# Arizona Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot In Arizona



## peach174

Just saw this on the news. Giffords has been shot along with 3 of her staff members, and now new repor thatt  their was 12 who have been shot.
This is totally unaceptable just because you don't agree with someone on politics  
I did not agree with her politics but she is my representive and now SE AZ has no representation.
I hope she will be alright.


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## JakeStarkey

Dana Bash is reporting that she is hurt badly.  I went through assassinations and attempts in the 1960s with many on this Board.  This is serious, very serious.


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## Madeline

O how terrible, peaches!


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## DiveCon

JakeStarkey said:


> Dana Bash is reporting that she is hurt badly.  I went through assassinations and attempts in the 1960s with many on this Board.  This is serious, very serious.


something i can agree with you on
this is VERY bad
 news and i hope they caught the shooter(s)


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## peach174

I'm so upset I 'm crying my eyes out right now.


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## DiveCon

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords Shot at Grocery Store Event - ABC News

Arizona Congresswoman Shot in the Head at Public Event - FoxNews.com


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## DiveCon

not much info on either of those links


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## Modbert

Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot In Arizona : NPR



> U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona was shot in the head outside a grocery store in Tucson while holding a public event, Arizona Public Media reported Saturday.



She'll be lucky to live.



> The suspect was tackled by a bystander and taken into custody. He was not injured.



Least they caught him.


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## Big Fitz

Uuh boy.  watch for Gestapo in your rear view mirror.

Can't wait till details about the shooter come out.


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## California Girl

What kind of people do this sort of thing? It's sick. Seriously. My prayers are with her, and those who were hurt... and their families.


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## Modbert

The Huffington Post is providing live updates.

Gabrielle Giffords Shot: Congresswoman Shot In Arizona (LIVE UPDATES)


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## Mr. H.

Not cool.


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## uscitizen

DANG!

Support to those shot.


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## Avatar4321

This is horrible. I pray that she will recover.

I just hope people dont start playing politics with this.


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## paperview

Oh God...just awful.


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## DiveCon

44 - Reports: Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords shot at public event

*Reports: Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords shot at public event*


_ By  		 			Felicia Sonmez 		 	 _
       	Arizona Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was shot on Saturday  morning while hosting an event outside a Tucson grocery store, according  to local news reports.
  National Public Radio reported Saturday that Giffords, who in November narrowly won reelection to a third term, was hosting her first "Congress on Your Corner" event when a gunman ran up and began shooting. 
  According to a local news report,  Giffords was shot in the head at point-blank range. She was taken to  University Medical Center in Tucscon; her condition was not immediately  known.


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## loosecannon

California Girl said:


> What kind of people do this sort of thing? It's sick. Seriously. My prayers are with her, and those who were hurt... and their families.



12 victims, it sounds like gangs or Mexican drug cartels.


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## goldcatt

What is wrong with some people? Like we don't have enough crazy in the world already.

Local news sites are all over the place on the facts but several are updating often from the scene.
Here are several local news home pages for updates:

Welcome to StarNet - Tucson, Arizona
KGUN9 On Your Side, Tucson News, Weather & Sports - KGUN 9 News - ABC KGUN-TV Tucson, Arizona, News & Weather - Home
KVOA.com | Tucson, Arizona Home
KOLD News 13 - News 13 KOLD-TV Home
KMSB Tucson

The Tuscon Citizen's site seems to be down. 

Support and good wishes to all affected.


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## Madeline

It doesn't matter what party she belonged to or what her POVs were.  She was duly elected....this is a shot aimed at democracy.

I hope she recovers.


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## Midnight Marauder

Horrible, horrible news.

Numbing pain grips my consciousness.


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## Avatar4321

Plasmaball said:


> loosecannon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of people do this sort of thing? It's sick. Seriously. My prayers are with her, and those who were hurt... and their families.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 12 victims, it sounds like gangs or Mexican drug cartels.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> based on?
Click to expand...


my guess is location location location


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## Kat

This is horrible. Have been watching as it unfolds.  for her, and the others.


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## DiveCon

they have the shooter in custody according to some reports


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## loosecannon

Avatar4321 said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loosecannon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 12 victims, it sounds like gangs or Mexican drug cartels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> based on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> my guess is location location location
Click to expand...


that and the fact that assassins seldom shoot 12 victims at once.


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## rightwinger

Horrible to hear...

I had hoped this country had moved past assasination as a way to handle political differences. I hope she and the others pull through


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## boedicca

RIP Gabby, and the others who died.

Very sad.

_Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and six others died after a gunman opened fire at a public event on Saturday, the Pima County, Ariz., sheriff's office confirms. The 40-year-old Democrat was outside a Tucson grocery store when a gunman ran up and began firing indiscriminately. The suspect was taken into police custody._

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/08/132764367/congresswoman-shot-in-arizona


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## Soggy in NOLA

She's dead?


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## loosecannon

rightwinger said:


> Horrible to hear...
> 
> I had hoped this country had moved past assasination as a way to handle political differences. I hope she and the others pull through



the shooter fired indiscriminantly into the crowd 

that doesn't sound like an assassination. More like a rampage or a cartel statement.


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## boedicca

NPR is reporting that she and six others are dead.


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## Modbert

Sad to hear she and others have died if the report is true. At least their killer has already been arrested.


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## DiveCon

Soggy in NOLA said:


> She's dead?


NPR is reporting that


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## Soggy in NOLA

boedicca said:


> NPR is reporting that she and six others are dead.



Wow.  I don't get it.. whatever the motivations....  what the fuck?


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## JakeStarkey

Soggy in NOLA said:


> Here's an idea..... _maybe it was just a nutter_ with no discernible ideology other than nuttiness.



Serving one's country and gets shot.  I pray that the nutter is not political in the sense of any party or cause, but who knows at this point.  The news is saying administration sources are saying it is very bad for Gifford.  Edit: she and six others dead?


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## Revere

Congresswoman, 6 Others, Killed By Gunman : NPR



> The suspect ran off and was tackled by a bystander. He was taken into custody. Witnesses described him as in his late teens or early 20s.


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## Kat

Reports that others have died as well.


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## LordBrownTrout

loosecannon said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Horrible to hear...
> 
> I had hoped this country had moved past assasination as a way to handle political differences. I hope she and the others pull through
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the shooter fired indiscriminantly into the crowd
> 
> that doesn't sound like an assassination. More like a rampage or a cartel statement.
Click to expand...


That's what is being reported on local news.


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## Avatar4321

rightwinger said:


> Horrible to hear...
> 
> I had hoped this country had moved past assasination as a way to handle political differences. I hope she and the others pull through



What kind of naive person do you have to be to actually believe this?

Human nature hasn't changed. There are still good people. There are still bad people. It hasnt changed for thousands of years, why would it stop now?


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## Big Fitz

Avatar4321 said:


> Sighs, does this really have to get all political before we have any idea what the motivations of the shooter were?


That's what I'm waiting on.  Who was this fuck that shot her?  regardless, they will probably be one radical fringe or another.  She either wasn't far enough left for them or right.

Just saw the news, she has been assassinated.


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## Avatar4321

Plasmaball said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> 
> based on?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my guess is location location location
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> even saying it was a mexican cartel is making it political.....abide by your own words...
Click to expand...


I havent said anything about why. I dont have a clue. Just telling you why people might conclude that.

Quite frankly, we dont have enough info to work with.


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## peach174

Our local news has said that 6 have died/ But now report yet as to how she is doing.


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## rightwinger

Horrible day for our country. I hear her husband is an astronaut and was supposed to captain the next shuttle mission


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## boedicca

According to the NPR article, the assassin is described by witnesses as a young man in his teens or early twenties.


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## Annie

boedicca said:


> RIP Gabby, and the others who died.
> 
> Very sad.
> 
> _Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and six others died after a gunman opened fire at a public event on Saturday, the Pima County, Ariz., sheriff's office confirms. The 40-year-old Democrat was outside a Tucson grocery store when a gunman ran up and began firing indiscriminately. The suspect was taken into police custody._
> 
> Congresswoman, 6 Others, Killed By Gunman : NPR



Unreal. If this is because of politics, I'm sorry, I hope the guy fries. Wrong, in any circumstances. 

The place for change is at ballot box, not guns. My prayers are with all the deceased and their families.


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## EriktheRed

She's dead.


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## mudwhistle

The report says she's dead now.

LINK


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## Avatar4321

Soggy in NOLA said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> NPR is reporting that she and six others are dead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  I don't get it.. whatever the motivations....  what the fuck?
Click to expand...


Could be anything. Heck, could be random.


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## boedicca

The overwhelming odds are this was done by a lone whackjob who is not a representative for anyone other than his own sick self.


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## Modbert

Sherry said:


> I'm not saying Modbert is one of them, but unfortunately there will be people "hoping" that the gunman has connections to the TPM.



Of course there will be. Just like there will be those hoping it's an illegal. Quite sickening indeed.


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## Silkcity19

Representative Giffords shot in Arizona, gunman held | General Headlines | Comcast.net

So sad.


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## rdean

According to CNN, 12 were shot, the congresswoman and six are dead.


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## Sarah G

Silkcity19 said:


> Representative Giffords shot in Arizona, gunman held | General Headlines | Comcast.net
> 
> So sad.



Is she alive?


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## peach174

Yes our local news just said that she is dead,along with 6 others.
I'm glad they caught the guy


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## Modbert

boedicca said:


> Doggie, the Bubble Mod:
> 
> You disingenuous little twerp.
> 
> You don't even have the guts to admit that your reference to a year old incident is an attempt to link this shooting with the TPM.



If I was going to say the Tea Party did it, I would say so. As of right now, we don't know and it would be wrong to conclude that it was one group. As Big Fitz said, she had many positions that she would be hated for, Healthcare being one of them. Immigration being another. 

I posted the article because it wasn't the first time she was attacked, something that is worth noting. It's not an everyday thing where a Congressman or Congresswoman gets attacked.

And even if it were a tea partier or illegal, it doesn't change anything. You don't see the vast majority of either committing acts of violence and incidents like these are not a reflection of the groups of which they claim to be or are apart of.


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## misteroboto

there is some irony that these people were killed in a place called "safeway"


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## Silkcity19

So sad seemed like a great women

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLAO-bn30LU[/ame]


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## boedicca

Indeed.   They are now reporting that one of the victims was a child.


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## rdean

Fox news reports that the gunman was also wounded and taken into custody and a child, age unknown, was killed.


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## Jackson

This is dreadful.  Prayers and condolences to the victims and their families.


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## cduebelhoer

Just saw CBS break in and pronounce her death.  Regardless of the reasons, thoughts with the family in this terrible time.


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## Sunni Man

Is Arizona a death penalty state?


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## peach174

Sunni Man said:


> Is Arizona a death penalty state?



Yes we are


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## DiveCon

now there are reports she hasnt died
and is in surgery


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## Wry Catcher

ABC reports the Congresswoman is alive and in surgery.  They admit conflicting reports.  They report the weapon was a shotgun.


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## Modbert

DiveCon said:


> now there are reports she hasnt died
> and is in surgery



Reports all over the place right now. I wouldn't expect to know what's really going on for a few more hours.


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## Sunni Man

peach174 said:


> Sunni Man said:
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> 
> 
> Is Arizona a death penalty state?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we are
Click to expand...

Good!!


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## boedicca

Hmmm...NPR changed their article to now say there are conflicting reports about her death.


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## peach174

That's what I say good.


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## DiveCon

Wry Catcher said:


> ABC reports the Congresswoman is alive and in surgery.  They admit conflicting reports.  They report the weapon was a shotgun.


how the HELL was someone able to get a shotgun past security


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## Kat

Modbert said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> now there are reports she hasnt died
> and is in surgery
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reports all over the place right now. I wouldn't expect to know what's really going on for a few more hours.
Click to expand...




And that is why none of us need to jump to conclusions.


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## Trajan

cnn reports shes has passed...RIP and the other victims as well.

???

According to a local news report, Giffords was shot in the head at point-blank range.

Last March, Giffords was one of 10 House Democrats who were the subject of harassment over their support for the national health care overhaul. At the time, the front door of Giffords' Tucson office had been shattered in an early morning incident.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2011/01/reports-arizona-rep-gabrielle.html?hpid=topnews


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## Modbert

Kat said:


> And that is why none of us need to jump to conclusions.



Of course. Jumping to conclusions is one thing, pointing out she has been attacked in the past is another. Personally, I hope she lives and is able to return to office with the would be killer and killer of others in jail for the rest of his life.


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## Article 15

omg


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## elvis

CNN says she's dead.


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## boedicca

Fox is reporting that Giffords is alive and in critical condition.


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## elvis

elvis said:


> CNN says she's dead.



on the tape at the bottom of the screen.


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## DiveCon

elvis said:


> CNN says she's dead.


MSNBC and FNC are both now saying she is in surgery and still alive


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## Dont Taz Me Bro

I had a feeling this would happen sooner or later.  The political strife has really been brewing in this country for the past decade.  Frankly, I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner.


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## DiveCon

elvis said:


> elvis said:
> 
> 
> 
> CNN says she's dead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on the tape at the bottom of the screen.
Click to expand...

lots of conflicting reports


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## Dont Taz Me Bro

DiveCon said:


> elvis said:
> 
> 
> 
> CNN says she's dead.
> 
> 
> 
> MSNBC and FNC are both now saying she is in surgery and still alive
Click to expand...


Typical incompetence by the media.


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## goldcatt

DiveCon said:


> elvis said:
> 
> 
> 
> CNN says she's dead.
> 
> 
> 
> MSNBC and FNC are both now saying she is in surgery and still alive
Click to expand...


Hopefully that's the case.

ALL of the victims are a tragedy.


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## Modbert

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> I had a feeling this would happen sooner or later.  The political strife has really been brewing in this country for the past decade.  Frankly, I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner.



One would figure it would boil over eventually. It's quite sad that it resulted in this.


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## USArmyRetired

She's not dead people.


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## peach174

Our local news is saying that they have conflicting reports about how she is. So not sure yet if she is dead or not.


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## boedicca

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elvis said:
> 
> 
> 
> CNN says she's dead.
> 
> 
> 
> MSNBC and FNC are both now saying she is in surgery and still alive
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Typical incompetence by the media.
Click to expand...



No it's not.   There is always confusion in the immediate aftermath of something like this.  It's not like the media is in the operating room.


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## California Girl

DiveCon said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because his statement is so much worse than what you've been saying.
> 
> When are you people going to grow up and wait for facts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but still, what he said was stupid
Click to expand...


I agree. No one who is already speculating about who and why is showing much intellect. Over-emotional, stupid rhetoric is unnecessary.


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## California Girl

boedicca said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> MSNBC and FNC are both now saying she is in surgery and still alive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical incompetence by the media.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No it's not.   There is always confusion in the immediate aftermath of something like this.  It's not like the media is in the operating room.
Click to expand...


Which is exactly why it is best to take any media reports as inaccurate - until we actually have confirmed, solid information.


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## elvis

my cousin says she was shot in the head?


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## DiveCon

boedicca said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> MSNBC and FNC are both now saying she is in surgery and still alive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical incompetence by the media.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No it's not.   There is always confusion in the immediate aftermath of something like this.  It's not like the media is in the operating room.
Click to expand...

um, that IS incompetence
they should only be reporting the confirmed FACTS
not making guesses and speculation


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## Modbert

elvis said:


> my cousin says she was shot in the head?



NPR also originally reported she was shot point blank in the head. That's why I said she would be lucky if she lived. Though being shot in the first place isn't so lucky I suppose.


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## Cecilie1200

California Girl said:


> What kind of people do this sort of thing? It's sick. Seriously. My prayers are with her, and those who were hurt... and their families.



From the sound of it, crazy people.  He apparently just ran up and started shooting indiscriminately.


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## (R)IGHTeous 1

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> I had a feeling this would happen sooner or later.  The political strife has really been brewing in this country for the past decade.  Frankly, I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner.



Agreed.  It hit the boiling point back in '08, I only see it gettin worse too.

SO WTF happened?  Is she alive or not?  The fuckin MSM needs to get it right, for once,


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## boedicca

DiveCon said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typical incompetence by the media.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it's not.   There is always confusion in the immediate aftermath of something like this.  It's not like the media is in the operating room.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> um, that IS incompetence
> they should only be reporting the confirmed FACTS
> not making guesses and speculation
Click to expand...




They aren't making it up.   Bret Baier just commented that they had three different government sources provide information she was dead before they reported it.


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## Modbert

DiveCon said:


> um, that IS incompetence
> they should only be reporting the confirmed FACTS
> not making guesses and speculation



The problem is the need to be the first to "break" the story or updates.


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## elvis

but they're saying she was shot in the head and in surgery.   

sounds really grave to me.


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## Cecilie1200

loosecannon said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of people do this sort of thing? It's sick. Seriously. My prayers are with her, and those who were hurt... and their families.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 12 victims, it sounds like gangs or Mexican drug cartels.
Click to expand...


Based on what?  The ability to throw a lot of bullets around wildly and hit people in a crowd?


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## Article 15

elvis said:


> my cousin says she was shot in the head?



ya


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## DiveCon

Modbert said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> um, that IS incompetence
> they should only be reporting the confirmed FACTS
> not making guesses and speculation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is the need to be the first to "break" the story or updates.
Click to expand...

thats the main problem

be first instead of being RIGHT


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## boedicca

Modbert said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> um, that IS incompetence
> they should only be reporting the confirmed FACTS
> not making guesses and speculation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is the need to be the first to "break" the story or updates.
Click to expand...


Oh puhleeze.

Just what on earth do you think are the objectives of the media?   One is to be the first to report breaking news.

If they didn't report quickly, you'd accuse them of withholding information.


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## Avatar4321

DiveCon said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because his statement is so much worse than what you've been saying.
> 
> When are you people going to grow up and wait for facts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but still, what he said was stupid
Click to expand...


Every statement made here about the cause is stupid because of the fact that we dont know anything yet. 

I don't care if your blaming the President or Governor Palin. It's stupid.


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## Modbert

boedicca said:


> Oh puhleeze.
> 
> Just what on earth do you think are the objectives of the media?   One is to be the first to report breaking news.



And here I thought the objectives of the media was suppose to be reporting the facts. That's my and their point. Which is why Dive and Taze are right where this is an example of the incompetence of the media.


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## rightwinger

Hope she pulls through

No politician should have to go through this shit regardless of their position. This is america


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## Modbert

Blaming Sarah Palin for the shooting is like blaming The Catcher in the Rye for the shooting of John Lennon. Plain stupidity.


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## DiveCon

boedicca said:


> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> um, that IS incompetence
> they should only be reporting the confirmed FACTS
> not making guesses and speculation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is the need to be the first to "break" the story or updates.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh puhleeze.
> 
> Just what on earth do you think are the objectives of the media?   One is to be the first to report breaking news.
> 
> If they didn't report quickly, you'd accuse them of withholding information.
Click to expand...

it should be to be sure you have the facts before you run a story


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## Kat

Modbert said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh puhleeze.
> 
> Just what on earth do you think are the objectives of the media?   One is to be the first to report breaking news.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here I thought the objectives of the media was suppose to be reporting the facts. That's my and their point. Which is why Dive and Taze are right where this is an example of the incompetence of the media.
Click to expand...




Same thing happened on 9/11. So nothing should have been reported that day???


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## Cecilie1200

mdn2000 said:


> Congressman Gifford was also pro-abortion. Lots of suspects there. Either way, something set the guy off, seems like he targeted her.



Or maybe she's just a US Congressmember who was making a public appearance, which makes this an easy and surefire (excuse the expression) way to get on the TV news.  Let's all remember that the late President Reagan was shot, not for his politics, but to impress a girl.


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## Revere

Modbert said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh puhleeze.
> 
> Just what on earth do you think are the objectives of the media?   One is to be the first to report breaking news.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here I thought the objectives of the media was suppose to be reporting the facts. That's my and their point. Which is why Dive and Taze are right where this is an example of the incompetence of the media.
Click to expand...


Shit happens after somebody comes in and shoots a dozen people.


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## Article 15

Guys come on ... this woman's friends and family are all finding out about this I'm sure some from the TV have some respect ... the media doesn't have to be up the surgeons butt the instant she is declared dead if that happens.


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## Modbert

Kat said:


> Same thing happened on 9/11. So nothing should have been reported that day???



There's a difference between reporting something and reporting it as a fact. Reporting she is dead when she very well may not be is terrible not only for the media but her family and friends.


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## boedicca

Fox's sources were:

A highly placed source on Capitol Hill
A Federal law enforcement official in AZ
A local AZ law enforcement official

You have an unrealistic expectation of how quickly the full facts of such a situation are determined.  If three government sources confirm something, it's reasonable to report it.


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## rdean

Fox now says she is in surgery and still alive.


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## Revere

Synthaholic said:


> Kat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I agree.  But at the same time, someone in Palin's position, with her level of hero-worship among a section of America, should not be posting a map of politicians to be targeted, with gun sights.
> 
> Do you agree with that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synth, THIS is not a thread about Palin...nor is it a thread about immigrants...as others have tried to bring in.
> 
> We don't even know if she is dead or alive, who did it, or why...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The hospital spokesman has said she is alive.  I trust them at this point to know the truth.
> 
> This is a political board, and this is most likely a political shooting.   I do not know why we should ignore what may be contributing factors when looking for clues to motive.  As I said in PM, this guy may never have seen that SarahPac chart, but I think it further highlights her irresponsibility in putting something like that out.
Click to expand...



It was a young man in his teens or 20s.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Soggy in NOLA said:


> Here's an idea..... _maybe it was just a nutter_ with no discernible ideology other than nuttiness.



But . . . but . . . that doesn't allow us to grind our favorite political axes and flog our favorite political dead horses!    We can't have THAT.


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

*REGARDLESS of whether or not she lives, THIS IS STILL AN ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE TRAGEDY.
*

I'm praying for her and her family no matter the outcome.  *SECURITY IS NEEDED FOR PUBLIC FIGURES SUCH AS OFFICE HOLDERS!*


----------



## Cecilie1200

loosecannon said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> 
> based on?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my guess is location location location
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> that and the fact that assassins seldom shoot 12 victims at once.
Click to expand...


Sure they do, if they don't really care who they hit or their aim really sucks.

Sounds to me like the guy just wanted attention.


----------



## boedicca

A spokeswoman for the hospital has confirmed that Gifford was shot in the head and is in critical condition.  There will be a formal briefing at 1:30 local time.


----------



## shintao

peach174 said:


> Just saw this on the news. Giffords has been shot along with 3 of her staff members, and now new repor thatt  their was 12 who have been shot.
> This is totally unaceptable just because you don't agree with someone on politics
> I did not agree with her politics but she is my representive and now SE AZ has no representation.
> I hope she will be alright.



She is dead according to the news.

Jan 8, 2011 ... Gabrielle Giffords, a Democratic congresswoman from Arizona, was reportedly shot and killed today at a public event outside a grocery store.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

boedicca said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> MSNBC and FNC are both now saying she is in surgery and still alive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical incompetence by the media.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No it's not.   There is always confusion in the immediate aftermath of something like this.  It's not like the media is in the operating room.
Click to expand...


They shouldn't be reporting her condition one way or the other until they have all the information.  It's irresponsible for one news organization to say she died and another to say she didn't.  They're more concerned about being the first news team to report it than they are about whether or not it's accurate.


----------



## chanel

Hospital rep on Fox News says she's in surgery right now. Press conference at 130 AZ time


----------



## boedicca

Kat said:


> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing happened on 9/11. So nothing should have been reported that day???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a difference between reporting something and reporting it as a fact. Reporting she is dead when she very well may not be is terrible not only for the media but her family and friends.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thus far I have not heard anything reported as FACT.
Click to expand...



The news media said that there were reports she was dead.   That's the extent of it - and then they corrected their news stories when the hospital contradicted those reports.


----------



## loosecannon

Wry Catcher said:


> ABC reports the Congresswoman is alive and in surgery.  They admit conflicting reports.  *They report the weapon was a shotgun*.



oh shit


----------



## Cecilie1200

Plasmaball said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> 
> based on?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my guess is location location location
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> even saying it was a mexican cartel is making it political.....abide by your own words...
Click to expand...


Avatar didn't say anything about cartels.  "Location" just means she was in a public place with a crowd, which makes her a convenient target.


----------



## Dr.Traveler

This is a true tragedy.  The shooter I almost certainly going to turn out to be a nutter.

God I hope he was a nutter.  Otherwise the fallout on this would be disastrous.


----------



## Cecilie1200

boedicca said:


> RIP Gabby, and the others who died.
> 
> Very sad.
> 
> _Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and six others died after a gunman opened fire at a public event on Saturday, the Pima County, Ariz., sheriff's office confirms. The 40-year-old Democrat was outside a Tucson grocery store when a gunman ran up and began firing indiscriminately. The suspect was taken into police custody._
> 
> Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords Shot By Gunman : NPR



NPR clearly isn't very reliable, since at the same time they were insisting Giffords and six others are dead, Sheriff Dupnik AND the hospital reported that she was alive, and gave totally different casualty numbers.


----------



## California Girl

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typical incompetence by the media.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it's not.   There is always confusion in the immediate aftermath of something like this.  It's not like the media is in the operating room.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They shouldn't be reporting her condition one way or the other until they have all the information.  It's irresponsible for one news organization to say she died and another to say she didn't.  They're more concerned about being the first news team to report it than they are about whether or not it's accurate.
Click to expand...


Accuracy in the media was sacrificed long ago. Now, it is just being first that matters. However, the media run with what they are told. Someone, somewhere confirmed her death before they should have. 

This is exactly why I always wait until we have definite information before I start forming any opinion or bother to speculate about it.


----------



## Sherry

Synthaholic said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I agree.  But at the same time, someone in Palin's position, with her level of hero-worship among a section of America, should not be posting a map of politicians to be targeted, with gun sights.
> 
> Do you agree with that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Only a lunatic would take that map out of context.* I know many of her detractors like to believe that her followers are loons, but reasonable people don't assume that map would trigger normal people to acts of violence. Again, people will not censor themselves for fear of how the mentally unstable might respond.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly.  And knowing that there are lunatics in this country, it's irresponsible to use that imagery.
Click to expand...


I stand by my last sentence.


----------



## boedicca

Cecilie1200 said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> RIP Gabby, and the others who died.
> 
> Very sad.
> 
> _Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and six others died after a gunman opened fire at a public event on Saturday, the Pima County, Ariz., sheriff's office confirms. The 40-year-old Democrat was outside a Tucson grocery store when a gunman ran up and began firing indiscriminately. The suspect was taken into police custody._
> 
> Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords Shot By Gunman : NPR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NPR clearly isn't very reliable, since at the same time they were insisting Giffords and six others are dead, Sheriff Dupnik AND the hospital reported that she was alive, and gave totally different casualty numbers.
Click to expand...



They corrected their article as the story developed.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Modbert said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> and you dont actually HAVE the facts to LOOK at
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, if you don't want to discuss the fact that she has been attacked before, be my guest. However, such background information helps paint a bigger picture than wallowing in ignorance like Whitehall was. An ignorant post you thanked him for.
Click to expand...


What in the hell are you talking about, attacked before?  Living in Giffords' district, I feel certain that such a thing would have been in my local news.


----------



## Article 15

Dr.Traveler said:


> This is a true tragedy.  The shooter I almost certainly going to turn out to be a nutter.
> 
> God I hope he was a nutter.  Otherwise the fallout on this would be disastrous.



We are going to find out ... they got him.


----------



## Ozmar

peach174 said:


> Just saw this on the news. Giffords has been shot along with 3 of her staff members, and now new repor thatt  their was 12 who have been shot.
> This is totally unaceptable just because you don't agree with someone on politics
> I did not agree with her politics but she is my representive and now SE AZ has no representation.
> I hope she will be alright.



People never cease to amaze me with their pettiness.


----------



## Cecilie1200

loosecannon said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Horrible to hear...
> 
> I had hoped this country had moved past assasination as a way to handle political differences. I hope she and the others pull through
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the shooter fired indiscriminantly into the crowd
> 
> that doesn't sound like an assassination. More like a rampage or a cartel statement.
Click to expand...


Neither gangs nor cartels run up on foot in the middle of a crowd and start shooting wildly.  Gangs typically do drive-by shootings, and a cartel, had it wanted to kill her at a public appearance, would have fired from long distance.


----------



## Midnight Marauder

Article 15 said:


> We are going to find out ... they got him.


They had Oswald too....


----------



## SFC Ollie

It is being reported that the Congresswoman is in surgery in critical condition. 

My heartfelt prayers go out to her and her family and to all others and families who were hurt.

I will withhold comment on the lower than slime asshole who did this.


----------



## Revere

Dr.Traveler said:


> This is a true tragedy.  The shooter I almost certainly going to turn out to be a nutter.
> 
> God I hope he was a nutter.  Otherwise the fallout on this would be disastrous.



You mean if he was involved in a drug cartel or illegal, it would cast drug cartels or illegals in a bad light?

Is that the sort of "fallout" you don't want?


----------



## loosecannon

Cecilie1200 said:


> loosecannon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Horrible to hear...
> 
> I had hoped this country had moved past assasination as a way to handle political differences. I hope she and the others pull through
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the shooter fired indiscriminantly into the crowd
> 
> that doesn't sound like an assassination. More like a rampage or a cartel statement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither gangs nor cartels run up on foot in the middle of a crowd and start shooting wildly.  Gangs typically do drive-by shootings, and a cartel, had it wanted to kill her at a public appearance, would have fired from long distance.
Click to expand...


would you stfu, attention whore? Not only are you posting nonsense you are a distraction.


----------



## elvis

Midnight Marauder said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We are going to find out ... they got him.
> 
> 
> 
> They had Oswald too....
Click to expand...


security will be better than in 1963.


----------



## Dr.House

Prayers for this woman and her family...

I hope she pulls through...


----------



## Midnight Marauder

This brings back WAY too many bad memories of when Bobby was shot, and Reagan was shot. I was alive when JFK was shot, but was just an infant. But I remember Bobby and Reagan's shootings very well.

The feeling is the same -- mind numbing pain.


----------



## Modbert

DiveCon said:


> no, she voted FOR obamacare



This is my point about posting the facts, otherwise you get inaccurate comments like the one you responded to. Others have tried to say she was pro-life as well.


----------



## Trajan

uh oh, possible second suspect..."possible"...


----------



## SFC Ollie

Possible second suspect..........................


----------



## Modbert

elvis said:


> security will be better than in 1963.



We can only hope so.


----------



## DiveCon

elvis said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We are going to find out ... they got him.
> 
> 
> 
> They had Oswald too....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> security will be better than in 1963.
Click to expand...

at least it BETTER be


----------



## SFC Ollie

5 dead


----------



## Bones

They sure are taking their sweet time identifying the suspect.


----------



## Modbert

Bones said:


> They sure are taking their sweet time identifying the suspect.



As soon as they do, you bet his entire life will be out in the news within hours.


----------



## DiveCon

SFC Ollie said:


> 5 dead


19 said to have been shot and yes, 5 confirmed to be dead, the congresswomen is not among the known dead


----------



## Kat

Bones said:


> They sure are taking their sweet time identifying the suspect.



We may not even learn that today..


----------



## loosecannon

sad, sad day for our nation


----------



## Modbert

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Been proven how?  We have no idea who the shooter was or why he did it.  Hell, we're even assuming it's a man!
> 
> Remember the guy who ran into the Discovery Channel's headquarters last year and took hostages threatening to kill them?  All the left wing blogs and Web sites and the kooks on this board were accusing the tea party of producing this guy and it turned out he was actually a far left environmental wacko who was a serious follower of Al Gore's bullshit.



The shooter has been arrested and it's a male I thought it was reported. A bystander tackled him. While his motivations may be unclear, his gender isn't I would think.


----------



## Montrovant

The lack of facts is disturbing, as per usual.  The media, in their rush to get the 'story', are too quick to post unconfirmed reports.  I've seen the congresswoman reported dead, then alive and in surgery moments later by the same outlet.

Hopefully there are as many survivors as possible, hopefully the person responsible has been caught, but I think it may be best to take anything reported at this point with a large grain of salt.  It may be some hours yet before we get reliable information.


----------



## SFC Ollie

It is now being reported that there may have been someone in the crowd who returned fire.


----------



## Yurt

Barring Info, Speculating On Motive Behind Giffords Shooting Helps No One

03:17 pm

January 8, 2011


by Ken Rudin

In this era of instant information and 24/7 Tweeting, it is understandable that news about today's shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) after an event in Tucson spread like wildfire.

What is also unsurprising, but regrettable, is that everyone is ascribing a motive for the shooting without any credible information.

The Internet and the Twitterworld have been filled with speculation on why she was shot: that she was too liberal and was shot by a Tea Party conservative.  Or that she was too moderate and shot by someone on the left.

All we know is that the shooter is under custody.  No statement has been released, no motive revealed.  Self-anointed "journalists" should keep such opinions to themselves until we know more.

Barring Info, Speculating On Motive Behind Giffords Shooting Helps No One : It's All Politics : NPR


----------



## SFC Ollie

Being reported that she is responsive.... That would be a good thing.


----------



## WillowTree

Fox is reporting that she has made it through surgery and is responding to command. I pray she makes it.


----------



## Synthaholic

DiveCon said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 5 dead
> 
> 
> 
> 19 said to have been shot and yes, 5 confirmed to be dead, the congresswomen is not among the known dead
Click to expand...


19?  

The reports of a shotgun are most likely accurate, then.


----------



## RadiomanATL

Sarah G said:


> Silkcity19 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Representative Giffords shot in Arizona, gunman held | General Headlines | Comcast.net
> 
> So sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is she alive?
Click to expand...


As of right now, news reports are saying she is in critical condition at the hospital after being shot in the head.

Initial reports had said that she was one of the fatalities, but that was incorrect.


----------



## Synthaholic

MSNBC reporting that a Federal judge was also shot and killed.


----------



## loosecannon

SFC Ollie said:


> It is now being reported that there may have been someone in the crowd who returned fire.



a security guy allegedly shot the perp but didn't kill him. It sounds like a bloody mess between a shotgun a crowd and crossfire.


----------



## chanel

Shep Smith said the guy was not shooting indiscriminately into the crowd. He was walking up to people and shooting them in the head.


----------



## westwall

So far it looks like one of her aides has died and she is in surgery.  Fortunately they caught the prick that did it.


----------



## Article 15

I'm outta here.

I'm going to indulge myself in hours of football and pretend this all didn't happen til Monday.


----------



## Kat

Article 15 said:


> I'm outta here.
> 
> I'm going to indulge myself in hours of football and pretend this all didn't happen til Monday.




I wish I could. Maybe later..


----------



## Mad Scientist

Synthaholic said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 5 dead
> 
> 
> 
> 19 said to have been shot and yes, 5 confirmed to be dead, the congresswomen is not among the known dead
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 19?
> 
> The reports of a shotgun are most likely accurate, then.
Click to expand...

What shotgun can carry *19 rounds*? My Remington 870 can only carry 6 (7 if I keep one in the chamber)


----------



## RadiomanATL

Mad Scientist said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 19 said to have been shot and yes, 5 confirmed to be dead, the congresswomen is not among the known dead
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 19?
> 
> The reports of a shotgun are most likely accurate, then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What shotgun carries *19 rounds*? My Remington 870 can only carry 6 (7 if I keep one in the chamber)
Click to expand...


If it's a shotgun, in a crowd, I think it's perfectly possible to hit two people with one round. Or even three people.

As gruesome as that sounds.


----------



## Modbert

This thread is currently being moderated with all of the political crap being moved out to a separate thread. Take it to the other thread otherwise.


----------



## DiveCon

RadiomanATL said:


> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 19?
> 
> The reports of a shotgun are most likely accurate, then.
> 
> 
> 
> What shotgun carries *19 rounds*? My Remington 870 can only carry 6 (7 if I keep one in the chamber)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If it's a shotgun, in a crowd, I think it's perfectly possible to hit two people with one round. Or even three people.
> 
> As gruesome as that sounds.
Click to expand...

and if it had a scatter nozzle, even more


----------



## SFC Ollie

Confirmed that Federal Judge John Roll was shot and killed.


----------



## gautama

What amazed the hell outa me is that I watched the news for ~ 1/2 of an hour. 

During *that* time, there wasn't  a single reporter mentioning the status of the perpetrator. 

This was the absolutely worst bit of reporting I think possible.

What kind of shitheads are they ????

Finally, getting fed up I go to USMB, and there I see Modbert's post that the assailant was in custody.

Didn't have time to check out the updates.....wife just told me about the NYTimes report that some courageous MD was involved etc.....

But that particular bit of reporting was at least strange in that particular omission regarding the perpetrator doncha think ?


----------



## Kat

SFC Ollie said:


> Confirmed that Federal Judge John Roll was shot and killed.


----------



## Trajan

Modbert said:


> This thread is currently being moderated with all of the political crap being moved out to a separate thread. Take it to the other thread otherwise.



I am sorry,  I didn't see your message, I apologize.


----------



## chanel

One of the dead was a federal judge - John Roll.  They are speculating it was an automatic weapon - illegal in AZ.


----------



## Synthaholic

Mad Scientist said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 19 said to have been shot and yes, 5 confirmed to be dead, the congresswomen is not among the known dead
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 19?
> 
> The reports of a shotgun are most likely accurate, then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What shotgun can carry *19 rounds*? My Remington 870 can only carry 6 (7 if I keep one in the chamber)
Click to expand...

I was thinking of sawed off, or buckshot.  But in reporting the judges death, they are saying a Glock was used.


----------



## loosecannon

Mad Scientist said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 19 said to have been shot and yes, 5 confirmed to be dead, the congresswomen is not among the known dead
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 19?
> 
> The reports of a shotgun are most likely accurate, then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What shotgun can carry *19 rounds*? My Remington 870 can only carry 6 (7 if I keep one in the chamber)
Click to expand...


you don't need 19 rounds to strike 19 people with a shotgun, but some new sources are reporting he wielded a glok.


----------



## RadiomanATL

*unsubscribe*

No use speculating. And I'm sure the finger pointing will begin soon enough.


----------



## elvis

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well....if she wasn't for 2nd Amendment rights, she sure as hell has good reason to be now.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More....."Second amendment solutions" ???????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If that psycho freak show knew she was packing, he would've been alot less likely to try and shoot her.
> 
> Common sense and logic, try it sometime......
Click to expand...


Y'all can stop politicizing the tragedy in this thread.  create a new thread or your posts will be moved or trashed.  thanks.  ~elvis.


----------



## DiveCon

RadiomanATL said:


> *unsubscribe*
> 
> No use speculating. And I'm sure the finger pointing will begin soon enough.


already has, by some


----------



## Kat

gautama said:


> What amazed the hell outa me is that I watched the news for ~ 1/2 of an hour.
> 
> During *that* time, there wasn't  a single reporter mentioning the status of the perpetrator.
> 
> This was the absolutely worst bit of reporting I think possible.
> 
> What kind of shitheads are they ????
> 
> Finally, getting fed up I go to USMB, and there I see Modbert's post that the assailant was in custody.
> 
> Didn't have time to check out the updates.....wife just told me about the NYTimes report that some courageous MD was involved etc.....
> 
> But that particular bit of reporting was at least strange in that particular omission regarding the perpetrator doncha think ?




hmmm I heard right away that they had the gunman in custody.


----------



## Sunni Man

Maybe the shooter was after the Judge and not the Congress woman.


----------



## WillowTree

FBI and ICE on scene according to FOX.


----------



## Synthaholic

MSNBC reporting she is expected to pull through.


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

elvis said:


> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> More....."Second amendment solutions" ???????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that psycho freak show knew she was packing, he would've been alot less likely to try and shoot her.
> 
> Common sense and logic, try it sometime......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Y'all can stop politicizing the tragedy in this thread.  create a new thread or your posts will be moved or trashed.  thanks.  ~elvis.
Click to expand...


My bad.....


----------



## Kat

Shooter - 22 yr old white male..confirmed...

News conference on now..


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

WillowTree said:


> FBI and ICE on scene according to FOX.



As they should've been even *before* this happened.


----------



## SFC Ollie

All we know about the shooter is he is 22 white male.


----------



## Synthaholic

Jared Laughner is the shooter.


----------



## SFC Ollie

Identified?


----------



## DiveCon

AP claims they have the shooters name, but are not at liberty to relese it

reported by Shep Smith


----------



## Synthaholic

SFC Ollie said:


> Identified?


Yes - MSNBC.


----------



## SFC Ollie

WASHINGTON  AP sources: Gunman in Arizona lawmaker's shooting identified as Jared Laughner


----------



## DiveCon

Jared Laughner


----------



## bodecea

This makes me want to throw up.


----------



## Modbert

Shot with a pistol that had an extended magazine. Coward shot her from behind it seems.


----------



## SFC Ollie

Head of the Hospital says he is very optimistic about the Congresswoman's recovery.


----------



## DiveCon

the doctor at the hospital says only 1 dead at that hospital
and that was the child


----------



## Cecilie1200

Annie said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> RIP Gabby, and the others who died.
> 
> Very sad.
> 
> _Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and six others died after a gunman opened fire at a public event on Saturday, the Pima County, Ariz., sheriff's office confirms. The 40-year-old Democrat was outside a Tucson grocery store when a gunman ran up and began firing indiscriminately. The suspect was taken into police custody._
> 
> Congresswoman, 6 Others, Killed By Gunman : NPR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unreal. If this is because of politics, I'm sorry, I hope the guy fries. Wrong, in any circumstances.
> 
> The place for change is at ballot box, not guns. My prayers are with all the deceased and their families.
Click to expand...


Honestly, no matter WHAT it's about, I hope they throw the book at him.  Murder and attempted murder just don't ever get more right for any reason.


----------



## SFC Ollie

9 year old girl dead? Did i hear that right?


----------



## peach174

Surgeon says she has a good chance of pulling thru her operation.
Sad news is that a small child has died


----------



## rdean

9 year old child died.


----------



## SFC Ollie

Take the asshole out and turn him over to the families.


----------



## Kat

SFC Ollie said:


> 9 year old girl dead? Did i hear that right?



Yes.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Modbert said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm worried about the government response more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt you'll see Congressmen and Congresswomen going to campaign stops without extra security for awhile now at the very least. I doubt any sort of laws will be passed on a larger scale.
Click to expand...


What kind of laws could you pass?  "It is henceforth illegal to shoot Congressmembers"?  I think we already have that one.  Hell, I'm pretty sure this is even a federal crime, because she's a federal employee who was shot while carrying out her job as a federal employee, much the same as that postal worker who was shot while delivering mail a couple years back.


----------



## California Girl

DiveCon said:


> AP claims they have the shooters name, but are not at liberty to relese it
> 
> reported by Shep Smith



Now, this is where things get interesting. The media who are withholding the name are correct.


----------



## Kat

California Girl said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> AP claims they have the shooters name, but are not at liberty to relese it
> 
> reported by Shep Smith
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, this is where things get interesting. The media who are withholding the name are correct.
Click to expand...



He released it since Dive wrote that.


----------



## DiveCon

California Girl said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> AP claims they have the shooters name, but are not at liberty to relese it
> 
> reported by Shep Smith
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, this is where things get interesting. The media who are withholding the name are correct.
Click to expand...

not anymore
they all released it already


----------



## rightwinger

SFC Ollie said:


> 9 year old girl dead? Did i hear that right?



Horrible....just horrible


----------



## SFC Ollie

rightwinger said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 9 year old girl dead? Did i hear that right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Horrible....just horrible
Click to expand...


That really doesn't even come close to describing this.


----------



## rdean

I went looking for his Facebook page, but it looks like they already took it down.


----------



## DiveCon

rdean said:


> I went looking for his Facebook page, but it looks like they already took it down.


he may not have had one


----------



## William Joyce

She was a Democrat, but a very moderate one who was tough on border security:  she wanted the National Guard there.  But she opposed AZ's immigration law.  She's not bad on gun rights and has a military husband...  very attractive woman.  Just not a polarizing figure like Tom Tancredo or Nancy Pelosi.

Hard to speculate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09giffords.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

If he really is an Afgan. war vet.  He has stained his uniform beyond words and repair.

What a POS.


----------



## rdean

DiveCon said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> I went looking for his Facebook page, but it looks like they already took it down.
> 
> 
> 
> he may not have had one
Click to expand...


Another site posted a link and when I went it was already gone.


----------



## American Horse

Dr.Traveler said:


> This is a true tragedy.  The shooter I almost certainly going to turn out to be a nutter.
> 
> God I hope he was a nutter.  Otherwise the fallout on this would be disastrous.



In any case . . .  it was a nutter.


----------



## WillowTree

One child and one Federal Judge among the deceased.


----------



## rdean

Second person arrested.


----------



## Cecilie1200

rdean said:


> According to CNN, 12 were shot, the congresswoman and six are dead.



For the record, the latest update from the local Tucson news station (I know it's not as good as the Huffington Post, but what can you do?  ) says that she's still alive.  She's out of surgery, and her doctors are optimistic.

"Dr. Peter Rhee of University of Medical center told reporters at 2:00 PM Saturday morning that ten patients have been brought to the hospital.  Of those, one is dead, five are in surgery and the rest are in recovery.   The five in surgery are in critical condition.

Tucson Police Chief Roberto Villaseñor confirmed at the same press conference that one suspect is in custody.

Dr. Rhee said the deceased victim was a child, but did not release the victim's identity."

Just in: Rep. Gabrielle Giffords is alive, in surgery - KGUN9 On Your Side, Tucson News, Weather & Sports


----------



## SFC Ollie

2nd person arrested?


----------



## Kat

rdean said:


> Second person arrested.





That is being reported - but not confirmed..


----------



## Cecilie1200

peach174 said:


> Yes our local news just said that she is dead,along with 6 others.
> I'm glad they caught the guy



What the hell local news are YOU listening to?


----------



## Modbert

Ok guys, I just moved 119 posts that involved any politicizing or response to politicizing from this thread including some of my own posts. Let's keep this thread free of that going forward, shall we?


----------



## WillowTree

Cecilie1200 said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to CNN, 12 were shot, the congresswoman and six are dead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the record, the latest update from the local Tucson news station (I know it's not as good as the Huffington Post, but what can you do?  ) says that she's still alive.  She's out of surgery, and her doctors are optimistic.
> 
> "Dr. Peter Rhee of University of Medical center told reporters at 2:00 PM Saturday morning that ten patients have been brought to the hospital.  Of those, one is dead, five are in surgery and the rest are in recovery.   The five in surgery are in critical condition.
> 
> Tucson Police Chief Roberto Villaseñor confirmed at the same press conference that one suspect is in custody.
> 
> *Dr. Rhee said the deceased victim was a child*, but did not release the victim's identity."
> 
> Just in: Rep. Gabrielle Giffords is alive, in surgery - KGUN9 On Your Side, Tucson News, Weather & Sports
Click to expand...


Judge Roll is dead also. Fox said that was confirmed.


----------



## Annie

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> FBI and ICE on scene according to FOX.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As they should've been even *before* this happened.
Click to expand...


LOL! Right, like the Secret Service should have had Oswald under wraps and JFK would still be alive.


----------



## Foxfyre

Numerous prayer groups already going here for the victims and their loved ones.  My own are joined with theirs.

I suppose the world will always have crazies who will commit such terrible acts and they are all equally dispicable no matter who is harmed.  This one is especially painful to me because I admired Rep. Giffords a great deal.  I didn't "know" the others injured or killed.  Rep. Giffords has been described as a conservative blue dog Democrat who narrowly beat out a conservative Republican opponent in the last election.  She held no views so extreme as to provoke rage or contempt from normal people.

I hope the shooter was nuts so this won't be politicized.  The victims need to be cared for because of who they are.


----------



## California Girl

Modbert said:


> Ok guys, I just moved 119 posts that involved any politicizing or response to politicizing from this thread including some of my own posts. Let's keep this thread free of that going forward, shall we?



Tough times for the Mods.


----------



## Annie

Modbert said:


> Ok guys, I just moved 119 posts that involved any politicizing or response to politicizing from this thread including some of my own posts. Let's keep this thread free of that going forward, shall we?



Ok, sorry for the work. You moved them to where?


----------



## Trajan

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> If he really is an Afgan. war vet.  He has stained is uniform beyond words and repair.
> 
> What a POS.



Lee Harvey did that already.


----------



## elvis

Annie said:


> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok guys, I just moved 119 posts that involved any politicizing or response to politicizing from this thread including some of my own posts. Let's keep this thread free of that going forward, shall we?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, sorry for the work. You moved them to where?
Click to expand...


http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-romper-room/149596-politicizing-a-tragedy.html


----------



## Modbert

Annie said:


> Ok, sorry for the work. You moved them to where?



The thread that was made by another moderator in The Romper Room.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-romper-room/149596-politicizing-a-tragedy.html


----------



## Cecilie1200

WillowTree said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to CNN, 12 were shot, the congresswoman and six are dead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the record, the latest update from the local Tucson news station (I know it's not as good as the Huffington Post, but what can you do?  ) says that she's still alive.  She's out of surgery, and her doctors are optimistic.
> 
> "Dr. Peter Rhee of University of Medical center told reporters at 2:00 PM Saturday morning that ten patients have been brought to the hospital.  Of those, one is dead, five are in surgery and the rest are in recovery.   The five in surgery are in critical condition.
> 
> Tucson Police Chief Roberto Villaseñor confirmed at the same press conference that one suspect is in custody.
> 
> *Dr. Rhee said the deceased victim was a child*, but did not release the victim's identity."
> 
> Just in: Rep. Gabrielle Giffords is alive, in surgery - KGUN9 On Your Side, Tucson News, Weather & Sports
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Judge Roll is dead also. Fox said that was confirmed.
Click to expand...


I'm sticking with the streaming updates from my local news, rather than any of the nationals, since I'm in Tucson and trust them more.  The nationals have already "confirmed" any number of things that turned out to be wrong.


----------



## WillowTree

Cecilie1200 said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the record, the latest update from the local Tucson news station (I know it's not as good as the Huffington Post, but what can you do?  ) says that she's still alive.  She's out of surgery, and her doctors are optimistic.
> 
> "Dr. Peter Rhee of University of Medical center told reporters at 2:00 PM Saturday morning that ten patients have been brought to the hospital.  Of those, one is dead, five are in surgery and the rest are in recovery.   The five in surgery are in critical condition.
> 
> Tucson Police Chief Roberto Villaseñor confirmed at the same press conference that one suspect is in custody.
> 
> *Dr. Rhee said the deceased victim was a child*, but did not release the victim's identity."
> 
> Just in: Rep. Gabrielle Giffords is alive, in surgery - KGUN9 On Your Side, Tucson News, Weather & Sports
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Judge Roll is dead also. Fox said that was confirmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm sticking with the streaming updates from my local news, rather than any of the nationals, since I'm in Tucson and trust them more.  The nationals have already "confirmed" any number of things that turned out to be wrong.
Click to expand...


Okay!


----------



## American Horse

The surgeon at a Tucson hospital that received 10 shooting victims today said that one of those victims has died and that the victim is a "small child."

The surgeon said that of the 10 victims at the hospital, five were in critical condition, including Ms. Giffords. The other four were in stable condition.

Five are in surgery, he said.

THE CAUCUS - LIVE BLOG


----------



## Cecilie1200

The doctor at UMC reported that the wound was in the head, that it was "through-and-through", and refuses to say any more in order to not jeopardize the police department's investigation.

Ten patients, one dead, five in surgery, most recent report from the news conference that was just held.  We're interviewing some of the City Council members in attendance.


----------



## peach174

That's what I am doing  too, watching the local tucson news.


----------



## rdean

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10#p/a/f/0/3L1lsLU-kUw

Apparently he had a Youtube page


----------



## California Girl

Trajan said:


> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If he really is an Afgan. war vet.  He has stained is uniform beyond words and repair.
> 
> What a POS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Harvey did that already.
Click to expand...


No. No one damages the uniform beyond repair. Those who wear that uniform fight and die for us every fucking day... they fight while we shop. No one - not this guy, not Oswald, not Manning, damage their uniform... they only stain their own. Our military remain the very best of us.


----------



## Modbert

Cecilie1200 said:


> What kind of laws could you pass?  "It is henceforth illegal to shoot Congressmembers"?  I think we already have that one.  Hell, I'm pretty sure this is even a federal crime, because she's a federal employee who was shot while carrying out her job as a federal employee, much the same as that postal worker who was shot while delivering mail a couple years back.



It is in fact a federal crime and the Federal Government has jurisdiction here because of the shooting of the Congresswoman and judge.


----------



## Cecilie1200

peach174 said:


> That's what I am doing  too, watching the local tucson news.



Which one, because you've been reporting some stuff mine never said?


----------



## Cecilie1200

City Councilmember just said the District Judge thing is still an unconfirmed rumor, and it appears he's actually a personal friend of Giffords'.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

Jared Loughner has a YouTube page.  The guy is certifiably nuts.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/congress/149602-think-i-found-jared-loughner.html


----------



## Modbert

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Jared Loughner has a YouTube page.  The guy is certifiably nuts.
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/congress/149602-think-i-found-jared-loughner.html



He also has a myspace page.


----------



## rdean

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Jared Loughner has a YouTube page.  The guy is certifiably nuts.
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/congress/149602-think-i-found-jared-loughner.html



http://www.usmessageboard.com/congr...-giffords-shot-in-arizona-16.html#post3178789


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

Modbert said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jared Loughner has a YouTube page.  The guy is certifiably nuts.
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/congress/149602-think-i-found-jared-loughner.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He also has a myspace page.
Click to expand...


Yeah, but it looks like MySpace has shut it down already.


----------



## Cecilie1200

May I say that I am VERY proud of my fellow Tucsonans who were present and tackled and held this guy for the cops?  I hope to see these wonderful citizens getting awards for their courage and fast thinking.


----------



## JakeStarkey

"Police arrest man near Thornydale and Magee Roads who is suspected of being connected to the shooting of Giffords and others. A third man is being sought."  _Tucson Citizen_


----------



## RadiomanATL

Modbert said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jared Loughner has a YouTube page.  The guy is certifiably nuts.
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/congress/149602-think-i-found-jared-loughner.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He also has a* myspace *page.
Click to expand...



Well that seals it.

He's nuts.



(I couldn't help commenting again. Sue me  )


----------



## California Girl

RadiomanATL said:


> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jared Loughner has a YouTube page.  The guy is certifiably nuts.
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/congress/149602-think-i-found-jared-loughner.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He also has a* myspace *page.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well that seals it.
> 
> He's nuts.
> 
> 
> 
> (I couldn't help commenting again. Sue me  )
Click to expand...


You'll be hearing from my lawyer.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

Loughner is an anarchist.  He goes on and on about mind control in his videos and how the people in District 8 can't speak English right or something.  He doesn't really make sense.


----------



## RadiomanATL

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Loughner is an anarchist.  He goes on and on about mind control in his videos and how the people in District 8 can't speak English right or something.  He doesn't really make sense.



And he still uses MySpace


----------



## Cecilie1200

U of A-Stanford game has been postponed until tomorrow out of respect for the victims.


----------



## Midnight Marauder

AP verifies, this is the shooter's YouTube page:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10


----------



## DiveCon

Midnight Marauder said:


> AP verifies, this is the shooter's YouTube page:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10


is there any confirmation that this guy either was or was not a vet?


----------



## Midnight Marauder

DiveCon said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> AP verifies, this is the shooter's YouTube page:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10
> 
> 
> 
> is there any confirmation that this guy either was or was not a vet?
Click to expand...

Not that I have seen yet, still studying.

He lists such favorite books as Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto though.


----------



## BenNatuf

The guy is a scizo.  Doesn;t seem to be politically anything.  favorite books include the communist manifesto, Mein Kampf, the republic and evidently from his comments on the constitution he's not much for comprehension.  His ramblings on youtube are disjointed crap that only he could possibly make any sense of.


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

California Girl said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If he really is an Afgan. war vet.  He has stained is uniform beyond words and repair.
> 
> What a POS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Harvey did that already.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No. No one damages the uniform beyond repair. Those who wear that uniform fight and die for us every fucking day... they fight while we shop. No one - not this guy, not Oswald, not Manning, damage their uniform... they only stain their own. Our military remain the very best of us.
Click to expand...


You need to sober up.

*You just said that "no one damages their uniform" THEN SAID "they only stain their own"  Stain is obvious damage, unless you think it's actually SOMETHING GOOD?*

This dude HAS INDEED stained, damaged his uniform beyond repair.  He's an evil lil POS, and deserves to be executed.

Shame on you.


----------



## DiveCon

Midnight Marauder said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> AP verifies, this is the shooter's YouTube page:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10
> 
> 
> 
> is there any confirmation that this guy either was or was not a vet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not that I have seen yet, still studying.
> 
> He lists such favorite books as Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto though.
Click to expand...

yeah, and the stuff on his youtube channel is talking about mindcontrol and brainwashing


----------



## DiveCon

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Harvey did that already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. No one damages the uniform beyond repair. Those who wear that uniform fight and die for us every fucking day... they fight while we shop. No one - not this guy, not Oswald, not Manning, damage their uniform... they only stain their own. Our military remain the very best of us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to sober up.
> 
> *You just said that "no one damages their uniform" THEN SAID "they only stain their own"  Stain is obvious damage, unless you think it's actually SOMETHING GOOD?*
> 
> This dude HAS INDEED stained, damaged his uniform beyond repair.  He's an evil lil POS, and deserves to be executed.
> 
> Shame on you.
Click to expand...

we dont even know for sure he IS a vet


----------



## theDoctorisIn

Sad day.


----------



## Midnight Marauder

DiveCon said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> is there any confirmation that this guy either was or was not a vet?
> 
> 
> 
> Not that I have seen yet, still studying.
> 
> He lists such favorite books as Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yeah, and the stuff on his youtube channel is talking about mindcontrol and brainwashing
Click to expand...

It appears to me, with everything there fairly recent and everything written in the past tense about himself, he wasn't planning on surviving his actions today.


----------



## theDoctorisIn

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Harvey did that already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. No one damages the uniform beyond repair. Those who wear that uniform fight and die for us every fucking day... they fight while we shop. No one - not this guy, not Oswald, not Manning, damage their uniform... they only stain their own. Our military remain the very best of us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to sober up.
> 
> *You just said that "no one damages their uniform" THEN SAID "they only stain their own"  Stain is obvious damage, unless you think it's actually SOMETHING GOOD?*
> 
> This dude HAS INDEED stained, damaged his uniform beyond repair.  He's an evil lil POS, and deserves to be executed.
> 
> Shame on you.
Click to expand...


No, she said that "no one damages *THE *uniform beyond repair". He didn't stain THE uniform. 

CG's point (I think) was that this has nothing to do with the rest of the military - he only stained HIS OWN uniform, not THE uniform in general.


----------



## Cecilie1200

BenNatuf said:


> The guy is a scizo.  Doesn;t seem to be politically anything.  favorite books include the communist manifesto, Mein Kampf, the republic and evidently from his comments on the constitution he's not much for comprehension.  His ramblings on youtube are disjointed crap that only he could possibly make any sense of.



Well, in all fairness, you could say that about MOST things on YouTube.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Kgun 9 seems to think that Judge Roll might have been the primary target.

Reporter just asked this woman from the Bar Association (I believe) what she would say if she could talk to Judge Roll before the shooting, and I'm thinking, "Don't go to Safeway today, Judge!"  Duhhh.


----------



## Midnight Marauder

Picture of the shooter:


----------



## loosecannon

Jarod Loughner is the shooters name.


----------



## Foxfyre

DiveCon said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> AP verifies, this is the shooter's YouTube page:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10
> 
> 
> 
> is there any confirmation that this guy either was or was not a vet?
Click to expand...


There was one Youtube video captioned something like "My last day in a terrorist country" in which a bizarrely dressed person burned the American flag.  So metaphorical?  Or related to Afghanistan?  You can't tell from the video.


----------



## JBeukema

Avatar4321 said:


> This is horrible. I pray that she will recover.
> 
> I just hope people dont start playing politics with this.


I highly doubt politics weren't already part of it


----------



## Midnight Marauder

Foxfyre said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> AP verifies, this is the shooter's YouTube page:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10
> 
> 
> 
> is there any confirmation that this guy either was or was not a vet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was one Youtube video captioned something like "My last day in a terrorist country" in which a bizarrely dressed person burned the American flag.  So metaphorical?  Or related to Afghanistan?  You can't tell from the video.
Click to expand...

That wasn't his video, it's one he favorited.

In the text of one of his videos, he says he is "a army recruit at MEPS."


----------



## Toro

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Loughner is an anarchist.  He goes on and on about mind control in his videos and how the people in District 8 can't speak English right or something.  He doesn't really make sense.



He also talks about an imminent imposition of a new currency that he knew about but others didn't.

The guy was nuts.


----------



## Modbert

Toro said:


> He also talks about an imminent imposition of a new currency that he knew about but others didn't.
> 
> The guy was nuts.



He sure was.


----------



## RadiomanATL

Toro said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Loughner is an anarchist.  He goes on and on about mind control in his videos and how the people in District 8 can't speak English right or something.  He doesn't really make sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He also talks about an imminent imposition of a new currency that he knew about but others didn't.
> 
> The guy was nuts.
Click to expand...


As proven by the fact he had a myspace page


----------



## manu1959

Modbert said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> He also talks about an imminent imposition of a new currency that he knew about but others didn't.
> 
> The guy was nuts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He sure was.
Click to expand...


looks like insanity defense......all teed up and ready to go....


----------



## loosecannon

Toro said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Loughner is an anarchist.  He goes on and on about mind control in his videos and how the people in District 8 can't speak English right or something.  He doesn't really make sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He also talks about an imminent imposition of a new currency that he knew about but others didn't.
> 
> The guy was nuts.
Click to expand...


he's probably referring to the Amero


----------



## California Girl

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Harvey did that already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. No one damages the uniform beyond repair. Those who wear that uniform fight and die for us every fucking day... they fight while we shop. No one - not this guy, not Oswald, not Manning, damage their uniform... they only stain their own. Our military remain the very best of us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to sober up.
> 
> *You just said that "no one damages their uniform" THEN SAID "they only stain their own"  Stain is obvious damage, unless you think it's actually SOMETHING GOOD?*
> 
> This dude HAS INDEED stained, damaged his uniform beyond repair.  He's an evil lil POS, and deserves to be executed.
> 
> Shame on you.
Click to expand...


Fucking idiot. I mean (and anyone with an IQ over room temperature understood it) that they damage only themselves... not the uniform or those who wear it honorably.


----------



## Misty

Jared lee loughner burns flags. 

"If there's no flag in the constitution then the flag in the film is unknown. 
There's no flag in the constitution. 
Therefore, the flag in the film is unknown. 
Burn every new and old flag that you see. 
Burn your flag! 
I bet you can imagine this in your mind with a faster speed."


http://webkit.dailykos.com/stories/2011/1/8/161324/9858.html


 He had issues.


----------



## Revere

Let's just generalize about guys named Jared.


----------



## elvis

NYcarbineer said:


> USArmyRetired said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it was to take the heat off the birth certificate issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's nice.  Are you reacting to (R)ighteous having stolen your crown as resident village idiot?
Click to expand...


No.  he's competing for yours.  The things you said in wake of this tragedy rival USAR.


----------



## Revere

Londoner said:


> On this message board, you can speculate all you want about Obama.
> 
> You can speculate that Obama is a Muslim who is creating death panels.
> 
> If you speculate about the Right, you will not survive.
> 
> My posts, and I fear my participation, is being deleted.
> 
> I only meant to ask this:
> 
> If you tell people that Obama's policies might lead to the government putting your down syndrome child in front of a death panel, than some of those people might take action. If you put Congresswomen on a "Target Map", than there is at least a chance that an unstable patriot might take action.



No, you're full of shit.


----------



## California Girl

William Joyce said:


> She was a Democrat, but a very moderate one who was tough on border security:  she wanted the National Guard there.  But she opposed AZ's immigration law.  She's not bad on gun rights and has a military husband...  very attractive woman.  Just not a polarizing figure like Tom Tancredo or Nancy Pelosi.
> 
> Hard to speculate.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09giffords.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp



Has she changed her party affiliation since being shot? I believe she still is a Democrat.


----------



## William Joyce

Had both "The Communist Manifesto" and "Mein Kampf" on reading list...

Nutter.


----------



## BenNatuf

Cecilie1200 said:


> Kgun 9 seems to think that Judge Roll might have been the primary target.
> 
> Reporter just asked this woman from the Bar Association (I believe) what she would say if she could talk to Judge Roll before the shooting, and I'm thinking, "Don't go to Safeway today, Judge!"  Duhhh.


I'm not sure this nutcase had a primary target.  From what I've gathered he's some kind of whacko conspiracy nutter of the type you hear on coast to coast who thinks a college education, the flag and currency is unconstitutional, may have been escorted out od a college class for disruption and think police are unconstitutional, is an anarchistic athiest who's favorite book include mien kampf, the communist mannifesto, and the republic and enjoys "conciience dreaming" which he learned apparently in one of those unconstitutional college classes where he was being mind controlled through grammar and religion.


fucking whako


----------



## William Joyce

Wait... I have both those books.


----------



## jillian

DiveCon said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> is there any confirmation that this guy either was or was not a vet?
> 
> 
> 
> Not that I have seen yet, still studying.
> 
> He lists such favorite books as Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yeah, and the stuff on his youtube channel is talking about mindcontrol and brainwashing
Click to expand...


You haven't seen things like that from people on this board?


----------



## RadiomanATL

jillian said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not that I have seen yet, still studying.
> 
> He lists such favorite books as Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto though.
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, and the stuff on his youtube channel is talking about mindcontrol and brainwashing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You haven't seen things like that from people on this board?
Click to expand...


SHHHH!!!!!

You'll let them know my master plan....


----------



## Revere

It's CONSCIOUS dreaming, not CONSCIENCE DREAMING.  They guy isn't even literate enough to be conspiratorial.


----------



## DiveCon

jillian said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not that I have seen yet, still studying.
> 
> He lists such favorite books as Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto though.
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, and the stuff on his youtube channel is talking about mindcontrol and brainwashing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You haven't seen things like that from people on this board?
Click to expand...

yes, i have
but not who you might think


----------



## Mad Scientist

Revere said:


> It's CONSCIOUS dreaming, not CONSCIENCE DREAMING.  They guy isn't even literate enough to be conspiratorial.


The guy writes in such a strange manner too. It's like he combines Haiku with computer programming "if-then-else" statements.


----------



## Revere

Mad Scientist said:


> Revere said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's CONSCIOUS dreaming, not CONSCIENCE DREAMING.  They guy isn't even literate enough to be conspiratorial.
> 
> 
> 
> The guy writes in such a strange manner too. It's like he combines Haiku with computer programming "if-then-else" statements.
Click to expand...


I noticed that, too.   He mixes tense, number, voice.  Charlie Manson puts together a better sentence.


----------



## SFC Ollie

I looked at his writing as setting up a fake insanity case. He overdid the stupidity.


----------



## California Girl

theDoctorisIn said:


> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> No. No one damages the uniform beyond repair. Those who wear that uniform fight and die for us every fucking day... they fight while we shop. No one - not this guy, not Oswald, not Manning, damage their uniform... they only stain their own. Our military remain the very best of us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to sober up.
> 
> *You just said that "no one damages their uniform" THEN SAID "they only stain their own"  Stain is obvious damage, unless you think it's actually SOMETHING GOOD?*
> 
> This dude HAS INDEED stained, damaged his uniform beyond repair.  He's an evil lil POS, and deserves to be executed.
> 
> Shame on you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, she said that "no one damages *THE *uniform beyond repair". He didn't stain THE uniform.
> 
> CG's point (I think) was that this has nothing to do with the rest of the military - he only stained HIS OWN uniform, not THE uniform in general.
Click to expand...


That was indeed my point. My mistake is in thinking that other people are of the same intellectual capacity. My bad. I really should be more careful and ensure that I dumb down to the lowest intellect on the board.


----------



## Modbert

Sunni's post and responses to his politicizing have been moved to the other thread. If you feel there is a post in this thread that is politicizing this incident, please PM me after it's been posted for between 5-10 minutes. I say this because I've been keeping watch of this thread all day, moving posts when need be and just means less work overall.


----------



## RadiomanATL

You sure your Pm box can handle it?


----------



## Modbert

RadiomanATL said:


> You sure your Pm box can handle it?



If I were a normal human being, no.


----------



## loosecannon

speculation is normal when something disturbs you and doesn't make sense. It is how you arrive at understanding.

What isn't normal is presumption. A completely different animal.

Or worse yet politicization. 

Just saying.


----------



## Mr. Jones

SFC Ollie said:


> I looked at his writing as setting up a fake insanity case. He overdid the stupidity.


 Another Manchurian candidate, ready to be declared insane.
His u-tube channel.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10#p/u/4/E8Wr6AeZTCE


----------



## American Horse

Mr. Jones said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I looked at his writing as setting up a fake insanity case. He overdid the stupidity.
> 
> 
> 
> Another Manchurian candidate, ready to be declared insane.
> His u-tube channel.
> http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10#p/u/4/E8Wr6AeZTCE
Click to expand...


By his own description, what he did today was "conscious dreaming" (a conscious dream)


----------



## Revere

The moron referred to it as CONSCIENCE dreaming on his Youtube channe.


----------



## ba1614

Why can't he just be a nut? Hard to believe, I know, but they're all over the fuckin' place anymore.


----------



## Immanuel

A Democratic Congresswoman and 18 others have been shot in Arizona.

From what I have heard so far the Congresswoman is still alive but five others including a federal judge and a nine year old girl are dead.  

http://www.usmessageboard.com/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=19

Please forgive me if this has already been posted.

Immie


----------



## Midnight Marauder

William Joyce said:


> Had both "The Communist Manifesto" and "Mein Kampf" on reading list...
> 
> Nutter.


Actually, he had them listed among many FAVORITES.

I've read both books, they're not my favorites but I have read them.


----------



## California Girl

And..... He was never a member of the military. The Army confirmed he applied and was rejected. Thank God for that!


----------



## SFC Ollie

Midnight Marauder said:


> William Joyce said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had both "The Communist Manifesto" and "Mein Kampf" on reading list...
> 
> Nutter.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, he had them listed among many FAVORITES.
> 
> I've read both books, they're not my favorites but I have read them.
Click to expand...


Most of us have read them or at least excerpts from them. I found Mein kampf so boring I'm not sure I actually finished it. Of course that was many years ago.


----------



## Midnight Marauder

SFC Ollie said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> William Joyce said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had both "The Communist Manifesto" and "Mein Kampf" on reading list...
> 
> Nutter.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, he had them listed among many FAVORITES.
> 
> I've read both books, they're not my favorites but I have read them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most of us have read them or at least excerpts from them. I found Mein kampf so boring I'm not sure I actually finished it. Of course that was many years ago.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was just making sure we understood the distinction between having merely read these "works" and having them listed as "favorite books."


----------



## SFC Ollie

I just realized I actually still have it sitting here in German.... LOL Anyone want to borrow it?


----------



## Valerie

> Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said at a Saturday evening news conference that "I don't have information about whether she was the first person shot, but yes, I believe she was the target."
> 
> The sheriff said Giffords was shot once in the head, and 18 other people were shot. Six are dead.
> 
> Dupnik said the gunman may not have acted alone. He said authorities may have a photo of another suspect.
> 
> Dupnik said officials believe a suspect in custody may have come to the grocery store parking lot with another person, and that person was in some way involved.
> 
> Dupnik would offer no other information.
> 
> People familiar with the investigation have identified the suspected gunman being held as 22-year-old Jared Loughner.
> 
> ...
> 
> *The hospital said Giffords' outlook was optimistic as she was responding to commands from doctors despite having a bullet go through her head. *The death toll included a 9-year-old girl, a federal judge, and a staffer for the Democratic congresswoman.



Sheriff: Giffords Was Gunman's Target - Baltimore News Story - WBAL Baltimore


----------



## RadiomanATL

SFC Ollie said:


> I just realized I actually still have it sitting here in German.... LOL Anyone want to borrow it?



I'm almost out of kindling...


sure.


----------



## Midnight Marauder

It's reported the police are now saying this cluck had an accomplice, a 54 year old male and they are looking for him.


----------



## SFC Ollie

RadiomanATL said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just realized I actually still have it sitting here in German.... LOL Anyone want to borrow it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm almost out of kindling...
> 
> 
> sure.
Click to expand...


----------



## Mr. Jones

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> I had a feeling this would happen sooner or later.  The political strife has really been brewing in this country for the past decade.  Frankly, I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner.


 She comes across as a nice woman, and seemed well liked by her constituents. *XXXXXXX Edited.*


----------



## Meister

merged


----------



## Trajan

RadiomanATL said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just realized I actually still have it sitting here in German.... LOL Anyone want to borrow it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm almost out of kindling...
> 
> 
> sure.
Click to expand...


hey wait up, read the section to us on the "Big Lie"...


----------



## RadiomanATL

SFC Ollie said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just realized I actually still have it sitting here in German.... LOL Anyone want to borrow it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm almost out of kindling...
> 
> 
> sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I'm famous!

Yay!


----------



## The T

Mr. Shaman said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Barring Info, Speculating On Motive Behind Giffords Shooting Helps No One
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah....let's try to *ignore* him being *one-more wannabe-'Bagger/conspiracy-nutjob**!!!*​
Click to expand...

 
Hasn't your MOMMY given you enough colouring books to do rather than come here and pollute these boards with your fucking nonsense?





Face it ShitMON...you are on the _idiot list._


----------



## Midnight Marauder

Midnight Marauder said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> is there any confirmation that this guy either was or was not a vet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was one Youtube video captioned something like "My last day in a terrorist country" in which a bizarrely dressed person burned the American flag.  So metaphorical?  Or related to Afghanistan?  You can't tell from the video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That wasn't his video, it's one he favorited.
Click to expand...

Actually, after further review... I take this back.

I now believe it's quite likely that both YouTube pages belong to the shooter.

1.) They look the same: Same "skin."
2.) Exact same type of mindless babble and illiteracy.
3.) "Terrorist" video appears to be shot in the area around Tuscon.
4.) Both joined and were active in YouTube around the same time.


----------



## Modbert

RadiomanATL said:


> I'm famous!
> 
> Yay!



Internet famous, the best kind of famous.


----------



## Midnight Marauder

Here's a picture of this cluck I scooped off Twitter. Dunno if I posted it already:


----------



## RadiomanATL

Modbert said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm famous!
> 
> Yay!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Internet famous, the best kind of famous.
Click to expand...


It's all part of my master plan to take over the world....


----------



## SFC Ollie

It is now being reported that the shooter was rejected by the US Army. He never served.....


----------



## California Girl

SFC Ollie said:


> It is now being reported that the shooter was rejected by the US Army. He never served.....



I already posted that. I've also heard it from the Army so I'm comfortable that its factually accurate. He tried to enlist and was rejected.


----------



## Dr.House

SFC Ollie said:


> It is now being reported that the shooter was rejected by the US Army. He never served.....



Where the hell did they get that Afghanistan vet crap?

The media sux....


----------



## Avatar4321

William Joyce said:


> Had both "The Communist Manifesto" and "Mein Kampf" on reading list...
> 
> Nutter.



Understanding the minds of evil people is nuts?


----------



## Modbert

Ended up moving around another 25-30 posts. Thread should be all set again.


----------



## SFC Ollie

Just heard that there are now 6 dead.


----------



## California Girl

Dr.House said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is now being reported that the shooter was rejected by the US Army. He never served.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where the hell did they get that Afghanistan vet crap?
> 
> The media sux....
Click to expand...


Which is why it is wise not to take anything that is said in the immediate aftermath of this kind of tragedy too seriously. Wise people wait for confirmation - it will take days to be sure of anything.


----------



## Avatar4321

SFC Ollie said:


> I looked at his writing as setting up a fake insanity case. He overdid the stupidity.



Im not convinced he expected to live through this. And if he didn't there was no point setting up an insanity defense.


----------



## Avatar4321

SFC Ollie said:


> Most of us have read them or at least excerpts from them. I found Mein kampf so boring I'm not sure I actually finished it. Of course that was many years ago.



Yeah I know. It's very boring. Cant believe anyone was convinced to follow Hitler because of that garbage.


----------



## SFC Ollie

Avatar4321 said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I looked at his writing as setting up a fake insanity case. He overdid the stupidity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im not convinced he expected to live through this. And if he didn't there was no point setting up an insanity defense.
Click to expand...


True, there are now reports that he said goodbye to some friends.


----------



## loosecannon

WillowTree said:


> Mr. Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a feeling this would happen sooner or later.  The political strife has really been brewing in this country for the past decade.  Frankly, I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner.
> 
> 
> 
> She comes across as a nice woman, and seemed well liked by her constituents. *XXXXXXX-Edited.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except you and don't taz me and none of the rest of us know yet whether or not it was politically motivated. do we?
Click to expand...


well so far the media has reported that he suffered alcohol poisoning brain damage and his web presence speaks of a political nutburger. Funny thing is I can't even tell if he is a libtard or a wingbat or something else. 

But it seems a certainty that she and/or the judge were targeted for political reasons. I don't see how anyone could think otherwise at this point.


----------



## Sallow

This was a horrible event. Six people died..and 13 were wounded.

Our thoughts should be with all the families..and we should hope for the swift recovery of all those wounded.


----------



## Avatar4321

loosecannon said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> She comes across as a nice woman, and seemed well liked by her constituents.  *XXXXXXX-Edited*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except you and don't taz me and none of the rest of us know yet whether or not it was politically motivated. do we?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> well so far the media has reported that he suffered alcohol poisoning brain damage and his web presence speaks of a political nutburger. Funny thing is I can't even tell if he is a libtard or a wingbat or something else.
> 
> But it seems a certainty that she and/or the judge were targeted for political reasons. I don't see how anyone could think otherwise at this point.
Click to expand...


What makes you think he is either?


----------



## Modbert

Officials are saying she was the target.

Arizona Rep. Giffords shot, 6 killed in rampage - Yahoo! News



> Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said Giffords was the target of a gunman whom he described as mentally unstable and possibly acting along with an accomplice. He said Giffords was among 13 people wounded in the melee that killed six people, including Arizona's chief federal judge, a 9-year-old girl and an aide for the Democratic lawmaker. He said the rampage ended only after two people tackled the gunman.


----------



## DiveCon

Modbert said:


> Officials are saying she was the target.
> 
> Arizona Rep. Giffords shot, 6 killed in rampage - Yahoo! News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said Giffords was the target of a gunman whom he described as mentally unstable and possibly acting along with an accomplice. He said Giffords was among 13 people wounded in the melee that killed six people, including Arizona's chief federal judge, a 9-year-old girl and an aide for the Democratic lawmaker. He said the rampage ended only after two people tackled the gunman.
Click to expand...

i hope they give awards to the two people that risked their lives taking this nutter down


----------



## bigrebnc1775

This is a sad day for all Americans.


----------



## elvis

merged.


----------



## Cecilie1200

SFC Ollie said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I looked at his writing as setting up a fake insanity case. He overdid the stupidity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im not convinced he expected to live through this. And if he didn't there was no point setting up an insanity defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True, there are now reports that he said goodbye to some friends.
Click to expand...


It was apparently on his MySpace page before it went down.  The local news is reporting that he dropped out of high school before his senior year, that the local community college had trouble with him before, and that he has a criminal record for drug possession.


----------



## DiveCon

Modbert said:


> Officials are saying she was the target.
> 
> Arizona Rep. Giffords shot, 6 killed in rampage - Yahoo! News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said Giffords was the target of a gunman whom he described as mentally unstable and possibly acting along with an accomplice. He said Giffords was among 13 people wounded in the melee that killed six people, including Arizona's chief federal judge, a 9-year-old girl and an aide for the Democratic lawmaker. He said the rampage ended only after two people tackled the gunman.
Click to expand...

unless the guy has talked and admitted that she was his intended target, and he may have, they are also just speculating


----------



## Modbert

DiveCon said:


> unless the guy has talked and admitted that she was his intended target, and he may have, they are also just speculating



Perhaps, don't know for sure. Just reporting what they were saying.


----------



## Valerie

> Pima County, Ariz., Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said authorities believe Giffords was targeted by the shooter. But Fox News legal analyst Andrew Napolitano said the killer is likely facing the death penalty even if he didn't target Roll or others in particular during the shooting.
> 
> Napolitano said it would be a federal crime of capital murder eligible for the death sentence if the killer's motive was to prevent Roll from carrying out his judicial role.
> 
> "If on the other hand he was just killed because he happened to get in the way, then it's not a federal crime, then Arizona law would take place. He still may be exposed to the death penalty but it would be under Arizona jurisdiction and not federal."
> 
> Napolitano said a federal prosecution is likely to occur first.



FoxNews.com - Arizona Suspect Likely Facing Death Penalty for Fatally Shooting Federal Judge

Edited for copyright, Modbert.


----------



## Avatar4321

Valerie said:


> FoxNews.com - Arizona Suspect Likely Facing Death Penalty for Fatally Shooting Federal Judge



If what they've been saying about the guy is accurate, no, he wont be facing the death penalty. The Supreme Court eliminated that option with mentally deficient people years ago.


----------



## Truthmatters

A very very sad day for America and democracy


----------



## DiveCon

Avatar4321 said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> 
> FoxNews.com - Arizona Suspect Likely Facing Death Penalty for Fatally Shooting Federal Judge
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If what they've been saying about the guy is accurate, no, he wont be facing the death penalty. The Supreme Court eliminated that option with mentally deficient people years ago.
Click to expand...

that depends on AZ laws


----------



## Valerie

Avatar4321 said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> 
> FoxNews.com - Arizona Suspect Likely Facing Death Penalty for Fatally Shooting Federal Judge
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If what they've been saying about the guy is accurate, no, he wont be facing the death penalty. The Supreme Court eliminated that option with mentally deficient people years ago.
Click to expand...




I'm not privy to his official mental capacity but regardless, his legal defense will likely own up to targeting Giffords and only shooting the judge as a "passer by"...



_"Napolitano said it would be a federal crime of capital murder eligible for the death sentence_ *if* _the killer's motive was to prevent Roll from carrying out his judicial role."_


----------



## Neotrotsky

Avatar4321 said:


> William Joyce said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had both "The Communist Manifesto" and "Mein Kampf" on reading list...
> 
> Nutter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Understanding the minds of evil people is nuts?
Click to expand...



Very true

Also listed on his youtube accounts under My Favorites is a video of burning the Flag. This guy is just nuts

US flag torched.


----------



## Ropey

Terrible ordeal. I pray for the pain of those still alive to be eased. Those who have perished are beyond my prayers of a mortal skein. 

So, I pray for their swift and unencumbered journey.


----------



## loosecannon

Avatar4321 said:


> loosecannon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except you and don't taz me and none of the rest of us know yet whether or not it was politically motivated. do we?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well so far the media has reported that he suffered alcohol poisoning brain damage and his web presence speaks of a political nutburger. Funny thing is I can't even tell if he is a libtard or a wingbat* or something else. *
> 
> But it seems a certainty that she and/or the judge were targeted for political reasons. I don't see how anyone could think otherwise at this point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What makes you think he is either?
Click to expand...


I mentioned that option as well.


----------



## Avatar4321

loosecannon said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loosecannon said:
> 
> 
> 
> well so far the media has reported that he suffered alcohol poisoning brain damage and his web presence speaks of a political nutburger. Funny thing is I can't even tell if he is a libtard or a wingbat* or something else. *
> 
> But it seems a certainty that she and/or the judge were targeted for political reasons. I don't see how anyone could think otherwise at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think he is either?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I mentioned that option as well.
Click to expand...


So you did. I missed it.


----------



## Father Time

DiveCon said:


> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> um, that IS incompetence
> they should only be reporting the confirmed FACTS
> not making guesses and speculation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is the need to be the first to "break" the story or updates.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> thats the main problem
> 
> be first instead of being RIGHT
Click to expand...


Yeah then you can brag about being able to deliver the news faster than everyone (even if there's some non-news in it.


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> Dana Bash is reporting that she is hurt badly.  I went through assassinations and attempts in the 1960s with many on this Board.  This is serious, very serious.


I hate this stuff....First the families of the victims comes to my mind. I set aside politics and all that rubbish. I place myself in their shoes and think of how I would conduct myself in the face of such tragedy. The next step is anger toward the perpetrator(s).
They guy that shot these people...I want him dead by the cruelest means available under the law.


----------



## Kat

thereisnospoon said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dana Bash is reporting that she is hurt badly.  I went through assassinations and attempts in the 1960s with many on this Board.  This is serious, very serious.
> 
> 
> 
> I hate this stuff....First the families of the victims comes to my mind. I set aside politics and all that rubbish. I place myself in their shoes and think of how I would conduct myself in the face of such tragedy. The next step is anger toward the perpetrator(s).
> They guy that shot these people...I want him dead by the cruelest means available under the law.
Click to expand...




I want to know why first.


----------



## Chris

The police reported that this guy had threatened to kill people in the past. 

How was he then able to get a gun?


----------



## DiveCon

Chris said:


> The police reported that this guy had threatened to kill people in the past.
> 
> How was he then able to get a gun?


where has this been reported?


----------



## Chris

DiveCon said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> 
> The police reported that this guy had threatened to kill people in the past.
> 
> How was he then able to get a gun?
> 
> 
> 
> where has this been reported?
Click to expand...


The sheriff said it in his news conference.


----------



## thereisnospoon

Kat said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dana Bash is reporting that she is hurt badly.  I went through assassinations and attempts in the 1960s with many on this Board.  This is serious, very serious.
> 
> 
> 
> I hate this stuff....First the families of the victims comes to my mind. I set aside politics and all that rubbish. I place myself in their shoes and think of how I would conduct myself in the face of such tragedy. The next step is anger toward the perpetrator(s).
> They guy that shot these people...I want him dead by the cruelest means available under the law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want to know why first.
Click to expand...

then on a platter?


----------



## Truthmatters

His death will not take the hole out of this womans head or bring back to life a little girl


----------



## txlonghorn

It's a terrible thing.  Any act like this is deplorable.  And it should never be politicized.  

This animal is heartless and has no appreciation for life.


----------



## Sarah G

Kat said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dana Bash is reporting that she is hurt badly.  I went through assassinations and attempts in the 1960s with many on this Board.  This is serious, very serious.
> 
> 
> 
> I hate this stuff....First the families of the victims comes to my mind. I set aside politics and all that rubbish. I place myself in their shoes and think of how I would conduct myself in the face of such tragedy. The next step is anger toward the perpetrator(s).
> They guy that shot these people...I want him dead by the cruelest means available under the law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want to know why first.
Click to expand...


I'm glad he didn't kill himself.  Maybe we will get to know the answer to that question anyway.


----------



## Sarah G

Thank God he was tackled.  Those two were brave heros for doing that.


----------



## editec

One can still see Jared YouTube video here

Jared Lee Loughner

It appears to have the disjointed and tangential thinking of a paranoid schizophrenic to me.

The kid was a nutter. Yes I think he was politically motivated but what sort of politics was it?

His own psychotic brand, I suspect.


----------



## goldcatt

It's fairly obvious to me anyway looking at what he left behind online this kid had problems. Some troubled kids get lost in sex, drugs and bad music. This kid got lost in the maze of the pseudo-political fringes in cyber loonyland. His ideology if you want to call it that is so screwed up it doesn't fit any label. Trying to pin one on him to further any agenda is ridiculous.


----------



## editec

goldcatt said:


> It's fairly obvious to me anyway looking at what he left behind online this kid had problems. Some troubled kids get lost in sex, drugs and bad music. This kid got lost in the maze of the pseudo-political fringes in cyber loonyland. His ideology if you want to call it that is so screwed up it doesn't fit any label. Trying to pin one on him to further any agenda is ridiculous.


 
Ya think?  I think so too

Was he killing for literacy or was it the gold standard that motivated him to kill not only a POL but people who were just in the crowd?

His Youtube video is incoherence.

Leftist?  Well _literacy education_ is one of the left's pet issues.

The Gold standard?  Now that's usually the hallmark of a government fearing rightist.

Like I said this guy appears to be politically motivated but his politics aren't exactly walking the line with any party or movement I'm aware of.


----------



## Silkcity19

As if this story of a young girl getting killed isn't bad enough, and if you live in Philly like me, or are a Phillie's fan it really puts a face on the crime

Dallas Green's granddaughter killed in Arizona shooting | Philly | 01/09/2011

So sad for everyone


----------



## Ernie S.

Interesting trivia: The 9 year old girl who died was born September 11, 2001.


----------



## WillowTree

Ernie S. said:


> Interesting trivia: The 9 year old girl who died was born September 11, 2001.



That's so sad. To be born on that day of all days and to have died so young.


----------



## Modbert

For goodness sakes folks, I just had to move another 51 posts. 

Don't. Politicize. This. Thread.

Quite simple really.


----------



## Immanuel

Yesterday was a sad day in our history.

I pray for a speedy recovery for Congresswoman Giffords and for the peace and comfort for the families of those who had their lives so tragically stolen from them.  

Immie


----------



## California Girl

Immanuel said:


> Yesterday was a sad day in our history.
> 
> I pray for a speedy recovery for Congresswoman Giffords and for the peace and comfort for the families of those who had their lives so tragically stolen from them.
> 
> Immie



We should remember, and pray for, the other 5 people who were also injured - some in serious condition. I understand that the Congresswoman is the most well known, but others have died, and some are still struggling for life. Let's not forget them and their families.


----------



## Misty

Analysis From Meno, one of Loughner's favorite books;

Plato is trying to convince a world that has always been certain in it's knowledge that not only does the world not understand but is incapable of understanding virtue. 

Most virtuous men are so by holding "right opinions" rather than true knowledge. 


This is what was in this kids head.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Misty said:


> Analysis From Meno, one of Loughner's favorite books;
> 
> Plato is trying to convince a world that has always been certain in it's knowledge that not only does the world not understand but is incapable of understanding virtue.
> 
> Most virtuous men are so by holding "right opinions" rather than true knowledge.
> 
> 
> This is what was in this kids head.



So what are you  trying to imply?


----------



## Cecilie1200

DiveCon said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> 
> FoxNews.com - Arizona Suspect Likely Facing Death Penalty for Fatally Shooting Federal Judge
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If what they've been saying about the guy is accurate, no, he wont be facing the death penalty. The Supreme Court eliminated that option with mentally deficient people years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that depends on AZ laws
Click to expand...


Nope.  He committed a FEDERAL crime.  If he'd broken into her house to rob it and shot her in the process, THAT would be a state crime.  Shooting her while she acted in her capacity as a US Congressmember . . .


----------



## DiveCon

Cecilie1200 said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If what they've been saying about the guy is accurate, no, he wont be facing the death penalty. The Supreme Court eliminated that option with mentally deficient people years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> that depends on AZ laws
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope.  He committed a FEDERAL crime.  If he'd broken into her house to rob it and shot her in the process, THAT would be a state crime.  Shooting her while she acted in her capacity as a US Congressmember . . .
Click to expand...

it seems he has broken both state and fed law
so both will get a piece of him


----------



## Intense

*Stop with the Flame Wars. Nobody is interested in it. You want to Parrot back and forth the same Bullshit 50 Times Over, start your own Thread in the Romper Room.*


----------



## American Horse

Revere said:


> The moron referred to it as CONSCIENCE dreaming on his Youtube channe.



Here's an evaluation on that issue by a psychologist: 
Psychologists view Loughner as a man with 'serious mental issues going on'[page two]


" Whether the delusions he harbors have anything to do with this [shooting] is unclear," said Mr. Kucharski. "He may well have an elaborate delusional system in which she played a role."

Mr. Loughner was also intently interested in the phenomenon of "conscious dreaming" or "lucid dreaming," in which the dreamer controls the dream. His longtime friend Bryce Tierney told Mother Jones magazine that Mr. Loughner had become "more interested in this world than our reality."

Mr. Tierney, whose comments provide the most-comprehensive window into Mr. Loughner's mind to date, said his friend told him that, "I'm so into it because I can create things and fly. I'm everything I'm not in this world."

Dreaming was "his waking life, his reality," Mr. Tierney said. "He sort of drifted off, didn't care about hanging out with friends. He'd be sleeping a lot."

Mr. Loughner's mental state appeared to deteriorate as he entered his late teens and early 20s, another sign of a thought disorder such as bipolar or schizophrenia. He dropped out of high school after an uneventful academic career, but then ran into trouble repeatedly at Pima Community College."


----------



## peach174

I'm so glad to hear that Gabby is doing so well with such a horrific type of wound. They took her off the breathing tube and she was able to breathe on her own. So far no swelling of her brain. 
I think God is looking after her.


----------



## WillowTree

peach174 said:


> I'm so glad to hear that Gabby is doing so well with such a horrific type of wound. They took her off the breathing tube and she was able to breathe on her own. So far no swelling of her brain.
> I think God is looking after her.



This is good news.


----------



## MajinLink

peach174 said:


> I'm so glad to hear that Gabby is doing so well with such a horrific type of wound. They took her off the breathing tube and she was able to breathe on her own. So far no swelling of her brain.
> *I think God is looking after her.*



Not to sound inhuman or anything, but if you think that then you must think God let the other people who weren't so lucky die. Most of the other people who died were either really old or really young, the type that wouldn't survive a deadly attack as easily.


----------



## peach174

Yes, that's why they are in heaven now,because they wouldn't survive as easily.
It's not God's fault, it's Satan who does these evil things. He causes sickness and illnes if you read your bible.


----------



## Cecilie1200

peach174 said:


> Yes, that's why they are in heaven now,because they wouldn't survive as easily.
> It's not God's fault, it's Satan who does these evil things. He causes sickness and illnes if you read your bible.



I disagree.  It's humans who do evil things.  All Satan does - all he needs to do - is encourage the evil that already lives inside of us.


----------



## Cecilie1200

On another note, does anyone think Giffords will need to be replaced?  Even if she has a phenomenal recovery - and God willing she does - it's going to be a long time before she's up to fulfilling the requirements of her job, nor should she have to be concerned about that or anything else but her health at a time like this.  I'm a little unclear on the procedure, but if memory serves, only one other Representative has been removed for medical reasons before, and it involved a House resolution to that effect.  Does anyone have any idea how long they would wait?

It's a horrible thing to have to think about, but on the other hand, I live in that district, and I don't wish to be without Congressional representation just to be polite.


----------



## JamesInFlorida

Cecilie1200 said:


> On another note, does anyone think Giffords will need to be replaced?  Even if she has a phenomenal recovery - and God willing she does - it's going to be a long time before she's up to fulfilling the requirements of her job, nor should she have to be concerned about that or anything else but her health at a time like this.  I'm a little unclear on the procedure, but if memory serves, only one other Representative has been removed for medical reasons before, and it involved a House resolution to that effect.  Does anyone have any idea how long they would wait?
> 
> It's a horrible thing to have to think about, but on the other hand, I live in that district, and I don't wish to be without Congressional representation just to be polite.



The governor could call for a special election, where the district would vote for a new representative, but that's in cases where the representative has died, or quits. The constitution to my knowledge doesn't really say what happens in a situation like this, and honestly I'm not sure if the governor would be permitted to call a special election or not.

I'd guess the seat would for all intents and purposes be "vacant" until she either is able to make it to the House to vote, she resigns, or until the next election cycle.


----------



## Immanuel

Cecilie1200 said:


> On another note, does anyone think Giffords will need to be replaced?  Even if she has a phenomenal recovery - and God willing she does - it's going to be a long time before she's up to fulfilling the requirements of her job, nor should she have to be concerned about that or anything else but her health at a time like this.  I'm a little unclear on the procedure, but if memory serves, only one other Representative has been removed for medical reasons before, and it involved a House resolution to that effect.  Does anyone have any idea how long they would wait?
> 
> It's a horrible thing to have to think about, but on the other hand, I live in that district, and I don't wish to be without Congressional representation just to be polite.



I wondered the same thing.  Will she be able to finish out her term and function as a Congresswoman?  Can someone be appointed by the governor to fill her seat until she recovers (I pray she does soon) and is able to return to her seat or does it remain vacant until she has recovered?

Immie


----------



## Cecilie1200

JamesInFlorida said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> On another note, does anyone think Giffords will need to be replaced?  Even if she has a phenomenal recovery - and God willing she does - it's going to be a long time before she's up to fulfilling the requirements of her job, nor should she have to be concerned about that or anything else but her health at a time like this.  I'm a little unclear on the procedure, but if memory serves, only one other Representative has been removed for medical reasons before, and it involved a House resolution to that effect.  Does anyone have any idea how long they would wait?
> 
> It's a horrible thing to have to think about, but on the other hand, I live in that district, and I don't wish to be without Congressional representation just to be polite.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The governor could call for a special election, where the district would vote for a new representative, but that's in cases where the representative has died, or quits. The constitution to my knowledge doesn't really say what happens in a situation like this, and honestly I'm not sure if the governor would be permitted to call a special election or not.
> 
> I'd guess the seat would for all intents and purposes be "vacant" until she either is able to make it to the House to vote, she resigns, or until the next election cycle.
Click to expand...


I think if the Representative dies, the governor appoints someone to finish the term.  After all, Representatives only serve for two years at a time.  As I said, the only other time a Rep was removed for medical incapacity, I believe the House passed a resolution vacating the seat, which triggered a special election.

She was just re-elected, and I do NOT want to spend two years effectively without a Congressmember.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Immanuel said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> On another note, does anyone think Giffords will need to be replaced?  Even if she has a phenomenal recovery - and God willing she does - it's going to be a long time before she's up to fulfilling the requirements of her job, nor should she have to be concerned about that or anything else but her health at a time like this.  I'm a little unclear on the procedure, but if memory serves, only one other Representative has been removed for medical reasons before, and it involved a House resolution to that effect.  Does anyone have any idea how long they would wait?
> 
> It's a horrible thing to have to think about, but on the other hand, I live in that district, and I don't wish to be without Congressional representation just to be polite.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wondered the same thing.  Will she be able to finish out her term and function as a Congresswoman?  Can someone be appointed by the governor to fill her seat until she recovers (I pray she does soon) and is able to return to her seat or does it remain vacant until she has recovered?
> 
> Immie
Click to expand...


I don't think the law allows for a "temp" to fill in for a Congressmember.  I think you either do the job, or you get replaced.  I am a bit concerned about whether or not the House or whomever makes this decision will decide to simply leave my district hanging fire indefinitely.


----------



## DiveCon

Cecilie1200 said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> On another note, does anyone think Giffords will need to be replaced?  Even if she has a phenomenal recovery - and God willing she does - it's going to be a long time before she's up to fulfilling the requirements of her job, nor should she have to be concerned about that or anything else but her health at a time like this.  I'm a little unclear on the procedure, but if memory serves, only one other Representative has been removed for medical reasons before, and it involved a House resolution to that effect.  Does anyone have any idea how long they would wait?
> 
> It's a horrible thing to have to think about, but on the other hand, I live in that district, and I don't wish to be without Congressional representation just to be polite.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The governor could call for a special election, where the district would vote for a new representative, but that's in cases where the representative has died, or quits. The constitution to my knowledge doesn't really say what happens in a situation like this, and honestly I'm not sure if the governor would be permitted to call a special election or not.
> 
> I'd guess the seat would for all intents and purposes be "vacant" until she either is able to make it to the House to vote, she resigns, or until the next election cycle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think if the Representative dies, the governor appoints someone to finish the term.  After all, Representatives only serve for two years at a time.  As I said, the only other time a Rep was removed for medical incapacity, I believe the House passed a resolution vacating the seat, which triggered a special election.
> 
> She was just re-elected, and I do NOT want to spend two years effectively without a Congressmember.
Click to expand...

nope
thats only for Senators
Reps have to be replaced by election


----------



## Cecilie1200

DiveCon said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> The governor could call for a special election, where the district would vote for a new representative, but that's in cases where the representative has died, or quits. The constitution to my knowledge doesn't really say what happens in a situation like this, and honestly I'm not sure if the governor would be permitted to call a special election or not.
> 
> I'd guess the seat would for all intents and purposes be "vacant" until she either is able to make it to the House to vote, she resigns, or until the next election cycle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think if the Representative dies, the governor appoints someone to finish the term.  After all, Representatives only serve for two years at a time.  As I said, the only other time a Rep was removed for medical incapacity, I believe the House passed a resolution vacating the seat, which triggered a special election.
> 
> She was just re-elected, and I do NOT want to spend two years effectively without a Congressmember.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nope
> thats only for Senators
> Reps have to be replaced by election
Click to expand...


Any idea who makes that decision, and how long they're likely to wait to make it?


----------



## DiveCon

Cecilie1200 said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think if the Representative dies, the governor appoints someone to finish the term.  After all, Representatives only serve for two years at a time.  As I said, the only other time a Rep was removed for medical incapacity, I believe the House passed a resolution vacating the seat, which triggered a special election.
> 
> She was just re-elected, and I do NOT want to spend two years effectively without a Congressmember.
> 
> 
> 
> nope
> thats only for Senators
> Reps have to be replaced by election
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any idea who makes that decision, and how long they're likely to wait to make it?
Click to expand...

no idea
but honestly, if i were you i'd wait
i sure as hell would want that woman back at her job
i'd take her over my current congress critter, thats for sure


----------



## Cecilie1200

DiveCon said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> nope
> thats only for Senators
> Reps have to be replaced by election
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any idea who makes that decision, and how long they're likely to wait to make it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no idea
> but honestly, if i were you i'd wait
> i sure as hell would want that woman back at her job
> i'd take her over my current congress critter, thats for sure
Click to expand...


I have no idea who your Congressman is, although it's entirely possible he/she is worse than Representative Giffords.  I can't imagine why you think that means "sure as hell" wanting Giffords back.  I didn't want her to begin with, although obviously I didn't want her out of office like THIS (It's disgusting that some people are so sick and partisan that I would have to even say that).

My big concern at the moment is that, despite the fact that she seems to be making a phenomenal recovery given the type of injury she suffered, that isn't the same as being able to carry out her job any time soon.  As I understand it, the bullet went all the way through her brain, and she only survived because it remained in the same hemisphere, rather than crossing into the other one as well (I could be mistaken on this).  I simply cannot imagine her being able to resume her duties any time in the near future, and I don't like the idea of my district having no Representative at all.


----------



## DiveCon

Cecilie1200 said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any idea who makes that decision, and how long they're likely to wait to make it?
> 
> 
> 
> no idea
> but honestly, if i were you i'd wait
> i sure as hell would want that woman back at her job
> i'd take her over my current congress critter, thats for sure
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have no idea who your Congressman is, although it's entirely possible he/she is worse than Representative Giffords.  I can't imagine why you think that means "sure as hell" wanting Giffords back.  I didn't want her to begin with, although obviously I didn't want her out of office like THIS (It's disgusting that some people are so sick and partisan that I would have to even say that).
> 
> My big concern at the moment is that, despite the fact that she seems to be making a phenomenal recovery given the type of injury she suffered, that isn't the same as being able to carry out her job any time soon.  As I understand it, the bullet went all the way through her brain, and she only survived because it remained in the same hemisphere, rather than crossing into the other one as well (I could be mistaken on this).  I simply cannot imagine her being able to resume her duties any time in the near future, and I don't like the idea of my district having no Representative at all.
Click to expand...

Chellie Pingree ME-1


----------



## goldcatt

To my knowledge there's no mechanism, outside of a resolution by the House, to remove a Member of Congress involuntarily for heath reasons. Both the House and Senate have had members who missed months at a time due to illness or injury and that step was never taken, nor IMO should it be unless it's clear the Member will not be able to resume her duties. It's only been a few days, and the abilities of the human brain are in some ways a mystery to even the experts. Wait and see.


----------



## sangha

MajinLink said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm so glad to hear that Gabby is doing so well with such a horrific type of wound. They took her off the breathing tube and she was able to breathe on her own. So far no swelling of her brain.
> *I think God is looking after her.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not to sound inhuman or anything, but if you think that then you must think God let the other people who weren't so lucky die. Most of the other people who died were either really old or really young, the type that wouldn't survive a deadly attack as easily.
Click to expand...


The christians already know that their God is a bloodthirsty villain. That's why they worship him.


----------



## Immanuel

goldcatt said:


> To my knowledge there's no mechanism, outside of a resolution by the House, to remove a Member of Congress involuntarily for heath reasons. Both the House and Senate have had members who missed months at a time due to illness or injury and that step was never taken, nor IMO should it be unless it's clear the Member will not be able to resume her duties. It's only been a few days, and the abilities of the human brain are in some ways a mystery to even the experts. Wait and see.



Prayerfully, she will fully recover and be able to resume her duties very soon.

I have to say that it seems a miracle to me that she is still alive.  Maybe when she has recovered we should consider her for a national position... I mean she seems to have been blessed.  

Immie


----------



## Foxfyre

Dittoing what Immanuel said.

As some have said, I believe the only legal means provided for replacing a member of the House other than in a general election is via a special election.  If an incapacitated member is to be replaced, it would be necessary for there to be a formal recall in which a majority of the people vote to replace the member and then a special election to elect a new representative.  As that would be a lengthy and expensive process, in the case of an ailing House member, they'll just wait until the next general election.

They don't want Congress or a state governor to appoint replacements even temporarily because it would be possible, in case of catastrophic loss of a delegation, that the appointments would benefit only one party or change the balance of power in Congress.

So, lets all hope the Gentlewoman recovers and is able to resume her lawfully elected position.  Not only do we hope that for her and her family, that would also take all the politics out of it.

In the aftermath of 9/11 there was a lot of discussion in Congress on how to deal with a catastrophic loss of members from the House or Senate or both.  What if the 9/11 terrorists had been successful in hitting the capital building when most of the House or Senate members were present in session or there was a joint session of Congress?  It is not inconceivable that an entire state delegation could be wiped out or enough members killed or injured to prevent a quorum for important votes.

There is a pretty good report on some of that here:
http://www.policyarchive.org/handle/10207/bitstreams/1409.pdf


----------

