# A Million Americans Are Living In Their RVs



## longknife (Nov 16, 2018)

*Is it because they want to, they lost their other home to repo, or they can’t afford anything else?*

_A million Americans live full-time in RVs, according to the RV Industry Association. Some have to do it because they can’t afford other options, but many do it by choice. Last year was a record for RV sales, according to the data firm Statistical Surveys. More than 10.5 million households own at least one RV, a jump from 2005 when 7.5 million households had RVs, according to RVIA._

*And there’s this:*

_A 30 year mortgage is essentially a suffocating lifetime financial commitment for many people, and so a lot of Americans are choosing to embrace the RV lifestyle in order to escape those financial chains.  One family that the Washington Post recently interviewed says that they are “redefining what the American Dream means”… _

“_We’re a family of four redefining what the American Dream means. It’s happiness, not a four-bedroom house with a two-car garage,” said Robert Meinhofer, who is 45._

_The Meinhofers and a dozen others who spoke with The Washington Post about this modern nomadic lifestyle said living in 200 to 400 square feet has improved their marriages and made them happier, even if they’re earning less. There’s no official term for this lifestyle, but most refer to themselves as “full-time RVers,” “digital nomads” or “workampers.”_

*I don’t see how a family of four could possibly live in an RV, no matter how big it is.*

More of this @ A Million Americans Are Living In Their RVs As The American Dream Continues To Be "Redefined"


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## Maxdeath (Nov 16, 2018)

We sold our house and most of our possessions. We moved into an rv and spend time traveling around the U.S. When I was working I saw portions of the country but we only spent a few days as I only had so long off. 

Now we can go spend a week at a national park, or a month in Houston. We travel the northern states during the summer months and the south in winter. Alaska is great during July and August. 

I don't mind not having to mow the yard, rake leaves or shovel snow. It takes a little getting used to living in a smaller space but then when you are in places like national parks it is easy to spend more time outside then inside.


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## WinterBorn (Nov 17, 2018)

I've lived in an RV when I was on the road.  When we retire we plan to live in one full-time.

Great way to live, explore, and enjoy life.   I'm actually surprised the number isn't higher.  But I would imagine they don't count anyone who owns a regular home.


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## Maxdeath (Nov 17, 2018)

I know a young lady (35 or so) lives in a very small rv, works odd jobs.
Know a number of retired that have done the same as we do.
Know others that live in a house in summer then use one to move south.
Know a family of seven lived and traveled for three years just so the children could see the country. 
There are those that have traveled for many years then just found an RV park that they liked and are now stationary until they die.

There are RV parks that have pools, exercise equipment, tennis courts.
There is one that has an eight hole golf course, woodworking shop, lapidary shop, stained glass shop and others. All for the use of those that stay there.
Some places have bingo nights, horse shoe competitions, pot lucks, banquets on holidays, live entertainment.

You might be parked next to a mechanic or a mechanical engineer. You meet people from all walks of life. 

The article does not take into account those that vacation in the RV. The whole point is that there may be those that are on hard times in an RV. But there are those that chose it for a reason.


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## DGS49 (Nov 18, 2018)

Does this include people living in houseboats (of various types)?

England has a network of small canals, and living in canal boats is a Thing.

FEMA trailer anyone?


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## gipper (Nov 18, 2018)

We full time in a luxury motorhome.  We love it.    We didn’t have to. We wanted to. 

This is my home on wheels.


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## WinterBorn (Nov 18, 2018)

Maxdeath said:


> I know a young lady (35 or so) lives in a very small rv, works odd jobs.
> Know a number of retired that have done the same as we do.
> Know others that live in a house in summer then use one to move south.
> Know a family of seven lived and traveled for three years just so the children could see the country.
> ...



I didn't mean that they should take into account those who live in one for a vacation.   But many people, like me, lived in one while working away from home.   For many years I was only home 6 or 8 days a month, plus holidays.  I was in my travel trailer the rest of the time.  If someone has a regular home, but they are only in it 2 months out of 12, aren't they pretty much living in an RV full time?


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## gallantwarrior (Nov 18, 2018)

I was a full-timer for 10 years.  It's a choice for some, but a necessity for others.  I've known others who lived in an RV full time until they found a place they wanted to spend the rest of their days.  It's a great way to travel and see what's out there.  With the money you save on rent/mortgage payments, you can usually afford a nice down payment on a home.


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## MaryL (Nov 18, 2018)

True. But many more poor dispossessed Americans  are living on the streets. Not by choice but by necessity. But we give sanctuary to illegal aliens.American poor live in tents on streets or forgotten parts of our cities. I don't think they are given so much  high sentiment.


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## gallantwarrior (Nov 18, 2018)

MaryL said:


> True. But many more poor dispossessed Americans  are living on the streets. Not by choice but by necessity. But we give sanctuary to illegal aliens.American poor live in tents on streets or forgotten parts of our cities. I don't think they are given so much  high sentiment.


Agreed.  Lots of people can't even afford an RV.  One of the reasons I am so against welcoming all the illegal invaders into this country is the fact that we really, really, really, need to take care of our own first.  Living in tents in Anchorage in the winter sucks. I did it when I was in the Army, but then, that was a temporary assignment.  
We need to address AMERICANS first, before we allow these welfare-seeking moochers into our country.


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## Maxdeath (Nov 18, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Maxdeath said:
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> > I know a young lady (35 or so) lives in a very small rv, works odd jobs.
> ...


Not sure what they used as a cutoff for living in an RV as far as the article.
I know those of us that do not own a sticks and bricks as we call them, do not consider them fulltime, we call them some timers. Just a bit of a joke, but I think you might well be able to say they live in an RV.

Nothing wrong with either one, just a matter of personal choice. In our case our home was in the north. Did not like the idea of leaving the house alone for months during the winter. Too much of a chance of a window being broke and trying to heat the outside. No need to worry about break-ins. No need to keep up the yard.

Hope you enjoyed your time in your RV as much as possible.


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## Shrimpbox (Nov 18, 2018)

I am not knocking anyone doing this and for those who are retiring, why give the state 30 grand in taxes  a year on your paid off home. But I do worry that the mobile lifestyle is not,conducive to putting down roots and developing communities. Take the hurricane. You folded up the awning and hauled ass probably not to come back any time soon. Where do you vote. How many taxes do you slide by while changing locations? Let me reiterate, I am not knocking anyone doing this but if enough people adopt the gypsy lifestyle for long enough it will become a disrupter


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## MaryL (Nov 18, 2018)

People live in tents  along the by ways, others in forgotten off the beaten path  in tents. Others on side streets. I hate to rain on the happy parade, but we give sanctuary to illegal aliens, and we forget Americans living on the streets. We blame them or other wise demonize them. But as long as some of ya'al have a nice warm RV to live in, god is in his heaven.


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## gallantwarrior (Nov 18, 2018)

All cheer for the gypsy lifestyle!  If retired persons choose to become "full-timers", more power to them.  It's up to them to decide to spend their retirement years and funds travelling and enjoying themselves, or to pay the government for the dubious privilege of living in a community.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 18, 2018)

longknife said:


> *Is it because they want to, they lost their other home to repo, or they can’t afford anything else?*
> 
> _A million Americans live full-time in RVs, according to the RV Industry Association. Some have to do it because they can’t afford other options, but many do it by choice. Last year was a record for RV sales, according to the data firm Statistical Surveys. More than 10.5 million households own at least one RV, a jump from 2005 when 7.5 million households had RVs, according to RVIA._
> 
> ...



Everybody I know who lives in an RV does so by choice and not out of necessity.  And these are not among America's poor by any means or because they can't qualify for a mortgage.  They all could if they wanted to.  I would not like the lifestyle for long periods myself, but I can appreciate how people of a certain temperament would embrace it.


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## Maxdeath (Nov 18, 2018)

Shrimpbox said:


> I am not knocking anyone doing this and for those who are retiring, why give the state 30 grand in taxes  a year on your paid off home. But I do worry that the mobile lifestyle is not,conducive to putting down roots and developing communities. Take the hurricane. You folded up the awning and hauled ass probably not to come back any time soon. Where do you vote. How many taxes do you slide by while changing locations? Let me reiterate, I am not knocking anyone doing this but if enough people adopt the gypsy lifestyle for long enough it will become a disrupter


Don't know about others but as for myself I will answer some of your questions and you decide for yourself.

I vote in the state I use as my state of residence, the one that I use as my mail forwarding address. 
I pay taxes on the RV. 
I pay a company which employs a number of people to keep then forward my mail.
I pay fees at campgrounds which hire people, pay taxes and pay utility bills.
I pay sales taxes everywhere I go. Most campgrounds make you pay a visitors tax on top of sales tax.
I possibly buy more fuel in a year then most retired do in three.

I have numerous friends that I keep in contact with and when possible we meet up at one place or another.
At some point, either age or health you are forced of the road, at that point you revert to your exit strategy, which means moving onto land, buying a house, renting and apartment or whatever.

So though I do not pay a income tax, or real estate tax. I am not bypassing any taxes in the sense you think. But since I visit places and explore areas I do help keep people employed rather then the retired person that spends most of their day in the house and only ventures out to have a cup or two of coffee each day.


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## skye (Nov 18, 2018)

I have neighbors  here who have nice houses ....and love to spend long times in their rvs...

I am not like them

I need walls and fences....I need privacy.... I need stability .......I need my stairs to go up and down in my home.... go to my second floor...to give my pet a stable life....

but....

the fact that I can  not do it...  that I can not live like that....doesn't  mean it's not ok for you

Lord knows it is what it is


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## skye (Nov 18, 2018)

in all truth

I personally would prefer to die....than live like that

I like stability


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## Maxdeath (Nov 18, 2018)

MaryL said:


> People live in tents  along the by ways, others in forgotten off the beaten path  in tents. Others on side streets. I hate to rain on the happy parade, but we give sanctuary to illegal aliens, and we forget Americans living on the streets. We blame them or other wise demonize them. But as long as some of ya'al have a nice warm RV to live in, god is in his heaven.


While I feel sorry for those that are homeless I refuse to have it ruin my life. Some of them do make the choice to live on the street. Some do not. 
I do not agree with allowing illegals in or allowing them to remain. I pay taxes, I help where I can.

But I refuse to allow someone like you to make me feel bad about my life and the way I live it.


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## WinterBorn (Nov 18, 2018)

Maxdeath said:


> WinterBorn said:
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I did and I still am.  Just another year or so and I retire.  So we might be full timing it.   As for now, I am no longer on the road so the RV is for fun.


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## skye (Nov 18, 2018)

Maxdeath said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > People live in tents  along the by ways, others in forgotten off the beaten path  in tents. Others on side streets. I hate to rain on the happy parade, but we give sanctuary to illegal aliens, and we forget Americans living on the streets. We blame them or other wise demonize them. But as long as some of ya'al have a nice warm RV to live in, god is in his heaven.
> ...



Agree.


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## skye (Nov 18, 2018)

If you have a yatch...and a plane....and a big nice RVS.....you know what I'm saying.....


that's ok then.... you can switch......from one to the other............will be fine


but I sense....this is not what   this thread is all about.

LOL too LOL


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## MaryL (Nov 18, 2018)

The American dream has always been to have freedom to live and go were you chose. Steppenwolf born to be wild, wind in your hair stuff.  But for most of the rest of us, that isn't in the cards.  We are stuck between nowhere and nothing, eking out our timid little living. And that is at best.


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## skye (Nov 18, 2018)

if 

rvs

is nice

and huge and luxurious 

well then ...may be yes...

you know what

I think I better say no more


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## WinterBorn (Nov 18, 2018)

skye said:


> if
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> rvs
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I think the mindset is what separates most full timers.   It is not even the size of the RV.   I know people who have sold large, luxurious homes to hit the road in 35' campers.

I doubt my Sweetie and I will ever only live in an RV.   But I do love the time we spend in it.


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## skye (Nov 18, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> skye said:
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good for you....wishing you the best.


we are all different of course LOL


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## gipper (Nov 19, 2018)

skye said:


> WinterBorn said:
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Living in an RV for those with little income, can be very rewarding. There are many places particularly in the southwest where you can stay in beautiful locations, for free or minimal cost.  The many advantages include being outdoors, getting plenty of exercise, and eating a healthy diet of quality fresh food.  It can be a very stress free life style.


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## Wyatt earp (Nov 19, 2018)

Maxdeath said:


> I know a young lady (35 or so) lives in a very small rv, works odd jobs.
> Know a number of retired that have done the same as we do.
> Know others that live in a house in summer then use one to move south.
> Know a family of seven lived and traveled for three years just so the children could see the country.
> ...




It's sounds like they are always running from the cops..



.


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## sparky (Nov 19, 2018)

thread tune!!!


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## WinterBorn (Nov 19, 2018)

gipper said:


> skye said:
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And many times you can work as a Camp Host to cover the cost of your stay.


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## Maxdeath (Nov 19, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> skye said:
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Glad to hear you are retiring soon. Hope it brings you health and happiness. Know about being away from family for work, though I spent mine in motel rooms. I wonder if being in an RV would have been a less lonely feeling. 

Any way best of luck.


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## Geaux4it (Nov 19, 2018)

MaryL said:


> The American dream has always been to have freedom to live and go were you chose. Steppenwolf born to be wild, wind in your hair stuff.  But for most of the rest of us, that isn't in the cards.  We are stuck between nowhere and nothing, eking out our timid little living. And that is at best.


So what does that have to do with how people decide to house themselves? I sold my toy hauler a couple months ago after 4  years of ownership. We had it the last year I worked and first few years of retirement. We took it everywhere from San Diego, Sturgis, all over the AZ desert, Santa Rosa Beach and the Smokey Mountains. We spent 45 days in it last winter out West. 

Things change

Dumped the RV because we have decided to start a mini-farm here in TN. So I have mouths to feed daily... chickens, goats etc..... 

Bought me a plane instead lol

-Geaux


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## Maxdeath (Nov 19, 2018)

MaryL said:


> The American dream has always been to have freedom to live and go were you chose. Steppenwolf born to be wild, wind in your hair stuff.  But for most of the rest of us, that isn't in the cards.  We are stuck between nowhere and nothing, eking out our timid little living. And that is at best.


So what you are wanting me to support you? Are you wanting me to not enjoy my retirement because you did not make the same choices I did? 

I spent most of my working life working 80-90 hours a week. I felt privileged when the last few years was only 60 hours. I will not apologize for catching a few hours of sleep in my vehicle in the parking lot then going back to work. I hated spending months away from home. Working on holidays. Being in another state during Christmas. But I did it so that I could do what I wanted when I retired.

If you expect others to somehow feel sorry or support you then I for one feel sorry for you that you think you need to play the poor me.


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## Geaux4it (Nov 19, 2018)

Maxdeath said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > The American dream has always been to have freedom to live and go were you chose. Steppenwolf born to be wild, wind in your hair stuff.  But for most of the rest of us, that isn't in the cards.  We are stuck between nowhere and nothing, eking out our timid little living. And that is at best.
> ...


Makes me think about Obama's dream of a 'Universal 401K'. Like I should donate my 401k to Uncles Sam so he can slice it among those who don't have one.

No thanks

-Geaux


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## Maxdeath (Nov 19, 2018)

bear513 said:


> Maxdeath said:
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> > I know a young lady (35 or so) lives in a very small rv, works odd jobs.
> ...


Doubt anyone would get very far running from the police with an RV. Not something that can do a get away. 

Most people I see at parks are out talking and you have to register just like at a motel.


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## Wyatt earp (Nov 19, 2018)

Maxdeath said:


> bear513 said:
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Walmart..

You see them a bunch, I know the cops look the other way


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## danielpalos (Nov 19, 2018)

longknife said:


> *Is it because they want to, they lost their other home to repo, or they can’t afford anything else?*
> 
> _A million Americans live full-time in RVs, according to the RV Industry Association. Some have to do it because they can’t afford other options, but many do it by choice. Last year was a record for RV sales, according to the data firm Statistical Surveys. More than 10.5 million households own at least one RV, a jump from 2005 when 7.5 million households had RVs, according to RVIA._
> 
> ...


Some people like to be able to "get up and go".  Sort of like a ship, but without the higher maintenance costs.

I keep looking into modern insulation technologies.


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## Maxdeath (Nov 19, 2018)

bear513 said:


> Maxdeath said:
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Walmart allows RVs to camp overnight. They believe that it helps their business since most that stop also buy. Cracker Barrel, Basspro and others do the same. Some cities do not allow overnights in any parking lots. 

No matter how you try to make it last, at some point, usually every few days, you have to plug in to power and dump your holding tanks, plus take on water.

You would do better To try and evade the police in a car or truck.
Sorry that this does not fit your narrative.


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## danielpalos (Nov 19, 2018)

Maxdeath said:


> bear513 said:
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What do you think of a return to outdoor movie theaters, with electrical hookups for RVs?  

Another place to hangout.  

A diner, RV wash, car wash, and restrooms and showers and even tank flushing; 

could be convenient _and_ easy.  there is usually money to be made with that, under Capitalism.


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## irosie91 (Nov 19, 2018)

danielpalos said:


> Maxdeath said:
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at the very least-----at the  "refreshment stand"   where on can buy dancing hot dogs and boxes of popcorn


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## danielpalos (Nov 19, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> danielpalos said:
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a modern and expanding niche market.  let's try to learn on the learning curve.


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## irosie91 (Nov 19, 2018)

danielpalos said:


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it's nothing new------large flea markets and "fairs"    harbor lots of them


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## danielpalos (Nov 19, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> danielpalos said:
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existing empty outdoor theater lots could be upgraded.  wifi access could be included.

once upgraded, they could be multiuse.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 19, 2018)

Maxdeath said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > People live in tents  along the by ways, others in forgotten off the beaten path  in tents. Others on side streets. I hate to rain on the happy parade, but we give sanctuary to illegal aliens, and we forget Americans living on the streets. We blame them or other wise demonize them. But as long as some of ya'al have a nice warm RV to live in, god is in his heaven.
> ...



Yours is a poignant post.  I doubt there are many of us who don't feel for those living in terrible circumstances.  We cannot afford to give much at this stage of our lives, but most of what we give goes to organizations who help those who have little or nothing.  Whether legal or illegal, the poor exist and probably so many millions of poor illegals pouring into the country is adding to their number.

But not a single one of them is where they are because any of us have chosen not to live like that.  And if I chose to live like that--sold everything I had and gave it all to the homeless and myself became homeless--it not only would do little or nothing to help the problem, but I would be in a position that I could not help as much as I do. I would become part of the problem.  America impoverishing itself would be much more immoral than being rich.  Now we can help people around the world.  As a poor country we would not be able to do so.

We will never help the poor in any way by making the rich poorer.

No responsible person should apologize for the lifestyle they choose so long as they are not harming anybody else.  Like Skye, it isn't for me, but I can sure appreciate how others love the RV life.  And I imagine the RVers enjoy more of a sense of community with other RVers than so many who know and interact with few, if any, of their neighbors.


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## gallantwarrior (Dec 2, 2018)

Foxfyre said:


> longknife said:
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> > *Is it because they want to, they lost their other home to repo, or they can’t afford anything else?*
> ...


There used to be a USMB coffee shopper who traveled in his RV until he found a place he liked enough to settle.  I can't remember his name.


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## gallantwarrior (Dec 2, 2018)

Geaux4it said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > The American dream has always been to have freedom to live and go were you chose. Steppenwolf born to be wild, wind in your hair stuff.  But for most of the rest of us, that isn't in the cards.  We are stuck between nowhere and nothing, eking out our timid little living. And that is at best.
> ...


I will vouch that having a farm will tie you down, a lot.  But there is something to be said for that lifestyle, too.  I travelled a lot when I was younger and I am really looking forward to the daily routine of caring for my critters, making my cheese, mead, and other things without having to dash off to work.


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## EvilCat Breath (Dec 2, 2018)

I spent my early years homeless and traveling with my parents.  They loved the freedom.  No job to show up for.  No landlord chasing the rent.  Just the open road and kindly people willing to give us a ride, or a meal or a place to flop for the night.   Gad how I learned to despise those do gooders.   To my parents those were the best days of their lives.  The best being chasing the charity of their betters.


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## danielpalos (Dec 2, 2018)

RV's may be a good choice for electric.  The long base is a potential battery storage capacity.


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## danielpalos (Dec 2, 2018)

It could be as simple as "plugging in to an outdoor movie theatre outlet."


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## gipper (Dec 2, 2018)

danielpalos said:


> RV's may be a good choice for electric.  The long base is a potential battery storage capacity.


My motorhome weighs 45,000 pounds. No way to move it affordably and effectively on electric.  Maybe some day.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 2, 2018)

danielpalos said:


> It could be as simple as "plugging in to an outdoor movie theatre outlet."



Providing elctric power will always come at a cost.  RV parks are becoming more expensive.  An old drive-in theater would work well, but putting in all that underground wiring and water pipes will be expensive.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 2, 2018)

gipper said:


> danielpalos said:
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The trick is the power storage.  A diesel locomotive is actually run by an electric motor.  The diesel runs the generator.


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## Maxdeath (Dec 2, 2018)

danielpalos said:


> It could be as simple as "plugging in to an outdoor movie theatre outlet."


It costs a large sum of money to put in 50 and 30 amp service in each spot. Then add in water and sewer. Most people will not stay long in a parking lot, they want some space between each other and lawn a few trees near. They often want wifi, pool and at a minimum a meeting place. If they are going to stay more then a night or two they will want things that make them want to stay.


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## Darkwind (Dec 2, 2018)

longknife said:


> *Is it because they want to, they lost their other home to repo, or they can’t afford anything else?*
> 
> _A million Americans live full-time in RVs, according to the RV Industry Association. Some have to do it because they can’t afford other options, but many do it by choice. Last year was a record for RV sales, according to the data firm Statistical Surveys. More than 10.5 million households own at least one RV, a jump from 2005 when 7.5 million households had RVs, according to RVIA._
> 
> ...


I'd do it for sure.

Need a class A license for this one (which I have), but hell, its a good way to live.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 2, 2018)

Darkwind said:


> longknife said:
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> > *Is it because they want to, they lost their other home to repo, or they can’t afford anything else?*
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There are some very nice travel trailers and 5th wheels for 1/4 what you will pay for a nice Class A motorhome.  Even a Class C can save you $100k or more and be easier to take boondocking.


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## Darkwind (Dec 2, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


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Yes, I know.  I like to go in style.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 2, 2018)

I have warned my wife that if she dies before me, I am selling the house, buying an RV and living with each of my three kids for 4 months out of the year. If they don't have room for me, I have an RV.


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## gipper (Dec 3, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


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RVs depreciate rapidly. So it makes sense to buy used. Many people buy RVs then seldom use them.  You can find ten year old RVs very lightly used, selling for a fraction of their cost new.


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## Wyatt earp (Dec 3, 2018)

deanrd said:


> Democrats and Republicans want different things.
> 
> Democrats want to help them.
> 
> Republicans want to point and laugh at them.




How do Lefty's help them by this?


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## WinterBorn (Dec 3, 2018)

Maxdeath said:


> bear513 said:
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Solar has come a long way for RVs.  Can't run A/C, but pretty much everything else can be taken care of.


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## Wyatt earp (Dec 3, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


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Can't run heat either..

Not those little ones 

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## WinterBorn (Dec 3, 2018)

Andylusion said:


> deanrd said:
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I guess there was a sub-topic about the poor and homeless segment of the people living in RVs.   

There are plenty of people living in RVs who are still productive members of society.


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## Windparadox (Dec 3, 2018)

`
Back in my 20's, I traveled out west with a couple in an RV. It was fun, exciting and a learning experience. However, the drawback is the person (people) you are traveling with. Privacy is almost non-existent. Arguments do break out that sometimes linger for weeks. Over, this is something I'd do only if I had to.
`


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## WinterBorn (Dec 3, 2018)

Windparadox said:


> `
> Back in my 20's, I traveled out west with a couple in an RV. It was fun, exciting and a learning experience. However, the drawback is the person (people) you are traveling with. Privacy is almost non-existent. Arguments do break out that sometimes linger for weeks. Over, this is something I'd do only if I had to.
> `



Yes, the person you travel with is important.  The space is limited and, as you said, privacy is rare.

A lot of full-time RVers travel alone or with a pet.  That seems easiest for some.  I am lucky to have someone I travel well with.

I could see traveling with a couple could be difficult pretty quick.


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## Maxdeath (Dec 3, 2018)

Darkwind said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> > *Is it because they want to, they lost their other home to repo, or they can’t afford anything else?*
> ...


First off depends on what state you live in. Most states you need nothing more then a standard drivers license. In Texas you do need a special license but it is still not a CDL. 

There are class a motor homes that can run three million. In the case of that particular Newmare you are possibly looking at a million or close to it. Keep in mind that an oil change on a class a will run you a hundred or more. Cheap tires will run you $600.00 a piece. 

There are more expenses involved then just buying the RV. Places to park, maintaining, replacing, fuel costs, taxes and license all contribute to cost. Keep in mind if you are retired you have less income then you did when working. Keep in mind also that they are not meant to be lived in in temperature extremes. For most that means moving South and North as seasons allow.

As Winterborn stated there are used that can be had for cheaper then new. Gipper is also correct that they depreciate very quickly. They are not like a house that can increase in value.

Basicly I am just saying that if you are interested in living full time in an RV make an informed decision. What may sound like a great idea may not be a fit for you. The life stile does not fit everyone. 

If you do want to make the leap then look at whatever you want to buy. I mean really look. Do not be enticed by glamor. Look at the construction. Look at how you would live in it. Is the shower tall enough? Can you comfortably use the toilet? Imagine yourself being inside for a day or two due to rain. Can you use the kitchen well? 
Next consider that for some what they think they want later on changes, so the first RV you buy might not be the one that you really want. 
Consider also what you will do when you are forced off the road. It happens to everyone. You get too old to comfortably drive, medical problems, the death of a spouse. What ever the reason, you need to have a plan in place. Will you park the RV and live in it in one spot? Will you sell the RV and buy a house? 

For me and mine it is a great life and I would not change it for anything. For others it seems crazy and a foreign concept. Some think it is what they want, they try it for a year or two then realize that it is not something they like.
We travel to an area then we see what is in the area. We do not rush, we are retired after all. We spent a month in and around Flagstaff Az. A few years ago. We spent two weeks in Brice Canyon. We some times stop for what we think will just be overnight but after talking with those in the campground we may stay longer to see sites we did not know about.
We have meet people from all walks of life. We usually talk with a large portion of those in the RV park and at least say hello. How many can say that they know or even talk to those that live a block away?


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## Maxdeath (Dec 3, 2018)

bear513 said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Maxdeath said:
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Not sure what you mean by running heat but most RV have a propane heater with a 12 volt fan that will heat the whole place. They run on the same 12 volt batteries as the lights. 
The A/c, tv, microwave and a few other things has to be 110 volt but the rest is all set up to run off batteries. If you place solar on the roof or the ground you can live in an RV until you run out of room in your holding tanks or run out of water. You may need to refill propane, depending on usage. Your holding tanks are tanks that hold waste water and fresh water. Once you ranks are full or you need fresh water you can dump them and fill up by getting a campground spot for one night.
 You can run water heater on propane, house heater on propane with the fan on battery, the refrigerator runs on propane with battery for controls, lights are battery.


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## Maxdeath (Dec 3, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> > deanrd said:
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You are correct. I know of people who work construction, do welding, build roads who live in RVs. One couple does web design. One woman does tech support for a software company.


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## Andylusion (Dec 3, 2018)

Maxdeath said:


> WinterBorn said:
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Absolutely.


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## danielpalos (Dec 3, 2018)

gipper said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > RV's may be a good choice for electric.  The long base is a potential battery storage capacity.
> ...


due to the weight or the range?


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## danielpalos (Dec 3, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > It could be as simple as "plugging in to an outdoor movie theatre outlet."
> ...


for a "gated community" that could have all the amenities necessary to stay for a "short time or a long time".

I am thinking they could include wireless and USB ports.

In any case, the convenience of a relatively convenient place to recharge could take as long as necessary.


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## danielpalos (Dec 3, 2018)

Maxdeath said:


> danielpalos said:
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> 
> > It could be as simple as "plugging in to an outdoor movie theatre outlet."
> ...


Optimized for RVs could include an entrance fee and "regular services included".   You don't actually need to see the large outdoor screen if broadband access is available.  RVs could "expand for the night?  A port and safe harbor for RVs.

Upgrading to the latest technologies available is alway a good idea, regardless.

There should be a market regardless and Home Depot cannot always accommodate everyone.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 3, 2018)

danielpalos said:


> WinterBorn said:
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Most RV parks have wireless.   The USB isn't necessary, since ac outlet plugs for USB charging are readily available and cheap.

But the expense of prepping the land is an issue.   To run water and power to all the spots, and do so underground, will not be cheap.  Convenience is great but the average RVer doesn't want to be stacked in like a drive-in would.  It would take much wider areas to be able to maneuver.


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## Maxdeath (Dec 3, 2018)

danielpalos said:


> gipper said:
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You are looking at a lot of weight and range. The longest I have seen on batteries is 350 miles. This was a car by the way. So increase weight to what an RV is and have no doubt that range might decrease. Most big RVs right now require a Diesel engine.


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## Maxdeath (Dec 3, 2018)

danielpalos said:


> Maxdeath said:
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> > danielpalos said:
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You would need to remove at least close to half the parking spaces just so RVs could maneuver and have room to open up. Just to run electric under ground is very expensive. If you run water and sewer then you are adding into the cost. The best you could hope to get would be someone stopping for a night. That kind of campground with electric, water and sewer you might get $25.00 or $30.00 a night. Going to take many years to get your investment back. A few people do use places like Walmart or Home Depot but it is usually just long enough to catch a little shut eye then back to driving.


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## danielpalos (Dec 3, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> danielpalos said:
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outdoor movie theatre sites are the candidates for this, "case study".


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## danielpalos (Dec 3, 2018)

Maxdeath said:


> danielpalos said:
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Should we borrow from the railroad sector and use "petrol electric", in the mean time?  Plug and play at the site would be wonderful.  

There is no reason why they could not also have fuel vending capability, onsite.


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## danielpalos (Dec 3, 2018)

Maxdeath said:


> danielpalos said:
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Depends on location, and other conditions. 

The amenities could be the draw.  

Let's pretend we want to explore this venture;

It could be the equivalent to a gated community and rest stop for RVs.  Vendors could setup shop and help with costs. 

What, in your opinion would make it worth a hypothetical, twenty-five dollar entrance free.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 3, 2018)

danielpalos said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > danielpalos said:
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It isn't a case study.  It is an investment.   Investors want a return on their investment.  The cost of running all the lines and pipes will be high.  You might end up with 20% to 25% of the number of parking spaces the drive-in originally had.   It would work for overnight stops, but not much more.  And unless it was well advertised for the RVers, and convenient for an easy stop, there wouldn't be much traffic.

Hard to make back the original investment.  Plus you have to jump through a lot of hoops to be able to put in a dumping station.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 3, 2018)

danielpalos said:


> Maxdeath said:
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Yes, you could.  But there is no way you will be able to compete with truck stops on the price of diesel fuel.  So unless someone was running dangerously close to empty, I don't see that being much of a service people wanted.  Most places barely make a profit on fuel anyway.


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## Dan Stubbs (Dec 3, 2018)

longknife said:


> *Is it because they want to, they lost their other home to repo, or they can’t afford anything else?*
> 
> _A million Americans live full-time in RVs, according to the RV Industry Association. Some have to do it because they can’t afford other options, but many do it by choice. Last year was a record for RV sales, according to the data firm Statistical Surveys. More than 10.5 million households own at least one RV, a jump from 2005 when 7.5 million households had RVs, according to RVIA._
> 
> ...


*I did it for four years and it was the best move I ever made.  I met more people from so many places.  Most were real nice, friendly, helpfull, and had a lot of info on where to go and what to do.  I became part of a Moving City.  Truck Stops, Rest areas Camping Sites, you meet everyone and meet new people many become life time friends.  So a Million on wheels become a part of life, but all things come to past.  Some quit because of Health, some just get road weary and loose interest but new ones take their place to discover America and it is worth every hour of it.*


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## WinterBorn (Dec 3, 2018)

danielpalos said:


> Maxdeath said:
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> 
> > danielpalos said:
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First of all, you would have to find an area that is not close to an existing campground.  Most state parks have them.  KOA is all over the place.

For just an overnight stop, the amenities that would be a draw would be showers and laundry facilities.  You'd have to make sure the showers were very secure.  One incident with a woman being attacked, or even scared, would end your venture.  Word gets around.   The laundry facility isn't going to be a moneymaker, but could be a draw.


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## Dan Stubbs (Dec 3, 2018)

Maxdeath said:


> Shrimpbox said:
> 
> 
> > I am not knocking anyone doing this and for those who are retiring, why give the state 30 grand in taxes  a year on your paid off home. But I do worry that the mobile lifestyle is not,conducive to putting down roots and developing communities. Take the hurricane. You folded up the awning and hauled ass probably not to come back any time soon. Where do you vote. How many taxes do you slide by while changing locations? Let me reiterate, I am not knocking anyone doing this but if enough people adopt the gypsy lifestyle for long enough it will become a disrupter
> ...


Property Tax, God I pay more than most.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 3, 2018)

Dan Stubbs said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> > *Is it because they want to, they lost their other home to repo, or they can’t afford anything else?*
> ...



I did it for a lot of years.  But mine was because of work.   It only takes a few weeks of staying in hotels to make an RV really appealing.  And I agree with Dan Stubbs where the community is concerned.  Even though I was not on the road like many were, I made friends with people and have stayed in contact with more than a few.  

The internet and smartphone have made the communities easier to stay with.   Texting, email and social media has made it possible to stay in contact with people all over the country.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 3, 2018)

danielpalos said:


> It could be as simple as "plugging in to an outdoor movie theatre outlet."



Another problem with the plan is based on the behavior of most RVers.   Emptying the black water tank is one of the least favorite parts of RVing.  So when most people pay for an RV park spot, they use the showers and toilets at the park.   Building, maintaining and cleaning those is expensive.

Also, many of the menial tasks in a standard RV park are done by Camp Hosts.  Most are paid a small salary or hourly wage, but nothing to get excited about.   They typically get a free spot for their RV, which makes the job worthwhile.   The ones I have talked to work 3 days on, 4 days off.  So they also get to enjoy whatever outdoor activities the park has to offer.   A former drive-in wouldn't have much to offer.

And there would be no way to show movies.    First of all, RVers have a variety of electronic entertainment available.   From internet to satellite tv, they can watch plenty of movies.  Plus, it is easy to line up passenger cars one behind the other.   But a 10 or 12 foot tall motorhome?  YOu block everyone behind you.


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## longknife (Dec 3, 2018)

Andylusion said:


> deanrd said:
> 
> 
> > Democrats and Republicans want different things.
> ...


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## longknife (Dec 3, 2018)

*Vegas has dozens of RV parks that are at least half full year round, filling up in the Winter months. *


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## Darkwind (Dec 3, 2018)

gipper said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > Darkwind said:
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People who buy RV's and don't use them or don't rent them when they are not using them, are fools.


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## gipper (Dec 3, 2018)

Darkwind said:


> gipper said:
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> > WinterBorn said:
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Maybe but it is quite common.


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## Darkwind (Dec 3, 2018)

Maxdeath said:


> Darkwind said:
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> > longknife said:
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I'm not sure why you or anyone would think that I would not make an informed decision.  I am aware of the the other expenses associated with living in an RV and traveling.  The video I posted is an example of how luxurious RV's can be and that one can, if they chose, live in style.  I would think that it would be obvious that if you could afford to shell out upwards of 1/2 to a full million dollars for an RV, the others expenses would not be any difficulty.


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## Darkwind (Dec 3, 2018)

gipper said:


> Darkwind said:
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> > gipper said:
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Yes, I'm sure it is.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 3, 2018)

Darkwind said:


> gipper said:
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> > WinterBorn said:
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Eh, they buy an expensive toy.  Whether they use it or not is up to them.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 3, 2018)

Darkwind said:


> Maxdeath said:
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> > Darkwind said:
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The other expenses probably would not be a problem.

I just don't see spending $500k to $1 million, when I can enjoy life on the road just as well for far less.   The highest priced RV we have looked at is less than $200k.   It is a Class C.   Plenty of room and luxury.    As far as "style", I guess it depends on whether that is for you or so others will see.


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## Maxdeath (Dec 3, 2018)

Darkwind said:


> Maxdeath said:
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Sorry if I upset you in supplying a little information. I have seen a $750,000.00 coach that if you were over 5.5 feet using the toilet your knees would have hit the wall, six foot or over and you could never have sat down.


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## gipper (Dec 3, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Darkwind said:
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> > gipper said:
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Agreed. The great thing is many people who can’t afford an expensive RV new, can afford to buy it used.  So many RVs are so lightly used, they make for great bargains.  So, I am glad some new buyers infrequently use their RVs and then sell them.


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## Darkwind (Dec 3, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Darkwind said:
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> > gipper said:
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Doesn't change the fact that it makes them fools.


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## Darkwind (Dec 3, 2018)

Maxdeath said:


> Darkwind said:
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I'm not upset.  I posted a video as an example of what is out there in terms of RV'ing, not having made a statement that this was the only way in which you could comfortably RV, not even making a statement on its affordability or if it was the right type of investment.  

I just find it odd that the assumption is that I would go into this without being informed.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 3, 2018)

Darkwind said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > Darkwind said:
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Ok.  I don't judge someone for what they do unless it screws up someone's life.

They may use the RV once or twice a year and are happy with their investment.

What would you call someone who spend $1 million on an RV when an RV costing $250k would serve them just as well?


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## Maxdeath (Dec 3, 2018)

Darkwind said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > Darkwind said:
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Perhaps. But people are still allowed to make mistakes. I think those spending half a million or more on a house that has more rooms then they use as foolish but I do not tell them how crazy I think it is. To each their own.


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## Darkwind (Dec 3, 2018)

Maxdeath said:


> Darkwind said:
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> > WinterBorn said:
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If they ask, I'll tell them exactly how foolish they are.

I actually looked into purchasing an RV and paying for it through rentals to vacationers.  There are even dealers out there that will allow you do do this.  You simply set aside those dates that you don't want the RV rented so that it is available to you when you want to use it.  The problem with that is that the wear and tear of renting is significant compared to just ownership, but you still basically get an RV for the cost of a down payment.

There are other ways you can tailor the rental agreements so that the RV is rented only the necessary number of times to make that years payments.  This ups the price range of RV's you can look into for yourself.  You'd have to be sure to rent it enough times to pay it off inside of 3 to 5 years in order to make it work, however.


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## Darkwind (Dec 3, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Darkwind said:
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Again, I'd call them foolish unless they managed to get a good bang for their buck.


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## Maxdeath (Dec 3, 2018)

Darkwind said:


> Maxdeath said:
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That may work but an awful lot of risk would come with that setup.
The first thing that comes to my mind is getting insurance that would cover that type of RV setup. There are only a handful of companies that handle fulltime RV insurance. As soon as you mention that you or a relative are not the only drivers they may not insure you.

The next is what happens if the person that rents it tears up the inside? Blows up your holding tanks? What happens if they total it? Since RVs depreciate quickly if totaled will insurance pay enough? Will they pay at all if you rented it out? Will they pay if whoever is driving is killed?

Do you trust who ever rents it to not leave it along side the road? Who pays for a blown tire? If a blown tire is it do to age and rot or is it do to road damage? 

Do you leave your things in the RV or do you pull everything out?


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## Darkwind (Dec 3, 2018)

Maxdeath said:


> Darkwind said:
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> > Maxdeath said:
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There are those insurance companies that cover the cost of renting your rig out to vacationers and it covers the cost of repairs and any damage they do to the interior.  As for road insurance, the renter is responsible for ensuring that they are covered for collision an property damage.  I think it also covers the cost of vehicle replacement if it gets totaled and the cost of abandonment.  Most insurance companies include a roadside service that includes towing.

As for leaving your belongings, no.  You would have to provision the RV every time you used it.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 3, 2018)

My girlfriend and I have rented an RV.  Not a bad cost for what we got.  We didn't take it anywhere.  They delivered it and set it up at the state park in Panama City FL.   Good time and didn't have to tow ours.  I believe I was between trucks and was using a company truck at work, so towing was an issue on vacation.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 4, 2018)

A bit off topic.  But just a handy little screen tent for those who like spending their time outside, but hate feeding the bugs.


We bought one of these a few months ago.  Our previous screen tent, a Coleman, was a pain in the ass to setup.   The first time we set this up we had it up in about a minute.  Take down is just as quick.   Getting it back in the bag take a bit more.  But great product.


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## danielpalos (Dec 4, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> danielpalos said:
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> > WinterBorn said:
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So, it depends on the size and location of the original, outdoor movie theatre which was already, automobile accessible from inception.

I am thinking an RV wash with dump capability could be included.

Power and communications should not be overly expensive; they put it in the first time and we have better technology now.

Most also had a restaurant.


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## danielpalos (Dec 4, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> danielpalos said:
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> 
> > Maxdeath said:
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A franchise could help with that.  Besides, convenience counts for a lot.  Knowing you can refuel before you leave is a great travel convenience.


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## danielpalos (Dec 4, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> danielpalos said:
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> 
> > Maxdeath said:
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We are only considering repurposing outdoor movie theatre spaces.


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## Maxdeath (Dec 4, 2018)

Darkwind said:


> Maxdeath said:
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I do have another question. If the coach breaks down from either operator error or just from normal wear and tear what happens? Does the company that is renting out your coach pay to have another one sent out to the renters? Do you pay? Do they get a refund? 

Have seen a coach that was driven into a ditch. It took $15,000.00 and six weeks of work. Imagine no one on vacation would sit around for six weeks.
Saw one that the a/c broke through the roof. Someone forgot some of the blocking. When they went across railroad tracks it was one bump too many. I believe the cost was $22,000 and a month of repairs.


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## danielpalos (Dec 4, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > It could be as simple as "plugging in to an outdoor movie theatre outlet."
> ...


Planning is everything.  An RV wash and dump station could be included and could be a "pay for service" outlet.  Oil changing and refueling could be an option.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 4, 2018)

danielpalos said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > danielpalos said:
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And I am telling you what a lot of RVers want.   Having spent years living in RV parks and talking with many, many RVers, I know something about the topic.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 4, 2018)

danielpalos said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > danielpalos said:
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So you charge them a flat fee to get in and park, but have extra charges for using the dump station?    That will be popular.

Having to install the storage tanks for fuel would be very expensive and require a LOT of redtape.   An RV wash isn't going to be cheap to install either.

So, in addition to buying the drive-in, you will have to pay to install underground powerlines, water lines, and other utilities, build or remodel existing bathroom facilities to include showers, install a large fuel tank to store diesel, build a wash station capable of handling vehicles that are 12+ feet tall and 45 feet long?  

And without an attraction, you will have somewhat less traffic than most RV parks, and almost all will be short-term?

Good luck finding an investor.


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## pismoe (Dec 4, 2018)

longknife said:


> *Is it because they want to, they lost their other home to repo, or they can’t afford anything else?*
> 
> _A million Americans live full-time in RVs, according to the RV Industry Association. Some have to do it because they can’t afford other options, but many do it by choice. Last year was a record for RV sales, according to the data firm Statistical Surveys. More than 10.5 million households own at least one RV, a jump from 2005 when 7.5 million households had RVs, according to RVIA._
> 
> ...


---------------------------------------------   i wouldn't do it with kids but a single male or a husband wife team is cool by me .    I knew 2 different guys .   One lives in a Greyhound Bus and makes good money as the Chief Engineer in a Hilton Hotel .  The other guy lives in a Box Truck parked in the parking lot of his ice skating rink place of employment .  He is KING of the rink , drives the ZAMBONI , keeps it and the ice in excellent condition .  Both single males about 65 years old now .    They have had this lifestyle for 30 years or more .    What the heck does a single male need an 8 hundred dollar a month [or more] apartment for ??  The ladies they  associate with all know what the deal is .  Too me , this is a good lifestyle .


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## WinterBorn (Dec 4, 2018)

danielpalos said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > danielpalos said:
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They put in power to the buildings, but not to the parking spots.  Plus, the difference between power a speak and providing 30amp and 50amp service is huge.   YOu would have to run conduit from a central location to every lot on the property.   Crews doing fiber optics and cable get $2 a foot for burying conduit.   That will be a considerable expense.   And you still have to put in water lines.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 4, 2018)

danielpalos said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > danielpalos said:
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Being accessible for an automobile, and being accessible for a 40' motorhome is two very different things.

My truck is 22 feet long.   Our camper is 33 feet long.  Having the maneuver a combined length of 55' is much different than parking the family car.

A 40' motorhome with a 2 door Jeep Wrangler in tow is closer to 60 feet.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 4, 2018)

You would be better off buying an empty or closed truck stop.   The facilities are closer to what you want.   But you would still have to put in power and water lines to each RV lot.


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## danielpalos (Dec 4, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
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> > WinterBorn said:
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A large outdoor movie theatre complex would be an ideal stop over.  They could broadcast movies along with provide internet access. 

It could make more commercial sense to cater to RVs in that manner.  There is no reason there could not be an RV wash that is flush capable.  

Being able to expand and recharge overnight is also very convenient.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 4, 2018)

danielpalos said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > danielpalos said:
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Other than it being almost impossible to make a profit, it would be great.   Provided you find someone willing to throw away a few hundred thousand dollars (at a minimum) and if you could find a closed drive-in close to main travel areas.

Know what is more convenient?   A WalMart parking lot for free.


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## Maxdeath (Dec 4, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> You would be better off buying an empty or closed truck stop.   The facilities are closer to what you want.   But you would still have to put in power and water lines to each RV lot.


The kid has an idea and no matter what someone that knows something about the subject will change his mind. We both know nothing will ever come of it.


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## danielpalos (Dec 4, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> danielpalos said:
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You simply don't understand the difference in market potential.

why go to camp grounds with wi-fi at all; WalMart is free.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 4, 2018)

danielpalos said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > danielpalos said:
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I understand the market potential.    I also understand the high costs to develop and the minimal profits it would generate.

The reason you go to WalMart is because it is free and they almost always have a traffic light at the entrance to their parking lot, which counts when you are 55 to 60+ feet long and have to turn left.

I also understand the specific market being discussed.  I am part of that market.   And you?   Have you had any dealings with RV camping?


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## bodecea (Dec 4, 2018)

longknife said:


> *Is it because they want to, they lost their other home to repo, or they can’t afford anything else?*
> 
> _A million Americans live full-time in RVs, according to the RV Industry Association. Some have to do it because they can’t afford other options, but many do it by choice. Last year was a record for RV sales, according to the data firm Statistical Surveys. More than 10.5 million households own at least one RV, a jump from 2005 when 7.5 million households had RVs, according to RVIA._
> 
> ...


We are getting ready to transition to RVing half of the year in the next 12 months.....we've had a 35 footer for a decade but because of my business we were not able to use it as much as we'd like....with retirement, we plan on that changing.


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## bodecea (Dec 4, 2018)

bear513 said:


> Maxdeath said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...


WalMart allows it.   Cops have no need to look the other way.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 4, 2018)

bodecea said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> > *Is it because they want to, they lost their other home to repo, or they can’t afford anything else?*
> ...



Enjoy!!!    I am looking forward to retiring and spending half our time on the road.


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## danielpalos (Dec 4, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...


Outdoor movie theatre complexes were automobile friendly, from inception.  shipping and receiving should require "tractor trailer" access.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 4, 2018)

danielpalos said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



Yes, they were automobile friendly.    Not many 55' automobiles though, now are there?

Sure a tractor trailer could get in to deliver goods.  But that would be during the day when there are no customers.   I went to a number of drive-ins back in the day.  I never saw enough snack bar business to warrant a tractor trailer delivery though.


It boils down to some very simple concepts.  

First, the expenses involved in converting it to an RV park.   As I said, the power and water being run to the individual lots will be expensive.  Plus the expense of adding fuel capability and a dump station will be high and will require a LOT of red tape.  Finding an investor willing to hand over hundreds of thousands of dollars for an enterprise that will have a low return is going to be impossible.

Second, the number of spots that were used for cars to park to watch the movie will be cut down to 1/4 because of the size of the new customers.

Third, unless the old drive-in is on a road that is frequently traveled by RV, no one will be there.  They won't go out of their way to stop over for one night.


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## danielpalos (Dec 4, 2018)

an outdoor movie theatre is at least as big as any HomeDepot parking lot for this venture.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 4, 2018)

danielpalos said:


> an outdoor movie theatre is at least as big as any HomeDepot parking lot for this venture.



Yes it is.   But the Home Depot parking lot is free.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 4, 2018)

longknife said:


> *Is it because they want to, they lost their other home to repo, or they can’t afford anything else?*
> 
> _A million Americans live full-time in RVs, according to the RV Industry Association. Some have to do it because they can’t afford other options, but many do it by choice. Last year was a record for RV sales, according to the data firm Statistical Surveys. More than 10.5 million households own at least one RV, a jump from 2005 when 7.5 million households had RVs, according to RVIA._
> 
> ...



Well, living in Arizona, my experience with RVers is pretty much limited to snowbirds, retired seniors who want to enjoy their freedom and travel, and also want to avoid the extremes of weather which can be so hard on their health.

For the life of me, I can't figure out why this article feels the need to try to conflate people who live in rather costly houses on wheels, and homeless people who live in their cars.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 4, 2018)

gallantwarrior said:


> I was a full-timer for 10 years.  It's a choice for some, but a necessity for others.  I've known others who lived in an RV full time until they found a place they wanted to spend the rest of their days.  It's a great way to travel and see what's out there.  With the money you save on rent/mortgage payments, you can usually afford a nice down payment on a home.



Well, after the expense of the RV itself.  They aren't exactly giving those suckers away as door prizes.


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## danielpalos (Dec 5, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > an outdoor movie theatre is at least as big as any HomeDepot parking lot for this venture.
> ...


free and less convenient.  Convenience is key; there is no such as an "Easy" store.

What would make it more convenient to go to an "RV park".


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## WinterBorn (Dec 5, 2018)

danielpalos said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



The biggest thing is location.   Since this is all hypothetical, that cannot be answered.

Unless you can offer the RVer something they need, the Home Depot or Walmart parking lot will win because it is free.   Being able to offer a place to plug in to 30 amp or 50amp service would be a draw.  But putting that into the drive-in lot will be VERY expensive.  And it would only give you about 1/4 the number of spaces that the drive-in had for movie goers.


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## danielpalos (Dec 6, 2018)

Outdoor theatres were automobile accessible from inception.  And, any business model should prove itself.

Putting in a Home Depot, cannot be any less expensive; and, they can afford to provide space for free.

An outdoor theatre space could be designed to be able to add more capacity from inception; and expanded as necessary.


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## Maxdeath (Dec 6, 2018)

danielpalos said:


> Outdoor theatres were automobile accessible from inception.  And, any business model should prove itself.
> 
> Putting in a Home Depot, cannot be any less expensive; and, they can afford to provide space for free.
> 
> An outdoor theatre space could be designed to be able to add more capacity from inception; and expanded as necessary.


Pay attention to what others have told you.

You say that putting in a Home Depot cannot be less expensive. They sell something besides RV spots. They have no utilities for RVs. They let people park for free because they may get bussiness from th RV and they get free word of mouth advertising.

You are talking about buying a place that was built with the idea of fitting automobiles in the closest possible space. RVs are larger n automobiles and require more room. You would need to remove the humps that were placed in each row. You would need to remove the posts that held the speakers. Most RVs expand to 12 feet wide how many autos are that wide. With no other work you could offer free parking and may get a few people. If you want to charge you would need to offer things like water, sewer, electric to each site. That would give you the bare minimum of money coming in. Perhaps $5.00 or $10.00 a night which would pay the bills for the utilities used by each site. To get higher you would need to offer other amenities such as a pool, wifi perhaps a putting green or even showers and laundry. 

The outdoor screen would just be a tear down as it would have no use. 
All of this would need to be on a highway that was of use to an RV person since they will not go out of their way on some back country road to get something that they can get at a normal campground.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 6, 2018)

danielpalos said:


> Outdoor theatres were automobile accessible from inception.  And, any business model should prove itself.
> 
> Putting in a Home Depot, cannot be any less expensive; and, they can afford to provide space for free.
> 
> An outdoor theatre space could be designed to be able to add more capacity from inception; and expanded as necessary.



Outdoor theaters were not designed to be accessible to 55 to 65 foot long rigs.

A business model that requires a very large capital investment that will have small returns will not garner support from investors.  As I have pointed out, repeatedly, the installation of the individual power and water lines will make the venture prohibitively expensive to start.

Putting in a Home Depot is different.  Home Depot makes a tidy profit from their business.  They are not trying to only serve the RVers.   They let them use the parking lot for free because they only stay overnight and will often spend a little money in the store.  Much like the reason WalMart allows RVs to park overnight.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 6, 2018)

Daniel, you would be better off trying to restart the drive-in movie craze as a retro sort of family entertainment.


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## WinterBorn (Dec 6, 2018)

Let me break it down for you a little clearer.

You will need to have at least 2 employees working the lot.   One at the gate and another cleaning and whatnot.  There are always things to be done.

That means 2 full-time employees and 2 part-time employees.   Pay 3 of them $8 and hour and 1 of them $10 an hour.   Your gross weekly payroll is $976.00.    That does not include payroll taxes ect.  And it also means you will not be offering them any employee benefits.

Now, for just basic lots with electricity and water, you charge $20 per RV.  And let's say you average 10 RVs staying each night. (I don't think you will get half that many, but we will be optimistic)  That means your gross weekly revenue is $1,400.    Which leaves you $424 a week to pay taxes, buy tools and materials, advertise ect ect ect.

Extend that out for a year, and you have $22k a year to pay for everything except what the employees make.  All payroll taxes, property taxes, ect.  All tools and cleaning supplies, all maintenance on equipment, and all groundskeeping equipment.   Plus, you have to pay for the electricity and water that the RVers used.

And you pay your investors back with what?

Plus, your highest paid employee is pulling in $20,800.00 a year.  Not exactly great money, so you won't get the best employees.   You will get young, inexperienced employees or you will get drunks and druggies.  Both of which need close supervision.  But there is no money for that.  So you would have to be there 7 days a week to make sure things went well.   With no salary.

And that is just to offer an overnight spot with water & power.   No showers.  No store.  No fuel.

Your business plan will not work.


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## danielpalos (Dec 7, 2018)

Maxdeath said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Outdoor theatres were automobile accessible from inception.  And, any business model should prove itself.
> ...


We have more advanced software to help with that.  In my opinion, the most useful services should be included; 

A full service restaurant and public toilets and showers.  Including an RV wash and "tank dump" would make it worth it for most.  Along with "power and internet" to the RV.  

Modern technology could enable the use of "retractable connections".


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## WinterBorn (Dec 7, 2018)

danielpalos said:


> Maxdeath said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



You simply refuse to admit you are wrong, don't you?

You would have advanced software to help with what?  That quote is unclear.  Of course, the chances of you answering my question are slim.

A full service restaurant?   To serve 10 or 12 RVers a night?    RV wash?   So more employees?  Despite what my post above showed?   And a dump station?  With all the red-tape to put it in and extra costs?

What is a "retractable connection"?



All of this use of the latest technology will cost more.   How will you pay for it?


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## WinterBorn (Jun 22, 2019)

I posted this yesterday, but the glitch lost it.


Bob Wells is one of the "leaders" in the nomad lifestyle.   He talks here about why he lives on the road.

I like one comment made by a family living in a schoolie.   "This is a lifestyle choice, not a consequence"


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## sparky (Jun 22, 2019)

Makes me miss my youthful vagrant days kickin' round the country....~S~


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## WinterBorn (Aug 14, 2019)

This is a very good video explaining the full time RVer reasoning.

Bob Wells interviewing a woman who has been living in her RV for 5 years.


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## Papageorgio (Aug 16, 2019)

longknife said:


> *Is it because they want to, they lost their other home to repo, or they can’t afford anything else?*
> 
> _A million Americans live full-time in RVs, according to the RV Industry Association. Some have to do it because they can’t afford other options, but many do it by choice. Last year was a record for RV sales, according to the data firm Statistical Surveys. More than 10.5 million households own at least one RV, a jump from 2005 when 7.5 million households had RVs, according to RVIA._
> 
> ...



My parents traveled all over the United States for 20 years after retirement, their choice. My wife and I are talking about doing the same. To me, it would be a great way to retire.


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## WinterBorn (Aug 16, 2019)

Papageorgio said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> > *Is it because they want to, they lost their other home to repo, or they can’t afford anything else?*
> ...



My girlfriend and I are planning to do the same in 2 or 3 years.    It sounds like a great retirement!


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## WinterBorn (Aug 17, 2019)

Like most things, it is more complicated than you see at first glance.

There are several different types of full-time RVers.

There are those who get a fairly large, modern RV and travel/live in it.    They tend to be more affluent and usually couples.  This accounts for the bulk of the Class A full timers and 5th Wheelers.

There is a subsest of the full time RVers who live in Class B or converted vans.   Much less space, but much cheaper to run and easier to navigate.  One common thread I have seen in van life RVer's videos and writings is the need to get rid of a lot of stuff.   When you have such limited space, they find ways to utilize space.  But getting rid of a lot of their "junk" is key.


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## iamwhatiseem (Aug 17, 2019)

I know of three people who stay in their RV Fri evening - Monday Morning, which is almost half their lives and most of their free time.
Two of them plan on living full time when they retire in a few years. 
A great choice for folks who want to live in different locations for whatever time they feel like it and go somewhere else.


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## WinterBorn (Aug 17, 2019)

iamwhatiseem said:


> I know of three people who stay in their RV Fri evening - Monday Morning, which is almost half their lives and most of their free time.
> Two of them plan on living full time when they retire in a few years.
> A great choice for folks who want to live in different locations for whatever time they feel like it and go somewhere else.



I know 2 couples who are full-time RVers.   They have talked about the season migrations.  In the spring & summer they scatter all over North America.   But when it starts to get cooler they migrate to the desert southwest or to Florida, to enjoy the milder weather.


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## Votto (Aug 23, 2019)

gipper said:


> We full time in a luxury motorhome.  We love it.    We didn’t have to. We wanted to.
> 
> This is my home on wheels.



Damn.

How much did that set you back?

Pretty soon government will have to start taxing RV square living space if this continues.


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## gipper (Aug 24, 2019)

Votto said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > We full time in a luxury motorhome.  We love it.    We didn’t have to. We wanted to.
> ...


The coach is 12 years old.  We bought it about 2 years ago and paid a fraction of the cost new. RVs lose value very quickly. 

Those living in RVs is still a very small segment.  I doubt Uncle has any plans, but you never with those bastards.


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## gipper (Oct 12, 2019)

Washed, waxed, serviced and ready to roll south to sunny climes.


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## Maxdeath (Oct 12, 2019)

WinterBorn said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> > I know of three people who stay in their RV Fri evening - Monday Morning, which is almost half their lives and most of their free time.
> ...


We went south to Alvarado Mexico a few years ago. Southeast of Mexico City. On the coast. Went down with four other couples. Rent was $250 a month that included utilities. Got up into the 80s during the day. Prices were more then reasonable for anything we bought because there were not many Americans that stayed that far south.


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## gipper (Oct 12, 2019)

Maxdeath said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > iamwhatiseem said:
> ...


We know several people who caravan in RVs into Mexico for the winter. They stay in an rv park right on the Gulf of California southwest of Hermosillo. They love it. Very inexpensive, great food, and weather. Roads aren’t so good.


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## longknife (Oct 13, 2019)

gipper said:


> Washed, waxed, serviced and ready to roll south to sunny climes.
> View attachment 284214



Wow! That really looks awesome. I envy you. Bet it's really something inside.

Enjoy.


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