# Educate the ignorant about the need for guns!



## JimmyC (Feb 18, 2018)

Hey everybody. New to the forum. 

I will use my introduction to start a response and we will pick up from where the first responder ends up posting a reply.

It's time to speak out against gun control again, but first, God bless the victims and families in Florida. They will reside in the Kingdom of God forever.

I want everyone to have a response to the gun control issue that sparks conversation. Firm forceful commentary and belligerence will get us nowhere. So I have questions for you:
What happened to 7,000,000Ukrainian's in 1939? 
Were the 6,000,000 murdered Jews of WWII armed before they were taken to death camps?
What happened to unarmed Russians throughout their history?

When you are faced with why you support gun ownership, simply ask these questions. If you don't know the answers, to one in particular, look them up and learn. I know I was surprised by the first question. It was never taught in school history class. I lived to the ripe age of 55 before I learned about the Ukrainian incident. I was shocked how 7,000,000 people can die at the hands of an evil government and it is one story that is still suppressed today.

Unarmed people are targets for evil. Guns should be always referred to as finely crafted machines. They are last line to defend ones self against oppression and aggression but are more often used for sport. Young people are being taught nonsense about "The Gun Culture". They are being taught by the U.N. led liberal agenda that gun enthusiasts are all stupid rednecks that lust over killing. Absurd! Guns are machines that I like the same as I like cars and motorcycles. I like to drive cool cars, motorcycles and shoot guns as a skill developing sport.

I was able to take a .22 rifle to school when I grew up. Guns were not a sexy mystery to be used to kill others. We were taught gun safety and hunting safety in school. I went everywhere with a .22 rifle and a fishing pole. I never had the desire to use it for evil.

The breakdown of the Family Unit - Societal Structure is what led us to this point. A lack of parents shaping a child with moral ethics and proper behavior. It took 2 generations to spoil the apples and it will take two, at least, to fix it. WITHOUT SWEEPING CHANGES IN THE WAY WE LIVE AND WORK, THE PROBLEM WILL GET WORSE!

Thanks for listening and start a conversation!


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## Hugo Furst (Feb 18, 2018)




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## petro (Feb 18, 2018)

Welcome...Good post.
Problem is the media is only covering one side of the issue and that is demonizing gun owners, shouting feel good platitudes, pushing an agenda  without any self reflection of a society where civility has broken down. In fact the media has pushed this division.
Most in media are leftists who believe governments are able to solve all issues and deny the possibility that our government is kept in check by an armed citizenry. They are fully willing to give up certain rights under the guise of safety. They now see the founding fathers as racist slavers.
When we erase our common history even with its warts and flaws, we lose our identity as a country that celebrated individual liberty.
Something has changed in our culture for the last 40 years and leftists will not be a part of self reflection as they would be forced to admit that their policies are in fact a large part of the problem.
They will continue to blame guns and the NRA.


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## JimmyC (Feb 18, 2018)

petro said:


> Welcome...Good post.
> Problem is the media is only covering one side of the issue and that is demonizing gun owners, shouting feel good platitudes, pushing an agenda  without any self reflection of a society where civility has broken down. In fact the media has pushed this division.
> Most in media are leftists who believe governments are able to solve all issues and deny the possibility that our government is kept in check by an armed citizenry. They are fully willing to give up certain rights under the guise of safety. They now see the founding fathers as racist slavers.
> When we erase our common history even with its warts and flaws, we lose our identity as a country that celebrated individual liberty.
> ...



Problem is, why is the media only reporting one side? When faced with questions you cant make sense of, assuming you are not a blind liberal, stop, turn around and place yourself in the shoes of people with an opposite agenda. A revolutionary if you will. One of our founding fathers quoted " the next revolution in America will be of the Government against the people".

Lets make the case:
The United Nations has a world dominating agenda that George H. W. Bush signed us into in (1974) I think it's 74.. If anyone has not heard of Agenda 2030, look it up. Formerly known as Agenda 21, it is a plan to control population growth and hold humanity accountable for total environmental control by the year 2030. If you are savvy you can find it in the U.N. website. You will be able to see all too familiar names that are signed into the plan. President Regan was the last delay for the U.N. plan. Agenda 21 was recently updated to Agenda 2030 because it could not be accomplished in time. Any delay, caused by freak election results they cant control, sets back their plan by however many years a Patriotic conservative president is in office. Anyway - disarming innocent people is also a desired action. Disarming Australia was a huge win for the plan. The U.S. is the last stronghold.

Did you know that the Pacific Trade Act that Trump rejected would have put the Pacific rim countries in control of our trade in the world! Think about that. We would have no say so  in cases we don't agree with. What if all those countries demanded we disarm America or they would stop trading with us! Plausible? 

Now knowing that one scenario, there are others, you can see that the media is being manipulated by those committed to that agenda. YOU MAY THINK IT'S A FANTASY BUT I ASSURE YOU IT IS NOT. Look it up and research it yourself. Look up George Soros and Aleksander Dugan. They are the main puppet masters. Once you read their books you will know that (Hitler like) mad men still exist. Their game is to create havoc in societies and weaken them. They took down Greece like knocking over a sleeping cow.

We are in the midst of a revolution and most people are unaware. The media is bought and paid for by the revolutionaries. They keep us happy by feeding us propaganda. The sheep keep on sheeping. Baaaaaaaa.


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## cnm (Feb 18, 2018)

JimmyC said:


> Did you know that the Pacific Trade Act that Trump rejected would have put the Pacific rim countries in control of our trade in the world! Think about that.


I've thought about that and decided I've entered a twilight zone thread.


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## JimmyC (Feb 18, 2018)

Lets take this out of this thread and continue elsewhere. Any suggestions?


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## JimmyC (Feb 18, 2018)

cnm said:


> JimmyC said:
> 
> 
> > Did you know that the Pacific Trade Act that Trump rejected would have put the Pacific rim countries in control of our trade in the world! Think about that.
> ...


 Like I said look it all up for yourself and put it all together.
If I'm wrong on something I will take the hit.
Back to the main subject, Gun control.


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## Windparadox (Feb 18, 2018)

`
I live in the boonies. My nearest neighbor is about 5 miles from my house. My land is mainly wooded. I also hunt, mainly deer. My hunting rifle. And, me and my family have venison all year round. That's one reason I have a gun. I have a 22 I use for squirrels and other nuisance critters. I have a hand gun I sometimes carry when I travel. I've a Wisconsin CCL. I also have a different hand gun I carry when I go wilderness camping where having a larger caliber hand gun is advantageous against potentially dangerous and predatory animals. 

A gun is a tool. I use mine a lot and am proficient. I see no reason to glorify a tool.
`


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## JimmyC (Feb 18, 2018)

Gun Control. There is a lot to discuss here. There is more to it than Democrats vs. Republicans. A lot more!


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Feb 18, 2018)

JimmyC said:


> Hey everybody. New to the forum.
> 
> I will use my introduction to start a response and we will pick up from where the first responder ends up posting a reply.
> 
> ...


Wrong. 

This fails as a strawman fallacy. 

There is no "liberal agenda" hostile to gun owners, the notion is a ridiculous lie.

And your last paragraph is wrongheaded nonsense,  sophomoric and inane.


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## JimmyC (Feb 18, 2018)

Windparadox said:


> `
> I live in the boonies. My nearest neighbor is about 5 miles from my house. My land is mainly wooded. I also hunt, mainly deer. And, me and my family have venison all year round. That's one reason I have a gun. I also have a 22 I use for squirrels and other nuisance critters. I also have a hand gun I sometimes carry. I have a Wisconsin CCL. I also have a hand gun I carry when I go wilderness camping where having a larger caliber hand gun is advantageous against potentially dangerous and predatory animals.
> 
> A gun is a tool. I use mine a lot and am proficient. I see no reason to glorify a tool.
> `


I agree.


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## JimmyC (Feb 18, 2018)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> JimmyC said:
> 
> 
> > Hey everybody. New to the forum.
> ...


In your opinion Sir.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Feb 18, 2018)

From the OP:

“I want everyone to have a response to the gun control issue that sparks conversation. Firm forceful commentary and belligerence will get us nowhere. So I have questions for you:

What happened to 7,000,000Ukrainian's in 1939?

Were the 6,000,000 murdered Jews of WWII armed before they were taken to death camps?

What happened to unarmed Russians throughout their history?”

Wrong again.

Nazi ‘gun confiscation’ is a myth.

‘Whenever the gun-control debate heats up in the United States — usually after an all-too-common mass shooting — guns rights activists often cite Adolf Hitler’s Nazi Germany gun laws as an example of the dangers of gun control. They claim that these laws, enacted by Hitler himself, disarmed the German people, including minority groups, and made them more vulnerable to oppression and eventually the Holocaust. This historical “fact” often is trumpeted far and wide as an example of what could happen to America with stricter gun-control laws. The problem with that? It’s mostly a myth.’

Adolf Hitler and the Myth of Nazi Gun Control Laws

Clearly the only ignorance is that of the thread author.


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## JimmyC (Feb 18, 2018)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> From the OP:
> 
> “I want everyone to have a response to the gun control issue that sparks conversation. Firm forceful commentary and belligerence will get us nowhere. So I have questions for you:
> 
> ...


You sir are part of the problem. You insult and reject what others say, no questions. This is a conversation not a beat down for arrogant bigots. To deny that disarming a populous will embolden fascist extremists is ignorant on your part, in my opinion. I would be glad to debate it though. With all due respect Sir.


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## JimmyC (Feb 18, 2018)

JimmyC said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> > From the OP:
> ...


I'm going to watch the Daytona 500. Good bye for now.


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## cnm (Feb 18, 2018)

JimmyC said:


> To deny that disarming a populous will embolden fascist extremists is ignorant on your part, in my opinion.


Yes, but you inhabit the twilight zone. For example, what data have you that fascist extremists have been emboldened in the UK and Australia?


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## IsaacNewton (Feb 18, 2018)

The 2nd amendment says 'well regulated'. Don't like it? Change the Constitution. 

It's time to get these guns engineered for war out of the hands of the public. Nobody, and let's be clear because right wing propaganda loves to wail and flail their arms on this, nobody is calling for confiscating all guns. The only people that even say that are gun lickers. 

Guns need to be well regulated as put forth in the Constitution. End of story.


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## playtime (Feb 18, 2018)

i live in CT.  due to common sense, we have banned assault rifles & passed a bill that rejects the ability to get a gun if  domestic violence has ever been an issue. guess what?   we still have the right to legally own a variety of guns & have them  in our home for hunting & protection. 

just not the unnecessary weapons of mass destruction.


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## Hossfly (Feb 18, 2018)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> From the OP:
> 
> “I want everyone to have a response to the gun control issue that sparks conversation. Firm forceful commentary and belligerence will get us nowhere. So I have questions for you:
> 
> ...


I beg to differ.Hitler did have gun control and I'm surprised the US Liberal Progressive Pukes haven't tried his method.Then again, it wouldn't work here because there would be piles and stacks of dead, rotting liberal progressive corpses dotting the landscape, PBUH.
Hitler's plan was simple and effective. He required everyone with a gun to join a sporting club or a hunting club. All firearms were required to be locked in an arms room and none could be kept at home. Each club had a staff of NAZIs who kept control and people could use their guns but only at the shooting ranges or hunting clubs. Then they had to turn them back to the arms rooms See how easy and effective it was?
In my wife's home town people still have the same shooting club and hunting club that was used during the 30s and 40s. The arms rooms are still there and many of the rifles, shotguns and pistols are still in the racks and that part of the clubs are little museums. All her relatives have the same little museums in their towns. One reason for the gun control was the fact that Hitler hated the town of Heidenheim/Brenz and the state of Bad Wuertemburg because when he visited that town the people would not give him the Nazi salute. (There are pictures) Another reason is that a local resident, Georg Elser, booby trapped a nightclub in Munich that Hitler left early after a speech. Hitler then had all the men in the county drafted and sent to the Russian front. My wife's father and 2 uncles were killed there along with a number of other young men. So much for your non-confiscation.


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## JimmyC (Feb 19, 2018)

IsaacNewton said:


> The 2nd amendment says 'well regulated'. Don't like it? Change the Constitution.
> 
> It's time to get these guns engineered for war out of the hands of the public. Nobody, and let's be clear because right wing propaganda loves to wail and flail their arms on this, nobody is calling for confiscating all guns. The only people that even say that are gun lickers.
> 
> Guns need to be well regulated as put forth in the Constitution. End of story.


I hear your concern but the Constitution speaks of a well regulated Militia, not regulated arms. A militia is a civilian base of armed citizens. They used the word regulated. Today we would say well trained. The National Guard assumes that role today. It's original intention was to arm the citizens because governments have proven to be progressively oppressive for hundreds of years. The right to bear arms "shall not be infringed" for that reason.
I do believe that if we went back to the way it was when I grew up we all would have a better understanding of guns. Until we all come to terms with our decayed morality, failed gun education, broken family structure, violent imagery, and sense of personal responsibility, we will erode into a society of thugs. What would Hollywood do without Guns?
Remember a gun is a gun. What it looks like is irrelevant. I can find you several hunting rifles that function the same as an AR15. If I were to change out some parts I could make it look like a military weapon. Military weapons are usually fully automatic or "select fire". The AR15 is a semi automatic making it unlike the military version. An AR is just a modular platform that uses no wood.
I respect your opinion though.


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## Hossfly (Feb 19, 2018)

JimmyC said:


> Hey everybody. New to the forum.
> 
> I will use my introduction to start a response and we will pick up from where the first responder ends up posting a reply.
> 
> ...


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## Spotted Drongo (Feb 20, 2018)

I live in a remote area. I have to face tiger snakes, brown snakes, funnel web spiders, redback spiders, big rabbits, hares, foxes, next door neighbours cows.blistering sun.drought.
But I have a formidible weapon--It's called a JACK RUSSEL TERRIER! I don't own a gun. I live in a civil society,


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## Hossfly (Feb 20, 2018)

Spotted Drongo said:


> I live in a remote area. I have to face tiger snakes, brown snakes, funnel web spiders, redback spiders, big rabbits, hares, foxes, next door neighbours cows.blistering sun.drought.
> But I have a formidible weapon--It's called a JACK RUSSEL TERRIER! I don't own a gun. I live in a civil society,


About how long does it take for your Jack Russell Terrier to rip out the throat of a tiger?


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## Spotted Drongo (Feb 26, 2018)

About 20 milliseconds on a good day. He's so quick. Of course if he teamed up with the one your illustrating
it would take a lot less.
All they would have do is grab the striped puddy tat one on each ear and give it a good shake.
I've seen big lions tremble in fear when I take our Jack to the zoo. And the poor old  elephants!...well enough said
Of course our Jack- the -lad just doesn,t know when to stop and occasionally starts to pant a bit.
That's when I have to step in drag him off..


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## JoeB131 (Feb 26, 2018)

JimmyC said:


> So I have questions for you:
> What happened to 7,000,000Ukrainian's in 1939?
> Were the 6,000,000 murdered Jews of WWII armed before they were taken to death camps?



Okay, if you are going to start out lying, there's really no point to talking to you.  

Point was, there were plenty of guns available in those places.  They just didn't do any good. The Ukrainians mostly died of famine, not being shot. 



JimmyC said:


> When you are faced with why you support gun ownership, simply ask these questions. If you don't know the answers, to one in particular, look them up and learn. I know I was surprised by the first question. It was never taught in school history class. I lived to the ripe age of 55 before I learned about the Ukrainian incident. I was shocked how 7,000,000 people can die at the hands of an evil government and it is one story that is still suppressed today.



Well, whatever you heard was probably wrong. The reason why the Ukrainian experience was so miserable was because there were a shitload of guns lying around after WWI and the Russian Civil War, and people on all sides were murdering each other.  that was further compounded by a famine that starved millions.  It wasn't a case of one side not having guns. It was a case of one side with guns and tanks winning.  



JimmyC said:


> I was able to take a .22 rifle to school when I grew up. Guns were not a sexy mystery to be used to kill others. We were taught gun safety and hunting safety in school. I went everywhere with a .22 rifle and a fishing pole. I never had the desire to use it for evil.



Funny, I'm 55 and I never remember this magical time when kids brought guns into school.  OR when they taught us "gun safety" or any of that sort of thing.  

But for sake of argument, this is a 1950's hunting rifle. 






And this is the AR-15 Nikolas Cruz brought into Parkland two weeks ago. 






See the difference?


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## WinterBorn (Feb 26, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> JimmyC said:
> 
> 
> > So I have questions for you:
> ...




Your knowledge of firearms is indeed astounding.

But just to help you learn a bit more, that "1950s Hunting rifle" is not even a rifle.  It is a *semi-auto shotgun* made by Remington.  And whats more, it was *introduced by Remington in 1987*.

Perhaps you could sit quietly while the grownups have a conversation.   Or at least stick with topics on which you have a modicum of knowledge.


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## Moonglow (Feb 26, 2018)

WillHaftawaite said:


>


You don't know what is not to be done in an intro thread?


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## Moonglow (Feb 26, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > JimmyC said:
> ...


What public school teaches gun safety?


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## Moonglow (Feb 26, 2018)

JimmyC said:


> Lets take this out of this thread and continue elsewhere. Any suggestions?


You are the person who posted it here...


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## Moonglow (Feb 26, 2018)

JimmyC said:


> cnm said:
> 
> 
> > JimmyC said:
> ...


An into thread is not the place for anything more than saying, "Hi, I'm here don't ask if I'm queer"...


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## WinterBorn (Feb 26, 2018)

Moonglow said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Plenty of them did at one time.   It was common.


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## Moonglow (Feb 26, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...


Not where I went to school but then again by the time were were  eight we had done been taught by family members...


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## Humorme (Feb 26, 2018)

JimmyC said:


> Hey everybody. New to the forum.
> 
> I will use my introduction to start a response and we will pick up from where the first responder ends up posting a reply.
> 
> ...



Before I read the balance of this thread, I wanted to say things I predict are NOT talked about in this thread.  Before we start, I took a .22 to school to go target shooting with.  The bus driver asked me if I had any bullets in it.  I said, "no sir, they're here in the box."  He said, okay, but just keep that stuff in your locker at school.  Times have changed.

I don't think of the right to keep and bear Arms as much of need.  It's more of a Duty, an Obligation, and a Responsibility.  The liberals would have you believe that the founders broke away from a tyrannical government, went to war against it, but would leave you and I without that option should this government become a dictatorship - and it is almost there now.

Unable to come up with proposals that do not include gun bans and so forth, the right has caved in and are about to lose this battle.  So, maybe the right should be informed.  

Our country was built on the foundational principle that you have an *unalienable* Right to life.  It's damn near impossible to get people to understand what that word *unalienable* means.  But, while the government has the* power* to take away guns, they lack the *authority*.  Within that Right to Life, the founders believed that you had the Right to defend that Life (and Liberty) with the best means possible.  So, the Second Amendment has not changed; neither should its intent be changed.


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## Humorme (Feb 26, 2018)

petro said:


> Welcome...Good post.
> Problem is the media is only covering one side of the issue and that is demonizing gun owners, shouting feel good platitudes, pushing an agenda  without any self reflection of a society where civility has broken down. In fact the media has pushed this division.
> Most in media are leftists who believe governments are able to solve all issues and deny the possibility that our government is kept in check by an armed citizenry. They are fully willing to give up certain rights under the guise of safety. They now see the founding fathers as racist slavers.
> When we erase our common history even with its warts and flaws, we lose our identity as a country that celebrated individual liberty.
> ...




It is idiotic to blame the NRA, but the right is failing to offer solutions that do not include gun control.  So they are agreeing with the banners by default.


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## Humorme (Feb 26, 2018)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> JimmyC said:
> 
> 
> > Hey everybody. New to the forum.
> ...



Bull Freaking Crap.  Not only is there an agenda, the liberals send in their trolls whenever someone talks about solutions to firearm deaths that do not end with suggestions for gun* control*.


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## Humorme (Feb 26, 2018)

IsaacNewton said:


> The 2nd amendment says 'well regulated'. Don't like it? Change the Constitution.
> 
> It's time to get these guns engineered for war out of the hands of the public. Nobody, and let's be clear because right wing propaganda loves to wail and flail their arms on this, nobody is calling for confiscating all guns. The only people that even say that are gun lickers.
> 
> Guns need to be well regulated as put forth in the Constitution. End of story.




The Second Amendment in no way, shape, fashion or form can be interpreted the way you claim:


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## OldLady (Feb 26, 2018)

Let's hope JimmyC has taken this thread into the forums, where it belongs.  I read the Intro threads for a break, not another in your face gun lovers rant.

Welcome, Jimmy, btw.  We'll probably be chatting.


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## TNHarley (Feb 26, 2018)

Moonglow said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


Mine did. It was 8th grade. It was a full hunters course. They even let us shoot shotguns after we passed the test.


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## Hugo Furst (Feb 26, 2018)

TNHarley said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...


we had skeet shooting during gym


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## Dogmaphobe (Feb 26, 2018)

Moonglow said:


> JimmyC said:
> 
> 
> > cnm said:
> ...




Are you queer?

I see you missed one of your comrades calling him a liar, which is also against the rules here. I guess that's o.k. with you, though, since  birds of a feather trumps all else.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 27, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Your knowledge of firearms is indeed astounding.
> 
> But just to help you learn a bit more, that "1950s Hunting rifle" is not even a rifle. It is a *semi-auto shotgun* made by Remington. And whats more, it was *introduced by Remington in 1987*.
> 
> Perhaps you could sit quietly while the grownups have a conversation. Or at least stick with topics on which you have a modicum of knowledge.



Maybe you can stop masturbating to gun pictures...


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## JoeB131 (Feb 27, 2018)

Humorme said:


> Before I read the balance of this thread, I wanted to say things I predict are NOT talked about in this thread. Before we start, I took a .22 to school to go target shooting with. The bus driver asked me if I had any bullets in it. I said, "no sir, they're here in the box." He said, okay, but just keep that stuff in your locker at school. Times have changed.



Yes, times have changed.  We have dozens of school shooting since then. 

Just like times changed after some asshole poisoned some Tylenol and killed 7 people.  Everyone changed how they packaged products to prevent tampering.  



Humorme said:


> I don't think of the right to keep and bear Arms as much of need. It's more of a Duty, an Obligation, and a Responsibility. The liberals would have you believe that the founders broke away from a tyrannical government, went to war against it, but would leave you and I without that option should this government become a dictatorship - and it is almost there now.



Okay, except the Founding Slave Rapists didn't break away from a tyrannical government, they broke away from a benevolent parliamentary democracy that wouldn't give them what they wanted and insisted they help pay for a war they instigated. They saved us from the horrors of being Canadian.  

Oh, yeah. Canada had 172 Gun related homicides compared to our 11,000.  

Gun ownership does not stop dictatorship.  Gun ownership was very common in Germany before and after the Nazis took power. (Guns were only limited after the Allies confiscated them after the war.) In fact, all widespread guns do is make a police state more inevitable, because we give the police more powers to protect us from the crazies. 

40% of gun sales are to government agencies.   That should tell you a lot.


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## WinterBorn (Feb 27, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Your knowledge of firearms is indeed astounding.
> ...



I won't stop laughing out loud when you make such a fool of yourself.    You post a pic saying it is a 1950s hunting rifle, and it is a autoloading shotgun introduced in 1987?   That was fucking hilarious!


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## undertherqadar (Feb 27, 2018)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Were the 6,000,000 murdered Jews of WWII armed before they were taken to death camps?


the op is an ignoramus , jews never had a culture of guns and did not carry or obsess about guns


The Hitler gun control lie


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## frigidweirdo (Feb 27, 2018)

JimmyC said:


> Hey everybody. New to the forum.
> 
> I will use my introduction to start a response and we will pick up from where the first responder ends up posting a reply.
> 
> ...



The US has a lot of problems because the politicians don't care, the voters don't seem to care, and the rich who control the whole show are getting richer by the year. 

Until you change those problems, nothing will change. 

However you're talking about millions of people dying. Well, in the Ukraine they died of starvation. 

In China, many, many more died under Mao, again of starvation. 

The Nazis had guns and they killed the Jews, who didn't have guns. But would the Jews have been better off with guns?

They had guns in the Warsaw Ghetto and they fought back and.... and... they died there too. In fact the Poles had guns, they got invaded, Czechoslovakia had guns, got invaded, France had guns, got invaded, and so on.

What you've done is cherry pick a few things and then tried to make a complex view with very little information. Well, you failed.


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## Humorme (Feb 27, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Humorme said:
> 
> 
> > Before I read the balance of this thread, I wanted to say things I predict are NOT talked about in this thread. Before we start, I took a .22 to school to go target shooting with. The bus driver asked me if I had any bullets in it. I said, "no sir, they're here in the box." He said, okay, but just keep that stuff in your locker at school. Times have changed.
> ...



Damn, you're grasping at straws.  

First up, when you make comparisons, compare apples to apples.

Canada is not the world's police force and I don't see you getting flooded with immigrants though last I heard, your country opened the door that Trump is closing.  

Gun ownership DOES, in fact, stop tyrannical dictators.  If you'd like to debate that one, start a thread and invite me.  You won't because you know better.

The one thing you are close to is that "crazies" are what brings about a *POLICE STATE*.  America has no mental health protocol.  We give mass shooters a debit card, a prescription for SSRIs and then let nature take its course so people like you can make irresponsible statements about the Second Amendment.


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## Hugo Furst (Feb 27, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Humorme said:
> 
> 
> > Before I read the balance of this thread, I wanted to say things I predict are NOT talked about in this thread. Before we start, I took a .22 to school to go target shooting with. The bus driver asked me if I had any bullets in it. I said, "no sir, they're here in the box." He said, okay, but just keep that stuff in your locker at school. Times have changed.
> ...



Hard to take you seriously when you post crap like:


JoeB131 said:


> Okay, except the Founding Slave Rapists


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## JoeB131 (Feb 28, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> won't stop laughing out loud when you make such a fool of yourself. You post a pic saying it is a 1950s hunting rifle, and it is a autoloading shotgun introduced in 1987? That was fucking hilarious!



whatever guy, go and make love to your gun.. 



WillHaftawaite said:


> Hard to take you seriously when you post crap like:



Why? 

They owned slaves.  In the case of Thomas Jefferson, they had sex with their slaves.  

Since a slave can't consent to sex or refuse to have it with her master, that's rape. 

Founding Slave Rapists.  A bunch of guys who talked about "All Men Being Equal" and then proudly went home and exploited and raped black people who had no say in the matter.  




Humorme said:


> Damn, you're grasping at straws.
> 
> First up, when you make comparisons, compare apples to apples.
> 
> Canada is not the world's police force and I don't see you getting flooded with immigrants though last I heard, your country opened the door that Trump is closing.



Uh, dude, I'm American. 



Humorme said:


> Gun ownership DOES, in fact, stop tyrannical dictators. If you'd like to debate that one, start a thread and invite me. You won't because you know better.



I don't start threads to debate single points.  My point Stands. Germany had widespread gun ownership. Not one "Good German" said, "Hey, you can't take Goldstein to the Concentration Camp, he's my buddy!"  Russia. Whole shitloads of guns. 

Usually, dictatorships start when people get fed up with the chaos and want someone to clamp down on it. The kind of chaos you have when you are regularly wheeling out dead kids in school. 



Humorme said:


> The one thing you are close to is that "crazies" are what brings about a *POLICE STATE*. America has no mental health protocol. We give mass shooters a debit card, a prescription for SSRIs and then let nature take its course so people like you can make irresponsible statements about the Second Amendment.



Irresponsible is letting the crazies buy guns to start with. Of course, most of the crazies are affluent white people whose parents coddled them.  Black folks would get busted the minute they made a Facebook post.


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## Moonglow (Feb 28, 2018)

> They will reside in the Kingdom of God forever.



Proof?


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## Moonglow (Feb 28, 2018)

JimmyC said:


> petro said:
> 
> 
> > Welcome...Good post.
> ...


How was GW Bush able to sign any agreement with the UN as a CIA man?


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## Marion Morrison (Feb 28, 2018)

Welcome, and apparently you missed this:

Well dang, when did the rules change? It used to be for "Hi, how are ya?" not discussing topics.


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## Moonglow (Feb 28, 2018)

WillHaftawaite said:


>


Dotards agree 90% of the time...


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## IsaacNewton (Feb 28, 2018)

JimmyC said:


> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> > The 2nd amendment says 'well regulated'. Don't like it? Change the Constitution.
> ...



Then only if you are in a militia can you own a firearm. 

Sorry I know gun huggers want it both ways but it isn't going to fly. Either you have to be in a well regulated militia, or all firearms are to be well regulated. And let's be honest everyone knows it says 'a well regulated militia, the right of the people to bear arms'. For the time it was written a militia was a very effective deterrent to any government. That is what they meant and that is what they said. But cons are busy lawyering the Constitution so it fits their bs today. Just as they lawyer the bible to make Jesus love the rich and spit on the poor. 

Reality isn't high on the list of most of these people that talk about 'the 2nd amendment'.


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## Marion Morrison (Feb 28, 2018)

OP jumps right into the fray without meeting the mascot:


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## WinterBorn (Feb 28, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > won't stop laughing out loud when you make such a fool of yourself. You post a pic saying it is a 1950s hunting rifle, and it is a autoloading shotgun introduced in 1987? That was fucking hilarious!
> ...



Awwww, aren't you cute.  You make a post thinking it will show how smart you are, and it makes you look like an idiot.  You claim to know something about guns, but you obviously don't.

And when your idiocy (1950s hunting rifle = 1987 semi-auto shotgun?) you try and save face by saying I have a gun fetish?  Because I can tell a shotgun from a rifle?   Oh, and I'll give you a hint, the shotgun model # is 11-87.  Because it was introduced in '87.


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## Humorme (Feb 28, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > won't stop laughing out loud when you make such a fool of yourself. You post a pic saying it is a 1950s hunting rifle, and it is a autoloading shotgun introduced in 1987? That was fucking hilarious!
> ...



The left has the absolute weakest arguments than any subject when it comes to gun control.  They tell you how much they care about kids, but put alternative ideas on the table and they reject them.  Having been *IN* the fight longer than the majority of my critics have been alive, I've witnessed more than they can imagine - and with gun control, not one life was saved.  But, we go through the same B.S. routine with every Republican president:

A crisis happens, the Democrats rally the troops to the cause, and the gun control "_debate_" is on.  Republicans, being the world's *worst* negotiators and most being dullards, they cave in to a portion of the suggested gun control argument.  And what the Democrats cannot do on their own, they con the Republicans into doing it.

At the end of the day, there is *NO* excuse for having crazy people running around on the streets of America with no supervision.  In the case of Nickolas Cruz, the lack of law enforcement is what caused this tragedy.  To blame guns is dishonest and idiotic.  All the laws in the world don't help when those in charge aren't doing the jobs the taxpayers pay them for.


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## Hossfly (Feb 28, 2018)

IsaacNewton said:


> JimmyC said:
> 
> 
> > IsaacNewton said:
> ...



Did you know that military retirees are the core of the militia? Google it. 

Military retirees are subject to recall to active duty until age 75. That makes us a "well regulated militia." Ain't that a bitch for you and the rest of the gun grabbers? 

Another interesting fact. We have a large military Reserve and National Guard. And another thing: Military enlistees and draftees have a 6 year obligation once they raise their right hand, active duty and reserve combined. Therefore we always have a "well regulated militia."

Now, what is that "well regulated militia" B.S. babble all about? Lefties need to get some smarts.


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## Humorme (Feb 28, 2018)

Hossfly said:


> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> > JimmyC said:
> ...



"_*All scripture* is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:_"  II Timothy 3 : 16

The OP wants an education in why we have a need for guns.  So, the criticisms of the left are to try and capitalize on tragedies and then make up terms to bolster their false claims.  The "_gun culture_" accusation is popular right now.  The reality is gun grabbers hate our culture.  Yesterday, Rush Limbaugh busted a caller and got down to the truth.  In the end, the caller was against white Christians.  And so I opened this little rant with a Bible verse.  Since America was founded by white men and most of them were professing Christians, the critics of the Second Amendment deserve a full answer.

In the Bible, there is the account of how Lot (Abraham's nephew) was taken hostage.  Someone escaped the captors and told Abraham.  And then Abraham took 318 men, went to Lot's rescue, and freed him.  (see Genesis 14: 1 - 17)  

If you don't like the Bible as a religious book, think about the story as an historical one.

In Luke 11 : 21 the New Testament says:  "_When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace_"

Being armed was important enough that Jesus told his apostles that they would carry a sword (the same tool used by Caesar's SWAT team) even if they had to hock their robes to do it.

"_Then said he _(Jesus)  _to them, But now, he that has a purse, let him take it, and likewise his money: and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one._"  Luke 22: 36

Our forefathers did not come by the decision to separate from King George without a *LOT* of debate, discussion, prayer and meditation.  They had to reconcile Romans 13: 1 which reads: "_Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God_" with the need to free themselves from tyranny.

The book _The Light and the Glory _(by Peter Marshall and David Manuel) puts the founders dilemma into perspective:

"When does tyranny become tyranny?  Is there a time it is not only morally correct but the will of God for one to resist legally constituted authority?  When does the "Lord's anointed " lose his anointing?"

Turns out the answer was found in Galatians 5 : 1 which reads: _"For freedom, Christ has set us free; stand fast, therefore, and do not submit to a yoke of slavery_."  

It was on the morning of 19 April 1775 that citizens, armed and ready, stood at Lexington Green and the shot heard around the world was fired.  

And so the point of this post is to show that armed citizens were a part of the reason America was born in the first place.  And, we became the greatest nation in the annals of recorded history - the nation that represented Freedom and Liberty... things the anti-gunners would take a giant dump on because they do not understand the foundational principles of this nation, the road we took to get there, nor what it takes to preserve Liberty.   

Make no mistake.  The terminology like "_gun culture_" is a shy way of saying white men with Bibles and guns.  The irrational argument regarding guns when children are dying in larger numbers over their parents drinking addiction, drug use and second hand smoke  is a witness to what this is *really* about.

The time has come when the anti-gun side should have a real discussion about guns and their role in American society.  It's time the anti-gunners admitted that the system did not work in Nickolas Cruz's case and it did not have a damn thing to do with guns per se.  The real culprit is that the government didn't do its job.  The real culprit is that we don't unite as a people and get mentally ill people put into protective custody.  The anti-gunners don't want to make you safe by putting the mentally into a supervised environment.  At the end of the day, anti-gunners hate America's culture.  They don't give two hoots in Hell about children.  Otherwise anti-gunners would meet us half-way and this time talk about the root cause of the problem, *NOT* the mere symptoms.

...


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## Dogmaphobe (Feb 28, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...




He trolls introduction threads and attacks posters at will just as he trolls discussions in the clean debate section attacking people at will. He pretty much shits all over everything he touches. 

The site rules never seem to apply to him.


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## Hugo Furst (Feb 28, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > won't stop laughing out loud when you make such a fool of yourself. You post a pic saying it is a 1950s hunting rifle, and it is a autoloading shotgun introduced in 1987? That was fucking hilarious!
> ...





JoeB131 said:


> Since a slave can't consent to sex or refuse to have it with her master, that's rape.



at the time, slaves were property.

Do you wait for your house to ask you to enter, make modifications to it?

Do your ask your car if it wants to go on a trip?

Does a cow ask permission to be milked?

you seem to be considering them in YOUR point of view, not the standards of that day.


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 28, 2018)

JimmyC said:


> petro said:
> 
> 
> > Welcome...Good post.
> ...



Jimmy actually the media is not being manipulated.the MSM does not do what we were taught growing up and led to believe,the MSM is always biased in their reporting,they never investigate REAL news,sadly the best reporting of news is by independent people with no agenda. the truth about the MSM news is they are not there to investigate anything,they are just a TOOL for the government to tell us their propaganda they feed them.

 they indeed feed us propaganda like you said,and sadly the sheep keep eating it up and buying it hook,line,and sinker. the media is controlled by the CIA. congress back in its day when it was not corrupt to the extremes it is today,they did an investigation into the CIA's activities in the 70's and discovered evidence that the CIA has plants on their payroll that control the MSM news.

walter kronkite was one,bill o'reily,hannity and colmes,dan rather,tom brokaw,all the major media newscasters like them are CIA plants.


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## jillian (Feb 28, 2018)

JimmyC said:


> Hey everybody. New to the forum.
> 
> I will use my introduction to start a response and we will pick up from where the first responder ends up posting a reply.
> 
> ...




hahahahahahahahaha

start what conversation? the same one the other NRA shills on this board have spammed us with dozens of times?


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## IsaacNewton (Feb 28, 2018)

Hossfly said:


> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> > JimmyC said:
> ...




Laughable all of it. There are no official state militias as there were when the Constitution was signed. Today it's a collection of double chins and angries that feel powerless and only feel power when they hold a gun and threaten other people. 

You derps try to parse this crap every which way and twice on Sunday. Save it nobody cares anymore. Keep your pistol for protection, the assault rifles are going. Don't worry you can still rely on your RPG and APC in your backyard. Oh  you don't have those because they are illegal and you are ok with that gun control? 

You're like children who need their blanky.


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## Humorme (Feb 28, 2018)

IsaacNewton said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > IsaacNewton said:
> ...



"_Official_" state militias?  Are you kidding us?  Let's look at this realistically.

*10 USC §311. Militia: composition and classes*
*(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
*
Since I am not a member of the organized militia and I'm not in the National Guard or Naval Militia, it stands to reason that I MUST be in the militia if I'm at least 17 years of age, a citizen, or have made it a declaration of intent to become one.

Court rulings, civil rights statutes, etc. eliminated the maximum age restriction.  So, you fail once again.


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## IsaacNewton (Feb 28, 2018)

Humorme said:


> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...




Then if 'all able-bodied males 17 years and older are in the militia then any arms regulation pertains to all of them. A WELL REGULATED MILITIA. 

See how easily you are led down the primrose path. Thanks for coming along.


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## Humorme (Feb 28, 2018)

IsaacNewton said:


> Humorme said:
> 
> 
> > IsaacNewton said:
> ...



You go down no primrose path.  Here is a simple lesson for you:


"Regulating the militia is separate and apart from the Right of the people to keep and bear Arms.  The Right to keep and bear Arms predated the Constitution.  The Constitution does not grant the Right.  It only guarantees it.

"_The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them_."
- Joseph Story, _Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States_, 1833  Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court

"_The great object is that every man be armed" and "everyone who is able may have a gun._" (Patrick Henry, in the Virginia Convention on the ratification of the Constitution. Debates and other Proceedings of the Convention of Virginia,taken in shorthand by David Robertson of Petersburg, at 271, 275 2d ed. Richmond, 1805. Also 3 Elliot, Debates at 386)

And there is your well regulated militia.  The Constitution doesn't have a single word about the regulation of firearms.  From the time of the debates all the way the *first* United States Supreme Court decisions, the Right to keep and Bear Arms was above the government's jurisdiction.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Feb 28, 2018)

This forum is for introductory purposes.  Please take all other subject matter to the appropriate forums.  Thanks


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