# One more reason why republicans will lose big in 2014



## ron4342

After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there) and that if the republicans wanted to remain relevant they needed to change also. The recommendation was that the republican party needs to actively work toward bringing Hispanics into the party.
They have a perfect chance to do that now but I fully expect that the republican party will once again shoot themselves in the foot. What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do. This places the republicans in a bind. Should they strongly support a sweeping immigration plan (similar to what Obama is offering) OR should they dig in their heels and refuse to accept any plan Obama offers just as they have done throughout the last five years.
I am betting that the republicans will dig in their heels and refuse to offer a plan similar to Obama's. In other words, they will once again play the obstruction card and in the process slap the people who could help them win elections in the face. And then, after losing the Hispanic vote by a wide margin in 2014, they will once again scratch their heads and ask "Why did we lose? I don't understand."


----------



## Meister

In regards to immigration....is it too much to ask to close the border first, before going any further?  I mean, it was supposed to be closed after the Reagan amnesty.....right????
I think that's the biggest hang up with immigration.

It's hard to deal with a party who's intent is to redistribute wealth in this country.....the takers will always vote for that.  Hopefully there will be enough democrats who are beginning to feel the pinch of the redistribution of wealth regarding Obamacare.  People tend to be lax regarding politics until it hits home with them, then they catch on quickly.


----------



## ScienceRocks

We need a plan that 1. Makes either hard working or education seeking hispanics a chance to become citizens. 2. One that enforces our borders and 3. that fines the shit out of businesses that hires them in the future.

The republicans need to do this before they lose as I want 2 and 3. Funding for education as education = less poverty and less poverty = less gangs.


----------



## bayoubill

ron4342 said:


> One more reason why republicans will lose big in 2014



Three reasons why the GOP will lose big in 2014:

1) The GOP is incredibly tone-deaf regarding the way they present themselves and their positons...

2) The media is generally quick to paint the GOP in an unfavorable light... and the GOP lately has given them plenty of ammunition...

3) A great majority of the American people are unfortunately unable or unwilling to sort through the bullshit to find the truth... which the GOP, in its pathetically inept way, has been trying to present with little success...


----------



## OKTexas

Securing the border and a workable entry/exit system is needed before anything else is considered. That will be the republican focus. Once the flood gates are closed then the rest can be addressed. The senate plan is dead because it is unconstitutional, it contains revenue raising aspects in fees and fines that must originate in the house.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Not at all, OKTexas, that won't pass the Senate.

All three components must be passed in the same bill.

If not the reactionaries will renege on the other two, if only a close the border bill is passed first.

The Dems and business are willing to have no bill pass because they will benefit, one at the ballot box and the other in the cash box.


----------



## OKTexas

JakeStarkey said:


> Not at all, OKTexas, that won't pass the Senate.
> 
> All three components must be passed in the same bill.
> 
> If not the reactionaries will renege on the other two, if only a close the border bill is passed first.
> 
> The Dems and business are willing to have no bill pass because they will benefit, one at the ballot box and the other in the cash box.



You mean like the commies reneged on border security with Reagan?  We can actually learn from history here and not make the same mistakes again. Security will be first with the house all else is dead until that is accomplished.


----------



## JakeStarkey

What commies in the GOP reneged on the bill, OK?

Doesn't matter what is first in the House if it is dead in the Senate on arrival.

Only the Dems and business win with no bill, not the GOP.  Americans faith in our GOP is at historic lows.


----------



## OKTexas

JakeStarkey said:


> What commies in the GOP reneged on the bill, OK?
> 
> Doesn't matter what is first in the House if it is dead in the Senate on arrival.
> 
> Only the Dems and business win with no bill, not the GOP.  Americans faith in our GOP is at historic lows.



Jakey the dems lost all credibility on security when your dear leader refused to complete the fence that the law said, the secretary WILL build, not optional and the dem congress let him get away with it. Yes both houses were controlled by dems at that time. The republicans won't make that mistake again. I've told my congressman that criminal penalties should be incorporated in any new law for any administration official that fails to follow the law. It's way past time to hold these politicians and bureaucrats accountable, maybe the threat of jail will get their attention.


----------



## JohnL.Burke

I'm for a comprehensive immigration program that involves securing the border first. Of course nothing is going to happen because Obamacare is sucking out all the oxygen from other debates. Perhaps immigration reform will be discussed seriously in a couple of years but not any time soon.


----------



## ron4342

OKTexas said:


> Securing the border and a workable entry/exit system is needed before anything else is considered. That will be the republican focus. Once the flood gates are closed then the rest can be addressed. The senate plan is dead because it is unconstitutional, it contains revenue raising aspects in fees and fines that must originate in the house.


It is interesting to note that President Obama has deported more people to Mexico than any other president. Will you give him any praise for that? Of course not.  The bottom line is Obama will push for an immigration plan.  The gop, thanks to the tea party, will refuse to pass it.  The Hispanics will see who is trying to help them and they will show their anger for the gop at the polls.  In other words, THE GOP WILL SHOT THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT ONCE AGAIN.


----------



## JakeStarkey

OKTexas said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> What commies in the GOP reneged on the bill, OK?
> 
> Doesn't matter what is first in the House if it is dead in the Senate on arrival.
> 
> Only the Dems and business win with no bill, not the GOP.  Americans faith in our GOP is at historic lows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jakey the dems lost all credibility on security when your dear leader refused to complete the fence that the law said, the secretary WILL build, not optional and the dem congress let him get away with it. Yes both houses were controlled by dems at that time. The republicans won't make that mistake again. I've told my congressman that criminal penalties should be incorporated in any new law for any administration official that fails to follow the law. It's way past time to hold these politicians and bureaucrats accountable, maybe the threat of jail will get their attention.
Click to expand...


(1) The public trusts neither party since dear leader Reagan.

(2) The Pubs made the mistake when they controlled all branches of the governments by not doing so

(3) The demographics are changing so that the growing Hispanic vote is more numerous and important than that of the far right anti-immigrant vote in America.

No bill will pass if all three components are not part of it.

The public will punish our GOP severely if that does not happen.


----------



## Mac1958

.

Seems to me the first thing the party needs to do is get it through its head that *IMAGE* is -- rightly or wrongly -- the driving force in contemporary American politics.  

The Democrats have long since figured this out and have tailored their messaging accordingly.

The Republicans, now effectively driven by the Tea Party -- are still stuck in echo chamber mode, *talking only to each other* using platitudes provided by the likes of Limbaugh, Hannity and Levin.  And they just will not listen to *anything else,* nor will it make any sincere or humble effort to communicate outside its bubble.

It's just not a very attractive party right now, and worse, it appears to be *proud* of that fact.

Okay, good luck with that.

.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

ron4342 said:


> After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there) and that if the republicans wanted to remain relevant they needed to change also. The recommendation was that the republican party needs to actively work toward bringing Hispanics into the party.
> They have a perfect chance to do that now but I fully expect that the republican party will once again shoot themselves in the foot. What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do. This places the republicans in a bind. Should they strongly support a sweeping immigration plan (similar to what Obama is offering) OR should they dig in their heels and refuse to accept any plan Obama offers just as they have done throughout the last five years.
> I am betting that the republicans will dig in their heels and refuse to offer a plan similar to Obama's. In other words, they will once again play the obstruction card and in the process slap the people who could help them win elections in the face. And then, after losing the Hispanic vote by a wide margin in 2014, they will once again scratch their heads and ask "Why did we lose? I don't understand."




Doesn't the United States already have an immigration policy for Germans, Russians, Japanese, Candians, Chinese, Britons, Saudis, Greeks, Koreans, Brazilians, French, South Africans, Algerians, Italians, Hungarians, Turks, Irish, Sweedens, etc ... etc ... etc. Why are we looking to an exception that singles out one race? Should the government of the United States be placing itself in a position to encourage and enable others to break federal law?


----------



## Stephanie

ron4342 said:


> After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there) and that if the republicans wanted to remain relevant they needed to change also. The recommendation was that the republican party needs to actively work toward bringing Hispanics into the party.
> They have a perfect chance to do that now but I fully expect that the republican party will once again shoot themselves in the foot. What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do. This places the republicans in a bind. Should they strongly support a sweeping immigration plan (similar to what Obama is offering) OR should they dig in their heels and refuse to accept any plan Obama offers just as they have done throughout the last five years.
> I am betting that the republicans will dig in their heels and refuse to offer a plan similar to Obama's. In other words, they will once again play the obstruction card and in the process slap the people who could help them win elections in the face. And then, after losing the Hispanic vote by a wide margin in 2014, they will once again scratch their heads and ask "Why did we lose? I don't understand."



well how lovely, they break our countries laws and then Obama rewards them with amnesty
7% unemployment all five years of him and now he wants to dump 20MILLION more on top of that or on our taxpayers back with welfare

yeah that Obama is something else he wants to give things no matter what the frikken cost will be to us and our country

you would let that man lead you off a cliff

we already have immigration laws...the Dear Leader just be enforcing those


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

Mac1958 said:


> .
> 
> Seems to me the first thing the party needs to do is get it through its head that *IMAGE* is -- rightly or wrongly -- the driving force in contemporary American politics.
> 
> The Democrats have long since figured this out and have tailored their messaging accordingly.
> 
> The Republicans, now effectively driven by the Tea Party -- are still stuck in echo chamber mode, *talking only to each other* using platitudes provided by the likes of Limbaugh, Hannity and Levin.  And they just will not listen to *anything else,* nor will it make any sincere or humble effort to communicate outside its bubble.
> 
> It's just not a very attractive party right now, and worse, it appears to be *proud* of that fact.
> 
> Okay, good luck with that.
> 
> .




Well its hard for a child to understand and warm up to a parent who is the disciplinarian, when the other doesn't care and is willing to "spoil" the child in giving him or her whatever they want. That sort of behavior is counter productive, as well as distructive, whos end can only lead to raising a spoiled brat. Everyone knows a child HATES rules and having to be told they can't have, or are not allowed to DO something, by a parent who is trying to instill rules of accountability and personal responsibility. How is this reaction towards Republicans surprising at all?


----------



## Stephanie

ron4342 said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Securing the border and a workable entry/exit system is needed before anything else is considered. That will be the republican focus. Once the flood gates are closed then the rest can be addressed. The senate plan is dead because it is unconstitutional, it contains revenue raising aspects in fees and fines that must originate in the house.
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting to note that President Obama has deported more people to Mexico than any other president. Will you give him any praise for that? Of course not. * The bottom line is Obama will push for an immigration plan.  The gop, thanks to the tea party, will refuse to pass it.  The Hispanics will see who is trying to help them and they will show their anger for the gop at the polls.  In other words, THE GOP WILL SHOT THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT ONCE AGAIN*.
Click to expand...


lol, he's deported more people...
yeah sure ok whatever
as for the rest, you need to ask your crystal ball again


----------



## Mac1958

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Seems to me the first thing the party needs to do is get it through its head that *IMAGE* is -- rightly or wrongly -- the driving force in contemporary American politics.
> 
> The Democrats have long since figured this out and have tailored their messaging accordingly.
> 
> The Republicans, now effectively driven by the Tea Party -- are still stuck in echo chamber mode, *talking only to each other* using platitudes provided by the likes of Limbaugh, Hannity and Levin.  And they just will not listen to *anything else,* nor will it make any sincere or humble effort to communicate outside its bubble.
> 
> It's just not a very attractive party right now, and worse, it appears to be *proud* of that fact.
> 
> Okay, good luck with that.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well its hard for a child to understand and warm up to a parent who is the disciplinarian, when the other doesn't care and is willing to "spoil" the child in giving him or her whatever they want. That sort of behavior is counter productive, as well as distructive, whos end can only lead to raising a spoiled brat. Everyone knows a child HATES rules and having to be told they can't have, or are not allowed to DO something, by a parent who is trying to instill rules of accountability and personal responsibility. How is this reaction towards Republicans surprising at all?
Click to expand...



Yup, that's a fair question, and let's continue on that line.

Let's say the child, over some period of time, has been allowed to develop poor habits regarding self-discipline and responsibility.  I'd guess you and I would agree that this would be a fair metaphor for our society in general.

So, the parents decide need to deal with that.  They can choose to, overnight, impose a strict, disciplinarian routine on the child, allowing no feedback from the child. Or perhaps they could do it gradually, demonstrating to the child the value of each increased step up in responsibility.  

While neither strategy is guaranteed to work, the chances that a child would rebel have to be higher if complete and draconian measures are taken overnight.

The standard argument to this would be, "well, there's just not enough time for that.  The country is about to go down the tubes and this has to happen RIGHT NOW."  I disagree with that.  It took us decades to arrive at this point, and it will take time, patience and hard work to reverse it.  I really wouldn't listen to those who have a vested financial interest in convincing you that it has to happen right this very moment.

And here's another thing:  The child can't vote the parents out of their job if he feels the parents are being too strict.  The electorate can, and will.

.


----------



## rightwinger

Republicans just can't help themselves. They really, really, really want to do the right thing. But there is an element in their party and a rightwing media that just won't let them. So they just go on saying offensive things and driving minority voters over to the democrats


----------



## JakeStarkey

So true, Rightwinger.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

rightwinger said:


> Republicans just can't help themselves. They really, really, really want to do the right thing. But there is an element in their party and a rightwing media that just won't let them. So they just go on saying offensive things and driving minority voters over to the democrats



Oh I'm sure the left would never even DREAM of introducing race into the discussion, and attempt label their opponents as such, when they don't happen to agree with Obama's policies. It's much easier to take the low road than stand and defend a difference of opinion.


----------



## rightwinger

The problem for Republicans is not 2014

They can continue their obstruction of immigration reform and still win. But they will pay a price for the rhetoric coming out of their party. They will pay a price for looking the other way as their fringe element alienates Hispanic voters

That price will be a generation of Hispanics refusing to vote Republican. it will be Florida turning solid blue. It will be Texas and Arizona turning purple. When that happens, Republicans will never elect another President and a permanent Democratic Senate.


----------



## Meister

Once there is amnesty, who's going to be doing those jobs that "nobody else will do" at below min. wage?   This is why there will never be a closed border, just amnesty after amnesty.
GOP gets it and the dems want the voting block.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

Meister said:


> Once there is amnesty, who's going to be doing those jobs that "nobody else will do" at below min. wage?   This is why there will never be a closed border, just amnesty after amnesty.
> GOP gets it and the dems want the voting block.



Isn't that all the Democrats really care about is enlisting another voting block, not whether taking such action encourages and endorses the breaking of current Federal Immigration laws that every other immigrant must follow?


----------



## JakeStarkey

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans just can't help themselves. They really, really, really want to do the right thing. But there is an element in their party and a rightwing media that just won't let them. So they just go on saying offensive things and driving minority voters over to the democrats
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh I'm sure the left would never even DREAM of introducing race into the discussion, and attempt label their opponents as such, when they don't happen to agree with Obama's policies. It's much easier to take the low road than stand and defend a difference of opinion.
Click to expand...


Of course, they do, but it is easier to hit us when our "own" kind do it, shakles, is the problem.


----------



## Stephanie

rightwinger said:


> Republicans just can't help themselves. They really, really, really want to do the right thing. But there is an element in their party and a rightwing media that just won't let them. So they just go on saying offensive things and driving minority voters over to the democrats



lol, an element, so that is another new name for the people in this country

you lefties are just full of wonderful labels...


----------



## Stephanie

Obama needs more bodies in this country to pay for his fascist government program, Ofailnocare

that's the only reason he is pushing this at all...


----------



## rightwinger

Stephanie said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans just can't help themselves. They really, really, really want to do the right thing. But there is an element in their party and a rightwing media that just won't let them. So they just go on saying offensive things and driving minority voters over to the democrats
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol, an element, so that is another new name for the people in this country
> 
> you lefties are just full of wonderful labels...
Click to expand...


Maybe element isn't the correct term.  What I really mean is there are a bunch of assholes in their party that won't let them do the right thing


----------



## JakeStarkey

The sensible GOP are putting strap down diapers on the TeaP assholes.


----------



## Zander

Immigration reform is DOA until after the 2014 mid-terms at the earliest. Democrats might try to revive the isssue, but they'll get nowhere. 

2014 will have 2 issues of concern: 

1) The debt ceiling / budget deficit
2) the train wreck known as Obamacare. 

If the GOP is smart they'll take some small concessions on spending in exchange for raising the debt limit and move on. 

Then focus on the 900 lb gorilla in the room- Obamacare.  Obamacare is a yoke around the neck of every Democrat in the country. They passed it, they OWN it- Lock, stock, and Barrel! 

The website problems are just the beginning.......


----------



## 1776

Sure dumbfuck...whatever. 

The Democraps lost big time in the last midterm election over "obamacare" and that was before it was actually fucking people's lives up like now. Nevermind the silly website can't work and people realize their "gods in DC" are really liars and idiots. 

It is over for Obama and his fellow scum. Go fuck yourself. 



ron4342 said:


> After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there) and that if the republicans wanted to remain relevant they needed to change also. The recommendation was that the republican party needs to actively work toward bringing Hispanics into the party.
> They have a perfect chance to do that now but I fully expect that the republican party will once again shoot themselves in the foot. What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do. This places the republicans in a bind. Should they strongly support a sweeping immigration plan (similar to what Obama is offering) OR should they dig in their heels and refuse to accept any plan Obama offers just as they have done throughout the last five years.
> I am betting that the republicans will dig in their heels and refuse to offer a plan similar to Obama's. In other words, they will once again play the obstruction card and in the process slap the people who could help them win elections in the face. And then, after losing the Hispanic vote by a wide margin in 2014, they will once again scratch their heads and ask "Why did we lose? I don't understand."


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

ron4342 said:


> After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there) and that if the republicans wanted to remain relevant they needed to change also. The recommendation was that the republican party needs to actively work toward bringing Hispanics into the party.
> They have a perfect chance to do that now but I fully expect that the republican party will once again shoot themselves in the foot. What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do. This places the republicans in a bind. Should they strongly support a sweeping immigration plan (similar to what Obama is offering) OR should they dig in their heels and refuse to accept any plan Obama offers just as they have done throughout the last five years.
> I am betting that the republicans will dig in their heels and refuse to offer a plan similar to Obama's. In other words, they will once again play the obstruction card and in the process slap the people who could help them win elections in the face. And then, after losing the Hispanic vote by a wide margin in 2014, they will once again scratch their heads and ask "Why did we lose? I don't understand."



Republicans lose on the issue of immigration because many on the right fear change and diversity; they perceive such change and an increasingly inclusive American society as a threat to their positions of advantage and privilege. 

And there is a significant element of racism present in the Republican Party republican politicians of good faith must acknowledge and also fear. 

This does not mean republicans are racist, or that racism is an official tenet of the Republican Party. So too are conservatives not racist, nor is racism an official tenet of conservative political dogma  but racists, for the most part, do identify as conservative and are more likely to be attracted to the GOP. 

This racism manifests itself as an animosity toward Hispanics perceived by many republicans and conservatives as interlopers, seeking not freedom but jobs, and refusing to assimilate. 

Hispanic Americans correctly perceive this animosity as indeed racism toward Hispanic persons, and consequently vote democratic. Republican opposition to immigration reform is also correctly perceived by Hispanic voters as animus toward the Hispanic community, where republicans seek only to stem the tide of Hispanic immigration.    

Republican politicians need to find the courage to stand up to the racist elements in their Party and support comprehensive immigration reform; the alternative is to continue to drift closer to the abyss of political irrelevance.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

1776 said:


> Sure dumbfuck...whatever.
> 
> The Democraps lost big time in the last midterm election over "obamacare" and that was before it was actually fucking people's lives up like now. Nevermind the silly website can't work and people realize their "gods in DC" are really liars and idiots.
> 
> It is over for Obama and his fellow scum. Go fuck yourself.



And here we see an example of the stupidity, hate, and ignorance common among the right that will also contribute to the continued failure of the GOP.


----------



## Esmeralda

OKTexas said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all, OKTexas, that won't pass the Senate.
> 
> All three components must be passed in the same bill.
> 
> If not the reactionaries will renege on the other two, if only a close the border bill is passed first.
> 
> The Dems and business are willing to have no bill pass because they will benefit, one at the ballot box and the other in the cash box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like the commies reneged on border security with Reagan?  We can actually learn from history here and not make the same mistakes again. Security will be first with the house all else is dead until that is accomplished.
Click to expand...


As long as people in the GOP consider Democrats to be 'Communists,' their party will never get anywhere.  It's so totally foolish and ignorant to hold such a point of view.


----------



## Stephanie

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there) and that if the republicans wanted to remain relevant they needed to change also. The recommendation was that the republican party needs to actively work toward bringing Hispanics into the party.
> They have a perfect chance to do that now but I fully expect that the republican party will once again shoot themselves in the foot. What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do. This places the republicans in a bind. Should they strongly support a sweeping immigration plan (similar to what Obama is offering) OR should they dig in their heels and refuse to accept any plan Obama offers just as they have done throughout the last five years.
> I am betting that the republicans will dig in their heels and refuse to offer a plan similar to Obama's. In other words, they will once again play the obstruction card and in the process slap the people who could help them win elections in the face. And then, after losing the Hispanic vote by a wide margin in 2014, they will once again scratch their heads and ask "Why did we lose? I don't understand."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans lose on the issue of immigration because many on the right fear change and diversity; they perceive such change and an increasingly inclusive American society as a threat to their positions of advantage and privilege.
> 
> And there is a significant element of racism present in the Republican Party republican politicians of good faith must acknowledge and also fear.
> 
> This does not mean republicans are racist, or that racism is an official tenet of the Republican Party. So too are conservatives not racist, nor is racism an official tenet of conservative political dogma &#8211; but racists, for the most part, do identify as conservative and are more likely to be attracted to the GOP.
> 
> This racism manifests itself as an animosity toward Hispanics perceived by many republicans and conservatives as interlopers, seeking not freedom but jobs, and refusing to assimilate.
> 
> Hispanic Americans correctly perceive this animosity as indeed racism toward Hispanic persons, and consequently vote democratic. Republican opposition to immigration reform is also correctly perceived by Hispanic voters as animus toward the Hispanic community, where republicans seek only to &#8216;stem the tide&#8217; of Hispanic immigration.
> 
> Republican politicians need to find the courage to stand up to the racist elements in their Party and support comprehensive immigration reform; the alternative is to continue to drift closer to the abyss of political irrelevance.
Click to expand...


oh brother...stable the high horse...

they are AFRAID of change and diversity

that's why they were right up in there to free slaves, march with Martin Luther King, and lets see, who gave them Amnesty  once before? not you Democrats.... etc etc

Legal Hispanic Americans don't want broad blanket amnesty either...they see how the job market is now with 7.2 % unemployment...but hey, what does Obama care about jobs for the people in this country, Obama needs to pander to another group to cause more hate and division in this country, this time it's Hispanics

and lets see, what party and president came out and took the black persons side(if I had a son he's look like trayvon Martin over the Hispanic Zimmerman?

you're just a blowhard partisan hack who think you know how Republicans/Conservatives...when it's all your made up imagination and painting with your broad brush...

you are a real ugly liar, how do you sleep at night?


----------



## Esmeralda

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> 1776 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure dumbfuck...whatever.
> 
> The Democraps lost big time in the last midterm election over "obamacare" and that was before it was actually fucking people's lives up like now. Nevermind the silly website can't work and people realize their "gods in DC" are really liars and idiots.
> 
> It is over for Obama and his fellow scum. Go fuck yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here we see an example of the stupidity, hate, and ignorance common among the right that will also contribute to the continued failure of the GOP.
Click to expand...


Yep.  It never takes long for these guys to illustrate a point.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Esmeralda said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all, OKTexas, that won't pass the Senate.
> 
> All three components must be passed in the same bill.
> 
> If not the reactionaries will renege on the other two, if only a close the border bill is passed first.
> 
> The Dems and business are willing to have no bill pass because they will benefit, one at the ballot box and the other in the cash box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like the commies reneged on border security with Reagan?  We can actually learn from history here and not make the same mistakes again. Security will be first with the house all else is dead until that is accomplished.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As long as people in the GOP consider Democrats to be 'Communists,' their party will never get anywhere.  It's so totally foolish and ignorant to hold such a point of view.
Click to expand...


You are right of course.  The loonies who use terms "commies" and "socialists" etc have no idea of the definitions, what they mean, how they are used historically, etc.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

OKTexas said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all, OKTexas, that won't pass the Senate.
> 
> All three components must be passed in the same bill.
> 
> If not the reactionaries will renege on the other two, if only a close the border bill is passed first.
> 
> The Dems and business are willing to have no bill pass because they will benefit, one at the ballot box and the other in the cash box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like the commies reneged on border security with Reagan?  We can actually learn from history here and not make the same mistakes again. Security will be first with the house *all else is dead* until that is accomplished.
Click to expand...


Including the GOP.


----------



## OKTexas

ron4342 said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Securing the border and a workable entry/exit system is needed before anything else is considered. That will be the republican focus. Once the flood gates are closed then the rest can be addressed. The senate plan is dead because it is unconstitutional, it contains revenue raising aspects in fees and fines that must originate in the house.
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting to note that President Obama has deported more people to Mexico than any other president. Will you give him any praise for that? Of course not.  The bottom line is Obama will push for an immigration plan.  The gop, thanks to the tea party, will refuse to pass it.  The Hispanics will see who is trying to help them and they will show their anger for the gop at the polls.  In other words, THE GOP WILL SHOT THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT ONCE AGAIN.
Click to expand...


What you want to pat him on the head for doing his job when he's not. He has no authority to exempt a whole class of illegals from deportation. Plus I guess you aren't aware that only 60% come in across the southern border, the rest come in on visas and never leave. We need to have an effective system to track them and ensure their departure when their visas expire.


----------



## OKTexas

JakeStarkey said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> What commies in the GOP reneged on the bill, OK?
> 
> Doesn't matter what is first in the House if it is dead in the Senate on arrival.
> 
> Only the Dems and business win with no bill, not the GOP.  Americans faith in our GOP is at historic lows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jakey the dems lost all credibility on security when your dear leader refused to complete the fence that the law said, the secretary WILL build, not optional and the dem congress let him get away with it. Yes both houses were controlled by dems at that time. The republicans won't make that mistake again. I've told my congressman that criminal penalties should be incorporated in any new law for any administration official that fails to follow the law. It's way past time to hold these politicians and bureaucrats accountable, maybe the threat of jail will get their attention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> (1) The public trusts neither party since dear leader Reagan.
> 
> (2) The Pubs made the mistake when they controlled all branches of the governments by not doing so
> 
> (3) The demographics are changing so that the growing Hispanic vote is more numerous and important than that of the far right anti-immigrant vote in America.
> 
> No bill will pass if all three components are not part of it.
> 
> The public will punish our GOP severely if that does not happen.
Click to expand...


It's plain to see you have bought the vernacular of the left, hook, line and sinker. Being against illegal immigration is NOT being anti-immigrant and if you think only the far right holds those views you are fucking nuts.


----------



## 1776

You're an example of the public school system, an idiot.

You believe the failures of obamacare and its little website are to be blamed on the "GOP" because you're an....idiot. 

You believe because Obama stole the last election by promising goodies and telling lies to dumbfucks like you that it is "really, really going to work this go around."

Get back to eating shit, idiot.



C_Clayton_Jones said:


> 1776 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure dumbfuck...whatever.
> 
> The Democraps lost big time in the last midterm election over "obamacare" and that was before it was actually fucking people's lives up like now. Nevermind the silly website can't work and people realize their "gods in DC" are really liars and idiots.
> 
> It is over for Obama and his fellow scum. Go fuck yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here we see an example of the stupidity, hate, and ignorance common among the right that will also contribute to the continued failure of the GOP.
Click to expand...


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

> One more reason why republicans will lose big in 2014



And republicans will lose future elections as long as they manifest their continued animus toward Hispanics and immigrants. 

Whether conservatives like it or not American society is changing, its becoming more diverse and inclusive. Minority voters and younger voters overall are repulsed by the reactionary fear of conservatives to this change, and the rights hateful, futile efforts to resist the inevitable.


----------



## JakeStarkey

as long as the those like 1776 have a voice, the dems are sure to win.


----------



## Stephanie

1776 said:


> You're an example of the public school system, an idiot.
> 
> You believe the failures of obamacare and its little website are to be blamed on the "GOP" because you're an....idiot.
> 
> You believe because Obama stole the last election by promising goodies and telling lies to dumbfucks like you that it is "really, really going to work this go around."
> 
> Get back to eating shit, idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1776 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure dumbfuck...whatever.
> 
> The Democraps lost big time in the last midterm election over "obamacare" and that was before it was actually fucking people's lives up like now. Nevermind the silly website can't work and people realize their "gods in DC" are really liars and idiots.
> 
> It is over for Obama and his fellow scum. Go fuck yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here we see an example of the stupidity, hate, and ignorance common among the right that will also contribute to the continued failure of the GOP.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


you have to understand Clay...He believes he is superior over Republicans/Conservatives
so you get his warped vision of how they are "AFRAID of DIVISERITY...I laughed my ass over that made up garbage
Plus he a full blown Democrat subject to the party and a partisan sheep


----------



## 1776

Oh look...the piece of shit lets the cat out the bag...the Hispanic vote. 

Yeah, just "legalize the illegals" is your claim to save the GOP and our economy,. 

We understand you scumbags will just give them goodies and lies to keep their votes. Afterall, the GOP is full of evil "white" people like Rubio, Cruz, etc.....oh wait. 



C_Clayton_Jones said:


> One more reason why republicans will lose big in 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And republicans will lose future elections as long as they manifest their continued animus toward Hispanics and immigrants.
> 
> Whether conservatives like it or not American society is changing, its becoming more diverse and inclusive. Minority voters and younger voters overall are repulsed by the reactionary fear of conservatives to this change, and the rights hateful, futile efforts to resist the inevitable.
Click to expand...


----------



## 1776

Democraps play on the welfare angle with Hispanics all the while downplaying their anti-Christian angle within the Democraps. Most Hispanics are Catholic and are family-oriented but Democraps work around that with the "free stuff" salespitch because many times minority voters are oblivious to white trash liberals that hate Christians and the family.


----------



## OKTexas

Esmeralda said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all, OKTexas, that won't pass the Senate.
> 
> All three components must be passed in the same bill.
> 
> If not the reactionaries will renege on the other two, if only a close the border bill is passed first.
> 
> The Dems and business are willing to have no bill pass because they will benefit, one at the ballot box and the other in the cash box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like the commies reneged on border security with Reagan?  We can actually learn from history here and not make the same mistakes again. Security will be first with the house all else is dead until that is accomplished.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As long as people in the GOP consider Democrats to be 'Communists,' their party will never get anywhere.  It's so totally foolish and ignorant to hold such a point of view.
Click to expand...


Really, who was their dear leader raised by, mentored by, I guess he didn't seek out the company of the most radical elements in college like he said in his book. You can't defeat an opponent if you refuse to admit who they are.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

OKTexas said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jakey the dems lost all credibility on security when your dear leader refused to complete the fence that the law said, the secretary WILL build, not optional and the dem congress let him get away with it. Yes both houses were controlled by dems at that time. The republicans won't make that mistake again. I've told my congressman that criminal penalties should be incorporated in any new law for any administration official that fails to follow the law. It's way past time to hold these politicians and bureaucrats accountable, maybe the threat of jail will get their attention.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (1) The public trusts neither party since dear leader Reagan.
> 
> (2) The Pubs made the mistake when they controlled all branches of the governments by not doing so
> 
> (3) The demographics are changing so that the growing Hispanic vote is more numerous and important than that of the far right anti-immigrant vote in America.
> 
> No bill will pass if all three components are not part of it.
> 
> The public will punish our GOP severely if that does not happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's plain to see you have bought the vernacular of the left, hook, line and sinker. Being against illegal immigration is NOT being anti-immigrant and if you think only the far right holds those views you are fucking nuts.
Click to expand...


Hispanics are not stupid, they correctly infer the bellicose rhetoric from the right concerning secure borders and anti-illegal immigration as hostility toward Hispanic immigration, and Hispanic Americans in general.


----------



## Meister

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> (1) The public trusts neither party since dear leader Reagan.
> 
> (2) The Pubs made the mistake when they controlled all branches of the governments by not doing so
> 
> (3) The demographics are changing so that the growing Hispanic vote is more numerous and important than that of the far right anti-immigrant vote in America.
> 
> No bill will pass if all three components are not part of it.
> 
> The public will punish our GOP severely if that does not happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's plain to see you have bought the vernacular of the left, hook, line and sinker. Being against illegal immigration is NOT being anti-immigrant and if you think only the far right holds those views you are fucking nuts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hispanics are not stupid, they correctly infer the bellicose rhetoric from the right concerning secure borders and anti-illegal immigration as hostility toward Hispanic immigration, and Hispanic Americans in general.
Click to expand...


You couldn't be more wrong, Clayton.  Just sayin....


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

OKTexas said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like the commies reneged on border security with Reagan?  We can actually learn from history here and not make the same mistakes again. Security will be first with the house all else is dead until that is accomplished.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As long as people in the GOP consider Democrats to be 'Communists,' their party will never get anywhere.  It's so totally foolish and ignorant to hold such a point of view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really, who was their dear leader raised by, mentored by, I guess he didn't seek out the company of the most radical elements in college like he said in his book. You can't defeat an opponent if you refuse to admit who they are.
Click to expand...


Here we see yet another example of the stupidity, hate, and ignorance common among the right that will also contribute to the continued failure of the GOP.


----------



## Stephanie

OKTexas said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like the commies reneged on border security with Reagan?  We can actually learn from history here and not make the same mistakes again. Security will be first with the house all else is dead until that is accomplished.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As long as people in the GOP consider Democrats to be 'Communists,' their party will never get anywhere.  It's so totally foolish and ignorant to hold such a point of view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really, who was their dear leader raised by, mentored by, I guess he didn't seek out the company of the most radical elements in college like he said in his book. You can't defeat an opponent if you refuse to admit who they are.
Click to expand...


they know about his past and his radical connection's ..You can't get anymore radical than his reverend of 20 years, the Rev. Wright, when after 9/11 and 3000 citizens killed,  he showed his patriotism to our country by spewing, America's chickens have come to roost...Obama thinks just like him, he hates our country and the freedoms we have in it, so he vowed to TRANSFORM it...and we are now our way to be cloned like Europe...the people over there are looked on as, subjects, little worker bees to support their Daddy government so they can take care of them...and of course this Federal guberment will become our mommies and daddies too...take Obambamfailnocare...FASCISM by Obama and Guberment..now we should all hail Obama/Hugo/Hitler

but they pooed pooed people over all that because it's easier to wear blinders or they are as radical as he is and want's Socialism/communism in this country


----------



## JakeStarkey

> Oh look...the piece of shit lets the cat out the bag...the Hispanic vote.
> 
> Yeah, just "legalize the illegals" is your claim to save the GOP and our economy,.
> 
> We understand you scumbags will just give them goodies and lies to keep their votes. Afterall, the GOP is full of evil "white" people like Rubio, Cruz, etc.....oh wait.



Hispanics will be voting for the future, not the past of a Cruz or a Rubio.

Hispanics despise the TeaP and they despise anti-immigration nonsense.

And, far more importantly, Hispanics will nearly outnumber your crowd in 2014 and will equal it in 2016.

The day of TeaPs is over.


----------



## rightwinger

It is the open hatred of Hispanics by the right. The scapegoating, calling them freeloaders and mooches that will doom Republicans

When are you guys going to learn to play nice?


----------



## JakeStarkey

Many of the conservatives are trying to do so.  But the TeaPs are so anti-immigrant they can't see straight or think clearly.


----------



## Stephanie

rightwinger said:


> It is the open hatred of Hispanics by the right. The scapegoating, calling them freeloaders and mooches that will doom Republicans
> 
> When are you guys going to learn to play nice?



you're are another hatful liar about the people who are Republicans/Conservatives.



open hatred for Hispanics was brought to light when Obama and you sheep in the Democrat party publically took Martins side over the HISPANIC, Zimmerman...you wanted to lynch the Hispanic and hang him for being found not guilty of murdering the poor dear child, Martin you all made him out to be...

and then you have the NERVE to post that hateful shit about Republicans...

you should just go to hell now and spare us your sick and warped lies...personally I am sick of them


----------



## rightwinger

Stephanie said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the open hatred of Hispanics by the right. The scapegoating, calling them freeloaders and mooches that will doom Republicans
> 
> When are you guys going to learn to play nice?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you're are another hatful liar about the people who are Republicans/Conservatives.
> 
> 
> 
> open hatred for Hispanics was brought to light when Obama and you sheep in the Democrat party publically took Martins side over the HISPANIC, Zimmerman...you wanted to lynch the Hispanic and hang him for being found not guilty of murdering the poor dear child you all made him out to be...
> 
> you should just go to hell now and spare us your sick and warped lies...personally I am sick of them
Click to expand...


You think Hispanics will vote Republican because of Zimmerman?

God, are you ever one stupid bitch


----------



## Stephanie

rightwinger said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the open hatred of Hispanics by the right. The scapegoating, calling them freeloaders and mooches that will doom Republicans
> 
> When are you guys going to learn to play nice?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you're are another hatful liar about the people who are Republicans/Conservatives.
> 
> 
> 
> open hatred for Hispanics was brought to light when Obama and you sheep in the Democrat party publically took Martins side over the HISPANIC, Zimmerman...you wanted to lynch the Hispanic and hang him for being found not guilty of murdering the poor dear child you all made him out to be...
> 
> you should just go to hell now and spare us your sick and warped lies...personally I am sick of them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You think Hispanics will vote Republican because of Zimmerman?
> 
> God, are you ever one stupid bitch
Click to expand...


unfortunately they will fall for hateful lies that people like you spread around...but I hope the Martin case opened up a few eyes of the Hispanics...and you come and call me a stupid bitch to my face...you'll need an ice pack for those little balls you carry around from being a little man.....now again, go to hell you hateful fucking loser pos


----------



## OKTexas

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> (1) The public trusts neither party since dear leader Reagan.
> 
> (2) The Pubs made the mistake when they controlled all branches of the governments by not doing so
> 
> (3) The demographics are changing so that the growing Hispanic vote is more numerous and important than that of the far right anti-immigrant vote in America.
> 
> No bill will pass if all three components are not part of it.
> 
> The public will punish our GOP severely if that does not happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's plain to see you have bought the vernacular of the left, hook, line and sinker. Being against illegal immigration is NOT being anti-immigrant and if you think only the far right holds those views you are fucking nuts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hispanics are not stupid, they correctly infer the bellicose rhetoric from the right concerning secure borders and anti-illegal immigration as hostility toward Hispanic immigration, and Hispanic Americans in general.
Click to expand...


Just because you keep repeating the lie doesn't make it true, btw the was the exact bs liberal mantra I was talking about. Just because the pro-illegal crowd is the most vocal doesn't mean they are the majority.


----------



## OKTexas

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> As long as people in the GOP consider Democrats to be 'Communists,' their party will never get anywhere.  It's so totally foolish and ignorant to hold such a point of view.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really, who was their dear leader raised by, mentored by, I guess he didn't seek out the company of the most radical elements in college like he said in his book. You can't defeat an opponent if you refuse to admit who they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here we see yet another example of the stupidity, hate, and ignorance common among the right that will also contribute to the continued failure of the GOP.
Click to expand...


And here you have a typical commiecrat that can't refute my points so he attacks the messanger. Come on prove me wrong, don't just use your Alinski attacks.


----------



## rightwinger

Republicans have put themselves in a hole with their Obamacare temper tantrum to shut down government. 

Question is:   What will they do about it?

My guess is they will dig themselves deeper


----------



## Stephanie

rightwinger said:


> Republicans have put themselves in a hole with their Obamacare temper tantrum to shut down government.
> 
> Question is:   What will they do about it?
> 
> My guess is they will dig themselves deeper



shut up already, you've overtaken another thread with all you bullshit


----------



## Nyvin

Stephanie said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the open hatred of Hispanics by the right. The scapegoating, calling them freeloaders and mooches that will doom Republicans
> 
> When are you guys going to learn to play nice?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you're are another hatful liar about the people who are Republicans/Conservatives.
> 
> 
> 
> open hatred for Hispanics was brought to light when Obama and you sheep in the Democrat party publically took Martins side over the HISPANIC, Zimmerman...you wanted to lynch the Hispanic and hang him for being found not guilty of murdering the poor dear child, Martin you all made him out to be...
> 
> and then you have the NERVE to post that hateful shit about Republicans...
> 
> you should just go to hell now and spare us your sick and warped lies...personally I am sick of them
Click to expand...


Are you seriously trying to play Zimmerman against democrats for the hispanic vote???   Do you think Hispanic people favor stand your ground laws???  

(hint: they don't)


----------



## Stephanie

Nyvin said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the open hatred of Hispanics by the right. The scapegoating, calling them freeloaders and mooches that will doom Republicans
> 
> When are you guys going to learn to play nice?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you're are another hatful liar about the people who are Republicans/Conservatives.
> 
> 
> 
> open hatred for Hispanics was brought to light when Obama and you sheep in the Democrat party publically took Martins side over the HISPANIC, Zimmerman...you wanted to lynch the Hispanic and hang him for being found not guilty of murdering the poor dear child, Martin you all made him out to be...
> 
> and then you have the NERVE to post that hateful shit about Republicans...
> 
> you should just go to hell now and spare us your sick and warped lies...personally I am sick of them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you seriously trying to play Zimmerman against democrats for the hispanic vote???   Do you think Hispanic people favor stand your ground laws???
> 
> (hint: they don't)
Click to expand...


oh they don't, did you go out and poll them?
stand your ground laws are for the people protection, you bleeding hearts don't like it, tough shit...go protest fur or something else to step on people rights


----------



## OKTexas

Nyvin said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the open hatred of Hispanics by the right. The scapegoating, calling them freeloaders and mooches that will doom Republicans
> 
> When are you guys going to learn to play nice?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you're are another hatful liar about the people who are Republicans/Conservatives.
> 
> 
> 
> open hatred for Hispanics was brought to light when Obama and you sheep in the Democrat party publically took Martins side over the HISPANIC, Zimmerman...you wanted to lynch the Hispanic and hang him for being found not guilty of murdering the poor dear child, Martin you all made him out to be...
> 
> and then you have the NERVE to post that hateful shit about Republicans...
> 
> you should just go to hell now and spare us your sick and warped lies...personally I am sick of them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you seriously trying to play Zimmerman against democrats for the hispanic vote???   Do you think Hispanic people favor stand your ground laws???
> 
> (hint: they don't)
Click to expand...


Are you really dumb enough not to know Stand Your Ground was not used in the Zimmerman defense, just straight up self defense. Hispanics agree that you should be able to defend yourself, FAIL.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

The sad fact is this reactionaryism and fear of change and diversity is not necessarily republican; there are many republicans who, like democrats, embrace diversity and look forward to change. 

The problem for the GOP concerns the racist, fearful elements that have hijacked a once viable party and turned it into an institution of ignorance and hate.


----------



## OKTexas

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> The sad fact is this reactionaryism and fear of change and diversity is not necessarily republican; there are many republicans who, like democrats, embrace diversity and look forward to change.
> 
> The problem for the GOP concerns the racist, fearful elements that have hijacked a once viable party and turned it into an institution of ignorance and hate.



Will you ever get off the commiecrat talking points, do you ever have an original thought?


----------



## rightwinger

OKTexas said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sad fact is this reactionaryism and fear of change and diversity is not necessarily republican; there are many republicans who, like democrats, embrace diversity and look forward to change.
> 
> The problem for the GOP concerns the racist, fearful elements that have hijacked a once viable party and turned it into an institution of ignorance and hate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will you ever get off the commiecrat talking points, do you ever have an original thought?
Click to expand...


Commie?

Is that the best you got?

Haven't you guys progressed from the 1950s?  Its like a time warp


----------



## PrometheusBound

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> The sad fact is this reactionaryism and fear of change and diversity is not necessarily republican; there are many republicans who, like democrats, embrace diversity and look forward to change.
> 
> The problem for the GOP concerns the racist, fearful elements that have hijacked a once viable party and turned it into an institution of ignorance and hate.



In 1964, Goldwater tried to play to the vote of the overwhelmingly White majority.   Whites who voted against him didn't vote for the ultraleft Great Society; they saw through the bait-and-switch tactic of the GOP only caring about imposing Far Right economic class tyranny on the country and only giving lip service to racial concerns.   The same when Clinton and Obama won, so Demwits shouldn't be so triumphant.   They have no mandate and will lose again as soon as people forget what the Republicans did in destroying the lower middle class.  People will vote, as always, against one threatening or snobbish candidate rather than for the winner.  

Whether they thought that public healthcare is a good policy or not, people voted against the Demwits in 2010 because Obama concentrated on that instead of on the economic disaster created by the Greedheads On Parole.   Because of the irrelevant 18th Century political science imposed on us by the anti-democratic Constitution, electoral winners don't express the will of the people but only suspicion of or hatred for the losers.   The 2012 election was not a re-affirmation of Obama, but a fear that the recovery would collapse if the openly economic royalists took over again.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

Esmeralda said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all, OKTexas, that won't pass the Senate.
> 
> All three components must be passed in the same bill.
> 
> If not the reactionaries will renege on the other two, if only a close the border bill is passed first.
> 
> The Dems and business are willing to have no bill pass because they will benefit, one at the ballot box and the other in the cash box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like the commies reneged on border security with Reagan?  We can actually learn from history here and not make the same mistakes again. Security will be first with the house all else is dead until that is accomplished.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As long as people in the GOP consider Democrats to be 'Communists,' their party will never get anywhere.  It's so totally foolish and ignorant to hold such a point of view.
Click to expand...


You need to do your research, there is a *shared* anti-corporate "share the wealth" ideology among those who are supportive of communism in the United States ... with those of the liberal Democrat party.



> I have written before that the people's movement that is now emerging doesn't yet possess the transformative power of the movement of the 1930s. That movement set in motion an era of broad, deep-going, democratic, anti-corporate restructuring of our political and economic institutions - and also changed the thinking of tens of milliions.
> 
> But what today's movement does possess is the potential to develop in that direction. All of which begs the question:
> 
> How do we accelerate this transition from a movement with transformative potential to a movement with transformative power and capacity?
> 
> 
> .... It should also be an energetic part of the struggle to give the Republican Party a licking in next year's congressional elections. Defeating right-wing extremist candidates is the key link in moving the whole chain of struggle forward. It will take an expansive coalition of voters, including independents, centrists and even some moderate Republicans.
> 
> - Sam Webb cpusa
> 
> Ingredients for a movement that can transform our country » peoplesworld
> 
> Sam Webb » cpusa


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

Stephanie said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there) and that if the republicans wanted to remain relevant they needed to change also. The recommendation was that the republican party needs to actively work toward bringing Hispanics into the party.
> They have a perfect chance to do that now but I fully expect that the republican party will once again shoot themselves in the foot. What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do. This places the republicans in a bind. Should they strongly support a sweeping immigration plan (similar to what Obama is offering) OR should they dig in their heels and refuse to accept any plan Obama offers just as they have done throughout the last five years.
> I am betting that the republicans will dig in their heels and refuse to offer a plan similar to Obama's. In other words, they will once again play the obstruction card and in the process slap the people who could help them win elections in the face. And then, after losing the Hispanic vote by a wide margin in 2014, they will once again scratch their heads and ask "Why did we lose? I don't understand."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans lose on the issue of immigration because many on the right fear change and diversity; they perceive such change and an increasingly inclusive American society as a threat to their positions of advantage and privilege.
> 
> And there is a significant element of racism present in the Republican Party republican politicians of good faith must acknowledge and also fear.
> 
> This does not mean republicans are racist, or that racism is an official tenet of the Republican Party. So too are conservatives not racist, nor is racism an official tenet of conservative political dogma  but racists, for the most part, do identify as conservative and are more likely to be attracted to the GOP.
> 
> This racism manifests itself as an animosity toward Hispanics perceived by many republicans and conservatives as interlopers, seeking not freedom but jobs, and refusing to assimilate.
> 
> Hispanic Americans correctly perceive this animosity as indeed racism toward Hispanic persons, and consequently vote democratic. Republican opposition to immigration reform is also correctly perceived by Hispanic voters as animus toward the Hispanic community, where republicans seek only to stem the tide of Hispanic immigration.
> 
> Republican politicians need to find the courage to stand up to the racist elements in their Party and support comprehensive immigration reform; the alternative is to continue to drift closer to the abyss of political irrelevance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> oh brother...stable the high horse...
> 
> they are AFRAID of change and diversity
> 
> that's why they were right up in there to free slaves, march with Martin Luther King, and lets see, who gave them Amnesty  once before? not you Democrats.... etc etc
> 
> Legal Hispanic Americans don't want broad blanket amnesty either...they see how the job market is now with 7.2 % unemployment...but hey, what does Obama care about jobs for the people in this country, Obama needs to pander to another group to cause more hate and division in this country, this time it's Hispanics
> 
> and lets see, what party and president came out and took the black persons side(if I had a son he's look like trayvon Martin over the Hispanic Zimmerman?
> 
> you're just a blowhard partisan hack who think you know how Republicans/Conservatives...when it's all your made up imagination and painting with your broad brush...
> 
> you are a real ugly liar, how do you sleep at night?
Click to expand...



President Obama is looking to the Hispanic community to help him save in the financial balance of Obamacare, as the young people in this country don't seem to be going for it as they hoped. This is why President Obama's first big push is for immigration reform by the end of the year, not a complete focus on the economy. His signature bill is all that matters. Unfortunately it will all begin to unravel should only the old and the poor be represented to receive their insurance assistance, with nothing in the way of healthy young people to offset the resulting debt.

There is a reason Obama is pushing so extremely hard on immigration reform by years end. Reliable voters is only small part of his agenda.


----------



## blackhawk

Every noticed how the people who love predicting the future are wrong a lot?


----------



## JakeStarkey

No fanatical dislike of Hispanics and immigrant, shakles.

Do you read this board?


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> (1) The public trusts neither party since dear leader Reagan.
> 
> (2) The Pubs made the mistake when they controlled all branches of the governments by not doing so
> 
> (3) The demographics are changing so that the growing Hispanic vote is more numerous and important than that of the far right anti-immigrant vote in America.
> 
> No bill will pass if all three components are not part of it.
> 
> The public will punish our GOP severely if that does not happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's plain to see you have bought the vernacular of the left, hook, line and sinker. Being against illegal immigration is NOT being anti-immigrant and if you think only the far right holds those views you are fucking nuts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hispanics are not stupid, they correctly infer the bellicose rhetoric from the right concerning secure borders and anti-illegal immigration as hostility toward Hispanic immigration, and Hispanic Americans in general.
Click to expand...


It's hard to say there is hostility towards Hispanics, as some believe in the "equality" of attaining citizenship for ALL immigrants through the current Federal Immigration system. We are not out to show favoritism towards one particular ethnic group, in order to manipulate them like sheep to support the Democrats thirst for power. Not every Hispanic is gullible enough to accept this contrived fantasy of racism, some can actually see the clear politics behind this need of Democrats to show compassion.


----------



## JakeStarkey

And that is why the Hispanic and immigrant groups' voting records are swinging to the GOP?


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

OKTexas said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sad fact is this reactionaryism and fear of change and diversity is not necessarily republican; there are many republicans who, like democrats, embrace diversity and look forward to change.
> 
> The problem for the GOP concerns the racist, fearful elements that have hijacked a once viable party and turned it into an institution of ignorance and hate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will you ever get off the commiecrat talking points, do you ever have an original thought?
Click to expand...


The thread is about why republicans are losing elections as a consequence of Hispanics correctly perceiving the GOP as hostile toward immigrants and the rights refusal to participate in comprehensive immigration reform. 

Not democrats, which is merely an attempt to deflect.  

That you and others on the right refuse to acknowledge this problem is also part of the larger problem facing republicans.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> The sad fact is this reactionaryism and fear of change and diversity is not necessarily republican; there are many republicans who, like democrats, embrace diversity and look forward to change.
> 
> The problem for the GOP concerns the racist, fearful elements that have hijacked a once viable party and turned it into an institution of ignorance and hate.



Can you provide me a link of Republicans in Congress specifically using racial slurs to describe Hispanics with regard to immigration reform?


----------



## Mertex

OKTexas said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> What commies in the GOP reneged on the bill, OK?
> 
> Doesn't matter what is first in the House if it is dead in the Senate on arrival.
> 
> Only the Dems and business win with no bill, not the GOP.  Americans faith in our GOP is at historic lows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jakey the dems lost all credibility on security when your dear leader refused to complete the fence that the law said, the secretary WILL build, not optional and the dem congress let him get away with it. Yes both houses were controlled by dems at that time. The republicans won't make that mistake again. I've told my congressman that criminal penalties should be incorporated in any new law for any administration official that fails to follow the law. It's way past time to hold these politicians and bureaucrats accountable, maybe the threat of jail will get their attention.
Click to expand...


The fence is a waste of money and doesn't work.

Illegal crossings are at their lowest since Obama became president - so much for the GOP having better ideas.

While apprehensions across the southwest border remain near historic lows, CBP [Customs and Border Protection] has noted increases in apprehensions in South Texas, specifically of individuals from Central American countries, including El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras, said Danny Tirado, a spokesman for the Rio Grande Valley office.  To address these changes, CBP continues to make significant investments in technology and infrastructure across south Texas and today, has more than 6,000 BP agents in the region, an increase of more than 80 percent since 2004.

The Pinocchio Test
Kudos to the White House for staying on top of the changes in the data. The increase in apprehensions, at this point, does not suggest a return to huge influx of illegal aliens before the recession, but it is enough of a shift that it is appropriate to modify presidential claims of success.
Geppetto Checkmark
Obama?s claims on illegal border crossings - The Washington Post


----------



## Nyvin

blackhawk said:


> Every noticed how the people who love predicting the future are wrong a lot?



Like Nate Silver?


----------



## OKTexas

rightwinger said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sad fact is this reactionaryism and fear of change and diversity is not necessarily republican; there are many republicans who, like democrats, embrace diversity and look forward to change.
> 
> The problem for the GOP concerns the racist, fearful elements that have hijacked a once viable party and turned it into an institution of ignorance and hate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will you ever get off the commiecrat talking points, do you ever have an original thought?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Commie?
> 
> Is that the best you got?
> 
> Haven't you guys progressed from the 1950s?  Its like a time warp
Click to expand...


Oh I got better, it's just a damned shame you guys don't have better. You can't, as your dear leader just proved, have a conversation with broken records.


----------



## blackhawk

Nyvin said:


> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every noticed how the people who love predicting the future are wrong a lot?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like Nate Silver?
Click to expand...


I was referring to people on this board. But since you brought him didn't someone post a link for a article by him where he said it was not likely the Democrats would take the House in 2014 and the Senate was becoming more of a tossup?


----------



## OKTexas

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sad fact is this reactionaryism and fear of change and diversity is not necessarily republican; there are many republicans who, like democrats, embrace diversity and look forward to change.
> 
> The problem for the GOP concerns the racist, fearful elements that have hijacked a once viable party and turned it into an institution of ignorance and hate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will you ever get off the commiecrat talking points, do you ever have an original thought?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The thread is about why republicans are losing elections as a consequence of Hispanics correctly perceiving the GOP as hostile toward immigrants and the rights refusal to participate in comprehensive immigration reform.
> 
> Not democrats, which is merely an attempt to deflect.
> 
> That you and others on the right refuse to acknowledge this problem is also part of the larger problem facing republicans.
Click to expand...


We've seen the results of comprehensive reform, you get all the amnesty and no security, either on the border or entry/exit visas and the legal path is never fixed. Since neither party managed to get it right on the previous comprehensive plan it's time to go step by step so maybe politicians and bureaucrats can follow the plan.


----------



## ron4342

Stephanie said:


> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Securing the border and a workable entry/exit system is needed before anything else is considered. That will be the republican focus. Once the flood gates are closed then the rest can be addressed. The senate plan is dead because it is unconstitutional, it contains revenue raising aspects in fees and fines that must originate in the house.
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting to note that President Obama has deported more people to Mexico than any other president. Will you give him any praise for that? Of course not. *The bottom line is Obama will push for an immigration plan. The gop, thanks to the tea party, will refuse to pass it. The Hispanics will see who is trying to help them and they will show their anger for the gop at the polls. In other words, THE GOP WILL SHOT THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT ONCE AGAIN*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> lol, he's deported more people...
> yeah sure ok whatever
> as for the rest, you need to ask your crystal ball again
Click to expand...

Here is a perfect example of how the "Bubble People" refuse to accept reality.  Without doing a single search stephanie has dismissed the truth which happens to be right in front of her.  Just for the hell of it stephanie, GOOGLE "Obama deporting mexicans."  The headline below is typical of what you will find.

*Obama Keeps Up Torrid Pace of Deportations
*http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-11/obama-keeps-up-torrid-pace-of-deportations.html 

The problem here is that stephanie has a cement brain.  Nothing gets in that is contrary to what she believes.  The bottom line is that stephanie KNOWS what she believes and she does not want to be bothered by facts or the truth.  Unfortunately this is pretty much the way the right thinks.


----------



## Nyvin

blackhawk said:


> Nyvin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every noticed how the people who love predicting the future are wrong a lot?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like Nate Silver?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was referring to people on this board. But since you brought him didn't someone post a link for a article by him where he said it was not likely the Democrats would take the House in 2014 and the Senate was becoming more of a tossup?
Click to expand...


Yes,  I mostly agree with him,  the democrats taking the house in 2014 would be very difficult.


----------



## ron4342

_Blackhawk posted:_
_Every noticed how the people who love predicting the future are wrong a lot?_

_Ron sez:_
_Blackhawk, my OP was not a prediction as much as a stating of a series of facts and the logical conclusion they point to._
_Answer me this; Suppose you are a naturalized Hispanic American and you have several illegal Hispanics who are either related to you or close friends. Suppose also you watch the gop close the door on your family and friends. Would you vote for a candidate who wants your family and friends deported OR would you vote for a party that wants to give your family and friends a path to becoming legal Americans? Seriously, who would you vote for?_
_Here is another way to look at it.  For me to be wrong would require the gop to work with President Obama to provide a path for illegals to become legals.  DO YOU REALLY THINK THE GOP IS PREPARED TO WORK WITH OBAMA?_


----------



## Meister

ron4342 said:


> _Blackhawk posted:_
> _Every noticed how the people who love predicting the future are wrong a lot?_
> 
> _Ron sez:_
> _Blackhawk, my OP was not a prediction as much as a stating of a series of facts and the logical conclusion they point to._
> _Answer me this; Suppose you are a naturalized Hispanic American and you have several illegal Hispanics who are either related to you or close friends. Suppose also you watch the gop close the door on your family and friends. Would you vote for a candidate who wants your family and friends deported OR would you vote for a party that wants to give your family and friends a path to becoming legal Americans? Seriously, who would you vote for?_
> _Here is another way to look at it.  For me to be wrong would require the gop to work with President Obama to provide a path for illegals to become legals.  DO YOU REALLY THINK THE GOP IS PREPARED TO WORK WITH OBAMA?_



Just keep those borders open so "family and friends" can keep coming across.


----------



## Stephanie

ron4342 said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting to note that President Obama has deported more people to Mexico than any other president. Will you give him any praise for that? Of course not. *The bottom line is Obama will push for an immigration plan. The gop, thanks to the tea party, will refuse to pass it. The Hispanics will see who is trying to help them and they will show their anger for the gop at the polls. In other words, THE GOP WILL SHOT THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT ONCE AGAIN*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol, he's deported more people...
> yeah sure ok whatever
> as for the rest, you need to ask your crystal ball again
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is a perfect example of how the "Bubble People" refuse to accept reality.  Without doing a single search stephanie has dismissed the truth which happens to be right in front of her.  Just for the hell of it stephanie, GOOGLE "Obama deporting mexicans."  The headline below is typical of what you will find.
> 
> *Obama Keeps Up Torrid Pace of Deportations
> *http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-11/obama-keeps-up-torrid-pace-of-deportations.html
> 
> The problem here is that stephanie has a cement brain.  Nothing gets in that is contrary to what she believes.  The bottom line is that stephanie KNOWS what she believes and she does not want to be bothered by facts or the truth.  Unfortunately this is pretty much the way the right thinks.
Click to expand...


ok then, if I found and posted ONE article that say's Obambam is really gay, you are going to just buy that and believe it right?

post a bloomingidiot article and that makes it automatically the truth, well we can scour the Internet to find article saying different and his administation has been soft on deportations....but you fall for him being superman hero or something..you're an Obama sheep...


----------



## JakeStarkey

The women and Hispanics and minorities of America have told the GOP that they will not tolerate the far right reactionary and TeaP agendas at the national level.  

The polls haven't changed, folks.

Either we change how we reach out to them, or our GOP will continue to lose Senate and House seats next year.


----------



## blackhawk

ron4342 said:


> _Blackhawk posted:_
> _Every noticed how the people who love predicting the future are wrong a lot?_
> 
> _Ron sez:_
> _Blackhawk, my OP was not a prediction as much as a stating of a series of facts and the logical conclusion they point to._
> _Answer me this; Suppose you are a naturalized Hispanic American and you have several illegal Hispanics who are either related to you or close friends. Suppose also you watch the gop close the door on your family and friends. Would you vote for a candidate who wants your family and friends deported OR would you vote for a party that wants to give your family and friends a path to becoming legal Americans? Seriously, who would you vote for?_
> _Here is another way to look at it.  For me to be wrong would require the gop to work with President Obama to provide a path for illegals to become legals.  DO YOU REALLY THINK THE GOP IS PREPARED TO WORK WITH OBAMA?_



To my knowledge no serious Republican has called for deportation though I would point out  to you entering the country illegally is a crime and thus by law deportation is a possibility I would also point out there are a great many Hispanics who have come to the country through the legal process and might not be inclined to vote for the candidate who is willing to give those who have not a perceived free pass. Marco Rubio has a very good plan he has put forward to give illegals a pathway to citizenship so far I have not seen one from the President or the Democrats so the equally important question that needs to be asked is President Obama and the Democrats truly prepared to work with Rubio and the Republicans? So we will see if the President is truly serious on this issue or does he just want to make a pretense of actually working on it but really do nothing so he can use it as a wedge issue in 2014.


----------



## ron4342

Zander said:


> If the GOP is smart they'll take some small concessions on spending in exchange for raising the debt limit and move on.
> 
> Then focus on the 900 lb gorilla in the room- Obamacare. Obamacare is a yoke around the neck of every Democrat in the country. They passed it, they OWN it- Lock, stock, and Barrel!
> 
> The website problems are just the beginning.......


 "If the GOP is smart ...."  And therein lies the problem.  The gop seems obsessed with making one poor choice after another.  There is a reason polling shows the gop with their lowest approval rating, ever!  I believe your argument is DOA.  What you are speaking of is COMPROMISE!  To the gop, COMPROMISE is the Kiss of Death.  Any gop member that is willing to compromise stands an excellent chance of being "primaried" by the TP.


----------



## ron4342

blackhawk said:


> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Blackhawk posted:_
> _Every noticed how the people who love predicting the future are wrong a lot?_
> 
> _Ron sez:_
> _Blackhawk, my OP was not a prediction as much as a stating of a series of facts and the logical conclusion they point to._
> _Answer me this; Suppose you are a naturalized Hispanic American and you have several illegal Hispanics who are either related to you or close friends. Suppose also you watch the gop close the door on your family and friends. Would you vote for a candidate who wants your family and friends deported OR would you vote for a party that wants to give your family and friends a path to becoming legal Americans? Seriously, who would you vote for?_
> _Here is another way to look at it. For me to be wrong would require the gop to work with President Obama to provide a path for illegals to become legals. DO YOU REALLY THINK THE GOP IS PREPARED TO WORK WITH OBAMA?_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To my knowledge no serious Republican has called for deportation though I would point out to you entering the country illegally is a crime and thus by law deportation is a possibility I would also point out there are a great many Hispanics who have come to the country through the legal process and might not be inclined to vote for the candidate who is willing to give those who have not a perceived free pass. Marco Rubio has a very good plan he has put forward to give illegals a pathway to citizenship so far I have not seen one from the President or the Democrats so the equally important question that needs to be asked is President Obama and the Democrats truly prepared to work with Rubio and the Republicans? So we will see if the President is truly serious on this issue or does he just want to make a pretense of actually working on it but really do nothing so he can use it as a wedge issue in 2014.
Click to expand...

You could be right.  Hispanics who came to this country legally may feel resentment about those who came here illegally.  But remember, many of those here illegally have been here for some time.  Some have had children that have gone through the school system and college.  They have roots in the community.


----------



## OKTexas

JakeStarkey said:


> The women and Hispanics and minorities of America have told the GOP that they will not tolerate the far right reactionary and TeaP agendas at the national level.
> 
> The polls haven't changed, folks.
> 
> Either we change how we reach out to them, or our GOP will continue to lose Senate and House seats next year.



WOW jakey, you and jones sure have been using reactionary allot, who gave you those marching orders, OFA or media matters?


----------



## blackhawk

ron4342 said:


> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Blackhawk posted:_
> _Every noticed how the people who love predicting the future are wrong a lot?_
> 
> _Ron sez:_
> _Blackhawk, my OP was not a prediction as much as a stating of a series of facts and the logical conclusion they point to._
> _Answer me this; Suppose you are a naturalized Hispanic American and you have several illegal Hispanics who are either related to you or close friends. Suppose also you watch the gop close the door on your family and friends. Would you vote for a candidate who wants your family and friends deported OR would you vote for a party that wants to give your family and friends a path to becoming legal Americans? Seriously, who would you vote for?_
> _Here is another way to look at it. For me to be wrong would require the gop to work with President Obama to provide a path for illegals to become legals. DO YOU REALLY THINK THE GOP IS PREPARED TO WORK WITH OBAMA?_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To my knowledge no serious Republican has called for deportation though I would point out to you entering the country illegally is a crime and thus by law deportation is a possibility I would also point out there are a great many Hispanics who have come to the country through the legal process and might not be inclined to vote for the candidate who is willing to give those who have not a perceived free pass. Marco Rubio has a very good plan he has put forward to give illegals a pathway to citizenship so far I have not seen one from the President or the Democrats so the equally important question that needs to be asked is President Obama and the Democrats truly prepared to work with Rubio and the Republicans? So we will see if the President is truly serious on this issue or does he just want to make a pretense of actually working on it but really do nothing so he can use it as a wedge issue in 2014.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You could be right.  Hispanics who came to this country legally may feel resentment about those who came here illegally.  But remember, many of those here illegally have been here for some time.  Some have had children that have gone through the school system and college.  They have roots in the community.
Click to expand...

Another thing to consider both parties have had pretty much the same views on immigration for a long time and that issue has rarely had a major impact on Congressional races in 2008 when the Democrats won big it was the economy that was the big issue in 2010 when the Republicans made a big comeback Obamacare was the big issue in 2012 the President won easily but Congress stayed pretty much the same which shows me no one was really thrilled with either party. In 2013 we had the shutdown which hurt Republicans and the Obamacare roll out which has hurt Democrats right now I see advantage no one for 2014.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

ron4342 said:


> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Blackhawk posted:_
> _Every noticed how the people who love predicting the future are wrong a lot?_
> 
> _Ron sez:_
> _Blackhawk, my OP was not a prediction as much as a stating of a series of facts and the logical conclusion they point to._
> _Answer me this; Suppose you are a naturalized Hispanic American and you have several illegal Hispanics who are either related to you or close friends. Suppose also you watch the gop close the door on your family and friends. Would you vote for a candidate who wants your family and friends deported OR would you vote for a party that wants to give your family and friends a path to becoming legal Americans? Seriously, who would you vote for?_
> _Here is another way to look at it. For me to be wrong would require the gop to work with President Obama to provide a path for illegals to become legals. DO YOU REALLY THINK THE GOP IS PREPARED TO WORK WITH OBAMA?_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To my knowledge no serious Republican has called for deportation though I would point out to you entering the country illegally is a crime and thus by law deportation is a possibility I would also point out there are a great many Hispanics who have come to the country through the legal process and might not be inclined to vote for the candidate who is willing to give those who have not a perceived free pass. Marco Rubio has a very good plan he has put forward to give illegals a pathway to citizenship so far I have not seen one from the President or the Democrats so the equally important question that needs to be asked is President Obama and the Democrats truly prepared to work with Rubio and the Republicans? So we will see if the President is truly serious on this issue or does he just want to make a pretense of actually working on it but really do nothing so he can use it as a wedge issue in 2014.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You could be right.  Hispanics who came to this country legally may feel resentment about those who came here illegally.  But remember, many of those here illegally have been here for some time.  Some have had children that have gone through the school system and college.  They have roots in the community.
Click to expand...


So do you feel if a fugitive is on the run for a crime, then during the time he has been in hiding he has a family, that this individual should be pardoned for the sake of the kids that have already established themselves in this country? We wouldn't want to see him pulled away and the family broken apart for the sake of committing a crime, now would we?


----------



## ron4342

1776 said:


> Sure dumbfuck...whatever.
> 
> The Democraps lost big time in the last midterm election over "obamacare" and that was before it was actually fucking people's lives up like now. Nevermind the silly website can't work and people realize their "gods in DC" are really liars and idiots.
> 
> It is over for Obama and his fellow scum. Go fuck yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there) and that if the republicans wanted to remain relevant they needed to change also. The recommendation was that the republican party needs to actively work toward bringing Hispanics into the party.
> They have a perfect chance to do that now but I fully expect that the republican party will once again shoot themselves in the foot. What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do. This places the republicans in a bind. Should they strongly support a sweeping immigration plan (similar to what Obama is offering) OR should they dig in their heels and refuse to accept any plan Obama offers just as they have done throughout the last five years.
> I am betting that the republicans will dig in their heels and refuse to offer a plan similar to Obama's. In other words, they will once again play the obstruction card and in the process slap the people who could help them win elections in the face. And then, after losing the Hispanic vote by a wide margin in 2014, they will once again scratch their heads and ask "Why did we lose? I don't understand."
Click to expand...

It is because of an abundance of members of the right like 1776 that I left the republican party.  The last thing I would want is to be in any political party s/he/it (pronounced SHIT) is a member of.  I am even embarrassed that s/he/it is considered a member of the human race.


----------



## ron4342

OKTexas said:


> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Securing the border and a workable entry/exit system is needed before anything else is considered. That will be the republican focus. Once the flood gates are closed then the rest can be addressed. The senate plan is dead because it is unconstitutional, it contains revenue raising aspects in fees and fines that must originate in the house.
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting to note that President Obama has deported more people to Mexico than any other president. Will you give him any praise for that? Of course not. The bottom line is Obama will push for an immigration plan. The gop, thanks to the tea party, will refuse to pass it. The Hispanics will see who is trying to help them and they will show their anger for the gop at the polls. In other words, THE GOP WILL SHOT THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT ONCE AGAIN.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you want to pat him on the head for doing his job when he's not. He has no authority to exempt a whole class of illegals from deportation. Plus I guess you aren't aware that only 60% come in across the southern border, the rest come in on visas and never leave. We need to have an effective system to track them and ensure their departure when their visas expire.
Click to expand...

Obama deporting illegal aliens is EXACTLY what you want!  He has deported more illegal aliens than any president in history.  Yet, you cannot acknowledge that you approve of what he is doing.  This is why I cannot respect you people.  YOU HAVE NO BALANCE.  It makes no difference what Obama does, you will condemn him.  Obama could save your sorry life by carrying you out of a burning building and you would be condemning him all the way.


----------



## ron4342

OKTexas said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sad fact is this reactionaryism and fear of change and diversity is not necessarily republican; there are many republicans who, like democrats, embrace diversity and look forward to change.
> 
> The problem for the GOP concerns the racist, fearful elements that have hijacked a once viable party and turned it into an institution of ignorance and hate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will you ever get off the commiecrat talking points, do you ever have an original thought?
Click to expand...

You may not like what C_Clayton_Jones says but the sad fact he is 100% on target.  You, on the hand, are ignoring truths that are right in front of you.  Until the moderates of the gop kick the TP out the TP will continue to pull the strings.  Case in point:  The government shut-down and debt ceiling disaster.  The people who pushed for and cheered the shut down were the TP.  The sane republicans remembered what happened the last time they shut down the government.  However, they went along with the shut down because they were scared shitless by the TP threatening them with being primaried.


----------



## ron4342

Meister said:


> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Blackhawk posted:_
> _Every noticed how the people who love predicting the future are wrong a lot?_
> 
> _Ron sez:_
> _Blackhawk, my OP was not a prediction as much as a stating of a series of facts and the logical conclusion they point to._
> _Answer me this; Suppose you are a naturalized Hispanic American and you have several illegal Hispanics who are either related to you or close friends. Suppose also you watch the gop close the door on your family and friends. Would you vote for a candidate who wants your family and friends deported OR would you vote for a party that wants to give your family and friends a path to becoming legal Americans? Seriously, who would you vote for?_
> _Here is another way to look at it. For me to be wrong would require the gop to work with President Obama to provide a path for illegals to become legals. DO YOU REALLY THINK THE GOP IS PREPARED TO WORK WITH OBAMA?_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just keep those borders open so "family and friends" can keep coming across.
Click to expand...

DEFLECTION!  Answer the questions that were posed.


----------



## ron4342

Stephanie said:


> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol, he's deported more people...
> yeah sure ok whatever
> as for the rest, you need to ask your crystal ball again
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a perfect example of how the "Bubble People" refuse to accept reality. Without doing a single search stephanie has dismissed the truth which happens to be right in front of her. Just for the hell of it stephanie, GOOGLE "Obama deporting mexicans." The headline below is typical of what you will find.
> 
> *Obama Keeps Up Torrid Pace of Deportations*
> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-11/obama-keeps-up-torrid-pace-of-deportations.html
> 
> The problem here is that stephanie has a cement brain. Nothing gets in that is contrary to what she believes. The bottom line is that stephanie KNOWS what she believes and she does not want to be bothered by facts or the truth. Unfortunately this is pretty much the way the right thinks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ok then, if I found and posted ONE article that say's Obambam is really gay, you are going to just buy that and believe it right?
> 
> post a bloomingidiot article and that makes it automatically the truth, well we can scour the Internet to find article saying different and his administation has been soft on deportations....but you fall for him being superman hero or something..you're an Obama sheep...
Click to expand...

First of all your comment about Obama being "gay" is deflection.
Second, if you had followed the link given you would have found numerous articles all saying the same thing.
Yet you refuse to accept facts that are presented to you because you have already made up your mind and you will be damned if you are going to change it.  YOU KNOW WHAT YOU BELIEVE AND DO NOT WANT TO BE BOTHERED WITH FACTS OR THE TRUTH.


----------



## Avatar4321

Republicans didn't lose big the last two elections. Yes, they lost the Presidency. But they still won more seats in Congress both in 2010 and 2012. 

Is it possible for them to lose big? yes of course. Democraphics aren't fantastic. But the future isn't written. People can be persuaded to follow a different idealogy over time. We don't know what will happen.

So ask yourself. Do we do what is right for the country? Do we persuade people to do good regardless of the Demographics? Do we trust that our brethren will do the right thing? Or do we instead despair and abandon true and correct principles for powers sake? I'd rather be doing what's right and out of power than weilding any power and corrupting myself.


----------



## TemplarKormac

ron4342 said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a perfect example of how the "Bubble People" refuse to accept reality. Without doing a single search stephanie has dismissed the truth which happens to be right in front of her. Just for the hell of it stephanie, GOOGLE "Obama deporting mexicans." The headline below is typical of what you will find.
> 
> *Obama Keeps Up Torrid Pace of Deportations*
> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-11/obama-keeps-up-torrid-pace-of-deportations.html
> 
> The problem here is that stephanie has a cement brain. Nothing gets in that is contrary to what she believes. The bottom line is that stephanie KNOWS what she believes and she does not want to be bothered by facts or the truth. Unfortunately this is pretty much the way the right thinks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ok then, if I found and posted ONE article that say's Obambam is really gay, you are going to just buy that and believe it right?
> 
> post a bloomingidiot article and that makes it automatically the truth, well we can scour the Internet to find article saying different and his administation has been soft on deportations....but you fall for him being superman hero or something..you're an Obama sheep...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> First of all your comment about Obama being "gay" is deflection.
> Second, if you had followed the link given you would have found numerous articles all saying the same thing.
> Yet you refuse to accept facts that are presented to you because you have already made up your mind and you will be damned if you are going to change it.  YOU KNOW WHAT YOU BELIEVE AND DO NOT WANT TO BE BOTHERED WITH FACTS OR THE TRUTH.
Click to expand...


Here's a simple question:

If he is deporting so many people at a staggering pace, why is he giving so many of them amnesty?

(P.S. Knock it off with the bold type. You sound... angry.)


----------



## Zander

Republicans will lose big in 2014 because.....

&#8220;Healthcare.gov is fixable. Period. If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what.&#8221;


----------



## ron4342

TemplarKormac said:


> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ok then, if I found and posted ONE article that say's Obambam is really gay, you are going to just buy that and believe it right?
> 
> post a bloomingidiot article and that makes it automatically the truth, well we can scour the Internet to find article saying different and his administation has been soft on deportations....but you fall for him being superman hero or something..you're an Obama sheep...
> 
> 
> 
> First of all your comment about Obama being "gay" is deflection.
> Second, if you had followed the link given you would have found numerous articles all saying the same thing.
> Yet you refuse to accept facts that are presented to you because you have already made up your mind and you will be damned if you are going to change it. YOU KNOW WHAT YOU BELIEVE AND DO NOT WANT TO BE BOTHERED WITH FACTS OR THE TRUTH.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here's a simple question:
> 
> If he is deporting so many people at a staggering pace, why is he giving so many of them amnesty?
> 
> (P.S. Knock it off with the bold type. You sound... angry.)
Click to expand...

First of all, stephanie claimed that Obama was not deporting record nmbers of aliens. I pointed out that she was wrong and I provided a link to prove what I was saying. Had she followed the link she would have seen she was wrong. However, being rather stupid and lazy she did not check her facts before she made a fool of herself.
Second, feel free to check the facts at the link I provided. As for your question, I do not know the answer however, according to the link Obama is deporting more aliens than any other president in history.
And finally, I am not posting in bold. My moniter gives me very small font which makes this board difficult to read. I post in larger font to make it easier for me to post. Now, if I were posting in bold it would look like this: *This is bold.* I am not angry and I will continue as I have in the past. If you have a way of me making my font more readable feel free to post it.


----------



## OODA_Loop

ron4342 said:


> First of all, stephanie claimed that Obama was not deporting record nmbers of aliens. I pointed out that she was wrong and I provided a link to prove what I was saying. Had she followed the link she would have seen she was wrong. However, being rather stupid and lazy she did not check her facts before she made a fool of herself.






Before 2009, deportations were defined as illegal aliens who got passed the border patrol.  It did not include illegal aliens who were caught crossing the border and then returned.  It only included those who successfully got passed the border patrol and made it into the country.  Obama has inflated the numbers by including illegal aliens in the deportation category who were previously classified as "returns". This is more smoke and mirrors.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...t-deportation-numbers-tell-differen/?page=all


----------



## rightwinger

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> To my knowledge no serious Republican has called for deportation though I would point out to you entering the country illegally is a crime and thus by law deportation is a possibility I would also point out there are a great many Hispanics who have come to the country through the legal process and might not be inclined to vote for the candidate who is willing to give those who have not a perceived free pass. Marco Rubio has a very good plan he has put forward to give illegals a pathway to citizenship so far I have not seen one from the President or the Democrats so the equally important question that needs to be asked is President Obama and the Democrats truly prepared to work with Rubio and the Republicans? So we will see if the President is truly serious on this issue or does he just want to make a pretense of actually working on it but really do nothing so he can use it as a wedge issue in 2014.
> 
> 
> 
> You could be right.  Hispanics who came to this country legally may feel resentment about those who came here illegally.  But remember, many of those here illegally have been here for some time.  Some have had children that have gone through the school system and college.  They have roots in the community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So do you feel if a fugitive is on the run for a crime, then during the time he has been in hiding he has a family, that this individual should be pardoned for the sake of the kids that have already established themselves in this country? We wouldn't want to see him pulled away and the family broken apart for the sake of committing a crime, now would we?
Click to expand...


And that fugitive picks our crops and mows our lawns. That fugitive makes big money for American business who pay no benefits. That fugitive is paying no taxes.  
Why don't we just stop the charade and admit that Mexicans coming here helps our economy and helps the immigrant. Give him guest status and let him work on the books. Let him raise a family and stop hiding. 

If after ten years he has been a productive worker......make him a citizen


----------



## candycorn

ron4342 said:


> After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there) and that if the republicans wanted to remain relevant they needed to change also. The recommendation was that the republican party needs to actively work toward bringing Hispanics into the party.
> They have a perfect chance to do that now but I fully expect that the republican party will once again shoot themselves in the foot. What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do. This places the republicans in a bind. Should they strongly support a sweeping immigration plan (similar to what Obama is offering) OR should they dig in their heels and refuse to accept any plan Obama offers just as they have done throughout the last five years.
> I am betting that the republicans will dig in their heels and refuse to offer a plan similar to Obama's. In other words, they will once again play the obstruction card and in the process slap the people who could help them win elections in the face. And then, after losing the Hispanic vote by a wide margin in 2014, they will once again scratch their heads and ask "Why did we lose? I don't understand."



Doubtful.  2014 should be very good for the GOP.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

rightwinger said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You could be right.  Hispanics who came to this country legally may feel resentment about those who came here illegally.  But remember, many of those here illegally have been here for some time.  Some have had children that have gone through the school system and college.  They have roots in the community.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So do you feel if a fugitive is on the run for a crime, then during the time he has been in hiding he has a family, that this individual should be pardoned for the sake of the kids that have already established themselves in this country? We wouldn't want to see him pulled away and the family broken apart for the sake of committing a crime, now would we?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And that fugitive picks our crops and mows our lawns. That fugitive makes big money for American business who pay no benefits. That fugitive is paying no taxes.
> Why don't we just stop the charade and admit that Mexicans coming here helps our economy and helps the immigrant. Give him guest status and let him work on the books. Let him raise a family and stop hiding.
> 
> If after ten years he has been a productive worker......make him a citizen
Click to expand...


I wasn't speaking about the fugitive being a Hispanic who committed a crime by crossing the border into the United States. However, seeing that you interpreted as such, brings up a valid point. Why is breaking the law and hiding within the country starting a family is ok, however an Anerican citizen who has been on the run for years (living HIS life as a family man) we don't look twice at taking him from his family to face justice for what they committed years ago? We make excuses for what we are willing to allow and look the other way. Justice should be blind, regardless of the law broken you still have to face the fact you had broken the law.


----------



## Mertex

Avatar4321 said:


> So ask yourself. Do we do what is right for the country? Do we persuade people to do good regardless of the Demographics? Do we trust that our brethren will do the right thing?



Is trying to keep millions from being able to afford healthcare "the right thing?"

Is lying about Obamacare in order to persuade those who believe anything the GOP tells them 
"the right thing?"


----------



## PrometheusBound

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like the commies reneged on border security with Reagan?  We can actually learn from history here and not make the same mistakes again. Security will be first with the house all else is dead until that is accomplished.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As long as people in the GOP consider Democrats to be 'Communists,' their party will never get anywhere.  It's so totally foolish and ignorant to hold such a point of view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to do your research, there is a *shared* anti-corporate "share the wealth" ideology among those who are supportive of communism in the United States ... with those of the liberal Democrat party.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have written before that the people's movement that is now emerging doesn't yet possess the transformative power of the movement of the 1930s. That movement set in motion an era of broad, deep-going, democratic, anti-corporate restructuring of our political and economic institutions - and also changed the thinking of tens of milliions.
> 
> But what today's movement does possess is the potential to develop in that direction. All of which begs the question:
> 
> How do we accelerate this transition from a movement with transformative potential to a movement with transformative power and capacity?
> 
> 
> .... It should also be an energetic part of the struggle to give the Republican Party a licking in next year's congressional elections. Defeating right-wing extremist candidates is the key link in moving the whole chain of struggle forward. It will take an expansive coalition of voters, including independents, centrists and even some moderate Republicans.
> 
> - Sam Webb cpusa
> 
> Ingredients for a movement that can transform our country » peoplesworld
> 
> Sam Webb » cpusa
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


And the Demwits could lift a quote from Hitler that "proves" that GOPers are all Nazis.   Guilt-by-Association is a game for the brain-dead.   Lowering yourself to play it discredits any rational point you might try to make.   But why try when you are only preaching to the choir, thrashing your opponents just to get applauded by your cult of the Living Braindead?


----------



## PrometheusBound

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sad fact is this reactionaryism and fear of change and diversity is not necessarily republican; there are many republicans who, like democrats, embrace diversity and look forward to change.
> 
> The problem for the GOP concerns the racist, fearful elements that have hijacked a once viable party and turned it into an institution of ignorance and hate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you provide me a link of Republicans in Congress specifically using racial slurs to describe Hispanics with regard to immigration reform?
Click to expand...


Didn't they invent the Flick-a-**** disposable lighter?


----------



## PrometheusBound

ron4342 said:


> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Blackhawk posted:_
> _Every noticed how the people who love predicting the future are wrong a lot?_
> 
> _Ron sez:_
> _Blackhawk, my OP was not a prediction as much as a stating of a series of facts and the logical conclusion they point to._
> _Answer me this; Suppose you are a naturalized Hispanic American and you have several illegal Hispanics who are either related to you or close friends. Suppose also you watch the gop close the door on your family and friends. Would you vote for a candidate who wants your family and friends deported OR would you vote for a party that wants to give your family and friends a path to becoming legal Americans? Seriously, who would you vote for?_
> _Here is another way to look at it. For me to be wrong would require the gop to work with President Obama to provide a path for illegals to become legals. DO YOU REALLY THINK THE GOP IS PREPARED TO WORK WITH OBAMA?_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To my knowledge no serious Republican has called for deportation though I would point out to you entering the country illegally is a crime and thus by law deportation is a possibility I would also point out there are a great many Hispanics who have come to the country through the legal process and might not be inclined to vote for the candidate who is willing to give those who have not a perceived free pass. Marco Rubio has a very good plan he has put forward to give illegals a pathway to citizenship so far I have not seen one from the President or the Democrats so the equally important question that needs to be asked is President Obama and the Democrats truly prepared to work with Rubio and the Republicans? So we will see if the President is truly serious on this issue or does he just want to make a pretense of actually working on it but really do nothing so he can use it as a wedge issue in 2014.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You could be right.  Hispanics who came to this country   They have roots in the community.
Click to expand...


So do weeds.


----------



## freedombecki

rightwinger said:


> It is the open hatred of Hispanics by the right. The scapegoating, calling them freeloaders and mooches that will doom Republicans
> 
> When are you guys going to learn to play nice?


We play fairly, rightwinger, and you know it, too. We recollect days of the Roughriders, the Alamo, and Goliad. The forces behind LaRaza have an anti-American agenda. They area the ones who aren't playing nice. They want our property. You seem to have no problem with that. When are _you_ going to learn to play nice. hm?


----------



## rightwinger

freedombecki said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the open hatred of Hispanics by the right. The scapegoating, calling them freeloaders and mooches that will doom Republicans
> 
> When are you guys going to learn to play nice?
> 
> 
> 
> We play fairly, rightwinger, and you know it, too. We recollect days of the Roughriders, the Alamo, and Goliad. The forces behind LaRaza have an anti-American agenda. They area the ones who aren't playing nice. They want our property. You seem to have no problem with that. When are _you_ going to learn to play nice. hm?
Click to expand...


Actually, you don't

There is an element of your party that is full of hate. They hate blacks, they hate gays and they hate Hispanics

Don't think for a minute that minorities don't recognize that your party tolerates the haters. They hear it on rightwing media, they hear the TeaTards, They see the legislation coming out of Republicans

Until party leaders start to deal with he haters, you will continue to draw single digits on election day


----------



## Spoonman

rightwinger said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the open hatred of Hispanics by the right. The scapegoating, calling them freeloaders and mooches that will doom Republicans
> 
> When are you guys going to learn to play nice?
> 
> 
> 
> We play fairly, rightwinger, and you know it, too. We recollect days of the Roughriders, the Alamo, and Goliad. The forces behind LaRaza have an anti-American agenda. They area the ones who aren't playing nice. They want our property. You seem to have no problem with that. When are _you_ going to learn to play nice. hm?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, you don't
> 
> There is an element of your party that is full of hate. They hate blacks, they hate gays and they hate Hispanics
> 
> Don't think for a minute that minorities don't recognize that your party tolerates the haters. They hear it on rightwing media, they hear the TeaTards, They see the legislation coming out of Republicans
> 
> Until party leaders start to deal with he haters, you will continue to draw single digits on election day
Click to expand...


and your party hates the religious, gun owners, middle class, small business owners


----------



## freedombecki

rightwinger said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the open hatred of Hispanics by the right. The scapegoating, calling them freeloaders and mooches that will doom Republicans
> 
> When are you guys going to learn to play nice?
> 
> 
> 
> We play fairly, rightwinger, and you know it, too. We recollect days of the Roughriders, the Alamo, and Goliad. The forces behind LaRaza have an anti-American agenda. They area the ones who aren't playing nice. They want our property. You seem to have no problem with that. When are _you_ going to learn to play nice. hm?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, you don't
> 
> There is an element of your party that is full of hate. They hate blacks, they hate gays and they hate Hispanics
> 
> Don't think for a minute that minorities don't recognize that your party tolerates the haters. They hear it on rightwing media, they hear the TeaTards, They see the legislation coming out of Republicans
> 
> Until party leaders start to deal with he haters, you will continue to draw single digits on election day
Click to expand...

You have hate for lawlessness confused with ethnic hatred, Rightwinger. And your party is using language barriers with immigrants to brainwash them into prejudice against conservatives.

You're also moving the nation into an oligarchy that serves itself first.


----------



## OKTexas

rightwinger said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the open hatred of Hispanics by the right. The scapegoating, calling them freeloaders and mooches that will doom Republicans
> 
> When are you guys going to learn to play nice?
> 
> 
> 
> We play fairly, rightwinger, and you know it, too. We recollect days of the Roughriders, the Alamo, and Goliad. The forces behind LaRaza have an anti-American agenda. They area the ones who aren't playing nice. They want our property. You seem to have no problem with that. When are _you_ going to learn to play nice. hm?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, you don't
> 
> There is an element of your party that is full of hate. They hate blacks, they hate gays and they hate Hispanics
> 
> Don't think for a minute that minorities don't recognize that your party tolerates the haters. They hear it on rightwing media, they hear the TeaTards, They see the legislation coming out of Republicans
> 
> Until party leaders start to deal with he haters, you will continue to draw single digits on election day
Click to expand...


Yep, just keep repeating the lie, Hitler would be proud of your propaganda skills. How about giving us some names of people in a position to make policy instead of generalizations, or is this the best ya got.


----------



## rightwinger

freedombecki said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> 
> We play fairly, rightwinger, and you know it, too. We recollect days of the Roughriders, the Alamo, and Goliad. The forces behind LaRaza have an anti-American agenda. They area the ones who aren't playing nice. They want our property. You seem to have no problem with that. When are _you_ going to learn to play nice. hm?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you don't
> 
> There is an element of your party that is full of hate. They hate blacks, they hate gays and they hate Hispanics
> 
> Don't think for a minute that minorities don't recognize that your party tolerates the haters. They hear it on rightwing media, they hear the TeaTards, They see the legislation coming out of Republicans
> 
> Until party leaders start to deal with he haters, you will continue to draw single digits on election day
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have hate for lawlessness confused with ethnic hatred, Rightwinger. And your party is using language barriers with immigrants to brainwash them into prejudice against conservatives.
> 
> You're also moving the nation into an oligarchy that serves itself first.
Click to expand...


Becki, look

You read this board everyday and you can't ignore the hate coming from a certain element of your party. You can keep your head in the sand. Blame Democrats for doing the same thing.......but it is there
Minorities read these boards, they hear what talk radio says about them. You think they don't hold it against Republicans?
Republicans are getting killed in the voting booth. You can blame the liberal media and free stuff
But until Republicans can clean up their act, they will pay a political price


----------



## Spoonman

ron4342 said:


> After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there) and that if the republicans wanted to remain relevant they needed to change also. The recommendation was that the republican party needs to actively work toward bringing Hispanics into the party.
> They have a perfect chance to do that now but I fully expect that the republican party will once again shoot themselves in the foot. What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do. This places the republicans in a bind. Should they strongly support a sweeping immigration plan (similar to what Obama is offering) OR should they dig in their heels and refuse to accept any plan Obama offers just as they have done throughout the last five years.
> I am betting that the republicans will dig in their heels and refuse to offer a plan similar to Obama's. In other words, they will once again play the obstruction card and in the process slap the people who could help them win elections in the face. And then, after losing the Hispanic vote by a wide margin in 2014, they will once again scratch their heads and ask "Why did we lose? I don't understand."



the democrats already gave 2014 away with their attack on the 2nd amendment.   they are going to lose in places they had strong holds because of that one


----------



## Zander

rightwinger said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you don't
> 
> There is an element of your party that is full of hate. They hate blacks, they hate gays and they hate Hispanics
> 
> Don't think for a minute that minorities don't recognize that your party tolerates the haters. They hear it on rightwing media, they hear the TeaTards, They see the legislation coming out of Republicans
> 
> Until party leaders start to deal with he haters, you will continue to draw single digits on election day
> 
> 
> 
> You have hate for lawlessness confused with ethnic hatred, Rightwinger. And your party is using language barriers with immigrants to brainwash them into prejudice against conservatives.
> 
> You're also moving the nation into an oligarchy that serves itself first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Becki, look
> 
> You read this board everyday and you can't ignore the hate coming from a certain element of your party. You can keep your head in the sand. Blame Democrats for doing the same thing.......but it is there
> Minorities read these boards, they hear what talk radio says about them. You think they don't hold it against Republicans?
> *Republicans are getting killed in the voting booth*. You can blame the liberal media and free stuff
> But until Republicans can clean up their act, they will pay a political price
Click to expand...


What alternate universe do you live in?   The real power for the Republicans is on the state level, and there they are dominating Democrats....Republicans control the governor's mansion in 30 of 50 states, and control both legislative chambers in 26 states.  That's punishment? Please, punish the GOP more!!


----------



## Stephanie

Zander said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have hate for lawlessness confused with ethnic hatred, Rightwinger. And your party is using language barriers with immigrants to brainwash them into prejudice against conservatives.
> 
> You're also moving the nation into an oligarchy that serves itself first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Becki, look
> 
> You read this board everyday and you can't ignore the hate coming from a certain element of your party. You can keep your head in the sand. Blame Democrats for doing the same thing.......but it is there
> Minorities read these boards, they hear what talk radio says about them. You think they don't hold it against Republicans?
> *Republicans are getting killed in the voting booth*. You can blame the liberal media and free stuff
> But until Republicans can clean up their act, they will pay a political price
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What alternate universe do you live in?   The real power for the Republicans is on the state level, and there they are dominating Democrats....Republicans control the governor's mansion in 30 of 50 states, and control both legislative chambers in 26 states.  That's punishment? Please, punish the GOP more!!
Click to expand...


lol, that was rightwhiners wet dreams he just posted
he is full of so much BS, lies and spreading hate...


----------



## RoadVirus

ron4342 said:


> What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do.



Translation: The GOP needs to get on their knees and give the nice Brown people blowjobs just like Odumbo and the Dumbocratic Party is doing now.

Uh...Mr. President? Yeah...you got some gooey white stuff on your lips there. Better wipe that off. And Mr. Reid? You do too, sir.


----------



## Neotrotsky

The Left has made it easy for the GOP to win

LA Times: Some health insurance gets pricier as Obamacare rolls out

_Thousands of Californians are discovering what Obamacare will cost them &#8212; and many don't like what they see.

These middle-class consumers are staring at hefty increases on their insurance bills as the overhaul remakes the healthcare market. Their rates are rising in large part to help offset the higher costs of covering sicker, poorer people who have been shut out of the system for years._​_
Fullerton resident Jennifer Harris thought she had a great deal, paying $98 a month for an individual plan through Health Net Inc.

Now Harris, a self-employed lawyer, must shop for replacement insurance. The cheapest plan she has found will cost her $238 a month. She and her husband don't qualify for federal premium subsidies because they earn too much money, about $80,000 a year combined.

Pam Kehaly, president of Anthem Blue Cross in California, said she received a recent letter from a young woman complaining about a 50% rate hike related to the healthcare law.

"She said, 'I was all for Obamacare until I found out I was paying for it,'" Kehaly said.

Nearly 2 million Californians have individual insurance, and several hundred thousand of them are losing their health plans in a matter of weeks.

Blue Shield of California sent termination letters to 119,000 customers last month whose plans don't meet the new federal requirements. About two-thirds of those people will experience a rate increase from switching to a new health plan, according to the company._​


----------



## JakeStarkey

Hopefully, Neo, that will be worked out more fairly in the future.

But an impact on less than 2% of the population will not affect elections much, particularly when several times that amount (think of Texas, in particular) are affected positively by the program.

Once again, our GOP brought this on because it sold out to Big Business when it could have offered a reform at that the state levels.


----------



## Gadawg73

Gay boogeyman and abortion is what loses elections for GOP. 
The 2012 platform was a joke. 
I vote GOP most all the time and tired of getting our ass kicked because we are dumb asses accepting the platform of gays wanting to get married and women having abortion cause all the nation's problems.
Allowing those lame brain stances to stand we should lose.


----------



## ron4342

Spoonman said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> 
> and your party hates the religious, gun owners, middle class, small business owners
> 
> 
> 
> Let's clarify some things here.
> I DO NOT hate people who are religious.
> I DO HATE those people who try to force their religious beliefs on others.
> I DO NOT hate gun owners.  My wife and I own 2 shotguns, 2 deer rifles, a 9 mm Glock, a 9 mm Smith and Wesson, a 3.57 Ruger, a .22 cal Ruger semi-automatic, and one or two other weapons.
> I DO HATE gun owners who wave their guns around like they are some kind of badge for being a good American.  I hate them for having to show them off so they can strike fear into others and to prove how macho they are.  And I hate them for occasionally leaving their guns unsecured which allows them to be used illegally to kill innocent victims.
> I DO NOT hate the middle class.  I AM THE MIDDLE CLASS!!!!!!!
> I DO HATE those who are working to destroy the middle class by taxing them out of existance while working for tax breaks for the wealthy.
> I DO NOT hate small business owners.  For much of my life I have worked for small business owners and have been thankful for the opportunity.
> I DO HATE those who feel the small business owners should carry their weight regarding taxes and that they should pay fair wages rather than treating their employees like slaves.
> If you believe everything you are whinning about, you are one ignorant and fu#ked up individual.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Neotrotsky

Zander said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have hate for lawlessness confused with ethnic hatred, Rightwinger. And your party is using language barriers with immigrants to brainwash them into prejudice against conservatives.
> 
> You're also moving the nation into an oligarchy that serves itself first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Becki, look
> 
> You read this board everyday and you can't ignore the hate coming from a certain element of your party. You can keep your head in the sand. Blame Democrats for doing the same thing.......but it is there
> Minorities read these boards, they hear what talk radio says about them. You think they don't hold it against Republicans?
> *Republicans are getting killed in the voting booth*. You can blame the liberal media and free stuff
> But until Republicans can clean up their act, they will pay a political price
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What alternate universe do you live in?   The real power for the Republicans is on the state level, and there they are dominating Democrats....Republicans control the governor's mansion in 30 of 50 states, and control both legislative chambers in 26 states.  That's punishment? Please, punish the GOP more!!
Click to expand...


Indeed

Considering that the mess PapaObama care is going to make for them
Explains why the reactionary left waited until after the elections to start it

They did not want the public to see how bad it really is going to be

Forbes
Obamacare's Website Is Crashing Because It Doesn't Want You To Know How Costly Its Plans Are


_Healthcare.gov was initially going to include an option to browse before registering, report Christopher Weaver and Louise Radnofsky in the Wall Street Journal. But that tool was delayed, people familiar with the situation said. Why was it delayed? An HHS spokeswoman said the agency wanted to ensure that users were aware of their eligibility for subsidies that could help pay for coverage, before they started seeing the prices of policies. _​

_A Manhattan Institute analysis I helped conduct found that, on average, the cheapest plan offered in a given state, under Obamacare, will be 99 percent more expensive for men, and 62 percent more expensive for women, than the cheapest plan offered under the old system. And those disparities are even wider for healthy people.

That raises an obvious question. If 50 million people are uninsured today, mainly because insurance is too expensive, why is it better to make coverage even costlier?_​


----------



## Spoonman

ron4342 said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's clarify some things here.
> I DO NOT hate people who are religious.
> I DO HATE those people who try to force their religious beliefs on others.  like atheists?
> I DO NOT hate gun owners.  My wife and I own 2 shotguns, 2 deer rifles, a 9 mm Glock, a 9 mm Smith and Wesson, a 3.57 Ruger, a .22 cal Ruger semi-automatic, and one or two other weapons.
> I DO HATE gun owners who wave their guns around like they are some kind of badge for being a good American.  I hate them for having to show them off so they can strike fear into others and to prove how macho they are.  And I hate them for occasionally leaving their guns unsecured which allows them to be used illegally to kill innocent victims.  hmmm,  I've never seen anyone walking around waving their guns
> I DO NOT hate the middle class.  I AM THE MIDDLE CLASS!!!!!!!
> I DO HATE those who are working to destroy the middle class by taxing them out of existance while working for tax breaks for the wealthy. so you mean the democrats, obamacare being the latest in their long line of taxes on the middle class
> I DO NOT hate small business owners.  For much of my life I have worked for small business owners and have been thankful for the opportunity.
> I DO HATE those who feel the small business owners should carry their weight regarding taxes and that they should pay fair wages rather than treating their employees like slaves.
> If you believe everything you are whinning about, you are one ignorant and fu#ked up individual. again you mean the democrats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^^^^^
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## ron4342

PrometheusBound said:


> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> To my knowledge no serious Republican has called for deportation though I would point out to you entering the country illegally is a crime and thus by law deportation is a possibility I would also point out there are a great many Hispanics who have come to the country through the legal process and might not be inclined to vote for the candidate who is willing to give those who have not a perceived free pass. Marco Rubio has a very good plan he has put forward to give illegals a pathway to citizenship so far I have not seen one from the President or the Democrats so the equally important question that needs to be asked is President Obama and the Democrats truly prepared to work with Rubio and the Republicans? So we will see if the President is truly serious on this issue or does he just want to make a pretense of actually working on it but really do nothing so he can use it as a wedge issue in 2014.
> 
> 
> 
> You could be right. Hispanics who came to this country They have roots in the community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So do weeds.
Click to expand...

Hummmmm......  You wish to compare illegal Hispanics to "weeds."  It is exactly this attitude that is expressed by the racist element of the gop that drives Hispanics to vote Democrat.  And it is exactly this attitude that I wrote about in the OP.
Oh, and one final thought:  Sage is a weed that is used to flavor a lot of dishes that are served in the US.  For example, your Thanksgiving dressing for a start.  Marijuana is a weed that helps to take away pain from people with chronic illnesses and cancer.  It is also used for the fibers it produces.  And finally, it will be a source of income for the US government when it is legalized.  There are other weeds that make our lives better.


----------



## ron4342

freedombecki said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> 
> We play fairly, rightwinger, and you know it, too. We recollect days of the Roughriders, the Alamo, and Goliad. The forces behind LaRaza have an anti-American agenda. They area the ones who aren't playing nice. They want our property. You seem to have no problem with that. When are _you_ going to learn to play nice. hm?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you don't
> 
> There is an element of your party that is full of hate. They hate blacks, they hate gays and they hate Hispanics
> 
> Don't think for a minute that minorities don't recognize that your party tolerates the haters. They hear it on rightwing media, they hear the TeaTards, They see the legislation coming out of Republicans
> 
> Until party leaders start to deal with he haters, you will continue to draw single digits on election day
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have hate for lawlessness confused with ethnic hatred, Rightwinger. And your party is using language barriers with immigrants to brainwash them into prejudice against conservatives.
> 
> You're also moving the nation into an oligarchy that serves itself first.
Click to expand...

Nobody is being brain washed.  What is happening is that the right is showing their true beliefs and anyone with even half a brain is rejecting what conservatives have to offer.  Why would a legal Hispanic vote for a party that will boot his brothers family alone with other family friends out of the country without giving them a path to citizenship?  Why would a black vote for a party that is doing EVERTHING in its power to take away their vote by bringing back Jim Crow laws?  No, there is no brain washing but there is a light being shined on the gop and the result is a rather ugly picture.


----------



## Zander

I think the GOP needs to be the "economic" party- promoting fiscally responsible, efficient government, and maximum FREEDOM.  The social agenda is toxic.


----------



## ron4342

OKTexas said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> 
> We play fairly, rightwinger, and you know it, too. We recollect days of the Roughriders, the Alamo, and Goliad. The forces behind LaRaza have an anti-American agenda. They area the ones who aren't playing nice. They want our property. You seem to have no problem with that. When are _you_ going to learn to play nice. hm?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you don't
> 
> There is an element of your party that is full of hate. They hate blacks, they hate gays and they hate Hispanics
> 
> Don't think for a minute that minorities don't recognize that your party tolerates the haters. They hear it on rightwing media, they hear the TeaTards, They see the legislation coming out of Republicans
> 
> Until party leaders start to deal with he haters, you will continue to draw single digits on election day
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep, just keep repeating the lie, Hitler would be proud of your propaganda skills. How about giving us some names of people in a position to make policy instead of generalizations, or is this the best ya got.
Click to expand...

And the "best ya got" is pulling out your Hitler comparison.  Beside being totally untrue it is just another lie the right like to throw around.  
"If you don't agree with us you are just like Hitler."
Please, try to think like an adult rather than a third grade name caller.


----------



## ron4342

Spoonman said:


> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there) and that if the republicans wanted to remain relevant they needed to change also. The recommendation was that the republican party needs to actively work toward bringing Hispanics into the party.
> They have a perfect chance to do that now but I fully expect that the republican party will once again shoot themselves in the foot. What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do. This places the republicans in a bind. Should they strongly support a sweeping immigration plan (similar to what Obama is offering) OR should they dig in their heels and refuse to accept any plan Obama offers just as they have done throughout the last five years.
> I am betting that the republicans will dig in their heels and refuse to offer a plan similar to Obama's. In other words, they will once again play the obstruction card and in the process slap the people who could help them win elections in the face. And then, after losing the Hispanic vote by a wide margin in 2014, they will once again scratch their heads and ask "Why did we lose? I don't understand."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the democrats already gave 2014 away with their attack on the 2nd amendment. they are going to lose in places they had strong holds because of that one
Click to expand...

I'll bet you are one of those who get their information from limbaugh and fox news.  I'll also bet you were one of those screaming about how romney would win the White House and how republicans would make huge gains in both the House and Senate.


----------



## blackhawk

A lot of things could influence the 2014 election one way or the other but the two main ones will be Obamacare and the economy if the economy stays soft and sluggish and Obamacare does not deliver as promised advantage Republicans if the economy gets stronger and Obamacare is not a complete disaster advantage Democrats. Of course there could also be unknown foreign policy issues that could pop up and swing the balance as well.


----------



## whitehall

The problem with low information lefties is that when they do read they tend to read the single syllable junk they like to hear from unreliable sources like Huffington and Media Matters.


----------



## ron4342

Zander said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have hate for lawlessness confused with ethnic hatred, Rightwinger. And your party is using language barriers with immigrants to brainwash them into prejudice against conservatives.
> 
> You're also moving the nation into an oligarchy that serves itself first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Becki, look
> 
> You read this board everyday and you can't ignore the hate coming from a certain element of your party. You can keep your head in the sand. Blame Democrats for doing the same thing.......but it is there
> Minorities read these boards, they hear what talk radio says about them. You think they don't hold it against Republicans?
> *Republicans are getting killed in the voting booth*. You can blame the liberal media and free stuff
> But until Republicans can clean up their act, they will pay a political price
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What alternate universe do you live in? The real power for the Republicans is on the state level, and there they are dominating Democrats....Republicans control the governor's mansion in 30 of 50 states, and control both legislative chambers in 26 states. That's punishment? Please, punish the GOP more!!
Click to expand...

That is about to change in Virginia.  I suspect a Democratic governor will in North Carolina.  I also suspect that Wisconsin and possibly Texas will soon see Democratic governors.  What you don't understand is that even on a state level republican governors have shown themselves to be power hungery and unconcerned about the welfare of the citizens in their states.  THERE IS A REASON REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS ARE WORKING SO HARD TO DISINFRANCHISE THE CITIZENS OF THEIR STATES AND IT HAS NOT GONE UNNOTICED.


----------



## ron4342

RoadVirus said:


> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: The GOP needs to get on their knees and give the nice Brown people blowjobs just like Odumbo and the Dumbocratic Party is doing now.
> 
> Uh...Mr. President? Yeah...you got some gooey white stuff on your lips there. Better wipe that off. And Mr. Reid? You do too, sir.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing 9th grade or possibly a slow 10th grader.


----------



## Neotrotsky

make your points- fine
but cut back on bold print
please


----------



## ron4342

Zander said:


> I think the GOP needs to be the "economic" party- promoting fiscally responsible, efficient government, and maximum FREEDOM. The social agenda is toxic.


The "economic" party you are calling for almost put this country into the biggest depression since the 30's.  Both reagan and george w. added huge amounts to the national debt.  george w. cut taxes and borrowed money to pay for two wars.  george w. also gave us Medicare part D but he did not provide a means for funding the program.  During the last months of the george w. administration we were losing 750,000 jobs a month.  Now, explain to me how that qualifies the republicans to be in charge of the economy.


----------



## ron4342

whitehall said:


> The problem with low information lefties is that when they do read they tend to read the single syllable junk they like to hear from unreliable sources like Huffington and Media Matters.


As opposed to the intelligent and unbiased reports from Hannity, limbaugh, and fox news.  I must confess, it takes a LOT of gall to accuse others of being "low information" when those are the primary news sources of the right.  Consider the headline below and tell me again about the "low information" party.
*STUDY: Watching Only Fox News Makes You Less Informed Than Watching No News At  All
*
Read more:  http://www.businessinsider.com/study-watching-fox-news-makes-you-less-informed-than-watching-no-news-at-all-2012-5#ixzz2iz1NfyPi


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

ron4342 said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the GOP needs to be the "economic" party- promoting fiscally responsible, efficient government, and maximum FREEDOM. The social agenda is toxic.
> 
> 
> 
> The "economic" party you are calling for almost put this country into the biggest depression since the 30's.  Both reagan and george w. added huge amounts to the national debt.  george w. cut taxes and borrowed money to pay for two wars.  george w. also gave us Medicare part D but he did not provide a means for funding the program.  During the last months of the george w. administration we were losing 750,000 jobs a month.  Now, explain to me how that qualifies the republicans to be in charge of the economy.
Click to expand...


It doesnt.

For decades republicans have made empty promises of fiscal responsibility and have failed to follow through.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Meister said:


> In regards to immigration....is it too much to ask to close the border first, before going any further?  I mean, it was supposed to be closed after the Reagan amnesty.....right????
> I think that's the biggest hang up with immigration.
> 
> It's hard to deal with a party who's intent is to redistribute wealth in this country.....the takers will always vote for that.  Hopefully there will be enough democrats who are beginning to feel the pinch of the redistribution of wealth regarding Obamacare.  People tend to be lax regarding politics until it hits home with them, then they catch on quickly.



Which one?

Which border is wide open?

FACT is, our southern border is better protected than any of the others. And, as we all know, the president has deported more illegals than any other president, has put more Border Patrol on the southern border even though REPUBLICANs McCain and Kyl fought against it for years and, he has refused to pass an amnesty program. Instead, he agreed to a two year moratorium for a very small number of people. 

Saw on the news earlier that some dumb ass Repub wants an amnesty bill. If anyone cares enough to know who, look it up. 

I wish the rw's would stop believing the shit from their overlords, lushbo, beck, etc. Not hard to believe that not one of you has ever actually been to our southern border.


----------



## Neotrotsky

ron4342 said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with low information lefties is that when they do read they tend to read the single syllable junk they like to hear from unreliable sources like Huffington and Media Matters.
> 
> 
> 
> As opposed to the intelligent and unbiased reports from Hannity, limbaugh, and fox news.  I must confess, it takes a LOT of gall to accuse others of being "low information" when those are the primary news sources of the right.  Consider the headline below and tell me again about the "low information" party.
> *STUDY: Watching Only Fox News Makes You Less Informed Than Watching No News At  All
> *
> Read more:  http://www.businessinsider.com/study-watching-fox-news-makes-you-less-informed-than-watching-no-news-at-all-2012-5#ixzz2iz1NfyPi
Click to expand...




If the print gets any bigger
people will begin to think you have
a "compensating issue"


----------



## Luddly Neddite

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the GOP needs to be the "economic" party- promoting fiscally responsible, efficient government, and maximum FREEDOM. The social agenda is toxic.
> 
> 
> 
> The "economic" party you are calling for almost put this country into the biggest depression since the 30's.  Both reagan and george w. added huge amounts to the national debt.  george w. cut taxes and borrowed money to pay for two wars.  george w. also gave us Medicare part D but he did not provide a means for funding the program.  During the last months of the george w. administration we were losing 750,000 jobs a month.  Now, explain to me how that qualifies the republicans to be in charge of the economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesnt.
> 
> For decades republicans have made empty promises of fiscal responsibility and have failed to follow through.
Click to expand...


Funny how its ALWAYS the Rs who are the biggest spenders.


----------



## ron4342

Neotrotsky said:


> make your points- fine
> but cut back on bold print
> please


I would love to, however my moniter gives me an extremely small font for this board.  It is difficult for me to read.  I generally use a 14 font which appears on my screen as about 1/8".  I have absolutely no idea how large my posts appear on your screen.  Make a suggestion and I will give it a try.


----------



## jasonnfree

blackhawk said:


> Every noticed how the people who love predicting the future are wrong a lot?



bush predicted Iraq a quick win , wouldn't cost much.   Of course most every   repig here was predicting an easy romney win.


----------



## ron4342

Neotrotsky said:


> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with low information lefties is that when they do read they tend to read the single syllable junk they like to hear from unreliable sources like Huffington and Media Matters.
> 
> 
> 
> As opposed to the intelligent and unbiased reports from Hannity, limbaugh, and fox news. I must confess, it takes a LOT of gall to accuse others of being "low information" when those are the primary news sources of the right. Consider the headline below and tell me again about the "low information" party.
> *STUDY: Watching Only Fox News Makes You Less Informed Than Watching No News At All*
> 
> Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/study-watching-fox-news-makes-you-less-informed-than-watching-no-news-at-all-2012-5#ixzz2iz1NfyPi
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If the print gets any bigger
> people will begin to think you have
> a "compensating issue"
Click to expand...

I would love to, however my moniter gives me an extremely small font for this board. It is difficult for me to read. I generally use a 14 font which appears on my screen as about 1/8". I have absolutely no idea how large my posts appear on your screen. Make a suggestion and I will give it a try.


----------



## Neotrotsky

ron4342 said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> make your points- fine
> but cut back on bold print
> please
> 
> 
> 
> I would love to, however my moniter gives me an extremely small font for this board.  It is difficult for me to read.  I generally use a 14 font which appears on my screen as about 1/8".  I have absolutely no idea how large my posts appear on your screen.  Make a suggestion and I will give it a try.
Click to expand...


Well if it is a medical/sight issue - as they say in NY- "forget about it"
If you have computer issue- cool , so be it

Don't worry about it


----------



## Neotrotsky

Neotrotsky said:


> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> make your points- fine
> but cut back on bold print
> please
> 
> 
> 
> I would love to, however my moniter gives me an extremely small font for this board.  It is difficult for me to read.  I generally use a 14 font which appears on my screen as about 1/8".  I have absolutely no idea how large my posts appear on your screen.  Make a suggestion and I will give it a try.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well if it is a medical/sight issue - as they say in NY- "forget about it"
> If you have computer issue- cool , so be it
> 
> 
> Don't worry about it
Click to expand...


the editor says 
if that helps


----------



## MeBelle

Funnier how* it's always *idiots who put up a 'graph' without a link.

Funnier is how this particular graph comes from "Office of the Democratic Leader" dated 5-3-11.  *Source:  Treasury Dept.  

Funniest is this awesome graph runs through 4-2011 and we are currently in 
10-2013.




> Funny how* its ALWAYS *the Rs who are the biggest spenders.


----------



## Zander

ron4342 said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the GOP needs to be the "economic" party- promoting fiscally responsible, efficient government, and maximum FREEDOM. The social agenda is toxic.
> 
> 
> 
> The "economic" party you are calling for almost put this country into the biggest depression since the 30's.  Both reagan and george w. added huge amounts to the national debt.  george w. cut taxes and borrowed money to pay for two wars.  george w. also gave us Medicare part D but he did not provide a means for funding the program.  During the last months of the george w. administration we were losing 750,000 jobs a month.  Now, explain to me how that qualifies the republicans to be in charge of the economy.
Click to expand...


We've never had an "economic" party.


----------



## JakeStarkey

"Hummmmm...... You wish to compare illegal Hispanics to "weeds." It is exactly this attitude that is expressed by the racist element of the gop that drives Hispanics to vote Democrat. And it is exactly this attitude that I wrote about in the OP."

This type of irrational attitude by the far right of the GOP toward Hispanics, other minorities, and women guarantee the blueing of the country.  

The millennial generation registers 20% Hispanic right now.  All women voted 55% and single women 65% and Hispanics 81% and so forth for the Dems last time.  By 2050, 1/3d of the country will be Latino.

A once solid red state, VA, is going to elect a terrible Dem for governor because the TeaP GOP candidate is even worse.  The state is going purple with no indications of any reversal.  Texas by 2020 will be purple and solidly blue by 2024 along with NM and AZ.

Either the GOP adjusts to demographic and cultural reality, or it will go down the drain with the likes of NeoTrotsky et al over the next few election cycles.


----------



## ron4342

Neotrotsky said:


> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> make your points- fine
> but cut back on bold print
> please
> 
> 
> 
> I would love to, however my moniter gives me an extremely small font for this board. It is difficult for me to read. I generally use a 14 font which appears on my screen as about 1/8". I have absolutely no idea how large my posts appear on your screen. Make a suggestion and I will give it a try.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well if it is a medical/sight issue - as they say in NY- "forget about it"
> If you have computer issue- cool , so be it
> 
> Don't worry about it
Click to expand...

Believe me, I would like to post a smaller font.  I have looked all over this website to see if it was possible to change the size of the fonts in the various posts.  I have been unable to find a place that allows that.  If you or someone knows how to adjust the fonts so I can be consistant with the rest of the board while being able to easily read my own posts I would be glad to give it a try.


----------



## ron4342

Zander said:


> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the GOP needs to be the "economic" party- promoting fiscally responsible, efficient government, and maximum FREEDOM. The social agenda is toxic.
> 
> 
> 
> The "economic" party you are calling for almost put this country into the biggest depression since the 30's. Both reagan and george w. added huge amounts to the national debt. george w. cut taxes and borrowed money to pay for two wars. george w. also gave us Medicare part D but he did not provide a means for funding the program. During the last months of the george w. administration we were losing 750,000 jobs a month. Now, explain to me how that qualifies the republicans to be in charge of the economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We've never had an "economic" party.
Click to expand...

Saying you are the economic party and being the economic party are two completely different things.  The recent history of the republic party shows a party that spends like a drunken sailor when they are IN power and screams about the national debt when they are OUT of power.  Changing the name of the party while not changing your way of doing business will not cut it.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

PrometheusBound said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> As long as people in the GOP consider Democrats to be 'Communists,' their party will never get anywhere.  It's so totally foolish and ignorant to hold such a point of view.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to do your research, there is a *shared* anti-corporate "share the wealth" ideology among those who are supportive of communism in the United States ... with those of the liberal Democrat party.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have written before that the people's movement that is now emerging doesn't yet possess the transformative power of the movement of the 1930s. That movement set in motion an era of broad, deep-going, democratic, anti-corporate restructuring of our political and economic institutions - and also changed the thinking of tens of milliions.
> 
> But what today's movement does possess is the potential to develop in that direction. All of which begs the question:
> 
> How do we accelerate this transition from a movement with transformative potential to a movement with transformative power and capacity?
> 
> 
> .... It should also be an energetic part of the struggle to give the Republican Party a licking in next year's congressional elections. Defeating right-wing extremist candidates is the key link in moving the whole chain of struggle forward. It will take an expansive coalition of voters, including independents, centrists and even some moderate Republicans.
> 
> - Sam Webb cpusa
> 
> Ingredients for a movement that can transform our country » peoplesworld
> 
> Sam Webb » cpusa
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And the Demwits could lift a quote from Hitler that "proves" that GOPers are all Nazis.   Guilt-by-Association is a game for the brain-dead.   Lowering yourself to play it discredits any rational point you might try to make.   But why try when you are only preaching to the choir, thrashing your opponents just to get applauded by your cult of the Living Braindead?
Click to expand...


I provided facts that there is a communist movement within the United States, and their ideological platform is very similar to that of liberal democrats. Just as the Republicans have a "religious right" fraction within their party, so does the Democrats include those of the cpusa. You can run to your "Hitler" like propaganda if it makes you feel better, however I DID supply a solid LINK stating their position and their chosen party they are willing to stand behind. Not all Democrats are affiliated with those of communists, however to say no such party exists is to remain ignorant of the facts.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

rightwinger said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the open hatred of Hispanics by the right. The scapegoating, calling them freeloaders and mooches that will doom Republicans
> 
> When are you guys going to learn to play nice?
> 
> 
> 
> We play fairly, rightwinger, and you know it, too. We recollect days of the Roughriders, the Alamo, and Goliad. The forces behind LaRaza have an anti-American agenda. They area the ones who aren't playing nice. They want our property. You seem to have no problem with that. When are _you_ going to learn to play nice. hm?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, you don't
> 
> There is an element of your party that is full of hate. They hate blacks, they hate gays and they hate Hispanics
> 
> Don't think for a minute that minorities don't recognize that your party tolerates the haters. They hear it on rightwing media, they hear the TeaTards, They see the legislation coming out of Republicans
> 
> Until party leaders start to deal with he haters, you will continue to draw single digits on election day
Click to expand...


I'll remember that the next time Democrats run against a black Republican and choose to refer to him as an "Uncle Tom", over a debate on the issues. What makes you think all black individuals happen to be of the Democrat persuasion? What makes you believe all Hispanics affiliate themselves with progressives? Those in glass houses should think twice about throwing stones. You can debate on the issue, but when you begin to refer to your opponent as an "Uncle Tom" based upon their race, then you have just lost your credibility to honestly and intellectually debate the issues.


----------



## Political Junky

rightwinger said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sad fact is this reactionaryism and fear of change and diversity is not necessarily republican; there are many republicans who, like democrats, embrace diversity and look forward to change.
> 
> The problem for the GOP concerns the racist, fearful elements that have hijacked a once viable party and turned it into an institution of ignorance and hate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will you ever get off the commiecrat talking points, do you ever have an original thought?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Commie?
> 
> Is that the best you got?
> 
> Haven't you guys progressed from the 1950s?  Its like a time warp
Click to expand...

That's the best many on the Right have.


----------



## ron4342

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> PrometheusBound said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to do your research, there is a *shared* anti-corporate "share the wealth" ideology among those who are supportive of communism in the United States ... with those of the liberal Democrat party.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the Demwits could lift a quote from Hitler that "proves" that GOPers are all Nazis. Guilt-by-Association is a game for the brain-dead. Lowering yourself to play it discredits any rational point you might try to make. But why try when you are only preaching to the choir, thrashing your opponents just to get applauded by your cult of the Living Braindead?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I provided facts that there is a communist movement within the United States, and their ideological platform is very similar to that of liberal democrats. Just as the Republicans have a "religious right" fraction within their party, so does the Democrats include those of the cpusa. You can run to your "Hitler" like propaganda if it makes you feel better, however I DID supply a solid LINK stating their position and their chosen party they are willing to stand behind. Not all Democrats are affiliated with those of communists, however to say no such party exists is to remain ignorant of the facts.
Click to expand...

HORSESHIT!!!! I will waste no more time on your outlandish statement about Democrats having a communist agenda. It makes exactly as much sense as claiming the Democrats are out to promote a flat earth agenda for the US. You may claim you see solid proof but I know people who claim there is solid proof for unicorns.  That does not prove unicorns exist.


----------



## ron4342

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> 
> We play fairly, rightwinger, and you know it, too. We recollect days of the Roughriders, the Alamo, and Goliad. The forces behind LaRaza have an anti-American agenda. They area the ones who aren't playing nice. They want our property. You seem to have no problem with that. When are _you_ going to learn to play nice. hm?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you don't
> 
> There is an element of your party that is full of hate. They hate blacks, they hate gays and they hate Hispanics
> 
> Don't think for a minute that minorities don't recognize that your party tolerates the haters. They hear it on rightwing media, they hear the TeaTards, They see the legislation coming out of Republicans
> 
> Until party leaders start to deal with he haters, you will continue to draw single digits on election day
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll remember that the next time Democrats run against a black Republican and choose to refer to him as an "Uncle Tom", over a debate on the issues. What makes you think all black individuals happen to be of the Democrat persuasion? What makes you believe all Hispanics affiliate themselves with progressives? Those in glass houses should think twice about throwing stones. You can debate on the issue, but when you begin to refer to your opponent as an "Uncle Tom" based upon their race, then you have just lost your credibility to honestly and intellectually debate the issues.
Click to expand...

 First of all, I do not believe I have ever seen a Democrat refer to a black republican as an "Uncle Tom."  I have seen republicans make that claim about blacks who support the Democratic party.  And ever if one did, it would not be the overall opinion of the Democratic party.  It would be the misguided opinion of one or two people.  And as for Hispanic republicans, I have no doubt that they exist.  They have a perfect right to support who they wish to support.  That said, I would not consider them the sharpest tool in the shed in supporting a party that does not value them.  However, as I noted, IT IS THEIR CHOICE.  You, and everyone else, are free to vote for the blockheads of your choice.


----------



## JimH52

The GOP will not move on immigration.  They will continue to obstruct and it will be to their doom.  They are in a huge bind right now and their Leader in the House is more worried about his extra check than he is about his party or the country.


----------



## Geaux4it

JimH52 said:


> The GOP will not move on immigration.  They will continue to obstruct and it will be to their doom.  They are in a huge bind right now and their Leader in the House is more worried about his extra check than he is about his party or the country.



Like Obamacare, the fence is the law..

Build it

-Geaux


----------



## Claudette

JohnL.Burke said:


> I'm for a comprehensive immigration program that involves securing the border first. Of course nothing is going to happen because Obamacare is sucking out all the oxygen from other debates. Perhaps immigration reform will be discussed seriously in a couple of years but not any time soon.



I agree. 

Fix the border first. Then work on whatever else needs to be done on immigration. 

They should also ammend the article about being born in the US. We are the only country on earth that reconizes someone born in our country as a citizen. Do that and it will get rid of the anchor babies in the US and the US territories. 

That ammendment was put in to recognize the children of freed slaves as citizens. They sure didn't think ahead on that one.


----------



## ScienceRocks

Geaux4it said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The GOP will not move on immigration.  They will continue to obstruct and it will be to their doom.  They are in a huge bind right now and their Leader in the House is more worried about his extra check than he is about his party or the country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like Obamacare, the fence is the law..
> 
> Build it
> 
> -Geaux
Click to expand...


They're already here....

Why not build the fence
Fine the shit out of people that hire them
and grant the workers and college students + family amnesty?

Sounds fair....


----------



## Geaux4it

Matthew said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The GOP will not move on immigration.  They will continue to obstruct and it will be to their doom.  They are in a huge bind right now and their Leader in the House is more worried about his extra check than he is about his party or the country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like Obamacare, the fence is the law..
> 
> Build it
> 
> -Geaux
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're already here....:eusa_whistle
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's why we're full
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not build the fence
> Fine the shit out of people that hire them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and grant the workers and college students + family amnesty?
> 
> Sounds fair.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...
> 
> Nope- I disagree
> 
> -Geaux
Click to expand...


----------



## rightwinger

Zander said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have hate for lawlessness confused with ethnic hatred, Rightwinger. And your party is using language barriers with immigrants to brainwash them into prejudice against conservatives.
> 
> You're also moving the nation into an oligarchy that serves itself first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Becki, look
> 
> You read this board everyday and you can't ignore the hate coming from a certain element of your party. You can keep your head in the sand. Blame Democrats for doing the same thing.......but it is there
> Minorities read these boards, they hear what talk radio says about them. You think they don't hold it against Republicans?
> *Republicans are getting killed in the voting booth*. You can blame the liberal media and free stuff
> But until Republicans can clean up their act, they will pay a political price
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What alternate universe do you live in?   The real power for the Republicans is on the state level, and there they are dominating Democrats....Republicans control the governor's mansion in 30 of 50 states, and control both legislative chambers in 26 states.  That's punishment? Please, punish the GOP more!!
Click to expand...


Very true

The power of Republicans is at the local level. It is what allowed them to gerrymander the House to victory. They have centered on small pockets of ultraconservatives who can carry districts and not the popular vote
But alienating the minority vote is catching up to you. Republicans can no longer win the Senate and the Presidency is becoming out of reach. Those minority votes that you throw away because they won't vote for you anyway will catch up to you

It is only a matter of time


----------



## JimH52

Matthew said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The GOP will not move on immigration.  They will continue to obstruct and it will be to their doom.  They are in a huge bind right now and their Leader in the House is more worried about his extra check than he is about his party or the country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like Obamacare, the fence is the law..
> 
> Build it
> 
> -Geaux
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They're already here....
> 
> Why not build the fence
> Fine the shit out of people that hire them
> and grant the workers and college students + family amnesty?
> 
> Sounds fair....
Click to expand...


It goes much deeper than that.  The problem is, anything that legitimizes the people that are already here also hurts the GOP.  The Repubs just wish this whole immigration thing would just go away.  The long term health of the Republican Party is looking rather bleak.


----------



## Contumacious

ron4342 said:


> After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there)




Yes, indeed. The demographics have changed.

They found out that the Parasitic Faction, which votes early and often, is a powerhouse in US domestic politics.

.The Parasitic Faction Battle Hymn is :

*[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsmngHziLrs"]FEED ME SEYMOUR[/ame]*

.


----------



## rightwinger

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> 
> We play fairly, rightwinger, and you know it, too. We recollect days of the Roughriders, the Alamo, and Goliad. The forces behind LaRaza have an anti-American agenda. They area the ones who aren't playing nice. They want our property. You seem to have no problem with that. When are _you_ going to learn to play nice. hm?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you don't
> 
> There is an element of your party that is full of hate. They hate blacks, they hate gays and they hate Hispanics
> 
> Don't think for a minute that minorities don't recognize that your party tolerates the haters. They hear it on rightwing media, they hear the TeaTards, They see the legislation coming out of Republicans
> 
> Until party leaders start to deal with he haters, you will continue to draw single digits on election day
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll remember that the next time Democrats run against a black Republican and choose to refer to him as an "Uncle Tom", over a debate on the issues. What makes you think all black individuals happen to be of the Democrat persuasion? What makes you believe all Hispanics affiliate themselves with progressives? Those in glass houses should think twice about throwing stones. You can debate on the issue, but when you begin to refer to your opponent as an "Uncle Tom" based upon their race, then you have just lost your credibility to honestly and intellectually debate the issues.
Click to expand...


But.......but.........You do it too

We are talking demographics. Right now, Republicans are chasing away important demographics with their treatment of blacks, minorities, gays and young women. Regardless of what Democrats may or may not do, the poor showing that Republicans have with these demographics is starting to hurt the party

So what are you going to do Republicans?  Double down on your hate rhetoric?


----------



## Neotrotsky

They will probably just tell them the truth

They could start with this....
Really because blacks have done so well with the Democrats

Worse than apartheid: Black in Obama's American

Black South Africans under apartheid had a median net worth about 6.8% that of white South Africans. 

The average white household iin the US has a net worth of $110,729. 
Black Americans&#8217; median net worth is less than 5 percent that of white Americans.

$4,955 to be exact


h/t Kevin D. Williamson


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

ron4342 said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PrometheusBound said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the Demwits could lift a quote from Hitler that "proves" that GOPers are all Nazis. Guilt-by-Association is a game for the brain-dead. Lowering yourself to play it discredits any rational point you might try to make. But why try when you are only preaching to the choir, thrashing your opponents just to get applauded by your cult of the Living Braindead?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I provided facts that there is a communist movement within the United States, and their ideological platform is very similar to that of liberal democrats. Just as the Republicans have a "religious right" fraction within their party, so does the Democrats include those of the cpusa. You can run to your "Hitler" like propaganda if it makes you feel better, however I DID supply a solid LINK stating their position and their chosen party they are willing to stand behind. Not all Democrats are affiliated with those of communists, however to say no such party exists is to remain ignorant of the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> HORSESHIT!!!! I will waste no more time on your outlandish statement about Democrats having a communist agenda. It makes exactly as much sense as claiming the Democrats are out to promote a flat earth agenda for the US. You may claim you see solid proof but I know people who claim there is solid proof for unicorns.  That does not prove unicorns exist.
Click to expand...


I did not say all Democrats support such extreme positions, as I dont believe and will never state that the party is strictly "communist" in nature. However everyone knows the Republicans carry with them a small fraction of religious extremists that use "politics" to push THEIR agenda, so does the liberal Democrats carry their small group of supporters.

Why don't you go to the cpusa website and tell me what "specific views" they happen to support in your next post. If I am wrong, then prove it, if your so absolutely sure. The ball is in your court, as I'd rather just let supported referenced facts speak for themselves. If you'd rather just simply throw a little tantrum over the issue, I understand but it's not very informative to your side of the argument.


----------



## PrometheusBound

JakeStarkey said:


> Hopefully, Neo, that will be worked out more fairly in the future.
> 
> But an impact on less than 2% of the population will not affect elections much, particularly when several times that amount (think of Texas, in particular) are affected positively by the program.
> 
> Once again, our GOP brought this on because it sold out to Big Business when it could have offered a reform at that the state levels.




The Replutocans should only get 1% of the vote and go the way of the Federalists.   The Christians, gunowners, nationalists, and other traditionalists should form a party that has no contact with the economic royalist fringe.   That can split the 99% to take power away from the New Age Demwits' fantasyland.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

rightwinger said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you don't
> 
> There is an element of your party that is full of hate. They hate blacks, they hate gays and they hate Hispanics
> 
> Don't think for a minute that minorities don't recognize that your party tolerates the haters. They hear it on rightwing media, they hear the TeaTards, They see the legislation coming out of Republicans
> 
> Until party leaders start to deal with he haters, you will continue to draw single digits on election day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll remember that the next time Democrats run against a black Republican and choose to refer to him as an "Uncle Tom", over a debate on the issues. What makes you think all black individuals happen to be of the Democrat persuasion? What makes you believe all Hispanics affiliate themselves with progressives? Those in glass houses should think twice about throwing stones. You can debate on the issue, but when you begin to refer to your opponent as an "Uncle Tom" based upon their race, then you have just lost your credibility to honestly and intellectually debate the issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But.......but.........You do it too
> 
> We are talking demographics. Right now, Republicans are chasing away important demographics with their treatment of blacks, minorities, gays and young women. Regardless of what Democrats may or may not do, the poor showing that Republicans have with these demographics is starting to hurt the party
> 
> So what are you going to do Republicans?  Double down on your hate rhetoric?
Click to expand...


Rightwinger, why don't you provide me a link where a Republican Congressman resorted to racial slurs when debating over the path towards amnesty. I have a link below where Michael Steele was called an Uncle Tom rather than choosing to debate on the issues. Show me these racial hatred slurs that were used by Republicans towards blacks in a state or national debate. Can you back up your argument?

'Party trumps race' for Steele foes - Washington Times


----------



## PrometheusBound

ron4342 said:


> PrometheusBound said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You could be right. Hispanics who came to this country They have roots in the community.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So do weeds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hummmmm......  You wish to compare illegal Hispanics to "weeds."  It is exactly this attitude that is expressed by the racist element of the gop that drives Hispanics to vote Democrat.  .
> Oh, and one final thought:  Sage is a weed that is used to flavor a lot of dishes that are served in the US.  For example, your Thanksgiving dressing for a start.  Marijuana is a weed that helps to take away pain from people with chronic illnesses and cancer.  It is also used for the fibers it produces.  And finally, it will be a source of income for the US government when it is legalized.  There are other weeds that make our lives better.
Click to expand...


That is typical of your Diploma Dumbo language deficiencies.   You dishonestly twist my obvious meaning and re-write my post to make it look silly.  

If Mexicans are so beneficial to the US, why is the country they built such a basket case?   Also dishonest is your attempt to persuade the GOP to foolishly cater to people who are going to vote against them regardless.


----------



## Contumacious

Contumacious said:


> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, indeed. The demographics have changed.
> 
> They found out that the Parasitic Faction, which votes early and often, is a powerhouse in US domestic politics.
> 
> .The Parasitic Faction Battle Hymn is :
> 
> *[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsmngHziLrs"]FEED ME SEYMOUR[/ame]*
> 
> .
Click to expand...





.


----------



## PrometheusBound

blackhawk said:


> A lot of things could influence the 2014 election one way or the other but the two main ones will be Obamacare and the economy if the economy stays soft and sluggish and Obamacare does not deliver as promised advantage Republicans if the economy gets stronger and Obamacare is not a complete disaster advantage Democrats. Of course there could also be unknown foreign policy issues that could pop up and swing the balance as well.



What's Obomber going to do if whoever wins in Iraq annexes Kuwait again?   Being a NO LIMIT Saudi prince, he has to protect the liege lord he bows to.


----------



## PrometheusBound

Neotrotsky said:


> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with low information lefties is that when they do read they tend to read the single syllable junk they like to hear from unreliable sources like Huffington and Media Matters.
> 
> 
> 
> As opposed to the intelligent and unbiased reports from Hannity, limbaugh, and fox news.  I must confess,
> 
> 
> If the print gets any bigger
> people will begin to think you have
> a "compensating issue"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean a "phallic fail"?
Click to expand...


----------



## rightwinger

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll remember that the next time Democrats run against a black Republican and choose to refer to him as an "Uncle Tom", over a debate on the issues. What makes you think all black individuals happen to be of the Democrat persuasion? What makes you believe all Hispanics affiliate themselves with progressives? Those in glass houses should think twice about throwing stones. You can debate on the issue, but when you begin to refer to your opponent as an "Uncle Tom" based upon their race, then you have just lost your credibility to honestly and intellectually debate the issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But.......but.........You do it too
> 
> We are talking demographics. Right now, Republicans are chasing away important demographics with their treatment of blacks, minorities, gays and young women. Regardless of what Democrats may or may not do, the poor showing that Republicans have with these demographics is starting to hurt the party
> 
> So what are you going to do Republicans?  Double down on your hate rhetoric?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rightwinger, why don't you provide me a link where a Republican Congressman resorted to racial slurs when debating over the path towards amnesty. I have a link below where Michael Steele was called an Uncle Tom rather than choosing to debate on the issues. Show me these racial hatred slurs that were used by Republicans towards blacks in a state or national debate. Can you back up your argument?
> 
> 'Party trumps race' for Steele foes - Washington Times
Click to expand...


You don't have to personally use racial slurs to lose the minority vote. Do you think a Congressman is going to call someone a n*gger or ****?

The problem for Republicans is their out of control propaganda wing. Rush Limbaugh singing "Barack the Magic Negro", Glenn Beck trashing Muslims. Want to lose the Hispanic vote? Pass some English as the official language laws, push for stop and demand ID laws.

Republicans are alienating minorities in larger numbers. Want to deny it? Look at how Republicans do in the voting booth


----------



## Neotrotsky

Neotrotsky said:


> They will probably just tell them the truth
> 
> They could start with this....
> Really because blacks have done so well with the Democrats
> 
> Worse than apartheid: Black in Obama's American
> 
> Black South Africans under apartheid had a median net worth about 6.8% that of white South Africans.
> 
> The average white household iin the US has a net worth of $110,729.
> Black Americans median net worth is less than 5 percent that of white Americans.
> 
> 
> $4,955 to be exact
> 
> 
> h/t Kevin D. Williamson





I forgot they could also remind of this policy
the left promotes that has done "wonders' for them


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

rightwinger said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> But.......but.........You do it too
> 
> We are talking demographics. Right now, Republicans are chasing away important demographics with their treatment of blacks, minorities, gays and young women. Regardless of what Democrats may or may not do, the poor showing that Republicans have with these demographics is starting to hurt the party
> 
> So what are you going to do Republicans?  Double down on your hate rhetoric?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rightwinger, why don't you provide me a link where a Republican Congressman resorted to racial slurs when debating over the path towards amnesty. I have a link below where Michael Steele was called an Uncle Tom rather than choosing to debate on the issues. Show me these racial hatred slurs that were used by Republicans towards blacks in a state or national debate. Can you back up your argument?
> 
> 'Party trumps race' for Steele foes - Washington Times
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't have to personally use racial slurs to lose the minority vote. Do you think a Congressman is going to call someone a n*gger or ****?
> 
> The problem for Republicans is their out of control propaganda wing. Rush Limbaugh singing "Barack the Magic Negro", Glenn Beck trashing Muslims. Want to lose the Hispanic vote? Pass some English as the official language laws, push for stop and demand ID laws.
> 
> Republicans are alienating minorities in larger numbers. Want to deny it? Look at how Republicans do in the voting booth
Click to expand...



Your argument on passing English as the official language is weak. We have nations overseas where you have to learn their language in order to get around the country. We have all kinds of immigrants from all sorts of backgrounds that have made solid efforts to learn English. How many German, Italian. French, or Russian road signs or phone options do you find? How do you suppose a couple who only speaks Japanese, hopes to survive in this country? Why do you make strides to cite examples that sets privileges towards one particular group of individuals?

What is so wrong with maintaining a level playing field by which ALL immigrants must abide by when desiring to become American citizens. I have found no valid argument towards the special treatment of one group of immigrants over all others. To do so is a giant slap-in-the-face insult to all those Asians, Europeans, Middle Easterns, what have you.... who make great strides, through months or even YEARS of government red tape to bring their loved one into the country. *That's not being racist, that's showing a little self respect to those other immigrants* who must endure the process, to abide by Federal Immigration Laws that they hold in high regard and importance. 

Now with regard to Voter ID, I find it rather hilarious (to say the least) that a group of government regulation hungry liberals, who are all gun ho with a mandate that forces each and every citizen to comply with the purchase of insurance, all of a sudden starts to develop a "conscience" regarding Constitutional Rights with the freedom to vote. I mean you can't be serious, with all the regulations and paperwork that goes into purchasing and registering a firearm, that you are willing to hold a straight face regarding filling out a small form to establish and secure your identity when it comes to voting. You are pathetic in your excuses Rightwinger, to say the least.


----------



## rightwinger

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rightwinger, why don't you provide me a link where a Republican Congressman resorted to racial slurs when debating over the path towards amnesty. I have a link below where Michael Steele was called an Uncle Tom rather than choosing to debate on the issues. Show me these racial hatred slurs that were used by Republicans towards blacks in a state or national debate. Can you back up your argument?
> 
> 'Party trumps race' for Steele foes - Washington Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't have to personally use racial slurs to lose the minority vote. Do you think a Congressman is going to call someone a n*gger or ****?
> 
> The problem for Republicans is their out of control propaganda wing. Rush Limbaugh singing "Barack the Magic Negro", Glenn Beck trashing Muslims. Want to lose the Hispanic vote? Pass some English as the official language laws, push for stop and demand ID laws.
> 
> Republicans are alienating minorities in larger numbers. Want to deny it? Look at how Republicans do in the voting booth
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Your argument on passing English as the official language is weak. We have nations overseas where you have to learn their language in order to get around the country. We have all kinds of immigrants from all sorts of backgrounds that have made solid efforts to learn English. How many German, Italian. French, or Russian road signs or phone options do you find? How do you suppose a couple who only speaks Japanese, hopes to survive in this country? Why do you make strides to cite examples that sets privileges towards one particular group of individuals.
> 
> What is so wrong with maintaining a level playing field by which ALL immigrants must abide by when desiring to become American citizens. I have found no valid argument towards the special treatment of one group of immigrants over all others. To do so is a giant slap-in-the-face insult to all those Asians, Europeans, Middle Easterns, what have you.... who make great strides, through months or even YEARS of government red tape to bring their loved one into the country. *That's not being racist, that's showing a little self respect to those other immigrants* who must endure the process, to abide by Federal Immigration Laws that they hold in high regard and importance.
> 
> Now with regard to Voter ID, I find it rather hilarious (to say the least) that a group of government regulation hungry liberals, who are all gun ho with a mandate that forces each and every citizen to comply with the purchase of insurance, all of a sudden starts to develop a "conscience" regarding Constitutional Rights with the freedom to vote. I mean you can't be serious, with all the regulations and paperwork that goes into purchasing and registering a firearm, that you are willing to hold a straight face regarding filling out a small form to establish and secure your identity when it comes to voting. You are pathetic in your excuses Rightwinger, to say the least.
Click to expand...


I have no problem with voter ID as long as you make sure every citizen is provided with a free Government ID


----------



## JakeStarkey

shakles is justifying the unjustifiable: demanding the growing more important group of women, immigrants, and other minorities adopt the reactionary white TeaP "vision" of what America was.

Not going to happen.


----------



## Neotrotsky

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rightwinger, why don't you provide me a link where a Republican Congressman resorted to racial slurs when debating over the path towards amnesty. I have a link below where Michael Steele was called an Uncle Tom rather than choosing to debate on the issues. Show me these racial hatred slurs that were used by Republicans towards blacks in a state or national debate. Can you back up your argument?
> 
> 'Party trumps race' for Steele foes - Washington Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't have to personally use racial slurs to lose the minority vote. Do you think a Congressman is going to call someone a n*gger or ****?
> 
> The problem for Republicans is their out of control propaganda wing. Rush Limbaugh singing "Barack the Magic Negro", Glenn Beck trashing Muslims. Want to lose the Hispanic vote? Pass some English as the official language laws, push for stop and demand ID laws.
> 
> Republicans are alienating minorities in larger numbers. Want to deny it? Look at how Republicans do in the voting booth
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Your argument on passing English as the official language is weak. We have nations overseas where you have to learn their language in order to get around the country. We have all kinds of immigrants from all sorts of backgrounds that have made solid efforts to learn English. How many German, Italian. French, or Russian road signs or phone options do you find? How do you suppose a couple who only speaks Japanese, hopes to survive in this country? Why do you make strides to cite examples that sets privileges towards one particular group of individuals?
> 
> What is so wrong with maintaining a level playing field by which ALL immigrants must abide by when desiring to become American citizens. I have found no valid argument towards the special treatment of one group of immigrants over all others. To do so is a giant slap-in-the-face insult to all those Asians, Europeans, Middle Easterns, what have you.... who make great strides, through months or even YEARS of government red tape to bring their loved one into the country. *That's not being racist, that's showing a little self respect to those other immigrants* who must endure the process, to abide by Federal Immigration Laws that they hold in high regard and importance.
> 
> Now with regard to Voter ID, I find it rather hilarious (to say the least) that a group of government regulation hungry liberals, who are all gun ho with a mandate that forces each and every citizen to comply with the purchase of insurance, all of a sudden starts to develop a "conscience" regarding Constitutional Rights with the freedom to vote. I mean you can't be serious, with all the regulations and paperwork that goes into purchasing and registering a firearm, that you are willing to hold a straight face regarding filling out a small form to establish and secure your identity when it comes to voting. You are pathetic in your excuses Rightwinger, to say the least.
Click to expand...


Really,
Majority Of Americans Want Immigrants To Learn English, Poll Says

_A recent poll by Gallup asked Americans how important it is that immigrants learn to speak English, a whopping 72 percent said it was &#8220;essential."_​
Once again we see the how far left and to the extreme the Democratic Party has become since they helped to force out most of the Blue Dog democrats.

Only the most extreme leftists and Papa Obama apologists do not support 
this issue


----------



## Claudette

If you are in this country you should speak English. English is the language of America. 

Hell. Go to Miami. In order to be an EMS worker or a police officer you have to know Spanish. 

If you don't want to learn the language then go the hell back to wherever you came from. 

I would fully expect myself to learn the language if I were to move to another country.


----------



## Jarod

Claudette said:


> If you are in this country you should speak English. English is the language of America.
> 
> Hell. Go to Miami. In order to be an EMS worker or a police officer you have to know Spanish.
> 
> If you don't want to learn the language then go the hell back to wherever you came from.
> 
> I would fully expect myself to learn the language if I were to move to another country.



They have been speaking Spanish in Miami much longer than they have been speaking English.  Maybe if you want to live in Miami you should learn Spanish.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Claudette said:


> If you are in this country you should speak English. English is the language of America.
> 
> Hell. Go to Miami. In order to be an EMS worker or a police officer you have to know Spanish.
> 
> If you don't want to learn the language then go the hell back to wherever you came from.
> 
> I would fully expect myself to learn the language if I were to move to another country.


The majority of Americans support that position

Only the most reactionary and extreme leftists/ papa obama apologists
do not


----------



## Jarod

So, if your family has been speaking Spanish in Miami since before it was a part of the United States, and plenty of them have, they should be forced to speak English, to accommodate a nation that acquired the land they live on?


----------



## HomeInspect

The Pubs will probably lose big mostly due to the fact that there are people dependent on government than ever before, and the Dems will keep them at the trough.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Sad how far left the Democratic party has gone

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8TjbbpVLh4]Forward- The Obama Way - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## rightwinger

Claudette said:


> If you are in this country you should speak English. English is the language of America.
> 
> Hell. Go to Miami. In order to be an EMS worker or a police officer you have to know Spanish.
> 
> If you don't want to learn the language then go the hell back to wherever you came from.
> 
> I would fully expect myself to learn the language if I were to move to another country.



So police and EMS should not understand the language of the people they serve?

If a community speaks mostly Spanish and they pay taxes for police and EMS services. You don't think they should speak the language of the people who are paying their salaries?


----------



## rightwinger

Neotrotsky said:


> Sad how far left the Democratic party has gone
> 
> Forward- The Obama Way - YouTube



It continues to amaze me how Conservatives continue to turn JFKs call for public service into a declaration that government should not help people


----------



## Claudette

Nope. The people they serve should speak English. These folks all went to school in America so they should know English. Its not like all of Miami suddenly came from another country. 

English is the language here in America. Not Spanish, Japanese, German or any other language. English.


----------



## rightwinger

Claudette said:


> Nope. The people they serve should speak English. These folks all went to school in America so they should know English. Its not like all of Miami suddenly came from another country.
> 
> English is the language here in America. Not Spanish, Japanese, German or any other language. English.



I have never met a second generation American who does not speak English

In a free country, people are allowed to speak any language they wish. If a community has a large population that speaks Spanish or Korean or Chinese, I see no reason why emergency workers in that area should not be required to speak two languages


----------



## Claudette

You mean you have no problem with anyone not speaking Spanish or whatever the other language is, not getting the job.

Even if they are qualified and superior at the job and lose the job because they don't speak that lingo?


Oh and you also have no problem with that first generation who have been in this country for decades not speaking English. 

Gottcha.


----------



## JakeStarkey

We see the far right refusing to realize they are in the growing minority and steadily losing power.

Yup, keep insulting and denying the Americanism of the 80% of its citizens that don't agree with you.


----------



## rightwinger

Claudette said:


> You mean you have no problem with anyone not speaking Spanish or whatever the other language is, not getting the job.
> 
> Even if they are qualified and superior at the job and lose the job because they don't speak that lingo?
> 
> 
> Oh and you also have no problem with that first generation who have been in this country for decades not speaking English.
> 
> Gottcha.



I have a problem with job requirements that do not reflect the job you are expected to do

If you are an emergency worker who works in an area with a large percentage of the population speaking another language, I see no reason why your ability to speak that language should not be a requirement for the job. People could die as a result
If a job comes down to two people.......one of which can speak two languages and the other who can't. I see no reason why the bilingual worker should not be hired


----------



## Claudette

So you have no problem with folks who have lived in this country for decades not speaking English and expecting everyone else to speak their language. 


Again Got it


----------



## rightwinger

Claudette said:


> So you have no problem with folks who have lived in this country for decades not speaking English and expecting everyone else to speak their language.
> 
> 
> Again Got it



No I don't. Especially since Americans are notorious for refusing to speak other languages. Americans abroad want to speak English...most of the world accomodates us

If your job is to save peoples lives and being able to speak their language helps to save a life. I have no problem with that being a requirement for the job


----------



## boilermaker55

What is your thought on the reason why the border(s) have not be closed after all this time?





Meister said:


> In regards to immigration....is it too much to ask to close the border first, before going any further?  I mean, it was supposed to be closed after the Reagan amnesty.....right????
> I think that's the biggest hang up with immigration.
> 
> It's hard to deal with a party who's intent is to redistribute wealth in this country.....the takers will always vote for that.  Hopefully there will be enough democrats who are beginning to feel the pinch of the redistribution of wealth regarding Obamacare.  People tend to be lax regarding politics until it hits home with them, then they catch on quickly.


----------



## Claudette

rightwinger said:


> Claudette said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you have no problem with folks who have lived in this country for decades not speaking English and expecting everyone else to speak their language.
> 
> 
> Again Got it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I don't. Especially since Americans are notorious for refusing to speak other languages. Americans abroad want to speak English...most of the world accomodates us
> 
> If your job is to save peoples lives and being able to speak their language helps to save a life. I have no problem with that being a requirement for the job
Click to expand...


We aren't speaking of Americans in other countries. 

We're talking about immigrants in this country. 

Sure it would be nice if the EMT or Police officer spoke the lingo but it shouldn't be a requirement that they do. The requirment should be that those living in our country speak OUR language.


----------



## Gadawg73

ron4342 said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you don't
> 
> There is an element of your party that is full of hate. They hate blacks, they hate gays and they hate Hispanics
> 
> Don't think for a minute that minorities don't recognize that your party tolerates the haters. They hear it on rightwing media, they hear the TeaTards, They see the legislation coming out of Republicans
> 
> Until party leaders start to deal with he haters, you will continue to draw single digits on election day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, just keep repeating the lie, Hitler would be proud of your propaganda skills. How about giving us some names of people in a position to make policy instead of generalizations, or is this the best ya got.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the "best ya got" is pulling out your Hitler comparison.  Beside being totally untrue it is just another lie the right like to throw around.
> "If you don't agree with us you are just like Hitler."
> Please, try to think like an adult rather than a third grade name caller.
Click to expand...


The left has been comparing the right to Hitler forever and first coined it.


----------



## Neotrotsky

rightwinger said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sad how far left the Democratic party has gone
> 
> Forward- The Obama Way - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It continues to amaze me how Conservatives continue to turn JFKs call for public service into a declaration that government should not help people
Click to expand...


Sure
the extreme left can not understand how his tax cuts grew the economy 

that really is the more amazing thing


----------



## Neotrotsky

Claudette said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Claudette said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you have no problem with folks who have lived in this country for decades not speaking English and expecting everyone else to speak their language.
> 
> 
> Again Got it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I don't. Especially since Americans are notorious for refusing to speak other languages. Americans abroad want to speak English...most of the world accomodates us
> 
> If your job is to save peoples lives and being able to speak their language helps to save a life. I have no problem with that being a requirement for the job
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We aren't speaking of Americans in other countries.
> 
> We're talking about immigrants in this country.
> 
> Sure it would be nice if the EMT or Police officer spoke the lingo but it shouldn't be a requirement that they do. The requirment should be that those living in our country speak OUR language.
Click to expand...



The reactionary left and Obama apologists are going against the majority position (72%) on this issue. 

Well, no surprise, that is how reactionary the Democratic party has become


----------



## rightwinger

Neotrotsky said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sad how far left the Democratic party has gone
> 
> Forward- The Obama Way - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It continues to amaze me how Conservatives continue to turn JFKs call for public service into a declaration that government should not help people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure
> the extreme left can not understand how his tax cuts grew the economy
> 
> that really is the more amazing thing
Click to expand...


If thats the case.......I am willing to go back to the tax rates we had under JFK

Are you?


----------



## Neotrotsky

Military budget and Social spending too

Because the US has spent since 1965
16 trillion on social programs
and we have the same level of poverty


----------



## Meister

rightwinger said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It continues to amaze me how Conservatives continue to turn JFKs call for public service into a declaration that government should not help people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure
> the extreme left can not understand how his tax cuts grew the economy
> 
> that really is the more amazing thing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If thats the case.......I am willing to go back to the tax rates we had under JFK
> 
> Are you?
Click to expand...


Talking about the tax rate....period.  Or, are you talking about the tax rates plus the tax exemptions under JFK?


----------



## Gadawg73

rightwinger said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It continues to amaze me how Conservatives continue to turn JFKs call for public service into a declaration that government should not help people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure
> the extreme left can not understand how his tax cuts grew the economy
> 
> that really is the more amazing thing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If thats the case.......I am willing to go back to the tax rates we had under JFK
> 
> Are you?
Click to expand...


Apples and oranges. We were not in a world economy for most all of our manufactured products in the early 60s and wealth stayed here.
Not the same now as we are in a world economy for almost everything.
Tax at that rate now and they leave tomorrow.


----------



## Neotrotsky




----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

rightwinger said:


> Claudette said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you are in this country you should speak English. English is the language of America.
> 
> Hell. Go to Miami. In order to be an EMS worker or a police officer you have to know Spanish.
> 
> If you don't want to learn the language then go the hell back to wherever you came from.
> 
> I would fully expect myself to learn the language if I were to move to another country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So police and EMS should not understand the language of the people they serve?
> 
> If a community speaks mostly Spanish and they pay taxes for police and EMS services. You don't think they should speak the language of the people who are paying their salaries?
Click to expand...


We have Italian and Chinese immigrants in this country as well, I don't see emergency services having to accommodate to them. Do you think the citizens of France accommodate those foreign immigrants who move into their country? What's so difficult in learning the language and customs of the country you desire to live in?


----------



## Neotrotsky

*One more reason why republicans will lose big in 2014*

it won't be this one


----------



## JakeStarkey

Are you spamming various threads, NeoBuddy?  Suggest you stop.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Gadawg73 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure
> the extreme left can not understand how his tax cuts grew the economy
> 
> that really is the more amazing thing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If thats the case.......I am willing to go back to the tax rates we had under JFK
> 
> Are you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apples and oranges. We were not in a world economy for most all of our manufactured products in the early 60s and wealth stayed here.
> Not the same now as we are in a world economy for almost everything.
> Tax at that rate now and they leave tomorrow.
Click to expand...



Very true
the progressives and other Papa Obama apologists economic polices are 'regressive'.

After WW II, the US had a lot economic strength and lack of world competition
made it easier for our economy to take on their programs and tolerate failed social programs.

Rising water lifts all boats,  kind of thing

But now,  they still think big gov't, big unions are going to save the day


----------



## Unkotare

Jarod said:


> So, if your family has been speaking Spanish in Miami since before it was a part of the United States, and plenty of them have, they should be forced to speak English, to accommodate a nation that acquired the land they live on?






What do you mean by "forced to speak English"?


----------



## Claudette

If they go to school in this country, they speak English. 

They are in this country. You speak the language of the country your in. If you speak the language of the country you left and English then good for you. Your a smarty. 

Not to smart to live in a country and not speak the language of that country and its pretty arrogant of you to expect others to speak your language.


----------



## rightwinger

Claudette said:


> If they go to school in this country, they speak English.
> 
> They are in this country. You speak the language of the country your in. If you speak the language of the country you left and English then good for you. Your a smarty.
> 
> Not to smart to live in a country and not speak the language of that country and its pretty arrogant of you to expect others to speak your language.



Whenever I go to another country, I expect them to speak English


----------



## Neotrotsky

Like Canada


----------



## Gadawg73

Until many Republicans quit treating gays like second class citizens, quit claiming scientists are Marxists and abandon their support for government control of abortion expect another ass kicking the next election.
This ain't rocket science.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

rightwinger said:


> Claudette said:
> 
> 
> 
> If they go to school in this country, they speak English.
> 
> They are in this country. You speak the language of the country your in. If you speak the language of the country you left and English then good for you. Your a smarty.
> 
> Not to smart to live in a country and not speak the language of that country and its pretty arrogant of you to expect others to speak your language.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whenever I go to another country, I expect them to speak English
Click to expand...


Whenever "I" go ... "I" expect. Spoken like a self centered individual who has no respect for the people nor the culture of that foreign country they choose to reside in.


----------



## Claudette

rightwinger said:


> Claudette said:
> 
> 
> 
> If they go to school in this country, they speak English.
> 
> They are in this country. You speak the language of the country your in. If you speak the language of the country you left and English then good for you. Your a smarty.
> 
> Not to smart to live in a country and not speak the language of that country and its pretty arrogant of you to expect others to speak your language.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whenever I go to another country, I expect them to speak English
Click to expand...


Of course you do and I'll be your surprised when they don't.


----------



## Unkotare

Claudette said:


> If they go to school in this country, they speak English.
> 
> They are in this country. You speak the language of the country your [sic] in. If you speak the language of the country you left and English then good for you. Your [sic] a smarty.
> 
> Not to[sic] smart to live in a country and not speak the language of that country and its [sic] pretty arrogant of you to expect others to speak your language.




And when do you plan on learning English?


----------



## rightwinger

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Claudette said:
> 
> 
> 
> If they go to school in this country, they speak English.
> 
> They are in this country. You speak the language of the country your in. If you speak the language of the country you left and English then good for you. Your a smarty.
> 
> Not to smart to live in a country and not speak the language of that country and its pretty arrogant of you to expect others to speak your language.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whenever I go to another country, I expect them to speak English
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whenever "I" go ... "I" expect. Spoken like a self centered individual who has no respect for the people nor the culture of that foreign country they choose to reside in.
Click to expand...


Like a true American, I expect citizens in other countries to speak English when I get there.  Canada, Mexico, Europe, Central America.....you better speak English or I take my business elsewhere


----------



## Neotrotsky

ron4342 said:


> After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there) and that if the republicans wanted to remain relevant they needed to change also. The recommendation was that the republican party needs to actively work toward bringing Hispanics into the party.
> They have a perfect chance to do that now but I fully expect that the republican party will once again shoot themselves in the foot. What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do. This places the republicans in a bind. Should they strongly support a sweeping immigration plan (similar to what Obama is offering) OR should they dig in their heels and refuse to accept any plan Obama offers just as they have done throughout the last five years.
> I am betting that the republicans will dig in their heels and refuse to offer a plan similar to Obama's. In other words, they will once again play the obstruction card and in the process slap the people who could help them win elections in the face. And then, after losing the Hispanic vote by a wide margin in 2014, they will once again scratch their heads and ask "Why did we lose? I don't understand."



speaking of putting Republicans in a bind


----------



## RoadVirus

Neotrotsky said:


> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there) and that if the republicans wanted to remain relevant they needed to change also. The recommendation was that the republican party needs to actively work toward bringing Hispanics into the party.
> They have a perfect chance to do that now but I fully expect that the republican party will once again shoot themselves in the foot. What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do. This places the republicans in a bind. Should they strongly support a sweeping immigration plan (similar to what Obama is offering) OR should they dig in their heels and refuse to accept any plan Obama offers just as they have done throughout the last five years.
> I am betting that the republicans will dig in their heels and refuse to offer a plan similar to Obama's. In other words, they will once again play the obstruction card and in the process slap the people who could help them win elections in the face. And then, after losing the Hispanic vote by a wide margin in 2014, they will once again scratch their heads and ask "Why did we lose? I don't understand."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> speaking of putting Republicans in a bind
Click to expand...


Okay...that is just disturbing.


----------



## Neotrotsky

RoadVirus said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there) and that if the republicans wanted to remain relevant they needed to change also. The recommendation was that the republican party needs to actively work toward bringing Hispanics into the party.
> They have a perfect chance to do that now but I fully expect that the republican party will once again shoot themselves in the foot. What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do. This places the republicans in a bind. Should they strongly support a sweeping immigration plan (similar to what Obama is offering) OR should they dig in their heels and refuse to accept any plan Obama offers just as they have done throughout the last five years.
> I am betting that the republicans will dig in their heels and refuse to offer a plan similar to Obama's. In other words, they will once again play the obstruction card and in the process slap the people who could help them win elections in the face. And then, after losing the Hispanic vote by a wide margin in 2014, they will once again scratch their heads and ask "Why did we lose? I don't understand."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> speaking of putting Republicans in a bind
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay...that is just disturbing.
Click to expand...





just wait till we get the bill


----------



## ScienceRocks

Gadawg73 said:


> Until many Republicans quit treating gays like second class citizens, quit claiming scientists are Marxists and abandon their support for government control of abortion expect another ass kicking the next election.
> This ain't rocket science.



Very true...

America would be better off if we started nation building within our own country. They wouldn't want to go back to the 18th century as reality sucks far more then words.


----------



## Gadawg73

Matthew said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Until many Republicans quit treating gays like second class citizens, quit claiming scientists are Marxists and abandon their support for government control of abortion expect another ass kicking the next election.
> This ain't rocket science.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very true...
> 
> America would be better off if we started nation building within our own country. They wouldn't want to go back to the 18th century as reality sucks far more then words.
Click to expand...


As someone that is an independent and votes Republican most of the time I am more concerned about FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY than who marries who.
GOP with a big tent platform would win again.
Tired of losing, born to win. 
Plus anyone that puts gay marriage as a priority issue is a dumb ass.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

rightwinger said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whenever I go to another country, I expect them to speak English
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whenever "I" go ... "I" expect. Spoken like a self centered individual who has no respect for the people nor the culture of that foreign country they choose to reside in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like a true American, I expect citizens in other countries to speak English when I get there.  Canada, Mexico, Europe, Central America.....you better speak English or I take my business elsewhere
Click to expand...


From someone who has actually had the first hand experience of traveling outside the "sheltered" convenient comforts of the United States, to stay overseas in Italy. I can tell you first hand it's not always so. You need to have a  basic understanding of the language as well as their culture to get around the country. Some individuals aren't as lazy as yourself to pick up another language and seek out those areas outside the "tourist" Americanized familiar comforts of your own country, rather they hold a desire to "learn" something in submerging yourself within another nation's local culture right where they live. You want to impress the business clients in Japan? Learn Japanese, and show your clients you care enough to understand their way of life, with a desire to understand more than your own needs. Taking that simple step is demonstrating a desire to understand, learn, and meet them right where they are at. A business consultant willing to take the time to learn another nation's way of life and language, will always be shown with greater respect and admiration over the other consultant who simply doesn't care to make the effort.


----------



## rightwinger

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whenever "I" go ... "I" expect. Spoken like a self centered individual who has no respect for the people nor the culture of that foreign country they choose to reside in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like a true American, I expect citizens in other countries to speak English when I get there.  Canada, Mexico, Europe, Central America.....you better speak English or I take my business elsewhere
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From someone who has actually had the first hand experience of traveling outside the "sheltered" convenient comforts of the United States, to stay overseas in Italy. I can tell you first hand it's not always so. You need to have a  basic understanding of the language as well as their culture to get around the country. Some individuals aren't as lazy as yourself to pick up another language and seek out those areas outside the "tourist" Americanized comforts of the country, with the desire to "learn" something as you submerge yourself within another nation's local culture right where they live. You want to impress the business clients in Japan? Learn Japanese, and show your clients you care enough to understand their way of life, with a desire to understand more than your own needs. Taking that simple step is demonstrating a desire to understand, learn, and meet them right where they are at. A business consultant willing to take the time to learn another nation's way of life and language, will always be shown with greater respect and admiration over the other consultant who simply doesn't care to make the effort.
Click to expand...


I've been to Italy

I had no problem finding people who speak english


----------



## Spoonman

rightwinger said:


> Claudette said:
> 
> 
> 
> If they go to school in this country, they speak English.
> 
> They are in this country. You speak the language of the country your in. If you speak the language of the country you left and English then good for you. Your a smarty.
> 
> Not to smart to live in a country and not speak the language of that country and its pretty arrogant of you to expect others to speak your language.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whenever I go to another country, I expect them to speak English
Click to expand...


of course.  you are an entitled liberal.  what else would you expect.


----------



## Spoonman

Gadawg73 said:


> Until many Republicans quit treating gays like second class citizens, quit claiming scientists are Marxists and abandon their support for government control of abortion expect another ass kicking the next election.
> This ain't rocket science.



yet the most liberal state in the country, california, has the distinction of voting down gay marriage when put to a public vote.  interesting.   seems to me liberals are more supportive only in their public words but act differently when the decision is private.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Do you have sources that indicate CA would not vote that way again?

If we wish the GOP to win nationally again and take control of the government, we have to reach out to women, minorities, and immigrants.

Our far right by itself, even with the neo-cons and the corporatists, can no longer gain a majority, because the groups above outnumber them.


----------



## rightwinger

Republicans are getting killed on gay rights

Just let it go already. The open and voiceferous opposition to all things gay labels them as out of touch, shallow and just plain mean


----------



## Spoonman

rightwinger said:


> Republicans are getting killed on gay rights
> 
> Just let it go already. The open and voiceferous opposition to all things gay labels them as out of touch, shallow and just plain mean



democrats are getting killed on jobs, the economy, spying, gun control, foriegn policy and now even their golden fleece, obamacare


----------



## Spoonman

JakeStarkey said:


> Do you have sources that indicate CA would not vote that way again?
> 
> If we wish the GOP to win nationally again and take control of the government, we have to reach out to women, minorities, and immigrants.
> 
> Our far right by itself, even with the neo-cons and the corporatists, can no longer gain a majority, because the groups above outnumber them.



i've never seen any reason to indicate they would not vote that way again.   fact is, an extremely liberal state with a vast majority of liberal voters, voted down gay marriage.  

as far a the label of conservatives being war hawks and corporate dupes, the democrats, especially in this administration have shown they hold that title as well.   the democrats have bigger issues to worry about.  the economy, jobs, spying, 2nd amendment  rights, foriegn policy, even now, obamacare.


----------



## Neotrotsky

RoadVirus said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there) and that if the republicans wanted to remain relevant they needed to change also. The recommendation was that the republican party needs to actively work toward bringing Hispanics into the party.
> They have a perfect chance to do that now but I fully expect that the republican party will once again shoot themselves in the foot. What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do. This places the republicans in a bind. Should they strongly support a sweeping immigration plan (similar to what Obama is offering) OR should they dig in their heels and refuse to accept any plan Obama offers just as they have done throughout the last five years.
> I am betting that the republicans will dig in their heels and refuse to offer a plan similar to Obama's. In other words, they will once again play the obstruction card and in the process slap the people who could help them win elections in the face. And then, after losing the Hispanic vote by a wide margin in 2014, they will once again scratch their heads and ask "Why did we lose? I don't understand."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> speaking of putting Republicans in a bind
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay...that is just disturbing.
Click to expand...


Indeed

The failures of the left's programs, always are disturbing.


----------



## Gadawg73

Spoonman said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Until many Republicans quit treating gays like second class citizens, quit claiming scientists are Marxists and abandon their support for government control of abortion expect another ass kicking the next election.
> This ain't rocket science.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yet the most liberal state in the country, california, has the distinction of voting down gay marriage when put to a public vote.  interesting.   seems to me liberals are more supportive only in their public words but act differently when the decision is private.
Click to expand...


Are you claiming liberals oppose gay marriage and it was liberals that voted it down in California?


----------



## Gadawg73

Most all Republicans I know do not give a shit about gay marriage.
Weird as shit but it does not affect me whatsoever if 2 people that love and are committed to each other that are in a LEGAL relationship want to get married and experience that joy like the rest of us straight folk that have such a great track record in marriage failing 55% of the time.


----------



## Spoonman

Gadawg73 said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Until many Republicans quit treating gays like second class citizens, quit claiming scientists are Marxists and abandon their support for government control of abortion expect another ass kicking the next election.
> This ain't rocket science.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yet the most liberal state in the country, california, has the distinction of voting down gay marriage when put to a public vote.  interesting.   seems to me liberals are more supportive only in their public words but act differently when the decision is private.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you claiming liberals oppose gay marriage and it was liberals that voted it down in California?
Click to expand...


they sure didn't get out there and vote for them.   look at how heavily california has voted democrat in past elections. the percent tops any state.  fact is, california has a strong majority of liberal voters.   fact is californians vote down gay marriage.


----------



## rightwinger

Spoonman said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> yet the most liberal state in the country, california, has the distinction of voting down gay marriage when put to a public vote.  interesting.   seems to me liberals are more supportive only in their public words but act differently when the decision is private.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you claiming liberals oppose gay marriage and it was liberals that voted it down in California?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> they sure didn't get out there and vote for them.   look at how heavily california has voted democrat in past elections. the percent tops any state.  fact is, california has a strong majority of liberal voters.   fact is californians vote down gay marriage.
Click to expand...


Fact is.....Gay marriage is legal in California


----------



## Spoonman

rightwinger said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you claiming liberals oppose gay marriage and it was liberals that voted it down in California?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they sure didn't get out there and vote for them.   look at how heavily california has voted democrat in past elections. the percent tops any state.  fact is, california has a strong majority of liberal voters.   fact is californians vote down gay marriage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fact is.....Gay marriage is legal in California
Click to expand...


not if the voters had a say


----------



## 007

Zander said:


> Immigration reform is DOA until after the 2014 mid-terms at the earliest. Democrats might try to revive the isssue, but they'll get nowhere.
> 
> 2014 will have 2 issues of concern:
> 
> 1) The debt ceiling / budget deficit
> 2) the train wreck known as Obamacare.
> 
> If the GOP is smart they'll take some small concessions on spending in exchange for raising the debt limit and move on.
> 
> Then focus on the 900 lb gorilla in the room- Obamacare.  Obamacare is a yoke around the neck of every Democrat in the country. They passed it, they OWN it- Lock, stock, and Barrel!
> 
> The website problems are just the beginning.......



The only way the morons left still supporting the buffoon liar in the black house can make themselves feel better, is to lie to themselves, play make believe and give each other reach around's. Problem is they're out there in la-la land...


----------



## JakeStarkey

And the birfer anti-Kenyan crap continues.


----------



## rightwinger

Spoonman said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> they sure didn't get out there and vote for them.   look at how heavily california has voted democrat in past elections. the percent tops any state.  fact is, california has a strong majority of liberal voters.   fact is californians vote down gay marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fact is.....Gay marriage is legal in California
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> not if the voters had a say
Click to expand...


State voters didn't have a vote on Civil Rights either

How did that one work out?


----------



## 007

rightwinger said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fact is.....Gay marriage is legal in California
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not if the voters had a say
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> State voters didn't have a vote on Civil Rights either
> 
> How did that one work out?
Click to expand...


What do civil rights have to do with homos that want to bastardize marriage?

Oh... wait... you just want to change the subject and hijack the thread with some leftard bull shit... got it.


----------



## Mertex

Gadawg73 said:


> Most all Republicans I know do not give a shit about gay marriage.



You're not talking about Tpublicans, though.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

Gadawg73 said:


> Most all Republicans I know do not give a shit about gay marriage.
> Weird as shit but it does not affect me whatsoever if 2 people that love and are committed to each other that are in a LEGAL relationship want to get married and experience that joy like the rest of us straight folk that have such a great track record in marriage failing 55% of the time.



Then those Republicans need to speak up and take their party back.


----------



## Zander

Mertex said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most all Republicans I know do not give a shit about gay marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're not talking about Tpublicans, though.
Click to expand...


Huh? You're getting your right wing boogymen confused! 

The TEA in tea party stands for TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY.  That is their focus- taxation and fiscal responsibility. The Tea Party has nothing to do with social issues.


----------



## rightwinger

007 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> not if the voters had a say
> 
> 
> 
> 
> State voters didn't have a vote on Civil Rights either
> 
> How did that one work out?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do civil rights have to do with homos that want to bastardize marriage?
> 
> Oh... wait... you just want to change the subject and hijack the thread with some leftard bull shit... got it.
Click to expand...


Those people who have been married and divorced have bastardized marriage

Yet they are not denied the right to marry based on an arbitrary criteria


----------



## rightwinger

Zander said:


> Mertex said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most all Republicans I know do not give a shit about gay marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're not talking about Tpublicans, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Huh? You're getting your right wing boogymen confused!
> 
> The TEA in tea party stands for TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY.  That is their focus- taxation and fiscal responsibility. The Tea Party has nothing to do with social issues.
Click to expand...


----------



## Spoonman

Mertex said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most all Republicans I know do not give a shit about gay marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're not talking about Tpublicans, though.
Click to expand...


I wasn't aware the tea party had taken a stance on gay rights


----------



## Mertex

Zander said:


> Mertex said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most all Republicans I know do not give a shit about gay marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're not talking about Tpublicans, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Huh? You're getting your right wing boogymen confused!
> 
> The TEA in tea party stands for TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY.  That is their focus- taxation and fiscal responsibility. The Tea Party has nothing to do with social issues.
Click to expand...


It may stand for "taxed enough already" for you, but the majority of Tea Partiers abhor same-sex marriage, so, you can't hide under the  "taxed enough already" mantra anymore.

8. They Oppose Same-Sex Marriage. Here too, there seems to be a blending of the libertarian and evangelical right, as *69 percent of Republicans who identified with the Tea Party opposed same-sex marriage,* compared to 54 percent of non-Tea Party Republicans.
10 reasons the Tea Party is wildly unpopular - Salon.com


----------



## Mertex

Spoonman said:


> Mertex said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most all Republicans I know do not give a shit about gay marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're not talking about Tpublicans, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *I wasn't aware* the tea party had taken a stance on gay rights
Click to expand...


You may not be aware of it, that doesn't mean it ain't happening!  


 Late Sunday evening, *TheTeaParty.net, arguably the largest Tea Party organization,* appeared to urge a boycott of Starbucks over same-sex marriage.

The non-profit organizations Facebook page, which boasts over 1.6 million Likes, posted the following link to Dump Starbucks:"]Conservatives Boycott Starbucks Over Coffee Chains Support Of Same-Sex Marriage
Conservatives Boycott Starbucks Over Coffee Chain?s Support Of Same-Sex Marriage | Mediaite


----------



## Spoonman

Mertex said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mertex said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're not talking about Tpublicans, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I wasn't aware* the tea party had taken a stance on gay rights
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You may not be aware of it, that doesn't mean it ain't happening!
> 
> 
> Late Sunday evening, *TheTeaParty.net, arguably the largest Tea Party organization,* appeared to urge a boycott of Starbucks over same-sex marriage.
> 
> The non-profit organizations Facebook page, which boasts over 1.6 million Likes, posted the following link to Dump Starbucks:"]Conservatives Boycott Starbucks Over Coffee Chains Support Of Same-Sex Marriage
> Conservatives Boycott Starbucks Over Coffee Chain?s Support Of Same-Sex Marriage | Mediaite
Click to expand...


you are kidding me right? now do you want to tell me which tea party members of congress are members of this organization, support this organization, make donations to this organization, attend their fund raisers, attend their ralleys.     it's kind of like saying a left wing lunatic group like moveon.org is the democratic party.


----------



## Zander

Mertex said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mertex said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're not talking about Tpublicans, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I wasn't aware* the tea party had taken a stance on gay rights
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You may not be aware of it, that doesn't mean it ain't happening!
> 
> 
> Late Sunday evening, *TheTeaParty.net, arguably the largest Tea Party organization,* appeared to urge a boycott of Starbucks over same-sex marriage.
> 
> The non-profit organizations Facebook page, which boasts over 1.6 million Likes, posted the following link to Dump Starbucks:"]Conservatives Boycott Starbucks Over Coffee Chains Support Of Same-Sex Marriage
> Conservatives Boycott Starbucks Over Coffee Chain?s Support Of Same-Sex Marriage | Mediaite
Click to expand...



Sorry, but there really is no official "tea party" It's a grassroots movement. Like OWS, only with people that bathe regularly, have jobs, and do not live in tents.


----------



## Neotrotsky

True
don't forget, clean up after themselves
peaceful protests


----------



## Unkotare

Zander said:


> Mertex said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I wasn't aware* the tea party had taken a stance on gay rights
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You may not be aware of it, that doesn't mean it ain't happening!
> 
> 
> Late Sunday evening, *TheTeaParty.net, arguably the largest Tea Party organization,* appeared to urge a boycott of Starbucks over same-sex marriage.
> 
> The non-profit organizations Facebook page, which boasts over 1.6 million Likes, posted the following link to Dump Starbucks:"]Conservatives Boycott Starbucks Over Coffee Chains Support Of Same-Sex Marriage
> Conservatives Boycott Starbucks Over Coffee Chain?s Support Of Same-Sex Marriage | Mediaite
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but there really is no official "tea party" It's a grassroots movement. Like OWS, only with people that bathe regularly, have jobs, and do not live in tents.
Click to expand...



When the far left gets scared it needs its Boogeyman. If one doesn't exist they will manufacture one then send forth their minions in the left-wing media to try and bring it to life.


----------



## Mertex

Spoonman said:


> Mertex said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I wasn't aware* the tea party had taken a stance on gay rights
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You may not be aware of it, that doesn't mean it ain't happening!
> 
> 
> Late Sunday evening, *TheTeaParty.net, arguably the largest Tea Party organization,* appeared to urge a boycott of Starbucks over same-sex marriage.
> 
> The non-profit organizations Facebook page, which boasts over 1.6 million Likes, posted the following link to Dump Starbucks:"]Conservatives Boycott Starbucks Over Coffee Chains Support Of Same-Sex Marriage
> Conservatives Boycott Starbucks Over Coffee Chain?s Support Of Same-Sex Marriage | Mediaite
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you are kidding me right? now do you want to tell me which tea party members of congress are members of this organization, support this organization, make donations to this organization, attend their fund raisers, attend their ralleys.     it's kind of like saying a left wing lunatic group like moveon.org is the democratic party.
Click to expand...


So, you are saying that all those groups that call themselves "Tea Party" are not really the "Tea Party"?  

Has the "Real" Tea Party made an announcement that they are not against same-sex marriage? 

The majority of Tea Party movements all follow the same typical agenda of Bachmann, Palin, Cruz, Rubio, Rand, etc., that are all against same-sex marriage.  

Even "gay" Tea Partier opposes gay-marriage! 

Gay Tea Party leader opposes same-sex marriage - Arlington Conservative | Examiner.com

Wiki:
*The Tea Party movement is composed of a loose affiliation of national and local groups that determine their own platforms and agendas without central leadership.* The Tea Party movement has been cited as an example of grassroots political activity, although it has also been described as an example of astroturfing.[51]
*The Tea Party movement is not a national political party;* polls show that *most Tea Partiers consider themselves to be Republicans*[52][53] and the movement's supporters have tended to endorse Republican candidates.[54] Commentators, including Gallup editor-in-chief Frank Newport, have suggested that the movement is not a new political group but simply a re-branding of traditional Republican candidates and policies.[52][55][56] An October 2010 Washington Post canvass of local Tea Party organizers found 87% saying "dissatisfaction with mainstream Republican Party leaders" was "an important factor in the support the group has received so far".[57]
*The Tea Party movement's membership includes Republican politicians Sarah Palin, Dick Armey, Michele Bachmann, Marco Rubio, and Ted Cruz.* In July 2010, Bachmann formed the Tea Party Congressional Caucus;[58] however, the caucus has been defunct since July 2012.[59] An article in Politico reported that many Tea Party activists were skeptical of the caucus, seeing it as an effort by the Republican Party to hijack the movement. Utah congressman Jason Chaffetz refused to join the caucus, saying
*Structure and formality are the exact opposite of what the Tea Party is,* and if there is an attempt to put structure and formality around it, or to co-opt it by Washington, D.C., its going to take away from the free-flowing nature of the true tea party movement.


----------



## Mertex

Unkotare said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mertex said:
> 
> 
> 
> You may not be aware of it, that doesn't mean it ain't happening!
> 
> 
> Late Sunday evening, *TheTeaParty.net, arguably the largest Tea Party organization,* appeared to urge a boycott of Starbucks over same-sex marriage.
> 
> The non-profit organizations Facebook page, which boasts over 1.6 million Likes, posted the following link to Dump Starbucks:"]Conservatives Boycott Starbucks Over Coffee Chains Support Of Same-Sex Marriage
> Conservatives Boycott Starbucks Over Coffee Chain?s Support Of Same-Sex Marriage | Mediaite
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but there really is no official "tea party" It's a grassroots movement. Like OWS, only with people that bathe regularly, have jobs, and do not live in tents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> When the far left gets scared it needs its Boogeyman. If one doesn't exist they will manufacture one then send forth their minions in the left-wing media to try and bring it to life.
Click to expand...



Ha,ha, you're really funny.  Scared?  Scared that the GOP is self-imploding?  We don't need to have a Boogeyman, the GOP and it's Tea Party whackos are their own boogeyman, and they keep it alive each time they come up with another extremist expounding nonsense and wasting our money, like Ted Cruz.

Tea Party may be a grassroots organization, but it has leeched itself unto the Republican party because so many of your leaders embrace their nonsense, and it is causing your party to disintegrate right before your eyes.  Now that should be scary..............for you!


----------



## Neotrotsky

*One more reason why republicans will lose big in 2014*

I hear you

Here is one more 

Senate Democrats Seek to Extend Obamacare Enrollment Period

_Ten Senate Democrats, including seven facing re-election next year, are backing away from their party by calling for changes to the federal health-care program.
The senators are seeking an extension of the deadline for people to join health-care exchanges because of &#8220;substantial technology glitches&#8221; with healthcare.gov, the primary way for consumers to shop for insurance. Website failures have made it harder for people to compare coverage and enroll in the U.S. plans before March 31 or face penalties.
_​

It is very entertaining to watch the left in panic mode.


----------



## Unkotare

Mertex said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but there really is no official "tea party" It's a grassroots movement. Like OWS, only with people that bathe regularly, have jobs, and do not live in tents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the far left gets scared it needs its Boogeyman. If one doesn't exist they will manufacture one then send forth their minions in the left-wing media to try and bring it to life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Ha,ha, you're really funny.  Scared?  !
Click to expand...



Yes, scared. You and your ilk are obviously terrified of regular Americans voicing their opinions about limited government, fiscal responsibility, and adherence to the Constitution. You need to ask yourself why that would be so threatening to you.


----------



## Euroconservativ

Oh my God those crazy racist Republicans:

BBC News - David Cameron backs illegal-immigrant text message campaign
Support for 'go home' immigration vans increases








No, he is just a pro-gay, pro-choice, pro-science european conservative that understands what massive illegal immigration means for a Welfare State and social peace.


----------



## Mertex

Unkotare said:


> Mertex said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> When the far left gets scared it needs its Boogeyman. If one doesn't exist they will manufacture one then send forth their minions in the left-wing media to try and bring it to life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ha,ha, you're really funny.  Scared?  !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, scared. You and your ilk are obviously terrified of regular Americans
Click to expand...


First, they are not regular Americans, they are  freaking uninformed radical extremists.



> voicing their opinions about limited government, fiscal responsibility, and adherence to the Constitution.


They are telling lies, they are not fiscal responsible (wasting $24 Billion is not fiscal responsible), and they pick and choose what part of the Constitution they are going to agree with on any given day.



> You need to ask yourself why that would be so threatening to you.


If you don't think uninformed radical extremists, lying and making things up, wasting our money on frivolous stunts, and shredding the Constitution is not threatening, then you are probably one of them!


----------



## OKTexas

Mertex said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mertex said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ha,ha, you're really funny.  Scared?  !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, scared. You and your ilk are obviously terrified of regular Americans
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First, they are not regular Americans, they are  freaking uninformed radical extremists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> voicing their opinions about limited government, fiscal responsibility, and adherence to the Constitution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are telling lies, they are not fiscal responsible (wasting $24 Billion is not fiscal responsible), and they pick and choose what part of the Constitution they are going to agree with on any given day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to ask yourself why that would be so threatening to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you don't think uninformed radical extremists, lying and making things up, wasting our money on frivolous stunts, and shredding the Constitution is not threatening, then you are probably one of them!
Click to expand...


Damn, talk about willful ignorance.

Tea Party Supporters Richer, More Educated Than Most

"Of the Tea Party supporters who responded, 20 percent make more than $100,000, versus 14 percent for the general pool of people polled. Fourteen percent of Tea Party supporters have a post-graduate education, compared with 10 percent for the general public. Twenty-three percent of Tea Party supporters have a college degree, compared with 15 percent for the general public, according to the poll."

Tea Party Supporters Richer, More Educated Than Most, Poll Finds | Fox News


----------



## Neotrotsky

I hear you 

This reactionary leftist keeps saying "*uniformed *radical extremists." 

The only "uniformed radical extremists" I can remember in recent politics are from supporters of Papa Obama









Oh, I'm sorry you said* uninformed*
I must have read that quick ....


----------



## Unkotare

Mertex said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mertex said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ha,ha, you're really funny.  Scared?  !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, scared. You and your ilk are obviously terrified of regular Americans
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First, they are not regular Americans, they are  freaking uninformed radical extremists.
Click to expand...



There we go. Demean, dismiss, dehumanize. That's what a nation does to its mortal enemies during wartime. This is what the far left does with anyone or anything it is truly afraid of; even and especially fellow citizens who happen to disagree with their politics.


----------



## Unkotare

Mertex said:


> If you don't think uninformed radical extremists, lying and making things up, wasting our money on frivolous stunts, and shredding the Constitution is not threatening, then you are probably one of them!






There we go. This kind of illogical, irrational fear of normal, common-sense Americans says volumes about the intolerant left.


----------



## Neotrotsky

*One more reason why republicans will lose big in 2014*

One has to wonder if this will be one of the reasons

Right wing 
CBS


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iFfohhfau8]Obamacare enrollment got off to very slow start - YouTube[/ame]


What a spectualar failure by the administration when one
considers that the target was....

Obama health target: 500,000 signups by Oct. 31



Is the radical left still claiming Papa Obama care is going to save the US gov't money?



Obama lied
Health Care plans died


----------



## rightwinger

Neotrotsky said:


> I hear you
> 
> This reactionary leftist keeps saying "*uniformed *radical extremists."
> 
> The only "uniformed radical extremists" I can remember in recent politics are from supporters of Papa Obama
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I'm sorry you said* uninformed*
> I must have read that quick ....



Oh NO  

Scary black men.......and there is TWO of them


----------



## Neotrotsky

Strange
we were talking about uniforms

The left is always trying to use race
funny how that works


----------



## JoeB131

Meister said:


> In regards to immigration....is it too much to ask to close the border first, before going any further?  I mean, it was supposed to be closed after the Reagan amnesty.....right????
> I think that's the biggest hang up with immigration.
> 
> .



The stupidity of the statement is that the border CAN be closed.  

besides the fact that most "illegals" are people who came here on valid visas that ultimately expired, the reality is, as long as you have employers hiring illegals, you are goign to have illegals.  

Setting an unreachable goalpost before we deal with the people already here is a dodge.  



> It's hard to deal with a party who's intent is to redistribute wealth in this country.....the takers will always vote for that.  Hopefully there will be enough democrats who are beginning to feel the pinch of the redistribution of wealth regarding Obamacare.  People tend to be lax regarding politics until it hits home with them, then they catch on quickly



But here's the problem.  

The real redistribution hasn't been from the working class to the welfare class, it's been to the rich.   Middle class wages have declined, while the rich have gotten richer, to the point where the top 20% control 87% of the wealth and the top 1% control 43% of the wealth.  

ANd while I would agree, we have too many people looking to the government for a living, what alternative does the GOP offer?  

It seems to be, "Get used until you are no longer useful, and then go off and starve."


----------



## rightwinger

Neotrotsky said:


> Strange
> we were talking about uniforms
> 
> The left is always trying to use race
> funny how that works



Why don't you post a video of that obamaphone lady....that is alway good for a laugh


----------



## Neotrotsky

The current news on Papa Obama care
is sufficient for most comic relief


----------



## Euroconservativ

Check your facts, please. The *Far Right* is this and nothing else:

The European far-right is growing. And not only for the reasons you think | Left Foot Forward

Identitarianism, economic populism, anti-rich rhetoric, anti-globalization, anti-free trade, anti-immigration (legal or not), etc


----------



## Gadawg73

Obamacare is the best issue the GOP has had in 8 years. As a life long hunter, fisherman and maniac coming off the end that story of "you can keep your insurance if you like it and your doctor" is one of the all time whoppers.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

Gadawg73 said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Until many Republicans quit treating gays like second class citizens, quit claiming scientists are Marxists and abandon their support for government control of abortion expect another ass kicking the next election.
> This ain't rocket science.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very true...
> 
> America would be better off if we started nation building within our own country. They wouldn't want to go back to the 18th century as reality sucks far more then words.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As someone that is an independent and votes Republican most of the time I am more concerned about FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY than who marries who.
> GOP with a big tent platform would win again.
> Tired of losing, born to win.
> Plus anyone that puts gay marriage as a priority issue is a dumb ass.
Click to expand...


I agree, in that religion should not be forced through politics. You can't have freedom of religion as long as you hold onto the notion that someone's "beliefs" can be used to influence those who don't. Just as, in the same fashion government can't dictate how someone ought to demonstrate or publicly display their faith.  Both cases are guilty of dictating THEIR influence or view of religion, through one's own belief ... or lack of acceptance.


----------



## Katzndogz

obama's lie about obamacare is taken in context reminding people of all the other lies, all the other times he blamed someone else, avoided telling the truth and used the media to be his mouthpiece.   The public has had enough.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

Gadawg73 said:


> Until many Republicans quit treating gays like second class citizens, quit claiming scientists are Marxists and abandon their support for government control of abortion expect another ass kicking the next election.
> This ain't rocket science.



As long as government places itself in the "position" of abortion through taxpayer funding, people will always interjecting their own political stand or influence .... one way or the other.


----------



## Mertex

Unkotare said:


> Mertex said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, scared. You and your ilk are obviously terrified of regular Americans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First, they are not regular Americans, they are  freaking uninformed radical extremists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There we go. Demean, dismiss, dehumanize. That's what a nation does to its mortal enemies during wartime. This is what the far left does with anyone or anything it is truly afraid of; even and especially fellow citizens who happen to disagree with their politics.
Click to expand...


Just calling out the facts, man, just the facts.  We're not as afraid as you might think, since there is safety in numbers, and it seems that your numbers are dwindling down.


----------



## Unkotare

Mertex said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mertex said:
> 
> 
> 
> First, they are not regular Americans, they are  freaking uninformed radical extremists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There we go. Demean, dismiss, dehumanize. That's what a nation does to its mortal enemies during wartime. This is what the far left does with anyone or anything it is truly afraid of; even and especially fellow citizens who happen to disagree with their politics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just calling out the facts, man, just the facts.  .
Click to expand...




No, you are "just calling out" the usual hyper-partisan, entirely subjective, empty nonsense that anyone reading your posts has come to expect from you. You have rendered yourself as irrelevant as rdean, ludite, franco the illiterate, and the other purveyors of pointless, predictable partisanship.


----------



## Unkotare

Mertex said:


> it seems that your numbers are dwindling down.




What do you mean 'my' numbers?


----------



## Mertex

Unkotare said:


> Mertex said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> There we go. Demean, dismiss, dehumanize. That's what a nation does to its mortal enemies during wartime. This is what the far left does with anyone or anything it is truly afraid of; even and especially fellow citizens who happen to disagree with their politics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just calling out the facts, man, just the facts.  .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you are "just calling out" the usual hyper-partisan, entirely subjective, empty nonsense that anyone reading your posts has come to expect from you. You have rendered yourself as irrelevant as rdean, ludite, franco the illiterate, and the other purveyors of pointless, predictable partisanship.
Click to expand...


Ha,ha, as if your word had any weight.  You're the one that has been relegated to the vitriolic section of the rightmost rightwing radicals, and the nonsense you spew is just that, nonsense.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Zander said:


> Mertex said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most all Republicans I know do not give a shit about gay marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're not talking about Tpublicans, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Huh? You're getting your right wing boogymen confused!
> 
> The TEA in tea party stands for TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY.  That is their focus- taxation and fiscal responsibility. The Tea Party has nothing to do with social issues.
Click to expand...


You better inform the social traditionalists who certainly do think that, Zander.


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> Obamacare is the best issue the GOP has had in 8 years. As a life long hunter, fisherman and maniac coming off the end that story of "you can keep your insurance if you like it and your doctor" is one of the all time whoppers.



Actually, most people in the real world where 80% of us do get to keep our current plans and 16% of us get better plans, you're really going for that 4% that didn't know how bad the insurance companies were cheating them.


----------



## JakeStarkey

JoeB131 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obamacare is the best issue the GOP has had in 8 years. As a life long hunter, fisherman and maniac coming off the end that story of "you can keep your insurance if you like it and your doctor" is one of the all time whoppers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, most people in the real world where 80% of us do get to keep our current plans and 16% of us get better plans, you're really going for that 4% that didn't know how bad the insurance companies were cheating them.
Click to expand...


The great majority of  the 4%, like Gadawag, will come around by the first of February as they realize they are getting better plans.


----------



## JoeB131

JakeStarkey said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obamacare is the best issue the GOP has had in 8 years. As a life long hunter, fisherman and maniac coming off the end that story of "you can keep your insurance if you like it and your doctor" is one of the all time whoppers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, most people in the real world where 80% of us do get to keep our current plans and 16% of us get better plans, you're really going for that 4% that didn't know how bad the insurance companies were cheating them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The great majority of  the 4%, like Gadawag, will come around by the first of February as they realize they are getting better plans.
Click to expand...


Naw, he'd never admit his plan was better even if it was... 

ODS is too serious.


----------



## Neotrotsky

JoeB131 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obamacare is the best issue the GOP has had in 8 years. As a life long hunter, fisherman and maniac coming off the end that story of "you can keep your insurance if you like it and your doctor" is one of the all time whoppers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, most people in the real world where 80% of us do get to keep our current plans and 16% of us get better plans, you're really going for that 4% that didn't know how bad the insurance companies were cheating them.
Click to expand...


Yes the real world

Explains why the left always grossly underestimates the cost of programs


Right Wing
NBC

_Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, &#8220;40 to 67 percent&#8221; of customers will not be able to keep their policy. _​


----------



## Unkotare

Mertex said:


> You're the one that has been relegated to the vitriolic section of the rightmost rightwing radicals, and the nonsense you spew is just that, nonsense.





For example?


----------



## JoeB131

Neotrotsky said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obamacare is the best issue the GOP has had in 8 years. As a life long hunter, fisherman and maniac coming off the end that story of "you can keep your insurance if you like it and your doctor" is one of the all time whoppers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, most people in the real world where 80% of us do get to keep our current plans and 16% of us get better plans, you're really going for that 4% that didn't know how bad the insurance companies were cheating them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes the real world
> 
> Explains why the left always grossly underestimates the cost of programs
> 
> 
> Right Wing
> NBC
> 
> _Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, 40 to 67 percent of customers will not be able to keep their policy. _​
Click to expand...


Exactly- NORMAL TURNOVER.  

So Obama is guilty of not explaining to people in the individual market how the indivual market actually works.  (Which mostly seems to consist of "Well, they are probably going to fuck you at the first oppurtunity.") I think most people in the individual market already know it's a problem.


----------



## Neotrotsky

I hear you
These stupid masses; the majority thought they were happy with their plans.
But, really a group of elitists know what is better for people than people themselves. 

NORMAL- is not gov't driven obsolescence; gov't induced turnover



and changing the regulations to increase the number of turnover
lying,over and over, that it would not happen after he did it

senate dems unanimously voting against to allow Americans to keep their plan


Really, lies that will impact millions of Americans, there is no way for the Left and Papa Obama
to overcome that lost of trust


----------



## JoeB131

Neotrotsky said:


> I hear you
> These stupid masses; the majority thought they were happy with their plans.
> But, really a group of elitists know what is better for people than people themselves.
> 
> NORMAL- is not gov't driven obsolescence; gov't induced turnover
> 
> and changing the regulations to increase the number of turnover
> lying,over and over, that it would not happen after he did it
> 
> senate dems unanimously voting against to allow Americans to keep their plan
> 
> 
> Really, lies that will impact millions of Americans, there is no way for the Left and Papa Obama
> to overcome that lost of trust



Except that no plan is ever permanent, and you know it.  

Frankly, in the last 11 years between the two jobs I've worked, my "plan" has been changed no less than six times.  All of this without ObamaCare having any effect.  In fact, since ObamaCare, they've been careful NOT to upset the apple cart because they don't want people surfing the exchanges.  

This of course, includes the time I was downsized by my company after running up $50,000 in medical expenses with two operations they just did not want to pay for, and I had to fight with them for three years on.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Except 85% of people were happy with their plans.
Papa Obama and the left lied about keeping them

Straight up, dude
The left is going to have a hard time running from this one
No matter how they try to spin it

You are guys are starting to sound like strict parents
"johnny, we know you are mad about this; but we
are your parents and we know what is best"


----------



## bigrebnc1775

ron4342 said:


> After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there) and that if the republicans wanted to remain relevant they needed to change also. The recommendation was that the republican party needs to actively work toward bringing Hispanics into the party.
> They have a perfect chance to do that now but I fully expect that the republican party will once again shoot themselves in the foot. What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do. This places the republicans in a bind. Should they strongly support a sweeping immigration plan (similar to what Obama is offering) OR should they dig in their heels and refuse to accept any plan Obama offers just as they have done throughout the last five years.
> I am betting that the republicans will dig in their heels and refuse to offer a plan similar to Obama's. In other words, they will once again play the obstruction card and in the process slap the people who could help them win elections in the face. And then, after losing the Hispanic vote by a wide margin in 2014, they will once again scratch their heads and ask "Why did we lose? I don't understand."



WOW a presidential election means republicans got thrashed? 2010 democrats had the biggest lose across the board ever. Some old timers democrats didn't even run state governments saw a lot of changes. North Carolina 140 years of democratic control of the legislation got changed. So a presidential election of two mirror images and you call that a thrashing?  Who open the door of the funny farm?


----------



## Gadawg73

JoeB131 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obamacare is the best issue the GOP has had in 8 years. As a life long hunter, fisherman and maniac coming off the end that story of "you can keep your insurance if you like it and your doctor" is one of the all time whoppers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, most people in the real world where 80% of us do get to keep our current plans and 16% of us get better plans, you're really going for that 4% that didn't know how bad the insurance companies were cheating them.
Click to expand...


4% is the spin Obama sold you and you buy it.
Just like when he said it would be NO ONE and you bought it.
Because you WANT to believe it. 
It will be 20% and that equates to millions.
But of course all you ever think of is you and yours.


----------



## Gadawg73

Amazing those here that call insurance companies crooks and someone else is paying their health insurance premiums.
For 34 years I have paid all of it myself.


----------



## JoeB131

Neotrotsky said:


> Except 85% of people were happy with their plans.
> Papa Obama and the left lied about keeping them
> 
> Straight up, dude
> The left is going to have a hard time running from this one
> No matter how they try to spin it
> 
> You are guys are starting to sound like strict parents
> "johnny, we know you are mad about this; but we
> are your parents and we know what is best"



Yeah, they are.  

Frankly, 96% of people are either going to see their plans improved or stay the same... 

It's really only about 4% who are going to see major changes, usually because what they had was inadequate.  Which is everyone else's concern, because the rest of us have to pick up that slack.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Gadawg73 said:


> Amazing those here that call insurance companies crooks and someone else is paying their health insurance premiums.
> For 34 years I have paid all of it myself.



And you may continue to do so.


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> Amazing those here that call insurance companies crooks and someone else is paying their health insurance premiums.
> For 34 years I have paid all of it myself.



Good for you.  

Of course, if everyone had to pay for it themselves, instead of working for it from an employer, the system would collapse and we'd get to Single Payer socialism that much faster.


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obamacare is the best issue the GOP has had in 8 years. As a life long hunter, fisherman and maniac coming off the end that story of "you can keep your insurance if you like it and your doctor" is one of the all time whoppers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, most people in the real world where 80% of us do get to keep our current plans and 16% of us get better plans, you're really going for that 4% that didn't know how bad the insurance companies were cheating them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 4% is the spin Obama sold you and you buy it.
> Just like when he said it would be NO ONE and you bought it.
> Because you WANT to believe it.
> It will be 20% and that equates to millions.
> But of course all you ever think of is you and yours.
Click to expand...


Yeah, if it doesn't effect me, I usually don't give a fuck. 

But the 4% number is about right. 

As far as what Obama said, I put that up there with "Read my lips, No New Taxes", "I didn't have sexual relations with that woman" and "Mission Accomplished".  Something that probably shouldn't have been said, but was.  At the end of the day, it doesn't mean that much, and we need to get about fixing the problem.


----------



## OODA_Loop

JoeB131 said:


> Frankly, 96% of people are either going to see their plans improved or stay the same...



96% is the number now ?


----------



## Neotrotsky

JoeB131 said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except 85% of people were happy with their plans.
> Papa Obama and the left lied about keeping them
> 
> Straight up, dude
> The left is going to have a hard time running from this one
> No matter how they try to spin it
> 
> You are guys are starting to sound like strict parents
> "johnny, we know you are mad about this; but we
> are your parents and we know what is best"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, they are.
> 
> Frankly, 96% of people are either going to see their plans improved or stay the same...
> 
> It's really only about 4% who are going to see major changes, usually because what they had was inadequate.  Which is everyone else's concern, because the rest of us have to pick up that slack.
Click to expand...


You can make up stats all day or quote WH propaganda
it does not take away from the reality

Right wing 
CBS


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iFfohhfau8]Obamacare enrollment got off to very slow start - YouTube[/ame]


What a spectualar failure by the administration when one
considers that the target was....

Obama health target: 500,000 signups by Oct. 31



Is the radical left still claiming Papa Obama care is going to save the US gov't money?



Obama lied
Health Care plans died


----------



## Neotrotsky

OODA_Loop said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Frankly, 96% of people are either going to see their plans improved or stay the same...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 96% is the number now ?
Click to expand...





It is very entertaining to watch the left and Papa Obama apologists poorly spin this monstrosity 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND_gFPNu-V0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND_gFPNu-V0[/ame]


----------



## Gadawg73

JakeStarkey said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing those here that call insurance companies crooks and someone else is paying their health insurance premiums.
> For 34 years I have paid all of it myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you may continue to do so.
Click to expand...


Wrong.
Due to the Obamacare subsidies I will paying mine, others and possibly yours now.


----------



## rightwinger

Gadawg73 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing those here that call insurance companies crooks and someone else is paying their health insurance premiums.
> For 34 years I have paid all of it myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you may continue to do so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> Due to the Obamacare subsidies I will paying mine, others and possibly yours now.
Click to expand...


You didn't pay for other peoples coverage before Obamacare?


----------



## OODA_Loop

rightwinger said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you may continue to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> Due to the Obamacare subsidies I will paying mine, others and possibly yours now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You didn't pay for other peoples coverage before Obamacare?
Click to expand...


Will pay more due to Obamacare.

And not just monetarily.


----------



## rightwinger

OODA_Loop said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> Due to the Obamacare subsidies I will paying mine, others and possibly yours now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't pay for other peoples coverage before Obamacare?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Will pay more due to Obamacare.
> 
> And not just monetarily.
Click to expand...

Link


----------



## OODA_Loop

rightwinger said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't pay for other peoples coverage before Obamacare?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will pay more due to Obamacare.
> 
> And not just monetarily.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link
Click to expand...


Increased demand of finite resource = cost increase.   Immutable truth.

Cost in dollars and strain on the health infrastructure itself.

I have to pay more for me and to carry *your weight* and I lose the level of access to the healthcare resource I had previously.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Is the Left still pretending that ObamaCare will save the US gov't money?

With all the lies Papa Obama and the left have told the American people
How we trust them?



Papa Obama lied
Healthcare plans died


----------



## rightwinger

OODA_Loop said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Will pay more due to Obamacare.
> 
> And not just monetarily.
> 
> 
> 
> Link
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Increased demand of finite resource = cost increase.   Immutable truth.
> 
> Cost in dollars and strain on the health infrastructure itself.
> 
> I have to pay more for me and to carry *your weight* and I lose the level of access to the healthcare resource I had previously.
Click to expand...


Who says medical services are finite?  They can't adapt to a new market?

What access do you lose?


----------



## OODA_Loop

rightwinger said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Increased demand of finite resource = cost increase.   Immutable truth.
> 
> Cost in dollars and strain on the health infrastructure itself.
> 
> I have to pay more for me and to carry *your weight* and I lose the level of access to the healthcare resource I had previously.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who says medical services are finite?  They can't adapt to a new market?
> 
> What access do you lose?
Click to expand...


Finite number of doctors and facilities = wait = reduced access.

All while I now have to formally carry your water too.


----------



## rightwinger

OODA_Loop said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Increased demand of finite resource = cost increase.   Immutable truth.
> 
> Cost in dollars and strain on the health infrastructure itself.
> 
> I have to pay more for me and to carry *your weight* and I lose the level of access to the healthcare resource I had previously.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who says medical services are finite?  They can't adapt to a new market?
> 
> What access do you lose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Finite number of doctors and facilities = wait = reduced access.
> 
> All while I now have to formally carry your water too.
Click to expand...


More money going into the healthcare market means more doctors and more facilities. 

Who is carrying your water?


----------



## Neotrotsky

* One more reason why republicans will lose big in 2014*

No doubt this will be some of them


Besides the lost of trust with the American people that Papa Obama and the left totally threw out
with their lies, the Left and Obama apologists just had another setback
for their radical leftist agenda:


DC appellate court rules against HHS contraception mandate, for religious liberty


_The Obama administration said that the requirement is necessary to protect women&#8217;s health and abortion rights. The judges were unconvinced that forcing companies to violate their religious rights was appropriate.

Brown wrote that &#8220;it is clear the government has failed to demonstrate how such a right &#8212; whether described as noninterference, privacy, or autonomy &#8212; can extend to the compelled subsidization of a woman&#8217;s procreative practices.&#8221;

&#8220;The provision of these services &#8212; even without the contraceptive mandate &#8212; by and large fulfills the statutory command for insurers to provide gender-specific preventive care,&#8221; she wrote. &#8220;At the very least, the statutory scheme will not go to pieces.&#8221;_​
_
The HHS mandate burdens their exercise of religion by pressuring them to approve and endorse the inclusion of objectionable coverage in their companies&#8217; health plans. &#8220;They can either abide by the sacred tenets of their faith, pay a penalty of over $14 million, and cripple the companies they have spent a lifetime building, or they become complicit in a grave moral wrong.&#8221; (Slip op. at 20; see generally pp. 17-23.) The government&#8217;s supposedly compelling interest is nebulous (slip op. at 23-28), and even if it were compelling, the HHS mandate is not the least restrictive means of furthering that interest (slip op. at 28-32.)_​



Is the Left still pretending that ObamaCare will save the US gov't money?

Papa Obama lied
Healthcare plans died


----------



## JakeStarkey

Reactionaries are full opinion and theory but no facts.

We will have to wait and see.

My theory is the once inflationary overwhelming costs of health care are going to continue to flatten.


----------



## Big Black Dog

If the Republicans loose big in the 2014 elections it will be because they don't have any freebies to hand out like free cell phones, food stamps, extended unemployment benefits and the list goes on and on...  Elections these days aren't based on what's best for the country but "what can you give me for free".


----------



## OODA_Loop

rightwinger said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who says medical services are finite?  They can't adapt to a new market?
> 
> What access do you lose?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finite number of doctors and facilities = wait = reduced access.
> 
> All while I now have to formally carry your water too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More money going into the healthcare market means more doctors and more facilities.
> 
> Who is carrying your water?
Click to expand...


It is not "more money" it is more "demand".  

With respect to health insurance premiums I carry my own water


----------



## Neotrotsky

Big Black Dog said:


> If the Republicans loose big in the 2014 elections it will be because they don't have any freebies to hand out like free cell phones, food stamps, extended unemployment benefits and the list goes on and on...  Elections these days aren't based on what's best for the country but "what can you give me for free".



It is a shame how the extreme radical left and Obama apologists have ruined the Democratic party
Now with all the lies and total lost of trust with the American people, it may be lost forever

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8TjbbpVLh4]Forward- The Obama Way - YouTube[/ame]


Are the radical Left and Obama apologists still pretending that ObamaCare will save the US gov't money?

Papa Obama lied
Healthcare plans died
American public trust died


----------



## Gadawg73

rightwinger said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you may continue to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> Due to the Obamacare subsidies I will paying mine, others and possibly yours now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You didn't pay for other peoples coverage before Obamacare?
Click to expand...


No.


----------



## rightwinger

Gadawg73 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> Due to the Obamacare subsidies I will paying mine, others and possibly yours now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't pay for other peoples coverage before Obamacare?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.
Click to expand...


I'm afraid you did

Your bills were padded to pay for the uninsured and your taxes paid for emergency room treatments


----------



## bigrebnc1775

bigrebnc1775 said:


> ron4342 said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there) and that if the republicans wanted to remain relevant they needed to change also. The recommendation was that the republican party needs to actively work toward bringing Hispanics into the party.
> They have a perfect chance to do that now but I fully expect that the republican party will once again shoot themselves in the foot. What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do. This places the republicans in a bind. Should they strongly support a sweeping immigration plan (similar to what Obama is offering) OR should they dig in their heels and refuse to accept any plan Obama offers just as they have done throughout the last five years.
> I am betting that the republicans will dig in their heels and refuse to offer a plan similar to Obama's. In other words, they will once again play the obstruction card and in the process slap the people who could help them win elections in the face. And then, after losing the Hispanic vote by a wide margin in 2014, they will once again scratch their heads and ask "Why did we lose? I don't understand."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW a presidential election means republicans got thrashed? 2010 democrats had the biggest lose across the board ever. Some old timers democrats didn't even run state governments saw a lot of changes. North Carolina 140 years of democratic control of the legislation got changed. So a presidential election of two mirror images and you call that a thrashing?  Who open the door of the funny farm?
Click to expand...


Ron where did you go? Does it scare you to be so wrong?


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Big Black Dog said:


> If the Republicans loose big in the 2014 elections it will be because they don't have any freebies to hand out like free cell phones, food stamps, extended unemployment benefits and the list goes on and on...  Elections these days aren't based on what's best for the country but "what can you give me for free".


Wait just one second I see the plan now obama reduces food stamps now so that he can mysteriously increase and make permanent  food stamps just before the 2014 election. Good political move, not good for America


----------



## Mertex

rightwinger said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't pay for other peoples coverage before Obamacare?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm afraid you did
> 
> Your bills were padded to pay for the uninsured and your taxes paid for emergency room treatments
Click to expand...


No wonder!  They don't know they have been subsidizing dead weights all along and think the Unicorns and fairies paid for all that medical care!


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

JoeB131 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obamacare is the best issue the GOP has had in 8 years. As a life long hunter, fisherman and maniac coming off the end that story of "you can keep your insurance if you like it and your doctor" is one of the all time whoppers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, most people in the real world where 80% of us do get to keep our current plans and 16% of us get better plans, you're really going for that 4% that didn't know how bad the insurance companies were cheating them.
Click to expand...


Actually you don't get to keep your plan if your company's insurance provider does not measure up to the new standards of Obamacare. By looking to other plans that do, you WILL be paying more for your insurance coverage. That's the NEW reality of hope and change, speaking from personal experience.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

JoeB131 said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except 85% of people were happy with their plans.
> Papa Obama and the left lied about keeping them
> 
> Straight up, dude
> The left is going to have a hard time running from this one
> No matter how they try to spin it
> 
> You are guys are starting to sound like strict parents
> "johnny, we know you are mad about this; but we
> are your parents and we know what is best"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, they are.
> 
> Frankly, 96% of people are either going to see their plans improved or stay the same...
> 
> It's really only about 4% who are going to see major changes, usually because what they had was inadequate.  Which is everyone else's concern, because the rest of us have to pick up that slack.
Click to expand...


It's not that the old plans are inadequate, as I sat with someone who was happy with their older plan that the employer provided. However, thanks to Obamacare that provider has to be changed with a one that will include a first time expense of $83 a week right out of their paycheck. They were much happier before this Obamacare law went into effect. Those who LOVE the plan, will be those individuals who are too poor to afford health care and all the taxpayers will have to pick up the slack. Welcome to the health care cost shell game, the left is not fooling anybody.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

JoeB131 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing those here that call insurance companies crooks and someone else is paying their health insurance premiums.
> For 34 years I have paid all of it myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good for you.
> 
> Of course, if everyone had to pay for it themselves, instead of working for it from an employer, the system would collapse and we'd get to Single Payer socialism that much faster.
Click to expand...


.... and the government Health Care plans in England and Canada are STILL facing an increasing debt problem as a result. Single payer WILL NOT reduce health care spending costs that the government will find added to their debt.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

rightwinger said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you may continue to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> Due to the Obamacare subsidies I will paying mine, others and possibly yours now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You didn't pay for other peoples coverage before Obamacare?
Click to expand...



Like those that are considered "too poor to pay taxes", the resulting bill left for the rest of us taxpayers keeps growing.


----------



## JakeStarkey

shakles, your buddy can elect to not take the company plan.

You are aware of that.

Your bud can comparison shop for a better plan to fit his needs at an equitable cost.

It's consumer capitalism, something you hate.


----------



## PredFan

If I've told you moron lefties once, I've told you a hundred times; the reaso you will win most elections for quite some time is simply because the number of ignorant and lazy people is now larger than the number of smart and productive people.


----------



## ecinicola

i'M NOT SO SURE REPUBLICAN WILL LOSE.  I THINK THAT THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY ARE STARTING TO WAKE UP AND SEE THE DAMAGE THIS ADMINISTRARTION IS CAUSING ON ALL OF US.   FOR STARTERS, OBAMACARE IS GOING TO TAKE AWAY YOUR IDENTITY AND YOUR PRIVACY AND CONTROL EVERY ASPECT OF YOUR LIFE....ITS THAT WHAT YOU WANT.?    PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT THIS ADMINISTRATION IS DOING.     I AM NOT SAYING ONE PARTY IS BETTER THEN THE OTHER, SINCE I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT PARTY AFFLIATION.  ITS WHAT THEY ARE DOING THAT IS OF IMPORTANCE      THEY ARE DOING EVERYTHING FOR THEMSELVES AND NOTHING FOR US.  THEY ELIMINATE THEMSELVES FROM OBAMACARE AND ANYTHING ELSE THEY ARE FORCEING ON US.    YOU HAVE NO CHOICE IN YOUR OWN LIFE WITH THIS BUNCH OF POLITICIANS.   I AM VOTING OUT ALL POLITICIANS WITH INCUMBANT NEXT TO THEIR NAME.....ALLL OF THEM....ITS TIME TO GET NEW PEOPLE THAT WILL WORK FOR US AND NOT FOR THEMSELVES.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

Big Black Dog said:


> If the Republicans loose big in the 2014 elections it will be because they don't have any freebies to hand out like free cell phones, food stamps, extended unemployment benefits and the list goes on and on...  Elections these days aren't based on what's best for the country but "what can you give me for free".



Ask NOT what you can do for your country, but what your country can do for you


----------



## freedombecki

Meister said:


> Once there is amnesty, who's going to be doing those jobs that "nobody else will do" at below min. wage? This is why there will never be a closed border, just amnesty after amnesty.
> GOP gets it and the dems want the voting block.


 Amnesty? Bilingual people are rarely ignorant. They'll go for the universities for free educations in exchange for coming here, and the American taxpayer will foot the bill.

OTOH, America will be the recipients of some very bright human beings who have the fire of ambition and the population to enjoy benefits they wouldn't enjoy in Mexico, where kingpins hoard the wealth away from _los pobrecitos_.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

JakeStarkey said:


> shakles, your buddy can elect to not take the company plan.
> 
> You are aware of that.
> 
> Your bud can comparison shop for a better plan to fit his needs at an equitable cost.
> 
> It's consumer capitalism, something you hate.



They can't afford it with two kids, without going to the government provided plan. They would rather pass on that.


----------



## Mad_Cabbie

PredFan said:


> If I've told you moron lefties once, I've told you a hundred times; the reaso you will win most elections for quite some time is simply because the number of ignorant and lazy people is now larger than the number of smart and productive people.



Who votes to keep entitlements in red states? Gues it's the Libs that obviously outnumber the _well to do_ conservatives. 

Obama appealed more to the indipendents, who were turned off by endless wars and "investigations" of political foes by partisan hacks.


----------



## hunarcy

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, most people in the real world where 80% of us do get to keep our current plans and 16% of us get better plans, you're really going for that 4% that didn't know how bad the insurance companies were cheating them.



And if the promise had been that 80% would keep their current plan and 16% would get better plans, you'd be sitting pretty.  But the promise was that if if you like your health plan, you can keep it.  We know now that they knew that wasn't true.

And, the fact is that while you claim the plans are better, they require people to buy plans that provide coverages they don't need.  For example, why would a 50 year old woman need maternity coverage?


----------



## JakeStarkey

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> shakles, your buddy can elect to not take the company plan.
> 
> You are aware of that.
> 
> Your bud can comparison shop for a better plan to fit his needs at an equitable cost.
> 
> It's consumer capitalism, something you hate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They can't afford it with two kids, without going to the government provided plan. They would rather pass on that.
Click to expand...


They are exercising their right under consumer capitalism, and you are complaining?


----------



## JakeStarkey

hunarcy said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, most people in the real world where 80% of us do get to keep our current plans and 16% of us get better plans, you're really going for that 4% that didn't know how bad the insurance companies were cheating them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And if the promise had been that 80% would keep their current plan and 16% would get better plans, you'd be sitting pretty.  But the promise was that if if you like your health plan, you can keep it.  We know now that they knew that wasn't true.
> 
> And, the fact is that while you claim the plans are better, they require people to buy plans that provide coverages they don't need.  For example, why would a 50 year old woman need maternity coverage?
Click to expand...


If 4% of the folks are unhappy, then the plans are fantastic.

Things can be adjusted for the 4% down the road.

America is not going backwards, son.


----------



## JoeB131

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obamacare is the best issue the GOP has had in 8 years. As a life long hunter, fisherman and maniac coming off the end that story of "you can keep your insurance if you like it and your doctor" is one of the all time whoppers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, most people in the real world where 80% of us do get to keep our current plans and 16% of us get better plans, you're really going for that 4% that didn't know how bad the insurance companies were cheating them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually you don't get to keep your plan if your company's insurance provider does not measure up to the new standards of Obamacare. By looking to other plans that do, you WILL be paying more for your insurance coverage. That's the NEW reality of hope and change, speaking from personal experience.
Click to expand...


If it wasn't meeting the standard, it was a sucky plan and you are better off without it. 

If my crappy, High Deductable, HSA plan qualifies, I can't imagine what a shit hole plan doesn't.


----------



## ron4342

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the Republicans loose big in the 2014 elections it will be because they don't have any freebies to hand out like free cell phones, food stamps, extended unemployment benefits and the list goes on and on... Elections these days aren't based on what's best for the country but "what can you give me for free".
> 
> 
> 
> Wait just one second I see the plan now obama reduces food stamps now so that he can mysteriously increase and make permanent food stamps just before the 2014 election. Good political move, not good for America
Click to expand...

This is a perfect example that illustrates exactly how little you understand how government works.  I will try to make my sentences as simple as possible so you will understand.
1)  The President CAN NOT spend money.  He can only sign bills passed by the House and Senate.
2)  The Senate CAN NOT spend money.  They can only vote yes or no on bills that have spending in them.
3)  The purse strings of the government are controled by the House.  They are the ones who CAN spend money
4)  Because the bill to fund the SNAP program was passed years ago neither the President nor the Senate can affect the Houses funding of the SNAP program.  In other words, neither the  President or the Senate have anything to do with the reduction in SNAP benefits. 
5)   THE REDUCTION OF SNAP BENEFITS IS SOLELY THE RESPOONSIBILITY OF THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS.
But hey, continue to blame in on Obama so you can show off your ignorance.


----------



## PredFan

Mad_Cabbie said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I've told you moron lefties once, I've told you a hundred times; the reaso you will win most elections for quite some time is simply because the number of ignorant and lazy people is now larger than the number of smart and productive people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who votes to keep entitlements in red states? Gues it's the Libs that obviously outnumber the _well to do_ conservatives.
> 
> Obama appealed more to the indipendents, who were turned off by endless wars and "investigations" of political foes by partisan hacks.
Click to expand...


Irrelevant, but we have a nice parting gift for you.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

ron4342 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the Republicans loose big in the 2014 elections it will be because they don't have any freebies to hand out like free cell phones, food stamps, extended unemployment benefits and the list goes on and on... Elections these days aren't based on what's best for the country but "what can you give me for free".
> 
> 
> 
> Wait just one second I see the plan now obama reduces food stamps now so that he can mysteriously increase and make permanent food stamps just before the 2014 election. Good political move, not good for America
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is a perfect example that illustrates exactly how little you understand how government works.  I will try to make my sentences as simple as possible so you will understand.
> 1)  The President CAN NOT spend money.  He can only sign bills passed by the House and Senate.
> 2)  The Senate CAN NOT spend money.  They can only vote yes or no on bills that have spending in them.
> 3)  The purse strings of the government are controled by the House.  They are the ones who CAN spend money
> 4)  Because the bill to fund the SNAP program was passed years ago neither the President nor the Senate can affect the Houses funding of the SNAP program.  In other words, neither the  President or the Senate have anything to do with the reduction in SNAP benefits.
> 5)   THE REDUCTION OF SNAP BENEFITS IS SOLELY THE RESPOONSIBILITY OF THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS.
> But hey, continue to blame in on Obama so you can show off your ignorance.
Click to expand...


It's not the government dumb ass this is how obama and the democrats work


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

JakeStarkey said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> shakles, your buddy can elect to not take the company plan.
> 
> You are aware of that.
> 
> Your bud can comparison shop for a better plan to fit his needs at an equitable cost.
> 
> It's consumer capitalism, something you hate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They can't afford it with two kids, without going to the government provided plan. They would rather pass on that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are exercising their right under consumer capitalism, and you are complaining?
Click to expand...


Consumer capitalism is not being forced out of your old health care plan, which is not acceptable to "Obamacare" standards, in order to pay more out of pocket to maintain coverage under a new one. True consumer capitalism is the ability of the consumer (NOT Government enduced regulations) to choose for YOURSELF to keep the plan you are happy with, without ANY government interference. What part of that don't you understand?


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

JoeB131 said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, most people in the real world where 80% of us do get to keep our current plans and 16% of us get better plans, you're really going for that 4% that didn't know how bad the insurance companies were cheating them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually you don't get to keep your plan if your company's insurance provider does not measure up to the new standards of Obamacare. By looking to other plans that do, you WILL be paying more for your insurance coverage. That's the NEW reality of hope and change, speaking from personal experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If it wasn't meeting the standard, it was a sucky plan and you are better off without it.
> 
> If my crappy, High Deductable, HSA plan qualifies, I can't imagine what a shit hole plan doesn't.
Click to expand...



It's the decision of the consumer and patient to choose their own plan and coverages THEY find acceptable for their family, with the doctors they prefer to have under their chosen plan, not to be forced by government into a plan they don't want.


----------



## JoeB131

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> It's the decision of the consumer and patient to choose their own plan and coverages THEY find acceptable for their family, with the doctors they prefer to have under their chosen plan, not to be forced by government into a plan they don't want.



The problem with that Ayn Randian HORSESHIT is this. 

Your company seemed legit. You paid them a bunch of money.  then you get into a car accident, and find out that they closed their offices and all the officers are now living in the Caymans on your money.  

OOOOOOkay.  Now, short of a mean old nasty government enforcing contract law and shit, exactly what is your recourse?


----------



## OODA_Loop

JoeB131 said:


> The problem with that Ayn Randian HORSESHIT is this.
> 
> Your company seemed legit. You paid them a bunch of money.  then you get into a car accident, and find out that they closed their offices and all the officers are now living in the Caymans on your money.



Single Payer auto insurance ?


----------



## OODA_Loop

JoeB131 said:


> The problem with that Ayn Randian HORSESHIT is this.
> 
> Your company seemed legit. You paid them a bunch of money.  then you get into a car accident, and find out that they closed their offices and all the officers are now living in the Caymans on your money.
> 
> OOOOOOkay.  Now, short of a mean old nasty government enforcing contract law and shit, exactly what is your recourse?



Against the law in my State and in most states if not all.


Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

624.441&#8195;Insolvency protection.


----------



## JoeB131

OODA_Loop said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with that Ayn Randian HORSESHIT is this.
> 
> Your company seemed legit. You paid them a bunch of money.  then you get into a car accident, and find out that they closed their offices and all the officers are now living in the Caymans on your money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Single Payer auto insurance ?
Click to expand...


Um, no, do try to pay attention. 

Okay for the RETARDS out there. 

"you are seriously MANGLED in an auto accident, and when you try to get medical treatment..." 

Happier now?


----------



## JoeB131

OODA_Loop said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with that Ayn Randian HORSESHIT is this.
> 
> Your company seemed legit. You paid them a bunch of money.  then you get into a car accident, and find out that they closed their offices and all the officers are now living in the Caymans on your money.
> 
> OOOOOOkay.  Now, short of a mean old nasty government enforcing contract law and shit, exactly what is your recourse?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Against the law in my State and in most states if not all.
> 
> 
> Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
> 
> 624.441&#8195;Insolvency protection.
Click to expand...


EXACTLY!!!!  

Wow- the *GOVERNMENT* makes sure these guys play it straight.  

I was starting to think you were a complete retard... 

Oh, wait. You still are.


----------



## OODA_Loop

JoeB131 said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with that Ayn Randian HORSESHIT is this.
> 
> Your company seemed legit. You paid them a bunch of money.  then you get into a car accident, and find out that they closed their offices and all the officers are now living in the Caymans on your money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Single Payer auto insurance ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, no, do try to pay attention.
> 
> Okay for the RETARDS out there.
> 
> "you are seriously MANGLED in an auto accident, and when you try to get medical treatment..."
> 
> Happier now?
Click to expand...


Your auto insurance still pays = PIP


----------



## OODA_Loop

JoeB131 said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with that Ayn Randian HORSESHIT is this.
> 
> Your company seemed legit. You paid them a bunch of money.  then you get into a car accident, and find out that they closed their offices and all the officers are now living in the Caymans on your money.
> 
> OOOOOOkay.  Now, short of a mean old nasty government enforcing contract law and shit, exactly what is your recourse?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Against the law in my State and in most states if not all.
> 
> 
> Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
> 
> 624.441&#8195;Insolvency protection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> EXACTLY!!!!
> 
> Wow- the *GOVERNMENT* makes sure these guys play it straight.
> 
> I was starting to think you were a complete retard...
> 
> Oh, wait. You still are.
Click to expand...


State government.

10th Amendment and all


----------



## Katzndogz

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually you don't get to keep your plan if your company's insurance provider does not measure up to the new standards of Obamacare. By looking to other plans that do, you WILL be paying more for your insurance coverage. That's the NEW reality of hope and change, speaking from personal experience.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it wasn't meeting the standard, it was a sucky plan and you are better off without it.
> 
> If my crappy, High Deductable, HSA plan qualifies, I can't imagine what a shit hole plan doesn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's the decision of the consumer and patient to choose their own plan and coverages THEY find acceptable for their family, with the doctors they prefer to have under their chosen plan, not to be forced by government into a plan they don't want.
Click to expand...


Democrats think that doctors should be forced to accept insurance plans they don't want.

MASON CONSERVATIVE: Virginia Democrat Calls For Forcing Doctors To Accept Medicare And Medicaid Patients

The answer to complaints about tyranny, to democrats, is more tyranny.


----------



## JakeStarkey

> True consumer capitalism is the ability of the consumer (NOT Government enduced regulations) to choose for YOURSELF to keep the plan you are happy with, without ANY government interference.



No, it is not.  Social Market Democracy has been a fact of consumer capitalism for more than a century.  That is not going to change at all.

You want completely unregulated capitalism, which would, in fact, tear America apart.


----------



## Gadawg73

JakeStarkey said:


> True consumer capitalism is the ability of the consumer (NOT Government enduced regulations) to choose for YOURSELF to keep the plan you are happy with, without ANY government interference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it is not.  Social Market Democracy has been a fact of consumer capitalism for more than a century.  That is not going to change at all.
> 
> You want completely unregulated capitalism, which would, in fact, tear America apart.
Click to expand...


Being able to chose for yourself is not "unregulated" capitalism. That is a load of bull shit. For hundreds of years insurance has been regulated by government and we had a choice to buy what we want be it liability and then in this century health insurance.


----------



## Gadawg73

I always love it when I hear "now let me tell you how government works". 
And leave out the many more examples of how government works have fucked up things more times than not.


----------



## Esmeralda

The bottom line is that the GOP just doesn't seem to have a clue:  women, minorities, immigration, social welfare programs, the environment, national health care, education, the economy, gun control, taxes--you name it: everything that is important to the average American, today's average American, the GOP is not in sync with, does not have a clue how the average American sees things.  LOL Too bad for them.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Gadawg73 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True consumer capitalism is the ability of the consumer (NOT Government enduced regulations) to choose for YOURSELF to keep the plan you are happy with, without ANY government interference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it is not.  Social Market Democracy has been a fact of consumer capitalism for more than a century.  That is not going to change at all.
> 
> You want completely unregulated capitalism, which would, in fact, tear America apart.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Being able to chose for yourself is not "unregulated" capitalism. That is a load of bull shit. For hundreds of years insurance has been regulated by government and we had a choice to buy what we want be it liability and then in this century health insurance.
Click to expand...


You are the BSer, but this is America: go for it.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Gadawg73 said:


> I always love it when I hear "now let me tell you how government works".
> And leave out the many more examples of how government works have fucked up things more times than not.



I hear you


Spent over 15 trillion on Great Society programs since 1965
we have about the same levels of poverty. Notice how quick it 
was dropping before the Great Society. 







Sure, lets double down and thrown in some more programs




Obama Lied
American Trust and Healthcare plans died


----------



## Contumacious

JakeStarkey said:


> You want completely unregulated capitalism, which would, *in fact, tear America apart.*




meaning that it would tear YOU apart , if you had fend for yourself. If you were cut off from the taxpayers' wealth.

.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Contumacious said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> You want completely unregulated capitalism, which would, *in fact, tear America apart.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> meaning that it would tear YOU apart , if you had fend for yourself. If you were cut off from the taxpayers' wealth.
Click to expand...


Well, you would freak if you had to give up your government assistance.


----------



## Contumacious

JakeStarkey said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> You want completely unregulated capitalism, which would, *in fact, tear America apart.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> meaning that it would tear YOU apart , if you had fend for yourself. If you were cut off from the taxpayers' wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, you would freak if you had to give up your government assistance.
Click to expand...


I am not the one waving the socialist flag and demanding a "fair share".

I have been working my butt off since I was 14 years old. I will continue to do so until I go to my grave.

.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

JoeB131 said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's the decision of the consumer and patient to choose their own plan and coverages THEY find acceptable for their family, with the doctors they prefer to have under their chosen plan, not to be forced by government into a plan they don't want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with that Ayn Randian HORSESHIT is this.
> 
> Your company seemed legit. You paid them a bunch of money.  then you get into a car accident, and find out that they closed their offices and all the officers are now living in the Caymans on your money.
> 
> OOOOOOkay.  Now, short of a mean old nasty government enforcing contract law and shit, exactly what is your recourse?
Click to expand...


Can you come up with any more "fantasy" points on this BS story of yours? I know you just LOVE government health care, but the reality of truth that people are discovering associated with Obamacare is not drawing a lot of young people to sign up..... which is why Obama is desperately looking to Hollywood for encouraging support.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

JakeStarkey said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> You want completely unregulated capitalism, which would, *in fact, tear America apart.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> meaning that it would tear YOU apart , if you had fend for yourself. If you were cut off from the taxpayers' wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, you would freak if you had to give up your government assistance.
Click to expand...



Not really Jake, it just means you have to get off your ass and try harder instead of looking to depend on that unemployment extension. As for Social Security, I can use that money that comes out of my check to build and set aside a better retirement.


----------



## JoeB131

Neotrotsky said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I always love it when I hear "now let me tell you how government works".
> And leave out the many more examples of how government works have fucked up things more times than not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hear you
> 
> 
> Spent over 15 trillion on Great Society programs since 1965
> we have about the same levels of poverty. Notice how quick it
> was dropping before the Great Society.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, lets double down and thrown in some more programs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obama Lied
> American Trust and Healthcare plans died
Click to expand...


actually, it continues to fall until Reagan becomes president and destroys the Middle Class.  

But they didn't teach you how to read charts in Troll School.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Speaking of troll like behavior
How is the former Republican theme
working out for you?

You know the 'concern troll' thing is so 90's

I could post back to you
but you might go off in a huff, again.

Are you really a male poster,  because that 
behavior is so effeminate


----------



## JakeStarkey

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> [/B]
> 
> meaning that it would tear YOU apart , if you had fend for yourself. If you were cut off from the taxpayers' wealth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you would freak if you had to give up your government assistance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not really Jake, it just means you have to get off your ass and try harder instead of looking to depend on that unemployment extension. As for Social Security, I can use that money that comes out of my check to build and set aside a better retirement.
Click to expand...


Admit that it is you who is on assistance, son, not me.  I have worked every day of my life from fifteen at something until the day I retired last December.

I made my way.

You should try it.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Contumacious said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> [/B]
> 
> meaning that it would tear YOU apart , if you had fend for yourself. If you were cut off from the taxpayers' wealth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you would freak if you had to give up your government assistance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not the one waving the socialist flag and demanding a "fair share".
> 
> I have been working my butt off since I was 14 years old. I will continue to do so until I go to my grave..
Click to expand...


You have been at one time or another on unemployment, yes?  I never have.  I did use the GI bill for my degrees.  Keep working, you may make something of yourself some day.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

JakeStarkey said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you would freak if you had to give up your government assistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really Jake, it just means you have to get off your ass and try harder instead of looking to depend on that unemployment extension. As for Social Security, I can use that money that comes out of my check to build and set aside a better retirement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Admit that it is you who is on assistance, son, not me.  I have worked every day of my life from fifteen at something until the day I retired last December.
> 
> I made my way.
> 
> You should try it.
Click to expand...

In case you've recently developed Alzheimer's at your age Jake, I wasn't the one found trying to DEFEND government assistance, I'd rather earn my own way than sit and have to depend on the government to support me.


----------



## Gadawg73

Esmeralda said:


> The bottom line is that the GOP just doesn't seem to have a clue:  women, minorities, immigration, social welfare programs, the environment, national health care, education, the economy, gun control, taxes--you name it: everything that is important to the average American, today's average American, the GOP is not in sync with, does not have a clue how the average American sees things.  LOL Too bad for them.



You are right, the GOP is not in sync with taking hard earned cash from those that earned it and giving it to those that did not.
And you are also correct that now the average American believes that other taxpayers should pay a portion of their health insurance.
Too bad for the average producer who is getting fucked by the growing moocher class.


----------



## JakeStarkey

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really Jake, it just means you have to get off your ass and try harder instead of looking to depend on that unemployment extension. As for Social Security, I can use that money that comes out of my check to build and set aside a better retirement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admit that it is you who is on assistance, son, not me.  I have worked every day of my life from fifteen at something until the day I retired last December.
> 
> I made my way.
> 
> You should try it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In case you've recently developed Alzheimer's at your age Jake, I wasn't the one found trying to DEFEND government assistance, I'd rather earn my own way than sit and have to depend on the government to support me.
Click to expand...


Then get off assistance and get to work.  Sheesh.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Gadawag, your post above is why you are out of touch with American votes: your post is not true and they know it, and they won't be demonized by someone like you.


----------



## ScienceRocks

One of the core strengths of the gop was defense. There's a few threads posted tonight showing that they want weakness.

You need to understand that  there's a good reason that LIBERTRIANS are only 10% of the voters in this country. They can't win shit and Ron paul only winning -5% each time proves that to be so fucking true.

Republicans are jumping the shark!


----------



## Gadawg73

JakeStarkey said:


> Gadawag, your post above is why you are out of touch with American votes: your post is not true and they know it, and they won't be demonized by someone like you.



I am not a candidate for anything and could care less what the voters think of me.
Everything I stated is true and you know it.


----------



## Gadawg73

GOP has it stuck on stupid on the gay boogeyman issue, abortion, immigration and some other social issues but they have it 100% right on fiscal conservatism.
Anyone that has a brain knows that we spend way too much money and have grown a large dependent moocher class. If any of you do not know someone on social security disability that has nothing wrong with them then you do not get out much. SNAP was supposed to be  SUPPLEMENTAL program and we now have families totally dependent on it. Bastard kids are now born into some communities at 75% and these poor kids are destined to a life of poverty and you folks blame Republicans for that?
Heads in the sand. The war on poverty and the great society are a massive government social engineering failure. Poor families are worse off now than before it started 50 years ago. A clear cycle of  government dependence and a growing parasitic moocher class.


----------



## JoeB131

Neotrotsky said:


> Speaking of troll like behavior
> How is the former Republican theme
> working out for you?
> 
> You know the 'concern troll' thing is so 90's
> 
> I could post back to you
> but you might go off in a huff, again.
> 
> Are you really a male poster,  because that
> behavior is so effeminate



Oh, not having to stand up for the mean-spirited shit that is being said by the GOP these days ("Poor people deserve crappy health care because....ummm... "Freedom"!") is working out for me just fine, thanks.  

But apparently, you still can't read a graph, where the point where poverty started going up again is when your boy Reagan destroyed the middle class.


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> GOP has it stuck on stupid on the gay boogeyman issue, abortion, immigration and some other social issues but they have it 100% right on fiscal conservatism.
> Anyone that has a brain knows that we spend way too much money and have grown a large dependent moocher class. If any of you do not know someone on social security disability that has nothing wrong with them then you do not get out much. SNAP was supposed to be  SUPPLEMENTAL program and we now have families totally dependent on it. Bastard kids are now born into some communities at 75% and these poor kids are destined to a life of poverty and you folks blame Republicans for that?
> Heads in the sand. The war on poverty and the great society are a massive government social engineering failure. Poor families are worse off now than before it started 50 years ago. A clear cycle of  government dependence and a growing parasitic moocher class.



But here's what you don't get. 

The reason why we have all these "moochers' is because through a combination of offshoring, union-busting, right to work, at-will employment, and so on, the middle class jobs that used to make the working class self-reliant have largely disappeared. 

You guys did this to yourselves, and now you are whining about it.

The only thing that kept you from total socialism is that you've been able to get some of the "moochers" upset about abortion and gay rights and other bullshit that doesn't really matter.


----------



## rightwinger

Gadawg73 said:


> GOP has it stuck on stupid on the gay boogeyman issue, abortion, immigration and some other social issues but they have it 100% right on fiscal conservatism.
> Anyone that has a brain knows that we spend way too much money and have grown a large dependent moocher class. If any of you do not know someone on social security disability that has nothing wrong with them then you do not get out much. SNAP was supposed to be  SUPPLEMENTAL program and we now have families totally dependent on it. Bastard kids are now born into some communities at 75% and these poor kids are destined to a life of poverty and you folks blame Republicans for that?
> Heads in the sand. The war on poverty and the great society are a massive government social engineering failure. Poor families are worse off now than before it started 50 years ago. A clear cycle of  government dependence and a growing parasitic moocher class.



Very true. And those hard nosed fiscal conservatives do great until the first time they are asked about abortion, gays or guns

Can't lay off that third rail


----------



## Gadawg73

JoeB131 said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of troll like behavior
> How is the former Republican theme
> working out for you?
> 
> You know the 'concern troll' thing is so 90's
> 
> I could post back to you
> but you might go off in a huff, again.
> 
> Are you really a male poster,  because that
> behavior is so effeminate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, not having to stand up for the mean-spirited shit that is being said by the GOP these days ("Poor people deserve crappy health care because....ummm... "Freedom"!") is working out for me just fine, thanks.
> 
> But apparently, you still can't read a graph, where the point where poverty started going up again is when your boy Reagan destroyed the middle class.
Click to expand...


"Republicans want to see children starve"
"Republicans support and want dirty air and water"
"Republicans hate women and children"
"Republicans are racists" when their leading candidate was a black man for President
"Republicans are Nazis"
None of that is "mean spirited".


----------



## Gadawg73

Many of the middle class destroyed themselves believing that in a modern day world economy they can still make 65K a year with a 12K benefit package with a high school education and little to no skills other than what someone else taught them and told them to do.


----------



## Gadawg73

rightwinger said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> GOP has it stuck on stupid on the gay boogeyman issue, abortion, immigration and some other social issues but they have it 100% right on fiscal conservatism.
> Anyone that has a brain knows that we spend way too much money and have grown a large dependent moocher class. If any of you do not know someone on social security disability that has nothing wrong with them then you do not get out much. SNAP was supposed to be  SUPPLEMENTAL program and we now have families totally dependent on it. Bastard kids are now born into some communities at 75% and these poor kids are destined to a life of poverty and you folks blame Republicans for that?
> Heads in the sand. The war on poverty and the great society are a massive government social engineering failure. Poor families are worse off now than before it started 50 years ago. A clear cycle of  government dependence and a growing parasitic moocher class.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very true. And those hard nosed fiscal conservatives do great until the first time they are asked about abortion, gays or guns
> 
> Can't lay off that third rail
Click to expand...


This hard nosed fiscal conservative and all the ones I know focus on the money and not other folk's private lives. In fact I know many gay and lesbian fiscal conservatives.


----------



## Gadawg73

Woman with 5 kids on welfare with no father in the house.
How is that the fault of Republicans?


----------



## JakeStarkey

Gadawg73 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawag, your post above is why you are out of touch with American votes: your post is not true and they know it, and they won't be demonized by someone like you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not a candidate for anything and could care less what the voters think of me.
> Everything I stated is true and you know it.
Click to expand...


You are in error, period.  American voters know that your type of thinking is wrong and won't elect candidates like that.

Tis what tis.


----------



## Gadawg73

JakeStarkey said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawag, your post above is why you are out of touch with American votes: your post is not true and they know it, and they won't be demonized by someone like you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not a candidate for anything and could care less what the voters think of me.
> Everything I stated is true and you know it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are in error, period.  American voters know that your type of thinking is wrong and won't elect candidates like that.
> 
> Tis what tis.
Click to expand...


Correct, you can not fix stupid as stupid people are like weeds, they are everywhere.
Do not care for Rush Limbaugh but he is right on one thing. Most voters these days are low information voters and both parties have them. Add that into the voter that votes for who will give them the most money and we have the government we deserve.
Subsidizing health insurance for folks that make 70K a year with tax payer money is outrageous. Go look it up my boy, this is all fact.


----------



## rightwinger

Gadawg73 said:


> Woman with 5 kids on welfare with no father in the house.
> How is that the fault of Republicans?



I blame the kids

Let a couple of them die and she will stop having them. Only way she will learn


----------



## rightwinger

Gadawg73 said:


> Many of the middle class destroyed themselves believing that in a modern day world economy they can still make 65K a year with a 12K benefit package with a high school education and little to no skills other than what someone else taught them and told them to do.



The sad part is that you used to be able to get yourself a nice union job with benefits that you could supprt your family on

That is long gone


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

JakeStarkey said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> The bottom line is that the GOP just doesn't seem to have a clue:  women, minorities, immigration, social welfare programs, the environment, national health care, education, the economy, gun control, taxes--you name it: everything that is important to the average American, today's average American, the GOP is not in sync with, does not have a clue how the average American sees things.  LOL Too bad for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are right, the GOP is not in sync with taking hard earned cash from those that earned it and giving it to those that did not.
> And you are also correct that now the average American believes that other taxpayers should pay a portion of their health insurance.
> Too bad for the average producer who is getting fucked by the growing moocher class.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gadawag, your post above is why you are out of touch with American votes: your post is not true and they know it, and they won't be demonized by someone like you.
Click to expand...


Only to the uninformed Jake, 
.... or those wandering "sheep" who rely on their government to become the provider of substance like any other dependent in need of acquiring another quick "fix".



> "I hear politicians talking about values in an election year. I hear a lot about that. Let me tell you about values. Hard work, personal responsibility - those are values. But looking out for one another. That's a value. The idea that we're all in this together. I am my brother's keeper. I am my sister's keeper. That's a value."
> 
> "When you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."
> 
> *"... the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth and the more basic issues of political and economic justice in this society, and to that extent, as radical as, I think, people try to characterize the Warren court, it wasn't that radical; it didn't break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the Founding Fathers and the Constitution.... *One of the, I think, tragedies of the civil rights movement was because the civil rights movement became so court focused, I think, *there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributive change, and in some ways, we still suffer from that. You can craft theoretical justification for it legally, and any three of us sitting here could come up with a rationale for bringing about economic change through the courts."*
> 
> *- Barrack Obama*




SOURCES:
Obama: 'Theoretically' OK for Courts to Redistribute Wealth - Capital Commerce (usnews.com)

Articles: Obama Misquotes Bible on Wealth Redistribution


With regard to ACA otherwise known as Obamacare. Those who are among the poor who can't afford insurance, the Federal Government can directly pay for their health care premiums as well as costs associated with those out-of-pocket expenses. [SOURCE: Health Care Reform Questions: 10 Most Asked Questions | Kaiser Permanente ]

Who do you honestly think pays for those costs, so the poor can have their health coverage? It's really not all difficult to figure out Jake for those who look beyond the freebies, to realize there is a cost behind all these government dependent give aways.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

JoeB131 said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of troll like behavior
> How is the former Republican theme
> working out for you?
> 
> You know the 'concern troll' thing is so 90's
> 
> I could post back to you
> but you might go off in a huff, again.
> 
> Are you really a male poster,  because that
> behavior is so effeminate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, not having to stand up for the mean-spirited shit that is being said by the GOP these days ("Poor people deserve crappy health care because....ummm... "Freedom"!") is working out for me just fine, thanks.
> 
> But apparently, you still can't read a graph, where the point where poverty started going up again is when your boy Reagan destroyed the middle class.
Click to expand...



When has there ever been any progress with the war on poverty with respect to people becoming productive "working" members of society, instead of merely stabilizing the issue towards mere dependency on government as their constant source of provision? What progress towards their own ability to provide for themselves and wean off of these government provisions?


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

JoeB131 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> GOP has it stuck on stupid on the gay boogeyman issue, abortion, immigration and some other social issues but they have it 100% right on fiscal conservatism.
> Anyone that has a brain knows that we spend way too much money and have grown a large dependent moocher class. If any of you do not know someone on social security disability that has nothing wrong with them then you do not get out much. SNAP was supposed to be  SUPPLEMENTAL program and we now have families totally dependent on it. Bastard kids are now born into some communities at 75% and these poor kids are destined to a life of poverty and you folks blame Republicans for that?
> Heads in the sand. The war on poverty and the great society are a massive government social engineering failure. Poor families are worse off now than before it started 50 years ago. A clear cycle of  government dependence and a growing parasitic moocher class.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But here's what you don't get.
> 
> The reason why we have all these "moochers' is because through a combination of offshoring, union-busting, right to work, at-will employment, and so on, the middle class jobs that used to make the working class self-reliant have largely disappeared.
> 
> You guys did this to yourselves, and now you are whining about it.
> 
> The only thing that kept you from total socialism is that you've been able to get some of the "moochers" upset about abortion and gay rights and other bullshit that doesn't really matter.
Click to expand...


Actually whenever I drive through the city, I can find plenty of our young in impoverished neighborhoods wandering the streets refusing the free public education that has been given to them. Some are from single parent families from broken homes due to our changing society, others seem to seek the quick rewards and addictions of substance abuse as it's quite apparent quite a few do it I themselves through their OWN decisions and choices they make. Looking to find blame through actions that don't favor liberal democrats, such as  unions busting and right-to-work, is merely an excuse of convenience.


----------



## Gadawg73

rightwinger said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Woman with 5 kids on welfare with no father in the house.
> How is that the fault of Republicans?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I blame the kids
> 
> Let a couple of them die and she will stop having them. Only way she will learn
Click to expand...


While your head is in the sand.
Until we end the spiral upwards of rewarding women with children and no father, or in many cases fathers, the figures show within another generation the majority of children will live in poverty in this country.
And why? Instead of giving them structure in their lives as how to manage their expenses, how to balance a check book, how to make a meal plan, how to find public transportation to get where she can help herself, how to work a computer, how to make a house budget, how to teach her kids to read at home, how to teach her kids how to do basic math (30% of inner city kids pass the basic addition and subtraction in 3rd grade, parents fault), and most importantly DO NOT HAVE MORE KIDS because you can not feed the ones you have what do we do? We tell them 'FUCK YOU, go down to the government office and they will help you. I am too busy. But only expect a check or a card and NO HELP WHATSOEVER.
Of course it is easier and chic to blame others that want solutions to the problems, not the politically correct symptoms.


----------



## Gadawg73

I played a lot and coached many years of rec football. Within a few practices I could tell you which boys were in single parent households. And these kids were from middle class families and they still had problems. And I had many from very poor single mother households where the mother was totally irresponsible. 
So what do we do to "feed the hungry kids"?
Instead of getting out and all of us feeding them we tax and have government send this irresponsible woman a check or a card at her discretion.
This country is becoming a nation of village idiots.


----------



## rightwinger

Gadawg73 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Woman with 5 kids on welfare with no father in the house.
> How is that the fault of Republicans?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I blame the kids
> 
> Let a couple of them die and she will stop having them. Only way she will learn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While your head is in the sand.
> Until we end the spiral upwards of rewarding women with children and no father, or in many cases fathers, the figures show within another generation the majority of children will live in poverty in this country.
> And why? Instead of giving them structure in their lives as how to manage their expenses, how to balance a check book, how to make a meal plan, how to find public transportation to get where she can help herself, how to work a computer, how to make a house budget, how to teach her kids to read at home, how to teach her kids how to do basic math (30% of inner city kids pass the basic addition and subtraction in 3rd grade, parents fault), and most importantly DO NOT HAVE MORE KIDS because you can not feed the ones you have what do we do? We tell them 'FUCK YOU, go down to the government office and they will help you. I am too busy. But only expect a check or a card and NO HELP WHATSOEVER.
> Of course it is easier and chic to blame others that want solutions to the problems, not the politically correct symptoms.
Click to expand...


I am fully in favor of the nuclear family, but ho do we enforce it?  Fathers are forced to pay child support when they can be found. What are you going to do to a mother who can't keep her legs closed?


----------



## Unkotare

rightwinger said:


> I am fully in favor of the nuclear family, but ho do we enforce it?  Fathers are forced to pay child support when they can be found. What are you going to do to a mother who can't keep her legs closed?




You liberals do tend to think of everything in terms of forcing people to do things, don't you?


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> [qu
> 
> "Republicans want to see children starve"
> "Republicans support and want dirty air and water"
> "Republicans hate women and children"
> "Republicans are racists" when their leading candidate was a black man for President
> "Republicans are Nazis"
> None of that is "mean spirited".



No, unfortunately, it's fairly accurate.

Now their used to be a time when Republicans offered alternative ways to get to desirable goals like Kids not Starving and keeping the air clean.  Fuck, Nixon was the guy who started the EPA, for C'Thulhu's sake.    

Those days are over.  They've become so entrenched in getting the old white hater to vote against his own economic interest while the rich laugh all the way to the bank.


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> Woman with 5 kids on welfare with no father in the house.
> How is that the fault of Republicans?



So what is your "republican solution"? 

"Let's cut their food stamps! that'll show them!"


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

Unkotare said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am fully in favor of the nuclear family, but ho do we enforce it?  Fathers are forced to pay child support when they can be found. What are you going to do to a mother who can't keep her legs closed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You liberals do tend to think of everything in terms of forcing people to do things, don't you?
Click to expand...


No, they just correctly understand and anticipate the conservative mindset.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

JoeB131 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Woman with 5 kids on welfare with no father in the house.
> How is that the fault of Republicans?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what is your "republican solution"?
> 
> "Let's cut their food stamps! that'll show them!"
Click to expand...

In essence, yes. 

And the issue isnt who is at fault because a woman with 5 kids is on welfare with no father in the house; the issue is the republican propensity to exact punitive measures against such a woman, like cutting SNAP benefits, as opposed to understanding that this family is only a symptom of a much larger problem, and the rights refusal to address the root cause of that problem. 

And the root of the problem isnt welfare or laziness.


----------



## Iceman

Republicans don't need the Hispanic vote, this is a myth. If they focused on supporting policies in the interests of their white middle/working class base(ie. immigration reduction/moratorium, ending free trade, opposing bailouts, non-interventionist foreign policy, real tax cuts etc) they could win multiple elections going into the future. Even if demographics shift towards a larger non-white population with amnesty granted, Republicans can win with just 65% of the White vote, no increase in non-white vote needed through 2024. It would take far more of a shift in the Hispanic vote to guarantee republican victory than shift in the white vote for Republican Victory. Of course Republicans are interested in winning elections or representing their constituents, so they will continue to lose.

I can't post a link yet, but look up the survey done by Nate Silver the New York Times forecasting demographic trends and corresponding electoral results to confirm my information.


----------



## ScienceRocks

My solution is education reform...17th sucks, try for first  Make it easier to get the skills needed to advance.


----------



## JoeB131

Iceman said:


> Republicans don't need the Hispanic vote, this is a myth. If they focused on supporting policies in the interests of their white middle/working class base(ie. immigration reduction/moratorium, ending free trade, opposing bailouts, non-interventionist foreign policy, real tax cuts etc) they could win multiple elections going into the future. Even if demographics shift towards a larger non-white population with amnesty granted, Republicans can win with just 65% of the White vote, no increase in non-white vote needed through 2024. It would take far more of a shift in the Hispanic vote to guarantee republican victory than shift in the white vote for Republican Victory. Of course Republicans are interested in winning elections or representing their constituents, so they will continue to lose.
> 
> I can't post a link yet, but look up the survey done by Nate Silver the New York Times forecasting demographic trends and corresponding electoral results to confirm my information.



Getting 65% of the White Vote is a statistical impossibility.  

Bush got 54% of the White vote in 2000
Bush got 58% of the White vote in 2004
McCain got 55% of the white vote in 2008
Romney got 59% of the White vote in 2012. 

The reason why Bush won in 2004. (He didn't in 2000, sorry. that was stolen) was because he was smart enough to do outreach.  He got 11% of the black vote and 44% of the Latino vote.  

Keep in mind, next time, the Democrats are likely to nominate a white person. That means that anti-Obama racism that animated Romney's campaign like a zombie won't be there next time.  

If the GOP wants to win, it has to stop with the racial bullshit and reach out to minorities. 

Period.


----------



## Gadawg73

JoeB131 said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans don't need the Hispanic vote, this is a myth. If they focused on supporting policies in the interests of their white middle/working class base(ie. immigration reduction/moratorium, ending free trade, opposing bailouts, non-interventionist foreign policy, real tax cuts etc) they could win multiple elections going into the future. Even if demographics shift towards a larger non-white population with amnesty granted, Republicans can win with just 65% of the White vote, no increase in non-white vote needed through 2024. It would take far more of a shift in the Hispanic vote to guarantee republican victory than shift in the white vote for Republican Victory. Of course Republicans are interested in winning elections or representing their constituents, so they will continue to lose.
> 
> I can't post a link yet, but look up the survey done by Nate Silver the New York Times forecasting demographic trends and corresponding electoral results to confirm my information.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Getting 65% of the White Vote is a statistical impossibility.
> 
> Bush got 54% of the White vote in 2000
> Bush got 58% of the White vote in 2004
> McCain got 55% of the white vote in 2008
> Romney got 59% of the White vote in 2012.
> 
> The reason why Bush won in 2004. (He didn't in 2000, sorry. that was stolen) was because he was smart enough to do outreach.  He got 11% of the black vote and 44% of the Latino vote.
> 
> Keep in mind, next time, the Democrats are likely to nominate a white person. That means that anti-Obama racism that animated Romney's campaign like a zombie won't be there next time.
> 
> If the GOP wants to win, it has to stop with the racial bullshit and reach out to minorities.
> 
> Period.
Click to expand...


Show me any racists tactics, statements, inferences or anything Romney did that was racially motivated in the election.
Where is it or was that just another comment in a long line of them you took out of your ass.


----------



## Gadawg73

So whites that vote for a white guy that is a Republican when the Democratic candidate is half white and half black are racists.
Got it.


----------



## Gadawg73

Matthew said:


> My solution is education reform...17th sucks, try for first  Make it easier to get the skills needed to advance.



How do you making putting in the hours necessary to master the math and reading skills any easier?
If anything we need to make it harder as it is too easy now.


----------



## LTCArmyRet

ron4342 ron4342 is offline 
Registered User
Member #35790

*It is interesting to note that President Obama has deported more people to Mexico than any other president. *

Yes, there has been a huge increase in the number of deportations of Mexicans during the past 12 years.  I would like to point out how your blind credit really does belong to Oduma and Holden.  

First, answer this question, why did the deportations increase?  Could it be from the 10 fold increase of those Mexicans fleeing their drug war ravaged country to get to somewhere a bit more safe?   A drug war exacerbated by the Oduma administrations ILLEGAL fast and furious arms deals that put deadlier weapons in the hands of those killing thousands in Mexico?

Yes, it is Odumas fault, EVERY bit of it.


----------



## Mertex

LTCArmyRet said:


> ron4342 ron4342 is offline
> Registered User
> Member #35790
> 
> *It is interesting to note that President Obama has deported more people to Mexico than any other president. *
> 
> Yes, there has been a huge increase in the number of deportations of Mexicans during the past 12 years.  I would like to point out how your blind credit really does belong to Oduma and Holden.
> 
> First, answer this question, why did the deportations increase?  Could it be from the 10 fold increase of those Mexicans fleeing their drug war ravaged country to get to somewhere a bit more safe?   A drug war exacerbated by the Oduma administrations ILLEGAL fast and furious arms deals that put deadlier weapons in the hands of those killing thousands in Mexico?
> 
> Yes, it is Odumas fault, EVERY bit of it.



Yes, you always have a reason as to why it isn't Obama that deserves the credit.  We know, it was Bush that killed OBL, and it will be the Republicans that are responsible for Obamacare once it is up and running smoothly and everyone (including Republicans) like it!


----------



## rightwinger

LTCArmyRet said:


> ron4342 ron4342 is offline
> Registered User
> Member #35790
> 
> *It is interesting to note that President Obama has deported more people to Mexico than any other president. *
> 
> Yes, there has been a huge increase in the number of deportations of Mexicans during the past 12 years.  I would like to point out how your blind credit really does belong to Oduma and Holden.
> 
> First, answer this question, why did the deportations increase?  Could it be from the 10 fold increase of those Mexicans fleeing their drug war ravaged country to get to somewhere a bit more safe?   A drug war exacerbated by the Oduma administrations ILLEGAL fast and furious arms deals that put deadlier weapons in the hands of those killing thousands in Mexico?
> 
> Yes, it is Odumas fault, EVERY bit of it.



Border crossings were impacted by Fast and Furious?

Someone is full of himself....or full of something else


----------



## j-mac

rightwinger said:


> Border crossings were impacted by Fast and Furious?



Common sense would dictate that the answer would be yes to a degree.


----------



## rightwinger

j-mac said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Border crossings were impacted by Fast and Furious?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Common sense would dictate that the answer would be yes to a degree.
Click to expand...


----------



## Iceman

JoeB131 said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans don't need the Hispanic vote, this is a myth. If they focused on supporting policies in the interests of their white middle/working class base(ie. immigration reduction/moratorium, ending free trade, opposing bailouts, non-interventionist foreign policy, real tax cuts etc) they could win multiple elections going into the future. Even if demographics shift towards a larger non-white population with amnesty granted, Republicans can win with just 65% of the White vote, no increase in non-white vote needed through 2024. It would take far more of a shift in the Hispanic vote to guarantee republican victory than shift in the white vote for Republican Victory. Of course Republicans are interested in winning elections or representing their constituents, so they will continue to lose.
> 
> I can't post a link yet, but look up the survey done by Nate Silver the New York Times forecasting demographic trends and corresponding electoral results to confirm my information.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Getting 65% of the White Vote is a statistical impossibility.
> 
> Bush got 54% of the White vote in 2000
> Bush got 58% of the White vote in 2004
> McCain got 55% of the white vote in 2008
> Romney got 59% of the White vote in 2012.
> 
> The reason why Bush won in 2004. (He didn't in 2000, sorry. that was stolen) was because he was smart enough to do outreach.  He got 11% of the black vote and 44% of the Latino vote.
> 
> Keep in mind, next time, the Democrats are likely to nominate a white person. That means that anti-Obama racism that animated Romney's campaign like a zombie won't be there next time.
> 
> If the GOP wants to win, it has to stop with the racial bullshit and reach out to minorities.
> 
> Period.
Click to expand...


For the next presidential election of 2016, Republicans would have to lock up 74% of the Latino vote to win the election. It is far more realistic they win 5 more percent of the white vote considering the disenfranchisement of the white working class by Democrats.

I am not a Republican, but if they want to win elections, they should focus on supporting right wing populist policies to increase their share of the white vote, and doing whatever they can to preserve the white majority(aka their constituents). This would be the smart move. However, the money that controls the Republican party and most of the politicians in the party wants cheap labor. The Democrats want to votes, so together, the powers that be of both parties want mass third world immigration to continue into the US.


----------



## OODA_Loop

Obama changed the definition of deportation to include all turned back at the border.

Prior a deportation was counted when one who had made it through or across the border illegally and was inside the US and captured.


----------



## Gadawg73

rightwinger said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many of the middle class destroyed themselves believing that in a modern day world economy they can still make 65K a year with a 12K benefit package with a high school education and little to no skills other than what someone else taught them and told them to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The sad part is that you used to be able to get yourself a nice union job with benefits that you could supprt your family on
> 
> That is long gone
Click to expand...


Called competition and the free market a and automation.
Did you also feel bad for horse buggy manufacturers who all lost their jobs when the automobile was invented?
You are the one that is at fault for union members losing their jobs and benefits.
YOUR demand for a cheaper product. Look at the shoes on your feet.
Why pay a union worker for a job someone with medium skills 65K a year when someone else can do the same job for $30 and half the benefits as in this country over demand on the health care system has run the prices through the roof.
I am glad those days are long gone. It created a stagnant mentality on advancing skills to the information age.


----------



## Gadawg73

"GOP has to stop the racial bullshit"
The Republicans leading candidate was a black man and the only race baiting going on would be all Democrats.
Their latest BS is their claim that a black kid in Lowndes county was somehow murdered.
Their problem is there is no honkey to blame it on but they are feverishly looking for a white person to blame it on.


----------



## LTCArmyRet

rightwinger said:


> LTCArmyRet said:
> 
> 
> 
> ron4342 ron4342 is offline
> Registered User
> Member #35790
> 
> *It is interesting to note that President Obama has deported more people to Mexico than any other president. *
> 
> Yes, there has been a huge increase in the number of deportations of Mexicans during the past 12 years.  I would like to point out how your blind credit really does belong to Oduma and Holden.
> 
> First, answer this question, why did the deportations increase?  Could it be from the 10 fold increase of those Mexicans fleeing their drug war ravaged country to get to somewhere a bit more safe?   A drug war exacerbated by the Oduma administrations ILLEGAL fast and furious arms deals that put deadlier weapons in the hands of those killing thousands in Mexico?
> 
> Yes, it is Odumas fault, EVERY bit of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Border crossings were impacted by Fast and Furious?
> 
> Someone is full of himself....or full of something else
Click to expand...


All that sewer work really impacted your ability to see past the blatantly obvious, huh?


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> [
> 
> Called competition and the free market a and automation.
> Did you also feel bad for horse buggy manufacturers who all lost their jobs when the automobile was invented?
> You are the one that is at fault for union members losing their jobs and benefits.
> YOUR demand for a cheaper product. Look at the shoes on your feet.
> Why pay a union worker for a job someone with medium skills 65K a year when someone else can do the same job for $30 and half the benefits as in this country over demand on the health care system has run the prices through the roof.
> I am glad those days are long gone. It created a stagnant mentality on advancing skills to the information age.



Sorry, guy, I don't think I am getting better service when I am shuffled through sixteen recordings before I get to talk to Pradip in India who doesn't understand what I am saying. 

You might consider this progress, I don't.  

On a similar note, why pay a CEO $83,000,000 to run a company when there is an equally talented guy who could run it for $400,000, which is what companies in the rest of the industrialized world do.


----------



## Mertex

JoeB131 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> Called competition and the free market a and automation.
> Did you also feel bad for horse buggy manufacturers who all lost their jobs when the automobile was invented?
> You are the one that is at fault for union members losing their jobs and benefits.
> YOUR demand for a cheaper product. Look at the shoes on your feet.
> Why pay a union worker for a job someone with medium skills 65K a year when someone else can do the same job for $30 and half the benefits as in this country over demand on the health care system has run the prices through the roof.
> I am glad those days are long gone. It created a stagnant mentality on advancing skills to the information age.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, guy, I don't think I am getting better service when I am shuffled through sixteen recordings before I get to talk to Pradip in India who doesn't understand what I am saying.
> 
> You might consider this progress, I don't.
> 
> On a similar note, why pay a CEO $83,000,000 to run a company when there is an equally talented guy who could run it for $400,000, which is what companies in the rest of the industrialized world do.
Click to expand...


But, but, don't you realize that someday some of that $83 million will trickle down to me?.....


----------



## BDBoop

JoeB131 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> Called competition and the free market a and automation.
> Did you also feel bad for horse buggy manufacturers who all lost their jobs when the automobile was invented?
> You are the one that is at fault for union members losing their jobs and benefits.
> YOUR demand for a cheaper product. Look at the shoes on your feet.
> Why pay a union worker for a job someone with medium skills 65K a year when someone else can do the same job for $30 and half the benefits as in this country over demand on the health care system has run the prices through the roof.
> I am glad those days are long gone. It created a stagnant mentality on advancing skills to the information age.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, guy, I don't think I am getting better service when I am shuffled through sixteen recordings before I get to talk to Pradip in India who doesn't understand what I am saying.
> 
> You might consider this progress, I don't.
> 
> On a similar note, why pay a CEO $83,000,000 to run a company when there is an equally talented guy who could run it for $400,000, which is what companies in the rest of the industrialized world do.
Click to expand...


Exactly. If I have to explain to someone in customer service that I want to speak to a person who can speak and comprehend English as clearly and concisely as I can, then somebody done dropped the ball in the name of their bottom line.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

Gadawg73 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep in mind, next time, the Democrats are likely to nominate a white person. That means that anti-Obama racism that animated Romney's campaign like a zombie won't be there next time.
> 
> If the GOP wants to win, it has to stop with the racial bullshit and reach out to minorities.
> 
> Period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show me any racists tactics, statements, inferences or anything Romney did that was racially motivated in the election.
> Where is it or was that just another comment in a long line of them you took out of your ass.
Click to expand...


You got to understand the liberal mindset. Anything that doesn't support their view of more big government involvement and dependency, they will equate to racism. Rather it's deemed more acceptable to rely on government than to boast the success of individual achievement, personal decisions, accountability, and determination to persevere through your own obstacles in life. We have raised a generation of excuses to replace individual achievement, entertained through the coaxing rhetoric that the government can supply all your needs. When was the last time the Democrats actually promoted individuals with attaining the American dream, instead of the constant rhetoric of punishing them as the problem for reaching it?


----------



## hunarcy

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> Actually whenever I drive through the city, I can find plenty of our young in impoverished neighborhoods wandering the streets refusing the free public education that has been given to them. Some are from single parent families from broken homes due to our changing society, others seem to seek the quick rewards and addictions of substance abuse as it's quite apparent quite a few do it I themselves through their OWN decisions and choices they make. Looking to find blame through actions that don't favor liberal democrats, such as  unions busting and right-to-work, is merely an excuse of convenience.



The Left will take absolutely NO responsibility for their actions that led to that situation, either.  They blame "offshoring"  as if their supporters in unions had nothing to do with making labor so expensive here that it was cheaper to pay shipping from across the oceans than manufacture here.  They completely reject the fact that their war on marriage CAUSED the breakdown of the nuclear family in poor neighborhoods.  And, they blame those who flee their high taxes for not being willing to stay in their jurisdictions to be bled dry.

Many on the Left are truly intellectually bankrupt and silly..


----------



## Gadawg73

JoeB131 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> Called competition and the free market a and automation.
> Did you also feel bad for horse buggy manufacturers who all lost their jobs when the automobile was invented?
> You are the one that is at fault for union members losing their jobs and benefits.
> YOUR demand for a cheaper product. Look at the shoes on your feet.
> Why pay a union worker for a job someone with medium skills 65K a year when someone else can do the same job for $30 and half the benefits as in this country over demand on the health care system has run the prices through the roof.
> I am glad those days are long gone. It created a stagnant mentality on advancing skills to the information age.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, guy, I don't think I am getting better service when I am shuffled through sixteen recordings before I get to talk to Pradip in India who doesn't understand what I am saying.
> 
> You might consider this progress, I don't.
> 
> On a similar note, why pay a CEO $83,000,000 to run a company when there is an equally talented guy who could run it for $400,000, which is what companies in the rest of the industrialized world do.
Click to expand...


Walk with your feet or do as I do. Had a 2 tire blowout 2 weeks ago in I-75 north at Lake City rest area on a Sunday. Called AARP road service and got an Indian dude. I asked where he was and he said India. Hung up and called back, same thing. Third call I got a girl in Texas I could understand.
Called using your brain and a little smarts which I do understand is not part of the union mentality.
You are not paying anyone 83 million a year and have nothing to do with that whatsoever unless you own stock in that company. Do not like it sell your stock.
Try and see how that works in the country that allegedly pays their CEO "$400,000" a year. Add in the stock options, real estate, perks and deferred compensation these people get, especially in Japan where an exclusive golf condo and membership can be ten million as real estate is scarce there.
Companies in the rest of the industrialized world do not pay their CEOs 400K a year. Great liberal talking points but average total compensation for German CEOs is 8 million a year plus stock options averaging 5-10 million, MORE than the cash payments to American CEOs as most of their pay is stock options.
Now do you understand that in most all stock option contracts if the stock does not go up then the CEO would not exercise his option because HE MAKES NO MONEY?
Called incentives, something Democrats only understand when they are offering them in the form of food stamps and other handouts for votes.


----------



## Gadawg73

Amazing that in most instances I WANT an Indian handling my customer service as they have far more technical sense than the Americans. 
Americans are 38th in the industrialized world in tech smarts.
Give me that hard working guy in India any day of the week over the American guy on the phone who is bitching about his hours, how many coffee breaks he gets a day, what his benefit package is and how he hates management because they make $1 more a hour than he does and they only have to work 10 hours more a week than him.


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> [quo
> 
> Walk with your feet or do as I do. Had a 2 tire blowout 2 weeks ago in I-75 north at Lake City rest area on a Sunday. Called AARP road service and got an Indian dude. I asked where he was and he said India. Hung up and called back, same thing. Third call I got a girl in Texas I could understand.
> Called using your brain and a little smarts which I do understand is not part of the union mentality.



No, the minute I hear Pradip on the other end, I cancel my service with that company. 







Gadawg73 said:


> You are not paying anyone 83 million a year and have nothing to do with that whatsoever unless you own stock in that company. Do not like it sell your stock.



Or pass common sense laws that control executive compensation and make the rich pay their fair share. 




> Try and see how that works in the country that allegedly pays their CEO "$400,000" a year. Add in the stock options, real estate, perks and deferred compensation these people get, especially in Japan where an exclusive golf condo and membership can be ten million as real estate is scarce there.



CEO of my company (British owned) makes only 600K a year.  Only in AMerica do we have this insanity.  




> Companies in the rest of the industrialized world do not pay their CEOs 400K a year. Great liberal talking points but average total compensation for German CEOs is 8 million a year plus stock options averaging 5-10 million, MORE than the cash payments to American CEOs as most of their pay is stock options.



Bullshit. This is a uniquely American stupidity.  



> Now do you understand that in most all stock option contracts if the stock does not go up then the CEO would not exercise his option because HE MAKES NO MONEY?
> Called incentives, something Democrats only understand when they are offering them in the form of food stamps and other handouts for votes.



Man, you spend a lot of time defending Greed.  I guess 2008 didn't happen in your world.


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> Amazing that in most instances I WANT an Indian handling my customer service as they have far more technical sense than the Americans.
> Americans are 38th in the industrialized world in tech smarts.
> Give me that hard working guy in India any day of the week over the American guy on the phone who is bitching about his hours, how many coffee breaks he gets a day, what his benefit package is and how he hates management because they make $1 more a hour than he does and they only have to work 10 hours more a week than him.



Of course you do.  You just LOOOOOOOOVE people who bend over and take it for the man.


----------



## Gadawg73

JoeB131 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> [quo
> 
> Walk with your feet or do as I do. Had a 2 tire blowout 2 weeks ago in I-75 north at Lake City rest area on a Sunday. Called AARP road service and got an Indian dude. I asked where he was and he said India. Hung up and called back, same thing. Third call I got a girl in Texas I could understand.
> Called using your brain and a little smarts which I do understand is not part of the union mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, the minute I hear Pradip on the other end, I cancel my service with that company.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are not paying anyone 83 million a year and have nothing to do with that whatsoever unless you own stock in that company. Do not like it sell your stock.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or pass common sense laws that control executive compensation and make the rich pay their fair share.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CEO of my company (British owned) makes only 600K a year.  Only in AMerica do we have this insanity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Companies in the rest of the industrialized world do not pay their CEOs 400K a year. Great liberal talking points but average total compensation for German CEOs is 8 million a year plus stock options averaging 5-10 million, MORE than the cash payments to American CEOs as most of their pay is stock options.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit. This is a uniquely American stupidity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now do you understand that in most all stock option contracts if the stock does not go up then the CEO would not exercise his option because HE MAKES NO MONEY?
> Called incentives, something Democrats only understand when they are offering them in the form of food stamps and other handouts for votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Man, you spend a lot of time defending Greed.  I guess 2008 didn't happen in your world.
Click to expand...


LOL, you want a law to force me to pay my people a certain amount?
You are crazy. This is a free market country.
Now go spend some time educating yourself on stock options and get back to us.


----------



## Gadawg73

2008 made me a lot of money.
Bought property up the road from where I live from a retiree in Florida who wanted out of it.
He was very happy and I am very happy. He bought that 5 acres in 1979 for 15K. He made over 125K off of selling it to me. He moved to Costa Rica with his wife in 2009
I stand to make close to 200K off of it as I have a contract on it now.
So who is greedy? Both of us?
Greed is good.


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> [
> 
> LOL, you want a law to force me to pay my people a certain amount?
> You are crazy. This is a free market country.
> Now go spend some time educating yourself on stock options and get back to us.



No, what's crazy is letting 1% steal 43% of the wealth.  

That's just fucking crazy. 

I mean this kind of Crazy..






"Hey, don't they know I'm one of the MAKERS!!!!"


----------



## Gadawg73

JoeB131 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> LOL, you want a law to force me to pay my people a certain amount?
> You are crazy. This is a free market country.
> Now go spend some time educating yourself on stock options and get back to us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, what's crazy is letting 1% steal 43% of the wealth.
> 
> That's just fucking crazy.
> 
> I mean this kind of Crazy..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Hey, don't they know I'm one of the MAKERS!!!!"
Click to expand...


And hopefully it will not be long before we have earned more than just 43% of the wealth.
But it will be harder than ever with the growth and support for the increasing numbers of the moocher class. 
But do not count me out. I work harder than you do and always will.


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> [
> 
> And hopefully it will not be long before we have earned more than just 43% of the wealth.
> But it will be harder than ever with the growth and support for the increasing numbers of the moocher class.
> But do not count me out. I work harder than you do and always will.



Guy, peaking into people's windows and getting into their business is not a worthy pursuit... 

Actually, pretty soon, we are going to reach a boiling point where the 1%ers aren't going to get away with it much longer.  

Then we go back to pure Keynesian economics, which work pretty well than the supply side waiting for the rich to trickle down on the rest of us. 

They're trickling down on us, all right. 

Seriously, fuck the rich.


----------



## Gadawg73

JoeB131 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> And hopefully it will not be long before we have earned more than just 43% of the wealth.
> But it will be harder than ever with the growth and support for the increasing numbers of the moocher class.
> But do not count me out. I work harder than you do and always will.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guy, peaking into people's windows and getting into their business is not a worthy pursuit...
> 
> Actually, pretty soon, we are going to reach a boiling point where the 1%ers aren't going to get away with it much longer.
> 
> Then we go back to pure Keynesian economics, which work pretty well than the supply side waiting for the rich to trickle down on the rest of us.
> 
> They're trickling down on us, all right.
> 
> Seriously, fuck the rich.
Click to expand...


LOL, you know that I don't do surveillance work.
I do major litigation fighting the insurance companies and corporations that you hate so much.
I am the guy that fights for the poor and helps them. 
You tell them to go fuck themselves and wait in a government line.
You hate me but always call me when you are crying about big bad corporations or insurance companies.
Thanks for the cash, I need more.


----------



## Gadawg73

The moocher class can not even feed themselves and Joe claims they are coming to get our shit.
Hilarious!!!


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> [
> 
> LOL, you know that I don't do surveillance work.
> I do major litigation fighting the insurance companies and corporations that you hate so much.
> I am the guy that fights for the poor and helps them.
> You tell them to go fuck themselves and wait in a government line.
> You hate me but always call me when you are crying about big bad corporations or insurance companies.
> Thanks for the cash, I need more.



I think you fail to understand the difference between a soldier and a mercernary... and why the latter is generally despised.


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> The moocher class can not even feed themselves and Joe claims they are coming to get our shit.
> Hilarious!!!



I'm curious who you think this "moocher class" is, exactly?


----------



## TemplarKormac

ron4342 said:


> After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there) and that if the republicans wanted to remain relevant they needed to change also. The recommendation was that the republican party needs to actively work toward bringing Hispanics into the party.
> They have a perfect chance to do that now but I fully expect that the republican party will once again shoot themselves in the foot. What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do. This places the republicans in a bind. Should they strongly support a sweeping immigration plan (similar to what Obama is offering) OR should they dig in their heels and refuse to accept any plan Obama offers just as they have done throughout the last five years.
> I am betting that the republicans will dig in their heels and refuse to offer a plan similar to Obama's. In other words, they will once again play the obstruction card and in the process slap the people who could help them win elections in the face. And then, after losing the Hispanic vote by a wide margin in 2014, they will once again scratch their heads and ask "Why did we lose? I don't understand."



The only reason Democrats will lose big in 2014:

Obamacare.


----------



## TemplarKormac

JoeB131 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The moocher class can not even feed themselves and Joe claims they are coming to get our shit.
> Hilarious!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious who you think this "moocher class" is, exactly?
Click to expand...


People who think there's such a thing as 'free and affordable healthcare.'


----------



## JoeB131

TemplarKormac said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The moocher class can not even feed themselves and Joe claims they are coming to get our shit.
> Hilarious!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious who you think this "moocher class" is, exactly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People who think there's such a thing as 'free and affordable healthcare.'
Click to expand...


You mean... 

Germans.
Japanese.
British
Canadians
Frenchmen
Italians?

Oh, snap.  All of those countries have some form of Universal Health Care.  Not only do they live longer, have lower infant mortality rates, and generally rate higher than us in most international surveys... 

But they also spend a LOWER amount of their GDP on Health care.  

Here's a helpful chart for you..


----------



## Nyvin

TemplarKormac said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The moocher class can not even feed themselves and Joe claims they are coming to get our shit.
> Hilarious!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious who you think this "moocher class" is, exactly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People who think there's such a thing as 'free and affordable healthcare.'
Click to expand...


Everyone else in the developed world has "free and affordable healthcare"


----------



## TemplarKormac

JoeB131 said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious who you think this "moocher class" is, exactly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People who think there's such a thing as 'free and affordable healthcare.'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean...
> 
> Germans.
> Japanese.
> British
> Canadians
> Frenchmen
> Italians?
> 
> Oh, snap.  All of those countries have some form of Universal Health Care.  Not only do they live longer, have lower infant mortality rates, and generally rate higher than us in most international surveys...
> 
> But they also spend a LOWER amount of their GDP on Health care.
> 
> Here's a helpful chart for you..
Click to expand...


Hmm, then tell me why it isn't working here? If we were to spend less of our GDP on healthcare, why are premiums expected to go up by 41%? Normally when people have a plan they already like they don't need to be ushered into another more expensive plan. 

Here's a helpful hint, we aren't Europe nor Asia, we're America, where we don't earn what we have off the backs of others. Nor do we reap benefits off the backs hard working people.

At any rate, I fail to see how 'free healthcare' is being provided to Americans via the ACA when your premiums are way higher than what you previously had before. I fail to see how a $1.2 trillion healthcare law is 'lowering GDP expenditures on healthcare' in America.

Provide me with definitive proof that this law is working as it should be. Do it. I dare you.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

Nyvin said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious who you think this "moocher class" is, exactly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People who think there's such a thing as 'free and affordable healthcare.'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everyone else in the developed world has "free and affordable healthcare"
Click to expand...


Well, its not free, and its affordable in that everyone has access to healthcare. 

But it is proof that conservatives are once again wrong, where the countries that have universal health care are thriving free market capitalist nations, some have had UHC for over a century and are among the most successful and powerful free market economies.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Nyvin said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious who you think this "moocher class" is, exactly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People who think there's such a thing as 'free and affordable healthcare.'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everyone else in the developed world has "free and affordable healthcare"
Click to expand...


Yeah, and? We aren't 'everyone else', are we? You can shove that eurocentrism of yours up your backside.


----------



## TemplarKormac

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Nyvin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> 
> People who think there's such a thing as 'free and affordable healthcare.'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone else in the developed world has "free and affordable healthcare"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, it&#8217;s not &#8216;free,&#8217; and it&#8217;s &#8216;affordable&#8217; in that everyone has access to healthcare.
> 
> But it is proof that conservatives are once again wrong, where the countries that have universal health care are thriving free market capitalist nations, some have had UHC for over a century and are among the most successful and powerful free market economies.
Click to expand...


Just because one 'has access' does not mean that such access does not come with a hefty price.  How can conservatives be wrong, when millions of people are being kicked off of their existing healthcare plans or being made to pay way more for this 'access' you speak of. They already had access, now no thanks to increasing premiums due to Obamacare, they don't. Who can afford it? Who can access it when it is so damned expensive?

Another thing, we have been one of the most successful capitalist economies in the free world without having the need for Universal Healthcare. So what makes you think having it will distinguish us from the rest of the world?


----------



## TemplarKormac

And this concludes Common Sense 101. Thank you for playing.


----------



## JakeStarkey

shakles continues to post unrelated matrial and continues to demonstrate he is a low information generally unaware voter.

The GOP can win big next IF it ignore the libertarian wing altogether and IF it follows through on today's policy of not financing candidates who are tied solidly to the TPM.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Social market democracy flourishes in Europe and, at times, here.

Libertarianism is a poor philosophy, because it relies on an unrealistic evaluation of human nature.

That is the same failure that undermined communism.


----------



## JoeB131

TemplarKormac said:


> [
> 
> Hmm, then tell me why it isn't working here? If we were to spend less of our GDP on healthcare, why are premiums expected to go up by 41%? Normally when people have a plan they already like they don't need to be ushered into another more expensive plan.
> 
> Here's a helpful hint, we aren't Europe nor Asia, we're America, where we don't earn what we have off the backs of others. Nor do we reap benefits off the backs hard working people.
> 
> At any rate, I fail to see how 'free healthcare' is being provided to Americans via the ACA when your premiums are way higher than what you previously had before. I fail to see how a $1.2 trillion healthcare law is 'lowering GDP expenditures on healthcare' in America.
> 
> *Provide me with definitive proof that this law is working as it should be. *Do it. I dare you.



A law that has been in place for less than a month, is not even being fully implemented? 

It doesn't matter if you "Like" your plan.  I loved my last job, until they fucked me over.  You like your parachute until you have to jump out of a plane with it and it doesn't open.  

Incidently, my premiums are exactly what they were last year under the ACA.  so are most people.


----------



## JoeB131

TemplarKormac said:


> [
> 
> Yeah, and? We aren't 'everyone else', are we? You can shove that eurocentrism of yours up your backside.



It strikes me that if someone has already done something and worked all teh bugs out, you go with what they did. 

Germany has had universal coverage- a form of private and public insurance that covers everyone - since the time of Otto von Bismarck.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

JoeB131 said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> Yeah, and? We aren't 'everyone else', are we? You can shove that eurocentrism of yours up your backside.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It strikes me that if someone has already done something and worked all teh bugs out, you go with what they did.
> 
> Germany has had universal coverage- a form of private and public insurance that covers everyone - since the time of Otto von Bismarck.
Click to expand...


looks like if it worked for you, you would move your ass their. Don't let the door hit your ass when you leave.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Actually that's a mirror you are talking to, bigrebnc, so take your own advice.


----------



## Gadawg73

JoeB131 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> LOL, you know that I don't do surveillance work.
> I do major litigation fighting the insurance companies and corporations that you hate so much.
> I am the guy that fights for the poor and helps them.
> You tell them to go fuck themselves and wait in a government line.
> You hate me but always call me when you are crying about big bad corporations or insurance companies.
> Thanks for the cash, I need more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you fail to understand the difference between a soldier and a mercernary... and why the latter is generally despised.
Click to expand...


This country was founded with the assistance of 30,000+ of mercenaries.
Called History 101 taught in 3rd grade.
I am sure you despised the revolution against the crown monarchy of England as you strike me as the Torrie type. 
You also need an elementary vocabulary lesson. Mercenaries are in armed conflict such as shooting wars.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

JakeStarkey said:


> Actually that's a mirror you are talking to, bigrebnc, so take your own advice.



Why don't you make me chicken shit.
Cock sucker that son of a bitch thinks those countries are so great why don't you and the bitch move there together.


----------



## JoeB131

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> Yeah, and? We aren't 'everyone else', are we? You can shove that eurocentrism of yours up your backside.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It strikes me that if someone has already done something and worked all teh bugs out, you go with what they did.
> 
> Germany has had universal coverage- a form of private and public insurance that covers everyone - since the time of Otto von Bismarck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> looks like if it worked for you, you would move your ass their. Don't let the door hit your ass when you leave.
Click to expand...


ONce again, we are going to fix this country, and you will thank us for it.


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> [quo
> 
> This country was founded with the assistance of 30,000+ of mercenaries.
> Called History 101 taught in 3rd grade.
> I am sure you despised the revolution against the crown monarchy of England as you strike me as the Torrie type.
> You also need an elementary vocabulary lesson. Mercenaries are in armed conflict such as shooting wars.



Well, let's look at that. 

The Founding Slave Rapists, who decided that all Men Are Created Equal didn't apply if you were black or red, established a society of the privilage of wealth.  

We seriously would be better off had they lost.  

The fact is, both sides hired mercenaries because no one was too keen on a needless war.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It strikes me that if someone has already done something and worked all teh bugs out, you go with what they did.
> 
> Germany has had universal coverage- a form of private and public insurance that covers everyone - since the time of Otto von Bismarck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> looks like if it worked for you, you would move your ass their. Don't let the door hit your ass when you leave.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ONce again, we are going to fix this country, and you will thank us for it.
Click to expand...


THIS country did not need to be fixed, now it does. You don't like it, and think we should be more like those other countries? MOVE YOUR GOD DAMN ASS TO ONE OF THEM.


----------



## JoeB131

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> looks like if it worked for you, you would move your ass their. Don't let the door hit your ass when you leave.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ONce again, we are going to fix this country, and you will thank us for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> THIS country did not need to be fixed, now it does. You don't like it, and think we should be more like those other countries? MOVE YOUR GOD DAMN ASS TO ONE OF THEM.
Click to expand...


Lowest life expectency in the INdustrialized World
Highest Infant mortality rate in the industrialized world
Highest spend per capita in the Industrialized world
62% of bankruptcies linked to medical crisis. 
46 million uninsured.
25 million underinsured.

Yes, it needed to be fixed, and if you guys weren't so busy sucking Koch, you'd realize it needed to be fixed.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ONce again, we are going to fix this country, and you will thank us for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THIS country did not need to be fixed, now it does. You don't like it, and think we should be more like those other countries? MOVE YOUR GOD DAMN ASS TO ONE OF THEM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lowest life expectency in the INdustrialized World
> Highest Infant mortality rate in the industrialized world
> Highest spend per capita in the Industrialized world
> 62% of bankruptcies linked to medical crisis.
> 46 million uninsured.
> 25 million underinsured.
> 
> Yes, it needed to be fixed, and if you guys weren't so busy sucking Koch, you'd realize it needed to be fixed.
Click to expand...


no it did not you want it move to where it's already in place.,  If you live in Chicago why can't you meet up with one of those gang wars cross fires?


----------



## JoeB131

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> THIS country did not need to be fixed, now it does. You don't like it, and think we should be more like those other countries? MOVE YOUR GOD DAMN ASS TO ONE OF THEM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lowest life expectency in the INdustrialized World
> Highest Infant mortality rate in the industrialized world
> Highest spend per capita in the Industrialized world
> 62% of bankruptcies linked to medical crisis.
> 46 million uninsured.
> 25 million underinsured.
> 
> Yes, it needed to be fixed, and if you guys weren't so busy sucking Koch, you'd realize it needed to be fixed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> no it did not you want it move to where it's already in place.,  If you live in Chicago why can't you meet up with one of those gang wars cross fires?
Click to expand...


Contradiction is not an argument. 

I listed a whole slew of problems with our current system.  We spend the most, we get the worst results.  

How is this not a problem we need to fix?


----------



## bigrebnc1775

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lowest life expectency in the INdustrialized World
> Highest Infant mortality rate in the industrialized world
> Highest spend per capita in the Industrialized world
> 62% of bankruptcies linked to medical crisis.
> 46 million uninsured.
> 25 million underinsured.
> 
> Yes, it needed to be fixed, and if you guys weren't so busy sucking Koch, you'd realize it needed to be fixed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no it did not you want it move to where it's already in place.,  If you live in Chicago why can't you meet up with one of those gang wars cross fires?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Contradiction is not an argument.
> 
> I listed a whole slew of problems with our current system.  We spend the most, we get the worst results.
> 
> How is this not a problem we need to fix?
Click to expand...


your problem list is bull shit and all if your fucked up mind.


----------



## JoeB131

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no it did not you want it move to where it's already in place.,  If you live in Chicago why can't you meet up with one of those gang wars cross fires?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contradiction is not an argument.
> 
> I listed a whole slew of problems with our current system.  We spend the most, we get the worst results.
> 
> How is this not a problem we need to fix?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> your problem list is bull shit and all if your fucked up mind.
Click to expand...


Gee, guy, I was really hoping to have you give me an intelligent answer, but I guess I was expecting too much of you.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Contradiction is not an argument.
> 
> I listed a whole slew of problems with our current system.  We spend the most, we get the worst results.
> 
> How is this not a problem we need to fix?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> your problem list is bull shit and all if your fucked up mind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gee, guy, I was really hoping to have you give me an intelligent answer, but I guess I was expecting too much of you.
Click to expand...


I was hoping you were intelligent enough to realize America didn't need to be fixed for freedom loving Americans. It need to be fixed for communist supporting pricks like you.


----------



## JoeB131

Yawn, guy. 

How is an insurance company pooling money to pay out claims any less communist than the government doing it?


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ONce again, we are going to fix this country, and you will thank us for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THIS country did not need to be fixed, now it does. You don't like it, and think we should be more like those other countries? MOVE YOUR GOD DAMN ASS TO ONE OF THEM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lowest life expectency in the INdustrialized World
> Highest Infant mortality rate in the industrialized world
> Highest spend per capita in the Industrialized world
> 62% of bankruptcies linked to medical crisis.
> 46 million uninsured.
> 25 million underinsured.
> 
> Yes, it needed to be fixed, and if you guys weren't so busy sucking Koch, you'd realize it needed to be fixed.
Click to expand...



You need to do some more research if you honestly believe that a government controlled health care system is a more viable option. National health care is NOT more cost effective, there is no evidence of that (on any level, to even include MASSCARE)



> *Mass Panel To Tackle Health Care Costs*
> Mass. Panel To Tackle Health Care Costs | Radio Boston
> 
> *Total Health Care spending will double from 2009 to 2020*
> 
> The federal law is modeled on this states health care law, which was passed in 2006. And heres what we know so far: just about everyone in the state has health insurance, but *costs have continued to rise. And in fact, were spending more per capita on health care than any other state in the nation.*
> 
> Under a health care cost containment law passed last year, medical expenses are not SUPPOSED to grow more than the states economy, pegged at 3.6 percent this year.





> The Supreme Court of Canada ruled Thursday that the Quebec government cannot prevent people from paying for private insurance for health-care procedures covered under medicare.
> 
> In a 4-3 decision, the panel of seven justices said *banning private insurance for a list of services ranging from MRI tests to cataract surgery was unconstitutional* under the Quebec Charter of Rights, *given that the public system has failed to guarantee patients access to those services in a timely way.*
> 
> CBC News - Top court strikes down Quebec private health-care ban





> In 2011, health care spending consumed 50 percent of revenues in Canadas two largest provinces, Ontario and Quebec.
> 
> By 2017, four more provinces  Saskatchewan, Alberta, British Columbia and New Brunswick  will spend half of their revenues on health care, according to the institute.
> 
> Total federal, provincial and territorial government health spending has grown by 8.1 percent annually, while the national GDP in Canada rose by only 6.7 percent during the same period.
> 
> In response to the rapidly rising costs, provincial governments have raised taxes and rationed care, increasing patient wait times.
> 
> Report: Canadian health care spending unsustainable | The Daily Caller





> *NHS rationing 'forcing patients to go private'*
> 
> NHS rationing 'forcing patients to go private' - Telegraph
> 
> By Stephen Adams, Medical Correspondent3:25PM BST 24 Sep 2012
> 
> More patients are going private because the NHS is increasingly cutting back on providing a range of treatments.
> 
> GPs believe the numbers of patients asking about paying for operations including cataract removal and joint replacements has increased markedly in the last year, according to a poll.





> *NHS charging and rationing 'may be needed'*
> 
> BBC News - NHS charging and rationing 'may be needed'
> 
> By Nick Triggle
> Health correspondent, BBC News
> 4 July 2012 Last updated at 01:16
> 
> The Institute for Fiscal Studies says the coming years will be the toughest since the early 1950s when dental and prescription fees were introduced.
> 
> Other measures, including tax rises, could also form part of the solution.
> 
> And the review says decisions on the NHS - and social care - will have an impact on other public services too.
> 
> The NHS alone accounts for nearly a quarter of public spending.


----------



## Claudette

Govt running HC??

The Govt that has never run anything cheaply or well running HC for 300 million Americans?? Good Gawd. Talk about a red tape, paperwork filled horror show. 

As for MA? I doubt Masscare would be popular if the taxpayers in MA were taxed to pay what the Fed Govt is funnelling into MA to support Masscare. Kinda sorta think they would be screaming like stuck pigs. I know I would. 

Loads of private medical concerns in Canada now and they are getting more popular. Think you'll find that other countries will be getting out of the HC business as they keep having to raise taxes to support it.


----------



## JoeB131

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> You need to do some more research if you honestly believe that a government controlled health care system is a more viable option. National health care is NOT more cost effective, there is no evidence of that (on any level, to even include MASSCARE)
> 
> 
> 
> ]



I have done plenty of research.  When you crush raw numbers and you aren't a Ayn Rand reading loon, they come out pretty well.


----------



## JoeB131

Claudette said:


> Govt running HC??
> 
> The Govt that has never run anything cheaply or well running HC for 300 million Americans?? Good Gawd. Talk about a red tape, paperwork filled horror show.
> 
> As for MA? I doubt Masscare would be popular if the taxpayers in MA were taxed to pay what the Fed Govt is funnelling into MA to support Masscare. Kinda sorta think they would be screaming like stuck pigs. I know I would.
> 
> Loads of private medical concerns in Canada now and they are getting more popular. Think you'll find that other countries will be getting out of the HC business as they keep having to raise taxes to support it.



Keep telling yourself htat, but no country wants the awful mess we have in this one.  

Here's the thing. Medicare runs just fine. The VA runs just fine  

Private Insurance, not so much.


----------



## Contumacious

JoeB131 said:


> Claudette said:
> 
> 
> 
> Govt running HC??
> 
> The Govt that has never run anything cheaply or well running HC for 300 million Americans?? Good Gawd. Talk about a red tape, paperwork filled horror show.
> 
> As for MA? I doubt Masscare would be popular if the taxpayers in MA were taxed to pay what the Fed Govt is funnelling into MA to support Masscare. Kinda sorta think they would be screaming like stuck pigs. I know I would.
> 
> Loads of private medical concerns in Canada now and they are getting more popular. Think you'll find that other countries will be getting out of the HC business as they keep having to raise taxes to support it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling yourself htat, but no country wants the awful mess we have in this one.
> 
> Here's the thing. Medicare runs just fine. The VA runs just fine
> 
> *Private Insurance, not so much.*
Click to expand...



Yo retard, are you aware that Aetna, Cigna, etc can not print their own money like the federal government does?

That they have to attract investment revenue by providing a return to their investors, ie, they can not send armed IRS  agents to loot and plunder.

Go back and delete that stupid post,

.


----------



## JoeB131

Contumacious said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Claudette said:
> 
> 
> 
> Govt running HC??
> 
> The Govt that has never run anything cheaply or well running HC for 300 million Americans?? Good Gawd. Talk about a red tape, paperwork filled horror show.
> 
> As for MA? I doubt Masscare would be popular if the taxpayers in MA were taxed to pay what the Fed Govt is funnelling into MA to support Masscare. Kinda sorta think they would be screaming like stuck pigs. I know I would.
> 
> Loads of private medical concerns in Canada now and they are getting more popular. Think you'll find that other countries will be getting out of the HC business as they keep having to raise taxes to support it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling yourself htat, but no country wants the awful mess we have in this one.
> 
> Here's the thing. Medicare runs just fine. The VA runs just fine
> 
> *Private Insurance, not so much.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yo retard, are you aware that Aetna, Cigna, etc can not print their own money like the federal government does?
> 
> That they have to attract investment revenue by providing a return to their investors, ie, they can not send armed IRS  agents to loot and plunder.
> 
> Go back and delete that stupid post,
> 
> .
Click to expand...


NO, Cigna just goes ahead and denies people liver transplants or tells employers to fire employees that get sick.   

Hey, guy, the idea of health care is NOT to make investors rich. 

It's to provide care to patients.  

Are you some kind of retard?


----------



## ScienceRocks

What ever we do we must 
1. Keep high medical standards
2. Low wait times
3. Innovation...I believe we should spend more on research into curing stuff. cancer, heart disease, aids, etc. This would save us more in the long term. 
4. A system the helps people when they need helped.

These 4 parts need to be followed when dealing with our healthcare system.


----------



## Contumacious

JoeB131 said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling yourself htat, but no country wants the awful mess we have in this one.
> 
> Here's the thing. Medicare runs just fine. The VA runs just fine
> 
> *Private Insurance, not so much.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yo retard, are you aware that Aetna, Cigna, etc can not print their own money like the federal government does?
> 
> That they have to attract investment revenue by providing a return to their investors, ie, they can not send armed IRS  agents to loot and plunder.
> 
> Go back and delete that stupid post,
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NO, Cigna just goes ahead and denies people liver transplants or tells employers to fire employees that get sick.
> 
> *Hey, guy, the idea of health care is NOT to make investors rich.
> 
> It's to provide care to patients.  *
> 
> Are you some kind of retard?
Click to expand...


Excuse me fucktard, like I said private individuals and corporations can not print their own money nor seize property so how then are they supposed to get capital to operate.

You are another fucked up product of government "education" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.


----------



## JoeB131

Contumacious said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> [/B]
> 
> Yo retard, are you aware that Aetna, Cigna, etc can not print their own money like the federal government does?
> 
> That they have to attract investment revenue by providing a return to their investors, ie, they can not send armed IRS  agents to loot and plunder.
> 
> Go back and delete that stupid post,
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NO, Cigna just goes ahead and denies people liver transplants or tells employers to fire employees that get sick.
> 
> *Hey, guy, the idea of health care is NOT to make investors rich.
> 
> It's to provide care to patients.  *
> 
> Are you some kind of retard?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Excuse me fucktard, like I said private individuals and corporations can not print their own money nor seize property so how then are they supposed to get capital to operate.
> 
> You are another fucked up product of government "education" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> .
Click to expand...


Again, the goal here is not for investors to make money. 

It's to provide high quality health care to all our citizens. 

Period.  

If they can't get the job done without cheating their policy holders (which is the case with the policies being cancelled) then we would all be better off if they went out of business.  

Oh, incidently, countries that HAVE universal health care spend LESS than we do... here's a helpful chart for you.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

JoeB131 said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to do some more research if you honestly believe that a government controlled health care system is a more viable option. National health care is NOT more cost effective, there is no evidence of that (on any level, to even include MASSCARE)
> 
> 
> 
> ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have done plenty of research.  When you crush raw numbers and you aren't a Ayn Rand reading loon, they come out pretty well.
Click to expand...


 I very seriously doubt you are any better at crunching raw numbers than those government officials in MASSCARE, or NHS who are each tackling health care cost issues as well the need to still provide quality care. Based on your ability to counter the facts I've already provided, it appears you're rather lacking in that "research" department.


----------



## TemplarKormac

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It strikes me that if someone has already done something and worked all teh bugs out, you go with what they did.
> 
> Germany has had universal coverage- a form of private and public insurance that covers everyone - since the time of Otto von Bismarck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> looks like if it worked for you, you would move your ass their. Don't let the door hit your ass when you leave.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ONce again, we are going to fix this country, and you will thank us for it.
Click to expand...


Heaven help us all.


----------



## TemplarKormac

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ONce again, we are going to fix this country, and you will thank us for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THIS country did not need to be fixed, now it does. You don't like it, and think we should be more like those other countries? MOVE YOUR GOD DAMN ASS TO ONE OF THEM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lowest life expectency in the INdustrialized World
> _Highest Infant mortality rate in the industrialized world_
> Highest spend per capita in the Industrialized world
> 62% of bankruptcies linked to medical crisis.
> 46 million uninsured.
> 25 million underinsured.
> 
> Yes, it needed to be fixed, and if you guys weren't so busy sucking Koch, you'd realize it needed to be fixed.
Click to expand...


Gee no wonder, we slaughter hundreds of thousands of them in the womb every year. Heh. That's pathetic Joe.


----------



## Vandalshandle

Joe, you might as well give it up. These guys have had AM radio turned up so loud for so long that that have become immune to logic. The fact that Medicare works just fine, escapes them. The fact that every industrialized nation in the world has some sort of universal health care escapes them. The fact that not one single country has ever even considered adopting our employer based health insurance system escapes them. The fact that employers having to contribute at least 50% of the single premium out of their own pocket, thus making them uncompetitive in the world market, and motivating employers to ship jobs overseas, escapes them. 

You are wasting your time when you tell the Right that runnung around in circles, screaming, in order to put the fire in their hair out, is not going to do them any good.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

JoeB131 said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling yourself htat, but no country wants the awful mess we have in this one.
> 
> Here's the thing. Medicare runs just fine. The VA runs just fine
> 
> *Private Insurance, not so much.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yo retard, are you aware that Aetna, Cigna, etc can not print their own money like the federal government does?
> 
> That they have to attract investment revenue by providing a return to their investors, ie, they can not send armed IRS  agents to loot and plunder.
> 
> Go back and delete that stupid post,
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NO, Cigna just goes ahead and denies people liver transplants or tells employers to fire employees that get sick.
> 
> Hey, guy, the idea of health care is NOT to make investors rich.
> 
> It's to provide care to patients.
> 
> Are you some kind of retard?
Click to expand...


For someone who "claims" to do a lot of research, you are rather ill informed about what is going on regarding national health care. You honestly believe that a government controlled health care system won't deny treatment, that they are somehow BETTER than the private sector?




> *NHS doctor denied life-extending cancer drugs in latest 'postcode lottery' case*
> 
> NHS doctor denied life-extending cancer drugs in latest 'postcode lottery' case - Telegraph
> 
> A doctor has been refused cancer therapy that could prolong her life by 20 years, in the latest example of the "postcode lottery" in NHS treatment.
> 
> Becky Smith, 30, was told that her local NHS Trust would not meet the £23,000 cost of the pioneering treatment, despite it being available for patients in other areas of the country.





> *NHS denies 'effective' cancer drugs due to cost
> *
> 
> NHS denies 'effective' cancer drugs due to cost - Health News - Health & Families - The Independent
> 
> Campaigners expressed outrage yesterday at a decision to deny four drug treatments to NHS patients with advanced kidney cancer.
> The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (Nice) issued draft guidance rejecting the drugs Sutent (sunitinib), Avastin (bevacizumab), Nexavar (sorafenib) and Torisel (temsirolimus). This leaves patients with only one treatment option  interferon.
> 
> Professor John Wagstaff, from the South Wales Cancer Institute, said there was "no point" in him accepting referrals for people with advanced kidney cancer as 75 per cent of them "do not gain any real benefit" from interferon.





> *NHS cuts: Blood Clot Patients Being Denied Vital Drugs*
> 
> NHS cuts: Blood clot patients being denied vital drugs putting lives at risk - Mirror Online
> 
> More than 80,000 people a year suffer blood clots and the annual cost to the NHS is £640million.
> 
> Campaigners insist NOAC drugs save the health service cash by keeping people out of hospital.
> 
> A survey by charity Lifeblood found 64% of GPs had been prevented from giving patients NOAC *medicines by their own practice managers.
> 
> Of those, 98% said it was because of the NHS budget cuts brought in by Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt.
> 
> One patient, Joga Khera, told how his consultant had *recommended he be given NOAC after developing a blood clot in his leg last year. But his GP would not prescribe them.
> 
> The 45-year-old purchasing manager, of Iver, Bucks, said: They just refused.


----------



## OKTexas

JoeB131 said:


> Claudette said:
> 
> 
> 
> Govt running HC??
> 
> The Govt that has never run anything cheaply or well running HC for 300 million Americans?? Good Gawd. Talk about a red tape, paperwork filled horror show.
> 
> As for MA? I doubt Masscare would be popular if the taxpayers in MA were taxed to pay what the Fed Govt is funnelling into MA to support Masscare. Kinda sorta think they would be screaming like stuck pigs. I know I would.
> 
> Loads of private medical concerns in Canada now and they are getting more popular. Think you'll find that other countries will be getting out of the HC business as they keep having to raise taxes to support it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling yourself htat, but no country wants the awful mess we have in this one.
> 
> Here's the thing. Medicare runs just fine. The VA runs just fine
> 
> Private Insurance, not so much.
Click to expand...


If you think VA runs just fine then you don't know what you're talking about. The VA has Canadian style wait times. and that's after it taking up to 2 years to get into the system. The VA has a huge provider shortage and they are not keeping up with demand.


----------



## JoeB131

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to do some more research if you honestly believe that a government controlled health care system is a more viable option. National health care is NOT more cost effective, there is no evidence of that (on any level, to even include MASSCARE)
> 
> 
> 
> ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have done plenty of research.  When you crush raw numbers and you aren't a Ayn Rand reading loon, they come out pretty well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I very seriously doubt you are any better at crunching raw numbers than those government officials in MASSCARE, or NHS who are each tackling health care cost issues as well the need to still provide quality care. Based on your ability to counter the facts I've already provided, it appears you're rather lacking in that "research" department.
Click to expand...


Here are the facts. 

British people spend less per capita than we do. 
They have a lower infant mortality rate
They have a longer life expectency
The World Health Organization ranked the UK as having the 18th best system in the world.  meanwhile the US ranked 46 out of 48 countries included in the same study.


----------



## JoeB131

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> [/B]
> 
> Yo retard, are you aware that Aetna, Cigna, etc can not print their own money like the federal government does?
> 
> That they have to attract investment revenue by providing a return to their investors, ie, they can not send armed IRS  agents to loot and plunder.
> 
> Go back and delete that stupid post,
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NO, Cigna just goes ahead and denies people liver transplants or tells employers to fire employees that get sick.
> 
> Hey, guy, the idea of health care is NOT to make investors rich.
> 
> It's to provide care to patients.
> 
> Are you some kind of retard?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For someone who "claims" to do a lot of research, you are rather ill informed about what is going on regarding national health care. You honestly believe that a government controlled health care system won't deny treatment, that they are somehow BETTER than the private sector?
> 
> .
Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]

Again, you go by anecdote...  I can come up with plenty of anecdotes about people screwed over by our system. 

I go by raw figures- The Brits live longer, spend less, have less babies dies in infancy, less people go bankrupt when they get sick.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

I remember back in 2010 democrats had the party table set for a clean sweep. What happen?


----------



## JoeB131

bigrebnc1775 said:


> I remember back in 2010 democrats had the party table set for a clean sweep. What happen?



Really?  Because nearly everyone else realized the GOP would make gains because the out of power party almost always does in off election years.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I remember back in 2010 democrats had the party table set for a clean sweep. What happen?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Because nearly everyone else realized the GOP would make gains because the out of power party almost always does in off election years.
Click to expand...


You are a god damn liar.


----------



## Toro

1.  Because Obamacare is a resounding success, with millions of Americans signing up over the whiz-bang Internet site, and not losing their current insurance as promised.


----------



## Toro

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> You need to do some more research if you honestly believe that a government controlled health care system is a more viable option. National health care is NOT more cost effective, there is no evidence of that (on any level, to even include MASSCARE)



There are many valid criticisms of nationalized healthcare, but "not lower cost" isn't one of them.

It's not even remotely close.


----------



## Stephanie

this thread is just another leftie/liberal/Democrat/commies wet dream

when ofailnocare continues hitting people in this country as it's just begun...

no amount of using blacks, Hispanics, homosexuals, childreeeeen,  etc etc will help this Democrat/commie party

vote the bastards out of power over us people


----------



## JoeB131

Stephanie said:


> this thread is just another leftie/liberal/Democrat/commies wet dream
> 
> when ofailnocare continues hitting people in this country as it's just begun...
> 
> no amount of using blacks, Hispanics, homosexuals, childreeeeen,  etc etc will help this Democrat/commie party
> 
> vote the bastards out of power over us people



Only about four percent of people are being effected adversely by ObamaCare. 

Compared to 16% who are benefitting from it.


----------



## JoeB131

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I remember back in 2010 democrats had the party table set for a clean sweep. What happen?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Because nearly everyone else realized the GOP would make gains because the out of power party almost always does in off election years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are a god damn liar.
Click to expand...


Please post a quote to any pundit who seriously predicted more Democratic gains in 2010. 

Thanks.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Because nearly everyone else realized the GOP would make gains because the out of power party almost always does in off election years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are a god damn liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please post a quote to any pundit who seriously predicted more Democratic gains in 2010.
> 
> Thanks.
Click to expand...


you're a dumb ass

Republicans in Distress: Is the Party Over? - TIME

And They Wonder Why the GOP Is Dead « Tammy Bruce

OpEdNews - Article: How Dead is the Republican Party?


----------



## JoeB131

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are a god damn liar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please post a quote to any pundit who seriously predicted more Democratic gains in 2010.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you're a dumb ass
> 
> Republicans in Distress: Is the Party Over? - TIME
> 
> And They Wonder Why the GOP Is Dead « Tammy Bruce
> 
> OpEdNews - Article: How Dead is the Republican Party?
Click to expand...


You had to go all the way back to early 2009 for those, really?  

How about predictions FROM 2010 about 2010. 

Thanks.


----------



## Meister

JoeB131 said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> this thread is just another leftie/liberal/Democrat/commies wet dream
> 
> when ofailnocare continues hitting people in this country as it's just begun...
> 
> no amount of using blacks, Hispanics, homosexuals, childreeeeen,  etc etc will help this Democrat/commie party
> 
> vote the bastards out of power over us people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only about four percent of people are being effected adversely by ObamaCare.
> 
> Compared to 16% who are benefitting from it.
Click to expand...


You seem to overlook that businesses have been exempt until next year....wanna guess how much the numbers rise then?  Hmmmmm? 
The numbers who are benefiting are those on medicare and medicaid....(not paying in)


----------



## Neotrotsky

*One more reason why republicans will lose big in 2014

won't be because of this..... if anything, it helps them


*


----------



## bigrebnc1775

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please post a quote to any pundit who seriously predicted more Democratic gains in 2010.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you're a dumb ass
> 
> Republicans in Distress: Is the Party Over? - TIME
> 
> And They Wonder Why the GOP Is Dead « Tammy Bruce
> 
> OpEdNews - Article: How Dead is the Republican Party?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You had to go all the way back to early 2009 for those, really?
> 
> How about predictions FROM 2010 about 2010.
> 
> Thanks.
Click to expand...

Stupid fuck 2009 lead up to the 2010 election that was the GOP is dead in 2010


----------



## Neotrotsky

The left has never been good with numbers...

Is the reactionary Left still claiming Papa Obama care is going to save the gov't money
and add nothing to national debt?


Obama Lied

American Trust and Heath-care plans died


----------



## JoeB131

Meister said:


> [quote
> 
> You seem to overlook that businesses have been exempt until next year....wanna guess how much the numbers rise then?  Hmmmmm?
> The numbers who are benefiting are those on medicare and medicaid....(not paying in)



You mean businesses that weren't getting the job done, either. 

Look, guy, there was a simple enough solution to it. Universal health care with a single payer, get rid of all this bureaucracy of plans and deals and shit.  

And you guys insisted up and down that we had to have private sector insurance involved. 

The rest of the world has figured this out.


----------



## Neotrotsky

too rich- a UN based chart- how is that global warming errr cooling errr climate change charts working for them

self reported stats from countries that UN bases this chart

Remember where the Soviet Union use to place
when they reported their numbers?


Obama Lied
American Trust and Health-care plans died


----------



## JoeB131

Neotrotsky said:


> too rich- a UN based chart- how is that global warming errr cooling errr climate change charts working for them
> 
> self reported stats from countries that UN bases this chart
> 
> Remember where the Soviet Union use to place
> when they reported their numbers?
> 
> 
> Obama Lied
> American Trust and Health-care plans died



These are all industrialized democracies that publish public budgets, guy.  

Come on, if you are going to Troll the thread, at least make an effort.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Trolling would be pretending to be a former Republican


sure, whatever
garbage stats for a garbage program

speaking of.....

How many were dying a month again without health insurance?
You know the numbers the left was claiming before ObamaCare was forced on us.

Sad, to think all those people dying at their computers
waiting to get Obamacare

Why should anyone trusts what the lefts says, now

Papa Obama sort of  ruined that for the left


Obama Lied
America Trust and Health care plans died



Don't go off in a huff again


----------



## JoeB131

NeoTrollsky, I was a republican, until I realized that they only worked for the rich. 

My embarrassment at having to admit my Union THug brother in law was right aside, that's what it was.  

I frankly don't know how anyone could still be a Republican after 2008.


----------



## Neotrotsky

concern troll is so 90's


----------



## Iceman

JoeB131 said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> [quote
> 
> You seem to overlook that businesses have been exempt until next year....wanna guess how much the numbers rise then?  Hmmmmm?
> The numbers who are benefiting are those on medicare and medicaid....(not paying in)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean businesses that weren't getting the job done, either.
> 
> Look, guy, there was a simple enough solution to it. Universal health care with a single payer, get rid of all this bureaucracy of plans and deals and shit.
> 
> And you guys insisted up and down that we had to have private sector insurance involved.
> 
> The rest of the world has figured this out.
Click to expand...


So let me get this straight, we spend double the rest of the world, and we need to have medicaid/medicare for all? 

That makes no sense.


----------



## Neotrotsky

garbage stats

same group that tried to put Iran and Syria on some Human Rights commission


----------



## JoeB131

Iceman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> [quote
> 
> You seem to overlook that businesses have been exempt until next year....wanna guess how much the numbers rise then?  Hmmmmm?
> The numbers who are benefiting are those on medicare and medicaid....(not paying in)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean businesses that weren't getting the job done, either.
> 
> Look, guy, there was a simple enough solution to it. Universal health care with a single payer, get rid of all this bureaucracy of plans and deals and shit.
> 
> And you guys insisted up and down that we had to have private sector insurance involved.
> 
> The rest of the world has figured this out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So let me get this straight, we spend double the rest of the world, and we need to have medicaid/medicare for all?
> 
> That makes no sense.
Click to expand...


Ooookay. 

Try to explain it to you slower. 

Get rid of the insurance companies with their 30% overhead, their 83 million dollar severance packages for retiring CEO's, their stock dividends and commercials telling people they aren't fucking them over at all, really.  Get rid of the three people in every doctor's office who do nothing but fight with insurance companies and then have to collect from patients when the insurance companies don't pay.


----------



## JoeB131

Neotrotsky said:


> garbage stats
> 
> same group that tried to put Iran and Syria on some Human Rights commission



Yup, everyone is lying to make America look bad. 

Health statistics.
Crime Statistics.

Don't they know we are "Exceptional"?


----------



## Neotrotsky

lying to make the US look bad
Papa Obama does enough of that for us

Pretty bad when Egypt turns to Russia 
and not the US

Of course, can you blame them

We have seen it

Obama Lied
American Trust and Health care plans died


----------



## Iceman

JoeB131 said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean businesses that weren't getting the job done, either.
> 
> Look, guy, there was a simple enough solution to it. Universal health care with a single payer, get rid of all this bureaucracy of plans and deals and shit.
> 
> And you guys insisted up and down that we had to have private sector insurance involved.
> 
> The rest of the world has figured this out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So let me get this straight, we spend double the rest of the world, and we need to have medicaid/medicare for all?
> 
> That makes no sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ooookay.
> 
> Try to explain it to you slower.
> 
> Get rid of the insurance companies with their 30% overhead, their 83 million dollar severance packages for retiring CEO's, their stock dividends and commercials telling people they aren't fucking them over at all, really.  Get rid of the three people in every doctor's office who do nothing but fight with insurance companies and then have to collect from patients when the insurance companies don't pay.
Click to expand...


Government is what created the problem in the first place. Prior to Medicare/Medicaid in the 1960s, healthcare expenditures amounted for about 5% of GDP, now it is approaching 20% and average people can no longer pay out of pocket for normal healthcare expenditures, they now need insurance or the government. 

I am not a fan of the insurance companies either, that is why I oppose Obamacare, it is collaboration between insurance companies and the state to increase the profits of the insurance companies through government mandates. It is robbery.

Prior to Medicaid and Medicare, medical bills were paid for out of pocket, this is what should be the case. Now getting rid of Medicare and Medicaid over night is impossible. However, we can allow competition across state lines, health savings accounts, enact tort reform, and get rid of federal mandates for insurance companies(allowing individuals to buy "bare bones" plans). This would lower costs and increase competition, making the costs less burdensome on consumers.


----------



## JoeB131

Neotrotsky said:


> lying to make the US look bad
> Papa Obama does enough of that for us
> 
> Pretty bad when Egypt turns to Russia
> and not the US
> 
> Of course, can you blame them
> 
> We have seen it
> 
> Obama Lied
> American Trust and Health care plans died



Do you suffer from some kind of OCD?  

Because I think that's covered under ObamaCare now. 

I'm sorry, I'm not up at night worried the Egyptians don't love us, becaue they never really did.  

Let the Russians prop up their sorry economy.  That will be amusing. 

But stop avoiding the point. 

How is it, that we spend TWICE or THREE TIMES what other industrialized democracies do?  

Because we aren't getting better results for all that extra money spent.  We have a lower life expectency and a higher infant mortality rate than most of them. 

This was the question you keep avoiding.


----------



## JoeB131

Iceman said:


> [
> 
> Government is what created the problem in the first place. *Prior to Medicare/Medicaid in the 1960s, healthcare expenditures amounted for about 5% of GDP, *now it is approaching 20% and average people can no longer pay out of pocket for normal healthcare expenditures, they now need insurance or the government.
> 
> I am not a fan of the insurance companies either, that is why I oppose Obamacare, it is collaboration between insurance companies and the state to increase the profits of the insurance companies through government mandates. It is robbery.
> 
> Prior to Medicaid and Medicare, medical bills were paid for out of pocket, this is what should be the case. Now getting rid of Medicare and Medicaid over night is impossible. However, we can allow competition across state lines, health savings accounts, enact tort reform, and get rid of federal mandates for insurance companies(allowing individuals to buy "bare bones" plans). This would lower costs and increase competition, making the costs less burdensome on consumers.



Guy, this has to be the stupidest thing you've said yet.  

DO you REALLY want to go back to 1960, where the average life expectency was 68 years (compared to 78 years now).  

When you got old- YOU DIED!!!!!

This is not what I think I want to go back to, and I'm not sure why you want to.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Iceman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> So let me get this straight, we spend double the rest of the world, and we need to have medicaid/medicare for all?
> 
> That makes no sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ooookay.
> 
> Try to explain it to you slower.
> 
> Get rid of the insurance companies with their 30% overhead, their 83 million dollar severance packages for retiring CEO's, their stock dividends and commercials telling people they aren't fucking them over at all, really.  Get rid of the three people in every doctor's office who do nothing but fight with insurance companies and then have to collect from patients when the insurance companies don't pay.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Government is what created the problem in the first place. Prior to Medicare/Medicaid in the 1960s, healthcare expenditures amounted for about 5% of GDP, now it is approaching 20% and average people can no longer pay out of pocket for normal healthcare expenditures, they now need insurance or the government.
> 
> I am not a fan of the insurance companies either, that is why I oppose Obamacare, it is collaboration between insurance companies and the state to increase the profits of the insurance companies through government mandates. It is robbery.
> 
> Prior to Medicaid and Medicare, medical bills were paid for out of pocket, this is what should be the case. Now getting rid of Medicare and Medicaid over night is impossible. However, we can allow competition across state lines, health savings accounts, enact tort reform, and get rid of federal mandates for insurance companies(allowing individuals to buy "bare bones" plans). This would lower costs and increase competition, making the costs less burdensome on consumers.
Click to expand...



I remember when they did their ranking of healthcare systems
If one had a non socialized system, it automatically scored lower

Remember that crap stat the reactionary left use to use
47 million not insured
What they forgot to tell us
-20 million were not US citizens
-3.5 million had incomes over $75,000
-10 million had incomes over $50,000
45% uninsured for less than 4 months


Combined with Papa Obama's greatest lies
the trust that people want to have for a President, is gone

Obama lied
American Trust and Healthcare plans died


----------



## ScienceRocks

JoeB131 said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> garbage stats
> 
> same group that tried to put Iran and Syria on some Human Rights commission
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, everyone is lying to make America look bad.
> 
> Health statistics.
> Crime Statistics.
> 
> Don't they know we are "Exceptional"?
Click to expand...


Both crime and health statistics are very true. Both issues need to be addressed as there's a serious problem in this country.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Over 15 trillion spent on Great Society programs in almost 50 years
Some claim it would end poverty in our lifetime
same level of poverty


No doubt, the terrible economic performance of the last few years
does not help

Combined with that debt we have incurred to get such a poor performance,
perhaps, gov't does not have all the answers

Does anyone really think throwing more money at it
is going to help?


----------



## Zander

Neotrotsky said:


> Over 15 trillion spent on Great Society programs in almost 50 years
> Some claim it would end poverty in our lifetime
> same level of poverty
> 
> 
> No doubt, the terrible economic performance of the last few years
> does not help
> 
> Combined with that debt we have incurred to get such a poor performance,
> perhaps, gov't does not have all the answers
> 
> Does anyone really think throwing more money at it
> is going to help?



This idiot does.....


----------



## Neotrotsky

Zander said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Over 15 trillion spent on Great Society programs in almost 50 years
> Some claim it would end poverty in our lifetime
> same level of poverty
> 
> 
> No doubt, the terrible economic performance of the last few years
> does not help
> 
> Combined with that debt we have incurred to get such a poor performance,
> perhaps, gov't does not have all the answers
> 
> Does anyone really think throwing more money at it
> is going to help?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This idiot does.....
Click to expand...


I hear you

Reminds me of an old post I did
Couple of years old but it has only gone higher


Move Over Einstein, there is a new kid in town





Comrades,

We know that many on the racist right have tried to play up Papa Obama's deficit spending as having no end in sight. But, through my sources at DNC, I have been given inside knowledge of Papa Obama's theory on deficit spending. Papa Obama has actually found a universal constant to spending. 

Apparently, he has based it on another's work but not as smart as Papa Obama to see the big picture

*E= MC^2*
where:
_*E*= socialist egalitarianism
*M*= Gross National Product 
*C*= speed of spending- which is a constant
It is so simple and beautiful
_​Let us approximate on our current deficit spending to show us how this works 
(using 365 days) h/t to RealDealPolitics

At 4 trillion dollars a year, what we actually have....
Per actual day $10,958,904,110
Per actual hour $456,621,005
Per actual minute $7,610,350
Per actual second $126,839


Indeed as spending approaches the same number of units per second for the speed of light or 186,282 miles per second, we will reach our Progressive Utopia. In Papa Obama's theory, as we approach this speed of spending constant the National Debt will actually slow down. Of course, once achieving this Utopia, the masses will respond in kind by being the most productive ever in history and at that point the Deficit will just "wither away". Man will truly become free...

_Man, at last the master of his own form of social organization, becomes at the same time the lord over Nature, his own master  free.
_​Trying to build on Papa Obama's theory, some progressives, *like Krugman*, are hard at work to see if we can break this constant of spending to see if it would be possible to even reverse the National Debt.

These are most exciting times we live in comrades

Remember,
Papa Obama IS working, we just need more spending to get there !


----------



## Iceman

JoeB131 said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> Government is what created the problem in the first place. *Prior to Medicare/Medicaid in the 1960s, healthcare expenditures amounted for about 5% of GDP, *now it is approaching 20% and average people can no longer pay out of pocket for normal healthcare expenditures, they now need insurance or the government.
> 
> I am not a fan of the insurance companies either, that is why I oppose Obamacare, it is collaboration between insurance companies and the state to increase the profits of the insurance companies through government mandates. It is robbery.
> 
> Prior to Medicaid and Medicare, medical bills were paid for out of pocket, this is what should be the case. Now getting rid of Medicare and Medicaid over night is impossible. However, we can allow competition across state lines, health savings accounts, enact tort reform, and get rid of federal mandates for insurance companies(allowing individuals to buy "bare bones" plans). This would lower costs and increase competition, making the costs less burdensome on consumers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guy, this has to be the stupidest thing you've said yet.
> 
> DO you REALLY want to go back to 1960, where the average life expectency was 68 years (compared to 78 years now).
> 
> When you got old- YOU DIED!!!!!
> 
> This is not what I think I want to go back to, and I'm not sure why you want to.
Click to expand...

No, it is a fact you dense twit.






Healthcare - Just Facts

As far as healthcare policy, I absolutely want to go back to the pre medicaid/medicare days.

Yea, and increases in life expectancy have nothing to do with innovation in the field of medicine, it is all because of the magic of medicaid and medicare, lol. Piss off troll.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Oh no

the reactionary left wants the same kind of geniuses that developed
the Obamacare website to make healthcare decisions for us.

Just think of how Papa Obama and the left tried
to punish people by closing open air parks to old and wounded veterans


Just imagine the kind of punishment the gov't do 
when/if they get full control of healthcare


----------



## Neotrotsky

JoeB131 said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> lying to make the US look bad
> Papa Obama does enough of that for us
> 
> Pretty bad when Egypt turns to Russia
> and not the US
> 
> Of course, can you blame them
> 
> We have seen it
> 
> Obama Lied
> American Trust and Health care plans died
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you suffer from some kind of OCD?
> 
> Because I think that's covered under ObamaCare now.
> 
> I'm sorry, I'm not up at night worried the Egyptians don't love us, becaue they never really did.
> 
> Let the Russians prop up their sorry economy.  That will be amusing.
> 
> But stop avoiding the point.
> 
> How is it, that we spend TWICE or THREE TIMES what other industrialized democracies do?
> 
> Because we aren't getting better results for all that extra money spent.  We have a lower life expectency and a higher infant mortality rate than most of them.
> 
> This was the question you keep avoiding.
Click to expand...


Not at all- what's to avoid?
same worthless reactionary leftist talking points, I hear all the time.

What proof is there that life expectancy and money spent are directly related?
For that case, we spend more gov't money on education than any other western country
and we get some of the worst results.

Infant mortality, the same ones based on the garage UN stats...
The same agency that loves to dump and belittle the US any chance they get, that one

How other countries don't count low birthweight babies who die but, we do
Some European countries require a baby be alive 26 weeks to be counted as alive
Some in Europe do it based on size 30 centimeters (12 inches) long to be declared &#8220;alive&#8221;
Some countries if a baby dies within 24 hours, it is considered still born
Probably the same reason these countries have very high stillborn rates.  Some parts of Europe, it is very high

-stats are funny things -
especially in the hands of the left


Truth is hard for the left
In fact, it is their worst enemy


Besides, now that crappy program is in place
The reactionary left should really be busy trying to make
up stats to show how better off , we are now.

Of course, it might be a harder sell.
After Papa Obama's lies
how can the US people really trust anything the left says?

"Look, we were lying that time but we are not lying this time"

good luck with that....

Is the left still trying to claim that ObamaCare will not add to the National Debt?
It is so hard to keep up with all of the lies from the left, these days.


----------



## Meister

JoeB131 said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> [quote
> 
> You seem to overlook that businesses have been exempt until next year....wanna guess how much the numbers rise then?  Hmmmmm?
> The numbers who are benefiting are those on medicare and medicaid....(not paying in)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean businesses that weren't getting the job done, either.
> 
> Look, guy, there was a simple enough solution to it. Universal health care with a single payer, get rid of all this bureaucracy of plans and deals and shit.
> 
> And you guys insisted up and down that we had to have private sector insurance involved.
> 
> The rest of the world has figured this out.
Click to expand...


You can blame it on the republicans if it makes you feel better, Joe.
But, you didn't have enough democrats on board with your socialist approach to healthcare.....just sayin'


----------



## BDBoop

JoeB131 said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> lying to make the US look bad
> Papa Obama does enough of that for us
> 
> Pretty bad when Egypt turns to Russia
> and not the US
> 
> Of course, can you blame them
> 
> We have seen it
> 
> Obama Lied
> American Trust and Health care plans died
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you suffer from some kind of OCD?
> 
> Because I think that's covered under ObamaCare now.
> 
> I'm sorry, I'm not up at night worried the Egyptians don't love us, becaue they never really did.
> 
> Let the Russians prop up their sorry economy.  That will be amusing.
> 
> But stop avoiding the point.
> 
> *How is it, that we spend TWICE or THREE TIMES what other industrialized democracies do?  *
> 
> Because we aren't getting better results for all that extra money spent.  We have a lower life expectency and a higher infant mortality rate than most of them.
> 
> This was the question you keep avoiding.
Click to expand...


Holler when somebody answers the bolded.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

JoeB131 said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean businesses that weren't getting the job done, either.
> 
> Look, guy, there was a simple enough solution to it. Universal health care with a single payer, get rid of all this bureaucracy of plans and deals and shit.
> 
> And you guys insisted up and down that we had to have private sector insurance involved.
> 
> The rest of the world has figured this out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So let me get this straight, we spend double the rest of the world, and we need to have medicaid/medicare for all?
> 
> That makes no sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ooookay.
> 
> Try to explain it to you slower.
> 
> Get rid of the insurance companies with their 30% overhead, their 83 million dollar severance packages for retiring CEO's, their stock dividends and commercials telling people they aren't fucking them over at all, really.  Get rid of the three people in every doctor's office who do nothing but fight with insurance companies and then have to collect from patients when the insurance companies don't pay.
Click to expand...


Insurance companies don't have 30% overhead you fucking moron


----------



## JakeStarkey

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually that's a mirror you are talking to, bigrebnc, so take your own advice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you make me chicken shit.
> Cock sucker that son of a bitch thinks those countries are so great why don't you and the bitch move there together.
Click to expand...


I served this country, son, and you did not.  Those are good countries, but America is better, and since my day in part, with all Veterans, is this Monday, think about this who protected your ass because you wouldn't serve.

Yah, keep talking to the tool in the mirror.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

JoeB131 said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> lying to make the US look bad
> Papa Obama does enough of that for us
> 
> Pretty bad when Egypt turns to Russia
> and not the US
> 
> Of course, can you blame them
> 
> We have seen it
> 
> Obama Lied
> American Trust and Health care plans died
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you suffer from some kind of OCD?
> 
> Because I think that's covered under ObamaCare now.
> 
> I'm sorry, I'm not up at night worried the Egyptians don't love us, becaue they never really did.
> 
> Let the Russians prop up their sorry economy.  That will be amusing.
> 
> But stop avoiding the point.
> 
> How is it, that we spend TWICE or THREE TIMES what other industrialized democracies do?
> 
> Because we aren't getting better results for all that extra money spent.  We have a lower life expectency and a higher infant mortality rate than most of them.
> 
> This was the question you keep avoiding.
Click to expand...


You're a dumb ass joe how much do you spend on drugs a year? Me I spend maybe 30 dollars I don't buy drug store pills. I don't over medicate myself life others do. If I have a cough or a stuffed up head I don't go running to the drug store or doctor. That is the problem with Americans they too stupid to take care of them self.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually that's a mirror you are talking to, bigrebnc, so take your own advice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you make me chicken shit.
> Cock sucker that son of a bitch thinks those countries are so great why don't you and the bitch move there together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I served this country, son, and you did not.  Those are good countries, but America is better, and since my day in part, with all Veterans, is this Monday, think about this who protected your ass because you wouldn't serve.
> 
> Yah, keep talking to the tool in the mirror.
Click to expand...


You know you're lying toad we've been through this before. Remember that ABGD?


----------



## JakeStarkey

And there you have it from Dr. bigrebnc1775.

Give us a break, you twit.


----------



## JakeStarkey

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you make me chicken shit.
> Cock sucker that son of a bitch thinks those countries are so great why don't you and the bitch move there together.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I served this country, son, and you did not.  Those are good countries, but America is better, and since my day in part, with all Veterans, is this Monday, think about this who protected your ass because you wouldn't serve.
> 
> Yah, keep talking to the tool in the mirror.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know you're lying toad we've been through this before. Remember that ABGD?
Click to expand...


Remember you got taken down and exposed as a liar?

We will do it again if you want.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

JakeStarkey said:


> And there you have it from Dr. bigrebnc1775.
> 
> Give us a break, you twit.



Why don't you do America a favor go with joe and play in the middle of a chacigo gang war get caught in the cross fire?


----------



## bigrebnc1775

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> I served this country, son, and you did not.  Those are good countries, but America is better, and since my day in part, with all Veterans, is this Monday, think about this who protected your ass because you wouldn't serve.
> 
> Yah, keep talking to the tool in the mirror.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know you're lying toad we've been through this before. Remember that ABGD?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember you got taken down and exposed as a liar?
> 
> We will do it again if you want.
Click to expand...


Go ask daveman


----------



## JakeStarkey

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know you're lying toad we've been through this before. Remember that ABGD?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember you got taken down and exposed as a liar?
> 
> We will do it again if you want.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Go ask daveman
Click to expand...


Nothing to ask.  We served.  You didn't.

We will do it again if you want and expose you as a liar.

You so well fulfill Benjamin Franklin's comment in the first line of my sig.


----------



## BDBoop

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually that's a mirror you are talking to, bigrebnc, so take your own advice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you make me chicken shit.
> Cock sucker that son of a bitch thinks those countries are so great why don't you and the bitch move there together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I served this country, son, and you did not.  Those are good countries, but America is better, and since my day in part, with all Veterans, is this Monday, think about this who protected your ass because you wouldn't serve.
> 
> Yah, keep talking to the tool in the mirror.
Click to expand...


You deserve a medal for actually reading his shit.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember you got taken down and exposed as a liar?
> 
> We will do it again if you want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go ask daveman
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing to ask.  We served.  You didn't.
> 
> We will do it again if you want and expose you as a liar.
> 
> You so well fulfill Benjamin Franklin's comment in the first line of my sig.
Click to expand...


My ASFC was 81150 I was trained at camp bullis Texas after basic ABGD and who the fuck is we


----------



## bigrebnc1775

bdboop said:


> jakestarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> why don't you make me chicken shit.
> Cock sucker that son of a bitch thinks those countries are so great why don't you and the bitch move there together.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i served this country, son, and you did not.  Those are good countries, but america is better, and since my day in part, with all veterans, is this monday, think about this who protected your ass because you wouldn't serve.
> 
> Yah, keep talking to the tool in the mirror.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you deserve a medal for actually reading his shit.
Click to expand...


rotten pussy is back?


----------



## JakeStarkey

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Go ask daveman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing to ask.  We served.  You didn't.
> 
> We will do it again if you want and expose you as a liar.
> 
> You so well fulfill Benjamin Franklin's comment in the first line of my sig.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My ASFC was 81150 I was trained at camp bullis Texas after basic ABGD and who the fuck is we
Click to expand...


The "we" is you and the gopher in your pocket.  So you were Air Security?  Good for you.  And I honor your service.


----------



## JakeStarkey

BDBoop said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you make me chicken shit.
> Cock sucker that son of a bitch thinks those countries are so great why don't you and the bitch move there together.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I served this country, son, and you did not.  Those are good countries, but America is better, and since my day in part, with all Veterans, is this Monday, think about this who protected your ass because you wouldn't serve.
> 
> Yah, keep talking to the tool in the mirror.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You deserve a medal for actually reading his shit.
Click to expand...


I thought he had not served.  Apparently he knows the lingo at least.

I bet though he was discharged early for some nonsense he pulled.


----------



## JakeStarkey

That's what I thought.

He snuck away again.

Well, he is learning that retreat is the better part of avoiding being stupid, and that took him more than three years to get it.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing to ask.  We served.  You didn't.
> 
> We will do it again if you want and expose you as a liar.
> 
> You so well fulfill Benjamin Franklin's comment in the first line of my sig.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My ASFC was 81150 I was trained at camp bullis Texas after basic ABGD and who the fuck is we
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The "we" is you and the gopher in your pocket.  So you were Air Security?  Good for you.  And I honor your service.
Click to expand...


The "WE" you speak of is me and the gopher in my pocket? Are you Jrunk again? No it's called security police 
And fuck you twit I don't need your fake honor go play in the middle of a chicago street gang war with Joe.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

JakeStarkey said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> I served this country, son, and you did not.  Those are good countries, but America is better, and since my day in part, with all Veterans, is this Monday, think about this who protected your ass because you wouldn't serve.
> 
> Yah, keep talking to the tool in the mirror.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You deserve a medal for actually reading his shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought he had not served.  Apparently he knows the lingo at least.
> 
> I bet though he was discharged early for some nonsense he pulled.
Click to expand...


You just got owned for lying AGAIN.


----------



## bayoubill

meh... this back-and-forth political stuff gets so tiresome sometimes...

'specially at my age...


how 'bout a tune...?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkVijd9g_Hk]Little Feat Apolitical Blues - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## JoeB131

Iceman said:


> [
> 
> As far as healthcare policy, I absolutely want to go back to the pre medicaid/medicare days.
> 
> Yea, and increases in life expectancy have nothing to do with innovation in the field of medicine, it is all because of the magic of medicaid and medicare, lol. Piss off troll.



Of course you do.  Because idiots like you see health care a consumer commodity only for the worthy instead of a public service everyone should get.  

Thankfully, you are in the minority, a minority that rarely says what it really wants out loud.


----------



## JoeB131

Neotrotsky said:


> [
> 
> Not at all- what's to avoid?
> same worthless reactionary leftist talking points, I hear all the time.
> 
> What proof is there that life expectancy and money spent are directly related?
> For that case, we spend more gov't money on education than any other western country
> and we get some of the worst results.



We get the worst results because our education system is still segregated between the haves and the have nots.  Kind of like the health care system.  




Neotrotsky said:


> [
> Infant mortality, the same ones based on the garage UN stats...
> The same agency that loves to dump and belittle the US any chance they get, that one
> 
> How other countries don't count low birthweight babies who die but, we do
> Some European countries require a baby be alive 26 weeks to be counted as alive
> Some in Europe do it based on size 30 centimeters (12 inches) long to be declared alive
> Some countries if a baby dies within 24 hours, it is considered still born
> Probably the same reason these countries have very high stillborn rates.  Some parts of Europe, it is very high



Again, this is the typical trope brought out by Wingnuts that "Oh, no, our infant mortality problem isn't that bad beacuse the Europeans don't count preemies."   It's a bullshit excuse. 




> Is the left still trying to claim that ObamaCare will not add to the National Debt?
> It is so hard to keep up with all of the lies from the left, these days.



And there he goes trying to change the subject again.


----------



## Gadawg73

JoeB131 said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> Not at all- what's to avoid?
> same worthless reactionary leftist talking points, I hear all the time.
> 
> What proof is there that life expectancy and money spent are directly related?
> For that case, we spend more gov't money on education than any other western country
> and we get some of the worst results.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We get the worst results because our education system is still segregated between the haves and the have nots.  Kind of like the health care system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Infant mortality, the same ones based on the garage UN stats...
> The same agency that loves to dump and belittle the US any chance they get, that one
> 
> How other countries don't count low birthweight babies who die but, we do
> Some European countries require a baby be alive 26 weeks to be counted as alive
> Some in Europe do it based on size 30 centimeters (12 inches) long to be declared alive
> Some countries if a baby dies within 24 hours, it is considered still born
> Probably the same reason these countries have very high stillborn rates.  Some parts of Europe, it is very high
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, this is the typical trope brought out by Wingnuts that "Oh, no, our infant mortality problem isn't that bad beacuse the Europeans don't count preemies."   It's a bullshit excuse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is the left still trying to claim that ObamaCare will not add to the National Debt?
> It is so hard to keep up with all of the lies from the left, these days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And there he goes trying to change the subject again.
Click to expand...


Ignorance and irresponsibility in some communities where 50 years of government "support" has destroyed the family causes high mortality rates.
Fully supported by the left to this day.


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> [
> 
> Ignorance and irresponsibility in some communities where 50 years of government "support" has destroyed the family causes high mortality rates.
> Fully supported by the left to this day.



Works on the faulty assumption that the poor family would stay together if the government didn't support them.  

poor families don't stay together because they usually don't have anything to plant their flag on.  

Not that middle class families do any better, the divorce rate is still something like 50%. 

Let's be perfectly honest what social programs were. they were 'Please don't riot like you did in the 1960's" money.  

There's plenty of work being done by poor people in Mexico and China that could be done by poor people here.  

The rich would just have to settle for a few less Dressage Horsies..


----------



## Gadawg73

JoeB131 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> Ignorance and irresponsibility in some communities where 50 years of government "support" has destroyed the family causes high mortality rates.
> Fully supported by the left to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Works on the faulty assumption that the poor family would stay together if the government didn't support them.
> 
> poor families don't stay together because they usually don't have anything to plant their flag on.
> 
> Not that middle class families do any better, the divorce rate is still something like 50%.
> 
> Let's be perfectly honest what social programs were. they were 'Please don't riot like you did in the 1960's" money.
> 
> There's plenty of work being done by poor people in Mexico and China that could be done by poor people here.
> 
> The rich would just have to settle for a few less Dressage Horsies..
Click to expand...


What do the rich have to do with 75% of black babies born without a father in the house? Blame the rich for someone else sticking their Johnson in a woman's snatch. That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard as you just broke your record.


----------



## Gadawg73

If you leftists took all the money, time and resources bitching about the rich and used it to help the poor in your own communities instead of sitting on your asses you might make a difference.


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> [
> 
> What do the rich have to do with 75% of black babies born without a father in the house? Blame the rich for someone else sticking their Johnson in a woman's snatch. That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard as you just broke your record.



Oh, in your world, all white people wait until marriage to have sex?  

Really? 

Guy, the thing is, it really kind of sucked to be poor before the Great Society.  The Great Society just made it suck a little less, but it also gave the rubes someone to hate.


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> If you leftists took all the money, time and resources bitching about the rich and used it to help the poor in your own communities instead of sitting on your asses you might make a difference.



Why? If we did, the rich would just find new ways to abuse them... and us. 

Hey, let's talk about one of the big abuses of poor people.  The Payday Loan industry.  

Or how big corporations are marketting gambling at poor people. (Whew... good thing they fucked up their ability to understand math first.)  

First biggest problem in this country is income inequality. Fix that, everything else falls into place. 

The Europeans have figured this out.  We had figured it out in the 1960's and then we forgot it worked.


----------



## freedombecki

JoeB131 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you leftists took all the money, time and resources bitching about the rich and used it to help the poor in your own communities instead of sitting on your asses you might make a difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why? If we did, the rich would just find new ways to abuse them... and us.
> 
> Hey, let's talk about one of the big abuses of poor people. The Payday Loan industry.
> 
> Or how big corporations are marketting gambling at poor people. (Whew... good thing they fucked up their ability to understand math first.)
> 
> First biggest problem in this country is income inequality. Fix that, everything else falls into place.
> 
> The Europeans have figured this out. We had figured it out in the 1960's and then we forgot it worked.
Click to expand...

Why have an abuse complex, Joe? You can break away!


----------



## JoeB131

freedombecki said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you leftists took all the money, time and resources bitching about the rich and used it to help the poor in your own communities instead of sitting on your asses you might make a difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why? If we did, the rich would just find new ways to abuse them... and us.
> 
> Hey, let's talk about one of the big abuses of poor people. The Payday Loan industry.
> 
> Or how big corporations are marketting gambling at poor people. (Whew... good thing they fucked up their ability to understand math first.)
> 
> First biggest problem in this country is income inequality. Fix that, everything else falls into place.
> 
> The Europeans have figured this out. We had figured it out in the 1960's and then we forgot it worked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why have an abuse complex, Joe? You can break away!
Click to expand...


Stop the abuse, I won't find it that "complex".


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

JoeB131 said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> NO, Cigna just goes ahead and denies people liver transplants or tells employers to fire employees that get sick.
> 
> Hey, guy, the idea of health care is NOT to make investors rich.
> 
> It's to provide care to patients.
> 
> Are you some kind of retard?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For someone who "claims" to do a lot of research, you are rather ill informed about what is going on regarding national health care. You honestly believe that a government controlled health care system won't deny treatment, that they are somehow BETTER than the private sector?
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, you go by anecdote...  I can come up with plenty of anecdotes about people screwed over by our system.
> 
> I go by raw figures- The Brits live longer, spend less, have less babies dies in infancy, less people go bankrupt when they get sick.
Click to expand...


I go by facts of problems that ARE found through a national health care system. Obviously I'm the only one that has done any research on the subject. You have yet to provide anything other than your "claim" of raw facts, none of which disproves what I have already provided, SUPPORTED by links. Let me know when you have the "ability" to provide supported facts, as you haven't proven anything.


----------



## JoeB131

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> [
> 
> I go by facts of problems that ARE found through a national health care system. Obviously I'm the only one that has done any research on the subject. You have yet to provide anything other than your "claim" of raw facts, none of which disproves what I have already provided, SUPPORTED by links. Let me know when you have the "ability" to provide supported facts, as you haven't proven anything.



Guy, posting to LiberTardian websites isn't presenting facts...


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

Iceman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> [quote
> 
> You seem to overlook that businesses have been exempt until next year....wanna guess how much the numbers rise then?  Hmmmmm?
> The numbers who are benefiting are those on medicare and medicaid....(not paying in)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean businesses that weren't getting the job done, either.
> 
> Look, guy, there was a simple enough solution to it. Universal health care with a single payer, get rid of all this bureaucracy of plans and deals and shit.
> 
> And you guys insisted up and down that we had to have private sector insurance involved.
> 
> The rest of the world has figured this out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So let me get this straight, we spend double the rest of the world, and we need to have medicaid/medicare for all?
> 
> That makes no sense.
Click to expand...


Joe is only recycling the same limited one sided talking points than he is citing any real "knowledge" concerning government vs private health care. I have already disproved some of his points with supported facts, but he'd rather repeat his same 'ol contrived message. In fact, he comes off as more of a brochure ad for Obamacare if you listen to him long enough.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

JoeB131 said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> I go by facts of problems that ARE found through a national health care system. Obviously I'm the only one that has done any research on the subject. You have yet to provide anything other than your "claim" of raw facts, none of which disproves what I have already provided, SUPPORTED by links. Let me know when you have the "ability" to provide supported facts, as you haven't proven anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guy, posting to LiberTardian websites isn't presenting facts...
Click to expand...


Prove to me that the links I provided came from a Libertarian website. The NHS links came from sources in Great Britain NOT FOX news, and the information concerning Canada allowing for private health care came from Canada's Supreme Court you idiot! "I have done plenty of research" my ass, you don't have the slightest clue. You are just hate being proven wrong, and that's a fact. Otherwise you'd find no objections in providing YOUR research, or rather the lack there of  ... to disprove my points. You're not fooling anybody but yourself.


----------



## JoeB131

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> [
> 
> Prove to me that the links I provided came from a Libertarian website. The NHS links came from sources in Great Britain NOT FOX news, and the information concerning Canada allowing for private health care came from Canada's Supreme Court you idiot! "I have done plenty of research" my ass, you don't have the slightest clue. You are just hate being proven wrong, and that's a fact. Otherwise you'd find no objections in providing YOUR research, or rather the lack there of  ... to disprove my points. You're not fooling anybody but yourself.



When someone calls himself "Shackles of Big GOvernment", I already assume I am dealing with a nutcase who sees black helicopters, and I really don't pay much attention to anything he has to say. 

Canada still has single payer, and not even teh Conservatives are trying to get rid of it. the UK still has nationalized health care, and no one is trying to get away from that either. 

We spend the most, we get the worst results.  We are just plain doing it wrong, but big insurance companies and the Koch brothers got dumbasses like you thinking you are going to lose your freedom if the government runs it instead of a big insurance company that probably would rather have you die to increase their profit margin.


----------



## Gadawg73

JoeB131 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> What do the rich have to do with 75% of black babies born without a father in the house? Blame the rich for someone else sticking their Johnson in a woman's snatch. That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard as you just broke your record.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, in your world, all white people wait until marriage to have sex?
> 
> Really?
> 
> Guy, the thing is, it really kind of sucked to be poor before the Great Society.  The Great Society just made it suck a little less, but it also gave the rubes someone to hate.
Click to expand...


Where did I say that and leave all white people or anyone out of the equation?
Thanks for proving my point as add in all the whites in there also and there you have it.
You are the one supporting creating MORE poor folks. You fully believe government can lift people out of poverty.
Show us one example where that has worked over the last 50 years, in what program?
We are worse off now after trillions spent.


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> What do the rich have to do with 75% of black babies born without a father in the house? Blame the rich for someone else sticking their Johnson in a woman's snatch. That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard as you just broke your record.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, in your world, all white people wait until marriage to have sex?
> 
> Really?
> 
> Guy, the thing is, it really kind of sucked to be poor before the Great Society.  The Great Society just made it suck a little less, but it also gave the rubes someone to hate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where did I say that and leave all white people or anyone out of the equation?
> Thanks for proving my point as add in all the whites in there also and there you have it.
> You are the one supporting creating MORE poor folks. You fully believe government can lift people out of poverty.
> Show us one example where that has worked over the last 50 years, in what program?
> We are worse off now after trillions spent.
Click to expand...


No, I don't think that at all.  

I was pointing out the absurdity of your comment.  While I am sure there is still a white person who is "saving it for marriage" out there somewhere, the fact is, most white folks are having sex outside of marriage. 

The difference, of course, is that they have access to health care and family planning. 

What is creating more poor folks is the greed of the wealthy.  

If they hadn't moved those factories to China and Mexico, those poor black folks who maybe don't have the education would still have decent jobs.


----------



## Gadawg73

JoeB131 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, in your world, all white people wait until marriage to have sex?
> 
> Really?
> 
> Guy, the thing is, it really kind of sucked to be poor before the Great Society.  The Great Society just made it suck a little less, but it also gave the rubes someone to hate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where did I say that and leave all white people or anyone out of the equation?
> Thanks for proving my point as add in all the whites in there also and there you have it.
> You are the one supporting creating MORE poor folks. You fully believe government can lift people out of poverty.
> Show us one example where that has worked over the last 50 years, in what program?
> We are worse off now after trillions spent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I don't think that at all.
> 
> I was pointing out the absurdity of your comment.  While I am sure there is still a white person who is "saving it for marriage" out there somewhere, the fact is, most white folks are having sex outside of marriage.
> 
> The difference, of course, is that they have access to health care and family planning.
> 
> What is creating more poor folks is the greed of the wealthy.
> 
> If they hadn't moved those factories to China and Mexico, those poor black folks who maybe don't have the education would still have decent jobs.
Click to expand...


I am not talking about "having sex".
I am talking about having children out of wedlock when you can not afford them.
That is the problem with you leftists. You never go the point and head of any problem.


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where did I say that and leave all white people or anyone out of the equation?
> Thanks for proving my point as add in all the whites in there also and there you have it.
> You are the one supporting creating MORE poor folks. You fully believe government can lift people out of poverty.
> Show us one example where that has worked over the last 50 years, in what program?
> We are worse off now after trillions spent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I don't think that at all.
> 
> I was pointing out the absurdity of your comment.  While I am sure there is still a white person who is "saving it for marriage" out there somewhere, the fact is, most white folks are having sex outside of marriage.
> 
> The difference, of course, is that they have access to health care and family planning.
> 
> What is creating more poor folks is the greed of the wealthy.
> 
> If they hadn't moved those factories to China and Mexico, those poor black folks who maybe don't have the education would still have decent jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not talking about "having sex".
> I am talking about having children out of wedlock when you can not afford them.
> That is the problem with you leftists. You never go the point and head of any problem.
Click to expand...


Universal health care, free abortions, free birth control.  

That would be getting ahead of the problem. 

But if you think there are poor blacks who are having babies for welfare checks, well, that's just a little racist.


----------



## Votto

ron4342 said:


> After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there) and that if the republicans wanted to remain relevant they needed to change also. The recommendation was that the republican party needs to actively work toward bringing Hispanics into the party.
> They have a perfect chance to do that now but I fully expect that the republican party will once again shoot themselves in the foot. What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do. This places the republicans in a bind. Should they strongly support a sweeping immigration plan (similar to what Obama is offering) OR should they dig in their heels and refuse to accept any plan Obama offers just as they have done throughout the last five years.
> I am betting that the republicans will dig in their heels and refuse to offer a plan similar to Obama's. In other words, they will once again play the obstruction card and in the process slap the people who could help them win elections in the face. And then, after losing the Hispanic vote by a wide margin in 2014, they will once again scratch their heads and ask "Why did we lose? I don't understand."



Maybe if they tightened voting up by actually forcing people to prove they are citizens before voting it would change the demographics a bit.


----------



## Gadawg73

So people are having babies they can not feed because they are out of work.
LOL, that is about as fucked up logic as I have ever heard.
"I ain't got no money so I am having more babies"
Typical liberal logic, make it up as you go and blame someone else.


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> So people are having babies they can not feed because they are out of work.
> LOL, that is about as fucked up logic as I have ever heard.
> "I ain't got no money so I am having more babies"
> Typical liberal logic, make it up as you go and blame someone else.



No, they have babies because they don't have access to family planning like white folks do. 

And a large part of that is because people on your side want to constantly slash funding to planned parenthood because someone at that office might have said "abortion" once.


----------



## Gadawg73

The problem is women having babies they can not feed.
A condom costs 50 cents. 
Birth control for a year would be $24.
I liked the show Oprah did years ago with a dozen women with kids and no father from the inner city. Oprah is NO conservative. Oprah was brilliant with her presentation. She visited the public housing each of these 12 women lived in. None worked and all were on public assistance. Each residence had a big screen TV, each women had a cell phone and half of them smoked. 
On the last part of the show in the studio Oprah went around and asked each one where they got the money to buy the gold chains they were wearing and specifically one of them who had on the newest and latest $200 Nike basketball shoes on. Another had an expensive leather coat. 
And the left claims these women do not have $24 a year to buy condoms. 
We have become a nation of village idiots.


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> The problem is women having babies they can not feed.
> A condom costs 50 cents.
> Birth control for a year would be $24.
> I liked the show Oprah did years ago with a dozen women with kids and no father from the inner city. Oprah is NO conservative. Oprah was brilliant with her presentation. She visited the public housing each of these 12 women lived in. None worked and all were on public assistance. Each residence had a big screen TV, each women had a cell phone and half of them smoked.
> On the last part of the show in the studio Oprah went around and asked each one where they got the money to buy the gold chains they were wearing and specifically one of them who had on the newest and latest $200 Nike basketball shoes on. Another had an expensive leather coat.
> And the left claims these women do not have $24 a year to buy condoms.
> We have become a nation of village idiots.



Why don't you drive your Lexus down to the projects and preach the evangile of personal responsiblity to them. 

That should be amusing.


----------



## Gadawg73

JoeB131 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So people are having babies they can not feed because they are out of work.
> LOL, that is about as fucked up logic as I have ever heard.
> "I ain't got no money so I am having more babies"
> Typical liberal logic, make it up as you go and blame someone else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they have babies because they don't have access to family planning like white folks do.
> 
> And a large part of that is because people on your side want to constantly slash funding to planned parenthood because someone at that office might have said "abortion" once.
Click to expand...


LOL, so someone else has to plan their family for them and they do not know that if a man sticks his Johnson in the woman and releases his sperm a baby will come next.
Because they do not have $24 a year for condoms.
This is a fucked up country if folks are that stupid but you are probably right about that.
People that dumb have NO business having any kids ever.


----------



## Gadawg73

JoeB131 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is women having babies they can not feed.
> A condom costs 50 cents.
> Birth control for a year would be $24.
> I liked the show Oprah did years ago with a dozen women with kids and no father from the inner city. Oprah is NO conservative. Oprah was brilliant with her presentation. She visited the public housing each of these 12 women lived in. None worked and all were on public assistance. Each residence had a big screen TV, each women had a cell phone and half of them smoked.
> On the last part of the show in the studio Oprah went around and asked each one where they got the money to buy the gold chains they were wearing and specifically one of them who had on the newest and latest $200 Nike basketball shoes on. Another had an expensive leather coat.
> And the left claims these women do not have $24 a year to buy condoms.
> We have become a nation of village idiots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you drive your Lexus down to the projects and preach the evangile of personal responsiblity to them.
> 
> That should be amusing.
Click to expand...


I do not own a Lexus.
I drive a 1999 Toyota with 300,000+ miles on it.
I coached 52 rec teams over a 21 year period. 7 boys received Division 1 full scholarships, 18 small college scholarships. 1 plays in the NBA now for the Washington Wizards and was a 1st round pick. As a youth he had no father in the home and I would help his mother with transportation for Chris. Another played 1 year in pro football starting 2 years at an ACC university at QB and injuries ended his career. Another went to Ga. Tech and signed a $750,000 contract out of college for the Padres. I started the indigent silent fund in the rec football league. Every kid plays and no one knows but the board who those kids are and I ended the practice where the parent had to work extra concession duty if they did not have the money. Twice over a 9 year period in one rec league I audited the books and found money had been stolen and raised the money back for the league. One of those times The Atlanta Falcons with Billy "White Shoes" and I conducted a football clinic that raised 15K for the league to recover those stolen funds. I sponsor a family in need and provide food for them. I work for the indigent defense department at less than half my normal rate for many metro Atlanta counties helping poor defendants with their criminal cases. I help with AA and NA. I am a member of the Lions Club and we provide free eye examinations to kids and get them glasses and raise money for seeing eye dogs for the blind. I am a long time defender of the rights of everyone no matter who they are.
All the while I hear others that sit on their ass cry "We need more tax money to help the poor" because they are too lazy to get off their lazy ass.
Instead of really helping the poor people they are telling the poor "Fuck you, call the government. I am for the government forcing you to wait in line for hours and send you a check in a few weeks. Fuck you, I am too busy to help you".
Govern yourself accordingly.


----------



## Neotrotsky

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you make me chicken shit.
> Cock sucker that son of a bitch thinks those countries are so great why don't you and the bitch move there together.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I served this country, son, and you did not.  Those are good countries, but America is better, and since my day in part, with all Veterans, is this Monday, think about this who protected your ass because you wouldn't serve.
> 
> Yah, keep talking to the tool in the mirror.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know you're lying toad we've been through this before. Remember that ABGD?
Click to expand...


nice...

Besides this reactionary leftist has been caught a couple of times before
in lies- see here-  too funny 


From the lies of Papa Obama to the lies of the reactionary left
American Trust has died. Is the Left lying now or were they
just lying then... so sad how extreme the Democrats have become


As one can see, it is true
the 'fish rots from the head down '


----------



## Neotrotsky

JoeB131 said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> Not at all- what's to avoid?
> same worthless reactionary leftist talking points, I hear all the time.
> 
> What proof is there that life expectancy and money spent are directly related?
> For that case, we spend more gov't money on education than any other western country
> and we get some of the worst results.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We get the worst results because our education system is still segregated between the haves and the have nots.  Kind of like the health care system.
Click to expand...


Oh you mean...
 like when Papa Obama denies future poor black kids from going
to the same private school as his daughters, by taking away their vouchers



JoeB131 said:


> Infant mortality, the same ones based on the garage UN stats...
> The same agency that loves to dump and belittle the US any chance they get, that one
> 
> How other countries don't count low birthweight babies who die but, we do
> Some European countries require a baby be alive 26 weeks to be counted as alive
> Some in Europe do it based on size 30 centimeters (12 inches) long to be declared &#8220;alive&#8221;
> Some countries if a baby dies within 24 hours, it is considered still born
> Probably the same reason these countries have very high stillborn rates.  Some parts of Europe, it is very high





Neotrotsky said:


> Again, this is the typical trope brought out by Wingnuts that "Oh, no, our infant mortality problem isn't that bad beacuse the Europeans don't count preemies."   It's a bullshit excuse.



Sure, even the crappy UN ones can't cover up that they have a rather high
rate of still births. No doubt if they thought about it, they would have manipulated
that data as well. 

Really, if you had no good argument for this one, you should have just said so...




JoeB131 said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is the left still trying to claim that ObamaCare will not add to the National Debt?
> It is so hard to keep up with all of the lies from the left, these days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And there he goes trying to change the subject again.
Click to expand...




Not at all, no doubt this will be one of the reasons Republicans will lose in 2014 and
thread is on that subject


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So people are having babies they can not feed because they are out of work.
> LOL, that is about as fucked up logic as I have ever heard.
> "I ain't got no money so I am having more babies"
> Typical liberal logic, make it up as you go and blame someone else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they have babies because they don't have access to family planning like white folks do.
> 
> And a large part of that is because people on your side want to constantly slash funding to planned parenthood because someone at that office might have said "abortion" once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL, so someone else has to plan their family for them and they do not know that if a man sticks his Johnson in the woman and releases his sperm a baby will come next.
> Because they do not have $24 a year for condoms.
> This is a fucked up country if folks are that stupid but you are probably right about that.
> People that dumb have NO business having any kids ever.
Click to expand...


If pregnancy were left up to the men, the birth rate would drop. 

It the family planning were left up to the men, it would skyrocket. 

If you really think they are making babies for welfare benefits, you really don't understand the psychology of poverty.


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> [
> 
> I do not own a Lexus.
> I drive a 1999 Toyota with 300,000+ miles on it.
> I coached 52 rec teams over a 21 year period. 7 boys received Division 1 full scholarships, 18 small college scholarships. 1 plays in the NBA now for the Washington Wizards and was a 1st round pick. As a youth he had no father in the home and I would help his mother with transportation for Chris. Another played 1 year in pro football starting 2 years at an ACC university at QB and injuries ended his career. Another went to Ga. Tech and signed a $750,000 contract out of college for the Padres. I started the indigent silent fund in the rec football league. Every kid plays and no one knows but the board who those kids are and I ended the practice where the parent had to work extra concession duty if they did not have the money. Twice over a 9 year period in one rec league I audited the books and found money had been stolen and raised the money back for the league. One of those times The Atlanta Falcons with Billy "White Shoes" and I conducted a football clinic that raised 15K for the league to recover those stolen funds. I sponsor a family in need and provide food for them. I work for the indigent defense department at less than half my normal rate for many metro Atlanta counties helping poor defendants with their criminal cases. I help with AA and NA. I am a member of the Lions Club and we provide free eye examinations to kids and get them glasses and raise money for seeing eye dogs for the blind. I am a long time defender of the rights of everyone no matter who they are.
> All the while I hear others that sit on their ass cry "We need more tax money to help the poor" because they are too lazy to get off their lazy ass.
> Instead of really helping the poor people they are telling the poor "Fuck you, call the government. I am for the government forcing you to wait in line for hours and send you a check in a few weeks. Fuck you, I am too busy to help you".
> Govern yourself accordingly.



I always assumed that you drove a Lexus because they are the kind of car self-important douchebags tend to drive. 

But, yeah, here comes the same tiresome, "I totally did a solid for a poor person once" testimonials we get from you after you spend half a page defending rich douchebaggery.


----------



## Neotrotsky

JoeB131 said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> Not at all- what's to avoid?
> same worthless reactionary leftist talking points, I hear all the time.
> 
> What proof is there that life expectancy and money spent are directly related?
> For that case, we spend more gov't money on education than any other western country
> and we get some of the worst results.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We get the worst results because our education system is still segregated between the haves and the have nots.  Kind of like the health care system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Infant mortality, the same ones based on the garage UN stats...
> The same agency that loves to dump and belittle the US any chance they get, that one
> 
> How other countries don't count low birthweight babies who die but, we do
> Some European countries require a baby be alive 26 weeks to be counted as alive
> Some in Europe do it based on size 30 centimeters (12 inches) long to be declared alive
> Some countries if a baby dies within 24 hours, it is considered still born
> Probably the same reason these countries have very high stillborn rates.  Some parts of Europe, it is very high
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, this is the typical trope brought out by Wingnuts that "Oh, no, our infant mortality problem isn't that bad beacuse the Europeans don't count preemies."   It's a bullshit excuse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is the left still trying to claim that ObamaCare will not add to the National Debt?
> It is so hard to keep up with all of the lies from the left, these days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And there he goes trying to change the subject again.
Click to expand...




JoeB131 said:


> NeoTrollsky, I was a republican, until I realized that they only worked for the rich.
> 
> My embarrassment at having to admit my Union THug brother in law was right aside, that's what it was.
> 
> I frankly don't know how anyone could still be a Republican after 2008.



Union?

Does he belong to any of these?
No doubt, another reason the Republicans are going to lose in 2012



Union Letter: Obamacare Will Destroy The Very Health and Wellbeing of Workers

On behalf of the millions of working men and women we represent and the families they support, we can no longer stand silent in the face of elements of the Affordable Care Act that will destroy the very health and wellbeing of our members along with millions of other hardworking Americans.

We believe that there are common-sense corrections that can be made within the existing statute that will allow our members to continue to keep their current health plans and benefits just as you and the President pledged. Unless changes are made, however, that promise is hollow.

We continue to stand behind real health care reform, but the law as it stands will hurt millions of Americans including the members of our respective unions.

We are looking to you to make sure these changes are made.

James P. Hoffa
General President
International Brotherhood of Teamsters

Joseph Hansen
International President
UFCW

D. Taylor
President
UNITE-HERE​


----------



## Toro

JoeB131 said:


> I always assumed that you drove a Lexus because they are the kind of car self-important douchebags tend to drive.
> 
> But, yeah, here comes the same tiresome, "I totally did a solid for a poor person once" testimonials we get from you after you spend half a page defending rich douchebaggery.



I drive a Lexus.

lol


Here's how much I care what you think about it.

0


----------



## JoeB131

Toro said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I always assumed that you drove a Lexus *because they are the kind of car self-important douchebags tend to drive.
> 
> But, yeah, here comes the same tiresome, "I totally did a solid for a poor person once" testimonials we get from you after you spend half a page defending rich douchebaggery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I drive a Lexus.*
> lol
> 
> 
> Here's how much I care what you think about it.
> 
> 0
Click to expand...


Totally proving my point.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Nice

Expect more of the class envy crap from the left this next elections cycle.
Since they know they will probably not be able to run on the "successes" of Papa Obama,
expect to hear more about 'corporate jets'  and such. More of the useless, class envy crap...

They will cry about the middle class while the same policies of the reactionary left
destroy the middle class.


----------



## Toro

JoeB131 said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I always assumed that you drove a Lexus *because they are the kind of car self-important douchebags tend to drive.
> 
> But, yeah, here comes the same tiresome, "I totally did a solid for a poor person once" testimonials we get from you after you spend half a page defending rich douchebaggery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I drive a Lexus.*
> lol
> 
> 
> Here's how much I care what you think about it.
> 
> 0
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Totally proving my point.
Click to expand...


Totally DISproving your point, you mean.

I'm awesome.


----------



## Iceman

JoeB131 said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I always assumed that you drove a Lexus *because they are the kind of car self-important douchebags tend to drive.
> 
> But, yeah, here comes the same tiresome, "I totally did a solid for a poor person once" testimonials we get from you after you spend half a page defending rich douchebaggery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I drive a Lexus.*
> lol
> 
> 
> Here's how much I care what you think about it.
> 
> 0
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Totally proving my point.
Click to expand...

Piss on American cars. The only badass ones are the Mustang, Challenger, and Camaro; the rest are horseshit. The Japanese make a good car you patriotard unionist dipshit.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Iceman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I drive a Lexus.*
> lol
> 
> 
> Here's how much I care what you think about it.
> 
> 0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totally proving my point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Piss on American cars. The only badass ones are the Mustang, Challenger, and Camaro; the rest are horseshit. The Japanese make a good car you patriotard unionist dipshit.
Click to expand...


The Left needs the Volt to feel "badass"


----------



## JoeB131

Toro said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I drive a Lexus.*
> lol
> 
> 
> Here's how much I care what you think about it.
> 
> 0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totally proving my point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Totally DISproving your point, you mean.
> 
> I'm awesome.
Click to expand...


Sorry, man, you've engaged in so much Doucebaggery here I'm thinking about referring to you by one of the brand names. 

Hey, maybe you can start whining about how I was mean to Mormons last year.  That shit never gets old.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Toro said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I drive a Lexus.*
> lol
> 
> 
> Here's how much I care what you think about it.
> 
> 0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totally proving my point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Totally DISproving your point, you mean.
> 
> I'm awesome.
Click to expand...


He has car envy


----------



## Toro

Neotrotsky said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Totally proving my point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totally DISproving your point, you mean.
> 
> I'm awesome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He has car envy
Click to expand...


Amongst many, many other things.


----------



## JoeB131

Toro said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Totally DISproving your point, you mean.
> 
> I'm awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He has car envy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Amongst many, many other things.
Click to expand...


No, I just get annoyed when douchebags in Lexuses (Lexi?) go weaving about through traffic cutting off regular working folks just trying to get to their jobs.  

Seriously, put a guy behind the wheel of a Lexus---- instant douchebag.  

Now, a Mormon behind the wheel of a Lexus, that's universe collapsing levels of douchebaggery.


----------



## Iceman

JoeB131 said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> He has car envy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amongst many, many other things.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I just get annoyed when douchebags in Lexuses (Lexi?) go weaving about through traffic cutting off regular working folks just trying to get to their jobs.
> 
> Seriously, put a guy behind the wheel of a Lexus---- instant douchebag.
> 
> Now, a Mormon behind the wheel of a Lexus, that's universe collapsing levels of douchebaggery.
Click to expand...


Piss on "regular folks" as well. They are the reason this society is shit. They at the very least deserve to get cut off.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Iceman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amongst many, many other things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I just get annoyed when douchebags in Lexuses (Lexi?) go weaving about through traffic cutting off regular working folks just trying to get to their jobs.
> 
> Seriously, put a guy behind the wheel of a Lexus---- instant douchebag.
> 
> Now, a Mormon behind the wheel of a Lexus, that's universe collapsing levels of douchebaggery.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Piss on "regular folks" as well. They are the reason this society is shit. They at the very least deserve to get cut off.
Click to expand...

http://www.usmessageboard.com/usercp.php
Besides, with the economic havoc Papa Obama's policies have created, there are a lot less "regular working folks' on the road. 

No doubt, another reason the Republicans are going to lose big come 2014


----------



## Toro

JoeB131 said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> He has car envy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amongst many, many other things.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I just get annoyed when douchebags in Lexuses (Lexi?) go weaving about through traffic cutting off regular working folks just trying to get to their jobs.
> 
> Seriously, put a guy behind the wheel of a Lexus---- instant douchebag.
> 
> Now, a Mormon behind the wheel of a Lexus, that's universe collapsing levels of douchebaggery.
Click to expand...


There should be a separate lane, or even highway, for all of us who drive luxury cars.  The rest of you should be thankful that our tax dollars pay for your highways and be happy with just one lane.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Neotrotsky said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> I served this country, son, and you did not.  Those are good countries, but America is better, and since my day in part, with all Veterans, is this Monday, think about this who protected your ass because you wouldn't serve.
> 
> Yah, keep talking to the tool in the mirror.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know you're lying toad we've been through this before. Remember that ABGD?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> nice...
> 
> Besides this reactionary leftist has been caught a couple of times before
> in lies- see here-  too funny
> 
> From the lies of Papa Obama to the lies of the reactionary left
> American Trust has died. Is the Left lying now or were they
> just lying then... so sad how extreme the Democrats have become
> 
> As one can see, it is true
> the 'fish rots from the head down '
Click to expand...


  I got it wrong.  Doesn't matter.  But your lies do, and we have had fun outing you, little buddy.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Neotrotsky said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I just get annoyed when douchebags in Lexuses (Lexi?) go weaving about through traffic cutting off regular working folks just trying to get to their jobs.
> 
> Seriously, put a guy behind the wheel of a Lexus---- instant douchebag.
> 
> Now, a Mormon behind the wheel of a Lexus, that's universe collapsing levels of douchebaggery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Piss on "regular folks" as well. They are the reason this society is shit. They at the very least deserve to get cut off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/usercp.php
> Besides, with the economic havoc Papa Obama's policies have created, there are a lot less "regular working folks' on the road.
> 
> No doubt, another reason the Republicans are going to lose big come 2014
Click to expand...


The GOP is going to win because we are minimalizing the output and influence of the libertarians, the Neo-Right, and the TeaPs.

Is what is.


----------



## Iceman

JakeStarkey said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Piss on "regular folks" as well. They are the reason this society is shit. They at the very least deserve to get cut off.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/usercp.php
> Besides, with the economic havoc Papa Obama's policies have created, there are a lot less "regular working folks' on the road.
> 
> No doubt, another reason the Republicans are going to lose big come 2014
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The GOP is going to win because we are minimalizing the output and influence of the libertarians, the Neo-Right, and the TeaPs.
> 
> Is what is.
Click to expand...

You want to make a bet for 2016? Thousand Dollars a Democrat wins the Presidency, no matter what "moderate" you put up.


----------



## Neotrotsky

*One more reason why republicans will lose big in 2014*

Racist, Healthcare-Hating Senator From A Former Confederate State Calls For Full-Blown Investigation Into Obamacare Failures 
h/t Ace of Spades

Sickening the lengths some of these _hyper-political obstructionists/extremists_ will go to in an effort to discredit our president.

_Sen. Kay Hagan (D-N.C.) will ask two oversight agencies for a full-blown investigation into the problems surrounding the ObamaCare launch.
Hagan, who is up for reelection in 2014, is asking her Senate colleagues to co-sign a letter asking two agencies to conduct &#8220;a complete, thorough investigation to determine the causes of the design and implementation failures of HealthCare.Gov.&#8221;

&#8220;These problems are simply unacceptable, and Americans deserve answers and swift solutions,&#8221; Hagan writes in a letter obtained by The Hill. &#8220;Taxpayers are owed a full and transparent accounting of how the vendors contracted to build the site failed to launch it successfully.&#8221;​_


----------



## JoeB131

Toro said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amongst many, many other things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I just get annoyed when douchebags in Lexuses (Lexi?) go weaving about through traffic cutting off regular working folks just trying to get to their jobs.
> 
> Seriously, put a guy behind the wheel of a Lexus---- instant douchebag.
> 
> Now, a Mormon behind the wheel of a Lexus, that's universe collapsing levels of douchebaggery.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There should be a separate lane, or even highway, for all of us who drive luxury cars.  The rest of you should be thankful that our tax dollars pay for your highways and be happy with just one lane.
Click to expand...


I agree, there should be a separate lane for luxury cars that leads to a re-education camp... 

Works for me.


----------



## Iceman

JoeB131 said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I just get annoyed when douchebags in Lexuses (Lexi?) go weaving about through traffic cutting off regular working folks just trying to get to their jobs.
> 
> Seriously, put a guy behind the wheel of a Lexus---- instant douchebag.
> 
> Now, a Mormon behind the wheel of a Lexus, that's universe collapsing levels of douchebaggery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There should be a separate lane, or even highway, for all of us who drive luxury cars.  The rest of you should be thankful that our tax dollars pay for your highways and be happy with just one lane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree, there should be a separate lane for luxury cars that leads to a re-education camp...
> 
> Works for me.
Click to expand...


Loser...


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

JoeB131 said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> Prove to me that the links I provided came from a Libertarian website. The NHS links came from sources in Great Britain NOT FOX news, and the information concerning Canada allowing for private health care came from Canada's Supreme Court you idiot! "I have done plenty of research" my ass, you don't have the slightest clue. You are just hate being proven wrong, and that's a fact. Otherwise you'd find no objections in providing YOUR research, or rather the lack there of  ... to disprove my points. You're not fooling anybody but yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When someone calls himself "Shackles of Big GOvernment", I already assume I am dealing with a nutcase who sees black helicopters, and I really don't pay much attention to anything he has to say.
> 
> Canada still has single payer, and not even teh Conservatives are trying to get rid of it. the UK still has nationalized health care, and no one is trying to get away from that either.
> 
> We spend the most, we get the worst results.  We are just plain doing it wrong, but big insurance companies and the Koch brothers got dumbasses like you thinking you are going to lose your freedom if the government runs it instead of a big insurance company that probably would rather have you die to increase their profit margin.
Click to expand...


It's quite obvious you were never paying attention as my responses has never been focused on the government mandate. Yes I have seen you recycle the same talking point of "we spend the most per capita over any nation", however do you have enough *research* to engage in a discussion beyond that? Somehow I seriously doubt that. You indulge in goose bump fantasies, while I introduduce the reality of national health care as it stands in England and Canada.

Fact is, the Canadian Supreme Court in it's very ruling stated that government healthcare is inadequate to meet the needs of its people, and to withhold the choice for people to go BACK to private health care is unconstitutional. Patients don't feel they ought to accept extended wait times who's standards are worse than any other nation awaiting treatment.

It's also a known fact NHS in England is STILL battling cost issues, as government run healthcare has done absolutely nothing.... zero .... nada .... to reduce the expense associated with health care. Patients seeking treatment for cancer are finding themselves limited to options the NHS is allowing for them to take. Based on cost issues and rationing, other forms of cancer treatment is being DENIED BY THE GIVERNMENT. 

I have provided source links from resources within their respective countries, not Rush Limbough or Sean Hannity, or those other commentators who also have a political agenda behind their commentaries. My research doesn't come from any American Source. You can indulge in your fantasy of single payer, ACA, or any other form of government controlled system. However there comes a time when fantasy must make way for the "reality", from those who already and currently live under such a national system.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Shakles has provided source links to talking point agenda-driven irresponsible sites, except for #574.

Why is that?


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

JakeStarkey said:


> Shakles has provided source links to talking point agenda-driven irresponsible sites, except for #574.
> 
> Why is that?



Obviously your having trouble in the area of reading comprehension. Did I not just post how such link sources were previously provided? Don't try so hard in making your comments any more useless and irrelevant than they already are. It's bad enough you can't contribute anything "informative" to the discussion, let alone even know how to back up what you say.


----------



## Toro

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> Prove to me that the links I provided came from a Libertarian website. The NHS links came from sources in Great Britain NOT FOX news, and the information concerning Canada allowing for private health care came from Canada's Supreme Court you idiot! "I have done plenty of research" my ass, you don't have the slightest clue. You are just hate being proven wrong, and that's a fact. Otherwise you'd find no objections in providing YOUR research, or rather the lack there of  ... to disprove my points. You're not fooling anybody but yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When someone calls himself "Shackles of Big GOvernment", I already assume I am dealing with a nutcase who sees black helicopters, and I really don't pay much attention to anything he has to say.
> 
> Canada still has single payer, and not even teh Conservatives are trying to get rid of it. the UK still has nationalized health care, and no one is trying to get away from that either.
> 
> We spend the most, we get the worst results.  We are just plain doing it wrong, but big insurance companies and the Koch brothers got dumbasses like you thinking you are going to lose your freedom if the government runs it instead of a big insurance company that probably would rather have you die to increase their profit margin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's quite obvious you were never paying attention as my responses has never been focused on the government mandate. Yes I have seen you recycle the same talking point of "we spend the most per capita over any nation", however do you have enough *research* to engage in a discussion beyond that? Somehow I seriously doubt that. You indulge in goose bump fantasies, while I introduduce the reality of national health care as it stands in England and Canada.
> 
> Fact is, the Canadian Supreme Court in it's very ruling stated that government healthcare is inadequate to meet the needs of its people, and to withhold the choice for people to go BACK to private health care is unconstitutional. Patients don't feel they ought to accept extended wait times who's standards are worse than any other nation awaiting treatment.
> 
> It's also a known fact NHS in England is STILL battling cost issues, as government run healthcare has done absolutely nothing.... zero .... nada .... to reduce the expense associated with health care. Patients seeking treatment for cancer are finding themselves limited to options the NHS is allowing for them to take. Based on cost issues and rationing, other forms of cancer treatment is being DENIED BY THE GIVERNMENT.
> 
> I have provided source links from resources within their respective countries, not Rush Limbough or Sean Hannity, or those other commentators who also have a political agenda behind their commentaries. My research doesn't come from any American Source. You can indulge in your fantasy of single payer, ACA, or any other form of government controlled system. However there comes a time when fantasy must make way for the "reality", from those who already and currently live under such a national system.
Click to expand...


There is still no competing private health insurance scheme in Canada.


----------



## Toro

JoeB131 said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I just get annoyed when douchebags in Lexuses (Lexi?) go weaving about through traffic cutting off regular working folks just trying to get to their jobs.
> 
> Seriously, put a guy behind the wheel of a Lexus---- instant douchebag.
> 
> Now, a Mormon behind the wheel of a Lexus, that's universe collapsing levels of douchebaggery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There should be a separate lane, or even highway, for all of us who drive luxury cars.  The rest of you should be thankful that our tax dollars pay for your highways and be happy with just one lane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree, there should be a separate lane for luxury cars that leads to a re-education camp...
> 
> Works for me.
Click to expand...


Communists are big on re-eduction camps, &#1090;&#1086;&#1074;&#1072;&#1088;&#1080;&#1097;.


----------



## JoeB131

Toro said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> There should be a separate lane, or even highway, for all of us who drive luxury cars.  The rest of you should be thankful that our tax dollars pay for your highways and be happy with just one lane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, there should be a separate lane for luxury cars that leads to a re-education camp...
> 
> Works for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Communists are big on re-eduction camps, &#1090;&#1086;&#1074;&#1072;&#1088;&#1080;&#1097;.
Click to expand...


See, now I was going to thank you for the previous post, but again, I'm sure you'll add this to the "taken out of context" list...


----------



## Neotrotsky

*One more reason why republicans will lose big in 2014*

Right wing CNN
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7y194ulyfg]CNN: ObamaCare Enrollment Numbers Are "Embarrassing" For Obama - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## JakeStarkey

> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shakles has provided source links to talking point agenda-driven irresponsible sites, except for #574.
> 
> Why is that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's bad enough you can't contribute anything "informative" to the discussion, let alone even know how to back up what you say.
Click to expand...


The previous links?  What previous links, son?  You don't have the confidence of the folks on the board to do that.

I will take that as an admission that "you got caught."


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

JakeStarkey said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shakles has provided source links to talking point agenda-driven irresponsible sites, except for #574.
> 
> Why is that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's bad enough you can't contribute anything "informative" to the discussion, let alone even know how to back up what you say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The previous links?  What previous links, son?  You don't have the confidence of the folks on the board to do that.
> 
> I will take that as an admission that "you got caught."
Click to expand...


If you had actually been "contributing" something useful to the discussion and able to follow along, you'd already know that's been provided under posts #451 and #464. Obviously you'd rather jump in the middle of a discussion and attempt to criticize instead of engaging in anything useful to the topic at hand.


----------



## Gadawg73

I like how Joe lists himself as "Eisenhower Republican"
Yeah right.
"I despise people who go to the gutter on either the right or the left and hurl rocks at those in the center"


----------



## JakeStarkey

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's bad enough you can't contribute anything "informative" to the discussion, let alone even know how to back up what you say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The previous links?  What previous links, son?  You don't have the confidence of the folks on the board to do that.
> 
> I will take that as an admission that "you got caught."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you had actually been "contributing" something useful to the discussion and able to follow along, you'd already know that's been provided under posts #451 and #464. Obviously you'd rather jump in the middle of a discussion and attempt to criticize instead of engaging in anything useful to the topic at hand.
Click to expand...


Your previous links give us opinion not proof.

Now give us proof, son, or you continue to FAIL


----------



## JoeB131

Gadawg73 said:


> I like how Joe lists himself as "Eisenhower Republican"
> Yeah right.
> "I despise people who go to the gutter on either the right or the left and hurl rocks at those in the center"



Ike was referring to McCarthyism and radical communists... 

Sadly, he wouldn't be welcome in today's Republican Party, which is mostly about rich people  manipulating religious idiots into voting against their own economic interests.


----------



## Meister

Gadawg73 said:


> I like how Joe lists himself as "Eisenhower Republican"
> Yeah right.
> "I despise people who go to the gutter on either the right or the left and hurl rocks at those in the center"



Joe is Woodrow WIlson democrat


----------



## JoeB131

Meister said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like how Joe lists himself as "Eisenhower Republican"
> Yeah right.
> "I despise people who go to the gutter on either the right or the left and hurl rocks at those in the center"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe is Woodrow WIlson democrat
Click to expand...


Not really, because I don't think America needs to get involved in everyone else's problems like he did.


----------



## Spoonman

JoeB131 said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like how Joe lists himself as "Eisenhower Republican"
> Yeah right.
> "I despise people who go to the gutter on either the right or the left and hurl rocks at those in the center"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe is Woodrow WIlson democrat
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not really, because I don't think America needs to get involved in everyone else's problems like he did.
Click to expand...


I sure hope you wrote to the idiot in the oval office and asked him to stop meddling in Egypt, Libya and Syria.


----------



## Zander

I've bookmarked this thread... for comedy and taunting on Nov 5 2014


----------



## Spoonman

Zander said:


> I've bookmarked this thread... for comedy and taunting on Nov 5 2014



Jerry Seinfeld referred to it as a thread about nothing.


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov

JakeStarkey said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The previous links?  What previous links, son?  You don't have the confidence of the folks on the board to do that.
> 
> I will take that as an admission that "you got caught."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you had actually been "contributing" something useful to the discussion and able to follow along, you'd already know that's been provided under posts #451 and #464. Obviously you'd rather jump in the middle of a discussion and attempt to criticize instead of engaging in anything useful to the topic at hand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your previous links give us opinion not proof.
> 
> Now give us proof, son, or you continue to FAIL
Click to expand...


From someone who doesn't use any links or resources of any kind, I seriously doubt you know what "proof" (resourced facts) actually is. Unsupported opinions don't impress me. Let's see if you are capable of knowing HOW to back up your argument with supported facts, or if your really nothing more than just a useless troll incapable of engaging in a simple debate.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you had actually been "contributing" something useful to the discussion and able to follow along, you'd already know that's been provided under posts #451 and #464. Obviously you'd rather jump in the middle of a discussion and attempt to criticize instead of engaging in anything useful to the topic at hand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your previous links give us opinion not proof.
> 
> Now give us proof, son, or you continue to FAIL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From someone who doesn't use any links or resources of any kind, I seriously doubt you know what "proof" (resourced facts) actually is. Unsupported opinions don't impress me. Let's see if you are capable of knowing HOW to back up your argument with supported facts, or if your really nothing more than just a useless troll incapable of engaging in a simple debate.
Click to expand...


Ask him how many threads he has started, with his own thoughts and views.

His one and only thread which amounted to nothing

http://www.usmessageboard.com/4027383-post1.html


----------



## Gadawg73

All links are opinion only.
Who posts a link for any reason other than to support their OPINION. 
That is why posting links is absurd. NO ONE posts links that have both sides of an argument.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Gadawg73 said:


> All links are opinion only.
> Who posts a link for any reason other than to support their OPINION.
> That is why posting links is absurd. NO ONE posts links that have both sides of an argument.



When dealing with numbers linking are important.


----------



## Spoonman

There is one reason why republicans will win big in 2014


----------



## JakeStarkey

> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your previous links give us opinion not proof.
> 
> Now give us proof, son, or you continue to FAIL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see if you are capable of knowing HOW to back up your argument with supported facts, or if your really nothing more than just a useless troll incapable of engaging in a simple debate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ask him how many threads he has started, with his own thoughts and views.
Click to expand...


You don't get it, squiggles.

YOU have to post an OP with factual, supportable evidence, THEN I have to rebut it using factual, credible evidence.

YOU DON"T post a biased opinion as fact without evidence and then demand it be refuted with factual evidence.

I will ALWAYS hold you guys accountable for your manifest errors.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

JakeStarkey said:


> Let's see if you are capable of knowing HOW to back up your argument with supported facts, or if your really nothing more than just a useless troll incapable of engaging in a simple debate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ask him how many threads he has started, with his own thoughts and views.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't get it, squiggles.
> 
> YOU have to post an OP with factual, supportable evidence, THEN I have to rebut it using factual, credible evidence.
> 
> YOU DON"T post a biased opinion as fact without evidence and then demand it be refuted with factual evidence.
> 
> I will ALWAYS hold you guys accountable for your manifest errors.
Click to expand...


Start a thread for once? Stop trolling.


----------



## Dot Com

JoeB131 said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> He has car envy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amongst many, many other things.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I just get annoyed when douchebags in Lexuses (Lexi?) go weaving about through traffic cutting off regular working folks just trying to get to their jobs.
> 
> Seriously, put a guy behind the wheel of a Lexus---- instant douchebag.
> 
> Now, a Mormon behind the wheel of a Lexus, that's universe collapsing levels of douchebaggery.
Click to expand...


good one


----------



## Katzndogz

Spoonman said:


> There is one reason why republicans will win big in 2014



Democrats will change the name from the Statue of Liberty to the Statue of Equality.  There, all fixed.


----------



## Spoonman

Obamacare - Jobs - Economy - Gun Control   =  face it, the republicans aren't losing anything in 2014


----------



## JakeStarkey

> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ask him how many threads he has started, with his own thoughts and views.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't get it, squiggles.
> 
> YOU have to post an OP with factual, supportable evidence, THEN I have to rebut it using factual, credible evidence.
> 
> YOU DON"T post a biased opinion as fact without evidence and then demand it be refuted with factual evidence.
> 
> I will ALWAYS hold you guys accountable for your manifest errors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Start a thread for once?
Click to expand...


Deflection won't work, squiggles.


----------



## Mertex

Katzndogz said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is one reason why republicans will win big in 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Democrats will change the name from the Statue of Liberty to the Statue of Equality.  There, all fixed.
Click to expand...


What's so "free" about having your womb monitored by the GOP?


----------



## Spoonman

Mertex said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is one reason why republicans will win big in 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Democrats will change the name from the Statue of Liberty to the Statue of Equality.  There, all fixed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's so "free" about having your womb monitored by the GOP?
Click to expand...


whats so free about being able to snuff out a life?  when you think about the ultimate denial of personal responsibility.   I fucked up.  I created a life that I really don't want to deal with.  so i'll just kill it.


----------



## Zander

Delusional Democrats just love shitting from their mouths.....


----------



## AvgGuyIA

Bwha ha ha!


----------



## asterism

ron4342 said:


> After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there) and that if the republicans wanted to remain relevant they needed to change also. The recommendation was that the republican party needs to actively work toward bringing Hispanics into the party.
> They have a perfect chance to do that now but I fully expect that the republican party will once again shoot themselves in the foot. What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do. This places the republicans in a bind. Should they strongly support a sweeping immigration plan (similar to what Obama is offering) OR should they dig in their heels and refuse to accept any plan Obama offers just as they have done throughout the last five years.
> I am betting that the republicans will dig in their heels and refuse to offer a plan similar to Obama's. In other words, they will once again play the obstruction card and in the process slap the people who could help them win elections in the face. And then, after losing the Hispanic vote by a wide margin in 2014, they will once again scratch their heads and ask "Why did we lose? I don't understand."



Who is saying "why did we lose" now?

HAHAHAHA


----------



## ScienceRocks

BIG FUCKING WIN FOR THE REPUBLICANS! Put that in your pipe and stick it up your ass DEMOCRATS!!!

Shouldn't of bashed MALES, Americans and whites.

FUCK YOU!


----------



## Mad_Cabbie

Matthew said:


> BIG FUCKING WIN FOR THE REPUBLICANS! Put that in your pipe and stick it up your ass DEMOCRATS!!!
> 
> Shouldn't of bashed MALES, Americans and whites.
> 
> FUCK YOU!



Awww ... You cursed at me!

I'm going to cry.....


Quit being such a dick.


----------



## Big Black Dog

Now, maybe some of the loud-mouthed liberal Democrats on this board will sit down and shut up.  Looks like you got it broke off in you butt yesterday.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

ron4342 said:


> After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there) and that if the republicans wanted to remain relevant they needed to change also. The recommendation was that the republican party needs to actively work toward bringing Hispanics into the party.
> They have a perfect chance to do that now but I fully expect that the republican party will once again shoot themselves in the foot. What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do. This places the republicans in a bind. Should they strongly support a sweeping immigration plan (similar to what Obama is offering) OR should they dig in their heels and refuse to accept any plan Obama offers just as they have done throughout the last five years.
> I am betting that the republicans will dig in their heels and refuse to offer a plan similar to Obama's. In other words, they will once again play the obstruction card and in the process slap the people who could help them win elections in the face. And then, after losing the Hispanic vote by a wide margin in 2014, they will once again scratch their heads and ask "Why did we lose? I don't understand."


 
Loser says what?


----------



## JoeB131

Big Black Dog said:


> Now, maybe some of the loud-mouthed liberal Democrats on this board will sit down and shut up.  Looks like you got it broke off in you butt yesterday.



Why, because you won 8 backwater states with very few people in them?


----------



## Stephanie

JoeB131 said:


> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, maybe some of the loud-mouthed liberal Democrats on this board will sit down and shut up.  Looks like you got it broke off in you butt yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why, because you won 8 backwater states with very few people in them?
Click to expand...


give it a rest. you aren't exactly forward water with all you nastiness  towards others
liberals are tolerant of others my backwaters ass


----------



## Vigilante

JoeB131 said:


> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, maybe some of the loud-mouthed liberal Democrats on this board will sit down and shut up.  Looks like you got it broke off in you butt yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why, because you won 8 backwater states with very few people in them?
Click to expand...


Back on drugs, I see.... don't worry Joe, have another hit and nothing will matter!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

JoeB131 said:


> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, maybe some of the loud-mouthed liberal Democrats on this board will sit down and shut up.  Looks like you got it broke off in you butt yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why, because you won 8 backwater states with very few people in them?
Click to expand...

 
*Why, because you won 8 backwater states with very few people in them?*

Loser says what?


----------



## Not2BSubjugated

Backwater or not, it was enough to take control of the senate and establish a historically large majority in the house, which even hardcore democrat cheerleaders are predicting it would take several wave elections in the opposite direction to reverse. . . seems like a pretty big win.  How's denial treatin' ya?


----------



## Vigilante

JoeB131 said:


> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, maybe some of the loud-mouthed liberal Democrats on this board will sit down and shut up.  Looks like you got it broke off in you butt yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why, because you won 8 backwater states with very few people in them?
Click to expand...


Governorships of Maryland, and Massachusetts.... they have very few people!


----------



## JoeB131

Not2BSubjugated said:


> Backwater or not, it was enough to take control of the senate and establish a historically large majority in the house, which even hardcore democrat cheerleaders are predicting it would take several wave elections in the opposite direction to reverse. . . seems like a pretty big win.  How's denial treatin' ya?



Okay, except control of the Senate doesn't get you that much.  

Remember when control of the Senate was going to end the Iraq War?  

It didn't.


----------



## asterism

JoeB131 said:


> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, maybe some of the loud-mouthed liberal Democrats on this board will sit down and shut up.  Looks like you got it broke off in you butt yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why, because you won 8 backwater states with very few people in them?
Click to expand...

Illinois is backwater now?


LOL


----------



## asterism

JoeB131 said:


> Not2BSubjugated said:
> 
> 
> 
> Backwater or not, it was enough to take control of the senate and establish a historically large majority in the house, which even hardcore democrat cheerleaders are predicting it would take several wave elections in the opposite direction to reverse. . . seems like a pretty big win.  How's denial treatin' ya?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, except control of the Senate doesn't get you that much.
> 
> Remember when control of the Senate was going to end the Iraq War?
> 
> It didn't.
Click to expand...


There never was any serious attempt by most Democrats in the Senate to end the Iraq war.  That was just talking points fed to you by your party.  Same with the "Public Option," it was a pipe dream for Progressives that didn't make it because the votes in the Democrat party weren't there.


----------



## Mindful

*The real winner at the US mid-terms: Hillary Clinton*
Revived Republican radicalism will be to the Democrats' advantage in 2016.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9362672/the-real-winner-at-the-us-mid-terms-hillary-clinton/


----------



## birddog

Dumbass, ungracious dims!


----------



## boedicca

It's so fun seeing threads like this one get bumped.


----------



## JoeB131

asterism said:


> There never was any serious attempt by most Democrats in the Senate to end the Iraq war. That was just talking points fed to you by your party. Same with the "Public Option," it was a pipe dream for Progressives that didn't make it because the votes in the Democrat party weren't there.



Actually, it's really hard to stop a war once it's been started.  All Bush had to do was say, "I'm commander in cheif, I'm escalating the war," and the Dems were kind of well and screwed.


----------



## asterism

JoeB131 said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> There never was any serious attempt by most Democrats in the Senate to end the Iraq war. That was just talking points fed to you by your party. Same with the "Public Option," it was a pipe dream for Progressives that didn't make it because the votes in the Democrat party weren't there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's really hard to stop a war once it's been started.  All Bush had to do was say, "I'm commander in cheif, I'm escalating the war," and the Dems were kind of well and screwed.
Click to expand...


The Democratic House could have refused to fund it in 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010 but they didn't.  You'll also note that the current President didn't even end the war in Iraq, he followed Bush's timetable.


----------



## JoeB131

asterism said:


> The Democratic House could have refused to fund it in 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010 but they didn't. You'll also note that the current President didn't even end the war in Iraq, he followed Bush's timetable.



Um, no, they couldn't have.  Unless they wanted to be totally unethical and let troops die for want of bullets.


----------



## asterism

JoeB131 said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Democratic House could have refused to fund it in 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010 but they didn't. You'll also note that the current President didn't even end the war in Iraq, he followed Bush's timetable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um, no, they couldn't have.  Unless they wanted to be totally unethical and let troops die for want of bullets.
Click to expand...


The talking points during the 2006 election was that supporting the troops meant bringing them home.

Now you're saying that was bullshit?  HAHAHAHA


----------



## JoeB131

asterism said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Democratic House could have refused to fund it in 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010 but they didn't. You'll also note that the current President didn't even end the war in Iraq, he followed Bush's timetable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um, no, they couldn't have.  Unless they wanted to be totally unethical and let troops die for want of bullets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The talking points during the 2006 election was that supporting the troops meant bringing them home.
> 
> Now you're saying that was bullshit?  HAHAHAHA
Click to expand...


Naw, they had some funny idea George W. Stupid would take losing both houses of congress to heart and move to put an end to the war we clearly weren't winning. 

Instead, he threw away a thousand more lives in order to save face.


----------



## Stephanie

Mindful said:


> *The real winner at the US mid-terms: Hillary Clinton*
> Revived Republican radicalism will be to the Democrats' advantage in 2016.
> 
> The real winner at the US mid-terms Hillary Clinton The Spectator




lol, revived Republican radicalism AND Hillary was the real winner
It this rag supposed to be UNBIASED and are any of the people who writes for it SANE?


----------



## Roadrunner

Stephanie said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The real winner at the US mid-terms: Hillary Clinton*
> Revived Republican radicalism will be to the Democrats' advantage in 2016.
> 
> The real winner at the US mid-terms Hillary Clinton The Spectator
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol, revived Republican radicalism AND Hillary was the real winner
> It this rag supposed to be UNBIASED and are any of the people who writes for it SANE?
Click to expand...

I just love it. Clintons were kiss of death to every candidate they campaigned for, except NH's Shaheen, and this is GOOD for Hillary?

Hillary is toast.

But, I hope they run her.


----------



## asterism

JoeB131 said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Democratic House could have refused to fund it in 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010 but they didn't. You'll also note that the current President didn't even end the war in Iraq, he followed Bush's timetable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um, no, they couldn't have.  Unless they wanted to be totally unethical and let troops die for want of bullets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The talking points during the 2006 election was that supporting the troops meant bringing them home.
> 
> Now you're saying that was bullshit?  HAHAHAHA
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Naw, they had some funny idea George W. Stupid would take losing both houses of congress to heart and move to put an end to the war we clearly weren't winning.
> 
> Instead, he threw away a thousand more lives in order to save face.
Click to expand...


Or that he didn't direct military action based on polls.

That method failed when Clinton did it.


----------



## jon_berzerk

ron4342 said:


> After the republicans got thrashed in the last election they set up a commission to evaluate why they lost and how to avoid losing in the future. The prime finding of the commission was that the demographics of America were changing (no surprise there) and that if the republicans wanted to remain relevant they needed to change also. The recommendation was that the republican party needs to actively work toward bringing Hispanics into the party.
> They have a perfect chance to do that now but I fully expect that the republican party will once again shoot themselves in the foot. What the republicans need to do is to come out with a broad immigration plan that offers a way for Hispanics to become American citizens. But THAT is exactly what President Obama is preparing to do. This places the republicans in a bind. Should they strongly support a sweeping immigration plan (similar to what Obama is offering) OR should they dig in their heels and refuse to accept any plan Obama offers just as they have done throughout the last five years.
> I am betting that the republicans will dig in their heels and refuse to offer a plan similar to Obama's. In other words, they will once again play the obstruction card and in the process slap the people who could help them win elections in the face. And then, after losing the Hispanic vote by a wide margin in 2014, they will once again scratch their heads and ask "Why did we lose? I don't understand."



--LOL


----------



## JoeB131

asterism said:


> Or that he didn't direct military action based on polls.
> 
> That method failed when Clinton did it.



Really?  Clinton defeated the Serbs in Bosnia and Kosovo without the loss of a single American life. 

Bush handed Iraq over to Al Qaeda and the IRanians. 

Maybe he should have listened to polls.


----------



## asterism

JoeB131 said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or that he didn't direct military action based on polls.
> 
> That method failed when Clinton did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Clinton defeated the Serbs in Bosnia and Kosovo without the loss of a single American life.
> 
> Bush handed Iraq over to Al Qaeda and the IRanians.
> 
> Maybe he should have listened to polls.
Click to expand...


Clinton defeated the Serbs?
Was that Hillary with her landing "under enemy fire?"

Too funny.


----------



## R.D.

JoeB131 said:


> Okay, except control of the Senate doesn't get you that much.
> 
> Remember when control of the Senate was going to end the Iraq War?
> 
> It didn't.


You sure?Obama declares Iraq war over with all US troops home at year s end TheHill

Plus with house leader Reid sitting on some 350+ bills,  things got done exactly they way he wanted.


----------



## JoeB131

R.D. said:


> Plus with house leader Reid sitting on some 350+ bills, things got done exactly they way he wanted.



Well, that's true. Harry Reid won't be saving Boenher from his own caucus.  he's going to have to be a grownup and tell them ObamaCare isn't getting repealled.


----------



## Roadrunner

asterism said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or that he didn't direct military action based on polls.
> 
> That method failed when Clinton did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Clinton defeated the Serbs in Bosnia and Kosovo without the loss of a single American life.
> 
> Bush handed Iraq over to Al Qaeda and the IRanians.
> 
> Maybe he should have listened to polls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Clinton defeated the Serbs?
> Was that Hillary with her landing "under enemy fire?"
> 
> Too funny.
Click to expand...

My son was there that day.

Slick Willie had him there WITH NO AMMO.

Think maybe he was trying to chuck the old bag?


----------



## KissMy

Texas Latino vote goes Republican

Republican U.S. Sen. John Cornyn made a statement by winning 48 percent of the Latino vote, besting his Democratic opponent, David Alameel, who got 47 percent, according to exit polls.

Some exit polls also showed GOP governor-elect Greg Abbott winning 44 percent of the Latino vote, a higher percentage than the 38 percent Republican Gov. Rick Perry won in 2010.


----------



## JoeB131

Roadrunner said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or that he didn't direct military action based on polls.
> 
> That method failed when Clinton did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Clinton defeated the Serbs in Bosnia and Kosovo without the loss of a single American life.
> 
> Bush handed Iraq over to Al Qaeda and the IRanians.
> 
> Maybe he should have listened to polls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Clinton defeated the Serbs?
> Was that Hillary with her landing "under enemy fire?"
> 
> Too funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My son was there that day.
> 
> Slick Willie had him there WITH NO AMMO.
> 
> Think maybe he was trying to chuck the old bag?
Click to expand...


Or maybe he actually won his goals. 

Let's review.  

The Serbs were defeated in Bosnia.  They were defeated in Kosovo.  They had to give up Montenegro.  Milosevic got shipped off to the Hague for trial.  

Not one American died in combat.


----------



## R.D.

JoeB131 said:


> R.D. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Plus with house leader Reid sitting on some 350+ bills, things got done exactly they way he wanted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that's true. Harry Reid won't be saving Boenher from his own caucus.  he's going to have to be a grownup and tell them ObamaCare isn't getting repealled.
Click to expand...

Are you faking insanity?  Was the loss that devastating for you?


----------



## JoeB131

R.D. said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> R.D. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Plus with house leader Reid sitting on some 350+ bills, things got done exactly they way he wanted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that's true. Harry Reid won't be saving Boenher from his own caucus.  he's going to have to be a grownup and tell them ObamaCare isn't getting repealled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you faking insanity?  Was the loss that devastating for you?
Click to expand...


Given how much the GOP is backpeddling from the Crazy, it seems like you 'won' a victory by hiding who you really are or abandoning it. 

Here's a big hint.  No one is talking about repealling ObamaCare anymore. 

They'll just start calling it the ACA, and try to pretend Obama had nothing to do with it.


----------



## R.D.

JoeB131 said:


> R.D. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> R.D. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Plus with house leader Reid sitting on some 350+ bills, things got done exactly they way he wanted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that's true. Harry Reid won't be saving Boenher from his own caucus.  he's going to have to be a grownup and tell them ObamaCare isn't getting repealled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you faking insanity?  Was the loss that devastating for you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Given how much the GOP is backpeddling from the Crazy, it seems like you 'won' a victory by hiding who you really are or abandoning it.
> 
> Here's a big hint.  No one is talking about repealling ObamaCare anymore.
> 
> They'll just start calling it the ACA, and try to pretend Obama had nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...



“The American people have made it clear they’re not for Obamacare. Ask all those Democrats who lost their elections on Tuesday night,” Boehner said Thursday afternoon in a press conference. “The House, I am sure, will move next year to repeal Obamacare because it should be repealed and it should be replaced with common sense reforms that respect the doctor-patient relationship. Now, whether that can pass the Senate, I don’t know.”


----------



## Iceweasel

Liberals are always fun to watch when they lose. I love it.


----------



## asterism

JoeB131 said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or that he didn't direct military action based on polls.
> 
> That method failed when Clinton did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Clinton defeated the Serbs in Bosnia and Kosovo without the loss of a single American life.
> 
> Bush handed Iraq over to Al Qaeda and the IRanians.
> 
> Maybe he should have listened to polls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Clinton defeated the Serbs?
> Was that Hillary with her landing "under enemy fire?"
> 
> Too funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My son was there that day.
> 
> Slick Willie had him there WITH NO AMMO.
> 
> Think maybe he was trying to chuck the old bag?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or maybe he actually won his goals.
> 
> Let's review.
> 
> The Serbs were defeated in Bosnia.  They were defeated in Kosovo.  They had to give up Montenegro.  Milosevic got shipped off to the Hague for trial.
> 
> Not one American died in combat.
Click to expand...


Is that the only military action Clinton initiated?  I think you're cherrypicking.


----------



## JoeB131

R.D. said:


> “The American people have made it clear they’re not for Obamacare. Ask all those Democrats who lost their elections on Tuesday night,” Boehner said Thursday afternoon in a press conference. “The House, I am sure, will move next year to repeal Obamacare because it should be repealed and it should be replaced with common sense reforms that respect the doctor-patient relationship. Now, whether that can pass the Senate, I don’t know.”



Boenher can say that all day, but the ONLY referendum we had on ObamaCare nationally was the one where President Obama got 66 million votes in 2012.  

Tuesday just proved that Slackjaws in Iowa like a lady who castrates pigs better than a guy who sues his neighbors over pet chickens.


----------



## JoeB131

asterism said:


> Is that the only military action Clinton initiated? I think you're cherrypicking.



Perhaps.  

But no action Clinton did compares to the Iraq War in terms of pure Clusterfuck.


----------



## Mertex

R.D. said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> R.D. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> R.D. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Plus with house leader Reid sitting on some 350+ bills, things got done exactly they way he wanted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that's true. Harry Reid won't be saving Boenher from his own caucus.  he's going to have to be a grownup and tell them ObamaCare isn't getting repealled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you faking insanity?  Was the loss that devastating for you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Given how much the GOP is backpeddling from the Crazy, it seems like you 'won' a victory by hiding who you really are or abandoning it.
> 
> Here's a big hint.  No one is talking about repealling ObamaCare anymore.
> 
> They'll just start calling it the ACA, and try to pretend Obama had nothing to do with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> “The American people have made it clear they’re not for Obamacare. Ask all those Democrats who lost their elections on Tuesday night,” Boehner said Thursday afternoon in a press conference. “The House, I am sure, will move next year to repeal Obamacare because it should be repealed and it should be replaced with common sense reforms that respect the doctor-patient relationship. Now, whether that can pass the Senate, I don’t know.”
Click to expand...


More of the same.  Republicans know Obama is still President.....he's not going to sign any bill repealing Obamacare, and it's time for them to wake up and realize that Obamacare is not a failure and American people have not made it clear they're not for Obamacare....Republicans are not for Obamacare because they  are not interested in providing affordable health care to anyone.  The majority of Republicans who can afford to pay the high premiums the insurance companies were used to charging are fine with the way it used to be, and the poor Republicans *who can now get insurance* don't know any better....they just go along lock-step.

Our View Affordable Care Act - Good news for Obamacare


----------



## Iceweasel

Mertex said:


> and it's time for them to wake up and realize that Obamacare is not a failure and American people have not made it clear they're not for Obamacare.


Wrong. And have you checked your premiums for next year. It will get worse when people find out, the insurance companies were on orders to not release the info until after the election so you can check up on it now.

Obamacare hits a new low in popularity. It may not matter all that much. - The Washington Post
The Kaiser Family Foundation tracking poll, which has been keeping constant tabs on public sentiment on the Affordable Care Act for nearly four years, shows 53 percent of Americans now have an unfavorable impression of the law. That's the highest on record and an increase of eight percentage points in one month.


----------



## Stephanie

Mertex said:


> R.D. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> R.D. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> R.D. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Plus with house leader Reid sitting on some 350+ bills, things got done exactly they way he wanted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that's true. Harry Reid won't be saving Boenher from his own caucus.  he's going to have to be a grownup and tell them ObamaCare isn't getting repealled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you faking insanity?  Was the loss that devastating for you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Given how much the GOP is backpeddling from the Crazy, it seems like you 'won' a victory by hiding who you really are or abandoning it.
> 
> Here's a big hint.  No one is talking about repealling ObamaCare anymore.
> 
> They'll just start calling it the ACA, and try to pretend Obama had nothing to do with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> “The American people have made it clear they’re not for Obamacare. Ask all those Democrats who lost their elections on Tuesday night,” Boehner said Thursday afternoon in a press conference. “The House, I am sure, will move next year to repeal Obamacare because it should be repealed and it should be replaced with common sense reforms that respect the doctor-patient relationship. Now, whether that can pass the Senate, I don’t know.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More of the same.  Republicans know Obama is still President.....he's not going to sign any bill repealing Obamacare, and it's time for them to wake up and realize that Obamacare is not a failure and American people have not made it clear they're not for Obamacare....Republicans are not for Obamacare because they  are not interested in providing affordable health care to anyone.  The majority of Republicans who can afford to pay the high premiums the insurance companies were used to charging are fine with the way it used to be, and the poor Republicans *who can now get insurance* don't know any better....they just go along lock-step.
> 
> Our View Affordable Care Act - Good news for Obamacare
Click to expand...


big deal he's JUST a President NOT OUR DICTATOR
he doesn't have the house or senate now to bow to him so he can sit down and shut up... as the rest of you can too


----------



## chikenwing

Mertex said:


> R.D. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> R.D. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> R.D. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Plus with house leader Reid sitting on some 350+ bills, things got done exactly they way he wanted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that's true. Harry Reid won't be saving Boenher from his own caucus.  he's going to have to be a grownup and tell them ObamaCare isn't getting repealled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you faking insanity?  Was the loss that devastating for you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Given how much the GOP is backpeddling from the Crazy, it seems like you 'won' a victory by hiding who you really are or abandoning it.
> 
> Here's a big hint.  No one is talking about repealling ObamaCare anymore.
> 
> They'll just start calling it the ACA, and try to pretend Obama had nothing to do with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> “The American people have made it clear they’re not for Obamacare. Ask all those Democrats who lost their elections on Tuesday night,” Boehner said Thursday afternoon in a press conference. “The House, I am sure, will move next year to repeal Obamacare because it should be repealed and it should be replaced with common sense reforms that respect the doctor-patient relationship. Now, whether that can pass the Senate, I don’t know.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More of the same.  Republicans know Obama is still President.....he's not going to sign any bill repealing Obamacare, and it's time for them to wake up and realize that Obamacare is not a failure and American people have not made it clear they're not for Obamacare....Republicans are not for Obamacare because they  are not interested in providing affordable health care to anyone.  The majority of Republicans who can afford to pay the high premiums the insurance companies were used to charging are fine with the way it used to be, and the poor Republicans *who can now get insurance* don't know any better....they just go along lock-step.
> 
> Our View Affordable Care Act - Good news for Obamacare
Click to expand...


Denial is not very becoming,all of the current policys and actions were clearly rejected,CLEARLY Obama care included.Saying other wise well never make it so.


----------



## Mertex

chikenwing said:


> Denial is not very becoming,all of the current policys and actions were clearly rejected,CLEARLY Obama care included.Saying other wise well never make it so.



Yeah, sure, that's why Obama won big in 2012 running for Obamacare.  You're right, denial is not very becoming, you all need to think outside the Faux News box.


----------



## Mertex

Stephanie said:


> big deal he's JUST a President NOT OUR DICTATOR
> he doesn't have the house or senate now to bow to him so he can sit down and shut up... as the rest of you can too



Stephanie, we know you live in a bubble.....but please link me up where I can see that the House bowed to him just once since 2008.  And, he doesn't have to shut up.....much to your dismay, he is the President.....will be for 2 more years in spite of Republican opposition and attempts to impeach him, and he has more power than the House and Senate by a stroke of his pen.....so maybe it's time for you all to shut up.


----------



## Iceweasel

Mertex said:


> Yeah, sure, that's why Obama won big in 2012 running for Obamacare.  You're right, denial is not very becoming, you all need to think outside the Faux News box.


He didn't win big and obamaCare was never popular.


----------



## westwall

Mertex said:


> chikenwing said:
> 
> 
> 
> Denial is not very becoming,all of the current policys and actions were clearly rejected,CLEARLY Obama care included.Saying other wise well never make it so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, sure, that's why Obama won big in 2012 running for Obamacare.  You're right, denial is not very becoming, you all need to think outside the Faux News box.
Click to expand...








He won because they lied about what was in O care.  Once it became clear that O care screws the average American, and big.  They were no longer as supportive as you hoped they would be.  Thus the drubbing the Dems took last week.


----------



## JoeB131

Iceweasel said:


> He didn't win big and obamaCare was never popular.



66 million votes- more than Reagan ever got.


----------



## JoeB131

westwall said:


> He won because they lied about what was in O care. Once it became clear that O care screws the average American, and big. They were no longer as supportive as you hoped they would be. Thus the drubbing the Dems took last week.



Except none of your boys ran on ObamaCare.


----------



## Iceweasel

JoeB131 said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> He didn't win big and obamaCare was never popular.
> 
> 
> 
> 66 million votes- more than Reagan ever got.
Click to expand...

Population has grown too. But he never enjoyed Reagan's percentage, that's the number that matters.


----------



## Iceweasel

JoeB131 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> He won because they lied about what was in O care. Once it became clear that O care screws the average American, and big. They were no longer as supportive as you hoped they would be. Thus the drubbing the Dems took last week.
> 
> 
> 
> Except none of your boys ran on ObamaCare.
Click to expand...

Jesus, you're quick. No Republican voted for it and it hurt them...how?


----------

