# Is a $5,000 deductible Obamacare policy fair to the poor?



## Roadrunner (Mar 25, 2015)

That is what we used to call "catastrophic coverage".

My friend, a single mom, working as a bank teller can't even take her kids to the doctor now that the bank dumped them all onto Obamacare.

She tells me she struggles to pay the premium, and still can't see the doc.

I didn't ask what the premium is, will try to remember when I go to the bank today.

What kind of working class people can handle a $5,000 deductible.

That in itself is a catastrophe.

Mine, through the evil Blue Cross/Blue Shield is $300.


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 25, 2015)

my wife has hers through Wal Mart, it 5k also, but they make them save ten dollars a pay check for the deductible.....The premium is like 75 dollars a month...


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 25, 2015)

Mine is zero...


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 25, 2015)

A $5000 deductable policy is not fair to anyone

That is why we need Universal Healthcare


----------



## pepperpot (Mar 25, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> That is what we used to call "catastrophic coverage".
> 
> My friend, a single mom, working as a bank teller can't even take her kids to the doctor now that the bank dumped them all onto Obamacare.
> 
> ...


My daughter is on the exchange here and her deductible is 7500 bucks.  But pay attention to the details in it.  Is your deductible comprehensive or is it only "covered expenses?"   Because if its covered expenses they may not include services like a second anesthesiologist or surgeon in your deductible.  They can be out of pocket expenses.  Read the fine print in your plan.


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 25, 2015)

pepperpot said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > That is what we used to call "catastrophic coverage".
> ...


MY plan has a $300 deductible.

I am now on Medicare, and BC/BS is my secondary.

I now pay a bit more for the two combined, but, coverage is about the same.


----------



## boedicca (Mar 25, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> A $5000 deductable policy is not fair to anyone
> 
> That is why we need Universal Healthcare




You poor misguided booby.


----------



## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2015)

boedicca said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > A $5000 deductable policy is not fair to anyone
> ...



if their children and grandchildren can pay for their healthcare. People like RW they're all for it

what are children for anyway


----------



## boedicca (Mar 25, 2015)

Stephanie said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




I think at this point, the debt extends to several more future generations.


----------



## Papageorgio (Mar 25, 2015)

Mine is a $3500 deductible, but I do get a good pregnancy program, pre-natal program and my birth control is free, forget that my wife is to old to have children and I had a vasectomy decades ago.


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 25, 2015)

Papageorgio said:


> Mine is a $3500 deductible, but I do get a good pregnancy program, pre-natal program and my birth control is free, forget that my wife is to old to have children and I had a vasectomy decades ago.


I am glad BC is free for nuns now.


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 25, 2015)

That is part of belonging to an insurance pool

Some conditions may apply to you, others may not

"I don't want pregnant women in my pool" is not an option


----------



## Papageorgio (Mar 25, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> That is part of belonging to an insurance pool
> 
> Some conditions may apply to you, others may not
> 
> "I don't want pregnant women in my pool" is not an option



I never paid for it before, when I could shop for insurance and pick and choose my options it worked very well. Now, I pay higher rates because I'm in a pool and pay part of my taxes to help subsidize those in the pool that increase the costs.


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 25, 2015)

Papageorgio said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > That is part of belonging to an insurance pool
> ...


 
You are free to buy any insurance on the open market that you please. Why don't you buy an individual policy?

Blocking women from an insurance pool because they may get pregnant is not in our countries best interests


----------



## Antares (Mar 26, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



ALL plans now include Maternity, it is one of the ten required coverages, even the single males plans covers it.


----------



## Mac1958 (Mar 26, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> That in itself is a catastrophe.


Yep.

The ACA is about quantity over quality.  They'll boast about the enrollment figures, but somehow forget to mention that many of those new enrollees don't have the money for their deductibles and co-pays.  Gosh, I wonder how they forgot to bring that up.

What a wasted opportunity.

.


----------



## boedicca (Mar 26, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Mine is a $3500 deductible, but I do get a good pregnancy program, pre-natal program and my birth control is free, forget that my wife is to old to have children and I had a vasectomy decades ago.
> ...




And they'd better pay for that BC or woe be to the Little Sisters of Charity!


----------



## Antares (Mar 26, 2015)

Look guys, this thing is doing EXACTLY what they designed it to do....it is crashing the system.

Unsustainable rate increases......unsustainable losses.....none of the promised money from the Risk Corridors.

Obama has always wanted a single payer.

He is getting it.


----------



## gallantwarrior (Mar 26, 2015)

Papageorgio said:


> Mine is a $3500 deductible, but I do get a good pregnancy program, pre-natal program and my birth control is free, forget that my wife is to old to have children and I had a vasectomy decades ago.


Similar story here.  I appreciate the obgyn, pre-natal, and birth control coverage...all for "free".  Too bad I have absolutely no use for any of that.


----------



## gallantwarrior (Mar 26, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Your attention span is showing...policies have been dictated and there are certain things required to be covered.  No one participating in the mandatory obamacare pools have any choice what conditions are covered.  Oh, wait, you don't read the policy, you simply accept it because your messiah has told you to.


----------



## gallantwarrior (Mar 26, 2015)

Obama, et.al., could give a flying rats ass about the poor.  The "poor" are useful idiots who will blindly follow his edicts, primarily because he's "just like them".  Really?


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 26, 2015)

Antares said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



As it should be

Single women can't get pregnant without single males

You think they should pay less for coverage?


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 26, 2015)

gallantwarrior said:


> Obama, et.al., could give a flying rats ass about the poor.  The "poor" are useful idiots who will blindly follow his edicts, primarily because he's "just like them".  Really?



Thank goodness for trickle down


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 26, 2015)

gallantwarrior said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



Diabetes, heart disease, pregnancy

God forbid you have to cover that


----------



## MeBelle (Mar 26, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



How much does  a condom cost?


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 26, 2015)

MeBelle said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Antares said:
> ...


Been free by the handful at Planned Parenthood for decades.

You don't think low class, self-centered young studs use them do you?


----------



## MeBelle (Mar 26, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> MeBelle said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Where's the personal responsibility part?

 He who plays, should pay.

$5k vs $5 (not sure just a guess about pricing of a condom)


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 26, 2015)

MeBelle said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > MeBelle said:
> ...


Condom use, or rather, the lack of condom use, has nothing to do with the price.

Self-centered bastards aren't taking a shower in a raincoat, and mindless silly little bitches can't see past the moment or say no.


----------



## MeBelle (Mar 27, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> Been free by the handful at Planned Parenthood for decades



Free?  Now I know you're joking


----------



## MeBelle (Mar 27, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> Condom use, or rather, the lack of condom use, has nothing to do with the price



True...

Please check the title of this thread.


----------



## MeBelle (Mar 27, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> Thank goodness for trickle down




I see what you did there, lol.


----------



## strollingbones (Mar 27, 2015)

o hell it is more than that....if you figure out the premiums vs the deductible.....they are all the same....you either pay the high premium or you pay a high deductible...i am in debt to the high deductible but it beats no insurance at all...the plan i have is the basic bronze.....after a lot of research its the best plan with the 11 grand deductible for hubby and i....so it left me basically holding 11 grand in medical expenses....for last year....the one thing i do not think most people realize however is once i reach the 11 grand....i do not pay anymore...where the other plans all have high co payments even after the deductible is met...

the average bankruptcy is due to about 11 k in medical debt....i wonder how they figured that deductible...


----------



## strollingbones (Mar 27, 2015)

yes i love the maternity coverage....i am 61 and the hubby had a vas years ago.....33 to be exact


----------



## gallantwarrior (Mar 27, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


All self-inflicted problems.  Really, though, $5,000 is pretty steep for most middle class people, too.  Don't you think?


----------



## gallantwarrior (Mar 27, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


All self-inflicted problems.  Really, though, $5,000 is pretty steep for most middle class people, too.  Don't you think?


strollingbones said:


> yes i love the maternity coverage....i am 61 and the hubby had a vas years ago.....33 to be exact


You should feel privileged to be supporting your "village".


----------



## Antares (Mar 27, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


 
Yup nobody  should have to pay for something they'll never use.


----------



## Greenbeard (Mar 27, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> That is what we used to call "catastrophic coverage".



We can still call it that. Not sure what you're getting at--do you think the option to buy it should be taken away?


----------



## HenryBHough (Mar 27, 2015)

Socialism has advanced to an extent that "universal" health care will be along before you know it.

And with it a litany of issues already confronted by other countries.  But you'll get used to it.  Or, if you have the resources, become a medical tourist.  At the end of the day it will still be a two-tier system but it will be an official one.


----------



## SwimExpert (Mar 28, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> A $5000 deductable policy is not fair to anyone
> 
> That is why we need Universal Healthcare



So that's the whole fucking plan?!  Force a piece of shit mandate that forces people to buy something they can't afford to buy, much less afford to use, so that you can use it as an excuse to force through universal health care!?!  You're putting people into poverty so you can score a political victory!?!


----------



## dblack (Mar 28, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> That is what we used to call "catastrophic coverage".
> 
> My friend, a single mom, working as a bank teller can't even take her kids to the doctor now that the bank dumped them all onto Obamacare.
> 
> ...



The (inevitable) move toward high-deductible insurance is the fairest thing that can happen to the poor. It's only thing that will make health care prices affordable again.


----------



## JoeMoma (Mar 28, 2015)

Greenbeard said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > That is what we used to call "catastrophic coverage".
> ...


Catastrophic coverage if done right is relatively cheap.  If coupled with a health saving account, it makes for a great plan for most relatively heathy people.


----------



## gallantwarrior (Mar 28, 2015)

We need to get back to pay-as-you-go/barter for service concepts.  It wasn't until the pay-anything insurance bullshit was instituted that healthcare in this country became unaffordable.  Coinciding with the idea that physicians entered the profession in service to others and less as a service to their personal bottom line.


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 28, 2015)

MeBelle said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > Been free by the handful at Planned Parenthood for decades
> ...


PP does not charge for condoms as far as I know.


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 28, 2015)

gallantwarrior said:


> We need to get back to pay-as-you-go/barter for service concepts.  It wasn't until the pay-anything insurance bullshit was instituted that healthcare in this country became unaffordable.  Coinciding with the idea that physicians entered the profession in service to others and less as a service to their personal bottom line.


My uncle too cash, chickens, vegetables, cleaned fish, game and lots of watermelons.

Man, we ate good the years we lived next door to him.

Good country food!!!


----------



## gallantwarrior (Mar 28, 2015)

I know way too many people who are going elsewhere for their medical/dental treatment because the places they go accept cash (lots less than expected here) for care.  Like lawyers, doctors in this country expect a multi-million dollar home and a Mercedes for their "service".


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 28, 2015)

gallantwarrior said:


> I know way too many people who are going elsewhere for their medical/dental treatment because the places they go accept cash (lots less than expected here) for care.  Like lawyers, doctors in this country expect a multi-million dollar home and a Mercedes for their "service".


Hard for the poor here to go to Mexico.

Insurance now means they cannot see the doctor, as many were dropped from Medicaid and told to pay to play.

What they now have is catastrophic coverage at a very high rate.


----------



## JoeMoma (Mar 28, 2015)

gallantwarrior said:


> I know way too many people who are going elsewhere for their medical/dental treatment because the places they go accept cash (lots less than expected here) for care.  Like lawyers, doctors in this country expect a multi-million dollar home and a Mercedes for their "service".


Paying cash can cut the doctor's bill in half if not by more.  Cash upon delivery for medical services are preferred to paying for staff to work wth collecting from insurance companies that might not pay for several months.


----------



## Care4all (Mar 28, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> > I know way too many people who are going elsewhere for their medical/dental treatment because the places they go accept cash (lots less than expected here) for care.  Like lawyers, doctors in this country expect a multi-million dollar home and a Mercedes for their "service".
> ...


You are simply wrong on ALL accounts on this roadrunner.

there is no $5000 deductible plans for the poor on the Exchange.  If they are poor, they must select a Silver Plan in order to get extra help and then the government will come in and pay, (in addition to their Premium Help), their Deductibles and Out of Pocket Expenses.  All of the poor, below 300% or so of the poverty level get ADDITIONAL assistance by the Government called:

Cost Sharing Reduction.

So this woman you know, may have chosen a bronze level plan with a high deductible or high out of pocket expense because the premium was lower...but by doing that, it made her ineligible for the Cost Sharing Reduction plan.  She has to choose a Silver Plan in order to get the extra help.

In addition to this,

ALL PLANS include doctor visits, at least 1 a year for herself and her children, and most all, if not all....?plans include cheap copayments for doctor's visits, like $10 to $40 a visit that do not have to come out of your deductible first....

this friend of yours, needs to find out if she was eligible for cost sharing reductions, CSR, if she chose a Silver Plan instead of the Bronze plan she more than likely took out....PLEASE convey this to her...


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 28, 2015)

Care4all said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > gallantwarrior said:
> ...


I can only go by what she tells me.

I did not pry into her details.

All I know is she is black, unhappy, and feels betrayed.

I am not interfering with that, perhaps next time she votes on issues, not race or heaven help us, gender.


----------



## DarkFury (Mar 29, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> > I know way too many people who are going elsewhere for their medical/dental treatment because the places they go accept cash (lots less than expected here) for care.  Like lawyers, doctors in this country expect a multi-million dollar home and a Mercedes for their "service".
> ...


*How the government sold three levels of care being equal to all I will never know. Oh I FORGOT! They NEVER read it!*


----------



## MeBelle (Mar 29, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> MeBelle said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...


True,
Nothing is free.

Planned Parenthood - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Antares (Mar 29, 2015)

Care4all said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > gallantwarrior said:
> ...




"
You are simply wrong on ALL accounts on this roadrunner.

there is no $5000 deductible plans for the poor on the Exchange.  If they are poor, they must select a Silver Plan in order to get extra help and then the government will come in and pay, (in addition to their Premium Help), their Deductibles and Out of Pocket Expenses.  All of the poor, below 300% or so of the poverty level get ADDITIONAL assistance by the Government called:"


Never use the word all, there are many who get a subsidy that do not get  cost sharing.

You are correct in that IF they qualify for Cost Sharing they MUST select Silver but without  it they can choose whatever plan or metal level they want.

"ALL PLANS include doctor visits, at least 1 a year for herself and her children, and most all, if not all....?plans include cheap copayments for doctor's visits, like $10 to $40 a visit that do not have to come out of your deductible first...."

No,not all plans have co-pays.


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 29, 2015)

MeBelle said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Antares said:
> ...



What does that have to do with the cost of women's health insurance?

Do you think women should have to pay more for their insurance?


----------



## jon_berzerk (Mar 29, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> That is what we used to call "catastrophic coverage".
> 
> My friend, a single mom, working as a bank teller can't even take her kids to the doctor now that the bank dumped them all onto Obamacare.
> 
> ...




certainly not 

it is cruel 

obamacares already figured out what they can afford to pay 

according to their income 

so they pay 50 - a hundred  maybe 150 dollars  month for a premium 

with nothing left over to pay for deductibles or co pays for office visits 

 the ones that really reap the benefit of obamacares is the big insurance companies 

besides taking every available dollar from the poor ( pay or face serious consequences from the government) 

big insurance gets several hundred dollars in subsidies for each of those poor folks enrolled


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 29, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> MeBelle said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Only if it is demonstrated their costs are significantly more.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Mar 29, 2015)

The following is sheer propaganda that is not true: " Force a piece of shit mandate that forces people to buy something they can't afford to buy, much less afford to use, so that you can use it as an excuse to force through universal health care!?! You're putting people into poverty so you can score a political victory!?!"

You are substituting your emotions for facts.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Mar 29, 2015)

Antares said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...




this is based on a person making less then 14 k a year age 55

*DAKOTACARE · Dakota Reserve 6000*
-1" style="font-family: 'Open Sans', sans-serif; font-size: 1.5em; margin: 4px 0px 0px; font-stretch: normal; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; max-width: 100%; padding: 0px;"> Compare

*Bronze HMO*
National Provider Network
Plan ID: 62210SD1450003
*ESTIMATED MONTHLY PREMIUM*
$5


Premium before tax credit: $390
*ESTIMATED DEDUCTIBLE*
$6,000Estimated individual total

*ESTIMATED OUT-OF-POCKET MAXIMUM*
$6,000Estimated individual total

*COPAYMENTS / COINSURANCE*

Primary doctor:*No charge after deductible*
Specialist doctor:*No charge after deductible*
Emergency room care:*No charge after deductible*
Generic drugs:*No charge after deductible*
*PEOPLE COVERED*

 Person Number1 (Age 55): Covered
*MORE INFORMATION*

 Summary of Benefits
 Plan brochure
 Provider directory
 List of 
---------------------------------------------------

*Avera Health Plans · Avera MyPlan $5,000 / 30% Coinsurance, Pediatric Dental*
-1" style="font-family: 'Open Sans', sans-serif; font-size: 1.5em; margin: 4px 0px 0px; font-stretch: normal; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; max-width: 100%; padding: 0px;"> Compare

*Bronze PPO*
Plan ID: 60536SD0020023
*ESTIMATED MONTHLY PREMIUM*
$11


Premium before tax credit: $396
*ESTIMATED DEDUCTIBLE*
$5,000Estimated individual total

*ESTIMATED OUT-OF-POCKET MAXIMUM*
$6,350Estimated individual total

*COPAYMENTS / COINSURANCE*

Primary doctor:*30% Coinsurance after deductible*
Specialist doctor:*30% Coinsurance after deductible*
Emergency room care:*30% Coinsurance after deductible*
Generic drugs:*$25*
*
----------------------------------

Sanford Health Plan · Sanford Simplicity-$5,000 HDHP
-1" style="font-family: 'Open Sans', sans-serif; font-size: 1.5em; margin: 4px 0px 0px; font-stretch: normal; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; max-width: 100%; padding: 0px;"> Compare

Bronze HMO
National Provider Network
Plan ID: 31195SD0080003
ESTIMATED MONTHLY PREMIUM
$37


Premium before tax credit: $423
ESTIMATED DEDUCTIBLE
$5,000Estimated individual total

ESTIMATED OUT-OF-POCKET MAXIMUM
$6,350Estimated individual total

COPAYMENTS / COINSURANCE

Primary doctor:40% Coinsurance after deductible
Specialist doctor:40% Coinsurance after deductible
Emergency room care:40% Coinsurance after deductible
Generic drugs:40% Coinsurance after deductible
PEOPLE COVERED

 Person Number1 (Age 55): Cov
there are several more 

You probably qualify for a Special Enrollment Period*


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 29, 2015)

strollingbones said:


> yes i love the maternity coverage....i am 61 and the hubby had a vas years ago.....33 to be exact



If you are 61, you are benefitting much more from the insurance pool than a 25 year old woman

Think of all the people complaining about your coverage

Would you rather go on the open insurance market as a 61 year old woman or a 25 year old woman?


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 29, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > MeBelle said:
> ...



They are.....women get pregnant

Guess who gets them pregnant?  The same ones you believe should pay lower rates


----------



## dblack (Mar 29, 2015)

SwimExpert said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > A $5000 deductable policy is not fair to anyone
> ...



That's the way they play. Many of them are proud of it. ACA is extortion.


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 29, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


I had all three of my kids when insurance was not necessary, and a man could pay his bills without it.


----------



## hortysir (Mar 29, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


No

I was told that if I liked my policy and my doctor I could keep them


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 29, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...


When was the last time you had surgery or were in a hospital?


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 29, 2015)

hortysir said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



Did you?


----------



## hortysir (Mar 29, 2015)

Greenbeard said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > That is what we used to call "catastrophic coverage".
> ...


Option?
When did ACA become optional?


----------



## hortysir (Mar 29, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Liked them both.
Still have doctor, but no more $25 office visits. Now $100, that goes toward my $4000 deductible that used to be $500


----------



## Greenbeard (Mar 29, 2015)

hortysir said:


> Greenbeard said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...



Most people don't buy the highest deductible plans. But you can if you like, they generally have the lowest premiums.


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 29, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


What business is that of yours?


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 29, 2015)

Greenbeard said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> > Greenbeard said:
> ...


What to do, what to do?

Go without insurance, and disobey the law, or, buy the plan your monthly income allows, and get jack-shit benefits?

Ain't PP/ACA wonderful!


----------



## Antares (Mar 29, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...



I have no idea what you are after here.


----------



## hortysir (Mar 29, 2015)

Greenbeard said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> > Greenbeard said:
> ...


My employer pays my premium.
I'm having a hard enough time meeting the deductible, much less adding a monthly expense


----------



## Antares (Mar 29, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



So EVERYBODY should help, good little Socialist Child.


----------



## Greenbeard (Mar 29, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> What to do, what to do?
> 
> Go without insurance, and disobey the law, or, buy the plan your monthly income allows, and get jack-shit benefits?
> 
> Ain't PP/ACA wonderful!



If you're in such dire financial straits, the ACA will subsidize your premium (and potentially your cost-sharing as well). Generally you buy a bronze plan because you want to, not because you have to. And it's okay to want to.


----------



## Greenbeard (Mar 29, 2015)

hortysir said:


> My employer pays my premium.
> I'm having a hard enough time meeting the deductible, much less adding a monthly expense



What's the added monthly expense if you don't pay a premium?


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 29, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...


You are making the claim that you haven't needed insurance. Trying to see if it is true

I suspect, given your age group, that it is not


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 29, 2015)

Antares said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...


Insurance pools are socialism at its finest

It is the men in an insurance pool who get the women in an insurance pool pregnant

Why do you think they should pay lower rates?


----------



## Antares (Mar 29, 2015)

Many people just buy the cheapest they can find.

I will say this not many people bought the


rightwinger said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




I see, and the women bare no responsibility at all........got it.

Apparently you don't don't understand actuarial realities


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 29, 2015)

Antares said:


> Many people just buy the cheapest they can find.
> 
> I will say this not many people bought the
> 
> ...



Responsibility?

Like bearing children, caring and nurturing them?

That type of responsibility?


----------



## hortysir (Mar 29, 2015)

Greenbeard said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> > My employer pays my premium.
> ...


If I was to choose to buy a better plan


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 29, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Don't be a dumb fuckin' ass.

I said I did not have insurance or need it when my kids were being born.

I'm 66, on Medicare I paid for for years, whether I want to be or not.


----------



## MeBelle (Mar 29, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...



With my last child, I had no insurance.  The cost was $2000. I set up a payment plan with the hospital..


----------



## Greenbeard (Mar 29, 2015)

hortysir said:


> If I was to choose to buy a better plan



I suppose I don't really get your conundrum. You don't pay any premium, which means you're liable for costs only if you get sick or injured--which, on its face, is relatively fair, I would think we can agree.

If you're a single person, by law the most you can spend out of pocket is $6,600 this year. Not an insignificant sum, to be sure, but if you've exhausted that amount of cost-sharing that means you've incurred health expenses in excess of that. Perhaps significantly above that. Maybe you incur $100,000 in hospital bills and are liable for only that $6,600, I don't know. The point is, you're protected.

So what is a "better plan"? If you pay that individual OOP max because you have considerable health expenses, that's the equivalent of $550/month.

I gather (perhaps incorrectly) you're not a particularly young guy. If you're looking at the full premium of a health plan--with no employer subsidy--coupled with the assumption that you're going to max out whatever out-of-pocket limit your plan has, it's every unlikely you're going to find a better deal than what you've got.

Frankly, the people who are supposed to be complaining under the current system are people like _me_--those who use virtually none of their deductible in any given year because they don't incur any health expenses (knock on wood!) but still have to pay premiums anyway. Not people like you, who don't pay any premiums but expect to use or even max out their deductibles and cost-sharing because they have health issues.


----------



## hortysir (Mar 29, 2015)

Greenbeard said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> > If I was to choose to buy a better plan
> ...


My main gripe is that my employer-paid plan used to have a 500 deductible followed by 80/20 with $25 doctor visits. Max out-of-pocket, annually, was $2000

My President told me that I could keep that plan.

I haven't shopped around real intensively, but I'm quite confident that a plan of that nature would cost much more than I could afford. Even if it's "only" $200 more per month.

Like most working class Americans I live from paycheck to paycheck with only a small portion left over. 

Like I said, earlier, I was paying $25 dollars for Dr visits. Now, next Monday, I'm going to have to fork over $100. Reason for Dr visit is recent back injury that I went to ER for a couple days ago. My old plan had a $150 copay for ER. This one, nope...... Can't wait to see that bill. 
Good news is it'll probably be pretty damned close to meeting my deductible. Bad news is, how the fuck am I supposed to afford it?


----------



## Care4all (Mar 29, 2015)

Antares said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...


*Yep, as I had said "most all, if not all...."  so this did leave some room for a family that has no copays at all because the CSR comes in and pays the entirety or because a handful of plans in some states may not have cheap copays available and their deductible has to be paid first I would suppose(?), but the customer KNOWS this upfront, when they buy the policy.*

*SEE ABOVE drop down for other replies in blue!  *


----------



## Greenbeard (Mar 29, 2015)

hortysir said:


> My main gripe is that my employer-paid plan used to have a 500 deductible followed by 80/20 with $25 doctor visits. Max out-of-pocket, annually, was $2000
> 
> My President told me that I could keep that plan.



It's very hard to speak to a particular situation with partial information. If you had that plan in March 2010 when the ACA passed, then it was grandfathered in and it was exempt from most regulatory changes implemented by the law.

Beyond that, again it depends. Most people tend to work for larger companies, and so most people have insurance arrangements where their employer is actually their health insurer (they still have an insurance card from some health insurer, like Blue Cross or whoever, because they buy administrative services and access to a health care provider network, etc from that insurer). In those cases, they're under different rules than people buying "real" health insurance products--none of those particular plans are subject to any kinds of benefit mandates and so forth. But those people have also tended to have certain protections--and they tended to have generous insurance plans anyway--even before the ACA came about.

If you work for a smaller company, then that company probably does buy an insurance product from a health insurer and it's possible its costs went up because its benefits got richer and it added consumer protections under the ACA. But again, if you're in a position where you're regularly maxing out your deductible, those protections likely benefit you. The "losers" in this situation are the people who don't consume any health services and have insurance just in case. It doesn't sound like that's you.

Anyway, if you don't pay any of the premium it's probably tough for you to gauge how the actual costs of the plan have changed--all you're really exposed to is how much of it your employer transfers to you. In general, premium growth has moderated in the past few years.



> I haven't shopped around real intensively, but I'm quite confident that a plan of that nature would cost much more than I could afford. Even if it's "only" $200 more per month.



I think you're right to be confident. $200/month is just not what it costs to insure an older person who regularly consumes health services. Not in the U.S. anyway. Like I said, it may or may not seem like it but it sounds like you're getting a pretty decent deal.



> Good news is it'll probably be pretty damned close to meeting my deductible. Bad news is, how the fuck am I supposed to afford it?



I can't answer that for you. But I guess my question to you would be: it sounds like you don't pay any premiums, it sounds like you don't want to pay much of a deductible or copays, yet it also sounds like you consume a fair amount of health services. So what do _you_ think you should pay when you get health care? Nothing?


----------



## gallantwarrior (Mar 30, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > That is what we used to call "catastrophic coverage".
> ...


Ding!  Ding!  Ding!  And the man (woman) gets the prize.  Only insurers and pols reap the "benefits" here.  Poor, middle-class, whatever...  We only get higher deductibles and poorer care.  Those who can, will go overseas for major medical procedures...you know, where it's "pay-as-you-go"?  Just another formerly American exception off-shored.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Mar 30, 2015)

Antares said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Antares said:
> ...




that this statement is complete bullshit 

"*there is no $5000 deductible plans for the poor on the Exchange. If they are poor, they must select a Silver Plan in order to get extra help"*

i helped several "poor" people get on the exchange and there are several plans with huge deductibles 

huge out of pocket and 50 percent co pays 

the three plans listed have between the deductible and out of pocket at least 11000 that the insurened is responsible for 

not including 50 percent co pays and such


----------



## jon_berzerk (Mar 30, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> Greenbeard said:
> 
> 
> > hortysir said:
> ...




--Indeed


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 30, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...



She voted for Obama simply because he was black, she can live with the consequences.

And since she works, she is considered lower middle class, not poor, and thus slated for economic extinction anyway.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Mar 30, 2015)

gallantwarrior said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...




yup


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 30, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...


 
So other taxpayers are paying for your healthcare

I can see why you want to deprive it to others


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 30, 2015)

hortysir said:


> Greenbeard said:
> 
> 
> > hortysir said:
> ...


 
Did Obama order you to change your plan or did your employer?


----------



## jon_berzerk (Mar 30, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Antares said:
> ...



i didnt even get into the silver plans and how asinine they are for the poor and working poor


----------



## Geaux4it (Mar 30, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> That is what we used to call "catastrophic coverage".
> 
> My friend, a single mom, working as a bank teller can't even take her kids to the doctor now that the bank dumped them all onto Obamacare.
> 
> ...



It was probably more fair to have us pay the tab like before. It was a win for the poor as they did not have to pony up the deductible and could be treated anyway. Now they will have a mandatory must pay bill to deal with. 

Yes, those who elected to have insurance pre-Obamacare paid the tab.

I was good with that

-Geaux


----------



## jon_berzerk (Mar 30, 2015)

*Is a $5,000 deductible Obamacare policy fair to the poor?*

i just noticed the op question 

with these policies for the poor 

there is a deductible and out of pocket and cost sharing per visit or procedure 

so it is much more then just five grand 

if it a "poor family" double those numbers


----------



## jon_berzerk (Mar 30, 2015)

a heart angioplasty  will still cost the "poor"  50 grand or more


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 30, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Oh fuck yourself.

I paid for a Medicare premium for 25 years before I went on Medicare.

Why are you parasites such dishonest fucks?

I also pay for a supplemental plan.

Why do you always argue from such a lying, dishonest POV?


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 30, 2015)

Geaux4it said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > That is what we used to call "catastrophic coverage".
> ...


I like the way the libs ignore the fact that those of us on Medicare paid every month for 20-30 years before we got on the plan, and then claim "the taxpayers" pay for our healthcare.

Shit, we ARE the taxpayers.


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 30, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...


 
Why do you think we have Medicare? It is because of people like you who think...I have mine and I don't want to pay for others

Which group is the last group insurers want to cover?  Those over 65
Which group consumes more healthcare than any other? Those over 65
Which group would pay through the nose for insurance if not for Medicare?  Those over 65

You paid premiums your whole life, but those premiums do not cover the cost of major healthcare for seniors. Cancer, Heart surgery, Joint repairs, blood diseases....can all run up bills of $500,000 to $1 million. More than you paid your whole life


----------



## Care4all (Mar 30, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Antares said:
> ...





jon_berzerk said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...


You have simply chosen the WRONG plan, you've chosen a BRONZE plan and there is no Cost Sharing Reduction available if you go with a Bronze plan....you must select one of the Silver plans, which have lower deductibles and out of pocket expenses in general, than these lower level providing insurance plans such as the Bronze plans.

Put in that same info that you used for the 55 year old, and pick the lowest level SILVER plan, then print that info above again and show us what it is pretty please.

It will show you a silver plan which has a 30%/70% ratio, but if you are poor it will be 10%/90% coverage or 20%/80% coverage, your yearly wellness visit is free, and you will have low co payments for any doctor's visit of $10 to $30...
and if the deductible on the silver plan is $2000 and out of pocket is $5200, the Cost Sharing Reduction plan will come in and say your deductible is maybe $400 for the year and your out of pocket maximum will be $1500.

If the Health Care agent on the exchange does not lead these poor people in to taking out a Silver plan and leads them in to these lower level Bronze insurance coverage, they should be SHOT! (figuratively speaking)


----------



## jon_berzerk (Mar 30, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...




they have to be it is how they operate 

i mean why else would one have to pass a law 

to read what was in it


----------



## Care4all (Mar 30, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...


what is collected in Medicare taxes is not enough to pay for medicare coverage, so the tax payers pick up the tab on that....  When the Medicare Pill bill was passed, congress did not fund it with higher medicare taxes and we the people pick up the tab, NOT medicare taxes.


----------



## Care4all (Mar 30, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


They had months to read what was in it and did read what was in it....shoot even we read what was in it, before it passed and had thread after thread on it, the final draft is what they did not have time to read.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Mar 30, 2015)

Care4all said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...



*You have simply chosen the WRONG plan,*

the other guy said that the poor could not get a bronze plan and MUST get a silver one

now you come along and say the poor simply picked the wrong plan

--LOL

what if they can not afford high premium rates


----------



## jon_berzerk (Mar 30, 2015)

Care4all said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...


bs


----------



## RKMBrown (Mar 30, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> That is what we used to call "catastrophic coverage".
> 
> My friend, a single mom, working as a bank teller can't even take her kids to the doctor now that the bank dumped them all onto Obamacare.
> 
> ...


I have a choice.  I can select an HSA with a 5k deductible. Or I can pay an additional 500 a month and get a lower deductible.  You do the math.


----------



## Geaux4it (Mar 30, 2015)

Flashback when the pain was on the horizon

-Geaux

The deductibles on the low-cost plans are the real scandal here. The administration will surely trot out a long line of cancer patients and people with other terrible medical problems who got treatment in 2014 with coverage they weren’t able to buy in 2013, but there are going to be far more working poor and middle class people who still have to scrape together a decent premium after the subsidies, pay it faithfully, then get sick and go to the doctor, only to find out their policy doesn’t cover anything until they’ve paid a $5,000 deductible. I predict a LOT of dissatisfied lower income premium payers.

Read more at: National Review


----------



## RKMBrown (Mar 30, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> A $5000 deductable policy is not fair to anyone
> 
> That is why we need Universal Healthcare


ROFL  yeah we'll all be living on easy street if those damn republican will just give us free universal healthcare, because everyone knows universal is better than individual.  On a universal system money grows off trees and doctors don't even charge you.  Heck, all the equipment they use becomes universal equipment. And drugs, they are all universal drugs.  Just brand it universal and it's all free to everyone that needs it.


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 30, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



You do not know that insurance is shared risk?

Since I have had none of those things while on Medicare, your argument fails.

And since I am a TAXPAYER, not one of the 47%, it fails again


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 30, 2015)

Care4all said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...




Sorry, being one of the tax PAYERS, and not one of the 47%, you fail.


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 30, 2015)

RKMBrown said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > A $5000 deductable policy is not fair to anyone
> ...


 
I never said free

But what difference does it make if I pay $5000 a year for a private policy or $5000 more in taxes for Universal Healthcare if in the end, I get better coverage through universal coverage?

Don't like all those huge deductables and copays in your insuranc?  Thank those who labled Universal Healthcare as socialism


----------



## Geaux4it (Mar 30, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Better coverage defined as, and by who?

-Geaux


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 30, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...


 
Odds are that you or your husband will eventually have a major health issue
But what if you don't?

Suppose your neighbor has cancer and runs up a million dollars in medical bills. Meanwhile, you and your husband are perfectly healthy and have no medical costs

Which would you rather be?


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 30, 2015)

Geaux4it said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...


 
WHO which ranks us #26 in the world


----------



## Care4all (Mar 30, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...


The premium rates are not too much higher, if they are lower income then not too much at all...and absolutely well worth it, they get the equivalent of a Platinum Plan, the highest coverage there is....for mere dollars a year, if they are poor....butttt, if they are healthy and young and poor with no family and they want to just take out a bronze plan to save a couple of dollars a month on the premium, they can...but please don't complain later if they do end up getting sick and have to pay the $5200 maximum out of pocket.

_How to save on out-of-pocket health care costs HealthCare.gov

If you qualify for savings on out-of-pocket costs, you’ll pay lower deductibles, coinsurance, and copayments. These are costs you have to pay when you get care.


When you apply for coverage in the Marketplace, you'll learn if you’re eligible for savings, which are sometimes called “cost-sharing reductions.”


*Savings depend on your 2015 income*

If your household income falls in these ranges, you’ll save on out-of-pocket costs. The lower your income within these ranges, the more you’ll save on out-of-pocket costs. Learn how to estimate your income for the Marketplace.

_

_$11,670 to $29,175 for individuals_
_$15,730 to $39,325 for a family of 2_
_$19,790 to $49,475 for a family of 3_
_$23,850 to $59,625 for a family of 4_
_$27,910 to $69,775 for a family of 5_
_$31,970 to $79,925 for a family of 6_
_$36,030 to $90,075 for a family of 7_
_$40,090 to $100,225 for a family of 8_
_ 
Incomes that qualify for cost-sharing reductions are higher in Alaska and Hawaii. See Alaska and Hawaii information.


Learn how to estimate your income and report on your household size.


If your income falls between the amounts shown, you also qualify for premium tax credits that lower your monthly premiums.


*Out-of-pocket savings apply only to Silver plans*

Plans in the Marketplace are grouped into 4 categories: Bronze, Silver, Gold, and Platinum. Learn more about plan categories and what they mean.


*If your income qualifies you for out-of-pocket savings, you must choose a Silver plan to get the savings.* You can choose any category of plan you want, but you'll get the out-of-pocket savings only if you enroll in a Silver plan.


Get more information about cost sharing reductions for American Indians and Alaska Natives.


*More answers*
_

_Can I save only on out-of-pocket costs?_
 


The very very poor get medicaid, not one of these bronze, silver, gold, platinum plans on the Exchange.


----------



## RKMBrown (Mar 30, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Cause everyone knows the federal government does a better job at ___, uhmm... oh wait.
What makes you think your coverage will be better by having your federal government manage it?  Cause they've done such a good job with 15% of your income for SS?  Oh wait...  Cause they've done such a good job at education?  Oh wait...  Cause they've done such a good job managing the mail?  Oh wait.... Cause they've done such a good job protecting our border?  Oh wait...


----------



## jon_berzerk (Mar 30, 2015)

Care4all said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...




quit your lying to make yourself feel better 

the poorest of the poor *DO NOT* get medicaid in every state


----------



## RKMBrown (Mar 30, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


And which uses completely different rules to measure us than they do other countries, thus sandbagging our ranking. For example, infant deaths are not counted the same between us and other countries.


----------



## Care4all (Mar 30, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...


The poorest of the poor have gotten MEDICAID in every state for DECADES now...each State has their own qualifying rules and MEDICAID as said has been around forever.

AS FAR AS those Republican governor States that CHOSE not to help their second tier poorest...that's not due to Obamacare, that's due to the INDIVIDUAL STATE'S DECISION.

You should stop lying and do some research on all of this...."ignorance is bliss", for only so long....


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 30, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


My husband???

You know damned well I am a man, and not a fuckin' queer either.

Back to Person Unworthy of Response status for you.

Have a great day.


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 30, 2015)

RKMBrown said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...


I love how they rank us like we were like the 99% white Scandinavian countries with populations smaller than the ghettos of our biggest cities.

Send 200,000 randomly picked New Orleanians to Sweden, and within 30 years Stockholm will look like the Lower 9th Ward.


----------



## hortysir (Mar 30, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> > Greenbeard said:
> ...


Obama ordered my employer to cover even more people that it did at the time, thus adding to their expenses which led to redistribution of coverage


----------



## hortysir (Mar 30, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Then, with your ever-precious universal healthcare, we could all pay thousands more per year in taxes and enjoy an even more bloated government.


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 30, 2015)

RKMBrown said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...


 
Federal Employees Health Benefits (FEHB) is much better than anything on the open market

We tried to make it available to all Americans but the right started screaming "Socialism" and "Government takeover"


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 30, 2015)

hortysir said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > hortysir said:
> ...


 
So your employer was a prick


----------



## hortysir (Mar 30, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


I can't debate that point.

Thought it negates the point that they were forced to almost triple the size of their "pool"


----------



## RKMBrown (Mar 30, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Let me get this straight.  You use the limited funds of the taxpayer to give federal employees the best health care the taxpayer's money can buy, and you think this is evidence that everyone should have the best health care the taxpayer's money can buy.

ROFL


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 30, 2015)

RKMBrown said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...


 
Why not?

It works and provides better service at lower cost than the state exchanges


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 30, 2015)

RKMBrown said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...


Same logic that says that you pay your federal income tax all your career, pay your Medicare tax all your career, and when you retire and take Medicare, your are "mooching off the taxpayers".

Kafka couldn't make this shit up.


----------



## rightwinger (Mar 30, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


 
Same logic that thinks because you pay school taxes you are footing the bill for 100% of your kids education

Medicare workds because you have others supporting you. It is not a savings account


----------



## RKMBrown (Mar 30, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Federal Employees Health Benefits Program - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The FEBHP's cost is about $40 billion in 2010 for 4million employees.  Getting out my handy dandy calculator, that's TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS per employee.  According to the same link the average is 1 significant other that is also covered.   That would be 5thousand dollars per person.  

400million people, assuming you want to cover the illegals too.. comes out to $2,000,000,000,000.00.  That's 2 TRILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.  To collect that 2 trillion in spending every "taxpayer" would have to fork over 20k a year to fund this beast.  However, given that we have a "progressive" tax system, what you are really talking about is 1/2 of the income most people make going to a new 50% tax increase.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Mar 30, 2015)

Care4all said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...




*The poorest of the poor have gotten MEDICAID in every state for DECADES now*

you are full of shit or completely ignorant 

get your shit together 

*Adults without Dependent Children*
There is currently no federal requirement that states provide health coverage to adults without dependent children. These adults qualify for Medicaid coverage only if they have a disability or are age 65 or older. However, about half of states provide some coverage through federal waivers or state-funded programs for non-disabled adults who have limited incomes but do not otherwise qualify for Medicaid.

Non-Disabled Adults Medicaid.gov


----------



## Antares (Mar 30, 2015)

Care4all said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...



Not all who qualify for a subsidy qualify for cost sharing.


----------



## Care4all (Mar 30, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...


ok, so it depends on the State's Law on it for Adults without children.

So what's your point?

Those people WOULD HAVE BEEN COVERED in ALL states, if ALL states had expanded their Medicaid as Obamacare wanted Jon...  

So those States who did not cover all of their poor adults that have no children with MEDICAID, are the ones at fault, and not the ACA (for that problem of the loop hole that the SC put in to it with allowing governors/States to make this decision.)  The States made this decision, per the SC, to allow those particular poor adults, fall through the cracks.

So yes, it is a problem in some States for some people...BUT that is not the fault of the ACA/Obamacare, THAT is the fault of the State itself that has left these particular individuals without Health care insurance.
States for some people

IF you are upset with these poor adults with no children not being helped not getting MEDICAID


----------



## Care4all (Mar 30, 2015)

Antares said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...


Of Course!  Not all that go on the exchange are poor....even the middle class can get some premium subsidy help if they are unable to get an insurance plan through their employer.

I posted the link earlier that showed the income ranges per number of people in the family, that QUALIFY for cost sharing reductions.  If you are married with near two hands full of kids you can make as much as $100,000 a year and still qualify for some Cost sharing reductions though.


----------



## Antares (Mar 30, 2015)

Care4all said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...



I took a Dr. through the Exchange 2 adults and 6 kids, he made 100 G's and got a $1000 subsidy, I was stunned.


----------



## LoneLaugher (Mar 30, 2015)

Antares said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Antares said:
> ...



AGI of 100k?


----------



## Antares (Mar 30, 2015)

LoneLaugher said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...



Technically MAGI but yes,I found it repugnant....he in NO way needed the subsidy.

I was also having to  turn away folks that only made 11500


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 30, 2015)

Antares said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > Antares said:
> ...


Question, would a land rich, cash poor senior, on Medicare, get a subsidy for their supplemental insurance?


----------



## LoneLaugher (Mar 30, 2015)

Antares said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > Antares said:
> ...



That's not his fault. 

He's got 6 kids. 100k isn't rich for a family of 8. He's a middle class professional. Glad he can get the help.


----------



## Antares (Mar 30, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



Yes, it's all based on income.


----------



## Antares (Mar 30, 2015)

Are 


LoneLaugher said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



Are you self employed?


----------



## dblack (Mar 30, 2015)

subsidy, schmubsidy


----------



## LoneLaugher (Mar 30, 2015)

Antares said:


> Are
> 
> 
> LoneLaugher said:
> ...



Yep.


----------



## Antares (Mar 30, 2015)

LoneLaugher said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > Are
> ...



Then you know full well how income numbers can be manipulated


----------



## LoneLaugher (Mar 30, 2015)

Antares said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > Antares said:
> ...



Of course. Did you say that the doctor was self employed? I missed that 

Doesn't matter, though. The subsidies are based on AGI. You have 6 kids and an AGI of about 100k....you get a subsidy. It is a good investment.


----------



## Care4all (Mar 30, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> That is what we used to call "catastrophic coverage".
> 
> My friend, a single mom, working as a bank teller can't even take her kids to the doctor now that the bank dumped them all onto Obamacare.
> 
> ...


The point is, that your title is incorrect and your assumptions about this woman's policy is probably incorrect as well.

The poor, yes, your title SAID the *poor* on the Exchange have to pay $5000 deductibles and that is simply NOT TRUE, the *poor* get extra help in paying those deductibles and copays, with a Silver plan, on the exchange....they may have opted OUT of the silver plan, but that was their decision not to get the extra help.

I don't believe you intentionally mislead us, I think you, along with a lot of other people are unaware of the full program for the poorest on the exchange.

It's not like it is ADVERTISED on TV that there are cost sharing programs for the poorest on the exchange in addition to their subsidy for the premiums.... you have to research to find these things out, which I did over a year or two ago, when all of you guys kept mentioning the $5000 deductibles for the poor...and I volunteered at the community church to help the poor sign up.


----------



## Antares (Mar 30, 2015)

LoneLaugher said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



I did not intend to accuse you of manipulating yours.


----------



## LoneLaugher (Mar 30, 2015)

And..........the fact remains....if you suffer a heart attack.....or cut your foot off in a lawnmower accident.....that $5k ends up being a fucking bargain.


----------



## LoneLaugher (Mar 30, 2015)

Antares said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > Antares said:
> ...



You'll have to ask my accountant about that. I just follow her advice. I sure don't feel like I'm manipulating anything, though.


----------



## Antares (Mar 30, 2015)

If one cannot afford to pay 5 G's it matters not whether it's 5 or 500

Many of the bronze plans are aggregate, that's where the 13000 Ded or thereabout comes in.


----------



## sealybobo (Mar 30, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> That is what we used to call "catastrophic coverage".
> 
> My friend, a single mom, working as a bank teller can't even take her kids to the doctor now that the bank dumped them all onto Obamacare.
> 
> ...


This kind of shit was happening before obamacare. The insurance jacked up the price but then offered an alternative where company pay less but you pay out of pocket. This sucks.

And I'm not arguing for personal reasons. Mines only $1000 a year.


----------



## sealybobo (Mar 30, 2015)

LoneLaugher said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...


The GOP manipulated the tax code and investments in favor of the rich.

The poor dont vote. They don't think it matters. So they dont matter. You're winning! For now.


----------



## CMike (Mar 30, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> That is what we used to call "catastrophic coverage".
> 
> My friend, a single mom, working as a bank teller can't even take her kids to the doctor now that the bank dumped them all onto Obamacare.
> 
> ...


Most policies have co pays to see the doctor.

The deductible is usually when you go to the hospital.


----------



## CMike (Mar 30, 2015)

Antares said:


> If one cannot afford to pay 5 G's it matters not whether it's 5 or 500
> 
> Many of the bronze plans are aggregate, that's where the 13000 Ded or thereabout comes in.


You can't have a 13000 deductible.

The maximum out of pocket is 6 thousand something per individual


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 30, 2015)

Care4all said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > That is what we used to call "catastrophic coverage".
> ...


She works, so, probably does not qualify.

If she is misinformed, does not surprise me, she is a Democrat who voted for Obama twice.


----------



## Antares (Mar 30, 2015)

CMike said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > If one cannot afford to pay 5 G's it matters not whether it's 5 or 500
> ...



I know but some of the Bronze plans are "aggregate"meaning you gotta hit them both before the insurance company pays anything.

It sucks.


----------



## Care4all (Mar 30, 2015)

Antares said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > Antares said:
> ...


You said they would get help on their SUPPLEMENTAL Insurance?  I don't think so, not on the Exchange....they may qualify for MEDICAID to help them with what Medicare does not pay, but for a supplemental Insurance plan of their own, I'm not so sure you are correct on that?


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 30, 2015)

sealybobo said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > That is what we used to call "catastrophic coverage".
> ...


Mine is $300.


----------



## sealybobo (Mar 30, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...


A year? I thought mine was great.


----------



## Antares (Mar 30, 2015)

Care4all said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...



You're right I read it wrong, I was thinking regular ACA not Medicare.

THe only way to get help with Medicare is to be dual eligible meaning they get Medicaid too, Medicaid is based on assets.

Thank you for pointing that out.


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 30, 2015)

sealybobo said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


Yes.

And Medicare, which I was forced into, pays 80% after that, and supplemental pays 80% of the difference.

I am in good shape, until we go to "single payer", and a Soviet "Cancer Ward" type system.


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 30, 2015)

Antares said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Antares said:
> ...


I am talking about my supplemental.

I probably wouldn't take a subsidy anyway, I figure the paperwork and intrusion into my life would not be worth it.


----------



## Antares (Mar 30, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...



No, you'd have to be dual eligible, and they count ALL assets.


----------



## sealybobo (Mar 30, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...


You'll be OK old man its just a shower room. Door locks and gas starts seeping in.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Mar 30, 2015)

Care4all said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > That is what we used to call "catastrophic coverage".
> ...




*Exchange have to pay $5000 deductibles and that is simply NOT TRUE*

bs why do you keep lying 

i have posted several policies for the poor on this thread 

that show the poor paying much more then 5000 

5000 deductible plus 5000 out of pocket plus 50 percent co insurance


----------



## jon_berzerk (Mar 30, 2015)

Antares said:


> If one cannot afford to pay 5 G's it matters not whether it's 5 or 500
> 
> Many of the bronze plans are aggregate, that's where the 13000 Ded or thereabout comes in.



they are in the silver plan was well


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 30, 2015)

sealybobo said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...





sealybobo said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...




Not me, I ain't leaving all this ammo to my kids:


----------



## MeBelle (Mar 31, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...


Covered California


Bronze plans for Covered CA, single male earning $20k a year $5k deductible.

The verbiage has changed to make it look so pretty.

And of course the darn link doesn't work. Broken, just like everything Californian


----------



## Geaux4it (Mar 31, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



And that is important to you I see...

-Geaux


----------



## Geaux4it (Mar 31, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Yea, the leftist like to use those 'countries' in defense of ACA, but point out the same relative to gun laws and.......... yep.... they like to start comparing demographics. lol

-Geaux


----------



## Geaux4it (Mar 31, 2015)

LoneLaugher said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



The help he needed was condoms

The good Dr is living beyond his means

-Geaux


----------



## Care4all (Mar 31, 2015)

MeBelle said:


> View attachment 38774
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> ...


MaBelle, 

You wrongly put in for a bronze plan.

Please do that same exercise and put in for a SILVER PLAN.

POST 115 shows that if a single man makes between $11500 to $29000 they are eligible to receive  a second/additional supplement with COST SHARING REDUCTION AS LONG AS they pick a SILVER LEVEL PLAN.

There is no additional help with a bronze plan.

IT MUST BE A SILVER LEVEL PLAN.

A SILVER PLAN

A SILVER PLAN

A SILVER PLAN

NOT a BRONZE.

Please try it, use your same example of 20 years old, single male etc ans show us what it says the coverage is for that with his additional subsidy CSR.


----------



## MeBelle (Mar 31, 2015)

Care4all


----------



## Care4all (Mar 31, 2015)

MeBelle said:


> View attachment 38785 Care4all


Thank you!

Now one more thing....

Put in a 20 year old single male making 35k a year.... for these exact 3 silver plans

I want to see if they are putting the Cost Sharing Reduction in the figures or not?


----------



## MeBelle (Mar 31, 2015)

Care4all said:


> MeBelle said:
> 
> 
> > View attachment 38785 Care4all
> ...


gaaaaaaaa!  Yes Mom! lol


----------



## Care4all (Mar 31, 2015)

MeBelle said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > MeBelle said:
> ...


what is the link?  can I get in there?


----------



## MeBelle (Mar 31, 2015)

Care4all


----------



## MeBelle (Mar 31, 2015)

Care4all said:


> MeBelle said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...



Is Maine signed up for the Marketplace?


----------



## Care4all (Mar 31, 2015)

MeBelle said:


> Care4all
> View attachment 38786


i can't tell, it was cut off on parts I wanted to compare...and one gives a summary and the other screen print doesn't?


----------



## Care4all (Mar 31, 2015)

MeBelle said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > MeBelle said:
> ...


healthcare.gov

and I tried the other day to go in there to show an example on here and the site was limited to those that are eligible to enroll MID season, after they closed...it wasn't opened to do comparisons for me.


----------



## MeBelle (Mar 31, 2015)

Care4all said:


> MeBelle said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...



I noticed there was only  one graph to compare from.  Covered California goes by zip codes/counties. The county I live in could be less or more expensive then say, Los Angeles.


----------



## MeBelle (Mar 31, 2015)

Care4all said:


> MeBelle said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all
> ...


----------



## Care4all (Mar 31, 2015)

This Silver Plan was for a single male $20 k a year, 20 year old with the zip code of 90210 (hahahaha, the only zip code I knew by heart in California   )





Paying only $76 a month, for full coverage


----------



## Care4all (Mar 31, 2015)

I am assuming this plan above is with the cost sharing Reductions....

and it appears to be a very good plan as far as low deductibles, low out of pocket expense if he gets injured or hospitalized it is 15%/85%, and low copays to see the doctor and very low emergency room visits... etc....


----------



## MeBelle (Mar 31, 2015)

Care4all said:


> I am assuming this plan above is with the cost sharing Reductions....
> 
> and it appears to be a very good plan as far as low deductibles, low out of pocket expense if he gets injured or hospitalized it is 15%/85%, and low copays to see the doctor and very low emergency room visits... etc....



What was their out of pocket before health insurance kicked in?

Health Net is not available in my County.


----------



## Care4all (Mar 31, 2015)

A male 20 year old, making 20 k, qualifies for a Silver 87 plan, the third one over from the left....  with cost sharing reductions, it is affordable and is full coverage, UNLIKE the BRONZE lower coverage plans....

POORER PEOPLE ARE MAKING HUGE MISTAKES by going and buying a lower level Bronze Plan with these huge deductibles and out of pocket expenses, without seeing what a silver plan would cost them with full coverage and the gvt help of Cost Sharing Reduction...ONLY APPLIED to these Silver Plans....


----------



## RKMBrown (Mar 31, 2015)

Care4all said:


> A male 20 year old, making 20 k, qualifies for a Silver 87 plan, the third one over from the left....  with cost sharing reductions, it is affordable and is full coverage, UNLIKE the BRONZE lower coverage plans....
> 
> POORER PEOPLE ARE MAKING HUGE MISTAKES by going and buying a lower level Bronze Plan with these huge deductibles and out of pocket expenses, without seeing what a silver plan would cost them with full coverage and the gvt help of Cost Sharing Reduction...ONLY APPLIED to these Silver Plans....
> 
> View attachment 38794


ROFL


----------



## Care4all (Mar 31, 2015)

MeBelle said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > I am assuming this plan above is with the cost sharing Reductions....
> ...



ohhh, so sorry they are not avail in your county...but since it is a generic example of a 20 year old male making $20 k my 90210 county should give us a pretty good idea.

Their overall total deductible was $500, HOWEVER all Doctor's visits are NOT subject to the deductible first, they are a copay and his copay is $15 for a Doctor's visit, and generic drugs was a $5 copay, brand name had a $50 deductible to pay first, then just $15 per prescription....if he needed x rays, he would need to pay only $20 as the deductible not the $500....

For a young, poorer person, it's pretty darn good coverage for the 'just in cases' that can happen...


----------



## Care4all (Mar 31, 2015)

RKMBrown said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > A male 20 year old, making 20 k, qualifies for a Silver 87 plan, the third one over from the left....  with cost sharing reductions, it is affordable and is full coverage, UNLIKE the BRONZE lower coverage plans....
> ...


And what are you laughing at...RK? 

Do you not understand that a poorer person must choose one of the Silver Plans in order to get the ADDITIONAL help from the government?  HELP that is in ADDITION to their Premium Subsidy, so that they DO NOT have to pay the $6000 in out of pocket expenses or the $5000 deductibles per individual?


----------



## RKMBrown (Mar 31, 2015)

Care4all said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...


It's not about maximizing the amount of money you can shill from the tax payer or minimizing your deductible.  It's about getting the health care you need for the least amount of money.  You are focused like a laser on maximum out of pocket costs.  All the while completely ignoring minimum out of pocket costs for the premiums.  Maybe you are not healthy and you max out your deductible each year.  As for me and my family so far, knock on wood, we have only maxed out our deductibles twice in 30years.  The rest of those years we never even came close to maxing out of pockets.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Mar 31, 2015)

Care4all said:


> MeBelle said:
> 
> 
> > View attachment 38774
> ...



*IT MUST BE A SILVER LEVEL PLAN.*

bs 

why bother to even offer bronze plans if they cant have them 


--LOL


----------



## Care4all (Mar 31, 2015)

RKMBrown said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...


I am focused on the Poor, which is what the title of this thread speaks of and what this thread is suppose to be ABOUT, Rkm.

And those that are poor, who take out a silver Plan which is better than the Bronze level plan in Coverage, the government comes in and pays for a good portion of your deductibles and a good portion of your yearly out of pocket expense, and reduces your copays so that these poor people can afford it...can afford to go to the doctor all the time if they are sick or to go to the doctor just a handful of times a year if you are just normal.

And for a male 20 year old making $20k a year that MaBelle gave as an example, could get a policy in zip 90210, for a $76 premium a month, which IS affordable, with $15 copays for Doctor's visits, which is also affordable, and with $5 copays for generic prescriptions, which is also affordable....

There is no $5000 deductibles that have to be paid out of pocket and everything is affordable.... according to the fees it shows in black and white for the various medical care.


----------



## Care4all (Mar 31, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > MeBelle said:
> ...


GAWD you are slow in picking up all of this and understanding all of this and actually reading the charts that the Health Care State program shows and what has been put before your very eyes.

Please Drink some more coffee, and WAKE UP!

It must be a 
Silver Level Plan in order for the government to come in and give additional help with their Cost Sharing Reduction plan for the poorer.  The law made the rule,  for it to be a Silver Plan...probably becasue it is so much better coverage than these Bronze plans...and if the gvt is going to help you further with your medical care and conditions, then they want to make certain that your health care coverage is worth them paying for?

They can still choose to buy in to a bronze plan if they want to save a few bucks a month for the monthly premium.

BUT they are more than likely IGNORANT to do such and are UNAWARE of how the Cost Sharing Reductions work, and that in order to get some additional help, they must purchase a /silver Plan.

But the sites for Healthcare DO PASTE IT ALL OVER THE PLACE, that a Silver plan must be purchased in order to get additional savings and help...I pasted a copy of it previously and here it is again, in the first paragraph, after I had entered in 20yr male, $20k a year... below this copy and paste, it gives choices of different Silver plan policies from lowest price to most expensive...
I showed that earlier too where it gives the kind of costs per coverage on this special cost reduction plan.

NOTE!
*Silver Plan Benefits*
Based on your income and household size, you may qualify for Cost Sharing Reduction, which means you may be able to get improved benefits on the Enhanced Silver Plan you qualify for with no additional cost. You can get these improved benefits with any of the carriers listed below as long as you apply for a Silver Plan. View the Silver Plans in your quotes to see which Enhanced Silver Plan you qualify for.





This 20 yr old qualified for the SILVER 87 plan, it is reasonable and could be managed on his income.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Mar 31, 2015)

Care4all said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...




**may qualify* *
you like moving the goal posts around you frikking jerk

buzz off ya liar


----------



## jon_berzerk (Mar 31, 2015)

RKMBrown said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...




there are silver plans out there with no deductible no out of pocket 

however the ones for the guy who made 14 grand a year 

the silver premium like that came out to *486 dollars a month *

as if  that is even realistic for that income 

--LOL


----------



## Care4all (Mar 31, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...


deep breath and sigh....

AS I said previously, following this statement that I screen printed, it showed the various policies that he qualified for and he qualified for the Silver 87 plan.

Look under Silver 87 to see the kind of fees he would have to pay for his Medical care...  and scroll up above and look at all of the other screen prints on this 20 yr old 20k a year example we are using.














this is for the first plan in his choices to choose from....

What you and others are posting about $5000 deductibles do not apply to the poorer people who qualified for an enhanced insurance Plan through Cost Sharing Reductions if they buy a Silver Plan.

and look, here it is again, saying to pick a Silver Plan for more help.  Next to GOOD NEWS:



It shows all of the plans he can buy with subsidies including Bronze or Platinum, but it tells him to buy a silver plan if he wants additional help....then it goes on to list the Silver 87 plans that he is eligible to buy that are part of the Cost sharing reduction plan....(and for him, he qualifies for the Silver number 87 plans.)

If you and others can STILL not understand this then I don;t know what to say....


----------



## jon_berzerk (Mar 31, 2015)

Care4all said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...




you dont like to show the costs or out of pockets why is that 

Zip Code: 90210
Total household income: $20,000
Household members: 1




Your monthly premium

$121.03

After premium assistance of $46.00

*Out-of-pocket maximum (Individual )Tooltip Help text The most you can pay for health expenses before the plan pays for all medical care. This includes the deductible, copayments at doctor's offices, and the percentage of medical expenses (called coinsurance). After you reach the maximum, the insurance company covers all medical care expenses. Help text finished*
$4000

$6250

$2250


----------



## Care4all (Mar 31, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...


Why would you want a plan with no deductible at all unless you were planning on or knew you were gravely ill and was going to be in the hospital 24/7 or going to the Doctor 7 times a week, 52 weeks a year?

For $76 dollars a month premium, this guy making $20k has to pay nothing for his wellness visit and then only $15 for his doctor's visits after that, and even if he needs lab work, his deductible is only $15 and if he needs x rays his deductibles is only $20?  He has a yearly deductible of $500 but that does NOT have to be paid all upfront...as shown above he pays $15 deductible for Lab work, and then that $15 comes out of the total deductible of the yearly $500.

My State has similar Silver 87 Plans for those poorer citizens, cost Sharing Reduction Plans as California, and I am certain, every State does, since it is part of the Law itself.


----------



## Care4all (Mar 31, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...


It's on there, on one of the cut and paste charts, it says his total out of pocket on the year before Insurance comes in and pays 100% OF EVERYTHING would be $2250 yr.  (near the bottom)


----------



## RKMBrown (Mar 31, 2015)

Care4all said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...


Yes, I'm sure there are certain situations where even larger amounts of tax payer funds can be used to lower the out of pocket expenses for some of these welfare recipients. There will also be cases where the bronze plan makes more sense.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Apr 1, 2015)

Care4all said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



*Why would you want a plan with no deductible at all *

who the fuck wouldnt 

are ya frikkin nutz or what 

medicaid has zero deductibles for example 

you get more absurd by the post


----------



## Roadrunner (Apr 1, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...


I still don't see what PP/ACA offers the poor that they did not have with Medicaid.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Apr 1, 2015)

Care4all said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...


----------



## iamwhatiseem (Apr 1, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> A $5000 deductable policy is not fair to anyone
> 
> That is why we need Universal Healthcare



Blame Obama


----------



## jon_berzerk (Apr 1, 2015)

Care4all said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...




you get more absurd by the post 

you find one policy for one state 

which btw has deductibles not only for medical but drugs as well --LOL

on an information sheet not a policy 

then apply that to all the poor 

--LOL


----------



## jon_berzerk (Apr 1, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...



nothing actually less a lot less


----------



## Care4all (Apr 1, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...


I THINK YOU ARE UNAWARE OF THIS  or you would not have made that statement Road runner....but these poor people on the exchange DO NOT AND NEVER HAVE, qualified for MEDICAID....even with the very low incomes that they have...!!!!!

  If they go to the exchange to apply for the Obamacare insurance and they qualify for MEDICAID, then they CAN NOT get one of the bronze, silver, or gold insurance policies on the Exchange and get government subsidies....  they are denied the exchange and shuffled to State MEDICAID.


----------



## Care4all (Apr 1, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...


You gave the example of paying around $450 a month as the premium to have a NO DEDUCTIBLE policy didn't you?

And I gave the example of paying $76 a month with subsidy or $126 a month without subsidy assistance for an insurance plan that covers 87 percent of all his medical needs including hospitalization with a $500 accumulating deductible and YOU would really pick a $450 a month plan just so you can have no deductibles?


----------



## Care4all (Apr 1, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...



I totally disagree.  The poorest on the exchange never qualified for MEDICAID, so they never had healthcare insurance....those without healthcare insurance die younger than those with insurance or with the money to routinely visit their doctors and get all of the routine tests for their age groups....  They tend to become sicker and gravely ill....with their health care through the emergency rooms...all quite expensive and very poor preventative care.

The poorest on the exchange with COST SHARING Reductions along with subsidy help are much better off, especially in the long run.

The middle class that do not have insurance through their employer and did not previously buy insurance, and have gone to the exchange.... I'm certain are in sticker shock...

But the poorest qualifiers on the exchange are taken care of IF THEY SELECT a SILVER plan....

And they should be encouraged to select a Silver plan with the ADDITIONAL cost sharing reductions given to them and NOT to select a Bronze plan.


----------



## Roadrunner (Apr 1, 2015)

Care4all said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...


I made it a point all my life not to be poor.

If I wasn't making enough money, I upped my skills set.

I advise the poor to do that and quit being dependent.

We have the fattest poor on earth, and most of their health problems are because we feed them too damned much.

Poor is a state of mind that can be overcome.

No sympathy here.


----------



## Care4all (Apr 1, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...


Sure!
Just hit the Easy Peasy Button!


----------



## Roadrunner (Apr 1, 2015)

Care4all said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...


In the land of free basic education, and free trade school, poverty is a choice.

Known too many poor blacks and whites that escaped it.

Sorry if that does not jive with your image of the poor.


----------



## Care4all (Apr 1, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...


Jimminey Cricket, ignorance continues to be bliss for you, eh?


----------



## Care4all (Apr 1, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...


It's been done by many who are poor, I've done it myself....  but I had a middle class family with both parents, still married to each other and excellent schools.... and although my parents never lent a hand financially during my poverty period, they were a backbone to my eventual success and drive to succeed on my own.....

It still was not easy, and one road block after another to make it through, one flat tire that sets you back again, one high fever cold that keeps you away from your hourly wage of which you need every penny that sets you back again etc etc etc.....  sure it can be done, but in no way can it be done by everyone, all of the time....unless we give them a leg up....a good education would be a good start.


----------



## Roadrunner (Apr 1, 2015)

Care4all said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...



Two top causes of poverty are dropping out and having babies out of wedlock.

Both, bad personal choices.


----------



## RKMBrown (Apr 2, 2015)

Care4all said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...


Yawn. You're not special.  The only people who don't make it on their own are the ones that buy into the bullcarp meme that the man is holding them down.


----------



## Care4all (Apr 2, 2015)

RKMBrown said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...


Only for someone shallow, like you appear to be...with the inability to put themselves in someone elses shoes, with the inability to empathize, with the inability to see all that is in front of the other person struggling....

Sorry, I just don't have it in me, to be a pompous, cold blooded reptile...

Nor am I completely blind or do I think I am something "special", what I was saying is that I am aware that I had a good family as my backbone, that gave me the education and drive to succeed, if not just by the luxuries that I was accustomed to when living and relying on them as my parents that also gave me incentive to get out of poverty and the security of knowing that my parents did it, so I could do it too attitude....

NOT ALL people have such family backbone...  they can still succeed, but in no way am I going to think they can do it as easy as I could do it...  It's a battle and a struggle the whole way out of poverty for some, and for some, they never make it...and some never even had a chance of making it out of poverty...some due to their own early in life mistakes, but some, because everything is stacked against them....beginning with a lousy home life and poor education.


----------



## RKMBrown (Apr 2, 2015)

Care4all said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...


Your empathy for failure is what makes some people fail.  If a kid "flunks" a class cause he didn't study for it, I'm sure you'll pat them on the back and "empathize" with them.

.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Apr 2, 2015)

Care4all said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...


oh my --LOL


----------



## jon_berzerk (Apr 2, 2015)

Roadrunner said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...


yup


----------

