# Gas prices up, who's fault is it??



## Working Man (Jan 18, 2009)

Some say it is because of Israelis war with the Palestinians. Others say it is because of the speculators on Wall Street. 

If nobody really knows, then oil shouldn't be a traded commodity. For the fair market to work, I would think that transparency and reason need to be mandatory factors. With no reason, just speculation, their is no fairness.

Americans have still not learned their lesson from last summer as I see many of the gas guzzlers on the road again. 

One thing for sure, the new Honda Accords with the auto trans and four banger SUCK gas like a Chevy Suburban (honestly, the Accord could be worse) around town. Honda is lying when it comes to the economy of this model.


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## Zoom-boing (Jan 19, 2009)

Working Man said:


> Americans have still not learned their lesson from last summer as I see many of the gas guzzlers on the road again.



So we're suppose to just run out and buy a new car cause our 'gas guzzlers' guzzle gas?  Can you loan me $20,000?  I'll pay it back just as soon as Wallstreet pays back Uncle. Honest.


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## xsited1 (Jan 19, 2009)

Working Man said:


> Some say it is because of Israelis war with the Palestinians. Others say it is because of the speculators on Wall Street.
> 
> ...



Here's something to look forward to:

*Goldman Sees &#8216;Swift, Violent&#8217; Oil Rally Later in Year *

Bloomberg.com: Latin America


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## Andrew2382 (Jan 19, 2009)

If only this country had ample oil to support ourselves for the next 200 years....whatever shall we do


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## Paulie (Jan 19, 2009)

Gas is only up slightly from its low a while back.  It has to do with the holiday driving season demand, and the OPEC production cuts.  It will most likely come up a bit higher when the summer season begins, but we won't be seeing it as high as it was last year, unless the bottom drops out from the Dollar.

If by the end of the year, oil is up a lot higher, it will probably be because of speculation.  I know I'm buying right now myself.  $30 oil is a huge buy opportunity.  We will eventually see prices over $100, when inflation starts to rise.  We have a while to go before that though.  When the banks start loosening up and lending, oil will start coming back up.


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## auditor0007 (Jan 21, 2009)

Andrew2382 said:


> If only this country had ample oil to support ourselves for the next 200 years....whatever shall we do



We may well have that oil.  Actually, we do have that oil.  Now it is just a matter of figuring out how to extract it from the rock that holds it.  The Green River Basin holds approximatley 1.5 trillion barrels of oil in the form of oil shale.  Currently, Shell and four other companies are working on new forms of extraction.

While these new methods are complex, there is a very good chance that at least one will prove successful.  Right now the money is on Shell's method.  Unfortunatlely, even if any of these new processes is successful, it will be twenty years before we see full scale production from this source, and that is if we can get past the environmentalists who will certainly try to limit the amount of production.

No matter what, even if we do see full scale production, we need to continue to concentrate on alternate sources, because eventually, the oil is going to run out.


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## RetiredGySgt (Jan 21, 2009)

A barrel of oil has been dropping again in price, yet no changes at the gas pump. As I recall oil is down to 34 dollars a barrel again.


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## sitarro (Jan 21, 2009)

It's Obama's fault.


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## Paulie (Jan 21, 2009)

RetiredGySgt said:


> A barrel of oil has been dropping again in price, yet no changes at the gas pump. As I recall oil is down to 34 dollars a barrel again.



There's been changes where I live.  The pump price drops slower in relation to oil drops, whereas when oil rises, the pump price moves almost in lockstep.

Oil is at $40 right now, and your pump price is probably reflecting the futures price of oil which is not $34.  Pump prices will come down again, once the holiday demand and production cuts are priced out of the futures.  But be prepared for a rise again once the summer demand comes into play.  $2.00 gasoline at the most for this year's high, which will decline in the fall.

Once the banks release their reserves though, all bets are off.


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## MalibuMan (Jan 22, 2009)

Come on people! It's Bush's fault!


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## michiganFats (Jan 22, 2009)

Don't forget the price difference between the summer formula fuel and the winter formula fuel. I'm not sure about rural areas, but many urban areas are required by the EPA to use the summer formula during warmer months. In my area, that results in about a $1/gallon price increase every spring that has nothing to do with market forces.


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## Paulie (Jan 22, 2009)

michiganFats said:


> Don't forget the price difference between the summer formula fuel and the winter formula fuel. I'm not sure about rural areas, but many urban areas are required by the EPA to use the summer formula during warmer months. In my area, that results in about a $1/gallon price increase every spring that has nothing to do with market forces.



I'd be interested in seeing some data that justifies raising the price of gas a whole $1/gal just because of a different seasonal blend.

Even octanes are only seperated by about 10-15 cents each.

Sounds like you're getting ripped off.  The higher price in the summer is typically because demand increases, not because of blend differences.


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## michiganFats (Jan 22, 2009)

Paulie, I am getting ripped off. I admit that I can't find one solid figure to quote regarding the EPA mandate. The only reason I have the $1/gallon figure is because I wrote to the Secretary of State in my state, and that's the figure I got back from her office. According to the letter her office sent me, I am paying 38 cents per gallon in county road tax, I paid 17 cents per gallon for my car in federal tax, my commercial vehicle road tax was triple that, and the state tax at the time was 28 cents per gallon. She also stated that the EPA regulations resulted in an average increase statewide in urban area of $1 per gallon when the summer formula was in distribution. And every year when the price does in fact go up $1/gallon over a 7 day period, the news runs stories about the greedy oil companies.


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## elvis (Jan 23, 2009)

The price is market driven, in my opinion.  Having said that, if the saudis cut production, that *affects the market because supply is cut.*


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## Shadow (Jan 24, 2009)

sitarro said:


> It's Obama's fault.



Exactly.."He won"...just ask him and he will tell ya so..


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## editec (Jan 24, 2009)

Has production been cut back?

The price of oil (it was down to $34 just a week or so ago) WAS TOO LOW...even for this feeble economy.

I expect, assuming the economy starts recovering, that the price of oil will rise to take advantage of the increasing demand.

Underpinning all the shinanigans (which I recognize do exist) there STILL IS the validity that the the laws of supply/demand impose on pricing.


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## Skeptik (Jan 24, 2009)

auditor0007 said:


> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> > If only this country had ample oil to support ourselves for the next 200 years....whatever shall we do
> ...



Yes, we have oil that can be extracted, but not economically at $40 a barrel.  If oil goes back up to $150, then extraction could proceed, but who is going to be willing to invest in it without some assurance that the price isn't going back down?  

Alternative energy is the same problem.  It won't be economical if oil remains cheap.  It is only when the price goes through the roof that anyone is serious about either alternative energy or more oil exploitation.  

It would be much better to be pro active and start both alternative energy and exploitation of domestic reserves before the next crisis hits, but, of course, we won't


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## cunclusion (Jan 26, 2009)

The price is because of the future effect of the Saudi and OPEC supply cut. When these are taken into full account with the way the market currently is as well as the value of the dollar in the future will be. Inflation is inevitable the gas price is taking this into account. But I wonder about some states that cut or removed their gas taxes during the peak price. Some may have reimplemented the taxes back on gas to shore up falling tax revenue.


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## editec (Jan 26, 2009)

I'm against cutting taxes on fuel.

It pains me to pay it, of course,  but I know that it is going to rebuilding the roads and bridges that I am using when I drive, so it is, in my world view, a reasonable *user tax.*


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## cunclusion (Jan 26, 2009)

Some states did cut or repeal the tax when gas prices got real high. But now that the prices are going back down some are reinstituting the tax. It makes sense even in a economic downturn.


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## Skeptik (Jan 26, 2009)

editec said:


> I'm against cutting taxes on fuel.
> 
> It pains me to pay it, of course,  but I know that it is going to rebuilding the roads and bridges that I am using when I drive, so it is, in my world view, a reasonable *user tax.*



Yes, it is a reasonable and necessary user fee.  As such, it should not go into the general fund, but be placed in a separate trust account, to be used for the construction and maintenance of transportation infrastructure only.  

Of course, the government isn't much into trust accounts, but does like the general fund, which has become much like a black hole, sucking in everything that comes close, and not letting anything escape.


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## sealybobo (Jan 26, 2009)

Working Man said:


> Some say it is because of Israelis war with the Palestinians. Others say it is because of the speculators on Wall Street.
> 
> If nobody really knows, then oil shouldn't be a traded commodity. For the fair market to work, I would think that transparency and reason need to be mandatory factors. With no reason, just speculation, their is no fairness.
> 
> ...



The price of a barrel of oil has now dropped by more than $100 from its July high. A gallon of gasoline is now about $2 less than it was last summer; you played a role in making that happen. Your efforts  e-mails, letters and calls  to engage Congress in addressing the role that financial speculators had in the price shock, and the resulting groundswell of congressional interest in the gaps in regulating speculation, were a major force behind investors abandoning the speculation market, and the plummeting price of oil. We thought you would be interested in seeing a recent CBS 60 Minutes segment that confirms the role of unchecked oil speculation in the oil price run-up.

The Price Of Oil Video - CBSNews.com


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## Andrew2382 (Jan 26, 2009)

yes it was the e-mails and letters that did it...not the fact that driving went down and suply of gas went up...that had nothing to do with it.

Shit, if all those e-mails did it then why aren't we drilling because over 75% of Americans want drilling here in the states.


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## sealybobo (Jan 26, 2009)

Andrew2382 said:


> yes it was the e-mails and letters that did it...not the fact that driving went down and suply of gas went up...that had nothing to do with it.
> 
> Shit, if all those e-mails did it then why aren't we drilling because over 75% of Americans want drilling here in the states.



1.  No doubt you will not watch the 60 minute piece.  Keep your head buried in the sand fool.

2.  Sure supply and demand had to do....with about 10 cents a gallon difference.  How did they come up with the other $2 a gallon extra you god damn fool?  

3.  Of course the oil barons will have a very slick reason why gas was $4.  Most of us won't buy their lies, but enough of us (you) will that they'll get away with it.

4.  The Democrats are going to look into this and determine how much was S&D and how much was gouging.  Will you accept their findings?  Of course not.  

It was all S&D.  And the bad economy is part the dems fault and part the gop's fault.  Everyone has to share the blame.  People who say these things don't know what happened to them the last 8 years.


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## Andrew2382 (Jan 26, 2009)

sealybobo said:


> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> > yes it was the e-mails and letters that did it...not the fact that driving went down and suply of gas went up...that had nothing to do with it.
> ...





1-  rofl...60 minutes...are you fucking kidding me.  THat left wing liberal show...I mean I know whya  hack like you watches it...tell you what...I'll link you a video from Hannity I saw...you should watch it!  ITS TOTALLY FAIR

2- Listen asshole, let me give you a brief 101 on how speculation works.  Lets say you are a speculator...at that time..Gas use was very high, and the main suppliers...Saudi Arabia have been pumping more or less the same amount of oil for the past 25 years....your job is to SPECULATE the price of it in the future...you know we will be using more oil...Europe...and then China and India was having a HUGE DEMAND for it.  So what would you speculate on?  Price going up.  Especially since there is no future supply about to be pumped cause the United States who has the biggest reserve in the fucking world refused to pump it.  Then, econopmys tanked, people started driving less and less, airlines cut routes...supply of the fuel we had gradually increased...when we have a bigger supply guess what happens.....OMG THE DEMAND DECREASES and speculators suggest the price will go down at this rate.  Wow, how difficult is that to comprehend

3- Yes, nobody but me buys the lies...explain to me again why over 75% of the country was a go for drilling and their "representatives" shot them down

4- Of course not...I beleive anything the democratic party says as far as I could throw Teddy Kennedy....tell you what when the repubs do thier study as well well you believe it?

I didn't think so...I believe what I actually see happens.....The country started using less and less oil and the price dropped, the economy tanking also made it drop.

Now once it rebounds it will go back up...which is why we still need to drill our own domestic supply


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## sealybobo (Jan 26, 2009)

Andrew2382 said:


> sealybobo said:
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> > Andrew2382 said:
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1.  I don't watch 60 minutes.  Haven't in years.  But you calling it a left wing media show is a fucking joke.  How come they never ran a piece on impeaching Bush?  Or how come they didn't tell us that he was lying us into a war?  I'm so sick of you faggots coming back with that "60 minutes, air america, msnbc, cnn, npr are just left wing blabal.  

Hey, I noticed something the other day.  My liberal show Rachel Maddow on MSNBC has Pat Buchanan on.  And she lets that fat fuck talk as much as he wants.  How come O'Reilly & Hannity and Rush are the only fat fucks who ever talk on their shows?  

So I don't know what you consider "liberal", but they aren't as "liberal" as your "conservative" spin propoganda shows are.  Glen Beck coming soon to Fox.   

2.  That's the Oil companies justification for oil prices going to $4.  They are flat out wrong/false/lying/only telling half the story.  We all know this.  That's why they won't go back to $4.  We'll fucking socialize the industry if they try it under the Dems watch.  So all the $ you spent on gas was the GOP taking any tax breaks you got right away from you dip shit. 

3.  Of course at $4 a gallon people wanted to drill.  The oil company can convince you to snuff out your own grandmother if it'll save you a buck.  

4.  We don't use that much less gas today than we did last year kid.  

And let me teach you about supply and demand/free markets.  The oil companies can/should charge you whatever they can get away with charging  you.  Does this sound familiar?  This is what you Republican morons were telling us when gas was going up to $4.  So you admit that it doesn't have to be S&D.  They could just have decided that they wanted to see how much they could charge for gas.  Nothing wrong with that in a free market, right?  

So you are claiming that they would never do that.  

Even though their profits went through the roof?  

Do you even hear yourself?  If it was only S&D, their profits would have stayed the same.  

Clearly you are wrong.  Speculation and gouging is why gas went to $4.  That an a unregulated industry gone wild.


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## Meister (Feb 2, 2009)

Geeze, Sealy....take a chill pill, and watch another Keith Oberman program.  I know he will calm you down with his unbias look at politics.
PS....could you tell me where you saw where gouging was going on, except for a very few exceptions at  individual gas stations,?  Was it at the corporate level????  I really am interested in reading the info you forward along.....unless it's just a uneducated opinion.


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## Charles_Main (Feb 10, 2009)

Working Man said:


> Some say it is because of Israelis war with the Palestinians. Others say it is because of the speculators on Wall Street.
> 
> If nobody really knows, then oil shouldn't be a traded commodity. For the fair market to work, I would think that transparency and reason need to be mandatory factors. With no reason, just speculation, their is no fairness.
> 
> ...



Your problem is you are looking for one reason, when in fact there are many many factors that play into it. If you are going to sit around looking for one specific reason, you are never going to find it. 

At it's most basic level it was the law of supply and Demand, Price went up, demand went down. the price dropped, and people used more and the price went back up some. Not to mention we are at the hight of the winter heating season.


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## Wolf (Feb 11, 2009)

editec said:


> Has production been cut back?
> 
> The price of oil (it was down to $34 just a week or so ago) WAS TOO LOW...even for this feeble economy.
> 
> ...



Price is up due to a possible strike in some oil refinery in TX..  or some other concoction that the corporate board members dreamed up at Exxon, Shell.. or wherever..  

Plus the execs must think of the shareholders... years of record profits might be followed by a drop in profits since the price of a barrell is under $50 for the last several weeks..  cant have that in Standard Oil land...  

I also heard a butterly farted in the wind.. somewhere..  so that migh cause another drop in oil production to get the price of a barrel up where the executives and shareholders want it be...   ohh sorry..   should be...  

.. but it is outstanding how US drivers have cut their consumption in the last 12 -15 months to save whats left of the change in their wallet...  and help drive down the price..  

by the way.. who killed the electric car??

T Boone Pickens.. where you at??


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## Skull Pilot (Feb 11, 2009)

Working Man said:


> One thing for sure, the new Honda Accords with the auto trans and four banger SUCK gas like a Chevy Suburban (honestly, the Accord could be worse) around town. Honda is lying when it comes to the economy of this model.



maybe you should put some air in your tires


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 11, 2009)

Working Man said:


> Some say it is because of Israelis war with the Palestinians. Others say it is because of the speculators on Wall Street.
> 
> If nobody really knows, then oil shouldn't be a traded commodity. For the fair market to work, I would think that transparency and reason need to be mandatory factors. With no reason, just speculation, their is no fairness.
> 
> ...



Bush got blamed every time the price went up so guess what? Now we can blame Obama. It is Obama's fault using the logic of his staunchest supporters.


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## Wolf (Feb 11, 2009)

Skull Pilot said:


> Working Man said:
> 
> 
> > One thing for sure, the new Honda Accords with the auto trans and four banger SUCK gas like a Chevy Suburban (honestly, the Accord could be worse) around town. Honda is lying when it comes to the economy of this model.
> ...



Anybody in the car/tire industry and even the Nascar website knows that proper inflation of your tires can increase your MPG and save you money on gas and tire wear..   

The stunt with the McPalin tire guages/BO energy plan made the GOP look like the political attention whores and propaganda joke their party has become..

Ask anyone who rides a streetbike how important tire inflation is.. for a variety of reasons...


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## Meister (Feb 11, 2009)

Wolf said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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> > Working Man said:
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Wolf, what you say is true, but with all do respect, Obama came off like this was the answer...not to say that is what he meant, but that is the perception that was taken.


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## Skeptik (Feb 11, 2009)

Meister said:


> Wolf said:
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> > Skull Pilot said:
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That perception was taken by his opponents, expounded on at some length,  then repeated over and over until I thought I would puke.


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## Meister (Feb 11, 2009)

Skeptik said:


> Meister said:
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> > Wolf said:
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Go ahead and puke....with or without you puking, that was the perception.  Deal with that after you get done puking.


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## Skeptik (Feb 11, 2009)

Meister said:


> Skeptik said:
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> > Meister said:
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It was a manufactured perception, much like the perception that Barack Hussain Obama was a Muslim, or that he was the Anti Christ, or a whole lot of other nonsense that was repeated over and over.

Now excuse me for a moment....


AKKKKK!!!!  GAAAAAA!  HAAAA!  AIG....................

Ah, now I feel much better.


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## Meister (Feb 11, 2009)

Skeptik said:


> Meister said:
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  I know what you mean about manufactured perception.  The liberals were doing it to Bush over the last 8 years.


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## Wolf (Feb 12, 2009)

Meister said:


> Wolf said:
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> > Skull Pilot said:
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From what I recall BO stated that correct tire pressure would reduce our oil consumtion..  

I dont recall anyone saying it would eliminate our need for foreign oil all together..  either way correct tire pressure saves you $$...  and the whole episode was just a typical campaign stunt..


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## Meister (Feb 12, 2009)

Wolf said:


> Meister said:
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Wolf, like I said earlier, tire pressure does make a difference.  But, is it up to our government to tell us how to live our lives??  If I want the tire pressure lower, isn't that my God given right in America??  If not, where is it going to stop?  As far as I'm concerned the government has no right in this matter.  What they do have a right to do,. is protect the constitution...not rewrite it.


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## garyd (Feb 28, 2009)

Oil is up because the Saudis cut production moron. If world economies continue to plummet look for the price to fall yet again and then the Saudis willcut production again to try and stabilize the price.


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## Skeptik (Feb 28, 2009)

garyd said:


> Oil is up because the Saudis cut production moron. If world economies continue to plummet look for the price to fall yet again and then the Saudis willcut production again to try and stabilize the price.



Oil price is not up.



> After the roller coaster ride of 2008, the price of oil has stabilized in the early days of 2009 at around $40 a barrel after the OPEC cartel slashed its production to make up for lower oil demand. But as the global economy weakens, many analyst are forecasting prices could weaken even more in coming months.
> 
> Only a few months ago, oil prices peaked above $147 a barrel, a record that was reached in July, before tumbling in record time.



Oil prices have stabilized, they may well go down more, and calling someone names is juvenile and sophomoric.

Three facts you can count on.

Posted by Meister:


> Wolf, like I said earlier, tire pressure does make a difference. But, is it up to our government to tell us how to live our lives?? If I want the tire pressure lower, isn't that my God given right in America?? If not, where is it going to stop? As far as I'm concerned the government has no right in this matter. What they do have a right to do,. is protect the constitution...not rewrite it.



Yes, indeed you do.  You have a god given right to drive around on flat tires if you are so foolish as to do so.  No doubt the local Firestone dealership would like to see more people doing just that, as it would increase their business enormously.  

And, as obama Pointed out, driving on underinflated tires wastes gasoline.  Of course, you have a right to waste all of the gas you can afford to buy, so go right  ahead.


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## KittenKoder (Mar 1, 2009)

OP:

Bush ... no wait ... Exxon ... um maybe ... Clinton ... probably not ... so um ... the Middle East ... naw too far ... um ... perhaps John Wayne ... guess not ... maybe Freddy Kruger!

Really ... this issue is just too complicated to get into, but anyone can be blamed for it, what's a valid and effective solution ... that's what the question SHOULD be.


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## garyd (Mar 1, 2009)

A valid solution is multi faceted all the alternatives you can find and while you wait for the tech to come on line to make some of the more esoteric ones drill for all the oil you can right here at home. After all it isn't like gas and heating oil are the only things we get from petroleum.

The valid word there skeptik is 'around $40 dollars a barrel" means basically that it is fluctuating about that point up some days down others. It does not imply nor should it be taken to mean that it stays right on $40/barrel on any continuing basis. 

And yes keeping your tires properly inflated helps but it sure as hell isn't the be all and the end all as obama seemed to imply. You can do far more to improve your gas mileage by a variety of other means.


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## FactFinder (Mar 1, 2009)

*Gas prices up, who's fault is it?? *

Currently the refineries are choking production trying to lower supply. That was the 1st wave of price spiking. Now the speculators are trying to drive the price up on IEA data that for once in a long time showed a slight decrease in the expected increase of supply. 

There is currently so much oil stock that they are running out of places to put it. That still doesn't mean that the speculators won't try to hype anything to drive price up.


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## KittenKoder (Mar 1, 2009)

garyd said:


> A valid solution is multi faceted all the alternatives you can find and while you wait for the tech to come on line to make some of the more esoteric ones drill for all the oil you can right here at home. After all it isn't like gas and heating oil are the only things we get from petroleum.
> 
> The valid word there skeptik is 'around $40 dollars a barrel" means basically that it is fluctuating about that point up some days down others. It does not imply nor should it be taken to mean that it stays right on $40/barrel on any continuing basis.
> 
> And yes keeping your tires properly inflated helps but it sure as hell isn't the be all and the end all as obama seemed to imply. You can do far more to improve your gas mileage by a variety of other means.



Best way I found, walking and busing. I don't own a car, never have my whole life, the only gas I pay for is what the buses use. I've traveled a lot to, so don't try that excuse. It is possible to live without a car if you worry so much about the price of gas.

Oh, and I live in Downtown Seattle ... most things I need are nowhere near where I live so don't think it's all "just around the corner" because it's not.


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## sitarro (Mar 1, 2009)

Wolf said:


> editec said:
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> 
> > by the way.. who killed the electric car??
> ...


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## KittenKoder (Mar 1, 2009)

sitarro said:


> Wolf said:
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> 
> > by the way.. who killed the electric car??
> ...



Hell ... it wouldn't even make it on the highway.


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## garyd (Mar 2, 2009)

It's easy in down town try out in the Burbs. I can get to the downtown library hear in T-town in 15 minutes if I drive, If I take the Bus it takes an hour and a half. Rider ship on buses is usually about 50% capacity and most of the people on it don't work for a living.


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## KittenKoder (Mar 2, 2009)

garyd said:


> It's easy in down town try out in the Burbs. I can get to the downtown library hear in T-town in 15 minutes if I drive, If I take the Bus it takes an hour and a half. Rider ship on buses is usually about 50% capacity and most of the people on it don't work for a living.



I grew up in a rural area ... still didn't need a car, had a bike.

Spent a year only 50 miles from Durango Co, rode a bike to and from work every day, and we aren't talking flat roads either (hills so steep that anything larger than a sports car had to cut their speed in half).

Also, anyone who lived in downtown Seattle during the last 10 years knows, there's no shopping here unless you like to eat junk or pay a small fortune.


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## LiveUninhibited (Mar 3, 2009)

Whose fault? Depends on how far back you go. Since he's still alive, I'll blame Ralph Nader who acted as a spoiler for the 2000 election. If Gore had won, the trillionish that went into Iraq could have gone into alternative energy, causing demand for oil to be lower. Though then he would say he invented alternative energy, and THAT would be annoying... Now lets set aside our differences and set this right...


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## Terral (Mar 4, 2009)

Hi Working Man:

An Illegal Alien Foreign National has failed to steal your identity and JOB? :0) 



Working Man said:


> Some say it is because of Israelis war with the Palestinians. Others say it is because of the speculators on Wall Street.



Rising and falling oil and gas prices represent the best indicator for determining the timing of the coming Second Great Depression. Higher gas prices mean the market is predicting the coming Depression to be farther down the road, while lower prices predict the Economic Implosion to be at hand. The oil companies raise gas prices to bleed the U.S. consumer dry, because they can . . . Period . . . 



Working Man said:


> If nobody really knows, then oil shouldn't be a traded commodity. For the fair market to work, I would think that transparency and reason need to be mandatory factors. With no reason, just speculation, their is no fairness.



The price of a gallon of gasoline should be determined by the price to drill, process and send the gasoline to market and NOT what traders can bid the price up to on any given day. Oil companies should compete within each local market against every other oil company and the prices should be determined by THE MARKET. With 41,000 Lobbyists allowed to strut up and down the halls of Congress every damned day, then you should expect corruption to be par for the course. Right? :0) 



Working Man said:


> Americans have still not learned their lesson from last summer as I see many of the gas guzzlers on the road again.



There are millions of millionaires in the USA who will drive tanks around if that makes them happy . . .   



Working Man said:


> One thing for sure, the new Honda Accords with the auto trans and four banger SUCK gas like a Chevy Suburban (honestly, the Accord could be worse) around town. Honda is lying when it comes to the economy of this model.



Superior Vaporization Carburetors were invented back in 1936 (I cannot post links = Canadian inventor Charles Nelson Pogue in the 1930s . . .), but Big Oil and the automakers would rather you get 10 miles per gallon using inferior induction-type carbs; so Americans get exactly what they deserve . . . 

GL,

Terral


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## FactFinder (Mar 10, 2009)

The price of a gallon of gasoline should be determined by the price to drill, process and send the gasoline to market and NOT what traders can bid the price up to on any given day. Oil companies should compete within each local market against every other oil company and the prices should be determined by THE MARKET. With 41,000 Lobbyists allowed to strut up and down the halls of Congress every damned day, then you should expect corruption to be par for the course. Right? :0)

Absolutely. Instead we have the same folks who gave us the likes of derivatives manipulating the market.


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## Terral (Mar 10, 2009)

Hi FactFinder:



FactFinder said:


> Absolutely. Instead we have the same folks who gave us the likes of derivatives manipulating the market.



We agree. The link to that *Charles Nelson Progue Vaporization Carburetor story* is here if anybody is interested. My presentation on the new *Vapor-Plasma Integration Technology* is here if anyone wants to see how hydrocarbon/hydrogen integrated engines are built some 500 years or so in the future. 

The automakers are Big Oil Surrogates and would rather see you get 10 to 20 miles per gallon, instead of more than 100 miles per gallon using *Vaporization Technology* available since the mid 1930's. And now they want you to bail them out to boot. I have contacted General Motors and they would rather go under than use this far-superior technology, because Big Oil is holding a gun to their heads . . .  

BTW, if you want to see how the future generations use remote-control surgery systems that are really quite simple, then you can also get a taste of that in a free download here. This revolutionary technology was invented in the Press Medical Corporation Laboratories way back the mid 1990's, but the world is still not ready for these kinds of advances even today . . . 

PS. I started a new thread on this *Pressure-Sheath Technology* Topic here if anybody is interested. :0) 

GL,

Terral


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## Skeptik (Mar 10, 2009)

Terral said:


> Hi FactFinder:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is  this the Charles Nelson Progue Vaporization Carburetor you're talking about?


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## garyd (Mar 21, 2009)

That's exactly what I would expect from anyone who advertises the fact that he is a member of 9/11 liars club, skeptic.

Tell me something tarral does your tinfoil hat workbetter berore or after it oxidizes.


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## Terral (Mar 21, 2009)

Hi Gary:   
  Gary posted some one-liner drivel on my *Pressure-Sheath Technology* thread here and hopefully he will grow a pair and *accept my challenge* (*'not'* holding my breath) for a nice *911Truth Debate*. :0) 



garyd said:


> That's exactly what I would expect from anyone who advertises the fact that he is a member of 9/11 liars club, skeptic.


 
Sticks and stones, Gary. Please post the links to where everyone can find *your work* that defends *the Official Bush Administration Conspiracy Theory* saying that a band of these guys (Bearded Jihadist Radicals) pulled off the 9/11 attacks. :0) 



garyd said:


> Tell me something tarral does your tinfoil hat workbetter berore or after it oxidizes.


 
  This is *Gary&#8217;s solution* to the *9/11 Inside-job attacks* (pic).







The price of oil and gasoline are going up, because the *New World Order Elites* (links) are siphoning off consumer disposable/discretionary income/resources in preparation for leading the USA into *the coming 'Greatest Depression.'*

Listen to *Gerald Celente* from *TrendsResearch.com* (Website)!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nJ7LM3iyNg"]Gerald Celente Knows![/ame]

  GL, 

Terral


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## Skeptik (Mar 22, 2009)

garyd said:


> That's exactly what I would expect from anyone who advertises the fact that he is a member of 9/11 liars club, skeptic.
> 
> Tell me something tarral does your tinfoil hat workbetter berore or after it oxidizes.



So, you have no response to the link I provided?  Did you read it at all?

Does that mean that those of us who reject the silly and unproven 9/11 conspiracy theories are members of the "liars" club?

Who is it that needs that tinfoil hat again?


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## Indiana Oracle (Apr 2, 2009)

"Anyone who isn&#8217;t confused really doesn&#8217;t understand the situation." 
Edward Murrow, Journalist.

From my research, both parties and business have been in bed together forever - out of pure necessity. The dynamic just ebbs and flows like everything else.

I know an oil futures floor trader. They were indeed part of it, but as pointed out earlier they were only speculating on future prices. In that sense, they really did nothing unless one's perspective is that state control is considered the only alternative which can be correct all the time.


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## Skeptik (Apr 2, 2009)

Skeptik said:


> garyd said:
> 
> 
> > That's exactly what I would expect from anyone who advertises the fact that he is a member of 9/11 liars club, skeptic.
> ...


Oh, I see I misread gayrd's post.  Sorry about that.


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## sitarro (Apr 2, 2009)

Wolf said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > Wolf said:
> ...



That dumb ass clown Obama was using a year's worth of a typical driver's fuel every hour he flew around in that giant 757 during his 2 year campaign. Pathetic scheduling had him burning 10,000 gallons of fuel, round trip, to go to California then another 8,000 to fly to Florida and back the next day......... for what? To repeat the same lame ass speech over and over again? To go to a bowling alley and bowl a 37? His latest trip to Leno's show cost a half of a million dollars for Air Force 1 time alone, at least one C5A flew in advance to bring his limos so he could pull up onto the stage......... this arrogant punk is full of change, change for the worse. Before it was over, that trip no doubt cost us, the taxpayers, a million dollars for him to put his foot in his wide mouth with the Special Olympics comment. He's a dipshit and has no business telling his bosses(we the taxpayers) anything.

And Michelle looks like a skank.


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## Skeptik (Apr 2, 2009)

sitarro said:


> Wolf said:
> 
> 
> > Meister said:
> ...



Yes, meanwhile, McCain was stumping in a Prius in order to save gas.

And Michelle is hot, sorry.


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## InrXeyelArkvst (Apr 5, 2009)

Last week it was unidentified bombers in Sui and the Zain Koh district of Dera Bugti, the week before Transnistrian speparatists south of Chisnau, the week before that thieves in the Ugbodede community in Warri South West Local Government Area of Delta State and at the Makaraba-Utonana pipeline of Chevron Nigeria.























​


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## krotchdog (Apr 11, 2009)

> Superior Vaporization Carburetors were invented back in 1936 (I cannot post links = Canadian inventor Charles Nelson Pogue in the 1930s . . .), but Big Oil and the automakers would rather you get 10 miles per gallon using inferior induction-type carbs; so Americans get exactly what they deserve . . .



This is all true, except irrelevant. Look at the date, this information is from the last CENTURY!?!?!?!

The technology is being used and has been used since the 1980's, its called fuel injection. 

My full sized, four door, 4x4, V8 truck gets up to 80 mpl (miles passenger load). 

Even a Corvette gets much higher mileage than in the claim in the quote.


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