# Banned for Reading Bible BEFORE Class



## Spare_change (May 3, 2017)

It’s apparently OK to read history books at Northern Arizona University, but not the Good Book.

Mark Holden, a 22-year-old history major, tells me he was ordered to leave a lecture hall after his professor objected to him reading the Bible before the start of the class.

“All the students agreed with her that assimilation is oppressive and evil.”

Holden alleges that professor Heather Martel ordered him to put away the Good Book around six minutes before a scheduled history class. It’s unclear why she objected to the reading of God’s word.

According to her biography, Professor Martel is a noted scholar who is working on an essay titled, “The Gender Amazon: Indigenous Female Masculinity in Early Modern European Representations of Contact.” She also teaches classes on Global Queer History and Feminist Theory.

When Holden declined to stop reading his Bible, the professor summoned Derek Heng, the chairman of the department. Heng then proceeded to explain the situation.

Holden recorded the conversation and turned it over to congressional candidate Kevin Cavanaugh. In turn, Cavanaugh provided me with a copy of the audio.

"So Professor Martel says that she doesn't want you sitting in front of her because you put, you know, a Bible out, right?" Heng said.

"So she doesn't want me in the front because I have my Bible out," Holden replied.

"No, I think she — I mean, well, why do you have your Bible out anyway," Heng asked.

After a bit more back and forth regarding the dynamics in the classroom, the chairman of the department got to the heart of the issue. "So, will you, will you, will you, put your Bible away?" Heng asked.

The incident occurred back in February, but just recently became public after Campus Reform reported on the controversy.

Holden had previously drawn the ire of his professor during a classroom discussion on assimilation.

"All the students agreed with her that assimilation is oppressive and evil," Holden said. "I suggested there are both positive and negative aspects to assimilation."

As an example, he referenced a report about two Muslim men in California who reportedly said the Koran justified doing terrible things to women.

"She told me I was a racist and she would not tolerate that kind of racism in the class," Holden said. "I told her Islam was not a race and I was only talking about what the two Muslim men as individuals said — I was not making broad claims about Islam or my interpretation of the Koran."

After a bit of back and forth, Holden said the professor told the class, "Welcome to Trump's new America — where straight white males can say prejudicial things without being reprimanded for it."


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## Michelle420 (May 3, 2017)

Is there a link to the article?


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## ScienceRocks (May 3, 2017)

I believe in Jesus but a child shouldn't be forced to accept religion....

It should be a personal choice outside of the school....


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## Gracie (May 3, 2017)

Is the Koran allowed in that school?


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## xband (May 3, 2017)

Spare_change said:


> It’s apparently OK to read history books at Northern Arizona University, but not the Good Book.
> 
> Mark Holden, a 22-year-old history major, tells me he was ordered to leave a lecture hall after his professor objected to him reading the Bible before the start of the class.
> 
> ...



The student must have been reading it out loud without the Professor's permission. Way back in the day before SCOTUS ruled otherwise everyone in my country grade school said the Lord's Prayer first before holding our hands over our hearts saying the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag before class started. SCOTUS ruled saying the Lord's Prayer in a public school is illegal and we had to stop.


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## aaronleland (May 3, 2017)

drifter said:


> Is there a link to the article?



One of the only links I found was to a Fox News article. They have audio of the kid discussing it with the chairman of the department, but it's only about a minute long, and conveniently stops short of the resolution. The audio was provided by some guy who is running for congress who seems to have a hard-on for North Arizona University, judging by his Facebook page which posts about nothing but NAU.

Bible reading not allowed before class, professor tells student


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## cnm (May 3, 2017)

xband said:


> The student must have been reading it out loud without the Professor's permission. Way back in the day before SCOTUS ruled otherwise everyone in my country grade school said the Lord's Prayer first before holding our hands over our hearts saying the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag before class started. SCOTUS ruled saying the Lord's Prayer in a public school is illegal and we had to stop.


Now that's what I call brainwashing.


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## Tommy Tainant (May 3, 2017)

aaronleland said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> > Is there a link to the article?
> ...


Staged protest.Fake news.Bollox.


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## Gracie (May 3, 2017)

If he was reading it before the class started, they have no right to tell him what he can do. 
This is getting ridiculous.


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## Picaro (May 3, 2017)

They also have no right to tell him he can't keep it on his desk whether class is in session or not, period.


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## Picaro (May 3, 2017)

They also have no right to tell him he can't keep it on his desk whether class is in session or not, period.


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## candycorn (May 3, 2017)

Looks like a fake news story. Happened in February???


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## aaronleland (May 3, 2017)

candycorn said:


> Looks like a fake news story. Happened in February???



And only being promoted by a conservative running for Congress who has only one minute of audio showing what happened.


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## xband (May 3, 2017)

cnm said:


> xband said:
> 
> 
> > The student must have been reading it out loud without the Professor's permission. Way back in the day before SCOTUS ruled otherwise everyone in my country grade school said the Lord's Prayer first before holding our hands over our hearts saying the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag before class started. SCOTUS ruled saying the Lord's Prayer in a public school is illegal and we had to stop.
> ...



You have to remember that was back in the day of Sputnik and Missile Gap and the height of the cold war. Sputnik was in 1957 and came to a head during the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962. My birthday is October 25 which was in the middle of the Cuban Missile Crisis and I did not know if I would see my next birthday. Everyone was glued to their TV sets.


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## Tommy Tainant (May 3, 2017)

Picaro said:


> They also have no right to tell him he can't keep it on his desk whether class is in session or not, period.


Why does he need his bible in a history class ?


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## NYcarbineer (May 3, 2017)

aaronleland said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> > Is there a link to the article?
> ...



I found this article on it on the RWish Western Journalism site

See if you get the same laugh I did:

Bible-Reading Student Has Shock Encounter With Lib Prof, Immediately Turns The Tables...


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## Skull Pilot (May 3, 2017)

Matthew said:


> I believe in Jesus but a child shouldn't be forced to accept religion....
> 
> It should be a personal choice outside of the school....


this was a university and the person reading the bible was not doing it during the lecture

if he was reading a book about white privilege nothing would have been said to him

and anyway even if he wanted to read the bible during the lecture he has the absolute right to do so it's his money paying for the class


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## Skull Pilot (May 3, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Picaro said:
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> 
> > They also have no right to tell him he can't keep it on his desk whether class is in session or not, period.
> ...



why do you care if he reads a bible on his own time?
I used to read books  before class started and even keep them on my desk during class


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## xband (May 3, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> > They also have no right to tell him he can't keep it on his desk whether class is in session or not, period.
> ...



There is a lot of real history in the Bible and a lot of fake history therefore the Bible is relevant in History Class.


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## Skull Pilot (May 3, 2017)

xband said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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> > Picaro said:
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even that does not matter since he was reading the book before class started


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## Tommy Tainant (May 3, 2017)

And the teacher asked him to put it away. He isn't a kid that should need to be told that.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using USMessageBoard.com mobile app


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## Tommy Tainant (May 3, 2017)

xband said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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Well the teacher didnt think so.


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## Skull Pilot (May 3, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> And the teacher asked him to put it away. He isn't a kid that should need to be told that.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using USMessageBoard.com mobile app



he closed the book and left it on his desk so the fuck what?
if he left a text from another class closed on his desk during class no one would have cared


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## Tommy Tainant (May 3, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > And the teacher asked him to put it away. He isn't a kid that should need to be told that.
> ...


According to who ?
It sounds like he was a trouble maker looking to be oppressed. Old enough to know better.


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## Skull Pilot (May 3, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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the teacher started the entire incident


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## xband (May 3, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> xband said:
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Did Mohammad go to the mountain or did the mountain come to Mohammad? In any event Mohammad found the mountain.


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## irosie91 (May 3, 2017)

whatever happened to PLAIN BOOK COVERS?       One need not ADVERTISE his
choice of books-----just put a plain cover on it.    I was a kid once----I read lots of
stuff in class------just open the big textbook-----and put a comic book between the
pages.    Why AGGRAVATE people?    As to the teacher who gets an ITCH  when
she sees a bible---------she got a problem-----should we care?


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## irosie91 (May 3, 2017)

xband said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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is there a point to that story?    ------what happened on the mountain?


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## xband (May 3, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> whatever happened to PLAIN BOOK COVERS?       One need not ADVERTISE his
> choice of books-----just put a plain cover on it.    I was a kid once----I read lots of
> stuff in class------just open the big textbook-----and put a comic book between the
> pages.    Why AGGRAVATE people?    As to the teacher who gets an ITCH  when
> she sees a bible---------she got a problem-----should we care?



Properly cut up a grocery store paper sack and make your own book cover the way we used to do it protecting the book with no writing on the grocery store paper cover. Not only does that protect the book from environmental damage but also nobody knows what you are reading.


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## irosie91 (May 3, 2017)

I am getting more and more INTRIGUED  by the  "bible"  incident. 
I wonder if there are other books  "LEFT OUT IN PLAIN VIEW"---of
this "teacher"   that would upset her.   
*                     Ms. HEATHER MARTEL-----please tell us which 
publications make you ITCH?-----try benadryl*


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## xband (May 3, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> xband said:
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Mohammad ascended to Heaven from the Dome of the Rock and Mohammad supposedly flew there. I don't think Mohammad flew there but his dead body was carried there. That's what I mean by History.


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## irosie91 (May 3, 2017)

xband said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > whatever happened to PLAIN BOOK COVERS?       One need not ADVERTISE his
> ...



Ahhh ....   the good old days-------first day of school I did those grocery
bag covers for all my text books------for the soft cover books-----an insertion
of stiff cardboard.       I was really good at it and used to do it for friends too.
Those brown paper bags----heavy gauge,  were TERRIFIC------rare today---
I save them like they are GOLD.    There were "store-bought"  covers available---
nice designs on them ----BUT FLIMSY


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## irosie91 (May 3, 2017)

xband said:


> irosie91 said:
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Jacob did it by LADDER--------how come muhummad got a FLYING HORSE?----
 --------is heaven "racist"?       In shariah law----dhimmis are prohibited from riding
upon horses and camels.  -------Adolf morphed that idea into prohibitions on the
use of public transport----like streetcars-------and in the south------rednecks
shoved blacks to  "the back of the bus"   ---
*SOME THINGS NEVER CHANGE*


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## xband (May 3, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> xband said:
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It gets worse than that. Burlap bags for animal feed are no longer available and if you had no clothes a burlap sack can be cut to make three holes, one for your head and two for your arms. No reason for leg holes because the burlap has already been unstitched at one end to dump the grain out for hungry farm animals. Rich women wore cotton flour sack dresses because burlap is scratchy.


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## irosie91 (May 3, 2017)

xband said:


> irosie91 said:
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life gets more and more COMPLICATED and difficult. ------the little stream
never suffered from drips because of broken washers--------and the ROCK
never went on the blink.     Smoke signals worked better than  911


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## xband (May 3, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> xband said:
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Why can't life be simple and uncomplicated?


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## gtopa1 (May 3, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Picaro said:
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> 
> > They also have no right to tell him he can't keep it on his desk whether class is in session or not, period.
> ...



Courage to face the "ordeal of stupidity". I'd need a bottle of single malt as well!!

Greg


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## gtopa1 (May 3, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> xband said:
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Veni vedi vici the mountain sorta thingy???

Greg


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## Skull Pilot (May 3, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> whatever happened to PLAIN BOOK COVERS?       One need not ADVERTISE his
> choice of books-----just put a plain cover on it.    I was a kid once----I read lots of
> stuff in class------just open the big textbook-----and put a comic book between the
> pages.    Why AGGRAVATE people?    As to the teacher who gets an ITCH  when
> she sees a bible---------she got a problem-----should we care?


why does anyone have to put a cover on a book?

The perpetually offended need to be slapped down


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## irosie91 (May 3, 2017)

gtopa1 said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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> > Picaro said:
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I hope the BANNING OF THE BIBLE-----does not fall of the radar-----
I REALLY want to know more about the characters involved.   One
cannot walk around carrying a  <gasp>  bible in Saudi Arabia either


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## irosie91 (May 3, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > whatever happened to PLAIN BOOK COVERS?       One need not ADVERTISE his
> ...



lots of people cover "naughty"   books-------it is a matter of
PROPRIETY.    Long ago-----my dad----now deceased---had occasion
to supervise a store that sold newspapers and magazines.    He noticed
that men who bought Playboy magazine------would HIDE the magazine
inside the NEW YORK TIMES------in order to pay---they would expose
only the corner showing the price------some people are very shy.    They
would leave the store with the Playboy safely tucked INSIDE the Times
newspaper.


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## JoeMoma (May 3, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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Apparently, to this LBGTish professor, the bible is a "naughty book".


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## Hugo Furst (May 3, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> > They also have no right to tell him he can't keep it on his desk whether class is in session or not, period.
> ...





Tommy Tainant said:


> Why does he need his bible in a history class ?



Need has nothing to do with it.


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## Hugo Furst (May 3, 2017)

gtopa1 said:


> irosie91 said:
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always preferred vedi vici veni myself


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## JakeStarkey (May 3, 2017)

Heather.Martel@nau.edu is her address.

If he was reading silently and quietly, she was out of line.

If he was reading out loud and disruptively, he was out of line.


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## rightwinger (May 3, 2017)

Spare_change said:


> It’s apparently OK to read history books at Northern Arizona University, but not the Good Book.
> 
> Mark Holden, a 22-year-old history major, tells me he was ordered to leave a lecture hall after his professor objected to him reading the Bible before the start of the class.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry...but the whole thing reads like fake news

If they have a tape, why can't we hear it?


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## Picaro (May 3, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> > They also have no right to tell him he can't keep it on his desk whether class is in session or not, period.
> ...



In the United States, we have religious freedom laws, in this case the 1st Amendment,Tommy, and that right extends everywhere on American soil, despite what your fellow neo-fascist Rainbow maggots here in the U.S. are trying to suppress and ban. Their temporary successes aren't anything they can impose permanently; it's just a matter of stacking the Federal benches and the Supreme Court as they did previously, and giving them a taste of their own back in their face now.


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## Picaro (May 3, 2017)

JakeStarkey said:


> Heather.Martel@nau.edu is her address.
> 
> If he was reading silently and quietly, she was out of line.
> 
> If he was reading out loud and disruptively, he was out of line.



Where does it say he reading out loud during class? According to the story class hadn't started, dumbass.


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## Divine Wind (May 3, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> And the teacher asked him to put it away. He isn't a kid that should need to be told that.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using USMessageBoard.com mobile app


1) It's college, not kindergarten.

2) He was reading before class.  It's nobody's business what he's doing in his free time.  

3) Martel is an idiot and the University is even more idiotic for hiring her.

https://arizonadailyindependent.com...aim-student-recordings-are-part-of-an-attack/
_The group met the day after Campus Reform reported on a recording of a faculty member asking a student, prior to the start of Martel’s class, to put his Bible away because the sight of a Bible made Martel uncomfortable.

Campus Reform received the recording from the Kevin Cavanaugh for Congress campaign. In it, student “Mark Holden explains the situation to History Department Chair Derek Heng, who had been called in by the instructor, Dr. Heather Martel, after Holden had refused her request that he put his Bible away.”

The Campus Reform article points out that Holden “had arrived early to his U.S. history course and, as usual, used the spare time to read his Bible, but claims that Martel had objected to the routine because she didn’t want to see a Bible in front of her.”

NAU, a state university with a less-than-sterling academic standing, has earned considerable negative publicity this year due to the antics of its less-than-top-drawer instructors like Martel.

_
#heathermartel hashtag on Twitter


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## Tilly (May 3, 2017)

Spare_change said:


> It’s apparently OK to read history books at Northern Arizona University, but not the Good Book.
> 
> Mark Holden, a 22-year-old history major, tells me he was ordered to leave a lecture hall after his professor objected to him reading the Bible before the start of the class.
> 
> ...


Seems that using the label 'straight white male' was somewhat prejudicial.


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## rightwinger (May 3, 2017)

So far, all we have is the students claim he was told not to read the Bible before class

We have no collaboration from either the professor or other students in the class confirming it. Given that the two had already had a previous altercation about his conduct in the class. it is possible the professor warned him before class and he is now claiming it was about bible reading


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## Picaro (May 3, 2017)

Fags are mentally ill, and the University put this mentally ill fetishist in a position with power showing utter disregard for the student body. The gimps that gave her that job should be fired, and she can be sent to a mental institution.


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## Tilly (May 3, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> > They also have no right to tell him he can't keep it on his desk whether class is in session or not, period.
> ...


What's it to you?


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## Tilly (May 3, 2017)

xband said:


> The student must have been reading it out loud without the Professor's permission



'Must have been"???


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## Tilly (May 3, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> And the teacher asked him to put it away. He isn't a kid that should need to be told that.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using USMessageBoard.com mobile app


Class hadn't started yet. Why should she ask him to put it away?


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## Picaro (May 3, 2017)

JoeMoma said:


> irosie91 said:
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Given what her 'community' finds as 'acceptable public behavior', the irony is over the top when these gimps run around whining about being 'offended'.


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## rightwinger (May 3, 2017)

This story stinks of....lets hear the rest of the story before we go batshit crazy

I seriously doubt a professor would object  to a student reading the bible before class
The only side we have heard is the student claiming she did

Lets hear what the professor and other students have to say


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## Tilly (May 3, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> , to put his Bible away because the sight of a Bible made Martel uncomfortable.



Lol.
How very precious.


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## Divine Wind (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> This story stinks of....lets hear the rest of the story before we go batshit crazy
> 
> I seriously doubt a professor would object  to a student reading the bible before class
> The only side we have heard is the student claiming she did
> ...


Feel free to dig up a link.  I'll wait.


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## rightwinger (May 3, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > This story stinks of....lets hear the rest of the story before we go batshit crazy
> ...



I did

I heard the incriminating tape and it does not contain the professor telling him to put away his bible. It is merely the student relaying his claim to another professor

I also read that the student had had a previous altercation with the professor not because of his political views as he claimed, but because he refused to sit down and shut up

It may have gone down as the student claims, but I get the feeling the student may be misrepresenting what actually happened before class. I'd like to hear what the professors side is. There were other students there, lets see if they support the bible claim


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## CrusaderFrank (May 3, 2017)

Matthew said:


> I believe in Jesus but a child shouldn't be forced to accept religion....
> 
> It should be a personal choice outside of the school....


He was reading to himself, how does that trigger  a Progressive?


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## Divine Wind (May 3, 2017)

Tilly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
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> > , to put his Bible away because the sight of a Bible made Martel uncomfortable.
> ...


She seems to have a bug up her ass.  As the linked article noted, this isn't the first time NAU has been in the news for less-than-stellar academic examples. 

2017 Northern Arizona University Rankings


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## Divine Wind (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> ... I'd like to hear what the professors side is. There were other students there, lets see if they support the bible claim


Awesome, me too.  Let me know when you come up with that.


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## irosie91 (May 3, 2017)

l read it too------the tape does not reveal much.     It  is  "possible"----that the student was confrontational with the Prof.  with REFERENCE TO THE BIBLE-----ie trying
to knock her views based on bible quotations-----which even I agree would put
the student in the wrong.


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## rightwinger (May 3, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > ... I'd like to hear what the professors side is. There were other students there, lets see if they support the bible claim
> ...



Bible reading not allowed before class, professor tells student

_However, I did obtain an email Martel sent to Holden warning him about “disruptive behavior.”

“For the remainder of the class, I will ask you to move to one of the desks along the wall by the door,” she wrote. “The roll sheet will be passed to you. You will make sure that students who come in late sign in. I will also require that you respect me and the other students in the class by acting in a civil manner.”

In a separate email addressed to the entire class, Martel vowed to “re-instate civility” in the classroom._



So, my take on what may be the rest of the story...

Holden had been warned about disruptive behavior and was told to take a desk along the wall by the door. The professor came into the class and found Holden seated front and center reading a bible. The professor probably told him to move to the agreed to desk at which time the student claimed he was disciplined for "reading the bible"

Lets hear what the University and professor has to say as to their version of events


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## irosie91 (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Divine.Wind said:
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that's what the student CLAIMED.       Sheeeeesh-----this story is getting
more and more idiotic


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## Tilly (May 3, 2017)

*Student Complaints Prompt Arizona Lawmaker To Question Regents’ Role*





AZ Board of Regents‏' tuition increase workshop on March 30

BY: R. ROTH MAY 2, 2017

In the wake of reports of abuse of conservative students by professors at Arizona’s public universities, Arizona lawmakers are questioning the role of the Arizona Board of Regents. On Monday, Rep. Mark Finchem called for greater accountability and oversight of the Regents and their subsequent oversight of the activities of the three state universities.

Recent reports of professorial bullying to advance ideological agendas have given several members of the House to ask if taxpayer resources are being “properly respected and funding quality higher education.”...

https://arizonadailyindependent.com...pt-arizona-lawmaker-to-question-regents-role/


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## TNHarley (May 3, 2017)

Martel - History - Northern Arizona University
IDK if I would call this fake.. If it is, this woman heather will make a shitload of cash from suing this guy...


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## bodecea (May 3, 2017)

Spare_change said:


> It’s apparently OK to read history books at Northern Arizona University, but not the Good Book.
> 
> Mark Holden, a 22-year-old history major, tells me he was ordered to leave a lecture hall after his professor objected to him reading the Bible before the start of the class.
> 
> ...


Nothing like feeling persecuted.


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## PoliticalChic (May 3, 2017)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > I believe in Jesus but a child shouldn't be forced to accept religion....
> ...






"Just because any religious idea, any idea of any god at all, any flirtation even with a god, is *the most inexpressible foulness*, particularly tolerantly (and often even favourably) accepted by the _democratic _bourgeoisie—*for that very reason it is the most dangerous* *foulness*, the most shameful “infection.” 

A million _physical _sins, dirty tricks, acts of violence and infections are much more easily discovered by the crowd, and therefore are much less *dangerous, than the nubile, spiritual idea of god, dressed up in the most attractive “ideological” costumes."* 
Letter from Lenin to Maxim Gorky, Written on November 13 or 14, 1913 Lenin 55. TO MAXIM GORKY



They've learned their lessons well, the Progressives, Liberals and other Communists.


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## Divine Wind (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> I'm sorry...but the whole thing reads like fake news
> 
> If they have a tape, why can't we hear it?


The tape was linked.  Here it is again:

AUDIO: student forced to stop reading Bible before class


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## Divine Wind (May 3, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> rightwinger said:
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The school will investigate.  Since this was six(?) minutes before class, no doubt there were many witnesses to the incident. 

If the University finds the professor blameless, they'll say so.  If they find the story correct, they'll keep it quiet citing privacy rules.


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## rightwinger (May 3, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry...but the whole thing reads like fake news
> ...



I listened to the tape and thought it would be a smoking gun of the teacher telling the student she didn't want him reading the bible. What it is ...is a tape of the student relaying his side of the story of being banned for reading a bible


My gut feeling on what really happened. The student was a disruptive student in class who had been repeatedly warned about civility. The teacher had lost control of the class and was trying to enforce measures of civility. The student had been told to occupy a desk at the rear of the classroom. So....the kid shows up to class and sits front and center and pulls out his bible. When the professor told him to take his agreed upon seat, he claimed it was because he was reading a bible not because of his previous disruptive behavior


----------



## Divine Wind (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> ...Lets hear what the University and professor has to say as to their version of events


Agreed.  Please post that when it comes out.   We certainly don't want fucking assholes prejudging others before all the facts are in, do we?  LOL


----------



## rightwinger (May 3, 2017)

An email from the professor to Holden

_However, I did obtain an email Martel sent to Holden warning him about “disruptive behavior.”

“For the remainder of the class, I will ask you to move to one of the desks along the wall by the door,” she wrote. “The roll sheet will be passed to you. You will make sure that students who come in late sign in. I will also require that you respect me and the other students in the class by acting in a civil manner.”

In a separate email addressed to the entire class, Martel vowed to “re-instate civility” in the classroom._



It appears Holden is a disruptive hothead who continually disrupts the class and is abusive towards other students. His "They won't let me read a Bible before class" is a ruse in retaliation of his being told where to sit and how to behave


----------



## Tilly (May 3, 2017)

An adult who is made so 'uncomfortable' by the sight of a bible that it must be hidden from her view, has no place in a Western University.


----------



## Tilly (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> An email from the professor to Holden
> 
> _However, I did obtain an email Martel sent to Holden warning him about “disruptive behavior.”
> 
> ...


Or maybe 'it appears' this is an example of professorial bullying of students who express opinions not shared by the progressive lecturer?


----------



## Picaro (May 3, 2017)

CrusaderFrank said:


> He was reading to himself, how does that trigger  a Progressive?



Because it wasn't a Koran.


----------



## Picaro (May 3, 2017)

TNHarley said:


> Martel - History - Northern Arizona University
> IDK if I would call this fake.. If it is, this woman heather will make a shitload of cash from suing this guy...



Just her bio is enough to make anything she says about the issue have less than zero credibility, and the student's story far more likely.


----------



## Divine Wind (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> An email from the professor to Holden
> 
> _However, I did obtain an email Martel sent to Holden warning him about “disruptive behavior.”
> 
> ...


Funny how you want to wait until the facts are in before judging then post a linkless email supposedly from Martel prejudicial of Holden.  What are you hiding? 

Let's say Holden was exactly as you say, a disruptive fucking asshole.  What does that have to do with Holden's reading material before class?  Since there were, no doubt, plenty of witnesses to this incident, I'm sure the truth will come out on who is in the wrong here.


----------



## Divine Wind (May 3, 2017)

bodecea said:


> Spare_change said:
> 
> 
> > It’s apparently OK to read history books at Northern Arizona University, but not the Good Book.
> ...


Nothing new for Protestants.


----------



## Picaro (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



The more sane people know women like this teacher are petty lunatics, and once this student outed himself as a Jew or a Christian she was going to harass him out of her class and out of the school if possible; that's how left winger and sexual deviants operated in the past and that's what they do now.


----------



## Divine Wind (May 3, 2017)

Tilly said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > An email from the professor to Holden
> ...


Agreed.  Once the full story behind the email is read, it appears Martel doesn't like being questioned:

Northern Arizona U. prof. Heather Martel orders student to stop reading Bible *before* class
_Anthony Gockowski reports for Campus Reform, April 27, 2017, that prior to the Bible incident in February, Martel had accused Holden of violating the university’s policy on disruptive classroom behavior when Holden challenged Martel’s views on cultural assimilation.

Holden told Campus Reform that he had questioned the matter of cultural assimilation by citing news reports about two Muslim immigrants who erected a sign declaring that the Koran gives them the right to commit rape.

In an email that Martel sent to Holden accusing him of disruptive classroom behavior, she claims Holden had interrupted the class multiple times and “made a scene,” only stopping after a classmate intervened. Martel wrote:

“Then you raised your hand for most of the rest of class. When I acknowledged that I saw your hand but stated we would be hearing from your classmates instead, as you had already had your input, you said in a loud voice: ‘You work for me. I pay your salary.’”

Martel then sent out a second email about the altercation, not just to Holden but to the entire class, outlining “steps to re-instate civility in the classroom” and declaring emphatically that “hate speech” would not be tolerated.

Holden told Campus Reform that he eventually withdrew from Martel’s class. Holden sees the Bible incident as Martel’s and Northern Arizona University’s restriction of his free speech, calling it “a systemic problem, not just at this university, but across the United States” because most college professors are “pushing an ideology on students and any opposition to this is refuted and slashed.” While there may be students “who want to speak up,” they don’t “feel that they can because of fear about their grades.” And it’s not just students. Conservative-leaning professors face similar concerns in relation to keeping their jobs._


----------



## irosie91 (May 3, 2017)

Picaro said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> > Martel - History - Northern Arizona University
> ...



Let's be patient------could be or ----maybe not


----------



## Tilly (May 3, 2017)

Picaro said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > He was reading to himself, how does that trigger  a Progressive?
> ...


I was wondering about that too. I doubt she'd have said a word.
 I also wonder if she'd have said 'straight black male' instead of 'straight white male' as though there is something inherently wrong with being straight, white, and male.
Clearly a straight white male reading the Bible is just too many triggers for the poor progtard.


----------



## irosie91 (May 3, 2017)

Picaro said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



good point----the MOST SELF-RIGHTEOUS people-----tend to be those
who SELF DESCRIBE  as   *SECULAR HUMANISTS.*     however ---sometimes
the  *RELIGIOUS*   pull similar crap


----------



## rightwinger (May 3, 2017)

Tilly said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > An email from the professor to Holden
> ...



That is what the student was claiming before he concocted his peaceful bible reading story

He claims he is being discriminated against for his rightwing views. The Professor claims he goes into anti-muslim hate speech and is disruptive in class and disrespectful to other students

I would like to hear what the other students in the class have to say about Mr Holden


----------



## Divine Wind (May 3, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


No human group is without their percentage of assholes.


----------



## Divine Wind (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> ...I would like to hear what the other students in the class have to say about Mr Holden


Me too.  Please post those views when you can.  After all, only a fucking dickhead prejudges an incident before all the facts are in.  Amirite, rightwinger?


----------



## Tilly (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Concocted?
Doesn't sound like you are 'waiting to hear'.


----------



## rightwinger (May 3, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



The whole "Bible Reading" thing looks like a setup to create a media backlash

Lets hear what other students have to say about Mr Holden.

Is he a quiet, sincere bible reading student or is he a fucking asshole?




.




.


----------



## Tilly (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Seems that hate speech now extends to reporting that two Muslims in the US had said that the Quran endorses poor treatment of women or something similar.  
Only to leftards does reporting what someone else said constitute hate speech.


----------



## Tilly (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Tilly said:
> ...


Maybe, but If it were a set up, I'd have thought that the recorder would already be running in anticipation of the lecturers response to him reading the Bible.


----------



## rightwinger (May 3, 2017)

Tilly said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Tilly said:
> ...



Again we are getting Holden's take on "I said, she said"


----------



## rightwinger (May 3, 2017)

Tilly said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



Maybe it was and it does not support his story


----------



## JakeStarkey (May 3, 2017)

Picaro said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Heather.Martel@nau.edu is her address.
> ...


You have trouble comprehending, do you  not.

It is not clear whether he was reading aloud or not.  That makes a difference.


----------



## Divine Wind (May 3, 2017)

Tilly said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Tilly said:
> ...


Agreed.  rightwinger is quick to judge those he opposes yet preaches waiting for facts before judging those he supports.  Is there really any wonder why he acts so hypocritically?

In this case, it appears Martel was a tyrant in the classroom and Holden was a rebellious teenager.  If Martel was a straight, white male teaching the superiority of Western civilization in history and Holden had been a black, lesbian female who interjected that ancient civilizations were all in Africa, would rightwinger flip-flop on his position about rebellious students?


----------



## JakeStarkey (May 3, 2017)

We need the whole story.

The student has every right to read his Bible silently.

He may read it aloud if it is disruptive to other class members.


----------



## Tilly (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Tilly said:
> ...


Why on earth would he be required to be a 'quiet, sincere bible reading student'? Looks as though you are endorsing the line that students who don't adhere to the lecturers ideology should be seen and not heard.
BTW, I'm sure he could be something other than either of your paltry 2 options.


----------



## Divine Wind (May 3, 2017)

Tilly said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


Agreed.  OTOH, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to learn that Holden was reading his Bible prior to class simply to annoy Martel.  So what?  Martel overreacted and now she's paying the price for it through bad publicity.   Holden's actions prior to class did not force Martel to do anything.  She should be adult enough to own up to her own actions.  All the LWLs on the planet cannot change the fact Martel is responsible for her own actions.


----------



## rightwinger (May 3, 2017)

Tilly said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Tilly said:
> ...



Once again we are only hearing Mr Holden's view of what transpired as reported to the rightwing media


----------



## Tilly (May 3, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Agreed. And if I knew an adult in her position who'd let it be known that just the sight of someone reading the bible made her 'uncomfortable' I'd be tempted to read it before class also. After all, uni supposed to be a learning environment, and I'd be keen to see what triggers her so 
Maybe whip out a Quran too.


----------



## Tilly (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Not quite. You supplied us with 'sections' of Martels emails, which could equally indicate she has a grudge against him.


----------



## Divine Wind (May 3, 2017)

JakeStarkey said:


> We need the whole story.
> 
> The student has every right to read his Bible silently.
> 
> He may read it aloud if it is disruptive to other class members.


Agreed on the whole story.  IMHO, both were acting like dicks.  However, that's expected of a 22 year old college student but not of a History Professor seeking to educate younger minds.


----------



## Divine Wind (May 3, 2017)

Tilly said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Tilly said:
> ...


Correct.  He also hid the background on those emails.


----------



## rightwinger (May 3, 2017)

Mr Holden's side of the story just doesn't seem to pass the "Does that make sense" test

The rightwing is outraged that a liberal professor would punish a student for reading the bible six minutes before class. Why would a professor do that?  Makes no sense. I could see starting class and asking someone to put their bible away....but six minutes before with him silently reading ?

What does make sense is the student had been disruptive in class and disrespectful towards other students. He had been instructed to use a desk at the rear of the classroom near the door and was now intentionally sitting front and center with his bible. He was told to move because of his previous classroom behavior and not because he was reading a bible


----------



## PoliticalChic (May 3, 2017)

bodecea said:


> Spare_change said:
> 
> 
> > It’s apparently OK to read history books at Northern Arizona University, but not the Good Book.
> ...




Is this a claim that the bullying and 'persecution' doesn't go on?

Or your version of 'snitches get stitches and wind up in ditches'?

Speak up, dolt.


----------



## Tilly (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Mr Holden's side of the story just doesn't seem to pass the "Does that make sense" test
> 
> The rightwing is outraged that a liberal professor would punish a student for reading the bible six minutes before class. Why would a professor do that?  Makes no sense. I could see starting class and asking someone to put their bible away....but six minutes before with him silently reading ?
> 
> What does make sense is the student had been disruptive in class and disrespectful towards other students. He had been instructed to use a desk at the rear of the classroom near the door and was now intentionally sitting front and center with his bible. He was told to move because of his previous classroom behavior and not because he was reading a bible


It could just as easily be that Martel dislikes the student because he challenges her, is straight, white, male, Conservative and  (shudder) Christian 
Have you been to Uni?


----------



## PoliticalChic (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Mr Holden's side of the story just doesn't seem to pass the "Does that make sense" test
> 
> The rightwing is outraged that a liberal professor would punish a student for reading the bible six minutes before class. Why would a professor do that?  Makes no sense. I could see starting class and asking someone to put their bible away....but six minutes before with him silently reading ?
> 
> What does make sense is the student had been disruptive in class and disrespectful towards other students. He had been instructed to use a desk at the rear of the classroom near the door and was now intentionally sitting front and center with his bible. He was told to move because of his previous classroom behavior and not because he was reading a bible



"Why would a professor do that?"

Because he is of the Liberal persuasion, of course.

You know that....Shirley.


----------



## bodecea (May 3, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > Spare_change said:
> ...


Did I trigger you?   Sorry.


----------



## Tilly (May 3, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



^^^teachers pet^^^^


----------



## PoliticalChic (May 3, 2017)

bodecea said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...





There is much you should be sorry for.


----------



## PoliticalChic (May 3, 2017)

Tilly said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...




...hall monitor.


----------



## JakeStarkey (May 3, 2017)

We need the whole story.

He cannot disrupt the class overtly, but silent reading should not be even considered by the prof.


----------



## Divine Wind (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> *The whole "Bible Reading" thing looks like a setup to create a media backlash*
> 
> Lets hear what other students have to say about Mr Holden.
> 
> Is he a quiet, sincere bible reading student or is he a fucking asshole?


Excellent conspiracy theory.  You win an aluminum foil beanie!






Regardless whether it was a "setup" or not, Professor Martel is responsible for her own actions.


----------



## bodecea (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


And we know how those christers like to feel persecuted.   It makes them all tingly.


----------



## Tilly (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Mr Holden's side of the story just doesn't seem to pass the "Does that make sense" test
> 
> The rightwing is outraged that a liberal professor would punish a student for reading the bible six minutes before class. Why would a professor do that?  Makes no sense. I could see starting class and asking someone to put their bible away....but six minutes before with him silently reading ?
> 
> What does make sense is the student had been disruptive in class and disrespectful towards other students. He had been instructed to use a desk at the rear of the classroom near the door and was now intentionally sitting front and center with his bible. He was told to move because of his previous classroom behavior and not because he was reading a bible


You think all uni lecturers are full of integrity and always behave correctly?
You do know they are human, right?


----------



## JakeStarkey (May 3, 2017)

We know the far left love being persecuted by the theists.


----------



## bodecea (May 3, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...


Well, not as much as I would be if I wasted my time reading your posting novels.


----------



## Divine Wind (May 3, 2017)

bodecea said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Tilly said:
> ...


It appears you get all tingly doing it.  Win-win!


----------



## Tilly (May 3, 2017)




----------



## PoliticalChic (May 3, 2017)

bodecea said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...





Well....if you ever decide to pick up a book that doesn't involve Crayolas, here is one by a Liberal, as opposed to a Fascist as you have proven to be:


----------



## Moonglow (May 3, 2017)

The left isn't killing my free speech, the cops usually do..


----------



## Skull Pilot (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> This story stinks of....lets hear the rest of the story before we go batshit crazy
> 
> I seriously doubt a professor would object  to a student reading the bible before class
> The only side we have heard is the student claiming she did
> ...


really you doubt that in today's political climate of perpetual butthurt?

where the hell have you been?


----------



## rightwinger (May 3, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Holden's side of the story just doesn't seem to pass the "Does that make sense" test
> ...



Maybe she caught him cutting and pasting


----------



## rightwinger (May 3, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > *The whole "Bible Reading" thing looks like a setup to create a media backlash*
> ...



We shall see


----------



## Tommy Tainant (May 3, 2017)

He needs to get himself a girlfriend.He will soon grow out of his aggressive and disruptive behaviour.


----------



## PoliticalChic (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




And....what is your problem with that scholarly method of presentation of material....

...aside from the fact that you aren't capable of same?


----------



## rightwinger (May 3, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> He needs to get himself a girlfriend.He will soon grow out of his aggressive and disruptive behaviour.



Yes, they can conduct bible studies together


----------



## Tommy Tainant (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > He needs to get himself a girlfriend.He will soon grow out of his aggressive and disruptive behaviour.
> ...


In the UK he would be regarded as an oddball and the other students would give him a really wide swerve.


----------



## Divine Wind (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


An excellent and highly recommended position to take.  Much better than making half-assed judgments of others before all the facts are revealed.


----------



## Tilly (May 3, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> He needs to get himself a girlfriend.He will soon grow out of his aggressive and disruptive behaviour.


What aggressive behaviour?


----------



## Tilly (May 3, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


Why?


----------



## Divine Wind (May 3, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


Do you know this from experience?


----------



## Spare_change (May 3, 2017)

drifter said:


> Is there a link to the article?



Why? Do you think I lied?


----------



## Spare_change (May 3, 2017)

Matthew said:


> I believe in Jesus but a child shouldn't be forced to accept religion....
> 
> It should be a personal choice outside of the school....


Clearly, you didn't bother to read the OP ---- the young man (child, my ass!) chose to believe, and was being threatened and harassed because he chose to exercise that belief by reading the Bible.


----------



## jillian (May 3, 2017)

Spare_change said:


> It’s apparently OK to read history books at Northern Arizona University, but not the Good Book.
> 
> Mark Holden, a 22-year-old history major, tells me he was ordered to leave a lecture hall after his professor objected to him reading the Bible before the start of the class.
> 
> ...



poor snowflake.

if someone can't spend 8 hours without their bible they should be in a parochial school.

and given that there's no link, I'm going to be it's a lie anyway.

btw, mark holden is the chief legal officer of Koch industries.

thanks for the fable.


----------



## Spare_change (May 3, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> > They also have no right to tell him he can't keep it on his desk whether class is in session or not, period.
> ...


BEFORE class .... geesh.


----------



## bodecea (May 3, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...


Ooooooo!   I guess you told me, eh?


----------



## PoliticalChic (May 3, 2017)

bodecea said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...




Why would being recognized as a Fascist upset a Liberal?


I suggested you read a book.

That scared you?


You must be a reliable Democrat voter, huh?


----------



## cnm (May 3, 2017)

xband said:


> You have to remember that was back in the day of Sputnik and Missile Gap and the height of the cold war. Sputnik was in 1957 and came to a head during the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962. My birthday is October 25 which was in the middle of the Cuban Missile Crisis and I did not know if I would see my next birthday. Everyone was glued to their TV sets.


See, the brainwashing of kids worked perfectly.


----------



## irosie91 (May 3, 2017)

cnm said:


> xband said:
> 
> 
> > You have to remember that was back in the day of Sputnik and Missile Gap and the height of the cold war. Sputnik was in 1957 and came to a head during the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962. My birthday is October 25 which was in the middle of the Cuban Missile Crisis and I did not know if I would see my next birthday. Everyone was glued to their TV sets.
> ...



I remember it well------I did not have a moment of anxiety


----------



## Spare_change (May 3, 2017)

xband said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > whatever happened to PLAIN BOOK COVERS?       One need not ADVERTISE his
> ...


You feel it necessary to conceal a Bible in order to not offend somebody if they SEE it???

Seriously????


----------



## irosie91 (May 3, 2017)

Spare_change said:


> xband said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



depends on the circumstances.   It the student in question is prone to
QUOTE FROM THE BIBLE in order to dispute whatever are the details
of the lecture of the Prof.------YES!!!    The student should quit doing that
and not stick a bible in her face.    If the student likes to read the bible in the
library or the student center or the coffee shop-----it is no one's business. 
I suspect there is more to the story than   "I was quietly reading psalms before
class"     If the bible has never used as source material by that particular
student------then no one should care


----------



## Luddly Neddite (May 3, 2017)

xband said:


> Spare_change said:
> 
> 
> > It’s apparently OK to read history books at Northern Arizona University, but not the Good Book.
> ...





And did you also repeat prayers of other religions?

Hate to point out the obvious but no one religion gets to force people to listen to their schtick. That's what church's and other tax free houses of worship are for.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com


----------



## Luddly Neddite (May 3, 2017)

xband said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Picaro said:
> ...



No, the bible is fiction but that's not the point.

Picaro yes, "they" do have the right to tell him to remove books that are not class related.

Sounds like this student was looking to start fight. Although these nutters are obnoxious, it sounds like the kid would have been within his rights to read silently until class started and put it away.

But, not enough into.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com


----------



## koshergrl (May 3, 2017)

xband said:


> Spare_change said:
> 
> 
> > It’s apparently OK to read history books at Northern Arizona University, but not the Good Book.
> ...


No, the mentally ill *educator* objected to the SIGHT of the bible. 

It's like kryptonite to mentally ill homosexuals.


----------



## koshergrl (May 3, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> whatever happened to PLAIN BOOK COVERS?       One need not ADVERTISE his
> choice of books-----just put a plain cover on it.    I was a kid once----I read lots of
> stuff in class------just open the big textbook-----and put a comic book between the
> pages.    Why AGGRAVATE people?    As to the teacher who gets an ITCH  when
> she sees a bible---------she got a problem-----should we care?


Why should we hide what we are reading?


----------



## koshergrl (May 3, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


How dare he read! Punk! Troublemaking whippersnapper!


----------



## irosie91 (May 3, 2017)

koshergrl said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > whatever happened to PLAIN BOOK COVERS?       One need not ADVERTISE his
> ...



depends on the circumstances.    I would not wave a copy of playboy around
in a church


----------



## Luddly Neddite (May 3, 2017)

NYcarbineer said:


> aaronleland said:
> 
> 
> > drifter said:
> ...




Notice how RWs always assume it's only liberals know or care about the US Constitution and the separation of church and state?


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com


----------



## koshergrl (May 3, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


A church is private property. 

And a bible isn't playboy. 

Again. Why should students have to hide the covers of the books they are reading?


----------



## irosie91 (May 3, 2017)

koshergrl said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



I described the circumstances that might annoy the prof-----why should a
person have to hide his reading material in a church?    what does  "private
property"   have to do with the issue-------if  THE PUBLIC are invited to "partake"?
A professor   CAN  throw a student who he feels is disruptive to the class ---OUT


----------



## koshergrl (May 3, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



Who gives a shit about the annoyance of a prof?
The only person disrupting the class was the professor. Toss the professor. She's worthless anyway.

And the difference between public and private in this case...yes, a church is a place where the public is *invited*, but there are certain behaviors that aren't typically encouraged. Reading porn openly would be one. 

A school is not a church. A school is a public venue, where the students PAY to be there. They are not *guests*. They are paying customers. 

And no student should ever have to hide the titles of the books he is reading from his PROFESSORS based on the fact that the professor just can't stand the sight of the books. That is the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard of, and you're an idiot for even beginning to entertain that line of thought. 

Throw the mentally ill educators in institutions, or jails, and yank federal funding from all the schools. This shit has to stop.


----------



## Vandalshandle (May 3, 2017)

The whole issue of this OP is so troubling that it may keep me awake an extra 2 to 3 minutes when I take my afternoon nap...


----------



## rightwinger (May 3, 2017)

Vandalshandle said:


> The whole issue of this OP is so troubling that it may keep me awake an extra 2 to 3 minutes when I take my afternoon nap...


Liberals gunna take away your bible!


----------



## Luddly Neddite (May 3, 2017)

It's not like RWNJs believe in eddy-muh-kay-shuns anyway.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com


----------



## irosie91 (May 3, 2017)

koshergrl said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



if anything is fucking stupid in the discussion ---it is YOU.     We do not have
sufficient information to CONCLUDE as to who, in the situation,  was being
disruptive, or rude or ANYTHING.   I have presented a POSSIBLE scenario
for which the prof would be JUSTIFIED and jettisoning the student and his
bible.    You are too FUCKING STUPID to consider that possible scenario. 
It seems you do not like the prof's  "politics"   or  "beliefs"----I have tolerated
lots of profs with whom I had ideological differences------I did not choose to
spit in their faces--------one can always drop the class


----------



## koshergrl (May 3, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



I have sufficient information. 
A mentally ill homosexual is attacking students who dare to carry a bible. The mentally ill homosexual needs to be removed from the school, and from society.


----------



## koshergrl (May 3, 2017)

Irosie gets a bit teste, doesn't she...


----------



## irosie91 (May 3, 2017)

koshergrl said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



nope----you have engaged in conjecture


----------



## irosie91 (May 3, 2017)

koshergrl said:


> Irosie gets a bit teste, doesn't she...




I have never been a   TESTIS


----------



## koshergrl (May 3, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



No I didn't. YOU did. I just said there is no way a student should be required to hide his book titles from his teachers at a college in the US. You are the one who is *conjecturing* with the *annoyance* thing and the pretense that he was *disrupting* the class, and the whole weird *playboy in church* thing. 

Stop conjecturing, you conjecturer. I conjectured absolutely nothing, you retard.


----------



## irosie91 (May 3, 2017)

koshergrl said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



wrong again-----your conjecture is that the prof.  has no acceptable reason
for jettisoning the student------In fact you seem to believe that a prof.  has no
such right


----------



## koshergrl (May 3, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



That's not conjecture, you moron.

Conjecture is when you imagine a reason exists OUTSIDE the stated information in the article, based on absolutely nothing. 

I based my opinion that the professor is a mentally ill idiot on the fact that she wigged out at the sight of a bible..which is what the article states. There is sufficient information in the article for me to know that the kid wasn't reading FROM the bible, and the kid wasn't DISRUPTING the class.The article explains the circumstances sufficiently for me to rest assured that the kid was indeed just sitting there with a bible in front of him.  

You, on the other hand, assume there must be a lot more going on that ISN'T in the article. There's no reason in that article for you to assume that, it is an unreasonable assumption based on absolutely nothing and thus...conjecture.

Get a fucking dictionary.


----------



## rightwinger (May 3, 2017)

koshergrl said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...


Poor, poor snowflake

Liberals are picking on him. Maybe the school can find him a safe space


----------



## irosie91 (May 3, 2017)

koshergrl said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



I do not believe that the PROF----"wigged"  out without some pre-existing
problem


----------



## koshergrl (May 3, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


again....an observation of fact is not conjecture. There is ample evidence of your testiness, thus it is not conjecture.


----------



## koshergrl (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


A safe place is needed to read now? In a university? Liewinger proves once again the intent of the left.. To end free speech and every other freedom, except the freedom of mentally ill homos to nut out in public.


----------



## Spare_change (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Spare_change said:
> 
> 
> > It’s apparently OK to read history books at Northern Arizona University, but not the Good Book.
> ...



Seriously?

A student is sitting in a classroom reading his Bible - the teacher interrupts him, etc.

... and you REALLY expect a tape? 

Grow the hell up. Life still goes on without a phone recording it.


----------



## Spare_change (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> This story stinks of....lets hear the rest of the story before we go batshit crazy
> 
> I seriously doubt a professor would object  to a student reading the bible before class
> The only side we have heard is the student claiming she did
> ...



You "seriously doubt" .... well, hell, that settles it. It's all a lie.


----------



## Spare_change (May 3, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


"Your gut feeling ... " Well, hell, that settles it, as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## rightwinger (May 4, 2017)

koshergrl said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Poor Snowflakes......
I can't read my bible <sob>

Conservative Pajama Boy






For God sakes Conservatives....man up!
He wouldn't have these problems if he brought his gun to class instead of a bible

Damn Sissy Boy!


----------



## rightwinger (May 4, 2017)

Spare_change said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Spare_change said:
> ...



He said he had a tape....all the tape has is him telling his story
That is what is peculiar about this story. The only evidence is from the student telling the media he was not allowed to read his bible before class


----------



## rightwinger (May 4, 2017)

Spare_change said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



My gut feeling is nobody in the class will collaborate the teacher telling him he can't read the bible

The real story seems to be the teacher telling him he needs to stop being disruptive in class


----------



## Divine Wind (May 4, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> So far, all we have is the students claim he was told not to read the Bible before class
> 
> We have no collaboration from either the professor or other students in the class confirming it. Given that the two had already had a previous altercation about his conduct in the class. it is possible the professor warned him before class and he is now claiming it was about bible reading


Even so, there's a difference between what happens in class and before class.


----------



## Divine Wind (May 4, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> ....It may have gone down as the student claims, but I get the feeling the student may be misrepresenting what actually happened before class. I'd like to hear what the professors side is. There were other students there, lets see if they support the bible claim


Could be.  Could also be the teacher doesn't like Christian white males and is petty enough to take it out on him before class.  See how that works? 

It's one thing to follow the guideline  "I think we should wait until all the facts are in before pronouncing judgement" and it's another to say it then continually judge the person whom you are politically opposed.


----------



## hadit (May 4, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> > They also have no right to tell him he can't keep it on his desk whether class is in session or not, period.
> ...


Doesn't matter.  He wants it there.  It's no different from a student reading Harry Potter before class, the teacher had no business getting in his face about it.


----------



## Divine Wind (May 4, 2017)

TNHarley said:


> Martel - History - Northern Arizona University
> IDK if I would call this fake.. If it is, this woman heather will make a shitload of cash from suing this guy...


Why would she make money suing a student?


----------



## hadit (May 4, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


That's dumb.


----------



## Divine Wind (May 4, 2017)

JakeStarkey said:


> We know the far left love being persecuted by the theists.


And, as this forum often proves, we know the far Left loves to persecute theists.


----------



## TNHarley (May 4, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> > Martel - History - Northern Arizona University
> ...


If he was making it up, then he is probably a spoiled little bitch? 
you got me.. lol


----------



## Divine Wind (May 4, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


If that speculation were true, then she would be obligated to report him for plagiarism.  Since that subject hasn't even been mentioned, and since you want to go to fantasy-land, why not make up a love triangle with a hot, large breasted coed whom both Martel and Holden are pining over?


----------



## Divine Wind (May 4, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


This isn't high school nor church.  He wasn't reading porn.   As other's have asked, would it have been different if he'd been reading the Quran?  The Communist Manifesto?  Why the conniption over a student reading a Bible _before_ class even if the only reasons he did it was to annoy a tyrannical man-hating professor of Women's Studies?


----------



## Divine Wind (May 4, 2017)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Notice how RWs always assume it's only liberals know or care about the US Constitution and the separation of church and state?


Maybe it's because LWers are always trying to shred rewrite the Constitution into their own image while RWers seek to preserve it as written?


----------



## PoliticalChic (May 4, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...




I suspect you know why the Bible is singled out.

Here, in their own words:

*1. There is no God:*
"This concept is an essential element of Marxism. As Lenin stated: "Atheism is a natural and inseparable portion of Marxism, of the theory and practice of Scientific Socialism." If God exists and is in supreme command of the universe, He possesses discretionary power, and His actions cannot always be calculated accurately in advance. The whole edifice of Marxism collapses.

When Marx and the Communists deny the existence of God, they simultaneously deny the authority of the Ten Commandments, the existence of absolute standards of right and wrong, of good and evil; and man is left on the playing fields of the universe without a referee, without a book of rules. The winning side in any conflict can decide on what rules of conduct to apply. Morality is the creation of the victor."The Schwarz Report | Essays


2. As a result of *Franklin Roosevelt's tireless efforts to make a home for communism in America,* note the following and compare it to the Progressive/Liberal/Democrat view of religion in secular America:

"Just because any religious idea, any idea of any god at all, any flirtation even with a god, is the most inexpressible foulness, particularly tolerantly (and often even favourably) accepted by the _democratic _bourgeoisie—*for that very reason it is the most dangerous* foulness, the most shameful “infection.” A million _physical_sins, dirty tricks, acts of violence and infections are much more easily discovered by the crowd, and therefore are much less *dangerous, than the nubile, spiritual idea of god, dressed up in the most attractive “ideological” costumes."* Letter from Lenin to Maxim Gorky, Written on November 13 or 14, 1913 Lenin 55. TO MAXIM GORKY

*This is the basis, the explanation, for the anti-Religion view Liberals demand being taught in government schools, and by the secular media.*


3. "Stalin remained a consistent advocate of the scientific and materialistic basis of all knowledge....Any manifestation of a challenge to the worldview of Soviet communism was met throughout with a relentless hostility."
*"The Dictators: Hitler's Germany, Stalin's Russia," by Richard Overy, p. 277
*

4. September 30, 1941, FDR claimed that there was freedom of religion in the USSR. "The claim that Stalin's Russia allowed religious freedom was the first step in a massive pro-Soviet campaign that the White House coordinated for the duration of the war."
"Caught between Roosevelt and Stalin: America's Ambassadors to Moscow," byDennis J. Dunn, p. 137


----------



## Divine Wind (May 4, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> I do not believe that the PROF----"wigged"  out without some pre-existing
> problem


Correct.  As has been pointed out before, Holden has confronted her ideas in class previously.  She had a conniption over it and sent two over-the-top emails, one private, one public, to him.  It seems to be a battle of wills.  Holden was in class, apparently not sitting where the petty tyrant told him to sit (it's college, not HS) and reading a Bible.   Martel then wigged out.   She seems unstable to me even if it's found that Holden is a dickhead.


----------



## Divine Wind (May 4, 2017)

TNHarley said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > TNHarley said:
> ...


IF he's making this up, there will be plenty of witnesses to say so.  IF he's lying, then he should be suspended, if not expelled.  However, IF Martel is the petty man-hating tyrant she's purported to be, should she be reprimanded?  Fired?  Nothing because she's a liberal lesbian lecturer?


----------



## rightwinger (May 4, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > ....It may have gone down as the student claims, but I get the feeling the student may be misrepresenting what actually happened before class. I'd like to hear what the professors side is. There were other students there, lets see if they support the bible claim
> ...



Screw him

The teacher should have knocked his teeth out and dragged him senseless from the class
The class was overbooked


----------



## irosie91 (May 4, 2017)

bullshit------even a communist college prof.  has a RIGHT to express her opinion----
you are  SUPPORTING one POV.      Would you suggest that a theology prof----FATHER MACDONALD----be stopped from supporting the concept of   DA TRINITY?


----------



## Divine Wind (May 4, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


An excellent argument.   IMHO, it's even simpler; Martel is a beotch.


----------



## Divine Wind (May 4, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Screw him
> 
> The teacher should have knocked his teeth out and dragged him senseless from the class
> The class was overbooked


Thanks for 1) another example of LW justice and 2) another example of LWers advocating violence against those with whom they disagree.  Diversity my ass.


----------



## koshergrl (May 4, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > I do not believe that the PROF----"wigged"  out without some pre-existing
> ...


of course she's unstable. Has no business on the streets period..let alone teaching.


----------



## TNHarley (May 4, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


I seriously doubt he is making it up.
What she did was pathetic and she should absolutely face some sort of punishment.


----------



## irosie91 (May 4, 2017)

you have a one-sided story


----------



## koshergrl (May 4, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> bullshit------even a communist college prof.  has a RIGHT to express her opinion----
> you are  SUPPORTING one POV.      Would you suggest that a theology prof----FATHER MACDONALD----be stopped from supporting the concept of   DA TRINITY?


shas a right to an opinion. She doesn't have the right to demand books be removed from her sight.


----------



## anotherlife (May 4, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> bullshit------even a communist college prof.  has a RIGHT to express her opinion----
> you are  SUPPORTING one POV.      Would you suggest that a theology prof----FATHER MACDONALD----be stopped from supporting the concept of   DA TRINITY?



The concept of the Holly Trinity is pure logic.  Any religion that explicitly denies it is wrong, and not a religion at all but only a con.


----------



## koshergrl (May 4, 2017)

,


irosie91 said:


> you have a one-sided story


oh look another unfounded assumption.


----------



## irosie91 (May 4, 2017)

anotherlife said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > bullshit------even a communist college prof.  has a RIGHT to express her opinion----
> ...



oh


----------



## Divine Wind (May 4, 2017)

koshergrl said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


If her reported actions are true, then I agree she shouldn't be teaching anymore than Melissa Click should be teaching.  As an American citizen, however, she is free to wear a pink pussy hat and protest men and theists in the streets all she likes.


UM curators approve new policies on faculty conduct
_The University of Missouri approved four new policies Thursday intended to address issues raised during the political storm over former faculty member Melissa Click and 2015 protests on the Columbia campus....

.....Click, a former assistant professor of communications, was dismissed from the university for incidents in which she called for “muscle” to remove photographers from the Concerned Student 1950 protest site and for screaming at Columbia police officers during a protest that blocked the 2015 Homecoming parade. Click became a political pariah, attracting harsh criticism from Republican lawmakers, and the curators went outside normal processes to fire her. Click now works at Gonzaga University.

That resulted in MU being put on probation by the American Association of University Professors for political interference in personnel decisions_.


----------



## anotherlife (May 4, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



Don't say I don't give you good advice.


----------



## Divine Wind (May 4, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Thanks again for pulling the mask off your face and revealing your true self.


----------



## Divine Wind (May 4, 2017)

anotherlife said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > bullshit------even a communist college prof.  has a RIGHT to express her opinion----
> ...


I knew Holly Trinity in college.  Nice tits!

Those who actually attended an accredited college/university know that everyone there is paying for an education.  It's not HS where young people are compelled to go.  College isn't for everyone, but those who attend and stick with it intend to complete a degree of higher education.  As such, professors hired by colleges and universities have an obligation to provide quality education.   Their job is to teach.  Many use the Socratic method.  Simply dictating and shoving their personal ideas and opinions down the throats of students isn't teaching.   Since college is done willingly, students will vote with their feet (and money) in avoiding certain professors and/or schools based.   As such, be it communism or the Trinity, it's the duty of professors to convey ideas and challenge preconceptions of students.  However, even though the professor should be allowed to express those ideas, they shouldn't be shutting down the opinions of students.   It appears that is exactly what happened with Martel and Holden.  We'll know for certain when all the facts are revealed.


----------



## irosie91 (May 4, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...




you are still drawing conclusions from a ONE SIDED story


----------



## koshergrl (May 4, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > anotherlife said:
> ...


 explain why you believe it is one sided.


----------



## irosie91 (May 4, 2017)

koshergrl said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



easy      the prof. did not testify


----------



## Divine Wind (May 4, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > anotherlife said:
> ...


Aren't you?   I'm the one simply discussing what we know, but also constantly stating "_We'll know for certain when all the facts are revealed_" or words to that effect.

If Holden is lying, the investigation will reveal it.  If Martel is a petty tyrant, then I doubt Holden is the only student who has had problems with her.

Additional evidence is from other students:  

Heather Martel at Northern Arizona University - RateMyProfessors.com  A mediocre 3.3

RateMyProfessors.com – Find and rate your professor or campus.  A lowly 3.1 where most others are 4.0 and above


----------



## Divine Wind (May 4, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


Easy to guess why, eh?  LOL

Again, this is only a few days old.  Let the school finish their investigation and interview other students.   IF Martel is in the wrong, then NAU will try to keep it quiet.  IF Holden is in the wrong, he'll be punished and that punishment will be revealed either by the university or Holden bitching about it.


----------



## koshergrl (May 4, 2017)

https://arizonadailyindependent.com...aim-student-recordings-are-part-of-an-attack/

PS....why would the "prof" testify? Was there a court appearance?

dumbass Rosie.


----------



## Tilly (May 4, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Wow. 
So you've given up your pretence of 'wait and see' and have come clean that, like so many 'tolerant' lefties, people who don't tow your line deserve to be physically assaulted, end even have their teeth knocked out. 
Nice.
Wish I could say I'm surprised.
Can you clarify exactly why he should have his teeth knocked and be rendered senseless?


----------



## koshergrl (May 4, 2017)

the school is a joke. They hire shitty fruitcake educators and pay them too much. They have a reputation, and there have been multiple complaints about this particular screwball prof.


----------



## irosie91 (May 4, 2017)

koshergrl said:


> the school is a joke. They hire shitty fruitcake educators and pay them too much. They have a reputation, and there have been multiple complaints about this particular screwball prof.



I know nothing about that school-----if may VERY WELL be a joke----so what sort of
cock sucking rejects GO THERE?


----------



## Divine Wind (May 4, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > the school is a joke. They hire shitty fruitcake educators and pay them too much. They have a reputation, and there have been multiple complaints about this particular screwball prof.
> ...


Professors and Students who couldn't cut it at ASU?   NAU is a second tier university ranked 9 out of 10 universities in Arizona.

The 30 Best Colleges in Arizona for 2017

*9 *Northern Arizona University
ranking score  *47.87* 
cost 3/5  
graduation rate* 49%* 
*Flagstaff, AZ*


----------



## PoliticalChic (May 4, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




And then  said 'Sieg Heil!"?

You're brown shirt is showing again.


----------



## rightwinger (May 4, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



The class was overbooked and he student refused to leave


----------



## rightwinger (May 4, 2017)

To date, we have only heard the students version of what happened

Gee Mom, I wasn't doing noth'n. I was sitting there reading my bible when the teacher got all upset


----------



## koshergrl (May 4, 2017)

crazy leftwingers hate it when crazy kefties


irosie91 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > the school is a joke. They hire shitty fruitcake educators and pay them too much. They have a reputation, and there have been multiple complaints about this particular screwball prof.
> ...


The kind who want to expose and eradicate the mentally ill communist pigs who are being paid to teach our children in schools that take a lot of federal funding, in grants and financial aid.


----------



## koshergrl (May 4, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Uh, no.


----------



## PoliticalChic (May 4, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




That sound that accompanies your posts....is it the heels of your jackboots clicking, or the wind whistling through your ears?


----------



## PoliticalChic (May 4, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> To date, we have only heard the students version of what happened
> 
> Gee Mom, I wasn't doing noth'n. I was sitting there reading my bible when the teacher got all upset




*"COLLEGE STUDENT SAYS HE’S BEEN SUSPENDED AFTER HE REFUSED PROF’S DEMAND TO STOMP ON JESUS SIGN*
Ryan Rotela, a junior at Florida Atlantic University (FAU), is waging a bizarre allegation against his professor, Dr. Deandre Poole.

The student is claiming that he’s been suspended from his intercultural communications class for refusing to write “JESUS” on a sheet of paper, throw it on the floor and then stomp on it — a request that the instructor apparently made.

If you’re already scratching your head, you’re not alone. The curious claim caught the attention of WPEC-TV, a South Florida CBS affiliate.

Rotela, a devout Mormon, says he refused to participate in the purported activity and told Poole that he found the request offensive.

But the situation purportedly became even more contentious a few days after the alleged paper incident occurred. After Rotela went to his professor’s supervisor to complain, he claims he was suspended from the class.

According to WPEC, here’s how the school responded to an inquiry about the situation:

“Faculty and students at academic institutions pursue knowledge and engage in open discourse. While at times the topics discussed may be sensitive, a university environment is a venue for such dialogue and debate.”

Watch the WPEC-TV show, below:
College Student Says He’s Been Suspended After He Refused Prof’s Demand to Stomp on Jesus Sign


----------



## rightwinger (May 4, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > To date, we have only heard the students version of what happened
> ...



Oh....is that all?

Not like they required him to cut and paste or something


----------



## PoliticalChic (May 4, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




Rub your face in your Fascism some more?

Sure.


Six-year-old Zachary Hood was happy at this chance to be recognized for his good reading performance. He and the other students in the first-grade class at Haines School in Medford, New Jersey, would be allowed to read a story to their classmates. Zachary initially selected Dr. Suess's The Cat in the Hat, but decided that it was too long and picked a story about Jacob and Esau from The Beginner's Bible instead. … Unfortunately teacher Grace Oliva decided the story was inappropriate, since it has based on the Bible. She would not allow Zachary to read it to the students. A Magazine of Religious Freedom


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## rightwinger (May 4, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
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The Cat in the Hat is more true than the Bible

At least it rhymes


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## PoliticalChic (May 4, 2017)

rightwinger said:


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Soooo.....why are you communists so worried about having folks read it?


“A Lewis-Palmer High School student who was told she must apologize for mentioning Jesus in a valedictorian speech or not receive a diploma…”  Monument teen appeals over Jesus graduation speech – The Denver Post


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## rightwinger (May 4, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


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Breaking News......Student kicked out of class for reading the works of FDR


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## Spare_change (May 4, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> bullshit------even a communist college prof.  has a RIGHT to express her opinion----
> you are  SUPPORTING one POV.      Would you suggest that a theology prof----FATHER MACDONALD----be stopped from supporting the concept of   DA TRINITY?



You consider supression of a student's rights to be a legitimate expression of her opinion?

Seriously?


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## Spare_change (May 4, 2017)

rightwinger said:


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The teacher's reputation, and reviews by students, would seem to put the lie to your supposition.

https://arizonadailyindependent.com...aim-student-recordings-are-part-of-an-attack/


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## Divine Wind (May 4, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> To date, we have only heard the students version of what happened
> 
> Gee Mom, I wasn't doing noth'n. I was sitting there reading my bible when the teacher got all upset


No other students have come out for or against the incident nor has Martel herself denied wrongdoing.


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## rightwinger (May 4, 2017)

Spare_change said:


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Not really, some love her, some say she is too liberal, most said she gives too much homework

My guess is Bible Boy is one of the ones who hate her. Maybe because she doesn't teach creationism


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## rightwinger (May 4, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > To date, we have only heard the students version of what happened
> ...



Outside of rightwing propaganda media, I haven't seen any story other than Bible Boys. Hasn't been any update in two days. This may be one of those stories the media just moves on from


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## Divine Wind (May 4, 2017)

rightwinger said:


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Could be.  OTOH, when people like you advocate beating such people senseless and justify draconian teaching philosophies, I think the story will remain in the news.


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## Divine Wind (May 4, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> ....My guess is Bible Boy is one of the ones who hate her. Maybe because she doesn't teach creationism


Could be true.  Do you  have any facts to back up  your opinion?

What I can prove is that you hate religious people like "Bible Boy".


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## Divine Wind (May 4, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> The class was overbooked and he student refused to leave


Another of your long list of lies.


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## Divine Wind (May 4, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
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Interesting.  So, if he'd been reading "A Cat in the Hat", you'd be screaming about his rights, but since it was the Bible, you're all about beating him senseless and dragging him out of the room.


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## irosie91 (May 7, 2017)

koshergrl said:


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## koshergrl (May 7, 2017)

The so called prof in question has had issues before.


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## irosie91 (May 7, 2017)

koshergrl said:


> The so called prof in question has had issues before.



ok-----still has an UNEXPRESSED side to the story----or a side that does not appear here


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## koshergrl (May 7, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > The so called prof in question has had issues before.
> ...


 She's a miktant, anti Christian fruitcake. Martel - History - Northern Arizona University


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## irosie91 (May 7, 2017)

koshergrl said:


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sheeeeesh!!!!      reminds me of some of the fruits I knew in college in the 60's ----
what can you expect with a name like  HEATHER------her parents were 
"PROGRESSIVES"


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## Parker99 (May 7, 2017)

Spare_change said:


> It’s apparently OK to read history books at Northern Arizona University, but not the Good Book.
> 
> Mark Holden, a 22-year-old history major, tells me he was ordered to leave a lecture hall after his professor objected to him reading the Bible before the start of the class.
> 
> ...



Can she order him to do that? Unless there some rules no religious things in class. Or no religious talk in class?

Can the class really have different rule than the college or university. Unless the college or university say no religious stuff.

I mean they are adults and lots older mature adults take 
religion in college, university or debate religion in school. I mean that is what college and university is learning things and debating things.

Makes no senses.


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## irosie91 (May 7, 2017)

Parker99 said:


> Spare_change said:
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> > It’s apparently OK to read history books at Northern Arizona University, but not the Good Book.
> ...



true----IT MAKES NO SENSE------we need more information


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## Divine Wind (May 7, 2017)

Of course we need more information.  The problem is that the University has clamped down on this.  Nothing since the Campus Reform report.


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## rightwinger (May 8, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Of course we need more information.  The problem is that the University has clamped down on this.  Nothing since the Campus Reform report.



This story has dropped off the charts....Nothing in the last week
You would think with all the bad press, the University would say something
Normally, students would be posting their accounts of the incident on facebook or twitter


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## Divine Wind (May 8, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
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> > Of course we need more information.  The problem is that the University has clamped down on this.  Nothing since the Campus Reform report.
> ...


The University can claim the incident is still under investigation even if it isn't.  Agreed it's odd the other students haven't come out to affirm or deny what happened.  

Off hand, I'd say it happened as reported, but there's more to the story.  Sure, Broom Hilda may be a biased, tyrannical queen bitch in her classroom, but Duddly Fuddpucker may be a king-sized asshole doing his best to start trouble.  In that case, it's a lose-lose for a 9th out of 10 rated University since it reflects poorly on both it's teaching staff and it's student body.


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## hadit (May 8, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> The class was overbooked and he student refused to leave





rightwinger said:


> To date, we have only heard the students version of what happened
> 
> Gee Mom, I wasn't doing noth'n. I was sitting there reading my bible when the teacher got all upset



Anyone else notice the cognitive dissonance between the two statements?


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## rightwinger (May 8, 2017)

hadit said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
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> > The class was overbooked and he student refused to leave
> ...


Whoosh!

Right over your head


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## ScienceRocks (May 8, 2017)

A person shouldn't read this kind of stuff in government schools. Period.


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## Divine Wind (May 8, 2017)

Matthew said:


> A person shouldn't read this kind of stuff in government schools. Period.


1) It's not a government school. 

2) Why are you against the First Amendment?

3)  Do you believe "We, the People" have our rights or do you believe the Constitution gives us our rights? 

4)  Do you believe the Constitution is a limitation on "We, the People" or a limitation on the Federal government?


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## Coyote (May 8, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


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Typically, in these situations - the school is not allowed to say much about it or in their defense until it's resolved.  There is no such inhibition on the student so we likely are hearing very much one side of the story.


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## Coyote (May 8, 2017)

This article has an interesting take on it: NAU President denounces harassment, but is it enough?

It also notes:
_In an email to Holden, included in the April 27 Campus Reform article, Martel provided another reason for the student’s removal.


According to the article, Martel said the student was being disruptive in class and using hate speech prior to the incident. Martel, however, declined to comment when The Lumberjack asked about the incident._​


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## Divine Wind (May 8, 2017)

Coyote said:


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Agreed, but why haven't the other students spoken up?  Nothing on Martel as a teacher, good or bad, nor about Holden as a student, good or bad.  It's as if a bunch of fucking lawyers are involved and all were slapped with a gag order by a judge.


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## Divine Wind (May 8, 2017)

Coyote said:


> This article has an interesting take on it: NAU President denounces harassment, but is it enough?
> 
> It also notes:
> _In an email to Holden, included in the April 27 Campus Reform article, Martel provided another reason for the student’s removal.
> ...


So, if they were harassed, their reaction is to harass students???


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## Spare_change (May 8, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Of course we need more information.  The problem is that the University has clamped down on this.  Nothing since the Campus Reform report.



Could it be because the University has something to hide, and they just wish the whole thing would go away? If they weren't at fault, or were interested in actively defending the professor, it would be all over the papers.


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## Spare_change (May 8, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


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Maybe because it happened BEFORE class, and there were few, to none, other students around to witness it?


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## Coyote (May 9, 2017)

Spare_change said:


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 6 min before class, there are plenty of people around


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## rightwinger (May 9, 2017)

This story seems to have dropped off the radar

It played itself out in the media for two days and they lost interest. We will probably never find out what happened


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## hadit (May 9, 2017)

Matthew said:


> A person shouldn't read this kind of stuff in government schools. Period.


Why not?  Why should a person's location forbid them from reading "this kind of stuff"?


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## Divine Wind (May 9, 2017)

Spare_change said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Of course we need more information.  The problem is that the University has clamped down on this.  Nothing since the Campus Reform report.
> ...


Most likely, IMHO, they just want it to go away because it reflects poorly on the University; tyrannical Professors and asshole students.


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## Divine Wind (May 9, 2017)

Spare_change said:


> Divine.Wind said:
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Possible, but since it happened a few minutes before class, I'm certain there were other students around to witness it.

If Holden is as smart as he thinks he is, he'd have made sure a friend or two in class was there to both witness and video the incident.


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## rightwinger (May 9, 2017)

From this morning

After professors tell student to stop reading his Bible, university launches probe - The College Fix

_Martel was unable to be reached — but her university email is now delivering an automated response to incoming messages, including the request for comment from The College Fix.

“This email account is being trolled as a part of a political campaign to harass and intimidate university professors. To my colleagues, students, and friends, I am sorry for the inconvenience. If you are trying to reach me for legitimate NAU business, please use another method for reaching me,” the response states.

“If you are reaching out to me with the intent to harass and intimidate me, cease and desist. The story in the news is a lie. The emails and voicemails I am receiving are deluded, cruel, and disgusting. I will not be reading or listening to them. They will be reviewed by law enforcement officials.”_

So, it looks like a case of "he said/she said"  With the kid saying he was banned from reading the bible and the professor claiming it is a lie

University is investigating and we will see what happens


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## irosie91 (May 9, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


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he was supposed to PREDICT?


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## Divine Wind (May 9, 2017)

irosie91 said:


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Yes. In my business it's called operational planning or "The 6 Ps"; Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

Assholes, be they professors or students, are fairly predictable.  Once you know which buttons aggravate them, then it's a simply matter to arrange to push those buttons at a certain time in order to "predict" the results.  It's important that the "buttons" be legal and justifiable in order to achieve optimal results.  

In this case, I'm guessing Holden knew Martel was a straight-white-male-and-religion hating bitch.  All he had to do was quietly read his Bible before class for her to become a raging **** to him.  Predictable.


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## irosie91 (May 9, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


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Maybe he knew something.     MAYBE  HE had been harassing her with the bible. 
Maybe he had been PROVING points by quotations from the bible----presenting
the bible as  DIVINE KNOWLEGE.    I do not doubt that buttons were being
pushed,  but I do not claim to know who was doing the pushing.    From the available information----neither do you.


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## Divine Wind (May 9, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> Divine.Wind said:
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> > irosie91 said:
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Maybe he's a MARTIAN and she's a VENUSIAN.  You KNOW those fucking assholes have hated each other for 10,000 years!

Yes, we only know what we know; she got pissed at him for reading his Bible in class and now she's whining about how she's being attacked.  Awesome.  I'm happy to await more evidence.


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## Coyote (May 9, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > This article has an interesting take on it: NAU President denounces harassment, but is it enough?
> ...



If that was what was happening and that is by no means clear...


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## Divine Wind (May 9, 2017)

Coyote said:


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Agreed.   While the University may be still investigating, the complete silence on this tempest-in-a-teapot is interesting and causes me to suspect a clampdown.  Where are the other students?  Why has Martel gone into seclusion?  Where are her defenders?


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## irosie91 (May 9, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


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not quite-----we only know that HE SAID she got pissed at him for reading
the bible before class ------he said it but did not say WHY.     You decided ---
she HATES  CHRISTIANITY


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## mgh80 (May 9, 2017)

Is this a private university (I really have no clue)?


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## irosie91 (May 9, 2017)

mgh80 said:


> Is this a private university (I really have no clue)?



University of Arizona seems like a state U.  to me------why?   What difference does
it make?


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## mgh80 (May 9, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> mgh80 said:
> 
> 
> > Is this a private university (I really have no clue)?
> ...



Private schools can do whatever they like with "banning" the bible.


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## irosie91 (May 9, 2017)

mgh80 said:


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really?    It was not  THE SCHOOL-----it was a specific teacher who----according
to the complaining student    DID NOT WANT HER STUDENT TO BE IN 
POSSESSION OF A BIBLE.      As to policy----I have no idea if a requirement of
the course was   "NO BIBLE IN CLASS"


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## mgh80 (May 9, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> mgh80 said:
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If it's a private school the students don't have the right to have whatever books they wish and a professor can absolutely tell them to put it away. I think it's dumb and probably a power trip for the professor to do, but it's still allowed.


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## irosie91 (May 9, 2017)

mgh80 said:


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even in a Public school    (I attended state schools my WHOLE education) 
a teacher can tell a student to  "get that book outta here"    Teachers
often do complain about stuff in the room-----like "GET THAT CIGGY outta
here"  (even before the general ban on cigs)    I doubt the story as told by
the student-----there was something not stated going on


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## rightwinger (May 9, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> mgh80 said:
> 
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> > irosie91 said:
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The teacher says he is lying

The student went to rightwing media with his complaint. There is no evidence


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## irosie91 (May 9, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > mgh80 said:
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oh---goody----you got a link?


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## rightwinger (May 10, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
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Post 260


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## irosie91 (May 10, 2017)

rightwinger said:


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thanks.      those kids at  U. Arizona must be DAMNED BORED


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## rightwinger (May 10, 2017)

If the professor prohibited a student from reading the bible before class.......she should be fired
If the student made it up....he should be expelled from school


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## irosie91 (May 10, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> If the professor prohibited a student from reading the bible before class.......she should be fired
> If the student made it up....he should be expelled from school



I,  very strongly,  believe that  ---it ain't so simple.    I believe that something
had been going on between this student and this teacher before she spied
<gasp>  a copy of the bible on his desk.    I am intrigued that the incident has
EXCITED  so much interest------and very ANNOYED that they do not release
the juicy tidbits


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## rightwinger (May 10, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > If the professor prohibited a student from reading the bible before class.......she should be fired
> ...



The student had been reprimanded in the past for disruptive and disrespectful classroom behavior. As a result, he had been told where to sit. So he shows up at class early and takes a seat front and center and pulls out his bible
When the Professor confronts him about sitting in the wrong place, he makes a scene and claims it is about his bible reading


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## irosie91 (May 10, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



thanks-----now we are getting somewhere------I would conjecture that the
"disruptive"  behavior somehow related to matters of religion.   (brilliant of me--
huh???)


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## rightwinger (May 10, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> rightwinger said:
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Not religion relating to his bible reading but anti-muslim rants which the professor characterized as hate speech


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## irosie91 (May 10, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> irosie91 said:
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> > rightwinger said:
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OH?     was  "muslim"   a topic in the class? -------it was a weird kind of sociology
class----right?     Sounded to me like something related to the PET PEEVES 
of a teacher who sees herself as a feminist.     Do you know the NAME of the
course?      I am too lazy to check----I seem to remember something related
to women and violence    (since eli invented the  cotton gin---??  or something
really esoteric).     I am a child of the 60s------we had lots of crap courses like
that in my school.   They made people sorta pixilated.    Teachers who did them
seemed to have -----"para-professional"   interests.     Students who took such
courses SERIOUSLY were just as nuts as the teachers


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## rightwinger (May 10, 2017)

irosie91 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
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Again confirming that the conflict was not......."She doesn't like me because I read a bible before class"


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## hadit (May 10, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
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At this point, we have the story as told from one perspective.  You're simply making up stuff to fit a narrative contrary to that perspective.  But hey, keep building that castle in the clouds.


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## rightwinger (May 10, 2017)

hadit said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



Very true....All we have is a student running to the media and whining.....I am not allowed to read the bible before class
The professor says what has been published about the incident is a lie

The past conflict between the professor and student is not made up. It is supported by an email documenting the issue


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