# BREAKING: Dozens dead in India terrorist attack



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

Gunmen attack targets in Indian city - CNN.com

It's all over TV right now... one report has up to 80 people dead. They stormed into hotels and demanded to know where the Westerners were. Automatic weapons, grenades, even reports of hostages.


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## WillowTree (Nov 26, 2008)

so? is this a police matter again?


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## Tech_Esq (Nov 26, 2008)

Wow. 7-9 hotels taken and separate attacks on Anti-terror commander.


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## Annie (Nov 26, 2008)

I thought the days of terrorism were over. WTF?


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## Sunni Man (Nov 26, 2008)

Annie said:


> I thought the days of terrorism were over. WTF?


Did Bush tell you that?


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## Annie (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Did Bush tell you that?



Hardly, he's of the color code group. It's the war that wasn't, ijit.


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## WillowTree (Nov 26, 2008)

Annie said:


> I thought the days of terrorism were over. WTF?






there never was any terrorism,, it was just a bumper sticker


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## Annie (Nov 26, 2008)

WillowTree said:


> there never was any terrorism,, it was just a bumper sticker



True. It was a statement, not an attack.


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## xsited1 (Nov 26, 2008)

Were members of the 'Religion of Peace' responsible?


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## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

xsited1 said:


> Were members of the 'Religion of Peace' responsible?



Yes, once again there is yet another terrorist attack killing innocent people by Muslims.


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## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

all hell is breaking loose and they are taking hostages....pray to whatever god you have for these people.....


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## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

now will this be approached as an internal problem for india or will other countries send in help...i feel so much for the hostages....may the fates and muses be kind


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## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

apparently they are looking for brits and any westerners...more hotels are coming under attack..it is rather confusing watching the news....but it does appear to be a large operation...


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## Tech_Esq (Nov 26, 2008)

A Brit that escaped from the Oberoi Hotel said that there were 15 terrorists just in the Oberoi.

There are apparently 3 members of the Indian Parliament trapped in the Taj.


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## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

cnn just said westerns were hostages....i am not sure which hotel.


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## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

both hotels and there gunmen on the roof...reports of another hotel in another part of the city


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## Tech_Esq (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> I am watching the news live and the attackers have NOT been identified.



An operation of this size and scale is al Qaeda until it is shown that it isn't.


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## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

india has a long history of problems between the muslims and hindus...sunni do you really think this is not muslims, islamics or what ever you want to call them....

look people are we looking into our future...


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## Sunni Man (Nov 26, 2008)

Muslims are treated as second class citizens in India.

So it wouldn't surprise me if they were involved.


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## Tech_Esq (Nov 26, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> both hotels and there gunmen on the roof...reports of another hotel in another part of the city



7 hotels were targeted including:

The Ramada, The Sheraton, The Taj Majal and the Oberoi. Commandos are attacking the Oberoi now and a loud explosion has been reported after the commandos went in.


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## Tech_Esq (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Muslims are treated as second class citizens in India.
> 
> So it wouldn't surprise me if they were involved.



It would surprise me if they were citizens of India of any kind.


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## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

we are all watching the live news dumbass...i swear sunni how can you join these people...in their religion...hell i am pretty tolerant of most...but you and your fellow islamics are hardy impressive in your tolerance or love of others...i am sorry as a pagan i will take my chances with the christians and jews


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## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

Tech_Esq said:


> A Brit that escaped from the Oberoi Hotel said that there were 15 terrorists just in the Oberoi.
> 
> There are apparently 3 members of the Indian Parliament trapped in the Taj.



If these terrorists are in any way related to Pakistan....... there will be holy war between two nuclear powers. NOT something you want to see.


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## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

bombay...hindu extremists are now being mentioned
i doubt it


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## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> apparently they are looking for brits and any westerners...more hotels are coming under attack..it is rather confusing watching the news....but it does appear to be a large operation...



They went into hotels demanding to see passports. If you were an American or a Brit, you were killed.


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## Tech_Esq (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> If these terrorists are in any way related to Pakistan....... there will be holy war between two nuclear powers. NOT something you want to see.



If they were Paks they wouldn't be looking for westerners, they would be killing Indians.


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## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

david chill....the one thing about two powers they will avoid the confrontation.....pakistain is already on the phone ....offering aid...i bet

saying no us personnel or "official" americans involved


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## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

i dont think hindus would go to this... the fighting has always been on a very personal or regional area


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## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

I'm betting on Comanches. Conspiracy kooks ---start your engines !!!!


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## Sunni Man (Nov 26, 2008)

According to the CIA World Factbook

www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook 

India is 13.5% Muslim. Around 150 million people.


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## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Muslims are treated as second class citizens in India.
> 
> So it wouldn't surprise me if they were involved.



Muslims don't belong in India. Muslims belong in Pakistan.


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## busara (Nov 26, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> we are all watching the live news dumbass...i swear sunni how can you join these people...in their religion...hell i am pretty tolerant of most...but you and your fellow islamics are hardy impressive in your tolerance or love of others...i am sorry as a pagan i will take my chances with the christians and jews



do not lump all muslims in with the extremists. stereotyping does noone any good.


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## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

what channel are yall watching....


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## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Muslims don't belong in India. Muslims belong in Pakistan.



And jews belong in Israel---Bye !!


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## Annie (Nov 26, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> And jews belong in Israel---Bye !!



Indeed they do.


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## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> i dont think hindus would go to this... the fighting has always been on a very personal or regional area



Extremist Hindus don't target Westerners, they target Muslims. Muslims target Westerners, specifically Al Queda.


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## Sunni Man (Nov 26, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> i dont think hindus would go to this... the fighting has always been on a very personal or regional area


The Hindu extremeists have been terrorising Muslims for years.


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## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

busara said:


> do not lump all muslims in with the extremists. stereotyping does noone any good.



you know it would amaze you the 180 i have done....i use to have great respect for the people in this area who are arab americans...granted not a large group  but they are here...not anymore...these people are scarey and yes i understand that any extremist who takes a religious book and does this is not an example of the whole.....but i do not hear muslims speaking out against these things....i know a few have but as a whole...and i see the headlines of stories...taliban does this and that....sure they are extreme but for some reason the people of those areas seem more than happy to allow them to dominate


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## Silence (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Muslims don't belong in India. Muslims belong in Pakistan.



wtf does that even mean?  muslims live all over the world.  You're blaming an otherwise peaceful group of people on a small and violent sect of that population for all the terrorism...that seems pretty ridiculous to me.  I have friends who are muslim and they are very peaceful and are appalled at the actions of terrorists.


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## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> The Hindu extremeists have been terrorising Muslims for years.



sunni why dont you just hush...i think they are now making some guess ....mujadeen?  sorry my spelling is so poor...but islamics


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## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> And jews belong in Israel---Bye !!



Read your history, dillo. There was a whole big thing about the creation of Pakistan being a place for Muslims. Muslims are welcome in America where they receive equal rights and are free to practice their religion. Muslims are NOT welcome in India - a country with thousands of years of heritage and history that belongs to Hindus. Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp? Jews and Christians aren't welcome in India either. Muslims can't be in every country - although they want to be.


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## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Muslims don't belong in India. Muslims belong in Pakistan.



i am beginning to think they belong no where


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## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

Silence said:


> wtf does that even mean?  muslims live all over the world.  You're blaming an otherwise peaceful group of people on a small and violent sect of that population for all the terrorism...that seems pretty ridiculous to me.  I have friends who are muslim and they are very peaceful and are appalled at the actions of terrorists.



Muslims and Hindus cannot leave peacefully with one another. So they created Pakistan for the Muslims to live. Only Hindus are really allowed in India to live. And that's how it should be.


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## busara (Nov 26, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> you know it would amaze you the 180 i have done....i use to have great respect for the people in this area who are arab americans...granted not a large group  but they are here...not anymore...these people are scarey and yes i understand that any extremist who takes a religious book and does this is not an example of the whole.....but i do not hear muslims speaking out against these things....i know a few have but as a whole...and i see the headlines of stories...taliban does this and that....sure they are extreme but for some reason the people of those areas seem more than happy to allow them to dominate



to dominate? just because all you hear are reports of these acts on the news does not mean that the majority of people holding the islamic faith hold these violent, radical views. just because the half hour news programs dont report it doesnt mean it doesnt exist


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## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

only hindus my ass....its mixed


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## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> i am beginning to think they belong no where



*biting tongue* Muslims are people of peace. Tell that to the 80 people dead. There's pools of blood all over southern Mambai's Western hotels.


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## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

Religions: Hindu 80.5%, Muslim 13.4%, Christian 2.3%, Sikh 1.9%, other 1.8%, unspecified 0.1% (2001 census)
According to https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/in.html


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## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Read your history, dillo. There was a whole big thing about the creation of Pakistan being a place for Muslims. Muslims are welcome in America where they receive equal rights and are free to practice their religion. Muslims are NOT welcome in India - a country with thousands of years of heritage and history that belongs to Hindus. Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp? Jews and Christians aren't welcome in India either. Muslims can't be in every country - although they want to be.



Hopefully you can see how fucking bigoted you are----are you packing to go to the country that was created for you  ?


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## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> The Hindu extremeists have been terrorising Muslims for years.



Which would make sense if the Muslims were attacking Hindus. But they're attacking Jews and Christians. Same old story we've been hearing for decades... radical muslims can't peacefully co-exist with their neighbors.


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## Tech_Esq (Nov 26, 2008)

Silence said:


> wtf does that even mean?  muslims live all over the world.  You're blaming an otherwise peaceful group of people on a small and violent sect of that population for all the terrorism...that seems pretty ridiculous to me.  I have friends who are muslim and they are very peaceful and are appalled at the actions of terrorists.



And aside from being appalled what do they DO about it? Do they speak out as Muslims against this activity? Because that is what is needed. They have to take their religion back from these idiots. If they decide to do nothing, they shouldn't be surprised when people believe they agree with the terrorists.


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## Tech_Esq (Nov 26, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> what channel are yall watching....



streaming CNN Asia at work.


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## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

busara said:


> to dominate? just because all you hear are reports of these acts on the news does not mean that the majority of people holding the islamic faith hold these violent, radical views. just because the half hour news programs dont report it doesnt mean it doesnt exist



i mean no offense..but there is no friendly or non offensive way to say this....the news did overcover the negative esp after 9/11 but you saw what went down...the muslims in the detriot area...celebrating....where was the outpouring of sympathy that would have been given by any other major population inthe area...where was it...did we see muslims americans marching with american flags...no we saw inman saying very litte....you can play that ....people of peace crap but actions speak a lot louder than words...you are dealing with people who still do stone age things...ie....removal of a womans sexual organs....etc...honor killings....the list goes on and on...i dont think they can be assimulated or want to be...when something reasons to hold to the norms of the greater society....to the point of terrorism...then they must and will be dealt with...the religion of peace that kills over a cartoon?  the list is endless....you are dealing with a majority of people who are just a step ahead of nomadic herdsmen...with the mentality of cave men...even the upper classes ..such as saudi araba does not allow women freedoms...women die daily due to stupid ass ignorant religious believes in all countries but more so in backwards arabs countries...hell what i love is why in the hell dont we just let the muslims go at each other..  cause they will...


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## Ravi (Nov 26, 2008)

So far one witness said they were targeting westeners? I guess we will eventually find out, but the hotel list I saw weren't western owned hotels so it seems a bit odd.


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## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

Ravi said:


> So far one witness said they were targeting westeners? I guess we will eventually find out, but the hotel list I saw weren't western owned hotels so it seems a bit odd.




ahh good point


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## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Hopefully you can see how fucking bigoted you are----are you packing to go to the country that was created for you  ?



Bigoted? The Muslims fought tooth and nail for their own country in Western India. They fought for nearly 100 years for the creation of an Islamic state - and on August 14, 1947 they carved up ancient India and they created East Pakistan. 15 million people immigrated east and west... hundreds of thousands died so India could be Hindu and Pakistan could be Muslim. Go tell those people they're bigoted.


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## Sunni Man (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Muslims and Hindus cannot leave peacefully with one another. So they created Pakistan for the Muslims to live. Only Hindus are really allowed in India to live. And that's how it should be.



DavidS are you really that stupid???

Have you ever heard of the Taj Mahal? 

Considered by many to be the most beautiful building in the world!

It was built when the Muslims ruled India for almost 300 years starting in the 1600's

And in your ignorance you say Muslims have NO history in India.

DavidS you without a doubt, as we say in Texas, "dumber than dirt"!


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## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Bigoted? The Muslims fought tooth and nail for their own country in Western India. They fought for nearly 100 years for the creation of an Islamic state - and on August 14, 1947 they carved up ancient India and they created East Pakistan. 15 million people immigrated east and west... hundreds of thousands died so India could be Hindu and Pakistan could be Muslim. Go tell those people they're bigoted.



You didn't answer me. Are you packing to go where Jews belong ?


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## Silence (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Muslims and Hindus cannot leave peacefully with one another. So they created Pakistan for the Muslims to live. Only Hindus are really allowed in India to live. And that's how it should be.




you sound really stupid IMO.  

So should they just create these little sections of the world and force people to live in them according to who gets along with whom?  

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a religious war between the protestants and catholics that wags to this day in Ireland?  who do you suppose should get that country?  

Almost every religious group has extremists who use their "god" as a weapon and an excuse to commit violence against others.


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## Tech_Esq (Nov 26, 2008)

Ravi said:


> So far one witness said they were targeting westeners? I guess we will eventually find out, but the hotel list I saw weren't western owned hotels so it seems a bit odd.



Look at my list of hotels earlier. The Taj is a 5 star hotel. Look back at my post about the Brit that escaped.


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## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> Religions: Hindu 80.5%, Muslim 13.4%, Christian 2.3%, Sikh 1.9%, other 1.8%, unspecified 0.1% (2001 census)
> According to https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/in.html



Amazing. How many people died so Muslims could exist independent of India and live in Pakistan and now 13.4% of India's population is Muslim. Why create Pakistan if they're just going to live in India?

Religious countries should be inhabited by its native people who want to live in peace. Now, Israel is different because Judaism, Christianity AND Islam all originate from Israel. But France should be Catholic and if other religions want to live in England, they can but only if they do so peacefully. Same with France. How many riots were there last year from Muslims outside Paris? Again, Muslims not being able to co-exist peacefully with their neighbors. We see this in Thailand, Indonesia, Israel, America, Pakistan... it's all over the world, like a disease. 

And today my best friend is scared shitless to ride the subways because of intelligence that more Muslim extremists want to target and destroy as many Americans during the holiday season as possible. I'm getting very tired of this crap. The world must soon decide if it is going to allow this screaming brat to keep crying or if it's going to do something about it once and for all.


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## Sunni Man (Nov 26, 2008)

Tech_Esq said:


> And aside from being appalled what do they DO about it? Do they speak out as Muslims against this activity? Because that is what is needed.


Ok, I am a Muslim.

Any attack against innocent civilians is unIslamic and is forbidden in the Quran.

It is to be condemned. Period.

There;  A muslim has spoken out against this act.

Do you feel better?


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## Silence (Nov 26, 2008)

Tech_Esq said:


> And aside from being appalled what do they DO about it? Do they speak out as Muslims against this activity? Because that is what is needed. They have to take their religion back from these idiots. If they decide to do nothing, they shouldn't be surprised when people believe they agree with the terrorists.



So by your theory every white male who doesn't publically speak out against serial killers must agree with the actions of serial killers, since statistics show that most serial killers are white males.  Right?  

or how about extremist Christians who bomb abortion clinics?  if, as a Christian you don't speak out, that must mean you agree with them.  

or better...if you're catholic and you don't denounce your faith and leave the church over the molesting of children by priests you must agree with the church's inaction in punishing these criminals.... 

what a dumb fucking thing to believe...that somehow it's EVERY muslims responsibility to reign in these whackos who have twisted the islamic beliefs into something violent and deadly.  

I'll believe that when I start seeing other religions start taking full responsibility for the shit extremists within their groups do...


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## Tech_Esq (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Ok, I am a Muslim.
> 
> Any attack against innocent civilians is unIslamic and is forbidden in the Quran.
> 
> ...



Hey buddy, it's your religion. It isn't about me feeling better. You have to purify your religion and cleanse it of these animals who are hiding behind it. It is your job as a Muslim. This would be a true Jihad in the Muslim sense of the word.


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## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> we are all watching the live news dumbass...i swear sunni how can you join these people...in their religion...hell i am pretty tolerant of most...but you and your fellow islamics are hardy impressive in your tolerance or love of others...i am sorry as a pagan i will take my chances with the christians and jews


thank you, at least those that are following the teachings of Christ arent trying to kill you for what you believe, we might talk you to death though


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## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

Silence said:


> > So should they just create these little sections of the world and force people to live in them according to who gets along with whom?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Amazing. How many people died so Muslims could exist independent of India and live in Pakistan and now 13.4% of India's population is Muslim. Why create Pakistan if they're just going to live in India?
> 
> Religious countries should be inhabited by its native people who want to live in peace. Now, Israel is different because Judaism, Christianity AND Islam all originate from Israel. But France should be Catholic and if other religions want to live in England, they can but only if they do so peacefully. Same with France. How many riots were there last year from Muslims outside Paris? Again, Muslims not being able to co-exist peacefully with their neighbors. We see this in Thailand, Indonesia, Israel, America, Pakistan... it's all over the world, like a disease.
> 
> And today my best friend is scared shitless to ride the subways because of intelligence that more Muslim extremists want to target and destroy as many Americans during the holiday season as possible. I'm getting very tired of this crap. The world must soon decide if it is going to allow this screaming brat to keep crying or if it's going to do something about it once and for all.




You're a zionest idiot. Go to Israel and protect it. Leave America out of it. You have absolutely NO credibilty when it comes to religious segregation.


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## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Ok, I am a Muslim.
> 
> Any attack against innocent civilians is unIslamic and is forbidden in the Quran.
> 
> ...



So then you condemn was Hamas, Jihad and Fatah have done to Israeli citizens?


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## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> You didn't answer me. Are you packing to go where Jews belong ?



The Jews belong anywhere they are welcomed. One day I will return to my homeland, but for today I live in America. Muslims are not welcome in India. Nor should they be.


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## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

are you people so stupid...he said..."innocent civilians" didnt he...now ask him who is innocent?

the devil is always in the details or at least the semantics


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## Tech_Esq (Nov 26, 2008)

Silence said:


> So by your theory every white male who doesn't publically speak out against serial killers must agree with the actions of serial killers, since statistics show that most serial killers are white males.  Right?



Why, do you think there is a lack of people of every description condemning serial killers? I don't. I think everyone including white people make it known that they find each act plenty vile.



> or how about extremist Christians who bomb abortion clinics?  if, as a Christian you don't speak out, that must mean you agree with them.



Yes, I think evangelicals and catholics do have a special need to make clear that they do not support this type of terrorism.



> or better...if you're catholic and you don't denounce your faith and leave the church over the molesting of children by priests you must agree with the church's inaction in punishing these criminals....


I don't think terrorism and creepy priests are the same thing. But, yes in the sense that Catholics have the duty to cleanse their religion of those animals, it is the same. I don't believe the path you suggest is appropriate.



> what a dumb fucking thing to believe...that somehow it's EVERY muslims responsibility to reign in these whackos who have twisted the islamic beliefs into something violent and deadly.


It doesn't have to be EVERY Muslim, but Muslims need to be clear what side of this they are on. Thus far there has been little more than a bare murmur of reproach.



> I'll believe that when I start seeing other religions start taking full responsibility for the shit extremists within their groups do...



That's bullshit.


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## Silence (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Silence said:
> 
> 
> > Force people? They fought tooth and nail for their own country! You don't understand this. You're a liberal. Liberals think everyone can live peacefully with each other, hold hands and sing kumbaya. This is the biggest problem with liberalism. India belongs to Indian Hindus. Not Muslims. India does not have religious tolerance, nor should it. India has existed for thousands of years through dozens of dynasties. There was a huge movement for a hundred years or so where the Muslims wanted their own country to move into. They view it as their American Revolution. Once Pakistan was created, they kicked all of the Hindus out of their country. So all the Hindus left Pakistan carrying their bare essentials and walked hundreds of miles to settle down in India, many of them not making it. The same happened with all of the Muslims living in India. Hindus kicked them out. There was a great video about this on ABC News about 11 years ago when Peter Jennings was discussing Kashmire.
> ...


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## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> The Jews belong anywhere they are welcomed. One day I will return to my homeland, but for today I live in America. Muslims are not welcome in India. Nor should they be.



Spoken like a true racist Jew. And you wonder why people become anti-semitic.


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## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> are you people so stupid...he said..."innocent civilians" didnt he...now ask him who is innocent?
> 
> the devil is always in the details or at least the semantics



HA! Great point, Bones!


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## Sunni Man (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Muslims are not welcome in India. Nor should they be.


You do realise that Indian society and culture have a huge Islamic history and influence?


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## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Spoken like a true racist Jew. And you wonder why people become anti-semitic.



How is racist to say that only Indians belong in India? Are the 1 billion Indians racists as well because they sure as hell don't want Muslims in their country.


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## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> You do realise that Indian society and culture have a huge Islamic history and influence?



That's only very recent. India was around for thousands of years before Muhammad was a gleam in his mother's eye.

Indian civilization is as old or even older than the ancient Kingdom of Israel. Along with China, India is one of the oldest and greatest civilizations of all time.


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## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

i wonder if the terrorist have set the hotel on fire to bring out the guests.....and then will execute them as they leave their rooms...


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## Sunni Man (Nov 26, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Spoken like a true racist Jew. And you wonder why people become anti-semitic.


DavidS is a racist Zionist Jew.

Believe me the Zionist Jews learned from their Nazi masters very well.

In fact, they are far more devious and evil that the Nazis ever were!


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## Silence (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> How is racist to say that only Indians belong in India? Are the 1 billion Indians racists as well because they sure as hell don't want Muslims in their country.



are you denying that there are in fact muslim indians?  I'll be sure to let the girl I work with, who was born in india know this fact... she'll be quite surprised I'm sure 

IMO the reaction to muslims following 9/11 is no different than the reaction Japanese people received following Pearl Harbor.  Painting an entire group of people with the broad brush of the actions of a few is BULLSHIT!  

and I don't think that a muslim needs to make a public declaration denouncing the actions of these monsters.  I think it should be assumed they denounce it if they live their lives peacefully and within the confines of the laws of society.


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## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

Silence said:


> DavidS said:
> 
> 
> > so each religion should get their very own country huh?
> ...


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## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

Silence said:


> are you denying that there are in fact muslim indians?



What do you think Pakistanis are? Arabs? HA!


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## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> That's only very recent. India was around for thousands of years before Muhammad was a gleam in his mother's eye.
> 
> Indian civilization is as old or even older than the ancient Kingdom of Israel. Along with China, India is one of the oldest and greatest civilizations of all time.



Do Muslims live in Israel ?


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## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> DavidS is a racist Zionist Jew.
> 
> Believe me the Zionist Jews learned from their Nazi masters very well.
> 
> In fact, they are far more devious and evil that the Nazis ever were!



You didn't answer my question. Do you condemn the terrorist attacks on Israelis civilians?


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## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Do Muslims live in Israel ?



Muslims live in every country in the world - whether they are welcome or not.


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## Sunni Man (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> That's only very recent. India was around for thousands of years before Muhammad was a gleam in his mother's eye.
> 
> Indian civilization is as old or even older than the ancient Kingdom of Israel. Along with China, India is one of the oldest and greatest civilizations of all time.


The Indians who live there are part of that ancient history.

Some are Hindu, some are Muslims, and others Christian.

But they are all Indians.

Why in your bigoted mind do you think the Indian Muslims should be kicked out?

Indians who claim Islam as a religion are no different than Indians who claim any other religion.


----------



## Silence (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Christians have dozens of countries, Muslims have dozens of countries... Jews have one country... so, yes.



so I should tell all the Jewish lawyers I work with to get the fuck out of this country since they don't belong here?  you really are a racist arent you?  wow.  




> Again, you're not paying attention. America was created as a melting pot where everyone from every race and religion can come and live. No other country exists like this - nor should there be. We are not like every other country out there and if you were cultured, you would know this.



if I were cultured?   you're the idiot who sounds like he's got verbal diarrhea with all your racist bullshit.  

I understand the uniqueness of MY country...not YOUR country since you're a Jew and you only have ONE country... but why you or anyone would think that other religions and cultures shouldn't work towards harmony is beyond me.  We all share this planet.  We're all HUMAN BEINGS.  If we stopped looking at eachother and judging based on the things about ourselves we can not change then the world would be a better place.  

Now you were born Jewish I assume... I shouldn't judge you for being Jewish... I doubt you were born an asshole....so I choose to judge you on being an asshole... 

that's how the world should work.


----------



## Silence (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> What do you think Pakistanis are? Arabs? HA!



she wasn't born in Pakistan...she was born in INDIA... she's indian... fuck you should be smacked.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> You didn't answer my question. Do you condemn the terrorist attacks on Israelis civilians?


Why are you trying to change this to a debate about Israel?


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Muslims live in every country in the world - whether they are welcome or not.



Why does Israel allow it ?


----------



## Tech_Esq (Nov 26, 2008)

Silence said:


> IMO the reaction to muslims following 9/11 is no different than the reaction Japanese people received following Pearl Harbor.  Painting an entire group of people with the broad brush of the actions of a few is BULLSHIT!
> 
> and I don't think that a muslim needs to make a public declaration denouncing the actions of these monsters.  I think it should be assumed they denounce it if they live their lives peacefully and within the confines of the laws of society.



Well, your opinion is full of shit. In what way do a few incidents and some name calling compare to the rounding up of every last Japanese on the West coast and incarcerating them in internment camps? What dumb statement.

What Muslims need to do is purge these animals from their religion and ensure their kind do not flourish within it. How they do that is none of our business, but if they choose to do it quietly then it should not surprise them that it is assumed they agree with the means and ends of groups using their religion and acting in their name.


----------



## Silence (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Muslims live in every country in the world - whether they are welcome or not.



Assholes and bigots live in every country in the world too, whether they are welcome or not... you're proof of that.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

Silence said:


> wow... you really are a fucking moron aren't you?
> 
> so each religion should get their very own country huh? *where the fuck does that leave the US?* we have every religion under the sun and we seem to live pretty peacefully for the most part....


i guess we should consult a Native American Shaman


----------



## Silence (Nov 26, 2008)

Tech_Esq said:


> Well, your opinion is full of shit. In what way do a few incidents and some name calling compare to the rounding up of every last Japanese on the West coast and incarcerating them in internment camps? What dumb statement.
> 
> What Muslims need to do is purge these animals from their religion and ensure their kind do not flourish within it. How they do that is none of our business, but if they choose to do it quietly then it should not surprise them that it is assumed they agree with the means and ends of groups using their religion and acting in their name.



and how do you suppose people who are NON VIOLENT would do that smart one?  should they become the thing they hate, a terrorist and killer?  good plan.  

and I was speaking of the ATTITUDE as much as anything.  Muslims are now looked upon as a threat regardless of their actions.  They are spit on and degraded and probably the only reason they weren't rounded up is because it's not the 1940s and everyone has a television set in their homes and Americans wouldn't stand for it.  I'm quite certain had the majority of Americans known what was happening in those camps it wouldn't have happened.


----------



## Silence (Nov 26, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> i guess we should consult a Native American Shaman



too true... the only people are REALLY belong here are Native Americans... those good and noble Christians murdered and stole their land.


----------



## Ravi (Nov 26, 2008)

Holy shit this thread is insane. Everyone is turning on each other...everyone hates each other.

How sad.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

Silence said:


> too true... the only people are REALLY belong here are Native Americans... those good and noble Christians murdered and stole their land.


some, that claimed to be christians, and some that really were, but were misguided, yes


----------



## del (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Bigoted? The Muslims fought tooth and nail for their own country in Western India. They fought for nearly 100 years for the creation of an Islamic state - and on August 14, 1947 they carved up ancient India and they created East Pakistan. 15 million people immigrated east and west... hundreds of thousands died so India could be Hindu and Pakistan could be Muslim. Go tell those people they're bigoted.



carved up ancient india?

you're kidding, right?


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 26, 2008)

I haven't read the entire thread before posting this but Fox showed a shot of a terrorits with a black tee shirt on with VERSA printed across the front. That ring a bell with anyone?


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 26, 2008)

I would almost bet that the bombing had something to do with the dispute over Kashmir


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

WillowTree said:


> I haven't read the entire thread before posting this but Fox showed a shot of a terrorits with a black tee shirt on with VERSA printed across the front. That ring a bell with anyone?


no, should it?


----------



## del (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> I would almost bet that the bombing had something to do with the dispute over Kashmir



duh
when hasn't it?


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 26, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> i mean no offense..but there is no friendly or non offensive way to say this....the news did overcover the negative esp after 9/11 but you saw what went down...the muslims in the detriot area...celebrating....where was the outpouring of sympathy that would have been given by any other major population inthe area...where was it...did we see muslims americans marching with american flags...no we saw inman saying very litte....you can play that ....people of peace crap but actions speak a lot louder than words...you are dealing with people who still do stone age things...ie....removal of a womans sexual organs....etc...honor killings....the list goes on and on...i dont think they can be assimulated or want to be...when something reasons to hold to the norms of the greater society....to the point of terrorism...then they must and will be dealt with...the religion of peace that kills over a cartoon?  the list is endless....you are dealing with a majority of people who are just a step ahead of nomadic herdsmen...with the mentality of cave men...even the upper classes ..such as saudi araba does not allow women freedoms...women die daily due to stupid ass ignorant religious believes in all countries but more so in backwards arabs countries...hell what i love is why in the hell dont we just let the muslims go at each other..  cause they will...





that's it in a nutshell,, it's all about them not respecting women's rights and human life for that matter.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 26, 2008)

WillowTree said:


> I haven't read the entire thread before posting this but Fox showed a shot of a terrorits with a black tee shirt on with VERSA printed across the front. That ring a bell with anyone?


It's just the name of a car sold in India


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 26, 2008)

del said:


> duh
> when hasn't it?


 I am sure you already knew that. 

Mainly just informing the board.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 26, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Holy shit this thread is insane. Everyone is turning on each other...everyone hates each other.
> 
> How sad.



well darling that ain't nothing new,,weren't you around when the election was going on..


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 26, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> no, should it?





I don't know, I'm asking if that means anything.


----------



## del (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> I am sure you already knew that.
> 
> Mainly just informing the board.



carry on- you're track record for reliable info is unparalleled.


----------



## CSM (Nov 26, 2008)

There is a group that is apparently claiming responsibility. According to CNN the Deccan Mujahideen has claimed responsibility. That particular group has a history of attacks in India.  

It is interesting that Mumbai is a large economic and business area for Western interests.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Why are you trying to change this to a debate about Israel?



You said you condemn terrorist attacks on innocent civilians. I asked you if you if that meant attacks on innocent civilians in Israel. You have, three times now, refused to answer the question you fucking hypocritical coward. 

Let me say this publicly: The killing or inhumane treatment of ANY civilian is to be condemned. Hindu, Jewish, Buddhist, Christian, Muslim, Arab, you name it. As I have said many times, I know people and work with people who are Arab Muslims. They condemn what the disgusting animals do to innocent civilians in Israel. Do you?


----------



## Ravi (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni, if you are okay with killing people for being gay it isn't a stretch to think you are okay with these types of terrorist attacks and therefore so are all Muslims.

Not that I believe they all are, nor do I really think you are a Muslim.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

del said:


> carved up ancient india?
> 
> you're kidding, right?



No, why?


----------



## del (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> No, why?



because ancient india wasn't a country- it was a patchwork of small states.

you really should educate yourself or stick to what you know, assuming that subject matter exists.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 26, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Sunni, if you are okay with killing people for being gay it isn't a stretch to think you are okay with these types of terrorist attacks and therefore so are all Muslims.


I have NEVER said that gays should be killed.

I have always said that I would support homosexuality being legally criminalized.

What ever LEGAL penalty was attached to that crime I would support.

Whether it was a lengthly prison sentence or even execution.

Execution is legal even in america and is not considered killing.

It is called justice and payment for a crime.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

Wikipedia has an article on this already.

26 November 2008 Mumbai attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> I have NEVER said that gays should be killed.
> 
> I have always said that I would support homosexuality being legally criminalized.
> 
> ...



You're a disgusting idiot. I would support deporting you to your home country.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> You're a disgusting idiot. I would support deporting you to your home country.


I'm already there squid brain! America!


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> I'm already there squid brain! America!



**insult on family member removed**


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> You said you condemn terrorist attacks on innocent civilians. I asked you if you if that meant attacks on innocent civilians in Israel. You have, three times now, refused to answer the question you fucking hypocritical coward.


Since you have decided to derail this thread into something about Israel.

Let me ask a question: Are all young adults, both boys and girls, required to spend time in the Israelie military after graduating school?


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> **insult on family member removed**


that was uncalled for
even to him
leave his mother out of it


----------



## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> I have NEVER said that gays should be killed.
> 
> I have always said that I would support homosexuality being legally criminalized.
> 
> ...



you did however said you would gleefully stone a person to death if it was legal...you got all these semantics they dont cover what you really say..dress it up but its still bullshit


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Your mother was a whore.


DavidS I buried my Mother earlier this year. She was a fine woman.

I have reported you to the Mods.


----------



## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Your mother was a whore.



yea no need for that comment attack sunni all you want but leave his family out of this...unless they begin to post on the board


----------



## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> DavidS I buried my Mother earlier this year. She was a fine woman.
> 
> I have reported you to the Mods.



sorry for your loss...its hard to lose a parent...you are just one step closer to being an orphan


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 26, 2008)

busara said:


> to dominate? just because all you hear are reports of these acts on the news does not mean that the majority of people holding the islamic faith hold these violent, radical views. just because the half hour news programs dont report it doesnt mean it doesnt exist



I have always maintained that the main difference between Christians and Muslims is that Christians who go to war in Christ's name are going against Christ's teachings.  Muslims who go to war in Muhammad's name are following Muhammad's teachings.

Can you refute that?


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> I have NEVER said that gays should be killed.
> 
> I have always said that I would support homosexuality being legally criminalized.
> 
> ...




Execution is considered killing, it's just not considered murder.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 26, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> sorry for your loss...its hard to lose a parent...you are just one step closer to being an orphan


Thank You Strollingbones.

She was 82 and she had a good life.

I am already an orphan as my Father went several years back.

Again, Thanks, now back to the fighting!!!


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Thank You Strollingbones.
> 
> She was 82 and she had a good life.
> 
> ...



You have my empathy as well Sunni.  I too am an orphan now.  I was lucky, I had my mom and Dad with me until my mid to late 40's.  I still miss them.

No one should ever attack another person personally, nor their parents or relatives.  It's not okay and it shows a distinct lack of debating skills.

Okay, now, sock-it-to-me


----------



## Annie (Nov 26, 2008)

Againsheila said:


> You have my empathy as well Sunni.  I too am an orphan now.  I was lucky, I had my mom and Dad with me until my mid to late 40's.  I still miss them.
> 
> No one should ever attack another person personally, nor their parents or relatives.  It's not okay and it shows a distinct lack of debating skills.
> 
> Okay, now, sock-it-to-me



Missing my parents and sister at this time of year. My sister who had down's and heart problems, lived beyond the expected. My mom was sick so long from strokes and then broken hips, we were happy for her escape, but still miss her. My dad, well haven't had time to process that loss last August '07, due to the ongoing plight of my nephew, but we desperately miss him. We give thanks this year that my nephew is still with us, that we are the family we are thanks to those who have gone from our presence.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!


----------



## Paulie (Nov 26, 2008)

This is happening on India's soil, it is India's problem.

We've got more than enough of our own problems right now.  You send your condolences, or pray, or whatever, and you move on.


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 26, 2008)

Annie said:


> Missing my parents and sister at this time of year. My sister who had down's and heart problems, lived beyond the expected. My mom was sick so long from strokes and then broken hips, we were happy for her escape, but still miss her. My dad, well haven't had time to process that loss last August '07, due to the ongoing plight of my nephew, but we desperately miss him. We give thanks this year that my nephew is still with us, that we are the family we are thanks to those who have gone from our presence.
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving everyone!



Happy Thanksgiving to you too Annie.  May God be with you.

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 26, 2008)

Paulitics said:


> This is happening on India's soil, it is India's problem.
> 
> We've got more than enough of our own problems right now.  You send your condolences, or pray, or whatever, and you move on.



Considering they were looking for Brits and Americans, I think this is one of our problems too, like it or not.


----------



## catzmeow (Nov 26, 2008)

Paulitics said:


> This is happening on India's soil, it is India's problem.
> 
> We've got more than enough of our own problems right now.  You send your condolences, or pray, or whatever, and you move on.



Can you bury your head in the sand a little deeper?  They went person by person, checking passports, and singling out Americans and Brits to take as hostages.  This is very definitely aimed at the west.  We have a responsibility to stand in solidarity with India as allies.


----------



## Paulie (Nov 26, 2008)

Againsheila said:


> Considering they were looking for Brits and Americans, I think this is one of our problems too, like it or not.



It's not a problem for me.  I am saddened by the loss, but I am saddened by the loss of people on our own soil as well.  People die everyday.  

We'd probably send troops in to respond to this before we'd ever send troops into South Central LA to respond to the plethora of people who are killed there everyday by senseless violence.


When we start caring more about who dies on our OWN soil, I'll start caring more about who dies on someone else's.

Right now I have enough on my plate worrying about the possible economic catastrophe that awaits us here.  

Frankly, I really don't give a shit about terrorists anymore.  They aren't even REMOTELY the threat to us they are made out to be.  We'll perish by way of our own stupidity in this country before terrorists ever get the best of us.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

Paulitics said:


> It's not a problem for me.  I am saddened by the loss, but I am saddened by the loss of people on our own soil as well.  People die everyday.
> 
> We'd probably send troops in to respond to this before we'd ever send troops into South Central LA to respond to the plethora of people who are killed there everyday by senseless violence.
> 
> ...


see, its this kind of narrowminded stupidity that lost Ron Paul any of my support
the world is not as small as it was in the 18th century
we can not ignore things that happen in other countries now like we could then
and even back then we didnt do what Paul wants
never in our history have we ever


----------



## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> see, its this kind of narrowminded stupidity that lost Ron Paul any of my support
> the world is not as small as it was in the 18th century
> we can not ignore things that happen in other countries now like we could then
> and even back then we didnt do what Paul wants
> never in our history have we ever




india stood with us...on 9/12/01...we should stand with them now....hell you cant outsource fucking terrorism....


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> yea no need for that comment attack sunni all you want but leave his family out of this...unless they begin to post on the board



My brother is gay. This son of a bitch is calling for the execution of my brother.


----------



## del (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> My brother is gay. This son of a bitch is calling for the execution of my brother.



bullshit. the only one who knew about your brother is you. you insulted another member's mother for no reason.
back off.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> My brother is gay. This son of a bitch is calling for the execution of my brother.


gives you no right to attack his mother


----------



## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

sunni advocates killing witches...i dont take it personally he has all rights to what he believes and i have never known sunni to attack anyone's family....he may attack you ...but not your family....give it up davids...you step into shit and the smell is staying with you


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> india stood with us...on 9/12/01...we should stand with them now....hell you cant outsource fucking terrorism....


i agree, but that wasnt the reason why i responded as i did
the whole "non-interventionist" crap is really isolationism
it didnt work the last time it was tried, why should we do it all over again


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> gives you no right to attack his mother



He calls for people who are gay to be executed, I call his mother a whore and you defend HIM?

I think you people need a reality check.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> sunni advocates killing witches...i dont take it personally he has all rights to what he believes and i have never known sunni to attack anyone's family....he may attack you ...but not your family....give it up davids...you step into shit and the smell is staying with you



That's fine. If he has a right to believe what he believes, so do I. I've stated what I believe about his family.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> He calls for people who are gay to be executed, I call his mother a whore and you defend HIM?
> 
> I think you people need a reality check.


reality check, i'm NOT defending him
you can call HIM any name in the book
in fact i likely have myself
but leave his MOTHER out of it
SHE did nothing to you


----------



## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

how is this for a reality check.....you fucked up..grow some balls...telll sunni you are sorry for calling his mother a whore..and move on.....

you made the attack personal..with the your mother blah blah blah....

sunni hates gays...not your brother...has he ever attacked your brother?


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> i agree, but that wasnt the reason why i responded as i did
> the whole "non-interventionist" crap is really isolationism
> it didnt work the last time it was tried, why should we do it all over again



It will be interesting to see who is being held hostage.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> how is this for a reality check.....you fucked up..grow some balls...telll sunni you are sorry for calling his mother a whore..and move on.....
> 
> you made the attack personal..with the your mother blah blah blah....
> 
> sunni hates gays...not your brother...has he ever attacked your brother?


i dont think DavidS understands that he didnt attack SunniMan, but his mother

kinda pathetic if you ask me


----------



## strollingbones (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> That's fine. If he has a right to believe what he believes, so do I. I've stated what I believe about his family.



you got to be a yankee right..what a pussy...its one thing to say that about a man's mother when you are within reach of the said man....but another to do it on cyber...what a fucking coward...i mean really how small can cyber dicks get?


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> how is this for a reality check.....you fucked up..grow some balls...telll sunni you are sorry for calling his mother a whore..and move on.....
> 
> you made the attack personal..with the your mother blah blah blah....
> 
> sunni hates gays...not your brother...has he ever attacked your brother?




By saying all gays should be executed, he is saying my brother should be executed. So, yes, he is attacking my family. I would rather die than apologize to that pig.


----------



## Old Rocks (Nov 26, 2008)

Tech_Esq said:


> Hey buddy, it's your religion. It isn't about me feeling better. You have to purify your religion and cleanse it of these animals who are hiding behind it. It is your job as a Muslim. This would be a true Jihad in the Muslim sense of the word.



OK, and you are doing what to cleanse the Christians who belong to the KKK out of Christian Churches?


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

Old Rocks said:


> OK, and you are doing what to cleanse the Christians who belong to the KKK out of Christian Churches?


the teachings of Christ should do that all on its own

but there are a lot of churches that the actual teachings of Christ are not found


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> the teachings of Christ should do that all on its own
> 
> but there are a lot of churches that the actual teachings of Christ are not found



I doubt very many people alive actually know the original teachings of Christ and not the warped version of "Christianity" that exists today.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> I doubt very many people alive actually know the original teachings of Christ and not the warped version of "Christianity" that exists today.


of course we do, they are in the bible
however, that doesnt stop someone from trying to twist those words into something they arent
btw, Jesus very explicitly told us we can not convert by the sword
so anyone doing so is CLEARLY not following the teachings of Christ


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

> Nov. 27 (Bloomberg) -- As many as 80 people were killed and 240 injured in India&#8217;s financial hub of Mumbai as gunmen armed with rifles and grenades raided five-star hotels in the country&#8217;s first terrorist attack targeting foreigners.
> 
> Fire spread through the luxury Taj Mahal Palace and Tower hotel, where terrorists were holding as many as 15 people hostage, the Press Trust of India reported. A little known Islamist group called the Deccan Mujahadeen claimed responsibility for the attacks, PTI said.
> 
> Army commandos moved into the Taj, Oberoi and Trident hotels to flush out the gunmen, the news agency said. Two attackers had entered one of the Trident&#8217;s restaurants saying they were looking for Americans and Britons, Times TV said



http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=asZkegbDKxQw&refer=home


----------



## Ravi (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> I have NEVER said that gays should be killed.
> 
> I have always said that I would support homosexuality being legally criminalized.
> 
> ...


Yep, just like some misguided jihad bullshit. Which terrorist group do you belong to?


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> By saying all gays should be executed, he is saying my brother should be executed. So, yes, he is attacking my family. I would rather die than apologize to that pig.



Be careful what you wish for....karma is a b*tch.


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Bloomberg.com: Worldwide



Lots of crucail information yet to be determined including the perpetrators and if there are hostages or not. It will sure be nice if we can stay out of it other than diplomatically.


----------



## Annie (Nov 26, 2008)

seems a merge is in order. Important topic, please don't allow multiple threads.


----------



## CSM (Nov 26, 2008)

Annie said:


> seems a merge is in order. Important topic, please don't allow multiple threads.



I would agree except the other thread went into lala land...  Maybe this one will stay on topic.


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

Annie said:


> seems a merge is in order. Important topic, please don't allow multiple threads.



I'm well aware of that Kathianne and so are the mods----the other thread degenerated into bullshit-----lets hope this one can stay on topic.


----------



## Ravi (Nov 26, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Lots of crucail information yet to be determined including the perpetrators and if there are hostages or not. It will sure be nice if we can stay out of it other than diplomatically.


So you are against the GWOT?


----------



## random3434 (Nov 26, 2008)

You know, I wonder about these American and British and others families, worrying about their kin tonight. Are they safe? Did they get killed? What's going to happen to them? How about those folks being held hostage. I just read through this entire thread, and want to say to some of you:


WTH?



A tragedy has occured where many people were murdered, with who knows what else happening out there. 


Let's talk about that maybe?


----------



## Annie (Nov 26, 2008)

Sorry, I'm not seeing the derailment of other thread.


----------



## Red Dawn (Nov 26, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Lots of crucail information yet to be determined including the perpetrators and if there are hostages or not.
> 
> *It will sure be nice if we can stay out of it other than diplomatically.*




WTF?  That's a weird thing for a Bush voter to say.  This was a coordinated attack on americans and other westerners.    I thought Bush voters were more hawkish.


----------



## Caligirl (Nov 26, 2008)

(This one is already derailing into whether the other one derailed. I suggest removing all off topic posts. Personally, i couldn't face opening the other because it is to big already. )

What I would like to know is why India?? I would have thought India of all place in the region would be stable and secure. What moticvation to hit india?


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> WTF?  That's a weird thing for a Bush voter to say.  This was a coordinated attack on americans and other westerners.    I thought Bush voters were more hawkish.



It was in India.

Scores killed in Mumbai rampage - CNN.com


----------



## Caligirl (Nov 26, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> WTF?  That's a weird thing for a Bush voter to say.  This was a coordinated attack on americans and other westerners.    I thought Bush voters were more hawkish.



I wouldn't have. A segment of the party yes, just as a segment of the dem party are hawkish.


----------



## Caligirl (Nov 26, 2008)

What is the motivation?


----------



## random3434 (Nov 26, 2008)

Caligirl said:


> (This one is already derailing into whether the other one derailed. I suggest removing all off topic posts. Personally, i couldn't face opening the other because it is to big already. )
> 
> What I would like to know is why India?? I would have thought India of all place in the region would be stable and secure. What moticvation to hit india?




Maybe because of the high number of Western citizens visiting there?


----------



## Ravi (Nov 26, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> It was in India.
> 
> Scores killed in Mumbai rampage - CNN.com


And so? Americans only deserve protection in the USA? An attack on "them" is meaningless to us?


----------



## Caligirl (Nov 26, 2008)

That is true of almost anywhere, I mean maybe, but it seems like a suboptimal assignment as a terrorist.


----------



## CSM (Nov 26, 2008)

Caligirl said:


> (This one is already derailing into whether the other one derailed. I suggest removing all off topic posts. Personally, i couldn't face opening the other because it is to big already. )
> 
> What I would like to know is why India?? I would have thought India of all place in the region would be stable and secure. What moticvation to hit india?



There have been other attacks similar to this over the past few years. I am not certain if the Deccan Mujahideen is connected to Al Queada or not but there has been a running gun battle between Hindus and Muslims going on. We don't hear much about it from our media for some strange reason.


----------



## Caligirl (Nov 26, 2008)

Ravi said:


> And so? Americans only deserve protection in the USA? An attack on "them" is meaningless to us?




No, an attack on India, like an attack on the subways of London or the trains of Spain are in one category. Attacks in Iraq etc are in a different category.

this makes sense to me.

btw I think no americans were killed, only westerners.


----------



## Caligirl (Nov 26, 2008)

CSM said:


> There have been other attacks similar to this over the past few years. I am not certain if the Deccan Mujahideen is connected to Al Queada or not but there has been a running gun battle between Hindus and Muslims going on. We don't hear much about it from our media for some strange reason.



Is this the cashmir issue?

today's event was directed at westerners, a different thing, no?


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

Caligirl said:


> (This one is already derailing into whether the other one derailed. I suggest removing all off topic posts. Personally, i couldn't face opening the other because it is to big already. )
> 
> What I would like to know is why India?? I would have thought India of all place in the region would be stable and secure. What moticvation to hit india?



I've been listening to all kinds of speculation. India has a long history of terrorist attacks since 9/11. Some speculate India's support for the US is being attacked and attempts are being made to recuit more young terrorists.


----------



## Caligirl (Nov 26, 2008)

Did the "home grown" terrorists in England (the twenty some from a year or so ago, that were caught running an attack on an airport etc)  originate in India? I am trying to recal.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> of course we do, they are in the bible



The bible today is NOT the word of Christ. The New Testament was been written and re-written and re-interpreted and re-written again it's a complete bastardization of the original teachings of Christ.

For instance, the original meaning of virgin was an un-wed woman who mothered a child. It had nothing to do with never having sex. The whole virgin theory is completely innacurate.


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

Caligirl said:


> Is this the cashmir issue?
> 
> today's event was directed at westerners, a different thing, no?



I heard someone theorize that it could pull Pakistani troops away for the Afghan border where they are threatennig Al quaeda's hideouts.


----------



## Red Dawn (Nov 26, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> It was in India.
> 
> Scores killed in Mumbai rampage - CNN.com



What about all those terrorist attacks overseas when Clinton was prez?

Didn't you Bush voters claim Clinton didn't do enough - and yet here, you're saying we should sit it out?


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

Caligirl said:


> Is this the cashmir issue?
> 
> today's event was directed at westerners, a different thing, no?



 I think Kashmir is always an issue. This attack apparently was aimed at India AND western interests. Two birds with one stone. Apparently a few terrorists we captured alive. Will they talk ?


----------



## CSM (Nov 26, 2008)

Caligirl said:


> Is this the cashmir issue?
> 
> today's event was directed at westerners, a different thing, no?



I really do not know. Until some semblence of order is restored I suspect all we will hear is rumor and overblown speculation.


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> What about all those terrorist attacks overseas when Clinton was prez?
> 
> Didn't you Bush voters claim Clinton didn't do enough - and yet here, you're saying we should sit it out?



Stop the damn partisanship. We have a president elect who is gonig to deal with it as he sees fit.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> The bible today is NOT the word of Christ. The New Testament was been written and re-written and re-interpreted and re-written again it's a complete bastardization of the original teachings of Christ.
> 
> For instance, the original meaning of virgin was an un-wed woman who mothered a child. It had nothing to do with never having sex. The whole virgin theory is completely innacurate.


like on so many other things, you are just WRONG


----------



## CSM (Nov 26, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> I heard someone theorize that it could pull Pakistani troops away for the Afghan border where they are threatennig Al quaeda's hideouts.



Interesting thought that. Again, I am not certain there is a connection between the two groups.  I did note that one of those killed was the head of India's counter terrorism organization.


----------



## CSM (Nov 26, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Stop the damn partisanship. We have a president elect who is gonig to deal with it as he sees fit.



Just a feeble attempt to derail this thread as well...


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

CSM said:


> I really do not know. Until some semblence of order is restored I suspect all we will hear is rumor and overblown speculation.



Agreed yet the claims of hostage situations continue. The Indian Navy just attacked the Somalian pirates too so it can't be really comfortable for them to say the least.


----------



## Red Dawn (Nov 26, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Stop the damn partisanship. We have a president elect who is gonig to deal with it as he sees fit.



This was a coordinated attack on Americans.  I hardly think we should sit it out and basically watch from the sidelines, as you suggested. 


We have every right to engage our global law enforcement capabilities.  I would be shocked if we don't have FBI and CIA over in India getting hands on with this, and getting in people's faces.   

Of course we shouldn't exercise the Bush voter strategy - launch a war over this.  Its a law enforcement and intelligence issue.  But, you're wrong that we should sit it out.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Stop the damn partisanship. We have a president elect who is gonig to deal with it as he sees fit.


but not till he actually becomes President
till then, it will be up to Bush
but i do find it interesting that red dawn is showing once again how little she actually knows


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

CSM said:


> Interesting thought that. Again, I am not certain there is a connection between the two groups.  I did note that one of those killed was the head of India's counter terrorism organization.



I found that odd also---talk about a hands on leader . CNN is showing armed men on hotel balconies.


----------



## Paulie (Nov 26, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> see, its this kind of narrowminded stupidity that lost Ron Paul any of my support
> the world is not as small as it was in the 18th century
> we can not ignore things that happen in other countries now like we could then
> and even back then we didnt do what Paul wants
> never in our history have we ever



Yeah, it's not enough that I'm saddened by the loss and I offer my condolences.  I should probably want a combat squadron and an Army brigade to be sent in to kill a couple thousand more people in the hopes we get those few bad ones.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> like on so many other things, you are just WRONG



The literal translation of Isiah 7:14, the word Almah, means young, un-wed mother. It has nothing to do with never having sex.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 26, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> What about all those terrorist attacks overseas when Clinton was prez?
> 
> Didn't you Bush voters claim Clinton didn't do enough - and yet here, you're saying we should sit it out?






well what do you think we should do


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Agreed yet the claims of hostage situations continue. The Indian Navy just attacked the Somalian pirates too so it can't be really comfortable for them to say the least.



Actually, the Indian Navy didn't sink a Somali mother ship. The Indian Navy sunk a Thai fishing boat accidentally instead.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> My brother is gay.



Sorry to hear that. I wouldn't know what to do if I had a pervert like that in my family!!


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> but not till he actually becomes President
> till then, it will be up to Bush
> but i do find it interesting that red dawn is showing once again how little she actually knows



Bush will step aside and let Obama call the shots.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Sorry to hear that. I wouldn't know what to do if I had a pervert like that in my family!!


oh man  him mentioning his brother does NOT give you carte blanche to attack him

and you dont get tit for tat because he attacked your mother


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 26, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Stop the damn partisanship. We have a president elect who is gonig to deal with it as he sees fit.





I've been asking that question to myself all day.. What would Obama do?


----------



## sylverfoxx (Nov 26, 2008)

Paulitics said:


> It's not a problem for me.  I am saddened by the loss, but I am saddened by the loss of people on our own soil as well.  People die everyday.
> 
> We'd probably send troops in to respond to this before we'd ever send troops into South Central LA to respond to the plethora of people who are killed there everyday by senseless violence.
> 
> ...


No truer words have ever been spoken!!!


----------



## random3434 (Nov 26, 2008)

WillowTree said:


> I've been asking that question to myself all day.. What would Obama do?



Answer me this question, can he do anything right now, or only GWB has the power to do anything?


----------



## CSM (Nov 26, 2008)

sylverfoxx said:


> No truer words have ever been spoken!!!



Raises an interesting question: Should our government be able to protect US citizens (particularly civilians) no matter where they are in the world?


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 26, 2008)

Echo Zulu said:


> Answer me this question, can he do anything right now, or only GWB has the power to do anything?




he can't do anything.. like I said,, I've just been wondering what he would do..


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

Paulitics said:


> Yeah, it's not enough that I'm saddened by the loss and I offer my condolences.  I should probably want a combat squadron and an Army brigade to be sent in to kill a couple thousand more people in the hopes we get those few bad ones.


no one said anything remotely like that
how about we work with and assist the Indian authorities to find out who they are and where they are from


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

WillowTree said:


> well what do you think we should do



What we should have done from the get go was invade ALL Islamic fundamentalist countries and wipe out all of their terrorist training camps, wipe out their government that supported terrorists and any resistence movements. Instead of doing this piecemeal, we should have gone in and destroyed all of these bastards. In fact, what we should've done AGES ago was take the handcuffs off of Israel and allow Israel to wipe out Hamas, Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad. Islamic terrorism would've been stopped decades ago had we let Israel properly defend its country. If these bastards had taken over Mexico and were launching attacks on US soil from Mexico, the United States would not stand for it, would go in and wipe them all out and restore the Mexican government. You nip terrorism in the bud before it's allowed to blossom or it'll explode all over the world like it's doing right now.

The Human Rights organizations have been taken over by neo-radical far left liberals who think that terrorists are resistence fighters and they have the right to blow people up. The United Nations has somehow been conned into believing them and has handcuffed countries from doing what they need to do in order to defend themselves. 

Terrorism needs to be wiped out NOW or it will explode and become uncontrolable.


----------



## Ravi (Nov 26, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Bush will step aside and let Obama call the shots.


It surprises me that anyone thinks you aren't the most hyperpartisan poster here.

Is it true that you think fighting terrorism is a waste of time?


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 26, 2008)

CSM said:


> Raises an interesting question: Should our government be able to protect US citizens (particularly civilians) no matter where they are in the world?


The FBI has gone to other countries to help investigate when attacks have involved American citizens in the past.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Sorry to hear that. I wouldn't know what to do if I had a pervert like that in my family!!



I reported you to a moderator. My brother is a firefighter and was nearly killed on 9/11 defending this city from YOUR people.


----------



## CSM (Nov 26, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> no one said anything remotely like that
> how about we work with and assist the Indian authorities to find out who they are and where they are from



Seems to me that the Indian government would have to request our help specifically. I would imagine that if it is determined that this group is going global that the Indian government will have their intel/counter terrorism folks work with other like organizations from many nations and not just the US.


----------



## Paulie (Nov 26, 2008)

CSM said:


> Raises an interesting question: Should our government be able to protect US citizens (particularly civilians) no matter where they are in the world?



When they're located in another sovereign country?

Where would we even get the legal authority?

We aren't even allowed to extradite Americans from a lot of countries when they committed a crime HERE.  So how could we possibly have any authority to militarily enter a sovereign nation to protect anyone?

You enter another country at your own risk.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> I reported you to a moderator. My brother is a firefighter and was nearly killed on 9/11 defending this city from YOUR people.


You are the one who brought your brother up and posted about him and his being a sodomite.

So why are you jumping on me!!


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

CSM said:


> Seems to me that the Indian government would have to request our help specifically. I would imagine that if it is determined that this group is going global that the Indian government will have their intel/counter terrorism folks work with other like organizations from many nations and not just the US.


clearly, to "work with and assist" one would need to have permission from Indian authorities


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

Echo Zulu said:


> Answer me this question, can he do anything right now, or only GWB has the power to do anything?



George Bush has the power to do whatever he wants. He can bypass Congress to send military into any country he wants to, he can get the Federal Reserve to spend trillions without the authorization of Congress... he can do ANYTHING he wants to do. But I doubt India would welcome US troops on their soil. There are reports of hostages, but no one knows how many. I do have complete faith in the Indian military which is relatively modernized and has a great amount of experience dealing with these bastards.


----------



## CSM (Nov 26, 2008)

Paulitics said:


> When they're located in another sovereign country?
> 
> Where would we even get the legal authority?
> 
> ...



Good questions. I certainly don't have the answer. 

There are precedents; the Marines have such a case referenced in their hymn. Of course, things have changed internationally since then.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> You are the one who brought your brother up and posted about him and his being a sodomite.
> 
> So why are you jumping on me!!



He is a great American, something you will never be.


----------



## CSM (Nov 26, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> clearly, to "work with and assist" one would need to have permission from Indian authorities



Yep, and such aid does not necessarily mean military assistance nor does it exclude it....I guess it would depend on what India requests/needs.  The Indian military is fairly modern so I dont think US military presence would be asked for or wanted.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> George Bush has the power to do whatever he wants. He can bypass Congress to send military into any country he wants to, he can get the Federal Reserve to spend trillions without the authorization of Congress... he can do ANYTHING he wants to do. But I doubt India would welcome US troops on their soil. There are reports of hostages, but no one knows how many. I do have complete faith in the Indian military which is relatively modernized and has a great amount of experience dealing with these bastards.


again, WRONG, Bush cant spend any money without congressional authorization
sheeesh david, you are losing a ton of credibility


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> again, WRONG, Bush cant spend any money without congressional authorization
> sheeesh david, you are losing a ton of credibility



Really? So when did Congress vote on the *$800 billion* that the Fed just released?


----------



## CSM (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> What we should have done from the get go was invade ALL Islamic fundamentalist countries and wipe out all of their terrorist training camps, wipe out their government that supported terrorists and any resistence movements. Instead of doing this piecemeal, we should have gone in and destroyed all of these bastards. In fact, what we should've done AGES ago was take the handcuffs off of Israel and allow Israel to wipe out Hamas, Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad. Islamic terrorism would've been stopped decades ago had we let Israel properly defend its country. If these bastards had taken over Mexico and were launching attacks on US soil from Mexico, the United States would not stand for it, would go in and wipe them all out and restore the Mexican government. You nip terrorism in the bud before it's allowed to blossom or it'll explode all over the world like it's doing right now.
> 
> The Human Rights organizations have been taken over by neo-radical far left liberals who think that terrorists are resistence fighters and they have the right to blow people up. The United Nations has somehow been conned into believing them and has handcuffed countries from doing what they need to do in order to defend themselves.
> 
> Terrorism needs to be wiped out NOW or it will explode and become uncontrolable.



The US doesn't have the resources to attack every Muslim nation on the planet that may or may not have terrorists within their borders; it is also doubtful that the rest of the world would standby while the US carried out such attacks and the US citizenry would not stand for it either.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

CSM said:


> Yep, and such aid does not necessarily mean military assistance nor does it exclude it....I guess it would depend on what India requests/needs.  The Indian military is fairly modern so I dont think US military presence would be asked for or wanted.


exactly


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Really? So when did Congress vote on the *$800 billion* that the Fed just released?


shoot, that was a couple weeks ago, before the election, remember, Obama voted FOR it


----------



## random3434 (Nov 26, 2008)

CSM said:


> Yep, and such aid does not necessarily mean military assistance nor does it exclude it....I guess it would depend on what India requests/needs.  The Indian military is fairly modern so I dont think US military presence would be asked for or wanted.



I'm glad to hear the Indian Military is strong, I'm sorry to say I'm not as informed about India as I should be, but have a feeling I will be learning a LOT these next few days. All I can do right now is pray for the people involved and their families....


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

Echo Zulu said:


> I'm glad to hear the Indian Military is strong, I'm sorry to say I'm not as informed about India as I should be, but have a feeling I will be learning a LOT these next few days. All I can do right now is pray for the people involved and their families....


they had to be, they have hostile neighbors


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> shoot, that was a couple weeks ago, before the election, remember, Obama voted FOR it



No, no, no. That was TARP. That was the $700 billion. The government pumped $800 billion into the economy just yesterday. There was no congressional vote, no authorization, no sub-committees, no hearings, just $800 billion spent by authorization of the one and only Dubyah.

Washington Times - Government pumps $800 billion more into economy


----------



## CSM (Nov 26, 2008)

Echo Zulu said:


> I'm glad to hear the Indian Military is strong, I'm sorry to say I'm not as informed about India as I should be, but have a feeling I will be learning a LOT these next few days. All I can do right now is pray for the people involved and their families....



I am in much the same boat. India has not exactly been at the forefront of my interests.


----------



## Red Dawn (Nov 26, 2008)

CSM said:


> Raises an interesting question: Should our government be able to protect US citizens (particularly civilians) no matter where they are in the world?




Of course they should, they do, and they must.   An american passport entitles you to assistance and protection anywhere on the globe.  That's the job of any government. 

I'm frankly shocked that Bush voters are throwing up their hands, and claiming there's really not much we can do.  After a decade of criticism of Clinton's reactions to international terrorist attacks against americans.   

The FBI has offices worldwide.  Its' their _responsiblity_ to assist and protect americans on a global scale. 

It was FBI agents in Pakistan that helped arrest some of those high profile al qaeda dudes that were captured there.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

How sad is it that with all of the billions spent in defense and intelligence since 9/11, the United States has NEVER heard of this terrorist group and just minutes after this group claimed responsibility, you could google it and come up with hundreds of websites.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Terrorism needs to be wiped out NOW or it will explode and become uncontrolable.


I for once agree with DavidS

Terrorism needs to be wiped out NOW!!!

Israel is the worst terrorist nation.

So we should start with these Zionist terrorists first!!!!


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

Have to hand it to FoxNews, their coverage has been SPOT ON. There have now been 10 attacks confirmed. This was very well coordinated. I'm willing to bet Al Queda is looking on and taking notes. I very much doubt they like to be upstaged like this.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> No, no, no. That was TARP. That was the $700 billion. The government pumped $800 billion into the economy just yesterday. There was no congressional vote, no authorization, no sub-committees, no hearings, just $800 billion spent by authorization of the one and only Dubyah.
> 
> Washington Times - Government pumps $800 billion more into economy


hmmm, interesting
i dont see how thats in any way constitutional
yet the reporter didnt even bring that up in the story


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Have to hand it to FoxNews, their coverage has been SPOT ON. There have now been 10 attacks confirmed. This was very well coordinated. I'm willing to bet Al Queda is looking on and taking notes. I very much doubt they like to be upstaged like this.


how do you know they didnt have a hand in it, or that this group making the claim isnt lying


----------



## CSM (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> How sad is it that with all of the billions spent in defense and intelligence since 9/11, the United States has NEVER heard of this terrorist group and just minutes after this group claimed responsibility, you could google it and come up with hundreds of websites.



Is it the "United States" that has never heard of them or the US public who doesn't even care enough to inform themselves of domestic issues never mind global issues that has never heard of them?


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 26, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> Of course they should, they do, and they must.   An american passport entitles you to assistance and protection anywhere on the globe.  That's the job of any government.
> 
> I'm frankly shocked that Bush voters are throwing up their hands, and claiming there's really not much we can do.  After a decade of criticism of Clinton's reactions to international terrorist attacks against americans.
> 
> ...






Well, Frankly, I'm shocked that you now,, after all these years think we should act on our own behalf, unilaterally, and without the blessing of the UN.. How hypocritical of you.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 26, 2008)

Here is what DavidS rep to me said: "cocksucking faggot asshole licker"

So DavidS, considering your earlier revelation in the thread.

Is this a good or bad thing when you call someone these things???


----------



## Red Dawn (Nov 26, 2008)

Paulitics said:


> When they're located in another sovereign country?
> 
> Where would we even get the legal authority?
> 
> ...




That's dead wrong. 

If you carry an american passport anywhere on the globe, the US government is obligated to assist you and protect you.   That's standard operating procedure for any government.  Its the most fundamental responsibility of any government. 

No one is talking about invading India.  Which would make about as much sense as invading Iraq after 9/11. 

We're fortunate enough to live in a country with a global law enforcement and intelligence capability.   The FBI has dozens of offices worldwide.  I'm sure other government agencies do to.    

Its their job to coordinate with local officials, engage in joint law enforcement operations, and if neccessary, get in the face and harass local officials.  Americans may not be the top priority of Indians or Pakistanis.  But, the FBI is supposed to be there to make sure they do make it a priority.


----------



## Red Dawn (Nov 26, 2008)

WillowTree said:


> Well, Frankly, I'm shocked that you now,, after all these years think we should act on our own behalf, unilaterally, and without the blessing of the UN.. How hypocritical of you.




I've never been against aggressive law enforcement, intelligence, or covert ops when neccessary.  Stop lying. 

You're the one that was a cheerleader for invading a nation,and spending a trillion dollars there, when Iraq didn't have anything to do with 9/11 or al qaeda.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> how do you know they didnt have a hand in it, or that this group making the claim isnt lying



They've had Bolton, former Ambassador to the UN, a terrorist specialist with a Muslim name (can't remember it) and a former CIA director. Al Queda blows things up. These people don't because they feel it's "un-islamic."


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

CSM said:


> Is it the "United States" that has never heard of them or the US public who doesn't even care enough to inform themselves of domestic issues never mind global issues that has never heard of them?



The United States. All the news networks, including FOX have quoted sources from the CIA and State Department that they've never heard of this group before.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 26, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> I've never been against aggressive law enforcement, intelligence, or covert ops when neccessary.  Stop lying.
> 
> You're the one that was a cheerleader for invading a nation,and spending a trillion dollars there, when Iraq didn't have anything to do with 9/11 or al qaeda.






I've never accused you of lying.. I'd give you the benefit of the doubt and say you're mistaken.. 

but I'll give you this much,, you've got yer talking points down pat. good little liberal that you are.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

CNN: 87 people dead so far. Over 100 held hostage. Possible Indian stock market closure.


----------



## Red Dawn (Nov 26, 2008)

WillowTree said:


> I've never accused you of lying.. I'd give you the benefit of the doubt and say you're mistaken..
> 
> but I'll give you this much,, you've got yer talking points down pat. good little liberal that you are.




Are you drunk?   Where have you been the last 4 years?  Going back to 2004, at least, most liberals and Democrats have been in favor of fighting terrorism primarily with aggressive law enforcement, covert ops, and intelligence operations.   John Kerry got laughed at by Bush voters for suggesting that. 

Bush voters plan?  Invade Iraq and Iran, two countries that didn't have anything to do with al qaeda.    Who's the dummy now?  That would be you.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> Are you drunk?   Where have you been the last 4 years?  Going back to 2004, at least, most liberals and Democrats have been in favor of fighting terrorism primarily with aggressive law enforcement, covert ops, and intelligence operations.   John Kerry got laughed at by Bush voters for suggesting that.
> 
> Bush voters plan?  Invade Iraq and Iran, two countries that didn't have anything to do with al qaeda.    Who's the dummy now?  That would be you.


where the fuck do you come up with that shit
you dont know what you are talking about and you're proving it with every post


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 26, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> where the fuck do you come up with that shit
> you dont know what you are talking about and you're proving it with every post






amen to that!


----------



## Red Dawn (Nov 26, 2008)

> Posted by Red Dawn
> 
> Are you drunk? Where have you been the last 4 years? Going back to 2004, at least, most liberals and Democrats have been in favor of fighting terrorism primarily with aggressive law enforcement, covert ops, and intelligence operations. John Kerry got laughed at by Bush voters for suggesting that.
> 
> Bush voters plan? Invade Iraq and Iran, two countries that didn't have anything to do with al qaeda. Who's the dummy now? That would be you.






DiveCon said:


> *where the fuck do you come up with that shit*
> you dont know what you are talking about and you're proving it with every post




_God damn you're a dumb fuck_


NATIONAL REVIEW
February 10, 2004

Senator Kerry has offered his own prescription by saying the following about the war on terrorism:

"_But it's *primarily an intelligence and law enforcement operation that requires cooperation around the world &#8212; the very thing this administration is worst at*_...and I think this administration's arrogant and ideological policy is taking America down a more dangerous path.

Seth Leibsohn & Shaun Small on John Kerry on National Review Online


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> Are you drunk?   Where have you been the last 4 years?  Going back to 2004, at least, most liberals and Democrats have been in favor of fighting terrorism primarily with aggressive law enforcement, covert ops, and intelligence operations.   John Kerry got laughed at by Bush voters for suggesting that.
> 
> Bush voters plan?  Invade Iraq and Iran, two countries that didn't have anything to do with al qaeda.    Who's the dummy now?  That would be you.



Sorry - this is way off base. The liberals have been supplying lawyers for the terrorists and condemning America for declaring war on terrorism. Liberalism has stood idly by criticizing America for going after these bastards.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 26, 2008)

John EffenKerry is an idiot! Pure unadulterated idiot!


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 26, 2008)

wonder how many "covert" police johneffenkerry would use to fight global terrorism..


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## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> The United States. All the news networks, including FOX have quoted sources from the CIA and State Department that they've never heard of this group before.



 What an aburd statement---of course members of the United States Intelligence community have heard of these groups. CNN has been reporting on them.


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> I reported you to a moderator. My brother is a firefighter and was nearly killed on 9/11 defending this city from YOUR people.



My thanks to your brother.  He's a brave man.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> _God damn you're a dumb fuck_
> 
> 
> NATIONAL REVIEW
> ...


again, what the fuck does that have to do with anything
grow the fuck up and stop looking like a damned fool


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

Pakistan is a failing country. It's problems are spilling out all over Asia. It will have to be dealt with sooner or later.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=139188


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Pakistan is a failing country. It's problems are spilling out all over Asia. It will have to be dealt with sooner or later.
> 
> US cannot see Pakistan fail but options are fast diminishing



It should have been dealt with on 9/12/01.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> It should have been dealt with on 9/12/01.


on 9/12/01, they at least appeared to be working with us


----------



## Old Rocks (Nov 26, 2008)

Bin Laden and Al Queda should have been dealt with on 9-12-01. Unfortunately we have an idiot for a President. Bin Laden is still alive and free, over seven years later, and has proven that you can indeed strike America a greivous blow and get away with it. Thank You, George W. Bush.


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

Old Rocks said:


> Bin Laden and Al Queda should have been dealt with on 9-12-01. Unfortunately we have an idiot for a President. Bin Laden is still alive and free, over seven years later, and has proven that you can indeed strike America a greivous blow and get away with it. Thank You, George W. Bush.



There are thousands of dead Al quaeda members that might disagree with you and bin laden isn't exactly living high on the hog. Obama will have his shot at him starting January. Let's see how he handles it.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 26, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> There are thousands of dead Al quaeda members that might disagree with you and bin laden isn't exactly living high on the hog. Obama will have his shot at him starting January. Let's see how he handles it.


yeah, and then there is KSM in gitmo


----------



## Old Rocks (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Sorry - this is way off base. The liberals have been supplying lawyers for the terrorists and condemning America for declaring war on terrorism. Liberalism has stood idly by criticizing America for going after these bastards.



My God, what a damned stupid thing to say. We just talked of war on terror. We never attemped it. The closest we came to it was when Clinton prosecuted the terrorists involved in the first WTC attack. As far as lawyers for terrorists are concerned, more and more it looks like all too many of those on that base in Cuba were not terrorists, just people in the wrong place at the wrong time. And, by our own laws, and accused person has a right to representation. Your automatic assumption of guilt because of accusation simply illustrates the fact that your grasp of Constitutional Law seems to be about the same as that of Bush.

This Liberal will forever damn George W. Bush for the fact that he let Bin Laden get away with the murder of 3000 Americans on American soil. Bin Laden should have been dead before 1-1-02. The fact that he wasn't should have been reason to remove Bush on 2Jan02 for Dereliction of Duty.


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> yeah, and then there is KSM in gitmo



Well we can keep an eye on Obama and learn how to handle islamic terrorism.
We'll have bin laden in jail within the week I'm sure.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

The Indian market has shut down and will not trade today. There is now over 100 people dead.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 26, 2008)

Old Rocks said:


> My God, what a damned stupid thing to say. We just talked of war on terror. We never attemped it. The closest we came to it was when Clinton prosecuted the terrorists involved in the first WTC attack. As far as lawyers for terrorists are concerned, more and more it looks like all too many of those on that base in Cuba were not terrorists, just people in the wrong place at the wrong time. And, by our own laws, and accused person has a right to representation. Your automatic assumption of guilt because of accusation simply illustrates the fact that your grasp of Constitutional Law seems to be about the same as that of Bush.
> 
> This Liberal will forever damn George W. Bush for the fact that he let Bin Laden get away with the murder of 3000 Americans on American soil. Bin Laden should have been dead before 1-1-02. The fact that he wasn't should have been reason to remove Bush on 2Jan02 for Dereliction of Duty.



Constitutional law applies to American citizens, not foreign terrorists. They have no rights and as far as I'm concerned, gitmo is the Ritz Carlton compared to what kind of treatment they deserve. They should be let loose into maximum security American prisons and THEN, THEN let these motherfuckers learn what REAL American justice is.


----------



## Chris (Nov 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Constitutional law applies to American citizens, not foreign terrorists. They have no rights and as far as I'm concerned, gitmo is the Ritz Carlton compared to what kind of treatment they deserve. They should be let loose into maximum security American prisons and THEN, THEN let these motherfuckers learn what REAL American justice is.



Half the people in Gitmo are probably innocent.

The U.S. government was paying $10,000 a head for "terrorist suspects" in Afganistan. Some of those people would turn in their own mother for 10 big ones.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 27, 2008)

Update: 125 people killed, over 300 wounded. There are currently multiple hostage situations ongoing, including 10-15 Israelis being held.

There is a report and this is just one report, that this terrorist group is directly linked to Pakistan. If this is true.... watch out. India will not tolerate this kind of shit any longer.


----------



## Old Rocks (Nov 27, 2008)

Of course they are linked to Pakistan, and funded by dollars from Saudi Arabia. Dollars that we and the rest of the world, including India, gave them for oil. Bush let Bin Laden live, and this only the down payment on that gift from our President to the terrorists.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 27, 2008)

I doubt that Pakistain had anything to do with it.

India has over 100 million Muslims in their country.

They wouldn't need help from anyone else to carry out the attacks.


----------



## Old Rocks (Nov 27, 2008)

I don't think the government of Pakistan had anything to do with it. However, Bin Laden and the Al Queda almost surely did. Kind of like blaming the whole of the South for the KKK.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 27, 2008)

I doubt that Bin Laden and Al Queda were involved.

Their time has passed.

Now groups inspired by Bin Laden and Al Queda have formed their own independent cells in their own countries.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 27, 2008)

A Jewish Center was one of the targets


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## KittenKoder (Nov 27, 2008)

Bit of a note: Terrorism is a strategy NOT a group of people. Those who use terrorism will never vanish completely, so long as people allow fear to rule them such as how organized religions teach, terrorism will always be around. Even the US has used terrorism tactics recently.


----------



## Neubarth (Nov 27, 2008)

Old Rocks said:


> Of course they are linked to Pakistan, and funded by dollars from Saudi Arabia. Dollars that we and the rest of the world, including India, gave them for oil. Bush let Bin Laden live, and this only the down payment on that gift from our President to the terrorists.



Though we don't know with certainty where the money for this operation came from, it is most likely Iran.  Iran has been funding terrorism regardless if it is a Sunni Faction or a Shitti Faction.  As long as it is Radical Islam.  All terrorism that is Islamic is directed at destabilization of the Western Economy. The Iranian Mullah leadership said over 20 years ago that destruction of the money system of the west is their goal, because that will bring the world wide chaos that will result in the rise of the Mahdi.


----------



## Gunny (Nov 27, 2008)

Chris said:


> Half the people in Gitmo are probably innocent.
> 
> The U.S. government was paying $10,000 a head for "terrorist suspects" in Afganistan. Some of those people would turn in their own mother for 10 big ones.



Probably.  According to you and those that think like you.  Yet how many threads did you post wherever you were crying about "Why didn't Bush do something to stop 9/11?"  

Because of people like YOU.  They aren't guilty until after they blow something up.  Had they been arrested at the airport PRIOR TO the attacks, the ACLU along with you playing Polly on its shoulder would be screaming foul loud enough to be heard on the Moon.


----------



## Gunny (Nov 27, 2008)

Old Rocks said:


> Of course they are linked to Pakistan, and funded by dollars from Saudi Arabia. Dollars that we and the rest of the world, including India, gave them for oil. Bush let Bin Laden live, and this only the down payment on that gift from our President to the terrorists.



Really?  When did Bush have an opportunity to kill bin Laden?

Now Clinton?  HE had an opportunity to take him.

Bin Laden doesn't give shit who's President, and he could give a shit less about our political infighting any further than he can use to his advantage.

When are you people going to wake up? We're all AMERICANS to them.


----------



## Gunny (Nov 27, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> I doubt that Pakistain had anything to do with it.
> 
> India has over 100 million Muslims in their country.
> 
> They wouldn't need help from anyone else to carry out the attacks.





Sunni Man said:


> I doubt that Bin Laden and Al Queda were involved.
> 
> Their time has passed.
> 
> Now groups inspired by Bin Laden and Al Queda have formed their own independent cells in their own countries.





Sunni Man said:


> A Jewish Center was one of the targets



You seriously need some therapy.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 27, 2008)

Gunny said:


> Probably.  According to you and those that think like you.  Yet how many threads did you post wherever you were crying about "Why didn't Bush do something to stop 9/11?"
> 
> Because of people like YOU.  They aren't guilty until after they blow something up.  Had they been arrested at the airport PRIOR TO the attacks, the ACLU along with you playing Polly on its shoulder would be screaming foul loud enough to be heard on the Moon.



Thank god for common sense reasoning. Why can't anyone else think like this?


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 27, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Why can't anyone else think like this?


Why are you bragging about being retarded???


----------



## Gunny (Nov 27, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Thank god for common sense reasoning. Why can't anyone else think like this?



Because people would have to abandon a system of misguided beliefs and a lack of actual education or knowledge of the subject.  They believe the individual rights of the criminal supercede the rights of their victims until AFTER the victim is dead.  THEN they want punishment.  

Lot of good that does the dead.


----------



## Neubarth (Nov 27, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> I doubt that Pakistain had anything to do with it.
> 
> India has over 100 million Muslims in their country.
> 
> They wouldn't need help from anyone else to carry out the attacks.



I think I remember reading that there are an estimated three hundred million Islamics in India.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 27, 2008)

Neubarth said:


> I think I remember reading that there are an estimated three hundred million Islamics in India.


The CIA World Factbook says that Muslims are 13.5% of India.

India's population it says is 1,147,995,904

You will have to do the math because my calculator is broke


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 27, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Thank god for common sense reasoning. Why can't anyone else think like this?


you voted for an supported people that DONT think like that
you have also dispised most of the people the DO think like that


maybe one day you will finally wake up


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 27, 2008)

Gunny said:


> Because people would have to abandon a system of misguided beliefs and a lack of actual education or knowledge of the subject.  They believe the individual rights of the criminal supercede the rights of their victims until AFTER the victim is dead.  THEN they want punishment.
> 
> Lot of good that does the dead.


somehow, these people seem to think that Bush should have done something to stop it before it happened when they fight his attempts NOW after it happened


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 27, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> The CIA World Factbook says that Muslims are 13.5% of India. India's population it says is 1,147,995,904.
> You will have to do the math because my calculator is broke


Hey Sunni Man I have a good idea for getting rid of all this strife between Indians and Muslims.
How about India breaks off part of it's territory and gives it to the Muslims? They obviously can't get along so perhaps if they had their own country, they could live as they want within their own borders and this violence would stop. What do you think?

Happy Thanksgiving by the way.


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## Sunni Man (Nov 27, 2008)

Mad Scientist said:


> Hey Sunni Man I have a good idea for getting rid of all this strife between Indians and Muslims.
> How about India breaks off part of it's territory and gives it to the Muslims? They obviously can't get along so perhaps if they had their own country, they could live as they want within their own borders and this violence would stop. What do you think?
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving by the way.


Happy Thanksgiving to you also!! 

Hundreds of millions of Muslim Indians and Hindu Indians get along just fine in the worlds largest democracy.

The people who did this are just a very small minority in the country.

I am sure the Indian Muslims are just as appalled at this act as is everyone else.


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## Chris (Nov 27, 2008)

A merchant ship that came from Saudi Arabia was involved in the attack as well as a fishing traweler that was hijacked on the high seas perhaps by terrorists from Pakistan.

Hijacked ship with satellite phone seized-India-The Times of India


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## WillowTree (Nov 27, 2008)

The whole fucking world has been in total chaotic turmoil from terrorists since 2001 then count backwards through all the clinton years, and somebody always pops up with "it's such a small minority" then I says then why don't the majority stomp their asses,, and then youse guys say "Cause we're scared" Bullcrap!


----------



## Old Rocks (Nov 27, 2008)

WillowTree said:


> The whole fucking world has been in total chaotic turmoil from terrorists since 2001 then count backwards through all the clinton years, and somebody always pops up with "it's such a small minority" then I says then why don't the majority stomp their asses,, and then youse guys say "Cause we're scared" Bullcrap!
> 
> Well, now that we will have a real President after 20Jan09, maybe there will be a bit of ass stomping that these miscreants deserve.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 27, 2008)

Old Rocks said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > The whole fucking world has been in total chaotic turmoil from terrorists since 2001 then count backwards through all the clinton years, and somebody always pops up with "it's such a small minority" then I says then why don't the majority stomp their asses,, and then youse guys say "Cause we're scared" Bullcrap!
> ...


----------



## xsited1 (Nov 27, 2008)

Old Rocks said:


> Well, now that we will have a real President after 20Jan09, maybe there will be a bit of ass stomping that these miscreants deserve.


----------



## Chris (Nov 27, 2008)

Once again terrorism is shown to be the minor threat it actually is. Months of planning and all the terrorists can do is kill a couple of hundred people in a country of one billion people. Now they have pissed off the whole of India. This is why the terrorists will never win because their numbers are tiny, and they will eventually piss off the entire world. The only way the terrorists win, is if we have a leader like George Bush who bankrupts the country chasing shadows in the desert.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 27, 2008)

Mad Scientist said:


> Hey Sunni Man I have a good idea for getting rid of all this strife between Indians and Muslims.
> How about India breaks off part of it's territory and gives it to the Muslims? They obviously can't get along so perhaps if they had their own country, they could live as they want within their own borders and this violence would stop. What do you think?
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving by the way.



They already did that. Haven't you heard of Pakistan and Bangladesh? How many more countries must give away part of their land so Muslims will live in peace with them? The time for appeasement is over. The time for action has come. We must eradicate islamic terrorism completely from the face of this planet. Wipe it out like the cancer that it is.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 27, 2008)

Chris said:


> Once again terrorism is shown to be the minor threat it actually is. Months of planning and all the terrorists can do is kill a couple of hundred people in a country of one billion people. Now they have pissed off the whole of India. This is why the terrorists will never win because their numbers are tiny, and they will eventually piss off the entire world. The only way the terrorists win, is if we have a leader like George Bush who bankrupts the country chasing shadows in the desert.



You sound like someone who's reasoning with himself when he finds out he has stage 1 cancer. It's small, it can only do a little harm. We should just leave it alone and it'll go away.

Then it starts spreading, emboldened by its victories. Soon its forces are in the millions, larger than armies in the richest of countries. Then, double digit percentages of Muslims will believe in terrorism.... and it'll spread to every single country in the world that borders a Muslim country. Oh wait, it already has. 

Oh and uh, only kill a couple hundred people? What if one of those people was a member of your family? Your dismissal of human life is not only disgusting but shocking since you consider yourself a liberal. ONE innocent life is ONE too many.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 27, 2008)

DavidS said:


> You sound like someone who's reasoning with himself when he finds out he has stage 1 cancer. It's small, it can only do a little harm. We should just leave it alone and it'll go away.
> 
> Then it starts spreading, emboldened by its victories. Soon its forces are in the millions, larger than armies in the richest of countries. Then, double digit percentages of Muslims will believe in terrorism.... and it'll spread to every single country in the world that borders a Muslim country. Oh wait, it already has.
> 
> Oh and uh, only kill a couple hundred people? What if one of those people was a member of your family? Your dismissal of human life is not only disgusting but shocking since you consider yourself a liberal. ONE innocent life is ONE too many.


which is exactly what was happening in the 90's
too bad you voted for someone that wants to go back to that very same standard


----------



## DavidS (Nov 27, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> which is exactly what was happening in the 90's
> too bad you voted for someone that wants to go back to that very same standard



Negotiating with terrorists is not the same as appeasing. If we can get them to lay down their arms, they are free to live whatever kind of life they wish to. There's not hurt in talking to them... I highly doubt, though, he will hesitate to use American force when necessary.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 27, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Negotiating with terrorists is not the same as appeasing. If we can get them to lay down their arms, they are free to live whatever kind of life they wish to. There's not hurt in talking to them... I highly doubt, though, he will hesitate to use American force when necessary.


India thought that as well
look how that turned out


----------



## DavidS (Nov 27, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> India thought that as well
> look how that turned out



India never negotiated with terrorist organizations.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 27, 2008)

DavidS said:


> India never negotiated with terrorist organizations.


meh, semantics


----------



## Chris (Nov 27, 2008)

DavidS said:


> You sound like someone who's reasoning with himself when he finds out he has stage 1 cancer. It's small, it can only do a little harm. We should just leave it alone and it'll go away.
> 
> Then it starts spreading, emboldened by its victories. Soon its forces are in the millions, larger than armies in the richest of countries. Then, double digit percentages of Muslims will believe in terrorism.... and it'll spread to every single country in the world that borders a Muslim country. Oh wait, it already has.
> 
> Oh and uh, only kill a couple hundred people? What if one of those people was a member of your family? Your dismissal of human life is not only disgusting but shocking since you consider yourself a liberal. ONE innocent life is ONE too many.



No, terrorism is a self defeating prophecy. They will lose now that we don't have a president who advances their mythology.

What if I have a family member who was killed by a falling coconut? Sorry, terrorism is a minor threat.


----------



## Gunny (Nov 27, 2008)

Chris said:


> No, terrorism is a self defeating prophecy. They will lose now that we don't have a president who advances their mythology.
> 
> What if I have a family member who was killed by a falling coconut? Sorry, terrorism is a minor threat.



Dude, you really should find another topic. This one's NOT yours.  Terrorism has been around since the dawn of time and it will be with us to the end.  It does not defeat itself.  In cases like Fatah and the PLO, time only gives it legitimacy because people like you want to feel sorry for a bunch of murdering scumbags.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 27, 2008)

Gunny said:


> Dude, you really should find another topic. This one's NOT yours.  Terrorism has been around since the dawn of time and it will be with us to the end.  It does not defeat itself.  In cases like Fatah and the PLO, time only gives it legitimacy because people like you want to feel sorry for a bunch of murdering scumbags.


um, what topic IS his, he gets PWND on everything he posts


----------



## Chris (Nov 27, 2008)

Gunny said:


> Dude, you really should find another topic. This one's NOT yours.  Terrorism has been around since the dawn of time and it will be with us to the end.  It does not defeat itself.  In cases like Fatah and the PLO, time only gives it legitimacy because people like you want to feel sorry for a bunch of murdering scumbags.



Exactly my point.

What happened to the Puerto Rican terrorists that attacked the Congress in the 1950s? Where are they now?

What happened to the Red Brigade in Italy? Where are they now? 

These terrorist groups come and go, but they cannot win.

Except for the terrorists that founded Israel.


----------



## Gunny (Nov 27, 2008)

Chris said:


> Exactly my point.
> 
> What happened to the Puerto Rican terrorists that attacked the Congress in the 1950s? Where are they now?
> 
> ...



What's your point?  Terrorism exists so let's ignore them and wait until they die?  That's not a point.  That's stupidity.

That's like saying well, criminals always die so lets quit arresting them.

Terrorist groups can't win?  You mean like British rebels in the late 1700s in Britain's US colonies?  Or Iran in 1979?  Hell, numbnuts like you gave Yassir Arafat, the grandaddy of ME terrorists, the Nobel Peace prize.  Hamas, a terrorist organization is currently the democratically elected government of Palestine.

Sell your "stuff" down the road, huh?  A good terrorist has a little blue hole in his forehead and half the back of his skull missing.


----------



## Chris (Nov 28, 2008)

Gunny said:


> What's your point?  Terrorism exists so let's ignore them and wait until they die?  That's not a point.  That's stupidity.
> 
> That's like saying well, criminals always die so lets quit arresting them.
> 
> ...



I love how you project your own ideas on to other people. 

My point is that if we play our cards right, these idiots will piss off the world, and we will have plenty of help fighting them. They can't win because they have no constituency. They are nihilists. They aren't fighting for a particular country like the people you mentioned.


----------



## Lycurgus (Nov 28, 2008)

Gunny said:


> What's your point?  Terrorism exists so let's ignore them and wait until they die?  That's not a point.  That's stupidity.
> 
> That's like saying well, criminals always die so lets quit arresting them.
> 
> ...





Absolutely!

Being passive to any degree will not gain you one thing with these demented killers. They live by force, thus they only understand force. Further, under estimating their capabilities both militarily and socially is very dangerous. Further, it is the type of issue where we must be proactive, selfish and preemptive. This nation is too big, too diverse and too open to rely solely on defensive and preventive measures.


----------



## Gunny (Nov 28, 2008)

Chris said:


> I love how you project your own ideas on to other people.
> 
> My point is that if we play our cards right, these idiots will piss off the world, and we will have plenty of help fighting them. They can't win because they have no constituency. They are nihilists. They aren't fighting for a particular country like the people you mentioned.



I projected nothing.  I compared your lameass idea with an equally lame one.  Attempted deflection on your part DENIED.

I just showed you where you were dead-ass wrong and still you persist with your nonsense.

How many people have to die before you find it suitable to go after these scumbags?  You are a prime example of why defying natural selection is a self-defeating idea.


----------



## Lycurgus (Nov 28, 2008)

Chris,

I understand your thoughts about them not having a country to fight for, but, I don't feel that makes them any less dangerous. 

In fact, because they use ideology and the resentment for the west as their flag, it enables them to find troops in nearly every nation on the planet and set up operations, hence making them more dangerous, as they become global and not simply regional. 

Just my opinion.


----------



## Chris (Nov 28, 2008)

Gunny said:


> I projected nothing.  I compared your lameass idea with an equally lame one.  Attempted deflection on your part DENIED.
> 
> I just showed you where you were dead-ass wrong and still you persist with your nonsense.
> 
> How many people have to die before you find it suitable to go after these scumbags?  You are a prime example of why defying natural selection is a self-defeating idea.



1,000,000 Americans have been killed by guns since 1960. 
Guns are a threat.

500,000 Americans die each year from cancer.
Cancer is a threat.

0 people in America have been killed by terrorists since 9/11.

Terrorism is a minor threat.

Most of the terrorists come from Saudi Arabia. Why don't we go after them?


----------



## Lycurgus (Nov 28, 2008)

Chris said:


> 1,000,000 Americans have been killed by guns since 1960.
> Guns are a threat.
> 
> 500,000 Americans die each year from cancer.
> ...




Chris, with all due respect, a American is still a American no matter what part of this planet they die on. Further, what about all of the other lives taken across the globe in the hopes of just killing a few American's?

I don't expect to change your position, but, I would like to hopefully find the shared interest.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 28, 2008)

Lycurgus said:


> Chris, with all due respect, a American is still a American no matter what part of this planet they die on. Further, what about all of the other lives taken across the globe in the hopes of just killing a few American's?
> 
> I don't expect to change your position, but, I would like to hopefully find the shared interest.


good luck


----------



## Chris (Nov 28, 2008)

Lycurgus said:


> Chris, with all due respect, a American is still a American no matter what part of this planet they die on. Further, what about all of the other lives taken across the globe in the hopes of just killing a few American's?
> 
> I don't expect to change your position, but, I would like to hopefully find the shared interest.



The shared interest is how to take the mythology of extremist Islam away from the madrasahs. 

Here's some background from Time Magazine...

The disembodied voice was chilling in its rage. A gunman, holed up in Mumbai's Oberoi Trident hotel where some 40 people had been taken hostage, told an Indian news channel that the attacks were revenge for the persecution of Muslims in India. "We love this as our country but when our mothers and sisters were being killed, where was everybody?" he asked via telephone. No answer came. But then he probably wasn't expecting one. 

The roots of Muslim rage run deep in India, nourished by a long-held sense of injustice over what many Indian Muslims believe is institutionalized discrimination against the country's largest minority group. The disparities between Muslims, which make up 13.4% of the population, and India's Hindu population, which hovers around 80%, are striking. There are exceptions, of course, but generally speaking Muslim Indians have shorter life spans, worse health, lower literacy levels, and lower-paying jobs. Add to that toxic brew the lingering resentment over 2002's anti-Muslim riots in the state of Gujarat. The riots, instigated by Hindu nationalists, killed some 2000 people, most of them Muslim. To this day, few of the perpetrators have been convicted.

Behind the Mumbai Massacre: India's Muslims in Crisis - TIME


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## Lycurgus (Nov 28, 2008)

Well Chris, I cannot disagree with that, but, don't you feel that maybe that responsibility falls more to those of that faith, as opposed to a nation simply trying to protect it's citizens? Now please understand, I'm not saying that we can't add to that effort were and as possible, but, It is not our responsibility to regulate or bring forth change within that culture and faith. You see, I don't claim to understand this situation better than the next person, but, the PanAM downing in Scotland was personal for me. The Greek TWA flight hijacking was personal for me, the Marine bombing in Beirut was very personal for me and 9/11, well that is simply engraved into my heart and soul. So as I understand and truly respect the need to change the values from within these radical groups and fringe groups, I also understand the need not only to protect best as possible against them, but, the ultimate need to eliminate them as much as possible, hence thinning the heard and speaking to a level they truly understand. Hopefully from within their true cultural and religious leaders can make some progress in positive changes.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 28, 2008)

Chris said:


> No, terrorism is a self defeating prophecy. They will lose now that we don't have a president who advances their mythology.
> 
> What if I have a family member who was killed by a falling coconut? Sorry, terrorism is a minor threat.



9/11 not only cost New York City 2500 lives, but a large percentage of our firefighters and a few dozen police officers. In addition, it plummeted our economy into a mini-depression for a year and cost hundreds of billions of dollars. The Freedom Tower, which is replacing the Twin Towers, isn't even halfway built yet. 

What's going on in India right now, is captivating 1 billion Indians and billions of other people. 

Terrorism killed thousands of US troops in Iraq. 

Terrorism is NOT a minor threat.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 28, 2008)

Chris said:


> Exactly my point.
> 
> What happened to the Puerto Rican terrorists that attacked the Congress in the 1950s? Where are they now?
> 
> ...



Wow... I always knew you were stupid, but I didn't know you were stupid enough to side with Sunni. You're a fucking moron.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 28, 2008)

Update: The battle STILL rages on, nearly 2 and a half days later. 143 dead.

Indian forces take control of seized hotel - South and Central Asia- msnbc.com


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## Sunni Man (Nov 28, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Terrorism killed thousands of US troops in Iraq.


In reality, it was Bush who killed thousand of US troops by sending them to a useless war in Iraq


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 28, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Wow... I always knew you were stupid, but I didn't know you were stupid enough to side with Sunni. You're a fucking moron.


He's not stupid or siding with me. He just sees the truth and speaks out about it.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 28, 2008)

Report: Two Jewish members killed in the Chabbad House in India and at least two Americans have been killed.

More Jews and more Americans killed by Islamic terrorists. This is disgusting.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 28, 2008)

It is sad that Americans have been killed in this incident


----------



## editec (Nov 28, 2008)

Tech_Esq said:


> And aside from being appalled what do they DO about it? Do they speak out as Muslims against this activity? Because that is what is needed. They have to take their religion back from these idiots. If they decide to do nothing, they shouldn't be surprised when people believe they agree with the terrorists.


 
Pakistan just had an election.

97.5% of the electorate voted AGAINST radical Islamic candidates.

I see that people on this board see the headlines when something like this mess happens and assume that those morons represent the majority view of Islam.

They most definitely do NOT.

This is India's problem and no they won't be needing Marines in India to deal with it, thank you very much.

Oh and incidently?

There has been an enormous number of followers of Islam in India for well over a thousand years.

India is their country just as much as its a nation of Hindus.

Yes, Pakistan was created in oder to accomodate the the Islamic majority in that region, but that does not mean that every Islamic Indian was expected to move out of India.

I expect that the majority of Indian Moslems are as shocked and angry about that terrorist attack as the Indian Hinus were.

Maybe you folks haven't yet noticed this but those so called Islamic terrorists are killing far more Moslems than Christians or Hindus.

They kill 3,000 Pakjistanis a year, for example.

That's right, every year Pakistan has another 9-11 and yet STILL most of you are talking out your asses claiming that you KNOW what the majority of Moslems want.

_Ethnocentic Ignoramouses_


----------



## Gunny (Nov 28, 2008)

Chris said:


> 1,000,000 Americans have been killed by guns since 1960.
> Guns are a threat.
> 
> 500,000 Americans die each year from cancer.
> ...



More deflection?  Your red herrings are irrelelvant.

More people die in auto accidents than are kille dby guns or cancer.  Your auto is a threat.  Start walking.

You're the type of ostrich that won't believe a damned thing that goes against your delusional beliefs until someone has an AK-47 pressing against your nose.

Nobody deserves to die because you are a fool.


----------



## Gunny (Nov 28, 2008)

Lycurgus said:


> Chris, with all due respect, a American is still a American no matter what part of this planet they die on. Further, what about all of the other lives taken across the globe in the hopes of just killing a few American's?
> 
> I don't expect to change your position, but, I would like to hopefully find the shared interest.



There's no "shared interest" with Chris.  He's a delusional fool that doesn't care how many people are murdered for his backwards-assed thinking.


----------



## Gunny (Nov 28, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> In reality, it was Bush who killed thousand of US troops by sending them to a useless war in Iraq





Sunni Man said:


> He's not stupid or siding with me. He just sees the truth and speaks out about it.



No, really, he's stupid.  Only YOU make him look somewhat smart.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 28, 2008)

I see that people on this board see the headlines when something like this mess happens and assume that those morons represent the majority view of Islam.

They most definitely do NOT




There it is again.. That statement.. I'll beleive that when the majoirity of Islam stands up and does something about this *minoirity*. and not one minutes sooner.


----------



## Gunny (Nov 28, 2008)

editec said:


> Pakistan just had an election.
> 
> 97.5% of the electorate voted AGAINST radical Islamic candidates.
> 
> ...



How is stating terrorism is a threat saying terrorists represent the majority of Muslims?

That would be like saying the radical rightwing religious fanatics represent ALL Christians.  And we know THAT doesn't happen on this board.


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## Sunni Man (Nov 28, 2008)

Lycurgus said:


> Chris, with all due respect, a American is still a American no matter what part of this planet they die on.


It is sad to hear about any American being killed anywhere in the world.

But sometimes it is their own fault because they are in a place they shouldn't have been.


----------



## Chris (Nov 28, 2008)

Lycurgus said:


> Well Chris, I cannot disagree with that, but, don't you feel that maybe that responsibility falls more to those of that faith, as opposed to a nation simply trying to protect it's citizens? Now please understand, I'm not saying that we can't add to that effort were and as possible, but, It is not our responsibility to regulate or bring forth change within that culture and faith. You see, I don't claim to understand this situation better than the next person, but, the PanAM downing in Scotland was personal for me. The Greek TWA flight hijacking was personal for me, the Marine bombing in Beirut was very personal for me and 9/11, well that is simply engraved into my heart and soul. So as I understand and truly respect the need to change the values from within these radical groups and fringe groups, I also understand the need not only to protect best as possible against them, but, the ultimate need to eliminate them as much as possible, hence thinning the heard and speaking to a level they truly understand. Hopefully from within their true cultural and religious leaders can make some progress in positive changes.



Absolutely.

The madrashahs where this hate is taught are the problem. The problem has been exaserbated by Bush's buffoonery. He is their best recruiter.

Terrorism has been around forever and will continue, but it is a minor problem compared to the major ones we face. The Bush administration ignored our most important security problem, which is our dependence on foreign oil. Meanwhile Bush spent $700 billion dollars chasing shadows in Iraq. If we had spent that $700 billion dollars on American Energy Independence, we would have solved the problem, and we would not be giving $700 billion dollars a year to the terrorist Saudis.

Bin Laden said his goal was to "bankrupt America." Bush helped him accomplish his goal.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED


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## Lycurgus (Nov 28, 2008)

Chris said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> The madrashahs where this hate is taught are the problem. The problem has been exaserbated by Bush's buffoonery. He is their best recruiter.
> 
> ...





Chris .............. This is one issue where party politics doesn't cut it. I understand your complaints with Bush and I may share some of them, but, the issue of terrorism predates GW by a very long time. Further, Bill Clinton holds his share of blame as well, in the more recent years. IMO there is enough room to push blame and be factual all over the place. Now, that could be a good debate, but, in the end it is counter productive, because you are only left with a cluster F of a debate. No healthy exchange of ideas. 

Are there things we can do to help the culture change from within? Sure and we should do those things. But, IMO that no way means that we can afford to be weak in hunting them down and traveling the globe with the help of other nations to disrupt their plans and strike them whenever possible. 

As for our financial problems, I simply cannot give Osama that much credit. If we were taking care of things properly at home, on both sides of the isle, then paying for the hunt of Osama and other terrorists could be handled without creating economic hardship. Just my opinion.


----------



## KittenKoder (Nov 28, 2008)

Gunny said:


> How is stating terrorism is a threat saying terrorists represent the majority of Muslims?
> 
> That would be like saying the radical rightwing religious fanatics represent ALL Christians.  And we know THAT doesn't happen on this board.


----------



## Lycurgus (Nov 28, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> It is sad to hear about any American being killed anywhere in the world.
> 
> But sometimes it is their own fault because they are in a place they shouldn't have been.





WHAT?

Someplace they shouldn't be?

Are you serious?

How the hell does visiting or working in India in any fashion place any blame on the American's killed or anyone else?

I give everyone the benefit of doubt, but, I'm sorry this claim is outrageous!

Not only that, but, it reeks of a anti American mind set.


----------



## KittenKoder (Nov 28, 2008)

Lycurgus said:


> WHAT?
> 
> Someplace they shouldn't be?
> 
> ...



You are surprised at Sunni's statement? He doesn't even believe there are American terrorists.


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## editec (Nov 28, 2008)

Sunni is a complete fraud.

I doubt he's a Moslem to be honest.


----------



## Chris (Nov 28, 2008)

Lycurgus said:


> Chris .............. This is one issue where party politics doesn't cut it. I understand your complaints with Bush and I may share some of them, but, the issue of terrorism predates GW by a very long time. Further, Bill Clinton holds his share of blame as well, in the more recent years. IMO there is enough room to push blame and be factual all over the place. Now, that could be a good debate, but, in the end it is counter productive, because you are only left with a cluster F of a debate. No healthy exchange of ideas.
> 
> Are there things we can do to help the culture change from within? Sure and we should do those things. But, IMO that no way means that we can afford to be weak in hunting them down and traveling the globe with the help of other nations to disrupt their plans and strike them whenever possible.
> 
> As for our financial problems, I simply cannot give Osama that much credit. If we were taking care of things properly at home, on both sides of the isle, then paying for the hunt of Osama and other terrorists could be handled without creating economic hardship. Just my opinion.



The war on terror is a political war, not a military one. It cannot be solved militarily. The terrorists only win if we overreact. Which is exactly what we have been doing.

If we want to win the war on terror, we need to develop American Energy Independence, and develop a strategy of fighting terror with all the nations of the world. This is a worldwide problem, not an American one.


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## KittenKoder (Nov 28, 2008)

editec said:


> Sunni is a complete fraud.
> 
> I doubt he's a Moslem to be honest.



I doubt he's a he.


----------



## Lycurgus (Nov 28, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> You are surprised at Sunni's statement? He doesn't even believe there are American terrorists.



Well Kitten, you have over 1400 posts on this forum. I have only been here a few days. So I'm sorry I don't have the insight you do. I will strive to do better. But in reality I am not surprised by anyone's opinion, I merely respond to them based on my opinions.


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## Sunni Man (Nov 28, 2008)

Lycurgus said:


> WHAT?
> 
> Someplace they shouldn't be?
> 
> ...


As an American citizen I have the right to walk thru the center of Harlem or South side of Chicago at 3 AM in the morning.

I am a white man and would be walking thru the hood in the middle of the night..

If I get murdered, then who's fault is it?


Is what I am saying anti-american or just reality?


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## Lycurgus (Nov 28, 2008)

Chris said:


> The war on terror is a political war, not a military one. It cannot be solved militarily. The terrorists only win if we overreact. Which is exactly what we have been doing.
> 
> If we want to win the war on terror, we need to develop American Energy Independence, and develop a strategy of fighting terror with all the nations of the world. This is a worldwide problem, not an American one.





Chris, between the years of 1993 - 2001 the mind set you just shared is exactly what took place and look what it brought to harvest!

Osama was permitted the time and freedom to build the financial backing, planning and infrastructure to do 9/11. 

Saddam was let off the hook for every legal agreement he signed, hence that opened the door for Bush to do what he felt was best. 

India and Pakistan were permitted to become nuclear powers, while Afghanistan was left to become increasingly unstable and a breeding ground for the worse terrorism home in the history of modern earth. 

I could go on, but, that explains my position. As much as I agree that political and social work needs to be done on the problem, my real life experience also tells me if a person simply cannot understand, grasp or respect your approach, then you have to be able to alter it to a level where they can get the message. 

The United States and other nations need to be willing to seek these groups out and take them out. Talk and political and cultural work can help, but, in the end, it will never stop groups like this, they simply don't respect it enough. So I do not totally disagree, but, without force the other efforts will fail and very possibly, without the other efforts, pure force would fail as well.


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## Lycurgus (Nov 28, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> As an American citizen I have the right to walk thru the center of Harlem or South side of Chicago at 3 AM in the morning.
> 
> I am a white man and would be walking thru the hood in the middle of the night..
> 
> ...




Well that is a nice try at an analogy, but the fact is, whoever harmed you would be at fault. To excuse any of the blame only enables and empowers those who wish to harm others. Further and speaking of being realistic, are you really comparing apples to apples here? I mean the Twin Towers didn't exactly sit in the hood, now did they? The TWA hijacking didn't take place in the hood. The PanAM downing didn't take place in the hood. And on and on and on.


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## Sunni Man (Nov 28, 2008)

Lycurgus said:


> Well that is a nice try at an analogy, but the fact is, whoever harmed you would be at fault. To excuse any of the blame only enables and empowers those who wish to harm others. Further and speaking of being realistic, are you really comparing apples to apples here? I mean the Twin Towers didn't exactly sit in the hood, now did they? The TWA hijacking didn't take place in the hood. The PanAM downing didn't take place in the hood. And on and on and on.


How about staying on topic.

I was talking about Americans being in other countries and getting harmed.

They went there by their own free will.

If something happens it's their fault.


----------



## Lycurgus (Nov 28, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> How about staying on topic.
> 
> I was talking about Americans being in other countries and getting harmed.
> 
> ...




I wasn't staying on topic?

LOL ........... Again, nice try. You cannot support your position, so you want to try and portray me as not staying on topic. Stop the pissy word games please. I was on topic and responding to your words.

However, you just made it easy for me ....................

*"If something happens it's their fault."*


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## Lycurgus (Nov 28, 2008)

Oh and by the way bright guy, the PanAM downing and the TWA hijacking did take place in other countries! 

Amazing. 

Nothing sickens me more than to see a US citizen find ways to blame innocent American's for the sick acts of these pigs! 

Go tell a woman who got raped that she asked for it, you idiot. There is no difference.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 28, 2008)

Lycurgus said:


> Go tell a woman who got raped that she asked for it, you idiot. There is no difference.


If she is at a bar drunk and dressed half naked. 

And then leaves with a strange man she doesn't know.

Yes, it is her fault if she gets raped.


----------



## Lycurgus (Nov 28, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> If she is at a bar drunk and dressed half naked.
> 
> And then leaves with a strange man she doesn't know.
> 
> Yes, it is her fault if she gets raped.




Well you have wore me down to a one word response. 

You win!


----------



## Chris (Nov 28, 2008)

Lycurgus said:


> Chris, between the years of 1993 - 2001 the mind set you just shared is exactly what took place and look what it brought to harvest!
> 
> Osama was permitted the time and freedom to build the financial backing, planning and infrastructure to do 9/11.
> 
> ...



I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying. Go after these groups absolutely. But this is not what Bush did. He occupied Iraq when the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. We have to play this game smarter to win.


----------



## Annie (Nov 28, 2008)

Chris said:


> I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying. Go after these groups absolutely. But this is not what Bush did. He occupied Iraq when the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. We have to play this game smarter to win.



So Chris, is it a global or local problem? Do you think the problems in India were caused from within or without? Because of two state or in spite of two state? It appears there was a British connection with some of the terrorists caught, should India attack Britain?


----------



## DavidS (Nov 28, 2008)

I just learned that a Chabad Rabbi, one who lived mere blocks from me, was killed in this. The Chabad's headquarters are right here in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. This is a sad day for Judaism.


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## WillowTree (Nov 28, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> How about staying on topic.
> 
> I was talking about Americans being in other countries and getting harmed.
> 
> ...






I have to say, you are showing ignorance here if you believe what you wrote.


----------



## jillian (Nov 28, 2008)

Lycurgus said:


> Go tell a woman who got raped that she asked for it, you idiot. There is no difference.



Yeah, but he believes that retarded garbage, too.


----------



## Lycurgus (Nov 28, 2008)

Chris said:


> I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying. Go after these groups absolutely. But this is not what Bush did. He occupied Iraq when the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. We have to play this game smarter to win.






Yes Chris, OK I understand now where your complaint is. I can't argue the point between Iraq and how the Iraq war has taken resources away from the fight on terror. In regard to the Saudi's, as it is true people were from there originally, they did not plot, hide out or base their terror actions from there. I have my share of complaints with our relationship with the Saudi's, but I honestly don't feel that the Saudi's want to be connected to these groups where it would place them in a position of liability.


----------



## Annie (Nov 28, 2008)

Lycurgus said:


> Yes Chris, OK I understand now where your complaint is. I can't argue the point between Iraq and how the Iraq war has taken resources away from the fight on terror. In regard to the Saudi's, as it is true people were from there originally, they did not plot, hide out or base their terror actions from there. I have my share of complaints with our relationship with the Saudi's, but I honestly don't feel that the Saudi's want to be connected to these groups where it would place them in a position of liability.



Indeed it can be said that bin Laden was much more against SA than the US. Those hijackers bought into his vision of Islam, as he bought into the Egyptian version.


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## Lycurgus (Nov 28, 2008)

jillian said:


> Yeah, but he believes that retarded garbage, too.




Yep he sure does. Amazing, truly amazing. I have a hard time with such ignorance.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 28, 2008)

I think Sunni needs to be banned.


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## DavidS (Nov 28, 2008)

CSM said:


> The US doesn't have the resources to attack every Muslim nation on the planet that may or may not have terrorists within their borders; it is also doubtful that the rest of the world would standby while the US carried out such attacks and the US citizenry would not stand for it either.



I've been searching for this post. I'm glad I found it again.

Under what scenario WOULD the US citizenry tolerate anihilation of Islamic terrorism? How many more Americans have to die in order for this to happen? Should a newly formed terrorist organization detonate a nuclear bomb on US soil and have hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Americans killed in this to tolerate such a thing? Why don't we act now to prevent this loss of life? We waited until 9/11 to upgrade our security and intelligence services, we waitied for 3000 people to lose their lives to give the excuse to do something. Yet when major banks are on the verge of failing, we pump trillions of dollars into the US economy BEFORE they fail. Are we only pre-emptive when it comes to money? Don't lives count more than money? If not, then we deserve what's coming to us. Because it is more than likely that terrorists DO have a nuclear or radiological weapon and it is more than likely that they are planning to use it on Americans on American soil. Every minute that passes brings us closer to that day and here we are, stuffed from our Thanksgiving feast, watching as over 150 innocent civilians are slaughtered like animals, pontificating as to what shouldn't be done and how it's immoral for us to go in and wipe a group of people out just because they hold different views than we do. We're like spectators in the ancient Roman Empire, watching as heros die in the Collleseum. We laugh, we stare, we watch as humans die day in and day out and we don't lift a finger to help them. Just wait, my friends, just wait until the terrorists become more than nuisience, just wait until they kill your friends and until they kill your family and I'll watch you scream for bloody revenge and then I'll remind you all how you sat here and did NOTHING while the terrorists were planned the deaths of your loved ones. If anyone here thinks that Islamic terrorism is just a flash in the pan, just a minor inconvenience, just watch how many terrorists will be inspired by these people who slaughtered innocent American, Israeli, British and Indian lives. 

How many bombs must go off on our subways, how many jets must be hijacked, how many lives must be lost before we do something to eliminate these bastards once and for all? How many??


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 28, 2008)

DavidS said:


> I've been searching for this post. I'm glad I found it again.
> 
> Under what scenario WOULD the US citizenry tolerate anihilation of Islamic terrorism? *How many more Americans have to die in order for this to happen? Should a newly formed terrorist organization detonate a nuclear bomb on US soil and have hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Americans killed in this to tolerate such a thing?* Why don't we act now to prevent this loss of life? We waited until 9/11 to upgrade our security and intelligence services, we waitied for 3000 people to lose their lives to give the excuse to do something. Yet when major banks are on the verge of failing, we pump trillions of dollars into the US economy BEFORE they fail. Are we only pre-emptive when it comes to money? Don't lives count more than money? If not, then we deserve what's coming to us. Because it is more than likely that terrorists DO have a nuclear or radiological weapon and it is more than likely that they are planning to use it on Americans on American soil. Every minute that passes brings us closer to that day and here we are, stuffed from our Thanksgiving feast, watching as over 150 innocent civilians are slaughtered like animals, pontificating as to what shouldn't be done and how it's immoral for us to go in and wipe a group of people out just because they hold different views than we do. We're like spectators in the ancient Roman Empire, watching as heros die in the Collleseum. We laugh, we stare, we watch as humans die day in and day out and we don't lift a finger to help them. Just wait, my friends, just wait until the terrorists become more than nuisience, just wait until they kill your friends and until they kill your family and I'll watch you scream for bloody revenge and then I'll remind you all how you sat here and did NOTHING while the terrorists were planned the deaths of your loved ones. If anyone here thinks that Islamic terrorism is just a flash in the pan, just a minor inconvenience, just watch how many terrorists will be inspired by these people who slaughtered innocent American, Israeli, British and Indian lives.
> 
> How many bombs must go off on our subways, how many jets must be hijacked, how many lives must be lost before we do something to eliminate these bastards once and for all? How many??






FCOL David.. Bush started the war on terrorism on 9-11-2001. Nobody backed him up except Tony Blair and a few others. Certainly not the UN which has since evolved into a terrorist entity. Get over it. The Anit-war left is willing to sacrifice your life, and mine and all of our familes. They don't have the balls or the will to stand and fight. Who did you vote for?


----------



## Lycurgus (Nov 28, 2008)

WillowTree said:


> FCOL David.. Bush started the war on terrorism on 9-11-2001. Nobody backed him up except Tony Blair and a few others. Certainly not the UN which has since evolved into a terrorist entity. Get over it. The Anit-war left is willing to sacrifice your life, and mine and all of our familes. They don't have the balls or the will to stand and fight. Who did you vote for?





Think back to what transpired in the gut of this nation after Pearl Harbor was attacked. Then look at what took place after 9/11. 

Then realize how true the words of WillowTree are! 

My son and I were just speaking about this not less that 15 minutes ago. Has this nation lost it's desire to protect it's self. My son is 11 years old and most likely someday he will have to defend this nation. He has pretty much already chosen his passion in life, as he is a active member of the United States Navy Sea Cadet program. He loves history and he loves hanging out with old vets, his grand father in particular as the war in Europe and the war in the Pacific are his passions. Just from watching the news, reading the Internet, speaking with Vet's and reading various publications, he sees the difference in the soul of this nation. 

Frankly as a father I find it hard at times to answer some of his questions. I am always truthful and sadly some of those answers don't hold much hope.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 28, 2008)

DavidS said:


> I think Sunni needs to be banned.


That's typical of a Zionist like you DavidS.

You want Freedom of Speech only if the person agrees with you.


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## DavidS (Nov 28, 2008)

WillowTree said:


> FCOL David.. Bush started the war on terrorism on 9-11-2001. Nobody backed him up except Tony Blair and a few others. Certainly not the UN which has since evolved into a terrorist entity. Get over it. The Anit-war left is willing to sacrifice your life, and mine and all of our familes. They don't have the balls or the will to stand and fight. Who did you vote for?



I voted for the man whose judgment I trusted the most, not some erratic, crazy old guy who couldn't stay on message.


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## Sunni Man (Nov 28, 2008)

DavidS said:


> I just learned that a Chabad Rabbi, one who lived mere blocks from me, was killed in this. The Chabad's headquarters are right here in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. This is a sad day for Judaism.


Sorry to hear about the Rabbi getting killed.

I have known several and they were very good people.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 28, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> That's typical of a Zionist like you DavidS.
> 
> You want Freedom of Speech only if the person agrees with you.



Zionism has to do with the right of Jews to live in Israel. It has nothing to do with who is allowed on internet forums you idiot.

Many people here disagree with me and will continue to disagree with me. In fact, I haven't found one person on this forum who agree with me on everything. You, on the other hand, provide nothing to this forum. You pretend to be a Muslim and antagonize people to hate you. I'm willing to bet your mother is still alive and you live at home. You're a troll.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 28, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Many people here disagree with me and will continue to disagree with me. In fact, I haven't found one person on this forum who agree with me on everything. You, on the other hand, provide nothing to this forum. You pretend to be a Muslim and antagonize people to hate you. I'm willing to bet your mother is still alive and you live at home. You're a troll.



You would lose your money


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## jillian (Nov 28, 2008)

Lycurgus said:


> Think back to what transpired in the gut of this nation after Pearl Harbor was attacked. Then look at what took place after 9/11.
> 
> Then realize how true the words of WillowTree are!
> 
> ...



Much luck to your son. I hope he stays safe.

There is a difference between pearl harbor and 9/11 in that after pearl harbor, we attacked the people who attacked us and their allies. After 9/11, we attacked a wholly unrelated country. We were attacked by saudi nationals, but not by the saudi government, however. This is something akin to us having attacked Mexico after being attacked by Japan...kind of pointless.

which leads to the question what is the appropriate means of dealing with terror?

1. intelligence...but not illegally collected intelligence becuase there was never any reason to collect the intel illegally;

2. targeted strikes on terrorists like the Israeli's do when necessary in our OWN country, and partnership with other nations in terms of bringing terrorist plots to light and responding appropriately to threats.

Mostly, you cannot wage a war on a tactic... which is why the whole concept of "war on terror"is fallacious.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 28, 2008)

DavidS said:


> I voted for the man whose judgment I trusted the most, not some erratic, crazy old guy who couldn't stay on message.




well, sadly what you will get is someone who confronts evil "with humility" the terrorists will kick his azz.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 28, 2008)

DavidS said:


> You, on the other hand, provide nothing to this forum. You pretend to be a Muslim and antagonize people to hate



I get pos reps from people all of the time DavidS.

Many from people who like me putting you in your place.

There are alot more people on this forum who hate you. Than there are who dislike me


----------



## DavidS (Nov 28, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> I get pos reps from people all of the time DavidS.
> 
> Many from people who like me putting you in your place.
> 
> There are alot more people on this forum who hate you. Than there are who dislike me



Look at your rep power. I haven't seen that much red since Enron.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 28, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Look at your rep power. I haven't seen that much red since Enron.


LOL

enron didnt have that much red
LOL


----------



## ABikerSailor (Nov 28, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> I get pos reps from people all of the time DavidS.
> 
> Many from people who like me putting you in your place.
> 
> There are alot more people on this forum who hate you. Than there are who dislike me



Really Sucking Mouse?  Your rep count would beg to differ with that.  Almost 2,000 posts and still at zero rep.  

And....for your edification, it's not so much that they like watching you "put someone in their place", they enjoy when Gunny and myself come to pound on your small, silly ego.  

As far as people disliking you?  No douchebag, you're not paranoid.....they truly do hate you.

By the way, your statement farther up the thread stating that it's the persons fault for getting killed because they were in a foreign country?  Well, hopefully when you go to Mecca like you say you're going to, YOU won't become a hostage and have yourself shot, or get your head cut off.  But, chances are, as stupid as you show yourself to be on this board about things outside the US., you're probably gonna end up dead.  But then again, your crayon scribblings won't be here any more.  Win win as far as I'm concerned.

And.....for the lady that gets raped?  What about the personal responsibility of the male involved?  Takes two to tango dirtbag.  

But.....then again.....you claim to be a Muslim, and that's kinda how that theology works.  Women are second rate citizens, an the guys can do whatever the fuck they want.  

Figures.......now I know why you're such a window licker on the short bus.


----------



## random3434 (Nov 28, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Look at your rep power. I haven't seen that much red since Enron.



Click on the red squares to see what it says.


Good Advice imo!


----------



## DavidS (Nov 28, 2008)

Echo Zulu said:


> Click on the red squares to see what it says.
> 
> 
> Good Advice imo!



Sunni Man should be ignored at all costs! 

DavidS could be city mayor.

Jillian could start her own religion.

I aspire to be Jillian!


----------



## Red Dawn (Nov 28, 2008)

WillowTree said:


> FCOL David..
> 
> Bush started the war on terrorism on 9-11-2001.
> 
> * Nobody backed him up except Tony Blair and a few others.*




I can't decide if you're a pathological liar, or if you are a totally uninformed moron. 

WTF are you talking about?  After 9/11, NATO invoked Article 5 - the authorization for collective self-defense -  for the first time in NATO's history;  Congress authorized the attack on Afghanistan by a vote of 449-1;  NATO members France, Canada, England, Germany, Spain, Italy, the Netherlands, and a host of other NATO countries sent forces into Afghanistan; the UN authorized our presence in Afghanistan; and virtually every democrat in Congress was backing Bush to the hilt. 

The problem was, when you wanted to invade and occupy a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, and who was indeed an enemy of Al Qaeda other international islamic jihaddists.  The problem began, when you wanted to send american troops to their deaths against a country that wasn't a threat to us, while you cheered the war on from the comfort and safety of your keyboard.


----------



## Old Rocks (Nov 28, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> I can't decide if you're a pathological liar, or if you are a totally uninformed moron.
> 
> WTF are you talking about?  After 9/11, NATO invoked Article 5 - the authorization for collective self-defense -  for the first time in NATO's history;  Congress authorized the attack on Afghanistan by a vote of 449-1;  NATO members France, Canada, England, Germany, Spain, Italy, the Netherlands, and a host of other NATO countries sent forces into Afghanistan; the UN authorized our presence in Afghanistan; and virtually every democrat in Congress was backing Bush to the hilt.
> 
> The problem was, when you wanted to invade and occupy a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, and who was indeed an enemy of Al Qaeda other international islamic jihaddists.  The problem began, when you wanted to send american troops to their deaths against a country that wasn't a threat to us, while you cheered the war on from the comfort and safety of your keyboard.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 28, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> I can't decide if you're a pathological liar, or if you are a totally uninformed moron.
> 
> WTF are you talking about?  After 9/11, NATO invoked Article 5 - the authorization for collective self-defense -  for the first time in NATO's history;  Congress authorized the attack on Afghanistan by a vote of 449-1;  NATO members France, Canada, England, Germany, Spain, Italy, the Netherlands, and a host of other NATO countries sent forces into Afghanistan; the UN authorized our presence in Afghanistan; and virtually every democrat in Congress was backing Bush to the hilt.
> 
> The problem was, when you wanted to invade and occupy a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, and who was indeed an enemy of Al Qaeda other international islamic jihaddists.  The problem began, when you wanted to send american troops to their deaths against a country that wasn't a threat to us, while you cheered the war on from the comfort and safety of your keyboard.






Dipshit,, talking points, always the talking points!!


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 28, 2008)

WillowTree said:


> Dipshit,, talking points, always the talking points!!


they keep posting that bullshit and hope someone actually believes it

yeah, Saddam was an enemy of the islamists, but yet he offered sacntuary to bin laden
yeah, sure


----------



## KittenKoder (Nov 28, 2008)

Well ... the terrorists are celebrating the popularity of this thread. I can see it now, all of them hovering over their one computer going, "Look, it's the attention we wanted, look there, they can't stop talking about us."

Thanks media for giving them one more victory.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 28, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> Well ... the terrorists are celebrating the popularity of this thread. I can see it now, all of them hovering over their one computer going, "Look, it's the attention we wanted, look there, they can't stop talking about us."
> 
> Thanks media for giving them one more victory.


so, you'd rather not know whats happening in the world?


----------



## Neubarth (Nov 28, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> I get pos reps from people all of the time DavidS.
> 
> Many from people who like me putting you in your place.
> 
> There are alot more people on this forum who hate you. Than there are who dislike me



Sonni does not drink.  That tells me that he has some good qualities.


----------



## Lycurgus (Nov 28, 2008)

Red Dawn ............

I must wonder if you remember the legalities surrounding Desert Storm. 

43's first mistake was why he went into Iraq! 

In fact, I was surprised he did not use these facts when running against Gore, letting America know then that he was going to go into Iraq, why and the legality behind it.


----------



## Ravi (Nov 28, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> I can't decide if you're a pathological liar, or if you are a totally uninformed moron.


I think it's both.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 28, 2008)

Mumbai, India where the attacks took place has a fairly large Jewish community.

I am positive that somehow, someway, Israel is behind these attacks.

And Mossad is the organization that put the plan in motion.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 28, 2008)

Ravi said:


> I think it's both.



That's why we don't pay you to think darlink! Kerry on!


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 28, 2008)

WillowTree said:


> That's why we don't pay you to think darlink! Kerry on!


she lied, she doesnt think


----------



## DavidS (Nov 28, 2008)

WillowTree said:


> Dipshit,, talking points, always the talking points!!



Are you going to refute anything Red Dawn said or just throw random shit out like "talking points!"


----------



## jillian (Nov 28, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> she lied, she doesnt think



WT should concern herself with actually getting her own brain cells to work before she concerns herself with anyone else's thought processes.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 28, 2008)

jillian said:


> WT should concern herself with actually getting her own brain cells to work before she concerns herself with anyone else's thought processes.



I think WT is a he, though I'm not sure why a male would post pictures of kittens and butterflies all over his profile....


----------



## editec (Nov 28, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> I can't decide if you're a pathological liar, or if you are a totally uninformed moron.


 
Oh don't hold back like that, RD, tell us how you_ really_ feel.


----------



## editec (Nov 28, 2008)

Anyone remember the movie _Brazil?_




 


Our world is fast becoming _Brazil_, folks.


----------



## Chris (Nov 29, 2008)

editec said:


> Anyone remember the movie _Brazil?_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My GF calls it "crazy planet."


----------



## DavidS (Nov 29, 2008)

Update: After the Taj hotel was engulfed in flames, the last remaining terrorists were killed last night. The siege is officially over. The latest count had over 200 people killed including 6 Americans.


----------



## editec (Nov 29, 2008)

As far as I know, the terrorists made no demands.

They clearly came to kill people and die in the process.

This movement -- call it Alqada if we must, but I doubt there's a direct connection between these so called cells, it's more a philosophical connection I suspect -- is a threat to every national government and every people of every nation regardless of their religion.

I do not think these terrorists really represent the mindset of most Islamic people. 

They seem to be killing more Moslems than non-moslems worldwide.

They kill people in Moslem nations and non-Moslem nations, too.

I suspect their complaints are homegrown, but they are using worldwide _Jihad_ as their excuse.

The real question I want answered is: *where are they getting their money and arms to pull off these events?*

It cannot be cheap to do this kind of pointless slaughter.

Were I fighting terrorism I'd be seriously trying to follow the money.

Where did these guys, for example, get the arms and money to pull this off?

We've got to start thinking about fighting this kind of problem like we fight organized crime.

The *War on Terrorism* model doesn't seem to be working.


----------



## Annie (Nov 29, 2008)

Editec, from my readings over the past 7 years or so, it seems the US has been very effective at drying up the money that flowed from the US to terrorists. The trial last week about money going to Hamas being the latest example. However, it seems that some 'allies' have been dropping the ball, especially if their internal populations are a problem:

Report: Terrorists relying on informal cash networks; old financial controls less effective


----------



## DavidS (Nov 29, 2008)

editec said:


> As far as I know, the terrorists made no demands.
> 
> They clearly came to kill people and die in the process.
> 
> ...



An operation like this must have cost a pretty penny. Giving these guys weapons training, buying the guns, getting them inside of the Taj Hotel for weeks to get to know the layout... something like this must have cost a fortune and could not have been financed by anyone other than a government or someone who makes a lot of money from the government.


----------



## Annie (Nov 29, 2008)

DavidS said:


> An operation like this must have cost a pretty penny. Giving these guys weapons training, buying the guns, getting them inside of the Taj Hotel for weeks to get to know the layout... something like this must have cost a fortune and could not have been financed by anyone other than a government or someone who makes a lot of money from the government.



Seems the US had already tried to freeze the assets of one of the suspected groups in India:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/29/world/asia/29intel.html?partner=rss&emc=rss



> November 29, 2008
> U.S. Intelligence Focuses on Pakistani Group
> 
> By MARK MAZZETTI and SALMAN MASOOD
> ...


----------



## DavidS (Nov 29, 2008)

Annie said:


> Seems the US had already tried to freeze the assets of one of the suspected groups in India:
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/29/world/asia/29intel.html?partner=rss&emc=rss



Oh gee, Pakistan not doing enough to curb its own terrorists. Why does this story sound familiar to me?


----------



## Annie (Nov 29, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Oh gee, Pakistan not doing enough to curb its own terrorists. Why does this story sound familiar to me?



That country, among others was the point of the earlier link.


----------



## Lycurgus (Nov 29, 2008)

DavidS said:


> An operation like this must have cost a pretty penny. Giving these guys weapons training, buying the guns, getting them inside of the Taj Hotel for weeks to get to know the layout... something like this must have cost a fortune and could not have been financed by anyone other than a government or someone who makes a lot of money from the government.





David, I think most of us would be surprised at how some of these groups are funded and how much of a bank roll they have. Everything from governments supporting them, to you and I if we purchase something at the right store!


----------



## Annie (Nov 29, 2008)

Seems that if the Indian authorities are correct about the boat the terrorists landed with, it was pirated. Interesting, no? about all the pirate stories lately? Could be a source.


----------



## editec (Nov 29, 2008)

Annie said:


> Seems that if the Indian authorities are correct about the boat the terrorists landed with, it was pirated. Interesting, no? about all the pirate stories lately? Could be a source.


 
Piracy on the high seas in the 21st century.

Simply amazing.

You folks do know that the Somali pirates have siezed _"nearly 40"_ ships thus far, don't you?

Yeah, the "nearly 40" is a wierd number, isn't it?  _You mean like 38 or 39?_ 

FOX news didn't bother to tell us..._nearly fourty_ is the best info I have on this issue.

But pirates operating out of a failed nation so effectively that they can threaten international shipping near the straights of Hormuz?

I find that damned near impossible to understand.

How much money does the WEst pay collectively for our Navies?

And we cannot stop Somali pirates?

Does anyone besides myself find this rather unbelievable?

Why CAN'T our nation states crush these pirates?

I cannot believe there's any political, international, or military reason for us not to have long ago ended this piracy, folks.

I believe that those pirates continued existence is being _allowed to happen._


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 29, 2008)

Actually, the number is 97 as of yesterday.


----------



## Xenophon (Nov 29, 2008)

Indian forces take back financial capital after 60-hour attacks kill 195 &#8212; including 6 Americans.

Can't post URLs, sorry.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 29, 2008)

editec said:


> Piracy on the high seas in the 21st century.
> 
> Simply amazing.
> 
> ...



We have the most technologically advanced Navy in the world. We went to war in World War 1 due to sinking of the Lucitania. Why don't we declare war on these pirates and send a fleet of American warships over there and destroy them? Our Navy could use the target practice as I doubt these pirates have any sophisticated weapons.


----------



## Annie (Nov 29, 2008)

On the boat and Pakistan links:

Focus on abandoned boat as Mumbai seige ends - CNN.com



> MUMBAI, India (CNN) -- As investigators work to unmask the group responsible for the Mumbai terror attacks which have killed at least 183 people, police and soldiers continued to search the Taj Mahal Hotel room by room Saturday to make sure all trapped guests have left and no terrorists remain hidden.
> 
> 
> An Indian commando leaves the Taj Mahal Hotel after battling the terrorists.
> ...


----------



## DavidS (Nov 29, 2008)

Annie said:


> On the boat and Pakistan links:
> 
> Focus on abandoned boat as Mumbai seige ends - CNN.com



There are deep Pakistani ties here. Just how deep and how far up the ladder these ties go.... phew. It's scary to think what could happen.


----------



## editec (Nov 29, 2008)

DavidS said:


> We have the most technologically advanced Navy in the world. We went to war in World War 1 due to sinking of the Lucitania. Why don't we declare war on these pirates and send a fleet of American warships over there and destroy them? Our Navy could use the target practice as I doubt these pirates have any sophisticated weapons.


 

Ah, _yeah._

So, given that, doesn't that make us wonder why that has not ALREADY happened?

I mean if not the USA, then why hasn't some other nation done it?

You see?  This is why some of us become conspiracy theorists.

We cannot BELIEVE that our governments can possibly be so incompetent as they so often appear to be.

And if you assume, as in this case, that there is no reason for why d3aling with these pirates has not_ already_ been done, then it isn't much a stretch to begin imagining that COLLECTIVELY the governments have decided that having a pirate menace is a useful thing to have, know what I mean?

I promise you that if some non-governmental organziation is employed to take out this pirate menace, then that will be more proof to me that national governments are being made to appear completely impotent _ON PURPOSE._

And if that is the case, then that is still more grist for the various * international conspiracy theory *mills  that are grinding away on the facts that keep showing us that our governments so often say one thing but then do another.

Hidden agendas, folks. That's what I'm talking about.

Some of us sense that they not only do exist, but they exist on the highest levels of power in this world.

I don't mean to sound like a conspiracy freak, but this Somali pirate thing, and the world's COLLECTIVE LACK OF RESPONSE to this threat in such a strategically important place for international shipping of oil, makes the case that *the agenda is  not exactly as we are are constantly being reported  by our media.*


----------



## Old Rocks (Nov 29, 2008)

editec said:


> Piracy on the high seas in the 21st century.
> 
> Simply amazing.
> 
> ...



Not just in Somalia. There has been piracy in South America, and Indonesia.
A New Golden Age Of High Seas Piracy?

I see where Blackwater is considering building their own little navy, for hire. This rise of modern mercenerys at the same time as the piracy looks to me like a double ripoff. What are we paying our Navy for? What do we have a fleet of Predators for? 

I can easily see a time when one branch of Blackwater is hi-jacking ships, while the other collects money for "protection". Time to get out of unneccessary wars, and protect our commerce. Worldwide, in cooperation with other nations who have assets in jeopardy from these criminals.


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 29, 2008)

Old Rocks said:


> Not just in Somalia. There has been piracy in South America, and Indonesia.
> A New Golden Age Of High Seas Piracy?
> 
> I see where Blackwater is considering building their own little navy, for hire. This rise of modern mercenerys at the same time as the piracy looks to me like a double ripoff. What are we paying our Navy for? What do we have a fleet of Predators for?
> ...



Where is the UN navy when you need em ?


----------



## ABikerSailor (Nov 29, 2008)

You guys (and gals) wanna know what pissed me off about this whole fiasco?

The Indian police and SWAT.  Not only were they incompetent, as evidenced by the way they would stand up, hold their guns over their heads, and THEN try to fire into a window........FROM ACROSS THE FUCKING STREET!

Not only that, I saw another one that had a 50 cal sniper rifle with tripod, in prone position.  He fired, and as soon as he did, he rolled over and hid behind a wall.

Nope.......what they should have done was sent in a SEAL team or two, or a few squads of people who had done at least 1 tour in Iraq.  The Indians were saying that it was difficult going house to house and seeking out terrorists.  Well....WTF has the US Military been doing for the past 5 years?  Besides that, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan are all close to India, so it would have probably taken a max of 24 hours to get some people deployed over there.

Shit......if it had been OUR boys in the fight, it would have lasted a hell of a lot less than 50 some odd hours, and would have not lost as many lives.

They've got the most incompetent police force that I think I've ever seen.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 29, 2008)

ABikerSailor said:


> You guys (and gals) wanna know what pissed me off about this whole fiasco?
> 
> The Indian police and SWAT.  Not only were they incompetent, as evidenced by the way they would stand up, hold their guns over their heads, and THEN try to fire into a window........FROM ACROSS THE FUCKING STREET!
> 
> ...



If the US military or NYPD were involved in this, it would've lasted 2, maybe 3 hours tops. Something like this wouldn't happen in NYC, because these clowns would be taken out asap. We don't fuck around with hostage situations. The Indian military is incompetent... I really had high hopes for them, but this was just terrible handling of the situation. I sure as hell hope to God they (the Indian military) didn't shoot any of the hostages.


----------



## Annie (Nov 29, 2008)

DavidS said:


> If the US military or NYPD were involved in this, it would've lasted 2, maybe 3 hours tops. Something like this wouldn't happen in NYC, because these clowns would be taken out asap. We don't fuck around with hostage situations. The Indian military is incompetent... I really had high hopes for them, but this was just terrible handling of the situation. I sure as hell hope to God they (the Indian military) didn't shoot any of the hostages.



I don't think any calls were put out by India for outside help? The police headquarters was the place first attacked, with the head of terror unit killed on sight. 

I don't know too many cities outside of NY that would be equal to the challenge of 3 major hotels, and other locations, (I believe at one point 10), being hit within minutes of each other, after civilians first mowed down indiscriminately in the street from hijacked police van. Uniforms were taken from the dead in the police department. 

I'm pretty amazed by the swaggering from those that say we should just be employing diplomacy.


----------



## Chris (Nov 29, 2008)

MUMBAI, India (CNN) -- Inside the blacked-out Taj Mahal Palace Hotel, hallways were littered with bloodied bodies. 

A commando in disguise give details of what went down in the Taj hotel when commandos went in. 

Terrorists were still holding 200 people 33 hours after the assault began.

Knowing next to nothing about what they might encounter in the dark recesses of the hotel, Indian Army commandos decided to go back in -- and were met by terrorists firing mercilessly, throwing grenades and continuously switching positions. 

The sound of gunfire and explosions reverberated throughout the hotel's atrium, making it impossible to pinpoint the origin of the shots.

Through it all, the commandos walked down pitch-black halls, trying to navigate the damaged hotel without knowing the layout. 

A commando spokesman, his face and hair swathed in a black scarf and wearing dark glasses to hide his identity, revealed these details of the mission inside the Taj at a news conference Saturday. 

At 6:30 a.m. Friday, the battle at the Taj came to a head with a final firefight at the room holding the 200 hostages, he said.

When the gunfire stopped, commandos -- known as the Black Cats -- entered the room and freed all 200 hostages. 

Their difficulties had been apparent from the beginning, he said.

"We did not know the layout of the hotel," the commando told reporters. "There was one person on the hotel staff who was helping to guide us around."

They entered the hotel for the first time essentially blind to what was ahead. They had no idea what kind of people they would encounter, what kind of weapons might be pointed at them, and whether they might be blown up by explosives.

"Then we heard gunshots on the second floor and we rushed toward the fired shots," he said. "While taking cover we found that there were 30 to 50 bodies lying dead. At that point we also came under fire. The moment they saw us, they hurled grenades."

When the shots stopped, the commandos moved toward the source of the gunfire.

"At that time, they vanished ... they had gone elsewhere," the commando said.  Watch commandos talk about fighting the attackers »

The attackers had a clear advantage, commandos said, because it was apparent from their movements they knew the hotel's layout. 

Commandos entered dark hotel filled with bodies, gunfire - CNN.com


----------



## ABikerSailor (Nov 29, 2008)

Unfortunately, David, there are suspicions that the Rabbi who was killed along with his wife, may have been hit by friendly fire.


----------



## Annie (Nov 29, 2008)

ABikerSailor said:


> Unfortunately, David, there are suspicions that the Rabbi who was killed along with his wife, may have been hit by friendly fire.



That could be, but I remember when they took the little boy out, they said he was 'fine, but drenched in blood.'


----------



## ABikerSailor (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah.....and the blood he was soaked in was that of his own parents.


----------



## Annie (Nov 29, 2008)

ABikerSailor said:


> Yeah.....and the blood he was soaked in was that of his own parents.



Who knows? However they should be able to figure out TOD. The boy was out hours before they stormed the locale.


----------



## ABikerSailor (Nov 29, 2008)

He was smuggled out by his nanny.


----------



## Annie (Nov 29, 2008)

ABikerSailor said:


> He was smuggled out by his nanny.



That's what I heard at first too, later that it was some worker there. Seems the situation really was too fluid to get straight stories.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 29, 2008)

Annie said:


> That's what I heard at first too, later that it was some worker there. Seems the situation really was too fluid to get straight stories.


thats how it always is today
first reports are generally not correct
the media is more interested in being first with a report over being right


----------



## DavidS (Nov 29, 2008)

Annie said:


> I don't think any calls were put out by India for outside help? The police headquarters was the place first attacked, with the head of terror unit killed on sight. I don't know too many cities outside of NY that would be equal to the challenge of 3 major hotels, and other locations, (I believe at one point 10), being hit within minutes of each other, after civilians first mowed down indiscriminately in the street from hijacked police van. Uniforms were taken from the dead in the police department.



Any major city can. They've already dealt with hostage situations. Some cities can call in their local SWAT team that has thermal imaging and night vision. The Indian army looked about 20-30 years outdated here... which is a little surprising since we send them military aid.



> I'm pretty amazed by the swaggering from those that say we should just be employing diplomacy.



Sorry, if you've got a gun to my head, it's not the right time to sit down, hold hands and sing kumbaya.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 29, 2008)

ABikerSailor said:


> Unfortunately, David, there are suspicions that the Rabbi who was killed along with his wife, may have been hit by friendly fire.



Can't be. The nanny who ran out with the little boy said the parents were already unconcious when she took the little boy out of the room. That was before any Indian police came in.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 29, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> thats how it always is today
> first reports are generally not correct
> the media is more interested in being first with a report over being right



This story has been concrete since the attacks first occurred. The nanny who was there with the Rabbi and his wife, ran into the room and took the boy, whose pants were blood soaked. This was BEFORE any Indian military or police showed up. The boy is two years old and his parents are from Crown Heights, Brooklyn, an ultra-orthodox community. 

There is a report from Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper that has the number of Jews killed in this raid at 8. Disgusting savages.


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 29, 2008)

DavidS said:


> This story has been concrete since the attacks first occurred. The nanny who was there with the Rabbi and his wife, ran into the room and took the boy, whose pants were blood soaked. This was BEFORE any Indian military or police showed up. The boy is two years old and his parents are from Crown Heights, Brooklyn, an ultra-orthodox community.
> 
> There is a report from Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper that has the number of Jews killed in this raid at 8. Disgusting savages.



How many Hindus ? How many Muslims? How many Christians? How many athiests ? Why does it matter ?


----------



## DavidS (Nov 29, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> How many Hindus ? How many Muslims? How many Christians? How many athiests ? Why does it matter ?



Uh, because I'm Jewish and I care about my people. It's called being ethnocentric. I'm sure if there are some religious Catholics here, they would be worried if someone bombed the Vatican.


----------



## ekrem (Nov 29, 2008)

DavidS said:


> If the US military or NYPD were involved in this, it would've lasted 2, maybe 3 hours tops. Something like this wouldn't happen in NYC, because these clowns would be taken out asap. We don't fuck around with hostage situations. The Indian military is incompetent... I really had high hopes for them, but this was just terrible handling of the situation. I sure as hell hope to God they (the Indian military) didn't shoot any of the hostages.



Russian style:
Moscow hostage crisis chemical agent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Annie (Nov 29, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Any major city can. They've already dealt with hostage situations. Some cities can call in their local SWAT team that has thermal imaging and night vision. The Indian army looked about 20-30 years outdated here... which is a little surprising since we send them military aid.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, if you've got a gun to my head, it's not the right time to sit down, hold hands and sing kumbaya.



Yes to hostage takers, no on multiple sites, including one as huge as the Taj. In actuality this has been the scenario the law enforcement has been dreading since 9/11. They figure they've secured transportation as well as they can, but suicide bombers or snipers spread across an area hitting malls, schools, hotels, museums, theaters, like I said, with the exception of perhaps NY, not many cities come even close to handling.


----------



## Lycurgus (Nov 30, 2008)

I have to agree, multiple sites, with well trained gunmen would present nearly ever major city some real problems. Would it last as long as what took place in India? It could last longer, but, not if carnage was constant, the order to go in at all costs would have been given sooner, once mobilized. I think the advantage we have here would be the multiple departments in geographical areas which have SWAT capabilities. So yes, we could handle it better, but, the loss of life would still be great. Two men with automatic or even semi-auto's could do a great deal of damage in a very crowed area and if they were well trained, the numbers would double. 

With all that in mind, there is one factor which needs to be considered. Where I live we have the right to conceal carry and many of us do. So it is possible that a few citizens could get off hits which would take down some of the threat. So I do believe that we are much better prepared, but, there really is no way to prevent a large loss of life.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 30, 2008)

Lycurgus said:


> I have to agree, multiple sites, with well trained gunmen would present nearly ever major city some real problems. Would it last as long as what took place in India? It could last longer, but, not if carnage was constant, the order to go in at all costs would have been given sooner, once mobilized. I think the advantage we have here would be the multiple departments in geographical areas which have SWAT capabilities. So yes, we could handle it better, but, the loss of life would still be great. Two men with automatic or even semi-auto's could do a great deal of damage in a very crowed area and if they were well trained, the numbers would double.
> 
> With all that in mind, there is one factor which needs to be considered. Where I live we have the right to conceal carry and many of us do. So it is possible that a few citizens could get off hits which would take down some of the threat. So I do believe that we are much better prepared, but, there really is no way to prevent a large loss of life.



I think NY should lighten its gun laws in the wake of these attacks. If NY'ers are allowed to carry a concealed weapon outside of their home and some of these bastards try something... someone who's armed could really save lives.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 30, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Uh, because I'm Jewish and I care about my people. It's called being ethnocentric. I'm sure if there are some religious Catholics here, they would be worried if someone bombed the Vatican.


 DavidS only cares about the Jews at the Chabad Center. These are Jews who study Judiasms most Holy book theTalmud. And are the most racist people in the world. To them, all non Jews, called gentiles, are less than sub humans and their lives are worth nothing.


According to the Holy Talmud they study day and night. Here is what it says about non Jews:


Sanhedrin 58b. "If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed".

Sanhedrin 57a . "When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep"

Baba Kamma 37b. "The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."

Yebamoth 98a. "All gentile children are animals".

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . "Gentiles prefer sex with cows".

www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html

(btw the Talmud has hundreds of these verses about gentiles)


----------



## DavidS (Nov 30, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> ll DavidS only cares about the Jews at the Chabad Center. These are Jews who study Judiasms most Holy book theTalmud. Aand are the most racist people in the world. To them, all non Jews, called gentiles, are less than sub humans and their lives are worth nothing.
> 
> According to the Holy Talmud they study day and night:
> 
> ...



Revisionist history? A website that takes bits and pieces out of the Talmud and puts them together to make a verse? Complete and utter bullshit. The Talmud does not say those things.

Gentiles have a very special place in Judaism. But this isn't a religious thread so it's not the place to discuss it.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 30, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Gentiles have a very special place in Judaism.


Yea, it's called the *Cemetery!!!*


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 30, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> DavidS only cares about the Jews at the Chabad Center. These are Jews who study Judiasms most Holy book theTalmud. And are the most racist people in the world. To them, all non Jews, called gentiles, are less than sub humans and their lives are worth nothing.
> 
> 
> According to the Holy Talmud they study day and night. Here is what it says about non Jews:
> ...



Isn't that "hate" scripture ?


----------



## geonerd20 (Nov 30, 2008)

The American response to the terrorism in India is appalling!!  Americans are generally ignorant of the world outside their boundaries, and it shows in the coverage of recent events.  American TV has tried hard to somehow make a connection between the terrorist attacks in India, and US interest.  Here are a few points to consider:

1)  In the late 70s when the Soviets were in Afghanistan, the US fostered ties with the Pakistani intelligence services (ISI) and used the ISI as a conduit to funnel arms and money to the Taliban who were fighting the Soviets.

2)  Over the next three decades, the ISI continued to build and maintain ties with the Taliban and other extremists in Pakistan.  The US has sent billions of dollars to the Pakistani military with no strings attached, and certainly no requirement that the civilian governments in Pakistan reel in the ISI.

3)  After 9/11, the US attitude was "You are with us or you are against us".  Now the US pundits are asking for a "measured response" from India.  Where was the American "measured response" after 9/11.

These are the reasons why we are hated in many parts of the world.   It is not because we have "freedom" or because we have 200 channels on TV.  People hate us because when it suits our needs, we have supported some of the worst elements around the world.


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 30, 2008)

geonerd20 said:


> The American response to the terrorism in India is appalling!!  Americans are generally ignorant of the world outside their boundaries, and it shows in the coverage of recent events.  American TV has tried hard to somehow make a connection between the terrorist attacks in India, and US interest.  Here are a few points to consider:
> 
> 1)  In the late 70s when the Soviets were in Afghanistan, the US fostered ties with the Pakistani intelligence services (ISI) and used the ISI as a conduit to funnel arms and money to the Taliban who were fighting the Soviets.
> 
> ...



Yes---It's similar to an American election---we have to choose between the lesser of two evils.


----------



## Lycurgus (Nov 30, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> DavidS only cares about the Jews at the Chabad Center. These are Jews who study Judiasms most Holy book theTalmud. And are the most racist people in the world. To them, all non Jews, called gentiles, are less than sub humans and their lives are worth nothing





Since my faith operates in Israel, I do have some understanding of this. And though what you claim is true to a degree, that has changed greatly over the years.

Further, on a personal note, you might want to consider your own feelings before you call another person racist.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 30, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Isn't that "hate" scripture ?


Not according to DavidS!

Just google "Talmud says kill the gentiles" and all of the verses will come up.

The Chabad Center is a Jewish hate and genocide organization dedicated to the superiority of the Jews over all other people.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 30, 2008)

Lycurgus said:


> Further, on a personal note, you might want to consider your own feelings before you call another person racist.


I am 100% against racism in any way, shape, or form!


----------



## ABikerSailor (Nov 30, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Not according to DavidS!
> 
> Just google "Talmud says kill the gentiles" and all of the verses will come up.
> 
> *The Chabad Center is a Jewish hate and genocide organization dedicated to the superiority of the Jews over all other people.*



And you said that you were 100 percent against racism..........

Hatred and denigration of Jews qualifies as racist idiot.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 30, 2008)

ABikerSailor said:


> And you said that you were 100 percent against racism..........
> 
> Hatred and denigration of Jews qualifies as racist idiot.


How does exposing the hatred of gentiles by the Chabad Jews and the Talmud qualify as racism???


----------



## ABikerSailor (Nov 30, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> How does exposing the hatred of gentiles by the Chabad Jews and the Talmud qualify as racism???



No, , you are continually speaking out about how bad the Jews are, and how great the Muslims are.

I kinda think that India would side with the Jews.

Too bad you're too stupid to recognize that, but, what else can you expect from a spiritually rudderless person?


----------



## Gunny (Nov 30, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> I am 100% against racism in any way, shape, or form!





ABikerSailor said:


> And you said that you were 100 percent against racism..........
> 
> Hatred and denigration of Jews qualifies as racist idiot.



Owned again.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 30, 2008)

Gunny said:


> Owned again.


You are wrong as usual Gunny.

Being against the Chabad Jews is the same as being aginst the German Nazis.

They both say that they are the master race and all other people are sub 
species.

Both groups are hate groups and extreme racists.

So how can you defend either of them???


----------



## DavidS (Nov 30, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Being against the Chabad Jews is the same as being aginst the German Nazis. They both say that they are the master race and all other people are sub species. Both groups are hate groups and extreme racists. So how can you defend either of them???



First of all, your quotes are coming from a biased source. You're asking a nazi what he thinks of Jews. And it's like asking me what I think of Muslims. Clearly there is a bias.

Here is a website that has the English translation of the Talmud that isn't biased in any way. 

The Talmud

Now I defy you to find racist text in there, because you won't. Ultra Orthodox Judaism and my version of Judaism (conservative) have very different outlooks on life, but it Judaism overall is a very peaceful religion and is one of the only religions that focuses on living here on Earth and letting G-d worry about what happens to us after we die. You don't see religious Jews going off in foreign countries and attacking innocent people - quite the opposite. Jews work hand in hand with gentiles (non-Jews) on creating a prosperous and wonderful world to live in. We feel we represent a beacon for all other religions and countries to look at and follow our example of how to live life. We don't in any way demand it nor we do we go over and kill people who don't follow our examples. We have never waged war against another country unless our own country was being threatened. We are a peaceful people and a peaceful religion. The quotes you find on that biased website do NOT exist in the Talmud.


----------



## ABikerSailor (Nov 30, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> You are wrong as usual Gunny.
> 
> Being against the Chabad Jews is the same as being aginst the German Nazis.
> 
> ...



Yet again your ignorance is showing Sucking Mouse.  IF you would have bothered to read the Old Testament (maybe you didn't, would explain your failure as a Christian), you would see that the Jews DO NOT consider themselves to be the "master race".  Quite the contrary, as God Himself told the Jews that they were going to be "priests to the world", and the tribe of Levi, (you know, the Levites....they wrote down Leviticus for all other priests), was to be the High Priests of Israel.

Tell me again......that qualifies as a "master race" HOW?


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 30, 2008)

DavidS said:


> First of all, your quotes are coming from a biased source. You're asking a nazi what he thinks of Jews. And it's like asking me what I think of Muslims. Clearly there is a bias.
> 
> Here is a website that has the English translation of the Talmud that isn't biased in any way.
> 
> ...


How come when you google the verses I posted it comes up Talmud???


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 30, 2008)

Moses Maimonides: Advocate of Extermination

(the greatest Torah and Talmud teacher in all of Judiasm)


According to Maimonides' Principles, p. 5, Maimonides "spent twelve years extracting every decision and law from the Talmud, and arranging them all into 14 systematic volumes. The work was finally completed in 1180, and was called Mishnah Torah, or "Code of the Torah."

Maimonides taught in another part of the Mishnah Torah that gentiles are not human: "Man alone, and not vessels, can contract uncleanness by carriage. ...The corpse of a gentile, however, does not convey uncleanness by overshadowing. ...a gentile does not contract corpse uncleanness; and if a gentile touches, carries, or overshadows a corpse he is as one who did not touch it.

"To what is this like? It is like a beast which touches a corpse or overshadows it. And this applies not to corpse uncleanness only but to any other kind of uncleanness: neither gentiles nor cattle are susceptible to any uncleanness." (The Code of Maimonides, vol. 10, translated by Herbert Danby, Yale University Press, New Haven, 1954, pp. 8-9).

Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Rotze'ach 2 "A Jew who killed a righteous gentile is not executed in a court of law. It says in Exodus 21:14, 'If a man schemes against his fellow man and kills the man deliberately, take him away from the altar and put him to death.' But a gentile is not considered a man, and even more so, a Jew is not executed for killing an unrighteous gentile."


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 30, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> How come when you google the verses I posted it comes up Talmud???


because of what you searched for
its only gonna give you the liar sites

you really are this stupid, arent you?


----------



## DavidS (Nov 30, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> because of what you searched for
> its only gonna give you the liar sites
> 
> you really are this stupid, arent you?



you're asking a racist redneck if he's really that dumb? Who else would impersonate a Muslim terrorist on internet message forums?


----------



## ABikerSailor (Nov 30, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Moses Maimonides: Advocate of Extermination
> 
> (the greatest Torah and Talmud teacher in all of Judiasm)
> 
> ...



Hey dirtbag, if you're gonna quote Maimonides, you may wish to study on something OTHER than fucked up blog sites that agree with your Islamist screwed up viewpoints.

Personally?  I'd recommend this one, paying close attention to the series called "Derek HaShem", or The Way of God.  Here's the website address, so that instead of putting all sorts of crap in your brain, you would finally understand what you're spewing bullshit about............

Universal Torah Network

Oh yeah......in the latest one, you can also find out what "eye for an eye, and tooth for a tooth" REALLY means.

You're welcome Sucking Mouse.


----------



## del (Nov 30, 2008)

DavidS said:


> First of all, your quotes are coming from a biased source.* You're asking a nazi what he thinks of Jews. And it's like asking me what I think of Muslims*. Clearly there is a bias.



thanks for the tip. 
it's not like i took you seriously anyway, but it's nice to have confirmation.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 30, 2008)

del said:


> thanks for the tip.
> it's not like i took you seriously anyway, but it's nice to have confirmation.



Everyone has bias. To say that you're not biased in any way, shape or form, is to lie.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 30, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Everyone has bias. To say that you're not biased in any way, shape or form, is to lie.


SOME people can actually put aside any bias they might have and deal with the FACTS

but not many do
and even fewer liberals can


----------



## ABikerSailor (Nov 30, 2008)

But NO conservatives can......they're too busy congratulating themselves about their empty rhetoric that says family values are the most important.

Nope.....if conservatives had their way?  We'd still be living in dirt huts and burning dung for fuel.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 30, 2008)

ABikerSailor said:


> But NO conservatives can......they're too busy congratulating themselves about their empty rhetoric that says family values are the most important.
> 
> Nope.....if conservatives had their way?  We'd still be living in dirt huts and burning dung for fuel.


do you actually believe this crap?


----------



## DavidS (Nov 30, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> SOME people can actually put aside any bias they might have and deal with the FACTS



I've yet to see that on this message board.


----------



## Missourian (Nov 30, 2008)

ABikerSailor said:


> But NO conservatives can......they're too busy congratulating themselves about their empty rhetoric that says family values are the most important.
> 
> Nope.....if conservatives had their way?  *We'd still be living in dirt huts and burning dung for fuel.*




Until some liberal crashed in, doused our dung fire while babbling about see-oh-too and hottie-hottie.


----------



## Lycurgus (Nov 30, 2008)

ABikerSailor said:


> But NO conservatives can......they're too busy congratulating themselves about their empty rhetoric that says family values are the most important.
> 
> Nope.....if conservatives had their way?  We'd still be living in dirt huts and burning dung for fuel.






Are you still sea sick?


----------



## Missourian (Nov 30, 2008)

ABikerSailor said:


> But NO conservatives can......they're too busy congratulating themselves about their empty rhetoric that says family values are the most important.
> 
> Nope.....if conservatives had their way?  We'd still be living in dirt huts and burning dung for fuel.




Here's a messege from your liberal friends...who wants us in huts?


[youtube]RQbzRRu-WpY[/youtube]


----------



## Mad Scientist (Nov 30, 2008)

Oh come on now everyone! When you first heard of this on headline news or whatever, what did your instinct tell you? 

*Muslims and Islam*. When are you people just gonna' accept the fact that *they* only exist to kill and enslave those that don't convert? Wake up people.


----------



## Lycurgus (Nov 30, 2008)

Mad Scientist said:


> Oh come on now everyone! When you first heard of this on headline news or whatever, what did your instinct tell you?
> 
> *Muslims and Islam*. When are you people just gonna' accept the fact that *they* only exist to kill and enslave those that don't convert? Wake up people.



Sadly, your right. That is the image which is given off and left with us.


----------



## Annie (Dec 1, 2008)

Well here's the problem with Muslim reaction to muslim caused violence:

Muslims condemn Mumbai attacks, worry about image



> Muslims condemn Mumbai attacks, worry about image
> 
> Nov 30 06:14 PM US/Eastern
> By KARIN LAUB
> ...


----------



## editec (Dec 1, 2008)

It's a drop dead certainty that until sane Muslims develop the balls to stand up and condemn the radicals who are besmirching the good name of their religion, that many non-Moslems are going to continue to assume that Muslims condone this kind of insane terrorist behavior.

It is apparent to me that about half the people on this board do not yet realize that radical Islam is actually even more of a threat to most Muslims than it is to the non-Muslims.

Apparently no amount of data, and no amount of irrefutable facts, either, will dissuade these folks from demonizing all Muslims for the actions of a very small group of radicals hiding behind the excuse of religion to kill in the name of Allah.

Now much of that can probably be attributed to our know-nothings' unwillingness to abandon their demand for simple answers to complex problems, and much of it also can be written off as plain old ethnocentism.

STill the statistics and the history is out there for all to see.

You are much more likely to die at the hands of radical Islamic terrorists if you're a Muslim, than if you're a Christian.

Israeli Jews, on the other hand?

Not so lucky. 

Like the Muslims of Asia, they share the same lands with these terrorists, and so they are targeted for destruction every damned day.


----------



## DavidS (Dec 1, 2008)

Annie said:


> Well here's the problem with Muslim reaction to muslim caused violence:
> 
> Muslims condemn Mumbai attacks, worry about image



So we give the Saudis money to buy oil and in turn, the Saudis use that money to arm terrorist organizations. Where have I heard this before? And we were paying them $150 per barrel why?


----------



## editec (Dec 1, 2008)

DavidS said:


> And we were paying them $150 per barrel why?


 
They have us over a barrel?


----------



## del (Dec 1, 2008)

editec said:


> They have us over a barrel?



that was crude.


----------



## editec (Dec 1, 2008)

del said:


> that was crude.


 
I'll try to be more refined in the future.


----------



## Sunni Man (Dec 1, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Who else would impersonate a Muslim terrorist on internet message forums?


The only thing worse is an Israel loving Zionist Jew like you, who impersonates himself as a loyal patriotic American on this forum.


----------



## ABikerSailor (Dec 1, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> The only thing worse is an Israel loving Zionist Jew like you, who impersonates himself as a loyal patriotic American on this forum.



Ya know Sucking Moron, that is a totally false statement......I've never heard them proclaim that they were Zionists or that they were anything other than an American citizen.  Granted, they may defend things that you, in your own little deluded way, think are bad, but they are still allowed their viewpoint.

You, on the other hand, have declared yourself to be a Muslim, you have never traveled outside of the US, although you do plan to go to Mecca, you don't really appear to have any kind of loyalty to this country or anything other than your own fucked up views, as evidenced by your numerous idiotic posts.

Try again douchebag........

Back to topic.....

Several years ago, when a lot of this terrorist b.s. started, I began to research Islam and their theology.  I bounced it against what I knew about several other theologies (you can find the truth faster when you look for the similarities), and found that Islam was almost exactly BACKWARDS from Christianity and Judaism.  For the longest time, I was a defender of Muslims on another message board, but, after I started to see how violent and bullshit their religion was, I started to speak out against it.

Nope......Islam is NOT a "religion of peace", because they are fixated on world domination.  Matter of fact, one of the tenants of their religion is that EVERYONE has to become Muslim, world wide.

Now......I'm not exactly the brightest crayon in the box, but, just ONE theology?  If the world was supposed to be only one way, then everyone would drive the same car or truck, with only black or white options.  We'd all live in the same house, with the same number of family members......

Do you see how boring the world would get?  

If God didn't like variety, then why did He create so much of it?


----------



## Missourian (Dec 1, 2008)

del said:


> that was crude.





editec said:


> I'll try to be more refined in the future.




You two think you're so slick.


----------



## del (Dec 1, 2008)

Missourian said:


> You two think you're so slick.



i was told it's too oily to give you rep for this.


----------



## ABikerSailor (Dec 1, 2008)

Black humor at it's crudest and slickest..............


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 1, 2008)

DavidS said:


> So we give the Saudis money to buy oil and in turn, the Saudis use that money to arm terrorist organizations. Where have I heard this before? *And we were paying them $150 per barrel why*?


because SOME in the USA wont allow the drilling for OIL in our areas


----------



## Gunny (Dec 1, 2008)

editec said:


> It's a drop dead certainty that until sane Muslims develop the balls to stand up and condemn the radicals who are besmirching the good name of their religion, that many non-Moslems are going to continue to assume that Muslims condone this kind of insane terrorist behavior.
> 
> It is apparent to me that about half the people on this board do not yet realize that radical Islam is actually even more of a threat to most Muslims than it is to the non-Muslims.
> 
> ...



I'd agree they are as much a threat to other Muslims as non-Muslims, but only "more of" because of proximity.

However, Christians are judged by the radicals and fundies, and they sure as Hell aren't anything more than a blip on the radar.  The rest of us DO denounce them; yet, STILL get lumped right in with them by the know-nothings.


----------



## ABikerSailor (Dec 1, 2008)

Ya know Gunny, you really don't need to denounce others.......they'll do it all on their own.

Know something else?  If the World to Come comes as it is written in the Torah, then all the religious nutjobs are going to be winked out of existence.  That is what the precursor is to the World to Come.

Everyone else considers it to be Armageddon, or some other crap about the world ending.........now, my question is for the religious fundies, do you REALLY think that the Rapture is going to come?  I don't.......because of all the people that are supposed to be here, will remain.  The others will be taken out.

Almost a mirror image of the "Left Behind" series.


----------



## Gunny (Dec 1, 2008)

ABikerSailor said:


> Ya know Gunny, you really don't need to denounce others.......they'll do it all on their own.
> 
> Know something else?  If the World to Come comes as it is written in the Torah, then all the religious nutjobs are going to be winked out of existence.  That is what the precursor is to the World to Come.
> 
> ...



When I say denounce them, I mean in the context of some 'tard like Fed Phelps pulls his crap and makes the news and it gets posted.  There's nothing Christian about what that idiot spews.


----------



## Sunni Man (Dec 1, 2008)

Fred Phelps just says "God Hates Fags" 

The Word of God in the Bible calls Sodomites an "Abomination"

What's the difference?

Fred Phelps is just quoting scripture in modern language.


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 1, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Fred Phelps just says "God Hates Fags"
> 
> The Word of God in the Bible calls Sodomites an "Abomination"
> 
> ...


WRONG 

God hates the SIN of sodomy, but loves the sinner and wants them to repent
not be killed as the "cure"


----------



## Sunni Man (Dec 1, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> WRONG
> 
> God hates the SIN of sodomy, but loves the sinner and wants them to repent
> not be killed as the "cure"


The Bible says Sodomites are to be stoned to death. So much for love the sinner hate the sin!!!


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 1, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> The Bible says Sodomites are to be stoned to death. So much for love the sinner hate the sin!!!


that was before the price had been paid for sin
but you wouldnt understand that


----------



## editec (Dec 1, 2008)

Gunny said:


> I'd agree they are as much a threat to other Muslims as non-Muslims, but only "more of" because of proximity.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Gunny (Dec 1, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> The Bible says Sodomites are to be stoned to death. So much for love the sinner hate the sin!!!



No it doesn't.


----------



## random3434 (Dec 1, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> The Bible says Sodomites are to be stoned to death. So much for love the sinner hate the sin!!!



Maybe you should read this sunni boy:

What I believe the Bible says about homosexuality




> If this is, in fact, Christ's intention, as it appears to be, then those who are critical of homosexuals are, in fact, to be criticized for their stand against them.
> 
> Now it is made clear. God made all people as they are innately. Sexuality is innate; the Salk Institute has proven this by mapping the sexuality gene. The Creator made genetics, and is therefore ultimately responsible for how each one of us turns out via those traits that are genetic. It is also very safe to say that God does not make junk, nor does He make people just so He can hate them. After all, God is Love. The real truth is that God not only loves His gay children just as much as He does His heterosexual children, but He has seen the persecution we must endure, and has set for us "a name better than sons and daughters" because of it when we walk with Jesus Christ.
> 
> John S. Dixon


----------



## Gunny (Dec 1, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Fred Phelps just says "God Hates Fags"
> 
> The Word of God in the Bible calls Sodomites an "Abomination"
> 
> ...



You moron.  Fred Phelps says US troops are being killed as judgement form God because the US allows homosexuals and doesn't hate them.  Get your story straight.


----------



## Sunni Man (Dec 1, 2008)

Gunny said:


> You moron.  Fred Phelps says US troops are being killed as judgement form God because the US allows homosexuals and doesn't hate them.  Get your story straight.




9/11, AIDS, and Katrina were also Judgements from God against a sinfull and Sodomite loving nation.


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## Gunny (Dec 1, 2008)

editec said:


> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> > I'd agree they are as much a threat to other Muslims as non-Muslims, but only "more of" because of proximity.
> ...


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## Sunni Man (Dec 1, 2008)

Gunny said:


> No it doesn't.



Leviticus 20:13   If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads


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## ABikerSailor (Dec 1, 2008)

Gunny said:


> When I say denounce them, I mean in the context of some 'tard like Fed Phelps pulls his crap and makes the news and it gets posted.  There's nothing Christian about what that idiot spews.



You're absolutely right......did'ja know that everywhere that 'tard went, there were LOTS of big, burly mean bikers that told him to take his shit elsewhere.

Personally?  I'd kinda like it if he was winked out of existence.  He reminds me a great deal of Hitler, with his rhetoric.  I mean........Hitler used rhetoric against those he deemed unfit, why else would we let a malevolent spirit like that inhabit the Earth again?

And Sunnidiot, you should really investigate the why of what some people are saying, rather than just trusting their words.

Like I said before Sunnidiot, you are a window licker on the short bus, with a big fucking helmet.


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## Gunny (Dec 1, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Leviticus 20:13   If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads



That doesn't fly.  One, it doesn't say a word about stoning them.  Two, Levitican Law was superceded by Christ.  Christ says, "Judge not, lest ye be judged."

Anymore of your lameass arguments I can destroy for you?


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## Sunni Man (Dec 1, 2008)

Gunny said:


> That doesn't fly.  One, it doesn't say a word about stoning them.  Two, Levitican Law was superceded by Christ.  Christ says, "Judge not, lest ye be judged."
> 
> Anymore of your lameass arguments I can destroy for you?


I don't believe that Jesus changed the law. So the Levitical Laws are still in effect.

Sodomites are to be put to death. And stoning was the way they executed people.


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## ABikerSailor (Dec 1, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Leviticus 20:13   If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads



See y'all?  This is the kinda crap that I'm talking about.  Sunnidiot is quoting Leviticus, which is a book written by the Levites to put down anything that didn't belong in the Temple, because they were the High Priests to a nation (Israel) that was designated by God Himself to be the nation of priests to the world.

Now........lemmie ask ya something.......

If you like quoting the Old Testament, as well as believing all the stuff that is there (most of it's true, but there are parables and lessons contained therein.  So, if you're so enamored by the OT, then explain to me why you are still on a computer (as evidenced by the crayon scrawlings on this board that you've written), why are you still driving a car and using cell phones?  After all, if we were supposed to stay in the dark ages, then please tell me why progress happens?


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## ABikerSailor (Dec 1, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> I don't believe that Jesus changed the law. So the Levitical Laws are still in effect.
> 
> Sodomites are to be put to death. And stoning was the way they executed people.



Again.....please tell me......if Yeshua was the true Son of God, and was sent down here by Him, then why do you keep holding on stubbornly to the Biblical ages?

Ya really want to sleep on a rock and hope wild animals don't get ya, hoping all the time that your little dung fire will generate enough light to keep the bastards at bay?

I'd kinda like to see you thrown back in time to that age.  And, chances are, you'd be killed quickly.


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## Gunny (Dec 1, 2008)

ABikerSailor said:


> You're absolutely right......did'ja know that everywhere that 'tard went, there were LOTS of big, burly mean bikers that told him to take his shit elsewhere.
> 
> Personally?  I'd kinda like it if he was winked out of existence.  He reminds me a great deal of Hitler, with his rhetoric.  I mean........Hitler used rhetoric against those he deemed unfit, why else would we let a malevolent spirit like that inhabit the Earth again?
> 
> ...



Yeah, I got a kick out of the bikers.  Been known to hang out with more than a few.  They should have taken chains to the dirtbags.


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## Sunni Man (Dec 1, 2008)

ABikerSailor said:


> If you like quoting the Old Testament, as well as believing all the stuff that is there (most of it's true, but there are parables and lessons contained therein.  So, if you're so enamored by the OT, then explain to me why you are still on a computer (as evidenced by the crayon scrawlings on this board that you've written), why are you still driving a car and using cell phones?  After all, if we were supposed to stay in the dark ages, then please tell me why progress happens?


Where does the Torah or Levitical Laws speak against having modern conveniances or technology to make life easier??


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## ABikerSailor (Dec 1, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Where does the Torah or Levitical Laws speak against having modern conveniances or technology to make life easier??



LISTEN STUPID!!!!!!  If you want to be there, then why the fuck are you still in the present day age?

Ever hear of progress?


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## Gunny (Dec 1, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> I don't believe that Jesus changed the law. So the Levitical Laws are still in effect.
> 
> Sodomites are to be put to death. And stoning was the way they executed people.



Wrong.  Let's just examine this from a logical standpoint ...

A.  Homosexual who does what he wishes in the privacy of his own house and harms no one.

B.  Hate-spewing nutjob hiding behind religion and cherrypicking facts in order to call for the execution of A.

I vote B gets stoned to death as a FAR bigger threat to society than A.


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## Sunni Man (Dec 1, 2008)

Gunny said:


> Yeah, I got a kick out of the bikers.  Been known to hang out with more than a few.  They should have taken chains to the dirtbags.


 Basically, Fred Phelps is right in that God allowed us to be engage in a war where our soilders are being killed and we are being humiliated, because of our sin as a nation. One of those sins is allowing homosexuality to thrive in our country.


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## Annie (Dec 1, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Basically, Fred Phelps is right in that God allowed us to be engage in a war where our soilders are being killed and we are being humiliated, because of our sin as a nation. One of those sins is allowing homosexuality to thrive in our country.



Do you also agree with Jim Jones? LOL! With Phelps there's no doubt where your fate lies and it's not with the virgins or angels.


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## Gunny (Dec 1, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Where does the Torah or Levitical Laws speak against having modern conveniances or technology to make life easier??



Leviticus was a drunk.  S&M quotes one verse from Leviticus, but three or four verses prior to it the same verse is written verbatim, minus the "should be put to death" part.  

S&M's just cherrypicking to suit his argument.  If you want to call it that.


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## ABikerSailor (Dec 1, 2008)

Gunny said:


> Wrong.  Let's just examine this from a logical standpoint ...
> 
> A.  Homosexual who does what he wishes in the privacy of his own house and harms no one.
> 
> ...



Ya know?  I totally agree.  

Hey Sunnidiot, got a rock?  I wanna throw one or several at you.


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## Gunny (Dec 1, 2008)

ABikerSailor said:


> See y'all?  This is the kinda crap that I'm talking about.  Sunnidiot is quoting Leviticus, which is a book written by the Levites to put down anything that didn't belong in the Temple, because they were the High Priests to a nation (Israel) that was designated by God Himself to be the nation of priests to the world.
> 
> Now........lemmie ask ya something.......
> 
> If you like quoting the Old Testament, as well as believing all the stuff that is there (most of it's true, but there are parables and lessons contained therein.  So, if you're so enamored by the OT, then explain to me why you are still on a computer (as evidenced by the crayon scrawlings on this board that you've written), why are you still driving a car and using cell phones?  After all, if we were supposed to stay in the dark ages, then please tell me why progress happens?



Are you actually using Scruncii Man as a source for your argument?


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## Annie (Dec 1, 2008)

Gunny said:


> Are you actually using Scruncii Man as a source for your argument?



Aren't Scrucii what I use to pull my hair back?


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## Gunny (Dec 1, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Basically, Fred Phelps is right in that God allowed us to be engage in a war where our soilders are being killed and we are being humiliated, because of our sin as a nation. One of those sins is allowing homosexuality to thrive in our country.



Basically, you and Fred Phelps are idiots.  Seems both of you morons presume to speak for God.

Well, no, Phelps isn't right.  He claims to be a Baptist, and a Christian.  Show me where in the New Testament of the Holy Bible Christ teaches one word of the hate you spew.  Phelps can call himself what he wants but his actions speak louder than words and his behavior is defnintely NOT Christ-like.

Levticus was a mortal man.  When you have God appear before me and tell me Himself homosexuals should be stoned to death, I'll believe He said it.  Until then, you speak only for you, and you are an idiot, and it would be a waste of perfectly good rocks to stone YOU to death.


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## Gunny (Dec 1, 2008)

Annie said:


> Aren't Scrucii what I use to pull my hair back?



Yes.


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## Annie (Dec 1, 2008)

Gunny said:


> Yes.



I'm so confused!


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## Sunni Man (Dec 1, 2008)

Gunny said:


> Levticus was a mortal man.  When you have God appear before me and tell me Himself homosexuals should be stoned to death, I'll believe He said it.  Unt


Leviticus wasn't a person numb nuts!! 

Leviticus is a book in the Old Testament dealing with the Levite Priests and the Torah Laws.

It was written by Moses who recieved the Words straight from God.


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## Gunny (Dec 1, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Leviticus wasn't a person numb nuts!!
> 
> Leviticus is a book in the Old Testament dealing with the Levite Priests and the Torah Laws.
> 
> It was written by Moses who recieved the Words straight from God.



Y'think?  Well, let me fix that for you.  The Levites were drunks.  How's that?  Obviously since you have no other argument you wish to go after grammatical errors.


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## Sunni Man (Dec 2, 2008)

Gunny said:


> Y'think?  Well, let me fix that for you.  The Levites were drunks.  How's that?  Obviously since you have no other argument you wish to go after grammatical errors.


What the #@%&$ are you talking about??  

Gunny, put the bottle down, get sober, and come back and then post


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