# What is a moderate muslim?



## syrenn (Feb 19, 2012)

I see this term bandied about, but what is it really? 

On the muslim scale of  1 &#8211; 10 with 1 being your live and let live, peaceful, and allowing women equal rights muslim. 10 being your average burka enforcing al-quaeda bombing and killing everything non muslim in site.  Is not everything that comes in the middle of that&#8230; moderate? 

I would like to know what is &#8220;moderate?  What do moderates think, say, act. 

What is moderate in western terms and what is moderate in muslim terms? I am sure they are VERY different definitions of the where &#8220;moderate&#8221; falls.


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## Ropey (Feb 19, 2012)

I know that moderates do not advocate genocide even in discussion.


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## Si modo (Feb 19, 2012)

Not a Muslim?


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## Caroljo (Feb 19, 2012)

syrenn said:


> I see this term bandies about, but what is it really?
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> On the muslim scale of  1  10 with 1 being your live and let live, peaceful, and allowing women equal rights muslim. 10 being your average burka enforcing al-quaeda bombing and killing everything non muslim in site.  Is not everything that comes in the middle of that moderate?
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They kill in "moderation"???


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## Jroc (Feb 19, 2012)

syrenn said:


> I see this term bandies about, but what is it really?
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> On the muslim scale of  1  10 with 1 being your live and let live, peaceful, and allowing women equal rights muslim. 10 being your average burka enforcing al-quaeda bombing and killing everything non muslim in site.  Is not everything that comes in the middle of that moderate?
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"Moderate"? Who knows.. I can't even tell you what a moderate Republican really is, but a muslim patriot...here is the answer

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P35E31THd8]Zuhdi Jasser - Oslo Freedom Forum 2010 - YouTube[/ame]


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## eots (Feb 19, 2012)

syrenn said:


> I see this term bandies about, but what is it really?
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> On the muslim scale of  1 &#8211; 10 with 1 being your live and let live, peaceful, and allowing women equal rights muslim. 10 being your average burka enforcing al-quaeda bombing and killing everything non muslim in site.  Is not everything that comes in the middle of that&#8230; moderate?
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I  dont think its much different than any other religion if it is taken literally always and followed to the letter all major religions are full of violence , slaying of the "bad guys" and with woman in a secondary role


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## Si modo (Feb 19, 2012)

Jroc said:


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I wonder how many fatwas there are for this guy's head.

Great find.


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## Ropey (Feb 19, 2012)

Si modo said:


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He's likely quite well protected.


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## manifold (Feb 19, 2012)

A moderate Muslim is one who keeps his mouth shut biding his time.


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## Cuyo (Feb 19, 2012)

syrenn said:


> I see this term bandies about, but what is it really?
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> On the muslim scale of  1  10 with 1 being your live and let live, peaceful, and allowing women equal rights muslim. 10 being your average burka enforcing al-quaeda bombing and killing everything non muslim in site.  Is not everything that comes in the middle of that moderate?
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Your 1-10 scale seems to insinuate that a more devout Muslim is automatically a more militant/jihadist Muslim, and I don't think that's the case.


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## Ernie S. (Feb 19, 2012)

Cuyo said:


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You're probably right. I suppose there are many not so devout Muslim terrorists.
How about taking a stab at defining a moderate Muslim, then.


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## eots (Feb 19, 2012)

I worked on a farm run by a muslim family..one day the old guy 80 and still working in the fields... explained to me in his culture 2 woman leave the field a hour early and prepare the dinner...while the men finish off the loading and paper work...he had a grand daughter she was only 5 and she loved doing the count  putting a line for each box of produce loaded,she would sit on grampas lap while he drove the little tractor with a fork lift and knew how to raise and lower the forks up ,all the workers where paid cash daily and her favorite part of all was handing on the cash because it made everyone happy..So I replied to his comment by saying...I really dont think Nadia his {grand-daughter} will be content with leaving the field an hour earlier to make dinner for the men...I think she will be running the show...he laughed and nodded his head  and said, yes this is true isn't it, even in my culture things are changing...


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## Outback (Feb 19, 2012)

eots said:


> I worked on a farm run by a muslim family..one day the old guy 80 and still working in the fields... explained to men his culture 2 woman leave the field a hour early and prepare the dinner...while the men finish off the loading and paper work...he had a grand daughter she was only 5 and she loved doing the count  putting a line for each box of produce loaded,she would sit on grampas lap while he drove the little tractor with a fork lift and knew how to raise and lower the forks up ,all the workers where paid cash daily and her favorite part of all was handing on the cash because it made everyone happy..So I replied to his comment by saying...I really dont think Nadia his {grand-daughter} will be content with leaving the field an hour earlier to make dinner for the men...I think she will running the show...he laughed and shook his said and said yes this true isn't even in my culture things are changing...



Did you ever hear him or them attempt to discuss and advocate genocide?


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## Cuyo (Feb 19, 2012)

Ernie S. said:


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I imagine there's lots of them, my old friend Ahmed for example.  He observes Islam, prays towards Mecca, etc. But I don't think he attended services regularly, I know he had sex - and a baby - out of wedlock.  

Ya know, just a normal guy, who was also Muslim.

But the scale of 1-10 where 1 is "Barely Muslim" and 10 is "Terrorist" is B.S.  Level of devotion to the identity is not inherently tied to militant-ism.


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## eots (Feb 19, 2012)

Outback said:


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> > I worked on a farm run by a muslim family..one day the old guy 80 and still working in the fields... explained to men his culture 2 woman leave the field a hour early and prepare the dinner...while the men finish off the loading and paper work...he had a grand daughter she was only 5 and she loved doing the count  putting a line for each box of produce loaded,she would sit on grampas lap while he drove the little tractor with a fork lift and knew how to raise and lower the forks up ,all the workers where paid cash daily and her favorite part of all was handing on the cash because it made everyone happy..So I replied to his comment by saying...I really dont think Nadia his {grand-daughter} will be content with leaving the field an hour earlier to make dinner for the men...I think she will running the show...he laughed and shook his said and said yes this true isn't even in my culture things are changing...
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No never and we would talk for hours ..he was a very caring and kind man ..he was ultimately the boss of the field and his family but he was very patient and kind to his adult children and grand children and workers


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 19, 2012)

Ropey said:


> I know that moderates do not advocate genocide even in discussion.



The Moderates are content to breed us out of existence.


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## Ropey (Feb 19, 2012)

RetiredGySgt said:


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Moderates do not request discussions to legitimize genocide. That's clear to me and I know people who say it would not bother them if all Muslims were killed outright. That's not moderate either. 

Now there's a self-proclaimed moderate here who advocates the end of Israel and a mass move of the worlds Jewish people to an island to be kept from humanity by force of arms patrolling the island.

That's not moderation to my view. Regardless of the belief behind the mind that wishes to discuss and legitimize the genocide.


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## syrenn (Feb 19, 2012)

Cuyo said:


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Then give us your scale of a muslim view of 1-10

after all... i am asking ya know.


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 19, 2012)

syrenn said:


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All devout Muslims want all non Muslims to convert or die. The moderates are simply content to do so through out breeding the infidel.


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## syrenn (Feb 19, 2012)

Cuyo said:


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That is not what i said.


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## syrenn (Feb 19, 2012)

RetiredGySgt said:


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So a moderate muslim would be someone who would have no issue saying or calling for he death of anyone and anything non muslim.... just not the one who does the deed shall we say. 

That is in the middle of my scale of 1-10.


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## techieny (Feb 19, 2012)

One that get's the idea of religious freedom.  A non zealot. A person that feels...FEELS for others that are different than them. Perhaps owns a gas station or convenience store near a large population. One that always asks the question. What are the batteries for?


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## Ropey (Feb 19, 2012)

syrenn said:


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Not mine.  If someone is calling to discuss murder, they are not moderate.  Yes, they have not killed.

But they are attempting to accelerate the idea of killing and that's just not moderate to me.  When it becomes genocide they are attempting to accelerate as an idea, then it's not in the middle for me.


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## skipper (Feb 19, 2012)

*What is a moderate muslim? *

Probably a good example would be the majority of the young population of Iran which we got a glimpse of before their protests was squashed by the extremist.


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## Katzndogz (Feb 19, 2012)

Ropey said:


> I know that moderates do not advocate genocide even in discussion.



The moderate muslim would not kill someome for allah themselves.  They understand and support those who do.


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## Ropey (Feb 19, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


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Are you saying a moderate can call for the death of others and since they do not do it they are moderate?


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 19, 2012)

syrenn said:


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NO, a Moderate would not actually call for Jihad or to kill anyone, they take the long view, win through breeding and attrition. Not through murder and mayhem


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## Ropey (Feb 19, 2012)

RetiredGySgt said:


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For purposes of clarification RGS, would they call to discuss genocide?


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## Cuyo (Feb 19, 2012)

syrenn said:


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No, not in so many words.  But the way you phrased the question could be interpreted to suggest such.  After all, you did say "Moderate Muslim," and not "Moderate Terrorist" or "Moderate Jihadist," and either of the latter would have better framed the question... That is, unless you* do* mean to say that level of devoutness is analgous to level of militantism. 

Do you agree that there's no ceiling on level of devoutness sans militantism?


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 19, 2012)

Ropey said:


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Not sure what you mean? They won't generally, openly, oppose murder and mayhem because that might get them killed. They would prefer that until such time as Muslims have such a superior position that it can not be assailed that war and terrorism not be employed except in dire circumstances. For the supposed moderates the current terrorism and wars cause losses they feel are unacceptable and may wake the infidels up to the real threat, what is happening in Europe for Example, France and Germany have major problems with Muslim immigrants and in Sweden the Government has abandoned  areas of some cities because of Muslim street violence to non Muslims.


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## Ropey (Feb 19, 2012)

RetiredGySgt said:


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I'm not talking about Muslims. I'm talking about moderates.   Rather than pull Muslims out of the humanity mix (like Sunni Man wishes to do with worldwide Jewry) I put them back into humanity and decry extremist thinking.

Those who have moderate souls do not discuss the wholesale genocide of a people. They do not even begin discussion on such a thing although moderates will come and discuss their distaste for such things.

My view.


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## percysunshine (Feb 19, 2012)

syrenn said:


> I see this term bandied about, but what is it really?
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> On the muslim scale of  1  10 with 1 being your live and let live, peaceful, and allowing women equal rights muslim. 10 being your average burka enforcing al-quaeda bombing and killing everything non muslim in site.  Is not everything that comes in the middle of that moderate?
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5 ?

Half way between Victorias Secret and chemical warfare garb.


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 19, 2012)

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By your definition NO DEVOUT Muslim is moderate. They all support an eventual world where ONLY Muslims exist.


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## Ropey (Feb 19, 2012)

RetiredGySgt said:


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I disagree.


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 19, 2012)

Ropey said:


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Learn what the religion TEACHES. It is a REQUIREMENT of the faith that eventually the entire world be Muslim. No Muslim that believes the faith and is devout believes otherwise, they only differ on how to reach the goal.


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## syrenn (Feb 19, 2012)

skipper said:


> *What is a moderate muslim? *
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> Probably a good example would be the majority of the young population of Iran which we got a glimpse of before their protests was squashed by the extremist.




You mean rather like the Egyptians? Are you sure they are moderate....or just wanted out from under a dictator? The iriands wanted out from under the shaw.. and a shira state. They got one.


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## syrenn (Feb 19, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


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That is what i am thinking as well.


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## IndependntLogic (Feb 19, 2012)

syrenn said:


> I see this term bandied about, but what is it really?
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> On the muslim scale of  1  10 with 1 being your live and let live, peaceful, and allowing women equal rights muslim. 10 being your average burka enforcing al-quaeda bombing and killing everything non muslim in site.  Is not everything that comes in the middle of that moderate?
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We have some Muslim friends. Some are more strict than others. None believe there is adequate religious reason to kill someone. One couple goes out for a beer and pool with us once in a while. 
There are a lot of verses in the Bible that justify violence, mistreatment of women, taking over the world etc... Just as there are verses in the Qu Ran.
But the Qu Ran says some things that The Bible does not. While the Bible is often used to teach intolerance and danmation of other religions, the Qu Ran specifically says "Respect and revere the devout Christian and the Jew". So there's one up on the Bible.
It also says "He who kills a single innocent, it would be as if he killed 1,000 but he who saves the life of a single innocent, it would be as if he saved the whole world."
or pretty close to thatm anyway. Been a long time since college. 

So Moderate Muslims? Same as moderate Christians, Jews or whatever...


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## syrenn (Feb 19, 2012)

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I dont think so... terrorist and jihadist are the far end of the scale, a 10, but still fall under muslim.  

It is a simple question... what is a moderate muslim? I gave a scale. 

I have no idea what a muslim would consider moderate.


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## Ropey (Feb 19, 2012)

syrenn said:


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Moderates do not support killing by anyone.  Sheesh!  They are against the death penalty.  Moderate...


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## Provocateur (Feb 19, 2012)

I don't think that Allah wasn't praised by all Muslims on 9/11. 

They are believers in the Koran, and the stated outcomes found in the Koran.


I don't fault them for their conviction.  



People are pretty stupid to not appreciate their conviction, however.


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## eots (Feb 19, 2012)

RetiredGySgt said:


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what do Mormons believe is the fate of other faiths ?


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## Provocateur (Feb 19, 2012)

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If you asked, they would tell you that that characterization doesn't exist.


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 19, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


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Except for one small problem...... Infidels are by definition NOT innocent. And be so kind as to quote for us a single major world leader of Islam that supports the teaching on devout Christians and Jews?


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## eots (Feb 19, 2012)

RetiredGySgt said:


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so whats happens to most of humanity in revelations ?


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## Provocateur (Feb 19, 2012)

RetiredGySgt said:


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Hippies don't believe you.


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 19, 2012)

eots said:


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Big ass difference. NOT one single belief of Mormons concerns US making the world only Mormon, No commandments to kill the infidel, no commandment to kill unbelievers, no commandment to kill those that renounce the faith. No commandment to convert OR kill anyone. Just as all Christian faiths God commands we go forth and preach his word so that others may be saved. BUT we do not, nor does the bible, Jesus or God, condone murder, forced conversion or poor treatment of those that do not convert.

BIG ASS RED HERRING. Or would you prefer strawman?


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 19, 2012)

eots said:


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Once again with the STRAWMAN argument. God sends Jesus to destroy Lucifer and his army of followers. Or can you provide for us in the New testament or the Book of Mormon a commandment that MAN cleanse the world of Satan? That man wage war on unbelievers and kill them or force their conversion? That those that leave the faith be killed?


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## Cuyo (Feb 19, 2012)

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I don't know if you're misunderstanding my question or dodging it intentionally.

Put simply; Do you believe the most devout Muslims are always the most militant?  Or are we talking about two different sliding scales here?


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 19, 2012)

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One can be devout and not advocate murder and mayhem right now and maybe not for hundreds of years. But in the end their faith commands them to make all mankind subservient to Allah BY their actions. Not by Allah's.


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## eots (Feb 19, 2012)

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Islam

Main articles: Islamic eschatology and Qiyamah
There are various signs (as many as up to 100) given in the Sunnah and Quran for the coming of Judgment Day. These signs can be divided into two parts, minor and major. The major signs include
And you will see people entering religion of God in crowds. (Qur'an Surat an-Nasr, 1-2)
the coming of the one-eyed Dajjal (Evil Antichrist), Imam Mahdi and then Prophet Jesus (who will combine forces of good, against evil), (Qur'an 43:61)
the blowing of Trumpet and the minor signs will precede them.
the Earth will experience an earthquake that will cause mountains to crash down. The Earth's inner body will break out, and the Earth will be stretched out.99:1, 69:13-14, 70:8, 84:3-4, 20:105-107, 99:1-6.
Earthquakes from the East, the West, and one in the Arabian Peninsula
Gog (yahjuj) & Magog (mahjuj) will be released and will destroy the crops, animals, water and kill everything.
Smoke will spread and cause non-believers to fall ill whereas the believers will catch a mere cold. Later, Allah will send a cool wind, taking life (gently) from all of the believers, leaving only the Kufaars (unbelievers) to see the last day till the Day Of Judgment will arrive.
End time - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Provocateur (Feb 19, 2012)

RetiredGySgt said:


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Nearly all conflict in the world right now is a result of Islamic beliefs.


List of ongoing military conflicts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## eots (Feb 19, 2012)

And it shall come to pass, because of the wickedness of the world, that I will take avengeance upon the wicked, for they will not repent; for the cup of mine indignation is full; for behold, my blood shall not cleanse them if they hear me not.


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## eots (Feb 19, 2012)

provocateur said:


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your link does not indicate that


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## Outback (Feb 19, 2012)

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Yep, that jack sounds moderate to me.


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## Provocateur (Feb 19, 2012)

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If you understood any of the conflicts, it would.


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## elvis (Feb 19, 2012)

eots said:


> And it shall come to pass, because of the wickedness of the world, that I will take avengeance upon the wicked, for they will not repent; for the cup of mine indignation is full; for behold, my blood shall not cleanse them if they hear me not.



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czb4jn5y94g]Pulp Fiction - YouTube[/ame]


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## eots (Feb 19, 2012)

The Book of Mormon says. . .

"And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth" (1 Nephi 14:10).


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## Provocateur (Feb 19, 2012)

eots said:


> And it shall come to pass, because of the wickedness of the world, that I will take avengeance upon the wicked, for they will not repent; for the cup of mine indignation is full; for behold, my blood shall not cleanse them if they hear me not.


We get it, Christians anger you.

That doesn't have a lot to do with the hearts of Muslims, however, which is the discussion at hand.


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## eots (Feb 19, 2012)

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you mean if I viewed them from your twisted perspective


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## eots (Feb 19, 2012)

provocateur said:


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mormons are not Christians


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## Provocateur (Feb 19, 2012)

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Whatever.   Please, I didn't mean to interrupt your attempt to Christian bash.  Continue.


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## eots (Feb 19, 2012)

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I am not bashing anything but hypocrisy


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## IndependntLogic (Feb 19, 2012)

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Why bother? There was a reason Christ was silent during His most important public appearance. He knew those in attendence _wanted to hate and to judge_. You are no different. 
You know nothing of the QuRan. You have never practiced Islam. But you're one of those self-righteous Christians that Christ would have despised. You seek seperateness instead of unity. Hate and judgment instead of love and understanding. 
You're a modern day Pharisee.

But okay, you wanna play? Let's play. ALL Infidels are not nnocent? Hmmm. That contradicts what the QuRan says. But then again, The Bible contradicts itself quite often, doesn't it? So one could pick & choose a message of love or one of hate, depending on the verses you decide you give priority. Isn't that true?


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## Provocateur (Feb 19, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


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I get the sense that the only thing you know of the Koran or the New Testament is what you have read on message boards.


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## eots (Feb 19, 2012)

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Quran....

LOL...


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## Provocateur (Feb 19, 2012)

eots said:


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Either spelling is acceptable.


Have fun defending Muslims.


Allah blesses you.



Or, to make your heart sing:

Assalamu alaikum.


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## IndependntLogic (Feb 19, 2012)

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Allah' kum Salam. 
I see you looked it up after making just a little ass of yourself and realizing "Oh crap, he's right". 
I had to learn the basic tenets of all major religions in college. And I definitely know more about the Bible that you do. That doesn't mean my interpretation is any more or less valid, it just means I have more education on the subject.

As far as defending the (Muslim) folks we go have a beer and shoot pool with? The friends we play tennis with? Perhaps you don't defend your friends if it is inconvenient or politically unpopular. I do.

And besides, I'm just not that fond of ignorance.


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## eots (Feb 19, 2012)

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GOD PRAISES ME  ! Well thats swell ...tell allah I said.. hey

It is a known fact that every language has one or more terms that are used in reference to God and sometimes to lesser deities. This is not the case with Allah. Allah is the personal name of the One true God. Nothing else can be called Allah. The term has no plural or gender. This shows its uniqueness when compared with the word god which can be made plural, gods, or feminine, goddess. It is interesting to notice that Allah is the personal name of God in Aramaic, the language of Jesus and a sister language of Arabic.


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## eots (Feb 19, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-eXYJnV3V4&ob=av3n]Ziggy Marley - Love Is My Religion - YouTube[/ame]


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## syrenn (Feb 19, 2012)

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Being devote has nothing to do with being militant.


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 19, 2012)

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A Christian believes in Jesus Christ as the savior , in God and in the Bible, what part of that does not apply to Mormons?


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## IndependntLogic (Feb 19, 2012)

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Good post. Not sure what it has to do with the contention by Sgt et. al. that there is no such thing as a Muslim who's just a regular guy but still, good post.


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 19, 2012)

eots said:


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What hypocrisy? God does not command MAN to kill man in order to cleanse the earth or make all follow him. Allah DOES.

By the way? Islam believes that Jesus was a prophet so that means what he taught and what the Bible says is still from God and applies.


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 19, 2012)

eots said:


> The Book of Mormon says. . .
> 
> "And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth" (1 Nephi 14:10).



And yet not a single commandment to strike the wicked, to murder or force conversion, BUT Islam does. Allah commands his faithful to convert or kill all Infidels. They may for a time keep some infidels as 3rd class citizens so long as they pay for their lives and do as they are told.


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## Provocateur (Feb 19, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


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Looked what up?  I don't recall you being right about anything.

I love how overtly conceited you are on the matter.  You know nothing about me.  I'll share that my child is 1/4 Pakistani, my in laws are Muslim, my brother is married to a Muslim, my niece, the majority of my co-workers...

But I'm guessing you know everything, and spend your nights flipping back and forth between the Bible and Koran.


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## elvis (Feb 19, 2012)

RetiredGySgt said:


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Interesting.  He ordered that Sodom and Gomorrah be completely destroyed.


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## Provocateur (Feb 19, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


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And dickweed, timestamps are your friend.  Don't know what you think you schooled me on, but here is a hint:


> Last edited by Provocateur; Today at 06:36 PM.


Today 06:40 PM
IndependntLogic


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 19, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


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You keep judging me, I have judged no one, I personally do not care if you believe or not, I don't personally care if Homosexuals live in sin, it is their business. And I don't care what Muslims want so long as that includes no threats to me or my family. I have simply provided information. Go ahead dissect for us one can "interpret" the passage I provided as saying anything other then what it says?


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 19, 2012)

elvis said:


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Old testament and HE destroyed the cities not man.


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## IndependntLogic (Feb 19, 2012)

Provocateur said:


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Wait! And they haven't killed you in your sleep for being an Infidel as you claim???? Phew! Well that's nice of them. I suppose because your family, they'll wait until your 50 or something.


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## Cuyo (Feb 19, 2012)

syrenn said:


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Gotcha.  Then the definition you're looking for is 'Moderate Jihadist,' not 'Moderate Muslim.'


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## IndependntLogic (Feb 19, 2012)

RetiredGySgt said:


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Well the Bible DOES command that we kill every player in the NFL - slowly.

Oh and do you hate your mother and father? After all, according to Jesus himself, you better! 

Not that any religious book could have the most vile verses picked and chosen by those with an agenda of hatred....


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## Provocateur (Feb 19, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


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Actually, I divorced the half Pakistani nearly twenty ago, and my brother's wife and their daughter (along with all their freeloading Turkish relatives) are moving back to Turkey in March because they hate America.

In terms of business associates...business is business.


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 19, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


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I let it pass ONCE, you are now on notice, bring up my family again and I will report you.


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## IndependntLogic (Feb 19, 2012)

Provocateur said:


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Loved Istanbul but not very fond of Turks in general. However to label ALL Muslims the way SGT has is just pure ignorance. 
Surely you know some Muslims that are just plain ol' folks who happen to have a different religion?


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## Provocateur (Feb 19, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


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What is hard for you (and I should add most) to understand is that I appreciate the devotion of Muslims, and do not take their beliefs personally.

I am meeting two associates tomorrow at noon at Pete's Coffee.  I'm looking forward to their company, and enjoy our camaraderie.

That being said, I will not bring up how they felt after 9/11, lest I jeopardize our friendship with their honesty.

I would imagine they would like me to convert, as they know that it best pleases Allah that infidels are removed from the planet, and I think they would miss my company.


I do not hold their devotion and beliefs against them.


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 19, 2012)

Provocateur said:


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Nor do I, the ONLY concern I have is with that portion of the Muslim faithful that believe I should convert or die right now, that portion that support via actions or inaction's murder, mayhem and terror to achieve their goals.


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## syrenn (Feb 19, 2012)

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No, moderate muslim. You hear it all the time... but what IS a moderate muslim? Suni man aslo has it as his tag line.


edit: ...maybe you definition of the 1-10 scale would be good for both.


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## Cuyo (Feb 19, 2012)

syrenn said:


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Syrenn, let's venture back to your OP.



> On the muslim scale of 1  10 with 1 being your live and let live, peaceful, and allowing women equal rights muslim. 10 being your average burka enforcing al-quaeda bombing and killing everything non muslim in site.



So you're saying 1 is live and let live, 10 is bombing and killing everything non-Muslim in site... And you're looking for that "Moderate Muslim" right in the middle?

Yet you say being devout has nothing to do with being militant?


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## syrenn (Feb 19, 2012)

Cuyo said:


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Are you saying that you cannot be devote without being militant and there IS no middle ground?


I am saying anyone can be devote to their religion and teachings... without being militant.


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## sealybobo (Feb 19, 2012)

syrenn said:


> I see this term bandied about, but what is it really?
> 
> On the muslim scale of  1  10 with 1 being your live and let live, peaceful, and allowing women equal rights muslim. 10 being your average burka enforcing al-quaeda bombing and killing everything non muslim in site.  Is not everything that comes in the middle of that moderate?
> 
> ...



A moderate muslim is just like a moderate christian.  During the enlightenment, most Churches were divided.  Conservative Jews, Muslims and Christans went their way and moderately religous people went their way.  Moderate Jews ate shellfish.  Us moderate christians don't think people are going to hell for not accepting Christ.  A lot of us were just born into it but deep down we don't buy it all.  But we still say we are christians or jews or muslims.  We were born into it.  

We go to church on Eastern or Yam Kipper, and we get married in a sinagog or mosque or church but we don't go every sunday.  

We don't take the bible literally.  We think the bible is a bunch of stories made to teach right and wrong.  Man made.  But we still follow the teachings of christ.  So do Mormons, only with a twist.

So we all have different versions of what we think about religion.  No two Christians probably agree on everything the bible says.  So we really should keep it to ourselves.  If it is so clear and obvious, you don't need to be such a snake oil salesman pitching it.  

To conservatives I say this.  I'm sure as conservative as you are, someone else is more conservative and you will find their beliefs radical and extreme, just like we think yours is.


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## Cuyo (Feb 19, 2012)

syrenn said:


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No, I'm saying what you seem to be agreeing with... I'm getting a bit flustered that you're not getting me here.

You described a very non-militant Muslim as a 1, and a very militant one as 10... Yet you are looking for the 'Middle ground' and calling this a 'Moderate Muslim,' not a 'Moderately militant Muslim.'  That _suggests_, to me, that you inherintly link one's Muslim-ey-ness to their militancy. 

Am I articulating this *that* poorly?  Or are you effin with me?

If a very devout Muslim can be very peaceful, and a very casual Muslim can be very militant, than why is a half-way militant Muslim just a "Moderate Muslim?"


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## syrenn (Feb 19, 2012)

Cuyo said:


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Trying to straight face after the effin thing..... It made me chuckle.  No, not effin with you. 

The whole point of it is about asking what all of you think a moderate muslim is. I edited my post a few back, you may not have seen it. You seem to have several ideas of muslim.... please do give us _your_ 1-10 on what they are.


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## Outback (Feb 19, 2012)

syrenn said:


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You effin with me?  Hmmm?  You effin with ME?    

Yeah, let's hear those ideas because I've got no bloody clue other than moderate people are moderate.  



> Professing or characterized by political or social beliefs that are not extreme



Moderate - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Who needs an effin line, other than that ^^ link.


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## Intense (Feb 20, 2012)

*What is a moderate Muslim?*

Just as much a target of Jihad as You and I.


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## manifold (Feb 20, 2012)

I can't seem to decide whether 'moderate muslim' is an oxymoron or a misnomer.


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## Ropey (Feb 20, 2012)

manifold said:


> I can't seem to decide whether 'moderate muslim' is an oxymoron or a misnomer.



Moderates do not want to kill other people. Even in their minds.


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## manifold (Feb 20, 2012)

Ropey said:


> manifold said:
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> > I can't seem to decide whether 'moderate muslim' is an oxymoron or a misnomer.
> ...



Interesting that Muslims require such an adjective to indicate they don't want to kill the infidels.

That should tell you something right there.


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## syrenn (Feb 20, 2012)

Intense said:


> *What is a moderate Muslim?*
> 
> Just as much a target of Jihad as You and I.





no shit! and that is sad.


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## Skull Pilot (Feb 20, 2012)

syrenn said:


> I see this term bandied about, but what is it really?
> 
> On the muslim scale of  1  10 with 1 being your live and let live, peaceful, and allowing women equal rights muslim. 10 being your average burka enforcing al-quaeda bombing and killing everything non muslim in site.  Is not everything that comes in the middle of that moderate?
> 
> ...



The moderate Muslim is the one riding the unicorn.


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## Peach (Feb 20, 2012)

Cuyo said:


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I too know a Muslim woman who follows some traditions, but not others. No chador, no other visible dress that so identifies her. She also runs a business.


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## eots (Feb 20, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG_11-0WkwI]Little Mosque on the Prairie - S05E06 - Part 2 - YouTube[/ame]


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## Ropey (Feb 20, 2012)

^ Funny Canadian show.


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