# How much energy does it take to make 1 gallon of gasoline?



## uscitizen

One must include drilling energy, pumping, and transport from foreign sources if we are going to compare it to ethanol production which is my intent.
Refining energy must also be included.  But not domestic transport since that is needed for ethanol as well.


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## uscitizen

And if we want to compare costs of gas vs ethanol there will be no comparison since we have spent trillions defending oil in the ME.  Not counting hundreds of billions in other forms of govt subsidies to oil security/production.


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## Cuyo

A lot more than it did when crude was seeping out of the ground in Pennsylvania.  One day after all the low hanging fruit is plucked, it will exceed the energy you get from burning a gallon of gasoline, and that will herald the end of the oil age.


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## uscitizen

I am not so sure that the production does not already consume more than 100% of yield in producing gasoline.


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## Ernie S.

uscitizen said:


> I am not so sure that the production does not already consume more than 100% of yield in producing gasoline.


Virtually all of the energy used to produce gasoline is supplied by fuel that is a byproduct of the refining process. Diesel fuel runs generators and pumps. According to Wiki, about 46% of a barrel of crude is sold as gasoline. Seeing that oil companies also sell diesel, heavy fuel oil, tar for road surfaces and oil for lubrication, as well as byproducts used to make plastics, it would seem to me that there must be more energy produced than consumed.


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## uscitizen

Ernie S. said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not so sure that the production does not already consume more than 100% of yield in producing gasoline.
> 
> 
> 
> Virtually all of the energy used to produce gasoline is supplied by fuel that is a byproduct of the refining process. Diesel fuel runs generators and pumps. According to Wiki, about 46% of a barrel of crude is sold as gasoline. Seeing that oil companies also sell diesel, heavy fuel oil, tar for road surfaces and oil for lubrication, as well as byproducts used to make plastics, it would seem to me that there must be more energy produced than consumed.
Click to expand...


the refineries consume tremendous amounts of energy.
the tankers burn large amounts of bunker oil/diesel.
The drilling rigs take energy.

Why is the amojunt of energy to make ethanol readially available and not easy to find for Gasoline?
the liberal media?


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## bripat9643

uscitizen said:


> the refineries consume tremendous amounts of energy.
> the tankers burn large amounts of bunker oil/diesel.
> The drilling rigs take energy.
> 
> Why is the amojunt of energy to make ethanol readially available and not easy to find for Gasoline?
> the liberal media?



The energy consumed is 17% of the useable energy in the resulting fuel

EIA Energy Kids - Oil (petroleum)



> A 42-U.S. gallon barrel of crude oil provides slightly more than 44 gallons of petroleum products. This gain from processing the crude oil is similar to what happens to popcorn, which gets bigger after it's popped. The gain from processing is more than 6%.
> 
> One barrel of crude oil, when refined, produces about 19 gallons of finished motor gasoline, and 10 gallons of diesel, as well as other petroleum products. Most petroleum products are used to produce energy. For instance, many people across the United States use propane to heat their homes.


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## The Infidel

Kind of like asking how much coal the Chevy volt will be burning to drive on the street


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## uscitizen

bripat9643 said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> the refineries consume tremendous amounts of energy.
> the tankers burn large amounts of bunker oil/diesel.
> The drilling rigs take energy.
> 
> Why is the amojunt of energy to make ethanol readially available and not easy to find for Gasoline?
> the liberal media?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The energy consumed is 17% of the useable energy in the resulting fuel
> 
> EIA Energy Kids - Oil (petroleum)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A 42-U.S. gallon barrel of crude oil provides slightly more than 44 gallons of petroleum products. This gain from processing the crude oil is similar to what happens to popcorn, which gets bigger after it's popped. The gain from processing is more than 6%.
> 
> One barrel of crude oil, when refined, produces about 19 gallons of finished motor gasoline, and 10 gallons of diesel, as well as other petroleum products. Most petroleum products are used to produce energy. For instance, many people across the United States use propane to heat their homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Ok that is in the refining process.
How about the transport form overseas for that portion, the drilling, the pumping, etc.

Just want ing to figure it the same way some do for ethanol production.
domestic transport after refining shoudl not count as it is the same for all fuel products.


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## chikenwing

1.5 gal diesel to make 1 gal  ethanol.

And this is straight from Citgo corp.

I installed all the electrical controls to blend ethanol at the loading rack,and had a long talk one day with Citgos head engineer while doing the job.


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## uscitizen

chikenwing said:


> 1.5 gal diesel to make 1 gal  ethanol.
> 
> And this is straight from Citgo corp.
> 
> I installed all the electrical controls to blend ethanol at the loading rack,and had a long talk one day with Citgos head engineer while doing the job.



they should use biodiesel.


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## martybegan

uscitizen said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not so sure that the production does not already consume more than 100% of yield in producing gasoline.
> 
> 
> 
> Virtually all of the energy used to produce gasoline is supplied by fuel that is a byproduct of the refining process. Diesel fuel runs generators and pumps. According to Wiki, about 46% of a barrel of crude is sold as gasoline. Seeing that oil companies also sell diesel, heavy fuel oil, tar for road surfaces and oil for lubrication, as well as byproducts used to make plastics, it would seem to me that there must be more energy produced than consumed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the refineries consume tremendous amounts of energy.
> the tankers burn large amounts of bunker oil/diesel.
> The drilling rigs take energy.
> 
> Why is the amojunt of energy to make ethanol readially available and not easy to find for Gasoline?
> the liberal media?
Click to expand...



In comparing energy sources you can't just go by the energy to produce vs. the energy availible. The issues of "density, portablility, and reliability also come up. Density is how much energy you get out of it per unit volume, which is why gasoline is better for a car than say wood. Portability is related to density, as well as how easy it is to transfer from storage to use. This is why liquid gasoline is superior to say a solid form, like high quality coal for automotive use. Finally is reliability. This is where the ICE using gas or diesel beats out things like electrics, or solar powered cars. This includes the infrastructure required to keep you supplied with said fuel.

The issue with ethanol or biodiesel, is that unless we figure out a way to make it out of waste products, you have to grow something to make it. That needs land, lead time, and once this is done, basically similar refining techniques to make it into a fuel. I'm not dismissing ethanol/biodiesel out of hand, just worrying that the amount of land required to grow enough corn/algae/PLANT X to supplant gasoline would not be feasible.


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## Truthmatters

Maybe ending the oil subsidies will effect this number?


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## martybegan

Truthmatters said:


> Maybe ending the oil subsidies will effect this number?



So gas can go from $4.00 a gallon to $6.00 a gallon?


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## Truthmatters

whats the differance we already pay that in subsidies


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## martybegan

Truthmatters said:


> whats the differance we already pay that in subsidies



Like any tax based expenditure, the true cost is hidden. Also it is spread out, and thus is probably less in taxes than the effect you would see at the pump.

Add in the fact that it is a commodity and traded, any increase would have a ripple effect via speculation and hedging by refiners/users. 

Or to scale it, the subsidies (really tax breaks) amount to $4 billion a year. assuming 300M americans, thats a total of $13.33 per person. Big savings there. 

Hell lets cut the number in 1/2 to represent taxpayers. You are now up to $26.66 saved per person cutting this, without knowing how it would increase costs later on. 

But keep going after the lefts favorite boogeyman. OOOGA BOOOGA.


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## chikenwing

uscitizen said:


> chikenwing said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1.5 gal diesel to make 1 gal  ethanol.
> 
> And this is straight from Citgo corp.
> 
> I installed all the electrical controls to blend ethanol at the loading rack,and had a long talk one day with Citgos head engineer while doing the job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they should use biodiesel.
Click to expand...


Not much difference,still takes more to make less??


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## editec

I don't know, but I think some of us might find this interesting 

FuelGGEBTU/unit

Gasoline (base)[2]1 US gallon114,000 BTU/galGasoline (conventional, summer)[2]0.996 US gallon *114,500 BTU/

galGasoline (conventional, winter)[2]1.013 US gallon *112,500 BTU/ galGasoline 

(reformulated gasoline, ethanol)[2]1.019 US gallon *111,836BTU/gal

Gasoline (reformulated gasoline, ETBE)[2]1.019 US gallon *111,811BTU/

galGasoline (reformulated gasoline, MTBE)[2]1.020 US gallon *111,745 BTU/

galGasoline (10% MBTE)[3]1.02 US gallon112,000 BTU/

gallonGasoline (regular unleaded)[4]1 US gallon114,100 BTU/

galDiesel #2[4]0.88 US gallons129,500 BTU/gal

Biodiesel (B100)[4]0.96 US gallons118,300 BTU/galBio Diesel (B20)[4]0.90 US gallons127,250 BTU/gal

Liquid natural gas (LNG)[4]1.52 US gallons75,000 BTU/gal

Compressed natural gas (CNG)[4]126.67 cu ft (3.587 m3)900 BTU/cu ft

Hydrogen at 101.325 kPa357.37 cu ft319 BTU/cu ft[5]Hydrogen by weight0.997 kg (2.198 lb)[6]119.9 MJ/kg (51,500 BTU/lb)

[7]Liquefied petroleum gas(propane) (LPG)[4]1.35 US gallons84,300 BTU/galMethanol fuel (M100)[4]2.01 US gallons56,800 BTU/gal

Ethanol fuel (E100)[4]1.500 US gallons76,100 BTU/galEthanol (E85)[4]1.39 US gallons81,800 BTU/galJet fuel 

(naphtha)[8]0.97 US gallons118,700 BTU/galJet fuel 

(kerosene)[8]0.90 US gallons128,100 BTU/galElectricity33.40 kilowatt-hours *3,413 BTU/(kW·h) [9][10]*calculated based on 114,000 BTU/gal base gasolineFuelGGEBTU/unit


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## williehouston3

I am doing a paper on how much electricity that it takes to produce one gallon of gasoline from exploration to the gas station. If anyone has any helpful links to for this I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks..!


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## beagle9

uscitizen said:


> One must include drilling energy, pumping, and transport from foreign sources if we are going to compare it to ethanol production which is my intent.
> Refining energy must also be included.  But not domestic transport since that is needed for ethanol as well.


You will have to keep in mind however, that there are different types of energies that are being used in the input, and this in order to create the precise energy that becomes the final product as the output, all in which is desired by us to fuel the economic engine that moves the economy in which we all depend on. Now nothing so far beats the results found in gasoline and diesel at the end of the chain, in which powers the economy in ways that no other energy can. So the final product is the most important here, because it determins the power that is found behind the engine that drives a strong economy all because of.

Example: Can an electric car do what a gasoline driven car can do, as far as endurance and power goes to get the ultimate job done ? No it cannot, but the electric car could perform well upon a grid or within an enviroment that is designed to work best for the electric car and it's owner. Otherwise it is more economical to operate an electric car within a city or community where conditions are just right in application of, in which suits the car to be at it's best in those conditions, but outside of that grid, the electric car as does other alternative methods of transportation fails against the gasoline and diesel driven vehicles. These are vehicles that need long standing endurance and power to get the job done. It matters not about the different types of energies that are being used to get to the final gold that is found in the final product, just as long as the final product is as good as we expect when we began the journey towards that final product in which is as good as gold in the end when we are finished with it.

This is my thoughts on the matter, but help me tweak my analysis if I am way off course here.


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## daveman

bripat9643 said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> the refineries consume tremendous amounts of energy.
> the tankers burn large amounts of bunker oil/diesel.
> The drilling rigs take energy.
> 
> Why is the amojunt of energy to make ethanol readially available and not easy to find for Gasoline?
> the liberal media?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The energy consumed is 17% of the useable energy in the resulting fuel
> 
> EIA Energy Kids - Oil (petroleum)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A 42-U.S. gallon barrel of crude oil provides slightly more than 44 gallons of petroleum products. This gain from processing the crude oil is similar to what happens to popcorn, which gets bigger after it's popped. The gain from processing is more than 6%.
> 
> One barrel of crude oil, when refined, produces about 19 gallons of finished motor gasoline, and 10 gallons of diesel, as well as other petroleum products. Most petroleum products are used to produce energy. For instance, many people across the United States use propane to heat their homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Far, FAR more efficient than ethanol production, which doesn't even break even.


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## daveman

martybegan said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe ending the oil subsidies will effect this number?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So gas can go from $4.00 a gallon to $6.00 a gallon?
Click to expand...


I am a Democrat because I believe in the environment and conservation. For instance, we must raise the price of gasoline, like they do in Europe, to increase conservation. If we don't, there will soon be a big gas shortage, and this will mean higher gasoline prices for you and me.


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## daveman

martybegan said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> whats the differance we already pay that in subsidies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like any tax based expenditure, the true cost is hidden. Also it is spread out, and thus is probably less in taxes than the effect you would see at the pump.
> 
> Add in the fact that it is a commodity and traded, any increase would have a ripple effect via speculation and hedging by refiners/users.
> 
> Or to scale it, the subsidies (really tax breaks) amount to $4 billion a year. assuming 300M americans, thats a total of $13.33 per person. Big savings there.
> 
> Hell lets cut the number in 1/2 to represent taxpayers. You are now up to $26.66 saved per person cutting this, without knowing how it would increase costs later on.
> 
> But keep going after the lefts favorite boogeyman. OOOGA BOOOGA.
Click to expand...

Funny how they hate subsidies for oil, which is useful necessary to society, but love subsidies to semi-useless green energy sources, innit?

I wonder if TdM knows that the government makes more money off a gallon of gas than the gas company does?


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## beagle9

Ethanol has another problem, it is highly corrosive to boat fuel systems, weed eaters and two cycle engines.


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## RGR

Cuyo said:


> A lot more than it did when crude was seeping out of the ground in Pennsylvania.  One day after all the low hanging fruit is plucked, it will exceed the energy you get from burning a gallon of gasoline, and that will herald the end of the oil age.



It has already happened. The Second Law of Thermodynamics demands that the energy input into creating everything needed to make the gasoline exceeds the energy of the gasoline itself. 

And for the record, easy oil disappeared in 1901. January to be exact. That was the first successful application of a new technology needed to unlock huge new resources of "more difficult" crude for use by humans.


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## RGR

daveman said:


> I am a Democrat[/URL] because I believe in the environment and conservation.



I am an independent because I believe the Democans and Republicrats are incompetent in understanding or protecting the environment and don't want anyone to conserve anything.


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## Mr. H.

I am a Republican because I believe there should be a balance between business and industrial development and environmental protection/conservation.


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## uscitizen

daveman said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> the refineries consume tremendous amounts of energy.
> the tankers burn large amounts of bunker oil/diesel.
> The drilling rigs take energy.
> 
> Why is the amojunt of energy to make ethanol readially available and not easy to find for Gasoline?
> the liberal media?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The energy consumed is 17% of the useable energy in the resulting fuel
> 
> EIA Energy Kids - Oil (petroleum)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A 42-U.S. gallon barrel of crude oil provides slightly more than 44 gallons of petroleum products. This gain from processing the crude oil is similar to what happens to popcorn, which gets bigger after it's popped. The gain from processing is more than 6%.
> 
> One barrel of crude oil, when refined, produces about 19 gallons of finished motor gasoline, and 10 gallons of diesel, as well as other petroleum products. Most petroleum products are used to produce energy. For instance, many people across the United States use propane to heat their homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Far, FAR more efficient than ethanol production, which doesn't even break even.
Click to expand...


We spent thousands of lives and over 1 trillion to protect oil supplies over the last 10 years, how much do we spend to protect corn supplies?


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## beagle9

uscitizen said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The energy consumed is 17% of the useable energy in the resulting fuel
> 
> EIA Energy Kids - Oil (petroleum)
> 
> 
> 
> Far, FAR more efficient than ethanol production, which doesn't even break even.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We spent thousands of lives and over 1 trillion to protect oil supplies over the last 10 years, how much do we spend to protect corn supplies?
Click to expand...

Was it that we were doing this by which you claim, in order to keep our own resources in abundance and secure for the continued future strength of this nation down the road, otherwise by keeping our resources un-tapped for the most part, and then making use of the vast resources of other nations that didn't mind doing all the hard work and drilling for the big pay off / the money ? I mean look at Dubi for example, wasn't it created from oil wealth ? The problem for us now, is that we have been undermined by our own in this nation, whom have led those in other nations to think of us as these very bad "blue eyed" devils, and espcially so with this Hugo Chavez who likes to make claims against those whom he considers to be prominant Americans for whom are players in this game that is being played. Then we have Obama running around trying to act as if we are the enemy to the world, and that we need to be taught a lesson according to his brain washing from his past. It's so wonder that we can get a fair deal at all anymore within the world, even though we are still the richest nation through our resources that we still posess, and that are resources of all kinds within this nation still.


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## daveman

RGR said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a Democrat[/URL] because I believe in the environment and conservation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am an independent because I believe the Democans and Republicrats are incompetent in understanding or protecting the environment and don't want anyone to conserve anything.
Click to expand...

Yay you.  I take it you didn't read the link.


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## koshergrl

uscitizen said:


> I am not so sure that the production does not already consume more than 100% of yield in producing gasoline.


That's because you're a fucking idiot.

Biofuels most certainly do consume more energy than they produce...as does windmill energy.


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## Dot Com

Truthmatters said:


> Maybe ending the oil subsidies will effect this number?



Exactly, What do they get again? $8 BILLION in special industry tax breaks so that they can turn a tidy profit?


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## daveman

uscitizen said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The energy consumed is 17% of the useable energy in the resulting fuel
> 
> EIA Energy Kids - Oil (petroleum)
> 
> 
> 
> Far, FAR more efficient than ethanol production, which doesn't even break even.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We spent thousands of lives and over 1 trillion to protect oil supplies over the last 10 years, how much do we spend to protect corn supplies?
Click to expand...

Are you still bitterly clinging to the ridiculous idea that the war was about oil?   

We get more oil from Nigeria than we do from Iraq.

Last year, we imported 1.68 million barrels of oil from Iraq.  That's only 10% of the oil we imported from OPEC, and only 4.7% of total imports.

Meanwhile, corn production for ethanol is blamed for a dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico the size of New Jersey:

Dead zone in gulf linked to ethanol production - SFGate

Anyone who claims ethanol is good for the environment is a moron.


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## daveman

Dot Com said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe ending the oil subsidies will effect this number?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly, What do they get again? $8 BILLION in special industry tax breaks so that they can turn a tidy profit?
Click to expand...

...as opposed to green energy, which can't turn a profit at all, even with subsidies?


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## Mr. H.

The oil and gas industries are not afforded subsidies.


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## koshergrl

uscitizen said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The energy consumed is 17% of the useable energy in the resulting fuel
> 
> EIA Energy Kids - Oil (petroleum)
> 
> 
> 
> Far, FAR more efficient than ethanol production, which doesn't even break even.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We spent thousands of lives and over 1 trillion to protect oil supplies over the last 10 years, how much do we spend to protect corn supplies?
Click to expand...


Moron.


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## daveman

Ethanol Subsidies: Not Gone, Just Hidden a Little Better | Mother Jones

Here is Aaron Smith, writing a couple of days ago for the conservative American Enterprise Institute:

Deficit hawks, environmentalists, and food processors are celebrating the expiration of the ethanol tax credit. This corporate handout gave $0.45 to ethanol producers for every gallon they produced and cost taxpayers $6 billion in 2011. So why did the powerful corn ethanol lobby let it expire without an apparent fight? The answer lies in legislation known as the Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS), which creates government-guaranteed demand that keeps corn prices high and generates massive farm profits. Removing the tax credit but keeping the RFS is like scraping a little frosting from the ethanol-boondoggle cake.

The RFS mandates that at least 37 percent of the 2011-12 corn crop be converted to ethanol and blended with the gasoline that powers our cars[As a result] the current price of corn on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange is about $6.50 per bushelalmost triple the pre-mandate level.​
As the Congressional Budget Office wrote back in 2010, "In the future, the scheduled increase in mandated volumes would require biofuels to be produced in amounts that are probably beyond what the market would produce even if the effects of the tax credits were included." [Italics mine.] In other words, the mandates have grown so large that the tax credits barely made a difference anymore. Demand for ethanol is driven by the mandates, not by the tax credit. When you take away the tax credit, nothing happens: Demand stays high because the law says so, corn prices go up accordingly, and corn farmers stay rich. The subsidies were a nice little fillip on top of that, but at this point it's basically chump change.​


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## Mr. H.

There is so much overproduction of ethanol, that 20% is exported.

Funny, I don't seem to remember that being one of the original goals of this program.


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## beagle9

Dot Com said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe ending the oil subsidies will effect this number?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly, What do they get again? $8 BILLION in special industry tax breaks so that they can turn a tidy profit?
Click to expand...

What drives me crazy, is when they go up, up, up on the price, but the quality of the product comes down down down, thus equating to more exceeding profits to be taken in the situation. How do I know this ? It's simple really, because my pick up truck lets me know this when I fill it up at the pump, and then how it runs afterwards. Sometimes I can get good results from the octane and quality of the gasoline I put into the tank (no spark rattle), but then when this price gets super high, and I fill up with the same type of gas that I always fill up with (unleaded regular), my truck begins running like crap afterwards. Now I am not sure if the gas stations is cutting corners (trying to capitalize on the high prices), and this by squeezing in some of the lower quality gas at a very low wholesale price back to them, and then taking advantage of the high prices in which the government is turning a blind eye towards when it comes to consumer protections, or really what is going on in all of this mess that we are being subjected to now in this nation.


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## beagle9

Mr. H. said:


> There is so much overproduction of ethanol, that 20% is exported.
> 
> Funny, I don't seem to remember that being one of the original goals of this program.


The original goal was to get prices down, and if they did that, then the economy would begin to roll again big time. Now why hasn't everything that is being done with energy, somehow bringing the prices way on down yet, instead of the prices going higher and higher and higher ? 

It's the same ole same ole isn't it in this nation, where corporate profits trumps everything in this nation until the end ?


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## uscitizen

Ernie S. said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not so sure that the production does not already consume more than 100% of yield in producing gasoline.
> 
> 
> 
> Virtually all of the energy used to produce gasoline is supplied by fuel that is a byproduct of the refining process. Diesel fuel runs generators and pumps. According to Wiki, about 46% of a barrel of crude is sold as gasoline. Seeing that oil companies also sell diesel, heavy fuel oil, tar for road surfaces and oil for lubrication, as well as byproducts used to make plastics, it would seem to me that there must be more energy produced than consumed.
Click to expand...

One must figure in supertanker costs and fuel consumption.  pipeline costs, offshore drilling rig costs, and other drilling costs.


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## uscitizen

It is supply and demand.  they have the supply and can demand what they want within certain parameters of course.


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## The Infidel

daveman said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Far, FAR more efficient than ethanol production, which doesn't even break even.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We spent thousands of lives and over 1 trillion to protect oil supplies over the last 10 years, how much do we spend to protect corn supplies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still bitterly clinging to the ridiculous idea that the war was about oil?
> 
> We get more oil from Nigeria than we do from Iraq.
> 
> Last year, we imported 1.68 million barrels of oil from Iraq.  That's only 10% of the oil we imported from OPEC, and only 4.7% of total imports.
> 
> Meanwhile, corn production for ethanol is blamed for a dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico the size of New Jersey:
> 
> Dead zone in gulf linked to ethanol production - SFGate
> 
> *Anyone who claims ethanol is good for the environment is a moron*.
Click to expand...


Or happens to be a farmer that grows corn


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## uscitizen

Theanol reduces our oil consumption by 10% ro more.


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## The Infidel

uscitizen said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not so sure that the production does not already consume more than 100% of yield in producing gasoline.
> 
> 
> 
> Virtually all of the energy used to produce gasoline is supplied by fuel that is a byproduct of the refining process. Diesel fuel runs generators and pumps. According to Wiki, about 46% of a barrel of crude is sold as gasoline. Seeing that oil companies also sell diesel, heavy fuel oil, tar for road surfaces and oil for lubrication, as well as byproducts used to make plastics, it would seem to me that there must be more energy produced than consumed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One must figure in supertanker costs and fuel consumption.  pipeline costs, offshore drilling rig costs, and other drilling costs.
Click to expand...


Nevermind how stupid burning our food is...


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## uscitizen

The Infidel said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Virtually all of the energy used to produce gasoline is supplied by fuel that is a byproduct of the refining process. Diesel fuel runs generators and pumps. According to Wiki, about 46% of a barrel of crude is sold as gasoline. Seeing that oil companies also sell diesel, heavy fuel oil, tar for road surfaces and oil for lubrication, as well as byproducts used to make plastics, it would seem to me that there must be more energy produced than consumed.
> 
> 
> 
> One must figure in supertanker costs and fuel consumption.  pipeline costs, offshore drilling rig costs, and other drilling costs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nevermind how stupid burning our food is...
Click to expand...


We don't have to spend trillions and thousands of lives defending our offshore ethanol supplies.
Seems to me like we have enough food.


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## The Infidel

uscitizen said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> One must figure in supertanker costs and fuel consumption.  pipeline costs, offshore drilling rig costs, and other drilling costs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nevermind how stupid burning our food is...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't have to spend trillions and thousands of lives defending our offshore ethanol supplies.
> Seems to me like we have enough food.
Click to expand...


If we drilled here at home and off our own shores, then used the technology we have for exploration we coud tell those pajama wearing assholes where to stick it.

Before anything else we need to get rid of Obama... so 1st things 1st.


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## beagle9

uscitizen said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not so sure that the production does not already consume more than 100% of yield in producing gasoline.
> 
> 
> 
> Virtually all of the energy used to produce gasoline is supplied by fuel that is a byproduct of the refining process. Diesel fuel runs generators and pumps. According to Wiki, about 46% of a barrel of crude is sold as gasoline. Seeing that oil companies also sell diesel, heavy fuel oil, tar for road surfaces and oil for lubrication, as well as byproducts used to make plastics, it would seem to me that there must be more energy produced than consumed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One must figure in supertanker costs and fuel consumption.  pipeline costs, offshore drilling rig costs, and other drilling costs.
Click to expand...

As with any (initial set up cost) in which are privy to some of these things in which you list, it is found that many times it is a one time cost for the set up, then it is all set to produce for years to come thus bringing that initial set up cost down as it goes, along with the daily operating cost that is being tweaked for maximum performance and cost savings by some very smart people for whom work on this stuff daily. The key is getting something fined tuned and running smoothly, then as time goes by the savings begin to roll in as the methods are perfected over time, where as these savings for production can be injected back into the cost of production, thus bringing down the cost for production, and then ultimately finding it's way to the consumers as is found in the final product that is put out to marketplace. Everyone use to win in the deal, until some got a bit greedy, and thus began making excuses or lies that skewed all the facts and meanings behind all of this stuff.

Hydro electric power is one of the most affordable eco friendly electricity to produce for the utilities, because when they use this method to produce it, they use natural forces and natural resources to do this method. 

It is that because of the initial cost of the set up in which was paid for many years ago, and also that these Hydro's were tooled and built to last for hundreds of years as they have already, is why the utilities havn't abandoned this sound method as of yet. Hey if it works then why fix it right ? It amazes me how this nation has all of a sudden it seems anymore (GONE BONKERS) on all of these things in which we all talk about these days at the dinner table, where as it is like people will by a bridge in Arizona quickly now, especially if someone in which they have an acult attraction to, tells them to buy it.


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