain357 (Apr 7, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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You are jumping ahead.  One step at a time please.  Remember there are plenty of profits to pay more.  You don't think more people making good money is good?  You don't think the economy would grow?  You want people dependent on government?

Let's stop the loser attitude and discuss what would really help people out of poverty and grow the economy.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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How much did we save thanks to Obama's stupid early withdrawal?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 7, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> > danielpalos said:
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_In order to be eligible for Illinois unemployment benefits you must meet the following standards:
_
It's weird, none of the standards is, "I just don't want to work"


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 7, 2017)

danielpalos said:


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I wish you could back up your claim....but you can't


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
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> > Brain357 said:
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*Remember there are plenty of profits to pay more.*

Compare WalMart's profit to the money they currently pay employees.
Get back to us.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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> > Brain357 said:
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Walmart's job is not to improve the economy.    That's not why they started their business.  Walmart opened up to sell goods and services for a profit.   That's it.  


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## Brain357 (Apr 7, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
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So now you are completely dodging questions.   Can you just answer the question?


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## Brain357 (Apr 7, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
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It's like you wouldn't want a strong economy.


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## Brain357 (Apr 7, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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> > Redfish said:
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Why Wal-Mart can afford to give its workers a 50% raise


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## danielpalos (Apr 7, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
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don't like being legal to a federal doctrine and your own State laws?


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## danielpalos (Apr 7, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
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> > Toddsterpatriot said:
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Capitalism failed in 1929.  Hoover was replaced with the more socialist FDR, and his brand of socialism, to bailout capitalism.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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> > Brain357 said:
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And why is that, because you want to feel like you're absolutely right?  You don't want to hear anything but "yes" or "no" because elaborating would piss on your parade?   You just want to read or hear what you want and go no further.   

That's fine if you want a myopic view on everything, but you learn and understand more if you look at the entire picture.  

As to your question, yes the economy would be better if people had more money.  What does that have to do with the price of rice in China?   If you think you are making a point, then make it already.   


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## Brain357 (Apr 7, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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The point is that if we agree profits would allow it and it would in fact be good for the economy and country it can done.  Shouldn't the  real only question be how?  You seem so sold on there is nothing that can fix the problems.  I think there are many answers, but the goal must first be defined.  Shall we move forward on the how?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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Thanks for the link.
_
Wal-Mart paid its top executives and board members $66.7 million last year. The rest of the money has to be split among Wal-Mart's remaining roughly 2.2 million employees. Of those, about 1.4 million work in the U.S. Assume that Wal-Mart spends about 2/3 of that on the salaries of its U.S. employees, because salaries are generally higher here. That leaves $66.6 billion for the U.S. workers, or $47,593.
_
Now the question is, what did they actually pay their employees in 2012?

How much less than $66.6 billion?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 7, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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Not paying you unemployment is perfectly legal.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 7, 2017)

danielpalos said:


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Capitalism: an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.

You'll have to explain why you feel it failed.


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## francoHFW (Apr 7, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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Heard of inflation? Reagan added 1.8 in "good times". That's how we got good times, a sham. Obama's debt was 80-90% averting a depression and helping the victims. Great job, GOP. DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.


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## francoHFW (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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Reagan was a sham by '89. S+L bubble, huge debt.


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## francoHFW (Apr 7, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
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Gorbechev did that, dupe.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 7, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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*Heard of inflation?*

Inflation that was over 13% in 1980 and dropped to less than 2% in 1986?
Yes, I've heard of it you silly moron.
*
Reagan added 1.8 in "good times".*

You can say that just because it was good times after the massive economic growth of his 2 terms.

*Obama's debt was 80-90% averting a depression*

Hey, silly person, the recession was over in June 2009.
Why did he continue to add trillions to the debt when the economy went positive so quickly?
Reagan added $1.8 trillion and GDP was $ 5.3 trillion in 1988.
Obama added $9.3 trillion and GDP was  $18.6 trillion in 2016.

Every way you look at it, compared to Reagan, Obama pretty much sucked.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 7, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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After Reagan beat them, Gorbachev is the one who surrendered.


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## francoHFW (Apr 7, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
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Reagan inspired pander to the rich policies of W Bush, who started the corrupt WORLD DEPRESSION OF 2008, which dupes like you haven't HEARD OF. lol


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## francoHFW (Apr 7, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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The debt was up to 800 billion/month for UE and welfare for victims of the DEPRESSION, no fault of Obama's. It's still 1-200 billion NOW. Reagan also started the disgraceful GOP propaganda machine which has produced a nation of ignorant fools.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 7, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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*The debt was up to 800 billion/month*

You failed math, didn't you?

*Reagan also started the disgraceful GOP propaganda machine which has produced a nation of ignorant fools*

It's Reagan's fault that you're an idiot? That's funny.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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It sure isn't Walmart overpaying their employees.  

The "How" is easy.  Work more hours or get a job that pays  more.  That's how.  I've been doing  it my entire life as have some of my friends and family.


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## Brain357 (Apr 7, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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You really are just defeated.  No real interest in improvement.  I guess slow economic growth and growing government independence is just your thing.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 7, 2017)

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No, it's called living in reality.  

I  know what  our past was.   I know  how it was formed, and  I know why it died.  I also know there is nothing you can do to bring it back.  Automation  and  robots are not going to melt and never return.  Overseas wages are not going to increase to such a point there will be no place  to manufacture but the USA.   American consumers  are not going  to change their priorities.  Investors are not going to settle for lower profits.  

When you can come to terms with those realities, only then will you be able to understand  you can't  turn the clock back.  All you can  do is put the  cards  on the table, look them over, and then make  plans  for the future.


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## Brain357 (Apr 7, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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Yes completely defeated.  Not very American.

When do you expect the end?  We continue on this course and the debt will kill us.


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## Brain357 (Apr 7, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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There is over 300 billion in corp taxes collected.  That is more than enough to lift low income workers out of welfare.  Why not come up with a tax structure that gives incentive for corps to pay more in return for tax breaks?   This would cut out the government, boost the economy and decrease welfare.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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*There is over 300 billion in corp taxes collected. That is more than enough to lift low income workers out of welfare.*

How many low income workers are you trying to lift out of welfare?

*Why not come up with a tax structure that gives incentive for corps to pay more in return for tax breaks?* 

At the current tax rate, a corporation would reduce their taxes by 35 cents for every dollar in added payroll expense. Are you talking about a larger reduction? How large?

*This would cut out the government, boost the economy and decrease welfare.*

Why would it boost the economy?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 7, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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No, because what you are  talking about is subsidizing lower income jobs.  If we were  going  to go down that  road, I would sooner have government subsidize  business for providing  healthcare insurance to their employees if anything.  Many of us lost our health  insurance with  the passage  of Commie Care.  

Another problem  is welfare people know how to  scam  the system.  They are experts at it.  Increase their wages, and they will work less hours to keep government  goodies coming in.  There have been  reports of this in cities that adopted  huge minimum wage increases.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 7, 2017)

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So creating  more debt will help?  

I don't know what's going to happen  in the future.  I'm  glad I'll be off this planet (or at the very least, retired) before that happens.  Manual labor jobs are being replaced by robots and automation.  Even fast food restaurants are purchasing  self-serve kiosks to have customers place orders and pay for their food.  Down the road, those robots will be pouring your drinks, making your french fries, and even creating  the hamburger  you're going to eat.  The entire restaurant will be run by one or two humans.  

Automation is becoming cheaper and labor is becoming more expensive.  I don't see the  advantage of making  labor so expensive that automation is the best investment for the future.  JC Pennies closed down hundreds of stores.  So did Game Stop recently.  They are joining  the  many stores closing in the country because  of internet sales.  What are we supposed to do with the thousands  of Americans that used  to work  in these  stores? 

Thinking of being a cab driver?  How about working  for Uber?  Well, those are  short-term incomes, because  in  the near future, cabs and  Uber  vehicles will be manless vehicles.  You summons a car, swipe your credit card or debit card, and the  vehicle will magically drive  you to  the  destination you entered in  the computer system of the vehicle.  

It's very frightening.  I  don't know what the answer  is. But I do  know that forcing  industry to overpay manual  labor will only speed up this  disaster.


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## danielpalos (Apr 7, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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being legal to our own laws, is more legal and less hypocritical.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 7, 2017)

danielpalos said:


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And that's why you'll get no unemployment benefits.


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## Redfish (Apr 8, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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I don't want people dependent on the government, that's what you dems and libs want.  

As to the amount of profit available to raise wages,  you know nothing about the grocery and fast food industry if you think they are high profit businesses.   Walmart makes on volume, not individual item mark up.   Most grocery stores are in the 2-3% profit range. 

Now, if you want to talk profit rates, look up what big pharma is making, look at Apple and Google and Facebook.  

You don't fix the economy by raising minimum wage, that's a proven fact.


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## danielpalos (Apr 8, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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it needs to be litigated.  A federal doctrine and State laws are more supreme than administrative law.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 8, 2017)

danielpalos said:


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You should sue!
I'm sure plenty of lawyers would love to take your case pro bono.
Let me know how it turns out.


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## Brain357 (Apr 8, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
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So shouldn't you be for lowering corporate taxes while getting people off welfare?  Our current road is just growing dependence.


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## Brain357 (Apr 8, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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Getting people off welfare and creating more tax payers will decrease debt.

If automation is your big fear it would be very easy to tax it so it is not profitable.


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## danielpalos (Apr 8, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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I already have a claim upon the State regarding redress of grievances.


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## Redfish (Apr 8, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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yes, for lowering corporate tax rates.  Yes, for closing loopholes in the tax code.  yes, for creating new jobs and getting people off UE and welfare.  No, for raising the minimum wage.   Yes, for letting supply and demand set the price of labor.  Yes, for securing our borders and keeping illegals from taking American jobs,  Yes, for fining employers that hire illegals.


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## Redfish (Apr 8, 2017)

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someone has to design, build, and maintain the robots.     you want to put a tax on progress, how liberal of you.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 8, 2017)

danielpalos said:


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I'm breathless with anticipation.....


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 8, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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If that's the way we're going to handle things, then should't we tax cars so it's cheaper to go horse  and buggy?  Shouldn't we have a huge tax on refrigerators since not having them will create jobs by bringing back ice men to deliver blocks of ice to your home?  How about a huge tax on backhoes because they replaced ditch diggers?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 8, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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Replace backhoes with teaspoons.


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## Markle (Apr 8, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> And yet ceos make way more than they are worth and that makes you happy.



Those CEO's are worth exactly what they are paid.  Just as you are paid what you are worth and the same for me.


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## Markle (Apr 8, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> How long should a country deep in debt have paid to police Iraq?



Another major SNAFU on the part of petulant former President Obama.


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## Markle (Apr 8, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Capitalism failed in 1929. Hoover was replaced with the more socialist FDR, and his brand of socialism, to bailout capitalism.



How long did the depression of 1920/21 last?

The Socialist policies of FDR extended the Great Depression for seven years.  How was that a good thing?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 8, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > How long should a country deep in debt have paid to police Iraq?
> ...



His concern about the debt is shown by his $9.3 trillion addition to it.
It would have been $11- $12 trillion without the Republican sequester slowing his free spending ways.


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## danielpalos (Apr 8, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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Because we needed more socialism to bailout lazy, laissez-fair capitalism.


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## danielpalos (Apr 8, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Capitalism failed in 1929. Hoover was replaced with the more socialist FDR, and his brand of socialism, to bailout capitalism.
> ...


Why did a Great Depression happen in the first place, with more, rather than less, laissez-fair capitalism?

It was simply, lousy economic management.  We didn't have the understanding of economics then, we have now.  

What actually ended the Great Depression, but the socialism of a wartime economy on a wartime footing.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 8, 2017)

danielpalos said:


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The banking system failed, capitalism worked (and works) just fine.


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## regent (Apr 8, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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So the answer was regulation of the banking system?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 8, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Markle said:
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*Why did a Great Depression happen in the first place, with more, rather than less, laissez-fair capitalism?*

Economic booms and busts are part of human nature.

*It was simply, lousy economic management.*

The fact that you think government control would give better economic management is funny.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 8, 2017)

regent said:


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Partially. More importantly is a central bank that adds liquidity during a crisis, rather than withdrawing liquidity.


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## Brain357 (Apr 8, 2017)

Redfish said:


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Glad we agree on much of that.


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## regent (Apr 8, 2017)

Is the central bank a part of the government or does the government just tell the bank to add? Is adding a form of Keynes?


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## Brain357 (Apr 8, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > And yet ceos make way more than they are worth and that makes you happy.
> ...




Highest-Paid CEOs Run Some of the Worst-Performing Companies


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## Brain357 (Apr 8, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
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Pretty sure there is much more labor involved in car over buggies.  Ice men were replaced by refrigerator manufacturing.  How many ditch diggers lost out?

If you think automation is the problem I simply gave you an easy answer.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 8, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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CEO's are contract people.  People that work under contract have different parameters than those of us that work  hourly or salary. 

CEO's  get hired  and fired all the time.  They are constantly relocating to different cities and states.  

If you get a famous actress and she gets 15 million  for a movie, it doesn't matter whether the movie is a flop or a hit.  She still gets her 15 million. 

If a recording company signs a deal with a famous band for 10 million that in the past, sold a lot of recordings, but this recording was a flop, they still get their 10 million for writing and recording the songs. 

That's the way it works  with contracts.  Contracts are used for CEO's, entertainment, and even sports people.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 8, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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My question is do we slow down or even halt advancements because  those advancements take jobs away?  And what if we did do that the  last 50 years or so?  Would we have cell phones today, cable or satellite television, home video  games?   

You're never going to be able to tax something so high that it won't  be worth the investment.  Human  labor and benefits are only going to continue increasing, and even more so as liberal cities and states force industry to overpay their labor.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 8, 2017)

Democrats use black people to get themselves elected and then forget about them after they are elected, Obama used blacks to get elected and then did nothing for them, except use them to create conflict in America.


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## Brain357 (Apr 8, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
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So they perform poorly and are overpaid.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 8, 2017)

regent said:


> Is the central bank a part of the government or does the government just tell the bank to add? Is adding a form of Keynes?



*Is the central bank a part of the government*

Yes.

*Is adding a form of Keynes?*

Keynesian economics includes Monetary policy.


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## Brain357 (Apr 8, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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It's easy to argue automating service is the work of the devil.  Automated phone customer service for example.


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## regent (Apr 8, 2017)

Why haven't Republicans passed a law that everyone must have a job and work? We have been letting Americans get away with not working since the Constitution, was ratified; time Republicans changed that.


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## Brain357 (Apr 8, 2017)

Why CEOs Make So Much Money

CEOs are like kings. They aren't elected to their position, they are appointed. Usually after several years of grueling internecine political warfare, back-stabbing colleagues and gerrymandering the organization. Once in the position, they pretty much get to set their own pay.


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## regent (Apr 8, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > Is the central bank a part of the government or does the government just tell the bank to add? Is adding a form of Keynes?
> ...


So if the government pumps money into the economy as in WWII is that a form of Keynes?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 8, 2017)

regent said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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Keynes was a person, so no, pumping money into the economy is not a form of Keynes.

LMGTFY


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## Papageorgio (Apr 8, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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Performing poorly and being overpaid is pretty common in the workforce.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 8, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Why CEOs Make So Much Money
> 
> CEOs are like kings. They aren't elected to their position, they are appointed. Usually after several years of grueling internecine political warfare, back-stabbing colleagues and gerrymandering the organization. Once in the position, they pretty much get to set their own pay.



Yep, that's very true.  They make the  money they do because not many are able to perform the way they can.

A few  years ago I purchased a new big screen.  I'm not much of a television  watcher, but I became one.  I started to watch the show Big Bang Theory, and got interested in the cast.  So I looked them up on the internet.

Turns  out these are very wealthy people.  They each get one million dollars per episode plus cuts when their shows get rerun and various other perks.  It's a half-hour show.  Take out the commercials, it's  about 20  minutes.  There are about eight or nine major players in the show, so how long could each one act, 2 to 5 minutes?????

I'm sure some of them put a lot of time  into their career, took some risks, obviously have talents, but compared to a CEO that went  through college, worked his or her  way up the ladder, making business relationships, making political relationships, moving from town to town, yet they make a fraction of the money some in the entertainment field do, yet nobody on the left ever comments yet alone complains about the money actors make.


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## danielpalos (Apr 8, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
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Great Depressions only happen under laissez-fair capitalism, not socialism.


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## danielpalos (Apr 8, 2017)

regent said:


> Is the central bank a part of the government or does the government just tell the bank to add? Is adding a form of Keynes?


Yes, monetary policy via a central bank is merely command economics of fiscal policy, implemented via monetary policy through a central bank.


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## danielpalos (Apr 8, 2017)

regent said:


> Why haven't Republicans passed a law that everyone must have a job and work? We have been letting Americans get away with not working since the Constitution, was ratified; time Republicans changed that.


Especially in Right to Work, States.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 8, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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People have too much freedom to make their own decisions.
Kill the greedy kulaks, eh comrade?

How's that awesome socialist economy in Venezuela?
Must be great with no capitalism anywhere.


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## ScienceRocks (Apr 8, 2017)

Why do republican want black people to live under bridges and on street corners?

Why not fund education and make adding additional job making skills easier...Oh'noo''s we can't do that as that would mean the big bad government....Give me a break.


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## ScienceRocks (Apr 8, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
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Take a political science class as you don't know shit...How's that awesome social democratic south Korean, Germany or British economy doing is more like it...Venezuela is a dicatorship of one man at the top with little political power for the people...You really fucking think I want to fuck over the little guy with idiotic policies like in Venezuela? Lol....NO, I want that 50, 60 thousand per capita in much of western europe that has worked for decades.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 8, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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Sorry but you are wrong. Socialism is a failure where ever it has been. Socialism depends on no greed, man is inherently greedy. Socialism always has the elite.


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## Brain357 (Apr 8, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Why CEOs Make So Much Money
> ...



Being overpaid is probably the only thing those two have in common.  The ceo at the television station makes the decision that they are making enough money off the show to pay the actors what they get.  If the show isn't good it gets cancelled.

CEO's are giving themselves large raises.  The complaints come because he is giving himself much larger raises than everyone else.  And the feeling is a company only has so much for compensation and the CEO is taking so much the people doing the real work get very little.  A ceo with good people below him can get away with doing very little.


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## Brain357 (Apr 8, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
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What do you call the Scandinavian countries?  They do quite well and some say they have a form of socialism.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 8, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
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They are not socialist countries, please read up on what socialism is, Socialism is the prohibition of an elite, Scandinavian countries have an elite class. The disqualifies them from being true socialists.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 8, 2017)

Matthew said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
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*How's that awesome social democratic south Korean
*
South Korea that has much lower government spending than us is socialist? 

*NO, I want that 50, 60 thousand per capita in much of western Europe*

Germany is only $48,200.
France, $42,400.
Belgium, $44,900.
Maybe you mean the UK?
$42,500

When you stop being such a stupid twat, maybe you'll be able to add something to the conversation? LOL!


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## regent (Apr 8, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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Many economies such as the United States have a mixed economy capitalism and socialism, and maybe even a dash of communism and a light sprinkling of fascism. Can anyone name a pure economy today, might be one or two.


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## Markle (Apr 8, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> His concern about the debt is shown by his $9.3 trillion addition to it.
> It would have been $11- $12 trillion without the Republican sequester slowing his free spending ways.



It has cost far more going back in and trying to crush ISIS and the situation we now have in Syria.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 8, 2017)

regent said:


> Brain357 said:
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I agree with you 100%.


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## Brain357 (Apr 8, 2017)

regent said:


> Brain357 said:
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> > Papageorgio said:
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I agree with you.  Many however seem to think the US is pure capitalism while all of Europe is all socialism.


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## Markle (Apr 8, 2017)

regent said:


> Many economies such as the United States have a mixed economy capitalism and socialism



Do you know the definition of Socialism?

What do you claim is Socialism in the United States.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 8, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
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> ...



And  right there you hit the nail on the head.  You actually believe that  a CEO is taking pay away from  other workers.  There  is no truth to that.  

It's just like with the acting.  How much do you think their hair people  make?  How about their makeup people?  How about the stage  hands?  What about the people who actually create the episodes or write the jokes for the show?  Do you believe any of them are  near the pay scale of the  actors themselves?   And if  you paid the  actors less, would all those  other people get more  money?  

I used to know a guy who was  a drummer.  Not bad drummer, but certainly not one of the  best I've ever seen.  Because his  love was  music, he became a roadie for a somewhat  famous band.  Yeah, he traveled around with them, set  up and tore down the equipment, met a lot of interesting people, a lot of beautiful girls, but the job didn't pay squat.  He would have made out better working here at McDonald's.  The musicians of the band?  Very wealthy and living the good life.  

People get paid what they are  worth.  In other words, your worth to an employer is only as much as the next  person willing to do the same job with the same quality.  It doesn't matter if you're a CEO or a floor sweeper. If you are not bringing in money or contributing more than you get paid by a company, a company has no use for you.  

CEO pay?  If a CEO has a track record of increasing revenue of companies by 35%, then you pay that  CEO what he wants or  your  competitor will and take business away from your company.  That's just how it works.


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## Markle (Apr 8, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Why did a Great Depression happen in the first place, with more, rather than less, laissez-fair capitalism?
> 
> It was simply, lousy economic management. We didn't have the understanding of economics then, we have now.
> 
> What actually ended the Great Depression, but the socialism of a wartime economy on a wartime footing.



You failed to answer the question I asked.  How long did the depression of 1920 last?

A normal economy ebbs and flows.  Trying to spend your way out of it extends the recessions/depressions.  Japan has been trying to do that for decades and it did not work.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 8, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> regent said:
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Why did you bring up Scandinavian countries then? Just throwing out crap and seeing what sticks?


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## Brain357 (Apr 8, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
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Certainly the ceo is taking a big cut of payroll.

The actors are not deciding any of the pay.  The CEO of the television station is deciding what to pay the actors and the makeup people.  That is the difference and it obviously is a big one.  The CEO is deciding his own pay, the actor is dependent on the CEO giving him/her that pay.

Again, that is not at all true with CEO's. 
Why CEOs Make So Much Money


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## Brain357 (Apr 8, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


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Due to the confusion.  Without asking I don't know if your somebody who thinks all of Europe is socialism or not.


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## Markle (Apr 8, 2017)

Matthew said:


> Why do republican want black people to live under bridges and on street corners?
> 
> Why not fund education and make adding additional job making skills easier...Oh'noo''s we can't do that as that would mean the big bad government....Give me a break.



Why do you believe that blacks must have their education funded and make "job making skills easier" than for other races and ethnic groups?  How is that NOT racist and bigoted?


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## Brain357 (Apr 8, 2017)

Excessive CEO Pay for Dumb Luck

The compensation packages of the chief executive officers of America have been rising faster than just about any rational metric upon which they are supposedly based. “CEO pay grew an astounding 943% over the past 37 years,” according to a recent Economic Policy Institute analysis. EPI further observes this was a far faster growth rate than “the cost of living, the productivity of the economy, and the stock market.”

CEO compensation isn’t the pay for performance its advocates claim. Instead, it is unmoored from any rational basis. This makes it an inappropriate wealth transfer from shareholders to management.


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## danielpalos (Apr 8, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
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Mogadishu had no taxes and virtually no regulations for over a decade; how many fortune five hundred firms, relocated there?


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## danielpalos (Apr 8, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
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You don't know what socialism is.  The US has a mixed-market economy.  Socialism is like Palmolive, you are soaking in it.


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## Markle (Apr 8, 2017)

Matthew said:


> Take a political science class as you don't know shit...How's that awesome social democratic south Korean, Germany or British economy doing is more like it...Venezuela is a dicatorship of one man at the top with little political power for the people...You really fucking think I want to fuck over the little guy with idiotic policies like in Venezuela? Lol....*NO, I want that 50, 60 thousand per capita in much of western europe that has worked for decades.*




Oops...Great Britain:  In 2012-13, median income was approximately £21,000 a year but varies considerably by age, location, data source and occupation.

£1.00 = $1.24 so £21,000 equals $26,040.  Not quite $60,000  per capita.  Do you want their taxes too?

*Income in the United Kingdom*
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In terms of global poverty criteria, the United Kingdom is a wealthy country, with virtually no people living on less than £10 a day. In 2012-13, median income was approximately £21,000 a year but varies considerably by age, location, data source and occupation. [1] There is both significant income redistribution and income inequality; for instance, in 2013/14 income in the top and bottom fifth of households was £80,800 and £5,500, respectively, before taxes and benefits (15:1). After tax and benefits, household income disparities are significantly reduced to £60,000 and £15,500 (4:1).

Income in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia


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## Markle (Apr 8, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> The actors are not deciding any of the pay.



Why then do they have agents?


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## Papageorgio (Apr 8, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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Gotcha, that makes sense. Europe is a mixture as is the US. If the US was pure capitalism, we would not have corporate welfare at all. Which would be fine with me.


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## Markle (Apr 8, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> They are not socialist countries, please read up on what socialism is, Socialism is the prohibition of an elite, Scandinavian countries have an elite class. The disqualifies them from being true socialists.



You are 100 percent correct.  Moreover, Scandinavian countries do have serious economic classes.  Given their massive taxes, they readily admit that whatever class they are born into it is virtually impossible for them to move up.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 8, 2017)

danielpalos said:


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I do know what socialism is. Why do you think I don't?


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## Brain357 (Apr 8, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
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> ...



Not real familiar with the industry, but my understanding is the agents help them find work and negotiate better pay.


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## danielpalos (Apr 8, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
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Nothing but diversion, because you have such knowledge?

The US has a mixed-market economy. Socialism is like Palmolive, you are soaking in it.


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## Brain357 (Apr 8, 2017)

Markle said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > They are not socialist countries, please read up on what socialism is, Socialism is the prohibition of an elite, Scandinavian countries have an elite class. The disqualifies them from being true socialists.
> ...



That is counter to everything I have ever seen:
An elasticity of 0.47 found in the United States offers much less likelihood of moving up than an elasticity of 0.18 or less, as characterizes Finland, Norway, and Denmark.

U.S. lags behind peer countries in mobility


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## Markle (Apr 8, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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Why you have a hair up your behind CEO's pay, I have no clue.  Unless you own stock in that company and they're doing a terrible job and your stock is plunging, why do you care?  Sell the stock and buy one with superior management.

In years past CEO's did not receive such lucrative contracts.  For that, you can blame Bill Clinton.  Like you, he wanted to limit the pay for CEO's.  How did that work out?


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## Markle (Apr 8, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> U.S. lags behind peer countries in mobility



BY WALTER E. WILLIAMS
RELEASE: WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 4, 2006, AND THEREAFTER

THE POVERTY HYPE

Despite claims that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, poverty is nowhere near the problem it was yesteryear -- at least for those who want to work. Talk about the poor getting poorer tugs at the hearts of decent people and squares nicely with the agenda of big government advocates, but it doesn't square with the facts.

Dr. Michael Cox, economic adviser to the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas, and Richard Alm, a business reporter for the Dallas Morning News, co-authored a 1999 book, "Myths of Rich and Poor: Why We're Better Off Than We Think," that demonstrates the pure nonsense about the claim that the poor get poorer.

The authors analyzed University of Michigan Panel Study of Income Dynamics data that tracked more than 50,000 individual families since 1968. Cox and Alms found: *Only five percent of families in the bottom income quintile (lowest 20 percent) in 1975 were still there in 1991.*

*Three-quarters of these families had moved into the three highest income quintiles. During the same period, 70 percent of those in the second lowest income quintile moved to a higher quintile, with 25 percent of them moving to the top income quintile. When the Bureau of Census reports, for example, that the poverty rate in 1980 was 15 percent and a decade later still 15 percent, for the most part they are referring to different people.*

Cox and Alm's findings were supported by a U.S. Treasury Department study that used an entirely different data base, income tax returns. *The U.S. Treasury found that 85.8 percent of tax filers in the bottom income quintile in 1979 had moved on to a higher quintile by 1988 -- 66 percent to second and third quintiles and 15 percent to the top quintile. Income mobility goes in the other direction as well. Of the people who were in the top one percent of income earners in 1979, over half, or 52.7 percent, were gone by 1988.* Throughout history and probably in most places today, there are whole classes of people who remain permanently poor or permanently rich, but not in the United States. The percentages of Americans who are permanently poor or rich don't exceed single digits.

It doesn't take rocket science to figure out why people who are poor in one decade are not poor one or two decades later. First, they get older. Would anyone be surprised that 30, 40 or 50-year-olds earn a higher income than 20-year-olds? The 1995 Annual Report of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas found that "Average income tends to rise quickly in life as workers gain work experience and knowledge.

Households headed by someone under age 25 average $15,197 a year in income. Average income more than doubles to $33,124 for 25- to 34-year-olds. For those 35 to 44, the figure jumps to $43,923. It takes time for learning, hard work and saving to bear fruit."

*The Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas report listed a few no-brainer behaviors consistent with upward income mobility. Households in the top income bracket have 2.1 workers; those in the bottom have 0.6 workers. In the lowest income bracket, 84 percent worked part time; in the highest income bracket, 80 percent worked full time. That translates into: Get a full-time job. Only seven percent of top income earners live in a "nonfamily" household compared to 37 percent of the bottom income category. Translation: Get married. At the time of the study, the unemployment rate in McAllen, Texas, was 17.5 percent, while in Austin, Texas, it was 3.5 percent. Translation: If you can't find a job in one locality, move to where there are jobs.*

The Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas report concludes, "Little on this list should come as a surprise. Taken as a whole, it's what most Americans have been told since they were kids -- by society, by their parents, by their teachers."


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 8, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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Your article became very suspicious to me  because  it  seems like it was an opinion of an anti-CEO writer.  

It all  boils  down to the Board of Directors.  the BOD is a group of people elected by the stockholders of a company.  They are not "fellow CEO's" as you suggest, but people  that work within the company or at times, outside.  Either way, they are not a bunch of rich people looking out for each other.  The BOD does their job, or lose the interest of their  investors.  That could cause  them to get voted out next election.  

As  you pointed  out, CEO pay is substantial, so it's up to the BOD to prove to their  clients that  CEO pay is  merited.  CEO pay can help bring  down growth  of a company, so they have to be able to justify to their shareholders that CEO pay is an  investment and not a player in a companies reduction of growth.  

If a CEO is paid twenty millions dollars, but the growth of the company increases by 2% then the CEO  did his or her job and the  BOD made a wise decision.  But if they increase a CEO pay to twenty  million dollars, and the company loses growth, then the company risks losing investors, or the members  of the BOD that gave that CEO that kind of money risk being voted out.  

Board Of Directors - B Of D


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## Brain357 (Apr 8, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > U.S. lags behind peer countries in mobility
> ...



I don't see how that compares our mobility to Scandinavia...


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 8, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
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Brain (and others) are convinced that CEO pay is responsible for others not making better  money in a company.  Therefore if a CEO is making  10 million a year, that's why the floor sweeper is only  making $12.00 an hour.  

They believe that if we could somehow reduce CEO pay drastically, that floor sweeper would be making $18.00 per hour instead.  All other  blue collar workers would receive much  better money as  well. 

It really doesn't work that way, but they think it does.


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## Markle (Apr 8, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Markle said:
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You just said that the actors do not decide any of the pay.  Here you say, "the agents help them find work _*and negotiate better pay."  *_Which is true.  But how can you have it both ways?  Oh, that's right, you're a Progressive!


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## danielpalos (Apr 8, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > U.S. lags behind peer countries in mobility
> ...


Why does the right wing complain about the cost of social services, which makes it possible?


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## danielpalos (Apr 8, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
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Some reports claim compensation is only nominally tied to performance, but no actual tie to performance.


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## Brain357 (Apr 8, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
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No, a BOD really does have lots of CEO's:
2017 Proxy | GE.com

So yes they give the CEO a raise and then get one themselves to keep up with that raise.  You really are blind to how things really work.  The game is obviously rigged.


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## Brain357 (Apr 8, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
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Everyone can negotiate their pay.  But it is dependent on getting their boss to agree.  Same for an actor.  For a CEO they just decide their own pay.  Strange you can't see the difference.  Actors even get help negotiating from an agent.  If they decided their own pay, why would they bother with an agent?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 8, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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If that's what  your really believe, then the solution  to  your problem  is to become a CEO yourself.  

If the BOD does  not do their job effectively, they will lose their power, investors, or both.  Nobody  is going to stay invested in a company with low growth and high paid CEO's.


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## francoHFW (Apr 8, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Markle said:
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In 1955, CEOs made 23 times the workers' pay, 1980, 40x. Then as always with the rich under Reaganism, it skyrocketed, now 300x. The only way to limit it is to raise taxes at higher amounts. Do it. They've lost touch with workers and we could use the money for investment in Americans like the good old days. It's just part of this Reaganist mess, dupes.


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## Brain357 (Apr 8, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
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Just look at the GE board.  You said it is not CEO's, and obviously there are many.  CEOs are just giving themselves raises.  Why do you choose to be so blind even with all the facts proving me right?


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## Brain357 (Apr 8, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Markle said:
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What about when ceo's collude to hold down wages? 
Judge approves $415M settlement in Apple, Google wage case


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## danielpalos (Apr 8, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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I guess they must be socialist; let's ask, Boss or Ding.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 8, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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Your claim  is not right  because you said  that CEO's and  their salary are out of control and not regulated because  the BOD is fixed.  The BOD is selected by shareholders who  value their investment and  would  never  allow any prolonged loss  of their investments.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
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I never said differently, you are obviously unable to comprehend the English language, I hope you one day master it.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
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The BOD does not select the BOD.  They just vote on the CEO who wants to be on their board.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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What I said was that it's the stockholders who vote on the BOD's.


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
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lol.  nothing but diversion?  A mixed-market economy is part socialism and part capitalism.


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## Redfish (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


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is the monopoly that is your power company a socialist endeavor?


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
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it is if it Only exists due to government fiat.  Socialism is supposed to "bailout" capitalism, whenever possible.


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## Markle (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Why does the right wing complain about the cost of social services, which makes it possible?



WOW!  THAT'S what you got from Dr. Williams essay?

Our situation is worse than I thought.


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Why does the right wing complain about the cost of social services, which makes it possible?
> ...


I do not disagree with Dr. Williams assessment; I merely believe it is more about equal protection of the law for the poor, since the rich can afford the finest privileges and immunities money can buy, under our form of capitalism.  It is more about, "free riding" on privileges and immunities established by Persons of wealth in our Republic.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
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I'm aware, but it's not like a democratic process.  The holders don't pick who they are voting for.  It's just one big racket.  You can't see the problem with having CEO's in the board?  And the board picks who's up for vote in the board?  You don't question CEO pay at all even though it can't be explained by any economic indicators?  The system is rigged.  To believe otherwise is just foolish.

Outrageous Executive Compensation: Corporate Boards, Not the Market, Are to Blame

The standard justification for the high pay of CEOs and other top executives is that the market demands it. It is argued that if you do not pay CEOs at or above the market, they will leave and go to a competitor. There are a number of problems with this argument. Perhaps the most important one is that numerous studies have shown that CEOs rarely move from one company to another, and when they do, they are usually less successful than internal candidates. In short, at least at the CEO level, there is little evidence that an efficient market for talent exists that is based on compensation levels.

Some members of corporate boards have an even greater self-interest in making sure that the compensation of the CEO continues to go up, up, and up. They are the CEOs of other companies. You don’t have to be a compensation expert to realize that if you vote for one of your peers to have a higher salary, you are in effect voting for your own salary to go up, because it is based on what will be a higher market.

For boards to change their stripes when it comes to executive compensation, major changes need to take place in who is on corporate boards and on their compensation committees. It would mean fewer CEOs on corporate boards. It would require more board members who understand talent management and are concerned about the societal impact of corporations. Another effective change would be to have a board membership that is dominated by strong, independent directors.


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## Markle (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Some reports claim compensation is only nominally tied to performance,* but no actual tie to performance.*



This means what?

As for the first part of that "sentence", kindly show us those reports showing that compensation is not tied to performance.


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## Redfish (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
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the power company has a monopoly, it has zero competition.   It is regulated by the government.   But, it is still a profit motivated organization.   If it was a socialist organization, it would just break even on cost vs income, and your power would suck.  

The profit motive is what gives us good products and good services. 

I do agree with you that the govt should not bail out failing businesses, like GM.   But you do realize that the GM bailout was to save the UAW, not GM don't you?


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## Redfish (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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some CEOs make too much in your opinion, and in mine.   So do most athletes and entertainers.   The difference is that a CEO is making money for the shareholders and employees whereas the jocks and Hollywood types are only making themselves rich.


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## Redfish (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Markle said:
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there will always be rich and there will always be poor.   Nothing we do, or any government does, will ever change that.   Its a fact of life, we do not all get equal results,  however, in this country we all have an equal opportunity to succeed.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Brain357 said:
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The difference is the CEO is determining his own pay.  Athletes and entertainers pay is determined by the owner of the teams or CEO's of the entertainment industry.  But I do agree they are all over paid.


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
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> 
> > Some reports claim compensation is only nominally tied to performance,* but no actual tie to performance.*
> ...


I thought every bailout was a self-evident Truth?

CEOs had to "lie to their stock holders" about performance, and got to keep their multimillion dollar bonuses while on _means tested_ corporate welfare.



> Since the 1990s, CEO compensation in the US has outpaced corporate profits, economic growth and the average compensation of all workers. Between 1980 and 2004, Mutual Fund founder John Bogle estimates total CEO compensation grew 8.5%/year, compared to corporate profit growth of 2.9%/year and per capita income growth of 3.1%.[18][19] By 2006 CEOs made 400 times more than average workers—a gap 20 times bigger than it was in 1965.[7] As a general rule, the larger the corporation the larger the CEO compensation package.[20]--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_compensation#Controversy


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## Kondor3 (Apr 9, 2017)

> Why do democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare?


Gots ta keep dem Darkies on de innuh city Democrat plantations, wif de help uv de house nigras in de City Council keepin' de fiel' hans in dare place, dont'cha know!

Cain't trust dem Tubob fer nuffin'.. '_specially_ de _Democrat_ Tubob... but dey gives us mo' stuff, so's we votes fer dem 'stead, an' keeps an eye on dare white asses...


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

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> Redfish said:
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Oh, and athlete and entertainer pay really is based on performance.  The best players make the most money.  If their stats go down the pay will with their next contract.  Same goes for entertainers.  If ratings go down or a movie isn't so good they start making less.


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## Markle (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> I do not disagree with Dr. Williams assessment; I merely believe it is more about equal protection of the law for the poor, since the rich can afford the finest privileges and immunities money can buy, under our form of capitalism. It is more about, "free riding" on privileges and immunities established by Persons of wealth in our Republic.



First, you say you don't disagree with Dr. Williams and then you rant about the "rich" free riding on privileges and immunities.  What privileges and immunities?  Further, his essay clearly show that the majority of people move up and down through different income brackets and the key components of a successful life.

Not sure either about equal protection of the law.  Abide by the law and that is not an issue for anyone.


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
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You miss the equation.  Government should be, not for profit.  Thus, it is about cost, not cost plus profit.


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Redfish said:


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It is about first world work ethics; equal protection of the law regarding the legal concept of employment at will, for unemployment compensation purposes, is a first world, civic solution.


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## Redfish (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Brain357 said:
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same with CEOs.   If they do not make the numbers the BOD tells them to make, they are out of a job.   If the stock price goes down, so do they.  

I do agree with you that some of them make too much,  but maybe the corps think making money for the shareholders is that important. 

Why does Tom Brady make so much?    Because he produces wins.


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > I do not disagree with Dr. Williams assessment; I merely believe it is more about equal protection of the law for the poor, since the rich can afford the finest privileges and immunities money can buy, under our form of capitalism. It is more about, "free riding" on privileges and immunities established by Persons of wealth in our Republic.
> ...


it is about unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.


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## Redfish (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
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We agree that everyone should be equal in the eyes of the law.   But, sadly, that is not the case and never has been.   OJ Simpson was not treated the same way that a ghetto murderer would have been treated. 

not sure what unemployment compensation has to do with this, but UE payments are equal regardless of what you made while working.


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## Redfish (Apr 9, 2017)

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are you trying to make a case for unions?   WTF are you talking about here?


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Redfish said:


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But that isn't true:
A new report from MSCI has found that better paid CEOs tend to run worse performing companies, while their underpaid peers achieve significantly better results.

The authors, who studied 429 large U.S. companies over a 10-year period, summarized their findings this way: "Has CEO pay reflected long-term stock performance? In a word, 'no.'"

The report found that average shareholder returns over the decade were 39% higher when a company's CEO was in the bottom 20% of earners compared to a CEO in the top 20% of earners.

Top-paid CEOs aren't very good at their jobs


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## Redfish (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
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if true, which I doubt, then blame the BOD for giving the guy/gal a bad contract and not insisting on results.  

Do you want the government stepping on when a CEO fails to produce?   Exactly what do you think should change?


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
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It is about improving the efficiency of our economy by solving simple poverty on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Redfish said:


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the legal concept of employment at will.


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## Markle (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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I'm amused by your fixation with the pay of a CEO.  General Electric has 333,000 employees...ONE CEO.  Exxon/Mobil 73,500 employees...ONE CEO, formerly Rex Tillerson.

Is this all you have?  Quit you're belly-achin'.


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## Redfish (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
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are you saying we don't have employment at will?   What point are you trying to make?  That no one should ever be fired?


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

it is about unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.


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## Dragonlady (Apr 9, 2017)

Redfish said:


> same with CEOs.   If they do not make the numbers the BOD tells them to make, they are out of a job.   If the stock price goes down, so do they.
> 
> I do agree with you that some of them make too much,  but maybe the corps think making money for the shareholders is that important.
> 
> Why does Tom Brady make so much?    Because he produces wins.



The Board is made up of other CEO's and executives who know that their decisions regarding executive pay will eventually boost their own salaries so of course they vote for these raises.  Executive pay has risen by more in than 300% during the same 35 year period that low end worker pay has stagnated.

CEO pay is driven less by performance, and more by contracts approved by Directors who are CEO's of their own corporations.  This is what has driven up executive pay - not performance, not economic factors - the "Old Boys' Network" is taking care of their own. 

Carly Fiorino was fired by HP but was still paid millions via her "golden parachute".  These aren't payments driven by performance or results.

No corporation should be allowed to pay out rumeration in any form which runs into 8 figures, if that company's employees are receiving earned income credits, food stamps or Medicaid.  Companies need to be paying their workers a living wage - especially companies like McDonalds which is paying more than $20 million to their CEO.

For those who say that McDonald's stores can't afford higher wages, then McDonald's corporate needs to drop their franchise and advertising fees, since corporate is awash in cash and is one of the most profitable corporations in the US.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Redfish said:


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Well yes the BOD is the problem.  The BOD consists of many other CEO's who can look forward to high pay themselves by giving high pay.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Markle said:


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And the CEOs should be increasing worker pay with their own. That isn't happening however.

Report: CEOs Earn 331 Times As Much As Average Workers, 774 Times As Much As Minimum Wage Earners


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Markle said:


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CEOs have even been caught colluding to hold down worker pay:
Judge approves $415M settlement in Apple, Google wage case
A federal judge has approved a $415 million settlement that ends a lengthy legal saga revolving around allegations that Apple, Google and several other Silicon Valley companies illegally conspired to prevent their workers from getting better job offers.


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## Markle (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> The BOD does not select the BOD. They just vote on the CEO who wants to be on their board.


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## Thinker101 (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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Sounds like you may be expecting life to be fair, and life is anything but fair.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


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Well stagnant wages slows an economy.  I'd much rather workers were treated fairly so our economy could be stronger.


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## Redfish (Apr 9, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > same with CEOs.   If they do not make the numbers the BOD tells them to make, they are out of a job.   If the stock price goes down, so do they.
> ...




so you want the government to specify how much a company can pay its executives?   Does that apply to athletes and entertainers as well?   How about members of congress?  Should their outside incomes be limited? or taken from them?

you have no idea what you are asking for.


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## Redfish (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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a free market place raises wages.  Who in the US economy is not treated "fairly" ?


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## Redfish (Apr 9, 2017)

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its a fantasy ingrained in the liberal mind.   That the government can make life fair.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Redfish said:


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CEO's colluding to hold down wages is not at all free market:
Judge approves $415M settlement in Apple, Google wage case


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

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CEO  should be increasing  other  workers pay  with  their own?  Why?  Who made that rule up?


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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Well the CEO isn't doing any of the real work.  So the success of a company has much to do with the workers, they should be sharing in the success obviously.


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## Redfish (Apr 9, 2017)

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many companies have profit sharing plans.  Walmart for one.

your real problem is that you are jealous of people who are smarter than you or have more money than you have.   I get it,  the liberal mantra------------"punish success and reward failure".


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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Is  that because of the CEO or the  nature  of the  business?


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## Thinker101 (Apr 9, 2017)

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I'm surprised that you feel CEOs are the problem.  I agree they make a lot of money, maybe even too much money.  But for the government to step in and regulate their pay just goes against the grain in so many ways.  Perhaps you should redirect your concerns toward illegal immigrants that tend to suppress wages.


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## Redfish (Apr 9, 2017)

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maybe not any physical work. but those jobs are 24/7/365 and very high stress.   A pussy like you could never make it as a CEO.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

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And who made that one up?  

I get paid to do X work.  It doesn't matter if the company is  breaking even, it doesn't  matter if the company  is losing  money, it doesn't  matter if  the company is making  a ton of money.  I get paid to do X work and that's it.


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## Markle (Apr 9, 2017)

Redfish said:


> whereas the jocks and Hollywood types are only making themselves rich.



Nonsense!  They make hundreds of people a LOT of money.  I don't know what the word "rich" means to you.  Where does the income from "jocks and Hollywood types" end?  Agents?  TV rights?  Stadiums?  Vendors?  Groundskeepers?  Souvenirs?


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


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You think the very poorly paid immigrants are the main ones suppressing wages?  Sorry to find the problem, you need to follow the money, and very little goes their way.


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## Dragonlady (Apr 9, 2017)

Redfish said:


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No, I said that corporations which expect the US government to supplement less than living wages with earned income credits, food stamps, Section 8 housing and Medicaid, should not be allowed to pay huge salaries to their employees, until NONE OF THEIR FULL TIME WORKERS ARE RECEIVING WELFARE.

The last time I looked people in bigtime sports franchises or movie production were making well above minimum wages.  Any company whose employees are not receiving welfare, is free to pay whatever they choose.


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## Redfish (Apr 9, 2017)

Markle said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > whereas the jocks and Hollywood types are only making themselves rich.
> ...




sorry, I should have said "themselves and their cronies".   vendor and groundskeeper pay does not go up when athlete pay goes up.  They would make the same amounts if player pay was cut in half.


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## Redfish (Apr 9, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


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which full time employees of major corporations are receiving welfare?  Please do some checking before answering so you don't make a fool of yourself.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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You really just love an economy where people don't do well if they work hard.  I really think you would make a good communist.  Most of what you say really isn't American.  Why do you think we became such a strong nation?  It's the middle class.  Lots of countries have had really rich and really poor.  That stagnates growth.  But creating a strong middle class is what made us better.


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## BrokeLoser (Apr 9, 2017)

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Let's not be misleading here...you people don't give a shit about the employees who actually play a role in the growth, development and profitability of the company...right? These types of employees in key positions are generally well compensated.
You're really "looking out for" Juan who pushes the broom and takes out the trash...who basically stole an American kids job...right?
You want Juan to be able to provide for his familia of eight on what should be a child's job salary...right?
Do you believe Juan, with his brainless broom pushing duty is influencing the trajectory of the company?


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Dragonlady said:
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I am asking for equal protection of the law regarding the legal concept of employment at will, for unemployment compensation purposes.

Then, the poor don't need to care how much the rich make.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Redfish said:


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Yes their job is kind of like playing monopoly.  You make lots of decisions, but don't do any actual work.  I like monopoly.


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## Thinker101 (Apr 9, 2017)

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No, but I do love an at-will employment state which allows me to quit at any time and move on to a better paying job.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> Brain357 said:
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That is how it should be.  Shame sometimes CEOs collude to hold down market wages:
Judge approves $415M settlement in Apple, Google wage case


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## Thinker101 (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
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What is your definition of work?  Based on what you've said is it safe to say work only involves physical labor?


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## Markle (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> You miss the equation. Government should be, not for profit. Thus, it is about cost, not cost plus profit.



Where and how does government make a profit?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

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No, the stockholders do not vote  on who's is running for the board positions.  They vote on the people once they are selected.  If a company didn't do that, then you could have the janitor running for a board position and unknowing stockholders just might vote for him. 

Major stockholders (who are very  valued by the  company) are not about to keep their  millions invested in a company that is wasting money on unworthy employees.  If CEO's are not performing to the major stockholders expectation, and he's still getting  more money, they will pull their  millions out of the company and go somewhere else.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

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Not at all. There are just different types of work.  Just making the decisions and having everyone else do the physical work is much different.  Kinda like playing monopoly.  There is a reason why CEOs tend to work till they die and people doing the real work can't wait to retire.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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Just like stock holders are unknowingly voting in CEOs who have their own interests.  Maybe you are getting it now.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

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Well then for one, you obviously don't know what Communism is, and  two, nothing is more American than telling a man you will work for him at an agreed rate of pay for agreed work.  It's that simple.


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## Markle (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Well the CEO isn't doing any of the real work. So the success of a company has much to do with the workers, they should be sharing in the success obviously.



You just play here don't you?  You just relish in making outrageous, foolish statements.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

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The only interest an investor has  is growth of money which comes from growth of a company they are invested in.  They don't care about anything else.  

So yes, if a CEO is responsible for great returns on their  investments, why should they not vote for the board members that pay that  CEO more money?


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> Brain357 said:
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You should be able to quit and still get unemployment compensation.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
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I understand that one reason communism failed is because they tried to pay everyone the same regardless of how hard they worked.  You want people to work hard and just be happy they have a job rather than share in the success.  Very un-American.


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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Just cherry picking?  Nobody complains about merit based pay.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
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They are just voting for whoever is up for a vote regardless is stock is going up or down.  Like you said they might accidently vote the janitor in.


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## BrokeLoser (Apr 9, 2017)

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> Thinker101 said:
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More common delusion from Lefties....If you aren't pushing a broom or digging holes you're overpaid. No value in your education and or intelligence...haha
This is mostly shit you're inherently unable to wrap your head around being a Liberal and all.
Just as in life, quality decision making is paramount to success. 
CEO's are paid to think, make key decisions, problem solve and command overall direction. 
Simple shit here


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

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Individuals and people that are not major holders in  the company might, but major stockholders are paying very  close attention. 

I'm not a major stockholder, but I do have  a nice IRA account.  The market is  doing great and so is my IRA, but if it were not, I would be on the phone with  my investment  company asking WTF is going on?  

My investment company handles thousands of clients like myself.  Collectively, we are talking  millions of dollars  here.  If there is something going  on with an investment that is very suspicious or even crooked, my investment company is obligated by law to pull our money out of that investment. 

Fund managers have a hell of a  lot of say-so with companies because you don't  want them pulling all that money out.  In fact, I would never  have to worry about such a scenario because my investment company would pull me out of a bad investment before I even realized I was in a bad investment.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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I don't even  understand what in  hell that's supposed to mean.  CEOs do get paid based on past performance.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

BrokeLoser said:


> Brain357 said:
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I don't disagree CEOs should be paid well.  But their increases are not explainable by economics.  CEOs on the board vote for raises so that they themselves get raises by their board.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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The stock market goes up and down and brings individual companies with it rather the CEO is doing great work or not.  And I've already posted the highest paid CEOs performance is not so good.


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## Thinker101 (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
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Or at least we hope they would pull monies out.  Just as there are good/bad companies, good/bad CEO's, there are good/bad fund managers.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

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> Ray From Cleveland said:
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Unless  you have profit sharing  as a benefit, no, you  don't share  in the success of the  company.  You agreed to do X work for X amount of money regardless how good or bad a company is doing.  If you  process  20 pieces of material on your drill press and  the company is doing great, why should  you get more money for processing those 20 pieces as  before?  

Now if  you want to share  in  the companies good fortunes, then buy their stock.  In fact, some companies will let  you buy stock at a discount because  you  are an employee.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

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This  is true, but I would assume major investment companies have the best managers their money can  find.  These are not blind trusts.  You have  a list of companies your investment  company has you involved  in.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
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Are you aware that almost everything you promote is not only in-American, but slows an economy?  Why is that?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

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What is un-American  about what I said?  Nothing can be more American than  what I wrote.


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## Markle (Apr 9, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> I'm surprised that you feel CEOs are the problem. I agree they make a lot of money, maybe even too much money. But for the government to step in and regulate their pay just goes against the grain in so many ways. Perhaps you should redirect your concerns toward illegal immigrants that tend to suppress wages.



Former President Bill Clinton is responsible for the massive increase in the pay of CEOs.  He made a dreadful mistake, going against the advice of his economic advisors, and attempted to limit their pay to $1 million per year.  He did this by not allowing any salary above that figure to be a deductible expense for the company.  You know the result.  Corporations and the attorneys found a way around resulting in drastically higher pay.


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## Thinker101 (Apr 9, 2017)

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> BrokeLoser said:
> 
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I feel the moral of the story here is:  Your best deal is made when you get hired, so make it count.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

There is lots of evidence that too much inequality slows an economy:
Reducing income inequality would boost economic growth, according to new OECD analysis. This work finds that countries where income inequality is decreasing grow faster than those with rising inequality.

Inequality hurts economic growth, finds OECD research  - OECD


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## BrokeLoser (Apr 9, 2017)

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Not sure what the point is but...
CEO's hold one seat of many on a board of directors and they represent one vote. Often times CEO's are founders and or co-founders of X company.
CEO's are typically paid based on profitability and performance. Bonuses are typically paid when predetermined goals are attained.
Again, this seems pointless, we're diluting the real issue.
You don't really care what the CEO is paid you really only care about what Juan, the broom pusher isn't paid...right?


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Markle said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm surprised that you feel CEOs are the problem. I agree they make a lot of money, maybe even too much money. But for the government to step in and regulate their pay just goes against the grain in so many ways. Perhaps you should redirect your concerns toward illegal immigrants that tend to suppress wages.
> ...



His intentions were good, but the result bad.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

BrokeLoser said:


> Brain357 said:
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I want Juan the broom pusher to have upward mobility if he works hard. 

The board consists of many CEOs.  Look at the board for GE.  Those CEOs vote for an increase for the GE CEO so they can later use that increase to justify their own increase from their board which is also filled with CEOs.


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## Thinker101 (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> There is lots of evidence that too much inequality slows an economy:
> Reducing income inequality would boost economic growth, according to new OECD analysis. This work finds that countries where income inequality is decreasing grow faster than those with rising inequality.
> 
> Inequality hurts economic growth, finds OECD research  - OECD



Boy, that's a  tough one.  OECD research suggests pay inequity has knocked 10 percentage points off growth in Mexico.  More like government corruption has knocked 30% off growth in Mexico.


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## Thinker101 (Apr 9, 2017)

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> BrokeLoser said:
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And Juan the broom pusher has experience pushing a broom, pretty sure you don't want him making too many corporate decisions.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > There is lots of evidence that too much inequality slows an economy:
> ...


Inequality hurts economic growth while equality helps it, IMF study


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

BrokeLoser said:


> Brain357 said:
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Yes, especially when the right whines about taxes for social spending.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

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Unlikely.  But I would assume some have started at the bottom and worked up to be good CEOs.  Certainly would give a great understanding of how the company works.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> There is lots of evidence that too much inequality slows an economy:
> Reducing income inequality would boost economic growth, according to new OECD analysis. This work finds that countries where income inequality is decreasing grow faster than those with rising inequality.
> 
> Inequality hurts economic growth, finds OECD research  - OECD



Well how does one reduce pay inequity?


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## Markle (Apr 9, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> No, I said that corporations which expect the US government to supplement less than living wages with earned income credits, food stamps, Section 8 housing and Medicaid, should not be allowed to pay huge salaries to their employees, until NONE OF THEIR FULL TIME WORKERS ARE RECEIVING WELFARE.



Specifically who made the bad decisions that prevented any worker from earning more than the minimum wage?  Do you work for minimum wage?  Either way, why?


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## Thinker101 (Apr 9, 2017)

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> Thinker101 said:
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There are exceptions but for the most part everyone starts at the bottom.  Making the right choices seems to be the key.


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## Thinker101 (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> BrokeLoser said:
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Which is offset by the left whining about more taxes for social spending.  Get a fricken job.


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > There is lots of evidence that too much inequality slows an economy:
> ...


A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage competes favorably with the cost of social services.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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A  fifteen dollar minimum  wage will end  pay inequity?


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## Markle (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> That is how it should be. Shame sometimes CEOs collude to hold down market wages:
> Judge approves $415M settlement in Apple, Google wage case



Thank you for going out of the way to prove that the system works.  Which of those folks worked for minimum wage?


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > There is lots of evidence that too much inequality slows an economy:
> ...



Well we should put a stop to CEOs giving themselves constant raises I suppose.  I'd also like to see corporate taxes used as an incentive to give raises.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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> > That is how it should be. Shame sometimes CEOs collude to hold down market wages:
> ...



How do you mean the system works?  Because we caught these few and fined them?  For every CEO involved in this few will actually be caught.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

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> Ray From Cleveland said:
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So in other  words, have government run everything.  And you called  me a  Communist?  

And how would a CEO making less help the  little guy?


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
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No, the government would run nothing.  Because we have corporate taxes now, the government is running those companies?  Seriously?

It would decrease inequality which would increase economic growth which is good for everyone.


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## Thinker101 (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




Brian, may I ask how old you are and what do you do for work?


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


It will reduce pay inequality to that extent.  

Social services pays out about fourteen dollars an hour by comparison.

There is no reason to subsidize the rich through underpayment of minimum wages.


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## Markle (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage competes favorably with the cost of social services.



What happens to all other wages increase an equal percentage above the $15.00?  What happens to the worker, now being given $15.00 per hour, in two or five years when they are back on the bottom of the pay schedule and everything that was unaffordable before, is unaffordable again and they need food stamps, etc.?


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## BrokeLoser (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Shareholders will ultimately make the decisions for X company...productivity and profitability will influence the direction and decisions made....broom pusher Juan and whether or not he can support his family will not factor...sorry.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Self employed and in 40's to give you a clue.  Very well schooled in economics.


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > That is how it should be. Shame sometimes CEOs collude to hold down market wages:
> ...


Employer birds of a feather, not secretary birds of a feather.


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage competes favorably with the cost of social services.
> ...


Inflation happens; in the mean time, there is less "pay inequality" and our minimum wage competes favorably with the cost of social services.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Not my favorite idea, but lots of support for an increase in minimum wage, though not to $15.
Over 600 Economists Sign Letter In Support of $10.10 Minimum Wage: Economist Statement on the Federal Minimum Wage


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## Thinker101 (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



That "mean time" could be months, could be days.


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


does it matter?  inflation happens, regardless.


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## Thinker101 (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Point being, you would end up back where you started.  Then you'd be asking for $20/hour, then $30/hour.  If you don't want to improve your skills you don't move up the ladder.


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## Markle (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> You want people to work hard and just be happy they have a job rather than share in the success.



My guess is that you also believe that these workers, sharing in the success will also share in the failure or bad times of the business.  Is that true?  Or should they share in the profits but not the losses?


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## Markle (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Inflation happens; in the mean time, there is less "pay inequality" and our minimum wage competes favorably with the cost of social services.



As you hopefully know, this has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with inflation.

You're dodging the question.  Why?


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## Papageorgio (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Again, did I say differently? You seem to have comprehension issues claiming diversion when there is none as I agreed with you, yet my agreeing with you is considered a diversion.


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## Thinker101 (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


 
Reducing social services should help alleviate that pay inequality.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > You want people to work hard and just be happy they have a job rather than share in the success.
> ...



Obviously they do.  They are the ones who get laid off.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

I'd just like to applaud everyone for having civil conversation.  Sometimes it can be rare on a message board.  But it's been an enjoyable conversation.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



A Board of Directors set the CEO's pay.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



The board is filled with other Ceos who also want raises.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...




Who can change the pay? Ostensibly the board of directors. But who makes up most boards? Largely still CEOs (and former CEOs). It doesn’t do any board member’s reputation any good with his peers to try and cut CEO pay. You certainly don’t want your objection to “Joe’s” pay coming up when its time to set your pay.

Why CEOs Make So Much Money


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



We are not subsidizing the rich, we are subsidizing the poor.  So we increase minimum wage, and instead of the lowlifes working 30 hours a week, they drop down to 20 hours a week to keep their benefits.  What was accomplished except allowing  the lowlife to work less  hours?


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## Papageorgio (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



There are some but they have a bigger obligation to the stockholders.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Is the worker choosing to cut hours or the employer?  Lots of companies use part time and temporary workers to avoid full time pay.

I think we need to get back to full time workers making significantly more than part time and welfare.  That creates more pride and incentive to work.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



Most stock holders aren't paying they much attention to CEO pay.   They would only notice if the stock really tanks.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Most board members have a vested interest in the companies that they sit. I'm not going to keep a CEO that is going to hurt the stocks. That's my money I'll lose.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



But most board members are also CEO's and have a vested interest in CEO pay increasing.  Things really have to go bad for a CEO to get a pay cut or be fired.


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## Markle (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Obviously they do. They are the ones who get laid off.



No, no, no, that's only if you have a system where the worker is paid whether or not the company is doing well.  If they work, they get paid.

If the worker is to share in the profits, then they share in the losses by paying the company to keep them going.  That way, no one gets laid off!  What a deal!


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## Papageorgio (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



CEOs get fire all the time, they have a bad year maybe two and they are done. The average CEO is 55 and is replaced in under five years.


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## Markle (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Is the worker choosing to cut hours or the employer? Lots of companies use part time and temporary workers to avoid full time pay.



Wrong again my good friend.

Companies have to opt for part-time workers in order to avoid all the additional costs incurred by mandated Obamacare.  Very small companies also opt for part-time or delay hiring workers to avoid reaching 50 employees.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




_*One recent study of C.E.O. tenure found that the percentage of forced turnover tripled between 1970 and 2006, and another study concluded that boards of directors now “aggressively fire C.E.O.s for poor industry-adjusted performance.” In addition, the average duration of a C.E.O.’s tenure has fallen. In 1984, thirty-five per cent of C.E.O.s had been in the job for ten years or more; in 2000, only fifteen per cent had. By 2009, according to one study, average tenure at the world’s biggest companies had fallen to around six years. (It has rebounded some since, because C.E.O.s are, naturally, less likely to be fired when corporate profits are healthy.)*_

Why C.E.O.s Are Getting Fired More


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



If that's the case then they are in  the wrong investment.  

If you have $400,000 tied up in a company and they drop 1% in growth, trust me, you're  going  to notice.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



It would have to be a hell of a lot more to make up for the government  goodies  loss. 

So let's say you work  in  one of those liberal areas that took a huge minimum wage increase.  Your new hourly wage is $7.50 more an hour than you used to make.  But you are also getting $300.00 a month in food stamps. 

Running the numbers, that means you would have to work 40 hours  for free to  break even on  your food stamp loss.  So not only do you lose your food stamps, but you work the first week of every month for nothing.  Are you going to do that?


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Is the worker choosing to cut hours or the employer? Lots of companies use part time and temporary workers to avoid full time pay.
> ...



Right so the company is choosing.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



6 years at that pay is a fortune.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



I think if the job climate improves it would be wise to cut back on welfare for those able to work.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Looks like tenure increasing in recent years.

Equilar | CEO Tenure Has Increased Nearly One Full Year Since 2005


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I think it would be wise to do that anytime.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Remember now that is  the  average.  That means  there are CEO's who lose their  job  after a few years to CEO's that  spend over a decade at their job.  Those are probably the CEO's who  are performing well.  The CEO's who only last  a few years  are probably  not performing so well.  

The point is that this is  not a cabal  like your one source  claims  it is.  CEO's get fired or  pressured out of jobs all the  time by (yes) the Board of Directors.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



That could certainly be its own thread.  Last time I checked it appeared to leave you still quite poor, but I'd have to look at it.  But if there are lots of jobs available with a good starting pay cuts to move people to jobs would be fine with me.  I think the number of people who are ok with working little and collecting welfare goes down as more good jobs are available.  If your neighbor has a job and has more stuff than you, you want a job too.  If your neighbor is working hard and doesn't seem to go anywhere you remain content to work little and collect welfare.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



*It would decrease inequality which would increase economic growth which is good for everyone*

How does giving the broom pusher a raise increase economic growth?


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## regent (Apr 9, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


Well government can sure make life more fair or less fair depending on the ideology of those running the government. Our government was formed with the idea of making life more fair than it was under kings, dictators and so forth. Our founders spent a summer working on a set of rules they hoped would fit into the age of enlightenment, and make a happier life for its citizens. But you're right it is ingrained in the liberal mind, and they keep working on the pursuit of happiness, and for all citizens.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



He now has more to spend.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



And the company has less to spend.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



The company is spending on the worker.  The worker can then spend more on other things.


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## regent (Apr 9, 2017)

Rocko said:


> No one breaks the cycle of poverty because of government handouts. That's a concept liberals don't get.


Millions of people broke the cycle from the  Great Depression to WWII, and it was Government programs that sustained them during that period.


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## Rocko (Apr 9, 2017)

regent said:


> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> > No one breaks the cycle of poverty because of government handouts. That's a concept liberals don't get.
> ...



So the plan is to sustain black people until when?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Right. So how does that increase economic growth?


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



How Consumer Spending And Economic Growth Is Linked


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Thanks!

*GDP = C + I + G + NX*

*C*_ = Consumer spending_

*I*_ = Business investments_

*G*_ = Government spending_

*NX*_ = Net exports_

So the broom pusher has an extra $3000 to add to consumer spending.
The company has $3000 less which subtracts from business investments.

How has your plan increased economic growth?


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



If paying little so that the business keeps more was going to grow the economy, we would already have huge growth.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



So your plan doesn't increase economic growth?
Thanks for admitting your error.


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...


That happens already; any thing else, or do you only have diversion?


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



The wage increases are pretty much guaranteed to increase consumer spending in the US.  The business investment may be international which will help another countries economy far more than ours.


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Inflation happens; in the mean time, there is less "pay inequality" and our minimum wage competes favorably with the cost of social services.
> ...


why not?  some Persons on the right wing, soothsay and hearsay, fantastical forms of price inflation.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


*
The wage increases are pretty much guaranteed to increase consumer spending in the US.*

And decrease business investment.
*
The business investment may be international*

Especially if we mandate much higher wages for unskilled labor.


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


we have a general welfare clause, to solve all of our problems.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Too much of it already is international.  Hence the slow economy.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




He just buys now Bud lights instead of natural lights,   Marlboros instead of pall mall, cocaine instead of crystal meth.. 

So remind us how does that help the economy? 


.


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


Why do you believe so?


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Any time a CEO can socialize costs to improve his bottom line, he probably will.


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


It increases the circulation of money and engenders a positive multiplier effect.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

bear513 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Bud lights are made here.  Cigarettes too.


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Henry Ford doubled autoworker wages, not minimum wages, for a reason.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



And like most of your comments, this one made absolutely no sense.


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Rocko said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > Rocko said:
> ...


Until we have another Jobs Boom, laissez-fair, dude.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Wage increases only help consumer  spending  if it's across the board, not in one city or state.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Did you have any ideas that would actually increase economic growth?


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


You have absolutely, no clue. 

The bank bailouts are one example.  

Part time work with few hours, is another example.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



*It increases the circulation of money*

How? Walk thru the steps.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



To reduce turnover.
It was an expensive pain in the ass to constantly train new workers.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



It's not about business  keeping  more.  It's about using  money wisely.  

Company growth  is the lifeblood of  most businesses--especially large businesses.  That's  because  growth reflects investment success.  

You have a company, and it's  growth rate is 5.2%.  But  pressure from media and other sources get to you, so you start to overpay your employees.   Your growth falls from 5.2% to 3.5%.  Investors  start  selling their stock  in your company.  New  investors  are few  and  far  between. What do you think happens to your company at that  point?


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



I've already given several.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



You mean we don't????? We are  not setting records in the stock market???  

Maybe  I'm  watching  the wrong  news  sources.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Companies are keeping plenty and the economy is slow.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Stock market isn't GDP.


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## regent (Apr 9, 2017)

Rocko said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > Rocko said:
> ...


You would have to ask Trump, Let us know what he says.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



You gave one that reduced GDP by as much as it increased GDP.

Try again?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Avoiding the question I see.  Good  choice  on your part.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Correct.  Stock market is a reflection of business  success or failure.


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


The poor tend to spend most of their income, sooner rather than later.  That increase in demand causes a corresponding increase in supply.

Increasing supply usually requires more labor or more hours or both.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage competes favorably with the cost of social services.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



And you've reduced the business investment which creates supply. Zero net change.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



So businesses are succeeding and our economy is slow?  You should think about that.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



So what?


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



No I've given several.  Increasing consumer spending here in the US with increased ages vs business investment in other countries.  While decreasing corporate taxes and keeping more money in the economy.  While decreasing inequality which slows the economy...


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Business investment in other countries doesn't help us.


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


how did that happen; walk through the steps.


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## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


rational choice theory applies to markets.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I have, I've thought about it a lot.  And my conclusion  is we had a President  for eight years promoting  government dependency.  It's still happening  today.  As  Rush Limbaugh said so many times "If you pay people not to work, don't be surprised  when they don't!"  

We have industry begging  people to take jobs, and people not taking  them.  What does that  tell you?  We also have  record high  rates of people not participating in the workforce.  

You can  never get an economy going  with so many people  on the dole.  There are no raises on welfare.  There  are  no  promotions  on welfare.  You get X  amount of money, and that's all you'll ever get.  You are poor and will always be  poor.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


*
No I've given several. Increasing consumer spending here in the US with increased ages vs business investment in other countries.*

You should stop doing things that cause companies to want to invest overseas versus here.

*While decreasing corporate taxes and keeping more money in the economy.*

You recommend reducing corporate taxes?

*While decreasing inequality which slows the economy...*

I've never understood the logic behind this claim....can you explain it?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Stop pushing for it.


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## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



We have very low unemployment.  Ever heard of the baby boomers?  We've known they were retiring for sometime, participation is no surprise.  More people are going to college and delaying going into the workforce.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



That's why your "unemployment for quitters and never workers" is bad for the economy.


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## thereisnospoon (Apr 9, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?


You answered your own question. To create a permanent underclass of self entitled individuals who at the polling place can vote themselves a pay raise.
Democrats like social entitlements for two reasons. One, it virtually guarantees them votes from the people to whom they provide handouts. Two, to create a sector of the population they can control.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> With how fast the middle class is shrinking you should be concerned for everyone.  I don't hear real answers from either party.


The middle class is NOT shrinking. That's a liberal narrative. And it works against themselves. Out of one side of their mouths they shriek about the allegedly shrinking middle class. Out of the other side of their yapper, they clam Obama created about three billion new jobs. 
Can't have it both ways.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



The rich are getting a capital gains tax preference to create Jobs Booms, but don't.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Giving a corporate tax break for increasing wages makes companies want to invest overseas? 

It should be obvious why.  Suppose you own a restaurant.  You need lots of customers obviously.  Well with lots of inequality only the rich can afford to go out to eat.  While they have lots of money, the few rich still only eat 3 times a day so your restaurant fails.  The restaurant doesn't need lots of rich people, it just needs lots of people rich enough to eat out regularly.

Now I can of course find you a link too, but that's the easy to understand explanation.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


how socialist of you, to not want to compete for labor.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Which is all bull because for one, many people of retirement age went back  to work, and  two, the baby boom could never spike the participation  rate that drastically anyway.  Next is the fact that many kids  in college always worked.  It's the only way to survive to pay for things not covered by school loans. 

Unemployment numbers are affected by the  labor participation rate.  If you are surveyed and  tell the poll worker you are not working nor looking for work, you are not considered unemployed.  Therefore, if you have huge  numbers of people unemployed and not looking for work, of course it gives you phony unemployment numbers.


----------



## MaryL (Apr 9, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?


I wondered about that in 1968. Where did all the honkeys go? They live in a universe  far far away. I  used to live with whites once upon a time, But now whites are scarce as hen's teeth, Now all we get is a bunch of poor poor mesicans or Blacks telling me I  am bad because I was born white.  Silly me, not choosing my ethinicy or sex, it's all my fault. Shame on me.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I have no idea WTF that even  means.  Nobody is getting a tax preference to create jobs.  Are you using  recreational narcotics  or something?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



*Giving a corporate tax break for increasing wages*

You'll have to explain this idea of yours.

*Well with lots of inequality only the rich can afford to go out to eat.* 

Do we have lots of inequality? Because I see no shortage of people going out to eat.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



He smokes a lot of weed.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Everyone competes for labor. You want to create a shortage by making it more lucrative to not work.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


this is why i don't take the right wing seriously about economics or the law.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Apr 9, 2017)

Eaglewings said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > follow up question:   why do democrats support the organized murder of unborn black children through planned parenthood?
> ...


Ah..The old all or nothing straw man argument. ....Nonsense. Do you really believe that if social entitlements were reduced, there would be starving people in the streets?
How little faith you have in your fellow human being.
The problem with social entitlements is not the entitlements themselves. The problems are many. One, the methods by which they are administered. Administration of the programs accounts for more than half of the funding. That's absurd. 
Next, there is little or no enforcement of the rules that govern who receives benefits and who does not. There are millions of people gaming the system. And with this so many who are most in need, get shut out and get nothing. 
The amount of waste fraud and abuse has reached stratospheric levels. 
Finally, these programs were developed to END poverty and get people back on their feet. They have turned into handouts. The programs offer little in the way incentive to move out of the programs.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Either  that or I'm drinking too much beer to understand hm.  LOL!


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Maybe you should.  You might learn  something for a change.


----------



## SmokeALib (Apr 9, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Apparently the poster has never been to a Texas Roadhouse on a Friday night. Or a Wednesday night for that matter. I usually don't go there because I can't get in the place.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 9, 2017)

SmokeALib said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



No kidding....Chili's is constantly packed.
Not a lot of rich people going there on a Friday night.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


Nonsense. There is no need for collectives which encourage group think and discourage individual achievement. Unions are the quintessential form of socialism. Good for slackers. Bad for the achievers. 
Unions have reduced membership because they did that to themselves. 
"It all goes to the rich"....Define "It"...
Just what did you expect with tax reductions? A windfall amount written on a check to arrive at your house?
Newsflash. When taxes are lowered across the board, those who pay the most, benefit the most. And you wan it that way. You claim those who earn more shoudl pay more. In the even of the tax reduction, the reverse applies. You cannot have it both ways.
I find it amazing that you liberals never saw a tax you did not like.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Who do you know that can just choose to not work?  People who can afford to retire.  Those who can't afford to retire keep working.  I know several who have happily retired in recent years, baby boomers.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



It's already been explained several times.

That really depends where you are.  Restaurants fail quite often.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



*It's already been explained several times.*

So explain it again. Currently, if a company spends an extra $100 on salary, they pay $35 less in tax.
You want to give them a break larger than $35?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



If you can get on some sort of government  program, you don't have  to work. That's the problem.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Apr 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


Wow. You know very little then.....Hey genius. Even small account holders of stocks, mutual funds, 401ks, etc. are affected by the cap gains tax cuts. Also, when one sells real property or other tangible asset, they realize a capital gain. You want a second full bite at that apple. You may curse the wealthy and wish they were the victims of confiscatory taxation, but in your zeal to steal, you sweep up everyone who is trying to build a nest egg, no matter how small, into your money grab schemes.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Apr 9, 2017)

thereisnospoon said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > With how fast the middle class is shrinking you should be concerned for everyone.  I don't hear real answers from either party.
> ...


what's so funny?
The three billion jobs thing? I posted an absurdity to make a point. One that went over your head.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Apr 9, 2017)

thereisnospoon said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


You don't have a rebuttal, do you? It figures. Facts are a bitch when they don't fit your agenda, aren't they?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



I'm fine if a company pays no taxes as long as they are employing here and providing good wages and benefits.  You are welcome to look back in this thread for details.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 9, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



People pay into social security.  Speaking of we have been worried about social security and when the baby boomers retire for sometime now.  It was predictable that participation would go down.


----------



## MaryL (Apr 9, 2017)

Democrats are rich  white  libs, They have never lived with  poor blacks or illegals   and they have to prove just how fair and open minded they are by overstating their hand. All those poor poor rich kids want to dictate to us what morality is. Poor poor little offspring of rich white elitists, being born all rich and white. I pity them so much.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 9, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



You've been very short on details of your "tax incentive plan".


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 10, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




It wasn't predicted people would live longer,  that's why it was always a ponzi scheme 


.


----------



## Rocko (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> > regent said:
> ...



We've already had numerous jobs boom's since a WWII. What now?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Employers don't have to hire labor even if they are not retired, even in Right to Work States.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

thereisnospoon said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


The rich don't have to use a work ethic from the Age of Iron, with a good capital ethic.

Who benefits the most from capital gains preferences, without having to work.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Rocko said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Rocko said:
> ...


what about now?  Jobs Booms means fewer people on social services for the right to whine about.  the rich even have a capital gains tax preference, to help out.


----------



## Markle (Apr 10, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> I think if the job climate improves it would be wise to cut back on welfare for those able to work.



Great, reinstate the 1996 Welfare Reform Act.  No work or no classes, no checks.  But this time with random drug tests with stiff penalties including lifetime disqualification.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 10, 2017)

Why did George Bush drive up the black unemployment rate the year before he left office?  lol


----------



## Markle (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Who benefits the most from capital gains preferences, without having to work.



ANYONE who own's stocks, bonds investment property or whatever.


----------



## Rustic (Apr 10, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Why did George Bush drive up the black unemployment rate the year before he left office?  lol


Career politicians on both sides of the aisle have no idea how to run a successful country… Fact


----------



## Markle (Apr 10, 2017)

regent said:


> Millions of people broke the cycle from the Great Depression to WWII, and it was Government programs that sustained them during that period.



It was the FDR government programs which extended the Great Depression by SEVEN YEARS.

How long did the Depression of 1920 last and what government programs were used which caused it to end?


----------



## Redfish (Apr 10, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




risk and reward,  supply and demand.   Econ 101


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > I think if the job climate improves it would be wise to cut back on welfare for those able to work.
> ...


Why does the right wing insist on keeping people poor?


----------



## Redfish (Apr 10, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Why did George Bush drive up the black unemployment rate the year before he left office?  lol




are you fricken blind?   obozo took office in jan 09.  the UE rate went up under his failed administration and never got back down to 08 rates.   That is on Obama.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




conservatives want every citizen to have a good paying job that will enable them to support themselves and their family.   Its you libs that want a permanent under class that is dependent on government handouts and whose votes you think you can buy with free stuff.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Redfish said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Why did George Bush drive up the black unemployment rate the year before he left office?  lol
> ...


the rich got their bailout.


----------



## Markle (Apr 10, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> How Consumer Spending And Economic Growth Is Linked



Sorry, you lose.  AGAIN.

You wish to take the money from the company which negates any additional growth.  Is that beyond your comprehension?


----------



## Redfish (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...




wrong, the UAW got its bailout.   Obama saved the union bosses and kept the union money flowing to the DNC.   There was no "rich bailout".   Where do you get this shit?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Unlike the right wing, I try to stay informed about the topics I argue.

_In 2008–09 the U.S. Treasury and the Federal Reserve System bailed out numerous very large banks and insurance companies, as well as General Motors and Chrysler.--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailout#U.S._savings_and_loan_crisis_


----------



## Redfish (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




yes, rich liberals, and some conservatives, benefitted from the fed easing of money.   But you claimed there was some form of "bailout for the rich".   what exactly was that?   Do no poor or middle class people have money in banks or hold mortgages?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


In this case, management.  At least Hostess, made HoHo's.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 10, 2017)

Markle said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > Millions of people broke the cycle from the Great Depression to WWII, and it was Government programs that sustained them during that period.
> ...



What nonsense.  Unemployment during the Great Depression peaked the year FDR was elected.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Capitalism has boom and bust cycles, not socialism.


----------



## Markle (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Henry Ford doubled autoworker wages, not minimum wages, for a reason.



Yes, he was more than able to double production and in that way lower the price of each Ford car sold.


----------



## Markle (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Capitalism has boom and bust cycles, not socialism.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Henry Ford doubled autoworker wages, not minimum wages, for a reason.
> ...


Good Capitalists realize gains from productivity, from any capital investment.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Capitalism has boom and bust cycles, not socialism.


that is communism, dear.


----------



## Markle (Apr 10, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Stock market isn't GDP.



Thank you for pointing out the failure of the Obama economy.

The doubling of the stock market was caused by eight years of quantitative easing.  Trillions of worthless dollars pumped into the economy finding a circuitous route to the stock market making the rich, richer.


----------



## Markle (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> that is communism, dear.



You would be helped by learning the difference.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > that is communism, dear.
> ...


I am advocating for better socialism at lower cost, not communism for free.  We are simply not moral enough.


----------



## Markle (Apr 10, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Business investment in other countries doesn't help us.



The availability of inexpensive large flat screen TV's don't help us?  Affordable smartphones?  Computers?  Clothing?  None of those things help us?  

Amusing!


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Communism, sufficient for a Commune of Heaven on Earth, may require enough morals for free, to obey Ten simple Commandments from a god.


----------



## Markle (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> I am advocating for better socialism at lower cost, not communism for free. We are simply not moral enough.



WHERE have we heard "BETTER SOCIALISM" before?  What a joke.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




see my sig line from Rand.   The difference is pretty basic.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




how "moral" are you?   do you have homeless living in your house?   Does Streisand have illegals living in her pool house?   You libs preach morality but never practice it.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > I am advocating for better socialism at lower cost, not communism for free. We are simply not moral enough.
> ...


The cognitive dissonance of the right wing regarding the poor, is even funnier in the Age of Corporate Welfare and bailouts for Persons of Wealth.


----------



## Markle (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> The rich are getting a capital gains tax preference to create Jobs Booms, but don't.



Show us where that is written anywhere.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > The rich are getting a capital gains tax preference to create Jobs Booms, but don't.
> ...


What is that preference for, if not to invest in our economy and help with full employment?  It could be taxed as ordinary income.


----------



## Markle (Apr 10, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Giving a corporate tax break for increasing wages makes companies want to invest overseas?



Specifically, how is that different from the government paying welfare, food stamps and such directly to the employee and then the company remaining competitive?


----------



## Aries (Apr 10, 2017)

It is the GOP that hates the poor, that much is clear. Every time there is a democratic president, the poor and middle class flourish. When there is a republican president, the poor and middle class alone face the full brunt of their regressive and damaging policies. Democrats are overall better for the economy. Under our leadership unemployment shrinks and our market expands. Low unemployment rates and a healthy market are extremely important when looking at the living standard of our poor. Time and time again, republicans have instituted legislation that is directly damaging to the development and uplifting process of our nation's poor. Things like corporate welfare, low minimum wage, war on drugs, stop and frisk, even trumps elimination of EPA regulations- disproportionately hurt low income Americans. It is republican policies, systemic oppression, and the extreme wealth inequity in our country that keeps poor families in the cycle of generational poverty.
Want to break generational poverty?
Want to create an economy where we can all be successful? Stop voting in Republican critters would be a good start!


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Giving a corporate tax break for increasing wages makes companies want to invest overseas?
> ...


Social services cost around fourteen dollars an hour, a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage competes favorably.

It is about privatizing costs under our form of capitalism, not socializing costs so the rich can get richer faster.


----------



## Markle (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> What is that preference for, if not to invest in our economy and help with full employment? It could be taxed as ordinary income.



So you made it up.  Surprise, surprise.

I've legally avoided paying capital gains on many properties I've owned by doing 1031 exchanges.  When I have sold a property and paid capital gains on the profits, I never once imagined it was for me to hire anyone.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

How does, republicans voting themselves a tax break, help the poor?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > What is that preference for, if not to invest in our economy and help with full employment? It could be taxed as ordinary income.
> ...


Why have that preference, if not to help the People, with full employment?


----------



## Markle (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Social services cost around fourteen dollars an hour, a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage competes favorably.



Why is it "my" responsibility to compensate someone for their bad decisions?

What happens when your "social services" cost rises to $28.00 per hour?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Social services cost around fourteen dollars an hour, a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage competes favorably.
> ...


Congress is delegated the social power to Tax, to provide for the general welfare.  It is not your responsibility.


----------



## Markle (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> How does, republicans voting themselves a tax break, help the poor?



Where does it say that the tax cuts are for Republicans only?  Does that mean that George Soros, Bill Gates, the vile Alec Baldwin ad-infinitum do NOT get tax cuts?

As you know, that helps the economy which helps all boats to rise.


----------



## Markle (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Congress is delegated the social power to Tax, to provide for the general welfare. It is not your responsibility.



That's certainly NOT what you said.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > How does, republicans voting themselves a tax break, help the poor?
> ...


No, it doesn't; that only happens when engage our Commerce Clause, not our defense clause.  All lowering taxes does is increase our debt.  Spend and finance, is the only thing the right wing knows how to do.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Congress is delegated the social power to Tax, to provide for the general welfare. It is not your responsibility.
> ...


I just said it.  Any questions?


----------



## Markle (Apr 10, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> That really depends where you are. Restaurants fail quite often.



Yes, very high risk business!  Which, you would love to make far more risky!


----------



## Markle (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> No, it doesn't; that only happens when engage our Commerce Clause, not our defense clause. All lowering taxes does is increase our debt.



Then how do revenues increase when taxes are cut?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > No, it doesn't; that only happens when engage our Commerce Clause, not our defense clause. All lowering taxes does is increase our debt.
> ...


They don't; it is why we have increasing debt.  Only the right wing, never gets it.


----------



## Markle (Apr 10, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Why did George Bush drive up the black unemployment rate the year before he left office? lol



Why did petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama do little or nothing to help blacks, or anyone for that matter?


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 10, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...



Gee, I thought conservatives just wanted the free market to have free rein and let the chips fall where they may...


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



The bank bailout was repaid at a huge profit to the US Treasury.
The UAW bailout cost big money, $12.6 billion in losses.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 10, 2017)

Aries said:


> It is the GOP that hates the poor, that much is clear. Every time there is a democratic president, the poor and middle class flourish. When there is a republican president, the poor and middle class alone face the full brunt of their regressive and damaging policies. Democrats are overall better for the economy. Under our leadership unemployment shrinks and our market expands. Low unemployment rates and a healthy market are extremely important when looking at the living standard of our poor. Time and time again, republicans have instituted legislation that is directly damaging to the development and uplifting process of our nation's poor. Things like corporate welfare, low minimum wage, war on drugs, stop and frisk, even trumps elimination of EPA regulations- disproportionately hurt low income Americans. It is republican policies, systemic oppression, and the extreme wealth inequity in our country that keeps poor families in the cycle of generational poverty.
> Want to break generational poverty?
> Want to create an economy where we can all be successful? Stop voting in Republican critters would be a good start!



*Every time there is a democratic president, the poor and middle class flourish.*

Cool story! How'd the poor and middle class do under Obama compared to under Reagan?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



*They don't; it is why we have increasing debt.*

Capital gains tax receipts increase every time the rate is cut.


----------



## Aries (Apr 10, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Aries said:
> 
> 
> > It is the GOP that hates the poor, that much is clear. Every time there is a democratic president, the poor and middle class flourish. When there is a republican president, the poor and middle class alone face the full brunt of their regressive and damaging policies. Democrats are overall better for the economy. Under our leadership unemployment shrinks and our market expands. Low unemployment rates and a healthy market are extremely important when looking at the living standard of our poor. Time and time again, republicans have instituted legislation that is directly damaging to the development and uplifting process of our nation's poor. Things like corporate welfare, low minimum wage, war on drugs, stop and frisk, even trumps elimination of EPA regulations- disproportionately hurt low income Americans. It is republican policies, systemic oppression, and the extreme wealth inequity in our country that keeps poor families in the cycle of generational poverty.
> ...


after the dark days of bush Obama put people back to work, lowered their taxes, and expanded assistance....So, better. They did better.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


They were still spending money and creating demand, and that form of positive multiplier effect.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


for a limited base;  why does our debt keep growing, if we can, simply end our corporate taxes to grow our way out it?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 10, 2017)

Aries said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Aries said:
> ...



*after the dark days of bush Obama......*

That's awesome! But how'd they do under Obama compared to under Reagan?
Unless you can't prove your claim?


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## Aries (Apr 10, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Aries said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


You want to compare economies with decades of difference in between? Take a lap.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



*They were still spending money and creating demand*

So were the banks...after profitably repaying the bank bailout.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



*for a limited base;*

The base of all capital holdings.

*why does our debt keep growing,*

Politicians spend way too much.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 10, 2017)

Aries said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Aries said:
> ...



I want you to provide back up for your claim.
How'd the poor and middle class do better under Jimmy Carter compared to under Reagan?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


so what; so was labor, positively engendering a positive multiplier effect.


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## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


nothing but diversion?  simply cut taxes and spend more--it is the Republican way.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Labor got a TARP loan? Tell me more!


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## Aries (Apr 10, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Aries said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


The Economy Under Democratic vs. Republican Presidents - Reports by Publication Date - United States Joint Economic Committee


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I'm sorry that I disproved your claim by pointing out the increased revenues collected by government every time the cap gains tax rate is cut.


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## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


labor was still getting paid and spending money, and not while on unemployment, as would have happened, with laissez-fair capitalism for the rich.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 10, 2017)

Aries said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Aries said:
> ...



Thanks for the link!
Do you have one that shows the poor and middle class did better under Jimmy Carter compared to under Reagan?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Yes, but enough about the profitable bank bailout.
Let's talk about the HUGE losses for the UAW bailout.


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## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


a limited base; our debt is still growing.  

a wartime economy requires wartime tax rates; thus, we need to raise taxes not lower taxes.


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## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
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Where did they account for the positive multiplier effect, like they did for banks?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Yes, our debt is still growing. $9.3 trillion under Obama. Even though he raised rates.
He must have done something wrong.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



If you don't understand the huge multiplier from a working banking system, versus a failed one, perhaps you should study bank failures and money supply during the Great Depression.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 10, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Giving a corporate tax break for increasing wages makes companies want to invest overseas?
> ...



So you think it is better with more government?  You think it is better to tax and have the government dish it out?  You must really like big government.

I think it is much better to cut the government out.  People no longer feel dependent on government.  They feel they are earning a decent wage and work harder.  Government waste is cut out...


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## NYcarbineer (Apr 10, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



The deficit has fallen every year since Obama raised taxes.


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## NYcarbineer (Apr 10, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Revenues increase 95% of the time anyway, yearly.  Revenues increase every time income taxes are increased.


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## NYcarbineer (Apr 10, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > The rich are getting a capital gains tax preference to create Jobs Booms, but don't.
> ...



He just wrote it.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 10, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Capital gains tax revenues increase when rates are hiked?
Capital gains tax revenues decrease when rates are cut?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 10, 2017)

Aries said:


> The Economy Under Democratic vs. Republican Presidents - Reports by Publication Date - United States Joint Economic Committee



Oo goodie.  Do they have the economy under a Democrat or Republican  Congress too?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 10, 2017)

Aries said:


> after the dark days of bush Obama put people back to work, lowered their taxes, and expanded assistance....So, better. They did better.



Really?  Who did he lower taxes on?  You mean that ten or twenty bucks a month people got from robbing Social Security; a program that's going broke?


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## regent (Apr 10, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Aries said:
> 
> 
> > after the dark days of bush Obama put people back to work, lowered their taxes, and expanded assistance....So, better. They did better.
> ...


Do Republicans still predict that Social Security will lead to communism?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 10, 2017)

regent said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Aries said:
> ...



I don't know because I never heard of such a thing until you posted it now.


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## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


no; taxes need to be raised higher.


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## danielpalos (Apr 10, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


They don't mention the positive multiplier effect from labor spending money.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 10, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Why?
Should our corporate taxes be raised, or just income and capital gains taxes?
Or do you have some other tax you'd like to raise?


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## Redfish (Apr 11, 2017)

Aries said:


> It is the GOP that hates the poor, that much is clear. Every time there is a democratic president, the poor and middle class flourish. When there is a republican president, the poor and middle class alone face the full brunt of their regressive and damaging policies. Democrats are overall better for the economy. Under our leadership unemployment shrinks and our market expands. Low unemployment rates and a healthy market are extremely important when looking at the living standard of our poor. Time and time again, republicans have instituted legislation that is directly damaging to the development and uplifting process of our nation's poor. Things like corporate welfare, low minimum wage, war on drugs, stop and frisk, even trumps elimination of EPA regulations- disproportionately hurt low income Americans. It is republican policies, systemic oppression, and the extreme wealth inequity in our country that keeps poor families in the cycle of generational poverty.
> Want to break generational poverty?
> Want to create an economy where we can all be successful? Stop voting in Republican critters would be a good start!




total bullshit.   during Obama's 8 years the number of americans below the poverty level increased, the number on food stamps increased, the number unemployed or underemployed increased, the number on welfare increased.  

As to jobs, the only jobs created by obozo the great Kenyan messiah, were part time minimum wage jobs with no future and no benefits. 

Now, wealth inequality.   during those same years the gap between rich and poor became larger than ever before in our history.

AND, the national debt was doubled. 

Obama failed, democrats failed, liberalism failed.   You are FOS


----------



## Redfish (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




the capital gains tax is to encourage investment in the country.  It is also to prevent double taxation since money in investments was already taxed when it was earned.


----------



## Aries (Apr 11, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Aries said:
> 
> 
> > It is the GOP that hates the poor, that much is clear. Every time there is a democratic president, the poor and middle class flourish. When there is a republican president, the poor and middle class alone face the full brunt of their regressive and damaging policies. Democrats are overall better for the economy. Under our leadership unemployment shrinks and our market expands. Low unemployment rates and a healthy market are extremely important when looking at the living standard of our poor. Time and time again, republicans have instituted legislation that is directly damaging to the development and uplifting process of our nation's poor. Things like corporate welfare, low minimum wage, war on drugs, stop and frisk, even trumps elimination of EPA regulations- disproportionately hurt low income Americans. It is republican policies, systemic oppression, and the extreme wealth inequity in our country that keeps poor families in the cycle of generational poverty.
> ...


fake news- turn off fox they make up numbers. 
Unemployment was cut in half and the wealth gap shrunk.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




how much higher?   Should everyone who earns money pay their "fair share" of the cost of government through taxes?  

and for the record, Obama did not cut taxes,  he kept the Bush tax rates in place.  You know, the evil Bush tax cuts.


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## Redfish (Apr 11, 2017)

Aries said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Aries said:
> ...




those are government statistics, not media numbers.   Check for yourself, you might learn something.


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## Aries (Apr 11, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Fake news Obama continually cut taxes, lowest tax rates in decades for middle class. Take a lap. Stop lying. Turn off Faux news.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

Aries said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



*Obama continually cut taxes, lowest tax rates in decades for middle class.*

It's true, the Bush tax cuts lowered rates for the middle class.


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## Redfish (Apr 11, 2017)

Aries said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




Obama did not cut middle class tax rates.   Where do you get this shit?   All he did was keep the Bush tax rates in place.  

but if you still claim that Obama cut taxes, cite the legislation that did that.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Aries said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...




"continually" cut taxes???????????????????    these left wing idiots are truly brain dead.


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## Aries (Apr 11, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Aries said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Here's What President Obama Has Done to Make the Tax Code Fairer


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## Redfish (Apr 11, 2017)

Aries said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Aries said:
> ...




increased EIC and extended the Bush tax cuts.   Did you even read what you posted?

in your previous post you said the Obama "continuously" cut taxes.   Continuously would mean many actions over a period of time.   

You need to stop getting your news from MSNBC and stop looking like a fool when you post their bullshit.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

Aries said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Aries said:
> ...



A temporary SS cut is your idea of continuously cutting taxes? LOL!


----------



## Redfish (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Aries said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...




ever notice how libs run from a thread when confronted with the facts?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Of course you think taxes need to be higher, you don't pay any income tax.   


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## danielpalos (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Let end the drug war first, and then see if we need to eliminate the capital gains preference.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



He'd react poorly to a high tax on weed and on weed growing supplies.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Why would we need to eliminate the capital gains preference?


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## danielpalos (Apr 11, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


it has nothing to do with double taxation; income is income that can be taxed at ordinary rates.  A capital gains preference should help with full employment or be eliminated.


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## danielpalos (Apr 11, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


High enough to have budget surpluses.


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## Redfish (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




of course it does,  you continue to display your ignorance.   Encouraging investment does help create jobs.   Full employment will never be achieved.   Never has, never will.   Keeping it around 5% is as good as we can ever get.


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## danielpalos (Apr 11, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Dear, the poor and Mr. Trump pay only the taxes they are legally obligated to pay.


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## danielpalos (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


nope; it is just drug money.  I don't have a problem with taxes.


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## Redfish (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




why not just high enough to pay the bills?   why not balance income and outgo? 

The problem is not lack of revenue, the problem is too much spending.


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## danielpalos (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


It doesn't work to create Jobs Booms.  It is just a loophole.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



*It doesn't work to create Jobs Booms.*

Does it help business creation?


----------



## Dragonlady (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



The Congressional Budget Office has stated categorically that cutting taxes DOES NOT increase employment, and that it does not increase revenues.  Revenues went DOWN and unemployment went up when St. Ronnie cut taxes, which is why he subsequently raised them again, he just didn't raise them enough.


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## Dragonlady (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



No.


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## danielpalos (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


?  simply creating business is anarchy.  How many of those created businesses fail in the first few years?


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## danielpalos (Apr 11, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


A capital gains preference only helps the rich get richer faster, if not used to create Jobs Booms.


----------



## Dragonlady (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> ?  simply creating business is anarchy.  How many of those created businesses fail in the first few years?



More than half of all new businesses fail within the first 2 years.  What supply siders constantly forget is that it's supply *and demand* that drives the economy.  At the present time, there is an enormous amount of pent up demand which Americans can't act on because they lack the income.  Increasing wages for those at the lowest end of the income scale, will release some of that pent up demand and drive employment. 

Someone once said that if you really wanted to prime the economic pump, he'd give poor people $10,000 per family, because if you give $10,000 to a rich man, he'll put it into savings and investments which may or may not result in employment, but if you give it to the poor, they will spend every $$ they get, and that will spur job creation.

When Bill Clinton increased the minimum wage, unemployment went down.  When W increased earned income credits, unemployment went up.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Are you sure?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



A lot of them fail.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



*A capital gains preference only helps the rich get richer faster*

How?


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## danielpalos (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...


By not paying ordinary income tax rates on capital gains.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



How are they getting their gain?


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## danielpalos (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


By not paying ordinary income tax rates on capital gains.  It helps if you understand the concepts, you try to argue.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



The lower rate doesn't help if they don't have a capital gain. How are they getting the capital gain?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Matthew said:


> Why do republican want black people to live under bridges and on street corners?
> 
> Why not fund education and make adding additional job making skills easier...Oh'noo''s we can't do that as that would mean the big bad government....Give me a break.


so why are you against school choice?  Just curious.


----------



## Norman (Apr 11, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > Why do republican want black people to live under bridges and on street corners?
> ...



If people had free choice they would have a chance to say no to him. Worst nightmare ever!


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


I am only referring to income from gains.  It should be taxed as ordinary income, and delete the term, capital gain from the, "tax preference rolls".


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



*I am only referring to income from gains.*

Right. Someone starts a business, risks their money, invests their time, creates jobs, becomes successful.
Then he wants to sell to take his gains and start a new business, but you want to take 40% of his gain.


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## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Markle said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > Why do republican want black people to live under bridges and on street corners?
> ...


it is typical libturd thinking.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Excessive CEO Pay for Dumb Luck
> 
> The compensation packages of the chief executive officers of America have been rising faster than just about any rational metric upon which they are supposedly based. “CEO pay grew an astounding 943% over the past 37 years,” according to a recent Economic Policy Institute analysis. EPI further observes this was a far faster growth rate than “the cost of living, the productivity of the economy, and the stock market.”
> 
> CEO compensation isn’t the pay for performance its advocates claim. Instead, it is unmoored from any rational basis. This makes it an inappropriate wealth transfer from shareholders to management.


why do you supposed that is?  Do you think the CEOs own the businesses for the majority of firms out there?  Or do you know there is a board that actually hires the CEO to the job?  And why would a board pay a CEO so much?  Do you even stop to consider the what's and if's?

What to Pay a CEO | Y Scouts

"Once you’ve chosen when to hire a CEO, what to look for in a CEO, and how to hire a CEO, you’re well on your way to hiring a CEO for your company. Once you’ve asked some insightful interview questions and chosen a few final candidates for the position, it’s time to decide what to pay a CEO.

The salary of a chief executive officer varies widely between companies. Here are five factors that can influence what to pay a CEO."


----------



## Dragonlady (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



If you sell your house for more than you paid for it, you've achieved a capital gain.  If you buy a business, break it apart and sell off the pieces, thereby ending any jobs associated with that business, you'll achieve a capital gain.  Any time you sell an asset for more than you paid for it, you achieve a capital gain, even if you did nothing to improve that asset or its value while you owned it.


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## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


dude, you haven't a clue.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


well then an actor decides his or her own pay, right?  why negotiate if you don't have a number in mind?  oh wait, that is exactly what a person looking for a CEO position does.   Exactly the same thingy.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



*If you sell your house for more than you paid for it, you've achieved a capital gain.*

So why does the Federal government deserve 30% or more of my home profit?
I'd like to use that money for retirement.


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## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


shareholders vote in the BOD's you fking idiot.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


the dude is one fked up socialist.  doesn't know what a CEO does or what their role is.  Too funny watching this in here.


----------



## Markle (Apr 11, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> The deficit has fallen every year since Obama raised taxes.



Lie


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Ordinary income; and, who cares as long as he didn't have to earn his "bread from the sweat of his own brow", but hired others to perform the actual work (ethic) from the Age of Iron.


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## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



*Ordinary income*

Right, to suppress business formation.

*and, who cares as long as he didn't have to earn his "bread from the sweat of his own brow", but hired others to perform the actual work*

Founders typically do more work than anyone they hire.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


a monopoly corporation sets the cost of the product sold, not the consumer through supply and demand.  That is why the US does not allow monopolies.


----------



## Markle (Apr 11, 2017)

regent said:


> Do Republicans still predict that Social Security will lead to communism?



Are you so desperate that you need to lie?  Why?

You lost, get over it.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


There is no suppressing anything; business is more serious; and, should require ordinary income tax rates for creation.  It could help Persons realize that they need to do better planning and not rely on tax breaks or cheap labor, to "make it".


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


or elite's and poor, there will always be poor.  Always, and there will always be someone or elitist dictator over them.  ALWAYS.. These fools in here think they can save the poor and they cheapen the poor by their observed belief.  They kill progress that would actually benefit the poor.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 11, 2017)

Why does the right wing complain about the cost of social services, which makes it possible?


----------



## Dragonlady (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



You took a tax deduction for your mortgage interest didn't you?  The means, in essence, you paid for the house without paying taxes on the income you used to pay your mortgage.  So that income gets taxed when you sell the house. 

In Canada, we don't get to claim a tax deduction for our mortgages, but in paying our mortgage with "after tax" dollars, we don't pay capital gains on the sale of our houses.  That capital gain is tax free, if you've owned and lived in the house for 1 year.  

This no tax on capital gain only applies to your principal residence.  If you own more than one property, one has to be designated as your principal residence for tax purposes.

Basically, you can pay the tax now or pay it later.  Americans pay it later, Canadians pay it now.  I think we've got the better deal.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


wow, are the members of the BOD usually part of the company they are board members of, or do they have other jobs and compensated by shareholders with stock options and a salary the shareholders determine?  what is it exactly do you know about this except nothing?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


and obummer fail caused stagnate wages.  why are you for something that ruins an economy if you are in here arguing otherwise?  you're confused.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


*
There is no suppressing anything;*

But there is......the higher the tax, the less business creation.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


If I don't like my pay and they won't increase my pay after making profits, I can go get another job at another company.  it's fking a simple concept that these idiots can't fathom.


----------



## Dragonlady (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Why does the right wing complain about the cost of social services, which makes it possible?



Well that way they keep the focus squarely on the poor as the source of middle class misery, and away from the 1% who are benefitting most from these wage supplementing social programs.


----------



## Dragonlady (Apr 11, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Where?  Nobody is giving people at the low end of the income spectrum at raise.  No one.  There's been far too many people willing to work for minimum wage or less, and rely on EIC's and food stamps, rather than have no work at all.  Those days are coming to an end now that full employment has just about been achieved.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...


*
You took a tax deduction for your mortgage interest didn't you?*

I did.
*
So that income gets taxed when you sell the house.*

I'm also getting taxed on inflation.

*In Canada, we don't get to claim a tax deduction for our mortgages, but in paying our mortgage with "after tax" dollars, we don't pay capital gains on the sale of our houses.  That capital gain is tax free, if you've owned and lived in the house for 1 year.* 

But that's unfair. LOL!
I buy stocks with after tax dollars, why should I have to pay a tax on any gain?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


business is more serious; and, should require ordinary income tax rates for creation.  It could help Persons realize that they need to do better planning and not rely on tax breaks or cheap labor, to "make it".


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


they only ensure that the worker bees stay on as worker bees.  Yep no work needed there.  especially when there are tens of thousands of employees.  That one CEO must represent each and everyone of them.  That means any lawsuits or any other legal decisions. R&D, Finances, price per share of stock.  no, they don't fking do a thing.  LOL at the idiots in here on the left.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



*and, should require ordinary income tax rates for creation.*

Why?

*It could help Persons realize that they need to do better planning and not rely on tax breaks*

Highest corporate tax rate in the world.

*or cheap labor*

I agree, we have to boot all the illegal aliens.


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## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


technically, a shareholder could vote for a janitor in that board position.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


WTF did that mean exactly?  isn't that the same thing?


----------



## Markle (Apr 11, 2017)

Redfish said:


> total bullshit. during Obama's 8 years the number of americans below the poverty level increased, the number on food stamps increased, the number unemployed or underemployed increased, the number on welfare increased.
> 
> As to jobs, the only jobs created by obozo the great Kenyan messiah, were part time minimum wage jobs with no future and no benefits.
> 
> ...


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Apr 11, 2017)

Rocko said:


> No one breaks the cycle of poverty because of government handouts. That's a concept liberals don't get.



No, it's a concept Liberals perfected


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## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


what are their salaries explained by then?


----------



## Markle (Apr 11, 2017)

Aries said:


> fake news- turn off fox they make up numbers.
> Unemployment was cut in half and the wealth gap shrunk.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


why wouldn't Juan have that opportunity?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > BrokeLoser said:
> ...


but if juan was going to school to get a degree in the business he works in, he would have the opportunity to bid on a job opening at a higher pay grade if his schooling set him up to achieve that job.  That is fking AMERICA!


----------



## Markle (Apr 11, 2017)

Redfish said:


> for the record, Obama did not cut taxes, he kept the Bush tax rates in place. You know, the evil Bush tax cuts.



Petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama raised taxes significantly.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


what is the percentage of social spending taking out SS and Medicare?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage competes favorably with the cost of social services.
> ...


raising minimum wage is a job killer.  Period.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


one wouldn't know that watching your posts in here.  You are fking clueless.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Not my favorite idea, but lots of support for an increase in minimum wage, though not to $15.
> Over 600 Economists Sign Letter In Support of $10.10 Minimum Wage: Economist Statement on the Federal Minimum Wage


job killer, produces the opposite of its intent.  you should read a book or two and learn that.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




without it, people with money would not invest in US companies.   How would that help our economy?   I get it that you hate rich successful people, but you are only hurting people like yourself with these dumb ideas.


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## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


why do companies avoid full time workers?  obummer fail.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


no they get shares of stock and they want to make money off of that stock.  Period.  They give a shit about the pay of the CEO.  They merely want a qualified CEO that earns them capital gains so they can invest, invest, invest.  and make money. NOthing about salaries.  you're lost.


----------



## Markle (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> High enough to have budget surpluses.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 11, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...




this thread proves a couple things
1. that the defective liberal gene is alive and well
2. that liberal indoctrination has been effective with the marginally capable
3. that the liberal posters do not understand anything about our economy, money, employment, that stock market, or life in general


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## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

regent said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...


no it was to provide options of working hard and reaping rewards for hard work.  creating the environment of progress.  there is nothing fair.  Fair is a libturd word that means they have no idea what they speak about.

equal opportunity is the only thing guaranteed in our country.  Nothing more.


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## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


no because you don't understand that every other employee received a similar raise as the lowest employee on the list.  It just lost the lower employee his/her job.  ooops more welfare.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


not if the cost of the product went up meaning the guy that just got an increase uses as much of his resources as he used to even though he got a raise.  No economic growth.  none, zip, and unless you can find an example of such a thing, let us all know by posting a link.


----------



## Markle (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> High enough to have budget surpluses.



Once AGAIN, my Progressive good friend works overtime to prove their ignorance of economic principals.

*What is the 'Laffer Curve'*
The Laffer Curve is a theory developed by supply-side economist Arthur Laffer to show the relationship between tax rates and the amount of tax revenue collected by governments. The curve is used to illustrate Laffer’s main premise that the more an activity such as production is taxed, the less of it is generated. Likewise, the less an activity is taxed, the more of it is generated.



*BREAKING DOWN 'Laffer Curve'*





Read more: Laffer Curve Laffer Curve 
Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


duh!!!!!! what do you think would need to happen to bring that money back into our country?  quickly now.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

thereisnospoon said:


> Eaglewings said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


it is what makes a libturd a libturd.


----------



## Markle (Apr 11, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> The Congressional Budget Office has stated categorically that cutting taxes DOES NOT increase employment, and that it does not increase revenues.



Please show us your reliable source and link.  

Do you know how the CBO arrives at their figures?  Where do they get their instructions?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



My posts are supported by facts and links.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...



Wages have been stagnant since long before him.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Why does the right wing complain about the cost of social services, which makes it possible?
> ...


no, the politicians are the source of middle class misery.  especially those on the losing left.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Not my favorite idea, but lots of support for an increase in minimum wage, though not to $15.
> ...



Gee I think I'll believe the 600 economists.  Funny how much you talk out of your ass.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

Redfish said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



It seems the right doesn't understand economics or how the world really works.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


not in here.


----------



## Dragonlady (Apr 11, 2017)

FACT CHECK: Do Tax Cuts Grow The Economy?



> . . .
> It's not just Gale. According to a 2012 report from the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service (referenced by the _New York Times_' David Leonhardt in a 2012 column), top marginal tax rates and economic growth have not appeared correlated over the past 60 years.
> 
> . . .
> ...



And this report from the Congressional Budget Office:

The Short-Term Effects of Tax Changes—Evidence for State Dependence: Working Paper 2016-03


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



Then you are blind or stupid.  You certainly back up nothing you say.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


no, they weren't.  Bush failed to perform correctly at the end of his second term, the banks were the issue and still are the issue and the same issue exists today.  but, obummer fail killed full time work and merit increases.  sorry fella.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



Link?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


sure, keep telling yourself that while the ones of us on the right correct the economic situation here by electing in the proper talent to prevail.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


what is it you want a link of?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



So far you seem to be going down the bush road.  You aren't smart enough to learn from failure.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



The silliness you are typing.  Can't back it up?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


again, Bush listened to democrats like his father did.  That was his failure.  Dodd and Frank can explain through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


well you have to explain what you found in error that you wish a link for.  can't you explain what it is you're looking for?  Why did the banking industry need a bailout?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

For most workers, real wages have barely budged for decades


----------



## Dragonlady (Apr 11, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



And that's a false narrative.  Obama added 200,000 *FULL TIME *jobs every month from 2011 up until March of 2017.  Not even in office 3 months and already Republicans are killing Obama's job creation.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 11, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


Then why did the GDP not improve?  why is he the only president to fail there?  They weren't full time jobs, they were part time jobs.  Post up a link.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



Were they?  Link?


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2017)

How have the Democrats lifted blacks over the last 30 years? I can think of nothing, Obama sure didn't help. 
Barack Obama's presidency did not improve the lives of black Americans

How Obama Failed Black Americans

Democrats hate poor blacks the proof keep coming.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> How have the Democrats lifted blacks over the last 30 years? I can think of nothing, Obama sure didn't help.
> Barack Obama's presidency did not improve the lives of black Americans
> 
> How Obama Failed Black Americans
> ...



How have republicans?


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Aren't they mostly minimum wage jobs that Democrats are now complaining about?

Over 80% Of Jobs Added In January Were Minimum Wage Earners | Zero Hedge

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/28/...low-wage-jobs-than-better-paid-ones.html?_r=0


----------



## sealybobo (Apr 11, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...



Then win over the people in the city.  Step one, put some fucking jobs there rather than sending them to the white burbs and Mexico.  Step 2, hire black people.  

Are you suggesting that most of the people in a black city get welfare?  Then you are fool because they don't.  So then most people in the city would go along with you and your fucked up ideas if they worked.  They don't so even working black people reject you.  We all reject you.  I hate fish.  LOL


----------



## sealybobo (Apr 11, 2017)

people on welfare and foodstamps don't even vote.  If they did Trump wouldn't have won

And what percent of Detroiters are on foodstamps?  

*About 1 in 7 Michigan residents get food stamps*

*In 2005, about 9 percent of Michigan households participated in SNAP, according to U.S. Census estimates.

That increased to 19 percent by the end of 2010.  Right after the Bush recession fully kicked in.  

Currently, about 15 percent of Michigan residents -- slightly under 1.5 million people -- receive benefits.

I want to see Trump fix this.  He said he would.  What's he going to do?  Looks like you are blaming the citizens on foodstamps.  Typical.
*


----------



## sealybobo (Apr 11, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



No excuses.


----------



## sealybobo (Apr 11, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> How have the Democrats lifted blacks over the last 30 years? I can think of nothing, Obama sure didn't help.
> Barack Obama's presidency did not improve the lives of black Americans
> 
> How Obama Failed Black Americans
> ...


What have Republicans done to win them over?

I can tell you liberal companies during the time of affirmative action hired a lot of blacks they might not normally hired because they didn't speak or dress well.  No republican is giving that black person a chance.  You aren't hiring them as an importer/exporter even back when Bush was president and your industry was one of the rare industries that did better under Bush than Clinton.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > How have the Democrats lifted blacks over the last 30 years? I can think of nothing, Obama sure didn't help.
> ...



The topic is why do Democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare? Democrats have championed themselves saviors to the black community, but really have done nothing. Why is that? Why have the Democrats failed the black community?


----------



## sealybobo (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > How have the Democrats lifted blacks over the last 30 years? I can think of nothing, Obama sure didn't help.
> ...



signed by President John F. Kennedy on 6 March 1961, which included a provision that government contractors "take _affirmative action_ to ensure that applicants are employed, and employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin."[19] It was used to promote actions that achieve non-discrimination. In 1965, President Lyndon B. Johnson issued Executive Order 11246 which required government employers to take "affirmative action" to "hire without regard to race, religion and national origin". This prevented employers from discriminating against members of disadvantaged groups. In 1967, gender was added to the anti-discrimination list.[20]

Affirmative action is intended to promote the opportunities of defined minority groups within a society to give them equal access to that of the majority population.[21]

It is often instituted for government and educational settings to ensure that certain designated "minority groups" within a society are able to participate in all provided opportunities including promotional, educational, and training opportunities.[22]

The stated justification for affirmative action by its proponents is that it helps to compensate for past discrimination, persecution or exploitation by the ruling class of a culture,[23] and to address existing discrimination.[24]

Us liberals came up with this stuff and it was conservatives who fought it.  They said by helping a disadvantaged black you were hurt a poor white person who may or may not be more qualified for the job.  Oh poooor white people.  We got it tough.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



Democrats have tried with varied success.  I'm not sure republicans even try.  They control the government and so far not much.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...



For what, Obama's failures? I didn't make any excuses.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Tried? LOL! Is that what you have been told, then why is the reality this: 
Barack Obama's presidency did not improve the lives of black Americans

How Obama Failed Black Americans


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



So republicans don't try.   What they working on now?


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > How have the Democrats lifted blacks over the last 30 years? I can think of nothing, Obama sure didn't help.
> ...



Go start a thread and find out. I am following the topic. So why do the Democrats hate poor blacks?


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Why don't you start a thread on it and quit trying to derail the topic of this thread? 

It seems you are diverting the topic because the Democratic party hates black people and you are at a loss on how to prove otherwise, other than to deflect.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


I've not seen any evidence they do.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Well then you are a partisan nut job. The evidence has been clear, sorry your partisanship puts you at a huge disadvantage.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



I'm an independent.  Just call it as I see it.


----------



## Dragonlady (Apr 11, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> The topic is why do Democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare? Democrats have championed themselves saviors to the black community, but really have done nothing. Why is that? Why have the Democrats failed the black community?



The topic is a fallacy.  Democrats don't hate poor people of any colour, nor do they want to keep them on welfare.  

Democrats have NOT fashioned themselves as saviours of the blacks, but rather the party that is willing to give black people a chance.  But systemic racism is insidious and disguises many forms of discrimination.

Conservative are always railing against affirmative action in college admissions, claiming that it keeps more qualifed white applicants out.  But they say nothing of the practice of admitting "legacy" students.  You think W got into Harvard and Yale with his C+ grades on merit?  He got in because his Daddy was a Yale Graduate and the Speaker of the House.  

Ivy League schools make a practice of admitting the sons and daughters of graduates.  Is this fair to the guy who is the first in his family to go to college who is turned away because the pot smoking ne'er do well "legacy" needs to go to Yale?  No, it isn't.  But conservatives don't oppose this kind of white affirmative action.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


why not?  why should capitalists get a tax break for simply working their capital?  they have to work it, anyway.  labor should get a tax break for actually working.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



LOL!!!!!!!


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > The topic is why do Democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare? Democrats have championed themselves saviors to the black community, but really have done nothing. Why is that? Why have the Democrats failed the black community?
> ...



The Democratic Party has kept the black community poor, the party has done nothing to lift them out of poverty, in fact all they want t do his give out government money in exchange for the black vote. The Democrats run the universities, so if preferential is given it is by the Democrats.


----------



## P@triot (Apr 11, 2017)

Eaglewings said:


> So Redfish you want the black babies to be born, but don't want to feed, or cloth them until they are able to themselves..I am a pro life democrat who also believes in what happens after the baby is born..
> 
> Maybe you can throw them a crumb every now and then..


Maybe _you_ should buy into the notion of personal responsibility. Gasp! Imagine that!

Maybe _you_ should provide for those children since you seem to care soooooooo much.....


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



*why should capitalists get a tax break for simply working their capital?* 

Highest corporate rate in the world...where is the break?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


nothing but diversion?  why should capitalists get a tax break for simply working their capital?  they have to work it, anyway.  labor should get a tax break for actually working.


----------



## Dragonlady (Apr 11, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



The Democratic Party has done nothing of the kind.  Neither party has done much to lift black people out of poverty, but to suggest that this is some sort of conspiracy to keep black people in poverty, is a grossly ignorant idea.

Conservatives have done LESS than nothing to lift people out of poverty, voting against any sort of assistance or subsidies.  They're even cutting school lunches for poor kids.  All of cut and spend ideas promoted by Republicans increase poverty, and have made it worse.  And then they blame the poor for the poverty that conservative policies inflict on them.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Why should they be punished, if the punishment reduces revenues to the government and reduces business formation?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Probably because Republicans are less likely to separate our people into groups and decide who they will help and who they will not based on how many votes they can conger up.  Our theory is everybody is an American, one not to be treated different than another.  


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## danielpalos (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


so they will do a better job; a high rate of business failure only wastes money.


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## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
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I agree the answer is one that lifts all the poor. But I don't see republicans championing anytihing like that.


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## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

Black Women Face Devastating Losses If Obamacare Is Repealed | The Huffington Post


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## Dragonlady (Apr 11, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



REALLY????  

Every time it is suggested that the minimum wage be increased, Republicans increase earned income credits which shift the cost of providing for low income workers from their employers, to the middle class.  Then they blame the poor workers for being "takers".

Why are the working poor the only people who are not entitled to raises?  Why do we try to control how they spend their money, by giving them food stamps to supplement their incomes and then castigating them for spending YOUR TAX DOLLARS foolishly? 

Why not have their own employers pay them an appropriate amount and let them spend it however they choose, just like you and I?


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## sealybobo (Apr 11, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



It was bushanomics that hurt black people you schmuck.  Notice you won't admit Obama was handed a great fucking recession.  The greatest recession since the great fucking depression, but you won't give Obama credit for getting out of it or handing Trump a fairly good economy.  But you will give Trump credit for everything he does.  Interesting.

In fact give it a couple months and Republicans like you will be saying this is a great fucking economy and the only ones who aren't doing well need to go back to school, look for a new job or start their own business.  Well that was true before Trump.  Trump promised these poorly educated blue collar idiots better jobs.  Did he lie?  Of course.  Because we are practically at zero unemployment.  Anyone who can't find a good paying job probably doesn't deserve a good paying job.  Any factory jobs available pay $10 or $15 at best.  Trump said he was going to make America great again.  Those people who made good money before Bush fucked them made a lot more than $15.  So how is Trump going to make America great again?  

That means your company is looking for an engineer.  They can't find an engineer but there are lots of blue collar schmucks that make up the REAL unemployment number which Trump claimed was around 25%.  So how is Trump going to help the people who've given up trying to find work?


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## sealybobo (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Black Women Face Devastating Losses If Obamacare Is Repealed | The Huffington Post



This is one reason why I am glad Republicans won.  Stupid black people.  They didn't show up because Hillary isn't tan enough and they didn't think it mattered well they are about to find out how much of a difference there is between Republicans and Democrats.


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## sealybobo (Apr 11, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > The topic is why do Democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare? Democrats have championed themselves saviors to the black community, but really have done nothing. Why is that? Why have the Democrats failed the black community?
> ...



In their defense, Ivy League schools are private schools.  They can do whatever they want.  As long as University of Michigan and Michigan State University don't do that.


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## sealybobo (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


Isn't that interesting.  Papa tries to paint himself as an independent and everyone else is a partisan nut job.  I sense he is more a right wing partisan hack than he is a moderate and now I see he's calling another independent a partisan nut job.  

Do you think Papa can put into words how the GOP are racist?  Do you think he would dare?  He sure likes to swallow right wing talking points and spew that bullshit but I never hear him be honest about Republicans.  Why is that papa?


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## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



His posts sure sounded republican...


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## sealybobo (Apr 11, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



Here is another way you right wingers are such masters of spin.  Planned Parenthood helps a lot of black women.  A LOT!  But if you look up right wing spin it will tell you that Planned Parenthood targets blacks to murder their babies.  What a hoot!  And I bet you buy that argument.


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## sealybobo (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I love these USMB CONServatives who say I didn't vote for Bush, Trump is a RINO, I'm a moderate/independent, yada yada.  Papa has proven himself to be a Republican.  He's not a horrible right wing nutjob like I pretend he is but make no mistake his penis leans right.


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## sealybobo (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
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He said he liked Alan Colmes after he died but couldn't tell me one thing he agreed with him on.  He just liked Alan because Alan took whatever shit Hannity gave him with a lot of class.  Papa wishes us liberals would show more class when listening to conservative lies.


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## francoHFW (Apr 11, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Got a problem with facts? And this applies to all the executives' pay being out of control, dingbat dupe.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 11, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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> > sealybobo said:
> ...



You don't have to agree with somebody to like them.  Don't you  have conservative friends, family members  or coworkers?  

There are liberals I do like and Colmes happened to  be one of them.  He presented the liberal point of view in  an articulate and intelligent way, something very rare among  liberals.  To be honest, I always liked James Carville as well.  I don't  agree with   anything he  says, but he seems like a  happy go lucky guy that I wouldn't mind having a  beer with.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...



The school lunches were moved to a state level because it was more efficient and no kids starved, remarkable! 

Obama failed, he had the perfect chance and did what Clinton did...nothing, just placated them to get their vote.


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## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
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Good point.  I find you likeable even though we seldom agree.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Not sure what your point is. We are discussing Democrats not Republicans, you ought to give. It, its own thread.


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## sealybobo (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
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That's because he's a dumb con not a mean one


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 11, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Here is another way you right wingers are such masters of spin. Planned Parenthood helps a lot of black women. A LOT! But if you look up right wing spin it will tell you that Planned Parenthood targets blacks to murder their babies. What a hoot! And I bet you buy that argument.



Now that's a hoot.  Saying  Planned  Parenthood helps  a lot of black  women is  like  saying  Hitler helped a lot of Jews. 

Could you image the outrage if Republicans supported an organization that not  only killed blacks by the thousands, but was founded by a person like Margaret Sanger who sought the elimination  of the  black race?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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Over tax the successful ones....to make them do better?


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## sealybobo (Apr 11, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


How about this? This is a stupid thread. It suggests us liberals don't want blacks to have jobs because they'll then vote Republican if they are working. Not true. Most working folk vote democratic.

And if you want to win over blacks then white companies in metro Detroit need to start hiring more detroiters. I would like nothing more but those racist Republican hiring managers won't hire black people. I hear them talk. I'm a white middle age white collar worker. Racist Republicans speak freely around me


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## Markle (Apr 11, 2017)

jc456 said:


> duh!!!!!! what do you think would need to happen to bring that money back into our country? quickly now.



One year amnesty, no corporate tax, followed by revised corporate income tax of 10%.


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## sealybobo (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Successful people did just fine in the 90s before the unnecessary bush tax cuts.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Bush didn't cut the corporate tax rate.


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## sealybobo (Apr 11, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Here is another way you right wingers are such masters of spin. Planned Parenthood helps a lot of black women. A LOT! But if you look up right wing spin it will tell you that Planned Parenthood targets blacks to murder their babies. What a hoot! And I bet you buy that argument.
> ...


Ha ha. They pay for how many abortions? And would you prefer shaniqua on welfare with. 4 kids has another?


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## sealybobo (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


The bush tax breaks were supposed to be temporary


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## BluesLegend (Apr 11, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Stockholders and boards decide what to pay their executives, you know the owners of the companies. Its none of your damn business that's for sure. The federal government controls $4 trillion a year, go busy yourself cleaning up that mess and leave privately owned corporations alone.


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## BluesLegend (Apr 11, 2017)

Liberal's hatred of corporations and their war on business is what destroyed the Democratic party. What's freaking weird is, public and private union pensions are one of the biggest investors in the very corporations liberals are attacking.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



Why? Permanent tax cuts work much better.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 11, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Their fate  is in their  own  hands like you and I.  Government  should not be telling companies what they pay their  employees no more than government telling them how much vacation they should have,  how many sick days they should get, or what days should be considered paid holidays.  

I never got a raise because government  forced my employer  to  give me one.  I got raises because of my performance at work, length of time with the company, my attendance record, or because I learned how to do more jobs for the  company.  That's why employers give raises.  If you are working for  any length of time for  somebody, and you never get a raise, it's probably because  your  employer  doesn't value  your  services, and it's not up to government  to force them to.


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## sealybobo (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


When? The rich have never been richer. Time to fix the middle class


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 11, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



No, but if she opts for an abortion, she should pay for it herself--not with taxpayer money.


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## Markle (Apr 11, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> And this report from the Congressional Budget Office:
> 
> The Short-Term Effects of Tax Changes—Evidence for State Dependence: Working Paper 2016-03



First, short-term is irrelevant, immaterial, and unimportant.  The concern is over a long term.

Front page of your supposed supporting information:

"The information in this paper is preliminary and is being circulated to stimulate discussion and critical comment as developmental work for analysis for the Congress. The views expressed here should not be interpreted as CBO’s."


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 11, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



Actually the trend is to hire black workers.  Blacks  work  for less money than  whites, so companies are hiring more blacks today and  even replacing their mostly white  crew.  Several  of our  customers have  done that already.  A  few years ago, the company would be mixed but  mostly white.  A few years later, the company is  mostly black.


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## Markle (Apr 11, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> When? The rich have never been richer. Time to fix the middle class



In other words, fix the disaster left behind by petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 11, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > The topic is why do Democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare? Democrats have championed themselves saviors to the black community, but really have done nothing. Why is that? Why have the Democrats failed the black community?
> ...



Yeah, you really have to watch those liberal colleges.  You can't trust a one  of them.


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## sealybobo (Apr 11, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


I've known companies to underpay people who do a really good job. Depends on management style. A lot of companies have dick managers. I've worked for a lot of bad companies. Thank god I work for a good one now. The best way to raise wages is with low unemployment. Then companies have to pay better


Ray From Cleveland said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


But she's saving society money by aborting. If we don't pay now we pay more later.


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## sealybobo (Apr 11, 2017)

Markle said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > When? The rich have never been richer. Time to fix the middle class
> ...


How? By giving the rich more tax breaks, fucking you on 30% of your social security and raising your medicare?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 11, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> I've known companies to underpay people who do a really good job. Depends on management style. A lot of companies have dick managers. I've worked for a lot of bad companies. Thank god I work for a good one now. The best way to raise wages is with low unemployment. Then companies have to pay better



Another way to raise wages is to remove the foreigners who are here keeping our wages down.  



sealybobo said:


> But she's saving society money by aborting. If we don't pay now we pay more later.



So that justifies  taxpayers paying  for something many object to?


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## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



Still trying to derail the thread, I can see why you would.


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## francoHFW (Apr 11, 2017)

BluesLegend said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


If you tax over 10 million 80%, their pay goes down magically. That's what's missing.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



And yours sound like a left wing democrat.


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## Markle (Apr 11, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> And that's a false narrative. Obama added 200,000 *FULL TIME *jobs every month from 2011 up until March of 2017. Not even in office 3 months and already Republicans are killing Obama's job creation.



How is that possible given the facts?


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## BluesLegend (Apr 11, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> BluesLegend said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Its not your money you mooching sponge liberal. Nobody should be taxed at that ridiculous rate. What you dumb asses would achieve is what used to happen, the wealthy piled their wealth into long term investments and never touched it to avoid your damn taxes. That stifled investment and risk taking in new businesses, thus stifling job creation, thus the poor and middle class had fewer opportunities.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



You have to agree with them to like them? That is about the dumbest thing you have posted. I liked him because he was intelligent, he isn't anything like you.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I love Carville, he and his wife prove that opposites attract.


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## francoHFW (Apr 11, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > I've known companies to underpay people who do a really good job. Depends on management style. A lot of companies have dick managers. I've worked for a lot of bad companies. Thank god I work for a good one now. The best way to raise wages is with low unemployment. Then companies have to pay better
> ...


Or the GOP can keep this mess going FOREVER. Pass the gd Dem Immigration bill of 2010 with unfakeable SS ID card and END this GOP BS, dupe. The GOP have blocked that forever. Commie plot.


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## NYcarbineer (Apr 11, 2017)

1700 posts later and the absurd ignorance of the OP remains.


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## francoHFW (Apr 11, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


Lies are lies, and you dupes believe a giant pile of them. Here's hoping Trump learns that and jettisons Bannon and the lies and goes middle party.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



I like Carville and Colmes, sounds like you are the piece of crap that is lying. You on the left are just intolerant of others opinions, now go crawl back into your cave, Neanderthal.


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## francoHFW (Apr 11, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


I'm just intolerant of the lies  and bs propaganda that are the base of all your misinformed "opinions", dupes... Most of my friends are dupes, but it's hard when many hate you for the facts. So I don't talk politics with them.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Apr 11, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?


"Why do democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare?"

Straw man fallacy.

Loaded question fallacy.

Ridiculous rightwing lie.


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## Markle (Apr 11, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Then win over the people in the city. Step one, put some fucking jobs there rather than sending them to the white burbs and Mexico. Step 2, hire black people.
> 
> Are you suggesting that most of the people in a black city get welfare? Then you are fool because they don't. So then most people in the city would go along with you and your fucked up ideas if they worked. They don't so even working black people reject you. We all reject you. I hate fish. LOL



Sealybobo, Step one: how do you "PUT" jobs in an area?   Step 2, are you suggesting discrimination is a good thing now?

Curious, I didn't know we have black cities and white cities.  Do we have brown cities too?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 11, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



The Dem plan   is nothing but 3/4 amnesty  which  they would love the Republicans to fall  for.  It's not going to work because Republicans are smarter than Democrats.  

Our plan?  Put in a President that means  business when it comes to immigration.  Put  in a President  that's going to give Democrats  the middle finger when they start their racist, xenophobia bullshit.  Put in a President that will strictly enforce our laws  and  let outsiders know they are not welcome in our country. 

Wait a minute!  We did that, and it's working out just fine!  It's working better than lib amnesty programs designed to buy votes for the Democrat party.  Who would  have  thought????


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## Markle (Apr 11, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



Are you inferring that after HALF A CENTURY, we still need affirmative action?  Why?

As for civil rights legislation.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


*
When?*

Every time. Milton Friedman wrote all about it.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 11, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



Or at the very least get along.  

I have leftist members of my family.  We  argue  politics all the time, but I love them just as much as the conservative members of my family.  If you are  going  to hate people  close to you because  of politics, it's time to  give  up politics and look for a new hobby.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...



*The best way to raise wages is with low unemployment. Then companies have to pay better*

Exactly! Boot 15 million illegal aliens if you want to raise the wages of the poor.


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## Markle (Apr 11, 2017)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> "Why do democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare?"
> 
> Straw man fallacy.
> 
> ...



What effect has the eight years of petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama had on the plight of blacks?  Are more or fewer on welfare, food stamps and other subsidies than when he took office?


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## Markle (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Democrats have tried with varied success. I'm not sure republicans even try. They control the government and so far not much.



Where is this success Democrats have had with elevating blacks?


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## francoHFW (Apr 11, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


It's not working at all...as always. There's only one solution.


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## Markle (Apr 11, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> The Democratic Party has done nothing of the kind.



Your comment is in reference to Democrats making Blacks more reliant on government entitlements.

Indisputably, it is the War on Poverty and Great Society of former President Lyndon Johnson which did the most damage to the formerly strong black family unit.

BY WALTER E. WILLIAMS 
RELEASE: WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 26, 2005, AND THEREAFTER

AMMUNITION FOR POVERTY PIMPS

In the wake of Hurricane Katrina's destruction of New Orleans, President Bush gave America's poverty pimps and race hustlers new ammunition. The president said, "As all of us saw on television, there is also some deep, persistent poverty in this region as well. And that poverty has roots in a history of racial discrimination, which cut off generations from the opportunity of America. We have a duty to confront this poverty with bold action."

The president's espousing such a vision not only supplies ammunition to poverty pimps and race hustlers, it focuses attention away from the true connection between race and poverty.

Though I grow weary of pointing it out, let's do it again. Let's examine some numbers readily available from the Census Bureau's 2004 Current Population Survey and ask some questions. There's one segment of the black population that suffers only a 9.9 percent poverty rate, and only 13.7 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. There's another segment that suffers a 39.5 percent poverty rate, and 58.1 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. Among whites, one segment suffers a 6 percent poverty rate, and only 9.9 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. The other segment suffers a 26.4 percent poverty rate, and 52 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. What do you think distinguishes the high and low poverty populations among blacks?

Would you buy an explanation that it's because white people practice discrimination against one segment of the black population and not the other or one segment had a history of slavery and not the other? You'd have to be a lunatic to buy such an explanation. The only distinction between both the black and white populations is marriage -- lower poverty in married-couple families.

*In 1960, only 28 percent of black females ages 15 to 44 were never married and illegitimacy among blacks was 22 percent. Today, the never-married rate is 56 percent and illegitimacy stands at 70 percent. If today's black family structure were what it was in 1960, the overall black poverty rate would be in or near single digits. The weakening of the black family structure, and its devastating consequences, have nothing to do with the history of slavery or racial discrimination.*

Dr. Charles Murray, an American Enterprise Institute scholar, argues in an article titled "Rediscovering the Underclass" in the Institute's On the Issues series (October 2005) that self-destructive behavior has become the hallmark of the underclass. He says that unemployment in the underclass is not caused by the lack of jobs but by the inability to get up every morning and go to work. In 1954, the percentage of black males, age 20 to 24, not looking for work was nine percent. In 1999, it rose to 30 percent, and that was at a time when employers were beating the bushes for employees. Murray adds that "the statistical reality is that people who get into the American job market and stay there seldom remain poor unless they do something self-destructive.

I share Murray's sentiment expressed at the beginning of his article where he says, "Watching the courage of ordinary low-income people as they deal with the aftermath of Katrina and Rita, it is hard to decide which politicians are more contemptible -- Democrats who are rediscovering poverty and blaming it on George W. Bush, or Republicans who are rediscovering poverty and claiming that the government can fix it." Since President Johnson's War on Poverty, controlling for inflation, the nation has spent $9 trillion on about 80 anti-poverty programs. To put that figure in perspective, last year's U.S. GDP was $11 trillion; $9 trillion exceeds the GDP of any nation except the U.S. Hurricanes Katrina and Rita uncovered the result of the War on Poverty -- dependency and self-destructive behavior.

*Guess what the president [President George Walker Bush] and politicians from both parties are asking the American people to do? If you said, "Enact programs that will sustain and enhance dependency," go to the head of the class.*

Ammunition For Poverty Pimps


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## Markle (Apr 11, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> When? The rich have never been richer. Time to fix the middle class



Didn't petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama just have EIGHT YEARS to do just that but his policies made the rich richer.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 11, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Arrests at Mexico border reach lowest level since 2000

Exclusive: Immigration judges headed to 12 U.S. cities to speed deportations

MATH: Worst Case Scenario -- Trump's Wall MUCH Cheaper than Illegal Immigration


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## Markle (Apr 11, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> If you tax over 10 million 80%, their pay goes down magically. That's what's missing.



How does that help our economy overall?


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## francoHFW (Apr 11, 2017)

Markle said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > If you tax over 10 million 80%, their pay goes down magically. That's what's missing.
> ...


It gives us tons of money to invest in training and education for 3-6 million tech jobs going begging, make us more like Germany instead of an oligarchy with everyone selling cheeseburgers and insurance to each other- AND invest in our collapsing infrastructure. That's what we need to take advantage of the new markets  from free trade, and the GOP has blocked for 35 years...


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## francoHFW (Apr 11, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


A) Mainly because March is always the lowest, they're scared by rhetoric, half the illegals just overstay visas, nobody thinks the wall will pass, dupe. There are no more being deported than under Obama, just getting harder because so many real criminals have been deported and now they're going after worthy working parents and bs. Creepy. Great job!! If you believe bs. propaganda.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 11, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



There will be a wall, it will start being constructed in less than a  year.  What  do you want  to bet that our agents will have less people  trying to get into the country than the last decade or more in the coming  months?  Trump didn't even start to cut funds to sanctuary cites  and states just yet, but that's coming too, and illegals will have nowhere to hide.  

You  see, Trump doesn't have to  create  new laws or penalties.  All he has to do is his  job; something the last  President wouldn't do.  Our laws  do work if we  have  real leadership that will heavily enforce those  laws.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 11, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


 McConnell says it's not happening.


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## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



Probably on this thread.  I can think of ways dems have tried to help the poor.  Repubs I have nothing for at this time.


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## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



The price of food going up will hurt the poor, not to mention our exports.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Facts! Lol! You wouldn't know a fact if it bit you on the behind.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2017)

Markle said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > When? The rich have never been richer. Time to fix the middle class
> ...



Barack drove it to an all time high! Sealy can't accept that fact.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Wasn't it the left that wanted to make sure that the illegal immigrants weren't hired by evil business?


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



And you are liberal in most threads. 

I can't think of any way the left has helped the poor, all they have done have found ways to keep more people on subsidized something. 

Good job!


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



*It gives us tons of money to invest in training and education for 3-6 million tech jobs going begging*

The Federal government took in over $3.3 trillion last year and spent about $4 trillion.
They did such an excellent job that you want to give them even more money? DERP!


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## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



And you can't think of ways republicans have helped them either.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I didn't make any claims did I? The Democrats are the ones that claim they help the poor and blacks, I call BS. All you have done is divert the thread away from your Democrats.


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## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



Wouldn't it be nice if one party was able to do more to help them?


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## Brain357 (Apr 11, 2017)

Under Democratic Presidents, Minorities Make Economic Gains - And So Do Whites | Scholars Strategy Network

Under Democratic presidents, black families’ incomes grew on average $895 dollars annually, but grew only by $142 dollars under Republicans. The black unemployment rate fell by a net 7.9 percentage points across the 26 years of Democratic leadership, but went up by a net of 13.7 points during 28 years of Republican presidencies. Across the years of Democratic leadership, black poverty declined by a net of 23.6 percentage points, but grew by three points when Republicans held the White House.


----------



## Lastamender (Apr 11, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?



I see what you did here. Do you think Tommy will?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


no more "UnderTaxing" for mere speculation!  end the capital gains distinction for income.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Under Democratic Presidents, Minorities Make Economic Gains - And So Do Whites | Scholars Strategy Network
> 
> Under Democratic presidents, black families’ incomes grew on average $895 dollars annually, but grew only by $142 dollars under Republicans. The black unemployment rate fell by a net 7.9 percentage points across the 26 years of Democratic leadership, but went up by a net of 13.7 points during 28 years of Republican presidencies. Across the years of Democratic leadership, black poverty declined by a net of 23.6 percentage points, but grew by three points when Republicans held the White House.



So fortunate that Presidents control every aspect of our economy,  and Congress nor  Senate does.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> The price of food going up will hurt the poor, not to mention our exports.



You can thank your  local environmentalist for  that.  Increasing food  prices  is  what  happens  when your environmentalists promote burning up your food supply for fuel instead of oil.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Well we know that it won't be the Democrats or Republicans, maybe you can find a party that will.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



The proper tax rate for capital gains is 0%.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 11, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I'm  going  to  love  this:  how  did  Democrats try to  help the  poor?


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## danielpalos (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


there should be no capital gains preference.


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## francoHFW (Apr 11, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Check my sig, all fact. More than you referred in years.


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## francoHFW (Apr 11, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


ACA, min wage, SS, UE, HEAP, Food stamps, welfare, ay caramba, fool. All the stuff you dupes bitch about endlessly...


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


The GOP has cut taxes on the rich so much we have a flat tax now with the rich getting all the new wealth, superdupe.


----------



## Markle (Apr 11, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> It gives us tons of money to invest in training and education for 3-6 million tech jobs going begging, make us more like Germany instead of an oligarchy with everyone selling cheeseburgers and insurance to each other- AND invest in our collapsing infrastructure. That's what we need to take advantage of the new markets from free trade, and the GOP has blocked for 35 years...



You wouldn't collect a dime more in income taxes.  In fact, you would probably collect less.  People on welfare easily figured out how to game the system.  They quit getting married so they could collect more in benefits.  You don't think multi-millionaires, their attorneys, accountants along with the companies wouldn't find an easy work around?

*How Bill Clinton Helped Boost CEO Pay*
A law he championed to curb compensation has backfired -- and pay packages have exploded
November 27, 2006, 12:00 AM EST
From 
https://www.bloomberg.com/businessweek
 Subscribe  Reprints
Bill Clinton had what he thought was a great idea to curb the soaring paychecks of the nation's executives. It was 1991, shortly after the launch of his Presidential campaign, and he had just read a best seller on corporate greed by compensation guru Graef Crystal.

Clinton's brainstorm: Use the tax code to curb excessive pay. Companies at the time were allowed to deduct all compensation to top executives. Clinton wanted to permit companies to write off amounts over $1 million only if executives hit specified performance goals. He called Crystal for his thoughts. "Utterly stupid," the consultant says he told the future President.

*THE SHAME GAME 
Now, 13 years after Clinton's plan became law, the results are clear: It didn't work. Over the law's first decade, average compensation for chief executives at companies in Standard & Poor's 500-stock index soared from $3.7 million to $9.1 million, according to a 2005 Harvard Law School study. The law contains so many obvious loopholes, says Crystal, that "in 10 minutes even Forrest Gump could think up five ways around it."

Read more:  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2006-11-26/how-bill-clinton-helped-boost-ceo-pay
*


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 11, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Or category. Should be tax free.


----------



## sealybobo (Apr 12, 2017)

Markle said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Then win over the people in the city. Step one, put some fucking jobs there rather than sending them to the white burbs and Mexico. Step 2, hire black people.
> ...


Ever hear of white flight? Those are black cities. Don't deny your history


----------



## sealybobo (Apr 12, 2017)

Markle said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > When? The rich have never been richer. Time to fix the middle class
> ...


Like what policies of Obama's made the rich richer?

Our wages haven't gone up since the late 70s. That's when Reagan hit the scene


----------



## sealybobo (Apr 12, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


I've talked to such brainwashed Republicans the last couple days. Unable to rationally discuss the facts.

When I tried to point out how Republicans told Obama no when he asked to bomb Syria I got two responses, no three


A. He's a Muslim
B. He was weak
C. I must be watching MSNBC.


----------



## sealybobo (Apr 12, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


What did he do? I can tell you what Republicans did


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...




*make us more like Germany instead of an oligarchy with everyone selling cheeseburgers and insurance to each other*

To funny Franco 


.


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 12, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...




You forgot about the third he didn't need to ask... 


And he asked them weeks later,  Trump bombed them days latter 

.


----------



## sealybobo (Apr 12, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


You mean affordable healthcare?

Everything else we wanted to try you Republicans said no. No let's see the wealth gap shrink under GOP rule. It won't but you won't care because you're a fucking republican


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

bear513 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


Also fact. The GOP has been holding their rich brainwashers' taxes down for 35 years and are still waiting for it to trickle down like it never has...


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Under Democratic Presidents, Minorities Make Economic Gains - And So Do Whites | Scholars Strategy Network
> 
> Under Democratic presidents, black families’ incomes grew on average $895 dollars annually, but grew only by $142 dollars under Republicans. The black unemployment rate fell by a net 7.9 percentage points across the 26 years of Democratic leadership, but went up by a net of 13.7 points during 28 years of Republican presidencies. Across the years of Democratic leadership, black poverty declined by a net of 23.6 percentage points, but grew by three points when Republicans held the White House.




Try again Brian...


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



What was the alternative?  We didn't have the internet 35 years ago,  or say NAFTA...


The world was coming and we all knew it


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

bear513 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Under Democratic Presidents, Minorities Make Economic Gains - And So Do Whites | Scholars Strategy Network
> ...


Just Reaganism rolling on, and the middle class losing jobs during the Booosh depression. He didn't PASS ANY POLICIES except the stimulus and ACA...there's your brainwashing kicking in again...


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



It looks like Obama care was a big culprit after all and you forgot about the feds dumping in 85 plus billion a month of money we still have to pay interest on



.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

bear513 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...


We've been screwing up free trade for 25 years by GOP blocking investment in education/training and infrastructure...to save their precious rich.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

bear513 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...


All experts say ACA hasn't hurt income. Give up. He didn't pass any policies that hurt. He didn't pass any. Just GOP BS.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

bear513 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...


That money was all the GOP would allow- they love THAT.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 12, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Like what policies of Obama's made the rich richer?
> 
> Our wages haven't gone up since the late 70s. That's when Reagan hit the scene



It's called Quantitive Easing.  In case you don't  feel like  looking  it up, it's when the feds pumped trillions of dollars into the stock market artificially causing it to be much stronger than the actual economy.  Many people knew the game was rigged--mostly large investors.  It made the rich  even  richer.


----------



## sealybobo (Apr 12, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Like what policies of Obama's made the rich richer?
> ...


Isn't that also how he got us out of the great bush recession? This is probably another damned if he did damned if he didnt


----------



## sealybobo (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


This just in. Trumps asking china for help with north Korea. He's promising them a better trade deal in exchange for their help.

Wait a second! I thought china was raping us? How's he going to sweeten the deal?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

bear513 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Under Democratic Presidents, Minorities Make Economic Gains - And So Do Whites | Scholars Strategy Network
> ...



That isn't the same stat.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 12, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



*When I tried to point out how Republicans told Obama no when he asked to bomb Syria I got two responses, no three*

You have the actual vote count for when he asked?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 12, 2017)

bear513 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...



*you forgot about the feds dumping in 85 plus billion a month of money we still have to pay interest on*

The Fed was buying interest earning assets with that money.
They're actually making a profit off QE.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



*We've been screwing up free trade for 25 years by GOP blocking investment in education/training*

Libs have been in control of education forever. You fuckers still can't get it right? DERP!


----------



## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?
> ...


or not.


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## danielpalos (Apr 12, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Just ordinary income.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



I don't read propaganda sigs, I block them.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 12, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...





sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



No sure what this has to do with the Democratic Party's hate for poor black people.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Bush and Reagan were geniuses! Look how butt hurt you are and Reagan has been out of office for 28 plus years and you still can't figure it out. You Dems are pretty stupid.


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## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


and what is that 'one solution'?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


right, as per the title of this thread, you want the illegals in to continue the hate on the blacks.  we get that.  It's why the title.  you just confirmed that hate.  Nice!!


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


NOT: Or the GOP can keep this mess going FOREVER. 

Pass the gd Dem Immigration bill of 2010 with unfakeable SS ID card and END this GOP BS, dupe. The GOP have blocked that forever. Commie plot.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


sure, why hasn't either party?  The dems have them voting for them, why?  they have no business interest nor education interest in the black, yet they vote for them like they owe them.  funny, follows no logic.  Eh?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


what is wrong with deporting them per what the current law allows?  and is happening. what is your issue with that?  can you articulate that for us?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


obummer gave them free cell phones.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

Markle said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > It gives us tons of money to invest in training and education for 3-6 million tech jobs going begging, make us more like Germany instead of an oligarchy with everyone selling cheeseburgers and insurance to each other- AND invest in our collapsing infrastructure. That's what we need to take advantage of the new markets from free trade, and the GOP has blocked for 35 years...
> ...


it's a fking waste of time trying to simplify the facts for these jack monkey libs.  They will never understand money flow.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


so how does that help them?  What skills does that provide them to get out from the need?  That is the help that is being requested.  you should comprehend that better.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 12, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Well the wealth gap didn't seem to bother Democrats over the last eight years where it has continued to widen. Funny how it is now important when the Democrats aren't in power and ignored while the Dems are out of power.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



The thing with Dems is it does appear they try. How successful the attempts are is in question.    Now repubs don't have much a history of even trying and I think the poor are hurt by things like repeal Obamacare and cutting planned parenthood funding.  So it is easy to see why they stick with Dems.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



To be fair, Obama had a recession, 2 wars, housing bubble, and high unemployment to deal with.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Also the free or very cheap college and training we used to have before Raygun and we're starting to have again (Cuomo in NY NOW), the infrastucture bills we al.ways used to mhave and NOW Dems will help Trump with, all kinds of small business loans when the GOP gets the FEQ out of the way, ditto alll kinds of other programs Trup wants to cut so he can have ANOTHER giant tax cut for the rich. You have to be willfully ignorant/brainwashed to be this dumb...


----------



## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


they try?  what do they try?  they never offer up ideas on how to raise up blacks and poor?  all they do is throw relief to them and keep them in need.  I've never seen them offer up a proposal to end poverty.  NEVER.  In fact, the voucher for schools program they shit on every time.  A way to educate them better with smarter programs.   Shit it on it every fking time.  Education is the only way out.  my further evidence they wish hate on the blacks.


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## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


school vouchers for grades k through 12.  why are you against them rising out of poverty?


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


Actually, that was Reagan and W Bush, superdupe. And Booosh's corrupt economic meltdown that added all those victims to UE and wefare rolls DUHHHHH.. You brainwashed functional morons don't even know about that. Most think the black guy did it, and started Reaganism pander to the rich I suppose. IDIOTS.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



Why do you think that is the answer?  I've seen no evidence.   Many voucher schools here are a disaster.  Pretty sure it's an attack on teacher unions.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


why don't you want to raise the level of education for the blacks?  school vouchers would do that?  Are you more concerned with Unions or the actual black folks affected by crappy teaching from unions?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


because it offers them a choice.  why are you against offering them and allowing them the same choice as rich kids?


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Vouchers are just to get white kids into private schools and help the rich, dupe. We need a inner city makeover and better schools there. Where is Jack Kemp and enterprise zones. The last good GOPer...and QB of the Bills World Champions.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


we have better schools, why can't they go to those better schools, you are making no logical response.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



Milwaukee has had vouchers a long time.  That your symbol of success?


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


BS. Education in a war zone/economic disaster DOESN'T WORK. Cuomo's free public college WILL. Reagan ended free college in the US. Great job!!


----------



## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


I don't know the results of their

Wisconsin School Choice, charter programs, Voucher program, education options, educational programs, Milwaukee Parental Choice Program, Racine

"We are a statewide organization headquartered in Milwaukee, home of the nation's original educational voucher program for low and middle-income families. We support expanded educational options for parents through the use of school vouchers, charter schools, and innovative new programs centered on parental empowerment."

I have no idea what reports are available for education participation from the poor.  I'll go looking.

"*Statement on WILL Test Score Study *
The Wisconsin Institute for Law and Liberty (WILL) released the results of a study on standardized test scores that accounted for socioeconomic factors for all school sectors across Wisconsin.  Here are some of the highlights of the study:


Students in the Milwaukee Parental Choice Program (MPCP) scored 5% higher in reading proficiency and 4% higher in math proficiency on the Wisconsin Forward Exam than similar students in Milwaukee Public Schools (MPS).

Students in the MPCP scored 8% higher on the ACT than similar students in MPS. 

Students in the Racine/Wisconsin Parental Choice Programs scored 17% higher on the Wisconsin Forward Exam than similar students in Wisconsin outside of Milwaukee.
The study can be found HERE."


----------



## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


why is there a war zone only in a democratic city?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



I've seen no evidence that is what happens.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


well let's take a city like chicago and track it?  why are you against that?  see you wish to keep the poor poor and fk the blacks.  I see.

BTW, I posted the statistics for Milwaukee's schools choice program.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



Poverty keeps tight grip on Milwaukee, census figures show


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
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I think the kids takIng vouchers would be doing well at any school.  We need to get help for the kids who's parents don't care enough.


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


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The GOP has always given immigrants an open invitation to come here illegally and work. 90% are worthy immigrants and an integral part of of our economy. Pew 2007:, 94% of adult males work, 65% pay taxes (get the rest), 35% own homes. NOW STOP more coming with a good SS ID card, the only thing that will work. The wall is expensive BS for hater dupes ONLY.


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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It's not that- it's a gd war zone. Including rural red neck welfare/heroin addiction centers...


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


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In reality, it just makes cities even more of a mess with dislocation and charter schools that are no better in the end. The rich love it tho...


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## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
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well again, the regulations put in place by obummer caused manufacturing to decline.  we know this, trump is correcting that.  Now with the choice program and the return of manufacturing jobs, we will expect a increase in jobs and an expected decrease in poverty numbers.  Especially when the illegals are removed.


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## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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why do the dems chant the rich kid mantra so frequently then?  you can't have it both ways.  you can't say the rich kids have an advantage because they money and then disavow a program to level that field out stating it isn't valuable.  either it is or it isn't.  if it isn't, than money doesn't make a better education.


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


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Obama passed no new regs that caused any such thing. Coal went to hell on merit and a fracking boom before you start with that bs. You know unicorny bs...


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## Dragonlady (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


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Education IS the only way out, but Republicans refuse to provide the funding needed to give kids in inner city schools a chance.  Charter schools are not a solution.  Education for profit is just as bad as for-profit prisons, and for many of the same reasons.  

The difference between American conservatives and the rest of the civilized world is that American conservatives want no government at all, and the rest of the world has been smart enough to realize that there are some things that government *can and should do*, because the greater public good is involved, and *government can do it better*.

Americans call this "freedom", we call it "folly".  Your so-called "freedom" puts the US at #7 in the "world freedom index".  Your free-market medical mess puts your health-care system at #34 in the world.  While the rest of the first world has better, cheaper, government funded health care, Americans desperately cling to their expensive, bankrupting for-profit insurance scheme, and call it "freedom".  

The US is one of only two first world countries that spends more money educating the children of the rich, on purpose.  Using local property taxes to fund schools is archaic and will always favour the children of the wealthy.  Charter schools are not doing well in New Orleans, and many children are disappearing from schools which are coverting to charter, with no idea of where these kids are going to.  With no centralized school board tracking students, it is entirely possible that poor kids in New Orleans are just no longer going to school at all, there is no way to know.  

As public schools have converted to charter schools, few former enrollees return to the re-opened schools.  As few as 35% of the former students come back.  In one school, only 17 former students re-enrolled in fall.  If 65% of poor children are simply giving up, this is hardly going to help the poor work their way out of poverty.

Despite Charter School reform legislation to prevent the schools from culling poor students from their rolls ("creaming"), 10 years after Katrina wiped out the New Orleans public school system, standardized test scores for high school students show LOWER test scores than before Katrina, and fewer students qualify for post-secondary education.  Charter Schools are still creaming out disabled, or low performing students in an effort to boost their test scores, and their profits, adding to the children who are disappearing from schools and going where?

THIS IS WHY YOU NEED A STRONG, WELL-FUNDED PUBLIC EDUCATION CHILDREN.  CHILDREN ARE NOT CONSUMER PRODUCTS.  EDUCATION SHOULD NOT BE ACQUIRED FROM THE LOWEST BIDDER.


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## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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fella, there is no longer a reason to discuss with you.  That is just an absolutely stupid claim.  thanks though for showing off your stupid. I don't pretend to know the rules in pretendland.


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


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Because it's a fact. The rich save on private school tuition they don't need. Charter schools are no better than public in the end. It's the war zone, stupid.


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


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Blacks DUHHHHHH. lol. Discriminated against along with ALL poor by the GOP DUHHH.


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## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


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what funding is needed that the repubs won't allow?  explain.

Are you saying that higher teacher salaries make teachers better teachers?


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


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Fact, dupe. All Obama could pass was EOs. What exactly is your brilliant point (bs talking point?)? He did no such thing. 80 months straight of growth despite pure GOP obstruction of usual solutions (infrastructure/jobs bills, training for 3-6 MILLION tech jobs, BS never before seen debt ceiling crises (1% cut in GDP each time). Change the channel,dupe.


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


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You've GOT to be kidding lol, dupe. Change the channel.

No, you GET better people as teachers.


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## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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so?  he wrote EOs making regulation laws.  he did that, yep.  Trump took them out.  and now we will see employment return for coal.


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## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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where are those better teachers at to recruit from? Why is it always like pulling teeth with you libs for you all to make a fking point?

Damn, we've doubled the number of teachers with Charter schools we've offered vouchers to go there, and now those teachers are no good.  where are these genius teachers that don't exist that more money will find for us?


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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What's funny, dupe 456. All fact.


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


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Not a chance, dupe. More GOP unicorny bs. Just facing reality...


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


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Becoming lawyers and MBAs etc to make more money than teachers. BTW, my nephew just started as chem teacher. Oberlin idealist/lib. I think?


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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Charter school teachers often make less, with private org CEOs making out. Classic GOP BS. See private prisons/swamps...


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## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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40K of jobs created will be reported in the coal industry. That will be reality.


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## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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huh?


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## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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so where are these genius teachers at that we can't afford?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 12, 2017)

sealybobo said:


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If it makes you feel better, that's fine with me.  But don't pretend that only Republicans help the rich.   But if you really believe that the market is what got us out of the recession, then I guess you also believe that when the rich make more money, it's good for the economy.  


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

Hello!!!!!

_*so where are these genius teachers at that we can't afford?*_


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## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


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Well I hope it works out.  Manufacturing declining since long before obama however.

But if vouchers are good, why is Milwaukee not improving?


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## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

Sounds like throwing money at students who were already going private:

Richards describes the operation of the voucher program in the small, 2000-student, Waupun Area School District, where residents were taxed for 18 students attending a local Christian school, 17 of them already students at the private school when they were awarded a voucher. Waupun’s public school superintendent explains that the Christian school received $148,000 in tax dollars last year and worries about what will happen if the voucher program grows: “I don’t want public schools to be seen as the dumping ground as we get years down the road with vouchers… Like, if you have special needs or mental health problems, you come here but all the elite kids get to go to the private school.”

Richards describes tension at a Lutheran church in Watertown, a city between Milwaukee and Madison with 12 religious schools. At Good Shepherd Lutheran Church, despite that a church member who is a former public school principal organized a protest when the church’s parochial school sought to join the voucher program, church members voted overwhelmingly to have their school begin accepting vouchers: “Good Shepherd received approximately $70,000 in additional revenue last year for 11 children who qualified for the subsidies. All but three were already enrolled in the private school….”

How the Nation’s Two Oldest School Voucher Programs Are Working: Part I—Wisconsin


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## sealybobo (Apr 12, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


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Thank you Obama

U.S. Wages Rising At The Fastest Pace In Years Amid Solid Hiring

November 4, 2016

U.S. middle class shrank during 1970s and 1980s

The U.S. middle class shrank markedly between 1969 and 1989, as the number of Americans who were rich and poor increased.

In 1969, 71.2 percent of Americans were "middle class." Twenty years later, 63.2 percent were middle class, a new Census Bureau study found. 

This was during the time companies like GE started breaking their social contract with American workers.  Liberals and Unions 

The unwritten but very real and clearly understood social contract under which the citizens and workers of the United States and Canada developed the countries has now been broken by the wealthy classes, the owners of major industries and businesses and the politicians,   The contract is now invalid.  A new social contract is needed.

The Broken Social Contract  |  Dissident Voice


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## sealybobo (Apr 12, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


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Turns out Reagan sucked.  We loved him at the time but didn't realize what a sellout he actually was.  HW Bush didn't start NAFTA, Reagan's boys did.  

*Historical Reasons to Show Liberals Love*


*The 8-hour workday*, *overtime pay*, and the *federal minimum wage *

*The G.I. Bill of Rights*

*The Civil Rights Act of 1964*,

*The Social Security Act,*
*Medicare, *

*The Clean Water Act,*

*The Family and Medical Leave Act *

*The Rural Electrification Act* 


*Yes, But ‘What Have You Done for Me Lately’ – 10 Reasons to Thank Obama*

*Student Loan Reform and Pell Grant Award Increases *


*American Reinvestment and Recovery Act*

*The Credit Card Holders’ Bill of Rights Act *

*Health Care Reform*

*The Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act*, 

*Repeal of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,”* 

*The Education Jobs and Medicaid Assistance Act of 2010, *

*reducing tax loopholes for companies making profits overseas*. 

*Reauthorization of the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP)*

*The end of the Stem Cell Research Ban, *for which Obama takes full credit. He used an executive order in March 2009 to end former President George W. Bush’s ban on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research.


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## sealybobo (Apr 12, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


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36 Reasons Why You Should Thank a Union

Weekends
All Breaks at Work, including your Lunch Breaks
Paid Vacation
FMLA
Sick Leave
Social Security
Minimum Wage
Civil Rights Act/Title VII (Prohibits Employer Discrimination)
8-Hour Work Day
Overtime Pay
Child Labor Laws
Occupational Safety & Health Act (OSHA)
40 Hour Work Week
Worker's Compensation (Worker's Comp)
Unemployment Insurance
Pensions
Workplace Safety Standards and Regulations
Employer Health Care Insurance
Collective Bargaining Rights for Employees
Wrongful Termination Laws
Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967
Whistleblower Protection Laws
Employee Polygraph Protect Act (Prohibits Employer from using a lie detector test on an employee)
Veteran's Employment and Training Services (VETS)
Compensation increases and Evaluations (Raises)
Sexual Harassment Laws
Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA)
Holiday Pay
Employer Dental, Life, and Vision Insurance
Privacy Rights
Pregnancy and Parental Leave
Military Leave
The Right to Strike
Public Education for Children
Equal Pay Acts of 1963 & 2011 (Requires employers pay men and women equally for the same amount of work)
Laws Ending Sweatshops in the United States

So will conservatives give up all 36 of these union fought rights? Will they stand by their rhetoric that unions are thugs and refuse to take benefits from these "thugs" or will they hypocritically carry on the diatribe that unions are ruining this country while enjoying their weekends and paid vacations?
Or...

Maybe they could just admit that while not perfect, like anything else, unions have done great things for working people that they use and benefit from everyday of their lives?

Maybe a conservative union-hating family got to have some of the best moments of their lives while on vacation from work, and they still got to come to a job still there waiting for them, because of unions?

Maybe a conservative can't wait for their lunch break at work so they can turn on the radio and listen to Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Back talk about how horrible unions are?

If you don't want to give up all your union fought rights and benefits at work, I understand. I don't want to either, that's why I'm pro-union and vote Democrat.

But maybe you could just admit that unions are not demons spawned from hell, and admit the FACT that they have improved your life in more ways than one?

Or am I asking too much?


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 12, 2017)

sealybobo said:


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The minimum wage was set up to be racist at the start,  Henry Ford started the 40 hour a week movement,  the social security was always a ponzi scheme... Can go on and on but earth to silly boo bio the year is not 1930


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## sealybobo (Apr 12, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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Well it doesn't help if they are doing badly no.  My brother is a VP in HR and his specialty, or one of them, is executive compensation.  Rule number one in business is Feed the Generals First.  Rule number 2 is never forget rule #1.  

The truth is, we are out of the recession.  When did the rich realize we were out of the recession?  A lot sooner than the poor did.  The poor (blue collar) are still feeling the hurt of the Bush recession.  Ok, so how are you going to fix things for them?  I understand you are going to kick illegals out.  I like that.  That's one good thing.  If the market isn't flooded with workers pay will go up.  I don't want to force fair pay.  I would love nothing more than for it to happen naturally.  This is why I blame the GOP for the recession.  They sent all our best jobs overseas while turning a blind eye to 10 million illegals taking construction jobs.  The people who lost their manufacturing jobs could have probably found different work if it weren't for illegals. 

If wages go up naturally I'll admit that the free market works.  But I'm waiting to see.


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## sealybobo (Apr 12, 2017)

bear513 said:


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The formation of unions helped to strengthen the idea of working five days a week as well. In 1937, auto plant workers staged a sit-down strike in Flint, Michigan, to protest bleak conditions at General Motors that included no bathroom breaks, no benefits or sick pay and no safety standards.

The negotiations between GM and the United Auto Workers ultimately improved working conditions. The federal government would show its support when Congress passed the Fair Labor Standards Act in 1938, a key part of President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal.

Many historians credit Roosevelt’s labor secretary, Frances Perkins, for championing the cause. Perkins was in Manhattan’s Greenwich Village in 1911 on the day of the infamous Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire. Almost 150 garment workers, mostly women and immigrants, were trapped and killed when the building caught fire. The exits had been blocked — a common practice at the time.

“She saw the young girls jumping out of the window,” Santomauro said. “This, I’m sure, opened her heart about the plight of the workers. That really stayed with her.”

Aside from the 40-hour workweek, the Fair Labor Standards Act also included several reforms in place that Americans can appreciate to this day — establishing a minimum wage, overtime pay and putting an end to “oppressive” forms of child labor.


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


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All that from being abe to dump slag in rivers? Wow. lol.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 12, 2017)

sealybobo said:


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People in 28 states and counting (including yours) disagree with you 



.


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


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??? That's where they are.

Oberlin College????


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

bear513 said:


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....and are brainwashed RW morons...


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## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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so you think they'd go to a high school to teach?  too funny.  holy fk.  that is why I said huh?  dude are you a real person or are you a computer?


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## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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and winning.


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


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Yup. Why do you disrespect teachers, hater dupe?


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## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

Oldest voucher program in the US:
Milwaukee, where 40 percent of the 500,000 residents are black, has the second-highest black poverty rate of cities nationwide.

Milwaukee’s Voucher Verdict

Not the answer to poverty.


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## Dragonlady (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


> where are those better teachers at to recruit from? Why is it always like pulling teeth with you libs for you all to make a fking point?
> 
> Damn, we've doubled the number of teachers with Charter schools we've offered vouchers to go there, and now those teachers are no good.  where are these genius teachers that don't exist that more money will find for us?



4 years of university, 2 years of teachers college, and all of the debt that now entails, to make, on average $45,000 per year in a primary charter school in NOLA?  You don't get quality teachers for those kinds of dollars.  That's barely over the poverty line for a family of 4.

Tacoma Washington has a median teacher salary of $59,000 for public school teachers and and just under $70,000 for high school teachers.  Do you not think this might have something to do with Tacoma having better schools?

I have teacher friends in the US who are buying classroom supplies from their own pockets, whose kids have to share textbooks because there aren't enough funds for everyone to have one.  For poor kids, who are less likely to have access to computers and WIFI at home, without computer skills and skills in using technology and information systems, they will be sentenced to working in low skill jobs for the rest of their lives.

The Republican answer to this is to cut the school lunch program in poor schools because it's "soul destroying" for poor kids to be given free food.  Show me the Democratic Party policy here that is keeping these kids in poverty, because for the life of me I can't see it.  But I see the slimey hands of Republicans, who want that large supply of cheap labour to keep their labour costs down, all over these strategies.

Charter schools is just one more way that Republicans are engineering the complete domination and subjugation of the poor.  The first step was to imprison all of the young poor men and destroy poor families with the War on Drugs and minimum sentencing.  Now, the children of the poor are losing access to a decent public school education.  They will be kept ignorant and poor, and given occasional handouts, but no jobs, no education and no opportunity.


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## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> jc456 said:
> 
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> > where are those better teachers at to recruit from? Why is it always like pulling teeth with you libs for you all to make a fking point?
> ...


if you want to have a serious discussion, I'm game.  The answer to the difference in pay could merely be location and the cost of living between locations.  

If you think that there are teachers out there who are not working waiting for schools to pay them more, I highly doubt it.

Teachers get paid what the market calls for.  Period.  The price per student has gone up every year.  Fk, dude, I pay property tax on two homes.  So don't tell me it's about money because it isn't.  If you wish to cut back on administrative personnel, I'm game for that as well.  

I'm tired of the throw money to make it better act by the left.  It ain't so.  It is to make the teachers accountable for the students grades.  That means losing the unions.  How sincere are you to really improve the education of the students in poor neighborhoods is the question.


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## Redfish (Apr 12, 2017)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?
> ...




which party continuously pushes for more welfare and govt giveaway programs?  Which party needs a permanent underclass?


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## Markle (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> And you can't think of ways republicans have helped them either.



The 1996 Welfare Reform Act put forth by former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and the Republicans took millions of people off the welfare rolls and put them on the payrolls.  That helped them to restore their dignity and their very souls.  Self-pride and personal responsibility.

As you know, that went out the window with the Obama stimulus failure.


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## Markle (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if one party was able to do more to help them?


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## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
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> 
> > And you can't think of ways republicans have helped them either.
> ...



And it was supported by Clinton.


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## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
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> > Wouldn't it be nice if one party was able to do more to help them?



I feel strongly that welfare should only be temporary for those able to work.


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## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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and it worked.  Now there you have evidence the right was working in the best interest of the poor.  and now do you still say they do nothing?


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## Markle (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Under Democratic Presidents, Minorities Make Economic Gains - And So Do Whites | Scholars Strategy Network
> 
> Under Democratic presidents, black families’ incomes grew on average $895 dollars annually, but grew only by $142 dollars under Republicans. The black unemployment rate fell by a net 7.9 percentage points across the 26 years of Democratic leadership, but went up by a net of 13.7 points during 28 years of Republican presidencies. Across the years of Democratic leadership, black poverty declined by a net of 23.6 percentage points, but grew by three points when Republicans held the White House.



Great, please provide us with your reliable source along with the link so we may all enjoy the fruits of your labor.

What does your site say about the most important decade, the past ten years?


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## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


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I think you scored a point.

It makes me think government works better when parties can work together also...


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## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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they have to want to.  That doesn't exist since bush.


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## Markle (Apr 12, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Ever hear of white flight? Those are black cities. Don't deny your history



I'm sorry, but in case you did not notice, you failed to answer my question.

Are you identifying cities as black or white cities?  Are there brown cities too?


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## Markle (Apr 12, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Like what policies of Obama's made the rich richer?



The intensive Quantitative Easing which desperately tried to hold up the economy by pouring trillions of worthless dollars into the economy.  Money which, predictably, found a circuitous route to the stock market making the rich, richer.

Massive over-regulation discouraging existing businesses from expanding and hiring more people and new business from being opened or making it virtually impossible.

Crippling new taxes from Obamacare punishing people for trying to expand their business to over fifty employees.

And the list goes on, and on, and on.


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## Markle (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> I think you scored a point.
> 
> It makes me think government works better when parties can work together also...



Of course, they do.  Proven by the relationship between President Ronald Reagan, and the sharply partisan Tip O'Neil as well as President Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich.

Former President Bill Clinton vetoed the 1996 Welfare Reform Act twice.  The third time it was put before him, he knew that Congress had the votes to override his veto so he signed it into law.

Contrary to those working relationships, petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama took the opposite tact once even saying that Republicans can come along if they wish but they're going to have to ride in the back of the bus.


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## sealybobo (Apr 12, 2017)

bear513 said:


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I agree with you there pal.  The people today don't deserve unions.  They don't even appreciate what they do for them.  

Now I know that I benefited from unions even though I was never in a union.  I know that unions brought everyone's wages up regardless of what cons say, they did.  It's a fact.  Companies paid union style wages for fear of their employees unionizing.  Today companies don't have that fear.  No millenial is going to unionize.  They don't have the balls.  So I made good money in the 90's-Present.  Enough that I'll be able to retire when I'm 65, maybe sooner depending on if my $400K inheritance doesn't get eaten up by an old folks home.  That almost happened to half of it when my mom got Alzheimers.  It was $11K a month.  Luckily for her and my dad's pocket book she only lasted 3 weeks in that $11,000 shit hole.  Funny they won't let people commit suicide but then dump them in a place that isn't safe and they suffer for weeks while the family pays $11K a month.  

Anyways, that was off topic.  The point is today college grads are screwed.  They can't buy a home until their student loan debt is paid off.  When I graduated I only owed $1500.  

Will Millennials ever be able to retire?

Planning and saving for retirement is a challenge for almost everyone these days. But if you're just embarking on your career and not pulling down the big bucks, preparing for retirement can be even more daunting as there are so many competing demands chipping away at a slim salary: housing costs, transportation, basic living expenses and, for many people in their 20s and 30s, college debt, which a recent poll by the American Institute of Certified Public Accounts found is major reason many people postpone saving for retirement.

And these kids parents don't have $800K to pass on to their 2 sons like my dad does.  The American people are screwed.  

Right now my dad gets a Ford pension.  All the GM, Ford and Chrysler retirees all have pensions.  Imagine in 30 years when they are all dead and the next generation of seniors don't have shit for savings.  Most Americans in the future will never ever retire.

How GOP Social Security Cuts Will Hurt You

Dumb Americans.  Dumb dumb dumb.

Will Trump Cut Medicare and Social Security?


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## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


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## sealybobo (Apr 12, 2017)

Markle said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Like what policies of Obama's made the rich richer?
> ...



*Why Obama deserves some blame for the relatively slow recovery*

Conservatives say the president's policies slowed how fast the economy bounced back.

Chris Edwards, an economist with the libertarian Cato Institute, agrees Obama was not responsible for the onset of the recession, but he believes the president’s policies "are mainly responsible for the slowness of the recovery."

Edwards said Obama's policies have created a less-than-ideal environment for business investment, including new burdens and taxes from Obama’s health care law, additional layers of financial regulation, and large and growing deficits.  Dartmouth College economist Bruce Sacerdote acknowledged that Obama needed to use federal spending to stimulate the economy, but he worries about the long-term consequences of the growing debt.

Of course, a big reason for the stasis of Obama’s agenda in 2011 and 2012 stems from the Republican takeover of the House in the 2010 midterm elections. Which brings us to....

*Why it’s hard to tell whether Obama deserves credit or blame for the economy on his watch*

If you're grading Obama's performance, it's important to note that he could only do so much with the House in Republican hands. His ideas were often non-starters with the Republican-controlled House -- and likewise, the Republican ideas were stymied by Obama and the Democrats who controlled the Senate. 

the Obama administration struggled with the problem of foreclosures and underwater mortgages because it had trouble crafting a policy that would help homeowners in dire straits without rewarding banks that had made bad loans. And the Fed was hobbled early on because interest rates were already close to zero by the time the economy went into freefall. That eliminated one of the Fed’s tried-and-true tools -- lowering interest rates.

That said, the Fed’s actions -- including pumping more money into the economy through a policy called quantitative easing -- have almost certainly had an effect, and the president’s lack of influence on the Fed weakens any linkage between Obama and economic results.


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## sealybobo (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
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> > bear513 said:
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Hey look, Trump sucks worst than we thought he would

Job growth whiffs badly in March; unemployment rate falls to 4.5%

*180,000 expected*

*Only 98,000?  Pathetic*


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## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > I think you scored a point.
> ...



Bill ran on welfare reform.  He really was a much better president than repubs will admit.

From Pledge to Plan: The campaign to end welfare -- A special report.; The Clinton Welfare Bill: A Long, Stormy Journey


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## Markle (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Education is the only way out. my further evidence they wish hate on the blacks.



Great, I agree 100%, I'm so happy to see that you support Betsy DeVos as Secretary of Education along with school choice, vouchers and charter schools.  Happy to see you come around!


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## Markle (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Bill ran on welfare reform. He really was a much better president than repubs will admit.



I have no problem saying that former President was a good president.  Had he been able to keep it in his pants and had the Clinton's not been so criminally inclined, he could have been a great president.


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## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

Markle said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Education is the only way out. my further evidence they wish hate on the blacks.
> ...



Vouchers aren't helping Milwaukee.


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## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Markle said:
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how can you make that statement?  I posted their results. you just lied.


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## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
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And I posted that Milwaukee has a huge poverty problem.  They have the longest running voucher program and still huge poverty.  Not working.


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## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

Oldest voucher program in the US:
Milwaukee, where 40 percent of the 500,000 residents are black, has the second-highest black poverty rate of cities nationwide.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


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To be fair he promised to close the gap, and he did not. To be fair he let all those bankers and other rich 1%ers off the hook for 2008. To be fair, Obama didn't do much of anything for the poor. to be fair, you lean left.


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## sealybobo (Apr 12, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Brain357 said:
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To be fair when your dumb ass gave the GOP back the house in 2010 you killed any hope of Obama doing anything for your dumb ass.

Remember how the gop blamed Obama for the bp oilspill? You bought it


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## Papageorgio (Apr 12, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
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We get it, the Democratic Party wants poor and needs them, even if they really hate the poor.


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## Markle (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Milwaukee has had vouchers a long time. That your symbol of success?



I wasn't familiar with their specific system but it seems to be extremely successful.

*Study finds charter and voucher schools do better than public schools*
By James Wigderson  /   March 1, 2017  /   News  /

WAUKESHA, Wis. – A new study by a Milwaukee-based research organization promises the most comprehensive look at statewide student test scores for voucher, charter and public schools.

The study, Apples to Apples, released on Wednesday, shows charter schools and private school voucher programs doing better at educating students than public schools in Wisconsin.

Will Flanders, education research director for the Wisconsin Institute for Law & Liberty said students in Milwaukee’s private school voucher program performed significantly better than their public school peers when controlling for socioeconomic status.

*APPLES TO APPLES; A new study shows students in voucher, charter schools do better than public school peers, according to Will Flanders of the Wisconsin Institute for Law & Liberty.

“We looked at both math and English, two of the most important subjects in school, in predicting success later in life,” Flanders said. “We see significantly higher rates of proficiency in both subjects.”
*
[...]

Study finds charter and voucher schools do better than public schools - Watchdog.org

Is this NOT what we want?


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## Papageorgio (Apr 12, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
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> > francoHFW said:
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So nothing to help the poor, got it!


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## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Milwaukee has had vouchers a long time. That your symbol of success?
> ...



I'm sure it's easy to take the better students and appear to have success.  How is poverty?


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## Papageorgio (Apr 12, 2017)

sealybobo said:


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not sure why you are bringing up unions, it seems that you nor any on the left at this site are part of a union. You don't help them, belong to one, you don't donate to any. Hell I do more for unions than you lying pieces of pig feces.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 12, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
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This is true.  Last time DumBama had a Democrat Congress, they spent trillions  and trillions and trillions of dollars.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
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Vouchers don't  save the world, they save a small portion of children who really want  to learn.


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## jc456 (Apr 12, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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she don't care.  she is happy they are where they are.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Bill ran on welfare reform. He really was a much better president than repubs will admit.



He ran on welfare reform but it was a lie.  When the Republicans took over Congress  and sent him the welfare bill, he vetoed it  twice.  The Republicans had to sit back and wait until he started to campaign for a second term.  Then the Republicans put the  bill in front of him again  and said "Veto it now mother FR."  That's when he reluctantly signed the bill.


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## sealybobo (Apr 12, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> sealybobo said:
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Seeing how we are the best party for the poor and middle class I can see how a Republican in independents clothing would spin it that way


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## sealybobo (Apr 12, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> sealybobo said:
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The way to help the poor is to give them access to middle class jobs. We offer programs that encourage hiring and fair wages your party says fair pay is a job killer. Your party gives tax breaks and crosses their fingers.


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## sealybobo (Apr 12, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> sealybobo said:
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Yes you've said that before. So are you pro union?

For the record i was in a union once. It was a scam the owner kept the dues and the union was a joke. If you're gonna have a union it has to have power.

Only 12% of us are still in unions. Thank god for them or bye bye all the shit they faught and earned for us.

I argue for unions. I understand their importance. Do you? Really?


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## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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> > jc456 said:
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Yes they take money and better students from public schools.


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## Markle (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Why do you think that is the answer? I've seen no evidence. Many voucher schools here are a disaster. Pretty sure it's an attack on teacher unions.



Please share with us the reliable source and link showing your claim that many voucher schools are a disaster.

Crushing the teacher unions will be an added bonus.  Government schools are being forced to see that competition is good, EVEN for the government.

National Education Association General Counsel Bob Chanin stated in July 2009.

Chanin: *"It is not because we care about children. And it is not because we have a vision of a great public school for every child.* NEA and its affiliates are effective advocates because we have power. And we have power because there are more than 3.2 million people who are willing to pay us hundreds of millions of dollars in dues...."


Says it all does it not?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
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If that's possible:


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## Dragonlady (Apr 12, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
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> > Markle said:
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No it didn't work.  That's false.  It was an abject fai


Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Milwaukee has had vouchers a long time. That your symbol of success?
> ...



Watchdog.org is not a creditable website.

Charter and voucher schools do better because of "creaming".  They don't take special needs kids, and they get rid of kids who bring down their test scores, fobbing these children off on public schools.  

Here is the reality:  It is difficult to get a handle on Wiscounsin's charter school program as there seem to be no definite US school rankings.  One ranking site rated the state as 11th overall with a C- grade, which is slightly below the average grade of C, nationwide.  Another ranked the state as 5th in the US overall, although Wiscounsin didn't make the top 5 in ANY of the categories which were supposedly weighted in the rankings.  Admittedly, I didn't delve too deeply into the methodology, which also took student/teacher ratios into consideration, and some 20+ criteria, each with different weightings, in their ranking.  This was a rating by Wallethub.com.  No idea who they are.  Weighting the value of certain scores over others is one way of getting the result you want.

The Wiscounsin experiment has been limited to a relatively small number of private school voucher credits are issued in a school year.  This most definite makes the situation ripe for creaming.  If spots are limited, there are more people trying to get in - week out the more challenging students and push your rankings up.

My concern is the wholesale move to a voucher program which Republicans keep championing.  As we see from New Orleans, a STRONG public school system is needed, not a system which sees poor, disadvantaged children as a drag on their test scores.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 12, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
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> > sealybobo said:
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First of all, Republicans didn't send our jobs out of the country; they didn't have that  kind  of power.  Unions sent our jobs overseas.  How do I know?  Because I was there when we lost customer after customer because businesses had to  move to get rid  of the unions.  I don't recall  delivering one crate to a business that moved because of Republicans.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 12, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> jc456 said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
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My  sister sent her kids to a private Catholic school.  It cost them a lot of money, but in the end  it was worth  it.

One time the  school notified my sister that  my niece was falling behind badly.  She was  missing  days and her test scores were going down.  My sister sat with that kid ever night not  only until my niece got those test results back up, but surpassed  where they were before the problem started.

When  you  are coughing up  big bucks  to  send  your kid  to school, you make  sure they are going  to pass and  do  well.  Public school?  Outside of property  tax, it's  free.  Throw  the kid  on  the bus and education  is the schools problem--not the  parents. 

Maybe  if parents who have  kids  in  public  school had to start paying for them  instead of  the  taxpayers, they would  be as concerned as my sister was and  actually do something about it when  there are signs  the  kid is  having problems.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
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How do you know that the kids graduated and left that shit hole of Milwaukee behind?



.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
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Only if you mean "better students" by those who  don't  disrupt the class and  cause problems.  Yes.


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Irrationality is the hallmark of brainwashing. Dems are the source of all efforts to help the poor and help them to get out of poverty, dupe. Except the Reaganphone...


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Had nothing to do with Dems except for the stimulus which saved Main St- you dupes blame him for the millions of  went on UE and welfare because of the corrupt Booosh economic meltdown, 800 billion dollars in 2009, still 300 billion last year...Great job, liars and dupes...


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
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Out of context bs. Why are the dupes' clips always 15 seconds long? Their attention span?


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

Uppity n&&&&r?


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## Markle (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Poverty keeps tight grip on Milwaukee, census figures show



I see they too have Democrat leadership, have for some time have they not?  Obviously, Democrats keep a tight reign on Milwaukee too.


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## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

bear513 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
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There is no chance everyone would leave.  If vouchers worked we would see it in Milwaukee, they do not.


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## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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Those with parents who care that will keep them on track.


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Poverty keeps tight grip on Milwaukee, census figures show
> ...


Horse patoot- The whole country has been suffering for 35 years under Reaganism, with the poor and the blacks most of all.


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## Markle (Apr 12, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Education IS the only way out, but Republicans refuse to provide the funding needed to give kids in inner city schools a chance.



That's all that needs reading in that vapid rant.

Far left Progressives solution for ANY of their failed programs.  THOSE WASCALLY WEPUBLICANS WON'T SPEND ENOUGH MONEY!

Washington D.C. is one of the school districts spending the most per student of any district in the country.  The RESULT (which matters not to Progressives) is one of the lowest performance in the country.


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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ACA alone gave 20 million poor health care DUHHHH.


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## edward37 (Apr 12, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?


Fish kiss my white jewish ass


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

edward37 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?
> ...


RW insanity and ignorance and bs propaganda on the march...


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## Papageorgio (Apr 12, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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Still haven't shown why Democrats don't hate blacks, you keep claiming you are better than someone who does nothing. LOL! You don't do anything either.


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

Markle said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Education IS the only way out, but Republicans refuse to provide the funding needed to give kids in inner city schools a chance.
> ...


Money for schools doesn't work in a war zone, unless you offer free college...thanks GOP. That used to happen lots of places until Reagan.


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
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Everything that helps the poor came from Dems DUHHH including ways to escape. DUHHHH.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



We have pointed out how irrational you and other partisan nutters are. Funny, we don't know of any the Democrats have raised out of poverty, we are supposed to believe the king of sling! LOL!


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## Papageorgio (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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Doesn't give them anything if they can't afford deductibles dumb dumb.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
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Yet, you supply nothing! LOL!! You are getting funnier and funnier dumb dumb.


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## Markle (Apr 12, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
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When did those things happen?  One was 1911?  Wow, having to jump back over 100 years to find anything to defend an outmoded system.

Let's see, in 1912 we learned that we needed to make sure that ships had enough life boats too.  That would be the Titanic.

What have unions done to the benefit of everyone in modern history?


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## Markle (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> And it was supported by Clinton.



After he vetoed it twice and was forced to sign and support or have his veto be overridden.


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## Markle (Apr 12, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> I agree with you there pal. The people today don't deserve unions. They don't even appreciate what they do for them.



DID for them over ONE HUNDRED YEARS AGO!


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

Markle said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
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> > bear513 said:
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Jeebus what a brainwashed functional a-hole....Not much lately? Maybe because Reaganists and you dupes wrecked them DUHHHH....


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## Markle (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> There is no chance everyone would leave. If vouchers worked we would see it in Milwaukee, they do not.



You've had two separate posters provide you with two posts showing you are wrong.

Why do you refuse to accept a solution to help better educate our children?  What caused you to hate children?


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## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > There is no chance everyone would leave. If vouchers worked we would see it in Milwaukee, they do not.
> ...



Wrong?  About all the poverty in Milwaukee after almost 30 years of vouchers?


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## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > There is no chance everyone would leave. If vouchers worked we would see it in Milwaukee, they do not.
> ...



This is your idea of success?
Milwaukee, where 40 percent of the 500,000 residents are black, has the second-highest black poverty rate of cities nationwide.


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > There is no chance everyone would leave. If vouchers worked we would see it in Milwaukee, they do not.
> ...


IT DOESN'T WORK, dupe. Want a diagram?


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## Markle (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Wrong? About all the poverty in Milwaukee after almost 30 years of vouchers?



Specifically, how did the vouchers contribute to the economic failure of Milwaukee?


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## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

Markle said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong? About all the poverty in Milwaukee after almost 30 years of vouchers?
> ...



Specifically, it hasn't helped.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



That's what I told Dragonlady earlier.  In many cases, vouchers don't  cover the entire educational bill.  Parents have to provide their own money as well.  Parents who do so will make sure their  kid(s) get a good education. You can't blame the schools or the teachers if a kid is a punk and doesn't want to do anything but cause trouble.  Get those kids who  stand a chance out of those  schools and send them  where they can have  enough peace and quiet to learn something.  

You can' lay the blame of "poor" children  on the taxpayer.  Lay the blame  on  the parents.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> If vouchers worked we would see it in Milwaukee, they do not.



To say that vouchers don't  work because  of one city is to say they don't  work anywhere.  Care to stick to that???


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## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > If vouchers worked we would see it in Milwaukee, they do not.
> ...



Has it helped poverty anywhere?


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## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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Parents are a very important part of a kids education.  I do think those kids would also do
fine in public schools.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
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It's not to help poverty, it's about helping INDIVIDUALS.  Individuals here and there will never and  cannot solve poverty.  Do you think public schools help poverty?


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## Papageorgio (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Markle said:
> 
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Lol! Reagan really screwed up your life! Very laughable!


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## sealybobo (Apr 12, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


I agree they were allowed to move to break the unions and renegade on pensions. Bankruptcy laws were changed, brain capital. Yes, all gop


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
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I'm fine, dumbass, it's the country he ruined DUHHH. See sig.


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## sealybobo (Apr 12, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


Well if you believe illegals have ruined America Reagan was the start of that. Breaking unions, free trade, corporations and rich having too much power, war on drugs, charlie Wilson's war. All reagan


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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Without them, we'd be 3rd world. Getting closer anyway...see sig.


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## Markle (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Specifically, it hasn't helped.



No answer.  Not that I expected any answer.


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## Markle (Apr 12, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Parents are a very important part of a kids education. *I do think* those kids would also do
> fine in public schools.



Not that I have seen.

Isn't that a decision for the parents?


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## Markle (Apr 12, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> I agree they were allowed to move to break the unions and *renegade* on pensions. Bankruptcy laws were changed, brain capital. Yes, all gop



*ren·e·gade*
[ˈrenəˌɡād]
traitor · defector · deserter · turncoat · rebel · mutineer
ADJECTIVE

having treacherously changed allegiance:
"a renegade bodyguard"
synonyms: treacherous · traitorous · disloyal · treasonous · rebel · 
[more]
Obviously the result of a government school.


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## Dragonlady (Apr 12, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > If vouchers worked we would see it in Milwaukee, they do not.
> ...



The don't work anywhere.  There isn't a single school district where the students with vouchers are getting a signficantly better education.  In most jurisdictions, they're doing worse.

Test scores for New Orleans high schools are lower than before the city converted to Charter schools.  And there's the problem of the "disappearing students" which no one seems to care about because they're poor kids.

Wiscounsin schools have been providing a limited number of vouchers for the past 20 years and but those charter schools are not significantly more successful than public schools in preparing the kids for college or in SAT scores.  Any scoring difference can be explained by "creaming" off the better students, and getting rid of lower performing kids.

Conservatives are quick to blame teachers unions for education problems, but the fault lies with the school boards.  Teachers don't set the cirriculum, pick the text books and supplies or provide the facilities and equipment.  They can only work with what they're given and teach to the course outline set by the board.  

As always, conservatives are quick to blame liberals for the problems in education, and ignore their role in this crisis.  The US  has one of the most expensive education systems in the world, and parents contribute more out of pocket money to their children's education that in any first world country in the world.  Just like with health care, you're not getting your money's worth.


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## sealybobo (Apr 12, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Black people are Democrats you idiot.

And this is just you Republicans trying to take the focus off yourselves. Why are we even talking about this? We should be talking about the love Republicans have shown black people. Because you won you know. Why are you talking and doing nothing? This sounds like a Republican taking the focus off the fact you so that gonna do shit but hurt poor black people


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## Markle (Apr 12, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> The don't work anywhere. There isn't a single school district where the students with vouchers are getting a signficantly better education. In most jurisdictions, they're doing worse.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 12, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Nobody cares about your stupid sig.  Nobody reads it and nobody cares.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 12, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Would you  like  me to post links  that dispute  your claims?  Plenty of them out there.  Just Google it and  find  it yourself.   If that's  too much trouble, I'll be happy to provide results with the voucher program that  were  successful.   

Who  are  the people against  vouchers?   Liberals.  Who do unions  support at  election time?  Liberals.  

Liberals never liked  choice.   Choice  means  freedom,  and who is  against choice more  than  Democrats?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 12, 2017)

Markle said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > I agree they were allowed to move to break the unions and *renegade* on pensions. Bankruptcy laws were changed, brain capital. Yes, all gop
> ...


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## Brain357 (Apr 12, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



It was given by a righty on this thread as a way to help poverty.  Clearly it is not.


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## francoHFW (Apr 12, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


No one gives a crap about your "opinion" either...lol. Anyway, all fact.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 13, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...




Reagan was not the start of it,  the Unions themselves were the start of it in the 60s and 70s ..they got to big for their britches.. 

They became the ones they fought 


They became the greedy ones


They became their own enemy and the young workers seen it. 


And said fuck the Unions 


.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 13, 2017)

bear513 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...




I don't get it you talk like a conservative pal when talking about the triumphs of the Unions past,  it's antique in the year 2017....Unions are dinosaurs in the new age.. Get a grip 


.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 13, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...




That truck driver has one hell of a an opinion better then yours Franco.. He lives and breathes the United States,  you lived in a bubble as a teacher.. 


That's the only reason Franco you became a teacher because you would of been fired outright in the real world.. 


.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I didn't see the comment (or don't remember it) but what was probably meant was individual poverty and not general population  poverty.  If that's the case, then I would agree that it helps  poverty.  

During the housing bubble, it was hard for landlords to find decent tenants because everybody was buying homes with  no money down and  no credit checks.  I post  my rentals on Craig's list  because it's free, they allow you to post multiple  pictures, and I've had pretty good luck with the government  leaving   me alone  using that  service. 

Some of the emails I got were atrocious.    A  few  I couldn't even understand what they were trying to say.  No punctuation, misspelled words, I didn't know if they were trying to tell me something or ask me something. 

Most of those emails I didn't respond to,  but out of desperation, I did contact a few of them.  

What I found out is that these people had a high school diploma. The question I have is, if I won't rent an apartment to them because they write like a seven year old, HTF do these people  get a job?


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## sealybobo (Apr 13, 2017)

bear513 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


And now they're fucked. They don't make near what my dad made


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## Brain357 (Apr 13, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



If it was helping personal poverty, that would remove them from general poverty.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 13, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Poor kid, just reading Reagan must send you over the edge. I never understood the power of Reagan until I saw the unhinged left. Thanks for all the laughs Franco.


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## sealybobo (Apr 13, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



I never understood why righties like you worship him still.  Back then I understand but you have the internet now.  It's easy to see Reagan sucked

21 Reasons Why Ronald Reagan Was a Terrible President


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## francoHFW (Apr 13, 2017)

bear513 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Pffffft! I was a teacher for ten years, a businessman and other things before and after. You dupes know less than nothing, a pile of bs propaganda and character assassination. My sig has more facts than a lifetime of Rush and Hannity...Go Trump- leave the BS behind and take the hater dupes with you. So far so good.


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## danielpalos (Apr 13, 2017)

Equal protection of the law regarding the concept of employment at will for unemployment compensation purposes, can solve simple poverty.  The right wing, doesn't like it.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 13, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



So, again, no answer, just throwing excuses. It seems the regressive left has no real answers other than they hate poor blacks.


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## danielpalos (Apr 13, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Equal protection of the law regarding the concept of employment at will for unemployment compensation purposes, can solve simple poverty. The right wing, doesn't like it.


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## francoHFW (Apr 13, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Total dupe^^


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## Papageorgio (Apr 13, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



Had the Regressive left supported unions, they would not be in trouble today. The Democratic Party isn't for the working middle class and the union workers have realized it.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 13, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Still can't defend Democrats hating poor black people, all you have is diversion. 

I love how the left gets all emotional when Reagan is mentioned.


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## Soggy in NOLA (Apr 13, 2017)

The Democrats have always shit on minorities... it's what they do.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 13, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



So you want hiring for the sake of hiring. That seems pretty archaic.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 13, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Hey dumb dumb, thanks for proving that you have no answers, you have nothing! LOL!!


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## danielpalos (Apr 13, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


It is about unemployment compensation for Labor simply being unemployed on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.


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## jc456 (Apr 13, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


fair.  no such word in society.  equal opportunity.  now that is.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 13, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



With the employment rate as low as it is, is there a valid reason for you not to be at will?


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## sealybobo (Apr 13, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



President Donald Trump has reversed himself on at least six major issues this week, pulling back on long-held promises supported by his base.  

Four of these reversals alone came in an interview with The Wall Street Journal published Wednesday: 


Trump said the Chinese are “not currency manipulators.” Just last week, he said they were “world champions” of currency manipulation, and he pledged throughout his campaign to label China a currency manipulator on his first day in office. He tweeted in 2012 that President Barack Obama’s failure to call China a currency manipulator “helped China steal even more jobs and money from us.”


Trump said, “I do like a low interest-rate policy.” During his campaign, he excoriated the Federal Reserve for keeping rates low, and said in 2011 that the policy would lead to hyperinflation.


Trump said he was open to the idea of reappointing Janet Yellen to head the Federal Reserve. On the campaign trail, he said he would “most likely” replace her. “I like her, I respect her,” Trump told the Journal at the time.


Trump said he supported the Export-Import Bank, noting that small companies are “really helped” by the institution. During the campaign, he said the bank was unnecessary.

On each of these issues, Trump’s turnabout puts him in lockstep with the Washington economic policy consensus. And in each case, Trump is walking away ― at least for now ― from the heterodox views he expressed during the campaign. This week’s reversals follow his shift on Syria last week, when Trump fired cruise missiles at an airbase after repeatedly saying he opposed U.S. involvement in the country’s civil war. 

Also on Wednesday, Trump reversed his position on NATO, telling reporters, “They made a change and now they do fight terrorism. I said it was obsolete. It’s no longer obsolete.”

It is rare for Trump to admit he is changing positions. During the campaign, for example, he insisted he had opposed the Iraq War before the 2003 U.S. invasion, even though he supported it during a radio interview at the time.  

In an interview with Fox Business Network that was taped on Tuesday, Trump blasted Obama for not striking Syria in 2013 ― even though Trump repeatedly tweeted at the time that Obama should not do so.

In The Wall Street Journal interview, Trump also waded back into the debate over the relative value of the U.S. dollar, saying, “I think our dollar is getting too strong, and partially that’s my fault because people have confidence in me. But that’s hurting—that will hurt ultimately.”


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## jc456 (Apr 13, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


who said that the kids graduating would release moms and siblings from it?  The idea is to break the cycle.  wow, you weren't standing in the line for intelligence were you now?


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## jc456 (Apr 13, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Oldest voucher program in the US:
> Milwaukee, where 40 percent of the 500,000 residents are black, has the second-highest black poverty rate of cities nationwide.


and?


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## jc456 (Apr 13, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


so then why didn't Barry attempt to work with them?  you don't get to just make that statement without repercussion, there Barry squared.

you don't know the word 'balance' or the word 'negotiate'  eh?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 13, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Equal protection of the law regarding the concept of employment at will for unemployment compensation purposes, can solve simple poverty.  The right wing, doesn't like it.



You're right, we don't like the idea of paying quitters and never workers.
Because we understand economics and incentives. Smoke up dude!


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## Brain357 (Apr 13, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



Been almost 30 years.  If the cycle was being broken, poverty would go down.  It hasn't.


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## francoHFW (Apr 13, 2017)

OP- The dupes have totally lost contact with reality, since all help for blacks, both to survive and rise, is due to Dems, and all the racists are basically in the GOP and the New BS GOP has brought about the ruin of the nonrich and especially blacks for 35 years. GO Trump- dump the BS and bring the dupes along. So far so good.


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## jc456 (Apr 13, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


how do you figure?  My moms 84 years young.


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## jc456 (Apr 13, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> OP- The dupes have totally lost contact with reality, since all help for blacks, both to survive and rise, is due to Dems, and all the racists are basically in the GOP and the New BS GOP has brought about the ruin of the nonrich and especially blacks for 35 years. GO Trump- dump the BS and bring the dupes along. So far so good.


silly person, the dems hate the blacks.  always have.  had the slaves, had the kkk tried a civil war to hold on to their slaves.  let's don't drop that ball here.

BTW, republicans freed the slaves.  ever hear of Abraham Lincoln?


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## Brain357 (Apr 13, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



So your answer to poverty doesn't actually lower poverty.  Funny.


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## regent (Apr 13, 2017)

Boy, now is the time for Republicans to gain the black vote. Instead of creating the usual economic crisis, and then Amerlca has to elect a Democrat for the usual recovery. This time if Trump creates jobs and income for  all the poor, not just  blacks he will be rated near-
great.


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## sealybobo (Apr 13, 2017)

jc456 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



Work with them?  Impossible.  Even Trump can't work with them.  LOL


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## francoHFW (Apr 13, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > OP- The dupes have totally lost contact with reality, since all help for blacks, both to survive and rise, is due to Dems, and all the racists are basically in the GOP and the New BS GOP has brought about the ruin of the nonrich and especially blacks for 35 years. GO Trump- dump the BS and bring the dupes along. So far so good.
> ...


That was 154 years ago, 117 years before the GOP went Southern conservative insane.


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## francoHFW (Apr 13, 2017)

regent said:


> Boy, now is the time for Republicans to gain the black vote. Instead of creating the usual economic crisis, and then Amerlca has to elect a Democrat for the usual recovery. This time if Trump creates jobs and income for  all the poor, not just  blacks he will be rated near-
> great.


"I know, a giant tax cut for the megarich ought to do it..."


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## jc456 (Apr 13, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


the object is to break the family cycle of living in poverty.  Let's see your solution that you have avoided posting?

BTW, throwing money at it doesn't solve it.

Come back when you are sincere about it.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 13, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


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## jc456 (Apr 13, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


and?


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## Papageorgio (Apr 13, 2017)

More diversion because the regressive left continues to find this thread true and that is all they got.  Reality!


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## Papageorgio (Apr 13, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Sad that you can't stay on topic and defend the Democrats of course the truth seems to hurt sealy, brain and franco.


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## jc456 (Apr 13, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


he's working on it.  it's been 80+ days.  How about we give him a bit of time.  it isn't like he, trump, hasn't done anything.  He's done quite a lot without them and corrected barry's play.


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## francoHFW (Apr 13, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


My mother told me not to argue with the insane...


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## jc456 (Apr 13, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


then why are you on a message board?


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## Brain357 (Apr 13, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



It clearly isn't doing that.  Poverty is growing.  Admit it is a failure already.


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## jc456 (Apr 13, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


You still haven't supplied us with your genius plan to end it.  Everyone knows it is education.  so you offer up squat juice as a solution.  how white of you.


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## rightwinger (Apr 13, 2017)

What about poor whites in Appalachia?

They have been living in ramshackle shacks for generations receiving government aid. Isn't it time we get them off the government teat?

Send in bulldozers, knock down the shacks and send them on their way. It is the only way to get them off the plantation


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## Brain357 (Apr 13, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



I have several times.


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## jc456 (Apr 13, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


and there is the libturd response.  nothing.  you got fking nothing to offer up.  thanks for playing.

I already told you that throwing money at it won't solve it.  And you respond with crickets.


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## jc456 (Apr 13, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


brain, it's fking hilarious.  I agree.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 13, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



So you must not talk to yourself.


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## danielpalos (Apr 13, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Only the right wing has a problem with equal protection of the law.  How illegal of them.


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## jc456 (Apr 13, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


you don't even know what it is.  it's therefore illogical for you to make such a statement.


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## danielpalos (Apr 13, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Nothing but diversion, rejection, or repeal; how typical of the right wing.


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## jc456 (Apr 13, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


I only post up facts.  anytime you really wish to debate, let's do it, otherwise my facts stand.


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## regent (Apr 13, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


I often wonder why Republicans don't brag about Lincoln more, perhaps it was because Lincoln was so liberal? I bet books have been written about Lincoln and his liberalism. Would today's Republicans elect a man like Lincoln?


----------



## Redfish (Apr 13, 2017)

edward37 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?
> ...




the truth makes you angry------------------tough shit.


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## Redfish (Apr 13, 2017)

regent said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...




we did, last November.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Poverty is growing because the government promotes it.  How can you ever end poverty when you pay poor people to create more poor people?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2017)

regent said:


> Boy, now is the time for Republicans to gain the black vote. Instead of creating the usual economic crisis, and then Amerlca has to elect a Democrat for the usual recovery. This time if Trump creates jobs and income for  all the poor, not just  blacks he will be rated near-
> great.



It wouldn't hurt, but I seriously doubt any Republican can win over the black vote no matter what they do.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 13, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Seems the left wing has no way to answer this thread, unless it is diversion.


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## danielpalos (Apr 13, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Only the right wing has a problem with equal protection of the law. How illegal of them.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Equal protection of the law regarding the concept of employment at will for unemployment compensation purposes, can solve simple poverty. The right wing, doesn't like it.



What's to like?  Don't  we have enough lowlifes in this country as it is?  Time to get rid of them,  not make more of them.


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## danielpalos (Apr 13, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


because the private sector is not making them wealthy, by hiring them.


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## Brain357 (Apr 13, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



Poverty is growing because too much wealth is going to the top and not being used to create good jobs.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 13, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Only the right wing has a problem with equal protection of the law. How illegal of them, since it would solve simple poverty in our more perfect Union.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 13, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Equal protection of the law regarding the concept of employment at will for unemployment compensation purposes, can solve simple poverty. The right wing, doesn't like it.
> ...



Defunding planned parenthood sure isn't going to help.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



And who says it doesn't?   

If a poor person  leaves a poor community, how would you or I know?  They just leave and statistics can't track that.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 13, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Private schools are like 25% of Milwaukee.  Population would have to decline really fast.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Wealth going to the top has nothing  to do with good jobs.  Good jobs are the  product of the American consumer buying American made  products.  Americans don't want  to support unions or good job, Americans want to support low prices no matter who makes their products.  It has nothing  to do  with the wealthy.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Yeah, population decline and nobody else moving in taking their place.


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## Brain357 (Apr 13, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



The wealthy could make more here and price it competitive.  Instead they prefer to make more money and import.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



The private  sector never has.  How long have  you been living  in this country?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 13, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



It does not help poverty.  The facts are clear and you even agreed till you found out some righty was claiming it did.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



How are they able to price it competitively when their competition makes the same product for half the price because they manufacture overseas?


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## Bush92 (Apr 13, 2017)

Victims vote...if you train them like Pavlovs Dog that they are in fact victims.


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## Brain357 (Apr 13, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



They accept less profit.  Believe me, it can be done and they are still rich.


----------



## regent (Apr 13, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > Boy, now is the time for Republicans to gain the black vote. Instead of creating the usual economic crisis, and then Amerlca has to elect a Democrat for the usual recovery. This time if Trump creates jobs and income for  all the poor, not just  blacks he will be rated near-
> ...


Well Republicans supposedly freed them and now they vote Democratic, sounds like a monumental goof.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Wonderful idea.  They make less profit and lose their stockholders.  Does that  sound like success to you?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2017)

regent said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > regent said:
> ...



It's generational.  Most blacks know little to nothing about politics.  

Ask a black man  how he votes, he will tell you  Democrat. 
Ask  him why, and he  will tell you Republicans are only for the rich white  man. 
Ask who told  him  that,  and  he  will tell you that the Democrats did.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 13, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Or they do that and our economy grows and they profit more.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



No, they profit more by selling lower  priced products that people  will buy.  You do  realize that the only way a company grows IS BY stockholders, don't  you?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 13, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


recanting your story?



> Poverty is growing because the government promotes it. How can you ever end poverty when you pay poor people to create more poor people?


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 13, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...




You were not paying attention back then during the Carter years... And anyone can play arm chair quarter back and second guess after it happened.


.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 13, 2017)

Redfish said:


> edward37 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Truth my butt, super hater dupe.


----------



## edward37 (Apr 13, 2017)

Redfish said:


> edward37 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


TRUTH??  republicans wouldn't know the truth if it bit them in the ass


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 13, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Again Daniel is stumped by the question and now is trying to divert the thread since he cannot defend the Democratic Party's hatred for poor blacks.


----------



## edward37 (Apr 13, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


How brilliant of you How about you defending how republicans have been screwing people of color  from way back?


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 13, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


STUPID insult after stupid insult from the hater dupe 75% chance racist, the same ridiculous talking point reported ad nauseum....everything to help the poor and blacks to survive and be able to rise has been DEM for at LEAST 35 years- and mainly blocked by the racist bigot pander to the rich New BS GOP. You're a disgrace and insane at this point if you believe this crap. GO TRUMP, learn, blow off the hate bs propaganda and return to your roots and bring the dupes with you. 

See Mario Cuomo and free tuition, just like the good old days before Raygunism and chumps/scum? like Papa.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 13, 2017)

edward37 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Start the thread, it seems you just want this thread derailed.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 13, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Your hatred is showing dumb dumb. Your racism and that of the Democratic Party is on display in this thread. Can't defend the position so you also Franco, the coward that you are, are trying to derail the thread. Pretty sad Franco, you dumb dumb.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 13, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



More times than not the product cost goes down, but the price to customers stays same.  That's why we still have inflation.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 13, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Idiot or a-hole? So what about ACA health care for 15 million poor and blacks? Cuomo? Try a fact or 2 , dupe.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 13, 2017)

Just for the record I'd like to point out that in another thread the author of this thread has stated that he believes the poor, the weak, the unfortunate, the sick, etc.,

should DIE, as a means to improve our species.  So that's his formula for not keeping the poor poor.  Kill them off.


----------



## Markle (Apr 13, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Equal protection of the law regarding the concept of employment at will for unemployment compensation purposes, can solve simple poverty.  The right wing, doesn't like it.



What is this supposed to mean?  What does the right wing, not like?


----------



## Markle (Apr 13, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> It is about unemployment compensation for Labor simply being unemployed on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.



Might English be a second or third language?


----------



## Markle (Apr 13, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I'm thrilled by his changes.  The ultimate sign of someone willing to listen to experts and not afraid to admit he was wrong and make a change in course.  This shows someone of great intellect and, at the same time, humility.  Something we have not seen in the previous eight failed years.


----------



## Markle (Apr 13, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> The dupes have totally lost contact with reality, since all help for blacks, both to survive and rise, is due to Dems,



Why then are blacks in worse condition today than more than 50 years ago when President Lyndon Johnson initiated the War on Poverty and his Great Society.


----------



## Markle (Apr 13, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Just for the record I'd like to point out that in another thread the author of this thread has stated that he believes the poor, the weak, the unfortunate, the sick, etc.,
> 
> should DIE, as a means to improve our species. So that's his formula for not keeping the poor poor. Kill them off.



Please show us all where that statement is located.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 13, 2017)

Markle said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Just for the record I'd like to point out that in another thread the author of this thread has stated that he believes the poor, the weak, the unfortunate, the sick, etc.,
> ...



Please do what I did and read the forum.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 13, 2017)

Markle said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > The dupes have totally lost contact with reality, since all help for blacks, both to survive and rise, is due to Dems,
> ...



They are not.  The real poverty rate is 4%, contrary to the BS you read in the MSM.


----------



## Markle (Apr 13, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It wouldn't hurt, but I seriously doubt any Republican can win over the black vote no matter what they do.



President Donald Trump won substantially more black votes than McCain or Romney.  Many looked at what petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama did to them over the past eight years and agreed with Trump, what have we got to lose?


----------



## Markle (Apr 13, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Defunding planned parenthood sure isn't going to help.



They claim that government funding is only a small portion of their budget so they won't miss the difference.  Besides, they're nothing more than an abortion mill.


----------



## Markle (Apr 13, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Please do what I did and read the forum.



So you don't know, you have nothing.  As we all knew!


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 13, 2017)

Markle said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > It wouldn't hurt, but I seriously doubt any Republican can win over the black vote no matter what they do.
> ...



Trump didn't run against Obama.

I'm not even surprised you don't know that.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 13, 2017)

Markle said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Please do what I did and read the forum.
> ...



Since you've read the thread I got the information from, that makes you the liar.


----------



## Markle (Apr 13, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> They are not. The real poverty rate is 4%, contrary to the BS you read in the MSM.



BY WALTER E. WILLIAMS 
RELEASE: WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 26, 2005, AND THEREAFTER

AMMUNITION FOR POVERTY PIMPS

In the wake of Hurricane Katrina's destruction of New Orleans, President Bush gave America's poverty pimps and race hustlers new ammunition. The president said, "As all of us saw on television, there is also some deep, persistent poverty in this region as well. And that poverty has roots in a history of racial discrimination, which cut off generations from the opportunity of America. We have a duty to confront this poverty with bold action."

The president's espousing such a vision not only supplies ammunition to poverty pimps and race hustlers, it focuses attention away from the true connection between race and poverty.

Though I grow weary of pointing it out, let's do it again. Let's examine some numbers readily available from the Census Bureau's 2004 Current Population Survey and ask some questions. There's one segment of the black population that suffers only a 9.9 percent poverty rate, and only 13.7 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. There's another segment that suffers a 39.5 percent poverty rate, and 58.1 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. Among whites, one segment suffers a 6 percent poverty rate, and only 9.9 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. The other segment suffers a 26.4 percent poverty rate, and 52 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. What do you think distinguishes the high and low poverty populations among blacks?

Would you buy an explanation that it's because white people practice discrimination against one segment of the black population and not the other or one segment had a history of slavery and not the other? You'd have to be a lunatic to buy such an explanation. The only distinction between both the black and white populations is marriage -- lower poverty in married-couple families.
* 
In 1960, only 28 percent of black females ages 15 to 44 were never married and illegitimacy among blacks was 22 percent. Today, the never-married rate is 56 percent and illegitimacy stands at 70 percent. If today's black family structure were what it was in 1960, the overall black poverty rate would be in or near single digits. The weakening of the black family structure, and its devastating consequences, have nothing to do with the history of slavery or racial discrimination.*

Dr. Charles Murray, an American Enterprise Institute scholar, argues in an article titled "Rediscovering the Underclass" in the Institute's On the Issues series (October 2005) that self-destructive behavior has become the hallmark of the underclass. He says that unemployment in the underclass is not caused by the lack of jobs but by the inability to get up every morning and go to work. In 1954, the percentage of black males, age 20 to 24, not looking for work was nine percent. In 1999, it rose to 30 percent, and that was at a time when employers were beating the bushes for employees. Murray adds that "the statistical reality is that people who get into the American job market and stay there seldom remain poor unless they do something self-destructive.

I share Murray's sentiment expressed at the beginning of his article where he says, "Watching the courage of ordinary low-income people as they deal with the aftermath of Katrina and Rita, it is hard to decide which politicians are more contemptible -- Democrats who are rediscovering poverty and blaming it on George W. Bush, or Republicans who are rediscovering poverty and claiming that the government can fix it." Since President Johnson's War on Poverty, controlling for inflation, the nation has spent $9 trillion on about 80 anti-poverty programs. To put that figure in perspective, last year's U.S. GDP was $11 trillion; $9 trillion exceeds the GDP of any nation except the U.S. Hurricanes Katrina and Rita uncovered the result of the War on Poverty -- dependency and self-destructive behavior.

*Guess what the president [President George Walker Bush] and politicians from both parties are asking the American people to do? If you said, "Enact programs that will sustain and enhance dependency," go to the head of the class.*

Ammunition For Poverty Pimps


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 13, 2017)

Markle said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > They are not. The real poverty rate is 4%, contrary to the BS you read in the MSM.
> ...



You give a poor person Medicaid, you make that person as much less poor as is the value of that healthcare insurance.

No?


----------



## Markle (Apr 13, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Ask a black man how he votes, he will tell you Democrat.
> Ask him why, and he will tell you Republicans are only for the rich white man.
> Ask who told him that, and he will tell you that the Democrats did.



Far, far more truth in that statement than many here wish to realize.


----------



## Markle (Apr 13, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> You give a poor person Medicaid, you make that person as much less poor as is the value of that healthcare insurance.
> 
> No?



What?  Is it impossible for you to complete a thought?

*In 1960, only 28 percent of black females ages 15 to 44 were never married and illegitimacy among blacks was 22 percent. Today, the never-married rate is 56 percent and illegitimacy stands at 70 percent. If today's black family structure were what it was in 1960, the overall black poverty rate would be in or near single digits. The weakening of the black family structure, and its devastating consequences, have nothing to do with the history of slavery or racial discrimination.*
*
Ammunition For Poverty Pimps
*


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 13, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Nothing but diversion from the right wing, like usual.


----------



## Markle (Apr 13, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> More times than not the product cost goes down, but the price to customers stays same. That's why we still have inflation.



Precious little the past eight years.  That's why Social Security recipients have not received any cost of living increases.  Which is fine with me.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 13, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Equal protection of the law regarding the concept of employment at will for unemployment compensation purposes, can solve simple poverty.  The right wing, doesn't like it.
> ...


Equal protection of the law regarding the concept of employment at will for unemployment compensation purposes, can solve simple poverty.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 13, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > It is about unemployment compensation for Labor simply being unemployed on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.
> ...


Nothing but appeals to ignorance from the inferior, right wing?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 13, 2017)

Markle said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > The dupes have totally lost contact with reality, since all help for blacks, both to survive and rise, is due to Dems,
> ...


They aren't.  You just like to appeal to ignorance.


----------



## Markle (Apr 13, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Trump didn't run against Obama.
> 
> I'm not even surprised you don't know that.



Yeah he did, I'm NOT surprised you didn't know.  Crooked Hillary Clinton tried very hard to show you.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> You give a poor person Medicaid, you make that person as much less poor as is the value of that healthcare insurance.
> 
> No?



What could they buy with Medicaid  that they couldn't buy before?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2017)

Markle said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > It wouldn't hurt, but I seriously doubt any Republican can win over the black vote no matter what they do.
> ...



What I meant  by that  is we will never win over the black  vote by a majority.  I don't see  that happening in our lifetime unless blacks suddenly get educated  on  politics and history.  More black  votes than in the  past?   Maybe, but even that's a  struggle.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Just for the record I'd like to point out that in another thread the author of this thread has stated that he believes the poor, the weak, the unfortunate, the sick, etc.,
> 
> should DIE, as a means to improve our species.  So that's his formula for not keeping the poor poor.  Kill them off.



What  you gonna  do?  Some people just think like that: 

'Trump must hang': Fresno State vows to 'review' professor's violent comments


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I seriously doubt that.  When the cost of something goes down, usually so does the price. After all, businesses compete against each other.

A   few years ago I bought a new big screen to replace my old broken one that couldn't be repaired any longer. I paid a little over 3K for it.  About a year later,  a coworker of mine bought one of the new  super HD televisions  for about $1,500, but it was only  a  40 inch  screen.

While talking about his purchase with the salesman,  he  mentioned my 80" television.  The salesman said they do have super HD that big, but they cost about 30K. 

Today you can buy a super HD television  like  mine for about  what I paid  for my regular HD three years ago.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 13, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Handing money to quitters and never workers will harm the economy and create more poverty.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 13, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



The healthcare at the time was not wanted by 60% of the people and they can't afford the deductibles.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 13, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I stayed on topic, you can't because you realize that the left has done nothing for poor black Americans.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 13, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



If prices were really going down, we would have deflation.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 13, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


nobody should take the right wing seriously about economics or the law.  

capitalism doesn't care, only socialists do.  only the right wing, never gets it.

capital must circulate to produce a positive multiplier effect on our economy.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 13, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Some on the left are advocating for equal protection of the law; the right wing, doesn't like it.


----------



## regent (Apr 13, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


So why do the blacks vote Democratic?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



No, prices  do go down on new products.  My father  bought me a VCR for Christmas back in the early 80's.  He paid around $700.00  for it.  When CD's  and  DVD's  became  the new thing, you could buy a VCR for around fifty bucks.  

Speaking of fifty bucks, that's what the new calculators cost when they first came out.  I remember as a kid when my parents took  us to the Home and  Garden  show that we had here every year.  Fifty bucks  was a lot of money back in the 70's  for a toy.  It had those  LED lights and only basic functions  like plus, minus and divide.  Today, banks give you calculators if you open up a free checking account.  Most phones have a calculator on them.  It doesn't cost anything.  

Cordless phones.  Are you old enough  to remember when they first came  out?  They were like $150.00 or more.  By  the time cell  phones became  popular, you could  buy a much better cordless phone for about twenty or thirty bucks.  

The point is that those greedy manufacturers don't keep the money in their pockets.  When their costs go down, so  does the price of their products.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 13, 2017)

regent said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


because the right wing is not offering better solutions at lower cost; the right wing has nothing but repeal.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Nobody on the left is advocating Equal Protection of the Law; only you are because you don't understand what it means or why it  was  created.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 13, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Projecting much, right winger?  The right has nothing but repeal, for a reason.


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 13, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Have you noticed all your examples are electronics?  If the prices of everything are going down as you say, why no deflation?

I've worked for several big companies, and yes they pocket the money more than they don't.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 13, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



*nobody should take the right wing seriously about economics or the law.* 

nobody should take an idiot like you seriously about economics or the law. 
*
capitalism doesn't care, only socialists do.* 

Explains the nirvana that is Venezuela, eh comrade?
*
capital must circulate to produce a positive multiplier effect on our economy.*

Capital circulates and multiplies better without handouts to the likes of you.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



That's the idea of having a business; to create products or services for a profit. 

This fallacy that if we had some law that stopped people  on the top from earning big money, that will trickle  down to the  workers  is nothing buy a  pipe dream.  It doesn't  work  that way. 

People  are not paid  for a job according  to the  profits of a company.  People are paid according to their worth  to a  company.  

Can  they take those profits and pay people a little more?  Sure they can, but it wouldn't be  anything  of notice  to the workers.  Take a  CEO who  makes  five million dollars  a year.  His company and subsidiaries have about 150,000 employees.  Now lower his  pay from five million to three million,  and divide the savings  by the  amount  of employees and see what you have. 

As for smaller companies  with no CEO, it  wouldn't be worth an investors time to  open  a  business  to  make  the  same as  his  employees.  It wouldn't  make  sense  to open  up a business  if he  made twice,  three times, or ten times his  employees.  He  must  make  much more (if he can) as compensation  for his financial risk, the hours he had to put in, and the  operation  of the  business.


----------



## Thinker101 (Apr 13, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



Actually it appears more like those on the left are into elimination of laws.


----------



## sealybobo (Apr 13, 2017)

jc456 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Just like you defended bush for 8 I expect you to worship trump no matter what


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Elimination of laws?  Like what?  Seems to me they love to create new laws  all the time  that make our life harder.


----------



## Thinker101 (Apr 13, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



In case cities such as Baltimore and Oakland.  Same as with Sanctuary Cities, conveniently decide which laws to enforce and which to ignore....hell wasn't that part of Obama's agenda?


----------



## Brain357 (Apr 13, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Corporations have plenty of profits to pay better.  Profits have been increasing for many years.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 13, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


In other words, nothing but repeal.  I got, right winger.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...



Yes, but the elimination  of  laws and the ignoring  of laws are two different things.  I  would agree with you that Democrats do ignore laws that they simply don't  like; the Constitution  is  full of them.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



So?  What does  that  have to do with  paying workers? 

Nobody overpays  workers including  you or I.  Why should corporations  and companies be any different?


----------



## Thinker101 (Apr 13, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Slow that camel down, some of us prefer "Deplorable".


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 13, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Make us more like Venezuela, eh?


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 13, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


And now 55% are for it, more all the time as they figure out the GOP propaganda machine was FOS and what they want now is much worse DUHHHH. It needs a little time for competition and further regulation DUHHHH....


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 13, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Could you brainwashed morons get off Venezuela ferchrissake. It's a 3rd world oil collapse mess no matter what gov't. Socialism is also the gov't in the EU, Canada, OZ, NZ and even here now we have ACA- though a gd pander to the rich GOP mess..


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 14, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



*Could you brainwashed morons get off Venezuela ferchrissake*

Did socialism fail to make it a paradise?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 14, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


dear, we have the Best form of Socialism in the Entire World; Venezuela should be more like us.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 14, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Capitalism was not any better, or they would never have considered it, in the first place.  

In the US, capitalism had to "die" in 1929 for the "diehards" to let go of capitalism, for the bailout of more socialism.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 14, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Banking collapse is not capitalism failing.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 14, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



The left has proven that the are not for equal protection. Look how the hate poor black people.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 14, 2017)

regent said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I have no reason for blacks to vote Democratic. Democrats say the right thing, rarely do the right thing.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 14, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



It needs to be repealed and we go back to a system that was working, now the system is broke and Democrats aren't smart enough to figure it out.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 14, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Just right wing fantasy?  It was an economic "collapse" that resulted in FDR getting elected to three terms, not one term, like Hoover with his Hoovervilles.

Where is your laissez-fair in foreign policy?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 14, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


The right has nothing but fantasy or repeal.  

Some on the left are advancing the Cause, in the public domain.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 14, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Yup. Massive bank failures with the Federal Reserve allowing money supply to contract by 1/3rd.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 14, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


It was a "learning experience and curve"; who knew fiat money could not emulate gold with a gold Standard.  

Socialism is like Palmolive.  It is why we avoid third world economic collapses, in modern first world economies and times.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 14, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



The left has left the poor, the Democrats are the party of rich elitist.


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## jc456 (Apr 14, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


Based on what?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 14, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


Based on what?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 14, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


The right wing wants tax cuts for the rich and have nothing but repeal for public policies.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 14, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Corporations have plenty of profits to pay better.  Profits have been increasing for many years.



Actually if so they could use plenty of profits to lower prices and drive competition out of business. Do you understand?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 14, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


Why should I pay for your shit?


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 14, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



The Democratic Elitist try to pretend there are no poor.


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## sealybobo (Apr 14, 2017)

jc456 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


My experiences


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## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


quit your day job and go on welfare so you won't have to pay taxes; don't just whine about it.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Only the right wing soothsays and hearsays that about the democrats.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 15, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




face it dude,  the dem party needs a permanent dependent underclass that will vote for them to keep the free stuff coming.   Full employment and a booming economy is the last thing that dems want.   I am talking about todays socialist dems, not the dems of the past like Truman and Kennedy.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 15, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



And what would happen  to this country if we all decided to do that?  

Some people have morals and integrity you know......


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## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


The right wing just likes to pander about tax cuts, so the rich can get richer faster.


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## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


No, you don't.  You also don't believe in Capitalism.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 15, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


 Actually the permanent underclass is not enough for Democrats to keep winning that is why they have such a great love for illegal Mexicans coming into America as opposed to a normal immigration policy where we have people from all over the world coming into America


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## Redfish (Apr 15, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




the Bush/Obama tax cuts cut taxes for everyone that pays taxes, not just the rich.   Posting lies only makes you look like a fool.   so keep it up.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 15, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



That  is correct.  Democrats exist  and  have  some  power for two reasons: government dependents  and  victims.  The more  government dependents they can create, the more victims they can create, the more likely Democrat voters.  

Obama Care  and food stamps created over 40 million more new government dependents on those two programs alone.  Now is the time for them to create more victims if possible.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


right wing national socialism is not any better.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


It is not lies, but perception.  In case you missed it, your rich guy is in office, asking for tax cuts while being rich.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 15, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




I am quite sure that Trump pays a hell of a lot more to the federal government than you do.  His tax plan would cut taxes for the middle class.   the poor already pay no taxes.


----------



## regent (Apr 15, 2017)

Why doesn't the Republican party just pass a law that every adult American should have a job?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 15, 2017)

regent said:


> Why doesn't the Republican party just pass a law that every adult American should have a job?



Because we are not  a dictatorship. You  can't (or shouldn't be allowed) to tell people what to do with  their time.  If you hit a lottery number, inherit a good sum  of money, or can live off of your stock market investments, why would you get a job?  If you are a stay at home  mom,  why should government make  it  law that you have a job?


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 15, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



The left likes to pander to poor for votes, they don't really care about poor or black, just votes. Power is the hunger that drives the Democrats, without the poor and black, they lose.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 15, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Start a thread on it, we are talking why the left doesn't like poor blacks, so far it is very conclusive that the left only wants the black vote not the black problems.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Cutting taxes is only a solution, the first time.  Only the right wing likes to keep repeating historical mistakes and claim they are not really like that, afterward.  Government costs; why do You on the Right Wing, believe we have so much Debt?


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 15, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Why does the left hate poor black people? Lying and deception are the tools of the left. Why are progressive liberals more like the regressive?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


the right wing is worse.  they don't mind "punishing themselves and others with lucre".


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 15, 2017)

regent said:


> Why doesn't the Republican party just pass a law that every adult American should have a job?



they have many times such as when Clinton and Newt changed welfare to work fare, but then liberals back slide because they are dependent upon buying votes with what is  in effect stolen money


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 15, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



yes and the  biggest lie comes when they take the oath of office pledging to preserve and defend the Constitution when in truth they are in total disagreement with it.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > Why doesn't the Republican party just pass a law that every adult American should have a job?
> ...


Typical of the right wing; get a tax preference for capital gains to help create Jobs Booms, but "pocket the gain" and "blame the poor".


----------



## Redfish (Apr 15, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




and the left's solution is always more taxes, more spending, more debt.   Doesn't work, never has, never will.

We have so much debt because congress spends more than it collects, both parties are responsible.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 15, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > regent said:
> ...




you know, you really are a biased stupid asshole.  nothing you have posted is true.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 15, 2017)

Redfish said:


> [
> 
> 
> and the left's solution is always more taxes, more spending, more debt.   .



That's the conservative game.  To bolster the military.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 15, 2017)

Republicans figured out a long time ago that they could neglect the poor,

and minorities, and still win elections.

That is where they are.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Why can we afford a War on Drugs?  I would have preferred, a Mission to Mars.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


Your having nothing but fallacy, proves me right.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 15, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...




we need a strong military.   Do you know who gets jobs when money is spent on planes, ships, tanks, guns, armor, uniforms, boots, rations, housing?   Blue collar American workers, that's who. 

But in your small mind, giving a person food stamps and welfare is better than giving him a job.   Both require government spending,  think, fool, think.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

Redfish said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Nothing but convoluted logic? How much homelessness is there in alleged, Right to Work States.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 15, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Republicans figured out a long time ago that they could neglect the poor,
> 
> and minorities, and still win elections.
> 
> That is where they are.




creating good paying jobs for the poor is not neglect, it is respect and caring.   Making them slaves to the government is an insult.   America voted against slavery several times, the most recent November 2016


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

Redfish said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Republicans figured out a long time ago that they could neglect the poor,
> ...


The wealthiest have a capital gains preference to help create Jobs Booms, the poor do not.  Why blame the poor for a lack of Jobs Booms.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 15, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...




idiot,  many military construction jobs are union jobs.   Ever hear of the steelworkers union, the shipfitters union, the electricians union.  

you are a one trick pony.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 15, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...




no one is blaming the poor, the blame belongs in DC, with the liberal thinkers in both parties who would rather spend our tax money on welfare than on job creating projects.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


That is usually the right wing thinking it is one of their, twice a day moments.  Only the right wing wants to engender the Hellish conditions of Warfare on Earth, on a for-profit basis. 

Promoting the general welfare not the general warfare is in our social Contract.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 15, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...




what would happen if capital gains were taxed like regular income?   Any idea?   If you don't know, just say so rather than making a fool of yourself with a stupid answer


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


tell that to the right wing.  they don't like it.


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## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


no Jobs Booms?


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 15, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Seems you argue with yourself, why does the left hate the poor blacks, I you gave up arguing this point. You are now to they are worse than we are. Interesting how the defense was really nothing but a facade.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 15, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > regent said:
> ...



The only ones we see blaming the poor is the Democrats, they are who they blame for Trump being President, they blame the poor. The poor is also the reason we only give handouts and not helping hands, the Democrats don't believe in helping, only handouts.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


the left is pushing for a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage; the right has nothing but repeal.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


The democrats are for a higher minimum wage.  The right wing only blames the poor for not paying enough taxes.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 15, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


Whine is all yours


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


i am not the one whining about taxes.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 15, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


You defend bush?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 15, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


Neither am I.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Cool; how about equal protection of the law regarding the legal concept of employment at will, for unemployment compensation purposes.  We could solve simple poverty and improve the efficiency of our economy at the same time.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 15, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


You're whining about not collecting unemployment.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 15, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Forget about it.  You're not going to get unemployment, so  get a job instead.  

I don't know what country you're from, but obviously you can't get it through that thick head of yours that unemployment insurance is just that--insurance.  In this country, insurance kicks in when something happens to you through no fault of your own.  

If you don't get into an auto accident, you can't demand the insurance company pay you as if you did. 

If you get life insurance and didn't die, you can't collect the insurance as if you did die. 

If  your house did not  catch fire, you can't go to  your insurance company and  demand payment as if it did. 

Do you get it yet, or do you need pictures?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Why complain about me trying to convince our government to be legal to our own laws?  

Only less fortunate illegals should get the blame.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Apr 15, 2017)

I'd rather spend more on education and work training...

Of course, you won't even allow this.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Where is the Jobs Boom; nothing but slackers getting a capital gains preference but not creating a Jobs Boom?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 15, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




There are plenty of jobs around.  We need thousands in my line of work  alone.  The problem is our social programs and dope.  People can't  take jobs that drug test because  smoking pot is more important than working.  That leads us to social programs which they obviously are on since they don't work.  

Get rid  of the social programs except for the ones who truly need them, and  people  will take those  jobs that have been  lingering  out there  for years.


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## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


There are no, hypocrisy tests.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 15, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I have no idea WTF that  means  and  I'm sure  nobody else here  does as well.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 15, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I'm not complaining about your confusion and whining.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Only the right wing, never gets it.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 15, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


i don't whine about taxes.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 15, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



You're whining about not collecting unemployment.
And about capital gains taxes.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 15, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Only the right-wing?  How about everybody?


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Funny, you are the only one bringing up. LOL!


----------



## Redfish (Apr 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



wrong, that's the dems


----------



## Redfish (Apr 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




raising the minimum wage causes job loss and inflation.  It hurts the poor and middle classes the most.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Apr 16, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...




And keeps blacks exactly where Democrats/Liberals want 'em, in need, on the government plantation, and voting for Democrats.


Democrat demigod Roosevelt started it:

"FDR talked Congress into creating Social Security in 1935 and i*mposing the nation’s first comprehensive minimum-wage law in 1938. *While to this day he gets a great deal of credit for these two measures from the general public, many economists have a different perspective.

 The minimum-wage law prices many of the inexperienced, the young, the unskilled, and the disadvantaged out of the labor market. For example,* the minimum-wage provisions passed as part of another act in 1933 threw an estimated 500,000 blacks out of work."*
http://fee.org/media/12185/great-myths-print-final.pdf


----------



## Redfish (Apr 16, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




Also lets not forget that George Wallace. Lester Maddox, Bill Byrd, Hughey Long, and Bull Conner were democrats.

Their heritage is alive and well in the dem party of today.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Apr 16, 2017)

Redfish said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...




You left racist Democrat Bill Clinton off the list.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Thank you for proof! $15 an hour will assure the person will not get out of poverty. It is disgusting that the Democratic Party out and out, buys votes.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 16, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


i am "whining" about illegals whining about less fortunate illegals, to our own laws.

and I am "whining" about a lack of equal protection of the law, for the poor, under our form of Capitalism.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




who does not have equal protection under the law?   I guess Hillary Clinton might qualify since our laws apparently don't apply to her.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 16, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


the poor don't seem to be "able to afford" equal protection of the law; the rich can easily hire a subject matter specialist, to help them out.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




and the cure for that is-----------------------------------------?


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 16, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



His answer is government intervention.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



And your confusion about equal protection meaning unemployment checks for quitters and never workers.


----------



## regent (Apr 16, 2017)

I still suggest that the Republicans pass a law that requires everyone to have a job?


----------



## Markle (Apr 16, 2017)

In response to my statement that blacks are in worse shape today than 50 years ago.



danielpalos said:


> They aren't. You just like to appeal to ignorance.



Allow me:

BY WALTER E. WILLIAMS 
RELEASE: WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 26, 2005, AND THEREAFTER

AMMUNITION FOR POVERTY PIMPS

In the wake of Hurricane Katrina's destruction of New Orleans, President Bush gave America's poverty pimps and race hustlers new ammunition. The president said, "As all of us saw on television, there is also some deep, persistent poverty in this region as well. And that poverty has roots in a history of racial discrimination, which cut off generations from the opportunity of America. We have a duty to confront this poverty with bold action."

The president's espousing such a vision not only supplies ammunition to poverty pimps and race hustlers, it focuses attention away from the true connection between race and poverty.

*Though I grow weary of pointing it out, let's do it again. Let's examine some numbers readily available from the Census Bureau's 2004 Current Population Survey and ask some questions. There's one segment of the black population that suffers only a 9.9 percent poverty rate, and only 13.7 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. There's another segment that suffers a 39.5 percent poverty rate, and 58.1 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. Among whites, one segment suffers a 6 percent poverty rate, and only 9.9 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. The other segment suffers a 26.4 percent poverty rate, and 52 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. What do you think distinguishes the high and low poverty populations among blacks?*

Would you buy an explanation that it's because white people practice discrimination against one segment of the black population and not the other or one segment had a history of slavery and not the other? You'd have to be a lunatic to buy such an explanation. The only distinction between both the black and white populations is marriage -- lower poverty in married-couple families.

*In 1960, only 28 percent of black females ages 15 to 44 were never married and illegitimacy among blacks was 22 percent. Today, the never-married rate is 56 percent and illegitimacy stands at 70 percent. If today's black family structure were what it was in 1960, the overall black poverty rate would be in or near single digits. The weakening of the black family structure, and its devastating consequences, have nothing to do with the history of slavery or racial discrimination.*

Dr. Charles Murray, an American Enterprise Institute scholar, argues in an article titled "Rediscovering the Underclass" in the Institute's On the Issues series (October 2005) that self-destructive behavior has become the hallmark of the underclass. He says that unemployment in the underclass is not caused by the lack of jobs but by the inability to get up every morning and go to work. In 1954, the percentage of black males, age 20 to 24, not looking for work was nine percent. In 1999, it rose to 30 percent, and that was at a time when employers were beating the bushes for employees. Murray adds that "the statistical reality is that people who get into the American job market and stay there seldom remain poor unless they do something self-destructive.

I share Murray's sentiment expressed at the beginning of his article where he says, "Watching the courage of ordinary low-income people as they deal with the aftermath of Katrina and Rita, it is hard to decide which politicians are more contemptible -- Democrats who are rediscovering poverty and blaming it on George W. Bush, or Republicans who are rediscovering poverty and claiming that the government can fix it." Since President Johnson's War on Poverty, controlling for inflation, the nation has spent $9 trillion on about 80 anti-poverty programs. To put that figure in perspective, last year's U.S. GDP was $11 trillion; $9 trillion exceeds the GDP of any nation except the U.S. Hurricanes Katrina and Rita uncovered the result of the War on Poverty -- dependency and self-destructive behavior.

*Guess what the president [President George Walker Bush] and politicians from both parties are asking the American people to do? If you said, "Enact programs that will sustain and enhance dependency," go to the head of the class.

Ammunition For Poverty Pimps
*

[4/16/2017]  [Guess what petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama, and the Democrats did to the poor.  Yep, _*Enacted more programs that will sustain and enhance dependency," go to the head of the class.]*_


----------



## Markle (Apr 16, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> If prices were really going down, we would have deflation.



Not everything is included in the cost of living index specifically because of the volatility.


----------



## Markle (Apr 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Some on the left are advocating for equal protection of the law; the right wing, doesn't like it.



What is your definition of "equal protection"?


----------



## Markle (Apr 16, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Speaking of fifty bucks, that's what the new calculators cost when they first came out. I remember as a kid when my parents took us to the Home and Garden show that we had here every year. Fifty bucks was a lot of money back in the 70's for a toy.



I was in retail management at the time for a large chain.  We received some of the first pocket calculators.  A little thinner than a pack of cigarettes.  $59.95 and we could hardly keep them in stock.  You're right, add, subtract, multiply and divide was all it did.  Figuring for inflation from 1972 to today, the same item would be $349.66.  

The same year my wife and I bought a 24" console TV (with tubes of course) for which we paid $599.00 and today would be:  $3,493.70

US Inflation Calculator


----------



## Markle (Apr 16, 2017)

regent said:


> I still suggest that the Republicans pass a law that requires everyone to have a job?



To do that, are all the companies owned by the government?

Are you aware that the Newt Gingrich 1996 Welfare Reform Act was passed and signed, after being vetoed twice by President Bill Clinton?  That required anyone on Welfare to either work or are actively attending classes or a trade school.

That was done away with by petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama in his failed stimulus plan which, as you know, has led to millions more on welfare and other entitlements.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 16, 2017)

Markle said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Speaking of fifty bucks, that's what the new calculators cost when they first came out. I remember as a kid when my parents took us to the Home and Garden show that we had here every year. Fifty bucks was a lot of money back in the 70's for a toy.
> ...



I got my first apartment in 1980.  I wanted the best television around so I bought a beautiful Curtis Mathes.  It was a 25" screen.  I paid  $1,500 to buy it; I even took a bank loan to  get it.  

I had that thing for years, and never once seen a repairman.  Then  when  I got  my first  big screen, I gave  it to a friend, and she  had  it for years as well.  Who knows, maybe it still works today.


----------



## Markle (Apr 16, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Corporations have plenty of profits to pay better. Profits have been increasing for many years.



Do you know why those profits have increased?

So in your mind if a company does better and improves their profit, they should pay more?  Then if follows when they have tough times, like going through the recession of 2007/8 the employees share the loss by whatever cuts in their pay is necessary to keep the company profitable.  Right?


----------



## Markle (Apr 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Just right wing fantasy? It was an economic "collapse" that resulted in FDR getting elected to three terms, not one term, like Hoover with his Hoovervilles.



President Roosevelt was elected to four terms after his economic policies extended the Great Depression by seven years.  How long did the Depression of 1920 last and what was done to bring it to an end?

Immediately after FDR died on April 12, 1945, congress passed the 22nd Amendment March 27, 1947.  It was ratified by the states in short order on February 27, 1951.


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## Markle (Apr 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> right wing national socialism is not any better.



Do you even know the definition of Socialism?  Why don't you share with us what you believe is Socialism?


----------



## Markle (Apr 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Government costs; why do You on the Right Wing, believe we have so much Debt?



That would be petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama and his failed policies.


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## Markle (Apr 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> How much homelessness is there in alleged, Right to Work States.



What is an "alleged Right to Work State"?


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 16, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Just right wing fantasy? It was an economic "collapse" that resulted in FDR getting elected to three terms, not one term, like Hoover with his Hoovervilles.
> ...



FDR did not extend the Depression.  That's one of the more humorous rightwing myths.


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## danielpalos (Apr 16, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


"harass the judicature to do their job", at every opportunity.


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## danielpalos (Apr 16, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


employment is at the will of either party, not only the employer, for any Thing.  EDD must prove for-cause employment to deny at-will benefits.


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## danielpalos (Apr 16, 2017)

regent said:


> I still suggest that the Republicans pass a law that requires everyone to have a job?


Let's start in Right to Work States and call it, Truth in legislative Advertising.


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## danielpalos (Apr 16, 2017)

Markle said:


> In response to my statement that blacks are in worse shape today than 50 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


seems like a fallacy of composition through special pleading.  social mores are evolving along with our civil rights in modern times.


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## danielpalos (Apr 16, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Some on the left are advocating for equal protection of the law; the right wing, doesn't like it.
> ...


There is only one legal definition.  Get serious or stop trolling.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



*employment is at the will of either party, not only the employer, for any Thing.* 

Yup.  And no unemployment for quitters and never workers.


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## danielpalos (Apr 16, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Just right wing fantasy? It was an economic "collapse" that resulted in FDR getting elected to three terms, not one term, like Hoover with his Hoovervilles.
> ...


I meant re-elected, compared to only one term for Hoover who had the right wing fantasy of, laissez-fair.

It doesn't matter how much longer it was prolonged, it is academic, now; the right wing had no solution then, and were claiming, everything was fine, in 1929.


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## danielpalos (Apr 16, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > right wing national socialism is not any better.
> ...


Yes, I do.  I get my encyclopedic understanding of socialism from encyclopedias, not dictionaries.


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## danielpalos (Apr 16, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Government costs; why do You on the Right Wing, believe we have so much Debt?
> ...


all he did was, bailout the rich.


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## danielpalos (Apr 16, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > How much homelessness is there in alleged, Right to Work States.
> ...


why do you bother arguing politics?

look up, right to work state.


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## danielpalos (Apr 16, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


why does it work for firerers?  no labor tax breaks for firing labor.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



*why does it work for firerers?*

Firers have to pay a higher unemployment tax.
*
no labor tax breaks for firing labor*

Correct. They pay a higher tax.


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## danielpalos (Apr 16, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Labor doesn't make the law.  Legislatures are paid to manufacture legal products with the full faith and credit of public Acts.   It is just, lousy management.  

There is no reason any unemployment taxes could not be general taxes on firms.  It would be a savings over our current regime due to that simplification.  We could be lowering our tax burden and improving the efficiency of our economy.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



*We could be lowering our tax burden and improving the efficiency of our economy.*

Paying unemployment benefits to quitters and never workers would end up increasing our tax burden.
The resulting increase in unemployment would decrease GDP and shrink our economy.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> There is no reason any unemployment taxes could not be general taxes on firms



There are  no "unemployment  taxes"  there is only unemployment  insurance  REQUIRED  by law  for employers  to  have.   Unemployment  insurance can be provided by the state  or private insurance companies.   Insurance  CLAIMS  can  be  made  if one falls under the  category of said  coverage  which is losing  a job  through  no  fault of your  own. 

Why   is this  so difficult for  you to understand?????


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## danielpalos (Apr 16, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Yes, it does, simply Because, Capital must circulate to produce a positive multiplier effect on our economy.  No amount of right wing fantasy, can change that.


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## danielpalos (Apr 16, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > There is no reason any unemployment taxes could not be general taxes on firms
> ...


Labor doesn't make the law. Legislatures are paid to manufacture legal products with the full faith and credit of public Acts. It is just, lousy management. 

There is no reason any unemployment taxes could not be general taxes on firms. It would be a savings over our current regime due to that simplification. We could be lowering our tax burden and improving the efficiency of our economy.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Handing you money for never working is a waste of capital with a negative multiplier.
No amount of lazy, liberal weed smoking can change that.


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## Markle (Apr 17, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> FDR did not extend the Depression. That's one of the more humorous rightwing myths.



Now long did the depression of 1920/21 last and what was done to end it?

*FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate*
By Meg SullivanAugust 10, 2004
Category: *Research*

Two UCLA economists say they have figured out why the Great Depression dragged on for almost 15 years, and they blame a suspect previously thought to be beyond reproach: President Franklin D. Roosevelt

*After scrutinizing Roosevelt's record for four years, Harold L. Cole and Lee E. Ohanian conclude in a new study that New Deal policies signed into law 71 years ago thwarted economic recovery for seven long years.*

"Why the Great Depression lasted so long has always been a great mystery, and because we never really knew the reason, we have always worried whether we would have another 10- to 15-year economic slump," said Ohanian, vice chair of UCLA's Department of Economics. *"We found that a relapse isn't likely unless lawmakers gum up a recovery with ill-conceived stimulus policies."*

In an article in the August issue of the Journal of Political Economy, Ohanian and Cole blame specific anti-competition and pro-labor measures that Roosevelt promoted and signed into law June 16, 1933.

"President Roosevelt believed that excessive competition was responsible for the Depression by reducing prices and wages, and by extension reducing employment and demand for goods and services," said Cole, also a UCLA professor of economics. "So he came up with a recovery package that would be unimaginable today, allowing businesses in every industry to collude without the threat of antitrust prosecution and workers to demand salaries about 25 percent above where they ought to have been, given market forces. The economy was poised for a beautiful recovery, but that recovery was stalled by these misguided policies."

Using data collected in 1929 by the Conference Board and the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Cole and Ohanian were able to establish average wages and prices across a range of industries just prior to the Depression. By adjusting for annual increases in productivity, they were able to use the 1929 benchmark to figure out what prices and wages would have been during every year of the Depression had Roosevelt's policies not gone into effect. They then compared those figures with actual prices and wages as reflected in the Conference Board data.

In the three years following the implementation of Roosevelt's policies, wages in 11 key industries averaged 25 percent higher than they otherwise would have done, the economists calculate. But unemployment was also 25 percent higher than it should have been, given gains in productivity.

Meanwhile, prices across 19 industries averaged 23 percent above where they should have been, given the state of the economy. With goods and services that much harder for consumers to afford, demand stalled and the gross national product floundered at 27 percent below where it otherwise might have been.

"High wage and high prices in an economic slump run contrary to everything we know about market forces in economic downturns," Ohanian said. "As we've seen in the past several years, salaries and prices fall when unemployment is high. By artificially inflating both, the New Deal policies short-circuited the market's self-correcting forces."

The policies were contained in the National Industrial Recovery Act (NIRA), which exempted industries from antitrust prosecution if they agreed to enter into collective bargaining agreements that significantly raised wages. Because protection from antitrust prosecution all but ensured higher prices for goods and services, a wide range of industries took the bait, Cole and Ohanian found. By 1934 more than 500 industries, which accounted for nearly 80 percent of private, non-agricultural employment, had entered into the collective bargaining agreements called for under NIRA.

Cole and Ohanian calculate that NIRA and its aftermath account for 60 percent of the weak recovery. Without the policies, they contend that the Depression would have ended in 1936 instead of the year when they believe the slump actually ended: 1943.

Roosevelt's role in lifting the nation out of the Great Depression has been so revered that Time magazine readers cited it in 1999 when naming him the 20th century's second-most influential figure.

"This is exciting and valuable research," said Robert E. Lucas Jr., the 1995 Nobel Laureate in economics, and the John Dewey Distinguished Service Professor of Economics at the University of Chicago. "The prevention and cure of depressions is a central mission of macroeconomics, and if we can't understand what happened in the 1930s, how can we be sure it won't happen again?"

NIRA's role in prolonging the Depression has not been more closely scrutinized because the Supreme Court declared the act unconstitutional within two years of its passage.

"Historians have assumed that the policies didn't have an impact because they were too short-lived, but the proof is in the pudding," Ohanian said. "We show that they really did artificially inflate wages and prices."

Even after being deemed unconstitutional, Roosevelt's anti-competition policies persisted — albeit under a different guise, the scholars found. Ohanian and Cole painstakingly documented the extent to which the Roosevelt administration looked the other way as industries once protected by NIRA continued to engage in price-fixing practices for four more years.

The number of antitrust cases brought by the Department of Justice fell from an average of 12.5 cases per year during the 1920s to an average of 6.5 cases per year from 1935 to 1938, the scholars found. Collusion had become so widespread that one Department of Interior official complained of receiving identical bids from a protected industry (steel) on 257 different occasions between mid-1935 and mid-1936.

The bids were not only identical but also 50 percent higher than foreign steel prices. Without competition, wholesale prices remained inflated, averaging 14 percent higher than they would have been without the troublesome practices, the UCLA economists calculate.

NIRA's labor provisions, meanwhile, were strengthened in the National Relations Act, signed into law in 1935.

*As union membership doubled, so did labor's bargaining power, rising from 14 million strike days in 1936 to about 28 million in 1937. By 1939 wages in protected industries remained 24 percent to 33 percent above where they should have been, based on 1929 figures, Cole and Ohanian calculate.*

Unemployment persisted. By 1939 the U.S. unemployment rate was 17.2 percent, down somewhat from its 1933 peak of 24.9 percent but still remarkably high. By comparison, in May 2003, the unemployment rate of 6.1 percent was the highest in nine years.

*Recovery came only after the Department of Justice dramatically stepped up enforcement of antitrust cases nearly four-fold and organized labor suffered a string of setbacks, the economists found.*

"The fact that the Depression dragged on for years convinced generations of economists and policy-makers that capitalism could not be trusted to recover from depressions and that significant government intervention was required to achieve good outcomes," *Cole said. "Ironically, our work shows that the recovery would have been very rapid had the government not intervened."*

-UCLA-  LSMS368

Read more:  *FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate*


----------



## Markle (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Yes, I do. I get my encyclopedic understanding of socialism from encyclopedias, not dictionaries.



Have they a different definition?  How interesting.

Please, show us the difference or did you just learn what it is, and is not, after I challenged you?


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## Markle (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> why do you bother arguing politics?
> 
> look up, right to work state.



I know exactly what a right to work state is.

Your statement was an "ALLEGED right to work state".  What is an ALLEGED RIGHT TO WORK STATE?


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 17, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...




Correct me if I am wrong but if my federal taxes "give a person medicad "

I am poorer ..


WTF is this shit?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I swear, responding  to you is like typing with my computer off. You don't  know  the  difference between insurance and taxes?    No, they are not the same.  I just explained  the entire thing to  you, and you act as if you didn't read a word.  THERE ARE NO UNEMPLOYMENT TAXES!!!  They  don't exist outside  of your head.  

And WTF "legal products" does the legislature make?  What products?


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## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


nothing but fallacy?  thanks for making it easy for me.


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## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

Markle said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > FDR did not extend the Depression. That's one of the more humorous rightwing myths.
> ...


dears, laissez-fair capitalism gave us the, Great Depression.


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## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, I do. I get my encyclopedic understanding of socialism from encyclopedias, not dictionaries.
> ...


You have nothing but fallacy.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > why do you bother arguing politics?
> ...


You are still, clueless and Causeless.  Why not get a valid argument, instead?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


it is not a true insurance program.  We have State laws that cover insurance, not administrative laws.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



WTF do you mean by administrative laws?   You can't get a federal extension unless you exhaust your state benefits.  All states have to carry unemployment insurance.  


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


It is not a true insurance program.  It is a social safety net called, unemployment compensation insurance.  It should be used more effectively.

In any case, administrative law does not preempt a federal doctrine or State law regarding the legal concept of employment at will.

EDD should be required to prove a for-Cause employment relationship to deny or disparage at-will employment compensation benefits.


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## NYcarbineer (Apr 17, 2017)

bear513 said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...



Medicaid makes a poor person less poor because it allows that person access to something he can't otherwise afford.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 17, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...




yes, and that was true before obamacare.   What's your point?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I'm glad to point out your errors.


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## jc456 (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


so why wasn't there one under obummer?


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## jc456 (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...


what exactly do the poor have?  Please explain in details what they have and why they have it.


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## jc456 (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


that doesn't solve the problem as explained many times in here.  why are you so dense?


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## jc456 (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


I don't know what point you're after here.


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## jc456 (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


dude, it's been explained to you and yours so many times we have hair growing on the explanation.  Taxes!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF, open your eyes and read.


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## jc456 (Apr 17, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


probably explained one thousand times on this board.


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## jc456 (Apr 17, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...


It doesn't make the person less poor, it makes the person more poor.  It also makes the person giving the money more poor.  and that is your definition of progress?  fk your definition.


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## Markle (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> dears, laissez-fair capitalism gave us the, Great Depression.



Why do you refuse to answer simple questions I pose?
How long did it last and what was done to end the Depression of 1920?

I know exactly what a right to work state is.
Your statement was an "ALLEGED right to work state". What is an ALLEGED RIGHT TO WORK STATE?

Come one, step up, no guts no glory!


----------



## Markle (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> You have nothing but fallacy.



You arrogantly stated that YOU have an encyclopedic definition of Socialism, not a dictionary definition.  I inquired of you:

Have they a different definition?  How interesting.

Please, show us the difference or did you just learn what it is, and is not after I challenged you?

How did you become so weak or have you always been that way?

Show us what you've got, show some courage.  Simple questions.  You should be proud to answer them.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 17, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > dears, laissez-fair capitalism gave us the, Great Depression.
> ...



You expect a brainless wonder that can only quote mindless cliches is going to give you any kind of answer? He plays games, isn't interested in debate, just tossing nothing sayings is all the kid has.


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## Markle (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> You are still, clueless and Causeless. Why not get a valid argument, instead?



You questioned my knowledge of a right to work state.  My response was and you are incapable of an adult answer.

I know exactly what a right to work state is.

Your statement was an "ALLEGED right to work state". What is an ALLEGED RIGHT TO WORK STATE?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Yes, it does, simply Because, Capital must circulate to produce a positive multiplier effect on our economy. No amount of right wing fantasy, can change that.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


we had to, "bailout the wealthiest".


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## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


nothing but diversion?  even women are worth more, in the non-porn sector.

The wealthiest have a capital gains preference to help create Jobs Booms, the poor do not.


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## jc456 (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


solely on obummer making the rich richer there bubba.


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## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


having nothing but repeal, solves even less problems.  only the right wing, never gets it.


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## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Why am I not surprised, by the right wing.

We could solve simple poverty and improve the efficiency of our economy at the same time.


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## jc456 (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


I'm far from wealthy, but I have the same capital gains available to me.  so do the poor if they knew how to use it.

so again, what is it the poor don't have?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


This is why I don't take the right wing seriously about anything, much less economics or the law.

Where is the Jobs Boom; nothing but slackers getting a _capital gains preference_ but not creating a Jobs Boom?


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## jc456 (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


no, an actual plan as the right had in the 90s under clinton showed how it can be done.  you all tore it apart.  It worked and it pissed you all off and said never again.  so far you have succeeded. for eight years obummer did his best to add to the numbers.  And make the rich wealthier.  and you have the balls to come in here and blame the right.  let me laugh at you.....


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## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


inflation happens regardless.  increasing demand is good for the employment sector.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


already explained to you as I already pointed out.  TAXES.  stay naive my man.


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## jc456 (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


you can't throw money at a problem, just like you can't throw food at hunger.  doesn't make more food just  like it doesn't make new money.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > dears, laissez-fair capitalism gave us the, Great Depression.
> ...


A management failure to learn from historical mistakes:



> According to a 1989 analysis by Milton Friedman and Anna Schwartz, the recession of 1920–21 was the result of an unnecessary contractionary monetary policy by the Federal Reserve Bank.[13] Paul Krugman agrees that high interest rates due to the Fed's effort to fight inflation caused the problem. This did not cause a deficiency in aggregate demand but in aggregate supply. Once the Fed relaxed its monetary policy, the economy rapidly recovered.[14]--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depression_of_1920%E2%80%9321#Interpretations_of_the_1920-1921_recession


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## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > You have nothing but fallacy.
> ...


can you cite the dictionary definition?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


what libturd politicians do to loose all three branches of government.


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## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > You are still, clueless and Causeless. Why not get a valid argument, instead?
> ...


look it up dear.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



And the Democrats don't want to do that, they would lose the base of voters. No wonder liberals hate poor blacks.


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## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


You have nothing but repeal or right wing fantasy.  Only You, don't realize it.


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## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Yes, you can.  It is how most problems get solved, under Capitalism.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



It seems you can't  come up with ANY definition, you just keep blabbing nothing, especially since all know the difference between socialism and socialism.


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## jc456 (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
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I realize you live in pretendland.  makey uppy shitty land.


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## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
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Just right wing fantasy.  Actually having solutions should increase market share.


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## jc456 (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
> ...


no, no you can't and it has been proven over time.  It is the reason for the fall of the soviet union, you idiot.


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## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Yes, you can. It is how most problems get solved, under Capitalism. Only the right wing, never gets it.  The former Soviet Union, was socialist.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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No, the wealth of the blacks would be the downfall of the Democratic Party, now we know why the Democratic Party hates poor blacks.


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## jc456 (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
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exactly, and is why it fails every time.  socialism is a failure.  so stop trying to push it.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
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We do have employment at will.  You don't want to  work, then don't work and don't  get paid.    

Yes, unemployment is an insurance program.  The only unemployment safety  net is federal unemployment, and that's  only  issued by  the  President during tough times when there are few jobs  and  people  run  out of state  unemployment.


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## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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some solutions that may not work are better than nothing but repeal.


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## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
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> > jc456 said:
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dear, we have the best form of socialism in the entire world.  The rich can get bailed out and keep their multimillion dollar bonuses while on _means tested_ corporate welfare, and the poor can still have steak and lobster on their EBT cards.


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## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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It is about equal protection of the law.  Employment is at the will of either party, so is unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
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Handing money to layabouts is a waste of capital. Negative multiplier.
No amount of unemployed stoner whining can change that.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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It terminates Democrats market share and you also realize that. That is why you have nothing but a song and dance.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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You have no repeal, you want no repeal, repeal means your power ends. That is why you cry for no repeal, status quo is not your foe.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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It is equal protection.  If you get laid off from your job, you can collect unemployment.  If I get laid  off from my job, I can collect unemployment.  Anybody who loses their job through no fault of their own can collect unemployment.  Nobody is discriminated against.  How can it  be more equal than  that?


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## LeftofLeft (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
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....and yet a Middle Class still exists. USA Exceptionalism......no socialist or socialist wannabee could achieve this. Income Inequality????


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## Markle (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Markle said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
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You stated that YOU had an encyclopedic definition superior to the dictionary definition.  Yet you cannot produce either nor the difference.

Thank you for conceding that you are a failure.


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## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
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you are simply clueless and Causeless.


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## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


nothing but repeal may end republican market share.


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## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


you wish.  the right has no solutions; nothing but repeal.  the democrats pushed through healthcare reform.


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## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Employment is at the will of either party, not just the employer, for unemployment compensation purposes.  You have nothing but red herrings, right winger; simply learning how to fish for that, is worthless.


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## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

LeftofLeft said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
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We have a mixed market economy; socialism is like Palmolive, you are soaking in it.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



And yet, can still point out the huge holes in your "ideas".


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## danielpalos (Apr 17, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
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> > Markle said:
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irrelevant; just conjecture on your part without any argument in support.  that is just, unsubstantiated opinion, nothing more.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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*Employment is at the will of either party, not just the employer, for unemployment compensation purposes.*

Nope, just for employment purposes.
For unemployment, you don't qualify if you quit or never worked.


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## American_Jihad (Apr 17, 2017)

DOTR said:


> Democrats are about power. And keeping people poor and dependent is a way to stay in power. it is that simple. They can't threaten me over health care...I pay for my own. I dont care if government cuts food stamps, section 8, welfare or head start. That makes me an obstacle for them to overcome and they do it with their dependent class.
> Government handouts create serfs.


That's why they like to let people out of prison and let everybody in the world into America for the VOTE, they actually want a one party system and total control which in all reality would be the end of America as we know today. I hope they NEVER get their way...


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## Papageorgio (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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The Democrats passed health care because they hate poor blacks and want them to resign to the fact the democrats will always need poor blacks, no matter how hated they are by Democrats.


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## LeftofLeft (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Limited Socialism, Greater Capitalism. The moment Socialism exceeds Capitalism here in the US, our economy will look like the failed and limited models elsewhere in the world. At that point, there will be no Middle Class to speak of.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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I'm  trying to make out  what you are saying; your punctuation is atrocious and  I'm  doing what I can to piece together your words to make a coherent sentence.   

Yes, unemployment compensation is when you lose your job through no fault of your own.  If it is  your fault, say you threatened somebody at the  company, you got caught stealing, coming  to work late all the time, you don't  get compensated for that because it's your fault (not your employers) that  you got  fired.  

Insurance is to cover you for things you don't have control over.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


No, you can't.  You can't even come up with a better solution at lower cost; that is why, you have nothing but repeal.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Is that State, an employment at will State, or not.  It really is that simple.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


that makes no sense.  more sense is, the right hates blacks, and refuse to come up with better solutions at lower cost, as a result.

i love to "compete" for fun and practice.  Ask Boss or Ding.


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## Redfish (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




a better solution than paying unemployment????   How about creating jobs?   Pretty simple, but it only fixes it for people that want to work.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

LeftofLeft said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > LeftofLeft said:
> ...


I like to blame the right wing for our fiscal dilemma.  Our Founding Fathers were wise enough to limit the amount of socialism in our Government, _to paying the Debts, and providing for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States_; not, every Thing and any Thing, the fantastical right wing would have us believe may be necessary, for not merely the common defense, but also the common offense and the general warfare.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


A Person has a Cause in any open Court in the several, United States.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Capitalism has a natural rate of unemployment; it is a natural rate of inefficiency from a social perspective of full employment of human capital resources.  Unemployment compensation can correct for that capitalism based inefficiency, via the socialism of equal protection of the law, for Labor, as the least wealthy in our Republic.


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## Redfish (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




correct, there will always be a small % of unemployed under any system.   Most of them will be  those who are mentally or physically unable to work----and the system should take care of those people. 

But, unfortunately, what we have today in the US is a group of unemployable people, either by their personal choice or because they have not gained the skills needed to do any kind of work.   We have generations of unemployed in our central cities and in some rural areas.   Our system does nothing to solve this problem,  continuing the giveaways, as you libs want to do, does not solve the problem, it perpetuates it.  

Now, if those chronically unemployed were required to clean the streets and public buildings in exchange for their UE checks, you would see many of them finding jobs.


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## LeftofLeft (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



The blame is on the Left wing that insists on egregious spending to the point that it calls a lower-than-requested increase in spending a "cut" and such "cut" will hurt the general welfare.


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## Redfish (Apr 18, 2017)

LeftofLeft said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > LeftofLeft said:
> ...




agree, it amazes me that when the clowns in DC reduce the rate of increase in a budget line, they call it a cut.   So instead of adding 10% to a budget, they only add 8% and call it a cut when the budget is actually 108% of the previous years budget.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


You are merely mistaking this simple solution for what you are already used to.

How will correcting for capitalism's natural rate of (poverty inducing) unemployment be Bad and not Good for Labor, in the Age of Corporate Welfare, not the Age of Iron?


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

LeftofLeft said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > LeftofLeft said:
> ...


It is the right wing that believes it must be real times of Peace, so we can, "stand down" and rely on our Commerce Clause; by lowering taxes.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Redfish said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


I would agree with you; if the right wing in Congress could tell the difference between the common offense and the common defense.


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## jc456 (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


I already explained, the right gave respect back to welfare folks in the 90s.  you all took that away in 2009.  WTF?  you should learn history.


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## jc456 (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


which it does today.  you're just flopping around out of water fish!!!


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## Papageorgio (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



The Democrats want power, they keep power by keeping the low and down trodden, low and down trodden, however you knew that because you subscribe to the theory.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Pushed only to serve their power hungry agenda, it wasn't passed for poor blacks, it was passed for rich whites.


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## jc456 (Apr 18, 2017)

obummer increased regulations through the use of EOs for most business in the US to increase the unemployed numbers.  It was intentionally done.  So danielson, find a new hobby.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



The way to keep the down trodden, the down trodden, is by promising everything, giving them little and blame it on others. That is what the Democratic Party has done to the poor for decades. LBJ was right, hate them but pretend to like them and you have their vote for a long long long time. LBJ had it right all along.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 18, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



All he has is canned responses, that way he doesn't need to think, just do what he is told.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


nothing but repeal, is all the right wing has now.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


just clueless and Causeless; i got it.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


the democrats got some health care reform; the republicans and right wing have nothing but repeal, and don't mind dropping expensive bombs while claiming we can keep lowering taxes.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


nothing but excuses, in the non-porn sector?  the right wing still has no Thing but repeal instead of any form of better solution at lower cost.


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## jc456 (Apr 18, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


I have no fking clue what he is even discussing.  I don't talk stupid. It would be nice if he was writing coherently so a normal person would understand his position.  right now, he is but a fish flopping out of water.


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## jc456 (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


and yet ten times whatever you are.  dude, keep flopping.


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## jc456 (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
> ...


it is better than what is active today.  yep!!!!


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## jc456 (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


democrats wouldn't know how to spell the word reform. magically, you were able to.


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## jc456 (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


again, repeal is better than what exists today.  just saying.  if it wasn't, the dems wouldn't be looking at reforming anything.  right?


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


simply clueless and Causeless while claiming equal work for equal "pay"?


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Unemployment compensation can correct for that capitalism based inefficiency, via the socialism of equal protection of the law, for Labor, as the least wealthy in our Republic.


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## jc456 (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


dude, do you have anything to say in English yet?


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


he right hates blacks, and refuse to come up with better solutions at lower cost, as a result.


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## jc456 (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


in English please,  fish!!!


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## jc456 (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


fk dude, can't you write in English?


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


all talk and not action?  even "free chics" can do that.


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## jc456 (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


well fk, when you want something, learn to ask in English.  that is all I'm speaking in here.


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## Redfish (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




are you saying that "equal protection under the law" means that everyone gets the same pay no matter what job they do?


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## jc456 (Apr 18, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


well if he wrote in fking English, you'd know what he's asking.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


*
No, you can't.*

Sure I can. If you pay layabouts to lay about, they will.
This reduces GDP and will result in higher taxes and lower productivity.

*You can't even come up with a better solution at lower cost*

Sure I can....get a job, lazy bum.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Yes. Get a job.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Which has nothing to do with the hate of the Democrats for poor black people, you have provided nothing but a smokescreen to your nefarious agenda.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 18, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



He doesn't discuss anything and nothing more than a line two of some silly childish saying that means absolutely nothing and is way off topic. That is how clueless the left is.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



You are clueless and causeless, thanks for admitting you are an average democrat.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Repeal is usually a better course of action than continuing down the wrong road. Obamacare is a disaster for the middle class and especially the poor.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 18, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...




Maine Food Stamp Work Requirement Cuts Non-Parent Caseload by 80 Percent


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




WTF is that even supposed to  mean?  What courts?  What several states?  What are  you talking about?


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## Markle (Apr 18, 2017)

Redfish said:


> agree, it amazes me that when the clowns in DC reduce the rate of increase in a budget line, they call it a cut. So instead of adding 10% to a budget, they only add 8% and call it a cut when the budget is actually 108% of the previous years budget.



My guess is that you could tell that to 95% of voters and they would swear you are lying.  To them, if you say a 2% cut, that means you took the 100% from last year and instead of it being 108% this year it will be 98%.  They don't have a clue and congress doesn't want them to have a clue.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


no, only right wing doesn't understand the difference between socialism and communism.  how seriously can we take them, in politics.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


you are merely, too incompetent to discuss politics.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


You have no idea what you are talking about.  Economics is not a right wing, forte.

Simply circulating capital is what creates a positive multiplier effect on our economy.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


don't mooch and be a welfare recipient for arguments.  work hard and get a real argument.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


nothing but repeal; how, full of worth is that, in the non-porn sector?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



*Economics is not a right wing, forte.*

I agree, just because liberals are really, really bad at it doesn't mean it's exclusively for the right wing.
*
Simply circulating capital is what creates a positive multiplier effect on our economy.*

So, so wrong.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


Is Maine an at-will employment State or not?



> Select a Section 1/0
> 
> In 2015, the U.S. government spent over $1 trillion on means-tested welfare aid, providing cash, food, housing, medical care, and social services to poor and low-income individuals. The food stamp program is the nation’s second largest means-tested welfare program.[1] The number of food stamp recipients has risen dramatically from about 17.2 million in 2000 to 45.8 million in 2015.[2] Costs have risen from $20.7 billion in fiscal year (FY) 2000 to $83.1 billion in FY 2014.[3]
> 
> ...


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Yes, it does, simply Because, I say so.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I'm sorry that your mental illness makes it more difficult for you to find employment.


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## Markle (Apr 18, 2017)

It almost appears that far left wing Progressives such as danielpalos have been assigned certain threads with orders to overwhelm them with nonsense posts.  The sole purpose being to deflect, detract and dilute any and all legitimate posts so they may go unnoticed.

Another sign of the sheer panic and desperation of my Progressive good friends.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


This is the argument:  Simply circulating capital is what creates a positive multiplier effect on our economy.

Having nothing but fallacy for rebuttal instead of a better argument at lower cost, really is worthless in the non-porn sector.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Markle said:


> It almost appears that far left wing Progressives such as danielpalos have been assigned certain threads with orders to overwhelm them with nonsense posts.  The sole purpose being to deflect, detract and dilute any and all legitimate posts so they may go unnoticed.
> 
> Another sign of the sheer panic and desperation of my Progressive good friends.


my unsubstantiated opinion, gainsays your unsubstantiated opinion.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Wow! you calling someone else incompetent. If that isn't irony, I find it amazing that you have the IQ to breathe.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Is Maine an at will? Why don't you go look it up since you can't seem to carry a rational thought.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



Repeal of a bad law is a better choice, that how it works in the non-porn sector.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


This is the argument: Unemployment compensation can correct for that capitalism based inefficiency, via the socialism of equal protection of the law, for Labor, as the least wealthy in our Republic.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Yes, the State of Maine alleges to be an, at-will employment State.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


only in right wing fantasy.  even women make more in the porn sector.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



No, the argument is, why do democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently want them on welfare?

So far, al you have is diversion because you can't refute the claim. It's ok, we all know why the claim cannot be refuted, it is because it is true.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
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Then why would you ask? Seems like you have no cause.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I wouldn't know what you make in the porn industry. 

I'd repeal a bad law, never keep what cannot be fixed, the Obamacare is bad and hurts the poor and middle class.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


That is your argument.  The right still has nothing but repeal. 

Unemployment compensation can correct for that capitalism based inefficiency, via the socialism of equal protection of the law, for Labor, as the least wealthy in our Republic.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


To verify that legal fact in the public domain; for full faith and credit of public Acts, dear; want to argue it in the Public Domain?


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


yes, the right wing has nothing but repeal and no better solution at lower cost; even wo-men in the non-porn sector, are worth more than that.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



You have the wrong argument, you just want to divert because you hate poor blacks and need them to be subjugated to you. The power hungry Democrats can't get enough power, look at the way they flail when they lose, they have all lost their minds and have nothing but violence.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I don't care what you argue, you have yet to put up any arguments. You give diversion as to why you hate poor blacks.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Right end Obama care, with that I agree, the current plan hurts poor blacks more so than not.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


dear, You have nothing but Diversion and Red Herrings.  That is all we got from "teaching the right wing, how to fish."


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



*This is the argument: Simply circulating capital is what creates a positive multiplier effect on our economy.*

Yes, the handouts to layabouts argument lost decades ago.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
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in right wing fantasy?  is that why the right could not muster even a repeal.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Just Red Herrings for learning how to fish, right winger?  Why not get a real argument; too much of a hard work ethic.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Then explain why the democrats hate poor blacks and want to keep them on welfare until they die. 

You are trying to frame your arguments off topic because of your inability to grasp the real hate of the Democratic Party.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



*This is the argument: Unemployment compensation can correct for that capitalism based inefficiency*

Creating a new class of unemployed, unemployables does not reduce inefficiency.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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You have no cause, just diversion, sad for you Democrats.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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I guess I could ask you why paying people to not produce would increase production.
It'll be fun to read your continued ignorance.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Do you want it repealed for the sake of being repealed? Are you that shallow?


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


They don't.  It is the right wing that has nothing but repeal instead of better solutions at lower cost.  It really is, worth less.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


That is Your Red Herring, fishmonger.

Capital circulating is what causes a multiplier effect.  the more people circulating money, the better it is for our economy.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
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dear, capital must circulate to create a positive multiplier effect on our economy.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


why do you bother arguing politics.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Capital circulating is what causes a multiplier effect. the more people circulating money, the better it is for our economy.



Really? 

Do you think Obama figured  that in when he  came out with Commie  Care forcing businesses and individuals to by insurance  they  really couldn't afford? 

Do you think Obama figured that in when he laid a fine on people who couldn't afford health insurance netting the US  government  over  a billion dollars a year? 

Do you think Obama figured that in  when  he closed down electric plants which increases the cost of electricity  for consumers? 

Do you  think the left  figured that  in when they pushed  for ethanol; ethanol which burns up our food supply while at the same time,  increasing  the  cost of food?  

Do you think Obama figured that in when he laid a sin tax  on tobacco users, closed down roll-your-own cigarette shops across the country, and stopped the American Indians from selling cigarettes via mail?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



So what do you mean  by an at will unemployment state, that they give unemployment to people who decide they just don't feel  like working anymore?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



I never heard of an at will employment state.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



*Capital circulating is what causes a multiplier effect.*

Taking capital away from the productive to hand it to the unproductive will never improve productivity.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I guess I could ask you why paying people to not produce would increase production.

So for once, be productive and explain. DERP!


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Capital circulating is what causes a multiplier effect. the more people circulating money, the better it is for our economy.
> ...


Nobody needs to take the right wing seriously about economics, or the law.

Fiscal multiplier - Wikipedia


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Don't like being legal to the law, but whine about less fortunate illegals?


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


did you know that even wo-men in the non-porn sector have more, worth, than right wing fallacy.


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## danielpalos (Apr 18, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


the laws of demand and supply don't stop working, just for right wing fantasy.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 18, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Yes, your ignorance of economics is both wide and deep.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 19, 2017)

Every question he avoids, lol! Daniel is an idiot who has no answers just hate, diversion and avoidance. He is a load of laughs. I mean read his tripe, no substance to his posts, just a lot of Neanderthal statements that a six year old could make, except a six year old is a lot smarter and will grow up into responsible adult, Daniel has no chance.


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## danielpalos (Apr 19, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Not as wide and deep as yours.  People spending more money creates more demand.  Capitalists usually need more labor to meed more demand.


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## danielpalos (Apr 19, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Every question he avoids, lol! Daniel is an idiot who has no answers just hate, diversion and avoidance. He is a load of laughs. I mean read his tripe, no substance to his posts, just a lot of Neanderthal statements that a six year old could make, except a six year old is a lot smarter and will grow up into responsible adult, Daniel has no chance.


I haven't avoided anything.  All y'all have, is just plain fallacy and the resulting fantasy.


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## jc456 (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


so if you knew the answer, why did you post the question?


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## jc456 (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


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## jc456 (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


off topic......what year did that happen?


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## jc456 (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


perhaps you could explain your philosophy here.


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## danielpalos (Apr 19, 2017)

nothing but fallacy from the right wing?


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## jc456 (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


that's a different statement then what you've been making.  but glad you finally got something right.  wow, blind squirrel


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## danielpalos (Apr 19, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


A fiscal multiplier effect is what I am referring to.


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## danielpalos (Apr 19, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


i have been saying the same thing, the whole and entire time; y'all are just clueless and Causeless.


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## jc456 (Apr 19, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Every question he avoids, lol! Daniel is an idiot who has no answers just hate, diversion and avoidance. He is a load of laughs. I mean read his tripe, no substance to his posts, just a lot of Neanderthal statements that a six year old could make, except a six year old is a lot smarter and will grow up into responsible adult, Daniel has no chance.


and still not in English.


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## jc456 (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


explain it.  let's see some links that back your argument son!  can you participate in a thread the way it was intended, rather than just write the same post fifty times?


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## jc456 (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


no, no you haven't.


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## Redfish (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




is English your second or third language?   that last post is jibberish.


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## jc456 (Apr 19, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


that's all that dude has.  I have been asking for about ten posts for him to speak in a tongue the rest of use, like English.


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## danielpalos (Apr 19, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Is it not a self-evident truth, that money circulating, "multiplies" transactions?


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## danielpalos (Apr 19, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Yes, I have.  I even got banned from USPoliticsOnline, as proof.


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## danielpalos (Apr 19, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


it doesn't matter to me.  this is politics.  only wo-men make excuses regarding language.


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## danielpalos (Apr 19, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


dudes; i could win my arguments with "google translate"; y'all ONLY have excuses, like wo-men.


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## danielpalos (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


How do Any transactions occur, without Any money circulating?


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## jc456 (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


huh?


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## jc456 (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


dude, the target audience speaks English.  It would be helpful if you utilized the English language in order to maintain a discussion.  thanks.


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## danielpalos (Apr 19, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


like I have claimed in the past; y'all are just clueless and Causeless.


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## danielpalos (Apr 19, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


Dudes; if You are not "bright enough" to understand the concepts, why should anyone take the right wing seriously about economics or the law?


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## jc456 (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


what concepts? See you need to post in English, what the fk are you talking about?  So far the repeated jibberish is just that, jibberish.  It's a fking message board with rules.  Why not try following them?


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## danielpalos (Apr 19, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


How do Any transactions occur, without Any money circulating?

Dudes; if You are not "bright enough" to understand the concepts, why should anyone take the right wing seriously about economics or the law?


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## Redfish (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




yes, when money is spent there is an economic multiplier.  When credit is granted it has the effect of increasing the money supply.   All that is why supply side economics works and a government controlled economy does not. 

No one here knows what point you are trying to make.   Either try to post a logical explanation in English or just shut up and go away.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Every question he avoids, lol! Daniel is an idiot who has no answers just hate, diversion and avoidance. He is a load of laughs. I mean read his tripe, no substance to his posts, just a lot of Neanderthal statements that a six year old could make, except a six year old is a lot smarter and will grow up into responsible adult, Daniel has no chance.
> ...



You avoid every question, you somehow think if you reply to a post you are answering a question? One day you will grow up, just not today.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


Getting banned is proof? LOL! Really? That is about the dumbest thing I have heard. Maybe you are the one clueless and causeless and that is why you were really banned. Keep digging clueless and causeless.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 19, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



Because he is clueless and causeless.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I'm not, I am arguing with you, which has nothing to do with politics. You are only here for my entertainment.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Taxing the productive reduces their productivity as well as their demand.
That's why it's a negative multiplier.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



WTF does "being legal to the law" mean and what does that have to do with what I asked? 

You said (I think) that Maine is an at will unemployment state and I asked you for proof. 

Bad enough you can't write English, you can't understand it either.  


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Economics is when government takes more money from its citizens, there is less money for them to spend.   


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## jc456 (Apr 19, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


maybe it's pig latin.  I'm not sure.  I've been trying to fit into different models, and I keep getting back a note it does not compute.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 19, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Must be a really bad translation program or something.  


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## jc456 (Apr 19, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


I know right?  I mean, jibberish is spoken so much.


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## Markle (Apr 19, 2017)

NO LONGER DOES IT APPEAR!  Far left wing Progressives such as danielpalos have been assigned certain threads with orders to overwhelm them with nonsense posts. The sole purpose being to deflect, detract and dilute any and all legitimate posts so they may go unnoticed.

Another sign of the sheer panic and desperation of my Progressive good friends.


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## danielpalos (Apr 19, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Y'all are always so busy quibbling a point y'all never had, and forget the point.  The point is employment compensation on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.

Capital must circulate.


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## danielpalos (Apr 19, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


just right wing fantasy, like usual.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Get your own capital.


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## danielpalos (Apr 19, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Nothing but diversion?  It is about correcting for capitalism's laissez-fair laziness regarding full employment of capital resources in the market for labor.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Handing you money is a waste of capital.


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## danielpalos (Apr 19, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


dear, being legal to our own laws means being legal to State law regarding the legal concept of employment at will, for unemployment compensation purposes.


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## danielpalos (Apr 19, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Like i always claim; just right wing fantasy.


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## danielpalos (Apr 19, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


In the Age of Corporate Welfare?


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## danielpalos (Apr 19, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


arguing economics with the right wing; has to be for fun and practice on a not-for-profit basis, for some on the left.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I don't present fantasy, I present facts.  Now unless  you can provide resources to dispute my facts, there is no fantasy involved.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



You don't even know what the word  "legal" means or how to use it in English.  If you meant to say "being compliant with our laws" that  would make sense.  But of course, you never do make  sense.  

No state gives  unemployment benefits to people that no longer wish to work.  There is no such thing as employment at will to claim unemployment benefits.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



It does?   Then let me ask, do you pay a lawn care company to not cut  your lawn?  Do you pay a garage  to not fix your car?  Do you pay a plumber to not work on your plumbing?  Then why do you think you should get paid  because you don't want to work any longer?


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## danielpalos (Apr 19, 2017)

In other words, the right wing hates the poor and has no solutions and nothing but repeal, to prove it.


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## Thinker101 (Apr 19, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> In other words, the right wing hates the poor and has no solutions and nothing but repeal, to prove it.



I see, evidently reading comprehension is not one of your strong suits.


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## francoHFW (Apr 19, 2017)

OP- Silly stuff, for dupes only. Every investment in memory in education, training and job program for blacks has been from Dems....every cut and racist sentiment from the GOP.


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## Thinker101 (Apr 20, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> OP- Silly stuff, for dupes only. Every investment in memory in education, training and job program for blacks has been from Dems....every cut and racist sentiment from the GOP.



"_Every investment in memory in education, training and job program for blacks has been from Dems_"....and look at them now.


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## francoHFW (Apr 20, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > OP- Silly stuff, for dupes only. Every investment in memory in education, training and job program for blacks has been from Dems....every cut and racist sentiment from the GOP.
> ...


Proud and correct, hater dupe. 50%+ chance racist and ignorant as well you are....


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## ScienceRocks (Apr 20, 2017)

Why do conservative oppose federal grants, more education and work programs that could get them off of it??? 

I don't believe throwing them onto the side of the street is the right way to do it.


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## ScienceRocks (Apr 20, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > OP- Silly stuff, for dupes only. Every investment in memory in education, training and job program for blacks has been from Dems....every cut and racist sentiment from the GOP.
> ...




What's your solution? Dump them onto the street and let them live in the trash can I bet. 

Doesn't work, just look at india or africa.


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## Thinker101 (Apr 20, 2017)

Matthew said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



What is my solution to what?  Every investment in memory in education, training and job program for blacks has been from Dems.  So evidently they're doing fine.


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## francoHFW (Apr 20, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...


The GOP has been cutting them for 35 years at least, so no...


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2017)

Matthew said:


> Why do conservative oppose federal grants, more education and work programs that could get them off of it???
> 
> I don't believe throwing them onto the side of the street is the right way to do it.



Why should they get federal grants instead of loans like anybody else?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> OP- Silly stuff, for dupes only. Every investment in memory in education, training and job program for blacks has been from Dems....every cut and racist sentiment from the GOP.



This may be correct.  I've seen it first hand when I went to electronics school back in the early  80's. 

The teacher drew two resistors of equal value on the chalkboard.  He also drew  a 12 volt battery and went on to explain that each resistor absorbs 6  volts.  6+6=12.  

He asked if there were any questions, and after the rest of the class chuckled, a black guy raised his hand.  He asked the dumbest questions like how did he know the battery was 12 volts?  Why doesn't the  first resistor use more voltage than the  second one because it's closer?  Why does each one absorb 6  volts and so on and so on. 

While the teacher kept explaining the theory over and over again  for ten minutes, I turned towards the student next to me and said "I don't think this guy is going to make it!"  He replied "I know he won't.  This is his third time taking this class."  

The student next to me had to take the class over again because of illness, and this black guy was in his previous class. He found out the guy got the money for the class on a federal program.  They kept paying for that first term over and over again for this guy.  And who knows?  Maybe they paid for a fourth and fifth time for him to take that first term.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 20, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Alex: What are two wastes of capital?

Ding Ding!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 20, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Glad you're having fun.
It's better than being sad about the thrashing you've received.


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## Redfish (Apr 20, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 20, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



He's either a Marxist sitting in his mom's basement smoking weed, or he's a bot programmed to spew nonsense.


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## danielpalos (Apr 20, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > In other words, the right wing hates the poor and has no solutions and nothing but repeal, to prove it.
> ...


It is what the right wing, really means.


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## danielpalos (Apr 20, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > OP- Silly stuff, for dupes only. Every investment in memory in education, training and job program for blacks has been from Dems....every cut and racist sentiment from the GOP.
> ...


The right wing keeps complaining our poor are not poor enough, and should be made to "suffer" by denying and disparaging, steak and lobster privileges on their EBT cards.


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## danielpalos (Apr 20, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...


Specializing in "nothing but repeal", right winger?


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## Redfish (Apr 20, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




gotta be one or the other.  the fool can't even put a logical sentence together.   I guess he thinks that every worker should be a member of a union and that no company can ever fire anyone for any reason.   Typical liberal bullshit thinking.


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## Redfish (Apr 20, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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you idiot, its the dems that want a permanent underclass, dependent on them for everything and slaves to the government.


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## Thinker101 (Apr 20, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...




Deplorable right-winger!!


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## danielpalos (Apr 20, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...


The right wing keeps complaining our poor are not poor enough, and should be made to "suffer" by denying and disparaging, steak and lobster privileges on their EBT cards.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Show me one right-winger that ever said the poor are not poor enough and need to be made poorer.


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## francoHFW (Apr 20, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...


Every scumbag GOPer and dupe who ever argued against Reaganphones, min wage, Medicaid for the poor, free or cheap public college and loans and training etc etc etc...


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 20, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



yes we need to make America the land of moochers to make it great!!!


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 20, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




Shouldn't they be on a diet of lettuce and carrots? 

If we continue to get them fat and lazy who would work?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Dummy, you didn't answer the question; likely don't understand it either.


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## francoHFW (Apr 20, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


They  really should think of the implications rather than just shortsighted ideas of their wallets then.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 20, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> They  really should think of the implications rather than just shortsighted ideas of their wallets then.



we well understand the implications of crippling entire generations with more and more welfare entitlements. Democrats have controlled the inner cities for 50 years and turned them in hellholes just like Stalin  Mao Castro and Maduro did for Russia China Cuba and Venezuela.

Liberals are criminally and treasonously insane!! Our Consitution was designed to make them illegal.

Thomas Jefferson:
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.

My reading of history convinces me that bad government results from too much government.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



They are not thinking of "their wallets' they are thinking of ours.

We spent the last 50 years "giving" poor people everything, and what  are the results?  We  have nearly the same percentage of people in poverty than when we first started  the war on poverty.  It doesn't work and  never will.

You can't end poverty by giving things to people.  You can reduce poverty by making them  work for  it.

You want more money--work more hours.

You want to save more money--don't spend money you don't absolutely have to spend such as having  children at a young age with no career.

You want a better paying job?  Then learn a trade and pay for it yourself.  Go to college,  go to trade school, save  your money and start your own  business, live at home  with your parents as long as you can while you are young.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 20, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> We spent the last 50 years "giving" poor people everything, and what  are the results? .


 results: liberals concluded, just as Stalin did, that a more ambitious 10 year communist  plan is needed!!


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## danielpalos (Apr 20, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...



Drug testing welfare recipients but not the one percent, qualifies.


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## danielpalos (Apr 20, 2017)

bear513 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


The laws of demand and supply don't stop working twice a day, just so the right wing can be right.


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## danielpalos (Apr 20, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


The right wing hates the poor.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



So what's wrong with  drug testing?  We are not asking you to anything different than  us.  I have to get drug tested to keep my income , why shouldn't welfare people?  

Drug testing does not make the poor poorer.  So as always, you failed to answer my question.  You just make up lies as you go along.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Yes, we all know.  You've said that about 100 times  now.  Respond when you have something  different to say.


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## Thinker101 (Apr 20, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...




Especially those named Daniel.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 20, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


It does if they get caught. I'm against that anyway. GD GOP...


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## francoHFW (Apr 20, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


As if those who feel for the poor have to be poor. Dupes!


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




It does if they get caught?  Well what happens when a working person gets caught?  They become poorer because  they lost their job.


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## francoHFW (Apr 20, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


And it's pot they usually get caught on since it lasts so long. I see DUI pot is half as dangerous as DW talking on a phone hands free and 1/15 DWI alcohol. Stupid.


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## danielpalos (Apr 20, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Yes, it does, if they are on welfare.  Only the right wing, never gets it.  Why drug test the least wealthy and not the one percent?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 20, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


The right wing likea to deny and disparage the poor, steak and lobster on their EBT cards.


----------



## Thinker101 (Apr 20, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I agree with you 100%, take a look at all the movie stars that are willing to donate their time to make statements regarding what others should do.  Although, can't say I'm aware of many Hollywood A-listers opening their wallets or opening their homes to the less fortunate.


----------



## Thinker101 (Apr 20, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



You gotta either learn how to speak or learn how to type...your statement makes no sense.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



If working taxpayers that give them the money for their  EBT card  can't  afford steak and lobster, why should SNAP'S  card people be able to afford it?


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## danielpalos (Apr 20, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


dear, you have no sense; it is why i don't take the right wing seriously about economics or the law.


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## danielpalos (Apr 20, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


don't hate the poor.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Because the one percent is not living off  of our tax dollars, that's why. 

Welfare  people do not make their own money so they don't call the  shots.  When you make  your  own money,  you call the shots for yourself.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Nice dodge,  but you don't realize how obvious you are.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 20, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


dear, the poor and Mr. Trump only pay the taxes they are legally obligated to pay.  don't hate the poor.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 20, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


the right wing hates the poor, and want to deny and disparage them, so the rich can get richer, faster.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



 So WTF  does that have to do with what I said????


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## Bush92 (Apr 20, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


Conservatives want to empower the poor by getting them off welfare and to stop thinking themselves victims.


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## Thinker101 (Apr 20, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



So are you telling us you pay more taxes than you are legally obligated to pay?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Yes, you've said that 1000 times.  Do you think saying it 1001 times will make it any more clearer?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



He's on welfare and doesn't pay any taxes.  He's a taker--not a giver.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 20, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



I never heard that, interesting how you make up stuff and then pretend it is fact. I have a granddaughter who does that, she turns 5 next month.


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## Thinker101 (Apr 20, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



On welfare and can afford a computer and the bill for internet???


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## Papageorgio (Apr 20, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



So you can't. Lol! I knew you were a lying sack of crap.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 20, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...


If they vote Dem, they want their own taxes raised to help the poor and the nonrich. You're not aware of a helluva lot lol. Change the channel.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 20, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



So the Hollywood elitist don't want to voluntarily give money to the poor, they want government to take money from them and go to all of government and not give it just to the poor. What a bunch of rich bastards! Why do the liberals hate the poor?


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## Thinker101 (Apr 20, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Yea, I believe that.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 20, 2017)

The Democratic Party hates poor blacks and want them permanently on welfare. So far no liberal has disputed that fact, the only thing they can say is "Republicans are worse". So liberals justify their hate. Very pathetic people.


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## francoHFW (Apr 20, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...


There is more to politics than GOP character assassination, dupe. You should check out the issues and policies some day...Ay caramba...Enjoy the GOP tax cuts for the rich and cuts in services for the nonrich AGAIN...


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## Thinker101 (Apr 20, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Why thank you I shall enjoy.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 21, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...


So you're selfish rich, brainwashed, or nuts.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...



A conservative gets satisfaction by giving his or her money to the needy.  

A liberal gets satisfaction by  giving other peoples money to the needy.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...



The highest speed internet too.  

But he had to take that  package.  It's the only one they had for the 300 channel cable plan his service offers.


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 21, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




Steak and lobster.. Is only for the ones that can pay for it.. 


Get a job loser


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 21, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...




She is...


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 21, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



They aren't liberals, I know real liberals, real liberals will give and give freely, they didn't vote for Hillary because their conscience wouldn't allow them to. These so called liberals today, want others to do what they aren't willing themselves to do. They want to impose their ideas, values and control thoughts. These aren't liberals, they are Regressives, they are intolerant, bigoted, vindictive, not real liberals.


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## francoHFW (Apr 21, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


Charity doesn't work, falls down in bad times. The libs' money also goes and it works, not just a salve for a guilty conscience...


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## francoHFW (Apr 21, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


You mean use actual facts? They voted Hilary or were baffled by BS. How's the special prosecutor doing lol?


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 21, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Only criminals are on welfare and can afford internet. Daniel is not on welfare. Me neither, dupes. I did notice that Reaganphones get internet now if they are smartphones. Just enough to help with job search. 500 mb


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## danielpalos (Apr 21, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


It is the People's money.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 21, 2017)

Bush92 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


With what?  A "work or die" ethic.  The right wing doesn't love the poor as much as the rich under our form of Capitalism.


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## danielpalos (Apr 21, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Just lousy reading comprehension?

The nominal tax rate is over thirty percent.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 21, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


The facts are still, speaking for themselves.  



> In 2007, the top 20% wealthiest possessed 80% of all financial assets.[18] In 2007 the richest 1% of the American population owned 35% of the country's total wealth, and the next 19% owned 51%. Thus, the top 20% of Americans owned 85% of the country's wealth and the bottom 80% of the population owned 15%. In 2011, financial inequality was greater than inequality in total wealth, with the top 1% of the population owning 43%, the next 19% of Americans owning 50%, and the bottom 80% owning 7%.[19] However, after the Great Recession which started in 2007, the share of total wealth owned by the top 1% of the population grew from 35% to 37%, and that owned by the top 20% of Americans grew from 85% to 88%. The Great Recession also caused a drop of 36% in median household wealth but a drop of only 11% for the top 1%, further widening the gap between the top 1% and the bottom 99%.[17][19][20]
> 
> According to PolitiFact and others, in 2011 the 400 wealthiest Americans "have more wealth than half of all Americans combined."[21][22] Inherited wealth may help explain why many Americans who have become rich may have had a "substantial head start".[23][24] In September 2012, according to the Institute for Policy Studies, "over 60 percent" of the Forbes richest 400 Americans "grew up in substantial privilege".[25]--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States



Why does the one percent need a tax break when we massive debt?

They should be taxed at, "really really serious debt" levels, until we run, massive federal budget surpluses.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 21, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


I only pay the taxes I am legally obligated to pay.  Don't blame the poor for being better at tax avoidance, than Mr. Trump.


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## danielpalos (Apr 21, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...


She learn it from "grandpa"?


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## Thinker101 (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



I prefer deplorable.


----------



## Bush92 (Apr 21, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


Look at your birth certificate. Where does it say you are owed something?


----------



## Bush92 (Apr 21, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


No it is not Marxist.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



It works fine, always has and always will, it is more about you and you misconceptions of how life works. Selfish people such as yourself can't see that.


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## JQPublic1 (Apr 21, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


Seems to me conservatives take more from the needy than they give. Even now congressional conservatives are plotting to take healthcare from millions of poor people.
Conservatives are also against raising the minimum wage and are dedicated to destroying the middle class.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Typical Regressive response. Please keep ignorant. Me I like my real liberal friends, you Regressives need to die off. The sooner the better, your hate and bigotry is disgusting.


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## Thinker101 (Apr 21, 2017)

JQPublic1 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



Get a fricken job.


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## Redfish (Apr 21, 2017)

JQPublic1 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...




bullshit.  the ACA hurt the middle and lower classes much more than it hurt the rich.  Higher premiums and deductibles are not a big deal for rich people, but they can devastate a middle class family. 

Obamacare must go.   The GOP missed an opportunity, they better get it done soon.


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## danielpalos (Apr 21, 2017)

Bush92 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...


My State Constitution says I am "owed" equal protection of the law.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 21, 2017)

Bush92 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


The power to tax to fund government is delegated to our federal Congress; so, yes, it is, Government's money.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 21, 2017)

JQPublic1 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



The right wing hates on the poor, but "gets political" and "blames the left".


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## danielpalos (Apr 21, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Have a fricken Jobs Boom for a capital gains preference, slackers.


----------



## JQPublic1 (Apr 21, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


I have a job. I am CEO of Konservative Watch Inc.


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## francoHFW (Apr 21, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


RW idiocy.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 21, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Classical liberals?  may not be up on the latest RW BS. What bigotry? LOL


----------



## JQPublic1 (Apr 21, 2017)

Redfish said:


> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Have you ever stopped to consider why the GOP let the ACA stay intact? They control the government so what's up? Hint: Too many of their poor constituents like it. Repealing Obamacare is political suicide.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 21, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


 RW idiocy.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 21, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



No, it is something you are born with and most people out grow it by 5, you on the other hand didn't.


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## jc456 (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> OP- Silly stuff, for dupes only. Every investment in memory in education, training and job program for blacks has been from Dems....every cut and racist sentiment from the GOP.


hey dupe!


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## Papageorgio (Apr 21, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



you have nothing but fantasy and corruption. The liver damage is bad, so sorry.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 21, 2017)

JQPublic1 said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > JQPublic1 said:
> ...


You are the CEO of nothing! You are as clueless as Dan.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



No it is what is real, I would rather give to charity than the US government, the government wastes the money. 

you just want to feel like paying your taxes is enough and I am sure you are above the age to pay taxes, so that is why you want the increase, so others have to pay, instead of you. Selfish bastard.


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## jc456 (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


and it's done by them all the time.  your point?


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## jc456 (Apr 21, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...


he's the CEO of the poor?  funny shit my man.


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## jc456 (Apr 21, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


dude, did you really just write this?  holy fk!!!!! hahahahahaahahahahahaha....


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



*If they vote Dem, they want their own taxes raised to help the poor and the nonrich.*

Warren Buffet wants to pay more taxes, structures his finances to minimize his tax payments.
Why does he hate the poor?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2017)

JQPublic1 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > JQPublic1 said:
> ...



They couldn't agree what to replace  it with.  Some thought it was  ill advised to just kill it and let the government  dependents hang.  

But they are working on the plan again, and this  time it has  more Freedom  Caucus supporters.


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## danielpalos (Apr 21, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


not when I am rubber and You are glue


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## danielpalos (Apr 21, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > JQPublic1 said:
> ...


That is Your drug war, right winger.


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## danielpalos (Apr 21, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


no, dear; it is Because the right won't end the drug war and our Debt, keeps increasing.


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## ScienceRocks (Apr 21, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




They don't have a foot to stand on with their small government shitstick while arguing for police to kick your door down for a leaf.

period....


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2017)

JQPublic1 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



How do conservatives take from the needy when the needy doesn't  have anything  of their own?  

Raise minimum wage, and you encourage more businesses to invest in  automation.  Raise minimum  wage, employers cut jobs.  Why do  you suppose many jobs left the country or were replaced with automation?  That's right, because American labor is too expensive.  So how will making it more  expensive help?  

You don't know what the conservatives have in mind for healthcare, so until it comes out, your statement is ridiculous.


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...





"Commerce Clause! Drug war! Commerce Clause! Drug war! Commerce Clause! Drug war! Squawk! Polly want a cracker! Squawk!"


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> I only pay the taxes I am legally obligated to pay.



Yes, I know.........none.


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## danielpalos (Apr 21, 2017)

Unkotare said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


don't like being legal to the law; why blame less fortunate illegals, right wingers; hating on the poor, General Operating Procedure?


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## danielpalos (Apr 21, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > I only pay the taxes I am legally obligated to pay.
> ...


Don't blame me for being better at tax avoidance, than Mr. Trump.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Yes, working peoples money.  We are forced to  give it to the  non-working  people.  But that doesn't  mean it's their money.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...



Right, I'm sure that's what they are doing: looking for  jobs.  Just like the phone was supposed to be to get in  contact with employers.  

If I ever wanted to try and sell a bridge to somebody, I would make sure it's a liberal, because  you people will believe any line of bullshit.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



You know  what else works for poverty?  Work.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Yes, Trump wasn't clever enough to stay home, not work, and collect government  goodies.


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...






?????


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## Papageorgio (Apr 21, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



That is what I expect from a person with no clue and no cause.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 21, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Another fantasy, I have no war on drugs, I don't care if you shoot up and OD, that is your business not mine, at least that explains all your empty posts.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 21, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Obama could end the war, he did not, he is the right.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 21, 2017)

Matthew said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


LOL! Are you a nut job!


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 21, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



That is why they are so clueless, take money from people who don't have any! LOL!


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 21, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



The hate of the poor blacks is nothing you defend. All you try to do is divert, it is all you have.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 21, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Irrelevant.  Congress is delegated the Social Power to Tax, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 21, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


lol.  like a capital gains preference is suppose to solve for simple poverty through Jobs Booms.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 21, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


sounds like class envy; don't hate the poor for it.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 21, 2017)

Unkotare said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


.....


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 21, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


why whine about the cost of social services instead of the drug war?


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 21, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > OP- Silly stuff, for dupes only. Every investment in memory in education, training and job program for blacks has been from Dems....every cut and racist sentiment from the GOP.
> ...


Any argument at all? lol


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 21, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...


Of course he does. Fix the system. Misery loves company...of course Dems want scunbag Pubs included.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 21, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


They're selfish dupes, as always. Pretty obvious to the rest of the world.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 21, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > JQPublic1 said:
> ...


It's been MANY years since  Dems even considered taxing the nonrich any more- at least the 35 years Reaganism has been slowly ruining them and pandering to the rich...


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 21, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Damn hard to find in the typical corrupt GOP economic bubble/bust meltdown....see 1929, S+L, 2008 etc...just about anytime they have 8 years...


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 21, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Blocked by the GOP duh, now trying to roll back pot reform...


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 21, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Yet you vote for the hard liner fascists...


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 21, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Always demonizing the poor, dupe...and making it harder for them to find jobs...Great job! Every body wants a good job, dupe. Way to make it as hard as possible AND cut cheap training and college.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Always demonizing the poor, dupe...and making it harder for them to find jobs.


actually Democrats  do that by inviting in 30 million illegals to take their jobs and bid down wages for those jobs remaining. And then of course there are huge Democratic taxes and regulations that drove another 20 million jobs off shore!!

And lets never forget the liberal culture  war on families children schools and religions which render  millions unfit for work! See what you don't learn  when you drop out?


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 21, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Always demonizing the poor, dupe...and making it harder for them to find jobs.
> ...


A) 12 million invited in by GOP refusal of unfakable SS ID card. They love cheap easily bullied labor, dupe.
B) BS- Always demonizing the poor, dupe...and making it harder for them to find jobs...Great job! Every body wants a good job, dupe. Way to make it as hard as possible AND cut cheap training and college.


----------



## Thinker101 (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Imagine that, how about we enforce the current laws before spending boat loads of money to create "unfakable"  SS ID cards.  Besides it would probably take about 2 weeks before they become fake able, or before dems start pissing and moaning about how unfair it is to require ID cards.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 21, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


Dems are ALWAYS for it, and a helluva lot cheaper than a useless wall. Of course they also want to legalize the worthy ones here now- See 2010 Dem Immigration bill- fair and smart, best you'll get...


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Never forget, Democrats are always treasonously soft on immigration because they see how successful it was in turning CA in a permanent blue state. What could be better for Democrats than millions of poor people flooding across the border looking for welfare!!


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 21, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...


Sorry about REALITY, dupe. The 2010 Bill would have ended this mess...ENDED illegals coming in- and no, illegals don't vote.


----------



## Thinker101 (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Apparently illegals and democrats disagree with your statement.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Right, it's like when they hid Global Warming behind Climate Change.  All the  "Dem" bill was was Amnesty.  It wouldn't have done anything except create more Democrat  voters which is all they want in  the first place.   All it really showed  us is how Democrats would sell out their own  country for power.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Yeah, it's the Republicans that want  the  poor to stay unemployed, but the Libs are the ones inviting illegals here to take jobs that the  poor could have.  

And no,  not everybody wants a job.  Many want to loaf on government programs.


----------



## Thinker101 (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



They want to legalize the worthy ones???  WTF is that....why do they let all the unworthy ones in?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Plenty of jobs around--not  enough takers.  The Democrats have them in their suburban HUD homes, on their Obama phone, with a generous SNAP's card, and using Obama Care.  Why work?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



*Of course he does.*

Because he's a hypocrite. Typical liberal.

*Fix the system. Misery loves company*

If he wants to fix it, giving his billions to the Federal government is a good start.
I agree, many of his fellow liberals are also miserable.

*of course Dems want scunbag Pubs included.*

He's not pro-choice?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I don't.   I hate Democrats for it.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



You don't  need a jobs boom.  Besides, I thought  that's what Obama gave us????

Plenty  of jobs out there now.  All they have to do is apply and go to work.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Well let's hope this administration cuts the general welfare to the bone, and forces these  people to take  care of themselves, and let us working  people keep more of our money instead of having to give it to lowlifes.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > JQPublic1 said:
> ...



When you are brainwashed to say certain things, you don't  stop to think about what you are saying.  So these libs just repeat what they are told  to repeat.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 21, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



The left whines about keeping power and hate the poor blacks.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



The Democrats need to take responsibility instead of blaming others, sad group, they are so helpless and victims! Boohoo!


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



True, we have all these great minimum wage jobs created in the last few years.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



No he wasn't, his administration went after pot smokers hard, please spare us you poor victim BS.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I didn't vote for a hard liner fascists, I wouldn't vote for Hillary or Trump.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 21, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


why do the rich need capital gains preference if the poor don't need a Jobs Boom?

U6 is a truer market indicator.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 21, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


we don't have a common offense clause nor a general warfare clause; let's cut spending for the common defense, to "the bone".


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 21, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


no, we don't.  the right hates the poor, and loves to deny and disparage them steak and lobster, on their EBT cards.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 21, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


Only in dupeworld. Ilegals have enough problems w/o trying to vote. Such a dumb idea...


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 21, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


If they're on welfare, they have to apply and prove it. Being on welfare is a job unless you're disabled. Min wage jobs are a joke...Thanks GOP


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



If they are on welfare, they have to prove it?  Prove what???? 

How is being on  welfare a job?  Thanks Commies.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



The defense of this country is  an obligation of our representatives; giving  people  free shit is not.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



U6 only tells us the true unemployment  rate--not how many people  are not taking available  jobs.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Thank Obama's economy for the low wage jobs! Thanks Obama, all hail the low paying jobs Obama gave us.


----------



## JQPublic1 (Apr 21, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


 There will be no repeal. Its political suicide to do so!


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 21, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...




Never forget, Democrats are always treasonously soft on immigration because they see how successful it was in turning CA in a permanent blue state. What could be better for Democrats than millions of poor people flooding across the border looking for welfare! ![/QUOTE]


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2017)

JQPublic1 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > JQPublic1 said:
> ...



How do you figure?  

According to the DumBama  White  House,  they created 20 million  more new government dependents.  20 million  more in a country of 315 million people.  

Many others (including myself) got screwed because DumBama gave reasonable  healthcare  to Democrat constituents at the  expense of likely Republican voters. 

I think there are  more of us than more  of them, and making us happy about the change outweighs the liberal  losers even if it boiled down to them  losing  their  healthcare.  

If they do something so I can get my coverage  back, guess what?  I could care less if all of them lost theirs. After all, they had no concern about people like us when they got coverage paid by us.


----------



## JQPublic1 (Apr 21, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


The needy have Obamacare for one thing and the GOP wants to take it away. The working poor do some of the most dangerous jobs but the GOP wants to tone down safety requirements. Most egregious of all is the exploitation of poor kids who see hope in joining the military for a better future...only to be used as canon fodder  when capitalists deem it necessary to start a war somewhere to protect their investments. Moreover, war is profitable... war doubles annual profits at the expense of the poor soldier looking for a better life.

Key findings include:


Increasing the federal minimum wage would raise the wages of about 28 million workers, who would receive nearly $40 billion in additional wages over the phase-in period.2
*Across the phase-in period of the minimum-wage increase, GDP would increase by roughly $25 billion, resulting in the creation of approximately 100,000 net new jobs over that period.*
Those who would see wage increases do not fit some of the stereotypes of minimum-wage workers.
Women would be disproportionately affected, comprising nearly 55 percent of those who would benefit.
Nearly 88 percent of workers who would benefit are at least 20 years old.
*Although workers of all races and ethnicities would benefit from the increase, non-Hispanic white workers comprise the largest share (about 56 percent) of those who would be affected.*
About 42 percent of affected workers have at least some college education.
Around 54 percent of affected workers work full time, over 70 percent are in families with incomes of less than $60,000, more than a quarter are parents, and over a third are married.
The average affected worker earns about half of his or her family’s total income.

How raising the federal minimum wage would help working families and give the economy a boost


----------



## JQPublic1 (Apr 21, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


 DO you want to go back to the days of "pre-existing conditions"and  "drop 'em when they get sick" no matter how much they paid  for the premiums?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2017)

JQPublic1 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > JQPublic1 said:
> ...



You have to be completely brainwashed or completely stupid  to believe that any politician  gives a shit whether you (or the poor) have healthcare or not.  This was  not about getting  everybody covered, it was about creating as many government dependents as they could.   The more government  dependents, the more likely Democrat voters.  

As for minimum wage: those workers are only 3%  of our workforce, hardly any percentage large enough  to create  any positive effect on the economy or poverty.  Considering most of those workers are kids  in school, stay at home  moms  working  for extra  money while their kids are in  school, or senior citizens looking  to get out of the  house, raising minimum wage would only encourage employers to invest in automation to replace them as McDonald's and  Wendy's are currently  doing.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2017)

JQPublic1 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > JQPublic1 said:
> ...



I  would  love to, because I've been an  insulin  dependent  diabetic for the last  30 years, and until Commie Care became the law  of the  land,  I was covered  with my preexisting condition  my entire adult life.


----------



## JQPublic1 (Apr 21, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



The politicians care about staying in office. I haven't suggested they are concerned about anything else.  Threatening  to fire them via the vote is the only leverage we have to  get them to do what we want. Obviously that tactic worked... we still have Obamacare.

You seem  to be completely delusional and selectively ignorant. Even when I put data right in front of you it is ignored and you ramble on.
 I said:
*"Across the phase-in period of the minimum-wage increase, GDP would increase by roughly $25 billion, resulting in the creation of approximately 100,000 net new jobs over that period."*

You looked at that and  wrote:
*
"As for minimum wage: those workers are only 3%  of our workforce, hardly any percentage large enough  to create  any positive effect on the economy or poverty. "




Ray From Cleveland said:





JQPublic1 said:





Ray From Cleveland said:





JQPublic1 said:





Ray From Cleveland said:





JQPublic1 said:



			Have you ever stopped to consider why the GOP let the ACA stay intact? They control the government so what's up? Hint: Too many of their poor constituents like it. Repealing Obamacare is political suicide.
		
Click to expand...


They couldn't agree what to replace  it with.  Some thought it was  ill advised to just kill it and let the government  dependents hang.

But they are working on the plan again, and this  time it has  more Freedom  Caucus supporters.
		
Click to expand...

 There will be no repeal. Its political suicide to do so!
		
Click to expand...


How do you figure?

According to the DumBama  White  House,  they created 20 million  more new government dependents.  20 million  more in a country of 315 million people.

Many others (including myself) got screwed because DumBama gave reasonable  healthcare  to Democrat constituents at the  expense of likely Republican voters.

I think there are  more of us than more  of them, and making us happy about the change outweighs the liberal  losers even if it boiled down to them  losing  their  healthcare.

If they do something so I can get my coverage  back, guess what?  I could care less if all of them lost theirs. After all, they had no concern about people like us when they got coverage paid by us.
		
Click to expand...

 DO you want to go back to the days of "pre-existing conditions"and  "drop 'em when they get sick" no matter how much they paid  for the premiums?
		
Click to expand...


I  would  love to, because I've been an  insulin  dependent  diabetic for the last  30 years, and until Commie Care became the law  of the  land,  I was covered  with my preexisting condition  my entire adult life.
		
Click to expand...

*
You were one of the lucky ones. But the world does not revolve around YOU. Other folks had  horrific experiences before  Obamacare.


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## francoHFW (Apr 21, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
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They have to apply for 10 jobs/week and prove it, and work at min wage for benefits usually, unless they're disable. No picnic. They want a real job. You live in a dream world.


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## francoHFW (Apr 22, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> JQPublic1 said:
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Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
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It's just a continuation of 35 years of Reaganism and the W meltdown...Obama passed 1 thing, ACA.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 22, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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Not 10, you are lying. Three jobs and all they have to do is pick up a phone, call a business and ask if they are hiring, make a note of the time and date they called. Do that three times and they are eligible.


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## francoHFW (Apr 22, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


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That's the way it is here. Me lie? I don't think so. Maybe because it's a rural GOP area....


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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If they are disabled, then they go on  disability, not welfare.  

If they want to work a real job, send them our way. We need tens of thousands of drivers that industry can't find.  Some companies will  not only  provide free training, but pay you while  you learn.


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## Redfish (Apr 22, 2017)

JQPublic1 said:


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Yes, those getting it free like it.   Those paying hate it.   Who do you think represents the most GOP votes?   Hint: not the ones getting it free.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2017)

JQPublic1 said:


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Maybe there's something you didn't know, and  that is we are a country of 315 million  people.  Even if your hand picked estimates were true, WTF is 100,000 jobs in that time?  Hell, nearly 300,000 jobs were created  in February alone without minimum wage increases.  

The Republican  led Congress ran on getting rid of Commie Care since they took leadership.  Since that time, the Republicans  have gained  more momentum every  year.  So they're not worried about 20 million people--most of whom are on government programs anyway.  We have less of a percentage of people with  private  healthcare today than we did in 2008.


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## Redfish (Apr 22, 2017)

JQPublic1 said:


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your last sentence is a blatant lie. NO one was denied medical care before ACA.  NO ONE, even those in our country illegally.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 22, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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You have been caught lying several times and then you change the subject. 10 jobs they have to apply? Then they wouldn't be unemployed in this market for long, so I think you are way off.


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## Markle (Apr 22, 2017)

JQPublic1 said:


> You were one of the lucky ones. But the world does not revolve around YOU. Other folks had horrific experiences before Obamacare.



What about the millions of folks having horrific experiences WITH Obamacare?  No choice of companies, skyrocketing prices, and $5,000 to $10,000 deductibles making the insurance totally unusable?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2017)

Markle said:


> JQPublic1 said:
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> > You were one of the lucky ones. But the world does not revolve around YOU. Other folks had horrific experiences before Obamacare.
> ...



You hit the nail on the head.  I applied  for Commie Care, and  that's exactly what they offer. 

To keep my medical  facility and doctor, they wanted over 20% of my net pay.  The policy had a $7,000 deductible and a $7,000 out of pocket.  No dental, no eye care, and a $50.00 copay for office visits.  

For anything  close to  what I could use, they wanted over half of my net pay.  WTF can live on half their income if they are a regular blue collar worker?  

The good  thing is the guy that  makes  my french fries has coverage.   But french fry makers are Democrat voters, so of course they rigged it so they could  afford subsidized healthcare insurance.


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## francoHFW (Apr 22, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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They can be disabled temporarily, or waiting for SS disability. You don't see those paid training programs anymore. Wonder why, dupe...35 years of pander to the rich Reaganism, maybe?


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## francoHFW (Apr 22, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


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Like most people, like you, I don't lie but may be mistaken, hater dupe. But I'm not. And you are usually baffled by New BS GOP BS. The little bits of misinformation add up to your hate of the poor. A lot have disqualifying history, crime, drug history, bad employment history not their fault. Dems have tried to make those less so. Blacks have been hurt the most. 1 out of 6 are disqualified though they've been punished and are reformed. HR computers don't care.


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## francoHFW (Apr 22, 2017)

Redfish said:


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ACTUALLY, dupe, rural poor are helped more than anyone. GOP poor. Even with GOP states mindlessly holding out. 

The problem with ACA is the COST after decades of the bought off GOP letting costs run wild. FIX THE COSTS. Going back to scam policies and suffering  is not the answer, chump.


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## francoHFW (Apr 22, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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Now you're covered for catastrophe, so you don't lose your real estate empire- the way insurance was going anyway. FIX THE COSTS. At last we have a way of doing so.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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I'm not covered at all, that's the problem.  

Without DumBama  and  the  Democrats,  I  would  still likely have  coverage today.  But this  scheme was designed to give  lowlifes insurance that they could afford at a cost to  working middle-class people.  Lowlifes  vote Democrat--productive working people likely vote Republican.


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## francoHFW (Apr 22, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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The point duh is no job loss, as you're duped.

ACA keeps poor workers off welfare to get care. Which you already paid for anyway, just in the stupidest way possible.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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Sure they do,  transportation companies offer free  training all the time.  Need me to go to  Craigs List and  pull a couple  out to post  here?


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## francoHFW (Apr 22, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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It's your dupe boss to blame. And I'm sorry. Won't he have to do it soon under ACA? Or FIX IT. It was just a framework to use forever- The GOP plan. And needs a little time to work.

There is no difference in standing between white Dems and GOPers- Yes, blacks are feqed. And rural GOPers have been helped more than anyone by ACA.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 22, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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I interview everyone. I hate computers sifting through the apps, I want the communication with real people. Computers are terrible for sifting out potential candidates.


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## francoHFW (Apr 22, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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What's the catch? Always seem to be one...


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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Some make you sign a year contract to work with them, some  two years, but hey, you're guaranteed a job, plus after  your contract is up, you can work anywhere in the  country, make your  own  schedule, and  have a well paying  job.


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## francoHFW (Apr 22, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


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Good man. But an exception.


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## francoHFW (Apr 22, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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*Obama's Health Law: Who Was Helped Most - The New York Times*
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/.../obamacare-who-was-helped-most.html
Oct 29, 2014 - Rural areas have fallen further behind larger metropolitan areas. Women are the one modest exception. They have benefited more from Obamacare than men, and they ... who was helped most by the passage of the Affordable Care Act. ... insurance gains does not mean that only Republicans signed up; ...
*PressReader - Los Angeles Times: 2017-03-12 - Obamacare ...*
PressReader.com - Connecting People Through News
Mar 12, 2017 - Obamacare replacement hits Trump voters hard ... in conservative, rural parts of the country — stand to lose the most in ... In nearly 1,500 counties nationwide, such a person stands to lose more than$6,000 a ... But many of the areas where Trump won big have been helped most by Obamacare's system of ...
*Obamacare Repeal Threatens Rural Hospitals and the Trump Voters ...*
www.newsweek.com/obamacare-repeal-threatens-rural-hospitals-and-trump-voters-w...
Jan 4, 2017 - Obamacare Repeal Threatens Rural Hospitals and the Trump ... “This hospital, all my life, has been here,” says Keller, now retired. ... In the past six years, more than 70 such facilities have closed, citing ... While the passage of Obamacare was described as historic, many here do not think it helped them.
*Donald Trump's Betrayal of the White Working Class - The Atlantic*
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/trump-healthcare.../508325/
Nov 22, 2016 - Simply Repealing Obamacare Will Hurt the White Working Class ... its passage, Republicanswill have what they need to repeal the Affordable Care Act. ... Trump has been widely credited for tapping the economic anxiety of many white .... discovers is way more complicated than “anyone” ever imagined?
*As Republicans And Democrats Argue Over Obamacare Repeal - NPR*
www.npr.org/.../fact-check-once-again-lawmakers-are-stretching-the-facts-of-obamacare
Jan 4, 2017 - Lots of facts have been thrown around as the new GOP Congress takes steps ... Obamacareis also actually cheaper on average than the typical employer-provided plan. ... Most people buying insurance on the exchanges receive a ... Schumer also suggested that repealing Obamacare would hurtrural ...


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## francoHFW (Apr 22, 2017)

Redfish said:


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Yup, 500k bankruptcies WITH good (scam) insurance, 45k deaths with no insurance, choosing assets over life, many cutoffs, 17+% of GDP and no end in sight etc etc etc. Great job!!


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## francoHFW (Apr 22, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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I never saw one in 3 years of looking 2006-9.


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## francoHFW (Apr 22, 2017)

Markle said:


> JQPublic1 said:
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> > You were one of the lucky ones. But the world does not revolve around YOU. Other folks had horrific experiences before Obamacare.
> ...


GOP/crony sabotage and ridiculous costs make it difficult. It needs time to work- GOP plan.


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## francoHFW (Apr 22, 2017)

OP- STILL absolute balogna- After 35 years of the GOP blocking and cutting Dem programs to help the poor and middle class rise, and pandering in every way to the greedy idiot rich and giant corps, we have to listen to this conspiraceeee!!! BS, dupes? *After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?*


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## Papageorgio (Apr 22, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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It should be the rule when you are hiring humans.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 22, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> OP- STILL absolute balogna- After 35 years of the GOP blocking and cutting Dem programs to help the poor and middle class rise, and pandering in every way to the greedy idiot rich and giant corps, we have to listen to this conspiraceeee!!! BS, dupes? *After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?*



China just switched to Republican capitalism
and instantly eliminated 40% of the entire planets poverty. East/West Germany?


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## francoHFW (Apr 22, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


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Dems are working on it...


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## JQPublic1 (Apr 22, 2017)

Redfish said:


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You might want to rethink that.


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## JQPublic1 (Apr 22, 2017)

Redfish said:


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Note the date:

July 2, 2008 8:22:53 AM PDT
Eyewitness News
KINGS COUNTY --
New York City hospital officials promised reforms at a Brooklyn psychiatric ward where surveillance footage captured a woman falling from her chair, writhing on the floor and dying as workers watched without helping for an hour. *Esmin Green, 49, had been waiting in the emergency room at the city-owned Kings County Hospital Center for nearly 24 hours when she toppled from her seat at 5:32 a.m. on June 19, falling face down on the floor.

*


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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Maybe you should have looked harder:  

* No CDL? No problem! Get CDL Training + Truck Driving Job Here *

C.R. England

Swift Transportation CDL School

Driver No CDL No Problem Will Train Jobs, Employment | Indeed.com


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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Don't have time to go through all of them, so I selected your very  own  NYT article, and  here is their conclusion which I'm  sure  you didn't  read: 

_*People with the lowest incomes tended to benefit the most from the law. That makes sense, given how the Affordable Care Act is designed. In states that expanded Medicaid, low-income people can get insurance without having to pay a premium. And for middle-income people who qualify for tax credits to help them buy insurance, the subsidies are most generous for those lowest on the income scale. Poorer people were always the least likely to have insurance because their jobs rarely offered it and private premiums were often unaffordable.
*_
So my conclusions  was correct:  Commie Care was designed to  help  likely Democrat  voters at the cost to middle-class voters like myself who either pay out the ass, or simply can't afford Commie Care plans.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 22, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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No they aren't. Look at Starbucks, Costco, Microsoft and other liberal companies, they are the worst. Starbucks has you take a personality test as part as of the hiring process, disgusting.


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## danielpalos (Apr 22, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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so is the General welfare.  if it can be done for the Common defense it can be done for the General welfare.


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## JQPublic1 (Apr 22, 2017)

Markle said:


> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> > You were one of the lucky ones. But the world does not revolve around YOU. Other folks had horrific experiences before Obamacare.
> ...


Most middle class Americans get their insurance through group plans  provided by their employers. They did not see such their premiums rise  more than normal on an annual basis. If you are one of the 3% that saw astronomical rises in your premiums it was because  of this:  Just before  the PPACA was  activated  in 2013 you weren't part of a group plan and you got caught up the race to raise premiums as high as possible  before rules limiting how much could be charged under  Obamacare could be enacted. Greedy bahs-turds like Trump are the culprits not the PPACA.


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## francoHFW (Apr 23, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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White GOP voters are just as poor as white Dem voters, dupe.Even poorer, actually. Ignorant racists are poor....


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## francoHFW (Apr 23, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


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Dem POLITICIANS. Liberal companies my ass- just because they pay and have day care or what? LOL


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## Papageorgio (Apr 23, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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Liberal politicians will,do nothing! They didn't stop it from happening, you will see them give lip service to the problem but just as with other issues, they will do nothing, just as they have not helped the blacks get out of property.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 23, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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Really?  Then why does every city with many low income areas vote almost exclusively Democrat?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 23, 2017)

danielpalos said:


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Again, welfare back then was not defined as giving people free stuff as it is today.  _*Promoting*_ the General Welfare and _*Funding*_ the General Welfare are two totally different thing.  Nowhere in the US Constitution  will you find _*Funding*_ the General Welfare.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 23, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
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Liberals own the entire computer industry since Apple too is a liberal company.

I had to make a delivery to an industrial site at Progressive Insurance.  I went all the way to the back to meet the foreman of the construction crew to see  how he wanted to do it.   They had a race track setup in the back surrounded by trees and flowers.

So I asked him what that track was all about?  He said it was a "Stress Track" as he  laughed.  A  stress track I asked, WTF is that?

Any employee that believes they are too stressed out from  work simply goes to their supervisor and advises them they are going to the stress track.  They allow family and friends of employees to meet them at the stress track, and some even bring their bicycles and roller blades.

Since he was out there everyday, I asked him how stressed these employees are.  He said he never seen so many stressed out people in his life as we both burst out in laughter.

I'm willing to bet you don't have many conservative companies with a stress track.


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## Mr Natural (Apr 23, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Really? Then why does every city with many low income areas vote almost exclusively Democrat?




Because they know that at least with the Dems they've got a shot at a decent life.

The republicans would just as soon they up and die.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 23, 2017)

Mr Clean said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Really? Then why does every city with many low income areas vote almost exclusively Democrat?
> ...



Do they have a decent life now?  

Maybe it's because they  know the Republicans might make them work for what they have instead of it being delivered to their mailbox every month.


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## Mr Natural (Apr 23, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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Yeah, nice theory.

Too bad real life doesn't work that way.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 23, 2017)

Mr Clean said:


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It does work that way unfortunately.  Trust me, I take note at what goes on next door to me at the HUD house.


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## Redfish (Apr 23, 2017)

Mr Clean said:


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sorry, but it does.   the liberal fantasy exists only in your small minds.


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## Redfish (Apr 23, 2017)

JQPublic1 said:


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that could have happened whether the person was insured or not.   Overcrowded ERs have nothing to do with socialized medicine,   except that under socialized medicine all medical care will look like that ER.


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## danielpalos (Apr 23, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage in big cities, instead of lower taxes for the rich?


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## danielpalos (Apr 23, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


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Again, the welfare clause is General, not Common.  Any more questions?

_Providing_ for the general welfare and common defense, means just that.


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## Mr Natural (Apr 23, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Maybe it's because they know the Republicans might make them work for what they have instead of it being delivered to their mailbox every month.




When did republicans ever make them go to work?

And what are they capable of doing?  They have no skills, no education, no work ethic.  Cut off their government checks and many will turn to crime.  Is that what you want?


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## danielpalos (Apr 23, 2017)

Mr Clean said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe it's because they know the Republicans might make them work for what they have instead of it being delivered to their mailbox every month.
> ...


For-profit prisons is a capital, right wing solution.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 23, 2017)

Mr Clean said:


> When did republicans ever make them go to work?



It was called the Welfare Reform act.  



Mr Clean said:


> And what are they capable of doing? They have no skills, no education, no work ethic. Cut off their government checks and many will turn to crime. Is that what you want?



That's exactly what they predicted after the Welfare Reform act passed.  It turned out quite the opposite.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 23, 2017)

danielpalos said:


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I think we posted about a dozen or  so  links explaining  it to you, but  you refuse to learn  anything.


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## Mr Natural (Apr 23, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
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> > When did republicans ever make them go to work?
> ...



Well then, if that's the case then the problem has been solved.

Yay republicans!


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## danielpalos (Apr 23, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
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> > When did republicans ever make them go to work?
> ...


Just poor legislative lifestyle choices from our Congress?  

We have a federal doctrine in American (US) law, regarding the legal concept of employment at will.


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## danielpalos (Apr 23, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
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I am citing our Constitution, not right wing fantasy.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 23, 2017)

Mr Clean said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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> > Really? Then why does every city with many low income areas vote almost exclusively Democrat?
> ...



What an ignorant bunch of BS!


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## Mr Natural (Apr 23, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> What an ignorant bunch of BS!




What's your solution, have them get jobs?

Fat chance.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 23, 2017)

Mr Clean said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > What an ignorant bunch of BS!
> ...



What are Dems solutions? They have done nothing in the last 50 years for the the, other than bribe for votes by dangling carrots and then giving them a way to stay poor and continue to vote Democratic. The Democrats hate the poor but they want the vote. The Democratic Party is scum for doing that. They have no concern for the poor without the vote. We saw that this last election cycle. The poor were ridiculed by the Democrats for not voting for Clinton, the Democrats are nothing but liars, cheats and scum.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 23, 2017)

danielpalos said:


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You can say the words, but if you don't know what the words mean,  what's the point?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 23, 2017)

danielpalos said:


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You keep repeating the same shit over and over again. I told you, nobody is forced to work in this country.  There is no doctrine that says you are owed payments for not working.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 23, 2017)

Mr Clean said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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You can't solve a problem that large entirely.  You can to things to make it better though, and that's what happened after Welfare Reform was enacted.  Certainly no out of control crime going on, that's  for sure.  In fact, that was around the time our violent and gun crime rate began to decrease.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 23, 2017)

Dems have nothing but blame! They can't refute that the hate poor blacks and want them permanently on welfare.


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## regent (Apr 23, 2017)

Welfare for the poor began when the nation began.


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## regent (Apr 23, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?


So the Republicans are in power now why don't they eliminate that permanent dependent underclass of voters by making them independent?


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## Papageorgio (Apr 23, 2017)

regent said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?
> ...



Why do you change the subject when the topic of the thread is about Democrats wanting blacks permanently on welfare? Obama and Clinton didn't do a damn thing for the poor blacks to help a situation in fact Obama made it even tougher for blacks to get off welfare. 

Democrats bribe the blacks for the poor vote, Republicans do not.


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## regent (Apr 23, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
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Well how about this: Republicans bribe the wealthy for their money vote; Democrats do not.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 23, 2017)

regent said:


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> > regent said:
> ...



Yes they do, we saw that when Obama had to pay back after the election, the Democrats love the rich, really no difference in the two party's there. 

Why can't you refute that thread topic and continue to divert the thread?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 23, 2017)

regent said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?
> ...



And just how would they do that?


----------



## regent (Apr 23, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


I would suggest the Republican party get rid of Trump and stop trying to create conditions for the rich to get richer. The Republicans might try to make America a nation that no one goes hungry and all can pursue happiness.


----------



## JQPublic1 (Apr 23, 2017)

Redfish said:


> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


You said no one was ever denied medical care before ACA. Well, the video shows you were wrong and that I wasn't lying. But to be accurate, the woman was  refused treatment because she was likely percieved as not having medical care insurance. Insurance Triage was at work there and it cost that woman her life. No one should have to wait 24hrs in an ER before being seen.
Socialized medicine? Are you seriously thinking the ppaca is socialized medicine? If you do, you don't know the meaning of the term. The term *subsidized Insurance* might be as close as you could get to a definition of something being socialized and has nothing to do with the delivery of medical treatment. Under the auspices of the ppaca, all of the health providers,  a.k.a., insurance companies are privately owned.  Most of the hospitals involved are private too, as are private practices.
The exceptions are medical facilities owned operated and staffed by state and local governments. However, profit is the driving force behind all of them.none are socialist institutions.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 23, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Our gov't is perfect for obstruction of reform- all the New BS GOP wants. Great job! That's why I like the end of the fiibuster.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 23, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Those are blacks areas, and they know which party is full of racists.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 23, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Those are blacks areas, and they know which party is full of racists.


the party that has crippled and addicted them with welfare for several generations and whose solution in even more crippling welfare and hip-hop culture!!


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 23, 2017)

JQPublic1 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > JQPublic1 said:
> ...



totally 100% stupid and liberal of course. Govt is massively involved in heath care so it is socialist, hugely inefficient, and 5 times more costly than it should be. Capitalism would mean people shopping carefully with their own money, published prices,  and providers competing on basis of price and quality. Do you understand??


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 23, 2017)

regent said:


> The Republicans might try to make America a nation that no one goes hungry and all can pursue happiness.



China just switched to Republican capitalism and instantly eliminated 40% of the entire planets poverty after 60 million went so hungry they slowly died. Do you want to be stupid and liberal or do you really want to eliminate hunger?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 23, 2017)

regent said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > regent said:
> ...



What was the  last administration   that  made  the rich  the richest?  That's  right, it was the Obama  administration. 

Why didn't they become Independents before Trump if that's what you believe?  And who is going  hungry today that wasn't hungry five months ago?  

As long as Democrat voters keep buying all the lies of the  left, there is nothing the Republicans can do to make liberals Independents.   The Democrats lie, their MSM promotes the lies, and people believe what they are told to believe.


----------



## regent (Apr 23, 2017)

As long as it takes money, oodles of money, to run for political office, the rich will have the biggest say in American politics.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 23, 2017)

regent said:


> As long as it takes money, oodles of money, to run for political office, the rich will have the biggest say in American politics.



makes good liberal sense of course since Clinton raised $1.2 billion and Trump a tiny fraction of that.


----------



## Doc1 (Apr 23, 2017)

Actually ,  Democrats hate anyone they cannot control.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 23, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Those are blacks areas, and they know which party is full of racists.
> ...


BS, give them the money for training or college and they all do it, Pub dupe.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 23, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



BS, just because you are given money for education will do it. Many programs have proved time and time again that you are wrong in your assumption.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 23, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



What's wrong with  them using their own money?


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 23, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


They don't have any duh...ay caramba.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 23, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Many people  don't. That's why they take out school loans.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 23, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


No credit either.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 23, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



There are accommodations for people with no credit when it comes to school loans. After all, didn't DumBama solve school loan problems when  he had the federal government take over them from the banks?????? Or is that  Reagan's  fault too?


----------



## P@triot (Apr 23, 2017)




----------



## francoHFW (Apr 23, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Hell no, dupes. It's a huge gd GOP mess to this day. We'll see if Andrew Cuomo's free state U's do the job, Thank God I live there while the rest of the country goes to hell under greedy a-holes, haters, and silly dupes...


----------



## Markle (Apr 24, 2017)

Mr Clean said:


> When did republicans ever make them go to work?



Please review the 1996 Welfare Reform Act passed by Newt Gingrich, vetoed by President Bill Clinton twice before signing it a third time.  By then  Newt Gingrich had the votes to override his veto.


----------



## Markle (Apr 24, 2017)

Mr Clean said:


> What's your solution, have them get jobs?
> 
> Fat chance.


----------



## Markle (Apr 24, 2017)

regent said:


> I would suggest the Republican party get rid of Trump and stop trying to create conditions for the rich to get richer. The Republicans might try to make America a nation that no one goes hungry and all can pursue happiness.



You mean shared misery.  Got it!


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Markle said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > I would suggest the Republican party get rid of Trump and stop trying to create conditions for the rich to get richer. The Republicans might try to make America a nation that no one goes hungry and all can pursue happiness.
> ...


Every other modern country is able to do it, dupe. And they have plenty of rich too...The greedy idiot New BS GOP is wrecking the middle class, a big mistake.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

P@triot said:


>


Stupid bs from him as always...


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 24, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


 Total nonsense of course problem black people have is if they've been given too much money and too much free training The idea that more welfare is going to give them a work ethic rather than continue to destroy it is stupid and liberal. In the 1950s black teen unemployment was lower than white teen unemployment. today the situation is far reversed because of liberals Crushing the soul out of black people with their obscene attempts to help.wanting our Democratic ghetto plantations to be even more democratic is one part stupid one part liberal and one part racist


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 24, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > regent said:
> ...


 Actually it is liberals who shipped 20 million middle-class jobs offshore with the highest corporate taxes in the world and huge regulation of business. And this is not to mention this successful liberal attack On our families schools and religion that has rendered many Americans unfit for middle-class work


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


nothing but repeal, is usually considered fallacy.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Where did any State "make up" laws regarding Infringing upon equal protection of the law, through "hate for the poor"?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Dems have nothing but blame! They can't refute that the hate poor blacks and want them permanently on welfare.


The right wing does that, at every opportunity, and projects onto to the left.  It is why, they have nothing but repeal.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


The rich needed their bailout.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

regent said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > regent said:
> ...


There is not enough, moral of "goodwill toward men", to go around, on the right wing.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 24, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > regent said:
> ...




you mean the rich union bosses who funnel money taken from their members to the dem party?  you have it backwards as usual.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 24, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...




keeping people dependent on government is not "good will".   its slavery.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Those are blacks areas, and they know which party is full of racists.
> ...


equal protection of the law, could solve that problem.  the right wing, doesn't like it, because it may benefit the poor.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > The Republicans might try to make America a nation that no one goes hungry and all can pursue happiness.
> ...


dear, any economy will see gains when switching from a true command economy to a mixed market economy, like ours.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


the right wing even refuses to provide recourse to equal protection of the law for unemployment compensation on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States; simply for the sake of bearing True Witness to our own laws, and for the sake of public morals.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

Markle said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > When did republicans ever make them go to work?
> ...


What happened to laissez-fair, right wingers.  We have, employment at will States.  

The right wing, just likes to, "hate on the poor" by denying and disparaging them, steak and lobster on their EBT cards and equal protection of the law regarding the concept of employment at will, for unemployment compensation purposes.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

Markle said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > What's your solution, have them get jobs?
> ...


The "rich guy" of the right, ran for office to, help himself, on the People's dime.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

Markle said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > I would suggest the Republican party get rid of Trump and stop trying to create conditions for the rich to get richer. The Republicans might try to make America a nation that no one goes hungry and all can pursue happiness.
> ...


Only the right wing, never gets it.  They prefer to make the poor, "work hard" like they used to in the Age of Iron, and potentially even learn how to use, not Only a hammer, but also a sickle.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


The right wing is just clueless and Causeless, in the modern times Age of Corporate Welfare.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


No.  I mean corporate CEOs who merely resorted to the moral turpitude of bearing False Witness to their stockholders, to keep their multimillion dollar bonuses in lucre.  

That is what I mean.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > regent said:
> ...


you don't know what you are talking about under any form of capitalism.  it is restrictions that the right wing is so fond of for Only the poor, that does that.  Laissez-fair, all the way, right wingers.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


the party of no solutions for the poor, blaming the left; i got it.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 24, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...




you keep saying that,  who do you think does not have equal protection under the law?

equal protection does not mean equal income.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 24, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > regent said:
> ...




no one is blaming the poor,   WTF are you talking about?


----------



## Redfish (Apr 24, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




Venezuela has the form of government you want.  Are you happy with what's going on there?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

Mr Clean said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > What an ignorant bunch of BS!
> ...


Should we ask the right wing to start, in Right to Work States?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


equal protection of the law for unemployment compensation, is a simple and market friendly, solution on an at-will basis.  laissez-fair, all the way, right wingers.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 24, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...




explain how mandatory union membership would create jobs.   I can't wait to hear this one.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 24, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...




does anyone understand what this fool is trying to say?   anyone?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


since when are liberals into corporate raiding for lucre?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


Why should we teach the right wing how to fish, when all they ever "bring to market" is nothing but Red Herrings.

We have a federal doctrine and State laws regarding the legal concept of employment at will. 

The poor merely need recourse to equal protection of the law, for unemployment compensation purposes.

It really is that simple, except to the right wing.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


the party of no solutions for the poor, blaming the left; i got it.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


No, they don't.  We have the Best form of Socialism in the Entire World.  They, should be more like us.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Clean said:
> ...


It is about Truth in legislative Advertising.

Persons should be able to get hired in Right to Work States.  Why is there any homelessness in Right to Work States.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Clean said:
> ...


that the right wing is just, clueless and Causeless, like usual.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 24, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




what would constitute "equal protection under the law for unemployment compensation". ? 

you are not making sense.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 24, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




people can get hired in any state.  The economy determines the number of jobs, not unions.

there is homelessness in all states, union and non-union.   You make no sense.   What exactly is it that you want?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 24, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Who is not getting  hired in Right to Work states?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 24, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> The poor merely need recourse to equal protection of the law, for unemployment compensation purposes.



They have it now.  

If a middle-class person loses  their  job through no fault of their own, they get unemployment  compensation. 

If a poor person loses their job, they get unemployment compensation.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 24, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > regent said:
> ...



There is a solution  for the poor, it's called get a job. 

Poverty is the circumstance of having no or little money. 
The  solution to poverty is to get money. 
The way to get money is to find a job and work as many hours as you can. 
The way  to keep money is  don't  spend it on things you don't absolutely have to have.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 24, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



There is no free  anything.  All you can have is giving somebody something and making other  people pay for it.  

http://nypost.com/2016/03/05/new-york-states-debt-is-way-higher-than-announced/


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 24, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Clean said:
> ...



No offense what does equal protection of the law have to do with unemployment compensation? Are you saying those not working should be paid? If so how much? 

Equal protection under the law to me is not discriminating against people when hiring.


----------



## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

As a Democrat I don't hate poor black people or want them impoverished at all. It's just that I think it's humane that every citizen of the country should have a safety net if they fall on hard times.

Jobs are ideal, but maybe people get government assistance because they actually need it. I'd rather my tax dollars go for that than for corporate welfare or one of Trump's many trips to the golf course.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> As a Democrat I don't hate poor black people or want them impoverished at all.



Democrats have controlled the inner city concentration camps for 50 years and we see the results clearly. The idea is not to free them but cripple them with welfare cocaine so  they will always vote Democratic. 

Thomas Jefferson:
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> As a Democrat I don't hate poor black people or want them impoverished at all. It's just that I think it's humane that every citizen of the country should have a safety net if they fall on hard times.
> 
> Jobs are ideal, but maybe people get government assistance because they actually need it. I'd rather my tax dollars go for that than for corporate welfare or one of Trump's many trips to the golf course.



Right, Trump should just stay home every  weekend like you, huh? 

Nobody has a problem  with something to  help  out during hard times.  Conservatives  have a problem with people that use government  handouts as  an option instead of  no choice.   

For instance:  I have a HUD house next door to me.  If I  have to support people that don't want to work, fine, but  I  don't want to  support them in the suburbs.  I go to work everyday so I can live in the suburbs.  I should not have to go to  work everyday to support non-workers or  low income people  in the suburbs.  If they  want to live in the suburbs, they should do what I've done  and  not  have children I can't afford and go to work everyday.  If I have to support them, they should live in the inner-city.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


The bloated rich who can best afford it and have been making out like bandits since Reagan, without any trickle down, hopefully- but probably again the nonrich getting screwed by higher state and local taxes, at least until Dems get control like under LBJ- you know, the good old days. And raise taxes on the rich and giant giant corps. The poor things, I know, dupe.


----------



## Thinker101 (Apr 24, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Obama snaps photo of Michelle on yacht - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > As a Democrat I don't hate poor black people or want them impoverished at all. It's just that I think it's humane that every citizen of the country should have a safety net if they fall on hard times.
> ...


Or we could actually invest the bloated rich's money in them and the country and end this New BS GOP banana republic- like before pander to the rich Reaganism. I submit you have no idea of their situation, just assume the worst.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Try actual issues and politics instead of hate and gossip, dupe.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...








Great job!!


----------



## Thinker101 (Apr 24, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



LOL...here I figured Obama, champion of the down and out,  partying on a 450 ft yacht was politics and an issue.  Evidently CNN felt it was important enough to do a segment.  But hey, guess you have your own agenda.


----------



## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > As a Democrat I don't hate poor black people or want them impoverished at all. It's just that I think it's humane that every citizen of the country should have a safety net if they fall on hard times.
> ...



Let me guess, you had a big problem with President Obama golfing even though Trump has had numerous golf trips while Obama had none during the first 100 days of his presidency.

Also, if and when I go out during the weekends, I don't cost the taxpayers anything.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...


It's the middle class and working class he and Dems are worried about these days. He earned his money and paid fair taxes on them, unlike your greedy idiot heroes like Romney and probably Trump. AND he and the Dem rich want to RAISE their own taxes, not cut them AGAIN, dupe.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...








That's a disgrace, dupe. ALL Reaganism.


----------



## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > As a Democrat I don't hate poor black people or want them impoverished at all.
> ...



There are poor people. There are people who have assistance because they need it and I'm sure they would better themselves if they could.


----------



## Thinker101 (Apr 24, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



You losers, Obama included, do realize you can always pay more to the IRS.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > As a Democrat I don't hate poor black people or want them impoverished at all.
> ...


The last 35 years we've had nothing but cuts on policy to help them rise, dupe, and pander to the rich bs.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...


Shove it up your ass, superdupe.


----------



## Thinker101 (Apr 24, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Now there's the typical liberal we've gotten to know.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



Oh please, you act as if Trump is the only one that spends money getting out of the white house for some R and R. 

Sorry, but anytime any President leaves the white house, it costs the taxpayers money.  But no matter where the  President goes, there is no real vacation.  Nobody is there  to  take care of  the Presidents business while he is gone.  

It doesn't cost the taxpayer anything for golf trips or vacations.  It's the transportation and security that cost money, and  that  can't be avoided.


----------



## Markle (Apr 24, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> The rich needed their bailout.



Naaa!  Petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama provided them with an immense bailout all during his failed administration.

Through his failed policies he forced the Fed to pour trillions of worthless paper dollars into our economy which found it's way to the stock market.  The only investment remaining due to Obama's punishing taxes and regulations prohibiting starting and expanding businesses.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...


Intelligent people get tired of the same stupid talking points from brainwashed functional morons. And it was you who thought STFU was a fine argument last page. Shove your little emojis while you're at it, dupe. Which is a political argument- in fact the most important one there is with this new generation of New BS GOP propaganda fools. Almost all of you think the rich pay the highest % of income in taxes and are the job creators. Absolute idiocy, dupe. And that Dem leaders are corrupt...DITTO. In fact that's the whole knowledge of most GOP dupes. This is a POLITICS forum for GOPers who are supposed INTERESTED, and you're ignorant, brainwashed twits. The rest? Yikes- mainly racist know nothings...


----------



## Markle (Apr 24, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



In my opinion, it is senseless to make any attempt to reason with Progressives, especially at this time. They have yet to progress through the five stages of grief and loss.  They have a long way to go, they are stuck on stage 2, anger.  

The 5 stages of grief and loss are: 1. Denial and isolation; 2. Anger; 3. Bargaining; 4. Depression; 5. Acceptance.

As the cliche goes, President Donald Trump could walk across the Potomac River and the New York Times and the other Progressives would scream that Trump can't swim.

My choice is to ignore them.  That hurts them much more than engaging in their childish whining.


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## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Did Trump not say he wouldn't take a vacation? Did Trump not say he wouldn't have time to play golf even though he is playing it at an alarming rate? These are needless and unnecessary. Not to mention it diminishes Trump's integrity and credibility.

The next time a Democrat is in the White House, I'm sure you'll object whenever he/she leaves to go golfing or take a vacation. Local business owners admitted they were being negatively impacted with all of Trump's frequent trips to Mar-a-Lago.


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## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > The rich needed their bailout.
> ...


Total bs, dupe. The Fed actions- NOT Obama policies- since the GOP allowed NOTHING- were all the GOP allowed, and they just LOVED it. IDIOT.

Bush's TARP was the bailout for the greedy idiot rich Wall Sters (mainly GOP). Obama's stimulus was 1/4 infrastructure jobs, and a lot of money for keeping teachers, cops, and firemen and services for victims of the corrupt GOP meltdown, dupe. Try real news sometime.


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## Thinker101 (Apr 24, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Cup of cocoa?


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## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...


WE DON"T GIVE A SHYTTE. You hater dupes are the only ones who care about such malevolent gossip. We just point out your brainwashed hypocrisy. Ditto Hilary's "lies and corruption". Meanwhile your heroes rob the middle class and the country blind. Every day and see 1929,  S+L and 2008. DUHHHHHHHHH dupes.


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## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...


God what an idiot....


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## Markle (Apr 24, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> What happened to laissez-fair, right wingers. We have, employment at will States.
> 
> The right wing, just likes to, "hate on the poor" by denying and disparaging them, steak and lobster on their EBT cards and equal protection of the law regarding the concept of employment at will, for unemployment compensation purposes.



I'm a bottom line guy.

As you know, the Welfare Reform Act of 1996 was extremely effective.  Moving millions of people from the welfare rolls to payrolls.  Petulant former President Barack Hussin Obama effectively eliminated the act resulting in millions more on welfare, food stamps and no longer even looking for jobs.

So again, who is "hating on the poor"?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 24, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Obama's stimulus was 1/4 infrastructure jobs, and a lot of money for keeping teachers, cops, and firemen and services for victims of the corrupt GOP meltdown, dupe. Try real news sometime.



Gee, and what do all those groups have in common?  Oh yeah, that's right, they are all union people.  You know unions, don't you?  Those groups that donate heavily to the DNC and Democrat  politicians?   You know, like the UAW that Obama helped to save their ass?


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## Thinker101 (Apr 24, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Well, so much for the idea of you loons taking the high road.  Or anything that remotely looks like a road.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 24, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Yep, Obama increased the gap, thanks for pointing that out hater dupe.


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## Markle (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> Let me guess, you had a big problem with President Obama golfing even though Trump has had numerous golf trips while Obama had none during the first 100 days of his presidency.
> 
> Also, if and when I go out during the weekends, I don't cost the taxpayers anything.



Why do you demand that the President of the United States not be allowed to go home on weekends?


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## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Let me guess, you had a big problem with President Obama golfing even though Trump has had numerous golf trips while Obama had none during the first 100 days of his presidency.
> ...



It has been a burden on the locals and going against what he said he would do. It's one thing to do it, but every weekend? Then when Summer hits he will be going somewhere else instead of Mar-a-Lago.

If Obama had gone home to Chicago every weekend, how would you have reacted?


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## Markle (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> There are people who have assistance because they need it and I'm sure they would better themselves if they could.



Some might, the rest are happy to whine and have you make yourself feel good by giving them even more.


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## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > There are people who have assistance because they need it and I'm sure they would better themselves if they could.
> ...



Do you think more people abuse the system than those who really need it?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> Markle said:
> 
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> > IResist said:
> ...



I do because I see it all the time.


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## Markle (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> If Obama had gone home to Chicago every weekend, how would you have reacted?



Why did he never return to the mansion he bought in the neighborhood of his racist Reverand Jerimiah Wright and with the help of convicted felon Tony Rezko.  Still in prison.


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## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
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Or maybe because you see it doesn't mean that it's always the case. I'm against abusing the system. I'm not against the system altogether. I feel corporate welfare is a bigger problem than social welfare.


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## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > If Obama had gone home to Chicago every weekend, how would you have reacted?
> ...



Well, for one thing, I would say that Obama took less vacation time than both Reagan and George W. Bush. That's one thing.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
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> > IResist said:
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There is no corporate welfare.  Corporate welfare is a liberal term meaning the government takes less  of other  people's money.  That's not welfare.  Welfare is giving people  something they never had before--not taking less from them. 

 Always the  case?  No.  Most of the cases I've seen?  Yes. 

About two  years ago one of my tenants became increasingly late with rent.  It was an  unmarried  couple with two children together.  Spotting the trend, I invited  them  to my apartment to discuss the problem. 

He  worked 40 hours  a week and wouldn't work an hour more. She stayed home supposedly home schooling their children even though she was as dumb as an ox.  After evaluating their situation, I found a solution: 

I suggested that if he wished to work only 40 hours a week, and she wished to stay home, then the solution to their problem was simple:  She can get a part-time job on the weekends when he's home to watch the kids!  

Great solution, but she wouldn't even entertain the idea. Why?  Because she was getting  $250.00  a month  in food stamps.  So I took them  to court for an eviction and now it's on his record for any landlord to see. 

Both people  smoked cigarettes.  Their oldest child  was a 12 year old  girl who also smoked, and they provided  her the tobacco since she was too young to work and buy her own.  They had three cats, an Obama phone, a large dog, and cable television.  

Their situation was not that unusual.  I often see food stamp people at the grocery store.  They buy their allowable food items, but then whip out cash for the cigarettes, beer, greeting  cards, flowers, perfume, huge bags of dog food,  and various other items that are not covered under SNAP.  

Okay, it's anecdotal.  So if you want to see those who "need" pubic assistance, check out what Maine did with their food stamp program.  After creating  simple requirements, most of the people  without dependents dropped out of their food stamp program.


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## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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Corporate welfare does exist. Believe it or not, this government does subsidize the rich. To think so otherwise is just plain denial. It is a real thing.

Those people sound like rotten parents and people, period. There is no justifying what you say they did.


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## Markle (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> Do you think more people abuse the system than those who really need it?



Between thirty and fifty percent abuse the system.  Possibly more.  Progressives have taught them how to most effectively game the system.


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## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Do you think more people abuse the system than those who really need it?
> ...



What counts as abuse and what sources do you have of this?


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## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > What happened to laissez-fair, right wingers. We have, employment at will States.
> ...


Did you hear about the Great Recession DUHHHH? There was no work for so many to do...duhhh. When you're on welfare, you have to look. It was another world depression, dupe.


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## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Do you think more people abuse the system than those who really need it?
> ...


*After 30 years of Voodoo AND A corrupt GOP DEPRESSION: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?*


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



Again, welfare is when you "give" somebody something they don't have.  Very few corporations (if any) get money from the government without paying something  back.  Corporate  welfare is a liberal term meaning  tax breaks.  Tax  breaks  mean paying  less taxes.


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## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
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> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Not true. There are corporate subsidies and perks from the government. It's not just tax breaks. It's also corporate welfare, something we spend more on than social welfare.


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## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Obama's stimulus was 1/4 infrastructure jobs, and a lot of money for keeping teachers, cops, and firemen and services for victims of the corrupt GOP meltdown, dupe. Try real news sometime.
> ...


Also cops and firemen are your heroes, and teachers should be too. Actually, it was also easy to help them as they're gov't jobs. GM and CFA were also easy as they're so huge. Your GOP heroes that started the GD mess would have allowed another full blown great depression. Thank god the Dems got in quick this time, and all the other socialist modern countries this time. The GOP is a gd disgrace, dupe.


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## Markle (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> If Obama had gone home to Chicago every weekend, how would you have reacted?



It would have been great!

I'd have LOVED for him to call attention, EVERY SINGLE WEEKEND, to his Racist Reverend, his neighbors such as Minister Louis Farrakhan.  It would also call attention to the fact that he needed the help of a convicted felon, currently serving time in prison, in order to buy his mansion.


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## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > If Obama had gone home to Chicago every weekend, how would you have reacted?
> ...



Or maybe the overwhelming majority of Republicans would've eviscerated him for it.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



Yeah, like DumBama  really would have cared what  they thought.


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## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...



Yet it doesn't seem to bother you that Trump is apathetic to what people think of him going to Mar-a-Lago despite the problems his frequent trips create.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 24, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Dumbocrats never do anything without an ulterior motive.  Yeah, it looks  good we're helping union construction  crews, union government  workers,  union  teachers........ But the real real reason  is because DumBama wanted to  use our tax dollars  for a payback, and to insure that union  money continues flowing to the DNC in the future.


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## Markle (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> What counts as abuse and what sources do you have of this?



I don't have to.  You asked what I thought.  Abuse are people who intentionally do not get married in order to receive higher benefits.  Abuse is women who get pregnant and chose to remain single so they count as living in poverty and thus they qualify for more benefits than if they were married.


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## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > If Obama had gone home to Chicago every weekend, how would you have reacted?
> ...


BS character assassination- What you call politics, dupe.


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## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > What counts as abuse and what sources do you have of this?
> ...



My personal belief is abusers should not ruin things for people who genuinely need it. If you find abusers, kick them off.

If you (in general) are legitimately in need, I have no problem with my tax dollars going to help you because I know what it's like to have hardships and setbacks. Maybe not to your extent, but it isn't easy. Some people might work multiple jobs and still need help. I support giving them that help.


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## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Character assassination is not politics, dupe. How the hell did you want them to stop the corrupt GOP meltdown? Give cash to truckers? IT WORKED. Except in dupeworld, of course...


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## Papageorgio (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



I wouldn't care! Much bigger problems in this country than where a President spends weekends.


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## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...



Have you considered the local repercussions to Trump's frequent Mar-a-Lago visits not to mention lacking credibility and integrity given his prior statements?


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## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > What counts as abuse and what sources do you have of this?
> ...


It's NOT from Obama, it's bipartisan welfare money. Maybe if the GOP would allow a living wage and cheap training/college for good jobs people wouldn't be so hopeless. But carry on with the racist bs, ignorant rube.


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## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


Except in Dupeworld when it's a Dem...


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## Markle (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> Or maybe the overwhelming majority of Republicans would've eviscerated him for it.



Not a chance.  Each time the Conservative news would have called attention to the fact that it was a convicted felon who assisted the Obama's to buy his mansion by purchasing the adjoining lot which had the formal garden for the main house.

Then the questions on why the Obama's weren't attending the racist church they attended with the Rev. Wright for more than 20 years.  So much fun!  Maybe the Obama's could have had their old friends over for dinner?  The Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers, and his wife, Minister Farrakhan, then there is his former Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel.

Wow, what could be better?


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## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Or maybe the overwhelming majority of Republicans would've eviscerated him for it.
> ...



They criticized Obama for every thing under the sun, justified or not. I hear crickets on Trump's frequent golf trips, but oh the horror the times Obama golfed.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 24, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



You can't bring  a country of 315  million people out of a recession  by catering to your group of voters.  You have to bring money across the board. 

When fracking lowered the price of fuel, everybody got  a savings; some into the hundreds  of dollars a month. 

Companies saved thousands or tens of thousands  a year.  Workers  saved hundreds.  It was new money everybody had.  

So people took that new money to repay debts, buy new things,  invest.  That was the key to getting  out of the slump we  were  in, and  it was by no help from  Democrats who until  today,  protest against  fracking.


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## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...


He's about to start going to his golf club in NJ...


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## Papageorgio (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



How about Trump bombing Syria and Obama bombing Libya, did you think of the repercussions? Good grief, bigger issues than Trump going home or Obama golfing and vacations and on and on, let's talk about real issues, like why Democrats have keep blacks on permanent welfare. That is a bigger issue than a bunch of rich white people being inconvenienced.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



AreYou kidding? Hell, you lefties have cried and cried about Trump. Surprised you aren't crying about him leaving a toilet seat up.

Why not talk about the topic of the thread?


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## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Sorry, but the stimulus worked in 2009-10, and shale too off after that, getting us over GOP disfunction THEN, thank god. We're damn lucky.





And Obama didn't stop fracking at all, just made it as safe as possible...


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## Papageorgio (Apr 24, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



No, I never cared about What Obama did in his spare time, it is silly. They have a ton of responsibility, they need to be able to relax.


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## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


Because it's total brainwashed RW idiocy? LOL


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## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

I have heard so much crying and complaining about Obama over the last eight years I don't know where to start.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 24, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



That you have failed to refute! Lol! Hater dupe!


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## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


You're the exception that proves the rule. With your good man hiring ideas and this, why the hell are you GOP LOL?


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## Papageorgio (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> I have heard so much crying and complaining about Obama over the last eight years I don't know where to start.



I heard it with Clinton, I heard it with Bush, I heard it with Obama and now you are continuing the tradition with Trump. Congrats for being a whiner.


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## JBond (Apr 24, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


It's kinda like giving Deepwater Horizon a safety award.


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## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > I have heard so much crying and complaining about Obama over the last eight years I don't know where to start.
> ...



That is rich considering al of the whining Trump does on Twitter.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 24, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Because the Democrats are just as corrupt and the Republicans. They are the rich looking out for the rich, they don't look out for the average hard working American or the poor.


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## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


There's nothing TO refute. You think blacks are going to vote for the Racist Party LOL? That's all this is...


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## Papageorgio (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



I have said many many times that someone needs to take his Twitter account away. It is childish the way he tweets, he has lowered himself to your level of crying.


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## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



My response is that even though I think the establishment wing of the Dem party has run its course, I still think the average hard working American/poor person has benefitted more from their recent policies than from a GOP policy.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 24, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



They have voted for a racist party since they started voting. Two corrupt partys. Very sad situation for them. Dems have tried to keep poor blacks poor to buy votes, it has work well.


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## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



It's not my level of crying nor is it my level. I can take criticism and admit when I'm wrong. He can't.


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## JBond (Apr 24, 2017)

Fran, how many people do you employ and how many receive over $10 an hour? How about $15? 20? 45? $100?


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## Papageorgio (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



I think Dems are bribing for votes, I refuse to be misled, I watch what they actually do instead of what they claim they want to do.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



Then quit crying.


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## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



You mean like how Democrats actually protected people with preexisting conditions while Republicans only said they would?


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## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



I'm not crying. Not at all. Trump cries more than I could ever dream of.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



Obamacare is a waste, what good is the health insurance that we are forced to buy to be legal citizens of the United States, when the deductibles make the policy worthless.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



You are doing it in this thread, you cry because he goes home, who but a whiny little kid does that? Grow up and stay on topic!

Trump cries more than me, whaaaaa! Whaaaa! Lol!


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## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


There is no such thing as unemployment only underpayment; unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed, helps solve that problem.


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## danielpalos (Apr 24, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


An actual right to work in alleged right to work States.


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## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> IResist said:
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> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



The original point is that I am against cutting a safety net for people as the money that Trump spends on his vacations could be used to help those who need it.


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## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Except for their policies. You dupes are quite mad...


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## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


I doubt it. They're probably disabled...


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## Papageorgio (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



Like the money The Obama's spent on their vacations? Again, I have no issue, because in a world where we are 20 trillion in debt, what Is spent on the Presidents is not much of anything. Should we take away funding for Amtrak? How about NPR and PBS? If you want to save let's do real cuts instead of playing silly kids games about President's vacations. Let's cut corporate welfare, let's cut spending across all federal departments by 25%. That is cutting, what you are crying about is crumbs. Did you complain when we had a stimulus package bailout banks and car companies? You could have had lots and lots of safety nets, but that isn't the politicians way is it?


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## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



What I propose are cuts in corporate welfare, wasteful defense spending and either weekly or every other week trips to golf resorts/Mar-a-Lago. Plus Melania and Baron staying in New York City is not a good deal for the taxpayer.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 24, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



They don't have policies to help the poor get off the public dole. Lol! They have programs to KEEP them there! You are really quite humorous.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> Papageorgio said:
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> > IResist said:
> ...



Corporate welfare like Amtrak, NPR, PBS?


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## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> IResist said:
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> > Papageorgio said:
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Corporate welfare like special interest groups and large organizations.


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## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

JBond said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


That was a Booooshie/GOP/Halliburton crony thing- that's also gotten safer under Dems. Now? WATCH OUT!


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## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > I have heard so much crying and complaining about Obama over the last eight years I don't know where to start.
> ...


There's just a TINY difference. Phony dupe scandals against the Dems, 9/11 thru sheer incompetence, the worst wars EVER AND a corrupt WORLD DEPRESSION against Booosh!!!! Ay caramba!


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...


Or actual helping the poor and the lower middle to health care....


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 24, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



Lol! You are the reason this will happen again, sheer ignorance and partisan BS. See beyond the two parties.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 24, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



It didn't, deductibles make the insurance worthless, dupe!


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


The middle class and the country are already falling apart to save the rich from paying their share...We spend nothing on NPR etc- more than worth it...


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Funny how the horrible shytte happens under the GOP, and now a disgraceful propaganda machine, dupe. You didn't notice those Boooshie disasters, dupe? LOL arghhhh....


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...


BS, my dear. And Medicaid for the poor? Saves lives, free for them. And Dems don't help the poor? SS, UE, Food Stamps, cheap loans for college, you name it, NOT GOP. Keeping them poor my ASS.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...


Cheap tests and no more bankruptcies- the way it was going. The problem is how expensive care is under the old GOP scam plan, stupid- and ACA finally is slowing down the rise. FIX IT! Dupes!!.


----------



## Markle (Apr 24, 2017)

IResist said:


> They criticized Obama for every thing under the sun, justified or not. I hear crickets on Trump's frequent golf trips, but oh the horror the times Obama golfed.



As you know, petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama was not going home for the weekend which also included the entire resort and golf course.

Why not just admit that you hate him because he is incredibly rich?


----------



## IResist (Apr 24, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > They criticized Obama for every thing under the sun, justified or not. I hear crickets on Trump's frequent golf trips, but oh the horror the times Obama golfed.
> ...



I do not think Obama is/was petulant. Ever.

Wealth has nothing to do with it. Maybe if he has wealth he shouldn't be burdening the taxpayers and the locals.


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## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


See beyond and vote GOP, right. Dupe! Look at their POLICIES. In the last 40 years, Dems got ACA- our only hope- that is all since LBJ.- and the GOP wrecked the middle class and the world. All for the greedy idiot rich.


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## francoHFW (Apr 24, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > They criticized Obama for every thing under the sun, justified or not. I hear crickets on Trump's frequent golf trips, but oh the horror the times Obama golfed.
> ...


BS- POLICIES.


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## Markle (Apr 24, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You can't bring a country of 315 million people out of a recession by catering to your group of voters. You have to bring money across the board.
> 
> When fracking lowered the price of fuel, everybody got a savings; some into the hundreds of dollars a month.
> 
> ...



I know you're aware but the Progressives have their own version of the facts.

Fracking increased in use not because of petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama but in SPITE of him.  He did all he could to halt its use on federal government land but he could not halt the use on state or private land.  That is where all gas came from, not from anything done by Obama.

President Obama wanted $4.00 to $5.00 per gallon gas.  He wanted energy prices to "necessarily skyrocket" too.  So, in fact, he failed at this too.


----------



## Markle (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> My response is that even though I think the establishment wing of the Dem party has run its course, I still think the average hard working American/poor person has benefitted more from their recent policies than from a GOP policy.



Then why are lower and middle-income households in worse condition after EIGHT YEARS of leadership by petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama?


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > My response is that even though I think the establishment wing of the Dem party has run its course, I still think the average hard working American/poor person has benefitted more from their recent policies than from a GOP policy.
> ...



I'm not sure I agree with that. They have a safety net because of Democrats. They have expanded healthcare because of Democrats. They cannot possibly be in worse shape than they were in 2008.


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## Markle (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> The original point is that I am against cutting a safety net for people as the money that Trump spends on his vacations could be used to help those who need it.



WOW!  Now THAT'S DESPERATION!  What a load of malarkey!

President Donald Trump could have stayed in the Whitehouse every minute of every day since January 20, 2017, and you'd WHINE about the cost of the Tomahawk missiles or the MOAB bombing of the ISIS stronghold in Afghanistan.


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > The original point is that I am against cutting a safety net for people as the money that Trump spends on his vacations could be used to help those who need it.
> ...



Not really. It's hardly desperation. It's one thing to spend. It's another to spend foolishly. I'm not expecting him to stay in the White House all the time, but even some members of his own party thinks he's excessive with his trips.


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## Markle (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> I'm not sure I agree with that. They have a safety net because of Democrats. They have expanded healthcare because of Democrats. They cannot possibly be in worse shape than they were in 2008.



They do not have expanded healthcare.  Petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama created a monstrosity that even its architect said that supporters had to be STUPID.

I also did not say 2008.  I said over the past eight years.  Which as you know is true.


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure I agree with that. They have a safety net because of Democrats. They have expanded healthcare because of Democrats. They cannot possibly be in worse shape than they were in 2008.
> ...



More people are covered under Obamacare than they were before it, and Obamacare has been found to save lives.


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## Markle (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Not really. It's hardly desperation. It's one thing to spend. It's another to spend foolishly. I'm not expecting him to stay in the White House all the time, but even some members of his own party thinks he's excessive with his trips.



You have yet to explain why you consider this rounding error in our budget of paramount importance when a president you hate, beyond words, goes HOME on the weekends.  A resort and home he has owned since the mid-80's.

Wow, "SOME" member of his own party THINK he is excessive with his trips.  Oh yeah, I think I saw that on a headline in the New York Times.  I am UNDERWHELMED!


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Not really. It's hardly desperation. It's one thing to spend. It's another to spend foolishly. I'm not expecting him to stay in the White House all the time, but even some members of his own party thinks he's excessive with his trips.
> ...



When he does this every single weekend, he is taking unnecessary trips, thus resulting in hurting businesses and forcing a tax increase to pay for it. Going to West Palm Beach does not benefit the people of West Palm Beach and it only adds to the mess. Everything all adds up, and money could be spent better than on these trips.


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## Markle (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> More people are covered under Obamacare than they were before it, and Obamacare has been found to save lives.



In spite of the FACT that millions not only cannot afford the coverage but have no use for it with $5,000 to $10,000 deductible.


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > More people are covered under Obamacare than they were before it, and Obamacare has been found to save lives.
> ...



Even though rates were skyrocketing at a faster rate than before the ACA was enacted.


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## Markle (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> I do not think Obama is/was petulant. Ever.
> 
> Wealth has nothing to do with it. Maybe if he has wealth he shouldn't be burdening the taxpayers and the locals.



What are your other socks?


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > My response is that even though I think the establishment wing of the Dem party has run its course, I still think the average hard working American/poor person has benefitted more from their recent policies than from a GOP policy.
> ...


Reaganism rolls on, dumbass.


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > I do not think Obama is/was petulant. Ever.
> ...



Based on his tweets and what he says in interviews, Trump has thinner skin than any of his predecessors. Combined.


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## American_Jihad (Apr 25, 2017)

_Another stupid libtart from msnbc..._


*A FEARFUL WHITE LEFTIST’S BLACK NATIONALISM*
*Chris Hayes goes all in on Black Nationalism with “A Colony in a Nation.”*
April 24, 2017

Daniel Greenfield







...


Of course _A Colony in a Nation _doesn’t bother to think that far. Instead it gorges on white guilt and black victimhood. Hayes’ model of the apartheid state demands that white people be the ones to call the cops on black people. His narrow experience of black people is such that he sees them as perpetrators.

And feels guilty for it.

In one of the most toxic moments in _A Colony in a Nation_, Hayes debates whether to call the police after watching black teens mug a man in a park. The MSNBC host wants to avoid being complicit in the colonial oppression of the muggers. Instead he’s complicit in the mugging.

This, in a nutshell, is the left’s pro-crime politics which does no one, black or white, any favors.

"The boys had crossed over from disorderliness to unlawfulness," Hayes fussily narrates. "Acting the fool was one thing but taking someone's phone was quite another. Who knew what they would get up to next?"

He reaches for his own phone, but then remembers Michael Brown and can’t decide whether to call.

...

That is the leftocracy that controls America. That announces its plans to “resist” the results of a democratic election because it is convinced of its own absolute entitlement to control its colony.

The colonial elite of men like Hayes is entirely detached from the nation. It exists in the realm of theory. It interprets everything through an augmented reality of ideology. It’s gobbling Black Nationalist tracts and even writing them not because it cares about black people, but because the colony hates the nation.

A Fearful White Leftist’s Black Nationalism


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

Both parties resist- Dems not so well- that's how our country became a pander to the rich racist mess...


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## Papageorgio (Apr 25, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



I'm not your dear asshole, Dems help the poor stay poor, thank you for acknowledging it.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 25, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Lol! Number one cause of bankruptcies is still medical dupe! I linked proof of that a long time ago and you still persist in lying.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



Of course they are.  Commie Care was not designed to make sure everybody was covered, Commie Care was designed to create as many new government dependents as possible.  The more government dependents, the more likely Democrat voters.  

Less people have private health insurance today than in  2008.  That means most of the people on Commie Care are on a government plan like Medicaid.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



So what happens when you take tax breaks away from the business?  The business finds ways to recoup that loss.  It could be increasing the cost of their products or services, skipping out on yearly wage increases for their employees.  Reducing their healthcare benefits or making them pay more, or outsourcing more work.  Depending  on the situation, they may even move the whole company out of the US like so many before them.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...


quibbling over "nickels and dimes"?  

The drug war could be abolished in five minutes or less, by executive order.


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## danielpalos (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...


Let's get rid of the drug war, first.



> The state of Colorado pulled in nearly $200 million in tax revenue last year thanks to its $1.3 billion in marijuana revenue.--http://www.marketwatch.com/story/marijuana-tax-revenue-hit-200-million-in-colorado-as-sales-pass-1-billion-2017-02-10


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## danielpalos (Apr 25, 2017)

a drug war is a real drag on the economy; no "high" at all.


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

People are alive today because of Obamacare. Not in spite of it. The death panels being installed was a myth.

Corporate welfare includes perks and subsidies and does not create jobs. Period.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 25, 2017)

end the drug war; laissez-fair, all the way, right wingers.  don't be socialists, be more capitalist.



> Marijuana tax revenue hit $200 million in Colorado as sales pass $1 billion


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

The drug war is the big government that Republicans claim they are against. Except they aren't. Both parties favor big government.

Usually when Democrats favor big government it's for the purpose of helping people.

When Republicans favor big government, usually it intends to hurt people.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> People are alive today because of Obamacare. Not in spite of it. The death panels being installed was a myth.
> 
> Corporate welfare includes perks and subsidies and does not create jobs. Period.



So were you against bailing out the banks and GM? Are you for cutting Amtrak, PBS and NPR or do you just want to pick and choose what corporate welfare you dislike or support?


----------



## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > People are alive today because of Obamacare. Not in spite of it. The death panels being installed was a myth.
> ...



Amtrak, PBS and NPR are publically funded. They ought to be saved.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> The drug war is the big government that Republicans claim they are against. Except they aren't. Both parties favor big government.
> 
> Usually when Democrats favor big government it's for the purpose of helping people.
> 
> When Republicans favor big government, usually it intends to hurt people.



With record levels of overdoses and overdose deaths in the US from drugs, that drug war is there to help the people.  


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


----------



## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > The drug war is the big government that Republicans claim they are against. Except they aren't. Both parties favor big government.
> ...



The drug war doesn't help the people. It ruins their lives and wastes money and overcrowds prisons.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



It is corporate welfare, public or private. Amtrak is a for profit corporation, who directly competes against private bus companies thus creating an unfair advantage for Amtrak in the market place. PBS and NPR are both privately and publicly funded and are non-profit corporations, so then it is corporate welfare. 

So you are for corporate welfare where you think it should be?

Were you for all the bailouts in 2009?


----------



## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



Well that was eight years ago and at the time I was. Whether I'd be for bailouts again in the future would depend on the circumstances.

I will say that I think corporate welfare is often largely ineffective.


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## bendog (Apr 25, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?


Heck nobody wants em on welfare.  I hate cooking my own greens.  Nasty business.  (-:.  Ever tried cleaning chitlins.  No thanks.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



Yet, you what corporate welfare for only certain corporations. How do you determine whether the welfare is effective or not, you seem to be for some but not others.


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## Chuz Life (Apr 25, 2017)

The "war on drugs" (to the extent there is one) is a war based on societal ideals and an intolerance of things (like drug abuse) that erode the basis of a society. 

Society has a collective right to protect itself.

I support the war on drugs on that basis. While there are clearly many economical aspects to consider, It is not and should not ever be a purely economical decision.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 25, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


ohhh, very relevant.  without the working people's money, you got chaos.  Seems that is what you want.  Are you a chaos organizer?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 25, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


Mike Rowe, there are 5 million jobs out there for those who wish to take them.  Why aren't these tools taking those jobs then?

5.6 Million Reasons to Stop Ignoring the Skills Gap

"Now, eight years later, unemployment is down, interest rates are under control, and inflation is in check. But the overall labor participation rate is very low, and the skills gap is wider than ever. In fact, the latest numbers are out, and they are astonishing. According to the Department of Labor, *America now has 5.6 million job openings*."


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



I am against the numerous subsidies and perks which go to large organizations.


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Chuz Life said:


> The "war on drugs" (to the extent there is one) is a war based on societal ideals and an intolerance of things (like drug abuse) that erode the basis of a society.
> 
> Society has a collective right to protect itself.
> 
> I support the war on drugs on that basis. While there are clearly many economical aspects to consider, It is not and should not ever be a purely economical decision.



It is not just an economical stand point. Ending the war on drugs breaks up the drug cartels and also reduces the massive prison population. The drug war is used to control the populace and enhance the for profit prisons. The drug war has failed us, and has shown not to deter drugs or drug users.


----------



## Chuz Life (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Chuz Life said:
> 
> 
> > The "war on drugs" (to the extent there is one) is a war based on societal ideals and an intolerance of things (like drug abuse) that erode the basis of a society.
> ...



If you succeed in undoing all of that... drug abuse will still be a problem that society will have to deal with. 

Ending the so called war on drugs without dealing with the problems of drug abuse will simply swap one set of problems for another. 

Do you actually know any drug addicts?

I  do.


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Chuz Life said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Chuz Life said:
> ...



Well I have a friend who smokes pot. I think we ought to be helping those who use drugs with treatment rather than ruining them. I am for amnesty for non-violent drug users and believe releasing them would be a good thing. That way we won't have to release all the worst criminals and won't have to worry about the overpopulation problem.


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## jc456 (Apr 25, 2017)

Chuz Life said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Chuz Life said:
> ...


you all are pushing a narrative that is a loser one.  The drug addict does not want to be helped. If you truly know someone, then you'll know that they don't want to stop.  I have a friend who is one.  Believe me, he's been in a florida facility more times than I have fingers.  And still today, he gets himself all fked up.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Not a chance- this is just more upside down and backwards New BS GOP propaganda/big lie for dupes only. Every policy that would help people out of poverty has been from the Dems, and every cut in them from the GOP, all to save the poor megarich, and mainly in the last 35 years. See sig PP 1.


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## jc456 (Apr 25, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


fifty fking years they've been voting for democrats and they're still there.  I'd call that a big ass fail.  just saying.

Charles Barkley even commented on that:  funny shit.

Charles Barkley: ‘Black people have voted for Democrats their whole life, they’re still poor’

"*Charles Barkley: ‘Black people have voted for Democrats their whole life, they’re still poor’*"


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Chuz Life said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...


Legalize and tax pot- a great help for addicts of all kinds, and make treatment the main solution for hard drugs. The war on drugs is a disaster. Tax the rich to pay for it. Finally. When Dems get in, soon.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 25, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



How do you organize chaos, wait we are talking Daniel...never mind.


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## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


The New BS GOP has cut every policy to help the poor out of poverty to the bone at least. The Great Society was the last time Dem policies were in place, before the Southern Cal GOP wrecked the world.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



National Public Radio and Public Broadcasting System and Amtrak are multi billion dollar companies. You sound very random about corporate welfare, so you are for it unless you are against it? It seems you are random on this.


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## jc456 (Apr 25, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


middle name?


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## jc456 (Apr 25, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


no, no, no, don't blame conservative GOP, no sir.  fifty fking years the poor blacks have voted for democrats.  maybe it's time for a change.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 25, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



For the millionth time I don't read sigs., I block them, they are pure propaganda. 

What policies have helped the poor blacks get off the government dole? Medicare, Welfare, Medicaid, Obamacare, food stamps, and on and on do nothing to promote people in society, it is all to help them stay under government control.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 25, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Chuz Life said:
> ...


dude, I'm not sure what you're on, but you need to check in somewhere.  you've lost it.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 25, 2017)

Chuz Life said:


> The "war on drugs" (to the extent there is one) is a war based on societal ideals and an intolerance of things (like drug abuse) that erode the basis of a society.
> 
> Society has a collective right to protect itself.
> 
> I support the war on drugs on that basis. While there are clearly many economical aspects to consider, It is not and should not ever be a purely economical decision.


I am opposed to the drug war on moral grounds; it only engenders corruption and the abomination of hypocrisy.  it should be abolished in favor of the greater glory of our immortal souls.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 25, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Chuz Life said:
> 
> 
> > The "war on drugs" (to the extent there is one) is a war based on societal ideals and an intolerance of things (like drug abuse) that erode the basis of a society.
> ...


ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 25, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


The Power to Tax is clearly delegated to our federal Congress, to Provide for the General welfare, not the Common welfare.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 25, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


what's the difference?  explain your point.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Chuz Life said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



Treatment  doesn't work in  most cases; more of a waste of money than prison.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Chuz Life said:
> 
> 
> > The "war on drugs" (to the extent there is one) is a war based on societal ideals and an intolerance of things (like drug abuse) that erode the basis of a society.
> ...



And you think legalizing it is the  answer? 

Do you think we had more alcoholics in our country during prohibition or after?  Prohibition never stopped those who truly wanted to get drunk either, but at the time, it  reduced the amount of alcohol consumption.


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Chuz Life said:
> ...



Yet Prohibition is the only Amendment to be repealed.

I am for full legalization. Period. It's also a good way to fix our prison problem.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



Good, make it legal where you live.  Let those meth heads harass your daughter on  the sidewalk, or let them rob your house for drug money.  I don't need it.  You can support those people on welfare with  your paycheck. My political stance is to get more people off of government assistance--not put more people on.


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



For one I don't have any kids. Also, I don't know of any drug addicts whom I have ever dealt with. As I said, I am against abuse, but I support genuine help for people on it to help them get through struggles. I'd love it if everyone had a job and wouldn't have to use government assistance. Unfortunately that isn't the case and rather than hurt those who need it, I wish for my tax dollars to help those who are struggling.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



If you  want to see more  people working and off of government assistance, why would you support doing something that will result in less people working and more on government assistance?  

When you make  something legal, more people are going to use it.  Just check out the stats in states that legalized  pot.  They have more teenagers using pot, more DWI arrests, more problems that Im sure they can do without, and they've only had legal pot for a couple of years now. 

Maybe your problem is you didn't ever deal with drug addicts.  I have.  My house almost burned down to the ground because of drug addicts.  My apartment  has been robbed by drug addicts.  I've had apartments torn  to pieces by drug addicts.  My cousin lost her 28 year old son to drugs about a year and a  half ago.  He was fighting the addiction since he was  15.  All the so-called therapy didn't do squat.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 25, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Chuz Life said:
> ...



I actually agree that drugs should be legalized. Pharmacies can then sell them, you get a less dangerous mixture for the user, you can tax it and use the money to fund rehab. The other side is it would eliminate drug dealers that use others problems to make money. Also then we would have a database full of those that use and need help. What we have been doing is not working.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 25, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> , you get a less dangerous mixture for the user,


yes, every day we read about overdose deaths!!!


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> , I wish for my tax dollars to help those who are struggling.


how child-like!!!  If govt could help even with trillions of dollars( what it has already spent) we'd have heaven on earth right now!!! Why not read: "Please Stop Helping Us" if you'd like to grow up a little!!!


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## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
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Because of the GOP and discrimination. Great job! Charles is a selfish dupe.


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## Chuz Life (Apr 25, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Chuz Life said:
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> 
> > IResist said:
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Not sure what narrative it is you think I am pushing.  I  agree with everything else you said.


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## Chuz Life (Apr 25, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > , I wish for my tax dollars to help those who are struggling.
> ...



Exactly! 

And most people don't care or realize how inefficient the government really is. 

For the government to give one dollar to someone who genuinely needs it... it has to take two or three dollars from somebody else who EARNED it.


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## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > , I wish for my tax dollars to help those who are struggling.
> ...


Been doing the opposite under the GOP for 48 years....Especially the new bs GOP the last 30 years...


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## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > jc456 said:
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RW idiocy...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



works for the richest ONLY, blacks least of all...they know duh...


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## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
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  Duh, no. Cheap college and training programs, infrastructure spending, enterprise zones (where is Jack Kemp, the last
good GOPer?
*After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?*


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## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
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In GOP policies yup. *After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?*


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
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Pot does not make people violent or commit crimes. 

I propose just legalizing all drugs and ending this stupid war.


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > , I wish for my tax dollars to help those who are struggling.
> ...



It isn't childlike. Your tax dollars are going to go somewhere. A safety net is vital.


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Chuz Life said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
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> > IResist said:
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Except people that use social programs have also benefited positively from it. 

Like I said, tax dollars will go somewhere. I'd rather they go to help assist someone than for other things.


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## danielpalos (Apr 25, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
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There is no, general warfare clause, common offense clause, nor even a General defense clause.


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## danielpalos (Apr 25, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
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> > Chuz Life said:
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dear, Prohibition was Repealed as a Bad idea in those then, modern times. 

the right likes to repeat historical mistakes, and claim they are not really like that afterward, or "blame the left" if that doesn't work.


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## danielpalos (Apr 25, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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How much does that happen for alcohol and tobacco, already?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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Pot doesn't in  most cases.  But opiate drugs do.  Once these people get hooked, they can't work.  They sit there and stare at the wall.  They use more and more until they kill themselves.

It's like anything else.  Some people can take a snort and never touch it again for another five  years, and  it  won't bother them.  Others take one snort, and that's the  end  of their life.

One guy I met was a friend of a friend hooked on dope.  From  what I understand, he was a hell of a diesel mechanic, and they make pretty good money.  But he got fired from every job because he stole tools and parts for drugs.  He used to steal from his friends; break into their house when he knew they would not be home.

We  had  a string of church robberies in the area.  One of the  veteran police  officers was aware enough to remember the same kind of crime that took place many years earlier.  So he looked up the name, and it was this guy I knew.  So they tailed him.

Sure enough, he  broke  into another church and was busted red handed.  The judge  must have been very religious, because she gave him five years in prison.  A  few weeks into his sentence, he  went into a bathroom stall, shoved toilet paper up his nose and down his throat  and he killed himself.

I  don't  think it was jail that caused him  to kill himself, he's been  in jails  before for short periods of time.  But five  years  without his dope?  Death was better.

Why you would want to see  more of that I'll never understand.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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> > IResist said:
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I don't know anybody that lost their job, lost their house, lost their family, or robbed people for tobacco money.  Alcohol?  Probably to a much lesser degree than  drugs, but it does  happen.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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Alcohol is different because of the flavor of alcohol drinks.   It's sociable and  people get together for a drink without getting drunk or even a buzz. 

Nobody using dope does that.  Dope is for one thing and one thing only, and that is to get high.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> A safety net is vital.



child- like, retarded and 1000% liberal!! There is no safety net that catches you and bounces you out. There is intergenerational  crippling welfare that creates helpless dependent voters and subverts our democracy!!! You're a typical liberal bigot who thinks he's superior because he cares more!!

Welcome to your second lesson in American History:l

Ben Franklin:
"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I traveled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer."

Benjamin Franklin, On the Price of Corn and Management of the Poor, November 1766

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
-Benjamin Franklin


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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Yet alcohol still causes more damage to people and still influences more violence than pot does. If someone commits a crime on drugs, they should only be arrested for the crime, not the drugs. That's my point.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 25, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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You are a hater, the issue is the Dems have done absolutely nothing to get poor blacks out of the ghettos and making it even to middle class. Decades and decades, liberal cities, liberal states and they have democrats have done nothing.


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > A safety net is vital.
> ...



That is a generalization. I would only go on food stamps and welfare if I have to and thankfully I never have. People use assistance, but I'm sure there are also those who use it for just a time being. Welfare is also a crutch to help those back on their feet. Do you know what it's like to be on tough times?

The second Franklin quote is out of context. Congress sure votes themselves money a lot and there was even an amendment in response to that.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> I'm sure there are also those who use it for just a time being.


great, any nobody objects to that at all, we object to growing welfare entitlements for more and more people[ to subversively buy votes] buy encouraging us to become a nation of leeches rather than a nation or contributors and workers. Do you understand a liberal is a pusher always subverting our country by buying more and more votes.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Yet alcohol still causes more damage to people and still influences more violence than pot does.



This is true.  So that's the reason  we  should legalize something that's much worse  and have more people  partake in  that addiction?


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## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Blocked by the GOP the last 30 years- Carter and Teddy feuding blew that 4 years. You have to go back to LBJ....this is GOP policy the last 30-35 years. Great for the rich...*After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?*


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure there are also those who use it for just a time being.
> ...



Well, people need it for a time being. If you cut social welfare, what are the consequences of that? Have you ever thought people try to better their situation but that it isn't so easy?

Again, I am thankful I have never gone on food stamps or social welfare. I would only do so as a last resort, but I am starting a new job soon in my field for my career after working jobs that pay just above minimum wage and are laborious. I have worked very hard to better myself and dig myself out of my tough times these last couple years and I have really redeemed myself in the last 12 months. Before demonizing social welfare, just remember some may be on it because they need it.


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Yet alcohol still causes more damage to people and still influences more violence than pot does.
> ...



It seems alcohol is what's worse than pot and that is already legal. Absolutely pot should be off limits to children. Adults? I don't see why not.


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## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure there are also those who use it for just a time being.
> ...


There has been no Dem change in regs that got more people on welfare, just ANOTHER corrupt GOP great bubble/recession


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## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure there are also those who use it for just a time being.
> ...


*After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?*


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## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
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The Feds run things DUHHHH.


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## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Still, Dems are doing some states rights stuff these days- legal and taxed pot, free college in NY., sanctuary cities, etc....


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



Well Fn move already.  I get so sick of Americans telling us how great other countries are,  yet never pack a suitcase and  leave for those countries.  

If you don't like this  country, then  GTF out of it.  Go to one of these paradises you commies post all the  time  and leave the rest of us alone; nobody will miss you.  You think it's so great in other places, then WTF are you doing here?  

We like  our capitalist country the way it is. We don't want socialism or communism here.  There are plenty of places like that such as Cuba.  The  government takes care of you, nobody has money except the government, everybody is equal--equally poor, only the government has guns, and  you get your socialized healthcare.  Move already if you think it's so great.  

Then come back (if they let you) and tell us how wonderful your experience was.  You'll kiss the ground of this  country you despise so much now.


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Maybe instead of telling us to leave for another country we can take positive elements from another country and apply them here to make this country better.

Like it or not, there are aspects of socialism in this country.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



Quit hiding behind pot already.  You stated all drugs should be legal, not just pot.  If you want  all drugs legal, then you want more people hooked, more  people living in the streets, more people on social programs, more people stealing  and  dying.  If that's  what you want, then just say so.  But don't hide behind pot to make your argument.


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
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> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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Legalizing all drugs takes away the killing over drugs and breaks up the power of the cartels.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Maybe instead of telling us to leave for another country we can take positive elements from another country and apply them here to make this country better.
> 
> Like it or not, there are aspects of socialism in this country.



Yes there are, and every one of them is failing or soon to fail.  

As Margret Thatcher once said, Socialism is a great government until you run out of other people's money to spend. 

Unlike other  Americans who constantly bash our system  and point to other countries that have it sooooo great, real Americans like our country just the way it is.......I take  that back.....we like our country just the way it is, but we'd like it better with much less government.


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## danielpalos (Apr 25, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


A pot "high" is not toxic.  It is euphoric; you are more likely to get more accomplished, if you are more euphoric, than not.


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe instead of telling us to leave for another country we can take positive elements from another country and apply them here to make this country better.
> ...



Except these socialist programs have benefitted the American people and have helped them. You're saying you basically want to do away with Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid, yet they are vital to who we are as a country. I would say that having a mixed system is a good thing. Having more government isn't always a bad thing, and when it comes to programs to help those, people benefit.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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> > IResist said:
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Utter bull. 

Do you think that states that have legalized pot ended the illegal pot sellers?  Do you think that  lotteries and casinos ended mob bets?  Do you  think all prostitution  in Vegas is legal, and there are no prostitutes working outside of the government?  

Better think again.  States that have legalized pot have a larger problem with  illegal sellers undercutting the taxes and fees that the state charges.  The  mob uses lottery numbers to run their own game; they just have a better payout.  Illegal prostitution is all over Vegas, and yes, they undercut the prices of legalized prostitutes.  

If all drugs were legal, you would never end  the illegal sales  of drugs, in fact, you might make  it worse.


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
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> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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Maybe that's because pot isn't legal in every state. Maybe that's because prostitution isn't legal everywhere. It's a matter of cutting corners. Legalizing and taxing all drugs would be beneficial for our country.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



So is Medicare stable and not contributing to our debt?  How about Social Security?  Medicaid is one of the largest expenditures in most states.  The VA gives less than standard care as does Medicaid.  

Our socialist segments of our country is a large part of our 20 trillion in debt and growing.  Commie Care added   one trillion of those dollars.  

Our founders never imagined a  country where  everybody was dependent  on the  federal government  from food to water, from utilities to healthcare, from birth to death.  That was not their plan.  

_*"I cannot undertake  to lay my finger on  that article  of the Constitution, that grants Congress the  right, of expending  on  articles of benevolence, the money of their constituents." *_
James Madison,  annals  of Congress,  1794


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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I would say wasteful defense spending, going to wars while giving enormous tax cuts and deregulation also adds on.

These socialist programs are national treasures and must be protected at all costs.

Furthermore, I don't think it is best to apply the philosophy of the Founding Fathers of the 18th Century to the America of the 21st Century. America has evolved in many forms since then.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
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> > IResist said:
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That's the poorest excuse I've seen in a while. 

It has nothing  to do with what other states are doing. Riddle me this:  Prostitution  is illegal in Arizona,  it's  illegal  in California, HTF does that contribute to illegal prostitution in Nevada?  

It's the fallacy that making  something  legal  (that  was  illegal) will wipe out the illegality.  It hasn't worked in the past and it doesn't work now.  Nearly every state has lotteries, nearly every state has gambling.  Yet the mob is doing  just fine.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
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> > IResist said:
> ...



Yet if we only listened  to  Madison  back in the 18th century, we would have many less poor, many less slackers, no debt, and  perhaps a surplus that would lead  to lower taxes.  

The Defense  of the United States is outlined in the US Constitution--Cash for Clunkers is not.


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



If people have services legally, they may set up shop illegally and thus have lower cost, thus incentivizing the consumer. Legalizing all drug use won't lead to illegal drug use.


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## GoDemocratic (Apr 25, 2017)

DOTR said:


> Democrats are about power. And keeping people poor and dependent is a way to stay in power. it is that simple. They can't threaten me over health care...I pay for my own. I dont care if government cuts food stamps, section 8, welfare or head start. That makes me an obstacle for them to overcome and they do it with their dependent class.
> Government handouts create serfs.


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## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


You can't move there, a-hole. They don't want Americans. I'm AMERICAN, ASSHOLE. WHAT'S WRONG WITH IT is greedy idiot GOP billionaire lying brainwashers and silly probably racist dupes like you. I've been, in fact I owned a bar in Spain but you have to marry a European to live there and I missed the US and Americans, dumbass loudmouth fools like you included. Fuck your stupid love it or leave it bs. I do love it and am trying to point out YOU'RE WRONG, BRAINWASHED FUNCTIONAL ASSHOLE. You're lying cheating heroes are turning us into a banana republic.


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



There has always been a growing debt. The last time the country had no debt at all was during the Jackson administration. Regulations and government action is necessary.

I also would point to you Helvering vs. Davis, which declared Social Security Constitutional. Federal programs promote the general welfare and are allowed to proceed. While I do want a strong military, we can afford to cut back on some defense that we don't need and put it into domestic programs.


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## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


Sweden IS a bit much- I prefer Australia, Canada, France as an ECONOMIC model- I didn't say I want stupid jackasses like you to leave, not being an ugly American dupe. LOL. Change the gd channel.


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## GoDemocratic (Apr 25, 2017)

The conservative policies always result in recessions. Every recession we ever had was presided over by a 
Republican President starting with Herbert Hoover in 1929. The only one that did not have a recession was 
Reagan, but, if you are old enough you might remember that interest rates were over 18% trying to hold back
an overheated economy. Only when Clinton became President were the reigns held back sufficiently. Still, Reagan
was a successful President mostly because he compromised his policies with Tip O'Neill. However, if Trump 
continues with all the stops removed, the economy will again take off and then crash again so be careful what 
you wish for.


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

GoDemocratic said:


> The conservative policies always result in recessions. Every recession we ever had was presided over by a
> Republican President starting with Herbert Hoover in 1929. The only one that did not have a recession was
> Reagan, but, if you are old enough you might remember that interest rates were over 18% trying to hold back
> an overheated economy. Only when Clinton became President were the reigns held back sufficiently. Still, Reagan
> ...



It seems the American Dream Downpayment Act of 2003 also contributed to the recession of 2008.


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## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


We already HAVE socialism here, with ACA, just a feqing GOP pander to the rich mess, dupe. "Now we're all socialists!" -Finland PM when ACA passed.

You know what the min wage is every modern country BUT us? LIVING! With universal health care? Thanks to dupess like you and the GOP, not here.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Utter bullshit.  Turn on HGTV sometime and  look for show called House Hunters International.  Look  at the  apartments they have.  They look like projects we have here.  Look at what it costs to buy a home or rent an apartment.  Look at the tiny homes these  people live in.  Americans  move there every single day with no problems. 

So quit  making  excuses. Love this country or leave it, or at the very least, quit  telling  us how wonderful these other countries are to ours.  You have no Fn idea how lucky you are to be born  here.  People try to sneak in  here in makeshift  rafts, in the back  of tractor-trailers, in airport landing gear, and on  a few occasions,  boxed up and shipped  here like a piece of furniture.  People risk life and  health just to make it past  our borders to escape these  so wonderful  countries  you speak  of.  

I'm  sick  of it already.


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## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

GoDemocratic said:


> The conservative policies always result in recessions. Every recession we ever had was presided over by a
> Republican President starting with Herbert Hoover in 1929. The only one that did not have a recession was
> Reagan, but, if you are old enough you might remember that interest rates were over 18% trying to hold back
> an overheated economy. Only when Clinton became President were the reigns held back sufficiently. Still, Reagan
> ...


Reagan gave us the S+L scandal/bust and tripled the debt in good times...a scam except to dupes...


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

I'm very grateful to be here, but I know we're not perfect and can always do things better. If another country does something better than what we do, then I think we should try to be better too.


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> GoDemocratic said:
> 
> 
> > The conservative policies always result in recessions. Every recession we ever had was presided over by a
> ...



He also began the erosion of the middle class and it helped when he dramatically decreased the top tax bracket.


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## Markle (Apr 25, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> The drug war could be abolished in five minutes or less, by executive order.



Why do you advocate for more kids to become addicted to drugs?  How is that a good thing?

Why do you advocate for more kids to damage their brains by smoking marijuana?

How does any of that benefit America except for creating far more of our population dependent on drugs and society to exist?


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## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > The drug war could be abolished in five minutes or less, by executive order.
> ...



Absolutely no kids should have access to drugs or marijuana, just like alcohol is off limits to them.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Yeah, right.  That's why Europe's unemployment rate is 8.2% today.  That's  down  from 11%  in  2013.  

So move to any of these place that have a higher  minimum wage and universal healthcare.  But  when you need serious medical procedures to save your  life, don't come back here to get it.  Deal with a government  surgeon  who  is paid crap for  what  he does.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> I'm very grateful to be here, but I know we're not perfect and can always do things better. If another country does something better than what we do, then I think we should try to be better too.



No, if you think another country is doing better, you should move to that country and try it out first before you ruin things here.


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## Thinker101 (Apr 25, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



Dang, you're still here.  Figured you'd be halfway to "Freedonia" by now.


----------



## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > I'm very grateful to be here, but I know we're not perfect and can always do things better. If another country does something better than what we do, then I think we should try to be better too.
> ...



No. If I think another country is doing better I will support it to come here because I want my country to do better. If certain elements of another country are better than they are here, I propose to bring said elements here.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


I watch it all the time. None of those American people work there and you'll notice one of them is a native if they do work. If they are American and DO work there it's since they work for an American company who needs them there. In real life it's people who are taken by surprise. People from the EU and Australia/NZ aren't lining up to come here. Yes it's a great country but 40 years ago we had a much happier one with a healthy middle class. 

Just relax will you lol. I'm not going anywhere but I will continue to tell you about your ignorance.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


Halfway to Sweden would be about right. Only gd chart they had. Not the US/Reaganist giveaway to the rich chart we have now.  Freedonia is ridiculous, of course. Sorry to freak you dupes out.  On the other hand, Fredonia may be a free NYS college 70 miles down the road soon.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> GoDemocratic said:
> 
> 
> > The conservative policies always result in recessions. Every recession we ever had was presided over by a
> ...


It was actually a depression without trillions in bailouts and assistance for victims in all modern countries- thank God for Dems and socialists there. Africa and the ME are still in a depression- great for chaos everywhere. Great job, GOP.


----------



## Markle (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> I will say that I think corporate welfare is often largely ineffective.



What do you consider corporate welfare?


----------



## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > I will say that I think corporate welfare is often largely ineffective.
> ...



Subsidies and handouts to large organizations.


----------



## Markle (Apr 25, 2017)

bendog said:


> Heck nobody wants em on welfare.



Many of those do want to be on welfare.  It is a career choice.


----------



## Markle (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Subsidies and handouts to large organizations.



What subsidies and handouts to large corporations?  Specifics, please.


----------



## Markle (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Well I have a friend who smokes pot. I think we ought to be helping those who use drugs with treatment rather than ruining them. I am for amnesty for non-violent drug users and believe releasing them would be a good thing. That way we won't have to release all the worst criminals and won't have to worry about the overpopulation problem.



Are you familiar with drug courts?  In fact, Miami Florida is where they originated


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > The drug war could be abolished in five minutes or less, by executive order.
> ...


Pot is not addictive and NO ONE is taking about kids getting it. It's also proven they already DO have it lol and legalization cuts their possession of it.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


No, it's 8.2% because W BOOOSH and the GOP wrecked their economies and they don't have fracking to bring them back duh.


----------



## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Subsidies and handouts to large organizations.
> ...



Perks, for example. It's in exchange for lining the pockets of politicians.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > I'm very grateful to be here, but I know we're not perfect and can always do things better. If another country does something better than what we do, then I think we should try to be better too.
> ...


You CAN'T MOVE THERE, dumbass.


----------



## IResist (Apr 25, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Well I have a friend who smokes pot. I think we ought to be helping those who use drugs with treatment rather than ruining them. I am for amnesty for non-violent drug users and believe releasing them would be a good thing. That way we won't have to release all the worst criminals and won't have to worry about the overpopulation problem.
> ...



The way I see it, there ought to be societal consequences to drug abuse the way there is to alcoholism.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > I will say that I think corporate welfare is often largely ineffective.
> ...


Oh christ, corporations used to pay 30% of all taxes in the 50's, now 10%.
Amount of Revenue by Source


----------



## Markle (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Yet Prohibition is the only Amendment to be repealed.
> 
> I am for full legalization. Period. *It's also a good way to fix our prison problem.*



Not true.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

Markle said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> > Heck nobody wants em on welfare.
> ...


Only in dupe world.


----------



## Markle (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



Since you state that you know nothing about drug abuse, why not educate yourself?  Find an NA group in your area and find out when they are having an open meeting.  You could also find an Al-Anon chapter and attend some of their meetings.  They are made up of the family and loved ones of alcoholics and drug addicts and how better to cope with the issue.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Yet Prohibition is the only Amendment to be repealed.
> ...


What % are non-violent pot and drug people?


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Let's stick with pot.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Their doctors do fine and don't have huge loans to pay back. I'm staying here, asshole. lol


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 25, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



So you can't give one example of a Democratic getting a poor black family off the public dole? But I thought the Democratic Party is pure and noble? Lol! They are the rich, helping the rich!


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 25, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



When the Dems held Congress they didn't help poor blacks get rich, the Democratic Party did nothing and it continues. The poor blacks will continue to vote for the Democrats, no need to help them out of the ghetto.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 25, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



And they haven't helped poor blacks out of property, sad, very sad.


----------



## Markle (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Pot does not make people violent or commit crimes.



The brain continues to develop into a person's 20's.  Marijuana affects that development.


LIVING
*Recreational Pot Use Harmful to Young People's Brains*
Randye Hoder
Apr 15, 2014

For those young people — and their parents — who think that smoking pot in moderation isn’t harmful, it’s time to think again.

A study released this week by researchers from Northwestern University’s Feinberg School of Medicine and Harvard Medical School has found that 18- to 25-year-olds who smoke marijuana only recreationally showed significant abnormalities in the brain.

Recreational Pot Use Harmful to Young People's Brains


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


MANY in Dem cities with high min wages...NY getting free U's...


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 25, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Pot does not make people violent or commit crimes.
> ...


That's why 21 is the legal age.


----------



## Markle (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> The second Franklin quote is out of context. Congress sure votes themselves money a lot and there was even an amendment in response to that.



We have reached the second quote.  We are at or near the tipping point.  If you aren't aware of people on the government dole voting themselves more benefits, you are only kidding yourself.


----------



## Markle (Apr 25, 2017)

IResist said:


> Like it or not, there are aspects of socialism in this country.



For example?


----------



## Markle (Apr 26, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> What % are non-violent pot and drug people?



What are Drug Courts? | NADCP


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 26, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Minimum wage is getting people out of property? Lol! Try again, because you have named one program yet that has moved them off public assistance.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



And they are in major debt as well.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



Of course you're going to stay here......hypocrite.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Oh!  Fracking, now is it?  It's what we've been  telling you socialists all along.  It's lower fuel prices that helped the economy, not some big eared clown spending a trilling dollars on unions.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Utter BS.  Pot is addictive to some people.  I've lost friends over  it.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



No company gets a handout from government unless they are about to collapse.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



My ignorance?  If you do watch that show (which you obviously don't lying liberal) and don't see people moving and working there, then you must have A.D.D or something.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



What works  in some places might not work here.  What may work here might not work in other places.  

It all looks good on  paper, but in practice, it just isn't the  right way to go.  You can't read the  positives about a program or policy without looking at the ramifications.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Yes, imagine Barrys economy without the huge Republican fracking/ horizontal drilling revolution. It was the worst recovery since the Great Depression. Without the oil revolution would've been the worst recovery in world history..remember the summer of recovery and cash for clunkers program ???


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe instead of telling us to leave for another country we can take positive elements from another country and apply them here to make this country better.
> ...


Good thing Congress is trying to," hold the (fiscal) line "regarding being extorted for wall money.


----------



## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Key word is might. Not an absolute. Adopt it and make it better. It's worth a shot.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...


Absolutely deadly insane liberals would have us adopt socialism in healthcare and every industry even though it killed 120 million


----------



## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Socialized healthcare is how we ensure everyone is treated. It's an irrational fear of socialism without realizing socialist programs and services are around us in our everyday lives.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 26, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?


 Power is the only thing that matters to the leaders seeking power . What matters to their supporters or enablers is either getting the promised welfare or encouraging those who seek power to give the crippling welfare.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 26, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


dear, in modern first world economies, socialism is like Palmolive, "you are soaking in it".

Our federal Government is largest purchaser of drugs in the entire world.  

Only in right wing fantasy, does any true form of Capitalism, exist in our Republic, since 1929.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...


We already have a form of (emergency) health care.  It is probably the most expensive option.  

In my opinion, it is about optimizing social safety nets to lower costs.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 26, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...




nothing run by the government results in lower costs,  nothing!


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 26, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...


trying to be right, at least, twice a day?

We already have a form of (emergency) health care. It is probably the most expensive option.

Is socialized medicine, less expensive than that?


----------



## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

We saw how high rates were before the ACA.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> We saw how high rates were before the ACA.


How much coverage was there before?


----------



## regent (Apr 26, 2017)

As an ex-president can Obama live anywhere he wants in Chicago or must he live in the black belt?


----------



## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > We saw how high rates were before the ACA.
> ...



Obviously not as much since ACA expanded coverage.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



No it is not.  Once you invent a new freebie, it's virtually impossible to get rid of.  

It's what I call my Ray in Cleveland's raccoon theory:

You see a raccoon digging in a garbage can and decide to give him a nice meaty ham  bone.  The animal eats in delight knowing you gave him the bone.  Now try taking it away from him and see what happens to you.  

Of course the animal would not have starved to death without your gift, he would have found a different source of food.  

Democrats are well aware of my raccoon theory although they might think of it in different ways, but they understand that no politician wants to get their hand bit up right or left.  


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


----------



## Markle (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> Socialized healthcare is how we ensure everyone is treated. It's an irrational fear of socialism without realizing socialist programs and services are around us in our everyday lives.



Sock, where?  What do you consider to be the socialist programs and services around us every day?

People joining together to pay for a service is NOT Socialism.

Do you know the definition of Socialism?


----------



## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Yes it is worth a shot, especially if formal think tanks and academic researchers rank our systems behind other world systems. It's time to catch up and join the rest of the civilized world, in which it isn't a freebie if it's publicly funded.


----------



## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Socialized healthcare is how we ensure everyone is treated. It's an irrational fear of socialism without realizing socialist programs and services are around us in our everyday lives.
> ...



So public ownership in which we all pay taxes into something and fund it so all of us could use it sounds like socialism to me.


----------



## Markle (Apr 26, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> How much coverage was there before?



Why do you think this quote is funny?

*"nothing run by the government results in lower costs, nothing!"*

I'm sure congress would be interested so they could expand on whatever that service is doing!


----------



## Markle (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> So public ownership in which we all pay taxes into something and fund it so all of us could use it sounds like socialism to me.



Which proves you do not know the meaning of the word.

Sock, do yourself a favor and educate yourself even just slightly would help you.

To learn what is Socialism, see Venezuela or North Korea.


----------



## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > So public ownership in which we all pay taxes into something and fund it so all of us could use it sounds like socialism to me.
> ...



I am against both total socialism and total capitalism and would like to see middle ground.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...


hahahahahahaha how much tax do the poor pay into your new system?


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 26, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Because the GOP has done nothing but block and cut such programs since Nixon duhhh. The stimulus infrastructure jobs got many out of poverty temporarily...and Obama did get college loans a bit cheaper. Otherwise, Great job, GOP! BTW, you're a brainwashed fool of the greedy idiot rich...


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


Many giant corps make huge profits and pay no taxes. That's the bother.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



If you're talking about healthcare, the only reason we are behind others  is because not everybody is covered.  As for quality, people come here from all over the world to get our quality of care. 

I'm a patient at the Cleveland Clinic.  Let me tell you, when you walk into the Clinic, you feel like the foreigner.  

There is a trade off when you go to socialized healthcare.  We pay the most but we also get the most. 


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 26, 2017)

jc456 said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


They pay 17-18% now in all taxes- count fees and they're getting close to 20% if they're working. More than many rich, who average 28% and less than the upper middle class. Great job, GOP and dupes...

Socialism is FAIR, democratic capitalism, dupe. See Scandinavia, original, EU, OZ, NZ and the 
US- tho ours is a feqqed up pander to the rich GOP mess. See sig.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



Paying less in taxes is different than getting a handout unless you're one of those who believe that all money belongs to government, and whatever they allow you to keep is a gift from them to you.  


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


----------



## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



I can also provide a source which doesn't portray our system favorably versus others.

My impression is that if it was up to some people on here, there would be:

No unions
No Social Security 
No Medicare
No Medicaid
No protection for pre-existing conditions 
No consumer protection 
No environmental protection 
Complete deregulations
No welfare/social programs/safety
An increase to an already bloated defense budget and caving in the the military industrial complex.

I'm just thankful those aren't in charge.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Yeah, we get the most death, the most bankruptcies and suffering, and the most worry of any subject and most people going to Thailand. The rest of the world can't believe you dupes put up with this crap.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Nobody believes all money belongs to the gov't, dupe. When everyone pays about the same % and the middle class and the country are falling apart, and the richest keep  basically all the new wealth, SOMETHING IS WRONG. Duh.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


Unless you're superrich or married to a citizen or lucky, you can't move anywhere with a fairer economy than here, as I said. Are you capable of learning anything, superdupe? And as I said, I love the USA, and no doubt more than you a-hole RWer dupes who are always with the "love it or leave it" when some one points out what ignorant racist jackasses you are. We've fallen behind the rest of the modern world the last 35 years under you Reaganist a-hole lairs, cheats, and dupes... every one on here is an ignorant dupe.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


BS. You dumped them out of ignorance and intolerance typical of hater dupes.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


It was first the stimulus, then fracking. Can you keep 2 things in your tiny mind at once? Like the GOP is a disastrous disgrace and you're an ignorant dupe? And we're damn lucky to have these advantages over all other countries to get us out of the ditches the GOP drives us into every chance they get?


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 26, 2017)

Markle said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > So public ownership in which we all pay taxes into something and fund it so all of us could use it sounds like socialism to me.
> ...


Anecdotal examples of extreme forms of socialism is not very convincing.

The US has a mixed-market economy.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 26, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



You are an idiot! I recognize that neither party is for the poor, you are foolish enough to believe the democrats actually have helped people get out of poverty and they have done nothing, all they give are more programs that keep them poor and voting for Democrats. 

The stimulus did nothing to get anyone out of poverty temporarily, you are dead wrong!

How did loans become cheaper? The interest rate? Big deal as the price of college continues to grow and grow and grow. So more of the left claiming crap that really hasn't helped with much, thanks for nothing! 

So far you have offered no proof that over the last 50 years that the Democratic party has done anything to get poor people out of poverty. 

Out of the last 84 years the Democratic Party has control the House and the Senate for 60 years. In the same time frame the Democrats have been in control of the Presidency 48 years. So, you are really full of it because even with the numbers favoring the Democrats, not one bill has been introduced that moves those from poverty out of poverty. Spare the pointing of fingers and take responsibility your party that loves that rich and created the largest gap between the poor and the wealthy, which was over the last eight years.


----------



## Papageorgio (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



Funny impression, I don't know of any on this board that advocate all of that. Maybe you watch and read too much propaganda.


----------



## danielpalos (Apr 26, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Thank you for your support of democrat policy regarding a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



Thankful?  Now take a look at your list and tell  me we're not too dependent on the federal government.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 26, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




No.


----------



## Redfish (Apr 26, 2017)

regent said:


> As an ex-president can Obama live anywhere he wants in Chicago or must he live in the black belt?



how about his home country of Kenya?


----------



## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



My list tells me I'm glad the federal government has gotten involved.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



so why not tell us the best example of govt involvement if you dare??


----------



## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



All of the above are great examples, in my opinion and getting universal healthcare would add to that wonderful list.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> getting universal healthcare would add to that wonderful list.



how is social security wonderful when you get dog food money after giving them 15% of your life time income that would normally be worth $1.4 million??? See why we say liberalism is based in ignorance>?


----------



## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > getting universal healthcare would add to that wonderful list.
> ...



It's something we have for us later in lives. Our hard earned money that we could collect and fall back on when we near retirement age.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...


actually the question is, later in life do you want dog food money from liberal swine or $1.4 million dollars that is rightfully yours???


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 26, 2017)

JQPublic1 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > JQPublic1 said:
> ...


So what you're saying is trickle up poor

.


----------



## Wyatt earp (Apr 26, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...



The liberals want you to die


We have heard it so many times


.


----------



## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...



It's money I'm going to get. Money I paid into. If there still is Social Security since I'm about 40 years away from retirement. They tell me how much money they take out on each check that I'll get back.


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## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

bear513 said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



Not at all. I want programs that are going to benefit people who need them for one way or another.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...



Translation you want other people's money

✓


.


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## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

bear513 said:


> IResist said:
> 
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> > bear513 said:
> ...



For what it's worth I am not on welfare but I know social programs and benefits are essential to who we are as a nation.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
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Your counting on that? 

40 years?


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> bear513 said:
> 
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> > IResist said:
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You're a female... Carry on I will Back off

.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> It's money I'm going to get. Money I paid into.



totally stupid and liberal as always. The govt is $20 trillion in debt and projected to be $100 million in debt by time you retire. Would you rather put your 15% in a private account that govt liberals can not touch to yield $1.4 million or pray the govt stays solvent enough to give you your dog food money when you retire. What is your favorite brand of dog food??


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> For what it's worth I am not on welfare but I know social programs and benefits are essential to who we are as a nation.



actually our founders came here to be free not to be leeches!!!


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
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40 years?   Then allow me to suggest something.

Take your deductions on paper and give that to a reputable investment company, and ask them at that rate of the deduction, calculate how much would you be worth in 40 years?  Take the  quote they give you, divide that up by the months of the average American lifespan.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
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> > IResist said:
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Because they relieve you of responsibilities?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

Redfish said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > As an ex-president can Obama live anywhere he wants in Chicago or must he live in the black belt?
> ...



He could  share a hut with his brother.


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## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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You don't know me. You know nothing of me. Sometimes I might need this and other times they are beneficial for the better of society.


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## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > For what it's worth I am not on welfare but I know social programs and benefits are essential to who we are as a nation.
> ...



The America of the founders from the 18th century is not the America of the 21st century.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> bear513 said:
> 
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> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
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To keep them at poverty level. Not to move them from the public dole to self sustaining. Liberal programs keep them stuck in a poor pattern.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
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> > IResist said:
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But we do.


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## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> IResist said:
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Not all of these keep them there. They are for certain reasons and to help people during certain times.


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## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

bear513 said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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Except you don't. You only know me through this forum, not my personal life and story or what I'm doing with myself.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
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So?  What's your point?  Do you think that we are less responsible, less capable, lazier than our founders or the people of that time? 

And if you do believe that, how did we get that way?


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
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Your trying to get money for nothing

No,?


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## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
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My point is that we have evolved as a nation for the better. This isn't black and white.


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## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

bear513 said:


> IResist said:
> 
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> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
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Again, make any assumptions you want. You do not know who I am and maybe I'm advocating for some of this stuff even if I don't need it myself.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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I know your stance on social issues.  I think I  know plenty about you just from  that.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> bear513 said:
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I can figure out a poster in a heartbeat


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## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
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You know my stance on social issues, but you don't know my own story or my life. Just because I advocate legalizing drugs doesn't mean I've ever tried them or ever will try them.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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So by evolved, you mean more dependent on the federal government?  If so, I guess you got me there.


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## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

bear513 said:


> IResist said:
> 
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That is what you say, but you are assuming the worst out of me, which is just not true. Even if I needed a safety net if I needed to, it is humane and necessary to help those through tough times.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> bear513 said:
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Then pay for it your self,?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> Papageorgio said:
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Right, like the times you don't feel like supporting  yourself.


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## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
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> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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We are more evolved that the government does a better job looking out for and serving its people and guaranteeing protections for them. Thank goodness for the programs that help certain people.


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## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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These are generalizations and you are talking in absolutes. What you should be doing is looking at things on a case by case basis. That is better and much more efficient and if you looked at things case by case, I'll likely even agree with you on some cases.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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That's exactly what I said, more government dependency.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> bear513 said:
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If you want help and need a few bucks just ask... Don't steal it from me..


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## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
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> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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It's not dependency. It's people utilizing programs that help them and that isn't a bad thing. The government hasn't always done good things, but they've also done a lot of good for helping out the people at home. Serving the people is an obligation of the government.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
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> > IResist said:
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What some cases? 

What  is poverty?  Poverty is the situation of having little  money or no money. 
What  is  the  solution  to  poverty?  More money. 
How does one acquire more money?  Get a job and avoid huge expenses like  having children you can't  afford.

Now, this is exactly what I did in  life.  Please explain to me how others cannot do what I did.


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## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

bear513 said:


> IResist said:
> 
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> > bear513 said:
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Tax dollars are going to go somewhere and someone else is bound to use them and benefit from them one way or another. That's how it works. You have no control over it.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



THAT IS DEPENDENCY!!!!

 When you rely on others to give you money, housing, healthcare, food, you are dependent on them.


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## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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As I said earlier in this thread, jobs are ideal, but I'm unapologetic about believing people legitimately struggling should receive assistance and a safety net through hard times should they need one. I will always believe in that. Don't forget there's also the working poor who get assistance as well.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
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> > IResist said:
> ...



When has the government helped people by taking money?

Be specific


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## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
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> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



That is how we are more evolved because the government has often looked out for us that we the people enjoy certain programs from. This country is mixed and thankfully we have neither total capitalism nor total socialism. It shouldn't be looked down upon or justify calling people pejoratives.


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## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

bear513 said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Spending through tax dollars to provide for social programs for the common good which has helped people's lives and the quality of said programs to assist others.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> bear513 said:
> 
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> > IResist said:
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Assist?  Or  give them the option to not work and  not try harder?  That's the problem.  These wonderful social programs also promote irresponsibility.  Have as many kids as you like.......don't worry.....taxpayers will take care of them.  Pissed off at your boss?  No worry, quit your job and go on welfare.   And don't worry about getting  medical care.  If you don't have anything, medical  care  is FREE!  Just ask your  working  neighbor  who  is paying  for it but  can't  afford healthcare insurance for himself!


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



Of  course they are enjoying  those  programs. Somebody else is paying  for them.  

And I  noticed you didn't answer my question how what I  did can't be done  by others.


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## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...



Let me break this down for you by examples.

Person who is able to work but doesn't want to and is too lazy should get off the couch and go job hunting without a chance to abuse the system. You don't get to quit your job, do nothing and make no effort to work whatsoever.

Person who wants to work, but is unable to find work, gets laid off, is disabled and thus physically incapable to do work, person who has fallen on tough times, person who is working a job, maybe two and still needs extra help, go right ahead and get some assistance. I don't mind and the government can afford it.

That's my perspective. I have broken it down into different classifications.


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## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Maybe even they themselves are paying into some of these programs, and these programs aren't always a bad thing.

Maybe not everybody has the same circumstances you do.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



I wasn't born Rich I earned it.. And at this point it , it doesn't mean a thing


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## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

bear513 said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Good for you, but that's no reason for you to look down upon those who need help during tough times.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
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But I never do, I was one of them..


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## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

bear513 said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...



I am legitimately happy for you and hope others who are struggling do the same and lift themselves up. I just would like to ask you to look at things on a case by case basis instead of grouping everybody in the same boat and casting stones.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 26, 2017)

bear513 said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...



I knew what it was like, your preaching to the wrong person here.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> bear513 said:
> 
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> > IResist said:
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Shit don't do that to me


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



Okay, then how are their circumstances different than mine?  What do I have that they didn't have?


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## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



As I pointed out on the previous page, maybe some people want to work but can't find work, or maybe they are physically unable to do so. That does exist and should be no reason to deny them assistance.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2017)

IResist said:


> Let me break this down for you by examples.
> 
> Person who is able to work but doesn't want to and is too lazy should get off the couch and go job hunting without a chance to abuse the system. You don't get to quit your job, do nothing and make no effort to work whatsoever.



Yes you do.  People do it all the time. That's the problem here. 



IResist said:


> Person who wants to work, but is unable to find work, gets laid off, is disabled and thus physically incapable to do work,



We take care of those who are truly disabled,  and many who are not disabled but claim to be. 

Unable to find work?  There is all kinds  of work out there.  In my industry, we need over 60,000 drivers that companies can't find. They are turning to foreigners who can't  read or speak a word of English to come here and take these jobs Americans don't want.  



IResist said:


> person who has fallen on tough times



Such as?  Everybody should be prepared  for tough times.  



IResist said:


> person who is working a job, maybe two and still needs extra help,



Then  is  it income or spending that's their problem?  How many kids  do they have??



IResist said:


> I don't mind and the government can afford it.



They can?   Last I read, we were 20 trillion in debt and  growing.


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## IResist (Apr 26, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > Let me break this down for you by examples.
> ...



Agreed. That is a problem.

So you agree we take care of those who are truly disabled. That's progress.

Have you considered people make serious efforts to find work and are actively looking but still might need help?

People fall on tough times and it can be random and unexpected.

Maybe they aren't spending it on stuff they shouldn't and live from paycheck to paycheck. If they have kids, why punish the kid(s)?

Yes. They can. Last I checked people were still receiving assistance and that debt is always growing.


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## danielpalos (Apr 26, 2017)

bear513 said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...


Only for a Peoples' Wall; because the right hates the poor.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 26, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...


Not me your the one who hates the poor...


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## Markle (Apr 26, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Anecdotal examples of extreme forms of socialism is not very convincing.
> 
> The US has a mixed-market economy.



Amusing.  Predictable response from a far left Progressive.  Socialism has failed wherever it has been tried but the Progressives say YES, that is true, but "they" just didn't do it the RIGHT WAY.

Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea are all examples of Socialistic countries.  Nothing extreme about them except the eventual results.  SHARED MISERY.


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## Markle (Apr 27, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> IResist said:
> 
> 
> > getting universal healthcare would add to that wonderful list.
> ...



Fourteen percent came about in 1985 and fifteen in 1989.  However, the maximum income you paid those taxes on were just under $40,000 in 1985.  Today, $118,500.


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## Markle (Apr 27, 2017)

IResist said:


> It's money I'm going to get. Money I paid into. If there still is Social Security since I'm about 40 years away from retirement. They tell me how much money they take out on each check that I'll get back.



If you retire in 40 years, you best start your own aggressive retirement plan yesterday.


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## Markle (Apr 27, 2017)

IResist said:


> The America of the founders from the 18th century is not the America of the 21st century.



But we are fortunate that out Constitution lays out basic guidelines and not a page of instructions.  Thank you, God we are always blessed by your wisdom.


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## danielpalos (Apr 27, 2017)

bear513 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...


A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, instead of a wall, to prove we don't hate the poor!


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## danielpalos (Apr 27, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Anecdotal examples of extreme forms of socialism is not very convincing.
> ...


You don't understand the concept.  True AnCaps fail more often than socialist economies.


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## Redfish (Apr 27, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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  $15 minimum wage will reduce the number of jobs, and put more people on unemployment and welfare.


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## danielpalos (Apr 27, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
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Capitalism has a natural rate of unemployment; not enough, corporate raiding in it for you?

In any case, short run changes are expected; in the long run, more money being circulated means more demand which means more labor will be required.

And,

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage competes favorably with the cost of social services.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 27, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


Then why do you live here?


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 27, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



So you want to get one more measly buck an hour more?


LMFAO


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 27, 2017)

bear513 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...




Just $1.00 more? 

How would that help you?


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## Redfish (Apr 27, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




you just don't get it.   If McDonalds had to raise its pay to $15, what do you think would happen?    They would have three choices:  1 raise prices, 2 hire fewer workers, 3 close their doors. 

If they raise prices their sales go down and they don't need as many workers
If they hire fewer workers, or automate more there are fewer jobs
if they shut the doors there are no jobs

You libs just never think these things through.


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## danielpalos (Apr 27, 2017)

bear513 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


Because, I believe that socialists should merely learn how to use capitalism for _all_ of its worth.  Unlike the right wing; who like to complain about taxes instead of going to Mogadishu.


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## danielpalos (Apr 27, 2017)

bear513 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
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You don't believe in capitalism and "working your way up"?  

you can learn how to cook and become a "chief corporal" in the kitchen, for as long as you want, on true unemployment compensation in our at-will employment States.


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## danielpalos (Apr 27, 2017)

bear513 said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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By having True Faith in Capitalism and practicing attaining Perfection in Money Management, as a Holy Grail.


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## danielpalos (Apr 27, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


The dollar menu will not double; unlike labor's pay.  That is what will happen.  Did you not read US history and how good capitalists can double wages and achieve gains from efficiency?  Henry Ford was your capital, "pathfinder".


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## jc456 (Apr 27, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...


so since when is  17% greater than 28%?  I'm sorry, can you be a little more coherent and understand values?  can you try again?

BTW, dining and toy purchases alone, the rich pay more in taxes.


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## danielpalos (Apr 27, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
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so what; don't blame the poor for being better at tax avoidance, than the rich.


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## Redfish (Apr 27, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




wrong, they either raise their prices, reduce the number of employees, or go out of business.   There are no other options. 

the "gains from efficiency" occur when humans are replaced by machines.   In case you don't know it, machines are not paid an hourly wage.


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## Redfish (Apr 27, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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LOL,  the tax code exempts the poor from paying taxes.  they are not better at tax avoidance,  what a dumb statement.


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## francoHFW (Apr 27, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > jc456 said:
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Romney paid 9-12%, and many other rich pay less than 17% duh...The rich poor gap has NEVER been bigger after 35 years of Reaganist tax policy, and now ANOTHER giant cut for the rich. Only brainwashing bs propaganda makes this possible...


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## francoHFW (Apr 27, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
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Exempts them from FED INCOME TAXES ONLY, dupe. There you go again. Look up brainwashed. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjbo4W8lsXTAhXh5oMKHfePBy8QFgg4MAY&url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/09/19/heres-why-the-47-percent-argument-is-an-abuse-of-tax-data/&usg=AFQjCNE_8LZl_VB-o4FAbNsJrxLxLCPy8g&sig2=S1pMazGUSOJIVx4ZUUlnYg
*The one tax graph you really need to know*




By Ezra Klein September 19, 2012

At the heart of the debate over "the 47 percent" is an awful abuse of tax data.

This entire conversation is the result of a (largely successful) effort to redefine the debate over taxes from "how much in taxes do you pay" to "how much in federal income taxes do you pay?" This is good framing if you want to cut taxes on the rich. It's bad framing if you want to have even a basic understanding of who pays how much in taxes.

There's a reason some would prefer that more limited conversation. For most Americans, payroll and state and local taxes make up the majority of their tax bill. The federal income tax, by contrast, is our most progressive tax -- it's the tax we've designed to place the heaviest burden on the rich while bypassing the poor. And we've done that, again, because the working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.

But most people don't know very much about the tax code. And the federal income tax is still our most famous tax. So when they hear that half of Americans aren't paying federal income taxes, they're outraged -- even if they're among the folks who have a net negative tax burden! After all, they know they're paying taxes, and there's no reason for normal human beings to assume that the taxes getting taken out of their paycheck every week and some of the taxes they pay at the end of the year aren't classified as "federal income taxes."

Confining the discussion to the federal income tax plays another role, too: It makes the tax code look much more progressive than it actually is.

Take someone who makes $4 million dollars a year and someone who makes $40,000 a year. The person making $4 million dollars, assuming he's not doing some Romney-esque planning, is paying a 35 percent tax on most of that money. The person making $40,000 is probably paying no income tax at all. So that makes the system look really unfair to the rich guy.

That's the basic analysis of the 47 percent line. And it's a basic analysis that serves a purpose: It makes further tax cuts for the rich sound more reasonable.

But what if we did the same thing for the payroll tax? Remember, the payroll tax only applies to first $110,100 or so, our rich friends is only paying payroll taxes on 2.7 percent of his income. The guy making $40,000? He's paying payroll taxes on every dollar of his income. Now who's not getting a fair shake?

Which is why, if you want to understand who's paying what in taxes, you don't want to just look at federal income taxes, or federal payroll taxes, or state sales taxes -- you want to look at total taxes. And, luckily, the tax analysis group Citizens for Tax Justice keeps those numbers. So here is total taxes -- which includes corporate taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and more -- paid by different income groups and broken into federal and state and local burdens:









That's really what the American tax system looks like: Not 47 percent paying nothing, but everybody paying something, and most Americans paying between 25 percent and 30 percent of their income -- which is, by the way, a lot more the 13.9 percent Mitt Romney paid in 2011*.


B) True


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## Markle (Apr 27, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> You don't understand the concept. True AnCaps fail more often than socialist economies.



What socialist countries have succeeded?


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## jc456 (Apr 27, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


it's called a with-holding tax to be accurate.  So the guy making 40k pays into Federal Tax, SS, Medicare and state taxes, (if in a state that has state tax), along with insurance.  And the only federal dollars in that, outside SS and Medicare, the 40k a year guy gets back after April 15th.  All of it.  So, the Tax Trump is working on is the Federal Tax, not SS, not Medicare yet, doesn't have anything to do with State nor insurance.  So, how is it the 40K a year guy is affected more than the rich dude again?


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## francoHFW (Apr 27, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


All states have taxes- there you go again with income tax brainwashed obsession. These graphs includes refunds. Enjoy the state tax hikes that will immediately follow the Trump tax cuts and will KILL the nonrich AGAIN. Then MOST of the middle class will pay a higher % than the RICHEST. Great job!!


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## jc456 (Apr 27, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


Tennessee, Florida, Texas and others do not have state taxes.  sorry fella, you're coming up short.

from Wikipedia:

*United States*




"Payroll taxes were among the most regressive in 2010.
See also: Taxation in the United States and Federal Insurance Contributions Act tax
In the United States, payroll taxes are assessed by the federal government, some of the fifty states (Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming do not have state income tax; New Hampshire and Tennessee only tax income from interest and dividends)"

Gd I wish you fking libturds would learn about your own country.


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## Markle (Apr 27, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> The dollar menu will not double; unlike labor's pay. That is what will happen. Did you not read US history and how good capitalists can double wages and achieve gains from efficiency? Henry Ford was your capital, "pathfinder".



Fast food restaurants at $15.00 per hour.





You have no comprehension about what Henry Ford accomplished.


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## francoHFW (Apr 27, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > You don't understand the concept. True AnCaps fail more often than socialist economies.
> ...


Scandinavia, original EU, Canada, Oz, NZ, Japan, and the US under ACA- tho the greedy a-hole lying GOP will try to screw that up, AND the world economy AGAIN. Thanks and great job, GOP swine and dupes (who don't know what socialism IS)..


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## francoHFW (Apr 27, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


So they don't have property tax, sales tax etc etc etc? DUHHHH. YOU ARE BRAINWASHED to only think of income tax, dupe.


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## jc456 (Apr 27, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


no, those aren't in withholding taxes from an employer.  That, stupid ass, was the discussion.  So, now, can you get back on topic and answer my original question? cat got your fingers?


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## Markle (Apr 27, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Scandinavia, original EU, Canada, Oz, NZ, Japan, and the US under ACA-



You're a fool, which we all know.

NONE of those countries are Socialist.

See North Korea, Venezuela, and Cuba.


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## jc456 (Apr 27, 2017)

Markle said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Scandinavia, original EU, Canada, Oz, NZ, Japan, and the US under ACA-
> ...


ahhh man, you're going to confuse the lad.


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## francoHFW (Apr 27, 2017)

Markle said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Scandinavia, original EU, Canada, Oz, NZ, Japan, and the US under ACA-
> ...


Cuba and NK are communist, you stupid dupe cold war dinosaur. Only ugly American dupes are so dumb. Venezuela was until recently a GOP utopia/oligarchy banana republic then became socialist but is a wreck because of collapsing oil prices and the Booosh World Depression. OTOH, homelessness and illiteracy WERE almost wiped out in about 8 years. Socialism since WWII and before has been defined as ALWAYS DEMOCRATIC. Start there, moron.


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## danielpalos (Apr 27, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Only lousy capitalists, say that.  Good capitalists make like Henry Ford, and double wages to achieve gains from productivity.  

Good Capitalists do.

Capital slackers don't, and complain about it.


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## danielpalos (Apr 27, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



Dear, the poor and Mr. Trump pay the Taxes they are legally obligated to pay by law.

The poor are not complaining about taxes; is Mr. Trump not as good as the poor at avoiding taxes.  Why does he need a tax break, if he is so good at avoiding taxes?


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## danielpalos (Apr 27, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > You don't understand the concept. True AnCaps fail more often than socialist economies.
> ...


The US still has the Best form of Socialism in the Entire World.

The rich can get bailed out and keep their multimillion dollar bonuses while on means tested corporate welfare and the poor can still have steak and lobster on their EBT cards.


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## francoHFW (Apr 27, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


No, the discussion was about how much people pay in taxes. The rich, nowhere near enough, the nonrich and YOU, TOO MUCH. Thanks , lying GOP (only income taxes count! LOL) and silly dupes.


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## Markle (Apr 27, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Only lousy capitalists, say that. Good capitalists make like Henry Ford, and double wages to achieve gains from productivity.



As you know and are embarrassed to admit, the doubling of the wages had nothing to do with the increase in productivity.

By inventing the assembly line, Mr. Ford was able to more than double production.  Not only that, but Mr. Ford also lowered the skill level of all the workers making them all easier to replace as well as add more assembly lines easier and faster.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 27, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


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## danielpalos (Apr 27, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Only lousy capitalists, say that. Good capitalists make like Henry Ford, and double wages to achieve gains from productivity.
> ...


Yes, they did; an efficiency wage is what Henry Ford provided, and got more efficiency, as a result.


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## danielpalos (Apr 27, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


How much did Mr. Trump pay in personal income taxes?

Why is it the poor's fault, the one percent are lousy at tax avoidance, and want tax breaks?


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## francoHFW (Apr 27, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


That's income tax again, ferchrissake, the only progressive tax we have, and it appears the only tax Pub dupes can talk about...If you count all taxes, everyone with any income pays around the same %wise, and the richest keep all the new wealth, and the nonrich and the country go to hell...a flat tax is unfair to the nonrich.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 27, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



The 1% have  nothing to do with  what  they are forced to pay in taxes.  Like most people, I'm sure they do what they can to pay the least, but you have to obey the law.

Just like the bottom 45%  of our country that pay no income taxes at all. It's not being  slick, clever, or creative, they just don't  have to pay taxes because of our  laws.

Why do  the one  percent  want a tax break?  Because  they pay over 40% of all collected income taxes.  think of that: one percent of our country are supporting nearly half of those social goodies, our military, and all federal government spending outside of SS and Medicare. 

Instead of insisting they pay more, wouldn't it make more sense to have the bottom 45% pay something into federal income tax?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 27, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



We are not talking about all taxes.  We are talking about income  taxes since  those are the only taxes  that our government uses to spend  on  federal things.   

Social Security  and  Medicare  are  nothing more than  savings accounts for  those who live  into their retirement age.   FICA is  just a cute acronym for Social Security.  In  other  words, those taxes you get back, so it's not really a tax at all.  If you live to the average lifespan in America, you not only  get those taxes back, you get more than you put in.


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## danielpalos (Apr 27, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


dear, the one percent and the poor Only pay the taxes they are legally obligated to pay; don't complain, be Patriotic.


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## Markle (Apr 27, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Yes, they did; an efficiency wage is what Henry Ford provided, and got more efficiency, as a result.



And fewer employees to produce more cars at lower prices.

You're not offering anything more.  Nothing.  You simply want people with no work ethic, experience or education to get more money for not producing on iota more than they did yesterday, just so YOU feel better.

Show us all how they're going to more than double their production as did the workers for Henry Ford and I'm ready to listen.  All you've done is destroy your own pathetic position.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 27, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Yes, they do, that was my point.  It's also my point  that  the  "wealthy" in this country currently pay much  more than their fair share.  They pay for all of us who don't  pay anything at all.


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## francoHFW (Apr 27, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Taxes are taxes, and the more the rich don't pay, the more the nonrich do, and the less there is to invest in America. The middle class and the country are a wreck after 35 years of Reaganism/GOP tax policy.


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## francoHFW (Apr 27, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


The hell they do. Look up brainwashed. All you can talk about is federal income taxes which no longer are enough to keep the country healthy.


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## francoHFW (Apr 27, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwihu-uNlsbTAhXLOSYKHZZQA1oQFgg2MAU&url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/09/19/heres-why-the-47-percent-argument-is-an-abuse-of-tax-data/&usg=AFQjCNE_8LZl_VB-o4FAbNsJrxLxLCPy8g&sig2=xYPpaEMcNvg2lSJR0GnSkw

By Ezra Klein September 19, 2012
At the heart of the debate over "the 47 percent" is an awful abuse of tax data.

This entire conversation is the result of a (largely successful) effort to redefine the debate over taxes from "how much in taxes do you pay" to "how much in federal income taxes do you pay?" This is good framing if you want to cut taxes on the rich. It's bad framing if you want to have even a basic understanding of who pays how much in taxes.

There's a reason some would prefer that more limited conversation. For most Americans, payroll and state and local taxes make up the majority of their tax bill. The federal income tax, by contrast, is our most progressive tax -- it's the tax we've designed to place the heaviest burden on the rich while bypassing the poor. And we've done that, again, because the working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.

But most people don't know very much about the tax code. And the federal income tax is still our most famous tax. So when they hear that half of Americans aren't paying federal income taxes, they're outraged -- even if they're among the folks who have a net negative tax burden! After all, they know they're paying taxes, and there's no reason for normal human beings to assume that the taxes getting taken out of their paycheck every week and some of the taxes they pay at the end of the year aren't classified as "federal income taxes."

Confining the discussion to the federal income tax plays another role, too: It makes the tax code look much more progressive than it actually is.

Take someone who makes $4 million dollars a year and someone who makes $40,000 a year. The person making $4 million dollars, assuming he's not doing some Romney-esque planning, is paying a 35 percent tax on most of that money. The person making $40,000 is probably paying no income tax at all. So that makes the system look really unfair to the rich guy.

That's the basic analysis of the 47 percent line. And it's a basic analysis that serves a purpose: It makes further tax cuts for the rich sound more reasonable.

But what if we did the same thing for the payroll tax? Remember, the payroll tax only applies to first $110,100 or so, our rich friends is only paying payroll taxes on 2.7 percent of his income. The guy making $40,000? He's paying payroll taxes on every dollar of his income. Now who's not getting a fair shake?

Which is why, if you want to understand who's paying what in taxes, you don't want to just look at federal income taxes, or federal payroll taxes, or state sales taxes -- you want to look at total taxes. And, luckily, the tax analysis group Citizens for Tax Justice keeps those numbers. So here is total taxes -- which includes corporate taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and more -- paid by different income groups and broken into federal and state and local burdens:


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 27, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



This has nothing to  do with Reagan you idiot.  Most of  your posts are about how  everything  wrong in  this country had to do with Reagan who  presided under a Democrat  led Congress.  Yet no mention how they went along with Reagan's ideas. 

Sixteen years of Democrat leadership in the White House since Reagan left; a few of those years with  an  all Democrat house,  and they changed  nothing of Reagan's.  

Yes, the Democrat  party is the party of poor excuses, but you take that to  another  level.  

So one more time: the rich  pay the most in federal income tax for the rest of us that don't  pay  or pay very little.  It doesn't  matter how much  they do or  don't pay.  The  non-rich (notice the dash between non  and  rich you fake retired  school  teacher) will not pay anymore.  We just go  deeper into debt which DumBama  doubled in  his eight years in the White House.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 27, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Right, keep posting your crap about total  tax  bill to  avoid talking  about federal income tax. 

Social Security deductions do not fund our military.  Medicare does  not fund welfare, food stamps or education.  Sales taxes do  not make  the payroll of federal  employees.  Only federal income tax does that.


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## francoHFW (Apr 27, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


You are brainwashed. You ignore that we're still under Reaganist tax policy and the NEW BS GOP since has blocked all reform, and don't seem to have heard of the corrupt Booosh DEPRESSION that accounts for the great majority of Obama's debt.
By Ezra Klein September 19, 2012
At the heart of the debate over "the 47 percent" is an awful abuse of tax data.

This entire conversation is the result of a (largely successful) effort to redefine the debate over taxes from "how much in taxes do you pay" to "how much in federal income taxes do you pay?" This is good framing if you want to cut taxes on the rich. It's bad framing if you want to have even a basic understanding of who pays how much in taxes.

There's a reason some would prefer that more limited conversation. For most Americans, payroll and state and local taxes make up the majority of their tax bill. The federal income tax, by contrast, is our most progressive tax -- it's the tax we've designed to place the heaviest burden on the rich while bypassing the poor. And we've done that, again, because the working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.

But most people don't know very much about the tax code. And the federal income tax is still our most famous tax. So when they hear that half of Americans aren't paying federal income taxes, they're outraged -- even if they're among the folks who have a net negative tax burden! After all, they know they're paying taxes, and there's no reason for normal human beings to assume that the taxes getting taken out of their paycheck every week and some of the taxes they pay at the end of the year aren't classified as "federal income taxes."

Confining the discussion to the federal income tax plays another role, too: It makes the tax code look much more progressive than it actually is.

Take someone who makes $4 million dollars a year and someone who makes $40,000 a year. The person making $4 million dollars, assuming he's not doing some Romney-esque planning, is paying a 35 percent tax on most of that money. The person making $40,000 is probably paying no income tax at all. So that makes the system look really unfair to the rich guy.

That's the basic analysis of the 47 percent line. And it's a basic analysis that serves a purpose: It makes further tax cuts for the rich sound more reasonable.

But what if we did the same thing for the payroll tax? Remember, the payroll tax only applies to first $110,100 or so, our rich friends is only paying payroll taxes on 2.7 percent of his income. The guy making $40,000? He's paying payroll taxes on every dollar of his income. Now who's not getting a fair shake?

Which is why, if you want to understand who's paying what in taxes, you don't want to just look at federal income taxes, or federal payroll taxes, or state sales taxes -- you want to look at total taxes. And, luckily, the tax analysis group Citizens for Tax Justice keeps those numbers. So here is total taxes -- which includes corporate taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and more -- paid by different income groups and broken into federal and state and local burdens:


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## Papageorgio (Apr 27, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > IResist said:
> ...



Name the Democratic legislation that has raised the poor out of poverty.


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## francoHFW (Apr 27, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


And not much else, as the rich are making out like bandits, and about to get ANOTHER big tax cut from Trump. Your tax graph is basically a flat tax already. A disgrace.


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## francoHFW (Apr 27, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...


Lately, ACA. Which is also the only thing they've passed in 35 years. We're about to get a banana republic from the GOP. Great job, dupes. Way to keep voting against your own interests, ya brainwashed dopes...


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## francoHFW (Apr 27, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...


What state are you in? In smart states, ACA, the only thing they've passed in 35 years. Reagan got his ridiculously low taxes on the richest and since then, pure obstruction. That's all your GOP masters care about DUHHH. And starting stupid wars and giant corrupt bubbles.


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## danielpalos (Apr 27, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, they did; an efficiency wage is what Henry Ford provided, and got more efficiency, as a result.
> ...


social services cost around fourteen dollars an hour by comparison, anyway.  Labor spending more, will create more demand, in the long run.


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## danielpalos (Apr 27, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Don't blame the poor, the one percent are lousy at tax avoidance.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 27, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



How has ACA raised the poor out of poverty? It hasn't. You keep failing, you keep bring up programs that the poor use and does nothing to raise them from poverty.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 27, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



It hasn't raised the poor out of poverty. The Democrats have held either the House or the Senate in 60 of the last 84 years and the Presidency the majority of those years and have not developed one program to move the poor to the middle class, in fact under Obama, we have had more fall into a poor state and are relying on government subsidies than ever before.


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## francoHFW (Apr 27, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


The hell they are- we have basically a flat tax system, with ANOTHER cut for the rich coming.
By Ezra Klein September 19, 2012 Washington Post
At the heart of the debate over "the 47 percent" is an awful abuse of tax data.

This entire conversation is the result of a (largely successful) effort to redefine the debate over taxes from "how much in taxes do you pay" to "how much in federal income taxes do you pay?" This is good framing if you want to cut taxes on the rich. It's bad framing if you want to have even a basic understanding of who pays how much in taxes.

There's a reason some would prefer that more limited conversation. For most Americans, payroll and state and local taxes make up the majority of their tax bill. The federal income tax, by contrast, is our most progressive tax -- it's the tax we've designed to place the heaviest burden on the rich while bypassing the poor. And we've done that, again, because the working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.

But most people don't know very much about the tax code. And the federal income tax is still our most famous tax. So when they hear that half of Americans aren't paying federal income taxes, they're outraged -- even if they're among the folks who have a net negative tax burden! After all, they know they're paying taxes, and there's no reason for normal human beings to assume that the taxes getting taken out of their paycheck every week and some of the taxes they pay at the end of the year aren't classified as "federal income taxes."

Confining the discussion to the federal income tax plays another role, too: It makes the tax code look much more progressive than it actually is.

Take someone who makes $4 million dollars a year and someone who makes $40,000 a year. The person making $4 million dollars, assuming he's not doing some Romney-esque planning, is paying a 35 percent tax on most of that money. The person making $40,000 is probably paying no income tax at all. So that makes the system look really unfair to the rich guy.

That's the basic analysis of the 47 percent line. And it's a basic analysis that serves a purpose: It makes further tax cuts for the rich sound more reasonable.

But what if we did the same thing for the payroll tax? Remember, the payroll tax only applies to first $110,100 or so, our rich friends is only paying payroll taxes on 2.7 percent of his income. The guy making $40,000? He's paying payroll taxes on every dollar of his income. Now who's not getting a fair shake?

Which is why, if you want to understand who's paying what in taxes, you don't want to just look at federal income taxes, or federal payroll taxes, or state sales taxes -- you want to look at total taxes. And, luckily, the tax analysis group Citizens for Tax Justice keeps those numbers. So here is total taxes -- which includes corporate taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and more -- paid by different income groups and broken into federal and state and local burdens:


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## danielpalos (Apr 27, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...





> At the beginning of the 1800s most poor Americans outside the South resembled the poor of Europe. They were chiefly orphans, widows, people too old or too sick to work, or seasonal workers out of season. Wealthy people or local governments gave them "outdoor relief," consisting of food, firewood, or small amounts of money known as alms, primarily from a sense of paternalism or community responsibility. State poor laws, generally inherited from English tradition, required towns to take care of their poor.--http://ic.galegroup.com/ic/uhic/ReferenceDetailsPage/ReferenceDetailsWindow?zid=7e952f4fd224c2d83c3130d4b800d0a8&action=2&catId=&documentId=GALE%7CBT2350040328&userGroupName=oldt1017&jsid=711bfef797b5766ac55cbb700f060a09


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## danielpalos (Apr 27, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Why do one percenters, need a tax break?


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## francoHFW (Apr 27, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Has nothing to do with the Bush WORLD DEPRESSION and mindless GOP obstruction except 3 weeks for ACA. The GOP has CUT plenty of Dem policy. Like cheap college, a living wage, and high taxes on the rich for a healthy country. You're brainwashed.


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## francoHFW (Apr 27, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


The Dems need total control, filibuster proof, to do anything. The GOP has no clue about compromise for 30 years now. The "no-compromise, un-American TP GOP" (TIME). All they have for dupes is bs propaganda and hate- seems to be plenty for you...

The Great Society did a lot for a few years, and of course FDR and SS and UE have done wonders. Most elderly used to be poor, dupe.


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## francoHFW (Apr 27, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


They need a big tax hike, like Dems want to do.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 27, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



So not one bill was even introduce. Now on the other hand the Democrats have introduced lots of bills to help the rich get richer.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 27, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



And you have not showed me a bill that the Democrats introduced to help the poor out of poverty. 

You have been had, silly dupe.


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## francoHFW (Apr 27, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


You're feqqing out of your mind...Name 1 that made the rich richer...ACA helped the poor-gave them Medicaid ferchrissake.
*12 Bills That the Filibuster Stopped From Becoming Law*
dailysignal.com/2015/11/11/12-bills-that-the-filibuster-stopped-from-becoming-law/
Nov 11, 2015 - Here are a dozen bills the filibuster stopped cold. ... Jimmy Stewart as a freshman senator employs the filibuster to block ... American Jobs Act. In the minority, Republicans still shut down PresidentObama's 2011 jobs plan.
*Bills Republicans Have Blocked Since President Obama Took Office ...*
Bills Republicans Have Blocked Since President Obama Took Office: Off Topic Forum: Digital Photography Review
Bills Republicans Have Blocked Since President Obama Took Office. Nov 2, 2012. 10. I keep hearing this argument that Obama did not do enough....there is a ...
*Obama: GOP blocked 500 bills - POLITICO*
www.politico.com/story/2014/05/republicans-legislation-obama-dccc-event-106481
May 8, 2014 - President Barack Obama is railing against congressional Republicans, telling a Hollywood crowd that the midterm elections are crucial ...
*The list of bills that Republicans have blocked under President ...*
www.lipstickalley.com › Forum › The Alley News Stand › Politics
Nov 1, 2016 - 15 posts - ‎13 authors
GOP senator Mitch McMcConnell said as soon as Obama got elected. He said that his job would be to make certain that Obama was a ...


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## danielpalos (Apr 27, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, helps the working poor out of poverty.


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## francoHFW (Apr 27, 2017)

The GOP blocked all living wage proposals, $10.10 in 2012


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


 Silly liberal and goofy of course the guy who makes $4 million a year may pay $1 million in taxes while  the guy who makes $40,000 a year  May pay a measly $3000. Why should one guy pay millions of dollars and another guy pay next to nothing. Should a rich guy have to pay a higher price for a car too.why do only the rich have to pay for government while everyone else gets a virtual free ride. America was not founded it to be a nation of leechers and takers.


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


Dear, don't blame the poor for being better at tax avoidance.


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## Redfish (Apr 28, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




Trump pays what he is legally obligated to pay according to the tax code.  Like everyone else his accountants and lawyers work to legally minimize his tax obligation.

I don't have any idea what point you are trying to make.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 28, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



No, no it doesn't. That keeps up with inflation, no one gets out of poverty at $15 an hour. Also that isn't a federal bill that was introduced. Nice try, you got anything else?


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


no here from your post.  it seems your goal posts fell over.


francoHFW said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



_*"But what if we did the same thing for the payroll tax*_? Remember, the payroll tax only applies to first $110,100 or so, our rich friends is only paying payroll taxes on 2.7 percent of his income. The guy making $40,000? He's paying payroll taxes on every dollar of his income. _*Now who's not getting a fair shake?*_"

Your fking quote bubba.  Now pick up your goal posts and put em back in the ground.  and answer my question.

So, how is it the 40K a year guy is affected more than the rich dude again?


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


well you won't answer the question I posed to you on withholding taxes.  

So, how is it the 40K a year guy is affected more than the rich dude again?

so now move along.


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


I believe Trump paid 28%?


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


or work for a fking dollar.  how's about that? who ever wrote that the poor shouldn't work to get their welfare check?  they want their check, go to the city hall and sign up for projects in the city and must report to work daily or lose money.

I don't make a buck sitting doing nothing.


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


so playing ring around the rosie, what tax exactly do the poor pay outside sales tax?

BTW, the poor don't get a tax break, cause they don't pay federal taxes.  it is quite simple if someone like you actually had a brain.


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


so you're still confused I see.  you should take a tax class.


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


so you double down on the withholding tax squat juice again.  And again, the 40K person gets all of his/her federal tax dollars back at tax time.  ooops


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


who said they asked for one?


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


for the purpose of what?


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


hly fk......


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


well we can take their money away and they can keep their avoidance.


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## Markle (Apr 28, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, helps the working poor out of poverty.



Not at all.

The minimum wage is a trigger in many contracts.  Doubling the minimum wage would necessarily double the wage of someone already earning $15.00 per hour to $30.00.

The end result will be that the nine of the ten order takers at the fast food restaurant will be replaced by one technician earning $40.00 per hour to maintain the ten kiosks which now eliminate nine jobs and they would still have two janitors earning the minimum wage of $15.00 

The end result, the two janitors are still living in poverty, there are simply fewer jobs available to young people getting their first jobs and gaining valuable work experience.

That's okay, we're heading in that direction today so might as well get them out of work early!


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Why does a one percenter, need a tax break?

Is our debt not large enough.


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


dear, it is about privatizing costs, not socializing costs.  a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, helps do that.


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Why is it the poor's fault, the one percent are lousy at tax avoidance, and want tax breaks?


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Why is it the poor's fault, the one percent are lousy at tax avoidance, and want tax breaks?


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


why should i take you seriously about politics?


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


just right wing, "hate on the poor", and "blame the left"?


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, helps the working poor out of poverty.
> ...


Yes, it will. A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage competes favorably with the cost of social services.  And, helps privatize costs instead of socialize costs. 

Dear, nobody should take the right wing seriously about price inflation.


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


how is it any different than someone working?  You continue to avoid an answer smart guy.  Well Poindexter, what say you?


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


clueless, completely clueless.  you won't ever know economics friend. The real solution is to find a career job that pays more than 15 an hour.  It is simple economics go to the jobs that pay the money to rise out of poverty.  government forcing only ends up with higher cost products for supply and demand.


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


And next year he'd pay 8% after alt tax is repealed per his plan. Great job!


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


Poverty line is much lower than $15/hour, dingbat dupe.


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


and the poor guy still paid zero%


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


you don't get it either do you?  LOL


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


so go find a career job paying 15 dollars an hour. Doing what you said on the minimum wage salary doesn't.  And it's been explained. your poverty line then would move to 25 dollars an hour.  Then you'd be crying to make the minimum wage 25 dollars an hour and then the poverty level would rise to 25 dollars an hour. get it yet?


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


To invest in the nonrich and infrastructure like the good old days before pander to the rich and baffle the chumps Reaganism, dupe.


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

facts are always telling signs.


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


fifty years and there's been zip improvement except in the 90s with the GOP contract.  oops, the GOP did it.  you all failed it.


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


If you ignore every tax and fee except the fed income tax, the only progressive (barely) tax we have, and all dupes like you can talk about lol.


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


the majority of the country pays 50% into some tax.  Again, you don't think that's enough?  how much should we all pay in?  come now.


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


dude, you don't have SS, Medicare, property tax, sales tax, general tax.  get all that in there too. I'm waiting.


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Add in the ridiculously high fees that Reaganism has given us and the state and local contribution goes up again, for the poor especially and nonrich. Great job!


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



WTF is  the cost of social services?  What does  that even mean?  

What are privatized costs and social costs, and what does that have to do with $15.00 per hour?????


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## Markle (Apr 28, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Why does a one percenter, need a tax break?



If you confiscated all the wealth of all your hated 1% ers, how much would that reduce the National Debt run up by petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama?


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Dear, don't blame the poor for being better at tax avoidance.


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


Yes, it will. A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage competes favorably with the cost of social services. And, helps privatize costs instead of socialize costs.

Price inflation is Only a right wing Red Herring, it is all they have to show for, "learning how to fish".


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> The Dems need total control, filibuster proof, to do anything. The GOP has no clue about compromise for 30 years now. The "no-compromise, un-American TP GOP


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Like I keep repeating; why should Anyone take the right wing seriously about economics or the law.

Price inflation is the Red Herring of the fantastical right wing.


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Why is there any homelessness at all, especially in Right to Work States, if it is so easy to find a better job with better pay?


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


Don't swallow the crap that the rich pay so much. After 30 years of New BS GOP tax policy, we basically have a flat tax system for everyone over the poverty line.


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> facts are always telling signs.


the right wing doesn't have any facts; fantasy inducing fallacy, is all they usually have.


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


right wing fantasy is all you have.  why not post links?


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


according to the right wing, the poor don't pay any taxes.  why not become poor, so you can avoid paying any taxes, better?


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## Papageorgio (Apr 28, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



A $15 hour wage does not lift one out of poverty, no you are wanting to move the goal posts. I am asking for one bill that lifts the poor out of poverty by Congressional Democrats, that you can't find one is not surprising at all. Thanks for trying and thanks for proving my point.


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

Markle said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Why does a one percenter, need a tax break?
> ...


learned how fish, did you, right wing fishmonger?  Red herrings are all you have; how much is that worth, in the non-porn sector.


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Why does the right wing claim, the one percent need a tax break, when we already have massive debt?


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


I did.  go back and look.


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


I think he means a living wage or 15/hr makes it worthwhile to get off social services, while 7 or 8 or even 9 doesn't...tho don't start- being on welfare is a full time pain in the ass. Certainly having ACA Medicaid or subsidies for poorer workers keeps many off welfare too...


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Yes, it does; much better than a lesser minimum wage under Any form of Capitalism.

Any more Red Herrings, right wing, fishmonger?


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


cause you don't know how revenue comes in.  It's a simple little thingy as well.  the more paying in, the more dollars you get.  Not sure why it is so hard for you to understand that.


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


then all one has to do is look for a job that pays that much.  Why is that so hard for you stoops to figure out?


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


I enjoy my life.  I don't have to wait in line to get a dollar. I enjoy challenges in life.  I'm competitive.


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Actually, 35 years of Reaganism and the slow ruin of the nonrich and the country....
*The Demise of the American Middle Class In Numbers.*

Over the past 35 years the American dream has gradually disappeared. The process was slow, so most people didn’t notice. They just worked a few more hours, borrowed a little more and cut back on non-essentials. But looking at the numbers and comparing them over long time periods, it is obvious that things have changed drastically. Here are the details:

*1. WORKERS PRODUCE MORE BUT THE GAINS GO TO BUSINESS.*

Over the past 63 years worker productivity has grown by 2.0% per year.

But after 1980, workers received a smaller share every year. Labor’s share of income (1992 = 100%):

1950 = 101%
1960 = 105%
1970 = 105%
1980 = 105%  – Reagan
1990 = 100%
2000 =  96%
2007 =  92%

*A 13% drop since 1980*

*2. THE TOP 10% GET A LARGER SHARE.*

Share of National Income going to Top 10%:

1950 = 35%
1960 = 34%
1970 = 34%
1980 = 34% – Reagan
1990 = 40%
2000 = 47%
2007 = 50%

*An increase of 16% since Reagan.*

*3. WORKERS COMPENSATED FOR THE LOSS OF INCOME BY SPENDING THEIR SAVINGS.*

The savings Rose up to Reagan and fell during and after.

1950 = 6.0%
1960 = 7.0%
1970 = 8.5%
1980 = 10.0% – Reagan
1982 = 11.2% – Peak
1990 = 7.0%
2000 = 2.0%
2006 = -1.1% (Negative = withdrawing from savings)

*A 12.3% drop after Reagan.*

*4. WORKERS ALSO BORROWED TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS.*

Household Debt as percentage of GDP:

1965 = 46%
1970 = 45%
1980 = 50% – Reagan
1990 = 61%
2000 = 69%
2007 = 95%

A 45% increase after 1980.

*5. SO THE GAP BETWEEN THE RICHEST AND THE POOREST HAS GROWN.*

Gap Between the Share of Capital Income earned by the top 1%
and the bottom 80%:

1980 = 10%
2003 = 56%

*A 5.6 times increase.*

*6. AND THE AMERICAN DREAM IS GONE.*

The Probably of Moving Up from the Bottom 40% to the Top 40%:

1945 = 12%
1958 =  6%
1990 =  3%
2000 =  2%

*A 10% Decrease.*

Links:

1 = ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/pf/totalf1.txt
1 = https://www.clevelandfed.org/Research/PolicyDis/No7Nov04.pdf
1 = Clipboard01.jpg (image)
2 – http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/blog/09/04/27/CongratulationstoEmmanuelSaez/
3 = http://www.demos.org/inequality/images/charts/uspersonalsaving_thumb.gif
3 = U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)
4 = http://www.prudentbear.com/index.php/household-sector-debt-of-gdp
4 = http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/current/
5/6 = http://www.businessinsider.com/15-c...lity-in-america-2010-4?slop=1#slideshow-start

Overview = http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010062415/reagan-revolution-home-roost-charts

REAGANISM JUST ROLLS ON, defended to the death by the New BS GOP...


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


It's a whole class and the whole country going to hell under your greedy idiot party policies. Ever heard of the big picture? That's politics, not your moronic GOP talking points, dupe.


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


the big picture?  you have no idea where the picture is.


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > The Dems need total control, filibuster proof, to do anything. The GOP has no clue about compromise for 30 years now. The "no-compromise, un-American TP GOP


Luckily, our country is so strong economically it can do better than anywhere else even under total GOP disfunction and pander to the rich policy, except of course when we have a GOP president and congress and the corruption and idiot cronyism gets out of hand, like the Real Estate bubble depression of 2008, the S+L bubble of the late 80's, or the 1920's Wall St madness. In fact the only time they've had 8 years and didn't wreck the country was under independent Ike.


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


So your cure for the whole country and the middle class falling apart is for people to find a good job? LOL.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


poverty and the new deal 1933:

http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1851.html

"The government should assume the function of economic regulation only as a last resort, to be tried only when private initiative, inspired by high responsibility, with such assistance and balance as government can give, has finally failed. As yet there has been no final failure, because there has been no attempt, and I decline to assume that this nation is unable to meet the situation."


*"Who paid for the New Deal?*

The foregoing projects, and others, were expensive, and the government was not taking in enough revenue to avoid deficit spending. To fund all the new legislation, government spending rose. Spending in 1916 was $697 million; in 1936 it was $9 billion. The government modified taxes to tap wealthy people the most, who could take it in stride most easily. The deficit was made up in part by raising taxes and borrowing money through the sale of government bonds. Meanwhile, the national debt climbed to unprecedented heights."

And yet here we are 2017 47% of the population is on it today. Defecit today is near 20 trillion. And you blame Reagan.  too funny.


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


right now there 5.6 million Mike Rowe has been on many shows letting the country know about these jobs.  No one is coming for them.  Why?  

5.6 Million Reasons to Stop Ignoring the Skills Gap

*5.6 Million Reasons to Stop Ignoring the Skills Gap*
February 15, 2016

Mike Rowe on How to Combat Unemployment & the Skills Gap




"





March 01, 2017    As seen on Tucker Carlson Tonight
Television host Mike Rowe explained Wednesday on "Tucker Carlson Tonight" the importance of fixing the "skills gap" in America.

Rowe said there are 5.6 million job openings waiting to be filled in fields that for the most part do not require a bachelor's degree."


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Do  you read what other people  say  or do  you  say  the  same shit over  and over to  try and  look dumb.


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



A flat tax?  How do we have a flat tax when  the bottom 45%  pay no income tax and the top 1% pay 40%?


----------



## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


I've been talking about this for years, and so have the Dems, but the GOP refuses cheap training programs and cheap college or college loans, as usual to save the rich and their giant corporation cronies from paying their fair share. Good to see someone on the New BS GOP propaganda machine has woken up finally.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Thank you, now tell that to your clueless pal Daniel that claims that the minimum wage lifts people out of poverty.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



I already explained to you over and over again that payroll tax is money you'll likely get back  anyway.  Your city  provides city  services to you.  Your state provides state  services to you.  You'll get back every  penny of SS and  Medicare  and then some.  So everything comes back to you one way or another.  

This is why highlighting federal income tax is so important; because it's a tax you don't get anything back directly.  All  the  other  taxes you pay, you get something (or everything) out of it.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 28, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



That wasn't the question, the question is which bill did Congressional Democrats introduce to Congress that lifts the poor out of poverty. 

I know you want to avoid discussing an issue and you throw out BS that has nothing to do with answering the question. That is why people don't take you seriously, because you are not serious.


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


you can't "rest on your laurels".  Y'all have nothing but repeal, now.


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


Why do the one percent, need a tax break.  That is the question.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



So where did the real estate  bubble start?  Come on, let's see how informed you really are.


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


if it were that easy, there would be no homelessness, in Right to Work States.


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


the poor don't whine about taxes.


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Because everyone who is over the poverty line pays the about the same in all taxes duhhh. We had a 70% tax on the highest income until Reagan, the only thing that kept executive pay from becoming obscene...GOP dupes can't get past all the propaganda about fed income taxes. Fed taxes have been going down, fed aid to states goes down, state and local taxes go up, and they are regressive taxes that kill the nonrich, along with cuts in services.


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, helps the working poor out of poverty.  Health care reform also helps.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



In other words, living off of other peoples money.


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
> ...


They should.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



A 70% tax.  And do tell, how many people do you think actually  paid  that 70%?


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


You can't live off those crap GOP min wage jobs or less than living wage jobs, especially with no health care in GOP states. The GOP and the dupes have no limit on screwing over the poor.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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So who created  more low paying jobs than DumBama?  Your  precious unions  are responsible  for  those good jobs leaving  in the first place.  Now you Dimocrats want to increase minimum wage even more because you never learned your lesson the first time.


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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You tell me, with a link. It made for a limit on how rich most people got, unlike today. With unlimited greedy and actual hate for the poor (read lazy blacks) in many minds...


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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That's not Obama, that's Reaganism rolling along, plus the GOP obstruction blocking cheap training programs and college for techie jobs that ARE produced by new free trade markets- for TWENTY YEARS! Unions my ass, min wage my butt, dupe.


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## tycho1572 (Apr 28, 2017)

Blacks were happy with democrats until they realized they were being used for votes.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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Yes, the  government took  more money away  from them.  It  made government richer and citizens less rich.  How was that good for anybody but government?


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Don't blame the poor for being good at tax avoidance; it sounds like, "class envy".


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

tycho1572 said:


> Blacks were happy with democrats until they realized they were being used for votes.


Unlike the poor on the right wing?


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## tycho1572 (Apr 28, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> tycho1572 said:
> 
> 
> > Blacks were happy with democrats until they realized they were being used for votes.
> ...


I'm trying to stay on topic.....
*Why do democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare?*


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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Not with CRA or Clinton, dupe. It started in 2003 when Fannie and Freddie lost 65% of the market and GOP crony private institutions like Countrywide started selling to anyone breathing scam mortgages under Boooshie "oversight". And AIG etc got them rated A+ and sold around the world. Great job. And the dupes think the gay guy and F+F did it lol arggghhhhhh...


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> tycho1572 said:
> 
> 
> > Blacks were happy with democrats until they realized they were being used for votes.
> ...


Pure mindless GOP obstruction and BS propaganda works with our pathetic controversy mad punditocracy media and our uninformed citizenry...


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


The GOP blocked everything. $10.10 min wage in 2012 and infrastructure jobs bill, thru free community college last year. Dems should really propose them over and over like the GOP and start a real propaganda machine, with facts! Sorry you miss most of the news...


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

tycho1572 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > tycho1572 said:
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They don't. That's black is white bs propaganda, for hater dupes only. Every policy to get the poor out of poverty has been proposed or passed by the Dems. All the GOP ever does is cut taxes on the rich...dupes.


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## Thinker101 (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> tycho1572 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Ah, ah, ah, that's not staying on topic.


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## tycho1572 (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> tycho1572 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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Really? How do you explain the black voters for Trump?

I'll wait.


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > tycho1572 said:
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Sure it is. Substitute black for poor. Why do GOP dupes always talk about black poor? Because they need an excuse for voting against themselves?


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## tycho1572 (Apr 28, 2017)




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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Why do GOP dupes always talk about black poor?



because they are the most targeted by the crippling and deadly liberal programs. Liberals have controlled the inner cites for 50 years and turned them into depraved war zones more dangerous the Afghanistan! In the Republican era it was cool to work and black teen unemployement  was lower then white teen unemployment. Now its cool and liberal not to work and not to do well in school. Its white and whites are the oppressor. Our Founders sought to make liberalism illegal and so should we!!


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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> > francoHFW said:
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Oh yes, it did start with Clinton.  Care for me to post some stories about in  from the late  90's?  One of them a NYT article I believe.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



You make silly ASSumptions. Please get serious on the issue, I tire of your dishonesty.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> . It started in 2003 when Fannie and Freddie lost 65% of the market...



by time of collapse Fanny/Freddie owned or guaranteed 75% of Alt A and Subprime mortgages as major part of liberal program to get people into homes the Republican free market said they could not afford!! 

Barney Frank: "I hope by next year we'll have abolished Fanny Freddie... it was a great mistake to push lower income people into homes they couldn't afford and couldn't really handle once they had it"



"These two entities—Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac—are not facing any kind of financial crisis," said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. "The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."-Barney Frank


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

tycho1572 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > tycho1572 said:
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Love your Red Herrings, right wing fishmonger. 

The answer is, they don't; it is just right wing projection due to their having nothing but repeal, instead of better solutions at lower cost.


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## tycho1572 (Apr 28, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> tycho1572 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


There's a reason why your party lost over 1,000 seats. Have you considered taking a step back to think you might be wrong?


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Why do GOP dupes always talk about black poor?
> ...


Our founders were liberals. BS. And end the war on drugs and blacks, racist GOP.


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
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Pass a good SS ID card ferchrissake.


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

tycho1572 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > tycho1572 said:
> ...


Gerrymandering, pure obstruction, and a tidal wave of BS propaganda? Not to mention Putin and Comey stealing an election? Your party is a disgrace. Enjoy the giant tax cut for the rich and the corrupt bubbles, dupes.


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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Read what I said again. FACT.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Given the entire thing started by government reducing loan  regulations so  that  minorities and the less wealthy  could buy homes, how  is that the  Republicans fault?  Republicans know they can't ever get the lowlife or black vote; you said so yourself.  So why would Republicans lower standards so that the lower income people  could afford homes?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



What does that have to do with your obsession of taxpayers paying for everybody else's government  goodies?


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > . It started in 2003 when Fannie and Freddie lost 65% of the market...
> ...


Link? BS!. By the end  they were back when Countryside etc were on the run...under GOP pressure.


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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For huge money, of course. Gop cronyism run wild as usual. No worries, just cost 7-8 trillion here, and wrecked the world. Google Countrywide, AIG, Lehman Bros. There were no changes to welfare and UE rules.


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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Clinton signed a GOP bill. Too often.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
> ...



You're talking  the end  game and  I'm talking  about the beginning.  This all started because Democrats wanted to buy votes  of minorities  by changing (and getting  F&F to) regulations  to give un-credit worthy minorities homes.


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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That's what the GOP has refused to do for 31 years to end illegal workers and immigration. There have been no changes to goodies rules, just a corrupt GOP DEPRESSION.


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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BS, Clinton signed a GOP bill. Only GOP crony "oversight" made the corrupt bubble possible.


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## danielpalos (Apr 28, 2017)

tycho1572 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > tycho1572 said:
> ...


Right wing pander from a rich guy under our form of capitalism?


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## francoHFW (Apr 28, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Funny how all the bad mortgages etc were all sold under Boooshies by crony GOP private institutions starting in 2002......


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## Papageorgio (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Notice that the big concern was bailing out the rich corporations, Congress was all over that, the poor...Dems didn't really care.


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## Redfish (Apr 29, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...




the so-called payroll tax,  which is actually social security and medicare, should be collected on all forms of income with no limitation.   And stop calling it a payroll tax, it is contributions into the SS and medicare funds that you will get back if you live long enough.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



No, not surprising at all.  Bush inherited a recession, and then  of course  911.  It took a lot of work to get the  economy going  again, so house sales were low.  

When the economy started to grow, people once again felt secure enough to buy houses.  Between the low interest rates and much lower qualifications to buy a home, the bubble started to  grow.  But the  lower qualifications were designed under Clinton for the minorities.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



What are you talking  about?  We are trying to end  illegal immigration now.  But that's very  difficult to do when the Democrats (Chuck Schumer) threaten  to  shut down  the  government.  What they can't control, they leave  it to their  Commie activist judges to stop Trump and the  Republicans.

The less Democrats  in  our  federal  government  and courts, the faster we can get rid of the illegal immigrant  problem. 

Yes, there have been  changes to our government goodies.  That's why DumBama doubled the food stamp role.  Commie Care created an additional 20 million government dependents.  Between those two programs alone, the liberals  created 40 million more  government  dependents.  Don't  tell  me  there  has  been  no change.


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## francoHFW (Apr 29, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


TARP for the big corps that caused it was from Paulson and Booosh duh dupe, the stimulus from Obama saved GM and Chrysler, 200 billion for infrastructure jobs, big money for cops, teachers, and firemen and state and local gov'ts. As usual, you're clueless...


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## francoHFW (Apr 29, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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The wall is useless, dupe. The only change in welfare was the Bush depression. 61% want ACA fixed, not repealed like hater dupes.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



That's one  of the problems with  creating new entitlements:  they are  very difficult  to get rid of.  It's why we  should  never  create one  more.


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## danielpalos (Apr 29, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


The rich can hire subject matter specialists to advocate their policies. It takes a while for our representatives to "catch up" about the poor.  Health care reform and a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, helps more than, nothing but repeal.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



So you believe in giving banks hand outs, you believe in giving corporations handouts. The cops, the teachers and fireman saw no raises from tarp, silly little boy. You have been duped! Duh!


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## Redfish (Apr 29, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...




obamacare is not reform, it was a government takeover of 1/6 of the economy, and it didn't work for anyone except those getting it free.   For everyone else is sucked with higher premiums, higher deductibles and less coverage.

your $15 minimum wage rant has been defeated many times already in this thread.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 29, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Dems didn't help the poor during the bailout, they chose the rich. They didn't even try to repeal the tax cuts for the rich like Obama promised he'd do his first day in office. The rich lookout for the rich, political party doesn't matter.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 29, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



Obamacare is the only law that charges Americans to pay to be legal citizens.


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## Redfish (Apr 29, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...




and now the great Kenyan messiah Obama is getting paid $400K to give a speech to wall street bankers.   any of our resident libs care to explain how that helps the poor?


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## danielpalos (Apr 29, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


so what; there is no drug war clause in the Doctrine of the Republicans, and we still cannot convince the right wing to abolish it to lower our tax burden.  I guess drug dealers are not poor enough, and get more "respect" than the poor.


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## Redfish (Apr 29, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...




what??????????????


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## Papageorgio (Apr 29, 2017)

Redfish said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Funny how all these libs claim to help the poor and want them out of poverty but all they do is cry that the government should do it and won't lift finger themselves to do it.


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## sealybobo (Apr 29, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?


We believe in social safety nets.

Why don't Republicans hire black people? That will get them off welfare.

If poor blacks voted Hillary would be president


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## Papageorgio (Apr 29, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Why don't Democrats help the poor? They have not introduced a bill into Congress to help the poor get out of poverty, they just supply more programs to keep them poor. Why?


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## danielpalos (Apr 29, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


some people consider the drug war to be an, "entitlement", it is very difficult to get rid of.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 29, 2017)

Funny that the only way the Regressives can fight this issue is to say look at Republicans. That is it! They can't defend the Democrats stand of hating poor blacks and wanting them to stay on welfare, because that is true and they have nothing but diversion and blaming others. 

Democrats, no personal responsibility, just blame.


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## danielpalos (Apr 29, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


guess you should have focused on your sight words, in first grade.


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## danielpalos (Apr 29, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


let's end the drug war, right wingers; y'all have the "walk the walk" majority, right here and right now.  

Where is there a drug clause, in the Republican Doctrine?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Nobody considers the drug war to be  an  entitlement accept foreigners  that  don't  understand our English language.


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## danielpalos (Apr 29, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


it is very difficult to get rid of.=entitlement.  your right wing, "catechism".


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?
> ...



What Republicans are not  hiring blacks????  

Correct, if all the welfare people  voted, Hillary would be President.  It tells you  exactly what's wrong  with  our election  process.  IMO, people of working age who  do  not work  should not be  allowed to vote.  Currently, they are allowed to vote money out of my pocket into theirs, and  I see nothing  fair about  that.


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## danielpalos (Apr 29, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?
> ...


The right wing only has a "work or die" ethic and nothing but repeal, for the poor.  I guess we can't afford better privileges and immunities under our form of Capitalism.


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## danielpalos (Apr 29, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Health care reform and a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, is "walking the walking"; nothing but "all talk and nothing but repeal", right wingers.


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## danielpalos (Apr 29, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Funny that the only way the Regressives can fight this issue is to say look at Republicans. That is it! They can't defend the Democrats stand of hating poor blacks and wanting them to stay on welfare, because that is true and they have nothing but diversion and blaming others.
> 
> Democrats, no personal responsibility, just blame.


Spoken while the right, has a working majority in Congress. 

Repeal the drug war on Your right wing watch, right wingers!  Be more than, _all talk and no action._ 

Even free chics can be good at that, if no porn is involved.


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## Redfish (Apr 29, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




sight words?   what language do you speak?


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## danielpalos (Apr 29, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Socialism can be a Good thing, when well regulated.

Socialism can be a Bad thing, when used to "enforce _socialism_ over _capitalism_ well regulated."


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## danielpalos (Apr 29, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage will have a "trickle up effect". 

Management is "overpaid" anyway, if their "real estate guy" says we are not getting a good deal with laissez-fair trade.


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## Redfish (Apr 29, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




wrong, a $15 minimum wage will destroy jobs for teens and those with little or no education.  

which management is overpaid, and by how much, and who makes that decision? 

do you even know what laissez faire trade means?


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## danielpalos (Apr 29, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


The right wing was never fully on-board with our previous president; y'all had nothing but the Obstruction, of Nothing but Repeal.


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## Redfish (Apr 29, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




Did Obama try to work with republicans?   or did he tell them to move to the back of the bus?  

Obama's goal was to bring this country to its knees, and the bastard almost succeeded.


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## danielpalos (Apr 29, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


not enough corporate raiding that destroys livelihoods, for adults with children?  Capitalism has a Natural rate of unemployment.  And, demand will grow, in the long run.

Hostess management; it Only works well in the Porn sector.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



There is no trickle up effect.  If you believe that, then take a pail of piss, throw  it up in the  air over your head, and  see how much of it goes  up.


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## danielpalos (Apr 29, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


The Rich had to get their bailout; the poor, not so much.  

Where was the right wing, with nothing but repeal instead of competing with better solutions at lower cost.


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## danielpalos (Apr 29, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Yes, there is.  Ask anyone else on the right wing, who may complain about wage inflation as the minimum wage goes up.


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## Redfish (Apr 29, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




yes, Obama gave the rich wall street bankers a bailout. He also saved the UAW with his auto company bailout.

What exactly has been repealed?  WTF are you talking about? 

Is obozocare a "better solution"?   Are higher premiums and higher deductibles better for working americans?

you are totally out of touch with reality.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Wage inflation is not the same as trickle up.  Nothing trickles anywhere, it's just that new standards are put in place and there is a reaction to that.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 29, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



All the Democrats have is excuses and blame, no responsibility.

The rich took care of the rich, that is what the Democrats did, they took care of the rich.

Maybe one day the Democrats will just introduce one bill that will help the poor out of poverty.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 29, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



The discussion isn't the right wing, the discussion is the Democrats that did nothing. They didn't offer one bill to help the poor out of poverty. The Democratic Party did what the Republican Party did, however you persist in the lie that the Democratic Party cares about the poor.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



If they  did that they would lose half of their  voters.  The only way to help those in  poverty is take away their government goodies so they have to  earn money a different way and  make them  more  responsible for their actions like having children  they could never afford.  That won't happen with either party as "the  children" are  always the  crutch  to moving  forward  and actually reducing the  problem.


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## francoHFW (Apr 29, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


Let's have a link to all these new gov't goodies. I submit no such thing has happened, only that the the slow ruin of the nonrich and the Boooshie depression added to the numbers eligible for welfare and food stamps.

  ACA Medicaid for poor workers has only recognized reality- you were already paying for their care, just in the stupidest, cruelest, most deadly way possible. The only thing wrong with our old  GOP scam system was the ridiculous costs, now for the first time being somewhat controlled- Now FIX IT. It was never portrayed as a finished product, dupe.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> . It was never portrayed as a finished product, dupe.


True, Obamacommiecare was the brainchild of obama who really wanted single payer communism ,and we know from East Germany and Cuba how well communism works!!


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 29, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> the Democrats that did nothing. They didn't offer one bill to help the poor out of poverty.


this is true they have already passed all the bills they can think of. First there was free medical care for the poor, then for the old, then for children, and now single payer for everyone. Health care is where we have all the Democrat's communist ideas in one place and surprise it is where we have the most trouble!! Just like Stalin after the first 5 year plan failed. We need an even more robust libcommie plan!!


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## francoHFW (Apr 29, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > . It was never portrayed as a finished product, dupe.
> ...


Idiocy lol. We also know how well socialist health care works in Scandinavia, the original EU, Canada, OX, NZ, and Japan (the countries similar to here DUHHH if we could just educate you moron dupes)- BETTER results at half the cost of ours, no worries instead of our god awful GOP scam system you brainwashed jackasses want to go back to, like zombie dupes of the greedy idiot rich.


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## francoHFW (Apr 29, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > the Democrats that did nothing. They didn't offer one bill to help the poor out of poverty.
> ...


Except about a hundred bills the GOP filibustered, jackass dupes. Living wage, cheap training programs for 6 million tech jobs going begging, infrastructure jobs bank, tax hikes on the bloated rich, tax cuts for the ruined nonrich, higher subsidies for ACA, regulations to cut ACA prices, paid parental leave (Only we and NEW GUINEA don't have it!, shytteheads)- so much you dupes never hear about. It's like arguing with zombies...


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Idiocy lol. We also know how well socialist health care works in Scandinavia, the original EU, Canada, OX, NZ, and Japan.



works well? it may be a more a efficient form of socialism than we have but if it worked well the USSR,  Red China, and East Germany would still be flying high and Scandinavia would be using single payer in all industries. Tell us the truth! You're a communist and there are 10001 other govt interventions you want as a prelude to communism here in every industry- right??!!


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## francoHFW (Apr 29, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Idiocy lol. We also know how well socialist health care works in Scandinavia, the original EU, Canada, OX, NZ, and Japan.
> ...


You're a gd idiot. Of course not. Communism never worked and no Dem was EVER for it, let alone in the last 60 years, superdupe dope. The only industry that could possibly be nationalized is energy, another necessity industry that is GOP/crony out of control corrupt- some good regulation/tax would be enough tho. You're right off the gd wall! LOL!


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



Too bad for you communism is not on our agenda!! Do you know why Sanders honeymooned in the USSR and why Obama voted to left of Sanders??

Norman Thomas ( socialist presidential candidate)
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Communism never worked and no Dem was EVER for it,


what about the ones who spied for Stalin and gave him the bomb?? What about Obama and Sanders??


*There's a big mystery at the heart of Barack Obama's Dreams For My Father:  A Story of Race and Inheritance.  What was Barack Obama doing seeking out Marxist professors in college?  Why did Obama choose a Communist Party USA member as his socio- political counselor in high school?  Why was he spending his time studying neocolonialism and the writings of Frantz Fanon, the pro-violence author of "the Communist Manifesto of neocolonialsm", in college?  Why did he take time out from his studies at Columbia to attend socialist conferences at Cooper Union? And why did Obama vote to the left of Bernie Sanders and open communist? When did he listen to Rev. God Damn America Wright" for 25 years. And why was he so friendly with communist mentor Frank Davis?,( Communist Party number: 47544)*







Obama said, in his biography,  he gravitated to Marxist professors in college, he had a Marxist preacher best friend for 20 years, said in his auto biography that when he worked on Wall Street he felt as if "he had parachuted behind enemy lines", was more liberal in the Senate the Bernie Sanders( an open socialist) and now, despite 200 years of gov't growth, his deficits  will be bigger than all other American presidents combined, and, he also wants perhaps absolute control over health care (already mostly controlled by gov't), banking, and the auto industry.


Through Frank Marshall Davis,( Communist Party number: 47544) Obama had an admitted deep and prolonged relationship with someone who was publicly identified as a member of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA). The record shows that Obama was in Hawaii from 1971-1979, where, at some point in time, he developed a close relationship, almost like a son, with Davis, listening to his "poetry" and getting advice on his career path.
But Obama, in his book, Dreams From My Father, refers to him repeatedly as just "Frank."


Bernie Saunders is a Democrat and an open socialist. Obama is to the left of Saunders based on his voting record in the Senate.

Oleg Klugian (head of KGB in cold war) said that when he wanted to recruit spies he looked among the liberals. When FDR's liberals went to the USSR they came back on  a ship named the "Leviathan" to report, "they had seen the future and it worked."

Then of course BO appointed at least 4 communists: Mark Lloyd (supporter of communist revolution in Venezuela) and Van Jones who said "give them the wealth, give them the wealth," and Annita Dunn who said, "Mao is my favorite philosopher" , and Bloom who said, "free markets are nonsense."

Obama:  the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties....... it doesn’t say what the federal government [our genius founders forgot?]  or the state government must do on your behalf.

I think that there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributive [Marxist] change.

Obama: "I think we can say that the Constitution reflected an enormous blind spot in this culture that carries on until this day, and that the Framers had that same blind spot."

Obama: the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties....... it doesn't say what the federal government [our genius founders forgot?] or the state government must do on your behalf.

In an article titled "The Impossible is Now Possible: Assessing the Obama Presidency," executive vice chair of the Communist Party United States, Jarvis Tyner hailed the President's "drive to the left." "The health care bill, the stimulus package, the cap-and-trade bill, the elimination of secret elections for union representation-it's a program we dared not dream possible only a year ago," Tyner wrote. "But now it's on the verge of becoming the new blueprint for a truly socialist America."



A quick visit to the CPUSA website yields:

"In some ways last night's State of the Union address by President Obama was a virtuoso performance. There were stirring moments, memorable turns of phrase, humor, a defense of activist government, and proposals that will be welcomed, and surely help, millions of people in need." Obama State of the Union: He got the ball rolling

And, if all that is not enough BO  wrote a book called " Dreams From my Father". His father was a drunken suicidal Marxist who dreamed to  free the world from American imperialism. His mother married 2 communists and urged BO to follow is communist bio dad.


And lets not forget that BO is openly for single payer socialist health care!!

And lets not forget Barry wrote a book called "Dreams from my Father"

1. In 1965, Barack Obama, Sr. wrote in the “East Africa Journal” the following: “We need…to eliminate power structures that have been built through excessive accumulation so that not only a few individuals shall control a vast magnitude of resources as is the case now.” How? Well, the state can take over large segments of the “commercial” or private sector. And, he said, there is no reason to worry about economic freedom or individual rights “We have to look at priorities in terms of what is good for society and on this basis we may find it necessary to force people to do things they would not do otherwise.”

2. In an article from 1965 entitled “Problems Facing Our Socialism,” Barack Obama’s father stated: Theoretically, there is *nothing that can stop the government from taxing 100% of income *so long as the people get benefits from the government commensurate with their income which is taxed. . . It is a fallacy to say there is a limit (to tax rates), and it is a fallacy to rely mainly on individual free enterprise to get the savings. Barack Obama Sr. "Tax 100% of income." Like Father, Like Son? | Peace . Gold . Liberty | Revolution


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## francoHFW (Apr 29, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


It already is, superdupe, just a corrupt pander to the rich GOP socialism (as long as we have ACA). BTW, socialism is just fair, ALWAYS DEMOCRATIC, CAPIALISM, with a good safety net. You dupes think it's communism. Feqing brainwashed functional morons. Ask any Dems who know what they're talking about or any furriner. Call it Social Democrat, zombie dupe- you may get it in 10-20 years...


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## francoHFW (Apr 29, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Communism never worked and no Dem was EVER for it,
> ...


Because he wanted to know all the facts? He's no communist, IDIOT. Single payer is great, but ACA will work almost as well, given time and some more regulation of costs...considering how many cold war dinosaur superdopes like you there are.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> You dupes think it's communism.


Only because Bernie and Obama say it is!!! There is "never enough" govt for  liberals even after 200 years of more and more growth. Read book by that name you super super duper dupe libcommie!!


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Because he wanted to know all the facts? He's no communist,



right and all the  liberals who spied for Stalin and gave him the bomb were not communists either!! Right super duper super super best dupe!!!

actually he says openly he's a socialist!!While attending the University of Chicago, Sanders joined the Young People’s Socialist League, the youth wing of the Socialist Party USA. He also organized for a communist front, the United Packinghouse Workers Union, which at the time was under investigation by the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

After graduating with a political science degree, Sanders moved to Vermont, where he headed the American People’s History Society, an organ for Marxist propaganda. There, he produced a glowing documentary on the life of socialist revolutionary Eugene Debs, who was jailed for espionage during the Red Scare and hailed by the Bolsheviks as “America’s greatest Marxist.”



n 1985, he traveled to Managua to celebrate the rise to power of the Marxist-Leninist Sandinista government. He called it a “heroic revolution.” Undermining anti-communist US policy, Sanders denounced the Reagan administration’s backing of the Contra rebels in a letter to the Sandinistas.

Sanders: General Electric, good example. General Electric was created in this country by American workers and American consumers....

Huh? Thomas Edison had nothing to do with it? J.P. Morgan had nothing to do with it? This is Marxist magical thinking,



Read more: Blog: How much of a communist is Bernie Sanders? (part 2)
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook



hen, in 1989, as the West was on the verge of winning the Cold War, Sanders addressed the national conference of the US Peace Council — a known front for the Communist Party USA, whose members swore an oath not only to the Soviet Union but to “the triumph of Soviet power in the US.”

Today, Sanders wants to bring what he admired in the USSR, Cuba, Nicaragua and other communist states to America.

For starters, he proposes completely nationalizing our health care system and putting private health insurance and drug companies “out of business.” He also wants to break up “big banks” and control the energy industry, while providing “free” college tuition, a “living wage” and guaranteed homeownership and jobs through massive public works projects. Price tag: $18 trillion.

While a Senator only Obama voted to left of Sanders

Sanders, 73, has been preaching socialism for nearly half a century, and he cites Eugene Debs, the five-time presidential candidate of the Socialist Party of America, as his hero. But he hasn’t always embraced the label.

“I myself don’t use the word socialism,” he said in 1976 in the Vermont Cynic, a student publication at the University of Vermont,


Sanders: General Electric, good example. General Electric was created in this country by American workers and American consumers....

Huh? Thomas Edison had nothing to do with it? J.P. Morgan had nothing to do with it? This is Marxist magical thinking,



Read more: Blog: How much of a communist is Bernie Sanders? (part 2)
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

It began for him when he joined the Young People’s Socialist League while a student at the University of Chicago, from which he graduated in 1964. What was the mission of the Young People’s Socialist League?

It was spelled out in the preamble to its constitution: “The Young People’s Socialist League of America calls upon all young people who are interested in the emancipation of the working class from the chains of wage slavery to join its rank and through it and its associated organizations of the International Socialist Movement, to work for the overthrow of the present capitalist system in all its social and economic ramiﬁcations, and for the establishment in its stead of a worldwide socialistic cooperative commonwealth.


Read more at Is Bernie Sanders a communist?

Sanders called Sandinista leader Daniel Ortega “an impressive guy,” with “deep convictions.” He then accused the Reagan administration of poisoning public perception of the tyrannical regime

Read more: Bernie Sanders is a Communist Sympathizer
Follow us: @TheLibRepublic on TwitterSanders called Sandinista leader Daniel Ortega “an impressive guy,” with “deep convictions.” He then accused the Reagan administration of poisoning public perception of the tyrannical regime.

Read more: Bernie Sanders is a Communist Sympathizer
Follow us: @TheLibRepublic on Twitter


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Let's have a link to all these new gov't goodies. I submit no such thing has happened, only that the the slow ruin of the nonrich and the Boooshie depression added to the numbers eligible for welfare and food stamps.



Look up the Pork Bill and see it for  yourself.  Nearly a trillion dollars that did nothing, but the expansion of food stamps was in there.  Commie Care is "a new  government  goodie" that cost us over a trillion  dollars.  The stupid  internet site was a billion  dollars alone.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Already drunk I see.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 29, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Because he wanted to know all the facts? He's no communist,
> ...



*began for him when he joined the Young People’s Socialist League while a student at the University of Chicago, *

That explains everything, I didn't even know that


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## francoHFW (Apr 29, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > You dupes think it's communism.
> ...


Quote the whole thing so one can see the enormity of your moronism, dupe. Everyone in the world but GOP dupes know the difference between socialism and communism. Socialism is democratic, the best, and not dead DUHHHHH.


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## francoHFW (Apr 29, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Let's have a link to all these new gov't goodies. I submit no such thing has happened, only that the the slow ruin of the nonrich and the Boooshie depression added to the numbers eligible for welfare and food stamps.
> ...


WTF are you talking about? The stimulus and then ACA? Both worked just fine, dupe.


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## francoHFW (Apr 29, 2017)

bear513 said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


So he knew what socialism was 43 years before you dupes, if you figured it out TODAY, lol. FAIR capitalism, always democratic. I knew in 1960. World Book.


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## francoHFW (Apr 29, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


Jeebus you dupes are idiots...


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> So he knew what socialism was 43 years before you dupes,



yes he knew and is an open treasonous socialist/commie today.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Yeah, it worked out fine for government workers, unions and lowlifes who's only talent was to ask if  you want  fries  with your burger.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...




Again I never knew berine was part of the Chicago Democrat machine..

And I thought I knew it all


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## Papageorgio (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



No, we just realize the rantings of an old drunk.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> FAIR capitalism, always democratic..



thats the HS drop outs Super duper super supreme duper idea of an argument. He is for fair capitalism, i.e. communism, and we are for unfair capitalism. !


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## francoHFW (Apr 29, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Averted a full blown GOP depression, shytteheads...


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## francoHFW (Apr 29, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > FAIR capitalism, always democratic..
> ...


I think I'll just ignore you. SO dumb.


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## francoHFW (Apr 29, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > FAIR capitalism, always democratic..
> ...


Masters in History, Rochester '89, MORON. Yup, that's pander to the greedy rich GOP. Doubled the wealth of the 1% in 30 years. All you have is bs propaganda, stupid stuff.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


The year is 2017

.


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## francoHFW (Apr 29, 2017)

bear513 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


???


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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So full of it.  If anything, he retarded the recovery. 

DumBama was the most  anti-business President in our lifetime.  Business gets us out of recessions--not government.  All government can do is make it easier or harder for businesses to accomplish that.


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## danielpalos (Apr 29, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Health care reform and a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage is some solution.  The right wing, literally has, no solution.


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## danielpalos (Apr 29, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Yes, it is a form of, "trickle up".


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## danielpalos (Apr 29, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


The democrats introduced health care reform and a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage.  The right wing, still has nothing but repeal.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 29, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Neither program takes the poor off poverty. Care to try again or you just going to blame others?


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## danielpalos (Apr 29, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Both of those programs, promote the general welfare.  The right wing, still, after one hundred days and a majority in Congress, have nothing but repeal or Red Herrings.


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## danielpalos (Apr 29, 2017)

Some on the alt-left are still waiting for the right wing to at least start to "sell us" on _vaporware_ that they can "tweek in the middle of the night until it works".


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## danielpalos (Apr 29, 2017)

Gentlemen, we are "burning administration daylight".


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## francoHFW (Apr 29, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


How, ridiculous dupe? Our economy is still in a perfect time and DESPERATE for an infrastructure bank, cheap training for 6 million tech jobs going begging, tax cuts for the middle class, and a living wage, all blocked by the GOP. What we're going to get is ANOTHER giant tax cut for the richest and giant corps. RW idiocy...


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



You leftists give no credit to human  beings.  You think government should be in your bathroom  so somebody can wipe you since you're incapable of doing it yourself.

People  can get their own education with their own  money.  People can get a living wage job if they really want one.  You don't need the federal government to do everything in your life for you.

And  what kind of tax cuts are you looking for the middle-class?  The  middle-class barely pay any income tax now  and some  not at all.  Most of our taxes are payroll which again,  we get back after we retire.  Since both federal programs are going to be out of money soon, you can't cut taxes on those programs.


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## danielpalos (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


there is no unemployment, only underpayment for the bottom line, under Any form of Capitalism.


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## francoHFW (Apr 29, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


At the least they should raise the cap on payroll tax according to inflation and cut that rate on the nonrich. The GOP has been screwing the middle class for 35 years...They should raise taxes on the bloated rich and giant corps and get back to cheap public college and training like before Raygun, and raising fed aid to states and cutting state and local taxes and fees again. When you make everything for regular people as expensive and hard as possible, the whole class goes to hell. You dupes think being an exception means something....


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



If they raise the cap on SS  and FICA,  shouldn't those  who paid more get more back?  Nahhh, that's not the  liberal way. The liberal way is to use  other  peoples money to pay those that  paid less or nothing at all.   

Taxes on the  rich  have nothing  to do with what colleges charge.  If you  want  cheap public college, let  the state or county make it cheap--not federal government.  Why should I in  Ohio  be paying for public college in  Iowa?  

Every goodie  that's questioned about funding is met with the typical liberal answer of "let the rich pay."  Why should  the rich  pay for everything  for everybody else?  

_*"How much is YOUR fair share of what somebody else worked for?"*_
Thomas Sowell 

John Stossel: Tax The Rich? The Rich Don't Have Enough. Really.


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## francoHFW (Apr 29, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Breaking: You're not the bloated rich so no Dem is talking about you paying more. Ohio can do what it wants with the extra money.

Why? Because the rich have doubled their wealth the last 30 years while everyone else has gone to hell DUH dupe.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Good point.  THEY doubled their wealth, not society. 

If you think taking  more from people because they have it is a good thing, then why not extrapolate that to other things?

If you have a dozen beautiful bushes in front of your house, would  it not be fair for government to take some of your bushes and give them to your neighbor that has  none?  If you own three cars, that's not fair because your neighbor only owns one.  Would it not be justice for government to take one of your cars and give it to your neighbor?  You like television and have four big screens in your home, but your neighbor has a 25" tube television.  Would  it not be fair for government taking  two or your big screens and  giving those to your neighbor? 

You leftists are all for taking other people's property to give  to others, but you would be outraged if government  took from you to do the same.


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## francoHFW (Apr 29, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


They're richer for ONE REASON: the New BS GOP cut their taxes duh. And the rest get taxed more in state and local taxes and fees to make up for less federal aid...Will you snap out out of it ferchrissake...


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


The top 1% pay 4o% up from 20 under Reagan. Thats a tax cut only to Stalinist!!


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## francoHFW (Apr 29, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


It was 50% under Reagan when things were going WELL LOL. HUGE cut!! Then he changed it to 28% his last
 year....and good night Irene...


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


still pretending the rich took it from the poor when in reality liberals took it from the poor with their taxes unions regulations illegals and their war on our families schools and religion.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 29, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


The top 1% pay 4o% now up from 20% under Reagan. Thats a tax cut only to Stalinist.


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## francoHFW (Apr 29, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Not the poor, the nonrich. The middle class and working class.


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## francoHFW (Apr 29, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


It was 50% under Reagan when things were going WELL LOL. HUGE cut!! Then he changed it to 28% his last
year....and good night Irene...


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Good.  States and local taxes  should be higher and let those people use THEIR money as  they see fit instead of depending on the feds to give them  money based on political favors.  

If it were up to me, Social Security and Medicare would be state collected and run.  The more you depend  on the  federal government, the more  power they have over you.


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


 You're a great friend of the corrupt, greedy idiot GOP rich who have brainwashed the hell out of you...I guess you won't be happy until we go back to feudal states and serfs and slavery lol...So do away with the filibuster and have your way. Then one day we'll have OUR way and you'll see you're a total dupe.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



You did  have  your way in  2008.  That's why the country has been turning more conservative every year.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 30, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
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> > danielpalos said:
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Gee nutter, I didn't argue that, I am saying the Democrats who pretend to champion the poor have not introduced one bill to get people out of poverty. Why is that? Why don't the democrats help the poor move up the financial ladder instead of keeping them poor? 60 out of the last 84 years the Democrats have held the House, the Senate and the Presidency and at times all three at once, yet they have no bill introduced that would raise the poor from poverty. All you offer is excuses and no responsibility.


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## danielpalos (Apr 30, 2017)

End the work tax, so more people will have more money to spend.


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## danielpalos (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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_Both of those programs, promote the general welfare. _

The right wing, still, after one hundred days and a majority in Congress, have nothing but repeal or Red Herrings.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 30, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I'm not arguing what Republicans have done or not done in the last 100 days, I am talking about Democrats who have been in the majority in 60 of the last 84 years not taking people in poverty and moving them out. 

The left has nothing but excuses, not even good excuses, they blame those that have been in control for 100 days not 60 years! 

What bill have the Democrats introduced in the last 84 years that have moved the poor out of poverty? 

So far we have none in the last 84 years. Democrats like Daniel have no answers, only excuses and blame.


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


Well, we averted ANOTHER full blown corrupt GOP depression and passed a basic framework to reform our health care system, but were unable to reform our pander to the rich GOP tax/economic system. Scott Brown was a disaster for the country.


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
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You're a gd moron, deaf and blind. FDR, LBJ, and Obama (for 3 weeks!) had control, passed SS retirement, UE, Workers comp, cheap U. and training, Civil Rights, many infrastructure and jobs bills etc etc etc, and now Medicaid for the poor and subsidized catastrophic health care and you're a gd idiot. All the GOP has ever done is cut services for the nonrich and taxes for the rich.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
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Good then name the bill that was introduced to bring poor black out of poverty.


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
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And of course wreck the world economy every time they get 8 years.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> francoHFW said:
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> > Papageorgio said:
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I'm not arguing who is better, I will give you that Dems have introduced hundreds of bills to help poor to stay poor. I am asking what bill have they introduced to get poor people out of poverty. If you can't answer, just say so. No need to blame others and divert to another party. I also realize that is all you have because the Dems have done the poor blacks no favors.


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
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WTF is wrong with you? LOL! How bout the $10.10 min wage bill of 2012, blocked of course? That would have gotten ALL poor workers out of poverty. DUH. Like LLBJ's min wage law. YOU STUPID BRAINWASHED ASSHOLE. Beside all the ones I've mentioned...


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## Papageorgio (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
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You think $10.10 an hour gets you out of poverty? Are you STUPID? You are laughable, $10.10 gets people out of poverty. 

If that is your criteria then no wonder you are happy. LoL!


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
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> > Papageorgio said:
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That's about $21,000 a year if they work full-time.  It's enough for Franko to live on.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
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No, what they did was get healthcare to lowlife Democrat voters at the expense of likely Republican voters.  It wasn't about healthcare, it was about creating more government dependents.  The more government dependents, the more likely Democrat voters.  It was nothing more than politics.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 30, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Papageorgio said:
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Franco sets the bar extremely low and then fails to meet the expectation.


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## danielpalos (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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heath care reform and a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, is a continuing effort.

The right wing, still, after one hundred days and a majority in Congress, have nothing but repeal or Red Herrings.


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## danielpalos (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
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> > Papageorgio said:
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A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage helps working blacks.


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## danielpalos (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
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> > francoHFW said:
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Hooverville, helped the poor stay poor; that type of public policy, only deserves one term, by Historical precedent.


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
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> > Papageorgio said:
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It gets you over the government poverty line, stupid.


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## danielpalos (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
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> > Papageorgio said:
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The right wing claims there should be no statutory minimum wage, so the rich can get richer faster, by having the poor work harder for less.


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## danielpalos (Apr 30, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Papageorgio said:
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> > francoHFW said:
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lol.  the right wing wants the poor to work harder for less, so the rich can get richer faster.


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
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BS, it helped more GOP rural voters than Dems, ya brainwashed turd. Why do you think poorer GOP voters have been waking up? CHANGE THE GD CHANNEL. READ A NEWSPAPER, dumbass dupe.
*If Rural Voters Were Angry Before, Wait Until The GOP Repeals ...*
www.huffingtonpost.com/.../rural-voters-obamacare-repeal_us_58c1d0b9e4b0d1078...
Mar 10, 2017 - They'll pay more and their hospitals will suffer under the GOP replacement ... promise to angry rural voters to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act, ... Democrats, at least, certainly think so, and are looking at both fresh polling ... if he helps carry out the repeal bid, especially if the Affordable Care Act, ...
*Trump voters would be among the biggest losers in Republicans ...*
www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-obamacare-trump-supporters-20170312-story.html
Mar 12, 2017 - The House GOP plan to replace Obamacare would hit parts of the country ... Affordable Care Act, according to a Times analysis of county voting and ... particularly in rural areas where healthcare costs are higher and ... In nearly 1,500 counties nationwide, such a person stands to lose more than$6,000 a ...
*Obamacare repeal could hurt rural areas — a key Trump constituency ...*
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/03/.../obamacare...rural.../story.html
Mar 14, 2017 - WASHINGTON — Republicans from rural states increasingly are worried that their ... areas whose votes helped catapult Donald Trump into the White House. ... lose the most under the Republicanalternative all backed Trump in the general ... The Affordable Care Act required Americans to buy health care ...
*Obama's Health Law: Who Was Helped Most - The New York Times*
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/.../obamacare-who-was-helped-most.html
Oct 29, 2014 - Rural areas have fallen further behind larger metropolitan areas. ... They have benefitedmore from Obamacare than men, and they have ... Despite many Republican voters' disdain for theAffordable Care Act, parts of the ... many Democrats living in even the most strongly Republican regions of the country.


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
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> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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It means you can work and NOT go on welfare and still get a doctor, preventive care  stupid. Could you dupes possibly wake up?


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## Papageorgio (Apr 30, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
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> > francoHFW said:
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Democrats help the poor stay poor, 84 years has proved it.


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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Hilarious, brainwashed twit.
You're a gd moron, deaf and blind. FDR, LBJ, and Obama (for 3 weeks!) had control, passed SS retirement, UE, Workers comp, cheap U. and training, Civil Rights, many infrastructure and jobs bills etc etc etc, and now Medicaid for the poor and subsidized catastrophic health care and you're a gd idiot. All the GOP has ever done is cut services for the nonrich and taxes for the rich.
And of course wreck the world economy every time they get 8 years....


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## Papageorgio (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
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No it doesn't because if you are a poor black you are supporting more than yourself, stupid. Learn instead of being a Democratic asshole.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 30, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
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If that was the issue you may have a point in this issue it is about Democrats blaming others for what they don't do themselves.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
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84 years and the Democrats have not introduced one bill, not passed but introduced one bill to lift the poor out of poverty. Congrats, I can see how proud you are keeping the poor in poverty. All you can do is blame and divert.


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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Dems would raise it even more if they EVER get the chance DUHHHHH. So Dems are evil because they can't overcome a-hole GOP obstruction? You're a gd idiot dupe...


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
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Jeebus what a brainwashed tool lol. BTW, that $10.10 min wage the GOP blocked in 2010 would have gotten a family of 3 over the gov't poverty line. Are you seriously this obtuse?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...4pbfmmmHKQwIFa6Bg&sig2=IldEJ67HVNCQvKW_9wt6PA


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## Papageorgio (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
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No they wouldn't. They put a bill to raise it to $10.10, not a real living wage like $20 or $25 per hour. 

Again all you have is blame, I'm not asking if a bill made law, I am asking for one introduced. The GOP can't stop the introduction of a bill, but you being a stupid moronic idiot, apparently can only blame others for the Democrats faults. So all your rants are nothing but diversion.


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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It's over the gov't poverty line for a family of 3, and you're blaming Dems for being blocked by the evil GOP, your heroes- so does the OP. You're a gd idiot. Look up brainwashed.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
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Dumb shit, get it through your fucking head, I have not said one positive thing in this thread about the GOP. The GOP has done nothing to help the poor, and neither have the Democrats. If you can live in NY, LA, Chicago, Atlanta, Seattle on $20,090, more power to you. All they need to do is introduce a bill, not pass it and the Democrats aren't doing that. They want those that are on poverty to stay there. You would have to be an absolute moron not to see it.

You and people like you, that are partisan nutters, ruin a chance of getting a dialogue to move an issue forward.


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
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So who do you vote for, dupe? lol. You wanted a bill they introduced or passed, and I gave you ten or so. Seattle has a $15 min wage, and more coming- Thanks to Dems ONLY.


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
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You certainly believe all the GOP bs...


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## danielpalos (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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The right wing has nothing but repeal of health care solutions for the poor, and tax breaks for the rich.


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## danielpalos (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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The rich got their bailout, not blacks.  It really is that simple.


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## danielpalos (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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right wing fantasy is just that; health care reform and a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, helps the working poor get out of poverty, sooner, rather than later, as would be the case without any minimum wage increase.


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## danielpalos (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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health care reform and a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, is Some Thing.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


*10.10 min wage bill of 2012, blocked of course? That would have gotten ALL poor workers out of poverty*
*
*
Hilarious.. you should write jokes for SNL


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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Plus repeal of all kinds of other good stuff...only total bs propaganda keeps their crap alive...


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## danielpalos (Apr 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



It is an effort; the Only thing the right wing knows how to do, is give the rich tax breaks, for "jobs booms".  lol.


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## danielpalos (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


nothing but fallacy induced fantasy, is all the right wing usually has.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 30, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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After 8 year's of the Messiah you can't get a job?


This is confusing


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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Any actual argument, superdupe? At least a family of 3 gets out of poverty, and a helluva lot better than the lying cheating brainwashing GOP duhhhhhhhhhhh....


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> That would have gotten ALL poor workers out of poverty..



you mean it would have gotten all robots out of poverty, just like high union wages here got all Chinese workers out of poverty!! See what happens when you drop out??


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> bear513 said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
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For 10 bucks an hour?

I spent a 300 bucks on just my power bill


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...


...the President being obstructed you mean, dupe. And guessing you're wrong about the rest too, MR. brainwashed stupid insult.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> ...the President being obstructed you mean, dupe..



as if obstructing a libcommie like Castro or Obama is a bad thing!! Did you want more of his cash for clunkers program??


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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Have you idiots ever heard of the gov't poverty line? Mine's $370 haha. Is this what GOPers do, brag about how rich they are and how bad they screw the poor? Enjoy hell.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> bear513 said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
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The president today is the trumpster


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > ...the President being obstructed you mean, dupe..
> ...


You make no sense at all, ignorant superdupe. And that worked, like everything else he could do....


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> bear513 said:
> 
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Yes you live in a blue state

I left

.


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## ScienceRocks (Apr 30, 2017)

Democrats offer education for all and jobs programs that make easier to get a job. 

What do republican offer? Sweat shop jobs?


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 30, 2017)

Matthew said:


> Democrats offer education for all and jobs programs that make easier to get a job.
> 
> What do republican offer? Sweat shop jobs?



Global economy now...


Quit trying to drag us in the past


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > bear513 said:
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And? Can you try following this? You'd be for the bloody English, dupe.


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## Thinker101 (Apr 30, 2017)

Matthew said:


> Democrats offer education for all and jobs programs that make easier to get a job.
> 
> What do republican offer? Sweat shop jobs?



Great, now you ought to be able to get a job.


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > Democrats offer education for all and jobs programs that make easier to get a job.
> ...


The new markets produce lots of new jobs, for Germany and other countries with programs for training techie workers- also blocked by the dumbass greedy idiot GOP...


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > Democrats offer education for all and jobs programs that make easier to get a job.
> ...


Why are GOPers such stupid bigot a-hole trolls?


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## Papageorgio (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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Congress was involved in the Seattle minimum wage?  Lol! 

I want a bill that would get the poor out of poverty, your bills don't help get them out of poverty. ACA doesn't move them out, food stamps don't get them out, $10 minimum if you have no job won't get you out. All the Dems do is give then another program to depend on.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 30, 2017)

Matthew said:


> Democrats offer education for all and jobs programs that make easier to get a job.
> 
> What do republican offer? Sweat shop jobs?



Name them.


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## Thinker101 (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...



Just trying to keep up with you a-hole trolls.


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## NYcarbineer (Apr 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > Democrats offer education for all and jobs programs that make easier to get a job.
> ...



So quit trying to make America great again?


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...


When did this fantasy of yours happen?


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 30, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...


Great burn..

Now you have another idea?


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> You make no sense at all, ignorant superdupe. And that worked, like everything else he could do....



if socialism worked then East Germany and 132 other libcommie countries would have prevailed rather than kill 120 million. You have a slightly  uphill battle  given 132 countries and 120 million human souls slowly starved to death. You'd have a better case with National Socialism. Good luck super duper dupe dupe!!


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 30, 2017)

Matthew said:


> Democrats offer education for all and jobs programs that make easier to get a job.
> 
> What do republican offer? Sweat shop jobs?



What Democrats offer is giving people education to get a job and sending the bill to somebody else to pay.  If you need education for a job, get it yourself and pay for it.  That's what everybody on the right does.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> bear513 said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
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$10.10 an hour is about $21,000 a year.  Tell me how anybody  can support a family of three on $21,000 a year unless they live in a cave?


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...




Let's hear your thoughts and ideas?


.


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
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About every 20 minutes...


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
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Cheaply. Ask the gov't.


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > Democrats offer education for all and jobs programs that make easier to get a job.
> ...


What a load of bs
 There's no difference between white GOPers and white Dems...stop GOP bigots discriminating against minorities and they wouldn't scew the stats...


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
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The same government employees that need a union from themselves?


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
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Jeebus that min wage didn't pass because of your heroes. WTF is your logic?


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


It did pass


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> francoHFW said:
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> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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Everyone should have one...


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
> ...





EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > You make no sense at all, ignorant superdupe. And that worked, like everything else he could do....
> ...


Socialism is always democratic except in dupe world, dupe. That's communism DUHHHHH.


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
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NOTHING PASSED after Scott Brown, dupe.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...



How is the GOP discriminating against anybody?


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## Papageorgio (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> bear513 said:
> 
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> ...



How long were you in a union?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
> ...



No, I'm asking you since your stance is that $21,000 a year would take a family of three out of poverty.  Hell, if I (as a single person) only made that, I would be living under a bridge; not the same one as you live under mind you........


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > Ray From Cleveland said:
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All their racist voters do. And the GOP party discriminates against the middle class and the poor every chance they get. All to save the bloated rich from paying their fair share- AS THEY DON'T, gd it.


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...


That's the gov't poverty line, which you GOPers enjoy keeping many people UNDER.


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
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> > bear513 said:
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Never. You?


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


$12k is the Single poverty line. Add 4k for each additional.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Yep, for a couple years. If you think everyone should be in a union, why weren't you?


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## Papageorgio (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Poverty line for three is somewhere over $20,000


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## danielpalos (Apr 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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> > bear513 said:
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have you seen, U6?  thank goodness for the democrats; we know the republicans only want to "save money" with Hoovervilles.


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## danielpalos (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


what is the annual equivalent to fifteen dollars an hour?


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Never in a company or school that had one.


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
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> > francoHFW said:
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30k


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
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Which shows you how out of touch our government is. 

A family of three lives on a gross of $21,000 per year.  After taxes, that's about $15,000 per year.  

Out of that $15,000, your rent or mortgage is about $600.00 a month.  That means that after housing, you have  $7,800 a year left.  Your utilities are on average about 100.00 a month, that leaves you with $6,600 a year.  Your grocery bill for a family of three is about $400.00 a month.  That leaves you with $1,800 a year.  

How is that not poverty?  And I didn't include gasoline for your vehicle to get to work per year.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 30, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> bear513 said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
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U6 is a desperate attempt to save their own skin


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## Papageorgio (Apr 30, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
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> > francoHFW said:
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Name the person that introduced a bill to Congress wanting $15 minimum wage.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
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If you believe in them, why didn't you form one or find a job that had a union, or join a union. 

You are the one saying everyone should be in a union.


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## danielpalos (Apr 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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> > bear513 said:
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whatever can you mean?  what is unemployment rate in, Right to Work States.


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## danielpalos (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
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*Democrats are now all on board with a $15 minimum wage*

Any more questions?


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 30, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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I have the repulicans telling me your a pussy any questions?


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 30, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
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Think progressive?
Quit embarrassing your self


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## Papageorgio (Apr 30, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
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It only took them 84 years, the issue is with inflation before it would have been fully in effect, it would be 5-6 years and by then will it keep people out of poverty. The other issue is the highest unemployment is among poor blacks, so this does little to help the poor blacks, also raising wages could start automation and end jobs. 

So one bill in 84 years, doesn't sound like the Dems are that serious, does it?


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## Papageorgio (Apr 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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Give him credit, he found one bill in the last 84 years! Kudos, its more proof that the Dems aren't that serious.


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## danielpalos (Apr 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
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republican women are welcome to claim equal rights, if I "grab their pussy".


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## danielpalos (Apr 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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not really serious about, equal rights?


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## danielpalos (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
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Nothing but repeal, and Hooverville, is all the right wing has.


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 30, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> bear513 said:
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The equal rights is getting you a job


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## Wyatt earp (Apr 30, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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Do all us a favor bum..
Get a job


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> francoHFW said:
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And your party blocked it, hypocrite. There are cheaper ways to live DUHHH. The way the GOP makes people live, hypocrite. Read "Nickled and Dimed". You and your party eat shytte.


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
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And you vote for the party that ruins unions.


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

bear513 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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Who says he doesn't have one, a-hole dupe?


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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Change the channel and get some real news. I gave you at least 10. WTF is wrong with you dupes?


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## francoHFW (Apr 30, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > bear513 said:
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Remember? "
''You're a gd moron, deaf and blind. FDR, LBJ, and Obama (for 3 weeks!) had control, passed SS retirement, UE, Workers comp, cheap U. and training, Civil Rights, many infrastructure and jobs bills etc etc etc, and now Medicaid for the poor and subsidized catastrophic health care and you're a gd idiot. All the GOP has ever done is cut services for the nonrich and taxes for the rich.
Good then name the bill that was introduced to bring poor black out of poverty.
WTF is wrong with you? LOL! How bout the $10.10 min wage bill of 2012, blocked of course? That would have gotten ALL poor workers out of poverty. DUH. Like LLBJ's min wage law. YOU STUPID BRAINWASHED ASSHOLE. Beside all the ones I've mentioned..."


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
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I didn't like being in a union, I left the job. I also am an independent, I never vote straight party ticket, that is pretty stupid to do. I vote for the best qualified and who would be best to fill a position, party is not the issue. I went third party for the President because the Democrats and Republicans ran very bad candidates, shameful who they nominated, I'd be embarrassed if I voted for either. 

So all your union ranting is all bullshit, thanks for admitting it, you don't support unions and don't really believe that they are a must for the American worker. You and your buds don't believe in unions, not a one of you on the board support them, not one. You give lip service and it stops, more left wing lies.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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So you got nothing, I knew that, you are a fraud. $10.10 an hour, in most places in the US you can't live. You aren't serious about lifting the poor out of poverty, you are all about being a partisan dupe. You are an asshole to the poor giving them nothing.


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## danielpalos (May 1, 2017)

bear513 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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Equal rights is simply informing an employer I want a job, in Right to Work States.


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## danielpalos (May 1, 2017)

bear513 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
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Why should I?  I don't have any problems, avoiding paying taxes, and don't need a tax cut unlike those who are simply, not as good, at tax avoidance.


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## NYcarbineer (May 1, 2017)

The number of 'permanent' welfare recipients is extremely small.  3500 posts worth of arguing over those few people.


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## danielpalos (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
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The right wing prefers to abolish the minimum wage, so rich can get richer faster, and the poor can work harder for less.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
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> > francoHFW said:
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So you still can't refute the premise of the thread and can only accuse the right being worse than the left. BTW, most businesses in most larger cities are starting employees out at over $10.10 an hour.


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## Thinker101 (May 1, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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Here's an idea, how about getting an education, getting some experience.  Then you don't have to worry about minimum wage....quit your friggen whining.


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## danielpalos (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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So what; social services cost around fourteen dollars an hour by comparison.  The laws of demand and supply don't stop working twice a day, just for right wing ease and convenience.  Privatizing costs means more people will be circulating more money.  Socializing costs means the rich want another tax break, to get richer faster.


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## danielpalos (May 1, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
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that costs money too.  how about unemployment compensation on an at-will basis, so labor can opt-out, of lousy management practices on an at-will basis as well.


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## Thinker101 (May 1, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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So basically you're saying you want to get paid for doing nothing, sounds like you want to be on welfare.  If you got an education or some skill you could stop working for a company that has lousy management practices and find a different job.  As far as cost, there are plenty of grants for just about everyone.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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So what, you avoid taxes, you have no worries.


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## danielpalos (May 1, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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> > Thinker101 said:
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So, basically, I always have to wonder why I should ever take the right wing seriously about economics or the law.  only True socialists care about a social work ethic from the Age of Iron.  anyone who knows anything about capitalism, knows that it involves voluntary social transactions that result in mutually beneficial trade.  Only capital must circulate under any form of Capitalism.  Only socialism may require a work ethic, my goode Comrade.

Unemployment compensation simply makes it easier to obtain more skills to become more valuable as an employee; due to that recourse to that income.  A potential labor market participant should be able to go to school for as long as they want, to get a job offer they want.

In any case, why not be legal to the law regarding employment at will, instead of merely "hating on less fortunate illegals", and solve simple poverty in our republic to improve the efficiency of our economy, so we can lower our tax burden through gains from efficiency?


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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How about you find a job with good management, it takes two to tango. I won't work for a management team I don't like. I won't work for the government, bad management, lots of waste and alot of politics. Private sector is easier to find good management.


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## Thinker101 (May 1, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
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Welfare also makes it easier to obtain skills.  Do individuals do that, mostly no.  Certainly not suggesting you stop being a worthless bum, this is America, you have that choice.


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## danielpalos (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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yes, no worries, and solutions; the right worries too much and has nothing but repeal, as a result.


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## danielpalos (May 1, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
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Why not get an argument ethic and come up with more than Red Herrings, right wing fisherman; too lazy?


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## danielpalos (May 1, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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> > Thinker101 said:
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Welfare is more expensive than unemployment compensation on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
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You have never posted a solution on this board, the left doesn't solve, the left divides,


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## Thinker101 (May 1, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
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Yup that may be true, but the catch is you have to work before getting unemployment.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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Try policy some time. Your ability to ignore facts and your choices based on the supposed personality of candidates LOL are emblematic of AMERICAN political insanity. You get fooled every time...


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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RW idiocy, imaginary character assassination everywhere.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
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So let them try and live on less? Great job, idiot.


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## danielpalos (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


The left is on board with a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage; the right has no economic answers, only social answers.  hate is a "social answer".


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## danielpalos (May 1, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...


Why is there any catch for the poor?  Is there a "catch for the rich" regarding having to engender a Jobs Boom in order to get their capital gains preference?


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
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...in silly dupe world- or in a few Dem cities ...


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



So I shouldn't vote for the best candidate, I should vote straight Republican? That is pretty stupid for anyone to vote a straight ticket. I will continue to vote for quality candidates. You can continue to be a stupid partisan idiot.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Vote for the best policy. The best "candidate" is usually a lie.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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Dumbshit, in most cities, most businesses have wages starting over $10.00 an hour. That is because the market requires higher wages. But you keep pretending that $10.10 an hour is a living wage. No wonder the democrats haven't come up with better ideas when nitwits such as yourself believe that $10.10 is a living wage! LOL!!!!!!


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## jc456 (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


paying their fair share?  what does that mean exactly?  Can you explain it or do you just parrot it?


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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Left doesn't solve, they divide. This thread is a good example.


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## jc456 (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


It seems they will never understand what a 10 dollar an hour job actually is.  And then they  claim to be intelligent.  funny eh?


----------



## jc456 (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


not exactly but it is the end game.  I have other pieces that fit into that but, let's hear yours big mouth?


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## jc456 (May 1, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
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and I am quite good with repeal only.


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## jc456 (May 1, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> jc456 said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
> ...


if you knew anything, you'd know the majority of one percenter's don't pay Payroll tax like you and I do.  So rarely does a tax break actually affect them. But for those one percenters who actually hire individuals, it allows them to invest more money to build new jobs.  I know, I know, you think that's hogwash, but you asked.  I'm telling you why.  Like it or not.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



So you have no clue as to what businesses pay workers, thank you for proving your absolute ignorance on what people pay. 

You expect everyone to join a union and yet you never went to work for a union company, never tried to form a union, probably never shop for union products and don't own a GM, Ford or Chrysler.

You are all talk and nothing else.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



They are some of the stupidest people I know. Ask anyone of these idiots that claim to love unions if they belong to one, ever belonged to one, shop for only union products, shop in union stores or even own a car made by a union shop and none, not one has ever answered yes. Yet, they want everyone to join one, except themselves. They are hypocrites.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


You keep voting for the best liars, tax cuts for the rich and giant corps, state and local tax hikes on yourself, stupid wars, and cuts in services, stupid. What makes a quality candidate but their POLICIES, dupe?


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


I was a private school teacher and a buyer and salesman, shyttehead.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


I support unions, which have been destroyed by the NEW BS GOP the last 35 years, MORON. Show me a private school or office in private business that is unionized, fool. lol. Keep voting for lying tools of the greedy rich who brainwash you. A typical GOP moron. "Independant" my ass!


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## jc456 (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



The telecommunication industry is all union.  Waste pickup is mostly all union. shit man most industries that are private are unionized.  Ever hear of the Automobile Industry? I know that would be tough for you.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

jc456 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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The poverty line is below $10/hour, yet you are against raising the min wage to that. You dupes make no sense at all.


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## jc456 (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


again, the minimum wage salary was never intended to be a career salary.  just saying.   businesses that require a college degree.  Those salaries are quite high and career salaries.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


???? LOL!


jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > jc456 said:
> ...


LOL. Like the good old days before Reagan, dupe, so the richest don't keep basically all the new wealth, and the nonrich don't get ruined, dupe.


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## jc456 (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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so just as I thought, you have no idea what fair share even means and you parrot it.  LOL.

So you think GM is a government union?  and you have the gall to laugh at me?


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## Wyatt earp (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
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It's actually zero, yet you libs need the votes

.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


This thread is a RW BS myth of hate, division, and racism, dupe. Nothing like reality, as proven by all the examples of DEM aid to get ALL the poor out of poverty, all cut the last 35 years of racist Reaganism and BS propaganda and hate on the RW, dupe.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
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Hey, stupid, 40 years ago the private sector was 35% union, now it's 7%, and most red states are like 3%. You dupes are feqqing brainwashed IGNORANT functional morons. Look at map over time: 50 Years Of Shrinking Union Membership, In One Map


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## Wyatt earp (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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LMFAO


I thought we were done

Before Reagan...


.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

bear513 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
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?? WTF?


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## jc456 (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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so why aren't they out of poverty genius?


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## jc456 (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
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> ...


if you don't know that answer, then you are truly naive.


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## Wyatt earp (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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The world caught up again for the millionth time Neanderthal

.


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## jc456 (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


I agree, WTF?


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

bear513 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Reaganism is a long running catastrophe for the middle class, dupe.Hey, stupid, 40 years ago the private sector was 35% union, now it's 7%, and most red states are like 3%. You dupes are feqqing brainwashed IGNORANT functional morons. Look at map over time: 50 Years Of Shrinking Union Membership, In One Map


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

bear513 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
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And we went to hell...see sig.


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## jc456 (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


and still you are naive on the subject.  why not stop since you haven't got clues into why unions have been depleted.  you are sooooooooo lost.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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Vote Dem, not for the greedy idiot brainwashing lying GOP rich duh.


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## Wyatt earp (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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Obama destroyed the private Union's in hindsight..


Hail Obama!


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> ...


By the union busting GOP DUHHHHHHHHH.....


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## jc456 (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
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well post some statistics to back that claim then.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

bear513 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...


You're brainwashed/insane. Example? LOL


----------



## jc456 (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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so are you saying people have been forced to leave unions?  WE know unions forced jobs to go off shore.


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## Wyatt earp (May 1, 2017)

bear513 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...




The Messiah actually did something right for the middle class..



.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > jc456 said:
> ...


Without Obama's stimulus, there wouldn't be a GM union..


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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Ferchrissake read the link, silly dupe. Look at red states. DUHHHHHHH.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

bear513 said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


Al his help for the middle class was blocked by the GOP and the news never made it to you dupes DUHHH. Training for good jobs, cheap CC and college loans, living wage, infrastructure job bank, tax cuts, etc. And you fools vote for the unio busting, tax cuts for the rich GOP. IDIOTS.


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## Wyatt earp (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Seriously?

.


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## Wyatt earp (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...




I moved to a red state to get away from your ilk..



I can't stand the liberals..
..


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Beside ACA and stimulus, the last 35 years are ALL GOP FECKING THE NONRICH, DUMBASS.
*The Demise of the American Middle Class In Numbers.*

Over the past 35 years the American dream has gradually disappeared. The process was slow, so most people didn’t notice. They just worked a few more hours, borrowed a little more and cut back on non-essentials. But looking at the numbers and comparing them over long time periods, it is obvious that things have changed drastically. Here are the details:

*1. WORKERS PRODUCE MORE BUT THE GAINS GO TO BUSINESS.*

Over the past 63 years worker productivity has grown by 2.0% per year.

But after 1980, workers received a smaller share every year. Labor’s share of income (1992 = 100%):

1950 = 101%
1960 = 105%
1970 = 105%
1980 = 105%  – Reagan
1990 = 100%
2000 =  96%
2007 =  92%

*A 13% drop since 1980*

*2. THE TOP 10% GET A LARGER SHARE.*

Share of National Income going to Top 10%:

1950 = 35%
1960 = 34%
1970 = 34%
1980 = 34% – Reagan
1990 = 40%
2000 = 47%
2007 = 50%

*An increase of 16% since Reagan.*

*3. WORKERS COMPENSATED FOR THE LOSS OF INCOME BY SPENDING THEIR SAVINGS.*

The savings Rose up to Reagan and fell during and after.

1950 = 6.0%
1960 = 7.0%
1970 = 8.5%
1980 = 10.0% – Reagan
1982 = 11.2% – Peak
1990 = 7.0%
2000 = 2.0%
2006 = -1.1% (Negative = withdrawing from savings)

*A 12.3% drop after Reagan.*

*4. WORKERS ALSO BORROWED TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS.*

Household Debt as percentage of GDP:

1965 = 46%
1970 = 45%
1980 = 50% – Reagan
1990 = 61%
2000 = 69%
2007 = 95%

A 45% increase after 1980.

*5. SO THE GAP BETWEEN THE RICHEST AND THE POOREST HAS GROWN.*

Gap Between the Share of Capital Income earned by the top 1%
and the bottom 80%:

1980 = 10%
2003 = 56%

*A 5.6 times increase.*

*6. AND THE AMERICAN DREAM IS GONE.*

The Probably of Moving Up from the Bottom 40% to the Top 40%:

1945 = 12%
1958 =  6%
1990 =  3%
2000 =  2%

*A 10% Decrease.*

Links:

1 = ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/pf/totalf1.txt
1 = https://www.clevelandfed.org/Research/PolicyDis/No7Nov04.pdf
1 = Clipboard01.jpg (image)
2 – http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/blog/09/04/27/CongratulationstoEmmanuelSaez/
3 = http://www.demos.org/inequality/images/charts/uspersonalsaving_thumb.gif
3 = U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)
4 = http://www.prudentbear.com/index.php/household-sector-debt-of-gdp
4 = http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/current/
5/6 = http://www.businessinsider.com/15-c...lity-in-america-2010-4?slop=1#slideshow-start

Overview = http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010062415/reagan-revolution-home-roost-charts


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

bear513 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Or unions, or facts.


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## Wyatt earp (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



I know my wallet...

And I refuse to support your silly nonsense...


I still work for a living..


Your retired Franco..


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


So are you calling Democrats liars? Because I have voted for many Democrats, especially in local elections, you  are a fucking dumbshit.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Private school or not, you have the right to form a union, why didn't you if you thought it was so important? So do you own a GM, Ford or Chrysler? Do you only shop for union made products? Do you shop at a grocery store that is unionized? So instead of getting mad at me, why not try living the way you want everyone else to live, shyttehead!


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



You can unionize in any job, you cannot be fired for forming a union, you aren't really that stupid are you? You would have to know that, unless you are a complete moron, are you a complete moron or are you just lying your ass off?


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

bear513 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Like most dupes, you can't stand being show how ignorant and FOS you are. Sorry.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


And that bs will stop the union busting GOP? LOL!


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I mentioned nothing about right wing anything, I don't care what the right wing does. The left is the group that claims they are for helping the poor get out of poverty and they don't. They lie and claim it is others fault.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



For people as stupid as Franco, minimum wage is all he is worth, so he thinks it's great.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

bear513 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...


 Keep voting for the screw the nonrich brainwashing GOP then, dupe. And listen to your elders lol...

*The Demise of the American Middle Class In Numbers.*

Over the past 35 years the American dream has gradually disappeared. The process was slow, so most people didn’t notice. They just worked a few more hours, borrowed a little more and cut back on non-essentials. But looking at the numbers and comparing them over long time periods, it is obvious that things have changed drastically. Here are the details:

*1. WORKERS PRODUCE MORE BUT THE GAINS GO TO BUSINESS.*

Over the past 63 years worker productivity has grown by 2.0% per year.

But after 1980, workers received a smaller share every year. Labor’s share of income (1992 = 100%):

1950 = 101%
1960 = 105%
1970 = 105%
1980 = 105%  – Reagan
1990 = 100%
2000 =  96%
2007 =  92%

*A 13% drop since 1980*

*2. THE TOP 10% GET A LARGER SHARE.*

Share of National Income going to Top 10%:

1950 = 35%
1960 = 34%
1970 = 34%
1980 = 34% – Reagan
1990 = 40%
2000 = 47%
2007 = 50%

*An increase of 16% since Reagan.*

*3. WORKERS COMPENSATED FOR THE LOSS OF INCOME BY SPENDING THEIR SAVINGS.*

The savings Rose up to Reagan and fell during and after.

1950 = 6.0%
1960 = 7.0%
1970 = 8.5%
1980 = 10.0% – Reagan
1982 = 11.2% – Peak
1990 = 7.0%
2000 = 2.0%
2006 = -1.1% (Negative = withdrawing from savings)

*A 12.3% drop after Reagan.*

*4. WORKERS ALSO BORROWED TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS.*

Household Debt as percentage of GDP:

1965 = 46%
1970 = 45%
1980 = 50% – Reagan
1990 = 61%
2000 = 69%
2007 = 95%

A 45% increase after 1980.

*5. SO THE GAP BETWEEN THE RICHEST AND THE POOREST HAS GROWN.*

Gap Between the Share of Capital Income earned by the top 1%
and the bottom 80%:

1980 = 10%
2003 = 56%

*A 5.6 times increase.*

*6. AND THE AMERICAN DREAM IS GONE.*

The Probably of Moving Up from the Bottom 40% to the Top 40%:

1945 = 12%
1958 =  6%
1990 =  3%
2000 =  2%

*A 10% Decrease.*

Links:

1 = ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/pf/totalf1.txt
1 = https://www.clevelandfed.org/Research/PolicyDis/No7Nov04.pdf
1 = Clipboard01.jpg (image)
2 – http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/blog/09/04/27/CongratulationstoEmmanuelSaez/
3 = http://www.demos.org/inequality/images/charts/uspersonalsaving_thumb.gif
3 = U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)
4 = http://www.prudentbear.com/index.php/household-sector-debt-of-gdp
4 = http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/current/
5/6 = http://www.businessinsider.com/15-c...lity-in-america-2010-4?slop=1#slideshow-start

Overview = http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010062415/reagan-revolution-home-roost-charts


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


And yet you parrot RW propaganda all day here...lol.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


And you block raising it like a good little GOP fool...


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Duh, no. Exactly dumb. The national elections are what matter, and those Dems are the only hope against screw the nonrich, lying, cheating, hypocrite GOPers...


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



See you are a lying sack of shytte! You don't support unions in anyway shape or form other than words on this message board, yet pieces of shytte like you expect everyone else to be in a union. I bet your eyes are brown.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



What did I say? I have said nothing to defend the GOP. We are talking about the left hating poor blacks and you keep bringing up the right, so I take it you can't defend the left. I realized you couldn't decades ago.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



And I voted for a Dem for the House of Rep and voted third party for President, so you are wrong again and lie as per usual. Nothing new about that, hypocrite.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


So you terminally confused. 3rd party is as good as GOP. 35 years of GOP policy=
*The Demise of the American Middle Class In Numbers.*

Over the past 35 years the American dream has gradually disappeared. The process was slow, so most people didn’t notice. They just worked a few more hours, borrowed a little more and cut back on non-essentials. But looking at the numbers and comparing them over long time periods, it is obvious that things have changed drastically. Here are the details:

*1. WORKERS PRODUCE MORE BUT THE GAINS GO TO BUSINESS.*

Over the past 63 years worker productivity has grown by 2.0% per year.

But after 1980, workers received a smaller share every year. Labor’s share of income (1992 = 100%):

1950 = 101%
1960 = 105%
1970 = 105%
1980 = 105%  – Reagan
1990 = 100%
2000 =  96%
2007 =  92%

*A 13% drop since 1980*

*2. THE TOP 10% GET A LARGER SHARE.*

Share of National Income going to Top 10%:

1950 = 35%
1960 = 34%
1970 = 34%
1980 = 34% – Reagan
1990 = 40%
2000 = 47%
2007 = 50%

*An increase of 16% since Reagan.*

*3. WORKERS COMPENSATED FOR THE LOSS OF INCOME BY SPENDING THEIR SAVINGS.*

The savings Rose up to Reagan and fell during and after.

1950 = 6.0%
1960 = 7.0%
1970 = 8.5%
1980 = 10.0% – Reagan
1982 = 11.2% – Peak
1990 = 7.0%
2000 = 2.0%
2006 = -1.1% (Negative = withdrawing from savings)

*A 12.3% drop after Reagan.*

*4. WORKERS ALSO BORROWED TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS.*

Household Debt as percentage of GDP:

1965 = 46%
1970 = 45%
1980 = 50% – Reagan
1990 = 61%
2000 = 69%
2007 = 95%

A 45% increase after 1980.

*5. SO THE GAP BETWEEN THE RICHEST AND THE POOREST HAS GROWN.*

Gap Between the Share of Capital Income earned by the top 1%
and the bottom 80%:

1980 = 10%
2003 = 56%

*A 5.6 times increase.*

*6. AND THE AMERICAN DREAM IS GONE.*

The Probably of Moving Up from the Bottom 40% to the Top 40%:

1945 = 12%
1958 =  6%
1990 =  3%
2000 =  2%

*A 10% Decrease.*

Links:

1 = ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/pf/totalf1.txt
1 = https://www.clevelandfed.org/Research/PolicyDis/No7Nov04.pdf
1 = Clipboard01.jpg (image)
2 – http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/blog/09/04/27/CongratulationstoEmmanuelSaez/
3 = http://www.demos.org/inequality/images/charts/uspersonalsaving_thumb.gif
3 = U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)
4 = http://www.prudentbear.com/index.php/household-sector-debt-of-gdp
4 = http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/current/
5/6 = http://www.businessinsider.com/15-c...lity-in-america-2010-4?slop=1#slideshow-start

Overview = http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010062415/reagan-revolution-home-roost-charts


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Everything good for the poor has come from Dems, as I've proved- and the last 35 years has been the New BS GOP cutting those programs...


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


I vote for the pro-union party, stupid. Everything else is useless.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



When have I blocked it? Man you are one dumb SOB! Sorry you aren't worth minimum wage.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Third party means I didn't support the GOP candidate, because people like Hillary would never get my vote, she is too corrupt. She reminds me of you a hypocrite who expects others to do but not do it yourself.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



You need the blacks poor, that is why you keep them there, if the Democrats moved them out of poverty, they could lose a voting block, you can't have that.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



You don't buy union so you are not helping them at all, you are just enforcing to them why unions aren't working.

You claim everyone should belong to  a union, yet you never did, you are a hypocrite.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


As long as you vote GOP or 3rd party duh...


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


"Hilary is corrupt" is pure BS GOP propaganda, dupe...and cowardly corporate media thrown in. ALL investigated, NOTHING.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Means nothing if the GOP busts them...and cut the stupid bs.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Look up brainwashed. Idiot.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


I voted for a Dem for the House, it's no big deal. If the candidate meets my criteria, I'll vote for him. Years ago I wanted Kucinich to win but you nutters wouldn't nominate the guy. Just like Sanders, I would have voted for him over Trump or Clinton but again the Democrats wanted the rich white girl.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



She lied over and over and over and over again, she couldn't even tell us what a classified email was? LOL!


----------



## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



You said everyone should belong to a union, yet you never did, you are full of shit! You are a first class hypocrite.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


I did, it has your picture next to the definition.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


That is ridiculous.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


No lies at all. Comey is a GOP douchebag.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



if violent unions are good to force better pay for some why not for all? Just pass a violent law to force all wages to $100 per hour. No more poverty and just one simple little law!


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Unions were violent back in the 30's lol...man....


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## danielpalos (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


The left is on board with a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, that is a solution to social services paying fourteen dollars an hour; the right has no economic answers, only social answers.


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## danielpalos (May 1, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


repeal is not a better solution at lower cost.


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## danielpalos (May 1, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Nothing but Red Herrings, right wing fisherman?

Why do they need a tax break, if it doesn't affect them?


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## danielpalos (May 1, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


so what; nobody is claiming they are, but red herring fishermen on the right wing.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



You said it jackass!


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



So are you douche, she lied over and over and over. She even claimed she sent tons of emails to her husband and he said he didn't use email. Then there is the lie about her not having two phones, the lady can't help it. She is corrupt and has to lie.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Never expect a GOP dupe to make sense...


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


RW BS blown out of all proportion, malevolent gossip, for chumps only. The GOP and its bought off pundits lie nonstop about the facts and policy so they can rip off you and the country- not to mention character assassination. The rich pay all the taxes, we had the best health care-nobody was dying, see sig for all the lies and what they don't tell. Obama had 2 years of control and his policies BS!, crap. A disgrace.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



They are violent now. 

Longview labor dispute escalates with violence, Washington port shutdowns

National Right to Work Foundation  » UNION MILITANTS TERRORIZE WORKERS

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/21/us/philadelphia-union-leader-is-convicted-of-extortion.html?_r=0

Union Leaders on Trial for Racketeering and Extortion Plead Guilty


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Are you denying that you posted it in this thread?


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Poor shytte head, you can't face the facts or the truth. Maybe one day you will grow up.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


That doesn't mean I have to organize them, dingbat lol.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



I didn't say that shytte head. You claim everyone should belong to a union and made excuses why you didn't. You don't believe in unions, you are like all the other people on this board that say the love unions. 

You never belonged to one, you don't buy from union shops, you don't even own a union car, you just give lip service. You bitch about me, I belonged to a union, shop at union grocery store, owned GMC and Chrysler all my life. 

I do more for unions and support them more than you ever have. You little fool.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


That's what happens when the GOP and corps and CEOs screw them and workers for 35 years...


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


You don't vote for them DUHHH. That's politics. This a politics MB. Ferchrissake all I said was everyone should be in a union lol. They're now 7% of private workers thanks to the union busting GOP. Who you parrot all day long here. Hillary is beloved by unions but you believe a pile of GOP shytte about her. So you fecked everything good and true AGAIN. I've bought well used cars all my life lol, so eat shytte and die, dupe. lol. I If I had the money I'd buy an Alfa. lol. Jeebus what a stupid a-hole. My father always bought Chryslers and voted Dem. NOT a GOP tool either of us.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...




And you told me that only happened in the 30's, another hater dupe lie. Sad you have to lie all the time.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


You parrot GOP lies all day long. You're a GOP dupe.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


It IS coming back, because of ignorant dupes like you destroying unions not voting for Dems- but buying union. Useless POS dupe.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



She won the union vote by only 8% dupe! The worst showing by a Democratic candidate since 1984. What a liar! Grow up and quit lying like Hillary. 

Also Honda is not unionized and never has been. Stupid lying asshole.


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Trying to make excuses for your lie? Blaming other for getting caught in a lie? Lol! You are so pathetic.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

And mainly parroting ridiculous GOP myth like the OP- absolutely ignorant hate propaganda.


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Stupid GOP union dupes duh. I said the unions love her, not the silly dupe members...

 In Japan? They're not stupid Americans watching Fox and Rush...


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## Papageorgio (May 1, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
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Union leaders love her because like with Obama they would have got kickbacks and favors. Union members, the ones you don't give a shytte about, didn't care for her.

Funny you bought the foreign car before Fox and Rush were even on the air. You bought a foreign car and flipped the UAW the bird, what a hypocrite!

Every post you expose yourself more and more as a hypocritical douche. Lol!


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## francoHFW (May 1, 2017)

BS. If you earn less than 250k and vote GOP, you're a dupe. More than 250, and you're a dupe or a selfish a-hole.I vote for the party that supports unions and the working man and the country, and you don't. AND you spread total hate bs like the OP- absolute RW idiocy, as anyone not brainwashed by crap would know after hearing the truth for 40 pages...I wanted to buy an Dodge Omni but they were CRAP. And NOT because of the unions but because of arrogant stupid GOP management. Thanks Obama for saving GM and Chrysler-Fiat-ALFA.


You lose again, ignorant dupe of the greedy idiot lying GOP rich a-holes...


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## jc456 (May 2, 2017)

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too funny.  maybe not, but there'd still be a GM.


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## jc456 (May 2, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> BS. If you earn less than 250k and vote GOP, you're a dupe. More than 250, and you're a dupe or a selfish a-hole.I vote for the party that supports unions and the working man and the country, and you don't. AND you spread total hate bs like the OP- absolute RW idiocy, as anyone not brainwashed by crap would know after hearing the truth for 40 pages...I wanted to buy an Dodge Omni but they were CRAP. And NOT because of the unions but because of arrogant stupid GOP management. Thanks Obama for saving GM and Chrysler-Fiat-ALFA.
> 
> 
> You lose again, ignorant dupe of the greedy idiot lying GOP rich a-holes...


your hypocrisy on profiling is stupendous.


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## jc456 (May 2, 2017)

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we understand.  your lack of common sense is duly noted in here.  as are most libturds.  If common sense was needed to keep people alive, the conservatives would be one happy group of people.


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## jc456 (May 2, 2017)

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sure it is.  the purpose of obummerfail was for less than 10% of the population.  We can figure something else out for them and give the 90% back their insurance and money.


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## jc456 (May 2, 2017)

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## danielpalos (May 2, 2017)

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don't you think, that if the right wing had anything more than repeal, they would already be doing that very thing?


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## danielpalos (May 2, 2017)

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I believe in unemployment compensation on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States, for Labor that may not be ready for, "prime time".


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## jc456 (May 2, 2017)

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sometimes I just have to laugh.  dude, to make the changes necessary the senate needs 60 votes.  you really think the dems are going to work with the repubs?  really?  But, they can repeal and force their hand.  That is why I'm for it.


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## jc456 (May 2, 2017)

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dude, are you like the Eveready bunny hitting a fking wall or something.  I have no idea what this gibberish is supposed to mean.  I have asked at least five times for you to present this in english.  And you keep repeating the gibberish.


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## Papageorgio (May 2, 2017)

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I believe in giving career students a trailer to live in and a fishing pole so they can eat.


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## Papageorgio (May 2, 2017)

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I have asked him to clarify some of his talking points and he doesn't. He just makes shit up and then pretends he knows what he is talking about. 

That is why he has no credibility when it comes to economics and at will work.


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## francoHFW (May 2, 2017)

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Not.


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## jc456 (May 2, 2017)

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sure there would.  you're a fool to think differently.  There may not be saturns, but there'd be chevies and buicks and GMCs.  it is simply amazing the level of stupid you spew.


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## francoHFW (May 2, 2017)

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RW common sense is a brainwashed joke. They believe a pile of crap propaganda and parrot idiotic talking points and ridiculous insults, and don't know 3/4 of the news...change the channel.


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## jc456 (May 2, 2017)

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talking points?  TALKING POINTS?  Son,  too funny.  The only people with talking points is the left.  they live and breathe with talking points.  One mind is what the left is.  wrapped up like a burrito.


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## francoHFW (May 2, 2017)

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There was no money around for anyone to pick up the pieces. The GOP would have presided over a full blown corrupt depression like 1929-32.


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## jc456 (May 2, 2017)

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sure there was.  It's called bankruptcy you goofball.


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## francoHFW (May 2, 2017)

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Sorry, we don't HAVE a FOX/Rush propaganda machine for the dupes. It's a disgrace, as are you. There's that, and then there's the rest of the world media. You're a dupe of about 8 greedy lying RW media billionaires, fool.


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## francoHFW (May 2, 2017)

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Only the gov't had money, and the GOP would only use it to bail out the greedy idiot GOP cronies on Wall ST/private lenders who caused it DUH.


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## francoHFW (May 2, 2017)

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You chumps and GOP scammers can only figure out tax cuts for the rich and how to wreck the world. You're a total dupe.


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## jc456 (May 2, 2017)

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seeing I don't listen to the idiots in the media, it would be hard pressed to talk about what they say.  Profiling is a very strange tool to use to justify a post.  but I know, it is part of the talking points memo to bring up FOX and Rush and all of them.  When you submit your timesheet, I can sign it stating you used the talking points from the memo.


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## jc456 (May 2, 2017)

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and more talking points.  wow, you're good at this.

Do you have any original thoughts?


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## Papageorgio (May 2, 2017)

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Franco parrots the left wing party almost verbatim. He doesn't have his own thoughts, just the thoughts he is told.


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## francoHFW (May 2, 2017)

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Seeing Fox/Rush etc RUN the New BS GOP, that might help. So where tf DO you get their BS, talking to dupes?


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## danielpalos (May 2, 2017)

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They have both houses of Congress now, why nothing but repeal?


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## danielpalos (May 2, 2017)

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dude; I have told you each and every time, what it is about.  It is not my fault, you are simply, clueless and Causeless.


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## jc456 (May 2, 2017)

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I have to laugh again, dude, I'm my own person.  I read materials from many outlets, I process it and I make observations from reactions to specific topics.  I watch the libturds daily on the broadcast channels and I fight getting sick at the miss information that is presented and talk to the tv and radio about what isn't being reported.  Hilarious.  When I do watch interviews with the left, they always use their talking points.  They have to be, they all say exactly the same things.  It is quite fking obvious who uses talking points.  BTW, I'm still waiting on evidence of any russia hacking.  just saying.  I've seen ten senators and representatives from the left and they spew the same line.  need an investigation.  Well fk, there's been a fking investigation for eight months now.  still zip.  And still the talking line need an investigation.  Also, the libturds have never ever offered up how to help the poor.  evah. all they wish to do is to throw money at them and keep them quite.  SAD.....


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## danielpalos (May 2, 2017)

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Just right wing, "hate on the poor"?


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## jc456 (May 2, 2017)

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I already explained, they need 60 votes in the senate.  they don't have a majority, they have a simple majority. 51 votes.  Can't do much there.  just can't And we already know the libs will be obstructionists, schumer said so.  They cannot afford Trump to be successful.  It is a sad day in the country that party trumps country.


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## jc456 (May 2, 2017)

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where? you keep falling over yourself there. here, I'll show you again.


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## jc456 (May 2, 2017)

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I know, you keep posting gibberish and expect we know your language.  It doesn't work that way.  Most all of us use English.  you should try it and perhaps we could answer your fking question.


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## francoHFW (May 2, 2017)

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You're going to wait a long time. It's all classified and dangerous. It's a CONSPIRACEE!!!!!

Yes, facts are repetitious.


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## jc456 (May 2, 2017)

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well when you present a fact rather than a talking point a real discussion can happen.  until then though all you got is mumbo jumbo talking points.  The world is moving forward without you all.


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## francoHFW (May 2, 2017)

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Hilarious after the last 8 years. The New BS GOP even voted against their own ideas, in the middle of their own corrupt great recession. I just hope I live long enough to see another period of real Dem control like under FDR, LBL, and Obama(Only 3 weeks in session-all ACA).


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## jc456 (May 2, 2017)

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it was a very hilarious last eight years.  I agree.  I am enjoying the cleanup.  as I said we're moving forward. you and obummer can stay in your failed past.


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## francoHFW (May 2, 2017)

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Here's a good one- We basically have a flat tax system after 35 years of Voodoo. With rich getting all the new wealth and the nonrich and the country going to hell all that time.

*After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!!*


By Ezra Klein September 19, 2012
At the heart of the debate over "the 47 percent" is an awful abuse of tax data.

This entire conversation is the result of a (largely successful) effort to redefine the debate over taxes from "how much in taxes do you pay" to "how much in federal income taxes do you pay?" This is good framing if you want to cut taxes on the rich. It's bad framing if you want to have even a basic understanding of who pays how much in taxes.

There's a reason some would prefer that more limited conversation. For most Americans, payroll and state and local taxes make up the majority of their tax bill. The federal income tax, by contrast, is our most progressive tax -- it's the tax we've designed to place the heaviest burden on the rich while bypassing the poor. And we've done that, again, because the working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.

But most people don't know very much about the tax code. And the federal income tax is still our most famous tax. So when they hear that half of Americans aren't paying federal income taxes, they're outraged -- even if they're among the folks who have a net negative tax burden! After all, they know they're paying taxes, and there's no reason for normal human beings to assume that the taxes getting taken out of their paycheck every week and some of the taxes they pay at the end of the year aren't classified as "federal income taxes."

Confining the discussion to the federal income tax plays another role, too: It makes the tax code look much more progressive than it actually is.

Take someone who makes $4 million dollars a year and someone who makes $40,000 a year. The person making $4 million dollars, assuming he's not doing some Romney-esque planning, is paying a 35 percent tax on most of that money. The person making $40,000 is probably paying no income tax at all. So that makes the system look really unfair to the rich guy.

That's the basic analysis of the 47 percent line. And it's a basic analysis that serves a purpose: It makes further tax cuts for the rich sound more reasonable.

But what if we did the same thing for the payroll tax? Remember, the payroll tax only applies to first $110,100 or so, our rich friends is only paying payroll taxes on 2.7 percent of his income. The guy making $40,000? He's paying payroll taxes on every dollar of his income. Now who's not getting a fair shake?

Which is why, if you want to understand who's paying what in taxes, you don't want to just look at federal income taxes, or federal payroll taxes, or state sales taxes -- you want to look at total taxes. And, luckily, the tax analysis group Citizens for Tax Justice keeps those numbers. So here is total taxes -- which includes corporate taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and more -- paid by different income groups and broken into federal and state and local burdens:








As you can see, the poorer you are, the more state and local taxes bite into your income. As you get richer, those taxes recede, and you're mainly getting hit be federal taxes. So that's another lesson: When you omit state and local taxes from your analysis, you're omitting the taxes that hit lower-income taxpayers hardest.


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## jc456 (May 2, 2017)

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2012. nice. still in the past.  been through it all for you soooo many times it has become exhaustive.  again, you know not what you discuss here.


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## francoHFW (May 2, 2017)

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Clean up what, dupe? Go back to another corrupt GOP meltdown? Scam health system? The economy is just Reaganism rolling on...
*After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!!

"I know, a tax cut for the rich!!!" RW idiocy...*


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## francoHFW (May 2, 2017)

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Nothing's changed DUHHHHH....

Got some more new BS 
talking points LOL?

This is from 2007: Still true, just WORSE!
*After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!!*


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## imawhosure (May 2, 2017)

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That is correct, the United States is a hell hole, just like Super-Duper-Diaper-Pooper says, lol.  Notice how nobody wants to get in here, geeze!

Maybe that brilliant Super-Duper Guy ought to look WHY college tuitions started rising so much, lol.

In any case, I know he and his group got reprieve as Trump and company needs to do tax reform and an Obamacare fix of some sort, but if I was them, I would get a lot of KY for September.  I warned you, so if you have no lubricant, don't blame us-)


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## francoHFW (May 2, 2017)

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OTOH, slightly better than what it would be with no Obama...


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## jc456 (May 2, 2017)

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ahhh look at them talking points.


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## francoHFW (May 2, 2017)

imawhosure said:


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Almost free pubic colleges became expensive under Reaganism>no competition? Ditto college loans? All to save the richest from paying their fair share?


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## francoHFW (May 2, 2017)

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All proven facts, dupe. Ay caramba...Let's see ONE from you, dupe of RW BS.

*The Demise of the American Middle Class In Numbers.*

Over the past 35 years the American dream has gradually disappeared. The process was slow, so most people didn’t notice. They just worked a few more hours, borrowed a little more and cut back on non-essentials. But looking at the numbers and comparing them over long time periods, it is obvious that things have changed drastically. Here are the details:

*1. WORKERS PRODUCE MORE BUT THE GAINS GO TO BUSINESS.*

Over the past 63 years worker productivity has grown by 2.0% per year.

But after 1980, workers received a smaller share every year. Labor’s share of income (1992 = 100%):

1950 = 101%
1960 = 105%
1970 = 105%
1980 = 105%  – Reagan
1990 = 100%
2000 =  96%
2007 =  92%

*A 13% drop since 1980*

*2. THE TOP 10% GET A LARGER SHARE.*

Share of National Income going to Top 10%:

1950 = 35%
1960 = 34%
1970 = 34%
1980 = 34% – Reagan
1990 = 40%
2000 = 47%
2007 = 50%

*An increase of 16% since Reagan.*

*3. WORKERS COMPENSATED FOR THE LOSS OF INCOME BY SPENDING THEIR SAVINGS.*

The savings Rose up to Reagan and fell during and after.

1950 = 6.0%
1960 = 7.0%
1970 = 8.5%
1980 = 10.0% – Reagan
1982 = 11.2% – Peak
1990 = 7.0%
2000 = 2.0%
2006 = -1.1% (Negative = withdrawing from savings)

*A 12.3% drop after Reagan.*

*4. WORKERS ALSO BORROWED TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS.*

Household Debt as percentage of GDP:

1965 = 46%
1970 = 45%
1980 = 50% – Reagan
1990 = 61%
2000 = 69%
2007 = 95%

A 45% increase after 1980.

*5. SO THE GAP BETWEEN THE RICHEST AND THE POOREST HAS GROWN.*

Gap Between the Share of Capital Income earned by the top 1%
and the bottom 80%:

1980 = 10%
2003 = 56%

*A 5.6 times increase.*

*6. AND THE AMERICAN DREAM IS GONE.*

The Probably of Moving Up from the Bottom 40% to the Top 40%:

1945 = 12%
1958 =  6%
1990 =  3%
2000 =  2%

*A 10% Decrease.*

Links:

1 = ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/pf/totalf1.txt
1 = https://www.clevelandfed.org/Research/PolicyDis/No7Nov04.pdf
1 = Clipboard01.jpg (image)
2 – http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/blog/09/04/27/CongratulationstoEmmanuelSaez/
3 = http://www.demos.org/inequality/images/charts/uspersonalsaving_thumb.gif
3 = U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)
4 = http://www.prudentbear.com/index.php/household-sector-debt-of-gdp
4 = http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/current/
5/6 = http://www.businessinsider.com/15-c...lity-in-america-2010-4?slop=1#slideshow-start

Overview = http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010062415/reagan-revolution-home-roost-charts


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## danielpalos (May 2, 2017)

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Why sixty votes?  They have a majority in both houses; they only need sixty votes if they have, nothing but repeal.


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## danielpalos (May 2, 2017)

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Just right wing advertising for their "work or die" ethic, even if they are not ready for "prime time".


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## EdwardBaiamonte (May 2, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Over the past 35 years the American dream has gradually disappeared.


because liberal unions taxes regulations shipped their jobs to offshore then invited in 30 million illegals to take what was left and drive down wages.

Plus liberals declared war on our schools families religions thus rendering many Americans unfit for middle class jobs.


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## francoHFW (May 2, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


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BS
12 million LOL- GOP refuses unfakable SS ID card that would end that. Also refuse programs to train workers for techie and other good jobs new free trade markets produce- so the Germans etc get them.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (May 2, 2017)

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 so sent 12 million home and open 12 million jobs for American. Liberals want the votes so always drag their heels and Hillary dreams of open borders


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## EdwardBaiamonte (May 2, 2017)

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too stupid!!! millions already spent and wasted on job training through 147 govt training programs. Stupid anyway since corporations train their own employess as needed or go bankrupt!!


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## Papageorgio (May 2, 2017)

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All he has is "hater dupe", excuses and blame.


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## francoHFW (May 2, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


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94% of adult illegals work, 67% pay taxes, 35% own homes- they belong. Stop more coming with unfakable SS ID card. Wall is a joke.


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## Papageorgio (May 2, 2017)

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Left wing loves the unions, hate the union worker. Just like they hate poor blacks who try to succeed.


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## francoHFW (May 2, 2017)

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We want to educate union dupes, like you. and ridiculous bs. A union man voting for the GOP is misinformed idiocy.


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## Papageorgio (May 2, 2017)

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Why does the left hate the union worker and the poor blacks who try to succeed? Why do they call the man that runs the union a fat cat and yet crap on the union worker?


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## francoHFW (May 2, 2017)

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The GOP has ruined unions. And the poor.


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## Papageorgio (May 2, 2017)

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And the Democrats hate the union worker, love the unions and hate poor blacks.


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## francoHFW (May 2, 2017)

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Examples?


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## danielpalos (May 2, 2017)

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Health care reform and a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, is "walking the walk"; unlike the right wing, which likes to "specialize" in, "talking the talk".


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## Papageorgio (May 2, 2017)

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Left wing loves the union, the kickbacks, the paybacks, the thugs, they hate the union worker who they command by force. The blacks who step out of line, pay for their independence. The left has hate, diversion and blame.


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## Papageorgio (May 2, 2017)

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Dupe, you said it yourself, your disdain for the worker was made obvious in an earlier post. Go Japan and their unions! Don't buy from American unions! Franco the hypocrite and hater of the working class!


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## danielpalos (May 2, 2017)

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they may have too much time on their hands, simply because the right has nothing but repeal.


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## francoHFW (May 3, 2017)

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Jeebus what an idiot lol...Vote Dem or you're a dupe of the greedy a-hole GOP and no friend of the working man or the middle class.


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## jc456 (May 3, 2017)

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why do you believe healthcare needs to be reformed?  I though obummerfail was your signature program?  WTF?


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## danielpalos (May 3, 2017)

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The right wing still has nothing but repeal.  The democrats already forwarded, Health care reform and a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage


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## Papageorgio (May 3, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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you can't explain your own hatred? I am the working middle class, you aren't. You have no idea what my needs are nor does a union leader or a Democratic congressperson. Washington is out of touch with the real America and only pretend they know and you fall for their pretending. Funny stuff hater dupe. 

Put up  a real honest candidate and I will vote for a Democrat, Hillary was a candidate for the rich, not for the middle class. The candidate best fitting the middle class was Sanders and you hater dupes rigged the election for Hillary and you got your asses handed to you.


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## danielpalos (May 3, 2017)

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and health care, is helping the middle class.


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## Papageorgio (May 3, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and health care, is helping the middle class.



Interesting opinion, however I don't believe you are right.


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## francoHFW (May 3, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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Hillary was for all the same stuff as Sanders- or on the way there, her character was assassinated for 25 years by GOP bs, russians, and Comey- along with their great foundation, and you believed the bs, dupe. Bernie said the rigging was bs too.I have no hatred AT ALL, except for the crap you believe and the a-holes who invented it. You need more money, better services and opportunities, paid for by the bloated rich. Bernie and Hillary and all Dems agree. If you don't you're a total scumbag or misinformed.


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## francoHFW (May 3, 2017)

jc456 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
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You are misinformed. ACA is a basic framework that will need be tinkered with forever. It's saved poor workers and gets people off welfare, pre-existing, etc. Its cost cutting needs time and more regulation to work. And less GOP/crony sabotage.


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## jc456 (May 3, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
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## francoHFW (May 3, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
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That's you alright lol. Any actual argument or comment?


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## jc456 (May 3, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
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dude, there are no words in any language that could respond to your silly post.  so I just wanted to let you know that it wasn't graceful in any way and a fail.


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## francoHFW (May 3, 2017)

jc456 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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Nothing intelligent at all? I didn't think so...


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## Papageorgio (May 3, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
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No she wasn't even Bernie will tell you the same, but keep your  head buried in the sand, it allows us all to kick your ass.


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## Papageorgio (May 3, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> jc456 said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
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How has ACA gotten people off welfare?


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## EdwardBaiamonte (May 3, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> ACA is a basic framework that will need be tinkered with forever.



you mean tinkered with forever by libNazis monopolist bureaucrats. Stalin Mao Castro already tried that and 120 million slowly starved to death! The Republican free market would cut prices 80% and add 10-20 years to our life expectencies. Do you understand why?


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## Thinker101 (May 3, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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You mean tinkered with until you get your "fair share"?


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## danielpalos (May 3, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and health care, is helping the middle class.
> ...


your unsubstantiated opinion is duly noted.  have an actual argument, to substantiate your currently, unsubstantiated opinion?

From my perspective, the right wing still has nothing but repeal, instead of any better solution at potentially lower cost; yet, the right wing still claims, a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and healthcare for the poor, is "nothing" that solves poverty.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (May 3, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> How has ACA gotten people off welfare?



by far the most significant aspect of ACA was to put 15 million in Medicaid welfare!!
If Barry had been upfront instead of lying it never would have passed!!


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## danielpalos (May 3, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
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> > jc456 said:
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You are confusing welfare with poverty.


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## danielpalos (May 3, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > ACA is a basic framework that will need be tinkered with forever.
> ...


Just lousy management of last millennium.  We are in modern times, now.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (May 3, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Just lousy management[in China USSR other communist countries] of last millennium.  We are in modern times, now.



yes and Venezuela is proving it daily!! Did you hear they just decided to end poverty by raising the minimum wage 60%. I wonder why no one thought of that before!! All the creativity is on the communist side!!


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## Papageorgio (May 3, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
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No I am asking you how gets people off of welfare? You made the statement, can you explain it?


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## Papageorgio (May 3, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Just lousy management[in China USSR other communist countries] of last millennium.  We are in modern times, now.
> ...



We need to raise minimum wage to $100 an hour. No one working would be in poverty and no one working would be poor, then we all can afford the healthcare we want and not have Obamacare.

I can quit my job and work an easy minimum wage job, no stress and part time.

Not much easier than, "Would like like fries with that?"


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## francoHFW (May 3, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
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Damn close. Examples?


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## francoHFW (May 3, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


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Before ACA, and Medicaid for those making up to 13.7k/year, even in NYS you had to make less than $800/mo to get  it- many red states $0/month. So you had to go on welfare to get insurance, not now. Also HEAVILY subsidized OVER $13k. But people pay what they can...


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## francoHFW (May 3, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


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> 
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> > danielpalos said:
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Socialist (DEMOCRATIC) still in Venezuela...They're just trying to stay up with inflation there. Anf fighting off the corrupt oligarchs. What a 3rd worlld mess. Thanks for the world depresssion, GOP and dupes.


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## TyroneSlothrop (May 3, 2017)

- Every time we try trickle down economics it does not work. Check out Kansas and Louisiana if you have any questions.



 John Weaver @JWGOP 
*There's something about masturbating to Ayn Rand in college that screws with the mind.*

 8:35 PM - 3 May 2017 · Austin, TX


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## Papageorgio (May 3, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
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Sanders single payer, Clinton no. 
Marijuana, Sanders wants legalization and let the state's make the decisions, Clinton want to reduce the classification, not for legalizing. 
Sanders wanted to reinstate Glass-Steagall, Hillary doesn't.
Clinton wanted to help train Syria to fight ISIS, Sanders opposed it. 
Sanders opposed a Syrian no fly zone, Clinton supported it.
Sanders said leave Afghanistan, Clinton wanted to maintain troops.


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## francoHFW (May 3, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


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You dupes know nothing of course. Every other country keeps working on their systems DUHHHH. We just got started...HOW THE FUQ do you think we managed to get up to 18% of gdp spent on health care? The bought off GOP, that's how, dupe.


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## francoHFW (May 3, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
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Sanders would have been made out a hippie commie by the GOP if he'd been nominated- nobody laid a hand on him. Hey, I voted for him in NYS primary...At any rate, she was always for the same direction as Bernie...


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## Markle (May 3, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> by far the most significant aspect of ACA was to put 15 million in Medicaid welfare!!
> If Barry had been upfront instead of lying it never would have passed!!



The Obamacare architect said it best, many times.


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## francoHFW (May 3, 2017)

Markle said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > by far the most significant aspect of ACA was to put 15 million in Medicaid welfare!!
> ...


That guy was an idiot geek...should have mentioned the GOP propaganda machine spinning and fear mongering everything out of sight....ie, brainwashed FUNCTIONAL morons/dupes like you...


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## danielpalos (May 3, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Just lousy management[in China USSR other communist countries] of last millennium.  We are in modern times, now.
> ...


lol.  a command economy should command economize its way to prosperity; it depends on what they can advance, for a "second wave".


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## danielpalos (May 3, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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You are confusing poverty with welfare; a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, helps people privatize costs via that increased wage, instead of asking for more welfare.


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## danielpalos (May 3, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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What about an, "aggressive natural rate of unemployment" where you can opt to stay out of the labor market for poverty clearing wages, or opt for a one million dollar a year salary for wanting to actually work, and pay more in taxes.


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## danielpalos (May 3, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Just lousy management[in China USSR other communist countries] of last millennium.  We are in modern times, now.
> ...


Red herrings are a right wing specialty.



> In May 2006, the government of the United States announced an embargo of military material and equipment to Venezuela; no American-made weapons or technology can be sold to Venezuela by any country or company.[74] This embargo has harmed several Venezuelan purchases, as not only are U.S. technology goods unavailable, but other nations friendly to the U.S. have been pressured to block sales of arms to Venezuela, as well. This is also considered one of the reasons Venezuela has turned to Russia and China for arms, in a move reminiscent of the Cold War.--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bolivarian_Armed_Forces_of_Venezuela#Controversy_with_the_United_States



Guess that doesn't help with domestic policy, does it.


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## Papageorgio (May 3, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
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Move minimum wage to $100, no poor, no welfare, no food stamps, it could get a less stress part time job, "Would you like fries with that?"


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## Papageorgio (May 3, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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No you said, "it gets people off of welfare." How does the ACA get people "off of welfare" as you claim?


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## danielpalos (May 3, 2017)

Markle said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > by far the most significant aspect of ACA was to put 15 million in Medicaid welfare!!
> ...


health care reform is something; the right wing hasn't even started trying to sell, vaporware yet; nothing but repeal is their common answer, it is not a general answer.


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## Papageorgio (May 3, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
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$100 an hour gets us all off of welfare, no stress, nothing beats "Would you like fries with that." I can work part time instead of managing full time, add single provider paid by government. Easy money, easy healthcare, doctors, construction workers can all go to less stress jobs.


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## Papageorgio (May 3, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
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> > francoHFW said:
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He had my vote, had the corrupt democrats let him have a fair chance, instead of setting up against him, I would have voted for the man, not the corrupt woman.

Told you they were different but stupid partisan dupes falsely claim otherwise to save face.


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## francoHFW (May 3, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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Because they can work and still get health care now duh. Raised the limit of income for Medicaid from $0-800/month to $13.7k/year, and gives subsidies above that. Living is helpful.


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## francoHFW (May 3, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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Bernie said it was fair- no evidence of actual rigging.


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## Papageorgio (May 3, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



So they pay 100% of their healthcare? Could they not have done that before, since it was cheaper?


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## Papageorgio (May 3, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
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Emails showed it was rigged, wasserman schultz lost her position for it. A Democratic Senator admitted they sent the questions to Hillary, super delegates cast their all their votes to Hillary right after the first caucus. Man you are a partisan dipshit, does Hillary let you out of her ass for air?


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## Thinker101 (May 3, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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Guess Bernie didn't get the email....from the DNC


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## francoHFW (May 3, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
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> > Papageorgio said:
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Only in dupe world...staffers BSing means NOTHING. or link...


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## francoHFW (May 3, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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What? Who pays? They can WORK and get Medicaid or insurance now...


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## francoHFW (May 3, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> francoHFW said:
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> > Papageorgio said:
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The DNC didn't DO shytte. They BSed on e-mails- like the punditocracy and their dupes....Bernie said so too.


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## Thinker101 (May 3, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
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Yup, and Debbie Wasserman won a first place prize and decided to take a vacation half way through.


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## Papageorgio (May 3, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
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So they pay for the insurance? Why couldn't they pay for it a few years ago?


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## francoHFW (May 3, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
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She was on very thin ice already. RW propaganda is very strong stuff in that case.


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## francoHFW (May 3, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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^^Totally clueless about ACA...


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## Papageorgio (May 4, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
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Can't answer any of the questions and you call me clueless? 

Who is paying for their insurance? 

If the question is too tough, I could break it down for you.


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## danielpalos (May 4, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


There is no unemployment, Only underpayment.   An "aggressive natural rate of unemployment", attempts to solve for that.

What about an, "aggressive natural rate of unemployment" where you can opt to stay out of the labor market for poverty clearing wages, or opt for a one million dollar a year salary for wanting to actually work, and pay more in taxes.

we could call it, "winning the work ethic lottery".


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## danielpalos (May 4, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
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> 
> > Papageorgio said:
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either the public sector or the private sector.


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## Papageorgio (May 4, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
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So if the public sector is paying, it is called welfare, so ACA helps no one off welfare because ACA is welfare by nature.


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## sartre play (May 4, 2017)

How can any one hate a person because of the color of there skin. or because they live a different life style, where has tolerance gone?


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## francoHFW (May 4, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
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So many go back on actual welfare to get care, and the rest go back to a cycle of ER care and bankruptcy or death. You still pay, and just as much. With no solutions in sight...Great job!


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## danielpalos (May 4, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Health care ameliorates poverty, via welfare.  A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, helps "wean" people off welfare.


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## Papageorgio (May 4, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



You said that ACA moved people off welfare, did you not?

ACA that is funded by public money is welfare, so ACA doesn't get people off of welfare.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (May 4, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



By far major impact of ACA was to put 15 million on Medicaid welfare. If Barry had told the truth about this ACA never would never have been passed. Liberals stand for one thing: more welfare and leeching and less work!!


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## EdwardBaiamonte (May 4, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> .  A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, helps "wean" people off welfare.



that's a 60% increase!! Exactly what Venezuela started on Monday!! A good communist idea to instantly end poverty!! Who knew it was so simple!!!


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## francoHFW (May 4, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


There is no such thing as welfare Medicaid, hater dupe.The great majority are working, disabled, in school, or looking for work. With ACA you don't have to stop working and go on REAL WELFARE to get health insurance. Your hate for the poor, the poorer, and working class blinds you, dupe.
Myths About The Medicaid Expansion And The ‘Able-Bodied’


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## francoHFW (May 4, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > .  A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, helps "wean" people off welfare.
> ...


Feq Venezuela, dupe, A collapsed 3rd world mess thanks to the GOP corrupt world depression. They had to raise their wages just to keep up with inflation.


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## danielpalos (May 4, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
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No, that is your Red Herring.  I claim it helps ameliorate poverty; a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage helps people get off welfare.


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## danielpalos (May 4, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > .  A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, helps "wean" people off welfare.
> ...


Just socialism bailing out capitalism, like usual.


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## Thinker101 (May 4, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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Max months on welfare would also "wean" them off.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (May 4, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


So the GOP is responsible for Venezuela's  bad economy and not communism?? Was the GOP responsible for Communist China's   bad economy to  when 60 million slowly starve to death ? See why we are positive that liberalism is based in pure ignorance? Venezuela could adopt a Republican capitalism tomorrow just like Chyna did in 1980 and start getting rich tomorrow. 1+1 = 2


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## danielpalos (May 4, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
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Ending the capital gains preference for the rich, would increase revenue to help pay for social services, since they don't engender any Jobs Booms.


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## Thinker101 (May 4, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Say what???  You're blaming Venezuela on the GOP....


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## Thinker101 (May 5, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
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Hate to tell ya, capital gains is not really a "preference" for the rich.  That option is available to everyone.  So I'm guessing you really don't have a clue regarding capital gains and how it works.


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## Papageorgio (May 5, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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It no red herring, it is a fact you think we should discard.

You made he claim that the ACA moved people off welfare, the ACA *IS* welfare. Those that pay a discounted premium is, in effect getting welfare. 

Why is this welfare something you don't accept?


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## Papageorgio (May 5, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
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If it rains tomorrow, francotard will blame the GOP, that is what hatred does, it is all consuming.


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## Papageorgio (May 5, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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> > Thinker101 said:
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He has no clue about anything, he and Franco are clueless.


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## francoHFW (May 5, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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Why did oil prices collapse in 2008-9, Einstein?


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## 007 (May 5, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > Thinker101 said:
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Because the little kenyan muslim in the white house put a blanket on new exploration.


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## francoHFW (May 5, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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Yup, plenty of poor and working/middle class are into capital gains, dupe. Both the rich and the poor are prohibited from sleeping under bridges, too.


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## francoHFW (May 5, 2017)

007 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
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Yup, the corrupt Booosh Real Estate bubble world depression never happened. At least here and the  modern world because we put about 20 trilllion into bail outs and welfare etc...GOP dupes!!


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## francoHFW (May 5, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Yup, much better to have them go to the ER and not be able to pay, go bankrupt, and not have preventive care- and die, which you ALSO pay for. *After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?*


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## 007 (May 5, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> 007 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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You're a broken record of bull shit with your dupe garbage. I don't take anything you say seriously. Anyone with such a narrow vocabulary that uses the same old moronic, sophomoric quip for years and years is a compete moron... in other words... you.


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## 007 (May 5, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> 007 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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Your words are about as authentic and/or truthful as a full plate of horse shit.

The only recent world leader that fucked things up so bad it's an epic mess that the next president is having a hard time cleaning up is the little muslim dog turd, obama.


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## Papageorgio (May 5, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > Thinker101 said:
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Because a housing bubble that should have burst in 2001 after 911 didn't happen. The slow down was forecasted in the mid 90's during the dotcom bubble. People were getting 125% mortgages on homes and going deeper into debt. Lots of factors including Congress over several years of propping up booms and trying to keep them going after they ran their course, Presidents on both sides of the aisle making sure their economy wouldn't fall enacted polices that short term were great long term hurt us. It was government's meddling in the economy.


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## Papageorgio (May 5, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I didn't say that dupe, can you not read? Divert, blame that is all you have.

Daniel claimed that ACA reduced welfare, it is a form of welfare, and it added tons of people to welfare rolls as government heavily subsidized the program adding millions and millions to the government dole. You can argue and divert the answer all you want the fact is, ACA added people to the welfare rolls, he is wrong and whatever the fuck you are babbling about has nothing, nothing to do with ACA not being a form of welfare.

So you think you can follow topic? Your BS and claiming you know what I think or believe is pretty ignorant even for an old mindless, ignorant bastard like yourself. 

Try comprehend what is actually posted hater dupe and don't let your bigotry and hate cloud what you read.


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## Papageorgio (May 5, 2017)

007 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > 007 said:
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Franco is an ignorant bastard who can't read and understand what he reads, all he has his hate diversion and blame and he shits on every post he writes because he his a closed minded senile old man who is getting Alzheimer's. He has no clue what he says from post to post.


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## danielpalos (May 5, 2017)

Thinker101 said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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> > Thinker101 said:
> ...


Then, stop claiming the poor need a work ethic from the Age of Iron.  They really just need unemployment compensation on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States and to learn how to invest in the stock market; instead of learning how to fish, but come up with nothing but Red Herrings.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (May 5, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> 007 said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
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Mostly Frankie is a liberal communist!


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## danielpalos (May 5, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
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> > Papageorgio said:
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stuck on semantics and Red Herrings?  I claim socialized health care ameliorates poverty; a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, competes with the cost of social services.


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## danielpalos (May 5, 2017)

007 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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Why would a prohibition on exploration cause oil prices to collapse?


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## Papageorgio (May 5, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
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Franco claims that ACA takes people off welfare, that is a false premise that he brought up, go ask him why all he has are red herrings. 

I know what you claim however your claim doesn't make it correct. 

$100 an hour minimum wage gets everyone out of poverty and they can afford their own healthcare!  It's a win win!


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## danielpalos (May 5, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
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> > Papageorgio said:
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Maybe he means poverty; from my understanding, health care via any form of command economics and public funds, can be considered welfare.  Corporate welfare is a comparison and contrast. 

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage competes with the cost of social services.


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## Papageorgio (May 5, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
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Corporate welfare needs to go. He doesn't mean poverty he said welfare, if you can't understand what he posted, then maybe you shouldn't comment.


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## danielpalos (May 5, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
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maybe we can get a clarification.


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## francoHFW (May 5, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
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Damn straight, it was Booooshie/crony "oversight" and rating toxic assets as A+ and selling them around the world DUH. Fanny and Freddy's share of the market went from 70% to 30% in 2003, and you're a brainwashed, uninformed dupe. DUHHHHHHHH


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## francoHFW (May 5, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
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Before ACA, you had to make $0-800/month to get Medicaid, after ACA 130% of poverty line for singles or families DUHHHHHH. So before you basically had to go on welfare to get it. Now you can work and make up to 130% of poverty line. God you're dumb, a functional moron. GOPer.


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## francoHFW (May 5, 2017)

007 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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Pure ignorance and brainwashed hate from the RW. You live on an imaginary planet, Rushbot or WHATEVER. Booosh and Obama spent 10 TRILLION so you jackasses can have your idiotic "history". The 3rd world is still in a depression many places. ME and Africa, dingbats?


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## Papageorgio (May 5, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
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And you are a dumb fuck, not that we established that and nothing else thanks for playing.


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## Papageorgio (May 5, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
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> > danielpalos said:
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Shithead, it is welfare! If the government gives you a subsidy that is called welfare. Please tell me you aren't really this fucking stupid, please!


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## francoHFW (May 5, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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Try the rest of the word media, superdupe. Can you read?


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## francoHFW (May 5, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
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> > Papageorgio said:
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Only in dupe world, dupe. Of course we're discussing the government program called welfare.


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## francoHFW (May 5, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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Pragmatic centrist socialist, my uninformed, misinformed functional moron moonbat dupe. lol


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## Papageorgio (May 5, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
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When you purchase healthcare and you qualify for a subsidy, the government pays the part of the healthcare you can't, that is welfare stupid dupe! Please quit trying to spin it, you look dumber and dumber, if that is even possible. 

Welfare is the government subsidizing cost for a person that could not ordinarily afford. 

Now, I don't really care if more people are receiving welfare but please quit making totally fucking stupid statements that aren't remotely true. Man you are one dumb bitch!


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## francoHFW (May 5, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
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Your blind hate of poorer workers getting health care is noted, brainwashed superdupe.


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## Papageorgio (May 5, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
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Again, your reading comprehension is fucking poor, are you sure you were a teacher? I think you just spent your life in school because you could never pass first grade? 

Again stupid dupe, I don't care if you get ACA, I have no issue there, if the poor need healthcare by all means they should have it, never argued differently however you are a dense piece of shit. 

So if it is welfare, it needs to be called what it is, that means ACA took no one off the welfare roles, it added people to the roles. It helps the poor and I have no issue with it. Just call it what it is dickhead.


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## francoHFW (May 5, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
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Feq you and the horse you rode in on, superhaterdupe. Welfare is a gov't program for the totally indigent. Every citizen has the right to affordable health care in a civilized country, which we aren't without at least ACA.

You jackass dupes don't even know we had a huge corrupt GOP world economic meltdown in 2008. You're functional morons who are going to directly to hell. God is not amused by willful ignorance and selfishness.


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## Papageorgio (May 5, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
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Again shithead, I never argued that, I said if you need welfare then you need to get it. I am good with that, what part of that do you not understand? You are a real dumb person, maybe you should go back to school and relearn reading comprehension.


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## francoHFW (May 5, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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Under ACA, Medicaid is not welfare. Unless you're on welfare. It's health care for the poorer workers. People can now get off welfare, WORK, and still have health care. You need a diagram? You argued the 2008 corrupt GOP world meltdown never happened earlier. Why do democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare?


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## danielpalos (May 6, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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it is a separate program.  Welfare  is more, means tested than the ACA.


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## danielpalos (May 6, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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My argument regarding poverty still stands.  And, your quibbling is relatively moot, unless you have an actual point to make.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (May 6, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> . Why do democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare?



obviously it makes them dependent and thus Democratic voters. This is not democracy but rather subversion of democracy. It should be illegal as our Founders intended!!


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## Papageorgio (May 6, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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You drinking? I never said the 2008 recession never happened, dupe!

Federal assistance is a form of welfare. Whether it is health care, food stamps, Medicaid. ACA added millions onto the welfare roles. 

Again, I have no issue with anyone needing welfare, just call it what it is...ACA is welfare.


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## Papageorgio (May 6, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
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It may be a separate program however it is welfare, it is subsidized by taxpayer money and is designed to provide a safety net for the citizens.


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## Papageorgio (May 6, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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I have no clue what your argument is, you are not very articulate when it comes to communicating on this board. 

You and Franco are trying to claim that ACA is not welfare and I have proved you wrong, not sure what else there is.


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## danielpalos (May 6, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


How much revenue did we not collect, by giving the one percent, a capital gains preference for Jobs Booms.

Ending the capital gains preference would have resulted in more revenue since the one percent don't want to "work hard" and create Jobs Booms for their capital gains preference, it should be taxed as ordinary income.


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## francoHFW (May 6, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > . Why do democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare?
> ...


With whites it makes no difference whether they're dependent or Dem or what. Minorities -who simply know the GOP is full of racists- scew the numbers, dupissimus.


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## francoHFW (May 6, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Your argument is a joke. ACA doesn't put people on the "welfare rolls"- you go back and forth between definitions, dupe.. Do you get EITC? Then you're on welfare too according to your stupid, hateful, insulting argument.


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## francoHFW (May 6, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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You said it was the Dems' fault, which is ridiculous. You're on EITC- you're a welfare rat, a-hole dupe.


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## francoHFW (May 6, 2017)

007 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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That's your problem and all GOPers' problem. You're totally duped by a gigantic GOP propaganda machine run by greedy idiot billionaires. To not know about the corrupt GOP depression is ridiculous.


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## Papageorgio (May 6, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
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So you are equating a tax credit as welfare, you are a thick headed hater, that's for sure! Lol!


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## Papageorgio (May 6, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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I never said it was the Dems fault you lying bitch, you are truly the dumbest idiot on the board. Go get an education and learn to read. Until then don't waste people's time with your endless moronic rants, hater.


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## Papageorgio (May 6, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> 007 said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
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You run more fucking lies and hate than anyone on this board, your stupidity ranks up there with shootspeeders, can't tell which of is dumber, hell you are probably the same person, hater.


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## Dan Stubbs (May 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


I had a friend and he asked me who I voted for, I told him Trump, and HE LOST it had to explain that Washington,Democrats and Progressives have been in power a long time. and only time I got a good job was under Reagan.  Next my pay went from 5000 dollars a year to 14 K in about three years in a non union job;;;I had to show pay stubs before he believed me.>Told him Hilly was a Progressive which she stated publicly,  Sanders is a known socialist almost like Hilly .  So I had only one choice who to vote for....I realy like another candidate but Trump won.


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## Dan Stubbs (May 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> However this is not the story everywhere. Other wealthy countries have considerably lower poverty rates than the United States. There are a variety of factors that affect poverty rates but one that stands out is the power of unions. There is a very strong inverse relationship between the percentage of workers who are covered by a union contract and the poverty rate as measured by the OECD.[1]
> 
> Unions: The Best Fix to Poverty


*No they don't have to foot the Military to protect themselves we do that for them therefore they can help more poor family s.*


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## Dan Stubbs (May 6, 2017)

Timmy said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?
> ...


Got news for you WRONG the bros vote for who ever the best man is.  We do it without the race thing.  Go back  with your deck of card and find a new one to play.


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## Dan Stubbs (May 6, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?
> ...


Some black people are a lot smarter than you think and don't follow the Progressive line of crap notice the Republicans have more upfront than the Progressives.


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## Dan Stubbs (May 6, 2017)

LeftofLeft said:


> Brain357 said:
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## Dan Stubbs (May 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Brain357 said:
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## Dan Stubbs (May 6, 2017)

Doc1 said:


> Brain357 said:
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## Doc1 (May 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Doc1 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



....and yet I'm semi-retired and having a great time. You're dismissed kid.


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## Dan Stubbs (May 6, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
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## danielpalos (May 6, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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Wealth redistribution, is simply that.


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## francoHFW (May 6, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > 007 said:
> ...


Those lies are called facts, dupe. How bout those Yankees? How's the Hillary special prosecutor coming?


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## Johann (May 6, 2017)

Because they're fucking racist.


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## Papageorgio (May 7, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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Don't follow the Yankees and don't care about an old has been politician, lying hater dupe.


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## francoHFW (May 7, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
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> > Papageorgio said:
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She's younger than Trump. Soorry about the lock her up TOTAL BS, dupe.


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## francoHFW (May 7, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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It's a gov't subsidy, welfare rat. Papa so brainwashed...And the rich doubling their wealth their  last 35 years. No deal there.. lol. I know, end ACA (take away 700 billion from the poor) and 700 billion tax cut for the richest. That's fair and balanced.


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## francoHFW (May 7, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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What lie, superdupe?


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## Papageorgio (May 7, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
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They are both older than me and I don't care about Trump, not my candidate, hater dupe.


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## Papageorgio (May 7, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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Dumb dumb, end corporate welfare, oh wait according to you their is none, dupe! I say end it anyway!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Papageorgio (May 7, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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> > Papageorgio said:
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Dumb dumb, end corporate welfare, oh wait according to you their is none, dupe! I say end it anyway!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Papageorgio (May 7, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
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Lots of them hater dupe, you hater dupes lie all the time. You and shootspeeders having nothing but hate and lies.


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## danielpalos (May 7, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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The right wing cannot even end the drug war, and there is No drug war clause in the Doctrine, of the Republicans.


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## Redfish (May 7, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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Stopping drugs at the border would be a good start, and Trump is already doing that.  Illegal crossings are down 67% in the last 90 days. 

Did obozo end the drug war in his 8 years?    Did he do anything to keep kids from getting hooked on drugs?   Duh, no.


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## danielpalos (May 7, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
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The US is the largest purchaser of drugs, in the entire world.

Laissez-fair, all the way, right wingers.


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## Redfish (May 7, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




yes, our current cabal of doctors, hospitals, and big pharma has most americans hooked on some kind of prescription drugs.    Pills that cost 2 cents to make are being sold to us for $10.   Big pharma is raping the USA, but we never hear any liberals complain about that,  could it be because big pharma is funding their campaigns?


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## danielpalos (May 7, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


It is the left that has been advancing marijuana reform.  The right wing prefers to "hate on the poor" at every opportunity, than to advance any "second wave".


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## Redfish (May 7, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




no one hates the poor, except those on the left who want to keep them poor and dependent on the government. 

poor people cannot afford marijuana, fool.   Legalizing it does not make if free, nor does it reduce the damage that the smoke does to your lungs.   But I agree with you, if a person wants to shorten his/her life with drugs and pot, let them do it.


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## danielpalos (May 7, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


the drug war is nothing the socialism on a national basis; no wonder the right wing loves it-it keeps the poor dependent on government due to for-profit drug tests.


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## Papageorgio (May 7, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
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You really believe the crap that comes out of your mouth? Obama upheld the federal marijuana laws and was unbending. So Obama is not a Democrat?


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## danielpalos (May 7, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
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The right wing Owns it now, if they cannot abolish it.


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## Papageorgio (May 7, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
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Lol! You are a funny little twit! Take all the drugs you want, it hasn't helped you yet but at least you seem happy being high all the time. 

The Dems want the drugs for the poor so they can keep them down.


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## danielpalos (May 7, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


The right has control of Congress and the White House.  Is nothing but repeal (of health care for the poor), the best y'all can do.


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## Papageorgio (May 7, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > danielpalos said:
> ...



The Dems have had the majority for 60 of the last 84 years, no concern about the poor until they lost an election, only now do they claim they are in favor of $15 minimum wage. They need to try and keep the poor dependent upon them.


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## danielpalos (May 7, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


dear, the right wing has no Thing, but repeal.  How many better solutions at lower cost, have y'all, come up with, in that same amount of time?

Republicans gave us a War on Drugs, instead of a Mission to Mars.  We could have been on Mars, by now.


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## francoHFW (May 7, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


When the hell did I say that. Of course. But somehow you vote RW who'll never do that, dupe.


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## francoHFW (May 7, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Hillary was for $12. But how would you know? The dupes are only experts on  her imaginary "lock her up" "crimes"...Yes, the corrupt bought off pander to the rich GOP are great at obstruction. All you need is no shame and a brainwashed GOP electorate....


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## Papageorgio (May 7, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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If ACA isn't welfare then giving corporations money is welfare. Hater dupe.


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## Papageorgio (May 7, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



You are a dumb bunny,  no one except you said anything about $12. The amount is $15, and only after their defeat in 2016, now and only now do they want $15. Funny thing is the first quarter wages overall went up, without a minimum wage increase, imagine that you hater dupe.


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## francoHFW (May 7, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


According to your definition everyone in the country is on welfare lol...


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## francoHFW (May 7, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Absolutely clueless, like all dupes. Hill was for $12, Bernie for $15. GOP for 0.0.

...Wages up, continuing what they were  doing under Obama. Probably not min wagers so much...Inequality will continue growing until Reaganist tax rates and policies are ended.


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## francoHFW (May 7, 2017)




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## francoHFW (May 7, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Name one.


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## Papageorgio (May 7, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > francoHFW said:
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Ahhhh...poor hater dupe got his panties in a bunch? I proved you claim there is no corporate welfare. Take care bigoted lying hater dupe.


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## Papageorgio (May 7, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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Poor hater dupe, caught lying again. Dems only backed $15 AFTER the got their asses handed to them after the election. Man, keep trying hater dupe, you sound more desperate with each post.


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## francoHFW (May 7, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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Sure, ignoramus. Change the channel and actually KNOW SOMETHING...You never learn lol...
*Does Hillary Clinton want a $15 or $12 minimum wage? | PolitiFact*
www.politifact.com/.../bernie-s/does-hillary-clinton-want-15-or-12-minimum-wage/
Claim: Said he has campaigned to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. "Secretary Clinton said, let's raise it to $12.”
Claimed by: Bernie Sanders
Fact check by PolitiFact: Mostly True
Feedback
*Hillary Clinton Clarifies Her Stance On $15 Minimum Wage | HuffPost*
www.huffingtonpost.com/.../hillary-clinton-minumum-wage_us_57139f45e4b06f35c...
Apr 17, 2016 - Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), weren't as far apart on the issue as it seemed. Sanders has called for a $15 national minimum wage without qualification. ... During the campaign, she has voiced her support for a $12 proposal put forth ...
*Hillary Clinton's Stance on the Minimum Wage - Attn*
www.attn.com/stories/11192/hillary-clintons-stance-on-minimum-wage
Sep 6, 2016 - What Hillary Clinton Really Thinks About the Minimum Wage ... the group "Wonks for Hillary" described the candidate's stance: "Hillary supports a federal $12 minimum wage and supports prevailing wage laws and the 'Fight for $15' where economically feasible." ... Bernie Sanders (I), it's because it is.


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## Papageorgio (May 7, 2017)

Right, just like I said, after the Dems lost they clamored for $15 minimum wage. BTW, Bernie says he is a independent, thanks hater dupe for proving me right again!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## francoHFW (May 7, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Right, just like I said, after the Dems lost they clamored for $15 minimum wage. BTW, Bernie says he is a independent, thanks hater dupe for proving me right again!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You're insane. lol.


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## Papageorgio (May 7, 2017)

francoHFW said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Right, just like I said, after the Dems lost they clamored for $15 minimum wage. BTW, Bernie says he is a independent, thanks hater dupe for proving me right again!
> ...



So are you hater dupe! You scream INSANITY!


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## francoHFW (May 7, 2017)

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Try quoting the whole argument so ANYONE can see you don't recognize facts, just parrot discredited bs. Unbelievable. Hillary and Bernie were touting their 12 and 15 dollar min wages all last year...but all you dupes hear about is bs character assassination and conspiracies...


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## Papageorgio (May 7, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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Bernie, but not Democrats, in fact he was saying $15 an hour, your bitch said $12 and you liberal assholes said, let's go with Hillary and her $12, then when you lost for being greedy bastards, you then change to $15, all to transparent except for you hater dupe.


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## francoHFW (May 7, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


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Bernie IS a Dem in all but name, a-hole. I SAID Hillary was for $12, Bernie for 15 all during the campaign, above. You said no way. You're an ignorant dupe, an a-hole, AND a LIAR- a typical GOP dupe.. Take some time off and get real.


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## Papageorgio (May 7, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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Yep and you chose the 12 person over the 15 person, tells us where you loser Dems are, you want the one with the lower wage to give out. Congrats backing the $12 bitch over the $15 old guy. 

After the election the Dems figured they better give the poor a few more crumbs and moved the scale from 10.10 to 12 to 15, maybe that will buy the votes back.


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## francoHFW (May 7, 2017)

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I voted for Bernie in the NYS primary. Don't you EVER get tired of being wrong? LOL. If Bernie had won, after a couple weeks you would have believed GOP BS propaganda he was a lazy lying hippy communist who never worked a day in his life greedy Jew...Hillary was not corrupt in any way, dupe, and 12 is on the way to 15 like all her policies were on the way to Bernie's...the people YOU vote for are the corrupt ones...they steal from the nonrich every day.


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## francoHFW (May 7, 2017)

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BS. So you vote for the $0.0 guy and think you're a genius. And they were for $12 or 15 all campaign long...


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## Papageorgio (May 7, 2017)

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I was right, your party selected the $12 old hag over $15 man, it wasn't until after the election that the Democrats all decided to move the wage to 15, NOT BEFORE. After the election the Dems needed to increase the wage to buy the votes in the future.

I would have voted for Bernie over Trump, I have little use for him.


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## Papageorgio (May 7, 2017)

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I didn't vote for the 0 guy, it looks like you did because Bernie didn't make it.


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## francoHFW (May 8, 2017)

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That's the 3rd or 4th thing you've said you meant lol...it's also the right thing to do. Imagine that, dupe. So you were for Bernie above anyone? But the GOP otherwise? What next?


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## francoHFW (May 8, 2017)

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The Libertarian's also probably for no min wage- Just GOP in disguise.


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## Papageorgio (May 8, 2017)

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Over Trump and Cruz, the others were more difficult.


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## Papageorgio (May 8, 2017)

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Libertarians are a little liberal and a little conservative.


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## danielpalos (May 8, 2017)

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Didn't hear much about it from his AG.  And, California legalized pot on Mr. Obama's watch.


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## danielpalos (May 8, 2017)

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You are the one "stuck on semantics".  Government is Socialism.


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## danielpalos (May 8, 2017)

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Social services cost around fourteen dollars an hour, by comparison.


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## Papageorgio (May 8, 2017)

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The Republican Congress got upset with him because he used federal dollars to interfere with states that legalized marijuana. 

Why Is Obama Prosecuting Medical Marijuana Cases in Defiance of Congress and the Constitution?


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## Papageorgio (May 8, 2017)

danielpalos said:


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The Republican Congress got upset with him because he used federal dollars to interfere with states that legalized marijuana. 

Why Is Obama Prosecuting Medical Marijuana Cases in Defiance of Congress and the Constitution?


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## danielpalos (May 8, 2017)

I guess "moneyed interests" have a profit motive; same thing happened with the republicans.  

However, there is no reason for Mr. Trump to even care about drugs, as a "one percenter".  Mr. Obama and Mr. Bush, were political, not commercial ventures.


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## Redfish (May 8, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> I guess "moneyed interests" have a profit motive; same thing happened with the republicans.
> 
> However, there is no reason for Mr. Trump to even care about drugs, as a "one percenter".  Mr. Obama and Mr. Bush, were political, not commercial ventures.




do you ever post anything that makes sense.   What is your first language?  because it certainly isn't English.


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## Papageorgio (May 8, 2017)

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Never argued that, seems you missed the entire post and are wrong as usual.


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## Papageorgio (May 8, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> I guess "moneyed interests" have a profit motive; same thing happened with the republicans.
> 
> However, there is no reason for Mr. Trump to even care about drugs, as a "one percenter".  Mr. Obama and Mr. Bush, were political, not commercial ventures.



Both parties seem to be fixed on power motive.


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## francoHFW (May 8, 2017)

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So did Mass, Co, Wa, DC. Actually, Obama has allowed states to do what they want...W was the unbender, and watch out for Sessions...How can the dupes live here and not know the GOP are the swine on pot, taxes, health care, corruption etc etc etc...


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## Papageorgio (May 8, 2017)

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Obama's war pot, looks like Obama is worse than swine when it comes to pot.

Dickinson: Obama's War on Pot

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.us...ama-administration-dies-of-cancer?context=amp

Why Is Obama Prosecuting Medical Marijuana Cases in Defiance of Congress and the Constitution?


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## francoHFW (May 8, 2017)

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Our media suqs, going way overboard to get clicks or ratings. He has allowed states to legalize recreational pot, and I see talk of all these raids (overeager gov't attorneys?) but not since these articles appeared. So far so good with Trump but I trust Sessions as far as I can throw him. W was against all of this.


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## Papageorgio (May 8, 2017)

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I know the Obama administration prosecuted this guy and the media made it all up. LOL!!!! 

The last article was April a year ago so we know that for his Presidency he was prosecuting pot smokers, it is his admin. that went after them so it is on Obama who claimed he would never pursue medical marijuana and he went back on his promise.

He had no control over whether states elected on their own or not to legalize pot, it is a states rights issue and he butted in anyway. 

Trump, who knows where he stands, the guy will change his mind in 10 seconds anyway.


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## francoHFW (May 8, 2017)

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Booosh raided all kinds of pot org's and didn't allow legal recreational pot. Obama did. The articles you linked to are very obscure lefty CLICK HERE! balogna. Very short on detail, and I'm not sure Obama had any control over those raids, etc. At any rate, he's MUCH better on pot than the GOP. To say the least.


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## francoHFW (May 8, 2017)

*How Cannabinoids May Slow Brain Aging | TIME.com*
healthland.time.com/2012/10/29/how-cannabinoids-may-slow-brain-aging/
Oct 29, 2012 - ... may hold promise for preventing— or even reversing— brain aging ... of the diseaseprocesses responsible for degenerative brain diseases ...
*Cannabis can reverse aging processes in... - Rheinische Friedrich ...*
Log In or Sign Up to View...
Cannabis can reverse aging processes in the brain - at least in mice. Researchers of the University of Bonn and their colleagues of the Hebrew University...
*Study: Marijuana Reverses Aging Processes in the Brain | eCannabis ...*
Study: Marijuana Reverses Aging Processes in the Brain
Memory performance decreases with age. Marijuana can reverse these aging processes in the brain, according to a new study published in the journal Nature ...
*Marijuana slows brain degradation and aging, reverses dementia*
www.newstarget.com/2016-11-18-marijuana-slows-brain-degradation-and-aging-reve...
Nov 18, 2016 - Marijuana slows brain degradation and aging, reverses dementia ... by cannabis in order to speed up the inevitable process of widespread ...

On the whole, Dems want more research and GOP blocks. And yes I'm partisan because I'm not baffled by BS.


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## Papageorgio (May 8, 2017)

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Who the hell cares! I was responding to Daniel's post where he made a false claim that Obama was friendly toward marijuana. Not whether Obama was better or worse than anyone else. He was not friendly as the listed articles state. But draw your own conclusion based on your bias and view, don't let facts get in your way.


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## danielpalos (May 8, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
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> > I guess "moneyed interests" have a profit motive; same thing happened with the republicans.
> ...


dear, You are merely, clueless and Causeless; that is all.


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## danielpalos (May 8, 2017)

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a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, makes more, rational sense.


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## danielpalos (May 8, 2017)

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Prohibition=Corruption.

Did we forget our lesson, from last millennium?


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## danielpalos (May 8, 2017)

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a matter of degree?

the republicans claimed our Commerce Clause includes the power to Prohibit and the Judiciary went along with it.

Every gun lover knows, well regulated means, to "_make regular_".  It is practically a catechism for gun lovers.


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## danielpalos (May 8, 2017)

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lol.  special pleading is all you have.


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## francoHFW (May 8, 2017)

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Very obscure facts to say the least. Looked like BS to me...Who cares? Peope with a functional brain. The GOP suqs on everything. He is friendly on pot duh. Progress under him has been amazing.


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## Papageorgio (May 8, 2017)

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Ok, that isn't the issue and it helps you divert your erroneous statements. Your apology is accepted. Anything else?


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## Papageorgio (May 8, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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They aren't obscure, the Obama administration went after pot smokers in states that had legal medical marijuana. Even liberals give him a failing grade, especially since he said his administration would never do it. He flat out lied in this area. So it isn't sketchy or obscure.


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## danielpalos (May 8, 2017)

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it makes more rational sense to work to get off welfare, if it can pay more.


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## Papageorgio (May 8, 2017)

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Cupcake, you are the only one that is arguing the point, so go convince yourself and when you want to get back on topic, let me know.


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## francoHFW (May 8, 2017)

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He's a helluva lot better than the GOP, but you want perfection, so you vote for the a-holes. GOP logic. And I'll bet it's not Obama's fault anyway, if there actually IS a problem.. Where the hell are you? I never heard of such a thing, and your links give no details, just BS.


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## Papageorgio (May 8, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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I wasn't talking about the GOP, I was talking about Obama, you seem confused. 

The Obama administration prosecuted marijuana users, Daniel wrongly claimed he didn't. Now, you are doubling down on stupid. Obama's administration, with Obama's Justice Dept., and you pretend Obama was a clueless moron on what was going on in his administration? How stupid was Obama?


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## danielpalos (May 9, 2017)

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Thank you for admitting, that the democrats are trying to help the poor, get out of poverty.


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## danielpalos (May 9, 2017)

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Nobody is claiming the previous administration did not enforce some of the laws on the books.


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## Papageorgio (May 9, 2017)

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Your claim was clear, are you now saying differently than you originally claimed or you just trying to divert from being wrong?


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## danielpalos (May 9, 2017)

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nope; California legalized pot on the democrat's watch, and California hired Mr. Holder, to help out with Mr. Trump.


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## Papageorgio (May 9, 2017)

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So while you want to pretend that you made a different claim, the above is what you said and it was not true, Obama and his administration were tough on medical pot and went as far as prosecuting a cancer victim and deny him his pain medication. 



danielpalos said:


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So matter what lies you are spewing now the fact is Holder and Obama were not friendly to pot smokers during Obama's tenure as President. 

So if in your purely fictitious fantasy world you want to believe what you need to believe to feel all warm and fuzzy about Obama go right ahead, When you decide to become honest get back to me and we can discuss further, but you are wrong on this point and it isn't even close, you are being blatantly being dishonest. No point conversing with dishonest ones. Take care.


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## danielpalos (May 9, 2017)

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a matter of degree?  

It didn't seem that way in California, we even legalized recreational pot.  It is your claim that he was worse than the republicans.


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## Papageorgio (May 9, 2017)

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Where did I make such a claim? You claimed the left was "advancing marijuana reform." I disagreed with your assessment and cited what Obama did during his tenure, which was quite the opposite of your claim. 

This story brings out that Obama's regime spent more money on pot raids than the previous administration. 
Dispensary Raids Rise Under Obama Regime • Green Rush Daily

This story speaks of the Republican Congress voting to end raids while the Obama administration ramped it up. 
A year after Congress voted to end war on medical pot, raids continue in California

And another story: Obama’s War on Pot

Here is a story of raids in California under Obama:DEA Raids California Collectives, Violating New Federal Policy - MPP Blog

So again, it looks like your fantasy world doesn't align with us in the real world.


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## danielpalos (May 9, 2017)

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If you didn't make such a claim; then you have nothing but a red herring.


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## Papageorgio (May 9, 2017)

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I refuted your silly claim, you then are the nutter who set out the red herring. Why would you put it out there if it was absolutely false. Because you were trying to fit a false narrative and I am sorry if you are upset because I called you out on your blatant lie.


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## francoHFW (May 9, 2017)

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What a pile of crap. All your BS articles are from 2013 and before. Obviously the Obama "administration" stopped. Let's see some detailed examples, what happened in the end, and who the hell was responsible. RW Crap, and lw idiocy.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (May 9, 2017)

Redfish said:


> The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?



yes, before liberals had their way with blacks the black family was as intact as the white family!! Liberals have hollowed out America destroying its families, children, schools, churches, and workers and love itself. Who could think these liberal changes are good but a blind man?


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## Papageorgio (May 9, 2017)

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Some of the earlier links I posted were 2015 and 2016. I tire of your BS and lies, you are a hater dupe and your partisan crap is going to destroy this country. I hate LWNJ and RWNJ, you guys are all moronic on your positions. The ball is in your court to prove it didn't happen, so until you do, I am through with your nonsense.


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## francoHFW (May 9, 2017)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > The long standing policy of democrats is to create a permanent dependent underclass.  Is being in power the only thing that matters to democrats?
> ...


The blacks were also SEGREGATED back then. It's obvious to any nondupe or non-liar that only Dems have helped blacks when they're down- like all poor, and have given them opportunities/programs to help them out of poverty- mosty cut by the New BS GOP in the last 30 years to save the rich- just like ACA. Most GOPers would like to bring back poor houses and potters fields after 30 years of brainwashing...they hate the poor and minorities at this point. And think they're all Dems lol. Lunacy.


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## francoHFW (May 9, 2017)

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Funny how 29 states now have legal pot, 8 recreational, and no stories about raids for YEARS...but watch out for Sessions.


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## francoHFW (May 9, 2017)

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The only party destroying the country is the lying, cheating, giveaway to the rich, BS propaganda machine New BS GOP. A disgrace. See sig.


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## Papageorgio (May 9, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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You obviously didn't read all the articles, but I don't expect you to, ignorant bigot.

This is from 2016 lying hateful dupe!
Dispensary Raids Rise Under Obama Regime • Green Rush Daily

Now spin away like a good little Democratic Party bitch, they sure got you fooled!


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## Papageorgio (May 9, 2017)

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I block signs, its like the 10th time I told you and I won't read your bs propaganda, you lwnj and rwnj are a disgrace to this great country. 

I am done with your asinine stupidity, hate away, bigot!


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## francoHFW (May 9, 2017)

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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...OUStYnIiZ6TkMYb5A&sig2=LZ0cA9cKu_dksUia1N9dsA

And it was stopped in 2014. I haven't heard of a dispensary raided since....


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## francoHFW (May 9, 2017)

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The legal stuff is confusing, but we now have 29 states with legal medical, 8 recreational. I don't hate anything but GOP bs. My blocker won't let me see that one.

*The USA is the only modern country in the world where full time workers live in poverty and have no health care (750k bankruptcies a year, most HAVE insurance - crap insurance!)After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?*  
Pubs have blocked EVERYTHING since 2/4/2010- don't be duped...again. Stimulus worked-ran out in 2010.
Total Pub Propaganda BS: ACORN, Kenyan Muslim Marxist,Tides, Mosque, Death Panel, lose your doctor, huge costs, DEBT CRISIS, Obama Recession, stimulus failed, Barney Frank, Nazi Soros, Nazi socialists, Volt suqs, Iran making bomb etc etc. 
I'm sorry- dupes are lovely people- but I can't take their lazy, ignorant, careless, stupid politics a minute longer. Sorry


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## danielpalos (May 9, 2017)

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Like I claim; the republicans were worse; the proof is, California legalized recreational use for adults, on the democrats' watch.


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## danielpalos (May 9, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


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a legacy policy that he tried to, "wind down"?



> These kinds of stats are always a bit behind since it takes the time to gather and collate large sets of data, but according to the most recent numbers available, dispensary raids by the feds have been on the rise over the past decade.


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## Papageorgio (May 9, 2017)

francoHFW said:


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Well, at least you are admitting to being a dupe, that's a start, good luck with it dupe.


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## francoHFW (May 9, 2017)

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ACTUALLY, I would say you went to baffling legalese, but the actual results prove that Obama presided over the most progress ever on pot. And you vote GOP on the national stage, so you are the dupe, obviously. lol


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## Papageorgio (May 10, 2017)

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Nope, you are wrong, that is the way it is.


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## P@triot (May 22, 2017)

The left has worked _really_ hard to rewrite history. Live everything else they do, they have *failed*...


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## danielpalos (May 22, 2017)

P@triot said:


> The left has worked _really_ hard to rewrite history. Live everything else they do, they have *failed*...


Only in right wing fantasy.


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## Redfish (May 23, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> > The left has worked _really_ hard to rewrite history. Live everything else they do, they have *failed*...
> ...




study some history, dude.    The dems invented racism and hate, and are still practicing it today.


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## danielpalos (May 23, 2017)

Redfish said:


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I did. I also read, Robert Novack's, Prince of Darkness.  He describes the "political polarity reversal" in party platforms.  It took around seventy years.


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## P@triot (May 29, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> > The left has worked _really_ hard to rewrite history. Live everything else they do, they have *failed*...
> ...


That "intelligent" comment is the comment of a progressive up against a wall of facts with nowhere left to run. Thanks for playing, snowflake.


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## P@triot (May 29, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> I did. I also read, Robert Novack's, Prince of Darkness.  He describes the "political polarity reversal" in party platforms.  It took around seventy years.


Bwahahahahaha! The old "but...but...but...._everyone_ switched sides" Dumbocrat defense. 

Snowflake...the Dumbocrats of LBJ (who called _every_ black person a "n*gger") are the same Dumbocrats of today - only more radicalized. Not one single conservative wanted to join the left's idiotic racism or their idiotic communism.


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## P@triot (May 29, 2017)

Dumbocrats hate black people. Dumbocrats do not hate the poor - they are just too dumb not to create them.


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## danielpalos (May 30, 2017)

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Y'all have no facts; only fallacy induced fantasy, dears.


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## danielpalos (May 30, 2017)

P@triot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > I did. I also read, Robert Novack's, Prince of Darkness.  He describes the "political polarity reversal" in party platforms.  It took around seventy years.
> ...


It is the right wing that prefers slavery to income taxes.


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## Redfish (May 30, 2017)

slavery to the plantation master, or slavery to the government.   To democrats its the same thing. 

The good thing is that today many blacks are waking up to the lie that the democrats and liberals have used for years to keep them from moving up the economic ladder. 

The Clintons and the obamas have destroyed the party of Kennedy and Truman.


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## Redfish (May 30, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




poor people don't pay income taxes, fool.


----------



## danielpalos (May 30, 2017)

Redfish said:


> slavery to the plantation master, or slavery to the government.   To democrats its the same thing.
> 
> The good thing is that today many blacks are waking up to the lie that the democrats and liberals have used for years to keep them from moving up the economic ladder.
> 
> The Clintons and the obamas have destroyed the party of Kennedy and Truman.


Unlike the right wing, with the poor.


----------



## danielpalos (May 30, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > P@triot said:
> ...


sounds like class envy or simply, being "dumb where y'all come from".  Dears, "doing what comes naturally", means the Poor and Mr. Trump Only pay the Taxes we are Legally Obligated to Pay.

Don't complain; Be Patriotic.


----------



## Redfish (May 30, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > slavery to the plantation master, or slavery to the government.   To democrats its the same thing.
> ...




that's not true at all.   conservatives want jobs for all of the poor, good jobs with chance for advancement and higher pay, a booming economy, better lives for everyone.   Its you on the left that have failed the poor and made them wards of the state.  Its you liberals who have created ghettos in our big cities and generational welfare.  Its you liberals who have destroyed the black family unit. 
and what's really sad is that you are too dumb to even realize it.


----------



## Redfish (May 30, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...




why would anyone pay more taxes than he is legally obligated to pay?   Are you on crack?


----------



## danielpalos (May 30, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


Just propaganda and rhetoric from the perspective of some on the left.  The poor don't even have a right to work, in Right to Work States.  Y'all talk the talk, unfortunately y'all are usually Only right, twice a day.  That is why, Nobody should take the right wing seriously about the law, or economics.


----------



## danielpalos (May 30, 2017)

Redfish said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...


the right wing seems to be, for "caring how much other pay in taxes (or don't pay in taxes)."


----------



## P@triot (Jun 12, 2017)

*Democrats’ Hoodwinking of Blacks*

Dumbocrats promise the African-American community the world and deliver only poverty and misery (just ask Detroit - which had to file bankruptcy after 65 years of pure progressivism.


> Since its founding in the late 1820s, the Democratic Party has defended slavery, started the Civil War, and opposed Reconstruction. The Democratic Party imposed segregation. Its members engaged in the lynchings of blacks and opposed the civil rights acts of the 1950s and ’60s.



Democrats' Hoodwinking of Blacks


----------



## danielpalos (Jun 13, 2017)

P@triot said:


> *Democrats’ Hoodwinking of Blacks*
> 
> Dumbocrats promise the African-American community the world and deliver only poverty and misery (just ask Detroit - which had to file bankruptcy after 65 years of pure progressivism.
> 
> ...


Nothing but right wing propaganda;  how is cutting taxes for "your rich guy" and cutting foodstamp benefits for the poor, any better.


----------



## Papageorgio (Jun 13, 2017)

P@triot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > P@triot said:
> ...



Are you still expecting Daniel to make an intelligent comment? Lol! The guy won't debate, he makes stupid statements and then runs. He is a dishonest Regressive.


----------



## rightwinger (Jun 13, 2017)

Republicans have controlled Congress for seven years and all three branches of government since January

Where are all their initiatives to help struggling black families?
Where are all the jobs they promised?
Where is the trickle down?


----------



## Papageorgio (Jun 13, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Republicans have controlled Congress for seven years and all three branches of government since January
> 
> Where are all their initiatives to help struggling black families?
> Where are all the jobs they promised?
> Where is the trickle down?



Republicans are like Democrats all talk no action. They all have to appease their rich friends.


----------



## Markle (Jun 13, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> > *Democrats’ Hoodwinking of Blacks*
> ...



BY WALTER E. WILLIAMS 
RELEASE: WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 26, 2005, AND THEREAFTER

AMMUNITION FOR POVERTY PIMPS

In the wake of Hurricane Katrina's destruction of New Orleans, President Bush gave America's poverty pimps and race hustlers new ammunition. The president said, "As all of us saw on television, there is also some deep, persistent poverty in this region as well. And that poverty has roots in a history of racial discrimination, which cut off generations from the opportunity of America. We have a duty to confront this poverty with bold action."

The president's espousing such a vision not only supplies ammunition to poverty pimps and race hustlers, it focuses attention away from the true connection between race and poverty.

Though I grow weary of pointing it out, let's do it again. Let's examine some numbers readily available from the Census Bureau's 2004 Current Population Survey and ask some questions. There's one segment of the black population that suffers only a 9.9 percent poverty rate, and only 13.7 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. There's another segment that suffers a 39.5 percent poverty rate, and 58.1 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. Among whites, one segment suffers a 6 percent poverty rate, and only 9.9 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. The other segment suffers a 26.4 percent poverty rate, and 52 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. What do you think distinguishes the high and low poverty populations among blacks?

Would you buy an explanation that it's because white people practice discrimination against one segment of the black population and not the other or one segment had a history of slavery and not the other? You'd have to be a lunatic to buy such an explanation. The only distinction between both the black and white populations is marriage -- lower poverty in married-couple families.

*In 1960, only 28 percent of black females ages 15 to 44 were never married and illegitimacy among blacks was 22 percent. Today, the never-married rate is 56 percent and illegitimacy stands at 70 percent. If today's black family structure were what it was in 1960, the overall black poverty rate would be in or near single digits. The weakening of the black family structure, and its devastating consequences, have nothing to do with the history of slavery or racial discrimination.*

Dr. Charles Murray, an American Enterprise Institute scholar, argues in an article titled "Rediscovering the Underclass" in the Institute's On the Issues series (October 2005) that self-destructive behavior has become the hallmark of the underclass. He says that unemployment in the underclass is not caused by the lack of jobs but by the inability to get up every morning and go to work. In 1954, the percentage of black males, age 20 to 24, not looking for work was nine percent. In 1999, it rose to 30 percent, and that was at a time when employers were beating the bushes for employees. Murray adds that "the statistical reality is that people who get into the American job market and stay there seldom remain poor unless they do something self-destructive.

I share Murray's sentiment expressed at the beginning of his article where he says, "Watching the courage of ordinary low-income people as they deal with the aftermath of Katrina and Rita, it is hard to decide which politicians are more contemptible -- Democrats who are rediscovering poverty and blaming it on George W. Bush, or Republicans who are rediscovering poverty and claiming that the government can fix it." Since President Johnson's War on Poverty, controlling for inflation, the nation has spent $9 trillion on about 80 anti-poverty programs. To put that figure in perspective, last year's U.S. GDP was $11 trillion; $9 trillion exceeds the GDP of any nation except the U.S. Hurricanes Katrina and Rita uncovered the result of the War on Poverty -- dependency and self-destructive behavior.

*Guess what the president [President George Walker Bush] and politicians from both parties are asking the American people to do? If you said, "Enact programs that will sustain and enhance dependency," go to the head of the class.*

Ammunition For Poverty Pimps


----------



## danielpalos (Jun 14, 2017)

It is a simple, leadership problem amongst and betwixt, the "security chiefs", of our several States of our Union.

We may need to ask, Kentucky Colonels, for leadership advice.


----------



## Redfish (Jun 15, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Republicans have controlled Congress for seven years and all three branches of government since January
> 
> Where are all their initiatives to help struggling black families?
> Where are all the jobs they promised?
> Where is the trickle down?




Its happening.   Do you ever look at the stock market?  the unemployment stats?  the number of corporations investing and expanding in the USA?  companies moving to the USA? 

but I understand, the dems idea or perpetual welfare is the only solution to black poverty. 

Its only been 5 months.   With Bush and Obama we had 16 years of nothing positive.   It takes a while to turn that mess around.


----------



## P@triot (Jun 15, 2017)




----------



## P@triot (Jun 15, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Republicans have controlled Congress for seven years


With Barack Insane Obama serving as the ultimate *obstructionist* - vetoing _everything_ they did to "Make America Great Again".


----------



## P@triot (Jun 15, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Where are all their initiatives to help struggling black families?


Wait...why are black families struggling? I thought Barack Insane Obama was going to solve that? I thought all of his unconstitutional orders and legislation from the Dumbocrats was going to solve all of the struggles?

I thought Obamacare would cover the cost of healthcare so those families wouldn't struggle anymore? _Oops_... Looks like _someone's_ hate for the Republicans caused them to accidentally admit what a monumental *failure* Barack Insane Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Ried were.


----------



## P@triot (Jun 15, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Where are all the jobs they promised?


Uh....snowflake? President Trump has created jobs and has a lower unemployment figure than Barack Insane Obama _ever_ had. Oops...


----------



## P@triot (Jun 15, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Where are all their initiatives to help struggling black families?


*President Trump* has already addressed that, snowflake. He eliminated all of Barack Insane Obama's illegal/unconstitutional Executive Orders. He approved both the Dakota and Keystone Pipelines. He negotiated improved trade deals. He even paid off $68 billion of the national debt already. Most of all - he's handed power back to the states where it belongs.

Nothing helps struggling families like *liberty*. Which is why you so vehemently oppose liberty. You and your party prefer to keep black people in poverty - where you believe they "belong".


----------



## danielpalos (Jun 15, 2017)

Redfish said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Republicans have controlled Congress for seven years and all three branches of government since January
> ...


A capital gains tax preference doesn't solve simple poverty either; why not abolish it.


----------



## danielpalos (Jun 15, 2017)

P@triot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Republicans have controlled Congress for seven years
> ...


Interesting spin; when it is the right wing that has, nothing but repeal.


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Interesting spin; when it is the right wing that has, nothing but repeal.


What is the right-wing repealing? Oh yeah...just things that the federal government has absolutely no constitutional powers over.

Just a suggestion - you might want to actually _think_ before posting in the future.


----------



## IM2 (Jun 16, 2017)

P@triot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Where are all their initiatives to help struggling black families?
> ...



This is a stupid post. Trumps done nothing for blacks and he won't. It's funny the race baiting going on by republicans. Nothing mentioned in the post addresses what struggling black families need. Liberty? Does this fool really understand the concept or is he just a mindless ninny repeating right wing anti Obama talking points? Democrats are for a living wage. Republicans oppose any increase in wages. If there is anything that's going to take people out of poverty, it would be making wages that are above poverty level. So then how can a republican make the comments made here when it is the democrats wanting a national; wage of 15 dollars per hour while republicans say no the government should not be determining the minimum wage?


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> If there is anything that's going to take people out of poverty, it would be making wages that are above poverty level.


Every wage is "above poverty", _stupid_. Minimum wage is an entry level wage for 16 year old kids getting the first experience at holding a job while still living at home with their parents.

It is not designed for a 40 year old man to raise a family on. If you're full grown adult and you're trying to raise a family on minimum wage - the problem is *not* the government regulations. The problem is _you_.

Furthermore - minimum wage is what you get hired at. Unless you're an asshole, it's *not* where you remain. Every single year you get an annual review and a raise unless you're an asshole who isn't reliable. In which case, once again, you are the problem - not government regulations.


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> So then how can a republican make the comments made here when it is the democrats wanting a national; wage of 15 dollars per hour while republicans say no the government should not be determining the minimum wage?


Because unlike you Dumbocrats, Republicans understand basic economics. A $15 an hour minimum wage puts _everyone_ out of work. It is unsustainable. California and Oregon have tried and restaurants and stores are closing their doors at alarming rates because of it (just as Republicans warned would happen).

Walmart Closes LA Store Over $15 Minimum Wage - Breitbart

Oakland’s Minimum Wage Is Up, Wal-Mart Is Out

Thanks To The Fight For $15 Minimum Wage, Small Businesses Close And Employees Are Laid Off

More Seattle restaurants close doors as $15 minimum wage approaches - Shift Washington

Nobody knows how to take low wage jobs and turn them into *no* wage jobs like Dumbocrats.


----------



## IM2 (Jun 16, 2017)

P@triot said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > If there is anything that's going to take people out of poverty, it would be making wages that are above poverty level.
> ...



Another stupid post. When it has been determined that you need 15 dollars an hour to raise a family and afford housing, paying  a grown person 9 bucks an hour claiming you are not paying minimum wage doesn't cut the mustard.


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Democrats are for a living wage. Republicans oppose any increase in wages. If there is anything that's going to take people out of poverty, it would be making wages that are above poverty level. So then how can a republican make the comments made here when it is the democrats wanting a national; wage of 15 dollars per hour while republicans say no the government should not be determining the minimum wage?


Here is a basic lesson in business and economics for you, son:

Businesses do *not* eat cost. Like all left-wing nitwits, you _think_ they will be stuck with the bill when you increase minimum wage. But that's not how it works. The business will do one of three things: raise prices, cut hours, eliminate the position.

Most businesses raise their prices. That happens through out society with a minimum wage increase. Which means, the minimum wage worker who just got a pay raise is no further ahead (duh!). They have more money, but _everything_ costs more. Gas costs more. Fast food costs more. Socks costs more. And while the minimum wage worker is no further ahead, the rest of society (which didn't get a pay increase) is now even further behind.

A few businesses that simply can't raise their prices due to their product and/or competition will simply cut hours. What good is a pay increase if you're making the exact same salary because your company cut your hours to offset the new labor costs? And again...all prices throughout society have now gone up. Which means that the minimum wage worker is much further behind now. Great job, Dumbocrats!

Third and finally, the business will eliminate labor altogether. They will cut as many jobs as they can, or cut them all and automate. Now, the minimum wage worker is _really_ screwed. No job at all - and everything costs more than ever.

Basic economics and basic business, kid. Learn it before discussing it.


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> When it has been determined that you need 15 dollars an hour to raise a family and afford housing


Exactly! When has that been determined? And yet the Dumbocrats keep calling for a $15 an hour minimum wage. Just an arbitrary number from the idiots on the left - without any research or knowledge (as usual).


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> paying  a grown person 9 bucks an hour claiming you are not paying minimum wage doesn't cut the mustard.


Sure it does, snowflake. Both the employer and the employee agreed to the wage. That's the beauty of the free market. There is no coercion. It's all by free will.


----------



## IM2 (Jun 16, 2017)

P@triot said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > So then how can a republican make the comments made here when it is the democrats wanting a national; wage of 15 dollars per hour while republicans say no the government should not be determining the minimum wage?
> ...


 
You republicans understand the economy so well that you caused it to crash 

If you had ever run a business, then you understand that for the minimum wage tp be required, you must make a certain amount of money. .

*



			The main federal law that sets the minimum wage is the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), found at 29 U.S.C. sections 201, and following. Although the FLSA covers most employers, some employers and employees are not covered.

Generally, your business must abide by the FLSA if you have $500,000 or more in annual sales or if your employees work in what Congress calls "interstate commerce" -- that is, if they do business between states.
		
Click to expand...

*
That amount can be raised to meet the 15 dollar per hour minimum. The business owner can decide to take home less of the profits also. Wal Mart has no reason to not pay 15 dollars per hour. Try understanding how wage laws work before you start off on another dumb ass republican taking point filled rant.


----------



## IM2 (Jun 16, 2017)

P@triot said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > When it has been determined that you need 15 dollars an hour to raise a family and afford housing
> ...








What we need to get by:
 A basic standard of living costs $48,778, and nearly a third of families fall short

Report • By James Lin and Jared Bernstein • October 29, 2008



> The key findings of this report, which updates an earlier EPI study calculating family budgets (Allegretto 2005), include the following:
> 
> 
> On average nationwide, working families with two parents and two children require an income of $48,778 to meet the family budget. In major urban areas, expenses for this four-person family range from $42,106 in Oklahoma City to $71,913 in Nassau/Suffolk, N.Y.; families in small towns and rural areas start from a low of $35,733 in Marshall County, Miss. to $73,345 in Nantucket and Dukes Counties, Mass.



What we need to get by: A basic standard of living costs $48,778, and nearly a third of families fall short

It's kinda important to know what you are talking about when you post.


----------



## IM2 (Jun 16, 2017)

P@triot said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > paying  a grown person 9 bucks an hour claiming you are not paying minimum wage doesn't cut the mustard.
> ...



There is no free market dimwit. And no the person doesn't agree to the wage, they accept the wage if they want a job.

This is why you republicans crashed the economy, you don't know shit about economics.


----------



## IM2 (Jun 16, 2017)

P@triot said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Democrats are for a living wage. Republicans oppose any increase in wages. If there is anything that's going to take people out of poverty, it would be making wages that are above poverty level. So then how can a republican make the comments made here when it is the democrats wanting a national; wage of 15 dollars per hour while republicans say no the government should not be determining the minimum wage?
> ...



Spare me your economics lesson  dumb ass. I have run a business, I know that I can pay my employees more and take less of the profit home or I can pay my employees very little and take more profit home for myself. .I don't necessarily have to raise my process.


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> The business owner can decide to take home less of the profits also.


See what I mean?!? Yes folks...the left really _is_ that stupid.


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Wal Mart has no reason to not pay 15 dollars per hour.


Sure they do. It's called basic economics, _stupid_.


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> A basic standard of living costs $48,778, and nearly a third of families fall short


And whose fault is that? The adults in that family who are trying to raise a family without having the means to do so, and the Dumbocrats who keep enacting policies which are _killing_ jobs.


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Try understanding how wage laws work before you start off on another dumb ass republican taking point filled rant.


How dumb fuck - I know all about the labor laws. I was explaining to you why they don't work. You're too stupid to even follow along and then reply with something that makes sense. No wonder you vote Dumbocrat.


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> You republicans understand the economy so well that you caused it to crash


It was the Dumbocrats who crashed the economy, you uninformed buffoon. I've got $100 right here and now that says you've never heard of the 1997 Community Re-Investment Act.

Thanks for playing, junior.


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> And no the person doesn't agree to the wage, they accept the wage if they want a job.


If they accepted the job - that means they agreed to the wage, _stupid_. Otherwise, they would have turned the job down.


----------



## IM2 (Jun 16, 2017)

P@triot said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > The business owner can decide to take home less of the profits also.
> ...



Like a conservative knows anything.


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> I have run a business


No you haven't. I can tell by your astoundingly ignorant posts that you are still in high school (and no - your lemonade stand does *not* count as "running a business").


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


Wow...what an "intelligent" response there, IM2. 

(Clearly the response of someone in high school)


----------



## IM2 (Jun 16, 2017)

P@triot said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > You republicans understand the economy so well that you caused it to crash
> ...



Given the Community Reinvestment Act was  passed in 1977.........

I'll take that $100.


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

In post #4029, I said:


P@triot said:


> Businesses do *not* eat cost. Like all left-wing nitwits, you _think_ they will be stuck with the bill when you increase minimum wage. But that's not how it works.


Dimwit here proved me right not once, but _twice_:
In post #4032


IM2 said:


> The business owner can decide to *take home less of the profits* also.


And again in post #4035


IM2 said:


> I have run a business, I know that I can pay my employees more and *take less of the profit home*


The left actually believes that a business will eat labor costs. 

While I do laugh my ass off at such stupidity, it is tragic in that they keep making detrimental policy based on that absurd and idiotic belief.


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


Nice Google job, dumb ass. Except we are not talking about Jimmy Carter's "Community Re-Investment Act". We're talking about Bill Clinton's. Ask an adult to help you Google that again.


----------



## IM2 (Jun 16, 2017)

P@triot said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > I have run a business
> ...



I have to laugh at  you. You have no clue, repeat conservative talking points, plus you are getting your ass handed to you. So you turn to the next conservative tactic.


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> You have no clue, repeat conservative talking points, plus you are getting your ass handed to you.


"Getting my ass handed to" me?!? Snowflake, I've obliterated you with *facts* backed up with links. You've had nothing but bizarre, immature, and incoherent posts. You're in high school and everyone knows it yet you're lying and saying you "ran a business" because you're getting crushed so thoroughly by facts.


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

Hey IM2 - remember in post #4029 when I said that businesses will cut labor altogether and automate as one of the three options they will leverage in response to labor cost increases from government regulations? Gee...look what happened in California where the minimum wage was raised to $15 an hour. _Oops_...

Burger Flipping Robot Replaces Workers At Fast Food Restaurant - Breitbart


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> You have no clue, repeat conservative talking points


It's not a "conservative talking point", snowflake. It's called *reality*.


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 - appropriate screen name. You post like you are 2. You understand economics like you are 2.


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## IM2 (Jun 16, 2017)

P@triot said:


> In post #4029, I said:
> 
> 
> P@triot said:
> ...



No it means the business owner will take home  less of the profits. Ypu do understand what PROFITS are don't you?


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> > In post #4029, I said:
> ...


And if the business owner takes home less of the profits, that means they ate the labor costs.

How stupid are you exactly? I feel like I'm talking to a 7th grader right now.


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> > The left actually believes that a business will eat labor costs.
> ...


Folks...you can't make this stuff up.


----------



## IM2 (Jun 16, 2017)

P@triot said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > You have no clue, repeat conservative talking points
> ...



No it's a talking point. I am talking about taking home less  profit which means the company is making money after labor costs and all other casts..


----------



## IM2 (Jun 16, 2017)

P@triot said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > P@triot said:
> ...



No it means they made money after all the costs incurred idiot.


----------



## iamwhatiseem (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> No it means the business owner will take home  less of the profits. Ypu do understand what PROFITS are don't you?



I guarantee you have absolutely no idea what profits are. You probably think it is money left over after paying labor/materials and bills.


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> No it means the business owner will take home less of the profits.


If I'm the CEO of a corporation - I *can't* accept less profit because that will cause the price of my stocks to decrease, which will cause my shareholders and board of directors to fire me.

I ask again - how *dumb* are you IM2?


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


Yeah...and it means they made less money because they ate the labor costs. Something they are *not* going to do. Ever.

You are just too young to be discussing this stuff, son. Go play some video games or something and come back in about 10 years. Ok?


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> I am talking about taking home less  profit which means the company is making money after labor costs and all other casts..


Yes...and if they took home less profit, then they ate the increased labor costs. No business is going to do that. And a corporation *can't* do that. A decrease in profits means a decrease in stock value. Which means the shareholders instruct the board of directors to fire the CEO.

This proves once again that the left is completely ignorant of basic business and basic economics.


----------



## IM2 (Jun 16, 2017)

P@triot said:


> IM2 - appropriate screen name. You post like you are 2. You understand economics like you are 2.



I understand that if I take home 100,000 in profits each month then I will be a millionaire for the year. If I take home 20.000 less per month because I pay employees 15.00 per hour then I still make 980,000 for that year and I am not hurting.


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> The business owner can decide to *take home less of the profits* also.





IM2 said:


> I have run a business, I know that I can pay my employees more and *take less of the profit home*


----------



## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> I understand that if I take home 100,000 in profits each month then I will be a millionaire for the year.


Clearly you don't understand _shit_. If you bring home $100,000 per month, you'll make roughly $420,000 for the year after the government takes 65% of what you brought home in the form of federal income tax, state income tax, local income tax, property tax, sales tax, gas tax, and more.

It's just one of many things high school kids don't realize.


----------



## iamwhatiseem (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 - appropriate screen name. You post like you are 2. You understand economics like you are 2.
> ...



Nor do you realize that if you pay an employee $15 an hour, they actually cost approx. $21.50 per hour out-of-pocket. And of course there are several other employee cost above that. The $21.50 is just OOP cost.


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## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> I understand that if I take home 100,000 in profits each month then I will be a millionaire for the year. If I take home 20.000 less per month because I pay employees 15.00 per hour then I still make 980,000 for that year and I am not hurting.


By the way snowflake, please explain to the class what small business owner is bringing home $100,000 per month (or $1.2 *million* per year).

I know you don't understand this because you're in high school - but each McDonald's restaurant is *not* run by the corporation. They are run by small businesses owners who purchased a franchise from the corporation. Do you know what the average franchise owner brings home? Of course you don't - you're still in high school. The answer is between $100,000 - $200,000 per *year*. Not per month, dimwit. Per _year_. Do you know what a measly $100,000 is after all taxes? You're walking away with roughly $40,000 - $45,000 a year to live off of. No remind me again why I'm going to take a $20,000 cut on my $40,000 so my burger flipper can double their salary? Idiot.


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## Papageorgio (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 - appropriate screen name. You post like you are 2. You understand economics like you are 2.
> ...



Check your numbers, they don't add up. $100,000 a month for a year is $1,200,000 a year. $20,000 a month for a year is $240,000 your net is $960,000. 

It is a business you own? And you have the business "take home pay?"  Businesses have a profit, if you are paying yourself that is an expense of the business, hence no profit for the business. Your wages counter acted the "profit".

To me, It sounds like you own a job. Most small businesses operate this way.


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## IM2 (Jun 16, 2017)

P@triot said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > P@triot said:
> ...



.Thus beginneth the lesson.

Last year Walt Mart made 123 billion dollars after all costs .Could the Walton family live on 50 billion after paying workers 15 dollars per hour? Would they really need to raise their prices if they are making 400 plus billion dollars in total sales?

No.

At they eating any costs if they go home with a 50 billion dollar profit instead of 123 billion?

No.

Thus endeth the lesson.


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## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Thus beginneth the lesson.
> 
> Last year Walt Mart made 123 billion dollars after all costs .Could the Walton family live on 50 billion after paying workers 15 dollars per hour? Would they really need to raise their prices if they are making 400 plus billion dollars in total sales?
> 
> ...


Walmart is a publicly traded company, you moron. If they they eat a 100% increase in their labor costs, their stock prices will plummet. Their shareholders will insist that the board of directors fire the CEO.

Thus you are a *moron*. Thus endeth the lesson.


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## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> At they eating any costs if they go home with a 50 billion dollar profit instead of 123 billion?


Yes, dumb ass! In that scenario, they are eating *$73 billion* in labor costs. We all knew that basic business and basic economics escaped you. Apparently basic math does as well.


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## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Last year Walt Mart made 123 billion dollars after all costs .Could the Walton family live on 50 billion after paying workers 15 dollars per hour? Would they really need to raise their prices if they are making 400 plus billion dollars in total sales?


This poor dimwit thinks that the Walton family owns Walmart... 


> So, Wal-Mart is *not* family owned, but rather owned by its stockholders


Just how wealthy is the Wal-Mart Walton family?


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## danielpalos (Jun 16, 2017)

P@triot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Where are all their initiatives to help struggling black families?
> ...


He had to bailout the rich, not blacks.


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## danielpalos (Jun 16, 2017)

P@triot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting spin; when it is the right wing that has, nothing but repeal.
> ...


End our drug war, right wingers; or, national thong day for right wing women!


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## iamwhatiseem (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> .Thus beginneth the lesson.
> 
> Last year Walt Mart made 123 billion dollars after all costs .Could the Walton family live on 50 billion after paying workers 15 dollars per hour? Would they really need to raise their prices if they are making 400 plus billion dollars in total sales?
> 
> ...




Lesson...Walmart is a terrible example for your purposes. You should have used Apple.


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## danielpalos (Jun 16, 2017)

Henry Ford doubled autoworker wages, not minimum wages; only lousy capitalists complain.


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## IM2 (Jun 16, 2017)

P@triot said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > I understand that if I take home 100,000 in profits each month then I will be a millionaire for the year. If I take home 20.000 less per month because I pay employees 15.00 per hour then I still make 980,000 for that year and I am not hurting.
> ...



A business has to make 500,000 per year to pay the minimum wage.

Aside for the fact I know franchise owners, I am going to ignore your ignorance and tries to make personal attacks..A 15 dollar per hour wage is what we need to live here.  This wage can be established and implemented without hurting anyone. Your ignorance in this matter is shown when you don't understand that this cab be done by raising the amount of money a business must make before they pay this wage and they can also provide age requirements for paying this wage.

.


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## IM2 (Jun 16, 2017)

iamwhatiseem said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > .Thus beginneth the lesson.
> ...



Wal Mart was good enough.


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## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Your ignorance in this matter is shown when you don't understand that this cab be done by raising the amount of money a business must make before they pay this wage


Bwahahaha! Yeah - they tried that with Obamacare snowflake. How did that work out?

Businesses eliminated jobs to stay below the threshold. Proving once again that idiotic left-wing policy is a job killer. Only the left incentivizes being less successful and punishes being more successful.


IM2 said:


> and they can also provide age requirements for paying this wage.


Yeah...that's called *discrimination*, genius. Why should a failure in life get paid more for doing the exact same job just because they are older?!?


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## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Wal Mart was good enough.


No it wasn't. You got _humiliated_ on your idiotic Walmart example.


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## danielpalos (Jun 16, 2017)

Equal protection of the law for unemployment compensation, right wingers; don't "hate on the poor but blame the left", right wingers.


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## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Henry Ford doubled autoworker wages, not minimum wages


Exactly, snowflake! The business owner decided the salary of his own free will. *Not* the government. Thank so for disproving your own position.


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## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Equal protection of the law for unemployment compensation


Already exists, dimwit.


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## danielpalos (Jun 16, 2017)

P@triot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Equal protection of the law for unemployment compensation
> ...


Nobody should take the right wing seriously about the law, or economics, or politics.

Labor should be able to quit on an at-will basis to be proactive; with lousy capitalists who whine about doubling minimum wages instead of autoworker wages; and receive unemployment compensation on an at-will basis in our employment at will States.


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## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Labor should be able to quit on an at-will basis


They can quit on an "at-will" basis, you dimwit. Nobody can force a person to show up for their job the next day. LMAO!!!

This is why *nobody* takes the left seriously about the law, economics, business, politics, or anything else.


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## Papageorgio (Jun 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



He chose to bailout the rich. He could have went after them and he didn't. Why because he owed them. It's all okay, because that is politics. Politics is where the rich write the rules for the rich and other than lip service, don't give a damn about the middle class or the poor.


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## danielpalos (Jun 16, 2017)

P@triot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Labor should be able to quit on an at-will basis
> ...


ran out of argument ethic, right winger?  how lazy.  

Labor should be able to quit on an at-will basis to be proactive; with lousy capitalists who whine about doubling minimum wages instead of autoworker wages; and receive unemployment compensation on an at-will basis in our employment at will States.


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## danielpalos (Jun 16, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > P@triot said:
> ...


the drug war can be ended by executive order in five minutes or less.


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## Papageorgio (Jun 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I am all for it, I could quit working altogether, sit at home and have the government pay to send me on vacations 24/365! Bring it on! My wife could get unemployment and we could live comfortably. Of course I trying to figure out if we all quit our jobs, who is going to fix my food?


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## IM2 (Jun 16, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > P@triot said:
> ...



No I started a business with a friend. That meant we owned it. Now you can quibble over  960,000 or 980,000 like that makes a major difference but the fact is that if you are make 960,000 for a year you ae not hurting. And you guys need to quit with your disingenuous arguments about small businesses. A small business as defined by the SVA unless it changed the definition , included businesses that made up to 10 million dollars annually. Now if you want to talk about real small mom and pops, if they don't make 500,000 per year, then they are not required to pay a minimum wage..

Now let me say this to shut up the notion that if you are not the business owner that you "own a job". f you are named the top executive of a company you are responsible for the bottom line of that company just as much as if you own it. And if you do not meet that line, you will be just as fired as the business owner who had to close business for not meeting that same line.


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## Papageorgio (Jun 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



And Obama didn't do it, I wonder why?


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## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Labor should be able to quit on an at-will basis to be proactive


Be "proactive" with _what_?!? You apparently don't know what that term means as you're not even using it coherently.

That's like saying "a grandmother should be able to make pancakes....to be *proactive*".


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## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> No I started a business with a friend.


I already told you - a lemonade stand does *not* count as a "business".


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## Papageorgio (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



They are not required to pay federal minimum wage, in many states they would have to pay the state minimum wage, which in many cases over federal wages. 

If you can not walk away from your business for a year then you own a job, not a business. Most small mom and pops are owning a job. They work there, they can't leave it for a week, let alone a year and still have it still growing and systems still working.


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## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Labor should be able to quit on an at-will basis to be proactive; and receive unemployment compensation on an at-will basis in our employment at will States.


Unemployment compensation is insurance, you dimwit. Insurance is *not* paid out to intentional acts by the insured. If a person carrying life insurance commits suicide, the claim is *not* paid. If a person carrying home insurance burns their house down on purpose, the claim is *not* paid. Why should someone receive unemployment for intentionally quitting their job?!?

This is why *nobody* takes the left seriously about the law, economics, business, politics, or anything else.


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## IM2 (Jun 16, 2017)

P@triot said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > No I started a business with a friend.
> ...


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## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


This isn't the thread for posting selfies, snowflake.


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## danielpalos (Jun 16, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > P@triot said:
> ...


Increasing the cost of labor means capital will seek gains from efficiency.


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## danielpalos (Jun 16, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


His premise was, he had a "mandate" to bailout blacks, but the rich are worthmore, not worthless under our form of Capitalism.


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## Papageorgio (Jun 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



It means I can stay home! I get paid to do nothing! Why would I want to work if I get paid to stay home?


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## P@triot (Jun 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Increasing the cost of labor means capital will seek gains from efficiency.


Business is *always* seeking gains from efficiency - even without labor cost increases. Your comment was extra stupid.


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## danielpalos (Jun 16, 2017)

P@triot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Labor should be able to quit on an at-will basis to be proactive
> ...


dude; deliberate incompetence is just plain "lazy"; don't be a lazy boy.

Why would any private sector in our Republic have a problem if Labor has recourse to unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed on an at-will basis in or at-will employment States?


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## danielpalos (Jun 16, 2017)

P@triot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Labor should be able to quit on an at-will basis to be proactive; and receive unemployment compensation on an at-will basis in our employment at will States.
> ...


It is public policy and better employed (pun intended) as a social safety net.

It better promotes,the general welfare.


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## danielpalos (Jun 16, 2017)

P@triot said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Increasing the cost of labor means capital will seek gains from efficiency.
> ...


Social services cost around fourteen dollars an hour, anyway.


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## IM2 (Jun 16, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



This is your opinion. .Most people open a business because they like what they do and want to get paid for it. So they go every day,

Now in our business we were gone days at a time  and things still ran.


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## danielpalos (Jun 16, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


To protest lousy capital management.  Why should Labor be required to be, "loyal or starve", in modern times.


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## Papageorgio (Jun 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



I ran a few businesses, and I love to work, however if I couldn't leave the business for a year without it falling off, then I owned a job. I liked the work, however it wasn't really a business, businesses run themselves. I used to be gone a couple weeks at a time but it was still a job.


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## Papageorgio (Jun 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Protest? Nope, too much like work and I'll get paid to stay at home! Can't get better than that can you? Isn't that what you are advocating? If we all have equal protection, then why should I be forced to protest?


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## danielpalos (Jun 16, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Don't hate on the poor, right winger; don't complain, be patriotic.  

It is about, equal protection of the laws of demand and supply.


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## Papageorgio (Jun 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I'm not hating, I want to stay home and get paid just like you. You want to make people do things for their money, that isn't equal protection. If you get equal protection for being unemployed then why do you feel the need to make people do anything?


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## danielpalos (Jun 16, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


You have no clue.  Equal protection of the law matters.


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## Papageorgio (Jun 16, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



So by law I am owed a job? What if I don't like the job?


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## danielpalos (Jun 17, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Only in right to work States that observe the moral of true witness bearing. 

Otherwise, unemployment compensation for lousy capitalists getting a tax preference to create jobs booms, but don't.


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## Papageorgio (Jun 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I'll go there and not work and they can pay me.


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## danielpalos (Jun 17, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Sure; at the rock bottom cost of a market friendly form of minimum wage; so the private sector won't need any red tape for one.


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## Papageorgio (Jun 17, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



I'm good with that, no work, getting paid and chillin. Let's hope you get that made into law.


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## danielpalos (Jun 17, 2017)

Equal protection of the law, right wingers; don't, "hate on the poor"!


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## theHawk (Jun 17, 2017)

Brain357 said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Unions have declined because the union members got laid off and their jobs went to Mexico or China.


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