# Crate training



## koshergrl

I have had Mylo for about nine years, and she was two when I got her. She is very dominant and a tad aggressive so we spend a lot of energy keeping her and everybody else as safe as possible. She also poops and pees indiscriminately the minute she is alone.

She has always been so terrible about crating that I just never utilize it. She starts barking, scratching, whining, peeing, biting at the cage the minute she goes in and does not stop. 

It never occurred to me to just crate train her. Instead of thinking she needed trained, I assumed it wouldn't work, or had been tried and failed.

I feel like an idiot!!! I've been dealing with her foibles for years and it never occurred to me to just train her. 

I started yesterday...life is already easier. She went in on her own this am. I left her in while I did little things like make coffee and run laundry. I hope that soon I can crate her when I'm out if the house, when we travel to visit family, or when we have company. What that will mean for Mylo is her level of isolation will decrease. If she's crated she can at least be in the same room with everybody. Now she has to be put away because she bites and fights.


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## bodecea

Looks like a small crate for that size dog....and needs more padding...we use old towels, t-shirts etc.


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## Delta4Embassy

Joke here somewhere about conservatives not getting training. I just know it but have other things on my mind.


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## Moonglow

I had problems with a dog like that also....I trained him with a switch and voice commands...then reward with a treat for good behavior...


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## Iceweasel

I believe there are bigger issues at play. I tried crating my Rat Terrier as a puppy, he's the strongest willed/stubborn creature on Earth. It didn't last a night. I let him out and he hopped in bed with me. He had a few potty problems at first but dogs quickly learn the home is not where to do their business. 

My guess is she has anxiety issues, maybe from not enough exercise? You should also praise them when doing the duty outdoors but at 9 she probably knows what she's supposed to do.


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## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> View attachment 54030 View attachment 54031
> 
> I have had Mylo for about nine years, and she was two when I got her. She is very dominant and a tad aggressive so we spend a lot of energy keeping her and everybody else as safe as possible. She also poops and pees indiscriminately the minute she is alone.
> 
> She has always been so terrible about crating that I just never utilize it. She starts barking, scratching, whining, peeing, biting at the cage the minute she goes in and does not stop.
> 
> It never occurred to me to just crate train her. Instead of thinking she needed trained, I assumed it wouldn't work, or had been tried and failed.
> 
> I feel like an idiot!!! I've been dealing with her foibles for years and it never occurred to me to just train her.
> 
> I started yesterday...life is already easier. She went in on her own this am. I left her in while I did little things like make coffee and run laundry. I hope that soon I can crate her when I'm out if the house, when we travel to visit family, or when we have company. What that will mean for Mylo is her level of isolation will decrease. If she's crated she can at least be in the same room with everybody. Now she has to be put away because she bites and fights.





That dog looks miserable in that crate.


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## Carla_Danger

Listen to Piper and Scooter - Let Me Outta My Crate! - The Music Hutch - Upload Music. Search Music. Share Music. Listen to Music.


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## koshergrl

Mylo is a huge tangled ball of issues, most of which have to do with her breeding. Super intense prey drive, super dominant, moderately aggressive. Her reaction to the CRATE was anxiety driven, but we're dealing with that now. She could run all day...the more she exercises the higher her behavior amps up. Ultimately, she's a hard core hunting dog that doesn't hunt. Our lives will be improved if she can be crated. For one thing, I won't want to kill her because she craps on the carpet if she's left alone for two minutes (also a dominance based issue).


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## Iceweasel

koshergrl said:


> Mylo is a huge tangled ball of issues, most of which have to do with her breeding. Super intense prey drive, super dominant, moderately aggressive. Her reaction to the CRATE was anxiety driven, but we're dealing with that now. She could run all day...the more she exercises the higher her behavior amps up. Ultimately, she's a hard core hunting dog that doesn't hunt. Our lives will be improved if she can be crated. For one thing, I won't want to kill her because she craps on the carpet if she's left alone for two minutes (also a dominance based issue).


Time to call Caesar Milan.


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## Cecilie1200

koshergrl said:


> View attachment 54030 View attachment 54031
> 
> I have had Mylo for about nine years, and she was two when I got her. She is very dominant and a tad aggressive so we spend a lot of energy keeping her and everybody else as safe as possible. She also poops and pees indiscriminately the minute she is alone.
> 
> She has always been so terrible about crating that I just never utilize it. She starts barking, scratching, whining, peeing, biting at the cage the minute she goes in and does not stop.
> 
> It never occurred to me to just crate train her. Instead of thinking she needed trained, I assumed it wouldn't work, or had been tried and failed.
> 
> I feel like an idiot!!! I've been dealing with her foibles for years and it never occurred to me to just train her.
> 
> I started yesterday...life is already easier. She went in on her own this am. I left her in while I did little things like make coffee and run laundry. I hope that soon I can crate her when I'm out if the house, when we travel to visit family, or when we have company. What that will mean for Mylo is her level of isolation will decrease. If she's crated she can at least be in the same room with everybody. Now she has to be put away because she bites and fights.



We're having to re-train our Golden Retriever, Malcolm.  No idea what his actual problem is, but ever since we moved to this apartment, he's gotten it into his head that he needs to poop and pee in the house.  I think it's because he's used to being let out into the backyard to run free while doing his business, and now he has to be walked on a leash.

He's driving me crazy.  We take him out of the crate, and he'll try to relieve himself right there while we're clipping the leash on.  We walk him, he does his business all over the designated area, and then as soon as he comes back inside, he'll go right there in the entry hall.  It's like he's saving some of it up for when he comes back inside.


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## Asclepias

bodecea said:


> Looks like a small crate for that size dog....and needs more padding...we use old towels, t-shirts etc.


Think of a den here as if this was a wild dog.  That crate is actually a tad too big.  It does need some padding at the bottom. It should be like an indoor dog house and covered with a towel for privacy.


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## koshergrl

It also will mean I can leave my bedroom door open and move around the house without constantly keeping tabs on her. She's not the sort of dog you can just relax around if there are kids or other digs in the vicinity. You have to monitor her, or someone will get bit.


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## Asclepias

koshergrl said:


> Mylo is a huge tangled ball of issues, most of which have to do with her breeding. Super intense prey drive, super dominant, moderately aggressive. Her reaction to the CRATE was anxiety driven, but we're dealing with that now. She could run all day...the more she exercises the higher her behavior amps up. Ultimately, she's a hard core hunting dog that doesn't hunt. Our lives will be improved if she can be crated. For one thing, I won't want to kill her because she craps on the carpet if she's left alone for two minutes (also a dominance based issue).


Teach her to play fetch.  Looks like a Jack Russell?  They have intense prey drives.


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## Cecilie1200

Asclepias said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a small crate for that size dog....and needs more padding...we use old towels, t-shirts etc.
> 
> 
> 
> Think of a den here as if this was a wild dog.  That crate is actually a tad too big.  It does need some padding at the bottom. It should be like an indoor dog house and covered with a towel for privacy.
Click to expand...


True.  Malcolm has an enclosed crate which can also be used as a travel container, should he ever have to go on a plane.  It has small, grill-covered windows on the sides and a grill door, and faces out into the room so that he can see and interact with his people and not feel alone.

When he's behaving himself, we leave the door open and he can come and go freely as he feels the need to be "in his den".


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## koshergrl

Cecilie1200 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 54030 View attachment 54031
> 
> I have had Mylo for about nine years, and she was two when I got her. She is very dominant and a tad aggressive so we spend a lot of energy keeping her and everybody else as safe as possible. She also poops and pees indiscriminately the minute she is alone.
> 
> She has always been so terrible about crating that I just never utilize it. She starts barking, scratching, whining, peeing, biting at the cage the minute she goes in and does not stop.
> 
> It never occurred to me to just crate train her. Instead of thinking she needed trained, I assumed it wouldn't work, or had been tried and failed.
> 
> I feel like an idiot!!! I've been dealing with her foibles for years and it never occurred to me to just train her.
> 
> I started yesterday...life is already easier. She went in on her own this am. I left her in while I did little things like make coffee and run laundry. I hope that soon I can crate her when I'm out if the house, when we travel to visit family, or when we have company. What that will mean for Mylo is her level of isolation will decrease. If she's crated she can at least be in the same room with everybody. Now she has to be put away because she bites and fights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We're having to re-train our Golden Retriever, Malcolm.  No idea what his actual problem is, but ever since we moved to this apartment, he's gotten it into his head that he needs to poop and pee in the house.  I think it's because he's used to being let out into the backyard to run free while doing his business, and now he has to be walked on a leash.
> 
> He's driving me crazy.  We take him out of the crate, and he'll try to relieve himself right there while we're clipping the leash on.  We walk him, he does his business all over the designated area, and then as soon as he comes back inside, he'll go right there in the entry hall.  It's like he's saving some of it up for when he comes back inside.
Click to expand...

That's so weird...I have a friend dealing with that issue...they have a young dog that pees whenever they leash, pet or bend over him. His is a submissive thing. Mylos is dominance. She gets out plenty. After nine years I'm done, I don't like it when I find myself fantasizing about her death.


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## Asclepias

koshergrl said:


> It also will mean I can leave my bedroom door open and move around the house without constantly keeping tabs on her. She's not the sort of dog you can just relax around if there are kids or other digs in the vicinity. You have to monitor her, or someone will get bit.


You need to put her down. Obviously she has genetic issues. Its that or you dont know how to train her.


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## Luddly Neddite

That's not a crate. Its a cage. Seriously.

Because its open on all sides, you are actually increasing her anxiety. Get an enclosed crate where she can feel secure instead of feeling like a sitting duck.

Remember that, even dogs are domesticated, they still retain certain attributes of their wild cousins as well as other wild animals. You'll never see a wild animal laying down for a comfy snooze in the wide open spaces. Give her a cave and she'll be a lot calmer.

It also needs to be a tad bigger with more padding. If she is closer to one person in the household, toss in a piece of that person's dirty clothing. Give her enough material to let her nest. She needs to be able to rearrange the furniture to her own liking. 

I would almost always go for a GSD size. If you can't afford one new, check thrift stores and yard sales. We just took two to our animal shelter and I'm sure we're not the only ones who have too man on hand. 

As you train her, use a treat. When you tell her its time for her crate, toss the treat in first.

Keeping dogs in crates can be incredibly cruel but it can also be a form of comfort and shelter. It all depends on their human. Never use it as a form of punishment.

BTW - often, people will call a dog to them to punish them. Dumb. All that teaches is not to come when they're called. Dogs are pack animals and we are their pack. If you want to punish a dog, send them away from you. But not for long periods.


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## Cecilie1200

koshergrl said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 54030 View attachment 54031
> 
> I have had Mylo for about nine years, and she was two when I got her. She is very dominant and a tad aggressive so we spend a lot of energy keeping her and everybody else as safe as possible. She also poops and pees indiscriminately the minute she is alone.
> 
> She has always been so terrible about crating that I just never utilize it. She starts barking, scratching, whining, peeing, biting at the cage the minute she goes in and does not stop.
> 
> It never occurred to me to just crate train her. Instead of thinking she needed trained, I assumed it wouldn't work, or had been tried and failed.
> 
> I feel like an idiot!!! I've been dealing with her foibles for years and it never occurred to me to just train her.
> 
> I started yesterday...life is already easier. She went in on her own this am. I left her in while I did little things like make coffee and run laundry. I hope that soon I can crate her when I'm out if the house, when we travel to visit family, or when we have company. What that will mean for Mylo is her level of isolation will decrease. If she's crated she can at least be in the same room with everybody. Now she has to be put away because she bites and fights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We're having to re-train our Golden Retriever, Malcolm.  No idea what his actual problem is, but ever since we moved to this apartment, he's gotten it into his head that he needs to poop and pee in the house.  I think it's because he's used to being let out into the backyard to run free while doing his business, and now he has to be walked on a leash.
> 
> He's driving me crazy.  We take him out of the crate, and he'll try to relieve himself right there while we're clipping the leash on.  We walk him, he does his business all over the designated area, and then as soon as he comes back inside, he'll go right there in the entry hall.  It's like he's saving some of it up for when he comes back inside.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's so weird...I have a friend dealing with that issue...they have a young dog that pees whenever they leash, pet or bend over him. His is a submissive thing. Mylos is dominance. She gets out plenty. After nine years I'm done, I don't like it when I find myself fantasizing about her death.
Click to expand...


Well, Malcolm doesn't have submission issues.  He likes his leash, because he knows it means he's going to be taken along to wherever his people are going, and he loves being with his people.  It's specifically the apartment that's triggering the behavior.


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## Iceweasel

koshergrl said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 54030 View attachment 54031
> 
> I have had Mylo for about nine years, and she was two when I got her. She is very dominant and a tad aggressive so we spend a lot of energy keeping her and everybody else as safe as possible. She also poops and pees indiscriminately the minute she is alone.
> 
> She has always been so terrible about crating that I just never utilize it. She starts barking, scratching, whining, peeing, biting at the cage the minute she goes in and does not stop.
> 
> It never occurred to me to just crate train her. Instead of thinking she needed trained, I assumed it wouldn't work, or had been tried and failed.
> 
> I feel like an idiot!!! I've been dealing with her foibles for years and it never occurred to me to just train her.
> 
> I started yesterday...life is already easier. She went in on her own this am. I left her in while I did little things like make coffee and run laundry. I hope that soon I can crate her when I'm out if the house, when we travel to visit family, or when we have company. What that will mean for Mylo is her level of isolation will decrease. If she's crated she can at least be in the same room with everybody. Now she has to be put away because she bites and fights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We're having to re-train our Golden Retriever, Malcolm.  No idea what his actual problem is, but ever since we moved to this apartment, he's gotten it into his head that he needs to poop and pee in the house.  I think it's because he's used to being let out into the backyard to run free while doing his business, and now he has to be walked on a leash.
> 
> He's driving me crazy.  We take him out of the crate, and he'll try to relieve himself right there while we're clipping the leash on.  We walk him, he does his business all over the designated area, and then as soon as he comes back inside, he'll go right there in the entry hall.  It's like he's saving some of it up for when he comes back inside.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's so weird...I have a friend dealing with that issue...they have a young dog that pees whenever they leash, pet or bend over him. His is a submissive thing. Mylos is dominance. She gets out plenty. After nine years I'm done, I don't like it when I find myself fantasizing about her death.
Click to expand...

It's a weird problem to have and difficult for me to relate to. Both of mine have the run of the house all the time. I leave sometimes for 8 or 9 hours and nothing has moved except occasionally a pillow has shifted. Is Mylo socialized with other dogs?


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## Luddly Neddite

And, needless to say, if she's not spayed, do so asap.


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## Cecilie1200

Luddly Neddite said:


> And, needless to say, if she's not spayed, do so asap.



Nice thing about shelter adoptions is that the animal is spayed or neutered before he ever comes home, for a very reasonable cost.


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## Iceweasel

Cecilie1200 said:


> We're having to re-train our Golden Retriever, Malcolm.  No idea what his actual problem is, but ever since we moved to this apartment, he's gotten it into his head that he needs to poop and pee in the house.  I think it's because he's used to being let out into the backyard to run free while doing his business, and now he has to be walked on a leash.
> 
> He's driving me crazy.  We take him out of the crate, and he'll try to relieve himself right there while we're clipping the leash on.  We walk him, he does his business all over the designated area, and then as soon as he comes back inside, he'll go right there in the entry hall.  It's like he's saving some of it up for when he comes back inside.


My observation is that dogs see the world differently and pooping and peeing is part of claiming their turf. The back yard was his turf but now he has none except for the apartment. I think he will adapt in time, but it's a big transition.


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## Cecilie1200

Iceweasel said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're having to re-train our Golden Retriever, Malcolm.  No idea what his actual problem is, but ever since we moved to this apartment, he's gotten it into his head that he needs to poop and pee in the house.  I think it's because he's used to being let out into the backyard to run free while doing his business, and now he has to be walked on a leash.
> 
> He's driving me crazy.  We take him out of the crate, and he'll try to relieve himself right there while we're clipping the leash on.  We walk him, he does his business all over the designated area, and then as soon as he comes back inside, he'll go right there in the entry hall.  It's like he's saving some of it up for when he comes back inside.
> 
> 
> 
> My observation is that dogs see the world differently and pooping and peeing is part of claiming their turf. The back yard was his turf but now he has none except for the apartment. I think he will adapt in time, but it's a big transition.
Click to expand...


Excellent point.  So how do I go about helping him adapt so that he can be out of the crate?


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## Iceweasel

Cecilie1200 said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're having to re-train our Golden Retriever, Malcolm.  No idea what his actual problem is, but ever since we moved to this apartment, he's gotten it into his head that he needs to poop and pee in the house.  I think it's because he's used to being let out into the backyard to run free while doing his business, and now he has to be walked on a leash.
> 
> He's driving me crazy.  We take him out of the crate, and he'll try to relieve himself right there while we're clipping the leash on.  We walk him, he does his business all over the designated area, and then as soon as he comes back inside, he'll go right there in the entry hall.  It's like he's saving some of it up for when he comes back inside.
> 
> 
> 
> My observation is that dogs see the world differently and pooping and peeing is part of claiming their turf. The back yard was his turf but now he has none except for the apartment. I think he will adapt in time, but it's a big transition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent point.  So how do I go about helping him adapt so that he can be out of the crate?
Click to expand...

Well, I for one am not above negative training. Some dog people freak out if you teach them the word no. I screamed bloody murder and let them know the top dog doesn't allow that kind of behavior. Didn't have to do it much, they caught on real quick. 

Maybe if he had a favorite spot outside, a place to mark as his own? And like I said praising him when doing it outside. The get the point, master angry/master happy.


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## koshergrl

Iceweasel said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mylo is a huge tangled ball of issues, most of which have to do with her breeding. Super intense prey drive, super dominant, moderately aggressive. Her reaction to the CRATE was anxiety driven, but we're dealing with that now. She could run all day...the more she exercises the higher her behavior amps up. Ultimately, she's a hard core hunting dog that doesn't hunt. Our lives will be improved if she can be crated. For one thing, I won't want to kill her because she craps on the carpet if she's left alone for two minutes (also a dominance based issue).
> 
> 
> 
> Time to call Caesar Milan.
Click to expand...

Yeah Cesar is my bestest friend. I should have a degree in CM


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## koshergrl

Iceweasel said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 54030 View attachment 54031
> 
> I have had Mylo for about nine years, and she was two when I got her. She is very dominant and a tad aggressive so we spend a lot of energy keeping her and everybody else as safe as possible. She also poops and pees indiscriminately the minute she is alone.
> 
> She has always been so terrible about crating that I just never utilize it. She starts barking, scratching, whining, peeing, biting at the cage the minute she goes in and does not stop.
> 
> It never occurred to me to just crate train her. Instead of thinking she needed trained, I assumed it wouldn't work, or had been tried and failed.
> 
> I feel like an idiot!!! I've been dealing with her foibles for years and it never occurred to me to just train her.
> 
> I started yesterday...life is already easier. She went in on her own this am. I left her in while I did little things like make coffee and run laundry. I hope that soon I can crate her when I'm out if the house, when we travel to visit family, or when we have company. What that will mean for Mylo is her level of isolation will decrease. If she's crated she can at least be in the same room with everybody. Now she has to be put away because she bites and fights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We're having to re-train our Golden Retriever, Malcolm.  No idea what his actual problem is, but ever since we moved to this apartment, he's gotten it into his head that he needs to poop and pee in the house.  I think it's because he's used to being let out into the backyard to run free while doing his business, and now he has to be walked on a leash.
> 
> He's driving me crazy.  We take him out of the crate, and he'll try to relieve himself right there while we're clipping the leash on.  We walk him, he does his business all over the designated area, and then as soon as he comes back inside, he'll go right there in the entry hall.  It's like he's saving some of it up for when he comes back inside.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's so weird...I have a friend dealing with that issue...they have a young dog that pees whenever they leash, pet or bend over him. His is a submissive thing. Mylos is dominance. She gets out plenty. After nine years I'm done, I don't like it when I find myself fantasizing about her death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a weird problem to have and difficult for me to relate to. Both of mine have the run of the house all the time. I leave sometimes for 8 or 9 hours and nothing has moved except occasionally a pillow has shifted. Is Mylo socialized with other dogs?
Click to expand...

She's socialized to a point, but I can't leave her alone with snoop. They're ok when they're being monitored but he gets rough with her when they're left alone. She was fine with the saint....she didn't annoy him and he loved her. He'd play as long as she wanted to, and didn't wig out on her when she challenged him. Snoop isn't as tolerant. He has the run of the house when I'm out and Mylo is in my room. She doesn't mind that. If snoop is shut up he tears up carpet and floors and destroys doors. Plus the kids are in and out and if I'm not there mylo gets out and that's never good. Snoop doesn't take off running to attack whatever he can find when he gets out.


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## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> View attachment 54030 View attachment 54031
> 
> I have had Mylo for about nine years, and she was two when I got her. She is very dominant and a tad aggressive so we spend a lot of energy keeping her and everybody else as safe as possible. She also poops and pees indiscriminately the minute she is alone.
> 
> She has always been so terrible about crating that I just never utilize it. She starts barking, scratching, whining, peeing, biting at the cage the minute she goes in and does not stop.
> 
> It never occurred to me to just crate train her. Instead of thinking she needed trained, I assumed it wouldn't work, or had been tried and failed.
> 
> I feel like an idiot!!! I've been dealing with her foibles for years and it never occurred to me to just train her.
> 
> I started yesterday...life is already easier. She went in on her own this am. I left her in while I did little things like make coffee and run laundry. I hope that soon I can crate her when I'm out if the house, when we travel to visit family, or when we have company. What that will mean for Mylo is her level of isolation will decrease. If she's crated she can at least be in the same room with everybody. Now she has to be put away because she bites and fights.



Having her own space, like a crate will also make her feel a bit "safer" - she wont' feel she'll need to react so much.  A lot of times, aggression is linked with fear.  She's cute!  She has that sweet old lady face


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## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> Mylo is a huge tangled ball of issues, most of which have to do with her breeding. Super intense prey drive, super dominant, moderately aggressive. Her reaction to the CRATE was anxiety driven, but we're dealing with that now. She could run all day...the more she exercises the higher her behavior amps up. Ultimately, she's a hard core hunting dog that doesn't hunt. Our lives will be improved if she can be crated. For one thing, I won't want to kill her because she craps on the carpet if she's left alone for two minutes (also a dominance based issue).



What was her background before you got her?


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## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> It also will mean I can leave my bedroom door open and move around the house without constantly keeping tabs on her. She's not the sort of dog you can just relax around if there are kids or other digs in the vicinity. You have to monitor her, or someone will get bit.



Have you also tried baby gates?  I have two females that need close monitoring when out so I rotate them and have one either crated or baby-gated in my office.  For a while, I had double gates with several feet in between just incase there was fence fighting, but ended up not really needing it.  They're happy to avoid each other when given the opportunity.


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## Coyote

Cecilie1200 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 54030 View attachment 54031
> 
> I have had Mylo for about nine years, and she was two when I got her. She is very dominant and a tad aggressive so we spend a lot of energy keeping her and everybody else as safe as possible. She also poops and pees indiscriminately the minute she is alone.
> 
> She has always been so terrible about crating that I just never utilize it. She starts barking, scratching, whining, peeing, biting at the cage the minute she goes in and does not stop.
> 
> It never occurred to me to just crate train her. Instead of thinking she needed trained, I assumed it wouldn't work, or had been tried and failed.
> 
> I feel like an idiot!!! I've been dealing with her foibles for years and it never occurred to me to just train her.
> 
> I started yesterday...life is already easier. She went in on her own this am. I left her in while I did little things like make coffee and run laundry. I hope that soon I can crate her when I'm out if the house, when we travel to visit family, or when we have company. What that will mean for Mylo is her level of isolation will decrease. If she's crated she can at least be in the same room with everybody. Now she has to be put away because she bites and fights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We're having to re-train our Golden Retriever, Malcolm.  No idea what his actual problem is, but ever since we moved to this apartment, he's gotten it into his head that he needs to poop and pee in the house.  I think it's because he's used to being let out into the backyard to run free while doing his business, and now he has to be walked on a leash.
> 
> He's driving me crazy.  We take him out of the crate, and he'll try to relieve himself right there while we're clipping the leash on.  We walk him, he does his business all over the designated area, and then as soon as he comes back inside, he'll go right there in the entry hall.  It's like he's saving some of it up for when he comes back inside.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's so weird...I have a friend dealing with that issue...they have a young dog that pees whenever they leash, pet or bend over him. His is a submissive thing. Mylos is dominance. She gets out plenty. After nine years I'm done, I don't like it when I find myself fantasizing about her death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, Malcolm doesn't have submission issues.  He likes his leash, because he knows it means he's going to be taken along to wherever his people are going, and he loves being with his people.  It's specifically the apartment that's triggering the behavior.
Click to expand...


Is it just urine?  How old is he?


----------



## Cecilie1200

Coyote said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 54030 View attachment 54031
> 
> I have had Mylo for about nine years, and she was two when I got her. She is very dominant and a tad aggressive so we spend a lot of energy keeping her and everybody else as safe as possible. She also poops and pees indiscriminately the minute she is alone.
> 
> She has always been so terrible about crating that I just never utilize it. She starts barking, scratching, whining, peeing, biting at the cage the minute she goes in and does not stop.
> 
> It never occurred to me to just crate train her. Instead of thinking she needed trained, I assumed it wouldn't work, or had been tried and failed.
> 
> I feel like an idiot!!! I've been dealing with her foibles for years and it never occurred to me to just train her.
> 
> I started yesterday...life is already easier. She went in on her own this am. I left her in while I did little things like make coffee and run laundry. I hope that soon I can crate her when I'm out if the house, when we travel to visit family, or when we have company. What that will mean for Mylo is her level of isolation will decrease. If she's crated she can at least be in the same room with everybody. Now she has to be put away because she bites and fights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We're having to re-train our Golden Retriever, Malcolm.  No idea what his actual problem is, but ever since we moved to this apartment, he's gotten it into his head that he needs to poop and pee in the house.  I think it's because he's used to being let out into the backyard to run free while doing his business, and now he has to be walked on a leash.
> 
> He's driving me crazy.  We take him out of the crate, and he'll try to relieve himself right there while we're clipping the leash on.  We walk him, he does his business all over the designated area, and then as soon as he comes back inside, he'll go right there in the entry hall.  It's like he's saving some of it up for when he comes back inside.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's so weird...I have a friend dealing with that issue...they have a young dog that pees whenever they leash, pet or bend over him. His is a submissive thing. Mylos is dominance. She gets out plenty. After nine years I'm done, I don't like it when I find myself fantasizing about her death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, Malcolm doesn't have submission issues.  He likes his leash, because he knows it means he's going to be taken along to wherever his people are going, and he loves being with his people.  It's specifically the apartment that's triggering the behavior.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is it just urine?  How old is he?
Click to expand...


Nope, poop and pee both.  Think it depends on what he actually has available at the moment.

He's about two.  We've had him for six months-ish, and while he was housetrained, it wasn't as strong as I would have liked before we moved.  His previous owners apparently stuck him in the yard and ignored him.


----------



## Coyote

Cecilie1200 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 54030 View attachment 54031
> 
> I have had Mylo for about nine years, and she was two when I got her. She is very dominant and a tad aggressive so we spend a lot of energy keeping her and everybody else as safe as possible. She also poops and pees indiscriminately the minute she is alone.
> 
> She has always been so terrible about crating that I just never utilize it. She starts barking, scratching, whining, peeing, biting at the cage the minute she goes in and does not stop.
> 
> It never occurred to me to just crate train her. Instead of thinking she needed trained, I assumed it wouldn't work, or had been tried and failed.
> 
> I feel like an idiot!!! I've been dealing with her foibles for years and it never occurred to me to just train her.
> 
> I started yesterday...life is already easier. She went in on her own this am. I left her in while I did little things like make coffee and run laundry. I hope that soon I can crate her when I'm out if the house, when we travel to visit family, or when we have company. What that will mean for Mylo is her level of isolation will decrease. If she's crated she can at least be in the same room with everybody. Now she has to be put away because she bites and fights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We're having to re-train our Golden Retriever, Malcolm.  No idea what his actual problem is, but ever since we moved to this apartment, he's gotten it into his head that he needs to poop and pee in the house.  I think it's because he's used to being let out into the backyard to run free while doing his business, and now he has to be walked on a leash.
> 
> He's driving me crazy.  We take him out of the crate, and he'll try to relieve himself right there while we're clipping the leash on.  We walk him, he does his business all over the designated area, and then as soon as he comes back inside, he'll go right there in the entry hall.  It's like he's saving some of it up for when he comes back inside.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's so weird...I have a friend dealing with that issue...they have a young dog that pees whenever they leash, pet or bend over him. His is a submissive thing. Mylos is dominance. She gets out plenty. After nine years I'm done, I don't like it when I find myself fantasizing about her death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, Malcolm doesn't have submission issues.  He likes his leash, because he knows it means he's going to be taken along to wherever his people are going, and he loves being with his people.  It's specifically the apartment that's triggering the behavior.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is it just urine?  How old is he?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope, poop and pee both.  Think it depends on what he actually has available at the moment.
> 
> He's about two.  We've had him for six months-ish, and while he was housetrained, it wasn't as strong as I would have liked before we moved.  His previous owners apparently stuck him in the yard and ignored him.
Click to expand...


Could be the whole drastic change to going on leash and no yard.  You might go back to treating him like a puppy and limiting his freedom.  Sometimes, they are so distracted when outside they don't do everything - if he doesn't poo, for example, and you know he should have - crate him again, and take him out in 20 minutes.  Maybe go back to rewarding the doing it outside too?


----------



## koshergrl

Coyote said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mylo is a huge tangled ball of issues, most of which have to do with her breeding. Super intense prey drive, super dominant, moderately aggressive. Her reaction to the CRATE was anxiety driven, but we're dealing with that now. She could run all day...the more she exercises the higher her behavior amps up. Ultimately, she's a hard core hunting dog that doesn't hunt. Our lives will be improved if she can be crated. For one thing, I won't want to kill her because she craps on the carpet if she's left alone for two minutes (also a dominance based issue).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What was her background before you got her?
Click to expand...

She belonged to a single guy who had a farm. He paid a lot for her, he had papers and she is well bred. He loved her, but he kept her tied up I think. He got married to a woman with kids and dogs and she didn't work well with them. 

She's smart, loyal, fierce...and very dominant. She patrols continually, it's not obsessive it's just who she is. She kills, or tries to kill, anything smaller than her. She is bred to hunt foxes...carnivores. If she gets offleash, she goes hunting.

I don't know how productive it is to spend much time trying to piece together her past. I just want her to not crap and pee on my carpet ten times a day, and I would like to be able to leave a door open once in a while without panicking or having to des with pissed off neighbors or random passersby....


----------



## koshergrl

Cecilie1200 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 54030 View attachment 54031
> 
> I have had Mylo for about nine years, and she was two when I got her. She is very dominant and a tad aggressive so we spend a lot of energy keeping her and everybody else as safe as possible. She also poops and pees indiscriminately the minute she is alone.
> 
> She has always been so terrible about crating that I just never utilize it. She starts barking, scratching, whining, peeing, biting at the cage the minute she goes in and does not stop.
> 
> It never occurred to me to just crate train her. Instead of thinking she needed trained, I assumed it wouldn't work, or had been tried and failed.
> 
> I feel like an idiot!!! I've been dealing with her foibles for years and it never occurred to me to just train her.
> 
> I started yesterday...life is already easier. She went in on her own this am. I left her in while I did little things like make coffee and run laundry. I hope that soon I can crate her when I'm out if the house, when we travel to visit family, or when we have company. What that will mean for Mylo is her level of isolation will decrease. If she's crated she can at least be in the same room with everybody. Now she has to be put away because she bites and fights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We're having to re-train our Golden Retriever, Malcolm.  No idea what his actual problem is, but ever since we moved to this apartment, he's gotten it into his head that he needs to poop and pee in the house.  I think it's because he's used to being let out into the backyard to run free while doing his business, and now he has to be walked on a leash.
> 
> He's driving me crazy.  We take him out of the crate, and he'll try to relieve himself right there while we're clipping the leash on.  We walk him, he does his business all over the designated area, and then as soon as he comes back inside, he'll go right there in the entry hall.  It's like he's saving some of it up for when he comes back inside.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's so weird...I have a friend dealing with that issue...they have a young dog that pees whenever they leash, pet or bend over him. His is a submissive thing. Mylos is dominance. She gets out plenty. After nine years I'm done, I don't like it when I find myself fantasizing about her death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, Malcolm doesn't have submission issues.  He likes his leash, because he knows it means he's going to be taken along to wherever his people are going, and he loves being with his people.  It's specifically the apartment that's triggering the behavior.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is it just urine?  How old is he?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope, poop and pee both.  Think it depends on what he actually has available at the moment.
> 
> He's about two.  We've had him for six months-ish, and while he was housetrained, it wasn't as strong as I would have liked before we moved.  His previous owners apparently stuck him in the yard and ignored him.
Click to expand...

He's marking. Same thing mylo dies. Snoop dies too but only outside thank god.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Coyote said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're having to re-train our Golden Retriever, Malcolm.  No idea what his actual problem is, but ever since we moved to this apartment, he's gotten it into his head that he needs to poop and pee in the house.  I think it's because he's used to being let out into the backyard to run free while doing his business, and now he has to be walked on a leash.
> 
> He's driving me crazy.  We take him out of the crate, and he'll try to relieve himself right there while we're clipping the leash on.  We walk him, he does his business all over the designated area, and then as soon as he comes back inside, he'll go right there in the entry hall.  It's like he's saving some of it up for when he comes back inside.
> 
> 
> 
> That's so weird...I have a friend dealing with that issue...they have a young dog that pees whenever they leash, pet or bend over him. His is a submissive thing. Mylos is dominance. She gets out plenty. After nine years I'm done, I don't like it when I find myself fantasizing about her death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, Malcolm doesn't have submission issues.  He likes his leash, because he knows it means he's going to be taken along to wherever his people are going, and he loves being with his people.  It's specifically the apartment that's triggering the behavior.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is it just urine?  How old is he?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope, poop and pee both.  Think it depends on what he actually has available at the moment.
> 
> He's about two.  We've had him for six months-ish, and while he was housetrained, it wasn't as strong as I would have liked before we moved.  His previous owners apparently stuck him in the yard and ignored him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Could be the whole drastic change to going on leash and no yard.  You might go back to treating him like a puppy and limiting his freedom.  Sometimes, they are so distracted when outside they don't do everything - if he doesn't poo, for example, and you know he should have - crate him again, and take him out in 20 minutes.  Maybe go back to rewarding the doing it outside too?
Click to expand...


Yeah, that's where we are right now.  I hate having him in the kennel all the time, but he stays there unless he's eating or being walked.  We had pork roast the other night, and saved all the bones for him.  My son carries one along in a Ziploc every time they go out, and if he poops, he gets the bone.  Peeing outside gets excessive petting and ear scratching.  We try to take him out 30-60 minutes after he eats, when his food should have digested enough to be demanding relief.


----------



## koshergrl

Does. Not dies.


----------



## Cecilie1200

koshergrl said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're having to re-train our Golden Retriever, Malcolm.  No idea what his actual problem is, but ever since we moved to this apartment, he's gotten it into his head that he needs to poop and pee in the house.  I think it's because he's used to being let out into the backyard to run free while doing his business, and now he has to be walked on a leash.
> 
> He's driving me crazy.  We take him out of the crate, and he'll try to relieve himself right there while we're clipping the leash on.  We walk him, he does his business all over the designated area, and then as soon as he comes back inside, he'll go right there in the entry hall.  It's like he's saving some of it up for when he comes back inside.
> 
> 
> 
> That's so weird...I have a friend dealing with that issue...they have a young dog that pees whenever they leash, pet or bend over him. His is a submissive thing. Mylos is dominance. She gets out plenty. After nine years I'm done, I don't like it when I find myself fantasizing about her death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, Malcolm doesn't have submission issues.  He likes his leash, because he knows it means he's going to be taken along to wherever his people are going, and he loves being with his people.  It's specifically the apartment that's triggering the behavior.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is it just urine?  How old is he?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope, poop and pee both.  Think it depends on what he actually has available at the moment.
> 
> He's about two.  We've had him for six months-ish, and while he was housetrained, it wasn't as strong as I would have liked before we moved.  His previous owners apparently stuck him in the yard and ignored him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He's marking. Same thing mylo dies. Snoop dies too but only outside thank god.
Click to expand...


Maybe if I put a cloth in his kennel for a couple of days, and then rubbed it around the floors and corners so the apartment smells like him to him?  He doesn't have a lot of smell to the human nose, so it wouldn't bother us any.


----------



## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mylo is a huge tangled ball of issues, most of which have to do with her breeding. Super intense prey drive, super dominant, moderately aggressive. Her reaction to the CRATE was anxiety driven, but we're dealing with that now. She could run all day...the more she exercises the higher her behavior amps up. Ultimately, she's a hard core hunting dog that doesn't hunt. Our lives will be improved if she can be crated. For one thing, I won't want to kill her because she craps on the carpet if she's left alone for two minutes (also a dominance based issue).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What was her background before you got her?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She belonged to a single guy who had a farm. He paid a lot for her, he had papers and she is well bred. He loved her, but he kept her tied up I think. He got married to a woman with kids and dogs and she didn't work well with them.
> 
> She's smart, loyal, fierce...and very dominant. She patrols continually, it's not obsessive it's just who she is. She kills, or tries to kill, anything smaller than her. She is bred to hunt foxes...carnivores. If she gets offleash, she goes hunting.
> 
> I don't know how productive it is to spend much time trying to piece together her past. I just want her to not crap and pee on my carpet ten times a day, and I would like to be able to leave a door open once in a while without panicking or having to des with pissed off neighbors or random passersby....
Click to expand...



I was just wondering because if she were a puppy mill dog, accustomed to peeing and crapping in her cage, it can make it much harder to housebreak.  Is she a Jack Russel or a Rat Terrier?  I wonder if giving her activities to do might redirect some of her annoying qualities?  I have a 13 yr aussie with high prey drive, a reactive personality - over the years she's mellowed a bit, but I wouldn't wish her on anyone.   I started doing nosework with her and she loves it - she gets to use her hunt drive, she gets lot's of food rewards for finding it - and it seems to be helping with some issues I've had with her.  Someone else told me about Barn Hunt - where dogs, particularly terriers are trained to "hunt" using scent or, rats enclosed in safe cages.


----------



## Asclepias

Coyote said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mylo is a huge tangled ball of issues, most of which have to do with her breeding. Super intense prey drive, super dominant, moderately aggressive. Her reaction to the CRATE was anxiety driven, but we're dealing with that now. She could run all day...the more she exercises the higher her behavior amps up. Ultimately, she's a hard core hunting dog that doesn't hunt. Our lives will be improved if she can be crated. For one thing, I won't want to kill her because she craps on the carpet if she's left alone for two minutes (also a dominance based issue).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What was her background before you got her?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She belonged to a single guy who had a farm. He paid a lot for her, he had papers and she is well bred. He loved her, but he kept her tied up I think. He got married to a woman with kids and dogs and she didn't work well with them.
> 
> She's smart, loyal, fierce...and very dominant. She patrols continually, it's not obsessive it's just who she is. She kills, or tries to kill, anything smaller than her. She is bred to hunt foxes...carnivores. If she gets offleash, she goes hunting.
> 
> I don't know how productive it is to spend much time trying to piece together her past. I just want her to not crap and pee on my carpet ten times a day, and I would like to be able to leave a door open once in a while without panicking or having to des with pissed off neighbors or random passersby....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I was just wondering because if she were a puppy mill dog, accustomed to peeing and crapping in her cage, it can make it much harder to housebreak.  Is she a Jack Russel or a Rat Terrier?  I wonder if giving her activities to do might redirect some of her annoying qualities?  I have a 13 yr aussie with high prey drive, a reactive personality - over the years she's mellowed a bit, but I wouldn't wish her on anyone.   I started doing nosework with her and she loves it - she gets to use her hunt drive, she gets lot's of food rewards for finding it - and it seems to be helping with some issues I've had with her.  Someone else told me about Barn Hunt - where dogs, particularly terriers are trained to "hunt" using scent or, rats enclosed in safe cages.
Click to expand...

Nothing like letting a dog do what it was bred to do to correct behavioral problems.


----------



## Coyote

Asclepias said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mylo is a huge tangled ball of issues, most of which have to do with her breeding. Super intense prey drive, super dominant, moderately aggressive. Her reaction to the CRATE was anxiety driven, but we're dealing with that now. She could run all day...the more she exercises the higher her behavior amps up. Ultimately, she's a hard core hunting dog that doesn't hunt. Our lives will be improved if she can be crated. For one thing, I won't want to kill her because she craps on the carpet if she's left alone for two minutes (also a dominance based issue).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What was her background before you got her?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She belonged to a single guy who had a farm. He paid a lot for her, he had papers and she is well bred. He loved her, but he kept her tied up I think. He got married to a woman with kids and dogs and she didn't work well with them.
> 
> She's smart, loyal, fierce...and very dominant. She patrols continually, it's not obsessive it's just who she is. She kills, or tries to kill, anything smaller than her. She is bred to hunt foxes...carnivores. If she gets offleash, she goes hunting.
> 
> I don't know how productive it is to spend much time trying to piece together her past. I just want her to not crap and pee on my carpet ten times a day, and I would like to be able to leave a door open once in a while without panicking or having to des with pissed off neighbors or random passersby....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I was just wondering because if she were a puppy mill dog, accustomed to peeing and crapping in her cage, it can make it much harder to housebreak.  Is she a Jack Russel or a Rat Terrier?  I wonder if giving her activities to do might redirect some of her annoying qualities?  I have a 13 yr aussie with high prey drive, a reactive personality - over the years she's mellowed a bit, but I wouldn't wish her on anyone.   I started doing nosework with her and she loves it - she gets to use her hunt drive, she gets lot's of food rewards for finding it - and it seems to be helping with some issues I've had with her.  Someone else told me about Barn Hunt - where dogs, particularly terriers are trained to "hunt" using scent or, rats enclosed in safe cages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing like letting a dog do what it was bred to do to correct behavioral problems.
Click to expand...


It's tough with difficult dogs to find them appropriate outlets - if they are reactive with dogs or people, that limits what you do and where you can take them, and with an older dog, there's not always a lot you can change.  Hazel loves Nosework and it gives her something to look forward to, plus tires her out - especially her overactive brain


----------



## koshergrl

Coyote said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 54030 View attachment 54031
> 
> I have had Mylo for about nine years, and she was two when I got her. She is very dominant and a tad aggressive so we spend a lot of energy keeping her and everybody else as safe as possible. She also poops and pees indiscriminately the minute she is alone.
> 
> She has always been so terrible about crating that I just never utilize it. She starts barking, scratching, whining, peeing, biting at the cage the minute she goes in and does not stop.
> 
> It never occurred to me to just crate train her. Instead of thinking she needed trained, I assumed it wouldn't work, or had been tried and failed.
> 
> I feel like an idiot!!! I've been dealing with her foibles for years and it never occurred to me to just train her.
> 
> I started yesterday...life is already easier. She went in on her own this am. I left her in while I did little things like make coffee and run laundry. I hope that soon I can crate her when I'm out if the house, when we travel to visit family, or when we have company. What that will mean for Mylo is her level of isolation will decrease. If she's crated she can at least be in the same room with everybody. Now she has to be put away because she bites and fights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having her own space, like a crate will also make her feel a bit "safer" - she wont' feel she'll need to react so much.  A lot of times, aggression is linked with fear.  She's cute!  She has that sweet old lady face
Click to expand...

Thanks I do love her. But she doesn't have a fearful bone in her body, lol. She's not super insanely aggressive....a little but she can get along with other dogs. She is super insanely dominant though....and that is a problem with other dominant dogs, kids, etc. She always assumes she's the boss until she is schooled differently....and even then she'll continue to push it.


----------



## Cecilie1200

I love that our new place is a straight shot down the street to the park with the no-leash dog park.  Once we're done spending all our free time on moving and unpacking, it'll be easy to take Malcolm out to play the space-intensive games he loves, like fetch.


----------



## koshergrl

Asclepias said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mylo is a huge tangled ball of issues, most of which have to do with her breeding. Super intense prey drive, super dominant, moderately aggressive. Her reaction to the CRATE was anxiety driven, but we're dealing with that now. She could run all day...the more she exercises the higher her behavior amps up. Ultimately, she's a hard core hunting dog that doesn't hunt. Our lives will be improved if she can be crated. For one thing, I won't want to kill her because she craps on the carpet if she's left alone for two minutes (also a dominance based issue).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What was her background before you got her?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She belonged to a single guy who had a farm. He paid a lot for her, he had papers and she is well bred. He loved her, but he kept her tied up I think. He got married to a woman with kids and dogs and she didn't work well with them.
> 
> She's smart, loyal, fierce...and very dominant. She patrols continually, it's not obsessive it's just who she is. She kills, or tries to kill, anything smaller than her. She is bred to hunt foxes...carnivores. If she gets offleash, she goes hunting.
> 
> I don't know how productive it is to spend much time trying to piece together her past. I just want her to not crap and pee on my carpet ten times a day, and I would like to be able to leave a door open once in a while without panicking or having to des with pissed off neighbors or random passersby....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I was just wondering because if she were a puppy mill dog, accustomed to peeing and crapping in her cage, it can make it much harder to housebreak.  Is she a Jack Russel or a Rat Terrier?  I wonder if giving her activities to do might redirect some of her annoying qualities?  I have a 13 yr aussie with high prey drive, a reactive personality - over the years she's mellowed a bit, but I wouldn't wish her on anyone.   I started doing nosework with her and she loves it - she gets to use her hunt drive, she gets lot's of food rewards for finding it - and it seems to be helping with some issues I've had with her.  Someone else told me about Barn Hunt - where dogs, particularly terriers are trained to "hunt" using scent or, rats enclosed in safe cages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing like letting a dog do what it was bred to do to correct behavioral problems.
Click to expand...

Yeah I wish I had a pack of fox hunting digs and a stable....mylo would do great.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Iceweasel said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're having to re-train our Golden Retriever, Malcolm.  No idea what his actual problem is, but ever since we moved to this apartment, he's gotten it into his head that he needs to poop and pee in the house.  I think it's because he's used to being let out into the backyard to run free while doing his business, and now he has to be walked on a leash.
> 
> He's driving me crazy.  We take him out of the crate, and he'll try to relieve himself right there while we're clipping the leash on.  We walk him, he does his business all over the designated area, and then as soon as he comes back inside, he'll go right there in the entry hall.  It's like he's saving some of it up for when he comes back inside.
> 
> 
> 
> My observation is that dogs see the world differently and pooping and peeing is part of claiming their turf. The back yard was his turf but now he has none except for the apartment. I think he will adapt in time, but it's a big transition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent point.  So how do I go about helping him adapt so that he can be out of the crate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, I for one am not above negative training. Some dog people freak out if you teach them the word no. I screamed bloody murder and let them know the top dog doesn't allow that kind of behavior. Didn't have to do it much, they caught on real quick.
> 
> Maybe if he had a favorite spot outside, a place to mark as his own? And like I said praising him when doing it outside. The get the point, master angry/master happy.
Click to expand...



The last thing you want to do with a dog is scream at them. Doesn't teach them anything. Whisper. They'll pay more attention. If a dog has been screamed at, it may take a little while to accustom her to listen to whispers but I guarantee, the dog WILL get it. 

Dogs also respond to a different kind of physical punishment than humans mete out. No need to ever ever ever hit a dog. Better to think like other dogs. What would the Dog parent or dog aunts and uncles do? Treat the dog like he's a dog. If you watch Cesar, that's exactly what he does - he thinks and acts like a dog instead of an hysterical screaming human.

And dogs punish other dogs and then its forgotten. Don't hold a grudge and never react out of anger. The dog won't understand and you'll do more damage than good.


----------



## Asclepias

Coyote said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mylo is a huge tangled ball of issues, most of which have to do with her breeding. Super intense prey drive, super dominant, moderately aggressive. Her reaction to the CRATE was anxiety driven, but we're dealing with that now. She could run all day...the more she exercises the higher her behavior amps up. Ultimately, she's a hard core hunting dog that doesn't hunt. Our lives will be improved if she can be crated. For one thing, I won't want to kill her because she craps on the carpet if she's left alone for two minutes (also a dominance based issue).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What was her background before you got her?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She belonged to a single guy who had a farm. He paid a lot for her, he had papers and she is well bred. He loved her, but he kept her tied up I think. He got married to a woman with kids and dogs and she didn't work well with them.
> 
> She's smart, loyal, fierce...and very dominant. She patrols continually, it's not obsessive it's just who she is. She kills, or tries to kill, anything smaller than her. She is bred to hunt foxes...carnivores. If she gets offleash, she goes hunting.
> 
> I don't know how productive it is to spend much time trying to piece together her past. I just want her to not crap and pee on my carpet ten times a day, and I would like to be able to leave a door open once in a while without panicking or having to des with pissed off neighbors or random passersby....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I was just wondering because if she were a puppy mill dog, accustomed to peeing and crapping in her cage, it can make it much harder to housebreak.  Is she a Jack Russel or a Rat Terrier?  I wonder if giving her activities to do might redirect some of her annoying qualities?  I have a 13 yr aussie with high prey drive, a reactive personality - over the years she's mellowed a bit, but I wouldn't wish her on anyone.   I started doing nosework with her and she loves it - she gets to use her hunt drive, she gets lot's of food rewards for finding it - and it seems to be helping with some issues I've had with her.  Someone else told me about Barn Hunt - where dogs, particularly terriers are trained to "hunt" using scent or, rats enclosed in safe cages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing like letting a dog do what it was bred to do to correct behavioral problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's tough with difficult dogs to find them appropriate outlets - if they are reactive with dogs or people, that limits what you do and where you can take them, and with an older dog, there's not always a lot you can change.  Hazel loves Nosework and it gives her something to look forward to, plus tires her out - especially her overactive brain
Click to expand...

I trained all my Pitbulls how to play fetch.  They are notoriously dog aggressive after they get into their first fight.  I found that if I keyed their prey drive to play fetch they would ignore other dogs.  Older dogs are pretty tricky because it can be a hidden health problem or insecurity.


----------



## koshergrl

So this weekend we are unpacking, cleaning, and crate training. And fixing a fence.


----------



## Asclepias

Luddly Neddite said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're having to re-train our Golden Retriever, Malcolm.  No idea what his actual problem is, but ever since we moved to this apartment, he's gotten it into his head that he needs to poop and pee in the house.  I think it's because he's used to being let out into the backyard to run free while doing his business, and now he has to be walked on a leash.
> 
> He's driving me crazy.  We take him out of the crate, and he'll try to relieve himself right there while we're clipping the leash on.  We walk him, he does his business all over the designated area, and then as soon as he comes back inside, he'll go right there in the entry hall.  It's like he's saving some of it up for when he comes back inside.
> 
> 
> 
> My observation is that dogs see the world differently and pooping and peeing is part of claiming their turf. The back yard was his turf but now he has none except for the apartment. I think he will adapt in time, but it's a big transition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent point.  So how do I go about helping him adapt so that he can be out of the crate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, I for one am not above negative training. Some dog people freak out if you teach them the word no. I screamed bloody murder and let them know the top dog doesn't allow that kind of behavior. Didn't have to do it much, they caught on real quick.
> 
> Maybe if he had a favorite spot outside, a place to mark as his own? And like I said praising him when doing it outside. The get the point, master angry/master happy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The last thing you want to do with a dog is scream at them. Doesn't teach them anything. Whisper. They'll pay more attention. If a dog has been screamed at, it may take a little while to accustom her to listen to whispers but I guarantee, the dog WILL get it.
> 
> Dogs also respond to a different kind of physical punishment than humans mete out. No need to ever ever ever hit a dog. Better to think like other dogs. What would the Dog parent or dog aunts and uncles do? Treat the dog like he's a dog. If you watch Cesar, that's exactly what he does - he thinks and acts like a dog instead of an hysterical screaming human.
> 
> And dogs punish other dogs and then its forgotten. Don't hold a grudge and never react out of anger. The dog won't understand and you'll do more damage than good.
Click to expand...

All my dogs are punished by making them lay down. This is a submissive posture a dominant dog would do to them.


----------



## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mylo is a huge tangled ball of issues, most of which have to do with her breeding. Super intense prey drive, super dominant, moderately aggressive. Her reaction to the CRATE was anxiety driven, but we're dealing with that now. She could run all day...the more she exercises the higher her behavior amps up. Ultimately, she's a hard core hunting dog that doesn't hunt. Our lives will be improved if she can be crated. For one thing, I won't want to kill her because she craps on the carpet if she's left alone for two minutes (also a dominance based issue).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What was her background before you got her?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She belonged to a single guy who had a farm. He paid a lot for her, he had papers and she is well bred. He loved her, but he kept her tied up I think. He got married to a woman with kids and dogs and she didn't work well with them.
> 
> She's smart, loyal, fierce...and very dominant. She patrols continually, it's not obsessive it's just who she is. She kills, or tries to kill, anything smaller than her. She is bred to hunt foxes...carnivores. If she gets offleash, she goes hunting.
> 
> I don't know how productive it is to spend much time trying to piece together her past. I just want her to not crap and pee on my carpet ten times a day, and I would like to be able to leave a door open once in a while without panicking or having to des with pissed off neighbors or random passersby....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I was just wondering because if she were a puppy mill dog, accustomed to peeing and crapping in her cage, it can make it much harder to housebreak.  Is she a Jack Russel or a Rat Terrier?  I wonder if giving her activities to do might redirect some of her annoying qualities?  I have a 13 yr aussie with high prey drive, a reactive personality - over the years she's mellowed a bit, but I wouldn't wish her on anyone.   I started doing nosework with her and she loves it - she gets to use her hunt drive, she gets lot's of food rewards for finding it - and it seems to be helping with some issues I've had with her.  Someone else told me about Barn Hunt - where dogs, particularly terriers are trained to "hunt" using scent or, rats enclosed in safe cages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing like letting a dog do what it was bred to do to correct behavioral problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah I wish I had a pack of fox hunting digs and a stable....mylo would do great.
Click to expand...


Here's info on it - if you wanted to explore it (haven't tried it myself) Barn Hunt Association


----------



## koshergrl

Luddly Neddite said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're having to re-train our Golden Retriever, Malcolm.  No idea what his actual problem is, but ever since we moved to this apartment, he's gotten it into his head that he needs to poop and pee in the house.  I think it's because he's used to being let out into the backyard to run free while doing his business, and now he has to be walked on a leash.
> 
> He's driving me crazy.  We take him out of the crate, and he'll try to relieve himself right there while we're clipping the leash on.  We walk him, he does his business all over the designated area, and then as soon as he comes back inside, he'll go right there in the entry hall.  It's like he's saving some of it up for when he comes back inside.
> 
> 
> 
> My observation is that dogs see the world differently and pooping and peeing is part of claiming their turf. The back yard was his turf but now he has none except for the apartment. I think he will adapt in time, but it's a big transition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent point.  So how do I go about helping him adapt so that he can be out of the crate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, I for one am not above negative training. Some dog people freak out if you teach them the word no. I screamed bloody murder and let them know the top dog doesn't allow that kind of behavior. Didn't have to do it much, they caught on real quick.
> 
> Maybe if he had a favorite spot outside, a place to mark as his own? And like I said praising him when doing it outside. The get the point, master angry/master happy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The last thing you want to do with a dog is scream at them. Doesn't teach them anything. Whisper. They'll pay more attention. If a dog has been screamed at, it may take a little while to accustom her to listen to whispers but I guarantee, the dog WILL get it.
> 
> Dogs also respond to a different kind of physical punishment than humans mete out. No need to ever ever ever hit a dog. Better to think like other dogs. What would the Dog parent or dog aunts and uncles do? Treat the dog like he's a dog. If you watch Cesar, that's exactly what he does - he thinks and acts like a dog instead of an hysterical screaming human.
> 
> And dogs punish other dogs and then its forgotten. Don't hold a grudge and never react out of anger. The dog won't understand and you'll do more damage than good.
Click to expand...

Cesar uses touch to get their attention...it is not really hitting but it's a good jab that functions like a nip it bite. He also uses sound with the touch. It isn't yelling, but the word no isn't a bad sound to use, if it works. Obviously pounding on them and shrieking isn't terribly effective but I don't believe iceweasel does that.


----------



## koshergrl

Asclepias said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're having to re-train our Golden Retriever, Malcolm.  No idea what his actual problem is, but ever since we moved to this apartment, he's gotten it into his head that he needs to poop and pee in the house.  I think it's because he's used to being let out into the backyard to run free while doing his business, and now he has to be walked on a leash.
> 
> He's driving me crazy.  We take him out of the crate, and he'll try to relieve himself right there while we're clipping the leash on.  We walk him, he does his business all over the designated area, and then as soon as he comes back inside, he'll go right there in the entry hall.  It's like he's saving some of it up for when he comes back inside.
> 
> 
> 
> My observation is that dogs see the world differently and pooping and peeing is part of claiming their turf. The back yard was his turf but now he has none except for the apartment. I think he will adapt in time, but it's a big transition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent point.  So how do I go about helping him adapt so that he can be out of the crate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, I for one am not above negative training. Some dog people freak out if you teach them the word no. I screamed bloody murder and let them know the top dog doesn't allow that kind of behavior. Didn't have to do it much, they caught on real quick.
> 
> Maybe if he had a favorite spot outside, a place to mark as his own? And like I said praising him when doing it outside. The get the point, master angry/master happy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The last thing you want to do with a dog is scream at them. Doesn't teach them anything. Whisper. They'll pay more attention. If a dog has been screamed at, it may take a little while to accustom her to listen to whispers but I guarantee, the dog WILL get it.
> 
> Dogs also respond to a different kind of physical punishment than humans mete out. No need to ever ever ever hit a dog. Better to think like other dogs. What would the Dog parent or dog aunts and uncles do? Treat the dog like he's a dog. If you watch Cesar, that's exactly what he does - he thinks and acts like a dog instead of an hysterical screaming human.
> 
> And dogs punish other dogs and then its forgotten. Don't hold a grudge and never react out of anger. The dog won't understand and you'll do more damage than good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All my dogs are punished by making them lay down. This is a submissive posture a dominant dog would do to them.
Click to expand...

Sometimes a dominant dog just kills them, too. If you watch dog packs, they have more than one tool in their arsenal. And not all dogs submit. You can lay mylo down for an hour and she never submits.


----------



## Coyote

Asclepias said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What was her background before you got her?
> 
> 
> 
> She belonged to a single guy who had a farm. He paid a lot for her, he had papers and she is well bred. He loved her, but he kept her tied up I think. He got married to a woman with kids and dogs and she didn't work well with them.
> 
> She's smart, loyal, fierce...and very dominant. She patrols continually, it's not obsessive it's just who she is. She kills, or tries to kill, anything smaller than her. She is bred to hunt foxes...carnivores. If she gets offleash, she goes hunting.
> 
> I don't know how productive it is to spend much time trying to piece together her past. I just want her to not crap and pee on my carpet ten times a day, and I would like to be able to leave a door open once in a while without panicking or having to des with pissed off neighbors or random passersby....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I was just wondering because if she were a puppy mill dog, accustomed to peeing and crapping in her cage, it can make it much harder to housebreak.  Is she a Jack Russel or a Rat Terrier?  I wonder if giving her activities to do might redirect some of her annoying qualities?  I have a 13 yr aussie with high prey drive, a reactive personality - over the years she's mellowed a bit, but I wouldn't wish her on anyone.   I started doing nosework with her and she loves it - she gets to use her hunt drive, she gets lot's of food rewards for finding it - and it seems to be helping with some issues I've had with her.  Someone else told me about Barn Hunt - where dogs, particularly terriers are trained to "hunt" using scent or, rats enclosed in safe cages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing like letting a dog do what it was bred to do to correct behavioral problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's tough with difficult dogs to find them appropriate outlets - if they are reactive with dogs or people, that limits what you do and where you can take them, and with an older dog, there's not always a lot you can change.  Hazel loves Nosework and it gives her something to look forward to, plus tires her out - especially her overactive brain
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I trained all my Pitbulls how to play fetch.  They are notoriously dog aggressive after they get into their first fight.  I found that if I keyed their prey drive to play fetch they would ignore other dogs.  Older dogs are pretty tricky because it can be a hidden health problem or insecurity.
Click to expand...


That's a great tool to avoid redirected aggression.  My old aussie, Cowboy, when there was a lot of ampted up energy (like going in and out) - would reirect and nail one of the other dogs close to him -  he just couldn't help himself.  He taught himself to go grab something and hold it instead and I always made sure there were plenty of toys around.


----------



## koshergrl

Coyote said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What was her background before you got her?
> 
> 
> 
> She belonged to a single guy who had a farm. He paid a lot for her, he had papers and she is well bred. He loved her, but he kept her tied up I think. He got married to a woman with kids and dogs and she didn't work well with them.
> 
> She's smart, loyal, fierce...and very dominant. She patrols continually, it's not obsessive it's just who she is. She kills, or tries to kill, anything smaller than her. She is bred to hunt foxes...carnivores. If she gets offleash, she goes hunting.
> 
> I don't know how productive it is to spend much time trying to piece together her past. I just want her to not crap and pee on my carpet ten times a day, and I would like to be able to leave a door open once in a while without panicking or having to des with pissed off neighbors or random passersby....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I was just wondering because if she were a puppy mill dog, accustomed to peeing and crapping in her cage, it can make it much harder to housebreak.  Is she a Jack Russel or a Rat Terrier?  I wonder if giving her activities to do might redirect some of her annoying qualities?  I have a 13 yr aussie with high prey drive, a reactive personality - over the years she's mellowed a bit, but I wouldn't wish her on anyone.   I started doing nosework with her and she loves it - she gets to use her hunt drive, she gets lot's of food rewards for finding it - and it seems to be helping with some issues I've had with her.  Someone else told me about Barn Hunt - where dogs, particularly terriers are trained to "hunt" using scent or, rats enclosed in safe cages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing like letting a dog do what it was bred to do to correct behavioral problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah I wish I had a pack of fox hunting digs and a stable....mylo would do great.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here's info on it - if you wanted to explore it (haven't tried it myself) Barn Hunt Association
Click to expand...

Lol I've already scoped that out. Seems insanely fun!!!


----------



## Asclepias

koshergrl said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> My observation is that dogs see the world differently and pooping and peeing is part of claiming their turf. The back yard was his turf but now he has none except for the apartment. I think he will adapt in time, but it's a big transition.
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent point.  So how do I go about helping him adapt so that he can be out of the crate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, I for one am not above negative training. Some dog people freak out if you teach them the word no. I screamed bloody murder and let them know the top dog doesn't allow that kind of behavior. Didn't have to do it much, they caught on real quick.
> 
> Maybe if he had a favorite spot outside, a place to mark as his own? And like I said praising him when doing it outside. The get the point, master angry/master happy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The last thing you want to do with a dog is scream at them. Doesn't teach them anything. Whisper. They'll pay more attention. If a dog has been screamed at, it may take a little while to accustom her to listen to whispers but I guarantee, the dog WILL get it.
> 
> Dogs also respond to a different kind of physical punishment than humans mete out. No need to ever ever ever hit a dog. Better to think like other dogs. What would the Dog parent or dog aunts and uncles do? Treat the dog like he's a dog. If you watch Cesar, that's exactly what he does - he thinks and acts like a dog instead of an hysterical screaming human.
> 
> And dogs punish other dogs and then its forgotten. Don't hold a grudge and never react out of anger. The dog won't understand and you'll do more damage than good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All my dogs are punished by making them lay down. This is a submissive posture a dominant dog would do to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sometimes a dominant dog just kills them, too. If you watch dog packs, they have more than one tool in their arsenal. And not all dogs submit. You can lay mylo down for an hour and she never submits.
Click to expand...

I dont know how squeamish you are about this but if you muzzle her and physically force her to lay on her back she will eventually submit.  Its like brainwashing for humans.


----------



## koshergrl

Coyote said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> She belonged to a single guy who had a farm. He paid a lot for her, he had papers and she is well bred. He loved her, but he kept her tied up I think. He got married to a woman with kids and dogs and she didn't work well with them.
> 
> She's smart, loyal, fierce...and very dominant. She patrols continually, it's not obsessive it's just who she is. She kills, or tries to kill, anything smaller than her. She is bred to hunt foxes...carnivores. If she gets offleash, she goes hunting.
> 
> I don't know how productive it is to spend much time trying to piece together her past. I just want her to not crap and pee on my carpet ten times a day, and I would like to be able to leave a door open once in a while without panicking or having to des with pissed off neighbors or random passersby....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just wondering because if she were a puppy mill dog, accustomed to peeing and crapping in her cage, it can make it much harder to housebreak.  Is she a Jack Russel or a Rat Terrier?  I wonder if giving her activities to do might redirect some of her annoying qualities?  I have a 13 yr aussie with high prey drive, a reactive personality - over the years she's mellowed a bit, but I wouldn't wish her on anyone.   I started doing nosework with her and she loves it - she gets to use her hunt drive, she gets lot's of food rewards for finding it - and it seems to be helping with some issues I've had with her.  Someone else told me about Barn Hunt - where dogs, particularly terriers are trained to "hunt" using scent or, rats enclosed in safe cages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing like letting a dog do what it was bred to do to correct behavioral problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's tough with difficult dogs to find them appropriate outlets - if they are reactive with dogs or people, that limits what you do and where you can take them, and with an older dog, there's not always a lot you can change.  Hazel loves Nosework and it gives her something to look forward to, plus tires her out - especially her overactive brain
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I trained all my Pitbulls how to play fetch.  They are notoriously dog aggressive after they get into their first fight.  I found that if I keyed their prey drive to play fetch they would ignore other dogs.  Older dogs are pretty tricky because it can be a hidden health problem or insecurity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a great tool to avoid redirected aggression.  My old aussie, Cowboy, when there was a lot of ampted up energy (like going in and out) - would reirect and nail one of the other dogs close to him -  he just couldn't help himself.  He taught himself to go grab something and hold it instead and I always made sure there were plenty of toys around.
Click to expand...

See, Cesar would say you're just changing the focus, not the behavior. He says if you don't want a dog to engage its aggressive/prey drive, don't let it kill its toys. There are exceptions tho.


----------



## Coyote

Asclepias said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're having to re-train our Golden Retriever, Malcolm.  No idea what his actual problem is, but ever since we moved to this apartment, he's gotten it into his head that he needs to poop and pee in the house.  I think it's because he's used to being let out into the backyard to run free while doing his business, and now he has to be walked on a leash.
> 
> He's driving me crazy.  We take him out of the crate, and he'll try to relieve himself right there while we're clipping the leash on.  We walk him, he does his business all over the designated area, and then as soon as he comes back inside, he'll go right there in the entry hall.  It's like he's saving some of it up for when he comes back inside.
> 
> 
> 
> My observation is that dogs see the world differently and pooping and peeing is part of claiming their turf. The back yard was his turf but now he has none except for the apartment. I think he will adapt in time, but it's a big transition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent point.  So how do I go about helping him adapt so that he can be out of the crate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, I for one am not above negative training. Some dog people freak out if you teach them the word no. I screamed bloody murder and let them know the top dog doesn't allow that kind of behavior. Didn't have to do it much, they caught on real quick.
> 
> Maybe if he had a favorite spot outside, a place to mark as his own? And like I said praising him when doing it outside. The get the point, master angry/master happy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The last thing you want to do with a dog is scream at them. Doesn't teach them anything. Whisper. They'll pay more attention. If a dog has been screamed at, it may take a little while to accustom her to listen to whispers but I guarantee, the dog WILL get it.
> 
> Dogs also respond to a different kind of physical punishment than humans mete out. No need to ever ever ever hit a dog. Better to think like other dogs. What would the Dog parent or dog aunts and uncles do? Treat the dog like he's a dog. If you watch Cesar, that's exactly what he does - he thinks and acts like a dog instead of an hysterical screaming human.
> 
> And dogs punish other dogs and then its forgotten. Don't hold a grudge and never react out of anger. The dog won't understand and you'll do more damage than good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All my dogs are punished by making them lay down. This is a submissive posture a dominant dog would do to them.
Click to expand...


That's funny - with my dogs, I teach them to offer it, because it's also a relaxation posture - if they're lying down, it forces them to relax and if they learn to offer it voluntarily - they are also telling me they are relaxed enough to do it, and it gets heavily rewarded - it's an interesting dynamic.  I have one new dog, a foster that might stay....who is the hardest dog I've taught down to - I don't k now why.  He's not dominant, he looks to be a bc-jack mix...it could be his structure makes it harder, but I don't know.  First getting him down - then elbows down - then holding it.  He's got all that, but he still needs a bit of a lure at times.  I'll just have to wait him out...my other dogs picked it up after a very short time, but he's a very different character.  He also loves latex squeakies (because he can shake them and kill them) - has a terrier tenacity (mousing) and has learned to play tug with rules (like settle and give when I ask).  Tug seems a good outlet for him.


----------



## Asclepias

Coyote said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> My observation is that dogs see the world differently and pooping and peeing is part of claiming their turf. The back yard was his turf but now he has none except for the apartment. I think he will adapt in time, but it's a big transition.
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent point.  So how do I go about helping him adapt so that he can be out of the crate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, I for one am not above negative training. Some dog people freak out if you teach them the word no. I screamed bloody murder and let them know the top dog doesn't allow that kind of behavior. Didn't have to do it much, they caught on real quick.
> 
> Maybe if he had a favorite spot outside, a place to mark as his own? And like I said praising him when doing it outside. The get the point, master angry/master happy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The last thing you want to do with a dog is scream at them. Doesn't teach them anything. Whisper. They'll pay more attention. If a dog has been screamed at, it may take a little while to accustom her to listen to whispers but I guarantee, the dog WILL get it.
> 
> Dogs also respond to a different kind of physical punishment than humans mete out. No need to ever ever ever hit a dog. Better to think like other dogs. What would the Dog parent or dog aunts and uncles do? Treat the dog like he's a dog. If you watch Cesar, that's exactly what he does - he thinks and acts like a dog instead of an hysterical screaming human.
> 
> And dogs punish other dogs and then its forgotten. Don't hold a grudge and never react out of anger. The dog won't understand and you'll do more damage than good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All my dogs are punished by making them lay down. This is a submissive posture a dominant dog would do to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's funny - with my dogs, I teach them to offer it, because it's also a relaxation posture - if they're lying down, it forces them to relax and if they learn to offer it voluntarily - they are also telling me they are relaxed enough to do it, and it gets heavily rewarded - it's an interesting dynamic.  I have one new dog, a foster that might stay....who is the hardest dog I've taught down to - I don't k now why.  He's not dominant, he looks to be a bc-jack mix...it could be his structure makes it harder, but I don't know.  First getting him down - then elbows down - then holding it.  He's got all that, but he still needs a bit of a lure at times.  I'll just have to wait him out...my other dogs picked it up after a very short time, but he's a very different character.  He also loves latex squeakies (because he can shake them and kill them) - has a terrier tenacity (mousing) and has learned to play tug with rules (like settle and give when I ask).  Tug seems a good outlet for him.
Click to expand...

Try doing it before you feed him. My routine with any dogs involves making them lay down and waiting until I give them the command to eat.  I remember I was showing a neighbor how to do it and we got distracted and went back in the house. Both my dogs were still there waiting to eat about 30 minutes later with drool all over the place. I felt really bad but my neighbor got the point.


----------



## koshergrl

Asclepias said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent point.  So how do I go about helping him adapt so that he can be out of the crate?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I for one am not above negative training. Some dog people freak out if you teach them the word no. I screamed bloody murder and let them know the top dog doesn't allow that kind of behavior. Didn't have to do it much, they caught on real quick.
> 
> Maybe if he had a favorite spot outside, a place to mark as his own? And like I said praising him when doing it outside. The get the point, master angry/master happy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The last thing you want to do with a dog is scream at them. Doesn't teach them anything. Whisper. They'll pay more attention. If a dog has been screamed at, it may take a little while to accustom her to listen to whispers but I guarantee, the dog WILL get it.
> 
> Dogs also respond to a different kind of physical punishment than humans mete out. No need to ever ever ever hit a dog. Better to think like other dogs. What would the Dog parent or dog aunts and uncles do? Treat the dog like he's a dog. If you watch Cesar, that's exactly what he does - he thinks and acts like a dog instead of an hysterical screaming human.
> 
> And dogs punish other dogs and then its forgotten. Don't hold a grudge and never react out of anger. The dog won't understand and you'll do more damage than good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All my dogs are punished by making them lay down. This is a submissive posture a dominant dog would do to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sometimes a dominant dog just kills them, too. If you watch dog packs, they have more than one tool in their arsenal. And not all dogs submit. You can lay mylo down for an hour and she never submits.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I dont know how squeamish you are about this but if you muzzle her and physically force her to lay on her back she will eventually submit.  Its like brainwashing for humans.
Click to expand...

It would take, literally, hours. She doesn't submit. I've tried. She gets more and more resistant the longer it goes on.


----------



## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was just wondering because if she were a puppy mill dog, accustomed to peeing and crapping in her cage, it can make it much harder to housebreak.  Is she a Jack Russel or a Rat Terrier?  I wonder if giving her activities to do might redirect some of her annoying qualities?  I have a 13 yr aussie with high prey drive, a reactive personality - over the years she's mellowed a bit, but I wouldn't wish her on anyone.   I started doing nosework with her and she loves it - she gets to use her hunt drive, she gets lot's of food rewards for finding it - and it seems to be helping with some issues I've had with her.  Someone else told me about Barn Hunt - where dogs, particularly terriers are trained to "hunt" using scent or, rats enclosed in safe cages.
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing like letting a dog do what it was bred to do to correct behavioral problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's tough with difficult dogs to find them appropriate outlets - if they are reactive with dogs or people, that limits what you do and where you can take them, and with an older dog, there's not always a lot you can change.  Hazel loves Nosework and it gives her something to look forward to, plus tires her out - especially her overactive brain
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I trained all my Pitbulls how to play fetch.  They are notoriously dog aggressive after they get into their first fight.  I found that if I keyed their prey drive to play fetch they would ignore other dogs.  Older dogs are pretty tricky because it can be a hidden health problem or insecurity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a great tool to avoid redirected aggression.  My old aussie, Cowboy, when there was a lot of ampted up energy (like going in and out) - would reirect and nail one of the other dogs close to him -  he just couldn't help himself.  He taught himself to go grab something and hold it instead and I always made sure there were plenty of toys around.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See, Cesar would say you're just changing the focus, not the behavior. He says if you don't want a dog to engage its aggressive/prey drive, don't let it kill its toys. There are exceptions tho.
Click to expand...


He's actually never killed his toys, but I think by teaching a dog to redirect - you are changing the behavior.  If he gets a toy in his mouth, he then can't turn and bite at the other dog.  It's not aggression per se  - it's over ampted up energy that he doesn't know what to do with.   Another trainer I really like, Suzanne Clothier breeds and trains German Shepherds and has anywhere from 7 to a dozen dogs at a time.  When you have that many high drive working dogs together there are bound to be some problems.  She taught every dog from puppyhood to love Kongs.  She keeps a basket of them by the door and there's this cool video she showed where they are all being let out to run (she has a farm) and as they're streaming out, they grab a kong.  There is one dog that is a boarder, so he doesn't know the rules, so he goes running out and starts to nip at the running dogs, however, other than a few glares and head turns, they ignore him because no one wants to let go of the kong and get into a fight, so he finally gives up.  The problem of dog fights in a high energy situation is resolved by something that is easy to maintain once taught, and is self-reinforcing to the dog.


----------



## Coyote

Asclepias said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent point.  So how do I go about helping him adapt so that he can be out of the crate?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I for one am not above negative training. Some dog people freak out if you teach them the word no. I screamed bloody murder and let them know the top dog doesn't allow that kind of behavior. Didn't have to do it much, they caught on real quick.
> 
> Maybe if he had a favorite spot outside, a place to mark as his own? And like I said praising him when doing it outside. The get the point, master angry/master happy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The last thing you want to do with a dog is scream at them. Doesn't teach them anything. Whisper. They'll pay more attention. If a dog has been screamed at, it may take a little while to accustom her to listen to whispers but I guarantee, the dog WILL get it.
> 
> Dogs also respond to a different kind of physical punishment than humans mete out. No need to ever ever ever hit a dog. Better to think like other dogs. What would the Dog parent or dog aunts and uncles do? Treat the dog like he's a dog. If you watch Cesar, that's exactly what he does - he thinks and acts like a dog instead of an hysterical screaming human.
> 
> And dogs punish other dogs and then its forgotten. Don't hold a grudge and never react out of anger. The dog won't understand and you'll do more damage than good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All my dogs are punished by making them lay down. This is a submissive posture a dominant dog would do to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's funny - with my dogs, I teach them to offer it, because it's also a relaxation posture - if they're lying down, it forces them to relax and if they learn to offer it voluntarily - they are also telling me they are relaxed enough to do it, and it gets heavily rewarded - it's an interesting dynamic.  I have one new dog, a foster that might stay....who is the hardest dog I've taught down to - I don't k now why.  He's not dominant, he looks to be a bc-jack mix...it could be his structure makes it harder, but I don't know.  First getting him down - then elbows down - then holding it.  He's got all that, but he still needs a bit of a lure at times.  I'll just have to wait him out...my other dogs picked it up after a very short time, but he's a very different character.  He also loves latex squeakies (because he can shake them and kill them) - has a terrier tenacity (mousing) and has learned to play tug with rules (like settle and give when I ask).  Tug seems a good outlet for him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try doing it before you feed him. My routine with any dogs involves making them lay down and waiting until I give them the command to eat.  I remember I was showing a neighbor how to do it and we got distracted and went back in the house. Both my dogs were still there waiting to eat about 30 minutes later with drool all over the place. I felt really bad but my neighbor got the point.
Click to expand...


That's a good idea - I haven't tried using his meal for a down.  He's pretty quick on other things - sit was easy, and because he loves a certain tug toy so much - I've taught him to wait until I tell him "break" to grab it from me.  Never had terrier types before (always herding dogs) - so he's an interesting combo.


----------



## koshergrl

I've  done the whole relaxation/submission posturing thing a la Cesar. It doesn't work with her, not that way.


----------



## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> I've  done the whole relaxation/submission posturing thing a la Cesar. It doesn't work with her, not that way.



What happens when you do it?


----------



## Coyote

Coyote said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've  done the whole relaxation/submission posturing thing a la Cesar. It doesn't work with her, not that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What happens when you do it?
Click to expand...


oh wait - never mind, I saw you already answered.


----------



## Asclepias

koshergrl said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I for one am not above negative training. Some dog people freak out if you teach them the word no. I screamed bloody murder and let them know the top dog doesn't allow that kind of behavior. Didn't have to do it much, they caught on real quick.
> 
> Maybe if he had a favorite spot outside, a place to mark as his own? And like I said praising him when doing it outside. The get the point, master angry/master happy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The last thing you want to do with a dog is scream at them. Doesn't teach them anything. Whisper. They'll pay more attention. If a dog has been screamed at, it may take a little while to accustom her to listen to whispers but I guarantee, the dog WILL get it.
> 
> Dogs also respond to a different kind of physical punishment than humans mete out. No need to ever ever ever hit a dog. Better to think like other dogs. What would the Dog parent or dog aunts and uncles do? Treat the dog like he's a dog. If you watch Cesar, that's exactly what he does - he thinks and acts like a dog instead of an hysterical screaming human.
> 
> And dogs punish other dogs and then its forgotten. Don't hold a grudge and never react out of anger. The dog won't understand and you'll do more damage than good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All my dogs are punished by making them lay down. This is a submissive posture a dominant dog would do to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sometimes a dominant dog just kills them, too. If you watch dog packs, they have more than one tool in their arsenal. And not all dogs submit. You can lay mylo down for an hour and she never submits.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I dont know how squeamish you are about this but if you muzzle her and physically force her to lay on her back she will eventually submit.  Its like brainwashing for humans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It would take, literally, hours. She doesn't submit. I've tried. She gets more and more resistant the longer it goes on.
Click to expand...

Dont do it for hours. Thats actually pretty cruel. Do it for maybe a minute or two several times a day. I guarantee it will work.


----------



## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I for one am not above negative training. Some dog people freak out if you teach them the word no. I screamed bloody murder and let them know the top dog doesn't allow that kind of behavior. Didn't have to do it much, they caught on real quick.
> 
> Maybe if he had a favorite spot outside, a place to mark as his own? And like I said praising him when doing it outside. The get the point, master angry/master happy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The last thing you want to do with a dog is scream at them. Doesn't teach them anything. Whisper. They'll pay more attention. If a dog has been screamed at, it may take a little while to accustom her to listen to whispers but I guarantee, the dog WILL get it.
> 
> Dogs also respond to a different kind of physical punishment than humans mete out. No need to ever ever ever hit a dog. Better to think like other dogs. What would the Dog parent or dog aunts and uncles do? Treat the dog like he's a dog. If you watch Cesar, that's exactly what he does - he thinks and acts like a dog instead of an hysterical screaming human.
> 
> And dogs punish other dogs and then its forgotten. Don't hold a grudge and never react out of anger. The dog won't understand and you'll do more damage than good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All my dogs are punished by making them lay down. This is a submissive posture a dominant dog would do to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sometimes a dominant dog just kills them, too. If you watch dog packs, they have more than one tool in their arsenal. And not all dogs submit. You can lay mylo down for an hour and she never submits.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I dont know how squeamish you are about this but if you muzzle her and physically force her to lay on her back she will eventually submit.  Its like brainwashing for humans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It would take, literally, hours. She doesn't submit. I've tried. She gets more and more resistant the longer it goes on.
Click to expand...


This is something where I tend to disagree with CM.  Forcing a dog to submit vs. the dog volunteering to submit.  I know it's all supposed to be based on the way wolves behave, but if you ever watch a wolf pack in the wild, the alpha dog is not going around forcing submission all the time.  He almost never actually has to.  The lower ranking dogs offer it willingly.  The problem with forcing submission is that people often misread the dog and thinking the dog is acting dominant, when what is driving it might be something else completely.  Forcing a dog to submit in those cases is counterproductive and can even make situation worse.

Cowboy was a dog that would do anything I asked but he could be hardheaded at times.  If he was manhandled he would resist until he was totally panicked.  If he was asked - or shown how - he would willingly do it.  When he was around 2, we ran him throught the ATT Temperment Test.  One of the segments involved things that would startle or frighten him and his reaction would be judged in accordance with what was expected of him.  We taught him a "nose touch" - for things that he was afraid of.  He would touch it with his nose and get a reward.  He remember this, several years later, when I had to give him liquid medicine.  I was in a big hurry because I was running late to work, so I sat him, held him place and tried to give it to him and he resisted and then started to panic and fight.  Finally I got so frustrated, I just let him go and sat there holding the syringe.  He waited a few seconds, then approached me, did a nose touch to the syringe.  I was able to give him the medicine when I realized what he was telling me and listened.  If I had kept fighting him, I would have damaged the trust between us and it would have taken a long time to get it back.

With some dogs, I find it better to make them work for everything - like Asclepias was saying to use breakfast.  I'll lure them to lie down, and then wait and see if they offer it after a while and reward that.  Once they understand that down will earn them something, you can start to vary it.   Some dogs though, are difficult to get down.  Sometimes, because it's a very vulnerable posture, they may be reluctant to - but sometimes I wonder if their structure makes it more difficult.  I notice this particularly with toy breeds.


----------



## Muhammed

Carla_Danger said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 54030 View attachment 54031
> 
> I have had Mylo for about nine years, and she was two when I got her. She is very dominant and a tad aggressive so we spend a lot of energy keeping her and everybody else as safe as possible. She also poops and pees indiscriminately the minute she is alone.
> 
> She has always been so terrible about crating that I just never utilize it. She starts barking, scratching, whining, peeing, biting at the cage the minute she goes in and does not stop.
> 
> It never occurred to me to just crate train her. Instead of thinking she needed trained, I assumed it wouldn't work, or had been tried and failed.
> 
> I feel like an idiot!!! I've been dealing with her foibles for years and it never occurred to me to just train her.
> 
> I started yesterday...life is already easier. She went in on her own this am. I left her in while I did little things like make coffee and run laundry. I hope that soon I can crate her when I'm out if the house, when we travel to visit family, or when we have company. What that will mean for Mylo is her level of isolation will decrease. If she's crated she can at least be in the same room with everybody. Now she has to be put away because she bites and fights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That dog looks miserable in that crate.
Click to expand...

He can barely even move in that tiny cage. It's fucking torture.

Koshergrl should not own a pet dog.


----------



## Asclepias

Muhammed said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 54030 View attachment 54031
> 
> I have had Mylo for about nine years, and she was two when I got her. She is very dominant and a tad aggressive so we spend a lot of energy keeping her and everybody else as safe as possible. She also poops and pees indiscriminately the minute she is alone.
> 
> She has always been so terrible about crating that I just never utilize it. She starts barking, scratching, whining, peeing, biting at the cage the minute she goes in and does not stop.
> 
> It never occurred to me to just crate train her. Instead of thinking she needed trained, I assumed it wouldn't work, or had been tried and failed.
> 
> I feel like an idiot!!! I've been dealing with her foibles for years and it never occurred to me to just train her.
> 
> I started yesterday...life is already easier. She went in on her own this am. I left her in while I did little things like make coffee and run laundry. I hope that soon I can crate her when I'm out if the house, when we travel to visit family, or when we have company. What that will mean for Mylo is her level of isolation will decrease. If she's crated she can at least be in the same room with everybody. Now she has to be put away because she bites and fights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That dog looks miserable in that crate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He can barely even move in that tiny cage. It's fucking torture.
> 
> Koshergrl should not own a pet dog.
Click to expand...


Crate Training : The Humane Society of the United States

"Your dog's crate should be just large enough for him to stand up and turn around in. "


Choosing the Right Crate Size


----------



## Coyote

Muhammed said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 54030 View attachment 54031
> 
> I have had Mylo for about nine years, and she was two when I got her. She is very dominant and a tad aggressive so we spend a lot of energy keeping her and everybody else as safe as possible. She also poops and pees indiscriminately the minute she is alone.
> 
> She has always been so terrible about crating that I just never utilize it. She starts barking, scratching, whining, peeing, biting at the cage the minute she goes in and does not stop.
> 
> It never occurred to me to just crate train her. Instead of thinking she needed trained, I assumed it wouldn't work, or had been tried and failed.
> 
> I feel like an idiot!!! I've been dealing with her foibles for years and it never occurred to me to just train her.
> 
> I started yesterday...life is already easier. She went in on her own this am. I left her in while I did little things like make coffee and run laundry. I hope that soon I can crate her when I'm out if the house, when we travel to visit family, or when we have company. What that will mean for Mylo is her level of isolation will decrease. If she's crated she can at least be in the same room with everybody. Now she has to be put away because she bites and fights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That dog looks miserable in that crate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He can barely even move in that tiny cage. It's fucking torture.
> 
> Koshergrl should not own a pet dog.
Click to expand...


No it's not, she has ample room to stand fully, turn around and lie down.  She is not confined 24/7 and for her it offers her a space where she feels, safe, and secure and isn't isolated from household activities.


----------



## koshergrl

Coyote said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> It also will mean I can leave my bedroom door open and move around the house without constantly keeping tabs on her. She's not the sort of dog you can just relax around if there are kids or other digs in the vicinity. You have to monitor her, or someone will get bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you also tried baby gates?  I have two females that need close monitoring when out so I rotate them and have one either crated or baby-gated in my office.  For a while, I had double gates with several feet in between just incase there was fence fighting, but ended up not really needing it.  They're happy to avoid each other when given the opportunity.
Click to expand...

I can configure the crate that way and thought about it but I'm really trying to get her crate trained first because of the pooping peeing thing and because we're going to mom's for thanksgiving and I want to be able to keep her in the house. Last time we visited was a nightmare...she barks the whole time she's in the house if she's separated from us, and when she's loose she's patrolling. It's a pain in the ass. And I'm sick of dealing with crap in my bedroom.


----------



## koshergrl

Luddly Neddite said:


> That's not a crate. Its a cage. Seriously.
> 
> Because its open on all sides, you are actually increasing her anxiety. Get an enclosed crate where she can feel secure instead of feeling like a sitting duck.
> 
> Remember that, even dogs are domesticated, they still retain certain attributes of their wild cousins as well as other wild animals. You'll never see a wild animal laying down for a comfy snooze in the wide open spaces. Give her a cave and she'll be a lot calmer.
> 
> It also needs to be a tad bigger with more padding. If she is closer to one person in the household, toss in a piece of that person's dirty clothing. Give her enough material to let her nest. She needs to be able to rearrange the furniture to her own liking.
> 
> I would almost always go for a GSD size. If you can't afford one new, check thrift stores and yard sales. We just took two to our animal shelter and I'm sure we're not the only ones who have too man on hand.
> 
> As you train her, use a treat. When you tell her its time for her crate, toss the treat in first.
> 
> Keeping dogs in crates can be incredibly cruel but it can also be a form of comfort and shelter. It all depends on their human. Never use it as a form of punishment.
> 
> BTW - often, people will call a dog to them to punish them. Dumb. All that teaches is not to come when they're called. Dogs are pack animals and we are their pack. If you want to punish a dog, send them away from you. But not for long periods.


Actually, it's a crate. You will notice the door is open. She's not spending any period of time in there yet. If I cover it she pulls the covering inside and pisses on it. I am using food to reward her. She went in by herself this am, she has never done that (well she went in once to piss inside when she was left alone with the open crate for five mins). The fact that she is sitting in there calmly is a huge step forward.


----------



## koshergrl

Coyote said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've  done the whole relaxation/submission posturing thing a la Cesar. It doesn't work with her, not that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What happens when you do it?
Click to expand...

She is like a tightly wound spring. She'll lay there, but it's not submission, and the minute you relax she's up. I tried it a few years ago for sessions of up to an hour, based on the idea that "they can'tmaintain resistance for that long".... we got nowhere. I'm not going to hold her down for eight hours waiting for submission. Not all methods work for all dogs.


----------



## Iceweasel

koshergrl said:


> Obviously pounding on them and shrieking isn't terribly effective but I don't believe iceweasel does that.


Who said that? I have a number of hate filled retards on filter. No, I don't need to hit them, the tone is all it takes. The Rat Terrier is like a rebellious teenager, always pushing the limits. My female mix would rather die than get me upset and I have to be careful what I say to the RT because it's like saying it to her too.


----------



## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've  done the whole relaxation/submission posturing thing a la Cesar. It doesn't work with her, not that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What happens when you do it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She is like a tightly wound spring. She'll lay there, but it's not submission, and the minute you relax she's up. I tried it a few years ago for sessions of up to an hour, based on the idea that "they can'tmaintain resistance for that long".... we got nowhere. I'm not going to hold her down for eight hours waiting for submission. Not all methods work for all dogs.
Click to expand...


Totally agree - they're all tools to have in your tool box, key is to have a variety


----------



## koshergrl

Coyote said:


> Muhammed said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 54030 View attachment 54031
> 
> I have had Mylo for about nine years, and she was two when I got her. She is very dominant and a tad aggressive so we spend a lot of energy keeping her and everybody else as safe as possible. She also poops and pees indiscriminately the minute she is alone.
> 
> She has always been so terrible about crating that I just never utilize it. She starts barking, scratching, whining, peeing, biting at the cage the minute she goes in and does not stop.
> 
> It never occurred to me to just crate train her. Instead of thinking she needed trained, I assumed it wouldn't work, or had been tried and failed.
> 
> I feel like an idiot!!! I've been dealing with her foibles for years and it never occurred to me to just train her.
> 
> I started yesterday...life is already easier. She went in on her own this am. I left her in while I did little things like make coffee and run laundry. I hope that soon I can crate her when I'm out if the house, when we travel to visit family, or when we have company. What that will mean for Mylo is her level of isolation will decrease. If she's crated she can at least be in the same room with everybody. Now she has to be put away because she bites and fights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That dog looks miserable in that crate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He can barely even move in that tiny cage. It's fucking torture.
> 
> Koshergrl should not own a pet dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it's not, she has ample room to stand fully, turn around and lie down.  She is not confined 24/7 and for her it offers her a space where she feels, safe, and secure and isn't isolated from household activities.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Once she gets it, she's going to love it.


----------



## koshergrl

Muhammed said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 54030 View attachment 54031
> 
> I have had Mylo for about nine years, and she was two when I got her. She is very dominant and a tad aggressive so we spend a lot of energy keeping her and everybody else as safe as possible. She also poops and pees indiscriminately the minute she is alone.
> 
> She has always been so terrible about crating that I just never utilize it. She starts barking, scratching, whining, peeing, biting at the cage the minute she goes in and does not stop.
> 
> It never occurred to me to just crate train her. Instead of thinking she needed trained, I assumed it wouldn't work, or had been tried and failed.
> 
> I feel like an idiot!!! I've been dealing with her foibles for years and it never occurred to me to just train her.
> 
> I started yesterday...life is already easier. She went in on her own this am. I left her in while I did little things like make coffee and run laundry. I hope that soon I can crate her when I'm out if the house, when we travel to visit family, or when we have company. What that will mean for Mylo is her level of isolation will decrease. If she's crated she can at least be in the same room with everybody. Now she has to be put away because she bites and fights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That dog looks miserable in that crate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He can barely even move in that tiny cage. It's fucking torture.
> 
> Koshergrl should not own a pet dog.
Click to expand...

She has plenty of room. You should shut up.


----------



## Muhammed

koshergrl said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muhammed said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 54030 View attachment 54031
> 
> I have had Mylo for about nine years, and she was two when I got her. She is very dominant and a tad aggressive so we spend a lot of energy keeping her and everybody else as safe as possible. She also poops and pees indiscriminately the minute she is alone.
> 
> She has always been so terrible about crating that I just never utilize it. She starts barking, scratching, whining, peeing, biting at the cage the minute she goes in and does not stop.
> 
> It never occurred to me to just crate train her. Instead of thinking she needed trained, I assumed it wouldn't work, or had been tried and failed.
> 
> I feel like an idiot!!! I've been dealing with her foibles for years and it never occurred to me to just train her.
> 
> I started yesterday...life is already easier. She went in on her own this am. I left her in while I did little things like make coffee and run laundry. I hope that soon I can crate her when I'm out if the house, when we travel to visit family, or when we have company. What that will mean for Mylo is her level of isolation will decrease. If she's crated she can at least be in the same room with everybody. Now she has to be put away because she bites and fights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That dog looks miserable in that crate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He can barely even move in that tiny cage. It's fucking torture.
> 
> Koshergrl should not own a pet dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it's not, she has ample room to stand fully, turn around and lie down.  She is not confined 24/7 and for her it offers her a space where she feels, safe, and secure and isn't isolated from household activities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly. Once she gets it, she's going to love it.
Click to expand...

Would you love it?


----------



## Coyote

Muhammed said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muhammed said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 54030 View attachment 54031
> 
> I have had Mylo for about nine years, and she was two when I got her. She is very dominant and a tad aggressive so we spend a lot of energy keeping her and everybody else as safe as possible. She also poops and pees indiscriminately the minute she is alone.
> 
> She has always been so terrible about crating that I just never utilize it. She starts barking, scratching, whining, peeing, biting at the cage the minute she goes in and does not stop.
> 
> It never occurred to me to just crate train her. Instead of thinking she needed trained, I assumed it wouldn't work, or had been tried and failed.
> 
> I feel like an idiot!!! I've been dealing with her foibles for years and it never occurred to me to just train her.
> 
> I started yesterday...life is already easier. She went in on her own this am. I left her in while I did little things like make coffee and run laundry. I hope that soon I can crate her when I'm out if the house, when we travel to visit family, or when we have company. What that will mean for Mylo is her level of isolation will decrease. If she's crated she can at least be in the same room with everybody. Now she has to be put away because she bites and fights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That dog looks miserable in that crate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He can barely even move in that tiny cage. It's fucking torture.
> 
> Koshergrl should not own a pet dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it's not, she has ample room to stand fully, turn around and lie down.  She is not confined 24/7 and for her it offers her a space where she feels, safe, and secure and isn't isolated from household activities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly. Once she gets it, she's going to love it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would you love it?
Click to expand...


Dogs are den animals, that is one reason crates work well - it's not abusing them unless they are crated all the time.  I have 4 crates and the doors are open most  of the time (they only need crated at certain times).  They wander in and out of each other's crates at will and I'm always finding someone asleep inside - with the door open.

Of course sometimes... we find a bit of a surprise


----------



## Carla_Danger

Muhammed said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 54030 View attachment 54031
> 
> I have had Mylo for about nine years, and she was two when I got her. She is very dominant and a tad aggressive so we spend a lot of energy keeping her and everybody else as safe as possible. She also poops and pees indiscriminately the minute she is alone.
> 
> She has always been so terrible about crating that I just never utilize it. She starts barking, scratching, whining, peeing, biting at the cage the minute she goes in and does not stop.
> 
> It never occurred to me to just crate train her. Instead of thinking she needed trained, I assumed it wouldn't work, or had been tried and failed.
> 
> I feel like an idiot!!! I've been dealing with her foibles for years and it never occurred to me to just train her.
> 
> I started yesterday...life is already easier. She went in on her own this am. I left her in while I did little things like make coffee and run laundry. I hope that soon I can crate her when I'm out if the house, when we travel to visit family, or when we have company. What that will mean for Mylo is her level of isolation will decrease. If she's crated she can at least be in the same room with everybody. Now she has to be put away because she bites and fights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That dog looks miserable in that crate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He can barely even move in that tiny cage. It's fucking torture.
> 
> Koshergrl should not own a pet dog.
Click to expand...



I wouldn't go that far.  A lot of people crate their dogs who are very good dog owners. I was just commenting on the look on the dogs face.

I'm very happy to have the type of dogs that don't need to be put in crates. I've got a doggie door, and I'm lucky enough to be able to work from home. My dogs go in and out when they want.


----------



## koshergrl

Muhammed said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muhammed said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 54030 View attachment 54031
> 
> I have had Mylo for about nine years, and she was two when I got her. She is very dominant and a tad aggressive so we spend a lot of energy keeping her and everybody else as safe as possible. She also poops and pees indiscriminately the minute she is alone.
> 
> She has always been so terrible about crating that I just never utilize it. She starts barking, scratching, whining, peeing, biting at the cage the minute she goes in and does not stop.
> 
> It never occurred to me to just crate train her. Instead of thinking she needed trained, I assumed it wouldn't work, or had been tried and failed.
> 
> I feel like an idiot!!! I've been dealing with her foibles for years and it never occurred to me to just train her.
> 
> I started yesterday...life is already easier. She went in on her own this am. I left her in while I did little things like make coffee and run laundry. I hope that soon I can crate her when I'm out if the house, when we travel to visit family, or when we have company. What that will mean for Mylo is her level of isolation will decrease. If she's crated she can at least be in the same room with everybody. Now she has to be put away because she bites and fights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That dog looks miserable in that crate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He can barely even move in that tiny cage. It's fucking torture.
> 
> Koshergrl should not own a pet dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it's not, she has ample room to stand fully, turn around and lie down.  She is not confined 24/7 and for her it offers her a space where she feels, safe, and secure and isn't isolated from household activities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly. Once she gets it, she's going to love it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would you love it?
Click to expand...

I'm not a dog. Though I definitely love hanging out in my room, have no problem sitting for three hours at a whack at a desk or on a car. When she's nit rampaging, mylo lays on my bed happily for hours. She just needs to get used to the crate.


----------



## koshergrl

Carla_Danger said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 54030 View attachment 54031
> 
> I have had Mylo for about nine years, and she was two when I got her. She is very dominant and a tad aggressive so we spend a lot of energy keeping her and everybody else as safe as possible. She also poops and pees indiscriminately the minute she is alone.
> 
> She has always been so terrible about crating that I just never utilize it. She starts barking, scratching, whining, peeing, biting at the cage the minute she goes in and does not stop.
> 
> It never occurred to me to just crate train her. Instead of thinking she needed trained, I assumed it wouldn't work, or had been tried and failed.
> 
> I feel like an idiot!!! I've been dealing with her foibles for years and it never occurred to me to just train her.
> 
> I started yesterday...life is already easier. She went in on her own this am. I left her in while I did little things like make coffee and run laundry. I hope that soon I can crate her when I'm out if the house, when we travel to visit family, or when we have company. What that will mean for Mylo is her level of isolation will decrease. If she's crated she can at least be in the same room with everybody. Now she has to be put away because she bites and fights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That dog looks miserable in that crate.
Click to expand...


She hates having her picture taken. She averts her head and avoids looking at the camera. 

She actually came out and went back in on her own within five minutes of those pictures.


----------



## koshergrl

Iceweasel said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously pounding on them and shrieking isn't terribly effective but I don't believe iceweasel does that.
> 
> 
> 
> Who said that? I have a number of hate filled retards on filter.
Click to expand...

Yeah ppl  like to flock to the hobby forums to say nasty things. Sealybobo used to love to comment how ugly mylo is whenever I spanked him. Carla's here musing on how miserable mylo looked in the pictures, the implication being of course that I'm abusing her lol.


----------



## Carla_Danger

Coyote said:


> Muhammed said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muhammed said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> That dog looks miserable in that crate.
> 
> 
> 
> He can barely even move in that tiny cage. It's fucking torture.
> 
> Koshergrl should not own a pet dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it's not, she has ample room to stand fully, turn around and lie down.  She is not confined 24/7 and for her it offers her a space where she feels, safe, and secure and isn't isolated from household activities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly. Once she gets it, she's going to love it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would you love it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dogs are den animals, that is one reason crates work well - it's not abusing them unless they are crated all the time.  I have 4 crates and the doors are open most  of the time (they only need crated at certain times).  They wander in and out of each other's crates at will and I'm always finding someone asleep inside - with the door open.
> 
> Of course sometimes... we find a bit of a surprise
Click to expand...




LOL, that's cute!

My dogs are too lazy to need a crate. They are too lazy to tear up a house. I just need a larger chair for them in my computer room.  lol


----------



## Asclepias

Carla_Danger said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muhammed said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muhammed said:
> 
> 
> 
> He can barely even move in that tiny cage. It's fucking torture.
> 
> Koshergrl should not own a pet dog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it's not, she has ample room to stand fully, turn around and lie down.  She is not confined 24/7 and for her it offers her a space where she feels, safe, and secure and isn't isolated from household activities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly. Once she gets it, she's going to love it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would you love it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dogs are den animals, that is one reason crates work well - it's not abusing them unless they are crated all the time.  I have 4 crates and the doors are open most  of the time (they only need crated at certain times).  They wander in and out of each other's crates at will and I'm always finding someone asleep inside - with the door open.
> 
> Of course sometimes... we find a bit of a surprise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, that's cute!
> 
> My dogs are too lazy to need a crate. They are too lazy to tear up a house. I just need a larger chair for them in my computer room.  lol
> 
> 
> View attachment 54066
Click to expand...

Pugs?  Maybe I can talk my mom into getting one of these. Her dog is too big for her.


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously pounding on them and shrieking isn't terribly effective but I don't believe iceweasel does that.
> 
> 
> 
> Who said that? I have a number of hate filled retards on filter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah ppl  like to flock to the hobby forums to say nasty things. Sealybobo used to love to comment how ugly mylo is whenever I spanked him. Carla's here musing on how miserable mylo looked in the pictures, the implication being of course that I'm abusing her lol.
Click to expand...




I never implied that you are abusing your dog.  But come on, look at her face, she does look pretty miserable in that photo. I have no doubt she'll be just fine after she gets used to her crate.


----------



## Carla_Danger

Asclepias said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muhammed said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it's not, she has ample room to stand fully, turn around and lie down.  She is not confined 24/7 and for her it offers her a space where she feels, safe, and secure and isn't isolated from household activities.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. Once she gets it, she's going to love it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would you love it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dogs are den animals, that is one reason crates work well - it's not abusing them unless they are crated all the time.  I have 4 crates and the doors are open most  of the time (they only need crated at certain times).  They wander in and out of each other's crates at will and I'm always finding someone asleep inside - with the door open.
> 
> Of course sometimes... we find a bit of a surprise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, that's cute!
> 
> My dogs are too lazy to need a crate. They are too lazy to tear up a house. I just need a larger chair for them in my computer room.  lol
> 
> 
> View attachment 54066
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pugs?  Maybe I can talk my mom into getting one of these. Her dog is too big for her.
Click to expand...




They are perfect little dogs, once you get used to the snoring. They are very low maintenance, great with children, and other animals.


----------



## Carla_Danger

Asclepias said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muhammed said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it's not, she has ample room to stand fully, turn around and lie down.  She is not confined 24/7 and for her it offers her a space where she feels, safe, and secure and isn't isolated from household activities.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. Once she gets it, she's going to love it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would you love it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dogs are den animals, that is one reason crates work well - it's not abusing them unless they are crated all the time.  I have 4 crates and the doors are open most  of the time (they only need crated at certain times).  They wander in and out of each other's crates at will and I'm always finding someone asleep inside - with the door open.
> 
> Of course sometimes... we find a bit of a surprise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, that's cute!
> 
> My dogs are too lazy to need a crate. They are too lazy to tear up a house. I just need a larger chair for them in my computer room.  lol
> 
> 
> View attachment 54066
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pugs?  Maybe I can talk my mom into getting one of these. Her dog is too big for her.
Click to expand...




Just an FYI, the fawn pugs shed like crazy, but the black ones don't. If your mom wants really, really, low maintenance, go with a little black pug!  They're both pretty stinking cute!  

I used to have a lot of black in my wardrobe, but that is no longer the case.


----------



## koshergrl

Carla_Danger said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously pounding on them and shrieking isn't terribly effective but I don't believe iceweasel does that.
> 
> 
> 
> Who said that? I have a number of hate filled retards on filter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah ppl  like to flock to the hobby forums to say nasty things. Sealybobo used to love to comment how ugly mylo is whenever I spanked him. Carla's here musing on how miserable mylo looked in the pictures, the implication being of course that I'm abusing her lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never implied that you are abusing your dog.  But come on, look at her face, she does look pretty miserable in that photo. I have no doubt she'll be just fine after she gets used to her crate.
Click to expand...

Ok I  have to take stealth pictures of her to get decent pics because she avoids the camera and looks abused if she knows I'm taking pics.

 I was literally hiding the camera from her here.


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## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously pounding on them and shrieking isn't terribly effective but I don't believe iceweasel does that.
> 
> 
> 
> Who said that? I have a number of hate filled retards on filter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah ppl  like to flock to the hobby forums to say nasty things. Sealybobo used to love to comment how ugly mylo is whenever I spanked him. Carla's here musing on how miserable mylo looked in the pictures, the implication being of course that I'm abusing her lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never implied that you are abusing your dog.  But come on, look at her face, she does look pretty miserable in that photo. I have no doubt she'll be just fine after she gets used to her crate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok I  have to take stealth pictures of her to get decent pics because she avoids the camera and looks abused if she knows I'm taking pics.View attachment 54072 I was literally hiding the camera from her here.
Click to expand...




That's much better.  lol


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## Coyote

I think Mylo's cute - she's got a sweet face


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## koshergrl

Coyote said:


> I think Mylo's cute - she's got a sweet face


Mylo is a noble, faithful and brave companion. High maintenance, but oh well...


----------



## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Mylo's cute - she's got a sweet face
> 
> 
> 
> Mylo is a noble, faithful and brave companion. High maintenance, but oh well...
Click to expand...


She's a diva 

I admit I'm partial to dogs with a bit of "naughty"...


----------



## koshergrl

And she can jump about five feet straight up from a standing or sitting stance.


----------



## koshergrl

Coyote said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Mylo's cute - she's got a sweet face
> 
> 
> 
> Mylo is a noble, faithful and brave companion. High maintenance, but oh well...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She's a diva
> 
> I admit I'm partial to dogs with a bit of "naughty"...
Click to expand...

Lol she has a lot of naughty haha.


----------



## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Mylo's cute - she's got a sweet face
> 
> 
> 
> Mylo is a noble, faithful and brave companion. High maintenance, but oh well...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She's a diva
> 
> I admit I'm partial to dogs with a bit of "naughty"...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol she has a lot of naughty haha.
Click to expand...



I'm partial to German-Shepherd Collie mixes...two of the best (and naughtiest) dogs I had were of that mix.

Sometime ago I lived in a small A-frame.  I had two bitches, Elsa and Deena who would periodically get into hellacious fights (and that was before I knew a lot about dog behavior).  I also had Hootie - a huge Shep/Collie mix too smart for his own good.  One day the girls got into a fight up in the loft and I was the only one there.  So I ran upstairs to break it up, and there was Hootie watching...he looked at me, looked at them, and when he noticed my attention was fully engaged he went downstairs, stole a loaf of bread from on top the fridge, consumed it, lifted a leg on the wood stove and said to himself "this is a good day".

He was a shit!   but oh I loved him


----------



## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> And she can jump about five feet straight up from a standing or sitting stance.



I bet she would be fun for trick training!


----------



## koshergrl

Coyote said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> And she can jump about five feet straight up from a standing or sitting stance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bet she would be fun for trick training!
Click to expand...

I'm so uncreative that way. I mean it took almost ten years for me to think 'hey I could crate train her!' 

Snoop has learned to open the fridge and help himself to the contents, however. Yesterday he dined on bacon and butter and some chicken.


----------



## koshergrl

Today he ate all the bagels.


----------



## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> And she can jump about five feet straight up from a standing or sitting stance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bet she would be fun for trick training!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm so uncreative that way. I mean it took almost ten years for me to think 'hey I could crate train her!'
> 
> Snoop has learned to open the fridge and help himself to the contents, however. Yesterday he dined on bacon and butter and some chicken.
Click to expand...


  I think I would like Snoop - Hootie could open cabinets and fridge doors 

I train trick to keep them mentally busy - I find stuff on the internet.  I'm playing around with different things - we do an early morning before work session - sometimes it's good, sometimes a flop but they never know!


----------



## koshergrl

What trick should I try with Mylo?

 Snoop talking to me....


----------



## Coyote

Easy tricks are - sit pretty, or stand up on hind legs and dance.  You can also do roll over, give paw, high five.  I use clicker training for a lot of tricks.  She's small so - jumping through arms can be a good one


----------



## Iceweasel

My dogs don't know any tricks but understand a lot of words and phrases. Like with humans, the better the communication the better things go. I understand a lot from them too as they have learned to express their minds too. I taught them 'breakfast', which means food since I didn't try to teach them lunch and dinner. So the word breakfast gets them hopping around morning, noon or night.

'Do you want to go to the dog park' gets them going ballistic on weekends. They know stay, stop, no, ok, sit, the basics. The Rat Terrier is very smart and knows the difference between the red racketball, blue racketball, white ball, handball and squeakyball. 

If they are doing something I don't want I usually just say their name and they stop, they know what the routine is.


----------



## koshergrl

Mylo spent about an hour in the crate this am while we went for breakfast. She did pee in it, but her degree of agitation was about 1/2 or less than in the past. She was not scrabbling and barking like she did before. Was fairly calm when I got her out. So progress.


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## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> And she can jump about five feet straight up from a standing or sitting stance.




My dogs can't jump over a 2 ft fence.  lol  I know this because after one tornado destroyed my fence, I put up a make-shift until I could get mine fixed.

The only thing I have to worry about with my dogs is someone kidnapping them from my yard. When they go out the doggie door, I swear my head is out the door every 2 minutes checking on them. I watch them as close as I would any 5 yr old out playing in the yard.


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> Mylo spent about an hour in the crate this am while we went for breakfast. She did pee in it, but her degree of agitation was about 1/2 or less than in the past. She was not scrabbling and barking like she did before. Was fairly calm when I got her out. So progress.





I'm glad to hear she's getting used to her crate. Sounds like you made the right decision.  I gotta admit that when I first saw this thread and her photo, it reminded me of that commercial...the commercial I won't watch. lol


----------



## Coyote

I had a long drive today transporting two dogs and it gave me lots of time to think.  I don't know alot about Rat Terriers - but from what folks are saying they are really hardwired to hunt and exterminate so I was thinking on ways to reduce her anxiety by giving her legall outlets for her instincts plus a mental workout.  There a number of games you can introduce her to that might help with that.  Many dogs like to "search and destroy" - it plays to their instincts.  

Taking her meal (if it's kibble) and hiding it in stashes around the room for her to find and consume. Start out easy, with her watching from her crate so she see's where you put it, and then letting her out to find it.  You can up the difficulty - adding some height, place it in a small paper bag or twist or toilet paper tube so she has to work at getting it out and the scent is less obvious.  You would need to babygate her in so she's the only dog doing it.

If her first action upon getting outside is to  hunt - maybe set up a game for that to - so yes, she can hunt, but it's with your rules.  Hide food in an easy to find area, put her on a long line, and let her find it.  Make it obvious at first, then gradually harder.  When she finds it - she gets to consume it, but even better - you drop one at a time several more treats on the spot to encourage to her stay there and get rewarded instead of hustling off.  You can increase difficulty of hides as she gets better - even using toilet paper tubes, burying it in a shallow hole, hanging it from something.   I'm thinking it gives her an outlet to work off some of her anxiety, give her a job that's in line with her instincts plus - improve your partnership.  It might indirectly help with the potty issues as well.

I do some of this with my guys with nosework, but haven't tried it with meals and I think I might.

Another thing she might enjoy is putting kibble in a Buster Cube - she has to work at getting it out and that will tire her out.


----------



## Cecilie1200

I have discovered that I can stop Malcolm's tendency to try to relieve himself while one is still putting the leash on him by holding onto the base of his tail.  As long as he can feel my hand tugging on his tail, he apparently will not pee or poop.  So that at least makes it easier to get him out for his walks.


----------



## koshergrl

Iceweasel has the rat terrier...mylo is a parson Russell. She's a jack Russell on steroids. Those are excellent suggestions.


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## koshergrl

Cecilie1200 said:


> I have discovered that I can stop Malcolm's tendency to try to relieve himself while one is still putting the leash on him by holding onto the base of his tail.  As long as he can feel my hand tugging on his tail, he apparently will not pee or poop.  So that at least makes it easier to get him out for his walks.


The things we do...


----------



## koshergrl

American Kennel Club - The Dog’s Champion


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## Cecilie1200

koshergrl said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have discovered that I can stop Malcolm's tendency to try to relieve himself while one is still putting the leash on him by holding onto the base of his tail.  As long as he can feel my hand tugging on his tail, he apparently will not pee or poop.  So that at least makes it easier to get him out for his walks.
> 
> 
> 
> The things we do...
Click to expand...


It's just his tail, silly.  

Basically, we open the door of the crate and he shoots out of it, all excited, and as he runs past, I grab him by the tail and hold onto him while my son snaps the leash on his collar.

Beats cleaning up the mess.


----------



## koshergrl

Cecilie1200 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have discovered that I can stop Malcolm's tendency to try to relieve himself while one is still putting the leash on him by holding onto the base of his tail.  As long as he can feel my hand tugging on his tail, he apparently will not pee or poop.  So that at least makes it easier to get him out for his walks.
> 
> 
> 
> The things we do...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's just his tail, silly.
> 
> Basically, we open the door of the crate and he shoots out of it, all excited, and as he runs past, I grab him by the tail and hold onto him while my son snaps the leash on his collar.
> 
> Beats cleaning up the mess.
Click to expand...

Oh I agree.

Mylo is now going into the crate totally willingly and under her own power. I have her go in and out regularly and praise her a lot. She only comes out when she's calm and not barking. She went in again when we went to lunch (new house, not cooking much yet, not unpacked) and the house was quiet when we came home. She did pee in there but that beats peeing on the floor. I'm hopeful that will improve but it is one of the primary reasons I want to crate her anyway. I think it's going very well.


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## Carla_Danger

Until I got Jackson fixed, I had him wear a belly band. That belly band was worth its weight in gold.


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## Coyote

Carla_Danger said:


> View attachment 54124
> 
> 
> Until I got Jackson fixed, I had him wear a belly band. That belly band was worth its weight in gold.



Wish it was that easy with a female!  Nice portrait


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## Coyote

There's a special place in heaven for terrier owners!


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## Carla_Danger

Coyote said:


> There's a special place in heaven for terrier owners!





Obama's dog pals around with terriers.


----------



## Iceweasel

Coyote said:


> I had a long drive today transporting two dogs and it gave me lots of time to think.  I don't know alot about Rat Terriers - but from what folks are saying they are really hardwired to hunt and exterminate so I was thinking on ways to reduce her anxiety by giving her legall outlets for her instincts plus a mental workout.  There a number of games you can introduce her to that might help with that.  Many dogs like to "search and destroy" - it plays to their instincts.


Having had my Rat Terrier for 11 years I can say they do have those instincts but with mine it isn't about the hunt itself but the catching a fast moving object. My guy is a very dominant type and bullied his brother into submission. I often thought I should have picked him instead.  

He would go after snakes and rattle their world but them lose interest, didn't care if they were alive or not. My Amstaff is far more of a hunter, she goes for the kill and does so time to time. 
The best exercises for my RT is chasing a laser dot, for a quick workout, and the racketball off the ball. That's his favorite gig. He will bring you the ball he has chosen for the moment, depends on his mood I guess, but he loves chasing and catching it. He can determine the trajectory coming off of two walls and snag it right out of the air. The faster the better.


----------



## koshergrl

Mylo catches birds out of the air. She once killed a robin while wearing a muzzle. She also loses interest - the second they expire. She goes after snakes but has never figured out how to kill one.


----------



## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> Mylo catches birds out of the air. She once killed a robin while wearing a muzzle. She also loses interest - the second they expire. She goes after snakes but has never figured out how to kill one.




I have a current foster right now that may become permenent if he wins over hubby - I think he is BC/terrier.  He's the only dog I've had that chases birds plus he's very attracted to sqeakies that he can "shake and kill" and balls, that roll - definately movement.  He likes to play tug, so I introduced him to a "moo-tug" by wiggling it along the ground and he was hooked.  Now all he has to do is see me hold it and he is fixated - totally - it's all he wants.  We're working on "impulse control" - sit, and wait, for the release to go grab it, then we play, then we end the play he gets a treat for releasing it.  But his temperment is soft - a bit more biddable than a terrier I'm thinking.  His structure is odd too - not BC in angulation, very long legs but only 20 lbs of dog.


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## Iceweasel

Cute dog Coyote. The mixes are often the best dogs.


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## koshergrl

That vicious shake is pure terrier, though. That's how they kill stuff. I know that shake well lol.


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## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> That vicious shake is pure terrier, though. That's how they kill stuff. I know that shake well lol.



The first day he was here, he discovered this "AngryBird" latex toy - he shook it so hard, it flew out of his mouth and lodged in the couch pillows - he spent a good five minutes circling the couch, sniffing and airscenting trying to find it - he wouldn't give up until he found it.


----------



## koshergrl

Coyote said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> That vicious shake is pure terrier, though. That's how they kill stuff. I know that shake well lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first day he was here, he discovered this "AngryBird" latex toy - he shook it so hard, it flew out of his mouth and lodged in the couch pillows - he spent a good five minutes circling the couch, sniffing and airscenting trying to find it - he wouldn't give up until he found it.
Click to expand...

He sure is pretty!


----------



## Cecilie1200

koshergrl said:


> Mylo catches birds out of the air. She once killed a robin while wearing a muzzle. She also loses interest - the second they expire. She goes after snakes but has never figured out how to kill one.



Thank God Malcolm doesn't go after snakes.  Out here, they'd be likely to be rattlesnakes or sidewinders.


----------



## Coyote

Cecilie1200 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mylo catches birds out of the air. She once killed a robin while wearing a muzzle. She also loses interest - the second they expire. She goes after snakes but has never figured out how to kill one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank God Malcolm doesn't go after snakes.  Out here, they'd be likely to be rattlesnakes or sidewinders.
Click to expand...


Ugh...we have more benign snakes...we do have timber rattlers and copperheads but I have only encountered them rarely.

One of my former dogs, a sheltie mix Abby conducted a very brave campaign of leap, snatch and toss with a ... shed snakeskin


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## koshergrl

No poisonous snakes here, just garters and non venomous water snakes.


----------



## Gracie

I don't believe in crating a dog.

Just sayin'.


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## Coyote

Gracie said:


> I don't believe in crating a dog.
> 
> Just sayin'.



And if not crating works for you - all the better 

All of my dogs have been crate trained - the difference it makes in housebreaking is huge.  They don't all need to be crated later on - in fact, they can all be trusted loose but they can't all be trusted together.


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## koshergrl

I don't believe in mylo pissing and crapping on the floor 15x a day and attacking you children and other animals. I am the end of the road for her. There is no reason she can't chill in a crate when I'm out or we have company. The alternative for her is death. Nobody else will adopt her. Even if they did, it would break her heart.


----------



## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> I don't believe in mylo pissing and crapping on the floor 15x a day and attacking you children and other animals. I am the end of the road for her. There is no reason she can't chill in a crate when I'm out or we have company. The alternative for her is death. Nobody else will adopt her. Even if they did, it would break her heart.



I agree.

You're protecting her from herself and quite likely reducing the anxiety she has about being in situations that she can't handle and her behavior is telling you that.

If a dog doesn't need a crate, that is wonderful - but that isn't always the case and it's not cruel when used properly.  I keep finding dogs in crates, even when the door is open...cats too...sometimes both...


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## koshergrl

She's going in hers more and more frequently. She hasn't peed in there once today....


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## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> She's going in hers more and more frequently. She hasn't peed in there once today....



Yay! That IS progress 

(she is a cute little devil)


----------



## koshergrl

Coyote said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's going in hers more and more frequently. She hasn't peed in there once today....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yay! That IS progress
> 
> (she is a cute little devil)
Click to expand...

Devil being the operative word, haha. When I got her, she had no white at all around her eyes! She is an amazing example of the breed standard. You know how they dock their tails long? It's supposed to be a hand's breadth, it is the "handle" of a prt. Handlers pull them off prey or out of holes by their tails. It's supposed to be strong enough for that. Hers is, I've pulled her off things a few times that way.


----------



## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's going in hers more and more frequently. She hasn't peed in there once today....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yay! That IS progress
> 
> (she is a cute little devil)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Devil being the operative word, haha. When I got her, she had no white at all around her eyes! She is an amazing example of the breed standard. You know how they dock their tails long? It's supposed to be a hand's breadth, it is the "handle" of a prt. Handlers pull them off prey or out of holes by their tails. It's supposed to be strong enough for that. Hers is, I've pulled her off things a few times that way.
Click to expand...


I don't know much about terriers except they're tough smart dogs - I never thought I'd have one but I am pretty sure there is some in Dash.  I'm a hardcore herding dog addict but I'm trying to expand my horizons - Rosie is part Akita, my last foster was a beagle mix (sweet smart dog, but hubby wasn't too happy when he trenched the back yard...plus...couldn't be off leash).  I see a lot of Jacks (or Parsons - not sure which) in our area - they're popular, but seem to vary a lot.  The ones in our classes have been smart - very smart, and they do good in the tricks classes.


----------



## mudwhistle

koshergrl said:


> Mylo is a huge tangled ball of issues, most of which have to do with her breeding. Super intense prey drive, super dominant, moderately aggressive. Her reaction to the CRATE was anxiety driven, but we're dealing with that now. She could run all day...the more she exercises the higher her behavior amps up. Ultimately, she's a hard core hunting dog that doesn't hunt. Our lives will be improved if she can be crated. For one thing, I won't want to kill her because she craps on the carpet if she's left alone for two minutes (also a dominance based issue).


She craps because she's mad you left her alone.

The only way to train a hard-headed dog is crate them while you're at work. Make sure you take her out before you leave....and don't give her anything to eat or drink after she's been outside to potty. Praise her when she goes outside. She has to get so she looks forward to doing her business outside.


----------



## koshergrl

Coyote said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's going in hers more and more frequently. She hasn't peed in there once today....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yay! That IS progress
> 
> (she is a cute little devil)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Devil being the operative word, haha. When I got her, she had no white at all around her eyes! She is an amazing example of the breed standard. You know how they dock their tails long? It's supposed to be a hand's breadth, it is the "handle" of a prt. Handlers pull them off prey or out of holes by their tails. It's supposed to be strong enough for that. Hers is, I've pulled her off things a few times that way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know much about terriers except they're tough smart dogs - I never thought I'd have one but I am pretty sure there is some in Dash.  I'm a hardcore herding dog addict but I'm trying to expand my horizons - Rosie is part Akita, my last foster was a beagle mix (sweet smart dog, but hubby wasn't too happy when he trenched the back yard...plus...couldn't be off leash).  I see a lot of Jacks (or Parsons - not sure which) in our area - they're popular, but seem to vary a lot.  The ones in our classes have been smart - very smart, and they do good in the tricks classes.
Click to expand...

Yes they do vary. I've never been big on terriers..the only dog that ever bit me as a child was my uncle's tiny little terrier, Cindy. Uncle worked making docks and developing roads and parking lots for the state. He was a strong, beautiful, smart man who had run radio line ahead of the front line  in Korea. He always had a terrier. He brought one home from overseas. He refused to leave it behind, he said Koreans were terrible to dogs and that particular one had saved him many times.

Anyway, we'd go visit him at his house, and he would be in his recliner with his feet up, and Cindy in the crook of his arm, and she viciously attacked anybody who invaded his personal space lolol. Or pointed at her.

I love all dogs and find them fascinating. They always surprise me. Mylo has surprised me. She has such a big heart, and she's so darned brave, it's impossible not to admire her. It took her fully two years to recover from being rehomed...though I didn't realize it until after two years had passed, and I got to know her better. She's special but then, so are they all.


----------



## koshergrl

mudwhistle said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mylo is a huge tangled ball of issues, most of which have to do with her breeding. Super intense prey drive, super dominant, moderately aggressive. Her reaction to the CRATE was anxiety driven, but we're dealing with that now. She could run all day...the more she exercises the higher her behavior amps up. Ultimately, she's a hard core hunting dog that doesn't hunt. Our lives will be improved if she can be crated. For one thing, I won't want to kill her because she craps on the carpet if she's left alone for two minutes (also a dominance based issue).
> 
> 
> 
> She craps because she's mad you left her alone.
> 
> The only way to train a hard-headed dog is crate them while you're at work. Make sure you take her out before you leave....and don't give her anything to eat or drink after she's been outside to potty. Praise her when she goes outside. She has to get so she looks forward to doing her business outside.
Click to expand...

Yup yup.


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## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's going in hers more and more frequently. She hasn't peed in there once today....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yay! That IS progress
> 
> (she is a cute little devil)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Devil being the operative word, haha. When I got her, she had no white at all around her eyes! She is an amazing example of the breed standard. You know how they dock their tails long? It's supposed to be a hand's breadth, it is the "handle" of a prt. Handlers pull them off prey or out of holes by their tails. It's supposed to be strong enough for that. Hers is, I've pulled her off things a few times that way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know much about terriers except they're tough smart dogs - I never thought I'd have one but I am pretty sure there is some in Dash.  I'm a hardcore herding dog addict but I'm trying to expand my horizons - Rosie is part Akita, my last foster was a beagle mix (sweet smart dog, but hubby wasn't too happy when he trenched the back yard...plus...couldn't be off leash).  I see a lot of Jacks (or Parsons - not sure which) in our area - they're popular, but seem to vary a lot.  The ones in our classes have been smart - very smart, and they do good in the tricks classes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes they do vary. I've never been big on terriers..the only dog that ever bit me as a child was my uncle's tiny little terrier, Cindy. Uncle worked making docks and developing roads and parking lots for the state. He was a strong, beautiful, smart man who had run radio line ahead of the front line  in Korea. He always had a terrier. He brought one home from overseas. He refused to leave it behind, he said Koreans were terrible to dogs and that particular one had saved him many times.
> 
> Anyway, we'd go visit him at his house, and he would be in his recliner with his feet up, and Cindy in the crook of his arm, and she viciously attacked anybody who invaded his personal space lolol. Or pointed at her.
> 
> I love all dogs and find them fascinating. They always surprise me. Mylo has surprised me. She has such a big heart, and she's so darned brave, it's impossible not to admire her. It took her fully two years to recover from being rehomed...though I didn't realize it until after two years had passed, and I got to know her better. *She's special but then, so are they all.*
Click to expand...


I couldn't agree more - everyone of my dogs has taught me something, and each has taken a piece of my heart with them when they've gone.  There just incredible creatures


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## koshergrl

I've been feeding and treating her inside the crate, with the door open. She's very food oriented so I know that she has to have pleasant connotations to the crate if she gets food there. Also putting her in, then leaving the room...she always will bark but when she stops and is quiet I let her out. I swear I already see a difference. Tomorrow we're upping the stakes a little...three two hour stretches in the crate. It's kind of fast, but we are dealing with a couple of time issues....we're traveling for thanksgiving, plus I don't want to live in a room that smells worse than a kennel (because she pees on the carpet). We'll see how it goes.


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## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> I've been feeding and treating her inside the crate, with the door open. She's very food oriented so I know that she has to have pleasant connotations to the crate if she gets food there. Also putting her in, then leaving the room...she always will bark but when she stops and is quiet I let her out. I swear I already see a difference. Tomorrow we're upping the stakes a little...three two hour stretches in the crate. It's kind of fast, but we are dealing with a couple of time issues....we're traveling for thanksgiving, plus I don't want to live in a room that smells worse than a kennel (because she pees on the carpet). We'll see how it goes.



It sounds like you're doing it exactly the right way, increasing the duration.  One thing I've heard that makes a good crate treat is frozen stuffed kongs - takes time to clean them out and they only get it in the crate


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## koshergrl

Another cute thing she does.....pulls the blankets off my queen bed and pees on them. Isn't that special....


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## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> Another cute thing she does.....pulls the blankets off my queen bed and pees on them. Isn't that special....



Oh geez...ya...real special...


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## koshergrl

Coyote said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been feeding and treating her inside the crate, with the door open. She's very food oriented so I know that she has to have pleasant connotations to the crate if she gets food there. Also putting her in, then leaving the room...she always will bark but when she stops and is quiet I let her out. I swear I already see a difference. Tomorrow we're upping the stakes a little...three two hour stretches in the crate. It's kind of fast, but we are dealing with a couple of time issues....we're traveling for thanksgiving, plus I don't want to live in a room that smells worse than a kennel (because she pees on the carpet). We'll see how it goes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like you're doing it exactly the right way, increasing the duration.  One thing I've heard that makes a good crate treat is frozen stuffed kongs - takes time to clean them out and they only get it in the crate
Click to expand...

Yes that's next on the list. For both pups.


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## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been feeding and treating her inside the crate, with the door open. She's very food oriented so I know that she has to have pleasant connotations to the crate if she gets food there. Also putting her in, then leaving the room...she always will bark but when she stops and is quiet I let her out. I swear I already see a difference. Tomorrow we're upping the stakes a little...three two hour stretches in the crate. It's kind of fast, but we are dealing with a couple of time issues....we're traveling for thanksgiving, plus I don't want to live in a room that smells worse than a kennel (because she pees on the carpet). We'll see how it goes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like you're doing it exactly the right way, increasing the duration.  One thing I've heard that makes a good crate treat is frozen stuffed kongs - takes time to clean them out and they only get it in the crate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes that's next on the list. For both pups.
Click to expand...


I love your Pit, such a character!  My friend, who I'm fostering Dash for, has an all breed rescue but she has a soft spot for Pit's and her's are awesome temperment, if I don't keep Dash, my next foster might be Dylon, one of her Pits.  Or...maybe I'll foster him anyway if she still has him in the summer


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## koshergrl

Coyote said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been feeding and treating her inside the crate, with the door open. She's very food oriented so I know that she has to have pleasant connotations to the crate if she gets food there. Also putting her in, then leaving the room...she always will bark but when she stops and is quiet I let her out. I swear I already see a difference. Tomorrow we're upping the stakes a little...three two hour stretches in the crate. It's kind of fast, but we are dealing with a couple of time issues....we're traveling for thanksgiving, plus I don't want to live in a room that smells worse than a kennel (because she pees on the carpet). We'll see how it goes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like you're doing it exactly the right way, increasing the duration.  One thing I've heard that makes a good crate treat is frozen stuffed kongs - takes time to clean them out and they only get it in the crate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes that's next on the list. For both pups.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I love your Pit, such a character!  My friend, who I'm fostering Dash for, has an all breed rescue but she has a soft spot for Pit's and her's are awesome temperment, if I don't keep Dash, my next foster might be Dylon, one of her Pits.  Or...maybe I'll foster him anyway if she still has him in the summer
Click to expand...

 they are amazing....another surprise for me. Such good temperaments, so clever.


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## Cecilie1200

Gracie said:


> I don't believe in crating a dog.
> 
> Just sayin'.



Not sure what there is to "believe in" or "not believe in".  It's not religion.  It's a scientific fact that canines are instinctively drawn to having dens, and proper crate training merely takes advantage of those instincts.


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## Cecilie1200

Coyote said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe in mylo pissing and crapping on the floor 15x a day and attacking you children and other animals. I am the end of the road for her. There is no reason she can't chill in a crate when I'm out or we have company. The alternative for her is death. Nobody else will adopt her. Even if they did, it would break her heart.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree.
> 
> You're protecting her from herself and quite likely reducing the anxiety she has about being in situations that she can't handle and her behavior is telling you that.
> 
> If a dog doesn't need a crate, that is wonderful - but that isn't always the case and it's not cruel when used properly.  I keep finding dogs in crates, even when the door is open...cats too...sometimes both...
Click to expand...


My dogs have all been crate-trained, and once trained, have used it as their own comfy safe space.  I figure they need privacy once in a while, just like we humans do.


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## Gracie

Cecilie1200 said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe in crating a dog.
> 
> Just sayin'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what there is to "believe in" or "not believe in".  It's not religion.  It's a scientific fact that canines are instinctively drawn to having dens, and proper crate training merely takes advantage of those instincts.
Click to expand...

I am not arguing this. Period. I don't believe in crating a dog any more than I believe in tying one up in the back yard with its own dog house. 
That is my personal views. Period. You can argue it til the cows come home and it will never change my views. My dog(s) have their den. Moki likes being under daddys bed, karma likes being ON my bed. 

End of story.


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## koshergrl

Gracie said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe in crating a dog.
> 
> Just sayin'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what there is to "believe in" or "not believe in".  It's not religion.  It's a scientific fact that canines are instinctively drawn to having dens, and proper crate training merely takes advantage of those instincts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not arguing this. Period. I don't believe in crating a dog any more than I believe in tying one up in the back yard with its own dog house.
> That is my personal views. Period. You can argue it til the cows come home and it will never change my views. My dog(s) have their den. Moki likes being under daddys bed, karma likes being ON my bed.
> 
> End of story.
Click to expand...

Good for them.

I can't keep mylo if she continues to piss and shit all over the bedroom floor. If I give her away, she's a dead dog.

Her den is a crate, and it is saving her life.


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## Gracie

koshergrl said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe in crating a dog.
> 
> Just sayin'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what there is to "believe in" or "not believe in".  It's not religion.  It's a scientific fact that canines are instinctively drawn to having dens, and proper crate training merely takes advantage of those instincts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not arguing this. Period. I don't believe in crating a dog any more than I believe in tying one up in the back yard with its own dog house.
> That is my personal views. Period. You can argue it til the cows come home and it will never change my views. My dog(s) have their den. Moki likes being under daddys bed, karma likes being ON my bed.
> 
> End of story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good for them.
> 
> I can't keep mylo if she continues to piss and shit all over the bedroom floor. If I give her away, she's a dead dog.
> 
> Her den is a crate, and it is saving her life.
Click to expand...

And thats all that matters. Gotta do what ya gotta do for the furkid. I am not dissing anyone that crates. Just saying I won't. Unless that situation happened with me, then I probably would.


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## Claudette

My dogs are all crate trained.

I leave the doors open and the dogs go in and out all day. Locking them in is nothing to them. They treat the crate like a den.

Crates are wonderful. They save your carpeting, doors and hardwood floors.

You should see my GSD get in the BC crate. She wobbled the whole thing as she turns around in it. She then lays down and is completely happy.

If you show dogs crates are a must. The crates now are made out of cloth and nylon. they are light and not problem to set up. Way different than the old metal and Vari  crates. And any well trained dog has no problem staying in one,


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## saveliberty

I wonder if people jail would work better if you let them out everyday until they changed behavior?


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## koshergrl

Well she's doing okay. She still whines and barks if she's in the crate and I'm in the house which is a pain in the ass because the reason I need her crate trained is so that I can put her up when my mother comes to visit with her two antique poodles. I'm not having much luck getting her to be quiet.

I worked a few minutes with her this morning, trying to teach her to jump through my arms. Not super successful so far, she's soooo stubborn, makes me insane. She jumps all OVER the place until she thinks you might want her to, then she sulls up.


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## Cecilie1200

Claudette said:


> My dogs are all crate trained.
> 
> I leave the doors open and the dogs go in and out all day. Locking them in is nothing to them. They treat the crate like a den.
> 
> Crates are wonderful. They save your carpeting, doors and hardwood floors.
> 
> You should see my GSD get in the BC crate. She wobbled the whole thing as she turns around in it. She then lays down and is completely happy.
> 
> If you show dogs crates are a must. The crates now are made out of cloth and nylon. they are light and not problem to set up. Way different than the old metal and Vari  crates. And any well trained dog has no problem staying in one,



It's also an extremely good idea should you ever need to travel with your dog.  It makes the entire process easier and less stressful on the dog if the crate is already something he's familiar and comfortable with, rather than just another source of fear and uncertainty.


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## Cecilie1200

saveliberty said:


> I wonder if people jail would work better if you let them out everyday until they changed behavior?



Dogs are better creatures at heart than humans are.


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## saveliberty

Cecilie1200 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if people jail would work better if you let them out everyday until they changed behavior?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogs are better creatures at heart than humans are.
Click to expand...


No, I expect people to act humanely, dogs as animals.  When a dog acts humanely and a human as an animal, that is where we are humbled.


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## Cecilie1200

saveliberty said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if people jail would work better if you let them out everyday until they changed behavior?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogs are better creatures at heart than humans are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I expect people to act humanely, dogs as animals.  When a dog acts humanely and a human as an animal, that is where we are humbled.
Click to expand...


I think people SHOULD act humanely.  I have too much experience of humans to EXPECT it.


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## saveliberty

Cecilie1200 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if people jail would work better if you let them out everyday until they changed behavior?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogs are better creatures at heart than humans are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I expect people to act humanely, dogs as animals.  When a dog acts humanely and a human as an animal, that is where we are humbled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think people SHOULD act humanely.  I have too much experience of humans to EXPECT it.
Click to expand...


Oh I get disappointed, but optimism is my policy.  May your week ahead be filled with unexpected kind acts.


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## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> Well she's doing okay. She still whines and barks if she's in the crate and I'm in the house which is a pain in the ass because the reason I need her crate trained is so that I can put her up when my mother comes to visit with her two antique poodles. I'm not having much luck getting her to be quiet.
> 
> I worked a few minutes with her this morning, trying to teach her to jump through my arms. Not super successful so far, she's soooo stubborn, makes me insane. She jumps all OVER the place until she thinks you might want her to, then she sulls up.



Try teaching her to jump over a stick first.  I did that with Rue:
I set up a jump (a pole on two supports like a couple of books - sat next to it, and used a treat to lure him over each way, telling him "hup" - that taught him the cue.
Then I transitioned to a stick I'm holding in one hand, teaching her to jump over that (he had a little trouble so I made it easier by first positioning the stick against a wall so he couldn't go around it).
Then made it my arm instead of a stick.
Then, I brought the other arm over to make a circle.
Then, I did it standing up.


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## Cecilie1200

saveliberty said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if people jail would work better if you let them out everyday until they changed behavior?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogs are better creatures at heart than humans are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I expect people to act humanely, dogs as animals.  When a dog acts humanely and a human as an animal, that is where we are humbled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think people SHOULD act humanely.  I have too much experience of humans to EXPECT it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh I get disappointed, but optimism is my policy.  May your week ahead be filled with unexpected kind acts.
Click to expand...


The nice thing about expecting the worst of humanity is that all your surprises are pleasant.


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## saveliberty

Cecilie1200 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if people jail would work better if you let them out everyday until they changed behavior?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogs are better creatures at heart than humans are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I expect people to act humanely, dogs as animals.  When a dog acts humanely and a human as an animal, that is where we are humbled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think people SHOULD act humanely.  I have too much experience of humans to EXPECT it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh I get disappointed, but optimism is my policy.  May your week ahead be filled with unexpected kind acts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The nice thing about expecting the worst of humanity is that all your surprises are pleasant.
Click to expand...


You need to follow me around more.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Our Border Collie/Cattle Dog Mix has been in her crate every night since we brought her home at six weeks.  We have a similar crate in both cars and that is how she travels.  She is now 2 yrs + 8 months.

The crate to her is her sanctuary.  Every evening between 9 and 10 she goes to the outside door, waits to go outside and do her business, and then goes directly to her crate.  We don't need to latch it, she sleeps (I guess) from the time she tells us it's her time to pee and sleep, until the morning.

We don't latch the crate in case of a fire, since we allow her to sleep there in our living room.  Our last dog slept outside in the kennel on our side yard, a shelter our current dog uses when we leave her to go away for several hours.  She also has a crate and shelter there too.


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## Toro

We - or should I say "I" - tried crate training my dog when he was a pup.  It was such a racket.  He HATED being in the crate.  He would bark and bark and bark all night.  We had to put him in a far bathroom, close all the doors, and turn fans on so we could sleep at night.  Then, I had to get up in the middle of the night to let him out to go to the washroom.  Every single night, I'd get up between 3am and 4am to let him out.  Of course, he'd want to play and resisted getting back into the cage.  Exhausted, I'd finally get him in, and try to get another hour or two of sleep.

This went on for 3-4 weeks, and he was starting to get used to it.  Then, I went on a business trip for 4 days, and when I got back, he was sleeping on the bed during the night with my wife.

And that was that.


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## saveliberty

Crates may be appropriate for some breeds, but others are meant to run.  Matching your dog to your lifestyle seems best.  In my case, I suggest a cat for obvious reasons.


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## koshergrl

Ok she's doing well with the crate, is much more at home in it and goes in willingly. We will work again on the jumping thing tomorrow....we've been working on waiting in the crate after I open the door, for permission to come out. She's much calmer and no non accidental accidents in my room for a couple of days. She's doing pretty well, no complaints.


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## koshergrl

Toro said:


> We - or should I say "I" - tried crate training my dog when he was a pup.  It was such a racket.  He HATED being in the crate.  He would bark and bark and bark all night.  We had to put him in a far bathroom, close all the doors, and turn fans on so we could sleep at night.  Then, I had to get up in the middle of the night to let him out to go to the washroom.  Every single night, I'd get up between 3am and 4am to let him out.  Of course, he'd want to play and resisted getting back into the cage.  Exhausted, I'd finally get him in, and try to get another hour or two of sleep.
> 
> This went on for 3-4 weeks, and he was starting to get used to it.  Then, I went on a business trip for 4 days, and when I got back, he was sleeping on the bed during the night with my wife.
> 
> And that was that.



Necessity is the mother of invention. I gave up too and had much the same experience as you. But I'm doing it again because I just can't have her pissing all over the carpet the second I step away....and that is what she does. I also have to be able to safely restrain her when little kids or people with dogs visit. She bites kids if they mess with her, and she fights...and causes fights...among other dogs.

She is da devil.

She does sleep with me, but the crate is by my bed. I put her in it when I'm moving around, I feed her treats in it, and we have informal sessions where she is in it with the door open until I let her come out. I praise her a lot for going in,I praise her for being calm and quiet, I don't reward her or let her out when she's excited or barking. And it's working.

She still barks when she's in the crate and I'm elsewhere in the house...but she's getting better.


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## koshergrl

saveliberty said:


> Crates may be appropriate for some breeds, but others are meant to run.  Matching your dog to your lifestyle seems best.  In my case, I suggest a cat for obvious reasons.


I think it's very important to really engage the minds of certain breeds. I know if I spend just twenty minutes doing something specific with her (not just hanging out, or walking outside with her) her whole mien  is a lot less manic for the day.


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## saveliberty

Cleaning up poop or pee is pretty specific.


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## koshergrl

saveliberty said:


> Cleaning up poop or pee is pretty specific.


 If hours and degree of difficulty translated into experience and union classification....I would be  journeyman. If it translated into credit hours I'd have a doctorate.


----------



## koshergrl

Coyote said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well she's doing okay. She still whines and barks if she's in the crate and I'm in the house which is a pain in the ass because the reason I need her crate trained is so that I can put her up when my mother comes to visit with her two antique poodles. I'm not having much luck getting her to be quiet.
> 
> I worked a few minutes with her this morning, trying to teach her to jump through my arms. Not super successful so far, she's soooo stubborn, makes me insane. She jumps all OVER the place until she thinks you might want her to, then she sulls up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try teaching her to jump over a stick first.  I did that with Rue:
> I set up a jump (a pole on two supports like a couple of books - sat next to it, and used a treat to lure him over each way, telling him "hup" - that taught him the cue.
> Then I transitioned to a stick I'm holding in one hand, teaching her to jump over that (he had a little trouble so I made it easier by first positioning the stick against a wall so he couldn't go around it).
> Then made it my arm instead of a stick.
> Then, I brought the other arm over to make a circle.
> Then, I did it standing up.
Click to expand...

I'm doing this tomorrow. I may coach the girl to do it, too.

She's the human equivalent of a PRT. That's why I got mylo in the first place. I needed a dog that could mirror her energy, defend itself....but not be able to kill her (my daughter).


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## koshergrl

Mylos state of being is alert alert alert.


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## Cecilie1200

saveliberty said:


> Crates may be appropriate for some breeds, but others are meant to run.  Matching your dog to your lifestyle seems best.  In my case, I suggest a cat for obvious reasons.



Even high-energy dogs like to have a private, safe space they can sleep in, and can benefit from learning to be comfortable with a crate, for those occasions when one is necessary.  God knows, Malcolm borders on hyper, and he still likes his crate.


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## koshergrl

Mylo is hyper active and my hope is that the crate will help interrupt that manic behavior.


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## koshergrl

Mylo did great over the holiday. My mom came to visit with poodles and we accommodated everybody and Mylo was calm and relaxed about being in the crate.


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## Cecilie1200

koshergrl said:


> Mylo did great over the holiday. My mom came to visit with poodles and we accommodated everybody and Mylo was calm and relaxed about being in the crate.



Glad to hear it.


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## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> Mylo did great over the holiday. My mom came to visit with poodles and we accommodated everybody and Mylo was calm and relaxed about being in the crate.



Awesome!  Great job kg


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## koshergrl

It seriously was a vast improvement over the past. Now guests are gone and things are back to normal, I'm very proud of her. She had Thanksgiving yummies too....


----------

