# America, The Stupid



## midcan5 (Jun 2, 2012)

On USMB the other day a fake commencement address by a right wing talking head is praised as the best ever. Since I know many teachers, and the work they do, and the difficulties they face in a society in which only money and sports are worshipped, I took umbrage with such nonsense. 

My solution to the buffoon's 'libelous'* speech - I am not sure what word to use when someone who earns their living talking shit all day criticizes people who actually contribute to society - was the old fashioned one, a good punch in the mouth followed by a toss off the stage. How else could you rationally debate a total jackass. 

I was raised in a world in which the teacher was in charge in the classroom and the student listened. Today in America every moron, with equally moronic parents, is not only right, but the teachers wrong. And then when asked why our students do so poorly, the teachers are blamed. Imagine if little Joanie studied instead of texting and kicking a ball all evening? 

America is becoming stupid because the ideas of fools are taken serious, consider Fox as an example, its listeners know nothing about the world, or consider Rush Limbaugh's nonsense, then there is Coulter, Savage, Beck, Hannity, et al, can anyone think of dumber media personalities? Lots out there. Big money fools support the stupid because the stupid say and write and print what the big money fools want them to say. Consider the revisionist stupidity from Jonah Goldberg? Seriously, are these fools the best the conservatives can bring to the table today?

Liberals today need to call a spade a spade, stupidity is sponsored by the wealthy stupid, and the greedy stupid, and the ideological stupid, stupidity has gone on too long. Every fool gets a Koch, Simmons, Perry, Murdoch et al soapbox when the fool argues against the American values that made this country great, so it time we too call stupid stupid. Unapologetic, I have to say anyone who praises Neal Boortz's fake commencement address is kinda stupid, nah, let's be honest, really stupid. 

"Quite possibly, this belief in our own opinion, regardless of the facts, may be what separates us from the nations of the world, what makes us unique in God&#8217;s eyes. The average German or Czech, though possibly no less ignorant than his American counterpart, will probably consider the possibility that someone who has spent his life studying something may have an opinion worth considering. Not the American. Although perfectly willing to recognize expertise in basketball, for example, or refrigerator repair, when it comes to the realm of ideas, all folks (and their opinions) are suddenly equal. Thus evolution is a damned lie, global warming a liberal hoax, and Republicans care about people like you."  Mark Slouka

* When a right wing talking head condemns a whole group as incompetent, he not makes himself the fool, but his criticism paints a false portrait of a noble profession. Stupid speech is stupid speech and should be labeled stupid.


----------



## Douger (Jun 2, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVz4VweMqFE]Stupid Americans.. - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 2, 2012)

> America is becoming stupid because the ideas of fools are taken serious, consider Fox as an example, its listeners know nothing about the world, or consider Rush Limbaugh's nonsense, then there is Coulter, Savage, Beck, Hannity, et al, can anyone think of dumber media personalities? Lots out there. Big money fools support the stupid because the stupid say and write and print what the big money fools want them to say. Consider the revisionist stupidity from Jonah Goldberg? Seriously, are these fools the best the conservatives can bring to the table today?


Yes. 

That stupidity and ignorance is consistent with conservative dogma; to introduce facts and the truth into the issue only undermines that dogma. 



> Liberals today need to call a spade a spade, stupidity is sponsored by the wealthy stupid, and the greedy stupid, and the ideological stupid, stupidity has gone on too long. Every fool gets a Koch, Simmons, Perry, Murdoch et al soapbox when the fool argues against the American values that made this country great, so it time we too call stupid stupid. Unapologetic, I have to say anyone who praises Neal Boortz's fake commencement address is kinda stupid, nah, let's be honest, really stupid.



Liberals, however, need to take care to fight back with documented evidence and facts. This is very difficult to do, of course, as the facts often follow the lies conservatives spew, particularly with regard to the conservative tactic of aggressively repeating lies over and over again in the hope they be perceived as the truth.


----------



## editec (Jun 2, 2012)

midcan5 said:


> On USMB the other day a fake commencement address by a right wing talking head is praised as the best ever. Since I know many teachers, and the work they do, and the difficulties they face in a society in which only money and sports are worshipped, I took umbrage with such nonsense.
> 
> My solution to the buffoon's 'libelous'* speech - I am not sure what word to use when someone who earns their living talking shit all day criticizes people who actually contribute to society - was the old fashioned one, a good punch in the mouth followed by a toss off the stage. How else could you rationally debate a total jackass.
> 
> ...


 
American is going through still another of its know-nothing phases.

These periods are marked by revived religious evangelism and anti-intellectualism.


----------



## Mad Scientist (Jun 2, 2012)

Who is it that controls Public Education? It aint the Religious types. Cause if that were true, then Public School kids would be winning those Scripps Spelling Bees.

When WAS the last time that happened?


----------



## starcraftzzz (Jun 2, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> Who is it that controls Public Education? It aint the Religious types. Cause if that were true, then Public School kids would be winning those Scripps Spelling Bees.
> 
> When WAS the last time that happened?



Have you ever heard of Texas or Tennesse?


----------



## 007 (Jun 2, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> Who is it that controls Public Education?



DEMOCRATS and TEACHERS UNIONS.

So the OP is shooting himself in the foot, aside from half his diatribe being lies.


----------



## Mad Scientist (Jun 2, 2012)

Pale Rider said:


> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> > Who is it that controls Public Education?
> ...


Oh I don't disagree that Americans are stupid. Our jobs are being shipped overseas, the dollar is crashing, the economy sucks.

But what do people care about? "Dancing with the Stars".

I don't know if it can be turned around.


----------



## whitehall (Jun 2, 2012)

Will the freaking left ever stop whining about Fox? Listen to taxpayer funded PBS or CBS who tried to use forged documents to influence a presidential election if you want to hear biased reporting.


----------



## Douger (Jun 2, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> Who is it that controls Public Education? It aint the Religious types. Cause if that were true, then Public School kids would be winning those Scripps Spelling Bees.
> 
> When WAS the last time that happened?


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQdhMSEqhfg]Uhhh...what did she just say?? Miss Teen South Carolina 2007 - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## midcan5 (Jun 4, 2012)

The spirit of my mom is saying be nice, James.  

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxCaOzmV0LE]Best Advice From Johnny Depp - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Leweman (Jun 4, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyvqhdllXgU]Harlem voters - YouTube[/ame]


you got that right.


----------



## 007 (Jun 4, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Mad Scientist said:
> ...



And I agree, Americans are stupid. They bought obama's pack of lies and even knowing full well he was nothing more than a little boy raised by radicals and had zero experience, enough of them voted for the fucker anyway. Yes, that was incredibly stupid. America is slipping academically, and it's because LIBERALS have almost TOTAL CONTROL over the education system. They have NO ONE to blame but themselves for the dumbing down of America.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jun 4, 2012)

"If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library."  -- Frank Zappa

Too bad we don't have a Federal Department of education...too bad...that could really help, right?


----------



## Katzndogz (Jun 4, 2012)

Americans want to be stupid.  To be stupid is to be equal.  As long as someone is smart, they no longer share equality with the stupid.  Therefore everyone must be equally stupid.


----------



## midcan5 (Jun 5, 2012)

If a right wing conservative republican libertarian were to seriously consider an President Obama vote stupid considering the improvement in jobs and the market under President Obama, *what adjective would they use for themselves given the record of Bush II or for that matter almost any republican? Or even the do nothing republican congress? *Retard? Dipshit? Moron? Any more ideas, for surely they would all fit the wingnut conservative republican libertarian as would of course stupid. 

See my sig links for more reason to call someone stupid.


----------



## DGS49 (Jun 5, 2012)

What a sad, pathetic little person.  Calls others "stupid" but can't seem to come up with a single example of someone saying or doing something that proves the point.

Someone in this discussion is definitely stupid.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jun 5, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgfA2b9YSag]Stupid Obama Voters - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jun 5, 2012)

midcan5 said:


> If a right wing conservative republican libertarian were to seriously consider an President Obama vote stupid considering the improvement in jobs and the market under President Obama, *what adjective would they use for themselves given the record of Bush II or for that matter almost any republican? Or even the do nothing republican congress? *Retard? Dipshit? Moron? Any more ideas, for surely they would all fit the wingnut conservative republican libertarian as would of course stupid.
> 
> See my sig links for more reason to call someone stupid.



I can't imagine how desperate for attention you and FrancoWTF must be to keep calling attention to your sig lines


----------



## blimpo (Jun 5, 2012)

Pale Rider said:


> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> > Who is it that controls Public Education?
> ...



Your ignorance concerning the matter is glaring like the sun..


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Jun 5, 2012)

midcan5 said:


> On USMB the other day a fake commencement address by a right wing talking head is praised as the best ever. Since I know many teachers, and the work they do, and the difficulties they face in a society in which only money and sports are worshipped, I took umbrage with such nonsense.



I knew this entire thread was going to be based on something really stupid when I saw the title and author, and this paragraph confirmed it. Tell me something, if this society only worships money and sports, how do you explain Kim Kardashian?



midcan5 said:


> My solution to the buffoon's 'libelous'* speech - I am not sure what word to use when someone who earns their living talking shit all day criticizes people who actually contribute to society - was the old fashioned one, a good punch in the mouth followed by a toss off the stage. How else could you rationally debate a total jackass.



If I ever figure it out I will let you know by using the technique on you. Until them I will mock you whenever you catch my attention.



midcan5 said:


> I was raised in a world in which the teacher was in charge in the classroom and the student listened. Today in America every moron, with equally moronic parents, is not only right, but the teachers wrong. And then when asked why our students do so poorly, the teachers are blamed. Imagine if little Joanie studied instead of texting and kicking a ball all evening?



You were raised in communist Russia? That explains a lot, because the simple truth is that, in the US, parents have always had a say in their children's education. Y9ou cannot point to a time in our history where that was not true, and a I challenge you to prove me wrong.



midcan5 said:


> America is becoming stupid because the ideas of fools are taken serious, consider Fox as an example, its listeners know nothing about the world, or consider Rush Limbaugh's nonsense, then there is Coulter, Savage, Beck, Hannity, et al, can anyone think of dumber media personalities? Lots out there. Big money fools support the stupid because the stupid say and write and print what the big money fools want them to say. Consider the revisionist stupidity from Jonah Goldberg? Seriously, are these fools the best the conservatives can bring to the table today?



They certainly are not, but they are more than smart enough to deal with you and the people like you.



midcan5 said:


> Liberals today need to call a spade a spade, stupidity is sponsored by the wealthy stupid, and the greedy stupid, and the ideological stupid, stupidity has gone on too long. Every fool gets a Koch, Simmons, Perry, Murdoch et al soapbox when the fool argues against the American values that made this country great, so it time we too call stupid stupid. Unapologetic, I have to say anyone who praises Neal Boortz's fake commencement address is kinda stupid, nah, let's be honest, really stupid.



I see the entire problem here, you think a guy that wants to let all drug offenders out of prison, supports abortion, and same sex marriage is a conservative right wing Republican. (I actually had to look all that up because I had never heard of the guy.) Believe it or not, that says more about you than it does him.



midcan5 said:


> "Quite possibly, this belief in our own opinion, regardless of the facts, may be what separates us from the nations of the world, what makes us unique in Gods eyes. The average German or Czech, though possibly no less ignorant than his American counterpart, will probably consider the possibility that someone who has spent his life studying something may have an opinion worth considering. Not the American. Although perfectly willing to recognize expertise in basketball, for example, or refrigerator repair, when it comes to the realm of ideas, all folks (and their opinions) are suddenly equal. Thus evolution is a damned lie, global warming a liberal hoax, and Republicans care about people like you."  Mark Slouka



Quotes only prove you can find quotes.



midcan5 said:


> * When a right wing talking head condemns a whole group as incompetent, he not makes himself the fool, but his criticism paints a false portrait of a noble profession. Stupid speech is stupid speech and should be labeled stupid.



But a left wing talking head doing the same thing is the height of reason.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Jun 5, 2012)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> > America is becoming stupid because the ideas of fools are taken serious, consider Fox as an example, its listeners know nothing about the world, or consider Rush Limbaugh's nonsense, then there is Coulter, Savage, Beck, Hannity, et al, can anyone think of dumber media personalities? Lots out there. Big money fools support the stupid because the stupid say and write and print what the big money fools want them to say. Consider the revisionist stupidity from Jonah Goldberg? Seriously, are these fools the best the conservatives can bring to the table today?
> 
> 
> Yes.
> ...



A guy who doesn't even know how to use the quote button has no business calling anyone stupid.


----------



## Si modo (Jun 5, 2012)

Parody is "libel" to the OP.

That's pretty funny.


----------



## theHawk (Jun 6, 2012)

midcan5 said:


> On USMB the other day a fake commencement address by a right wing talking head is praised as the best ever. Since I know many teachers, and the work they do, and the difficulties they face in a society in which only money and sports are worshipped, I took umbrage with such nonsense.
> 
> My solution to the buffoon's 'libelous'* speech - I am not sure what word to use when someone who earns their living talking shit all day criticizes people who actually contribute to society - was the old fashioned one, a good punch in the mouth followed by a toss off the stage. How else could you rationally debate a total jackass.
> 
> ...



Liberals have been running our education system at all levels for decades.  If you are wondering why there are so many stupid people you may want to take it up with them.

Its funny how you immediately jump to on air conservative personalities as the blame, yet you can't say what makes them stupid.  All those conservatives ever do is point out what liberals are doing.  And to answer you question, yes I can think of dumber media personalities - Ed, Maddow, Mathews, Michael Moore, and of course the ultimate media personality Barack Hussein Obama.


----------



## blimpo (Jun 6, 2012)

One word--"Rush".


----------



## PoliticalChic (Jun 6, 2012)

blimpo said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Mad Scientist said:
> ...



'Glaring' means giving off a dazzling light.

Giving off light usually refers to 'enlightenment,' 'revelation,' or learning.

Aiming to insult the poster, you have, instead, revealed a startling lack of ability in this area.

 Unfortunately, you have no future in writing opinionsthe good news? You are qualified to write what is the most lucrative of compositions: ransom notes.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Jun 6, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...



Not if the light is reflected.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Jun 6, 2012)

midcan5 said:


> America is becoming stupid because the ideas of fools are taken serious, consider Fox as an example, its listeners know nothing about the world, or consider Rush Limbaugh's nonsense, then there is Coulter, Savage, Beck, Hannity, et al, can anyone think of dumber media personalities? .



1) if they are dumb then our Founders were dumb since they all believe in freedom from big liberal government

2) our kids are the dumbest in the civilized world because they go to liberal government schools where the status quo is expected and encouraged. The solution is to make them  competitive and capitalist like our universities which are the best in the world.


----------



## regent (Jun 6, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> midcan5 said:
> 
> 
> > America is becoming stupid because the ideas of fools are taken serious, consider Fox as an example, its listeners know nothing about the world, or consider Rush Limbaugh's nonsense, then there is Coulter, Savage, Beck, Hannity, et al, can anyone think of dumber media personalities? .
> ...



The founders took a small government with no power and dumped it in the trash and created a larger government with numerous powers such as the power to make war, the power to tax the power to control commerce and on and on. 
As to our capitalitic universities how many universites are state schools and how many national government schools? And of the private capitalistic universties how many accept taxpayer monies? Maybe Oral Roberts does not?


----------



## blimpo (Jun 7, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...




Context my dear.

Glaring as describing something that is beyond being simply obvious. 

You are a dunce...sit in the corner.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Jun 7, 2012)

regent said:


> The founders took a small government with no power and dumped it in the trash and created a larger government with numerous powers such as the power to make war,



but we had a war before the Constitution



regent said:


> the power to tax



left right center agree that the government can tax??????




regent said:


> the power to control commerce




there was no power to control commerce only to encourage free trade




regent said:


> As to our capitalitic universities how many universites are state schools



The Ivy League sets the standard for the entire world and is moslty private. Our colleges and Universities are far more private than our public schools which are the worst in the world





regent said:


> and how many national government schools? And of the private capitalistic universties how many accept taxpayer monies? Maybe Oral Roberts does not?



accepting some money does not make them public schools like our real liberal public schools which are consistently the worst in the world.


----------



## regent (Jun 7, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > The founders took a small government with no power and dumped it in the trash and created a larger government with numerous powers such as the power to make war,
> ...



Yeah we had a war before the Constittution, and your point?  
Are tariffs free trade, how about embargos? 
Universtities, public or private can cherry pick students, but not public schools. 
I doubt if you could even make a case that our public schools are the worst in the world. 
If schools accept government money, might that money have some strings? 
And do you think private and public universities might have faculty organizations similar to teacher unions?


----------



## Stephanie (Jun 7, 2012)

midcan5 said:


> On USMB the other day a fake commencement address by a right wing talking head is praised as the best ever. Since I know many teachers, and the work they do, and the difficulties they face in a society in which only money and sports are worshipped, I took umbrage with such nonsense.
> 
> My solution to the buffoon's 'libelous'* speech - I am not sure what word to use when someone who earns their living talking shit all day criticizes people who actually contribute to society - was the old fashioned one, a good punch in the mouth followed by a toss off the stage. How else could you rationally debate a total jackass.
> 
> ...



what an pompous ass rant... talks about some talking head condemns a whole group as incompetent, then call people who watch Fox news, as not knowing anything about the world.

typical liberal believes themselves BETTER and superior above others who they see as Beneath them..
barf worthy is all this was and blaa blaa blaa would of been more interesting.


----------



## Tsalagi (Jun 7, 2012)

We encourage intelligence, then give 6 year olds cell phones with texting ability. So now they can't interact in reality, text the person seated two seats away and carry on an enthusiastic "conversate" without having to look the other person in the eye. Then they go to class and text throughout the lecture, even though the professor has forbidden cell phones, and bitch when their grade is lowered.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Jun 8, 2012)

regent said:


> I doubt if you could even make a case that our public schools are the worst in the world.



This is true, most surveys show they are about 23rd in the civilized world. Libturds are destroying our children and fight for the status quo!!

Republicans want vouchers and so do ghetto parents whose kids  suffer most from liberal union education.

liberal unions prevented war production in WW2
liberal government unions are willing to bankrupt the country so they can make double pay
liberal unions are willing to destroy our kids


----------



## regent (Jun 8, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > I doubt if you could even make a case that our public schools are the worst in the world.
> ...



I wonder if those top notch American universities you admire so much have unions? In fact, isn't the Harvard faculty noted for their liberalism, even Nixon calling Harvard, the Kemlin on the Charles. Do you suppose the American Association of University Professors with almost 50,000 members is sort of like a union, perhaps even a teacher's union? I wonder how many groups have organized to protect their position in society? In fact, is the  there any working group, perhaps any group of Americans that has not organized to protect their status, income and all the other perks that go with working? Unions are part of America, sort of like apple pie.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Jun 8, 2012)

regent said:


> I wonder if those top notch American universities you admire so much have unions?



They have unions but they are not run and controlled by unions. Is that really over your head! 

Are you dumb enough to support unions?? Why not put all Americans in a union then and demand $100/ hour minimum. why do only some get to steal with violence and not everyone??




In fact, isn't the Harvard faculty noted for their liberalism, even Nixon calling Harvard, the Kemlin on the Charles. Do you suppose the American Association of University Professors with almost 50,000 members is sort of like a union, perhaps even a teacher's union? I wonder how many groups have organized to protect their position in society? In fact, is the  there any working group, perhaps any group of Americans that has not organized to protect their status, income and all the other perks that go with working? Unions are part of America, sort of like apple pie.[/QUOTE]


----------



## regent (Jun 8, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder if those top notch American universities you admire so much have unions?
> ...


----------



## blimpo (Jun 9, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > I doubt if you could even make a case that our public schools are the worst in the world.
> ...




How many times must it be said--we encourage 'everyone' to continue their education while other countries cull out the special ed and slow learners.


----------



## blimpo (Jun 9, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > I doubt if you could even make a case that our public schools are the worst in the world.
> ...




Yeah, those guys on the back of the town garbage truck are rolling in dough...


----------



## Annie (Jun 9, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Mad Scientist said:
> ...



and the 'dancing with the stars' watchers? The parents.


----------



## yidnar (Jun 9, 2012)

midcan5 said:


> On USMB the other day a fake commencement address by a right wing talking head is praised as the best ever. Since I know many teachers, and the work they do, and the difficulties they face in a society in which only money and sports are worshipped, I took umbrage with such nonsense.
> 
> My solution to the buffoon's 'libelous'* speech - I am not sure what word to use when someone who earns their living talking shit all day criticizes people who actually contribute to society - was the old fashioned one, a good punch in the mouth followed by a toss off the stage. How else could you rationally debate a total jackass.
> 
> ...


 this is stupid libb !![ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1FCmfo2Ft4]obama will pay my bills!! - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 9, 2012)

> Of course I support most unions and most professional organizations, even the AMA, ABA, and AFT, and sometimes the VFW, DAR, and others. This is a nation of organizations, people organize to have a stronger voice it goes with democracy.
> For a union to demand a raise doesn't mean they'll get it, nor does it mean they are stealing, but if they are in a union they have a better chance of getting something.
> History is pretty clear that labor violence began with company union-busting tactics.



Correct. And indeed the labor union came about as a result of business: had business owners treated workers with dignity and respect during the last half of the 19th Century, paying a fair wage in a safe workplace, there would have been no need for workers to organize to begin with. 

But human nature being what it is, business owners instead decided to abuse and exploit their employees, and workers were forced to respond by organizing. 

The future of unions is in the hands of business owners and employers, as has always been the case.


----------



## midcan5 (Jun 9, 2012)

"Whether you believe the Republicans are engaging in purposely destructive fiscal behavior or are simply fiscally incompetent, it almost doesn't matter. It most certainly is bad economic policy and that should be part of any national debate not only on who is to blame for the current economic mess, but also what steps should be taken to get out from underneath it."


Why does it not matter? Any idea?


"Why has job creation in America slowed to a crawl? Why, after several months of economic hope, are things suddenly turning sour? The culprits might seem obvious  uncertainty in Europe, an uneven economic recovery, fiscal and monetary policymakers immobilized and incapable of acting. But increasingly, Democrats are making the argument that the real culprit for the country's economic woes lies in a more discrete location: with the Republican Party."  Did Republicans deliberately crash the US economy? | Michael Cohen | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk


"Percentage of the current U.S. debt that was accumulated during Republican presidential terms: 71 
Portion of debt-ceiling elevations since 1960 that have been signed into law by Republican presidents : 2/3 
Percentage of profits American corporations paid in taxes in 1961 : 40.6 Today: 10.5
Portion of the increase in U.S. corporate profit margins since 2001 that come from depressed wages: 3/4 
Percentage of Americans who say they did not have money to buy food at all times last year: 18.2 
Percentage change in the median household wealth of white families since 2005 : -16 Of Hispanic families: -66 "

October 2011, page 15 (Harper's Magazine Index)


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jun 9, 2012)

blimpo said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > regent said:
> ...



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM19YOqs7hU]Joe Biden&#39;s racist slip - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jun 9, 2012)

midcan5 said:


> "Whether you believe the Republicans are engaging in purposely destructive fiscal behavior or are simply fiscally incompetent, it almost doesn't matter. It most certainly is bad economic policy and that should be part of any national debate not only on who is to blame for the current economic mess, but also what steps should be taken to get out from underneath it."
> 
> 
> Why does it not matter? Any idea?
> ...



One Obama Deficit > All 8 Reagan Deficit

One Obama deficit > Any Reagan Budget


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Jun 9, 2012)

midcan5 said:


> "Whether you believe the Republicans are engaging in purposely destructive fiscal behavior or are simply fiscally incompetent, it almost doesn't matter. It most certainly is bad economic policy and that should be part of any national debate not only on who is to blame for the current economic mess, but also what steps should be taken to get out from underneath it."
> 
> 
> Why does it not matter? Any idea?
> ...



You pop back in and post quotes, but don't actually address any of the posts that challenged you.

Interesting tactic.








not


----------



## IanC (Jun 16, 2012)

I went to my daughter's Convocation last wednesday and the keynote speaker was a woman receiving an honorary doctorate. even though she was a qualified lawyer practising in the field her speech was such a mismash of politically correct 'trueisms' and mutually exclusive ideas that I felt ashamed for the University and the graduating students that had to sit through a ten minute example of what is wrong in education today. if it wasnt such a solemn occasion I would have thought it was a satire worthy of laughing my ass off.


----------



## PredFan (Jun 16, 2012)

I guess the idiot OP just proved his own thread title. Doubtful that he even listened to the speech he is criticising.


----------



## IanC (Jun 16, 2012)

PredFan said:


> I guess the idiot OP just proved his own thread title. Doubtful that he even listened to the speech he is criticising.



I cant imagine calling Coulter or Limbaugh stupid. wrong maybe but not stupid. I cant think of any liberal talking heads that would look forward to debating either of them. usually libs just make a quick dump of prepared insults and then head to the hill before they get slashed to threads.

Beck on the other hand.....


----------



## blimpo (Jun 18, 2012)

ANYTIME you use politics to discuss educational issues you wander so far afield people that deal with education on a daily basis are going to think you are an absolute fool.

Take the political glasses off when discussing these issues....


----------



## Oddball (Jun 18, 2012)

blimpo said:


> ANYTIME you use politics to discuss educational issues you wander so far afield people that deal with education on a daily basis are going to think you are an absolute fool.
> 
> Take the political glasses off when discussing these issues....


Doesn't matter to the OP...In his world, everyone who isn't a Kool-Aid banging Marxist is too stupid for their own good.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Jun 20, 2012)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> This is very difficult to do, of course, as the facts often follow the lies conservatives spew, particularly with regard to the conservative tactic of aggressively repeating lies over and over again in the hope they be perceived as the truth.



Education is simple:

1)Liberals want the liberal union status quo: our kids the dumbest in the world

2) conservatives want to privatize:  kill unions and give parents vouchers to shop to make our kids the smartest in the world.  


It really is just that simple.


----------



## GWV5903 (Jun 20, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> > This is very difficult to do, of course, as the facts often follow the lies conservatives spew, particularly with regard to the conservative tactic of aggressively repeating lies over and over again in the hope they be perceived as the truth.
> ...



midcan5 needs to only look in the mirror to identify with title of this thread, and read the drivel contained in the opening comment, quit a rant...

Being a parent of three incredibly gifted teens, it had very little to do with their teachers, some would be an exception, it had more to do with their mother being home and involved in their everyday lives, sound morals and respect for others...

Yes it is that simple, yet public funded schools have all the money, private can not compete...

The unions have ruined education, Detroit, Pittsburgh, etc...

We need a revolution and soon...


----------



## blimpo (Jun 21, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> > This is very difficult to do, of course, as the facts often follow the lies conservatives spew, particularly with regard to the conservative tactic of aggressively repeating lies over and over again in the hope they be perceived as the truth.
> ...





By admitting that the solution is "simple", you have also proven that the level of your thinking is also "simple".


----------



## LogikAndReazon (Jun 21, 2012)

If only the kiddies could be learned real good by Marx, Chomsky, Zinn and Gitlin..........lol


----------



## midcan5 (Jun 28, 2012)

===========   Addendum 

Watching American politics these past few days has made me consider that stupid doesn't quite fit the narrative of absurdity that has become our political environment. 

When the republicans lost to William Clinton the atmosphere was similar, but today the ridiculous has become the norm, Kyl, West, and Issa reach a level of ridiculous that says a great deal about the nation and its people. When an English paper estimated the number of stupid people in America, they had no idea. When the House went tea party republican, stupidity attained a new level of stupid.

Out of power, republicans are at their finest if we can define finest as absurd investigations, idiotic conspiracy, and a general disrespect for democracy and the truth. 

A busy American who only listens to Rush, watches Fox, and gets their emails from the Townhall, Newsmax et al, would be so lost in BS that one could only blame... who would you point your finger at?

Stupidity has become purposeful for the republicans and big money, any loss or threat to their power is now met with propaganda every dictator and totalitarian can only dream about. Money controls our courts and congress today and the voters placidly accept BS as truth.  

But stupid American, remember it is jobs they are working for, now ask whose and why. 



PS  If someone thinks they can counter this position, have at it, link your previous post number if you think you have already addressed the issue. Most replies are in the same childish category, no, you are. Prove me wrong.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jun 28, 2012)

midcan5 said:


> ===========   Addendum
> 
> Watching American politics these past few days has made me consider that stupid doesn't quite fit the narrative of absurdity that has become our political environment.
> 
> ...



Tea Party iz stoopid but we're kicking your ass so where does that put youze?


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Jun 28, 2012)

midcan5 said:


> ===========   Addendum
> 
> Watching American politics these past few days has made me consider that stupid doesn't quite fit the narrative of absurdity that has become our political environment.



You are right, it doesn't, but not for the reasons you think.



midcan5 said:


> When the republicans lost to William Clinton the atmosphere was similar, but today the ridiculous has become the norm, Kyl, West, and Issa reach a level of ridiculous that says a great deal about the nation and its people. When an English paper estimated the number of stupid people in America, they had no idea. When the House went tea party republican, stupidity attained a new level of stupid.
> 
> Out of power, republicans are at their finest if we can define finest as absurd investigations, idiotic conspiracy, and a general disrespect for democracy and the truth.



Let me presume that you think that the Democrats in power are just the opposite, intelligent, insightful, and, perhaps even, calm. Can you explain why they spent the two years they were in power not passing any of their promised legislation? And whey, even now, the Democratic majority in the Senate refuses to pass a budget? 



midcan5 said:


> A busy American who only listens to Rush, watches Fox, and gets their emails from the Townhall, Newsmax et al, would be so lost in BS that one could only blame... who would you point your finger at?



Probably you.



midcan5 said:


> Stupidity has become purposeful for the republicans and big money, any loss or threat to their power is now met with propaganda every dictator and totalitarian can only dream about. Money controls our courts and congress today and the voters placidly accept BS as truth.



Rich people are stupid? How did they mange to get rich in the first place?

I will post something later that explains why money does not control politics. It will involve a history lesson, something you really need to pay more attention to.



midcan5 said:


> But stupid American, remember it is jobs they are working for, now ask whose and why.
> 
> 
> 
> PS  If someone thinks they can counter this position, have at it, link your previous post number if you think you have already addressed the issue. Most replies are in the same childish category, no, you are. Prove me wrong.



My suggestion, go back and read the thread. You started it, it is not my responsibility to go back and re argue points you already lost.


----------



## midcan5 (Jun 28, 2012)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Tea Party iz stoopid but we're kicking your ass so where does that put youze?



You are?  How's that? Bush and his sidekick Cheney are gone, the senate is still sane, as for the house, retards often get elected there, so I wouldn't count that as a win. Oh and how are those jobs coming along, or have the communists stole them all. You said it, stupid has a new level of stupid, tea party stupid.




Quantum Windbag said:


> ...Rich people are stupid? How did they mange to get rich in the first place?
> 
> I will post something later that explains why money does not control politics. It will involve a history lesson, something you really need to pay more attention to.



You obviously know few rich people, I happen to know lots have risen up the food chain. I'll be waiting for your apology for greed. This needs work as republicans are still failing.  http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/186726-republican-ideology-through-history-7.html#post4251322

_


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Jun 28, 2012)

midcan5 said:


> When the House went tea party republican, stupidity attained a new level of stupid.



why??? The Tea Party is for limited government just as our Founders were?   Does the liberal really think our Founders were stupid???


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Jun 28, 2012)

midcan5 said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Tea Party iz stoopid but we're kicking your ass so where does that put youze?
> ...



I already replied to your history lesson way back when you posted it.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/186726-republican-ideology-through-history-3.html#post4251422


----------



## Douger (Jul 11, 2012)

starcraftzzz said:


> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> > Who is it that controls Public Education? It aint the Religious types. Cause if that were true, then Public School kids would be winning those Scripps Spelling Bees.
> ...


Hail yaw. Then tharza football temez !


----------



## Douger (Jul 11, 2012)

angelluck said:


> I don't think that America is the stupid but it is very nice country.....


Country ?
Does that mean South America begins at that thar masonik dicksin lyne ?


----------



## Dante (Jul 12, 2012)

midcan5 said:


> On USMB the other day a fake commencement address by a right wing talking head is praised as the best ever. Since I know many teachers, and the work they do, and the difficulties they face in a society in which only money and sports are worshipped, I took umbrage with such nonsense.
> 
> My solution to the buffoon's 'libelous'* speech - I am not sure what word to use when someone who earns their living talking shit all day criticizes people who actually contribute to society - was the old fashioned one, a good punch in the mouth followed by a toss off the stage. How else could you rationally debate a total jackass.
> 
> ...



where? I want to read the funny.  Neal Boortz?  never mind.


----------



## midcan5 (Jul 26, 2012)

Make sure you listen till the end.  Maybe 'stupid' is just what right wing media thinks of their listeners and they're just being dishonest in hopes their listeners are really stupid?  You think? Or are their listeners just stupid and honesty has no place in this world nor does it really matter? What a conundrum.  

'Do We Look Stupid? Don't Answer That Edition - Grammatical Gaffes'

Democalypse 2012 - Do We Look Stupid? Don't Answer That Edition - Grammatical Gaffes - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 07/25/12 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

==============================================================================

Alli Baba,  aka koshergr,  if you are going to comment on my threads feel free to do so, if you are going to give me reputation, please, at least allow me to comment and reply to you. Only cowards leave comments and then run and hide. My to reply is below. 



			
				koshergrl said:
			
		

> Hi, you have received ... reputation points from koshergrl.
> Reputation was given for *this* post.
> 
> Regards,
> ...




Alli,  

How have you been?  Haven't heard from you in a long time, after you changed your name I missed your usually intelligent commentary. So when you counter the 'Stupid' OP let me know I'd be curious on your position and would love to get a real challenge from the right. Usually you guys just whine and cry the sky is falling. Have a good day, and thanks for taking the time to read and reply to my OP.

your mentor,  mc5


----------



## ScienceRocks (Jul 26, 2012)

Is America's population more intelligent(higher standards) then let's say Mexico, Brazil, South Africa, Congo, Kenya? I'd say America has room to improve, but stupid, no!


----------



## Interpol (Jul 26, 2012)

Hey man, that's what American Exceptionalism is all about these days, didn't ya know? 

We have the freedom to be as stupid as we wanna be!

WooHOOOOOOO!!


----------



## Wiseacre (Jul 26, 2012)

What we have here is the typical left-wing concept of everyone but themselves.   Everyone else is a dumbfuck, not smart enough to make reasoned decisions about their lives and what is in the best interests of their country.   So, the decisions must be made for them, by the educated elite who of course know better.   This has been the liberal mindset for at least the last century, and it ain't going to change.

I was just thinking that this was a bone of contention back in the beginning;   There were those who thought that only the landed gentry and business people were smart enough to vote and make informed decisions about what should be done.   They did not prevail, thank goodness.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Jul 26, 2012)

Interpol said:


> Hey man, that's what American Exceptionalism is all about these days, didn't ya know?
> 
> We have the freedom to be as stupid as we wanna be!
> 
> WooHOOOOOOO!!



Better than 70 percent of the world. Room to improve.


----------



## midcan5 (Aug 2, 2012)

Folks, I take it all back. America is not stupid, and this new show brought me back into the light. Boo Boo, I thank you.  Watch the related youtubes as well, mea culpa,  mea maxima culpa!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As4FRvK6H6I]Honey Boo Boo Toddlers & Tiaras Spin-Off: "Here Comes Honey Boo Boo" With Alana Thompson - YouTube[/ame]


"So I have no peroration or clarion note on which to close. Beware the irrational, however seductive. Shun the 'transcendent' and all who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself. Distrust compassion; prefer dignity for yourself and others. Don't be afraid to be thought arrogant or selfish. Picture all experts as if they were mammals. Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence. Suspect your own motives, and all excuses. Do not live for others any more than you expect others to live for you."  Christopher Hitchens 'letters to a young contrarian'


----------



## Huey (Aug 25, 2012)

This is a stupid post.


----------



## daveman (Aug 25, 2012)

Pale Rider said:


> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...


But hey, you can get a medal just for showing up!


----------



## daveman (Aug 25, 2012)

DGS49 said:


> What a sad, pathetic little person.  Calls others "stupid" but can't seem to come up with a single example of someone saying or doing something that proves the point.
> 
> Someone in this discussion is definitely stupid.



He's using the standard leftist definition of stupid:  "Someone who disagrees with me."

Because, you know, being a liberal automatically makes you smart and stuff.


----------



## daveman (Aug 25, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Parody is "libel" to the OP.
> 
> That's pretty funny.


Midcan's in luck.  I hear Obamacare will cover Chronic Stick-Up-The-Ass as a pre-existing condition.


----------



## daveman (Aug 25, 2012)

Wiseacre said:


> What we have here is the typical left-wing concept of everyone but themselves.   Everyone else is a dumbfuck, not smart enough to make reasoned decisions about their lives and what is in the best interests of their country.   So, the decisions must be made for them, by the educated elite who of course know better.   This has been the liberal mindset for at least the last century, and it ain't going to change.
> 
> I was just thinking that this was a bone of contention back in the beginning;   There were those who thought that only the landed gentry and business people were smart enough to vote and make informed decisions about what should be done.   They did not prevail, thank goodness.


And you know what's really funny about the left's elitist notion that they have to dictate decisions to the proles?

Even the most uneducated, ignorant, and stupid of the left believe they're qualified to run everyone else's lives.

As we see here every day. 

I've said it before:  Holding to a set of beliefs -- liberalism -- isn't an accomplishment worthy of praise and respect. It doesn't give your opinions the weight of fact. 

And the people who believe it does are incapable of understanding that basic fact.


----------



## blimpo (Aug 25, 2012)

daveman said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> > What we have here is the typical left-wing concept of everyone but themselves.   Everyone else is a dumbfuck, not smart enough to make reasoned decisions about their lives and what is in the best interests of their country.   So, the decisions must be made for them, by the educated elite who of course know better.   This has been the liberal mindset for at least the last century, and it ain't going to change.
> ...




Ever try to have a discussion with a Tea Party member?


----------



## squeeze berry (Aug 26, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...




Blimpo is spot on when it comes to education.


----------



## daveman (Aug 26, 2012)

blimpo said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Wiseacre said:
> ...


I'll put the resume of your average TEA Party member up against the resume of your average OWS park-pooper any day.


----------



## blimpo (Aug 26, 2012)

There was a picture in the paper of a Tea Party rally the other day and 75% at least were over 60.

With what has been said about Medicare and SS, you'd have to be deaf, ignorant or both to still think they are on the right track to stop all spending.


----------



## daveman (Aug 26, 2012)

blimpo said:


> There was a picture in the paper of a Tea Party rally the other day and 75% at least were over 60.
> 
> With what has been said about Medicare and SS, you'd have to be deaf, ignorant or both to still think they are on the right track to stop all spending.



Your guesses are inaccurate.  TEA Party demographics are close to those of the nation as a whole.

Tea Partiers Are Fairly Mainstream in Their Demographics


----------



## blimpo (Aug 27, 2012)

They weren't in the overhead picture of the crowd pictured in a local paper..


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Aug 27, 2012)

blimpo said:


> Ever try to have a discussion with a Tea Party member?



I'm a member. Let's try to have a discussion. I'm sure liberalism is stupid and it's easily proven. Please start by trying to say something intelligent in support of liberalism. Thanks


----------



## midcan5 (Aug 28, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> > Ever try to have a discussion with a Tea Party member?
> ...



It is nice to see this thread still creating some dialogue. I do not personally know a single person who claims tea party membership? I guess most people are either working or too busy to be involved with a group formed after the 2008 election loss. If you notice the tea party caucus does not have a presence at the RNC.  All the real nuts have been excluded, that has to tell you something. 

"If history teaches us anything about politics it is this: Given enough time, liberals always win. The US was forged in liberalism, and has become more liberal with each generation. The leftward movement has seldom been smooth or consistent, but it has been unstoppable." Keith A. Pickering

If you doubt the above consider: DADT, ACA, and the unconstitutionality of DOMA.


----------



## blimpo (Aug 28, 2012)

[q


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Aug 28, 2012)

midcan5 said:


> The US was forged in liberalism,.



if so then liberals who stood for very very limited government. Who knew some liberals stood for that.

I guess our liberals spied for Stalin and gave him the bomb because Uncle Joe was liberal too??


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 28, 2012)

blimpo said:


> They weren't in the overhead picture of the crowd pictured in a local paper..



Is that your 'scientific method' professor?


----------



## initforme (Aug 31, 2012)

Who ever said america was a "smart" country?  I don't believe it ever was.    No dumber, no smarter than any other country.   As far as education, teachers are the scapegoat.   You get out of it what you put in.   Its the parents that need to look themselves right in the mirror.


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 31, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> Who is it that controls Public Education? It aint the Religious types. Cause if that were true, then Public School kids would be winning those Scripps Spelling Bees.
> 
> When WAS the last time that happened?



Homeschooled kids do win spelling bees alot


----------



## blimpo (Aug 31, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> > They weren't in the overhead picture of the crowd pictured in a local paper..
> ...




I said nothing about any scientific method.

I was describing what I saw which was an accurate description.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Sep 1, 2012)

initforme said:


> Who ever said america was a "smart" country?  I don't believe it ever was.    No dumber, no smarter than any other country.



too stupid!!! we used to have the highest percent of college grads!!!!




initforme said:


> As far as education, teachers are the scapegoat.   You get out of it what you put in.   Its the parents that need to look themselves right in the mirror.



too stupid but perfectly liberal!! Is that your actionable policy??? Parents must look themselves right in the eye!!

An actionable policy is to make liberal thug unions illegal again!! and let parents shop with vouchers for schools!! Then you'd have some incentive to get our kids off the bottom of the educational heap!!!


----------



## midcan5 (Jan 24, 2013)

'The South has decided to be defeated and dumb'

Nowhere is the power of propaganda more pronounced than in the South, but what is the source or the reason for the prop? The other day Rand Paul is talking about losing our freedom because WMDs, aka assault weapons, would be regulated. Listening to this man I could not help but think how stupid he was - or how stupid his constituents were for voting in so stupid a person. Is it any wonder the statistics in the article below about the South are what they are?  How do we educate people whose level of knowledge is guided by a fundamentalism so rigid they would find the 15th century home? 

"But the current South is willing to cut off its own nose to show contempt for the government. Governor Rick Scott of Florida turned down more than $2 billion in federal funds for a high-speed rail system in Florida that would have created jobs and millions of dollars in revenues, just to show he was independent of the hated federal government. In this mood, his forebears would have turned down TVA. People across the South are going even farther than Scott, begging to secede again from the Union. Packer notes that the tea is cooling in parties across the rest of the nation, but seems to be fermenting to a more toxic brew in the South. No one needs better health care more than the South, but it fights it off so long as Obama is offering it, its governors turning down funds for Medicaid. This is a region that rejects sex education, though its rate of teenage pregnancies is double and in places triple that of New England. It fights federal help with education, preferring to inoculate its children against science by denying evolution.

No part of the country will suffer the effects of global warming earlier or with more devastation than the South, yet its politicians resist measures to curb carbon emissions and deny the very existence of climate changesending it to the dungeon with evolution and biblical errancy. One doesnt need much imagination to see the South with lowered or swollen waters in its rivers and ports, raging kudzu, swarming mosquitos [sic], and record-breaking high temperatures, still telling itself that global-warming talk is just a liberal conspiracy. But it just digs deeper in denial. The South has decided to be defeated and dumb."

Dumb America by Garry Wills | NYRblog | The New York Review of Books


----------



## Unkotare (Jan 24, 2013)

Haven't been following the news much this winter, huh?


----------



## daveman (Jan 24, 2013)

midcan5 said:


> 'The South has decided to be defeated and dumb'
> 
> Nowhere is the power of propaganda more pronounced than in the South, but what is the source or the reason for the prop? The other day Rand Paul is talking about losing our freedom because WMDs, aka assault weapons, would be regulated. Listening to this man I could not help but think how stupid he was - or how stupid his constituents were for voting in so stupid a person.


He's not nearly as stupid as some hyperemotional dumbass who claims that semi-automatic rifles are weapons of mass destruction.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 24, 2013)

midcan5:  Listening to this man I could not help but think how stupid he was - or how stupid his constituents were for voting in so stupid a person. 


exactly what's stupid about wanting guns to protect ourselves from liberal government?? Did you think our Founders gave us the Second Amendment so we could hunt deer?? Do all liberals hate the basic principles of America???


----------



## midcan5 (Jan 25, 2013)

It's not just me or Garry Wills who wrote the OP quoted above.

"Haley Barbour: GOP's 'Stupid' And 'Offensive' Comments Damage Entire Party's Brand'
"When you consider what two Senate candidates ... the comments that they made were stupid comments, offensive comments, and in today's world, when a candidate says something, the negative effect of that can spill over to lots of other candidates," Barbour said on CBS' "This Morning."



EdwardBaiamonte said:


> midcan5:  Listening to this man I could not help but think how stupid he was - or how stupid his constituents were for voting in so stupid a person.
> 
> exactly what's stupid about wanting guns to protect ourselves from liberal government?? Did you think our Founders gave us the Second Amendment so we could hunt deer?? Do all liberals hate the basic principles of America???



Edward,  I hope you are ten or twelve as if you think guns would ever protect you from our military might you are off your rocker.  And personally we do not have a 'liberal' government, whatever that might be in your mind, if we had one we would all live in an even nicer America. Given our political system, we will never have any government that is one party or ideology. And the 2nd was to protect the state and has nothing to do with hunters or insurrection. 

"In 1991, Warren E. Burger, the conservative chief justice of the Supreme Court, was  interviewed on the MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour about the meaning of the Second  Amendment's "right to keep and bear arms." Burger answered that the Second  Amendment "has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud--I repeat the word  'fraud'--on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime." In a speech in 1992, Burger declared that "the Second Amendment doesn't  guarantee the right to have firearms at all. "In his view, the purpose of the Second  Amendment was "to ensure that the 'state armies'--'the militia'--would be maintained for the defense of the state."  The Most Mysterious Right, National Review article


----------



## Mr. Peepers (Jan 25, 2013)

> I cant imagine calling Coulter or Limbaugh stupid. wrong maybe but not stupid. I cant think of any liberal talking heads that would look forward to debating either of them. usually libs just make a quick dump of prepared insults and then head to the hill before they get slashed to threads.
> 
> Beck on the other hand.....



I would relish a debate with Coulter.  I can attest that she is, indeed, stupid (and wrong).

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg7IhR0ccgo]Ann Coulter Gets Owned - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 25, 2013)

Mr. Peepers said:


> I would relish a debate with Coulter.  I can attest that she is, indeed, stupid (and wrong).



actually she's a conservative in the tradition of Aristotle Locke Jefferson Friedman Nosick so how could an illiterate liberal debate her?? Liberalism has no intellectual basis, it's purely reactive ignorance.

Its easy enough to prove too! Just ask a liberal to say something substantive in defense of liberalism!!


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 25, 2013)

midcan5 said:


> Edward,  I hope you are ten or twelve as if you think guns would ever protect you from our military might you are off your rocker.



too stupid!! have you ever heard of guerilla war?? The American Revolution, Vietnam, Afghanistan Iraq??

See why we are positive a liberal will be slow, so very very slow??


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 25, 2013)

midcan5 said:


> if we had one[a liberal America] we would all live in an even nicer America.



Let's see, FDR gave us pure liberalism- ten years of Depression and 5 years of world war. LBJ gave us his near genocode against blacks, and now BO is giving us 4-8 years of depression. Liberals really were held back here though so they spied for Stalin while he was slowly starving 50 millin to death in a great liberal effort to be nice to them!!

See how stupid liberalism is??


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 25, 2013)

midcan5 said:


> the purpose of the Second  Amendment was "to ensure that the 'state armies'--'the militia'--would be maintained for the defense of the state."



actually many millions over the centuries have looked at the second amendment and guess what, the people still have the right to bear arms.

This is because the Amendment which was designed like the other Amendments to protect us from deadly liberals said, "the right of the PEOPLE to bear arms", not the right of the militia to be armed.


See why we say slow?????????????????/


----------



## midcan5 (Mar 9, 2013)

With CPAC coming soon, and Sarah an invitee, I thought this quote funny. Of course someone will write her cpac talk, but it's still fun to listen. I wonder if my comments below still hold?   

Comments: http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/207488-cpac.html

"Sarah Palin's extended genius at playing this game makes her a democratic phenomenon of a particular postmodern sort: the mangled English, the flat contradictions, the complaints of 'gotcha' questions from the 'lamestream' media, the post of aggrieved outsider-all lend her campaigns the status of performance art. "Washington was stunned by the emergence of this feisty outsider from the North," one columnist noted. "For decades, political leaders had seduced voters with their fancy talk and pretty words. But Palin refused to be a slave to oratory or grandiloquence or basic syntax. *She liberated the English language from the rigid orthodoxy of meaning, because in America even words should have freedom: the freedom to appear wherever they'd like, almost as if emerging by chance or random draw."* A sample: "My concern has been the atrocities there in Darfur," Palin once said, "and the relevance to me with that issue as we spoke about Africa and some of the countries there that were kind of the people succumbing to the dictators and the corruption of some collapsed governments on the continent." As the columnist concluded: "Words truer been have spoken never." (Scott Feschuk, "Sarah Palin's no slave to syntax,"" Maclean's (16 October 2009).) Footnote: Mark Kingwell's 'Unruly Voices' p129


----------



## Dante (Mar 9, 2013)

midcan5 said:


> With CPAC coming soon, and Sarah an invitee, I thought this quote funny. Of course someone will write her cpac talk, but it's still fun to listen. I wonder if my comments below still hold?
> 
> Comments: http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/207488-cpac.html
> 
> ...



Sarah and the English language


----------



## Samson (Mar 9, 2013)

midcan5 said:


> America is becoming stupid because the ideas of fools are taken *serious*,



Taken _seriously_,

The word _Serious_ is an adjective.

When modifying the verb "are taken," _seriously_ is an adverb.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 9, 2013)

Samson said:


> midcan5 said:
> 
> 
> > America is becoming stupid because the ideas of fools are taken *serious*,
> ...



America is becoming stupid because the ideas of liberals are taken seriously.

America was very intelligent because it took the ideas of our very conservative, libertarian founders very seriously.

Liberals are, in effect, treasonous which explains why they spied for Stalin and gave him the A-bomb, and why Obama voted to the left of Bernie Sanders.


----------



## Oddball (Mar 9, 2013)

Samson said:


> midcan5 said:
> 
> 
> > America is becoming stupid because the ideas of fools are taken *serious*,
> ...


Midcan't obviously attended a gubmint school.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 9, 2013)

Oddball said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > midcan5 said:
> ...


where he learned his grammer and politics


----------



## ScienceRocks (Mar 9, 2013)

Midcan5 you're right about one thing and that the general population of this country is growing really stupid.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 9, 2013)

Matthew said:


> Midcan5 you're right about one thing and that the general population of this country is growing really stupid.



This is true and favors Democrats. That is why they always want to register more and more folks to vote.


----------



## Annika55 (Mar 9, 2013)

American students are not the dumbest in the world. This not true regardless of how often it is repeated.
The top American students do better than top students in the rest of the world (58 countries), and 25% of the TOP scoring students on the PISA are American students.
The problem with comparing US schools test results to those of other countries is that the US averages two totally different sets of results. There is an enormous gap (the highest of all countries) between US top performers and our bottom performers. As one might expect, when we see a mean, the result is just "average."
As Baiamonte said, it would be "stupid" to attribute all of the blame for the test results of impoverished students attending ghetto schools with limited books, technology and other resources (even soap and toilet paper in Detroit) solely on teachers or their unions when the problem is so complex. These lowest scoring students face inherent social problems and obstacles to success including gang and crime ridden neighborhoods, lack of English proficiency, lack of parental supervision and involvement, minimal community value of education, homes and neighborhoods without educational resources, frequent family moves, teen pregnancy, ubiquitous drug use, truancy, and a lack of high achieving role models Which ALL counter the best efforts of school staff.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 9, 2013)

Annika55 said:


> ALL counter the best efforts of school staff.



another liberal making excuses for our liberal status quo schools turning out about he dumbest kids in the civilized world.

Good schools merely counter all the things you say counter the best efforts of school staff.

See why we are positive a liberal will be slow??


----------



## hunarcy (Mar 9, 2013)

Edward, I'm sorry to say that I can't agree with your premise.  American kids are not the "dumbest kids in the civilized world.  

What creates that false impressionis the fact that we allow each and every student to test while other natons only test their top 40%.


----------



## Annika55 (Mar 9, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> midcan5 said:
> 
> 
> > When the House went tea party republican, stupidity attained a new level of stupid.
> ...



Our Founding Fathers created an oligarchy. They certainly did believe in limited government.
"Of course, at the time this new nation was established, there was still a whole lot of "taxation without representation" going on. In fact, since voting was restricted to men of a certain age who also happened to be landowners and/or whose total wealth equaled a specific amount, the voting pool was really pretty small. Younger men couldn't vote; men of whatever age who didn't meet the landowner and/or wealth requirements couldn't vote; men of color, many of whom were slaves, couldn't vote; and, of course, women (no matter their age, wealth, ethnicity, or whatever) couldn't vote - even though all of these groups were required to pay taxes and even though members of all of these groups had fought for, suffered for, and died for the independence of their new nation." 
The Oligarchy of the United States of America


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 9, 2013)

hunarcy said:


> Edward, I'm sorry to say that I can't agree with your premise.  American kids are not the "dumbest kids in the civilized world.
> 
> What creates that false impressionis the fact that we allow each and every student to test while other natons only test their top 40%.



too stupid and 100% liberal!!! As if the Ph.d scientists who do the international testing and comparisons don't know to take all known variables into account to get accurate comparisons!!!!!


----------



## Samson (Mar 9, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > midcan5 said:
> ...



I'm seriously not a big fan of the dangling modifier.


----------



## Samson (Mar 9, 2013)

Matthew said:


> Midcan5 you're right about one thing and that the general population of this country is growing really stupid.



<<<sigh>>>>



_Midcan5 you're right about one thing which is  the general population of this country is growing really stupid._


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 9, 2013)

Samson said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...


America is becoming stupid because the ideas of liberals are taken seriously.

America was very intelligent because it took the ideas of our very conservative, libertarian founders very seriously.

Liberals are, in effect, treasonous which explains why they spied for Stalin and gave him the A-bomb, and why Obama voted to the left of Bernie Sanders.


----------



## hunarcy (Mar 9, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> hunarcy said:
> 
> 
> > Edward, I'm sorry to say that I can't agree with your premise.  American kids are not the "dumbest kids in the civilized world.
> ...





Feel free to explain how that fact is "taken into account" and then prove it.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Mar 9, 2013)

Douger said:


> Stupid Americans.. - YouTube



To be honest some of those were obama supporters.


----------



## Unkotare (Mar 9, 2013)

Matthew said:


> Midcan5 you're right about one thing and that the general population of this country is growing really stupid.




Is that why your nickname is "General Population"?


----------



## Unkotare (Mar 9, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> where he learned his grammer [sic]...





His what?


----------



## Annika55 (Mar 10, 2013)

Annika55 said:


> American students are not the dumbest in the world. This not true regardless of how often it is repeated.
> The top American students do better than top students in the rest of the world (58 countries), and 25% of the TOP scoring students on the PISA are American students.
> The problem with comparing US schools test results to those of other countries is that the US averages two totally different sets of results. There is an enormous gap (the highest of all countries) between US top performers and our bottom performers. As one might expect, when we see a mean, the result is just "average."
> As Baiamonte said, it would be "stupid" to attribute all of the blame for the test results of impoverished students attending ghetto schools with limited books, technology and other resources (even soap and toilet paper in Detroit) solely on teachers or their unions when the problem is so complex. These lowest scoring students face inherent social problems and obstacles to success
> ...



Another reason America's means scores on international tests are lower than those of other countries is that we test all of our students. Most European and Asian schools start dividing their students into two tracks in HS, an academic and a vo- tech track. In many cases, 50% of the students select the vo-tech program, and only the academic students take the tests like PISA.
Frankly, i think American schools should do a much better job in offering a vo-tech track for students who do not want to go to college. For many of our students, an education in general landscaping or restaurant management might be more valuable than college prep coursework.


----------



## Annika55 (Mar 10, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Annika55 said:
> 
> 
> > ALL counter the best efforts of school staff.
> ...



Actually, I think your posts demonstrate the thinking processes of a slow learner:
1. Total intellectual rigidity: I have presented factual evidence and statistics that prove US students are not the dumbest in the world and, in fact, our top students are dominant. You ignore the information and keep repeating your lies.
2. Intellectual simplicity: you reject complex information with knee jerk responses. I have explained WHY our test scores are
 different from foreign countries because we test all of our students which creates 2 tiers of results, high achievers and low achievers, which are averaged. I explained that most Asian and European schools track their students into vo-tech and college prep schools, so only half their students are included in the International testing. I explained that it is impossible for schools to counter the environmental challenges, the family dysfunction, the values and attitudes of a minority culture, and the barriers to education that result from poverty and limited educational resources.
You reply to logical, meaningful explanations with thoughtless statements like: American students are dumb because teachers are liberal and good schools could counter all of the problems our second tier students face.

3. Avoiding actual, substantive discussion by tossing out epithets and insults.
Instead of explaining HOW good schools could counter all the problems I specifically explained, you respond that liberals are 
slow or call people libtards.

You expect your liberal opposition to offer substantive arguments while all you do is repeat your mantra: US schools are bad and students are dumb because of the evil unions.


----------



## Annika55 (Mar 10, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> hunarcy said:
> 
> 
> > Edward, I'm sorry to say that I can't agree with your premise.  American kids are not the "dumbest kids in the civilized world.
> ...



Can you prove your statement regarding scientists taking known variable into account?
I think the Ph.D scientists just get test scores and present the results with NO accounting for variables like disparities in the testing demographics. Educational researchers and writers do EXPLAIN how certain variables affect the data in journals and books.

You seem to imagine a Ph.D scientist would account for all variables by interviewing each test taking student from each of the countries that participate in the testing. Do you imagine this scientist then adjusts individual or group scores in some way? I guess this scientist considers ALL variables, so he will note whether each student had a good night's sleep before the test, ate a hearty breakfast, and whether or not the student may have had a cold or toothache during the test session.


----------



## squeeze berry (Mar 10, 2013)

Annika55 said:


> Annika55 said:
> 
> 
> > American students are not the dumbest in the world. This not true regardless of how often it is repeated.
> ...



listen up people ^


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 10, 2013)

Annika55 said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > hunarcy said:
> ...



 U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan promptly issued a press release calling the results &#8220;unacceptable,&#8221; saying that they &#8220;underscore the urgency of accelerating achievement in secondary school and the need to close large and persistent achievement gaps,&#8221; and calling particular attention to the fact that the 8th-grade scores in mathematics for U.S. students failed to improve since the previous administration of the TIMSS.

see dear, the man who knows best seems to agree with me and not you and your lying attempts to preseve liberal union  schools at the expense of children.

Why not write to him and tell him the tests are wrong and the status quo is right!!!

See why we are 100% positive a liberal will be slow and lack character?


----------



## arie2l (Mar 10, 2013)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Douger said:
> 
> 
> > Stupid Americans.. - YouTube
> ...




How do you *know* that?


----------



## Oddball (Mar 10, 2013)

Annika55 said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > hunarcy said:
> ...


How many Ph.D scientists  does it take to notice the increasing need for college freshmen to take remedial courses, before they move on to the college level stuff?

Yeah....Variables...


----------



## Annika55 (Mar 10, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Annika55 said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...



The only lies that appeared in my posts are YOUR repetitive statements that American students are the dumbest in the world.
I dont know if Arne Duncan knows best. According to his biography, Arne Duncan, U.S. Secretary of Education -- Biography, he spent no time as a teacher in a classroom. I spent over 30 years as a classroom teacher. I retired 
11 years ago.




I have already explained that US scores show a huge gap between top and bottom achievers. Test results only show the average of two disparate groups. Since the US top performers compare favorably with international students, the education system is doing very well with this group. As I explained, the educational system is not equipped to deal with most of the out of school obstacles faced by low achieving, poor minority students.

Exclusive! Pasi Sahlberg on TIMSS and PIRLS (Guest Post by Pasi Sahlberg) | National Education Policy Center

"This week educators around the world got a new opportunity to benchmark their students performance to their international competitors when The International Association for the Evaluation of Educational Achievement (IEA) released the results of TIMSS (Trends in Mathematics and Science Study) mathematics and science of 63 countries and PIRLS (Progress in Reading Literacy Study) in 48 countries. The United States took part in both of these studies that tested how well 4th grade children can read and what 4th and 8th grade students know about mathematics and science in school.
...*But a glance at participating countries national averages reveals some interesting aspects of American students performance in the 2011 TIMSS and PIRLS studies. 4th grade Americans scored high in science and reading and a bit lower in mathematics (7th, 6th and 11th respectively). Ahead were only East Asian countries (South Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong and Japan) and Finland. Americans 4th graders did better than most of their European peers in all tested areas.

Eighth grade American students also did well, hitting 9th in mathematics and 10th in science. Here again, before the U.S. came East Asians, Finns and, perhaps against the odds, Russians. (Ironically, some Asian school systems want to implement aspects of American education because American students are ranked highest in creativity, confidence, and entrepreneurship.) This may seem to some in America as not good enough. But it is good to remember that according to historical data, American education has never been good if the criterion is performance in international studies. IEA has tested students in mathematics and science since the 1960s, the U.S. being one of the permanent participants. Over the half century, as Yong Zhao has concluded, American students performance in international mathematics and science tests has improved from the bottom to above international average. ...
Another interesting revelation in TIMSS 2011 is amazingly high performance of some U.S. states that took part in that study as countries. For example, 4th grade pupils in Florida performed above Canadian provinces of Alberta, Ontario and Quebec in reading, science and mathematics and were on par with Finland, except in science. Furthermore, 8th grade students in Massachusetts, Minnesota and Colorado were better than high performing Hong Kong in science. If Massachusetts, Minnesota, North Carolina, Indiana and Colorado were countries, they would all fit into top ten in 8th grade mathematics."

American students scores are not at the top, but there has been improvement.
If you believe our students are doing more poorly now, you will probably be interested in these specific TIMSS scores over time:
Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) - Mathematics Achievement of Fourth- and Eighth-Graders in 2011

"Compared with 1995, the U.S. average mathematics score at grade 4 was 23 score points higher in 2011 (541 v. 518)."

"Compared with 2007, the U.S. average mathematics score at grade 4 was 12 score points higher in 2011 (541 v. 529)."

8th Grade
"Compared with 1995, the U.S. average mathematics score at grade 8 was 17 score points higher in 2011 (509 v. 492)."

"There was no measurable difference between the U.S. average mathematics score at grade 8 in 2007 (508) and in 2011 (509)."


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 10, 2013)

Annika55 said:


> I dont know if Arne Duncan knows best.



dear he has an army of scientists working for him and access to any consultants he wants anywhere on earth and nothing to gain and much to lose  from a failed liberal school system since he is a liberal himself and probably wants to keep his job and reputation. 

Poor U.S. Test Results
Tied To Weak Curriculum

Most of the following was excerpted from a speech by Pascal D. Forgione, Jr., Ph.D. U.S. Commissioner of Education Statistics.  As a government researcher, he tries to put the best possible spin on the academic failure of American schools, but this is no sugar-coated report.  math scores    science scores


----------



## Samson (Mar 10, 2013)

Oddball said:


> Annika55 said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...



The increasing need (which, although lacks supporting evidence, I'll agree with) for college freshman to take remedial classes is not necessarily a function of poor preparation. It could also be because in the past, every ding-dong that thought they should go to college was not given a government low-interest loan.


----------



## Samson (Mar 10, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Annika55 said:
> 
> 
> > I dont know if Arne Duncan knows best.
> ...



I believe you meant to include some link to the excerpted speech?

At any rate, I'm not sure I agree with the hypothesis that Arnie might have anything to lose from an admission that the "liberal school system" is a failure.

1. Arne runs no school system; There is no such thing at the Federal Level

2. Arne administers Federal programs for which STATES are responisble for implementing

3. Failing State and local educational programs mean they need MORE federal administration.

4. Arne will argue he needs more money to increase federal oversight of state and local school systems.


----------



## freedombecki (Mar 11, 2013)

midcan5 said:


> On USMB the other day a fake commencement address by a right wing talking head is praised as the best ever. Since I know many teachers, and the work they do, and the difficulties they face in a society in which only money and sports are worshipped, I took umbrage with such nonsense.
> 
> My solution to the buffoon's 'libelous'* speech - I am not sure what word to use when someone who earns their living talking shit all day criticizes people who actually contribute to society - was the old fashioned one, a good punch in the mouth followed by a toss off the stage. How else could you rationally debate a total jackass.
> 
> ...


 The teacher is always right? In 50 years, they went from being America's moral compass to ... well, coast to coast, we're seeing a lot of this:

Sex assault by teachers on students an epidemic



> An estimated 5 million students in United States schools have been assaulted sexually by teachers, according to a congressional report


 
The past is nice, midcan, but the present is a nightmare for both students and parents who entrusted their childrens' welfare to people unworthy of the public trust, hired by school districts who failed to screen job candidates out of sheer naivety. That's why thinking parents homeschool children nowadays. Once burned, twice remembered.


----------



## hunarcy (Mar 11, 2013)

hunarcy said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > hunarcy said:
> ...




I'm NOT surprised that Edward could not support his argument and instead chose to keep repeating the same old droning blather.


----------



## Oddball (Mar 11, 2013)

Samson said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > How many Ph.D scientists  does it take to notice the increasing need for college freshmen to take remedial courses, before they move on to the college level stuff?
> ...


The recent increased need for remedial courses for college freshmen is now almost as common knowledge that the sun rises in the east. But, since you asked, here's one source: Report:-Over-a-third-of-students-entering-college - Chicago Sun-Times

That every ding-dong who can get a loan is being admitted to college speaks more to the people taking the money than those spending it.


----------



## midcan5 (Mar 11, 2013)

Samson said:


> midcan5 said:
> 
> 
> > America is becoming stupid because the ideas of fools are taken *serious*,
> ...



When your mind is so limited that it cannot address the issue, a grammatical error becomes the refuge of the trivial person. My meaning was clear, now explain Sarah's since you are a follower of the stupid.


----------



## Unkotare (Mar 11, 2013)

midcan5 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > midcan5 said:
> ...





Don't make excuses for your own errors. You'll never improve that way.


----------



## Oddball (Mar 11, 2013)

80% of students in NYC can't read at grade level.

Officials: NYC High School Students Entering CUNY Need Remedial Help « CBS New York

Who is in charge of edumacation in general and in NYC in particular?...The same lolberal moonbat snob shitheels like the OP, that's who.

And you have the gall to call anyone else stupid.


----------



## Annika55 (Mar 11, 2013)

Oddball said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...




Like most issues in education, the topic of students' needing remedial college classes is not as simple as some might assume.

Consider the growth in college enrollment:
"Enrollment in degree-granting institutions increased by 11 percent between 1990 and 2000. Between 2000 and 2010, enrollment increased 37 percent, from 15.3 million to 21.0 million. Much of the growth between 2000 and 2010 was in full-time enrollment; the number of full-time students rose 45 percent, while the number of part-time students rose 26 percent. During the same time period, the number of females rose 39 percent, while the number of males rose 35 percent."
Source:*Digest of Education Statistics, 2011 - Chapter 3: Postsecondary Education
Obviously, when about a third more students are enrolled, one can assume that more lower achieving students are also enrolling. This would be especially true during a time when younger people and minorities are unemployed at higher proportions than in the general population.
Since jobs are so scarce, many unemployed *people who might not have gone to college are now choosing to improve their chances of finding a job. The availability of Pell grants and other student aid also makes the return to college even more appealing today.

It is also important to look at who needs remediation most:
*"While most four-year private and public universities offer remediation, the bulk of remedial work is done by community colleges, whose doors are open to anyone with a high school diploma or GED."
Report:-Over-a-third-of-students-entering-college - Chicago Sun-Times

Unlike 25 years ago, students today *know that there are fewer manual labor/unskilled jobs available. Since education beyond HS *is necessary for most *jobs today, more students who might have previously found jobs right out of HS *are now*entering 2 and 4 year colleges.

Students believe they are doing well in HS when they earn B's and C's.*Report:-Over-a-third-of-students-entering-college - Chicago Sun-Times
In reality, those grades now mean mediocre achievement.
I began teaching in 1968 and ended my career in 2002. I absolutely saw grade inflation over those years. The C grade that was "average" became a B.*Parents demanded extra credit opportunities to raise grades and administrators did not always support teachers who were "tough graders." School administrators would create charts to compare teacher grades, and those whose grades were lower than others in the department were "told" to raise their scores. Poor student grades were said to represent teacher failure. Teachers were seriously "counseled" when they gave too many D's and E's.

I think the high stakes testing in HS also may contribute to the problem. Teachers may focus on test taking skills and test-oriented content while spending less time developing analytical and writing skills. As teachers and students spend more time on testing priorities (since teacher evaluations and job security are tied to test scores), there may be less focus on time-consuming critical writing assignments.

There may be a gap between HS and college curricula, particularly as classroom content may change to match up with test demands.
"High school teachers and administrators are either unaware of what is expected in college, or unable to align their curricula with college prep because the material on standardized tests does not match material colleges are looking for students to know. Colleges also use a variety of placement tests, which adds to the confusion over what students need to know."
Report:-Over-a-third-of-students-entering-college - Chicago Sun-Times

I believe that in the past, *4 year colleges did not offer remedial courses and students just dropped out if their skills were not adequate for college work.*
Today, with the much higher cost of college tuition, there is also a financial incentive for colleges to do placement testing and maximize the number of students who have to pay for remedial classes.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 11, 2013)

too stupid and 100% liberal!!! As if the Ph.d scientists who do the international student testing and comparisons don't know to take all known variables into account to get accurate comparisons!!!!!


Annika55 said:


> Can you prove your statement regarding scientists taking known variable into account?



its a good assumption given that the smartest people in the world with the most resources in the world, and  with the most to lose from the poor test scores accept that American kids are among the dumbest in the world!!

"The results of an international assessment released earlier this month show the consequences of America's failure to build on what works in education. American students ranked in the middle of countries participating in the Program for International Student Assessment, or PISA. Underlying the results are the stark differences between practices in the top-performing countries and the prevailing approaches to education in the United States"- Randi Weingartner 
(teacher union president)



Annika55 said:


> I dont know if Arne Duncan(Sec of Education) knows best.



dear he has an army of scientists working for him and access to any consultants he wants anywhere on earth and nothing to gain and much to lose from a failed liberal school system since he is a liberal himself and probably wants to keep his job and reputation. 

Poor U.S. Test Results
Tied To Weak Curriculum

Most of the following was excerpted from a speech by Pascal D. Forgione, Jr., Ph.D. U.S. Commissioner of Education Statistics. As a government researcher, he tries to put the best possible spin on the academic failure of American schools, but this is no sugar-coated report. math scores science scores


----------



## Oddball (Mar 11, 2013)

Annika55 said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...



Right...It's all complicated and stuff, so we need the same people who've been fucking up the system for at least the last 50 years to fix it.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 11, 2013)

Oddball said:


> Annika55 said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



yes, in reality American kids score the highest on international tests,  the liberal status quo is what we should protect most, and under no circumstances should a school or business be able to fire someone just because they are failing at their job !!

Statement of Pascal D. Forgione, Jr., Ph.D.,
U.S. Commissioner of Education Statistics
National Center for Education Statistics (NCES)

Today feels like graduation day for all of us who have spent the last few years working on the TIMSS study. The results of schooling in America are now in. Our most significant finding is that U.S. 12th grade students do not do well. When our graduating seniors are compared to the students graduating secondary school in other countries, our students rank near the bottom. This holds true in both science and math, and for both our typical and our top-level students. 
How do we know this? Our 12th graders along with students in their last year of school in more than 20 countries were tested in 1995 as part of the Third International Mathematics and Science Study, better known as TIMSS. The results are included in this report, Pursuing Excellence: A Study of U.S. Twelfth-Grade Mathematics and Science Achievement in International Context. This is the third report from the study. Previous reports covered international comparisons of 4th graders and 8th graders.

In sheer quantitative terms, TIMSS is the world's largest, most comprehensive, and most rigorous international education comparison ever.


----------



## initforme (Mar 11, 2013)

What all of you have purposely forgotten is where the blame really lies, with the parents.   Dumb kids come from Dumb parents.   top that off with america is a country that really doesnt believe that much in education.  In the US eachers are looked upon as "indoctrinators" and "overpaid" and dont deserve what they earn.   What do you expect?  Secondly, you cant build a well working machine with DEFECTIVE parts.   If my kid struggles in school, I have to look no further than in the mirror to discover the problem.  And that folks is purely inarguable.


----------



## Oddball (Mar 11, 2013)

initforme said:


> What all of you have purposely forgotten is where the blame really lies, with the parents.   Dumb kids come from Dumb parents.   top that off with america is a country that really doesnt believe that much in education.  In the US eachers are looked upon as "indoctrinators" and "overpaid" and dont deserve what they earn.   What do you expect?  Secondly, you cant build a well working machine with DEFECTIVE parts.   If my kid struggles in school, I have to look no further than in the mirror to discover the problem.  And that folks is purely inarguable.


Sure...Blame the customer.

American kids are  forcibly (in many cases) institutionalized for 13+ years, with the parents completely insulated from any financial burden for the "service" received, and it's all their fault.

Dickweed.

BTW, nice spelling, structure and syntax...You must've been educated in a gubmint school...


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 11, 2013)

initforme said:


> What all of you have purposely forgotten is where the blame really lies, with the parents.



too stupid!! If schools have to succeed despite parents that is what they have to do. THere are many great examples in Harlem for example. The only issue is the resistence faced from liberal unions that want to protect the failed status quo.

Get it now??

See "Waiting for Superman" if you want to see what charter voucher schools can do even in the ghetto  and if you want to see how many ghetto parents desperately want their kids to succeed.


----------



## initforme (Mar 11, 2013)

"Sure...Blame the customer.

American kids are forcibly (in many cases) institutionalized for 13+ years, with the parents completely insulated from any financial burden for the "service" received, and it's all their fault.

Dickweed.

I do in fact blame the customer because when you take a step back and look at america and the ugly nasty rotten rat race it is you see how messed up our culture is.   Call it liberalism, call it whatever but we worship violence, sex, money, greed, and top that off with the fact that many kids come from broken homes you have what you have, a mess.   If you dont like it then its on YOU.  Quit your job and teach your own kid.   I wouldnt be a teacher at those wages to put up with the ilk of the country.   Why anyone does I really dont know.


----------



## initforme (Mar 11, 2013)

I rank waiting with superman with Michael Moore productions.   Just dont buy into them, AT ALL.


----------



## Annika55 (Mar 11, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > Annika55 said:
> ...





I am glad you find the TIMSS an excellent measure for comparing US students to their global peers because you can examine real data from the 2011 tests.

Apparently, in 1995 US students didnt fare well. In fact, US students were at the bottom of international testing when comparisons began in 1960's. Fortunately, great progress has been made.

The grades of US twelfth graders in 1995 are not comparable to international scores because most Asian and European schools divide their students into TWO tracks when they start HS. About half the students go into a vocational/technical track and the top students go into an academic track. The US includes ALL its students in the testing program. In comparison to other countries, the US curriculum has emphasized creative problem solving. While you may find that amusing, it explains why the US is at the forefront in new product and technology innovations. Some Asian countries are trying to incorporate American educational programs into their systems which tend to develop conformity and convergent thinking.

The more recent TIMSS scores show the progress US have made since 1995.

"Exclusive! Pasi Sahlberg on TIMSS and PIRLS (Guest Post by Pasi Sahlberg) | National Education Policy Center

"This week educators around the world got a new opportunity to benchmark their students performance to their international competitors when The International Association for the Evaluation of Educational Achievement (IEA) released the results of TIMSS (Trends in Mathematics and Science Study) mathematics and science of 63 countries and PIRLS (Progress in Reading Literacy Study) in 48 countries. The United States took part in both of these studies that tested how well 4th grade children can read and what 4th and 8th grade students know about mathematics and science in school.
...But a glance at participating countries national averages reveals some interesting aspects of American students performance in the 2011 TIMSS and PIRLS studies. 4th grade Americans scored high in science and reading and a bit lower in mathematics (7th, 6th and 11th respectively). Ahead were only East Asian countries (South Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong and Japan) and Finland.*
American 4th graders did better than most of their European peers in all tested areas."

"In 2011, the average mathematics score of U.S. 4th-graders (541) was higher than the international TIMSS scale average, which is set at 500.

"At grade 4, the United States was among the top 15 education systems in mathematics (8 education systems had higher averages (including *N. Carolina which was scored as a country) and 6 were not measurably different) and (the US) scored higher, on average, than 42 education systems.

The 8 education systems with average mathematics scores above the U.S. score were Singapore, Korea, Hong Kong-CHN, Chinese Taipei-CHN, Japan, Northern Ireland-GBR, North Carolina-USA, and Belgium (Flemish)-BEL."

"The percentage of 4th-graders performing at or above the Advanced international mathematics benchmark in 2011 was higher than in the United States in 7 education systems, was not different in 4 education systems, and was lower than in the United States in 45 education systems."

"Eighth grade American students also did well, hitting 9th in mathematics and 10th in science. Here again, before the U.S. came East Asians, Finns and, perhaps against the odds, Russians.*

"Another interesting revelation in TIMSS 2011 is amazingly high performance of some U.S. states that took part in that study as countries. For example, 4th grade pupils in Florida performed above Canadian provinces of Alberta, Ontario and Quebec in reading, science and mathematics and were on par with Finland, except in science.*

Furthermore, 8th grade students in Massachusetts, Minnesota and Colorado were better than high performing Hong Kong in science. If Massachusetts, Minnesota, North Carolina, Indiana and Colorado were countries, they would all fit into top ten in 8th grade mathematics."

"At grade 8, the United States was among the top 24 education systems in mathematics (11 education systems had higher averages*
( included in the 11 higher averages are the scores from the states of Massachusetts, Minnesota, N. Carolina, and Indiana) and 12 were not measurably different) and scored higher, on average, than 32 education systems.
The 11 education systems with average mathematics scores above the U.S. score were Korea, Singapore, Chinese Taipei, Hong Kong-CHN, Japan, Massachusetts-USA, Minnesota-USA, the Russian Federation, North Carolina-USA, Quebec-CAN, and Indiana-USA."

American students scores are not at the top, but there has been improvement.
If you believe our students are doing more poorly now, you will probably be interested in these specific TIMSS scores over time:

"Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) - Mathematics Achievement of Fourth- and Eighth-Graders in 2011

"Compared with 1995, the U.S. average mathematics score at grade 4 was 23 score points higher in 2011 (541 v. 518)."

"Compared with 2007, the U.S. average mathematics score at grade 4 was 12 score points higher in 2011 (541 v. 529)."

8th Grade
"Compared with 1995, the U.S. average mathematics score at grade 8 was 17 score points higher in 2011 (509 v. 492)."

"There was no measurable difference between the U.S. average mathematics score at grade 8 in 2007 (508) and in 2011 (509)."

Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) - Mathematics Achievement of Fourth- and Eighth-Graders in 2011


----------



## Oddball (Mar 11, 2013)

initforme said:


> I do in fact blame the customer because when you take a step back and look at america and the ugly nasty rotten rat race it is you see how messed up our culture is.   Call it liberalism, call it whatever but we worship violence, sex, money, greed, and top that off with the fact that many kids come from broken homes you have what you have, a mess.   If you dont like it then its on YOU.  *Quit your job and teach your own kid.*   I wouldnt be a teacher at those wages to put up with the ilk of the country.   Why anyone does I really dont know.


A lot of people have taken to educating their own kids (ever heard of home schooling?)...Only to then be run into the ground by  hand wringing, blame-the-customer, illiterate, we're-all-victims-of-society dickweeds like you.

Grow the hell up.


----------



## Annika55 (Mar 11, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> initforme said:
> 
> 
> > What all of you have purposely forgotten is where the blame really lies, with the parents.
> ...



A Review of WAITING FOR SUPERMAN
The Myth of Charter Schools by Diane Ravitch | The New York Review of Books

"Some fact-checking is in order, and the place to start is with the films quiet acknowledgment that only one in five charter schools is able to get the amazing results that it celebrates. Nothing more is said about this astonishing statistic. It is drawn from a national study of charter schools by Stanford economist Margaret Raymond (the wife of Hanushek). Known as the CREDO study, it evaluated student progress on math tests in half the nations five thousand charter schools and concluded that 17 percent were superior to a matched traditional public school; 37 percent were worse than the public school; and the remaining 46 percent had academic gains no different from that of a similar public school. The proportion of charters that get amazing results is far smaller than 17 percent.Why did Davis Guggenheim pay no attention to the charter schools that are run by incompetent leaders or corporations mainly concerned to make money? Why propound to an unknowing public the myth that charter schools are the answer to our educational woes, when the filmmaker knows that there are twice as many failing charters as there are successful ones? Why not give an honest accounting?
The propagandistic nature of Waiting for Superman is revealed by Guggenheims complete indifference to the wide variation among charter schools. There are excellent charter schools, just as there are excellent public schools. Why did he not also inquire into the charter chains that are mired in unsavory real estate deals, or take his camera to the charters where most students are getting lower scores than those in the neighborhood public schools? Why did he not report on the charter principals who have been indicted for embezzlement, or the charters that blur the line between church and state? Why did he not look into the charter schools whose leaders are paid $300,000$400,000 a year to oversee small numbers of schools and students?

Guggenheim seems to believe that teachers alone can overcome the effects of student poverty, even though there are countless studies that demonstrate the link between income and test scores. He shows us footage of the pilot Chuck Yeager breaking the sound barrier, to the amazement of people who said it couldnt be done. Since Yeager broke the sound barrier, we should be prepared to believe that able teachers are all it takes to overcome the disadvantages of poverty, homelessness, joblessness, poor nutrition, absent parents, etc.
The movie asserts a central thesis in todays school reform discussion: the idea that teachers are the most important factor determining student achievement. But this proposition is false. Hanushek has released studies showing that teacher quality accounts for about 7.510 percent of student test score gains. Several other high-quality analyses echo this finding, and while estimates vary a bit, there is a relative consensus: teachers statistically account for around 1020 percent of achievement outcomes. Teachers are the most important factor within schools.

But the same body of research shows that nonschool factors matter even more than teachers. According to University of Washington economist Dan Goldhaber, about 60 percent of achievement is explained by nonschool factors, such as family income. So while teachers are the most important factor within schools, their effects pale in comparison with those of students backgrounds, families, and other factors beyond the control of schools and teachers. Teachers can have a profound effect on students, but it would be foolish to believe that teachers alone can undo the damage caused by poverty and its associated burdens....
Guggenheim didnt bother to take a close look at the heroes of his documentary. Geoffrey Canada is justly celebrated for the creation of the Harlem Childrens Zone, which not only runs two charter schools but surrounds children and their families with a broad array of social and medical services. Canada has a board of wealthy philanthropists and a very successful fund-raising apparatus. With assets of more than $200 million, his organization has no shortage of funds. Canada himself is currently paid $400,000 annually. For Guggenheim to praise Canada while also claiming that public schools dont need any more money is bizarre. Canadas charter schools get better results than nearby public schools serving impoverished students. If all inner-city schools had the same resources as his, they might get the same good results.

But contrary to the myth that Guggenheim propounds about amazing results, even Geoffrey Canadas schools have many students who are not proficient. On the 2010 state tests, 60 percent of the fourth-grade students in one of his charter schools were not proficient in reading, nor were 50 percent in the other. It should be notedand Guggenheim didnt note itthat Canada kicked out his entire first class of middle school students when they didnt get good enough test scores to satisfy his board of trustees. This sad event was documented by Paul Tough in his laudatory account of Canadas Harlem Childrens Zone, Whatever It Takes (2009). Contrary to Guggenheims mythology, even the best-funded charters, with the finest services, cant completely negate the effects of poverty.

Guggenheim ignored other clues that might have gotten in the way of a good story. While blasting the teachers unions, he points to Finland as a nation whose educational system the US should emulate, not bothering to explain that it has a completely unionized teaching force. His documentary showers praise on testing and accountability, yet he does not acknowledge that Finland seldom tests its students. Any Finnish educator will say that Finland improved its public education system not by privatizing its schools or constantly testing its students, but by investing in the preparation, support, and retention of excellent teachers. It achieved its present eminence not by systematically firing 510 percent of its teachers, but by patiently building for the future. Finland has a national curriculum, which is not restricted to the basic skills of reading and math, but includes the arts, sciences, history, foreign languages, and other subjects that are essential to a good, rounded education. Finland also strengthened its social welfare programs for children and families. Guggenheim simply ignores the realities of the Finnish system."


----------



## initforme (Mar 12, 2013)

"?)...Only to then be run into the ground by hand wringing, blame-the-customer, illiterate, we're-all-victims-of-society dickweeds like you."

Whose running you into the ground?   I'm not saying its a bad thing.  You can either whine about it or homeschool your own kid.   Facts are its really hard to fix kids that are all messed up because of their home lives.   If you cant see this then thats fine.  Thank goodness not everyone sees the world through one set of eyes.  My kids had a great education in a small rural public school.  They all went on to get college degrees and have good jobs...I cant complain.   Their teachers were top notch.  As far as illiterate, far from it.   Got my college degree.   Its the one thing that helped enable me not to have to work for slave wages for some dingy little business.  To heck with that.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 12, 2013)

initforme said:


> I rank waiting with superman with Michael Moore productions.   Just dont buy into them, AT ALL.



charter/voucher/private schools and teachers exist only to the extent they succeed, much like capitalist businesses.

Therefore, they are superior to soviet liberal government monopoly schools.

A child can understand this, just not a liberal.


----------



## initforme (Mar 12, 2013)

I'm fine with vouchers, charters, etc.  The one stipulation that is a MUST is that if a problem, disruptive student applies to those schools
1)  they must be accepted
2)  they cannot be removed from the educational setting if they create a disturbance to the learning environment

after that, I'm in full support


----------



## Oddball (Mar 12, 2013)

initforme said:


> I'm fine with vouchers, charters, etc.  The one stipulation that is a MUST is that if a problem, disruptive student applies to those schools
> 1)  they must be accepted
> 2)  they cannot be removed from the educational setting if they create a disturbance to the learning environment
> 
> after that, I'm in full support


Fuck that shit.

Disruptive punks go to military school or juvie.

Schools aren't behavioral rehab centers for sociopaths.


----------



## initforme (Mar 12, 2013)

"Fuck that shit.

Disruptive punks go to military school or juvie.

Schools aren't behavioral rehab centers for sociopaths. "

thanks.  You just showed where public schools are.  Right now where my daughter teaches she HAS to work with those types of kids who basically dont care one iota about giving an ounce of effort toward loearning.  Yet she is working her butt off to try and find ways to help them succeed.  Some here believe its her fault.  Yeah, sure.   Thats hilarious. Jerks.
__________________


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 12, 2013)

initforme said:


> I'm fine with vouchers, charters, etc.  The one stipulation that is a MUST is that if a problem, disruptive student applies to those schools
> 1)  they must be accepted
> 2)  they cannot be removed from the educational setting if they create a disturbance to the learning environment
> 
> after that, I'm in full support



too stupid!! Obviously you want all in a class on the same level to the extend possible to acheive any sort of efficiency. Kids that don't fit in must be removed and put where they do fit in. THere is no objection to an entire charter school for such kids!


----------



## Annika55 (Mar 13, 2013)

Oddball said:


> Annika55 said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



Of course it is complicated. The situation in Detroit is a perfect example to examine. Detroit students' performance is appalling.
Adjacent to Detroit are the affluent Grosse Pointes. Their students have the same liberal teachers who are also members of unions. But Grosse Pointe N. students score at the top on all measures. The same is true for many affluent, suburban students in districts within 20 miles of Detroit like Bloomfield Hills, Birmingham and Troy where the students are exceptional performers and over 90% go on to good colleges. Their teachers have training and education similar to Detroit teachers and they also belong to unions.

It seems ridiculous to blame teachers or unions for Detroit school failures unless total credit is given to the teachers and unions where student achievement is consistently outstanding. 
On the other hand, Inkster, and Romulus districts are almost as bad as Detroit. Their schools happen to serve poor, minority students. The same situations exist when comparing affluent suburban and nearby inner city schools around the nation. Students in the affluent schools perform at the top while their impoverished urban counterparts struggle. There is a 
similar chasm when comparing economically disadvantaged rural students with more financially secure groups.*
Teachers simply cannot overcome economic, environmental, familial, and cultural barriers to education.
Many inner city HS teachers see over 150 students a day. A teacher can't protect students from crime and violence in the community. A teacher can't keep students home at night. A teacher can't protect students from the threats and recruiting of local gangs. A teacher can't prevent students from abusing drugs and alcohol or protect students from peer pressure. A teacher can't provide a safe, quiet place to study. A teacher can't provide school supplies, books, magazines, and the latest technology for every student. A teacher can't monitor whether or not students do assignments and study. A teacher can't 
prevents students from moving and attending different schools every few months. A teacher can't provide students with time to do schoolwork when their time is spent working or caring for siblings. A teacher can't make sure every student has nutritious food to eat. A teacher can't be responsible for students who only attend school sporadically. A teacher can't protect students from parental absence, neglect or abuse. A teacher isn't responsibles for teens who become pregnant. A teacher can't take all of her students to plays, museums, art galleries, and the ballet.
Yes, education problem ARE complex, and, unfortunately, teachers did not create nor can they solve the problems associated with poverty.
I wish charter schools were the answer. But when 5000 schools were matched in the CREDO research, "17 percent had 
students who did better on the whole than their public school twins, in 37 percent they did worse, and in 46 percent there was no statistical difference."
A new look at the CREDO charter school study - The Answer Sheet - The Washington Post
The Rand studies on charter schools similarly concluded,
"in a majority of cases, the gains of students attending charter schools are small or non-existent. In these cases the gains of students attending charter schools are on par with the gains these same students experienced in TPS's
(traditional public schools)."
http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monographs/2009/RAND_MG869.pdf


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 13, 2013)

Annika55 said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > Annika55 said:
> ...



Dear, the charter movement provides for very dynamic capitalism, i.e., success is immediately rewarded, failure is immediately punished, and experimentation is constant in order to start a slow  upward evolution in school quality.

It is no surprise that a soviet government  monopoly turns out about the dumbest kids in the civilized world. How could it possibly compete??

Your radical conservative attempts to defend a badly failed status are pathetic. Do want to bring back the horse and buggy too???


----------



## Annika55 (Mar 13, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Annika55 said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



I have clearly said there are many school districts that have OUTSTANDING student achievement. There is no reason to 
change what they are doing. 
I think poorly performing schools are not meeting student needs. Offering students who may not find college prep classes relevant a strong vocational tech track might be a good idea.

 As for "communist" performance, note the Russian Federation TIMSS scores:

Korea and Singapore were the top performers in fourth-grade science, followed by Finland, Japan, *the Russian 
Federation*, Chinese Taipei and the United States. The US state of Florida also had high achievement, though not as high as the top seven. 

Singapore was the highest achiever in science at the eighth grade, followed by Chinese Taipei, Korea and Japan. Finland, Slovenia, *the Russian Federation*, Hong Kong, and England also performed well. *In addition, Massachusetts had achievement higher than all countries except Singapore.*

The top-performing countries in fourth grade reading were Hong Kong, the *Russian Federation*, Finland and Singapore. Northern Ireland, *the United States*, Denmark, Croatia, and Chinese Taipei also had higher achievement than the majority of other participants. In addition, Florida and the Canadian province of Ontario were among the highest 
achieving participants.

http://www.bc.edu/content/bc/office...PIRLS_results_released_by_BC_researchers.html


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 13, 2013)

Annika55 said:


> I have clearly said there are many school districts that have OUTSTANDING student achievement. There is no reason to
> change what they are doing.



a liberal will lack the IQ to understand capitalism. Everything is relative. They may be doing outstanding or not. There is no way of knowing until they are in a competitive environment. Soviets thought there cars were competitive when you had to use dip stick to check gasoline tank level and back up hill to feed gravity fed carburetor.


----------



## JoeNormal (Mar 15, 2013)

midcan5 said:


> On USMB the other day a fake commencement address by a right wing talking head is praised as the best ever. Since I know many teachers, and the work they do, and the difficulties they face in a society in which only money and sports are worshipped, I took umbrage with such nonsense.
> 
> My solution to the buffoon's 'libelous'* speech - I am not sure what word to use when someone who earns their living talking shit all day criticizes people who actually contribute to society - was the old fashioned one, a good punch in the mouth followed by a toss off the stage. How else could you rationally debate a total jackass.
> 
> ...



Excellent post.  My only disagreement is in your saying that the Kochs, Murdoch et al are stupid.  They aren't.  But they realize the value in being able to manipulate the stupid multitudes and have refined to the point of a science the ability to pull their strings.  Combine that with an unhealthy dose of American exceptionalism and phoney patriotism and you have the country going down in flames as we see today.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 15, 2013)

midcan5 said:


> or consider Rush Limbaugh's nonsense, then there is Coulter, Savage, Beck, Hannity, et al, can anyone think of dumber media personalities?.



if the are dumb then Aristotle and our founders must be dumb too since all believe/believed  deeply in freedom from liberal government.

See why we are positive a liberal will be slow, so very very slow!!


----------



## initforme (Mar 19, 2013)

Competition isnt a bad thing at all.   But if you go the charter route then a very good competitive school MUST accept any applicant.  You have NO other choice.   As for problem kids, they must all be given a chance to succeed and if it requires going to a so called high performing school and the schools test scores collectively go down then so be it.   Cant have it both ways.   Many here offer problems but I have yet to read ONE solution.   You want charter schools thats fine with me.  I have zero problem with it.  But you dang well better ensure that problematic disruptive students are given every chance to succeed or you should be shut down and shunned in the educational setting


----------



## regent (Mar 19, 2013)

initforme said:


> Competition isnt a bad thing at all.   But if you go the charter route then a very good competitive school MUST accept any applicant.  You have NO other choice.   As for problem kids, they must all be given a chance to succeed and if it requires going to a so called high performing school and the schools test scores collectively go down then so be it.   Cant have it both ways.   Many here offer problems but I have yet to read ONE solution.   You want charter schools thats fine with me.  I have zero problem with it.  But you dang well better ensure that problematic disruptive students are given every chance to succeed or you should be shut down and shunned in the educational setting



At one time schools had an answer to education-let the erring sisters go. Those students that were not comfortable with schools, education and all that simply left school, dropouts. Then in the early Forties communities got concerned all these kids hanging around the streets and a new term came into vogue, juvenile delinquency. Keep em in school became the battle cry, so schools, ruled by local school boards did just that, made changes, not necessarily a better education, but easier, social promotion came on the scene, easier tests, more social programs, now it was do anything to keep kids from dropping. We must remember that for every student with an IQ over 100, there is another under 100. For that student under 100, school can be an unpleasant experience. 
My high school had a 75% dropout rate, but the students that did graduate were reasonably well versed in many subjects, and a percentage even went on to college. 
It was assumed at that time that the minimum IQ to handle college work was 120. What percent of the population would that be?


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 20, 2013)

initforme said:


> You want charter schools thats fine with me.  I have zero problem with it.  But you dang well better ensure that problematic disruptive students are given every chance to succeed or you should be shut down and shunned in the educational setting



dear the beauty of voucher/charter Republican schools is they are free to cater to and develop expertise with students of any kind. If 50% of the kids out there have lower than average IQ's a charter school can form just for them, much the way Toyota Scion was formed to build cheap Toyotas or Rolls Royce was formed to cater to the filty rich.


----------



## initforme (Mar 20, 2013)

" If 50% of the kids out there have lower than average IQ's a charter school can form just for them, much the way Toyota Scion was formed to build cheap Toyotas or Rolls Royce was formed to cater to the filty rich."

But the expectations for those kids MUST be post HS education otherwise they are faced with working for lower wages than other students.   this in turn leads to their being taken advantage of by employers who seek to get the most out of them for the least amount of pay.   Scary thought.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 21, 2013)

initforme said:


> "
> But the expectations for those kids MUST be post HS education otherwise .



well obviously paying parents would be free to sent their kids to the school that prepared them best for post HS


----------

