# Nvidea !!!



## Douger (Jun 23, 2012)

I fully agree.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqCGaSw5Bes&feature=related]Linus Torvalds - Message to Nvidia - YouTube[/ame]


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## Sallow (Jun 23, 2012)

I like Torvalds. He's basically one of those people you really admire because he didn't make a kabillion dollars on a useful product and basically gave it away out of love of humanity and being productive.

He's like the Jonas Salk of tech.


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## Ringel05 (Jun 23, 2012)

That's interesting, NVIDIA is the only graphics card I've never had an issue with running Linux, Radeon on the other hand.............


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## Ringel05 (Jun 25, 2012)

Ahhhh, did a little research, Torvalds (and some other Linux purists) wants NVidia to hand over all their graphics internals to the Linux community, NVidia prefers to keep their internals proprietary.  Given what I've discovered, I'll say, Fuck you Linus Torvalds!


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## iamwhatiseem (Jun 26, 2012)

Interesting...like Ringel I am confused..I have never had a problem with NVidea and any Linux flavor.
Guessing they want the Nvidea driver set to be included in installs rather than having to download the proprietary driver after installation....not a big deal...after installation all you do is click the driver icon and it installs.


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## oldernwiser (Jun 29, 2012)

iamwhatiseem said:


> Interesting...like Ringel I am confused..I have never had a problem with NVidea and any Linux flavor.
> Guessing they want the Nvidea driver set to be included in installs rather than having to download the proprietary driver after installation....not a big deal...after installation all you do is click the driver icon and it installs.



And, if you get lucky, it'll work.
If nVidia's proprietary driver works with your architecture... maybe...
And when linux graphics libraries change, there is no real standard for including nVidia hardware - which makes whole systems either inoperative, or revert back to default (as in, every screen should AT LEAST do this) settings.

I, personally, had a very tough battle to get my 9800GT working with linux. nVidia changed their driver set 3 times, and linux updated 2 full revs before it started to work properly. 

nVidia's stance on the issue is "It works fine in Windows"


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## iamwhatiseem (Jun 30, 2012)

oldernwiser said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting...like Ringel I am confused..I have never had a problem with NVidea and any Linux flavor.
> ...



You may be right...it is true that I bought systems from Zareason which are designed for Linux...however I also have laptops that I run Linux on...a Dell and an HP.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jul 2, 2012)

Never had trouble with Nvidia OR ATI/AMD under Linux. But I do stick to the popular distros, Ubuntu, Mint, et al...


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## nitroz (Jul 12, 2012)

Ringel05 said:


> That's interesting, NVIDIA is the only graphics card I've never had an issue with running Linux, Radeon on the other hand.............



Lol, yeah. I love my GTX 560 2GB.

I had an Radeon and ended up having to take it back the next day because I would get the blue screen of death because of it and it would say windows prevented the device from doing damage to the hardware. But my Nvidia on the other hand..... 0 PROBLEMS! Even if I O/C it and put it on a setting of more than it can handle, it just goes back to stock settings.

I get about 45-50+ constant FPS on BF3 on ultra resolution for everything at 1440x900 resolution. 








It's a mess because it's a tiny dell that has a few mods.
The PSU came with so many wires, so it's a mess on the inside and I have to leave the side panel off all the time because of the extra heat the PSU and GPU makes. The case is simply too small to handle that.


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## oldernwiser (Jul 12, 2012)

nitroz said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> > That's interesting, NVIDIA is the only graphics card I've never had an issue with running Linux, Radeon on the other hand.............
> ...



I run with covers off too... my 9800's gpu temp is usually around 62C using the card in HD mode, but any dust in the fins at all cause that to ramp - at which point, my monitor goes to sleep and I have to reboot again. I always have a can of air at the ready.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jul 12, 2012)

oldernwiser said:


> I run with covers off too... my 9800's gpu temp is usually around 62C using the card in HD mode, but any dust in the fins at all cause that to ramp - at which point, my monitor goes to sleep and I have to reboot again. I always have a can of air at the ready.



A well designed case directs airflow across critical components. The ideas is to keep the air moving and exchanging so that chipset, hard drives and other passively cooled components are kept cool, The CPU and GPU have their own cooling systems, but the rest of the components do not. By having the side off of the case, you disrupt the forced air flow.

I'm a fanatic, admittedly.

These are my specs;

XCLIO 2000 Black & Titanium Case
KingWin Gold Certified 80+ 1000 Watt PS
ASUS P8P67 Pro Motherboard
Intel Core I7 2600K @ 4.6 gHz
Corsair CWCH70 Hydro Series H70 CPU Liquid Cooler
CORSAIR Vengence 8GB
2 X Diamond Radeon 5870's In Crossfire
OCZ RevoDrive 80 GB PCIE SSD (540 MBps Read)
1TB WD Black Edition SATA 3 + 500 GB WD enhanced 32mb Cache SATA 2
Panasonic DVD
Windows 7 - 64 bit 

This is the case involved






The front fans draw air in, the top and back exhaust the hot air. This keeps it stable while pushing it to 4.6. While the Vengence series has massive heat sinks, they still need solid airflow to keep them stable at 2100


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## bobcollum (Jul 12, 2012)

5870s in crossfire. 

Does it play Crysis?


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## Uncensored2008 (Jul 12, 2012)

bobcollum said:


> 5870s in crossfire.
> 
> Does it play Crysis?



LOL

Quite nicely. 

The Dirt series pushes them more than any other game I have. Dirt 2 was the showcase for DX11 features.


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## oldernwiser (Jul 12, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> oldernwiser said:
> 
> 
> > I run with covers off too... my 9800's gpu temp is usually around 62C using the card in HD mode, but any dust in the fins at all cause that to ramp - at which point, my monitor goes to sleep and I have to reboot again. I always have a can of air at the ready.
> ...



Maybe my card just has a poor design - maybe it's my HP Pavilion....

Covers on, and I'm in there every other week blowing out the fins and the temp hovers around 66C - dangerously close to safety shut down.
Cover off, and I roll for a few months with a very slow ramp time and a slightly reduced GPU temp.

Incidentally, this wasn't an issue with the OEM video card. The machine came with a nVidia 9600GT which suffered fan failure while I was playing Crysis. Immediate incineration of the GPU, and new scorch marks on the card above it.

Been running cover off ever since...


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## Uncensored2008 (Jul 12, 2012)

oldernwiser said:


> Maybe my card just has a poor design - maybe it's my HP Pavilion....
> 
> Covers on, and I'm in there every other week blowing out the fins and the temp hovers around 66C - dangerously close to safety shut down.
> Cover off, and I roll for a few months with a very slow ramp time and a slightly reduced GPU temp.



Design does make a big difference. The old pot metal cases with only the fan from the PSU were better off in ambient air. 



> Incidentally, this wasn't an issue with the OEM video card. The machine came with a nVidia 9600GT which suffered fan failure while I was playing Crysis. Immediate incineration of the GPU, and new scorch marks on the card above it.
> 
> Been running cover off ever since...



These are all the reasons that I build my machine from components rather than buying a boxed one. Most of the Dells I've had come in over the last few years have a good case design, but I don't know about HP, don't buy them. The machine I listed is obviously my home machine, but for work I buy Dells mostly. I'll build an engineering work station with a $5,000 Quadro, but for general purposes the Optiplex machines are just fine.


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## oldernwiser (Jul 12, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> oldernwiser said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe my card just has a poor design - maybe it's my HP Pavilion....
> ...



I was originally planning to build my box myself - I had speced out everything and was set to go. Then I bumped into the HP offering which had very nearly everything I wanted and would have put into the box at about $300 less than what I was going to spend on the components.

My only real sacrifice was the HDD, I wanted 1TB and the box came with 750GB.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jul 12, 2012)

oldernwiser said:


> I was originally planning to build my box myself - I had speced out everything and was set to go. Then I bumped into the HP offering which had very nearly everything I wanted and would have put into the box at about $300 less than what I was going to spend on the components.
> 
> My only real sacrifice was the HDD, I wanted 1TB and the box came with 750GB.



I'm going to bet you haven't filled the 750 and it isn't really an issue.

The problem with boxed computers is that though they generally run fine as built, most have the bare minimum to do so.

An example is a guy here are work bought an HP, which ran fine. But he wanted to run Shogun 2, so he picked up a GTX 540 and put it in the box. But the GXT cards from Nvidia require an external PCI power connection, which the HP didn't have. So he had to buy a new power supply just to be able to run the card. Yes, there are adapters that let the Molex connectors work, but the PSU was only 260 watts, not nearly enough to run a higher end card. I talked him into getting at least a bronze certified 600 watt. 

Now you make me wonder what the added heat will do to his machine. It did have a rear exhaust fan, but no intake.


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## oldernwiser (Jul 12, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> oldernwiser said:
> 
> 
> > I was originally planning to build my box myself - I had speced out everything and was set to go. Then I bumped into the HP offering which had very nearly everything I wanted and would have put into the box at about $300 less than what I was going to spend on the components.
> ...



Heh - actually, the Seagate 750G was about 4/5 full when it started to screech one night. Wiped out Windows and all the neat little pre-packaged no-disk-included utilities. Luckily, I had made the recovery dvr's which saved me from having to buy Vista a 2nd time.

I got my 1TB drive - a nice Western Digital Caviar which is now holding nearly 700G of data partitioned in both Windows and Linux. It's getting close to time to start thinking about getting him a friend.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jul 12, 2012)

oldernwiser said:


> Heh - actually, the Seagate 750G was about 4/5 full when it started to screech one night. Wiped out Windows and all the neat little pre-packaged no-disk-included utilities. Luckily, I had made the recovery dvr's which saved me from having to buy Vista a 2nd time.
> 
> I got my 1TB drive - a nice Western Digital Caviar which is now holding nearly 700G of data partitioned in both Windows and Linux. It's getting close to time to start thinking about getting him a friend.



Good plan.

I've gone to using an SSD for my boot drive. It speeds everything up an astounding amount, particularly when coupled with SATA 3 (6mbps) AND the SSD's have gotten cheap, an 80 like mine is now only about $100 if you watch the sales.


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## oldernwiser (Jul 12, 2012)

Haven't had any problems with boot speeds, really... but then I only use Windows when I want to watch Netflix in my office. My box takes longer to POST... 

The BIOS I have prevents me from booting from the USB port - a minor inconvenience, it would be nice to have a few linux distros preloaded


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## Uncensored2008 (Jul 12, 2012)

oldernwiser said:


> Haven't had any problems with boot speeds, really... but then I only use Windows when I want to watch Netflix in my office. My box takes longer to POST...
> 
> The BIOS I have prevents me from booting from the USB port - a minor inconvenience, it would be nice to have a few linux distros preloaded



One thing an SSD won't do is increase post time. 

I noted elsewhere in this forum that Windows 7 boots in about a third the amount of time Ubuntu takes - but this is after post completes and I get to the boot menu. Post takes far longer than booting either OS does.

Are you a fan of Unity?


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## oldernwiser (Jul 12, 2012)

In my experience, Ubuntu and Vista are only equal if Vista has just been loaded and hasn't had a chance to get bogged down with too many apps. One of the biggest problems is that a lot of programmers still use TSR technology to keep their apps ready at a keypress - and that really puts a strain on the time slicer.

I actually tried to like Unity. But I found that it was too cumbersome and not at all intuitive to use. It also got in the way of my workflow to the point that I stopped upgrading at 10.11. The 11.04 release is where they ended the "Classic" option. UbuntuStudio, which is the distro I use, slid over to XFCE with the release of 11.04 - I might follow suit one of these days.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jul 12, 2012)

oldernwiser said:


> In my experience, Ubuntu and Vista are only equal if Vista has just been loaded and hasn't had a chance to get bogged down with too many apps. One of the biggest problems is that a lot of programmers still use TSR technology to keep their apps ready at a keypress - and that really puts a strain on the time slicer.
> 
> I actually tried to like Unity. But I found that it was too cumbersome and not at all intuitive to use. It also got in the way of my workflow to the point that I stopped upgrading at 10.11. The 11.04 release is where they ended the "Classic" option. UbuntuStudio, which is the distro I use, slid over to XFCE with the release of 11.04 - I might follow suit one of these days.



Vista booted slower than Windows 7 - but ran faster due to a better implementation of Superfetch. Part of the boot time of Vista was pre-caching applications that were commonly used. Unfortunately, the FUD from Apple caused Microsoft to scale back Superfetch significantly. Sure, I have a 17 second boot, but applications load slower than in Vista.

Bear in mind that the Longhorn kernel, that both Vista and Windows 7 (as well as 8 and Server 2008R2) uses is not natively a time slicer. With multicore architecture this is full mufti-threading SMP. On an hyperthreaded 8 core system, such as an I7 or Xeon, there is very little chance that a thread would be unable to find an available core and relegated to time slicing. Even the OSX Lion is using a similar technique, as much of the technology belongs to Intel, and not Microsoft. Linux doesn't have access to core architecture features and lags behind significantly on multithreading. This gives both Apple and Microsoft a significant advantage on Core processors.

The issue with Ubuntu 12.04 is two fold. First, Windows 7 is bloody fast, secondly, Unity isn't. Grub loads fast enough, but the Unity shell takes another full minute after grub is loaded. 

Ultimately the weak multithreading on Ubuntu isn't really a big deal, as I am rarely running very much. Maybe an RDP session and a browser. Since application support for most of what I use is simply not there (Wine sucks) I mostly just fart around and then return to Windows when I need to do real work. In my line of work, I live inside of SQL 08R2, Visual Studio, Exchange 2010, Sharepoint and Advanced Reporting. Linux isn't able to run any of these. 

When I used XP, I spent about 60% of my time in Linux, with Windows 7 it's down to about 5% - I like to play around, but Windows 7 is simply a superior OS.


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## oldernwiser (Jul 12, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> oldernwiser said:
> 
> 
> > In my experience, Ubuntu and Vista are only equal if Vista has just been loaded and hasn't had a chance to get bogged down with too many apps. One of the biggest problems is that a lot of programmers still use TSR technology to keep their apps ready at a keypress - and that really puts a strain on the time slicer.
> ...


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## Uncensored2008 (Jul 13, 2012)

oldernwiser said:


> What leads you to this? I run a quad core with the multi-threaded kernel build which supported multiple core architectures. I have great response.



It's not so much a mater of response as one of technology. Intel has refused to allow the Linux community to access hyperthreading technology because the Linux core is open source and the technology must be covered in SLA's. That means that Linux physically cannot acheive the levels of performance on Intel Core hardware that MS and Apple have. Further, there are exceptions to this; Novel signed an NDA and SLA with Intel and DOES include hyperthreading in SUSE, but this is not an open source system, even though it is Linux based.



> Which is yet another good reason not to follow that upgrade path.



Perhaps, but the performance is phenomenal.



> To begin with, I never had much need for SQL beyond what's required for some web servers - MySql works just fine for that. Depending on what you're coding, CodeBlocks or any other IDE works fine for me - true you don't get the automatic windoze support, but I live in linux-land now and don't have any real need to support Win apps.



Yep. I run the IT for a corporation that uses an ERP with embedded CRM and tons of back-office apps. As a result, I need a professional SQL engine. I could use DB2, Oracle, or SQL Server. On smaller hardware, the performance of SQL server is magnitudes better than Oracle, which is tuned more for large farm implementations. Oracle runs beautifully on 5 dozens racks of IBM Blades on Suse, but I don't run 40 million dollar systems so it isn't in my range.



> At any point in time, my system is likely to have a browser or 2 open, an IDE open along with a few terminals, Blender which may even include animated rendering depending on the chore (also maybe a Python editor too), all while running a background Apache server. The only time I really see any performance issues is with rendering software - but that's to be expected with compute-bound jobs.



What OS to use is highly dependent on what you're doing. Where I question things is in that there are many things Ubuntu or Mint do just as well as Windows, but I can't think of anything Linux does better. I have never been in Windows and needed to reboot to run an application in Linux. The reverse is constant, though. Every time I use Linux, I'll end up rebooting to run a Windows application. Plus I like to game, and that just isn't there with Linux.


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