# Putin aims to Divide and Conquer



## Eloy

Vladimir Putin learned well as he trained to be a KGB agent how to find a weakness in his opponents and exploit it. An example is how he is managing the European Union parts of which rely on Russia for energy, such as Germany. He knows Germany and the Germans well, having been a secret agent in Dresden when Angela Merkel, who speaks fluent Russian, lived in the Deutsche Demokratische Republik (DDR).







Putin in Dresden mid-1980s

In 1989 the wall in Berlin came down and the people in Dresden were feeling that their nationalism was in the ascent. The mob moved on the Ministry for State Security (Stasi) and then headed across the road to the KGB headquarters but before they could enter they were met by Vladimir Putin who told them that his men were armed and had permission to shoot. The small crowd left. Putin was seeing a type of German nationalism which was discouraged in the DDR under the thumb of Moscau. He left Germany and returned to Leningrad which people even there were beginning to call St. Petersburg. Like East Germany, nationalism was on the rise in the imploding Soviet Union. Putin saw first hand what this people power can do and he put his future in it with the contacts he had made with other KGB agents from Dresden. They are all now directors of former Soviet industries, now privatized and whose wealth goes into the pockets of Putin and pals.

Putin hates the European Union (EU) which has imposed hurting sanctions on Russia for invading Ukraine and annexing Crimea. EU member states in the east were under Soviet rule and, like East Germany, they have put their future into a partnership of nations but they are nervous of Russia. The Baltic states have native Russian speakers and Putin might just make a move. Poland and Hungary too throw a glance at Russia and wonder. Putin knows the weakness of the Europeans is their nationalism and he will work on this to pull asunder the EU just as it did in the DDR. The racism which is fundamental to nationalism can be exploited so that individual members who are rejecting the EU in favor of their own sense of identity as distinct from neighbors and better without them. Putin must be overjoyed that Britain is about to leave the EU (Brexit) and what a gift Donald Trump has given him by declaring that Nato is obsolete and he likes Putin.

This will be how the Kremlin will undermine the EU, making individual relationships with European nationalists, picking them off one at a time. This week  Heinz-Christian Strache, Austria's far right leader has signed an alliance with President Putin's United Russia party and has offered to act as a go-between for the Kremlin and Donal Trump. Well, what do you know, the birthplace of Aryan nationalist, Adolf Hitler, Austria's neo-Nazis might just be next to have an exit.





Heinz-Christian Strache leader of Austria's Freedom Party signed a co-operation agreement with Sergei Zheleznyak, United Russia's deputy leader who is subject to travel bans and asset freezes by the EU.


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## Bleipriester

Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.


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## Eloy

Bleipriester said:


> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.


President Assad of Syria would agree with you.


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## Correll

Eloy said:


> Vladimir Putin learned well as he trained to be a KGB agent how to find a weakness in his opponents and exploit it. An example is how he is managing the European Union parts of which rely on Russia for energy, such as Germany. He knows Germany and the Germans well, having been a secret agent in Dresden when Angela Merkel, who speaks fluent Russian, lived in the Deutsche Demokratische Republik (DDR).....




It was painfully obvious that being dependent on the Russians for gas would give them leverage over the Europeans. We pointed that out to them.

That was not Putin being clever, that was the Europeans being stupid.


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## Bleipriester

Eloy said:


> Bleipriester said:
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> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
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> President Assad of Syria would agree with you.
Click to expand...

Everyone agrees. We had good relationship until the US regime and its Europuppets decided to overthrow an democratically elected government in the Ukraine only because it refused to sign the Ukraine–European Union Association Agreement.


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## Eloy

Correll said:


> Eloy said:
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> Vladimir Putin learned well as he trained to be a KGB agent how to find a weakness in his opponents and exploit it. An example is how he is managing the European Union parts of which rely on Russia for energy, such as Germany. He knows Germany and the Germans well, having been a secret agent in Dresden when Angela Merkel, who speaks fluent Russian, lived in the Deutsche Demokratische Republik (DDR).....
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> It was painfully obvious that being dependent on the Russians for gas would give them leverage over the Europeans. We pointed that out to them.
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> That was not Putin being clever, that was the Europeans being stupid.
Click to expand...

Arrangements for Russian energy to be sent thru Ukraine to EU countries did not look bad after the Soviet Union imploded and Boris Yeltsin introduced free press and democracy as well as free markets. Vladimir Putin is a throwback to the old KGB mentality and serious empire-building.


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## Correll

Eloy said:


> Correll said:
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> Eloy said:
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> Vladimir Putin learned well as he trained to be a KGB agent how to find a weakness in his opponents and exploit it. An example is how he is managing the European Union parts of which rely on Russia for energy, such as Germany. He knows Germany and the Germans well, having been a secret agent in Dresden when Angela Merkel, who speaks fluent Russian, lived in the Deutsche Demokratische Republik (DDR).....
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> It was painfully obvious that being dependent on the Russians for gas would give them leverage over the Europeans. We pointed that out to them.
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> That was not Putin being clever, that was the Europeans being stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arrangements for Russian energy to be sent thru Ukraine to EU countries did not look bad after the Soviet Union imploded and Boris Yeltsin introduced free press and democracy as well as free markets. Vladimir Putin is a throwback to the old KGB mentality and serious empire-building.
Click to expand...



Russia was already backsliding when the deals were finalized. Europe walked into this with their eyes wide open.


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## Eloy

Bleipriester said:


> Eloy said:
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> Bleipriester said:
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> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
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> President Assad of Syria would agree with you.
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> Click to expand...
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> Everyone agrees. We had good relationship until the US regime and its Europuppets decided to overthrow an democratically elected government in the Ukraine only because it refused to sign the Ukraine–European Union Association Agreement.
Click to expand...

You are not being accurate. Free Europe out from under the thumb of Moscau was joining the EU and benefiting greatly with outright grants and generous loans from the Eutopean Investment Bank for infrastructure renovation after decades of neglect under communism. The people of Ukraine were moving on application for EU membership and had entered into the Ukraine-European Union Association Agreement treaty which was destined to bring Ukraine closer to Europe. Vladimir Putin did not like the idea of the EU being right up against the Russian border and the then incumbent President of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych refused to sign the treaty, sparking a revolution.


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## Bleipriester

Eloy said:


> Bleipriester said:
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> Eloy said:
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> Bleipriester said:
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> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
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> President Assad of Syria would agree with you.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Everyone agrees. We had good relationship until the US regime and its Europuppets decided to overthrow an democratically elected government in the Ukraine only because it refused to sign the Ukraine–European Union Association Agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are not being accurate. Free Europe out from under the thumb of Moscau was joining the EU and benefiting greatly with outright grants and generous loans from the Eutopean Investment Bank for infrastructure renovation after decades of neglect under communism. The people of Ukraine were moving on application for EU membership and had entered into the Ukraine-European Union Association Agreement treaty which was destined to bring Ukraine closer to Europe. Vladimir Putin did not like the idea of the EU being right up against the Russian border and the then incumbent President of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych refused to sign the treaty, sparking a revolution.
Click to expand...

You are entirely controlled by regime media. Corrupt Nazi Ukraine is chronically broke and mad.

Here are some news for you:

Politics:
Ukraine´s Nazi party in the government.

With terrorist acts, Ukrainian regime cuts off power supply to Crimea

Shatterpated Ukrainian regime puts incompatible US fuel rods into largest European power plant

Ukraine: 730.000 fled to Russia

Ukraine: Regime´s masked Nazi mob storms protest camp, organizer expelled from country

Ukraine's Neo-Nazis Are the Most Dangerous in Europe

Ukraine honors nationalist whose troops killed 50,000 Jews

Top Ukraine official backs idea 'to help ISIS take revenge on Russian soldiers in Syria’


Economy:
PressTV-46 Ukraine banks declared bankrupt


Military:
Jewish Voice

Western Backed Ukainan Army Shelled Chemical Plant For Weeks,releasing Dangerous Chemicals,radiation

Kiev boasts of "organized withdrawal" from Debaltsevo

Ukranie pledges autonomy to rebellious east





"EU extension team East"





Ukraine-ISIS association demonstration


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## Eloy

Bleipriester said:


> Eloy said:
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> Eloy said:
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> Bleipriester said:
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> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
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> President Assad of Syria would agree with you.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Everyone agrees. We had good relationship until the US regime and its Europuppets decided to overthrow an democratically elected government in the Ukraine only because it refused to sign the Ukraine–European Union Association Agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are not being accurate. Free Europe out from under the thumb of Moscau was joining the EU and benefiting greatly with outright grants and generous loans from the Eutopean Investment Bank for infrastructure renovation after decades of neglect under communism. The people of Ukraine were moving on application for EU membership and had entered into the Ukraine-European Union Association Agreement treaty which was destined to bring Ukraine closer to Europe. Vladimir Putin did not like the idea of the EU being right up against the Russian border and the then incumbent President of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych refused to sign the treaty, sparking a revolution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are entirely controlled by regime media. Corrupt Nazi Ukraine is chronically broke and mad.
> 
> Here are some news for you:
> ... ...
Click to expand...

Forgive me but your links are to your own posts. Sorry.


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## Bleipriester

Eloy said:


> Bleipriester said:
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> Eloy said:
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> Bleipriester said:
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> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
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> President Assad of Syria would agree with you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everyone agrees. We had good relationship until the US regime and its Europuppets decided to overthrow an democratically elected government in the Ukraine only because it refused to sign the Ukraine–European Union Association Agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are not being accurate. Free Europe out from under the thumb of Moscau was joining the EU and benefiting greatly with outright grants and generous loans from the Eutopean Investment Bank for infrastructure renovation after decades of neglect under communism. The people of Ukraine were moving on application for EU membership and had entered into the Ukraine-European Union Association Agreement treaty which was destined to bring Ukraine closer to Europe. Vladimir Putin did not like the idea of the EU being right up against the Russian border and the then incumbent President of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych refused to sign the treaty, sparking a revolution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are entirely controlled by regime media. Corrupt Nazi Ukraine is chronically broke and mad.
> 
> Here are some news for you:
> ... ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Forgive me but your links are to your own posts. Sorry.
Click to expand...

Not all of them and it doesn´t matter. If that´s why you can´t accept the truth, I am very sorry for you.


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## ESay

Bleipriester said:


> Eloy said:
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> Eloy said:
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> Bleipriester said:
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> Eloy said:
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> President Assad of Syria would agree with you.
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> Everyone agrees. We had good relationship until the US regime and its Europuppets decided to overthrow an democratically elected government in the Ukraine only because it refused to sign the Ukraine–European Union Association Agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are not being accurate. Free Europe out from under the thumb of Moscau was joining the EU and benefiting greatly with outright grants and generous loans from the Eutopean Investment Bank for infrastructure renovation after decades of neglect under communism. The people of Ukraine were moving on application for EU membership and had entered into the Ukraine-European Union Association Agreement treaty which was destined to bring Ukraine closer to Europe. Vladimir Putin did not like the idea of the EU being right up against the Russian border and the then incumbent President of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych refused to sign the treaty, sparking a revolution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are entirely controlled by regime media. Corrupt Nazi Ukraine is chronically broke and mad.
> 
> Here are some news for you:
> ... ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Forgive me but your links are to your own posts. Sorry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not all of them and it doesn´t matter. If that´s why you can´t accept the truth, I am very sorry for you.
Click to expand...

It depends on what you consider as “truth” in this case.


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## Bleipriester

ESay said:


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> Eloy said:
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> Bleipriester said:
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> Everyone agrees. We had good relationship until the US regime and its Europuppets decided to overthrow an democratically elected government in the Ukraine only because it refused to sign the Ukraine–European Union Association Agreement.
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> 
> You are not being accurate. Free Europe out from under the thumb of Moscau was joining the EU and benefiting greatly with outright grants and generous loans from the Eutopean Investment Bank for infrastructure renovation after decades of neglect under communism. The people of Ukraine were moving on application for EU membership and had entered into the Ukraine-European Union Association Agreement treaty which was destined to bring Ukraine closer to Europe. Vladimir Putin did not like the idea of the EU being right up against the Russian border and the then incumbent President of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych refused to sign the treaty, sparking a revolution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are entirely controlled by regime media. Corrupt Nazi Ukraine is chronically broke and mad.
> 
> Here are some news for you:
> ... ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Forgive me but your links are to your own posts. Sorry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not all of them and it doesn´t matter. If that´s why you can´t accept the truth, I am very sorry for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It depends on what you consider as “truth” in this case.
Click to expand...

Look up the links and you see all is true. You also deny the photos? Photoshop?


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## there4eyeM

Yes, refusal to vigorously develop alternative energy technologies has led to grotesque dependence upon remote resources. But the worst dependence is upon remote ideas and ideologues.


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## sealybobo

Bleipriester said:


> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.


I love how Russia is now a friend again. Reminds me how bush looked into his soul and saw a good man.

What would trump do if Russia invaded Ukraine on his watch?


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## Bleipriester

sealybobo said:


> Bleipriester said:
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> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
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> I love how Russia is now a friend again. Reminds me how bush looked into his soul and saw a good man.
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> What would trump do if Russia invaded Ukraine on his watch?
Click to expand...

Scenario not realistic.


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## Care4all

Bleipriester said:


> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.


got any PROOF of that opinion of yours?  Love to see it....


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## Bleipriester

Care4all said:


> Bleipriester said:
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> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
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> got any PROOF of that opinion of yours?  Love to see it....
Click to expand...

The thread is full of proof.


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## ESay

Bleipriester said:


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> Eloy said:
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> Bleipriester said:
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> Eloy said:
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> You are not being accurate. Free Europe out from under the thumb of Moscau was joining the EU and benefiting greatly with outright grants and generous loans from the Eutopean Investment Bank for infrastructure renovation after decades of neglect under communism. The people of Ukraine were moving on application for EU membership and had entered into the Ukraine-European Union Association Agreement treaty which was destined to bring Ukraine closer to Europe. Vladimir Putin did not like the idea of the EU being right up against the Russian border and the then incumbent President of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych refused to sign the treaty, sparking a revolution.
> 
> 
> 
> You are entirely controlled by regime media. Corrupt Nazi Ukraine is chronically broke and mad.
> 
> Here are some news for you:
> ... ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Forgive me but your links are to your own posts. Sorry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not all of them and it doesn´t matter. If that´s why you can´t accept the truth, I am very sorry for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It depends on what you consider as “truth” in this case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look up the links and you see all is true. You also deny the photos? Photoshop?
Click to expand...

No, I don’t say that this is photoshop. Actually, all that has been discussed here numerous times. And these discussions became tiresome long ago.


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## sealybobo

Bleipriester said:


> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.


So let me get this straight. You're OK with Russia invading Ukraine?


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## Bleipriester

ESay said:


> Bleipriester said:
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> Eloy said:
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> Bleipriester said:
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> You are entirely controlled by regime media. Corrupt Nazi Ukraine is chronically broke and mad.
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> Here are some news for you:
> ... ...
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> Forgive me but your links are to your own posts. Sorry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not all of them and it doesn´t matter. If that´s why you can´t accept the truth, I am very sorry for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It depends on what you consider as “truth” in this case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look up the links and you see all is true. You also deny the photos? Photoshop?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t say that this is photoshop. Actually, all that has been discussed here numerous times. And these discussions became tiresome long ago.
Click to expand...

Discussed often, right. Still, all the people claim Russia is the aggressor.


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## Bleipriester

sealybobo said:


> Bleipriester said:
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> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
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> So let me get this straight. You're OK with Russia invading Ukraine?
Click to expand...

Oh yes, If Russia liberates Ukraine, that´s OK for me. But Russia already responded and liberated the Crimea.


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## sealybobo

Bleipriester said:


> sealybobo said:
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> Bleipriester said:
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> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
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> So let me get this straight. You're OK with Russia invading Ukraine?
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> Click to expand...
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> Oh yes, If Russia liberates Ukraine, that´s OK for me. But Russia already responded and liberated the Crimea.
Click to expand...

Like we liberated iraq


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## ESay

Bleipriester said:


> sealybobo said:
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> Bleipriester said:
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> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
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> So let me get this straight. You're OK with Russia invading Ukraine?
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> Click to expand...
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> Oh yes, If Russia liberates Ukraine, that´s OK for me. But Russia already responded and liberated the Crimea.
Click to expand...

Liberates from whom? What you don’t understand is that too many people in Ukraine don’t want this “liberation”.


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## Bleipriester

sealybobo said:


> Bleipriester said:
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> Bleipriester said:
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> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
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> So let me get this straight. You're OK with Russia invading Ukraine?
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> Click to expand...
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> Oh yes, If Russia liberates Ukraine, that´s OK for me. But Russia already responded and liberated the Crimea.
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> Click to expand...
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> Like we liberated iraq
Click to expand...

No, it was a peaceful process cheered by the citizens of the Crimea.


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## sealybobo

ESay said:


> Bleipriester said:
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> Bleipriester said:
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> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
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> So let me get this straight. You're OK with Russia invading Ukraine?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yes, If Russia liberates Ukraine, that´s OK for me. But Russia already responded and liberated the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Liberates from whom? What you don’t understand is that too many people in Ukraine don’t want this “liberation”.
Click to expand...

Isn't right wing spin great? Only 4 more years


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## Bleipriester

ESay said:


> Bleipriester said:
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> Bleipriester said:
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> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
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> So let me get this straight. You're OK with Russia invading Ukraine?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yes, If Russia liberates Ukraine, that´s OK for me. But Russia already responded and liberated the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Liberates from whom? What you don’t understand is that too many people in Ukraine don’t want this “liberation”.
Click to expand...

Ukraine has no voice as all parties are Nato puppets and all MPs hand-selected by the US.

Blue: Party of Regions (2012 elections), now banned under Nato puppet regime:


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## sealybobo

Bleipriester said:


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> Bleipriester said:
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> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
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> So let me get this straight. You're OK with Russia invading Ukraine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yes, If Russia liberates Ukraine, that´s OK for me. But Russia already responded and liberated the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like we liberated iraq
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> Click to expand...
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> No, it was a peaceful process cheered by the citizens of the Crimea.
Click to expand...

Yes just like I'm sure the Shiites cheered when we hung Saddam.

Boy this is a new one to me. So now Russia is the good guys and isreal land grabbers are good. I'm beginning to see what the next few years are going to look like. So dishonest.


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## sealybobo

Russia will be our friends if we just let them invade other soverign nations and if we vote Republican.

I can't wait to see how the next 4 years play out. Im not a soldier what do I care? I hope there's no draft for my nephews when they hit 18


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## Bleipriester

sealybobo said:


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> Bleipriester said:
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> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
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> So let me get this straight. You're OK with Russia invading Ukraine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yes, If Russia liberates Ukraine, that´s OK for me. But Russia already responded and liberated the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like we liberated iraq
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it was a peaceful process cheered by the citizens of the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes just like I'm sure the Shiites cheered when we hung Saddam.
> 
> Boy this is a new one to me. So now Russia is the good guys and isreal land grabbers are good. I'm beginning to see what the next few years are going to look like. So dishonest.
Click to expand...

Please show my posts where I said Israel´s land grabbing is good.


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## Bleipriester

sealybobo said:


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> Bleipriester said:
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> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
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> 
> So let me get this straight. You're OK with Russia invading Ukraine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yes, If Russia liberates Ukraine, that´s OK for me. But Russia already responded and liberated the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like we liberated iraq
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it was a peaceful process cheered by the citizens of the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes just like I'm sure the Shiites cheered when we hung Saddam.
> 
> Boy this is a new one to me. So now Russia is the good guys and isreal land grabbers are good. I'm beginning to see what the next few years are going to look like. So dishonest.
Click to expand...

Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation - Wikipedia


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## sealybobo

Bleipriester said:


> sealybobo said:
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> sealybobo said:
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> So let me get this straight. You're OK with Russia invading Ukraine?
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> 
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> Oh yes, If Russia liberates Ukraine, that´s OK for me. But Russia already responded and liberated the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like we liberated iraq
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it was a peaceful process cheered by the citizens of the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes just like I'm sure the Shiites cheered when we hung Saddam.
> 
> Boy this is a new one to me. So now Russia is the good guys and isreal land grabbers are good. I'm beginning to see what the next few years are going to look like. So dishonest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please show my posts where I said Israel´s land grabbing is good.
Click to expand...

Not you, the right. I'm seeing them defending Israel on the latest land grab thingand today I'm learning we are cool with Russia.

I admit we have no right to say anything after bush invaded Iraq but that's why Obama just santioned Russia. And not even 100% sanctions. Just on things like oil and weapons and stuff like that.

Of course Russia didn't want hillary but what does that say about trump the next time Russia invades another former USSR country? Looks like they're putting the old team back together


----------



## ESay

Bleipriester said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
> 
> 
> 
> So let me get this straight. You're OK with Russia invading Ukraine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yes, If Russia liberates Ukraine, that´s OK for me. But Russia already responded and liberated the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Liberates from whom? What you don’t understand is that too many people in Ukraine don’t want this “liberation”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ukraine has no voice as all parties are Nato puppets and all MPs hand-selected by the US.
> 
> Blue: Party of Regions (2012 elections), now banned under Nato puppet regime:
Click to expand...

Your map shows the results of so-called “одномандатный округ”. The Party of Regions got 30% of the votes in that election.


But I don’t understand how it disavows what I said in my previous post.


----------



## Bleipriester

sealybobo said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yes, If Russia liberates Ukraine, that´s OK for me. But Russia already responded and liberated the Crimea.
> 
> 
> 
> Like we liberated iraq
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it was a peaceful process cheered by the citizens of the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes just like I'm sure the Shiites cheered when we hung Saddam.
> 
> Boy this is a new one to me. So now Russia is the good guys and isreal land grabbers are good. I'm beginning to see what the next few years are going to look like. So dishonest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please show my posts where I said Israel´s land grabbing is good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not you, the right. I'm seeing them defending Israel on the latest land grab thingand today I'm learning we are cool with Russia.
> 
> I admit we have no right to say anything after bush invaded Iraq but that's why Obama just santioned Russia. And not even 100% sanctions. Just on things like oil and weapons and stuff like that.
> 
> Of course Russia didn't want hillary but what does that say about trump the next time Russia invades another former USSR country? Looks like they're putting the old team back together
Click to expand...

That´s a very derogatory description of what will hopefully come with Trump: The end of the new iron curtain.


----------



## Bleipriester

ESay said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
> 
> 
> 
> So let me get this straight. You're OK with Russia invading Ukraine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yes, If Russia liberates Ukraine, that´s OK for me. But Russia already responded and liberated the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Liberates from whom? What you don’t understand is that too many people in Ukraine don’t want this “liberation”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ukraine has no voice as all parties are Nato puppets and all MPs hand-selected by the US.
> 
> Blue: Party of Regions (2012 elections), now banned under Nato puppet regime:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your map shows the results of so-called “одномандатный округ”. The Party of Regions got 30% of the votes in that election.
> 
> 
> But I don’t understand how it disavows what I said in my previous post.
Click to expand...

The violent overthrow was carried out by a small nazi minority, supported by the West and its puppet media.

Ukrainian parliamentary election, 2012 - Wikipedia


----------



## sealybobo

Bleipriester said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like we liberated iraq
> 
> 
> 
> No, it was a peaceful process cheered by the citizens of the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes just like I'm sure the Shiites cheered when we hung Saddam.
> 
> Boy this is a new one to me. So now Russia is the good guys and isreal land grabbers are good. I'm beginning to see what the next few years are going to look like. So dishonest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please show my posts where I said Israel´s land grabbing is good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not you, the right. I'm seeing them defending Israel on the latest land grab thingand today I'm learning we are cool with Russia.
> 
> I admit we have no right to say anything after bush invaded Iraq but that's why Obama just santioned Russia. And not even 100% sanctions. Just on things like oil and weapons and stuff like that.
> 
> Of course Russia didn't want hillary but what does that say about trump the next time Russia invades another former USSR country? Looks like they're putting the old team back together
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That´s a very derogatory description of what will hopefully come with Trump: The end of the new iron curtain.
Click to expand...

The end or beginning? Russia is such a sess pool of corruption. I just hope Exxon is exploiting Russia for its oil.


----------



## ESay

Bleipriester said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> So let me get this straight. You're OK with Russia invading Ukraine?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yes, If Russia liberates Ukraine, that´s OK for me. But Russia already responded and liberated the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Liberates from whom? What you don’t understand is that too many people in Ukraine don’t want this “liberation”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ukraine has no voice as all parties are Nato puppets and all MPs hand-selected by the US.
> 
> Blue: Party of Regions (2012 elections), now banned under Nato puppet regime:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your map shows the results of so-called “одномандатный округ”. The Party of Regions got 30% of the votes in that election.
> 
> 
> But I don’t understand how it disavows what I said in my previous post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The violent overthrow was carried out by a small nazi minority, supported by the West and its puppet media.
> 
> Ukrainian parliamentary election, 2012 - Wikipedia
Click to expand...

Yes, the overthrow was carried out by ultra-nationalist groups. The vast number of the Ukrainians supported this overthrow and don’t want a union with Russia.


Your link says what I said before – the Party of Regions got 30% of votes (look at numbers under Azarov’s photography). How the elections to Verkhovna Rada are organized (what is the difference between “одномандатные округа” and “многомандатный округ”) I can explain you in Russian if you wish (you can then use Google translate) because I am lazy to write this in English.


----------



## Desperado

Divide and conquer is more the Obama SOP not Putin's


----------



## sealybobo

Desperado said:


> Divide and conquer is more the Obama sop not Putin's/


Yes Putin is a good man who would never do anything underhanded


----------



## there4eyeM

R.F. conflicts with its neighbors often seems to be another case of bad guys vs guys who aren't good. Just as often, it is difficult to tell which is which.


----------



## Bleipriester

sealybobo said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, it was a peaceful process cheered by the citizens of the Crimea.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes just like I'm sure the Shiites cheered when we hung Saddam.
> 
> Boy this is a new one to me. So now Russia is the good guys and isreal land grabbers are good. I'm beginning to see what the next few years are going to look like. So dishonest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please show my posts where I said Israel´s land grabbing is good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not you, the right. I'm seeing them defending Israel on the latest land grab thingand today I'm learning we are cool with Russia.
> 
> I admit we have no right to say anything after bush invaded Iraq but that's why Obama just santioned Russia. And not even 100% sanctions. Just on things like oil and weapons and stuff like that.
> 
> Of course Russia didn't want hillary but what does that say about trump the next time Russia invades another former USSR country? Looks like they're putting the old team back together
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That´s a very derogatory description of what will hopefully come with Trump: The end of the new iron curtain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The end or beginning? Russia is such a sess pool of corruption. I just hope Exxon is exploiting Russia for its oil.
Click to expand...

You will see that when Trump will start good relationships with Russia, the Europuppets will follow. Did you know that France was about to sell a helicopter carrier to Russia just before it became "evil Russia"?


----------



## Bleipriester

ESay said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yes, If Russia liberates Ukraine, that´s OK for me. But Russia already responded and liberated the Crimea.
> 
> 
> 
> Liberates from whom? What you don’t understand is that too many people in Ukraine don’t want this “liberation”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ukraine has no voice as all parties are Nato puppets and all MPs hand-selected by the US.
> 
> Blue: Party of Regions (2012 elections), now banned under Nato puppet regime:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your map shows the results of so-called “одномандатный округ”. The Party of Regions got 30% of the votes in that election.
> 
> 
> But I don’t understand how it disavows what I said in my previous post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The violent overthrow was carried out by a small nazi minority, supported by the West and its puppet media.
> 
> Ukrainian parliamentary election, 2012 - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, the overthrow was carried out by ultra-nationalist groups. The vast number of the Ukrainians supported this overthrow and don’t want a union with Russia.
> 
> 
> Your link says what I said before – the Party of Regions got 30% of votes (look at numbers under Azarov’s photography). How the elections to Verkhovna Rada are organized (what is the difference between “одномандатные округа” and “многомандатный округ”) I can explain you in Russian if you wish (you can then use Google translate) because I am lazy to write this in English.
Click to expand...

Yeah, sure... And why do you lie about the elections result again?

Of course, everyone likes nazis with spiked maces and wants them to govern. Sure....











Ukraine´s Nazi party in the government.


----------



## Sbiker

ESay said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
> 
> 
> 
> So let me get this straight. You're OK with Russia invading Ukraine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yes, If Russia liberates Ukraine, that´s OK for me. But Russia already responded and liberated the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Liberates from whom? What you don’t understand is that too many people in Ukraine don’t want this “liberation”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ukraine has no voice as all parties are Nato puppets and all MPs hand-selected by the US.
> 
> Blue: Party of Regions (2012 elections), now banned under Nato puppet regime:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your map shows the results of so-called “одномандатный округ”. The Party of Regions got 30% of the votes in that election.
> 
> But I don’t understand how it disavows what I said in my previous post.
Click to expand...


According with people density... 30%... "The main thing is not how people voting, but how we counting..." (c) YouKnowWho


----------



## Sbiker

ESay said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
> 
> 
> 
> So let me get this straight. You're OK with Russia invading Ukraine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yes, If Russia liberates Ukraine, that´s OK for me. But Russia already responded and liberated the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Liberates from whom? What you don’t understand is that too many people in Ukraine don’t want this “liberation”.
Click to expand...


Keep calm, Russia still don't want to liberate anyone - now it's your internal European deals... Mua-ha-ha


----------



## sealybobo

Bleipriester said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes just like I'm sure the Shiites cheered when we hung Saddam.
> 
> Boy this is a new one to me. So now Russia is the good guys and isreal land grabbers are good. I'm beginning to see what the next few years are going to look like. So dishonest.
> 
> 
> 
> Please show my posts where I said Israel´s land grabbing is good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not you, the right. I'm seeing them defending Israel on the latest land grab thingand today I'm learning we are cool with Russia.
> 
> I admit we have no right to say anything after bush invaded Iraq but that's why Obama just santioned Russia. And not even 100% sanctions. Just on things like oil and weapons and stuff like that.
> 
> Of course Russia didn't want hillary but what does that say about trump the next time Russia invades another former USSR country? Looks like they're putting the old team back together
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That´s a very derogatory description of what will hopefully come with Trump: The end of the new iron curtain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The end or beginning? Russia is such a sess pool of corruption. I just hope Exxon is exploiting Russia for its oil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You will see that when Trump will start good relationships with Russia, the Europuppets will follow. Did you know that France was about to sell a helicopter carrier to Russia just before it became "evil Russia"?
Click to expand...

France was doing business with Iraq before we invaded too. So?

Its funny you guys are now honestly trying to suggest Russia is the good guy and our friends. I didn't hear the GOP cry when Obama put sanctions on Russia back when Russia was invading. We all knew what they were doing was wrong but what could we say after Iraq?

So now you want to make nice with Hitler after he invaded Poland? Hope he's done land grabbing? 

What if putin decides to " liberate" another soverign nation? What will you do then?

Putin is going to test this


----------



## Correll

sealybobo said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please show my posts where I said Israel´s land grabbing is good.
> 
> 
> 
> Not you, the right. I'm seeing them defending Israel on the latest land grab thingand today I'm learning we are cool with Russia.
> 
> I admit we have no right to say anything after bush invaded Iraq but that's why Obama just santioned Russia. And not even 100% sanctions. Just on things like oil and weapons and stuff like that.
> 
> Of course Russia didn't want hillary but what does that say about trump the next time Russia invades another former USSR country? Looks like they're putting the old team back together
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That´s a very derogatory description of what will hopefully come with Trump: The end of the new iron curtain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The end or beginning? Russia is such a sess pool of corruption. I just hope Exxon is exploiting Russia for its oil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You will see that when Trump will start good relationships with Russia, the Europuppets will follow. Did you know that France was about to sell a helicopter carrier to Russia just before it became "evil Russia"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> France was doing business with Iraq before we invaded too. So?
> 
> Its funny you guys are now honestly trying to suggest Russia is the good guy and our friends. I didn't hear the GOP cry when Obama put sanctions on Russia back when Russia was invading. We all knew what they were doing was wrong but what could we say after Iraq?
> 
> So now you want to make nice with Hitler after he invaded Poland? Hope he's done land grabbing?
> 
> What if putin decides to " liberate" another soverign nation? What will you do then?
> 
> Putin is going to test this
Click to expand...



The Cold War is over. Trump knows that, and Putin knows that Trump knows that.

We have two grown ups here that both know that they do not want needless conflict.

Peace is very likely.

Not every authoritarian strongman is a Hitler.


----------



## sealybobo

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not you, the right. I'm seeing them defending Israel on the latest land grab thingand today I'm learning we are cool with Russia.
> 
> I admit we have no right to say anything after bush invaded Iraq but that's why Obama just santioned Russia. And not even 100% sanctions. Just on things like oil and weapons and stuff like that.
> 
> Of course Russia didn't want hillary but what does that say about trump the next time Russia invades another former USSR country? Looks like they're putting the old team back together
> 
> 
> 
> That´s a very derogatory description of what will hopefully come with Trump: The end of the new iron curtain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The end or beginning? Russia is such a sess pool of corruption. I just hope Exxon is exploiting Russia for its oil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You will see that when Trump will start good relationships with Russia, the Europuppets will follow. Did you know that France was about to sell a helicopter carrier to Russia just before it became "evil Russia"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> France was doing business with Iraq before we invaded too. So?
> 
> Its funny you guys are now honestly trying to suggest Russia is the good guy and our friends. I didn't hear the GOP cry when Obama put sanctions on Russia back when Russia was invading. We all knew what they were doing was wrong but what could we say after Iraq?
> 
> So now you want to make nice with Hitler after he invaded Poland? Hope he's done land grabbing?
> 
> What if putin decides to " liberate" another soverign nation? What will you do then?
> 
> Putin is going to test this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Cold War is over. Trump knows that, and Putin knows that Trump knows that.
> 
> We have two grown ups here that both know that they do not want needless conflict.
> 
> Peace is very likely.
> 
> Not every authoritarian strongman is a Hitler.
Click to expand...

Putin is pretty evil. Remember he gave that one guy radioactive cancer because the guy challenged him? Of course you Wont believe it about your buddy putin


----------



## sealybobo

Republicans would vote for Putin before hillary


----------



## Correll

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> That´s a very derogatory description of what will hopefully come with Trump: The end of the new iron curtain.
> 
> 
> 
> The end or beginning? Russia is such a sess pool of corruption. I just hope Exxon is exploiting Russia for its oil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You will see that when Trump will start good relationships with Russia, the Europuppets will follow. Did you know that France was about to sell a helicopter carrier to Russia just before it became "evil Russia"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> France was doing business with Iraq before we invaded too. So?
> 
> Its funny you guys are now honestly trying to suggest Russia is the good guy and our friends. I didn't hear the GOP cry when Obama put sanctions on Russia back when Russia was invading. We all knew what they were doing was wrong but what could we say after Iraq?
> 
> So now you want to make nice with Hitler after he invaded Poland? Hope he's done land grabbing?
> 
> What if putin decides to " liberate" another soverign nation? What will you do then?
> 
> Putin is going to test this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Cold War is over. Trump knows that, and Putin knows that Trump knows that.
> 
> We have two grown ups here that both know that they do not want needless conflict.
> 
> Peace is very likely.
> 
> Not every authoritarian strongman is a Hitler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin is pretty evil. Remember he gave that one guy radioactive cancer because the guy challenged him? Of course you Wont believe it about your buddy putin
Click to expand...




Doesn't make him a threat to the world balance of power.

Hell, the Castro regime is worse than that, and you guys want to make lovey dovey with them.


----------



## sealybobo

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The end or beginning? Russia is such a sess pool of corruption. I just hope Exxon is exploiting Russia for its oil.
> 
> 
> 
> You will see that when Trump will start good relationships with Russia, the Europuppets will follow. Did you know that France was about to sell a helicopter carrier to Russia just before it became "evil Russia"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> France was doing business with Iraq before we invaded too. So?
> 
> Its funny you guys are now honestly trying to suggest Russia is the good guy and our friends. I didn't hear the GOP cry when Obama put sanctions on Russia back when Russia was invading. We all knew what they were doing was wrong but what could we say after Iraq?
> 
> So now you want to make nice with Hitler after he invaded Poland? Hope he's done land grabbing?
> 
> What if putin decides to " liberate" another soverign nation? What will you do then?
> 
> Putin is going to test this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Cold War is over. Trump knows that, and Putin knows that Trump knows that.
> 
> We have two grown ups here that both know that they do not want needless conflict.
> 
> Peace is very likely.
> 
> Not every authoritarian strongman is a Hitler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin is pretty evil. Remember he gave that one guy radioactive cancer because the guy challenged him? Of course you Wont believe it about your buddy putin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't make him a threat to the world balance of power.
> 
> Hell, the Castro regime is worse than that, and you guys want to make lovey dovey with them.
Click to expand...

Did Cuba invade another country?


----------



## Correll

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> You will see that when Trump will start good relationships with Russia, the Europuppets will follow. Did you know that France was about to sell a helicopter carrier to Russia just before it became "evil Russia"?
> 
> 
> 
> France was doing business with Iraq before we invaded too. So?
> 
> Its funny you guys are now honestly trying to suggest Russia is the good guy and our friends. I didn't hear the GOP cry when Obama put sanctions on Russia back when Russia was invading. We all knew what they were doing was wrong but what could we say after Iraq?
> 
> So now you want to make nice with Hitler after he invaded Poland? Hope he's done land grabbing?
> 
> What if putin decides to " liberate" another soverign nation? What will you do then?
> 
> Putin is going to test this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Cold War is over. Trump knows that, and Putin knows that Trump knows that.
> 
> We have two grown ups here that both know that they do not want needless conflict.
> 
> Peace is very likely.
> 
> Not every authoritarian strongman is a Hitler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin is pretty evil. Remember he gave that one guy radioactive cancer because the guy challenged him? Of course you Wont believe it about your buddy putin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't make him a threat to the world balance of power.
> 
> Hell, the Castro regime is worse than that, and you guys want to make lovey dovey with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did Cuba invade another country?
Click to expand...



I was responding to your post on how evil Putin was because he had a critic killed. The Castro regime has done far worse, and yet you guys want peaceful relations.


----------



## GHook93

sealybobo said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
> 
> 
> 
> So let me get this straight. You're OK with Russia invading Ukraine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yes, If Russia liberates Ukraine, that´s OK for me. But Russia already responded and liberated the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like we liberated iraq
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it was a peaceful process cheered by the citizens of the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes just like I'm sure the Shiites cheered when we hung Saddam.
> 
> Boy this is a new one to me. So now Russia is the good guys and isreal land grabbers are good. I'm beginning to see what the next few years are going to look like. So dishonest.
Click to expand...


First off learn how the spell Israel. Second if you want to derail this thread with you utter ignorance and red herring I would be happy to do it. You have now brought up 4 unique situation (Syria, Iraq and now Israel) that are entirely different from the Russia-Crimea situation.




Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


----------



## Bleipriester

sealybobo said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please show my posts where I said Israel´s land grabbing is good.
> 
> 
> 
> Not you, the right. I'm seeing them defending Israel on the latest land grab thingand today I'm learning we are cool with Russia.
> 
> I admit we have no right to say anything after bush invaded Iraq but that's why Obama just santioned Russia. And not even 100% sanctions. Just on things like oil and weapons and stuff like that.
> 
> Of course Russia didn't want hillary but what does that say about trump the next time Russia invades another former USSR country? Looks like they're putting the old team back together
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That´s a very derogatory description of what will hopefully come with Trump: The end of the new iron curtain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The end or beginning? Russia is such a sess pool of corruption. I just hope Exxon is exploiting Russia for its oil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You will see that when Trump will start good relationships with Russia, the Europuppets will follow. Did you know that France was about to sell a helicopter carrier to Russia just before it became "evil Russia"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> France was doing business with Iraq before we invaded too. So?
> 
> Its funny you guys are now honestly trying to suggest Russia is the good guy and our friends. I didn't hear the GOP cry when Obama put sanctions on Russia back when Russia was invading. We all knew what they were doing was wrong but what could we say after Iraq?
> 
> So now you want to make nice with Hitler after he invaded Poland? Hope he's done land grabbing?
> 
> What if putin decides to " liberate" another soverign nation? What will you do then?
> 
> Putin is going to test this
Click to expand...

Russia invaded? Where? The moon? What news do you consume?


----------



## Bleipriester

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The end or beginning? Russia is such a sess pool of corruption. I just hope Exxon is exploiting Russia for its oil.
> 
> 
> 
> You will see that when Trump will start good relationships with Russia, the Europuppets will follow. Did you know that France was about to sell a helicopter carrier to Russia just before it became "evil Russia"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> France was doing business with Iraq before we invaded too. So?
> 
> Its funny you guys are now honestly trying to suggest Russia is the good guy and our friends. I didn't hear the GOP cry when Obama put sanctions on Russia back when Russia was invading. We all knew what they were doing was wrong but what could we say after Iraq?
> 
> So now you want to make nice with Hitler after he invaded Poland? Hope he's done land grabbing?
> 
> What if putin decides to " liberate" another soverign nation? What will you do then?
> 
> Putin is going to test this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Cold War is over. Trump knows that, and Putin knows that Trump knows that.
> 
> We have two grown ups here that both know that they do not want needless conflict.
> 
> Peace is very likely.
> 
> Not every authoritarian strongman is a Hitler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin is pretty evil. Remember he gave that one guy radioactive cancer because the guy challenged him? Of course you Wont believe it about your buddy putin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't make him a threat to the world balance of power.
> 
> Hell, the Castro regime is worse than that, and you guys want to make lovey dovey with them.
Click to expand...

It is propaganda by the way. Who knows who´s behind the killings that they blame on Putin.


----------



## sealybobo

Bleipriester said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> You will see that when Trump will start good relationships with Russia, the Europuppets will follow. Did you know that France was about to sell a helicopter carrier to Russia just before it became "evil Russia"?
> 
> 
> 
> France was doing business with Iraq before we invaded too. So?
> 
> Its funny you guys are now honestly trying to suggest Russia is the good guy and our friends. I didn't hear the GOP cry when Obama put sanctions on Russia back when Russia was invading. We all knew what they were doing was wrong but what could we say after Iraq?
> 
> So now you want to make nice with Hitler after he invaded Poland? Hope he's done land grabbing?
> 
> What if putin decides to " liberate" another soverign nation? What will you do then?
> 
> Putin is going to test this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Cold War is over. Trump knows that, and Putin knows that Trump knows that.
> 
> We have two grown ups here that both know that they do not want needless conflict.
> 
> Peace is very likely.
> 
> Not every authoritarian strongman is a Hitler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin is pretty evil. Remember he gave that one guy radioactive cancer because the guy challenged him? Of course you Wont believe it about your buddy putin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't make him a threat to the world balance of power.
> 
> Hell, the Castro regime is worse than that, and you guys want to make lovey dovey with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is propaganda by the way. Who knows who´s behind the killings that they blame on Putin.
Click to expand...

And you are all too ready to give Putin the benefit of the doubt.

Are you a trump cheerleader like Carroll?


----------



## sealybobo

Bleipriester said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> You will see that when Trump will start good relationships with Russia, the Europuppets will follow. Did you know that France was about to sell a helicopter carrier to Russia just before it became "evil Russia"?
> 
> 
> 
> France was doing business with Iraq before we invaded too. So?
> 
> Its funny you guys are now honestly trying to suggest Russia is the good guy and our friends. I didn't hear the GOP cry when Obama put sanctions on Russia back when Russia was invading. We all knew what they were doing was wrong but what could we say after Iraq?
> 
> So now you want to make nice with Hitler after he invaded Poland? Hope he's done land grabbing?
> 
> What if putin decides to " liberate" another soverign nation? What will you do then?
> 
> Putin is going to test this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Cold War is over. Trump knows that, and Putin knows that Trump knows that.
> 
> We have two grown ups here that both know that they do not want needless conflict.
> 
> Peace is very likely.
> 
> Not every authoritarian strongman is a Hitler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin is pretty evil. Remember he gave that one guy radioactive cancer because the guy challenged him? Of course you Wont believe it about your buddy putin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't make him a threat to the world balance of power.
> 
> Hell, the Castro regime is worse than that, and you guys want to make lovey dovey with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is propaganda by the way. Who knows who´s behind the killings that they blame on Putin.
Click to expand...

When I read your comment I read it with a thick Russian accent.


----------



## Bleipriester

sealybobo said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> France was doing business with Iraq before we invaded too. So?
> 
> Its funny you guys are now honestly trying to suggest Russia is the good guy and our friends. I didn't hear the GOP cry when Obama put sanctions on Russia back when Russia was invading. We all knew what they were doing was wrong but what could we say after Iraq?
> 
> So now you want to make nice with Hitler after he invaded Poland? Hope he's done land grabbing?
> 
> What if putin decides to " liberate" another soverign nation? What will you do then?
> 
> Putin is going to test this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Cold War is over. Trump knows that, and Putin knows that Trump knows that.
> 
> We have two grown ups here that both know that they do not want needless conflict.
> 
> Peace is very likely.
> 
> Not every authoritarian strongman is a Hitler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin is pretty evil. Remember he gave that one guy radioactive cancer because the guy challenged him? Of course you Wont believe it about your buddy putin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't make him a threat to the world balance of power.
> 
> Hell, the Castro regime is worse than that, and you guys want to make lovey dovey with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is propaganda by the way. Who knows who´s behind the killings that they blame on Putin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When I read your comment I read it with a thick Russian accent.
Click to expand...

You are a propaganda drone that thinks if it posts enough bullshit, the truths already posted will vanish.

Politics:
Ukraine´s Nazi party in the government.

With terrorist acts, Ukrainian regime cuts off power supply to Crimea

Shatterpated Ukrainian regime puts incompatible US fuel rods into largest European power plant

Ukraine: 730.000 fled to Russia

Ukraine: Regime´s masked Nazi mob storms protest camp, organizer expelled from country

Ukraine's Neo-Nazis Are the Most Dangerous in Europe

Ukraine honors nationalist whose troops killed 50,000 Jews

Top Ukraine official backs idea 'to help ISIS take revenge on Russian soldiers in Syria’


Economy:
PressTV-46 Ukraine banks declared bankrupt


Military:
Jewish Voice

Western Backed Ukainan Army Shelled Chemical Plant For Weeks,releasing Dangerous Chemicals,radiation

Kiev boasts of "organized withdrawal" from Debaltsevo

Ukranie pledges autonomy to rebellious east






"EU extension team East"





Ukraine-ISIS association demonstration


----------



## sealybobo

Bleipriester said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> You will see that when Trump will start good relationships with Russia, the Europuppets will follow. Did you know that France was about to sell a helicopter carrier to Russia just before it became "evil Russia"?
> 
> 
> 
> France was doing business with Iraq before we invaded too. So?
> 
> Its funny you guys are now honestly trying to suggest Russia is the good guy and our friends. I didn't hear the GOP cry when Obama put sanctions on Russia back when Russia was invading. We all knew what they were doing was wrong but what could we say after Iraq?
> 
> So now you want to make nice with Hitler after he invaded Poland? Hope he's done land grabbing?
> 
> What if putin decides to " liberate" another soverign nation? What will you do then?
> 
> Putin is going to test this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Cold War is over. Trump knows that, and Putin knows that Trump knows that.
> 
> We have two grown ups here that both know that they do not want needless conflict.
> 
> Peace is very likely.
> 
> Not every authoritarian strongman is a Hitler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin is pretty evil. Remember he gave that one guy radioactive cancer because the guy challenged him? Of course you Wont believe it about your buddy putin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't make him a threat to the world balance of power.
> 
> Hell, the Castro regime is worse than that, and you guys want to make lovey dovey with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is propaganda by the way. Who knows who´s behind the killings that they blame on Putin.
Click to expand...

If you looked into Putin's history you'd see a very evil kgb murderer but you won't believe it because you clearly have taken the Republican position of defending him.

You can't even be honest you're such a political hack.

If you would just be honest and say trump keeps his friends close and his enemies closer I'd have an ounce of respect for your political opinion.


----------



## Bleipriester

sealybobo said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> France was doing business with Iraq before we invaded too. So?
> 
> Its funny you guys are now honestly trying to suggest Russia is the good guy and our friends. I didn't hear the GOP cry when Obama put sanctions on Russia back when Russia was invading. We all knew what they were doing was wrong but what could we say after Iraq?
> 
> So now you want to make nice with Hitler after he invaded Poland? Hope he's done land grabbing?
> 
> What if putin decides to " liberate" another soverign nation? What will you do then?
> 
> Putin is going to test this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Cold War is over. Trump knows that, and Putin knows that Trump knows that.
> 
> We have two grown ups here that both know that they do not want needless conflict.
> 
> Peace is very likely.
> 
> Not every authoritarian strongman is a Hitler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin is pretty evil. Remember he gave that one guy radioactive cancer because the guy challenged him? Of course you Wont believe it about your buddy putin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't make him a threat to the world balance of power.
> 
> Hell, the Castro regime is worse than that, and you guys want to make lovey dovey with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is propaganda by the way. Who knows who´s behind the killings that they blame on Putin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you looked into Putin's history you'd see a very evil kgb murderer but you won't believe it because you clearly have taken the Republican position of defending him.
> 
> You can't even be honest you're such a political hack.
> 
> If you would just be honest and say trump keeps his friends close and his enemies closer I'd have an ounce of respect for your political opinion.
Click to expand...

I wouldn´t even wipe my ass with your respect.


----------



## Sbiker

sealybobo said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please show my posts where I said Israel´s land grabbing is good.
> 
> 
> 
> Not you, the right. I'm seeing them defending Israel on the latest land grab thingand today I'm learning we are cool with Russia.
> 
> I admit we have no right to say anything after bush invaded Iraq but that's why Obama just santioned Russia. And not even 100% sanctions. Just on things like oil and weapons and stuff like that.
> 
> Of course Russia didn't want hillary but what does that say about trump the next time Russia invades another former USSR country? Looks like they're putting the old team back together
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That´s a very derogatory description of what will hopefully come with Trump: The end of the new iron curtain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The end or beginning? Russia is such a sess pool of corruption. I just hope Exxon is exploiting Russia for its oil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You will see that when Trump will start good relationships with Russia, the Europuppets will follow. Did you know that France was about to sell a helicopter carrier to Russia just before it became "evil Russia"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> France was doing business with Iraq before we invaded too. So?
> 
> Its funny you guys are now honestly trying to suggest Russia is the good guy and our friends. I didn't hear the GOP cry when Obama put sanctions on Russia back when Russia was invading. We all knew what they were doing was wrong but what could we say after Iraq?
> 
> So now you want to make nice with Hitler after he invaded Poland? Hope he's done land grabbing?
> 
> What if putin decides to " liberate" another soverign nation? What will you do then?
> 
> Putin is going to test this
Click to expand...


Relax  
Netherlands court claim, Russia is not sovereign country.
The Netherlands told to keep out of Crimean gold court case - DutchNews.nl

So, what will you do? Ask Netherlands government - who is now owner of Russian sovereignty - to stop aggression against another countries, using Russian Army...

We, Russian, are need only a peaceful relations with every country, but Netherlands...


----------



## Sbiker

sealybobo said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> France was doing business with Iraq before we invaded too. So?
> 
> Its funny you guys are now honestly trying to suggest Russia is the good guy and our friends. I didn't hear the GOP cry when Obama put sanctions on Russia back when Russia was invading. We all knew what they were doing was wrong but what could we say after Iraq?
> 
> So now you want to make nice with Hitler after he invaded Poland? Hope he's done land grabbing?
> 
> What if putin decides to " liberate" another soverign nation? What will you do then?
> 
> Putin is going to test this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Cold War is over. Trump knows that, and Putin knows that Trump knows that.
> 
> We have two grown ups here that both know that they do not want needless conflict.
> 
> Peace is very likely.
> 
> Not every authoritarian strongman is a Hitler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin is pretty evil. Remember he gave that one guy radioactive cancer because the guy challenged him? Of course you Wont believe it about your buddy putin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't make him a threat to the world balance of power.
> 
> Hell, the Castro regime is worse than that, and you guys want to make lovey dovey with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is propaganda by the way. Who knows who´s behind the killings that they blame on Putin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you looked into Putin's history you'd see a very evil kgb murderer but you won't believe it because you clearly have taken the Republican position of defending him.
> 
> You can't even be honest you're such a political hack.
> 
> If you would just be honest and say trump keeps his friends close and his enemies closer I'd have an ounce of respect for your political opinion.
Click to expand...


What do you want from Putin? Netherlands ordered! Putin just did


----------



## Sbiker

sealybobo said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> France was doing business with Iraq before we invaded too. So?
> 
> Its funny you guys are now honestly trying to suggest Russia is the good guy and our friends. I didn't hear the GOP cry when Obama put sanctions on Russia back when Russia was invading. We all knew what they were doing was wrong but what could we say after Iraq?
> 
> So now you want to make nice with Hitler after he invaded Poland? Hope he's done land grabbing?
> 
> What if putin decides to " liberate" another soverign nation? What will you do then?
> 
> Putin is going to test this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Cold War is over. Trump knows that, and Putin knows that Trump knows that.
> 
> We have two grown ups here that both know that they do not want needless conflict.
> 
> Peace is very likely.
> 
> Not every authoritarian strongman is a Hitler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin is pretty evil. Remember he gave that one guy radioactive cancer because the guy challenged him? Of course you Wont believe it about your buddy putin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't make him a threat to the world balance of power.
> 
> Hell, the Castro regime is worse than that, and you guys want to make lovey dovey with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is propaganda by the way. Who knows who´s behind the killings that they blame on Putin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When I read your comment I read it with a thick Russian accent.
Click to expand...


Do you hear any another voices with thick Russian accent inside your head?  Do you mean, Russian hackers hacked your mind?


----------



## ESay

Bleipriester said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Liberates from whom? What you don’t understand is that too many people in Ukraine don’t want this “liberation”.
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine has no voice as all parties are Nato puppets and all MPs hand-selected by the US.
> 
> Blue: Party of Regions (2012 elections), now banned under Nato puppet regime:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your map shows the results of so-called “одномандатный округ”. The Party of Regions got 30% of the votes in that election.
> 
> 
> But I don’t understand how it disavows what I said in my previous post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The violent overthrow was carried out by a small nazi minority, supported by the West and its puppet media.
> 
> Ukrainian parliamentary election, 2012 - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, the overthrow was carried out by ultra-nationalist groups. The vast number of the Ukrainians supported this overthrow and don’t want a union with Russia.
> 
> 
> Your link says what I said before – the Party of Regions got 30% of votes (look at numbers under Azarov’s photography). How the elections to Verkhovna Rada are organized (what is the difference between “одномандатные округа” and “многомандатный округ”) I can explain you in Russian if you wish (you can then use Google translate) because I am lazy to write this in English.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, sure... And why do you lie about the elections result again?
> 
> Of course, everyone likes nazis with spiked maces and wants them to govern. Sure....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine´s Nazi party in the government.
Click to expand...

Read again the article about the 2012 elections and try to comprehend what is written there.
Also, you can try to read the official site of Ukrainian Central Election Committee. Here there are the results of the 2012 elections in “многомандатный округ”: Центральна виборча комісія України - WWW відображення ІАС "Вибори народних депутатів України 2012"
Here the results in "одномандатные округа": Центральна виборча комісія України - WWW відображення ІАС "Вибори народних депутатів України 2012"

Good luck!


----------



## HenryBHough

Distrust Putin.

But trust Iran!

Don't believe me?

Then go ask Ayatollah (wannabe) Barry!


----------



## PoliticalChic

HenryBHough said:


> Distrust Putin.
> 
> But trust Iran!
> 
> Don't believe me?
> 
> Then go ask Ayatollah (wannabe) Barry!




Ayatollah Barry???

Good one, Hank!

I kinda like Crypto-Islamist

and

The Snake in the White House.


----------



## Comrade Johnson

Bleipriester said:


> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.



Yes, but a bit undpredictable


----------



## Bleipriester

Comrade Johnson said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but a bit undpredictable
Click to expand...

Really? Why that?


----------



## Comrade Johnson

Bleipriester said:


> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but a bit undpredictable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Why that?
Click to expand...


Because of the monarchy. You never know who is going to be the next Csar and when he goes crazy.


----------



## Sbiker

Comrade Johnson said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but a bit undpredictable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Why that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because of the monarchy. You never know who is going to be the next Csar and when he goes crazy.
Click to expand...


Comrade, it's easy! They plan to be next this gang of swindlers, named as "Romanovs" from a "Kirill" fork, and pope and patriarch are to upkeep them






It seems, there are no any chances for Russia to perform another communistic revolution and to establish USSR 2.0. Such a great food for US future propaganda )

P.S. There are only one way else. Trump is unfinished gestalt of Russian people - just let him to enlarge USA by poitical tools up to 130 states


----------



## Comrade Johnson

Sbiker said:


> It seems, there are no any chances for Russia to perform another communistic revolution and to establish USSR 2.0.



Hi, comrade!
Do you think that we really need the USSR-2? Comminists will break it apart again, what is the use in trying? And I don't think that the communist czars were any better. That's why Putin is so popular - he is not a serial murderer as Stalin, not a village idiot as Chruschev, not a drunkard as Yeltsin...


----------



## Sbiker

Comrade Johnson said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems, there are no any chances for Russia to perform another communistic revolution and to establish USSR 2.0.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, comrade!
> Do you think that we really need the USSR-2? Comminists will break it apart again, what is the use in trying? And I don't think that the communist czars were any better. That's why Putin is so popular - he is not a serial murderer as Stalin, not a village idiot as Chruschev, not a drunkard as Yeltsin...
Click to expand...


The world need Red Alert to tickle the nerves  But keyword is not USSR but 2.0. There are no now useful, modern communist theory. There are no useful in tzar practice. Nikolay 2 was a good people - but a catastropic tzar. Stalin was a ruthless authocrat - but made many good for country... I think the only way - to find more stable structure of government, instead of personality-oriented. But I'm afraid, Russia at least could kick down all major world players for the one-two decades to do it, because while they permanently perform anti-Russian propaganda and aggression - there's a few chances to concentrate on problems inside...


----------



## Bleipriester

Comrade Johnson said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but a bit undpredictable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Why that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because of the monarchy. You never know who is going to be the next Csar and when he goes crazy.
Click to expand...

Ha! The bear is very passive and needs major offensives to get him angry.


----------



## Comrade Johnson

Sbiker said:


> Stalin was a ruthless authocrat - but made many good for country...



Really?  Some examples? 



Bleipriester said:


> [
> 
> Ha! The bear is very passive and needs major offensives to get him angry.



Our bear is quite active


----------



## Sbiker

Comrade Johnson said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin was a ruthless authocrat - but made many good for country...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Some examples?
Click to expand...


For example, I'm living and speaking with you, not burned either by Hitler's crematory, either by US nuclear bombs...


----------



## Comrade Johnson

Sbiker said:


> [
> For example, I'm living and speaking with you, not burned either by Hitler's crematory, either by US nuclear bombs...



Ha, ha. Stalin did everything he could against it. He (with Lenin) killed one half of the Russian Army in the Civil War, and another half before  the German attack. He killed all intelligence service and that's why Germans took him by surprise.
His 'peasant-worker Army' was crushed competely in the first three weeks of the war. It was millions of 'ordinary' people who faught and gave their lives for our living.
Then he did everything he could for nuclear bombing of Russia when he started another round of that idiotic quarrel with the West. So thank God that Stalin was unsuccessful.


----------



## Sbiker

Comrade Johnson said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> For example, I'm living and speaking with you, not burned either by Hitler's crematory, either by US nuclear bombs...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ha, ha. Stalin did everything he could against it. He (with Lenin) killed one half of the Russian Army in the Civil War, and another half before  the German attack. He killed all intelligence service and that's why Germans took him by surprise.
> His 'peasant-worker Army' was crushed competely in the first three weeks of the war. It was millions of 'ordinary' people who faught and gave their lives for our living.
> Then he did everything he could for nuclear bombing of Russia when he started another round of that idiotic quarrel with the West. So thank God that Stalin was unsuccessful.
Click to expand...


Looking, how easy you prepare to murder millions people for the imaginary crimes of one, I can only pray for Stalin and Beria, constructed nuclear-rocket shield of USSR and Russian Federation  

Do you really think, Cold War was started by Stalin's speech?


----------



## Comrade Johnson

Sbiker said:


> Looking, how easy you prepare to murder millions people for the imaginary crimes of one, I can only pray for Stalin and Beria, constructed nuclear-rocket shield of USSR and Russian Federation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really think, Cold War was started by Stalin's speech?




Imaginary crimes? He he…

Thanks to the Bolsheviks several millions died in the Civil War, several millions died in 30-s and 30 millions died in WWII because of the leadership of the mentally ill person. Of course, survivors may be thankful that another people were killed, not them.

The nuclear shield has nothing to do with Beria, Americans did the same without killing all their army commanders and intelligence service.


The Cold War started when Lenin and his crazy idiots declared that all the word is an enemy of 'peasants and workers'. The US was the one and only country which helped us in the most terrible moment of our history and they were our allies in that war. Stalin promised them to take elections in the countries of Eastern Europe and as always lied.

When I have time I will give a list of idiotic mistakes of Stalin which put Russia on the verge of ruination. Actually, he lost the war against Hitler. We are talking to each other since the emperor of Japan refused to attack the Soviet Union in 1941 and said 'no' to his ministers. Stalin and other Bolsheviks did everything they could for our total collapse.

Praying for Beria is the same thing as praying for Himmler and other war criminals.


----------



## Sbiker

Comrade Johnson said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looking, how easy you prepare to murder millions people for the imaginary crimes of one, I can only pray for Stalin and Beria, constructed nuclear-rocket shield of USSR and Russian Federation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really think, Cold War was started by Stalin's speech?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imaginary crimes? He he…
> 
> Thanks to the Bolsheviks several millions died in the Civil War, several millions died in 30-s and 30 millions died in WWII because of the leadership of the mentally ill person. Of course, survivors may be thankful that another people were killed, not them.
> 
> The nuclear shield has nothing to do with Beria, Americans did the same without killing all their army commanders and intelligence service.
> 
> The Cold War started when Lenin and his crazy idiots declared that all the word is an enemy of 'peasants and workers'. The US was the one and only country which helped us in the most terrible moment of our history and they were our allies in that war. Stalin promised them to take elections in the countries of Eastern Europe and as always lied.
> 
> When I have time I will give a list of idiotic mistakes of Stalin which put Russia on the verge of ruination. Actually, he lost the war against Hitler. We are talking to each other since the emperor of Japan refused to attack the Soviet Union in 1941 and said 'no' to his ministers. Stalin and other Bolsheviks did everything they could for our total collapse.
> 
> Praying for Beria is the same thing as praying for Himmler and other war criminals.
Click to expand...


Which "choking truth" we could listen from voices in your head else? 

Your mind is filled by very interesting, but not original mix from Soviet and anti-Soviet propaganda. You should clean your mind and leave all propaganda behind, before talking about Russian or world history. Try to read books, documents (it's not difficult, a lot of documents now out of secrecy), and think logically 

May I ask, where do you live now and what are you doing, having your info useful or, at least, non-harmful for your activity?


----------



## Comrade Johnson

I am afraid that your mind is full of propagandas of all sorts, comrade, if you are praying for mass murderers. Try to read something and use your brains. And start with the history of Russia when the Bolsheviks took power and began to kill millions of people (then communists did the same in China, Korea etc.). Didn't you ever think why Canada, for example, doesn't need any nuclear shields against the US? Try to understand that it's because Canada haven't been ruled by ghouls like Stalin or Lenin. If Stalin had ruled Canada, no Canadians would have left at all.


Yes, sure. I live in Moscow. What do you mean by 'having your info useful'?


----------



## Sbiker

Comrade Johnson said:


> I am afraid that your mind is full of propagandas of all sorts, comrade, if you are praying for mass murderers. Try to read something and use your brains. And start with the history of Russia when the Bolsheviks took power and began to kill millions of people (then communists did the same in China, Korea etc.). Didn't you ever think why Canada, for example, doesn't need any nuclear shields against the US? Try to understand that it's because Canada haven't been ruled by ghouls like Stalin or Lenin. If Stalin had ruled Canada, no Canadians would have left at all.
> 
> 
> Yes, sure. I live in Moscow. What do you mean by 'having your info useful'?



If you use myth about "Stalin's repression" in your current activity - such a politics, ot eating grants or somewhere else, where they pay for Russophobia or for de-Stalinization - it's understandable. If your family took part in political games of USSR and got a repression - it's a tragedy, but it's a tragedy of your own family, not a Russia. 
How do you combine your beliefs with histocial facts? 

I understand your questions about Canada, but it's only one answer at your question - Russia is not Canada. Now is open borders, you can any moment to try living in Canada at practice - and then reveal to us, where is Russia wrong 

You talking, Stalin or Lenin is a reason of anti-Russian aggression. Ok, now there are no any Stalin and Lenin, but NATO already cut off Baltic countries from Russian territory and now concentrates army forces there... Were the Stalin or Lenin alive during Crimea war? During Napoleonic war? Were the Stalin or Lenin in Japan, when US bombed Hirosima? You'd better thank Stalin, he showed, MIG-15 and Voschod rocket were more effective reason not to perform nuclear bombing of Russia, than any "peaceful intentions". USSR gave to NATO control for demonstration of "peaceful intentions" all Warsaw agreement countries, Baltic REPUBLICS - not a "countries" - who's remember now about this materialized "peaceful intentions", when western media roaring about Russian aggression every day?


----------



## Eloy

Sbiker said:


> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am afraid that your mind is full of propagandas of all sorts, comrade, if you are praying for mass murderers. Try to read something and use your brains. And start with the history of Russia when the Bolsheviks took power and began to kill millions of people (then communists did the same in China, Korea etc.). Didn't you ever think why Canada, for example, doesn't need any nuclear shields against the US? Try to understand that it's because Canada haven't been ruled by ghouls like Stalin or Lenin. If Stalin had ruled Canada, no Canadians would have left at all.
> 
> 
> Yes, sure. I live in Moscow. What do you mean by 'having your info useful'?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you use myth about "Stalin's repression" in your current activity - such a politics, ot eating grants or somewhere else, where they pay for Russophobia or for de-Stalinization - it's understandable. If your family took part in political games of USSR and got a repression - it's a tragedy, but it's a tragedy of your own family, not a Russia.
> How do you combine your beliefs with histocial facts?
> 
> I understand your questions about Canada, but it's only one answer at your question - Russia is not Canada. Now is open borders, you can any moment to try living in Canada at practice - and then reveal to us, where is Russia wrong
> 
> You talking, Stalin or Lenin is a reason of anti-Russian aggression. Ok, now there are no any Stalin and Lenin, but NATO already cut off Baltic countries from Russian territory and now concentrates army forces there... Were the Stalin or Lenin alive during Crimea war? During Napoleonic war? Were the Stalin or Lenin in Japan, when US bombed Hirosima? You'd better thank Stalin, he showed, MIG-15 and Voschod rocket were more effective reason not to perform nuclear bombing of Russia, than any "peaceful intentions". USSR gave to NATO control for demonstration of "peaceful intentions" all Warsaw agreement countries, Baltic REPUBLICS - not a "countries" - who's remember now about this materialized "peaceful intentions", when western media roaring about Russian aggression every day?
Click to expand...

Russia was a friend of Europe of necessity in WWII but suspicion remained although it was an ally and Stalin did use the opportunity of the Third Reich's defeat to swallow-up eastern Europe which was only liberated with the fall of the Soviet system. 

The old Soviet Union had much to commend it to idealistic Russians and ex-KGB officer Putin would like to be a strong man and nationalist. He fears the attraction to democracy which the European Union represents to the Russian people and he years for control over lost vassal states in Europe. Like Donald Trump and English conservatives, Putin wants the European Union to fail so that he can once again conquer the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as well as Ukraine and maybe other states too. He is sowing the seeds of eurosceptism by encouraging nationalists in France and Germany in the hope of destroying the uniry of the European Union. You can be sure that he is delighted with Brexit.


----------



## JimH52

Eloy said:


> Vladimir Putin learned well as he trained to be a KGB agent how to find a weakness in his opponents and exploit it. An example is how he is managing the European Union parts of which rely on Russia for energy, such as Germany. He knows Germany and the Germans well, having been a secret agent in Dresden when Angela Merkel, who speaks fluent Russian, lived in the Deutsche Demokratische Republik (DDR).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin in Dresden mid-1980s
> 
> In 1989 the wall in Berlin came down and the people in Dresden were feeling that their nationalism was in the ascent. The mob moved on the Ministry for State Security (Stasi) and then headed across the road to the KGB headquarters but before they could enter they were met by Vladimir Putin who told them that his men were armed and had permission to shoot. The small crowd left. Putin was seeing a type of German nationalism which was discouraged in the DDR under the thumb of Moscau. He left Germany and returned to Leningrad which people even there were beginning to call St. Petersburg. Like East Germany, nationalism was on the rise in the imploding Soviet Union. Putin saw first hand what this people power can do and he put his future in it with the contacts he had made with other KGB agents from Dresden. They are all now directors of former Soviet industries, now privatized and whose wealth goes into the pockets of Putin and pals.
> 
> Putin hates the European Union (EU) which has imposed hurting sanctions on Russia for invading Ukraine and annexing Crimea. EU member states in the east were under Soviet rule and, like East Germany, they have put their future into a partnership of nations but they are nervous of Russia. The Baltic states have native Russian speakers and Putin might just make a move. Poland and Hungary too throw a glance at Russia and wonder. Putin knows the weakness of the Europeans is their nationalism and he will work on this to pull asunder the EU just as it did in the DDR. The racism which is fundamental to nationalism can be exploited so that individual members who are rejecting the EU in favor of their own sense of identity as distinct from neighbors and better without them. Putin must be overjoyed that Britain is about to leave the EU (Brexit) and what a gift Donald Trump has given him by declaring that Nato is obsolete and he likes Putin.
> 
> This will be how the Kremlin will undermine the EU, making individual relationships with European nationalists, picking them off one at a time. This week  Heinz-Christian Strache, Austria's far right leader has signed an alliance with President Putin's United Russia party and has offered to act as a go-between for the Kremlin and Donal Trump. Well, what do you know, the birthplace of Aryan nationalist, Adolf Hitler, Austria's neo-Nazis might just be next to have an exit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heinz-Christian Strache leader of Austria's Freedom Party signed a co-operation agreement with Sergei Zheleznyak, United Russia's deputy leader who is subject to travel bans and asset freezes by the EU.



And now he has a oarter in the White House to help him destroy the US-Europe relationship in president Bannon.


----------



## Comrade Johnson

Sbiker, a senseless combination of words, comrade. Agression, Napoleonic war, NATO, Mig-15, Hiroshima... Learn the history of your country.
I have already read Pravda and a bit tired of it. Sorry.


----------



## Comrade Johnson

Eloy said:


> Putin wants the European Union to fail so that he can once again conquer the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as well as Ukraine and maybe other states too.



I would say that he rather wanted to replace the US in Europe. As for the Ukraine crisis, I think that it is mostly a question of the military base in the Crimea.


----------



## Sbiker

Comrade Johnson said:


> Sbiker, a senseless combination of words, comrade. Agression, Napoleonic war, NATO, Mig-15, Hiroshima... Learn the history of your country.
> I have already read Pravda and a bit tired of it. Sorry.



I'm and my relatives are a part of Russian history too... I know, Moscow and Russia are two different countries and there are no sentience life for you outside the MKAD.... So, just make your choose between Moscow and Canada and don't speak about Russia, which you absolutely don't know... If you're really live in Moscow, not somewhere near the Kyiv ))


----------



## Art__Allm

Eloy said:


> Vladimir Putin learned well as he trained to be a KGB agent how to find a weakness in his opponents and exploit it. An example is how he is managing the European Union parts of which rely on Russia for energy, such as Germany. He knows Germany and the Germans well, having been a secret agent in Dresden when Angela Merkel, who speaks fluent Russian, lived in the Deutsche Demokratische Republik (DDR).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin in Dresden mid-1980s
> 
> In 1989 the wall in Berlin came down and the people in Dresden were feeling that their nationalism was in the ascent. The mob moved on the Ministry for State Security (Stasi) and then headed across the road to the KGB headquarters but before they could enter they were met by Vladimir Putin who told them that his men were armed and had permission to shoot. The small crowd left. Putin was seeing a type of German nationalism which was discouraged in the DDR under the thumb of Moscau. He left Germany and returned to Leningrad which people even there were beginning to call St. Petersburg. Like East Germany, nationalism was on the rise in the imploding Soviet Union. Putin saw first hand what this people power can do and he put his future in it with the contacts he had made with other KGB agents from Dresden. They are all now directors of former Soviet industries, now privatized and whose wealth goes into the pockets of Putin and pals.
> 
> Putin hates the European Union (EU) which has imposed hurting sanctions on Russia for invading Ukraine and annexing Crimea. EU member states in the east were under Soviet rule and, like East Germany, they have put their future into a partnership of nations but they are nervous of Russia. The Baltic states have native Russian speakers and Putin might just make a move. Poland and Hungary too throw a glance at Russia and wonder. Putin knows the weakness of the Europeans is their nationalism and he will work on this to pull asunder the EU just as it did in the DDR. The racism which is fundamental to nationalism can be exploited so that individual members who are rejecting the EU in favor of their own sense of identity as distinct from neighbors and better without them. Putin must be overjoyed that Britain is about to leave the EU (Brexit) and what a gift Donald Trump has given him by declaring that Nato is obsolete and he likes Putin.
> 
> This will be how the Kremlin will undermine the EU, making individual relationships with European nationalists, picking them off one at a time. This week  Heinz-Christian Strache, Austria's far right leader has signed an alliance with President Putin's United Russia party and has offered to act as a go-between for the Kremlin and Donal Trump. Well, what do you know, the birthplace of Aryan nationalist, Adolf Hitler, Austria's neo-Nazis might just be next to have an exit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heinz-Christian Strache leader of Austria's Freedom Party signed a co-operation agreement with Sergei Zheleznyak, United Russia's deputy leader who is subject to travel bans and asset freezes by the EU.



What a BS!
The Europeans are fed up with their corrupt governments because of the lying media that does not tell the truth, not because of Putin.

*‏@wikileaks*
*Germany's CIA (BND) after big investigation: It's not the Russian's it's lousy journalists hyping bogus stories*

BTW, guys like you are eye openers, you redpil the Normies that still believe in the stories, told by these the presstitutes.


----------



## Eloy

Comrade Johnson said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin wants the European Union to fail so that he can once again conquer the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as well as Ukraine and maybe other states too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that he rather wanted to replace the US in Europe. As for the Ukraine crisis, I think that it is mostly a question of the military base in the Crimea.
Click to expand...

Remember, Russia controlled half of Europe during Soviet times. Europeans are very nervous that Putin sees eastern Europe as lost territory and he wants it returned.



.


----------



## Correll

Eloy said:


> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin wants the European Union to fail so that he can once again conquer the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as well as Ukraine and maybe other states too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that he rather wanted to replace the US in Europe. As for the Ukraine crisis, I think that it is mostly a question of the military base in the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Remember, Russia controlled half of Europe during Soviet times. Europeans are very nervous that Putin sees eastern Europe as lost territory and he wants it returned.
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...



Yet they are happy to let him control their gas supply.


----------



## Sbiker

Comrade Johnson said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin wants the European Union to fail so that he can once again conquer the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as well as Ukraine and maybe other states too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that he rather wanted to replace the US in Europe. As for the Ukraine crisis, I think that it is mostly a question of the military base in the Crimea.
Click to expand...


I think, not


Comrade Johnson said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin wants the European Union to fail so that he can once again conquer the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as well as Ukraine and maybe other states too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that he rather wanted to replace the US in Europe. As for the Ukraine crisis, I think that it is mostly a question of the military base in the Crimea.
Click to expand...


To replace US army in Europe - for what purpose? Shooting the islamists near the military bases and listening permanent whining about "how evil are Russians"?  What's the benefit of Russian army presence in EU in Euro?


----------



## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin wants the European Union to fail so that he can once again conquer the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as well as Ukraine and maybe other states too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that he rather wanted to replace the US in Europe. As for the Ukraine crisis, I think that it is mostly a question of the military base in the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Remember, Russia controlled half of Europe during Soviet times. Europeans are very nervous that Putin sees eastern Europe as lost territory and he wants it returned.
> 
> .
Click to expand...


Before they get nervious let them to watch in mirror. The one and single reason to own any country in eastern Europe - just to avoid permanent anti-Russian aggression. What else useful Russia could get from this poor, permanently anti-Russian countries?

For example, Russia has nothing against Finland, even Finland was a part of Russian Empire too - only because Finland became neutral to Russia after 1940....


----------



## Eloy

Art__Allm said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Vladimir Putin learned well as he trained to be a KGB agent how to find a weakness in his opponents and exploit it. An example is how he is managing the European Union parts of which rely on Russia for energy, such as Germany. He knows Germany and the Germans well, having been a secret agent in Dresden when Angela Merkel, who speaks fluent Russian, lived in the Deutsche Demokratische Republik (DDR).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin in Dresden mid-1980s
> 
> In 1989 the wall in Berlin came down and the people in Dresden were feeling that their nationalism was in the ascent. The mob moved on the Ministry for State Security (Stasi) and then headed across the road to the KGB headquarters but before they could enter they were met by Vladimir Putin who told them that his men were armed and had permission to shoot. The small crowd left. Putin was seeing a type of German nationalism which was discouraged in the DDR under the thumb of Moscau. He left Germany and returned to Leningrad which people even there were beginning to call St. Petersburg. Like East Germany, nationalism was on the rise in the imploding Soviet Union. Putin saw first hand what this people power can do and he put his future in it with the contacts he had made with other KGB agents from Dresden. They are all now directors of former Soviet industries, now privatized and whose wealth goes into the pockets of Putin and pals.
> 
> Putin hates the European Union (EU) which has imposed hurting sanctions on Russia for invading Ukraine and annexing Crimea. EU member states in the east were under Soviet rule and, like East Germany, they have put their future into a partnership of nations but they are nervous of Russia. The Baltic states have native Russian speakers and Putin might just make a move. Poland and Hungary too throw a glance at Russia and wonder. Putin knows the weakness of the Europeans is their nationalism and he will work on this to pull asunder the EU just as it did in the DDR. The racism which is fundamental to nationalism can be exploited so that individual members who are rejecting the EU in favor of their own sense of identity as distinct from neighbors and better without them. Putin must be overjoyed that Britain is about to leave the EU (Brexit) and what a gift Donald Trump has given him by declaring that Nato is obsolete and he likes Putin.
> 
> This will be how the Kremlin will undermine the EU, making individual relationships with European nationalists, picking them off one at a time. This week  Heinz-Christian Strache, Austria's far right leader has signed an alliance with President Putin's United Russia party and has offered to act as a go-between for the Kremlin and Donal Trump. Well, what do you know, the birthplace of Aryan nationalist, Adolf Hitler, Austria's neo-Nazis might just be next to have an exit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heinz-Christian Strache leader of Austria's Freedom Party signed a co-operation agreement with Sergei Zheleznyak, United Russia's deputy leader who is subject to travel bans and asset freezes by the EU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a BS!
> The Europeans are fed up with their corrupt governments because of the lying media that does not tell the truth, not because of Putin.
> 
> *‏@wikileaks*
> *Germany's CIA (BND) after big investigation: It's not the Russian's it's lousy journalists hyping bogus stories*
> 
> BTW, guys like you are eye openers, you redpil the Normies that still believe in the stories, told by these the presstitutes.
Click to expand...

Putin agrees with you but the European democracies do not and they are ready and willing to defend their homeland.





Nordic Battle Group of the European Union




,


----------



## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Vladimir Putin learned well as he trained to be a KGB agent how to find a weakness in his opponents and exploit it. An example is how he is managing the European Union parts of which rely on Russia for energy, such as Germany. He knows Germany and the Germans well, having been a secret agent in Dresden when Angela Merkel, who speaks fluent Russian, lived in the Deutsche Demokratische Republik (DDR).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin in Dresden mid-1980s
> 
> In 1989 the wall in Berlin came down and the people in Dresden were feeling that their nationalism was in the ascent. The mob moved on the Ministry for State Security (Stasi) and then headed across the road to the KGB headquarters but before they could enter they were met by Vladimir Putin who told them that his men were armed and had permission to shoot. The small crowd left. Putin was seeing a type of German nationalism which was discouraged in the DDR under the thumb of Moscau. He left Germany and returned to Leningrad which people even there were beginning to call St. Petersburg. Like East Germany, nationalism was on the rise in the imploding Soviet Union. Putin saw first hand what this people power can do and he put his future in it with the contacts he had made with other KGB agents from Dresden. They are all now directors of former Soviet industries, now privatized and whose wealth goes into the pockets of Putin and pals.
> 
> Putin hates the European Union (EU) which has imposed hurting sanctions on Russia for invading Ukraine and annexing Crimea. EU member states in the east were under Soviet rule and, like East Germany, they have put their future into a partnership of nations but they are nervous of Russia. The Baltic states have native Russian speakers and Putin might just make a move. Poland and Hungary too throw a glance at Russia and wonder. Putin knows the weakness of the Europeans is their nationalism and he will work on this to pull asunder the EU just as it did in the DDR. The racism which is fundamental to nationalism can be exploited so that individual members who are rejecting the EU in favor of their own sense of identity as distinct from neighbors and better without them. Putin must be overjoyed that Britain is about to leave the EU (Brexit) and what a gift Donald Trump has given him by declaring that Nato is obsolete and he likes Putin.
> 
> This will be how the Kremlin will undermine the EU, making individual relationships with European nationalists, picking them off one at a time. This week  Heinz-Christian Strache, Austria's far right leader has signed an alliance with President Putin's United Russia party and has offered to act as a go-between for the Kremlin and Donal Trump. Well, what do you know, the birthplace of Aryan nationalist, Adolf Hitler, Austria's neo-Nazis might just be next to have an exit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heinz-Christian Strache leader of Austria's Freedom Party signed a co-operation agreement with Sergei Zheleznyak, United Russia's deputy leader who is subject to travel bans and asset freezes by the EU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a BS!
> The Europeans are fed up with their corrupt governments because of the lying media that does not tell the truth, not because of Putin.
> 
> *‏@wikileaks*
> *Germany's CIA (BND) after big investigation: It's not the Russian's it's lousy journalists hyping bogus stories*
> 
> BTW, guys like you are eye openers, you redpil the Normies that still believe in the stories, told by these the presstitutes.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin agrees with you but the European democracies do not and they are ready and willing to defend their homeland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nordic Battle Group of the European Union
Click to expand...


Do you mean, EU has a real democracy???? So, you mean, majority of European people are welcome to islamist migrants, terrorism and so on?


----------



## JimH52

Eloy said:


> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin wants the European Union to fail so that he can once again conquer the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as well as Ukraine and maybe other states too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that he rather wanted to replace the US in Europe. As for the Ukraine crisis, I think that it is mostly a question of the military base in the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Remember, Russia controlled half of Europe during Soviet times. Europeans are very nervous that Putin sees eastern Europe as lost territory and he wants it returned.
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...


and they know yhe Comrade in the White House will do NOTHING to stop Putin from reclaiming the old Soviet states.  He can't.because he is being blackmailed.


----------



## Eloy

Correll said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin wants the European Union to fail so that he can once again conquer the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as well as Ukraine and maybe other states too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that he rather wanted to replace the US in Europe. As for the Ukraine crisis, I think that it is mostly a question of the military base in the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Remember, Russia controlled half of Europe during Soviet times. Europeans are very nervous that Putin sees eastern Europe as lost territory and he wants it returned.
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yet they are happy to let him control their gas supply.
Click to expand...

Indeed, Russia is rich in gas and if it serves some states of the European Union to purchase it, why not?




.


----------



## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am afraid that your mind is full of propagandas of all sorts, comrade, if you are praying for mass murderers. Try to read something and use your brains. And start with the history of Russia when the Bolsheviks took power and began to kill millions of people (then communists did the same in China, Korea etc.). Didn't you ever think why Canada, for example, doesn't need any nuclear shields against the US? Try to understand that it's because Canada haven't been ruled by ghouls like Stalin or Lenin. If Stalin had ruled Canada, no Canadians would have left at all.
> 
> 
> Yes, sure. I live in Moscow. What do you mean by 'having your info useful'?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you use myth about "Stalin's repression" in your current activity - such a politics, ot eating grants or somewhere else, where they pay for Russophobia or for de-Stalinization - it's understandable. If your family took part in political games of USSR and got a repression - it's a tragedy, but it's a tragedy of your own family, not a Russia.
> How do you combine your beliefs with histocial facts?
> 
> I understand your questions about Canada, but it's only one answer at your question - Russia is not Canada. Now is open borders, you can any moment to try living in Canada at practice - and then reveal to us, where is Russia wrong
> 
> You talking, Stalin or Lenin is a reason of anti-Russian aggression. Ok, now there are no any Stalin and Lenin, but NATO already cut off Baltic countries from Russian territory and now concentrates army forces there... Were the Stalin or Lenin alive during Crimea war? During Napoleonic war? Were the Stalin or Lenin in Japan, when US bombed Hirosima? You'd better thank Stalin, he showed, MIG-15 and Voschod rocket were more effective reason not to perform nuclear bombing of Russia, than any "peaceful intentions". USSR gave to NATO control for demonstration of "peaceful intentions" all Warsaw agreement countries, Baltic REPUBLICS - not a "countries" - who's remember now about this materialized "peaceful intentions", when western media roaring about Russian aggression every day?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia was a friend of Europe of necessity in WWII but suspicion remained although it was an ally and Stalin did use the opportunity of the Third Reich's defeat to swallow-up eastern Europe which was only liberated with the fall of the Soviet system.
> 
> The old Soviet Union had much to commend it to idealistic Russians and ex-KGB officer Putin would like to be a strong man and nationalist. He fears the attraction to democracy which the European Union represents to the Russian people and he years for control over lost vassal states in Europe. Like Donald Trump and English conservatives, Putin wants the European Union to fail so that he can once again conquer the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as well as Ukraine and maybe other states too. He is sowing the seeds of eurosceptism by encouraging nationalists in France and Germany in the hope of destroying the uniry of the European Union. You can be sure that he is delighted with Brexit.
Click to expand...


If Russia want to fail EU - why Putin invest billions to build Railway Silk Path? Who would trade through this giant way, if EU fails?

If Russia plan to own Baltic countries, for what purposes Russia building Ust-Luga terminal, replaced Baltic ports? Do you really think, Russia has too many money to spend it in useless projects?

There are a lot of question, you don't think about....


----------



## Eloy

JimH52 said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin wants the European Union to fail so that he can once again conquer the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as well as Ukraine and maybe other states too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that he rather wanted to replace the US in Europe. As for the Ukraine crisis, I think that it is mostly a question of the military base in the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Remember, Russia controlled half of Europe during Soviet times. Europeans are very nervous that Putin sees eastern Europe as lost territory and he wants it returned.
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and they know yhe Comrade in the White House will do NOTHING to stop Putin from reclaiming the old Soviet states.  He can't.because he is being blackmailed.
Click to expand...

I believe you are correct.




.


----------



## Eloy

Sbiker said:


> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin wants the European Union to fail so that he can once again conquer the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as well as Ukraine and maybe other states too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that he rather wanted to replace the US in Europe. As for the Ukraine crisis, I think that it is mostly a question of the military base in the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think, not
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin wants the European Union to fail so that he can once again conquer the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as well as Ukraine and maybe other states too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would say that he rather wanted to replace the US in Europe. As for the Ukraine crisis, I think that it is mostly a question of the military base in the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To replace US army in Europe - for what purpose? Shooting the islamists near the military bases and listening permanent whining about "how evil are Russians"?  What's the benefit of Russian army presence in EU in Euro?
Click to expand...

Our police can manage criminals of all religions and none. Our army is waiting for the Russians. Taking Crimea was a signal and it was reinforced by shooting down a plane with Dutch families on board while fomenting disorder in eastern Ukraine. We are saying to the Russians: ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ! Или подготовитесь к последствиям.




.


----------



## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin wants the European Union to fail so that he can once again conquer the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as well as Ukraine and maybe other states too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that he rather wanted to replace the US in Europe. As for the Ukraine crisis, I think that it is mostly a question of the military base in the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think, not
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin wants the European Union to fail so that he can once again conquer the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as well as Ukraine and maybe other states too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would say that he rather wanted to replace the US in Europe. As for the Ukraine crisis, I think that it is mostly a question of the military base in the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To replace US army in Europe - for what purpose? Shooting the islamists near the military bases and listening permanent whining about "how evil are Russians"?  What's the benefit of Russian army presence in EU in Euro?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our police can manage criminals of all religions and none. Our army is waiting for the Russians. Taking Crimea was a signal and it was reinforced by shooting down a plane with Dutch families on board while fomenting disorder in eastern Ukraine. We are saying to the Russians: ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ! Или подготовитесь к последствиям.
> 
> .
Click to expand...


You'd better say "ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ" to Ukrainian terrorists - they all well known and regularily use russian in private  And they also have experience to strike civilian planes. Russia didn't stroke Matias Rust. Ukraine didn't have any doubts to strike Tu-154, flying to Tel-Aviv. They told, they don't have any "Buk" year ago? So, now they magically found them at their warehouses and now trying to threaten to Crimea by them...

You, "fluffy" united europeans already invaded into Russian territory in 1609, 1708, 1812, 1854, 1918, 1941... Welcome another times. We have enough territories for your graves. Offcourse, Russia is wild aggressor. Russia would attack every "fluffy" european or someone else at Russian territory. Sorry. But don't sing about "Russian aggression", enlargening NATO forces at Russian border in Baltic countries. We're a dangerous animal. We're always defend, when you attack us... ))

And we're already tired of Putin's peacefulness. You could listen any crazy propaganda you want, but stay away of Russian borders or lay in ground inside them... I think, it's a fair choice 

> Или подготовитесь к последствиям.

Всегда готов!


----------



## JimH52

Sbiker said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin wants the European Union to fail so that he can once again conquer the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as well as Ukraine and maybe other states too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that he rather wanted to replace the US in Europe. As for the Ukraine crisis, I think that it is mostly a question of the military base in the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think, not
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin wants the European Union to fail so that he can once again conquer the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as well as Ukraine and maybe other states too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would say that he rather wanted to replace the US in Europe. As for the Ukraine crisis, I think that it is mostly a question of the military base in the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To replace US army in Europe - for what purpose? Shooting the islamists near the military bases and listening permanent whining about "how evil are Russians"?  What's the benefit of Russian army presence in EU in Euro?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our police can manage criminals of all religions and none. Our army is waiting for the Russians. Taking Crimea was a signal and it was reinforced by shooting down a plane with Dutch families on board while fomenting disorder in eastern Ukraine. We are saying to the Russians: ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ! Или подготовитесь к последствиям.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You'd better say "ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ" to Ukrainian terrorists - they all well known and regularily use russian in private  And they also have experience to strike civilian planes. Russia didn't stroke Matias Rust. Ukraine didn't have any doubts to strike Tu-154, flying to Tel-Aviv. They told, they don't have any "Buk" year ago? So, now they magically found them at their warehouses and now trying to threaten to Crimea by them...
> 
> You, "fluffy" united europeans already invaded into Russian territory in 1609, 1708, 1812, 1854, 1918, 1941... Welcome another times. We have enough territories for your graves. Offcourse, Russia is wild aggressor. Russia would attack every "fluffy" european or someone else at Russian territory. Sorry. But don't sing about "Russian aggression", enlargening NATO forces at Russian border in Baltic countries. We're a dangerous animal. We're always defend, when you attack us... ))
> 
> And we're already tired of Putin's peacefulness. You could listen any crazy propaganda you want, but stay away of Russian borders or lay in ground inside them... I think, it's a fair choice
> 
> > Или подготовитесь к последствиям.
> 
> Всегда готов!
Click to expand...


You sound like a great choice for a Comrade cabinet member.


----------



## xyz

Bleipriester said:


> Ukraine-ISIS association demonstration


One of the worst looking Photoshop jobs I've ever seen.


----------



## Sbiker

JimH52 said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin wants the European Union to fail so that he can once again conquer the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as well as Ukraine and maybe other states too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that he rather wanted to replace the US in Europe. As for the Ukraine crisis, I think that it is mostly a question of the military base in the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think, not
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin wants the European Union to fail so that he can once again conquer the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as well as Ukraine and maybe other states too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would say that he rather wanted to replace the US in Europe. As for the Ukraine crisis, I think that it is mostly a question of the military base in the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To replace US army in Europe - for what purpose? Shooting the islamists near the military bases and listening permanent whining about "how evil are Russians"?  What's the benefit of Russian army presence in EU in Euro?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our police can manage criminals of all religions and none. Our army is waiting for the Russians. Taking Crimea was a signal and it was reinforced by shooting down a plane with Dutch families on board while fomenting disorder in eastern Ukraine. We are saying to the Russians: ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ! Или подготовитесь к последствиям.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You'd better say "ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ" to Ukrainian terrorists - they all well known and regularily use russian in private  And they also have experience to strike civilian planes. Russia didn't stroke Matias Rust. Ukraine didn't have any doubts to strike Tu-154, flying to Tel-Aviv. They told, they don't have any "Buk" year ago? So, now they magically found them at their warehouses and now trying to threaten to Crimea by them...
> 
> You, "fluffy" united europeans already invaded into Russian territory in 1609, 1708, 1812, 1854, 1918, 1941... Welcome another times. We have enough territories for your graves. Offcourse, Russia is wild aggressor. Russia would attack every "fluffy" european or someone else at Russian territory. Sorry. But don't sing about "Russian aggression", enlargening NATO forces at Russian border in Baltic countries. We're a dangerous animal. We're always defend, when you attack us... ))
> 
> And we're already tired of Putin's peacefulness. You could listen any crazy propaganda you want, but stay away of Russian borders or lay in ground inside them... I think, it's a fair choice
> 
> > Или подготовитесь к последствиям.
> 
> Всегда готов!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sound like a great choice for a Comrade cabinet member.
Click to expand...


What wrong in my wishes to see all anti-Russian EU dogs outside of Russian borders?


----------



## Bleipriester

xyz said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-ISIS association demonstration
> 
> 
> 
> One of the worst looking Photoshop jobs I've ever seen.
Click to expand...

Like that NSDAP sweatshirt? It is obvious you are in denial of reality.


----------



## ESay

Bleipriester said:


> xyz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-ISIS association demonstration
> 
> 
> 
> One of the worst looking Photoshop jobs I've ever seen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like that NSDAP sweatshirt? It is obvious you are in denial of reality.
Click to expand...

It may well be that your reality exists in a parallel world. According to this site
Россияне вышли на ''Марш мира'' (ФОТО)
this foto was taken in Russia during a meeting against the war in Ukraine. Scroll down the page, this foto is thirteenth from the top.


----------



## Bleipriester

ESay said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xyz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-ISIS association demonstration
> 
> 
> 
> One of the worst looking Photoshop jobs I've ever seen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like that NSDAP sweatshirt? It is obvious you are in denial of reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It may well be that your reality exists in a parallel world. According to this site
> Россияне вышли на ''Марш мира'' (ФОТО)
> this foto was taken in Russia during a meeting against the war in Ukraine. Scroll down the page, this foto is thirteenth from the top.
Click to expand...

It is an ISIS fake, then:
ISIS Twitterers Passing Around Photo of Terrorist Supporters at a Ukraine Protest

This, however, doesn´t change that ISIS fights for the Ukrainian junta:
Jewish Voice


----------



## Art__Allm

Eloy said:


> Remember, Russia controlled half of Europe during Soviet times.
> .



There was no independent Russia during the Soviet times, Russian Federation was just a Soviet Republic. Most Soviet leaders were not Russians, and Soviet Union was not created by Russians. Russians were a discriminated group in the anti-Christian  Soviet Union.

Here is what Churchill tells about the take over of power by the Bolsheviks in Russia.


_*"From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognisable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire".
Zionism versus Bolshevism - Wikisource, the free online library*_

Neither Trotzki, nor Stalin, nor Khrushchev were Russians. Khrushchev was an Ukrainian who "sold" the Russian Crimean Peninsula to his Ukrainian Commie buddies.

How stupid and ignorant must somebody be to confuse Russia and the Soviet Union?



Eloy said:


> Europeans are very nervous that Putin sees eastern Europe as lost territory and he wants it returned.



What a BS!
Europeans are nervous not because of Russians or Putin, but because their countries are flooded by Third World migrants who rape European women and destroy European culture.
But this is not Putin's fault, this is the fault of warmongers who are waging crazy wars in the Middle  East, destroying functional states and replacing them wich anarchy.

In fact, Putin will do a good job, if the crazy war in Syria is stopped and Syrian refugees can return home.

East Europe was never Russian territory, but Crimean Peninsula was really Russian territory that was stolen by Ukrainian Communists (Khrushchev and his Ukrainian buddies) from the Russian people.

Soviet Union was an anti-Christian and anti-Russian state, Russian land (like Crimean Peninsula) was taken away from Russians during Soviet times, and this speaks volumes!

But today Russia is at last an Independent white Christian nation that is a friend of all Europeans around the world.


----------



## Art__Allm

Sbiker said:


> Do you mean, EU has a real democracy???? So, you mean, majority of European people are welcome to islamist migrants, terrorism and so on?



If European people are asked, they do Brexit. 

Swiss people were asked if they want to be part of the EU, and they said: fuck you!

The corrupt European politicians are more afraid of their own people than of Russians. 

Today they are afraid of Trump, too.



But most European Normies do not hate Putin or Trump, in fact they wish that they get such leaders, too.

The Globalists and their puppets are so desperate nowadays.

They are trying to demonize the Russian people and their elected President, they are busy instigating hate against Russia, but their warmongering does not have any effect: they cannot stampede the European nations into another fratricidal war, because most Europeans can see that Globalism and open border policy is a danger to them, not Russia.


----------



## Eloy

Sbiker said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin wants the European Union to fail so that he can once again conquer the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as well as Ukraine and maybe other states too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that he rather wanted to replace the US in Europe. As for the Ukraine crisis, I think that it is mostly a question of the military base in the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think, not
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin wants the European Union to fail so that he can once again conquer the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as well as Ukraine and maybe other states too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would say that he rather wanted to replace the US in Europe. As for the Ukraine crisis, I think that it is mostly a question of the military base in the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To replace US army in Europe - for what purpose? Shooting the islamists near the military bases and listening permanent whining about "how evil are Russians"?  What's the benefit of Russian army presence in EU in Euro?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our police can manage criminals of all religions and none. Our army is waiting for the Russians. Taking Crimea was a signal and it was reinforced by shooting down a plane with Dutch families on board while fomenting disorder in eastern Ukraine. We are saying to the Russians: ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ! Или подготовитесь к последствиям.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You'd better say "ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ" to Ukrainian terrorists - they all well known and regularily use russian in private  And they also have experience to strike civilian planes. Russia didn't stroke Matias Rust. Ukraine didn't have any doubts to strike Tu-154, flying to Tel-Aviv. They told, they don't have any "Buk" year ago? So, now they magically found them at their warehouses and now trying to threaten to Crimea by them...
> 
> You, "fluffy" united europeans already invaded into Russian territory in 1609, 1708, 1812, 1854, 1918, 1941... Welcome another times. We have enough territories for your graves. Offcourse, Russia is wild aggressor. Russia would attack every "fluffy" european or someone else at Russian territory. Sorry. But don't sing about "Russian aggression", enlargening NATO forces at Russian border in Baltic countries. We're a dangerous animal. We're always defend, when you attack us... ))
> 
> And we're already tired of Putin's peacefulness. You could listen any crazy propaganda you want, but stay away of Russian borders or lay in ground inside them... I think, it's a fair choice
> 
> > Или подготовитесь к последствиям.
> 
> Всегда готов!
Click to expand...

We have sufficient evidence that a Buk missile was brought across the border from Russia before flight MH17 was shot down. Telephone intercepts, photographs, and video implicate the Russians and all other possibilities were ruled-out.
MH17: Buk missile finding sets Russia and west at loggerheads

Of course, there is no free press in Russia and I suppose Putin produced alternative facts which the Russian people believe.




.


----------



## Eloy

Correll said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Vladimir Putin learned well as he trained to be a KGB agent how to find a weakness in his opponents and exploit it. An example is how he is managing the European Union parts of which rely on Russia for energy, such as Germany. He knows Germany and the Germans well, having been a secret agent in Dresden when Angela Merkel, who speaks fluent Russian, lived in the Deutsche Demokratische Republik (DDR).....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was painfully obvious that being dependent on the Russians for gas would give them leverage over the Europeans. We pointed that out to them.
> 
> That was not Putin being clever, that was the Europeans being stupid.
Click to expand...

Unlike the Americans, the European Union does not invade other countries to get natural resources.




.


----------



## Eloy

Art__Allm said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, Russia controlled half of Europe during Soviet times.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no independent Russia during the Soviet times, Russian Federation was just a Soviet Republic. Most Soviet leaders were not Russians, and Soviet Union was not created by Russians. Russians were a discriminated group in the anti-Christian  Soviet Union.
> 
> Here is what Churchill tells about the take over of power by the Bolsheviks in Russia.
> 
> 
> _*"From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognisable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire".
> Zionism versus Bolshevism - Wikisource, the free online library*_
> 
> Neither Trotzki, nor Stalin, nor Khrushchev were Russians. Khrushchev was an Ukrainian who "sold" the Russian Crimean Peninsula to his Ukrainian Commie buddies.
> 
> How stupid and ignorant must somebody be to confuse Russia and the Soviet Union?
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Europeans are very nervous that Putin sees eastern Europe as lost territory and he wants it returned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a BS!
> Europeans are nervous not because of Russians or Putin, but because their countries are flooded by Third World migrants who rape European women and destroy European culture.
> But this is not Putin's fault, this is the fault of warmongers who are waging crazy wars in the Middle  East, destroying functional states and replacing them wich anarchy.
> 
> In fact, Putin will do a good job, if the crazy war in Syria is stopped and Syrian refugees can return home.
> 
> East Europe was never Russian territory, but Crimean Peninsula was really Russian territory that was stolen by Ukrainian Communists (Khrushchev and his Ukrainian buddies) from the Russian people.
> 
> Soviet Union was an anti-Christian and anti-Russian state, Russian land (like Crimean Peninsula) was taken away from Russians during Soviet times, and this speaks volumes!
> 
> But today Russia is at last an Independent white Christian nation that is a friend of all Europeans around the world.
Click to expand...

Winston Churchill is no authority on understanding the Russians.
The principal so-called republic in the Soviet Union was Russia and the capital was Moscau.
Today the Russians speak of a Federation but we all know who we mean by the word Russians.




.


----------



## Sbiker

ESay said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xyz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-ISIS association demonstration
> 
> 
> 
> One of the worst looking Photoshop jobs I've ever seen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like that NSDAP sweatshirt? It is obvious you are in denial of reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It may well be that your reality exists in a parallel world. According to this site
> Россияне вышли на ''Марш мира'' (ФОТО)
> this foto was taken in Russia during a meeting against the war in Ukraine. Scroll down the page, this foto is thirteenth from the top.
Click to expand...


Offcourse, Russians don't want any war - it's a meeting of 2014 year, see a date. But Ukraine rezhime spits on our peaceful intentions from high tower. They use ballistic missiles to shoot...for whom? Poroshenko said "we force their children to sit in cellars" - the children of WHOM? Russian occupants? Does it means, Russian occupant soldiers invaded Ukraine with families and children? ) I admire of you ability to eat enormous lies, making poker face...


----------



## Sbiker

Art__Allm said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, Russia controlled half of Europe during Soviet times.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no independent Russia during the Soviet times, Russian Federation was just a Soviet Republic. Most Soviet leaders were not Russians, and Soviet Union was not created by Russians. Russians were a discriminated group in the anti-Christian  Soviet Union.
> 
> Here is what Churchill tells about the take over of power by the Bolsheviks in Russia.
> 
> 
> _*"From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognisable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire".
> Zionism versus Bolshevism - Wikisource, the free online library*_
> 
> Neither Trotzki, nor Stalin, nor Khrushchev were Russians. Khrushchev was an Ukrainian who "sold" the Russian Crimean Peninsula to his Ukrainian Commie buddies.
> 
> How stupid and ignorant must somebody be to confuse Russia and the Soviet Union?
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Europeans are very nervous that Putin sees eastern Europe as lost territory and he wants it returned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a BS!
> Europeans are nervous not because of Russians or Putin, but because their countries are flooded by Third World migrants who rape European women and destroy European culture.
> But this is not Putin's fault, this is the fault of warmongers who are waging crazy wars in the Middle  East, destroying functional states and replacing them wich anarchy.
> 
> In fact, Putin will do a good job, if the crazy war in Syria is stopped and Syrian refugees can return home.
> 
> East Europe was never Russian territory, but Crimean Peninsula was really Russian territory that was stolen by Ukrainian Communists (Khrushchev and his Ukrainian buddies) from the Russian people.
> 
> Soviet Union was an anti-Christian and anti-Russian state, Russian land (like Crimean Peninsula) was taken away from Russians during Soviet times, and this speaks volumes!
> 
> But today Russia is at last an Independent white Christian nation that is a friend of all Europeans around the world.
Click to expand...


You're completely right... In USSR, it seems, only Stalin had normal relations with Russian people (but pumping a Georgian economy). Khrushev plunders all Russia for Ukraine's profit. Brezhnev supplied Middle-Asian and Baltic republics, because of family relations... Almost all republic of USSR had more rich economics than Russia in a moment of USSR falling...


----------



## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin wants the European Union to fail so that he can once again conquer the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as well as Ukraine and maybe other states too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that he rather wanted to replace the US in Europe. As for the Ukraine crisis, I think that it is mostly a question of the military base in the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think, not
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin wants the European Union to fail so that he can once again conquer the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as well as Ukraine and maybe other states too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would say that he rather wanted to replace the US in Europe. As for the Ukraine crisis, I think that it is mostly a question of the military base in the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To replace US army in Europe - for what purpose? Shooting the islamists near the military bases and listening permanent whining about "how evil are Russians"?  What's the benefit of Russian army presence in EU in Euro?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our police can manage criminals of all religions and none. Our army is waiting for the Russians. Taking Crimea was a signal and it was reinforced by shooting down a plane with Dutch families on board while fomenting disorder in eastern Ukraine. We are saying to the Russians: ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ! Или подготовитесь к последствиям.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You'd better say "ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ" to Ukrainian terrorists - they all well known and regularily use russian in private  And they also have experience to strike civilian planes. Russia didn't stroke Matias Rust. Ukraine didn't have any doubts to strike Tu-154, flying to Tel-Aviv. They told, they don't have any "Buk" year ago? So, now they magically found them at their warehouses and now trying to threaten to Crimea by them...
> 
> You, "fluffy" united europeans already invaded into Russian territory in 1609, 1708, 1812, 1854, 1918, 1941... Welcome another times. We have enough territories for your graves. Offcourse, Russia is wild aggressor. Russia would attack every "fluffy" european or someone else at Russian territory. Sorry. But don't sing about "Russian aggression", enlargening NATO forces at Russian border in Baltic countries. We're a dangerous animal. We're always defend, when you attack us... ))
> 
> And we're already tired of Putin's peacefulness. You could listen any crazy propaganda you want, but stay away of Russian borders or lay in ground inside them... I think, it's a fair choice
> 
> > Или подготовитесь к последствиям.
> 
> Всегда готов!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We have sufficient evidence that a Buk missile was brought across the border from Russia before flight MH17 was shot down. Telephone intercepts, photographs, and video implicate the Russians and all other possibilities were ruled-out.
> MH17: Buk missile finding sets Russia and west at loggerheads
> 
> Of course, there is no free press in Russia and I suppose Putin produced alternative facts which the Russian people believe.
> 
> .
Click to expand...


Ok, ok 

Look at flightradar24 right now. ALL captains of planes are making hook to fly through Russian territory (clinging some of Rebels territory), where "they risk to be downed as MH17 by evil Russian will". No one flying through position of "brave and peaceful Ukrainian army, have no any relations to MH-17 tragedy". 

Do you mean, they all are clinical idiots?


----------



## Comrade Johnson

Eloy said:


> Our police can manage criminals of all religions and none. Our army is waiting for the Russians. Taking Crimea was a signal and it was reinforced by shooting down a plane with Dutch families on board while fomenting disorder in eastern Ukraine. We are saying to the Russians: ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ! Или подготовитесь к последствиям.
> .



I don't think that it depends on Russians. We are not able to make any important decisions. Yes, most of people support Puttin since he suppressed organized crime. But we cannot do antything with forein policy.


----------



## Eloy

Sbiker said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that he rather wanted to replace the US in Europe. As for the Ukraine crisis, I think that it is mostly a question of the military base in the Crimea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think, not
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that he rather wanted to replace the US in Europe. As for the Ukraine crisis, I think that it is mostly a question of the military base in the Crimea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To replace US army in Europe - for what purpose? Shooting the islamists near the military bases and listening permanent whining about "how evil are Russians"?  What's the benefit of Russian army presence in EU in Euro?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our police can manage criminals of all religions and none. Our army is waiting for the Russians. Taking Crimea was a signal and it was reinforced by shooting down a plane with Dutch families on board while fomenting disorder in eastern Ukraine. We are saying to the Russians: ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ! Или подготовитесь к последствиям.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You'd better say "ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ" to Ukrainian terrorists - they all well known and regularily use russian in private  And they also have experience to strike civilian planes. Russia didn't stroke Matias Rust. Ukraine didn't have any doubts to strike Tu-154, flying to Tel-Aviv. They told, they don't have any "Buk" year ago? So, now they magically found them at their warehouses and now trying to threaten to Crimea by them...
> 
> You, "fluffy" united europeans already invaded into Russian territory in 1609, 1708, 1812, 1854, 1918, 1941... Welcome another times. We have enough territories for your graves. Offcourse, Russia is wild aggressor. Russia would attack every "fluffy" european or someone else at Russian territory. Sorry. But don't sing about "Russian aggression", enlargening NATO forces at Russian border in Baltic countries. We're a dangerous animal. We're always defend, when you attack us... ))
> 
> And we're already tired of Putin's peacefulness. You could listen any crazy propaganda you want, but stay away of Russian borders or lay in ground inside them... I think, it's a fair choice
> 
> > Или подготовитесь к последствиям.
> 
> Всегда готов!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We have sufficient evidence that a Buk missile was brought across the border from Russia before flight MH17 was shot down. Telephone intercepts, photographs, and video implicate the Russians and all other possibilities were ruled-out.
> MH17: Buk missile finding sets Russia and west at loggerheads
> 
> Of course, there is no free press in Russia and I suppose Putin produced alternative facts which the Russian people believe.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, ok
> 
> Look at flightradar24 right now. ALL captains of planes are making hook to fly through Russian territory (clinging some of Rebels territory), where "they risk to be downed as MH17 by evil Russian will". No one flying through position of "brave and peaceful Ukrainian army, have no any relations to MH-17 tragedy".
> 
> Do you mean, they all are clinical idiots?
Click to expand...

Russia is supporting the Russian-speaking rebels in east Ukraine. Rebel commanders obey Russian orders or they are eliminated. Several rebel commanders were murdered in the past two years, the latest reported by *THE TIMES* on Thursday. "A notorious rebel commander in war torn east Ukraine was killed in an explosion in his office in the separatist stronghold of Donetsk yesterday. Mikhail Tolstykh, 36, better known as Givi, was the top commander in the pro-Russian Donetsk People's Republic. He was killed by a rocket fired from a portable missile launcher." (page 24) The word is the Kremlin was unhappy with him for being a rogue. The newspaper report explained that people in Ukraine were outraged when Russian state television broadcast images of Tolstykh mistreating prisoners. Bad publicity taken care of by some Putin operative.

This simmering civil war, once a convenience for Russia to use proxy rebels to stir-up trouble before Russian troops finally restore order by annexing east Ukraine. Putin seems to be getting the green light to restore order in Ukraine as only the Russians know how from Donald Trump who could not find Donetsk on a map if he tried. But Putin's friendship with the so-called American president does not give the Russian ex-KGB operative a guarantee that European Union battle groups are at full capacity and on alert. Watching with particular attention on Ukraine is the Visegrád Group, including troops from Poland.
Visegrad Group to develop military cooperation with Ukraine




.


----------



## Eloy

Comrade Johnson said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our police can manage criminals of all religions and none. Our army is waiting for the Russians. Taking Crimea was a signal and it was reinforced by shooting down a plane with Dutch families on board while fomenting disorder in eastern Ukraine. We are saying to the Russians: ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ! Или подготовитесь к последствиям.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think that it depends on Russians. We are not able to make any important decisions. Yes, most of people support Puttin since he suppressed organized crime. But we cannot do antything with forein policy.
Click to expand...

Putin runs a criminal government which has the hallmarks of organized crime. His ex-KGB friends are all in charge of state enterprises and they are pocketing billions of rubles for living the style of billionaire capitalists. If only the Russian people knew that they are living in a kleptocracy.




.


----------



## Comrade Johnson

Eloy said:


> Putin runs a criminal government which has the hallmarks of organized crime.




It's not that simple. 



> If only the Russian people knew that they are living in a kleptocracy.
> .



Of course, everybody here knows it.


----------



## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think, not
> To replace US army in Europe - for what purpose? Shooting the islamists near the military bases and listening permanent whining about "how evil are Russians"?  What's the benefit of Russian army presence in EU in Euro?
> 
> 
> 
> Our police can manage criminals of all religions and none. Our army is waiting for the Russians. Taking Crimea was a signal and it was reinforced by shooting down a plane with Dutch families on board while fomenting disorder in eastern Ukraine. We are saying to the Russians: ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ! Или подготовитесь к последствиям.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You'd better say "ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ" to Ukrainian terrorists - they all well known and regularily use russian in private  And they also have experience to strike civilian planes. Russia didn't stroke Matias Rust. Ukraine didn't have any doubts to strike Tu-154, flying to Tel-Aviv. They told, they don't have any "Buk" year ago? So, now they magically found them at their warehouses and now trying to threaten to Crimea by them...
> 
> You, "fluffy" united europeans already invaded into Russian territory in 1609, 1708, 1812, 1854, 1918, 1941... Welcome another times. We have enough territories for your graves. Offcourse, Russia is wild aggressor. Russia would attack every "fluffy" european or someone else at Russian territory. Sorry. But don't sing about "Russian aggression", enlargening NATO forces at Russian border in Baltic countries. We're a dangerous animal. We're always defend, when you attack us... ))
> 
> And we're already tired of Putin's peacefulness. You could listen any crazy propaganda you want, but stay away of Russian borders or lay in ground inside them... I think, it's a fair choice
> 
> > Или подготовитесь к последствиям.
> 
> Всегда готов!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We have sufficient evidence that a Buk missile was brought across the border from Russia before flight MH17 was shot down. Telephone intercepts, photographs, and video implicate the Russians and all other possibilities were ruled-out.
> MH17: Buk missile finding sets Russia and west at loggerheads
> 
> Of course, there is no free press in Russia and I suppose Putin produced alternative facts which the Russian people believe.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, ok
> 
> Look at flightradar24 right now. ALL captains of planes are making hook to fly through Russian territory (clinging some of Rebels territory), where "they risk to be downed as MH17 by evil Russian will". No one flying through position of "brave and peaceful Ukrainian army, have no any relations to MH-17 tragedy".
> 
> Do you mean, they all are clinical idiots?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia is supporting the Russian-speaking rebels in east Ukraine. Rebel commanders obey Russian orders or they are eliminated. Several rebel commanders were murdered in the past two years, the latest reported by *THE TIMES* on Thursday. "A notorious rebel commander in war torn east Ukraine was killed in an explosion in his office in the separatist stronghold of Donetsk yesterday. Mikhail Tolstykh, 36, better known as Givi, was the top commander in the pro-Russian Donetsk People's Republic. He was killed by a rocket fired from a portable missile launcher." (page 24) The word is the Kremlin was unhappy with him for being a rogue. The newspaper report explained that people in Ukraine were outraged when Russian state television broadcast images of Tolstykh mistreating prisoners. Bad publicity taken care of by some Putin operative.
> 
> This simmering civil war, once a convenience for Russia to use proxy rebels to stir-up trouble before Russian troops finally restore order by annexing east Ukraine. Putin seems to be getting the green light to restore order in Ukraine as only the Russians know how from Donald Trump who could not find Donetsk on a map if he tried. But Putin's friendship with the so-called American president does not give the Russian ex-KGB operative a guarantee that European Union battle groups are at full capacity and on alert. Watching with particular attention on Ukraine is the Visegrád Group, including troops from Poland.
> Visegrad Group to develop military cooperation with Ukraine
> 
> .
Click to expand...


That's a question to EU. In word you


Eloy said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think, not
> To replace US army in Europe - for what purpose? Shooting the islamists near the military bases and listening permanent whining about "how evil are Russians"?  What's the benefit of Russian army presence in EU in Euro?
> 
> 
> 
> Our police can manage criminals of all religions and none. Our army is waiting for the Russians. Taking Crimea was a signal and it was reinforced by shooting down a plane with Dutch families on board while fomenting disorder in eastern Ukraine. We are saying to the Russians: ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ! Или подготовитесь к последствиям.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You'd better say "ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ" to Ukrainian terrorists - they all well known and regularily use russian in private  And they also have experience to strike civilian planes. Russia didn't stroke Matias Rust. Ukraine didn't have any doubts to strike Tu-154, flying to Tel-Aviv. They told, they don't have any "Buk" year ago? So, now they magically found them at their warehouses and now trying to threaten to Crimea by them...
> 
> You, "fluffy" united europeans already invaded into Russian territory in 1609, 1708, 1812, 1854, 1918, 1941... Welcome another times. We have enough territories for your graves. Offcourse, Russia is wild aggressor. Russia would attack every "fluffy" european or someone else at Russian territory. Sorry. But don't sing about "Russian aggression", enlargening NATO forces at Russian border in Baltic countries. We're a dangerous animal. We're always defend, when you attack us... ))
> 
> And we're already tired of Putin's peacefulness. You could listen any crazy propaganda you want, but stay away of Russian borders or lay in ground inside them... I think, it's a fair choice
> 
> > Или подготовитесь к последствиям.
> 
> Всегда готов!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We have sufficient evidence that a Buk missile was brought across the border from Russia before flight MH17 was shot down. Telephone intercepts, photographs, and video implicate the Russians and all other possibilities were ruled-out.
> MH17: Buk missile finding sets Russia and west at loggerheads
> 
> Of course, there is no free press in Russia and I suppose Putin produced alternative facts which the Russian people believe.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, ok
> 
> Look at flightradar24 right now. ALL captains of planes are making hook to fly through Russian territory (clinging some of Rebels territory), where "they risk to be downed as MH17 by evil Russian will". No one flying through position of "brave and peaceful Ukrainian army, have no any relations to MH-17 tragedy".
> 
> Do you mean, they all are clinical idiots?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia is supporting the Russian-speaking rebels in east Ukraine. Rebel commanders obey Russian orders or they are eliminated. Several rebel commanders were murdered in the past two years, the latest reported by *THE TIMES* on Thursday. "A notorious rebel commander in war torn east Ukraine was killed in an explosion in his office in the separatist stronghold of Donetsk yesterday. Mikhail Tolstykh, 36, better known as Givi, was the top commander in the pro-Russian Donetsk People's Republic. He was killed by a rocket fired from a portable missile launcher." (page 24) The word is the Kremlin was unhappy with him for being a rogue. The newspaper report explained that people in Ukraine were outraged when Russian state television broadcast images of Tolstykh mistreating prisoners. Bad publicity taken care of by some Putin operative.
> 
> This simmering civil war, once a convenience for Russia to use proxy rebels to stir-up trouble before Russian troops finally restore order by annexing east Ukraine. Putin seems to be getting the green light to restore order in Ukraine as only the Russians know how from Donald Trump who could not find Donetsk on a map if he tried. But Putin's friendship with the so-called American president does not give the Russian ex-KGB operative a guarantee that European Union battle groups are at full capacity and on alert. Watching with particular attention on Ukraine is the Visegrád Group, including troops from Poland.
> Visegrad Group to develop military cooperation with Ukraine
> 
> .
Click to expand...


It's no question, why Russian people upkeeps people at Donbass. It's a question - why Europeans don't upkeep them? Ukraine performing ethnic cleansings, making nazi marches with torches and using nazi symbolic, murdering civilians - and you personally consider, it's normal for "democratic", "multi-culture" and "non-nazi" Europe? Great!

You're reading the Times, but do you know QUALITY of their articles? Givi was not top commander, but coloneul. Not in Donetsk, but in Makeevka. Murdered not by missile launcher, but by flamethrower. Kremlin said about him only they don't have any relations to it. If Kremlin chased Givi - the first step would the close Russian border for them - but Kremlin didn't it. About mistreating prisoners - it's a very non-comfortable topic both for Kremlin and Ukraine, because of Ukrainian forces widely using tortures of civilian, and Givi could do anything even in broadcasts, because the first question would be for SBU anyway...  
So, you could check all facts I've sounded through Internet


----------



## Eloy

Sbiker said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our police can manage criminals of all religions and none. Our army is waiting for the Russians. Taking Crimea was a signal and it was reinforced by shooting down a plane with Dutch families on board while fomenting disorder in eastern Ukraine. We are saying to the Russians: ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ! Или подготовитесь к последствиям.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'd better say "ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ" to Ukrainian terrorists - they all well known and regularily use russian in private  And they also have experience to strike civilian planes. Russia didn't stroke Matias Rust. Ukraine didn't have any doubts to strike Tu-154, flying to Tel-Aviv. They told, they don't have any "Buk" year ago? So, now they magically found them at their warehouses and now trying to threaten to Crimea by them...
> 
> You, "fluffy" united europeans already invaded into Russian territory in 1609, 1708, 1812, 1854, 1918, 1941... Welcome another times. We have enough territories for your graves. Offcourse, Russia is wild aggressor. Russia would attack every "fluffy" european or someone else at Russian territory. Sorry. But don't sing about "Russian aggression", enlargening NATO forces at Russian border in Baltic countries. We're a dangerous animal. We're always defend, when you attack us... ))
> 
> And we're already tired of Putin's peacefulness. You could listen any crazy propaganda you want, but stay away of Russian borders or lay in ground inside them... I think, it's a fair choice
> 
> > Или подготовитесь к последствиям.
> 
> Всегда готов!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We have sufficient evidence that a Buk missile was brought across the border from Russia before flight MH17 was shot down. Telephone intercepts, photographs, and video implicate the Russians and all other possibilities were ruled-out.
> MH17: Buk missile finding sets Russia and west at loggerheads
> 
> Of course, there is no free press in Russia and I suppose Putin produced alternative facts which the Russian people believe.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, ok
> 
> Look at flightradar24 right now. ALL captains of planes are making hook to fly through Russian territory (clinging some of Rebels territory), where "they risk to be downed as MH17 by evil Russian will". No one flying through position of "brave and peaceful Ukrainian army, have no any relations to MH-17 tragedy".
> 
> Do you mean, they all are clinical idiots?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia is supporting the Russian-speaking rebels in east Ukraine. Rebel commanders obey Russian orders or they are eliminated. Several rebel commanders were murdered in the past two years, the latest reported by *THE TIMES* on Thursday. "A notorious rebel commander in war torn east Ukraine was killed in an explosion in his office in the separatist stronghold of Donetsk yesterday. Mikhail Tolstykh, 36, better known as Givi, was the top commander in the pro-Russian Donetsk People's Republic. He was killed by a rocket fired from a portable missile launcher." (page 24) The word is the Kremlin was unhappy with him for being a rogue. The newspaper report explained that people in Ukraine were outraged when Russian state television broadcast images of Tolstykh mistreating prisoners. Bad publicity taken care of by some Putin operative.
> 
> This simmering civil war, once a convenience for Russia to use proxy rebels to stir-up trouble before Russian troops finally restore order by annexing east Ukraine. Putin seems to be getting the green light to restore order in Ukraine as only the Russians know how from Donald Trump who could not find Donetsk on a map if he tried. But Putin's friendship with the so-called American president does not give the Russian ex-KGB operative a guarantee that European Union battle groups are at full capacity and on alert. Watching with particular attention on Ukraine is the Visegrád Group, including troops from Poland.
> Visegrad Group to develop military cooperation with Ukraine
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a question to EU. In word you
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our police can manage criminals of all religions and none. Our army is waiting for the Russians. Taking Crimea was a signal and it was reinforced by shooting down a plane with Dutch families on board while fomenting disorder in eastern Ukraine. We are saying to the Russians: ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ! Или подготовитесь к последствиям.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You'd better say "ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ" to Ukrainian terrorists - they all well known and regularily use russian in private  And they also have experience to strike civilian planes. Russia didn't stroke Matias Rust. Ukraine didn't have any doubts to strike Tu-154, flying to Tel-Aviv. They told, they don't have any "Buk" year ago? So, now they magically found them at their warehouses and now trying to threaten to Crimea by them...
> 
> You, "fluffy" united europeans already invaded into Russian territory in 1609, 1708, 1812, 1854, 1918, 1941... Welcome another times. We have enough territories for your graves. Offcourse, Russia is wild aggressor. Russia would attack every "fluffy" european or someone else at Russian territory. Sorry. But don't sing about "Russian aggression", enlargening NATO forces at Russian border in Baltic countries. We're a dangerous animal. We're always defend, when you attack us... ))
> 
> And we're already tired of Putin's peacefulness. You could listen any crazy propaganda you want, but stay away of Russian borders or lay in ground inside them... I think, it's a fair choice
> 
> > Или подготовитесь к последствиям.
> 
> Всегда готов!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We have sufficient evidence that a Buk missile was brought across the border from Russia before flight MH17 was shot down. Telephone intercepts, photographs, and video implicate the Russians and all other possibilities were ruled-out.
> MH17: Buk missile finding sets Russia and west at loggerheads
> 
> Of course, there is no free press in Russia and I suppose Putin produced alternative facts which the Russian people believe.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, ok
> 
> Look at flightradar24 right now. ALL captains of planes are making hook to fly through Russian territory (clinging some of Rebels territory), where "they risk to be downed as MH17 by evil Russian will". No one flying through position of "brave and peaceful Ukrainian army, have no any relations to MH-17 tragedy".
> 
> Do you mean, they all are clinical idiots?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia is supporting the Russian-speaking rebels in east Ukraine. Rebel commanders obey Russian orders or they are eliminated. Several rebel commanders were murdered in the past two years, the latest reported by *THE TIMES* on Thursday. "A notorious rebel commander in war torn east Ukraine was killed in an explosion in his office in the separatist stronghold of Donetsk yesterday. Mikhail Tolstykh, 36, better known as Givi, was the top commander in the pro-Russian Donetsk People's Republic. He was killed by a rocket fired from a portable missile launcher." (page 24) The word is the Kremlin was unhappy with him for being a rogue. The newspaper report explained that people in Ukraine were outraged when Russian state television broadcast images of Tolstykh mistreating prisoners. Bad publicity taken care of by some Putin operative.
> 
> This simmering civil war, once a convenience for Russia to use proxy rebels to stir-up trouble before Russian troops finally restore order by annexing east Ukraine. Putin seems to be getting the green light to restore order in Ukraine as only the Russians know how from Donald Trump who could not find Donetsk on a map if he tried. But Putin's friendship with the so-called American president does not give the Russian ex-KGB operative a guarantee that European Union battle groups are at full capacity and on alert. Watching with particular attention on Ukraine is the Visegrád Group, including troops from Poland.
> Visegrad Group to develop military cooperation with Ukraine
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's no question, why Russian people upkeeps people at Donbass. It's a question - why Europeans don't upkeep them? Ukraine performing ethnic cleansings, making nazi marches with torches and using nazi symbolic, murdering civilians - and you personally consider, it's normal for "democratic", "multi-culture" and "non-nazi" Europe? Great!
> 
> You're reading the Times, but do you know QUALITY of their articles? Givi was not top commander, but coloneul. Not in Donetsk, but in Makeevka. Murdered not by missile launcher, but by flamethrower. Kremlin said about him only they don't have any relations to it. If Kremlin chased Givi - the first step would the close Russian border for them - but Kremlin didn't it. About mistreating prisoners - it's a very non-comfortable topic both for Kremlin and Ukraine, because of Ukrainian forces widely using tortures of civilian, and Givi could do anything even in broadcasts, because the first question would be for SBU anyway...
> So, you could check all facts I've sounded through Internet
Click to expand...

Sorry to inform you but the internet is full of Russian *FAKE NEWS*.
If it is in *THE TIMES* then it is true.




.


----------



## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> You'd better say "ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ" to Ukrainian terrorists - they all well known and regularily use russian in private  And they also have experience to strike civilian planes. Russia didn't stroke Matias Rust. Ukraine didn't have any doubts to strike Tu-154, flying to Tel-Aviv. They told, they don't have any "Buk" year ago? So, now they magically found them at their warehouses and now trying to threaten to Crimea by them...
> 
> You, "fluffy" united europeans already invaded into Russian territory in 1609, 1708, 1812, 1854, 1918, 1941... Welcome another times. We have enough territories for your graves. Offcourse, Russia is wild aggressor. Russia would attack every "fluffy" european or someone else at Russian territory. Sorry. But don't sing about "Russian aggression", enlargening NATO forces at Russian border in Baltic countries. We're a dangerous animal. We're always defend, when you attack us... ))
> 
> And we're already tired of Putin's peacefulness. You could listen any crazy propaganda you want, but stay away of Russian borders or lay in ground inside them... I think, it's a fair choice
> 
> > Или подготовитесь к последствиям.
> 
> Всегда готов!
> 
> 
> 
> We have sufficient evidence that a Buk missile was brought across the border from Russia before flight MH17 was shot down. Telephone intercepts, photographs, and video implicate the Russians and all other possibilities were ruled-out.
> MH17: Buk missile finding sets Russia and west at loggerheads
> 
> Of course, there is no free press in Russia and I suppose Putin produced alternative facts which the Russian people believe.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, ok
> 
> Look at flightradar24 right now. ALL captains of planes are making hook to fly through Russian territory (clinging some of Rebels territory), where "they risk to be downed as MH17 by evil Russian will". No one flying through position of "brave and peaceful Ukrainian army, have no any relations to MH-17 tragedy".
> 
> Do you mean, they all are clinical idiots?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia is supporting the Russian-speaking rebels in east Ukraine. Rebel commanders obey Russian orders or they are eliminated. Several rebel commanders were murdered in the past two years, the latest reported by *THE TIMES* on Thursday. "A notorious rebel commander in war torn east Ukraine was killed in an explosion in his office in the separatist stronghold of Donetsk yesterday. Mikhail Tolstykh, 36, better known as Givi, was the top commander in the pro-Russian Donetsk People's Republic. He was killed by a rocket fired from a portable missile launcher." (page 24) The word is the Kremlin was unhappy with him for being a rogue. The newspaper report explained that people in Ukraine were outraged when Russian state television broadcast images of Tolstykh mistreating prisoners. Bad publicity taken care of by some Putin operative.
> 
> This simmering civil war, once a convenience for Russia to use proxy rebels to stir-up trouble before Russian troops finally restore order by annexing east Ukraine. Putin seems to be getting the green light to restore order in Ukraine as only the Russians know how from Donald Trump who could not find Donetsk on a map if he tried. But Putin's friendship with the so-called American president does not give the Russian ex-KGB operative a guarantee that European Union battle groups are at full capacity and on alert. Watching with particular attention on Ukraine is the Visegrád Group, including troops from Poland.
> Visegrad Group to develop military cooperation with Ukraine
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a question to EU. In word you
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> You'd better say "ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ" to Ukrainian terrorists - they all well known and regularily use russian in private  And they also have experience to strike civilian planes. Russia didn't stroke Matias Rust. Ukraine didn't have any doubts to strike Tu-154, flying to Tel-Aviv. They told, they don't have any "Buk" year ago? So, now they magically found them at their warehouses and now trying to threaten to Crimea by them...
> 
> You, "fluffy" united europeans already invaded into Russian territory in 1609, 1708, 1812, 1854, 1918, 1941... Welcome another times. We have enough territories for your graves. Offcourse, Russia is wild aggressor. Russia would attack every "fluffy" european or someone else at Russian territory. Sorry. But don't sing about "Russian aggression", enlargening NATO forces at Russian border in Baltic countries. We're a dangerous animal. We're always defend, when you attack us... ))
> 
> And we're already tired of Putin's peacefulness. You could listen any crazy propaganda you want, but stay away of Russian borders or lay in ground inside them... I think, it's a fair choice
> 
> > Или подготовитесь к последствиям.
> 
> Всегда готов!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We have sufficient evidence that a Buk missile was brought across the border from Russia before flight MH17 was shot down. Telephone intercepts, photographs, and video implicate the Russians and all other possibilities were ruled-out.
> MH17: Buk missile finding sets Russia and west at loggerheads
> 
> Of course, there is no free press in Russia and I suppose Putin produced alternative facts which the Russian people believe.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, ok
> 
> Look at flightradar24 right now. ALL captains of planes are making hook to fly through Russian territory (clinging some of Rebels territory), where "they risk to be downed as MH17 by evil Russian will". No one flying through position of "brave and peaceful Ukrainian army, have no any relations to MH-17 tragedy".
> 
> Do you mean, they all are clinical idiots?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia is supporting the Russian-speaking rebels in east Ukraine. Rebel commanders obey Russian orders or they are eliminated. Several rebel commanders were murdered in the past two years, the latest reported by *THE TIMES* on Thursday. "A notorious rebel commander in war torn east Ukraine was killed in an explosion in his office in the separatist stronghold of Donetsk yesterday. Mikhail Tolstykh, 36, better known as Givi, was the top commander in the pro-Russian Donetsk People's Republic. He was killed by a rocket fired from a portable missile launcher." (page 24) The word is the Kremlin was unhappy with him for being a rogue. The newspaper report explained that people in Ukraine were outraged when Russian state television broadcast images of Tolstykh mistreating prisoners. Bad publicity taken care of by some Putin operative.
> 
> This simmering civil war, once a convenience for Russia to use proxy rebels to stir-up trouble before Russian troops finally restore order by annexing east Ukraine. Putin seems to be getting the green light to restore order in Ukraine as only the Russians know how from Donald Trump who could not find Donetsk on a map if he tried. But Putin's friendship with the so-called American president does not give the Russian ex-KGB operative a guarantee that European Union battle groups are at full capacity and on alert. Watching with particular attention on Ukraine is the Visegrád Group, including troops from Poland.
> Visegrad Group to develop military cooperation with Ukraine
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's no question, why Russian people upkeeps people at Donbass. It's a question - why Europeans don't upkeep them? Ukraine performing ethnic cleansings, making nazi marches with torches and using nazi symbolic, murdering civilians - and you personally consider, it's normal for "democratic", "multi-culture" and "non-nazi" Europe? Great!
> 
> You're reading the Times, but do you know QUALITY of their articles? Givi was not top commander, but coloneul. Not in Donetsk, but in Makeevka. Murdered not by missile launcher, but by flamethrower. Kremlin said about him only they don't have any relations to it. If Kremlin chased Givi - the first step would the close Russian border for them - but Kremlin didn't it. About mistreating prisoners - it's a very non-comfortable topic both for Kremlin and Ukraine, because of Ukrainian forces widely using tortures of civilian, and Givi could do anything even in broadcasts, because the first question would be for SBU anyway...
> So, you could check all facts I've sounded through Internet
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry to inform you but the internet is full of Russian *FAKE NEWS*.
> If it is in *THE TIMES* then it is true.
> 
> .
Click to expand...


I understand - it's much more comfortable to you to declare Internet full of fake Russian news, than to feel as one of assisting offenders of nazi, burned alive civilian people in Odessa. Ok, it's your "civil" position, but why do you whining about "Russian threat"? It's only your choice to help nazi, or not to help.


----------



## Eloy

Sbiker said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have sufficient evidence that a Buk missile was brought across the border from Russia before flight MH17 was shot down. Telephone intercepts, photographs, and video implicate the Russians and all other possibilities were ruled-out.
> MH17: Buk missile finding sets Russia and west at loggerheads
> 
> Of course, there is no free press in Russia and I suppose Putin produced alternative facts which the Russian people believe.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, ok
> 
> Look at flightradar24 right now. ALL captains of planes are making hook to fly through Russian territory (clinging some of Rebels territory), where "they risk to be downed as MH17 by evil Russian will". No one flying through position of "brave and peaceful Ukrainian army, have no any relations to MH-17 tragedy".
> 
> Do you mean, they all are clinical idiots?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia is supporting the Russian-speaking rebels in east Ukraine. Rebel commanders obey Russian orders or they are eliminated. Several rebel commanders were murdered in the past two years, the latest reported by *THE TIMES* on Thursday. "A notorious rebel commander in war torn east Ukraine was killed in an explosion in his office in the separatist stronghold of Donetsk yesterday. Mikhail Tolstykh, 36, better known as Givi, was the top commander in the pro-Russian Donetsk People's Republic. He was killed by a rocket fired from a portable missile launcher." (page 24) The word is the Kremlin was unhappy with him for being a rogue. The newspaper report explained that people in Ukraine were outraged when Russian state television broadcast images of Tolstykh mistreating prisoners. Bad publicity taken care of by some Putin operative.
> 
> This simmering civil war, once a convenience for Russia to use proxy rebels to stir-up trouble before Russian troops finally restore order by annexing east Ukraine. Putin seems to be getting the green light to restore order in Ukraine as only the Russians know how from Donald Trump who could not find Donetsk on a map if he tried. But Putin's friendship with the so-called American president does not give the Russian ex-KGB operative a guarantee that European Union battle groups are at full capacity and on alert. Watching with particular attention on Ukraine is the Visegrád Group, including troops from Poland.
> Visegrad Group to develop military cooperation with Ukraine
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a question to EU. In word you
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have sufficient evidence that a Buk missile was brought across the border from Russia before flight MH17 was shot down. Telephone intercepts, photographs, and video implicate the Russians and all other possibilities were ruled-out.
> MH17: Buk missile finding sets Russia and west at loggerheads
> 
> Of course, there is no free press in Russia and I suppose Putin produced alternative facts which the Russian people believe.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, ok
> 
> Look at flightradar24 right now. ALL captains of planes are making hook to fly through Russian territory (clinging some of Rebels territory), where "they risk to be downed as MH17 by evil Russian will". No one flying through position of "brave and peaceful Ukrainian army, have no any relations to MH-17 tragedy".
> 
> Do you mean, they all are clinical idiots?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia is supporting the Russian-speaking rebels in east Ukraine. Rebel commanders obey Russian orders or they are eliminated. Several rebel commanders were murdered in the past two years, the latest reported by *THE TIMES* on Thursday. "A notorious rebel commander in war torn east Ukraine was killed in an explosion in his office in the separatist stronghold of Donetsk yesterday. Mikhail Tolstykh, 36, better known as Givi, was the top commander in the pro-Russian Donetsk People's Republic. He was killed by a rocket fired from a portable missile launcher." (page 24) The word is the Kremlin was unhappy with him for being a rogue. The newspaper report explained that people in Ukraine were outraged when Russian state television broadcast images of Tolstykh mistreating prisoners. Bad publicity taken care of by some Putin operative.
> 
> This simmering civil war, once a convenience for Russia to use proxy rebels to stir-up trouble before Russian troops finally restore order by annexing east Ukraine. Putin seems to be getting the green light to restore order in Ukraine as only the Russians know how from Donald Trump who could not find Donetsk on a map if he tried. But Putin's friendship with the so-called American president does not give the Russian ex-KGB operative a guarantee that European Union battle groups are at full capacity and on alert. Watching with particular attention on Ukraine is the Visegrád Group, including troops from Poland.
> Visegrad Group to develop military cooperation with Ukraine
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's no question, why Russian people upkeeps people at Donbass. It's a question - why Europeans don't upkeep them? Ukraine performing ethnic cleansings, making nazi marches with torches and using nazi symbolic, murdering civilians - and you personally consider, it's normal for "democratic", "multi-culture" and "non-nazi" Europe? Great!
> 
> You're reading the Times, but do you know QUALITY of their articles? Givi was not top commander, but coloneul. Not in Donetsk, but in Makeevka. Murdered not by missile launcher, but by flamethrower. Kremlin said about him only they don't have any relations to it. If Kremlin chased Givi - the first step would the close Russian border for them - but Kremlin didn't it. About mistreating prisoners - it's a very non-comfortable topic both for Kremlin and Ukraine, because of Ukrainian forces widely using tortures of civilian, and Givi could do anything even in broadcasts, because the first question would be for SBU anyway...
> So, you could check all facts I've sounded through Internet
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry to inform you but the internet is full of Russian *FAKE NEWS*.
> If it is in *THE TIMES* then it is true.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand - it's much more comfortable to you to declare Internet full of fake Russian news, than to feel as one of assisting offenders of nazi, burned alive civilian people in Odessa. Ok, it's your "civil" position, but why do you whining about "Russian threat"? It's only your choice to help nazi, or not to help.
Click to expand...

We know that the Russians annexed Crimea and are involved in east Ukraine.
Putin has gone too far and is an outlaw.




.


----------



## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, ok
> 
> Look at flightradar24 right now. ALL captains of planes are making hook to fly through Russian territory (clinging some of Rebels territory), where "they risk to be downed as MH17 by evil Russian will". No one flying through position of "brave and peaceful Ukrainian army, have no any relations to MH-17 tragedy".
> 
> Do you mean, they all are clinical idiots?
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is supporting the Russian-speaking rebels in east Ukraine. Rebel commanders obey Russian orders or they are eliminated. Several rebel commanders were murdered in the past two years, the latest reported by *THE TIMES* on Thursday. "A notorious rebel commander in war torn east Ukraine was killed in an explosion in his office in the separatist stronghold of Donetsk yesterday. Mikhail Tolstykh, 36, better known as Givi, was the top commander in the pro-Russian Donetsk People's Republic. He was killed by a rocket fired from a portable missile launcher." (page 24) The word is the Kremlin was unhappy with him for being a rogue. The newspaper report explained that people in Ukraine were outraged when Russian state television broadcast images of Tolstykh mistreating prisoners. Bad publicity taken care of by some Putin operative.
> 
> This simmering civil war, once a convenience for Russia to use proxy rebels to stir-up trouble before Russian troops finally restore order by annexing east Ukraine. Putin seems to be getting the green light to restore order in Ukraine as only the Russians know how from Donald Trump who could not find Donetsk on a map if he tried. But Putin's friendship with the so-called American president does not give the Russian ex-KGB operative a guarantee that European Union battle groups are at full capacity and on alert. Watching with particular attention on Ukraine is the Visegrád Group, including troops from Poland.
> Visegrad Group to develop military cooperation with Ukraine
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a question to EU. In word you
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, ok
> 
> Look at flightradar24 right now. ALL captains of planes are making hook to fly through Russian territory (clinging some of Rebels territory), where "they risk to be downed as MH17 by evil Russian will". No one flying through position of "brave and peaceful Ukrainian army, have no any relations to MH-17 tragedy".
> 
> Do you mean, they all are clinical idiots?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia is supporting the Russian-speaking rebels in east Ukraine. Rebel commanders obey Russian orders or they are eliminated. Several rebel commanders were murdered in the past two years, the latest reported by *THE TIMES* on Thursday. "A notorious rebel commander in war torn east Ukraine was killed in an explosion in his office in the separatist stronghold of Donetsk yesterday. Mikhail Tolstykh, 36, better known as Givi, was the top commander in the pro-Russian Donetsk People's Republic. He was killed by a rocket fired from a portable missile launcher." (page 24) The word is the Kremlin was unhappy with him for being a rogue. The newspaper report explained that people in Ukraine were outraged when Russian state television broadcast images of Tolstykh mistreating prisoners. Bad publicity taken care of by some Putin operative.
> 
> This simmering civil war, once a convenience for Russia to use proxy rebels to stir-up trouble before Russian troops finally restore order by annexing east Ukraine. Putin seems to be getting the green light to restore order in Ukraine as only the Russians know how from Donald Trump who could not find Donetsk on a map if he tried. But Putin's friendship with the so-called American president does not give the Russian ex-KGB operative a guarantee that European Union battle groups are at full capacity and on alert. Watching with particular attention on Ukraine is the Visegrád Group, including troops from Poland.
> Visegrad Group to develop military cooperation with Ukraine
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's no question, why Russian people upkeeps people at Donbass. It's a question - why Europeans don't upkeep them? Ukraine performing ethnic cleansings, making nazi marches with torches and using nazi symbolic, murdering civilians - and you personally consider, it's normal for "democratic", "multi-culture" and "non-nazi" Europe? Great!
> 
> You're reading the Times, but do you know QUALITY of their articles? Givi was not top commander, but coloneul. Not in Donetsk, but in Makeevka. Murdered not by missile launcher, but by flamethrower. Kremlin said about him only they don't have any relations to it. If Kremlin chased Givi - the first step would the close Russian border for them - but Kremlin didn't it. About mistreating prisoners - it's a very non-comfortable topic both for Kremlin and Ukraine, because of Ukrainian forces widely using tortures of civilian, and Givi could do anything even in broadcasts, because the first question would be for SBU anyway...
> So, you could check all facts I've sounded through Internet
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry to inform you but the internet is full of Russian *FAKE NEWS*.
> If it is in *THE TIMES* then it is true.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand - it's much more comfortable to you to declare Internet full of fake Russian news, than to feel as one of assisting offenders of nazi, burned alive civilian people in Odessa. Ok, it's your "civil" position, but why do you whining about "Russian threat"? It's only your choice to help nazi, or not to help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We know that the Russians annexed Crimea and are involved in east Ukraine.
> Putin has gone too far and is an outlaw.
> 
> .
Click to expand...


Being outlaw for the laws of nazi is a valour... )

But wait. If Putin outlaw - point me a judgement of any court of EU, made him outlaw. Claiming Putin as outlaw without judgement - you're distributing a slander... 

If you consider the will of Crimea people to join with Russia unlawful - return the Kosovo to Serbia first )


----------



## Eloy

Sbiker said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is supporting the Russian-speaking rebels in east Ukraine. Rebel commanders obey Russian orders or they are eliminated. Several rebel commanders were murdered in the past two years, the latest reported by *THE TIMES* on Thursday. "A notorious rebel commander in war torn east Ukraine was killed in an explosion in his office in the separatist stronghold of Donetsk yesterday. Mikhail Tolstykh, 36, better known as Givi, was the top commander in the pro-Russian Donetsk People's Republic. He was killed by a rocket fired from a portable missile launcher." (page 24) The word is the Kremlin was unhappy with him for being a rogue. The newspaper report explained that people in Ukraine were outraged when Russian state television broadcast images of Tolstykh mistreating prisoners. Bad publicity taken care of by some Putin operative.
> 
> This simmering civil war, once a convenience for Russia to use proxy rebels to stir-up trouble before Russian troops finally restore order by annexing east Ukraine. Putin seems to be getting the green light to restore order in Ukraine as only the Russians know how from Donald Trump who could not find Donetsk on a map if he tried. But Putin's friendship with the so-called American president does not give the Russian ex-KGB operative a guarantee that European Union battle groups are at full capacity and on alert. Watching with particular attention on Ukraine is the Visegrád Group, including troops from Poland.
> Visegrad Group to develop military cooperation with Ukraine
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a question to EU. In word you
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is supporting the Russian-speaking rebels in east Ukraine. Rebel commanders obey Russian orders or they are eliminated. Several rebel commanders were murdered in the past two years, the latest reported by *THE TIMES* on Thursday. "A notorious rebel commander in war torn east Ukraine was killed in an explosion in his office in the separatist stronghold of Donetsk yesterday. Mikhail Tolstykh, 36, better known as Givi, was the top commander in the pro-Russian Donetsk People's Republic. He was killed by a rocket fired from a portable missile launcher." (page 24) The word is the Kremlin was unhappy with him for being a rogue. The newspaper report explained that people in Ukraine were outraged when Russian state television broadcast images of Tolstykh mistreating prisoners. Bad publicity taken care of by some Putin operative.
> 
> This simmering civil war, once a convenience for Russia to use proxy rebels to stir-up trouble before Russian troops finally restore order by annexing east Ukraine. Putin seems to be getting the green light to restore order in Ukraine as only the Russians know how from Donald Trump who could not find Donetsk on a map if he tried. But Putin's friendship with the so-called American president does not give the Russian ex-KGB operative a guarantee that European Union battle groups are at full capacity and on alert. Watching with particular attention on Ukraine is the Visegrád Group, including troops from Poland.
> Visegrad Group to develop military cooperation with Ukraine
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's no question, why Russian people upkeeps people at Donbass. It's a question - why Europeans don't upkeep them? Ukraine performing ethnic cleansings, making nazi marches with torches and using nazi symbolic, murdering civilians - and you personally consider, it's normal for "democratic", "multi-culture" and "non-nazi" Europe? Great!
> 
> You're reading the Times, but do you know QUALITY of their articles? Givi was not top commander, but coloneul. Not in Donetsk, but in Makeevka. Murdered not by missile launcher, but by flamethrower. Kremlin said about him only they don't have any relations to it. If Kremlin chased Givi - the first step would the close Russian border for them - but Kremlin didn't it. About mistreating prisoners - it's a very non-comfortable topic both for Kremlin and Ukraine, because of Ukrainian forces widely using tortures of civilian, and Givi could do anything even in broadcasts, because the first question would be for SBU anyway...
> So, you could check all facts I've sounded through Internet
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry to inform you but the internet is full of Russian *FAKE NEWS*.
> If it is in *THE TIMES* then it is true.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand - it's much more comfortable to you to declare Internet full of fake Russian news, than to feel as one of assisting offenders of nazi, burned alive civilian people in Odessa. Ok, it's your "civil" position, but why do you whining about "Russian threat"? It's only your choice to help nazi, or not to help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We know that the Russians annexed Crimea and are involved in east Ukraine.
> Putin has gone too far and is an outlaw.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Being outlaw for the laws of nazi is a valour... )
> 
> But wait. If Putin outlaw - point me a judgement of any court of EU, made him outlaw. Claiming Putin as outlaw without judgement - you're distributing a slander...
> 
> If you consider the will of Crimea people to join with Russia unlawful - return the Kosovo to Serbia first )
Click to expand...

The law Putin violated is international. Taking Crimea was *making war* which was outlawed by Russia and the other allies in Nürnberg in 1945.




.


----------



## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a question to EU. In word you
> It's no question, why Russian people upkeeps people at Donbass. It's a question - why Europeans don't upkeep them? Ukraine performing ethnic cleansings, making nazi marches with torches and using nazi symbolic, murdering civilians - and you personally consider, it's normal for "democratic", "multi-culture" and "non-nazi" Europe? Great!
> 
> You're reading the Times, but do you know QUALITY of their articles? Givi was not top commander, but coloneul. Not in Donetsk, but in Makeevka. Murdered not by missile launcher, but by flamethrower. Kremlin said about him only they don't have any relations to it. If Kremlin chased Givi - the first step would the close Russian border for them - but Kremlin didn't it. About mistreating prisoners - it's a very non-comfortable topic both for Kremlin and Ukraine, because of Ukrainian forces widely using tortures of civilian, and Givi could do anything even in broadcasts, because the first question would be for SBU anyway...
> So, you could check all facts I've sounded through Internet
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to inform you but the internet is full of Russian *FAKE NEWS*.
> If it is in *THE TIMES* then it is true.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand - it's much more comfortable to you to declare Internet full of fake Russian news, than to feel as one of assisting offenders of nazi, burned alive civilian people in Odessa. Ok, it's your "civil" position, but why do you whining about "Russian threat"? It's only your choice to help nazi, or not to help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We know that the Russians annexed Crimea and are involved in east Ukraine.
> Putin has gone too far and is an outlaw.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Being outlaw for the laws of nazi is a valour... )
> 
> But wait. If Putin outlaw - point me a judgement of any court of EU, made him outlaw. Claiming Putin as outlaw without judgement - you're distributing a slander...
> 
> If you consider the will of Crimea people to join with Russia unlawful - return the Kosovo to Serbia first )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The law Putin violated is international. Taking Crimea was *making war* which was outlawed by Russia and the other allies in Nürnberg in 1945.
> 
> .
Click to expand...


Without number of document, where Putin judged as criminal - you just repeating the propaganda... All your words are absolutely NAKED, like a king from a tale of H.C. Andersen ))

Eloy, as your profile said - you're a teacher... Just switch on a logic, stop translate a stupid propaganda like a bot! Don't believe in me, don't believe in anything, but think self-contained! Wake up! Re-read Orwell! 

Joining Crimea in Russia - you could name it how you want - absolutely LEGAL after KOSOVO precedent. Russia follows ALL international laws, not to choose "good" or "bad". But while Russia tried to solve all international problems by law way, EU tries to claim brute force like a main law. Ok, Russia ready for this variant too... Is it really terrible for current infantile Europe to understand - all choices your could made - completely in your hands?


----------



## Eloy

Sbiker said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to inform you but the internet is full of Russian *FAKE NEWS*.
> If it is in *THE TIMES* then it is true.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand - it's much more comfortable to you to declare Internet full of fake Russian news, than to feel as one of assisting offenders of nazi, burned alive civilian people in Odessa. Ok, it's your "civil" position, but why do you whining about "Russian threat"? It's only your choice to help nazi, or not to help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We know that the Russians annexed Crimea and are involved in east Ukraine.
> Putin has gone too far and is an outlaw.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Being outlaw for the laws of nazi is a valour... )
> 
> But wait. If Putin outlaw - point me a judgement of any court of EU, made him outlaw. Claiming Putin as outlaw without judgement - you're distributing a slander...
> 
> If you consider the will of Crimea people to join with Russia unlawful - return the Kosovo to Serbia first )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The law Putin violated is international. Taking Crimea was *making war* which was outlawed by Russia and the other allies in Nürnberg in 1945.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Without number of document, where Putin judged as criminal - you just repeating the propaganda... All your words are absolutely NAKED, like a king from a tale of H.C. Andersen ))
> 
> Eloy, as your profile said - you're a teacher... Just switch on a logic, stop translate a stupid propaganda like a bot! Don't believe in me, don't believe in anything, but think self-contained! Wake up! Re-read Orwell!
> 
> Joining Crimea in Russia - you could name it how you want - absolutely LEGAL after KOSOVO precedent. Russia follows ALL international laws, not to choose "good" or "bad". But while Russia tried to solve all international problems by law way, EU tries to claim brute force like a main law. Ok, Russia ready for this variant too... Is it really terrible for current infantile Europe to understand - all choices your could made - completely in your hands?
Click to expand...

You want a document that determined Putin was guilty of making war.
I told you that the crime of waging war was specified at Nürnberg in 1945.
Also known as the crime of aggression, crimes against peace formed the first charge against the Nazis in the 1945 Charter of the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg. The charter defined them as “planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression, or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances, or participation in a common plan or conspiracy [to do so].”
Crimes of War   –  Crimes against Peace
The documents of the court are available at the Harvard Library:
Nuremberg -  Document Search Results

By planning and invading Crimea which was part of the sovereign country of Ukraine, Putin is guilty.




.


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## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand - it's much more comfortable to you to declare Internet full of fake Russian news, than to feel as one of assisting offenders of nazi, burned alive civilian people in Odessa. Ok, it's your "civil" position, but why do you whining about "Russian threat"? It's only your choice to help nazi, or not to help.
> 
> 
> 
> We know that the Russians annexed Crimea and are involved in east Ukraine.
> Putin has gone too far and is an outlaw.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Being outlaw for the laws of nazi is a valour... )
> 
> But wait. If Putin outlaw - point me a judgement of any court of EU, made him outlaw. Claiming Putin as outlaw without judgement - you're distributing a slander...
> 
> If you consider the will of Crimea people to join with Russia unlawful - return the Kosovo to Serbia first )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The law Putin violated is international. Taking Crimea was *making war* which was outlawed by Russia and the other allies in Nürnberg in 1945.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Without number of document, where Putin judged as criminal - you just repeating the propaganda... All your words are absolutely NAKED, like a king from a tale of H.C. Andersen ))
> 
> Eloy, as your profile said - you're a teacher... Just switch on a logic, stop translate a stupid propaganda like a bot! Don't believe in me, don't believe in anything, but think self-contained! Wake up! Re-read Orwell!
> 
> Joining Crimea in Russia - you could name it how you want - absolutely LEGAL after KOSOVO precedent. Russia follows ALL international laws, not to choose "good" or "bad". But while Russia tried to solve all international problems by law way, EU tries to claim brute force like a main law. Ok, Russia ready for this variant too... Is it really terrible for current infantile Europe to understand - all choices your could made - completely in your hands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You want a document that determined Putin was guilty of making war.
> I told you that the crime of waging war was specified at Nürnberg in 1945.
> Also known as the crime of aggression, crimes against peace formed the first charge against the Nazis in the 1945 Charter of the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg. The charter defined them as “planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression, or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances, or participation in a common plan or conspiracy [to do so].”
> Crimes of War   –  Crimes against Peace
> The documents of the court are available at the Harvard Library:
> Nuremberg -  Document Search Results
> 
> By planning and invading Crimea which was part of the sovereign country of Ukraine, Putin is guilty.
> 
> .
Click to expand...


The crime of waging war was specified at Nurnberg 1945? Seriously? Could you prove your words by documents?

Ok... waging war... But Putin is not waging war!!! Where you could find war at Crimea? How it related? 

There are another war at Ukraine territory at Donbass. Waging by Poroshenko from west and rebels from east side. Where's Putin there? Let's start from Poroshenko? No? "Cat is left their kitchen - it's a Putin's guilty too? ))"



> By planning and invading Crimea which was part of the sovereign country of Ukraine, Putin is guilty.



Ha-ha-ha...  Wihout official documents It's just your "opinion", inducted by propaganda... Hiding the fact of nazi state, existing at your, European territory.... 

And your conscience knows it better, than you  That's why you afraid of Russia. That's why you remember Nurnberg and afraid of it too.. Boo!


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## Eloy

Sbiker said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> We know that the Russians annexed Crimea and are involved in east Ukraine.
> Putin has gone too far and is an outlaw.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Being outlaw for the laws of nazi is a valour... )
> 
> But wait. If Putin outlaw - point me a judgement of any court of EU, made him outlaw. Claiming Putin as outlaw without judgement - you're distributing a slander...
> 
> If you consider the will of Crimea people to join with Russia unlawful - return the Kosovo to Serbia first )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The law Putin violated is international. Taking Crimea was *making war* which was outlawed by Russia and the other allies in Nürnberg in 1945.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Without number of document, where Putin judged as criminal - you just repeating the propaganda... All your words are absolutely NAKED, like a king from a tale of H.C. Andersen ))
> 
> Eloy, as your profile said - you're a teacher... Just switch on a logic, stop translate a stupid propaganda like a bot! Don't believe in me, don't believe in anything, but think self-contained! Wake up! Re-read Orwell!
> 
> Joining Crimea in Russia - you could name it how you want - absolutely LEGAL after KOSOVO precedent. Russia follows ALL international laws, not to choose "good" or "bad". But while Russia tried to solve all international problems by law way, EU tries to claim brute force like a main law. Ok, Russia ready for this variant too... Is it really terrible for current infantile Europe to understand - all choices your could made - completely in your hands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You want a document that determined Putin was guilty of making war.
> I told you that the crime of waging war was specified at Nürnberg in 1945.
> Also known as the crime of aggression, crimes against peace formed the first charge against the Nazis in the 1945 Charter of the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg. The charter defined them as “planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression, or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances, or participation in a common plan or conspiracy [to do so].”
> Crimes of War   –  Crimes against Peace
> The documents of the court are available at the Harvard Library:
> Nuremberg -  Document Search Results
> 
> By planning and invading Crimea which was part of the sovereign country of Ukraine, Putin is guilty.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The crime of waging war was specified at Nurnberg 1945? Seriously? Could you prove your words by documents?
> 
> Ok... waging war... But Putin is not waging war!!! Where you could find war at Crimea? How it related?
> 
> There are another war at Ukraine territory at Donbass. Waging by Poroshenko from west and rebels from east side. Where's Putin there? Let's start from Poroshenko? No? "Cat is left their kitchen - it's a Putin's guilty too? ))"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By planning and invading Crimea which was part of the sovereign country of Ukraine, Putin is guilty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ha-ha-ha...  Wihout official documents It's just your "opinion", inducted by propaganda... Hiding the fact of nazi state, existing at your, European territory....
> 
> And your conscience knows it better, than you  That's why you afraid of Russia. That's why you remember Nurnberg and afraid of it too.. Boo!
Click to expand...

Ukrainians staring down the barrel of a machine gun do not need documents.
By sending in troops to Ukraine, Putin performed an act of war. Ukraine was too weak to defend its territory.




.


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## Art__Allm

Eloy said:


> Winston Churchill is no authority on understanding the Russians.



Are you an authority?





Eloy said:


> The principal so-called republic in the Soviet Union was Russia and the capital was Moscau.



You claim to be an authority in Russian history, but you do not know how the capital of Russia is spelled. You spell it "Moscau".
You probably are not able to locate Moscow on the map, and you do not speak Russian.

The Russian Federation was the biggest Soviet Republic, but the other Republics profited more form the Soviet state, than Russia.

Russia lost Crimean Peninsula during the Soviet time, because the Ukrainian Khrushchev gave it to his Ukrainian Commie-Buddies, without asking the Russian population of the Crimean Peninsula. Russian villages deteriorated during the Soviet time, because all money was spent on non-Russian Republics.
Moscow was situated in Russia, but Russians did not profit from that, because Moscow was the capital of the Soviet Union.



Eloy said:


> Today the Russians speak of a Federation but we all know who we mean by the word Russians.



Wo "we all"?
Guys like you, who are unable to spell the name of Russian capital, but claim to be experts in Russian history?



You know the "Mickey-Mouse"-Version of history, that is promoted by the lying media and the Hollywood.

Your atavistic hatred against Russians prevents you from getting some knowledge from primary sources that are available on the Internet.

BTW, Russian Federation was also the official name of the Soviet Republic, that later became an independent state.

Read Solzhenitsyn's "Two hundred years together" if you want to know something about Russian history, that was destroyed by anti-Christian Bolsheviks.

But this book was not translated into English for obvious reasons, so if you do not speak Russian, French or German, you cannot educate yourself.


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## Art__Allm

Eloy said:


> The law Putin violated is international. Taking Crimea was *making war* which was outlawed by Russia and the other allies in Nürnberg in 1945.



Wat a BS!
The legal Ukrainian government was replaced by the illegal Junta, which was supported by the "Fuck-the-EU-Nuland" and her bosses. The Ukrainian constitution was violated, the constitutional judge were replaced by the Junta.

So the old Ukraine in the boarders of the Soviet Ukraine was destroyed, it did not exist any more, and the population of Crimean Peninsula did not have any obligations any more.

Crimean Peninsula had a special status in the Ukrainian state, it was a republic that had a contract with the Ukrainian government. The Russian military forces were located on this peninsula according to a treaty with the legal Ukrainian government, that was illegally replaced by the Junta.

So it is idiotic to talk about some obligation of the Crimean population that decided to reunite with the Mother Russia, because the old Ukrainian state did not exist any more, it was destroyed in an illegal Putsch by the Junta.

No constitution, no state, no obligations. Not the Crimean peninsula violated the contract, but the Junta in Kiev.

The new Ukraine after the Putsch is a different state, and the boarders of this state have to be re-drown. 

Big parts of the Ukrainian population do not want to be part of this new state, that was created illegally, and their rights to self-determination has to be respected.

If you are talking about international law, what about the Palestinians?
Crimean people are happy with their new status within the Russian Federation, but the native Semitic population of Palestine was ethnically cleansed and driven into open-air concentration camps, like Gaza.

Were is the international law, when it comes to Palestine?


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## irosie91

the Ukraine Crimea situation confuses me-----so many people claim that both the Ukrainians and
Crimeans  are ECSTATIC to be   "reunited"  with  "mother Russia"--------news to me-----it seems to me that HISTORICALLY----the Ukrainians despised  MAMA-RUSSIA


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## ESay

Bleipriester said:


> It is an ISIS fake, then:
> ISIS Twitterers Passing Around Photo of Terrorist Supporters at a Ukraine Protest


Yes, it is a fake and you posted a fake to prove your agenda, though it would take you a minute to verify whether it is a fake or not if you wanted to do so.



Bleipriester said:


> This, however, doesn´t change that ISIS fights for the Ukrainian junta:
> Jewish Voice


This, however, doesn’t change the fact that you are posting mostly garbage about this matter. It is your right to do so, but diminish your arrogance while talking about the things you know virtually nothing, ok?


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## Art__Allm

irosie91 said:


> -it seems to me that HISTORICALLY----the Ukrainians despised  MAMA-RUSSIA



If it seems to you, then you only know the "Mickey-Mouse"-Version of history, promoted by the lying media and Hollywood.

There were no Ukrainians whenRussians re-conquered Crimean Peninsula and New Russia from the Muslims, and restored all the old Greek names of the Crimean cities.

Ukrainians did not exist 200 years ago! Ukraine was an artificial creation of anti-Russian and anti-Christian Commies, who were on the payroll of American banksters!

As already many times repeated in this thread, Crimean Peninsula was Russian land, given by the Anti-Russian Commies to their Ukrainian Commie-buddies.

Here is a historical map, do you see any Ukraine there?

https://lts.brandeis.edu/research/archives-speccoll/exhibits/crimeanwar/Large/MapLarge.jpg

And if you look on the ethno-linguistic map of what was "Soviet Ukriane", then you will realise that big chunks of Russian land were given to Ukraine by the anti-Russian Soviet leaders.

http://static5.businessinsider.com/...2-1181-825/ethnolingusitic_map_of_ukraine.png

In the Soviet Union the boarders of Soviet Republics were not boarders of hostile states, so the Russian population that was given to Ukraine with the Russian land did not care a lot about their status.

But why on earth should these Russian people accept their status in an illegal state, created via a Putsch, when today Ukraine became a hostile anti-Russian state, governed by anti-Russian marionettes who are on the payroll of globalists?

Even this Georgian guy, that was eating his own tie, this coward Saakashvili, became a Ukrainian politician, though he is not a Ukrainian, but a puppet of Globalists.

This conflict, instigated in the Ukraine is so in your face!

The lying media was wining about the "hacking" of American elections, but* the American establishment was openly supporting a Putsch in the Ukraine, and they installed anti-Russian puppets there.*

I hope that Trump will drain the swamp in Washington, and that all these warmongers, that created the hostilities in the Ukraine, will be sued and imprisoned.


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## ESay

Sbiker said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xyz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-ISIS association demonstration
> 
> 
> 
> One of the worst looking Photoshop jobs I've ever seen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like that NSDAP sweatshirt? It is obvious you are in denial of reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It may well be that your reality exists in a parallel world. According to this site
> Россияне вышли на ''Марш мира'' (ФОТО)
> this foto was taken in Russia during a meeting against the war in Ukraine. Scroll down the page, this foto is thirteenth from the top.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Offcourse, Russians don't want any war - it's a meeting of 2014 year, see a date. But Ukraine rezhime spits on our peaceful intentions from high tower. They use ballistic missiles to shoot...for whom? Poroshenko said "we force their children to sit in cellars" - the children of WHOM? Russian occupants? Does it means, Russian occupant soldiers invaded Ukraine with families and children? ) I admire of you ability to eat enormous lies, making poker face...
Click to expand...

Look what my answer has to do with the post it was related to, and try to comprehend the connection between them, woody.


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## irosie91

Art__Allm said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> -it seems to me that HISTORICALLY----the Ukrainians despised  MAMA-RUSSIA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it seems to you, then you only know the "Mickey-Mouse"-Version of history, promoted by the lying media and Hollywood.
> 
> There were no Ukrainians whenRussians re-conquered Crimean Peninsula and New Russia from the Muslims, and restored all the old Greek names of the Crimean cities.
> 
> Ukrainians did not exist 200 years ago! Ukraine was an artificial creation of anti-Russian and anti-Christian Commies, who were on the payroll of American banksters!
> 
> As already many times repeated in this thread, Crimean Peninsula was Russian land, given by the Anti-Russian Commies to their Ukrainian Commie-buddies.
> 
> Here is a historical map, do you see any Ukraine there?
> 
> https://lts.brandeis.edu/research/archives-speccoll/exhibits/crimeanwar/Large/MapLarge.jpg
> 
> 
> And if you look on the ethno-linguistic map of what was "Soviet Ukriane", then you will realise that big chunks of Russian land were given to Ukraine by the anti-Russian Soviet leaders.
> 
> http://static5.businessinsider.com/...2-1181-825/ethnolingusitic_map_of_ukraine.png
> 
> In the Soviet Union the boarders of Soviet Republics were not boarders of hostile states, so the Russian population that was given to Ukraine with the Russian land did not care a lot about their status.
> 
> But why on earth should these Russian people accept their status in an illegal state, created via a Putsch, when today Ukraine became a hostile anti-Russian state, governed by anti-Russian marionettes who are on the payroll of globalists?
> 
> Even this Georgian guy, that was eating his own tie, this coward Saakashvili, became a Ukrainian politician, though he is not a Ukrainian, but a puppet of Globalists.
> 
> This conflict, instigated in the Ukraine is so in your face!
> 
> The lying media was wining about the "hacking" of American elections, but* the American establishment was openly supporting a Putsch in the Ukraine, and they installed anti-Russian puppets there.*
> 
> I hope that Trump will drain the swamp in Washington, and that all these warmongers, that created the hostilities in the Ukraine, will be sued and imprisoned.
Click to expand...



your whole argument is that what is called   "UKRAINE"    lately was not called  "UKRAINE"   200 years ago?      So what?       I have ancestors who lived in what was called   THE AUSTRIAN HAPSBURG EMPIRE------300 years ago-------actually----I have no idea where they were-----I had. some names of some
villages that don't exist anymore-----but I forgot those.    I also had relatives who recalled with marked
distaste ---the  COSSACKS ----who seemed to have rebelled against who ever was hanging around
in St Petersburg (?)     What are they calling Stalingrad lately?


----------



## ESay

Art__Allm said:


> Ukrainians did not exist 200 years ago! Ukraine was an artificial creation of anti-Russian and anti-Christian Commies, who were on the payroll of American banksters!


Actually, the Ukrainians began to consider themselves as a nation at least from the times of Hetmanate, if you know what this term means.



Art__Allm said:


> Here is a historical map, do you see any Ukraine there?


What about a historical map of North America?



Art__Allm said:


> And if you look on the ethno-linguistic map of what was "Soviet Ukriane", then you will realise that big chunks of Russian land were given to Ukraine by the anti-Russian Soviet leaders.


The lands of so-called Novorossia began to be populated by Ukrainians (or Malo-Russians as then official authorities called them) almost from the times they were incorporated by the Russian Empire. Read about All-Russian census in 1897 referring to languages. This map shows the mostly Ukrainian-spoken territories. I hope you can compare them with the territory of contemporary Ukraine.


----------



## Eloy

Art__Allm said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The law Putin violated is international. Taking Crimea was *making war* which was outlawed by Russia and the other allies in Nürnberg in 1945.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wat a BS!
> The legal Ukrainian government was replaced by the illegal Junta, which was supported by the "Fuck-the-EU-Nuland" and her bosses. The Ukrainian constitution was violated, the constitutional judge were replaced by the Junta.
> 
> So the old Ukraine in the boarders of the Soviet Ukraine was destroyed, it did not exist any more, and the population of Crimean Peninsula did not have any obligations any more.
> 
> Crimean Peninsula had a special status in the Ukrainian state, it was a republic that had a contract with the Ukrainian government. The Russian military forces were located on this peninsula according to a treaty with the legal Ukrainian government, that was illegally replaced by the Junta.
> 
> So it is idiotic to talk about some obligation of the Crimean population that decided to reunite with the Mother Russia, because the old Ukrainian state did not exist any more, it was destroyed in an illegal Putsch by the Junta.
> 
> No constitution, no state, no obligations. Not the Crimean peninsula violated the contract, but the Junta in Kiev.
> 
> The new Ukraine after the Putsch is a different state, and the boarders of this state have to be re-drown.
> 
> Big parts of the Ukrainian population do not want to be part of this new state, that was created illegally, and their rights to self-determination has to be respected.
> 
> If you are talking about international law, what about the Palestinians?
> Crimean people are happy with their new status within the Russian Federation, but the native Semitic population of Palestine was ethnically cleansed and driven into open-air concentration camps, like Gaza.
> 
> Were is the international law, when it comes to Palestine?
Click to expand...

Your tone is completely hostile which makes me wonder if replying to you is of any use.

We can get  Solzhenitsyn's _Russia & the Jews: Two hundred years together_ in an English translation of course.






When Ukraine got out from under the Russian jackboot, the Ukrainians were promised that their sovereign territory would be respected if they gave-up their nuclear weapons. This was a Russian trick and it worked. Taking Crimea informs us of how the Russian mind works. Putin and his followers cannot be trusted and the European Union knows this.




.


----------



## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Being outlaw for the laws of nazi is a valour... )
> 
> But wait. If Putin outlaw - point me a judgement of any court of EU, made him outlaw. Claiming Putin as outlaw without judgement - you're distributing a slander...
> 
> If you consider the will of Crimea people to join with Russia unlawful - return the Kosovo to Serbia first )
> 
> 
> 
> The law Putin violated is international. Taking Crimea was *making war* which was outlawed by Russia and the other allies in Nürnberg in 1945.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Without number of document, where Putin judged as criminal - you just repeating the propaganda... All your words are absolutely NAKED, like a king from a tale of H.C. Andersen ))
> 
> Eloy, as your profile said - you're a teacher... Just switch on a logic, stop translate a stupid propaganda like a bot! Don't believe in me, don't believe in anything, but think self-contained! Wake up! Re-read Orwell!
> 
> Joining Crimea in Russia - you could name it how you want - absolutely LEGAL after KOSOVO precedent. Russia follows ALL international laws, not to choose "good" or "bad". But while Russia tried to solve all international problems by law way, EU tries to claim brute force like a main law. Ok, Russia ready for this variant too... Is it really terrible for current infantile Europe to understand - all choices your could made - completely in your hands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You want a document that determined Putin was guilty of making war.
> I told you that the crime of waging war was specified at Nürnberg in 1945.
> Also known as the crime of aggression, crimes against peace formed the first charge against the Nazis in the 1945 Charter of the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg. The charter defined them as “planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression, or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances, or participation in a common plan or conspiracy [to do so].”
> Crimes of War   –  Crimes against Peace
> The documents of the court are available at the Harvard Library:
> Nuremberg -  Document Search Results
> 
> By planning and invading Crimea which was part of the sovereign country of Ukraine, Putin is guilty.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The crime of waging war was specified at Nurnberg 1945? Seriously? Could you prove your words by documents?
> 
> Ok... waging war... But Putin is not waging war!!! Where you could find war at Crimea? How it related?
> 
> There are another war at Ukraine territory at Donbass. Waging by Poroshenko from west and rebels from east side. Where's Putin there? Let's start from Poroshenko? No? "Cat is left their kitchen - it's a Putin's guilty too? ))"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By planning and invading Crimea which was part of the sovereign country of Ukraine, Putin is guilty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ha-ha-ha...  Wihout official documents It's just your "opinion", inducted by propaganda... Hiding the fact of nazi state, existing at your, European territory....
> 
> And your conscience knows it better, than you  That's why you afraid of Russia. That's why you remember Nurnberg and afraid of it too.. Boo!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ukrainians staring down the barrel of a machine gun do not need documents.
> By sending in troops to Ukraine, Putin performed an act of war. Ukraine was too weak to defend its territory.
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...


Crimea is not an Ukraine. It was defined in Crimea referendum too... Why do you, speaking about democracy, ignore the results of all-population referendum? Do you consider Crimea civilians as people?


----------



## Bleipriester

ESay said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is an ISIS fake, then:
> ISIS Twitterers Passing Around Photo of Terrorist Supporters at a Ukraine Protest
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is a fake and you posted a fake to prove your agenda, though it would take you a minute to verify whether it is a fake or not if you wanted to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> This, however, doesn´t change that ISIS fights for the Ukrainian junta:
> Jewish Voice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This, however, doesn’t change the fact that you are posting mostly garbage about this matter. It is your right to do so, but diminish your arrogance while talking about the things you know virtually nothing, ok?
Click to expand...

Not true. My threads are serious, whether you like it or not.


----------



## Sbiker

Art__Allm said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Winston Churchill is no authority on understanding the Russians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you an authority?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The principal so-called republic in the Soviet Union was Russia and the capital was Moscau.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You claim to be an authority in Russian history, but you do not know how the capital of Russia is spelled. You spell it "Moscau".
> You probably are not able to locate Moscow on the map, and you do not speak Russian.
> 
> The Russian Federation was the biggest Soviet Republic, but the other Republics profited more form the Soviet state, than Russia.
> 
> Russia lost Crimean Peninsula during the Soviet time, because the Ukrainian Khrushchev gave it to his Ukrainian Commie-Buddies, without asking the Russian population of the Crimean Peninsula. Russian villages deteriorated during the Soviet time, because all money was spent on non-Russian Republics.
> Moscow was situated in Russia, but Russians did not profit from that, because Moscow was the capital of the Soviet Union.
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today the Russians speak of a Federation but we all know who we mean by the word Russians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wo "we all"?
> Guys like you, who are unable to spell the name of Russian capital, but claim to be experts in Russian history?
> 
> 
> 
> You know the "Mickey-Mouse"-Version of history, that is promoted by the lying media and the Hollywood.
> 
> Your atavistic hatred against Russians prevents you from getting some knowledge from primary sources that are available on the Internet.
> 
> BTW, Russian Federation was also the official name of the Soviet Republic, that later became an independent state.
> 
> Read Solzhenitsyn's "Two hundred years together" if you want to know something about Russian history, that was destroyed by anti-Christian Bolsheviks.
> 
> But this book was not translated into English for obvious reasons, so if you do not speak Russian, French or German, you cannot educate yourself.
Click to expand...


Solzhenitzin is very disputable source of Russian history, but I'm choking of situation, when he's closer to reality, than people from EU...


----------



## Sbiker

irosie91 said:


> the Ukraine Crimea situation confuses me-----so many people claim that both the Ukrainians and
> Crimeans  are ECSTATIC to be   "reunited"  with  "mother Russia"--------news to me-----it seems to me that HISTORICALLY----the Ukrainians despised  MAMA-RUSSIA



Ukrainians - is a project of Austrian Empire, you would not find Ukrainians in History in 18 century or earlier  If you use original sources, offcourse...


----------



## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The law Putin violated is international. Taking Crimea was *making war* which was outlawed by Russia and the other allies in Nürnberg in 1945.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wat a BS!
> The legal Ukrainian government was replaced by the illegal Junta, which was supported by the "Fuck-the-EU-Nuland" and her bosses. The Ukrainian constitution was violated, the constitutional judge were replaced by the Junta.
> 
> So the old Ukraine in the boarders of the Soviet Ukraine was destroyed, it did not exist any more, and the population of Crimean Peninsula did not have any obligations any more.
> 
> Crimean Peninsula had a special status in the Ukrainian state, it was a republic that had a contract with the Ukrainian government. The Russian military forces were located on this peninsula according to a treaty with the legal Ukrainian government, that was illegally replaced by the Junta.
> 
> So it is idiotic to talk about some obligation of the Crimean population that decided to reunite with the Mother Russia, because the old Ukrainian state did not exist any more, it was destroyed in an illegal Putsch by the Junta.
> 
> No constitution, no state, no obligations. Not the Crimean peninsula violated the contract, but the Junta in Kiev.
> 
> The new Ukraine after the Putsch is a different state, and the boarders of this state have to be re-drown.
> 
> Big parts of the Ukrainian population do not want to be part of this new state, that was created illegally, and their rights to self-determination has to be respected.
> 
> If you are talking about international law, what about the Palestinians?
> Crimean people are happy with their new status within the Russian Federation, but the native Semitic population of Palestine was ethnically cleansed and driven into open-air concentration camps, like Gaza.
> 
> Were is the international law, when it comes to Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your tone is completely hostile which makes me wonder if replying to you is of any use.
> 
> We can get  Solzhenitsyn's _Russia & the Jews: Two hundred years together_ in an English translation of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Ukraine got out from under the Russian jackboot, the Ukrainians were promised that their sovereign territory would be respected if they gave-up their nuclear weapons. This was a Russian trick and it worked. Taking Crimea informs us of how the Russian mind works. Putin and his followers cannot be trusted and the European Union knows this.
> 
> .
Click to expand...


NATO also promises not to expand to East, when the Berlin wall was fallen. Why don't you ask NATO about promises first?


----------



## Sbiker

ESay said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainians did not exist 200 years ago! Ukraine was an artificial creation of anti-Russian and anti-Christian Commies, who were on the payroll of American banksters!
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Ukrainians began to consider themselves as a nation at least from the times of Hetmanate, if you know what this term means.
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a historical map, do you see any Ukraine there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What about a historical map of North America?
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> And if you look on the ethno-linguistic map of what was "Soviet Ukriane", then you will realise that big chunks of Russian land were given to Ukraine by the anti-Russian Soviet leaders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The lands of so-called Novorossia began to be populated by Ukrainians (or Malo-Russians as then official authorities called them) almost from the times they were incorporated by the Russian Empire. Read about All-Russian census in 1897 referring to languages. This map shows the mostly Ukrainian-spoken territories. I hope you can compare them with the territory of contemporary Ukraine.
Click to expand...


Could you give link to source of 1897 year, please?


----------



## Sbiker

ESay said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xyz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-ISIS association demonstration
> 
> 
> 
> One of the worst looking Photoshop jobs I've ever seen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like that NSDAP sweatshirt? It is obvious you are in denial of reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It may well be that your reality exists in a parallel world. According to this site
> Россияне вышли на ''Марш мира'' (ФОТО)
> this foto was taken in Russia during a meeting against the war in Ukraine. Scroll down the page, this foto is thirteenth from the top.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Offcourse, Russians don't want any war - it's a meeting of 2014 year, see a date. But Ukraine rezhime spits on our peaceful intentions from high tower. They use ballistic missiles to shoot...for whom? Poroshenko said "we force their children to sit in cellars" - the children of WHOM? Russian occupants? Does it means, Russian occupant soldiers invaded Ukraine with families and children? ) I admire of you ability to eat enormous lies, making poker face...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look what my answer has to do with the post it was related to, and try to comprehend the connection between them, woody.
Click to expand...


I did it.. So, what about children Porosenko said "we force them not to study in schools, but to sit in cellars"?


----------



## Eloy

Sbiker said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The law Putin violated is international. Taking Crimea was *making war* which was outlawed by Russia and the other allies in Nürnberg in 1945.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Without number of document, where Putin judged as criminal - you just repeating the propaganda... All your words are absolutely NAKED, like a king from a tale of H.C. Andersen ))
> 
> Eloy, as your profile said - you're a teacher... Just switch on a logic, stop translate a stupid propaganda like a bot! Don't believe in me, don't believe in anything, but think self-contained! Wake up! Re-read Orwell!
> 
> Joining Crimea in Russia - you could name it how you want - absolutely LEGAL after KOSOVO precedent. Russia follows ALL international laws, not to choose "good" or "bad". But while Russia tried to solve all international problems by law way, EU tries to claim brute force like a main law. Ok, Russia ready for this variant too... Is it really terrible for current infantile Europe to understand - all choices your could made - completely in your hands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You want a document that determined Putin was guilty of making war.
> I told you that the crime of waging war was specified at Nürnberg in 1945.
> Also known as the crime of aggression, crimes against peace formed the first charge against the Nazis in the 1945 Charter of the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg. The charter defined them as “planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression, or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances, or participation in a common plan or conspiracy [to do so].”
> Crimes of War   –  Crimes against Peace
> The documents of the court are available at the Harvard Library:
> Nuremberg -  Document Search Results
> 
> By planning and invading Crimea which was part of the sovereign country of Ukraine, Putin is guilty.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The crime of waging war was specified at Nurnberg 1945? Seriously? Could you prove your words by documents?
> 
> Ok... waging war... But Putin is not waging war!!! Where you could find war at Crimea? How it related?
> 
> There are another war at Ukraine territory at Donbass. Waging by Poroshenko from west and rebels from east side. Where's Putin there? Let's start from Poroshenko? No? "Cat is left their kitchen - it's a Putin's guilty too? ))"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By planning and invading Crimea which was part of the sovereign country of Ukraine, Putin is guilty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ha-ha-ha...  Wihout official documents It's just your "opinion", inducted by propaganda... Hiding the fact of nazi state, existing at your, European territory....
> 
> And your conscience knows it better, than you  That's why you afraid of Russia. That's why you remember Nurnberg and afraid of it too.. Boo!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ukrainians staring down the barrel of a machine gun do not need documents.
> By sending in troops to Ukraine, Putin performed an act of war. Ukraine was too weak to defend its territory.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Crimea is not an Ukraine. It was defined in Crimea referendum too... Why do you, speaking about democracy, ignore the results of all-population referendum? Do you consider Crimea civilians as people?
Click to expand...

When Ukraine gained freedom from Russia, Crimea was part of that sovereign state. (I think I wrote that four times in this thread.)
If people in Crimea wanted to be in Russia, that would be an issue for the Kiev government to address and come to a solution. Perhaps a referendum could have been held by the sovereign authority but another country cannot legally enter the territory and hold a referendum. For example, it seems very reasonable that Gibraltar should be part of Spain but it is an English colony. Spain will not send its army to the colony and claim it by force. So, Gibraltar remains a colony. There are lots of such examples.




.


----------



## Eloy

Sbiker said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The law Putin violated is international. Taking Crimea was *making war* which was outlawed by Russia and the other allies in Nürnberg in 1945.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wat a BS!
> The legal Ukrainian government was replaced by the illegal Junta, which was supported by the "Fuck-the-EU-Nuland" and her bosses. The Ukrainian constitution was violated, the constitutional judge were replaced by the Junta.
> 
> So the old Ukraine in the boarders of the Soviet Ukraine was destroyed, it did not exist any more, and the population of Crimean Peninsula did not have any obligations any more.
> 
> Crimean Peninsula had a special status in the Ukrainian state, it was a republic that had a contract with the Ukrainian government. The Russian military forces were located on this peninsula according to a treaty with the legal Ukrainian government, that was illegally replaced by the Junta.
> 
> So it is idiotic to talk about some obligation of the Crimean population that decided to reunite with the Mother Russia, because the old Ukrainian state did not exist any more, it was destroyed in an illegal Putsch by the Junta.
> 
> No constitution, no state, no obligations. Not the Crimean peninsula violated the contract, but the Junta in Kiev.
> 
> The new Ukraine after the Putsch is a different state, and the boarders of this state have to be re-drown.
> 
> Big parts of the Ukrainian population do not want to be part of this new state, that was created illegally, and their rights to self-determination has to be respected.
> 
> If you are talking about international law, what about the Palestinians?
> Crimean people are happy with their new status within the Russian Federation, but the native Semitic population of Palestine was ethnically cleansed and driven into open-air concentration camps, like Gaza.
> 
> Were is the international law, when it comes to Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your tone is completely hostile which makes me wonder if replying to you is of any use.
> 
> We can get  Solzhenitsyn's _Russia & the Jews: Two hundred years together_ in an English translation of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Ukraine got out from under the Russian jackboot, the Ukrainians were promised that their sovereign territory would be respected if they gave-up their nuclear weapons. This was a Russian trick and it worked. Taking Crimea informs us of how the Russian mind works. Putin and his followers cannot be trusted and the European Union knows this.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NATO also promises not to expand to East, when the Berlin wall was fallen. Why don't you ask NATO about promises first?
Click to expand...

Two wrongs do not make a right.



.


----------



## Tehon

Eloy said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Without number of document, where Putin judged as criminal - you just repeating the propaganda... All your words are absolutely NAKED, like a king from a tale of H.C. Andersen ))
> 
> Eloy, as your profile said - you're a teacher... Just switch on a logic, stop translate a stupid propaganda like a bot! Don't believe in me, don't believe in anything, but think self-contained! Wake up! Re-read Orwell!
> 
> Joining Crimea in Russia - you could name it how you want - absolutely LEGAL after KOSOVO precedent. Russia follows ALL international laws, not to choose "good" or "bad". But while Russia tried to solve all international problems by law way, EU tries to claim brute force like a main law. Ok, Russia ready for this variant too... Is it really terrible for current infantile Europe to understand - all choices your could made - completely in your hands?
> 
> 
> 
> You want a document that determined Putin was guilty of making war.
> I told you that the crime of waging war was specified at Nürnberg in 1945.
> Also known as the crime of aggression, crimes against peace formed the first charge against the Nazis in the 1945 Charter of the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg. The charter defined them as “planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression, or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances, or participation in a common plan or conspiracy [to do so].”
> Crimes of War   –  Crimes against Peace
> The documents of the court are available at the Harvard Library:
> Nuremberg -  Document Search Results
> 
> By planning and invading Crimea which was part of the sovereign country of Ukraine, Putin is guilty.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The crime of waging war was specified at Nurnberg 1945? Seriously? Could you prove your words by documents?
> 
> Ok... waging war... But Putin is not waging war!!! Where you could find war at Crimea? How it related?
> 
> There are another war at Ukraine territory at Donbass. Waging by Poroshenko from west and rebels from east side. Where's Putin there? Let's start from Poroshenko? No? "Cat is left their kitchen - it's a Putin's guilty too? ))"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By planning and invading Crimea which was part of the sovereign country of Ukraine, Putin is guilty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ha-ha-ha...  Wihout official documents It's just your "opinion", inducted by propaganda... Hiding the fact of nazi state, existing at your, European territory....
> 
> And your conscience knows it better, than you  That's why you afraid of Russia. That's why you remember Nurnberg and afraid of it too.. Boo!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ukrainians staring down the barrel of a machine gun do not need documents.
> By sending in troops to Ukraine, Putin performed an act of war. Ukraine was too weak to defend its territory.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Crimea is not an Ukraine. It was defined in Crimea referendum too... Why do you, speaking about democracy, ignore the results of all-population referendum? Do you consider Crimea civilians as people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When Ukraine gained freedom from Russia, Crimea was part of that sovereign state. (I think I wrote that four times in this thread.)
> If people in Crimea wanted to be in Russia, that would be an issue for the Kiev government to address and come to a solution. Perhaps a referendum could have been held by the sovereign authority but another country cannot legally enter the territory and hold a referendum. For example, it seems very reasonable that Gibraltar should be part of Spain but it is an English colony. Spain will not send its army to the colony and claim it by force. So, Gibraltar remains a colony. There are lots of such examples.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...

Crimea began its drive to secede from Ukraine in 1991. That is when Crimea was reinstated as an autonomous republic. Their desires were finally fully realized, born out of the failures of illegal Western policies relating to Ukraine. For every action there is a reaction......or something like that.  There was nothing illegal about the secession.


----------



## ESay

Sbiker said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainians did not exist 200 years ago! Ukraine was an artificial creation of anti-Russian and anti-Christian Commies, who were on the payroll of American banksters!
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Ukrainians began to consider themselves as a nation at least from the times of Hetmanate, if you know what this term means.
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a historical map, do you see any Ukraine there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What about a historical map of North America?
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> And if you look on the ethno-linguistic map of what was "Soviet Ukriane", then you will realise that big chunks of Russian land were given to Ukraine by the anti-Russian Soviet leaders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The lands of so-called Novorossia began to be populated by Ukrainians (or Malo-Russians as then official authorities called them) almost from the times they were incorporated by the Russian Empire. Read about All-Russian census in 1897 referring to languages. This map shows the mostly Ukrainian-spoken territories. I hope you can compare them with the territory of contemporary Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Could you give link to source of 1897 year, please?
Click to expand...

Перепись населения Российской империи (1897) — Википедия
Демоскоп Weekly - Приложение. Справочник статистических показателей.


----------



## Art__Allm

Eloy said:


> By planning and invading Crimea which was part of the sovereign country of Ukraine, Putin is guilty.



You watched too much fake news.
There was no invasion of Crimean Peninsula, dude.
Russian military was already there, because there was an agreement between the RF and the legitimate elected Ukrainian government about the use of old Soviet military bases on the Crimean Peninsula.

These military bases became Russian military bases.
In fact, the Crimean Peninsula had a special status, because the inhabitants of this peninsula did not speak the Ukrainian language, they were and are Russians.
After the Junta destroyed the old Ukraine in the the boarders of Soviet Ukraine, the inhabitants of the Crimean Peninsula did not have any obligations to the Ukrainian government any more, because the old Ukrainian Constitution was abolished after the Putsch.

In an nutshell:

1. The old Ukraine was destroyed during the Putsch, financed by the American and globalist establishment, by the Junta, not by Putin.

2.American people voted for Trump, speak they de-legitimised the American pro-globalist Establishment, that organised and financed a Putsch in the Ukraine.

3. Trump is going to drain the Swamp in Washington, he is in war with the lying media and the warmongering American establishment, and he has the full support of the American people.

4. The warmongers and anti-Russian haters do not have any chance, the confrontation between Russia and the USA/EU will end, the warmongers and haters will be exposed, sued and put into prison, sooner or later. White Christians cannot afford any fratricidal wars any more, they have to stick together, because their countries are invaded by non-European Third World people who are raping their women and destroying their cultures. The globalist plans are not supported by the awakening white Christians, and the old warmongers have bid difficulties now to instigate hate among white Christians and stampede the people into another fratricidal war.

*Long live Trump and Putin, the great leaders of the awakening white Christian Nations!*


----------



## Art__Allm

ESay said:


> The lands of so-called Novorossia began to be populated by Ukrainians (or Malo-Russians as then official authorities called them)...



They called themselves Russians, dude. The conflict between some Ukrainians and Russians is based on the notion that people who today call themselves Ukrainians are more Russian, than the Russians from today Russian Federation. So *Malo-Russians* was what the population of this provinces called themselves. And the population of today RF called themselves *Veliko-Russians*, because they had a bigger landmass.

And the All-Russian Tsars called themselves *"Tsar of all Russia, Veliko-Russia, Belo-Russia and Malo-Russia".*

They did not call themselves "Ukrainians" two hundred yeas ago, though some of them called their Malo-Russian province "Ukraine" (which literally means Province).

All people of Malo-Russia called themselves RUSSIANS, and most inhabitants of today Ukraine still call Themselves RUSSIANS.

In fact Malo-Russians (Ukrainians) believe that they are themselves more Russian, than Russians from the RF, though they lost their original language and religion due to the centuries of Polish occupation.

If you speak Russian, please explain this nuances to these American idiots who do not have any idea about the history of Old Russia and who do not understand what the conflict of Russians and Ukrainians is about. These American fools believe that if they instigate hate against Russians, they are pleasing Ukrainian people.



Ukrainians call themselves RUSSIANS!

In fact, if a Ukrainian wants to insult a Russian, he calls him a Katzap, speak a non-Slavic Russian-speaking mongrel. Ukrainian Nationalists believe that Peter The Great had stolen the "Name" Russia from the Kievan Rus, and most Ukrainians hate the name of their today state, which literally means "Province". They claim the name "Russia" for themselves.

But how can idiots from the USA, who are unable to locate Ukraine on the map, understand such nuances or Russian history!?





ESay said:


> This map shows the mostly Ukrainian-spoken territories. I hope you can compare them with the territory of contemporary Ukraine.



This map was faked.
There were no"Ukraine" and no "Ukrainians" back then, there were Malo-Russians, these people spoke Malo-Russian dialects. Gogol, the great Russians writer, also spoke a Malo-Russian dialect. There were also Belo-Russian and Veliko-Russian dialects.

Peasants in different Russian provinces spoke different Russian dialects, but these Dialects were more similar, than say the Bavarian and Prussian dialects of the German language.

The today official Russian language was originally created by intellectuals in Sankt Petersburg, it was hugely influence by the French and German languages, because the Russian aristocracy used French to communicate with each other, and German was once the official language of the first Russian Universities, created by Peter the Great.

Gradually, the language, spoken in Sant Petersburg, became the official language of the Russian Empire, all intellectuals, including those in Malo-Russia switched to the Russian language of Santk Petersburg. That is why Gogol wrote his works in this language, not in his Malo-Russian dialect.

But the peasants in all Russian provinces, including Belo-Russia, Malo-Russia and Veliko-Russia (speak Great Russia) still used their old dialects, because they were illiterate.

Because Malo-Russia and Belo-Russia were more backward, than Great Russia, the peasants remained illiterate there for a longer time, than in Great Russia. In fact, the word "Ukraine", means "Province" or "Rimland", it was just a backward province of the Russian empire, that is why the name "Ukraine" (Province) eventually became the name of this Russian province.

The Bolsheviks used this backwardness of Malo-Russian and Belo-Russian peasantry to divide and conquer Russia.

That is the reason why the peasant dialects in Belo-Russia and Malo-Russia eventually became new Russian languages. The Bolsheviks used the illiteracy of peasants in Russian provinces and created the "Ukrainian" and "Belorussian" languages and national identities, which did not exist 200 years ago.

You could easily do this in Germany, too, and declare that Bavarian dialect is a separate language, because the inhabitants of Berlin cannot understand a Bavarian peasant, if this peasant did not manage to learn the official German languauge.



> Перепись населения Российской империи (1897) — Википедия
> Демоскоп Weekly - Приложение. Справочник статистических показателей.



This link fully support my arguments, there were no "Ukrainians" in the Russian Empire. There were different kinds of Russians. Belo-Russians, Malo-Russians and Veliko(Great)-Russians. Peasants in different Russian provinces spoke different kinds of Russian dialects, but these dialects were more similar, than different German dialects that are still spoken today by illiterate German peasants.

BTW, the "Ukrainian" language of Shevchenko was very different from the Ukrainian language, installed now by the Catholic Ukrainian Junta from the West-Ukraine. These parts of ancient Russia were for centuries under Polish domination, that is why the population of this region lost its original Orthodox Russian language (called Old Russian), and is now speaking a bizarre pigeon language, a mixture of Polish and Russian dialects.


----------



## Eloy

Art__Allm said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> By planning and invading Crimea which was part of the sovereign country of Ukraine, Putin is guilty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You watched too much fake news.
> There was no invasion of Crimean Peninsula, dude.
> Russian military was already there, because there was an agreement between the RF and the legitimate elected Ukrainian government about the use of old Soviet military bases on the Crimean Peninsula.
> 
> These military bases became Russian military bases.
> In fact, the Crimean Peninsula had a special status, because the inhabitants of this peninsula did not speak the Ukrainian language, they were and are Russians.
> After the Junta destroyed the old Ukraine in the the boarders of Soviet Ukraine, the inhabitants of the Crimean Peninsula did not have any obligations to the Ukrainian government any more, because the old Ukrainian Constitution was abolished after the Putsch.
> 
> In an nutshell:
> 
> 1. The old Ukraine was destroyed during the Putsch, financed by the American and globalist establishment, by the Junta, not by Putin.
> 
> 2.American people voted for Trump, speak they de-legitimised the American pro-globalist Establishment, that organised and financed a Putsch in the Ukraine.
> 
> 3. Trump is going to drain the Swamp in Washington, he is in war with the lying media and the warmongering American establishment, and he has the full support of the American people.
> 
> 4. The warmongers and anti-Russian haters do not have any chance, the confrontation between Russia and the USA/EU will end, the warmongers and haters will be exposed, sued and put into prison, sooner or later. White Christians cannot afford any fratricidal wars any more, they have to stick together, because their countries are invaded by non-European Third World people who are raping their women and destroying their cultures. The globalist plans are not supported by the awakening white Christians, and the old warmongers have bid difficulties now to instigate hate among white Christians and stampede the people into another fratricidal war.
> 
> *Long live Trump and Putin, the great leaders of the awakening white Christian Nations!*
Click to expand...

The Russian troops in Crimea were part of an agreement with the sovereign state of Ukraine. By annexing Crimea to Russia, Putin made an act of war. How foolish of Ukraine to forfeit its nuclear weapons in exchange for a land which was invaded by Russia later. Because Putin is popular with Russians, it proves that they are a people not to be trusted.

You are correct about Trump. He has no loyalty to the European Union and, for some reason, he has given a sign that Americans will not honor their obligation under the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.




.


----------



## Art__Allm

Eloy said:


> The Russian troops in Crimea were part of an agreement with the sovereign state of Ukraine.



And this sovereign Ukraine was represented by an elected government, not by the Junta.



Eloy said:


> By annexing Crimea to Russia, Putin made an act of war.



No, the Junta in Kiev declared war on parts of Ukraine, and that is the reason why parts of Ukraine declared their independence from the Junta in Kiev and asked for reunification with Russia.

If a husband mistreats his wife, the wife has the right to abandon the violent husband.

If people are mistreated by an illegal Junta, they have the right to abandon the Junta.



Eloy said:


> You are correct about Trump. He has no loyalty to the European Union and, for some reason, he has given a sign that Americans will not honor their obligation under the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.



Trump is not loyal to the agenda of Globalists, but he is loyal to the interests of Europeans. For example, he pointed out that Frau Merkel is not representing the interests of Germans, opening the boarders of Germany to Third World migration, and I think that most German Normies share this opinion.

Trump pointed out that UK should leave the EU, and most Brits agreed with Trump.

So Trump has huge support of the Normies in Europe, that is the reason why Trump is so hated by the lying media and the corrupt EU-Establishment, that instigates hate against the Russian pople and their elected president.

But the warmongers have not achieved their goal, the Europeans cannot be stampeded into another fratricidal war so easily, as it was the case in the past.

The solidarity among white Christians is growing, because they are awakening and realising, that an undeclared war is waged against them by their corrupt political establishments, that are de facto puppets of Globalist banksters, and these Globalist banksters hate national states and national identities.

In the USA many representatives of the old Establishment even openly declared that their goal is the replacement of white Christians through "new Americans", speak Third World migrants.

These guys, that dropped their masks, are redpilling white Christians around the world even more that it is already the case.


----------



## Eloy

Art__Allm said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Russian troops in Crimea were part of an agreement with the sovereign state of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this sovereign Ukraine was represented by an elected government, not by the Junta.
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> By annexing Crimea to Russia, Putin made an act of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the Junta in Kiev declared war on parts of Ukraine, and that is the reason why parts of Ukraine declared their independence from the Junta in Kiev and asked for reunification with Russia.
> 
> If a husband mistreats his wife, the wife has the right to abandon the violent husband.
> 
> If people are mistreated by an illegal Junta, they have the right to abandon the Junta.
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct about Trump. He has no loyalty to the European Union and, for some reason, he has given a sign that Americans will not honor their obligation under the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump is not loyal to the agenda of Globalists, but he is loyal to the interests of Europeans. For example, he pointed out that Frau Merkel is not representing the interests of Germans, opening the boarders of Germany to Third World migration, and I think that most German Normies share this opinion.
> 
> Trump pointed out that UK should leave the EU, and most Brits agreed with Trump.
> 
> So Trump has huge support of the Normies in Europe, that is the reason why Trump is so hated by the lying media and the corrupt EU-Establishment, that instigates hate against the Russian pople and their elected president.
> 
> But the warmongers have not achieved their goal, the Europeans cannot be stampeded into another fratricidal war so easily, as it was the case in the past.
> 
> The solidarity among white Christians is growing, because they are awakening and realising, that an undeclared war is waged against them by their corrupt political establishments, that are de facto puppets of Globalist banksters, and these Globalist banksters hate national states and national identities.
> 
> In the USA many representatives of the old Establishment even openly declared that their goal is the replacement of white Christians through "new Americans", speak Third World migrants.
> 
> These guys, that dropped their masks, are redpilling white Christians around the world even more that it is already the case.
Click to expand...

If Putin did not like what was happening in Ukraine, he still had no authority to order troops to annex Crimea.

Unlike Russia, the European media do not lie.




.


----------



## Sbiker

ESay said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainians did not exist 200 years ago! Ukraine was an artificial creation of anti-Russian and anti-Christian Commies, who were on the payroll of American banksters!
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Ukrainians began to consider themselves as a nation at least from the times of Hetmanate, if you know what this term means.
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a historical map, do you see any Ukraine there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What about a historical map of North America?
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> And if you look on the ethno-linguistic map of what was "Soviet Ukriane", then you will realise that big chunks of Russian land were given to Ukraine by the anti-Russian Soviet leaders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The lands of so-called Novorossia began to be populated by Ukrainians (or Malo-Russians as then official authorities called them) almost from the times they were incorporated by the Russian Empire. Read about All-Russian census in 1897 referring to languages. This map shows the mostly Ukrainian-spoken territories. I hope you can compare them with the territory of contemporary Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Could you give link to source of 1897 year, please?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Перепись населения Российской империи (1897) — Википедия
> Демоскоп Weekly - Приложение. Справочник статистических показателей.
Click to expand...


Really? Maybe, let's compare with source? 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/East_Slavs_in_Russia_1897.JPG

You included in Malorossian territories where malorossian dialect consist of less than 50%.   

_"Mister, if you ain't any slicker with that pistol than you were with that bottom deal, you'd better not have at it."  _


----------



## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> By planning and invading Crimea which was part of the sovereign country of Ukraine, Putin is guilty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You watched too much fake news.
> There was no invasion of Crimean Peninsula, dude.
> Russian military was already there, because there was an agreement between the RF and the legitimate elected Ukrainian government about the use of old Soviet military bases on the Crimean Peninsula.
> 
> These military bases became Russian military bases.
> In fact, the Crimean Peninsula had a special status, because the inhabitants of this peninsula did not speak the Ukrainian language, they were and are Russians.
> After the Junta destroyed the old Ukraine in the the boarders of Soviet Ukraine, the inhabitants of the Crimean Peninsula did not have any obligations to the Ukrainian government any more, because the old Ukrainian Constitution was abolished after the Putsch.
> 
> In an nutshell:
> 
> 1. The old Ukraine was destroyed during the Putsch, financed by the American and globalist establishment, by the Junta, not by Putin.
> 
> 2.American people voted for Trump, speak they de-legitimised the American pro-globalist Establishment, that organised and financed a Putsch in the Ukraine.
> 
> 3. Trump is going to drain the Swamp in Washington, he is in war with the lying media and the warmongering American establishment, and he has the full support of the American people.
> 
> 4. The warmongers and anti-Russian haters do not have any chance, the confrontation between Russia and the USA/EU will end, the warmongers and haters will be exposed, sued and put into prison, sooner or later. White Christians cannot afford any fratricidal wars any more, they have to stick together, because their countries are invaded by non-European Third World people who are raping their women and destroying their cultures. The globalist plans are not supported by the awakening white Christians, and the old warmongers have bid difficulties now to instigate hate among white Christians and stampede the people into another fratricidal war.
> 
> *Long live Trump and Putin, the great leaders of the awakening white Christian Nations!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Russian troops in Crimea were part of an agreement with the sovereign state of Ukraine. By annexing Crimea to Russia, Putin made an act of war. How foolish of Ukraine to forfeit its nuclear weapons in exchange for a land which was invaded by Russia later. Because Putin is popular with Russians, it proves that they are a people not to be trusted.
> 
> You are correct about Trump. He has no loyalty to the European Union and, for some reason, he has given a sign that Americans will not honor their obligation under the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.
> 
> .
Click to expand...


Don't worry, unfortunately Kiev's hunta have a four nuclear stations and already experimented with one (in Energodar) to exploit it and to make wide humanitarian catastrophe...


----------



## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Russian troops in Crimea were part of an agreement with the sovereign state of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this sovereign Ukraine was represented by an elected government, not by the Junta.
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> By annexing Crimea to Russia, Putin made an act of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the Junta in Kiev declared war on parts of Ukraine, and that is the reason why parts of Ukraine declared their independence from the Junta in Kiev and asked for reunification with Russia.
> 
> If a husband mistreats his wife, the wife has the right to abandon the violent husband.
> 
> If people are mistreated by an illegal Junta, they have the right to abandon the Junta.
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct about Trump. He has no loyalty to the European Union and, for some reason, he has given a sign that Americans will not honor their obligation under the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump is not loyal to the agenda of Globalists, but he is loyal to the interests of Europeans. For example, he pointed out that Frau Merkel is not representing the interests of Germans, opening the boarders of Germany to Third World migration, and I think that most German Normies share this opinion.
> 
> Trump pointed out that UK should leave the EU, and most Brits agreed with Trump.
> 
> So Trump has huge support of the Normies in Europe, that is the reason why Trump is so hated by the lying media and the corrupt EU-Establishment, that instigates hate against the Russian pople and their elected president.
> 
> But the warmongers have not achieved their goal, the Europeans cannot be stampeded into another fratricidal war so easily, as it was the case in the past.
> 
> The solidarity among white Christians is growing, because they are awakening and realising, that an undeclared war is waged against them by their corrupt political establishments, that are de facto puppets of Globalist banksters, and these Globalist banksters hate national states and national identities.
> 
> In the USA many representatives of the old Establishment even openly declared that their goal is the replacement of white Christians through "new Americans", speak Third World migrants.
> 
> These guys, that dropped their masks, are redpilling white Christians around the world even more that it is already the case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If Putin did not like what was happening in Ukraine, he still had no authority to order troops to annex Crimea.
> 
> Unlike Russia, the European media do not lie.
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...


Eloy, please, lend me a thousand bucks for a three days...

And at Thursday we'll discuss your ANNEXATION of MY 1000 bucks....


----------



## Eloy

Sbiker said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Russian troops in Crimea were part of an agreement with the sovereign state of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this sovereign Ukraine was represented by an elected government, not by the Junta.
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> By annexing Crimea to Russia, Putin made an act of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the Junta in Kiev declared war on parts of Ukraine, and that is the reason why parts of Ukraine declared their independence from the Junta in Kiev and asked for reunification with Russia.
> 
> If a husband mistreats his wife, the wife has the right to abandon the violent husband.
> 
> If people are mistreated by an illegal Junta, they have the right to abandon the Junta.
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct about Trump. He has no loyalty to the European Union and, for some reason, he has given a sign that Americans will not honor their obligation under the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump is not loyal to the agenda of Globalists, but he is loyal to the interests of Europeans. For example, he pointed out that Frau Merkel is not representing the interests of Germans, opening the boarders of Germany to Third World migration, and I think that most German Normies share this opinion.
> 
> Trump pointed out that UK should leave the EU, and most Brits agreed with Trump.
> 
> So Trump has huge support of the Normies in Europe, that is the reason why Trump is so hated by the lying media and the corrupt EU-Establishment, that instigates hate against the Russian pople and their elected president.
> 
> But the warmongers have not achieved their goal, the Europeans cannot be stampeded into another fratricidal war so easily, as it was the case in the past.
> 
> The solidarity among white Christians is growing, because they are awakening and realising, that an undeclared war is waged against them by their corrupt political establishments, that are de facto puppets of Globalist banksters, and these Globalist banksters hate national states and national identities.
> 
> In the USA many representatives of the old Establishment even openly declared that their goal is the replacement of white Christians through "new Americans", speak Third World migrants.
> 
> These guys, that dropped their masks, are redpilling white Christians around the world even more that it is already the case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If Putin did not like what was happening in Ukraine, he still had no authority to order troops to annex Crimea.
> 
> Unlike Russia, the European media do not lie.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Eloy, please, lend me a thousand bucks for a three days...
> 
> And at Thursday we'll discuss your ANNEXATION of MY 1000 bucks....
Click to expand...

Forgive me but your posts are becoming less coherent.




.


----------



## sealybobo

Eloy said:


> Vladimir Putin learned well as he trained to be a KGB agent how to find a weakness in his opponents and exploit it. An example is how he is managing the European Union parts of which rely on Russia for energy, such as Germany. He knows Germany and the Germans well, having been a secret agent in Dresden when Angela Merkel, who speaks fluent Russian, lived in the Deutsche Demokratische Republik (DDR).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin in Dresden mid-1980s
> 
> In 1989 the wall in Berlin came down and the people in Dresden were feeling that their nationalism was in the ascent. The mob moved on the Ministry for State Security (Stasi) and then headed across the road to the KGB headquarters but before they could enter they were met by Vladimir Putin who told them that his men were armed and had permission to shoot. The small crowd left. Putin was seeing a type of German nationalism which was discouraged in the DDR under the thumb of Moscau. He left Germany and returned to Leningrad which people even there were beginning to call St. Petersburg. Like East Germany, nationalism was on the rise in the imploding Soviet Union. Putin saw first hand what this people power can do and he put his future in it with the contacts he had made with other KGB agents from Dresden. They are all now directors of former Soviet industries, now privatized and whose wealth goes into the pockets of Putin and pals.
> 
> Putin hates the European Union (EU) which has imposed hurting sanctions on Russia for invading Ukraine and annexing Crimea. EU member states in the east were under Soviet rule and, like East Germany, they have put their future into a partnership of nations but they are nervous of Russia. The Baltic states have native Russian speakers and Putin might just make a move. Poland and Hungary too throw a glance at Russia and wonder. Putin knows the weakness of the Europeans is their nationalism and he will work on this to pull asunder the EU just as it did in the DDR. The racism which is fundamental to nationalism can be exploited so that individual members who are rejecting the EU in favor of their own sense of identity as distinct from neighbors and better without them. Putin must be overjoyed that Britain is about to leave the EU (Brexit) and what a gift Donald Trump has given him by declaring that Nato is obsolete and he likes Putin.
> 
> This will be how the Kremlin will undermine the EU, making individual relationships with European nationalists, picking them off one at a time. This week  Heinz-Christian Strache, Austria's far right leader has signed an alliance with President Putin's United Russia party and has offered to act as a go-between for the Kremlin and Donal Trump. Well, what do you know, the birthplace of Aryan nationalist, Adolf Hitler, Austria's neo-Nazis might just be next to have an exit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heinz-Christian Strache leader of Austria's Freedom Party signed a co-operation agreement with Sergei Zheleznyak, United Russia's deputy leader who is subject to travel bans and asset freezes by the EU.


All of the lying leaders of the world (Putin, Assad & trump) are pushing this fake news crap Everytime they don't like the news it's fake despite the evidence


----------



## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Russian troops in Crimea were part of an agreement with the sovereign state of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this sovereign Ukraine was represented by an elected government, not by the Junta.
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> By annexing Crimea to Russia, Putin made an act of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the Junta in Kiev declared war on parts of Ukraine, and that is the reason why parts of Ukraine declared their independence from the Junta in Kiev and asked for reunification with Russia.
> 
> If a husband mistreats his wife, the wife has the right to abandon the violent husband.
> 
> If people are mistreated by an illegal Junta, they have the right to abandon the Junta.
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct about Trump. He has no loyalty to the European Union and, for some reason, he has given a sign that Americans will not honor their obligation under the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump is not loyal to the agenda of Globalists, but he is loyal to the interests of Europeans. For example, he pointed out that Frau Merkel is not representing the interests of Germans, opening the boarders of Germany to Third World migration, and I think that most German Normies share this opinion.
> 
> Trump pointed out that UK should leave the EU, and most Brits agreed with Trump.
> 
> So Trump has huge support of the Normies in Europe, that is the reason why Trump is so hated by the lying media and the corrupt EU-Establishment, that instigates hate against the Russian pople and their elected president.
> 
> But the warmongers have not achieved their goal, the Europeans cannot be stampeded into another fratricidal war so easily, as it was the case in the past.
> 
> The solidarity among white Christians is growing, because they are awakening and realising, that an undeclared war is waged against them by their corrupt political establishments, that are de facto puppets of Globalist banksters, and these Globalist banksters hate national states and national identities.
> 
> In the USA many representatives of the old Establishment even openly declared that their goal is the replacement of white Christians through "new Americans", speak Third World migrants.
> 
> These guys, that dropped their masks, are redpilling white Christians around the world even more that it is already the case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If Putin did not like what was happening in Ukraine, he still had no authority to order troops to annex Crimea.
> 
> Unlike Russia, the European media do not lie.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Eloy, please, lend me a thousand bucks for a three days...
> 
> And at Thursday we'll discuss your ANNEXATION of MY 1000 bucks....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Forgive me but your posts are becoming less coherent.
> 
> .
Click to expand...


Prove it


----------



## Eloy

Sbiker said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
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> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Russian troops in Crimea were part of an agreement with the sovereign state of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this sovereign Ukraine was represented by an elected government, not by the Junta.
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> By annexing Crimea to Russia, Putin made an act of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the Junta in Kiev declared war on parts of Ukraine, and that is the reason why parts of Ukraine declared their independence from the Junta in Kiev and asked for reunification with Russia.
> 
> If a husband mistreats his wife, the wife has the right to abandon the violent husband.
> 
> If people are mistreated by an illegal Junta, they have the right to abandon the Junta.
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct about Trump. He has no loyalty to the European Union and, for some reason, he has given a sign that Americans will not honor their obligation under the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump is not loyal to the agenda of Globalists, but he is loyal to the interests of Europeans. For example, he pointed out that Frau Merkel is not representing the interests of Germans, opening the boarders of Germany to Third World migration, and I think that most German Normies share this opinion.
> 
> Trump pointed out that UK should leave the EU, and most Brits agreed with Trump.
> 
> So Trump has huge support of the Normies in Europe, that is the reason why Trump is so hated by the lying media and the corrupt EU-Establishment, that instigates hate against the Russian pople and their elected president.
> 
> But the warmongers have not achieved their goal, the Europeans cannot be stampeded into another fratricidal war so easily, as it was the case in the past.
> 
> The solidarity among white Christians is growing, because they are awakening and realising, that an undeclared war is waged against them by their corrupt political establishments, that are de facto puppets of Globalist banksters, and these Globalist banksters hate national states and national identities.
> 
> In the USA many representatives of the old Establishment even openly declared that their goal is the replacement of white Christians through "new Americans", speak Third World migrants.
> 
> These guys, that dropped their masks, are redpilling white Christians around the world even more that it is already the case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If Putin did not like what was happening in Ukraine, he still had no authority to order troops to annex Crimea.
> 
> Unlike Russia, the European media do not lie.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Eloy, please, lend me a thousand bucks for a three days...
> 
> And at Thursday we'll discuss your ANNEXATION of MY 1000 bucks....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Forgive me but your posts are becoming less coherent.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prove it
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but you lost me with the 1000 bucks analogy to justify the annexation of Krim.




.


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## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> And this sovereign Ukraine was represented by an elected government, not by the Junta.
> 
> No, the Junta in Kiev declared war on parts of Ukraine, and that is the reason why parts of Ukraine declared their independence from the Junta in Kiev and asked for reunification with Russia.
> 
> If a husband mistreats his wife, the wife has the right to abandon the violent husband.
> 
> If people are mistreated by an illegal Junta, they have the right to abandon the Junta.
> 
> Trump is not loyal to the agenda of Globalists, but he is loyal to the interests of Europeans. For example, he pointed out that Frau Merkel is not representing the interests of Germans, opening the boarders of Germany to Third World migration, and I think that most German Normies share this opinion.
> 
> Trump pointed out that UK should leave the EU, and most Brits agreed with Trump.
> 
> So Trump has huge support of the Normies in Europe, that is the reason why Trump is so hated by the lying media and the corrupt EU-Establishment, that instigates hate against the Russian pople and their elected president.
> 
> But the warmongers have not achieved their goal, the Europeans cannot be stampeded into another fratricidal war so easily, as it was the case in the past.
> 
> The solidarity among white Christians is growing, because they are awakening and realising, that an undeclared war is waged against them by their corrupt political establishments, that are de facto puppets of Globalist banksters, and these Globalist banksters hate national states and national identities.
> 
> In the USA many representatives of the old Establishment even openly declared that their goal is the replacement of white Christians through "new Americans", speak Third World migrants.
> 
> These guys, that dropped their masks, are redpilling white Christians around the world even more that it is already the case.
> 
> 
> 
> If Putin did not like what was happening in Ukraine, he still had no authority to order troops to annex Crimea.
> 
> Unlike Russia, the European media do not lie.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Eloy, please, lend me a thousand bucks for a three days...
> 
> And at Thursday we'll discuss your ANNEXATION of MY 1000 bucks....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Forgive me but your posts are becoming less coherent.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prove it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry but you lost me with the 1000 bucks analogy to justify the annexation of Krim.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...


Crimea was Russian for centuries. Ukraine got it by corrupted Khrushev for a time to use - and now returned it. It's a FULL analogy, instead of your doublespeak force you to use "annexation" word. There are no need to "annexate", what's already have been yours...


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## Eloy

Sbiker said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Putin did not like what was happening in Ukraine, he still had no authority to order troops to annex Crimea.
> 
> Unlike Russia, the European media do not lie.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy, please, lend me a thousand bucks for a three days...
> 
> And at Thursday we'll discuss your ANNEXATION of MY 1000 bucks....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Forgive me but your posts are becoming less coherent.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prove it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry but you lost me with the 1000 bucks analogy to justify the annexation of Krim.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Crimea was Russian for centuries. Ukraine got it by corrupted Khrushev for a time to use - and now returned it. It's a FULL analogy, instead of your doublespeak force you to use "annexation" word. There are no need to "annexate", what's already have been yours...
Click to expand...

History cannot be changed. How Krim came to be part of Ukraine does not change the map and its annexation by ex-KGB operative Putin is illegal.




.


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## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy, please, lend me a thousand bucks for a three days...
> 
> And at Thursday we'll discuss your ANNEXATION of MY 1000 bucks....
> 
> 
> 
> Forgive me but your posts are becoming less coherent.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prove it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry but you lost me with the 1000 bucks analogy to justify the annexation of Krim.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Crimea was Russian for centuries. Ukraine got it by corrupted Khrushev for a time to use - and now returned it. It's a FULL analogy, instead of your doublespeak force you to use "annexation" word. There are no need to "annexate", what's already have been yours...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> History cannot be changed. How Krim came to be part of Ukraine does not change the map and its annexation by ex-KGB operative Putin is illegal.
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...


Let's be how you say. History cannot be changed. So, Crimea is a part of Russia for two years and cannot be returned. YOU SAID. Dixi.


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## Art__Allm

Eloy said:


> If Putin did not like what was happening in Ukraine, he still had no authority to order troops to annex Crimea.


The population of Crimea is happy with this "annexation", they asked for that. Nobody was ethnically cleansed, everybody was glad to throw away the Ukrainian citizenship and get Russian citizenship.

On the other hand the population of Palestine is ethnically cleansed by Zionists, but the lying media does not mind.



Eloy said:


> Unlike Russia, the European media do not lie.



Do you live in Europe?
What languages do you speak?
Do you speak Russian?
If not, how can you know anything about Russia?
I can speak 6 European languages, and I can tell you, that most European media is owned by a couple of globalist oligarchs who hate the European national states.
Why should these people, who hate us, Europeans, tell us the truth?

I cannot say that Russian media can be trusted 100%, but it can be trusted more than the lying media in Western countries.


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## Eloy

Art__Allm said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Putin did not like what was happening in Ukraine, he still had no authority to order troops to annex Crimea.
> 
> 
> 
> The population of Crimea is happy with this "annexation", they asked for that. Nobody was ethnically cleansed, everybody was glad to throw away the Ukrainian citizenship and get Russian citizenship.
> 
> On the other hand the population of Palestine is ethnically cleansed by Zionists, but the lying media does not mind.
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike Russia, the European media do not lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you live in Europe?
> What languages do you speak?
> Do you speak Russian?
> If not, how can you know anything about Russia?
> I can speak 6 European languages, and I can tell you, that most European media is owned by a couple of globalist oligarchs who hate the European national states.
> Why should these people, who hate us, Europeans, tell us the truth?
> 
> I cannot say that Russian media can be trusted 100%, but it can be trusted more than the lying media in Western countries.
Click to expand...

The ethnic Germans in Böhmen und Märin were happy to become part of the Third Reich but that did not give Hitler the right to annex the Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia in 1936.










.


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## ESay

Art__Allm said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> The lands of so-called Novorossia began to be populated by Ukrainians (or Malo-Russians as then official authorities called them)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They called themselves Russians, dude. The conflict between some Ukrainians and Russians is based on the notion that people who today call themselves Ukrainians are more Russian, than the Russians from today Russian Federation. So *Malo-Russians* was what the population of this provinces called themselves. And the population of today RF called themselves *Veliko-Russians*, because they had a bigger landmass.
> 
> And the All-Russian Tsars called themselves *"Tsar of all Russia, Veliko-Russia, Belo-Russia and Malo-Russia".*
> 
> They did not call themselves "Ukrainians" two hundred yeas ago, though some of them called their Malo-Russian province "Ukraine" (which literally means Province).
> 
> All people of Malo-Russia called themselves RUSSIANS, and most inhabitants of today Ukraine still call Themselves RUSSIANS.
> 
> In fact Malo-Russians (Ukrainians) believe that they are themselves more Russian, than Russians from the RF, though they lost their original language and religion due to the centuries of Polish occupation.
> 
> If you speak Russian, please explain this nuances to these American idiots who do not have any idea about the history of Old Russia and who do not understand what the conflict of Russians and Ukrainians is about. These American fools believe that if they instigate hate against Russians, they are pleasing Ukrainian people.
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainians call themselves RUSSIANS!
> 
> In fact, if a Ukrainian wants to insult a Russian, he calls him a Katzap, speak a non-Slavic Russian-speaking mongrel. Ukrainian Nationalists believe that Peter The Great had stolen the "Name" Russia from the Kievan Rus, and most Ukrainians hate the name of their today state, which literally means "Province". They claim the name "Russia" for themselves.
> 
> But how can idiots from the USA, who are unable to locate Ukraine on the map, understand such nuances or Russian history!?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> This map shows the mostly Ukrainian-spoken territories. I hope you can compare them with the territory of contemporary Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This map was faked.
> There were no"Ukraine" and no "Ukrainians" back then, there were Malo-Russians, these people spoke Malo-Russian dialects. Gogol, the great Russians writer, also spoke a Malo-Russian dialect. There were also Belo-Russian and Veliko-Russian dialects.
> 
> Peasants in different Russian provinces spoke different Russian dialects, but these Dialects were more similar, than say the Bavarian and Prussian dialects of the German language.
> 
> The today official Russian language was originally created by intellectuals in Sankt Petersburg, it was hugely influence by the French and German languages, because the Russian aristocracy used French to communicate with each other, and German was once the official language of the first Russian Universities, created by Peter the Great.
> 
> Gradually, the language, spoken in Sant Petersburg, became the official language of the Russian Empire, all intellectuals, including those in Malo-Russia switched to the Russian language of Santk Petersburg. That is why Gogol wrote his works in this language, not in his Malo-Russian dialect.
> 
> But the peasants in all Russian provinces, including Belo-Russia, Malo-Russia and Veliko-Russia (speak Great Russia) still used their old dialects, because they were illiterate.
> 
> Because Malo-Russia and Belo-Russia were more backward, than Great Russia, the peasants remained illiterate there for a longer time, than in Great Russia. In fact, the word "Ukraine", means "Province" or "Rimland", it was just a backward province of the Russian empire, that is why the name "Ukraine" (Province) eventually became the name of this Russian province.
> 
> The Bolsheviks used this backwardness of Malo-Russian and Belo-Russian peasantry to divide and conquer Russia.
> 
> That is the reason why the peasant dialects in Belo-Russia and Malo-Russia eventually became new Russian languages. The Bolsheviks used the illiteracy of peasants in Russian provinces and created the "Ukrainian" and "Belorussian" languages and national identities, which did not exist 200 years ago.
> 
> You could easily do this in Germany, too, and declare that Bavarian dialect is a separate language, because the inhabitants of Berlin cannot understand a Bavarian peasant, if this peasant did not manage to learn the official German languauge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Перепись населения Российской империи (1897) — Википедия
> Демоскоп Weekly - Приложение. Справочник статистических показателей.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This link fully support my arguments, there were no "Ukrainians" in the Russian Empire. There were different kinds of Russians. Belo-Russians, Malo-Russians and Veliko(Great)-Russians. Peasants in different Russian provinces spoke different kinds of Russian dialects, but these dialects were more similar, than different German dialects that are still spoken today by illiterate German peasants.
> 
> BTW, the "Ukrainian" language of Shevchenko was very different from the Ukrainian language, installed now by the Catholic Ukrainian Junta from the West-Ukraine. These parts of ancient Russia were for centuries under Polish domination, that is why the population of this region lost its original Orthodox Russian language (called Old Russian), and is now speaking a bizarre pigeon language, a mixture of Polish and Russian dialects.
Click to expand...

Well, to talk about all of that one should start from the very beginning, I think. The very beginning means the times when the Slavic tribes began to appear in these lands and when later the first principalities were founded. If I am not mistaken, there were 7 or so East-Slavic tribes at that time which settled in various parts of the Old Rus. After some time passed, they grew up economically, culturally and politically; mixed up with various ethnic groups which surrounded them. Later, the first principalities of the Old Rus were created which despite economical and cultural proximity, were de facto sovereign states. Later, these principalities were united by Kiev in a single state which is known now as Kievan Rus. This state existed as a single one during the time of Vladimir the Great and Yaroslav the Wise, after them there were wars between their descendants and the Kievan Rus de facto broke on independent principalities. After the Mongol invasion, the Moscow principality began to rise and its rulers claimed themselves as tsars of All Rus, though during the times of Kievan Rus it didn’t even existed.

Later, the most lands of Kievan Rus were incorporated in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania which after some time was transformed in Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. In the mid-17th there began a war between the Cossack Hetmanate and Poland. During this war hetman Khmelnitskiy signed a treaty with Russian tsar and the Hetmanate was eventually joined to the Tsardom of Russia.

So, what I want to say by posting all that staff. The Old Rus never was a monolith. Several tribes created Old-Rus ethnos and there were differences between people who lived in different parts of these lands, the differences kinda those we have now. There was political disunity and so on. Though the people of these lands called themselves a common name – Rusichi (Rusy, Rusiny), these differences existed. When the people of contemporary Ukraine began to call themselves Ukrainians rather than Russians, I can’t say for sure. Some say that this process began during the Hetmanate (though Khmelnitskiy called himself a Russian, if I remember correctly).  Some say that it began much later. But one thing can be said for sure – eventually the term Ukrainians replaced the term Russians in self-determination. Also, one more thing can be said for sure – contemporary Ukrainians are descendants of the people of Old Rus who lived on this land and who have every right on it. All claims of ‘Moscovits’ on these lands are laughable.



Art__Allm said:


> Ukrainians call themselves RUSSIANS!
> 
> In fact, if a Ukrainian wants to insult a Russian, he calls him a Katzap, speak a non-Slavic Russian-speaking mongrel. Ukrainian Nationalists believe that Peter The Great had stolen the "Name" Russia from the Kievan Rus, and most Ukrainians hate the name of their today state, which literally means "Province". They claim the name "Russia" for themselves.


I understand what you are trying to say. But I wouldn’t agree with you on this case. Now most people of Ukraine (even those who speak Russian in everyday life) consider themselves as Ukrainians. But again, we (Ukrainians) don’t draw a distinction between a Ukrainian and a Rusich of the old time; we draw a distinction between a Ukrainian and a Russian (ie that one who live in contemporary Russia). 



Art__Allm said:


> BTW, the "Ukrainian" language of Shevchenko was very different from the Ukrainian language, installed now by the Catholic Ukrainian Junta from the West-Ukraine. These parts of ancient Russia were for centuries under Polish domination, that is why the population of this region lost its original Orthodox Russian language (called Old Russian), and is now speaking a bizarre pigeon language, a mixture of Polish and Russian dialects.


Unless I am mistaken, the basis of the modern Ukrainian language is so-called Poltava dialect.


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## ESay

Sbiker said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainians did not exist 200 years ago! Ukraine was an artificial creation of anti-Russian and anti-Christian Commies, who were on the payroll of American banksters!
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Ukrainians began to consider themselves as a nation at least from the times of Hetmanate, if you know what this term means.
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a historical map, do you see any Ukraine there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What about a historical map of North America?
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> And if you look on the ethno-linguistic map of what was "Soviet Ukriane", then you will realise that big chunks of Russian land were given to Ukraine by the anti-Russian Soviet leaders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The lands of so-called Novorossia began to be populated by Ukrainians (or Malo-Russians as then official authorities called them) almost from the times they were incorporated by the Russian Empire. Read about All-Russian census in 1897 referring to languages. This map shows the mostly Ukrainian-spoken territories. I hope you can compare them with the territory of contemporary Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Could you give link to source of 1897 year, please?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Перепись населения Российской империи (1897) — Википедия
> Демоскоп Weekly - Приложение. Справочник статистических показателей.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really? Maybe, let's compare with source?
> 
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/East_Slavs_in_Russia_1897.JPG
> 
> You included in Malorossian territories where malorossian dialect consist of less than 50%.
> 
> _"Mister, if you ain't any slicker with that pistol than you were with that bottom deal, you'd better not have at it."  _
Click to expand...

Woody, unlike your map which shows distribution of Ukrainian-speakers by governorates my map shows the Ukrainian-speaking population not by governorates, but by actual territories where Ukrainian-speaking people were majority. For example, despite the Tavria governorate was mostly Ukrainian-speaking, the Crime peninsula is mostly depicted in grey because the Ukrainian-speakers were the minority there, though it belonged to the Tavria governorate. The same is true for some lands that now belongs to Russia, but in this case some counties is depicted as Ukrainian-speaking, though the governorates they belonged to had mostly Russian-speaking population.


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## Sbiker

ESay said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainians did not exist 200 years ago! Ukraine was an artificial creation of anti-Russian and anti-Christian Commies, who were on the payroll of American banksters!
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Ukrainians began to consider themselves as a nation at least from the times of Hetmanate, if you know what this term means.
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a historical map, do you see any Ukraine there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What about a historical map of North America?
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> And if you look on the ethno-linguistic map of what was "Soviet Ukriane", then you will realise that big chunks of Russian land were given to Ukraine by the anti-Russian Soviet leaders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The lands of so-called Novorossia began to be populated by Ukrainians (or Malo-Russians as then official authorities called them) almost from the times they were incorporated by the Russian Empire. Read about All-Russian census in 1897 referring to languages. This map shows the mostly Ukrainian-spoken territories. I hope you can compare them with the territory of contemporary Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Could you give link to source of 1897 year, please?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Перепись населения Российской империи (1897) — Википедия
> Демоскоп Weekly - Приложение. Справочник статистических показателей.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really? Maybe, let's compare with source?
> 
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/East_Slavs_in_Russia_1897.JPG
> 
> You included in Malorossian territories where malorossian dialect consist of less than 50%.
> 
> _"Mister, if you ain't any slicker with that pistol than you were with that bottom deal, you'd better not have at it."  _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Woody, unlike your map which shows distribution of Ukrainian-speakers by governorates my map shows the Ukrainian-speaking population not by governorates, but by actual territories where Ukrainian-speaking people were majority. For example, despite the Tavria governorate was mostly Ukrainian-speaking, the Crime peninsula is mostly depicted in grey because the Ukrainian-speakers were the minority there, though it belonged to the Tavria governorate. The same is true for some lands that now belongs to Russia, but in this case some counties is depicted as Ukrainian-speaking, though the governorates they belonged to had mostly Russian-speaking population.
Click to expand...


You could think up what you want, but I'm just using sources, YOU pointed. If this sources show statistic by region, how could you operate with statistic by territory? You either "mistaken" about statistic, either about sources...


And another point, making all this statistic useless. It's not about "ukrainian" language, using as standard in Kiev. It's about "surzhik" - local dialect, different in different regions. You point, for example, people in Korocha and people in Lviv as "ukrainian" language but if they could try to speak "at ukrainian" - they wouldn't understand either... Why, do you think, ukrainians use Russian so frequently? And they have, at least, standard of "Ukrainian" now...


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## Art__Allm

Eloy said:


> The ethnic Germans in Böhmen und Märin were happy to become part of the Third Reich but that did not give Hitler the right to annex the Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia in 1936.
> .



Playing the old and tired Nazi-Card?
Does this still work?
BTW, There was no Czechoslovakia in 1936, you missed your history classes.

This monster of Versailles, called  Czechoslovakia, collapsed before the Sudetengermans asked for reunification with Germany. Slovaks declared their independence first, and that was the end of pre-war Czechoslovakia.

Forget your Mickey-Mouse-Version of history, read primary sources, and you will find out that I am right.

After WWII  Czechoslovakia was restored, but this artificial creation could only exist under Communist dictatorship. As soon as people in this artificial state got the opportunity to vote for their self determination, they separated into Slovakia and Czechia.

I think that Ukraine should do the same: just peacefully separate into different states, like it did the people of former Czechoslovakia.

According to your crazy logic it is something bad when people have the right to self-determination.

In Palestine Zionists ethnically cleans native Semites from their land, keep them in open air concentration camps, like Gaza, and then "treat" these Semitic civilians with white phosphor and cast lead, but the lying media does not call for a war with Israel.

What do you want to do with the people of Crimea who are happy with Russian citizenship? How can you force them again into Ukraine?
Do you not realise that they will not accept that?

They will rather die, than become Ukrainian citizens.

Are you advocating for WWIII and an ethnic cleansing of the Crimean Peninsula and New Russia, like it was the case after WWII with German civilians, who were ethnically cleansed from their land?

Do you not realise that these crimes are now condemned by the international law?

Well, I hope that Europeans have learned from history and will not be stampeded into WWIII and into new ethnic cleansing.

We just have to accept the right of Crimean population to self-determination, the same with the people of New Russia.

I hope that the warmongers, who instigate hate among Europeans and push for WWIII, will this time not get their way.


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## Art__Allm

ESay said:


> Later, these principalities were united by Kiev in a single state which is known now as Kievan Rus. This state existed as a single one during the time of Vladimir the Great and Yaroslav the Wise, after them there were wars between their descendants and the Kievan Rus de facto broke on independent principalities. After the Mongol invasion, the Moscow principality began to rise and its rulers claimed themselves as tsars of All Rus, though during the times of Kievan Rus it didn’t even existed.



Well, in medieval times the land was inherited by the ruling dynasty. The throne passed from father to son.
The Kievan Rus was created by Rurik, he was a Viking.
His descendants had the right to call themselves Tsars.
They moved their capital many times, after Kiev it was Moscow, after Moscow it was Sankt Petersburg.
As you said, Kievan Rus was destroyed, speak there were no rulers from Rurik's dynasty any more who lived in Kiev.
And that is precicely the reason why Ukraine became a province: Украина = Окраина. There was still old Russian population, but they were peasants, ruled by Polish pans.



ESay said:


> Later, the most lands of Kievan Rus were incorporated in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania which after some time was transformed in Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. In the mid-17th there began a war between the Cossack Hetmanate and Poland. During this war hetman Khmelnitskiy signed a treaty with Russian tsar and the Hetmanate was eventually joined to the Tsardom of Russia.



Yes, and these Cossacks did not call themselves "Ukrainians", they were Orthodox Christians. That is why they joined the Tsardom.



ESay said:


> So, what I want to say by posting all that staff. The Old Rus never was a monolith. Several tribes created Old-Rus ethnos and there were differences between people who lived in different parts of these lands, the differences kinda those we have now. There was political disunity and so on. Though the people of these lands called themselves a common name – Rusichi (Rusy, Rusiny), these differences existed.



The same with Bavarians and Prussians in today Germany, they were and still are more different, than different Russian tribes in Russia, who could easily understand each other, because their languages were very similar.
Different German dialects are so different, that Germans can only communicate with each another using the Hochdeutsch (official German language).



ESay said:


> When the people of contemporary Ukraine began to call themselves Ukrainians rather than Russians, I can’t say for sure. Some say that this process began during the Hetmanate (though Khmelnitskiy called himself a Russian, if I remember correctly).  Some say that it began much later.
> But one thing can be said for sure – eventually the term Ukrainians replaced the term Russians in self-determination



Yes, because Bolsheviks needed the support of separatists, they used the divide and conquer tactics against the Tsar. They supported the minorities against the majority, and created new identities, like Ukrainians.

The same can be done with Germany. You can call the Bavarians a sepate nation and support Bavarian separatists (they exist), support the Bavarian dialect, call this dialect a separate language, and eventually you will create a separate Bavarian nation. The same was done with Austrians after WWII. All Austrians called themselves Germans before WWII, after WWII there was a massive anti-German propaganda and eventually Austrian Germans decided that they are not German any more, though they speak the same language the Germans do.



ESay said:


> Also, one more thing can be said for sure – contemporary Ukrainians are descendants of the people of Old Rus who lived on this land and who have every right on it. All claims of ‘Moscovits’ on these lands are laughable.



I think that different provinces of Ukraine have different identities, Crimean population asked for reunification with Russia. The population of Novo-Russia did the same, but Russian parliament refused the request.

The people in Western provinces may ask Polish parliament  for re-unification with Poland, and I do not think that Russia will mind this.

Some central provinces of Ukraine may vote for remaining an Independent state, and I do not think that Moscow will mind this.

So I think that Ukrainians should be as clever, as Czechoslovakians. The people of this artificial state peacefully separated, because they had different identities, and this was the best solution.



ESay said:


> I understand what you are trying to say. But I wouldn’t agree with you on this case. Now most people of Ukraine (even those who speak Russian in everyday life) consider themselves as Ukrainians.



I do not see any contradiction. Most Bavarians consider themselves Bavarians, but they do not mind when they are called Germans, too.



ESay said:


> But again, we (Ukrainians) don’t draw a distinction between a Ukrainian and a Rusich of the old time; we draw a distinction between a Ukrainian and a Russian (ie that one who live in contemporary Russia).



Well, that depends from the region of Ukraine. There is no sharp boarder between the Ukraine and today RF, because this boarder is an artificial boarder. It is obvious that some parts of Ukraine did not feel like remaining in a state that is hostile to Russia. They may just become an independent state, say Tavria or New Russia. And the people of the Crimean Peninsula have a Russian identity, that is a fact.

The problem with Ukrainian identity is that it is very difficult to create a modern culture. Russian culture is very rich, it has deep roots, there were many world known Russian writers, Gogol is also known as a Russian writer, though Ukrainians may claim that he was a Ukrainian.

You cannot create a culture in a couple of decades, that is why most Ukrainians watch Russian television and they can express themselves better, when they speak Russian. 

The Ukrainian TV is very boring. You cannot create a national culture per political decision, the process of cultural growth is very subtile, and you need centuries to create a culture.


----------



## theHawk

Eloy said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
> 
> 
> 
> President Assad of Syria would agree with you.
Click to expand...


Is he supposed to disagree and prefer Obama who tried to have him killed.


----------



## Eloy

Art__Allm said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The ethnic Germans in Böhmen und Märin were happy to become part of the Third Reich but that did not give Hitler the right to annex the Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia in 1936.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Playing the old and tired Nazi-Card?
> Does this still work?
> BTW, There was no Czechoslovakia in 1936, you missed your history classes.
Click to expand...

And in what school did you learn that "There was no Czechoslovakia in 1936", I wonder.





Ethnic German area marked in red.



Art__Allm said:


> I think that Ukraine should do the same: just peacefully separate into different states, like it did the people of former Czechoslovakia.


There is nothing peaceful about a Russian-backed army of rebels belligerently declaring they are part of Russia.



Art__Allm said:


> According to your crazy logic it is something bad when people have the right to self-determination.


Ukraine was a country which got independence from the Soviet with a clearly defined border and which included Krim and its eastern region. It is for the government of all Ukraine in Kiev to sort-out the need for communities within its sovereign border to accommodate wishes of self-determination. It sjould be done legally and peacefully, not from Russian invasion.



Art__Allm said:


> In Palestine Zionists ethnically cleans native Semites from their land, keep them in open air concentration camps, like Gaza, and then "treat" these Semitic civilians with white phosphor and cast lead, but the lying media does not call for a war with Israel.


I do not see a comparison with the Israel problem and what is happening in Ukraine.



Art__Allm said:


> What do you want to do with the people of Crimea who are happy with Russian citizenship? How can you force them again into Ukraine?
> Do you not realise that they will not accept that?


They are Ukrainian citizens. If they have a case for secession, it is best worked-out with Kiev.



Art__Allm said:


> They will rather die, than become Ukrainian citizens.


They are Ukrainian citizens and they were not dying.



Art__Allm said:


> Are you advocating for WWIII and an ethnic cleansing of the Crimean Peninsula and New Russia, like it was the case after WWII with German civilians, who were ethnically cleansed from their land?


No.



Art__Allm said:


> Do you not realise that these crimes are now condemned by the international law?


It is against international law for Russia to annex Crimea and foment civil war in eastern Ukraine.



Art__Allm said:


> Well, I hope that Europeans have learned from history and will not be stampeded into WWIII and into new ethnic cleansing.


The Russians know that Europeans do not want war but they should also know that we will resist a new Russian Empire to be established again in Europe.



Art__Allm said:


> We just have to accept the right of Crimean population to self-determination, the same with the people of New Russia.


This is a matter for the Ukrainian people, not the Russians.

[QUOTE="Art__Allm, post: 16567891, member: 46985"I hope that the warmongers, who instigate hate among Europeans and push for WWIII, will this time not get their way.[/QUOTE]
The only war mongering has come from the Russians and the rebels in the east. It is pitiful that the Russians have not yet learned to talk instead of making war.


----------



## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Ukraine was a country which got independence from the Soviet with a clearly defined border and which included Krim and its eastern region.



First lies of your propaganda. In January 1991 Crimea had referendum for creation of autonomous Crimea Republic, like a subject of USSR. But local Ukrainian authorities in February ignored results of this referendum, in-fact, annexed Crimea back to Ukraine. It was ANNEXATION OF CRIMEA BY UKRAINE. SO, then were a several steps, where Ukraine forced Crimean citizens to accept Ukrainian citizenship, they cancelled Crimea president, destroyed Crimea parlament and so on.

So, Crimea people now know, there are no inrenational law in Europe, except brute force. It's logically, they asked to defend Crimea population from nazi aggression - and got it.

If you want to back to lafwul solution - Ukraine is third in a queue, after Osman Empire )



> They are Ukrainian citizens.



Lies of Western propaganda. Acts of March 1995 year of cancelling Crimea autonomous status were accepted with a violation of international law. They are not valid, so Crimean citizens didn't have Ukrainian citizenship anywhere...



> It is against international law for Russia to annex Crimea and foment civil war in eastern Ukraine.



Ukraine annexed Crimea first. Why don't you start to defend "international law" from Ukraine, heh? ) 



> It is pitiful that the Russians have not yet learned to talk instead of making war.



How double-faced )) Every Russian knosw, Europeans are a beasts, which don't ruled by laws, don't keep agreements and understand only brute force. If someone has a doubts - they just have to look on Crimea, where EU propaganda ignores ALL law considerations, on Donetsk, where EU commitee corrupted by nazi, continuing to murdering civilians, and on Baltic countries, where NATO increasing naval forces.... Will YOU believe to EU, being Russian?


----------



## Eloy

Sbiker said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine was a country which got independence from the Soviet with a clearly defined border and which included Krim and its eastern region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First lies of your propaganda. In January 1991 Crimea had referendum for creation of autonomous Crimea Republic, like a subject of USSR. But local Ukrainian authorities in February ignored results of this referendum, in-fact, annexed Crimea back to Ukraine. It was ANNEXATION OF CRIMEA BY UKRAINE. SO, then were a several steps, where Ukraine forced Crimean citizens to accept Ukrainian citizenship, they cancelled Crimea president, destroyed Crimea parlament and so on.
> 
> So, Crimea people now know, there are no inrenational law in Europe, except brute force. It's logically, they asked to defend Crimea population from nazi aggression - and got it.
> 
> If you want to back to lafwul solution - Ukraine is third in a queue, after Osman Empire )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are Ukrainian citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lies of Western propaganda. Acts of March 1995 year of cancelling Crimea autonomous status were accepted with a violation of international law. They are not valid, so Crimean citizens didn't have Ukrainian citizenship anywhere...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is against international law for Russia to annex Crimea and foment civil war in eastern Ukraine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ukraine annexed Crimea first. Why don't you start to defend "international law" from Ukraine, heh? )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is pitiful that the Russians have not yet learned to talk instead of making war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How double-faced )) Every Russian knosw, Europeans are a beasts, which don't ruled by laws, don't keep agreements and understand only brute force. If someone has a doubts - they just have to look on Crimea, where EU propaganda ignores ALL law considerations, on Donetsk, where EU commitee corrupted by nazi, continuing to murdering civilians, and on Baltic countries, where NATO increasing naval forces.... Will YOU believe to EU, being Russian?
Click to expand...

I think you must read the government newspapers and TV in Russia.
I do not see anything in what you write that resembles truth.


----------



## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine was a country which got independence from the Soviet with a clearly defined border and which included Krim and its eastern region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First lies of your propaganda. In January 1991 Crimea had referendum for creation of autonomous Crimea Republic, like a subject of USSR. But local Ukrainian authorities in February ignored results of this referendum, in-fact, annexed Crimea back to Ukraine. It was ANNEXATION OF CRIMEA BY UKRAINE. SO, then were a several steps, where Ukraine forced Crimean citizens to accept Ukrainian citizenship, they cancelled Crimea president, destroyed Crimea parlament and so on.
> 
> So, Crimea people now know, there are no inrenational law in Europe, except brute force. It's logically, they asked to defend Crimea population from nazi aggression - and got it.
> 
> If you want to back to lafwul solution - Ukraine is third in a queue, after Osman Empire )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are Ukrainian citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lies of Western propaganda. Acts of March 1995 year of cancelling Crimea autonomous status were accepted with a violation of international law. They are not valid, so Crimean citizens didn't have Ukrainian citizenship anywhere...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is against international law for Russia to annex Crimea and foment civil war in eastern Ukraine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ukraine annexed Crimea first. Why don't you start to defend "international law" from Ukraine, heh? )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is pitiful that the Russians have not yet learned to talk instead of making war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How double-faced )) Every Russian knosw, Europeans are a beasts, which don't ruled by laws, don't keep agreements and understand only brute force. If someone has a doubts - they just have to look on Crimea, where EU propaganda ignores ALL law considerations, on Donetsk, where EU commitee corrupted by nazi, continuing to murdering civilians, and on Baltic countries, where NATO increasing naval forces.... Will YOU believe to EU, being Russian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think you must read the government newspapers and TV in Russia.
> I do not see anything in what you write that resembles truth.
Click to expand...


I think govermnent newspapers and TV in Russia can lie, as in other countries. Don't be a zombie, let's discuss a FACTS. Starting with it:

wiki: Crimean sovereignty referendum, 1991 - Wikipedia

So, question, really interesting to me.  Will YOU believe to EU, being Russian?


----------



## Eloy

Sbiker said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine was a country which got independence from the Soviet with a clearly defined border and which included Krim and its eastern region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First lies of your propaganda. In January 1991 Crimea had referendum for creation of autonomous Crimea Republic, like a subject of USSR. But local Ukrainian authorities in February ignored results of this referendum, in-fact, annexed Crimea back to Ukraine. It was ANNEXATION OF CRIMEA BY UKRAINE. SO, then were a several steps, where Ukraine forced Crimean citizens to accept Ukrainian citizenship, they cancelled Crimea president, destroyed Crimea parlament and so on.
> 
> So, Crimea people now know, there are no inrenational law in Europe, except brute force. It's logically, they asked to defend Crimea population from nazi aggression - and got it.
> 
> If you want to back to lafwul solution - Ukraine is third in a queue, after Osman Empire )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are Ukrainian citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lies of Western propaganda. Acts of March 1995 year of cancelling Crimea autonomous status were accepted with a violation of international law. They are not valid, so Crimean citizens didn't have Ukrainian citizenship anywhere...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is against international law for Russia to annex Crimea and foment civil war in eastern Ukraine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ukraine annexed Crimea first. Why don't you start to defend "international law" from Ukraine, heh? )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is pitiful that the Russians have not yet learned to talk instead of making war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How double-faced )) Every Russian knosw, Europeans are a beasts, which don't ruled by laws, don't keep agreements and understand only brute force. If someone has a doubts - they just have to look on Crimea, where EU propaganda ignores ALL law considerations, on Donetsk, where EU commitee corrupted by nazi, continuing to murdering civilians, and on Baltic countries, where NATO increasing naval forces.... Will YOU believe to EU, being Russian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think you must read the government newspapers and TV in Russia.
> I do not see anything in what you write that resembles truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think govermnent newspapers and TV in Russia can lie, as in other countries. Don't be a zombie, let's discuss a FACTS. Starting with it:
> 
> wiki: Crimean sovereignty referendum, 1991 - Wikipedia
> 
> So, question, really interesting to me.  Will YOU believe to EU, being Russian?
Click to expand...

I agree with what the European media reported about  the Russian annexation of Crimea. It was illegal, not how things should be done.


----------



## Tehon

Eloy said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine was a country which got independence from the Soviet with a clearly defined border and which included Krim and its eastern region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First lies of your propaganda. In January 1991 Crimea had referendum for creation of autonomous Crimea Republic, like a subject of USSR. But local Ukrainian authorities in February ignored results of this referendum, in-fact, annexed Crimea back to Ukraine. It was ANNEXATION OF CRIMEA BY UKRAINE. SO, then were a several steps, where Ukraine forced Crimean citizens to accept Ukrainian citizenship, they cancelled Crimea president, destroyed Crimea parlament and so on.
> 
> So, Crimea people now know, there are no inrenational law in Europe, except brute force. It's logically, they asked to defend Crimea population from nazi aggression - and got it.
> 
> If you want to back to lafwul solution - Ukraine is third in a queue, after Osman Empire )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are Ukrainian citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lies of Western propaganda. Acts of March 1995 year of cancelling Crimea autonomous status were accepted with a violation of international law. They are not valid, so Crimean citizens didn't have Ukrainian citizenship anywhere...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is against international law for Russia to annex Crimea and foment civil war in eastern Ukraine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ukraine annexed Crimea first. Why don't you start to defend "international law" from Ukraine, heh? )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is pitiful that the Russians have not yet learned to talk instead of making war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How double-faced )) Every Russian knosw, Europeans are a beasts, which don't ruled by laws, don't keep agreements and understand only brute force. If someone has a doubts - they just have to look on Crimea, where EU propaganda ignores ALL law considerations, on Donetsk, where EU commitee corrupted by nazi, continuing to murdering civilians, and on Baltic countries, where NATO increasing naval forces.... Will YOU believe to EU, being Russian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think you must read the government newspapers and TV in Russia.
> I do not see anything in what you write that resembles truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think govermnent newspapers and TV in Russia can lie, as in other countries. Don't be a zombie, let's discuss a FACTS. Starting with it:
> 
> wiki: Crimean sovereignty referendum, 1991 - Wikipedia
> 
> So, question, really interesting to me.  Will YOU believe to EU, being Russian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with what the European media reported about  the Russian annexation of Crimea. It was illegal, not how things should be done.
Click to expand...

There was nothing wrong with it. The International Court of Justice ruled as much on Kosovo's declaration of independence.


----------



## Art__Allm

Eloy said:


> And in what school did you learn that "There was no Czechoslovakia in 1936", I wonder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic German area marked in red.



You talked about annexing Sudetenland in 1936, not me. I just quoted your post.


The Sudetenland was relegated to Germany between 1 October and 10 October 1938, the Western powers accepted this deal.

In 1936 the artificial creation of Versatile still existed.

On 14 March 1939 the Slovak Parliament unanimously declared Slovak independence, in other words Czechoslovakia existed only till 14 March 1939.

On the morning of 15 March German troops entered Bohemia and Moravia, but there was no Czechoslovakia at this time any more.

So German troops could not invade Czechoslovakia, this artificial state collapsed a day before. Can you get my drift?



Eloy said:


> There is nothing peaceful about a Russian-backed army of rebels belligerently declaring they are part of Russia.



These freedom fighters are supported by the majority of the population in East Ukraine, and you know that. The Junta did not accept their declaration of independents and declared a war against their own former citizens, killing civilians. If the Russian state really supported these freedom fighters, they would have already destroyed the Junta in Kiev.
No, the Russian state does not support these freedom fighters, they are only supported by volunteers from Russia.



Eloy said:


> Ukraine was a country which got independence from the Soviet with a clearly defined border and which included Krim and its eastern region.



That were the boarders of the Soviet Republic Ukraine, created by Communist dictators, like Stalin and Khrushchev, who were not Russians, and Russian people in what became Soviet Ukraine were not asked, if they are happy with these artificial boarders.

Do you really believe that the decision of Communist dictators, like Stalin and Khrushchev, was a just decision?



Eloy said:


> It is for the government of all Ukraine in Kiev to sort-out the need for communities within its sovereign border to accommodate wishes of self-determination. It sjould be done legally and peacefully, not from Russian invasion.



Russia did not invade the Crimean peninsula, it is idiotic to repeat this nonsense. Russian troops were already there, so there was no invasion.

Well, there was no legal and peaceful transition of power from the elected Ukrainian government to the Junta. Junta violated the Ukrainian constitution, speak the old Ukraine was destroyed by the Junta. It is idiotic to talk about a "peaceful" and "legal" process, after the Putsch in Kiev.

If there was a Putsch in the USA, if there would be such a transition of power in America, many states would declare their Independence from the Junta, and you could not blame them for this decision.



Eloy said:


> I do not see a comparison with the Israel problem and what is happening in Ukraine.



What?
You are talking about international law and order, and say that Crimean population illegally separated from the Junta in Kiev.
But in the case of Israel you close the eye on the fact that Israel ethnically cleansed Palestine and annexed Palestinian land AGAINST the will of the native Semitic population. Is this not double standard?



Eloy said:


> They are Ukrainian citizens. If they have a case for secession, it is best worked-out with Kiev.



They have rejected Ukrainian citizenship, that was forced upon them after the collapse of the SU, and they are now citizens of the RF, which was really their own free choice since Khrushchev sold them to the Soviet Ukraine.



Eloy said:


> It is against international law for Russia to annex Crimea and foment civil war in eastern Ukraine.



Well, there was no peaceful and legal transition of power from the elected Ukrainian government to the Junta, they got power via violation of the Ukrainian constitution. De Jure Ukrainian state did not exist after the Putsch, and the population of Crimea did not have any obligation to the Jutna. Their decision to reunite with Russia is understandable, and international law grants the right to self determination to people. There was no ethnic cleansing, the population is happy with its new status.

Where is the problem?

On the other hand, Israel ethnically cleansed Palestinian land.

The annexation of this cleansed Palestinian land was against the will of the native Semitic population, and that is a clear violation of the international law.

So before accusing Russia of any violation, the international community should solve the Palestinian problem, where people really suffer.



Eloy said:


> The Russians know that Europeans do not want war but they should also know that we will resist a new Russian Empire to be established again in Europe.



The Soviet Union was an anti-Russian empire. If it was a Russian Empire, Soviet Leaders would not sell parts of Russia to Ukraine.



Eloy said:


> This is a matter for the Ukrainian people, not the Russians.



Ukraine was an artificial creation, and Ukrainian people, too. Parts of Ukraine do not want to be ruled by the Junta in Kiev, and nobody can blame them for that.

In the USA the most states would separate from Washington, if the elected American president was replaced by a violent Putsch, and the constitutional judges were imprisoned by the Junta.



Eloy said:


> The only war mongering has come from the Russians and the rebels in the east. It is pitiful that the Russians have not yet learned to talk instead of making war.



Do not blame the internal problems of Ukraine on Russians.
The Putsch in Kiev was not financed by Russians, it was financed by the Obama administration, by the "Fuck-the-EU-Nuland", by Soros and Co.
And it is understandable that parts of Ukrainian population were not happy with this violent and illegal transition of power.

The lying media wined about the supposed "Russian hacking" of American elections, the presstitutes claimed that there was no just transition of power from Obama to Trump, because some hackers exposed the crimes of DNS and Clintons.

Some warmongers wanted to declare war on Russia, because they believed that Russian hackers exposed the crimes of Killary, and that because of that she was not elected.

But compare this to the transition of power from the elected Ukrainian government to the Junta?

The Putsch was literally financed by Soros and Co, protesters were literally on the payroll of foreign governments.

What were Ukrainians, who did not support this anti-Russian hate campaign, supposed to do?

Sorry, but your argumentation is so dishonest, the double standard is right in your face.


----------



## Eloy

Art__Allm said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And in what school did you learn that "There was no Czechoslovakia in 1936", I wonder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic German area marked in red.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You talked about annexing Sudetenland in 1936, not me. I just quoted your post.
> 
> 
> The Sudetenland was relegated to Germany between 1 October and 10 October 1938, the Western powers accepted this deal.
> 
> In 1936 the artificial creation of Versatile still existed.
> 
> On 14 March 1939 the Slovak Parliament unanimously declared Slovak independence, in other words Czechoslovakia existed only till 14 March 1939.
> 
> On the morning of 15 March German troops entered Bohemia and Moravia, but there was no Czechoslovakia at this time any more.
> 
> So German troops could not invade Czechoslovakia, this artificial state collapsed a day before. Can you get my drift?
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is nothing peaceful about a Russian-backed army of rebels belligerently declaring they are part of Russia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> These freedom fighters are supported by the majority of the population in East Ukraine, and you know that. The Junta did not accept their declaration of independents and declared a war against their own former citizens, killing civilians. If the Russian state really supported these freedom fighters, they would have already destroyed the Junta in Kiev.
> No, the Russian state does not support these freedom fighters, they are only supported by volunteers from Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine was a country which got independence from the Soviet with a clearly defined border and which included Krim and its eastern region.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That were the boarders of the Soviet Republic Ukraine, created by Communist dictators, like Stalin and Khrushchev, who were not Russians, and Russian people in what became Soviet Ukraine were not asked, if they are happy with these artificial boarders.
> 
> Do you really believe that the decision of Communist dictators, like Stalin and Khrushchev, was a just decision?
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is for the government of all Ukraine in Kiev to sort-out the need for communities within its sovereign border to accommodate wishes of self-determination. It sjould be done legally and peacefully, not from Russian invasion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Russia did not invade the Crimean peninsula, it is idiotic to repeat this nonsense. Russian troops were already there, so there was no invasion.
> 
> Well, there was no legal and peaceful transition of power from the elected Ukrainian government to the Junta. Junta violated the Ukrainian constitution, speak the old Ukraine was destroyed by the Junta. It is idiotic to talk about a "peaceful" and "legal" process, after the Putsch in Kiev.
> 
> If there was a Putsch in the USA, if there would be such a transition of power in America, many states would declare their Independence from the Junta, and you could not blame them for this decision.
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see a comparison with the Israel problem and what is happening in Ukraine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What?
> You are talking about international law and order, and say that Crimean population illegally separated from the Junta in Kiev.
> But in the case of Israel you close the eye on the fact that Israel ethnically cleansed Palestine and annexed Palestinian land AGAINST the will of the native Semitic population. Is this not double standard?
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are Ukrainian citizens. If they have a case for secession, it is best worked-out with Kiev.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have rejected Ukrainian citizenship, that was forced upon them after the collapse of the SU, and they are now citizens of the RF, which was really their own free choice since Khrushchev sold them to the Soviet Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is against international law for Russia to annex Crimea and foment civil war in eastern Ukraine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, there was no peaceful and legal transition of power from the elected Ukrainian government to the Junta, they got power via violation of the Ukrainian constitution. De Jure Ukrainian state did not exist after the Putsch, and the population of Crimea did not have any obligation to the Jutna. Their decision to reunite with Russia is understandable, and international law grants the right to self determination to people. There was no ethnic cleansing, the population is happy with its new status.
> 
> Where is the problem?
> 
> On the other hand, Israel ethnically cleansed Palestinian land.
> 
> The annexation of this cleansed Palestinian land was against the will of the native Semitic population, and that is a clear violation of the international law.
> 
> So before accusing Russia of any violation, the international community should solve the Palestinian problem, where people really suffer.
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Russians know that Europeans do not want war but they should also know that we will resist a new Russian Empire to be established again in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Soviet Union was an anti-Russian empire. If it was a Russian Empire, Soviet Leaders would not sell parts of Russia to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a matter for the Ukrainian people, not the Russians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ukraine was an artificial creation, and Ukrainian people, too. Parts of Ukraine do not want to be ruled by the Junta in Kiev, and nobody can blame them for that.
> 
> In the USA the most states would separate from Washington, if the elected American president was replaced by a violent Putsch, and the constitutional judges were imprisoned by the Junta.
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only war mongering has come from the Russians and the rebels in the east. It is pitiful that the Russians have not yet learned to talk instead of making war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do not blame the internal problems of Ukraine on Russians.
> The Putsch in Kiev was not financed by Russians, it was financed by the Obama administration, by the "Fuck-the-EU-Nuland", by Soros and Co.
> And it is understandable that parts of Ukrainian population were not happy with this violent and illegal transition of power.
> 
> The lying media wined about the supposed "Russian hacking" of American elections, the presstitutes claimed that there was no just transition of power from Obama to Trump, because some hackers exposed the crimes of DNS and Clintons.
> 
> Some warmongers wanted to declare war on Russia, because they believed that Russian hackers exposed the crimes of Killary, and that because of that she was not elected.
> 
> But compare this to the transition of power from the elected Ukrainian government to the Junta?
> 
> The Putsch was literally financed by Soros and Co, protesters were literally on the payroll of foreign governments.
> 
> What were Ukrainians, who did not support this anti-Russian hate campaign, supposed to do?
> 
> Sorry, but your argumentation is so dishonest, the double standard is right in your face.
Click to expand...

Your post is too long and too full of errors to answer every detail.

You missed the salient point that the Third Reich moved into Czechoslovakia to unite the German speakers to the Reich. This is what Putin is doing with Crimea and eastern Ukraine.


----------



## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine was a country which got independence from the Soviet with a clearly defined border and which included Krim and its eastern region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First lies of your propaganda. In January 1991 Crimea had referendum for creation of autonomous Crimea Republic, like a subject of USSR. But local Ukrainian authorities in February ignored results of this referendum, in-fact, annexed Crimea back to Ukraine. It was ANNEXATION OF CRIMEA BY UKRAINE. SO, then were a several steps, where Ukraine forced Crimean citizens to accept Ukrainian citizenship, they cancelled Crimea president, destroyed Crimea parlament and so on.
> 
> So, Crimea people now know, there are no inrenational law in Europe, except brute force. It's logically, they asked to defend Crimea population from nazi aggression - and got it.
> 
> If you want to back to lafwul solution - Ukraine is third in a queue, after Osman Empire )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are Ukrainian citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lies of Western propaganda. Acts of March 1995 year of cancelling Crimea autonomous status were accepted with a violation of international law. They are not valid, so Crimean citizens didn't have Ukrainian citizenship anywhere...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is against international law for Russia to annex Crimea and foment civil war in eastern Ukraine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ukraine annexed Crimea first. Why don't you start to defend "international law" from Ukraine, heh? )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is pitiful that the Russians have not yet learned to talk instead of making war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How double-faced )) Every Russian knosw, Europeans are a beasts, which don't ruled by laws, don't keep agreements and understand only brute force. If someone has a doubts - they just have to look on Crimea, where EU propaganda ignores ALL law considerations, on Donetsk, where EU commitee corrupted by nazi, continuing to murdering civilians, and on Baltic countries, where NATO increasing naval forces.... Will YOU believe to EU, being Russian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think you must read the government newspapers and TV in Russia.
> I do not see anything in what you write that resembles truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think govermnent newspapers and TV in Russia can lie, as in other countries. Don't be a zombie, let's discuss a FACTS. Starting with it:
> 
> wiki: Crimean sovereignty referendum, 1991 - Wikipedia
> 
> So, question, really interesting to me.  Will YOU believe to EU, being Russian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with what the European media reported about  the Russian annexation of Crimea. It was illegal, not how things should be done.
Click to expand...


Please, ask my question, I'm trying to ask you third time. Will YOU believe to EU, being Russian? Just imagine what do you want, and tell.


----------



## Sbiker

Art__Allm said:


> The Soviet Union was an anti-Russian empire.



At least, Soviet Union didn't suffer competitors in anti-Russian politics )))

It's interesting, what are they thinking about, continuing to suppress Russia in current situation?


----------



## Billo_Really

Eloy said:


> Vladimir Putin learned well as he trained to be a KGB agent how to find a weakness in his opponents and exploit it. An example is how he is managing the European Union parts of which rely on Russia for energy, such as Germany. He knows Germany and the Germans well, having been a secret agent in Dresden when Angela Merkel, who speaks fluent Russian, lived in the Deutsche Demokratische Republik (DDR).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin in Dresden mid-1980s
> 
> In 1989 the wall in Berlin came down and the people in Dresden were feeling that their nationalism was in the ascent. The mob moved on the Ministry for State Security (Stasi) and then headed across the road to the KGB headquarters but before they could enter they were met by Vladimir Putin who told them that his men were armed and had permission to shoot. The small crowd left. Putin was seeing a type of German nationalism which was discouraged in the DDR under the thumb of Moscau. He left Germany and returned to Leningrad which people even there were beginning to call St. Petersburg. Like East Germany, nationalism was on the rise in the imploding Soviet Union. Putin saw first hand what this people power can do and he put his future in it with the contacts he had made with other KGB agents from Dresden. They are all now directors of former Soviet industries, now privatized and whose wealth goes into the pockets of Putin and pals.
> 
> Putin hates the European Union (EU) which has imposed hurting sanctions on Russia for invading Ukraine and annexing Crimea. EU member states in the east were under Soviet rule and, like East Germany, they have put their future into a partnership of nations but they are nervous of Russia. The Baltic states have native Russian speakers and Putin might just make a move. Poland and Hungary too throw a glance at Russia and wonder. Putin knows the weakness of the Europeans is their nationalism and he will work on this to pull asunder the EU just as it did in the DDR. The racism which is fundamental to nationalism can be exploited so that individual members who are rejecting the EU in favor of their own sense of identity as distinct from neighbors and better without them. Putin must be overjoyed that Britain is about to leave the EU (Brexit) and what a gift Donald Trump has given him by declaring that Nato is obsolete and he likes Putin.
> 
> This will be how the Kremlin will undermine the EU, making individual relationships with European nationalists, picking them off one at a time. This week  Heinz-Christian Strache, Austria's far right leader has signed an alliance with President Putin's United Russia party and has offered to act as a go-between for the Kremlin and Donal Trump. Well, what do you know, the birthplace of Aryan nationalist, Adolf Hitler, Austria's neo-Nazis might just be next to have an exit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heinz-Christian Strache leader of Austria's Freedom Party signed a co-operation agreement with Sergei Zheleznyak, United Russia's deputy leader who is subject to travel bans and asset freezes by the EU.


You think the United States can be conquered?  We have enough nukes to kill the population of the entire planet 37 times, yet you think we are in danger?  Do I need to remind you, we're the ones who kicked Germany's ass?


----------



## Sbiker

Billo_Really said:


> You think the United States can be conquered?



It depends of weapon  How do you think about someone like this:


----------



## Billo_Really

Sbiker said:


> It depends of weapon  How do you think about someone like this:


Have you ever heard the saying, _"Dogs have masters, but cats have staff!"
_
Other than that, I don't see what that has to do with what I said.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sbiker said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> You think the United States can be conquered?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It depends of weapon  How do you think about someone like this:
Click to expand...

The more I think about it, I have 2 cats and they sure have conquered me.


----------



## Eloy

Sbiker said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine was a country which got independence from the Soviet with a clearly defined border and which included Krim and its eastern region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First lies of your propaganda. In January 1991 Crimea had referendum for creation of autonomous Crimea Republic, like a subject of USSR. But local Ukrainian authorities in February ignored results of this referendum, in-fact, annexed Crimea back to Ukraine. It was ANNEXATION OF CRIMEA BY UKRAINE. SO, then were a several steps, where Ukraine forced Crimean citizens to accept Ukrainian citizenship, they cancelled Crimea president, destroyed Crimea parlament and so on.
> 
> So, Crimea people now know, there are no inrenational law in Europe, except brute force. It's logically, they asked to defend Crimea population from nazi aggression - and got it.
> 
> If you want to back to lafwul solution - Ukraine is third in a queue, after Osman Empire )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are Ukrainian citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lies of Western propaganda. Acts of March 1995 year of cancelling Crimea autonomous status were accepted with a violation of international law. They are not valid, so Crimean citizens didn't have Ukrainian citizenship anywhere...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is against international law for Russia to annex Crimea and foment civil war in eastern Ukraine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ukraine annexed Crimea first. Why don't you start to defend "international law" from Ukraine, heh? )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is pitiful that the Russians have not yet learned to talk instead of making war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How double-faced )) Every Russian knosw, Europeans are a beasts, which don't ruled by laws, don't keep agreements and understand only brute force. If someone has a doubts - they just have to look on Crimea, where EU propaganda ignores ALL law considerations, on Donetsk, where EU commitee corrupted by nazi, continuing to murdering civilians, and on Baltic countries, where NATO increasing naval forces.... Will YOU believe to EU, being Russian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think you must read the government newspapers and TV in Russia.
> I do not see anything in what you write that resembles truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think govermnent newspapers and TV in Russia can lie, as in other countries. Don't be a zombie, let's discuss a FACTS. Starting with it:
> 
> wiki: Crimean sovereignty referendum, 1991 - Wikipedia
> 
> So, question, really interesting to me.  Will YOU believe to EU, being Russian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with what the European media reported about  the Russian annexation of Crimea. It was illegal, not how things should be done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please, ask my question, I'm trying to ask you third time. Will YOU believe to EU, being Russian? Just imagine what do you want, and tell.
Click to expand...

I do not see room for Russia in the European Union. Perhaps Kaliningrad could be incorporated into Germany as Königsberg.


----------



## Eloy

Billo_Really said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Vladimir Putin learned well as he trained to be a KGB agent how to find a weakness in his opponents and exploit it. An example is how he is managing the European Union parts of which rely on Russia for energy, such as Germany. He knows Germany and the Germans well, having been a secret agent in Dresden when Angela Merkel, who speaks fluent Russian, lived in the Deutsche Demokratische Republik (DDR).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin in Dresden mid-1980s
> 
> In 1989 the wall in Berlin came down and the people in Dresden were feeling that their nationalism was in the ascent. The mob moved on the Ministry for State Security (Stasi) and then headed across the road to the KGB headquarters but before they could enter they were met by Vladimir Putin who told them that his men were armed and had permission to shoot. The small crowd left. Putin was seeing a type of German nationalism which was discouraged in the DDR under the thumb of Moscau. He left Germany and returned to Leningrad which people even there were beginning to call St. Petersburg. Like East Germany, nationalism was on the rise in the imploding Soviet Union. Putin saw first hand what this people power can do and he put his future in it with the contacts he had made with other KGB agents from Dresden. They are all now directors of former Soviet industries, now privatized and whose wealth goes into the pockets of Putin and pals.
> 
> Putin hates the European Union (EU) which has imposed hurting sanctions on Russia for invading Ukraine and annexing Crimea. EU member states in the east were under Soviet rule and, like East Germany, they have put their future into a partnership of nations but they are nervous of Russia. The Baltic states have native Russian speakers and Putin might just make a move. Poland and Hungary too throw a glance at Russia and wonder. Putin knows the weakness of the Europeans is their nationalism and he will work on this to pull asunder the EU just as it did in the DDR. The racism which is fundamental to nationalism can be exploited so that individual members who are rejecting the EU in favor of their own sense of identity as distinct from neighbors and better without them. Putin must be overjoyed that Britain is about to leave the EU (Brexit) and what a gift Donald Trump has given him by declaring that Nato is obsolete and he likes Putin.
> 
> This will be how the Kremlin will undermine the EU, making individual relationships with European nationalists, picking them off one at a time. This week  Heinz-Christian Strache, Austria's far right leader has signed an alliance with President Putin's United Russia party and has offered to act as a go-between for the Kremlin and Donal Trump. Well, what do you know, the birthplace of Aryan nationalist, Adolf Hitler, Austria's neo-Nazis might just be next to have an exit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heinz-Christian Strache leader of Austria's Freedom Party signed a co-operation agreement with Sergei Zheleznyak, United Russia's deputy leader who is subject to travel bans and asset freezes by the EU.
> 
> 
> 
> You think the United States can be conquered?  We have enough nukes to kill the population of the entire planet 37 times, yet you think we are in danger?  Do I need to remind you, we're the ones who kicked Germany's ass?
Click to expand...

The United States can be conquered from within. It is already happening.


----------



## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> First lies of your propaganda. In January 1991 Crimea had referendum for creation of autonomous Crimea Republic, like a subject of USSR. But local Ukrainian authorities in February ignored results of this referendum, in-fact, annexed Crimea back to Ukraine. It was ANNEXATION OF CRIMEA BY UKRAINE. SO, then were a several steps, where Ukraine forced Crimean citizens to accept Ukrainian citizenship, they cancelled Crimea president, destroyed Crimea parlament and so on.
> 
> So, Crimea people now know, there are no inrenational law in Europe, except brute force. It's logically, they asked to defend Crimea population from nazi aggression - and got it.
> 
> If you want to back to lafwul solution - Ukraine is third in a queue, after Osman Empire )
> 
> Lies of Western propaganda. Acts of March 1995 year of cancelling Crimea autonomous status were accepted with a violation of international law. They are not valid, so Crimean citizens didn't have Ukrainian citizenship anywhere...
> 
> Ukraine annexed Crimea first. Why don't you start to defend "international law" from Ukraine, heh? )
> 
> How double-faced )) Every Russian knosw, Europeans are a beasts, which don't ruled by laws, don't keep agreements and understand only brute force. If someone has a doubts - they just have to look on Crimea, where EU propaganda ignores ALL law considerations, on Donetsk, where EU commitee corrupted by nazi, continuing to murdering civilians, and on Baltic countries, where NATO increasing naval forces.... Will YOU believe to EU, being Russian?
> 
> 
> 
> I think you must read the government newspapers and TV in Russia.
> I do not see anything in what you write that resembles truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think govermnent newspapers and TV in Russia can lie, as in other countries. Don't be a zombie, let's discuss a FACTS. Starting with it:
> 
> wiki: Crimean sovereignty referendum, 1991 - Wikipedia
> 
> So, question, really interesting to me.  Will YOU believe to EU, being Russian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with what the European media reported about  the Russian annexation of Crimea. It was illegal, not how things should be done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please, ask my question, I'm trying to ask you third time. Will YOU believe to EU, being Russian? Just imagine what do you want, and tell.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do not see room for Russia in the European Union. Perhaps Kaliningrad could be incorporated into Germany as Königsberg.
Click to expand...


Ha-ha! Wonderful!

Russia don't need to be in EU (and have their non-conservative values )). I'm asking you - could be EU a good neighbour, open to dialog?

You considered variants: 1. to eat Russia, 2. to cut Kaliningrad from Russia and eat it. And NO MORE variants, except this two, aggressive against Russia! You don't even consider any variant of peaceful co-existance with Russia!!!

And after it you talking about "Russian aggression"... )))


----------



## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Vladimir Putin learned well as he trained to be a KGB agent how to find a weakness in his opponents and exploit it. An example is how he is managing the European Union parts of which rely on Russia for energy, such as Germany. He knows Germany and the Germans well, having been a secret agent in Dresden when Angela Merkel, who speaks fluent Russian, lived in the Deutsche Demokratische Republik (DDR).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin in Dresden mid-1980s
> 
> In 1989 the wall in Berlin came down and the people in Dresden were feeling that their nationalism was in the ascent. The mob moved on the Ministry for State Security (Stasi) and then headed across the road to the KGB headquarters but before they could enter they were met by Vladimir Putin who told them that his men were armed and had permission to shoot. The small crowd left. Putin was seeing a type of German nationalism which was discouraged in the DDR under the thumb of Moscau. He left Germany and returned to Leningrad which people even there were beginning to call St. Petersburg. Like East Germany, nationalism was on the rise in the imploding Soviet Union. Putin saw first hand what this people power can do and he put his future in it with the contacts he had made with other KGB agents from Dresden. They are all now directors of former Soviet industries, now privatized and whose wealth goes into the pockets of Putin and pals.
> 
> Putin hates the European Union (EU) which has imposed hurting sanctions on Russia for invading Ukraine and annexing Crimea. EU member states in the east were under Soviet rule and, like East Germany, they have put their future into a partnership of nations but they are nervous of Russia. The Baltic states have native Russian speakers and Putin might just make a move. Poland and Hungary too throw a glance at Russia and wonder. Putin knows the weakness of the Europeans is their nationalism and he will work on this to pull asunder the EU just as it did in the DDR. The racism which is fundamental to nationalism can be exploited so that individual members who are rejecting the EU in favor of their own sense of identity as distinct from neighbors and better without them. Putin must be overjoyed that Britain is about to leave the EU (Brexit) and what a gift Donald Trump has given him by declaring that Nato is obsolete and he likes Putin.
> 
> This will be how the Kremlin will undermine the EU, making individual relationships with European nationalists, picking them off one at a time. This week  Heinz-Christian Strache, Austria's far right leader has signed an alliance with President Putin's United Russia party and has offered to act as a go-between for the Kremlin and Donal Trump. Well, what do you know, the birthplace of Aryan nationalist, Adolf Hitler, Austria's neo-Nazis might just be next to have an exit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heinz-Christian Strache leader of Austria's Freedom Party signed a co-operation agreement with Sergei Zheleznyak, United Russia's deputy leader who is subject to travel bans and asset freezes by the EU.
> 
> 
> 
> You think the United States can be conquered?  We have enough nukes to kill the population of the entire planet 37 times, yet you think we are in danger?  Do I need to remind you, we're the ones who kicked Germany's ass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The United States can be conquered from within. It is already happening.
Click to expand...


Do you even assume, some countries in world may be close to free and democratic, not to thinking of conquer of something and not to be in histeria of possibility of being conquered by someone, except meowing ones?


----------



## Sbiker

Billo_Really said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> You think the United States can be conquered?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It depends of weapon  How do you think about someone like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The more I think about it, I have 2 cats and they sure have conquered me.
Click to expand...


I have only one, and performing hard and continues battles with it to guard my aquarium 

Dog think "Man is feeding me, so he is God"...
Cat think "Man is feeding me, so I am God"


----------



## Eloy

Sbiker said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Vladimir Putin learned well as he trained to be a KGB agent how to find a weakness in his opponents and exploit it. An example is how he is managing the European Union parts of which rely on Russia for energy, such as Germany. He knows Germany and the Germans well, having been a secret agent in Dresden when Angela Merkel, who speaks fluent Russian, lived in the Deutsche Demokratische Republik (DDR).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin in Dresden mid-1980s
> 
> In 1989 the wall in Berlin came down and the people in Dresden were feeling that their nationalism was in the ascent. The mob moved on the Ministry for State Security (Stasi) and then headed across the road to the KGB headquarters but before they could enter they were met by Vladimir Putin who told them that his men were armed and had permission to shoot. The small crowd left. Putin was seeing a type of German nationalism which was discouraged in the DDR under the thumb of Moscau. He left Germany and returned to Leningrad which people even there were beginning to call St. Petersburg. Like East Germany, nationalism was on the rise in the imploding Soviet Union. Putin saw first hand what this people power can do and he put his future in it with the contacts he had made with other KGB agents from Dresden. They are all now directors of former Soviet industries, now privatized and whose wealth goes into the pockets of Putin and pals.
> 
> Putin hates the European Union (EU) which has imposed hurting sanctions on Russia for invading Ukraine and annexing Crimea. EU member states in the east were under Soviet rule and, like East Germany, they have put their future into a partnership of nations but they are nervous of Russia. The Baltic states have native Russian speakers and Putin might just make a move. Poland and Hungary too throw a glance at Russia and wonder. Putin knows the weakness of the Europeans is their nationalism and he will work on this to pull asunder the EU just as it did in the DDR. The racism which is fundamental to nationalism can be exploited so that individual members who are rejecting the EU in favor of their own sense of identity as distinct from neighbors and better without them. Putin must be overjoyed that Britain is about to leave the EU (Brexit) and what a gift Donald Trump has given him by declaring that Nato is obsolete and he likes Putin.
> 
> This will be how the Kremlin will undermine the EU, making individual relationships with European nationalists, picking them off one at a time. This week  Heinz-Christian Strache, Austria's far right leader has signed an alliance with President Putin's United Russia party and has offered to act as a go-between for the Kremlin and Donal Trump. Well, what do you know, the birthplace of Aryan nationalist, Adolf Hitler, Austria's neo-Nazis might just be next to have an exit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heinz-Christian Strache leader of Austria's Freedom Party signed a co-operation agreement with Sergei Zheleznyak, United Russia's deputy leader who is subject to travel bans and asset freezes by the EU.
> 
> 
> 
> You think the United States can be conquered?  We have enough nukes to kill the population of the entire planet 37 times, yet you think we are in danger?  Do I need to remind you, we're the ones who kicked Germany's ass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The United States can be conquered from within. It is already happening.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you even assume, some countries in world may be close to free and democratic, not to thinking of conquer of something and not to be in histeria of possibility of being conquered by someone, except meowing ones?
Click to expand...

Russia was quick to take advantage of Ukraine's two weaknesses. 
Firstly, Ukraine agreed to give-up its nuclear weapons of mass destruction on the promise from Russia that it would respect its territory.
Secondly, Ukraine took too long in joining NATO.


----------



## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Vladimir Putin learned well as he trained to be a KGB agent how to find a weakness in his opponents and exploit it. An example is how he is managing the European Union parts of which rely on Russia for energy, such as Germany. He knows Germany and the Germans well, having been a secret agent in Dresden when Angela Merkel, who speaks fluent Russian, lived in the Deutsche Demokratische Republik (DDR).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin in Dresden mid-1980s
> 
> In 1989 the wall in Berlin came down and the people in Dresden were feeling that their nationalism was in the ascent. The mob moved on the Ministry for State Security (Stasi) and then headed across the road to the KGB headquarters but before they could enter they were met by Vladimir Putin who told them that his men were armed and had permission to shoot. The small crowd left. Putin was seeing a type of German nationalism which was discouraged in the DDR under the thumb of Moscau. He left Germany and returned to Leningrad which people even there were beginning to call St. Petersburg. Like East Germany, nationalism was on the rise in the imploding Soviet Union. Putin saw first hand what this people power can do and he put his future in it with the contacts he had made with other KGB agents from Dresden. They are all now directors of former Soviet industries, now privatized and whose wealth goes into the pockets of Putin and pals.
> 
> Putin hates the European Union (EU) which has imposed hurting sanctions on Russia for invading Ukraine and annexing Crimea. EU member states in the east were under Soviet rule and, like East Germany, they have put their future into a partnership of nations but they are nervous of Russia. The Baltic states have native Russian speakers and Putin might just make a move. Poland and Hungary too throw a glance at Russia and wonder. Putin knows the weakness of the Europeans is their nationalism and he will work on this to pull asunder the EU just as it did in the DDR. The racism which is fundamental to nationalism can be exploited so that individual members who are rejecting the EU in favor of their own sense of identity as distinct from neighbors and better without them. Putin must be overjoyed that Britain is about to leave the EU (Brexit) and what a gift Donald Trump has given him by declaring that Nato is obsolete and he likes Putin.
> 
> This will be how the Kremlin will undermine the EU, making individual relationships with European nationalists, picking them off one at a time. This week  Heinz-Christian Strache, Austria's far right leader has signed an alliance with President Putin's United Russia party and has offered to act as a go-between for the Kremlin and Donal Trump. Well, what do you know, the birthplace of Aryan nationalist, Adolf Hitler, Austria's neo-Nazis might just be next to have an exit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heinz-Christian Strache leader of Austria's Freedom Party signed a co-operation agreement with Sergei Zheleznyak, United Russia's deputy leader who is subject to travel bans and asset freezes by the EU.
> 
> 
> 
> You think the United States can be conquered?  We have enough nukes to kill the population of the entire planet 37 times, yet you think we are in danger?  Do I need to remind you, we're the ones who kicked Germany's ass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The United States can be conquered from within. It is already happening.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you even assume, some countries in world may be close to free and democratic, not to thinking of conquer of something and not to be in histeria of possibility of being conquered by someone, except meowing ones?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia was quick to take advantage of Ukraine's two weaknesses.
> Firstly, Ukraine agreed to give-up its nuclear weapons of mass destruction on the promise from Russia that it would respect its territory.
> Secondly, Ukraine took too long in joining NATO.
Click to expand...


Why EU thinking only about Ukraine, not about own EU interests? It seems, Ukraine hackers owned all EU communications long years ago and now Merkel and Olland are just another Ukraine puppets...


----------



## Art__Allm

Eloy said:


> The United States can be conquered from within. It is already happening.



Agree with you on that point, USA was conquered from within by the financial oligarchy, by international banksters with double citizenship. That is why USA is involved in crazy  wars, but cannot protect own boarders, and the founding population of the USA is being replaced by migrants from the Third World.

At the moment the founding population of the USA is trying to reconquer their country, Trump seems to support this process, he promised to drain the swamp in Washington. 

But Trump has to kiss the ass of the Israel Lobby, too, and that shows who the reals masters are.


----------



## ESay

Art__Allm said:


> Well, in medieval times the land was inherited by the ruling dynasty. The throne passed from father to son.
> The Kievan Rus was created by Rurik, he was a Viking.
> His descendants had the right to call themselves Tsars.
> They moved their capital many times, after Kiev it was Moscow, after Moscow it was Sankt Petersburg.
> As you said, Kievan Rus was destroyed, speak there were no rulers from Rurik's dynasty any more who lived in Kiev.
> And that is precicely the reason why Ukraine became a province: Украина = Окраина. There was still old Russian population, but they were peasants, ruled by Polish pans.


As far as I know, Ivan Grozny was the latest (or so) representative of the Rurik dynasty. A Romanov dynasty later took the power in their hands.



Art__Allm said:


> Yes, because Bolsheviks needed the support of separatists, they used the divide and conquer tactics against the Tsar. They supported the minorities against the majority, and created new identities, like Ukrainians.


I don’t know whether Bolsheviks can be ‘blamed’ for that. The descendants of immigrants from Western Ukraine (in contemporary terms) who moved to North America long before Bolsheviks took the power also call themselves Ukrainians.



Art__Allm said:


> Well, that depends from the region of Ukraine. There is no sharp boarder between the Ukraine and today RF, because this boarder is an artificial boarder. It is obvious that some parts of Ukraine did not feel like remaining in a state that is hostile to Russia. They may just become an independent state, say Tavria or New Russia. And the people of the Crimean Peninsula have a Russian identity, that is a fact.


Well, I have to admit that it would be fairer to organize an all-Ukrainian referendum in 2014 where each Ukrainian region would have a right to decide whether to remain in Ukraine or to join Russia or something else. Why this didn’t happen is quite obvious – the Ukrainian authorities (or junta as you prefer to call them) knew that Ukraine would have to accept that several southern and eastern oblasts would want to secede from it.

It is theoretically possible to divide Ukraine on three parts. But I don’t think that Ukrainian neighbors (including Russia) would want to realize it in practice. I have already written about that.


----------



## Eloy

Sbiker said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Vladimir Putin learned well as he trained to be a KGB agent how to find a weakness in his opponents and exploit it. An example is how he is managing the European Union parts of which rely on Russia for energy, such as Germany. He knows Germany and the Germans well, having been a secret agent in Dresden when Angela Merkel, who speaks fluent Russian, lived in the Deutsche Demokratische Republik (DDR).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin in Dresden mid-1980s
> 
> In 1989 the wall in Berlin came down and the people in Dresden were feeling that their nationalism was in the ascent. The mob moved on the Ministry for State Security (Stasi) and then headed across the road to the KGB headquarters but before they could enter they were met by Vladimir Putin who told them that his men were armed and had permission to shoot. The small crowd left. Putin was seeing a type of German nationalism which was discouraged in the DDR under the thumb of Moscau. He left Germany and returned to Leningrad which people even there were beginning to call St. Petersburg. Like East Germany, nationalism was on the rise in the imploding Soviet Union. Putin saw first hand what this people power can do and he put his future in it with the contacts he had made with other KGB agents from Dresden. They are all now directors of former Soviet industries, now privatized and whose wealth goes into the pockets of Putin and pals.
> 
> Putin hates the European Union (EU) which has imposed hurting sanctions on Russia for invading Ukraine and annexing Crimea. EU member states in the east were under Soviet rule and, like East Germany, they have put their future into a partnership of nations but they are nervous of Russia. The Baltic states have native Russian speakers and Putin might just make a move. Poland and Hungary too throw a glance at Russia and wonder. Putin knows the weakness of the Europeans is their nationalism and he will work on this to pull asunder the EU just as it did in the DDR. The racism which is fundamental to nationalism can be exploited so that individual members who are rejecting the EU in favor of their own sense of identity as distinct from neighbors and better without them. Putin must be overjoyed that Britain is about to leave the EU (Brexit) and what a gift Donald Trump has given him by declaring that Nato is obsolete and he likes Putin.
> 
> This will be how the Kremlin will undermine the EU, making individual relationships with European nationalists, picking them off one at a time. This week  Heinz-Christian Strache, Austria's far right leader has signed an alliance with President Putin's United Russia party and has offered to act as a go-between for the Kremlin and Donal Trump. Well, what do you know, the birthplace of Aryan nationalist, Adolf Hitler, Austria's neo-Nazis might just be next to have an exit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heinz-Christian Strache leader of Austria's Freedom Party signed a co-operation agreement with Sergei Zheleznyak, United Russia's deputy leader who is subject to travel bans and asset freezes by the EU.
> 
> 
> 
> You think the United States can be conquered?  We have enough nukes to kill the population of the entire planet 37 times, yet you think we are in danger?  Do I need to remind you, we're the ones who kicked Germany's ass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The United States can be conquered from within. It is already happening.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you even assume, some countries in world may be close to free and democratic, not to thinking of conquer of something and not to be in histeria of possibility of being conquered by someone, except meowing ones?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia was quick to take advantage of Ukraine's two weaknesses.
> Firstly, Ukraine agreed to give-up its nuclear weapons of mass destruction on the promise from Russia that it would respect its territory.
> Secondly, Ukraine took too long in joining NATO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why EU thinking only about Ukraine, not about own EU interests? It seems, Ukraine hackers owned all EU communications long years ago and now Merkel and Olland are just another Ukraine puppets...
Click to expand...

The European Union (EU) is concerned about Ukraine because the Russians annexed Crimea and is fomenting civil war in eastern Ukraine. Ukraine has a border with the EU (Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, and Romania) which has good relations with its neighbor. We see Russia acting illegally there which means it can do the same with us. 

The policy of the Russian Federation is to annex territory where Russian-speakers live. Russian is widely used in EU states which were part of the Soviet Union. Russian is the native language of about 1.6 million Baltic Russians residing in Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania as well as a sizable community of about 3.5 millions in Germany and as a major immigrant language elsewhere in the EU. Russian is also understood by a majority of ethnic Latvians, Estonians, and Lithuanians born before c. 1980, since, as official language of the Soviet Union, it was a compulsory school subject in those countries during the Soviet era. To a lesser extent, this legacy also holds true among the older generation in parts of the EU that were formerly part of the Eastern bloc, such as the German Democratic Republic. If the EU Russian foreign policy of uniting all Russian-speakers then we have a potential threat to peace in Europe.


----------



## Sbiker

Eloy said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> You think the United States can be conquered?  We have enough nukes to kill the population of the entire planet 37 times, yet you think we are in danger?  Do I need to remind you, we're the ones who kicked Germany's ass?
> 
> 
> 
> The United States can be conquered from within. It is already happening.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you even assume, some countries in world may be close to free and democratic, not to thinking of conquer of something and not to be in histeria of possibility of being conquered by someone, except meowing ones?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia was quick to take advantage of Ukraine's two weaknesses.
> Firstly, Ukraine agreed to give-up its nuclear weapons of mass destruction on the promise from Russia that it would respect its territory.
> Secondly, Ukraine took too long in joining NATO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why EU thinking only about Ukraine, not about own EU interests? It seems, Ukraine hackers owned all EU communications long years ago and now Merkel and Olland are just another Ukraine puppets...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The European Union (EU) is concerned about Ukraine because the Russians annexed Crimea and is fomenting civil war in eastern Ukraine. Ukraine has a border with the EU (Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, and Romania) which has good relations with its neighbor. We see Russia acting illegally there which means it can do the same with us.
> 
> The policy of the Russian Federation is to annex territory where Russian-speakers live. Russian is widely used in EU states which were part of the Soviet Union. Russian is the native language of about 1.6 million Baltic Russians residing in Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania as well as a sizable community of about 3.5 millions in Germany and as a major immigrant language elsewhere in the EU. Russian is also understood by a majority of ethnic Latvians, Estonians, and Lithuanians born before c. 1980, since, as official language of the Soviet Union, it was a compulsory school subject in those countries during the Soviet era. To a lesser extent, this legacy also holds true among the older generation in parts of the EU that were formerly part of the Eastern bloc, such as the German Democratic Republic. If the EU Russian foreign policy of uniting all Russian-speakers then we have a potential threat to peace in Europe.
Click to expand...


Yes, offcourse... Tell the Polish about Ukrainian banderas are their best neighbor, especially after Volyn'   

I understand you. What could you write here else, when your computer controlled by Ukrainian hackers... I hope, you already got idea to re-issue your credit cards in offline?


----------



## Art__Allm

ESay said:


> As far as I know, Ivan Grozny was the latest (or so) representative of the Rurik dynasty. A Romanov dynasty later took the power in their hands.



The crucial point is that  Ivan Grozny was ruling Russia from Moscow, not from Kiev.



ESay said:


> I don’t know whether Bolsheviks can be ‘blamed’ for that. The descendants of immigrants from Western Ukraine (in contemporary terms) who moved to North America long before Bolsheviks took the power also call themselves Ukrainians.



Bolsheviks supported these separatists, who were a minority.



ESay said:


> Well, I have to admit that it would be fairer to organize an all-Ukrainian referendum in 2014 where each Ukrainian region would have a right to decide whether to remain in Ukraine or to join Russia or something else. Why this didn’t happen is quite obvious – the Ukrainian authorities (or junta as you prefer to call them) knew that Ukraine would have to accept that several southern and eastern oblasts would want to secede from it.
> It is theoretically possible to divide Ukraine on three parts. But I don’t think that Ukrainian neighbors (including Russia) would want to realize it in practice. I have already written about that.



I think that Russia does not have any intentions to incorporate the destroyed parts of Ukraine into the RF, the Crimean Peninsula was just an exception, because in this region there is a very clear ethnic and cultural situation.

Russia just wants a friendly neighbour, and how can any honest human being blame Russia for that?


----------



## Art__Allm

Eloy said:


> You missed the salient point that the Third Reich moved into Czechoslovakia to unite the German speakers to the Reich.



First of all you have to say former Czechoslovakia, because this state does not exist any more, it could only exist as a Communist dictatorship.
Besides that I have shown you the historical timeline of the events.
Western powers agreed to the reunification of German lands that were given to this artificiallly created state (Czechoslovakia) in Versailles.



> In the Munich Agreement of September 30, 1938, the major European powers allowed German troops to occupy the _Sudetenland_, for the sake of "peace for our time".
> Events preceding World War II in Europe - Wikipedia



As we see, there was an AGREEMENT, there was nothing illegal in Sudentenland becoming part of Germany, the western powers just realised that the treaty of Versailles was unjust and discriminated Germans.

So why do you repeat this BS about Hitler invading Sudenland?
Are you unable to understand simple English texts?

And Czechoslovakia collapsed a day before German troops invaded what was once Czechoslovakia. Slovaks were oppressed by the Czechs, and they declared their independence.

Here is another quote from Wiki:



> On March 14 Slovakia declared its independence under Jozef Tiso, which was recognized by France, Britain and other important powers.
> Events preceding World War II in Europe - Wikipedia



Is it rocket science to understand this simple text?
Slovakia declared its independence, France and Britain recognised this new state. So is it not clear from this text that Czechoslovakia did not exist after March 14, there remained only Czechia.

How could Hitler invade Czechoslovakia, if this state did not exist any more?

How retarded must somebody be stubbornly talking about the invasion of a state that did not exist any more?

BTW, Slovaks are today an independent state, eventually. The restoration of this artificial state after WWII was a failure, this state could only exist as long, as the Communist dictatorship existed.

I have proven my points with facts, people can do their own research and find out the truth.



Eloy said:


> This is what Putin is doing with Crimea and eastern Ukraine.



Putin does not do anything to the Eastern Ukraine, if he Russian state really helped the freedom fighters there, the Junta in Kiev would have been already finished.

What to the Crimean Peninsula - this was a Republic with special rights, including the right to separate from Ukraine, this right was written in the Ukrainian constitution, that was abolished by the Junta, brought to power via a violent Putsch, sponsored by Soros and the Obama administration.

So who are the bad guys? Obviously Killary and Co.


----------



## Billo_Really

Eloy said:


> The United States can be conquered from within. It is already happening.


With Citizens United?


----------



## Billo_Really

Sbiker said:


> I have only one, and performing hard and continues battles with it to guard my aquarium
> 
> Dog think "Man is feeding me, so he is God"...
> Cat think "Man is feeding me, so I am God"


But if you die and have a dog, it might die from the grief of losing you.

If you die and have a cat, it might eat you?


----------



## Billo_Really

Eloy said:


> I do not see room for Russia in the European Union. Perhaps Kaliningrad could be incorporated into Germany as Königsberg.


I don't see where it's any of our business what other country's do.


----------



## Eloy

Art__Allm said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You missed the salient point that the Third Reich moved into Czechoslovakia to unite the German speakers to the Reich.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First of all you have to say former Czechoslovakia, because this state does not exist any more, it could only exist as a Communist dictatorship.
> Besides that I have shown you the historical timeline of the events.
> Western powers agreed to the reunification of German lands that were given to this artificiallly created state (Czechoslovakia) in Versailles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the Munich Agreement of September 30, 1938, the major European powers allowed German troops to occupy the _Sudetenland_, for the sake of "peace for our time".
> Events preceding World War II in Europe - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As we see, there was an AGREEMENT, there was nothing illegal in Sudentenland becoming part of Germany, the western powers just realised that the treaty of Versailles was unjust and discriminated Germans.
> 
> So why do you repeat this BS about Hitler invading Sudenland?
> Are you unable to understand simple English texts?
> 
> And Czechoslovakia collapsed a day before German troops invaded what was once Czechoslovakia. Slovaks were oppressed by the Czechs, and they declared their independence.
> 
> Here is another quote from Wiki:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On March 14 Slovakia declared its independence under Jozef Tiso, which was recognized by France, Britain and other important powers.
> Events preceding World War II in Europe - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is it rocket science to understand this simple text?
> Slovakia declared its independence, France and Britain recognised this new state. So is it not clear from this text that Czechoslovakia did not exist after March 14, there remained only Czechia.
> 
> How could Hitler invade Czechoslovakia, if this state did not exist any more?
> 
> How retarded must somebody be stubbornly talking about the invasion of a state that did not exist any more?
> 
> BTW, Slovaks are today an independent state, eventually. The restoration of this artificial state after WWII was a failure, this state could only exist as long, as the Communist dictatorship existed.
> 
> I have proven my points with facts, people can do their own research and find out the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is what Putin is doing with Crimea and eastern Ukraine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Putin does not do anything to the Eastern Ukraine, if he Russian state really helped the freedom fighters there, the Junta in Kiev would have been already finished.
> 
> What to the Crimean Peninsula - this was a Republic with special rights, including the right to separate from Ukraine, this right was written in the Ukrainian constitution, that was abolished by the Junta, brought to power via a violent Putsch, sponsored by Soros and the Obama administration.
> 
> So who are the bad guys? Obviously Killary and Co.
Click to expand...

You are correct about the western powers appeasing the bully in 1936 but we will not allow Putin to push his weight around European democracies even if he is a friend of the new so-called president of the USA.


----------



## Sbiker

Billo_Really said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have only one, and performing hard and continues battles with it to guard my aquarium
> 
> Dog think "Man is feeding me, so he is God"...
> Cat think "Man is feeding me, so I am God"
> 
> 
> 
> But if you die and have a dog, it might die from the grief of losing you.
> 
> If you die and have a cat, it might eat you?
Click to expand...


Yes, but dogs sometimes attack children, because of their psychology...

Hmmm... cats sometimes do the same ))


----------



## Sbiker

Art__Allm said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I know, Ivan Grozny was the latest (or so) representative of the Rurik dynasty. A Romanov dynasty later took the power in their hands.
> 
> 
> 
> The crucial point is that  Ivan Grozny was ruling Russia from Moscow, not from Kiev.
Click to expand...


There were two "Ivan Grozny" - Ivan III and his more famous grandson Ivan IV. And the son of Ivav IV was Rurik dynasty too... And it seems "Lzhe-Dmitry" was a true Dmitry of Rurik dynasty too and his son, Ivan "Vorenok" too, because "curse of Marina Mnishek" really performed with Romanovs.

And all this Ruriks were in Moscow, after Ivan III Grozny 




Art__Allm said:


> I think that Russia does not have any intentions to incorporate the destroyed parts of Ukraine into the RF, the Crimean Peninsula was just an exception, because in this region there is a very clear ethnic and cultural situation.
> 
> Russia just wants a friendly neighbour, and how can any honest human being blame Russia for that?



That's true. Russian authorities would strongly prefer not to take any neighbor regions not to drop Russian economics...


----------



## Art__Allm

Eloy said:


> You are correct about the western powers appeasing the bully in 1936...



It seems that you do not understand simple English texts, because you are stubbornly talking about 1936.

The reunification with Silesia, which was for centuries German land, happened in 1938.

It seems that you do understand that there was no violent invasion, there was a peaceful process, because the population did not mind.

Can you understand these simple things?




> 29 Sep 1938
> 
> The Munich Conference between Hitler, Chamberlain, Mussolini, and Daladier took place at the Führerbau building in München in Germany, during which Britain and France ceded Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia to Germany in an attempt to avoid war. The two Czechoslovakian representatives at the conference were locked in an adjacent room, not permitted to actually participating in the negotiations.
> 30 Sep 1938  Shortly after midnight, Adolf Hitler, Neville Chamberlain, Benito Mussolini, and Édouard Daladier, in that order, signed the Munich Agreement at the Führerbau building in München in Germany, which ceded Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia to Germany; the actual document was backdated to the previous day, 29 Sep 1938.
> 30 Sep 1938  Upon returning to the United Kingdom, outside 10 Downing Street in London, Chamberlain announced that "I believe it is peace for our time".
> 1 Oct 1938  Following the German annexation of Sudetenland, Czechoslovakia, efforts began to arrest Sudetenland residents who opposed the Nazi government.
> 11 Oct 1938  Wilhelm Keitel reported to Adolf Hitler, noting that the German military was poised to invade Czechoslovakia without needing much time to prepare.
> 15 Oct 1938  The Czechoslovakian government resigned after Germany occupied the Sudetenland.
> Munich Conference and the Annexation of Sudetenland



How many quotes do I have to paste so that you eventually understand that the peaceful occupation of the German Sudetenland happened in October 1938, not in 1936.

And Hitler did not invade Czechoslovakia, only retarded people can talk about a German invasion of Czechoslovakia.

Here is a very detailed timeline:



> 14 Mar 1939 Slovakia and Ruthenia declared independence from Czechoslovakia; as Czechoslovakia had fallen into pieces, the United Kingdom and France considered it to be the evidence that Czechoslovakia no longer existed as a nation, thus they no longer had any alliance obligations to the now defunct nation. During the day, Czechoslovakian President Emil Hácha traveled by train to Berlin, Germany to conduct last-minute negotiations with Adolf Hitler to save his country.
> 14 Mar 1939
> 
> Warned by the German Abwehr's Paul Thummel that Prague would be occupied on 15 Mar 1939, Colonel Franyišek Moravek, Chief of the Czechoslovak intelligence service, and ten members of his staff embark on a Dutch civilian aircraft hired by the British MI6. Later, in London, the group would offer their valuable services to Prime Minister Edvard Beneš' Czech government in exile.
> 15 Mar 1939  At 0115 hours, Czechoslovakian President Emil Hácha met with Adolf Hitler, who was accompanied by Wilhelm Keitel, Hermann Göring, Joachim von Ribbentrop, and Theodor Morell, in Berlin, Germany. Hitler threatened Hácha that German forces were poised to invade Czechoslovakia at 0600 hours, so it was up to Hácha to either agree to a peaceful occupation or face a destructive invasion. At 0215 hours, Hitler left the conference room, and Göring and Ribbentrop continued to threaten Hácha with, among other things, the bombing of Prague. Hácha fainted twice during the negotiations, and both times were revived by injections by Dr. Morell. Hácha gave in at 0355 hours, and German troops marched across the borders at 0600 hours unopposed. In the evening, Adolf Hitler entered Prague in a grand parade. During the day in eastern Czechoslovakia, Hungarian forces marched into Ruthenia, ending the one-day-old nation of Capatho-Ukraine.
> 16 Mar 1939  In eastern Czechoslovakia, Slovakian leader Jozef Tiso sent a telegram, originally authored by Hermann Göring, to ask for German troops to enter Slovakian borders. In western Czechoslovakia, Germany declared the formation of the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, with Konstantin von Neurath as the German Protector, immediately enacting anti-Semitic laws.
> Dismemberment of Czechoslovakia



There was no Czechoslovakia on 14 March 1939, that was the official position of GB and France, I have even highlighted the quoted text so you can see, that neither GB nor France had any obligation to Czechoslovakia, they recognized the sovereignty of Slovakia.

The legal Slovak government asked the Third Reich to protect them from the aggression of the Czech government. 

The collapse of this artificial state, called Czechoslovakia, happened without any violence, nobody was killed.

How could Hitler invade Czechoslovakia on 15 March 1939, if GB and France recognized the collapse of Czechoslovakia on 14 March 1939 and recognized the Slovak as an independent state?

Can you please answer this simple question instead of repeating your BS?



Eloy said:


> ...but we will not allow Putin to push his weight around European democracies even if he is a friend of the new so-called president of the USA.



Who "we"?

The Western banksters used Stalin against Hitler, a big state with big resources.
Whom can the western banksters use against the same country, that was used against Hitler?

Do you really believe that Americans can be used against Russia?
America cannot protect their own boarders, it is flooded by third world migrants that are destroying USA from within.

The occupation of Sudetenland was a peaceful process, Slovaks asked for protection from the Czechs, this process was also peaceful.
The Crimean Peninsula and RF reunited PEACEFULLY, nobody was killed.

And now look at how USA invades countries on the other side of the globe: million civilians are killed, Americans are brought home in body bags.

Do you really believe that banksters can find enough people who are ready to die on the other side of the world?

Oh man, you are so wrong!

Instead of messing in the affairs of the Crimean population, who are happy with their new status (they were not ethnically cleansed from their land) why not solve real conflicts, where people are killed or kept in concentration camps?

Americans should solve real conflicts, if they want to be the "World Policemen", like the Palestinian conflicts, where Zionists ethnically cleans the Palestinian land, annex it and replace the native Semites of Palestine with European migrants who claim that their ancestors lived 2000 years ago in this region.

That is a real violation of the international law, and this is going on for decades!


----------



## Eloy

Art__Allm said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct about the western powers appeasing the bully in 1936...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that you do not understand simple English texts, because you are stubbornly talking about 1936.
> 
> The reunification with Silesia, which was for centuries German land, happened in 1938.
> 
> It seems that you do understand that there was no violent invasion, there was a peaceful process, because the population did not mind.
> 
> Can you understand these simple things?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 29 Sep 1938
> 
> The Munich Conference between Hitler, Chamberlain, Mussolini, and Daladier took place at the Führerbau building in München in Germany, during which Britain and France ceded Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia to Germany in an attempt to avoid war. The two Czechoslovakian representatives at the conference were locked in an adjacent room, not permitted to actually participating in the negotiations.
> 30 Sep 1938  Shortly after midnight, Adolf Hitler, Neville Chamberlain, Benito Mussolini, and Édouard Daladier, in that order, signed the Munich Agreement at the Führerbau building in München in Germany, which ceded Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia to Germany; the actual document was backdated to the previous day, 29 Sep 1938.
> 30 Sep 1938  Upon returning to the United Kingdom, outside 10 Downing Street in London, Chamberlain announced that "I believe it is peace for our time".
> 1 Oct 1938  Following the German annexation of Sudetenland, Czechoslovakia, efforts began to arrest Sudetenland residents who opposed the Nazi government.
> 11 Oct 1938  Wilhelm Keitel reported to Adolf Hitler, noting that the German military was poised to invade Czechoslovakia without needing much time to prepare.
> 15 Oct 1938  The Czechoslovakian government resigned after Germany occupied the Sudetenland.
> Munich Conference and the Annexation of Sudetenland
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many quotes do I have to paste so that you eventually understand that the peaceful occupation of the German Sudetenland happened in October 1938, not in 1936.
> 
> And Hitler did not invade Czechoslovakia, only retarded people can talk about a German invasion of Czechoslovakia.
> 
> Here is a very detailed timeline:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14 Mar 1939 Slovakia and Ruthenia declared independence from Czechoslovakia; as Czechoslovakia had fallen into pieces, the United Kingdom and France considered it to be the evidence that Czechoslovakia no longer existed as a nation, thus they no longer had any alliance obligations to the now defunct nation. During the day, Czechoslovakian President Emil Hácha traveled by train to Berlin, Germany to conduct last-minute negotiations with Adolf Hitler to save his country.
> 14 Mar 1939
> 
> Warned by the German Abwehr's Paul Thummel that Prague would be occupied on 15 Mar 1939, Colonel Franyišek Moravek, Chief of the Czechoslovak intelligence service, and ten members of his staff embark on a Dutch civilian aircraft hired by the British MI6. Later, in London, the group would offer their valuable services to Prime Minister Edvard Beneš' Czech government in exile.
> 15 Mar 1939  At 0115 hours, Czechoslovakian President Emil Hácha met with Adolf Hitler, who was accompanied by Wilhelm Keitel, Hermann Göring, Joachim von Ribbentrop, and Theodor Morell, in Berlin, Germany. Hitler threatened Hácha that German forces were poised to invade Czechoslovakia at 0600 hours, so it was up to Hácha to either agree to a peaceful occupation or face a destructive invasion. At 0215 hours, Hitler left the conference room, and Göring and Ribbentrop continued to threaten Hácha with, among other things, the bombing of Prague. Hácha fainted twice during the negotiations, and both times were revived by injections by Dr. Morell. Hácha gave in at 0355 hours, and German troops marched across the borders at 0600 hours unopposed. In the evening, Adolf Hitler entered Prague in a grand parade. During the day in eastern Czechoslovakia, Hungarian forces marched into Ruthenia, ending the one-day-old nation of Capatho-Ukraine.
> 16 Mar 1939  In eastern Czechoslovakia, Slovakian leader Jozef Tiso sent a telegram, originally authored by Hermann Göring, to ask for German troops to enter Slovakian borders. In western Czechoslovakia, Germany declared the formation of the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, with Konstantin von Neurath as the German Protector, immediately enacting anti-Semitic laws.
> Dismemberment of Czechoslovakia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was no Czechoslovakia on 14 March 1939, that was the official position of GB and France, I have even highlighted the quoted text so you can see, that neither GB nor France had any obligation to Czechoslovakia, they recognized the sovereignty of Slovakia.
> 
> The legal Slovak government asked the Third Reich to protect them from the aggression of the Czech government.
> 
> The collapse of this artificial state, called Czechoslovakia, happened without any violence, nobody was killed.
> 
> How could Hitler invade Czechoslovakia on 15 March 1939, if GB and France recognized the collapse of Czechoslovakia on 14 March 1939 and recognized the Slovak as an independent state?
> 
> Can you please answer this simple question instead of repeating your BS?
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...but we will not allow Putin to push his weight around European democracies even if he is a friend of the new so-called president of the USA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who "we"?
> 
> The Western banksters used Stalin against Hitler, a big state with big resources.
> Whom can the western banksters use against the same country, that was used against Hitler?
> 
> Do you really believe that Americans can be used against Russia?
> America cannot protect their own boarders, it is flooded by third world migrants that are destroying USA from within.
> 
> The occupation of Sudetenland was a peaceful process, Slovaks asked for protection from the Czechs, this process was also peaceful.
> The Crimean Peninsula and RF reunited PEACEFULLY, nobody was killed.
> 
> And now look at how USA invades countries on the other side of the globe: million civilians are killed, Americans are brought home in body bags.
> 
> Do you really believe that banksters can find enough people who are ready to die on the other side of the world?
> 
> Oh man, you are so wrong!
> 
> Instead of messing in the affairs of the Crimean population, who are happy with their new status (they were not ethnically cleansed from their land) why not solve real conflicts, where people are killed or kept in concentration camps?
> 
> Americans should solve real conflicts, if they want to be the "World Policemen", like the Palestinian conflicts, where Zionists ethnically cleans the Palestinian land, annex it and replace the native Semites of Palestine with European migrants who claim that their ancestors lived 2000 years ago in this region.
> 
> That is a real violation of the international law, and this is going on for decades!
Click to expand...

You continue to contradict yourself. Do you read what you copy and paste?
You wrote: "Czechoslovakian President Emil Hácha met with Adolf Hitler".
Then you wrote: "There was no Czechoslovakia on 14 March 1939".
You claim that Czechoslovakia ceased to exist because "that was the official position of GB and France" but it was not in the ability of Britain and France to decide that Czechoslovakia ceased as a state.
Hitler took Czechoslovakia in stages in a similar way as Putin is taking Ukraine.
You say: "The collapse of this artificial state, called Czechoslovakia, happened _without any violence, nobody was killed_."
Here again is an example of how Putin is acting like Hitler. He can boast that Crimea was annexed_ without any violence, nobody was killed_. Sound familiar?
"As a result of the annexation of the Sudetenland, Czechoslovakia lost 800,000 citizens, much of its industry and its mountain defenses in the west." (Wikipedia)
Hitler claimed that the annexation of Sudetenland was to restore German speakers and land to Germany. Putin likewise pretends to restore Russian speakers and the land to Russia.
Seeing that the west was allowing Hitler to take territory from Czechoslovakia, Poland and Hungary claimed back territory from the weakened and defenseless Czechs. Note the careful wording in the Wikipedia in the following sentence: "On 15 March 1939, the German _Wehrmacht_ moved into the remainder of Czechoslovakia and, from Prague Castle, Hitler proclaimed Bohemia and Moravia the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, completing the German occupation of Czechoslovakia."
Yes, the west appeased Hitler and sacrificed the Czech people for a promise of peace. No doubt, Putin is hoping the west will also sacrifice the people of Ukraine for peace but there is a difference this time. The west is not forsaking the Ukrainians in their time of need. Rhe European Union will not redraw the map of Ukraine as Czechoslovakia was redrawn. Even if the so-called President Trump does a deal with his friend Putin and relax sanctions on Russia, the Europeans will not go down in history as the English and the French appeasers have done.
The only language a bully like Putin understands is strength and the bullet.


----------



## ESay

Art__Allm said:


> The crucial point is that Ivan Grozny was ruling Russia from Moscow, not from Kiev.


I don’t get it. The crucial point for what? That all Veliko-Russian rulers have a right on territory of all Ancient Rus even after the Rurik dynasty ceased to exist there?



Art__Allm said:


> Bolsheviks supported these separatists, who were a minority.


At the time of falling of the Russian Empire a national question was one of the most important ones, as it was during a fall of the USSR. I have a feeling that Bolsheviks simply followed the saying “If you can’t stop a process – take the lead in it”. Creating national soviet republics was an attempt to do that.

And who do you consider as separatists? Those who began to call themselves Ukrainians rather than Malo-Russians? Considering that the process of ‘ukrainization’ was smooth, it possible to make a conclusion that if they were a minority then not overwhelming. 



Art__Allm said:


> I think that Russia does not have any intentions to incorporate the destroyed parts of Ukraine into the RF, the Crimean Peninsula was just an exception, because in this region there is a very clear ethnic and cultural situation.


Sure it doesn’t. All that staff in Donbas is only a leverage and bargaining point in their dispute with the West.



Art__Allm said:


> Russia just wants a friendly neighbour, and how can any honest human being blame Russia for that?


A friendly neighbor? It is hardly possible to do that in the current situation. The Baltic states, Poland, and Ukraine (if it will manage to survive) will have mostly anti-Russian stance in the foreseeable future at least.


----------



## Art__Allm

ESay said:


> I don’t get it. The crucial point for what? That all Veliko-Russian rulers have a right on territory of all Ancient Rus even after the Rurik dynasty ceased to exist there?



The Russian Tsars were Rulers of all Russian lands, not only of Veliko-Russia. And yes, this was not questioned by any Russians, be it Malo-Russians, Belo-Russians or Veliko-Russians (Царь Всея Руси).
So the only legitimisation the Ukrainian state in its old Soviet boarders had was the decrees of bloody Communist dictators.

That is not a very good moral position, is it?




ESay said:


> At the time of falling of the Russian Empire a national question was one of the most important ones...



The only "national question" that existed in the Russian Empire was the JQ.
American Banksters made from this question a greater question.



ESay said:


> I have a feeling that Bolsheviks simply followed the saying “If you can’t stop a process – take the lead in it”.
> Creating national soviet republics was an attempt to do that.



BS, if that was the case, the Bolsheviks could do without the money of American banksters and without Chinese sadists.



> At Odessa the Cheka tied White officers to planks and slowly fed them into furnaces or tanks of boiling water; in Kharkiv, scalpings and hand-flayings were commonplace: the skin was peeled off victims' hands to produce "gloves"; the Voronezh Cheka rolled naked people around in barrels studded internally with nails; victims were crucified or stoned to death at Dnipropetrovsk; the Cheka at Kremenchuk impaled members of the clergy and buried alive rebelling peasants; in Orel, water was poured on naked prisoners bound in the winter streets until they became living ice statues; in Kiev, Chinese Cheka detachments placed rats in iron tubes sealed at one end with wire netting and the other placed against the body of a prisoner, with the tubes being heated until the rats gnawed through the victim's body in an effort to escape.[28]
> Red Terror - Wikipedia
> 
> In his book _Between Red and White_, Leon Trotsky makes sarcastic reference to the charge that the Soviets held Petrograd and Moscow "by the aid of 'Lettish, Chinese, German and Bashkir regiments'".[22]
> 
> The Red Army commander Iona Yakir headed a Chinese detachment guarding Lenin and Trotsky. Later he headed a regiment made up of volunteer Chinese workers, which achieved distinction in battle when the Red Army heavily defeated (temporarily) Romanian troops in February 1918 during the Romanian occupation of Bessarabia.
> 
> 
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe.../300px-WhiteArmyPropagandaPosterOfTrotsky.jpg
> 
> 1919 White Army propaganda poster. Chinese soldiers wearing braids and blue-gold uniforms are depicted executing a prisoner and shoveling bones.





ESay said:


> And who do you consider as separatists? Those who began to call themselves Ukrainians rather than Malo-Russians?



Yes.



ESay said:


> A friendly neighbor? It is hardly possible to do that in the current situation.



Yes, of course. The Junta, supported by Soros and Obama's administration, like the "Fuck-the-EU-Nuland" (I hope she will be imprisoned under Trump's administration) and installed in Kiev killed too many civilians in New Russia, destroyed the infrastructure.

Somebody, who believes that these Regions will peacefully return into Ukrainian state, are idiots.

The same with the Crimean Peninsula, the population of this region will fight to the last man. The reunification with Russia was peaceful, but if Ukraine wants to get these lands back, the Junta would have to commit even more atrocities, they will have to cleanse this land from its native population

Some warmongers in this thread already mentioned German lands in East Europe that were ethnically cleansed from Germans.

These atrocities against civilians are not mentioned a lot in the lying media.

It does not matter who is President in Russia, Crimean Peninsula is part of Russian history.

If you want to take this land away from Russia you have to fight WWIII and commit atrocities against civilians, ethnically cleans the territory from its native population, like the winners did with German civilians after WWII.

Do you really believe that EU or USA are ready to start WWIII, and that the population of these countries is ready to sacrifice so much?

BTW, if you speak Russian, you can read Russian media an find out that most Russians do not take all these threats of EU, USA or Nato seriously.

They call Europe *"Incontinent Gayropa".*

They see decadent and senile population, a collapsing culture that is not even able to protect their own boarders.

Do you really believe that you can fight the Russian bear in its own lair with gay cowboys?



What are the American soldiers going to die for?

For the rights to have gay pride parades and the right for sexual deviants to use the bathrooms of girls? Do you not understand that if there will be a big war, you have to mobilise a lot of people, mercenaries will not do the job.



ESay said:


> The Baltic states, Poland, and Ukraine (if it will manage to survive) will have mostly anti-Russian stance in the foreseeable future at least.



EU is forcing Poland to take refugees, Poland refuses. EU will react with sanctions. If the Catholic Poland refuses to accept the LGBT agenda, like gay weddings in their Catholic churches or lesson about the pleasures of homosexuality in the primary school, there will be more sanctions against Poland.

And Polish elite will then have to listen to their own people, or to their globalist masters. That could end in a civil war.

They will do the same with the Ukraine.

The Baltic States are literally dying, they do not have any natural increase of population, they have a few young people and an astronomical suicide rate for such small ethnic groups.

The "World Government" will force the marionettes in these lands to take refugees from the Third World, you can ethnically destroy these Baltic States in one year.

And do not forget, most Poles have already visited London, they have heard about the rape of Brits by the Migrants, they are not very fond of the "enrichment" that the Globalist banksters are going to force upon them.

Many Ukrainians, who have already visited London or Paris, can imagine how KIev will look in a couple of decades, if they become part of the "free world".

So I think that the future will be not like you have pictured it, and nobody knows how long Globalists can push their unnatural agenda.

The most efficient weapon of Globalists was their lying media, but this weapon does not work any more. 

The election in the USA seems to be the turning point in human history, though some people just cannot get it.


----------



## ESay

Art__Allm said:


> The only "national question" that existed in the Russian Empire was the JQ.
> American Banksters made from this question a greater question.


What is JQ? It is the Jew question or something like that? Of course it existed too, but it wasn’t the only one.



Art__Allm said:


> Yes, of course. The Junta, supported by Soros and Obama's administration, like the "Fuck-the-EU-Nuland" (I hope she will be imprisoned under Trump's administration) and installed in Kiev killed too many civilians in New Russia, destroyed the infrastructure.


My bet is she will get an official position in Dep of State rather than that.



Art__Allm said:


> Somebody, who believes that these Regions will peacefully return into Ukrainian state, are idiots.


These regions shouldn’t and won’t be returned into Ukraine in foreseeable future, and all the policy of the Ukrainian authorities is aimed on this. I can’t believe that this isn’t obvious for somebody yet.



Art__Allm said:


> The same with the Crimean Peninsula, the population of this region will fight to the last man. The reunification with Russia was peaceful, but if Ukraine wants to get these lands back, the Junta would have to commit even more atrocities, they will have to cleanse this land from its native population


Actually, thanks to bloody Communist dictators the native population had been replaced from there many years ago and the Russians are the majority there now. That is not a very good moral position, is it?



Art__Allm said:


> If you want to take this land away from Russia you have to fight WWIII and commit atrocities against civilians, ethnically cleans the territory from its native population, like the winners did with German civilians after WWII.
> 
> Do you really believe that EU or USA are ready to start WWIII, and that the population of these countries is ready to sacrifice so much?
> 
> BTW, if you speak Russian, you can read Russian media an find out that most Russians do not take all these threats of EU, USA or Nato seriously.
> 
> They call Europe *"Incontinent Gayropa".*
> 
> They see decadent and senile population, a collapsing culture that is not even able to protect their own boarders.
> 
> Do you really believe that you can fight the Russian bear in its own lair with gay cowboys?


All that fairy tales about WWIII is bullshit. The Soviet Union had powerful army; a half of Europe was under its rule. And where is it now? Nobody is going to attack Russia by using military force. It is simply there is no need to do so.


----------



## Art__Allm

Eloy said:


> You continue to contradict yourself. Do you read what you copy and paste?
> You wrote: "Czechoslovakian President Emil Hácha met with Adolf Hitler".
> 
> Then you wrote: "There was no Czechoslovakia on 14 March 1939".
> You claim that Czechoslovakia ceased to exist because "that was the official position of GB and France" but it was not in the ability of Britain and France to decide that Czechoslovakia ceased as a state.



That is a simple English text. Is English not your native language?
Do you not understand that Emil Hacha met with Hitler before the mentioned countries recognised the independence of Slovakia?
Do you not understand that SLOVAKIA declared its independence?

BTW, have you noticed that there is no Czechoslovakia any more?



Eloy said:


> Hitler took Czechoslovakia in stages...



I looked on the map and could not find any Czechoslovakia. So who destroyed Czechoslovakia after the collapse of Communism? Did they have to resurrect Hitler for that?




Eloy said:


> ... in a similar way as Putin is taking Ukraine.



The only similarity between Ukraine and Czechoslovakia is that both of them were artificial creation, that could only exist under a bloody Communist dictatorship.

There is no Czechoslovakia any more, despite the atrocities, committed against the native population of Silesia, the Germans.

Do you hope that you can commit atrocities against the native Population of Crimea and ethnically cleanse it, like it was the case with Silesia?



Eloy said:


> You say: "The collapse of this artificial state, called Czechoslovakia, happened _without any violence, nobody was killed_."
> Here again is an example of how Putin is acting like Hitler. He can boast that Crimea was annexed_ without any violence, nobody was killed_. Sound familiar?



What is your point? Do you want to say that the only way to annex land is via ethnic cleansing, like the Zionist do today in Palestine, or the allies did after WWII, committing atrocities against German civilians?



Eloy said:


> Hitler claimed that the annexation of Sudetenland was to restore German speakers and land to Germany. Putin likewise pretends to restore Russian speakers and the land to Russia.



I still cannot get your point. Is it bad when people have the right to self-determination and peacefully reunite? Does the annexation of land be like it is today done in Palestine?



Eloy said:


> Seeing that the west was allowing Hitler to take territory from Czechoslovakia, Poland and Hungary claimed back territory from the weakened and defenseless Czechs. Note the careful wording in the Wikipedia in the following sentence: "On 15 March 1939, the German _Wehrmacht_ moved into the remainder of Czechoslovakia and, from Prague Castle, Hitler proclaimed Bohemia and Moravia the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, completing the German occupation of Czechoslovakia."



Did I write this article?
It is obvious that it should be "ex-Czechoslovakia".



Eloy said:


> Yes, the west appeased Hitler and sacrificed the Czech people for a promise of peace.



Your argumentation is idiotic. Did Hitler destroy Czechoslovakia after the collapse of Communism?
Is it not obvious that Czechoslovakia was an ARTIFICIAL STATE, that could only exist under Communist dictatorship?




Eloy said:


> No doubt, Putin is hoping the west will also sacrifice the people of Ukraine for peace but there is a difference this time.



If there are still Ukrainians, who have not visited Paris or London, they can find out in the internet that French and British people are already sacrificed, they are already a minority in their own capitals. I do not hink that you can scare anybody with "them Russians", when Paris is in flames, and the police is unable to control the situation.

The former English city of London is already governed by a Muslim.

What do you think, would the English soldiers, who died in WWII, still have been ready to die, if they could see what will happen to London after WWII?



Eloy said:


> The west is not forsaking the Ukrainians in their time of need. Rhe European Union will not redraw the map of Ukraine as Czechoslovakia was redrawn.



What "West" are you talking about?

The globalist financial elite?

How many times do I have to repeat that there is no Czechoslovakia any more, this artificial state DIED despite the atrocities, committed against the Germans in the Sudetenland.

Many Brits and Frenchmen, who are now a persecuted minority in their own capitals, ask themselves: What did our ancestors die for in WWII?




Eloy said:


> Even if the so-called President Trump...



So-called president?
What are you talking about?
Who are you?





Eloy said:


> ... does a deal with his friend Putin and relax sanctions on Russia, the Europeans will not go down in history as the English and the French appeasers have done.



Brits have already lost their capital, they are now a minority there. They were stampeded into WWII, because the media told them that Germans are going to invade their island. Today they are invaded by Third World migrants.



Eloy said:


> The only language a bully like Putin understands is strength and the bullet.



Are you yourself ready to die in a war with Russia, or do you hope that you can stampede others into a war?

BTW, Putin is a very moderate president, the alternative to Putin will be a real Russian patriot.


----------



## Eloy

Art__Allm said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You continue to contradict yourself. Do you read what you copy and paste?
> You wrote: "Czechoslovakian President Emil Hácha met with Adolf Hitler".
> 
> Then you wrote: "There was no Czechoslovakia on 14 March 1939".
> You claim that Czechoslovakia ceased to exist because "that was the official position of GB and France" but it was not in the ability of Britain and France to decide that Czechoslovakia ceased as a state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is a simple English text. Is English not your native language?
> Do you not understand that Emil Hacha met with Hitler before the mentioned countries recognised the independence of Slovakia?
> Do you not understand that SLOVAKIA declared its independence?
> 
> BTW, have you noticed that there is no Czechoslovakia any more?
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler took Czechoslovakia in stages...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I looked on the map and could not find any Czechoslovakia. So who destroyed Czechoslovakia after the collapse of Communism? Did they have to resurrect Hitler for that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... in a similar way as Putin is taking Ukraine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only similarity between Ukraine and Czechoslovakia is that both of them were artificial creation, that could only exist under a bloody Communist dictatorship.
> 
> There is no Czechoslovakia any more, despite the atrocities, committed against the native population of Silesia, the Germans.
> 
> Do you hope that you can commit atrocities against the native Population of Crimea and ethnically cleanse it, like it was the case with Silesia?
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You say: "The collapse of this artificial state, called Czechoslovakia, happened _without any violence, nobody was killed_."
> Here again is an example of how Putin is acting like Hitler. He can boast that Crimea was annexed_ without any violence, nobody was killed_. Sound familiar?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is your point? Do you want to say that the only way to annex land is via ethnic cleansing, like the Zionist do today in Palestine, or the allies did after WWII, committing atrocities against German civilians?
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler claimed that the annexation of Sudetenland was to restore German speakers and land to Germany. Putin likewise pretends to restore Russian speakers and the land to Russia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I still cannot get your point. Is it bad when people have the right to self-determination and peacefully reunite? Does the annexation of land be like it is today done in Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seeing that the west was allowing Hitler to take territory from Czechoslovakia, Poland and Hungary claimed back territory from the weakened and defenseless Czechs. Note the careful wording in the Wikipedia in the following sentence: "On 15 March 1939, the German _Wehrmacht_ moved into the remainder of Czechoslovakia and, from Prague Castle, Hitler proclaimed Bohemia and Moravia the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, completing the German occupation of Czechoslovakia."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did I write this article?
> It is obvious that it should be "ex-Czechoslovakia".
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the west appeased Hitler and sacrificed the Czech people for a promise of peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your argumentation is idiotic. Did Hitler destroy Czechoslovakia after the collapse of Communism?
> Is it not obvious that Czechoslovakia was an ARTIFICIAL STATE, that could only exist under Communist dictatorship?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt, Putin is hoping the west will also sacrifice the people of Ukraine for peace but there is a difference this time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If there are still Ukrainians, who have not visited Paris or London, they can find out in the internet that French and British people are already sacrificed, they are already a minority in their own capitals. I do not hink that you can scare anybody with "them Russians", when Paris is in flames, and the police is unable to control the situation.
> 
> The former English city of London is already governed by a Muslim.
> 
> What do you think, would the English soldiers, who died in WWII, still have been ready to die, if they could see what will happen to London after WWII?
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The west is not forsaking the Ukrainians in their time of need. Rhe European Union will not redraw the map of Ukraine as Czechoslovakia was redrawn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What "West" are you talking about?
> 
> The globalist financial elite?
> 
> How many times do I have to repeat that there is no Czechoslovakia any more, this artificial state DIED despite the atrocities, committed against the Germans in the Sudetenland.
> 
> Many Brits and Frenchmen, who are now a persecuted minority in their own capitals, ask themselves: What did our ancestors die for in WWII?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even if the so-called President Trump...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So-called president?
> What are you talking about?
> Who are you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... does a deal with his friend Putin and relax sanctions on Russia, the Europeans will not go down in history as the English and the French appeasers have done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Brits have already lost their capital, they are now a minority there. They were stampeded into WWII, because the media told them that Germans are going to invade their island. Today they are invaded by Third World migrants.
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only language a bully like Putin understands is strength and the bullet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you yourself ready to die in a war with Russia, or do you hope that you can stampede others into a war?
> 
> BTW, Putin is a very moderate president, the alternative to Putin will be a real Russian patriot.
Click to expand...

Your long and disjointed response to my post is too full of propaganda and error to fully answer you. 
Simply out, Hitler used the argument that Germany had the right to reclaim land which was taken away by the Versailles Treaty because he was uniting ethnic Germans to the Reich. This is exactly what Putin has done with Crimea and is doing in eastern Ukraine. Everyone knows this.


----------



## irosie91

I do not understand  ART-ALLM-----I have encountered many Czechs and many Ukrainians------here in the USA over the past 65 years-------The Czechs did not
speak german or say they were from Germans.    The Ukrainians did not call them-
selves  "Russians"        In fact they seem to have a gripe with the invasions of the past


----------



## Art__Allm

Eloy said:


> Simply out, Hitler used the argument that Germany had the right to reclaim land which was taken away by the Versailles Treaty because he was uniting ethnic Germans to the Reich.
> .



You are sounding like a bot that was programmed to play the old and tired "Hitler-Card".

First of all do not forget that WWI became so devastating, because USA was involved in this war, and that was due to the efforts of Zionists:



> In the new British strategic thinking, the Zionists appeared as a potential ally capable of safeguarding British imperial interests in the region. Furthermore, as British war prospects dimmed throughout 1917, the War Cabinet calculated that supporting a Jewish entity in Palestine would mobilize America's influential Jewish community to support United States intervention in the war and sway the large number of Jewish Bolsheviks who participated in the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution to keep Russia in the war. Fears were also voiced in the Foreign Office that if Britain did not come out in favor of a Jewish entity in Palestine the Germans would preempt them. Finally, both Lloyd George and Balfour were devout churchgoers who attached great religious significance to the proposed reinstatement of the Jews in their ancient homeland.
> 
> Palestine During World War I



The *Fourteen Points* of Wilson's plan guaranteed all ethnic groups in Europe a right to self determination. Germans bedevilled that USA would really respect the right of Germans, too, that is why the agreed to make peace.

But the rights of Germans were neglected after they stopped fighting, they did not have any right to self-determination, and the lands that were for centuries German lands were given to new artificial states, like Poland or Czechoslovakia.

No German Parliament recognised the new boarders of the dismembered Germany.

To reunite Germany was the wish of absolutely all parties in the Weimar Republic, no German parliament in the Weimar Republic ever agreed to the dismemberment of Germany.

The wish of Germans to reunite had nothing to do with Hitler.
Hitler had just to follow the line that was set by all parties of the Weimar Republic.

The Brits eventually understood that the Treaty of Versailles was not just, and they agreed to the reunification of German lands.

So the appeasement policy was a rational thing to do in order to avoid an unnecessary fratricidal war between Europeans.

Chamberlain was a good guy, he was not a blood thirsty warmonger.

 And Rudolf Hess tried to prevent a devastating war between GB and Germany even after the Brits already declared a "funny war" to the Third Reich.

Churchill (speak his financiers, this alcoholic constantly needed money) was the real warmonger, who wanted a war with Germany. Churchill was a puppet of the Globalists, and warmongering was the agenda of Globalists since the Napoleonic Wars.



Eloy said:


> This is exactly what Putin has done with Crimea and is doing in eastern Ukraine. Everyone knows this.



Exactly like Churchill (speak his financiers) was pushing for an unnecessary war between Europeans in the thirties, today the same crazy Globalist forces are pushing for a new fratricidal war between Europeans.

Your logic is so faulty and your tactics are so old and so primitive:
you try to establish a "guilt by association", and this is a logical fallacy.

Hitler is the "absolute evil", and that is why you are so desperately trying to establish an association between Hitler and Putin, and you hope that this "circular reasoning" can justify your warmongering and your instigation of hate against Russians and their elected president.

Well, Hitler loved animals, and he was a vegetarian.

According to your circular logic anybody who loves animals or does not eat meat is a "new Hitler".



Anybody (Trump or Putin), who does not sell the interests of people he represents to the Globalists, is in your "circular reasoning" a "New Hitler".

The fact remains, that the reunification of German lands was done peacefully, but the restoration of artificial states, like Czechoslovakia, that could only exist under Communist dictatorship, was done via ethic cleansing and atrocities against the native population (Germans).

Constantly playing the "Hitler Card" you implicitly threaten with ethnic cleansing and atrocities against civilians of the Crimean Peninsula and are de facto implicitly agitating for WWIII.

But this will not change anything.

The ethnic cleansing and atrocities against the Germans in Silesia was in vain, because Czechoslovakia does onto exist any more, and the once prosperous German land of Silesia became a backward province of Czechoslovakia, the Commies were not even able to re-populate this once prosperous German land.

They were able to commit atrocities and expel the native German population, but they were not able to maintain the civilisation, that existed on the ethnically cleansed land.

BTW, what about Israel?
It seems that you do not mind the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian land, speak you do not care a rat's ass about international law.

All your argumentation is limited to the old and tired "Nazi Card", and such an argumentation is very dull.

This "Hitler-Card"-shit is even boring for Russian historians now, because they know the real reasons of WWII.

Stalin's Missed Chance - Wikipedia

Russia accuses Poland of starting Second World War

Winston Churchill, a good friend to the Jews

Churchill, Hitler and the Unnecessary War - Wikipedia


----------



## Eloy

Art__Allm said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Simply out, Hitler used the argument that Germany had the right to reclaim land which was taken away by the Versailles Treaty because he was uniting ethnic Germans to the Reich.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are sounding like a bot that was programmed to play the old and tired "Hitler-Card".
> 
> First of all do not forget that WWI became so devastating, because USA was involved in this war, and that was due to the efforts of Zionists:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the new British strategic thinking, the Zionists appeared as a potential ally capable of safeguarding British imperial interests in the region. Furthermore, as British war prospects dimmed throughout 1917, the War Cabinet calculated that supporting a Jewish entity in Palestine would mobilize America's influential Jewish community to support United States intervention in the war and sway the large number of Jewish Bolsheviks who participated in the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution to keep Russia in the war. Fears were also voiced in the Foreign Office that if Britain did not come out in favor of a Jewish entity in Palestine the Germans would preempt them. Finally, both Lloyd George and Balfour were devout churchgoers who attached great religious significance to the proposed reinstatement of the Jews in their ancient homeland.
> 
> Palestine During World War I
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The *Fourteen Points* of Wilson's plan guaranteed all ethnic groups in Europe a right to self determination. Germans bedevilled that USA would really respect the right of Germans, too, that is why the agreed to make peace.
> 
> But the rights of Germans were neglected after they stopped fighting, they did not have any right to self-determination, and the lands that were for centuries German lands were given to new artificial states, like Poland or Czechoslovakia.
> 
> No German Parliament recognised the new boarders of the dismembered Germany.
> 
> To reunite Germany was the wish of absolutely all parties in the Weimar Republic, no German parliament in the Weimar Republic ever agreed to the dismemberment of Germany.
> 
> The wish of Germans to reunite had nothing to do with Hitler.
> Hitler had just to follow the line that was set by all parties of the Weimar Republic.
> 
> The Brits eventually understood that the Treaty of Versailles was not just, and they agreed to the reunification of German lands.
> 
> So the appeasement policy was a rational thing to do in order to avoid an unnecessary fratricidal war between Europeans.
> 
> Chamberlain was a good guy, he was not a blood thirsty warmonger.
> 
> And Rudolf Hess tried to prevent a devastating war between GB and Germany even after the Brits already declared a "funny war" to the Third Reich.
> 
> Churchill (speak his financiers, this alcoholic constantly needed money) was the real warmonger, who wanted a war with Germany. Churchill was a puppet of the Globalists, and warmongering was the agenda of Globalists since the Napoleonic Wars.
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is exactly what Putin has done with Crimea and is doing in eastern Ukraine. Everyone knows this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly like Churchill (speak his financiers) was pushing for an unnecessary war between Europeans in the thirties, today the same crazy Globalist forces are pushing for a new fratricidal war between Europeans.
> 
> Your logic is so faulty and your tactics are so old and so primitive:
> you try to establish a "guilt by association", and this is a logical fallacy.
> 
> Hitler is the "absolute evil", and that is why you are so desperately trying to establish an association between Hitler and Putin, and you hope that this "circular reasoning" can justify your warmongering and your instigation of hate against Russians and their elected president.
> 
> Well, Hitler loved animals, and he was a vegetarian.
> 
> According to your circular logic anybody who loves animals or does not eat meat is a "new Hitler".
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody (Trump or Putin), who does not sell the interests of people he represents to the Globalists, is in your "circular reasoning" a "New Hitler".
> 
> The fact remains, that the reunification of German lands was done peacefully, but the restoration of artificial states, like Czechoslovakia, that could only exist under Communist dictatorship, was done via ethic cleansing and atrocities against the native population (Germans).
> 
> Constantly playing the "Hitler Card" you implicitly threaten with ethnic cleansing and atrocities against civilians of the Crimean Peninsula and are de facto implicitly agitating for WWIII.
> 
> But this will not change anything.
> 
> The ethnic cleansing and atrocities against the Germans in Silesia was in vain, because Czechoslovakia does onto exist any more, and the once prosperous German land of Silesia became a backward province of Czechoslovakia, the Commies were not even able to re-populate this once prosperous German land.
> 
> They were able to commit atrocities and expel the native German population, but they were not able to maintain the civilisation, that existed on the ethnically cleansed land.
> 
> BTW, what about Israel?
> It seems that you do not mind the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian land, speak you do not care a rat's ass about international law.
> 
> All your argumentation is limited to the old and tired "Nazi Card", and such an argumentation is very dull.
> 
> This "Hitler-Card"-shit is even boring for Russian historians now, because they know the real reasons of WWII.
> 
> Stalin's Missed Chance - Wikipedia
> 
> Russia accuses Poland of starting Second World War
> 
> Winston Churchill, a good friend to the Jews
> 
> Churchill, Hitler and the Unnecessary War - Wikipedia
Click to expand...

You need to recognize the simple logical formula:
H=X and P=X ∴ H=P
where H is Hitler, P is Putin and X is the claim that uniting ethnicity resident in a foreign country to a perceived homeland is an excuse to invade.


----------



## Art__Allm

Eloy said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Simply out, Hitler ue argument thany had the right to reclaim land which was taken away by the Versailles Treaty because he was uniting ethnic Germans to the Reich.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are sounding like a bot that was programmed to play the old and tired "Hitler-Card".
> 
> First of all do not forget that WWI became so devastating, because USA was involved in this war, and that was due to the efforts of Zionists:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the new British strategic thinking, the Zionists appeared as a potential ally capable of safeguarding British imperial interests in the region. Furthermore, as British war prospects dimmed throughout 1917, the War Cabinet calculated that supporting a Jewish entity in Palestine would mobilize America's influential Jewish community to support United States intervention in the war and sway the large number of Jewish Bolsheviks who participated in the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution to keep Russia in the war. Fears were also voiced in the Foreign Office that if Britain did not come out in favor of a Jewish entity in Palestine the Germans would preempt them. Finally, both Lloyd George and Balfour were devout churchgoers who attached great religious significance to the proposed reinstatement of the Jews in their ancient homeland.
> 
> Palestine During World War I
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The *Fourteen Points* of Wilson's plan guaranteed all ethnic groups in Europe a right to self determination. Germans bedevilled that USA would really respect the right of Germans, too, that is why the agreed to make peace.
> 
> But the rights of Germans were neglected after they stopped fighting, they did not have any right to self-determination, and the lands that were for centuries German lands were given to new artificial states, like Poland or Czechoslovakia.
> 
> No German Parliament recognised the new boarders of the dismembered Germany.
> 
> To reunite Germany was the wish of absolutely all parties in the Weimar Republic, no German parliament in the Weimar Republic ever agreed to the dismemberment of Germany.
> 
> The wish of Germans to reunite had nothing to do with Hitler.
> Hitler had just to follow the line that was set by all parties of the Weimar Republic.
> 
> The Brits eventually understood that the Treaty of Versailles was not just, and they agreed to the reunification of German lands.
> 
> So the appeasement policy was a rational thing to do in order to avoid an unnecessary fratricidal war between Europeans.
> 
> Chamberlain was a good guy, he was not a blood thirsty warmonger.
> 
> And Rudolf Hess tried to prevent a devastating war between GB and Germany even after the Brits already declared a "funny war" to the Third Reich.
> 
> Churchill (speak his financiers, this alcoholic constantly needed money) was the real warmonger, who wanted a war with Germany. Churchill was a puppet of the Globalists, and warmongering was the agenda of Globalists since the Napoleonic Wars.
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is exactly what Putin has done with Crimea and is doing in eastern Ukraine. Everyone knows this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly like Churchill (speak his financiers) was pushing for an unnecessary war between Europeans in the thirties, today the same crazy Globalist forces are pushing for a new fratricidal war between Europeans.
> 
> Your logic is so faulty and your tactics are so old and so primitive:
> you try to establish a "guilt by association", and this is a logical fallacy.
> 
> Hitler is the "absolute evil", and that is why you are so desperately trying to establish an association between Hitler and Putin, and you hope that this "circular reasoning" can justify your warmongering and your instigation of hate against Russians and their elected president.
> 
> Well, Hitler loved animals, and he was a vegetarian.
> 
> According to your circular logic anybody who loves animals or does not eat meat is a "new Hitler".
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody (Trump or Putin), who does not sell the interests of people he represents to the Globalists, is in your "circular reasoning" a "New Hitler".
> 
> The fact remains, that the reunification of German lands was done peacefully, but the restoration of artificial states, like Czechoslovakia, that could only exist under Communist dictatorship, was done via ethic cleansing and atrocities against the native population (Germans).
> 
> Constantly playing the "Hitler Card" you implicitly threaten with ethnic cleansing and atrocities against civilians of the Crimean Peninsula and are de facto implicitly agitating for WWIII.
> 
> But this will not change anything.
> 
> The ethnic cleansing and atrocities against the Germans in Silesia was in vain, because Czechoslovakia does onto exist any more, and the once prosperous German land of Silesia became a backward province of Czechoslovakia, the Commies were not even able to re-populate this once prosperous German land.
> 
> They were able to commit atrocities and expel the native German population, but they were not able to maintain the civilisation, that existed on the ethnically cleansed land.
> 
> BTW, what about Israel?
> It seems that you do not mind the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian land, speak you do not care a rat's ass about international law.
> 
> All your argumentation is limited to the old and tired "Nazi Card", and such an argumentation is very dull.
> 
> This "Hitler-Card"-shit is even boring for Russian historians now, because they know the real reasons of WWII.
> 
> Stalin's Missed Chance - Wikipedia
> 
> Russia accuses Poland of starting Second World War
> 
> Winston Churchill, a good friend to the Jews
> 
> Churchill, Hitler and the Unnecessary War - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to recognize the simple logical formula:
> H=X and P=X ∴ H=P
> where H is Hitler, P is Putin and X is the claim that uniting ethnicity resident in a foreign country to a perceived homeland is an excuse to invade.
Click to expand...


----------



## Art__Allm

Eloy said:


> You need to recognize the simple logical formula:
> H=X and P=X ∴ H=P
> where H is Hitler, P is Putin and X is the claim that uniting ethnicity resident in a foreign country to a perceived homeland is an excuse to invade.



It seems that you only accept violent creation of artificial states, via ethnic cleansing and atrocities against civilians, and do not accept the right of people to decide their own destiny.

 That is the reason why you support the creations of artificial entities, ruled by Commies (like former Czechoslovakia and former Ukraine) and do not mind the ongoing ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

BTW, what about Yugoslavia, another artificial creation of Commies, that could not dissolve peacefully?

The hypocrites from the self appointed 'World Government" did not mind in this case the shifting of boarders of former Commie entities and cutting off big chunks of Serbian land.

It seems that the selective irrational hate against Germans, Serbs, Palestinians and Russians is what motivates the warmongers from the wanna be "World Government".    

BTW, according to your crazy logic Americans did not have any right to separate from GB, because their territory belonged to the British State. 

Oy vay, the American separatists, supported by France and Russia, separated from GB against the agreement of the British monarch!

What a blatant violation of the integrity of the British Empire!

Were these American freedom fighters also "New/Old-Hitlers/Putin"?

Are you going to spew out another "logical formula"?


----------



## Eloy

Art__Allm said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to recognize the simple logical formula:
> H=X and P=X ∴ H=P
> where H is Hitler, P is Putin and X is the claim that uniting ethnicity resident in a foreign country to a perceived homeland is an excuse to invade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that you only accept violent creation of artificial states, via ethnic cleansing and atrocities against civilians, and do not accept the right of people to decide their own destiny.
> 
> That is the reason why you support the creations of artificial entities, ruled by Commies (like former Czechoslovakia and former Ukraine) and do not mind the ongoing ethnic cleansing of Palestine.
> 
> BTW, what about Yugoslavia, another artificial creation of Commies, that could not dissolve peacefully?
> 
> The hypocrites from the self appointed 'World Government" did not mind in this case the shifting of boarders of former Commie entities and cutting off big chunks of Serbian land.
> 
> It seems that the selective irrational hate against Germans, Serbs, Palestinians and Russians is what motivates the warmongers from the wanna be "World Government".
> 
> BTW, according to your crazy logic Americans did not have any right to separate from GB, because their territory belonged to the British State.
> 
> Oy vay, the American separatists, supported by France and Russia, separated from GB against the agreement of the British monarch!
> 
> What a blatant violation of the integrity of the British Empire!
> 
> Were these American freedom fighters also "New/Old-Hitlers/Putin"?
> 
> Are you going to spew out another "logical formula"?
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but your post is all over the place. I do not know where to begin answering you.
Just remember H=X and P=X ∴ H=P and you will understand.


----------



## Art__Allm

Eloy6637126 said:
			
		

> Just remember H=X and P=X ∴ H=P and you will understand.



Well, intelligent and unbiased people know that Putin is a good guy. 

We can check the facts, Putin is not a historical figure, he is a contemporary leader, so we do not need to rely on the opinion of historians and witnesses to judge Putin.

So if you are saying that Putin=Hitler, do you understand what you are doing?


----------



## Eloy

Art__Allm said:


> Eloy6637126 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just remember H=X and P=X ∴ H=P and you will understand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, intelligent and unbiased people know that Putin is a good guy.
> 
> We can check the facts, Putin is not a historical figure, he is a contemporary leader, so we do not need to rely on the opinion of historians and witnesses to judge Putin.
> 
> So if you are saying that Putin=Hitler, do you understand what you are doing?
Click to expand...

Indeed I am fully aware how autocrats act. It is common knowledge.


----------



## Art__Allm

Eloy said:


> Indeed I am fully aware how autocrats act. It is common knowledge.



Autocrats do not have any public support, dude.
Sorry, I do not have any times to discuss on this primitive and childish level.


----------



## Eloy

Art__Allm said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed I am fully aware how autocrats act. It is common knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Autocrats do not have any public support, dude.
> Sorry, I do not have any times to discuss on this primitive and childish level.
Click to expand...

I accept you have nothing more to say to me about Putin.
I am encouraged that people in Europe are on to him.


----------



## Art__Allm

Eloy said:


> I accept you have nothing more to say to me about Putin.
> I am encouraged that people in Europe are on to him.



Putin's approval rating is higher than of any EU-Puppet, dude.

You just make statements, but cannot support your statements with any facts.
You engage in circular reasoning, and that is boring and annoying.


----------



## Eloy

Art__Allm said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I accept you have nothing more to say to me about Putin.
> I am encouraged that people in Europe are on to him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin's approval rating is higher than of any EU-Puppet, dude.
> 
> You just make statements, but cannot support your statements with any facts.
> You engage in circular reasoning, and that is boring and annoying.
Click to expand...

I understand how annoying it can be for you when people disagree with you.
By annexing Crimea, supporting Russian-speaking rebels in eastern Ukraine, and by supplying the BUK missile that killed scores of Dutch families on board a civilian aircraft, Putin had become the bogeyman for Europeans. We are watching him very closely.


----------



## Art__Allm

double


----------



## Art__Allm

Eloy


> By annexing Crimea, supporting Russian-speaking rebels in eastern Ukraine, and by supplying the BUK missile that killed scores of Dutch families on board a civilian aircraft, Putin had become the bogeyman for Europeans. We are watching him very closely.




You just repeat your old BS like a bot that was programmed to spew anti Russian hate propaganda.

1. The Crimean Republic had a special status within the Ukraine, this republic had the right to separate from the Ukrainian state, that was written in the Ukrainian constitution.

2. The Ukrainian constitution was abolished by the Junta, which was on the payroll of the Obama administration. The lying media wined about the so-called " hacking" of American election (speak about exposing of the crimes, committed by Killary, which was supposedly done by Russians), but did not mind the direct support of illegal and violent power transition from the elected Ukrainian government to the Junta.

Ukrainian constitution clearly defined such power transition as illegal.

3. Crimean population just used their constitutional right and voted for a separation from the ex-Ukrainian state, destroyed by the Junta, and asked for reunification with Russia.

Russian parliament accepted this request.

4. All Ukrainians are Russian-Speaking, more than 90% speak Russian more fluently, than Ukrainian. It is idiotic to imply that the Ukrainian freedom fighters are the only Russian-Speakers in the ex-Ukraine.

5. If the Russian state really helped the Freedom Fighters in New Russia, they would have already expelled the Junta from Kiev.

6. The story with BUG is just a conspiracy theory, and Ukrainian authorities are responsible for the death of passengers, because they guided the plane through a dangerous war zone.

7. Putin is more popular among the Normies in the West, than their own leaders, who are just corrupt puppets on the payroll of Globalists.

No wonder that for these corrupt politicians Putin and Trump are "bogeymen".

But who cares?

The lying media of the corrupt establishment is losing its power.

BTW, you ignored my questions, so I will repeat them:



1. Do you speak Russian?

2. Were you able to locate Crimea on the map 10 years ago?

3. Are you yourself ready to die in WWIII, or do you hope that others would have to die, to satisfy your irrational anti-Russian hatred?

Instead of repeating your old BS, just answer these simple questions.

Thank you!


----------



## Marion Morrison

Bleipriester said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fear-mongering. Russia is a good partner.
> 
> 
> 
> President Assad of Syria would agree with you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everyone agrees. We had good relationship until the US regime and its Europuppets decided to overthrow an democratically elected government in the Ukraine only because it refused to sign the Ukraine–European Union Association Agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are not being accurate. Free Europe out from under the thumb of Moscau was joining the EU and benefiting greatly with outright grants and generous loans from the Eutopean Investment Bank for infrastructure renovation after decades of neglect under communism. The people of Ukraine were moving on application for EU membership and had entered into the Ukraine-European Union Association Agreement treaty which was destined to bring Ukraine closer to Europe. Vladimir Putin did not like the idea of the EU being right up against the Russian border and the then incumbent President of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych refused to sign the treaty, sparking a revolution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are entirely controlled by regime media. Corrupt Nazi Ukraine is chronically broke and mad.
> 
> Here are some news for you:
> 
> Politics:
> Ukraine´s Nazi party in the government.
> 
> With terrorist acts, Ukrainian regime cuts off power supply to Crimea
> 
> Shatterpated Ukrainian regime puts incompatible US fuel rods into largest European power plant
> 
> Ukraine: 730.000 fled to Russia
> 
> Ukraine: Regime´s masked Nazi mob storms protest camp, organizer expelled from country
> 
> Ukraine's Neo-Nazis Are the Most Dangerous in Europe
> 
> Ukraine honors nationalist whose troops killed 50,000 Jews
> 
> Top Ukraine official backs idea 'to help ISIS take revenge on Russian soldiers in Syria’
> 
> 
> Economy:
> PressTV-46 Ukraine banks declared bankrupt
> 
> 
> Military:
> Jewish Voice
> 
> Western Backed Ukainan Army Shelled Chemical Plant For Weeks,releasing Dangerous Chemicals,radiation
> 
> Kiev boasts of "organized withdrawal" from Debaltsevo
> 
> Ukranie pledges autonomy to rebellious east
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "EU extension team East"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-ISIS association demonstration
Click to expand...


One of those guys' rifle is pointed right at the guy next to him's head.

I realize current Ukraine leaders are Nazis.


----------



## Marion Morrison

Art__Allm said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t get it. The crucial point for what? That all Veliko-Russian rulers have a right on territory of all Ancient Rus even after the Rurik dynasty ceased to exist there?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Russian Tsars were Rulers of all Russian lands, not only of Veliko-Russia. And yes, this was not questioned by any Russians, be it Malo-Russians, Belo-Russians or Veliko-Russians (Царь Всея Руси).
> So the only legitimisation the Ukrainian state in its old Soviet boarders had was the decrees of bloody Communist dictators.
> 
> That is not a very good moral position, is it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the time of falling of the Russian Empire a national question was one of the most important ones...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only "national question" that existed in the Russian Empire was the JQ.
> American Banksters made from this question a greater question.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a feeling that Bolsheviks simply followed the saying “If you can’t stop a process – take the lead in it”.
> Creating national soviet republics was an attempt to do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> BS, if that was the case, the Bolsheviks could do without the money of American banksters and without Chinese sadists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At Odessa the Cheka tied White officers to planks and slowly fed them into furnaces or tanks of boiling water; in Kharkiv, scalpings and hand-flayings were commonplace: the skin was peeled off victims' hands to produce "gloves"; the Voronezh Cheka rolled naked people around in barrels studded internally with nails; victims were crucified or stoned to death at Dnipropetrovsk; the Cheka at Kremenchuk impaled members of the clergy and buried alive rebelling peasants; in Orel, water was poured on naked prisoners bound in the winter streets until they became living ice statues; in Kiev, Chinese Cheka detachments placed rats in iron tubes sealed at one end with wire netting and the other placed against the body of a prisoner, with the tubes being heated until the rats gnawed through the victim's body in an effort to escape.[28]
> Red Terror - Wikipedia
> 
> In his book _Between Red and White_, Leon Trotsky makes sarcastic reference to the charge that the Soviets held Petrograd and Moscow "by the aid of 'Lettish, Chinese, German and Bashkir regiments'".[22]
> 
> The Red Army commander Iona Yakir headed a Chinese detachment guarding Lenin and Trotsky. Later he headed a regiment made up of volunteer Chinese workers, which achieved distinction in battle when the Red Army heavily defeated (temporarily) Romanian troops in February 1918 during the Romanian occupation of Bessarabia.
> 
> 
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe.../300px-WhiteArmyPropagandaPosterOfTrotsky.jpg
> 
> 1919 White Army propaganda poster. Chinese soldiers wearing braids and blue-gold uniforms are depicted executing a prisoner and shoveling bones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> And who do you consider as separatists? Those who began to call themselves Ukrainians rather than Malo-Russians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> A friendly neighbor? It is hardly possible to do that in the current situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, of course. The Junta, supported by Soros and Obama's administration, like the "Fuck-the-EU-Nuland" (I hope she will be imprisoned under Trump's administration) and installed in Kiev killed too many civilians in New Russia, destroyed the infrastructure.
> 
> Somebody, who believes that these Regions will peacefully return into Ukrainian state, are idiots.
> 
> The same with the Crimean Peninsula, the population of this region will fight to the last man. The reunification with Russia was peaceful, but if Ukraine wants to get these lands back, the Junta would have to commit even more atrocities, they will have to cleanse this land from its native population
> 
> Some warmongers in this thread already mentioned German lands in East Europe that were ethnically cleansed from Germans.
> 
> These atrocities against civilians are not mentioned a lot in the lying media.
> 
> It does not matter who is President in Russia, Crimean Peninsula is part of Russian history.
> 
> If you want to take this land away from Russia you have to fight WWIII and commit atrocities against civilians, ethnically cleans the territory from its native population, like the winners did with German civilians after WWII.
> 
> Do you really believe that EU or USA are ready to start WWIII, and that the population of these countries is ready to sacrifice so much?
> 
> BTW, if you speak Russian, you can read Russian media an find out that most Russians do not take all these threats of EU, USA or Nato seriously.
> 
> They call Europe *"Incontinent Gayropa".*
> 
> They see decadent and senile population, a collapsing culture that is not even able to protect their own boarders.
> 
> Do you really believe that you can fight the Russian bear in its own lair with gay cowboys?
> 
> 
> 
> What are the American soldiers going to die for?
> 
> For the rights to have gay pride parades and the right for sexual deviants to use the bathrooms of girls? Do you not understand that if there will be a big war, you have to mobilise a lot of people, mercenaries will not do the job.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Baltic states, Poland, and Ukraine (if it will manage to survive) will have mostly anti-Russian stance in the foreseeable future at least.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> EU is forcing Poland to take refugees, Poland refuses. EU will react with sanctions. If the Catholic Poland refuses to accept the LGBT agenda, like gay weddings in their Catholic churches or lesson about the pleasures of homosexuality in the primary school, there will be more sanctions against Poland.
> 
> And Polish elite will then have to listen to their own people, or to their globalist masters. That could end in a civil war.
> 
> They will do the same with the Ukraine.
> 
> The Baltic States are literally dying, they do not have any natural increase of population, they have a few young people and an astronomical suicide rate for such small ethnic groups.
> 
> The "World Government" will force the marionettes in these lands to take refugees from the Third World, you can ethnically destroy these Baltic States in one year.
> 
> And do not forget, most Poles have already visited London, they have heard about the rape of Brits by the Migrants, they are not very fond of the "enrichment" that the Globalist banksters are going to force upon them.
> 
> Many Ukrainians, who have already visited London or Paris, can imagine how KIev will look in a couple of decades, if they become part of the "free world".
> 
> So I think that the future will be not like you have pictured it, and nobody knows how long Globalists can push their unnatural agenda.
> 
> The most efficient weapon of Globalists was their lying media, but this weapon does not work any more.
> 
> The election in the USA seems to be the turning point in human history, though some people just cannot get it.
Click to expand...


Awesome! There's Russian trolls here!  What's the propaganda of the day, comrade?  You have 2 prototype planes vs a fleet of F-16s?


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## Art__Allm

I am neither a Russian nor a troll.

I am just a good educated European who speaks 6 European languages, including Russian, and who does not support the anti-Russian hate propaganda, which is detrimental to the best interest of all white Christians.

Neo-Commie-Globalists send their "Comrades" into forums to instigate  another fratricidal war among the white Christians.

Ukrainian nationalists are today playing the role of "useful idiots",  like it was the case with Poles before WWII, which was only in the interest of international banksters.

ALL white Christians were de facto losers in the unnecessary WWII (they are losing their countries today due to WWII), and WWIII will be the last nail into the coffin of white Christian civilization.

The pro-globalist anti-Christian shills have today big difficulties to stampede the white Christians into another fratricidal war.

Their lying media became ineffective, that is why so many pro-globalist trolls and shills are vomiting their anti-Russian hate propaganda 7/24 into so many forums.

It is obvious that these war mongers get paid for their hate propaganda, but they are inefficient, because they are badly educated and do not even know what they are talking about.

Decent and intelligent people do not prostitute themselves for a couple of shekels, paid by Soros & Co.


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## Marion Morrison

Art__Allm said:


> I am neither a Russian nor a troll.
> 
> I am just a good educated European who speaks 6 European languages, including Russian, and who does not support the anti-Russian hate propaganda, which is detrimental to the best interest of all white Christians.
> 
> Neo-Commie-Globalists send their "Comrades" into forums to instigate  another fratricidal war among the white Christians.
> 
> Ukrainian nationalists are today playing the role of "useful idiots",  like it was the case with Poles before WWII, which was only in the interest of international banksters.
> 
> ALL white Christians were de facto losers in the unnecessary WWII (they are losing their countries today due to WWII), and WWIII will be the last nail into the coffin of white Christian civilization.
> 
> The pro-globalist anti-Christian shills have today big difficulties to stampede the white Christians into another fratricidal war.
> 
> Their lying media became ineffective, that is why so many pro-globalist trolls and shills are vomiting their anti-Russian hate propaganda 7/24 into so many forums.
> 
> It is obvious that these war mongers get paid for their hate propaganda, but they are inefficient, because they are badly educated and do not even know what they are talking about.
> 
> Decent and intelligent people do not prostitute themselves for a couple of shekels, paid by Soros & Co.



Mmhhmm. But The Russian Oligarchs pay better, huh?
 What are these 6 languages you speak? I only speak 2. I can understand and communicate in others, though.


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## Art__Allm

You do not even deny that you are paid for your 7/24 activity?



No, Russian oligarchs do not pay me, and they probably do not care, they are in most cases sell outs.


----------



## Eloy

Art__Allm said:


> You do not even deny that you are paid for your 7/24 activity?
> 
> 
> 
> No, Russian oligarchs do not pay me, and they probably do not care, they are in most cases sell outs.


I'm so sorry for your trouble.


Art__Allm said:


> Eloy
> 
> 
> 
> By annexing Crimea, supporting Russian-speaking rebels in eastern Ukraine, and by supplying the BUK missile that killed scores of Dutch families on board a civilian aircraft, Putin had become the bogeyman for Europeans. We are watching him very closely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You just repeat your old BS like a bot that was programmed to spew anti Russian hate propaganda.
> 
> 1. The Crimean Republic had a special status within the Ukraine, this republic had the right to separate from the Ukrainian state, that was written in the Ukrainian constitution.
> 
> 2. The Ukrainian constitution was abolished by the Junta, which was on the payroll of the Obama administration. The lying media wined about the so-called " hacking" of American election (speak about exposing of the crimes, committed by Killary, which was supposedly done by Russians), but did not mind the direct support of illegal and violent power transition from the elected Ukrainian government to the Junta.
> 
> Ukrainian constitution clearly defined such power transition as illegal.
> 
> 3. Crimean population just used their constitutional right and voted for a separation from the ex-Ukrainian state, destroyed by the Junta, and asked for reunification with Russia.
> 
> Russian parliament accepted this request.
> 
> 4. All Ukrainians are Russian-Speaking, more than 90% speak Russian more fluently, than Ukrainian. It is idiotic to imply that the Ukrainian freedom fighters are the only Russian-Speakers in the ex-Ukraine.
> 
> 5. If the Russian state really helped the Freedom Fighters in New Russia, they would have already expelled the Junta from Kiev.
> 
> 6. The story with BUG is just a conspiracy theory, and Ukrainian authorities are responsible for the death of passengers, because they guided the plane through a dangerous war zone.
> 
> 7. Putin is more popular among the Normies in the West, than their own leaders, who are just corrupt puppets on the payroll of Globalists.
> 
> No wonder that for these corrupt politicians Putin and Trump are "bogeymen".
> 
> But who cares?
> 
> The lying media of the corrupt establishment is losing its power.
> 
> BTW, you ignored my questions, so I will repeat them:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Do you speak Russian?
> 
> 2. Were you able to locate Crimea on the map 10 years ago?
> 
> 3. Are you yourself ready to die in WWIII, or do you hope that others would have to die, to satisfy your irrational anti-Russian hatred?
> 
> Instead of repeating your old BS, just answer these simple questions.
> 
> Thank you!
Click to expand...

1. I do not speak Russian.
2. Yes, I could find Crimea on a map. I have been a geography teacher, you know.
3.Civilians rarely have any choice about dying in wars.


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