# Where is heaven?  Where is Hell?



## pacer (Sep 20, 2013)

Where is heaven?  Is it a place?  Is it in our imagination?  Is it a concept of mind signifying a deeper underlying meaning?  Likewise, where is hell?

Looking forward to your reply.


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## TheOldSchool (Sep 20, 2013)

A concept beyond our ability to fully grasp.  That clear things up?


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## pacer (Sep 20, 2013)

Yes, thank you.  In other words, it is a concept of mind as in our imagination.


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## TheOldSchool (Sep 20, 2013)

pacer said:


> Yes, thank you.  In other words, it is a concept of mind as in our imagination.



No imagination is a concept you can grasp.  You can define it.

So no not like imagination.


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## Chuckt (Sep 20, 2013)

pacer said:


> Where is heaven? Is it a place? Is it in our imagination? Is it a concept of mind signifying a deeper underlying meaning? Likewise, where is hell?
> 
> Looking forward to your reply.


 
When I know what you want to prove then maybe I'll answer.


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## pacer (Sep 20, 2013)

TheOldSchool said:


> No imagination is a concept you can grasp.  You can define it.
> 
> So no not like imagination.



You lost me.  If heaven is a concept of mind, it was generated from the mind and, therefore, can be imagined.


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## pacer (Sep 20, 2013)

Chuckt said:


> When I know what you want to prove then maybe I'll answer.


This is not a trick question.


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## percysunshine (Sep 20, 2013)

Take a left for Hell, and a right for Heaven.


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## pacer (Sep 20, 2013)

percysunshine said:


> Take a left for Hell, and a right for Heaven.


haha Cute!


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## TheOldSchool (Sep 20, 2013)

pacer said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> > No imagination is a concept you can grasp.  You can define it.
> ...



It was generated from a book that contains words that supposedly originated from something that we cannot grasp.

So it was not generated from any mind and cannot be compared to imagination.


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## pacer (Sep 20, 2013)

TheOldSchool said:


> It was generated from a book that contains words that supposedly originated from something that we cannot grasp.
> 
> So it was not generated from any mind.


But the book did not generate itself.  The 'word(s)' were generated from the mind of man.  Where is heaven and hell if not in one's own imagination?  It is man who invented the concept of a heaven and hell and attributed it to the word of God.


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## Chuckt (Sep 20, 2013)

pacer said:


> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> > Take a left for Hell, and a right for Heaven.
> ...


 
Kind of right!

http://practicalbibleteaching.weebly.com/2/post/2012/08/the-road-less-traveled.html


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## longknife (Sep 20, 2013)

All societies everywhere in the world had and have today different concepts of what life after death will be. Many prepare burial sites with things they feel they will need in the afterlife. Almost all believe that certain actions will cause one to suffer in the afterlife while others believe the opposite.

As it is universal in all cultures, it would appear to me to be something factual. 

Of course, those seeking power using such beliefs fashion them in their own fashion for their own needs. "Follow me and I shall show you the light" - but don't forget to give me a goodly portion of your worldly wealth for doing so.


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## Chuckt (Sep 20, 2013)

longknife said:


> Of course, those seeking power using such beliefs fashion them in their own fashion for their own needs. "Follow me and I shall show you the light" - but don't forget to give me a goodly portion of your worldly wealth for doing so.


 
God doesn't need your money.  I haven't asked for a dime doing evangelism for 27 years.

Psalm 50:10   For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.  

God doesn't need your money.


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## pacer (Sep 20, 2013)

Chuckt said:


> God doesn't need your money.


But there is a lot of money to be made in preaching the Gospel.


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## Chuckt (Sep 20, 2013)

pacer said:


> Chuckt said:
> 
> 
> > God doesn't need your money.
> ...


 
Most do not make money on preaching the gospel. Most pastors can't get their churches above 80 people.

There is a difference between raising your own support which isn't wrong.

We got a raise at work and our question is, "how much is enough?" Even if I made money on this (which I don't), I wouldn't get $3.35 an our out of it considering how many hours I put in.


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## pacer (Sep 20, 2013)

Do you not have your place of residence paid for by the congregation?


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## pacer (Sep 20, 2013)

We've gotten off topic.  Can you explain where heaven and hell reside?  The Biblical references point to a heaven and hell but do not say WHERE it is.


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## Chuckt (Sep 20, 2013)

pacer said:


> Do you not have your place of residence paid for by the congregation?


 
No.


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## Chuckt (Sep 20, 2013)

pacer said:


> We've gotten off topic. Can you explain where heaven and hell reside? The Biblical references point to a heaven and hell but do not say WHERE it is.


 
It is one temporary place that eventually gets put into a permanent place.

It is thought to be the grave at first.

The second compartment of hell (Abraham's bosom) was emptied out and was the throne room of God.

The location of Heaven may be an anthropomorphism which isn't going to tell you the location.


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## BreezeWood (Sep 20, 2013)

existence without our physiology is the Everlasting.

there is no hell.


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## pacer (Sep 20, 2013)

Chuckt said:


> pacer said:
> 
> 
> > We've gotten off topic. Can you explain where heaven and hell reside? The Biblical references point to a heaven and hell but do not say WHERE it is.
> ...


It is the best attempt I've seen at answering the question.  I had to look up anthropomorphism.  Anthropomorphism (I won't forget that word) is the attribution of human form or characteristics to anything other than a human being. (Wikipedia)  If ascribing human emotions or motives to forces of nature, such as hurricanes or earthquakes, etc., I can see how heaven could be somewhere out there in the cosmos.  But it is a man-made concept attributed to God.


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## longknife (Sep 20, 2013)

Chuckt said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> > Of course, those seeking power using such beliefs fashion them in their own fashion for their own needs. "Follow me and I shall show you the light" - but don't forget to give me a goodly portion of your worldly wealth for doing so.
> ...



I'm sorry you feel your thin skin was pricked.

I was not talking about YOU as I don't know you. I was talking about priests in general, those leading religious organizations.

A huge majority of religious leaders live off their followers as they do not have otherwise productive careers.


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## Chuckt (Sep 20, 2013)

longknife said:


> Chuckt said:
> 
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> > longknife said:
> ...


 
Years ago, I started a thread on another board which asked, "Are false teachers an aid to faith?"  Why not?  Or why would God allow it?  A woman joined for a month and said she started having Bible studies with the Jehovah Witnesses and realized that it was just nonsense and now she is a Christian.  How would you know what love was if there wasn't a thing such as sin?  If Eve said, "Adam, do you love me?" would Adam reply, "who else?"  

The false teachers know who they are but in some ways they are an aid to faith even though I don't endorse it.  Who cares about them.  I care about what is real.  I care about God and His word because that is the real thing.


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## pacer (Sep 20, 2013)

Do you believe in the existence of a real heaven and hell?


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## Chuckt (Sep 20, 2013)

pacer said:


> Do you believe in the existence of a real heaven and hell?


 
Yes, and I even debated it and I know there will be a lot more to do about defending all the doctrines of the Bible.


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## pacer (Sep 20, 2013)

Chuckt said:


> pacer said:
> 
> 
> > Do you believe in the existence of a real heaven and hell?
> ...


I was attempting to post this question in the form of a poll.  I blew it.  I'll try again.


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## pacer (Sep 20, 2013)

Heaven and Hell, fact or fantasy?


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## pacer (Sep 20, 2013)

Chuckt, I thought you might be interested in this article.  It describes Anthropomorphism from the perspective of various philosophies.

Anthropomorphism


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 20, 2013)

There is No hell. Heaven is real.


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## pacer (Sep 20, 2013)

I believe heaven and hell are a state of mind...a real inner peace in the case of heaven and misery and turmoil in the case of hell.


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## skye (Sep 20, 2013)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFPajU-d-Ek]Belinda Carlisle - Heaven Is a Place on Earth (HQ) - YouTube[/ame]


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## TheOldSchool (Sep 20, 2013)

pacer said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> > No imagination is a concept you can grasp.  You can define it.
> ...



It's beyond our ability to comprehend.  You're trying to comprehend it.  That's not possible.


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## pacer (Sep 20, 2013)

Heaven and hell is a man-made concept.  It does not exist except in the mind.  Heaven to me is a state of mind...a state of inner peace and serenity and beauty.  It is what Buddhist's call light of consciousness or conscious presence.


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## koshergrl (Sep 20, 2013)

so your other thread, about how long it would take Christ to reach heaven, is bullshit spam.

Got it.


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## TheOldSchool (Sep 20, 2013)

pacer said:


> Heaven and hell is a man-made concept.  It does not exist except in the mind.  Heaven to me is a state of mind...a state of inner peace and serenity and beauty.  It is what Buddhist's call light of consciousness or conscious presence.



If you're coming from the perspective that heaven is a man-made concept then this argument is moot.


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## TheOldSchool (Sep 20, 2013)

Pacer, do you consider yourself an atheist?


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## JakeStarkey (Sep 20, 2013)

pacer said:


> I believe heaven and hell are a state of mind...a real inner peace in the case of heaven and misery and turmoil in the case of hell.



Yup.  As outward examples based on their board personas, Foxfyre and kevinkennedy on one side, and Koshergrl and Yurt on the other.

Excellent.


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## Steven_R (Sep 20, 2013)

I have no data concerning the afterlife either way. Yes, no, maybe so. I tend to think it's lights out at death and that's that until the Heat Death of the Universe.

That said, I find the idea of Hell being an eternal torment to be at odds with a God of Love. Punishment exists to teach. If one cannot be punished and then redeemed after death, then what good is Hell? God becomes little more than a mobster who says "I offered you my protection and you rejected it, so here's an eternity with my goons. Enjoy." That doesn't sound very loving to me. It sound more like an abusive husband who beats on his wife and says "Baby I love you. Why do you make me hit you?" 

I suspect if a Hell exists, it is simply an absence of God.


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## Politico (Sep 20, 2013)

If you need them to be that's all that matters.


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## LittleNipper (Sep 20, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


> There is No hell. Heaven is real.



Well, if there is not hell, then Satan will be in heaven too.


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## LittleNipper (Sep 20, 2013)

Steven_R said:


> I have no data concerning the afterlife either way. Yes, no, maybe so. I tend to think it's lights out at death and that's that until the Heat Death of the Universe.
> 
> That said, I find the idea of Hell being an eternal torment to be at odds with a God of Love. Punishment exists to teach. If one cannot be punished and then redeemed after death, then what good is Hell? God becomes little more than a mobster who says "I offered you my protection and you rejected it, so here's an eternity with my goons. Enjoy." That doesn't sound very loving to me. It sound more like an abusive husband who beats on his wife and says "Baby I love you. Why do you make me hit you?"
> 
> I suspect if a Hell exists, it is simply an absence of God.



God doesn't want any human to go to hell, and that is why Christ came and suffered on the cross. However, God also has to allow humans to decide for themselves where they wish to go. They choose to go to hell by rejecting God's Salvation. That decision comes with eternal consequences.


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## TNHarley (Sep 20, 2013)

I agree with Politico
If you need them, they are real
I don't need them so I don't believe in them


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## R.C. Christian (Sep 20, 2013)

Hell is in New Jersey.


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## GreatestIam (Sep 20, 2013)

LittleNipper said:


> Steven_R said:
> 
> 
> > I have no data concerning the afterlife either way. Yes, no, maybe so. I tend to think it's lights out at death and that's that until the Heat Death of the Universe.
> ...



So does embracing barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that you should profit from God having his son needlessly murdered.

I am not an atheist but Satan and Christians want atheists to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that we should profit from punishing the innocent instead of the guilty and here you are preaching for Satan. Shame on you.

In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning.

He would know that barbaric human sacrifice is immoral.

You do too. Right?

Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a so called son just to prove it's benevolence.

When you die, Satan will ask you; How was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood? 

When you say yes, you become his.

Regards
DL


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## GreatestIam (Sep 20, 2013)

pacer said:


> Heaven and Hell, fact or fantasy?



I believe as this Bishop does but I am not a Christian. I am the opposite in moral values to what a Christian is as they have a double standard. I am a Gnostic Christian.

There is a heaven but no hell.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc]'Hell' as an invention of the church - YouTube[/ame]

Regards
DL


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## LittleNipper (Sep 20, 2013)

GreatestIam said:


> LittleNipper said:
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> > Steven_R said:
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God never sponsored human sacrifice. The Son of God gave up his life. No one took it from him. And the fact remains that without the shedding of blood there can be no remission of sin. Satan doesn't ask anything of Christians. He controls only his own flock. Jesus himself stated that only GOD is good. A man is only righteous as far as he depends on God and not his own abilities. But righteousness is different than goodness.


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## LittleNipper (Sep 20, 2013)

GreatestIam said:


> pacer said:
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> 
> > Heaven and Hell, fact or fantasy?
> ...



Things either are or are not. Heaven and hell are a reality or they are not. It has nothing to do with what some "bishop" thinks or says. The Bible clearly has more to say about hell than of heaven. Jesus spoke more about hell than heaven. I hardly think that a place that doesn't exist is worthy of such attention. Hell was created for the fallen angels to stay. It was with the Fall of Adam and Eve that some fallen angels were given a time to live outside of hell. However, they will eventually return to hell, and all those that they have been able to command, will go there with them.


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## Chuckt (Sep 20, 2013)

LittleNipper said:


> GreatestIam said:
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> > pacer said:
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## tinydancer (Sep 20, 2013)

pacer said:


> Where is heaven?  Is it a place?  Is it in our imagination?  Is it a concept of mind signifying a deeper underlying meaning?  Likewise, where is hell?
> 
> Looking forward to your reply.



With all due respect. It's laid out Revelations.

Read the book. 

Everything will answer your questions.


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## GreatestIam (Sep 21, 2013)

LittleNipper said:


> GreatestIam said:
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> > LittleNipper said:
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So God made himself a make work project by keeping man forever dependant on him.

What a prick.

Would you do that immoral prickly thing to your children?

Regards
DL


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## GreatestIam (Sep 21, 2013)

LittleNipper said:


> GreatestIam said:
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> > pacer said:
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Except that A & E did not fall. 

They were elevated as the Jewish and true version and interpretation of their book shows.

If you are to usurp their God you should also take the story that goes with him.

Steal it all, not just half.

Regards
DL


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