# The Israeli "Settlement" Myth And How Sinister It Is



## CMike

To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.

There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.

Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.

Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.

Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.

To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.


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## mudwhistle

Yet our media repeats this nonsense like it's gospel.


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## Jroc

In the minds of the leftist and the nutjobs at the U.N. Jews building homes is the biggest threat in the middle east right now.


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## georgephillip

What "settlements?"


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## Dogmaphobe

CMike said:


> To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.
> 
> There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.
> 
> Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.
> 
> Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.
> 
> Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.
> 
> To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.




Exactly.

There were ancient Jewish settlements in Gaza, predating the invention of Islam by centuries and the invention of the made up people called "Palestinian" by millennium. 

 This is how antisemitism works. Jews are discriminated against  by politically correct racists who make demands on them that they make on no other people.  It is a disease that has spread through so much of the left during the last 50 years due to the effects of relentlessly hateful Arab propaganda as to create a new paradigm. It is now by and large the left carrying the torch for antisemitism instead of the right.  For one right wing neo Nazi, there must be a hundred on the left equally virulent in their ethnic hatred.


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## CMike

georgephillip said:


> What "settlements?"


That's my point.

I don't accept the anti-Israel crowd calling a Jew in housing a settlement anywhere in the world.


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## CMike

Anti-Israel trigger words

Settlement Occupation Genocide Apartheid

It's all nonsense when applied to Israel, it's there for people who can't think to trigger emotions.


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## eots

CMike said:


> To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.
> 
> There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.
> 
> Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.
> 
> Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.
> 
> Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.
> 
> To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.


To me it sounds very Jew like saying Jews can live where ever they want


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## Dogmaphobe

CMike said:


> Anti-Israel trigger words
> 
> Settlement Occupation Genocide Apartheid
> 
> It's all nonsense when applied to Israel, it's there for people who can't think to trigger emotions.




Yep.  The evil "European colonists"  "stealing land" from the "rightful owners' who have lived there from time immemorial meme. 

 This propaganda has all been created by Arab supremacists with a specific intent -- to sway the western left to their supremacist cause by crafting jargon consistent with left-speak.  It is so obvious and so calculated that any intelligent person should be able to smell it from a mile away, but the problem here is that precious few people are intelligent. Most only recognize the buzz words and salivate appropriately.

 IMO, the internet has contributed greatly to this recent spread of antisemitism. Take one disgruntled, worthless individual lacking any real knowledge about the world, but seeking somebody else to blame, expose to various websites that hit all the proper buttons and voila!  The rush of antisemitic hatred rushes in to fill that void between their ears as they eat up all the ethnic hatred as if it was candy.  Of course, since the hatred is crafted as "left", and they see themselves as "left", they actually see their hatred as a virtue. 

 They are battling for the cause, you know, and all that matters is that he cause is gift wrapped with the correct wrapping paper. Who cares what's actually in the box, eh? They battle away to support the Arab cause and all that comes with it. They don't care about the honor killings, the female genital mutilations, the gay men hanging from rafters, the streets named after mass murderers, the genocidal ambitions of their elected leaders or anything else. All they care about is that all their little mates are just like them in their hatred, and that their hatred is actually some sort of virtue since they all believe it to be.


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## eots

Jroc said:


> In the minds of the leftist and the nutjobs at the U.N. Jews building homes is the biggest threat in the middle east right now.


the settlements are illegal under international law


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## EatMorChikin

Lefty stance = Joos bad, cult of terror peaceful.


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## Dogmaphobe

Jroc said:


> In the minds of the leftist and the nutjobs at the U.N. Jews building homes is the biggest threat in the middle east right now.




Be careful there, man.

You just never know when you will be accused of being being "Jew-like" .

 In the twisted minds of the antisemites, that is just about the worst thing a person can be!


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## eots

Zionist settlers, were built for ideological reasons, not security. Thus, the settlement enterprise can be seen to be a grave violation of international occupation law as it violates the very fundamental core of that law: there is no legitimacy to annexation through conquest.


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## eots

Dogmaphobe said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the minds of the leftist and the nutjobs at the U.N. Jews building homes is the biggest threat in the middle east right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful there, man.
> 
> You just never know when you will be accused of being being "Jew-like" .
> 
> In the twisted minds of the antisemites, that is just about the worst thing a person can be!
Click to expand...

invoking nazis, anti semitism the holcaust when criticized is also very.._Jew like 
_


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## Dogmaphobe

eots said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
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> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the minds of the leftist and the nutjobs at the U.N. Jews building homes is the biggest threat in the middle east right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful there, man.
> 
> You just never know when you will be accused of being being "Jew-like" .
> 
> In the twisted minds of the antisemites, that is just about the worst thing a person can be!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> invoking nazis, anti semitism the holcaust when criticized is also very.._Jew like
> _
Click to expand...





You don't really need to keep spamming youtube videos you found at your hate sites across multiple threads. 

 People with functioning intellects already recognize you for what you are.


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## eots

EatMorChikin said:


> Lefty stance = Joos bad, cult of terror peaceful.





Dogmaphobe said:


> eots said:
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> Dogmaphobe said:
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> Jroc said:
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> 
> 
> In the minds of the leftist and the nutjobs at the U.N. Jews building homes is the biggest threat in the middle east right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful there, man.
> 
> You just never know when you will be accused of being being "Jew-like" .
> 
> In the twisted minds of the antisemites, that is just about the worst thing a person can be!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> invoking nazis, anti semitism the holcaust when criticized is also very.._Jew like
> _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't really need to keep spamming youtube videos you found at your hate sites across multiple threads.
> 
> People with functioning intellects already recognize you for what you are.
Click to expand...


An _*ad hominem*_(Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for _*argumentum ad hominem*_, means responding to arguments by attacking a person's character, rather than to the content of their arguments


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## EatMorChikin

eots said:


> EatMorChikin said:
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> Lefty stance = Joos bad, cult of terror peaceful.
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> Dogmaphobe said:
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> eots said:
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> Dogmaphobe said:
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> Jroc said:
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> 
> 
> In the minds of the leftist and the nutjobs at the U.N. Jews building homes is the biggest threat in the middle east right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful there, man.
> 
> You just never know when you will be accused of being being "Jew-like" .
> 
> In the twisted minds of the antisemites, that is just about the worst thing a person can be!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> invoking nazis, anti semitism the holcaust when criticized is also very.._Jew like
> _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't really need to keep spamming youtube videos you found at your hate sites across multiple threads.
> 
> People with functioning intellects already recognize you for what you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An _*ad hominem*_(Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for _*argumentum ad hominem*_, means responding to arguments by attacking a person's character, rather than to the content of their arguments
Click to expand...


I attacked nobody's character. I attacked an insane ideal.


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## eots

EatMorChikin said:


> eots said:
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> EatMorChikin said:
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> Lefty stance = Joos bad, cult of terror peaceful.
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> Dogmaphobe said:
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> eots said:
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> Dogmaphobe said:
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> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the minds of the leftist and the nutjobs at the U.N. Jews building homes is the biggest threat in the middle east right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful there, man.
> 
> You just never know when you will be accused of being being "Jew-like" .
> 
> In the twisted minds of the antisemites, that is just about the worst thing a person can be!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> invoking nazis, anti semitism the holcaust when criticized is also very.._Jew like
> _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't really need to keep spamming youtube videos you found at your hate sites across multiple threads.
> 
> People with functioning intellects already recognize you for what you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An _*ad hominem*_(Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for _*argumentum ad hominem*_, means responding to arguments by attacking a person's character, rather than to the content of their arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I attacked nobody's character. I attacked an insane ideal.
Click to expand...

that insane Idea being what exactly ?


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## Dogmaphobe

eots said:


> An _*ad hominem*_(Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for _*argumentum ad hominem*_, means responding to arguments by attacking a person's character, rather than to the content of their arguments



spamming
posting useless crap on forums over and over

*Antisemitism* (also spelled Anti-Semitism or anti-semitism) is prejudice against, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews as a national, ethnic, religious or racial group.


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## EatMorChikin

eots said:


> EatMorChikin said:
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> eots said:
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> EatMorChikin said:
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> Lefty stance = Joos bad, cult of terror peaceful.
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> Dogmaphobe said:
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> eots said:
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> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful there, man.
> 
> You just never know when you will be accused of being being "Jew-like" .
> 
> In the twisted minds of the antisemites, that is just about the worst thing a person can be!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> invoking nazis, anti semitism the holcaust when criticized is also very.._Jew like
> _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't really need to keep spamming youtube videos you found at your hate sites across multiple threads.
> 
> People with functioning intellects already recognize you for what you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An _*ad hominem*_(Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for _*argumentum ad hominem*_, means responding to arguments by attacking a person's character, rather than to the content of their arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I attacked nobody's character. I attacked an insane ideal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that insane Idea being what exactly ?
Click to expand...


Ideal not idea. And that being to protect those cozy islam friends, while bashing Israel for just about everything they do.

Those same people believe, that armed patriots are more dangerous than islam too.


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## eots

Dogmaphobe said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> An _*ad hominem*_(Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for _*argumentum ad hominem*_, means responding to arguments by attacking a person's character, rather than to the content of their arguments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spamming
> posting useless crap on forums over and over
> 
> *Antisemitism* (also spelled Anti-Semitism or anti-semitism) is prejudice against, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews as a national, ethnic, religious or racial group.
Click to expand...

expecting Israel  follow International law and the Geneva Convention is anti-semetism ?


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## EatMorChikin

eots said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> An _*ad hominem*_(Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for _*argumentum ad hominem*_, means responding to arguments by attacking a person's character, rather than to the content of their arguments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spamming
> posting useless crap on forums over and over
> 
> *Antisemitism* (also spelled Anti-Semitism or anti-semitism) is prejudice against, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews as a national, ethnic, religious or racial group.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> expecting Israel  follow International law and the Geneva Convention is anti-semetism ?
Click to expand...


Cite the laws.


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## Dogmaphobe

eots said:


> expecting Israel  follow International law and the Geneva Convention is anti-semetism ?




Not necessarily, but vomiting crap about something being "Jew-like" sure is.


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## Penelope

EatMorChikin said:


> Lefty stance = Joos bad, cult of terror peaceful.



Jews are lefties so don't get you here, but Zionist is the cult of terrorism.


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## Dogmaphobe

CMike said:


> To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.



and true to form, it looks like like some of them are leaving no doubt.


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## Coyote

CMike said:


> To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.
> 
> There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.
> 
> Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.
> 
> Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.
> 
> Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.
> 
> To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.




I disagree (no surprise, right?) - and here's why.

Most of this "ethnic cleansing claim" revolves around Jeruselum's settlement practices and the objections, sometimes violent - towards Jews moving into that area.

Jeruselum has long had it's "Muslim Quarter" and current political settlement strategies have focused on erradicating it through a deliberate policy of purchasing property (often under deceptive alias') and then developing them for Jewish-only occupation.  Recently,  Netanyahu admitted, during his campaign, that this was a deliberate policy to prevent Bethlehem moving towards Jeruselum.

In addition, many Palestinians claim they are tricked into selling:
_
But Palestinians often say they were fooled into selling to Jews.


En-Natsheh's brother, Adel El-Khayat, lives in Ramallah now. It's a major Palestinian city nearby, but across a barrier and checkpoint from Jerusalem in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.


The brother insists he sold to a Palestinian middleman, who had told him the apartments would be used by Muslims visiting the Al-Aqsa mosque. Jerusalem's holiest Islamic site sits on the same hilltop as the Temple Mount revered by Jews.


"I didn't need the money," he said. "I wanted to offer my houses to the service of Al-Aqsa mosque."_​So - is it "ethnic cleansing" or is the housing market in Jeruselum simply one more unspoken front in the conflict designed to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state?

If it's "ethnic cleansing" then how do you label the actions of those developers who are building Jewish-only developments?

Israel also has policies that allow for segregated communities where "undesirables" can be kept out (undesirables being very open ended) and which allows communities to maintain a Jewish-only identity.  How many Palestinians or Arab Israeli's are allowed to live in the constantly expanding settlements?

Is it "anti-semitism"?  Ethnic cleansing?  Anger at the erosion of a Palestinian state?

Comparisons to "Nazi" are dishonest and cheap.  There is nothing even remotely Nazi-like in the actions on either side and using that labeling does nothing more than add fuel to the fire of a conflict where both sides have little liking or trust in the motivations of the other.

It's not surprising that we see cries of "anti-semitism" as opposed to a more rational look at the events playing out because that is a good distractor.


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## Billo_Really

EatMorChikin said:


> Cite the laws.


Here you go...



> * International humanitarian law (GC IV, art. 47)*
> _
> The main rules o f the law applicable in case of occupation state that:
> _
> 
> _*The occupant does not acquire sovereignty over the territory.*
> _
> _Occupation is only a temporary situation, and the rights of the occupant are limited to the extent of that period.
> _
> _The occupying power must respect the laws in force in the occupied territory, unless they constitute a threat to its security or an obstacle to the application of the international law of occupation.
> _
> _The occupying power must take measures to restore and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.
> _
> _To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the occupying power must ensure sufficient hygiene and public health standards, as well as the provision of food and medical care to the population under occupation.
> _
> _The population in occupied territory cannot be forced to enlist in the occupier's armed forces.
> _
> _*Collective or individual forcible transfers of population from and within the occupied territory are prohibited.*
> _
> _*Transfers of the civilian population of the occupying power into the occupied territory, regardless whether forcible or voluntary, are prohibited.*
> _
> _*Collective punishment is prohibited.*
> _
> _The taking of hostages is prohibited.
> _
> _Reprisals against protected persons or their property are prohibited.
> _
> _*The confiscation of private property by the occupant is prohibited.*
> _
> _The destruction or seizure of enemy property is prohibited, unless absolutely required by military necessity during the conduct of hostilities.
> _
> _Cultural property must be respected._


I bolded the ones Israel breaks the most.


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## Billo_Really

CMike said:


> To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.
> 
> There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.
> 
> Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.
> 
> Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.
> 
> Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.
> 
> To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.


This issue has nothing to do with Judaism.


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## Phoenall

eots said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> An _*ad hominem*_(Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for _*argumentum ad hominem*_, means responding to arguments by attacking a person's character, rather than to the content of their arguments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spamming
> posting useless crap on forums over and over
> 
> *Antisemitism* (also spelled Anti-Semitism or anti-semitism) is prejudice against, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews as a national, ethnic, religious or racial group.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> expecting Israel  follow International law and the Geneva Convention is anti-semetism ?
Click to expand...




 Lying that they don't, and using false laws is anti-Semitism.


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## Phoenall

Penelope said:


> EatMorChikin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lefty stance = Joos bad, cult of terror peaceful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews are lefties so don't get you here, but Zionist is the cult of terrorism.
Click to expand...





 That would be islam as shown by the number of terrorist incidents by muslims


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## eots

Dogmaphobe said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> expecting Israel  follow International law and the Geneva Convention is anti-semetism ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily, but vomiting crap about something being "Jew-like" sure is.
Click to expand...

really ? I would say not..when in context
of you saylng those that do not support the occupation are _Nazi like_ ..and considering the majority of Jews support the occupation so saying that is _Jew like_ ..while it is a broad statement  is somewhat accurate


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## eots

Phoenall said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> An _*ad hominem*_(Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for _*argumentum ad hominem*_, means responding to arguments by attacking a person's character, rather than to the content of their arguments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spamming
> posting useless crap on forums over and over
> 
> *Antisemitism* (also spelled Anti-Semitism or anti-semitism) is prejudice against, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews as a national, ethnic, religious or racial group.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> expecting Israel  follow International law and the Geneva Convention is anti-semetism ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lying that they don't, and using false laws is anti-Semitism.
Click to expand...

you are claiming Israel has not violated international law and anyone who says otherwise is anti-Semitic ?


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## CMike

Billo_Really said:


> EatMorChikin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cite the laws.
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * International humanitarian law (GC IV, art. 47)*
> _
> The main rules o f the law applicable in case of occupation state that:
> _
> 
> _*The occupant does not acquire sovereignty over the territory.*_
> _Occupation is only a temporary situation, and the rights of the occupant are limited to the extent of that period._
> _The occupying power must respect the laws in force in the occupied territory, unless they constitute a threat to its security or an obstacle to the application of the international law of occupation._
> _The occupying power must take measures to restore and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety._
> _To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the occupying power must ensure sufficient hygiene and public health standards, as well as the provision of food and medical care to the population under occupation._
> _The population in occupied territory cannot be forced to enlist in the occupier's armed forces._
> _*Collective or individual forcible transfers of population from and within the occupied territory are prohibited.*_
> _*Transfers of the civilian population of the occupying power into the occupied territory, regardless whether forcible or voluntary, are prohibited.*_
> _*Collective punishment is prohibited.*_
> _The taking of hostages is prohibited._
> _Reprisals against protected persons or their property are prohibited._
> _*The confiscation of private property by the occupant is prohibited.*_
> _The destruction or seizure of enemy property is prohibited, unless absolutely required by military necessity during the conduct of hostilities._
> _Cultural property must be respected._
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bolded the ones Israel breaks the most.
Click to expand...

That's why it's not "occupation". as you stated.

The land was actually lost by Jordan and Egypt. 

There never was an independent muslim palestinian state in those areas - ever.

There were however two former Jewish states in that area.

I'll get to the other nonsense you posted later.


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## Billo_Really

CMike said:


> That's why it's not "occupation". as you stated.
> 
> The land was actually lost by Jordan and Egypt.
> 
> There never was an independent muslim palestinian state in those areas - ever.
> 
> There were however two former Jewish states in that area.
> 
> I'll get to the other nonsense you posted later.


Over 100 UN resolutions and every single country on the planet, disagree with you.


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## eots

CMike said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EatMorChikin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cite the laws.
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * International humanitarian law (GC IV, art. 47)*
> _
> The main rules o f the law applicable in case of occupation state that:
> _
> 
> _*The occupant does not acquire sovereignty over the territory.*_
> _Occupation is only a temporary situation, and the rights of the occupant are limited to the extent of that period._
> _The occupying power must respect the laws in force in the occupied territory, unless they constitute a threat to its security or an obstacle to the application of the international law of occupation._
> _The occupying power must take measures to restore and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety._
> _To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the occupying power must ensure sufficient hygiene and public health standards, as well as the provision of food and medical care to the population under occupation._
> _The population in occupied territory cannot be forced to enlist in the occupier's armed forces._
> _*Collective or individual forcible transfers of population from and within the occupied territory are prohibited.*_
> _*Transfers of the civilian population of the occupying power into the occupied territory, regardless whether forcible or voluntary, are prohibited.*_
> _*Collective punishment is prohibited.*_
> _The taking of hostages is prohibited._
> _Reprisals against protected persons or their property are prohibited._
> _*The confiscation of private property by the occupant is prohibited.*_
> _The destruction or seizure of enemy property is prohibited, unless absolutely required by military necessity during the conduct of hostilities._
> _Cultural property must be respected._
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bolded the ones Israel breaks the most.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's why it's not "occupation". as you stated.
> 
> The land was actually lost by Jordan and Egypt.
> 
> There never was an independent muslim palestinian state in those areas - ever.
> 
> There were however two former Jewish states in that area.
> 
> I'll get to the other nonsense you posted later.
Click to expand...

Zionist settlers, were built for ideological reasons, not security. Thus, the settlement enterprise can be seen to be a grave violation of international occupation law as it violates the very fundamental core of that law: there is no legitimacy to annexation through conquest.


----------



## eots

*Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories – UN report*
30 September 2003 –
Israel is using excessive force in the occupied Palestinian territory (OPT), violating human rights in the name of counter-terrorism, and its building of a “separation wall” and expansion of settlements bear the hallmarks of annexation and illegal “conquest,” according to a United Nations human rights report released today.
United Nations News Centre - Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories UN report


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.
> 
> There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.
> 
> Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.
> 
> Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.
> 
> Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.
> 
> To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree (no surprise, right?) - and here's why.
> 
> Most of this "ethnic cleansing claim" revolves around Jeruselum's settlement practices and the objections, sometimes violent - towards Jews moving into that area.
> 
> Jeruselum has long had it's "Muslim Quarter" and current political settlement strategies have focused on erradicating it through a deliberate policy of purchasing property (often under deceptive alias') and then developing them for Jewish-only occupation.  Recently,  Netanyahu admitted, during his campaign, that this was a deliberate policy to prevent Bethlehem moving towards Jeruselum.
> 
> In addition, many Palestinians claim they are tricked into selling:
> _
> But Palestinians often say they were fooled into selling to Jews.
> 
> 
> En-Natsheh's brother, Adel El-Khayat, lives in Ramallah now. It's a major Palestinian city nearby, but across a barrier and checkpoint from Jerusalem in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.
> 
> 
> The brother insists he sold to a Palestinian middleman, who had told him the apartments would be used by Muslims visiting the Al-Aqsa mosque. Jerusalem's holiest Islamic site sits on the same hilltop as the Temple Mount revered by Jews.
> 
> 
> "I didn't need the money," he said. "I wanted to offer my houses to the service of Al-Aqsa mosque."_​So - is it "ethnic cleansing" or is the housing market in Jeruselum simply one more unspoken front in the conflict designed to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state?
> 
> If it's "ethnic cleansing" then how do you label the actions of those developers who are building Jewish-only developments?
> 
> Israel also has policies that allow for segregated communities where "undesirables" can be kept out (undesirables being very open ended) and which allows communities to maintain a Jewish-only identity.  How many Palestinians or Arab Israeli's are allowed to live in the constantly expanding settlements?
> 
> Is it "anti-semitism"?  Ethnic cleansing?  Anger at the erosion of a Palestinian state?
> 
> Comparisons to "Nazi" are dishonest and cheap.  There is nothing even remotely Nazi-like in the actions on either side and using that labeling does nothing more than add fuel to the fire of a conflict where both sides have little liking or trust in the motivations of the other.
> 
> It's not surprising that we see cries of "anti-semitism" as opposed to a more rational look at the events playing out because that is a good distractor.
Click to expand...






 As the link I post very often shows right up until 1948 the majority land owners in Jerusalem were Jews. Then the arab muslims invaded and forcibly evicted them from their homes. Now that Israel has reclaimed their holy city the Jews are moving back to their property and rebuilding.
 Look no further than the charters of the PLO, hamas and fatah for Jew free zones, apartheid and dhimmi laws.

 When did the arab muslims get this Palestine state as they have not fulfilled the requirements to be accepted as one. read their declaration of independence and see what they promised to do, and then promptly refused to carry it out.

 They are proven consummate liars and extremists that will not settle until the UN gives in and abolishes Israel and allows the arab muslims to kill the Jews.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> EatMorChikin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cite the laws.
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * International humanitarian law (GC IV, art. 47)*
> _
> The main rules o f the law applicable in case of occupation state that:
> _
> 
> _*The occupant does not acquire sovereignty over the territory.*_
> _Occupation is only a temporary situation, and the rights of the occupant are limited to the extent of that period._
> _The occupying power must respect the laws in force in the occupied territory, unless they constitute a threat to its security or an obstacle to the application of the international law of occupation._
> _The occupying power must take measures to restore and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety._
> _To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the occupying power must ensure sufficient hygiene and public health standards, as well as the provision of food and medical care to the population under occupation._
> _The population in occupied territory cannot be forced to enlist in the occupier's armed forces._
> _*Collective or individual forcible transfers of population from and within the occupied territory are prohibited.*_
> _*Transfers of the civilian population of the occupying power into the occupied territory, regardless whether forcible or voluntary, are prohibited.*_
> _*Collective punishment is prohibited.*_
> _The taking of hostages is prohibited._
> _Reprisals against protected persons or their property are prohibited._
> _*The confiscation of private property by the occupant is prohibited.*_
> _The destruction or seizure of enemy property is prohibited, unless absolutely required by military necessity during the conduct of hostilities._
> _Cultural property must be respected._
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bolded the ones Israel breaks the most.
Click to expand...





 What territory has Israel claimed sovereignty over ?

 What population have they forcibly transfered into or out of the territory

 What civilian population have they transferred into occupied territory that is not Israeli owned

 What collective punishment other than those proscribed in the Genva conventions have been carried out

 What private property has been confiscated

 No islamonazi sources either as they are biased


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.
> 
> There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.
> 
> Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.
> 
> Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.
> 
> Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.
> 
> To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> This issue has nothing to do with Judaism.
Click to expand...




 Are you sure, as the arab muslim charters say it is, they specifically say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way ) unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism. Do yopu know of any 165 year old Jews ?


----------



## eots

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.
> 
> There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.
> 
> Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.
> 
> Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.
> 
> Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.
> 
> To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree (no surprise, right?) - and here's why.
> 
> Most of this "ethnic cleansing claim" revolves around Jeruselum's settlement practices and the objections, sometimes violent - towards Jews moving into that area.
> 
> Jeruselum has long had it's "Muslim Quarter" and current political settlement strategies have focused on erradicating it through a deliberate policy of purchasing property (often under deceptive alias') and then developing them for Jewish-only occupation.  Recently,  Netanyahu admitted, during his campaign, that this was a deliberate policy to prevent Bethlehem moving towards Jeruselum.
> 
> In addition, many Palestinians claim they are tricked into selling:
> _
> But Palestinians often say they were fooled into selling to Jews.
> 
> 
> En-Natsheh's brother, Adel El-Khayat, lives in Ramallah now. It's a major Palestinian city nearby, but across a barrier and checkpoint from Jerusalem in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.
> 
> 
> The brother insists he sold to a Palestinian middleman, who had told him the apartments would be used by Muslims visiting the Al-Aqsa mosque. Jerusalem's holiest Islamic site sits on the same hilltop as the Temple Mount revered by Jews.
> 
> 
> "I didn't need the money," he said. "I wanted to offer my houses to the service of Al-Aqsa mosque."_​So - is it "ethnic cleansing" or is the housing market in Jeruselum simply one more unspoken front in the conflict designed to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state?
> 
> If it's "ethnic cleansing" then how do you label the actions of those developers who are building Jewish-only developments?
> 
> Israel also has policies that allow for segregated communities where "undesirables" can be kept out (undesirables being very open ended) and which allows communities to maintain a Jewish-only identity.  How many Palestinians or Arab Israeli's are allowed to live in the constantly expanding settlements?
> 
> Is it "anti-semitism"?  Ethnic cleansing?  Anger at the erosion of a Palestinian state?
> 
> Comparisons to "Nazi" are dishonest and cheap.  There is nothing even remotely Nazi-like in the actions on either side and using that labeling does nothing more than add fuel to the fire of a conflict where both sides have little liking or trust in the motivations of the other.
> 
> It's not surprising that we see cries of "anti-semitism" as opposed to a more rational look at the events playing out because that is a good distractor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the link I post very often shows right up until 1948 the majority land owners in Jerusalem were Jews. Then the arab muslims invaded and forcibly evicted them from their homes. Now that Israel has reclaimed their holy city the Jews are moving back to their property and rebuilding.
> Look no further than the charters of the PLO, hamas and fatah for Jew free zones, apartheid and dhimmi laws.
> 
> When did the arab muslims get this Palestine state as they have not fulfilled the requirements to be accepted as one. read their declaration of independence and see what they promised to do, and then promptly refused to carry it out.
> 
> They are proven consummate liars and extremists that will not settle until the UN gives in and abolishes Israel and allows the arab muslims to kill the Jews.
Click to expand...

The UN wants to abolishes Israel ?..link ?


----------



## Phoenall

eots said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EatMorChikin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cite the laws.
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * International humanitarian law (GC IV, art. 47)*
> _
> The main rules o f the law applicable in case of occupation state that:
> _
> 
> _*The occupant does not acquire sovereignty over the territory.*_
> _Occupation is only a temporary situation, and the rights of the occupant are limited to the extent of that period._
> _The occupying power must respect the laws in force in the occupied territory, unless they constitute a threat to its security or an obstacle to the application of the international law of occupation._
> _The occupying power must take measures to restore and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety._
> _To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the occupying power must ensure sufficient hygiene and public health standards, as well as the provision of food and medical care to the population under occupation._
> _The population in occupied territory cannot be forced to enlist in the occupier's armed forces._
> _*Collective or individual forcible transfers of population from and within the occupied territory are prohibited.*_
> _*Transfers of the civilian population of the occupying power into the occupied territory, regardless whether forcible or voluntary, are prohibited.*_
> _*Collective punishment is prohibited.*_
> _The taking of hostages is prohibited._
> _Reprisals against protected persons or their property are prohibited._
> _*The confiscation of private property by the occupant is prohibited.*_
> _The destruction or seizure of enemy property is prohibited, unless absolutely required by military necessity during the conduct of hostilities._
> _Cultural property must be respected._
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bolded the ones Israel breaks the most.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's why it's not "occupation". as you stated.
> 
> The land was actually lost by Jordan and Egypt.
> 
> There never was an independent muslim palestinian state in those areas - ever.
> 
> There were however two former Jewish states in that area.
> 
> I'll get to the other nonsense you posted later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionist settlers, were built for ideological reasons, not security. Thus, the settlement enterprise can be seen to be a grave violation of international occupation law as it violates the very fundamental core of that law: there is no legitimacy to annexation through conquest.
Click to expand...





 The land the settlements are on happens to owned by the Jews and was stolen in 1949 by the arab muslims, this was annexed through the arab muslim conquest of the land. Also the arab muslims have signed a treaty allowing the Jews to have full control over that land and to build settlements there.


----------



## eots

Phoenall said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EatMorChikin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cite the laws.
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * International humanitarian law (GC IV, art. 47)*
> _
> The main rules o f the law applicable in case of occupation state that:
> _
> 
> _*The occupant does not acquire sovereignty over the territory.*_
> _Occupation is only a temporary situation, and the rights of the occupant are limited to the extent of that period._
> _The occupying power must respect the laws in force in the occupied territory, unless they constitute a threat to its security or an obstacle to the application of the international law of occupation._
> _The occupying power must take measures to restore and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety._
> _To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the occupying power must ensure sufficient hygiene and public health standards, as well as the provision of food and medical care to the population under occupation._
> _The population in occupied territory cannot be forced to enlist in the occupier's armed forces._
> _*Collective or individual forcible transfers of population from and within the occupied territory are prohibited.*_
> _*Transfers of the civilian population of the occupying power into the occupied territory, regardless whether forcible or voluntary, are prohibited.*_
> _*Collective punishment is prohibited.*_
> _The taking of hostages is prohibited._
> _Reprisals against protected persons or their property are prohibited._
> _*The confiscation of private property by the occupant is prohibited.*_
> _The destruction or seizure of enemy property is prohibited, unless absolutely required by military necessity during the conduct of hostilities._
> _Cultural property must be respected._
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bolded the ones Israel breaks the most.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's why it's not "occupation". as you stated.
> 
> The land was actually lost by Jordan and Egypt.
> 
> There never was an independent muslim palestinian state in those areas - ever.
> 
> There were however two former Jewish states in that area.
> 
> I'll get to the other nonsense you posted later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionist settlers, were built for ideological reasons, not security. Thus, the settlement enterprise can be seen to be a grave violation of international occupation law as it violates the very fundamental core of that law: there is no legitimacy to annexation through conquest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The land the settlements are on happens to owned by the Jews and was stolen in 1949 by the arab muslims, this was annexed through the arab muslim conquest of the land. Also the arab muslims have signed a treaty allowing the Jews to have full control over that land and to build settlements there.
Click to expand...

LINK..


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.
> 
> There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.
> 
> Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.
> 
> Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.
> 
> Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.
> 
> To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree (no surprise, right?) - and here's why.
> 
> Most of this "ethnic cleansing claim" revolves around Jeruselum's settlement practices and the objections, sometimes violent - towards Jews moving into that area.
> 
> Jeruselum has long had it's "Muslim Quarter" and current political settlement strategies have focused on erradicating it through a deliberate policy of purchasing property (often under deceptive alias') and then developing them for Jewish-only occupation.  Recently,  Netanyahu admitted, during his campaign, that this was a deliberate policy to prevent Bethlehem moving towards Jeruselum.
> 
> In addition, many Palestinians claim they are tricked into selling:
> _
> But Palestinians often say they were fooled into selling to Jews.
> 
> 
> En-Natsheh's brother, Adel El-Khayat, lives in Ramallah now. It's a major Palestinian city nearby, but across a barrier and checkpoint from Jerusalem in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.
> 
> 
> The brother insists he sold to a Palestinian middleman, who had told him the apartments would be used by Muslims visiting the Al-Aqsa mosque. Jerusalem's holiest Islamic site sits on the same hilltop as the Temple Mount revered by Jews.
> 
> 
> "I didn't need the money," he said. "I wanted to offer my houses to the service of Al-Aqsa mosque."_​So - is it "ethnic cleansing" or is the housing market in Jeruselum simply one more unspoken front in the conflict designed to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state?
> 
> If it's "ethnic cleansing" then how do you label the actions of those developers who are building Jewish-only developments?
> 
> Israel also has policies that allow for segregated communities where "undesirables" can be kept out (undesirables being very open ended) and which allows communities to maintain a Jewish-only identity.  How many Palestinians or Arab Israeli's are allowed to live in the constantly expanding settlements?
> 
> Is it "anti-semitism"?  Ethnic cleansing?  Anger at the erosion of a Palestinian state?
> 
> Comparisons to "Nazi" are dishonest and cheap.  There is nothing even remotely Nazi-like in the actions on either side and using that labeling does nothing more than add fuel to the fire of a conflict where both sides have little liking or trust in the motivations of the other.
> 
> It's not surprising that we see cries of "anti-semitism" as opposed to a more rational look at the events playing out because that is a good distractor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the link I post very often shows right up until 1948 the majority land owners in Jerusalem were Jews. Then the arab muslims invaded and forcibly evicted them from their homes. Now that Israel has reclaimed their holy city the Jews are moving back to their property and rebuilding.
Click to expand...


The Muslim Quarter had a mixed population of Jews, Muslims and Christians.

Looking at this - it seems like the relative majorities in population demographics were constantly shifting: Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Hard to assess how many were land owners or not and I'm not sure that is a point worth making since Netanyahu finally admitted that this was a deliberate government policy of moving Arabs out and Jews in.  Given that - what ethnic cleansing is going on in Jeruselum now?

Actually, it's a bit more complex because even non-Arab Jerusalem natives are struggling to stay due to the very high cost of housing and to live there so the city demographics are favoring a wealthy elite over the traditional mix.



> Look no further than the charters of the PLO, hamas and fatah for Jew free zones, apartheid and dhimmi laws.



You're trying to switch focus here by throwing out the very terms you object to when they are applied to Israel. 



> When did the arab muslims get this Palestine state as they have not fulfilled the requirements to be accepted as one. read their declaration of independence and see what they promised to do, and then promptly refused to carry it out.



That's irrelevent.  The point is - will there be room for a state for them when you "deem" them ready? And who is doing "ethnic cleansing" in the meantime?



> They are proven consummate liars and extremists that will not settle until the UN gives in and abolishes Israel and allows the arab muslims to kill the Jews.



Now you are being silly.


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EatMorChikin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cite the laws.
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * International humanitarian law (GC IV, art. 47)*
> _
> The main rules o f the law applicable in case of occupation state that:
> _
> 
> _*The occupant does not acquire sovereignty over the territory.*_
> _Occupation is only a temporary situation, and the rights of the occupant are limited to the extent of that period._
> _The occupying power must respect the laws in force in the occupied territory, unless they constitute a threat to its security or an obstacle to the application of the international law of occupation._
> _The occupying power must take measures to restore and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety._
> _To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the occupying power must ensure sufficient hygiene and public health standards, as well as the provision of food and medical care to the population under occupation._
> _The population in occupied territory cannot be forced to enlist in the occupier's armed forces._
> _*Collective or individual forcible transfers of population from and within the occupied territory are prohibited.*_
> _*Transfers of the civilian population of the occupying power into the occupied territory, regardless whether forcible or voluntary, are prohibited.*_
> _*Collective punishment is prohibited.*_
> _The taking of hostages is prohibited._
> _Reprisals against protected persons or their property are prohibited._
> _*The confiscation of private property by the occupant is prohibited.*_
> _The destruction or seizure of enemy property is prohibited, unless absolutely required by military necessity during the conduct of hostilities._
> _Cultural property must be respected._
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bolded the ones Israel breaks the most.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What territory has Israel claimed sovereignty over ?
> 
> What population have they forcibly transfered into or out of the territory
> 
> What civilian population have they transferred into occupied territory that is not Israeli owned
> 
> What collective punishment other than those proscribed in the Genva conventions have been carried out
> 
> What private property has been confiscated
> 
> No islamonazi sources either as they are biased
Click to expand...


Can we also say no "zionazi sources" too since they are biased?


----------



## Phoenall

eots said:


> *Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories – UN report*
> 30 September 2003 –
> Israel is using excessive force in the occupied Palestinian territory (OPT), violating human rights in the name of counter-terrorism, and its building of a “separation wall” and expansion of settlements bear the hallmarks of annexation and illegal “conquest,” according to a United Nations human rights report released today.
> United Nations News Centre - Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories UN report






 This report comes from a proven rabid JEW HATING ANTI SEMITE and is dismissed by all decent people as being biased.

 There has never been any mention of the separation barrier that Saudi built 20 miles inside Yemen's borders at the same time. Stealing the most fertile land for the Saudis.


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.
> 
> There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.
> 
> Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.
> 
> Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.
> 
> Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.
> 
> To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> This issue has nothing to do with Judaism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure, as the arab muslim charters say it is, they specifically say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way ) unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism. Do yopu know of any 165 year old Jews ?
Click to expand...


Can you provide a link to this "charter"?


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.
> 
> There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.
> 
> Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.
> 
> Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.
> 
> Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.
> 
> To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree (no surprise, right?) - and here's why.
> 
> Most of this "ethnic cleansing claim" revolves around Jeruselum's settlement practices and the objections, sometimes violent - towards Jews moving into that area.
> 
> Jeruselum has long had it's "Muslim Quarter" and current political settlement strategies have focused on erradicating it through a deliberate policy of purchasing property (often under deceptive alias') and then developing them for Jewish-only occupation.  Recently,  Netanyahu admitted, during his campaign, that this was a deliberate policy to prevent Bethlehem moving towards Jeruselum.
> 
> In addition, many Palestinians claim they are tricked into selling:
> _
> But Palestinians often say they were fooled into selling to Jews.
> 
> 
> En-Natsheh's brother, Adel El-Khayat, lives in Ramallah now. It's a major Palestinian city nearby, but across a barrier and checkpoint from Jerusalem in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.
> 
> 
> The brother insists he sold to a Palestinian middleman, who had told him the apartments would be used by Muslims visiting the Al-Aqsa mosque. Jerusalem's holiest Islamic site sits on the same hilltop as the Temple Mount revered by Jews.
> 
> 
> "I didn't need the money," he said. "I wanted to offer my houses to the service of Al-Aqsa mosque."_​So - is it "ethnic cleansing" or is the housing market in Jeruselum simply one more unspoken front in the conflict designed to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state?
> 
> If it's "ethnic cleansing" then how do you label the actions of those developers who are building Jewish-only developments?
> 
> Israel also has policies that allow for segregated communities where "undesirables" can be kept out (undesirables being very open ended) and which allows communities to maintain a Jewish-only identity.  How many Palestinians or Arab Israeli's are allowed to live in the constantly expanding settlements?
> 
> Is it "anti-semitism"?  Ethnic cleansing?  Anger at the erosion of a Palestinian state?
> 
> Comparisons to "Nazi" are dishonest and cheap.  There is nothing even remotely Nazi-like in the actions on either side and using that labeling does nothing more than add fuel to the fire of a conflict where both sides have little liking or trust in the motivations of the other.
> 
> It's not surprising that we see cries of "anti-semitism" as opposed to a more rational look at the events playing out because that is a good distractor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the link I post very often shows right up until 1948 the majority land owners in Jerusalem were Jews. Then the arab muslims invaded and forcibly evicted them from their homes. Now that Israel has reclaimed their holy city the Jews are moving back to their property and rebuilding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter had a mixed population of Jews, Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Looking at this - it seems like the relative majorities in population demographics were constantly shifting: Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Hard to assess how many were land owners or not and I'm not sure that is a point worth making since Netanyahu finally admitted that this was a deliberate government policy of moving Arabs out and Jews in.  Given that - what ethnic cleansing is going on in Jeruselum now?
> 
> Actually, it's a bit more complex because even non-Arab Jerusalem natives are struggling to stay due to the very high cost of housing and to live there so the city demographics are favoring a wealthy elite over the traditional mix.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look no further than the charters of the PLO, hamas and fatah for Jew free zones, apartheid and dhimmi laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're trying to switch focus here by throwing out the very terms you object to when they are applied to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When did the arab muslims get this Palestine state as they have not fulfilled the requirements to be accepted as one. read their declaration of independence and see what they promised to do, and then promptly refused to carry it out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's irrelevent.  The point is - will there be room for a state for them when you "deem" them ready? And who is doing "ethnic cleansing" in the meantime?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are proven consummate liars and extremists that will not settle until the UN gives in and abolishes Israel and allows the arab muslims to kill the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now you are being silly.
Click to expand...





 As I said read the charters and see who is being apartheid

 Not me that sets the criteria but the UN, its charter and resolutions. They have stated that the arab muslims have to talk peace and mutual borders before they will be accepted as a full member of the UN.

 Am I or is it a fact posted often by some of the more virulent team Palestine posters that the P.A. want the UN, US and EU to evict the Jews from Palestine so they can have it all. They have demanded the UN take action to force Israel to go back to borders that have never existed, they have demanded that the US have their power of veto removed and stop giving Israel aid. They have demanded that existing laws be scrapped and rewritten in favour of the Palestinian cause. They have lied on oath about what the Jews have done and have forced media to stop reporting bad things about hamas.


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.
> 
> There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.
> 
> Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.
> 
> Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.
> 
> Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.
> 
> To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree (no surprise, right?) - and here's why.
> 
> Most of this "ethnic cleansing claim" revolves around Jeruselum's settlement practices and the objections, sometimes violent - towards Jews moving into that area.
> 
> Jeruselum has long had it's "Muslim Quarter" and current political settlement strategies have focused on erradicating it through a deliberate policy of purchasing property (often under deceptive alias') and then developing them for Jewish-only occupation.  Recently,  Netanyahu admitted, during his campaign, that this was a deliberate policy to prevent Bethlehem moving towards Jeruselum.
> 
> In addition, many Palestinians claim they are tricked into selling:
> _
> But Palestinians often say they were fooled into selling to Jews.
> 
> 
> En-Natsheh's brother, Adel El-Khayat, lives in Ramallah now. It's a major Palestinian city nearby, but across a barrier and checkpoint from Jerusalem in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.
> 
> 
> The brother insists he sold to a Palestinian middleman, who had told him the apartments would be used by Muslims visiting the Al-Aqsa mosque. Jerusalem's holiest Islamic site sits on the same hilltop as the Temple Mount revered by Jews.
> 
> 
> "I didn't need the money," he said. "I wanted to offer my houses to the service of Al-Aqsa mosque."_​So - is it "ethnic cleansing" or is the housing market in Jeruselum simply one more unspoken front in the conflict designed to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state?
> 
> If it's "ethnic cleansing" then how do you label the actions of those developers who are building Jewish-only developments?
> 
> Israel also has policies that allow for segregated communities where "undesirables" can be kept out (undesirables being very open ended) and which allows communities to maintain a Jewish-only identity.  How many Palestinians or Arab Israeli's are allowed to live in the constantly expanding settlements?
> 
> Is it "anti-semitism"?  Ethnic cleansing?  Anger at the erosion of a Palestinian state?
> 
> Comparisons to "Nazi" are dishonest and cheap.  There is nothing even remotely Nazi-like in the actions on either side and using that labeling does nothing more than add fuel to the fire of a conflict where both sides have little liking or trust in the motivations of the other.
> 
> It's not surprising that we see cries of "anti-semitism" as opposed to a more rational look at the events playing out because that is a good distractor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the link I post very often shows right up until 1948 the majority land owners in Jerusalem were Jews. Then the arab muslims invaded and forcibly evicted them from their homes. Now that Israel has reclaimed their holy city the Jews are moving back to their property and rebuilding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter had a mixed population of Jews, Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Looking at this - it seems like the relative majorities in population demographics were constantly shifting: Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Hard to assess how many were land owners or not and I'm not sure that is a point worth making since Netanyahu finally admitted that this was a deliberate government policy of moving Arabs out and Jews in.  Given that - what ethnic cleansing is going on in Jeruselum now?
> 
> Actually, it's a bit more complex because even non-Arab Jerusalem natives are struggling to stay due to the very high cost of housing and to live there so the city demographics are favoring a wealthy elite over the traditional mix.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look no further than the charters of the PLO, hamas and fatah for Jew free zones, apartheid and dhimmi laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're trying to switch focus here by throwing out the very terms you object to when they are applied to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When did the arab muslims get this Palestine state as they have not fulfilled the requirements to be accepted as one. read their declaration of independence and see what they promised to do, and then promptly refused to carry it out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's irrelevent.  The point is - will there be room for a state for them when you "deem" them ready? And who is doing "ethnic cleansing" in the meantime?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are proven consummate liars and extremists that will not settle until the UN gives in and abolishes Israel and allows the arab muslims to kill the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now you are being silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I said read the charters and see who is being apartheid
> 
> Not me that sets the criteria but the UN, its charter and resolutions. They have stated that the arab muslims have to talk peace and mutual borders before they will be accepted as a full member of the UN.
> 
> Am I or is it a fact posted often by *some of the more virulent team Palestine posters that the P.A. want the UN, US and EU to evict the Jews from Palestine so they can have it all.* They have demanded the UN take action to force Israel to go back to borders that have never existed, they have demanded that the US have their power of veto removed and stop giving Israel aid. They have demanded that existing laws be scrapped and rewritten in favour of the Palestinian cause. They have lied on oath about what the Jews have done and have forced media to stop reporting bad things about hamas.
Click to expand...


And some of the more virulent Team Israel posters want the Palestinians evicted and sent to other countries so Israel can have it all.

So what?

The UN is not going to do that with either the Israeli's or the Palestinians.  The argument is what to do with the Occupied Territories and all the rest is just chicken little.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.
> 
> There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.
> 
> Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.
> 
> Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.
> 
> Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.
> 
> To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> This issue has nothing to do with Judaism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure, as the arab muslim charters say it is, they specifically say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way ) unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism. Do yopu know of any 165 year old Jews ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you provide a link to this "charter"?
Click to expand...





 Like these do you mean

Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas

The Avalon Project Hamas Covenant 1988

Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Palestinian National Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

A HRC 16 NGO 134 of 8 March 2011


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.
> 
> There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.
> 
> Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.
> 
> Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.
> 
> Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.
> 
> To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree (no surprise, right?) - and here's why.
> 
> Most of this "ethnic cleansing claim" revolves around Jeruselum's settlement practices and the objections, sometimes violent - towards Jews moving into that area.
> 
> Jeruselum has long had it's "Muslim Quarter" and current political settlement strategies have focused on erradicating it through a deliberate policy of purchasing property (often under deceptive alias') and then developing them for Jewish-only occupation.  Recently,  Netanyahu admitted, during his campaign, that this was a deliberate policy to prevent Bethlehem moving towards Jeruselum.
> 
> In addition, many Palestinians claim they are tricked into selling:
> _
> But Palestinians often say they were fooled into selling to Jews.
> 
> 
> En-Natsheh's brother, Adel El-Khayat, lives in Ramallah now. It's a major Palestinian city nearby, but across a barrier and checkpoint from Jerusalem in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.
> 
> 
> The brother insists he sold to a Palestinian middleman, who had told him the apartments would be used by Muslims visiting the Al-Aqsa mosque. Jerusalem's holiest Islamic site sits on the same hilltop as the Temple Mount revered by Jews.
> 
> 
> "I didn't need the money," he said. "I wanted to offer my houses to the service of Al-Aqsa mosque."_​So - is it "ethnic cleansing" or is the housing market in Jeruselum simply one more unspoken front in the conflict designed to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state?
> 
> If it's "ethnic cleansing" then how do you label the actions of those developers who are building Jewish-only developments?
> 
> Israel also has policies that allow for segregated communities where "undesirables" can be kept out (undesirables being very open ended) and which allows communities to maintain a Jewish-only identity.  How many Palestinians or Arab Israeli's are allowed to live in the constantly expanding settlements?
> 
> Is it "anti-semitism"?  Ethnic cleansing?  Anger at the erosion of a Palestinian state?
> 
> Comparisons to "Nazi" are dishonest and cheap.  There is nothing even remotely Nazi-like in the actions on either side and using that labeling does nothing more than add fuel to the fire of a conflict where both sides have little liking or trust in the motivations of the other.
> 
> It's not surprising that we see cries of "anti-semitism" as opposed to a more rational look at the events playing out because that is a good distractor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the link I post very often shows right up until 1948 the majority land owners in Jerusalem were Jews. Then the arab muslims invaded and forcibly evicted them from their homes. Now that Israel has reclaimed their holy city the Jews are moving back to their property and rebuilding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter had a mixed population of Jews, Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Looking at this - it seems like the relative majorities in population demographics were constantly shifting: Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Hard to assess how many were land owners or not and I'm not sure that is a point worth making since Netanyahu finally admitted that this was a deliberate government policy of moving Arabs out and Jews in.  Given that - what ethnic cleansing is going on in Jeruselum now?
> 
> Actually, it's a bit more complex because even non-Arab Jerusalem natives are struggling to stay due to the very high cost of housing and to live there so the city demographics are favoring a wealthy elite over the traditional mix.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look no further than the charters of the PLO, hamas and fatah for Jew free zones, apartheid and dhimmi laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're trying to switch focus here by throwing out the very terms you object to when they are applied to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When did the arab muslims get this Palestine state as they have not fulfilled the requirements to be accepted as one. read their declaration of independence and see what they promised to do, and then promptly refused to carry it out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's irrelevent.  The point is - will there be room for a state for them when you "deem" them ready? And who is doing "ethnic cleansing" in the meantime?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are proven consummate liars and extremists that will not settle until the UN gives in and abolishes Israel and allows the arab muslims to kill the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now you are being silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I said read the charters and see who is being apartheid
> 
> Not me that sets the criteria but the UN, its charter and resolutions. They have stated that the arab muslims have to talk peace and mutual borders before they will be accepted as a full member of the UN.
> 
> Am I or is it a fact posted often by *some of the more virulent team Palestine posters that the P.A. want the UN, US and EU to evict the Jews from Palestine so they can have it all.* They have demanded the UN take action to force Israel to go back to borders that have never existed, they have demanded that the US have their power of veto removed and stop giving Israel aid. They have demanded that existing laws be scrapped and rewritten in favour of the Palestinian cause. They have lied on oath about what the Jews have done and have forced media to stop reporting bad things about hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And some of the more virulent Team Israel posters want the Palestinians evicted and sent to other countries so Israel can have it all.
> 
> So what?
> 
> The UN is not going to do that with either the Israeli's or the Palestinians.  The argument is what to do with the Occupied Territories and all the rest is just chicken little.
Click to expand...






Not quite they want the recent illegal immigrants removed and deported back to where they belong.

 Obama has just made a speech along those lines because he knows that the Jews would be wiped out in 6 months if they were forced to return to the 1949 armistice lines. Don't be fooled by the 67 borders as this is what is really meant. If the UN was decent it would have removed the P.A. from the lists and told them that while they engage in terrorist attacks they will get no more support from the UN or its member states. Watch them start running to the peace table if this ever happens, and the UN grows a pair.


----------



## Humanity

Phoenall said:


> Israel to go back to borders that have never existed



Why have they never existed?

As far as I can see there are no borders... Israel never declared borders when it became a state did it? Why?


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree (no surprise, right?) - and here's why.
> 
> Most of this "ethnic cleansing claim" revolves around Jeruselum's settlement practices and the objections, sometimes violent - towards Jews moving into that area.
> 
> Jeruselum has long had it's "Muslim Quarter" and current political settlement strategies have focused on erradicating it through a deliberate policy of purchasing property (often under deceptive alias') and then developing them for Jewish-only occupation.  Recently,  Netanyahu admitted, during his campaign, that this was a deliberate policy to prevent Bethlehem moving towards Jeruselum.
> 
> In addition, many Palestinians claim they are tricked into selling:
> _
> But Palestinians often say they were fooled into selling to Jews.
> 
> 
> En-Natsheh's brother, Adel El-Khayat, lives in Ramallah now. It's a major Palestinian city nearby, but across a barrier and checkpoint from Jerusalem in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.
> 
> 
> The brother insists he sold to a Palestinian middleman, who had told him the apartments would be used by Muslims visiting the Al-Aqsa mosque. Jerusalem's holiest Islamic site sits on the same hilltop as the Temple Mount revered by Jews.
> 
> 
> "I didn't need the money," he said. "I wanted to offer my houses to the service of Al-Aqsa mosque."_​So - is it "ethnic cleansing" or is the housing market in Jeruselum simply one more unspoken front in the conflict designed to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state?
> 
> If it's "ethnic cleansing" then how do you label the actions of those developers who are building Jewish-only developments?
> 
> Israel also has policies that allow for segregated communities where "undesirables" can be kept out (undesirables being very open ended) and which allows communities to maintain a Jewish-only identity.  How many Palestinians or Arab Israeli's are allowed to live in the constantly expanding settlements?
> 
> Is it "anti-semitism"?  Ethnic cleansing?  Anger at the erosion of a Palestinian state?
> 
> Comparisons to "Nazi" are dishonest and cheap.  There is nothing even remotely Nazi-like in the actions on either side and using that labeling does nothing more than add fuel to the fire of a conflict where both sides have little liking or trust in the motivations of the other.
> 
> It's not surprising that we see cries of "anti-semitism" as opposed to a more rational look at the events playing out because that is a good distractor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the link I post very often shows right up until 1948 the majority land owners in Jerusalem were Jews. Then the arab muslims invaded and forcibly evicted them from their homes. Now that Israel has reclaimed their holy city the Jews are moving back to their property and rebuilding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter had a mixed population of Jews, Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Looking at this - it seems like the relative majorities in population demographics were constantly shifting: Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Hard to assess how many were land owners or not and I'm not sure that is a point worth making since Netanyahu finally admitted that this was a deliberate government policy of moving Arabs out and Jews in.  Given that - what ethnic cleansing is going on in Jeruselum now?
> 
> Actually, it's a bit more complex because even non-Arab Jerusalem natives are struggling to stay due to the very high cost of housing and to live there so the city demographics are favoring a wealthy elite over the traditional mix.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look no further than the charters of the PLO, hamas and fatah for Jew free zones, apartheid and dhimmi laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're trying to switch focus here by throwing out the very terms you object to when they are applied to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When did the arab muslims get this Palestine state as they have not fulfilled the requirements to be accepted as one. read their declaration of independence and see what they promised to do, and then promptly refused to carry it out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's irrelevent.  The point is - will there be room for a state for them when you "deem" them ready? And who is doing "ethnic cleansing" in the meantime?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are proven consummate liars and extremists that will not settle until the UN gives in and abolishes Israel and allows the arab muslims to kill the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now you are being silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I said read the charters and see who is being apartheid
> 
> Not me that sets the criteria but the UN, its charter and resolutions. They have stated that the arab muslims have to talk peace and mutual borders before they will be accepted as a full member of the UN.
> 
> Am I or is it a fact posted often by *some of the more virulent team Palestine posters that the P.A. want the UN, US and EU to evict the Jews from Palestine so they can have it all.* They have demanded the UN take action to force Israel to go back to borders that have never existed, they have demanded that the US have their power of veto removed and stop giving Israel aid. They have demanded that existing laws be scrapped and rewritten in favour of the Palestinian cause. They have lied on oath about what the Jews have done and have forced media to stop reporting bad things about hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And some of the more virulent Team Israel posters want the Palestinians evicted and sent to other countries so Israel can have it all.
> 
> So what?
> 
> The UN is not going to do that with either the Israeli's or the Palestinians.  The argument is what to do with the Occupied Territories and all the rest is just chicken little.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite they want the recent illegal immigrants removed and deported back to where they belong.
Click to expand...


They aren't illegal immigrants.  Demographics show a multiple ethnic and religious groups inhabiting Jerusalem.



> Obama has just made a speech along those lines because he knows that the Jews would be wiped out in 6 months if they were forced to return to the 1949 armistice lines. Don't be fooled by the 67 borders as this is what is really meant. If the UN was decent it would have removed the P.A. from the lists and told them that while they engage in terrorist attacks they will get no more support from the UN or its member states. Watch them start running to the peace table if this ever happens, and the UN grows a pair.



The 67 borders are a starting point for land swaps.  Nothing wrong with that.  Except...Netanyahu and his electorate have shown they don't want any Palestinian state while public opinion polls amongst Palestinians show a majority still support a two state solution.


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.
> 
> There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.
> 
> Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.
> 
> Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.
> 
> Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.
> 
> To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> This issue has nothing to do with Judaism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure, as the arab muslim charters say it is, they specifically say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way ) unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism. Do yopu know of any 165 year old Jews ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you provide a link to this "charter"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like these do you mean
> 
> Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas
> 
> The Avalon Project Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Palestinian National Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> A HRC 16 NGO 134 of 8 March 2011
Click to expand...


Lets exclude Hamas, since they refuse to recognize Israel.  Where the do the last to links_ specifically *say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism._


----------



## Phoenall

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel to go back to borders that have never existed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why have they never existed?
> 
> As far as I can see there are no borders... Israel never declared borders when it became a state did it? Why?
Click to expand...





 Because they did not need to as the whole of Palestine was theirs by International law. The arab muslims are illegal immigrants on Israeli land until they accept the Mandate for Palestine and live in peace with the Jews.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> As the link I post very often shows right up until 1948 the majority land owners in Jerusalem were Jews. Then the arab muslims invaded and forcibly evicted them from their homes. Now that Israel has reclaimed their holy city the Jews are moving back to their property and rebuilding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter had a mixed population of Jews, Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Looking at this - it seems like the relative majorities in population demographics were constantly shifting: Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Hard to assess how many were land owners or not and I'm not sure that is a point worth making since Netanyahu finally admitted that this was a deliberate government policy of moving Arabs out and Jews in.  Given that - what ethnic cleansing is going on in Jeruselum now?
> 
> Actually, it's a bit more complex because even non-Arab Jerusalem natives are struggling to stay due to the very high cost of housing and to live there so the city demographics are favoring a wealthy elite over the traditional mix.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look no further than the charters of the PLO, hamas and fatah for Jew free zones, apartheid and dhimmi laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're trying to switch focus here by throwing out the very terms you object to when they are applied to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When did the arab muslims get this Palestine state as they have not fulfilled the requirements to be accepted as one. read their declaration of independence and see what they promised to do, and then promptly refused to carry it out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's irrelevent.  The point is - will there be room for a state for them when you "deem" them ready? And who is doing "ethnic cleansing" in the meantime?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are proven consummate liars and extremists that will not settle until the UN gives in and abolishes Israel and allows the arab muslims to kill the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now you are being silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I said read the charters and see who is being apartheid
> 
> Not me that sets the criteria but the UN, its charter and resolutions. They have stated that the arab muslims have to talk peace and mutual borders before they will be accepted as a full member of the UN.
> 
> Am I or is it a fact posted often by *some of the more virulent team Palestine posters that the P.A. want the UN, US and EU to evict the Jews from Palestine so they can have it all.* They have demanded the UN take action to force Israel to go back to borders that have never existed, they have demanded that the US have their power of veto removed and stop giving Israel aid. They have demanded that existing laws be scrapped and rewritten in favour of the Palestinian cause. They have lied on oath about what the Jews have done and have forced media to stop reporting bad things about hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And some of the more virulent Team Israel posters want the Palestinians evicted and sent to other countries so Israel can have it all.
> 
> So what?
> 
> The UN is not going to do that with either the Israeli's or the Palestinians.  The argument is what to do with the Occupied Territories and all the rest is just chicken little.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite they want the recent illegal immigrants removed and deported back to where they belong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They aren't illegal immigrants.  Demographics show a multiple ethnic and religious groups inhabiting Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obama has just made a speech along those lines because he knows that the Jews would be wiped out in 6 months if they were forced to return to the 1949 armistice lines. Don't be fooled by the 67 borders as this is what is really meant. If the UN was decent it would have removed the P.A. from the lists and told them that while they engage in terrorist attacks they will get no more support from the UN or its member states. Watch them start running to the peace table if this ever happens, and the UN grows a pair.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The 67 borders are a starting point for land swaps.  Nothing wrong with that.  Except...Netanyahu and his electorate have shown they don't want any Palestinian state while public opinion polls amongst Palestinians show a majority still support a two state solution.
Click to expand...






 1922 treaty granted the land of Palestine to the Jews by its legal owners. The arab muslims were invited to stay in peace or go as enemies by the LoN. So they are illegal immigrants

 What treaty forced borders on Israel that they did not want, and were are the armed garrisons along those borders to stop the Israelis from reclaiming the land that is theirs by International law.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.
> 
> There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.
> 
> Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.
> 
> Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.
> 
> Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.
> 
> To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> This issue has nothing to do with Judaism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure, as the arab muslim charters say it is, they specifically say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way ) unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism. Do yopu know of any 165 year old Jews ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you provide a link to this "charter"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like these do you mean
> 
> Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas
> 
> The Avalon Project Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Palestinian National Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> A HRC 16 NGO 134 of 8 March 2011
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lets exclude Hamas, since they refuse to recognize Israel.  Where the do the last to links_ specifically *say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism._
Click to expand...






 How about the changes that were never ratified under the PLO rules of two thirds majority of full council to pass them



Although the PNC met in Gaza on 24 April 1996, it did not revoke or change the covenant, but only issued a statement saying that it had become aged, and that an undefined part of it would be rewritten at an undetermined date in the future. While the English language press release stated that the PLO Covenant was "_hereby amended_", the Arabic version of Yassir Arafat's letter on this declaration stated:

_It has been decided upon: 1. Changing the Palestine National Charter by canceling the articles that are contrary to the letters exchanged between the PLO and the Government of Israel, on 9 and 10 September 1993. 2. The PNC will appoint a legal committee with the task of redrafting the National Charter. The Charter will be presented to the first meeting of the Central Council.

Formally, the resolution adopted by the council consisted of two simple clauses. The first declared that the council "decides to amend the Palestinian National Covenant by canceling clauses which contradict the letters exchanged between the P.L.O. and the Israeli Government." The second ordered a new charter to be drafted within six months

The decision fails to meet the obligations laid out in the Oslo accords in two respects. First, the actual amendment of the Covenant has been left for a future date. As of now, the old Covenant, in its original form, remains the governing document of the PLO, and will continue in this status until the amendments are actually approved... There is a sharp difference between calling for something to change and actually implementing the changes. Second, the decision does not specify which clauses will be amended._


----------



## CMike

Once again Jews don't live in settlements they live in housing, either houses or apartments.

I condemn the ethnic cleansing and the Nazi like idea from the international community, including the US, that Jews have limitations of what areas they can live in simply because they are Jews.


----------



## CMike

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.
> 
> There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.
> 
> Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.
> 
> Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.
> 
> Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.
> 
> To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> This issue has nothing to do with Judaism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure, as the arab muslim charters say it is, they specifically say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way ) unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism. Do yopu know of any 165 year old Jews ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you provide a link to this "charter"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like these do you mean
> 
> Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas
> 
> The Avalon Project Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Palestinian National Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> A HRC 16 NGO 134 of 8 March 2011
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lets exclude Hamas, since they refuse to recognize Israel.  Where the do the last to links_ specifically *say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism._
Click to expand...

You can't exclude Hamas.

Hamas is the Gaza government, and they make up half the government in the West Bank.

I don't understand your question.

Also the Palestinian Authority is the same thing as Hamas except that the leader where's a tie  and is more discreet about wanting to destroy all of Israel.


----------



## CMike

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> As the link I post very often shows right up until 1948 the majority land owners in Jerusalem were Jews. Then the arab muslims invaded and forcibly evicted them from their homes. Now that Israel has reclaimed their holy city the Jews are moving back to their property and rebuilding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter had a mixed population of Jews, Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Looking at this - it seems like the relative majorities in population demographics were constantly shifting: Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Hard to assess how many were land owners or not and I'm not sure that is a point worth making since Netanyahu finally admitted that this was a deliberate government policy of moving Arabs out and Jews in.  Given that - what ethnic cleansing is going on in Jeruselum now?
> 
> Actually, it's a bit more complex because even non-Arab Jerusalem natives are struggling to stay due to the very high cost of housing and to live there so the city demographics are favoring a wealthy elite over the traditional mix.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look no further than the charters of the PLO, hamas and fatah for Jew free zones, apartheid and dhimmi laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're trying to switch focus here by throwing out the very terms you object to when they are applied to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When did the arab muslims get this Palestine state as they have not fulfilled the requirements to be accepted as one. read their declaration of independence and see what they promised to do, and then promptly refused to carry it out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's irrelevent.  The point is - will there be room for a state for them when you "deem" them ready? And who is doing "ethnic cleansing" in the meantime?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are proven consummate liars and extremists that will not settle until the UN gives in and abolishes Israel and allows the arab muslims to kill the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now you are being silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I said read the charters and see who is being apartheid
> 
> Not me that sets the criteria but the UN, its charter and resolutions. They have stated that the arab muslims have to talk peace and mutual borders before they will be accepted as a full member of the UN.
> 
> Am I or is it a fact posted often by *some of the more virulent team Palestine posters that the P.A. want the UN, US and EU to evict the Jews from Palestine so they can have it all.* They have demanded the UN take action to force Israel to go back to borders that have never existed, they have demanded that the US have their power of veto removed and stop giving Israel aid. They have demanded that existing laws be scrapped and rewritten in favour of the Palestinian cause. They have lied on oath about what the Jews have done and have forced media to stop reporting bad things about hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And some of the more virulent Team Israel posters want the Palestinians evicted and sent to other countries so Israel can have it all.
> 
> So what?
> 
> The UN is not going to do that with either the Israeli's or the Palestinians.  The argument is what to do with the Occupied Territories and all the rest is just chicken little.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite they want the recent illegal immigrants removed and deported back to where they belong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They aren't illegal immigrants.  Demographics show a multiple ethnic and religious groups inhabiting Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obama has just made a speech along those lines because he knows that the Jews would be wiped out in 6 months if they were forced to return to the 1949 armistice lines. Don't be fooled by the 67 borders as this is what is really meant. If the UN was decent it would have removed the P.A. from the lists and told them that while they engage in terrorist attacks they will get no more support from the UN or its member states. Watch them start running to the peace table if this ever happens, and the UN grows a pair.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The 67 borders are a starting point for land swaps.  Nothing wrong with that.  Except...Netanyahu and his electorate have shown they don't want any Palestinian state while public opinion polls amongst Palestinians show a majority still support a two state solution.
Click to expand...

The 2015 borders are the starting point.


----------



## aris2chat

CMike said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> This issue has nothing to do with Judaism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure, as the arab muslim charters say it is, they specifically say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way ) unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism. Do yopu know of any 165 year old Jews ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you provide a link to this "charter"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like these do you mean
> 
> Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas
> 
> The Avalon Project Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Palestinian National Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> A HRC 16 NGO 134 of 8 March 2011
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lets exclude Hamas, since they refuse to recognize Israel.  Where the do the last to links_ specifically *say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't exclude Hamas.
> 
> Hamas is the Gaza government, and they make up half the government in the West Bank.
> 
> I don't understand your question.
> 
> Also the Palestinian Authority is the same thing as Hamas except that the leader where's a tie  and is more discreet about wanting to destroy all of Israel.
Click to expand...


PA still regards hamas as a terrorist group.  Now they ahve called on the arab world to attack hamas.


----------



## CMike

eots said:


> *Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories – UN report*
> 30 September 2003 –
> Israel is using excessive force in the occupied Palestinian territory (OPT), violating human rights in the name of counter-terrorism, and its building of a “separation wall” and expansion of settlements bear the hallmarks of annexation and illegal “conquest,” according to a United Nations human rights report released today.
> United Nations News Centre - Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories UN report


BFD

The UN also claimed that Israel is the number one violator of women in the world despite women having full rights.

There was a woman prime minister, there are women as justices of the Supreme Court.

Let's compare this to the arab countries where women can't drive, vote, or even go out without a chaperone.

What the UN says is just vile hatred of Jews.

It's not an actual legitimate source.


----------



## CMike

aris2chat said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure, as the arab muslim charters say it is, they specifically say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way ) unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism. Do yopu know of any 165 year old Jews ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you provide a link to this "charter"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like these do you mean
> 
> Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas
> 
> The Avalon Project Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Palestinian National Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> A HRC 16 NGO 134 of 8 March 2011
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lets exclude Hamas, since they refuse to recognize Israel.  Where the do the last to links_ specifically *say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't exclude Hamas.
> 
> Hamas is the Gaza government, and they make up half the government in the West Bank.
> 
> I don't understand your question.
> 
> Also the Palestinian Authority is the same thing as Hamas except that the leader where's a tie  and is more discreet about wanting to destroy all of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> PA still regards hamas as a terrorist group.  Now they ahve called on the arab world to attack hamas.
Click to expand...

Rather odd since Hamas is part of their government in the West Bank.

Obviously what you stated isn't true.


----------



## Billo_Really

CMike said:


> BFD


BF what?




CMike said:


> The UN also claimed that Israel is the number one violator of women in the world despite women having full rights.


Not Arab women.




CMike said:


> There was a woman prime minister, there are women as justices of the Supreme Court.


Not Arab women.

In fact, the Knesset wants to make a law barring Arab-Israeli's from becoming PM.




CMike said:


> Let's compare this to the arab countries where women can't drive, vote, or even go out without a chaperone.


That's because of Israeli and US drones are flying overhead.




CMike said:


> What the UN says is just vile hatred of Jews.


And when the UN told Israel to stop providing aid to apartheid South Africa, was that because of _"...vile hatred of Jews"?_




CMike said:


> It's not an actual legitimate source.


Neither are you.


----------



## aris2chat

CMike said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories – UN report*
> 30 September 2003 –
> Israel is using excessive force in the occupied Palestinian territory (OPT), violating human rights in the name of counter-terrorism, and its building of a “separation wall” and expansion of settlements bear the hallmarks of annexation and illegal “conquest,” according to a United Nations human rights report released today.
> United Nations News Centre - Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories UN report
> 
> 
> 
> BFD
> 
> The UN also claimed that Israel is the number one violator of women in the world despite women having full rights.
> 
> There was a woman prime minister, there are women as justices of the Supreme Court.
> 
> Let's compare this to the arab countries where women can't drive, vote, or even go out without a chaperone.
> 
> What the UN says is just vile hatred of Jews.
> 
> It's not an actual legitimate source.
Click to expand...


Syria, Iran, Saudi, were ignored.  Hardly a fair or rational consideration.
You really want to make this as an example or UN righteousness?  Or bias and bigotry?
UN fails to care for women in arab states or refugees from syria.  They don't condemn countries that rape prisoners or kill women that are raped.  Countries that deny women an education or force marriage of young girls that have not even had their first menses.  Women prevented from holding certain jobs, women from voting, women paid a fraction of what men get paid.  Countries where women are forced to beg or forced to give up their children to other family after the death of a husband.  But they say Israel violates women's rights?????

Where is the logic?


----------



## CMike

There is none. That's why the UN is a vile institution.


----------



## eots




----------



## natstew

eots said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the minds of the leftist and the nutjobs at the U.N. Jews building homes is the biggest threat in the middle east right now.
> 
> 
> 
> the settlements are illegal under international law
Click to expand...

International Law?
Fuck international law. International law is political opinion.


----------



## CMike

Show the international law that forbids Jews from living in the West Bank?

Not the idiotic UN resolutions they are meaningless.

Cite the actual law please?


----------



## CMike

Billo_Really said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> BFD
> 
> 
> 
> BF what?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN also claimed that Israel is the number one violator of women in the world despite women having full rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not Arab women.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was a woman prime minister, there are women as justices of the Supreme Court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not Arab women.
Click to expand...


Arab Israeli women have the same rights as Israeli men.

It makes no difference.



CMike said:


> In fact, the Knesset wants to make a law barring Arab-Israeli's from becoming PM.



Any such law exist in Israel?

However, no Jew will ever become the head of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Turkey, Jordan, Iraq, Afghanistan, or any other country in the middle east.

If an arab Israeli woman can get enough votes she can become prime minister of Israel.





CMike said:


> Let's compare this to the arab countries where women can't drive, vote, or even go out without a chaperone.


  That's because of Israeli and US drones are flying overhead.




CMike said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> What the UN says is just vile hatred of Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> And when the UN told Israel to stop providing aid to apartheid South Africa, was that because of _"...vile hatred of Jews"?_
Click to expand...

_
_
Israel hardly gave aid to South Africa. Israel has it's own problems.

That said Israel isn't governed by the vile institution of the UN or the Obama regime.


----------



## Coyote

CMike said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> This issue has nothing to do with Judaism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure, as the arab muslim charters say it is, they specifically say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way ) unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism. Do yopu know of any 165 year old Jews ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you provide a link to this "charter"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like these do you mean
> 
> Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas
> 
> The Avalon Project Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Palestinian National Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> A HRC 16 NGO 134 of 8 March 2011
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lets exclude Hamas, since they refuse to recognize Israel.  Where the do the last to links_ specifically *say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't exclude Hamas.
> 
> Hamas is the Gaza government, and they make up half the government in the West Bank.
> 
> I don't understand your question.
> 
> Also the Palestinian Authority is the same thing as Hamas except that the leader where's a tie  and is more discreet about wanting to destroy all of Israel.
Click to expand...


My question is specific to Phoenall's claim - so, I'd like to know it states: _ specifically *say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism_

The PA is not the same as Hamas.


----------



## CMike

Coyote said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure, as the arab muslim charters say it is, they specifically say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way ) unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism. Do yopu know of any 165 year old Jews ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you provide a link to this "charter"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like these do you mean
> 
> Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas
> 
> The Avalon Project Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Palestinian National Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> A HRC 16 NGO 134 of 8 March 2011
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lets exclude Hamas, since they refuse to recognize Israel.  Where the do the last to links_ specifically *say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't exclude Hamas.
> 
> Hamas is the Gaza government, and they make up half the government in the West Bank.
> 
> I don't understand your question.
> 
> Also the Palestinian Authority is the same thing as Hamas except that the leader where's a tie  and is more discreet about wanting to destroy all of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My question is specific to Phoenall's claim - so, I'd like to know it states: _ specifically *say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism_
> 
> The PA is not the same as Hamas.
Click to expand...

It's the same government.


----------



## Coyote

CMike said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories – UN report*
> 30 September 2003 –
> Israel is using excessive force in the occupied Palestinian territory (OPT), violating human rights in the name of counter-terrorism, and its building of a “separation wall” and expansion of settlements bear the hallmarks of annexation and illegal “conquest,” according to a United Nations human rights report released today.
> United Nations News Centre - Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories UN report
> 
> 
> 
> BFD
> 
> *The UN also claimed that Israel is the number one violator of women in the world despite women having full rights.*
> 
> There was a woman prime minister, there are women as justices of the Supreme Court.
> 
> Let's compare this to the arab countries where women can't drive, vote, or even go out without a chaperone.
> 
> What the UN says is just vile hatred of Jews.
> 
> It's not an actual legitimate source.
Click to expand...


I don't think they actually did say that - Fox said that.

The UN singled Israel out in regards to Palestinian women in on particular report: titled "Situation of and assistance to Palestinian women," Yemen, Saudi Arabia, all of those other countries have no bearing in regards to that.  No where can I find anything claiming Israel is the number one violator of women in the world.


----------



## Coyote

CMike said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you provide a link to this "charter"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like these do you mean
> 
> Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas
> 
> The Avalon Project Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Palestinian National Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> A HRC 16 NGO 134 of 8 March 2011
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lets exclude Hamas, since they refuse to recognize Israel.  Where the do the last to links_ specifically *say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't exclude Hamas.
> 
> Hamas is the Gaza government, and they make up half the government in the West Bank.
> 
> I don't understand your question.
> 
> Also the Palestinian Authority is the same thing as Hamas except that the leader where's a tie  and is more discreet about wanting to destroy all of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My question is specific to Phoenall's claim - so, I'd like to know it states: _ specifically *say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism_
> 
> The PA is not the same as Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's the same government.
Click to expand...


Are Republicans and Democrats the same?


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter had a mixed population of Jews, Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Looking at this - it seems like the relative majorities in population demographics were constantly shifting: Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Hard to assess how many were land owners or not and I'm not sure that is a point worth making since Netanyahu finally admitted that this was a deliberate government policy of moving Arabs out and Jews in.  Given that - what ethnic cleansing is going on in Jeruselum now?
> 
> Actually, it's a bit more complex because even non-Arab Jerusalem natives are struggling to stay due to the very high cost of housing and to live there so the city demographics are favoring a wealthy elite over the traditional mix.
> 
> You're trying to switch focus here by throwing out the very terms you object to when they are applied to Israel.
> 
> That's irrelevent.  The point is - will there be room for a state for them when you "deem" them ready? And who is doing "ethnic cleansing" in the meantime?
> 
> Now you are being silly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I said read the charters and see who is being apartheid
> 
> Not me that sets the criteria but the UN, its charter and resolutions. They have stated that the arab muslims have to talk peace and mutual borders before they will be accepted as a full member of the UN.
> 
> Am I or is it a fact posted often by *some of the more virulent team Palestine posters that the P.A. want the UN, US and EU to evict the Jews from Palestine so they can have it all.* They have demanded the UN take action to force Israel to go back to borders that have never existed, they have demanded that the US have their power of veto removed and stop giving Israel aid. They have demanded that existing laws be scrapped and rewritten in favour of the Palestinian cause. They have lied on oath about what the Jews have done and have forced media to stop reporting bad things about hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And some of the more virulent Team Israel posters want the Palestinians evicted and sent to other countries so Israel can have it all.
> 
> So what?
> 
> The UN is not going to do that with either the Israeli's or the Palestinians.  The argument is what to do with the Occupied Territories and all the rest is just chicken little.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite they want the recent illegal immigrants removed and deported back to where they belong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They aren't illegal immigrants.  Demographics show a multiple ethnic and religious groups inhabiting Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obama has just made a speech along those lines because he knows that the Jews would be wiped out in 6 months if they were forced to return to the 1949 armistice lines. Don't be fooled by the 67 borders as this is what is really meant. If the UN was decent it would have removed the P.A. from the lists and told them that while they engage in terrorist attacks they will get no more support from the UN or its member states. Watch them start running to the peace table if this ever happens, and the UN grows a pair.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The 67 borders are a starting point for land swaps.  Nothing wrong with that.  Except...Netanyahu and his electorate have shown they don't want any Palestinian state while public opinion polls amongst Palestinians show a majority still support a two state solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1922 treaty granted the land of Palestine to the Jews by its legal owners. The arab muslims were invited to stay in peace or go as enemies by the LoN. So they are illegal immigrants
Click to expand...


They were there legally to begin with.  They were not illegal immigrants.



> What treaty forced borders on Israel that they did not want, and were are the armed garrisons along those borders to stop the Israelis from reclaiming the land that is theirs by International law.



So you you think it's fine then for Putin to invade Ukraine and claim it?


----------



## montelatici

Well, the Jews were Europeans and they were colonists. There were hardly any Jews in Palestine and they were Arabs of the Jewish religion just as there were Christian Arabs.  They spoke Arabic and were culturally Arab.  The colonists from Europe went to Palestine and systematically removed the non-Jews.  What is there to question?


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> This issue has nothing to do with Judaism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure, as the arab muslim charters say it is, they specifically say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way ) unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism. Do yopu know of any 165 year old Jews ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you provide a link to this "charter"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like these do you mean
> 
> Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas
> 
> The Avalon Project Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Palestinian National Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> A HRC 16 NGO 134 of 8 March 2011
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lets exclude Hamas, since they refuse to recognize Israel.  Where the do the last to links_ specifically *say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about the changes that were never ratified under the PLO rules of two thirds majority of full council to pass them
> 
> 
> 
> Although the PNC met in Gaza on 24 April 1996, it did not revoke or change the covenant, but only issued a statement saying that it had become aged, and that an undefined part of it would be rewritten at an undetermined date in the future. While the English language press release stated that the PLO Covenant was "_hereby amended_", the Arabic version of Yassir Arafat's letter on this declaration stated:
> 
> _It has been decided upon: 1. Changing the Palestine National Charter by canceling the articles that are contrary to the letters exchanged between the PLO and the Government of Israel, on 9 and 10 September 1993. 2. The PNC will appoint a legal committee with the task of redrafting the National Charter. The Charter will be presented to the first meeting of the Central Council.
> 
> Formally, the resolution adopted by the council consisted of two simple clauses. The first declared that the council "decides to amend the Palestinian National Covenant by canceling clauses which contradict the letters exchanged between the P.L.O. and the Israeli Government." The second ordered a new charter to be drafted within six months
> 
> The decision fails to meet the obligations laid out in the Oslo accords in two respects. First, the actual amendment of the Covenant has been left for a future date. As of now, the old Covenant, in its original form, remains the governing document of the PLO, and will continue in this status until the amendments are actually approved... There is a sharp difference between calling for something to change and actually implementing the changes. Second, the decision does not specify which clauses will be amended._
Click to expand...


So where does it say anything about_* Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( including Israel )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism._


----------



## aris2chat

Coyote said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories – UN report*
> 30 September 2003 –
> Israel is using excessive force in the occupied Palestinian territory (OPT), violating human rights in the name of counter-terrorism, and its building of a “separation wall” and expansion of settlements bear the hallmarks of annexation and illegal “conquest,” according to a United Nations human rights report released today.
> United Nations News Centre - Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories UN report
> 
> 
> 
> BFD
> 
> *The UN also claimed that Israel is the number one violator of women in the world despite women having full rights.*
> 
> There was a woman prime minister, there are women as justices of the Supreme Court.
> 
> Let's compare this to the arab countries where women can't drive, vote, or even go out without a chaperone.
> 
> What the UN says is just vile hatred of Jews.
> 
> It's not an actual legitimate source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think they actually did say that - Fox said that.
> 
> The UN singled Israel out in regards to Palestinian women in on particular report: titled "Situation of and assistance to Palestinian women," Yemen, Saudi Arabia, all of those other countries have no bearing in regards to that.  No where can I find anything claiming Israel is the number one violator of women in the world.
Click to expand...



UN fails to help women in need from syria, sudan or a dozen other countries, but it blames Israel for conditions in gaza?
Hamas is the only one that can help the women in gaza, or make life harder for them.


----------



## Billo_Really

aris2chat said:


> UN fails to help women in need from syria, sudan or a dozen other countries, but it blames Israel for conditions in gaza?
> Hamas is the only one that can help the women in gaza, or make life harder for them.


Are you mad?

A population under occupation, cannot decide what life is for themselves, the occupiers make all the decisions.


----------



## eots




----------



## eots

professional pirates and land thieves


----------



## Phoenall

CMike said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Muslim Quarter had a mixed population of Jews, Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Looking at this - it seems like the relative majorities in population demographics were constantly shifting: Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Hard to assess how many were land owners or not and I'm not sure that is a point worth making since Netanyahu finally admitted that this was a deliberate government policy of moving Arabs out and Jews in.  Given that - what ethnic cleansing is going on in Jeruselum now?
> 
> Actually, it's a bit more complex because even non-Arab Jerusalem natives are struggling to stay due to the very high cost of housing and to live there so the city demographics are favoring a wealthy elite over the traditional mix.
> 
> You're trying to switch focus here by throwing out the very terms you object to when they are applied to Israel.
> 
> That's irrelevent.  The point is - will there be room for a state for them when you "deem" them ready? And who is doing "ethnic cleansing" in the meantime?
> 
> Now you are being silly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I said read the charters and see who is being apartheid
> 
> Not me that sets the criteria but the UN, its charter and resolutions. They have stated that the arab muslims have to talk peace and mutual borders before they will be accepted as a full member of the UN.
> 
> Am I or is it a fact posted often by *some of the more virulent team Palestine posters that the P.A. want the UN, US and EU to evict the Jews from Palestine so they can have it all.* They have demanded the UN take action to force Israel to go back to borders that have never existed, they have demanded that the US have their power of veto removed and stop giving Israel aid. They have demanded that existing laws be scrapped and rewritten in favour of the Palestinian cause. They have lied on oath about what the Jews have done and have forced media to stop reporting bad things about hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And some of the more virulent Team Israel posters want the Palestinians evicted and sent to other countries so Israel can have it all.
> 
> So what?
> 
> The UN is not going to do that with either the Israeli's or the Palestinians.  The argument is what to do with the Occupied Territories and all the rest is just chicken little.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite they want the recent illegal immigrants removed and deported back to where they belong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They aren't illegal immigrants.  Demographics show a multiple ethnic and religious groups inhabiting Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obama has just made a speech along those lines because he knows that the Jews would be wiped out in 6 months if they were forced to return to the 1949 armistice lines. Don't be fooled by the 67 borders as this is what is really meant. If the UN was decent it would have removed the P.A. from the lists and told them that while they engage in terrorist attacks they will get no more support from the UN or its member states. Watch them start running to the peace table if this ever happens, and the UN grows a pair.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The 67 borders are a starting point for land swaps.  Nothing wrong with that.  Except...Netanyahu and his electorate have shown they don't want any Palestinian state while public opinion polls amongst Palestinians show a majority still support a two state solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The 2015 borders are the starting point.
Click to expand...





 Actually UN res 242 is the starting point and they arab muslims have to negotiate within its framework


----------



## Phoenall

CMike said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories – UN report*
> 30 September 2003 –
> Israel is using excessive force in the occupied Palestinian territory (OPT), violating human rights in the name of counter-terrorism, and its building of a “separation wall” and expansion of settlements bear the hallmarks of annexation and illegal “conquest,” according to a United Nations human rights report released today.
> United Nations News Centre - Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories UN report
> 
> 
> 
> BFD
> 
> The UN also claimed that Israel is the number one violator of women in the world despite women having full rights.
> 
> There was a woman prime minister, there are women as justices of the Supreme Court.
> 
> Let's compare this to the arab countries where women can't drive, vote, or even go out without a chaperone.
> 
> What the UN says is just vile hatred of Jews.
> 
> It's not an actual legitimate source.
Click to expand...





 Which is why UNWATCH was formed to make the public aware of the ANTI SEMITISM of the UNSC and UNGC


----------



## Phoenall

CMike said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you provide a link to this "charter"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like these do you mean
> 
> Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas
> 
> The Avalon Project Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Palestinian National Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> A HRC 16 NGO 134 of 8 March 2011
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lets exclude Hamas, since they refuse to recognize Israel.  Where the do the last to links_ specifically *say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't exclude Hamas.
> 
> Hamas is the Gaza government, and they make up half the government in the West Bank.
> 
> I don't understand your question.
> 
> Also the Palestinian Authority is the same thing as Hamas except that the leader where's a tie  and is more discreet about wanting to destroy all of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> PA still regards hamas as a terrorist group.  Now they ahve called on the arab world to attack hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rather odd since Hamas is part of their government in the West Bank.
> 
> Obviously what you stated isn't true.
Click to expand...





It is just as Abbas engineered a backlash to hamas when he put the grievance to the ICJ. He knew the outcome would be hamas being guilty of war crimes


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> BFD
> 
> 
> 
> BF what?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN also claimed that Israel is the number one violator of women in the world despite women having full rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not Arab women.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was a woman prime minister, there are women as justices of the Supreme Court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not Arab women.
> 
> In fact, the Knesset wants to make a law barring Arab-Israeli's from becoming PM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's compare this to the arab countries where women can't drive, vote, or even go out without a chaperone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's because of Israeli and US drones are flying overhead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> What the UN says is just vile hatred of Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And when the UN told Israel to stop providing aid to apartheid South Africa, was that because of _"...vile hatred of Jews"?_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not an actual legitimate source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither are you.
Click to expand...





 If they are Israeli citizens then they have full rights, unless you can link to an Israeli source that says otherwise ?

 LINK

 Was like that before the invention of flight

 No it was because they wanted to bring down the apartheid regime, now they regret doing so.

What makes you think you are ?


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure, as the arab muslim charters say it is, they specifically say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way ) unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism. Do yopu know of any 165 year old Jews ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you provide a link to this "charter"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like these do you mean
> 
> Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas
> 
> The Avalon Project Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Palestinian National Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> A HRC 16 NGO 134 of 8 March 2011
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lets exclude Hamas, since they refuse to recognize Israel.  Where the do the last to links_ specifically *say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't exclude Hamas.
> 
> Hamas is the Gaza government, and they make up half the government in the West Bank.
> 
> I don't understand your question.
> 
> Also the Palestinian Authority is the same thing as Hamas except that the leader where's a tie  and is more discreet about wanting to destroy all of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My question is specific to Phoenall's claim - so, I'd like to know it states: _ specifically *say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism_
> 
> The PA is not the same as Hamas.
Click to expand...





 I already gave you the link that shows the changes to the PLO charter were never ratified, and so the original still stands to this day. The PLO/fatah cant get the required two thirds majority to even meet never mind change policy.


----------



## Humanity

Phoenall said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> As I said read the charters and see who is being apartheid
> 
> Not me that sets the criteria but the UN, its charter and resolutions. They have stated that the arab muslims have to talk peace and mutual borders before they will be accepted as a full member of the UN.
> 
> Am I or is it a fact posted often by *some of the more virulent team Palestine posters that the P.A. want the UN, US and EU to evict the Jews from Palestine so they can have it all.* They have demanded the UN take action to force Israel to go back to borders that have never existed, they have demanded that the US have their power of veto removed and stop giving Israel aid. They have demanded that existing laws be scrapped and rewritten in favour of the Palestinian cause. They have lied on oath about what the Jews have done and have forced media to stop reporting bad things about hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And some of the more virulent Team Israel posters want the Palestinians evicted and sent to other countries so Israel can have it all.
> 
> So what?
> 
> The UN is not going to do that with either the Israeli's or the Palestinians.  The argument is what to do with the Occupied Territories and all the rest is just chicken little.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not quite they want the recent illegal immigrants removed and deported back to where they belong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They aren't illegal immigrants.  Demographics show a multiple ethnic and religious groups inhabiting Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obama has just made a speech along those lines because he knows that the Jews would be wiped out in 6 months if they were forced to return to the 1949 armistice lines. Don't be fooled by the 67 borders as this is what is really meant. If the UN was decent it would have removed the P.A. from the lists and told them that while they engage in terrorist attacks they will get no more support from the UN or its member states. Watch them start running to the peace table if this ever happens, and the UN grows a pair.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The 67 borders are a starting point for land swaps.  Nothing wrong with that.  Except...Netanyahu and his electorate have shown they don't want any Palestinian state while public opinion polls amongst Palestinians show a majority still support a two state solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The 2015 borders are the starting point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually UN res 242 is the starting point and they arab muslims have to negotiate within its framework
Click to expand...


Thats funny....

When is Israel going to negotiate within this framework?

Isn't Israel the country with the greatest number of 'broken' UN Resolutions?


----------



## Phoenall

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you provide a link to this "charter"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like these do you mean
> 
> Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas
> 
> The Avalon Project Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Palestinian National Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> A HRC 16 NGO 134 of 8 March 2011
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lets exclude Hamas, since they refuse to recognize Israel.  Where the do the last to links_ specifically *say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't exclude Hamas.
> 
> Hamas is the Gaza government, and they make up half the government in the West Bank.
> 
> I don't understand your question.
> 
> Also the Palestinian Authority is the same thing as Hamas except that the leader where's a tie  and is more discreet about wanting to destroy all of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My question is specific to Phoenall's claim - so, I'd like to know it states: _ specifically *say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism_
> 
> The PA is not the same as Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I already gave you the link that shows the changes to the PLO charter were never ratified, and so the original still stands to this day. The PLO/fatah cant get the required two thirds majority to even meet never mind change policy.
Click to expand...




eots said:


> professional pirates and land thieves







 Do explain how you can steal your own land ?


----------



## Phoenall

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And some of the more virulent Team Israel posters want the Palestinians evicted and sent to other countries so Israel can have it all.
> 
> So what?
> 
> The UN is not going to do that with either the Israeli's or the Palestinians.  The argument is what to do with the Occupied Territories and all the rest is just chicken little.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite they want the recent illegal immigrants removed and deported back to where they belong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They aren't illegal immigrants.  Demographics show a multiple ethnic and religious groups inhabiting Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obama has just made a speech along those lines because he knows that the Jews would be wiped out in 6 months if they were forced to return to the 1949 armistice lines. Don't be fooled by the 67 borders as this is what is really meant. If the UN was decent it would have removed the P.A. from the lists and told them that while they engage in terrorist attacks they will get no more support from the UN or its member states. Watch them start running to the peace table if this ever happens, and the UN grows a pair.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The 67 borders are a starting point for land swaps.  Nothing wrong with that.  Except...Netanyahu and his electorate have shown they don't want any Palestinian state while public opinion polls amongst Palestinians show a majority still support a two state solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The 2015 borders are the starting point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually UN res 242 is the starting point and they arab muslims have to negotiate within its framework
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thats funny....
> 
> When is Israel going to negotiate within this framework?
> 
> Isn't Israel the country with the greatest number of 'broken' UN Resolutions?
Click to expand...





 They have done so since 1967, it is the arab muslims that refuse to negotiate

 Brought by islamonazi nations and as you know UN resolutions are not laws, just recommendations.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like these do you mean
> 
> Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas
> 
> The Avalon Project Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Palestinian National Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> A HRC 16 NGO 134 of 8 March 2011
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets exclude Hamas, since they refuse to recognize Israel.  Where the do the last to links_ specifically *say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't exclude Hamas.
> 
> Hamas is the Gaza government, and they make up half the government in the West Bank.
> 
> I don't understand your question.
> 
> Also the Palestinian Authority is the same thing as Hamas except that the leader where's a tie  and is more discreet about wanting to destroy all of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My question is specific to Phoenall's claim - so, I'd like to know it states: _ specifically *say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism_
> 
> The PA is not the same as Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's the same government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are Republicans and Democrats the same?
Click to expand...





 Depends on the criteria you use ?


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Phoenall said:


> What the UN says is just vile hatred of Jews.
> 
> It's not an actual legitimate source.








Antisemites like those in this thread love to reference the U.N. whenever it can act to back up their ethnic hatred. They operate on the principle that what makes something right or wrong has nothing to do with it's actual merit, but only by whether the majority is capable of wielding its will upon the minority. Now, ignoring the antisemites in this thread who are downright insane, even the sane one falls for the fallacy of the appeal to popularity and the appeal to authority.

If one were to place 100 members of the kkk in a room with 1 black person and require them to pass resolutions, I'm sure these same antisemites would point to the validity of such resolutions, right?  After all, any august body that passes a resolution such as the infamous "Zionism is racism" debacle can't possibly have any ethnic malice to it, can it?  Goodness, if the very creation of a state to express the same sort of self-determination for one people as exists for any other is "racist", then why were no resolutions passed stating that France is racist for being the French state or Finland for the Fins, eh?

  People who are both intelligent and non-prejudiced see right through this crap and understand it for what it is -- the persecution of a tiny minority at the hands of a huge majority. True liberals defend the tiny minority against such persecution. The insane antisemites are incapable of any sort of reason, of course, but even the sane ones such as those in his thread fail the test when it comes to understanding the social dynamics involved in terms of the majority persecuting the minority -- even as they try to foist the ridiculous notion that their antisemitism is somehow actually liberal.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> As I said read the charters and see who is being apartheid
> 
> Not me that sets the criteria but the UN, its charter and resolutions. They have stated that the arab muslims have to talk peace and mutual borders before they will be accepted as a full member of the UN.
> 
> Am I or is it a fact posted often by *some of the more virulent team Palestine posters that the P.A. want the UN, US and EU to evict the Jews from Palestine so they can have it all.* They have demanded the UN take action to force Israel to go back to borders that have never existed, they have demanded that the US have their power of veto removed and stop giving Israel aid. They have demanded that existing laws be scrapped and rewritten in favour of the Palestinian cause. They have lied on oath about what the Jews have done and have forced media to stop reporting bad things about hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And some of the more virulent Team Israel posters want the Palestinians evicted and sent to other countries so Israel can have it all.
> 
> So what?
> 
> The UN is not going to do that with either the Israeli's or the Palestinians.  The argument is what to do with the Occupied Territories and all the rest is just chicken little.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite they want the recent illegal immigrants removed and deported back to where they belong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They aren't illegal immigrants.  Demographics show a multiple ethnic and religious groups inhabiting Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obama has just made a speech along those lines because he knows that the Jews would be wiped out in 6 months if they were forced to return to the 1949 armistice lines. Don't be fooled by the 67 borders as this is what is really meant. If the UN was decent it would have removed the P.A. from the lists and told them that while they engage in terrorist attacks they will get no more support from the UN or its member states. Watch them start running to the peace table if this ever happens, and the UN grows a pair.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The 67 borders are a starting point for land swaps.  Nothing wrong with that.  Except...Netanyahu and his electorate have shown they don't want any Palestinian state while public opinion polls amongst Palestinians show a majority still support a two state solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1922 treaty granted the land of Palestine to the Jews by its legal owners. The arab muslims were invited to stay in peace or go as enemies by the LoN. So they are illegal immigrants
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were there legally to begin with.  They were not illegal immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What treaty forced borders on Israel that they did not want, and were are the armed garrisons along those borders to stop the Israelis from reclaiming the land that is theirs by International law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you you think it's fine then for Putin to invade Ukraine and claim it?
Click to expand...






 Chalk and cheese as Israel was attacked and drove the enemy back, then occupied the territory as a defensive measure.
 Does not answer the question                    were are the armed garrisons along those borders to stop the Israelis from reclaiming the land that is theirs by International law


 The arab muslims were illegal immigrants trespassing on Israel's land, they refused to abide by the Mandate for Palestine rules making them illegal immigrants. You need to research International Law of the period


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Well, the Jews were Europeans and they were colonists. There were hardly any Jews in Palestine and they were Arabs of the Jewish religion just as there were Christian Arabs.  They spoke Arabic and were culturally Arab.  The colonists from Europe went to Palestine and systematically removed the non-Jews.  What is there to question?








CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Jerusalem (After 1291)
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Jerusalem After 1291 

"...Present condition of the City: (1907 edition)

Jerusalem (El Quds) is the capital of a sanjak and the seat of a mutasarrif directly dependent on the Sublime Porte. In the administration of the sanjak the mutasarrif is assisted by a council called majlis ida ra; the city has a municipal government (majlis baladiye) presided over by a mayor. The total population is estimated at 66,000. *The Turkish census of 1905, which counts only Ottoman subjects, gives these figures:
Jews, 45,000; Moslems, 8,000; Orthodox Christians, 6000;* Latins, 2500; Armenians, 950; Protestants, 800; Melkites, 250; Copts, 150; Abyssinians, 100; Jacobites, 100; Catholic Syrians, 50. During the Nineteenth century large suburbs to the north and east have grown up, chiefly for the use of the Jewish colony. These suburbs contain nearly Half the present population...""

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Growth of Jerusalem 1838-Present

....... Jews Muslims Christians Total
1838 6,000 5,000 3,000 14,000
*1844 7,120 5,760 3,390 16,270 ..... ..The First Official Ottoman Census *
1876 12,000 7,560 5,470 25,030 .... .....Second """"""""""
1905 40,000 8,000 10,900 58,900 ....... Third/last, detailed in CathEncyc above
1948 99,320 36,680 31,300 167,300
1990 353,200 124,200 14,000 491,400
1992 385,000 150,000 15,000 550,000

http://www.testimony-magazine.org/jerusalem/bring.htm




 WRONG AGAIN ABDUL


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure, as the arab muslim charters say it is, they specifically say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way ) unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism. Do yopu know of any 165 year old Jews ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you provide a link to this "charter"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like these do you mean
> 
> Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas
> 
> The Avalon Project Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Palestinian National Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> A HRC 16 NGO 134 of 8 March 2011
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lets exclude Hamas, since they refuse to recognize Israel.  Where the do the last to links_ specifically *say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about the changes that were never ratified under the PLO rules of two thirds majority of full council to pass them
> 
> 
> 
> Although the PNC met in Gaza on 24 April 1996, it did not revoke or change the covenant, but only issued a statement saying that it had become aged, and that an undefined part of it would be rewritten at an undetermined date in the future. While the English language press release stated that the PLO Covenant was "_hereby amended_", the Arabic version of Yassir Arafat's letter on this declaration stated:
> 
> _It has been decided upon: 1. Changing the Palestine National Charter by canceling the articles that are contrary to the letters exchanged between the PLO and the Government of Israel, on 9 and 10 September 1993. 2. The PNC will appoint a legal committee with the task of redrafting the National Charter. The Charter will be presented to the first meeting of the Central Council.
> 
> Formally, the resolution adopted by the council consisted of two simple clauses. The first declared that the council "decides to amend the Palestinian National Covenant by canceling clauses which contradict the letters exchanged between the P.L.O. and the Israeli Government." The second ordered a new charter to be drafted within six months
> 
> The decision fails to meet the obligations laid out in the Oslo accords in two respects. First, the actual amendment of the Covenant has been left for a future date. As of now, the old Covenant, in its original form, remains the governing document of the PLO, and will continue in this status until the amendments are actually approved... There is a sharp difference between calling for something to change and actually implementing the changes. Second, the decision does not specify which clauses will be amended._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So where does it say anything about_* Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( including Israel )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism._
Click to expand...






In the original PLO charter that was never amended, it is a PLO lie that says it was.


The Avalon Project The Palestinian National Charter

*Read article 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and specially 6*


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> UN fails to help women in need from syria, sudan or a dozen other countries, but it blames Israel for conditions in gaza?
> Hamas is the only one that can help the women in gaza, or make life harder for them.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you mad?
> 
> A population under occupation, cannot decide what life is for themselves, the occupiers make all the decisions.
Click to expand...





 Again you ignore the hamas leadership that atates that gaza is not under occupation and has not been since August 2005. The UN being anti semitic does not see it this way.


----------



## Jroc

*




after 1948, the Jordanians attempted to obliterate the Jewish presence and signs of Jewish identity from the Old City, including the destruction of 53 synagogues along with Jewish academies and libraries. They built a road through the Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives, and used Jewish gravestones as paving material and lavatory seats in Jordanian camps. The Jordanians even evicted the Jewish residents of the Old City and subsequently prevented Jews and Israeli Moslems from entering the Old City to pray at the irrespective holy sites. 

King Hussein Planned to "CLOSE" Western Wall

In 1967 King Hussein planned an Arab Luxury Hotel to be built along the site of the Western Wall. This would have FOREVER prevented Jews from approaching the "Wailing Wall" for prayers.

The construction of the hotel would have required the closing of the Morgrabi Gate so King Hussein made plans to open the "Eastern Gate". Dirt moving equipment, air hammers, crane, and other equipment had been moved inside the gate to prepare for construction and demolition of the "Eastern Gate".
		
Click to expand...

*


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## Humanity

Phoenall said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite they want the recent illegal immigrants removed and deported back to where they belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't illegal immigrants.  Demographics show a multiple ethnic and religious groups inhabiting Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obama has just made a speech along those lines because he knows that the Jews would be wiped out in 6 months if they were forced to return to the 1949 armistice lines. Don't be fooled by the 67 borders as this is what is really meant. If the UN was decent it would have removed the P.A. from the lists and told them that while they engage in terrorist attacks they will get no more support from the UN or its member states. Watch them start running to the peace table if this ever happens, and the UN grows a pair.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The 67 borders are a starting point for land swaps.  Nothing wrong with that.  Except...Netanyahu and his electorate have shown they don't want any Palestinian state while public opinion polls amongst Palestinians show a majority still support a two state solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The 2015 borders are the starting point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually UN res 242 is the starting point and they arab muslims have to negotiate within its framework
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thats funny....
> 
> When is Israel going to negotiate within this framework?
> 
> Isn't Israel the country with the greatest number of 'broken' UN Resolutions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have done so since 1967, it is the arab muslims that refuse to negotiate
> 
> Brought by islamonazi nations and as you know UN resolutions are not laws, just recommendations.
Click to expand...


Oh Phoney... You are such fun....

"Article 2 of the Charter of the United Nations requires all members to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations."

United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


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## Phoenall

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't illegal immigrants.  Demographics show a multiple ethnic and religious groups inhabiting Jerusalem.
> 
> The 67 borders are a starting point for land swaps.  Nothing wrong with that.  Except...Netanyahu and his electorate have shown they don't want any Palestinian state while public opinion polls amongst Palestinians show a majority still support a two state solution.
> 
> 
> 
> The 2015 borders are the starting point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually UN res 242 is the starting point and they arab muslims have to negotiate within its framework
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thats funny....
> 
> When is Israel going to negotiate within this framework?
> 
> Isn't Israel the country with the greatest number of 'broken' UN Resolutions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have done so since 1967, it is the arab muslims that refuse to negotiate
> 
> Brought by islamonazi nations and as you know UN resolutions are not laws, just recommendations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh Phoney... You are such fun....
> 
> "Article 2 of the Charter of the United Nations requires all members to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations."
> 
> United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...





 Correct, but it does not say they cant respond to acts of violence and belligerence from that state.

 You are even more fun posting a link that has nothing to do with your claims, so easy to show you are a complete illiterate


----------



## Coyote

*Per discussion with the OP, we've moved this thread to the Structured Debate Zone.  This is a new forum for many of you but one we encourage you all to try if you want a more structured debate but the topic, or desired rules might not fit into CDZ.

The overall rules are here: Guidelines for Posting in the Debate Now Forum Page 3 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum*

The rules for this discussion, as determined by Cmike are:

*RULES FOR THIS DISCUSSION*

1. Please stay reasonably on topic as expressed in the question to be discussed.

2. No ad hominem. Focus on the member's argument instead of on the member.

3. Rebut the other person's argument with your own opinion and sources if you disagree with it rather than objection to his/her sources or with demands that he/she provide documentation for his/her opinion or point of view. Opinion without sources is okay.

*THE TOPICTO BE ADDRESSED:  Jewish housing vs Jewish settlements*




CMike said:


> To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.
> 
> There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.
> 
> Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.
> 
> Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.
> 
> Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.
> 
> To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.



From this point on, let's follow the topic guidelines.  CMike let me know if you need anything changed in this.


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## teddyearp

Coyote said:


> The 67 borders are a starting point for land swaps.  Nothing wrong with that.  Except...Netanyahu and his electorate have shown they don't want any Palestinian state while public opinion polls amongst Palestinians show a majority still support a two state solution.



No, there is more wrong with that.  You see, that is what Israel tried in 2005 with the Gaza strip, remember?  That was a pullback to a 1967 border with Israel giving up all control.

Look how well that has worked out for them in the last 10 years.  The whole thing is going to hell.  I would say the Pals should count themselves lucky that Israel built a wall across the West Bank instead of just kicking their asses out!


----------



## teddyearp

Billo_Really said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> BFD
> 
> 
> 
> BF what?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN also claimed that Israel is the number one violator of women in the world despite women having full rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not Arab women.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was a woman prime minister, there are women as justices of the Supreme Court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not Arab women.
> 
> In fact, the Knesset wants to make a law barring Arab-Israeli's from becoming PM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's compare this to the arab countries where women can't drive, vote, or even go out without a chaperone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's because of Israeli and US drones are flying overhead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> What the UN says is just vile hatred of Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And when the UN told Israel to stop providing aid to apartheid South Africa, was that because of _"...vile hatred of Jews"?_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not an actual legitimate source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither are you.
Click to expand...


----------



## teddyearp

Coyote said:


> Are Republicans and Democrats the same?



As a matter of fact, yes they are.


----------



## Billo_Really

teddyearp said:


>


FO&D


Israel did not give up "all" control in 2005.  That is a lie.


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> Again you ignore the hamas leadership that atates that gaza is not under occupation and has not been since August 2005. The UN being anti semitic does not see it this way.


You can't cherry-pick quotes out of context to prove the lies you tell.  The occupation of Gaza never ended.  They merely withdrew their troops from the immediate area, but still maintained effective control over the entire area ever since.  That satisfy's the legal definition of an occupation.


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> If they are Israeli citizens then they have full rights, unless you can link to an Israeli source that says otherwise ?


I don't give a shit about your personal feelings toward a particular website.  That has nothing to do with the truth of falsehood of a claim, made at such website.  So fuck you on that.

Now, as far as a link...



> *Citizenship law makes Israel an apartheid state*
> _We do not have to identify the characteristics of South African apartheid in the civil rights discrimination in Israel in order to call Israel an apartheid state. It is best that we not try to evade the truth: *The Citizenship Law's existence turns Israel into an apartheid state*_.


Back to you...


----------



## CMike

Billo_Really said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FO&D
> 
> 
> Israel did not give up "all" control in 2005.  That is a lie.
Click to expand...

Not only did they give up control in Gaza, much to the shame of Israel it forcefully evicted Jews from their homes in that area.


----------



## CMike

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> If they are Israeli citizens then they have full rights, unless you can link to an Israeli source that says otherwise ?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't give a shit about your personal feelings toward a particular website.  That has nothing to do with the truth of falsehood of a claim, made at such website.  So fuck you on that.
> 
> Now, as far as a link...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Citizenship law makes Israel an apartheid state*
> _We do not have to identify the characteristics of South African apartheid in the civil rights discrimination in Israel in order to call Israel an apartheid state. It is best that we not try to evade the truth: *The Citizenship Law's existence turns Israel into an apartheid state*_.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Back to you...
Click to expand...

Haaretz is a left wing newspaper. This is an editorial.

Unlike every other country in the middle east, Israel has a free press, so people have the legal right to write and publish stupid stuff.


----------



## CMike

Phoenall said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like these do you mean
> 
> Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas
> 
> The Avalon Project Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Palestinian National Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> A HRC 16 NGO 134 of 8 March 2011
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets exclude Hamas, since they refuse to recognize Israel.  Where the do the last to links_ specifically *say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't exclude Hamas.
> 
> Hamas is the Gaza government, and they make up half the government in the West Bank.
> 
> I don't understand your question.
> 
> Also the Palestinian Authority is the same thing as Hamas except that the leader where's a tie  and is more discreet about wanting to destroy all of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> PA still regards hamas as a terrorist group.  Now they ahve called on the arab world to attack hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rather odd since Hamas is part of their government in the West Bank.
> 
> Obviously what you stated isn't true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is just as Abbas engineered a backlash to hamas when he put the grievance to the ICJ. He knew the outcome would be hamas being guilty of war crimes
Click to expand...

I don't think the ICC would attack anyone but Israel.


----------



## CMike

Coyote said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories – UN report*
> 30 September 2003 –
> Israel is using excessive force in the occupied Palestinian territory (OPT), violating human rights in the name of counter-terrorism, and its building of a “separation wall” and expansion of settlements bear the hallmarks of annexation and illegal “conquest,” according to a United Nations human rights report released today.
> United Nations News Centre - Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories UN report
> 
> 
> 
> BFD
> 
> *The UN also claimed that Israel is the number one violator of women in the world despite women having full rights.*
> 
> There was a woman prime minister, there are women as justices of the Supreme Court.
> 
> Let's compare this to the arab countries where women can't drive, vote, or even go out without a chaperone.
> 
> What the UN says is just vile hatred of Jews.
> 
> It's not an actual legitimate source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think they actually did say that - Fox said that.
> 
> The UN singled Israel out in regards to Palestinian women in on particular report: titled "Situation of and assistance to Palestinian women," Yemen, Saudi Arabia, all of those other countries have no bearing in regards to that.  No where can I find anything claiming Israel is the number one violator of women in the world.
Click to expand...

Top violator of women s rights around the world It s Israel says UN Fox News

E CN.6 2015 L.2 of 13 March 2015

Once again, not Syria, Iran, Jordan, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the other countries that truely don't give women rights, they only mention Israel.


----------



## CMike

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> UN fails to help women in need from syria, sudan or a dozen other countries, but it blames Israel for conditions in gaza?
> Hamas is the only one that can help the women in gaza, or make life harder for them.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you mad?
> 
> A population under occupation, cannot decide what life is for themselves, the occupiers make all the decisions.
Click to expand...

If they don't like being under the Israeli government they can go home to their home country of Jordan.

However, they have a PA/Hamas government now that makes decisions for them.


----------



## CMike

Coyote said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like these do you mean
> 
> Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas
> 
> The Avalon Project Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Palestinian National Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> A HRC 16 NGO 134 of 8 March 2011
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets exclude Hamas, since they refuse to recognize Israel.  Where the do the last to links_ specifically *say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't exclude Hamas.
> 
> Hamas is the Gaza government, and they make up half the government in the West Bank.
> 
> I don't understand your question.
> 
> Also the Palestinian Authority is the same thing as Hamas except that the leader where's a tie  and is more discreet about wanting to destroy all of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My question is specific to Phoenall's claim - so, I'd like to know it states: _ specifically *say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way )* unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism_
> 
> The PA is not the same as Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's the same government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are Republicans and Democrats the same?
Click to expand...

That's not the same. They have a coalition government.

It's not a two party system.


----------



## Coyote

CMike said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> UN fails to help women in need from syria, sudan or a dozen other countries, but it blames Israel for conditions in gaza?
> Hamas is the only one that can help the women in gaza, or make life harder for them.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you mad?
> 
> A population under occupation, cannot decide what life is for themselves, the occupiers make all the decisions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If they don't like being under the Israeli government they can go home to their home country of Jordan.
> 
> However, they have a PA/Hamas government now that makes decisions for them.
Click to expand...


Jordan isn't their "home country".  These are people that have lived there for generations.


----------



## Coyote

CMike said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories – UN report*
> 30 September 2003 –
> Israel is using excessive force in the occupied Palestinian territory (OPT), violating human rights in the name of counter-terrorism, and its building of a “separation wall” and expansion of settlements bear the hallmarks of annexation and illegal “conquest,” according to a United Nations human rights report released today.
> United Nations News Centre - Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories UN report
> 
> 
> 
> BFD
> 
> *The UN also claimed that Israel is the number one violator of women in the world despite women having full rights.*
> 
> There was a woman prime minister, there are women as justices of the Supreme Court.
> 
> Let's compare this to the arab countries where women can't drive, vote, or even go out without a chaperone.
> 
> What the UN says is just vile hatred of Jews.
> 
> It's not an actual legitimate source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think they actually did say that - Fox said that.
> 
> The UN singled Israel out in regards to Palestinian women in on particular report: titled "Situation of and assistance to Palestinian women," Yemen, Saudi Arabia, all of those other countries have no bearing in regards to that.  No where can I find anything claiming Israel is the number one violator of women in the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Top violator of women s rights around the world It s Israel says UN Fox News
> 
> E CN.6 2015 L.2 of 13 March 2015
> 
> Once again, not Syria, Iran, Jordan, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the other countries that truely don't give women rights, they only mention Israel.
Click to expand...


There is a disconnect here.

There is what FOX says:  "top violator of women's rights around the world".

And there is what the UN report says, which isn't want FOX claims.


----------



## teddyearp

Billo_Really said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FO&D
> 
> 
> Israel did not give up "all" control in 2005.  That is a lie.
Click to expand...


My Loony tunes smilies were in response to your claim that Israel and the US has drones flying everywhere.


----------



## teddyearp

Billo_Really said:


> The occupation of Gaza never ended.  They merely withdrew their troops from the immediate area, but still maintained effective control over the entire area ever since.  That satisfy's the legal definition of an occupation.



Maybe since you seem to like to cherry pick stuff, why not look for the distress that the Israeli's had when the IDF, YES THE FUCKING IDF, forcefully evicted them from Gaza in 2005.  The Israeli's had just about made a garden of Eden out of the Gaza strip; look at it now.

Oh yeah, you're so ????????? you still lap up all the slop and blame everything on the Israelis. Do not dare look at what Hamas did to the strip, no don't dare.

Come on Bill, you are smarter than that.


----------



## teddyearp

Coyote said:


> Jordan isn't their "home country".  These are people that have lived there for generations.



Jordan was their home country right after the 1948 war.  Or did you forget?  Oh yeah, no mention of how Jordan "occupied" the West Bank and annexed it into their country; or at least we do not dare mention it now.


----------



## Coyote

teddyearp said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan isn't their "home country".  These are people that have lived there for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan was their home country right after the 1948 war.  Or did you forget?  Oh yeah, no mention of how Jordan "occupied" the West Bank and annexed it into their country; or at least we do not dare mention it now.
Click to expand...


They lived in the area they live in now.  Not in what is called "Jordan".  If another country annexes your country -does that change your "home"?  No.


----------



## Billo_Really

CMike said:


> Not only did they give up control in Gaza, much to the shame of Israel it forcefully evicted Jews from their homes in that area.


They did not give up control.  That is a lie. 

Israel controls 80% of what goes in to (and out of) Gaza.

If they gave up control, then why can't Gazan's leave?


----------



## Billo_Really

CMike said:


> Haaretz is a left wing newspaper. This is an editorial.
> 
> Unlike every other country in the middle east, Israel has a free press, so people have the legal right to write and publish stupid stuff.


So what are you saying, that the law doesn't exist?


----------



## Billo_Really

CMike said:


> I don't think the ICC would attack anyone but Israel.


Israel should be attacked.  They deserve to be attacked.


----------



## Billo_Really

teddyearp said:


> Jordan was their home country right after the 1948 war.  Or did you forget?  Oh yeah, no mention of how Jordan "occupied" the West Bank and annexed it into their country; or at least we do not dare mention it now.


This is not Jordan!


----------



## aris2chat

Coyote said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories – UN report*
> 30 September 2003 –
> Israel is using excessive force in the occupied Palestinian territory (OPT), violating human rights in the name of counter-terrorism, and its building of a “separation wall” and expansion of settlements bear the hallmarks of annexation and illegal “conquest,” according to a United Nations human rights report released today.
> United Nations News Centre - Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories UN report
> 
> 
> 
> BFD
> 
> *The UN also claimed that Israel is the number one violator of women in the world despite women having full rights.*
> 
> There was a woman prime minister, there are women as justices of the Supreme Court.
> 
> Let's compare this to the arab countries where women can't drive, vote, or even go out without a chaperone.
> 
> What the UN says is just vile hatred of Jews.
> 
> It's not an actual legitimate source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think they actually did say that - Fox said that.
> 
> The UN singled Israel out in regards to Palestinian women in on particular report: titled "Situation of and assistance to Palestinian women," Yemen, Saudi Arabia, all of those other countries have no bearing in regards to that.  No where can I find anything claiming Israel is the number one violator of women in the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Top violator of women s rights around the world It s Israel says UN Fox News
> 
> E CN.6 2015 L.2 of 13 March 2015
> 
> Once again, not Syria, Iran, Jordan, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the other countries that truely don't give women rights, they only mention Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a disconnect here.
> 
> There is what FOX says:  "top violator of women's rights around the world".
> 
> And there is what the UN report says, which isn't want FOX claims.
Click to expand...


17 pages of how palestinians women are victims, but Israel is named as responsible when it should be the PA and hamas.  From education to health to violence against women........these are issues of the palestinians factions, sects and governing bodies, not Israelis that should make changes.


----------



## Jroc

CMike said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FO&D
> 
> 
> Israel did not give up "all" control in 2005.  That is a lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not only did they give up control in Gaza, much to the shame of Israel it forcefully evicted Jews from their homes in that area.
Click to expand...


----------



## Jroc

Coyote said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan isn't their "home country".  These are people that have lived there for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan was their home country right after the 1948 war.  Or did you forget?  Oh yeah, no mention of how Jordan "occupied" the West Bank and annexed it into their country; or at least we do not dare mention it now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They lived in the area they live in now.  Not in what is called "Jordan".  If another country annexes your country -does that change your "home"?  No.
Click to expand...

Who's they? The Arabs who live in Jordan are different than the Arabs who live in Jordan? How so?


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Jroc said:


> Who's they? The Arabs who live in Jordan are different than the Arabs who live in Jordan? How so?




 They aren't.   Since they are an invented people and the reason for their invention has to do with those pursuing the policy of Judenrein framing the conflict in such a way as to inverse the true social dynamics involved, if it wasn't one subset of Arabs created towards this end, it would be another. 

 These posters here who favor policies of Judenrein will resort to any ruse possible by way of masking their true intent, which is ultimately the destruction of the self determination of the Jewish people.  By crafting these made-up groups of Arabs (who are far less distinct from other Arabs as are New Yorkers to Texans) they hope to frame the discussion as big bad Jews against some small group of Arabs instead of Arab supremacists persecuting Jews. The sooner these made-up groups are given control, the sooner they can embark upon the Judenfrei policies these posters seek.


----------



## Coyote

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan isn't their "home country".  These are people that have lived there for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan was their home country right after the 1948 war.  Or did you forget?  Oh yeah, no mention of how Jordan "occupied" the West Bank and annexed it into their country; or at least we do not dare mention it now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They lived in the area they live in now.  Not in what is called "Jordan".  If another country annexes your country -does that change your "home"?  No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who's they? The Arabs who live in Jordan are different than the Arabs who live in Jordan? How so?
Click to expand...


It has nothing to do with differences but what constitutes home.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who's they? The Arabs who live in Jordan are different than the Arabs who live in Jordan? How so?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't.   Since they are an invented people and the reason for their invention has to do with those pursuing the policy of Judenrein framing the conflict in such a way as to inverse the true social dynamics involved, if it wasn't one subset of Arabs created towards this end, it would be another.
> 
> These posters here who favor policies of Judenrein will resort to any ruse possible by way of masking their true intent, which is ultimately the destruction of the self determination of the Jewish people.  By crafting these made-up groups of Arabs (who are far less distinct from other Arabs as are New Yorkers to Texans) they hope to frame the discussion as big bad Jews against some small group of Arabs instead of Arab supremacists persecuting Jews. The sooner these made-up groups are given control, the sooner they can embark upon the Judenfrei policies these posters seek.
Click to expand...


Who favors Judenrein?


----------



## Coyote

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories – UN report*
> 30 September 2003 –
> Israel is using excessive force in the occupied Palestinian territory (OPT), violating human rights in the name of counter-terrorism, and its building of a “separation wall” and expansion of settlements bear the hallmarks of annexation and illegal “conquest,” according to a United Nations human rights report released today.
> United Nations News Centre - Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories UN report
> 
> 
> 
> BFD
> 
> *The UN also claimed that Israel is the number one violator of women in the world despite women having full rights.*
> 
> There was a woman prime minister, there are women as justices of the Supreme Court.
> 
> Let's compare this to the arab countries where women can't drive, vote, or even go out without a chaperone.
> 
> What the UN says is just vile hatred of Jews.
> 
> It's not an actual legitimate source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think they actually did say that - Fox said that.
> 
> The UN singled Israel out in regards to Palestinian women in on particular report: titled "Situation of and assistance to Palestinian women," Yemen, Saudi Arabia, all of those other countries have no bearing in regards to that.  No where can I find anything claiming Israel is the number one violator of women in the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Top violator of women s rights around the world It s Israel says UN Fox News
> 
> E CN.6 2015 L.2 of 13 March 2015
> 
> Once again, not Syria, Iran, Jordan, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the other countries that truely don't give women rights, they only mention Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a disconnect here.
> 
> There is what FOX says:  "top violator of women's rights around the world".
> 
> And there is what the UN report says, which isn't want FOX claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 17 pages of how palestinians women are victims, but Israel is named as responsible when it should be the PA and hamas.  From education to health to violence against women........these are issues of the palestinians factions, sects and governing bodies, not Israelis that should make changes.
Click to expand...


Where did the UN claim that Israel is the number one violator of women in the world?


----------



## irosie91

Coyote said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> BFD
> 
> *The UN also claimed that Israel is the number one violator of women in the world despite women having full rights.*
> 
> There was a woman prime minister, there are women as justices of the Supreme Court.
> 
> Let's compare this to the arab countries where women can't drive, vote, or even go out without a chaperone.
> 
> What the UN says is just vile hatred of Jews.
> 
> It's not an actual legitimate source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think they actually did say that - Fox said that.
> 
> The UN singled Israel out in regards to Palestinian women in on particular report: titled "Situation of and assistance to Palestinian women," Yemen, Saudi Arabia, all of those other countries have no bearing in regards to that.  No where can I find anything claiming Israel is the number one violator of women in the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Top violator of women s rights around the world It s Israel says UN Fox News
> 
> E CN.6 2015 L.2 of 13 March 2015
> 
> Once again, not Syria, Iran, Jordan, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the other countries that truely don't give women rights, they only mention Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a disconnect here.
> 
> There is what FOX says:  "top violator of women's rights around the world".
> 
> And there is what the UN report says, which isn't want FOX claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 17 pages of how palestinians women are victims, but Israel is named as responsible when it should be the PA and hamas.  From education to health to violence against women........these are issues of the palestinians factions, sects and governing bodies, not Israelis that should make changes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where did the UN claim that Israel is the number one violator of women in the world?
Click to expand...


must have been thrown in by the ambassador
from KHARTOUM      (anyone here remember the movie----way back----I think in the 60s-------I was nauseated for two weeks)        remember the MAHDI?---
If I remember correctly one of the signs of the MAHDI---
he got a space between his two front teeth----upper---
I wonder if the  MAHDI  in Iran got that orthodontic
problem.     I had a space as a child----for awhile-----it closed itself ----I am not the MAHDI


----------



## CMike

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan isn't their "home country".  These are people that have lived there for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan was their home country right after the 1948 war.  Or did you forget?  Oh yeah, no mention of how Jordan "occupied" the West Bank and annexed it into their country; or at least we do not dare mention it now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They lived in the area they live in now.  Not in what is called "Jordan".  If another country annexes your country -does that change your "home"?  No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who's they? The Arabs who live in Jordan are different than the Arabs who live in Jordan? How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with differences but what constitutes home.
Click to expand...

As far as I am concerned they are welcome to stay in Israel if they wish.

They need to take steps to become legal residents just like everyone else.

Otherwise they are free to return home to their palestinian state of Jordan.


----------



## CMike

Coyote said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> BFD
> 
> *The UN also claimed that Israel is the number one violator of women in the world despite women having full rights.*
> 
> There was a woman prime minister, there are women as justices of the Supreme Court.
> 
> Let's compare this to the arab countries where women can't drive, vote, or even go out without a chaperone.
> 
> What the UN says is just vile hatred of Jews.
> 
> It's not an actual legitimate source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think they actually did say that - Fox said that.
> 
> The UN singled Israel out in regards to Palestinian women in on particular report: titled "Situation of and assistance to Palestinian women," Yemen, Saudi Arabia, all of those other countries have no bearing in regards to that.  No where can I find anything claiming Israel is the number one violator of women in the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Top violator of women s rights around the world It s Israel says UN Fox News
> 
> E CN.6 2015 L.2 of 13 March 2015
> 
> Once again, not Syria, Iran, Jordan, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the other countries that truely don't give women rights, they only mention Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a disconnect here.
> 
> There is what FOX says:  "top violator of women's rights around the world".
> 
> And there is what the UN report says, which isn't want FOX claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 17 pages of how palestinians women are victims, but Israel is named as responsible when it should be the PA and hamas.  From education to health to violence against women........these are issues of the palestinians factions, sects and governing bodies, not Israelis that should make changes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where did the UN claim that Israel is the number one violator of women in the world?
Click to expand...

The only violator of women's rights.

I posted the link from the UN.


----------



## CMike

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again you ignore the hamas leadership that atates that gaza is not under occupation and has not been since August 2005. The UN being anti semitic does not see it this way.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't cherry-pick quotes out of context to prove the lies you tell.  The occupation of Gaza never ended.  They merely withdrew their troops from the immediate area, but still maintained effective control over the entire area ever since.  That satisfy's the legal definition of an occupation.
Click to expand...

Like how?


----------



## CMike

Coyote said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> UN fails to help women in need from syria, sudan or a dozen other countries, but it blames Israel for conditions in gaza?
> Hamas is the only one that can help the women in gaza, or make life harder for them.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you mad?
> 
> A population under occupation, cannot decide what life is for themselves, the occupiers make all the decisions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If they don't like being under the Israeli government they can go home to their home country of Jordan.
> 
> However, they have a PA/Hamas government now that makes decisions for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jordan isn't their "home country".  These are people that have lived there for generations.
Click to expand...

Actually it is their home country. 

After Jordan invaded israel, Jordan lost the west bank, thus the arabs still in that area are Jordanian.

BTW where were the calls for a "Palestinian State" when they were part of Jordan?


----------



## CMike

Billo_Really said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the ICC would attack anyone but Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel should be attacked.  They deserve to be attacked.
Click to expand...

And here Israeli Arabs have the highest standard of living in the middle east.

Go figure!


----------



## Billo_Really

CMike said:


> And here Israeli Arabs have the highest standard of living in the middle east.
> 
> Go figure!


Israeli Arabs are treated like 2nd class citizens.


----------



## Billo_Really

CMike said:


> Actually it is their home country.
> 
> After Jordan invaded israel, Jordan lost the west bank, thus the arabs still in that area are Jordanian.
> 
> BTW where were the calls for a "Palestinian State" when they were part of Jordan?


No, it is not their home country.

And since the end of WWII, you cannot lose territory in a war.


----------



## Billo_Really

CMike said:


> Like how?


What do you mean, "Like how?"?

If you _"effectively control"_ an area, then you have not left it.

If Israel did end the occupation of Gaza in 2005, how come Gazans are not able to leave without Israeli permission?


----------



## Billo_Really

Jroc said:


>


Shove that propaganda bullshit up your ass.  Hamas did not "seize control", they were elected in a democratic election.


----------



## CMike

Billo_Really said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like how?
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean, "Like how?"?
> 
> If you _"effectively control"_ an area, then you have not left it.
> 
> If Israel did end the occupation of Gaza in 2005, how come Gazans are not able to leave without Israeli permission?
Click to expand...

They can leave to Egypt whenever they want. They share a border.


----------



## CMike

Billo_Really said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it is their home country.
> 
> After Jordan invaded israel, Jordan lost the west bank, thus the arabs still in that area are Jordanian.
> 
> BTW where were the calls for a "Palestinian State" when they were part of Jordan?
> 
> 
> 
> No, it is not their home country.
> 
> And since the end of WWII, you cannot lose territory in a war.
Click to expand...

In almost every war territory is either won or lost.

In any case the territory belonged to either Jordan or Egypt. There never was an independent muslim palestinian state.


----------



## aris2chat

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan isn't their "home country".  These are people that have lived there for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan was their home country right after the 1948 war.  Or did you forget?  Oh yeah, no mention of how Jordan "occupied" the West Bank and annexed it into their country; or at least we do not dare mention it now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They lived in the area they live in now.  Not in what is called "Jordan".  If another country annexes your country -does that change your "home"?  No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who's they? The Arabs who live in Jordan are different than the Arabs who live in Jordan? How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with differences but what constitutes home.
Click to expand...


If you are born on a military base, is that your home or where ever you and your family happening to be at any one time?
If you are born in a hotel or apartment, is that home?  Even if you were only there a few days, weeks or months?
If someone is working in saudi but their parents are american, is saudi home?  Is america?  What state, what town?
If someone is a migrant farmer, or seasonal farm worker, is the farm(s) their family work home?  Which one?
If you live in a refugee camp and have never been to what ever farm your family might have lived on 50+ yrs ago, is the camp or the farm home?
If your parents or grandparents were born and lived in egypt till seeking work in the mandate, is the mandate your home or egypt, or the country where what ever camp you were born and lived in was located?
If you or your family did not have a legal deed to land, would any of the places you lived or worked your's to damand a right of return?  Why should you be allowed into the country let along to the home/hut,apartment your family was located while working there?

Arab/palestinians of the mandate or post mandate identified by tribe, as arab, some even as syrian, egyptian or jordanian, but palestinian was a foreign name of a region in the levant where the mandate governed, be it french or english mandate.  only at the end of the mandate were people/refugees who had lived and worked for a minimum of two years allowed to use the name palestinian for lack of any single identity.  It was expediant for the UN ho needed a reason for so many refugees and how to handle the situation.  It was not because they had a home or had lived generation in the same place in the land they had left.
When egypt and jordan controled G and the WB, why did they not create a state for the palestinians or close the camps and place them in homes there?  Why did the palestinians attempt a coup in jordan when the king offered to give them jordanian citizenship, the only place many had ever known.  Why would he offer Arafat the position of PM?

Palestinians are a fabrication, a meld of many groups and faith who's origins span europe and the middle east.  They did not have a shared culture, history or religion.  They had not had a state or government for themselves as palestinians.  They barely share arabic as common language, with several dialects.  For some, they did not even share arabic as a first language, but rather used it in a limited way for shopping and as a street language.  French, english, syriac, greek, russian, farci, turkic, armenian, kurdish were all spoken by various groups.

For a people or a state there is a need to have been some commonality that united them all.  Palestinians did not have that when the mandate ended.  Those that left at the urging of the arab state that were about to attack, their status as refugees became their commonality.  That is all they had or have.  The refugee did not even all come from what is now Israel.  They came from the WB and G as well before they left.  They did not all leave at the same time, they left in phases and moved from town or camp over time and as the political situation changed.

Some that left has sold their land, others had never owned land, still other might have turned over their property (rented, allowed to use or registered with/without paying taxes) to church, mosque or to someone else that did not leave.  There is not one story or group that was historically known as palestinian.




Just because palestinians might have lived and worked in the mandate, it does not make any place therein home.


----------



## aris2chat

CMike said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like how?
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean, "Like how?"?
> 
> If you _"effectively control"_ an area, then you have not left it.
> 
> If Israel did end the occupation of Gaza in 2005, how come Gazans are not able to leave without Israeli permission?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They can leave to Egypt whenever they want. They share a border.
Click to expand...


Egypt has closed the border except a few days last year.  Egypt most has opened the crossing to allow gazans in egypt to return to gaza, not the other way around.  School/college or medical might still be exceptions, but very limited.  Egypt and jordan require the correct papers to cross.  They don't have free movement to travel.  Probably easier to enter Israel on a day pass that jordan unless they have special work permits or prearranged permission.  Egypt is much harder and if the crossing are open there is not saying when they will be closed or what status they will have if stuck in egypt indefinably, and with expired passes illegally.


----------



## teddyearp

CMike said:


> BTW where were the calls for a "Palestinian State" when they were part of Jordan?



A point I have tried to make before.

Or in other words, ex-fucking-actly!


----------



## Billo_Really

CMike said:


> They can leave to Egypt whenever they want. They share a border.


I'm not talking about that.  A Gazan author was denied permission by Israeli authorities to travel to New York for a book signing engagement. If there was no occupation, should would've been able to attend that event.


----------



## Billo_Really

aris2chat said:


> Egypt has closed the border except a few days last year.  Egypt most has opened the crossing to allow gazans in egypt to return to gaza, not the other way around.  School/college or medical might still be exceptions, but very limited.  Egypt and jordan require the correct papers to cross.  They don't have free movement to travel.  Probably easier to enter Israel on a day pass that jordan unless they have special work permits or prearranged permission.  Egypt is much harder and if the crossing are open there is not saying when they will be closed or what status they will have if stuck in egypt indefinably, and with expired passes illegally.


If there is no occupation, why can't Gazans fish without being shot at?


----------



## Billo_Really

CMike said:


> In almost every war territory is either won or lost.
> 
> In any case the territory belonged to either Jordan or Egypt. There never was an independent muslim palestinian state.


It doesn't matter.  Since the end of WWII, it is illegal to hold onto land seized in a war.

If you think you can, then you are saying it was okay for Hitler to annex Poland.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> Who favors Judenrein?






If you support the notion that a person cannot build a house on a specific piece of property because they are Jewish, you are supporting Judenrein.

....which happens to be the position of just about every brainwashed Pally drone I've ever encountered. They prattle on with their Nazi-like rhetoric in one breath and then whine they are labeled an antisemite with the next.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who favors Judenrein?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you support the notion that a person cannot build a house on a specific piece of property because they are Jewish, you are supporting Judenrein.
> 
> ....which happens to be the position of just about every brainwashed Pally drone I've ever encountered. They prattle on with their Nazi-like rhetoric in one breath and then whine they are labeled an antisemite with the next.
Click to expand...


Ok.  How does it work if you support th enotion that a person cannot build a house on a specific piece of property because they are not Jewish?


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> Ok.  How does it work if you support th enotion that a person cannot build a house on a specific piece of property because they are not Jewish?



I wouldn't know. I have never offered such a viewpoint, neither have I seen it. 

Since there are so many Arabs living in Israel already, it certainly isn't a common Israeli attitude -- especially compared to the near unanimity of of Judenrein attitudes among Palestinian supporters.


----------



## Billo_Really

Dogmaphobe said:


> I wouldn't know. I have never offered such a viewpoint, neither have I seen it.
> 
> Since there are so many Arabs living in Israel already, it certainly isn't a common Israeli attitude -- especially compared to the near unanimity of of Judenrein attitudes among Palestinian supporters.


You haven't seen it, because you're too pussy to admit it.

Funny how you call people anti-Semites, yet you can't explain why?


----------



## CMike

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt has closed the border except a few days last year.  Egypt most has opened the crossing to allow gazans in egypt to return to gaza, not the other way around.  School/college or medical might still be exceptions, but very limited.  Egypt and jordan require the correct papers to cross.  They don't have free movement to travel.  Probably easier to enter Israel on a day pass that jordan unless they have special work permits or prearranged permission.  Egypt is much harder and if the crossing are open there is not saying when they will be closed or what status they will have if stuck in egypt indefinably, and with expired passes illegally.
> 
> 
> 
> If there is no occupation, why can't Gazans fish without being shot at?
Click to expand...

You assume a lot.

Proof?


----------



## CMike

Billo_Really said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> In almost every war territory is either won or lost.
> 
> In any case the territory belonged to either Jordan or Egypt. There never was an independent muslim palestinian state.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter.  Since the end of WWII, it is illegal to hold onto land seized in a war.
> 
> If you think you can, then you are saying it was okay for Hitler to annex Poland.
Click to expand...

Hitler lost.

Cite the law that you can't get land based on war?


----------



## CMike

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who favors Judenrein?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you support the notion that a person cannot build a house on a specific piece of property because they are Jewish, you are supporting Judenrein.
> 
> ....which happens to be the position of just about every brainwashed Pally drone I've ever encountered. They prattle on with their Nazi-like rhetoric in one breath and then whine they are labeled an antisemite with the next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok.  How does it work if you support th enotion that a person cannot build a house on a specific piece of property because they are not Jewish?
Click to expand...

Non existent.


----------



## CMike

aris2chat said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like how?
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean, "Like how?"?
> 
> If you _"effectively control"_ an area, then you have not left it.
> 
> If Israel did end the occupation of Gaza in 2005, how come Gazans are not able to leave without Israeli permission?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They can leave to Egypt whenever they want. They share a border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Egypt has closed the border except a few days last year.  Egypt most has opened the crossing to allow gazans in egypt to return to gaza, not the other way around.  School/college or medical might still be exceptions, but very limited.  Egypt and jordan require the correct papers to cross.  They don't have free movement to travel.  Probably easier to enter Israel on a day pass that jordan unless they have special work permits or prearranged permission.  Egypt is much harder and if the crossing are open there is not saying when they will be closed or what status they will have if stuck in egypt indefinably, and with expired passes illegally.
Click to expand...

Then blame Egypt and Jordan.


----------



## CMike

Billo_Really said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> And here Israeli Arabs have the highest standard of living in the middle east.
> 
> Go figure!
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli Arabs are treated like 2nd class citizens.
Click to expand...

Proof?


----------



## georgephillip

CMike said:


> They can leave to Egypt whenever they want. They share a border.


Why would you lie about the ability of Gaza's residents to enter Egypt "whenever they want?"


----------



## georgephillip

CMike said:


> That's my point.
> 
> I don't accept the anti-Israel crowd calling a Jew in housing a settlement anywhere in the world.


How do you feel about Jews building settlements on stolen land and then restricting all entry to those settlements to Jews only?


----------



## irosie91

georgephillip said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's my point.
> 
> I don't accept the anti-Israel crowd calling a Jew in housing a settlement anywhere in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you feel about Jews building settlements on stolen land and then restricting all entry to those settlements to Jews only?
Click to expand...


how about you define  "stolen"   ----or,  better yet----
LAND OWNERSHIP in the MIDDLE EAST over the past 3000 years.        While you are at it-----can you tell me how you feel about the fact that  Jews-----who as a group----owned the city of  YATHRIB----for about 1000 years are now disallowed from setting foot in that city?
There are lots of examples all over the world of restrictions on movement-------why is it the only issues that touche you are those in which  DA JOOOOOS are doing the restricting?     You made your biases too damned obvious


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok.  How does it work if you support th enotion that a person cannot build a house on a specific piece of property because they are not Jewish?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't know. I have never offered such a viewpoint, neither have I seen it.
> 
> Since there are so many Arabs living in Israel already, it certainly isn't a common Israeli attitude -- especially compared to the near unanimity of of Judenrein attitudes among Palestinian supporters.
Click to expand...


There are settlements and neighborhoods restricted to only Jews:  http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/segregation-of-jews-and-arabs-in-2010-israel-is-almost-absolute-1.321728

It may be a more common attitude then you think.


----------



## Coyote

CMike said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who favors Judenrein?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you support the notion that a person cannot build a house on a specific piece of property because they are Jewish, you are supporting Judenrein.
> 
> ....which happens to be the position of just about every brainwashed Pally drone I've ever encountered. They prattle on with their Nazi-like rhetoric in one breath and then whine they are labeled an antisemite with the next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok.  How does it work if you support th enotion that a person cannot build a house on a specific piece of property because they are not Jewish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Non existent.
Click to expand...


It exists:
15 000 new Jewish settlers in West Bank in 2014


----------



## georgephillip

irosie91 said:


> how about you define "stolen" ----or, better yet----
> LAND OWNERSHIP in the MIDDLE EAST over the past 3000 years.


How 'bout you explain why some JOOOOs have stolen most of Palestine over the past 65 years?




Hasbara WHINING about the biases of others is TOO funny.


----------



## irosie91

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> how about you define "stolen" ----or, better yet----
> LAND OWNERSHIP in the MIDDLE EAST over the past 3000 years.
> 
> 
> 
> How 'bout you explain why some JOOOOs have stolen most of Palestine over the past 65 years?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hasbara WHINING about the biases of others is TOO funny.[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> Your problem is typical of primitive illiterate pigs such as yourself who imagine that HISTORY began------200 years ago-----because 200 years is the period of time during which a few of your kin were literate.    WRONG----the history of the middle east is far older-----more like 3000 years old ------during which time jews were literate and owned the land LATER   (ie about 300 AD )  called
> PALESTINE  ------the land, jews,   NEVER SOLD to your  whore and pimp  forebears
Click to expand...


----------



## georgephillip

irosie91 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> how about you define "stolen" ----or, better yet----
> LAND OWNERSHIP in the MIDDLE EAST over the past 3000 years.
> 
> 
> 
> How 'bout you explain why some JOOOOs have stolen most of Palestine over the past 65 years?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hasbara WHINING about the biases of others is TOO funny.[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> Your problem is typical of primitive illiterate pigs such as yourself who imagine that HISTORY began------200 years ago-----because 200 years is the period of time during which a few of your kin were literate.    WRONG----the history of the middle east is far older-----more like 3000 years old ------during which time jews were literate and owned the land LATER   (ie about 300 AD )  called
> PALESTINE  ------the land, jews,   NEVER SOLD to your  whore and pimp  forebears
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## irosie91

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> how about you define "stolen" ----or, better yet----
> LAND OWNERSHIP in the MIDDLE EAST over the past 3000 years.
> 
> 
> 
> How 'bout you explain why some JOOOOs have stolen most of Palestine over the past 65 years?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hasbara WHINING about the biases of others is TOO funny.[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> Your problem is typical of primitive illiterate pigs such as yourself who imagine that HISTORY began------200 years ago-----because 200 years is the period of time during which a few of your kin were literate.    WRONG----the history of the middle east is far older-----more like 3000 years old ------during which time jews were literate and owned the land LATER   (ie about 300 AD )  called
> PALESTINE  ------the land, jews,   NEVER SOLD to your  whore and pimp  forebears
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



Georgie-----you get more and more pathetic day by day


----------



## georgephillip

CMike said:


> To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.
> 
> There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.
> 
> Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.
> 
> Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.
> 
> Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.
> 
> To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.


*Because Jews have demolished thousands of Arab homes in Palestine while Arabs have demolished 0 Jewish homes in Palestine since 1967.
"Homes Demolished in Israel and Palestine
0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians,
and over 28,000 Palestinian homes have been demolished
by Israel since 1967."
Israeli and Palestinian Homes Demolished since September 29 2000
*


----------



## aris2chat

georgephillip said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.
> 
> There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.
> 
> Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.
> 
> Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.
> 
> Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.
> 
> To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> *Because Jews have demolished thousands of Arab homes in Palestine while Arabs have demolished 0 Jewish homes in Palestine since 1967.
> "Homes Demolished in Israel and Palestine
> 0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians,
> and over 28,000 Palestinian homes have been demolished
> by Israel since 1967."
> Israeli and Palestinian Homes Demolished since September 29 2000*
Click to expand...


you forget the jordan occupation and the jewish places they destroyed.  All the land the jews owned in the WB before the war.


----------

