# Are we going to take back Fallujah?



## RandomVariable (Feb 11, 2015)

Obama says we are going to defeat ISIS. Currently ISIS controls all or most of Fallujah, population 326,471 (wiki). So in these three years and with the 'limited' combat troops Obama is asking for are we taking back Fallujah?


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## RandomVariable (Feb 11, 2015)

If we are going after ISIS are we partnering with Iran? It would actually complicate operations not to. If we partner with Iran are we going to piss off the Sunnis not aligned with ISIS? (Ain't the CIA just get greatest for getting this whole mess started?)


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 11, 2015)

The Iraqis are going to have to take Fallujah.


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## RandomVariable (Feb 12, 2015)

JakeStarkey said:


> The Iraqis are going to have to take Fallujah.


How much U.S. assistance are they going to need would you guess?


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2015)

I have no idea, but they are going to have to carry the ground load.

We can't do it, the American taxpayer will no longer support it.

The theatre commander has the authority to use tactical nukes.

Better that than massive numbers of American troops on the ground.


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## RandomVariable (Feb 12, 2015)

JakeStarkey said:


> I have no idea, but they are going to have to carry the ground load.
> 
> We can't do it, the American taxpayer will no longer support it.
> 
> ...


That is basically me point there just is no possible way to separate Fallujah from ISIS. I do not think tactic nukes really count as an option. It's not the end of the world just yet.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2015)

Tactical nukes are not the end of the world.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 12, 2015)

JakeStarkey said:


> Tactical nukes are not the end of the world.


The use of Nukes are a last resort, or fall under the MAD principle........................I do not condone their use unless we are hit by WMD's in which case the MAD principle plays out.


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## RandomVariable (Feb 12, 2015)

JakeStarkey said:


> Tactical nukes are not the end of the world.


I was in a tactical nuke unit for a couple years. They may be small but they are still the end of the world.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2015)

No, they are not, and, yes, if necessary, that is the appropriate end of ISIS and all who support them.


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## RandomVariable (Feb 12, 2015)

JakeStarkey said:


> No, they are not, and, yes, if necessary, that is the appropriate end of ISIS and all who support them.


You can't take Fallujah, or any other urban environment, which is where they are, with tactical nukes. 

And this would not be cool by any standards:


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2015)

Who said taking Fallujah with nukes?


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 13, 2015)

The use of Nuclear weapons or saying we need to use them are the talk of an unstable mind.............

I can't stand the word Fahallah as it was shortly after the first battle there that my nephew was permanently disabled by an IED in the same area.  Where a dumb ass political settlement allowed the remaining forces to escape having to later retake the same ground already won and fought for........................

The way to take Fahallah is again to take your time and make use of snipers............The snipers in Fahallah had a field day there..


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## RandomVariable (Feb 13, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> The use of Nuclear weapons or saying we need to use them are the talk of an unstable mind.............
> 
> I can't stand the word Fahallah as it was shortly after the first battle there that my nephew was permanently disabled by an IED in the same area.  Where a dumb ass political settlement allowed the remaining forces to escape having to later retake the same ground already won and fought for........................
> 
> The way to take Fahallah is again to take your time and make use of snipers............The snipers in Fahallah had a field day there..


I agree the key, the only way, is 'take your time'. The same should be said for Ukraine. I am going to start a thread on the status of the cease fire to give my opinion.


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## RandomVariable (Feb 14, 2015)

RandomVariable said:


> If we are going after ISIS are we partnering with Iran? It would actually complicate operations not to. If we partner with Iran are we going to piss off the Sunnis not aligned with ISIS? (Ain't the CIA just get greatest for getting this whole mess started?)


Looks it might actually happen.
Report Iranian leader Khamenei sent Obama a secret letter - Middle East - Israel News Haaretz
By Sandra Maler   Feb. 14, 2015 | 2:41 AM
Obama's letter suggested the possibility of U.S.-Iranian cooperation in fighting Islamic State if a nuclear deal was secured, the paper said, quoting the diplomat.​


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 14, 2015)

Secret letter.........maybe and maybe not...............We should never agree to allow them to develop Nukes.................Of course it would be for peaceful purposes....according to the Politicians should a deal be made.........................

Iran is Shiite..........they should come to the aid of their fellow Shiite's without having to be bribed..........

If it occurs will Iran take and control Iraq in the end and expand their control in the region..................

????????


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## RandomVariable (Feb 14, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Secret letter.........maybe and maybe not...............We should never agree to allow them to develop Nukes.................Of course it would be for peaceful purposes....according to the Politicians should a deal be made.........................
> 
> Iran is Shiite..........they should come to the aid of their fellow Shiite's without having to be bribed..........
> 
> ...


Khamenei would not have sent Obama a letter unless he, Khamenei, thought that Obama had a deal too good to be passed up, in other words the U.S. was absolutely desperate. The CIA kept messing with forces they thought they could control and now one has gotten away from them in a way the rest of us can not walk away from. Khamenei can smell the desperation all the way from Iran. At this point Iran might be the only force that can save Israel. Ain't that a bitch.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 14, 2015)

RandomVariable said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Secret letter.........maybe and maybe not...............We should never agree to allow them to develop Nukes.................Of course it would be for peaceful purposes....according to the Politicians should a deal be made.........................
> ...


Israel doesn't need to be saved........I'm assuming you meant Iraq and Syria..................

ISIS doesn't want to tango with the IDF..........


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## Desperado (Feb 14, 2015)

We gave the Iraqis their freedom, now the Iraqis have to fight to keep it.
The US should not even be there.


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## RandomVariable (Feb 14, 2015)

News from an hour ago:
Tribal leader Iraqi troops in Anbar could collapse within hours - CNN.com
By Greg Botelho and Jomana Karadsheh, CNN Updated 7:45 PM ET, Sat February 14, 2015
An Iraqi tribal leader said Saturday that ISIS militants are gaining ground in Anbar province, predicting a "collapse within hours" of Iraqi army forces there if tribal forces withdraw.

Sheikh Naim al-Gaoud, a Sunni Muslim leader of the Albu Nimr tribe, called for more U.S. intervention -- including ground troops, arming tribes directly or at least pressuring the Iraqi government to give the tribes more firepower.

While U.S. officials have said that ISIS, which calls itself the Islamic State, is on the defensive in Iraq and Syria, al-Gaoud says that's definitely not the case where he is.

"In Anbar, we are losing ground, not gaining," he said.​
Looks like we need to quit buying new friends. (from same article)
Years before, in the mid-2000s, the United States recruited and paid Sunnis like members of al-Gaoud's Albu Mimr tribe to join its fight against al Qaeda. Those efforts helped turn the tide in the war.

But now, al-Gaoud says, ISIS -- which consists of Sunni extremists -- is making his tribe pay the price.

"There are people who will be killed in cold blood, and there will be more massacres," al-Gaoud told CNN in November. "We are getting killed because of our friendship with the Americans. Does a friend abandon his friend like this?"

​


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## RandomVariable (Feb 14, 2015)

Desperado said:


> We gave the Iraqis their freedom, now the Iraqis have to fight to keep it.
> The US should not even be there.


We gave Iraqis their freedom!?!?! That's one way of putting it.


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## RandomVariable (Feb 14, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> RandomVariable said:
> 
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> > eagle1462010 said:
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Do you anything about the end of the world beliefs?


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 14, 2015)

RandomVariable said:


> eagle1462010 said:
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> > RandomVariable said:
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How is that applicable now...............

I know some of Revelations and the temple mount.


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## RandomVariable (Feb 14, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> RandomVariable said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...


Wasn't that convenient? Just happened to run into this just now:
Is Jordan Facilitating ISIS Grand Strategy Alastair Crooke
Alastair Crooke. Posted:  02/13/2015 2:50 pm EST
As I explained last year when I cited an article by the Lebanese paper_ Al-Akhbar _on the topic, a hadith (a saying attributed to the Prophet Muhammad), asserts that the "long-awaited Hour (of Resurrection)" will not arrive for believers until after the Byzantines have landed in al-Amaq (Southern Turkey), or in Dabiq (a Syrian village located to the north of Aleppo). Indeed, there is a conviction that is widely held across disparate sects (including Christians) in the Middle East today that the foretold signs, prefiguring the coming of redemption, are evident in contemporary world events. ISIS' followers take their understanding of the Dabiq "saying" by the prophet to mean that the great battle will take place between the "Crusader West" and Islam -- and that this struggle has been made imminent by ISIS' declaration of the _khilafah_ (caliphate).

For ISIS, the term "Byzantine" is held to stand for today's "Crusader West" and its acolytes. Islamic State fighters assert that this epic "War of the Cross" will unfold with a "crusader" strike on them inside Syria; but that ultimately, the forces of Islam will prevail -- as the prophecy foretells -- and that the coming of the redeemer will then ensue.​


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Feb 14, 2015)

JakeStarkey said:


> The Iraqis are going to have to take Fallujah.


Correct.

It belongs to them, it was never 'ours' to begin with.


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## RandomVariable (Feb 14, 2015)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > The Iraqis are going to have to take Fallujah.
> ...


The Iraqis inside Fallujah or the Iraqis outside of Fallujah?


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## ChrisL (Feb 17, 2015)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > The Iraqis are going to have to take Fallujah.
> ...



No, if we agree to "help" them, then we should be able to set the rules.  Otherwise, let them kill one another.  Why should we spend our people's lives and our money and get NOTHING out of it but grief.  I, for one, am tired of it.  We should become like mercenaries and charge money or something else for our "help."


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