# Soldiers and PTSD



## BDBoop (Oct 8, 2013)

Back in the day - is this the same thing as 'shell-shocked?'

Anyway. This is well worth the time it takes to watch.


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 8, 2013)

Couldn't get the video to play.
Yes, another name for the same symptoms.


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## koshergrl (Oct 8, 2013)

Yupper yupper. 

There are about a million different degrees and manifestations of it, too.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 9, 2013)

BDBoop said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YbkZ8EpjQc
> 
> Back in the day - is this the same thing as 'shell-shocked?'
> 
> Anyway. This is well worth the time it takes to watch.



Shell shocked was not quite the same. Shell shock was often the result of physical injuries to the brain caused by the concussion of a blast, repeated blasts made the condition worse.
After bombardment it was found that wine bottles appeared intact but upon ooening shards of glass were found to have been shaken from the inside of the bottle by the concussion.
Repeated blasts caused increased damage.
Think of a punch drunk or partially brain injured boxer.

PTSD is a psychological condition with no specific features to aide diagnosis.

It is a false condition that enables liberals to dismiss veterans with opinions as crazy.
Nice handy word to silence dissent.
In the 60s and 70s liberals spat on veterans, today they just call PTSD.
The intent is the same.


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## Connery (Oct 9, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> BDBoop said:
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The term Shell Shock deserves more attention:

Shell shock, the term that would come to define the phenomenon, first appeared in the British medical journal The Lancet in February 1915, only six months after the commencement of the war. In a landmark article, Capt. Charles Myers of the Royal Army Medical Corps noted the remarkably close similarity of symptoms in three soldiers who had each been exposed to exploding shells: Case 1 had endured six or seven shells exploding around him; Case 2 had been buried under earth for 18 hours after a shell collapsed his trench; Case 3 had been blown off a pile of bricks 15 feet high. All three men exhibited symptoms of reduced visual fields, loss of smell and taste, and some loss of memory. Comment on these cases seems superfluous, Myers concluded, after documenting in detail the symptoms of each. They appear to constitute a definite class among others arising from the effects of shell-shock.

Early medical opinion took the common-sense view that the damage was commotional, or related to the severe concussive motion of the shaken brain in the soldiers skull. Shell shock, then, was initially deemed to be a physical injury, and the shellshocked soldier was thus entitled to a distinguishing wound stripe for his uniform, and to possible discharge and a war pension. *But by 1916, military and medical authorities were convinced that many soldiers exhibiting the characteristic symptomstrembling rather like a jelly shaking; headache; tinnitus, or ringing in the ear; dizziness; poor concentration; confusion; loss of memory; and disorders of sleephad been nowhere near exploding shells. Rather, their condition was one of neurasthenia, or weakness of the nervesin laymens terms, a nervous breakdown precipitated by the dreadful stress of war.*"
The Shock of War | History & Archaeology | Smithsonian Magazine


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## Sunshine (Oct 9, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> BDBoop said:
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That is not true.


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## Sunshine (Oct 9, 2013)

I don't have time to discuss this today.  I have treated many many cases of PTSD in veterans of all ages from WWII to OEF/OIF.  

Many things can cause PTSD, not just war.  Women who have been raped, children who are sexually abused, victims of violent crimes, workplace injuries, anything that puts one in fear for his/her life.  If anyone is interested they can look it up in the DSM IV TR.  SSRIs are helpful, but the flashbacks are not psychotic in nature, so antipsychotics don't help.  There are some very effective psychotherapy approaches out the now too.  The VA therapists are the experts.


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## BDBoop (Oct 9, 2013)

Yes, I am an adult survivor with PTSD, which I'm sure plays a part in why my heart goes out to this soldier.

I went looking for soldier support groups - maybe be a pen pal. I don't know. Whatever. Anybody have any recommendations?


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## BDBoop (Oct 9, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


> Couldn't get the video to play.
> Yes, another name for the same symptoms.



I tried it again and it started for me. Maybe look it up by title, "Level Black: PTSD and the war at home."


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 9, 2013)

Labeling soldiers has a better effect than spitting on them.
It's more of the same liberal hate.


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## Connery (Oct 9, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Labeling soldiers has a better effect than spitting on them.
> It's more of the same liberal hate.




Many times those labels are turned into psycho-esque pop culture themes which Hollywood exploits and perpetuates terrible misinformation to the public. Rambo comes to mind.


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## editec (Oct 9, 2013)

PTSD is something anyone who's gone through long periods of horror is likely to develop.

Soldiers in combat are simply one class sourceof that condition.

Plenty of people you meet every day have PTSD and don't even know what ails them.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 9, 2013)

editec said:


> PTSD is something anyone who's gone through long periods of horror is likely to develop.
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> Soldiers in combat are simply one class sourceof that condition.
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> Plenty of people you meet every day have PTSD and don't even know what ails them.



Most people in the USA are suffering PTSD.
The horror that obama subjects us to!!


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## Camp (Oct 9, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Labeling soldiers has a better effect than spitting on them.
> It's more of the same liberal hate.



Why are you so eager to trivialize wounded soldiers to lamely promote your political agenda? A topic comes up by a poster with a genuine desire to learn about a problem faced by our returning veterans and reachs out for information that could lead to how the poster and those who read this thread might understand and perhaps be helpful to our veterans and you find the need to hijack it into a selfish opportunity to remind everyone of how you hate liberals. Like that is important. Your opinion is so important that you are willing to mislead people on such a serious subject shows a complete lack of decency, and shame on you. Shame on you sir.


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 9, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> BDBoop said:
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Wrong. PTSD is a very real and nasty condition. After a few years of not being able to sleep more than an hour or two at a time I suspect you might agree. And it is not a condition restricted to veterans.


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 9, 2013)

BDBoop said:


> Yes, I am an adult survivor with PTSD, which I'm sure plays a part in why my heart goes out to this soldier.
> 
> I went looking for soldier support groups - maybe be a pen pal. I don't know. Whatever. Anybody have any recommendations?



Are you a veteran? The VA offers many good programs some of which include information for family members and the support of others with similar issues. There is a six week in-patient program in Salem Va. that I can recommend personally. Knowing you are not alone help a great deal by itself.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 9, 2013)

Camp said:


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Fuck of dick wad.
It's a fake condition.
Veterans don't need dumbass civvies telling them they have a mental condition that has no diagnostic tool, has no way to be measured and no specific symptoms.
The whole PTSD industry is a liberal one and relates only to the hate liberals have for veterans.
How often have vile liberals dismissed opposing views of veterans by sneering and saying things like " sounds like PTSD "?
Of course it is also a handy trick for a gun grab !!
Just declare all vets to have PTSD, grab their guns.
A liberals curiosity is never with the intent to help, only to further an agenda.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 9, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


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So insomniacs are all suffering from PTSD, should have their guns grabbed?
It bullshit gun grabbers propaganda, that's all.


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## whitehall (Oct 9, 2013)

Apparently under today's standards a member of the Military doesn't even have to be in combat to qualify for PTSD treatment. All they have to do is imagine they were in combat and have nightmares about it. Under those standards every kid who has reached the age of 15 and has seen an average of 10,000 killings on TV or the movies or video games is qualified for PTSD treatment.


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 9, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


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Bullshit. I was a combat medic in Vietnam and have worked in military and VA hospitals all over this country and in a few others. I am probably more conservative and a bigger gun nut than either of you or Whitehall. Nobody, BUT NOBODY, is more pro-vet than I and certainly not a couple of idiots who are so conceited as to think that just because they don't understand something it must not exist. You guys are right on the same level with those assholes who jeer at people missing arms and legs. Sit down. Shut up. And, if you make an effort, maybe even you might be able to learn something.


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## whitehall (Oct 9, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


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A former combat medic should have more intelligence than try to compare the criticism of PTSD to "jeering at people missing arms and legs" It's a cheap shot and an ignorant and insulting thing to say but sadly typical of the people who defend PTSD these days. If PTSD patients are so severely mentally disturbed that they are awarded a disability pension it is the duty of the government to make sure they do not have access to firearms. I don't call that "gun grabbing" it call it logical public safety.


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## freedombecki (Oct 9, 2013)

I grew up in a family in which my Dad suffered from PTSD. He had shrapnel in his body that set off detectors in airports before his death in 1992. When he got older, he couldn't turn around and had a hard time twisting his head to look for oncoming traffic. His head injuries made him schizophrenic at times, and he had difficulty relating to other people in every avenue of his life. Even so, he was an exemplary father and expected good behavior from the minors in the family at all times. He also endured 18 months of what killed many American soldiers--a starvation-style Japanese Prisoner of War camp which he never discussed in front of children.

Other people get PTSD also, and many women suffer it who have been physically or sexually abused, and so do others, such as children who endure too much screaming at home and too much loud noise, such as living in a house exposed to too much airplane landing and takeoff roaring noises.

A very good source for understanding what PTSD really is and who gets it is at the Wake Foundation website: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and Violence | wavetrust.org

If you or a member of your family have any symptoms as described on the page, please get them help. Thanks.


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## Sunshine (Oct 9, 2013)

BDBoop said:


> Yes, I am an adult survivor with PTSD, which I'm sure plays a part in why my heart goes out to this soldier.
> 
> I went looking for soldier support groups - maybe be a pen pal. I don't know. Whatever. Anybody have any recommendations?



There is an effort to have a VA clinic within 30 minutes of every veteran in the US.  Find out where the nearest one to you is.  Some of them keep food and clothing banks, they also have volunteers to help with various things.  It would be hard to get the name of one due to HIPAA laws, but they are always having 'stand downs' for homeless veterans.  I was never able to work them, but I donated many items to these efforts.  I think there may be a way to get names of active duty soldiers to write to, but I'm not sure.  Just check around on the web.


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## Sunshine (Oct 9, 2013)

Connery said:


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There is a video which your library may have called Haunted Heroes.  It is about Vietnam veterans who left society to live alone in the wilderness.  One of them claims to be the person that Rambo was based on.  The woods in KY and TN are full of them.  They just don't do well in society.  I have never seen so many lonely old men in my life.  Most have been married multiple times, and lost multiple jobs due to their PTSD.  Most don't really have enough to live on because they were never able to work long enough to draw SS.  About all they have are their veteran's benefits.


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## Sunshine (Oct 9, 2013)

whitehall said:


> Apparently under today's standards a member of the Military doesn't even have to be in combat to qualify for PTSD treatment. All they have to do is imagine they were in combat and have nightmares about it. Under those standards every kid who has reached the age of 15 and has seen an average of 10,000 killings on TV or the movies or video games is qualified for PTSD treatment.



That is not true.  Combat is not a requirement, but a traumatic event is.  And there are many instances during training when there would be an even traumatic enough to cause PTSD.  

"Imagining" you were in combat when you were not is not PTSD, that is psychosis.  A different problem altogether.


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## Sunshine (Oct 9, 2013)

whitehall said:


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A lot of people share your thinking.  The problem with it is that many people who NEED help won't get it because they seen their right to own guns hanging in the balance.  Here in KY, many people would not have enough food if they did not hunt the woodlands.   I have been treating PTSD for the better part of 25 years.  I have never had anyone shoot another person, and now I think about it, I've never had a patient shoot him/herself. It is simply a fallacy that they are not safe to own guns.  A person with PTSD would be far more dangerous in a car during a flashback because they are ducking for cover, not retaliating.


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## Sunshine (Oct 9, 2013)

freedombecki said:


> I grew up in a family in which my Dad suffered from PTSD. He had shrapnel in his body that set off detectors in airports before his death in 1992. When he got older, he couldn't turn around and had a hard time twisting his head to look for oncoming traffic. His head injuries made him schizophrenic at times, and he had difficulty relating to other people in every avenue of his life. Even so, he was an exemplary father and expected good behavior from the minors in the family at all times. He also endured 18 months of what killed many American soldiers--a starvation-style Japanese Prisoner of War camp which he never discussed in front of children.
> 
> Other people get PTSD also, and many women suffer it who have been physically or sexually abused, and so do others, such as children who endure too much screaming at home and too much loud noise, such as living in a house exposed to too much airplane landing and takeoff roaring noises.
> 
> ...



Good information.  The Misinformation on this thread is so thick you can cut it with a knife.


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## Connery (Oct 9, 2013)

Sunshine said:


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I am woefully aware of this. I was talking about Hollywood's perspective many times when portraying what a person who has PTSD is like.


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## Connery (Oct 9, 2013)

whitehall said:


> Apparently under today's standards a member of the Military doesn't even have to be in combat to qualify for PTSD treatment. All they have to do is imagine they were in combat and have nightmares about it. Under those standards every kid who has reached the age of 15 and has seen an average of 10,000 killings on TV or the movies or video games is qualified for PTSD treatment.



It is not only the events in combat that can cause PTSD.  "Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) is a mental health problem that can occur after someone goes through a traumatic event like war, assault, or disaster".


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 9, 2013)

whitehall said:


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Again, bullshit. The cheap shot is coming from you aimed at people injured in the line of duty exactly the same as any other injury. Your ignorance doesn't excuse your insult and you should be ashamed of yourself.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 10, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


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I have nothing to learn from the likes of you.
PTSD has no diagnostic tool, am I correct?
There are no key symptoms.
It is called a mental illness.
So a veteran can be declared mentally ill with no full diagnostic method being employed.
Once it's on record, it cannot be taken off.
It's a gun grab.
I was not a combat medic.
I was a combat infantryman with a 16 year career, the first 4 in an elite unit.
I have seen service in every shithole that my country deployed troops to between the years 1987 and 2003.
I could teach you a thing or two, doc.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 10, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


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Wow!!
Your such a tough guy!!
You following your employers direction on this?


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## Camp (Oct 10, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


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Combat Medics are the bravest and toughest soldiers on the battlefield, but they never admit it. PTSD comes with the job. Pretty much impossible to escape it.


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## Sunshine (Oct 10, 2013)

Camp said:


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People who work with veterans and hear in detail the things they have seen get what is known as Secondary PTSD.  

Vicarious traumatization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I only prescribed meds, and did not do therapy.  I well could have, but my case load as an NP never allowed that kind of time for any one patient, and we had very skilled therapists in the VA.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 10, 2013)

Camp said:


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So every combat veteran has PTSD?
Watch for the gun grab of veterans guns!!
All veterans are crazy after all.


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## Camp (Oct 10, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


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That is not what I said. You changed what I said about combat medics to include all combat veterans. You added the gun grab and vets are crazy stuff. I didn't say anything like that. I don't have a problem with veterans with some levels of PTSD having guns. Their are levels of PTSD. PTSD does does not automaticly make a person crazy. If you think PTSD means crazy vet you should try to learn about it because you are very poorly informed.


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## Michelle420 (Oct 10, 2013)

My Uncle had it, sometimes out of nowhere he would have a violent outburst, you never knew when it was going to happen.


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 10, 2013)

_"I have nothing to learn from the likes of you_.
Really? I am constantly being amazed at just how little most loud mouth know-it-alls actually do know."
_PTSD has no diagnostic tool, am I correct?_
No.
"There are no key symptoms."
 I don't know of any one symptom that always indicates PTSD. Or that is present in every case. Nor does it follow that PTSD is the only problem a person has. But once you have some experience with the disorder it is rarely hard to recognize 
_It is called a mental illness._
Is it? It is named a "disorder". Post Traumatic Stress *DISORDER.*
_So a veteran can be declared mentally ill with no full diagnostic method being employed._
That is untrue anywhere I know about personally. "Mental illness" is an opinion. "Incompetent" or "insane" are legal rulings that require a judge.  
_"Once it's on record, it cannot be taken off."[/_I]
What record? Medical records are to be kept private and by law cannot be shared except in certain cases. The same is true of legal records." I have nothing to learn from the likes of you".
Of course not. Silly me. I had forgotten that most Grunts were also seriously interested in psychology and studied psychiatry whenever they got a break from filling sandbags. 
_It's a gun grab_.
You are correct that there are some that would love to have a gun grab just as you describe and are trying to get one going through changes in state and local law that would allow just that. It remains to be seen whether such laws would prove to be Constitutional. The majority of Americas  are just not that stupid and I see zero chance of that happening anywhere near where I live. 
_"I could teach you a thing or two, doc." _
Don't try to teach an old dog to suck eggs, son. I have the highest respect for Combat Infantry (right alongside Combat Medics of course) but I was probably walking the walk about the time you were born.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 10, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


> _"I have nothing to learn from the likes of you_.
> Really? I am constantly being amazed at just how little most loud mouth know-it-alls actually do know."
> _PTSD has no diagnostic tool, am I correct?_
> No.
> ...



I just walked a longer and harder walk.
You claim to respect combat infanteers yet a paragraph or two you insult them?
Concurrent to my service as a professional combat infanteer I also studied and qualified as a Registered Mental Nurse.
I worked on Bank( per diem ) at a secure forensic psychiatric unit in the British NHS.
For schizophrenia the Ericsson tool is preferred for assisting in diagnostics.
Which diagnostic tool is used to diagnose PTSD?
What are the symptoms of PTSD, can it ever be diagnosed organically?

You are full of shit.
You were never a medic, never served.
You are probably an obese 50 year old who still lives in his parents home and insists the paperboy calls him Doctor.
I'm no gambling man.
I would put money on that though !!


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 10, 2013)

Camp said:


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List the levels of PTSD and the differing symptoms then?


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 10, 2013)

Camp said:


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List the levels of PTSD and the differing symptoms then?
Show me where I said it meant crazy?
Don't respond unless you can do so honestly, dickwad.


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## Camp (Oct 10, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


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List:
Normal stress response
Acute stress disorder
Unclimpicated PTSD
Comorbid PTSD
Complex PTSD

Do your own research on each of the five recognized levels. You now have the proper names for a search. 

You said, "All vererans are crazy afterall." You ended that sentence with a period, not a question mark.

Is this an honest enough answer for you sir?


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## Sunshine (Oct 10, 2013)

Connery said:


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Well, there is a stereotype being perpetuated on this thread that veterans with PTSD are dangerous to others  and should not own guns. That simply is not true.   In my 25 years working in psychiatry I have never had a patient with PTSD who shot themselves or anyone else.


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## whitehall (Oct 10, 2013)

PSTD isn't even a medical condition. There are no guidelines and the Soldier who claims it doesn't even have to relate an incident or specific experience to collect a fat pension check. All he has to be is a whiner and a pretty good actor willing to sacrifice his pride for a couple of bucks.


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## Sunshine (Oct 10, 2013)

whitehall said:


> PSTD isn't even a medical condition. There are no guidelines and the Soldier who claims it doesn't even have to relate an incident or specific experience to collect a fat pension check. All he has to be is a whiner and a pretty good actor willing to sacrifice his pride for a couple of bucks.



Yes PTSD IS a medical condition.  It is diagnosed using the diagnostic criteria in the DSM IV TR.  You are disgusting.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 10, 2013)

Camp said:


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Looks like bullshit to me.
Who has defined these 'levels' what diagnostic tools are used?
Do you even understand what a diagnostic tool is?
The all veterans are crazy remark was sarcasm, it is essentially what gun grabbers claim.
The intent was clear exept to the most severely retarded.

I see where you align yourself!!
I'm a veteran, 16 years.
You fucking retard!!


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## Camp (Oct 10, 2013)

whitehall said:


> PSTD isn't even a medical condition. There are no guidelines and the Soldier who claims it doesn't even have to relate an incident or specific experience to collect a fat pension check. All he has to be is a whiner and a pretty good actor willing to sacrifice his pride for a couple of bucks.



Some dead soldiers came back this week. Shouldn't you be preparing with the rest of the Westboro turds for a road trip. If you aren't already a member, maybe you should meet up with them. They would love you. Sounds like you will fit right in.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 10, 2013)

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Camp said:


> whitehall said:
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Are they the ones you liberals are denying death benefits to?

No one had attacked vets here.
Just those who jump to pin labels on vets without careful diagnosis.
Are you too fucking retarded to spot that , shit stain?


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## whitehall (Oct 10, 2013)

Camp said:


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> ...




When libs are too ignorant to argue about an issue they resort to crazy accusations.


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## whitehall (Oct 10, 2013)

The criteria for a Purple Heart award is pretty specific. It has to be a wound inflicted by the enemy in a combat situation. There is no pension awarded for a Medal of Honor or a Silver or Bronze Star or Purple Heart award unless the recipient is permanently physically disabled. What are the conditions for a PTSD pension? It doesn't even have to involve combat. A little whining and a good act and you get more than the guy with the Silver Star.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 10, 2013)

PTSD pensions ?
Shit, I wish they had them when I retired, due to physical injury caused by enemy action!!

More money for the divorce courts to hand over to my ex wife!!
( yup, she got the pension, all of it).


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## whitehall (Oct 10, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> PTSD pensions ?
> Shit, I wish they had them when I retired, due to physical injury caused by enemy action!!
> 
> More money for the divorce courts to hand over to my ex wife!!
> ( yup, she got the pension, all of it).



Actually we are talking about pensions rather than treatment. If you want to swallow your pride for a couple of free sleeping pills or some other psychotropic junk it's your own business between you and your VA doctor as long as you don't drive under the influence of it or sell it. When you are so mentally disabled that you are able to collect a pension from the government it becomes a matter for the people who pay the pensions to determine or at least discuss whether the pension is legitimate.


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 10, 2013)

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The problem is that you have no faintest clue what you are talking about. There are no pensions awarded for PTSD. PTSD can be a disabling service connected condition that is handled the same as other disabling service connected injuries with compensation being awarded. 
And a person most certainly *does* have to prove that his claim is genuine just in order to _begin_ the process that can literally take years.


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## whitehall (Oct 10, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


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We can split hairs if you want to but personally I think it is offensive to real Veterans to put PSTD in the same category as Purple Heart combat disabilities. Apparently you don't even have to relate an incident or submit evidence of injury to justify a PSTD claim. All you need is a good act and a motivated staff.


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 10, 2013)

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Hey, great! I'll be proud to take your money!
How much are ready to lose? 10K? 20K? your call.
For the record I will prove that I am as pictured (except older) and described in the bio. here:  Harold E. Keim: Remember
And I'm willing to make a 5K side bet that you were never awarded a CIB.
When you are ready we find a mutually acceptable judge in Reno or elsewhere where such bets are legal/

Just for grins and giggles this is a link to my old unit's website:

http://www.angelfire.com/ny/binhphouc/


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## Trajan (Oct 10, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


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in the old days, yea, shell shock, by 1942,43 combat fatigue with the then used clinical term Nuerasthenia- A psychological disorder characterized by chronic fatigue and weakness, loss of memory, and generalized aches and pains, formerly thought to result from exhaustion of the nervous system. 

That morphed to. But combat fatigue was the term du jour....


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## whitehall (Oct 10, 2013)

Apparently Navy Yard shooter Aaron Alexis was being treated for PSTD. The blog "Medical Daily" claimed that former Sailor Aron Alexis was suffering from PSTD when he murdered 12 people and injured others at a shooting rampage at the D.C. Navy yard.  PSTD evangelist and former Soldier Gene Silvestri claimed "it's a wake up call for those struggling with PSTD". The problem is that Alexis claims of suffering mental illness as a result of 9-11 were found to be untrue. Alexis was a garden variety paranoid schizophrenic.


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## Trajan (Oct 10, 2013)

clearly we have become more aware and it is less a 'burden' for public discourse...or, some folks  think, we just aren't 'as tough' now or have lost the ability to deal with it without outside assistance......

Iwo Jima had approx. 2,600 'battle' fatigue ( another term) casualties....astounding reports for Okinawa list between 20,00 and 26,000 combat fatigue cases ( depending on the sources).  

Not all resulted in long term damage or being removed completely from the service etc. in the European theatre due ot the constant engagement on a constant front, with no let up in action on several fronts doctors would start with what they called "blue 88's", a high dose of nembutal that was intended to put the soldier out for 24 hours.  Some soldiers after a few eeks , good food plenty of sleep went back to the front, some were transferred to sppt. units etc. and some went all the way home. 

Studies much later by the wars end estimated that after approx. 90 days on the front, troops would wear out,  begin to display the onset of uncontrollable tremors/twitches, excitability, loss of focus etc....after 200 days, they would exhibit severe nuerasthenia, that term I used above, in short,  they were spent.....it would though generally take a very aware commander or a real 'event' , crying, extreme physical/mental exhaustion for a soldier to be sent to he rear as a combat fatigue case, by late 44, we were under a severe manpower shortage, soldiers never intended for or trained as infantryman were turned into infantry etc.....that ran up the numbers to.


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## whitehall (Oct 10, 2013)

Fake claims are a dime a dozen when you are dealing with motivated government workers masquerading as mental health specialists. Everybody in the mental profession trusted that Aaron Alexis was suffering from PTSD when he was in fact schizophrenic and so clinically ill that he killed 12 people. Where were the PTSD experts after he committed that terrible crime?


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 10, 2013)

whitehall said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > whitehall said:
> ...



And as I said before I find your slander of disabled vets highly offensive and shameful._

"Apparently you don't even have to relate an incident or submit evidence of injury to justify a PSTD claim."  _

I have already told you this is untrue. I'm beginning to think that you are so determined to slander people that you are spouting bullshit lies just to be an asshole. If so it's working.


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## whitehall (Oct 10, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > 9thIDdoc said:
> ...



I have the utmost respect for disabled Vets. I draw the line when pseudo-professionals try to lump fakers with Purple Hearts.


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 10, 2013)

whitehall said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > whitehall said:
> ...



You lie. There is nothing respectful about calling people "fakers".


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## whitehall (Oct 10, 2013)

Purple Heart Veterans are the best of the best. It is insulting when (left wing activist) people try to compare combat Veterans to mentally ill (street?) people in order to try to get pensions for nut case drug addicts.


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## Camp (Oct 10, 2013)

whitehall said:


> Purple Heart Veterans are the best of the best. It is insulting when (left wing activist) people try to compare combat Veterans to mentally ill (street?) people in order to try to get pensions for nut case drug addicts.



You just keep sinking lower and lower and showing how clueless you are.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 10, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > 9thIDdoc said:
> ...



Few fake photos won't do it.
You are lying 
CIB?
Some bullshit give away medal?
I got a us medal for shooting straight!!

I was in a true infantry unit of the type unknown to American troops since 1918.
You read a couple of books , that's all.
Is your name Walter by any chance?
Surname Mitty?
Big hero!!


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## whitehall (Oct 10, 2013)

Lets lay our cards on the table shall we lefties. It's no secret that homeless activists and radical left wing activists have been using fake Veterans and alcoholic and drug addicted real Veternas to promote some sort of social vendetta against the war. Do PTSD activists get paid by the head? Don't feel bad, better people than you were fooled by stories from alleged Vets. Burkett's book "Stolen Valor" illustrates accounts of News sources interviewing a wild haired lost soul at the Vietnam Wall who would cry and carry on for the cameras. It turned out, much to the embarrassment of the media, that the guy never served in the Military but he looked so good. Awarding drug addicts and degenerate alcoholics a pension for PSTD might be a short cut to their drug addicted deaths rather than helping them. It's a shame that the PSTD activists ignore real heroes who were awarded a Purple Heart in favor of stories from the homeless.


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 10, 2013)

_CIB?
Some bullshit give away medal?
I got a us medal for shooting straight!!_

Right. You claim to have been Combat Infantry but you don't know what a Combat Infantryman's Badge is. You have obviously never been in the US Army. You haven't forgotten our bets have you? Need odds? 3-to-1?


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 10, 2013)

whitehall said:


> Lets lay our cards on the table shall we lefties. It's no secret that homeless activists and radical left wing activists have been using fake Veterans and alcoholic and drug addicted real Veternas to promote some sort of social vendetta against the war. Do PTSD activists get paid by the head? Don't feel bad, better people than you were fooled by stories from alleged Vets. Burkett's book "Stolen Valor" illustrates accounts of News sources interviewing a wild haired lost soul at the Vietnam Wall who would cry and carry on for the cameras. It turned out, much to the embarrassment of the media, that the guy never served in the Military but he looked so good. Awarding drug addicts and degenerate alcoholics a pension for PSTD might be a short cut to their drug addicted deaths rather than helping them. It's a shame that the PSTD activists ignore real heroes who were awarded a Purple Heart in favor of stories from the homeless.



Wait. Let me guess. That guy's name was Pauli! Right?
The truth is that a high percentage of people that receive the purple heart for wounds also suffer from, and may receive compensation for PTSD. In your eminent wisdom do you consider these people faker heroes? Hero fakers? Or what? Inquiring minds want to know.


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## MHunterB (Oct 10, 2013)

BDBoop said:


> Yes, I am an adult survivor with PTSD, which I'm sure plays a part in why my heart goes out to this soldier.
> 
> I went looking for soldier support groups - maybe be a pen pal. I don't know. Whatever. Anybody have any recommendations?



Charity Navigator Rating - AdoptAPlatoon Soldier Support Effort

Several organizations are listed here....

While there's an 'advisory' on adopt-a-platoon, I've been matched with several pen pals through them.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 11, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


> _CIB?
> Some bullshit give away medal?
> I got a us medal for shooting straight!!_
> 
> Right. You claim to have been Combat Infantry but you don't know what a Combat Infantryman's Badge is. You have obviously never been in the US Army. You haven't forgotten our bets have you? Need odds? 3-to-1?



I was British Army.
We don't get badges and medals for doing what we are paid to do.
We were soldiers not bit scouts.
I do have a us marksmanship medal.
Again, we got no such thing, we were expected to hit our targets!


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 11, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > _CIB?
> ...



British Army? Queen of England I might believe...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dm4ypxpvB8]JOHNNY HORTON- "THE BATTLE OF NEW ORLEANS" (W/LYRICS) - YouTube[/ame]


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## whitehall (Oct 11, 2013)

It's obvious that the doctorate dropouts that the government hires to diagnose PTSD wouldn't know a schitzo from a alcoholic so they take the word of the degenerate and call it PSTD and everyone is happy. Cite the incident that caused the alleged mental illness. If he received a Purple Heart he might have a case. If he wished he was in combat and hurt his brain drinking bad wine and reading dirty magazines kick him out the freaking door, Veteran or not.


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 11, 2013)

Incident? You slander thousands of honorable veterans including thousands who also received the PH (sometimes more than one) and you think anybody would be interested in your judgment of a single incident? You have definitely lost it. Seriously.


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## bodecea (Oct 11, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Labeling soldiers has a better effect than spitting on them.
> It's more of the same liberal hate.



What are you saying?   PTSD doesn't exist?


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## Connery (Oct 11, 2013)

whitehall said:


> It's obvious that the doctorate dropouts that the government hires to diagnose PTSD wouldn't know a schitzo from a alcoholic so they take the word of the degenerate and call it PSTD and everyone is happy. Cite the incident that caused the alleged mental illness. If he received a Purple Heart he might have a case. If he wished he was in combat and hurt his brain drinking bad wine and reading dirty magazines kick him out the freaking door, Veteran or not.



This is patently incorrect. I sit on an advisory board at a VA hospital in the department which deals with PTSD. The doctors and mental health practitioners are second to none and the psychiatric field relies heavily on the work and research conducted at this location.


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## Sunshine (Oct 11, 2013)

Connery said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > It's obvious that the doctorate dropouts that the government hires to diagnose PTSD wouldn't know a schitzo from a alcoholic so they take the word of the degenerate and call it PSTD and everyone is happy. Cite the incident that caused the alleged mental illness. If he received a Purple Heart he might have a case. If he wished he was in combat and hurt his brain drinking bad wine and reading dirty magazines kick him out the freaking door, Veteran or not.
> ...



There is something to be said for a system that doesn't have to make a profit.  I worked at the VA twice in my career with enough total years to have one more pension and my insurance.  Every year I worked there I got extensive training in my field.  When I worked community mental health keeping up was your own problem.  The VA  is a leading researcher for PTSD and schizophrenia.  It is a good place for schizophrenia research because the patients are mostly all voluntary, thereby removing that particular ethical barrier.  I crossed paths with some very notable people in the field.  One in particular Herbert Melzer probably did more for schizophrenics in America than any other person.  

The VA has its issues, lack of expertise is NOT one of them.  I always felt like the patients appreciated my efforts on their behalf.  Sure, there are drug seekers, garden variety nut cases, and more than a few pains in the ass.  But those people are everywhere.  If a veteran  with PTSD wants help he/she will find it in the VA.  Bullshit such as is posted on this thread only serves to prevent those who need help from getting it.  There is no reason why a person with PTSD can't own a gun and hunt the woods of KY just like anyone else.  I had many PTSD patients both in the VA and other places.  None of them ever harmed anyone else.  There is no reason they can't be responsible gun owners.  But they won't seek help if they think they will lose their Second Amendment rights.  If I felt better, I would start a little cash business working with them.  But my days of working that kind of schedule are over.


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## Trajan (Oct 11, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > 9thIDdoc said:
> ...



great site doc...hey, page 15 Bravo 2/47,  bottom row far right, that a Kit Carson?


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 11, 2013)

bodecea said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Labeling soldiers has a better effect than spitting on them.
> ...


I'm saying you're a retard.
Learn to read.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 11, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > 9thIDdoc said:
> ...



Mmmm feel the same way about the hundreds of British soldiers who died fighting Americas wars in Afghanistan and Iraq ?
100% commitment to the USA and you, scumbag , mock them.
You have class!!
Not .


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 11, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > 9thIDdoc said:
> ...


Nothing respectfully in abusing the memory of those who died for your country( British troops in Iraq and Afghanistan).
It's not their war!!!


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## Trajan (Oct 11, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



why don't you take a break, stop being an ass?


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 11, 2013)

Trajan said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



I'll go look and get back to you. Most (but maybe not all)  of our interpreters were Kit Carson scouts. We more often called them Tiger Scouts. We worked on the assumption that they all were in fact spies. The ARVNs got evidence that a few were and promptly shot them.


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## Trajan (Oct 11, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > 9thIDdoc said:
> ...




nice shot, ma deuce is the shit....


yup, the guy in that pic looks definitely native


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 11, 2013)

Trajan said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



Fuck off dick wad.

I note your hate for those British troops who died for America in Iraq and Afghanistan.

They don't have PTSD!!
Nor do their surviving comrades!!


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## Trajan (Oct 11, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



they may not,  but you're acting like you do...I never said squat about the brits asshat.


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 11, 2013)

Not sure I found the right page. (couldn't find any page numbers) but if so both of the 2 guys in the bottom right were obviously Vietnamese by name and sight. That was "B Co." in '69 and I was in "D" Co in '70. I can only repeat the probably I left above.
I mostly worked the aid station(s).


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 11, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > 9thIDdoc said:
> ...





Trajan said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Trajan said:
> ...



You posted a video abusing British troops.
Scumbag !!
Let me remind you.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=7972529


Scumbag.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 11, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


> Not sure I found the right page. (couldn't find any page numbers) but if so both of the 2 guys in the bottom right were obviously Vietnamese by name and sight. That was "B Co." in '69 and I was in "D" Co in '70. I can only repeat the probably I left above.
> I mostly worked the aid station(s).



Great guys !!
You were never amongst them.
Veterans are never as boastful as you!


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 11, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



No, asshole, I'm mocking *you*; not real British soldiers.
The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were British wars as much as American. Y'all have just let us do the lion's share of the work. Look it up and get someone to read it to you.
The British infantry that attacked us at New Orleans were touted as the best in the world.
They were just back from dealing with Napoleon. We kicked their ass. Badly. Mostly with militia.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 11, 2013)

Trajan said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Trajan said:
> ...



Blah fucking blah fuck face.
I have no such thing as PTSD.

Can you provide evidence that I do ?
Fuckwit?


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 11, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > 9thIDdoc said:
> ...


200 years ago.
The USA does the lions share because it's the USAs war.
The British did the right thing, you clearly do not appreciate it.
How was Afghanistan a British war?
What had Afghanistan ever done to Britain?
Or Iraq?
Americas wars .
The British deployed as many troops per capita as did the USA.
You scumbag hater.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 11, 2013)

This is Tom Wroe, son of Mick.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=y7BYUv3ABbjG4APZr4CYCQ&ved=0CEQQ9QEwDA
You say he wasn't doing his Lions Share?
It's Americas war, not the uks.

I knew Tom when he was 3 years old.
Had the honour of serving with his dad.
VFC33/76.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 11, 2013)

Not doing their lions share?

Huddersfield area soldiers killed in Afghanistan: Soldiers named by MoD - Huddersfield Examiner

These are lads from my regiment who died in YOUR war.
Not doing their share?
You ignorant bastard.

VFC33/76.

All of them lads from my home town.
All members of the DUKE OF WELLINGTONS REGT.

VFC33/76.


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 11, 2013)

Gosh! I thought those were U.N wars. Like Vietnam except England didn't bother with that one.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 11, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


> Gosh! I thought those were U.N wars. Like Vietnam except England didn't bother with that one.



Not UN.
No blue berets( caps to you).
Bosnia, Herzegovina and Croatia.
They were UN wars.
Not many us troops there.
None in fact!!
You say England?
Retard!!

Vietnam was a us action in support of a us ally that was not a signatory of the NATO charter.

Now , Argentina was not a signatory of the nato charter but the USA was.
When Argentina invaded British soil, did the NATO charter get misplaced?

When one is attacked all are attacked?
Ignore the kids dying in your wars.
Only serves to show you in your true colours.
Scumbag.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 11, 2013)

UN wars would also include the Greek civil war, Cyprus, the leb.

Not many Americans there........  

Rwanda?
Sierra Leone?

Ah well , hater!

Most real, honorable American veterans would be disgusted by your hatred of Americas most loyal ally.


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 11, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> UN wars would also include the Greek civil war, Cyprus, the leb.
> 
> Not many Americans there........
> 
> ...



And most real British veterans would be disgusted by the slander, name calling, and disrespect shown for myself and my fellow veterans by the person(s) known here as "Pauli". I have no-nor have I expressed any-hatred for British soldiers, veterans, or people in general. "Pauli" is, has been, and shall remain the target of any scorn I express, and rightfully so. If you don't want a fight-don't start one. If you can't stand the heat stay out of the freakin kitchen.


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 12, 2013)

I'm going to try and be as tactful as possible here as I see some people that really don't have a clue voicing uneducated opinions.

1. Vietnam was a SEATO war not an American War, though we did the majority of the fighting.  Other SEATO members in the war, Thailand, Australia, Taiwan, New Zealand, The Philippenes, and South Korea.

2.  I keep seeing that there is no "diagnostic tool" for PTSD.  Well that's what the DSM is, a diagnostic tool, and you must meet a certain amount of "diagnostic criteria" for receiving a diagnosis of PTSD.  I do agree that the new diagnostic criteria is much less stringent and will lead to more diagnosis's when the person really doesn't have it and I hate that it is no longer, "out of the realm of normal trauma" as it used to be.  It will open a flood gate of fakes, but that does not mean that it isn't a real mental disorder.  I know, I've had it for 44 years, and also treated it for 30 before retiring.  Because someone fakes a back injury doesn't mean that back injuries aren't real.

3.  I also have a Purple Heart and have been a Life Member of the Military Order of the Purple Heart for over 26 years.  I don't know one of the members of my chapter that DON'T have PTSD and we have members from WWII to the present day Iraqi and Afghan Wars.  One of my brothers is also a former POW in Vietnam and he would love to talk with the member here that mentions something derogatory about Purple Hearts and PTSD.  I would not suggest though that you give your uneducated opinion in person to him.  In a survey done by the Order, the majority of the Order would not have a problem with awarding the Purple Heart for PTSD.  Of course, this was under the old criteria and even I would not support this as I did before.  When you don't have to prove your trauma, that immediately rules out giving this award for it as far as I'm concerned and don't believe the Order would now support it.

4.  I know Doc Hal personally.  I wouldn't take him up on his bet, but it's your money, do what you want. Actually please take him up on the bet and I'd like to be there when you have to pay off.  He is also one of the most honorable men I know but I can't blame him for his anger after what I've read on this site.

5. One of my more recent patients before I retired was the recipient of the Navy Cross for his heroism in Falluja.  He would also take exception as would two other friends of mine who are MOH recipients, that PTSD is fake.  Oh, just let me add Audie Murphy to that list who admitted he had suffered from it until the day he was killed in a plane crash.  He worked very hard to get the VA to start treating it as a combat related injury as would any other.  He was also in favor of the award of the Purple Heart for it and he had more than his share of those.  Again, I doubt under todays criteria.

Anybody is entitled to their opinion, but opinions should be based on fact, not emotion or out of ignorance.  So, let's hear the vitriol.  I'm a wannabe, liar, sitting in the basement of my parents house, and all the other crap I've seen on this site.  No problem.  I just tried to present some facts based on fact and personal experience.  Do with it what you want.


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 12, 2013)

whitehall said:


> The criteria for a Purple Heart award is pretty specific. It has to be a wound inflicted by the enemy in a combat situation. There is no pension awarded for a Medal of Honor or a Silver or Bronze Star or Purple Heart award unless the recipient is permanently physically disabled. What are the conditions for a PTSD pension? It doesn't even have to involve combat. A little whining and a good act and you get more than the guy with the Silver Star.



Actually there is a Pension for both MOH recipients and former POW's.  Getting VA Service Connected Disability is different then "pension".  I am afraid though, you are confusing the 1980 to 2012 diagnostic criteria for PTSD with the new one and are being pretty offensive about it.  I agree that the DSM 1V has completely botched the PTSD diagnosis but there will still be Combat Vets that have it and those that don't.  I don't have the answer as to how you weed out the non-hackers who are faking it and those that really have it when you no longer have to "prove" the beyond the realm of normal trauma event.  It also makes me mad they have changed the "beyond the realm....." criteria.  They have made a mockery of a real Disorder.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 12, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > UN wars would also include the Greek civil war, Cyprus, the leb.
> ...


Being a veteran makes it ok for you to say stupid stuff?
You are a retard.

You ragged on the UK for its choice to not invade Vietnam.
You ragged on the UK for not doing enough in Afghanistan or Iraq.

Afghanistan is Americas war.
Britain is assisting.
Your response.
No slander against anyone but you.
This is me responding to you.
You are not a veteran.
I have never met a combat veteran who stomps around boasting about what a great hero he is.
You had a job.
You did it.
End of.
Just like me and millions of others.
Why are you special?
Self centered prick.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 12, 2013)

1AirCav69 said:


> I'm going to try and be as tactful as possible here as I see some people that really don't have a clue voicing uneducated opinions.
> 
> 1. Vietnam was a SEATO war not an American War, though we did the majority of the fighting.  Other SEATO members in the war, Thailand, Australia, Taiwan, New Zealand, The Philippenes, and South Korea.
> 
> ...



He needs to make the bet worthwhile.

You are another illiterate , just like him who applies an opinion to me that I have not voiced. You fucking retarded fuck.

I've never met a combat veteran who stomps around boasting about what a great hero he is.
The people who do that, in my experience are lying about their service.


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 12, 2013)

_He needs to make the bet worthwhile."_

Hey, no problem (with great pleasure in fact).
 Is $30K or $40K a little more worthwhile?


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 12, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> 1AirCav69 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to try and be as tactful as possible here as I see some people that really don't have a clue voicing uneducated opinions.
> ...



I rest my case.  Doc, I wouldn't waste my time with these teenage wannabes/neverbeens. That boy is one sick fuck.  My Scottish grandfather used to call them "Limey Poofs".  Now I know why.


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 12, 2013)

The sad thing is that their ignorant bullshit stops people from getting help they need and deserve. They do a great job for the jihad.


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## Trajan (Oct 12, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


> Not sure I found the right page. (couldn't find any page numbers) but if so both of the 2 guys in the bottom right were obviously Vietnamese by name and sight. That was "B Co." in '69 and I was in "D" Co in '70. I can only repeat the probably I left above.
> I mostly worked the aid station(s).



yea that was it thx for checking

I forget what the designation that was used for the modified 113 we used for TOCs or aid stations...


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## bOOger (Oct 12, 2013)

9thIDdoc
Well I finally made it over here to read the crap Pauli is typing ( here in the USA, names that end in "i" are usually female). Pauli Girl..... Holy $hit he named after a beer. Anyway
The good Doc is not a Fat 50 year old, he's the real thing. We both served in Vietnam. Attended numerous Reunions (Vietnam type) together. Tipping many a beer. Even a St. Pauli Girl or 2. With that being said Ms. Pauli, I gotta go
Back in the USA bOOger


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 12, 2013)

Thanks bOOger. Don't worry, I won't say a word about your *XXXXXXXXXX*.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 12, 2013)

1AirCav69 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > 1AirCav69 said:
> ...



Even stupider than before, fucking retard.
Limey, a term used to describe the British used by Americans based on the Rotal Navys use of limes in the 19th century as a dietary supplement to prevent scurvy in sailors.
Today it is a term used only by Americans to describe the English.
Not a term used in Scotland.
You are lying, you have no Scottish grandmother.
Lying, retarded fuckwit.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 12, 2013)

bOOger said:


> 9thIDdoc
> Well I finally made it over here to read the crap Pauli is typing ( here in the USA, names that end in "i" are usually female). Pauli Girl..... Holy $hit he named after a beer. Anyway
> The good Doc is not a Fat 50 year old, he's the real thing. We both served in Vietnam. Attended numerous Reunions (Vietnam type) together. Tipping many a beer. Even a St. Pauli Girl or 2. With that being said Ms. Pauli, I gotta go
> Back in the USA bOOger



Bullshit.
It's Pauli.
The term in Gaelic translates to small Paul.
In Irish Gaelic it would be Pauline.
But we are talking British Gaelic here.
The 007 is my last three(zap number) from my regimental number, 25080007.
But being stupid and jumping to conclusions is usually the idiom of the retard.

See you later retards !!


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 12, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


> _He needs to make the bet worthwhile."_
> 
> Hey, no problem (with great pleasure in fact).
> Is $30K or $40K a little more worthwhile?



Wouldn't get out of bed for it.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 12, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


> The sad thing is that their ignorant bullshit stops people from getting help they need and deserve. They do a great job for the jihad.



What bullshit is that exactly?
Fucking retard.
You might get some help with your reading skills or comprehension.

Retard.


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## bOOger (Oct 12, 2013)

Pauli girl
.. The Gaelic version means "small Paul".... How appropriate..... Hell for a second there I thought you were gonna tell me the 007 meant you were James Bond. At this point you're liable to tell us anything.
Y'all take care now ya hear . That's southern USA English for, have a good day
Diplomatic bOOger


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## bOOger (Oct 12, 2013)

Doc Hal
Thanks for turning me on to Pauline or Small Paul or whatever he goes by....... 
This goober is a real joke
Happy happy happy bOOger


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 13, 2013)

I think she's just experiencing her first period.  I love it, now she's 007.  Got to wear hip waders around this little girl.  British Gaelic.  What a joke.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 13, 2013)

bOOger said:


> Doc Hal
> Thanks for turning me on to Pauline or Small Paul or whatever he goes by.......
> This goober is a real joke
> Happy happy happy bOOger



Better than a pretend hero of the wars!!
Like your boastful chickenshit pal doc.


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## Pauli007001 (Oct 13, 2013)

1AirCav69 said:


> I think she's just experiencing her first period.  I love it, now she's 007.  Got to wear hip waders around this little girl.  British Gaelic.  What a joke.



007 my last 3.
25080007.
You use zap numbers in the us Army don't you ?

Big hero?

You are a fucking retard.

Where is Scotland retard?

Would it be Britain perhaps?

How about the language indigenous to Scotland, retard ?

Gaelic!!!

Not a joke, retard, just a fact.
Like your retardation.

Small Paul was the name I was known as since birth.
A twin, smaller of the two, the survivor.
At 2.2lbs birthweight it was considered to be almost a miracle that I survived.
Hence I was Pauli to my Scottish family and pauleen to my Irish family.

Scottish, like your grannie was not!!
Lying retarded fuck .


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## mustang66 (Oct 13, 2013)

You'd be suprised at how many claiming PTSD spent the war riding a desk. In modern combat maybe 10 percent actually get shot at. A lot of this is just a play for attention and money. I know out of all the Vietnam Vets I have known none fit the stereotypical bum in camouflage pissing and moaning about the VA description.


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 13, 2013)

mustang66 said:


> You'd be suprised at how many claiming PTSD spent the war riding a desk. In modern combat maybe 10 percent actually get shot at. A lot of this is just a play for attention and money. I know out of all the Vietnam Vets I have known none fit the stereotypical bum in camouflage pissing and moaning about the VA description.



And you are infallible at telling the sheep from the goats (down bOOger! down!)...because...?


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 13, 2013)

Mustang66.  Couldn't agree more in some of what you say.  All the years in the Vet Center program taught me to SF 180 all my patients.  The liars were dropped from my treatment be it individual or group.  Also those "stereotypical" Vietnam Vets are mostly either not veterans at all or never saw a day in Vietnam.  It has also been my experience that even with PTSD Vietnam Veterans have held jobs, careers, raised families, and been able to function quite well considering.  At one time the process for getting a PTSD claim from the VA was so unfair and stringent that it was a continual fight to get an honest veteran suffering from PTSD help.  I'd be careful though to make the blanket statement you are making.  Ask a cook at Con Tien if he ever saw combat, or a clerk at Khe Sanh.  There are thousands of examples like this.  I was always an advocate of the Army adopting a Combat Action Ribbon.  They have now developed the Combat Action Badge and that should be able to help shake out the liars.


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## Sunshine (Oct 13, 2013)

mustang66 said:


> You'd be suprised at how many claiming PTSD spent the war riding a desk. In modern combat maybe 10 percent actually get shot at. A lot of this is just a play for attention and money. I know out of all the Vietnam Vets I have known none fit the stereotypical bum in camouflage pissing and moaning about the VA description.



There are people with PTSD who were not in combat.  The female nurse who was stationed in a combat zone is considered a combat veteran.  And seeing boys mangled every day is certainly criteria for her getting PTSD, just like our nurses and EMTs on the home front get PTSD along with burnout..  One does not have to be 'shot at' to get PTSD.  Even therapists who work with PTSD patients get secondary PTSD just from listening to the horrors.  You are a liar.


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## Camp (Oct 13, 2013)

Sunshine said:


> mustang66 said:
> 
> 
> > You'd be suprised at how many claiming PTSD spent the war riding a desk. In modern combat maybe 10 percent actually get shot at. A lot of this is just a play for attention and money. I know out of all the Vietnam Vets I have known none fit the stereotypical bum in camouflage pissing and moaning about the VA description.
> ...



Worst case I ever saw was a soldier who never saw combat. He was in incountry mortuary services. He worked in the morque.


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 13, 2013)

Camp said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> > mustang66 said:
> ...



Both of you are absolutely correct.  One of my worst patients was also mortuary services.  Try that job for 12 months.  Also nurses and doctors for sure.


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## mustang66 (Oct 13, 2013)

Stolen Valor: How the Vietnam Generation Was Robbed of Its Heroes and Its ... - B. Bernard Gary Burkett - Google Books

Very good read on the subject.


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## bOOger (Oct 13, 2013)

Mustang 66
We have vets that never left the US that are now getting VA beni's for PTSD. I know of one who was involved in a fight in the New Orleans area while on leave and he was other than honorably discharged from the military, before he completed his 4 years. He filed for PTSD benefits as a direct result of the fight, I'm guessing he yelled loud enough and got it.


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## Camp (Oct 13, 2013)

I can remember the bullcrap guys had to go through to even be considered for PTSD. It was ridiculous when dealing with guys who served in units like the 173rd in 66' or 67'. They had to actually prove they were in combat and some specific event that could have caused their PTSD. One guy used a TIME Magazine artiicle that actually had his picture in it as part of his documentation. It was a major coupe when someone figured out how to get hands on radio logs. For some reason those hadn't been buried in the bowels of the buraeucracy. So maybe the pendulum has swung in the other direction. IMO it's better to have a few get over and recieve what they don't deserve than to have those that deserve not to be able to get what they truely need and deserve.


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## mustang66 (Oct 13, 2013)

bOOger said:


> Mustang 66
> We have vets that never left the US that are now getting VA beni's for PTSD. I know of one who was involved in a fight in the New Orleans area while on leave and he was other than honorably discharged from the military, before he completed his 4 years. He filed for PTSD benefits as a direct result of the fight, I'm guessing he yelled loud enough and got it.


I know! My Uncle recently passed away and lived off disability his entire adult life, he was 92. Well he couldn't work because of PTSD from WWII. THE GUY WAS A FUCKIN COOK!!!! He told my Aunt he killed so many people and he was fucked up from it.....hahahaha!!! Did he kill them with his cooking? The VA has become another sacred cow.....it's RIDICULOUS!!!! When I did my undistinguished four years in the Army I did it and got out. I never missed a paycheck and had my three hots and a cot. Nobody owes me a goddamn thing!! A few years wearing a uniform does not mean the world owes you a living!!!
Of course if you say this you are "un american" and "unpatriotic". Makes me want to vomit!!!


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 13, 2013)

mustang66 said:


> bOOger said:
> 
> 
> > Mustang 66
> ...



So am I to understand that Audie Murphy thought the world owed him a living?  I guess those idiots that come back from Iraq/Afghan with no legs, arms, TBI, and get disability feel the world owes them a living?  Do you honestly believe that VA Comp is a "living"?  I am quite sure your 4 years were undistinguished and how nice to get 3 hots and a cot.  Must have been nice.  No wonder you have so much hate for those that served, didn't get 3 hots and a cot, and got messed up in the process.  Not sure how you shave your face every day with that kind of attitude.  Love to see how you'd have felt had you actually had to live with no hots and no cot.  Real friggin' hero.  Your uncle story doesn't wash either.  They didn't even have PTSD claims during WWII.  You sound just a bit jealous of combat vets to me.  Probably an American Legion member.


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 13, 2013)

Camp said:


> I can remember the bullcrap guys had to go through to even be considered for PTSD. It was ridiculous when dealing with guys who served in units like the 173rd in 66' or 67'. They had to actually prove they were in combat and some specific event that could have caused their PTSD. One guy used a TIME Magazine artiicle that actually had his picture in it as part of his documentation. It was a major coupe when someone figured out how to get hands on radio logs. For some reason those hadn't been buried in the bowels of the buraeucracy. So maybe the pendulum has swung in the other direction. IMO it's better to have a few get over and recieve what they don't deserve than to have those that deserve not to be able to get what they truely need and deserve.



Camp, you're correct in both.  I am not pleased that the pendulum swung completely the other way.  The middle would have been just great but I agree, rather a few wannabee's than screwing everyone.


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 13, 2013)

Tom-

You might find the thread on Gen. Giap's death in the "current events" section interesting.


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 13, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


> Tom-
> 
> You might find the thread on Gen. Giap's death in the "current events" section interesting.



Not if it's full of ignorant dorks like this thread.


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## regent (Oct 13, 2013)

Can one imagine the hue and cry if the VA was not generous with its benefits? I can see the  headline now, Soldiers Denied benefits By ... political party or president.


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## mustang66 (Oct 13, 2013)

1AirCav69 said:


> mustang66 said:
> 
> 
> > bOOger said:
> ...


First of all fuck you and the horse you rode in on. Actually at the time of my Uncles service I believe it was called Battle Fatigue. Whatever the term he was a freeloader. Now when did I say a Goddamned thing about somebody without arms and legs oh that's right I didn't! "Hate for those that served".....hahahahaha!!!!! If you're a fuckin bum I do hate you. "How nice to get 3 hots and a cot".....let me guess....in "the old army" they didn't even feed you Never been jealous and glad I was spared and I bet you were spared also. Probably a bum living off a disability check he lied like hell to get. Or you have drinking and drug problems you want to blame on everybody but you.
See this emotional, bullshit reaction is what I'm talking about. Put "veteran" on it and it is untouchable. The VA should be no more untouchable than anything else.


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 13, 2013)

mustang66 said:


> 1AirCav69 said:
> 
> 
> > mustang66 said:
> ...



You see what I'm talking about.  The emotional reaction is all yours...REMF.  I know who I am and I've already guessed, thanks to you, who you are.  It's why I put the references earlier to cooks at Khe Sahn and Con Thien.  Why...because of punks like you who "served".  Big fucking deal...you served, in some cushy job getting 3 hots and a cot.  Look punk, I wouldn't wipe my ass with someone like you normally but I owe you this.  You're the type that would deny benefits to disabled vets cause you never had your ass in the grass. Punks like you work in the VA Regional Offices denying veteran benefits all the time then claiming..."well I served too...I wouldn't do that".  You think that only a blood wound matters.  Listen to me you REMF faggot, you don't know shit about anything or anybody that ever served in a war zone.  You meat out you opinions like you really know something and you don't.  You are an ignorant twit who because he spent time in "the service" knows what it's like to really be in the service.  You know nothing you ignorant little bitch.  I've dealt with your ilk for years and beat your asses repeatedly when I worked for the VA.  I'm sure it got to you when I mentioned you were in the Legion because you are.  That's where all the REMFS hang with their REMF buddies.  You show up at parades and act like you were there and the civvies don't know the difference.  Then you sit and judge men that were actually in combat.  I love that you bitch twat.  You couldn't lick the boot of a real combat soldier.  I bet you were Navy or Air Force for sure.  Suck on this one punk and show up at a Vietnam Vets reunion some day and get up before everyone and tell them your story and what you think of PTSD.  Naw, you only have balls sitting behind a computer then quoting books you read like that really gives you some insight.  Your uncle has more class in his dead asshole than you do in your whole body.  You are obviously jealous that man at least served in a war zone.  You can't even join the fucking VFW.  Eat shit and die, REMF.


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 13, 2013)

Don't hold back, Tom. Tell us how you really feel.


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## mustang66 (Oct 13, 2013)

1AirCav69 said:


> mustang66 said:
> 
> 
> > 1AirCav69 said:
> ...


Legion!!! Hell I refuse the term "veteran" as I believe it should be reserved for people who dodged bullets ya dumb fuck! My Uncle Marion was infantry in the Philippines during WWII and he never asked for a fuckin thing. Cousin Hubert left his left leg in Korea and all he got was a post office job. I respect the memory of both of them. All the Vietnam Vets I have known led pretty normal lives with the exception of one guy who was alcoholic as all hell and would admit he drank like a fuckin fish prior to the war. He was honest and I'd follow that man anywhere God rest his soul. You take all your insults and ram them up your ass. First Cav my ass..... Come on man you were a tamms clerk or a mechanic weren't you not that there is anything wrong with that but why lie about it?


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## bOOger (Oct 13, 2013)

Mustang 66
Well shit, right when I thought I was done with this site, I hav'ta log in and tell you, like I told lil Pauli girl, "your wrong", but then again, it seems like a lot of people are wrong here.....My good buddy 1st Cav is who he says he is, including being a member of the M.O.P.H. 
We don't care what you did in the military. We know one thing, you served, and that's all that matters. Y'all should come over to our site, all the members are military and most are Vietnam Vets. We defend each other, ( that's why 1st Cav and I are here ) and if you can't play nice or attempt to belittle a member, we' ll carve you a new asshole.... Asshole
Chief Proctologist bOOger


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 13, 2013)

Three hots and a cot?
Only for REMFs


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 14, 2013)

I guess you'd have to be a "tams clerk" to know what that means.  I do know what a mechanic is though.  Doc, Bob, it happens every time.  Try to bring a little knowledge to the ignorant and they attack because all their little preconceived notions get proven wrong.  Doc, love that picture of you in your "cot" with your "hot".  Looks familiar. Bob, please don't invite this crap to our site.  They just don't pack the gear.  4 years...yep I think even more Air Force.  4 tough tours in Gulfport.  Probably don't even qualify to be in the Legion and the more I think of it, I'd also be embarrassed to use the term veteran if I was this pogue. Well, think I'll go back to my government tit sucking and laughing at people who have to work.


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## editec (Oct 14, 2013)

I worked for 18 months  in a closed unit psychiatric ward with rotating shifts every two weeks.

I think I had serious PTSD not only from changing rotations every two weeks (seriously... was the NAV crazy or what?) but also from having to deal with seriously dangerously mentally distirbed patients every day.

Never Dx'ed but in retrospect I exibited many of the symptoms of PTSD for years after I got out of uniform.  

I went in to get it checked out at the VA but back in those days (ten year ago or so) ONLY combat soldiers were considered eligible for that DX.


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## Sunshine (Oct 14, 2013)

editec said:


> I worked for 18 months  in a closed unit psychiatric ward with rotating shifts every two weeks.
> 
> I think I had serious PTSD not only from changing rotations every two weeks (seriously... was the NAV crazy or what?) but also from having to deal with seriously dangerously mentally distirbed patients every day.
> 
> ...



That is not true.  I diagnosed many non combat soldiers with PTSD.  I had many patients who had other issues outside the military that traumatized them, car accidents, family suicide and the patient finding the person who suicide, violent loss of a family member.  I treated them all.  They were not eligible for money because it wasn't service connected, but I treated them.  There is no particular 'eligible' diagnosis at the VA, but the VA generally only pays for service related conditions.  If the person has other insurance, or is private pay for those things, they can be treated for them.


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## Sunshine (Oct 14, 2013)

regent said:


> Can one imagine the hue and cry if the VA was not generous with its benefits? I can see the  headline now, Soldiers Denied benefits By ... political party or president.



Where have you been?  Obama has already tried.


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## 1CAVCCO15MED (Oct 14, 2013)

Wow!  Nothing new here.  Anonymous Fake Tough Guys blathering anything to keep a battle going so they can have their safe, warm self righteousness.  Real vets doing their best to explain the truth which the Anonymous Fake Tough Guys then ignore and spout out profanity and obscenity because they think it is more powerful than the truth.  We were doing this a dozen years ago on other sites and to my knowledge, never convinced a single one about anything.  That is because they are not really arguing, they are living vicariously an Anonymous Fake Tough Guy life they could never do face to face.


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## bOOger (Oct 14, 2013)

editec
you're joking about having PTSD for shift changes in a nut ward?

1CAVCCO15MED
Fred can you believe the crap these guys are posting!!! For the rest of you guys, thats 9thIDDOC enjoying his 3 hots and a cot in the first pic   
Honest Abe bOOger


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## BDBoop (Oct 14, 2013)

1CAVCCO15MED said:


> Wow!  Nothing new here.  Anonymous Fake Tough Guys blathering anything to keep a battle going so they can have their safe, warm self righteousness.  Real vets doing their best to explain the truth which the Anonymous Fake Tough Guys then ignore and spout out profanity and obscenity because they think it is more powerful than the truth.  We were doing this a dozen years ago on other sites and to my knowledge, never convinced a single one about anything.  That is because they are not really arguing, they are living vicariously an Anonymous Fake Tough Guy life they could never do face to face.



Damn straight, and welcome aboard.


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## koshergrl (Oct 14, 2013)

Holy crap, I see the LSD brigade has arrived.

Must be socks..I mean friends...of boop!


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 14, 2013)

1CAVCCO15MED said:


> Wow!  Nothing new here.  Anonymous Fake Tough Guys blathering anything to keep a battle going so they can have their safe, warm self righteousness.  Real vets doing their best to explain the truth which the Anonymous Fake Tough Guys then ignore and spout out profanity and obscenity because they think it is more powerful than the truth.  We were doing this a dozen years ago on other sites and to my knowledge, never convinced a single one about anything.  That is because they are not really arguing, they are living vicariously an Anonymous Fake Tough Guy life they could never do face to face.



Welcome aboard Doc Fred!  Same same as you said.  You're probably a fake Cav guy too like me.  Booger's a fake truck driver and Doc Hal's a fake medic too.  We just surf the web spreading fear into the hearts of the ignorant everywhere.  What do they say..."truth hurts."

Not hip enough....(think about that guys), to understand you're meaning about the LSD thing Koshergirl.  Could you enlighten me, other than it's an hallucinogenic.


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## bOOger (Oct 14, 2013)

Goes to show you what you Cav guys know..... LSD is an Italian dish which stands for Lasgana, Spagetti, with a side order of a Dandoline salad. If you walk into any Italian resturant and order LSD, this is what you get.
Where did Pauli girl go? 
O Solo Mio bOOger


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## PrometheusBound (Oct 14, 2013)

Having spent 6 months in combat myself, I've never had any respect for PTSDs.  War is terrifying at times, but that is suppressed so much that I've never even dreamed about Vietnam.  Obviously, you can't dwell on it or you'll go insane, so you have a built in protective mechanism to put it out of your mind.  How else could I have gone after the horrible screaming I heard the first time I was in a firefight?

 We were overworked to the point of exhaustion, which made us numb emotionally.  The worst part, as I figured out later, was that I felt like a punching bag never getting a clear shot at the enemy, who were picking us off week after week until I only had a 50% chance of surviving my full tour.  The best therapy would have been exactly the opposite of what our anti-manhood psychiatric cult would recommend.   Not that I had a disorder, but it would have helped if I had gotten into target shooting or hunting when I got back to "the world" just to get the feeling of control over that kind of situation.

When I came back, every once in awhile I would get a sudden psychotic urge.  I was fully aware of where it had come from, so I ignored it until it went away.  No one has an excuse to give into post-traumatic urges.  The Viet Cong had it far worse than even the Marines did, but their country hasn't become a basket case of lazy whining veterans and psychotic killers.  If anything like that happens there, it should be blamed on Communism, not war.

War is mankind's natural state.  Being a warrior is a normal step to maturity, though not a necessary one.  So it is logical that humans have evolved a built-in immunity to PTSD.   It is an imaginary disease, but the fatal and little discussed disease of a society that would encourage those with tough experiences to maginify their reactions and become obsessed and addicted to every emotion is what should really be cured.


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## 1CAVCCO15MED (Oct 14, 2013)

LSD=Landing Ship Dock  Never had the privilege but did ride on an LST once.  Wow, now PTSD is a liberal scheme to take away our guns.  That will be news to the guys I know that are being treated for it at the VA.  One guy I know has a gun in every room within reach at all times.   He also had a gun in his car, one in his pocket and one in his desk at work.  By the way, PTSD is about rage.  I wonder what some of these guy's family would say about their tempers?  Or better yet, ex-wives.  Or their kids, are they afraid of their fathers?  Like one of our buddies said, "By the time my seventh wife left me, I knew I had a problem."


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 14, 2013)

Hey Doc. Fred! 
Doc Fred earned his PTSD and PH the old fashioned way. He earned them.


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 14, 2013)

PrometheusBound said:


> Having spent 6 months in combat myself, I've never had any respect for PTSDs.  War is terrifying at times, but that is suppressed so much that I've never even dreamed about Vietnam.  Obviously, you can't dwell on it or you'll go insane, so you have a built in protective mechanism to put it out of your mind.  How else could I have gone after the horrible screaming I heard the first time I was in a firefight?
> 
> We were overworked to the point of exhaustion, which made us numb emotionally.  The worst part, as I figured out later, was that I felt like a punching bag never getting a clear shot at the enemy, who were picking us off week after week until I only had a 50% chance of surviving my full tour.  The best therapy would have been exactly the opposite of what our anti-manhood psychiatric cult would recommend.   Not that I had a disorder, but it would have helped if I had gotten into target shooting or hunting when I got back to "the world" just to get the feeling of control over that kind of situation.
> 
> ...



What does "psychotic urge" have to do with PTSD?  There is no psychosis with PTSD.  If you had/have "psychotic urges" I suggest that has nothing to do with combat and you might need to see a psychiatrist, soon.  PTSD is described in ancient writings by Greeks through all the wars in history.  To say it's an imaginary disease just because you might be lucky enough not to suffer from it is to say than no other disorders exist because you don't have it.  I don't see our veterans as "basket case lazy whiners" and there is absolutely no evidence that that is the case.  Vietnam Vets have been some of the most productive veterans in our history.  FedEx is just one of many examples.  All of my patients for 30 years had great careers. Who did you do your 6 months with and when?


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 14, 2013)

PrementraousBound-

Please, please, *PLEASE* do not feel the need to advise us of your urges. I know a little about bOOger's and his exceeded my lifetime tolerance quota by quite a bit.

Did I mention my SF tat.?


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## 1CAVCCO15MED (Oct 14, 2013)

So war is the natural state of man.  In other words, combat remolded your nervous system to function in combat but you can't turn it off so you go around reacting in inappropriate ways to things but you are able to hide it from the people around you because they wouldn't understand and would react negatively to it.  I like the choice of Prometheus also.  Here is a guy who did one brave thing and now spends all eternity being punished by having his liver removed by an eagle every day only to have it grow back at night and repeat the whole process.  I'll bet stupid drivers really, really piss you off, in fact, just about everyone really, really pisses you off.


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 14, 2013)

Ok guys...I was being tactful.  I find the whole Prometheus thing a bit bizarre.  I was never aware that I only had a 50/50 shot of making it.  Certainly at Omaha Beach you had a much greater chance of survival than 50/50.  I believe it was less than 1 out of 10.  Well, what do I know.  I never had any respect for Bi-Polar Disorder either but don't deny its existence.


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## bOOger (Oct 14, 2013)

Doc Fred
That's an interesting story about Prometheus and his liver..... During our reunions, my liver gets removed every night but it grows back before the first drink of the day. 
Rejuvenating bOOger


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 14, 2013)

bOOger said:


> Doc Fred
> That's an interesting story about Prometheus and his liver..... During our reunions, my liver gets removed every night but it grows back before the first drink of the day.
> Rejuvenating bOOger



Prometheus bOOger.  It fits.  I just spewed on that one!

Hey, Whitehall, are you the same guy who used to hang on the old History Channel???  Wouldn't surprise me.

Paco aka 1AirCav69


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## PrometheusBound (Oct 15, 2013)

1AirCav69 said:


> PrometheusBound said:
> 
> 
> > Having spent 6 months in combat myself, I've never had any respect for PTSDs.  War is terrifying at times, but that is suppressed so much that I've never even dreamed about Vietnam.  Obviously, you can't dwell on it or you'll go insane, so you have a built in protective mechanism to put it out of your mind.  How else could I have gone after the horrible screaming I heard the first time I was in a firefight?
> ...



You make your living off whiners who never grew up and crawl back into their sheltered child minds when having to face the normal adult growing up process of dealing with combat.  

I was in the Marine Corps infantry with Hotel Company, Second Battalion, Fifth Marine Regiment from Sept66 to March67.   Thirty-eight out of the 150 Marines (never T/O) in my company died in my half tour in combat.  Foxtrot Company had about 115 dead that year, including 59 in one day.  All these loonies who supply you with psychological case studies are exceptions that prove the rule.  

The first I saw of them was when I was stationed at Charleston.  The childish self-indulgent guard pointed a 45 at someone's head just to get off on his goofiness.   Insanity has become an addictive drug and there's no excuse for them to let themselves get hooked in the first place.


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## PrometheusBound (Oct 15, 2013)

1CAVCCO15MED said:


> So war is the natural state of man.  In other words, combat remolded your nervous system to function in combat but you can't turn it off so you go around reacting in inappropriate ways to things but you are able to hide it from the people around you because they wouldn't understand and would react negatively to it.   I'll bet stupid drivers really, really piss you off, in fact, just about everyone really, really pisses you off.



Nobody pisses me off.  You piss me off with your giggling-teenybopper attempt at a put down, but you are a nobody.


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## usmcstinger (Oct 15, 2013)

A Team Leader at the Babylon Vet Center described PTSD as a sane reaction to the insanity of  War.


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## PrometheusBound (Oct 15, 2013)

1AirCav69 said:


> Ok guys...I was being tactful.  I find the whole Prometheus thing a bit bizarre.  I was never aware that I only had a 50/50 shot of making it.  Certainly at Omaha Beach you had a much greater chance of survival than 50/50.  I believe it was less than 1 out of 10.  Well, what do I know..



You are the kind of buttboy of the 1% who would have been proud to die taking a rich kid's place.  I don't care if you got the Medal of Honor in Vietnam, if you support Bush's right to live after having his Daddy get him out of fighting, THEN YOU HAVE NO HONOR.


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## PrometheusBound (Oct 15, 2013)

All these little Mamas' Boy Vietnam vets who had the fight taken out of them and support the Right-Wing slimeball draftdodgers make me sick.  Pissed off?  Only those in denial calling slapping scab insects "pissed off."  These hollow gutless proud-to-be cannonfodder traitors whine in crippled cadence, "Bush didn't protest.  He didn't call us names.  So him having his Daddy get him out of having to fight is OK with me."

You lovers of Chickenhawk guillotine fodder never should have come back.   Such scab loyal peasants do not belong in America.  The gooks would have done us a favor by eliminating slaveboys like you.


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 15, 2013)

Yawning here PrometheusBound.  Now what is it you're trying to say?  Try wiping the foam of your mouth and getting your Haldol increased.  It may help you out, though I doubt it.  Who the fuck said anything about Bush?  That's all in YOUR head.  Most of my patients were Marines, hero, tough guy. Guess they were all just pussies also.  Your rants don't affect me in any way.  I've heard them all before when I worked inpatient.  Being a vet doesn't give your rants any credibility what so ever.  So rant on.  I think you're projecting with your "buttboy" comment.


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 15, 2013)

usmcstinger said:


> A Team Leader at the Babylon Vet Center described PTSD as a sane reaction to the insanity of  War.



I agree.  Seems one of your Marines doesn't quite agree with you.  My experience doesn't agree with him.


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## bOOger (Oct 15, 2013)

I too was trying to make sense of Prometheus posts. Looks like he was trying to cram a lot of thought into a short period of time...I bet the inpatient ward gives him a limited amount of time on the PC...... Right
I Pad using bOOger


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## Camp (Oct 15, 2013)

My mind goes blank or reachs negatives thoughts whenever I try to figure out why anyone gives a crap about the benies a vet might be getting.


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 15, 2013)

And so ProMo reveals himself as an idiotic persona invented for the purpose of making idiotic political statements on-line. (yawn)
OK, next wannabe...


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## 1CAVCCO15MED (Oct 15, 2013)

Are we liberals or conservatives?  We can't be both.  OR CAN WE?  Personally, I think the moon is liberal.  Always spongin' light off the sun, hanging around the earth instead of trying to go out on her own and use her God given mass to make her own plantetary orbit.  AND she is practically made of that freebie government cheese.


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## PrometheusBound (Oct 16, 2013)

bOOger said:


> I too was trying to make sense of Prometheus posts. Looks like he was trying to cram a lot of thought into a short period of time...I bet the inpatient ward gives him a limited amount of time on the PC...... Right
> I Pad using bOOger



I just picked you out of my nose and flicked you at all the other hollow-shell soldiers.


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## PrometheusBound (Oct 16, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


> And so ProMo reveals himself as an idiotic persona invented for the purpose of making idiotic political statements on-line. (yawn)
> OK, next wannabe...



All you crybaby-lovers are girlymen who lower the bar on manhood so you "don't look so bad, compared to the screwed-up combat veterans."


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## Connery (Oct 16, 2013)

PrometheusBound said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > And so ProMo reveals himself as an idiotic persona invented for the purpose of making idiotic political statements on-line. (yawn)
> ...




I posted this earlier Prometheus, "Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) is a mental health problem that can occur after someone goes through a traumatic event like war, assault, or disaster". I also stated I sit on an advisory board specifically dealing with patients and issues solely related to PTSD and the surrounding complications for a VA hospital.  What is your problem? PTSD has nothing to do with a failing in manhood, in fact, it takes a person with a great degree of courage to face these issues male or female.

NATIONAL CENTER for PTSD Home


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## 1CAVCCO15MED (Oct 16, 2013)

One of the sad things about PTSD is the people out there with it that glory in their rage and isolation.  It takes courage to face that.


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 16, 2013)

I think Prometheus doth protest too much.  All the "girlyman" type references....again, projection I'm afraid.  Conney, welcome to the girl man club.

Doc, not convinced he's what he says he is and probably never will be.  Too much tough guy crap instead of the been there done that don't gotta prove my manhood norm of the vast majority of combat vets I've know as friends for a ton of years and patients.


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## bOOger (Oct 16, 2013)

History has proven that the harsher the words, the smaller the person (mentally). I'm still not sure about Prometheus being a wannabe or not., but I know one thing, you guys need to go clean the boogers off that he's been slinging. 
Girly Man bOOger


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## whitehall (Oct 16, 2013)

1CAVCCO15MED said:


> One of the sad things about PTSD is the people out there with it that glory in their rage and isolation.  It takes courage to face that.



Apparently the "glory in their rage and isolation" ain't enough. They need that government check to self medicate.


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 16, 2013)

whitehall said:


> 1CAVCCO15MED said:
> 
> 
> > One of the sad things about PTSD is the people out there with it that glory in their rage and isolation.  It takes courage to face that.
> ...



And some folks apparently need to try to smear shit on others in their efforts to feel superior to _somebody_. Doesn't matter who they hurt as long as they stroke their own pathetic little egos.


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 17, 2013)

whitehall said:


> 1CAVCCO15MED said:
> 
> 
> > One of the sad things about PTSD is the people out there with it that glory in their rage and isolation.  It takes courage to face that.
> ...



Yep, it's Whitehall.  Another "never been" who knows it all.  After reading his last idiotic comment it's time for me to spend some more of my "free money" on some self-medication.  I can see why he came here after the HC shut down.  He has lots of buddies that are just as ignorant as he is.


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## PrometheusBound (Oct 17, 2013)

Connery said:


> PrometheusBound said:
> 
> 
> > 9thIDdoc said:
> ...



Nobody yet has done a Pentagon Papers or Wikileaks exposing psychiatric dogma.   You post that like it's some infallible Bible.   A psychiatrist doesn't earn a living until he is 30 years old.   Having childish escapists like that treat the public is as much of a contradiction as the Catholic Church assigning celibate priests to be marriage counselors.


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## PrometheusBound (Oct 17, 2013)

whitehall said:


> 1CAVCCO15MED said:
> 
> 
> > One of the sad things about PTSD is the people out there with it that glory in their rage and isolation.  It takes courage to face that.
> ...



Also, the voodoo shrinks need government make-work jobs.


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 17, 2013)

PrometheusBound said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > PrometheusBound said:
> ...



You don't have to be a cow to know where milk comes from.


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## koshergrl (Oct 17, 2013)

PrometheusBound said:


> All these little Mamas' Boy Vietnam vets who had the fight taken out of them and support the Right-Wing slimeball draftdodgers make me sick.  Pissed off?  Only those in denial calling slapping scab insects "pissed off."  These hollow gutless proud-to-be cannonfodder traitors whine in crippled cadence, "Bush didn't protest.  He didn't call us names.  So him having his Daddy get him out of having to fight is OK with me."
> 
> You lovers of Chickenhawk guillotine fodder never should have come back.   Such scab loyal peasants do not belong in America.  The gooks would have done us a favor by eliminating slaveboys like you.



Someone needs to smack you back to sanity.


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## whitehall (Oct 17, 2013)

1AirCav69 said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > 1CAVCCO15MED said:
> ...



In my experience the posters who use handles to remind themselves and others that they served in the Military are usually the guys that have problems picking up babes. Go for it you psychos. Swallow your pride for a $100 PTSD check every month from Uncle.


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## 1CAVCCO15MED (Oct 17, 2013)

whitehall said:


> 1AirCav69 said:
> 
> 
> > whitehall said:
> ...



Er, Whitehall, it's $2973.  And I picked my girl up 41 years ago less 5 days.


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 17, 2013)

whitehall said:


> 1AirCav69 said:
> 
> 
> > whitehall said:
> ...



No, Whitewash, it's to try and lend a little bit of credibility to their statements.  It's to say, "I wasn't a never been like Whitewash, I was actually there, so here's my experience."  I have found that guys that say people like me have trouble, "picking up babes", have had  a real problem even picking up heifers. I've had more babes, and am married to one, then people like Whitewash will ever have or ever had. Women go for real men, especially those that jump from aircraft while in flight.  You probably have lived most of your life wishing you could have had a life like mine.  Twit.  You use your stupid handle to keep people guessing if you ever served in combat when you make your ignorant judgements about those that did.  Since you've never spent a milli-second in the field, if you used, "never been in combat" as a handle, even more people would tell you to STFU then do, and it's usually about 90% against you.  Just like the old HC.....asshole.  Again, you'll have this place to yourself and your other ignorant buddies soon.  I just came here like I did the HC to put people like you in your place.  Under the table, not fit to eat with those that sit in the seats. ESADMF Whitewash.


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 17, 2013)

1CAVCCO15MED said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > 1AirCav69 said:
> ...



Whitebread,  I know Doc's wife.  You couldn't lick her toe jam. (She wouldn't let you anyway so you'll just have to beatoff another night wondering.)   Oh, and mine is $3073 a month.  You see, I'm over 170% Service Connected.  Just got a few more wounds than my buddy Doc.  That doesn't count Social Security and 30 years with the guvment.  Laugh now asshole as to my $100 bucks a month.  Oops, see a guvment tit near by...think I'll go suck it some more.


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## Camp (Oct 17, 2013)

1AirCav69 said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > 1AirCav69 said:
> ...



If a person doesn't understand what that unit and year means, fuck 'em. Any man would be proud to wear it. It says all that need to be said.


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## whitehall (Oct 17, 2013)

The kicker is that in most states PTSD "patients" are qualified for medical marijuana "therapy". Go to it pot heads.


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## 1CAVCCO15MED (Oct 17, 2013)

In case there is anyone out there who is sincerely curious about PTSD, here is something this guy wrote:

PTSD In One Sentence

So you are twenty and you just stepped on a mine and you are all mangled and the medic&#8217;s eyes tell you that are not going to live and you start crying for your mother in this little two year old voice which wakes you up and you are not two and you are not twenty but sixty five and the war was forty five years ago and you had this dream because you hit a stump yesterday and killed your mower and it freaked you out and you are going to walk around all day pretending to be fine but it will take one, two ,three weeks to come back from the dead if you don&#8217;t have another dream in one, two, three days and have to walk around some more pretending you belong in this world.


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## whitehall (Oct 17, 2013)

1CAVCCO15MED said:


> In case there is anyone out there who is sincerely curious about PTSD, here is something this guy wrote:
> 
> PTSD In One Sentence
> 
> So you are twenty and you just stepped on a mine and you are all mangled and the medics eyes tell you that are not going to live and you start crying for your mother in this little two year old voice which wakes you up and you are not two and you are not twenty but sixty five and the war was forty five years ago and you had this dream because you hit a stump yesterday and killed your mower and it freaked you out and you are going to walk around all day pretending to be fine but it will take one, two ,three weeks to come back from the dead if you dont have another dream in one, two, three days and have to walk around some more pretending you belong in this world.



A Heart qualifies you for whatever compensation you can get from Uncle regardless of PTSD and including PTSD, but what if you spent your Vietnam tour in the States and only thought about stepping on a mine and you get these nightmares? Do you qualify? Do PTSD proponents search out drunks and recluses for sub-standard federal PTSD treatment regardless of their actual combat experience? Do fakers get away with a prescription for medical marijuana without having experienced a scratch?


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 18, 2013)

whitehall said:


> 1CAVCCO15MED said:
> 
> 
> > In case there is anyone out there who is sincerely curious about PTSD, here is something this guy wrote:
> ...



Whitehall, PTSD is 'POST TRAUMATIC"  you cannot get PTSD because you thought about stepping on mines when there were no mines.  You can get it from surviving a plane crash but not for dreaming you're going to be in a plane crash.  You might get some anxiety and in some cases people's anxieties about flying, riding in cars, etc. can lead to a full blown Anxiety Disorder, but you must have suffered "beyond the realm on normal trauma" to generally get PTSD.  So, no, having nightmares about trauma that never happened does not qualify.  

I know of no professionals that "search out drunks and recluses" for "sub-standard federal PTSD treatment"  regardless of their "actual combat experience".  That's ridiculous.  After the DAV's Forgotten Warrior Project which was on the fore front of PTSD treatment in the mid-late 70's, Congress was pissed that the DAV was doing this and demanded the VA begin a program for treatment of PTSD.  There was a lot of opposition from old VA about it but they eventually became the model for PTSD treatment and have been improving ever since.  Treatment has jumped up by leaps and bounds since I began working in it in the late 70's.  Yes, we did Outreach to all Vietnam Veterans be they drunks, homeless, or established professionals in all areas.  Since there was basically no treatment options for people with PTSD many self-medicated with alcohol and drugs.  Getting them cleaned up and into treatment was the goal for those vets.  I had many patients that used, not abused, alcohol and were able to cope with treatment and never became alcoholics.  Some patients needed chemotherapy, i.e. anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, type meds and they worked great for some.  Everybody is different.  The programs are so established now they don't need to do the outreach we had to at the beginning of the program.  I wouldn't call a program sub-standard unless you knew something about it and just because it's "federal".  The VA was on the forefront of replacement hips before the civilian community knew anything about them.  I have a ton of issues with the VA but there are a shit load of dedicated people that could be making better money elsewhere that work for the VA because they want to help veterans.  I could have made double or triple what I made at the VA or DOD had I gone into private practice.

As to fakers, well of course there were fakers but we tried hard to weed them out.  I required each patient of mine to sign a SF-180, a release of their records, before I would allow them in a group to see if they were telling the truth about their service.  Some can always slip through but the vast majority of all my Vietnam vets were what they said they were.  Those that weren't, didn't get any treatment from me.  There are "fakers" in every aspect of life.

I'm not addressing the medical marijuana issue as that has nothing to do with the VA and PTSD treatment.  From what I know about medical marijuana is that anybody can get it for any reason as long as a doctor writes the scrip.

I hope this will answer some of your questions without getting pissie.


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## PrometheusBound (Oct 18, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> PrometheusBound said:
> 
> 
> > All these little Mamas' Boy Vietnam vets who had the fight taken out of them and support the Right-Wing slimeball draftdodgers make me sick.  Pissed off?  Only those in denial calling slapping scab insects "pissed off."  These hollow gutless proud-to-be cannonfodder traitors whine in crippled cadence, "Bush didn't protest.  He didn't call us names.  So him having his Daddy get him out of having to fight is OK with me."
> ...



I nailed you draftdodger-lover.   NAILED is an anagram of DENIAL.   You can't handle the truth!


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## PrometheusBound (Oct 18, 2013)

whitehall said:


> 1AirCav69 said:
> 
> 
> > whitehall said:
> ...



Then why should we ever protect you again?   Next time the war will be right here against the 1% and their herds of sheep goosestepping behind Chickenhawks.


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## 1CAVCCO15MED (Oct 18, 2013)

OK, OK, OK  You got me.  I confess.  I burned my draft card.  Some buddies and me burned our draft cards.  We were drinking, (Imagine that) and were livin' large in Bien Hoa, Vietnam.  We yelled, "Hell, no we won't go, we're already here!"  A most satisfying moment, I must say.


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## whitehall (Oct 18, 2013)

PrometheusBound said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > 1AirCav69 said:
> ...



Wait a minute. I protected you before you protected me.


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## BDBoop (Oct 18, 2013)

whitehall said:


> The kicker is that in most states PTSD "patients" are qualified for medical marijuana "therapy". Go to it pot heads.



Know how I know you're gay? Because you're in here trash talking the real men.

Thanks for reminding me your ass is supposed to be on ignore.


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## bOOger (Oct 18, 2013)

Ms Boop
So Whitehall is gay? Who woulda thunk..... Well I kinda suspected it,but I didn't wanna say anything. Hey listen, this is the 21st century and if he likes to hang out in pickle parks, so be it...... Gotta go fill my weed prescription, talk to ya latter Ms Boop
Smokin' bOOger


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## usmcstinger (Oct 18, 2013)

1CAVCCO15MED said:


> OK, OK, OK  You got me.  I confess.  I burned my draft card.  Some buddies and me burned our draft cards.  We were drinking, (Imagine that) and were livin' large in Bien Hoa, Vietnam.  We yelled, "Hell, no we won't go, we're already here!"  A most satisfying moment, I must say.



Yeah, I avoided the Draft. I enlisted in the USMC. C co. 1st Bn 4th Marines 66-68 Infantry Fire Team Leader Northern I Corps to the Zee. I have no regrets and make no apologies.

I have two good friends who were with the 1st CAV. One was with the 1st of 7th and the other 2nd of the 8th.

Welcome Home!


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 18, 2013)

usmcstinger said:


> 1CAVCCO15MED said:
> 
> 
> > OK, OK, OK  You got me.  I confess.  I burned my draft card.  Some buddies and me burned our draft cards.  We were drinking, (Imagine that) and were livin' large in Bien Hoa, Vietnam.  We yelled, "Hell, no we won't go, we're already here!"  A most satisfying moment, I must say.
> ...



I was 2/8 and Doc Fred was 15th Med.  Semper Fi buddy and Welcome Home!  I don't know anybody that has regrets or make apologies either.  It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.  Were you PI or Hollywood?  I retired from DOD off of MCRD PI.  I was doing recruit psych evals.  Now that was a fun job!


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## BDBoop (Oct 18, 2013)

bOOger said:


> Ms Boop
> So Whitehall is gay? Who woulda thunk..... Well I kinda suspected it,but I didn't wanna say anything. Hey listen, this is the 21st century and if he likes to hang out in pickle parks, so be it...... Gotta go fill my weed prescription, talk to ya latter Ms Boop
> Smokin' bOOger



Laterz!


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## bOOger (Oct 18, 2013)

Welcome home usmcstinger..... You sure you wanna associate with us "soldiers"... Since we've been here, we've been called everything but white boys.
Insulted bOOger


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## 1CAVCCO15MED (Oct 18, 2013)

I came in to I Corps Camp Evans.  1/7th and 2/8th were in our brigade.  We got their casualties.  I moved south with the Cav to III Corps.  We got very busy down there.


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## 1CAVCCO15MED (Oct 18, 2013)

Several of us here got Purple Hearts.  Except for Booger and James.  Booger did get the Black Syph and James was just a sneaky little bastard.


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## whitehall (Oct 18, 2013)

The post is deteriorating. Betty thinks PTSD patients are "real men" and 1st Cav thinks he protected me while he was fighting in LBJ's war while I protected him before Vietnam.. Don't get me wrong, I think the Vietnam conflict was justified but it was badly run. If I may interject a psychological aspect (which I admit  I am not qualified to do but it's interesting). I think the PTSD proponents are expressing their anti-war views while holding on to the most honorable time in their lives. Nurturing PTSD "patients" ain't the best way to express political anger or regain the honor in your lives.


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 18, 2013)

whitehall said:


> The post is deteriorating. Betty thinks PTSD patients are "real men" and 1st Cav thinks he protected me while he was fighting in LBJ's war while I protected him before Vietnam.. Don't get me wrong, I think the Vietnam conflict was justified but it was badly run. If I may interject a psychological aspect (which I admit  I am not qualified to do but it's interesting). I think the PTSD proponents are expressing their anti-war views while holding on to the most honorable time in their lives. Nurturing PTSD "patients" ain't the best way to express political anger or regain the honor in your lives.



Or then again maybe you just get off on insulting your betters.


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## whitehall (Oct 18, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > The post is deteriorating. Betty thinks PTSD patients are "real men" and 1st Cav thinks he protected me while he was fighting in LBJ's war while I protected him before Vietnam.. Don't get me wrong, I think the Vietnam conflict was justified but it was badly run. If I may interject a psychological aspect (which I admit  I am not qualified to do but it's interesting). I think the PTSD proponents are expressing their anti-war views while holding on to the most honorable time in their lives. Nurturing PTSD "patients" ain't the best way to express political anger or regain the honor in your lives.
> ...



Come on Doc. We are on the same side or at least we used to be. I don't think PTSD is a legitimate diagnosis in most cases and you do. Let's not get crazy about the issue.


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 18, 2013)

whitehall said:


> The post is deteriorating. Betty thinks PTSD patients are "real men" and 1st Cav thinks he protected me while he was fighting in LBJ's war while I protected him before Vietnam.. Don't get me wrong, I think the Vietnam conflict was justified but it was badly run. If I may interject a psychological aspect (which I admit  I am not qualified to do but it's interesting). I think the PTSD proponents are expressing their anti-war views while holding on to the most honorable time in their lives. Nurturing PTSD "patients" ain't the best way to express political anger or regain the honor in your lives.



Well, I did my best at not getting pissie with Whitebread.  Again, I was wrong.  First off asshole, it was Prometheus and you that were talking about protecting whoever.  Not me dick.  You have no reading and comprehension skills what so ever.  When I went to war it was Nixon's, not LBJ's....thus the 69' but you can't even get that.  I believe the war was LBJ's basically, but you can't even get simple dates right.  Since I've been and still am a PTSD patient, I would love for you to call me something other than a man to my face.  Actually all the Marines I treated at PI who fought multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan would be thrilled to make your acquaintance.  Especially the one that got the Navy Cross in Iraq.  They would Semper Fi your ass in a second but then again, your guts only go as far as hiding behind a computer.  What the fuck makes you think I'm "anti-war"?  I don't like it but I do find Chicken Hawks like you interesting.  You never spent a milli-second in combat but have "nightmares that you might step on a mine."  What a fucking punk you are to judge combat veterans according to YOUR political agenda.  You're "pro-war" as long as you don't have to spill any blood.  That's YOUR friggin' game.  Big war talker who never got there but "almost got killed on Parris Island."  Pussy.  I tried real hard to be nice and lay out some facts to you and how do you respond?  "PTSD patients aren't "real men".  You're other comment within a comment also strikes me.  Regain honor in our lives?  Man, you are one sick demented fuck of a Pogue loser.  No wonder everyone on the HC used to piss down your back.  Your are not only unqualified to render an opinion, it wasn't even interesting.  It just proves that you are one stupid ignorant individual that I would love to meet some day.  I wouldn't try to make nice with Doc Hal.  He's never been on your side on the PTSD issue, I guarantee that but I'm sure he'll let you know.  I'm done with you, you maggot piece of shit and truthfully, I only wish the worst to befall on your miserable life.  I'm sure it's been miserable, but I hope it gets worse.  In short, Fuck you punk.


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## whitehall (Oct 18, 2013)

1AirCav69 said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > The post is deteriorating. Betty thinks PTSD patients are "real men" and 1st Cav thinks he protected me while he was fighting in LBJ's war while I protected him before Vietnam.. Don't get me wrong, I think the Vietnam conflict was justified but it was badly run. If I may interject a psychological aspect (which I admit  I am not qualified to do but it's interesting). I think the PTSD proponents are expressing their anti-war views while holding on to the most honorable time in their lives. Nurturing PTSD "patients" ain't the best way to express political anger or regain the honor in your lives.
> ...



Lighten up Cav before you have a stroke. Regardless of the time you enlisted or was drafted it was always LBJ's war. Betty Boop called PTSD patients "real men" not me. I guess I struck a cord though.


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## whitehall (Oct 18, 2013)

I'm no expert so I ask a legitimate question about PTSD and I hope the experts can answer it. Are there degrees of PTSD? What is the criteria for authorizing a PTSD disability? Is there a point at which the V.A. admits that a PTSD patient is dangerous to himself and society?


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 18, 2013)

whitehall said:


> 1AirCav69 said:
> 
> 
> > whitehall said:
> ...



Read. BB wrote this:
_"Know how I know you're gay? Because you're in here trash talking the real men."
_
Note that she had just quoted you.
You should also note that I am also one the PTSD patients that you are so eager to defame, discredit and insult. You are also the one (along with some others here) whose honor sucks bigtime. Your outspoken ignorant prejudice does great harm to those who deserve to be honored.


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## whitehall (Oct 18, 2013)

9thIDdoc said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > 1AirCav69 said:
> ...



The ball is in your court Doc. Give us the skinny about your psychosis.


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## whitehall (Oct 18, 2013)

Is it ethical for a Corpsman to recommend himself for a PTSD pension? Sounds like a pretty good deal though.


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## whitehall (Oct 18, 2013)

My personal heroes among Navy Corpsmen and Army Medics, although there are many, are Navy Corpsman John Bradley and Army Medic John Chatterton. Neither one as far as I know ever claimed a PTSD pension.


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## Camp (Oct 18, 2013)

whitehall said:


> I'm no expert so I ask a legitimate question about PTSD and I hope the experts can answer it. Are there degrees of PTSD? What is the criteria for authorizing a PTSD disability? Is there a point at which the V.A. admits that a PTSD patient is dangerous to himself and society?



You asked that question before and I gave you a list. Now you are backpedddling and playing stupid. Are you to lazy to look up the information I provided to you or just backpeddling? You are asking stupid questions. Your fakery shows through. Why don't you quit while you are behind. You are just making a bigger fool of yourself than you already have.


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## whitehall (Oct 18, 2013)

Camp said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > I'm no expert so I ask a legitimate question about PTSD and I hope the experts can answer it. Are there degrees of PTSD? What is the criteria for authorizing a PTSD disability? Is there a point at which the V.A. admits that a PTSD patient is dangerous to himself and society?
> ...



I'm getting old Camp. Tell me again.


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## Camp (Oct 18, 2013)

whitehall said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> > whitehall said:
> ...



You can't  educate yourself about PTSD on a message board. You can learn some things, but in your case, you have way to much to learn. 
At least look up these five recognized levels or types of PTSD

Normal Stress Response
Acute Stress Disorder
Uncomplicated PTSD
Cormorbid PTSD
Complex PTSD       

At least read up on these levels or types of PTSD before being so quick to talk about a topic you seem so unprepared to talk about.


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 18, 2013)

"_The ball is in your court Doc. Give us the skinny about your psychosis." _

If you were paying any attention what-so-ever you would already know that PTSD is *not* a Psychosis.

_"Is it ethical for a Corpsman to recommend himself for a PTSD pension? Sounds like a pretty good deal though." _

Think. PTSD was not a recognized or defined disorder until long after Vietnam.
Again, I get no pension for PTSD.
I never recommended myself for anything. That may be the reason I don't have a PH.
And no, I don't think that PTSD is in any way a "good deal".


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## 1CAVCCO15MED (Oct 18, 2013)

The criteria for taking the guns of a person with PTSD is the same as anyone else;  Threatening to kill yourself or others.  In this state they would be taken to an ER and the MD would evaluate them and then they would be sent to a closed psychiatric unit for evaluation for three days.  To stay any further and the psychiatrist would have to take the guy to court where he would have his own lawyer and then a judge would decide if further committal is necessary.  As long as he is a threat to himself or others, his guns would be kept away from him.  Once he is declared sane, he gets them back if he wants them.


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## 1CAVCCO15MED (Oct 18, 2013)

I personally know of one guy that is 100% disabled with PTSD.  He is a real basket case.  He has brain damage from it and can't drive or manage any of his own affairs.  He has uncontrollable rage at times.  He was a Marine in Vietnam during the Tet Offensive.  His area was overrun and he spent several days hiding under the roots of a tree pissing and shitting on on himself while the NVA were all around executing civilians.  He came home, finished college and worked as a probation officer for over 25 years.  He had a breakdown and never worked again.  He is married to his high school sweetheart who has never left his side no matter how many times he has abused her.  I knew him as a kid.  We were counselors at scout camp together.  He is an Eagle Scout and his nickname was Peaches, not because he was sissy but because he was such a nice kid.  But now, his life is one of unmitigated suffering and sorrow.


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 19, 2013)

I can't understand why any of you guys are still answering this twit.  He asks the same stuff over and over again, doesn't read the answers, or nit pics an answer to get what he wants, then insults everyone with his reply.  The exact same MO as when this pos was on HC.  He's a sick, twisted, old man, who's jealous of everyone that went to war and will continue to do the same.  I really did try to educated this asshole and got nothing but insults back.  He won't rest until some asshole that agrees with him comes on and then he'll feel vindicated.  Fuck this loser.


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 19, 2013)

Camp said:


> whitehall said:
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> > Camp said:
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Camp, he doesn't want to be educated.  He just wants to see how many people will continue to answer his stupid fucking questions over and over again.  He was educated a million times over on HC and would just do the same thing over and over.  He's only looking for answers that justify his bigotry not the ones he's getting that go against everything he believes in.


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## Camp (Oct 19, 2013)

1AirCav69 said:


> Camp said:
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I understand he is a troll. I like to troll the trolls. His bs gives an oppurtunity to help educate others who may be reading the post. If one family member or friend does just a little research guided by the information they got here it will all be worth it.


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## editec (Oct 19, 2013)

whitehall said:


> I'm no expert so I ask a legitimate question about PTSD and I hope the experts can answer it. Are there degrees of PTSD?




Yes, of course.




> What is the criteria for authorizing a PTSD disability?



Determination by a qualified psychiatrist



> Is there a point at which the V.A. admits that a PTSD patient is dangerous to himself and society?



What makes you INSIST that they are a danger to himself and others?

They might be, (unlikely but possible) but being dangerous to yourself and others isn't necessarily an outcome of PTSD.

Where did you get THAT idea, Whitehall?


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## bOOger (Oct 19, 2013)

My synopsis on Whitehall, for what it's worth. If he did serve?? It was before the Vietnam war. This makes him older than dirt. Due to the fact that he didn't participate in any type of military action (not his fault), he just can't comprehend this whole PTSD thing. We all know that as we get older, we become set in our ways, and hard to convince otherwise. What I'm trying to say is...... You can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Doc Fred
Never had the Black Syph, but the Screamin' Demon was no laughing matter 

Confusious bOOger


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## BDBoop (Oct 19, 2013)

1CAVCCO15MED said:


> In case there is anyone out there who is sincerely curious about PTSD, here is something this guy wrote:
> 
> PTSD In One Sentence
> 
> So you are twenty and you just stepped on a mine and you are all mangled and the medics eyes tell you that are not going to live and you start crying for your mother in this little two year old voice which wakes you up and you are not two and you are not twenty but sixty five and the war was forty five years ago and you had this dream because you hit a stump yesterday and killed your mower and it freaked you out and you are going to walk around all day pretending to be fine but it will take one, two ,three weeks to come back from the dead if you dont have another dream in one, two, three days and have to walk around some more pretending you belong in this world.



That's one of the reasons I could never begrudge, or second guess.

The other is my PTSD. Survivors come in all shapes, sizes, and life experiences. So if I, in my mid 50's and one of the strongest women I know, ... can feel my brain damn near literally shatter and crawl off into the corners whimpering at shit I cannot share to this day ... That happened when I was too little to fight back ...

Fuck.

Anyway. 

So.

It takes a survivor to know a survivor.

Amd to also know all this unmitigated SHIT was for nothing is just salt in the wound.


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## usmcstinger (Oct 19, 2013)

1AirCav69 said:


> usmcstinger said:
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I went to PI. We were not issued sunglasses like Hollywood got.


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## usmcstinger (Oct 19, 2013)

You need to look up the History of PTSD. It is not hard to do.


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## usmcstinger (Oct 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Camp said:
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I am a Vietnam Combat Vet and most likely more of a Conservative than you are.

Since you do not understand anything about PTSD, try educating yourself by reading about the History of PTSD and the section of the DSM V devoted to it. If you do not know how to access the above, get a 12th Grader to help you. 

It is plausible that you a left wing nut, trying to make Conservatives look bad. 

Regardless of you political leanings, you are still very ignorant. Your BS is quite laughable.


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## 1CAVCCO15MED (Oct 19, 2013)

Let there Be Light by John Huston is on you tube.


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## 1CAVCCO15MED (Oct 19, 2013)

Add this to you tube.  German shell shock  /watch?v=yQD7ffTIhTM


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## 1AirCav69 (Oct 22, 2013)

1CAVCCO15MED said:


> Let there Be Light by John Huston is on you tube.



I've never seen this Doc.  Watched this today.  Great documentary and continues to dispel the myth that PTSD is newly invented.  Thanks.  Will get to the Germans later.


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## whitehall (Oct 24, 2013)

Camp said:


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Maybe you misunderstood my question. Is the PTSD syndrome directly connected to combat or should every housewife with a couple of kids who illustrates "comorbid PTSD" be eligible  for a pension if she is a government employee?


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 25, 2013)

whitehall said:


> Camp said:
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How many times must you be given the same answers to the same questions before you begin to understand? Do you even bother to read them?
1. No pension for PTSD.
2. The Post Traumatic Stress involved in PTSD may or may not be as a result of combat but...
3. ...it must be "service connected" (line of duty) and disabling to one extent or another in order to qualify for disability compensation. 
Example: a service member might become a POW and experience physical and/or mental and/or sexual abuse over a period of time without ever actually being in combat.


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## emilynghiem (Oct 25, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Camp said:
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Dear Pauli: I think you are talking about two different contexts.
(Like talking about the REAL green vote/movement and what the "Democrats/Liberals" bought and sold as carbon credits and passing corporations off as green for money etc.)

Those are two different things, and you are BOTH RIGHT.

There is a REAL PTSD and there is this abuse of labels to achieve political ends.
it happened with buying/selling the black vote, green vote, pink vote, anti war vote
and now the singlepayer vote was bought and sold as corporate political garbage.

This doesn't discredit the real thing that got HIJACKED.

So there is REAL PTSD 
"in addition" to what you are talking about
You're both right!

* I even got it from a 1 day incident of watching a group of people
harassed by federal marshals with the media making a public spectacle though the eviction technically by law violated their rights, it was pushed as valid because govt was behind it.
* more recently I got it after spending 24 hours in a botched hurricane evacuation
where afterwards I went numb, jumped at the sound of any noise louder than a pin drop,
and couldn't look at people because I'd seen crowds and crowds of them and just absorbed too much emotional panic and hysteria (the silent type). It took months to return to normal.

And I work with Democrats trying to  clean up the denial and damage going on. So I have seen the politicians buy and sell the minority votes, take millions of dollars away from community programs, and use that to buy big interests that can get them into office. After hijacking the Black vote, and the women's vote, they went after the anti-war and green vote, and now they are pimping the health care vote. All all these groups are complaining they go against their promises, so they have to do all the work themselves anyway!

I worry that this "denial syndrome "is something else. Either Bystander syndrome or Stockholm syndrome. Where people justify going along with it instead of confronting it. I think that is more dangerous. At least with PTSD there's recognition something is wrong.

Pauli what you are talking about IS really going on, but that is the political hijacking part.
That doesn't discredit the very real cases of PTSD and treatment. 
Falsely claiming rape to cover up does NOT mean "all cases of rape are fake."
It is ABUSING the fact there IS REAL RAPE in order to make false claims at others' expense.


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## waltky (Nov 4, 2014)

PTSD hangs on well after the battlefield is left...

*Army Sgt. Issac Sims left the war in Iraq, but it didn’t leave him*
_November 2, 2014 — The tattered brown house on Lawndale Avenue bears the scars of a distant war that Issac Sims survived until he returned home. Slivers of glass from broken windows lie beneath walls pocked with bullet holes. In a corner of the garage, a faint stain on the concrete floor has turned the color of rust, time darkening the blood that emptied from his body._


> Sims was killed here May 25, Memorial Day weekend, a year after his discharge from the Army and thousands of miles from Iraq. He endured two tours there only to die at age 26 in his parents’ home on Kansas City’s decaying east side. The fatal shots were fired not by insurgents but by police. The distinction may have eluded his damaged mind.  During his second tour in 2010, Sims sustained a mild traumatic brain injury while riding in an armored vehicle that struck a roadside bomb. The former sergeant moved back to Kansas City from his unit’s base in Alaska in April last year, and struggling with migraines, insomnia, anxiety and depression, he visited the city’s Veterans Affairs Medical Center. His symptoms suggested post-traumatic stress disorder.
> 
> His erratic behavior made clear to Patricia and Shawn Sims that their son had left the war without the war leaving him. He swerved through traffic when driving to avoid bombs that he imagined were buried in the road. Walking the tree line near their property, he searched for enemy fighting positions and threw punches at phantom militants. He sometimes rushed into the house and announced, “You know I just saved your lives, don’t you?”  “He thought he was back in Iraq,” Patricia said, sitting in the couple’s living room, where dozens of photos on the walls and shelves trace her son’s life from newborn to soldier. A triangular wood case holds the folded American flag she received at his funeral. “It was hard to understand who he was. He wasn’t Issac.”
> 
> ...



See also:

*IG report criticizes former Wounded Warrior Care director*
_November 3, 2014 ~ The former director of the Pentagon’s Wounded Warrior Care and Transition Policy Office bullied and verbally abused employees, calling some stupid and referring to others as idiots, liars and criminals behind their backs, according to an Inspector General’s investigation._


> Philip A. Burdette — who left the position in March 2013 — also misused official time, rental vehicles, TDY schedules and expenses, and he improperly tried to use his influence on behalf of a subcontractor, according to the report, which was concluded in October 2013 but was not released until Monday, in redacted form.  The report recommended corrective action against Burdette. The Pentagon did not immediately respond to questions as to whether or what type of actions were taken in the year since the report was issued. The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reported last week that the Pentagon confirmed Burdette was transferred to the position of special adviser to the assistant secretary of defense for health affairs, where he remains.
> 
> The IG’s office received six complaints from employees during a four-month period after Burdette became director in March 2011. He was responsible for oversight of policies related to wounded, ill and injured servicemembers.  Investigators asked 10 witnesses who worked closely with Burdette to provide any positive remarks regarding his leadership and actions with subordinates.  “Many stated he had no positive leadership characteristics,” the report noted.  One witness who did not work for Burdette said that the director managed his staff “primarily by mocking and punishing subordinates.”
> 
> ...


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