# Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING



## Rosy

You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot

‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years

An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.

Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.

The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.

“ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”

_[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_

Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.


----------



## cnm

> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING


One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.


----------



## Lewdog

Did the OP read what they posted?

"An Australian community is reeling from the *deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years*, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River."

Now I know reasoning skills can be problematic when people go looking for information to support their already cemented opinion, but if Australia's strict guns laws weren't working, then why would there be a 20 year stretch in between this shooting and the last one?


----------



## Brain357

Lewdog said:


> Did the OP read what they posted?
> 
> "An Australian community is reeling from the *deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years*, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River."
> 
> Now I know reasoning skills can be problematic when people go looking for information to support their already cemented opinion, but if Australia's strict guns laws weren't working, then why would there be a 20 year stretch in between this shooting and the last one?



Seems like we have had so many worse mass shootings in the last 20 years...heck just this year.


----------



## skye

I'm reading it was a domestic dispute.


----------



## skye

cnm said:


> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
Click to expand...




In domestic disputes anything goes, so to speak.... knives, baseball bats, etc, even hands....so

I don't blame the gun.


----------



## Tijn Von Ingersleben

What a bummer....why couldn't they be Abos or Muslims?


----------



## cnm

skye said:


> I don't blame the gun.


Do you blame the gun in other categories?


----------



## Rustic

cnm said:


> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
Click to expand...

According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...


----------



## Brain357

Rustic said:


> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
Click to expand...

I've never heard anyone say gun control means zero gun violence actually.  Glad you are still being dishonest!


----------



## skye

cnm said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame the gun.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you blame the gun in other categories?
Click to expand...


No.


----------



## Rustic

Brain357 said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've never heard anyone say gun control means zero gun violence actually.  Glad you are still being dishonest!
Click to expand...

You’re the ones that said more frivolous gun control laws means no violent crime...


----------



## Brain357

Rustic said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've never heard anyone say gun control means zero gun violence actually.  Glad you are still being dishonest!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re the ones that said more frivolous gun control laws means no violent crime...
Click to expand...

Please link where anyone has ever said gun control laws mean NO violent crime.  I'll be waiting.


----------



## 2aguy

Brain357 said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've never heard anyone say gun control means zero gun violence actually.  Glad you are still being dishonest!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re the ones that said more frivolous gun control laws means no violent crime...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please link where anyone has ever said gun control laws mean NO violent crime.  I'll be waiting.
Click to expand...



Please explain how an island nation like Australia has more gun crime after they banned and confiscated guns......


----------



## Rustic

Brain357 said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've never heard anyone say gun control means zero gun violence actually.  Glad you are still being dishonest!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re the ones that said more frivolous gun control laws means no violent crime...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please link where anyone has ever said gun control laws mean NO violent crime.  I'll be waiting.
Click to expand...

Lol
you say more frivolous gun control laws means no more crime, Because criminals do obey laws... right?


----------



## 2aguy

Brain357 said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've never heard anyone say gun control means zero gun violence actually.  Glad you are still being dishonest!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re the ones that said more frivolous gun control laws means no violent crime...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please link where anyone has ever said gun control laws mean NO violent crime.  I'll be waiting.
Click to expand...



More gun crime in Australia.....

Gun city: Young, dumb and armed

*The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.*

Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.

*These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.*

*----*

Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year

-----------

While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.

*Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.*

*-------------*

These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.

“They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.

“It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”

------------

*Gun crime soars*
In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.

The investigation has found:


There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
*Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts*
In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
============
The second part of the series....
Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West


========================
'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty

Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."

The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.


*And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.*


----------



## Brain357

Rustic said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> 
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've never heard anyone say gun control means zero gun violence actually.  Glad you are still being dishonest!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re the ones that said more frivolous gun control laws means no violent crime...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please link where anyone has ever said gun control laws mean NO violent crime.  I'll be waiting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol
> you say more frivolous gun control laws means no more crime, Because criminals do obey laws... right?
Click to expand...


You continue to make things up.  Please link to back up your claim.


----------



## Brain357

2aguy said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> 
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've never heard anyone say gun control means zero gun violence actually.  Glad you are still being dishonest!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re the ones that said more frivolous gun control laws means no violent crime...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please link where anyone has ever said gun control laws mean NO violent crime.  I'll be waiting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Please explain how an island nation like Australia has more gun crime after they banned and confiscated guns......
Click to expand...


----------



## 2aguy

Brain357 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> 
> 
> I've never heard anyone say gun control means zero gun violence actually.  Glad you are still being dishonest!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re the ones that said more frivolous gun control laws means no violent crime...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please link where anyone has ever said gun control laws mean NO violent crime.  I'll be waiting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Please explain how an island nation like Australia has more gun crime after they banned and confiscated guns......
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


brainless.......my article on the increase in gun crime is from 2016.....notice where your dumb chart ends?  An influx of immigrant criminals is driving the gun crime in Australia, not law abiding Australians who wouldn't use guns for crime...

And here, where more Americans now own and actually carry guns?

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


--* gun murder down 49%*

*--gun crime down 75%*

*--violent crime down 72%*

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


----------



## 2aguy

Brain357 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> 
> 
> I've never heard anyone say gun control means zero gun violence actually.  Glad you are still being dishonest!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re the ones that said more frivolous gun control laws means no violent crime...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please link where anyone has ever said gun control laws mean NO violent crime.  I'll be waiting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Please explain how an island nation like Australia has more gun crime after they banned and confiscated guns......
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



Dipshit...you need to extend your graph...

Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five years.

While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.

Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.

These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.

“They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.


----------



## Rustic

Brain357 said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> 
> 
> I've never heard anyone say gun control means zero gun violence actually.  Glad you are still being dishonest!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re the ones that said more frivolous gun control laws means no violent crime...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please link where anyone has ever said gun control laws mean NO violent crime.  I'll be waiting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol
> you say more frivolous gun control laws means no more crime, Because criminals do obey laws... right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You continue to make things up.  Please link to back up your claim.
Click to expand...

The vast majority of criminal behavior is done by repeat offenders, this country has no criminal control. More frivolous gun control laws will do nothing for stopping violent crime.
 What part of this don’t you understand? Why do you continue to think that more laws means less crime? Are you slow in the head?
Do you think the collective will save you?


----------



## 2aguy

people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five years.


----------



## cnm

skye said:


> No.


So your comment was pointless in this case. Even though Australia's rate of firearm homicide is a 25th of that of the US.


----------



## cnm

2aguy said:


> More gun crime in Australia.....


1/25th the rate of firearm homicides in the US. That must be because of the lack of gun control.


----------



## Andylusion

cnm said:


> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
Click to expand...


Yeah, and our point is that it isn't the laws that are the problem.  It's the fact we have anti-moral relativists teaching kids that right and wrong is all subjective.

It's our culture that is the problem.  Not the laws.

You people keep saying there is no right and wrong, but we just need more gun laws to control evil in the world.   You have routinely pointed to Australia as an example of gun control working.  Well.... it isn't.      The reason their gun crime is lower, is because their gun crime has always been lower, for decades on end, even before all your supposedly amazing gun laws were put in place.

And here was have another mass shooting, in a country with all the gun laws you claim work.   Apparently they didn't work.


----------



## cnm

Andylusion said:


> Yeah, and our point is that it isn't the laws that are the problem.


Yes. Your point is bullshit. The laws are the problem because you won't adjust them to compensate for easy access to handguns and military style semi automatics because you are too selfish.


----------



## cnm

Andylusion said:


> And here was have another mass shooting, in a country with all the gun laws you claim work.


At a firearm homicide rate 1/25th of the US. And you have the cheek to say gun control in Australia is not effective.


----------



## Rustic

cnm said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> More gun crime in Australia.....
> 
> 
> 
> 1/25th the rate of firearm homicides in the US. That must be because of the lack of gun control.
Click to expand...

People kill people not firearms… Shit for brains


----------



## cnm

Andylusion said:


> The reason their gun crime is lower, is because their gun crime has always been lower, for decades on end, even before all your supposedly amazing gun laws were put in place.


Because handguns were strictly regulated for decades on end.


----------



## Rustic

cnm said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> The reason their gun crime is lower, is because their gun crime has always been lower, for decades on end, even before all your supposedly amazing gun laws were put in place.
> 
> 
> 
> Because handguns were strictly regulated for decades on end.
Click to expand...

You don’t understand the issue, dip shit


----------



## cnm

Oh, by the way, if you want some actual facts instead of 2aguy's demented ravings here's a useful place to start...

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/australian-guns/


----------



## Papageorgio

cnm said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame the gun.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you blame the gun in other categories?
Click to expand...


I blame the person not an inanimate object.


----------



## Andylusion

cnm said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, and our point is that it isn't the laws that are the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Your point is bullshit. The laws are the problem because you won't adjust them to compensate for easy access to handguns and military style semi automatics because you are too selfish.
Click to expand...


Nah your just a arrogant self serving jerk, you puts down anyone with an opinion that isn't completely in line with your bigotry.

Right back at you.  If that's your idea of debating, I'm here to serve out what is dished to me.  You like that, jerk-boy?


----------



## Daryl Hunt

Rosy said:


> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.



Now for the rest of the Story.  What was the Weapon and who or what stopped the killing.  You didn't finish the story.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth

Brain357 said:


> 've never heard anyone say gun control means zero gun violence actually. Glad you are still being dishonest!


So, we don't need gun control.  Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## Daryl Hunt

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 've never heard anyone say gun control means zero gun violence actually. Glad you are still being dishonest!
> 
> 
> 
> So, we don't need gun control.  Thanks for clarifying.
Click to expand...


We need common sense gun regulation laws on the books.  What we don't need is a complete banning nor a complete lack of regulations.  One is about as bad as the other.  What I don't need is for both nutjob fringe groups to misquote me.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth

cnm said:


> Yes. Your point is bullshit. The laws are the problem because you won't adjust them to compensate for easy access to handguns and military style semi automatics because y


Too selfish?

How many other rights can we fuck over with "too selfish" as the shame button?  

Fuck "too selfish."  

You and your ilk are too selfish to arm yourselves.  Too selfish to get over your unreasonable fear of firearms.  But, mainly, you are too selfish to give up on you hopeless drive to rid Americans of their ability to resist your communist revolution, which is also a too selfish notion.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth

Daryl Hunt said:


> We need common sense gun regulation laws on the books. What we don't need is a complete banning nor a complete lack of regulations. One is about as bad as the other. What I don't need is for both nutjob fringe groups to misquote m


Already have that.  Doen't work.

Repeal all gun laws.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth

cnm said:


> Oh, by the way, if you want some actual facts instead of 2aguy's demented ravings here's a useful place to start...
> 
> https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/australian-guns/


Snopes is less credible that Alex Jones.


----------



## Daryl Hunt

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Your point is bullshit. The laws are the problem because you won't adjust them to compensate for easy access to handguns and military style semi automatics because y
> 
> 
> 
> Too selfish?
> 
> How many other rights can we fuck over with "too selfish" as the shame button?
> 
> Fuck "too selfish."
> 
> You and your ilk are too selfish to arm yourselves.  Too selfish to get over your unreasonable fear of firearms.  But, mainly, you are too selfish to give up on you hopeless drive to rid Americans of their ability to resist your communist revolution, which is also a too selfish notion.
Click to expand...


I spent over 20 years armed to protect your rights.  Now I wonder if it was worth it.  You certain aren't.


----------



## 2aguy

cnm said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> More gun crime in Australia.....
> 
> 
> 
> 1/25th the rate of firearm homicides in the US. That must be because of the lack of gun control.
Click to expand...


You guys always go to the gun murder rate.....what does that have to do with the fact that the actual gun crime rate is going up...after they banned and confiscated guns?  AUstralia had a low murder rate before they banned guns...their criminals weren't murdering people even then.   You have to murder as the standard because otherwise the truth is easy to see....taking guns from law abiding gun owners does not impact gun crime.......which is your whole excuse for taking their guns in the first place.  If it becomes common knowledge that you don't have to take guns away from normal people, they will stop giving you power to take their guns.


----------



## 2aguy

cnm said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, and our point is that it isn't the laws that are the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Your point is bullshit. The laws are the problem because you won't adjust them to compensate for easy access to handguns and military style semi automatics because you are too selfish.
Click to expand...



There are no military style semi auto,attic rifles, there are just semi automatic rifles....
.a military style rifle will have the ability to fire a 3 round burst or fully automatic, civilian semi automatic rifles don't have that ability....

And again....Australia had low gun murder before they took their guns.......and now like Britain, their gun crime rate is going up...because their culture is changing, not because their people had guns.


----------



## rightwinger

I wish we could go 22 years between mass shootings


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> I wish we could go 22 years between mass shootings




If we ended democrat gun free zones we would.


----------



## Crepitus

Rosy said:


> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.


Lol, 7 people killed this the worst mass shooting in 22 years but gun control is failing!

Where do these dingbats come from?


----------



## Crepitus

Rustic said:


> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
Click to expand...

Straw man alert!  Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.

You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.


----------



## Crepitus

Rustic said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've never heard anyone say gun control means zero gun violence actually.  Glad you are still being dishonest!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re the ones that said more frivolous gun control laws means no violent crime...
Click to expand...

Buzzzt!!!  Second straw man alert!  Nobody but followers of the NRA cult says that.

Again I say "you idjits need to memorise some new talking points".


----------



## Crepitus

Rustic said:


> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> More gun crime in Australia.....
> 
> 
> 
> 1/25th the rate of firearm homicides in the US. That must be because of the lack of gun control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People kill people not firearms… Shit for brains
Click to expand...

Do you fell better about yourself when you call people names?  Does it make you feel tough?  Does it help you compensate for your mommy not loving you enough?  Doesn't help you forget about how your daddy snuck into your room at night?  What is it with you?


----------



## Crepitus

Rustic said:


> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> The reason their gun crime is lower, is because their gun crime has always been lower, for decades on end, even before all your supposedly amazing gun laws were put in place.
> 
> 
> 
> Because handguns were strictly regulated for decades on end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don’t understand the issue, dip shit
Click to expand...

Musta been your daddy and your uncle.


----------



## Crepitus

Daryl Hunt said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now for the rest of the Story.  What was the Weapon and who or what stopped the killing.  You didn't finish the story.
Click to expand...

Murder/suicide.  The shooter stopped himself.  No mention of what kinda gun.

Four children, three adults found shot dead in Margaret River murder-suicide

Google is your friend, you coulda figured this out for yourself.


----------



## Daryl Hunt

2aguy said:


> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> More gun crime in Australia.....
> 
> 
> 
> 1/25th the rate of firearm homicides in the US. That must be because of the lack of gun control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You guys always go to the gun murder rate.....what does that have to do with the fact that the actual gun crime rate is going up...after they banned and confiscated guns?  AUstralia had a low murder rate before they banned guns...their criminals weren't murdering people even then.   You have to murder as the standard because otherwise the truth is easy to see....taking guns from law abiding gun owners does not impact gun crime.......which is your whole excuse for taking their guns in the first place.  If it becomes common knowledge that you don't have to take guns away from normal people, they will stop giving you power to take their guns.
Click to expand...


Here is your chance.  You have to prove it was going down AND that taking all the guns didn't make it go down any faster.  Tag, yer it.


----------



## 2aguy

Crepitus said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Straw man alert!  Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.
Click to expand...


Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.


Except it isn't working that way in Britain or Australia, doofus.  In both countries gun crime is going up, not down, meanwhile, in the United States....gun crime, gun murder and violent crime is going down, while more Americans are owning and actually carrying guns.....

Your entire point is wrong......gun control in Britain?  More gun crime.  Gun control in Australia?  More gun crime.

More people carrying guns in the U.S.?  Gun murder down, gun crime down, violent crime down.


----------



## 2aguy

Daryl Hunt said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> More gun crime in Australia.....
> 
> 
> 
> 1/25th the rate of firearm homicides in the US. That must be because of the lack of gun control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You guys always go to the gun murder rate.....what does that have to do with the fact that the actual gun crime rate is going up...after they banned and confiscated guns?  AUstralia had a low murder rate before they banned guns...their criminals weren't murdering people even then.   You have to murder as the standard because otherwise the truth is easy to see....taking guns from law abiding gun owners does not impact gun crime.......which is your whole excuse for taking their guns in the first place.  If it becomes common knowledge that you don't have to take guns away from normal people, they will stop giving you power to take their guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here is your chance.  You have to prove it was going down AND that taking all the guns didn't make it go down any faster.  Tag, yer it.
Click to expand...



Here.......2 studies linked in the article......

Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work | National Review

University of Melbourne researchers Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi concluded their 2008 report on the matter with the statement, “There is little evidence to suggest that [the Australian mandatory gun-buyback program] had any significant effects on firearm homicides.”

“Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical and sensible policy that helps to placate the public’s fears,” the reported continued, “the evidence so far suggests that in the Australian context, the high expenditure incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not translated into any tangible reductions in terms of firearm deaths.”

A 2007 report, “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” by Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran similarly concluded that the buyback program did not have a significant long-term effect on the Australian homicide rate.

*The Australian gun-homicide rate had already been quite low and had been steadily falling in the 15 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre. And while the mandatory buyback program did appear to reduce the rate of accidental firearm deaths, Baker and McPhedran found that “the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia.”*


----------



## 2aguy

Daryl Hunt said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> More gun crime in Australia.....
> 
> 
> 
> 1/25th the rate of firearm homicides in the US. That must be because of the lack of gun control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You guys always go to the gun murder rate.....what does that have to do with the fact that the actual gun crime rate is going up...after they banned and confiscated guns?  AUstralia had a low murder rate before they banned guns...their criminals weren't murdering people even then.   You have to murder as the standard because otherwise the truth is easy to see....taking guns from law abiding gun owners does not impact gun crime.......which is your whole excuse for taking their guns in the first place.  If it becomes common knowledge that you don't have to take guns away from normal people, they will stop giving you power to take their guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here is your chance.  You have to prove it was going down AND that taking all the guns didn't make it go down any faster.  Tag, yer it.
Click to expand...



Here is a look at another detailed study on Australian gun crime...I am going to quote a lot of it because the link may not always take you to his particular post...

John Lott's Website: Some notes on claims about Australia's crime rates

Of course, the Huffington Post ignores that more sophisticated research finds no benefit from these laws.  

A paper by Lee and Suardi in Economic Inquiry in 2009 does an excellent job of looking at the issue.


Here is the actual data from Australia.

  First note that gun ownership exhibits a very interesting pattern that isn't often acknowledged.  There was a large gun buyback in 1996 and 1997 that reduced gun ownership from 3.2 to 2.2 million guns.  

*But immediately after that gun ownership increased dramatically and isessentially back to where it was before the buyback.  *

*Why is that important?  *

*Well, if it is the number of guns that is important, you should initially see a large drop in suicides or crimes and then see it increasing.  Yet, in none of these data series do you observe that pattern.*


For example, homicides didn't fall until eight years after the laws.  It is not clear what theory they have for why the long delay would occur.  Nor can I even find an acknowledgment of that long lag in the cited literature.   A more natural explanation for the drop at the eight year point would be the substantial increases in police forces that occurred at that time.








Crime can change for lots of reasons besides changes in gun control laws.  One way to get a handle on this is to see how Australian homicides are changing relative to other crime rates.  A single continuous crime data series isn't available, but the two diagrams below show how homicides is falling almost continuously as a fraction of violent crime.  If anything, the drop in homicides relative to overall violent crime was biggest in the 1970s.  






See also homicides relative to overall crime.  Again, it is very hard to see any benefit from the gun control laws.



UPDATE: Comments on the Huffington Post Show today.  Purely cross-sectional evidence in references to the UK, Germany, etc. doesn't mention that homicide rates were even lower relative to the US before they had gun control.  The graph that they showed across countries (at about 12:55) makes it look like the US has a similar murder rate to other countries such as Russia, Mexico, and other South American countries.  For further information see here and here.


----------



## 2aguy

Daryl Hunt said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> More gun crime in Australia.....
> 
> 
> 
> 1/25th the rate of firearm homicides in the US. That must be because of the lack of gun control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You guys always go to the gun murder rate.....what does that have to do with the fact that the actual gun crime rate is going up...after they banned and confiscated guns?  AUstralia had a low murder rate before they banned guns...their criminals weren't murdering people even then.   You have to murder as the standard because otherwise the truth is easy to see....taking guns from law abiding gun owners does not impact gun crime.......which is your whole excuse for taking their guns in the first place.  If it becomes common knowledge that you don't have to take guns away from normal people, they will stop giving you power to take their guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here is your chance.  You have to prove it was going down AND that taking all the guns didn't make it go down any faster.  Tag, yer it.
Click to expand...



For your convenience......

http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Baker and McPhedran 2007.pdf

Conclusions Examination of the long-term trends indicated that the only category of sudden death that may have been influenced by the introduction of the NFA was firearm suicide
------

However, this effect must be considered in light of the findings for suicide (non-firearm). Homicide patterns (firearm and non-firearm) were not influenced by the NFA, the conclusion being that the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia. The introduction of the NFA appeared to have a negative effect on accidental firearm death. However, over the time period investigated, there was a relatively small number of accidental deaths per annum, with substantial variability. Any conclusions regarding the effect of the NFA on accidental firearm death should be approached with caution


----------



## 2aguy

Daryl Hunt said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> More gun crime in Australia.....
> 
> 
> 
> 1/25th the rate of firearm homicides in the US. That must be because of the lack of gun control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You guys always go to the gun murder rate.....what does that have to do with the fact that the actual gun crime rate is going up...after they banned and confiscated guns?  AUstralia had a low murder rate before they banned guns...their criminals weren't murdering people even then.   You have to murder as the standard because otherwise the truth is easy to see....taking guns from law abiding gun owners does not impact gun crime.......which is your whole excuse for taking their guns in the first place.  If it becomes common knowledge that you don't have to take guns away from normal people, they will stop giving you power to take their guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here is your chance.  You have to prove it was going down AND that taking all the guns didn't make it go down any faster.  Tag, yer it.
Click to expand...



And the other paper from the link.....

http://c8.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Lee and Suardi 2008.pdf

In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates. 
-------

6. Conclusion 

This paper takes a closer look at the effects of the National Firearms Agreement on gun deaths. Using a battery of structural break tests, there is little evidence to suggest that it had any significant effects on firearm homicides and suicides. In addition, there also does not appear to be any substitution effects – that reduced access to firearms may have led those bent on committing homicide or suicide to use alternative methods.


----------



## rightwinger

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish we could go 22 years between mass shootings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we ended democrat gun free zones we would.
Click to expand...


So Australia bans guns and goes 22 years between mass shootings
We keep our guns and can’t go 22 weeks


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish we could go 22 years between mass shootings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we ended democrat gun free zones we would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Australia bans guns and goes 22 years between mass shootings
> We keep our guns and can’t go 22 weeks
Click to expand...


Wrong, they didn't go 22 years between mass shootings, they have had over a dozen public shootings.  The only reason they aren't mass public shootings is the shooter......who had a gun in a public space and was shooting people.....didn't kill 4 or more people.  The actual standard according to obama was 3 people, and they didn't even kill that many in their public shootings....

Explain to us how these public shootings were kept from happening by the Australian gun control laws...had the shooters simply decided to shoot and kill more people, you couldn't keep lying about Australian gun control laws...

Which Australian gun control laws kept these shooters from walking into an Australian elementary school or high school?  Or a mall...oh, some of them did do just those things, they just didn't manage to murder 4 people......

Timeline of major crimes in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


16 January 1998 to 15 June 2009 – Melbourne gangland killings – A series of 35 murders of crime figures and their associates that began with the slaying of Alphonse Gangitano in his home, most likely by Jason Moran, the latest victim being Des Moran who was murdered in Ascot Vale on 15 June 2009.




16 August 1998 – Victorian police officers Gary Silk and Rodney Miller were shot dead in an ambush by Bendali Debs and Jason Joseph Roberts in the Moorabbin Police murders.

*3 August 1999 – La Trobe University shooting – Jonathan Brett Horrocks walked into the cafeteria in La Trobe university in Melbourne Victoria armed with a 38 caliber revolver handgun and opened fire killing Leon Capraro the boss and manager off the cafeteria and wounding a woman who was a student at the university.*

13 March 2000 – Millewa State Forest Murders – Barbara and Stephen Brooks and Stacie Willoughby were found dead, all three having been shot execution style and left in the forest.[60][61]

26 May 2002 – A Vietnamese man walked into a Vietnamese wedding reception in Cabramatta Sydney, New South Wales armed with a handgun and opened fire wounding seven people.

14 October 2002 – Dr. Margret Tobin, the South Australian head of Mental Health Services, was shot dead by Jean Eric Gassy as she walked out of a lift in her office building.
*21 October 2002 – Monash University shooting – Huan Xiang opened fire in a tutorial room, killing two and injuring five.*

25 October 2003 – Greenacre double murder – A man and a woman are shot dead in a house in the suburb of Greenacre, Sydney which was the result of a feud between two Middle Eastern crime families, 24-year-old Ziad Abdulrazak was shot 10 times in the chest and head and 22-year-old Mervat Hamka was shot twice in the neck while she slept in her bedroom, up to 100 shots were fired into the house from four men who were later arrested and convicted of the murders.

26 July 2004 – Security guard Karen Brown shot dead armed robber William Aquilina in a Sydney carpark after he violently bashed her and stole the hotel's takings. Brown was charged with murder but acquitted on the grounds of self-defence.[66][67]


*18 June 2007 – Melbourne CBD shooting – Christopher Wayne Hudson opened fire on three people, killing one and seriously wounding two others who intervened when Hudson was assaulting his girlfriend at a busy Melbourne intersection during the morning peak. He gave himself up to police in Wallan, Victoria on 20 June.[71]*

10 April 2010 – Rajesh Osborne shot and killed his three children, 12 year-old Asia, 10-year-old Jarius and 7-year-old Grace before killing himself in Roxburgh, Victoria.[_citation needed_]

28 April 2011 – 2011 Hectorville siege – Donato Anthony Corbo shot dead Kobus and Annetjie Snyman and their son-in-law Luc Mombers and seriously wounded Mr Mombers' 14-year-old son Marcel and a police officer at Hectorville, South Australia before being arrested after an eight-hour stand off.
1

29 January 2012 – Giovanni Focarelli, son of Comancheros gang member Vincenzo Focarelli, was shot dead whilst Vincenzo survived the fourth attempt on his life.[79]

*28 April 2012 – A man opened fire in a busy shopping mall in Robina on the Gold Coast shooting Bandidos bikie Jacques Teamo. A woman who was an innocent bystander was also injured from a shotgun blast to the leg. Neither of the victims died, but the incident highlighted the recent increase in gun crime across major Australian cities including Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide.[citation needed]*

23 May 2012 – Christopher 'Badness' Binse, a career criminal well known to police, was arrested after a 44-hour siege at an East Keilor home in Melbourne's north west. During the siege, Binse fired several shots at police and refused to co-operate with negotiators; eventually tear gas had to be used to force him out of the house, at which point he refused to put down his weapon and was then sprayed with a volley of non-lethal bullets.[_citation needed_]

15 December 2012 – Aaron Carlino murdered drug dealer Stephen Cookson in his East Perth home by shooting him twice in the head and then he cut up and dismembered his body. He buried his arms legs and torso in the backyard of his house and he wrapped his head in a plastic bag and dumped it on Rottnest Island. The head of Cookson was later found washed up on Rottnest Island by an 11-year-old girl. Carlino was convicted of the murder and was sentenced to life in prison.[_citation needed_]
*8 March 2013 – Queen Street mall siege – Lee Matthew Hiller entered the shopping mall on Queen Street Brisbane Queensland armed with a revolver and threatened shoppers and staff with the revolver, causing a 90-minute siege which ended when Hiller was shot and wounded in the arm by a police officer from the elite Specialist Emergency Response Team. Hiller was then later taken to hospital and was treated for his injury; he pleaded gulity to 20 charges and was sentenced to four-and-a-half years in jail with a non-parole period of two years and three months.[*_*c*itation needed_]
29 July 2013 – Two bikie gang associates, Vasko Boskovski and Bassil Hijazi were shot dead in two separate shooting incidents minutes apart in South West Sydney. The previous week Bassil Hijazi had survived a previous attempt against his life after he was shot inside his car.[_citation needed_]

*9 September 2014 – Lockhart massacre* – Geoff Hunt shot and killed his wife, Kim, his 10-year-old son Fletcher, and his daughters Mia, eight and Phoebe, six before killing himself on a farm in Lockhart in the Riverina district near Wagga Wagga New South Wales. The body of Geoff Hunt and a firearm are later found in a dam on the farm by police divers and a suicide note written by Geoff Hunt is also found inside the house on the farm.[_citation needed_]

*22 October 2014 – Wedderburn shootings* – Ian Jamieson shot dead Peter Lockhart, Peter's wife Mary and Mary's son Greg Holmes on two farm properties in Wedderburn, Victoria over a property dispute. Jamieson surrendered to police after a three-and-a-half hour siege.[_citation needed_]
7 November 2014 – Jordy Brook carjacked a Channel 7 news cameraman at gun point during a crime spree on the Sunshine Coast, Queensland. He was later captured and arrested by police after luring police on a high speed chase and crashing the car.[_citation needed_]

12 November 2014 – Jamie Edwards and Joelene Joyce a married couple who were drug dealers are found shot dead in a car on a highway in the town of Moama, New South Wales.[86]

*15 December 2014 – 2014 Sydney hostage crisis – Seventeen people were taken hostage in a cafe in Martin Place, Sydney by Man Haron Monis. The hostage crisis was resolved in the early hours of 16 December, sixteen hours after it commenced, when armed police stormed the premises. Monis and two hostages were killed in the course of the crisis.[87]*

*27 June 2015 – Hermidale triple murder –* the bodies of three people, two men and a woman are found shot dead on a property in a rural farming community in the town of Hermidale west of Nyngan, the bodies of 28-year-old Jacob Cumberland his father 59-year-old Stephen Cumberland and a 36-year-old woman were found with gun shot wounds, the body of Jacob Cumberland was found on the drive way of the property, the body of the 36-year-old woman was found in the backyard of the property and the body of Stephen Cumberland was found in a burnt out caravan on the property. 61-year-old Allan O'Connor is later arrested and charged with the murders.

*10 September 2015 – A 49-year-old woman is shot dead in a Mc Donald's restaurant in Gold Coast by her 57-year-old ex partner, who then turned the gun on himself afterwards and shot himself dead.*
*2 October 2015 - 2015 Parramatta shooting* On 2 October 2015, Farhad Khalil Mohammad Jabar, a 15-year-old boy, shot and killed Curtis Cheng, an unarmed police civilian finance worker, outside the New South Wales Police Force headquarters in Parramatta, Australia. Jabar was subsequently shot and killed by special constables who were protecting the police station.


----------



## 2aguy

Daryl Hunt said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> More gun crime in Australia.....
> 
> 
> 
> 1/25th the rate of firearm homicides in the US. That must be because of the lack of gun control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You guys always go to the gun murder rate.....what does that have to do with the fact that the actual gun crime rate is going up...after they banned and confiscated guns?  AUstralia had a low murder rate before they banned guns...their criminals weren't murdering people even then.   You have to murder as the standard because otherwise the truth is easy to see....taking guns from law abiding gun owners does not impact gun crime.......which is your whole excuse for taking their guns in the first place.  If it becomes common knowledge that you don't have to take guns away from normal people, they will stop giving you power to take their guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here is your chance.  You have to prove it was going down AND that taking all the guns didn't make it go down any faster.  Tag, yer it.
Click to expand...



And more information on Australia 

US gun control advocates exaggerate benefits of Australia's gun restrictions

New Zealand also provides a useful comparison to Australia. They are both isolated, island nations, and have similar socioeconomics and demographics. Their mass murder rates were nearly identical prior to Australia’s gun buyback. 

From 1980 to 1996, Australia’s mass murder rate was 0.0042 incidents per 100,000 people. New Zealand’s was 0.0050 incidents per 100,000 people. After 1997, both countries experienced similar drops in mass murders, even though New Zealand had not altered its gun control laws. 

It would be just as misleading for gun control critics to cite only New Zealand as it is for gun control advocates to cite Australia. 

The right approach is to look at a lot of similar places and see what gun control measures actually made a difference. To do just that, Bill Landes of the University of Chicago and I collected data on all multiple-victim public shootings in all the United States from 1977 to 1999. 

We examined 13 different gun control policies, including: waiting periods, registration, background checks, bans on assault weapons, the death penalty, and harsher penalties for committing a crime with a firearm. 

But only one policy reduced the number and severity of mass public shootings: allowing victims to defend themselves with permitted, concealed handguns.


----------



## cnm

Daryl Hunt said:


> I spent over 20 years armed to protect your rights. Now I wonder if it was worth it. You certain aren't.


A) No you didn't.

B) You did it for yourself and to preserve and extend US hegemony.

C) I didn't need your protection, nor did you protect a single right of mine.

D) You're deluding yourself with your implication that more firearms is the answer.


----------



## cnm

2aguy said:


> Wrong, they didn't go 22 years between mass shootings, they have had over a dozen public shootings. The only reason they aren't mass public shootings ...


So that is 22 years between mass shootings. You are a demented loony.


----------



## cnm

2aguy said:


> After 1997, both countries experienced similar drops in mass murders, even though New Zealand had not altered its gun control laws.


New Zealand altered their laws in 1990 after a mass shooting and hasn't had one since that I'm aware of. Ffs.

You are demented. And full of bullshit.


----------



## cnm

Daryl Hunt said:


> You have to prove it was going down AND that taking all the guns didn't make it go down any faster.


They didn't take all the guns.


----------



## cnm

2aguy said:


> But only one policy reduced the number and severity of mass public shootings: allowing victims to defend themselves with permitted, concealed handguns.


That's obvious bullshit when NZ's and Australia's example is taken into account. Obvious rightard dumb fuck bullshit.


----------



## cnm

2aguy said:


> Timeline of major crimes in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


And Australia's firearms homicide rate is still 1/25th that of the US'. It's pretty hilarious you concentrate on countries doing much better than the US in regard to firearm fatalities, but the reason is obvious. Your position disintegrates as soon as you focus on the US.


----------



## cnm

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> Too selfish?


Yes. You consider the deaths of other people's school kids an acceptable price to pay for your easy access to handguns and military style semi automatics. Too selfish.


----------



## 2aguy

cnm said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong, they didn't go 22 years between mass shootings, they have had over a dozen public shootings. The only reason they aren't mass public shootings ...
> 
> 
> 
> So that is 22 years between mass shootings. You are a demented loony.
Click to expand...



No......you have had over 12 public shootings with your gun confiscation and ban, that the shooters didn't kill 4 or more people was not because your gun control laws stopped them... you have been running on luck...


----------



## 2aguy

cnm said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> After 1997, both countries experienced similar drops in mass murders, even though New Zealand had not altered its gun control laws.
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand altered their laws in 1990 after a mass shooting and hasn't had one since that I'm aware of. Ffs.
> 
> You are demented. And full of bullshit.
Click to expand...



And yet that isn't what the statistics say......or the laws.....as the links show.


----------



## 2aguy

cnm said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Timeline of major crimes in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> And Australia's firearms homicide rate is still 1/25th that of the US'. It's pretty hilarious you concentrate on countries doing much better than the US in regard to firearm fatalities, but the reason is obvious. Your position disintegrates as soon as you focus on the US.
Click to expand...



No....I am showing that it isn't gun control laws that keep the gun murder rate down but the culture of the country, since their gun crime rate is going up.  Their criminals aren't murdering each other as often but they are using guns for crime.

That you guys have to hide the truth shows you know that gun control does not stop gun crime from increasing.


----------



## 2aguy

cnm said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Timeline of major crimes in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> And Australia's firearms homicide rate is still 1/25th that of the US'. It's pretty hilarious you concentrate on countries doing much better than the US in regard to firearm fatalities, but the reason is obvious. Your position disintegrates as soon as you focus on the US.
Click to expand...


in regard to firearm fatalities, but the reason is obvious

Look, doofus, criminals in Australia have guns....they have more guns than before....they aren't using the actual guns they have to commit murder, so the reason is not obvious to you...since the facts on the ground show you don't know what you are talking about.

They have guns.  They shoot people.  They aren't murdering people, yet you claim it is because of the gun laws that aren't stopping them from getting guns....that is stupid...


----------



## cnm

2aguy said:


> No......you have had over 12 public shootings with your gun confiscation and ban, that the shooters didn't kill 4 or more people was not because your gun control laws stopped them... you have been running on luck...


Absolute rubbish. If handguns or military style semi automatics were easily obtainable the casualty figures could be much worse.


----------



## cnm

2aguy said:


> Look, doofus, criminals in Australia have guns


And Australian firearm laws are keeping the rate of firearm homicides to 1/25 of that of the US.


----------



## 2aguy

cnm said:


> Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too selfish?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. You consider the deaths of other people's school kids an acceptable price to pay for your easy access to handguns and military style semi automatics. Too selfish.
Click to expand...



No....we don't accept it but the democrats here don't want to stop it.  If they wanted to stop the rare public school shootings they would end gun free zones, since we know that mass shooters choose democrat gun free zones as targets.

And there were 238 children murdered with guns in 2016....there were  674 murdered by  other means.  You only care about the ones murdered with guns.....

At the same time there were 2.4 million defensive gun uses in the United States.....2.4 million according to the CDC and other studies.....those are violent rapes, robberies and potential murders stopped....and if you do what you want, getting rid of guns.......then those rapes, robberies and murders happen and are completed.....

do you see how stupid your argument is now?

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC
2016....
Murder with guns...kids,  238
<1.......11
1-4.......64
5-9......68
10-14....95
Other means........
<1-14
674

Accidental gun deaths of kids......with over 600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense..

*
https://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/leadcause.html
2016...74
2015...48*
2014...50
2013...69
2012...58
2011...74
2010...62
2009...48
2008...62
2007...65
2006...54
2005...75
2004...63
2003...56
2002...60
2001...72
2000...86
1999...88


----------



## cnm

2aguy said:


> And yet that isn't what the statistics say......or the laws.....as the links show.


There has not been a mass shooting with a military style semi automatic since the laws were revamped. You are full of demented bullshit.


----------



## 2aguy

cnm said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look, doofus, criminals in Australia have guns
> 
> 
> 
> And Australian firearm laws are keeping the rate of firearm homicides to 1/25 of that of the US.
Click to expand...



No, they aren't ....since criminals who ignore the law have guns....you simple minded doofus.  They have guns, they shoot those guns at other people, they just aren't killing them.  What part of the criminals having guns and using them correlates with a low murder rate due to gun control...since the gun control didn't stop them from getting the guns they are currently using for crime?


----------



## cnm

2aguy said:


> No....we don't accept it but the democrats here don't want to stop it.


You do. Many posters on this site have said exactly that, while others have implied consent by their silence.


----------



## cnm

2aguy said:


> No, they aren't


Australia's firearm homicide rate is 1/25th that of the US. In large measure because handguns are rigidly controlled and have been for decades.


----------



## 2aguy

cnm said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No......you have had over 12 public shootings with your gun confiscation and ban, that the shooters didn't kill 4 or more people was not because your gun control laws stopped them... you have been running on luck...
> 
> 
> 
> Absolute rubbish. If handguns or military style semi automatics were easily obtainable the casualty figures could be much worse.
Click to expand...



Only if they are used to commit murder...and Australian Criminals aren't murdering each other.....

And then you have to explain how increased gun ownership and gun carrying in the U.S. leads to lower gun murder....lower gun crime...and lower violent crime...

Do you care to explain that?  This fact shows that you have no rational point.....considering at the same time, Australian gun crime is going up, not down.

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


--* gun murder down 49%*

*--gun crime down 75%*

*--violent crime down 72%*

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


----------



## 2aguy

cnm said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they aren't
> 
> 
> 
> Australia's firearm homicide rate is 1/25th that of the US. In large measure because handguns are rigidly controlled.
Click to expand...



Wrong...your criminals get guns, and hand guns are the easiest to get illegally since they are small and easy to conceal...Australia's murder rate is low because their criminals aren't murdering each other.


----------



## candycorn

I would gladly trade our murder rate for theirs.


----------



## cnm

But I will leave you to your demented ravings, where you ignore US firearm fatalities for some reason best known to yourself.


----------



## 2aguy

cnm said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they aren't
> 
> 
> 
> Australia's firearm homicide rate is 1/25th that of the US. In large measure because handguns are rigidly controlled and have been for decades.
Click to expand...



Here...again.....

Gun city: Young, dumb and armed

*The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.*

Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.

*These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.*

*----*

Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year

-----------

While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.

*Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.*

*-------------*

These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.

“They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.

“It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”

------------

*Gun crime soars*
In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.

The investigation has found:


There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
*Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts*
In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
============
The second part of the series....
Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West


========================
'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty

Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."

The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.


*And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.*


----------



## 2aguy

candycorn said:


> I would gladly trade our murder rate for theirs.




Then you have to trade their criminals for our criminals.....


----------



## rightwinger

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish we could go 22 years between mass shootings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we ended democrat gun free zones we would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Australia bans guns and goes 22 years between mass shootings
> We keep our guns and can’t go 22 weeks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong, they didn't go 22 years between mass shootings, they have had over a dozen public shootings.  The only reason they aren't mass public shootings is the shooter......who had a gun in a public space and was shooting people.....didn't kill 4 or more people.  The actual standard according to obama was 3 people, and they didn't even kill that many in their public shootings....
> 
> Explain to us how these public shootings were kept from happening by the Australian gun control laws...had the shooters simply decided to shoot and kill more people, you couldn't keep lying about Australian gun control laws...
> 
> Which Australian gun control laws kept these shooters from walking into an Australian elementary school or high school?  Or a mall...oh, some of them did do just those things, they just didn't manage to murder 4 people......
> 
> Timeline of major crimes in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 16 January 1998 to 15 June 2009 – Melbourne gangland killings – A series of 35 murders of crime figures and their associates that began with the slaying of Alphonse Gangitano in his home, most likely by Jason Moran, the latest victim being Des Moran who was murdered in Ascot Vale on 15 June 2009.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 16 August 1998 – Victorian police officers Gary Silk and Rodney Miller were shot dead in an ambush by Bendali Debs and Jason Joseph Roberts in the Moorabbin Police murders.
> 
> *3 August 1999 – La Trobe University shooting – Jonathan Brett Horrocks walked into the cafeteria in La Trobe university in Melbourne Victoria armed with a 38 caliber revolver handgun and opened fire killing Leon Capraro the boss and manager off the cafeteria and wounding a woman who was a student at the university.*
> 
> 13 March 2000 – Millewa State Forest Murders – Barbara and Stephen Brooks and Stacie Willoughby were found dead, all three having been shot execution style and left in the forest.[60][61]
> 
> 26 May 2002 – A Vietnamese man walked into a Vietnamese wedding reception in Cabramatta Sydney, New South Wales armed with a handgun and opened fire wounding seven people.
> 
> 14 October 2002 – Dr. Margret Tobin, the South Australian head of Mental Health Services, was shot dead by Jean Eric Gassy as she walked out of a lift in her office building.
> *21 October 2002 – Monash University shooting – Huan Xiang opened fire in a tutorial room, killing two and injuring five.*
> 
> 25 October 2003 – Greenacre double murder – A man and a woman are shot dead in a house in the suburb of Greenacre, Sydney which was the result of a feud between two Middle Eastern crime families, 24-year-old Ziad Abdulrazak was shot 10 times in the chest and head and 22-year-old Mervat Hamka was shot twice in the neck while she slept in her bedroom, up to 100 shots were fired into the house from four men who were later arrested and convicted of the murders.
> 
> 26 July 2004 – Security guard Karen Brown shot dead armed robber William Aquilina in a Sydney carpark after he violently bashed her and stole the hotel's takings. Brown was charged with murder but acquitted on the grounds of self-defence.[66][67]
> 
> 
> *18 June 2007 – Melbourne CBD shooting – Christopher Wayne Hudson opened fire on three people, killing one and seriously wounding two others who intervened when Hudson was assaulting his girlfriend at a busy Melbourne intersection during the morning peak. He gave himself up to police in Wallan, Victoria on 20 June.[71]*
> 
> 10 April 2010 – Rajesh Osborne shot and killed his three children, 12 year-old Asia, 10-year-old Jarius and 7-year-old Grace before killing himself in Roxburgh, Victoria.[_citation needed_]
> 
> 28 April 2011 – 2011 Hectorville siege – Donato Anthony Corbo shot dead Kobus and Annetjie Snyman and their son-in-law Luc Mombers and seriously wounded Mr Mombers' 14-year-old son Marcel and a police officer at Hectorville, South Australia before being arrested after an eight-hour stand off.
> 1
> 
> 29 January 2012 – Giovanni Focarelli, son of Comancheros gang member Vincenzo Focarelli, was shot dead whilst Vincenzo survived the fourth attempt on his life.[79]
> 
> *28 April 2012 – A man opened fire in a busy shopping mall in Robina on the Gold Coast shooting Bandidos bikie Jacques Teamo. A woman who was an innocent bystander was also injured from a shotgun blast to the leg. Neither of the victims died, but the incident highlighted the recent increase in gun crime across major Australian cities including Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide.[citation needed]*
> 
> 23 May 2012 – Christopher 'Badness' Binse, a career criminal well known to police, was arrested after a 44-hour siege at an East Keilor home in Melbourne's north west. During the siege, Binse fired several shots at police and refused to co-operate with negotiators; eventually tear gas had to be used to force him out of the house, at which point he refused to put down his weapon and was then sprayed with a volley of non-lethal bullets.[_citation needed_]
> 
> 15 December 2012 – Aaron Carlino murdered drug dealer Stephen Cookson in his East Perth home by shooting him twice in the head and then he cut up and dismembered his body. He buried his arms legs and torso in the backyard of his house and he wrapped his head in a plastic bag and dumped it on Rottnest Island. The head of Cookson was later found washed up on Rottnest Island by an 11-year-old girl. Carlino was convicted of the murder and was sentenced to life in prison.[_citation needed_]
> *8 March 2013 – Queen Street mall siege – Lee Matthew Hiller entered the shopping mall on Queen Street Brisbane Queensland armed with a revolver and threatened shoppers and staff with the revolver, causing a 90-minute siege which ended when Hiller was shot and wounded in the arm by a police officer from the elite Specialist Emergency Response Team. Hiller was then later taken to hospital and was treated for his injury; he pleaded gulity to 20 charges and was sentenced to four-and-a-half years in jail with a non-parole period of two years and three months.[*_*c*itation needed_]
> 29 July 2013 – Two bikie gang associates, Vasko Boskovski and Bassil Hijazi were shot dead in two separate shooting incidents minutes apart in South West Sydney. The previous week Bassil Hijazi had survived a previous attempt against his life after he was shot inside his car.[_citation needed_]
> 
> *9 September 2014 – Lockhart massacre* – Geoff Hunt shot and killed his wife, Kim, his 10-year-old son Fletcher, and his daughters Mia, eight and Phoebe, six before killing himself on a farm in Lockhart in the Riverina district near Wagga Wagga New South Wales. The body of Geoff Hunt and a firearm are later found in a dam on the farm by police divers and a suicide note written by Geoff Hunt is also found inside the house on the farm.[_citation needed_]
> 
> *22 October 2014 – Wedderburn shootings* – Ian Jamieson shot dead Peter Lockhart, Peter's wife Mary and Mary's son Greg Holmes on two farm properties in Wedderburn, Victoria over a property dispute. Jamieson surrendered to police after a three-and-a-half hour siege.[_citation needed_]
> 7 November 2014 – Jordy Brook carjacked a Channel 7 news cameraman at gun point during a crime spree on the Sunshine Coast, Queensland. He was later captured and arrested by police after luring police on a high speed chase and crashing the car.[_citation needed_]
> 
> 12 November 2014 – Jamie Edwards and Joelene Joyce a married couple who were drug dealers are found shot dead in a car on a highway in the town of Moama, New South Wales.[86]
> 
> *15 December 2014 – 2014 Sydney hostage crisis – Seventeen people were taken hostage in a cafe in Martin Place, Sydney by Man Haron Monis. The hostage crisis was resolved in the early hours of 16 December, sixteen hours after it commenced, when armed police stormed the premises. Monis and two hostages were killed in the course of the crisis.[87]*
> 
> *27 June 2015 – Hermidale triple murder –* the bodies of three people, two men and a woman are found shot dead on a property in a rural farming community in the town of Hermidale west of Nyngan, the bodies of 28-year-old Jacob Cumberland his father 59-year-old Stephen Cumberland and a 36-year-old woman were found with gun shot wounds, the body of Jacob Cumberland was found on the drive way of the property, the body of the 36-year-old woman was found in the backyard of the property and the body of Stephen Cumberland was found in a burnt out caravan on the property. 61-year-old Allan O'Connor is later arrested and charged with the murders.
> 
> *10 September 2015 – A 49-year-old woman is shot dead in a Mc Donald's restaurant in Gold Coast by her 57-year-old ex partner, who then turned the gun on himself afterwards and shot himself dead.*
> *2 October 2015 - 2015 Parramatta shooting* On 2 October 2015, Farhad Khalil Mohammad Jabar, a 15-year-old boy, shot and killed Curtis Cheng, an unarmed police civilian finance worker, outside the New South Wales Police Force headquarters in Parramatta, Australia. Jabar was subsequently shot and killed by special constables who were protecting the police station.
Click to expand...

tl;dr


Australia has shown that gun confiscation works   22 years between major mass shootings would be a miracle in a second amendment country


----------



## cnm

2aguy said:


> hand guns are the easiest to get illegally since they are small and easy to conceal


How many times do you have to be told handguns are not easily available in Australia?


----------



## 2aguy

cnm said:


> But I will leave you to your demented ravings, where you ignore US firearm fatalities for some reason best known to yourself.




I don't ignore our gun murder rates....I have the answer as do other 2nd Amendment supporters...long prison sentences for gun criminals, instead of letting democrats release them over and over again, and getting rid of democrat gun free zones so that mass shooters will stop targeting them.

That is how you stop gun crime, not by taking guns away from people who don't use guns to commit crimes.


----------



## 2aguy

cnm said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> hand guns are the easiest to get illegally since they are small and easy to conceal
> 
> 
> 
> How many times do you have to be told handguns are not easily available in Australia?
Click to expand...



How many times do you have to be told that criminals get them easily?

Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish we could go 22 years between mass shootings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we ended democrat gun free zones we would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Australia bans guns and goes 22 years between mass shootings
> We keep our guns and can’t go 22 weeks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong, they didn't go 22 years between mass shootings, they have had over a dozen public shootings.  The only reason they aren't mass public shootings is the shooter......who had a gun in a public space and was shooting people.....didn't kill 4 or more people.  The actual standard according to obama was 3 people, and they didn't even kill that many in their public shootings....
> 
> Explain to us how these public shootings were kept from happening by the Australian gun control laws...had the shooters simply decided to shoot and kill more people, you couldn't keep lying about Australian gun control laws...
> 
> Which Australian gun control laws kept these shooters from walking into an Australian elementary school or high school?  Or a mall...oh, some of them did do just those things, they just didn't manage to murder 4 people......
> 
> Timeline of major crimes in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 16 January 1998 to 15 June 2009 – Melbourne gangland killings – A series of 35 murders of crime figures and their associates that began with the slaying of Alphonse Gangitano in his home, most likely by Jason Moran, the latest victim being Des Moran who was murdered in Ascot Vale on 15 June 2009.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 16 August 1998 – Victorian police officers Gary Silk and Rodney Miller were shot dead in an ambush by Bendali Debs and Jason Joseph Roberts in the Moorabbin Police murders.
> 
> *3 August 1999 – La Trobe University shooting – Jonathan Brett Horrocks walked into the cafeteria in La Trobe university in Melbourne Victoria armed with a 38 caliber revolver handgun and opened fire killing Leon Capraro the boss and manager off the cafeteria and wounding a woman who was a student at the university.*
> 
> 13 March 2000 – Millewa State Forest Murders – Barbara and Stephen Brooks and Stacie Willoughby were found dead, all three having been shot execution style and left in the forest.[60][61]
> 
> 26 May 2002 – A Vietnamese man walked into a Vietnamese wedding reception in Cabramatta Sydney, New South Wales armed with a handgun and opened fire wounding seven people.
> 
> 14 October 2002 – Dr. Margret Tobin, the South Australian head of Mental Health Services, was shot dead by Jean Eric Gassy as she walked out of a lift in her office building.
> *21 October 2002 – Monash University shooting – Huan Xiang opened fire in a tutorial room, killing two and injuring five.*
> 
> 25 October 2003 – Greenacre double murder – A man and a woman are shot dead in a house in the suburb of Greenacre, Sydney which was the result of a feud between two Middle Eastern crime families, 24-year-old Ziad Abdulrazak was shot 10 times in the chest and head and 22-year-old Mervat Hamka was shot twice in the neck while she slept in her bedroom, up to 100 shots were fired into the house from four men who were later arrested and convicted of the murders.
> 
> 26 July 2004 – Security guard Karen Brown shot dead armed robber William Aquilina in a Sydney carpark after he violently bashed her and stole the hotel's takings. Brown was charged with murder but acquitted on the grounds of self-defence.[66][67]
> 
> 
> *18 June 2007 – Melbourne CBD shooting – Christopher Wayne Hudson opened fire on three people, killing one and seriously wounding two others who intervened when Hudson was assaulting his girlfriend at a busy Melbourne intersection during the morning peak. He gave himself up to police in Wallan, Victoria on 20 June.[71]*
> 
> 10 April 2010 – Rajesh Osborne shot and killed his three children, 12 year-old Asia, 10-year-old Jarius and 7-year-old Grace before killing himself in Roxburgh, Victoria.[_citation needed_]
> 
> 28 April 2011 – 2011 Hectorville siege – Donato Anthony Corbo shot dead Kobus and Annetjie Snyman and their son-in-law Luc Mombers and seriously wounded Mr Mombers' 14-year-old son Marcel and a police officer at Hectorville, South Australia before being arrested after an eight-hour stand off.
> 1
> 
> 29 January 2012 – Giovanni Focarelli, son of Comancheros gang member Vincenzo Focarelli, was shot dead whilst Vincenzo survived the fourth attempt on his life.[79]
> 
> *28 April 2012 – A man opened fire in a busy shopping mall in Robina on the Gold Coast shooting Bandidos bikie Jacques Teamo. A woman who was an innocent bystander was also injured from a shotgun blast to the leg. Neither of the victims died, but the incident highlighted the recent increase in gun crime across major Australian cities including Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide.[citation needed]*
> 
> 23 May 2012 – Christopher 'Badness' Binse, a career criminal well known to police, was arrested after a 44-hour siege at an East Keilor home in Melbourne's north west. During the siege, Binse fired several shots at police and refused to co-operate with negotiators; eventually tear gas had to be used to force him out of the house, at which point he refused to put down his weapon and was then sprayed with a volley of non-lethal bullets.[_citation needed_]
> 
> 15 December 2012 – Aaron Carlino murdered drug dealer Stephen Cookson in his East Perth home by shooting him twice in the head and then he cut up and dismembered his body. He buried his arms legs and torso in the backyard of his house and he wrapped his head in a plastic bag and dumped it on Rottnest Island. The head of Cookson was later found washed up on Rottnest Island by an 11-year-old girl. Carlino was convicted of the murder and was sentenced to life in prison.[_citation needed_]
> *8 March 2013 – Queen Street mall siege – Lee Matthew Hiller entered the shopping mall on Queen Street Brisbane Queensland armed with a revolver and threatened shoppers and staff with the revolver, causing a 90-minute siege which ended when Hiller was shot and wounded in the arm by a police officer from the elite Specialist Emergency Response Team. Hiller was then later taken to hospital and was treated for his injury; he pleaded gulity to 20 charges and was sentenced to four-and-a-half years in jail with a non-parole period of two years and three months.[*_*c*itation needed_]
> 29 July 2013 – Two bikie gang associates, Vasko Boskovski and Bassil Hijazi were shot dead in two separate shooting incidents minutes apart in South West Sydney. The previous week Bassil Hijazi had survived a previous attempt against his life after he was shot inside his car.[_citation needed_]
> 
> *9 September 2014 – Lockhart massacre* – Geoff Hunt shot and killed his wife, Kim, his 10-year-old son Fletcher, and his daughters Mia, eight and Phoebe, six before killing himself on a farm in Lockhart in the Riverina district near Wagga Wagga New South Wales. The body of Geoff Hunt and a firearm are later found in a dam on the farm by police divers and a suicide note written by Geoff Hunt is also found inside the house on the farm.[_citation needed_]
> 
> *22 October 2014 – Wedderburn shootings* – Ian Jamieson shot dead Peter Lockhart, Peter's wife Mary and Mary's son Greg Holmes on two farm properties in Wedderburn, Victoria over a property dispute. Jamieson surrendered to police after a three-and-a-half hour siege.[_citation needed_]
> 7 November 2014 – Jordy Brook carjacked a Channel 7 news cameraman at gun point during a crime spree on the Sunshine Coast, Queensland. He was later captured and arrested by police after luring police on a high speed chase and crashing the car.[_citation needed_]
> 
> 12 November 2014 – Jamie Edwards and Joelene Joyce a married couple who were drug dealers are found shot dead in a car on a highway in the town of Moama, New South Wales.[86]
> 
> *15 December 2014 – 2014 Sydney hostage crisis – Seventeen people were taken hostage in a cafe in Martin Place, Sydney by Man Haron Monis. The hostage crisis was resolved in the early hours of 16 December, sixteen hours after it commenced, when armed police stormed the premises. Monis and two hostages were killed in the course of the crisis.[87]*
> 
> *27 June 2015 – Hermidale triple murder –* the bodies of three people, two men and a woman are found shot dead on a property in a rural farming community in the town of Hermidale west of Nyngan, the bodies of 28-year-old Jacob Cumberland his father 59-year-old Stephen Cumberland and a 36-year-old woman were found with gun shot wounds, the body of Jacob Cumberland was found on the drive way of the property, the body of the 36-year-old woman was found in the backyard of the property and the body of Stephen Cumberland was found in a burnt out caravan on the property. 61-year-old Allan O'Connor is later arrested and charged with the murders.
> 
> *10 September 2015 – A 49-year-old woman is shot dead in a Mc Donald's restaurant in Gold Coast by her 57-year-old ex partner, who then turned the gun on himself afterwards and shot himself dead.*
> *2 October 2015 - 2015 Parramatta shooting* On 2 October 2015, Farhad Khalil Mohammad Jabar, a 15-year-old boy, shot and killed Curtis Cheng, an unarmed police civilian finance worker, outside the New South Wales Police Force headquarters in Parramatta, Australia. Jabar was subsequently shot and killed by special constables who were protecting the police station.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> tl;dr
> 
> 
> Australia has shown that gun confiscation works   22 years between major mass shootings would be a miracle in a second amendment country
Click to expand...



Yes....you read that list of public shootings after they banned and confiscated guns, then you lie about their gun control laws stopping mass public shootings......you really are a left winger, the truth just does not find a home in your brain.


----------



## 2aguy

cnm said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> hand guns are the easiest to get illegally since they are small and easy to conceal
> 
> 
> 
> How many times do you have to be told handguns are not easily available in Australia?
Click to expand...



From Australian journalists....

*Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.*


----------



## Rosy

Daryl Hunt said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now for the rest of the Story.  What was the Weapon and who or what stopped the killing.  You didn't finish the story.
Click to expand...


The story was breaking, you can read on your own I suppose


----------



## 2aguy

cnm said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> hand guns are the easiest to get illegally since they are small and easy to conceal
> 
> 
> 
> How many times do you have to be told handguns are not easily available in Australia?
Click to expand...



Here...notice the names of the gun smugglers.......and they aren't going away...

Busted: The gun-running syndicate that shocked Australian law enforcement


----------



## rightwinger

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish we could go 22 years between mass shootings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we ended democrat gun free zones we would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Australia bans guns and goes 22 years between mass shootings
> We keep our guns and can’t go 22 weeks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong, they didn't go 22 years between mass shootings, they have had over a dozen public shootings.  The only reason they aren't mass public shootings is the shooter......who had a gun in a public space and was shooting people.....didn't kill 4 or more people.  The actual standard according to obama was 3 people, and they didn't even kill that many in their public shootings....
> 
> Explain to us how these public shootings were kept from happening by the Australian gun control laws...had the shooters simply decided to shoot and kill more people, you couldn't keep lying about Australian gun control laws...
> 
> Which Australian gun control laws kept these shooters from walking into an Australian elementary school or high school?  Or a mall...oh, some of them did do just those things, they just didn't manage to murder 4 people......
> 
> Timeline of major crimes in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 16 January 1998 to 15 June 2009 – Melbourne gangland killings – A series of 35 murders of crime figures and their associates that began with the slaying of Alphonse Gangitano in his home, most likely by Jason Moran, the latest victim being Des Moran who was murdered in Ascot Vale on 15 June 2009.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 16 August 1998 – Victorian police officers Gary Silk and Rodney Miller were shot dead in an ambush by Bendali Debs and Jason Joseph Roberts in the Moorabbin Police murders.
> 
> *3 August 1999 – La Trobe University shooting – Jonathan Brett Horrocks walked into the cafeteria in La Trobe university in Melbourne Victoria armed with a 38 caliber revolver handgun and opened fire killing Leon Capraro the boss and manager off the cafeteria and wounding a woman who was a student at the university.*
> 
> 13 March 2000 – Millewa State Forest Murders – Barbara and Stephen Brooks and Stacie Willoughby were found dead, all three having been shot execution style and left in the forest.[60][61]
> 
> 26 May 2002 – A Vietnamese man walked into a Vietnamese wedding reception in Cabramatta Sydney, New South Wales armed with a handgun and opened fire wounding seven people.
> 
> 14 October 2002 – Dr. Margret Tobin, the South Australian head of Mental Health Services, was shot dead by Jean Eric Gassy as she walked out of a lift in her office building.
> *21 October 2002 – Monash University shooting – Huan Xiang opened fire in a tutorial room, killing two and injuring five.*
> 
> 25 October 2003 – Greenacre double murder – A man and a woman are shot dead in a house in the suburb of Greenacre, Sydney which was the result of a feud between two Middle Eastern crime families, 24-year-old Ziad Abdulrazak was shot 10 times in the chest and head and 22-year-old Mervat Hamka was shot twice in the neck while she slept in her bedroom, up to 100 shots were fired into the house from four men who were later arrested and convicted of the murders.
> 
> 26 July 2004 – Security guard Karen Brown shot dead armed robber William Aquilina in a Sydney carpark after he violently bashed her and stole the hotel's takings. Brown was charged with murder but acquitted on the grounds of self-defence.[66][67]
> 
> 
> *18 June 2007 – Melbourne CBD shooting – Christopher Wayne Hudson opened fire on three people, killing one and seriously wounding two others who intervened when Hudson was assaulting his girlfriend at a busy Melbourne intersection during the morning peak. He gave himself up to police in Wallan, Victoria on 20 June.[71]*
> 
> 10 April 2010 – Rajesh Osborne shot and killed his three children, 12 year-old Asia, 10-year-old Jarius and 7-year-old Grace before killing himself in Roxburgh, Victoria.[_citation needed_]
> 
> 28 April 2011 – 2011 Hectorville siege – Donato Anthony Corbo shot dead Kobus and Annetjie Snyman and their son-in-law Luc Mombers and seriously wounded Mr Mombers' 14-year-old son Marcel and a police officer at Hectorville, South Australia before being arrested after an eight-hour stand off.
> 1
> 
> 29 January 2012 – Giovanni Focarelli, son of Comancheros gang member Vincenzo Focarelli, was shot dead whilst Vincenzo survived the fourth attempt on his life.[79]
> 
> *28 April 2012 – A man opened fire in a busy shopping mall in Robina on the Gold Coast shooting Bandidos bikie Jacques Teamo. A woman who was an innocent bystander was also injured from a shotgun blast to the leg. Neither of the victims died, but the incident highlighted the recent increase in gun crime across major Australian cities including Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide.[citation needed]*
> 
> 23 May 2012 – Christopher 'Badness' Binse, a career criminal well known to police, was arrested after a 44-hour siege at an East Keilor home in Melbourne's north west. During the siege, Binse fired several shots at police and refused to co-operate with negotiators; eventually tear gas had to be used to force him out of the house, at which point he refused to put down his weapon and was then sprayed with a volley of non-lethal bullets.[_citation needed_]
> 
> 15 December 2012 – Aaron Carlino murdered drug dealer Stephen Cookson in his East Perth home by shooting him twice in the head and then he cut up and dismembered his body. He buried his arms legs and torso in the backyard of his house and he wrapped his head in a plastic bag and dumped it on Rottnest Island. The head of Cookson was later found washed up on Rottnest Island by an 11-year-old girl. Carlino was convicted of the murder and was sentenced to life in prison.[_citation needed_]
> *8 March 2013 – Queen Street mall siege – Lee Matthew Hiller entered the shopping mall on Queen Street Brisbane Queensland armed with a revolver and threatened shoppers and staff with the revolver, causing a 90-minute siege which ended when Hiller was shot and wounded in the arm by a police officer from the elite Specialist Emergency Response Team. Hiller was then later taken to hospital and was treated for his injury; he pleaded gulity to 20 charges and was sentenced to four-and-a-half years in jail with a non-parole period of two years and three months.[*_*c*itation needed_]
> 29 July 2013 – Two bikie gang associates, Vasko Boskovski and Bassil Hijazi were shot dead in two separate shooting incidents minutes apart in South West Sydney. The previous week Bassil Hijazi had survived a previous attempt against his life after he was shot inside his car.[_citation needed_]
> 
> *9 September 2014 – Lockhart massacre* – Geoff Hunt shot and killed his wife, Kim, his 10-year-old son Fletcher, and his daughters Mia, eight and Phoebe, six before killing himself on a farm in Lockhart in the Riverina district near Wagga Wagga New South Wales. The body of Geoff Hunt and a firearm are later found in a dam on the farm by police divers and a suicide note written by Geoff Hunt is also found inside the house on the farm.[_citation needed_]
> 
> *22 October 2014 – Wedderburn shootings* – Ian Jamieson shot dead Peter Lockhart, Peter's wife Mary and Mary's son Greg Holmes on two farm properties in Wedderburn, Victoria over a property dispute. Jamieson surrendered to police after a three-and-a-half hour siege.[_citation needed_]
> 7 November 2014 – Jordy Brook carjacked a Channel 7 news cameraman at gun point during a crime spree on the Sunshine Coast, Queensland. He was later captured and arrested by police after luring police on a high speed chase and crashing the car.[_citation needed_]
> 
> 12 November 2014 – Jamie Edwards and Joelene Joyce a married couple who were drug dealers are found shot dead in a car on a highway in the town of Moama, New South Wales.[86]
> 
> *15 December 2014 – 2014 Sydney hostage crisis – Seventeen people were taken hostage in a cafe in Martin Place, Sydney by Man Haron Monis. The hostage crisis was resolved in the early hours of 16 December, sixteen hours after it commenced, when armed police stormed the premises. Monis and two hostages were killed in the course of the crisis.[87]*
> 
> *27 June 2015 – Hermidale triple murder –* the bodies of three people, two men and a woman are found shot dead on a property in a rural farming community in the town of Hermidale west of Nyngan, the bodies of 28-year-old Jacob Cumberland his father 59-year-old Stephen Cumberland and a 36-year-old woman were found with gun shot wounds, the body of Jacob Cumberland was found on the drive way of the property, the body of the 36-year-old woman was found in the backyard of the property and the body of Stephen Cumberland was found in a burnt out caravan on the property. 61-year-old Allan O'Connor is later arrested and charged with the murders.
> 
> *10 September 2015 – A 49-year-old woman is shot dead in a Mc Donald's restaurant in Gold Coast by her 57-year-old ex partner, who then turned the gun on himself afterwards and shot himself dead.*
> *2 October 2015 - 2015 Parramatta shooting* On 2 October 2015, Farhad Khalil Mohammad Jabar, a 15-year-old boy, shot and killed Curtis Cheng, an unarmed police civilian finance worker, outside the New South Wales Police Force headquarters in Parramatta, Australia. Jabar was subsequently shot and killed by special constables who were protecting the police station.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> tl;dr
> 
> 
> Australia has shown that gun confiscation works   22 years between major mass shootings would be a miracle in a second amendment country
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes....you read that list of public shootings after they banned and confiscated guns, then you lie about their gun control laws stopping mass public shootings......you really are a left winger, the truth just does not find a home in your brain.
Click to expand...


Your list would not even make the papers in our gun loving country
Not enough blood


----------



## Rosy

Crepitus said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now for the rest of the Story.  What was the Weapon and who or what stopped the killing.  You didn't finish the story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Murder/suicide.  The shooter stopped himself.  No mention of what kinda gun.
> 
> Four children, three adults found shot dead in Margaret River murder-suicide
> 
> Google is your friend, you coulda figured this out for yourself.
Click to expand...


Australia has a point as the type of gun does not matter, dead is dead


----------



## Daryl Hunt

2aguy said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Straw man alert!  Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> 
> Except it isn't working that way in Britain or Australia, doofus.  In both countries gun crime is going up, not down, meanwhile, in the United States....gun crime, gun murder and violent crime is going down, while more Americans are owning and actually carrying guns.....
> 
> Your entire point is wrong......gun control in Britain?  More gun crime.  Gun control in Australia?  More gun crime.
> 
> More people carrying guns in the U.S.?  Gun murder down, gun crime down, violent crime down.
Click to expand...


In your mind only.  MOST people in the US do NOT carry guns.  You may dream about it but most don't carry guns at all.  In fact, most homes don't even have guns at all.  The bulk of the guns are owned by only a small percentage of the people who own multiple guns.  You use the total and spread it out over the entire population when it's only a small percentage that actually owns the guns.  

Australia's gun murder just went up.  7 murders in 22 years and that's it.  Rather than ding them for those 7 deaths, how about taking your hat off to them for the 22 years where there were Zero Gun Murders.  And then wish them another 22 years of no gun murders.


----------



## Crepitus

2aguy said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Straw man alert!  Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> 
> Except it isn't working that way in Britain or Australia, doofus.  In both countries gun crime is going up, not down, meanwhile, in the United States....gun crime, gun murder and violent crime is going down, while more Americans are owning and actually carrying guns.....
> 
> Your entire point is wrong......gun control in Britain?  More gun crime.  Gun control in Australia?  More gun crime.
> 
> More people carrying guns in the U.S.?  Gun murder down, gun crime down, violent crime down.
Click to expand...

Dude, wake up.  7 people is the worst shooting Australia has had in 22 years, it isn't even the worst one we've had this month!


----------



## rightwinger

Crepitus said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Straw man alert!  Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> 
> Except it isn't working that way in Britain or Australia, doofus.  In both countries gun crime is going up, not down, meanwhile, in the United States....gun crime, gun murder and violent crime is going down, while more Americans are owning and actually carrying guns.....
> 
> Your entire point is wrong......gun control in Britain?  More gun crime.  Gun control in Australia?  More gun crime.
> 
> More people carrying guns in the U.S.?  Gun murder down, gun crime down, violent crime down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, wake up.  7 people is the worst shooting Australia has had in 22 years, it isn't even the worst one we've had this month!
Click to expand...


----------



## 2aguy

Crepitus said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Straw man alert!  Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> 
> Except it isn't working that way in Britain or Australia, doofus.  In both countries gun crime is going up, not down, meanwhile, in the United States....gun crime, gun murder and violent crime is going down, while more Americans are owning and actually carrying guns.....
> 
> Your entire point is wrong......gun control in Britain?  More gun crime.  Gun control in Australia?  More gun crime.
> 
> More people carrying guns in the U.S.?  Gun murder down, gun crime down, violent crime down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, wake up.  7 people is the worst shooting Australia has had in 22 years, it isn't even the worst one we've had this month!
Click to expand...



They banned and confiscated guns....they are constantly used to say that their gun control laws work, and that is a lie.  They have had about 15 public shootings since the gun ban.....and their gun crime rate is going up, while ours is going down.

The truth is the truth.


----------



## 2aguy

Daryl Hunt said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Straw man alert!  Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> 
> Except it isn't working that way in Britain or Australia, doofus.  In both countries gun crime is going up, not down, meanwhile, in the United States....gun crime, gun murder and violent crime is going down, while more Americans are owning and actually carrying guns.....
> 
> Your entire point is wrong......gun control in Britain?  More gun crime.  Gun control in Australia?  More gun crime.
> 
> More people carrying guns in the U.S.?  Gun murder down, gun crime down, violent crime down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In your mind only.  MOST people in the US do NOT carry guns.  You may dream about it but most don't carry guns at all.  In fact, most homes don't even have guns at all.  The bulk of the guns are owned by only a small percentage of the people who own multiple guns.  You use the total and spread it out over the entire population when it's only a small percentage that actually owns the guns.
> 
> Australia's gun murder just went up.  7 murders in 22 years and that's it.  Rather than ding them for those 7 deaths, how about taking your hat off to them for the 22 years where there were Zero Gun Murders.  And then wish them another 22 years of no gun murders.
Click to expand...


they haven't had 0 gun murders and they have had about 15 public shootings since they banned and confiscated guns....and their gun crime rate is going up, not down....


----------



## Crepitus

2aguy said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> 
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Straw man alert!  Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> 
> Except it isn't working that way in Britain or Australia, doofus.  In both countries gun crime is going up, not down, meanwhile, in the United States....gun crime, gun murder and violent crime is going down, while more Americans are owning and actually carrying guns.....
> 
> Your entire point is wrong......gun control in Britain?  More gun crime.  Gun control in Australia?  More gun crime.
> 
> More people carrying guns in the U.S.?  Gun murder down, gun crime down, violent crime down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, wake up.  7 people is the worst shooting Australia has had in 22 years, it isn't even the worst one we've had this month!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They banned and confiscated guns....they are constantly used to say that their gun control laws work, and that is a lie.  They have had about 15 public shootings since the gun ban.....and their gun crime rate is going up, while ours is going down.
> 
> The truth is the truth.
Click to expand...

Lol, 15 shootings?  In 22 years?  We have more than that every day!

Could you be a little more dishonest?


----------



## Crepitus

2aguy said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> 
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Straw man alert!  Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> 
> Except it isn't working that way in Britain or Australia, doofus.  In both countries gun crime is going up, not down, meanwhile, in the United States....gun crime, gun murder and violent crime is going down, while more Americans are owning and actually carrying guns.....
> 
> Your entire point is wrong......gun control in Britain?  More gun crime.  Gun control in Australia?  More gun crime.
> 
> More people carrying guns in the U.S.?  Gun murder down, gun crime down, violent crime down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In your mind only.  MOST people in the US do NOT carry guns.  You may dream about it but most don't carry guns at all.  In fact, most homes don't even have guns at all.  The bulk of the guns are owned by only a small percentage of the people who own multiple guns.  You use the total and spread it out over the entire population when it's only a small percentage that actually owns the guns.
> 
> Australia's gun murder just went up.  7 murders in 22 years and that's it.  Rather than ding them for those 7 deaths, how about taking your hat off to them for the 22 years where there were Zero Gun Murders.  And then wish them another 22 years of no gun murders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> they haven't had 0 gun murders and they have had about 15 public shootings since they banned and confiscated guns....and their gun crime rate is going up, not down....
Click to expand...

Ah, the "liberals believe it will stop all shootings" straw man.  I believe we've already discussed this.


----------



## Daryl Hunt

Crepitus said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> 
> 
> Straw man alert!  Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> 
> Except it isn't working that way in Britain or Australia, doofus.  In both countries gun crime is going up, not down, meanwhile, in the United States....gun crime, gun murder and violent crime is going down, while more Americans are owning and actually carrying guns.....
> 
> Your entire point is wrong......gun control in Britain?  More gun crime.  Gun control in Australia?  More gun crime.
> 
> More people carrying guns in the U.S.?  Gun murder down, gun crime down, violent crime down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In your mind only.  MOST people in the US do NOT carry guns.  You may dream about it but most don't carry guns at all.  In fact, most homes don't even have guns at all.  The bulk of the guns are owned by only a small percentage of the people who own multiple guns.  You use the total and spread it out over the entire population when it's only a small percentage that actually owns the guns.
> 
> Australia's gun murder just went up.  7 murders in 22 years and that's it.  Rather than ding them for those 7 deaths, how about taking your hat off to them for the 22 years where there were Zero Gun Murders.  And then wish them another 22 years of no gun murders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> they haven't had 0 gun murders and they have had about 15 public shootings since they banned and confiscated guns....and their gun crime rate is going up, not down....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, the "liberals believe it will stop all shootings" straw man.  I believe we've already discussed this.
Click to expand...


Wow, 15 public shootings in 22 years.  Why, that's a friggin crime wave.  Chicago can have that many in a week.  If any large US City only got 15 in one year it would be cause for a parade except some idiot would be waiting along the way with an AR-15 to go for a new record.


----------



## 2aguy

Crepitus said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> 
> 
> Straw man alert!  Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> 
> Except it isn't working that way in Britain or Australia, doofus.  In both countries gun crime is going up, not down, meanwhile, in the United States....gun crime, gun murder and violent crime is going down, while more Americans are owning and actually carrying guns.....
> 
> Your entire point is wrong......gun control in Britain?  More gun crime.  Gun control in Australia?  More gun crime.
> 
> More people carrying guns in the U.S.?  Gun murder down, gun crime down, violent crime down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, wake up.  7 people is the worst shooting Australia has had in 22 years, it isn't even the worst one we've had this month!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They banned and confiscated guns....they are constantly used to say that their gun control laws work, and that is a lie.  They have had about 15 public shootings since the gun ban.....and their gun crime rate is going up, while ours is going down.
> 
> The truth is the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, 15 shootings?  In 22 years?  We have more than that every day!
> 
> Could you be a little more dishonest?
Click to expand...



What you willfully fail to understand is that Australia didn't have a lot of gun crime before they banned and confiscated guns, and they didn't have many public shootings before they banned and confiscated guns.....now, after they banned and confiscated guns, they still have public shootings and their gun crime rate is going up...

Meanwhile, we have more Americans who now own and carry guns and our gun crime rate, our gun murder rate and our violent crime rate has gone down, not up.....showing that your beliefs about guns are completely wrong...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


--* gun murder down 49%*

*--gun crime down 75%*

*--violent crime down 72%*

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

*And Australia?*

Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work | National Review

University of Melbourne researchers Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi concluded their 2008 report on the matter with the statement, “There is little evidence to suggest that [the Australian mandatory gun-buyback program] had any significant effects on firearm homicides.”

“Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical and sensible policy that helps to placate the public’s fears,” the reported continued, “the evidence so far suggests that in the Australian context, the high expenditure incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not translated into any tangible reductions in terms of firearm deaths.”

A 2007 report, “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” by Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran similarly concluded that the buyback program did not have a significant long-term effect on the Australian homicide rate.

The Australian gun-homicide rate had already been quite low and had been steadily falling in the 15 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre. And while the mandatory buyback program did appear to reduce the rate of _accidental_ firearm deaths, Baker and McPhedran found that “the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia.”

=======

2007 report..

http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Baker and McPhedran 2007.pdf

Conclusions Examination of the long-term trends indicated that the only category of sudden death that may have been influenced by the introduction of the NFA was firearm suicide
------

However, this effect must be considered in light of the findings for suicide (non-firearm). Homicide patterns (firearm and non-firearm) were not influenced by the NFA, the conclusion being that the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia. The introduction of the NFA appeared to have a negative effect on accidental firearm death. However, over the time period investigated, there was a relatively small number of accidental deaths per annum, with substantial variability. Any conclusions regarding the effect of the NFA on accidental firearm death should be approached with caution
=========

2008 report...


http://c8.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Lee and Suardi 2008.pdf

In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates. 
-------

6. Conclusion 

This paper takes a closer look at the effects of the National Firearms Agreement on gun deaths. Using a battery of structural break tests, there is little evidence to suggest that it had any significant effects on firearm homicides and suicides. In addition, there also does not appear to be any substitution effects – that reduced access to firearms may have led those bent on committing homicide or suicide to use alternative methods.


Australia’s Gun 'Buyback' Created a Violent Firearms Black Market. Why Should the U.S. Do the Same?

Just days ago, Australia's Peter Dutton, Minister for Immigration and Border Protection, and Michael Keenan, Minister for Justice, held a joint press conference to announce "We don't tolerate gun smuggling in Australia and we know Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs are engaged in it. We have been keen to send the strongest possible message from Canberra that we're not going to tolerate people smuggling in guns or smuggling in gun parts. You'd appreciate that even one smuggled gun can do an enormous amount of damage."

When politicians announce that they don't tolerate something, it's a fair bet that the something is completely out of hand.

"Police admit they cannot eradicate a black market that is peddling illegal guns to criminals," the _Adelaide Advertiser_ concededa few years ago. "Motorcycle gang members and convicted criminals barred from buying guns in South Australia have no difficulty obtaining illegal firearms - including fully automatic weapons."

*More recently, the country's The New Daily gained access to "previously unpublished data for firearms offences" and reporteda surge in crime "including a massive 83 per cent increase in firearms offences in NSW between 2005/06 and 2014/15, and an even bigger jump in Victoria over the same period."*

"Australians may be more at risk from gun crime than ever before with the country's underground market for firearms ballooning in the past decade," the report added. "[T]he national ban on semi-automatic weapons following the Port Arthur massacre had spawned criminal demand for handguns."

Much as the Mafia and other organized criminal outfits rose to power, wealth, and prominence by supplying illegal liquor during Prohibition in the United States, outlaw motorcycle gangs in Australia appear to be building international connections and making money by supplying guns to willing buyers.


----------



## rightwinger

2aguy said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> 
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Straw man alert!  Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> 
> Except it isn't working that way in Britain or Australia, doofus.  In both countries gun crime is going up, not down, meanwhile, in the United States....gun crime, gun murder and violent crime is going down, while more Americans are owning and actually carrying guns.....
> 
> Your entire point is wrong......gun control in Britain?  More gun crime.  Gun control in Australia?  More gun crime.
> 
> More people carrying guns in the U.S.?  Gun murder down, gun crime down, violent crime down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, wake up.  7 people is the worst shooting Australia has had in 22 years, it isn't even the worst one we've had this month!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They banned and confiscated guns....they are constantly used to say that their gun control laws work, and that is a lie.  They have had about 15 public shootings since the gun ban.....and their gun crime rate is going up, while ours is going down.
> 
> The truth is the truth.
Click to expand...

15 shootings?  We get that on a weekend

The gun ban kept them safe


----------



## 2aguy

Crepitus said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> 
> 
> Straw man alert!  Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> 
> Except it isn't working that way in Britain or Australia, doofus.  In both countries gun crime is going up, not down, meanwhile, in the United States....gun crime, gun murder and violent crime is going down, while more Americans are owning and actually carrying guns.....
> 
> Your entire point is wrong......gun control in Britain?  More gun crime.  Gun control in Australia?  More gun crime.
> 
> More people carrying guns in the U.S.?  Gun murder down, gun crime down, violent crime down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In your mind only.  MOST people in the US do NOT carry guns.  You may dream about it but most don't carry guns at all.  In fact, most homes don't even have guns at all.  The bulk of the guns are owned by only a small percentage of the people who own multiple guns.  You use the total and spread it out over the entire population when it's only a small percentage that actually owns the guns.
> 
> Australia's gun murder just went up.  7 murders in 22 years and that's it.  Rather than ding them for those 7 deaths, how about taking your hat off to them for the 22 years where there were Zero Gun Murders.  And then wish them another 22 years of no gun murders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> they haven't had 0 gun murders and they have had about 15 public shootings since they banned and confiscated guns....and their gun crime rate is going up, not down....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, the "liberals believe it will stop all shootings" straw man.  I believe we've already discussed this.
Click to expand...


Nope....the liberals saying gun confiscation and banning guns would lower the gun crime rate.....and it went up, not down....that is the issue.......you asshats are the ones who claim we say it will get rid of all shootings, so that you don't have to face the truth that gun crime is going up in Britain, Australia, Europe, Canada after they banned and confiscated guns...

While here?  Our gun murder rate has gone down, our gun crime rate has gone down, our violent crime rate has gone down.


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> 
> 
> Straw man alert!  Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> 
> Except it isn't working that way in Britain or Australia, doofus.  In both countries gun crime is going up, not down, meanwhile, in the United States....gun crime, gun murder and violent crime is going down, while more Americans are owning and actually carrying guns.....
> 
> Your entire point is wrong......gun control in Britain?  More gun crime.  Gun control in Australia?  More gun crime.
> 
> More people carrying guns in the U.S.?  Gun murder down, gun crime down, violent crime down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, wake up.  7 people is the worst shooting Australia has had in 22 years, it isn't even the worst one we've had this month!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They banned and confiscated guns....they are constantly used to say that their gun control laws work, and that is a lie.  They have had about 15 public shootings since the gun ban.....and their gun crime rate is going up, while ours is going down.
> 
> The truth is the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 15 shootings?  We get that on a weekend
> 
> The gun ban kept them safe
Click to expand...



Yeah...no.   They didn't have that many before they banned and confiscated guns......now they have public shootings as often as they did before the ban.....luck is not going to hold.....


----------



## Crepitus

2aguy said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Straw man alert!  Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> 
> Except it isn't working that way in Britain or Australia, doofus.  In both countries gun crime is going up, not down, meanwhile, in the United States....gun crime, gun murder and violent crime is going down, while more Americans are owning and actually carrying guns.....
> 
> Your entire point is wrong......gun control in Britain?  More gun crime.  Gun control in Australia?  More gun crime.
> 
> More people carrying guns in the U.S.?  Gun murder down, gun crime down, violent crime down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, wake up.  7 people is the worst shooting Australia has had in 22 years, it isn't even the worst one we've had this month!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They banned and confiscated guns....they are constantly used to say that their gun control laws work, and that is a lie.  They have had about 15 public shootings since the gun ban.....and their gun crime rate is going up, while ours is going down.
> 
> The truth is the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, 15 shootings?  In 22 years?  We have more than that every day!
> 
> Could you be a little more dishonest?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What you willfully fail to understand is that Australia didn't have a lot of gun crime before they banned and confiscated guns, and they didn't have many public shootings before they banned and confiscated guns.....now, after they banned and confiscated guns, they still have public shootings and their gun crime rate is going up...
> 
> Meanwhile, we have more Americans who now own and carry guns and our gun crime rate, our gun murder rate and our violent crime rate has gone down, not up.....showing that your beliefs about guns are completely wrong...
> 
> We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
> 
> 
> --* gun murder down 49%*
> 
> *--gun crime down 75%*
> 
> *--violent crime down 72%*
> 
> Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware
> 
> Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
> 
> *And Australia?*
> 
> Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work | National Review
> 
> University of Melbourne researchers Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi concluded their 2008 report on the matter with the statement, “There is little evidence to suggest that [the Australian mandatory gun-buyback program] had any significant effects on firearm homicides.”
> 
> “Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical and sensible policy that helps to placate the public’s fears,” the reported continued, “the evidence so far suggests that in the Australian context, the high expenditure incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not translated into any tangible reductions in terms of firearm deaths.”
> 
> A 2007 report, “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” by Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran similarly concluded that the buyback program did not have a significant long-term effect on the Australian homicide rate.
> 
> The Australian gun-homicide rate had already been quite low and had been steadily falling in the 15 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre. And while the mandatory buyback program did appear to reduce the rate of _accidental_ firearm deaths, Baker and McPhedran found that “the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia.”
> 
> =======
> 
> 2007 report..
> 
> http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Baker and McPhedran 2007.pdf
> 
> Conclusions Examination of the long-term trends indicated that the only category of sudden death that may have been influenced by the introduction of the NFA was firearm suicide
> ------
> 
> However, this effect must be considered in light of the findings for suicide (non-firearm). Homicide patterns (firearm and non-firearm) were not influenced by the NFA, the conclusion being that the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia. The introduction of the NFA appeared to have a negative effect on accidental firearm death. However, over the time period investigated, there was a relatively small number of accidental deaths per annum, with substantial variability. Any conclusions regarding the effect of the NFA on accidental firearm death should be approached with caution
> =========
> 
> 2008 report...
> 
> 
> http://c8.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Lee and Suardi 2008.pdf
> 
> In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates.
> -------
> 
> 6. Conclusion
> 
> This paper takes a closer look at the effects of the National Firearms Agreement on gun deaths. Using a battery of structural break tests, there is little evidence to suggest that it had any significant effects on firearm homicides and suicides. In addition, there also does not appear to be any substitution effects – that reduced access to firearms may have led those bent on committing homicide or suicide to use alternative methods.
> 
> 
> Australia’s Gun 'Buyback' Created a Violent Firearms Black Market. Why Should the U.S. Do the Same?
> 
> Just days ago, Australia's Peter Dutton, Minister for Immigration and Border Protection, and Michael Keenan, Minister for Justice, held a joint press conference to announce "We don't tolerate gun smuggling in Australia and we know Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs are engaged in it. We have been keen to send the strongest possible message from Canberra that we're not going to tolerate people smuggling in guns or smuggling in gun parts. You'd appreciate that even one smuggled gun can do an enormous amount of damage."
> 
> When politicians announce that they don't tolerate something, it's a fair bet that the something is completely out of hand.
> 
> "Police admit they cannot eradicate a black market that is peddling illegal guns to criminals," the _Adelaide Advertiser_ concededa few years ago. "Motorcycle gang members and convicted criminals barred from buying guns in South Australia have no difficulty obtaining illegal firearms - including fully automatic weapons."
> 
> *More recently, the country's The New Daily gained access to "previously unpublished data for firearms offences" and reporteda surge in crime "including a massive 83 per cent increase in firearms offences in NSW between 2005/06 and 2014/15, and an even bigger jump in Victoria over the same period."*
> 
> "Australians may be more at risk from gun crime than ever before with the country's underground market for firearms ballooning in the past decade," the report added. "[T]he national ban on semi-automatic weapons following the Port Arthur massacre had spawned criminal demand for handguns."
> 
> Much as the Mafia and other organized criminal outfits rose to power, wealth, and prominence by supplying illegal liquor during Prohibition in the United States, outlaw motorcycle gangs in Australia appear to be building international connections and making money by supplying guns to willing buyers.
Click to expand...

Dude, reposting the same nonsense every time this comes up doesn't make it any less nonsensical.  You need some new material.  You should start by looking for things that are true.


----------



## 2aguy

Crepitus said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> 
> Except it isn't working that way in Britain or Australia, doofus.  In both countries gun crime is going up, not down, meanwhile, in the United States....gun crime, gun murder and violent crime is going down, while more Americans are owning and actually carrying guns.....
> 
> Your entire point is wrong......gun control in Britain?  More gun crime.  Gun control in Australia?  More gun crime.
> 
> More people carrying guns in the U.S.?  Gun murder down, gun crime down, violent crime down.
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, wake up.  7 people is the worst shooting Australia has had in 22 years, it isn't even the worst one we've had this month!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They banned and confiscated guns....they are constantly used to say that their gun control laws work, and that is a lie.  They have had about 15 public shootings since the gun ban.....and their gun crime rate is going up, while ours is going down.
> 
> The truth is the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, 15 shootings?  In 22 years?  We have more than that every day!
> 
> Could you be a little more dishonest?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What you willfully fail to understand is that Australia didn't have a lot of gun crime before they banned and confiscated guns, and they didn't have many public shootings before they banned and confiscated guns.....now, after they banned and confiscated guns, they still have public shootings and their gun crime rate is going up...
> 
> Meanwhile, we have more Americans who now own and carry guns and our gun crime rate, our gun murder rate and our violent crime rate has gone down, not up.....showing that your beliefs about guns are completely wrong...
> 
> We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
> 
> 
> --* gun murder down 49%*
> 
> *--gun crime down 75%*
> 
> *--violent crime down 72%*
> 
> Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware
> 
> Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
> 
> *And Australia?*
> 
> Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work | National Review
> 
> University of Melbourne researchers Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi concluded their 2008 report on the matter with the statement, “There is little evidence to suggest that [the Australian mandatory gun-buyback program] had any significant effects on firearm homicides.”
> 
> “Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical and sensible policy that helps to placate the public’s fears,” the reported continued, “the evidence so far suggests that in the Australian context, the high expenditure incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not translated into any tangible reductions in terms of firearm deaths.”
> 
> A 2007 report, “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” by Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran similarly concluded that the buyback program did not have a significant long-term effect on the Australian homicide rate.
> 
> The Australian gun-homicide rate had already been quite low and had been steadily falling in the 15 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre. And while the mandatory buyback program did appear to reduce the rate of _accidental_ firearm deaths, Baker and McPhedran found that “the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia.”
> 
> =======
> 
> 2007 report..
> 
> http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Baker and McPhedran 2007.pdf
> 
> Conclusions Examination of the long-term trends indicated that the only category of sudden death that may have been influenced by the introduction of the NFA was firearm suicide
> ------
> 
> However, this effect must be considered in light of the findings for suicide (non-firearm). Homicide patterns (firearm and non-firearm) were not influenced by the NFA, the conclusion being that the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia. The introduction of the NFA appeared to have a negative effect on accidental firearm death. However, over the time period investigated, there was a relatively small number of accidental deaths per annum, with substantial variability. Any conclusions regarding the effect of the NFA on accidental firearm death should be approached with caution
> =========
> 
> 2008 report...
> 
> 
> http://c8.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Lee and Suardi 2008.pdf
> 
> In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates.
> -------
> 
> 6. Conclusion
> 
> This paper takes a closer look at the effects of the National Firearms Agreement on gun deaths. Using a battery of structural break tests, there is little evidence to suggest that it had any significant effects on firearm homicides and suicides. In addition, there also does not appear to be any substitution effects – that reduced access to firearms may have led those bent on committing homicide or suicide to use alternative methods.
> 
> 
> Australia’s Gun 'Buyback' Created a Violent Firearms Black Market. Why Should the U.S. Do the Same?
> 
> Just days ago, Australia's Peter Dutton, Minister for Immigration and Border Protection, and Michael Keenan, Minister for Justice, held a joint press conference to announce "We don't tolerate gun smuggling in Australia and we know Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs are engaged in it. We have been keen to send the strongest possible message from Canberra that we're not going to tolerate people smuggling in guns or smuggling in gun parts. You'd appreciate that even one smuggled gun can do an enormous amount of damage."
> 
> When politicians announce that they don't tolerate something, it's a fair bet that the something is completely out of hand.
> 
> "Police admit they cannot eradicate a black market that is peddling illegal guns to criminals," the _Adelaide Advertiser_ concededa few years ago. "Motorcycle gang members and convicted criminals barred from buying guns in South Australia have no difficulty obtaining illegal firearms - including fully automatic weapons."
> 
> *More recently, the country's The New Daily gained access to "previously unpublished data for firearms offences" and reporteda surge in crime "including a massive 83 per cent increase in firearms offences in NSW between 2005/06 and 2014/15, and an even bigger jump in Victoria over the same period."*
> 
> "Australians may be more at risk from gun crime than ever before with the country's underground market for firearms ballooning in the past decade," the report added. "[T]he national ban on semi-automatic weapons following the Port Arthur massacre had spawned criminal demand for handguns."
> 
> Much as the Mafia and other organized criminal outfits rose to power, wealth, and prominence by supplying illegal liquor during Prohibition in the United States, outlaw motorcycle gangs in Australia appear to be building international connections and making money by supplying guns to willing buyers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, reposting the same nonsense every time this comes up doesn't make it any less nonsensical.  You need some new material.  You should start by looking for things that are true.
Click to expand...



The truth is the truth, Australian gun control did not stop public shootings and it didn't lower the gun crime rate....now, the gun crime rate there is going up, as they bring in more and more 3rd world drug gangs.....


----------



## Daryl Hunt

2aguy said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Straw man alert!  Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> 
> Except it isn't working that way in Britain or Australia, doofus.  In both countries gun crime is going up, not down, meanwhile, in the United States....gun crime, gun murder and violent crime is going down, while more Americans are owning and actually carrying guns.....
> 
> Your entire point is wrong......gun control in Britain?  More gun crime.  Gun control in Australia?  More gun crime.
> 
> More people carrying guns in the U.S.?  Gun murder down, gun crime down, violent crime down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, wake up.  7 people is the worst shooting Australia has had in 22 years, it isn't even the worst one we've had this month!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They banned and confiscated guns....they are constantly used to say that their gun control laws work, and that is a lie.  They have had about 15 public shootings since the gun ban.....and their gun crime rate is going up, while ours is going down.
> 
> The truth is the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, 15 shootings?  In 22 years?  We have more than that every day!
> 
> Could you be a little more dishonest?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What you willfully fail to understand is that Australia didn't have a lot of gun crime before they banned and confiscated guns, and they didn't have many public shootings before they banned and confiscated guns.....now, after they banned and confiscated guns, they still have public shootings and their gun crime rate is going up...
> 
> Meanwhile, we have more Americans who now own and carry guns and our gun crime rate, our gun murder rate and our violent crime rate has gone down, not up.....showing that your beliefs about guns are completely wrong...
> 
> We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
> 
> 
> --* gun murder down 49%*
> 
> *--gun crime down 75%*
> 
> *--violent crime down 72%*
> 
> Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware
> 
> Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
> 
> *And Australia?*
> 
> Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work | National Review
> 
> University of Melbourne researchers Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi concluded their 2008 report on the matter with the statement, “There is little evidence to suggest that [the Australian mandatory gun-buyback program] had any significant effects on firearm homicides.”
> 
> “Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical and sensible policy that helps to placate the public’s fears,” the reported continued, “the evidence so far suggests that in the Australian context, the high expenditure incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not translated into any tangible reductions in terms of firearm deaths.”
> 
> A 2007 report, “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” by Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran similarly concluded that the buyback program did not have a significant long-term effect on the Australian homicide rate.
> 
> The Australian gun-homicide rate had already been quite low and had been steadily falling in the 15 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre. And while the mandatory buyback program did appear to reduce the rate of _accidental_ firearm deaths, Baker and McPhedran found that “the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia.”
> 
> =======
> 
> 2007 report..
> 
> http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Baker and McPhedran 2007.pdf
> 
> Conclusions Examination of the long-term trends indicated that the only category of sudden death that may have been influenced by the introduction of the NFA was firearm suicide
> ------
> 
> However, this effect must be considered in light of the findings for suicide (non-firearm). Homicide patterns (firearm and non-firearm) were not influenced by the NFA, the conclusion being that the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia. The introduction of the NFA appeared to have a negative effect on accidental firearm death. However, over the time period investigated, there was a relatively small number of accidental deaths per annum, with substantial variability. Any conclusions regarding the effect of the NFA on accidental firearm death should be approached with caution
> =========
> 
> 2008 report...
> 
> 
> http://c8.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Lee and Suardi 2008.pdf
> 
> In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates.
> -------
> 
> 6. Conclusion
> 
> This paper takes a closer look at the effects of the National Firearms Agreement on gun deaths. Using a battery of structural break tests, there is little evidence to suggest that it had any significant effects on firearm homicides and suicides. In addition, there also does not appear to be any substitution effects – that reduced access to firearms may have led those bent on committing homicide or suicide to use alternative methods.
> 
> 
> Australia’s Gun 'Buyback' Created a Violent Firearms Black Market. Why Should the U.S. Do the Same?
> 
> Just days ago, Australia's Peter Dutton, Minister for Immigration and Border Protection, and Michael Keenan, Minister for Justice, held a joint press conference to announce "We don't tolerate gun smuggling in Australia and we know Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs are engaged in it. We have been keen to send the strongest possible message from Canberra that we're not going to tolerate people smuggling in guns or smuggling in gun parts. You'd appreciate that even one smuggled gun can do an enormous amount of damage."
> 
> When politicians announce that they don't tolerate something, it's a fair bet that the something is completely out of hand.
> 
> "Police admit they cannot eradicate a black market that is peddling illegal guns to criminals," the _Adelaide Advertiser_ concededa few years ago. "Motorcycle gang members and convicted criminals barred from buying guns in South Australia have no difficulty obtaining illegal firearms - including fully automatic weapons."
> 
> *More recently, the country's The New Daily gained access to "previously unpublished data for firearms offences" and reporteda surge in crime "including a massive 83 per cent increase in firearms offences in NSW between 2005/06 and 2014/15, and an even bigger jump in Victoria over the same period."*
> 
> "Australians may be more at risk from gun crime than ever before with the country's underground market for firearms ballooning in the past decade," the report added. "[T]he national ban on semi-automatic weapons following the Port Arthur massacre had spawned criminal demand for handguns."
> 
> Much as the Mafia and other organized criminal outfits rose to power, wealth, and prominence by supplying illegal liquor during Prohibition in the United States, outlaw motorcycle gangs in Australia appear to be building international connections and making money by supplying guns to willing buyers.
Click to expand...


Using cites from ultra right wing sources (yes, I did research the sites and their leaders) doesn't make you look real good.  They are using the same old bag of lies over and over again and you are just reposting them over and over again.

Australia isn't the US.  15 gun related murders in 22 years and only one multiple (family shooting) in 22 years is quite acceptable for almost any country.  Hell, that's actually acceptable for most medium Cities in the US and many Rural areas as well.  And that is for an entire country.  If you are trying to strike up some alarm here, the only alarm we are getting is how desperate you are.  If that is the case then you have accomplished your mission.  You can now admit victory and go home.


----------



## 2aguy

Daryl Hunt said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> 
> Except it isn't working that way in Britain or Australia, doofus.  In both countries gun crime is going up, not down, meanwhile, in the United States....gun crime, gun murder and violent crime is going down, while more Americans are owning and actually carrying guns.....
> 
> Your entire point is wrong......gun control in Britain?  More gun crime.  Gun control in Australia?  More gun crime.
> 
> More people carrying guns in the U.S.?  Gun murder down, gun crime down, violent crime down.
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, wake up.  7 people is the worst shooting Australia has had in 22 years, it isn't even the worst one we've had this month!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They banned and confiscated guns....they are constantly used to say that their gun control laws work, and that is a lie.  They have had about 15 public shootings since the gun ban.....and their gun crime rate is going up, while ours is going down.
> 
> The truth is the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, 15 shootings?  In 22 years?  We have more than that every day!
> 
> Could you be a little more dishonest?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What you willfully fail to understand is that Australia didn't have a lot of gun crime before they banned and confiscated guns, and they didn't have many public shootings before they banned and confiscated guns.....now, after they banned and confiscated guns, they still have public shootings and their gun crime rate is going up...
> 
> Meanwhile, we have more Americans who now own and carry guns and our gun crime rate, our gun murder rate and our violent crime rate has gone down, not up.....showing that your beliefs about guns are completely wrong...
> 
> We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
> 
> 
> --* gun murder down 49%*
> 
> *--gun crime down 75%*
> 
> *--violent crime down 72%*
> 
> Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware
> 
> Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
> 
> *And Australia?*
> 
> Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work | National Review
> 
> University of Melbourne researchers Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi concluded their 2008 report on the matter with the statement, “There is little evidence to suggest that [the Australian mandatory gun-buyback program] had any significant effects on firearm homicides.”
> 
> “Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical and sensible policy that helps to placate the public’s fears,” the reported continued, “the evidence so far suggests that in the Australian context, the high expenditure incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not translated into any tangible reductions in terms of firearm deaths.”
> 
> A 2007 report, “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” by Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran similarly concluded that the buyback program did not have a significant long-term effect on the Australian homicide rate.
> 
> The Australian gun-homicide rate had already been quite low and had been steadily falling in the 15 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre. And while the mandatory buyback program did appear to reduce the rate of _accidental_ firearm deaths, Baker and McPhedran found that “the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia.”
> 
> =======
> 
> 2007 report..
> 
> http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Baker and McPhedran 2007.pdf
> 
> Conclusions Examination of the long-term trends indicated that the only category of sudden death that may have been influenced by the introduction of the NFA was firearm suicide
> ------
> 
> However, this effect must be considered in light of the findings for suicide (non-firearm). Homicide patterns (firearm and non-firearm) were not influenced by the NFA, the conclusion being that the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia. The introduction of the NFA appeared to have a negative effect on accidental firearm death. However, over the time period investigated, there was a relatively small number of accidental deaths per annum, with substantial variability. Any conclusions regarding the effect of the NFA on accidental firearm death should be approached with caution
> =========
> 
> 2008 report...
> 
> 
> http://c8.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Lee and Suardi 2008.pdf
> 
> In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates.
> -------
> 
> 6. Conclusion
> 
> This paper takes a closer look at the effects of the National Firearms Agreement on gun deaths. Using a battery of structural break tests, there is little evidence to suggest that it had any significant effects on firearm homicides and suicides. In addition, there also does not appear to be any substitution effects – that reduced access to firearms may have led those bent on committing homicide or suicide to use alternative methods.
> 
> 
> Australia’s Gun 'Buyback' Created a Violent Firearms Black Market. Why Should the U.S. Do the Same?
> 
> Just days ago, Australia's Peter Dutton, Minister for Immigration and Border Protection, and Michael Keenan, Minister for Justice, held a joint press conference to announce "We don't tolerate gun smuggling in Australia and we know Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs are engaged in it. We have been keen to send the strongest possible message from Canberra that we're not going to tolerate people smuggling in guns or smuggling in gun parts. You'd appreciate that even one smuggled gun can do an enormous amount of damage."
> 
> When politicians announce that they don't tolerate something, it's a fair bet that the something is completely out of hand.
> 
> "Police admit they cannot eradicate a black market that is peddling illegal guns to criminals," the _Adelaide Advertiser_ concededa few years ago. "Motorcycle gang members and convicted criminals barred from buying guns in South Australia have no difficulty obtaining illegal firearms - including fully automatic weapons."
> 
> *More recently, the country's The New Daily gained access to "previously unpublished data for firearms offences" and reporteda surge in crime "including a massive 83 per cent increase in firearms offences in NSW between 2005/06 and 2014/15, and an even bigger jump in Victoria over the same period."*
> 
> "Australians may be more at risk from gun crime than ever before with the country's underground market for firearms ballooning in the past decade," the report added. "[T]he national ban on semi-automatic weapons following the Port Arthur massacre had spawned criminal demand for handguns."
> 
> Much as the Mafia and other organized criminal outfits rose to power, wealth, and prominence by supplying illegal liquor during Prohibition in the United States, outlaw motorcycle gangs in Australia appear to be building international connections and making money by supplying guns to willing buyers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Using cites from ultra right wing sources (yes, I did research the sites and their leaders) doesn't make you look real good.  They are using the same old bag of lies over and over again and you are just reposting them over and over again.
> 
> Australia isn't the US.  15 gun related murders in 22 years and only one multiple (family shooting) in 22 years is quite acceptable for almost any country.  Hell, that's actually acceptable for most medium Cities in the US and many Rural areas as well.  And that is for an entire country.  If you are trying to strike up some alarm here, the only alarm we are getting is how desperate you are.  If that is the case then you have accomplished your mission.  You can now admit victory and go home.
Click to expand...


Pew is Right Wing...and the Australian news sources are Right Wing?  The goal of their confiscation was to end public shootings, they didn't end.  The goal of confiscation was to lower the gun crime rate, it is going up.  Australia already had lower rates than the United States before they banned and confiscated guns...... banning and confiscating guns didn't change their public shooting rate, and it didn't lower their gun crime rate......they achieved nothing by disarming law abiding people.

Meanwhile, here..... according to Pew...... as more Americans own and carry guns...all of our violent crime categories have gone down.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


--* gun murder down 49%*

*--gun crime down 75%*

*--violent crime down 72%*

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


----------



## Anathema

cnm said:


> Yes. You consider the deaths of other people's school kids an acceptable price to pay for your easy access to handguns and military style semi automatics. Too selfish.



The death of anyone yo stupid to provide for their defense is not my concern. They allow themselves and their families to be slaughtered like lambs .I will not do the same.


----------



## Crepitus

2aguy said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, wake up.  7 people is the worst shooting Australia has had in 22 years, it isn't even the worst one we've had this month!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They banned and confiscated guns....they are constantly used to say that their gun control laws work, and that is a lie.  They have had about 15 public shootings since the gun ban.....and their gun crime rate is going up, while ours is going down.
> 
> The truth is the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, 15 shootings?  In 22 years?  We have more than that every day!
> 
> Could you be a little more dishonest?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What you willfully fail to understand is that Australia didn't have a lot of gun crime before they banned and confiscated guns, and they didn't have many public shootings before they banned and confiscated guns.....now, after they banned and confiscated guns, they still have public shootings and their gun crime rate is going up...
> 
> Meanwhile, we have more Americans who now own and carry guns and our gun crime rate, our gun murder rate and our violent crime rate has gone down, not up.....showing that your beliefs about guns are completely wrong...
> 
> We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
> 
> 
> --* gun murder down 49%*
> 
> *--gun crime down 75%*
> 
> *--violent crime down 72%*
> 
> Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware
> 
> Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
> 
> *And Australia?*
> 
> Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work | National Review
> 
> University of Melbourne researchers Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi concluded their 2008 report on the matter with the statement, “There is little evidence to suggest that [the Australian mandatory gun-buyback program] had any significant effects on firearm homicides.”
> 
> “Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical and sensible policy that helps to placate the public’s fears,” the reported continued, “the evidence so far suggests that in the Australian context, the high expenditure incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not translated into any tangible reductions in terms of firearm deaths.”
> 
> A 2007 report, “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” by Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran similarly concluded that the buyback program did not have a significant long-term effect on the Australian homicide rate.
> 
> The Australian gun-homicide rate had already been quite low and had been steadily falling in the 15 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre. And while the mandatory buyback program did appear to reduce the rate of _accidental_ firearm deaths, Baker and McPhedran found that “the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia.”
> 
> =======
> 
> 2007 report..
> 
> http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Baker and McPhedran 2007.pdf
> 
> Conclusions Examination of the long-term trends indicated that the only category of sudden death that may have been influenced by the introduction of the NFA was firearm suicide
> ------
> 
> However, this effect must be considered in light of the findings for suicide (non-firearm). Homicide patterns (firearm and non-firearm) were not influenced by the NFA, the conclusion being that the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia. The introduction of the NFA appeared to have a negative effect on accidental firearm death. However, over the time period investigated, there was a relatively small number of accidental deaths per annum, with substantial variability. Any conclusions regarding the effect of the NFA on accidental firearm death should be approached with caution
> =========
> 
> 2008 report...
> 
> 
> http://c8.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Lee and Suardi 2008.pdf
> 
> In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates.
> -------
> 
> 6. Conclusion
> 
> This paper takes a closer look at the effects of the National Firearms Agreement on gun deaths. Using a battery of structural break tests, there is little evidence to suggest that it had any significant effects on firearm homicides and suicides. In addition, there also does not appear to be any substitution effects – that reduced access to firearms may have led those bent on committing homicide or suicide to use alternative methods.
> 
> 
> Australia’s Gun 'Buyback' Created a Violent Firearms Black Market. Why Should the U.S. Do the Same?
> 
> Just days ago, Australia's Peter Dutton, Minister for Immigration and Border Protection, and Michael Keenan, Minister for Justice, held a joint press conference to announce "We don't tolerate gun smuggling in Australia and we know Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs are engaged in it. We have been keen to send the strongest possible message from Canberra that we're not going to tolerate people smuggling in guns or smuggling in gun parts. You'd appreciate that even one smuggled gun can do an enormous amount of damage."
> 
> When politicians announce that they don't tolerate something, it's a fair bet that the something is completely out of hand.
> 
> "Police admit they cannot eradicate a black market that is peddling illegal guns to criminals," the _Adelaide Advertiser_ concededa few years ago. "Motorcycle gang members and convicted criminals barred from buying guns in South Australia have no difficulty obtaining illegal firearms - including fully automatic weapons."
> 
> *More recently, the country's The New Daily gained access to "previously unpublished data for firearms offences" and reporteda surge in crime "including a massive 83 per cent increase in firearms offences in NSW between 2005/06 and 2014/15, and an even bigger jump in Victoria over the same period."*
> 
> "Australians may be more at risk from gun crime than ever before with the country's underground market for firearms ballooning in the past decade," the report added. "[T]he national ban on semi-automatic weapons following the Port Arthur massacre had spawned criminal demand for handguns."
> 
> Much as the Mafia and other organized criminal outfits rose to power, wealth, and prominence by supplying illegal liquor during Prohibition in the United States, outlaw motorcycle gangs in Australia appear to be building international connections and making money by supplying guns to willing buyers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, reposting the same nonsense every time this comes up doesn't make it any less nonsensical.  You need some new material.  You should start by looking for things that are true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The truth is the truth, Australian gun control did not stop public shootings and it didn't lower the gun crime rate....now, the gun crime rate there is going up, as they bring in more and more 3rd world drug gangs.....
Click to expand...

It's funny when someone who consistently posts fake information says things like "the truth is the thruth".


----------



## 2aguy

Crepitus said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> They banned and confiscated guns....they are constantly used to say that their gun control laws work, and that is a lie.  They have had about 15 public shootings since the gun ban.....and their gun crime rate is going up, while ours is going down.
> 
> The truth is the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, 15 shootings?  In 22 years?  We have more than that every day!
> 
> Could you be a little more dishonest?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What you willfully fail to understand is that Australia didn't have a lot of gun crime before they banned and confiscated guns, and they didn't have many public shootings before they banned and confiscated guns.....now, after they banned and confiscated guns, they still have public shootings and their gun crime rate is going up...
> 
> Meanwhile, we have more Americans who now own and carry guns and our gun crime rate, our gun murder rate and our violent crime rate has gone down, not up.....showing that your beliefs about guns are completely wrong...
> 
> We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
> 
> 
> --* gun murder down 49%*
> 
> *--gun crime down 75%*
> 
> *--violent crime down 72%*
> 
> Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware
> 
> Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
> 
> *And Australia?*
> 
> Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work | National Review
> 
> University of Melbourne researchers Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi concluded their 2008 report on the matter with the statement, “There is little evidence to suggest that [the Australian mandatory gun-buyback program] had any significant effects on firearm homicides.”
> 
> “Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical and sensible policy that helps to placate the public’s fears,” the reported continued, “the evidence so far suggests that in the Australian context, the high expenditure incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not translated into any tangible reductions in terms of firearm deaths.”
> 
> A 2007 report, “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” by Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran similarly concluded that the buyback program did not have a significant long-term effect on the Australian homicide rate.
> 
> The Australian gun-homicide rate had already been quite low and had been steadily falling in the 15 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre. And while the mandatory buyback program did appear to reduce the rate of _accidental_ firearm deaths, Baker and McPhedran found that “the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia.”
> 
> =======
> 
> 2007 report..
> 
> http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Baker and McPhedran 2007.pdf
> 
> Conclusions Examination of the long-term trends indicated that the only category of sudden death that may have been influenced by the introduction of the NFA was firearm suicide
> ------
> 
> However, this effect must be considered in light of the findings for suicide (non-firearm). Homicide patterns (firearm and non-firearm) were not influenced by the NFA, the conclusion being that the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia. The introduction of the NFA appeared to have a negative effect on accidental firearm death. However, over the time period investigated, there was a relatively small number of accidental deaths per annum, with substantial variability. Any conclusions regarding the effect of the NFA on accidental firearm death should be approached with caution
> =========
> 
> 2008 report...
> 
> 
> http://c8.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Lee and Suardi 2008.pdf
> 
> In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates.
> -------
> 
> 6. Conclusion
> 
> This paper takes a closer look at the effects of the National Firearms Agreement on gun deaths. Using a battery of structural break tests, there is little evidence to suggest that it had any significant effects on firearm homicides and suicides. In addition, there also does not appear to be any substitution effects – that reduced access to firearms may have led those bent on committing homicide or suicide to use alternative methods.
> 
> 
> Australia’s Gun 'Buyback' Created a Violent Firearms Black Market. Why Should the U.S. Do the Same?
> 
> Just days ago, Australia's Peter Dutton, Minister for Immigration and Border Protection, and Michael Keenan, Minister for Justice, held a joint press conference to announce "We don't tolerate gun smuggling in Australia and we know Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs are engaged in it. We have been keen to send the strongest possible message from Canberra that we're not going to tolerate people smuggling in guns or smuggling in gun parts. You'd appreciate that even one smuggled gun can do an enormous amount of damage."
> 
> When politicians announce that they don't tolerate something, it's a fair bet that the something is completely out of hand.
> 
> "Police admit they cannot eradicate a black market that is peddling illegal guns to criminals," the _Adelaide Advertiser_ concededa few years ago. "Motorcycle gang members and convicted criminals barred from buying guns in South Australia have no difficulty obtaining illegal firearms - including fully automatic weapons."
> 
> *More recently, the country's The New Daily gained access to "previously unpublished data for firearms offences" and reporteda surge in crime "including a massive 83 per cent increase in firearms offences in NSW between 2005/06 and 2014/15, and an even bigger jump in Victoria over the same period."*
> 
> "Australians may be more at risk from gun crime than ever before with the country's underground market for firearms ballooning in the past decade," the report added. "[T]he national ban on semi-automatic weapons following the Port Arthur massacre had spawned criminal demand for handguns."
> 
> Much as the Mafia and other organized criminal outfits rose to power, wealth, and prominence by supplying illegal liquor during Prohibition in the United States, outlaw motorcycle gangs in Australia appear to be building international connections and making money by supplying guns to willing buyers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, reposting the same nonsense every time this comes up doesn't make it any less nonsensical.  You need some new material.  You should start by looking for things that are true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The truth is the truth, Australian gun control did not stop public shootings and it didn't lower the gun crime rate....now, the gun crime rate there is going up, as they bring in more and more 3rd world drug gangs.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's funny when someone who consistently posts fake information says things like "the truth is the thruth".
Click to expand...



Yes....you sitting there trying to hide from the truth saying that something isn't the truth is pretty funny.


----------



## Daryl Hunt

2aguy said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, 15 shootings?  In 22 years?  We have more than that every day!
> 
> Could you be a little more dishonest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What you willfully fail to understand is that Australia didn't have a lot of gun crime before they banned and confiscated guns, and they didn't have many public shootings before they banned and confiscated guns.....now, after they banned and confiscated guns, they still have public shootings and their gun crime rate is going up...
> 
> Meanwhile, we have more Americans who now own and carry guns and our gun crime rate, our gun murder rate and our violent crime rate has gone down, not up.....showing that your beliefs about guns are completely wrong...
> 
> We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
> 
> 
> --* gun murder down 49%*
> 
> *--gun crime down 75%*
> 
> *--violent crime down 72%*
> 
> Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware
> 
> Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
> 
> *And Australia?*
> 
> Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work | National Review
> 
> University of Melbourne researchers Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi concluded their 2008 report on the matter with the statement, “There is little evidence to suggest that [the Australian mandatory gun-buyback program] had any significant effects on firearm homicides.”
> 
> “Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical and sensible policy that helps to placate the public’s fears,” the reported continued, “the evidence so far suggests that in the Australian context, the high expenditure incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not translated into any tangible reductions in terms of firearm deaths.”
> 
> A 2007 report, “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” by Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran similarly concluded that the buyback program did not have a significant long-term effect on the Australian homicide rate.
> 
> The Australian gun-homicide rate had already been quite low and had been steadily falling in the 15 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre. And while the mandatory buyback program did appear to reduce the rate of _accidental_ firearm deaths, Baker and McPhedran found that “the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia.”
> 
> =======
> 
> 2007 report..
> 
> http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Baker and McPhedran 2007.pdf
> 
> Conclusions Examination of the long-term trends indicated that the only category of sudden death that may have been influenced by the introduction of the NFA was firearm suicide
> ------
> 
> However, this effect must be considered in light of the findings for suicide (non-firearm). Homicide patterns (firearm and non-firearm) were not influenced by the NFA, the conclusion being that the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia. The introduction of the NFA appeared to have a negative effect on accidental firearm death. However, over the time period investigated, there was a relatively small number of accidental deaths per annum, with substantial variability. Any conclusions regarding the effect of the NFA on accidental firearm death should be approached with caution
> =========
> 
> 2008 report...
> 
> 
> http://c8.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Lee and Suardi 2008.pdf
> 
> In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates.
> -------
> 
> 6. Conclusion
> 
> This paper takes a closer look at the effects of the National Firearms Agreement on gun deaths. Using a battery of structural break tests, there is little evidence to suggest that it had any significant effects on firearm homicides and suicides. In addition, there also does not appear to be any substitution effects – that reduced access to firearms may have led those bent on committing homicide or suicide to use alternative methods.
> 
> 
> Australia’s Gun 'Buyback' Created a Violent Firearms Black Market. Why Should the U.S. Do the Same?
> 
> Just days ago, Australia's Peter Dutton, Minister for Immigration and Border Protection, and Michael Keenan, Minister for Justice, held a joint press conference to announce "We don't tolerate gun smuggling in Australia and we know Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs are engaged in it. We have been keen to send the strongest possible message from Canberra that we're not going to tolerate people smuggling in guns or smuggling in gun parts. You'd appreciate that even one smuggled gun can do an enormous amount of damage."
> 
> When politicians announce that they don't tolerate something, it's a fair bet that the something is completely out of hand.
> 
> "Police admit they cannot eradicate a black market that is peddling illegal guns to criminals," the _Adelaide Advertiser_ concededa few years ago. "Motorcycle gang members and convicted criminals barred from buying guns in South Australia have no difficulty obtaining illegal firearms - including fully automatic weapons."
> 
> *More recently, the country's The New Daily gained access to "previously unpublished data for firearms offences" and reporteda surge in crime "including a massive 83 per cent increase in firearms offences in NSW between 2005/06 and 2014/15, and an even bigger jump in Victoria over the same period."*
> 
> "Australians may be more at risk from gun crime than ever before with the country's underground market for firearms ballooning in the past decade," the report added. "[T]he national ban on semi-automatic weapons following the Port Arthur massacre had spawned criminal demand for handguns."
> 
> Much as the Mafia and other organized criminal outfits rose to power, wealth, and prominence by supplying illegal liquor during Prohibition in the United States, outlaw motorcycle gangs in Australia appear to be building international connections and making money by supplying guns to willing buyers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, reposting the same nonsense every time this comes up doesn't make it any less nonsensical.  You need some new material.  You should start by looking for things that are true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The truth is the truth, Australian gun control did not stop public shootings and it didn't lower the gun crime rate....now, the gun crime rate there is going up, as they bring in more and more 3rd world drug gangs.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's funny when someone who consistently posts fake information says things like "the truth is the thruth".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes....you sitting there trying to hide from the truth saying that something isn't the truth is pretty funny.
Click to expand...


Repeating lies over and over doesnt' make them true.  I guess you can just talk to yourself now.   I have better things to do.  My running board needs a bolt replaced, among other things.


----------



## MaryL

Rosy said:


> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.


By that logic, all laws fail to stop crime, we should then not have laws?


----------



## 2aguy

And according to this count, mass shootings have increased since they confiscated guns in Australia...

US Gun Controllers May Want to Rethink Using Australia As An Example - The Truth About Guns

There have been six incidents of mass shootings (depending on how one defines them) after Port Arthur and prior to the incident this week in Margaret River, one being a familicide. So, the fact is that their NFA clearly hasn’t stopped ALL mass shootings from occurring.

What about before the NFA?

The first rampage or spree killing mentioned on Wikipedia’s list was the Ching family murders in Alligator Creek, Queensland, in 1911. All other entries prior to that incident were massacres of indigenous people or of settlers by said indigenous people who – it must be said – definitely got the short end of the stick when the colonists started arriving.

Counting that incident in 1911, up to and including the Port Arthur massacre in 1996, there were a total of 16 mass/rampage/spree shootings over 85 years. That doesn’t include vehicular attacks or spats between biker gangs. That’s an average of one mass shooting incident every 5.26 years.

In the 22 years since the Port Arthur massacre, the average has been one every 3.14 years including the most recent incident. So the frequency has been INCREASING since the gun control NFA was passed.


----------



## Rosy

MaryL said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.
> 
> 
> 
> By that logic, all laws fail to stop crime, we should then not have laws?
Click to expand...


There is no known way to ban guns from criminals.

Get real


----------



## Rustic

Daryl Hunt said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Straw man alert!  Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> 
> Except it isn't working that way in Britain or Australia, doofus.  In both countries gun crime is going up, not down, meanwhile, in the United States....gun crime, gun murder and violent crime is going down, while more Americans are owning and actually carrying guns.....
> 
> Your entire point is wrong......gun control in Britain?  More gun crime.  Gun control in Australia?  More gun crime.
> 
> More people carrying guns in the U.S.?  Gun murder down, gun crime down, violent crime down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In your mind only.  MOST people in the US do NOT carry guns.  You may dream about it but most don't carry guns at all.  In fact, most homes don't even have guns at all.  The bulk of the guns are owned by only a small percentage of the people who own multiple guns.  You use the total and spread it out over the entire population when it's only a small percentage that actually owns the guns.
> 
> Australia's gun murder just went up.  7 murders in 22 years and that's it.  Rather than ding them for those 7 deaths, how about taking your hat off to them for the 22 years where there were Zero Gun Murders.  And then wish them another 22 years of no gun murders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> they haven't had 0 gun murders and they have had about 15 public shootings since they banned and confiscated guns....and their gun crime rate is going up, not down....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, the "liberals believe it will stop all shootings" straw man.  I believe we've already discussed this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, 15 public shootings in 22 years.  Why, that's a friggin crime wave.  Chicago can have that many in a week.  If any large US City only got 15 in one year it would be cause for a parade except some idiot would be waiting along the way with an AR-15 to go for a new record.
Click to expand...

AR15s are just sporting rifles...


----------



## Rustic

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> 
> 
> Straw man alert!  Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> 
> Except it isn't working that way in Britain or Australia, doofus.  In both countries gun crime is going up, not down, meanwhile, in the United States....gun crime, gun murder and violent crime is going down, while more Americans are owning and actually carrying guns.....
> 
> Your entire point is wrong......gun control in Britain?  More gun crime.  Gun control in Australia?  More gun crime.
> 
> More people carrying guns in the U.S.?  Gun murder down, gun crime down, violent crime down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, wake up.  7 people is the worst shooting Australia has had in 22 years, it isn't even the worst one we've had this month!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They banned and confiscated guns....they are constantly used to say that their gun control laws work, and that is a lie.  They have had about 15 public shootings since the gun ban.....and their gun crime rate is going up, while ours is going down.
> 
> The truth is the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 15 shootings?  We get that on a weekend
> 
> The gun ban kept them safe
Click to expand...

Criminals don’t obey laws... jack weed


----------



## MaryL

Rosy said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.
> 
> 
> 
> By that logic, all laws fail to stop crime, we should then not have laws?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no known way to ban guns from criminals.
> 
> Get real
Click to expand...

No way to stop jaywalkers, speeders or murders ,  either. Let's all just give up and shrug it off. What can you do...


----------



## Rosy

Rustic said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> 
> Except it isn't working that way in Britain or Australia, doofus.  In both countries gun crime is going up, not down, meanwhile, in the United States....gun crime, gun murder and violent crime is going down, while more Americans are owning and actually carrying guns.....
> 
> Your entire point is wrong......gun control in Britain?  More gun crime.  Gun control in Australia?  More gun crime.
> 
> More people carrying guns in the U.S.?  Gun murder down, gun crime down, violent crime down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In your mind only.  MOST people in the US do NOT carry guns.  You may dream about it but most don't carry guns at all.  In fact, most homes don't even have guns at all.  The bulk of the guns are owned by only a small percentage of the people who own multiple guns.  You use the total and spread it out over the entire population when it's only a small percentage that actually owns the guns.
> 
> Australia's gun murder just went up.  7 murders in 22 years and that's it.  Rather than ding them for those 7 deaths, how about taking your hat off to them for the 22 years where there were Zero Gun Murders.  And then wish them another 22 years of no gun murders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> they haven't had 0 gun murders and they have had about 15 public shootings since they banned and confiscated guns....and their gun crime rate is going up, not down....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, the "liberals believe it will stop all shootings" straw man.  I believe we've already discussed this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, 15 public shootings in 22 years.  Why, that's a friggin crime wave.  Chicago can have that many in a week.  If any large US City only got 15 in one year it would be cause for a parade except some idiot would be waiting along the way with an AR-15 to go for a new record.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AR15s are just sporting rifles...
Click to expand...


AR-15's are target shooting rifles for idiots, I am sure Oliver North owns a bunch


----------



## Rosy

MaryL said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.
> 
> 
> 
> By that logic, all laws fail to stop crime, we should then not have laws?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no known way to ban guns from criminals.
> 
> Get real
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No way to stop jaywalkers, speeders or murders ,  either. Let's all just give up and shrug it off. What can you do...
Click to expand...


You are not making a point

PS. There is also no way to stop bimbos from making internet post


----------



## 2aguy

Rosy said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> In your mind only.  MOST people in the US do NOT carry guns.  You may dream about it but most don't carry guns at all.  In fact, most homes don't even have guns at all.  The bulk of the guns are owned by only a small percentage of the people who own multiple guns.  You use the total and spread it out over the entire population when it's only a small percentage that actually owns the guns.
> 
> Australia's gun murder just went up.  7 murders in 22 years and that's it.  Rather than ding them for those 7 deaths, how about taking your hat off to them for the 22 years where there were Zero Gun Murders.  And then wish them another 22 years of no gun murders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they haven't had 0 gun murders and they have had about 15 public shootings since they banned and confiscated guns....and their gun crime rate is going up, not down....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, the "liberals believe it will stop all shootings" straw man.  I believe we've already discussed this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, 15 public shootings in 22 years.  Why, that's a friggin crime wave.  Chicago can have that many in a week.  If any large US City only got 15 in one year it would be cause for a parade except some idiot would be waiting along the way with an AR-15 to go for a new record.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AR15s are just sporting rifles...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> AR-15's are target shooting rifles for idiots, I am sure Oliver North owns a bunch
Click to expand...



You mean like this woman..



Or these 200 women...


----------



## MaryL

Rosy said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.
> 
> 
> 
> By that logic, all laws fail to stop crime, we should then not have laws?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no known way to ban guns from criminals.
> 
> Get real
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No way to stop jaywalkers, speeders or murders ,  either. Let's all just give up and shrug it off. What can you do...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are not making a point
> 
> PS. There is also no way to stop bimbos from making internet post
Click to expand...

 REALLY? This is the best you can do? Mockery isn't a very good way of persuading people.


----------



## Rosy

2aguy said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> they haven't had 0 gun murders and they have had about 15 public shootings since they banned and confiscated guns....and their gun crime rate is going up, not down....
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, the "liberals believe it will stop all shootings" straw man.  I believe we've already discussed this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, 15 public shootings in 22 years.  Why, that's a friggin crime wave.  Chicago can have that many in a week.  If any large US City only got 15 in one year it would be cause for a parade except some idiot would be waiting along the way with an AR-15 to go for a new record.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AR15s are just sporting rifles...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> AR-15's are target shooting rifles for idiots, I am sure Oliver North owns a bunch
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like this woman..
> 
> 
> 
> Or these 200 women...
Click to expand...


Now lets see that happen if a man with the same skills shoots back at her.  The street AR-15 is useless as shit for home defense, pick one up and all enemies will assume you have a full auto gun that you do not have and treat you as such.  Any asswipe can shoot a paper target, as they never make you duck for cover.  Little kids will however be impressed


----------



## Rosy

MaryL said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.
> 
> 
> 
> By that logic, all laws fail to stop crime, we should then not have laws?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no known way to ban guns from criminals.
> 
> Get real
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No way to stop jaywalkers, speeders or murders ,  either. Let's all just give up and shrug it off. What can you do...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are not making a point
> 
> PS. There is also no way to stop bimbos from making internet post
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> REALLY? This is the best you can do? Mockery isn't a very good way of persuading people.
Click to expand...


Idiots can't be persuaded into not being idiots.  That would take a genetic change.

Next


----------



## 2aguy

Rosy said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, the "liberals believe it will stop all shootings" straw man.  I believe we've already discussed this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, 15 public shootings in 22 years.  Why, that's a friggin crime wave.  Chicago can have that many in a week.  If any large US City only got 15 in one year it would be cause for a parade except some idiot would be waiting along the way with an AR-15 to go for a new record.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AR15s are just sporting rifles...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> AR-15's are target shooting rifles for idiots, I am sure Oliver North owns a bunch
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like this woman..
> 
> 
> 
> Or these 200 women...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now lets see that happen if a man with the same skills shoots back at her.  The street AR-15 is useless as shit for home defense, pick one up and all enemies will assume you have a full auto gun that you do not have and treat you as such.  Any asswipe can shoot a paper target, as they never make you duck for cover.  Little kids will however be impressed
Click to expand...



Wow...you really don't know anything about guns, do you?  

The AR for Home Defense: One Expert's Opinion

_*AR: So, what is it about the AR that makes it so suitable, in your opinion, for a home-defense scenario?*_

_*KL:*_ The AR is very easy to shoot. Head out to the range and test my theory. Ask anyone who wants to join in on the fun to try shooting a scored event, under pressure, with a pistol at home-defense ranges. After you see their performance, try the same with an AR, I will bet money you see much better control of the system. Men and women alike just shoot better with a carbine than with a pistol. As long as the carbine is light enough for the shooter to handle properly, the learning curve will be straight-up.

The AR is unbelievably versatile, from contact shooting distances out to 300 yds., the carbine will outperform the pistol. Most of us don’t think of 300-yd. shooting as a likely home-defense scenario, and, in many areas, it wouldn’t be. But if given an option of defensive tools, and considering our country’s independent heritage and past experiences, why wouldn’t you want extended-range capabilities?

_*AR: What about other choices, such as the shotgun, for home defense?*_

*KL:* For self-defense, a reliable semi-automatic is king. That is why I would not pick the shotgun. Rarely can you find a semi-automatic shotgun that is 100-percent reliable with assorted ammunition. Add the fact that you may need to shoot without your shoulder to the buttstock and reliability with the scattergun drops even more. Recoil-operated semi-automatic shotguns are light and handy but unreliable when not held tightly, and gas-operated guns are heavier than I prefer for a home-defense scenario. Once again, if you want to carry a shotgun for home defense, knock yourself out. I choose not to do so. I am sure those who carry pump shotguns will chime in with the absolute final word on the proper pick for the home-defense shotgun—all I ask is that you head to the range and try to operate your pump gun with only one hand. Simulating a disabled arm will make you a believer in the semi-automatic carbine. The shotgun is also extremely deficient in magazine capacity. Once again, the AR shines in this category. Even in 10-round-maximum states, in which long-gun rights have been destroyed, you have more firepower than with most shotguns.

_*AR: Considering its portability and maneuverability, wouldn’t the pistol be the best choice for home defense?*_

_*KL:* _If you are among those who say, “If I can’t fix the problem with my eight rounds of .45 ACP, it can’t be fixed,” I say please grab a big old mug of black coffee and wake up from your dream. No one knows who, what, when, where or why the fight will start—blowhard statements only degrade an intelligent conversation. 

Once again, focusing on reality, 5.56x45 mm NATO ammunition just plain works. There are literally thousands upon thousands of terrorists who have met their ends because of it. Apparently, they did not have a chance to read the latest gun blog decrying the lack of stopping power from the 5.56.


----------



## 2aguy

Rosy said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, the "liberals believe it will stop all shootings" straw man.  I believe we've already discussed this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, 15 public shootings in 22 years.  Why, that's a friggin crime wave.  Chicago can have that many in a week.  If any large US City only got 15 in one year it would be cause for a parade except some idiot would be waiting along the way with an AR-15 to go for a new record.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AR15s are just sporting rifles...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> AR-15's are target shooting rifles for idiots, I am sure Oliver North owns a bunch
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like this woman..
> 
> 
> 
> Or these 200 women...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now lets see that happen if a man with the same skills shoots back at her.  The street AR-15 is useless as shit for home defense, pick one up and all enemies will assume you have a full auto gun that you do not have and treat you as such.  Any asswipe can shoot a paper target, as they never make you duck for cover.  Little kids will however be impressed
Click to expand...



And again, you don't know anything about actual guns.....

6 Reasons Why The AR-15 Is Actually Ideal For Self-Defense

*1. It’s Lightweight*

The AR-15 is lightweight. Typically, a stripped down rifle weighs around six pounds or so unloaded. Ammo adds weight, of course, but it’s still not overly heavy.

With that weight comes some serious advantages. For one, it allows you to hold it up as you check out the entirety of your home to find the source of the sound of breaking glass that woke you up. Keeping a weapon at low ready requires a lot more muscle than many people think, and a lightweight rifle helps keep the muscular strain minimal.

That becomes even more important if, God forbid, you have to fire. Muscle fatigue can make your hands unsteady, which could cause you to miss your target.

Further, because of its weight, it’s light enough for almost any member of the family. In my household, my son and wife can both easily handle my AR-15. The only one who can’t is my almost 7-year-old daughter. And even then the problem isn’t the weight, but the size.

That lightweight design makes it a great choice for home defense because it doesn’t matter who needs to grab it, it’s sized about right.

*2. It’s Compact*

When you have to work around corners inside the average American home, the last thing you want is a long length on your weapon. A longer gun becomes unwieldy, and the AR-15 is a compact design, particularly when taken with the 16″ barrel. This allows you to move through your home without knocking stuff down and creating more problems for yourself.

Further, it’s length is often adjustable. Most AR-15s come with a collapsible stock. While these are restricted in several states, they’re legal most places and they allow you to set the length even shorter if needed. This means it’s not just compact, but adjustable as well.

3. It Has Low Recoil


----------



## 2aguy

Rosy said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, the "liberals believe it will stop all shootings" straw man.  I believe we've already discussed this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, 15 public shootings in 22 years.  Why, that's a friggin crime wave.  Chicago can have that many in a week.  If any large US City only got 15 in one year it would be cause for a parade except some idiot would be waiting along the way with an AR-15 to go for a new record.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AR15s are just sporting rifles...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> AR-15's are target shooting rifles for idiots, I am sure Oliver North owns a bunch
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like this woman..
> 
> 
> 
> Or these 200 women...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now lets see that happen if a man with the same skills shoots back at her.  The street AR-15 is useless as shit for home defense, pick one up and all enemies will assume you have a full auto gun that you do not have and treat you as such.  Any asswipe can shoot a paper target, as they never make you duck for cover.  Little kids will however be impressed
Click to expand...



And you just hit on why the gun is the best weapon for self defense......if a woman has to shoot it out with a man, they are on equal footing, the man's larger size, strength and aggression mean nothing to a woman with a gun.....they are equal....


----------



## MaryL

Rosy said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> By that logic, all laws fail to stop crime, we should then not have laws?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no known way to ban guns from criminals.
> 
> Get real
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No way to stop jaywalkers, speeders or murders ,  either. Let's all just give up and shrug it off. What can you do...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are not making a point
> 
> PS. There is also no way to stop bimbos from making internet post
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> REALLY? This is the best you can do? Mockery isn't a very good way of persuading people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Idiots can't be persuaded into not being idiots.  That would take a genetic change.
> 
> Next
Click to expand...

I am not  exactly feeling comforted  when I read someone that has a Cyrillic alphabetic in their response agrees with me.


----------



## Rosy

2aguy said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, 15 public shootings in 22 years.  Why, that's a friggin crime wave.  Chicago can have that many in a week.  If any large US City only got 15 in one year it would be cause for a parade except some idiot would be waiting along the way with an AR-15 to go for a new record.
> 
> 
> 
> AR15s are just sporting rifles...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> AR-15's are target shooting rifles for idiots, I am sure Oliver North owns a bunch
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like this woman..
> 
> 
> 
> Or these 200 women...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now lets see that happen if a man with the same skills shoots back at her.  The street AR-15 is useless as shit for home defense, pick one up and all enemies will assume you have a full auto gun that you do not have and treat you as such.  Any asswipe can shoot a paper target, as they never make you duck for cover.  Little kids will however be impressed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...you really don't know anything about guns, do you?
> 
> The AR for Home Defense: One Expert's Opinion
> 
> _*AR: So, what is it about the AR that makes it so suitable, in your opinion, for a home-defense scenario?*_
> 
> _*KL:*_ The AR is very easy to shoot. Head out to the range and test my theory. Ask anyone who wants to join in on the fun to try shooting a scored event, under pressure, with a pistol at home-defense ranges. After you see their performance, try the same with an AR, I will bet money you see much better control of the system. Men and women alike just shoot better with a carbine than with a pistol. As long as the carbine is light enough for the shooter to handle properly, the learning curve will be straight-up.
> 
> The AR is unbelievably versatile, from contact shooting distances out to 300 yds., the carbine will outperform the pistol. Most of us don’t think of 300-yd. shooting as a likely home-defense scenario, and, in many areas, it wouldn’t be. But if given an option of defensive tools, and considering our country’s independent heritage and past experiences, why wouldn’t you want extended-range capabilities?
> 
> _*AR: What about other choices, such as the shotgun, for home defense?*_
> 
> *KL:* For self-defense, a reliable semi-automatic is king. That is why I would not pick the shotgun. Rarely can you find a semi-automatic shotgun that is 100-percent reliable with assorted ammunition. Add the fact that you may need to shoot without your shoulder to the buttstock and reliability with the scattergun drops even more. Recoil-operated semi-automatic shotguns are light and handy but unreliable when not held tightly, and gas-operated guns are heavier than I prefer for a home-defense scenario. Once again, if you want to carry a shotgun for home defense, knock yourself out. I choose not to do so. I am sure those who carry pump shotguns will chime in with the absolute final word on the proper pick for the home-defense shotgun—all I ask is that you head to the range and try to operate your pump gun with only one hand. Simulating a disabled arm will make you a believer in the semi-automatic carbine. The shotgun is also extremely deficient in magazine capacity. Once again, the AR shines in this category. Even in 10-round-maximum states, in which long-gun rights have been destroyed, you have more firepower than with most shotguns.
> 
> _*AR: Considering its portability and maneuverability, wouldn’t the pistol be the best choice for home defense?*_
> 
> _*KL:* _If you are among those who say, “If I can’t fix the problem with my eight rounds of .45 ACP, it can’t be fixed,” I say please grab a big old mug of black coffee and wake up from your dream. No one knows who, what, when, where or why the fight will start—blowhard statements only degrade an intelligent conversation.
> 
> Once again, focusing on reality, 5.56x45 mm NATO ammunition just plain works. There are literally thousands upon thousands of terrorists who have met their ends because of it. Apparently, they did not have a chance to read the latest gun blog decrying the lack of stopping power from the 5.56.
Click to expand...


The AR-15 is
1. Not a full auto gun as designed, which is like putting a 4 cylinder Toyota engine in a Lamborghini
2. Does not make the list of best sniper rifles anywhere
3. Is useless except to little kids who want to shoot their teacher
4. Grow up turd


----------



## Rosy

2aguy said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, 15 public shootings in 22 years.  Why, that's a friggin crime wave.  Chicago can have that many in a week.  If any large US City only got 15 in one year it would be cause for a parade except some idiot would be waiting along the way with an AR-15 to go for a new record.
> 
> 
> 
> AR15s are just sporting rifles...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> AR-15's are target shooting rifles for idiots, I am sure Oliver North owns a bunch
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like this woman..
> 
> 
> 
> Or these 200 women...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now lets see that happen if a man with the same skills shoots back at her.  The street AR-15 is useless as shit for home defense, pick one up and all enemies will assume you have a full auto gun that you do not have and treat you as such.  Any asswipe can shoot a paper target, as they never make you duck for cover.  Little kids will however be impressed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you just hit on why the gun is the best weapon for self defense......if a woman has to shoot it out with a man, they are on equal footing, the man's larger size, strength and aggression mean nothing to a woman with a gun.....they are equal....
Click to expand...


So in your mind rifles are good in close encounters and can be concealed in a pocket

You are a functional retard.

How many guns do you own?


----------



## Dr Grump

Rosy said:


> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.




it was a domestic


----------



## Rosy

Dr Grump said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it was a domestic
Click to expand...


HUH


----------



## Dr Grump

Rosy said:


> HUH



Huh what?


----------



## Rosy

Dr Grump said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> HUH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huh what?
Click to expand...

I need a drink


----------



## Crepitus

Rustic said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> 
> Except it isn't working that way in Britain or Australia, doofus.  In both countries gun crime is going up, not down, meanwhile, in the United States....gun crime, gun murder and violent crime is going down, while more Americans are owning and actually carrying guns.....
> 
> Your entire point is wrong......gun control in Britain?  More gun crime.  Gun control in Australia?  More gun crime.
> 
> More people carrying guns in the U.S.?  Gun murder down, gun crime down, violent crime down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In your mind only.  MOST people in the US do NOT carry guns.  You may dream about it but most don't carry guns at all.  In fact, most homes don't even have guns at all.  The bulk of the guns are owned by only a small percentage of the people who own multiple guns.  You use the total and spread it out over the entire population when it's only a small percentage that actually owns the guns.
> 
> Australia's gun murder just went up.  7 murders in 22 years and that's it.  Rather than ding them for those 7 deaths, how about taking your hat off to them for the 22 years where there were Zero Gun Murders.  And then wish them another 22 years of no gun murders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> they haven't had 0 gun murders and they have had about 15 public shootings since they banned and confiscated guns....and their gun crime rate is going up, not down....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, the "liberals believe it will stop all shootings" straw man.  I believe we've already discussed this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, 15 public shootings in 22 years.  Why, that's a friggin crime wave.  Chicago can have that many in a week.  If any large US City only got 15 in one year it would be cause for a parade except some idiot would be waiting along the way with an AR-15 to go for a new record.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AR15s are just sporting rifles...
Click to expand...

Ar15s are toys that let nobody wannabes act tough.


----------



## 2aguy

Rosy said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> HUH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huh what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I need a drink
Click to expand...


You post as if you have already had a lot of them....


----------



## 2aguy

Crepitus said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> In your mind only.  MOST people in the US do NOT carry guns.  You may dream about it but most don't carry guns at all.  In fact, most homes don't even have guns at all.  The bulk of the guns are owned by only a small percentage of the people who own multiple guns.  You use the total and spread it out over the entire population when it's only a small percentage that actually owns the guns.
> 
> Australia's gun murder just went up.  7 murders in 22 years and that's it.  Rather than ding them for those 7 deaths, how about taking your hat off to them for the 22 years where there were Zero Gun Murders.  And then wish them another 22 years of no gun murders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they haven't had 0 gun murders and they have had about 15 public shootings since they banned and confiscated guns....and their gun crime rate is going up, not down....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, the "liberals believe it will stop all shootings" straw man.  I believe we've already discussed this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, 15 public shootings in 22 years.  Why, that's a friggin crime wave.  Chicago can have that many in a week.  If any large US City only got 15 in one year it would be cause for a parade except some idiot would be waiting along the way with an AR-15 to go for a new record.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AR15s are just sporting rifles...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ar15s are toys that let nobody wannabes act tough.
Click to expand...



AR-15s are not toys....that you would think they are shows how stupid a human being you are...


----------



## Rosy

2aguy said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> HUH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huh what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I need a drink
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You post as if you have already had a lot of them....
Click to expand...

Clever, your mommy helpy u with that


----------



## Rosy

2aguy said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> they haven't had 0 gun murders and they have had about 15 public shootings since they banned and confiscated guns....and their gun crime rate is going up, not down....
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, the "liberals believe it will stop all shootings" straw man.  I believe we've already discussed this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, 15 public shootings in 22 years.  Why, that's a friggin crime wave.  Chicago can have that many in a week.  If any large US City only got 15 in one year it would be cause for a parade except some idiot would be waiting along the way with an AR-15 to go for a new record.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AR15s are just sporting rifles...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ar15s are toys that let nobody wannabes act tough.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> AR-15s are not toys....that you would think they are shows how stupid a human being you are...
Click to expand...

What police or military unit uses the AR-15 street version?

Answer NONE as the AR-15 is a TOY when compared to  a real weapon


----------



## 2aguy

Rosy said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> AR15s are just sporting rifles...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AR-15's are target shooting rifles for idiots, I am sure Oliver North owns a bunch
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like this woman..
> 
> 
> 
> Or these 200 women...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now lets see that happen if a man with the same skills shoots back at her.  The street AR-15 is useless as shit for home defense, pick one up and all enemies will assume you have a full auto gun that you do not have and treat you as such.  Any asswipe can shoot a paper target, as they never make you duck for cover.  Little kids will however be impressed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you just hit on why the gun is the best weapon for self defense......if a woman has to shoot it out with a man, they are on equal footing, the man's larger size, strength and aggression mean nothing to a woman with a gun.....they are equal....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So in your mind rifles are good in close encounters and can be concealed in a pocket
> 
> You are a functional retard.
> 
> How many guns do you own?
Click to expand...



How did you get that out of that post.....put down the alcohol and pay attention to the thread.....the AR-15 is a rifle, and can't be concealed in a pocket...I hope that helps...the rest of the post describes the truth in response to your stupid post....


----------



## 2aguy

Rosy said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, the "liberals believe it will stop all shootings" straw man.  I believe we've already discussed this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, 15 public shootings in 22 years.  Why, that's a friggin crime wave.  Chicago can have that many in a week.  If any large US City only got 15 in one year it would be cause for a parade except some idiot would be waiting along the way with an AR-15 to go for a new record.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AR15s are just sporting rifles...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ar15s are toys that let nobody wannabes act tough.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> AR-15s are not toys....that you would think they are shows how stupid a human being you are...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What police or military unit uses the AR-15 street version?
> 
> Answer NONE as the AR-15 is a TOY when compared to  a real weapon
Click to expand...



Moron.....the police use the AR-15 rifle.....it is a civilian rifle that the police use...

From the Chicago Police......

Police Carbine Operator Program

VI. APPROVED CARBINES AND AMMUNITION - SPECIFICATIONS 

A. Department-issued carbines will conform to the following specifications: 
1. AR-15/M-4 type,* semiautomatic carbine* chambered in 5.56 mm;


----------



## 2aguy

Rosy said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> AR15s are just sporting rifles...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AR-15's are target shooting rifles for idiots, I am sure Oliver North owns a bunch
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like this woman..
> 
> 
> 
> Or these 200 women...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now lets see that happen if a man with the same skills shoots back at her.  The street AR-15 is useless as shit for home defense, pick one up and all enemies will assume you have a full auto gun that you do not have and treat you as such.  Any asswipe can shoot a paper target, as they never make you duck for cover.  Little kids will however be impressed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you just hit on why the gun is the best weapon for self defense......if a woman has to shoot it out with a man, they are on equal footing, the man's larger size, strength and aggression mean nothing to a woman with a gun.....they are equal....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So in your mind rifles are good in close encounters and can be concealed in a pocket
> 
> You are a functional retard.
> 
> How many guns do you own?
Click to expand...



Your posts are so erratic it is hard to tell so....are you a pro-gun Rights individual, or a gun grabber?


----------



## Rosy

2aguy said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> AR-15's are target shooting rifles for idiots, I am sure Oliver North owns a bunch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like this woman..
> 
> 
> 
> Or these 200 women...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now lets see that happen if a man with the same skills shoots back at her.  The street AR-15 is useless as shit for home defense, pick one up and all enemies will assume you have a full auto gun that you do not have and treat you as such.  Any asswipe can shoot a paper target, as they never make you duck for cover.  Little kids will however be impressed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you just hit on why the gun is the best weapon for self defense......if a woman has to shoot it out with a man, they are on equal footing, the man's larger size, strength and aggression mean nothing to a woman with a gun.....they are equal....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So in your mind rifles are good in close encounters and can be concealed in a pocket
> 
> You are a functional retard.
> 
> How many guns do you own?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How did you get that out of that post.....put down the alcohol and pay attention to the thread.....the AR-15 is a rifle, and can't be concealed in a pocket...I hope that helps...the rest of the post describes the truth in response to your stupid post....
Click to expand...


The AR-15 is junk, owned by retarded NRA idiots


----------



## Rosy

2aguy said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> AR-15's are target shooting rifles for idiots, I am sure Oliver North owns a bunch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like this woman..
> 
> 
> 
> Or these 200 women...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now lets see that happen if a man with the same skills shoots back at her.  The street AR-15 is useless as shit for home defense, pick one up and all enemies will assume you have a full auto gun that you do not have and treat you as such.  Any asswipe can shoot a paper target, as they never make you duck for cover.  Little kids will however be impressed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you just hit on why the gun is the best weapon for self defense......if a woman has to shoot it out with a man, they are on equal footing, the man's larger size, strength and aggression mean nothing to a woman with a gun.....they are equal....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So in your mind rifles are good in close encounters and can be concealed in a pocket
> 
> You are a functional retard.
> 
> How many guns do you own?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Your posts are so erratic it is hard to tell so....are you a pro-gun Rights individual, or a gun grabber?
Click to expand...


I am fully pro gun, but that does not change the fact that the AR-15 in the full auto version is not an accurate weapon, watered down to a semi auto it's stupid


----------



## Rosy

2aguy said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, 15 public shootings in 22 years.  Why, that's a friggin crime wave.  Chicago can have that many in a week.  If any large US City only got 15 in one year it would be cause for a parade except some idiot would be waiting along the way with an AR-15 to go for a new record.
> 
> 
> 
> AR15s are just sporting rifles...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ar15s are toys that let nobody wannabes act tough.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> AR-15s are not toys....that you would think they are shows how stupid a human being you are...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What police or military unit uses the AR-15 street version?
> 
> Answer NONE as the AR-15 is a TOY when compared to  a real weapon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Moron.....the police use the AR-15 rifle.....it is a civilian rifle that the police use...
> 
> From the Chicago Police......
> 
> Police Carbine Operator Program
> 
> VI. APPROVED CARBINES AND AMMUNITION - SPECIFICATIONS
> 
> A. Department-issued carbines will conform to the following specifications:
> 1. AR-15/M-4 type,* semiautomatic carbine* chambered in 5.56 mm;
Click to expand...


Again kid what police force uses semi auto AR-15's...…………..

be specific

The fact is that you are brilliant in your own ignorant mind


----------



## 2aguy

Rosy said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like this woman..
> 
> 
> 
> Or these 200 women...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now lets see that happen if a man with the same skills shoots back at her.  The street AR-15 is useless as shit for home defense, pick one up and all enemies will assume you have a full auto gun that you do not have and treat you as such.  Any asswipe can shoot a paper target, as they never make you duck for cover.  Little kids will however be impressed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you just hit on why the gun is the best weapon for self defense......if a woman has to shoot it out with a man, they are on equal footing, the man's larger size, strength and aggression mean nothing to a woman with a gun.....they are equal....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So in your mind rifles are good in close encounters and can be concealed in a pocket
> 
> You are a functional retard.
> 
> How many guns do you own?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Your posts are so erratic it is hard to tell so....are you a pro-gun Rights individual, or a gun grabber?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am fully pro gun, but that does not change the fact that the AR-15 in the full auto version is not an accurate weapon, watered down to a semi auto it's stupid
Click to expand...



In the infantry we were trained to not fire on fully automatic when we had the M16......it wasn't useful and it wasted ammo.  You should really do some research before you post about guns.


----------



## 2aguy

Rosy said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> AR15s are just sporting rifles...
> 
> 
> 
> Ar15s are toys that let nobody wannabes act tough.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> AR-15s are not toys....that you would think they are shows how stupid a human being you are...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What police or military unit uses the AR-15 street version?
> 
> Answer NONE as the AR-15 is a TOY when compared to  a real weapon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Moron.....the police use the AR-15 rifle.....it is a civilian rifle that the police use...
> 
> From the Chicago Police......
> 
> Police Carbine Operator Program
> 
> VI. APPROVED CARBINES AND AMMUNITION - SPECIFICATIONS
> 
> A. Department-issued carbines will conform to the following specifications:
> 1. AR-15/M-4 type,* semiautomatic carbine* chambered in 5.56 mm;
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again kid what police force uses semi auto AR-15's...…………..
> 
> be specific
> 
> The fact is that you are brilliant in your own ignorant mind
Click to expand...



I gave you the link to the Chicago Police Department policy on their rifles......please.....pay attention....


----------



## Rosy

2aguy said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now lets see that happen if a man with the same skills shoots back at her.  The street AR-15 is useless as shit for home defense, pick one up and all enemies will assume you have a full auto gun that you do not have and treat you as such.  Any asswipe can shoot a paper target, as they never make you duck for cover.  Little kids will however be impressed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you just hit on why the gun is the best weapon for self defense......if a woman has to shoot it out with a man, they are on equal footing, the man's larger size, strength and aggression mean nothing to a woman with a gun.....they are equal....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So in your mind rifles are good in close encounters and can be concealed in a pocket
> 
> You are a functional retard.
> 
> How many guns do you own?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Your posts are so erratic it is hard to tell so....are you a pro-gun Rights individual, or a gun grabber?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am fully pro gun, but that does not change the fact that the AR-15 in the full auto version is not an accurate weapon, watered down to a semi auto it's stupid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In the infantry we were trained to not fire on fully automatic when we had the M16......it wasn't useful and it wasted ammo.  You should really do some research before you post about guns.
Click to expand...


All militaries and police depts. use full auto guns, just like I said you can not name one police or military force that uses the TOY semi AR-15, as it's as said a TOY.   You should really do some research before you post about guns.

Yawn


----------



## Rosy

2aguy said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ar15s are toys that let nobody wannabes act tough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AR-15s are not toys....that you would think they are shows how stupid a human being you are...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What police or military unit uses the AR-15 street version?
> 
> Answer NONE as the AR-15 is a TOY when compared to  a real weapon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Moron.....the police use the AR-15 rifle.....it is a civilian rifle that the police use...
> 
> From the Chicago Police......
> 
> Police Carbine Operator Program
> 
> VI. APPROVED CARBINES AND AMMUNITION - SPECIFICATIONS
> 
> A. Department-issued carbines will conform to the following specifications:
> 1. AR-15/M-4 type,* semiautomatic carbine* chambered in 5.56 mm;
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again kid what police force uses semi auto AR-15's...…………..
> 
> be specific
> 
> The fact is that you are brilliant in your own ignorant mind
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I gave you the link to the Chicago Police Department policy on their rifles......please.....pay attention....
Click to expand...


You never gave me anything kid...……………….Nor would I ever take anything from a little punk like you


----------



## 2aguy

Rosy said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you just hit on why the gun is the best weapon for self defense......if a woman has to shoot it out with a man, they are on equal footing, the man's larger size, strength and aggression mean nothing to a woman with a gun.....they are equal....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So in your mind rifles are good in close encounters and can be concealed in a pocket
> 
> You are a functional retard.
> 
> How many guns do you own?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Your posts are so erratic it is hard to tell so....are you a pro-gun Rights individual, or a gun grabber?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am fully pro gun, but that does not change the fact that the AR-15 in the full auto version is not an accurate weapon, watered down to a semi auto it's stupid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In the infantry we were trained to not fire on fully automatic when we had the M16......it wasn't useful and it wasted ammo.  You should really do some research before you post about guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All militaries and police depts. use full auto guns, just like I said you can not name one police or military force that uses the TOY semi AR-15, as it's as said a TOY.   You should really do some research before you post about guns.
> 
> Yawn
Click to expand...



Wow...you really are stupid......do you even know what Semi automatic means?  The police do not use fully automatic weapons you moron......please.......do some research before you post.


----------



## Rosy

2aguy said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So in your mind rifles are good in close encounters and can be concealed in a pocket
> 
> You are a functional retard.
> 
> How many guns do you own?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your posts are so erratic it is hard to tell so....are you a pro-gun Rights individual, or a gun grabber?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am fully pro gun, but that does not change the fact that the AR-15 in the full auto version is not an accurate weapon, watered down to a semi auto it's stupid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In the infantry we were trained to not fire on fully automatic when we had the M16......it wasn't useful and it wasted ammo.  You should really do some research before you post about guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All militaries and police depts. use full auto guns, just like I said you can not name one police or military force that uses the TOY semi AR-15, as it's as said a TOY.   You should really do some research before you post about guns.
> 
> Yawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...you really are stupid......do you even know what Semi automatic means?  The police do not use fully automatic weapons you moron......please.......do some research before you post.
Click to expand...


When the police reach for an assault rifle, because there is some serious threat, they reach for a full auto weapon.  Only pistols are semi auto.

You are an 17 year old clown who dreams of being in the Army infantry someday.

Grow up kid, the police and military do not use semi auto AR-15's, in fact they would likely choose a far better weapon than that in the first place.  The AR-15 is the holy grail of 17 year old buffoons with NRA t shirts.

You know like you

Have you even kissed a girl yet?

Still waiting for you to list the police depts. that use semi auto AR-15's like you said they all do.


----------



## ThirdTerm

> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.



This incident is mischaracterized as a mass shooting by the media. It was the grandfather of the family who killed all of his family members in a murder-suicide and he didn't use an assault rifle. Miles 'sounded strange' the day before the the incident, according to his neighbor. Probably he could not earn a decent living in rural Australia as a farmer and decided to end his life. Peter and the family moved to Osmingto in 2014 but the drought took its toll on the farm, which was left largely barren. It's not unusual for Aussie farmers to commit suicide and farmer suicide levels are much higher than the average Australian. Peter Miles was battling depression and his mental condition was 'getting worse and worse' in the days before his death. Australian agriculture is said to be "closing down" as rural Australia always suffers from periodic droughts.



> The grandfather suspected of shooting of his wife, their daughter and four children before turning the gun on himself 'sounded strange' the day before the mass shooting.
> 
> Peter Miles is believed to have shot three generations of his family before taking his own life on their remote 'Forever Dreaming' farm in Osmington, Western Australia.
> 
> Neighbour Richard Dossor said he spoke to the 61-year-old, who was found with a bullet wound as he lay slumped in a deck chair on the veranda, about doing farm maintenance work on his property, The West Australian reported.
> 
> '[He was] just not someone who I would have thought was keen to find a new client or customer,' Mr Dossor said.


----------



## 2aguy

Rosy said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your posts are so erratic it is hard to tell so....are you a pro-gun Rights individual, or a gun grabber?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am fully pro gun, but that does not change the fact that the AR-15 in the full auto version is not an accurate weapon, watered down to a semi auto it's stupid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In the infantry we were trained to not fire on fully automatic when we had the M16......it wasn't useful and it wasted ammo.  You should really do some research before you post about guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All militaries and police depts. use full auto guns, just like I said you can not name one police or military force that uses the TOY semi AR-15, as it's as said a TOY.   You should really do some research before you post about guns.
> 
> Yawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...you really are stupid......do you even know what Semi automatic means?  The police do not use fully automatic weapons you moron......please.......do some research before you post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the police reach for an assault rifle, because there is some serious threat, they reach for a full auto weapon.  Only pistols are semi auto.
> 
> You are an 17 year old clown who dreams of being in the Army infantry someday.
> 
> Grow up kid, the police and military do not use semi auto AR-15's, in fact they would likely choose a far better weapon than that in the first place.  The AR-15 is the holy grail of 17 year old buffoons with NRA t shirts.
> 
> You know like you
> 
> Have you even kissed a girl yet?
> 
> Still waiting for you to list the police depts. that use semi auto AR-15's like you said they all do.
Click to expand...



The police do not use fully automatic weapons......you need to do some basic research.

The military uses the select fire weapons....the M4 has a 3 round burst as well as a semi automatic mode....

When I was in, we used the M-16...it had semi automatic and fully automatic modes...... we were told to keep our weapons on semi automatic fire because 1) we had M60 machine guns for suppressive fire and 2) fully automatic fire from our rifles was a waste of ammo.

You really are stupid.


----------



## Rosy

2aguy said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am fully pro gun, but that does not change the fact that the AR-15 in the full auto version is not an accurate weapon, watered down to a semi auto it's stupid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the infantry we were trained to not fire on fully automatic when we had the M16......it wasn't useful and it wasted ammo.  You should really do some research before you post about guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All militaries and police depts. use full auto guns, just like I said you can not name one police or military force that uses the TOY semi AR-15, as it's as said a TOY.   You should really do some research before you post about guns.
> 
> Yawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...you really are stupid......do you even know what Semi automatic means?  The police do not use fully automatic weapons you moron......please.......do some research before you post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the police reach for an assault rifle, because there is some serious threat, they reach for a full auto weapon.  Only pistols are semi auto.
> 
> You are an 17 year old clown who dreams of being in the Army infantry someday.
> 
> Grow up kid, the police and military do not use semi auto AR-15's, in fact they would likely choose a far better weapon than that in the first place.  The AR-15 is the holy grail of 17 year old buffoons with NRA t shirts.
> 
> You know like you
> 
> Have you even kissed a girl yet?
> 
> Still waiting for you to list the police depts. that use semi auto AR-15's like you said they all do.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The police do not use fully automatic weapons......you need to do some basic research.
> 
> The military uses the select fire weapons....the M4 has a 3 round burst as well as a semi automatic mode....
> 
> When I was in, we used the M-16...it had semi automatic and fully automatic modes...... we were told to keep our weapons on semi automatic fire because 1) we had M60 machine guns for suppressive fire and 2) fully automatic fire from our rifles was a waste of ammo.
> 
> You really are stupid.
Click to expand...

You just said that no police force has automatic weapons in their arsenal, can you please provide evidence of this?

You think that you are intelligent, but you have not been correct once

Now grow up kid here is proof that the police use auto weapons, the Colt M4 commando is the new NYC weapon, Google it dopey, its automatic, fully

NYPD to spend more than $700,000 to buy automatic weapons for ESU cops - NY Daily News


----------



## hunarcy

Rosy said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like this woman..
> 
> 
> 
> Or these 200 women...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now lets see that happen if a man with the same skills shoots back at her.  The street AR-15 is useless as shit for home defense, pick one up and all enemies will assume you have a full auto gun that you do not have and treat you as such.  Any asswipe can shoot a paper target, as they never make you duck for cover.  Little kids will however be impressed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you just hit on why the gun is the best weapon for self defense......if a woman has to shoot it out with a man, they are on equal footing, the man's larger size, strength and aggression mean nothing to a woman with a gun.....they are equal....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So in your mind rifles are good in close encounters and can be concealed in a pocket
> 
> You are a functional retard.
> 
> How many guns do you own?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Your posts are so erratic it is hard to tell so....are you a pro-gun Rights individual, or a gun grabber?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am fully pro gun, but that does not change the fact that the AR-15 in the full auto version is not an accurate weapon, watered down to a semi auto it's stupid
Click to expand...


The AR-15 does not come in a full auto version.  The automatic rifle that LOOKS like an AR-15 is designated as an M-16 and is reserved exclusively for the Military.


----------



## Rosy

hunarcy said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now lets see that happen if a man with the same skills shoots back at her.  The street AR-15 is useless as shit for home defense, pick one up and all enemies will assume you have a full auto gun that you do not have and treat you as such.  Any asswipe can shoot a paper target, as they never make you duck for cover.  Little kids will however be impressed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you just hit on why the gun is the best weapon for self defense......if a woman has to shoot it out with a man, they are on equal footing, the man's larger size, strength and aggression mean nothing to a woman with a gun.....they are equal....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So in your mind rifles are good in close encounters and can be concealed in a pocket
> 
> You are a functional retard.
> 
> How many guns do you own?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Your posts are so erratic it is hard to tell so....are you a pro-gun Rights individual, or a gun grabber?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am fully pro gun, but that does not change the fact that the AR-15 in the full auto version is not an accurate weapon, watered down to a semi auto it's stupid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The AR-15 does not come in a full auto version.  The sutomatic rifle that LOOKS like an AR-15 is designated as an M-16 and is reserved exclusively for the Military.
Click to expand...

Wrong, police forces use all sorts of full auto weapons, including the m16 which is outdated anyway.


----------



## hunarcy

Rosy said:


> hunarcy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you just hit on why the gun is the best weapon for self defense......if a woman has to shoot it out with a man, they are on equal footing, the man's larger size, strength and aggression mean nothing to a woman with a gun.....they are equal....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So in your mind rifles are good in close encounters and can be concealed in a pocket
> 
> You are a functional retard.
> 
> How many guns do you own?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Your posts are so erratic it is hard to tell so....are you a pro-gun Rights individual, or a gun grabber?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am fully pro gun, but that does not change the fact that the AR-15 in the full auto version is not an accurate weapon, watered down to a semi auto it's stupid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The AR-15 does not come in a full auto version.  The sutomatic rifle that LOOKS like an AR-15 is designated as an M-16 and is reserved exclusively for the Military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong, police forces use all sorts of full auto weapons, including the m16 which is outdated anyway.
Click to expand...


Go back and look at what was written.  I did not address whether police forces use full auto weapons.  Some departments do and some do not.  I merely pointed out that you were falsely claiming an AR-15 was fully automatic.  It is not.  The M-16 has an automatic function, not the AR-15


----------



## Rosy

hunarcy said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hunarcy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So in your mind rifles are good in close encounters and can be concealed in a pocket
> 
> You are a functional retard.
> 
> How many guns do you own?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your posts are so erratic it is hard to tell so....are you a pro-gun Rights individual, or a gun grabber?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am fully pro gun, but that does not change the fact that the AR-15 in the full auto version is not an accurate weapon, watered down to a semi auto it's stupid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The AR-15 does not come in a full auto version.  The sutomatic rifle that LOOKS like an AR-15 is designated as an M-16 and is reserved exclusively for the Military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong, police forces use all sorts of full auto weapons, including the m16 which is outdated anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Go back and look at what was written.  I did not address whether police forces use full auto weapons.  Some departments do and some do not.  I merely pointed out that you were falsely claiming an AR-15 was fully automatic.  It is not.  The M-16 has an automatic function, not the AR-15
Click to expand...

Then this gun is not real
Colt AR15/M16 223 full auto for sale

The auto ar 15 was the prototype for the colt m16. 

Feel free to call dopey olly

next


----------



## 2aguy

Rosy said:


> hunarcy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hunarcy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your posts are so erratic it is hard to tell so....are you a pro-gun Rights individual, or a gun grabber?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am fully pro gun, but that does not change the fact that the AR-15 in the full auto version is not an accurate weapon, watered down to a semi auto it's stupid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The AR-15 does not come in a full auto version.  The sutomatic rifle that LOOKS like an AR-15 is designated as an M-16 and is reserved exclusively for the Military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong, police forces use all sorts of full auto weapons, including the m16 which is outdated anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Go back and look at what was written.  I did not address whether police forces use full auto weapons.  Some departments do and some do not.  I merely pointed out that you were falsely claiming an AR-15 was fully automatic.  It is not.  The M-16 has an automatic function, not the AR-15
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then this gun is not real
> Colt AR15/M16 223 full auto for sale
> 
> The auto ar 15 was the prototype for the colt m16.
> 
> Feel free to call dopey olly
> 
> next
Click to expand...


What part of AR-15 not being the M-16 are you not understanding?


----------



## hunarcy

Rosy said:


> hunarcy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hunarcy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your posts are so erratic it is hard to tell so....are you a pro-gun Rights individual, or a gun grabber?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am fully pro gun, but that does not change the fact that the AR-15 in the full auto version is not an accurate weapon, watered down to a semi auto it's stupid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The AR-15 does not come in a full auto version.  The sutomatic rifle that LOOKS like an AR-15 is designated as an M-16 and is reserved exclusively for the Military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong, police forces use all sorts of full auto weapons, including the m16 which is outdated anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Go back and look at what was written.  I did not address whether police forces use full auto weapons.  Some departments do and some do not.  I merely pointed out that you were falsely claiming an AR-15 was fully automatic.  It is not.  The M-16 has an automatic function, not the AR-15
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then this gun is not real
> Colt AR15/M16 223 full auto for sale
> 
> The auto ar 15 was the prototype for the colt m16.
> 
> Feel free to call dopey olly
> 
> next
Click to expand...


It's a mis-marked M-16. An AR-15 is the civilian version of an M-16 and is ONLY sold as a semi-automatic rifle.  In order to prevent a civilian semi-automatic AR-15 from being readily converted for use with the select fire components a number of features were changed. Parts changed include the lower receiver, bolt carrier, hammer, trigger, disconnector, and safety/mode selector. The semi-automatic bolt carrier has a longer lightening slot to prevent the bolt's engagement with an automatic sear.


----------



## Papageorgio

Crepitus said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> More gun crime in Australia.....
> 
> 
> 
> 1/25th the rate of firearm homicides in the US. That must be because of the lack of gun control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People kill people not firearms… Shit for brains
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you fell better about yourself when you call people names?  Does it make you feel tough?  Does it help you compensate for your mommy not loving you enough?  Doesn't help you forget about how your daddy snuck into your room at night?  What is it with you?
Click to expand...


Three straight post of calling people names and then you are criticizing someone else? Lol! Thanks for the laugh.


----------



## Crepitus

Papageorgio said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> More gun crime in Australia.....
> 
> 
> 
> 1/25th the rate of firearm homicides in the US. That must be because of the lack of gun control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People kill people not firearms… Shit for brains
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you fell better about yourself when you call people names?  Does it make you feel tough?  Does it help you compensate for your mommy not loving you enough?  Doesn't help you forget about how your daddy snuck into your room at night?  What is it with you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Three straight post of calling people names and then you are criticizing someone else? Lol! Thanks for the laugh.
Click to expand...

You are gonna need to post those incidents up.  I'm pretty sure that's not true.


----------



## there4eyeM

Insisting that the AR15 isn't the replica of an M16 removes the only incentive to buy it. Those who do buy it do so because they know it is a (very slightly) different version of the military cousin.
'Gunners' say that 'guns' are not the problem in America. 
This is true.
The problem is the sick fascination with violence. That, connected to firearms, is the tremendous hazard. The AR is a good example of this. It is totally image, not function. It looks "bad". That is an indication that the interest in the firearm is misplaced.


----------



## Rustic

there4eyeM said:


> Insisting that the AR15 isn't the replica of an M16 removes the only incentive to buy it. Those who do buy it do so because they know it is a (very slightly) different version of the military cousin.
> 'Gunners' say that 'guns' are not the problem in America.
> This is true.
> The problem is the sick fascination with violence. That, connected to firearms, is the tremendous hazard. The AR is a good example of this. It is totally image, not function. It looks "bad". That is an indication that the interest in the firearm is misplaced.


...and still an ar15 is nothing more than a sporting rifle


----------



## Papageorgio

Crepitus said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> More gun crime in Australia.....
> 
> 
> 
> 1/25th the rate of firearm homicides in the US. That must be because of the lack of gun control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People kill people not firearms… Shit for brains
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you fell better about yourself when you call people names?  Does it make you feel tough?  Does it help you compensate for your mommy not loving you enough?  Doesn't help you forget about how your daddy snuck into your room at night?  What is it with you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Three straight post of calling people names and then you are criticizing someone else? Lol! Thanks for the laugh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are gonna need to post those incidents up.  I'm pretty sure that's not true.
Click to expand...




Crepitus said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, 7 people killed this the worst mass shooting in 22 years but gun control is failing!
> 
> Where do these dingbats come from?
Click to expand...




Crepitus said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Straw man alert!  Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.
Click to expand...




Crepitus said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've never heard anyone say gun control means zero gun violence actually.  Glad you are still being dishonest!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re the ones that said more frivolous gun control laws means no violent crime...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Buzzzt!!!  Second straw man alert!  Nobody but followers of the NRA cult says that.
> 
> Again I say "you idjits need to memorise some new talking points".
Click to expand...


----------



## Crepitus

Papageorgio said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1/25th the rate of firearm homicides in the US. That must be because of the lack of gun control.
> 
> 
> 
> People kill people not firearms… Shit for brains
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you fell better about yourself when you call people names?  Does it make you feel tough?  Does it help you compensate for your mommy not loving you enough?  Doesn't help you forget about how your daddy snuck into your room at night?  What is it with you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Three straight post of calling people names and then you are criticizing someone else? Lol! Thanks for the laugh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are gonna need to post those incidents up.  I'm pretty sure that's not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, 7 people killed this the worst mass shooting in 22 years but gun control is failing!
> 
> Where do these dingbats come from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Straw man alert!  Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've never heard anyone say gun control means zero gun violence actually.  Glad you are still being dishonest!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re the ones that said more frivolous gun control laws means no violent crime...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Buzzzt!!!  Second straw man alert!  Nobody but followers of the NRA cult says that.
> 
> Again I say "you idjits need to memorise some new talking points".
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Lol, you are obviously a sensitive little flower, offended by terms like "idjits" and "dingbats".  Also, if you will look, those were retorts to being called things like "shit for brains" which if you are honset you will admit is somewhat more offensive than "dingbat".

Next nonsense?


----------



## Papageorgio

Crepitus said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> People kill people not firearms… Shit for brains
> 
> 
> 
> Do you fell better about yourself when you call people names?  Does it make you feel tough?  Does it help you compensate for your mommy not loving you enough?  Doesn't help you forget about how your daddy snuck into your room at night?  What is it with you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Three straight post of calling people names and then you are criticizing someone else? Lol! Thanks for the laugh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are gonna need to post those incidents up.  I'm pretty sure that's not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, 7 people killed this the worst mass shooting in 22 years but gun control is failing!
> 
> Where do these dingbats come from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Straw man alert!  Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've never heard anyone say gun control means zero gun violence actually.  Glad you are still being dishonest!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re the ones that said more frivolous gun control laws means no violent crime...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Buzzzt!!!  Second straw man alert!  Nobody but followers of the NRA cult says that.
> 
> Again I say "you idjits need to memorise some new talking points".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, you are obviously a sensitive little flower, offended by terms like "idjits" and "dingbats".  Also, if you will look, those were retorts to being called things like "shit for brains" which if you are honset you will admit is somewhat more offensive than "dingbat".
> 
> Next nonsense?
Click to expand...


It doesn’t bother me, you are the one bitching about name calling, I thought is was funny.


----------



## Crepitus

Papageorgio said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you fell better about yourself when you call people names?  Does it make you feel tough?  Does it help you compensate for your mommy not loving you enough?  Doesn't help you forget about how your daddy snuck into your room at night?  What is it with you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Three straight post of calling people names and then you are criticizing someone else? Lol! Thanks for the laugh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are gonna need to post those incidents up.  I'm pretty sure that's not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, 7 people killed this the worst mass shooting in 22 years but gun control is failing!
> 
> Where do these dingbats come from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Straw man alert!  Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never heard anyone say gun control means zero gun violence actually.  Glad you are still being dishonest!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re the ones that said more frivolous gun control laws means no violent crime...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Buzzzt!!!  Second straw man alert!  Nobody but followers of the NRA cult says that.
> 
> Again I say "you idjits need to memorise some new talking points".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, you are obviously a sensitive little flower, offended by terms like "idjits" and "dingbats".  Also, if you will look, those were retorts to being called things like "shit for brains" which if you are honset you will admit is somewhat more offensive than "dingbat".
> 
> Next nonsense?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn’t bother me, you are the one bitching about name calling, I thought is was funny.
Click to expand...

Right, it doesn't bother you so much you had to try to call me on it.


----------



## Papageorgio

Crepitus said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Three straight post of calling people names and then you are criticizing someone else? Lol! Thanks for the laugh.
> 
> 
> 
> You are gonna need to post those incidents up.  I'm pretty sure that's not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, 7 people killed this the worst mass shooting in 22 years but gun control is failing!
> 
> Where do these dingbats come from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Straw man alert!  Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.
> 
> You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> You’re the ones that said more frivolous gun control laws means no violent crime...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Buzzzt!!!  Second straw man alert!  Nobody but followers of the NRA cult says that.
> 
> Again I say "you idjits need to memorise some new talking points".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, you are obviously a sensitive little flower, offended by terms like "idjits" and "dingbats".  Also, if you will look, those were retorts to being called things like "shit for brains" which if you are honset you will admit is somewhat more offensive than "dingbat".
> 
> Next nonsense?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn’t bother me, you are the one bitching about name calling, I thought is was funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right, it doesn't bother you so much you had to try to call me on it.
Click to expand...


And it didn’t bother you that you cried about it. Lol!


----------



## 2aguy

there4eyeM said:


> Insisting that the AR15 isn't the replica of an M16 removes the only incentive to buy it. Those who do buy it do so because they know it is a (very slightly) different version of the military cousin.
> 'Gunners' say that 'guns' are not the problem in America.
> This is true.
> The problem is the sick fascination with violence. That, connected to firearms, is the tremendous hazard. The AR is a good example of this. It is totally image, not function. It looks "bad". That is an indication that the interest in the firearm is misplaced.




Completely different from the M4 and M16 but why should you tell the truth.  The M4 and the M16 have a select fire capability the AR-15 does not have.  The M4 can fire a 3 round burst, and the M16 can fire fully automatically.  The AR-15 is a semi automatic rifle, no different from all the other semi automatic civilian rifles....saying there is only a slight difference is a lie.


----------



## Rustic

there4eyeM said:


> Insisting that the AR15 isn't the replica of an M16 removes the only incentive to buy it. Those who do buy it do so because they know it is a (very slightly) different version of the military cousin.
> 'Gunners' say that 'guns' are not the problem in America.
> This is true.
> The problem is the sick fascination with violence. That, connected to firearms, is the tremendous hazard. The AR is a good example of this. It is totally image, not function. It looks "bad". That is an indication that the interest in the firearm is misplaced.


Dumbass, you know nothing of firearms.
AR15s are the most versatile of all firearms, they are sporting rifles that make for great home defense tools, they are fabulous hunting rifles for staters all the way to professionals/guides.  
But then again we all know it’s not about guns it’s all about control with you fuck ups


----------



## there4eyeM

The accusations from lying, worthless twerps doesn't change the etymology of things. Perhaps you have persuaded your already deluded selves of your position, but it is as ridiculous as your insensitivity to your fellow citizens.
You encourage the sickness of American society and then dare to criticize any who differ from your illness. Fine. You will see the results of what you sow.
Adieu.


----------



## theliq

Rosy said:


> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.


So because a Depressed Grandfather decides to kill his family,to you proves our Gun Laws are not working is in a word BULLSHIT...it is working extremely well actually,you can now return to your masters the NG Lobby in America...AND SHUT THE DOOR BEHIND YOU


----------



## skye

theliq said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.
> 
> 
> 
> So because a Depressed Grandfather decides to kill his family,to you proves our Gun Laws are not working is in a word BULLSHIT...it is working extremely well actually,you can now return to your masters the NG Lobby in America...AND SHUT THE DOOR BEHIND YOU
Click to expand...



Australia is NOT UNDER GLOBALIST CONTROL ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!

Get it theliq???????

No more New World Order in Australia!  

NO MORE GLOBLALISM IN OZ!


GET IT THELIQ????????????


----------



## theliq

skye said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.
> 
> 
> 
> So because a Depressed Grandfather decides to kill his family,to you proves our Gun Laws are not working is in a word BULLSHIT...it is working extremely well actually,you can now return to your masters the NG Lobby in America...AND SHUT THE DOOR BEHIND YOU
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Australia is NOT UNDER GLOBALIST CONTROL ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Get it theliq???????
> 
> No more New World Order in Australia!
> 
> NO MORE GLOBLALISM IN OZ!
> 
> 
> GET IT THELIQ????????????
Click to expand...

We have Globalism...but without America,all good,no all Great


----------



## skye

theliq said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.
> 
> 
> 
> So because a Depressed Grandfather decides to kill his family,to you proves our Gun Laws are not working is in a word BULLSHIT...it is working extremely well actually,you can now return to your masters the NG Lobby in America...AND SHUT THE DOOR BEHIND YOU
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Australia is NOT UNDER GLOBALIST CONTROL ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Get it theliq???????
> 
> No more New World Order in Australia!
> 
> NO MORE GLOBLALISM IN OZ!
> 
> 
> GET IT THELIQ????????????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We have Globalism...but without America,all good,no all Great
Click to expand...


No globalism is good.....

globalism is scum

cheers


----------



## theliq

skye said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.
> 
> 
> 
> So because a Depressed Grandfather decides to kill his family,to you proves our Gun Laws are not working is in a word BULLSHIT...it is working extremely well actually,you can now return to your masters the NG Lobby in America...AND SHUT THE DOOR BEHIND YOU
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Australia is NOT UNDER GLOBALIST CONTROL ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Get it theliq???????
> 
> No more New World Order in Australia!
> 
> NO MORE GLOBLALISM IN OZ!
> 
> 
> GET IT THELIQ????????????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We have Globalism...but without America,all good,no all Great
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No globalism is good.....
> 
> globalism is scum
> 
> cheers
Click to expand...

The biggest Globalists are the USA,I don't think you know what the word means...I think you as a Nation have ripped off most nations worldwide,You are just Trumizing like most Trump Door mats


----------



## skye

funny ^^^ 

no need for an answer


----------



## Rosy

theliq said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.
> 
> 
> 
> So because a Depressed Grandfather decides to kill his family,to you proves our Gun Laws are not working is in a word BULLSHIT...it is working extremely well actually,you can now return to your masters the NG Lobby in America...AND SHUT THE DOOR BEHIND YOU
Click to expand...


Please detail how you are going to reduce guns in the hands of criminals who do not follow the law, anywhere?

Then Vaseline up again


----------



## francoHFW

skye said:


> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In domestic disputes anything goes, so to speak.... knives, baseball bats, etc, even hands....so
> 
> I don't blame the gun.
Click to expand...

Always good to have a few around, keep a couple in your car for the road rage... LOL


----------



## francoHFW

francoHFW said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING
> 
> 
> 
> One can tell that because the US has firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In domestic disputes anything goes, so to speak.... knives, baseball bats, etc, even hands....so
> 
> I don't blame the gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Always good to have a few around, keep a couple in your car for the road rage... LOL
Click to expand...

Our major problem is stress and insanity when 26% of Americans are supposedly nuts... Why are we the only country without Healthcare daycare living wage good vacations cheap college and training, good infrastructure, super duper? And we are the richest one... Great job, GOP and silly dupes like you.


----------



## francoHFW

Rosy said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.
> 
> 
> 
> So because a Depressed Grandfather decides to kill his family,to you proves our Gun Laws are not working is in a word BULLSHIT...it is working extremely well actually,you can now return to your masters the NG Lobby in America...AND SHUT THE DOOR BEHIND YOU
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please detail how you are going to reduce guns in the hands of criminals who do not follow the law, anywhere?
> 
> Then Vaseline up again
Click to expand...

Have a law with strong punishment for illegal weapons and crime with weapon d u h... Which GOP blocks of course, totally bought by the NRA speaking of nuts...


----------



## theliq

Rosy said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot
> 
> ‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years
> 
> An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.
> 
> Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.
> 
> The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.
> 
> “ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”
> 
> _[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]_
> 
> Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.
> 
> 
> 
> So because a Depressed Grandfather decides to kill his family,to you proves our Gun Laws are not working is in a word BULLSHIT...it is working extremely well actually,you can now return to your masters the NG Lobby in America...AND SHUT THE DOOR BEHIND YOU
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please detail how you are going to reduce guns in the hands of criminals who do not follow the law, anywhere?
> 
> Then Vaseline up again
Click to expand...

You cannot,criminals will obtain weapons,so .5% may obtain illegal guns but the rest of the population No Guns....most Criminals fight amongst themselves but when we get them,and the punishment is very bad for them,prison oftened heavy fines and drug dealers,Prison and  LOSS OF ALL ASSETS,home,properties,cars,jewels EVERYTHING...hard on the families but harder on the people who are dependent on drugs,you get caught bringing in drugs(even unsuspecting mules) it's 20 years+..your comment is Vaseline


----------

