# Vanishing Glaciers Of The Greater Himalaya - Photographic evidence



## RollingThunder (Oct 11, 2011)

Anthropogenic global warming is melting the world's glaciers at increasing rates. This poses some grave dangers to the vast populations around the world who are dependent on glacial melt water feeding into the river systems as a supply of water for drinking and agriculture in the dry summer months. The glaciers of the Himalayas are mostly shrinking rapidly and these glaciers are the source of water for hundreds of millions of people in India and China. Some mountaineer photographers recently took current photos of many glaciers from the same spots that photos were taken many decades ago, showing the changes in the ice very clearly. Take a look.

*Rivers of ice: Vanishing glaciers
Stunning images from high in the Himalayas - showing the extent by which many glaciers have shrunk in the past 80 years or so - have gone on display at the Royal Geographical Society in central London.*
10 October 2011


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## Old Rocks (Oct 11, 2011)

USGS Release: Glaciers Retreating in Asia (8/25/2010 10:33:00 AM)


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## wirebender (Oct 12, 2011)

Now all you have to do is provide some hard, observed, repeatable evidence that man is responsible.  

By the way:

* Which physical law supports and predicts a greenhouse effect as described by warmists? *


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## RollingThunder (Oct 12, 2011)

wirebender said:


> Now all you have to do is provide some hard, observed, repeatable evidence that man is responsible.
> 
> By the way:
> 
> * Which physical law supports and predicts a greenhouse effect as described by warmists? *



That's been done many times by a number of people, wiredwrong, but you are just tooooooo retarded, confused and brainwashed to get it so nobody is going to waste much time with your nonsense anymore.

But just by the way, you poor silly retard, the greenhouse effect is an observed phenomena. What you call 'physical laws' are attempts to make generalizations about reality based on observed phenomena. Observed phenomena don't need a "physical law" to "predict or support" them to make them real. Nevertheless there are "laws" of radiative physics that do explain the greenhouse effect. Those "laws", developed over the last century and a half or so, are partially based on direct observations of the IR trapping qualities of greenhouse gases.

*How do we know that humans are the major cause of global warming?*


*Global Warming: How Do Scientists Know They're Not Wrong?*


*Empirical evidence that humans are causing global warming*


*Evidence For Human-Caused Global Warming Is Now 'Unequivocal' *


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## strollingbones (Oct 12, 2011)

gob smacked?


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## skookerasbil (Oct 12, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Anthropogenic global warming is melting the world's glaciers at increasing rates. This poses some grave dangers to the vast populations around the world who are dependent on glacial melt water feeding into the river systems as a supply of water for drinking and agriculture in the dry summer months. The glaciers of the Himalayas are mostly shrinking rapidly and these glaciers are the source of water for hundreds of millions of people in India and China. Some mountaineer photographers recently took current photos of many glaciers from the same spots that photos were taken many decades ago, showing the changes in the ice very clearly. Take a look.
> 
> *Rivers of ice: Vanishing glaciers
> Stunning images from high in the Himalayas - showing the extent by which many glaciers have shrunk in the past 80 years or so - have gone on display at the Royal Geographical Society in central London.*
> 10 October 2011





So........whats the point s0n?

I laugh my balls off when I see threads like these posted up in this forum!!! Like......what is this? A public service announcement?

Whats the point?


Should we all be "stunned"? And lets say we all are "stunned"? So what? Are you proud of yourself this morning for stunning us? Is that the point?


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## skookerasbil (Oct 12, 2011)

*How do we know that humans are the major cause of global warming?


Global Warming: How Do Scientists Know They're Not Wrong?


Empirical evidence that humans are causing global warming


Evidence For Human-Caused Global Warming Is Now 'Unequivocal'*


-------------------------------------------




Like I said over a year ago on here. Nobody cares. Its 2011..........nobody cares about this shit anymore. k00ks like Rolling Thunder fall all over themselves publicizing the alarmist crap for years, and as each year passes, less and less people give a rats ass.


What do psychiatrists call folks who do things over and over and over and over and over and over again yet keep expecting a different outcome?

Mental Disorders and Symptoms Index: A Guide to Symptoms and Diagnostic Criteria





*Ooooooops!!!!!!!!*


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## skookerasbil (Oct 12, 2011)




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## Katzndogz (Oct 12, 2011)

Is this like the "adjustments" made to maps to show Greenland glaciers retreating when they were increasing?


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## konradv (Oct 12, 2011)

Tipsycatlover said:


> Is this like the "adjustments" made to maps to show Greenland glaciers retreating when they were increasing?



Got a cite that shows Greenland glaciers increasing?  PUT UP OR SHUT UP.


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## wirebender (Oct 12, 2011)

wirebender said:


> Now all you have to do is provide some hard, observed, repeatable evidence that man is responsible.
> 
> By the way:
> 
> * Which physical law supports and predicts a greenhouse effect as described by warmists? *





RollingThunder said:


> [That's been done many times by a number of people, wiredwrong, but you are just tooooooo retarded, confused and brainwashed to get it so nobody is going to waste much time with your nonsense anymore.



Sorry thunder, but it hasn't.  That is why you can't simply name the physical laws.  Do you think it has gone un noticed that after all this time, you can't simply answer the question?   I certainly don't have any problem naming the physical laws that not only don't support a greenhouse effect but explicitly forbid it.



RollingThunder said:


> But just by the way, you poor silly retard, the greenhouse effect is an observed phenomena.



Sorry again, but it isn't.  Nothing like a greenhouse effect is observed in the open atmosphere.  That is why they do those pitiful greenhouse in the bottle experiments that only serve to demonstrate ideal gas laws dealing with pressure and temperature.

You are pathetic thunder.  After all this time, still unable to give a straight answer to such a basic question.

*Name the physical law that supports and predicts a greenhouse effect as described by warmists.*


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## konradv (Oct 12, 2011)

wirebender said:


> *Name the physical law that supports and predicts a greenhouse effect as described by warmists.*



Quantum mechanics.  There, DONE!  NEXT QUESTION.


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## wirebender (Oct 12, 2011)

konradv said:


> wirebender said:
> 
> 
> > *Name the physical law that supports and predicts a greenhouse effect as described by warmists.*
> ...



Quantum mechanics is not a physical law konradv.  Quantum mechanics certainly depends on physical laws and must conform to physical laws, but is not, in itself, a physical law.

Here, read a bit so that you at least know what a physcial law is and then do feel free to try again.  I give you credit though, even though you are wrong, you are doing a better job than thunder.

Laws of science - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Old Rocks (Oct 12, 2011)

Physics of the Greenhouse Effect Pt 1 | Climate Change

Just to get a bit of this out of the way, the effective temperature of the Earth with radius r is:

&#960;r2(1 &#8211; a)S= 4&#960;r2&#963;T4, or

Teff = [S(1 -a)/4&#963;]1/4 = 255 K

We can then write an equation for the energy balance of the atmosphere, as

Iup,atmosphere + Idown, atmosphere = Iup, ground

= 2&#603;Tatmosphere4 = &#603;Tground4 (also accounting for emissivity), or

Tground = fourthroot (2Tatmosphere)

This temperature is below freezing, and so this shows that if the Earth&#8217;s temperature were purely based on the amount of solar radiation it receives, it would be far from habitable. The gap between our present day comfort, and an iceball planet is due to the fact that some of the outgoing infrared radiation is not immediately sent right back to space, but is absorbed by the atmosphere, where some is radiated downward to the surface. This is due to the fact that we have greenhouse gases, which are transparent to incoming solar radiation, but absorb outgoing infrared radiation strongly. The mean surface temperature difference is,

&#916; T &#8801; Ts &#8211; Teff = 33 K

The mean temperature of the Earth&#8217;s surface is actually 288 K, which says that the greenhouse gases are responsible for a 33 K enhancement. No longer freezing, but rather comfortable and unique to the solar system.

So what is going with this greenhouse??

The following image shows a spectra at the top of the atmosphere which shows the absorption of photons by CO2, water vapor, ozone, etc.

*Of course, Bent is going to throw out some garbage math just as the people who are constantly claiming to disprove Einstein do. Simple fact is that virtually all the physicists on earth state that the greenhouse effect is real, and that by burning fossil fuels, we are raising the temperature of the earth.*


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 12, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Anthropogenic global warming is melting the world's glaciers at increasing rates. This poses some grave dangers to the vast populations around the world who are dependent on glacial melt water feeding into the river systems as a supply of water for drinking and agriculture in the dry summer months. The glaciers of the Himalayas are mostly shrinking rapidly and these glaciers are the source of water for hundreds of millions of people in India and China. Some mountaineer photographers recently took current photos of many glaciers from the same spots that photos were taken many decades ago, showing the changes in the ice very clearly. Take a look.
> 
> *Rivers of ice: Vanishing glaciers
> Stunning images from high in the Himalayas - showing the extent by which many glaciers have shrunk in the past 80 years or so - have gone on display at the Royal Geographical Society in central London.*
> 10 October 2011



OMG! Glaciers have never shrunk before.
I'm convinced.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 12, 2011)

Well, Todd, I am convinced that you are stupid. Care to try to make and intelligent statement?


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## konradv (Oct 12, 2011)

wirebender said:


> konradv said:
> 
> 
> > wirebender said:
> ...



I said DONE!!!  Quantum mechanics IS the answer.  Trying to wriggle out of it just further demonstrates your ignorance of physics, as most of us except gslack and yourself, know it!!!


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## Trajan (Oct 12, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Anthropogenic global warming is melting the world's glaciers at increasing rates. This poses some grave dangers to the vast populations around the world who are dependent on glacial melt water feeding into the river systems as a supply of water for drinking and agriculture in the dry summer months. The glaciers of the Himalayas are mostly shrinking rapidly and these glaciers are the source of water for hundreds of millions of people in India and China. Some mountaineer photographers recently took current photos of many glaciers from the same spots that photos were taken many decades ago, showing the changes in the ice very clearly. Take a look.
> 
> *Rivers of ice: Vanishing glaciers
> Stunning images from high in the Himalayas - showing the extent by which many glaciers have shrunk in the past 80 years or so - have gone on display at the Royal Geographical Society in central London.*
> 10 October 2011




and what exactly is the point exactly?  aside from Armageddon?


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## wirebender (Oct 12, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Physics of the Greenhouse Effect Pt 1 | Climate Change
> 
> Just to get a bit of this out of the way, the effective temperature of the Earth with radius r is:
> 
> ...



Rocks, if your equation is built upon the radius of the earth, why does it present incoming radiation as if it were hitting a flat body with no curvature? Your equation divides incoming radiation by 4 making the surface of the earth a flat surface being irradiated by incoming radiation that is 1/4 the strength of the actual incoming radiation rather than by 2 making it a sphere that is being irradiated across 180 degrees of its surface and dark across 180 degrees of its surface. 

Also, is that a derivation of Stefan-Boltzman?  If so, which derivation, by whom, based on what, and where is it supported in the physics literature?

How do you expect a formula that doesn't represent the earth as it is to predict temperature with any degree of accuracy? Also, if you apply that formula to any other body in our solar system, the result doesn't even come close to the known reality. It is an ad hoc formula put together to reach a pre determined quantity.

Don't worry rocks, I don't expect you to actually answer my question as we both know that you don't have the slightest understanding of what you posted. If you did, you wouldn't have posted it in the first place.


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## wirebender (Oct 12, 2011)

konradv said:


> I said DONE!!!  Quantum mechanics IS the answer.  Trying to wriggle out of it just further demonstrates your ignorance of physics, as most of us except gslack and yourself, know it!!!



Quantum mechanics is not the answer konradv.  You are way over your head here and you just sound silly trying ot shit out an answer.  I can tell you which physical laws say that no greenhouse effect as described by warmists is possible easily enough.  The law of conservation of energy for one.  Also the first and second laws of thermodynamics.  If a physical law supports and predicts a greenhouse effect as described by warmists, why is it that none of you guys can name it.  

A hypothesis not supported by, or predicted by the laws of physics isn't worth the effort it takes to state it.  So tell me konradv, which law of physics specifically supports and predicts a greenhouse effect as described by warmists?

And don't make me laugh by calling me ignorant of physics when you shout out "quantum physics" in answer to a question that requires the naming of a law of physics.  How much more ignorant could you possibly be?


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## Old Rocks (Oct 12, 2011)

http://www.mathaware.org/mam/09/essays/Radiative_balance.pdf

A student of the science, not a internet board dillante. 

Oh who to believe, Bentwire, or the practicing physicists.


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## skookerasbil (Oct 12, 2011)

Hate to throw cold water on yet another dopey Rolling Thunder thread but.........it after all is my duty............

October 1, 2011 
*Green Energy Industry Staggers*


As the Energy Department hustled to get another $4.7 billion in loan guarantees for green tech companies out the door before time ran out and the program ended last week, yet another solar panel manufacturer was wilting in the sun, and the green jobs scam was looking more threadbare than ever. Says the WSJ:

Solar-power equipment manufacturer Stirling Energy Systems Inc. has filed for bankruptcy, adding to a wave of troubles in the solar industry amid soft demand, falling prices and difficulty raising money. [&#8230; ] Both [of the company&#8217;s plants] were sited on public land in California and obtained fast-track construction permits from the Obama administration.

*The filing is the latest in a string of U.S. solar company bankruptcies, as soft global demand for solar power, falling prices and a glut of solar panels from Asia have hammered manufacturers.*

Surprise, surprise: the American &#8220;green energy&#8221; industry faces much the same problems as everyone else in this economy. Solar firms still have to compete with Chinese labor (and massive Chinese government subsidies further enhanced by cheap Chinese currency).

But there&#8217;s another factor behind the failure of so many Obama administration initiatives in this field. * Because alternative energy generation is expensive and inefficient*, it requires some combination of subsidies, high energy prices and forced purchases to make these investments pay off.

The Solyndra guarantee and related programs were all developed back in the heady early days of the Obama administrations when delusional greens thought their global agenda was on the verge of being realized.  Cap and trade and other aggressive energy policies would artificially jack up energy prices in the US to the point where demand for solar and other alternative energy would grow.  The global carbon treaty would provide a permanent source of demand for green energy.

The political assumptions underlying the green investment boomlet turned out to be false.  There will be no global carbon regime for the foreseeable future; there will be no cap and trade and no aggressive federal programs to raise energy prices during the deepest recession since World War Two.

Perhaps even worse from the green point of view, a cascade of discoveries and technological advances has dramatically increased the supplies of oil and gas in the western hemisphere &#8212; including huge new domestic energy supplies in places like Pennsylvania, Ohio and upstate New York.  *These discoveries are devastating to the politics of the environmental movement.*


Green Energy Industry Staggers | Via Meadia






Like Ive been saying...........these ongoing debates about ice and temperatures is an exercise akin to group navel contemplation. The posts I throw up are the only posts which bring an objective truth..............which obstensibly means.......... Im winning. 

Its 2011..........its time for everybody to wake up and smell the maple nut crunch. Zero money + zero political will = climate change debate is a debate nobody cares about except those who's personal lives are in need of a beer and a plan.


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## wirebender (Oct 13, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> http://www.mathaware.org/mam/09/essays/Radiative_balance.pdf
> 
> A student of the science, not a internet board dillante.
> 
> Oh who to believe, Bentwire, or the practicing physicists.



You didn't answer my question rocks, and neither did your post.  As I said, not to worry, because you don't understand any of it anyway.  You just picked your favorite "bible" story because you liked the way the equations looked.


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## RollingThunder (Oct 13, 2011)

skookerasbil said:


> Hate to throw cold water on yet another dopey Rolling Thunder thread but.........it after all is my duty............
> 
> October 1, 2011
> *Green Energy Industry Staggers*
> ...



I guess it's not too surprising that a clueless retard like you, kookster, would insert some garbage pro-oil opinion piece from the Wall Street Journal concerning global solar markets and green energy into a thread whose topic is the melting of the Himalayan glaciers due to anthropogenic global warming, and think it has some significance or relevance. You poor, poor retard, you're just plain too stupid to get it. The climate changes the world is going through will continue to occur and have real world consequences entirely independent from mankind's transient economic market fluctuations. Continuing with a business as usual course with fossil fuels and ever increasing CO2 emissions is a path to world destruction. We will either make the transition to non polluting renewable energy sources or we will kill ourselves and the planet by being too stupid collectively to both face the reality of the mistakes we've made and to do better.

You, as usual, have no idea what is going on.

Nor do the stooges at the WSJ....

*World Renewable Energy Demand To Surge, Costs To Fall, Says UN Report

Japan To Ditch More Nuclear Power And Develop Renewables Instead

China Increases Renewable Energy Goals, Again

Renewables are the Worlds Fastest-Growing Energy Source*
September 20, 2011


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## IanC (Oct 13, 2011)

as always, the problem is attribution. the global temp has gone up less than 1K in the last 100+ years, much of that before significant manmade CO2 rise. glaciers and ice packs have shrunk and grown many times in the past according to their own schedule. warmers try to lay all the blame at the feet of mankind for burning fossil fuels but they are far from proving even the CO2 contribution with any certainty, and are even less certain of the other factors both known and unknown. I am all for continued study but I am against crippling our economy and cutting the quality of life in the hope that CO2 is the ultimate climate control knob, and more importantly, that we can control it in any meaningful way.


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## skookerasbil (Oct 13, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> skookerasbil said:
> 
> 
> > Hate to throw cold water on yet another dopey Rolling Thunder thread but.........it after all is my duty............
> ...





The k00ks on this particular forum keep me coming back!! A gift that keeps on giving!! k00ks always think that wishing hard enough about something makes it happen.......as if the vast minority holds any sway on public policy.

The majority, thankfully, know that when you cant pay your mortgage, you cant go buy that high end Mercedes. In the world of the k00ks however, anything is possible.........of course, they have the political IQ's of a small soap dish!!



Its good to be the clueless retard king!!!


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 13, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> skookerasbil said:
> 
> 
> > Hate to throw cold water on yet another dopey Rolling Thunder thread but.........it after all is my duty............
> ...



*the melting of the Himalayan glaciers due to anthropogenic global warming*

How much is due to fossil fuels, how much due to other sources of CO2 and how much due to solar or other natural fluctuations?


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## Old Rocks (Oct 13, 2011)

There are no other comparable sources of CO2, mankind puts out over 100 times as much as volcanoes, the ocean both emits and obsorbs CO2, and, at present, is absorbing more than it is emitting. We are the source of the increase in CO2 in the atmosphere, and until the Arctic permafrost and clathrates kick in, will remain so.

The solar TSI is still lower than it has been for the last 50 years. Rising, but still lower. 

The sun is the sole source of surface heat for our planet. Atmospheric retention of that heat due to GHGs is the factor that keeps our oceans from being frozen down to the equator. We have added 40% more CO2, and 150% more CH4, plus numerous industrial GHGs that have no natural analog, some of which are thousands of times as potent a GHG as CO2. 

The warming we are experiancing is a creation of our own making.


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## RollingThunder (Oct 13, 2011)

skookerasbil said:


> Its good to be the clueless retard king!!!



And there you have it! The kookster is, by his own admission, the king of the clueless retards.

Of  course, anyone reading this forum already knew that but it is very funny that he is actually stupid enough to admit it.


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## 2twsted4colorTV (Oct 13, 2011)

IanC said:


> as always, the problem is attribution. the global temp has gone up less than 1K in the last 100+ years, much of that before significant manmade CO2 rise. glaciers and ice packs have shrunk and grown many times in the past according to their own schedule. warmers try to lay all the blame at the feet of mankind for burning fossil fuels but they are far from proving even the CO2 contribution with any certainty, and are even less certain of the other factors both known and unknown. I am all for continued study but I am against crippling our economy and cutting the quality of life in the hope that CO2 is the ultimate climate control knob, and more importantly, that we can control it in any meaningful way.



I totally agree. The glaciers on Mt. Rainier are not melting.  The ocean currents determine much of the climate. We on the west coast are in for another La Nina this year which means colder than normal. 

If man burning fossil fuels has caused global warming, then what caused the end of the ice age thousands of years ago when there was no "man" and no burning of fossil fuels.  Wouldn't it stand to reason that man is NOT the cause of this. If we could control the climate, well I think we are doing a damn poor job of it. I want hot summers and cold winters, thank you, and I got cold winter, but a cold summer, too.  If humans can control climate, what took them so long to bring rain to Texas?  

NOAA La Niña Page


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## westwall (Oct 13, 2011)

Oh, looky here, trolling blunder giving us more alarmist horse crap, how original, as usual the truth is quite different, not that a incompetent twit like blunder would know the difference

As usual, the IPCC is full of shit.

Himalayan glaciers advancing, despite global warming
Charu Sudan Kasturi, Hindustan Times
New Delhi, January 25, 2011  Email to Author

First Published: 18:54 IST(25/1/2011)
Last Updated: 23:29 IST(25/1/2011)Share more...10 Comments           Email     print 

Several glaciers in the greater Himalayas are either advancing or are stable, American and German researchers have found, corroborating India's stand against a controversial prediction by the UN's climate change agency that the glaciers would vanish by 2030. More than 50% of the glaciers in the Karakoram region of the northwest Himalayas are stable or are advancing, the scientists have reported in this week's Nature Geoscience journal.

Dirk Scherler and Manfred Strecker from Potsdam University, Germany and Bodo Bookhagen from the University of California Santa Barbara used remoter sensing images to track frontal changes and surface velocities of glaciers in the greater Himalaya between 2000 and 2008.

They found wide variations in the response of glaciers in the different parts of the Himalayas to climate change.

The research paper argues that the variations are a result of differences in the debris cover enjoyed by different glaciers  a factor that has so far been neglected while studying the impact of climate change on glaciers.

The scientists found that while more than 65% of all Himalayan glaciers studied were retreating, the glaciers in the Tibetan plateau, where debris cover is largely absent, are retreating fastest.

Glaciers in the central Himalaya region are relatively better covered by debris and typically have stable fronts, the scientists argued.

But possibly the most surprising finding of the research relates to the Karakoram region, where more than half the glaciers are stable or are even advancing.

The findings support India's opposition to claims by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)  the UN's climate change agency -- in 2008 of the Himalayan glaciers disappearing.

Indian scientists had countered the IPCC claims by presenting their own data that suggested that any impact of climate change on the Himalayan glaciers was far more subtle and complicated than the IPCC had suggested.



http://www.hindustantimes.com/Himal...espite-global-warming/H1-Article1-654581.aspx


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## RollingThunder (Oct 13, 2011)

westwall said:


> Oh, looky here, trolling blunder giving us more alarmist horse crap, how original, as usual the truth is quite different, not that a incompetent twit like blunder would know the difference
> 
> As usual, the IPCC is full of shit.
> 
> ...



As usual, walleyed, you are full of shit.

Some key quotes from that article that the walleyedretard is a bit too stupid to understand.

*"Several glaciers in the greater Himalayas are either advancing or are stable"

"They found wide variations in the response of glaciers in the different parts of the Himalayas to climate change. The research paper argues that the variations are a result of differences in the debris cover enjoyed by different glaciers..." 

"The scientists found that while more than 65% of all Himalayan glaciers studied were retreating, the glaciers in the Tibetan plateau, where debris cover is largely absent, are retreating fastest."*


And here some different and more complete reporting of that same article from the Nature Geoscience journal.

*CLIMATE CHANGE: Not all Himalayan glaciers are melting*

*JOHANNESBURG, 27 January 2011 (IRIN) - A new study shows that while some glaciers in the Karakoram region of the northwestern Himalayas, which feed the River Indus, are stable, more than 65 percent of the glaciers fed by monsoons in the central Himalayas are melting.

"Our study shows that there is no uniform response of the Himalayan glaciers to climate change," said Dirk Scherler, one of three researchers who produced the study published in the current edition of Nature Geoscience, a monthly journal.

Scherler and one of his co-researchers, Manfred Strecker, are at the Institute of Earth and Environmental Science at the University Potsdam, Germany, while the third, Bodo Bookhagen, is at the University of California.

"The glaciers [in the Karakoram] might not be melting for a number of reasons&#8230; precipitation, cloudiness - it is difficult to say." Moisture brought by the monsoon falls as snow and forms ice, building the glaciers.

The three-year study, one of the first to cover a large area of the Hindu Kush-Himalaya region - sometimes referred to as the Third Pole because it has the largest expanse of frozen water outside of the Polar Regions - looked at remotely sensed changes at the front of the glaciers, and their surface velocities between 2000 and 2008.

Information on the state and behaviour of the region&#8217;s glaciers is critical because they feed 10 rivers that provide water to 20 percent of the world's population. Changes in glacier ice or snow-melt affect the glacier&#8217;s storage capacity, and the flow of water downstream. 

Most scientists acknowledge that rising global temperatures mean more work needs to be done on the Third Pole region, as not enough is known about glaciers.

Read more
TAJIKISTAN: Melting glaciers pose growing threat in the Pamirs
NEPAL: Global warming swells glacial lakes, endangering thousands
NEPAL: Mountain communities fear melting glaciers, flooding
 video -Melting Glaciers

A joint study from 1999 to 2003 by the International Centre for Integrated Mountain Development (ICIMOD), a Nepal-based research centre supported by eight governments in the region, the UN Environment Programme (UNEP), and the Asia-Pacific Network for Global Change Research (APN), documented about 15,000 glaciers and 9,000 glacial lakes in Bhutan, Nepal, Pakistan and selected basins in China and India.

Scherler said they had studied 40 glaciers in an area of about 3,000sq km in the Karakoram. "It is a small area if you consider the fact that the entire ice-covered area, according to one estimate, in the Karakoram region is about 16,000 square kilometres."

Monsoon-influenced glaciers have been retreating in the central rugged Himalayan region. The researchers found that debris from the mountains was choking the flow of water into a number of glaciers, which was not a good sign. Scherler said there was a need to study the debris so as to understand the demise of glaciers.

A number of studies between 1999 and 2001 have backed the link between climate change and glacier melting. "The Himalayan glaciers have retreated by approximately a kilometre since the Little Ice Age [from 1350 to 1900]," said a joint study by ICIMOD and UNEP.

"Himalayan glaciers are retreating at rates ranging from 10m to 60m per year, and many small glaciers (less than 0.2sq km) have already disappeared." 

A sustained glacier retreat will increase the volume of water in rivers, and also sediments, which can choke water supply, affecting agriculture.

When glaciers retreat, lakes commonly form behind the newly exposed debris - soil and rock called a moraine - carried along by the front edge of the ice wall. The ICIMOD/UNEP study said the rapid accumulation of water in these lakes could lead to a sudden breach of the moraine dam, causing a possibly catastrophic glacial lake outburst flood (GLOF).

In the recent past, Nepal alone has been affected by 21 GLOF events, and 200 potentially dangerous glacial lakes have been documented across the Himalayan region. *

Copyright © IRIN 2011. All rights reserved - Terms and Conditions of Use - The reproduction of unaltered IRIN material, with attribution (see below), and for non-commercial purposes *is permitted* subject to these supplementary terms and conditions: LIMITED COMMERCIAL USE - *Republication of IRIN Materials in* newspapers and magazines, media-related and *other non-subscription web sites is permitted*, with proper attribution

_(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)_


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## Old Rocks (Oct 13, 2011)

2twsted4colorTV said:


> IanC said:
> 
> 
> > as always, the problem is attribution. the global temp has gone up less than 1K in the last 100+ years, much of that before significant manmade CO2 rise. glaciers and ice packs have shrunk and grown many times in the past according to their own schedule. warmers try to lay all the blame at the feet of mankind for burning fossil fuels but they are far from proving even the CO2 contribution with any certainty, and are even less certain of the other factors both known and unknown. I am all for continued study but I am against crippling our economy and cutting the quality of life in the hope that CO2 is the ultimate climate control knob, and more importantly, that we can control it in any meaningful way.
> ...



*The glaciers of Mt. Rainier are not melting? Are you daft? Or just blind?*

Mt. Rainier's retreating glaciers are making a mess - CSMonitor.com

The fallout from Mt. Rainier's shrinking glaciers is beginning to roll downhill, and nowhere is the impact more striking than on the volcano's west side.

 "This is it in spades," says Park Service geologist Paul Kennard, scrambling up a 10-foot-tall mass of dirt and boulders bulldozed back just enough to clear the road.

As receding glaciers expose crumbly slopes, vast amounts of gravel and sediment are being sluiced into the rivers that flow from the Northwest's tallest peak. Much of the material sweeps down in rain-driven slurries called debris flows, like those that repeatedly have slammed Mt. Rainier National Park's Westside Road.

"The rivers are filling up with stuff," Mr. Kennard says from his vantage point atop the pile. He pointed out ancient stands of fir and cedar now up to their knees in water.

Inside park boundaries, rivers choked with gravel are threatening to spill across roads, bump up against the bottom of bridges and flood the historic complex at Longmire

*Now Bozo, have you ever heard of the Milankovic Cycles? Or doing a bit of research before demonstrating to the world the depths of your ignorance.*


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## Old Rocks (Oct 13, 2011)

Hey Walleyes, the USGS says that once again you are full of shit.

http://pubs.usgs.gov/pp/p1386f/pdf/Asia_front_pgs.pdf


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## westwall (Oct 13, 2011)

I'll go with Indian sources for things happening in India over your proven lying sources any day of the week.  Remember MENSA BOY once a liar allways a liar and the IPCC has been lying through their ass!  No wonder you suck them off all the time.


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## RollingThunder (Oct 13, 2011)

westwall said:


> once a liar allways(sic) a liar



And that sums you up perfectly.


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## gslack (Oct 13, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Anthropogenic global warming is melting the world's glaciers at increasing rates. This poses some grave dangers to the vast populations around the world who are dependent on glacial melt water feeding into the river systems as a supply of water for drinking and agriculture in the dry summer months. The glaciers of the Himalayas are mostly shrinking rapidly and these glaciers are the source of water for hundreds of millions of people in India and China. Some mountaineer photographers recently took current photos of many glaciers from the same spots that photos were taken many decades ago, showing the changes in the ice very clearly. Take a look.
> 
> *Rivers of ice: Vanishing glaciers
> Stunning images from high in the Himalayas - showing the extent by which many glaciers have shrunk in the past 80 years or so - have gone on display at the Royal Geographical Society in central London.*
> 10 October 2011



Wait a minute... Your article states that glaciers melting due to AGW is causing a shortage of water??????

How the hell is more meaning less? What kind of messed up twisted bleeding heart "its bad cause i said so" anti-logic is that? If the ice melts it makes more water. What is it suddenly not going to create more ice in winter? 

Blunder your links continue to go down... Why in the hell do you keep posting links from third party aggregating software? Are you aware the actual use of those is to go to the site and actually link it there if you want to link to it? The reason being the long list of redirects it takes to get to it through the software makes the link generated for it unstable. In other words if you link to it through third party software like you do, it has to go through all kinds of added hyperlinks, ads, spyware, and other garbage to get there, and just one of those links times out and it fails.. Got it?

here is the way your link looks in text.

"http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=773&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmessageboard.com%2Fenvironment%2F189019-vanishing-glaciers-of-the-greater-himalaya-photographic-evidence.html&v=1&libid=1318560941164&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworld-south-asia-15216875&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmessageboard.com%2Fenvironment%2F&title=Vanishing%20Glaciers%20Of%20The%20Greater%20Himalaya%20-%20Photographic%20evidence%20-%20US%20Message%20Board%20-%20Political%20Discussion%20Forum&txt=Rivers%20of%20ice%3A%20Vanishing%20glaciers&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13185609700192"

just look at that shit... Where the hell is it going? who the hell knows. why doesn't it go directly to the site? Because people like you want to use a piece of spyware, web tracking garbage to do your work for you rather than go and look and post it for yourself. Lazy assholes can't even post a simple link on their own..

For a visual difference.. here is a link straight to it in text

"www.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworld-south-asia"

and your link in text...

"http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=773&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmessageboard.com%2Fenvironment%2F189019-vanishing-glaciers-of-the-greater-himalaya-photographic-evidence.html&v=1&libid=1318560941164&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworld-south-asia-15216875&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmessageboard.com%2Fenvironment%2F&title=Vanishing%20Glaciers%20Of%20The%20Greater%20Himalaya%20-%20Photographic%20evidence%20-%20US%20Message%20Board%20-%20Political%20Discussion%20Forum&txt=Rivers%20of%20ice%3A%20Vanishing%20glaciers&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13185609700192"

See the difference? Damn dude, stop being so damn lazy..

Now fix it and stop using that software its garbage.

Actual link BBC News - Rivers of ice: Vanishing glaciers

That one is reliable and stable going straight to the article.. I will be back with a detailed ass whuppin for this later..


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## westwall (Oct 13, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > once a liar allways(sic) a liar
> ...







Post a single lie I've ever uttered then.  I made the same challenge to olfraud over a year ago and the MENSA BOY hasn't been able to post one.


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## gslack (Oct 13, 2011)

Told ya id be back with a detailed ass whuppin...

Here goes...

What time of year did they go there? Was it winter, spring, summer or fall? And why was that link to a video and not a full article? The link you sent us too was bloated with redirects I found the video on the bbc.uk news site you supposedly linked to. fact is ya didn't link to it, you linked to some other assholes interpretation of it...

Got an explanation for that? No didn't think so... Fact is you don't even actually know what it was and didn't bother to check you just grab a bunch pro AGW headlines and synopses from a aggregation tool and post to a bunch of web forums like a Greenpeace automaton..

You and your bullshit is now my pet project... I am going to watch you and your clones closely from now on. Every time I catch you posting this way here, I will make sure people realize what kind of mindless forum robot you are... Best get off your lazy cheetoh-eating moms basement dwelling ass and post with some integrity because i will point it out when you don't...


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## RollingThunder (Oct 13, 2011)

westwall said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



Sure...a couple of posts ago...LOL....you retarded liar.



westwall said:


> the IPCC has been lying through their ass!


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## gslack (Oct 14, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



Good point to his lie then...

You know like I pointed out what a tool you are posting to aggregated links you don't even go to... 

Why do you force people to go through all kinds of who knows what or where to check on what you post? You trying to get people a PC infection or something? Do they go to some kind of malware or spyware you are pushing? Or are you behind a proxy? Why are you behind a proxy? Hiding something? Other than multiple identities?

Why did your link imply an article when it was someones interpretation of a video? Why did you not just post or link to the video directly?

Trolling blunder you sir are nothing more than a run of the mill internet phony. you make money sending people through all those redirects or what?

Troll, I am WAY too detail oriented to let shit like this go. Best to start posting legit here...


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## gslack (Oct 14, 2011)

PEOPLE!

DO NOT FOLLOW TROLLINGBLUNDERS LINKS!

They are aggregated through a third party. Be it due to his hiding behind a proxy (or mutliples of ) to hide something like multiple identities, or a news headline aggregating service or software, the fact is his links send you through multiple redirects to who knows where or what. Thats is why his links often stop working. Its possible he just grabs links directly from a google search but the length of his URL's tell me its something more.

This is completely unsafe, unreliable, and unnecessary. A sample of his link..

_"http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=773&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usm essageboard.com%2Fenvironment%2F189019-vanishing-glaciers-of-the-greater-himalaya-photographic-evidence.html&v=1&libid=1318560941164&out=http%3A% 2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworld-south-asia-15216875&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmessageboard.com%2 Fenvironment%2F&title=Vanishing%20Glaciers%20Of%20 The%20Greater%20Himalaya%20-%20Photographic%20evidence%20-%20US%20Message%20Board%20-%20Political%20Discussion%20Forum&txt=Rivers%20of% 20ice%3A%20Vanishing%20glaciers&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_ 13185609700192"_

and now an actual link to that video..

_"www.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworld-south-asia"_

See the problem? yeah his links are usually like that. I cannot stress enough how unsafe it is to follow links like those.. You don't know where they go, why they go there, or what you may be inadvertently picking up on the way.


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## westwall (Oct 14, 2011)

gslack said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...







He can't.  His head is so far in rectal defilade all he see's is brown.


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## RollingThunder (Oct 14, 2011)

gslack said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > Anthropogenic global warming is melting the world's glaciers at increasing rates. This poses some grave dangers to the vast populations around the world who are dependent on glacial melt water feeding into the river systems as a supply of water for drinking and agriculture in the dry summer months. The glaciers of the Himalayas are mostly shrinking rapidly and these glaciers are the source of water for hundreds of millions of people in India and China. Some mountaineer photographers recently took current photos of many glaciers from the same spots that photos were taken many decades ago, showing the changes in the ice very clearly. Take a look.
> ...


No moron, AGW does not cause a shortage of water, except in areas like our Southwest where it is involved in the severe and extended drought, but obviously you are once again too damn retarded to understand plain English and simple explanations, as was given in that article. Not the article, which is all pictures, in the post you just linked to because apparently you're too stupid to even quote the article you want to talk about, but this other one from a few posts ago - *CLIMATE CHANGE: Not all Himalayan glaciers are melting* - which said: "*Changes in glacier ice or snow-melt affect the glaciers storage capacity, and the flow of water downstream.*"





gslack said:


> How the hell is more meaning less? What kind of messed up twisted bleeding heart "its bad cause i said so" anti-logic is that? If the ice melts it makes more water. What is it suddenly not going to create more ice in winter?


Since anything more than 'tic-tac-toe' is beyond your capacity, slackjawed, it is not surprising that you are completely baffled by something even this simple. Let's try it again with no big word to confuse you. Mountain glaciers are hard frozen ice and only gradually and slowly lose ice as meltwater in the warmer months. They gain back some ice mass in the winter. The accumulated snowfall in the colder months freezes a bit harder when it is on top of the glacial ice than when it is on rock. The glaciers are very thick compared to the depth of ordinary snowfall. With higher average temperatures and without the glaciers being present, winter snowfall will tend to mostly or entirely melt off in the spring, creating even more severe flood risks in many places, and leaving no water in the mountains to feed the streams and rivers (and the humans and the plants and the animals) in the summer months. Result: millions of starving climate refugees, wars over resources, economic and social collapse in many parts of the world.






gslack said:


> Blunder your links continue to go down... Why in the hell do you keep posting links from third party aggregating software? Are you aware the actual use of those is to go to the site and actually link it there if you want to link to it? The reason being the long list of redirects it takes to get to it through the software makes the link generated for it unstable. In other words if you link to it through third party software like you do, it has to go through all kinds of added hyperlinks, ads, spyware, and other garbage to get there, and just one of those links times out and it fails.. Got it?
> 
> here is the way your link looks in text.
> 
> ...


You really are quite crazy. My links work fine. Anyone can go to the OP and hit 'quote' and see that you are full of shit. Anyone who is doubtful about the severity of ol' slackjawed's insanity should go and do just that. The link on the article there is very short and goes directly to the BBC site. I have no idea where you dredged up all that garbage but it must be on your computer. Are you on unfriendly drugs again tonight or is this just your normal confused insanity?


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## IanC (Oct 14, 2011)

westwall said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



hahahaha snort hahaha. rectal defilade! classic


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## gslack (Oct 14, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



Nice try liar, but the link shows the redirects only when there is a failure in one of them. I run a good bit of security on here for my work, and one of the reasons your links fail a great deal of the time with me in particular is due to those security measures i run. If there are too many redirects mine says screw that won't continue.

Why is your link a mile long when it fails? You know it now don't ya tool.. Best make sure you link to the articles properly from now on, because screwing around like you have been can piss off bandwidth-minded forum servers.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 14, 2011)

westwall said:


> I'll go with Indian sources for things happening in India over your proven lying sources any day of the week.  Remember MENSA BOY once a liar allways a liar and the IPCC has been lying through their ass!  No wonder you suck them off all the time.



Wonderful. Walleyes states that the USGS is lying. They employ real geologists for the USGS, Walleyes. You know, people that actually study rocks and glaciers.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 14, 2011)

westwall said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
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Dumb ass, you have been proven a liar repeatedly. Just one statement, "the last ten years has cooled". Yet, by everyone's record, the last decade has been the warmest one on record. It cooled, but it's the warmest one on record? You are a liar.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 14, 2011)

USGS Release: Glaciers Retreating in Asia (8/25/2010 10:33:00 AM)

Many of Asia&#8217;s glaciers are retreating as a result of climate change.

This retreat impacts water supplies to millions of people, increases the likelihood of outburst floods that threaten life and property in nearby areas, and contributes to sea-level rise.

The U.S. Geological Survey, in collaboration with 39 international scientists, published a report on the status of glaciers throughout all of Asia, including Russia, China, India, Nepal, Bhutan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Georgia, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Kazakhstan.

&#8220;Of particular interest are the Himalaya, where glacier behavior impacts the quality of life of tens of millions of people,&#8221; said USGS scientist Jane Ferrigno. &#8220;Glaciers in the Himalaya are a major source of fresh water and supply meltwater to all of the rivers in northern India.&#8221;

As glaciers become smaller, water runoff decreases, which is especially important during the dry season when other water sources are limited. Climate change also brings warmer temperatures and earlier water runoff from glaciers, and this combined with spring and summer rains can result in flood conditions. The overall glacier retreat and additional melt can increase the amount of water dammed in the vicinity of a glacier, and the added pressure enhances the likelihood of disastrous outburst flooding.

While most glaciers in Asia are in recession, some glaciers have been found to advance. Some of the advancing glaciers are surge-type glaciers, which move forward more rapidly than average in a short period of time. The reason for this is being studied by glaciologists, and is likely due to unique and local condition

Glacier studies in each area started at different times depending on accessibility of glaciers and scientific interest. For example, the earliest description of glaciers in China was in 630 A.D., while studies in the Caucasus area of Russia began in the mid 1800s and modern studies in Nepal started in the 1950s.

The time period for retreat also differs among each glacier. In Bhutan, 66 glaciers have decreased 8.1 percent over the last 30 years.  Rapid changes in the Himalaya is shown in India by the 12 percent retreat of Chhota Shigri Glacier during the last 13 years, as well as retreat of the Gangotri Glacier since 1780, with 12 percent shrinkage of the main stem in the last 16 years.

Glaciers in Russia and in the four republics once part of the Former Soviet Union have the largest area of glaciers in Asia, covering 30,478 square miles, which is about the size of South Carolina. The glaciers of China have the second largest area of glaciers in Asia, covering 22,944 square miles, which is about twice the size of Massachusetts. In Afghanistan, the more than 3,000 small mountain glaciers that occur in the Hindu Kush and Pamir mountains provide vital water resources to the region.

&#8220;This report was a collaboration between U.S. and foreign authors, the most knowledgeable glaciologists for each geographic region covered,&#8221; said USGS scientist Richard S. Williams, Jr. &#8220;The USGS published historical and modern data authored by local experts. Some analyses of past climate conditions were conducted by studying ice cores from high-mountain areas of Asia.&#8221;

This report is the 9th in the series of 11 volumes to be published as the USGS Satellite Image Atlas of Glaciers of the World. You can view other publications in this series online.

&#8220;The Glaciers of Asia&#8221; volume is available online.


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## gslack (Oct 14, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> USGS Release: Glaciers Retreating in Asia (8/25/2010 10:33:00 AM)
> 
> Many of Asias glaciers are retreating as a result of climate change.
> 
> ...



Aww you hold trolling blunders hand in the stores too?

he can't do his own research but you will do it for him.. Why don't you teach him how to be a proper greenpeace drone so you don't have to save his stupid ass anymore. Oh wait, I forgot you do the same crap he does...LOL


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## 2twsted4colorTV (Oct 14, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> 2twsted4colorTV said:
> 
> 
> > IanC said:
> ...



Milankovitch Cycles

 Astronomer Milutin Milankovitch developed the mathematical formulas upon which these orbital variations are based. He hypothesized that when some parts of the cyclic *variations are combined and occur at the same time, they are responsible for major changes to the earth's climate (even ice ages). *Milankovitch estimated climatic fluctuations over the last 450,000 years and described cold and warm periods. Though he did his work in the first half of the 20th century, Milankovich's results weren't proven until the 1970s. 

A 1976 study, published in the journal Science examined deep-sea sediment cores and found that Milankovich's theory corresponded to periods of climate change. Indeed, ice ages had occurred when the earth was going through different stages of orbital variation. 

http://geography.about.com/od/learnabouttheearth/a/milankovitch.htm


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## RollingThunder (Oct 14, 2011)

2twsted4colorTV said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > 2twsted4colorTV said:
> ...



So, somebody told you about Milankovich cycles but you have no real idea what it means. The Milankovich cycle would ordinarily have the Earth naturally and very, very slowly cooling now. Instead we're experiencing an unusually abrupt warming trend. 

You're clueless, confused and thoroughly bamboozled.

*Global warming is part of a natural cycleThis idea is one short step above appealing to magic*


***


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## 2twsted4colorTV (Oct 14, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> 2twsted4colorTV said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



Whatever you say.  However, the Pacific Northwest evidently doesn't KNOW we are warming, because once again La Nina is going to keep us cold.  

Go to hell, asshole!


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## RollingThunder (Oct 14, 2011)

2twsted4colorTV said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > 2twsted4colorTV said:
> ...


So what? It's called *global warming*, not '_your backyard is warming_'.

However, have you already forgotten the snow free Vancouver Winter Olympics just a couple of years ago?

*No Snow for the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver*
ABC News
Feb. 6, 2009
(excerpts)
*You don't have to be a weather expert to understand the problem. Going into this weekend, temperatures hovered around a balmy 50 degrees Fahrenheit in Vancouver. And the mountain that has become a central part of the problem, Cypress Mountain, is on the city's outskirts. The snow is so sparse on Cypress Mountain, brown patches are visible.* 


*Global Warming Debate Heats Up in the Pacific Northwest as Air and Water Temperatures Rise Faster Than World Average*

*Pacific Northwest and Global Warming*






2twsted4colorTV said:


> Go to hell, asshole!


Oh wow, what a witty, intelligent comeback.....LOLOLOLOL.....too bad that's all ya got, you poor deluded dupe.


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## k2skier (Oct 14, 2011)

2twsted4colorTV said:


> IanC said:
> 
> 
> > as always, the problem is attribution. the global temp has gone up less than 1K in the last 100+ years, much of that before significant manmade CO2 rise. glaciers and ice packs have shrunk and grown many times in the past according to their own schedule. warmers try to lay all the blame at the feet of mankind for burning fossil fuels but they are far from proving even the CO2 contribution with any certainty, and are even less certain of the other factors both known and unknown. I am all for continued study but I am against crippling our economy and cutting the quality of life in the hope that CO2 is the ultimate climate control knob, and more importantly, that we can control it in any meaningful way.
> ...



WRONG!
Glacier Change Timeline

In 1994 Mount Rainier's glaciers had a combined area of 90 square kilometers ( 35 square miles), and an estimated total volume of 4.2 cubic kilometers ( 1.0 cubic miles). Between 1913 and 1994, the combined area dropped by 21% and total volume by 25%. In general, glaciers on the south side of the mountain shrank more than glaciers on the north side (total area losses of 27% and 17% respectively). The changing position of glacier termini indicate that all of the mountain's major glaciers retreated between 1913 and the late 1950's, then advanced until the early 1980's, and then retreated significantly during the 1990's 


Try doing a little research before you make a completely false claim...idiot.

This years La Nina is weaker than last years nina, and the PNW got next to no snow in 5.5 weeks from the end of Dec thru early Jan and except for 2.5 months last winter all average temps were above normal.


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## westwall (Oct 14, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> 2twsted4colorTV said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...







Sure we are


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## westwall (Oct 14, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> 2twsted4colorTV said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...








  Typical brainwashed doofus TB.  I find it amusing that a snowless winter is all important and yet a summer with snow in it is somehow not interesting.   

Typical brain dead drone.


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## gslack (Oct 14, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> 2twsted4colorTV said:
> 
> 
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Hey troll, whats API Vigilink? Its the first thing we get sent to when we click on your links.... Oh don't play coy with me tool, I already know... Its a pay per click service isn't it...Sure it is, here's their FAQ page..

VigLink - FAQ



> Frequently Asked Questions
> General
> 
> What is VigLink?
> ...



WOW so you're a real troll then not just an idiot with multiple personality disorder... Far out man! I heard stories of you types but I always thought it was BS. yet here you are in the flesh so to speak, or the text... 

SO you get paid by them for everyone who clicks through the links you supply us with here. Why that seems dishonest to me, especially after you sat there denying anything being wrong with your links in front of all of us... They have something that says you can't do this.. Whats it called? Oh yeah, a Terms Of Service Agreement.. Pretty sure its a TOS violation troll, and if its not should be. its dishonest, its using people, and its just plain wrong.

Want to explain yourself now troll? I think you will have to with somebody here very soon, if not me or us posters someone... 

Want to know what the risks are with clicking affiliate links in a web forum? me too... Want to explain to others whats wrong with it?

Game, set, match... I warned ya I was gonna look into it..


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## wirebender (Oct 14, 2011)

gslack said:


> Want to explain yourself now troll? I think you will have to with somebody here very soon, if not me or us posters someone...
> 
> Want to know what the risks are with clicking affiliate links in a web forum? me too... Want to explain to others whats wrong with it?
> 
> Game, set, match... I warned ya I was gonna look into it..



So he gets paid every time someone clicks on one of his idiot links?


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## RollingThunder (Oct 14, 2011)

gslack said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > 2twsted4colorTV said:
> ...



Here's my links in this post, visible to anyone who hits 'quote'. Or right-click on the link and hit 'properties' if you have that function or hit 'copy link location' and paste it somewhere and look at it.

"http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Weekend/snow-2010-winter-olympics-vancouver-british-columbia/story?id=9762897"]No Snow for the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver[/URL]

"http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Weekend/snow-2010-winter-olympics-vancouver-british-columbia/story?id=9762897"]No Snow for the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver[/URL]

"http://environment.about.com/b/2005/11/08/global-warming-debate-heats-up-in-the-pacific-northwest-as-air-and-water-temperatures-rise-faster-than-world-average.htm"]Global Warming Debate Heats Up in the Pacific Northwest as Air and Water Temperatures Rise Faster Than World Average[/URL]

"http://www.nwf.org/Global-Warming/Effects-on-Wildlife-and-Habitat/Estuaries-and-Coastal-Wetlands/Pacific-Northwest.aspx"]Pacific Northwest and Global Warming[/URL]

You really are quite insane, slackjawedidiot. There is no 'hidden' code in there and no redirects. Anyone can look for themselves so why are you so eager to make a fool out of yourself again (for about the millionth time). 

And of course, your whole trip here is just a stupid off-topic distraction because you can't refute any of the science or the photos of the vanishing glaciers.

You *really* are quite insane.


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## gslack (Oct 14, 2011)

yep, pretty lame to pull shit like that here. I am pretty sure it violates our TOS AND the company vigilinks as well.


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## RollingThunder (Oct 14, 2011)

gslack said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > 2twsted4colorTV said:
> ...



Here's my links in this post, visible to anyone who hits 'quote'. Or right-click on the link and hit 'properties' if you have that function or hit 'copy link location' and paste it somewhere and look at it.

"http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Weekend/snow-2010-winter-olympics-vancouver-british-columbia/story?id=9762897"]No Snow for the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver[/URL]

"http://environment.about.com/b/2005/11/08/global-warming-debate-heats-up-in-the-pacific-northwest-as-air-and-water-temperatures-rise-faster-than-world-average.htm"]Global Warming Debate Heats Up in the Pacific Northwest as Air and Water Temperatures Rise Faster Than World Average[/URL]

"http://www.nwf.org/Global-Warming/Effects-on-Wildlife-and-Habitat/Estuaries-and-Coastal-Wetlands/Pacific-Northwest.aspx"]Pacific Northwest and Global Warming[/URL]

You really are quite insane, slackjawedidiot. There is no 'hidden' code in there and no redirects. Anyone can look for themselves so why are you so eager to make a fool out of yourself again (for about the millionth time). 

And of course, your whole trip here is just a stupid off-topic distraction because you can't refute any of the science or the photos of the vanishing glaciers.

You *really* are quite insane.


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## gslack (Oct 14, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



You are busted pal, you can edit within a set time frame like you just did, but your previous links you can't... The one from gristmill for instance..

You are done there it is for all to see, right click on it and select open in new tab and you can see the API vigilink redirect right there. Again that is why when it failed the link was so long. Its so long because its piped around the net to generate revenue for you fake.

EDIT: post #52 your link, in that one was the last one you did it with. The reason is either because i knew you were doing something shady and called you on it, or you went back and edited after the fact. Either way you couldn't edit the older posts. The link you supply in that post redirects through your affiliate network fraud. you can see api:vigilink in the url if you load it in another tab and watch it carefully. matter of fact put your cursor over it and watch the info on it change in the bottom of your browser. There is a reason it changes, it takes a few for the redirect to kick in. the link read as the following.

&#8216;Global warming is part of a natural cycle&#8217;&#8212;This idea is one short step above appealing to magic'

You sir are most likely in violation of at least one TOS..


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## gslack (Oct 14, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> 2twsted4colorTV said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



That link in that post is a redirected affiliate link deny it all you can troll but there it is plain as day.


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## RollingThunder (Oct 14, 2011)

gslack said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > 2twsted4colorTV said:
> ...



Anyone can hit 'quote' and see the code in my link, you insane fruitcake. Here's the code for the link in "_that post_" - *"http://www.grist.org/article/current-global-warming-is-just-part-of-a-natural-cycle"]&#8216;Global warming is part of a natural cycle&#8217;&#8212;This idea is one short step above appealing to magic[/URL]
*

Is it somehow only "_plain as day_" to insane retards like you? Because nobody else can see it, you moronic loon.


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## gslack (Oct 14, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



Why keep telling us to hit quote and look at it? We don't have to do that troll. Right click the link and open in new tab and watch the address bar closely. you will see api:vigilink et al. for a second or so just long enough to deposit a tracking cookie or something else we didn't ask for.

You keep showing the same links quoted why not the one I pointed to and why does it have to be quoted? plain text quoting does not show meta tags. I knew there was something odd about all those huge bolded links that seemed familiar and scripted. And with the way they suddenly stop and then start working again and showing a mile long link when the test for it in the post is an average looking link.

Either you do it deliberately to generate income off of us or you do it by being lazy and irresponsible and hot-linking through another service. Im pretty sure both are against the TOS. So take your pick are you lazy or a weasel?

EDIT: right click on his link and press "copy link". then paste it into notepad or a simple plain text editor and look at the link.. it looks like this...

"http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=773&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmessageboard.com%2Fenvironment%2F189019-vanishing-glaciers-of-the-greater-himalaya-photographic-evidence-5.html%23post4272122&v=1&libid=1318643814562&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.grist.org%2Farticle%2Fcurrent-global-warming-is-just-part-of-a-natural-cycle&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmessageboard.com%2Fusercp.php&title=Vanishing%20Glaciers%20Of%20The%20Greater%20Himalaya%20-%20Photographic%20evidence%20-%20Page%205%20-%20US%20Message%20Board%20-%20Political%20Discussion%20Forum&txt=%E2%80%98Global%20warming%20is%20part%20of%20a%20natural%20cycle%E2%80%99%E2%80%94This%20idea%20is%20one%20short%20step%20above%20appealing%20to%20magic&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13186438400011"


See all of that? not the same as what he claimed is it... yeah a few other things go on in there than that..


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## gslack (Oct 14, 2011)

I just spent a few minutes going over the code for that post of his. there are several scripts linked to it. All of them save for one is for this webforums use.. The ONLY one that isn't is a vigilink javascript. the id tag on that script states.

"Sizzle CSS Selector Engine
 Copyright 2011, The Dojo Foundation
 Released under the MIT, BSD, and GPL Licenses.
 More information: Sizzle JavaScript Selector Library
 VigLink JavaScript Library -- Affiliate Every Link on the Web with VigLink

 Permission is hereby granted to create derivative works, but only for use
 with the VigLink web service.

 Copyright (c) 2011 VigLink. Rights reserved and patent(s) pending."

If you want me to I can post the entire script here.


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## RollingThunder (Oct 14, 2011)

gslack said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > gslack said:
> ...



Again, you're an insane troll.

I really urge everyone to right click on that link and hit 'copy link location' and then paste it somewhere and look at it. This is what you get:

//www.grist.org/article/current-global-warming-is-just-part-of-a-natural-cycle

The slackjawedidiot is so stupid he probably has a bunch of malware on his computer that is inserting all that code into any links he copies. That junk is certainly not in the links I'm posting.


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## gslack (Oct 14, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



Dance boy dance... I even told you I right clicked the link and chose "copy link address" and pasted it in a plain text editor (notepad, gedit, et al) and got that link exactly word for word character for character as I posted it.

BTW, I am running linux kernel 3.0 with gnome-shell desktop. I have no virus or malware in my system. those are written for windows due to the mass effect with so many users. they don't write them for linux because

1. its free and open source and not very much fun writing a bit of malware for the OS most hackers would use for their own security.

2. Its again free and open source maintained by a community of programmers on their own time. kind of hard to play robin hood when you rob the poor.

3. its designed and developed from the start to be internet secure. Dude I have a password to put in for every single file change and thats been the standard since I can remember. Windows 7 just now started their version of it, which is barely secure at best.

4. Windows is teaming with bugs and holes. its so bloated and developed by so many paid programmers with so many often conflicting agendas or ideas, it ends up with overlapping apps or programs or gaps in their connections or services. Ever notice the sheer volume of updates for windows in a single year? For the record I had 3 updates in the last year. and 2 of those was because I upgraded to a new version voluntarily.

So sorry troll, but no malware here...


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## RollingThunder (Oct 14, 2011)

gslack said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > gslack said:
> ...



Maybe the malware is in your brain, slackjawedidiot, 'cause you sure are totally insane.

I again urge anyone who wants to see ol' slackjawed's insanity first hand to just do as he says and right click on the link and paste it somewhere. Ii is a simple direct link to grist.com and that's it. The rest of that crap slackjawed is posting must be in his own system, which he's probably too retarded to operate properly.


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## gslack (Oct 14, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



I urge everyone to do the same... And make sure you select "copy link address" and then paste it in a plain text editor like notepad or gedit. That way it is exactly as written in the actual link. If you do you will see the following in about half of his links before I outed him for it.

"http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=773&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmessageboard.com%2Fenvironment%2F189019-vanishing-glaciers-of-the-greater-himalaya-photographic-evidence-5.html%23post4272439&v=1&libid=1318648902664&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.grist.org%2Farticle%2Fcurrent-global-warming-is-just-part-of-a-natural-cycle&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmessageboard.com%2Fusercp.php&title=Vanishing%20Glaciers%20Of%20The%20Greater%20Himalaya%20-%20Photographic%20evidence%20-%20Page%205%20-%20US%20Message%20Board%20-%20Political%20Discussion%20Forum&txt=%E2%80%98Global%20warming%20is%20part%20of%20a%20natural%20cycle%E2%80%99%E2%80%94This%20idea%20is%20one%20short%20step%20above%20appealing%20to%20magic&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13186489486111"

thats what it looks like as is written.. that first part "api:vigilink" is a callout to a javascript that is made by Vigilink corp. they are an affiliate link company which pays the link poster per unique click through the redirect the javascript sends the browser to, and they make money most likely by the destination paying them for information on your browsing habits, or interested parties wanting to know general browsing habits for research or PR work. it looks to me like the javascript basically places a tracking cookie in your browser cache during the redirect, hence it only taking a second or two and not loading an actual page before the destination.

here is the link to vigilink corp. Affiliate Every Link on the Web with VigLink

and their about us VigLink - About

and their FAQ's page VigLink - FAQ

i saw this on their FAQ's page....

_"Will my users notice? Should I disclose it?
*The US Federal Trade Commission requires that you disclose use of affiliate links.* More information and tools are available.

*VigLink works in your existing content; all links that are inserted look as if you inserted them yourself and mousing over a link will always reveal the destination.* There are no intrusive pop-ups, ads or double underlines. So, most users do not notice on their own, but we highly recommend you disclose it.

*Even if you are not subject to FTC jurisdiction, we strongly recommend you disclose. Our customers have found that readers are completely understanding if they are informed and can be upset if they are surprised. *Informing your users will give those who desire it the opportunity to permanently opt-out. Although VigLink is not intrusive, it is easily detectable by savvy users."_

I bolded the parts you should pay close attention to troll.... You do realize not disclosing the use of this is illegal? I wasn't aware of that... that being the case, you really, really need to stop what you are doing with this right away. All forum BS aside, this is a violation of the US Federal Trade Commission laws. They do not fool around and it will not matter if its just a few links a day for a few pennies. It will be the principle and the message they want to send you and your reasons or excuses will not matter.

Above they said "..it is easily detectable by savvy users." Well I'm about as savvy a user as you have ever met. And this savvy user is telling you flat out to knock this shit off right away....


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## RollingThunder (Oct 14, 2011)

gslack said:


> rollingthunder said:
> 
> 
> > gslack said:
> ...



*******troll attack!!!!****troll attack!!!!*******


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## gslack (Oct 14, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > rollingthunder said:
> ...





Keep going and get the attention you aren't looking for. It will come eventually...


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## gslack (Oct 14, 2011)

Just in case anyone thinks I am making this up. Here is a another forum about corvettes where a poster is asking about this very same thing.

What's up with the vigilink.com link hijacks? - Corvette Forum

Seems its not just me is it... Trolling blunder you have to disclose using that affiliate linking service to people its against FTC codes.


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## westwall (Oct 15, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...







Wow tb, we knew you were a troll but now we see the scumbag you truly are.  What a sad POS you are.


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## westwall (Oct 15, 2011)

gslack said:


> Just in case anyone thinks I am making this up. Here is a another forum about corvettes where a poster is asking about this very same thing.
> 
> What's up with the vigilink.com link hijacks? - Corvette Forum
> 
> Seems its not just me is it... Trolling blunder you have to disclose using that affiliate linking service to people its against FTC codes.







Great catch gslack!  We knew he was a troll, now we know he's a scumbag troll to boot!


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## Old Rocks (Oct 15, 2011)

OK. So you think that you have one on Thunder. But I see he is still on here. So it looks like this is just more of your bullshit.


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## westwall (Oct 15, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> OK. So you think that you have one on Thunder. But I see he is still on here. So it looks like this is just more of your bullshit.








Have one on him?  No, gslack just figured out he's a scumbag troll.  That doesn't get him off here, only the mods can do that.  He's just a human (sort of) example of whack-a-mole,
you smack him down in one place and he pops up in another, kind of like the clap!


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## RollingThunder (Oct 15, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> OK. So you think that you have one on Thunder. But I see he is still on here. So it looks like this is just more of your bullshit.



Since anyone can look at the links for themselves and see that there is no hidden code, this comes down to just more off-topic distraction and misdirection. It is a common tactic of the denier cultists when they have no real response to the science and the facts. The slackjawedidiot is known for idiotic obsessions like this, usually involving his fantasy 'sock-puppets'.


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## RollingThunder (Oct 15, 2011)

Here's some info on some studies done a few years ago that highlight the drastic changes occurring with glaciers in the high mountainous regions of the world.

*Himalaya glaciers melting much faster
Warming appears to be having bigger impact on ice at higher elevations* 

By Michael Reilly
MSNBC.com
11/24/2008
(excerpts) 

*Glaciers high in the Himalayas are dwindling faster than anyone thought, putting nearly a billion people living in South Asia in peril of losing their water supply. Throughout India, China, and Nepal, some 15,000 glaciers speckle the Tibetan Plateau, some of the highest land in the world. There, perched in thin, frigid air up to 7,200 meters (23,622 feet) above sea level, the ice might seem secluded from the effects of global warming. But just the opposite is proving true, according to new research published last week in the journal Geophysical Research Letters.

Lonnie Thompson of Ohio State University and a team of researchers traveled to central Himalayas in 2006 to study the Naimona'nyi glacier, expecting to find some melting. Mountain glaciers have been receding all over the world since the 1990s and there was no reason this one, which provides water to the mighty Ganges, Indus, and Brahmaputra Rivers, should be any different. But when the team analyzed samples of glacier, what they found stunned them. Glaciers around the planet are usually dated by looking for two pulses of radioactivity buried in the ice. These are the leftovers from American and Russian atomic bomb testing in the 1950's and 1960's. In the Naimona'nyi samples, there was no sign of the tests. In fact, the glacier had melted so much that the exposed surface of the glacier dated to 1944.

He suspects the reason for this is that high-altitude glaciers, despite residing in colder temperatures, are more sensitive to climate change. As more heat is trapped in the atmosphere, he said, it holds more water vapor. And when the water vapor rises to high altitudes it condenses, releasing the heat into the upper atmosphere, where high mountain landscapes feel the brunt of warming. "At the highest elevations, we're seeing something like an average of 0.3 degrees Centigrade warming per decade," Thompson said. "The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) projects 3 degrees of warming by 2100. But that's at the surface; up at the elevations where these glaciers are there could be almost twice as much, almost 6 degrees."

The finding has ominous implications for the hundreds of millions of people who depend on the waters of the Naimona'nyi and other glaciers for their livelihoods. Across the region, no one know just how much water the Himalayas have left, but Thompson said it's dwindling fast. "You can think of glaciers kind of like water towers, " he said. "They collect water from the monsoon in the wet season, and release it in the dry season. But how effective they are depends on how much water is in the towers."*

© 2011 Discovery Channel

_(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)
_


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 15, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > OK. So you think that you have one on Thunder. But I see he is still on here. So it looks like this is just more of your bullshit.
> ...



*Since anyone can look at the links for themselves and see that there is no hidden code,*

I believe you. Except for the hidden code in your links.

When I view the source in post #1, I see this.

//api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=773&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmessageboard.com%2Fenvironment%2F189019-vanishing-glaciers-of-the-greater-himalaya-photographic-evidence.html&v=1&libid=1318702937206&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworld-south-asia-15216875&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmessageboard.com%2Fenvironment%2F189019-vanishing-glaciers-of-the-greater-himalaya-photographic-evidence-6.html&title=Vanishing%20Glaciers%20Of%20The%20Greater%20Himalaya%20-%20Photographic%20evidence%20-%20US%20Message%20Board%20-%20Political%20Discussion%20Forum&txt=Rivers%20of%20ice%3A%20Vanishing%20glaciers&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13187030530291

I guess it got there on accident?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 15, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Here's some info on some studies done a few years ago that highlight the drastic changes occurring with glaciers in the high mountainous regions of the world.
> 
> *Himalaya glaciers melting much faster
> Warming appears to be having bigger impact on ice at higher elevations*
> ...



//api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=773&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmessageboard.com%2Fenvironment%2F189019-vanishing-glaciers-of-the-greater-himalaya-photographic-evidence-6.html%23post4274254&v=1&libid=1318703137169&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.msnbc.msn.com%2Fid%2F27894721%2Fns%2Fus_news-environment%2Ft%2Fhimalaya-glaciers-melting-much-faster%2F%23.Tph31V2D2uI&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmessageboard.com%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dpostreply%26t%3D189019&title=Vanishing%20Glaciers%20Of%20The%20Greater%20Himalaya%20-%20Photographic%20evidence%20-%20Page%206%20-%20US%20Message%20Board%20-%20Political%20Discussion%20Forum&txt=Himalaya%20glaciers%20melting%20much%20faster&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13187031384201

Nice!


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## RollingThunder (Oct 15, 2011)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > Here's some info on some studies done a few years ago that highlight the drastic changes occurring with glaciers in the high mountainous regions of the world.
> ...



Perhaps you could explain how you got that crap? When I right click on the link and hit 'copy link location', I get this: h ttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27894721/ns/us_news-environment/t/himalaya-glaciers-melting-much-faster/#.Tph31V2D2uI

Just how are you supposedly "_viewing the source_" as you claim?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 15, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



Right click then click "Properties"


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## westwall (Oct 15, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...







I don't know troll, you posted the link.  I guess you're like every other little child and aren't responsible for your actions.  What are you 5?


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## RollingThunder (Oct 15, 2011)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Yeah, right, you lying troll, I did just that and this is what anyone can see if they do that:
*h ttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27894721/ns/us_news-environment/t/himalaya-glaciers-melting-much-faster/#.Tph31V2D2uI*

You deluded retards are pathetic.


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## skookerasbil (Oct 15, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Here's some info on some studies done a few years ago that highlight the drastic changes occurring with glaciers in the high mountainous regions of the world.
> 
> *Himalaya glaciers melting much faster
> Warming appears to be having bigger impact on ice at higher elevations*
> ...


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## westwall (Oct 15, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...







Yes, yes we are, but what does that make you, who's losing your ass everytime you post here????  Oh yeah, that's right...an EVEN DUMBER 'TARD!


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 15, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



*Yet, by everyone's record, the last decade has been the warmest one on record.*

Everyone's record? Using real data? Or using the data faked by the warmists?

What did they mean by "hide the decline"?


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## RollingThunder (Oct 15, 2011)

westwall said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


That's probably the most honest thing you've ever posted, walleyed. Congratulations.







westwall said:


> but what does that make you, who's losing your ass everytime you post here????  Oh yeah, that's right...an EVEN DUMBER 'TARD!



Well of course you imagine you're winning but that is only because you're too retarded to know what the hell is going on. In reality, your nonsense and misinformation gets debunked every time but again, you don't have the brains to realize how much you're outclassed and wup-assed.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 15, 2011)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



Well boy, post a link that proves the data is 'faked'. Or post a link to an accredited institution that states that the last decade was not the warmest on record. 

'Hide the decline' has been explained many times. And all concerned were exonerated by the scientific community.

But go on blindly quoting 'talking points' and continue to demonstrate that you are an ignoramous.

Past Decade Warmest on Record, NASA Data Shows - NYTimes.com

NOAA - National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration - NOAA: Past Decade Warmest on Record According to Scientists in 48 Countries

NASA - NASA Research Finds Last Decade was Warmest on Record, 2009 One of Warmest Years


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## westwall (Oct 15, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...







No, I'm pretty sure the sceptics are kicking your asses all over the place.  Everywhere except Australia (where the politicians who voted it in are heavily invested in the green enrgy to replace the evil fossil fuel industry) carbon taxes are dead.  Everywhere, the sceptical argument is winning over converts...EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY DAY.

It's only brain dead cultists like you who don't see the writing on the wall.  Mr. Piltdown Man.





Climate of green fear awaits us | Herald Sun


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 15, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



The data wasn't faked? Massaged? Why all the excitement over the leaked e-mails?

Yeah, hide the decline was explained. LOL!

You had to hide the decline, to make it seem warmer now. 

Great explanation.


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## Sunshine (Oct 15, 2011)

The earth has been changing since it came into being.  Continents have shifted.  Ice ages have come and gone.  We should be learning to adapt rather than trying to figure out how to stop the changes.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 15, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAlMomLvu_4]Censoring The Decrease in Global Temperatures - YouTube[/ame]


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## Old Rocks (Oct 15, 2011)

OK, Toddster, so you think a Youtube is equal to NASA and NOAA scientists. Oh well, what was one to expect.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 15, 2011)

Sunshine said:


> The earth has been changing since it came into being.  Continents have shifted.  Ice ages have come and gone.  We should be learning to adapt rather than trying to figure out how to stop the changes.



Well, when we are causing the changes, perhaps it would be wise to cease and desist from those actions that are causing the changes.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 15, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> OK, Toddster, so you think a Youtube is equal to NASA and NOAA scientists. Oh well, what was one to expect.



I haven't seen the YouTube guys committing fraud yet.

Like the Hockey Stick. Hide the Decline.

All the fraud shown by Climategate.

Quick, let's spend trillions and cripple our economy, based on fraud.

Great idea. 

What was the "Nature Trick"?


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## Sunshine (Oct 15, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> > The earth has been changing since it came into being.  Continents have shifted.  Ice ages have come and gone.  We should be learning to adapt rather than trying to figure out how to stop the changes.
> ...



We, as in the US?  Have you been to China. I have.  I've been and I've seen.  The Chinese pollute about as badly as the US.  And you are powerless to stop it.  You will not stop the Chinese from using their vast coal resources. They aren't going to be cold in the winter and shut down their factories so that your sensibilities will not be offended.  The earth is changing.  We cannot stop it.  We need to learn how to adapt.


http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 15, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> > The earth has been changing since it came into being.  Continents have shifted.  Ice ages have come and gone.  We should be learning to adapt rather than trying to figure out how to stop the changes.
> ...



Let's do a cost-benefit analysis first.


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## Sunshine (Oct 15, 2011)

My personal belief about the changes occurring is that the earth is in the process of reclaiming herself.  Mankind need only sit back and watch.   Mother nature will NOT be defeated!


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## Sunshine (Oct 15, 2011)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Sunshine said:
> ...



From the Chinese perspective or the American perspective?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 15, 2011)

Sunshine said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



From the perspective of whomever numnutz wants to "cease and desist".


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## Sunshine (Oct 15, 2011)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



It won't be the Chinese.


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## gslack (Oct 15, 2011)

TRolling Blunder I really cannot fathom why you are trying to pretend the link does not have viglink script on it... I just did some research on viglink and it seems they work with google, wordpress, and many many other legit companies. The difference is that in the TOS of say wordpress which you have to agree to use their services is they tell you they use ads and affiliate links and or services and companies like viglink. And Google doesn't necessarily use it directly but they allow links and ads gotten from or through them. Which makes it their bandwidth, their servers, and their business.

Hower what you are doing is NOT the same thing. You have not disclosed to us its use, and in fact even deny using it despite it being right there for all to see. I even told you and showed you viglinks own words stating not disclosing its use to us is against Federal Trade Commission laws. You are most likely bound by the FTC laws and are trying to cover your ass i suppose but the only way to do that now is to stop using viglink here.

Now if you continue this lying and posturing i will continue in this. What you are doing is illegal, and dishonest. But lying about it and claiming I am lying about it, well I won't have the likes of you call me a liar troll...


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## RollingThunder (Oct 15, 2011)

gslack said:


> TRolling Blunder I really cannot fathom why you are trying to pretend the link does not have viglink script on it... I just did some research on viglink and it seems they work with google, wordpress, and many many other legit companies. The difference is that in the TOS of say wordpress which you have to agree to use their services is they tell you they use ads and affiliate links and or services and companies like viglink. And Google doesn't necessarily use it directly but they allow links and ads gotten from or through them. Which makes it their bandwidth, their servers, and their business.
> 
> Hower what you are doing is NOT the same thing. You have not disclosed to us its use, and in fact even deny using it despite it being right there for all to see. I even told you and showed you viglinks own words stating not disclosing its use to us is against Federal Trade Commission laws. You are most likely bound by the FTC laws and are trying to cover your ass i suppose but the only way to do that now is to stop using viglink here.
> 
> Now if you continue this lying and posturing i will continue in this. What you are doing is illegal, and dishonest. But lying about it and claiming I am lying about it, well I won't have the likes of you call me a liar troll...



You are not only a liar, slackjawed, you are a really retarded liar. I don't have to "_pretend the link does not have viglink script on it_" because anyone can look at the code in my links and see that there is none of your BS there as you claim. I don't know how you went off the rails on the crazy train this time (and I really don't care either) but your nonsensical obsession is just making you look even more retarded than usual.


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## gslack (Oct 16, 2011)

People if you have issue with trolling blunders using hidden and deceptive scripts to get paid for each click on his links dishonestly and by using you without your consent to line his pockets, you can opt out of viglink scripts on their site. Only do this if you do not want ANY viglink scripts to run in links you click. This option stops all viglink scripts on your pc through a cookie or something like it. Or you can run an optional script blocking client or app in your browser. Firefox and chrome have good ones. These allow you to select what you will allow to run and where or when.

Please help to stop people like trolling blunder who abuse a system that was designed for honest people to use the right way. Its people like that asshole that ruin useful things for everyone.

VigLink - Opt-Out


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## RollingThunder (Oct 16, 2011)

gslack said:


> People if you have issue with trolling blunders using hidden and deceptive scripts to get paid for each click on his links dishonestly and by using you without your consent to line his pockets, you can opt out of viglink scripts on their site. Only do this if you do not want ANY viglink scripts to run in links you click. This option stops all viglink scripts on your pc through a cookie or something like it. Or you can run an optional script blocking client or app in your browser. Firefox and chrome have good ones. These allow you to select what you will allow to run and where or when.
> 
> Please help to stop people like trolling blunder who abuse a system that was designed for honest people to use the right way. Its people like that asshole that ruin useful things for everyone.
> 
> VigLink - Opt-Out




Too bad (for you) that people can see for themselves that there are no viglink redirects in my links. You're just making making it even more obvious what a moronic idiot and liar you are, slackjawed. If you're not consciously lying and you're really seeing that stuff then I suggest you clear the malware off of your computer so it stops inserting that junk every time you copy a link. It is certainly not in the links as they are posted here, as anyone can see if they look. You poor confused dillwad.


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## gslack (Oct 16, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > People if you have issue with trolling blunders using hidden and deceptive scripts to get paid for each click on his links dishonestly and by using you without your consent to line his pockets, you can opt out of viglink scripts on their site. Only do this if you do not want ANY viglink scripts to run in links you click. This option stops all viglink scripts on your pc through a cookie or something like it. Or you can run an optional script blocking client or app in your browser. Firefox and chrome have good ones. These allow you to select what you will allow to run and where or when.
> ...



Nice try weasel I already explained I run Linux and that has no malware. Fact is I am currently talking to viglink support on this matter.. I am pretty sure you are abusing their service. And quite sure they frown on that sort of thing, bad for their business and all that.. Either way you will no longer make a penny off me. I strongly suggest everyone opt out of viglink and will continue to do so as long as you abuse it this way. We shall see what their support has to say on the matter.

Tool if ya had any brains you would know when to shut up..


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## RollingThunder (Oct 16, 2011)

gslack said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > gslack said:
> ...



LOLOLOLOL....still trying to beat a dead horse, eh slackjawedidiot. Too bad for you that this is something that anyone can check and see for themselves how insane you are.

You have no brains and you never shut up and that's why you're so hilarious.


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## skookerasbil (Oct 16, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...




The slackjawedidiots are stilll waiting for you to post up those links s0n!!!


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## RollingThunder (Oct 16, 2011)

skookerasbil said:


> The slackjawedidiots are stilll waiting for you to post up those links



What links would those be, Mr. Shit4brains?

BTW, the intelligent people are still waiting for you to say anything that isn't utter drivel and braindead nonsense. Still waiting!!!


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## westwall (Oct 16, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> skookerasbil said:
> 
> 
> > The slackjawedidiots are stilll waiting for you to post up those links
> ...






If you are ever able to come up with something intelligent I am sure he will do likewise.  Till then you get what you sow.  You plant nothing of value.


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## skookerasbil (Oct 16, 2011)

westwall said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > skookerasbil said:
> ...




Heres the thing West...........in the end, anybody following these threads and who ISNT a true believer can draw their own conclusions. They see this meathead post up the same 4 alarmist links 4 or 5 times in every and nothing else. Its all good..........


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## gslack (Oct 16, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



LOL, well viglink will be contacting me again very soon...


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## RollingThunder (Oct 17, 2011)

gslack said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > gslack said:
> ...



Is that what you're calling the voices in your head these days? LOLOLOL....ask the nice nurse for more meds, dude, you've gone 'round the bend.


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## gslack (Oct 17, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



Yeah, like the ones you hear when you throw your tantrums?

Keep lying troll, someones gonna take notice.. Really..


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## RollingThunder (Oct 17, 2011)

gslack said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > gslack said:
> ...



"_Really_"???  Please hold your breath until then.  LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.....you are such a hopeless imbecile, slackjawed.


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## gslack (Oct 17, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



Don't worry dude, viglink is aware of your actions now.. Won't be long....


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## RollingThunder (Oct 17, 2011)

gslack said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > gslack said:
> ...



Are you still holding your breath waiting? LOLOLOLOLOL. I sure hope you are, you clueless retard.


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## gslack (Oct 17, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



Why so worried? If you aren't misusing their software you are fine, if you are just hot-linking from a service or software and their links happen to be there, then that just makes you lazy and lame as well as irresponsible. ya know I find it completely telling in the way you reacted to this. Crying and screaming across multiple threads and your continued use of word play to hide your links code. Even when another poster saw the same thing you called him a liar as well and continued your rant...

Whether they do anything or not, is up to them now. But I wouldn't be surprised if they do not start to monitor the use of their software or service a bit more closely now, because this isn't a single instance of this, I found many forums with people asking the same questions, just from one simple google search. This kind of thing is going to be a problem and people like you who either use  the service illegally to cheat the system, or ignorantly hot-link to their affiliated links are going to make it harder for legit users to make a buck.

Personally I think you are an idiot living with mom who thinks he is going make money for doing nothing or at least using the work of others while he does online role-playing in web forums. I think you run through a proxy or several, and most likely maintain multiple ID's on as many web forums as you can, and try to use any means you can to eek out some pennies to buy your bandwidth and cheetohs.

Fee advice: get out of the house! or rather get out of moms house and take care of your own lazy ass for once. this isn't real life, this is a web forum, nothing more. And whatever role you play on here isn't real its data across a network and will be gone and forgotten as soon as its deleted by any admin or mod. Life, people, friends and family is real. Objects, trinkets, computers, all of it is just stuff. Stuff that you can use from time to time, in the end its reality that lasts.

Now go on and play your little game until you are busted or mom kicks your ass out...


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## RollingThunder (Oct 17, 2011)

gslack said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > gslack said:
> ...



Did you turn blue yet? Still holding your breath waiting for "_vigilink to get back_" to you? "_*Won't be long*_"......keep holding your breath waiting...pretty please.....LOLOLOLOLOLOL


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## gslack (Oct 17, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



Not holding my breath but you obviously are... LOL

Btw, I have a ticket in their service and support system. Seems its been bumped up to management already. not even been 24 hours yet and you are already crying... LOL this is great fun no matter they do, watching your reaction is priceless..


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## RollingThunder (Oct 17, 2011)

gslack said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > gslack said:
> ...



You mean, watching me laugh at you and your retarded insanity and lies? OK, if it gets you off, here you go.....*LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.....:......ROTFLMAO*......you poor stupid busted liar...

Or do you mean me pointing out your lies and fraudulent claims that are now so very obvious for all to see? Like *here*     and *here*. 

Have fun, fruitcake. Rave on....

And please keep on holding your breath waiting for your fantasies to somehow manifest in the real world. LOLOLOLOL


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## gslack (Oct 17, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



Cry pretty now... Go smiley crazy throw a hissy fit...


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## gslack (Oct 18, 2011)

I got this in my email inbox a bit ago.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To review the status of the request and add additional comments, follow the link below:
VigLink - Log In

You can also add a comment by replying to this email.

hannah, Oct-17 02:54 pm (PDT):

Hi ...,

Thanks for letting us know about this issue. Could you let me know what site and post you're talking about so we can look into this further?

Thanks!

Best,

Hannah

Hannah Gilula
 | support@viglink .com
Affiliate Every Link on the Web with VigLink
Customer Success Manager | VigLink

*Link Insertion has launched! Go to the new "Features" tab in your VigLink account to activate this new feature and increase your revenue!*

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seems they do have issue with it... Now since I am not by nature a rat, i will leave it. You are not worth any feelings I may have later of whether or not you making your pennies was harming me. Frankly it wouldn't bother me if you were legit, but you aren't and I did what I said I was going to do. I go any further and I am a rat, don't like that idea so now if you get busted breaking their rules or FTC codes, you won't be able to blame anybody but yourself. I did the right thing and made people aware there those abusing the service and I even warned you of your actions being misuse and illegal. So my job is done.

So from here on out I will warn everyone I am in a thread with, whenever you post a link, about what you are doing and how you could be using an affiliated link to get them to make you money. Soon you will get busted by viglink, the forum you are in at the time, or the FTC, you are too much an egomaniac not to. And then you will be their problem. 

Frankly I wouldn't doubt if they don't start forcing tracking cookie code into members cache specifically to counter this sort of thing. After all its their money and reputation on the line as well as that of their customers. Bottom line is you can't post google ads in posts, so this is a no-no too. If you are hot-linking from/through a service that uses viglink code you are not authorized to use, you are in essence #1 helping another get paid for nothing and #2 killing bandwidth and in essence stealing from viglink.

And if it weren't bad enough you continue to deny the codes existence in your links when its there beyond a shadow of a doubt. if its not yours, and you didn't know about it, saying would have been in order but instead you try and claim its not there. That tells me its yours, you know about it, and your behavior in all of this shows that you are desperate to hide its existence. If it weren't yours why would you deny it being there? Are you that stupid or just that pathetic? You know its there, you use their service in a way that you know they do not allow that is the only reason you would try so desperately to hide it despite all being able to see it when they click on your link.

Now good day to you trolling blunder, but do not try hot-linking or affiliate linking around me again, otherwise I will make sure people know it.


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## skookerasbil (Oct 18, 2011)

gslack said:


> I got this in my email inbox a bit ago.
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ...




w0w.........how gay is that? 

Funny though GSlack........this phoney Thunder? Falls all over himself pushing this far left crap and NONE of it is working.
After next year........we got the Varsity back in there FTW!!!


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## RollingThunder (Oct 18, 2011)

Here's a very recent article about some research done on the melting glaciers of the Andes and their contribution to sea level rise.


*Mountain glaciers in the Andes are melting the fastest in 350 years*

*Melting mountain glaciers are making sea levels rise faster now than at any time in the last 350 years, according to new research. Universities at Aberystwyth, Exeter and Stockholm looked at longer timescales than usual for their study.*
Merco Press
April 5th 2011
(excerpts)

*They mapped changes in 270 of the largest glaciers between Chile and Argentina since the Little Ice Age. Studies showed glaciers have lost volume on average 10 to 100 times faster in the last 30 years. The rapid melt rate is linked to their contribution to global sea level. The new research was published in the journal Nature Geoscience on Sunday. Their survey centred on remotely sensed images of outlet glaciers of the south and north Patagonian icefields, but used longer timescales than previous studies. The glaciers straddle the Andes, on the border between Chile and Argentina. The northern icefield extends for nearly 200 km and covers a surface of 4,200 square km, while the southern icefield is more than 350km long, covering 13,000 square km. 

Lead author, Professor Neil Glasser of Aberystwyth University, said: Previous estimates of sea-level contribution from mountain glaciers are based on very short timescales. They cover only the last 30 years or so when satellite images can be used to calculate rates of glacier volume change. We took a different approach by using a new method that allows us to look at longer timescales. Their calculations showed that in recent years the mountain glaciers have rapidly increased their melt rate and thus their contribution to global sea level. Dr Stephen Harrison of the University of Exeter, added: The work is significant because it is the first time anyone has made a direct estimate of the sea-level contribution from glaciers since the peak of the industrial revolution (between 1750-1850) He said their results showed that estimates taken a decade ago of rates of glacier contribution to sea-level rise are well above the long-term averages, which cover 1650/1750 to 2010 and 1870-2010.*

© Copyright 1997-2011 MercoPress.

_(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)_


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## Rat in the Hat (Oct 18, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Here's a very recent article about some research done on the melting glaciers of the Andes and their contribution to sea level rise.
> 
> 
> *Mountain glaciers in the Andes are melting the fastest in 350 years*
> ...



Here is a very recent link address for the link you just posted...



> tp://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=773&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmessageboard.com%2Fenvironment%2F189019-vanishing-glaciers-of-the-greater-himalaya-photographic-evidence-9.html&v=1&libid=1318960638584&out=http%3A%2F%2Fen.mercopress.com%2F2011%2F04%2F05%2Fmountain-glaciers-in-the-andes-are-melting-the-fastest-in-350-years&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmessageboard.com%2Fenvironment%2F189019-vanishing-glaciers-of-the-greater-himalaya-photographic-evidence.html&title=Vanishing%20Glaciers%20Of%20The%20Greater%20Himalaya%20-%20Photographic%20evidence%20-%20Page%209%20-%20US%20Message%20Board%20-%20Political%20Discussion%20Forum&txt=Mountain%20glaciers%20in%20the%20Andes%20are%20melting%20the%20fastest%20in%20350%20years&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13189606432411]Mountain[/url] glaciers in the Andes are melting the fastest in 350 years &mdash; MercoPress[/url]


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## IanC (Oct 18, 2011)

hahaha. someone needs to clean the malware from his computer


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## RollingThunder (Oct 18, 2011)

Rat in the Hat said:


> Here is a very recent link address for the link you just posted...
> 
> 
> 
> > tp://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=773&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmessageboard.com%2Fenvironment%2F189019-vanishing-glaciers-of-the-greater-himalaya-photographic-evidence-9.html&v=1&libid=1318960638584&out=http%3A%2F%2Fen.mercopress.com%2F2011%2F04%2F05%2Fmountain-glaciers-in-the-andes-are-melting-the-fastest-in-350-years&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmessageboard.com%2Fenvironment%2F189019-vanishing-glaciers-of-the-greater-himalaya-photographic-evidence.html&title=Vanishing%20Glaciers%20Of%20The%20Greater%20Himalaya%20-%20Photographic%20evidence%20-%20Page%209%20-%20US%20Message%20Board%20-%20Political%20Discussion%20Forum&txt=Mountain%20glaciers%20in%20the%20Andes%20are%20melting%20the%20fastest%20in%20350%20years&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13189606432411]Mountain[/url] glaciers in the Andes are melting the fastest in 350 years &mdash; MercoPress[/url]



Are you slackjawed's sockpuppet? Seriously.

I went and asked two different friends to get on this forum and check my link code and both of them found only a straight link to the site I was quoting. So it's not some code on my computer that is masking the links from me when I look for them (or inserting them when I post). So, I guess I have to ask, where did you get that supposed "_very recent link address_"? I have tried, and my friends tried, to find it and we can't dig it out of the links at all. If we right click and hit 'copy link location' or 'copy address' (depending on browser) and then go copy it somewhere, there is only the direct link. How are you generating that mess you just posted? How is this code supposedly being hidden? If you hit 'quote' on a post, you can see all of the code in that post. How am I supposedly hiding it on the forum's server so it is invisible? 

Unless you can demonstrate a method of retrieving that supposed hidden code, I will have to assume that you are just bullshyting us and your post is another troll attack.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 18, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Rat in the Hat said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a very recent link address for the link you just posted...
> ...



I see it too.

//api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=773&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmessageboard.com%2Fenvironment%2F189019-vanishing-glaciers-of-the-greater-himalaya-photographic-evidence-9.html&v=1&libid=1318963991311&out=http%3A%2F%2Fen.mercopress.com%2F2011%2F04%2F05%2Fmountain-glaciers-in-the-andes-are-melting-the-fastest-in-350-years&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmessageboard.com%2Fusercp.php&title=Vanishing%20Glaciers%20Of%20The%20Greater%20Himalaya%20-%20Photographic%20evidence%20-%20Page%209%20-%20US%20Message%20Board%20-%20Political%20Discussion%20Forum&txt=Mountain%20glaciers%20in%20the%20Andes%20are%20melting%20the%20fastest%20in%20350%20years&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13189639915991


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## Rat in the Hat (Oct 18, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Rat in the Hat said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a very recent link address for the link you just posted...
> ...



I use Opera as my browser. I copied the link location, and pasted it into notepad, and that was the result I got. I also did it with Internet Exploder (yuck) and got the very same link address.

Sorry you can't see the same thing we are seeing. But you probably should run some anti-malware programs to try to get that crap of your machine. It's probably sending info to someone that to really don't want anyone to know about you.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 18, 2011)

gslack said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > gslack said:
> ...



Just went through the first three pages of Rolling Thunders links. These are the kind of links that I saw;

BBC News - Rivers of ice: Vanishing glaciers

G-string, I bet someone has hacked your computer and is making money off of you. Why don't you check on all the links on this board and see what you get. If it comes up that it is in your computer, you owe Rolling Thunder an apology and a vote of thanks for finding that your security has been breached.


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## gslack (Oct 18, 2011)

LOL so 3 more people... Like I said you're either using viglink or you're hot-linking from someone who is, both are douchebag tactics, and at least one will get you in trouble with more than a web forum poster or two..

OLDSOCKS: I run Linux on my PC. Do you know what that is? No of course not, well to make it simple for you its virus free. Its not windows and doesn't  run windows apps or anything.. matter of fact if I were to download a program or exe or zip, or even a damn infected jpeg it wouldn't do anything. It would be just wasted, useless code with nothing to run on or attach to.  There are many other reasons why malware in linux is not going to happen but you wouldn't understand it anyway or even care to.

Now I guess there is no need to ask who at least one of the "friends" he asked to check the code is... The other two were kornhole and one of your respective clones...LOL


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## Old Rocks (Oct 18, 2011)

http://en.mercopress.com/2011/04/05/mountain-glaciers-in-the-andes-are-melting-the-fastest-in-350-

Don't care what you run, G-string. I right click on that site and go to properties, and that is what I get. No vig link at all.


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## gslack (Oct 19, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> http://en.mercopress.com/2011/04/05/mountain-glaciers-in-the-andes-are-melting-the-fastest-in-350-
> 
> Don't care what you run, G-string. I right click on that site and go to properties, and that is what I get. No vig link at all.



Socks what browser do you run?* If you run google chrome (like me) right click on the link and in the menu that pops up select "copy link address" then open notepad or your plain text editor (mine is Gedit) and paste.. *That prevents link masking or automatic stripping of code from a link when you select it. As I said before its in meta tags that call a script, you will not see them in simply clicking properties.. I said this before..

*If you run Firefox right click the link and then from the pop up menu select "send link" that will copy and paste the entire code to an email using your preferred email client or software.* Don't send the email or anything just look at the mess it will put in the email message boddy.

There are other ways like running a simple script blocking plugin or using webmaster tools to check the source for script calls. Thes ways are the quickest and easiest..

Try them and you will see what I (and now others) are saying is the truth. If you don't want to believe me just follow those simple instructions yourself, just as I told you, you will see the code... You will see this...

"http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=773&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmessageboard.com%2Fenvironment%2F189019-vanishing-glaciers-of-the-greater-himalaya-photographic-evidence-10.html&v=1&libid=1319001765294&out=http%3A%2F%2Fen.mercopress.com%2F2011%2F04%2F05%2Fmountain-glaciers-in-the-andes-are-melting-the-fastest-in-350-&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmessageboard.com%2Fenvironment%2F189019-vanishing-glaciers-of-the-greater-himalaya-photographic-evidence-9.html&title=Vanishing%20Glaciers%20Of%20The%20Greater%20Himalaya%20-%20Photographic%20evidence%20-%20Page%2010%20-%20US%20Message%20Board%20-%20Political%20Discussion%20Forum&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fen.mercopress.com%2F2011%2F04%2F05%2F...astest-in-350-&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13190017699231"


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## Rat in the Hat (Oct 19, 2011)

Houston, we have a problem...



gslack said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > Here's some of the latest finding on the deterioration of the Arctic ice cap from one of the world's foremost Arctic researchers, Dr. Stefan Rahmstorf , Professor of Physics of the Oceans at Potsdam University and Department Head at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research. He warns of the inevitable consequences to the Arctic and to sea levels if mankind does not take swift action to drastically reduce carbon emissions.
> ...



Here is what I get for your Project Syndicate link, gslack.



> //api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=773&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmessageboard.com%2Fenvironment%2F86284-arctic-ice-thins-dramatically-117.html&v=1&libid=1319004142260&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.project-syndicate.org%2Fabout_us%2Fwho_we_are&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmessageboard.com%2Fcmps_index.php%3Fpageid%3Dactive_topics&title=Arctic%20ice%20thins%20dramatically%20-%20Page%20117%20-%20US%20Message%20Board%20-%20Political%20Discussion%20Forum&txt=Project%20Syndicate%20-%20the%20highest%20quality%20op-ed%20(%20opinion-editorial%20)%20articles%20and%20commentaries&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13190041614701



Maybe it's the board doing it?


----------



## gslack (Oct 19, 2011)

Rat in the Hat said:


> Houston, we have a problem...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I got that link from trolls original link... But that does pose a bigger issue.. If that site uses viglink, and its on all their links, than troll may just be the sap rather than the perpetrator. As I said before he could be the unwitting user who gets hit with it by the sites he frequently posts from. I asked him about this and he replied by claiming the code wasn't there...

I asked him several times to look and see for himself and he kept adamantly claiming I was making it up. Well if hes not using it directly he uses sites that do use it directly. Which again I said before, which again he denied doing at all...

If viglink is used by sites he frequents and he is not using it directly, then he has nothing to worry about other than allowing sites to make a penny from his posting habits. Which I said as much before. he went into a fit upon the mention of any of this rather than looking for himself.

As I said either hes using it directly or he is linking or hot-linking to sites or services that do. I said this many many times... I am pretty sure the link to the source grabbed the script as it shows in the inspector I run, and they wouldn't call the same script twice on one post it would cause a conflict. So one script call to the same script per post per site. But thats not my area of expertise. So I really can't be sure how it works without more from viglink on it and they are tight-lipped other than to want to know the who, what, and where desperately..

If troll isn't doing it himself directly through viglink hes the unwitting accomplice by spreading the links.. Again I said this many many times.


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## gslack (Oct 19, 2011)

UPDATE TO PREVIOUS POST:

I just went to his originally posted articles link. By using his link I got viglink code. However by googling the sites name "project syndicate" and going to it from the google link (which uses viglink in its ads sometimes) the code is not there at all.. Nor is it on the pages he sent us to or the one I liked to from following his link....

Please do this yourself to make sure I am correct... google the sites name "project syndicate" and then click on the link from the google search and see for yourself there will be no viglink redirect in your address bar. this is not the case when using his link or the link I got from his link...

EDIT: Viglink isn't supposed to be used on a websites URL directly, just in the link to that site. For instance a guy runs a electronics blog and he uses viglink on his articles links. You can go to his site from google without the code there, but you cant go directly to one of his articles from another site without the code. Follow me? he wont put the code on his site's URL link, but puts it in links to his site from others. or calls to a script as it where. So not sure exactly how, but something is funny here..The codes not there when you go there and check their links, but by going there from here using trolls link and mine I got from his link, the code is there...


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## Rat in the Hat (Oct 19, 2011)

gslack said:


> Rat in the Hat said:
> 
> 
> > Houston, we have a problem...
> ...



Actually, I was suggesting it's being added here. And after checking links from a few other posters, it looks like that is the case. One poster I checked is so dumb, she thinks that when her system runs slow it's the mods messing with her, so I KNOW she couldn't add viglink.


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## theliq (Oct 19, 2011)

idiot,IDIOTTHELIQ


skookerasbil said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > Anthropogenic global warming is melting the world's glaciers at increasing rates. This poses some grave dangers to the vast populations around the world who are dependent on glacial melt water feeding into the river systems as a supply of water for drinking and agriculture in the dry summer months. The glaciers of the Himalayas are mostly shrinking rapidly and these glaciers are the source of water for hundreds of millions of people in India and China. Some mountaineer photographers recently took current photos of many glaciers from the same spots that photos were taken many decades ago, showing the changes in the ice very clearly. Take a look.
> ...


----------



## theliq (Oct 19, 2011)

Many Thanks THUNDER


RollingThunder said:


> Anthropogenic global warming is melting the world's glaciers at increasing rates. This poses some grave dangers to the vast populations around the world who are dependent on glacial melt water feeding into the river systems as a supply of water for drinking and agriculture in the dry summer months. The glaciers of the Himalayas are mostly shrinking rapidly and these glaciers are the source of water for hundreds of millions of people in India and China. Some mountaineer photographers recently took current photos of many glaciers from the same spots that photos were taken many decades ago, showing the changes in the ice very clearly. Take a look.
> 
> *Rivers of ice: Vanishing glaciers
> Stunning images from high in the Himalayas - showing the extent by which many glaciers have shrunk in the past 80 years or so - have gone on display at the Royal Geographical Society in central London.*
> 10 October 2011


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## theliq (Oct 19, 2011)

tosser


wirebender said:


> Now all you have to do is provide some hard, observed, repeatable evidence that man is responsible.
> 
> By the way:
> 
> * Which physical law supports and predicts a greenhouse effect as described by warmists? *


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## gslack (Oct 19, 2011)

Rat in the Hat said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > Rat in the Hat said:
> ...



I understand that, I just don't see it in their URL's... Click on an ad you may see it as expected, but if its on posters links posters themselves supply after the fact, than it needs to be disclosed by law.. I havent seen anything on this from anyone in the know at USMB yet and I don't see it listed as a partner or anything on the front page. perhaps I just didn't see it. Either way if its them they need to tell people they are using it on the posters links.

It could be USMB, but why wouldn't some one say something by now? Especially since its against FTC codes not to disclose this? There should be a notification somewhere or something in the TOS or user agreement. Again I am starting to think its something with linking to articles through a service or software like a news aggregator or RSS feed aggregating service. That would make the most sense if its NOT USMB. But again its not my area of expertise..

Either way I have wasted enough time on this. Trolls links have the code, he still denies this despite it being fact. That was my concern from the start. when I asked him about it, he went nuts denying its existence blaming me, or malware on my system calling me a liar, and acting like a general psychopath over it. So I pursued viglink to find out more, and decided not to go further once I found all they wanted was the name of the forum, post number and name, and the user. Anyone that vague about their code I don't trust so dropped it then and there.

if trolls not using it he shouldn't have acted like an idiot and tried to cover it being there up like that. Rather than throwing the fits like he did and calling me a liar...


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## RollingThunder (Oct 19, 2011)

gslack said:


> Rat in the Hat said:
> 
> 
> > gslack said:
> ...



Ah, you stupid twit. I knew the links I was posting didn't have any code in them when I post them and all of the methods (copy link address and paste) you suggested earlier did not reveal any funky code so I thought this was just your usual insanity and general disconnection from reality. However when you finally, a few posts ago, mentioned the 'send link' trick, which you hadn't suggested before, that whole mess of code with the vigilink stuff in it showed up. I immediately did the obvious thing, the thing you would have done long ago, before wasting so much time on this, if you had more than two brain cells to rub together. And that was, of course, to try the same 'send link' trick on somebody else's links, so I went to a thread the walleyedretard had started and, sure enough, his link in the OP showed the same vigilink code. So I checked a few more people's links and guess what, dimbulb, all of the links from everybody have that code so it must be added by this site. I sure wish you'd grow a brain sometime and check things out first before making such a fool out of yourself with your paranoid accusations. I'm sure the folks at vigilink had some fun laughing at your silly shyt. I know I do.


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## gslack (Oct 19, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > Rat in the Hat said:
> ...



That bold stuff... You just lied your ass off... First the code wasn't on *everybody's links* We already established that before. It wasn't on ALL of your links before either. Matter of fact we also established its a script that you or I now have to opt out of from their site, to stop it from running once its linked to in a link. More simply, if it is USMB doing it they have to tell us. and why isn't it in all links on the entire site?

If you weren't so damn defensive you could have helped sort this shit out before, instead of claiming it wasn't there like a damn moron. Instead you sat there lying your ass off and throwing a fit. Either way you were the first I noticed it from, and you claimed it wasn't there... But like I said before it is there, how many links its now on I have no idea, but if it is USMB they have to tell us about it and so far not a peep.

I am opting out of this viglink for now until someone comes clean. It may or may not be harmless, but anyone who has to hide it like this tells me its being misused. If i were you and you're not using it, then I would opt out too. Especially a multiple ID packing forum junky like yourself, hell dude you could be the typhoid mary of viglink. 

Next time don't be such a defensive crybaby.


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## RollingThunder (Oct 19, 2011)

gslack said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > gslack said:
> ...



Jeez, you're pathetic. You still won't admit that you were wrong and that you wasted two pages on two threads with your hysterical and totally inaccurate accusations and attacks. If you'd just checked a few other links on other threads first you wouldn't have ended up looking even more retarded than usual (which is hard to do).


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## Old Rocks (Oct 19, 2011)

G-string is an asshole. A regular dip. And a dumb one at that.


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## gslack (Oct 19, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



Really?? Lets review...

1. I asked you about the viglink code in your link and you said it wasn't there.
But now we know it is even by your own admission..  I was right..

2. I showed it was there and told multiple ways to see it, and you denied it being there and claimed repeatedly you were doing the same thing I was doing and did not see it. But now you admit to doing it the way I explained and you see it now too... I was right...

3. I said you were either using viglink yourself directly or inadvertently using it by some other means. inadvertently means by accident or you were unaware you were using it. And again you freely admit the codes in your link now (even claim its in everyones links but I have blocked viglink now so I don't know).. I was right again..

4. I said you were either the perpetrator of affiliate linking here, or someones victim of their affiliate linking. And again, you admit the codes there and claim you didn't put it there, making you the victim of someones affiliate linking... And Again I was right..


Gee troll, if I were anymore right about this it would be uncanny wouldn't it... So... tell me what exactly were you right about? Well so far I haven't seen anything you have been right about. The code is there tool, and you even admit it.. Matter of fact you found it by doing what exactly?

Come on tool tell us all how you found out I was right? You can tell us again.. Oh I know, you did what I said to do and ya found it...


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## gslack (Oct 19, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> G-string is an asshole. A regular dip. And a dumb one at that.



So tell me oldsocks is the code there now? ..yeah you showed what a lying POS you are by denying its existence to cover your pals ass... 

Do you even have a spine left?

EDIT: Oldsock I just noticed you neg repped me because your little friend was wrong about the code... LOL you really are that pathetic... Why not throw a tantrum then...LOL


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## Rat in the Hat (Oct 19, 2011)

gslack said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > G-string is an asshole. A regular dip. And a dumb one at that.
> ...



C'mon buddy, give them a break. If they're using FireFox or Chrome with AdBlock Plus or Java Script Block, they can't see the codes we see with Opera or I-Exploder.


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## gslack (Oct 19, 2011)

Rat in the Hat said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



Oh I did, he decided to come and claim I made it up again despite it being known full and well I wasn't.. Typical oldsocks childish BS.. I just poked him back a lil.. All good..

Thanks rat, I appreciate you speaking up on this. I respect you so I will stop, but he or socks tries to claim a bullshit tale again, I will defend myself.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 20, 2011)

From what? Yourself?

The subject, in any case, is the warming of the atmosphere and ocean by the introduction of GHGs by humans. It has been clearly shown by the scientists that this is happening, and already creating changes in the weather. Changes that are not good for a world with 7 billion humans on it. 

I have linked to scientists and those that keep records on matters such as storm damage losses, both buildings and agriculteral. You fellows simply have replied with bullshit, mostly from non-scientists and known liars like the fake Lord Monkton.


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## gslack (Oct 20, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> From what? Yourself?
> 
> The subject, in any case, is the warming of the atmosphere and ocean by the introduction of GHGs by humans. It has been clearly shown by the scientists that this is happening, and already creating changes in the weather. Changes that are not good for a world with 7 billion humans on it.
> 
> I have linked to scientists and those that keep records on matters such as storm damage losses, both buildings and agriculteral. You fellows simply have replied with bullshit, mostly from non-scientists and known liars like the fake Lord Monkton.



Good then why did you try and change it a second ago? yeah.. Socks seriously you are the biggest weasel on this forum..


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## Old Rocks (Oct 20, 2011)

No, I am just an old millwright that can understand when dummies are trying to bullshit me. And am not afraid to state that is the case. 

Once again, when are you going to get some real science to back your opinion?


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## gslack (Oct 20, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> No, I am just an old millwright that can understand when dummies are trying to bullshit me. And am not afraid to state that is the case.
> 
> Once again, when are you going to get some real science to back your opinion?



uhm...how about when you do? You just tried to call me a liar and when it was found to be false you try and pretend you are about the thread topic all of a sudden...

Socks I have caught you lying so much its not even a surprise anymore


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 20, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> From what? Yourself?
> 
> The subject, in any case, is the warming of the atmosphere and ocean by the introduction of GHGs by humans. It has been clearly shown by the scientists that this is happening, and already creating changes in the weather. Changes that are not good for a world with 7 billion humans on it.
> 
> I have linked to scientists and those that keep records on matters such as storm damage losses, both buildings and agriculteral. You fellows simply have replied with bullshit, mostly from non-scientists and known liars like the fake Lord Monkton.



If it has clearly been shown that we're responsible, why the need for the "hockey stick" and "hide the decline"?

Are you in favor of building lots of new nuclear power plants?


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## konradv (Oct 20, 2011)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > From what? Yourself?
> ...



What's your point here?  We're supposed to show something without data?  The "hockey stick" is data.  You "hide the decline" from other sources to reveal what the human contribution to warming is.  How else do you suggest it be shown?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 20, 2011)

konradv said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



The point is, if we're really to blame and it's so obvious, why the lies?
Why the deceitful "hockey stick".
Is "hide the decline" deceitful in anyway?
Why not give us 100% accurate data? It's hard enough with the heat island issue, they have to falsify the data too?


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## Old Rocks (Oct 20, 2011)

Toddler, the hockey stick has been confirmed multiple times. Just because you are an ignoramous to lazy to research does not mean the rest of us are.

What evidence is there for the hockey stick?

Hockey stick is broken
"In 2003 Professor McKitrick teamed with a Canadian engineer, Steve McIntyre, in attempting to replicate the hockey stick and debunked it as statistical nonsense.  They revealed how the chart was derived from 'collation errors, unjustified truncation or extrapolation of source data, obsolete data, incorrect principal component calculations, geographical mislocations and other serious defects', substantially affecting the temperature index." (John McLaughlin)

What the science says...
Since the hockey stick paper in 1998, there have been a number of proxy studies analysing a variety of different sources including corals, stalagmites, tree rings, boreholes and ice cores. They all confirm the original hockey stick conclusion: the 20th century is the warmest in the last 1000 years and that warming was most dramatic after 1920.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 20, 2011)

Now Toddler, what heat island issue. That was resolved by Muler and company.

Global warming: Critics' review unexpectedly supports scientific consensus on climate change - Los Angeles Times

The Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature project was launched by physics professor Richard Muller, a longtime critic of government-led climate studies, to address what he called "the legitimate concerns" of skeptics who believe that global warming is exaggerated

But Muller unexpectedly told a congressional hearing last week that the work of the three principal groups that have analyzed the temperature trends underlying climate science is "excellent.... We see a global warming trend that is very similar to that previously reported by the other groups."

The hearing was called by GOP leaders of the House Science & Technology committee, who have expressed doubts about the integrity of climate science. It was one of several inquiries in recent weeks as the Environmental Protection Agency's efforts to curb planet-heating emissions from industrial plants and motor vehicles have come under strenuous attack in Congress.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 20, 2011)

The lies are what the denialists are feeding you. And, like a good little sheep, you don't even bother to research what the scientists are really stating. Just another lazy ass 'Conservative'.


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## IanC (Oct 20, 2011)

konradv said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



Mann's hockey stick was a blatant abuse of data and methodology that is still tainting research to this day. it is a black eye for climate science that should never have passed peer review in the first place and should have been disavowed once the errors became known.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 20, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Toddler, the hockey stick has been confirmed multiple times. Just because you are an ignoramous to lazy to research does not mean the rest of us are.
> 
> What evidence is there for the hockey stick?
> 
> ...



Thanks for the link. I like this chart.






Where did the Medieval Warming Period go?


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## westwall (Oct 20, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Toddler, the hockey stick has been confirmed multiple times. Just because you are an ignoramous to lazy to research does not mean the rest of us are.
> 
> What evidence is there for the hockey stick?
> 
> ...







Really?  Dr. Muller doesn't seem to think so....



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BQpciw8suk]Climategate &#39;hide the decline&#39; explained by Berkeley professor Richard A. Muller - YouTube[/ame]


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 20, 2011)

westwall said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Toddler, the hockey stick has been confirmed multiple times. Just because you are an ignoramous to lazy to research does not mean the rest of us are.
> ...



Thanks for the link.


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## RollingThunder (Oct 20, 2011)

westwall said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Toddler, the hockey stick has been confirmed multiple times. Just because you are an ignoramous to lazy to research does not mean the rest of us are.
> ...



LOLOLOL....you are so predictable....always lame....

*Professor Richard Muller - another climate science denier exposed.

Myth vs. Fact Regarding the "Hockey Stick"
*


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 20, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



*they make false accusations of fraud and malign the characters of decent, honest climate scientists such as Michael Mann and James Hansen. That's what they do, because that's all they have*

OMG! Thanks for the laugh.


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## RollingThunder (Oct 20, 2011)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



Except of course for the fact that smearing scientists and pushing disinformation and lies is actually all that you anti-science denier cult retards have to offer in your deranged 'holy war' against modern climate science as you play the unwitting dupes of the fossil fuel industry.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 20, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



"Modern climate science" shouldn't have to lie if the truth is on their side.

So what's your solution to global warming? More nukes? Or should we destroy our economy instead?


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## Old Rocks (Oct 20, 2011)

The economy will be destroyed by the affects on agriculture of the continued warming at some point in the future. That is a certainty. For we are not going to do the neccessary things to reduce our output of GHGs. The grand experiment will be made.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 20, 2011)

The hockey stick graph has been confirmed repeatedly by many differant methods. Live with it. 

Why fight it, the data is correct, and you dopes are getting your way, we will find out in my lifetime what doubling of the CO2 in the atmosphere means.


----------



## RollingThunder (Oct 20, 2011)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Modern climate science *doesn't* have to lie. The truth *is* on "_their side_". The evidence is clear and overwhelming. You've been lied to about these supposed "_lies_".

It is your puppet-masters in the fossil fuel industry who are lying, to you and to the public, about the reality and dangers of AGW as they seek to keep the public confused and to prevent any effective action to limit carbon emissions and consequently their profits from selling carbon emitting fuels.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 20, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> The hockey stick graph has been confirmed repeatedly by many differant methods. Live with it.
> 
> Why fight it, the data is correct, and you dopes are getting your way, we will find out in my lifetime what doubling of the CO2 in the atmosphere means.



Yes, it's been confirmed that they plugged the data to make it look scary. If it was as scary as they claim, they'd have no need to fake it.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 20, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



Hide the decline wasn't to perpetuate a lie? Then why did they want to hide it?
And where did the Medieval Warming Period go in the famous hockey stick chart?
Should we build more nuke plants, to reduce CO2?


----------



## Old Rocks (Oct 20, 2011)

Well, Toddler, you are certainly one brain dead ass.

Simply put, every Scientific Society, every National Academy of Science, and every major University states that AGW is real, and a clear and present danger. 

Of course, an ignoramous of a message board poster that presents zero evidence for his statements is supposed to convince us otherwise. LOL


----------



## westwall (Oct 20, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> The economy will be destroyed by the affects on agriculture of the continued warming at some point in the future. That is a certainty. For we are not going to do the neccessary things to reduce our output of GHGs. The grand experiment will be made.







Complete and utter horseshit.  Every study that has done a cost/benefit analysis has stated quite clearly that in a warmer world agriculture goes gangbusters.  It's only in the alarmist deluded computer models (by the way have they EVER been able to get one that even came close to approximating the real world?  The answer is still NO!) that say otherwise.

They have been wrong on every count and in every prediction so far but you all have "faith", and as we all know when it comes to religion that's all you need.


----------



## westwall (Oct 20, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...






Care to list how many "mistakes" they've made then?


----------



## Old Rocks (Oct 20, 2011)

Once again, you are full of shit, Walleyes.

[ARCHIVED CONTENT] Stern Review on the Economics of Climate Change - HM Treasury


----------



## westwall (Oct 20, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Well, Toddler, you are certainly one brain dead ass.
> 
> Simply put, every Scientific Society, every National Academy of Science, and every major University states that AGW is real, and a clear and present danger.
> 
> Of course, an ignoramous of a message board poster that presents zero evidence for his statements is supposed to convince us otherwise. LOL







And you're a brainless fool.  Answer his question silly person.  Why did they have to "hide the decline" then.  C'mon MENSA BOY!  Tell us!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 20, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Well, Toddler, you are certainly one brain dead ass.
> 
> Simply put, every Scientific Society, every National Academy of Science, and every major University states that AGW is real, and a clear and present danger.
> 
> Of course, an ignoramous of a message board poster that presents zero evidence for his statements is supposed to convince us otherwise. LOL



Where did the Medieval Warm Period go?


----------



## RollingThunder (Oct 21, 2011)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


No it wasn't. And if you had ever bothered to actually learn anything about this instead of being a propaganda parrot, you would know that.

"Hide the decline" refers to a decline in tree growth, not temperatures, at certain locations in the upper northern hemisphere since about 1960. For reasons not yet clearly understood, the spacing of tree rings, which had previously for centuries been observed to vary in a close relationship to temperatures, began to change their spacing and no longer correlated to the actual measured temperatures very well.




Toddsterpatriot said:


> Then why did they want to hide it?


They didn't want to hide "_it_" or anything else. The tree ring divergence problem was publicly discussed in the peer-reviewed literature for fourteen years before the CRU emails were stolen in 2009. The decline in tree-ring growth was discussed openly in both in the IPCC 2001 Third Assessment Report and again more thoroughly in the 2007 Fourth Assessment Report.


*Clearing up misconceptions regarding 'hide the decline'*
(excerpt)
*The "decline" refers to a decline in northern tree-rings, not global temperature, and is openly discussed in papers and the IPCC reports.
*






Toddsterpatriot said:


> And where did the Medieval Warming Period go in the famous hockey stick chart?


It's right over there on the left. "_The Medieval Warm Period (MWP)...was a time of warm climate in the North Atlantic region...lasting from about AD 950 to 1250._"






*Two more independent studies back the Hockey Stick: Recent global warming is unprecedented in magnitude and speed and cause*
September 21, 2010





Toddsterpatriot said:


> Should we build more nuke plants, to reduce CO2?


That's one of the worst of the proposed ways to reduce CO2 emissions by switching energy systems.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 21, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



*For reasons not yet clearly understood, the spacing of tree rings, which had previously for centuries been observed to vary in a close relationship to temperatures,*

Close relationship? Because they had real temperature readings back in 1200? That's funny. 

*It's right over there on the left.*

Sure, on your chart, but not on Mann's.
Try again.




Where's the MWP?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 21, 2011)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Should we build more nuke plants, to reduce CO2?





RollingThunder said:


> That's one of the worst of the proposed ways to reduce CO2 emissions by switching energy systems.



Why is it bad? Zero emissions and energy that's actually there when you need it. Unlike wind and solar.


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## skookerasbil (Oct 21, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...












HOLY MOTHER OF GOD...................

This nutter has been posting up the same lame-ass stuff for two years......as if it matters!!!


Hey s0n...............still waiting for those links


Asked this bozo two weeks ago to come up with a SINGLE LINK to show us how all his posted hysterical climate data garbage is resulting in ANY significant effort to reduce carbon emmissions.


yuk.............yuk..............


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## skookerasbil (Oct 21, 2011)




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## skookerasbil (Oct 21, 2011)

*So much winning.................*


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## peach174 (Oct 21, 2011)

How about NASA's study which was released on July 27, 2011 on more heat being released and the alarmist's computer models being faulty.

New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmism - Yahoo! News

The trees are being destroyed by Mountain Pine Beetles. 

There has been tree ring growth not decline.
Recent unprecedented tree-ring growth in bristlecone pine at the highest elevations and possible causes
Mountain Pine Beetle FIDL 2


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## Old Rocks (Oct 21, 2011)

*So says a political opinion hack, not a scientist.*

New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmism - Yahoo! News

James M. Taylor is senior fellow for environment policy at The Heartland Institute and managing editor of Environment & Climate News.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 21, 2011)

*Here are the real studies, their implications, and caveats*.

Arbiters of Energy : Feature Articles

*Now Peaches, if you read the whole study, you will find that there is 4 watts more heat escaping from IR radiation from the atmosphere, and 4 watts less reflection from the ground. That dingleberry political hack only choose to mention the heat from the atmospheric radiation, and ignored the heat that was not reflected from the ground.*

A Delicate Balance: Signs of Change in the Tropics : Feature Articles

&#8220;What we found was a 4-watt-per-square-meter change within the climate system that the climate models did not predict,&#8221; says Wielicki. Over the last 15 years, without anyone&#8217;s knowledge, the amount of thermal, long-wave radiation escaping the atmosphere above the tropics increased by 4 watts per square meter. At the same time the amount of reflected sunlight, which is mostly in the form of short-wave visible and near-visible light, decreased by 4 watts per square meter. The change appears to have occurred gradually over the past decade and a half and as such was likely completely independent from El Niño (Wielicki et al. 2002). Though 4 watts of energy is only a fraction of the 342 watts per square meter of solar energy that hits the Earth&#8217;s outer atmosphere, the Earth&#8217;s energy budget is usually extremely stable over the long term, and changes of more than a couple of watts are significant.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 21, 2011)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Should we build more nuke plants, to reduce CO2?
> ...



Fourth and fifth generation plants, plants that cannot melt down, would be great. They also would 'burn' the present waste. But the plants that can fail catastrophically, like Fukushima, are simply too dangerous.

The problem is cost. Nuclear has turned out to be the most expensive power. So, it will make a good base for the alternatives, but the alternatives, wind, solar, and geothermal, will be far less costly. Wind is already less costly than dirty coal. Solar is getting there. Geothermal, according to the scientists at MIT, has the best potential of all to be inexpensive, compared to nuclear.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 21, 2011)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Mann made that first chart with data available at the time. The further refinements made in the last few years up to present show the MWP, and continue to show the hockey stick. Do you understand that science is a continual development of theory and hypothesis, driven by data? Mann's graph was the first, like most first efforts, crude compared to later efforts. He used the data he had, and those following added more data. The result was the same, just a more ugly hockey stick.

Todd, learn a bit about how science works. From scientists, not the poltical hacks you have been quoting.


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## bripat9643 (Oct 21, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> No it wasn't. And if you had ever bothered to actually learn anything about this instead of being a propaganda parrot, you would know that.
> 
> "Hide the decline" refers to a decline in tree growth, not temperatures, at certain locations in the upper northern hemisphere since about 1960. For reasons not yet clearly understood, the spacing of tree rings, which had previously for centuries been observed to vary in a close relationship to temperatures, began to change their spacing and no longer correlated to the actual measured temperatures very well.



In other words, he had to hide the fact that the proxies he used for temperature weren't valid during the period when he actually had temperature records.  He hid the fact that his evidence is 100% bogus.  The statement is more incriminating than it sounds, not less.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 21, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



Mann needed to refine the chart to show the MWP? Didn't he know about the MWP when he made the first chart? I heard about the MWP when I was a little kid. 

You'd think the only refinement would be the recent data. You know, the data he had to manipulate and trick to "hide the decline".

Maybe Mann should learn a bit about how science works. From scientists, not political hacks.


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## gslack (Oct 21, 2011)

I love it when oldsocks pulls "skeptical science" material out of his ass... 

First a bit from "skepticla science's" "about us" page.

About Skeptical Science

"About the author
Skeptical Science is maintained by John Cook, the Climate Communication Fellow for the Global Change Institute at the University of Queensland. He studied physics at the University of Queensland, Australia. After graduating, he majored in solar physics in his post-grad honours year. *He is not a climate scientist.* Consequently, the science presented on Skeptical Science is not his own but taken directly from the peer reviewed scientific literature. To those seeking to refute the science presented, one needs to address the peer reviewed papers where the science comes from (links to the full papers are provided whenever possible)."

I bolded the important bits.... So hes not a climate scientist, all it says is he majored in solar physics for post grad year... What is a "Climate Communication Fellow" ? Best I can find is its a climate science PR job or something like it...

So skeptical science? LOL the skeptical part is a con, there is nothing skeptical about this site, and the science part is dubious to say the least. He is a PR man plain and simple. An educated one but still a PR man...


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## Old Rocks (Oct 21, 2011)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



OK, Todd, you dumb fuck. Mann is a scientist, not a willfully ignorant ass like you. And, were you to bother reading the damned graphs, you would see that many of the later ones were done by other researchers completely independent of Mann.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 21, 2011)

gslack said:


> I love it when oldsocks pulls "skeptical science" material out of his ass...
> 
> First a bit from "skepticla science's" "about us" page.
> 
> ...



G-idiot, how would you recognize science in any case?


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## gslack (Oct 21, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > I love it when oldsocks pulls "skeptical science" material out of his ass...
> ...



Can't defend your position so you cry about me again... Socks when exactly have you shown anything other than a desire to cut and paste one-sided pseudo-science?

Seriously you are a walking windpower propaganda mill, you care nothing of science, and actually know less than your average 4 year old.

You have been asked several times to explain the formula you cut and pasted in a thread recently, and as of yet you have ran from it.. You claimed or at least gave the impression you understood it, yet you run like a coward from defending it or even answering any questions about it..

Now when you actually show an ability to understand the science yourself with your opinion and your statements that you defend yourself, you can lecture to me about what you think I know or don't know.. Right now I know you are full of shit, a liar, a fraud, a phony, and have a definite ulterior motive to support this crap...


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 21, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
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Yeah, he's a scientist who falsified data to "hide the decline". 
A scientist who hid the MWP to make it look warmer now than it was back then.


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## RollingThunder (Oct 22, 2011)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Still sticking to those crazy denier cult myths, eh numbskull? LOL.

No data was "_falsified_" and temperatures have not "_declined_". This was explained to you and you're apparently still too stupid to get it.

The MWP was not global and it was not warmer then than it is now. More pointless denier cult myths. It would make no difference to the conclusions of the climate scientists if the MWP had been warmer or more wide spread because it just isn't that significant in the context of all of other evidence for an anthropogenic cause for the current abrupt warming trend.


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## gslack (Oct 22, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



And so far warming now has not been global either. Its warmer some places, colder some places, thats how climate works.

The MWP covered the North Atlantic region, and by coincidence all the reports of Ice loss seem to focus primarily on what region? The north Atlantic and arctic regions... Seems a bit odd that we are expected to accept  todays ice loss in a region as a global crisis but when it happened years ago its of no significance on a global scale...

You people need to start using you head and thinking.....


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## RollingThunder (Oct 22, 2011)

gslack said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Both stupid and wrong, as is usually the case with your posts. The world average temperatures have increased. It is not in some mythical balance where "_its(sic) warmer some places_" but that is offset by it being "_colder some places_". That is not "_how climate works_".  That is your own personal retarded and mistaken notion of how climate works. Temperatures are rising pretty much everywhere on Earth, some places more than others.


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## IanC (Oct 22, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



no Rocks, you are the dumb fuck who is willfully ignorant of the misuse of temperature proxies no matter how often it is pointed out to you. there are a few hundred proxy sets with only a handful showing a hockey stick shape, the rest are mostly noise. the studies that support Mann's work all take a few of those HS shaped proxy sets and add in some noise from the large set of non-HS proxies and then say, "look, it is consistent with Mann".

when you put a spoonful of shit into a pint of ice cream you get a pint of shit. it has been shown many times that removing the handful of favourite HS proxies also removes the hockey stick shape. not only that but many of the treering HS shaped proxy sets have been updated but the results were disappointing so only the old sets are typically used. other types of proxies like the Tiljander sediment cores are used even though it is well known that they are unsuitable for the purpose and indeed have been _turned upsidedown_! 

just last year a widely publicized study on sea level rise not only included Mann's use of the upsidedown Tiljander cores but it also arbitrarily added a 0.5K offset to the HadCRU temp data to make the graph splice together. _he changed actual measured data to match a reconstruction with a large uncertainty!!!!!!_  dont you think a real scientist would do it the other way around?

I could go on about the little half lies that started in the nineties, and when no one called them out they became bigger and bigger until the big lie of Mann's Hockey Stick was born. but no one really cares anyway.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 22, 2011)

Yes, you could go on and continue that nonsense, Ian.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 22, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



*No data was "falsified" *

He manipulated the recent tree ring data. Why do that if the truth is on his side?

*The MWP was not global*

Prove it.

*and it was not warmer then than it is now*

Warm enough for the Vikings to settle Greenland. And a thriving wine industry in England.
And all with no AGW.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 22, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



* The world average temperatures have increased*

How do you measure average world temperatures? Spell it out.


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## gslack (Oct 22, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



Stop editing my quotes weasel!!!!

Thats a TOS violation scumbag they just posted new rules on this very think telling us all not to do it. 

If are going to quote my posts than you show my posts in the quote you little POS...


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## RollingThunder (Oct 28, 2011)

gslack said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > gslack said:
> ...



Fuck you, you retarded asswipe!


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## westwall (Oct 28, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...






I guess you inhaled too much MTBE huh?  Civil conversation is impossible for you to accomplish now.


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## RollingThunder (Oct 28, 2011)

From the Himalayas to the our own Pacific Northwest, glaciers are melting away and starting to disappear entirely. Here is an interesting and informative article on the history and the retreat of those Northwest glaciers.

*Our Vanishing Glaciers* 
(excerpts)

*The white expanse of the White Chuck Glacier graced the slopes south of Glacier Peak for thousands of years, experiencing periods of advance and retreat until the 20th century.   The last retreat, which began around 1930, culminated in the total disappearance of the north branch of the glacier in 2001. No more does this glacier dominate the headwaters of the White Chuck River, and its demise will alter the rivers hydrology to the detriment of late summer water supply and the salmon that return to this glacially fed river. So, why did this glacier disappear? And is the White Chuck indicative of the future of other Pacific Northwest glaciers? *





_White Chuck Glacier from Glacier Gap looking down the north branch 
in 1973 (Neil Hinckley photo) and 2006 (Leor Pantilat photo)._

* When the climate becomes unfavorable, a glacier responds by melting upward from the lowest and warmest terminus portion. If this new footprint does not stabilize, this indicates disequilibrium with current climate, and the glacier will ultimately disappear. The clearest symptom of disequilibrium is thinning, which indicates a lack of a consistent accumulation zone where at least part of the years snowfall can survive through the following melt season. In order to to survive, a glacier needs 60 to 70 percent of its area to be accumulation zone. Of the twelve North Cascade glaciers we have been systematically remapping, nine are thinning as much in the accumulation zone as near the terminus, indicating the extent of glaciers in disequilibrium.*





_Eldorado from Forbidden Peak in 1979 and 1996. Note terminus position on the glaciers 
right. (Photos © Lowell Skoog)_

*These observations make clear that retreat of North Cascade glaciers is rapid and ubiquitous. All 47 glaciers monitored by our project are currently undergoing a significant retreat or have disappeared altogether. Ongoing temperature rises combined with a reduction in snow accumulation in the North Cascades have resulted in widespread disequilibrium. Even the wet winter of 2007 yielded barely above-average snowpack in the mountains as more of that precipitation fell as rain. The net loss over the last 20 years is a significant portion of the total glacier volume, estimated at 18 to 32 percent. Sadly, prevailing conditions provide little evidence that North Cascade glaciers are close to equilibrium. Their ongoing thinning indicates that all of the glaciers will continue to retreat into the foreseeable future.*





_Honeycomb Glacier in 1977 (Bill Arundell photo, courtesy Mauri Pelto) and 
in 2006 (Lowell Skoog photo)._

©2007 Northwest Mountaineering Journal

_(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)_


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## westwall (Oct 28, 2011)

Oh looky here, not all glaciers are retreating!  Who woulda thunk it!  Of course the source is the USGS so it's automatically suspect.

Advancing Glacier Coming Close to Blocking Fiord Near Yakutat, Alaska

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

June 13, 2002, west-view from above Russell Fiord, looking toward Yakutat Bay and Turner Glacier. The advancing terminus of Hubbard Glacier is in the foreground. The point of closure is not visible, blocked from view by Gilbert Point. USGS Photograph by Bruce F. Molnia (6/13/02-24) 
June 13, 2002, south-view from above the advancing terminus of Hubbard Glacier, of the mouth of Russell Fiord, showing the glacier margin and the push moraine that is blocked the entrance of the fiord. The push moraine is composed of sediment bulldozed from the floor of Russell Fiord by the advancing ice. Some of this sediment can be seen in contact with the bedrock on the south wall of the fiord. Water exiting Russell Fiord has cut a channel into the top of the moraine. USGS Photograph by Bruce F. Molnia (6/13/02-29) 

June 13, 2002, southwest-view from above the advancing terminus of Hubbard Glacier, of the mouth of Russell Fiord, showing the glacier margin and the push moraine that blocked the entrance of the fiord. The push moraine is composed of sediment bulldozed from the floor of Russell Fiord by the advancing ice. Some of this sediment can be seen in contact with the bedrock on the south wall of the fiord. Water exiting Russell Fiord has cut a channel into the top of the moraine. USGS Photograph by Bruce F. Molnia (6/13/02-30) 






Advancing Glacier Coming Close to Blocking Fiord Near Yakutat, Alaska


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## westwall (Oct 28, 2011)

Whoops!  Here's another one!  But hey it's only Scientific American, tghey don't know anything!


Advancing Alaskan Glacier Holds Clues to Global Sea Level Rise

Scientists aim to find out why an Alaska glacier is ignoring all climate signals as it advances to the sea--and what that means for sea levels around the world.

 By Nathan Rice and The Daily Climate  | January 4, 2011 |7


MYSTERY IN ICE: Whether Alaskan glaciers--and ice sheets the world over--advance to the sea or melt down will help determine sea levels for centuries to come.Image: Frank Kovalchek, courtesy Flickr

ICY BAY, AlaskaThe icebergs looked impenetrable. Roman Motyka needed a route through.

"If you see an opening anywhere, let me know," said the University of Alaska Fairbanks glaciologist, at the wheel of a small skiff puttering through the ice-choked bay off the Gulf of Alaska.

Beyond the iceberg maze loomed the nose of a glacier that, contrary to a warming climate, is advancing into the sea. Motyka and his team were here - in one of the most ice-covered regions on the planet - to find out why.



Advancing Alaskan Glacier Holds Clues to Global Sea Level Rise: Scientific American


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## westwall (Oct 28, 2011)

Uh Oh!  Here are another two of the bastards!  How dare they advance a kilometer since 1985!  Don't they know they're supposed to be in inexorable retreat?


"Both the Franz Josef and Fox Glaciers are included in the Te Waipounamu World Heritage Area due to their uniqueness. They were named after the emperor of Austria-Hungary and a former New Zealand premier. Despite their consistent retreat throughout most of the 20th Century, they have advanced over 1 km since 1985."


About Franz Josef


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## RollingThunder (Nov 2, 2011)

westwall said:


> Oh looky here, not all glaciers are retreating!  Who woulda thunk it!  Of course the source is the USGS so it's automatically suspect.


LOLOLOL.....you're giving yourself away again, walleyed. "_Who woulda thunk it_"???? Well, *just about anyone who had actually read anything about this issue* instead of just parroting silly propaganda. Everyone who does actually look into this issue will find that while most glaciers are retreating and shrinking, a few in certain select locations are still advancing and/or growing. It is a standard denier cult tactic when debating the world's shrinking glaciers to cherry-pick the few that are growing and say: "_see, glaciers are not shrinking because here's one that is growing_".  LOLOL. Once again you reveal yourself to be one of those denier cult cherry-pickers who tries to obscure the long term trends. You ignore the findings of the actual scientific studies of the glaciers that are advancing which say that it is mostly due to the increased precipitation due to global warming increasing the snowfall amounts in a few select regions. 

I started this thread talking about the vanishing glaciers of the Himalayas and you just responded with some links to three articles about advancing tidewater glaciers in Alaska. Aside from cherry-picking a few glaciers that are advancing out of the many tens of thousands worldwide that are shrinking, you cherry-picked only select parts of the article from Scientific American (you probably don't even read the articles you cite, you just parrot quotes off some denier cult blog). From the one from SA on the Yahtse glacier - "*But as the Yahtse advances, it is also thinning...*"

The vast majority of the world's glaciers are losing ice mass through shrinking and thinning. Some glaciers are sliding into the oceans more rapidly because the melt water passes to the bottom of the glacier and lubricates it.

Here's the real story on the shrinkage of the world's glaciers in these graphs.





*Long term changes in glacier volume adapted from Cogley 2009*. 






*The World Glacier Monitoring Service tracks mass balance 
measurements for a sample of glaciers from around the world. 
The table above shows the glacier mass balance over 2002 
and 2003 (negative values indicate shrinkage)*


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## gslack (Nov 2, 2011)

Spam alert!


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## RollingThunder (Nov 2, 2011)

gslack said:


> Spam alert!



Yeah, you should definitately include that warning every time you post something, slackjawedidiot.


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## RollingThunder (Nov 2, 2011)

Here's some recent news from scientists in China about the melting of the glaciers in Tibet.

*Glaciers in Tibet melting due to global warming: Researchers*
CORPORATE  PRESS  RELEASES  (INDIA) news desk
October 24, 2011
(excerpts)

*Glaciers in southwest Chinas Qinghai-Tibetan Plateau, a key source of major rivers in this country and those in the Indian subcontinent, are melting faster than ever under the influence of global warming, Chinese researchers have warned. Results from the study show that a large area of the glaciers has melted in the 2,400-square-kilometre region. Glaciers are the largest source of fresh water on the planet. They are also a reliable indicator of climate change, and easy for scientists to observe.

An expert with Qinghais Three-River Headwaters Office said the cluster of some 80 glaciers around the Aemye Ma-chhen Range, the source of the Yellow River headwaters, is shrinking especially fast. Cheng Haining, a senior engineer with the provincial surveying and mapping bureau, said about 5.3 per cent, or 70 square kilometres, of the glaciers in Yangtze headwaters had melted away over the past three decades. Cheng said that the melting of glaciers is closely connected with climate change. He said the data collected by three meteorological stations over the past 50 years show a continued rise in the average temperature of the three-river headwaters area. The winter of 2009, for example, was the warmest in 15 years, according to the provincial climate centre. Last year the average temperature there hit a five-decade record high. Local residents in Yushu Tibet Autonomous Prefecture said Lancang River froze in November in the 1970s, but it did not freeze at all in 1999. It is estimated that 70 per cent of the glaciers in Lancang River headwaters have disappeared due to the warm weather, researchers said.

Xin Yuanhong, a senior engineer with the Qinghai Hydrography and Geology Study Centre, said the melting of the glaciers could lead to a water shortage and even a dry-up of rivers in the long run, and consequent ecological disasters like wetland retreat and desertification. The Qinghai-Tibetan Plateau is among the regions worst hit by global warming. Consequently, this will have a deleterious effect on the global climate as well as the livelihood of Asian people, Qin Dahe, a researcher with the Chinese Academy of Sciences, said.*

Copyright © 2011. Corporate Press Releases (India). All Rights Reserved.

_(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)_


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## skookerasbil (Nov 2, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> From the Himalayas to the our own Pacific Northwest, glaciers are melting away and starting to disappear entirely. Here is an interesting and informative article on the history and the retreat of those Northwest glaciers.
> 
> *Our Vanishing Glaciers*
> (excerpts)
> ...













s0n.......you have the political IQ of a small marine battery terminal.

The country is 14 trillion in debt. The growth rate is anemic. Budget cuts are a comin'............

You think anybody ( besides a nutter) gives one crap about spending more government $$ on the fraudulent green industry? ( another went down this week......only cost 41 million this time )

Glaciers are gay.......and nobody gives a flying fuckk.



>>at this time, I defer to Polar Bear to respond with science realities<<


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## skookerasbil (Nov 2, 2011)




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## Toddsterpatriot (Nov 2, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Oh looky here, not all glaciers are retreating!  Who woulda thunk it!  Of course the source is the USGS so it's automatically suspect.
> ...



Don't forget the glacier that used to cover Chicago.
It melted all up and now we only have the Great Lakes.
I blame GM.


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## gslack (Nov 2, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Here's some recent news from scientists in China about the melting of the glaciers in Tibet.
> 
> *Glaciers in Tibet melting due to global warming: Researchers*
> CORPORATE  PRESS  RELEASES  (INDIA) news desk
> ...


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## RollingThunder (Nov 2, 2011)

Here some more interesting graphic data from the *World Glacier Monitoring Service* showing the decline of glaciers worldwide.


*Glacier mass balance data -  2008 and 2009
World Glacier Monitoring Service*
(excerpts)

*Table 2: Reference glaciers with continuous long-term observation series.

Mountain range----------Glaciers
Cascade Mtns.-----------Place, South Cascade
Svalbard------------------Austre Broeggerbreen, Midtre Lovénbreen
Andes---------------------Echaurren Norte
Alaska---------------------Gulkana, Wolverine
Scandinavia---------------Engabreen, Alfotbreen, Nigardsbreen, Grasubreen, Storbreen, Hellstugubreen, Hardangerjoekulen, Storglaciaeren
Alps------------------------Saint Sorlin, Sarennes, Silvretta, Gries, Sonnblickkees, Vernagtferner, Kesselwandferner, Hintereisferner, Careser
Altai------------------------No. 125 (Vodopadniy), Maliy Aktru, Leviy Aktru
Caucasus------------------Djankuat
Tien Shan-----------------Ts. Tuyuksuyskiy, Urumqihe S.No.1


The corresponding annual and cumulative mass balance results of this data set from glaciers in the Americas and Eurasia are visualized in the following two figures: 

Figure 1: Mean annual mass balance of reference glaciers. pdf







Figure 2: Mean cumulative mass balance of all reported glaciers (black line) and the reference glaciers (red line). pdf*


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## gslack (Nov 3, 2011)

Spam spam spam!


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## RollingThunder (Nov 3, 2011)

gslack said:


> Spam spam spam!


It is not really necessary to remind everyone that you only post spam, slackjawedidiot, we are all quite aware of that fact after all this time. Too bad you never managed to grow a brain.


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## RollingThunder (Nov 3, 2011)

Here's an interesting and informative pair of photos examining the terminus of the Qori Kalis Glacier in the mountains of southeastern Peru from 1978 to 2004. The retreat is pretty obvious.


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## skookerasbil (Nov 3, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > Spam spam spam!
> ...


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## gslack (Nov 3, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Here's an interesting and informative pair of photos examining the terminus of the Qori Kalis Glacier in the mountains of southeastern Peru from 1978 to 2004. The retreat is pretty obvious.








Look trollingeunich, you are astroturfing, I find that bothers me... It bothers me alot... You post large fonted scripted propaganda riddled with half truths, using bits of science in very misleading and often outright incorrect ways to make claims the actual science does not prove or make... Like those pics you just posted, what time of year and season where they taken? And was either year particularly colder or warmer regionally or globally? What about precipitation? All of those factors play into it yet your pics do not  go into any of it... They show a picture of something that we can't tell anything about...

You do this intentionally and from the looks of yours and a few of your clones/partners posts you are either all the same person, or all posting from the same scripted sources. You think no one has noticed you and your pals crap all looks like a blog page? The same blog page? Thats not a coincidence, and I already know you don't know shit about scripting or HTML.. So that makes it pretty clear....

So in the interest of fairplay I am going to find out whats going on with you and your pals. I don't like people misleading people intentionally, and I especially don't like groups sending web forum trollers out to pretend they are concerned citizens on a cause....So I will get to the bottom of it.. Trust me..


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## Toddsterpatriot (Nov 3, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Here's an interesting and informative pair of photos examining the terminus of the Qori Kalis Glacier in the mountains of southeastern Peru from 1978 to 2004. The retreat is pretty obvious.








This is a picture of evidence of glacier retreat, not too far from where I live.


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## Old Rocks (Nov 3, 2011)

gslack said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > Here's an interesting and informative pair of photos examining the terminus of the Qori Kalis Glacier in the mountains of southeastern Peru from 1978 to 2004. The retreat is pretty obvious.
> ...



LOL. G-vig, you are going to look like a fool once again.

USGS Repeat Photography Project Documents Retreating Glaciers in Glacier National Park | Northern Rocky Mountain Science Center (NOROCK)

Global glacier retreat

http://www.regjeringen.no/upload/UD/Vedlegg/Nordområdene/Dr_Andres_Rivera_red.pdf

From a Glaciers Perspective

Now G-vig, those are links where you can clearly see what happening worldwide with the glaciers. Of course, an idiot like you is going to deny that anything at all is happening. Of course, here on the West Coast, one can go to the mountains and see for themselves how far the glaciers have melted back.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Nov 3, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



That's awful. I'd prefer warmer myself.


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## Old Rocks (Nov 3, 2011)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > Here's an interesting and informative pair of photos examining the terminus of the Qori Kalis Glacier in the mountains of southeastern Peru from 1978 to 2004. The retreat is pretty obvious.
> ...



OK, you show glacial retreat from the Milankovic Cycles that occured 14,000 years ago. Here is glacial retreat from AGW occurring right now. Not that far from where I live.

North Cascade Glacier Retreat

And, by the Milankovic Cycles we should be slowly descending into another ice age over the next 20 thousand years.


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## Old Rocks (Nov 3, 2011)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > gslack said:
> ...



You will get your wish.


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## Old Rocks (Nov 3, 2011)

westwall said:


> Whoops!  Here's another one!  But hey it's only Scientific American, tghey don't know anything!
> 
> 
> Advancing Alaskan Glacier Holds Clues to Global Sea Level Rise
> ...



*LOL. You senile lying dumb fuck. Let's see a bit more of that article;*

The source of the ice - the Yahtse Glacier - is one of five glaciers that empty into Icy Bay beneath the towering Saint Elias Mountains. The Yahtse's rogue advance is one stage in what glaciologists call the "tidewater glacier cycle"  a drama of growth and retreat that unfolds over centuries. 

This process of glacial equilibrium can be sparked by changes in climate but then assume a life of its own. It can lead to runaway glacier retreats seen elsewhere in Alaska and Greenland - big contributors to a rising sea.

But as the Yahtse advances, it is also thinning, underscoring the mystery behind exactly how these glaciers change over time. Recent research has fingered the ocean as a trigger for tidewater glacier retreats. Now Bartholomaus and his team are investigating what happens when this advancing glacier meets the ocean in a region where about 54 glaciers empty into the sea.

By anchoring underwater instruments in front of Yahtse Glacier, they hope to see how it melts beneath the surface. Seismometers measure ice quakes; airborne laser surveys show thinning; global-positioning systems and time-lapse photography reveal movement. Never before have so many tools been used on one glacier for a single project. By blending scientific disciplines, the team will paint a picture of the Yahtse's dynamic forces.


Advancing Alaskan Glacier Holds Clues to Global Sea Level Rise: Scientific American

*You really didn't think that anyone would actually read the article, did you?*


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## Old Rocks (Nov 3, 2011)

gslack said:


> Spam alert!



Got that right, G-vig is posting again. What are you going to accuse someone of doing now? Being telepathically hostile to you?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Nov 3, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



Then we should be pumping more CO2 into the air, to prevent a new ice age.
Warmer is better than colder.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Nov 3, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
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Excellent! Stop the ice age, for the children!


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## westwall (Nov 3, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...







Good!  Warmer is a HELL of a lot better than colder!  The 6th Century Climate Catastrophe brought on the Dark Ages.  The MWP ended them.  Smart people (well at least minimally intelligent people) can figure out that cold sucks and warm is better.

Only fools and cultists think cold is good.


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## westwall (Nov 3, 2011)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
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Yes it is!


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## westwall (Nov 3, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Whoops!  Here's another one!  But hey it's only Scientific American, tghey don't know anything!
> ...







I allways love the cultist reliance on con man language.  "Could" means nothing.  History tells us that all of the predictions made by your high priests can't happen.  Because they didn't happen the first time around.  Something they can't or won't get through their pointy little heads.

But, of course, if they admitted that, their gravy train would end.


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## RollingThunder (Nov 3, 2011)

westwall said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
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> > westwall said:
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And there goes some more brain-dead, reality-free, very moronic posts from the walleyedretard, swirling down the poop tubes into the appropriate place for them. Too bad the walleyedretard remains so thoroughly lost in the denier cult fantasyland. So sad his head is wedged so far up his lying ass that he'll never get it out. Fortunately for the truth of the matter, everything he posts gets debunked immediately. Too bad he can never respond with any kind of intelligent or meaningful reply. But then, what else can you expect from such a brainwashed retarded troll.


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## RollingThunder (Nov 3, 2011)

Here is some more info on the glacial icecap in the Peruvian highlands that is the source of the Qori Kalis Glacier  that I referenced in post #226. More evidence of the effects of global warming.

*Quelccaya Ice Cap*
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*Quelccaya Ice Cap
Type----------Mountain glacier/Icecap
Location------Peru
Area----------44 km² (17 mi²)
Terminus-----Outlet glaciers
Status---------Retreating

The Quelccaya Ice Cap is the largest glaciated area in the tropics. Located in the Cordillera Oriental section of the Andes mountains of Peru, the ice cap is at an average altitude of 5,470 meters (18,600 ft) and spans an area of 44 square kilometers (17 mi²). As with the majority of the Earth's glaciers, the Quelccaya Ice cap has retreated significantly since it was first studied. Since 1978 the icecap has lost approximately 20% of its area,[1] and the rate of retreat is presently increasing.

Comparing pictures taken in 1963 and 1978, an annual retreat rate of 4.7 meters (15.4 ft) was estimated. In the first few years of the 21st century, the annual retreat was measured to be as much as 205 meters (672 ft), more than 40 times as fast.[2] The major outlet glacier from the Quelccaya Ice Cap, the Qori Kalis Glacier, has also retreated significantly since 1963.

Ice core study

Lonnie Thompson and his research team have drilled ice cores from Quelccaya that date back almost 2,000 years and have used them to study changes in atmospheric conditions over this period. In these samples, the oxygen isotope ratio, oxygen-18 to oxygen-16, has risen abruptly in the last 50 years, an indicator of regional warming. As the ice cap is retreating, it is exposing almost perfectly preserved, unfossilized plant specimens that have been dated to 5,200 years before present, indicating that it has been more than 50 centuries since the ice cap was smaller than it is today.[3]

Ice cores taken from Upper Fremont Glacier in the U.S. state of Wyoming show an oxygen isotope profile similar to that of the Quelccaya ice cores at the end of the Little Ice Age, a period of cooler global temperatures between the years 1550 and 1850. The sudden alterations in the oxygen isotope ratio found in ice core samples from these two glaciers, which are at great distance from each other, provide evidence of a sudden global climate change in the mid-latitude regions of the planet at this time.[4]*


***


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## gslack (Nov 3, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> gslack said:
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> > RollingThunder said:
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Yes yes and those tell me what exactly? That a glacier is retreating? Okay and so how many other ones are not retreating? ANd how many are expanding? WHat about the weather that year? 

Dumbass, what do all of those tell me about his pic? Do any of them explain that picture? Or answer any of the questions I asked about the glacier in that particular picture?

Socks why don't you ever learn to actually read a post before you run off at the mouth? Is this some kind functional handicap?


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## gslack (Nov 3, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Here is some more info on the glacial icecap in the Peruvian highlands that is the source of the Qori Kalis Glacier  that I referenced in post #226. More evidence of the effects of global warming.
> 
> *Quelccaya Ice Cap*
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...



And more...


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## Old Rocks (Nov 3, 2011)

Now G-vig, just because you are too dumb to look a the level of the glacier on the surrounding rocks, and note that there is no snow on the surrounding rocks in either picture does not mean that we all are that stupid. Both pictures were obviously taken in the summer.

As far as what I know about glaciers, we have them in abundance in the Cascades. And used to have them in abundance in the Rockies. In my lifetime. I have walked on, and stood at the terminus of glaciers on Rainier, Hood, and many mountains in the North Cascades. And have seen those glaciers constantly melting and receding for the last 40 years.


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## Old Rocks (Nov 3, 2011)

Oh my, G-vig, a big red sign makes you look so smart.


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## Old Rocks (Nov 3, 2011)

Tell me, G-vig, are you a plant, to make all the deniers here look really, really stupid?


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## RollingThunder (Nov 3, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Tell me, G-vig, are you a plant, to make all the deniers here look really, really stupid?



The slackjawedidiot is a particularly odious and pathetically insane troll, nothing more. By comparison, he actually makes some of the other denier cult dingbats look somewhat 'smarter', just by being so very retarded and setting the bar so low. Of course, they all still appear extremely retarded to any normal person.


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## gslack (Nov 3, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Now G-vig, just because you are too dumb to look a the level of the glacier on the surrounding rocks, and note that there is no snow on the surrounding rocks in either picture does not mean that we all are that stupid. Both pictures were obviously taken in the summer.
> 
> As far as what I know about glaciers, we have them in abundance in the Cascades. And used to have them in abundance in the Rockies. In my lifetime. I have walked on, and stood at the terminus of glaciers on Rainier, Hood, and many mountains in the North Cascades. And have seen those glaciers constantly melting and receding for the last 40 years.



SO then you contend no snow means warm? Seriously socks your deductive reasoning leaves a lot to be desired.. With that kind of logic no wonder you sold out...

Oh yea we can surely accept your word on that.. And your level of scientific study regarding climate and glaciers in particular is?

Fraud, you lie to sell windpower so please spare me...


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## gslack (Nov 3, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Tell me, G-vig, are you a plant, to make all the deniers here look really, really stupid?
> ...



uh-huh, and I bust you lying, trolling, posting propaganda, and hot-linking.. Oh and lets not forget affiliate link posting, and astroturfing...

Don't worry pal, I am still looking into your scripted posting... Every time I see you do it you get a new spam pic... You want to post PR garbage, you will deal with it...


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## gslack (Nov 3, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Tell me, G-vig, are you a plant, to make all the deniers here look really, really stupid?



Nope I am a plant to make you look stupid... I have the easiest job in the world..


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## westwall (Nov 3, 2011)

gslack said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Tell me, G-vig, are you a plant, to make all the deniers here look really, really stupid?
> ...







Ahh just ignore the trolls slack.  You would get better banter on a 3rd grade playground.
Well actually my five year old girl would make these clowns look like baboons so better try kindergarten!


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## RollingThunder (Nov 3, 2011)

westwall said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > Nope I am a plant to make you look stupid... I have the easiest job in the world..
> ...


LOLOLOLOL.....says the two clueless morons who couldn't muster half a brain between them both. Your pretensions are soooo pathetic.


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## westwall (Nov 3, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> westwall said:
> 
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> > gslack said:
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Yeah we know.  And yet we never have to resort to grade school name calling to further our arguments.  But thanks for playing junior!


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## Old Rocks (Nov 3, 2011)

Well no, I regularly resort to the USGS, NASA, NOAA, AGU, GSA, and the AIP. As far as the name calling goes, when you speak to a mule, you use language it understands.


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## westwall (Nov 3, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Well no, I regularly resort to the USGS, NASA, NOAA, AGU, GSA, and the AIP. As far as the name calling goes, when you speak to a mule, you use language it understands.







Sure thing shill  Whatever you say!


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## gslack (Nov 3, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Well no, I regularly resort to the USGS, NASA, NOAA, AGU, GSA, and the AIP. As far as the name calling goes, when you speak to a mule, you use language it understands.



No socks you usually resort to greenpeace spin on what the USGS, NASA, NOAA, AGU, GSA, and the AIP says...


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## RollingThunder (Nov 4, 2011)

Here's some interesting photos of some of the ice loss in the European alps. The article looks at some other places too that we can get to later.

*Top seven disappearing glaciers*
By Karl Burkart
Feb 11, 2010
(excerpts)

*7. The Matterhorn




(Photo: c. 1960 & today, Getty Images)

Many often wonder why Europeans get so hot and bothered about climate change. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that they are in direct, daily contact with one very sobering reality  their ice is vanishing.

European glaciers have been some of the hardest hit by climate change. Since the first half of the 19th century, about two-thirds of the ice cover was lost in the Pyrenees with a marked acceleration after 1980 (Chueca et al. 2005 via: UNEP) and in the Alps, home to the world famous Matterhorn, nearly half the glaciers have disappeared since record keeping began.

Often called the "water tower" of Europe, the Alps contain 40 percent of Europe's fresh water supply. The dramatic disappearance of ice on the Matterhorn last year has prompted the need for the border between Switzerland and Italy to be redrawn.*

Copyright © 2011 Yahoo! All rights reserved.

_(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)_


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## skookerasbil (Nov 4, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> Here's some interesting photos of some of the ice loss in the European alps. The article looks at some other places too that we can get to later.
> 
> *Top seven disappearing glaciers*
> By Karl Burkart
> ...





You know......some people would happlily buy a bag of dog poop for $1,000 a pop if you packaged it just right!!! Like this idiot ^^^

Zermatt Switzerland, where the Matterhorn is located, has a warm and cold season. We are talking the Alps here........not the Himylayan Mountains. After April, the Matterhorn sheds much of its snow cover............EVERY YEAR!!!

Here is a travelers link for those visiting Zermatt    Zermatt| Matterhorn| Zermatt Hotels| Zermatt Ski| Swiss Alps



*Ooooooooooooops!!!*



This photo was taken in February 2011....................







link of authenticity.............http://www.panoramio.com/photo/48809293











Indeed.........if you follow this forum over time, what becomes apparent is that the environmental nutters are a breed apart from the rest of us. They get hysterical about stuff at the drop of a hat.........and its not just climate stuff. If you followed these folks around for a week, you'd see that they over-react to most anything in life that most of us take in stride and say "meh". We all know them. We work with them. Some are our neighbors. They provide us with lots of laughs because its what they do. Think about it...........when you see some of these people on here with hundreds of posts per month, you have to ask yourself, "WTF?". Its no accident they end up getting OCD about shit like climate change...........the legions of the hopelessly duped.


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## RollingThunder (Nov 4, 2011)

skookerasbil said:


> You know......some people would happlily buy a bag of dog poop for $1,000 a pop if you packaged it just right!!!


Yeah, I suppose you'd be the one to know about that. How did the poop taste, kooker? Was it worth the money you spent? Since you're still "_buying dog poop_" from the propagandists working for the fossil fuel industry, it seems you didn't learn anything from your experience.







skookerasbil said:


> Zermatt Switzerland, where the Matterhorn is located, has a warm and cold season. We are talking the Alps here........not the Himylayan Mountains. After April, the Matterhorn sheds much of its snow cover............EVERY YEAR!!!
> 
> Here is a travelers link for those visiting Zermatt    Zermatt| Matterhorn| Zermatt Hotels| Zermatt Ski| Swiss Alps
> This photo was taken in February 2011....................
> ttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e305/baldaltima/48809293.jpg


LOLOL....I see you're still way too retarded to actually check out the facts.

*Swiss Approve Measure to Redraw Italian Border Near Matterhorn*
By Jeremy van Loon 
Bloomberg
August 19, 2009
(excerpts)

*The Swiss parliament approved a preliminary measure to redraw its border with Italy near the Matterhorn as melting glaciers caused by warmer temperatures marginally shifted a frontier fixed more than a century ago. A two-nation commission agreed that a new border will be formed by ridges in the border region outside Zermatt as melting snow and ice and drainage are dividing the shifting terrain, the Swiss foreign ministry said today on its Web site.

Switzerland and Italy&#8217;s borders were first set in 1861 when Italy was still a monarchy. Posts marking the frontier are planted at points in the glaciers in Alps, where ice sheets are disappearing amid global warming at some of the fastest rates in the world. Their meltdown is making identifying the dividing line between Italy and Switzerland more difficult. The Alps have suffered more than other regions with half of the region&#8217;s glacial terrain having vanished since the 1850s, according to the World Glacier Monitoring Service in Zurich. Almost 90 percent of Alpine glaciers are now smaller than 1 square kilometer (0.4 square mile).*


*Matterhorn closed to climbers after rockfall* 
July 17, 2003
(excerpts)

*The Matterhorn has been closed to climbers following a huge rock fall, which forced the evacuation of 90 people. The slide is being blamed on the ongoing heatwave, which also caused huge chunks to break off a glacier. Climate specialists said the high temperatures of the past few weeks had probably caused a melting of the permafrost that binds the rocks together, triggering the slide. According to environmental historians, last month was the hottest June in 250 years &#8211; six to seven degrees above average. And temperatures have remained high into July.

The heat is also being blamed for causing massive chunks of ice to break away from a glacier above the resort of Grindelwald on Tuesday. The ice fell into a river, causing a two-metre high swell of water to barrel down the mountain.

Wilfried Haeberli, a glaciologist at Zurich University, explained that last winter&#8217;s snow had disappeared so fast that the permafrost and glaciers were now being melted. &#8220;The Matterhorn relies on permafrost to stay together, just like the north face of the Eiger of the Jungfraujoch,&#8221; said Haeberli. The ice specialist says the heat is akin to leaving a fridge door open. &#8220;Water starts to flow, and large chunks of rock begin to break away from the mountain,&#8221; he added.*

_(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)_


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## gslack (Nov 4, 2011)

So freaking what? It doesn't save your last BS claim does it...

The point remains its often times melting and refreezing, with and with out snow... Again, you post bullshit and then bullshit to deflect it...


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## RollingThunder (Nov 4, 2011)

gslack said:


> So freaking what? It doesn't save your last BS claim does it...
> 
> The point remains its often times melting and refreezing, with and with out snow... Again, you post bullshit and then bullshit to deflect it...




LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL......oh, you poor pathetic retard, your brain has melted down with the ice.


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## westwall (Nov 4, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> > So freaking what? It doesn't save your last BS claim does it...
> ...






What was that silly person?  These are climbing guides i have used in the past and they are quite good.  Note how they specifiy 2003 as a great climbing year because of the record heat that year.  As per usual however, climbing on the matterhorn is allways a tricky thing.



"Snow is indeed a problem. In general, on the Matterhorn, the best and safest conditions are when the route is reasonably free of snow up to the Shoulder. Because the peak is so tall, even in mid-summer it can receive lots of new snow. And we have to wait for this to melt in order for it to come into condition. 

Fortunately, in the middle of summer, the sun on the east face is quite warm, and if the weather is good vast amounts of snow can melt quite quickly. But it needs warm sunshine, and relatively little wind to reach these high snow-melting temperatures. 

Typically, the first really warm days arrive sometime in June. But it takes some time for these early season days to clear all the winter and spring snow from the climb. In an exceptionally warm year, the peak can come into reasonable climbing condition in the latter part of June. But with a more normal season, it is not until mid-July that the route is more predictably in shape. 

The end of the season usually comes in early September. Though there can still be quite nice weather in September, the sun is lower is the sky and has lost much of its snow melting power. If a late summer storm put down new snow on the peak, in the first few days of September, for example, there is a good chance that the peak will not come back into condition that year. But if the weather stays dry, the peak can remain in good climbing condition until the first of the fall season snows finally arrive.

There are also the inevitable mid-summer storms. Typically there are 2 or 3 of these each year in the months of July and August. They put down enough new snow to cause a break in the season - several days where the peak is not in reasonable condition. All we can do is wait for the sun to return and do its snow-melting job. 3 or 4 days of sun is typically needed, though this of course depends on how much snow fell, and how intense the sunshine might be.

From year to year we have seen tremendous variation in the number of days each summer when the Matterhorn has been in good condition. 2008 was a notoriously bad year, while in 2003, with its record heat wave, the climbing season on the Matterhorn started very early in June. Because conditions can go from bad to great in as few as 4 or 5 days, it is virtually impossible to predict conditions on any particular day. Typically the best season seems to be mid-July to early September. Remember, however, that there is great variability, and every year is different." 





Matterhorn Alpine Climbing, Swiss Alps


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## RollingThunder (Nov 4, 2011)

westwall said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > gslack said:
> ...



And anther poor, confused, extremely deluded retard pops up.

Tell us walleyed, just what does your "_climbing guide_" info have to do the melting of the Alpine glaciers or the loss of 'permanent' ice from the Matterhorn? Or are you just too retarded to comprehend the difference between a '_good year for climbing_' and "*the heat is also being blamed for causing massive chunks of ice to break away from a glacier*" and "*last winter&#8217;s snow had disappeared so fast that the permafrost and glaciers were now being melted*"?

Do you think it was a good year for skiing?





_Putting a glacier under wraps at 2,900m (Keystone)_

*Glacier keeps its cool under high-tech blanket*
(excerpts)

*The Andermatt ski-lift company has laid a synthetic carpet over 2,500 square metres of glacier in a unique experiment to ward off the effects of global warming. The reflective high-tech material is designed to stop the Gurschen glacier from melting away beneath the resort&#8217;s upper cable-car station. The glacier has dropped 20 metres over the past 15 years, forcing the lift company to construct a snow ramp on top of it to give skiers access to the runs.

Resembling giant strips of toilet paper, the polyester and polypropylene material was rolled out across the ramp to stop it melting during the summer. If it proves successful, many other ski resorts in the Alps which also depend on rapidly shrinking glaciers, including Zermatt, Saas Fee and Engelberg, could follow Andermatt's example. According to the Swiss Academy of Sciences, 75 of the 90 glaciers measured in the Swiss Alps over the past two years receded.*


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## gslack (Nov 4, 2011)

So trolling ed the blunder, what activist group are you posting for?


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## westwall (Nov 4, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...







Really?  An article from 2005?  That's the best you can do?


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## skookerasbil (Nov 4, 2011)

Hey Thunder..............news flash.........this just in....................

THE MATTERHORN MELTED LAST NIGHT!!!!


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## RollingThunder (Nov 5, 2011)

Here's some excerpts from another article, apparently written by a MSNBC staff committee with at least one member who unfortunately is not completely informed on current climate science, but overall it's fairly accurate and it features some good pictures of one of the retreating Swiss alpine glaciers. The actual reports from the Swiss scientists contained in the article are self explanatory.

*Swiss glaciers continue shrinking, report finds
84 of 91 tracked by scientists retreated in 2005 
MSNBC*
msnbc.com staff and news service reports
2/10/2006
(excerpts)

*ZURICH, Switzerland &#8212; Swiss scientists keeping track of dozens of glaciers have delivered more bad news: Warmer and drier weather tied to climate change continues to melt Switzerland's treasured natural gems. Of the 91 glaciers being tracked, 84 had retreated in 2005 compared to a year earlier, according to a study by the Swiss Academy of Sciences. The other seven did not change. The report, released Wednesday, follows earlier ones documenting a long-term melt, posing a threat to Switzerland&#8217;s thriving winter sports industry. One ski resort has even wrapped part of its shrinking ice-cap in a giant blanket to try to reduce the summer melt. Scientists in other parts of the world with glaciers have identified a global pattern. While some glaciers are growing, many more are in retreat.

The Trift glacier in central Switzerland saw the biggest change last year, retreating by more than 600 feet.* 




_Switzerland&#8217;s Trift glacier retreated by more than 600 feet between 
2004, left, and 2005. (Swiss Academy of Sciences)_

*Not only did glaciers lose length, their volume also diminished. The height of three glaciers closely studied in the survey had shrunk by between 27.5 inches and 5.6 feet, predominantly through lower than average snowfall during the 2004-2005 winter season. The 91 glaciers being tracked are the largest of 1,800 glaciers in Switzerland.
*
© 2011 msnbc.com

_(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)_


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## Old Rocks (Nov 5, 2011)

*NASA*

Sizing Up the Earth's Glaciers (DAAC Study) : Feature Articles

June 22, 2004

Title graphic image: South Cascade Glacier in the Washington Cascade Mountains, in 1928, 1979, and 2000 (Images courtesy of the National Snow and Ice Data Center)


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## Old Rocks (Nov 5, 2011)

westwall said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



*What a dumb fuck you continue to be, Walleyes. *

Alps Glacier Watch for Summer 2011, snowHeads ski forum

Reflecting on rapidly changing glaciers in the Alps | Into the Mountains

It didnt stop us from having an amazing climb up perfect granite to the summit of the Aiguille Sans Nom, followed by some ridge climbing down the easterly ridge of the Aiguilles Dorées (Golden Needles) and some rappels back to the Trient glacier. We had an amazing week with great weather and I was in great company with Michele. Yet, I cant brush off the images of the once-huge glacier that I knew and wonder how much longer it will be around for us to see and marvel at. We used to look at pictures from the 1920s to see how much glaciers had shrunk. But now you just need five years time to no longer recognize a location you thought you knew. I dont have a solution, of course, but this was a reality check I thought I should share.

Zeeburg Nieuws / Climate Change / Mountain glaciers are melting

Vienna, October 10 2011 - Austrian glaciers are loosing continouesly mass: each summer the melt is larger than the amount of snow added during wintertime. Although the summer of 2011 was on average not very hot, are the mass losses however comparable with those in the hottest sommer on record for Austria and the Alpian region: 2003.

*The glaciers of the Alps continue to melt. And retards like Walleyes continue to shill for the big energy companies that would extract the last bit of profit before plunging us all into catastrophe.*


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## skookerasbil (Nov 5, 2011)




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## skookerasbil (Nov 5, 2011)

LMAO....................

Here is a photo of the Matterhorn taken this SUMMER!!!! ( Ive included the link from the visitors tour with photo's)






Photos of a backpacker: Interrail Europe - Summer 2011 - Zermatt


What the environmental nutters try to do all over the internet is put out a PR Dog and Pony Show. On this thread, they post up some bogus photos of the Matterhorn leading people to believe the mountain is sweating it's ass off!!! They do this shit all the time........with polar bears, glaciers, icebergs...............canned photo's to try to do what they are intended to do: alarm the shit out of the viewer. Alot of people see shit like this and take it at face value because thats what a lot of people do. Very impressionable............

Again however, note that the above photo was taken in the summer of THIS YEAR in Zermatt Switzerland. And if you back up a few posts in this thread, you see a photo of the Matterhorn in wintertime.

Clearly...........a totally white Matterhorn indicates the mountain is burning up!!!


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## skookerasbil (Nov 5, 2011)




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## skookerasbil (Nov 5, 2011)




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## RollingThunder (Nov 5, 2011)

As usual, the anti-science denier cultists live in a two-valued, black and white world where it is either all one way or all the opposite way. LOL. In their oversimplified and rather moronic world, if the Matterhorn still has any snow on it at all and it is not totally bare, then everything is fine and there is no problem. In the real world the changes can be more complex and less obvious. 

*Global warning strikes the Matterhorn*
July 26, 2006
PhysOrg.com
(excerpts)

*Global warming is reportedly having a dramatic effect on the Matterhorn in the European Alps, with landslides and flaking becoming more numerous. The landslides are being caused by retreating ice cover, with zero temperatures now found only above approximately 13,000 feet (4,000 meters), global warming expert Michele Comi told the Italian news agency ANSA. "This means that all the rock fractures generally held together by the ice, which acts as a glue, give way because the ice melts, leading to a situation of instability" said Comi. "Geologically speaking, the process is normal. What isn't normal is the acceleration of these phenomena. "The classic ice-and-snow-climbing routes aren't accessible in July any more. That is a huge anomaly," Comi added.

Stefano Mayr of Mountain Wilderness Italia said the effects of global warming are obvious. "All you have to do is take a climbing guide from 15 years ago," Mayr told ANSA. "A spot that is described in the book as a snow-covered ridge is now gravel."*

Copyright 2006 by United Press International 

(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)


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## gslack (Nov 5, 2011)

SPAM! SPAM! SPAM!


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## westwall (Nov 5, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> westwall said:
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Nope, you can't use an activist blog MENSA boy.  Only peer reviewed studies are allowed as per your requirements.


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## westwall (Nov 5, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> As usual, the anti-science denier cultists live in a two-valued, black and white world where it is either all one way or all the opposite way. LOL. In their oversimplified and rather moronic world, if the Matterhorn still has any snow on it at all and it is not totally bare, then everything is fine and there is no problem. In the real world the changes can be more complex and less obvious.
> 
> *Global warning strikes the Matterhorn*
> July 26, 2006
> ...







What was that spambot?  Did you say something?  I see a story from 2006.  We have a photo taken a few days ago.  Guess what the real people without a political/religious agenda are going to pay attention to?  Yep, they're going to look at the photo and say "those alarmists are fruits, best to ignore them..."  Which they are doing in RECORD numbers!

And for that, we thank you (credit to Daniel Tosh)!


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## Old Rocks (Nov 5, 2011)

Well, Ol' Walleyes, you asked for recent observations of the Alps. Both are current observations of conditions there from people that use that area.

The discovery of the ruins of ice: The birth of glacier research | Guest Blog, Scientific American Blog Network

These records showed various fluctuations, but from 1850 onward a general trend of recession of glaciers in the Alps is observable. This trend has experienced a strong increase in the last 50 years, causing concern for the fast change in the landscape, the destabilisation of the rock walls once supported by the melting glaciers and the alteration of the discharge and hydrology of mountain ranges, not to mention the lost of aesthetic value of the &#8220;ruins of ice.&#8221;


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## Old Rocks (Nov 5, 2011)

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20030025392_2003026276.pdf

ABSTRACT
The tongue of the Pasterze Glacier in the eastern Alps of Austria receded more than 1 152
m from 1880 to 200 1. Landsat and Ikonos satellite data from 1976 to 200 1, topographic
maps beginning in 1893 and ground measurements were studied. Results show that
though satellite images significantly underestimate the width of the Pasterze Glacier
tongue due to the presence of morainal material on the surface, they provide an excellent
way to measure the recession of the exposed-ice part of the glacier tongue. The rate of
change of the terminus as determined using satellite data is found to compare well with
ground measurements. Between 1976 and 200 1, Landsat-derived measurements show a
recession of the terminus of the Pasterze Glacier of 479 +113 rn (at an average rate of
18.4 m a-') while measurements from the ground showed a recession of 428 m (at an
average recession of 17.1 m a-I). Ikonos satellite images from 2000 and 200 1 reveal
changes in the exposed ice part of the Pasterze tongue, and a decrease in area of the
exposed ice part of the tongue of 22,096 m2. GPS points and a ground survey of the
glacier terminus in August 200 1 were plotted on a 1 -m resolution Ikonos image, and
showed the actual terminus shape and location. The nearby Kleines FleiDkees glacier lost


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## Old Rocks (Nov 5, 2011)

Weissee Glacier - Earth Science Picture of the Day

Provided and copyright by: Martin Dietzel 
Summary authors & editors: Martin Dietzel

The photo above shows the receding Weissee Glacier in the Austrian Alps. The recession of this glacier as well as many others in the Alps, a result primarily of regional warming, has becomes clearly visible in the past decade or so. Standing in front of the glacier, one can easily detect how much of this glacier has already vanished. Crevasses several meters wide have recently opened up in the ablation zone of the Weissee. Parts of the remaining glacier are regularly skied upon, marring the remnants of this once impressive ice mass. Glaciologists have estimated that since the middle of the 19th century, approximately half the volume of Europe's alpine glaciers has disappeared.


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## RollingThunder (Nov 5, 2011)

westwall said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > As usual, the anti-science denier cultists live in a two-valued, black and white world where it is either all one way or all the opposite way. LOL. In their oversimplified and rather moronic world, if the Matterhorn still has any snow on it at all and it is not totally bare, then everything is fine and there is no problem. In the real world the changes can be more complex and less obvious.
> ...



If you mean "_the real people_" without any brains, like you and your fellow denier cult retards, then they'll probably be so simple-minded that they will, as I just mentioned, believe that a photo showing a light dusting of snow negates all of the evidence of ice and snow cover loss and the testimony of the experts and local residents. Are you guys actually proud of being such dumbshits?


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## gslack (Nov 5, 2011)

SPAM!


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## westwall (Nov 5, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


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As I said junior, we thank you


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## westwall (Nov 5, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Well, Ol' Walleyes, you asked for recent observations of the Alps. Both are current observations of conditions there from people that use that area.
> 
> The discovery of the ruins of ice: The birth of glacier research | Guest Blog, Scientific American Blog Network
> 
> These records showed various fluctuations, but from 1850 onward a general trend of recession of glaciers in the Alps is observable. This trend has experienced a strong increase in the last 50 years, causing concern for the fast change in the landscape, the destabilisation of the rock walls once supported by the melting glaciers and the alteration of the discharge and hydrology of mountain ranges, not to mention the lost of aesthetic value of the &#8220;ruins of ice.&#8221;







Overall good article, bet you missed the pertinent part though...didn't ya?  I also liked this little excerpt.



"In 1815 the Swiss Jean Pierre Perraudin, a chamois hunter in the Val de Bagnes, discussed with the engineer Ignatz Venetz his theory of former glaciers covering the entire valley. Impressed by such an idea Venetz begun to map geological features that made him recognize that not only the Val de Bagnes was once covered by ice, but even the entire Switzerland. Vernetz´s lecture at the assembly of the Swiss Association for Natural History in 1829 found little interest for his proposal: only Jean de Charpentier, director of the salt mine in the city of Bex (Western Switzerland), who 14 years earlier had meet Perraudin, got interested in this new theory."


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## westwall (Nov 5, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20030025392_2003026276.pdf
> 
> ABSTRACT
> The tongue of the Pasterze Glacier in the eastern Alps of Austria receded more than 1 152
> ...







Here's another take on it covering just one glacier, but it is representative of the whole.  Please note the cyclic advance and retreat.  Please also note the time frames in which they occur.

"INTRODUCTION
There has been a general recession of glaciers in the European Alps since the Little Ice Age
ended around 1850, though the recession has been interrupted a few times by brief advances. The
glaciers are receding in response to a regional climate warming.
The Pasterze Glacier is in the Hohe Tauern, a mountain range in the eastern Alps of Austria
where the Johannisberg (3463 m) and Grossglockner (3798 m) mountains are located. The
Grossglockner is the highest peak in Austria from which some tributary glaciers flowing into the
Pasterze. In this paper, we discuss historical ice-front positions of the Pasterze, show satellite
images, and provide measurements of ice-front position changes from ground and satellite data.
BACKGROUND
A major advance of glaciers in the Austrian Alps occurred around 1600. The glaciers remained in
an advanced position, with only small variations for the next 250 years. Most glaciers in the eastern
part of the Alps reached another maximum in the 1770s, and again around 1850. Since then, at the
approximate end of the Little Ice Age, glaciers receded until about 1965, although there were small
readvances between 1890 and 1920. Most of the glaciers stopped advancing in the mid-1980s due to
warm summers and reduced snowfall. In 1988, about 80 percent of the Austrian glaciers were in
1 Code 974, NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Maryland 20771, USA
dhall@glacier.gsfc.nasa.gov
2 Department of Geography, Keene State College, Keene, New Hampshire 03435-2001USA
3 Code 971, NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, MD 20771, USA
4 Klimaabteilung , Zentralanstalt für Meteorologie und Geodynamik - ZAMG (Central Institute of
Meteorology and Geodynamics - ZAMG), A-1190 Wien, Hohe Warte 38 (A-1190 Vienna, Hohe Warte
38), Austria
recession (Rott, 1993). Böhm (1986) and Bayr et al. (1994) show that there was a general increase
in average (May through September) temperature and a concurrent decrease in the number of days
between May and September with snowfall since 1886.
There are 925 glaciers with a total area of 542 km2 in the Austrian Alps, only five of which are
larger than 10 km2; the majority is smaller than 1 km2. The Pasterze Glacier is the largest with an
area of 19.8 km2, and a length of 9.2 km in 1969 (Rott, 1993). Between 1979 and 1989, the mean
equilibrium-line altitude (ELA) of the glacier was 2880 m a.s.l. (Zuo and Oerlemans, 1997).
The terminus of the Pasterze Glacier has retreated each year since the winter of heavy snow in
1965-66, the total cumulative recession as measured on the ground being 408 m (Österreichischer
Alpenverein, 1999-2000). Previous work showed that between 1984 and 1990, the terminus of the
glacier receded at an average speed of 15 m year 1 according to measurements made using Landsat
multispectral scanner (MSS) and thematic mapper (TM) data, for a total recession of 90 m. Ground
measurements showed a total recession of 102-m over that same six-year period (Hall et al., 1992;
Bayr et al., 1994).
Zuo and Oerlemans (1997) used a one-dimensional ice-flow model to conduct a sensitivity
experiment on the Pasterze Glacier and to simulate the ice-front variation. Their results show that
the glacier has been in a non-steady state from about 1826 to the present, and has a volume response
time of 34-50 years. They also projected the behavior of the Pasterze Glacier over the next 100 years
under various climate scenarios. According to their model, by the year 2100, the total recession
could range from 3 to 5 km, with a total loss of ice volume of 40-63%, if the rate of regional climate
warming continues to increase. However, if the future climate remains the same as the mean
condition over the last 30 years, the recession of the glacier will be much less."


http://www.easternsnow.org/proceedings/2001/Hall_1.pdf


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## Old Rocks (Nov 6, 2011)

westwall said:


> Old Rocks said:
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> ...



Since we are continuing to put GHGs into the atmosphere at an ever increasing rate, the conclusion in red will probably happen far sooner than the author estimates.


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## westwall (Nov 6, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


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Since we have been putting orders of magnitude MORE GHG's into the atmosphere then even Hansen predicted in his worst fever ridden panic attack, and there has been NO measurable increase in global temps for the last 12 years, I think it's a safe assumption that they have no effect.

But that would be cause and effect, and *that* is science


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## RollingThunder (Nov 6, 2011)

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It is hilarious that you chose to quote something about the glaciers that doesn't support your specious 'point' but rather does just the opposite. You are such a silly clueless retard.

And of course it is always amusing, walleyed, to hear you prattle about science when you have so often demonstrated quite conclusively that you know nothing about it. Worse than nothing actually since you are so filled with this moronic denier cult misinformation and pseudo-science that 'just ain't so'. Your deranged post here is a good example. All of the world's science agencies who are tracking this are saying that there was indeed a very measurable increase in global temperatures over the last decade (or 12 years if you want). It is only you deluded denier cult fruitcakes who, predictably, deny this observed and measured reality. 

*NASA Research Finds Last Decade was Warmest on Record, 2009 One of Warmest Years*
Jan. 21, 2010
*A new analysis of global surface temperatures by NASA scientists finds the past year was tied for the second warmest since 1880. In the Southern Hemisphere, 2009 was the warmest year on record. 

In the past three decades, the GISS surface temperature record shows an upward trend of about 0.36 degrees F (0.2 degrees C) per decade. In total, average global temperatures have increased by about 1.5 degrees F (0.8 degrees C) since 1880.* 

So the average upward temperature trend per decade since 1880 is about 0.11° F and that rate has increased in the last three decades to about a 0.36° F increase per decade. Does that tell you anything, walleyed? It sure does to people with normal intelligence. 


*On the temperature graph below, notice that every year since 1998 was warmer than any of the years before that except for 2000, which was just slightly cooler than 1997 and 1995 but still the 15th hottest year on record.*






*While 2010 temperatures makes for headlines, the study of the climate is necessarily focused on multi-decadal trends. A single year can be strongly affected by factors like El Niño events, volcanoes, or other sources of natural variability. Over the course of decades, these factors tend to even out and the underlying trend is evident. As shown in the figure above, Earth has been warming since reliable global temperature records were first available around 1880*

source: *Yale Climate Forum*


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## westwall (Nov 6, 2011)

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What was that troll?  As usual the point being made soared way over your head.  Not too surprising.  Per the faithful you take a single item that supports your particular religious faith and ignore all else that was said.  Someday you might figure it out but I doubt it.  The rest of the world has moved on from the AGW dogma.

It is you, and flat earthers like you, that attempt to carry on the faith.  Let me know if you meet any worshipers of Ba'al while you're at it.


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## RollingThunder (Nov 6, 2011)

westwall said:


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Just the usual non response cloaked in gibberish and irrelevancy that we get from the walleyedretard whenever his denier cult myths get debunked. Which would be every time he posts them since they are all a load of horsecrap. LOLOLOLOL.


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## Old Rocks (Nov 6, 2011)

Ol' Walleyes just cannot keep from repeating 'talking point' lies. It has been cooling since 1998? What the hell are you smoking? 

Here is a graph from Dr. Spencer. Note that there are only two very short periods in the last 12 years that were cooler than the highest points prior to 1998 in Dr. Spencer's 13 month running average. Not only that, 2010 tied with 1998. 

UAH Global Temperature Update for October 2011: +0.11 deg. C « Roy Spencer, Ph. D.

Of the 144 months in the last 12 years, about 100 have been warmer than the highs prior to 1998. One has to be purposely blind not to see that the last 12 years have not been cooling, but continuing the rapid warming.

And the glaciers, ice caps, and permafrost just keeps right on melting, in spite of Ol' Walleyes yapping.


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## westwall (Nov 6, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Ol' Walleyes just cannot keep from repeating 'talking point' lies. It has been cooling since 1998? What the hell are you smoking?
> 
> Here is a graph from Dr. Spencer. Note that there are only two very short periods in the last 12 years that were cooler than the highest points prior to 1998 in Dr. Spencer's 13 month running average. Not only that, 2010 tied with 1998.
> 
> ...






I never said cooling.  I said global temps had levelled off.  Nice try at prevarication there olfraud but as usual it is you caught in the lie.  Are you even _capable_ of telling the truth are are you pathological?


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## RollingThunder (Nov 6, 2011)

westwall said:


> Old Rocks said:
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> > Ol' Walleyes just cannot keep from repeating 'talking point' lies. It has been cooling since 1998? What the hell are you smoking?
> ...



What you said, walleyedretard, is this: "_there has been NO measurable increase in global temps for the last 12 years_" and that is one of your phony denier cult myths. NASA and others science groups have indeed measured the temperature increase over the last "_12 years_" and there has been about a 0.36° F increase over that time. 

These figures are from *NASA data* of *combined land-surface air and sea-surface water temperature anomalies*

*Temp. anomaly from 1951&#8211;1980 mean

1980&#8211;1989---------------------+ 0.176 °C (0.317 °F)
1990&#8211;1999---------------------+ 0.313 °C (0.563 °F)
2000&#8211;2009---------------------+ 0.513 °C (0.923 °F)
*

I guess you brainwashed, delusional, ideologically blinded denier cult retards will never understand it, no matter how much evidence you're shown.


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## gslack (Nov 7, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


> westwall said:
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Aplogize to Si... You got away without apologizing to me when you made your little remark about my mother, this time you shouldn't.. You should be banned...


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## RollingThunder (Nov 7, 2011)

From yet another part of the world, here are a couple of good photos of a glacier in Alaska taken 63 years apart.





_(Photo: Muir Glacier, 1941)_




_(Photo: Muir Glacier, 2004)_

*The astonishing recession of the massive Muir glacier is just one example among dozens, causing many scientists to warn of earthquakes triggered by tectonic plates with suddenly lightened loads.*

excerpts from *Top seven disappearing glaciers
*


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## gslack (Nov 7, 2011)

TRollingblunder useless POS posting blog style again...


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## skookerasbil (Nov 7, 2011)

Ummmm...........the curious will note that the alarmists keep posting up the same photo's and links over..............and over..............and over..................and over.............on this thread. Its called distraction and it is the way of the far left.

Just take a gandor back in this thread and check out the photo's/links of the Mattherhorn and you realize this alarmist stuff is all a ruse.


Hey gslack............you think Rolling Thunder and Shaman are one in the same with the flowery posts?


gay


Geez.............you talk about cool-aid drinkers. These meatheads really think earthquakes and climate change are related. Pass the Effexor XR.


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## westwall (Nov 7, 2011)

RollingThunder said:


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Ummm yeah, I think I will take anything they post with a huge grain of salt.  They can't seem to take very accurate measurments in some pretty benign areas.  They have recorded Longmont CO as having measured temps of *-60C!*

I don't think Longmont has EVER had that cold a day since man has walked the planet.  Maybe a few million years ago, but not within the last 200,000 years for sure.  And yet there it is.  Several times over.  You can put your faith in fantasy readings like that.   Or the 600 degree temp they recorded in the Arctic a few times, but I'll stick with reality.

It's what scientists do best.  Well, non politically motivated fraud scientists that is.


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