# Anniversary of ruby ridge massacre



## Preacher (Aug 22, 2016)

RIP. Samuel and Vicky Weaver murdered by tyrannical thugs


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## strollingbones (Aug 22, 2016)

i agree with the rip.....randy weaver was a coward.....they kill his wife and he comes out alive?


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## daws101 (Aug 22, 2016)

Randy Weaver, a white separatist, had been targeted by the federal government after failing to appear in court to face charges related to his selling of two illegal sawed-off shotguns to an Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) informant.


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## strollingbones (Aug 22, 2016)

randy weaver was truly railroaded by the fucking feds....they kill his wife while she is holding her newborn in her arms....he surrenders and fucking sues....blood money


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## Dekster (Aug 22, 2016)

strollingbones said:


> randy weaver was truly railroaded by the fucking feds....they kill his wife while she is holding her newborn in her arms....he surrenders and fucking sues....blood money



Then he should have availed himself of the courts with a wife and son instead of doing it without them.


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## strollingbones (Aug 22, 2016)

feds opened fire first.....


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## daws101 (Aug 22, 2016)

strollingbones said:


> feds opened fire first.....


On August 22, *Lon Horiuchi*, an FBI sniper hiding about 200 yards (183 metres) from the cabin at Ruby Ridge, opened fire when he believed Weaver and Harris were preparing to shoot at an FBI helicopter. The first shot hit*Randy Weaver* in the arm.


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## whitehall (Aug 23, 2016)

It happened during the republican administration of George H. Bush. The out of control ATF agency was looking for a big score when budget time came around. To make a long story short they entrapped a citizen to force him into being a federal informant. Eventually they murdered Randy Weaver's son and shot Weaver and his friend. A FBI sniper was indicted for manslaughter when he shot Mrs. Weaver in the head as she was holding an 18 month old child in her arms and the charges were quietly dismissed by a federal judge. Randy Weaver was subsequently convicted of a bureaucratic charge and was quietly awarded a million dollars for the abuses by federal law enforcement. The same ATF renagades went on to bigger things when they rewrote the Constitution during the Clinton Administration and incinerated about 8o men women and children at Waco.


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## daws101 (Aug 23, 2016)

The Branch Davidians: Oh, My God, They're Killing Themselves!


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## whitehall (Aug 25, 2016)

daws101 said:


> The Branch Davidians: Oh, My God, They're Killing Themselves!


Ruby Ridge was a preview of what the insanity of the federal government could accomplish. To make it short an innocent citizen was compelled by an out of control federal agency and forced to be an ATF informant. When Randy Weaver refused, the ATF sent a slick operative to his property and offered amateur gunsmith Weaver a lot of money to cut the barrel of a shotgun to a specific length. Weaver should have been smart enough but he wasn't and took the money and cut the shotgun barrel to 1/8 of an inch below federal regulations and unknowingly became the ATF's bitch. Weaver was indicted and they changed the court date without notifying him and when he didn't show up he became a "fugitive from justice" in the eyes of the federal government. The ATF stopped Weaver and his wife driving down an icy road and threw them both down in the slush and handcuffed them and once again offered Weaver a chance to be a federal bitch and he again refused. The rest is history.


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## daws101 (Aug 25, 2016)

whitehall said:


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## Picaro (Aug 26, 2016)

Doesn't matter who or what Weaver's politics were, the FBI was flat out wrong and criminal in this instance. Shooting his wife was completely irresponsible.


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## Steven_R (Aug 30, 2016)

Shot his wife, and then mocked him about her death over loudspeakers for days while her corpse was still on the kitchen floor.


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## daws101 (Aug 31, 2016)

Steven_R said:


> Shot his wife, and then mocked him about her death over loudspeakers for days while her corpse was still on the kitchen floor.


He could have surrendered anytime .
Your point?


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## Steven_R (Sep 12, 2016)

My point is the FBI sniper put one through the head of an unarmed woman and then made fun of it just to twist the knife.


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## mudwhistle (Sep 12, 2016)

daws101 said:


> Randy Weaver, a white separatist, had been targeted by the federal government after failing to appear in court to face charges related to his selling of two illegal sawed-off shotguns to an Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) informant.


Sounds like your typical Milwaukee, Baltimore, or Ferguson protester......only white.


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## daws101 (Sep 12, 2016)

Steven_R said:


> My point is the FBI sniper put one through the head of an unarmed woman and then made fun of it just to twist the knife.


He could have surrendered long before that happened too.
Still no point.


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## daws101 (Sep 12, 2016)

mudwhistle said:


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Seems color doesn't count for much till it works to your imagined advantage.


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## Steven_R (Sep 12, 2016)

And they could have not shot an unarmed woman in the face.


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## RodISHI (Sep 12, 2016)

daws101 said:


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This shit seems to happen to American citizens more when Democrat are in power. Apparently the only people that have rights as citizens are a few that also believe they have the right to tell others how they should think, speak and believe.


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## Steven_R (Sep 12, 2016)

I had to get it on man! I had to! She was holding a baby!


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## mudwhistle (Sep 12, 2016)

daws101 said:


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I suppose you feel he and his wife deserved to die because of a law politicians created to make it look like they were doing something about crime.

I don't know enough to comment further, but it seems like this kind of thing happens alot when Liberals are in the White House.


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## Steven_R (Sep 12, 2016)

Why is sawing off a piece of metal to an arbitrary length bad, but an FBI sniper shooting an unarmed woman in the face not so bad?


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## daws101 (Sep 12, 2016)

Steven_R said:


> And they could have not shot an unarmed woman in the face.


Would not have happened if he had surrendered. 
You can't rationalize this .


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## daws101 (Sep 12, 2016)

RodISHI said:


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The melodrama!


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## Steven_R (Sep 12, 2016)

daws101 said:


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None of which would have been necessary had the government informant not kept pestering Weaver to saw off the shotguns in the first place. The government put the whole thing in motion and owns it.


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## daws101 (Sep 12, 2016)

mudwhistle said:


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Sawed off shotguns have always been illegal . No matter who was in office 
Blaming the democrats  a dodge.


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## Steven_R (Sep 12, 2016)

So is shooting unarmed women in the face. Oh wait, Horiuchi was doing his "duty" and got immunity for it.

Who knew not coming out with one's hands up after watching government agents gun down one's son was an automatic death sentence?


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## daws101 (Sep 12, 2016)

Steven_R said:


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Weaver could have quit any time .
But he didn't. 
Meaning he is either  gullible , or he chose to do what he did.
His beliefs were/ are guaranteed way to get into trouble with the law.
If he didn't know that, then his ignorance got his wife killed if he did than his arrogant got her killed.


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## Steven_R (Sep 12, 2016)

His ignorance didn't kill an unarmed Vicki Weaver; Lon Horiuchi did.


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## daws101 (Sep 12, 2016)

Steven_R said:


> So is shooting unarmed women in the face. Oh wait, Horiuchi was doing his "duty" and got immunity for it.
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> Who knew not coming out with one's hands up after watching government agents gun down one's son was an automatic death sentence?


Collateral damage.


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## daws101 (Sep 12, 2016)

Steven_R said:


> His ignorance didn't kill an unarmed Vicki Weaver; Lon Horiuchi did.


 weaver put her in that situation what happened is all on him.


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## mudwhistle (Sep 12, 2016)

daws101 said:


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I never said Democrats. I said politicians. 

People just seem to end up dead alot when Liberals are in the White House.


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## Steven_R (Sep 12, 2016)

daws101 said:


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Weaver made Horiuchi put an unarmed Vicki Weaver in the crosshairs and pull the trigger and then laugh about it over the loudspeakers.

At what point did it become FBI SOP to simply kill unarmed people during a standoff?


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## Picaro (Sep 12, 2016)

Steven_R said:


> Why is sawing off a piece of metal to an arbitrary length bad, but an FBI sniper shooting an unarmed woman in the face not so bad?



Daws is a sick little gimp who never has any real interest in these topics outside of trying to troll them to the Flame Zone. He is a sociopath who has no idea what it is you're talking about here, or in any other thread that requires empathy and common sense, he's just not capable of that sort of understanding, so just ignore him and leave him to his homosexual rape fantasies and whatever else rings his bell.


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## Faun (Sep 12, 2016)

mudwhistle said:


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Bush  (R) was in office when this happened.


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## mudwhistle (Sep 12, 2016)

Faun said:


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So was Waco I suppose. 
Besides........

Bush and Clinton were pretty close.

What makes you think Bush and Clinton families aren't in the same Cabal?


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## Picaro (Sep 12, 2016)

mudwhistle said:


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Clinton pretty much rubber stamped everything that came across his desk from Bush I's term, same as Obama did for Bush II.
C


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## daws101 (Sep 12, 2016)

Steven_R said:


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Yep he did , his actions before the stand off caused all of it to happen his wife getting killed was as tragic as it was inevitable .
Weaver caused it to happen .
Your tantrums all these years later won't change anything or bring back the dead.


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## daws101 (Sep 12, 2016)

Picaro said:


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Who's homosexual rape fantasies again? 
You constantly bring them up no matter what the subject. 
Basement dweller.


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## daws101 (Sep 12, 2016)

Picaro said:


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Bahahahaha!


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## Faun (Sep 12, 2016)

mudwhistle said:


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Pretty  stupid excuse after your demonstration of ignorance. Still, Ruby Ridge happened under Bush and Bush was not a Liberal. So much for your idiocy.


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## Faun (Sep 12, 2016)

Steven_R said:


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What a shame you resort to lying. In reality, Vicki Weaver was not in Horiuchi's crosshairs. She was, unfortunately, in the line of fire; but standing behind a door where Horiuchi couldn't see her.


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## mudwhistle (Sep 12, 2016)

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Obviously you didn't read my comment that I didn't know enough about Ruby Ridge to comment further, but it did seem like this kind of thing happens alot while Liberals are in the White House. I'll give you a few examples.


How many people died in the Branch Davidian compound in Waco. Was that under Bush?

Then I remember Clinton following Bush and killing all of those tribal leaders in Somalia in 93' which led to BlackHawk Down in the battle of Mogadishu. Wonder how many people died in that one. 18 Rangers and Delta operators along with hundreds of Somali tribesmen. Was that under Bush?

And Bills negligence led to 911 although the attack happened on Bush jr's watch but they say that the Bill Clinton pretty much made 911 a possibility. 

Not to mention Benghazi. Seems death always seems to follow Bill and Hillary. Was that under Bush?

Obama gets us out of Iraq and ISIS kills hundreds of thousands of Syrians, Iraqis, and Kurds. Nobody knows just how many. 500,000 - 1,000,000. Was that under Bush too?

But you're always the type to discount all of this because of some imaginary mistake. My thoughts were mostly on Waco, Mogadishu, Syria, and Benghazi. I repeat, I didn't focus on just Ruby Ridge and I did say I didn't know all that much about it.....only that Ruby Ridge and Waco were used as motivation for the Oklahoma City Bombing....which happened under Clinton......or was it Bush????

Maybe not.


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## Faun (Sep 12, 2016)

mudwhistle said:


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Riiiight....because Mogadishu, Syria, and Benghazi were failed FBI confrontations with U.S. citizens just like Ruby Ridge.


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## Steven_R (Sep 12, 2016)

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Wrong. Horiuchi shot Weaver in the shoulder. Vicki was standing in the doorway yelling for Randy to get back in the house when Horiuchi popper her. His defense was that someone was aiming a weapon at a chopper and he shot at Harris and missed and oops got Vicki in the grape...despite no chopper being in the area at the time. Or she was standing behind the door. The FBI wasn't quite sure depending on which report was being written and for who's eyes.

Guess he couldn't tell the difference between a baby and a rifle. The look the same after all. Or he was just a shitty sniper who forgot that whole thing about knowing what's beyond your target and not firing if there's any doubt about what might get hit.

Or it was deliberate.


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## Faun (Sep 12, 2016)

Steven_R said:


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Here's weaver showing the single bullet hole (in the glass) in the door his wife was behind when shot. There's no way she was in anyone's crosshairs standing behind that door.






Now stop lying.


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## mudwhistle (Sep 13, 2016)

Faun said:


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What part of "I don't know enough to comment further" don't you understand? As I was pretty clear before in my original post, I wasn't commenting further on Ruby Ridge because I didn't know enough of the details.

One thing seems clear to me, and you would like to avoid, Liberals seem to have this habit of pushing people around and they also have this crazy habit of coming up with laws that result in normally law-abiding people ending up bumping heads with the ATF or some other government agencies. It happened under Clinton (*Waco, Elian Gonzalez*) and it happens all the time under Obama (*The Bundy Standoff, Gibson guitar factory*). Obama wants to lock peaceful citizens up all the while he's setting criminals free.

When it comes to overseas, they seem to be a group of grabasitic fuckups that can't even screw a light-bulb, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. Pulling out of Iraq, forcing regime change in Libya, and attempting to do the same in Syria. Is it any wonder that Obama was unpopular at the G20. They gave him a Nobel prize before he did anything over a friggen speech, and all he did was create death and destruction.

Benghazi wasn't the first time that the Clintons policies ended up in the deaths of Americans. I saw the same thing while I was stationed in Somalia in 93'. Everything was going well till Bubba decided to butcher a bunch of tribal leaders when they gathered to talk about peace with the UN. Instead, they got mowed down by a US gunship. (Obama likes to kill them with drone strikes) After that, there was no reconciliation that they would have accepted, which eventually led to the *Battle of Mogadishu*. Because of his refusal to allow US troops to have armored vehicles, because they have this silly policy that looking harmless will keep the bad guys away, 18 of our soldiers died in a firefight after they tried to snatch several clan members using Humvees and 5 ton trucks. None of them would have died if we had been allowed the armor that was requested. Every other country wisely provided their troops with armor. Benghazi just brought this back in focus with me.....course the media will not mention this. The Clintons like pushing people around and because of this, people die.

I was taking all of this into consideration when I said " but it seems like this kind of thing happens alot when Liberals are in the White House", meaning Liberals are supposed to be peace lovers, but it seems what they end up creating instead is hate and violence.


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## mudwhistle (Sep 13, 2016)

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What were they doing putting rounds through the window of a private residence. Did they think nobody would be hurt?


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## Faun (Sep 13, 2016)

mudwhistle said:


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You're simply too fucking rightarded. You bitch about deaths caused byﹰLiberals but ignore Bush's invasion into Iraq, which has caused far more deaths and strife than any actions by Clinton or Obama.


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## Faun (Sep 13, 2016)

mudwhistle said:


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They shouldn't have been. But anyone claiming Vicki Weaver was in their "crosshairs" is full of shit.


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## mudwhistle (Sep 13, 2016)

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Bullshit.
Just pure Bullshit.

You're one of those types that thinks that all wars have no purpose. It never occurs to you that some of them actually save lives.
If we hadn't dropped the bomb on Hiroshima you probably think everything would have been just hunky dory. Imagine the lives that would have been lost if we had carried out an invasion of the Japanese mainland. Why were we at war with Japan? Because they attacked us. They killed over 2000 at Pearl Harbor. They had taken over half of the Far East. They were butchering women and children in Indonesia and Manchuria.

How many people did Saddam kill while he was a dictator? I bet you never thought that his paying $25,000 to the families of suicide bombers in Israel was wrong. Or the fact that he was planning on doing exactly what Iran is doing today. Also, before we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, Al Qaeda had cells all over the US planning attacks. Bubba made sure that nobody in the CIA could talk to the FBI and didn't watch anyone because he and Hillary are so close to Hamas and they love Muslims and apparently have issues with Jews.
Obama is just doing what Bill and Hillary did, times ten. Now you can't even say Islamic Terror in the same sentence without one of you dickheads calling them a racist. While Bush was president after 911, he made sure that we were safe. Obama seems to be going out of his way to kill as many of us that he can. He's bringing them here by the thousands. Hillary wants to quadruple that. Common-sense doesn't even register with you people anymore.

I don't agree that going into Iraq was the best decision, but leaving Iraq, like Obama did, was even worse and you think it's Bush's fault Obama couldn't grab his ass with both hands free when it comes to foreign policy. Somalia was peaceful when Bill Clinton took office, but he turned it into an abortion, and Obama did the same exact thing only 1000 times worse when he pulled us out of Iraq. I don't give a flying-fuck about his excuses and the fact that he only did it because of the election and he needed to be able to brag about something other than killing Bin Laden. It was irresponsible, but that's what Democrats are good at, being irresponsible.


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## mudwhistle (Sep 13, 2016)

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Well, saying that Sarah Palin was trying to kill someone by putting targets on parts of Arizona is pretty stupid too. But then again, Sarah didn't put a round threw anyone's window far as I can tell.


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## Faun (Sep 13, 2016)

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Virtually every sentence in that diatribe you think of as a post, is wrong.


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## Faun (Sep 13, 2016)

mudwhistle said:


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More nonsense. 

Palin used crosshairs to identify legislatures who voted in favor of ObamaCare, not to say anyone was targeted and shot.

Whereas Steven_R wrongly claimed Horiuchi intentionally targeted Vicki Weaver in his crosshairs; when in fact, he couldn't even see her behind the door.


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## mudwhistle (Sep 13, 2016)

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Yeah......well at least that's a better response than resorting to calling me a racist. 
But your response amounts to nothing more than "I know you are....but what am I".


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## westwall (Sep 13, 2016)

daws101 said:


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The point is you progressives love for government to murder its citizens.  Now....which other government did that??????


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## mudwhistle (Sep 13, 2016)

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Yet the government sniper recklessly fired a round through a window without identifying any target, which is what an amateur does when he's trying to murder somebody with a lucky shot. That was cold-blooded murder.

You scumbags felt you could score political points after the fact by trying to tie Sarah Palin into a shooting, as if putting cross-hairs on a map is like pulling the trigger. That's just a cheap low-brow way to attempt to put the blame for the shooting on a political opponent.


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## Faun (Sep 13, 2016)

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I didn't call you a racist, ya moron. Just how fucked in the head are you?

Just an example of how off base your idiotic rant was ....


> _You're one of those types that thinks that all wars have no purpose. It never occurs to you that some of them actually save lives._


You're wrong, that's not true. I believe many wars serve purposes. WWII was completely justified and we helped squash the Nazis, Fascists, and Imperialists. I do recognize, that some don't. Like invading Iraq, a country which had not attacked us and did not have stockpiles of WMD that we invaded over. Nothing was gained or won by flipping the Middle East upside down.


> _If we hadn't dropped the bomb on Hiroshima you probably think everything would have been just hunky dory._


You're wrong again. I believe we did the right thing dropping those bombs on them. It saved lives and established the U.S. as a global super power.


> _Imagine the lives that would have been lost if we had carried out an invasion of the Japanese mainland. Why were we at war with Japan? Because they attacked us. They killed over 2000 at Pearl Harbor. They had taken over half of the Far East. They were butchering women and children in Indonesia and Manchuria._


Wrong again in thinking I'm not aware of that. Again, I fully support our position in WWII and thank G-d we prevailed. 

... and that was just your first paragraph. Every one after it was equally as off base.


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## Faun (Sep 13, 2016)

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More unsupportable drivel.

He was firing at Weaver, who was running into the house. While I agree it was reckless to fire into a house, there is no evidence he targeted her.



mudwhistle said:


> You scumbags felt you could score political points after the fact by trying to tie Sarah Palin into a shooting, as if putting cross-hairs on a map is like pulling the trigger. That's just a cheap low-brow way to attempt to put the blame for the shooting on a political opponent.


Sadly, your dementia worsens ... Sarah "The Quitter" Palin has nothing to do with this.


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## mudwhistle (Sep 14, 2016)

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You agree with me but everything I post is wrong?

Dude, Just STFU!!!

*Ignored*


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## Faun (Sep 14, 2016)

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WTF is wrong with you? You were flat out wrong on the first two examples I posted and you thought I believed differently on the third. That's what you get for _*assuming *_ you know what I believe. 

And you think ignoring me is going to make you sound coherent or that I will stop pointing out your inanities?


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