# "Who won the veep debate" thread



## LadyGunSlinger (Oct 11, 2012)

Martha Raddatz was awful, stepping all over Paul Ryan's statements. Joe Biden was off his meds, flailing with his hands, interrupting, repetitive, and whiny, which is what most of his base has wanted.  And Paul Ryan was calm, cool, and collected, with a better second half in the debate.


Mark Levin

The blogs are on fire as well with the same.. Old man Biden came off rude and bitter..Biden harmed the Obama campaign tonight.. He may have fired up the zombie base, but thats it.


----------



## Old Rocks (Oct 11, 2012)

LOL. In other words, Ryan didn't look all that good, and the old Pol did well.


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Oct 11, 2012)

Paul Ryan was dignified nd graceful as a VP should be. Well done Sir.


----------



## Old Rocks (Oct 11, 2012)

Ryan looked like a bugeyed evangelical preacher. Could be a model for Elmer Gantry.


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Oct 11, 2012)

Mark is right.. Old Bitter Biden was disgraceful tonight. Chris Wallace said it best, "In all of my time covering debates, I've never seen a VP more disrespectful."


----------



## Trajan (Oct 11, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> Ryan looked like a bugeyed evangelical preacher. Could be a model for Elmer Gantry.



Now I know why you like biden


----------



## Dutch (Oct 11, 2012)

Get out of the spin room. If levin is mad Biden did a good job


----------



## candycorn (Oct 11, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> Ryan looked like a bugeyed evangelical preacher. Could be a model for Elmer Gantry.



Watched the Sun Damsels and Colorado.  Glad to hear about the outcome though.


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Oct 11, 2012)

Swing voters thought Biden came off as rude.


----------



## rightwinger (Oct 11, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Martha Raddatz was awful, stepping all over Paul Ryan's statements. Joe Biden was off his meds, flailing with his hands, interrupting, repetitive, and whiny, which is what most of his base has wanted.  And Paul Ryan was calm, cool, and collected, with a better second half in the debate.
> 
> 
> Mark Levin
> ...



That's the best partisan Levin can come up with?

Clear Biden victory


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 11, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Martha Raddatz was awful, stepping all over Paul Ryan's statements. Joe Biden was off his meds, flailing with his hands, interrupting, repetitive, and whiny, which is what most of his base has wanted.  And Paul Ryan was calm, cool, and collected, with a better second half in the debate.
> 
> 
> Mark Levin
> ...



How many times did Biden whine about not getting equal time? That in the face of Biden's constant interrupting of Ryan AND the moderator!


----------



## koshergrl (Oct 11, 2012)

Women hated him.

It was notable only in that Biden was remarkably rude, and Ryan had to debate two people instead of one.

And he still nailed it.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 11, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> Ryan looked like a bugeyed evangelical preacher. Could be a model for Elmer Gantry.



That's the best you can do?
A personal attack? 
After watching Obama and Biden in their respective debates, trust me, our side has less to worry about.
All Obama and Biden need to do is keep talking. They will bury themselves.


----------



## tjvh (Oct 11, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> Ryan looked like a bugeyed evangelical preacher. Could be a model for Elmer Gantry.



As opposed to the hysterically adolescent laughing fits from an over the hill pompously rude Circus Clown who was out of uniform
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## rightwinger (Oct 11, 2012)

If the best Levin can come up with was Biden was mean to our little boy......Biden did what he set out to do


----------



## copsnrobbers (Oct 11, 2012)

LAUGHING, GRINNING, SMIRKING, INTERRUPTING, AVOIDANCE, LYING AND BABBLING ARE HARDLY A WINNING COMBINATION. <BIDEN YELLS A LOT!

As predicted this debate will have no effect on the presidential election. 
Next week matters.


----------



## The VOR (Oct 11, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Swing voters thought Biden came off as rude.


What swing voters?  Did you already do a poll with them?  LOL.


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Oct 11, 2012)

Bitterr Biden was the old angry Gramps out of control.

Swing voters just stated, NOT ONE SINGLE person changed over to Obama/Biden after this performance, NOT ONE.. Biden helped the angry zombie herd, nothing more.


----------



## Nunz (Oct 11, 2012)

This debate came across more as a job interview, with Raddatz/Biden as the interviewers.


----------



## The VOR (Oct 11, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Bitterr Biden was the old angry Gramps out of control.
> 
> Swing voters just stated, NOT ONE SINGLE person changed over to Obama/Biden after this performance, NOT ONE.. Biden helped the angry zombie herd, nothing more.


What swing voters?  Did you poll every swing voter already?


----------



## Jackson (Oct 11, 2012)

CNN just came in with poll....Ryan wins...but it was closer than the Obama Romney debate.


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Oct 11, 2012)

The VOR said:


> LadyGunSlinger said:
> 
> 
> > Bitterr Biden was the old angry Gramps out of control.
> ...



Frank Luntz did , DUMMY.Piss off Noob and STFU.. the ADULTS are having a conversation.


----------



## rdean (Oct 11, 2012)

CBS gives it to Biden 50% to Ryan's 31%.


----------



## The VOR (Oct 11, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> The VOR said:
> 
> 
> > LadyGunSlinger said:
> ...


Frank Luntz, Mark Levin...  You aren't just drinking the kool-aid, you are spooning the powder out of the container, bypassing the "mix with water" part, and just packing down your throat.


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Oct 11, 2012)

Check out TWITTER!! ROFLMAO

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82313.html

READ IT AND WEEP LIBERAL nutters


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Oct 11, 2012)

Even the liberal Washington POST:

Washington Post&#8217;s Jennifer Rubin: &#8220;Biden&#8217;s laughing is losing the debate- obnoxious&#8221;



Read more: Twitter frowns on Joe Biden's laugh - Patrick Gavin - POLITICO.com


----------



## candycorn (Oct 11, 2012)

VP Debate; not important.


----------



## rightwinger (Oct 11, 2012)

candycorn said:


> VP Debate; not important.



Agree

It will make no difference


----------



## Nunz (Oct 11, 2012)

Even if the consensus(re: substance) is one of a draw --- Biden's mental patient-like behavior is sure to hurt Obama's chances with independent/undecided voters!


----------



## CaféAuLait (Oct 11, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Check out TWITTER!! ROFLMAO
> 
> Twitter frowns on Joe Biden's laugh - Patrick Gavin - POLITICO.com
> 
> READ IT AND WEEP LIBERAL nutters



LOL



> BuzzFeeds Ben Smith: So did Biden practice laughing at Ryan???




Read more: Twitter frowns on Joe Biden's laugh - Patrick Gavin - POLITICO.com


----------



## TruthSeeker56 (Oct 11, 2012)

rdean said:


> CBS gives it to Biden 50% to Ryan's 31%.



That's amazing!

PRAVDA also gave it to Biden, 50% to 31%!


----------



## bodecea (Oct 11, 2012)

Jackson said:


> CNN just came in with poll....Ryan wins...but it was closer than the Obama Romney debate.



Suuuuure.


----------



## bodecea (Oct 11, 2012)

candycorn said:


> VP Debate; not important.



But, surprisingly lots of times the most memorable.


----------



## CaféAuLait (Oct 11, 2012)

> Former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer: &#8220;Biden is at risk of having his laugh come across like Gore&#8217;s sighs. He should knock it off.&#8221;




Read more: Twitter frowns on Joe Biden's laugh - Patrick Gavin - POLITICO.com

You know he finally stopped in the last 15 minutes or so, I wondered why he did, if his wife or someone might have gestured to him. I'm just glad he did, he came off poorly.


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Oct 11, 2012)

Chris Wallace Slams Joe Biden's Debate Demeanor - Business Insider


Bitter Biden FAILED miserably tonight and came off as a mean old rude grampy!


----------



## 2ndAmendment (Oct 11, 2012)

Ryan wins, yes, of course.   He's not a psycho like Biden.  

I'm happy those few who watched this saw the truth.  I know I enjoyed it.


----------



## kidrocks (Oct 11, 2012)

Good for Joe Biden... gotta love it!


----------



## Nunz (Oct 11, 2012)

CaféAuLait;6145035 said:
			
		

> > Former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer: Biden is at risk of having his laugh come across like Gores sighs. He should knock it off.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 The Thorazine kicked in!


----------



## RosieS (Oct 11, 2012)

I have never seen so many rightwingers this butthurt all at once.

Regards from Rosie


----------



## aaronleland (Oct 11, 2012)

Well, since Fox News said it....


----------



## The Infidel (Oct 11, 2012)

Bottom line.... If you are a liberal and want a bigger government, Biden won. He was a model liberal.

If on the other hand, you see America going the wrong direction... Ryan won.


No minds were changed. 



The line of the night in my opinion was when Ryan said they would not blame others for the next four years.... Instead they will take responsibility and they also will not try to replace our founding principles, but to re-apply our founding principles.


----------



## voltron (Oct 11, 2012)

cnn polls said ryan was favored by about 10% and one thing i noticed was that about halfway through the cocaine or whatever the vp was on started to wear off. i think someone in the audience had to of just gotten his attention, and told him he was making a fool of himself.


----------



## koshergrl (Oct 11, 2012)

I think the moderator gave him a swift kick to the shins.


----------



## Article 15 (Oct 11, 2012)

RosieS said:


> I have never seen so many rightwingers this butthurt all at once.
> 
> Regards from Rosie



You haven't seen anything yet, Rosie.

The butthurt you are seeing now pales in comparison to what we saw here after the ACA ruling, and that butthurt will be a candle to the sun after the re-election.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 11, 2012)

The VOR said:


> LadyGunSlinger said:
> 
> 
> > The VOR said:
> ...



Yes that's right. Only liberals can commission reliable polls.


----------



## lukelk (Oct 11, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Chris Wallace Slams Joe Biden's Debate Demeanor - Business Insider
> 
> 
> Bitter Biden FAILED miserably tonight and came off as a mean old rude grampy!



LADYGUNSLINGER is an opperator, this is confirmed. SHE IS SPREADING RIGHT WING LIES.


----------



## The Infidel (Oct 11, 2012)

*Proverbs 29:9*

_If a wise man contends with a foolish man,
Whether the fool rages or laughs, there is no peace._


----------



## Sherry (Oct 11, 2012)

RosieS said:


> I have never seen so many rightwingers this butthurt all at once.
> 
> Regards from Rosie



Horseshit. The right is grateful as fucking hell that Biden made an ass out of himself with his attitude...because if not for his overacting, he would most likely have been seen as the clear winner of this debate based on experience and his usual likeable and conversational tone. He did the left no favors by coming off as a jerk, and even honest people on the left aren't attempting to deny it.


----------



## Dr.House (Oct 11, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Clear Biden victory



Seems to be the theme with the 0bama fluffers....

Most thinking folks don't see it that way.....


----------



## rdean (Oct 11, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O5II0ZBCuA]Romney ties his dog to the roof of his car in an airtight kennel?! - YouTube[/ame]

Chris Wallace interviewing Mitt Romney.


----------



## Bigfoot (Oct 11, 2012)

lukelk said:


> LadyGunSlinger said:
> 
> 
> > Chris Wallace Slams Joe Biden's Debate Demeanor - Business Insider
> ...



LOL, OK, prove it. Is she like a female Bond or something? A real playa!


----------



## Jackson (Oct 11, 2012)

2ndAmendment said:


> Ryan wins, yes, of course.   He's not a psycho like Biden.
> 
> I'm happy those few who watched this saw the truth.  I know I enjoyed it.



I don't think that Biden is a psycho, but he was so pumped up for this debate that his self restraint was obviously not in tact.  He isn't known for self restraint, we know, but this was surely over the top and appeared crude, disrespectful and lacking in good judgment.

I couldn't help but think that a president is one that should be able to bring sparring Congresspeople together for the good of the country.  If this president doesn't listen to both sides of the aisle, find some common ground to build on and bring those together, he is useless.  And this man could not shut up and listen.  All he could do was talk, interrupt and appear condescending.  

Are these atributes you would want in a leader?

Ryan was just the opposite.  He was cordial, when he was constantly being interrupted, not shaken off message when being overtalked, was cool, calm and continued toi debate when smirks continued by his partner.  I commend him for that.  He was presidential material.


----------



## koshergrl (Oct 11, 2012)

Biden when he's on is pretty formiddable..he IS likeable and quick. I think he went in there with an absolute plan...to bloviate, to distract, to unnerve, to call Ryan a liar, to put out some fake stuff...

I think he main objective was to prevent Ryan from coming away a star...and I think as far as that objective goes, he did it.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 11, 2012)

It was disgraceful. It's beneath the office of the vice presidency....This isn't the WWE for christ sakes.

I thought Ryan was respectful and concern for the future of this country.


----------



## DeciduousHorns (Oct 11, 2012)

CNBC Poll has Paul Ryan winning the VP Debate: 56% to Joe Biden's 36%


----------



## tjvh (Oct 11, 2012)

rdean said:


> CBS gives it to Biden 50% to Ryan's 31%.



Nonsense.


----------



## Missourian (Oct 11, 2012)

Vice president Biden,  while attempting to appear confident and dismissive instead projected condescension rudeness and a manic superiority facade.

That tipped the scale from draw to advantage Ryan.


----------



## rdean (Oct 11, 2012)

High points.  Ryan wrote letter begging for stimulus.
Ryan made fun of Joe's "gaffes" when talking about the 47%, then Joe said, "I mean what I say about the 47% and so does Mitt Romney".


----------



## rdean (Oct 11, 2012)

Missourian said:


> Vice president Biden,  while attempting to appear confident and dismissive instead projected condescension rudeness and a manic superiority facade.
> 
> That tipped the scale from draw to advantage Ryan.



Ryan was smiling.  It's just that he has no lips.


----------



## newpolitics (Oct 11, 2012)

Jackson said:


> 2ndAmendment said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan wins, yes, of course.   He's not a psycho like Biden.
> ...



You're negative description of Biden very aptly describes Romney in the last debate, making your conclusion a form of special pleading simply because Ryan is a conservative. It is merely that fact that Biden is on the other side for you, that the same characteristics you attribute to him, don't apply to Romney only the week before, when their behavior was very similar. Special pleading...


----------



## ginscpy (Oct 11, 2012)

"Life begins  at conception"

That is so obvious - it's amazing that it needs to be pointed out.


----------



## Lakhota (Oct 11, 2012)

Actually, Ryan shit the bed about abortion.  Wait and see...


----------



## lukelk (Oct 12, 2012)

I agree Ryan really dropped the ball on that section.


----------



## ginscpy (Oct 12, 2012)

The Flat-Earth-Society denies that life begins at conception...........................................


----------



## buckeye45_73 (Oct 12, 2012)

My question is Biden supports life begins at conception, but it's ok to kill a baby? I find that a really strange position


----------



## Some Guy (Oct 12, 2012)

buckeye45_73 said:


> My question is Biden supports life begins at conception, but it's ok to kill a baby? I find that a really strange position



He basically passed that off as "i'm not assholish enough to push my views on others."  Obviously that only pertains to the issue of abortion because him and Obama have no problem pushing his views on taxation onto just about everyone who pays taxes.

Ryan could have followed up on that.  "Joe: if you believe life begins at conception, doesn't abortion purely for the purpose of not wanting a baby bother you?  Do you not consider that murder?"  That would've been awfully tough for Biden to work around.


----------



## lukelk (Oct 12, 2012)

Do we really need to post a history lesson on mittens positionS and the capital s cause he has had many


----------



## buckeye45_73 (Oct 12, 2012)

Some Guy said:


> buckeye45_73 said:
> 
> 
> > My question is Biden supports life begins at conception, but it's ok to kill a baby? I find that a really strange position
> ...


 

yeah, you're correct, I though Ryan did good, but he did leave ALOT of those follow up questions on the table....Biden believes in choice on abortion, but not on medicare, social security, taxes.....ect

so he's pro abortion


----------



## RosieS (Oct 12, 2012)

Article 15 said:


> RosieS said:
> 
> 
> > I have never seen so many rightwingers this butthurt all at once.
> ...



It will be one verrrry happy Thanksgiving this year!  Thank you, too!

Regards from Rosie


----------



## Lakhota (Oct 12, 2012)

Fox News Goes Off On Biden: 'Rude,' 'Unhinged,' 'Cranky Old Man'


----------



## buckeye45_73 (Oct 12, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> Fox News Goes Off On Biden: 'Rude,' 'Unhinged,' 'Cranky Old Man'


 
I can just see Lakhota orgasaming over hearing Joe yell and blame the Libya disaster on a video.......


----------



## ginscpy (Oct 12, 2012)

ginscpy said:


> "Life begins  at conception"
> 
> That is so obvious - it's amazing that it needs to be pointed out.



no-brainer


----------



## Cowman (Oct 12, 2012)

I never realized republicans were such prissy bitches.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

I couldn't do what Ryan did tonight. Jesus Christ...He kept cool and collective and vice presidential! 

I would of likely been spitting blood and flying over the table at this fucking kook.


----------



## Cowman (Oct 12, 2012)

Matthew said:


> I couldn't do what Ryan did tonight. Jesus Christ...He kept cool and collective and vice presidential!
> 
> I would of likely been spitting blood and flying over the table at this fucking kook.



Because you're a savage.


----------



## Noomi (Oct 12, 2012)

ginscpy said:


> "Life begins  at conception"
> 
> That is so obvious - it's amazing that it needs to be pointed out.



But personhood begins at birth, and that is what he ignores.


----------



## Politico (Oct 12, 2012)

voltron said:


> cnn polls said ryan was favored by about 10% and one thing i noticed was that about halfway through the cocaine or whatever the vp was on started to wear off. i think someone in the audience had to of just gotten his attention, and told him he was making a fool of himself.



It did look like his batteries ran down all of a sudden. In all fairness he is almost 70 and it was past his beddy bye time.


----------



## Politico (Oct 12, 2012)

buckeye45_73 said:


> My question is Biden supports life begins at conception, but it's ok to kill a baby? I find that a really strange position



That's not his complete position.


----------



## Darkwind (Oct 12, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Biden when he's on is pretty formiddable..he IS likeable and quick. I think he went in there with an absolute plan...to bloviate, to distract, to unnerve, to call Ryan a liar, to put out some fake stuff...
> 
> I think he main objective was to prevent Ryan from coming away a star...and I think as far as that objective goes, he did it.


Not really.  Biden showed why he should have his vocal cords cut from his body.

The entire debate was nothing but one Biden gaff after another....the man cannot be considered sane.


----------



## Barb (Oct 12, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> Fox News Goes Off On Biden: 'Rude,' 'Unhinged,' 'Cranky Old Man'



All things considered, that Biden didn't outright call Ryan a fucking liar indicates that charm school was a success 

Debate fact check - Salon.com 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge1lWvgdG1I]Paul Ryan and His Many Methods of Misrepresentation - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Darkwind (Oct 12, 2012)

The only LIAR I saw on the stage was Joe Biden....But then, what should one expect from an Administration that is based upon lies.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

Barb, you reds are fucking nuts. How many more millions do you have to kill? Your marxism has failed. 

GROW THE FUCK UP.


----------



## Darkwind (Oct 12, 2012)

buckeye45_73 said:


> My question is Biden supports life begins at conception, but it's ok to kill a baby? I find that a really strange position


Biden

'nuff said.


----------



## Politico (Oct 12, 2012)

Mark Levin the machine gun ranter was criticizing Biden. That's a hoot.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

*Biden was a arrogant, condescending, rude SOB, a perfect example of the ruling class.*


----------



## Barb (Oct 12, 2012)

Darkwind said:


> The only LIAR I saw on the stage was Joe Biden....But then, what should one expect from an Administration that is based upon lies.


----------



## Darkwind (Oct 12, 2012)

Barb said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > The only LIAR I saw on the stage was Joe Biden....But then, what should one expect from an Administration that is based upon lies.


Whats the matter babs?

Truth hurt?  Old Joe looked like the clown he is tonight.  Be proud of him.


----------



## Darkwind (Oct 12, 2012)

Matthew said:


> *Biden was a arrogant, condescending, rude SOB, a perfect example of the ruling class.*


Those were the highlights of his performance.


----------



## Barb (Oct 12, 2012)

Matthew said:


> *Biden was a arrogant, condescending, rude SOB, a perfect example of the ruling class.*


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

Barb said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > The only LIAR I saw on the stage was Joe Biden....But then, what should one expect from an Administration that is based upon lies.



Goddamn you marxist are a bunch of spoiled brats. YOU WANT ALL THE MONEY AND FUCK ECONOMICS. Fuck reality! 

Well, I say fuck you!


----------



## Lakhota (Oct 12, 2012)




----------



## Lakhota (Oct 12, 2012)




----------



## Barb (Oct 12, 2012)

Poor broke wind. 

There's a cream for that...


----------



## Politico (Oct 12, 2012)

Why is it most of the folks I see making fun of Ryan's hair are bald? Hmmm.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

You people don't understand 
Economics
reality of the world
or much of shit


Your understanding is limited to give me free shit and shut up!!! FUCK the innovator that works hard to make this country run.

You marxist pieces of shit make me so fucking angry.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

After that rude, discraceful proformace from BIDEN. YOU MARXIST CAN ALL GO FUCK YOURSELVES!!!

It's too fucking bad that my life is going to be ruined because of the coming collapse. Thank you the fuck a lot. Congratthefuckulations.


----------



## Barb (Oct 12, 2012)

Matthew said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> > Darkwind said:
> ...



I'm really very tired, why don't you go ahead and fuck yourself?


----------



## Lovebears65 (Oct 12, 2012)

I couldn't watch pass the time he thought 4 dead Americans was funny with that endless smirk . That fucking smirky Grin. Wish we had put your hand through the TV smack Biden's face  technology was in place right now .. LOL


----------



## Lakhota (Oct 12, 2012)

Matthew is only pretending to be that stupid.  Otherwise, he'd be wearing a straitjacket.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

I can't say what I want to say...You would go to the moderator saying I'm a fucking monster!


----------



## mudwhistle (Oct 12, 2012)

Biden was responsible for negotiations with Iraq?

Now we know how that went....

NYT: Iraq withdrawal outcome of Obama negotiating failure « Hot Air


----------



## BluePhantom (Oct 12, 2012)

Frankly it doesn't matter whether Biden or Ryan's point were better.  Biden came off as an arrogant dick.  Frankly I interpreted his reactions as childish...kind of like Chris or TM attempting to convince people that they have a point to make because they are so incredulous. Perception is reality and the perception is that Biden is an asshole.


----------



## mudwhistle (Oct 12, 2012)

BluePhantom said:


> Frankly it doesn't matter whether Biden or Ryan's point were better.  Biden came off as an arrogant dick.  Frankly I interpreted his reactions as childish...kind of like Chris or TM attempting to convince people that they have a point to make because they are so incredulous. Perception is reality and the perception is that Biden is an asshole.



Biden is a clown Obama hired to do his dirty work.


----------



## mudwhistle (Oct 12, 2012)

Biden knows his target audience......"Table pounding jackwads".

Angry old man yells at Paul Ryan for 90 minutes; Update: CNN insta-poll of undecideds shows tie; Update: Ryan wins CNN insta-poll overall, 48/44 « Hot Air


----------



## BluePhantom (Oct 12, 2012)

mudwhistle said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> > Frankly it doesn't matter whether Biden or Ryan's point were better.  Biden came off as an arrogant dick.  Frankly I interpreted his reactions as childish...kind of like Chris or TM attempting to convince people that they have a point to make because they are so incredulous. Perception is reality and the perception is that Biden is an asshole.
> ...



Frankly Biden lied his ass off as well.  Seniors haven't lost medicare advantage?  My Dad would beg to differ.  Iran doesn't have a delivery vehicle for a nuclear weapon?  Oh yeah they do.  Not one that can hit us, but they can sure as hell reach Israel and in fact it can reach southern Europe. The Shahab-3 has a range of 1,250 miles. and can be *easily *equipped with a nuclear device. The AARP endorses their medicare policy?  Really?  Interesting since they have gone on record saying "no we don't will you please stop making that claim?"

So yeah Biden's points seemed fine to those who don't have a clue what's really going on....and he made himself the king of jackassery in the process.


----------



## ginscpy (Oct 12, 2012)

ok


----------



## ilia25 (Oct 12, 2012)

buckeye45_73 said:


> My question is Biden supports life begins at conception, but it's ok to kill a baby? I find that a really strange position



A really strange position would be calling a fertilized egg a baby.

BTW, this would also turn all women taking oral contraceptives into baby killers -- pills often can't prevent the conception, so they rely on making the uterine lining inhospitable to a fertilized egg.


----------



## Lakhota (Oct 12, 2012)

Now *this* is disrespectful.  Imagine the stench...


----------



## Noomi (Oct 12, 2012)

ilia25 said:


> buckeye45_73 said:
> 
> 
> > My question is Biden supports life begins at conception, but it's ok to kill a baby? I find that a really strange position
> ...



A few States have actually tried to pass a bill saying that the fertilised egg is a person. Thankfully, they failed, but it kinda tells you how crazy some of the lifers can be.


----------



## mudwhistle (Oct 12, 2012)

BluePhantom said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > BluePhantom said:
> ...



I remembered the debate with Sarah Palin......Biden can lie with the best of them.

When Ryan was allowed to answer he had facts to refute Bidens BS. But Biden and the moderator were constantly interrupting him. 

Bidens debate was geared toward folks that don't know and don't care to know. But overall I think Ryan left a good enough impression to possibly win some people over.


----------



## BluePhantom (Oct 12, 2012)

mudwhistle said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



I tend to agree.  Ryan came with some very solid arguments and statistics backing them up.  Biden came with bullshit claims like a $5 trillion tax cut that has been so widely debunked it's amazing he even has the gall to bring it up...and a lot of huffs and puffs.  Frankly I think Ryan beat his ass, but again...those who don't realize that Iran most certainly has a delivery vehicle, the Obama administration are the ones slashing medicare, etc would probably think it was a draw at best.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

BluePhantom said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > BluePhantom said:
> ...



The only reason they think he won is because he talked over Ryan and acted like a jackass.

This is the way these people are.


----------



## Sarah G (Oct 12, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Chris Wallace Slams Joe Biden's Debate Demeanor - Business Insider
> 
> 
> Bitter Biden FAILED miserably tonight and came off as a mean old rude grampy!



Yeah, Biden did smack the kid around a little.  Ryan was forced to keep the lies to a minimum though, Biden was all over him.  I like debates like that.


----------



## Sarah G (Oct 12, 2012)

mudwhistle said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



I don't think he won anybody over, Muddie, Ryan just did no harm.  Joe needed to come out swinging, bring up certain points that were left out of the first debate and put this in the win column.  We couldn't let this come to a draw.

Joe did good.


----------



## BallsBrunswick (Oct 12, 2012)

It's interesting to me that the issues aren't being talked about and the republican focus has been to whine about Biden's debate style. Especially given Romney's style in the first debate. I think it's been back and forth all election season with both sides getting an edge here and there. But in my mind, Biden iced this debate on the Afghanistan issue. That was a clear home run for him and the Democrats.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

Big difference between Romneys debate and Bidens.

Romney allowed Obama to speak and followed  him with a reply. It was more or less a discussion.
Biden just wouldn't let Ryan say anything.

How the fuck can you say what you're saying??? Are you people sane?


----------



## BallsBrunswick (Oct 12, 2012)

Matthew said:


> Big difference between Romneys debate and Bidens.
> 
> Romney allowed Obama to speak and followed  him with a reply. It was more or less a discussion.
> Biden just wouldn't let Ryan say anything.
> ...



Romney bullied 25% more talking time and wouldn't shut the fuck up in his debate.
Biden and Ryan had nearly equal talking time.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > Big difference between Romneys debate and Bidens.
> ...



At least Romney let Obama talk. Obama couldn't defend his failures.

Biden talked over and laughed like a little bitch!


----------



## BallsBrunswick (Oct 12, 2012)

Matthew said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...



Again, they had nearly equal talk time and Biden only laughed at Ryan when he was spewing bullshit and talked back so the moderator didn't steam roll him. This is hilarious that Republican supporters have completely 180ed in a week.


----------



## Sarah G (Oct 12, 2012)

Matthew said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...



Ha!  That won't happen again.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > BallsBrunswick said:
> ...



Romney/Obama was a debate that was more of a discussion. What Biden did to Ryan was disrespectful and beneath the office.

I guess you're not a serious person. Most democrats aren't as they think only of themselves. Look at southern europe and the violent protest to see this.


----------



## BallsBrunswick (Oct 12, 2012)

Matthew said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...



If Ryan can't handle what Biden brought tonight, why support him?

What the hell are you talking about?


----------



## Sarah G (Oct 12, 2012)

Matthew said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...



It was really Romney lying and talking nonstop.  Obama let him continue unfettered, if Obama lets that happen again, I won't even vote for him.


----------



## BallsBrunswick (Oct 12, 2012)

I like how when Matthew loses a debate he cries like a bitch and gives negative rep like a bitch.


----------



## Interpol (Oct 12, 2012)

You can always tell which side lost the debate: they always go after their opponent's "demeanor".


----------



## LoneLaugher (Oct 12, 2012)

Fucking Ryan deserves no respect. The dude is a fucking liar.

Joe needed to control the stage and he did. Sure, he overplayed the mocking a bit.....but there was no way he was going to let Ryan have a free bullshit ride like Romney got last week. 

Nutters sure can whine.


----------



## bripat9643 (Oct 12, 2012)

Politico said:


> Levin the machine gun ranter criticizing Biden. That's a hoot.



Levin's rants are right on target.  Biden is a buffoon and a thug.


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Oct 12, 2012)

LoneLaugher said:


> Fucking Ryan deserves no respect. The dude is a fucking liar.
> 
> Joe needed to control the stage and he did. Sure, he overplayed the mocking a bit.....but there was no way he was going to let Ryan have a free bullshit ride like Romney got last week.
> 
> Nutters sure can whine.



^^^^^ This is a leftist. In their world, if you don't think as they do then you don't deserve any respect. They will mock you, insult you, scream at you-- they are "ENTITLED" to treat others this way, THE PARTY OF SO CALLED TOLERANCE" in their looney mindset.

All the polls show Bitter Biden took a beating for his disrespect. It was beneath his office and a shameful display of schoolyard bullying. You liberals will never get it.. You can't. You're insane, literally.


----------



## Ravi (Oct 12, 2012)

RosieS said:


> I have never seen so many rightwingers this butthurt all at once.
> 
> Regards from Rosie



We should take up a collection and send Ryan a box of tissues. Those ones that are gentle on the nose.


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Oct 12, 2012)

Looking at all the polls this morning, BITTER BIDEN lost. Americans don't like rude jerks and that's what he was and how he came off. Only in LEFTIST land where as one liberal put it, "Ryan doesn't deserve any f***ing respect," does treating another human being so rudely equate to some kind of a warped win. The INTOLERANT LEFT- "If you don't think like us, you don't deserve any respect."


----------



## Claudette (Oct 12, 2012)

copsnrobbers said:


> LAUGHING, GRINNING, SMIRKING, INTERRUPTING, AVOIDANCE, LYING AND BABBLING ARE HARDLY A WINNING COMBINATION. <BIDEN YELLS A LOT!
> 
> As predicted this debate will have no effect on the presidential election.
> Next week matters.



Bingo.

Biden was rude, constantly interrupting Ryan, his hand jestures and smirks and eye rolls were worthy of an Academy Award. Jesus. 

Ryan didn't interrupt Bidden. Let him have his say. To bad Biden didn't show Ryan the same courtesy.

Biden looked like a fool and Ryan lookes like patience personified.


----------



## Claudette (Oct 12, 2012)

voltron said:


> cnn polls said ryan was favored by about 10% and one thing i noticed was that about halfway through the cocaine or whatever the vp was on started to wear off. i think someone in the audience had to of just gotten his attention, and told him he was making a fool of himself.



Yup. He made a complete fool of himself what with all the smirks, hand gestures and eye rolls. Guy should be in Hollywood.

Ryan came off as patience personified and a gentlemen. 

Can't say the same for OL'Joe.


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Oct 12, 2012)

Claudette said:


> voltron said:
> 
> 
> > cnn polls said ryan was favored by about 10% and one thing i noticed was that about halfway through the cocaine or whatever the vp was on started to wear off. i think someone in the audience had to of just gotten his attention, and told him he was making a fool of himself.
> ...



You know what's even more amusing? Listening to the Leftist Zombie Squad not getting it.. 

It's what every single News Organization is talking about.. BITTER BIDEN.. 

It's too good! Polls showing Ryan won..

Paul Ryan, digniified and clearly a gentleman.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

Biden Bombed
 Weekly Standard ^ | October 12, 2012 | Fred Barnes 

Biden Bombed | The Weekly Standard



> You dont win a nationally televised debate by being rude and obnoxious. You dont win by interrupting your opponent time after time after time or by being a blowhard. You dont win with facial expressions, especially smirks or fake laughs, or by pretending to be utterly exasperated with what your opponent is saying.
> 
> Thats why Vice President Joe Biden didnt win the one and only debate last night with his Republican rival, Mitt Romneys running mate Paul Ryan.
> 
> ...


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

*&#8220;If you read the transcript, I think it&#8217;s dead even. If you heard it on radio, Biden won. If you watched it on television, he lost.&#8221;*





Krauthammer Nails the Outcome of the VP Debate in One Simple Statement | Video | TheBlaze.com


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

Ryan made a strong case....Biden just pushed a lot of fluff.


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Oct 12, 2012)

Bitter Biden disrespected his office last night in a BIZARRE way.. It got so bad, I couldn't watch it any longer. I came in to my office and started blogging.. What I found is that just about everyone but Looney Libs were saying the same exact thing. Independents were turned off COMPLETELY by Bitter Biden. He made a complete ass of himself and will long be rememberd for his CIRCUS SIDESHOW performance.


----------



## Claudette (Oct 12, 2012)

I guess they must be desperate as Joe was rude to the max last night. 

Ryan came across as a gentlemen and patience personified while Joe ranted and raved. 

Joe looked more like a screaming 2yr old than a VP.


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Oct 12, 2012)

Joe Biden will forever be recalled and rememberd for his CIRCUS SIDESHOW performance. It was beneath the dignity of his office.


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

Matthew said:


> Ryan made a strong case....Biden just pushed a lot of fluff.




I defer to Ryan's inexperience on the national debate level.  Biden assumed the role that Romney did in the 1st debate albeit more disrespectful.

I'd say that Krrauthhammer did nail it.  

*Facts aside and that is not something to brush off *but the uninformed idiot watching this would come away thinking Biden won.  To those of us here who follow this each day, we know Biden had no record to speak of so he had to be condescending as to look superior.

Ryan did fail in one respect...no specifics again.  To me, I get it but.... knowing he was going to get called on no specifics... he should have had a token few to toss out there to knock Biden off his game...he did not come armed with them.


I see it as as draw with Biden being rude and condescending.

What the American voters will see... will unfold in the next few days.


All just my opinion.


----------



## Mr. Shaman (Oct 12, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> *Krauthammer was able to sum up the debate with one simple statement:*


Not surprising.....seeing-as-how *Teabaggers prefer* singular, "simple" statements.



> *Fact-Checking The Debate*
> ....By the *MSM*


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

LAUGHING AT THE ISSUES: THIS NEW AD ATTACKING BIDEN&#8217;S DEBATE PERFORMANCE IS ABSOLUTELY BRUTAL


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=EoAIGfcoE7o


----------



## masquerade (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm thinking the Obama administration is hoping that most people listened to it on the radio.    Yeah, right.

Love Charles Krauthammer and once again I think he's right on the money with his assessment of last night's debate.


----------



## Mr. Shaman (Oct 12, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Bitter Biden disrespected his office last night in a BIZARRE way.. It got so bad, I couldn't watch it any longer.


Too-many _big words_, no doubt.

​


----------



## Mr. Shaman (Oct 12, 2012)

Claudette said:


> I guess they must be desperate as Joe was rude to the max last night.



*i.e.* Little Paulie is too-inexperienced to roll with *The Big Boys*.​


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

Mr. Shaman said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > *Krauthammer was able to sum up the debate with one simple statement:*
> ...




I know you're too ignorant to realize it as well as immature but when you post moronic comments as you consistently do...to serious posts...you don't do yourself any favors.  We already know that you're an asshole.  You don't have to put it on display each and every post and day.

Here's another tip jerkoff...most people don't read your posts because of the ridiculous way you format them.  No one is interested in searching for your idiocy in the middle of a page.  You dilute your "moronism".


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

AceofSpadesHQ headline:

&#8220;Ryan Wins CNN&#8217;s Poll of Undecided Likely Voters, 48-44%
 Also Wins on Likability, Ryan 53% Biden 43% &#8220;


----------



## Mr. Shaman (Oct 12, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> Mr. Shaman said:
> 
> 
> > beretta304 said:
> ...



*The FACTS* are too-far, over your head, to consider, huh?

Whatta shame.....


----------



## Mac1958 (Oct 12, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> If you read the transcript, I think its dead even. If you heard it on radio, Biden won. If you watched it on television, he lost.




Yup, that's exactly the vibe I got from the limited time I saw the debate.  Many people said the same thing about the Kennedy/Nixon debate.  I don't know if Biden's behavior was some kind of "strategy" or if he just went off the rails.  Weird.

.


----------



## mudwhistle (Oct 12, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Claudette said:
> 
> 
> > voltron said:
> ...



It's like the empty chair and Big Bird the left tried to capitalize on but instead being a joke on them........

Laughing at the Issues - YouTube


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

Mac1958 said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > &#8220;If you read the transcript, I think it&#8217;s dead even. If you heard it on radio, Biden won. If you watched it on television, he lost.&#8221;
> ...




*"Mr Vice-President I defer to your debate experience and the fact that you're an elder statesman, however it is inappropiate, condescending and plain rude not only to this debate forum and it's moderator but to the Americian people as well, to laugh at the seriousness of the issues facing those hurting by yours and soon to be former President Obama's policies"*


Had Ryan said something along those lines he would not only have delievered a knockout punch and likely forced Biden to gaffe...he would have stopped it in its' tracks.

The problem is as Ryan was replying he probabay didn't realize the extent of Biden's antics.


----------



## Sarah G (Oct 12, 2012)

Ravi said:


> RosieS said:
> 
> 
> > I have never seen so many rightwingers this butthurt all at once.
> ...



Biden is so mean.


----------



## Sarah G (Oct 12, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> I like how when Matthew loses a debate he cries like a bitch and gives negative rep like a bitch.



Good thing he doesn't have that much.


----------



## Mac1958 (Oct 12, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> > beretta304 said:
> ...




Yeah, exactly.  Ryan was usually looking at the "moderator" (cough) when Biden was giggling, from what I saw.  I don't think he saw a quarter of the smirks, unless he saw Biden's teeth out of the corner of his eye.

.


----------



## mudwhistle (Oct 12, 2012)

Some of the tweets about Joe Biden laughing:



Vice President Joe Biden and Rep. Paul Ryan were the two candidates on stage at Thursdays vice presidential debate, but a third character emerged: Joe Bidens laugh, which didnt escape the notice of tweeting politicos. (And led, of course, to at least three satirical Twitter accounts: Laughing Joe Biden, Biden Smirk, and yet another Laughing Joe Biden.)

*Weekly Standards Mark Hemingway:* Joe Bidens laughing through talking about Iran sanctions?


*TIMEs Michael Scherer:* Not sure debate cameras have been light tested for Bidens teeth. Best to watch with sunglasses.

*Washington Examiners Philip Klein:* Bidens strategy seems to be to laugh at Ryan constantly. Will it work to infantalize Ryan, or backfire like Gore sighing?



*NBCs David Gregory:* Bidens smile is out of control.

*BuzzFeeds Ben Smith:* So did Biden practice laughing at Ryan???



*ABCs Rick Klein:* Biden on verge of breaking down in laughter when Ryan talks.

*Former Eric Cantor staffer Brad Dayspring:* Joe Biden needs to realize this isnt a Senate Foreign Relations Hearing. His laughter and condescending attitude is a disaster.


*Radio host Neal Boortz*: Looking like Bidens gameplan is to laugh his way through this.

*Townhall.coms Guy Benson:* Will Biden laugh his ass off at the terrible economy, too?



*MSNBCs S.E. Cupp:* Biden needs to laugh a little less through the Libya, Middle East, nuclear Iran segment.

*Washington Posts Chris Cillizza:* Ok. I have decided. I find the Biden smile slightly unsettling.


*PBS Jeff Greenfield:* Biden has always had a smile that at times is really, really inappropriate.

*Washington Examiners Paul Bedard:* Cant tell yet if Bidens smirking, laughs, eye-rolling, head shaking, works for him or not against the oh-so-young looking eager Ryan.

*Former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer:* Biden is at risk of having his laugh come across like Gores sighs. He should knock it off.

*The New York Times Ashley Parker:* Bidens grin is Chesire Cat caliber.

*Republican strategist Ron Bonjean*: Biden laughing does not come off with the intended effect. It is actually hurting him. Looks very condescending.

*Movie critic Roger Ebert:* Joe! Stop smiling and laughing!

*Washington Times Emily Miller:* Biden laughing when he disagrees with Ryan is so annoying. Like a child in time out.

*Washington Posts Jennifer Rubin:* Bidens laughing is losing the debate- obnoxious

*Comedy Centrals Indecision:* If this keeps up much longer, Joe Bidens going to sprain his laugh muscles.​
Twitter frowns on Joe Biden's laugh - Patrick Gavin - POLITICO.com


We should expect more from our leaders.......let the Dems expect less.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

&#8220;At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child &#8211; miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats.&#8221; 

- P.J. O'Rourke


----------



## ba1614 (Oct 12, 2012)

Matthew said:


> I couldn't do what Ryan did tonight. Jesus Christ...He kept cool and collective and vice presidential!
> 
> I would of likely been spitting blood and flying over the table at this fucking kook.



Precisely why I know better than to get into politics lol


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Chris Wallace Slams Joe Biden's Debate Demeanor - Business Insider
> 
> 
> Bitter Biden FAILED miserably tonight and came off as a mean old rude grampy!



That tells me Biden won the debate...


----------



## Mac1958 (Oct 12, 2012)

.

There's no excuse for rude behavior like that from a public official, let alone the Vice President of the United States during a debate at such a critical time in our history.  Biden did a very good job on the issues, but he was rude and disrespectful, and only a hardcore partisan ideologue would defend or celebrate it.  Just another example of how far we've sunk.

.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2012)

Ryan lost the debate the minute Biden pointed out that he wrote two letters trying to grab stimulus funds for his district...  

Ryan just stood there like a stuffed poodle.


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

Claudette said:


> I guess they must be desperate as Joe was rude to the max last night.
> 
> Ryan came across as a gentlemen and patience personified while Joe ranted and raved.
> 
> Joe looked more like a screaming 2yr old than a VP.





_*"Joe looked more like a screaming 2yr old than a VP."*_



You don't know how much that resembles the posters from the left that post here.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2012)

Mac1958 said:


> .
> 
> There's no excuse for rude behavior like that from a public official, let alone the Vice President of the United States during a debate at such a critical time in our history.  Biden did a very good job on the issues, but he was rude and disrespectful, and only a hardcore partisan ideologue would defend or celebrate it.  Just another example of how far we've sunk.
> 
> .



  Biden did exactly what Obama should have done in the first debate- call these charlatans on their bullshit.  

Ryan tried to use Ambassador Steven's coffin as a soap box, Biden pointed out that Ryan had cut embassy security that the White House had asked for. 

Ryan tried to claim that the Adminstration watered down sanctions against Iran, Biden pointed out that we got sanctions the rest of the world is going along with and it's wrecked Iran's economy.  

Ryan tried to run down the stimulus, Biden pointed out he was grabbing that money for his district hand over fist.


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

Mac1958 said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > Mac1958 said:
> ...



It's safe to say that people saw what they wanted to see.  If you like Biden then you thought he won.  If you dislike Biden then you toss it to Ryan.

Personally I thought Ryan should have been more aggressive and perhaps equally rude.  Notice Raddatz kept cutting off Ryan and he would stop talking...at the same time she just let Biden ramble.


----------



## gallantwarrior (Oct 12, 2012)

Darkwind said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Biden when he's on is pretty formiddable..he IS likeable and quick. I think he went in there with an absolute plan...to bloviate, to distract, to unnerve, to call Ryan a liar, to put out some fake stuff...
> ...



He serves his purpose, he's obama's best life insurance policy.


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

Mac1958 said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > If you read the transcript, I think its dead even. If you heard it on radio, Biden won. If you watched it on television, he lost.
> ...




Tom Brokaw,.."Biden shouldn't have been laughing during a discussion of thermo-nuclear war with Iran".


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

Ryan put real stuff on the table. 

Plans to fix 
-SSI
-Reduce debt
-Grow jobs
-How to handle the middle east

Truth is SSI needs to be fixed, jobs need to be grown and the debt needs to be reduced.

He did this all being calm and vice presidential about it. 

The truth is Biden acted like a jack ass. Most of it was fluff...I'll admit even with the attitude he wasn't blown away like Romney did to Obama. You can see this in the CNN likeability part of the official poll; 53% for Ryan to 43% for Biden. This tells you all you need to understand. 

People are sick and tired of this shit. Most of that 10% difference are moderates!  I'll guess.


----------



## Mac1958 (Oct 12, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> > .
> ...




I think I'm just expecting too much from politicians.  Mature, civil behavior went out the window a long time ago, and I'm just out of sync with this stuff.  

.


----------



## mudwhistle (Oct 12, 2012)

Joe Biden showed us exactly what's wrong with Washington.

It's why nothing will ever be accomplished that benefits everyone rather than special interest groups.


----------



## midcan5 (Oct 12, 2012)

Under today's political climate Biden did what was necessary. Bravo. 


"A surefire politics of change would necessarily involve getting people in the middle &#8212; from the 30th to the 70th percentile &#8212; to see their own economic self-interest. If they vote in their own self-interest, they&#8217;ll elect people who are likely to be more aligned with people with lower incomes as well as with them. As long as people in the middle identify more with people on the top than with those on the bottom, we are doomed. The obscene amount of money flowing into the electoral process makes things harder yet."  Peter Edelman http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opinion/sunday/why-cant-we-end-poverty-in-america.html


----------



## Mac1958 (Oct 12, 2012)

mudwhistle said:


> Joe Biden showed us exactly what's wrong with Washington.
> 
> It's why nothing will ever be accomplished that benefits everyone rather than special interest groups.




Yep.

Sadly.

.


----------



## gallantwarrior (Oct 12, 2012)

midcan5 said:


> Under today's political climate Biden did what was necessary. Bravo.
> 
> 
> "A surefire politics of change would necessarily involve getting people in the middle  from the 30th to the 70th percentile  to see their own economic self-interest. If they vote in their own self-interest, theyll elect people who are likely to be more aligned with people with lower incomes as well as with them. As long as people in the middle identify more with people on the top than with those on the bottom, we are doomed. The obscene amount of money flowing into the electoral process makes things harder yet."  Peter Edelman http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opinion/sunday/why-cant-we-end-poverty-in-america.html



Exactly why is it necessary to be a hysterically giggling, asinine, unbelievably rude boob?


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2012)

Mac1958 said:


> [
> 
> 
> I think I'm just expecting too much from politicians.  Mature, civil behavior went out the window a long time ago, and I'm just out of sync with this stuff.
> ...



You should probably read the transcrpits of the Lincoln Douglas debates... They made what happened last night seem like a Tea Party. And, no, not that kind of TEA Party. 

Look, Obama tried to do the "civil debate' thing, and frankly, everyone jumped all over him for it. The Left for him not being aggressive enough, and the right for him just being Obama. 

I don't mind seeing a little fire. I don't mind seeing both sides called on their bullshit.


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

Matthew said:


> Ryan put real stuff on the table.
> 
> Plans to fix
> -SSI
> ...



I'd agree with your assessment but I would have to argue that Ryan still did not get specific enough.  In fact, Raddatz even asked him twice to be specific.  


I admit Obama says nothing specific about anything but the one thing Obama has done is to paint the Ryan-Romney ticket as not specific and neither of them have grabbed that ball and ran with it.

Last night was Ryan, the numbers guy, chance to toss a few speciifics out there and like I mentioned... throw Biden off his game...Ryan wasted that opportunity.



With a stellar performance on par with Romney's...Ryan could literally have put this way.  Now the momentum has shifted back to Obama thanks to the lamestream media who will portray Biden as the winner.  They already are.  It's even again.


----------



## Mac1958 (Oct 12, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> It's safe to see that people saw what they wanted to see.  If you like Biden then you thought he won.  If you dislike Biden then you toss it to Ryan.




Bingo.  I haven't seen a comment yet here in which a supporter of one guy didn't think his guy won.  Predictably.

I just don't like that behavior, regardless of whether the guy has a (D) or an (R) after his name.  And I have no doubt, none, that the Dems would be complaining nice and loud had it been Ryan acting that way.

Just more intellectual dishonesty, yawn.

.


----------



## skookerasbil (Oct 12, 2012)

...........plus Bidens whopper on the security requests puts it on a tee for Romney next Tuesday. A big old pumpkin on a tee!!!


----------



## mudwhistle (Oct 12, 2012)

midcan5 said:


> Under today's political climate Biden did what was necessary. Bravo.
> 
> 
> "A surefire politics of change would necessarily involve getting people in the middle  from the 30th to the 70th percentile  to see their own economic self-interest. If they vote in their own self-interest, theyll elect people who are likely to be more aligned with people with lower incomes as well as with them. As long as people in the middle identify more with people on the top than with those on the bottom, we are doomed. The obscene amount of money flowing into the electoral process makes things harder yet."  Peter Edelman http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opinion/sunday/why-cant-we-end-poverty-in-america.html



Only a partisan liked what Biden did. 

Independents were appalled.


----------



## bripat9643 (Oct 12, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Ryan lost the debate the minute Biden pointed out that he wrote two letters trying to grab stimulus funds for his district...
> 
> Ryan just stood there like a stuffed poodle.



Ryan lost the debate only in libturd LA-LA land.  When the federal government has a pot of money to hand out, any Congressman who doesn't try to get a fair share for his district is guilty of dereliction of duty.  That isn't hypocrisy any more than voting Republican is hypocritical if you are collecting Social Security.  Ever liberal moron believes that anyone who doesn't support Democrat socialist spending boondoggles isn't entitled to receive the benefits.  That's a Stalinist conception of government, and supporting it is the sure sign that you're a moron.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2012)

bripat9643 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan lost the debate the minute Biden pointed out that he wrote two letters trying to grab stimulus funds for his district...
> ...



No, sorry, guy, it is hypocrisy. 

If you think the government spends too much, you don't try to grab some of that money like someone on a game show.  

I've said, I think that we need to reduce spending and increase taxes to get the debt under control.  And we need to spend more efficiently.  

But when phonies like Ryan rush out there and try to grab stuff for his district, instead of maybe where the money might do some good, then he's part of the hypocrisy.


----------



## bripat9643 (Oct 12, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Once again, Joe proves he's just an ignorant blowhard that doesn't know jack.



JoeB131 said:


> Look, Obama tried to do the "civil debate' thing, and frankly, everyone jumped all over him for it. The Left for him not being aggressive enough, and the right for him just being Obama.



Obama lost because he can't run on his record.  The facts all run against him.  It has nothing to do with being "aggressive."  That's purely a libturd meme.



JoeB131 said:


> I don't mind seeing a little fire. I don't mind seeing both sides called on their bullshit.



So "fire" is the libturd euphemism meaning you're an obnoxious rude asshole?


----------



## Newby (Oct 12, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Biden when he's on is pretty formiddable..he IS likeable and quick. I think he went in there with an absolute plan...to bloviate, to distract, to unnerve, to call Ryan a liar, to put out some fake stuff...
> 
> I think he main objective was to prevent Ryan from coming away a star...and I think as far as that objective goes, he did it.



I don't know, his objective could have been to cause Ryan to lose his cool and embarass himself, so if that was the goal, he didn't achieve it.  For someone to stay as cool and on topic as Ryan did without reacting to either Biden's antics or his 80 some interuptions, really says a lot about Ryan's character in my opinion.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2012)

> So "fire" is the libturd euphemism meaning you're an obnoxious rude asshole?




Well, you seem to be on "fire" all the time, Bripat... 

Or maybe you're just a "flamer".  That would explain much.


----------



## mudwhistle (Oct 12, 2012)

bripat9643 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Mac1958 said:
> ...



If you remember Obama tried the aggressive approach from the outset and it wasn't working. Eventually he realized the futility of is so he resorted to smirking and dropping his head.


----------



## bripat9643 (Oct 12, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Wrong, asshole.  The idea that any Congressman who voted against the stimulus is a hypocrite for trying to get some of the funds is only credible among the morons who inhabit liberal LA-LA land.



JoeB131 said:


> If you think the government spends too much, you don't try to grab some of that money like someone on a game show.



Yes you do.  The money was already allocated.  All that remained was to determine where it would be spent, not if it would be spent.  Obama and the Dems created a game show, and anyone who declined to play would end up with nothing.



JoeB131 said:


> I've said, I think that we need to reduce spending and increase taxes to get the debt under control.  And we need to spend more efficiently.



However, you always vote for all the hosebags who make the spending of drunken sailors look responsible and frugal.

Who do you think you're fooling?



JoeB131 said:


> but when phonies like Ryan rush out there and try to grab stuff for his district, instead of maybe where the money might do some good, then he's part of the hypocrisy.



Oh, right, Obama and Biden are responsible "fiscal conservatives."

Who do you think you're fooling?


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2012)

mudwhistle said:


> If you remember Obama tried the aggressive approach from the outset and it wasn't working. Eventually he realized the futility of is so he resorted to smirking and dropping his head.



No, he really didn't.  

He actually acted too much like a College Professor trying to discuss theory and history, and not take out a phony for what he was.  

And you had a moderator who let the Weird Mormon Robot run roughshod over him.  

But judging by the amount of knuckle-dragger butthurt here this morning, I'd say Biden did his job well.


----------



## bripat9643 (Oct 12, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> > So "fire" is the libturd euphemism meaning you're an obnoxious rude asshole?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And you're miss congeniality?

I'm not running for POTUS of VPOTUS.  I participate in this forum precisely because I can say what I think.  I don't have to sugar coat it so morons like you will vote for me.


----------



## Article 15 (Oct 12, 2012)

This is really just more proof that the right are a bunch of pussies who can dish it out but can't take it.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2012)

bripat9643 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > > So "fire" is the libturd euphemism meaning you're an obnoxious rude asshole?
> ...



If you come at me with a thoughtful argument, I give you one back in return. 

If you come up to me with any ridiculous words like "Communist", "Marxist", "Maoist", etc... I treat you with the ridicule and scorn you have coming.  

Biden did exactly what he was supposed to do.  He challenged Ryan's assertations and pointed out his numbers and facts didn't add up.  

And at the end of the night, Ryan looked small.


----------



## Mac1958 (Oct 12, 2012)

Article 15 said:


> This is really just more proof that the right are a bunch of pussies who can dish it out but can't take it.




If the situation were reversed, it would be the left whining.

Neither end of the spectrum has, or deserves, any credibility.

.


----------



## Seawytch (Oct 12, 2012)

BluePhantom said:


> Frankly Biden lied his ass off as well.  Seniors haven't lost medicare advantage?  My Dad would beg to differ.



He didn't say that Medicare Advantage isn't gone, it is. Medicare Advantage was a program where we overpaid private insurers to provide coverage. The care Seniors receive has not changed as a result and, in fact, has been expanded. 



> Iran doesn't have a delivery vehicle for a nuclear weapon?  Oh yeah they do.  Not one that can hit us, but they can sure as hell reach Israel and in fact it can reach southern Europe. The Shahab-3 has a range of 1,250 miles. and can be *easily *equipped with a nuclear device.



_Iran did not restart its civilian nuclear program again until February 2007, a year before Obama took office. As for Ryan's claim Iran has enough material for five bombs, it's complicated, but an ISIS report in March, shows that Iran could conceivably achieve that. However, the conservative estimate is that there's enough material for one to three. And the "fissile material" Ryan refers to has not been enriched to the levels needed to become a nuclear weapon. ISIS concludes that the likelihood of Iran attempting to enrich the material to the levels needed now is low because it would be detected and ensure a military strike, and that current sanctions are working.

From the ISIS report:

"Without past negotiated outcomes, international pressure, sanctions, and intelligence operations, Iran would likely have nuclear weapons by now. Iran has proven vulnerable to international pressure. It now faces several inhibitions against building nuclear weapons, not least of which is fear of a military strike by Israel and perhaps others if it ?breaks out? by egregiously violating its commitments under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) and moves to produce highly enriched uranium (HEU) for nuclear weapons."_ 
Fact Checking the Vice Presidential Debate



> The AARP endorses their medicare policy?  Really?  Interesting since they have gone on record saying "no we don't will you please stop making that claim?"



Yes, they do. 

_AARP is pleased that the Supreme Court found the critically important provisions of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) to be constitutional. This landmark legislation is already improving the health and financial security of our members and all Americans._
AARP Responds to Supreme Court Ruling on the Affordable Care Act

_AARP supported passage of the Affordable Care Act because the law contains numerous protections that benefit our members, their families and other Americans age 50 and over, for whom the lack of health insurance coverage  or affordable coverage  is a serious challenge.

By starting to close the coverage gap known as the "doughnut hole," 5.3 million people with Medicare Part D have saved $3.7 billion since the law was enacted. In the first five months of 2012, 745,000 people with Medicare saved a total of $485.3 million on prescription drugs in the doughnut hole for an average of $651 in savings per person this year. Over 32.5 million Americans in Medicare used one or more free preventive services in 2011. And, over 2.2 million people with traditional Medicare benefited from the new Annual Wellness Visit in 2011._

Where AARP Stands
The Affordable Care Act


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Oct 12, 2012)

Obama adjusted Joe's meds and sent him out to attack to see how it would play, Joe mentioned 47% like 100 times, so Obama will likely do the same in the next shellacking he gets from Romney called the debate


----------



## Seawytch (Oct 12, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> > .
> ...



Yes, he did do what the President should have done by calling out the lies, but he also did go too far. He over compensated.


----------



## Article 15 (Oct 12, 2012)

Mac1958 said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> > This is really just more proof that the right are a bunch of pussies who can dish it out but can't take it.
> ...



Yes, I get it.  You're opinion is the only one that matters.

All hail the great Mac.


----------



## Mac1958 (Oct 12, 2012)

Article 15 said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Article 15 said:
> ...




Funny, I'd say the same about you.

Fortunately, the ends of the spectrum are the minority.  There are far more of me than there are of you.

And you deny the left would be whining if the situation were reversed?  Really, go ahead, let's hear it.

.


----------



## Seawytch (Oct 12, 2012)

midcan5 said:


> Under today's political climate Biden did what was necessary. Bravo.
> 
> 
> "A surefire politics of change would necessarily involve getting people in the middle  from the 30th to the 70th percentile  to see their own economic self-interest. If they vote in their own self-interest, theyll elect people who are likely to be more aligned with people with lower incomes as well as with them. As long as people in the middle identify more with people on the top than with those on the bottom, we are doomed. The obscene amount of money flowing into the electoral process makes things harder yet."  Peter Edelman http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opinion/sunday/why-cant-we-end-poverty-in-america.html



You're probably right...I just wish it wasn't necessary...that the political climate isn't what it is. I really don't want to be British Parliament. I prefer a little decorum. 

I mean, if we are going to go this way, why not just make it a fucking episode of "VP Survivor" and make them eat goddamn bugs.


----------



## Article 15 (Oct 12, 2012)

Mac1958 said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Mac1958 said:
> ...



What's hilarious is that you still think that I reside at an end of the spectrum.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2012)

Seawytch said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Mac1958 said:
> ...



Well, hate to disagree with you, but how can you not like a Joe B who goes a little over the top sometimes? 

Yeah, he went a lot farther, but he also harkened back to an earlier time when the Vice President was supposed to be the "bad cop" to the President's "Good Cop".  Veep debates started become too sedate around 1996 or so.


----------



## copsnrobbers (Oct 12, 2012)

Biden's show was distasteful.. He continuously interrupted Ryan. 
Why? So the truth or secure plans wouldn't be heard.

Typical Left.


----------



## Nole (Oct 12, 2012)

> Biden called out Ryan; "You sent me 2 letters asking for stimulus money"...priceless





BUSTED! Ryan clearly was a bit taken back and had to admit he did ask for federal bail out funds. The truth hurts some times dont it Neo-cons.


----------



## hazlnut (Oct 12, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Chris Wallace Slams Joe Biden's Debate Demeanor - Business Insider
> 
> 
> Bitter Biden FAILED miserably tonight and came off as a mean old rude grampy!



Fat Cowboy chick is in love....


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 12, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan made a strong case....Biden just pushed a lot of fluff.
> ...



No specifics from Ryan...but you 'get' it? What is it you 'get'? The reason Ryan and Romney give no specifics is because what they are selling is toxic for the middle class and the poor. IF Ryan were to be specific, and tell the truth, THEN you would 'get' it. But it would not win an election.

Romney did a great impression of a Democrat, where are all the RINO catcalls?

Joe Biden reminded me of ole Harry Truman, who said: "I never gave anybody hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell."


----------



## paulitician (Oct 12, 2012)

Well, this Debate was rigged from the get-go. That being said, Biden was obnoxious. Ryan was clearly the more classy respectable Candidate. And that goes a long way with people. I'm sure most of the MSM has given this one to Biden, but the silent majority will give it to Ryan.


----------



## hazlnut (Oct 12, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Martha Raddatz was awful, stepping all over Paul Ryan's statements. Joe Biden was off his meds, flailing with his hands, interrupting, repetitive, and whiny, which is what most of his base has wanted.  And Paul Ryan was calm, cool, and collected, with a better second half in the debate.
> 
> 
> Mark Levin
> ...



Get your vibrator out cowgirl trash chick and go to town, baby!!


----------



## tinydancer (Oct 12, 2012)

Mr. Shaman said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > *Krauthammer was able to sum up the debate with one simple statement:*
> ...



Heinz? Are you a moderator here as well Heinz? I should have given you out early. Why do you lie like this?


----------



## iamwhatiseem (Oct 12, 2012)

*  IMHO - this was a strategy gone wrong.*
After Obama did so poorly, with the main reason being he simply didn't engage his opponent and looked defeated from the get-go   - they NEEDED Biden to be aggressive, assertive and make Ryan look like the amateur. Instead, Biden came across as flippant, frivolous and acting like an imp between laughing constantly and berating the moderator when challenged.


----------



## zeke (Oct 12, 2012)

copsnrobbers said:


> Biden's show was distasteful.. He continuously interrupted Ryan.
> Why? So the truth or secure plans wouldn't be heard.
> 
> Typical Left.




I guess you thought Biden was gonna come out and lay down like Obama did? You know. Just let Lyin Ryan run right over him. And now you are upset that Biden didn't do what you wanted. Too bad.

When a rethugs lips are moving, they are lying. Don't think Obama will let Mittens get by with that bull shit again. And Biden wasn't having any of that lying shit in his debate.

Though I do think Joes smile was a little weird. Ole crazy Joe.


----------



## 007 (Oct 12, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Bitter Biden disrespected his office last night in a BIZARRE way.. It got so bad, I couldn't watch it any longer. I came in to my office and started blogging.. What I found is that just about everyone but Looney Libs were saying the same exact thing. Independents were turned off COMPLETELY by Bitter Biden. He made a complete ass of himself and will long be rememberd for his CIRCUS SIDESHOW performance.



No doubt, I did the same thing. I turned the channel, because I thought to myself, if I was Ryan, I'd bitch slap that disrespectful old fool right off his lying chair. But what that did last night was once again, highlight how arrogant, mouthy, condescending, foolish, lying and classless leftists are. Biden is nothing more than a BIG FUCKING MOUTH. I give Ryan major points for sitting there like a gentleman and staying on message in the presence of such a POMPOUS, big mouth, BUBBLE HEAD.


----------



## Nole (Oct 12, 2012)

this is what I took from the debate, honestly. Ill also tie in Romney's superb performance in here as well.

Ryan was clearly out of his league at moments. However, he did hold his own in many cases, and thats saying a lot. However, I think Biden clearly had the upper hand as Ryan just kept trotting ot the old and tired Neo-con talking point. Which were basically shown to be a fraud when Iran came up. Ryan sounded like Bush and his cronies Pryor to Iraq. Biden jumped on that knowi9ng Americans are war weary and for good reason. 

The Romney tie in is simple, he clearly out preformed Obama because he left most of the neo-con talking points at home and came out as a centrist, which I think he is. 


Romenys ticket as a shot of winning if they leave the Neo-con play book at home, I think its really that simple.


----------



## Mac1958 (Oct 12, 2012)

.

I'd love to know if the smiling and laughing and smirking were planned, a "strategy".

Alas, we'll probably never know.

.


----------



## paulitician (Oct 12, 2012)

It was a very distasteful performance by Biden. Ryan expressed calm & dignity. He was clearly the better man.


----------



## Nole (Oct 12, 2012)

I dont think Biden smiled or interrupted any more than Romney did. Its a moot point really. Has to make one wonder why FOX news is pushing this talking point as if Biden was misbehaved. Romney did the same and both came out as the clear victor, if there is a such thing in a debate.


----------



## Mr. Shaman (Oct 12, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Martha Raddatz was *awful*, stepping all over Paul Ryan's statements.









"*They* were *PICKIN'*-on-me!!!! *I'M* gonna start a *WAR!!*"​


----------



## 007 (Oct 12, 2012)

Nole said:


> > Biden called out Ryan; "You sent me 2 letters asking for stimulus money"...priceless
> 
> 
> 
> BUSTED! Ryan clearly was a bit taken back and had to admit he did ask for federal bail out funds. The truth hurts some times dont it Neo-cons.



Bull shit. When the liberals rammed it through regardless of republicans, Ryan asked for scholarship money for college. If the leftists are going to throw money away on unions and dead end green jobs, Ryan tried to at least save something for a good reason.

Try again.


----------



## iamwhatiseem (Oct 12, 2012)

Mac1958 said:


> .
> 
> I'd love to know if the smiling and laughing and smirking were planned, a "strategy".
> 
> ...



Not a chance...in the first 10 minutes or so - Biden was looking better than Ryan. Ryan had that weird half-smirk on his face...and Biden did the grin-chuckle thing in check...but then for whatever reason Biden basically lost his composure an started laughing..and continued to do so for the rest of the debate. 
What I take issue the most with, was his treatment of the moderator when she challenged his answers. He interrupted her, and scolded her with fingers pointing - that looked unprofessional and disrespectful.


----------



## Nole (Oct 12, 2012)

> Ryan tried to at least save something for a good reason.



huh? federal funds are just that FEDERAL FUNDS. no matter what the purpose, Ryan asked for federal funds and had to own that fact. sort of goes against most of what Ryan says he stands for. 

Also, Biden had Ryan defending his votes under Bush II, which was brilliant. We must not forget that hot mess that was 8 years of Bush, Rayns voting record will remind us exactly where Ryan stands. 

you cant worm your way out of these facts Republicans. Maybe with the fox news crowd but not men like me over seas defending our nation. lol, I have skin in the game and tend to notice these things,.


----------



## paulitician (Oct 12, 2012)

Lets be honest, this Debate was rigged right from the start. Ryan got screwed bigtime on this one. The Moderator was a disgrace. The Dear Leader attending her Wedding? But all in all, Ryan did fine. Biden came off as an obnoxious old jerk. Ryan stayed calm and cool. He'll get much respect from most for that. He was taken seriously, while Biden was not.


----------



## copsnrobbers (Oct 12, 2012)

copied and pasted..






When asked for a one-word description of Vice President Joe Biden, more people use negative words like &#8220;idiot&#8221; and &#8220;buffoon&#8221; than positive words, according to a new Pew Research Center and the Washington Post poll.

Of those polled, 38 percent used a negative one-word term when describing Joe Biden while only 23 percent used positive words.

&#8220;Idiot,&#8221; &#8220;incompetent&#8221; and &#8220;clown&#8221; were the top negative words used to describe Biden. &#8220;Good&#8221; and &#8220;honest&#8221; were the most common adjectives used to describe him.

However, 39 percent of those polled used neutral terms when giving one-word descriptions of Biden, with words like &#8220;vice presidential&#8221; among the most common.

Republicans were the most likely to sum up the vice president in a negative light, with 63 percent doing so and only 7 percent describing Biden favorably.

As the poll notes, &#8220;There are wide partisan differences in one-word impressions of Biden, but even Democrats are not highly positive about the vice president. As many Democrats use neutral words as positive words to describe Biden (47% vs. 45%).&#8221;

Independents also weren&#8217;t so kind to Biden either, with 42 percent using negative words to describe him and only 18 percent using positive ones.

Pew and the Washington Post released a similar poll last week about Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan, and found that people were more positive than negative when describing him, though nearly as many people use negative terms to describe Ryan as use positive ones.

The most frequent responses people gave when asked to give one-word descriptions about Ryan were &#8220;conservative,&#8221; &#8220;intelligent,&#8221; &#8220;good,&#8221; &#8220;unknown,&#8221; and &#8220;young.&#8221;

In contrast, Joe Biden was often described as &#8220;old.&#8221;

Read more: Poll: Joe Biden described as 'idiot' and 'buffoon' | The Daily Caller


----------



## paulitician (Oct 12, 2012)

Ryan stayed classy. Biden did not.


----------



## Seawytch (Oct 12, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Oh, I didn't say I didn't like it.  I quite enjoyed quite a few of the Biden moments...like when he called Ryan out for panning the stimulus in public, but then begging for the money later. 

I just don't want to see our politics devolving into a free for all brawl is all. Biden over-smirked.


----------



## FJO (Oct 12, 2012)

This debate reminded me of the Seinfeld episode, when Elaine told Jerry that maybe there is more to Newman than meets the eye, and Jerry replied: "No, there is less!"

Certainly, there is much less to Joe Biden than meets the eye. But still a bit more than his boss.


----------



## mudwhistle (Oct 12, 2012)

Article 15 said:


> This is really just more proof that the right are a bunch of pussies who can dish it out but can't take it.



Thanks for the input FArt. 

As Joe Biden would say; "That's a load of......stuff!"


----------



## FJO (Oct 12, 2012)

mudwhistle said:


> Some of the tweets about Joe Biden laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Excellent research, mudwhistle!

Thanks!


----------



## NYcarbineer (Oct 12, 2012)

Waaaaaaaa..........

When Ryan becomes a person who deserves respect, maybe then he'll get some.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 12, 2012)

Ryan had slightly on points, Biden did what he needed to do: call out GOP discrepancies.

No one is going to run away with this campaign unless either Romney or Obama pull an Obama next week.


----------



## rightwinger (Oct 12, 2012)

zeke said:


> copsnrobbers said:
> 
> 
> > Biden's show was distasteful.. He continuously interrupted Ryan.
> ...



Biden hit back and he hit back hard. He did not let any Ryan claim go unchallenged

Mission accomplished


----------



## NYcarbineer (Oct 12, 2012)

I predicted that every conservative idiot here would say that Ryan won even if he lost.

He lost.  They came through, on cue.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

If Biden would of let Ryan talk and waited his turn. I think he would of won...

That and acted serious.


----------



## blastoff (Oct 12, 2012)

What's the majority of the buzz about today?  How Biden acted, not what he said.  Game, set, match for Ryan.


----------



## masquerade (Oct 12, 2012)

Anyone could have predicted that every liberal idiot here would say that Obama won the first debate even though he lost.


----------



## Liberal (Oct 12, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Bitter Biden disrespected his office last night in a BIZARRE way.. It got so bad, I couldn't watch it any longer. I came in to my office and started blogging.. What I found is that just about everyone but Looney Libs were saying the same exact thing. Independents were turned off COMPLETELY by Bitter Biden. He made a complete ass of himself and will long be rememberd for his CIRCUS SIDESHOW performance.



Here comes LGS with her tiny sampling of people on her "blog" as a good metric for how the debate went....

Ryan lost, go get your guns and bibles, start holding them closer.


----------



## bodecea (Oct 12, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Martha Raddatz was awful, stepping all over Paul Ryan's statements. Joe Biden was off his meds, flailing with his hands, interrupting, repetitive, and whiny, which is what most of his base has wanted.  And Paul Ryan was calm, cool, and collected, with a better second half in the debate.
> 
> 
> Mark Levin
> ...



Extremely Ironic for Levin to say that.


----------



## hazlnut (Oct 12, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Paul Ryan was dignified nd graceful as a VP should be. Well done Sir.




Ryan was a lying sack of shit.


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

Mac1958 said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > It's safe to see that people saw what they wanted to see.  If you like Biden then you thought he won.  If you dislike Biden then you toss it to Ryan.
> ...



Agreed. I'd go as far as to say nothing gained, nothing lost on either side.


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

Nole said:


> > Biden called out Ryan; "You sent me 2 letters asking for stimulus money"...priceless
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It's what he's elected to do for his constituents whether he likes it or not.  Ron Paul has admitted to doing the same thing.


----------



## paulitician (Oct 12, 2012)

The dumbed-down "IN YOUR FACE!"/"YOU GOT PWNED!" crowd will obviously claim a Biden victory. But what do ya expect from them? Biden came off as a cheezy hack, while Ryan came off as a classy honorable man. And decent common sense thinking people know that.


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

Bfgrn said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...



I get what you miss. First there are so specifics from either side going forward. Second, many candidates give a general outline of what they plan to do.  Should Romney and Ryan put out a 1,000 page document to the voters?  How many will bother to read it let alone understand it.  

As far as your other partisan nonsense...see me after the election.  I clearly favor Romney.  As to what's toxic...we have been bathed in toxicity by Obama...I'd rather drain the battub water and try some fresh water from Romney and see how it goes.  Simple and clear enough for you?


----------



## paulitician (Oct 12, 2012)

Nice Moderator they had there. The Dear Leader attended her Wedding? Yikes! Yeah, this was clearly a rig-job from the start. And Biden was a cheezy hack. Ryan stayed calm & cool. He was the obvious winner.


----------



## Katzndogz (Oct 12, 2012)

Biden came off an obnoxious drunk.   His debate strategy was clear.   Interrupt, and run out Ryan's time, Radditz then called "time".   The Biden giggle is going to go down right along side the Gore sigh.    Biden did not do the democrats any good.


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

Nole said:


> this is what I took from the debate, honestly. Ill also tie in Romney's superb performance in here as well.
> 
> Ryan was clearly out of his league at moments. However, he did hold his own in many cases, and thats saying a lot. However, I think Biden clearly had the upper hand as Ryan just kept trotting ot the old and tired Neo-con talking point. Which were basically shown to be a fraud when Iran came up. Ryan sounded like Bush and his cronies Pryor to Iraq. Biden jumped on that knowi9ng Americans are war weary and for good reason.
> 
> ...




I'd agree in part but lose the neo-con bullshit.  One minute the left says Romney is a moderate if not left of center and the next minute they are calling him a neo-con.


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

NYcarbineer said:


> I predicted that every conservative idiot here would say that Ryan won even if he lost.
> 
> He lost.  They came through, on cue.




The only idiot is always and once again you.  Many "conservatives" aren't saying either won.

Take a course in reading comprehension.  It would do you wonders.


----------



## bodecea (Oct 12, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Check out TWITTER!! ROFLMAO
> 
> Twitter frowns on Joe Biden's laugh - Patrick Gavin - POLITICO.com
> 
> READ IT AND WEEP LIBERAL nutters



Oh well...a Twitter!


----------



## paulitician (Oct 12, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Biden came off an obnoxious drunk.   His debate strategy was clear.   Interrupt, and run out Ryan's time, Radditz then called "time".   The Biden giggle is going to go down right along side the Gore sigh.    Biden did not do the democrats any good.



Yeah, once this short-lived elation wears off, even the Obamabots will realize that Biden came off as a cheezy hack. Ryan was clearly the better man. Let them enjoy their brief euphoria though. It's all they have left. Once the smoke clears, it will become clear Ryan was the big winner.


----------



## mudwhistle (Oct 12, 2012)

NYcarbineer said:


> Waaaaaaaa..........
> 
> When Ryan becomes a person who deserves respect, maybe then he'll get some.



You mean when he says what you want to hear. 

In the meanwhile, piss on him?

Well, come November and you guys are losing I will savor that sentiment. 

I expect more of the same from Obama and Romney will be ready. 

Ryan did fine. He showed statesmanship and restraint. 

Biden showed nether. But then again he is a mirror of you guys on the left. The table pounding Dickwads like Nikita Khrushchev.


----------



## FJO (Oct 12, 2012)

Mr. Shaman said:


> Claudette said:
> 
> 
> > I guess they must be desperate as Joe was rude to the max last night.
> ...



You are right. 

They are BOYS. Biden approaching his second child hood and Obama is just a BOY!


----------



## paulitician (Oct 12, 2012)

mudwhistle said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Waaaaaaaa..........
> ...



Wait till the smoke clears. Even the Obamabots will realize that Ryan won this Debate handily. Right now their in a brief state of euphoria. Their jumping up & down giving each other high fives. But i assure you when the smoke clears, most Americans will respect Ryan's class & dignity. Biden came off as a rude cheezy hack. Ryan will win in the long-run.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

*OBAMA/BIDEN 2012 Where everything is a laughing matter to them: Benghazigate - National Debt - High Gas Prices - People out of work.*


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

*OBAMA/BIDEN 2012 Where everything is a laughing matter to them: Benghazigate - National Debt - High Gas Prices - People out of work.*


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

*OBAMA/BIDEN 2012 Where everything is a laughing matter to them: Benghazigate - National Debt - High Gas Prices - People out of work.*


----------



## RoadVirus (Oct 12, 2012)

Jackson said:


> 2ndAmendment said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan wins, yes, of course.   He's not a psycho like Biden.
> ...



"pumped up" is an understatment. He was like an ADD kid who just ate a dozen bags of hersheys kisses.


----------



## FJO (Oct 12, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> > beretta304 said:
> ...



Dan Quayle should have responded to Lloyd Bensen's condescending tripe thus: "No, I am not Jack Kennedy, nor would I want to be! I love and I am faithful to my wife. I am not a philandering and adulterous tomcat, like Jack Kennedy was. I am proud to be Dan Quayle!"

Vice Presidential debates don't often influence the final results, but such response might have shed light on the Democratic hypocrisy.


----------



## bodecea (Oct 12, 2012)

The Righties are trying so hard to cover for their sad little boy.  Most Lefties here were honest enough to admit when Obama lost his debate.   Guess we can't expect the same honesty from many of the Righties here tho.


----------



## regent (Oct 12, 2012)

These debates are not debates in that what the candidate's say is important. The only thing that came out of the Obama-Romney debate was Big Bird. What is important is something else, dominance, and Biden dominated. Some did not like the manner he dominated but Biden dominated. 
In the O-R debate Romney dominated not with his words but because Obama hung back, polite, picking his words carefully and he lost. The debates are nothing but campaign arguments, including the lies, without real substance but overall imprssions. Biden won, Biden dominated.


----------



## SuMar (Oct 12, 2012)

Biden&#65279; is a blabbering inarticulate idiot....Ryan has substance!!! Biden's smirks were downright derisory and un-vice-presidential.


----------



## paulitician (Oct 12, 2012)

bodecea said:


> The Righties are trying so hard to cover for their sad little boy.  Most Lefties here were honest enough to admit when Obama lost his debate.   Guess we can't expect the same honesty from many of the Righties here tho.



Biden was a disresepectful hack. Ryan stayed classy, while Biden did not. Your euphoria will be short-lived. Ryan will win in the long-run. Most Americans respected how he handled himself. In the coming days, there will be a backlash against Biden. So enjoy your pyrrhic victory. Your time is almost up.


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

FJO said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > Mac1958 said:
> ...




You're right. An elderly and now deceased relative of my ex-wife used to say, "the only good Kennedy is a dead Kennedy".   Drastic...but rings true.  I love when the Kennedys pretend to be for the little guy, locked away in their compound far from the "hood".   The lLbs fawn over them while at the same time mocking Romney for the exact same thing.  I'll take Romney's principles over a Kennedy's any day.


----------



## mudwhistle (Oct 12, 2012)

"A wise man debates with a fool, and he is passionate and laughs and is not enraged" - Proverbs 29.9


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 12, 2012)

It was a hard fought, well fought battle.  You homers can give it up for a bit.


----------



## Nole (Oct 12, 2012)

> I'd agree in part but lose the neo-con bullshit.



oh, no doubt. I think this showed in the debate last night. Americans wants a more liberal GOP, and thats who Romney is. He is not a neo-con by any stretch, he just plays one on TV. When team Romney gets away from the neo-con play book, they will win. Im a huge Obama guy here, and this is how I feel.


----------



## RoadVirus (Oct 12, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Clear Biden victory



Yeah...if this was an "act like an idiot on national TV" contest.


----------



## mudwhistle (Oct 12, 2012)

paulitician said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



I've been watching Biden since he chaired the Clarence Thomas hearings. 

This what you get with him.


----------



## Katzndogz (Oct 12, 2012)

Mac1958 said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > If you read the transcript, I think its dead even. If you heard it on radio, Biden won. If you watched it on television, he lost.
> ...



It was a strategy.  Interrupt and run out Ryan's time.   Radditz had to interrupt Biden's interruption and call time.


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 12, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > beretta304 said:
> ...



I clearly favor Obama and Democrats. Please be specific as to the WHATS 'we have been bathed in toxicity by Obama'. I will happily show you that you don't know what you are talking about. 

Romney and Ryan are trying to sell Americans that they're just a bunch of moderate RINOS. I'm not buying...NONE of their proposals, party platform or fact checks back up these lies.

I've been around since Harry Truman was in the White House. In all those years since Dwight Eisenhower, Republicans have NEVER done anything for the middle class. Today's GOP is the antithesis of Ike.

Joe Biden just gave America a healthy dose of plain speaking Harry S. Truman...

"Republicans approve of the American farmer, but they are willing to help him go broke. They stand four-square for the American home--but not for housing. They are strong for labor--but they are stronger for restricting labor's rights. They favor minimum wage--the smaller the minimum wage the better. They endorse educational opportunity for all--but they won't spend money for teachers or for schools. They approve of social security benefits-so much so that they took them away from almost a million people. They think modern medical care and hospitals are fine--for people who can afford them. They believe in international trade--so much so that they crippled our reciprocal trade program, and killed our International Wheat Agreement. They favor the admission of displaced persons--but only within shameful racial and religious limitations.They consider electrical power a great blessing--but only when the private power companies get their rake-off. They say TVA is wonderful--but we ought never to try it again. They condemn "cruelly high prices"--but fight to the death every effort to bring them down. They think American standard of living is a fine thing--so long as it doesn't spread to all the people. And they admire of Government of the United States so much that they would like to buy it."
President Harry S. Truman


----------



## regent (Oct 12, 2012)

So the comments are about Biden, and in presidential debate language that means Biden won. 
The only thing that came out of the presidential Romney-Obama debate was Big Bird. 
What came out of this debate was Biden, his words, his grimaces his smiles and force. In short Biden was Biden. 
Ryan gets an A for politeness but as I will probably remember this debate, my take on Ryan was that he just stood at the podium trying to think of a snappy one liner. He failed.


----------



## FJO (Oct 12, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> FJO said:
> 
> 
> > beretta304 said:
> ...



Robert Kennedy may have been an exception to the rule.

Jack probably had no chance to finish his term, because if it had not been Oswald's bullet it would have been a bullet of a jealous husband or the fickle finger of fate, in the form of venereal disease. 

And Ted Kennedy died way too late. Should have been under water instead of Mary Jo.

All their descendants are scum. Filthy rich, but scum.


----------



## BlindBoo (Oct 12, 2012)

ginscpy said:


> "Life begins  at conception"
> 
> That is so obvious - it's amazing that it needs to be pointed out.



So when fertilization clinics destroy unused embryos they are mass murderers right?


----------



## TNHarley (Oct 12, 2012)

Biden was contradicting what he was saying the whole time about that subject. Ryan took a dick in his ass by his own hand on that one. It should be a persons choice. I agreed with what Biden said about it, but then again, like I said, he steadily contradicted himself


----------



## LilOlLady (Oct 12, 2012)

lukelk said:


> I agree Ryan really dropped the ball on that section.



If Catholics can make decisons for people based on their religion, so can radical Islam. Biden was right not to force his religous belief on others. How many of you complain about JehovahWitnesses knocking on your doors?
If you force me to have a child I cannot afford or do not want, you damn well better to take care of that child for 18 years plus. Give women birth control and that will prevent abortions.
More like he dropped his balls.


----------



## LilOlLady (Oct 12, 2012)

TNHarley said:


> Biden was contradicting what he was saying the whole time about that subject. Ryan took a dick in his ass by his own hand on that one. It should be a persons choice. I agreed with what Biden said about it, but then again, like I said, he steadily *contradicted himself*





Explan or shut the fuck up.


----------



## LilOlLady (Oct 12, 2012)

BlindBoo said:


> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> > "Life begins  at conception"
> ...



Great point. This anti-abortion is going way too far and taking away women's freedom to chose a right our founding father gave us and too many died for.


*Clinic Plans to Destroy Unclaimed Embryos*

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/07/13/health/clinic-plans-to-destroy-unclaimed-embryos.html

If they don't want them destroyed, tell the owners to come and get them?


----------



## Kiki Cannoli (Oct 12, 2012)

I will never understand why this topic has so much voter influence.  Yes yes i know scotus....but lets be real the prez does not discuss this issue outside of campaign rhetoric.


----------



## naturegirl (Oct 12, 2012)

Mac1958 said:


> .
> 
> I'd love to know if the smiling and laughing and smirking were planned, a "strategy".
> 
> ...



Wait, give Joe a minute, he'll probably tell us at his next speech.


----------



## Moonglow (Oct 12, 2012)

ginscpy said:


> "Life begins  at conception"
> 
> That is so obvious - it's amazing that it needs to be pointed out.



So I am 9 months older than what my birth cert says, no suprise.


----------



## Jackson (Oct 12, 2012)

regent said:


> So the comments are about Biden, and in presidential debate language that means Biden won.
> The only thing that came out of the presidential Romney-Obama debate was Big Bird.
> What came out of this debate was Biden, his words, his grimaces his smiles and force. In short Biden was Biden.
> Ryan gets an A for politeness but as I will probably remember this debate, my take on Ryan was that he just stood at the podium trying to think of a snappy one liner. He failed.



Debates are not about one liners.  They are about being presidential and knowing the topic at hand.  It was a clear Ryan knew what he was talking about and certainly acted more presidential.

Someone should have told Biden that America's problems were no laughing matter and listening is an integral part of being a leader.


----------



## mudwhistle (Oct 12, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> LadyGunSlinger said:
> 
> 
> > Martha Raddatz was awful, stepping all over Paul Ryan's statements. Joe Biden was off his meds, flailing with his hands, interrupting, repetitive, and whiny, which is what most of his base has wanted.  And Paul Ryan was calm, cool, and collected, with a better second half in the debate.
> ...



If the goal was to muddle the issues, confuse the public, and not allow Ryan to tattoo him with facts then you can call it a victory. 

However it is a hollow one because it illustrates tactics a candidate on the ropes must use to survive. Joe Biden is a good debater but he's short on facts and long on arrogance. He did what his hard-core base wanted yet alienated the rest.


----------



## JamesInFlorida (Oct 12, 2012)

Scientists and Doctors have NOT proven when life begins. There is no scientific proof of a "soul" (for lack of a better term), or when to monitor life. Since it is a mystery as to when life truly begins here's my question: why not be on the safe side? What if scientists do eventually prove that life begins at conception (or even a few shorts weeks after). If there was evidence as to when life begins, we can all agree on this: this issue would be a lot easier to grasp.

-If personhood begins at birth (legally), why can somebody who murders an expecting mother be charged with 2 cases of murder?


----------



## Jackson (Oct 12, 2012)

Mac1958 said:


> .
> 
> I'd love to know if the smiling and laughing and smirking were planned, a "strategy".
> 
> ...



Of course it was.  Anger your opponent and get him off his game.  It didn't work.  Ryan stayed cool, calm and collected.   That is what we would need in a leader when the going gets rough.

He was supposed to do what the president was unable to do.

Ryan could have turned to Biden with a Reagan remark, "There you go again, Joe.  You'll have to stop interrupting and start listening.  That what a leader does."  But that contrary remark is not part of Ryan's make up... He is too cordial and polite to be antagonistic.


----------



## JamesInFlorida (Oct 12, 2012)

LilOlLady said:


> lukelk said:
> 
> 
> > I agree Ryan really dropped the ball on that section.
> ...



-Nobody forces a woman to conceive a child (Ryan clearly made an exception for rape last night).

-Nobody forces a woman not to practice safe sex. It's readily available and cheap (or even free in many instances).

-Even if you give birth, nobody said you have to raise the baby. You can give it up for adoption, or depending on your state drop it off at any police/fire station.

-If a woman doesn't want a baby that she can't afford she has a choice BEFORE getting pregnant. See can: practice safe sex, or simply not have sex. It's called being responsible, and more people should try it sometime. We hold people accountable for their actions in virtually almost every other walk of life-why is this one any different?


----------



## mudwhistle (Oct 12, 2012)

regent said:


> So the comments are about Biden, and in presidential debate language that means Biden won.
> The only thing that came out of the presidential Romney-Obama debate was Big Bird.
> What came out of this debate was Biden, his words, his grimaces his smiles and force. In short Biden was Biden.
> Ryan gets an A for politeness but as I will probably remember this debate, my take on Ryan was that he just stood at the podium trying to think of a snappy one liner. He failed.



They were sitting down. 

Are you sure you saw the debate??


----------



## GHook93 (Oct 12, 2012)

MS "I suck Democratic cock" NBCcalled it a draw!
Vice presidential candidates fight to draw - Video on NBCNews.com

CN "We lean left" N has Ryan as the winner by 4 points (and shows the people HATE Biden).

CNN Poll: Debate watchers split on who won VP debate &#8211; CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

And obvious Ryan won on Fox by 92 to 8% WOW!!!

California House race with veteran Democrats turns physical during debate | Fox News


So we have the far leftist douche bags in MSNBC calling it a tie. We have the left leaning CNN havng Ryan win by 4% and we have right leaning fox show it as a Ryan land-slide. Clearly Ryan was the winner!!!

It will be fun to watch Obama get another beat down Tuesday!!!!


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

What a historic debate season
1# Romney won by the biggest smash out in debate history(I heard)
2# Biden came out as the biggest ass clown in the history of presidential debates


----------



## SniperFire (Oct 12, 2012)

Can't talk about such politics in the political forum. 

This will be moved.


----------



## Jackson (Oct 12, 2012)

newpolitics said:


> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> > 2ndAmendment said:
> ...



No, Romney listened to his opponent.  He did not interrupt 82 times.  Romney came out as knowledgable and polite, certainly not as over the top Biden came off.  There was a huge difference.


----------



## Katzndogz (Oct 12, 2012)

Biden didn't have to win, just keep Ryan from winning.


----------



## SniperFire (Oct 12, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Biden didn't have to win, just keep Ryan from winning.



That was the strategy, anyways, and the point of his filibustering interrupts.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

Romney is going to eat Obama alive. Romney is a great debater.


----------



## BBCAmerica (Oct 12, 2012)

Yeah Ryan won. Just like his RNC speech was "a good speech but full of inaccuracies" If you think a speech filled with lies was a good speech then yeah, I can see how you could think he won.


----------



## candycorn (Oct 12, 2012)

Jackson said:


> CNN just came in with poll....Ryan wins...but it was closer than the Obama Romney debate.



Must be more of that liberal media bias, eh?


----------



## Jarhead (Oct 12, 2012)

BBCAmerica said:


> Yeah Ryan won. Just like his RNC speech was "a good speech but full of inaccuracies" If you think a speech filled with lies was a good speech then yeah, I can see how you could think he won.



that "they are lying" thing is getting no traction. You see, it is important that you point out the lie and present facts to confirm it is a lie for people to believe it is a lie.

Just saying "he lied" doesnt cut it.

But nice try non the less.


----------



## elvis (Oct 12, 2012)

The country says it was a draw.


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 12, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> FJO said:
> 
> 
> > beretta304 said:
> ...



That is not only drastic, it is sick, despicable and wrong. The history of the Kennedy family is one of public service and ALWAYS sticking up for the little guy.


----------



## Mac1958 (Oct 12, 2012)

.

Are there any partisans here who think the OTHER guy won?

.


----------



## naturegirl (Oct 12, 2012)

All I can say is there was/is a lot at stake here.  I saw nothing that was funny.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

In a presidential debate two things matter
1# Facts or at least something that sounds good
2# You have to look serious and adult

Ryan won 2# big time! Won 1# 
Biden only had spin for his 1# and blown 2#


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

Bfgrn said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > FJO said:
> ...






  I would expect you to say no less.


----------



## Mac1958 (Oct 12, 2012)

naturegirl said:


> All I can say is there was/is a lot at stake here.  I saw nothing that was funny.





Yup.

The question is whether any minds were changed, and I have a tough time believing many were.  Biden did a good job of being aggressive and tough, making up for Obama's sleepy performance, and Ryan proved he's legit and strong.  And both showed how far apart the two parties are.

I don't think the needle was moved last night.

.


----------



## Synthaholic (Oct 12, 2012)

Let's see if this thread is allowed to stand or if it gets buried into Sarah G.'s thread.


----------



## elvis (Oct 12, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> LOL. In other words, Ryan didn't look all that good, and the old Pol did well.



This coming from the guy who said there was no clear winner of the first debate...


----------



## Intolerant (Oct 12, 2012)

Unfortunately, Biden did pretty well this time. Ryan often looked intimidated and even a bit frustrated at times. I suppose it's only natural because of the vast age gap and also the facial contortions, smirking and constant interruptions from Joe. The moderator was also quick to jump in when Ryan was talking. Then there were a number of predictable lies from Joe's mouth to deal with too.

I don't think this will give 0bama any boost in the polls, but it won't help Romney either. This is the least important and ultimately the least memorable of the 4 debates. The next two will showcase the 0bama  without his teleprompter and his inevitable lack of knowledge and preparedness.


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 12, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > beretta304 said:
> ...



So you can't dispute it...and if you try, I will bury you.


----------



## RDD_1210 (Oct 12, 2012)

Ryan may have won, but he also may have lost. I have no problems with someone who thinks he won. But to say he was the clear winner is partisan politics at it's finest. 

Romney clearly won the 1st debate, Ryan did well enough in this debate and could be considered a winner but nothing was clear about it.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

Yahoo poll right now

Who won the vice presidential debate?

Vice President Joe Biden

46%

Rep. Paul Ryan

54%

Thank you for voting.
366,765 votes


----------



## mudwhistle (Oct 12, 2012)

Bfgrn said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



Is that a threat?

No.....this is an old argument and I am not predisposed to being critical of the Kennedys because 1, I'm reading "Killing Kennedy" and 2, I'm related to them distantly.


----------



## GHook93 (Oct 12, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Biden didn't have to win, just keep Ryan from winning.



Not true. Biden need a decisive victory to counter the momentum that Romney scored in the last debate. Ryan really only needed a draw! That is the precise reason the classless Biden came out like a rabid pitbull and a classless bully that tried not to allow Ryan to utter a word!


----------



## Newby (Oct 12, 2012)

Bfgrn said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > FJO said:
> ...



Right, cause the Kennedy's were somehow different, they didn't make their wealth off the backs of the poor working stiffs like all of the other capitalists that are demagogued by the left?  Of course, they only demagogue the 'conservative' rich people, somehow liberal rich people are okay.


----------



## Dr.House (Oct 12, 2012)

elvis said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > LOL. In other words, Ryan didn't look all that good, and the old Pol did well.
> ...



At least he's consistantly wrong...lol


----------



## Dr.House (Oct 12, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> Let's see if this thread is allowed to stand or if it gets buried into Sarah G.'s thread.



Do you ever stop whining like a little school girl?


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

Bfgrn said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...




Don't threaten me puink on a message board no less you asshole. The Kennedys can suck my dick. They are/were crooked adulterers and bootleggers who are and were full of shit.  Easy to pretend to be for the poor and middle class while sailing your boat up in New England and living off the taxpayers.  Too bad the drunk, Teddy isn't around to ask him about those "green" windmills that were in the way of his yacht.   Generational leeches who made their fortune underhandedly and illegally off the sweat of the middle class.

You make the exact statement about Romney but when it's said about the Kennedys you get your beer muscles up.  Romney principles like him or not shame the Kennedys.

Ted the drunk was quite the swimmer wasn't he?  You're going to bury me?  Go fuck yourself, moron.  Making threats and arguing over three dead stooge brothers.


----------



## GHook93 (Oct 12, 2012)

RDD_1210 said:


> Ryan may have won, but he also may have lost. I have no problems with someone who thinks he won. But to say he was the clear winner is partisan politics at it's finest.
> 
> Romney clearly won the 1st debate, Ryan did well enough in this debate and could be considered a winner but nothing was clear about it.



My thoughts at the end was man Biden was a dishonest asshole, but his approach will be effective to some. Ryan did a good job of sticking to his guns, not making any Palinesqe fuck ups and seemed likeable and knowledgable. Also did a MASTERFUL job on the abortion issue of not looking like a radical! Got that point well across. 

Still at the end I thought it was close with Ryan getting the edge, but after the Obama beat down, Biden needed a big clear win that he didn't get. Ryan just needed to hold his own and make it a draw. Ryan accomplished that and that is why it's a clear victory for Ryan! 



One thing you lefties have to admit. Ryan is a smart likeable and knowledgable guy. His intelligence and grasping of the facts can not be attacked the way Palin was!


----------



## bripat9643 (Oct 12, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Martha Raddatz was awful, stepping all over Paul Ryan's statements. Joe Biden was off his meds, flailing with his hands, interrupting, repetitive, and whiny, which is what most of his base has wanted.  And Paul Ryan was calm, cool, and collected, with a better second half in the debate.
> 
> 
> Mark Levin
> ...



Raddatz was obviously trying to do everything possible to through the debate towards Biden.  She's obviously a partisan Democrat.


----------



## Plasmaball (Oct 12, 2012)

Dr.House said:


> elvis said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



and you are consistently gay.


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Oct 12, 2012)

Newby said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > beretta304 said:
> ...



Excellent post and point!


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 12, 2012)

mudwhistle said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > beretta304 said:
> ...



It's not a threat, it's a promise.


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

Bfgrn said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

Bfgrn said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...




It's a promise....jerkoff


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

Bfgrn said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



Here's a promise to...you can post about the kennedy all fucking day. I don't give a shit about the Kenndys.   I posted a comment from a dead man and you got your baby balls twisted.  Pull up your skirt and talk about TODAY not 50+ years ago.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

Biden is a asshole. End of story.


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 12, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > beretta304 said:
> ...



He who angers you conquers you.
E. Kenny

The only thing you have proven is that you are now owed...


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

Bfgrn said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



You used that remark before..BUT I'm not the one mad...you are, you dope. 

 I am sitting here laughing at you getting pissed over a comment a dead man made that I passed along in reference to another poster's comment.


Keep that foam coming out your mouth.


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Oct 12, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> Ryan looked like a bugeyed evangelical preacher. Could be a model for Elmer Gantry.



You put into words what I've thought since the first time I saw him. 

Its that thin-lipped smirk, so self-satisfied and smug because he knows the rw's will swallow _IT_ whole.  

Very annoying that he STILL didn't have to account for his crazy numbers.


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Oct 12, 2012)

Bfgrn said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



The only thing you libs conquer are unborn babies.. sadly. You own nothing and no one.


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 12, 2012)

Newby said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > beretta304 said:
> ...



Well now you did it...you have just unwittingly painted yourself into a corner...

So you now have to choose, if the capitalists you folks on the right worship make their wealth off the backs of the poor working stiffs, WHY do you defend them? And if they don't make their wealth off the backs of the poor working stiffs, why are you condemning the Kennedys?


----------



## bripat9643 (Oct 12, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> LOL. In other words, Ryan didn't look all that good, and the old Pol did well.



Apparently you think looking like a jackass is "doing well."


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 12, 2012)

Only by moving away from the crazee far right can the GOP remain a candidate for national party status.



Nole said:


> > I'd agree in part but lose the neo-con bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> oh, no doubt. I think this showed in the debate last night. Americans wants a more liberal GOP, and thats who Romney is. He is not a neo-con by any stretch, he just plays one on TV. When team Romney gets away from the neo-con play book, they will win. Im a huge Obama guy here, and this is how I feel.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Oct 12, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> LadyGunSlinger said:
> 
> 
> > Martha Raddatz was awful, stepping all over Paul Ryan's statements. Joe Biden was off his meds, flailing with his hands, interrupting, repetitive, and whiny, which is what most of his base has wanted.  And Paul Ryan was calm, cool, and collected, with a better second half in the debate.
> ...



I haven't had a chance to watch the debate yet but do tell HOW DID OBAMA DO?


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 12, 2012)

The vice president pretty much acted like the joker!


----------



## Meathead (Oct 12, 2012)

Like most debates it was a draw. Dems think Biden won and Reps think Ryan. Last week only hacks thought it was a draw and only hopeless dingbats think Obama won.

I expect the same kind of reaction to the next debate.

Other than that, I don't really know if Biden's antics were impressive to the impartial. To me they were not, but then I'm not that impartial.


----------



## thanatos144 (Oct 12, 2012)

Biden did gaff.....Well the Moderator didnt allow Biden to gaff.....That what I got out of the debate.


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 12, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > beretta304 said:
> ...



Your rant, for all to see, defies your premise. You know you will be buried, and your fear overwhelmed you...sorry, it's too late now.

The angry people are those people who are most afraid.
Dr. Robert Anthony


----------



## koshergrl (Oct 12, 2012)

"National Democrats keep confusing strength with aggression and command with sarcasm. Even the latter didn't work for Mr. Biden. The things he said had the rhythm and smirk of sarcasm without the cutting substance. "

Confusing Strength With Aggression - WSJ.com


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

Bfgrn said:


> Newby said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...





"So you now have to choose, "


And? Then you don't say what the choices are?    The Left who favor the union bosses for example who make wealth off the members?  That choice?  Or the ones on the dole who making it  off the ones paying taxes?  Those?  Or the ones who pay no tax at all?  Those? Or the companies that Obama gave "payback" to like Solyndra?  Those? The UAW? Them?  Shall I go on?  

You're an idiot, Boy Blunder.


----------



## Big Black Dog (Oct 12, 2012)

Biden showed us all that he is indeed an ASS CLOWN.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 12, 2012)

The moderator kept the debate moving along and took little gaff from the debaters.

I have not seen a strong moderator like that in a long time.


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> The moderator kept the debate moving along and took little gaff from the debaters.
> 
> I have not seen a strong moderator like that in a long time.




ABC News Martha Raddatz delivered just what Team Obama needed in Thursdays vice presidential debate, a mere week after the president bumbled his way to a failure in his first one-on-one tussle with Republican Mitt Romney.

Raddatz channeled her ABC News colleague, former Bill Clinton operative George Stephanopoulos, while moderating Thursday evenings showdown between Vice President Joe Biden and GOP vice presidential candidate Rep. Paul Ryan, conducting the event with questions and timing that benefited Biden.

Stephanopoulos infamously bombed a GOP primary debate in January, inserting his own politics and probing candidates about marginal issues. Raddatz fell prey to some of his problems Thursday night, adding a seeming unwillingness to control the flow of the debate personified in Bidens many interruptions of his opponent.



Read more: Raddatz channels Stephanopoulos in lopsided VP debate moderating performance | The Daily Caller


----------



## mamooth (Oct 12, 2012)

CNN admits their own poll oversampled republicans by +8. 

Polling Center: CNN Poll: Who won the VP debate? - Elections & Politics from CNN.com
---
SPECIAL NOTE OF CAUTION #2: The sample of debate-watchers in this poll were 31% Democratic and 33% Republican. That indicates that the sample of debate watchers is about eight points more Republican than an average CNN poll of all Americans, so the respondents were more Republican than the general public.
---

Adjust for that, and even the Conservative News Network (CNN) polls shows Biden a solid winner. All the polls show it. It was that obvious. Hence the Republican poutrage routine ("Biden was meaaaaaaaaaaan!") going on now, and their unwillingness to look at any poll except CNN's bad poll.

More important than minds changed (which were very few, given how few independents there are) is the momentum shift.

Republicans were informed that Biden was a moron, Ryan would take him apart, and that would lead to Romney's glorious ascension to DearLeader. And that dream just fell apart, leaving conservatives demoralized and crying.

Democrats loved Biden's fire, and the way he responded to serial lies by laughing, which is the best way to respond to them. 

Energized people work hard, donate and go to the polls. Demoralized people don't.


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Oct 12, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > The moderator kept the debate moving along and took little gaff from the debaters.
> ...



I hope this latest FIASCO will teach Republicans to stop accepting LIBERAL media whores as Moderators.. SAY NO.. And also, demand Fox News be included in debates next time. Both Brett Bair and Chris Wallace are excellent journalists! Britt Hume also!


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

"There were fireworks all the way, and plenty of drama. Each candidate could claim a win in one area or another, but by the end it looked to me like this: For the second time in two weeks, the Democrat came out and defeated himself. In both cases the Republican was strong and the Democrat somewhat disturbing.

Another way to say it is the old man tried to patronize the kid and the kid stood his ground. The old man pushed, and the kid pushed back."




Confusing Strength With Aggression - WSJ.com


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 12, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Newby said:
> ...



"Labor is the United States. The men and women, who with their minds, their hearts and hands, create the wealth that is shared in this countrythey are America." 
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

That choice is easy...I choose unions. They fight for jobs that are 100% domestic and ZERO outsourced. And I will NEVER choose the party of Grover Norquist.

"We're going to crush labor as a political entity"
Grover Norquist

"With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than any other organization of men that ever existed"
Clarence Darrow


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

Bfgrn said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...





Can't speak for yourself, can ya? Too bad, junior.


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 12, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > beretta304 said:
> ...



What part of: "I choose unions. They fight for jobs that are 100% domestic and ZERO outsourced. And I will NEVER choose the party of Grover Norquist" ...do you need me to simplify?


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

Bfgrn said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...




Nah! Actually I was just thinking how "simple" you really are.


----------



## thanatos144 (Oct 12, 2012)

newpolitics said:


> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> > 2ndAmendment said:
> ...


When did Romney interrupt 81 times?


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 12, 2012)

beretta304 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > beretta304 said:
> ...



Well, gee, I guess my only retort that would match your cognitive level is: 'I know you are, but what am I'


----------



## beretta304 (Oct 12, 2012)

Bfgrn said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...





Oooohhhhhhhhhhhh... cognitive? My , my...thanks Pee Wee.  You resemble that remark.


----------



## mudwhistle (Oct 12, 2012)

Bfgrn said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



"The Wisconsin protests are proving that the era of unhinged politics is not over. If anything, the hyperpartisan hysteria seems to be catching, with Democratic lawmakers in Indiana running for the hills while a new round of union protests swamps the statehouse in Ohio.

Its an unwelcome recurrence of politics being treated as apocalypse. Neither side is innocent, but on matters of both style and substance, the left is coming out of this debate looking worse.

Why?

Weve certainly seen a full range of left-wing-nuttery at the protests, from the obligatory Nazi/Hitler comparisons on signs to Democratic elected officials getting into the overheated action. Rep. Michael Capuano (D-MA) declared his solidarity with the mob, saying every once in a while you need to get out on the streets and get a little bloody when necessary, while the esteemed Rep. John Lewis (D-GA) said, There is an unbelievable parallel and a real connection that I can readily identify with the people in the streets of Cairo and Madison, Wisconsin. Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN) just cut to the chase and called Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker a dictator.

To top off the ugliness, there has been a mini-Twitter rampage of kindly folks calling for Walkers death. Theyve forgotten about Gabby Giffords pretty fast, and the outrage should be more widespread than its been to date. But too often, situational ethics is the operative mode in politics, causing partisans to excuse the inexcusable as long as it comes from their side. The attitude seems to be they may be crazy, but theyre our crazies.

Cut through all the special-interest spin and youve got a real debate about the role that public-sector unions have in the budget deficits that are bankrupting cities and states.
Public-sector unions reflexively call any proposed reduction in money or power anti-union. They could also be fairly described as pro-taxpayer."

Quote of the Day: Wisconsins Anti-Union Hysteria and The Real Issue Lurking Behind the Emotionse | The Moderate Voice


----------



## BluePhantom (Oct 12, 2012)

Seawytch said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> > Frankly Biden lied his ass off as well.  Seniors haven't lost medicare advantage?  My Dad would beg to differ.
> ...



That's not what he said.  

"_RYAN: 7.4 million seniors are projected to lose their current Medicare Advantage coverage they have. Thats a $3,200 benefit cut.

BIDEN: That didnt happen._"​
Transcript: The 2012 VP Debate

"_...and that 7.4 million seniors are going to lose Medicare Advantage plans (maybe, but theyd still be covered by traditional Medicare)_."​
In other words "_yeah...but..._"  Translation.  Ryan was right and Biden lied.

FactCheck.org : Veep Debate Violations



Seawytch said:


> > Iran doesn't have a delivery vehicle for a nuclear weapon?  Oh yeah they do.  Not one that can hit us, but they can sure as hell reach Israel and in fact it can reach southern Europe. The Shahab-3 has a range of 1,250 miles. and can be *easily *equipped with a nuclear device.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That has absolutely *nothing *to do with whether they have a delivery vehicle or not.

_BIDEN: ...When my friend talks about fissile material, they have to take this highly enriched uranium, get it from 20 percent up, then they have to be able to have something to put it in. There is no weapon that the Iranians have at this point._​
That's a *total *lie.  Shahab-3 has a range of 1,200 miles meaning it can hit into southern Europe and it can be easily adapted to carry a nuclear warhead.  Hell they can drop a nuclear device out of a plane...we did...remember?

Iran tests long-range ballistic missiles | World news | guardian.co.uk





Seawytch said:


> > The AARP endorses their medicare policy?  Really?  Interesting since they have gone on record saying "no we don't will you please stop making that claim?"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



_AARP has a message for President Obama: Stop using us to score political points. 

Obama cited the nonpartisan senior lobby twice in Wednesday's debate when arguing against Mitt Romney's Medicare proposals. 

The remarks prompted a polite statement from AARP Senior Vice President John Hishta asking candidates to refrain from mentioning the group. 

"AARP has never consented to the use of its name by any candidate or political campaign," Hishta said. _

"*AARP is a nonpartisan organization, and we do not endorse political candidates nor coordinate with any candidate or political party.*"​
AARP to Obama: Stop citing us - The Hill's Healthwatch

AARP to Obama: Don

AARP objects to Obama invoking group's support during debate | Fox News

AARPs Statement on the Denver Presidential Debate  AARP


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 12, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> It was a hard fought, well fought battle.  You homers can give it up for a bit.



Homers?
Biden was nasty, unprofessional, arrogant and impolite.
He interrupted Ryan over 80 times. The moderator jumped on Ryan over 25 times
Biden displayed his actual personality. He demonstrated a level of arrogance that is in poor form for the office he holds.
This may not have been a win for Ryan, but is was a huge loss for Biden. He beat himself. Soundly.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 12, 2012)

Bfgrn said:


> beretta304 said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...


You may choose to belong to a labor collective, but nearly 93% of us choose otherwise.
Unions are vastly unpopular. Public worker unions have almost unanimous rejection by tax payers who are in the private sector.
In fact it is union leadership itself which led to it's own demise.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 12, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> The moderator kept the debate moving along and took little gaff from the debaters.
> 
> I have not seen a strong moderator like that in a long time.



moderators are not there to interrupt one debater while allowing the other ample time to finish their point.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 12, 2012)

BlindBoo said:


> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> > "Life begins  at conception"
> ...



Stop the hysteria.
Ryan expressed his beliefs.
He did not express any desire to recommend legislation of  those beliefs.
Big difference.
The country is generally pro choice. At least to a certain extent. 
Most people allow for abortion in the case of health of the mother, rape or incest.
Legal abortion isn't going anywhere. 
You people need to take cold showers.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 12, 2012)

She did it fairly to both of them.  Fact.



thereisnospoon said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > The moderator kept the debate moving along and took little gaff from the debaters.
> ...


----------



## Cowman (Oct 12, 2012)

Matthew said:


> Barb, you reds are fucking nuts. How many more millions do you have to kill? Your marxism has failed.
> 
> GROW THE FUCK UP.



Says the guy who wants to kill BILLIONS.


----------



## skookerasbil (Oct 12, 2012)

Sorry Lady........Lakota says Biden won which means Biden won!!!


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 12, 2012)

Nah,  Biden did not win but he did not lose.  He did what he came to do: to show MR/PR that they could not just say anything and get away with it.  MR now needs to explain his economic plans far more clearly, and he has to do it this next time will holding off the President.  BHO knows that if he fails here, he will lose the election.  This is going to be one heck of a show down.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 12, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Nah,  Biden did not win but he did not lose.  He did what he came to do: to show MR/PR that they could not just say anything and get away with it.  MR now needs to explain his economic plans far more clearly, and he has to do it this next time will holding off the President.  BHO knows that if he fails here, he will lose the election.  This is going to be one heck of a show down.



So unprofessional behavior, interrupting, laughing while Ryan was speaking the raising of his voice....that's ok in your book?
Biden's entire debate was deny and show anger and show disdain for Ryan.
The VP showed his admin has an atrocious record.


----------



## mudwhistle (Oct 12, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Nah,  Biden did not win but he did not lose.  He did what he came to do: to show MR/PR that they could not just say anything and get away with it.  MR now needs to explain his economic plans far more clearly, and he has to do it this next time will holding off the President.  BHO knows that if he fails here, he will lose the election.  This is going to be one heck of a show down.
> ...



He showed why they've been such a clusterfuck.


----------



## Peach (Oct 12, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Martha Raddatz was awful, stepping all over Paul Ryan's statements. Joe Biden was off his meds, flailing with his hands, interrupting, repetitive, and whiny, which is what most of his base has wanted.  And Paul Ryan was calm, cool, and collected, with a better second half in the debate.
> 
> 
> Mark Levin
> ...



Keep trying to convince yourself; UNDECIDED voters picked BIDEN as the winner by 20+ percent. So did anyone older than 16 (Ryan's apparent age) or with an IQ above room temperature. Ryan is the new Palin, and at least she isn't ugly as sin. Watching Ryan's nose grow as he lies is interesting though. It'll soon reach across every street he reaches, wandering around aimlessly.


----------



## Lakhota (Oct 12, 2012)

Poll: Biden takes debate over Ryan, uncommitted voters say - CBS News

Joe Biden Wins Debate In CNBC Poll, Still Losing In Fake Breitbart-Reported AP Poll | Mediaite

Debate results: Joltin' Joe Biden wins the bout - POLITICO.com

Biden had the edge in VP debate: Reuters/Ipsos poll | Reuters


----------



## Lakhota (Oct 12, 2012)

Go Joe!!!!!


----------



## JimH52 (Oct 12, 2012)

Yup, he won!  I will admit though that Ryan did not lie as much as Willard did in his debate.  Ryan at least admitted there was a 5 Trillion dollar tax cut planned.  Willard just outright lied on that one.  Ryan just refused to give details...


----------



## Conservative (Oct 12, 2012)

Who Won the VP Debate 2012: Paul Ryan Wins the Polls Against Laughing Joe Biden



> According to the CNN pollof independents, Paul Ryan won the debate, 48% to 44%. The same poll showed that people who watched the debate believed that Paul Ryan expressed himself better than Joe Biden, 50%-41%. An NBC poll of 435 uncommitted voters after the debate showed Paul Ryan winning with 63% to 31%. CNBC had it 56% to 36%, again with Paul Ryan coming out on top. Even the Danville Advocate Messenger had Paul Ryan on top at the end of the day, attracting 56% to Biden's 41%.


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Oct 12, 2012)

YouTube - Vice Presidential Debate - Who Won?


----------



## BluePhantom (Oct 12, 2012)

Peach said:


> LadyGunSlinger said:
> 
> 
> > Martha Raddatz was awful, stepping all over Paul Ryan's statements. Joe Biden was off his meds, flailing with his hands, interrupting, repetitive, and whiny, which is what most of his base has wanted.  And Paul Ryan was calm, cool, and collected, with a better second half in the debate.
> ...



Oh Peach stop it.  The polls were all over the place among undecided voters.  Some polls had Biden winning and some had Ryan winning.  Regardless, almost all of them said the result didn't change their vote one way or the other. Knock it off.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 12, 2012)

Peach said:


> LadyGunSlinger said:
> 
> 
> > Martha Raddatz was awful, stepping all over Paul Ryan's statements. Joe Biden was off his meds, flailing with his hands, interrupting, repetitive, and whiny, which is what most of his base has wanted.  And Paul Ryan was calm, cool, and collected, with a better second half in the debate.
> ...



You can believe that nonsense if it makes you feel better.
You libs are denial. 
This is your Waterloo.


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 12, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> The country is generally pro choice. .





The majority is pro life.


"Pro-Choice" Americans at Record-Low 41%


----------



## Lakhota (Oct 12, 2012)

Great job, Joe!!!!!


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Oct 12, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> Great job, Joe!!!!!



He hit him hard every minute of the debate. Wow.


----------



## paulitician (Oct 12, 2012)

Biden may have actually convinced many to vote against him and his boss. He was a big ole hack. Ryan was very civilized and restrained. He'll get much respect for that. Biden did not do his boss any favors.


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 12, 2012)

The obama camp probably counts it as a victory that at least biden didn't drop his pants and start dancing on top of the table.


----------



## Lakhota (Oct 12, 2012)

*Why Joe won*


----------



## BluePhantom (Oct 12, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> *Why Joe won*



Your argument is an Op-Ed by Robert Reich?!?!  Good shootin' Christ.  I have just one question for you, Lakhota.....was the lobotomy painful?


----------



## Lakhota (Oct 12, 2012)

*Polls: Biden Wins Debate*

Poll: Biden takes debate over Ryan, uncommitted voters say - CBS News

Joe Biden Wins Debate In CNBC Poll, Still Losing In Fake Breitbart-Reported AP Poll | Mediaite

Debate results: Joltin' Joe Biden wins the bout - POLITICO.com

Biden had the edge in VP debate: Reuters/Ipsos poll | Reuters


----------



## BluePhantom (Oct 12, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> *Polls: Biden Wins Debate*
> 
> Poll: Biden takes debate over Ryan, uncommitted voters say - CBS News
> 
> ...



Oh great....so now you have one CBS poll, one story from Mediate.com about an online poll, another Op-Ed from Politico, and a fucking online poll from Reuters.  Lakhota.....don't be a dip shit


----------



## Conservative (Oct 12, 2012)

BluePhantom said:


> Lakhota.....don't be a dip shit



It is Shitting Bulls nature.


----------



## Barb (Oct 13, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> > .
> ...





That "mean old man"


----------



## Wroberson (Oct 13, 2012)

I thought Ryan won 53% to 46% with a margin of error of 1%.


----------



## Barb (Oct 13, 2012)

Jarhead said:


> BBCAmerica said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah Ryan won. Just like his RNC speech was "a good speech but full of inaccuracies" If you think a speech filled with lies was a good speech then yeah, I can see how you could think he won.
> ...



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/13/w...-focused-on-tripoli.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1& 



> State Department officials testified this week during a hearing by the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee that extending the tour of additional guards &#8212; a 16-member military security team &#8212; through mid-September would not have changed the bloody outcome because they were based in Tripoli, not Benghazi.



400 Miles away



> The White House spokesman, Jay Carney, said Friday that security issues related to diplomatic posts in Libya and other countries were dealt with at the State Department, not the White House. Based on interviews with administration officials, as well as in diplomatic cables, and Congressional testimony, those security decisions appear to have been made largely by midlevel State Department security officials, and did not involve Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton or her top aides



But what can you do? The whole R&R campaign is lies, theft of other people's work without their permission, and distortions.

first it was rock and rollers, now it's a tv show

Friday Night Lights TV Show Creator to Romney: 'Come Up With Your Own Campaign Slogan' | ThinkProgress



> Romney has repeated a version of the line for several days straight on the campaign trail. His campaign sent fundraising email with the motto in the subject line. And it&#8217;s now plastered at the top of his Facebook page, overlaid on a black-and-white photo of the candidate standing in the rain, his back to the camera, at a rally in Virginia on Monday.



'Friday Night Lights' Creator Accuses Mitt Romney of Plagiarism in Threatening Letter - Hollywood Reporter 



> "Your politics and campaign are clearly not aligned with the themes we portrayed in our series," Berg writes in the letter, challenging the GOP contender's use of "Clear Eyes. Full Hearts. Can't Lose."





> In a letter to the Romney campaign sent Friday and obtained exclusively by The Hollywood Reporter, Berg calls the use of "Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose" an act of stealing. "Your politics and campaign are clearly not aligned with the themes we portrayed in our series," Berg writes in the letter. "The only relevant comparison that I see between your campaign and Friday Night Lights is in the character of Buddy Garrity -- who turned his back on American car manufacturers selling imported cars from Japan."




http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/sites/default/files/custom/Documents/ESQ/Letter_to_Romney.pdf


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 13, 2012)

Biden lost by 10 points to Ryan in likeability. Don't tell me that this didn't hurt Obama.


----------



## Barb (Oct 13, 2012)

Matthew said:


> Biden lost by 10 points to Ryan in likeability. Don't tell me that this didn't hurt Obama.



Which poll are you going by? 

Your side never "liked" him to begin with. Its no great surprise that you still don't, given the trip to the woodshed he took your errant little princeling on.

good times...


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 13, 2012)

cnn


----------



## Barb (Oct 13, 2012)

Matthew said:


> cnn



They already had to admit they over represented conservative voters in that poll.


----------



## BluePhantom (Oct 13, 2012)

Barb said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > cnn
> ...



Uh....not quite.  They overrepresented Republicans *according to their polls of registered voters* regarding party identification; not the _actual statistics_ of party identification.  That means that according to *their *polls only 25% of the registered voters in the United States is Republican.  Riiiiiiiiiiigggghhhhhtttttt!  That's the kind of shit that jackoffs like Nate Silver try to pull all the time.  When you apply a likely voter model which is usually 32/32/36 (Democrat/Republican/Independent respectively) then the CNN poll is damn near right on the nose with their sampling and the overall swing would be less than 0.5%.


----------



## Barb (Oct 13, 2012)

BluePhantom said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...



Baffling yourself with bullshit, BP?


----------



## BluePhantom (Oct 13, 2012)

Barb said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> > Barb said:
> ...



No I just have a brain (apparently unlike you).  Let's see here:

Polling Center: CNN Poll: Who won the VP debate? - Elections & Politics from CNN.com

"SPECIAL NOTE OF CAUTION #2: The sample of debate-watchers in this poll were 31% Democratic and 33% Republican. That indicates that the sample of debate watchers is about eight points more Republican *than an average CNN poll of all Americans*, so the respondents were more Republican than the general public."​
Ok first of all, I watch the polls like a hawk and have multiple threads on in depth polling analysis.  This is the first time I have *ever *seen a poll that is released with a disclaimer. In other words, they didn't like the results of the poll so now they are getting into the political game of trying to make excuses for their own results.

Secondly, they say the 33% Republican sample is "_eight points more than the average CNN poll of all Americans._"  Note the language, genius.  They didn't say eight points more than registered voter statistics.  They didn't say eight points more than historic turnout.  They said eight points more than *their poll*.  Not only is it compared to simply their poll, it's a poll of "*all Americans*", not registered voters (as I said before, I stand corrected), not likely voters...*all Americans*.

Ok...no one gives a fuck about "all Americans" when it comes to election projections since nearly half of the electorate doesn't bother to vote.  Furthermore, while there are more registered Democrats than Republicans in the US, Republicans vote at a higher rate because of the difference between seniors (mostly GOP who vote steadily) and young voters (mostly Democrat who vote if they run out of beer and have nothing better to do). In the end of the people who actually go vote, historically it's 32% Democrat, 32% Republican, and 36% unaffiliated. So the CNN sample of 33% Republican, 31% Democrat, and 36% unaffiliated is pretty much right on the nose.

Perhaps if you spent a little time actually researching such things instead of just blathering on and parroting whatever the Daily Kos says you wouldn't so proudly make an ass of yourself on such topics.


----------



## Barb (Oct 13, 2012)

BluePhantom said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> > BluePhantom said:
> ...



Odd that you have to be hoisted by your own petard on this. Surely, if the hated CNN is actually so accurate, it must be matched by some or ANY other poll...


----------



## BluePhantom (Oct 13, 2012)

Barb said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> > Barb said:
> ...



Irrelevant.  Whether it is or isn't is *totally *irrelevant to the argument *you *made that CNN oversampled Republicans. That's an argument that only responates with someone who is ignorant of how polling works; someone who doesn't know the difference between an (A) poll [all americans], a RV Poll [registered voters], and an LV poll [likely voters]. The language CNN uses in their bullshit disclaimer is attempting to discredit their own data by comparing LV information to A information. They are two totally different animals and anyone with even a basic understanding of polling knows that...or are you suggesting that only 25% of the people who show up to vote on election day are Republicans?


----------



## decker (Oct 13, 2012)

BluePhantom said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> > BluePhantom said:
> ...


Either way i doubt vp debate will effect the election to much. Larry sabto who covered million election said only 18% of his people in his research said vp debates any impact on their votes.


----------



## BluePhantom (Oct 13, 2012)

decker said:


> Either way i doubt vp debate will effect the election to much. Larry sabto who covered million election said only 18% of his people in his research said vp debates any impact on their votes.



As I have said on multiple threads...the effect will be somewhere betwen a 0.5% bounce for Romney or simply a slowing (not stop) of the current Romney trend....in other words: mostly irrelevant. I agree with you. 

Doesn't mean Barb's argument is not total horseshit though.


----------



## Barb (Oct 13, 2012)

> *Irrelevant*


!


----------



## BluePhantom (Oct 13, 2012)

Barb said:


> > *Irrelevant*
> 
> 
> !



I repond with facts and statistics and you respond with pictures of facial hair.  This one isn't worth staying up for.  Wake me up when your grey matter develops to the point where you don't generate energy through photosynthesis.


----------



## decker (Oct 13, 2012)

BluePhantom said:


> decker said:
> 
> 
> > Either way i doubt vp debate will effect the election to much. Larry sabto who covered million election said only 18% of his people in his research said vp debates any impact on their votes.
> ...


well that your view. i think your right though vp debate has little effect and  they mostly never do. big ones always be presidential debate.

romney still got big mo sadly and unless something amazing happens then that will carry on.


----------



## Meathead (Oct 13, 2012)

voltron said:


> cnn polls said ryan was favored by about 10% and one thing i noticed was that about halfway through the cocaine or whatever the vp was on started to wear off. i think someone in the audience had to of just gotten his attention, and told him he was making a fool of himself.


Please come up with more original stuff. I saw a talking head make the same remark. If anyone was high, or rather drunk, it was Biden.


----------



## copsnrobbers (Oct 13, 2012)

If anything positive developed from the debate it is that women didn't like Biden. That's Big!

The only folks who liked Biden are Liberal voters. But then again, they like any one who will feed them.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 13, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Nah,  Biden did not win but he did not lose.  He did what he came to do: to show MR/PR that they could not just say anything and get away with it.  MR now needs to explain his economic plans far more clearly, and he has to do it this next time will holding off the President.  BHO knows that if he fails here, he will lose the election.  This is going to be one heck of a show down.



Biden won brilliantly because he pointed out that a 20% tax reduction is impossible without cutting major deductions that benefit the middle class or cutting entitlement programs that favor the middle class.  

Romney's economic plans are much like his religion - an outright lie.  

Obama should have called him on it in the first debate, but he got cowed by the angry black man video Fox was playing wall to wall before the debate and tried to sound reasonable.  Lehrer's Alzheimer's Moderation didn't help, either.  

Romney won't get a pass on the next two debates.


----------



## Seawytch (Oct 13, 2012)

BluePhantom said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > BluePhantom said:
> ...



What are you talking about? People who had been covered under Medicare Advantage (where we overpaid for services) are still covered under Medicare. There is no loss in benefits and we cut waste, fraud and abuse out of Medicare. How can a "fiscal conservative" not support that? 




> That has absolutely *nothing *to do with whether they have a delivery vehicle or not.
> 
> _BIDEN: ...When my friend talks about fissile material, they have to take this highly enriched uranium, get it from 20 percent up, then they have to be able to have something to put it in. There is no weapon that the Iranians have at this point._​
> That's a *total *lie.  Shahab-3 has a range of 1,200 miles meaning it can hit into southern Europe and it can be easily adapted to carry a nuclear warhead.  Hell they can drop a nuclear device out of a plane...we did...remember?
> ...



We aren't in danger of attack anytime soon. Sanctions are working. We don't need to invade another country for the GOP jobs plan. 





Seawytch said:


> > The AARP endorses their medicare policy?  Really?  Interesting since they have gone on record saying "no we don't will you please stop making that claim?"
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> _AARP has a message for President Obama: Stop using us to score political points.
> 
> Obama cited the nonpartisan senior lobby twice in Wednesday's debate when arguing against Mitt Romney's Medicare proposals.
> 
> ...



The AARP said they don't endorse candidates...they DID endorse the Affordable Care Act.


----------



## Meathead (Oct 13, 2012)

Seawytch said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> > Seawytch said:
> ...



The AARP said they don't endorse candidates...they DID endorse the Affordable Care Act.[/QUOTE]I worked for AARP. The idea that they are non-partisan is only to not alienate members, or prospective members.


----------



## Seawytch (Oct 13, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Nah,  Biden did not win but he did not lose.  He did what he came to do: to show MR/PR that they could not just say anything and get away with it.  MR now needs to explain his economic plans far more clearly, and he has to do it this next time will holding off the President.  BHO knows that if he fails here, he will lose the election.  This is going to be one heck of a show down.
> ...



The President showed up to debate "Severely Conservative" Willard, but that's not the Reversible Mittens that showed up...Moderate Mitt did. Romney shook the Etch-A-Sketch right before he stepped on stage. Don't expect the President to make that mistake twice. Not to mention, he can hammer him even more on his flip flops.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 13, 2012)

Seawytch said:


> The President showed up to debate "Severely Conservative" Willard, but that's not the Reversible Mittens that showed up...Moderate Mitt did. Romney shook the Etch-A-Sketch right before he stepped on stage. Don't expect the President to make that mistake twice. Not to mention, he can hammer him even more on his flip flops.



I think the thing is, he made a decision early on to not hit Romney on his flip flops, but to hit him on his extremism... 

he should have been hitting him on both all along.  

Romney is getting away with shaking the etch-a-sketch at this point because he's figured that the extremists are stuck with him regardless at this point.


----------



## hazlnut (Oct 13, 2012)




----------



## BecauseIKnow (Oct 13, 2012)

LOL even Paul Ryan laughed at the Jack Kennedy line Ha Ha Ha!


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 13, 2012)

This is going to be a very good debate format, I think.

MR needs to beat down the President again to ice the election.

I think he can

.





Seawytch said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...


----------



## Jroc (Oct 13, 2012)

BecauseIKnow said:


> LOL even Paul Ryan laughed at the Jack Kennedy line Ha Ha Ha!



As he said Ryan is a lot closer to JFK then that nutjob Biden

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AAEp0J_hzU]kennedy tax cut - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 13, 2012)

In that they both embrace neo-conservatism and imperialism, yes.


----------



## BecauseIKnow (Oct 13, 2012)

Jroc said:


> BecauseIKnow said:
> 
> 
> > LOL even Paul Ryan laughed at the Jack Kennedy line Ha Ha Ha!
> ...


----------



## Jroc (Oct 13, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Nah,  Biden did not win but he did not lose.  He did what he came to do: to show MR/PR that they could not just say anything and get away with it.  MR now needs to explain his economic plans far more clearly, and he has to do it this next time will holding off the President.  BHO knows that if he fails here, he will lose the election.  This is going to be one heck of a show down.
> ...



Fox news caused Obama's pathetic debate performance? That's a new one. When Obama is without his script he's lost. People don't like his off script real views


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKjPI6no5ng]Obama: If You&#39;ve Got A Business, You Didn&#39;t Build That - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Rozman (Oct 13, 2012)

Hannity said Biden was acting strange.
Pat Buchanan said Biden's antics was calculated and I agree...
It was meant to try to throw the younger guy off the track.
Kind of like making noise and gesturing to try to make a golfer miss a put.

Is that all the Democrat party can come up with...
Pretty sad that the Dems would resort to a childish attempt to get the other guy off his game.
They really must be desperate over there.


----------



## Katzndogz (Oct 13, 2012)

Biden wasn't there to win.  He was there to keep Ryan from winning.  He was there to interfere and he did.

Hannity said that Biden was acting strangely but to people who know Biden personally, they said he was acting like he always does.


----------



## decker (Oct 13, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Biden wasn't there to win.  He was there to keep Ryan from winning.  He was there to interfere and he did.
> 
> Hannity said that Biden was acting strangely but to people who know Biden personally, they said he was acting like he always does.


maybe but i think he got to rude at times and i don,t think he would have done that if obama had better night other week.

either way it makes no difference. still up to the president to turn this one around. But he way behind in polls now and will need comebacks of all comebacks to win


----------



## Jroc (Oct 13, 2012)

Rozman said:


> Hannity said Biden was acting strange.
> Pat Buchanan said Biden's antics was calculated and I agree...
> It was meant to try to throw the younger guy off the track.
> Kind of like making noise and gesturing to try to make a golfer miss a put.
> ...



Biden is a nutjob..







*Biden falsely claims he did not vote to invade Afghanistan or Iraq*


*Biden contradicts State, blames intelligence community for Libya misinformation*

*Biden claims the administration didnt know the Benghazi consulate requested greater security, again contradicting State*


VP Debate: Joe Biden&#8217;s Three Most Misleading Foreign Policy Statements


----------



## decker (Oct 13, 2012)

Jroc said:


> Rozman said:
> 
> 
> > Hannity said Biden was acting strange.
> ...


well it did not end romney bounce so you guys be happy with that

in end its romney to loses and he look odds on to win the election now


----------



## mudwhistle (Oct 13, 2012)

This is a summary of the VP debate:

Ryan was polite and informative. A factchecker site with ties to Obama found fault in some of his "facts" while Biden was rude, obnoxious, yet successfully ramrodded that debate. 

Ryan had a choice.......tell Biden to STFU or allow him to continue to be rude and try to put out his views between all of the interruptions from Biden and the moderator. Ether way the MSM would have made political points off of it to help Obiden. 

Personally I think if he had told Biden, in so many words, to STFU Biden would have continued his act, maybe even escalated it to another level. Ryan made a choice to keep it reasonably congenial because he knew Biden would have really shown his ass had he told him in more animated terms to knock it off. 

Biden showed himself to be the horses' ass he is and he also showed the Democrat voter that there is some life left in the Dem ticket. Ryan missed an opportunity but he didn't have to put his foot down because when your opponent insists on eating himself alive you pass them the salt. 

Romney/Ryan feels there are still enough rational people in this country to see Biden's performance for what it was. Most of us are angry and disgusted by it. Dick Cheney said that our allies saw that debate and many are worried about this man being one heart-beat away from being POTUS. Our enemies don't care because they don't respect ether the VP or our current POTUS.


----------



## Jroc (Oct 13, 2012)

decker said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Rozman said:
> ...



umm....OK if you say so What is that based on exactly?


----------



## decker (Oct 13, 2012)

Jroc said:


> decker said:
> 
> 
> > Jroc said:
> ...


well i base it on fact romney lead nationally in every  poll and in most swing states now. I hate to admit that but romney as odds on now as obama was to win four years ago.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 13, 2012)

RCP still has Michigan, Ohio, New Hampshire, and Nevada in the presidential camp, but they have weakened.

If the election were held today, BHO would probably squeak through.

Should Romney beat Obama as badly this time as last, Romney will win walking away.


----------



## decker (Oct 13, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> RCP still has Michigan, Ohio, New Hampshire, and Nevada in the presidential camp, but they have weakened.
> 
> If the election were held today, BHO would probably squeak through.
> 
> Should Romney beat Obama as badly this time as last, Romney will win walking away.


true but likehood is ohio pundits saying is moving towards romney. also if obama can,t win a locked in state like michigan which dems always should win then election over before it started.

truth is obama needs to stop the silde and the only way is through a fantastic debate peformance . I say honestly unless that happens this election will be one sided landslide for romney. their still time but obama running out of it to change course of events


----------



## Katzndogz (Oct 13, 2012)

decker said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Biden wasn't there to win.  He was there to keep Ryan from winning.  He was there to interfere and he did.
> ...



Maybe Biden is just a naturally rude person.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 13, 2012)

Seawytch said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> > Seawytch said:
> ...



AARP has transitioned into a left wing political organization. Like most advocacy groups, they soon find out that "hey, we can make some real money doing this!....Then the politicians swoop in promising financial support in return for votes..
NAACP, PETA, AARP, SEIU. The list goes on longer than the Dead Sea Scroll.


----------



## Jroc (Oct 13, 2012)

decker said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > decker said:
> ...



oops sorry I misread your post


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 13, 2012)

All BHO has to do is to stand off Romney this time.  He does not need a massive knockout at all.  He needs to act like a leader who will stand up to the party leader opposing him, which he did not do last time.

It has become clear that Americans as a whole have not forgotten the shambles that the GOP left America in, but rather than a weak leader again, Americans will select Romney.

In other words, this is not about policies as much as about perceived leadership abilities.



decker said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > RCP still has Michigan, Ohio, New Hampshire, and Nevada in the presidential camp, but they have weakened.
> ...


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 13, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> This is going to be a very good debate format, I think.
> 
> MR needs to beat down the President again to ice the election.
> 
> ...



Only if he continues to lie Jake. None of what he said matches the policies he proposes, the party platform or the fact checks. I guess you believe in dictators, not presidents.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 13, 2012)

Jake, how can you admit the GOP left the country in shambles, and then support a guy who wants to do the same things all over again? 

The GOP needs to change. Romney is just enabling all it's bad habits.  




JakeStarkey said:


> All BHO has to do is to stand off Romney this time.  He does not need a massive knockout at all.  He needs to act like a leader who will stand up to the party leader opposing him, which he did not do last time.
> 
> It has become clear that Americans as a whole have not forgotten the shambles that the GOP left America in, but rather than a weak leader again, Americans will select Romney.
> 
> ...


----------



## Jroc (Oct 13, 2012)

Bfgrn said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > This is going to be a very good debate format, I think.
> ...



We have that already


----------



## decker (Oct 13, 2012)

well he can,t afford to get personal. I just saw rupert murdoch a romney supporter tweet that romney need to avoid personal abuse. so he assuming obama will get personal which he need to avoid. be assertive but don,t be personal.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 13, 2012)

decker said:


> well he can,t afford to get personal. I just saw rupert murdoch a romney supporter tweet that romney need to avoid personal abuse. so he assuming obama will get personal which he need to avoid. be assertive but don,t be personal.



Again, Romney isn't going to get away with the shit he pulled in the first debate a second time. 

Not to mention it's a Town Hall style debate, so he's going to get questions from "the little people" who normally do his lawn and stuff.


----------



## decker (Oct 13, 2012)

well true and obama does like the format but he got to ensure he judges it in right tone. i hope he wins debate and can get some mo back into the race.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 13, 2012)

That is a lie, and those who spread that type of lie are not worthy of voting.



Jroc said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 13, 2012)

Obama has to stand off Romney in this debate to have a better than even chance in the election.

If he fails, he will lose that election, an election that looked he would win hands down two Thursdays ago.


----------



## BluePhantom (Oct 13, 2012)

Seawytch said:


> What are you talking about? People who had been covered under Medicare Advantage (where we overpaid for services) are still covered under Medicare. There is no loss in benefits and we cut waste, fraud and abuse out of Medicare. How can a "fiscal conservative" not support that?



That's not the point.  The point is that people have lost Medicare Advantage.  Whether you feel that Medicare Advantage should be eliminated or not is irrelevant to the point of the argument.  The point is that Ryan correctly stated that people had lost it and Biden said no they hadn't.  That was a Biden lie.  When you state "_People who had been covered under Medicare Advantage (where we overpaid for services) are still covered under Medicare_" you clearly concede that people have indeed lost that coverage.  Thank you very much.





Seawytch said:


> We aren't in danger of attack anytime soon. Sanctions are working. We don't need to invade another country for the GOP jobs plan.



Irrelevant and no one is talking about an invasion.  Biden stated that Iran doesn't have a delivery vehicle for a nuclear weapon.  That's a *complete *lie and as VP he knows it good and well. And while the Shahab-3 can't hit the US homeland they can sure as hell hit our military bases in the area and our allies in the Middle East. No one is worried about Iran nuking _us_, we're worried about them nuking Israel and using nuclear blackmail to bully OPEC.





Seawytch said:


> The AARP said they don't endorse candidates...they DID endorse the Affordable Care Act.



Biden's statement was about Medicare specifically, not the entire ACA. Obama made the same claim the prior week and AARP told him to shut the fuck up.  Draw your own conclusions.


----------



## California Girl (Oct 13, 2012)




----------



## copsnrobbers (Oct 13, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Obama has to stand off Romney in this debate to have a better than even chance in the election.
> 
> If he fails, he will lose that election, an election that looked he would win hands down two Thursdays ago.



Not to me it didn't. He'll only lose by more after the second debate than the first.


----------



## Bubba (Oct 13, 2012)

I won!


because I didn't watch!

Vice President (candidates) tend to be not worth our respect or time

I have no idea why Mccain (who I liked and respected) picked palin

I have no idea why Obama (who I am ambivalent about) picked biden!

and why did Romney (who i like and respect as a MODERATE republican) pick an evangelical christian like ryan? (obviously because he'll bring in christian votes)

biden, palin and ryan are NOT presidential material!

and it's a disgrace to American politics (and U.S. citizens) that ANY of them were even picked to run

Romney should have picked someone like Mccain
Mccain should have picked someone like Romney
and Obama should have picked someone who was NOT biden or pelosi


----------



## California Girl (Oct 13, 2012)

Bubba said:


> I won!
> 
> 
> because I didn't watch!
> ...



Ryan isn't an 'evangelical Christian', he's your standard Catholic. He believes in Catholic values... that does not mean he wants to force his values on you or anyone else.  No need to panic, he won't hand the country over to Rome.


----------



## skookerasbil (Oct 13, 2012)

Hey Lady.......wonders never cease.............

Was browsing some photo's today and came across one of Dick Tucks house...............









What a surprise huh???!!!!!!!!


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 13, 2012)

California Girl said:


> Bubba said:
> 
> 
> > I won!
> ...



Not by the teachings and human standards of the Catholic Church...

A faith-based lesson for Paul Ryan

There is something un-Christian about the Gospel According to Paul Ryan. So, at least, says Ryans Catholic Church.

In an interview with the Christian Broadcasting Networks David Brody this month, Ryan, the author of the House Republican budget endorsed by Mitt Romney, said his program was crafted using my Catholic faith as inspiration. But the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops was not about to bless that claim.

A week after Ryans boast, the bishops sent letters to Congress saying that the Ryan budget, passed by the House, fails to meet the moral criteria of the Church, namely its view that any budget should help the least of these as the Christian Bible requires: the poor, the hungry, the homeless, the jobless. A just spending bill cannot rely on disproportionate cuts in essential services to poor and vulnerable persons, the bishops wrote.

In fact, Ryan would cut spending on the least of these by about $5 trillion over 10 years  from Medicaid, food stamps, welfare and the like  and then turn around and award some $4 trillion in tax cuts to the most of these. To their credit, Catholic leaders were not about to let Ryan claim to be serving God when in fact he was serving mammon.

Your budget, a group of Jesuit scholars and other Georgetown University faculty members wrote to Ryan last week, appears to reflect the values of your favorite philosopher, Ayn Rand, rather than the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Her call to selfishness and her antagonism toward religion are antithetical to the Gospel values of compassion and love.

Paul Ryans faith-based lesson - The Washington Post


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 13, 2012)

Ryan was criticized by Catholic bishops for his budget's failings to the poor.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 13, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Ryan was criticized by Catholic bishops for his budget's failings to the poor.



And that's the guy your boy Romney picked because he couldnt' stand up to the Teabaggers.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 13, 2012)

Umm . . .you must be tired be wrong all the time, son.  

Romney has no trouble making Ryan heel anymore than he will in making you heel when he is president.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 13, 2012)

California Girl said:


> Ryan isn't an 'evangelical Christian', he's your standard Catholic. He believes in Catholic values... that does not mean he wants to force his values on you or anyone else.  No need to panic, he won't hand the country over to Rome.



He won't hand it over to anyone because he's gonna lose.  

But, yeah, he'd have to have values before he imposed them on anyone.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 13, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> decker said:
> 
> 
> > well he can,t afford to get personal. I just saw rupert murdoch a romney supporter tweet that romney need to avoid personal abuse. so he assuming obama will get personal which he need to avoid. be assertive but don,t be personal.
> ...



What did Romney "get away with"?...Having more facts to bring to the table? Oh no..wait..Romney's people went in to Obama's debate people, paid them off to sabotage Obama's performance?
The people will not be permitted to ask of the candidates directly. Their questions will be written down pre debate and screened.
Obama was unprepared. Romney forced Obama, to debate as though Obama is the current president. Instead of Obama's style of running as though he were the challenger.
Obama is going to be forced to discuss his record. And once again, he will be at a disadvantage. Romney, if he's smart, will hit Obama with the Terror attack on the US Embassy in Libya. He should also nail Obama on his support for Arab Spring AND the Muslim Brotherhood.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 13, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan isn't an 'evangelical Christian', he's your standard Catholic. He believes in Catholic values... that does not mean he wants to force his values on you or anyone else.  No need to panic, he won't hand the country over to Rome.
> ...



No he will not lose.


----------



## Sarah G (Oct 13, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan was criticized by Catholic bishops for his budget's failings to the poor.
> ...



That was one of Romnet's first mistakes other than never getting his stories straight.  Paul Ryan lost big trying to sell that Medicare plan to America.  His staff was throwing Seniors out of his townhalls when they started asking too many questions.



> Paul Ryan and Mitt Romney really are two peas in a pod. In September 2011, Ryan had 5 people kicked out and three others arrested at his town hall because he didnt like their questions.
> 
> Last Fall, Paul Ryan adopted a novel approach to avoiding questions that he didnt want to answer on his budget and the Bush tax cuts. He made his town halls PPV events. Rep. Ryan actually charged people to attend his town halls.
> 
> ...


----------



## thanatos144 (Oct 13, 2012)

Ever notice how it is fine for a progressive to be a catholic but if a conservative is one he is a fanatic???? You progressive are so hypocritical it is sickening.


----------



## AceRothstein (Oct 13, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Ever notice how it is fine for a progressive to be a catholic but if a conservative is one he is a fanatic???? You progressive are so hypocritical it is sickening.



Most Democrats don't let their religious convictions dictate their stance on issues, unlike Republicans.


----------



## Barb (Oct 14, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> decker said:
> 
> 
> > well he can,t afford to get personal. I just saw rupert murdoch a romney supporter tweet that romney need to avoid personal abuse. so he assuming obama will get personal which he need to avoid. be assertive but don,t be personal.
> ...



*heh*


----------



## toomuchtime_ (Oct 14, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> decker said:
> 
> 
> > well he can,t afford to get personal. I just saw rupert murdoch a romney supporter tweet that romney need to avoid personal abuse. so he assuming obama will get personal which he need to avoid. be assertive but don,t be personal.
> ...



No one should have been surprised by the first debate.  Looking back to 2008, on his best days Obama was never more than a mediocre debater, and if you followed the Republican primary debates, you saw that Romney is an excellent debater, aggressive but respectful, focused, disciplined.  Romney won the first debate because when voters saw the real Mitt Romney, not the pack of lies the Obama campaign has been selling, standing shoulder to shoulder with the real Barack Obama, not the myth David Axelrod invented, they found that Romney looked and sounded like a leader, a president, and Obama did not.  They will see the same thing in the second debate.  The voters weren't fooled by Romney, they discovered that they had been fooled by David Axelrod into thinking Obama was more than he really is.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 14, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > decker said:
> ...



Yes, using Ambassador Steven's coffin as a soap box has worked so well for the weird Mormon Robot. 

Romney told total bullshit, lied his ass off even by Mormon standards, and Lehrner let him get away with it.   He won't get away with it next time, to be sure. 

Nor will Obama be as  passive.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 14, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > decker said:
> ...



And I decided to snip the rest of the racist, ODS crap that followed, because it was disconnected from reality.  

Obama did very well in debates against both Hillary Clinton and John McCain, both seasoned debaters.  

Romney was different in that he got up there, lied his ass off, no one called him on it at the time.    He won't get away with it a second time.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 14, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Ever notice how it is fine for a progressive to be a catholic but if a conservative is one he is a fanatic???? You progressive are so hypocritical it is sickening.



I think that if you are trying to impose your religion on other people, no matter what your religion is, that's unacceptable.


----------



## thanatos144 (Oct 14, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > Ever notice how it is fine for a progressive to be a catholic but if a conservative is one he is a fanatic???? You progressive are so hypocritical it is sickening.
> ...



I am not a catholic you bigot .


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 14, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > decker said:
> ...



YEA...THAT will work! PLEASE send Mitten an e-mail demanding he do that...


----------



## LilOlLady (Oct 14, 2012)

Does honesty, integrity on the facts of issues even matters anymore? I have heard nothing on who won on facts and issues. Only who presented the best face. *Smiles or frowns?*


----------



## mudwhistle (Oct 14, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > decker said:
> ...



He's not gonna get away with being a better candidate dammit.


----------



## LilOlLady (Oct 14, 2012)

Obama has 1,000,000 plus lies to nail Romney on.



Daily Kos: YES!! Once Again--ALL OF ROMNEY'S LIES IN ONE PLACE: UPDATED!


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 14, 2012)

When are you ever going to make sense, bigot?



thanatos144 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > thanatos144 said:
> ...


----------



## Barb (Oct 15, 2012)




----------



## mudwhistle (Oct 15, 2012)

LilOlLady said:


> Obama has 1,000,000 plus lies to nail Romney on.
> 
> 
> 
> Daily Kos: YES!! Once Again--ALL OF ROMNEY'S LIES IN ONE PLACE: UPDATED!



Romney has one Obama lie he can use all day.....that al Qaeda is dying and the Libyan attack proves it. 



> .....Al Zawahiri, Osama's second in command, issued a video the day before in Pakistan, calling for revenge against the Americans. A Libyan AQ has just been killed by a Predator strike supposedly directed by President Obama. The week before, a bomb had exploded outside of the compound. All events unusual events, to say the least. All that should have required a heightened state of alertness.) http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/10/al_qaida_strikes_america_america_denies_reality.html


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 15, 2012)

LilOlLady said:


> Obama has 1,000,000 plus lies to nail Romney on.
> 
> 
> 
> Daily Kos: YES!! Once Again--ALL OF ROMNEY'S LIES IN ONE PLACE: UPDATED!



Yes but Obama is "evolving"..

The daily kos?....I think kos isn't quite biased enough.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 15, 2012)

The Libyan incident has been poorly handled from the beginning, mostly by the administration but with less fault, by Romney, too, who shot off his mouth when he had no idea of what he was talking about.

But to suggest that somehow Libya is going to erase the admin's foreign policy accomplishments, not the least being killing Osama, with the American electorate is stupid.


----------



## Jroc (Oct 15, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> The Libyan incident has been poorly handled from the beginning, mostly by the administration but with less fault, by Romney, too, who shot off his mouth when he had no idea of what he was talking about.
> 
> But to suggest that somehow Libya is going to erase the admin's foreign policy accomplishments, not the least being killing Osama, with the American electorate is stupid.



Romney appreciates your "support" Now please don't "help" him He can do without idiots like you


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 15, 2012)

Romney can only win this if he argues what he can do economically in the future.  He cannot win points on international topics. is hurting Romney by suggesting that Libya is going to be of any help tomorrow night.   If MR pushes it, BHO is going to use it to talk about the WH accomplishments overseas.

I have said from the beginning that the American people rightfully hate the GOP for their irresponsible adventurism from 1994 to 2006 and the Busn neo-con imperialism and spending that has nearly crashed America.

Obama has not been a good president, but has been far better than Bush.  Jroc's nonsense only underlines the truth of what I have said.  Turn our backs on Bush, look forward on the economic front, ignore everything else, particularly from the far right.


----------



## Jroc (Oct 15, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Romney can only win this if he argues what he can do economically in the future.  *He cannot win points on international topics*. is hurting Romney by suggesting that Libya is going to be of any help tomorrow night.   If MR pushes it, BHO is going to use it to talk about the WH accomplishments overseas.
> 
> I have said from the beginning that the American people rightfully hate the GOP for their irresponsible adventurism from 1994 to 2006 and the Busn neo-con imperialism and spending that has nearly crashed America.
> 
> Obama has not been a good president, but has been far better than Bush.  Jroc's nonsense only underlines the truth of what I have said.  Turn our backs on Bush, look *forward *on the economic front, ignore everything else, particularly from the far right.



Please....the Libyan debacle is party responsible for Obama's drop in the polls, you're an idiot...And "forward" is Obama's slogan get it straight fraud


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 15, 2012)

Please you idiot.  Libya is a minor issue that distracts from the far larger one, the economy.  If MR brings up Libya, Obama will use it as an opening to talk about his foreign policy accomplishments and drag Bush's mistaken and failed policies into the debate.

Most Americans hate the Bush presidency, Jroc.  If they did not, MR would be ahead by 15 points.

Do not let BHO bring up foreign policy and Bush.  That would be disastrous.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 15, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> The Libyan incident has been poorly handled from the beginning, mostly by the administration but with less fault, by Romney, too, who shot off his mouth when he had no idea of what he was talking about.
> 
> But to suggest that somehow Libya is going to erase the admin's foreign policy accomplishments, not the least being killing Osama, with the American electorate is stupid.



Which foreign policy accomplishments might those be?


----------



## Jroc (Oct 15, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > The Libyan incident has been poorly handled from the beginning, mostly by the administration but with less fault, by Romney, too, who shot off his mouth when he had no idea of what he was talking about.
> ...



They are only in Jake's little college boy branwashed head...They don't really exist or Jake would have named them..... Oh yeah "Bin ladens dead and GM is alive" Poor little clueless boy


----------



## Barb (Oct 15, 2012)

Jroc said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Romney can only win this if he argues what he can do economically in the future.  *He cannot win points on international topics*. is hurting Romney by suggesting that Libya is going to be of any help tomorrow night.   If MR pushes it, BHO is going to use it to talk about the WH accomplishments overseas.
> ...









Clinton: GOP's State Dept. cuts 'detrimental' to national security - The Hill - covering Congress, Politics, Political Campaigns and Capitol Hill | TheHill.com

Republican leadership's FY11 budget cuts would endanger national security, Clinton says

GOP Rep: I 'Absolutely' Voted To Cut Funding For Embassy Security | ThinkProgress

44 - Secretary Clinton: House Republican budget cuts will endanger national security 


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 16, 2012)

It looks this morning as if MR has surmounted his lack of likability by the voters.

He is on track to win this thing.


----------



## Jroc (Oct 16, 2012)

Barb said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



You fail and so does Joe Biden and Media matters 

*Marines on 9/11/12 Were Protecting U.S. Embassy--in Barbados*










> When terrorists attacked the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya, on Sept. 11 of this year and killed the U.S. ambassador and three other Americans, there were no U.S. Marines deployed in Libya to defend U.S. diplomats, diplomatic facilities and classified information and equipment.
> 
> However, says the State Department, a Marine Security Detachment was deployed on that day to carry out those duties at the U.S. Embassy in Bridgetown, Barbados.
> 
> ...



State Dept. Confirms: Marines on 9/11/12 Were Protecting U.S. Embassy--in Barbados | CNSNews.com


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 16, 2012)

Jroc and the neo-cons are over.  They will have no weight at all in a Romney administration.

Romney believes that GWB and his far right crew of advisers nearly destroyed the country, and  Romney will not let that happean again.

Thank heavens adults will be in charge.


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 16, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Jroc and the neo-cons are over.  They will have no weight at all in a Romney administration.
> 
> Romney believes that GWB and his far right crew of advisers nearly destroyed the country, and  Romney will not let that happean again.
> 
> Thank heavens adults will be in charge.



That's why all the lobbyists are lining up for business as usual under Bush, if Romney wins.

Lobbyists ready for a comeback under Mitt Romney

Industry insiders believe that Mitt Romney will unshackle the revolving door and give lobbyists a shot at the government jobs their Democratic counterparts have been denied for the past four years, a dozen Republican lobbyists said in conversations with POLITICO.

"I've heard they are likely not to black ball anybody from any particular sector," said Republican lobbyist Sam Geduldig at Clark, Lytle & Geduldig. "I assume, everyone is welcome to apply. I'm sure they are interested in getting the best people possible."

Allowing lobbyists back into the White House could be a PR nightmare early on in a new administration, some Republicans fear. Romney would have to toss out Obamas orders, which shook up how President George W. Bush did business and let Obama claim his agenda wouldnt be hijacked by special interests.

Read more: Lobbyists ready for a comeback under Mitt Romney - POLITICO.com


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 16, 2012)

Bfgrn and the lefties are talking crap, move along.


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 16, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Bfgrn and the lefties are talking crap, move along.



If moderate is your desire, then Romney is not your man. Nothing he has proposed is moderate. Nothing in his party's platform is moderate and nothing moderate will manifest in a Romney presidency. So you are facing a conundrum Jake. It appears a man crush has crushed your ideals.

Call me all the names you wish, it will not change any FACTS.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 16, 2012)

Bf bud, you have no cred.  Move along.  Who has called you a name?


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 16, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Bf bud, you have no cred.  Move along.  Who has called you a name?



You have Jake. You know I am not a far leftist. And I have plenty of cred. You have refused to see who this guy Mitten really is. His father's long time aide Walter De Vries wrote a letter slamming Mitt for his frequent shifts in policy positions, calling Romneys campaign a far cry from the kind of campaign and conduct, as a public servant, I saw during the seven years I worked in George Romneys campaigns and served him as governor.

Mitt Romney attacked as 'flip-flopper' by his father's former aide

*Mitt Romney was sharply criticized by a longtime aide to his late father yesterday as an unprincipled flip-flopper who would "would say and do anything" to win the US presidency.*

Walter De Vries said that the Republican presidential challenger had shown himself to be a pale imitation of George Romney, a former governor of Michigan and businessman idolized by his son.

"The conduct of Mitt Romney's presidential campaign is a far cry from the kind of campaign and conduct, as a public servant, I saw during the seven years I worked in George Romney's campaigns and served him as governor," he wrote in an essay distributed to reporters. 

He said Mitt Romney and his team "see campaigns as television marketing and voters as targets to be manipulated," adding: "Policy papers [and] positions are rare and short on content and meaning." A video clip played to supporters at Mitt Romney rallies shows his father making an impassioned speech about being in politics to help America's poor and vulnerable  an unfortunate contrast to his son's secretly-recorded dismissal of 47 per cent of voters as government-dependent "victims".

Mitt Romney has also shifted positions on key issues "in erratic and startling ways", noted Mr De Vries, who accused him of moving to the Right, back to the centre and to the Right again. 

From De Vries' essay:

After the first debate it was wife Ann who said that Mitt had written Dad on paper he had at the lectern. Mrs. Romney, described as choking up during a post-debate interview with CNN, said it signified that Mitt respected what his father taught me and what kind of person you are and Im going to honor that.

While that might make for some good post-debate spin, perhaps exploitation of his late fathers memory and dramatic television, the conduct of Mitt Romneys presidential campaign is a far cry from the kind of campaign and conduct, as a public servant, I saw during the seven years I worked in George Romneys campaigns and served him as governor.

Mitt Romney and the people around him see campaigns as television marketing and voters as targets to be manipulated. Voters, they believe, make up their minds late and will be swayed with saturation television advertising. The campaign managers seek  daily it seems  for a magic bullet to force on the electorate that will move undecided and weak voters to Romney. Policy papers, positions are rare and short on content and meaning.

Ive tried to track Mitt Romneys shifts  some 180 degrees others 360  on key issues during the campaign. Ive stopped at 30: abortion, stem-cell research; climate change and global warming; campaign finance; and equal pay for women are just a few.

As you campaign, so shall you govern. That lesson from father to son, seems to be lost in the win-at-any-cost fog of politics in the 21st century.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How about this 'leftist' Jake?

Mitt Romney: The Great Deformer

by David Stockman

*Is Romney really a job creator? Ronald Reagans budget director, David Stockman, takes a scalpel to the claims.*

Bain Capital is a product of the Great Deformation. It has garnered fabulous winnings through leveraged speculation in financial markets that have been perverted and deformed by decades of money printing and Wall Street coddling by the Fed. So Bains billions of profits were not rewards for capitalist creation; they were mainly windfalls collected from gambling in markets that were rigged to rise.

Nevertheless, Mitt Romney claims that his essential qualification to be president is grounded in his 15 years as head of Bain Capital, from 1984 through early 1999. According to the campaigns narrative, it was then that he became immersed in the toils of business enterprise, learning along the way the true secrets of how to grow the economy and create jobs. The fact that Bains returns reputedly averaged more than 50 percent annually during this period is purportedly proof of the casereal-world validation that Romney not only was a striking business success but also has been uniquely trained and seasoned for the task of restarting the nations sputtering engines of capitalism.

Except Mitt Romney was not a businessman; he was a master financial speculator who bought, sold, flipped, and stripped businesses. He did not build enterprises the old-fashioned wayout of inspiration, perspiration, and a long slog in the free market fostering a new product, service, or process of production. Instead, he spent his 15 years raising debt in prodigious amounts on Wall Street so that Bain could purchase the pots and pans and castoffs of corporate America, leverage them to the hilt, gussy them up as reborn roll-ups, and then deliver them back to Wall Street for resalethe faster the better.

That is the modus operandi of the leveraged-buyout business, and in an honest free-market economy, there wouldnt be much scope for it because it creates little of economic value. But we have a rigged systema regime of crony capitalismwhere the tax code heavily favors debt and capital gains, and the central bank purposefully enables rampant speculation by propping up the price of financial assets and battering down the cost of leveraged finance.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What now Jake? Leftist plot? Or you could parrot the Frank refrain...RINOS


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 16, 2012)

Lefty talking points, nothing else.

What I love about all of this is that Romney is going to be hated by the far left and the far right by the end of his presidency.


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 16, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Lefty talking points, nothing else.
> 
> What I love about all of this is that Romney is going to be hated by the far left and the far right by the end of his presidency.



Lefty talking points? From Walter De Vries, George Romney's long time aide and David Stockman, Ronald Reagan's budget director??

OK, whatever you say...FRANK


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 16, 2012)

So you have a few insiders whose words you twist.

So what do we end up with: lefty talking points.

OK, whatever you say . . . HUGGY


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 16, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> So you have a few insiders whose words you twist.
> 
> So what do we end up with: lefty talking points.
> 
> OK, whatever you say . . . HUGGY



First of all, I didn't 'twist' anyone's words. I quoted them verbatim. And if you are going to make that accusation, you have to prove it Jake. 

Mitten has flip flopped on over 30 issues, his proposals offer no details and none of his RINO talk at the first debate is backed up in policy proposals or party platform. 

But Jake knows Mitten!!! Where do you feel it, in your knees Monica???


From Walter De Vries essay VERBATIM:

"Since 2005, when he first decided to seek the presidency, his political posture and positions have shifted in erratic and startling ways, to the right, to the middle, to the right and shifting still.

Mitt Romney and the people around him see campaigns as television marketing and voters as targets to be manipulated. Voters, they believe, make up their minds late and will be swayed with saturation television advertising. The campaign managers seek  daily it seems  for a magic bullet to force on the electorate that will move undecided and weak voters to Romney.

Policy papers, positions are rare and short on content and meaning.

Ive tried to track Mitt Romneys shifts  some 180 degrees others 360  on key issues during the campaign. Ive stopped at 30: abortion, stem-cell research; climate change and global warming; campaign finance; and equal pay for women are just a few."

Hey Jake, if consider Walter De Vries and David Stockman leftists, that would put you to the right of Frank, Liability, EdwardBaiamonte, PoliticalChic, LadyGunSlinger,  Uncensored2008, and Vel...


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 16, 2012)

Stop the lefty talking points, kiddos.  You are down to eating grass, arentca?


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 16, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Stop the lefty talking points, kiddos.  You are down to eating grass, arentca?



Are you saying Walter De Vries, George Romney's long time aide and David Stockman, Ronald Reagan's budget director are leftists?

Yes or no?


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 16, 2012)

Are you a lefty, yes or no?

You are and that makes you the mirror copy of a Tea Party wack on our side.

We don't need either side of wacks making any policy.


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 16, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Are you a lefty, yes or no?
> 
> You are and that makes you the mirror copy of a Tea Party wack on our side.
> 
> We don't need either side of wacks making any policy.



Don't have the courage or honesty to answer the question, 'eh Jake. 

But I'll answer yours. I am a liberal. I have been a liberal all my adult life. Our nation was founded by the most liberal thinkers of their time. My centrist beliefs have been the same for 50 years Jake. If I had to describe those beliefs, they are very much in line with our late President Kennedy. And another man who I admire is Barry Goldwater. I've witnessed a drastic change in my country. A conservative era that began with Nixon, festered with Reagan and ruptured under George W. Bush has eviscerated the robust middle class in America. A new Gilded Age is the final outcome. It was from the beginning. It will take decades of Second New Deal type policies to return that middle class to what was it once was.

The Republican Party is morally bankrupt. It is no longer a viable party for We, the People. It it is now the party that caterers solely to the top 1%. If Romney is elected, the biggest polluters in this country will set our energy and environmental policies. If Romney is elected Wall Street will determine our economic policies. If Romney is elected, citizens who can't afford health insurance will be directed by the president named Romney to go to the emergency room. And if Romney is elected, the words public and common trust will be eliminated.

Your man Mitten is not the answer Jake, he is cut from the same cloth as Bush.

Your man Mitten is to the right of Barry Goldwater. Think about THAT Jake. The so called centrist you worship is to the right of the father of modern conservatism.

So, if Jack Kennedy and Barry Goldwater are 'leftists' that should be sanctioned, then so am I Jake.

"Harry Truman once said, 'There are 14 or 15 million Americans who have the resources to have representatives in Washington to protect their interests, and that the interests of the great mass of the other people - the 150 or 160 million - is the responsibility of the president of the United States, and I propose to fulfill it.'"
President John F. Kennedy

"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the Republican party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."
Barry Goldwater


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 17, 2012)

And bfgrn is now channeling JFK and Goldwater both!  Wow!!


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 17, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> And bfgrn is now channeling JFK and Goldwater both!  Wow!!



Yea, JFK and Goldwater...imagine that...

Goldwater, JFK Election Campaign In '64 Might Have Offered Public A Great Debate

Since his death, much of the conversation about Goldwater has recalled his 1964 presidential campaign against Lyndon B. Johnson. And why not? It was the election that launched the modern conservative movement as well as the career of Ronald Reagan.

A few years ago I interviewed many people about that 1964 campaign and stumbled across an interesting tidbit: It was the election that could have changed American politics.

In 1963, Goldwater and his friend, John F. Kennedy, shared a radical plan: The two men would campaign as a team. The Republican and the Democratic president would barnstorm the country and speak on the same platform. The ideas - conservative vs. liberal - would be debated and the election would be a referendum on public policy.

"I knew him as a close friend and I had really looked forward to running against him in the election that was to be held," Goldwater wrote after Kennedy's death in 1963. The two candidates planned to stump the country "like politicians should do. Standing up to state our points, our issues, and then debating each other."

Imagine that. These two politicians could have built a stage for a politics of discourse, a test of ideas. Goldwater was fond of JFK. It was a friendship that did not require affirmation; they could agree to disagree.

Kennedy's assassination ended the notion of a joint campaign stage.

Goldwater even withdrew from the Republican field, saying he no longer had the stomach for a campaign. However, in January of 1964, after much pressure from his colleagues, he took up the fight against Johnson. Goldwater promised a Scottsdale crowd: "I will not change my beliefs to win votes. I will offer a choice, not an echo."

That choice did not include side-by-side comparisons with the Democratic nominee. Goldwater had no use for Johnson.


Imagine THAT...

Equality, rightly understood as our founding fathers understood it, leads to liberty and to the emancipation of creative differences; wrongly understood, as it has been so tragically in our time, it leads first to conformity and then to despotism. 
Barry Goldwater

We have all made mistakes. But Dante tells us that divine justice weighs the sins of the cold-blooded and the sins of the warm-hearted on different scales. Better the occasional faults of a party living in the spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a party frozen in the ice of its own indifference.
President John F. Kennedy


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 17, 2012)

Jake thinks Mitt is really a moderate, who is going to be a liberal once he gets elected.  

It's horseshit. 





Bfgrn said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Are you a lefty, yes or no?
> ...


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 17, 2012)

Mitt is a moderate Republican.

Lefty JoeB and Lefty Bfgrn are . . . lefties.

Own up to your infirmity, guys.


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 17, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Mitt is a moderate Republican.
> 
> Lefty JoeB and Lefty Bfgrn are . . . lefties.
> 
> Own up to your infirmity, guys.



Whatever you say Frank...


----------



## AceRothstein (Oct 17, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Mitt is a moderate Republican.
> 
> Lefty JoeB and Lefty Bfgrn are . . . lefties.
> 
> Own up to your infirmity, guys.



Sometimes Mitt is a moderate, sometimes he isn't.

I could probably handle a moderate Mitt presidency but with him talking out of both sides of his mouth, I just can't trust that he would actually be moderate Mitt.


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 17, 2012)

AceRothstein said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Mitt is a moderate Republican.
> ...



If you track Mitten's political career like a close aide of his father, it boils down to this:

Whatever you want to hear, whether you are from the far left or the far right...Mitten will _tell you_ he supports it. Just don't ask for any details, policies, studies or platforms to back it up.

It used to be that integrity and honesty were important, but folks like Jake who are smitten with Mitten just worship.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 17, 2012)

Bfgrn said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Mitt is a moderate Republican.
> ...



Thanks. . . Huggy


----------



## Dick Tuck (Oct 17, 2012)




----------



## NYcarbineer (Oct 17, 2012)

Old lady gunslinger seems to oddly reticent the morning after the latest debate.


----------



## thanatos144 (Oct 17, 2012)

NYcarbineer said:


> Old lady gunslinger seems to oddly reticent the morning after the latest debate.



Maybe unlike you she has a life.


----------



## Dick Tuck (Oct 17, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Old lady gunslinger seems to oddly reticent the morning after the latest debate.
> ...



I doubt it.


----------



## thanatos144 (Oct 17, 2012)

Dick Tuck said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



Not everyone can be like you and live on welfare.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 17, 2012)

Bfgrn said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Are you a lefty, yes or no?
> ...


You are a liberal or a centrist. You cannot be both.
Nixon was not even CLOSE to being a conservative. Nixon was a typical California liberal. Nixon governed as a central planner. Not a centrist.
New deal? Yer kidding. First more massive government spending will go only to further scuttle the economy.
Second....Today's entitlement minded waiting for a government handout types would NEVER tolerate a "work for welfare" or even the promise of a good paying job for a set period of time. Social safety nets have gotten much too easy to get, too lucrative and too easy to stay on.
In effect, the current recipient of taxpayer largess already HAS a new deal. 
The best way to grow the middle class is for the government to get the hell out of the way of the private sector, stop proposing more taxes, higher taxes, and more regulations.
No government program, no mandate or other scheme will help anyone.
Government needs to get the hell out of the way of the economy.
NO...No one is saying there should be no regulations, no laws, no control as is the liberal straw man argument.
As for the rest of your rants about pollution and medical care....Please no more liberal talking points. 
Yes I am quite sure Romney will simply snap his fingers and all EPA regualtions will be rescinded. The Clean Air Act..Gone. All who are incapable of affording private medical insurance, to hell with you. Get sick and die. Sure.
Obama is ruling, not governing, by executive fiat. We've had enough of the self proclaimed elected king. 
Obama's policies have created an almost flat GDP growth rate over the time he  has been in office. Obama has created over 6 trillion dollars in new debt since taking office. 
Unemployment has been over 8% for his entire administration. Obama has shown no leadership nor has been willing to take any of the responsibility for the terrible economy and non -existent foreign policy. "When I took office I inherited quite a mess"..
Ok, if Obama is as great as a president as you people claim him to be, then why is Obama making excuses such as "I inherited a mess".."I have tried but it's harder than I thought"
Well Mr President, if the job is harder than you thought, then what makes you think you are now qualified for the Office of POTUS...?


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 17, 2012)

Bfgrn said:


> AceRothstein said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...


Other than a few such as Teddy Roosevelt, JFK and Ronald Reagan has EVER told the people what they DID NOT want to hear?
That's why they are called politicians and not statesmen.
So please, if you are implying that "dear leader" has never pandered to a constituency or a specific special interest group, you have not been paying attention. Or you are so biased, you are blinded by that bias.


----------



## Bfgrn (Oct 17, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Thanks for proving my point. My political views have not shifted in 50 years, but now you are saying that the 'center' is somewhere in the middle of right wing views??? I have been saying for years that the two major political parties have both shifted to the right. The GOP has shifted so far to the right is it no longer a viable party for We, the People.

Nixon, a liberal? Surely you jest. I guess you have no knowledge of the man and his sick right wing beliefs, or the 100,000 'California liberals' who ended up in prison because of Nixon's draconian beliefs?

WHO are these 'entitlement minded waiting for a government handout types'...the Romney 47 %ers?

Federal budget and Census data show that, in 2010, 91 percent of the benefit dollars from entitlement and other mandatory programs went to the elderly (people 65 and over), the seriously disabled, and members of working households.  People who are neither elderly nor disabled &#8212; and do not live in a working household &#8212; received only 9 percent of the benefits. 

Moreover, the vast bulk of that 9 percent goes for medical care, unemployment insurance benefits (which individuals must have a significant work history to receive), Social Security survivor benefits for the children and spouses of deceased workers, and Social Security benefits for retirees between ages 62 and 64.  Seven out of the 9 percentage points go for one of these four purposes.

80 percent of the workforce has seen their wages decline in real terms over the last quarter-century, and the average household has seen 40 percent of its wealth disappear during the Great Recession. Through it all, families never asked for a handout from anyone, especially Washington. They were left to go on their own, working harder, squeezing nickels, and taking care of themselves. But their economic boats have been taking on water for years, and now the crisis has swamped millions of middle class families. ref ref

The only people in this country who are the 'entitlement minded waiting for a government handout types' are the Wall Street criminals who crashed our economy and got bonuses and golden parachutes, instead of prison sentences. 

Again, I guess you pay little attention to what conservative presidents believe or do. George W. Bush castrated the Clean Water Act just by changing the meaning of a few terms. 

Or that the current teapublican House of Representatives is the most anti-environmental House in history. In just the year since the GOP took control of the House, there have been at least 159 votes held against environmental protections -- including 83 targeting the Environmental Protection Agency.

And you don't even pay attention to the current right wing corporate shill running for president...

Romney: Uninsured have emergency rooms

GDP growth? Let's take a look at history...






"The legitimate object of Government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done but cannot do at all, or cannot so well do, for themselves in their separate and individual capacities. But in all that people can individually do as well for themselves, Government ought not to interfere."
President Abraham Lincoln


----------

