# RIP Evan Sun (aged 4)



## Tommy Tainant (May 14, 2019)

Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident

Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.

No drugs, no violent movies, no broken homes, no gang members.

No consequences either. Life is cheap in the US.


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## MarcATL (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...


It's the Republican way!


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## whitehall (May 14, 2019)

To paraphrase a prominent democrat, "never let a tragedy go to waste if you can turn it into a political issue". Let the system work and the family grieve before y'all (foreign) vultures pounce on the body.


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## Correll (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...





You want to prosecute the dad?


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## CrusaderFrank (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
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> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...



Never let a crisis go to waste, eh, scumbag


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## Oddball (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
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> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
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> ...


Would you feel better if the toddler had accidentally fallen out an open window and broken his neck?


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## Moonglow (May 14, 2019)

Correll said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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They should.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...



While you're preening yourself on your "moral superiority" to Americans for not having guns, please know that we're looking at you as an insensitive, delusional dirtbag who views dead children as convenient political props.

You are no one we want to take advice from, Taint, let alone emulate.  Please write that down somewhere, and stop flattering yourself.


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## EvilCat Breath (May 14, 2019)

What a tragic ACCIDENT.


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## night_son (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...



Seems your radar would have been clear had he died in a drive-by. What's good for the goose is good for . . .

At least we Yanks can still buy all the steak knives we like. For $19.95 Wal Mart will sell you (pardon me, I mean sell an American) a nice Bowie Knife "combat" hatchet combo and a $350 semi-auto 12 gauge with an extended magazine, while you're stuck shooting spitballs at big game animals and marauders come SHTF and grocery stores run dry . So how's that working out for you Limeys? Gumming your beef whole? Next you'll be tenderizing it with rocks. Very small rocks, as your gubmint will surely outlaw the bigger, useful ones as lethal weapons. Instead of wishing you had a gun when you need one perhaps you'll just lie down and play dead . . . instead?


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## TheProgressivePatriot (May 14, 2019)

Correll said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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> > Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
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It should be possible to prosecute him. Some states require weapons to be secured. That is one of those "common sense " gun laws that could save lives, violate no  ones rights, but that are opposed by the ammosexuals  who fear and worship the NRA god. To leave the gun laying around is stupid and irresponsible, especially on the part of a cop.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 14, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


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You know what else is stupid and irresponsible?  Leaping to conclusions and making self-righteous pronouncements like that before the body's even cold, let alone the investigation by people with actual access to pertinent information is done.

You don't know what the circumstances are, and you're too pig-stupid and arrogant to know how much you don't know.


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## Hugo Furst (May 14, 2019)

Oddball said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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or Drowned swimming?


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## Oddball (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...


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## Hugo Furst (May 14, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Correll said:
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TheProgressivePatriot said:


> but that are opposed by the ammosexuals




'ammosexuals'


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## Papageorgio (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...



The person that left the gun available to a four year old needs to be prosecuted. Depraved indifference.

Tommy, you want to know what else is bad a daughter dying in a car accident, that is just as terrible as this. Did you know in the United States over 30,000 people die each year in a car crash. Accidental shootings like this the number last year was 485. Terrible number.


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## Tommy Tainant (May 14, 2019)

What part of Mr Suns "god given rights" would be impinged by requiring him to buy a box to lock up his guns ?


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## Hugo Furst (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> What part of Mr Suns "god given rights" would be impinged by requiring him to buy a box to lock up his guns ?



tommy

you can't legislate common sense.


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## TheProgressivePatriot (May 14, 2019)

Cecilie1200 said:


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Holy shit ! Seriously? Calm down and wipe the spit off of your chin. Kid picked up the gun. Kid should not have had access to the gun. What do you think might have happened? Did the 4 year old wrestle the gun away from his father? Did he break into a lock box where the gun should have been?  There is no excuse for this? Can you come up with any scenario where the father did not act carelessly?

Interesting how you have nothing to say about my contention that the law should require weapons to be secured. Afraid of the NRA Gods also?


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## Death Angel (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
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> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
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> ...


Was this the kid killed by your government medical system?

Edit: just looked it up. The kid killed by your medical system was Alfie Evans


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## Votto (May 14, 2019)

Crash that killed lesbian couple along with their six adopted children may have been INTENTIONAL | Daily Mail Online

Here is an even sadder story.

Turns out this Lesbian couple went nuts, for whatever reason, and decided to drive their six children aged 12-16 off a cliff to their deaths.

And since we know how much the author of this thread cares about children, especially minority children, I'm sure it will bring more outrage than the first story.


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## Papageorgio (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> What part of Mr Suns "god given rights" would be impinged by requiring him to buy a box to lock up his guns ?



The father or whoever left this gun out needs to be prosecuted. This is irresponsible and it cost a young boy his life.


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## TheProgressivePatriot (May 14, 2019)

WillHaftawaite said:


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Urban Dictionary: The Ammosexual - Democratic Underground

Yes ammosexual..


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## Hugo Furst (May 14, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


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as per Democratic Underground?


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## Tommy Tainant (May 14, 2019)

Papageorgio said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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> > What part of Mr Suns "god given rights" would be impinged by requiring him to buy a box to lock up his guns ?
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My heart tells me he has suffered enough. My head tells me that  another kid will die next week.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> What part of Mr Suns "god given rights" would be impinged by requiring him to buy a box to lock up his guns ?



What part of YOUR God-given rights - assuming your second-rate country even still recognizes any - would be impinged by you shutting your cakehole and waiting five whole minutes after a tragedy before passing judgement on what you "know" happened and using it as a political advertising gimmick?  We're not even REQUIRING it (since unlike you, we don't feel the need to micromanage the lives of others); we're just suggesting that a smidgen of maturity and good taste might be a welcome change.


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## TheProgressivePatriot (May 14, 2019)

Votto said:


> Crash that killed lesbian couple along with their six adopted children may have been INTENTIONAL | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Here is an even sadder story.
> 
> ...


Oh Guezzzus Fucking Christ almighty ! Are you serious. What the fuck would you think that the OP -or anyone -NOT express outrage about this ? Because the women were lesbians? That is just really fucking stupid. Must the OP express outrage about every tragedy that ever happened in order to be taken seriously about the one that is the subject of this thread. Your post is a pathetic appeal to hypocrisy logical fallacy


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## Cecilie1200 (May 14, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


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Holy shit!  Seriously?  You're rushing to pass judgement on an incident we know very little about, and you think you're qualified to tell someone ELSE to calm down?

I don't have any idea what happened.  And neither do you.  Which is my point.  Perhaps judgemental, sanctimonious asswipes like YOU feel it necessary to get on a soapbox about what you "think" happened, but save your invitations for me to join you.  Please notice in the linked article that there are two investigations into what happened and how being conducted at this time.  I'm perfectly fine with letting THEM determine the circumstances and appropriate consequences; but then, I'm a rational grown-up.

By the way, I DID have something to say about your contention.  It was the same thing I had to say about everything that spewed from your face anus:  spare me the psychic act, and you're a disgusting piece of shit for politicizing personal tragedy.

Next time you don't see the type of answer you want, please just assume it's because this is the answer.  No "afraid of the NRA gods" necessary to think you're used chewing gum on my shoe sole.


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## WillMunny (May 14, 2019)

Then that's the PARENTS' FUCKING FAULT for not keeping their guns properly locked away and secured from small children, you exercise in cornholing by Islam, you puerile, gamma-ray-emitting British American-hating testament to everything mankind has done wrong!  Who oozes around this board on your trail of British-mollusk snail slime.  Your entire UK has become such a sorry, cowardly, amoral disgrace to the human race, why can't your inbred island do the world a favor and commit mass suicide?   Oops, I forgot you Brits are already slowly doing that in multiple ways.


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## Tommy Tainant (May 14, 2019)

Cecilie1200 said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
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The infant shot himself with his Fathers gun. What else do you want to know ? Why does this not bother you ?


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## Papageorgio (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


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He is suffering and will continue to suffer, but the gun didn't kill, his negligence did. Like leaving a child in a car on a hot day with the windows rolled up. You are a parent, you need to protect you children at all costs and he left a gun out, that is mind boggling evidence and maybe his example teaches another person to put their gun away and lock it up. 

Nothing is more painful in life than losing a child, however, his negligence directly killed his own son.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


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Sane people's heads tell them that kids die every week, as do all other kinds of people.  Decent people's hearts tell them it's always sad, not just when you can use it as a political pawn.


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## Likkmee (May 14, 2019)




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## Frankeneinstein (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...


You would make a great pro-lifer tommy...


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## Cecilie1200 (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


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What else I want to know is called "facts".  You may have heard people far smarter than you - which is nearly everyone - talking about these "fact" things.  They would be the reason why the cops are investigating what happened and how, rather than just leaping to assumptions and pronouncements and judgements based on an utterly undeserved assumption of superior knowledge and morality, the way you do.

And don't you DARE to pass moral judgement on ME, you humanoid pond scum, as though you're "caring" about this child by turning him into a political soapbox.  We both know the only thing you ACTUALLY care about is that a gun was involved in his death; if the kid had died in any other fashion, you wouldn't give a tin shit that he had ever existed.


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## Dekster (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
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> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
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Father was law enforcement and happened with his service weapon.  No amount of gun control would stop these sorts of things from happening.


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## mdk (May 14, 2019)

Using a dead child to score political points. How ghoulish.


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## Papageorgio (May 14, 2019)

Dekster said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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The father then is doubly responsible.


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## deannalw (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
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> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
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Go bite yourself you miserable bitch.


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## Dekster (May 14, 2019)

Papageorgio said:


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I personally think parents should be prosecuted for at least child endangerment, preferably involuntary murder in these cases.


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## Frankeneinstein (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
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> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
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> ...


You can always get over it by convincing yourself that it was an overdeveloped fetus and therefore not a life tommy.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 14, 2019)

Papageorgio said:


> Dekster said:
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Thanks for sharing, Miss Cleo.  Maybe you oughta get on the horn and call the cops there and tell them that you "know" how it happened and that you "know" the father was negligent and responsible.  Save them the time and trouble of investigating what happened, the way boring ol' sane people without your psychic powers do.


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## TNHarley (May 14, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


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You think the NRA is against guns being locked up?
The NRA isnt half as hard ass as they should be.
You partisan drones are such........ drones.


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## 2aguy (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
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> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
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Hey...dipshit...did you read the story.......the gun belonged to his father....a cop....you moron.

His dad is a cop......


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## 2aguy (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
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> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
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You are a moron.......

Sgt. Tiffany Meeks of the patrol’s public-affairs unit, said in an email the boy’s father is Trooper Fu Z. Sun, a graduate of the 165th academy class. She also confirmed the gun involved in the incident was a “division-issued weapon.”


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## TheProgressivePatriot (May 14, 2019)

2aguy said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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And your point. Is ,..,,,,,?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cecilie1200 (May 14, 2019)

Dekster said:


> Papageorgio said:
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"These cases" being when you assume you know all the details based on your own imagination?


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## 2aguy (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
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> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
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And now let's discuss the 1.1 million Americans who use their legal guns to save lives each year....

First.....according to your logic, we need to ban cars.....since they accidentally kill far more children than guns do...and we have to ban alcohol again...since way, way more kids are accidentally killed because of alcohol than guns...

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

Accidental death of children.......

2017.... Kids (<1 - 14)

Guns....62

Cars...1,208

Suffocation:  1,215

*Drowning: 713*

*Poisoning:  84*

*Traffic: 1,261

Underage Drinking-Why Do Adolescents  Drink, What Are the Risks, and How Can Underage Drinking Be Prevented?

Each year, approximately 5,000 young people under the age of 21 die as a result of underage drinking; this includes about 1,900 deaths from motor vehicle crashes, 1,600 as a result of homicides, 300 from suicide, as well as hundreds from other injuries such as falls, burns, and drownings (1–5). 
*


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## TheProgressivePatriot (May 14, 2019)

2aguy said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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So ??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 2aguy (May 14, 2019)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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Remember.....the government in his country allowed thousands of children to be serially raped because they didn't want to be thought of as islamophobic.......


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## deannalw (May 14, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


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That made it even funnier!

You lefties must have a goal of a dipshit, asshole made up word a day. 

What's next? What will you goofballs call adults that identify as 5 year olds?


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## sparky (May 14, 2019)

2aguy said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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i'll wager some _ignorance_ is involved in every form you've posted

so how does that _validate_ one child's death vs another guy?

please _enlighten_ us to the dif between a ignorant gun owner vs. car owner here

~S~


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## Tommy Tainant (May 14, 2019)

2aguy said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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Yes.


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## fncceo (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Life is cheap in the US.



But not living ...


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## Frankeneinstein (May 14, 2019)

sparky said:


> i'll wager some _ignorance_ is involved in every form you've posted
> 
> so how does that _validate_ one child's death vs another guy?
> 
> please _enlighten_ us to the dif between a ignorant gun owner vs. car owner here


one of them is guaranteed the right to ownership.


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## Markle (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> My heart tells me he has suffered enough. My head tells me that another kid will die next week.



You don't believe that punishing the father will be a deterrent to other parents?  Why?


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## Correll (May 14, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


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You want to punish an accident, to deter people from owning guns.

Not because the man deserves to be punished, but just to make an example.


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## sparky (May 14, 2019)

Frankeneinstein said:


> sparky said:
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> > i'll wager some _ignorance_ is involved in every form you've posted
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do the blind have a right to drive?

~S~


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## Frankeneinstein (May 14, 2019)

sparky said:


> do the blind have a right to drive?


I'm going to go with "no" because driving is a privilege not a right...did I get it right?


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## sparky (May 14, 2019)

Frankeneinstein said:


> sparky said:
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yup

~S~


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## Tommy Tainant (May 14, 2019)

Markle said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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> > My heart tells me he has suffered enough. My head tells me that another kid will die next week.
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I dont know. That is my honest answer. Its about making an example of this man and that may save lives further down the line. But I can still feel his pain. If my negligence led to any of my kids dying I would top myself.


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## Markle (May 14, 2019)

Correll said:


> You want to punish an accident, to deter people from owning guns.
> 
> Not because the man deserves to be punished, but just to make an example.



It was not an accident that the father left the gun out.  That was intentional.  I feel certain that he did not intend any harm to his son, but he was in this habit and it killed his kid.

Yes, he deserves to be punished.


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## Markle (May 14, 2019)

sparky said:


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No one has a right to drive.


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## TheProgressivePatriot (May 14, 2019)

Correll said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
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What part of common sense gun laws and responsibility are  you unable to understand? . Where did I say anything about deterring people from owning guns.  ? This is the kind of horseshit that results in these tragedies happening over and over again.


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## Muhammed (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
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> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
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And you are celebrating. You're one sick piece of shit, scumbag


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## TheProgressivePatriot (May 14, 2019)

Papageorgio said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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Tell that shit to the parents and loved ones of those 485 accidental shooting victims and be ready to deal with the blow back. People, children die all sorts of ways. The issue is what can we do to minimize those deaths. How many of those 30k auto deaths were due to the lack of proper restraints, drugs, or distracted driving? Lots I would say.


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## TheProgressivePatriot (May 14, 2019)

TNHarley said:


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Name the gun safety legislation that the NRA has supported.


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## koshergrl (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
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> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
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The way you creep around looking for baby obituaries is way creepy. 

1-year-old injured during road rage shooting in Houston, Texas, police say


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## koshergrl (May 14, 2019)

Chicago Baby Dies After Shot 5 Times


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## idb (May 14, 2019)

Interest in child protection ends at birth.
Once you're out of the womb you're on your own.


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## Crepitus (May 14, 2019)

Correll said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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Prosecute an idiot who left a loaded gun where a toddler could reach it?

Fuck yes.


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## GWV5903 (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
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> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
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Your sadistic side is showing, you ruin any cred when you stoop so low, have some decency and ask a mod to delete the thread, your life must really suck, BAD!!


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## Godboy (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Life is cheap in the US.


Its still the greatest nation on earth, regardless of what you think. We rock and everyone knows it.


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## Markle (May 14, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> What part of common sense gun laws and responsibility are you unable to understand? . Where did I say anything about deterring people from owning guns. ? This is the kind of horseshit that results in these tragedies happening over and over again.



What "common sense gun law" would have prevented the death of that child?


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## JOSweetHeart (May 14, 2019)

Tipsycatlover said:


> What a tragic ACCIDENT.


No matter what name the occurrence is given, this kind of thing in my opinion happens way too often. When are people going to learn how to keep their dangerous things where their kids can not get to them?

God bless you always!!!

Holly


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## TheProgressivePatriot (May 14, 2019)

Markle said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
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> > What part of common sense gun laws and responsibility are you unable to understand? . Where did I say anything about deterring people from owning guns. ? This is the kind of horseshit that results in these tragedies happening over and over again.
> ...



Pay attention! A requirement that weapons be secured . It would not  guarantee anything but would go a long way in minimizing such things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Markle (May 14, 2019)

koshergrl said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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Go easy on Tommy Tainant.  He's an old Liberal who is frustrated beyond belief by how great things are going in our country.  He was praying for President Donald Trump and America to fail.  Instead, we are prospering beyond belief!


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## TNHarley (May 14, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


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Bump stocks


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## keepitreal (May 14, 2019)

MarcATL said:


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Prejudiced and biased statements...
That's the MarcATL way!


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## Markle (May 14, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


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Yep, that'll solve the problem!


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## Jitss617 (May 14, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
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> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
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Why do you still live here?


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## flacaltenn (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> What part of Mr Suns "god given rights" would be impinged by requiring him to buy a box to lock up his guns ?



What part of Mr. Sun's rights would be infringed by a govt demand for parents to house young children in a place without a pool?

It IS stupid parenting. I condemn him for not taking better caution..  Unless his house has been robbed several times in the past years.. Stupid parenting is not gonna cured by people with power designing your every move. Stupidity kills. A gun is one of a million ways that stupidity can get you..


What you want is ZERO RISK govt designed living.. Good luck with that. RISK is vital to life, prosperity and happiness....

RISK is actually the core difference between conservatives and liberals. Leftists have no concept of risk. In business or in life...


----------



## Tommy Tainant (May 15, 2019)

flacaltenn said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > What part of Mr Suns "god given rights" would be impinged by requiring him to buy a box to lock up his guns ?
> ...


Guns and stupid is a toxic combination. Ask Evan Sun (aged 4).


----------



## airplanemechanic (May 15, 2019)

Correll said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> ...



Worse, he wants to prosecute the gun. After all, guns kill people.

If liberals really cared about kids, they'd ban bicycles, cars and swimming pools as those are responsible for far more child deaths each year than guns.

But since most liberals own at least one of each of the above items they won't say a word. After all, pushing a political agenda, not protecting kids, is their main goal. The same party that is for post-birth abortion (baby murder) cannot morally claim to give a rats ass about children.


----------



## Correll (May 15, 2019)

Markle said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > You want to punish an accident, to deter people from owning guns.
> ...





We do not know that he was in such a habit, or that it was intentional.


----------



## Correll (May 15, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...




The part where, sometimes, when you libs are talking to each other, that you admit that your goal is total confiscation of all guns. 

And the part that your actions and your arguments, show no limiting factors, that would stop, with just, "common sense gun laws".


AND there is the fact that you liberals are generally dishonest about just about everything political. 


*AND*, I'm sure I'm forgetting some reasons to not trust you.


----------



## Dekster (May 15, 2019)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Dekster said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



Mo. the details are based on my literacy and the ability to read the article.  You should try it some time.


Cecilie1200 said:


> Dekster said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



A 4 year old was fatally shot in the head with his father's service revolver.  Those are all the details necessary to know that at least one of the parents was negligent.  I am sure up until this happened they were "responsible gun owners"


----------



## Blues Man (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...


I suppose the UK is completely free from fatal accidents involving children and their stupid parents

More children drown or die from falls or by being poisoned by household products and all these accidents have one thing in common

Negligent parents

So blame the parent not the gun

Maybe people should get a license to have children


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (May 15, 2019)

Correll said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


What a boatload of bovine excrement. Who EXACTLY called for the total confiscation of guns. You have  stop listening to those voices in your head,..... and Fox News


----------



## boedicca (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...




RIP the last shred of decency or integrity Tommy-T may have retained.  Exploiting the death of a child is an appalling low.


----------



## RealDave (May 15, 2019)

whitehall said:


> To paraphrase a prominent democrat, "never let a tragedy go to waste if you can turn it into a political issue". Let the system work and the family grieve before y'all (foreign) vultures pounce on the body.


 To paraphrase the moron right.  Ignore it & ot will go awa=y.

As the NRA spoon fed asshats keep claiming gun owners are responsible & we can trust them with loaded guns.


----------



## RealDave (May 15, 2019)

boedicca said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> ...



Ignoring the death of a child is appalling.  

Seeing kids get gunned down while you asshats fight change is appalling.


----------



## boedicca (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...




He's only posting this to trash America - which is disgusting exploitations.  I do grok, however, why you dig it.


----------



## Papageorgio (May 15, 2019)

Not sure where Tommy resides Wales, Ireland, or there somewhere guess it doesn't matter, where ever it is there is nothing in that country that would make headlines in this country. Truth is where ever he is from, their news doesn't matter to us or even to him, it gets no mention in the United States. So Tommy, trying to stay relevant in an irrelevant country has to attack the United States verbally. Our lives don't really matter to him, our children don't really matter to him, just smearing the United States is all that matters to him, just as he smears England all the time. He is a small nation wannabe, and in the end, his opinion doesn't matter to the United States.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (May 15, 2019)

airplanemechanic said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


More bleating and blathering about how we want to ban all guns. That is really just dishonest, hysterical horseshit,

It's about safety. It's about doing what can be done to minimize the loss of life

Kids are required to wear helmets riding a bike

Adults are required to have a drivers license and be sober to drive

Swimming pools have to be fenced in

AND GUNS SHOULD BE LOCKED UP AND KEPT OUT OF THE HANDS OF THOSE WHO SHOULD NOT HAVE THEM

Yes Bubba, it is really that simple.


----------



## Papageorgio (May 15, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> airplanemechanic said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



They need to prosecute the person that left the gun out and made it available for a four year old to use. I don't own a gun, but I think everyone has a right to have them if they choose, however there is a responsibility for them to make sure they don't get into the wrong hands.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> No drugs, no violent movies, no broken homes, no gang members.
> No consequences either. Life is cheap in the US.


Nice appeal to emotion fallacy you have there.
Fact: accidents happen.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 15, 2019)

Papageorgio said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > What part of Mr Suns "god given rights" would be impinged by requiring him to buy a box to lock up his guns ?
> ...


Specifically, what would you charge him for, and how is he guilty of it?


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> What part of Mr Suns "god given rights" would be impinged by requiring him to buy a box to lock up his guns ?


A legal requirement for a gun owner to secure his firearms violates the US constitution.
.


----------



## deanrd (May 15, 2019)

A fetus can’t grab a gun. As long as it’s just a little kid, Republicans don’t care.


----------



## Likkmee (May 15, 2019)

Dekster said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> ...


Now there is zero question that dad was and is an idiot.....long before the little guy was conceived.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 15, 2019)

deanrd said:


> A fetus can’t grab a gun. As long as it’s just a little kid, Republicans don’t care.


Said no reasoned, rational person, ever.


----------



## Polishprince (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...




Unfortunately, the idea of Mandatory Gun Safety classes has been blocked by the liberals.   They should definitely be a required part of the curriculum from Nursery School all the way up through the Penitentiary Level.


----------



## my2¢ (May 15, 2019)

Yes, accidents will happen but I view these irresponsible gun owners as no different than drunk drivers and both should face similar punishment for the accidents they cause.


----------



## boedicca (May 15, 2019)

deanrd said:


> A fetus can’t grab a gun. As long as it’s just a little kid, Republicans don’t care.




A fetus can't grab the medical equipment to abort itself either, bub.   All Fetii clearly don't matter to you.


----------



## Markle (May 15, 2019)

Correll said:


> We do not know that he [the officer] was in such a habit, or that it was intentional.



I'm not saying it was intentional in that he wanted the child to shoot himself, but intentional where and how he left the gun.  The officer that it was safe.  I don't believe the officer realized the child was growing and could reach and handle things he could not months before.


----------



## Markle (May 15, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> What a boatload of bovine excrement. Who EXACTLY called for the total confiscation of guns. You have stop listening to those voices in your head,..... and Fox News



*Must See: 5 Specific Times Democrats Wanted To Confiscate Your Guns*
Archives
By Rusty | Featured Contributor
The New York Times created quite a stir recently when they ran a front page op-ed – the first of its kind since 1920 – endorsing the mass confiscation of firearms from everyone in America.

The notion that far-left, Second Amendment-hating hacks would endorse the wholly unconstitutional confiscation of guns is no surprise. After all, a large part of President Barack Obama’s focus has been to demonize guns and gun owners, calling for barely-disguised infringements on our liberty.

But it IS dangerous, and we must take these threats to our liberty seriously.

As a reminder, here are 5 times that prominent Democrats have advocated taking away your Constitutional rights:

Must See: 5 Specific Times Democrats Wanted To Confiscate Your Guns


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (May 15, 2019)

M14 Shooter said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> ...


Accidents are often preventable, as was this one.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 15, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


Why did this one happen?


----------



## Markle (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Ignoring the death of a child is appalling.
> 
> Seeing kids get gunned down while you asshats fight change is appalling.



Yes, it is appalling!

3 children killed in crossfire amid Chicago violence

https://maggionews.com/category/children-shot-killed-in-chicago/

9-year-old Tyshawn Lee fatally shot: 'He was going to make me real proud'


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (May 15, 2019)

M14 Shooter said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > M14 Shooter said:
> ...


You know why it happened. The gun was left in reach of the kid. The other question is why there were no legal consequences?


----------



## Markle (May 15, 2019)

M14 Shooter said:


> Specifically, what would you charge him for, and how is he guilty of it?



Criminal negligence.

Involuntary manslaughter


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 15, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> You know why it happened. The gun was left in reach of the kid.


Any why did -that- happen?


> The other question is why there were no legal consequences?


I asked you what crime you;d charge the father with and for you to demonstrate how he is guilty of same.
You did not respond.


----------



## RealDave (May 15, 2019)

Markle said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Ignoring the death of a child is appalling.
> ...



Gang warfare & it is appalling when children get gunned down.  

There are constant efforts being made to reduce the violence. 

Children getting guns because their parents are irresponsible is being ignored.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 15, 2019)

Markle said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > Specifically, what would you charge him for, and how is he guilty of it?
> ...


What are the specifics of these crimes and how is guilty of same?


----------



## Markle (May 15, 2019)

deanrd said:


> A fetus can’t grab a gun. As long as it’s just a little kid, Republicans don’t care.



That's a shame.  There would be a lot fewer abortions!


----------



## RetiredGySgt (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...


600 million firearms in private hands less then 500 accidental shooting deaths a year........


----------



## Markle (May 15, 2019)

M14 Shooter said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > M14 Shooter said:
> ...



*Criminal Negligence*
_The failure to use reasonable care to avoid consequences that threaten or harm the safety of the public and that arethe foreseeable outcome of acting in a particular manner._

*manslaughter*
[ man-slaw-ter ]
*noun*
Law . the unlawful killing of a human being without malice aforethought.
the killing of a human being by another; homicide.


----------



## RealDave (May 15, 2019)

Markle said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > What a boatload of bovine excrement. Who EXACTLY called for the total confiscation of guns. You have stop listening to those voices in your head,..... and Fox News
> ...



Talking about banning certain models Or making background checks, etc is just  too much forr you Spoon fed NRA asshats. to handle"  OMG OMG OMG They're talking our guns!!!!! OMG OMG OMG"


----------



## RealDave (May 15, 2019)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> ...



What's a couple kids.  My God, what if you can't tote your security blank everywhere you go.  Poor baby.

Or what if you can't have that AR-15.  What fun would getting all beerrec & shoot bottle be then.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 15, 2019)

Markle said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


Those aren't the definitions of the terms according to Ohio law.

* 2903.04 Involuntary manslaughter.*
A) No person shall cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another's pregnancy* as a proximate result of the offender's committing or attempting to commit a felony. *
(B) No person shall cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another's pregnancy *as a proximate result of the offender's committing or attempting to commit a misdemeanor of any degree, a regulatory offense, or a minor misdemeanor other than a violation of any section contained in Title XLV of the Revised Code that is a minor misdemeanor*
Lawriter - ORC -     2903.04     Involuntary manslaughter.

How is the father guilty of involuntary manslaughter?


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (May 15, 2019)

Markle said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > What a boatload of bovine excrement. Who EXACTLY called for the total confiscation of guns. You have stop listening to those voices in your head,..... and Fox News
> ...


Thank you. I stand corrected. But I will add that these are extreme positions and  most gun control advocates are screaming for  confiscation


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Talking about banning certain models Or making background checks, etc is just  too much forr you Spoon fed NRA asshats. to handle"  OMG OMG OMG They're talking our guns!!!!! OMG OMG OMG"


There's no reason for anyone to believe you anti-gun loons with stop with 'assault weapons'.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (May 15, 2019)

M14 Shooter said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > You know why it happened. The gun was left in reach of the kid.
> ...


Early on I stated that if there was a COMMON SENSE law on the book requiring guns to be secured he COULD HAVE been charged with violating that law.


----------



## Markle (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Gang warfare & it is appalling when children get gunned down.
> 
> There are constant efforts being made to reduce the violence.
> 
> Children getting guns because their parents are irresponsible is being ignored.



What "efforts are being made to reduce the violence"?

Is "children getting guns because their parents are responsible" a major problem?


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 15, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Early on I stated that if there was a COMMON SENSE law on the book requiring guns to be secured he COULD HAVE been charged with violating that law.


Any legal requirement for a gun owner to secure his firearms violates the Constitution.
So now what?


----------



## Markle (May 15, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Thank you. I stand corrected. But I will add that these are extreme positions and most gun control advocates are screaming for confiscation



Good to see that you agree that "most gun control advocates are screaming for confiscation", which is in direct opposition to our Constitution.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (May 15, 2019)

M14 Shooter said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Early on I stated that if there was a COMMON SENSE law on the book requiring guns to be secured he COULD HAVE been charged with violating that law.
> ...


That  is your personal opinion. States and cities have passed such laws . Do you think that all forms of gun control are unconstitutional? If so on what basis?


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 15, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...


No. It is a fact of law, as ruled by the USSC in 2008.
_
The handgun ban and* the trigger-lock requirement (as applied to self-defense) violate the Second Amendment* . The District’s total ban on handgun possession in the home amounts to a prohibition on an entire class of “arms” that Americans overwhelmingly choose for the lawful purpose of self-defense. Under any of the standards of scrutiny the Court has applied to enumerated constitutional rights, this prohibition—in the place where the importance of the lawful defense of self, family, and property is most acute—would fail constitutional muster. _*Similarly, the requirement that any lawful firearm in the home be disassembled or bound by a trigger lock makes it impossible for citizens to use arms for the core lawful purpose of self-defense and is hence unconstitutional.*
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA v. HELLER

Thus:
Any legal requirement for a gun owner to secure his firearms violates the Constitution.
So now what?


----------



## Likkmee (May 15, 2019)

You got it M14. The punk with the badge needs some Vaseline and a cell stay.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (May 15, 2019)

Markle said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you. I stand corrected. But I will add that these are extreme positions and most gun control advocates are screaming for confiscation
> ...


TYPO They are NOT...….


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



BS.  This is about you feeling smug and self-righteousness in your judgementalism, AND about waving dead children around like a bloody battle flag for your political agenda.

You don't give a rat's ass about the kid, or about the parents' pain.  If that kid had drowned in the backyard swimming pool, you'd never know or care that he had existed.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 15, 2019)

Markle said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > You want to punish an accident, to deter people from owning guns.
> ...



It was not an accident?  He was in this habit?  How do you know this?  Are you acquainted with the family?  Was this in the last paragraph of the article and I missed it?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 15, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...



They were responsible for the first laws requiring a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

They backed legislation adding an additional 5 years sentencing for crimes involving a gun.

They backed legislation making gun sales records available to the police.

They helped write both the 1934 National Firearms Act and the 1938 Gun Control Act.

They backed the Gun Control Act of 1968, although they balked at the idea of a national registry being included in it.

Yet another thing you were confident you "knew" that wasn't actually so.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 15, 2019)

Crepitus said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



Assume you know what happened and how based on your prejudices?  Apparently, THAT is the biggest "fuck yes" with you.


----------



## airplanemechanic (May 15, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> airplanemechanic said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Is it?

Cory Booker wants to ban all guns.

Flashback: Cory Booker Says He Would Ban Guns If He ‘Had The Power’

It's not considered "hysterical" when a democratic candidate for president wants to ban all guns and would do that if he could.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 15, 2019)

JOSweetHeart said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> > What a tragic ACCIDENT.
> ...



Probably around the time that people learn not to make judgements based on their assumptions.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 15, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...



Pay attention!  Do you really think that any parent is going to go, "Oh, it did not occur to me to keep dangerous objects away from my child, but now that you have passed a law, I realize it"?

YOU probably need the government to tell you every thought you should ever have, but it doesn't actually work that way for most people.  They either figure it out from common sense, or they don't care enough to care about your precious government directives, either.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 15, 2019)

Markle said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



I agree with your description, but I'm a little shaky on why this means anyone should go easy on Taint.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair (May 15, 2019)

So if a four year old died because mommy left the cap off her medicine and the colorful capsules looked like candy to a child we wouldn't see the crocodile tears and b.s. displays of sorrow and sadness because there is no political payoff in just another juvenile accidental death unless it is gun related.

You can bet this Welsh piece of pig dung would not be wasting his time on this thread if it didn't fit his political agenda.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



Stupid and the Internet is a toxic combination.  Just read Taint (mental age 2).


----------



## Tommy Tainant (May 15, 2019)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...


And some people can discuss the issue whilst some only have personal attacks to illustrate their lack of intelligence.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> ...whilst some only have personal attacks to illustrate their lack of intelligence.


This is common, to the point of universality, among the anti gun left.  Good of you to admit it.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 15, 2019)

Dekster said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Dekster said:
> ...



I just heard, "I assume that children NEVER have accidents without their parents being horrible, because passing judgement makes me feel superior."

There's a big difference between "reading" and "reading into".  You should investigate it sometime.  Of course, it might cut into your busy self-righteousness schedule.


----------



## RealDave (May 15, 2019)

Markle said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Gang warfare & it is appalling when children get gunned down.
> ...


 So, you think gang violence is ignored in Chicago?  They don't have gang task forces, more cops on the street?



Responsible gun owners don't leave loaded guns where children can get them.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



Some people want to pretend their nastiness is "discussion" so they can act like shocked victims when they get the same back.

And you are about as qualified to denigrate the intelligence of others as you are to denigrate their morality, Taint.  You should be grateful we let you claim to be _homo sapien_.

If you intend to keep presenting your appalling self-righteous ignorance as though we should take it seriously, I intend to continue pointing out how deficient you are.


----------



## RealDave (May 15, 2019)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Dekster said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Leaving out a loaded gun is not an accident.

"I accidentally went 90 mph while drunk & killed people?"


----------



## RealDave (May 15, 2019)

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> So if a four year old died because mommy left the cap off her medicine and the colorful capsules looked like candy to a child we wouldn't see the crocodile tears and b.s. displays of sorrow and sadness because there is no political payoff in just another juvenile accidental death unless it is gun related.
> 
> You can bet this Welsh piece of pig dung would not be wasting his time on this thread if it didn't fit his political agenda.


 First of all, the medicine was serving a purpose.


----------



## westwall (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...







Cheap in the UK too.  

*Killed in 2019: The UK's first 100 victims*







Killed in 2019: The UK's first 100 victims


----------



## RealDave (May 15, 2019)

Cecilie1200 said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > TNHarley said:
> ...


 A lot of those go back to when the NRA was about gun safety.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> First of all, the medicine was serving a purpose.


Second of all, so do guns.


----------



## RealDave (May 15, 2019)

Markle said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you. I stand corrected. But I will add that these are extreme positions and most gun control advocates are screaming for confiscation
> ...


Sorry, but the Constitution means nothing to Trumpettes anymore.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair (May 15, 2019)

westwall said:


> Cheap in the UK too.


Where is the call to do away with knives in the UK? These fucking hypocrites should make sure their home is clean before pointing a finger at others. But some of them are just too dishonest and stupid.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...



The father is a police officer. Do police officers in the UK not have guns? MarcATL is an idiot.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...


You mean it never meant anything to the anti-gun loons.
Glad I could fix that for you.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


Using your logic since there are 40000 deaths a year to vehicle accidents private ownership should be outlawed, I mean why do you need a car when the State can provide a Bus?


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Sorry, but the Constitution means nothing to Trumpettes anymore.


Sorry but your hopelessly biased opinion is not in any way fact.


----------



## Papageorgio (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



So you saying "guns and stupid is a toxic combination" is discussing the issue? Sounds like a tagline to me.


----------



## Papageorgio (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> > So if a four year old died because mommy left the cap off her medicine and the colorful capsules looked like candy to a child we wouldn't see the crocodile tears and b.s. displays of sorrow and sadness because there is no political payoff in just another juvenile accidental death unless it is gun related.
> ...



We say, do, buy and collect for a purpose. It was the fathers service pistol, so there was a purpose. It should have been put away. To me it seems like negligence, so we shall see.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Dekster said:
> ...



Unless you were peeking in that family's windows - which I wouldn't put past a low-life skeeve like you - you don't know anyone "left out a loaded gun".  You ASSumed it, based on what you "know" - aka projected.

Since I realize that both facts and mature self-restraint are alien to your very existence, let me explain.

All anyone actually KNOWS - knows for a fact, not "is sure of because of imagination" - is that early in the morning, the toddler got hold of a gun, shot himself, made it to a hospital, and then died.  Oh, and we also know that the cops are investigating to determine how the incident happened.  If THEY can't state for certain what the circumstances were yet, your dumb sanctimonious ass can't, either.

The only thing more appalling than the number of people on both sides of the aisle who feel perfectly okay sitting in judgement on perfect strangers based on an Internet news article is the number of those people who are utterly bewildered by the concept when someone suggests they might want to wait for more facts before forming the lynch mob.

Every damned one of you who got a cheap morality thrill out of condemning these people less than a day after the incident based on what you're "sure" happened should be ashamed of yourselves.


----------



## Markle (May 15, 2019)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



I kinda feel sorry for him.  From his comments, he's kind of old, feeble, and obviously a bit senile.


----------



## Markle (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> So, you think gang violence is ignored in Chicago? They don't have gang task forces, more cops on the street?



Has Chicago, declaring themselves a Sanctuary City helped or hindered their gang problem?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> > So if a four year old died because mommy left the cap off her medicine and the colorful capsules looked like candy to a child we wouldn't see the crocodile tears and b.s. displays of sorrow and sadness because there is no political payoff in just another juvenile accidental death unless it is gun related.
> ...



Given that the father is a State Trooper, the gun was serving a purpose as well.   Duuuuuh, Assfuck Dave.


----------



## Soupnazi630 (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...


Because no kids have been run over by cars or stabbed in the fascist UK?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...



A lot of these go back to when leftists didn't exist to pretend that "gun safety" meant "gun banning".


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...



Sorry, but nothing means anything to leftists other than political agenda.


----------



## Markle (May 15, 2019)

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Cheap in the UK too.
> ...



Funny you should ask.

*After Knife Ban in UK, Fatal Stabbings Are Through the Roof*
https://www.nratv.com/videos/relentless-after-knife-ban-in-united-kingdom-fatal-stabbings-are-through-the-roof


----------



## caddo kid (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...




4 year old kid killed by his trooper parent's employment issued firearm

That looks like shit on paper


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair (May 15, 2019)

Markle said:


> Funny you should ask.
> 
> *After Knife Ban in UK, Fatal Stabbings Are Through the Roof*
> https://www.nratv.com/videos/relentless-after-knife-ban-in-united-kingdom-fatal-stabbings-are-through-the-roof


So for some limey bitch to complain about gun deaths in the US while his beloved UK is going down a similar path, albeit with knives instead of guns, is just absurd and totally lacking in self awareness.


----------



## Tommy Tainant (May 15, 2019)

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > Funny you should ask.
> ...


Our murder rates are a fraction of those in the US. Guns or knives. But this is about an "accidental" death not a murder. Your gun culture is the real villain here , just as much as the negligent parent.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Your gun culture is the real villain here , just as much as the negligent parent.


The parent is a police officer and the gun used in the shooting was his service weapon  - how does the "gun culture" - whatever that is - play into it?


----------



## RealDave (May 15, 2019)

Cecilie1200 said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


 Sorry, but Trumpettes  think it is more important to be able to get beered up & shoot bottles with AR-15s than the lives of chuidren


----------



## RealDave (May 15, 2019)

M14 Shooter said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Your gun culture is the real villain here , just as much as the negligent parent.
> ...


So if trained officers do this, what does that mean for the millions of amateurs running around with loaded weapons?


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Our murder rates are a fraction of those in the US. Guns or knives. But this is about an "accidental" death not a murder. Your gun culture is the real villain here , just as much as the negligent parent.


A child can die from an accidental overdose just as well as from an accidental shooting. Or any other sort of accident, for 
that matter. 
So unless you can demonstrate how one accident is more evil and intentional than another it seems you are just blowing smoke out your back side.

And it's interesting to note how you yourself have determined parental negligence before anyone else has. Tell everyone how you came to your conclusion.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...


Something else conservatives don't care about.


----------



## Oddball (May 15, 2019)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> ...


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


Given the number of children killed in gun accidents each year?
The number approaches statistical zero, so... nothing.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 15, 2019)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> ...


Says the mindless partisan bigot.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 15, 2019)

Markle said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...



When they proudly present their feebleness and senility as intelligence and moral superiority, my pity vanishes.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...



Sorry, but no one at all thinks it's important to treat your fever dreams as reality.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



Do what, precisely?  What is it you personally saw this officer do with your own eyes as you lurked outside his window, perv?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 15, 2019)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> ...



Your opinion?  You are correct; we DON'T care about that.


----------



## 2aguy (May 15, 2019)

sparky said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...




Not my case to make....that anti-gunners tell us that kids are accidentally killed by guns, therefore all guns must be banned.   Therefore, if kids are accidentally killed by cars, which they are in greater numbers than guns, then cars must be banned...according to their logic.


----------



## 2aguy (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...




Hey....moron.......since cars kill more children than guns do, according to your post, that means you put the ability to drive a race car over the lives of children....you twit.


----------



## 2aguy (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...




It means there are over 600 million guns in private hands.....and in 2017 there were 62 accidental guns deaths......what does that mean for your stupid post?

There were 1,208 children killed by cars in the same year....

62 accidental gun deaths of children with guns......1,208 accidental deaths of children with cars....

We must ban cars...far deadlier to children than guns...


----------



## RetiredGySgt (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


Again MORON less then 500 accidental shooting deaths a year and Most of those are adults.


----------



## 2aguy (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...




Moron.....you have guns in the U.K......this guy was a cop, not a civilian.  

We have over 600 million guns in private hands and a grand total of 62 accidental child deaths in 2017 with the majority of those happening in the homes of criminals who are already banned from buying, owning or  carrying guns.....

Meanwhile, we had 1,208 deaths from cars for children....we really need to ban cars...can you see that that number is way, way higher than 62.....you twit.


----------



## Tommy Tainant (May 15, 2019)

Its striking that all these "pro lifers" dont give a fuck about Evan Sun. It seems that Evan , and others, is "just a statistic" and "insignificant".

Perhaps one of these recidivists could suggest one thing which may have helped to protect this child and may prevent next weeks tragedy. Just one.


----------



## Tommy Tainant (May 15, 2019)

2aguy said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Eric Arthur Blair said:
> ...


Cars have uses you clown.


----------



## 2aguy (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...




As do guns you asshat....Americans use theirs to stop crime 1.1 million times a year, according to our Centers for Disease Control....

1.1 million lives saved vs 62 accidental deaths...

Can you tell which number is bigger?   You can even use the metric system if you want.


----------



## toobfreak (May 15, 2019)

2aguy said:


> sparky said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...



If these accidents happen, it is mostly because they have so removed people from firearms that they no longer get the training and respect for them growing up like people used to.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Its striking that all these "pro lifers" dont give a fuck about Evan Sun. It seems that Evan , and others, is "just a statistic" and "insignificant".
> 
> Perhaps one of these recidivists could suggest one thing which may have helped to protect this child and may prevent next weeks tragedy. Just one.


Again RETARD you don't punish 200 million law abiding citizens because one broke the law. Nor do you punish them because one made a mistake.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


There is absolutely no reason individuals need to own cars since they cause so much death and destruction, one can simply ride the bus or a train.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Its striking that all these "pro lifers" dont give a fuck about Evan Sun. It seems that Evan , and others, is "just a statistic" and "insignificant".
> Perhaps one of these recidivists could suggest one thing which may have helped to protect this child and may prevent next weeks tragedy. Just one.


Don't let police officers have guns.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Cars have uses you clown.


So do guns, smegma breath.


----------



## Markle (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Cars have uses you clown.



As do guns.  Thank you.


----------



## Crepitus (May 15, 2019)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


It's pretty clearly laid out that the kid found an unsecured gun and shot himself accidentally.

Somebody had to leave it where it could be reached.

Are you trying to say that was OK?


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...




Lol

Shit happens, no amount of frivolous gun control laws would’ve changed what happen you fat sack of shit.


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


Lol
Here you go fuck face

*Accident Statistics*
Injuries are a major source of childhood emergency department and hospital admissions. The most recent accident statistics from the National Safety Council, the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, and other sources tell us that:


Injury is the leading cause of death in children and young adults. According to the CDC, approximately 12,000 children and young adults, ages 1 to 19 years, die from unintentional injuries each year.


Falls are the leading cause of nonfatal injury for children. Children ages 19 and under account for about 8,000 fall-related visits to hospital emergency rooms every day.


Each year about 100 children are killed and 254,000 are injured as a result of bicycle-related accidents. 


Drowning is the leading cause of unintentional injury-related death among children ages 1 to 4. The majority of drownings and near-drownings occur in residential swimming pools and in open water sites.  However, children can drown in as little as one inch of water.


Airway obstruction injury (suffocation) is the leading cause of unintentional injury-related death among infants under age 1.


Each year, about 2,000 children ages 14 and under die as a result of a home injury. Unintentional home injury deaths to children are caused primarily by fire and burns, suffocation, drowning, firearms, falls, choking, and poisoning.


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

Crepitus said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Crepitus said:
> ...


A new study has unveiled a deadly threat hiding in your home.

Every 17 minutes, a piece of furniture, TV or appliance tipping over causes an injury in the U.S., according to information provided to _Consumer Reports (CR)_ by the Consumer Product Safety Commission. A total of 195 deaths caused by tip-overs were reported between 2000-2016.

The outlet’s most disturbing findings however, relate to tip-overs and children: a child is killed by a falling piece of furniture in the U.S. every two weeks. In 2016, 2,800 incidents of injuries to children were reported — a 33% increase from 2015.

*Accident Statistics*
Injuries are a major source of childhood emergency department and hospital admissions. The most recent accident statistics from the National Safety Council, the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, and other sources tell us that:


Injury is the leading cause of death in children and young adults. According to the CDC, approximately 12,000 children and young adults, ages 1 to 19 years, die from unintentional injuries each year.


Falls are the leading cause of nonfatal injury for children. Children ages 19 and under account for about 8,000 fall-related visits to hospital emergency rooms every day.


Each year about 100 children are killed and 254,000 are injured as a result of bicycle-related accidents. 


Drowning is the leading cause of unintentional injury-related death among children ages 1 to 4. The majority of drownings and near-drownings occur in residential swimming pools and in open water sites.  However, children can drown in as little as one inch of water.


Airway obstruction injury (suffocation) is the leading cause of unintentional injury-related death among infants under age 1.


Each year, about 2,000 children ages 14 and under die as a result of a home injury. Unintentional home injury deaths to children are caused primarily by fire and burns, suffocation, drowning, firearms, falls, choking, and poisoning.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Cars have uses you clown.


A car has one use only....transport.
A gun has at least two....self protection and hunting (target and sport shooting if you want to add those also).


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


A new study has unveiled a deadly threat hiding in your home.

Every 17 minutes, a piece of furniture, TV or appliance tipping over causes an injury in the U.S., according to information provided to _Consumer Reports (CR)_ by the Consumer Product Safety Commission. A total of 195 deaths caused by tip-overs were reported between 2000-2016.

The outlet’s most disturbing findings however, relate to tip-overs and children: a child is killed by a falling piece of furniture in the U.S. every two weeks. In 2016, 2,800 incidents of injuries to children were reported — a 33% increase from 2015.


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

mdk said:


> Using a dead child to score political points. How ghoulish.


Lol
It’s the political correct thing to do...


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (May 15, 2019)

Rustic said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


And your point is what exactly? That the relatively small number of children that die from guns are just a drop in the bucket and are expendable. ?? That there is no point in trying to protect them?  Tell that to the parents fuck face.


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...


Lol 
Fucked up politically correct people like yourself need to mind your own business...


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


Lol
More frivolous gun control laws will not save a single soul... fact


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...


Lol
Progressives have no common sense, so they have no idea of what real firearm safety is...


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

idb said:


> Interest in child protection ends at birth.
> Once you're out of the womb you're on your own.


Lol
The collective obviously tells you what to do and think...


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (May 15, 2019)

Again the dad is a police officer


----------



## Wry Catcher (May 15, 2019)

whitehall said:


> To paraphrase a prominent democrat, "never let a tragedy go to waste if you can turn it into a political issue". Let the system work and the family grieve before y'all (foreign) vultures pounce on the body.



You don't seem to have anything original to post; apparently your only concern is one more notch in the NRA's gun might spoil your fun with a gun.

Gun control includes gun locks, gun safes and common sense.


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...


Lol
No amount of frivolous gun control laws though up by progressives like yourself will save a single soul… Fact

A new study has unveiled a deadly threat hiding in your home.

Every 17 minutes, a piece of furniture, TV or appliance tipping over causes an injury in the U.S., according to information provided to _Consumer Reports (CR)_ by the Consumer Product Safety Commission. A total of 195 deaths caused by tip-overs were reported between 2000-2016.

The outlet’s most disturbing findings however, relate to tip-overs and children: a child is killed by a falling piece of furniture in the U.S. every two weeks. In 2016, 2,800 incidents of injuries to children were reported — a 33% increase from 2015.


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

Crepitus said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


Lol
Sure, Don’t blame the firearms, I don’t punish people they have nothing to do with the accident by trying to take away their firearms fuck face


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...


Lol
Stay out of peoples personal lives fuck face


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

Wry Catcher said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > To paraphrase a prominent democrat, "never let a tragedy go to waste if you can turn it into a political issue". Let the system work and the family grieve before y'all (foreign) vultures pounce on the body.
> ...


Lol
Someone else’s firearm ownership is none of your fucking business. So shut the fuck up


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...


Lol
Gun control has never been about firearms, it’s all about control


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> airplanemechanic said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


Lol
Kids are not required to wear helmets riding a bike, that’s a ridiculous idea and anyone that thinks it’s justified should be slapped over and over again for being fucking retarded.

Vehicle ownership is irrelevant

It depends on the state whether swimming pools have to be fenced in, and no one has a right to swimming pools, bikes and vehicles. Firearm ownership is an absolute right, right up to the point someone fucks it up for themselves.

You need to stay the fuck out of people’s personal lives… Weasel boy


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (May 15, 2019)

Rustic said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...


Thank you for  admitting that you think that young  gun violence victims are  dispensable


----------



## Crepitus (May 15, 2019)

Rustic said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


So you're OK with it then?


----------



## Crepitus (May 15, 2019)

Rustic said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


Tell you what, you start leaving a rip-saw plugged in on the couch for your kids to.find.


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


Lol
No amount of frivolous gun control laws will save a single soul you fucking retard


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

Crepitus said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > Crepitus said:
> ...


Lol
More frivolous gun control laws will not save a single soul… Fact


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

Crepitus said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > Crepitus said:
> ...


Rip saw?
Lol
No one has a right to a ripsaw whatever that is. Firearm ownership is an absolute right right up to the point someone fucks it up for themselves.


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...


Lol
You need to stay out of peoples personal lives weasel boy


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...


Lol
Progressives never can be trusted, gun control has never been about firearms, it’s all about control


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


Lol
Ar15’s and the like are just sporting rifles, the least of this nations worries


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...


Lol
Progressives have no common sense


----------



## Crepitus (May 15, 2019)

Rustic said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...


Deflection noted.

I ask again: so you're ok with it then?


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


Lol
Stay the fuck out of people’s personal lives, firearm ownership is the individuals business and only the individuals business. You fat sack of shit


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Dekster said:
> ...


Irrelevant


----------



## Crepitus (May 15, 2019)

Rustic said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...


Republicans, pro-birth anti-life.


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...


Lol
Someone else’s firearm ownership is none of your fucking business


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

Crepitus said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > Crepitus said:
> ...


Lol
Someone else’s firearm ownership is none of my fucking business, None of your business, and certainly none of the federal governments business.


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

Crepitus said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > Crepitus said:
> ...


Lol
You just can’t stand anyone thinking different than you and your collective...


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

caddo kid said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> ...


Lol
That damn four old is near the wood chipper again!!!!!!


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...


Lol
Gun control has never been about firearms, it’s always been about control


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Its striking that all these "pro lifers" dont give a fuck about Evan Sun. It seems that Evan , and others, is "just a statistic" and "insignificant".
> 
> Perhaps one of these recidivists could suggest one thing which may have helped to protect this child and may prevent next weeks tragedy. Just one.


----------



## Rustic (May 15, 2019)

Crepitus said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Crepitus said:
> ...


----------



## Markle (May 15, 2019)

Crepitus said:


> Deflection noted.
> 
> I ask again: so you're ok with it then?



You're okay with this, I'm okay with one kid killing himself by an errant gun.

Planned Parenthood released its latest annual report for the 2017-2018 fiscal year over the weekend. The report reveals that the organization performed more abortions in 2018 than in any year since 2011. That's 332,757abortions in 2018 alone.

How many survived the abortion and were left to die?


----------



## Crepitus (May 15, 2019)

Rustic said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...


You have no 8dea what you're talking about do you.  You just spout the party line like a good little conservitard.


----------



## flacaltenn (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



Voting and stupid is ALSO a deadly toxic combo.. We want to have an analogy/meme contest?  Is that your limit of discussion?


----------



## flacaltenn (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



And some people can just never get past being emotional about a meme they invented instead of actually understanding the context and ranking of the issue in the bigger scheme of things..


----------



## flacaltenn (May 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Dekster said:
> ...



This is true when you have children and guests. But even GOOD people "go 90mph and kill people"

You can impaired by intoxication, lack of sleep, depression, mourning and drop your defenses... People leave the cellar door open sometimes when toddlers are around. Those would be accidents..


----------



## Uncensored2008 (May 15, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...



Why would you care? You hate Kafir to begin with, and particularly American infidels.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (May 16, 2019)

Yet another gun thread with nothing but deflections and lies from the right, and as usual no viable solutions.


----------



## Papageorgio (May 16, 2019)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Yet another gun thread with nothing but deflections and lies from the right, and as usual no viable solutions.



Yet another post from Clayton that add nothing to the conversation.


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## airplanemechanic (May 16, 2019)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Yet another gun thread with nothing but deflections and lies from the right, and as usual no viable solutions that don't include total gun bans like we all on the left want.



There, fixed it for ya.


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## M14 Shooter (May 16, 2019)

Wry Catcher said:


> Gun control includes gun locks, gun safes and common sense.


How are you unaware of the fact a legal requirement for a gun owner to secure his firearms violates the constitution?


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 16, 2019)

Crepitus said:


> You have no 8dea what you're talking about do you.  You just spout the party line like a good little conservitard.


^^^
Never will there be a better example of irony.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 16, 2019)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Yet another gun thread with nothing but deflections and lies from the right, and as usual no viable solutions.


Says he who did not add anything meaningful to the conversation, due to an absence of ability.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 16, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Early on I stated that if there was a COMMON SENSE law on the book requiring guns to be secured he COULD HAVE been charged with violating that law.


How are you unaware of the fact a legal requirement for a gun owner to secure his firearms violates the constitution?


----------



## Tommy Tainant (May 16, 2019)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Yet another gun thread with nothing but deflections and lies from the right, and as usual no viable solutions.


This thread seems to have agitated them a bit. Is it possible that deep down they have some decency and know that it is wrong ?


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair (May 16, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> This thread seems to have agitated them a bit. Is it possible that deep down they have some decency and know that it is wrong ?


It's more likely the thread is a simple minded exercise in scapegoating. A single accidental shooting no more condemns all guns than a bus accident means all buses are evil.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 16, 2019)

Crepitus said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Crepitus said:
> ...



Really?  It's clearly laid out?  Because the article I read laid out that the police are investigating how the kid got the gun, which would mean it's NOT "clearly laid out" how it happened.  Sounds to me like you read something else, like your own biases.

And where have I said "It was okay"?  Is that another point where you're reading what you want to be said, rather than what was actually said?  Yeah, I think so.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (May 16, 2019)

M14 Shooter said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Early on I stated that if there was a COMMON SENSE law on the book requiring guns to be secured he COULD HAVE been charged with violating that law.
> ...


Maybe because I don't have a gun fetish


----------



## Oddball (May 16, 2019)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Yet another gun thread with nothing but deflections and lies from the right, and as usual no viable solutions.


Here's a solution....STFU.


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## Blues Man (May 16, 2019)

M14 Shooter said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


Negligent homicide at least


----------



## Blues Man (May 16, 2019)

M14 Shooter said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > What part of Mr Suns "god given rights" would be impinged by requiring him to buy a box to lock up his guns ?
> ...



That still doesn't abrogate his responsibility in this matter


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 16, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...



Thank you for admitting that you were going to say the same thing, no matter what anyone else said.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 16, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...


Well, I am glad I could help you with your ignorance.
I am sure I could help more, but  I suspect most of that ignorance is willful.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 16, 2019)

Blues Man said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


In Ohio:

* 2903.05 Negligent homicide.*
(A) No person shall negligently cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another's pregnancy by means of a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance as defined in section  2923.11 of the Revised Code.
(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of negligent homicide, a misdemeanor of the first degree. 

Negligence:
*2901.22 Degrees of culpability attached to mental states.*
(D) A person acts negligently when, because of a substantial lapse from due care, the person fails to perceive or avoid a risk that the person's conduct may cause a certain result or may be of a certain nature. A person is negligent with respect to circumstances when, because of a substantial lapse from due care, the person fails to perceive or avoid a risk that such circumstances may exist.

The prosecutor must prove "substantial lapse from due care", with something other than circumstance.


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## M14 Shooter (May 16, 2019)

Blues Man said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


Perhaps - but it addresses the question asked, in full.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 16, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> > Yet another gun thread with nothing but deflections and lies from the right, and as usual no viable solutions.
> ...



"OMG, people are responding!  That must make me right and relevant to the world!"


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 16, 2019)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...



No, just a sanctimony fetish.


----------



## 2aguy (May 16, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> > Yet another gun thread with nothing but deflections and lies from the right, and as usual no viable solutions.
> ...




what agitates us is your refusal to understand rational behavior.   Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to save lives....according to the Centers for disease Control research.....that is a number far larger than the accidental deaths of children, 62, due to the majority criminals who leave their illegal guns lying around their homes, in order to protect themselves and their illegal drugs from other criminals.

Law abiding Americans use their legal guns far more often to save lives,  than criminals use their illegal guns to murder people.....yet you refuse to understand that fact.


----------



## Lucy Hamilton (May 16, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...



*RIP Evan Sun (aged 4)*

But but but IF Evan Sun would never have been BORN and his Mama would have ABORTED him In Utero WOULD you also say RIP Evan Sun? No because you are fanatically Pro-Abortion on Demand you would have congratulated that woman for murdering her OWN baby as it slumbered in the womb.

*"No consequences either. Life is cheap in the US."*

To any one who is Pro-Abortion on Demand life is cheap and they do not CARE about life when support the most INNOCENT of life being destroyed In Utero.


----------



## Tommy Tainant (May 16, 2019)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> ...


Evan had a name. No aborted foetus had a name. There is a difference.


----------



## Tommy Tainant (May 16, 2019)

2aguy said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > C_Clayton_Jones said:
> ...


Made up figures. List the instances ya lying shit.


----------



## Lucy Hamilton (May 16, 2019)

WillHaftawaite said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > What part of Mr Suns "god given rights" would be impinged by requiring him to buy a box to lock up his guns ?
> ...



We already establish this Will in the below thread from last year that we were all in, another Tommy T thread with the same type of OP about another young child shot by accident because it's parents are morons, no you cannot legislate common sense OR legislate personal responsibility:

Keeping the kids safe.


----------



## Lucy Hamilton (May 16, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



No difference, still a young life and so if some woman call aborted foetus a name would you say RIP after she aborted it?


----------



## Blackrook (May 16, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...


He could have stabbed himself with a pair of scissors.

He could have eaten rat poison.

He could have stuck his finger in a light socket.

This is bad parenting, nothing more, leaving a loaded gun where a 4-year-old can reach it.

Doesn't mean we have to ban all guns.


----------



## Lucy Hamilton (May 16, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> What part of Mr Suns "god given rights" would be impinged by requiring him to buy a box to lock up his guns ?



You do not need a box to lock up the guns, a gun has a safety lock on it. Mr. Son is a moron and NOT a responsible parent, you could give him a box to put the gun in and he probably would forget to put the gun in it.

This tragic situation is about personal responsibility and about parental responsibility to make sure your child is NEVER in a dangerous situation. I have many guns and not ONE of my kidlets has EVER been shot by accident. I do not have any box to lock my guns in, my guns always have their safety lock on.


----------



## 2aguy (May 16, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...




Tell that to the Centers for Disease Control....and if you don't like their research ask our Department of Justice...they put the defensive gun use number at 1.5 million times a year....1.5 million times a year a life is saved using a legal gun....


----------



## ThunderKiss1965 (May 16, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...


Its the parents fault not the inanimate object.


----------



## Correll (May 18, 2019)

Rustic said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...




You would think he would thank you for bringing this to his attention, so he could focus his energy, to save the children, where it would have more impact. 


Odd that he does not...


----------



## 2aguy (May 18, 2019)

Correll said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...




Of course you know the truth......they don't care about the children dying....they hate guns.  Dead children are just a useful, powerful tool to achieve banning and confiscating guns, one gun type, one bullet, or one piece of equipment at a time...whatever they can get when they can find bodies on the ground after a shooting in the very gun free zones they created....


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 20, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



Yeah, Evan was wanted and the aborted fetus wasn't.  I don't think YOU of all people want to be making the case that humanity or "personhood" exist on the basis of how other people feel about you.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 20, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



You want him to list 1.1 million instances for you?


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## Tommy Tainant (May 20, 2019)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Well it equates to over 3000 a day. That's 21000 a week. Let's have the proof.


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## 2aguy (May 21, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...




A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense 

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million  averaged over  those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..


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## gallantwarrior (May 21, 2019)

Oddball said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> ...


Better he had been aborted.


----------



## satrebil (May 21, 2019)

"Oh no! Some dumb shit parents left a gun where a child could get it! We need to punish 80+ million other Americans who had nothing to do with it!"

- Leftists


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## Tommy Tainant (May 21, 2019)

2aguy said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


Hmmmm. Can you give me some examples from last week ?


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## Cecilie1200 (May 21, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



Dimwit, I have lost count of the number of times you have had this very point verified for you through the statistics on various government websites such as the CDCP, the FBI, and the DOJ.  And every damned time, you utterly ignore it and keep one shouting your assumptions into the ether, and then come back on another thread and start demanding proof again like nothing happened.

So I tell you what.  Let's have the proof that you have a functioning memory and that we're not just throwing perfectly good information down a giant, swirling toilet bowl in your skull, and maybe then I'll go to the trouble of citing the sources for the umpteenth time.


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## Tommy Tainant (May 21, 2019)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09332480.1997.10542033?journalCode=ucha20
This was the first link I opened. Gun nuts making it up ? Surely not.


----------



## 2aguy (May 21, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



David Hemenway is a hack......

The take down of Hemenway...
https://www.saf.org/wp-content/uploads/journals/JFPP11.pdf

These critics do not mainly support the low-DGU thesis by affirmatively presenting relevant empirical evidence indicating few DGUs. The only empirical evidence affirmatively cited in support of the low-DGU thesis is the uniquely low estimates derived from the NCVS. The critics appear in no way embarrassed by the fact that the only national estimate they can cite in support of their theory is a survey that does not even ask respondents the key question––whether they have used a gun for self-protection. Instead, the critics get around the large volume of contrary survey evidence by pronouncing all of it invalid and insisting that all surveys (excepting the NCVS?) grossly overstate the frequency of DGU.
----

*For example, it is a useful exercise to contrast Hemenway’s assessment of the NSDS results with his uncritical citation (Hemenway 1997b, p. 1442) of findings from a bizarre study (Kellermann et al. 1995) in which the authors assessed the frequency of DGUs linked with home invasion crimes entirely on the basis of the number of times victims volunteered information about such DGUs to Atlanta police.*

 According to the Atlanta Police Department, the offense report forms that their officers fill out do not include a box or other place calling for information about victim weapon use, nor are officers trained or required to ask crime victims about such things. Thus, information about victim weapon use, no matter how common it might in fact be, would almost never appear in police offense reports (a fact reported in the journal that published the Kellermann article––see Fotis 1996; confirmed by Kooi 1997). Nevertheless, solely on the basis of Atlanta Police Department offense reports, Kellermann and his colleagues concluded that DGUs almost never occurred in connection with home invasion crimes, because they were almost never mentioned in the offense reports! Having made no effort to uncover any DGUs in a way likely to locate any, Kellermann et al. saw nothing wrong with concluding that they almost never occur. 

Hemenway likewise treated the results of this study as if they indicate something about how often DGUs actually occur in connection with this sort of crime (“in only 3 cases [1.5%] was a victim able to use a firearm in self-defense”––p. 1442). He evidently either could not see any flaws in Kellermann’s reasoning, or did not feel obliged to point them out to readers, if uncritically citing these obviously non sequitur conclusions could be used to advance his arguments. Apparently no study could be too transparently and fatally flawed, if it supported the rare DGU thesis.


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## Tommy Tainant (May 21, 2019)

2aguy said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


You gave me the link bozo.


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## 2aguy (May 21, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...




17 studies vs. Hemenway....a known, anti-gun hack, who, as my last post shows, doesn't even do quality research....


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## Tommy Tainant (May 21, 2019)

2aguy said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


You still havent given any examples from last week. The Gun Violence Archive provides about 20 verified incidents. Do you have any advance on that ?


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## Cecilie1200 (May 21, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



The first link on what?


----------



## 2aguy (May 21, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...




Since these are local stories and are rarely covered by national news.....

May 17....

Homeowner tried to defend property from burglar with stick. When that didn’t work, he used a gun

A man in Thurston County was forced to defend himself Friday when a homeless intruder broke into his home.

Police say the suspect trespassed onto the property and refused to leave after being told by the homeowner.  That's when things took a turn for the worse.

The Thurston County Sheriff's Office said when the intruder didn’t leave, he started to come through the back door and attack the homeowner.

Detectives say the homeowner did his best to fend off the burglary suspect in his kitchen, using a piece of wood.  When that wasn’t enough, he fired a single shot, hitting the intruder in the chest.

May 15....another local story not covered by national news...

Woman afraid boyfriend would cut her, shoots him five times, police say 

Believing that her boyfriend was retrieving knives to cut her, a woman shot him Wednesday inside their south Fort Worth house, police said.

The woman shot the man five times, in his torso and his arm, Fort Worth police said. The man was in critical condition in the minutes after he was shot and was in surgery at John Peter Smith Hospital. Police did not release his name or age.

The woman was being interviewed by family violence unit detectives.

The violence erupted about 11 a.m. in the house near Clovermeadow and Shadymeadow Drives, police said.

The man made a threat to harm his girlfriend during a dispute, police said.

When the woman, whose name and age police also did not release, believed that her boyfriend went downstairs to get knives, she went upstairs and “grabbed the gun that they keep in the house,” police said.

May 19...another local story....

Tennessee Self defense: Police: Shooter Acted In Self defense Two People Dead :: Firearms Owners Against Crime

HIXSON, Tenn. - Chattanooga Police Department says no charges will be filed for the man who shot and killed two people Saturday night.

Officials say the shooter 25-year-old Cameron Denton appears to have acted in self defense.

Police say they arrived to 6700 block of Ardis Lane after reports of shooting

They found two people suffering from gunshot wounds.

Officials say 27-year-old Kirtus Thompson died on the scene and 57-year-old Douglas Patterson was transported to a local hospital where he later died.

The shooter was also transported to the hospital for treatment after suffering serious injuries.

The investigation is active at this time.

Chattanooga Police ask anyone with information regarding this incident to call the homicide tip line at 423-643-5100 or submit a tip via the CPD Mobile App. You can remain anonymous.

Wabash Trail homeowner opens fire on intruder in kitchen, two later arrested in burglary


----------



## Tommy Tainant (May 21, 2019)

2aguy said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


They are all on the Gun Violence Archive. Out of the remaining  21k events last week you must be able to dredge up a few verified incidents.


----------



## 2aguy (May 21, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...




Gun violence Archive only has gun criminals......

Again....17 actual studies by private and government research groups into the number of defensive gun use cases each year.....vs.   you demanding I search local newspapers for shootings, when the majority of defensive uses of guns don't require anyone get shot, hence they don't make the news.....


----------



## Tommy Tainant (May 21, 2019)

2aguy said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


GVA has more than you have. If there are 21k a week you should be able to produce something. Its not complicated.


----------



## 2aguy (May 21, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



Again.....crimes are reported on the news every single night....self defense with a gun has to actually result in an injury or death...when most self defense with a gun results in the thug running away, or surrendering......

Again....the actual research...notice the research done by the vaunted Centers for Disease Control, and also by the bill clinton Department of Justice...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense 

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million  averaged over  those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..


----------



## Tommy Tainant (May 22, 2019)

2aguy said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...



And yet you cant produce any actual examples. Thats amazing.


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## Rustic (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


Lol
Mind your own business you fat sack of shit


----------



## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...




When someone actually has to shoot a criminal intent on rape, robbery and murder, they make the actual news.....when the thug is smart and runs away, it isn't news worthy in most places, you twit...that is the magic of a gun for self defense.....even the smallest woman can drive off multiple attackers without having to kill them.....something you guys will need to learn as your criminals become more and more aggressive.


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...




The Gun Violence Archive covers illegal gun use........which the anti-gun press is happy to cover in the news every day.....but actual cases of self defense takes an actual shooting incident to get into the news or police reports.....cases where the woman about to be raped draws a gun, and the thug or thugs run away, don't get covered....

The Gun violence Archive....

Why the "Gun Violence Archive" Is Flawed From the Start - The Truth About Guns

But the problem is that their methodology will never accurately reflect the defensive use number.

The issue is that they are depending on media reports and police blotters for their information. While that might seem reasonable to the lay person, the fact of the matter is that the disparity in the reporting of defensive gun uses versus murders and shootings is so great as to make any analysis based on that data impossible. The old admonition “if it bleeds it leads” is as true as it’s ever been, so virtually every shooting and gun-related death gets reported on the news and is reported to the police. But defensive gun uses? Frequently nothing happened. It’s doubtful that there would even be a police report about many of the incidents, let alone a mention in the news.

Let’s take that a step further. What percentage of defensive gun uses even get reported to the police? Every single person I know who has had a DGU hasn’t reported it — they simply walked away and got on with their lives, thankful for the iron on their side. The problem with the GVA’s assumption is that they believe every single DGU will be reported, and the fact of the matter is that they won’t be.

Even if the DGU is reported to the police, included in the police blotter, and then picked up by this site, there’s one more hurdle to it being accepted. “Each incident is verified by both initial researchers and secondary validation processes” they claim, *meaning that only events which meet their specific definition of a defensive gun use are included in the count. What are those definitions? They don’t say, besides a vague statement:*

*The reported use of force with a firearm to protect and/or defend one’s self or family. Only verified incidents are reported.*

That phrase — “use of force” — is what leads me to believe that they will refuse to include any DGU that doesn’t involve a shot being fired.

*Even their own results page backs this up, where every single DGU includes shots being fired. Not every defensive gun use ends with someone being shot, and that’s where the inherent bias in the data starts to become apparent. Not every DGU requires a shot to be fired. And even by the most conservative estimates, there are more than 100,000 annual defensive gun uses.*


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


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Here is one collection of news stories of gun self defense...

Defense Stories :: Firearms Owners Against Crime

Here is another collection source for gun self defense...

The Armed Citizen®

Monday, May 20, 2019

A group of young girls were outside their home in the neighborhood when a strange man walked up nearby. The man began to speak to himself and inanimate objects underneath an adjacent carport. Frightened at the man's strange behavior, the girls ran into the home and told their father. The girls' father retrieved his gun and went outside his home where he confronted the strange man, who was told to leave. A neighbor, who was also armed, came outside to see what was going on. The disturbed man then threw his ring at the father and neighbor, telling them he was trying to return the jewelry. Both the neighbor and father called the police and held the man at gunpoint. The man was taken into custody for resisting arrest and drug possession. (_ktxs.com_, Abilene, Texas, 2/18/19)

*Armed Citizen Extra*
When two men approached his Manatee County home with screwdrivers, an armed homeowner knew exactly what was about to go down. One would-be intruder approached his front door, while the other came toward the back, with the plan to use their screwdrivers to force open the doors. After noticing a gun in the hand of one suspect however, the armed homeowner opened fire, putting both suspects to flight. _(ABC 7 WWSB, _Bradenton,  Fla., 4/30/19)

Friday, May 17, 2019

Late one evening in Durkee, Ore., a husband and wife noticed a strange car parked in the driveway of a house their neighbors reside in periodically. Curious, the woman called her neighbors to check with them. Discovering the house was supposed to be empty, the woman's husband retrieved his shotgun and headed to the neighbor's house. He found two trespassers and ordered them to leave, while he held them at gunpoint until deputies arrived. The trespassers were determined to have been squatters. (idahostatesman.com, Boise, Idaho, 2/9/19)

*Armed Citizen Extra*
A man in Rapid City, Mich., returned to harass his ex-girlfriend one too many times. After the 26-year old went to the home of his 25-year old ex, now living in the home of her new 23-year old boyfriend, he was told to leave. Slowed but not deterred, the 26-year old returned seven days later, after sending threatening texts to his ex and her new boyfriend. The 23-year old homeowner answered the door with a rifle, but the 26-year old fought his way in, at which point the homeowner shot him in the chest with a "small-caliber" pistol. The intruder is recovering from his injuries at a local hospital. (_Traverse City Record Eagle,_ Rapid City, Mich., 4/15/19)


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


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Here are the actual stories that make the news.......

Wait...I have to break it up.....can't post more than 100,000 characters....

'I had to take care of things': Gun-wielding Texas mother scares off intruder
The family does not want to be identified, but wanted to share the story in hope that awareness can help in similar situations.

The mother was at home with the family's 3-month-old daughter Thursday night. Her husband was out of town working, but was coming home Friday to celebrate the first Christmas with their daughter.

After tossing and turning in bed for a while, the mother was not able to fall asleep and went to the living room around 11:30 p.m.

About an hour later, she heard the home alarm beep and her back door open.

Her instinct kicked in.

"I froze for a second and then I realized I needed to spring into action, I mean, I had my baby in the house. I was alone. My husband was away on business, so I had to take care of things," she said.

She grabbed a gun and went towards the back door, where she found a man standing in her kitchen.

She yelled at the man while pointing the gun at him, and her dog ran towards him, scaring him out of the back door.

She locked the door and called 911.
================

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/12/22/suspect-puts-gun-mans-head-gets-shot/

*A suspect put a gun to a man’s head on Thursday only to flee under a barrage of bullets after the would-be victim pulled his own gun and opened fire.*

The incident occurred in Philadelphia’s West Oak Lane.

According to 6 ABC, Rahkeim Kelly was “headed home from buying a soda” when the suspect in a hoodie approached and put a gun to his head. Kelly managed to move away quickly, take cover behind a car, draw his own gun, and open fire.

The suspect, 22-year-old Osirus Lester, fled the scene.

Kelly said, “I fired two shots first, then he tried to take off running. I fired one more, then he ended up dropping the gun. He ran off and I just went and secured the weapon.”

Lester was arrested within minutes with a gunshot wound to his wrist.

Philadelphia Police Capt. Sekou Kinnebrew said, “[Kelly] does have a valid permit to carry. We checked that out. He’s the victim of a robbery. He did attempt to retreat, taking cover behind a car. But the offender continued to aggress, and (the victim) had to defend himself.”
=====================


11/25/17

Auto shop employees credited with taking down accused Rockledge gunman

ROCKLEDGE — A man armed with a .45-caliber handgun and a lot of ammunition wandered onto an auto repair shop property and began firing in the parking lot Friday afternoon, police said.

The gunman killed one employee and paralyzed a second. That's when the employees at Schlenker Automotive fought back with equal force, Rockledge police chief Joseph La Sata said.

"The manager, who was a concealed weapons permit holder, came out and engaged in gunfire in the parking lot," La Sata said. "The manager fled back inside the building, being chased by the gunman. Another Schlenker employee, who also had concealed weapons permit, engaged in gunfire with the suspect."

Police said the suspect in the homicide is Robert Lorenzo Bailey Jr., 28, of Cocoa. He was shot twice and was in critical condition at Health First's Holmes Regional Medical Center in Melbourne. Officers are keeping him under watch.
===================
11/15/17

Good Guy with Gun Stops Sex Assault on Hiking Trail

According to The Blaze, Josh Williams, 39, nearly left his handgun at home when heading out to the hiking trail on a dark morning back in September, but he felt the nagging sensation that he should take it anyway. That turned out to be the right call because while on the trail at 5:30 a.m., Williams heard a woman scream loud enough to get past his music-blaring earbuds. 

In the darkness, Williams shined his flashlight and discovered a woman being sexually assaulted and approached the perpetrator.

“I came up, pulled my gun and told him to get off of her,” Williams recalled. He then asked the man to get on his knees and asked to see his hands: “That way I knew he didn’t have a weapon. And at that point he was no threat, so I didn’t feel the need to shoot him.”

The perp ran away but thanks to a good description from both the victim and Williams, police were able to later apprehend 22-year-old Richard McEachern and charge him with sexual assault.

The victim was very glad Williams decided to carry that day and used a gun to save her from a dangerous situation. That was the first time Williams ever pointed his weapon at another person, but it confirmed for him the importance of the Second Amendment:

“It’s dark, and I don’t know what’s out there, so I have it to protect myself and other people. That’s what it’s all about anyway — to help other people with it, not just myself.

“I didn’t think I’d ever have to pull it. Did I want to? No, not at all. But just … right place, right time.”


====================

11/11/17

81-year-old homeowner fatally shoots armed robber

A suspect was shot and killed when he tried to rob an 81-year-old man at gunpoint outside of the man’s home in Genoa, Arkansas, on Thursday afternoon.

Buddy Cates told KSLA that he walked outside of his home around 1:30 p.m. and came face to face with the suspect, who authorities are still working to identify.

Cates said the suspect was holding a “big pistol,” but Cates also had his hand in his pocket, gripping his own gun.

“The battle was one,” Cates recalled, noting that, between the two, at least a dozen shots were fired.

“Whoever got the biggest gun and fastest will be boss when it is all said and done,” Cates said. “In this case, it was me.”

Cates was uninjured, but the suspect died after he was taken to a hospital in Texarkana, not far from Cates’ home.

After the attempted robbery and subsequent shooting, three women were arrested in connection to the crime, according to reports from the Texarkana Gazette. Kiana Keshaun Montgomery, 21; Shaynesha Martin, 19; and Ke’Erica Turner, 20, are all facing charges for aggravated robbery and are being held at the Miller County Detention Center. Authorities did not say what part the women played in the robbery or whether they are believed to be responsible for other crimes.


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


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More stories.....that actually made the news...

11/4/17

Walmart shooting, where good guys didn't shoot


Colorado Walmart's Armed Innocents Hampered Police. Or Not. - The Truth About Guns

First, the police weren’t on scene when the killer fired his gun; they arrived _after_ the perp had escaped. Second, the armed good guys didn’t shoot other armed good guys (no shots were fired by anyone other than the bad guy). And third, other reports indicate that the killer scarpered _after_ he caught sight of armed opposition.

Given these facts one could easily argue that armed defenders prevented greater loss of life. And that all the anti-gun rights hysteria about the presence of armed innocents making\ cops’ jobs harder is a bunch of horsesh*t. I mean, how exactly did these armed Americans _threaten_ public safety?

------

Nine-point-nine times out of ten, the police are _not_ the first responders to an act of violence. The innocent people being attacked are the first responders. The idea that they should be disarmed to make it easier for armed police to respond — most often after the fact — is to say that it’s OK to sacrifice innocent life on the altar of imagined efficiency. It isn’t.

Besides, as National Association for Gun Rights Prez Dudley Brown told the _Times,_ “In that situation, what are people supposed to do? Lay down on the floor and draw chalk marks around themselves?”

11/1/17


Dallas Homeowner's Story Proves Why Private Citizens Need Guns

For one Dallas homeowner, however, the nightmare became reality.
A man that police believe intended to rob a Lake Highlands home was shot early Monday morning.
It happened in the 9500 block of Moss Farm Lane near Abrams Road and Royal Lane.
_The homeowner said the man first rang his doorbell around 5 a.m. He apologized for being at the wrong home and left._

_A few minutes later the man came back, kicked in the door and forced his way inside. But the homeowner had a gun and opened fire, police said._

_Neighbors said they heard about a half a dozen shots. When responding officers arrived they found the wounded suspect in the street. The suspect was taken to the hospital in critical condition. He is expected to survive, police said._
The homeowner and his wife were reportedly unhurt and are cooperating with investigators, which is to be expected. After all, it rarely gets to be a more clear case of self-defense than that. I mean, the suspect reportedly knew the house was occupied, yet busted the door in just the same. It’s not an unreasonable assumption to believe that he allegedly entered that home with harmful intent.
And he was shot for his troubles.
Now, he gets to recover from his wounds and contemplate his life choices that led him to get shot in some stranger’s house simply because he apparently thought he had the right to bust into someone else’s home. If he’s smart, he’ll realize he’s fortunate to be alive and seek the path of redemption.

10/20/17


Good guy with a gun stops kidnapping

It was habit, not heroism, that caused Justin Pearson to grab his gun.

But seconds later, that weapon enabled Pearson to stop a kidnapping taking place just outside his Las Vegas home on Oct. 5.

“We heard this real loud noise outside,” said Pearson, 36. “I opened up the door, and this big BMW goes flying by — 60 mph in a 25 mph zone. I dialed 911 immediately.”

As he always does before leaving his house, Pearson, a concealed-carry weapon permit holder, put his pistol on his hip. The 911 operator asked for a license plate number, so Pearson moved down the street to get it.

“He had lost control of the car and almost went into a house at the end of the street,” Pearson said. The BMW then turned around and stopped in front of a neighbor’s yard, where a 6-year-old boy was standing.

“About 50 yards in front of me, the driver grabs this young child and starts stuffing him in the car,” Pearson said.

“‘Holy crap, he just took a child, and he’s trying to stuff him into the car!’” Pearson remembers telling the operator.

Pearson is 6-foot-4 but makes a beanpole look stocky. The kidnapper, Pearson recalls, was a similar height, but was a “solid” 250 pounds.

“He was a very big dude, and I’m not a menacing person by any means,” Pearson said. “I don’t think I could have physically stopped the guy. It would have been super ugly if it was just me versus him.”

Fortunately, Pearson had a trump card — a Heckler & Koch VP9 pistol legally resting on his right hip.


“I carry a concealed firearm everywhere I go,” Pearson said. “I lifted up my shirt and put my hand on my gun.”

“‘Hey, stop!’ I said, real loud. He turned and looked at me. There was just enough of a delay for the kid to get out of the car. I know he saw the firearm.”

With the boy out of the car and an armed citizen staring him down, the man decided to drive away. Pearson and his still-holstered pistol stopped a kidnapping. Police wouldn’t arrive for 17 minutes.

“If I didn’t have a firearm, I don’t think there’s much I could have done,” Pearson said.

A Metropolitan Police Department spokeswoman confirmed many of the details in Pearson’s story, including the date, time and location. Pearson said — and Metro confirmed — that the would-be kidnapper was the boy’s biological father, who didn’t have parental rights or permission to take the child.

This isn’t the first time Pearson has used a firearm to stop a crime.

“Many years ago, I was carrying and a guy pulled a knife on a friend of mine,” Pearson said. “I quickly drew my firearm, and the kid ran away.”


These kinds of stories rarely make the news. But they happen more often than we realize and underscore an important point. Concealed-carry weapon permit holders prevent crimes.

============

10/16/17


Attacker with knife flees after woman reveals her concealed carry gun, police say

A woman in Illinois was reportedly able to protect herself with her concealed carry firearm after a stranger with a knife jumped into her car.

Police said a woman who was parked near a shopping mall in Moline on Sunday was attacked by a man who fought his way into her car, according to WQAD 8.

During the fight, the man reportedly slashed the woman’s arm with a knife. He then ordered the woman to drive to Rock Island County, a rural area, according to police.

DC GUN-FREE ZONES CAUSE CONFUSION OVER LEGALITY OF GUN CARRY EVEN WITH A PERMIT

Once the woman stopped the car, she was able to reach her gun, which she had a concealed carry firearm permit for, WQAD 8 reported.

After the attacker saw the weapon, he reportedly ran off and she was able to drive herself to the hospital.

Police subsequently opened an investigation and arrested Floyd R. May, 61.

May was charged with aggravated kidnapping, aggravated battery with a weapon, unlawful use of a weapon by a felon and aggravated assault.

===========

10/11/17

Woman stabbed shoots and kills attacker...

Fatal Lawndale shooting ruled self-defense, woman not charged

A woman who shot a man after he stabbed her multiple times Thursday afternoon in Lawndale acted in self-defense and will not be charged, police said.

About 4:05 p.m. Oct. 5, the 25-year-old man was shot in the chest when he stabbed the 25-year-old woman multiple times in the 4000 block of West 21st Street, Chicago Police said.

The woman was taken in serious condition to Mount Sinai Hospital, and the man was pronounced dead at the scene at 4:48 p.m., authorities said.

The Cook County medical examiner’s office identified him as Pleasure Cardell Singleton Jr.

The stabbing was believed to be a domestic incident, police said, but the nature of the relationship between the two wasn’t released.
======

9/25/17


Would-be robber fatally shot by resident after forcing family into basement

A man was shot and killed inside a home in Hammond, Indiana, Friday morning while attempting to rob the residents.

According to a statement from the Hammond Police Department, the suspect, who has not been publicly identified, entered the home through the front door around 7:30 a.m. The suspect said he knew of a safe in the basement of the home and announced a robbery while threatening the residents with the firearm.

The suspect then forced three residents into the basement, but unbeknown to the would-be robber, there was a fourth resident inside the house as well. The fourth resident retrieved a handgun, and when the suspect came out of the basement and walked into the kitchen, he shot the suspect multiple times in the chest.

Police were called, and when officers arrived on the scene, the suspect, who was only identified as a black male, was found lying on the kitchen floor. He was pronounced dead at the scene.

==========


9/8/17


Taco Bell employees shoot, kill armed robbery suspect

CLEVELAND – Three employees at a Cleveland Taco Bell shot and killed a suspect during an attempted robbery, according to police.

Officers responded to the restaurant on W. 117th street at 2:45 a.m. Wednesday morning for a report of a robbery with shots fired.

When police arrived, they found a suspect with multiple gunshot wounds. Officers administered first aid until EMS arrived. The suspect later died at MetroHealth Medical Center. The medical examiner later identified the suspect as 24-year-old Cleveland resident De'Carlo Jackson.

Another man, believed to be Jackson's accomplice, had already taken off by the time officers arrived.

Police say a preliminary investigation indicates that three Taco Bell employees, all armed, shot at the two suspects after they came into the restaurant wearing masks and ordered the employees to the ground at gunpoint.
==============


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


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More stories that actually made the news....

8/23/17

Police: Robber tries to take woman's purse, flees when 57-year-old shows gun at west Little Rock shopping center

The would-be robber reportedly grabbed the woman’s purse while it rested on her shoulder, at which point, the victim brandished a weapon she had stored inside.
According to the report, the assailant then fled west through the parking lot of the grocery store and behind Belk.
No items were listed as stolen from the woman.
===================
8/9/17

Deputies: Mass Stabbing Suspect Stopped When Fourth Target Pulled a Gun - Breitbart

*Deputies say a suspect who allegedly stabbed three people in Seminole, Florida, stopped when a fourth individual pulled a gun on him.*
The incident occurred Sunday afternoon in broad daylight.
According to The Patch, the incident began when witnesses alleged they saw 49-year-old Bobby Martin Watson trying to rob a woman in a Publix parking lot. Pinellas County Sheriff’s Office deputies indicate that the woman–44-year-old Rosanna Lynn–struggled with Watson and he stabbed her.
Watson then ran and a witness–44-year-old Christopher McMann–approached, only to get stabbed as well.
Deputies said a second good Samaritan–31-year-old Travis Jones–then chased and tackled Watson, only to be “stabbed in the abdomen during the struggle that ensued.” Forty-year-old Donald Rush saw what was happening, grabbed his gun from his vehicle and ran at Watson. He was able to take away the knife “and held [Watson] at gunpoint until deputies arrived.”
Rush did not have to fire his gun. The sight of the brandished firearm was enough to stop the attack.
Watson was booked into the Pinellas County jail. He faces charges of “armed robbery and three counts of aggravated battery with a deadly weapon.”

8/6/17


Police: Armed Woman Stops Road Rage Attacker with One Shot - Breitbart

*Police in Glendale, Arizona, say an armed woman stopped a road rage attacker with one shot on Wednesday.*
The armed motorist repeatedly said she was armed but the attacker ignored her warnings.

According to 3 TV/CBS 5, Glendale Police Sgt. Scott Waite said a driver that was cut off by another vehicle at 67th and Olive Avenues, and then followed the vehicle “to 59th Avenue and Bell Road where a physical altercation took place.”

The road rage suspect allegedly approached the car and struck the passenger in the face, at which point the female driver exited the vehicle and announced that she was armed. Unfazed, “the suspect then [allegedly] approached the armed driver and punched her in the face and continued to assault her, putting her into a headlock.”


Waite said the road rage suspect kept attacking the driver, even though the driver continued warning that she was armed. Realizing there was no other option, the driver then fired one shot, “ending the fight.”

A witness of the incident told 12 News, “One of them broke the car window of another car pulled the lady out and they started fighting in the middle of the street. One got on top of the other and the girl just pulled out a gun and shot her in the gut.”


8/2/17


66-year-old jewelry store owner beaten during robbery, shoots 2 suspects, third in custody

Authorities say the trio – *all of whom were armed with handguns *– entered the business around 2:45, displayed their weapons and demanded cash and merchandise before they began beating and pistol whipping the 66-year-old store owner. At some point during the assault, the store owner was able to break free and retrieve his own gun.

The owner opened fire on the suspects and a gunfight ensued. During this time, Gomez and Mitchell were struck by gunfire. The owner, although he sustained injuries from the assault, was not injured by gunfire.

Soon after shots were fired, the trio ran from the store and fled the area in a vehicle that had been parked at a nearby carwash.

Gomez, who suffered multiple gunshot wounds, was dropped off at an area hospital, and Mitchell was found lying in the roadway at another location. Gomez, who has robbery charges pending, remains hospitalized, while Mitchell was pronounced dead at the scene where he was found.

Two days after the robbery, authorities received a tip that Harris was hiding out in San Antonio, leading the Lone Star Fugitive Task Force to conduct surveillance. The Task Force witnessed Harris leave a residence then get into a vehicle and drive away. A subsequent traffic stop was conducted, during which time Harris surrendered without incident.



7/24/17

72-year-old who fatally shot robber: ‘I’m a good shooter’
After Johnson drove Holt to the apartment, she got out of the vehicle and walked around to the side of the building. Moments later, two men, one of whom was armed with a gun, approached Johnson’s vehicle and demanded money as they hit him multiple times.
“They didn’t know who they were messing with,” Johnson later told reporters. “They messed with the wrong person that day.”
Unbeknown to the suspects, Johnson was packing a pistol.
“I was getting the gun out at the same time while he was asking for the money, when he was asking for the money, talking – POW! I shot that bastard,” Johnson said.
Johnson fired a single shot, striking Randall Caradine, 46, in the chest. Caradine was transported to a hospital and died a short time later, while the second suspect made off with $1,000 in cash and remains at large.
Following the robbery and subsequent shooting, authorities interviewed Holt, who admitted the robbery was previously planned in order to pay off a $30 drug debt owed to Caradine and the second suspect.

7/18/17
no shots fired....

17-Year-Old Spokane Girl Grabs Dad's Gun, Scares Off Home Intruder

On Monday morning, a 17-year-old Spokane girl gave a suspected car thief a rude reception when he invaded her house; brandishing her father’s gun in his face before he fled like a scared rabbit.

The entire sequence of events started at roughly 5:00 a.m. when deputies spotted a stolen car in the Wandermere area. Once they started pursuing the suspect, he fled on foot.

The police provided updates on the _The Wake Up Show_ on KHQ. Meanwhile, 17-year-old Kimber Wood's boyfriend and parents saw the updates, before they left for work. Her boyfriend met some deputies on his way, then called Kimber to inform him of what was happening.

Kimber called her father to ask if she could grab one of his guns. He assented, whereupon she placed it under her pillow and went back to sleep.

She awakened and heard an intruder, prompting her to grab the gun. Hiding behind her makeup vanity, she suddenly came face to face with the car thief.

Brandishing her gun, she pointed it at the suspect and said, "Who are you?" and "Get the (expletive) out of my house!"

The thief beat a hasty retreat after stealing her boyfriend’s ATV; but Kimber wanted to make sure he got the message, firing one shot into the ground as he fled.
=========================


How much money, how many lives are saved by armed americans...Annual Defensive Gun Use Savings Dwarf Study's "Gun Violence" Costs - The Truth About Guns

Our man Bruce Krafft — whose posts we dearly miss — did the math back in 2012. Here it is:
Our fearless leader suggested that I take a look at the flip side of the anti’s latest attack on our freedoms (a recycled strategy from the Clinton-era Public Health model of gun control): the monetary cost of gun violence.
For example, the Center for American Progress touted the “fact” that the Virginia Tech massacre cost taxpayers $48.2 million (including autopsy costs and a fine against Virginia Tech for failing to get their skates on when the killer started shooting).
It’s one of the antis’ favorite tricks: cost benefit analysis omitting the benefit side of the equation. So what _are_ the financial benefits of firearm ownership to society? Read on . . .
In my post Dennis Henigan on Chardon: Clockwork Edition, I did an analysis of how many lives were saved annually in Defensive Gun Uses (DGUs). I used extremely conservative numbers. Now I am going to use some less conservative ones.
The Kleck-Gertz DGU study estimated that there are between 2.1 and 2.5 million DGUs a year in the U.S. The Ludwig-Cook study came up with 1.46 million. So let’s split the difference and call it 1.88 million DGUs per year.
In the K-G article _Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun,_ 15.7 percent of people who had a DGU reckoned they almost certainly saved a life. Ignoring the ‘probably’ and ‘might have’ saved a life categories for simplicity, 15.7 percent of 1.88 million gives us 295,160 lives saved annually.
[NB: A number of people have questioned the 15.7 percent stat. Remember: many states regard the mere act of pulling a gun on someone a form of deadly force. In addition, virtually every jurisdiction in the nation requires that an armed self-defender must be in “reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm” before using (or in some places even threatening to use) deadly force.]
How can we get a dollar figure from 1.88 million defensive gun uses per year? Never fear, faithful reader, we can count on the .gov to calculate everything.
According to the AZ state government, in February of 2008 a human life was worth $6.5 million. Going to the Inflation Calculator and punching in the numbers gives us a present value of $6.93 million.
So figuring that the average DGU saves one half of a person’s life—as “gun violence” predominantly affects younger demographics—that gives us $3.465 million per half life.
Putting this all together, we find that the monetary benefit of guns (by way of DGUs) is roughly $1.02 _trillion_ per year. That’s trillion. With a ‘T’.
I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million). But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.
*When compared to the (inflation adjusted from 2002) $127.5 billion ‘cost’ of gun violence calculated by by our Ludwig-Cook buddies, guns save a little more than eight times what they “cost.”
Which, I might add, is completely irrelevant since “the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right — subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility.”
So even taking Motherboard’s own total and multiplying it by 100, the benefits to society of civilian gun ownership dwarf the associated costs.*

*=========*




This Guy Tried To Rob A 7-Eleven. The Clerk Had A Gun.

A man attempted to rob a 7-Eleven in Virginia Beach, Virginia, on Saturday, but was stopped by a clerk with a gun. 

The man, identified as Davin McClenney, allegedly attempted the robbery at 1:06 a.m. but was shot by a 7-Eleven clerk who has not yet been publicly identified.

When police arrived at the scene, McClenney was already down with a bullet in his upper body. He was taken to the hospital, where he is currently in critical condition.

*McClenney has a prior criminal record that includes three robberies, one of which was a home invasion in July 2016 that involved him reportedly taking numerous items from the homeowner at gunpoint. He was set to stand trial for the crime in August, but a judge granted his release from jail on bond in December.*


=================
6/2/17 teenage thug shot and killed

Chicago teen fatally shot by CCP-holder during attempted robbery

A 16-year-old boy is dead after he allegedly tried to rob a man outside of a bank in the Oak Park area of Chicago Saturday morning.
Police say it appears the teen, who was armed with a gun, approached the 24-year-old victim just after 11 a.m. intending to commit a robbery. However, the would-be victim was also armed and an exchange of gunfire occurred.
The teen, who was identified as Damon Phillips, was shot multiple times in the chest and fled the scene in a waiting car. He later showed up at an area hospital where he was pronounced dead about half an hour after the attempted robbery. It wasn’t immediately known how Phillips got to the hospital or whether there was a second suspect involved.
The victim, who authorities confirmed has a valid permit to carry a concealed weapon, was not injured.
No charges have been filed at this time, although the incident remains under investigation.



5/110/17 Chicago car jackers shot


Alleged carjacker shot, wounded on SW Side

CHICAGO (WLS) --
The victim of an apparent carjacking shot and wounded one of the two men who allegedly tried to steal his vehicle Wednesday afternoon on the city's Southwest Side, police said.

The carjacker was shot in the groin, and were nabbed by police outside an auto repair shop near 63rd and Whipple in the Chicago Lawn neighborhood.

The 29-year-old owner of the vehicle, who has a valid conceal and carry license, fired his weapon after the two men approached him outside his PT Cruiser near 62nd and Homan.

The carjacker who was hit, a 25-year-old man, was taken to Christ Medical Center where he was in good condition on Wednesday, police said.

A witness said that by the time the PT Cruiser pulled into the driveway of the auto repair shop, it was being followed by five to six police cars.

Surveillance video captured the moment when police approached the vehicle outside the auto repair shop, two people in the car with their hands up.

Police found blood in the backseat and a flat tire.

Both offenders were in custody Wednesday

=========


1/23/17


Pizza Delivery Man Shot, Returns Fire

In southwest Philadelphia, a pizza deliveryman was ambushed and shot after he arrived at the location of a "customer."



The 36-year-old father of eight was delivering pizzas for Chester Pizza just after 7 p.m. Someone had called for a delivery and gave the address of an abandoned house in the 5300 block of Yocum Street


He got out of his car and almost immediately found himself face-to-face with the armed suspect.



"A group of males came from the abandoned property towards him," said Philadelphia Police Lt. John Walker. "One pulled a gun, pointed it at the pizza delivery driver's head (and) demanded money and pizzas."

Keyveat Fredericks struggled with the attackers and then made it to his car. "I smacked his gun. Ran around my vehicle. I had dropped the pizzas. I heard one shot. I felt it hit me. I can tell you I felt it go through my arm. I heard it literally hit my gun that was on my side on my holster and I felt it go inside of me," he described.

He was shot on his arm and hip.

But Fredericks didn't give up. He hid behind his car, unholstered his weapon, and shot back.
=======

1/11/17 Armed citizen saves trooper

Armed Man Saves Wounded Arizona State Trooper - The Truth About Guns
==========================
1/10/17

Pawn store shoot out video...you see owner shoot and kill one, the other runs away...


GUN FIGHT: Breaking Down the Dixie Gun & Pawn Robbery

12/19/16


Armed citizens foil 2 separate robberies in Philadelphia

Two attempted robberies in Philadelphia over the weekend were stopped when both intended targets fought back against and fired at their assailants.

The first attempted robbery occurred at an auto repair shop around 6:30 p.m. in the Elmwood area of the city. According to local reports, after the armed robber entered the shop, the owner shot the suspect a total of three times – once in the chest, once in the shoulder and once in the buttocks.

When police arrived on the scene, the 30-year-old suspect was transported to a local hospital. As of Sunday night, he remained in critical condition.

Police say they recovered a weapon from the scene. Neither the suspect or the shop owner’s names have been released.

The second incident unfolded about three hours later, shortly after 9:30 p.m., when a pizza delivery driver was making what he thought was a delivery in a northeast neighborhood.

As the 52-year-old driver, who police confirmed is licensed to carry a concealed firearm, walked up to the house where he was supposed to make the delivery, he was jumped from behind by the suspects. They initially made off with $82 from the driver, but as they attempted to make their escape, the driver opened fire, striking one of the suspects in the leg.


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## JoeB131 (May 22, 2019)

34000 gun deaths
70,000 gun injuries
400,000 gun crimes
$270,000,000,000 in economic losses due to gun violence

But do keep posting DGU Porn.


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
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More stories that actually made the news......

11/15/16

Armed Bystander Guns Down Criminal Suspect Attacking Cop

A passerby carrying a concealed weapon shot and killed a criminal suspect who was attacking a sheriff’s deputy in Estero, Fla.

Deputy Dean Bardes was pursuing a fleeing suspect in a 100 mph car chase down Interstate 75 when the suspect abruptly stopped, exited his car, and attacked Bardes after he did the same, acording to local WINK News. The suspect, whom the deputy says was armed, got the better of Bardes, who began crying for help.

“The officer opened his door, and the guy got out and ran out and grabbed the officer out of his car and started beating him profusely, throwing him to the ground and punching him in all different directions,” eyewitness Shanta Holditch told local station NBC-2.

---------

*The bystander pointed his gun at the suspect and warned he would fire if he didn’t stop attacking the deputy. When the suspect refused, the bystander shot him three times, allowing Bardes to escape. The man later died from his injuries.*

Bardes avoided being shot and was released from the hospital Monday afternoon after being treated for minor injuries.
===============================

11/3/16

73-Year-Old Homeowner Kills Two Armed Robbers: Defensive Gun Use of the Day - The Truth About Guns

An [unnamed] active 73-year-old retiree was well liked in his South St. Louis neighborhood. He helped people out. He spent much of his time in his garage working on his truck. The retiree had been a victim of robbery attempts before. The armed homeowner was in his garage, working on his truck, when two men entered with guns drawn. From fox2now.com:
A 73-year-old man told police that he shot the suspects after they attempted to rob him. Investigators say that the man was inside of his garage when the suspects entered the door and displayed their guns. Police say that one of the suspects held a gun to the victim’s head and demanded the victim back up.
The victim said he got out his gun and, fearing for his safety, shot at the men. Police say that the victim’s gun and the guns used by the suspects were recovered from the scene. The gun recovered from Jonathan Warren was reported stolen on Sunday by the Florissant Police Department.
The homeowner’s marksmanship didn’t let him down. The two dead robbers, Jonathan Warren, 18, and Lonnie Middlebrook, 20, had significant criminal histories. No surprise there. From stltoday comments:
Case.net shows these two were certainly not on the path to stellar citizenship. Middlebrook already had charges pending on unlawful possession of a firearm over the summer. The other guy had charges for elder abuse and property damage with intent to steal. Plus it looks like they both had several run-ins with MetroLink.
=============


10/25/16


A Thug Tried To Carjack An Armed Senior. Wanna Guess What Happened Next?

An elderly Oklahoma man passing through Sioux Falls (SD) was attacked by a man half his age who must have thought that a man 42 years his senior sitting in a car with the door open would be easy target for a carjacking.

He figured wrong.

“The driver’s door was cracked slightly. While they were in there, what ends up being our suspect came along and pulled open the door and started punching the man in the head. Telling him to get out. He was trying to take the car,” said Sioux Falls Police Officer, Sam Clemens.

What the suspect didn’t know was the 71-year-old man he was was hitting over the head was carrying a concealed weapon. The Oklahoma man sitting with his wife took a 38 caliber handgun out of his pocket and shot the suspect twice.

“There’s some type of reciprocity so if you’re issued a concealed weapons permit in another state, as long as there’s that agreement between the states, then you’re allowed to carry concealed in a different state,” said Clemens.

The carjacking suspect, 34-year-old Edward Leblanc of Bismark, was found near McDonald’s on West 41st Street. He will most likely face charges of robbery and simple assault, once he’s released from the hospital.

==========================

10/9/16

South Carolina 14 year old school shooter stopped by concealed carry gun owner...


Townville, SC School Shooter Was Taken Down By Armed Citizen

It turns out that volunteer firefighter Jamie Brock was in fact armed with a handgun when he took down the teenager who murdered his father and then went of a shooting spree at Townville Elementary School.

A firefighter who had been reported to be unarmed when he took down a 14-year-old accused in a school shooting was actually carrying a handgun, the sheriff revealed Monday.

Jamie Brock, 30-year veteran volunteer firefighter, confronted J___ O___*, who is accused of killing his father and a first-grader and wounding a teacher and another 6-year-old on Wednesday.

Brock was the first to reach Townville Elementary School Wednesday afternoon after Osborne opened fire on the playground, authorities said.

Fire Chief Billy McAdams said he and Brock were at his nearby farm when they heard the call about the shooting, and they raced to the school, getting there before deputies.

The Townville Volunteer Fire Department is just down the road from the school. Brock got to the elementary school moments before other officers could respond to a 911 call.

By the time Brock reached the playground, first-grade teacher Meghan Hollingsworth and Jacob Hall and another boy had been wounded.

McAdams said Brock took the shooter down, and he did not mention the gun.


========================

9/21/16


Woman Kills One of Three Home Invasion Suspects in Gun Battle

*On Friday, a woman in Gwinnett County, Georgia, opened fire on three home invasion suspects who woke her from sleep by kicking in her door around 4 a.m.*
One of the three home invasion suspects was killed during the exchange of fire. The other two fled the scene.

According to WSBTV, the woman and a man were in bed when they heard the sound of people kicking their way into the home. The woman grabbed her gun and confronted the invasion suspects, exchanging gunfire with at least one of them. Police said 28-year-old Antonia Leeks was shot and killed in the gun battle.

The woman owns a restaurant, and police believe this drew attention to her and ultimately led to the home invasion/attempted robbery. Gwinnett County police Cpl. Deon Washington said, “This is a very harrowing experience for anyone to endure. She’s shaken. It’s a very difficult experience for anyone to deal with.”



================================
9/16/16

Pastor's wife shoots suspect during robbery in NE Philadelphia
The pastor was hit in the head with the rifle by the bandit.

His wife then pulled out a gun, she was licensed to carry, and shot the suspect in the leg, police say.

Pastor Robert Cook describes the moment his wife shot the suspect.

"And I turned like I was going to get my wallet, but I was stalling. And he hit me in the head with the gun. He swung it like a baseball bat.
And everything was like lightning for a minute. And then I heard my wife saying, drop the gun, drop the gun. I'm like she's got her gun. He turns towards her, and I said, shoot him, shoot him. And she shot him."

The suspect ran off bleeding from the scene, jumped onto the running board of a passing SUV while tossing the rifle.
Police put out description of that man, and a few minutes later, he was spotted near Frankford Hospital.



=================================
9/12/16


1 dead, 2 critically injured after shooting at Kansas Walmart

One person was dead and two others were critically injured after a shooting at a Walmart in Kansas on Sunday, police said.

Shawnee police spokesman Dan Tennis said In a news release that the incident occurred shortly before 1:30 p.m. (2:30 p.m. ET) at a Walmart southwest of Kansas City.

As a woman was placing her infant in a car seat in the store's parking lot, Tennis said, two suspects struck her in the back of the head with an unspecified object.

Tennis said a good Samaritan was shot repeatedly after trying to help her. A second good Samaritan then intervened, Tennis said, shooting and killing one of the suspects.

The second suspect fled and was apprehended by a K-9 team near the store, Tennis said.

Both victims remained hospitalized in critical condition, he said.
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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
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More Americans saving lives and stopping criminals....

Four People, Dog Stabbed During Buffalo Grove Home Invasion

*CHICAGO (CBS) —* Four people and their family dog were stabbed early Wednesday, when two masked men broke into their home in north suburban Buffalo Grove.

Police said the homeowner grabbed a handgun during the home invasion, and opened fire, chasing off the suspects.

Just after midnight, police responded to a home invasion in the 400 block of St. Marys Parkway, and found several windows had been broken, and the front door had been forced open. Officers discovered a bloody scene inside.

Witnesses told police that two masked attackers had broken in, and a man armed with a large hunting knife repeatedly stabbed the 49-year-old homeowner. Three other people and the family’s German Shepherd also were stabbed.

During the struggle, the homeowner retrieved a handgun, and opened fire, causing the attackers to run away.

“It’s pretty shocking,” neighbor Bob Meyer said. “This neighborhood is very, very quiet. We’ve lived here for 30-plus years, and this stuff just doesn’t happen here; just doesn’t happen.”

==========
Mom-to-be shoots intruder with her pink pistol

A man is recovering from a gunshot wound after he broke into a Birmingham home early Friday morning and came face-to-face with a pregnant woman who was ready to protect herself and her baby.

Marquita Turner said she heard the suspect remove the air conditioning unit from a side window around 2:20 a.m. Once the unit was out, the suspect climbed right inside, but he likely wasn’t expecting to meet Turner with her pink Taurus Millennium 9mm.

“I grabbed my gun when I woke up. And I walked out of the door and I saw them, the guy in the hallway … he was kind of close to me so I shot and he fell,” Turner told reporters with alocal NBC affiliate.

Turner said she fired two or three rounds and struck the intruder once, then turned on the lights and called the police. Once they arrived, the suspect was taken to the hospital for treatment. He was expected to survive.

Turner, who is currently five months pregnant, said she purchased her gun two years ago for protection, but she’s never been to the range or otherwise had any type of training or target practice. Still, she’s glad she had the means to protect herself when she needed to. She said she doesn’t know what could have happened had she not be able to protect herself and her unborn baby.

===============
With a Gun to her Head, This Woman Knew How to Level the Playing Field (and her assailant)

Police in Glendale, AZ said it was in the early morning hours on Monday when 23-year-old Carol Miracle stopped in at a Circle K convenience store at 59th Avenue and Camelback Road and encountered a violent armed robber.

When police responded to a call of shots fired at approximately 1 a.m., witnesses at the scene said they saw 27-year-old Frank Taylor holding a gun to Carol’s head in an apparent armed robbery.

*But even with a gun to her head, the young woman knew how to level the playing field with her assailant, and was well equipped to do so.*

As Taylor held the barrel to her skull, Carol reached for her own gun holstered at her hip. She drew her weapon and took aim, firing one shot to end the attack.

Taylor was transported to a nearby hospital where he died from his injuries.

Police said Carol also called 9-1-1 to report the shooting from her home, which is in walking distance from the convenience store, and told police she was in fear for her life.


========
Kentucky Man Wins Knock-Knock Game With Armed Robbers

A homeowner in Booneville, KY said he did what he had to in order to protect himself and his sleeping wife Tuesday morning when a group of home invaders knocked on his door and pulled a gun on him.

When James Stewart heard a knock at his door at 5 a.m., he armed himself with his pistol ‘just in case something went wrong’ before opening it to the woman outside who was asking for help. When he opened the door, his hunch was right – the woman was not alone.

Police said when Stewart opened the door, 42-year-old Charles Harris jumped out and pointed a gun right at the elderly homeowner’s head.

“I had my pistol in my hand, up and four shots. He fell to the ground and never moved,” said Stewart.

Harris was pronounced dead at the scene.

The woman who knocked on Stewart’s door was also shot in the arm. She managed to make it to their getaway car and the driver brought the woman, identified as 36-year-old Linda Peters, to a local hospital where she is being treated for her injuries.



============
Man Armed With a Handgun Saves Cop Who Was Pinned to the Ground By Suspect - Inside Edition

Wheeler said he was being attacked by a homeless man who later acknowledged to officers that he was high on crystal meth. Knocked to the ground and fighting to subdue the “very irritated and out of sorts” attacker, Wheeler ended up on his back with the man straddling him.

“I’ve never been in that situation before,” the 14-year department veteran told InsideEdition.com Wednesday. “I’ve always been able to take control of a situation.”

Earlier this week, Wheeler was able to reward Dylan DeBoard, the man who saved him, with the city’s Citizen’s Award of Valor. Every day, he remembers that day last year when things could have turned out far, far worse.

He often stops by DeBoard’s home, Wheeler said, just to say thanks. “Every time I see him I let him know how much I appreciate what he did.”

On that day last year, Wheeler’s shoulder microphone had been ripped off in the tussle, so he couldn’t call for back-up. And then the man started going for Wheeler’s gun. And that’s when Wheeler began to think he was running out of options.

“I pulled him in close to me to try to restrict his range of motion,” Wheeler said. But the suspect just kept “trying to reach my belt.”

And right about then, the man sat back and put his hands up. Wheeler wondered ‘What the …?’

He lifted his head and looked in the direction the man was staring. There stood another man, with a gun.

“I didn’t know if he was pointing at me or him,” Wheeler said, meaning the man sitting on him. That’s when DeBoard announced he had a concealed weapon permit.

While the suspect was distracted, Wheeler managed to flip him over and handcuff him.

=============

Yes....this woman wakes up at 6.am. to be pistol whipped by 3 armed home invaders.....while her 2 children are sleeping. She manages to get to her pistol and shoots the a******s and they run. She manages to hit at least one them who apparently assumed room temperature.

Too bad she had that gun. Now that poor, violent sociopath was killed. It is really a shame when 3 gun toting, violent sociopaths can't enter a home at 6 a.m., pistol whip the woman in the home, and who knows what else they planned, and without getting shot at. Something really needs to be done....she should never have had that gun in the first place...I am sure had she not had that gun.....and other than the pistol whipping, these 3 violent sociopaths meant her no harm.....er.....other than the pistol whipping......

What kind of country do we live in when even violent sociopaths aren't safe from gun violence....?

DGU of the Day: Trotwood Ohio Woman Defeats Three Home Invaders - The Truth About Guns

Three men break into a home in Trotwood, Ohio. [Click here to watch the video.] They’re all armed. It is before 6 am, just three days after Christmas. One of the men is armed with a Tec-9 pistol. He enters last. The other two hold what appear to be conventional semi-auto pistols. They bypass two sleeping children to find the mother. The surveillance video shows the three following the mother after they pistol whipped her in the laundry room.

The man directly behind her has the Tec-9. Presumably holds her at gunpoint while the other two attempt to drag off a safe, in a room with two more children. While the two men are occupied with the safe, the woman breaks free from her captor, accesses a hidden pistol, and starts to fire.

All three run, but the Tec-9 gunman, Azikiwe Presley, is mortally wounded. His body is found 100 yards from the house. From wdtn.com:

“I got my gun and I started shooting and they ran,” the female caller told dispatchers. “They all three had guns, I’m confused … they must not have had bullets because after I pulled the trigger they just took off, instead of firing back. I don’t know if I hit one or not, I don’t see blood anywhere.”

In this case, the recipient of female dedication to protecting innocent life ran a hundred yards and died. It is not uncommon for a man who is fatally shot to run that far, even with a heart/lung shot. As he was likely the one holding the woman at gunpoint, and the closest, greatest, threat with the Tec-9, it is not surprising that he drew the lethal ticket. Whether through choice or happenstance, the mother made the right tactical decision.

Now....here is the thing.....the gun grabbers on U.S. will first tell us that this never happens.

Next they will tell us that the defender with a gun will never be able to actually use the gun because they aren't Navy Seals.

Next they will say, there is no way a good woman with a gun will ever win because she will be easily disarmed.

So......3 men with guns grab a woman with the element of surprise. They hit her, probably injuring her. She manages to get her gun and shoot the three of them out of her house killing one of the a******s in the process.........and I didn't see anywhere in the article where she was the first woman Navy Seal.

===========


Rifle-Wielding North Carolina Teen Scares Off Home Invaders: Defensive Gun Use of the Day - The Truth About Guns


_Kirk Puckett, a spokesperson for the Alamance County Sheriff’s Office, said two sisters, 12 and 13, were inside the home when they heard knocking on the front door._

_Puckett said when they looked outside, they saw three unfamiliar men. He said the older sister grabbed her dad’s rifle._

_The suspects then broke in through the back door. Puckett said the 13-year-old pointed the rifle at them, causing them to run away without taking anything._

_Neighbors praise the teen for her quick thinking._

_“I am in awe of that young lady,” Jackie Garrison said. “To have had that kind of thoughtfulness going on in a time of crisis in her head to where that’s what she did, instead of running and hiding. She probably stopped something major from going on.”_

At the risk of losing my PC credentials, Ms. Garrison ain’t whistlin’ Dixie. Three men breaking into a home with two teenage girls is a recipe for unthinkable atrocity. Only it _is_thinkable — by anyone who understands the value of hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. Including teaching their children how to react in an emergency.

=======

http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/3252...fire-exchanged-between-pokemon-players-robber

Two people were wounded Monday morning after an exchange of gunfire involving a group of Pokemon Go players at a northeast Las Vegas park.

According to Lt. David Gordon, of Las Vegas Metro police, a call of the incident came in at 4:02 a.m. at Gary Reese Freedom Park in the 800 block of North Mojave Road.

Six people were playing Pokemon Go at the park when a person in a vehicle pulled up on the group and attempted to rob them, Gordon said. One of the Pokemon Go players, though, pulled out his own weapon and exchanged fire with the other gunman.

The armed Pokemon Go player was wounded in the incident and was transported to a nearby hospital. The person believed to be the attempted robber was dropped off at a medical facility with a wound of his own.

===============
Elderly homeowner foils attempted break in, shoots, kills would-be intruder in San Antonio

SAN ANTONIO — A man in his late 70s who shot and killed a would-be intruder Thursday morning on the Northwest Side is not expected to face charges at this time, police said.

Authorities arrived at the 9700 block of Autumn Dew around 10 a.m. after the homeowner and his wife, who is in her late 60s, called police to report that a man was attempting to break into their home.

SAPD spokesperson Douglas Greene said the elderly man pleaded with the attempted intruder to stop his efforts to get into the couple's home, but the man continued to force his way into the home, eventually breaking the door handle.

That's when Greene said the homeowner fired his revolver at the door, striking the man, who is in his 40s, in the chest.


=====================
Pistol vs ak-47

Waffle House Customer Shoots Robber Carrying AK-47 | HuffPost

A robber armed with an AK-47 assault weapon stormed a Texas Waffle House, only to be shot by a pistol-packing customer, police say.

A concerned customer and licensed handgun holder told police his wife was on her way to meet him at the establishment. Fearing that the armed robber could harm her, he told police that he confronted the gunman in the parking lot.
When the suspect turned to face the armed customer with his rifle pointing in the customer’s direction, the licensed handgun holder opened fire, shooting him several times, police said.
==========

another night club shooting...


Deputies: Man charged after opening fire, wounding several people at nightclub

LYMAN, SC (FOX Carolina) -

Deputies with Spartanburg County said a man faces multiple attempted murder charges after opening fire outside a nightclub early Sunday morning.

The shooting happened around 3:30 a.m. at Playoffz nightclub on Inman Road in Lyman.

Deputies said 32-year-old Jody Ray Thompson pulled out a gun after getting into an argument with another man and fired several rounds toward a crowd that had gathered out in front of the club.

"His rounds struck 3 victims, and almost struck a fourth victim, who in self-defense, pulled his own weapon and fired, striking Thompson in the leg," Lt. Kevin Bobo said.

Bobo said the man who shot Thompson has a valid concealed weapons permit, cooperated with investigators, and won’t be facing any charges. 

"Thompson was still on the scene when deputies arrived, but the initial scene was chaotic," Bobo said. "It wasn’t until victims and witnesses were interviewed, and video from the scene was reviewed that Thompson was identified as the suspect." 

Thompson was charged four counts of attempted murder, *possession of a weapon during the commission of a violent crime, and unlawful carrying of a weapon.*

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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
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If these people lived in Britain...they would be victims....or corpses....but they live here so they had guns to save lives....

6/3/16


What I want you to know on Gun Violence Awareness Day | Fox News

I correctly listened to my instincts; I had a feeling that my life was in danger in that elevator and prepared myself mentally for what was potentially to come. 

I ran to my car in an attempt to escape and, before I could even get my entire body in my car, I was tackled by my attacker.

This man quickly overpowered me, stabbed at me with a knife, clamped his hand over my mouth multiple times, and repeatedly tried forcing me in the passenger seat of my car while telling me, “We’re going.” 

*The entire time this was happening, a rusted, serrated knife was being stabbed towards my abdomen and held at my face. *

*I had been hit in the face, thrown over my driver’s side console, and had rips in my tights from his hands trying to force my legs up and over into the passenger seat.*

There are some individuals that think gun owners are “trigger happy” and wanting to pull their weapons out at the first opportunity. There is nothing further from the truth.

The night I was attacked, I fought like hell for my life before reaching for my gun. I kicked, I screamed, I had all ten fingernails ripped off and bloodied from scratching and trying to fight my way out of a literal life and death situation.

*Ultimately, I accessed my gun, shot my attacker multiple times, and saved my life. He will be spending years in prison for what he did to me.*

Using a gun in self-protection is not a decision one makes lightly; in fact, I never dreamed that I would be forced into a situation where I would have to do so. However, I also never imagined such evil existing in the world so that I would be powerless, wounded, on my back and unable to physically force my attacker off of me.

I owned a gun and had been trained on how to use it. I know how to safely carry and that a gun is a serious and significant weapon; it is not to be used carelessly. Naysayers and people with opposing opinions may try to undermine my situation with hypotheticals. I cannot answer these questions. All I can do is tell the facts of my story and the true account of how I saved my own life.

*What I want you to know on Gun Awareness Day is that a gun in the hands of a potential victim is not improperly placed; it can be the only thing keeping her from being brutally raped and murdered. *

Without my gun, I would not be alive today.


*Guns are not the problem in America; men like my attacker -- who are willing to violently change one person’s life for no reason except for pure evil – are the problem.*

Be safe at all times. Be aware of your surroundings. Trust your instincts. Always be able to protect yourself. Refuse to be a victim, and instead be a fighter and a survivor. Live to tell your tale and make a criminal regret the day he chose you as a “soft target.” My gun saved my life, and one could save yours too.

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4/23/16

80-Year-Old Shows Us That Age Is Just A Number, Taking Out Armed Robbers During Home Invasion – Concealed Nation

Preying upon the hospitality of strangers, police are alleging that 23-year-old Whitney Kabiru approached the door of an 80-year-old man’s home and asked for help. When the elderly man opened the door, two men attempted to rob him with a BB pistol, according to a press release from the Fairmont Police Department. And for those two men, they couldn’t have made a worse mistake.
As WBOY 12 News reports, by the time Fairmont police arrived at the scene, Larry Shaver, 28, was found dead in the road with a gunshot to his head and neck area. His accomplice, John Grossklaus, 28, was recovered across the street from where the attempted robbery took place with a bullet through his abdomen. After taking Grossklaus to the hospital for treatment for his gunshot wound, he was arraigned in a local magistrate’s court.  The judge set his bond at $250,000.
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4/16/16


Backseat Driver: Man Shoots his Kidnappers in Front Seat

When a man was kidnapped and stuffed into a backseat by two individuals in Nevada this week, they didn’t know he was equipped to shift their plan into park. Permanently.

After taking the man from his home, the kidnappers showed him they already had one of his store employees zip-tied in the backseat of their Nissan Altima. That’s when the man, who is reportedly a jeweler, then entered the car to appease the kidnappers. What they didn’t realize is that the man they were putting into the seat behind them had a concealed weapon.

During the car ride, as the men drove their hostages through a subdivision in Henderson, the man shot his kidnappers from the back seat, killing them both.
4/6/16  no shots fired story...


Armed Citizen Saves Security Officer from 'Tire Iron' Beating

An armed citizen intervened in a parking lot attack, saving a loss prevention officer from an impending “tire iron” assault at the hands of robbery suspects.

According to KVII, Amarillo police say that around 12:45 p.m. on April 3, 35-year-old Ricky Solis was in a Home Depot parking lot in Amarillo, Texas, when he “[took] power tools from the store and left without paying.”

A loss prevention officer reportedly cornered Solis in the parking lot, and a struggle ensued. Police say that during the struggle a second suspect began attacking the loss prevention officer and kicked him in the face.

The second suspect went to his vehicle, grabbed a “tire iron,” and returned, apparently planning to use the iron on the officer.

At that point, a citizen with a concealed carry permit intervened, stopping the attack and reportedly forcing Solis to comply long enough to allow the loss prevention officer to handcuff him and hold him until police arrived.

Solis was arrested for robbery, and the second suspect was able to flee the scene.
4/2/16


I believe the Thug Union Local 911 will be filing a grievance against the city for allowing victims to fight back....

Man Shoots, Kills Carjacker Near Goudy School Thursday

The men handed over their wallets and cash, Trainor said, but the robber then demanded their car.

One of the 23-year-old men then pulled out a gun and shot the robber multiple times, Trainor said. The alleged robber was taken to Advocate Illinois Masonic Medical Center where he was pronounced dead, she said.

According to Uptown Update, the man who killed the alleged robber was a former security guard with a concealed-carry permit.

And is anyone even remotely suprised by this little factoid......

*The robber was on parole for an armed robbery conviction, police said.*

3/24/16 1 vs. 5


Liquor Store Shootout After Attempted Armed Robbery in Denver

Just after 11 p.m. on Monday night, one Denver liquor store sounded more like a gun range than a fire water shop.



Five people entered the liquor store in an attempted robbery, but little did they know the clerk on duty wasn’t interested in being robbed or becoming a victim. He drew a weapon on the robbers and let them know he wasn’t going down without a fight.

“Shots were exchanged,” Sonny Jackson, DPD spokesman, said Tuesday morning.

Scared off by the return gunfire, the suspects took off, leaving one of their crew with a gunshot wound to the leg at Denver Health Medical Center. Police later speculated the wound may have been self-inflicted.



3/24/16


Mother Shoots Intruder 'Multiple Times' to Save Baby - Breitbart

*An Indianapolis mother shot a man “multiple times” after he allegedly broke into the home through the window in the baby’s room.*

According to CBS 4, family members said that around noon on March 24, the woman “heard the window get busted and she called her husband and said I think somebody’s breaking in the house.”

She grabbed her pistol and ran toward the sound of breaking glass, only to be confronted by the alleged intruder who shot at her, but missed.

The mother then opened fire and struck the suspect “multiple times.” He was transported to a hospital for treatment.

In addition to being armed, a 911 dispatcher said the suspect was “carrying zip ties and a walkie-talkie.”
-------------
3/22/16  3-4 thugs

14 year old girl who is shot, clears malfunction and shoots back

video in link...


14-Year-Old Girl Shot By Home Invaders, Shoots Back: Defensive Gun Use of the Day - The Truth About Guns

3/22/16
Woman vs. 3 thugs no shots fired

CCW IN ACTION: Armed 22-Year-Old Woman Stops Three Men Attempting To Rob Her In Store Parking Lot – Concealed Nation

OKLAHOMA CITY, OKLAHOMA — A concealed carrier successfully thwarted the efforts of three men to rob her late at night outside a Dollar Tree. According to police reports from the scene, the woman was exiting the Dollar Tree and heading to her car when she was approached by a man and asked to walk with him. When she refused, he point-blank told her he was going to rob her of her purse.
At this point, according to KOCO, she was presented by two other men backing up the first. She withdrew her concealed carry pistol from her purse and threatened to use it to protect herself. All three men quickly exited and fled the scene.

3/15/16


St. Paul Woman Stops Violent Attack on Husband by Drawing Her Gun

A St. Paul, Minnesota man was brutally assaulted by a gang of 15 to 30 young men who were gambling in his driveway as he returned from work.


32-year-old Bruce Chang says when he tried to clear the group to gain access to his driveway, they began to assault him, even throwing rocks and jabbing sticks at his face and torso.

“I didn’t know I was stabbed but I felt the pressure and fell to one knee,” he said. “I immediately pushed off, because you got to survive.”

Although Chang had obtained his firearms permit for personal protection years ago, he is not allowed to carry at his workplace and says that’s why he did not have his weapon on him when he returned home that day.

Fortunately for him, his wife also has a permit. She was able to run outside and draw her gun – scaring off the gang and ending her husband’s violent attack.

“With one of my older neighbors, who knows what would have happened,” Chang said.
3/13/16


Woman Scares off Assailant With Stick. Just Kidding, it was a gun.

Just before 7pm on Wednesday night, a 29 year-old woman had gathered up her dog and headed outside to… well, to let her dog do what dogs do.

Upon her first step outside her Minot, North Dakota home, she was hit solidly in the face with a blunt object, knocking her backward down the stairs and into her home.

Her assailant followed her into her home and started to approach her, but the woman had made it to a cabinet where she retrieved a handgun to protect herself and her home.

When confronted with the firearm, the violent intruder and would-be robber/rapist/murderer fled the scene.

The smart, independent, gun-owning woman did not require medical attention, most likely due to the fact that she was able to pull a weapon on her assailant to end the attack.


Mount Vernon Man Fends Off Three Attackers With Concealed Firearm, Killing One – Concealed Nation

According to police and witness accounts, the concealed carrier was out on the street testing out a wireless signal booster when he noticed a black Chevy Cavalier slowly making its way down the block. It passed him and then stopped and let out a 22-year-old passenger armed with what appeared to be a shotgun. The armed suspect approached the concealed carrier. This is when the concealed carrier did the right thing and let the suspect know to stay away. When he didn’t comply, there was little choice left but to open fire. Because it was around 11 pm, it was not immediately apparent whether or not the bullet struck his attacker but the attacker quickly ran and got into the car.

According to Skagit Breaking News, Police were later called to the assailant’s home where he was found dead a half a mile away from where the incident occurred.

The driver and those in the vehicle were also found because of the swift work and coordination between witnesses in the area and the concealed carrier. They quickly and accurately reported information to the police which was then used to trace a list of likely suspects.

WRONG GUY: Armed Robber Killed After Targeting Concealed Carrier

An armed robber In Brooklyn Park—a northwestern suburb of Minneapolis–Saint Paul—chose the wrong person to attempt to rob Monday night, and instead of getting away with cash or jewelry, only collected lead.

Brooklyn Park Police say it appears a man who was fatally shot Monday night was attempting to rob someone who was legally carrying a gun.

Assistant Chief Mark Bruley says the preliminary investigation into the fatal shooting indicates that the man who was killed on the 7500 block of Imperial Drive targeted an individual who had a valid permit to carry a handgun as his victim. Witnesses say there was an exchange of gunfire, and the alleged robber was killed.

Information on the shooting is sketchy, but if this went down like so many recent defensive gun uses have, then the robber probably thought that he had the situation well in hand when he pulled his gun, and more than likely was stunned when the “victim” pulled a legally-concealed handgun. It’s not known from this account who fired first, but it is clear that the concealed carrier put effective rounds on target, while the bad guy didn’t.

There were witnesses to the shootout who apparently corroborate the concealed carrier’s version of events, and it does not look like the investigation will result in charges.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Police: Concealed Permit Holder Saves Officer Surrounded By Mob - Breitbart

*On February 5, an armed citizen saved an Upper Darby police officer who was under assault and encircled by a mob of onlookers.*
Upper Darby Police Superintendent Michael Chitwood said “there is no doubt they would have attacked” the officer without the armed citizen’s intervention.

According to Philly.com, the officer was breaking up a fight between two Upper Darby High School students–after school had let out for the day–and one of the students jumped the officer. Superintendent Chitwood said, “As he breaks up the fight, he takes one kid and then the other jumps [on] him. Now he’s fighting two of them and he’s calling for an assist officer at the same time. There’s a crowd of 40 or 50 kids watching the fight, and they all move in towards the officer.”

An area resident with a concealed carry permit saw the officer struggling and the crowd closing in, so he grabbed his gun and ran to the officer’s defense. The resident ordered the kids to get away from the officer and kept them away until sufficient backup arrived. Chitwood said, “He had the gun in his hand, but he didn’t point it at the kids, he just told them to back off. If this guy didn’t come out and come to the aid of the officer, this officer would have had significant problems.”

The officer who was under attack suffered “significant hand injuries” and the first officer to respond to calls for backup “suffered a major injury to a leg when he was kicked by one of the teens in the fight.”



Employee Stabbed At GM Warren Tech Center, Suspect In Custody

The women got into some kind of verbal dispute, Fouts said, during which the visitor pulled out a steak knife and violently stabbed the employee several times in the neck, abdomen and back.

A nearby valet driver, who also has a concealed pistol license, saw what was happening and rushed to the employee’s aid.

“He pulled the weapon out and stopped the attack from taking place,” said Fouts. “By then, this woman had been stabbed multiple times.”

The driver held the attacker on the ground at gunpoint as other GM workers called 911. Police quickly arrived on the scene and took the suspect into custody as the employee was rushed to the hospital.

She underwent surgery and was last reported in stable condition.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

CCW Permit Holder In CA Holds Burglar At Gunpoint With His Glock Until Police Arrive

FRESNO, CALIFORNIA — A pocket-carrying homeowner took matters into his own hands when he saw someone walking around inside his home as he was outside doing yard work.

That homeowner, who did not want to be identified, says he’s had his concealed carry permit for 50 years in California and it’s the first time he’s ever been forced to draw.

When police arrived, accompanied by helicopter with a good visual on the situation, they found the homeowner with his Glock trained on the suspect, 54-year-old Enrique Garza.

*Police hailed the homeowner’s actions, saying it was a good thing his gun wasn’t sitting inside a safe, out of reach when needed most.

“If not for having a CCW, he probably wouldn’t have his gun on him, it probably would have been locked in a safe, and he wouldn’t have had access to it in order to hold this suspect accountable,” said Fresno County Sheriff’s Office spokesman Tony Botti.*

“You have to learn to be careful in this world, because there’s a lot of crazy people out there,” said the homeowner.

The Fresno County Sheriff’s Office mentioned that before the attacks in San Bernardino, concealed carry permits were issued in about one month. Now after the attacks, demand has skyrocketed, which has created a longer wait time of up to 10 months for permits to be issued.


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## JoeB131 (May 22, 2019)

whitehall said:


> To paraphrase a prominent democrat, "never let a tragedy go to waste if you can turn it into a political issue". Let the system work and the family grieve before y'all (foreign) vultures pounce on the body.



The thing is, the system ISN'T WORKING.  

You see, when a few kids died of accidents involving lawn darts,t hey pulled lawn darts off the market. 

When a few people died of poisoned Tylenol, the pharmaceutical industry implemented safety seals on all the packaging.  

We have gun death after gun death, and the National Rampage Association springs into action to keep even the most basic gun safety laws from going into effect.


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...




More self defense stories....thugs stopped, lives saved.....

DGU of the Day: Trotwood Ohio Woman Defeats Three Home Invaders - The Truth About Guns

Three men break into a home in Trotwood, Ohio. [Click here to watch the video.] They’re all armed. It is before 6 am, just three days after Christmas. One of the men is armed with a Tec-9 pistol. He enters last. The other two hold what appear to be conventional semi-auto pistols. They bypass two sleeping children to find the mother. The surveillance video shows the three following the mother after they pistol whipped her in the laundry room.

The man directly behind her has the Tec-9. Presumably holds her at gunpoint while the other two attempt to drag off a safe, in a room with two more children. While the two men are occupied with the safe, the woman breaks free from her captor, accesses a hidden pistol, and starts to fire.

All three run, but the Tec-9 gunman, Azikiwe Presley, is mortally wounded. His body is found 100 yards from the house. From wdtn.com:

“I got my gun and I started shooting and they ran,” the female caller told dispatchers. “They all three had guns, I’m confused … they must not have had bullets because after I pulled the trigger they just took off, instead of firing back. I don’t know if I hit one or not, I don’t see blood anywhere.”

In this case, the recipient of female dedication to protecting innocent life ran a hundred yards and died. It is not uncommon for a man who is fatally shot to run that far, even with a heart/lung shot. As he was likely the one holding the woman at gunpoint, and the closest, greatest, threat with the Tec-9, it is not surprising that he drew the lethal ticket. Whether through choice or happenstance, the mother made the right tactical decision.

Now....here is the thing.....the gun grabbers on U.S. will first tell us that this never happens.

Next they will tell us that the defender with a gun will never be able to actually use the gun because they aren't Navy Seals.

Next they will say, there is no way a good woman with a gun will ever win because she will be easily disarmed.

So......3 men with guns grab a woman with the element of surprise. They hit her, probably injuring her. She manages to get her gun and shoot the three of them out of her house killing one of the a******s in the process.........and I didn't see anywhere in the article where she was the first woman Navy Seal.

************************
Homeowner Stays Armed In The House — Finds Knife-Wielding Man Inside And It Turns Out Great!

WILLMAR, MINNESOTA — A Willmar homeowner returned home to find a man wielding a knife in the middle of his living room. Using his pistol, which he was licensed to carry, he held the suspect at gunpoint and called 911. During the encounter, he allowed the suspect to leave after putting his buck knife down. Police caught up to the suspect, 37-year-old by the name of Shane Fellers. He was found inside a vehicle being operated by an unknown woman. Both were taken into custody and, according to the West Central Tribune, Fellers was held on a $70,000 unconditional bail for first degree burglary and burglary with a dangerous weapon. He also allegedly supplied the police officer with an incorrect name when he was initially apprehended — tacking on an additional misdemeanor.**********************
Just saw this on the news....Predfan posted it in the firearms thread but this is about the owner of the store.....on the local news he thanked the new concealed carry law and the fact that his employee is a concealed carry permit holder.......I never thought I would see this in Chicago....

T-Mobile store employee shoots 2 armed robbery suspects near 95th, Jeffrey

The T-Mobile store in the 2000-block of East 95th St. was left riddled with bullet holes. If not for the employee carrying a weapon with a concealed carry license, the manager of the store says he might be telling a different story.

"I think concealed carry is a great opportunity for managers, workers, employees to protect themselves in these cases. And our employee did a great job to protect themselves and the other employee," said Neil Tadros, store manager.

He says two men entered the store and acted like they were shopping for phones for a few minutes, then pulled out guns.

One employee ran to the back to call for help while the other pulled out his own gun and fired at the two suspects. He hit one of them in the groin and the arm, and the other in the abdomen and the arm.

The men ran from the store with the employee chasing them, on the phone giving a description to police.

The suspects then drove to a nearby hospital where police took them into custody.

Neighbors say the cell phone store has been robbed several times in the last month. Ed Brown was working in the salon next door.


We need more of these stories and then the criminals will start breaking into stores when no one is in them...that way they won't get shot.....

--------------
Concealed Nation Fan Fends Off Three Home Invaders With M&P Shield

A father and son successfully fought off three home invaders in an early morning all-out fight for survival. Columbus police confirm that there was a home invasion in vicinity of 2:30 am where three suspected attackers kicked in the front door and immediately set to assaulting the son who was first to respond. Thankfully, his father was in the other room and able to flush out the attackers — using nothing less than his future everyday carry pistol, the M&P Shield.

“I come out and this one little one come tried to attack me and I took him out right away, one in the white shirt tried attacking me from the side, tried choking me and that kind of stuff,” says Shawn Howell, “Next thing you know he loses power and I jump up to get up and ready to start cleaning clocks *but I just darted into my room*… I come out and they were flying out the door so fast, I never seen anybody run so fast in my life… they knew what was coming,*they knew I was going for a gun*.”

According to both the victims’ testimony and police statements released through Channel 48 – Nebraska, the attackers fled before the future-concealed carrier could put bullets on target but he allegedly pursued them to their vehicle to “mark the truck”.

Both victims were transported to a nearby hospital where they were treated for superficial wounds sustained during the assault. Both the father and son were attending a concealed carry course to get their concealed carry permits and neither were expecting an attack of this magnitude to occur in their home.

---------


Burglars call 911 on themselves as homeowner holds them at gunpoint

A pair of men who were breaking into a Woodland, Washington, home Monday night got quite a scare when the owner of the house caught them redhanded.

Bill Lahti was surprised to find his home had been burglarized last week, partly because the home, which belonged to Lahti’s great-grandparents years ago and was handed down to him, isn’t exactly in an easy to get to location. The rural property has been dubbed by the Lahti family as “the hill,” and given the home’s history, Lahti was especially appalled at the break-in.

“I kept coming back periodically to check in,” Lahti told KATU. “So, Monday night, I roll up and there’s their truck backed up to the front door in the yard. (The) door was about – probably – four inches open. I could see the light through there. So, I came out there, jumped out of my truck, kicked the door open and there they were.”

Lahti told the two men to get down on their knees as he held them at gunpoint. He was going to call the police on them, but Lahti couldn’t get his phone to work. With his gun still trained on them, he instructed the crooks to make the call themselves. With few options, the suspects complied.

-----



Concealed Carrier Holds Burglar At Gunpoint With Her FNX .45

CLEVELAND, TENNESSEE — A woman successfully subdued a would-be burglar outside her home using her FNX .45. The suspect, James Jeffrey Dunn, was allegedly trying to break in through her front door late at night. She got her handgun and confronted the burglar, according to WRCB. Once at the doorway, she yelled through the door for him to stay put and not move. Moments later, she confronted him head-on — handgun drawn and ready to go.

via WRCB

“I tried to order him to stay right where he was at and I pointed the gun at him and I came running off the porch and I came within 10 feet of him and he laid the bicycle down and he crumpled on top of the bicycle,” she says.

She held him at gunpoint until Cleveland Police arrived and arrested Dunn, 35, on charges of aggravated burglary, theft, and burglary of a motor vehicle. Police note that Dunn had an arrest sheet tallying over 40 charges — the most recent being only 6 hours prior to his attempted burglary of this concealed carrier.

“We went over this when we got my concealed carry permit, these types of scenarios. But I had already put that gun up and ever taken it out since, you know?” she says. “Maybe to go the range once.”

When we talk about the new generation of concealed carriers, let’s take a good long look at the realities these people are facing: hardened, career criminals unafraid to bust through the door or do damage to private property and persons. It’s a good thing this woman had the proper training she needed and the right equipment.



---------------------------------

Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them

LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

"I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired,” said Burns.

It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

"Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."

The men weren't deterred by Dinah's dog Gracie.

"I said, 'Well, what do you want?,' and as I was saying that I reached in to my pocket and slipped my gun out, slipped the safety off as I pulled it out. As I was doing that the other gentleman came toward me and raised the baseball bat. And, I pointed the gun at them and said, 'I have this and I'm not afraid to use it.'"

The men took off and so far have eluded police. Dinah posted about the incident on Facebook to alert friends and neighbors, to criticism by some.

"Most of the males' opinion was, 'Why didn't you shoot them?'"

Easy to second-guess a decision made under pressure, based on her concealed carry training, and police agree.

"To get out of a situation, back out, get out of it as much as you can without having to discharge your firearm."

"I will say it's a good thing to go from a place of danger to a place of safety, however you get that done,” said Sgt. Matt Chambers, Lancaster Police.

"Very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn't happen again, but I will be prepared."

NRA-ILA | Armed homeowner scares off attacker, KTVA, Anchorage, Alaska 11/13/15

A homeowner was in their house in Anchorage, Alaska when they heard a knock at the door. The homeowner retrieved a gun and went to answer the door. Upon opening the door, an intruder pepper-sprayed the homeowner, prompting the homeowner to fire at the criminal. The attacker fled the scene. (KTVA, Anchorage, Alaska 11/13/15)

---------

NRA-ILA | Elderly couple fights off real monsters on Halloween, Helena-Arkansas.com, Helena, Ark. 11/01/15

An elderly couple were at home Halloween night, when the doorbell rang. Prepared to hand out candy to trick-or-treaters, the wife opened the door to find four armed robbers, at least two of whom were armed with guns.

The robbers forced their way inside the home, where the husband was sitting in a recliner. Upon learning of the home invasion, the husband retrieved a gun and fired at the criminals, prompting the home invaders to flee. (Helena-Arkansas.com, Helena, Ark. 11/01/15)


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## JoeB131 (May 22, 2019)

Oh, noes, 2TinyGUy is DGU Spooging all over the thread!  

Ignore these tiny bodies of children who die from gun violence, he's getting his rocks off thinking about some rednecks shooting at their neighbors.


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...




If we had an actual press....these stories would be national news.....

*Armed Citizen Extra*
A valid concealed carry permit holder shot a carjacker who demanded his keys at gunpoint. After a man in a Volkswagen rear-ended a man in a BMW in Chicago one Friday, the man in the BMW got out to asses the damage before returning to his car to get his cell phone. The Volkswagen driver then got out and proceeded to walk up, armed with a firearm to the other driver and push him into the BMW. Both men were inside the BMW when the vehicle's original driver was able to retrieve his own gun, and shoot the attempted carjacker in the head. (wgntv.com, Chicago, Ill., 4/26/19)

CCW Witness to Fatal Stabbing Holds Red-Handed Attacker at Gunpoint [VIDEO] - The Truth About Guns

*The woman, 28-year-old Gabrielle Garcia, was with their five-year-old son at the time and had a standing no-contact order against the father. In full view of his own child as well as many witnesses, the man stabbed Garcia repeatedly, inflicting fatal injuries.*

The man, identified as 29-year-old David Lee Morris, then walked out of the Seattle Center Armory (an indoor dining area) and into the street, still holding the knife and covered in blood. There, he was met by Scott Brown, who works at Skillet restaurant in Seattle Center. It was Brown’s day off, and he was dropping by to say hi to friends.

*“I have a concealed weapons license,” said Brown. “[Morris] was just walking away calmly… I got next to him and I pulled out my gun and stepped in front of him. As soon as he saw that I had a firearm, he started trying to convince me to shoot him. He just kept trying to convince me to shoot him, and I didn’t want to shoot him.”*

Brown did not end up having to shoot Morris (although, based on the video and witness reports, he would have had ample justification).

“Both of his hands were bloody… He was just walking toward the man with the gun,” said Eric DeAngelo, a bystander who recorded a video of the full takedown (see below). “Kept walking toward him. I don’t know what his intention was.”

Morris continued walking toward Brown, asking him to kill him, while Brown kept walking backwards, keeping Morris in his sights for several long minutes.

“I just kept trying to get him to put down the knife,” Brown recalled, “and we kept walking backwards and backwards and backwards. Way too long. I kept looking around for police, security… the point was to hold his focus. There were people everywhere.”

At last, another bystander helped subdue Morris with pepper spray until police arrived and took control. In DeAngelo’s video (around 1:45), you can see Brown looking visibly relieved as he finally puts down his gun.


5/18/18


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

JoeB131 said:


> Oh, noes, 2TinyGUy is DGU Spooging all over the thread!
> 
> Ignore these tiny bodies of children who die from gun violence, he's getting his rocks off thinking about some rednecks shooting at their neighbors.




Dumbass, the other dumbass wanted to see stories of Americans saving lives....I gave him the stories.......the only ones who jump for joy at the bodies of dead children are you and the other anti-gunners.....you likely pray to your god, "Government," that a mass shooter will attack a gun free zone school, so you can have sacrifices of children for your gun control agenda....nothing aids your gun grabbing like dead children....which is a big reason why you want schools to be gun free zones...so your buddies, the mass shooters, have easy access to innocent children...


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

JoeB131 said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > To paraphrase a prominent democrat, "never let a tragedy go to waste if you can turn it into a political issue". Let the system work and the family grieve before y'all (foreign) vultures pounce on the body.
> ...




You guys don't want to fix the problem, you want to ban guns....two different issues...you moron.   Fixing the problem is easy...you end gun free zones which keeps mass public shooters from shooting people...because they don't attack places where people can shoot back.   The other solution, actually locking up violent, repeat, gun offenders....is not what you want either....those criminals shooting other criminals have to be on the street, otherwise you won't have the shootings you need to ban guns....so your anti-gun judges and prosecutors keep letting the actual gun killers out of jail so they can keep killing.....

If you asshats would get out of the way, we could end almost all gun violence...but you asshats need the gun violence to ban guns......


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...




More stories....guns in America saving lives...

CCW Witness to Fatal Stabbing Holds Red-Handed Attacker at Gunpoint [VIDEO] - The Truth About Guns

*The woman, 28-year-old Gabrielle Garcia, was with their five-year-old son at the time and had a standing no-contact order against the father. In full view of his own child as well as many witnesses, the man stabbed Garcia repeatedly, inflicting fatal injuries.*

The man, identified as 29-year-old David Lee Morris, then walked out of the Seattle Center Armory (an indoor dining area) and into the street, still holding the knife and covered in blood. There, he was met by Scott Brown, who works at Skillet restaurant in Seattle Center. It was Brown’s day off, and he was dropping by to say hi to friends.

*“I have a concealed weapons license,” said Brown. “[Morris] was just walking away calmly… I got next to him and I pulled out my gun and stepped in front of him. As soon as he saw that I had a firearm, he started trying to convince me to shoot him. He just kept trying to convince me to shoot him, and I didn’t want to shoot him.”*

Brown did not end up having to shoot Morris (although, based on the video and witness reports, he would have had ample justification).

“Both of his hands were bloody… He was just walking toward the man with the gun,” said Eric DeAngelo, a bystander who recorded a video of the full takedown (see below). “Kept walking toward him. I don’t know what his intention was.”

Morris continued walking toward Brown, asking him to kill him, while Brown kept walking backwards, keeping Morris in his sights for several long minutes.

“I just kept trying to get him to put down the knife,” Brown recalled, “and we kept walking backwards and backwards and backwards. Way too long. I kept looking around for police, security… the point was to hold his focus. There were people everywhere.”

At last, another bystander helped subdue Morris with pepper spray until police arrived and took control. In DeAngelo’s video (around 1:45), you can see Brown looking visibly relieved as he finally puts down his gun.


5/18/18

Father Attacked at McDonald's While Holding Infant Daughter, Shoots One of Four Suspects

*A father who was attacked in Memphis, Tennessee, McDonald’s while holding his infant daughter was able to get his gun and open fire, wounding one of the four attackers.*
WREG quotes police saying “four suspects attempted to rob the victim at the McDonald’s in the 1400 block of South Trezevant near Lamar and Airways.” A witness described a scene in which the suspects tried to catch the father while he was too busy to fight back.

Witness David Chase said, “They jumped out of the car and they started fighting him and trying to take his wallet and stuff.” He added, “He was fighting them. He dropped his baby and started fighting them and the child was just sitting on the concrete.”

Chase then heard gunshots rang out and the suspects fled the scene. It was later learned that the father had managed to get to his gun and fire the shots, wounding one of the suspects.

*ActionNews5 reports that the wounded suspect “showed up later at a nearby fire department” for treatment. His was taken to a hospital in “non-critical condition.”*
*========*

4/5/18

Armed South Carolina Woman Chases Off Daytime Home Invader - The Truth About Guns

When Ms. Reeves ran across Ralph Goss slithering around inside her home yesterday in the middle of the afternoon, she drew her firearm. Staring down that barrel was enough to change Goss’s mind about whatever it was he had planned.

“I’m one of those people that can go from zero to a hundred in 2.5 seconds and I’m not a nice person normally, but as soon as I got on the phone with the sheriff’s department he was out of sight. The severity of it hit me, and I was in hysterics. I was crying, I was scared, I was very shaken.”

Oconee County deputies tracked Goss down within hours of Ms. Reeves’ call. And surprise! He already had several outstanding warrants for his arrest.
===============


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

The thread isn't accepting more gun stories......it isn't copying the rest of them, just that title.......

CCW Witness to Fatal Stabbing Holds Red-Handed Attacker at Gunpoint [VIDEO] - The Truth About Guns

*The woman, 28-year-old Gabrielle Garcia, was with their five-year-old son at the time and had a standing no-contact order against the father. In full view of his own child as well as many witnesses, the man stabbed Garcia repeatedly, inflicting fatal injuries.*

The man, identified as 29-year-old David Lee Morris, then walked out of the Seattle Center Armory (an indoor dining area) and into the street, still holding the knife and covered in blood. There, he was met by Scott Brown, who works at Skillet restaurant in Seattle Center. It was Brown’s day off, and he was dropping by to say hi to friends.

*“I have a concealed weapons license,” said Brown. “[Morris] was just walking away calmly… I got next to him and I pulled out my gun and stepped in front of him. As soon as he saw that I had a firearm, he started trying to convince me to shoot him. He just kept trying to convince me to shoot him, and I didn’t want to shoot him.”*

Brown did not end up having to shoot Morris (although, based on the video and witness reports, he would have had ample justification).

“Both of his hands were bloody… He was just walking toward the man with the gun,” said Eric DeAngelo, a bystander who recorded a video of the full takedown (see below). “Kept walking toward him. I don’t know what his intention was.”

Morris continued walking toward Brown, asking him to kill him, while Brown kept walking backwards, keeping Morris in his sights for several long minutes.

“I just kept trying to get him to put down the knife,” Brown recalled, “and we kept walking backwards and backwards and backwards. Way too long. I kept looking around for police, security… the point was to hold his focus. There were people everywhere.”

At last, another bystander helped subdue Morris with pepper spray until police arrived and took control. In DeAngelo’s video (around 1:45), you can see Brown looking visibly relieved as he finally puts down his gun.


5/18/18

Father Attacked at McDonald's While Holding Infant Daughter, Shoots One of Four Suspects

*A father who was attacked in Memphis, Tennessee, McDonald’s while holding his infant daughter was able to get his gun and open fire, wounding one of the four attackers.*
WREG quotes police saying “four suspects attempted to rob the victim at the McDonald’s in the 1400 block of South Trezevant near Lamar and Airways.” A witness described a scene in which the suspects tried to catch the father while he was too busy to fight back.

Witness David Chase said, “They jumped out of the car and they started fighting him and trying to take his wallet and stuff.” He added, “He was fighting them. He dropped his baby and started fighting them and the child was just sitting on the concrete.”

Chase then heard gunshots rang out and the suspects fled the scene. It was later learned that the father had managed to get to his gun and fire the shots, wounding one of the suspects.

*ActionNews5 reports that the wounded suspect “showed up later at a nearby fire department” for treatment. His was taken to a hospital in “non-critical condition.”
========*

4/5/18

Armed South Carolina Woman Chases Off Daytime Home Invader - The Truth About Guns

When Ms. Reeves ran across Ralph Goss slithering around inside her home yesterday in the middle of the afternoon, she drew her firearm. Staring down that barrel was enough to change Goss’s mind about whatever it was he had planned.

“I’m one of those people that can go from zero to a hundred in 2.5 seconds and I’m not a nice person normally, but as soon as I got on the phone with the sheriff’s department he was out of sight. The severity of it hit me, and I was in hysterics. I was crying, I was scared, I was very shaken.”

Oconee County deputies tracked Goss down within hours of Ms. Reeves’ call. And surprise! He already had several outstanding warrants for his arrest.
===============


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

CCW Witness to Fatal Stabbing Holds Red-Handed Attacker at Gunpoint [VIDEO] - The Truth About Guns


CWB Chicago: River North: Motorist With Concealed-Carry Saves Victim From 3-On-1 Beat-Down And Robbery


*The woman, 28-year-old Gabrielle Garcia, was with their five-year-old son at the time and had a standing no-contact order against the father. In full view of his own child as well as many witnesses, the man stabbed Garcia repeatedly, inflicting fatal injuries.*

The man, identified as 29-year-old David Lee Morris, then walked out of the Seattle Center Armory (an indoor dining area) and into the street, still holding the knife and covered in blood. There, he was met by Scott Brown, who works at Skillet restaurant in Seattle Center. It was Brown’s day off, and he was dropping by to say hi to friends.

*“I have a concealed weapons license,” said Brown. “[Morris] was just walking away calmly… I got next to him and I pulled out my gun and stepped in front of him. As soon as he saw that I had a firearm, he started trying to convince me to shoot him. He just kept trying to convince me to shoot him, and I didn’t want to shoot him.”*

Brown did not end up having to shoot Morris (although, based on the video and witness reports, he would have had ample justification).

“Both of his hands were bloody… He was just walking toward the man with the gun,” said Eric DeAngelo, a bystander who recorded a video of the full takedown (see below). “Kept walking toward him. I don’t know what his intention was.”

Morris continued walking toward Brown, asking him to kill him, while Brown kept walking backwards, keeping Morris in his sights for several long minutes.

“I just kept trying to get him to put down the knife,” Brown recalled, “and we kept walking backwards and backwards and backwards. Way too long. I kept looking around for police, security… the point was to hold his focus. There were people everywhere.”

At last, another bystander helped subdue Morris with pepper spray until police arrived and took control. In DeAngelo’s video (around 1:45), you can see Brown looking visibly relieved as he finally puts down his gun.


5/18/18

Father Attacked at McDonald's While Holding Infant Daughter, Shoots One of Four Suspects

*A father who was attacked in Memphis, Tennessee, McDonald’s while holding his infant daughter was able to get his gun and open fire, wounding one of the four attackers.*
WREG quotes police saying “four suspects attempted to rob the victim at the McDonald’s in the 1400 block of South Trezevant near Lamar and Airways.” A witness described a scene in which the suspects tried to catch the father while he was too busy to fight back.

Witness David Chase said, “They jumped out of the car and they started fighting him and trying to take his wallet and stuff.” He added, “He was fighting them. He dropped his baby and started fighting them and the child was just sitting on the concrete.”

Chase then heard gunshots rang out and the suspects fled the scene. It was later learned that the father had managed to get to his gun and fire the shots, wounding one of the suspects.

*ActionNews5 reports that the wounded suspect “showed up later at a nearby fire department” for treatment. His was taken to a hospital in “non-critical condition.”
========*

4/5/18

Armed South Carolina Woman Chases Off Daytime Home Invader - The Truth About Guns

When Ms. Reeves ran across Ralph Goss slithering around inside her home yesterday in the middle of the afternoon, she drew her firearm. Staring down that barrel was enough to change Goss’s mind about whatever it was he had planned.

“I’m one of those people that can go from zero to a hundred in 2.5 seconds and I’m not a nice person normally, but as soon as I got on the phone with the sheriff’s department he was out of sight. The severity of it hit me, and I was in hysterics. I was crying, I was scared, I was very shaken.”

Oconee County deputies tracked Goss down within hours of Ms. Reeves’ call. And surprise! He already had several outstanding warrants for his arrest.
===============


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...




 Monday, May 6, 2019
In Texas, a 38-year-old man seeking to buy an iPhone agreed to meet with a supposed seller. The purchaser answered an ad posted on a social media app and went to an agreed location in rural Galveston County. Using having to go to work early as an excuse, the would-be seller arranged the meeting time for 5 a.m. After the potential buyer arrived, he was handed an empty box by the seller, who then attempted to rob him. In response, the armed citizen used his firearm in self-defense and shot the apparent thief three times. The wounded man was taken to a hospital and pronounced dead upon arrival. (thou.com, Houston, Texas, 2/20/19)

*Armed Citizen Extra*
An old fashioned cat burglar was stopped in his tracks one Wednesday morning in Lancaster, Ky. After entering a local business through the roof, the intruder was confronted by the owner, who lives there. As if that weren't enough, the unwelcome visitor then threatened the owner who, not taking kindly to the promise of violence, shot him. The injury was not life threatening, and the burglar was released from a hospital shortly afterward, into the custody of a local detention center. (_WKYT,_ Lancaster, Ky., 4/24/19)


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...




 Friday, May 3, 2019

In Tennessee, a husband and wife were disturbed at night by banging noises against their house. Concerned, the husband armed himself with his shotgun and opened his door to find two men (later identified as brothers) waiting there. The homeowner ordered the men to go away. Pushing his way inside, one man chased the homeowner in the house, following him into his bedroom. In response, the homeowner fired and wounded the intruder in the shoulder. Charges were pending against one of the intruders. (wjhl.com, Johnson City, Tenn., 2/25/19)

*Armed Citizen Extra*
After three suspects ambushed his father, forced him to let them into his house, and then threatened one of his sisters, a Houston man took action. After arriving home and realizing something was wrong, he quickly rushed inside the house and grabbed a pistol, firing at the criminals who had broken into his family home and terrorized its occupants. One intruder, who had his own pistol, was shot in the head and died. The other two jumped on his mother's car, with his mother still inside. She was able to drive off, while they stole the vehicle belonging to the homeowner's father, and got away. (abc13.com, Houston, Texas, 4/10/19)


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...



Monday, April 29, 2019

A deli owner in Cleveland, Ohio, defended himself against would-be armed robbers. Hiding their faces, two men in hooded sweatshirts entered the deli on a Sunday morning. One of the men held a firearm, tried to force his way past the counter, and ordered the deli owner to open his cash register. but the owner had his own firearm, which he pulled out and fired at both men. They escaped and were still at large. (fox8.com, Cleveland, Ohio, 3/3/19)

*Armed Citizen Extra*
An armed mother in Burlington exchanged fire with a burglar in defense of her home and son early one Wednesday morning. After being alerted by the sound of the intruder breaking into the kitchen, she quickly went to investigate, bringing along her firearm. Upon seeing her, the burglar opened fire. When she returned fire however, the reversal prompted him to climb back out the window whence he entered, and run off. Police are still looking for the criminal. (myfox8.com, Burlington, N.C., 4/10/19)


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...



 Friday, April 26, 2019

*Armed Citizen Extra*
After a man tried to break into a home, shouting for his girlfriend, the homeowner was forced to act. First alerted by a loud banging on the rear door, the homeowner found the man first beating on the door then, after he was asked to leave, attempting to reach through the pet door to unlock the entryway. After the homeowner knocked the man's arm away from the knob, he backed away undeterred, and began lobbing rocks at the door. The homeowner continued to admonish the man to leave, even yelling "I will shoot you!" several times. The man ignored the warnings, however, and managed to unlock the back door and enter the house, at which point the homeowner shot him in the leg. (Arizona Daily Independent, Navajo County, Ariz., 3/31/2019)


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...



Monday, April 22, 2019

An armed citizen of the Hoosier State received an early-morning surprise while entering his car. The Kokomo, Ind., resident was getting into his car when a suspicious man wearing a bandana entered his car without warning. The driver armed himself with his firearm and informed the suspect he was armed. This did not deter the would-be carjacker, who pulled out a handgun of his own. In response, the armed citizen fired several times at the suspect, who fled the vehicle without a fight and without firing his weapon. It is unknown if the suspect was struck, and the investigation is ongoing. (theindychannel.com, Kokomo, Ind., 2/4/19)

*Armed Citizen Extra*
After being bloodied and threatened by a hitchhiker he picked up in Duquesne, a 73-year-old Pennsylvania man was forced to think quickly. Having just minutes earlier picked up a male and female hitchhiker, the driver became suspicious when the male passenger began sending him along an alley. Suddenly, the passenger told him to stop his SUV, informed the driver he was going to rob him and hit him with a pistol. Though bleeding, the driver managed to exit the car. While the female passenger ran off, the man followed the driver out and leveled a gun at him. It was at this point that the driver fatally shot the would-be robber three times with this own legally carried pistol, resolving the incident. (Pittsburgh's Action 4 News, Duquesne, Pa., 4/4/19)


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...




Friday, April 19, 2019

A disgruntled customer opened fire on employees in an IHOP during a late-night food run. The 25-year-old customer arrived at the restaurant to pick up a carry-out order and argued with one of the employees over it. Eyewitnesses reported seeing the disturbed customer leave the chain restaurant and return with a pistol in hand. Police say the customer started firing at employees and killed a 56-year-old worker. One wounded employee pulled a concealed-carry gun and returned fire at the shooter in defense of himself and others, killing the suspected attacker. The armed citizen was taken to the hospital for treatment. (tribtown.com, Huntsville, Ala., 1/17/19)

*Armed Citizen Extra*
A pre-dawn home invasion was thwarted by an armed citizen early one Friday morning. As two men attempted to break into a Centreville home, the homeowner opened fire, hitting one man in the neck. The wounded man was taken to a nearby hospital for treatment, while the other intruder, believed to be armed, fled the scene. (Belleville News-Democrat, Centerville, Ill., 3/22/19)


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...



Monday, April 15, 2019

Out in Boyds Mills, Pa., a man in his 90s awoke to the sound of someone banging loudly on the rear entrance of his home. The elderly homeowner approached the door with his gun to investigate the situation. Outside, there was an unknown man who was demanding to be let inside for a cigarette. The homeowner refused to provide entry and told the man to leave the premises. Undeterred, the trespasser stated that he was coming inside anyway and pulled a weapon from his pocket. Fearing for his life, the armed citizen raised and fired his gun—hitting the trespasser in the leg—before retreating to his bedroom and calling 911. Police arrived and transported the wounded trespasser to the hospital before filing charges against him. (The Wayne Independent, Boyds Mills, Pa., 1/15/19)

*Armed Citizen Extra*
An attempted home robbery went badly for the robbers one Wednesday afternoon in Chattanooga, Tenn. After a relative of the homeowner let some burglars in through the front door, before demanding money himself, the intended victim sprang quickly into action. Seizing a nearby pistol, the homeowner commenced firing at the intruders, hitting and fatally wounding one. A brief physical altercation with his relative, who ultimately fled, ended the affair. (Times Free Press, Chattanooga, Tenn., 3/27/2019)


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...




And more....

Monday, April 8, 2019

In the early morning hours in Temecula, Calif., a retired Marine awoke to the sounds of a break-in. Arming himself with a handgun, the homeowner went to confront two would-be burglars who had entered his rural residence. One of the suspects opened fire on the Marine. This act resulted in a shootout inside the home. After emptying his firearm, the homeowner retreated to another room, as the two suspects fled. One of the suspected attackers, who apparently had been hit by the armed citizen during the incident, was taken to the hospital for treatment with gunshot injuries. Sheriff’s deputies responded to an emergency call at the residence and alerted local hospitals to watch for suspicious people with gunshot injuries. Deputies soon learned of a man at a hospital who was believed to have been involved in the shootout with the retired Marine, and an investigation was launched into the incident. (riversidecountynewssource.org, Temecula, Calif., 12/20/19)

*Armed Citizen Extra*
In what appears to be an increasing trend amongst would-be thieves, a man was forced to kill an assailant he was meeting up with, purportedly to buy a PlayStation. According to police, after linking up with the man on an online reselling app, the buyer drove to an apartment complex to pick up the purchase, but instead was approached in his vehicle by a masked man with a rifle. A concealed-carry permit holder, the man drew his own firearm and began shooting, which proved fatal to his attacker. (abc13.com, Houston, Texas, 03/27/19)


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...




And more....the stories that are allowed into the news.....

Friday, April 5, 2019

An armed citizen provided timely aid to a store employee who was assaulted by two shoplifters. In Loomis, Calif., a man and woman walked into a store and apparently attempted to leave with more than $50 worth of goods. A store employee confronted the pair over the alleged theft and was attacked by the male shoplifter with a knife. As the pair scuffled, the woman picked up the knife in an attempt to injure the worker as well. A bystander with a concealed-carry permit saw the incident and drew a firearm—ordering the woman to drop the knife and remain where she was. Officers soon arrived and arrested the pair for multiple criminal violations. (The Sacramento Bee, Loomis, Calif., 1/4/19)

*The Armed Citizen Extra*
A clerk at a Nashville auto parts store defended his store, and his life, one Wednesday afternoon. After having an argument with a customer earlier in the day, he saw the same customer pull back up to the store with a shotgun-wielding friend, who began to advance toward the store. The clerk, acting quickly, drew his pistol and shot the man as he advanced, sending him to the hospital with a critical chest wound. (News Channel 5, Nashville, Tenn, 3/13/19)


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## M14 Shooter (May 22, 2019)

2aguy said:


> And more....the stories that are allowed into the news.....


You know he doesn't really care - right?
He simply hates guns and no amount of evidence of their good use will change that.


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

M14 Shooter said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > And more....the stories that are allowed into the news.....
> ...




Yep.....but now if anyone not usually interested in guns and self defense jumps into the thread, or other 2nd Amendment supporters see the thread, they now have information they won't get in any other place......  That is one of the reasons I engage morons like Tommy and Joe.....and it also helps polish up my skills at debating the topic......I wouldn't have access to the information I have if I didn't engage morons like them....


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...




And here....

Cabbie shoots would-be armed robber, police say

A robbery suspect was shot by his intended victim Monday morning at Greenwood Manor Apartments.

City police said a local cab driver picked up the suspect on the Indiana State University campus before 10:45 a.m. Monday and took him to an apartment on 19th Street.


Officer Ryan Adamson said the suspect exited the 1st Choice cab and then pulled a gun on the cab driver, intending to rob the man. The cab driver, however, pulled out a firearm and shot the suspect, who then ran off.

Police found the suspect in the 2100 block of 231/2 Drive after he called for medical help, Adamson said. The suspect was taken to a local hospital for medical treatment of non-life-threatening injuries.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 22, 2019)

2aguy said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...



I give it maybe 24 hours before Taint is back here, telling us how there's no proof of these "false" numbers of gun defenses and how it really doesn't exist, because he has once again completely ignored the proof he demanded.


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## Tommy Tainant (May 22, 2019)

2aguy said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> ...


Some truly heroic stories there. Not very many though.


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## 2aguy (May 22, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



Those are the stories that make the news....the stories where the victim runs off the criminal don't make the news.....since there isn't a need to report a rape, robbery or attempted murder that didn't happen because the victim drove off the criminal before the violent crime was completed against the victim.


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## 2aguy (May 24, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...



Here you go...

Woman shoots, kills intruder at her Kaufman County home

The woman called 911 around 9:45 a.m. to report a "burglary in progress" at her home in the 8000 block of FM 2757 in an unincorporated part of Kaufman County, according to the sheriff's office. 
---

The woman said she heard someone kick in her back door, so she went into another room and locked herself in a closet. She stayed on the phone with 911 "until she was confronted by the intruder," according to the sheriff's office. 

The man, identified as 46-year-old Nikusubila N. A. Makwangwala, of Dallas, was found dead inside the home when sheriff deputies arrived.


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## 2aguy (May 24, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...




Here you go...

Homeowner shoots man who broke into his Uptown home


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## Tommy Tainant (May 25, 2019)

2aguy said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


So your claims can only be validated by events that nobody has any record of ?


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## Ambivalent1 (May 25, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...



You aren't getting our guns wanker.


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## 2aguy (May 25, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...




Nope, as the 17 studies show, they used actual research methods to ferret out gun self defense that goes under reported in the news.....the Centers for Disease Control did this research as well as the Department of Justice.....


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## C_Clayton_Jones (May 25, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> > Yet another gun thread with nothing but deflections and lies from the right, and as usual no viable solutions.
> ...


No, it’s yet another example of how dishonest most conservatives are about the issue.

What conservatives know is that no one advocates for ‘banning’ or ‘confiscating’ guns.

But ‘guns’ is a hot-button issue for conservatives, a way to keep the base engaged and energized and to further divide the American people for some perceived partisan gain.

So to further perpetuate the unwarranted fear about ‘bans’ and ‘confiscation’ conservatives maintain their lies, and offer no viable solutions.


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## progressive hunter (May 25, 2019)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > C_Clayton_Jones said:
> ...


LIAR!!!!


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## C_Clayton_Jones (May 25, 2019)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> ...


This fails as both a false comparison fallacy and a red herring fallacy.

The measures proposed by those concerned with gun deaths among children are perfectly Constitutional; seeking to ‘ban’ abortion and to compel women to give birth against their will through force of law is not.

And the topic is the gun deaths of children, not abortion – your post is a failed attempt to deflect from that issue.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (May 25, 2019)

2aguy said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> ...


Having nothing whatsoever to do with preventing gun deaths among children.

And such anecdotal incidents have no bearing on the fact the carrying of firearms in no manner ‘decreases’ crime.

Study: Concealed Handgun Permits Don't Affect Crime Rate


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## RetiredGySgt (May 25, 2019)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > C_Clayton_Jones said:
> ...


You lying piece of horseshit we have several people RUNNING for President that CLEARLY Stated they would ban Firearms all of them if they could,


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## progressive hunter (May 25, 2019)

RetiredGySgt said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


lying is what clayton does best,,,


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## 2aguy (May 25, 2019)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > C_Clayton_Jones said:
> ...




Banning guns is the policy of every member of the democrat party leadership......you are an idiot who tries to convince other fools that pissing on our legs is actually rain....


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## 2aguy (May 25, 2019)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > C_Clayton_Jones said:
> ...




We actually offer real solutions....you have none, which is why you morons have stopped stating your "Solutions."   Every time you state your "Solutions" you are exposed as fools because nothing you propose would stop criminals or mass public shooters, which we explain in great detail and which drives you nuts.... and no, it wouldn't lower the crime rates so we should try it, either.  Nothing you propose would do the slightest thing to stop criminals or mass shooters.....each thing you propose simply ratchets down the Right to own guns for normal people.....


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## 2aguy (May 25, 2019)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...




You mean except for all of these studies.......you have one, by anti-gun zealots.......I have 18, and these are the ones with easily accessible quotes......not behind paywalls...

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Bartley-Cohen-Economic-Inquiry-1998.pdf


_The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998_ (Copy available here)

.....we find strong support for the hypothesis that the right-to-carry laws are associated with a decrease in the trend in violent crime rates.....

 Paper........CCW does not increase police deaths...

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Mustard-JLE-Polic-Deaths-Gun-Control.pdf

This paper uses state-level data from 1984–96 to examine how right-to-carry laws and waiting periods affect the felonious deaths of police. Some people oppose concealed weapons carry laws because they believe these laws jeopardize law enforcement officials, who risk their lives to protect the citizenry. This paper strongly rejects this contention. States that allowed law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons had a slightly higher likelihood of having a felonious police death and slightly higher police death rates prior to the law. After enactment of the right-to-carry laws, states exhibit a reduced likelihood of having a felonious police death rate and slightly lower rates of police deaths. States that implement waiting periods have slightly lower felonious police death rates both before and after the law. Allowing law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons does not endanger the lives of officers and may help reduce their risk of being killed

========

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/tideman.pdf


_Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001_

However, for all three crime categories the levels in years 2 and 3 after adoption of a right-to-carry law are significantly below the levels in the years before the adoption of the law, which suggests that there is generally a deterrent effect and that it takes about 1 year for this effect to emerge.

=======

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/323313

*Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness**




Carlisle E. Moody
College of William and Mary
 Overall, right‐to‐carry concealed weapons laws tend to reduce violent crime. The effect on property crime is more uncertain. I find evidence that these laws also reduce burglary.
====
http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Helland-Tabarrok-Placebo-Laws.pdf
*Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime”∗ Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok*

We also find, however, that the cross equation restrictions implied by the Lott-Mustard theory are supported.
-----
Surprisingly, therefore, we conclude that there is considerable support for the hypothesis that shall-issue laws cause criminals to substitute away from crimes against persons and towards crimes against property. 
===========
http://johnrlott.tripod.com/Maltz.pdf


_Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001_

Our results indicated that the direction of effect of the shall-issue law on total SHR homicide rates was similar to that obtained by Lott and Mustard, although the magnitude of the effect was somewhat smaller and was statistically significant at the 7 percent level. In our analysis, which included only counties with a 1977 population of 100,000 or more, laws allowing for concealed weapons were associated with a 6.52 percent reduction in total homicides (Table 2). By comparison, Lott and Mustard found the concealed weapon dummy variable to be associated with a 7.65 percent reduction in total homicides across all counties and a 9 percent reduction in homicides when only large counties (populations of 100,000 or more) were included.43

===============

This one shows the benefits, in the billions of CCW laws...

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/Plassmann_Whitley.pdf

*COMMENTS Confirming ìMore Guns, Less Crimeî Florenz Plassmann* & John Whitley** *

CONCLUSION Analyzing county-level data for the entire United States from 1977 to 2000, we find annual reductions in murder rates between 1.5% and 2.3% for each additional year that a right-to-carry law is in effect. For the first five years that such a law is in effect, the total benefit from reduced crimes usually ranges between about $2 and $3 billion per year. The results are very similar to earlier estimates using county-level data from 1977 to 1996. We appreciate the continuing effort that Ayres and Donohue have made in discussing the impact of right-to-carry laws on crime rates. Yet we believe that both the new evidence provided by them as well as our new results show consistently that right-to-carry laws reduce crime and save lives. Unfortunately, a few simple mistakes lead Ayres and Donohue to incorrectly claim that crime rates significantly increase after right-to-carry laws are initially adopted and to misinterpret the significance of their own estimates that examined the year-to-year impact of the law. 

=============

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content...An-Exercise-in-Replication.proof_.revised.pdf

 ~ The Impact of Right-to-Carry Laws on Crime: An Exercise in Replication1

 Carlisle E. Moody College of William and Mary - Department of Economics, Virginia 23187, U.S.A. E-mail: cemood@wm.edu Thomas B. Marvell Justec Research, Virginia 23185, U.S.A. Paul R. Zimmerman U.S. Federal Trade Commission - Bureau of Economics, Washington, D.C., U.S.A. Fasil Alemante College of William and Mary, Virginia 23187, U.S.A.


 Abstract: In an article published in 2011, Aneja, Donohue and Zhang found that shall-issue or right-to-carry (RTC) concealed weapons laws have no effect on any crime except for a positive effect on assault. This paper reports a replication of their basic findings and some corresponding robustness checks, which reveal a serious omitted variable problem. Once corrected for omitted variables, the most robust result, confirmed using both county and state data, is that RTC laws significantly reduce murder. There is no robust, consistent evidence that RTC laws have any significant effect on other violent crimes, including assault. There is some weak evidence that RTC laws increase robbery and assault while decreasing rape. Given that the victim costs of murder and rape are much higher than the costs of robbery and assault, the evidence shows that RTC laws are socially beneficial.

=======

States with lower guns = higher murder....and assault weapon ban pointless..

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13504851.2013.854294

*An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates*
Mark Gius

Abstract
The purpose of the present study is to determine the effects of state-level assault weapons bans and concealed weapons laws on state-level murder rates. Using data for the period 1980 to 2009 and controlling for state and year fixed effects, the results of the present study suggest that states with restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons had higher gun-related murder rates than other states. It was also found that assault weapons bans did not significantly affect murder rates at the state level. These results suggest that restrictive concealed weapons laws may cause an increase in gun-related murders at the state level. The results of this study are consistent with some prior research in this area, most notably Lott and Mustard (1997).





Taking apart ayre and donahue one....




_“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008 It is also available here.._



*Abstract*
_“Shall-issue” laws require authorities to issue concealed-weapons permits to anyone who applies, unless the applicant has a criminal record or a history of mental illness. A large number of studies indicate that shall-issue laws reduce crime. Only one study, an influential paper in the Stanford Law Review (2003) by Ian Ayres and John J. Donohue iii, implies that these laws lead to an increase in crime. We apply an improved version of the Ayres and Donohue method to a more extensive data set. Our analysis, as well as Ayres and Donohue’s when projected beyond a five-year span, indicates that shall-issue laws decrease crime and the costs of crime. Purists in statistical analysis object with some cause to some of methods employed both by Ayres and Donohue and by us. But our paper upgrades Ayres and Donohue, so, until the next study comes along, our paper should neutralize Ayres and Donohue’s “more guns, more crime” conclusion._

_Summary and Conclusion Many articles have been published finding that shall-issue laws reduce crime. Only one article, by Ayres and Donohue who employ a model that combines a dummy variable with a post-law trend, claims to find that shall-issue laws increase crime. However, the only way that they can produce the result that shall-issue laws increase crime is to confine the span of analysis to five years. We show, using their own estimates, that if they had extended their analysis by one more year, they would have concluded that these laws reduce crime. Since most states with shallissue laws have had these laws on the books for more than five years, and the law will presumably remain on the books for some time, the only relevant analysis extends beyond five years. We extend their analysis by adding three more years of data, control for the effects of crack cocaine, control for dynamic effects, and correct the standard errors for clustering. We find that there is an initial increase in crime due to passage of the shall-issue law that is dwarfed over time by the decrease in crime associated with the post-law trend. These results are very similar to those of Ayres and Donohue, properly interpreted. The modified Ayres and Donohue model finds that shall-issue laws significantly reduce murder and burglary across all the adopting states. These laws appear to significantly increase assault, and have no net effect on rape, robbery, larceny, or auto theft. However, in the long run only the trend coefficients matter. We estimate a net benefit of $450 million per year as a result of the passage of these laws. We also estimate that, up through 2000, there was a cumulative overall net benefit of these laws of $28 billion since their passage. We think that there is credible statistical evidence that these laws lower the costs of crime. 

*But at the very least, the present study should neutralize any “more guns, more crime” thinking based on Ayres and Donohue’s work in the Stanford Law Review. We acknowledge that, especially in light of the methodological issues of the literature in general, the magnitudes derived from our analysis of crime statistics and the supposed costs of crime might be dwarfed by other considerations in judging the policy issue. *


Some might contend that allowing individuals to carry a concealed weapon is a moral or cultural bad. Others might contend that greater liberty is a moral or cultural good. All we are confident in saying is that the evidence, such as it is, seems to support the hypothesis that the shall-issue law is generally beneficial with respect to its overall long run effect on crime._



The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws · Econ Journal Watch : shall-issue, crime, handguns, concealed weapons


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## Tommy Tainant (May 25, 2019)

2aguy said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


So for events that happened, for example, in April where can I go to study the reports ? Who keeps the log ?


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## M14 Shooter (May 25, 2019)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> What conservatives know is that no one advocates for ‘banning’ or ‘confiscating’ guns.


This is an outright lie - in fact, at least one of the Democrats up for President wants that very thing.


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## M14 Shooter (May 25, 2019)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> The measures proposed by those concerned with gun deaths among children are perfectly Constitutional;


This is a lie; you are well aware of the fact a legal requirement for a gun owner to secure his guns is unconstitutional.


> seeking to ‘ban’ abortion and to compel women to give birth against their will through force of law is not.


This is a lie; you are well aware of the fact Roe v Wade gives the state broad power in regard for any pregnancy in its 3rd trimester, including prohibition of same.

Why do you need to lie to make a point?


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## M14 Shooter (May 25, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> So for events that happened, for example, in April where can I go to study the reports ? Who keeps the log ?


What's that?
Forced to move the goalposts?
No surprise.


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## Tommy Tainant (May 25, 2019)

M14 Shooter said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > So for events that happened, for example, in April where can I go to study the reports ? Who keeps the log ?
> ...


Goalposts haven't moved. I am interested in the primary sources, not exaggerated claims. Perhaps you can point me in the right direction.


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## K9Buck (May 25, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident
> 
> Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.
> 
> ...



Just pretend he was aborted, then you will no longer give a fuck.


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## M14 Shooter (May 25, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


No you aren't.
Does the fact an event is not recorded by the state mean said even did not occur?


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## M14 Shooter (May 25, 2019)

Oh hey!  Look what as on the news tonight:

*Would-be robber shows hatchet, clerk pulls out gun*
Would-be robber shows hatchet, clerk pulls out gun


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## Tommy Tainant (May 26, 2019)

M14 Shooter said:


> Oh hey!  Look what as on the news tonight:
> 
> *Would-be robber shows hatchet, clerk pulls out gun*
> Would-be robber shows hatchet, clerk pulls out gun


Spamming up the thread with anecdotal nonsense shows how little you have. Where are all the other verified incidents ?


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## 2aguy (May 26, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > Oh hey!  Look what as on the news tonight:
> ...




I gave you 17 studies conducted by both private and government research groups...including the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice.....you refuse to acknowledge those sources and then, after demanding actual stories, you dismiss those too.....

Typical anti-gun zealot....


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## RetiredGySgt (May 26, 2019)

2aguy said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > M14 Shooter said:
> ...


What did you expect? That this lying piece of human excrement would admit he is wrong?


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## 2aguy (May 26, 2019)

RetiredGySgt said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



Nope...just pointing out for the random reader the typical behavior of those who oppose people saving lives with guns....


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## M14 Shooter (May 26, 2019)

Tommy Tainant said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > Oh hey!  Look what as on the news tonight:
> ...


...proof?
Yeah, I know -- you hate to be proven wrong.
Not my problem, however.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 28, 2019)

M14 Shooter said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > M14 Shooter said:
> ...



What he actually thinks is if the US Government is reporting information that doesn't fit his personal agenda, that means it's the US government that's wrong and unreliable, not his agenda.


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