# Teacher Lock-Step Broken!



## PoliticalChic (Oct 18, 2012)

1. "Newark teachers strike* historic deal including bonuses for top educators*

2. NEWARK  The Newark Teachers Union has reached a historic deal with the state that will make the district* the first in New Jersey to offer bonuses based on how teachers perform in the classroom, *union officials said today.

3. ...a three-year contract today that includes annual bonuses that range from $2,000 to $12,500 for teachers rated "effective" or "highly effective" under a new evaluation system,...

4. Teachers unions have traditionally resisted merit pay or any system that would* link compensation to student performance. *Del Grosso said the key to the Newark deal was a provision in the contract that will allow teachers to serve on the committees evaluating colleagues performance in the classroom.

5. Each school will have a three-person evaluation committee that includes a school administrator, a principal and a teacher with equal power,...




6. "We will have a say in our own destiny," Del Grosso said. "Were militant in that we want to control our own profession."



7. ...the union and the district discussed merit pay  or *"performance enhancers" * for months.

8. The Newark Teachers Union represents nearly 3,300 teachers, who oversee 37,000 students in the state-run district. The teachers have been working under the terms of a contract that expired more than two years ago while the two sides tried to reach a new deal.

9. Newarks *merit pay program will be based on a four-tier rating system i*ncluded in new teacher tenure rules Gov. Chris Christie signed into law over the summer.  The new law includes annual evaluations for teachers that will rate them "highly effective," "effective," "partially effective" or "ineffective."

10. ...teachers rated "highly effective" or "effective" would get extra pay. *Teachers who work in less desirable schools or subject areas would also be eligible for bonuses,* union officials said."
Newark teachers strike historic deal including bonuses for top educators | NJ.com



This is the face of the future.....and, really, isn't this moving in the direction we'd hope for?


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## blimpo (Oct 18, 2012)

Let the suckin' up begin!!


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 18, 2012)

blimpo said:


> Let the suckin' up begin!!



Would you mind defining your position.


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## CrusaderFrank (Oct 18, 2012)

Getting paid for excellence and results? WTF! That's almost like free enterprise!


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 18, 2012)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Getting paid for excellence and results? WTF! That's almost like free enterprise!



Almost......

.....how many free market jobs have guaranteed lifetime positions, tenure?
Progressives are responsible for the idea.....


1.	In the 19th century, university professors largely served at the pleasure of the board of trustees of the university. Sometimes, major donors could successfully remove professors or prohibit the hiring of certain individuals; In one debate of the Cornell Board of Trustees, in the 1870s, a businessman trustee argued against the prevailing system of de facto tenure, but lost the argument. Tenure (academic) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




2.	*The modern institution of academic tenure *was hastened by progressive academias solidarity with E.A.Ross, progressive sociologist and social engineer and eugenicist. His thesis was that immigration would lead to race suicide.

3.	He studied at Johns Hopkins under Woodrow Wilson and Richard Ely, and was *influenced, as were most progressives, by German national socialists. *He shared with Wilson and Ely the belief that social progress had to realize innate *differences between races:* Africans and South Americans were close to being savages, and Asians might be more advanced but were degenerating.

a.	He served as a tutor to Teddy Roosevelt on immigration, and Roosevelt wrote the introduction to Rosss Sin and Society.

4.	Ross believed that America was headed for destruction due to immigration, intermarriage, and the refusal of the state to impose *eugenic reforms.* 

a.	He wrote: Observe immigrantsin their gatherings, washed and combed, and in their Sunday best[They] are hirsute, low-browed, big-faced persons of obviously low mentality[C]learly they belong in skins, in wattled huts at the close of the Great Ice Age. These ox-like men are descendants of those who always stayed behind. 
David M. Kennedy, Can We Still Afford To Be A Nation Of Immigrants? Atlantic Monthly, Nov. 1996, p.52-68




5.	Ross got a position at Stanford, but *Stanfords conservative grande dame and benefactor, Jane Lathrop Stanford disliked his loud and crude denunciation of Chinese coolies, *as this position was at odds with the university's founding family, the Stanfords, who had made their fortune in Western rail construction - a major employer of Chinese laborers. Ibid.

a.	Numerous professors at Stanford resigned after protests of his dismissal, sparking "a national debate.

b.	*Progressive organizations led by Richard Elys American Economic Association, rallied to his cause. *

c.	The NYTimes and other newspapers editorialized on his behalf.

d.	But, Ross moved on to the University of Nebraska, where he worked with Roscoe Pound, on sociological jurisprudence, and modern liberalisms living Constitution.



6. In 1915, this was followed by the American Association of University Professors' (AAUP) declaration of principlesthe traditional justification for academic freedom and tenure. In 1940, the AAUP recommended that the academic tenure probationary period be seven years -- still the current norm.



So....I wouldn't call education the free market just yet.


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## CrusaderFrank (Oct 18, 2012)

The US Department of Education needs to be closed immediately and the UFT disbanded and treated like it was a Domestic terrorist organization


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 18, 2012)

CrusaderFrank said:


> The US Department of Education needs to be closed immediately and the UFT disbanded and treated like it was a Domestic terrorist organization



Well....definitely the former.


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## blimpo (Oct 20, 2012)

No more collaboration between teachers. It's now finacial war!


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## thanatos144 (Oct 20, 2012)

blimpo said:


> No more collaboration between teachers. It's now finacial war!



They dont do that now.


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## squeeze berry (Oct 20, 2012)

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how would you know?


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## thanatos144 (Oct 20, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


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Cause my sister in law works for the public school system.


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## percysunshine (Oct 20, 2012)

Complicated issue. Many learning problems are due to the home environment of the student. Totally out of control of the school. The compensation system should account for that somehow.


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## thanatos144 (Oct 20, 2012)

percysunshine said:


> Complicated issue. Many learning problems are due to the home environment of the student. Totally out of control of the school. The compensation system should account for that somehow.


Not every schools failure is the parents fault.....I hate that bullshit cop out.


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## percysunshine (Oct 20, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


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It is not a bullshit cop out, it is a statement of fact. It only becomes a cop out if it is used as an excuse to protect incompetence. Like I said, the compensation system should account for it.


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## thanatos144 (Oct 20, 2012)

percysunshine said:


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If you cant do you job there are no excuses.


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## percysunshine (Oct 20, 2012)

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But if nobody can do the job, why should the job exist?


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## blimpo (Oct 22, 2012)

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Hearsay is what you present.

Then I must have stayed an hour after school every Wednesday last year to meet with others to pick winners running at Gulf Stream, Turfway, and Saratoga.

I don't remember ever cashing a ticket so we must have been doing something else...


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## thanatos144 (Oct 22, 2012)

blimpo said:


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this isnt a court dumbass


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## squeeze berry (Oct 23, 2012)

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as a food service worker?


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## editec (Oct 23, 2012)

I'll be interested to see how well this system works.

I'd be very interested in seeing how they determine who is and who is not a superior teacher, too.

What is their criteria for deciding?


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## squeeze berry (Oct 23, 2012)

since i work in a less desireble area ( special ed) then i would be eligible for a bonus in this system.

But since the students are not capable of learning at a normal pace, I would have the bonus taken away or be fired.


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## rosends (Oct 23, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> 1. "Newark teachers strike* historic deal including bonuses for top educators*
> 
> 2. NEWARK  The Newark Teachers Union has reached a historic deal with the state that will make the district* the first in New Jersey to offer bonuses based on how teachers perform in the classroom, *union officials said today.
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So my performance over a year is going to be assessed by three people who haven't spent a year in my classroom. And one of them will be a colleague who will have to look me in the eye and explain why I didn't get the highest rating? And my principal who walked in a few times and doesn't know the dynamics of the room or the need of any particular set of students will decide, and an administrator who is even less involved with the day to day goings on. Wonderful. Is there a rubric to live up to? Can good teaching be quantified and measured in a way which is the same room to room, day to day, subject to subject?

I figure that the teacher will most likely give everyone an "effective" or "highly effective", the principal a "partially effective" or "effective" and the administrator is a crap shoot (depending on whether he is grounded in supervision or business.

I'm in a private school -- no unions, no tenure, no guarantees. You'd think that the measure of teacher effectiveness would be simpler here because the paper trail doesn't need to live up to the same standard of rigor (I can be fired on a day's notice with no cause). It isn't. It is just more political.


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## Grandma (Oct 23, 2012)

The principal should be fully aware of what's going on in each classroom. I'm more concerned about the "school administrator." Who is that?


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## rosends (Oct 23, 2012)

Grandma said:


> The principal should be fully aware of what's going on in each classroom. I'm more concerned about the "school administrator." Who is that?



"should" yes, but part of that depends on the hierarchy -- department chairs, or a director of academics might be that person and the principal might be a manager of the confluence of education and business among other things. schools, like the classroom are all structured differently and many different structures work. so a panel designed based on the expectations of the roles in one school wouldn't necessarily fit in another school.


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## thanatos144 (Oct 23, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


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Actually school psychologist for the county.  We are not talking about you.


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## CrusaderFrank (Oct 23, 2012)

I went to public school in the Bronx and I had some of the best and worst teachers.

The best was Michael Kadish, a science teacher who teach science to anybody (Jimmy Breslin wrote an article about him).

The worst, well there were several, but one in particular bragged that she had not changed her lesson plan for 20 years.

In any market system Mr Kadish would be making a multiple of the worst ones, but our sabotaged system treats them equally.


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## squeeze berry (Oct 23, 2012)

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what we were discussing was your ignorance of education


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## thanatos144 (Oct 23, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


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The only ignorance showing here is yours......Not much you can do about that seeing as you wish to cling to your delusions.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 23, 2012)

rosends said:


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What do you think of this idea:

"(CNN) Standardized tests are nothing new in public schools. Chances are you filled out bubbles on an answer form at some point during your schooling. But for the past few years, scores from statewide tests in English and math have been used to determine which schools are doing a good job of educating students and which are failing.

Teachers in some states are now being labeled good or bad based on their students scores.

Standardized tests have long been used as one measure of a students progress in core subjects. But now, federal funding hinges on test results. It started with President Bushs No Child Left Behind Act, which requires states to rate schools based on test results in order to receive federal funds."
The high stakes of standardized tests  Schools of Thought - CNN.com Blogs


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 23, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> since i work in a less desireble area ( special ed) then i would be eligible for a bonus in this system.
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> But since the students are not capable of learning at a normal pace, I would have the bonus taken away or be fired.



Why?

Doesn't it seem logical that the learning of said students will be judged against the same students at an earlier time?


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## squeeze berry (Oct 23, 2012)

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I'm a classroom teacher,fool


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## squeeze berry (Oct 23, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


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you can have a student with an IQ of 30 in the classroom that is still needing toiliting, a Down student with a reading level og 2nd grade on a good day and an autistic student that can read at 4th grade level but their behavior is off the charts.

How do you make a judgement on that? 

Also, their yearly progress may be unnoticeable or just something like learning to take turns and not grab


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 23, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


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I can't imagine the situation that you suggest, special ed and medical problems, be judged on the same basis as at issue.

Can you?


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## emilynghiem (Oct 23, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> This is the face of the future.....and, really, isn't this moving in the direction we'd hope for?



Wow PC. Now if we could just get public OFFICIALS elected based on performance,
we might actually have something going there!


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 24, 2012)

emilynghiem said:


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But....if that were possible....why would we have debates?


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## thanatos144 (Oct 24, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


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So your one of the reasons our kids don't read at grade level.


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## blimpo (Oct 24, 2012)

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Yes, she forces their parents to divorce, forces kids to join gangs, sell drugs, live on cellphones, text all night, play video games continually, disrespect authority, not attend church, bully others, try alcohol and drugs at early ages, steal, cheat, and lie....

BTW- This is an education forum. 'Your' means possession as in your shoes. 'You're' is the contraction for you are.


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## thanatos144 (Oct 24, 2012)

blimpo said:


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All of what you said is complete bullshit none of those keeps a student from learning with a competent teacher.  It is amazing how many ways you progressives avoid responsibility.


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## squeeze berry (Oct 24, 2012)

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I'm a reading specialist jackass


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## thanatos144 (Oct 24, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


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Yet you blame student for your failures???? Not much of a specialist are you?


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## rosends (Oct 24, 2012)

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Do you really believe each and every word of what you just posted? Do you truly think that any teacher, when confronted with a student who is under the influence, oppositional and defiant, spoiled in every other context and/or asleep will choose to be involved in any classroom experience? I concede that, possibly, a skilled instructor in a one-on-one environment might be able, eventually, to effect learning, but in a regular classroom setting, I don't think that even the best teacher can be assured of making any real progress there. Students have to meet us part of the way. When they choose not to, and not to be open to changing, what can any teacher do when there are 25 other people in the room?

Surely, this will smack some as being imbued with resignation and less than rigor but it is a practical reality divorced from political considerations.


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## thanatos144 (Oct 24, 2012)

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If you cant handle this then find a new profession cause thats the job.


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## rosends (Oct 24, 2012)

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I have been handling it nicely for almost 20 years, thanks. I don't think that you fully understand what the job is. Can you imagine telling a doctor "it is your job to heal him, whether or not he takes the medicine, makes the dietary changes, avoids the behavior or cares enough even to come to your office. Fix him."


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## thanatos144 (Oct 24, 2012)

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 I understand you keep trying to find excuses for failure. Any other profession would see you fired if you failed and tried passing the blame on to the customer.


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## squeeze berry (Oct 24, 2012)

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if you think you can do better why don't you do it?


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## thanatos144 (Oct 24, 2012)

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Because I do not have the temperament to do it.


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## rosends (Oct 24, 2012)

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I'm curious -- by what metric do you have evidence to support your claim of my failure? And what knowledge base do you use to inform your opinion of what makes for successful teaching?


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## thanatos144 (Oct 24, 2012)

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I was using you in the generic sense cause I really don't know how bad you are at your job...


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## blimpo (Oct 24, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> I understand you keep trying to find excuses for failure. Any other profession would see you fired if you failed and tried passing the blame on to the customer.





This shows how ignorant you are on this issue.

Want to use the business model?

We will get our raw material from another supplier because much of what we are getting now is sub-par. 

With your grammer I hope you have no kids....for the sake of a school somewhere.


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## thanatos144 (Oct 24, 2012)

blimpo said:


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Not surprising that you dont understand business ......


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## Unkotare (Oct 24, 2012)

blimpo said:


> With your grammer[sic] ...







Really? You can't even spell it correctly? Just how retired are you?


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## squeeze berry (Oct 25, 2012)

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IOW, you can't do it and have no basis for your assumptions


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## thanatos144 (Oct 25, 2012)

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If you are so good at your job why the fuck are you here online instead of in a damn classroom teaching a kid to read?


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## blimpo (Oct 25, 2012)

Unkotare said:


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I will humbly accept your blame.

I typed quickly and didn't do what I always demanded......proofread.


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## IanC (Oct 25, 2012)

unkotare thinks screaming _ad homs_ and pointing out spelling errors is the same as having a reasoned opinion. actually it is only a waste of space that is annoying to have to scroll past


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## squeeze berry (Oct 25, 2012)

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it might be b/c of the time that I posted that the school was closed and the students were asleep in their beds?


DUMBASS


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## Unkotare (Oct 25, 2012)

IanC said:


> unkotare thinks screaming _ad homs_ and pointing out spelling errors is the same as having a reasoned opinion. actually it is only a waste of space that is annoying to have to scroll past




That hurt will go away if you stop being an idiot.


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## thanatos144 (Oct 26, 2012)

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I see you waited this time.


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## OldUSAFSniper (Oct 26, 2012)

Yesterday, in Tulsa, a student at one of the middle schools was tragically struck and killed while walking across a road.  I was listening to the news when they came on and said that "counselors will be available" for the students.  So I did some checking.  Apparently, when this sort of thing happens, the school district has a number of 'counselors' with whom they contract.  When something, like life happens, these councilors flock to the school.  Naturally, we pay them $100 or more an hour.  So because of this incident, which IS a tragedy, the school district is ponying up several thousand dollars, to make 'counselors' available.

WTF is this?  Really??  You just absolutely have to laugh at this.  Hundreds of administrators, councilors, and feeding children breakfast, lunch and now dinner.  So when are we going to insert that chip into the back of their hand?  And I'll bet we do all of this because "we're so compassionate".

Another excellent thread by PoliticalChic.  The education system has morphed into something that is very, very ugly.  I say tear it all apart and rebuild it from scratch.  I know, maybe we could teach them to read, write, spell and do simple arithmetic?  Naw.... just kidding.  They'd probably need counseling.


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## blimpo (Oct 27, 2012)

With the emotional problems so numerous in society, all this has (unfortunately) spilled over into classrooms
It is my theory that schools were never meant to be "Life Springs" or in roles to be mental hospitals, but that is what has happened.

Under the blanket of inclusion, we have kids roaming school halls that shouldn't be there. Schools weren't designed and teachers haven't been trained to deal with this stuff, yet it exists.

The morphing hasn't been promoted by teachers, I can tell you that. We had one teacher (middle school) that was told he had to be responsible to care for a boy that still poops his pants, if he poops in this guy's class.  He refused, but it created headaches and stress he didn't need or deserve. He won an argument that shouldn't have existed.

We were told that learning had to be a blast and encouraged to let classrooms become zoos. I and others were of the opinion that 'sit down, listen, and do your work is best-order is necessary for basic learning.
Most teachers would love to go back to a time before the PC morphing.


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## squeeze berry (Oct 27, 2012)

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yowza massa


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## blimpo (Oct 27, 2012)

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Magua understand business quite well.

I only taught for part of my life.

I do have the ability to see when some others are full of shat also...


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