# False Flag Expert Debunks 911 Arab Myth



## bdjusa (Sep 2, 2008)

Andreas von Buelow was former State Secretary at the Ministry Of Defense in Germany from 1976-1980. Read the explosive comments from an expert in False flag attacks and how unlikely it is that Arabs masterminded the 911 attacks. I placed some revealing information from two of his interviews down below. 

From Von Buelow: 

If this Atta was the decisive man in the operation, it's really strange that he took such a risk of taking a plane that would reach Boston such a short time before the connecting flight. Had his flight been a few minutes late, he would not have been in the plane that was hijacked. Why should a sophisticated terrorist do this? One can, by the way, read on CNN (Internet) that none of these names were on the official passenger lists. None of them had gone through the check-in procedures. And why did none of the threatened pilots give the agreed-upon code 7700 over the [Steuerknueppel: STEERING NOB?] to the ground station? In addition: The black boxes which are fire and shock proof, as well as the voice recordings, contain no valuable data-- 

like assailants who, in their preparations, leave tracks behind them like a herd of stampeding elephants? They made payments with credit cards with their own names; they reported to their flight instructors with their own names. They left behind rented cars with flight manuals in Arabic for jumbo jets. They took with them, on their suicide trip, wills and farewell letters, which fall into the hands of the FBI, because they were stored in the wrong place and wrongly addressed. Clues were left like behind like in a child's game of hide-and-seek, which were to be followed! 


I don't know that either. How should I? I simply use my common sense, and-- See: The terrorists behaved in such a way to attract attention. And as practicing Muslims, they were in a strip-tease bar, and, drunken, stuck dollar bills into the panty of the dancer. 


I can state: the planning of the attacks was technically and organizationally a master achievement. To hijack four huge airplanes within a few minutes and within one hour, to drive them into their targets, with complicated flight maneuvers! This is unthinkable, without years-long support from secret apparatuses of the state and industry. 

For 60 decisive minutes, the military and intelligence agencies let the fighter planes stay on the ground, 48 hours later, however, the FBI presented a list of suicide attackers. Within ten days, it emerged that seven of them were still alive. 

With the help of the horrifying attacks, the Western mass democracies were subjected to brainwashing. The enemy image of anti-communism doesn't work any more; it is to be replaced by peoples of Islamic belief. They are accused of having given birth to suicidal terrorism. 

From the Christopher Bollyn with Von Buelow: 

Andreas von Buelow, the former head of the parliamentary commission that oversaw the German intelligence agencies, told me that a sophisticated false-flag operation like 9-11 has an organizational structure with three basic levels: architectural, operational, and working. Atta and the 19 Arabs blamed as the "hijackers" of 9-11 were part of the working level, von Buelow said, and were simply part of the deception. That is, after all, how false-flag terror works. 

Von Buelow said that he believed that the Mossad, Israel's foreign intelligence service, was behind the terror attacks of 9-11. These attacks, he said, were designed to turn public opinion against the Arabs, and to boost military and security spending. Six years later, with more than one thousand billion U.S. taxpayer dollars wasted on the fraudulent "war on terror" and the disastrous and costly wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, there is no question that 9-11 has been crassly exploited to push military and security spending through the roof. 


"You don't get the higher echelons," von Buelow said, referring to the "architectural structure," which masterminds such false-flag terror attacks. At this level, he said, the organization doing the planning, such as Mossad, is primarily interested in affecting public opinion. It goes without saying that the mass media must be tightly controlled in order for such large-scale deception to succeed. 

"Ninety-five percent of the work of the intelligence agencies around the world is deception and disinformation," von Buelow said, which is widely propagated in the mainstream media creating an accepted version of events. "Journalists don't even raise the simplest questions," he said, adding, "Those who differ are labeled as crazy." 
End of Interview. 

I am not trying to upset people who are convinced evil Muslim terrorists are responsible for 911. I just think all pertinent information should be available and people should try and be open minded about all possibilities.


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 2, 2008)

This belongs in the Conspiracy forum. With all the other whacko shit about 911.


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## Sunni Man (Sep 2, 2008)

9/11 was a Mossad plan to draw the U.S. into a war against Israel's arab enemys.

It had the backing of the Zionists who are in control of the American government.


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## dilloduck (Sep 2, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> 9/11 was a Mossad plan to draw the U.S. into a war against Israel's arab enemys.
> 
> It had the backing of the Zionists who are in control of the American government.



naturally you have a lot of proof ?


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## glockmail (Sep 2, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> 9/11 was a Mossad plan to draw the U.S. into a war against Israel's arab enemys.
> 
> It had the backing of the Zionists who are in control of the American government.


 And to think I had respect for you before this, you anti-Semitic pig.


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## Sunni Man (Sep 2, 2008)

glockmail said:


> And to think I had respect for you before this, you anti-Semitic pig.


Once again, I have Nothing against the Jews or the Jewish religion. In fact, I think the Jewish people are unique and the religion is to be honored as the origional monotheistic revelation of God.

On the other hand, the Zionists who rule Israel are evil fascists who will do anything to further their cause and extend their power in the world.

I hope you can seee the difference?


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## glockmail (Sep 2, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> ....
> 
> On the other hand, the Zionists who rule Israel are evil fascists who will do anything to further their cause and extend their power in the world....


 And the Muslims?


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## TruePatriot (Sep 3, 2008)

911 / Zionism / & "The Wandering Who?"
tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/CoreStore/message/37


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## gowhite08 (Sep 5, 2008)

I don't consider myself a conspiracy theorist by any means, nor do I believe it. There's a video called "Loose Change" that does raise some interesting questions...Just google it.


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## gowhite08 (Sep 5, 2008)

Loose Change is about 2 hours long or so, but it kinda hooks you.


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## TruePatriot (Sep 5, 2008)

The Looniest Of All 911 Conspiracy Theories
rense.com/general69/statee.htm
=
The 9/11 'Official Story'?
brasschecktv.com/page/92.html


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Great "NEW" full length on-line 911 Video documentaries
vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=38564


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## Toro (Sep 5, 2008)

It was Da Jooos!


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## DiamondDave (Sep 5, 2008)

THESE ASININE CONSPIRACY THEORIES ARE  ALL COMPLETE HORSESHIT

Already debunked SO many times by even the Discovery Channel


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## Bootneck (Sep 5, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> On the other hand, the Zionists who rule Israel are evil fascists who will do anything to further their cause and extend their power in the world.
> 
> I hope you can seee the difference?



Just like the evil Islamofascists who will do anything to further their cause and extend their power in the world!

I hope you can see the similarity.


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## eots (Sep 5, 2008)

Fabled Enemies (Super High Quality, full movie) 

the proof is there but not on fox or cnn so its not real who needs the head of able dangers opinion..when we have fox

fabled enemies full - Google Video


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## dilloduck (Sep 5, 2008)

eots said:


> Fabled Enemies (Super High Quality, full movie)
> 
> the proof is there but not on fox or cnn so its not real who needs the head of able dangers opinion..when we have fox
> 
> fabled enemies full - Google Video



Give me a clue---who *isn't* part of the conspiracy ?


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## eots (Sep 5, 2008)

watch the film,,listen to the testimony of top level CIA ,FBI and military Intel and you tell me

Fabled Enemies (Super High Quality, full movie) 

http://video.google.ca/videosearch?hl=en&emb=0&aq=0&oq=fabled+enemys&q=fabled+enemies+full&src=3#


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## dilloduck (Sep 5, 2008)

eots said:


> watch the film,,listen to the testimony of top level CIA ,FBI and military Intel and you tell me
> 
> Fabled Enemies (Super High Quality, full movie)
> 
> fabled enemies full - Google Video



an hour and a half ?  no thanks.


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## eots (Sep 5, 2008)

EXACTLY..don't ask for evidence then you pathetic drone


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## dilloduck (Sep 5, 2008)

eots said:


> EXACTLY..don't ask for evidence then you pathetic drone



if y'all really want someone to buy your shit, you need to package it better. "Here--watch this million hour movie cause it proves everything. And if you don't you're a pathetic drone".


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## Sunni Man (Sep 5, 2008)

Bootneck said:


> Just like the evil Islamofascists who will do anything to further their cause and extend their power in the world!
> 
> I hope you can see the similarity.


There is NO similarity!

Where are the Islamists extending their power in the world?


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## eots (Sep 6, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> if y'all really want someone to buy your shit, you need to package it better. "Here--watch this million hour movie cause it proves everything. And if you don't you're a pathetic drone".



I am not selling anything..I am presenting a opportunity to hear the evidence and the opinions and testimony of top level intel fbi and cia personal that is not being provided through the mainstream media..if you do not wish to know
fuck ya..shut up..dont ask questions you dont want answered


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## dilloduck (Sep 6, 2008)

eots said:


> I am not selling anything..I am presenting a opportunity to hear the evidence and the opinions and testimony of top level intel fbi and cia personal that is not being provided through the mainstream media..if you do not wish to know
> fuck ya..shut up..dont ask questions you dont want answered



are you incapable of paraphrasing it so we dont have to watch what MIGHT be a ton of shit ?
Apparently you don't want to sell it that badly or don't think there is any urgent need to enlighten us.


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## eots (Sep 6, 2008)

give it 15 mins and decide for yourself...and no i am not capable of _paraphrasing _this orgy of evidence and complexity

Fabled Enemies (Super High Quality, full movie)  ©2008 Google
http://video.google.ca/videosearch?q=fabled+enemies+full&hl=en&emb=0&aq=f#


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## dilloduck (Sep 6, 2008)

eots said:


> give it 15 mins and decide for yourself...and no i am not capable of _paraphrasing _this orgy of evidence and complexity



cant be too hard to tell us who the mastermind was.


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## DiveCon (Sep 6, 2008)

glockmail said:


> And to think I had respect for you before this, you anti-Semitic pig.


same here


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## eots (Sep 6, 2008)

MR X....what difference does it make if you don't view the evidence..
elements within the White house Pakistani and Israeli intelligence planed ,implemented
the events of 911


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## DiveCon (Sep 6, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Once again, I have Nothing against the Jews or the Jewish religion. In fact, I think the Jewish people are unique and the religion is to be honored as the origional monotheistic revelation of God.
> 
> On the other hand, the Zionists who rule Israel are evil fascists who will do anything to further their cause and extend their power in the world.
> 
> I hope you can seee the difference?


gee, when has Israel cut someones head off?
yeah, we know WHO the fascists are


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## DiveCon (Sep 6, 2008)

gowhite08 said:


> Loose Change is about 2 hours long or so, but it kinda hooks you.


loose change is all lies
Screw Loose Change - Not Freakin&#39; Again edition


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## DiveCon (Sep 6, 2008)

DiamondDave said:


> THESE ASININE CONSPIRACY THEORIES ARE ALL COMPLETE HORSESHIT
> 
> Already debunked SO many times by even the Discovery Channel


shhh, the Discovery channel is IN on it


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## DiveCon (Sep 6, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Give me a clue---who *isn't* part of the conspiracy ?


HIM


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## dilloduck (Sep 6, 2008)

eots said:


> MR X....what difference does it make if you don't view the evidence..
> elements within the White house Pakistani and Israeli intelligence planed ,implemented
> the events of 911



ok---so what do we do now ?


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## DiveCon (Sep 6, 2008)

eots said:


> give it 15 mins and decide for yourself...and no i am not capable of _paraphrasing _this orgy of evidence and complexity
> 
> Fabled Enemies (Super High Quality, full movie) ©2008 Google
> fabled enemies full - Google Video


more Alex Jones BULLSHIT


how DARE an Alex Jones MORON call anyone else a "drone"
sheeesh


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## dilloduck (Sep 6, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> more Alex Jones BULLSHIT
> 
> 
> how DARE an Alex Jones MORON call anyone else a "drone"
> sheeesh



Jones lives here. I outta go look the guy up someday with a camcorder runnin !


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## Sunni Man (Sep 6, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> gee, when has Israel cut someones head off?
> yeah, we know WHO the fascists are


Israel just puts the men, women, and children into a huge open air consentration camp called Gaza.

And then bombs, shoots, and murders the unarmed people at will.

Israel makes the Nazis look like amatures when it comes to genocide and torture of civilians.


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## eots (Sep 6, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> loose change is all lies
> Screw Loose Change - Not Freakin' Again edition



your not the sharpest tool in the shed are you boy..and whats with this divecon shit.. are you suppose to be some kind of diver.. er what


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## eots (Sep 6, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> more Alex Jones BULLSHIT
> 
> 
> how DARE an Alex Jones MORON call anyone else a "drone"
> sheeesh



the words of the high level fbi,cia and able danger to name a few presented in the film stand on their own.they certainly did not come from alex jones in fact the opposite is true

Fabled Enemies (Super High Quality, full movie)  

fabled enemies full - Google Video


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## dilloduck (Sep 6, 2008)

eots said:


> the words of the high level fbi,cia and able danger to name a few presented in the film stand on their own.they certainly did not come from alex jones in fact the opposite is true
> 
> Fabled Enemies (Super High Quality, full movie)
> 
> fabled enemies full - Google Video



are they so damn secret you can't even tell me who they are ? Cmon man--enough of the 007 crap. Who was THE mastermind ?


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## DiveCon (Sep 6, 2008)

eots said:


> your not the sharpest tool in the shed are you boy..and whats with this divecon shit.. are you suppose to be some kind of diver.. er what


moron, you are someone to talk
Alex Jones is making a killing off you fools, and laughing all the way to the bank


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## DiveCon (Sep 6, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Israel just puts the men, women, and children into a huge open air consentration camp called Gaza.
> 
> And then bombs, shoots, and murders the unarmed people at will.
> 
> Israel makes the Nazis look like amatures when it comes to genocide and torture of civilians.


um, Gaza is under Palestinian control, let them deal with Gaza
dont blame Israel for what your own people do


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## eots (Sep 6, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> moron, you are someone to talk
> Alex Jones is making a killing off you fools, and laughing all the way to the bank



a man of Alex's gravitons..could make substantially more as a sell out to the mainstream,,no question...and as i said before your red herring response
Alex has no influence over the words of the fbi and cia and able danger


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## dilloduck (Sep 6, 2008)

eots said:


> a man of Alex's gravitons..could make substantially more as a sell out to the mainstream,,no question...and as i said before your red herring response
> Alex has no influence over the words of the fbi and cia and able danger



heck--even Paul Revere would at least tell us if they were coming by land or by sea ! Some revolutionary you are !


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## Sunni Man (Sep 6, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> um, Gaza is under Palestinian control, let them deal with Gaza
> dont blame Israel for what your own people do


The jets, heilocopters, and tanks that bomb and shell the innocent people in Gaza all have the Star of David painted in them.


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## eots (Sep 6, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> are they so damn secret you can't even tell me who they are ? Cmon man--enough of the 007 crap. Who was THE mastermind ?



your weird...there is not A MASTERMIND...that i know of there are groups and agency's foreign and domestic clearly involved or with prior knowledge some of whom i have already stated


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## dilloduck (Sep 6, 2008)

eots said:


> your weird...there is not A MASTERMIND...that i know of there are groups and agency's foreign and domestic clearly involved or with prior knowledge some of whom i have already stated



Of course I'm wierd---but are you trying to tell me that no person or agency knew the whole plan ?


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## eots (Sep 6, 2008)

its highly compartmentalized but certainly  there would of been those that knew the _whole_ plan and that would include the administrations  most inner circle


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## DiveCon (Sep 6, 2008)

eots said:


> its highly compartmentalized but certainly  there would of been those that knew the _whole_ plan and that would include the administrations  most inner circle


yes, and everyone is in on it, but you and your nutty buddies


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## DiveCon (Sep 6, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> The jets, heilocopters, and tanks that bomb and shell the innocent people in Gaza all have the Star of David painted in them.


well, they those "innocent" in Gaza to stop lobbing rockets into Israel


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## eots (Sep 6, 2008)

MY "NUTTY BUDDIIES"



B]Capt. Edgar Mitchell, U.S. Navy (ret), [/B]BS Industrial Management, BS Aerontautical Engineering, Doctor of Science, Aeronautics and Astronautics from MIT &#8211; Pilot and Astronaut.  Sixth man to walk on the moon (Apollo 14 mission).  Patrol bomber and attack plane pilot, U.S. Navy.  Test Pilot, Air Test and Evaluation Squadron 5 (VX-5).  Chief of Project Management Division, Navy Field Office for the Manned Orbiting Laboratory Project.  Graduated first in his class from the Aerospace Research Pilot School, and served as an instructor there.  Recipient of many awards and honors including the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the USN Distinguished Medal and three NASA Group Achievement Awards. Inducted to the Space Hall of Fame in 1979 and the Astronaut Hall of Fame in 1998.  Recipient of honorary doctorates in engineering from New Mexico State University, the University of Akron, Carnegie Mellon University, and a ScD from Embry-Riddle University.  Founder of the Institute of Noetic Sciences. 
Endorser of and proposed Commissioner of a New Investigation into 9/11 as described in the New York City Ballot Initiative 11/08: "Petition to Create a NYC Independent Commission with Subpoena Power to Conduct a Comprehensive and Fact-Driven Investigation of All Relevant Aspects of the Tragic Events of September 11, 2001 and Issue a Report. 

WHEREAS, many New York City voters believe that there remain many unanswered questions critical to establishing the truth about all relevant events leading up to, during and subsequent to the tragic attacks occurring on September 11, 2001 (&#8220;9/11&#8221, and 

WHEREAS, no prior investigation by any New York City agency or any other governmental entity has resulted in the citizens being provided with those critical answers or information necessary to establish the truth about those tragic events, ... 

An independent, temporary New York City commission (the &#8220;Commission&#8221 is hereby created to conduct a comprehensive, factdriven investigation into the events that took place on 9/11, as well as to thoroughly examine related events before and after the attacks, including any activities attempting to hide, cover up, impede or obstruct any investigation into these 9/11 events, following wherever the facts may lead. The Commission shall publish one or more reports of their findings." 


Website: Ed Mitchell 


*Lt. Col. Guy S. Razer, MS Aeronautical Science, U.S. Air Force (*ret) &#8211; Retired U.S. Air Force command fighter pilot.  Former instructor; U.S. Air Force Fighter Weapons School and NATO&#8217;s Tactical Leadership Program.  As an Air Force weapons effects expert was responsible for wartime tasking of most appropriate aircraft/munition for target destruction to include steel and concrete superstructures.  Former aeronautical structures flight test engineer with McDonnell Douglas, working on advanced DC-9 autopilot systems and DC-10 flight envelope expansion stress and flutter analysis.  Tactical aircraft flown: General Dynamics F-111 Aardvark fighter/bomber, McDonnell Douglas F-15E Strike Eagle, General Dynamics / Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon, McDonnell Douglas F-18 Hornet, Boeing B-1 Bomber, MiG-29 (Russian fighter), and Su-22 (Russian fighter/bomber).  3,000+ fighter hours.  Combat time over Iraq.  20-year Air Force career. 
Statement to this website 3/25/07: "After 4+ years of research since retirement in 2002, I am 100% convinced that the attacks of September 11, 2001 were planned, organized, and committed by treasonous perpetrators that have infiltrated the highest levels of our government.  It is now time to take our country back. 

The "collapse" of WTC Building 7 shows beyond any doubt that the demolitions were pre-planned.  There is simply no way to demolish a 47-story building (on fire) over a coffee break.  It is also impossible to report the building&#8217;s collapse before it happened, as BBC News did, unless it was pre-planned.  Further damning evidence is Larry Silverstein's video taped confession in which he states "they made that decision to pull [WTC 7] and we watched the building collapse." [Editor's note: WTC Building 7 was 610 feet tall, 47 stories.  It would have been the tallest building in 33 states.  Although it was not hit by an airplane, it completely collapsed into a pile of rubble in less than 7 seconds at 5:20 p.m. on 9/11, seven hours after the collapses of the Twin Towers.  However, no mention of its collapse appears in the 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks."  Watch the collapse video here.  And six years after 9/11, the Federal government has yet to publish its promised final report that explains the cause of its collapse.] 

We cannot let the pursuit of justice fail.  Those of us in the military took an oath to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic".  Just because we have retired does not make that oath invalid, so it is not just our responsibility, it is our duty to expose the real perpetrators of 9/11 and bring them to justice, no matter how hard it is, how long it takes, or how much we have to suffer to do it. 

We owe it to those who have gone before us who executed that same oath, and who are doing the same thing in Iraq and Afghanistan right now.  Those of us who joined the military and faithfully executed orders that were given us had to trust our leaders.  The violation and abuse of that trust is not only heinous, but ultimately the most accurate definition of treason!" 



*
Lt. Col. Robert Bowman, PhD *

Lt. Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) &#8211; Director of Advanced Space Programs Development under Presidents Ford and Carter.  U.S. Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. (PhD in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering, Cal Tech).   Former Head of the Department of Aeronautical Engineering and Assistant Dean at the U.S. Air Force Institute of Technology.  22-year Air Force career.  Also taught Mathematics and English at the University of Southern California, the University of Maryland, and Phillips University. 
Video 9/11/04: "A lot of these pieces of information, taken together, prove that the official story, the official conspiracy theory of 9/11 is a bunch of hogwash.  It&#8217;s impossible. &#8230; There&#8217;s a second group of facts having to do with the cover up. &#8230; Taken together these things prove that high levels of our government don&#8217;t want us to know what happened and who&#8217;s responsible.&#8230; 

Who gained from 9/11?  Who covered up crucial information about 9/11?  And who put out the patently false stories about 9/11 in the first place?  When you take those three things together, I think the case is pretty clear that it&#8217;s highly placed individuals in the administration with all roads passing through Dick Cheney. 

I think the very kindest thing that we can say about George W. Bush and all the people in the U.S. Government that have been involved in this massive cover-up, the very kindest thing we can say is that they were aware of impending attacks and let them happen.  Now some people will say that&#8217;s much too kind, however even that is high treason and conspiracy to commit murder."  http://video.go 


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11:     
"We want truthful answers to question. &#8230;  As Americans of conscience, we ask for four things: 
An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer 
Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings. 
Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence. 
The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry." http://www.911truth.org/article 

*Dwain Deets, MS Physics, MS Eng *&#8211; Former Director, Aerospace Projects, NASA Dryden Flight Research Center.  Before this appointment, he served as Director, Research Engineering Division at Dryden.  Recipient of the NASA Exceptional Service Award and the Presidential Meritorious Rank Award in the Senior Executive Service (1988).  Selected presenter of the Wright Brothers Lectureship in Aeronautics, a distinguished speaking engagement sponsored by the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) (1986).  Included in "Who's Who in Science and Engineering" 1993 - 2000.  Former Chairman of the Aerospace Control and Guidance Systems Committee of the Society of Automotive Engineers.  Former Member, AIAA Committee on Society and Aerospace Technology.  37 year NASA career. 
Statement in support of Architects and Engineers petition:
"The many visual images (massive structural members being hurled horizontally, huge pyroclastic clouds, etc.) leave no doubt in my mind explosives were involved [in the destruction of the World Trade Center]."  AE911Truth 


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11, signed by more than 400 Architects and Engineers: 

"On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and affiliates  hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 - specifically the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7.  We believe that there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore that the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened and must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that may have been the actual cause behind the destruction of the World Trade Center Towers and WTC Building 7." Sign the Petition 

Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report


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## DiveCon (Sep 6, 2008)

well, Ed Mitchell doesnt have any of that on that link you posted
most likely you got it from some moronic troofer site and he NEVER said any such thing
you morons are notorious liars


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## Bootneck (Sep 6, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> There is NO similarity!
> 
> Where are the Islamists extending their power in the world?



Well, for once I have to agree with you. No, there is NO similarity between the Israelis and the Islamofascists. The Islamofascists are a hundred times worse! They turn Islam into a global totalitarian ideology disguised as a religion.

Where are Islamists extending their power in the world? Are you blind and deaf as well as pig ignorant, or is it the way of Islam to deny the bleeding obvious?

Aside from pursuing mass murder plots against innocent populations in every corner of the planet, Islamofascists have one other thing in common: They credit their motivation and success to religion. This distinguishes Islamic terrorism from mere crime and it is part of what makes Islam so very different from other religions.  

Let's take these quotes from leading Islamofascists. They adequately illustrate their ambitions:


*Algeria*

_But the coming Islamic caliphate country will not rise except at the hands of the fighting sect who raises the flag of Allah and Jihad._

Statement from the Salafi terrorist group, one of several fundamentalist cells responsible for the slaughter of 150,000 men women and children in the 1990s.

_"Our Jihad consists of killing and dispersing all those who fight against Allah and his Prophet."

"Throat-slitting and murder until the power is Allah's!"_

Both quotes from leaders of the Armed Islamic Group (GIA).  The first spoken by Sid Ahmed Mourad, the second from Abdelkader Hattab.

*Egypt*

_"Allah is our objective, the Quran is our Constitution, the Prophet is our leader, Jihad is our way, and death for the sake of Allah is the highest of our aspirations."_

Credo of the Muslim Brotherhood, which has spawned attacks and numerous subsidiary terrorist organizations

*India*

_Democracy is among the menaces we inherited from an alien government.  It is part of the system we are fighting against It is not possible to work within a democracy and establish an Islamic system If Allah gives us a chance, we will try to bring in the pure concept of an Islamic Caliphate.'' 

"The notion of the sovereignty of the people is anti-Islamic. Only Allah is sovereign.'' _

Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, the leader of the  Lashkar-e-Toiba terrorist organization.


_Yes!  We - the terrorists of India  THE INDIAN MUJAHIDEEN, - the militia of Islam whose each and every Mujahid belongs to this very soil of India - have returned, to execute the compulsion of Allah:


"Fight them (the disbelievers), Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and give you victory over them and He will heal the hearts of those who believe." (Qur'an 9:14).
Here we begin ... raising the illustrious banner of Jihad against the Hindus and all those who fight and resist us...

All Praise and Glory be to Allah, Who Alone Helps His slaves, Who Alone Fulfils His Promise, and Who Alone Defeats the enemy....

While hoping for the Help and Victory from Allah we declare that such and more severe attacks shall continue irrespective of what the blamers blame us for.

The hosts (of the Kafir) will all be routed and will turn and flee. [Quran 54: 45].

We ask Allah to forgive us and Have Mercy on us and Aid us to conquer the unbelievers and Guide us to raise His Word and degrade His enemies with His Will Alone. 
And peace be upon His Messenger, and all those who follow the Guidance._

The Indian Mujahideen, claiming credit for a brutal series of bombings that left dozens of civilians dead and hundreds more in agony.

*Iran*

_Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war.   Those who say this are witless. Islam says: 'Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter their armies.'_

The Ayatollah Khomeini 

*Indonesia* 

_Keep on fighting for the application of Islamic law. If this state and nation wants to become great, safe, and at peace then it has to return to Islam one hundred percent without bargaining. If not, then it will be destroyed._

Abu Bakar Bashir, spiritual leader of the Indonesian Mujahideen 

*Jordan*

_Terrorism is a badge of honour on our chests until Judgement Day.  In the name of Allah, were pursuing the path of jihad until we uproot you, exterminate your state until the rule of the king vanishes.  We follow the steps of the Prophet (Muhammad)... Allah is our Lord; you have none."_

Hassan al-Smeik, leader of the cell that plotted a chemical weapons attack intended to kill 80,000 Jordanians

*Pakistan*

_"I will go back to wage jihad. I pray Allah fulfils my desire of embracing martyrdom next time,"_

Hizbul Mujahideen cadre, when asked why he kills the Indian people

_"With regard to Osama and Al-Zawahiri, I never met them, but I have the utmost love and respect for them, because of their enmity towards the Jews and the Christians. The Muslims must be harsh towards the infidels and compassionate among themselves. These two men reflect this Koranic verse... We place our trust in Allah. Soon, we will witness the miracles of Jihad."_

By'atullah Mahsoud, the Emir of the Pakistani Taliban

*The Philippines*

_We may be small in number, but we have plenty fighting with us--the angels and the hand of Allah.  We dream of an entire Islamic world, and we will achieve it. Allah is with us."_

Abu Sayyaf terrorist group leader, Khadaffy Janjalani, responsible for church bombings and beheadings.


*Saudi Arabia*

_"One of the greatest virtues in Islam is jihad for the sake of God. Ramadan is the month of jihad and battles, and most Muslim battles took place during the blessed month. This is your season, o people of jihad. Jihad during the fasting month of Ramadan has a great taste -- for what better way to break your fast than to kill infidels and relish the sound of the weeping of the despicable tyrants and infidels."_

Saudi-based terrorist magazine, al-Jihad

*Somalia*

_"And your brothers of the Mujahideen Movement are on their way, going forth in Jihad against the occupiers and disbelievers so that the word of Allah is the highest and there is no more fitnah on earth and the religion is solely for Allah."_

Deadly Somali terrorist group calling itself, Youth Islamic Movement

*Spain*

_"Allah, may he be praised, said Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from where they have driven you out; for internal strife [Fitna] is worse than killing."_

The Quranic verse quoted by the Abu Hafs Al-Masri Brigades in explaining the murder of 202 Madrid train commuters

*Sudan*

_"To Fight and Conquer.  Death in the name of Allah."_

The unit logo of the Janjaweed militia, responsible for cleansing Darfur of African people along with the rape of thousands of women.

*Thailand*

_.Martyrs, how glorious we will be if we fall as warriors of our land. When Martyrs are killed, they are not dead but alive next to Allah. They will watch and listen to every piece of news to see if their children will follow in their footsteps._

Berjihad di Pattani, calls for a holy war to liberate Pattani from colonists.

*Turkey*

_The Koran says: Fight them until evil disappears and all religion becomes Allah's.'  The suicide activists who blow themselves up are carrying out the Koran's commandment." _

Ali Osman Zor, Great East Islamic Raiders Front terrorist organization


*United Kingdom*

_Our religion is Islam - obedience to the one true God, Allah, and following the footsteps of the final prophet and messenger Muhammad... This is how our ethical stances are dictated. _

Mohammad Sidique Khan, London subway bomber, explaining his motives on a pre-recorded video tape.

*United States*

_"I did not act out of hatred for Americans, but love for Allah instead.  I live only to serve Allah by obeying all of Allahs commandments, of which I am aware by reading and learning the contents of the Koran._

Mohammed Reza Taheri-Azar, explaining reasons for premeditating and attempting to murder citizens and residents of the United States of America.  He also quoted 141 verses from the Qur'an.

*Uzbekistan*

_"We have declared a jihad to create a religious government in Uzbekistan_

Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan leader, Tahir Yuldeshev


----------



## Sunni Man (Sep 6, 2008)

There are over one Billion muslims in the world.

You take the quotes of a few self proclaimed leaders of  movements with a very small number of followers, and act like they speak for all Muslims.

That would be like, if I posted the rantings of the leaders of the the KKK. Aryan Nation, American Nazis, and other various radical Christian skin head groups.

And then stated that they speak for all Christians in America.


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## Bootneck (Sep 6, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> There are over one Billion muslims in the world.
> 
> You take the quotes of a few self proclaimed leaders of  movements with a very small number of followers, and act like they speak for all Muslims.
> 
> ...



I'm referring to ISLAMOFASCISTS aka RADICALS aka EXTREMISTS. I think you realise this, but in your usual way, you deflect to avoid the issue.

Now be a good lad and FOXTROT OSCAR!


----------



## Sunni Man (Sep 6, 2008)

Bootneck said:


> I'm referring to ISLAMOFASCISTS aka RADICALS aka EXTREMISTS. I think you realise this, but in your usual way, you deflect to avoid the issue.


OK then, what was you point?


----------



## Bootneck (Sep 6, 2008)

You asked where Islamists were extending their powers in the world. I told you!


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## Sunni Man (Sep 6, 2008)

Bootneck said:


> You asked where Islamists were extending their powers in the world. I told you!


Thanks for the info. I will file it under the trivia section.


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## editec (Sep 6, 2008)

> The terrorists behaved in such a way to attract attention. And as practicing Muslims, they were in a strip-tease bar, and, drunken, stuck dollar bills into the panty of the dancer.


 
On those rare occassions when I've been involved with such activities, I know the thought of suicidally flying a plane into a building the next day might have seemed like a good idea to me, too.

Talk about things designed to make one want to end Western civilization?

Strip bars are definitely on my list.

Strip joints and _Entertainment Tonight_  make two good cases for the destruction of our American society on behalf of worldwide civilization.


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## Sunni Man (Sep 6, 2008)

Quote "The terrorists behaved in such a way to attract attention. And as practicing Muslims, they were in a strip-tease bar, and, drunken, stuck dollar bills into the panty of the dancer". 


Says who? The government?

Now that's a real credible source!!


----------



## Care4all (Sep 6, 2008)

Bootneck said:


> Well, for once I have to agree with you. No, there is NO similarity between the Israelis and the Islamofascists. The Islamofascists are a hundred times worse! They turn Islam into a global totalitarian ideology disguised as a religion.
> 
> Where are Islamists extending their power in the world? Are you blind and deaf as well as pig ignorant, or is it the way of Islam to deny the bleeding obvious?
> 
> ...



ummmmm......i think sunni man might have been OWNED on this one....


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## dilloduck (Sep 6, 2008)

eots said:


> its highly compartmentalized but certainly  there would of been those that knew the _whole_ plan and that would include the administrations  most inner circle



What do you mean  "would have been" ?  You claim to know !  Who are they ?
Who in this "inner circle" knew ?


----------



## Care4all (Sep 6, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> What do you mean  "would have been" ?  You claim to know !  Who are they ?
> Who in this "inner circle" knew ?



Well, IF THIS WERE TRUE, and that's a big IF, I doubt the President knew....just like Kennedy did not know about operation Northwoods/Mongoose until that last second....

probably an undercover CIA/or defense dept operation, within an ignorant CIA population/organization....????  in other words, very few would know...Cheney or Rumsfeld might have, if this were true, or he might not have.....?
Hard to tell when you examine Operation Northwoods....



> Operation Northwoods
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods *
> ...



in other words, as IMPOSSIBLE this all seems for 9/11, when reading about things in the past that our government has considered like operation northwoods and operation Mongoose, it leaves an opening for conspiracy theories like this one to ferment....imo.

Care


----------



## dilloduck (Sep 6, 2008)

Care4all said:


> Well, IF THIS WERE TRUE, and that's a big IF, I doubt the President knew....just like Kennedy did not know about operation Northwoods/Mongoose until that last second....
> 
> probably an undercover CIA/or defense dept operation, within an ignorant CIA population/organization....????  in other words, very few would know...Cheney or Rumsfeld might have, if this were true, or he might not have.....?
> Hard to tell when you examine Operation Northwoods....
> ...



yes---unfortunately  the conspiracy theorists can always come up with something to prove that something MIGHT be possible. We will be listen to this crap from the paranoids for decades.


----------



## eots (Sep 6, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> What do you mean  "would have been" ?  You claim to know !  Who are they ?
> Who in this "inner circle" knew ?



if your not in the know enough to know who would be in the white house inner circle ...why even bother
and without discloser of all evidence to determine the finer details is not possible,,but there is ample evidence of prior knowledge and involvement of Israeli intelligence ,Pakistan and elements within our government


Col. Ronald D. Ray

Col. Ronald D. Ray, U.S. Marine Corps (ret) &#8211; Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense during the Reagan Administration and a highly decorated Vietnam veteran (two Silver Stars, a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart).  Appointed by President George H.W. Bush to serve on the American Battle Monuments Commission (1990 - 1994), and on the 1992 Presidential Commission on the Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces.  Military Historian and Deputy Director of Field Operations for the U.S. Marine Corps Historical Center, Washington, D.C. 1990 - 1994. 

Article 7/1/06: "The former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense under the Reagan Administration and a highly decorated Vietnam veteran and Colonel has gone on the record to voice his doubts about the official story of 9/11 - calling it &#8216;the dog that doesn't hunt.&#8217;  &#8216;I'm astounded that the conspiracy theory advanced by the administration could in fact be true and the evidence does not seem to suggest that's accurate,&#8217; he said." http://www.propagandamatrix.com 





Major Scott Ritter 

Major Scott Ritter, U.S. Marine Corps &#8211; Former Marine Corps Intelligence Officer and Chief Weapons Inspector for the United Nations Special Commission in Iraq 1991 - 1998. 

Video 1/19/08:  Regarding the events of 9/11  "You articulated the one argument that I support whole-heartedly, which is the absolute requirement to find out what happened; that the 9/11 Commission's Report is inadequate to the task.  And that until they answer all the questions, you will leave open, at least in the mind of certain individuals, the possibility of collusion, the possibility of conspiracy ... 

We have an absolute requirement to know what happened on 9/11.  And no stone should be left unturned.  And the 9/11 Commission Report was not up to the task.  And there must be a re-opening of the investigation, so that we the people of the United States know what occurred on that horrific day 


Capt. Eric H. May, U.S. Army (ret) &#8211; Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer. Former inspector and interpreter for the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty team. 

Essay 9/11 and Non-investigation: "As a former Army officer, my tendency immediately after 911 was to rally 'round the colors and defend the country against what I then thought was an insidious, malicious all-Arab entity called Al-Qaida.  In fact, in April of 2002, I attempted to reactivate my then-retired commission to return to serve my country in its time of peril. ... 

Now I view the 911 event as Professor David Griffin, author of The New Pearl Harbor, views it: as a matter that implies either 

A)  passive participation by the Bush White House through a deliberate stand-down of proper defense procedures that (if followed) would have led US air assets to a quick identification and confrontation of the passenger aircraft that impacted WTC 1 and WTC 2, or worse ... 

B) active execution of a plot by rogue elements of government, starting with the White House itself, in creating a spectacle of destruction that would lead the United States into an invasion of the Middle East ..."  http://mujca.com/captain.htm 


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11:     
"We want truthful answers to question. &#8230;  As Americans of conscience, we ask for four things: 
An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer 
Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings. 
Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence. 
The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry." http://www.911truth.org/article 

http://patriotsquestion911.com/


----------



## dilloduck (Sep 6, 2008)

eots said:


> if your not in the know enough to know who would be in the white house inner circle ...why even bother



that's what I thought---you don't really care. Unless the spin and the magic of the big screen is used, you can't explain your theory. Hell you can't even give us names


----------



## eots (Sep 6, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> that's what I thought---you don't really care. Unless the spin and the magic of the big screen is used, you can't explain your theory. Hell you can't even give us names



don't pretend you have any thoughts beyond denial...dildofuck


----------



## dilloduck (Sep 6, 2008)

eots said:


> don't pretend you have any thoughts beyond denial...dildofuck



yes sir Mr. Eots !


----------



## eots (Sep 6, 2008)

that's better....now go watch the film


----------



## dilloduck (Sep 6, 2008)

eots said:


> that's better....now go watch the film



not until you tell us about it.


----------



## eots (Sep 6, 2008)

The film does not try to invent an alternative scenario behind what really happened on 9/11, it expertly demolishes the official version by concentrating on how Bin Laden&#8217;s network was protected every step of the way by higher-ups and the hijackers issued visas while good FBI agents like Robert Wright attempted to penetrate the wider plot but were blocked from doing so.


The treatment of Anthony Shaffer, who attempted to inform the 9/11 Commission about Able Danger, an intelligence program that identified the hijackers before 9/11, highlights precisely why the Commission was a set-up from the very beginning. Shaffer and his team were gagged and slandered and the vital information they had passed on was ignored and buried.



The murky and mysterious connections of Israeli citizens, who were later connected to gargantuan spy rings, detained on 9/11 and their links to the attacks are then explored in detail, including the strange reports of truck bombs and bombs planted on the George Washington Bridge, aspects of 9/11 that are key yet have been largely sidelined by previous 9/11 truth films.

The evidence presented in the movie painfully underscores the damage that the United States&#8217; alliance with Israel is proliferating, highlighted nowhere more starkly than Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu&#8217;s bold admission that the 9/11 attacks were good for Israel and continue to benefit the Zionist state.

&#8220;9/11 was an international intelligence operation,&#8221; avers producer Jason Bermas, &#8220;that included role players within our own government as well as the governments of Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Israel. Each played a compartmentalized role in order to create a climate of fear and confusion.&#8221; Fabled Enemies painstakingly delves into known and little known minutiae of this international intelligence operation to provide an overview of what is certainly the largest and most audacious false flag attack in American history.



Other aspects of events on that day which even seasoned 9/11 truthers might be unaware of are also explored, including the strange case of Flight 23, a transcontinental flight that raised red flags because of Middle Eastern passengers who were behaving oddly and were asked to leave the plane before take-off. When they refused and armed police were sent to deal with the situation, the men simply vanished, strongly suggesting they had the support of people with access to secure areas of the airport and runway, a pattern observed in the other hijackings.

The film also tackles in depth the numerous wargames that took place which coincided with the 9/11 attacks, along with the threat to Air Force One and questions how the terrorists could have obtained secure codes and security procedures for a raft of sensitive U.S. government agencies without help from the inside.

Finally, the film explores the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 and the possible motives for why this building had to be destroyed on 9/11, as well as the suspicious anthrax attacks and their connections to the U.S. government and military institutions.



In summary, Jason Bermas has produced a 9/11 film to rank up there with the very best. The strength of the evidence presented stands alone and conclusively debunks the official version of 9/11 as nothing more than a paper-thin work of fiction. The depth of information presented in Fabled Enemies is enough to sway even a hardened skeptic, and the movie should be held up as a shining beacon and the very best that the 9/11 truth movement has to offer.
Alex Jones&#8217; Prison Planet.com Fabled Enemies: Spy Thriller Exposes Vast Intelligence Plot Behind 9/11


----------



## dilloduck (Sep 6, 2008)

eots said:


> The film does not try to invent an alternative scenario behind what really happened on 9/11, it expertly demolishes the official version by concentrating on how Bin Ladens network was protected every step of the way by higher-ups and the hijackers issued visas while good FBI agents like Robert Wright attempted to penetrate the wider plot but were blocked from doing so.
> 
> 
> The treatment of Anthony Shaffer, who attempted to inform the 9/11 Commission about Able Danger, an intelligence program that identified the hijackers before 9/11, highlights precisely why the Commission was a set-up from the very beginning. Shaffer and his team were gagged and slandered and the vital information they had passed on was ignored and buried.
> ...



That's a review from some dude a prison planet ! WHO DID IT IF NOT BIN LADEN ?
Thats all I need to know.


----------



## DiveCon (Sep 6, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> not until you tell us about it.


all you really need to know is its done by Alex Jones


----------



## DiveCon (Sep 6, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> That's a review from some dude a prison planet ! WHO DID IT IF NOT BIN LADEN ?
> Thats all I need to know.


oh wow, you GOTTA see it now, a film done BY alex jones, and reviewed by an alex jones peon


 you cant make up stuff this funny


----------



## eots (Sep 6, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> That's a review from some dude a prison planet ! WHO DID IT IF NOT BIN LADEN ?
> Thats all I need to know.



Bush chenney rumsfeild..on the domestic part of the operation..along with operatives in Pakistan and Israeli intelegence and the bin laden family


----------



## eots (Sep 6, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> oh wow, you GOTTA see it now, a film done BY alex jones, and reviewed by an alex jones peon
> 
> 
> you cant make up stuff this funny



again the words of the* top level fbi ,,cia and Able danger* are *their words *the *facts are the facts...*regardless of who  compiles the into a film


----------



## DiveCon (Sep 6, 2008)

eots said:


> again the words of the* top level fbi ,,cia and Able danger* are *their words *the *facts are the facts...*regardless of who compiles the into a film


Able danger did not show WE did it
it showed that the Gorelick wall prevented the different agencies from informing eachother of what they knew to be able to actually respond
that is why they had a major shake up in the way info was handled

and having one alex jones peon claim that it did doesnt make it the truth
i refuse to watch and waste any time on the bullshit alex jones does


----------



## eots (Sep 7, 2008)

able danger 
able danger - Google Video

is that the 30 sec sound bite you heard on fox?


----------



## DiveCon (Sep 7, 2008)

eots said:


> able danger
> able danger - Google Video
> 
> is that the 30 sec sound bite you heard on fox?


OH BROTHER

you're using a stupid movie when the reports on able danger that actual op has already been released and the conclution was that the Gorelick wall prevented the sharing of info between military and civilian agencies

you are a complete and total moron


----------



## eots (Sep 7, 2008)

The _reports _???,,and what _reports_ do you speak of ??..fox news ?...this short film features the testimony of those most involved..and to you That'stupid ?


----------



## dilloduck (Sep 7, 2008)

eots said:


> The _reports _???,,and what _reports_ do you speak of ??..fox news ?...this short film features the testimony of those most involved..and to you That'stupid ?



Is your point that another independent investigation should be done ?


----------



## DiveCon (Sep 7, 2008)

eots said:


> The _reports _???,,and what _reports_ do you speak of ??..fox news ?...this short film features the testimony of those most involved..and to you That'stupid ?


do you even watch the shit you link to?
it was like a movie trailer, it had ZERO interviews


----------



## eots (Sep 7, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> do you even watch the shit you link to?
> it was like a movie trailer, it had ZERO interviews



it  had *testimony*..not interviews  ,,the people involved are not in a legal position to grant interviews


----------



## DiveCon (Sep 7, 2008)

eots said:


> it  had *testimony*..not interviews  ,,the people involved are not in a legal position to grant interviews


it had no such thing
it was a STUPID MOVIE TRAILER
did you even watch it yourself?


----------



## KSigMason (Sep 8, 2008)

I believe South Park did a great episode on this.


----------



## strollingbones (Sep 9, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Once again, I have Nothing against the Jews or the Jewish religion. In fact, I think the Jewish people are unique and the religion is to be honored as the origional monotheistic revelation of God.
> 
> On the other hand, the Zionists who rule Israel are evil fascists who will do anything to further their cause and extend their power in the world.
> 
> I hope you can seee the difference?




back up the short bus...in another post you said...all jews were zionists and all zionists were jews.....

dont think people dont remember your prior comments....

meanwhile back at the reality ranch.


----------



## strollingbones (Sep 9, 2008)

humpty dumpty was pushed


----------



## Paulie (Sep 9, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Is your point that another independent investigation should be done ?



I will honestly say I'd favor one, myself.  But I wouldn't hold my breath on it being complete and transparent.  Many aspects were missed or ignored in the original one, and I'd say in the least, that constitutes a grave injustice to those who personally sustained a loss of any kind on that day, not to mention the rest of the country.


----------



## Modbert (Sep 9, 2008)

Paulitics said:


> I will honestly say I'd favor one, myself.  But I wouldn't hold my breath on it being complete and transparent.  Many aspects were missed or ignored in the original one, and I'd say in the least, that constitutes a grave injustice to those who personally sustained a loss of any kind on that day, not to mention the rest of the country.





Another point to those saying that mainstream TV channels like History Channel or magazines have debunked these theories.

Do you HONESTLY believe that any company in the mainstream could out right say that Bush did 9/11 or he had full knowledge that it was going to occur? Or anything along the lines of that?

Personally, I have my own theory as to what happened on 9/11. However, to dismiss any conspiracies about 9/11 because the mainstream media tells us is BS.

Though I must admit I find it funny when said people say "Believe the media on this" but everything else they say is BS.


----------



## DiveCon (Sep 9, 2008)

Robert_Santurri said:


> Another point to those saying that mainstream TV channels like History Channel or magazines have debunked these theories.
> 
> Do you HONESTLY believe that any company in the mainstream could out right say that Bush did 9/11 or he had full knowledge that it was going to occur? Or anything along the lines of that?
> 
> ...


um, who is believing the media?
i'd say it was believing science


----------



## Modbert (Sep 9, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> um, who is believing the media?
> i'd say it was believing science



Science eh?

Science in this case can be twisted to prove that 9/11 was a conspiracy just as easily as it can be it wasn't.


----------



## DiveCon (Sep 9, 2008)

Robert_Santurri said:


> Science eh?
> 
> Science in this case can be twisted to prove that 9/11 was a conspiracy just as easily as it can be it wasn't.




REALLY?!?!?!?


----------



## eots (Sep 9, 2008)

you belive popular mechanics propaganda ....not science ?



David L. Griscom, PhD &#8211; Research physicist, retired in 2001 from Naval Research Laboratory (NRL) in Washington, DC, after 33 years service.  Fellow of the American Physical Society.  Fulbright-García Robles Fellow at Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México in Mexico City (1997).  Visiting professorships of research at the Universities of Paris and Saint-Etienne, France, and Tokyo Institute of Technology (2000 - 2003).  Adjunct Professor of Materials Science and Engineering, University of Arizona (2004 - 2005).  Winner of the 1993 N.F. Mott Award sponsored by the Journal of Non-Crystalline Solids, the 1995 Otto Schott Award offered by the Carl-Zeiss-Stiftung (Germany), a 1996 Outstanding Graduate School Alumnus Award at Brown University, and the 1997 Sigma Xi Pure Science Award at NRL. Principal author of 109 of his 185 published works, a body of work which is highly cited by his peers.  Officially credited with largest number of papers (5) by any author on list of 100 most cited articles authored at NRL between 1973 and 1988. 
Personal blog 1/5/07: "David Ray Griffin has web-published a splendid, highly footnoted account of The Destruction of the World Trade Center: Why the Official Account Cannot Be True:  This scholarly work, rich in eyewitness accounts, includes 11 separate pieces of evidence that the World Trade Center towers 1, 2 [each 1300+ feet tall, 110 stories], and 7 were brought down by explosives.  [Editor's note: WTC Building 7 was 610 feet tall, 47 stories.  It would have been the tallest building in 33 states.  Although it was not hit by an airplane, it completely collapsed into a pile of rubble in less than 7 seconds at 5:20 p.m. on 9/11, seven hours after the collapses of the Twin Towers.  However, no mention of its collapse appears in the 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks."  Watch the collapse video here.  And six years after 9/11, the Federal government has yet to publish its promised final report that explains the cause of its collapse.]

... I implore my fellow physicists and engineers who may have the time, expertise, and (ideally) supercomputer access to get to work on the physics of the World Trade Center collapses and publish their findings in refereed journals like, say, the Journal of Applied Physics. 

The issue of knowing who was really behind the 9/11 attacks is of paramount importance to the future of our country, because the "official" assumption that it was the work of 19 Arab amateurs (1) does not match the available facts and (2) has led directly to the deplorable Patriot Act, the illegal Iraq war, NSA spying on ordinary Americans, repudiation of the Geneva Conventions, and the repeal of habeas corpus (a fundamental point of law that has been with us since the signing of the Magna Carta in 1215). 

Surely these Orwellian consequences of public ignorance constitute more than sufficient motivation for any patriotic American physicist or engineer to join the search for 9/11 Truth!" http://impactglassman 


Member: Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice   Association Statement: "Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice is a non-partisan organization consisting of independent researchers and activists engaged in uncovering the true nature of the September 11, 2001 attacks." 


Bio: Home


Dwain Deets, MS Physics, MS Eng &#8211; Former Director, Aerospace Projects, NASA Dryden Flight Research Center.  Before this appointment, he served as Director, Research Engineering Division at Dryden.  Recipient of the NASA Exceptional Service Award and the Presidential Meritorious Rank Award in the Senior Executive Service (1988).  Selected presenter of the Wright Brothers Lectureship in Aeronautics, a distinguished speaking engagement sponsored by the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) (1986).  Included in "Who's Who in Science and Engineering" 1993 - 2000.  Former Chairman of the Aerospace Control and Guidance Systems Committee of the Society of Automotive Engineers.  Former Member, AIAA Committee on Society and Aerospace Technology.  37 year NASA career. 
Statement in support of Architects and Engineers petition:
"The many visual images (massive structural members being hurled horizontally, huge pyroclastic clouds, etc.) leave no doubt in my mind explosives were involved [in the destruction of the World Trade Center]."  AE911Truth 


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11, signed by more than 400 Architects and Engineers: 

"On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and affiliates  hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 - specifically the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7.  We believe that there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore that the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened and must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that may have been the actual cause behind the destruction of the World Trade Center Towers and WTC Building 7." Sign the Petition 


Editor's note: WTC Building 7 was 610 feet tall, 47 stories.  It would have been the tallest building in 33 states.  Although it was not hit by an airplane, it completely collapsed into a pile of rubble in less than 7 seconds at 5:20 p.m. on 9/11, seven hours after the collapses of the Twin Towers.  However, no mention of its collapse appears in the 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks."  Watch the collapse video here.  And six years after 9/11, the Federal government has yet to publish its promised final report that explains the cause of its collapse. 


Bio: NASA - Dryden Flight Research Center 


Larry L. Erickson, BS Aeronautical Eng, MS Aeronautical Eng, PhD Eng Mechanics &#8211; Retired NASA Aerospace Engineer and Research Scientist.  Conducted research in the fields of structural dynamics, aerodynamics, aeroelasticity and flutter.  Recipient of NASA's Aerodynamics Division Researcher-of-the-Year Award.  33-year NASA career.  Member, American Institute of Aeronautics & Astronautics.  Instructor, Physics and Aerospace Engineering, California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo 1998 - present.  Author and co-author of several scientific papers on aerodynamic analysis.  Contributing author to Applied Computational Aerodynamics (1990). 
Statement in support of Architects and Engineers petition:
"Serious technical investigations by experts seem to be lacking from the official explanations."  AE911Truth 


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11, signed by more than 400 Architects and Engineers: 

"On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and affiliates  hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 - specifically the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7.  We believe that there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore that the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened and must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that may have been the actual cause behind the destruction of the World Trade Center Towers and WTC Building 7." Sign the Petition 


Editor's note: WTC Building 7 was 610 feet tall, 47 stories.  It would have been the tallest building in 33 states.  Although it was not hit by an airplane, it completely collapsed into a pile of rubble in less than 7 seconds at 5:20 p.m. on 9/11, seven hours after the collapses of the Twin Towers.  However, no mention of its collapse appears in the 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks."  Watch the collapse video here.  And six years after 9/11, the Federal government has yet to publish its promised final report that explains the cause of its collapse. 


Bogdan Dzakovic &#8211; Witness before the 9/11 Commission.  14-year Counter-terrorism expert in the Security Division of the Federal Aviation Administration. Team Leader of the FAA's Red (Terrorism) Team, which conducted undercover tests on airport security through simulated terrorist attacks.  Former Team Leader in the Federal Air Marshal program.  Former Coast Guard officer.

Video transcript 8/21/05 : Regarding the 9/11 Commission "The best I could say about it is they really botched the job by not really going into the real failures. &#8230; At worst, I think the 9/11 Commission Report is treasonous."  Home - On Native Soil 


Signatory of Petition to Release Information Pertaining to 9/11 10/5/06: "We, the undersigned, demand the immediate declassification and release of: 
all transcripts and documents relating to the July 10, 2001 meeting that took place between former CIA Director George Tenet and then National Security Advisor, Condoleezza Rice. It has been alleged that this urgent and out-of-the-ordinary meeting was called to discuss the increasingly dire warnings of an imminent al Qaeda attack within the U.S. ... 
the redacted 28 pages of the Joint Inquiry Into The Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001 (JICI), and 
the CIA Inspector General&#8217;s report, CIA Accountability With Respect To The 9/11 Attacks 
The disastrous nature of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks warrant the release of all of this information so that the American public may learn what its government did or did not do to protect them. Had this nation been properly warned of the looming and imminent terrorist threat, life saving choices could have been made that day." Public's Right To Know - Declassification and Release of Documents Petition



Bio: The Aviation Nation


----------



## eots (Sep 9, 2008)

you belive popular mechanics propaganda ....not science ?



*David L. Griscom, PhD &#8211; Research physicist*, retired in 2001 from Naval Research Laboratory (NRL) in Washington, DC, after 33 years service.  Fellow of the American Physical Society.  Fulbright-García Robles Fellow at Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México in Mexico City (1997).  Visiting professorships of research at the Universities of Paris and Saint-Etienne, France, and Tokyo Institute of Technology (2000 - 2003).  Adjunct Professor of Materials Science and Engineering, University of Arizona (2004 - 2005).  Winner of the 1993 N.F. Mott Award sponsored by the Journal of Non-Crystalline Solids, the 1995 Otto Schott Award offered by the Carl-Zeiss-Stiftung (Germany), a 1996 Outstanding Graduate School Alumnus Award at Brown University, and the 1997 Sigma Xi Pure Science Award at NRL. Principal author of 109 of his 185 published works, a body of work which is highly cited by his peers.  Officially credited with largest number of papers (5) by any author on list of 100 most cited articles authored at NRL between 1973 and 1988. 
Personal blog 1/5/07: "David Ray Griffin has web-published a splendid, highly footnoted account of The Destruction of the World Trade Center: Why the Official Account Cannot Be True:  This scholarly work, rich in eyewitness accounts, includes 11 separate pieces of evidence that the World Trade Center towers 1, 2 [each 1300+ feet tall, 110 stories], and 7 were brought down by explosives.  [Editor's note: WTC Building 7 was 610 feet tall, 47 stories.  It would have been the tallest building in 33 states.  Although it was not hit by an airplane, it completely collapsed into a pile of rubble in less than 7 seconds at 5:20 p.m. on 9/11, seven hours after the collapses of the Twin Towers.  However, no mention of its collapse appears in the 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks."  Watch the collapse video here.  And six years after 9/11, the Federal government has yet to publish its promised final report that explains the cause of its collapse.]

... I implore my fellow physicists and engineers who may have the time, expertise, and (ideally) supercomputer access to get to work on the physics of the World Trade Center collapses and publish their findings in refereed journals like, say, the Journal of Applied Physics. 

The issue of knowing who was really behind the 9/11 attacks is of paramount importance to the future of our country, because the "official" assumption that it was the work of 19 Arab amateurs (1) does not match the available facts and (2) has led directly to the deplorable Patriot Act, the illegal Iraq war, NSA spying on ordinary Americans, repudiation of the Geneva Conventions, and the repeal of habeas corpus (a fundamental point of law that has been with us since the signing of the Magna Carta in 1215). 

Surely these Orwellian consequences of public ignorance constitute more than sufficient motivation for any patriotic American physicist or engineer to join the search for 9/11 Truth!" http://impactglassman 


Member: Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice   Association Statement: "Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice is a non-partisan organization consisting of independent researchers and activists engaged in uncovering the true nature of the September 11, 2001 attacks." 


Bio: Home


*Dwain Deets, MS Physics, MS Eng &#8211; Former Director, Aerospace Projects, NASA Dryden Flight Research Center*.  Before this appointment, he served as Director, Research Engineering Division at Dryden.  Recipient of the NASA Exceptional Service Award and the Presidential Meritorious Rank Award in the Senior Executive Service (1988).  Selected presenter of the Wright Brothers Lectureship in Aeronautics, a distinguished speaking engagement sponsored by the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) (1986).  Included in "Who's Who in Science and Engineering" 1993 - 2000.  Former Chairman of the Aerospace Control and Guidance Systems Committee of the Society of Automotive Engineers.  Former Member, AIAA Committee on Society and Aerospace Technology.  37 year NASA career. 
Statement in support of Architects and Engineers petition:
"The many visual images (massive structural members being hurled horizontally, huge pyroclastic clouds, etc.) leave no doubt in my mind explosives were involved [in the destruction of the World Trade Center]."  AE911Truth 


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11, signed by more than 400 Architects and Engineers: 

"On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and affiliates  hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 - specifically the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7.  We believe that there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore that the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened and must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that may have been the actual cause behind the destruction of the World Trade Center Towers and WTC Building 7." Sign the Petition 


Editor's note: WTC Building 7 was 610 feet tall, 47 stories.  It would have been the tallest building in 33 states.  Although it was not hit by an airplane, it completely collapsed into a pile of rubble in less than 7 seconds at 5:20 p.m. on 9/11, seven hours after the collapses of the Twin Towers.  However, no mention of its collapse appears in the 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks."  Watch the collapse video here.  And six years after 9/11, the Federal government has yet to publish its promised final report that explains the cause of its collapse. 


Bio: NASA - Dryden Flight Research Center 


*Larry L. Erickson, BS Aeronautical Eng, MS Aeronautical Eng, PhD Eng Mechanics* &#8211; Retired NASA Aerospace Engineer and Research Scientist.  Conducted research in the fields of structural dynamics, aerodynamics, aeroelasticity and flutter.  Recipient of NASA's Aerodynamics Division Researcher-of-the-Year Award.  33-year NASA career.  Member, American Institute of Aeronautics & Astronautics.  Instructor, Physics and Aerospace Engineering, California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo 1998 - present.  Author and co-author of several scientific papers on aerodynamic analysis.  Contributing author to Applied Computational Aerodynamics (1990). 
Statement in support of Architects and Engineers petition:
"Serious technical investigations by experts seem to be lacking from the official explanations."  AE911Truth 


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11, signed by more than 400 Architects and Engineers: 

"On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and affiliates  hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 - specifically the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7.  We believe that there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore that the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened and must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that may have been the actual cause behind the destruction of the World Trade Center Towers and WTC Building 7." Sign the Petition 


Editor's note: WTC Building 7 was 610 feet tall, 47 stories.  It would have been the tallest building in 33 states.  Although it was not hit by an airplane, it completely collapsed into a pile of rubble in less than 7 seconds at 5:20 p.m. on 9/11, seven hours after the collapses of the Twin Towers.  However, no mention of its collapse appears in the 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks."  Watch the collapse video here.  And six years after 9/11, the Federal government has yet to publish its promised final report that explains the cause of its collapse. 


*Bogdan Dzakovic &#8211; Witness before the 9/11 Commission.  14-year Counter-terrorism expert in the Security Division of the Federal Aviation Administration.* Team Leader of the FAA's Red (Terrorism) Team, which conducted undercover tests on airport security through simulated terrorist attacks.  Former Team Leader in the Federal Air Marshal program.  Former Coast Guard officer.

Video transcript 8/21/05 : Regarding the 9/11 Commission "The best I could say about it is they really botched the job by not really going into the real failures. &#8230; At worst, I think the 9/11 Commission Report is treasonous."  Home - On Native Soil 


Signatory of Petition to Release Information Pertaining to 9/11 10/5/06: "We, the undersigned, demand the immediate declassification and release of: 
all transcripts and documents relating to the July 10, 2001 meeting that took place between former CIA Director George Tenet and then National Security Advisor, Condoleezza Rice. It has been alleged that this urgent and out-of-the-ordinary meeting was called to discuss the increasingly dire warnings of an imminent al Qaeda attack within the U.S. ... 
the redacted 28 pages of the Joint Inquiry Into The Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001 (JICI), and 
the CIA Inspector General&#8217;s report, CIA Accountability With Respect To The 9/11 Attacks 
The disastrous nature of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks warrant the release of all of this information so that the American public may learn what its government did or did not do to protect them. Had this nation been properly warned of the looming and imminent terrorist threat, life saving choices could have been made that day." Public's Right To Know - Declassification and Release of Documents Petition



Bio: The Aviation Nation


----------



## DiveCon (Sep 9, 2008)

LOL once was more than enough with the dribble


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## eots (Sep 9, 2008)

that pretty much summarizes your position...dribble...


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## dilloduck (Sep 9, 2008)

eots said:


> that pretty much summarizes your position...dribble...



You never answered me--are you hoping to re-open the investigation ?


----------



## DiveCon (Sep 9, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> You never answered me--are you hoping to re-open the investigation ?


i'm still waiting for the list of the major players that are in on this grand conspiracy


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## Arthur R. (Feb 4, 2009)

Anybody here read "False Flag 911"? It's by a 20-year Boeing airline captain who methodically goes through the list of why it's impossible single-engine flight training would have prepared the 911 perpetrators sufficiently. 

He also mentions seeing Prince Bandar's private jet parked at San Diego airport several times in the months leading up to the 911 attacks -- and San Diego is where the "terrorists" had been living...

I won't give it all away, but those interested in getting at the truth should be focused on Saudi Arabia, not Iran, Iraq or Israel.


----------



## eots (Feb 4, 2009)

Interview With LtCol. Jeff Latas Former USAF Accident Investigation President

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHLiMl7u8R0[/ame]


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## DiveCon (Feb 4, 2009)

eots said:


> Interview With LtCol. Jeff Latas Former USAF Accident Investigation President
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHLiMl7u8R0


hes wrong
he is entitled to his opinion, but that is all it is
his opinion
and they took classes on how to fly airlines, not cesnas
so he is under informed on the facts


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## Modbert (Feb 4, 2009)

The thing that always puzzled me is how the towers went down in free fall in 10 seconds. It had to be a controlled demolition. Otherwise, the towers on 9/11 when they fell broke Newton's Law of Conservation of Momentum.


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## eots (Feb 4, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > Interview With LtCol. Jeff Latas Former USAF Accident Investigation President
> ...



sorry your wrong the pilot that was to have flown their pentagon strike only trained on Cessna's and did poorly...you are speaking of the ones flying the wtc strike


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## DiveCon (Feb 4, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


you dont think they worked together?


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 5, 2009)

DiamondDave said:


> THESE ASININE CONSPIRACY THEORIES ARE  ALL COMPLETE HORSESHIT
> 
> Already debunked SO many times by even the Discovery Channel



Like the ASININE CONSPIRACY THEORY that Muslims and Bin Laden were behind it? 

Only in your fairy tale land has it been debunked.


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## DiveCon (Feb 5, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> DiamondDave said:
> 
> 
> > THESE ASININE CONSPIRACY THEORIES ARE  ALL COMPLETE HORSESHIT
> ...


its YOU that lives in fairytale land


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## Paulie (Feb 5, 2009)

Building 7, and the maneuvers that the AA77 hijacker made, are the two biggest areas that are insufficiently explained, as far as I'm concerned.  Everything else is a red herring and not worth discussing.


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## DiveCon (Feb 5, 2009)

Paulie said:


> Building 7, and the maneuvers that the AA77 hijacker made, are the two biggest areas that are insufficiently explained, as far as I'm concerned.  Everything else is a red herring and not worth discussing.


i guess you havent seen the videos of the HUGE chunk of the tower falling into WTC7 and the videos of the fires shown from the side that was hit


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## DiveCon (Feb 5, 2009)

here is one

WTC 7


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## DiveCon (Feb 5, 2009)

here is another

NEW RARE Footage of WTC 7 North, South & West Prior to Collapse. ~ 9/11 Truth


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## GHook93 (Feb 5, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


> 9/11 was a Mossad plan to draw the U.S. into a war against Israel's arab enemys.
> 
> It had the backing of the Zionists who are in control of the American government.



Yep because those darn Afghanis are such a problem! And we were best friends with Iran and Iraq before the war. Sunni you are a dumb-ass!

Say Israel did it and got caught! Imagine what would have happened to Israel. They would immediately be at war with the US. Israel would cease to exist overnight! That is a risk I doubt Israel would have the balls to take.

It's much more likely that Islamic scum such as yourself did it!


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## Paulie (Feb 5, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> > Building 7, and the maneuvers that the AA77 hijacker made, are the two biggest areas that are insufficiently explained, as far as I'm concerned.  Everything else is a red herring and not worth discussing.
> ...



I've seen them.  In my elementary knowledge of metallurgy and physics, and my more detailed knowledge of fire as a former volunteer FF, I know that smoke like that is indicative of an oxygen-starved fire that is not strong enough to weaken the steel reinforcement inside that building.  Of all the videos I've seen of building 7, I've only actually SEEN actual fires burning on a few floors.  The rest of that smoke is highly indicative of smolder, which absolutely will not weaken that much steel to the point of collapse.

This doesn't mean I'm claiming conspiracy, just that the explanations given seem insufficient to me.  I don't just believe it because it's said.  Even FEMA and the NIST admit it's inconclusive, which along with what I already know based on what I see with my own eyes, is enough for me to maintain skepticism.  Just because I'd rather it not be the government who plotted it, doesn't mean I'll look for whatever answer would clear them.  The jury is still out on the issue of building 7 as far as I'm concerned.

I'm also highly skeptical about how the AA77 hijacker was able to make the kind of maneuvers he made, considering what we already know about his insufficient capabilities of flying even a Cessna, according to his flight instructor.  Seasoned military pilots themselves have questioned it, as well.  

There's nothing wrong with having questions about this subject, it doesn't make you a loon.


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## eots (Feb 5, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 was a Mossad plan to draw the U.S. into a war against Israel's arab enemys.
> ...



THEY NEEDED THE BIN LADEN BOOGIE MAN....


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYIZW959vJc]YouTube - Fox News expose: Israelis had foreknowledge of 9-11.[/ame]


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## DiveCon (Feb 5, 2009)

Paulie said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Paulie said:
> ...


you telling me that diesel fuel wouldnt make that kind of smoke?
you forget that that building had several tanks for emergency genorators
a 60k gal one just for the city 
also the structure had been severly damaged by the tower that fell into it
and the way it was built over the power sub station also contributed to it


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## DiveCon (Feb 5, 2009)

eots said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...


gee, the title of that video is not supported in the actual video, why am i NOT surprised


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## eots (Feb 5, 2009)

really ...


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## eots (Feb 5, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97ImPcb4keY&feature=related]YouTube - Dancing Israelis on 9/11 Interviewed[/ame]


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## DiveCon (Feb 5, 2009)

eots said:


> really ...


really, thats how you guys come off looking like LIARS all the damn time


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## DiveCon (Feb 5, 2009)

eots said:


> YouTube - Dancing Israelis on 9/11 Interviewed


and here we have ANOTHER one that doesnt support the title

see why i rarely bother to even watch the videos you post


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## eots (Feb 5, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > YouTube - Dancing Israelis on 9/11 Interviewed
> ...



wow your denial is something else...


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## DiveCon (Feb 5, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


no, its you in denial

the titles of those videos are not represented in the actual video
that second one doesnt show a single "dancing Israeli" or proof that it ever happened


----------



## eots (Feb 5, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CHq6JocvDM&feature=related]YouTube - 911 Explosive laden van 2-3 arrests[/ame]


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## DiveCon (Feb 5, 2009)

eots said:


> YouTube - 911 Explosive laden van 2-3 arrests


given the fact that the last two videos you posted have false titles to them, why should i give this one a watch?


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## Paulie (Feb 6, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> you telling me that diesel fuel wouldnt make that kind of smoke?
> you forget that that building had several tanks for emergency genorators
> a 60k gal one just for the city
> also the structure had been severly damaged by the tower that fell into it
> and the way it was built over the power sub station also contributed to it



You must not have read up on the most current consensus about building 7.  NIST released a draft report about 7's collapse back in August of this year, and they claim neither diesel, nor collateral damage from the towers, was responsible.  In fact, their conclusion seems pretty fucking ridiculous if you ask me:

7 World Trade Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> On August 21, 2008, NIST released its draft report on the causes of the collapse of 7 World Trade Center, beginning a period for public comments.[33] In its investigation, NIST utilized ANSYS to model events leading up to collapse initiation and LS-DYNA models to simulate the global response to the initiating events.[45] *NIST determined that diesel fuel did not play an important role, nor did the structural damage from the collapse of the twin towers*. But the lack of water to fight the fire was an important factor. The fires burned out of control during the afternoon, including on floor 13, where a critical interior column buckled. With the buckling of that column, adjacent columns also failed along with the floor structure above. This triggered a vertical progression of floor failures to the roof. The collapse then progressed east-to-west across the structure, and ultimately the entire structure collapsed. *The fires, fueled by office contents, along with the lack of water, were the key reasons for the collapse*



Office contents?  A steel reinforced structure collapsed primarily because of fires from _office contents_?  As someone who's completed firefighter training, I find that to be highly insulting of my intelligence.

I realize this is something that 9/11 truthers use constantly to back their claims, but in this case I have to say it makes a lot of sense.  The steel reinforced building that burned up in a raging inferno in Madrid remained standing after it was all done and over with.










That's a REAL fire.  Now you compare that to the pussy ass little "office contents" fires in building 7, which from the outside looks like it hardly holds a candle to the Windsor in Madrid, how are you not left wondering WTF?






How do you reconcile that?  I can't, and that's why I question it.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 6, 2009)

#1) the parts of that building that were of similar construction to WTC7 DID totally collapse
#2) the fires you see on ONE SIDE of WTC7 were not the total picture, those fires only were showing because the mirrored glass was knocked out
you DONT see the fires where the glass was still intact
if you look at the other side you can see the building was FULLY engaged
as to the NIST saying the structural damage and Diesel fuel were not major factors, then i agree with you they are NUTS
because adding to what they called the major factor of NO WATER to fight the fire sure made it a lot bigger deal


----------



## eots (Feb 6, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUkbLaFevyg&feature=related]YouTube - 9/11 NYPD FOUND EXPLOSIVE DEVICES - MSNBC[/ame]


----------



## eots (Feb 6, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT-DqWYRh9s&feature=related]YouTube - US Marines Demand 911 Truth & Justice[/ame]


----------



## Paulie (Feb 6, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> #1) the parts of that building that were of similar construction to WTC7 DID totally collapse
> #2) the fires you see on ONE SIDE of WTC7 were not the total picture, those fires only were showing because the mirrored glass was knocked out
> you DONT see the fires where the glass was still intact
> if you look at the other side you can see the building was FULLY engaged
> ...



Do you have pictures showing those fires?  I haven't seen a pic of 7 yet that showed a fully engulfed building.

And what about the AA77 hijacker Hani Hanjour?  His flight instructor said he could barely control a Cessna.  How did he make such expert maneuvers in a commercial airliner, most notably managing to keep the plane completely above the ground by a matter of a few feet approaching impact, without so much as a scrape to the grass much less stalling the plane out?

I have to say dude, I just have a real hard time understanding that one.  When you have seasoned military pilots questioning the possibility of that, it has to at least make you wonder.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 6, 2009)

Paulie said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > #1) the parts of that building that were of similar construction to WTC7 DID totally collapse
> ...


i posted some videos and you claimed to have watched


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## DiveCon (Feb 6, 2009)

eots said:


> YouTube - 9/11 NYPD FOUND EXPLOSIVE DEVICES - MSNBC


more lies
they found a "suspicious device" and that has already been debunked as an early false report
just like they ALWAYS have in the media when they dont know what the fuck they are talking about


----------



## eots (Feb 6, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



don't pretend you posted pictures of wtc 7 engulfed in flames because no such thing exist


----------



## eots (Feb 6, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > YouTube - 9/11 NYPD FOUND EXPLOSIVE DEVICES - MSNBC
> ...




you mean it was later covered up and ignored...


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 6, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


ROFLMAO
yes, and the super dome was a killing field


just keep showing what a fucking moron you are


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 6, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Paulie said:
> ...


yes they do exist, i posted video of it


----------



## Paulie (Feb 6, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



I did watch them.  All I saw was the same amount of fires located on a few floors, and huge plumes of dark smoke which indicate oxygen-starved fires that ultimately don't burn hot enough to weaken steel.  I haven't seen anything even REMOTELY synonymous with what the fire in the Madrid building looked like.  Not even CLOSE.

An explanation of "no water" is just not enough to convince me.  Lack of sufficient oxygen is enough to quell belief that those office contents fires could somehow have burned hot enough to weaken steel so much that en entire building collapses completely.

Too many questions, DC.  I don't just want whatever answer seems to put a conspiracy theory to rest.  I want something that makes SENSE, and "office contents" and "no water" do not adequately explain that as far as I'm concerned.  I'm always open for the scientific community's continued research on the subject though, of course.


----------



## eots (Feb 6, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



...superdome..? ...you Can never deal with the issue or the statements made and have to resort to trying to imply your childish made up scenarios are in anyway relevant to anything


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## DiveCon (Feb 6, 2009)

wow, you really are a moron


early reports dude, early reports
you are the one that cant deal with the issue


----------



## eots (Feb 6, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> wow, you really are a moron
> 
> 
> early reports dude, early reports
> you are the one that cant deal with the issue



but in this instance we can confirm through police statements and records  the facts surrounding this event...if the files where still not deemed classified...the fact evidence was seized and arrest made are not in dispute by the authority's....


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 6, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > wow, you really are a moron
> ...


really?
and the records of those arrests and the explosive device?
and please, not from a troofer site


----------



## eots (Feb 6, 2009)

*Israel  arrest 911*


[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWpW...safe=off&q=men arrested on sept 11  911 confi


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## DiveCon (Feb 6, 2009)

eots said:


> *Israel  arrest 911*
> 
> 
> [YouTube - Israel spies on the USA part 1


seen that report before
it doesnt say what you claim
LOL why am i NOT surprised


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## Godboy (Feb 6, 2009)

> really?
> and the records of those arrests and the explosive device?
> and please, not from a troofer site



I think it speaks volumes about eots state of mind and what he considers as reliable sources, when in response to the question above, he provides a link to a youtube video. I havent LoLed like that in a long time. Hilarious.

Over and over again he provides links to conspiracy web sites as if thats real proof. He doesnt get it. You can tell him that not everything on the web should be believed, but he wont truly grasp the concept. Certainly not when hes faced with information that backs any of his wacky beliefs. Any tib bit he finds that backs up his conspiracy claim is instantly elevated to FACT. There is no attempt by him to check the reliability of his sources.

Early in my message board career, i made the mistake of not checking on the reliability of MY sources and i found myself in a couple embarrassing situations. I learned from that mistake and ill be damned if it ever happens again. I wont provide links to ANYTHING, unless i know for a fact its legit. With eots, he doesnt seem deterred by pride in using reliable facts, he just doesnt care.


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## DiveCon (Feb 6, 2009)

Godboy said:


> > really?
> > and the records of those arrests and the explosive device?
> > and please, not from a troofer site
> 
> ...


its not just using youtube, a youtube video CAN be a good source if it was posted by someone being honest
but the ones he uses dont support the titles they give them
like the "explosives found" turns out it was yet another early report where it was said a "suspiscious device" was found when NONE was
then i brought up the superdome and how the early reports on that were in error as well and he didnt get the connection

i have yet to meet a troofer online that has an ounce of credibility and doesnt lie


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## eots (Feb 6, 2009)

Godboy said:


> > really?
> > and the records of those arrests and the explosive device?
> > and please, not from a troofer site
> 
> ...



*I think it speaks volumes you characterize it as a youtube video ...which is just the media in which the information is served ..when in fact it is a national broadcast on fox news and could not be anymore mainstream*

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWpWc_suPWo]YouTube - Israel spies on the USA part 1[/ame]


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## eots (Feb 6, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ielNX8WOv6g&feature=related]YouTube - Censored 9-11 Police Radio Transmissions Urban Moving Vans[/ame]


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## eots (Feb 6, 2009)

*Capt. Eric H. May, U.S. Army (ret) &#8211; Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer. Former inspector and interpreter for the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty team. 

Essay 9/11 and Non-investigation: "As a former Army officer, my tendency immediately after 911 was to rally 'round the colors and defend the country against what I then thought was an insidious, malicious all-Arab entity called Al-Qaida.  In fact, in April of 2002, I attempted to reactivate my then-retired commission to return to serve my country in its time of peril. ... 

Now I view the 911 event as Professor David Griffin, *author of The New Pearl Harbor, views it: as a matter that implies either 

A)  passive participation by the Bush White House through a deliberate stand-down of proper defense procedures that (if followed) would have led US air assets to a quick identification and confrontation of the passenger aircraft that impacted WTC 1 and WTC 2, or worse ... 

B) active execution of a plot by rogue elements of government, starting with the White House itself, in creating a spectacle of destruction that would lead the United States into an invasion of the Middle East ..."  Captain Eric May 

*
Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11:     
"We want truthful answers to question. &#8230;  As Americans of conscience, we ask for four things: 
An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer 
Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings. 
Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence. 
The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry." *http://www.911truth.org/article


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## DiveCon (Feb 6, 2009)

and here is Eots the C&P king of the troofers


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## Godboy (Feb 6, 2009)

Yeah, i see. My mistake. I gues s the problem was i just assumed it was another crackpot video from eots. In all honesty, i stopped looking at eots links several weeks ago. It just didnt seem like a good way of spending my time. I also skip every post he makes with long cut and paste jobs from crackpot websites. I dont read ANY of those anymore because its just the same crap he cuts and pastes over and over again, and he refuses to check out if they are legitimate sites, and im just not going to do it for him anymore. Hes proven his links are lies, many times over.


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## DiveCon (Feb 6, 2009)

Godboy said:


> Yeah, i see. My mistake. I gues s the problem was i just assumed it was another crackpot video from eots. In all honesty, i stopped looking at eots links several weeks ago. It just didnt seem like a good way of spending my time. I also skip every post he makes with long cut and paste jobs from crackpot websites. I dont read ANY of those anymore because its just the same crap he cuts and pastes over and over again, and he refuses to check out if they are legitimate sites, and im just not going to do it for him anymore. Hes proven his links are lies, many times over.


an dats da troof


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## eots (Feb 7, 2009)

what a couple clowns ...you are both interesting only in how deep the denial runs...and the lame and non-responsive comments you make to avoid ..dealing with simply reality's ..like many people of sound mind intelligence and expertise seriously question almost every aspect of the official story...


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## DiveCon (Feb 7, 2009)

eots said:


> what a couple clowns ...you are both interesting only in how deep the denial runs...and the lame and non-responsive comments you make to avoid ..dealing with simply reality's ..like many people of sound mind intelligence and expertise seriously question almost every aspect of the official story...


says the clown that never posts anything of substance and its always C&P from some nutter troofer site
and videos with titles that lie


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## strollingbones (Feb 7, 2009)

wtf is a troofer?


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## DiveCon (Feb 7, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> wtf is a troofer?


you've never heard the term before?
they call themselves truthers, but i've found that they lie so much it doesnt fit
so the "troofer" seemed to fit better


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## eots (Feb 7, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> wtf is a troofer?



a moronic term to discredit or disrespect patriots and men of honor seeking the truth and defending your liberty  such as these



Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report


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## DiveCon (Feb 7, 2009)

eots said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> > wtf is a troofer?
> ...


too bad to "defend" your truth, you have to LIE so much


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## eots (Feb 7, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > strollingbones said:
> ...




so you deem these patriots... liars...


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## eots (Feb 7, 2009)

Letter to Congress regarding the 9/11 Commission Report 9/13/04, signed by the following 25 military, intelligence, and law enforcement veterans: Project On Government Oversight 


"[W]e the undersigned wish to bring to the attention of the Congress and the people of the United States what we believe are serious shortcomings in the report and its recommendations. &#8230; 

Omission is one of the major flaws in the Commission&#8217;s report.  We are aware of significant issues and cases that were duly reported to the commission by those of us with direct knowledge, but somehow escaped attention. &#8230; 

The omission of such serious and applicable issues and information by itself renders the report flawed, and casts doubt on the validity of many of its recommendations. ... 

The Commission, with its incomplete report of "facts and circumstances", intentional avoidance of assigning accountability, and disregard for the knowledge, expertise and experience of those who actually do the job, has now set about pressuring our Congress and our nation to hastily implement all its recommendations. ... 

We the undersigned, who have worked within various government agencies (FBI, CIA, FAA, DIA, Customs) responsible for national security and public safety, call upon you in Congress to include the voices of those with first-hand knowledge and expertise in the important issues at hand.  We stand ready to do our part." Project On Government Oversight


Edward J. Costello, Jr. &#8211; Former Special Agent, Counterterrorism, FBI.  Former Judge pro tem., Los Angeles, CA. 


John M. Cole &#8211; Former Intelligence Operations Specialist, in the FBI&#8217;s Counterintelligence Division.  In charge of FBI&#8217;s foreign intelligence investigations covering India, Pakistan and Afghanistan. 18-year FBI career. 


Mark Conrad, JD &#8211; Retired Agent in Charge, Internal Affairs, U.S. Customs, responsible for the internal integrity and security for areas encompassing nine states and two foreign locations.  Former Federal Sky Marshall.  27-year U.S. Customs career.  Currently Associate General Counsel, National Association of Federal Agents.  Assistant Professor of Criminal Justice at Troy University.


Rosemary N. Dew &#8211; Former Supervisory Special Agent, Counterterrorism and Counterintelligence, FBI.  Former member of The President's National Security Telecommunications Advisory Committee (NSTAC) and the Electronic Commerce/Cyber Crime Working Group. 13-year FBI career. 


Bogdan Dzakovic &#8211; Witness before the 9/11 Commission.  14-year Counter-terrorism expert in the Security Division of the Federal Aviation Administration.  Team Leader of the FAA's Red (Terrorism) Team, which conducted undercover tests on airport security through simulated terrorist attacks.  Former Team Leader in the Federal Air Marshal program.  Former Coast Guard officer.  (See also individual statement above.)


Sibel D. Edmonds &#8211; Witness before the 9/11 Commission.  Former Language Translation Specialist, performing translations for counterterrorism and counterintelligence operations, FBI.  (See also individual statement above.)


Steve Elson &#8211; Former Special Agent with the U.S. Navy and the FAA. Specialist in Counterterrorism, Intelligence, and Security.  Twenty-two years military experience, primarily in Naval Special Warfare and nine years Federal service with the FAA and DEA.  Retired Navy SEAL. (See also individual statement above.)


David Forbes &#8211; Former head of Thames Valley Police Fraud Squad, trained at New Scotland Yard.  Over 30 years experience in law enforcement, commercial and industrial security-related risk management, and service sector business management.  Currently Aviation, Logistics and Govt. Security Analyst, BoydForbes, Inc.


Melvin A. Goodman &#8211; Former Division Chief and Senior Analyst at the Office of Soviet Affairs, CIA,1966 - 1990.  Senior Analyst at the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, State Department, 1974 - 1976.  Professor of International Security at the National War College 1986 - 2004.  Currently Senior Fellow at the Center for International Policy and Adjunct Professor of International Relations at Johns Hopkins University. He is the author and co-author of five books on international relations. (See also individual statement above.)


Mark Graf &#8211; Former Security Supervisor, Planner, and Derivative Classifier, Department of Energy.  Former Chairman of the Rocky Flats (DOE) Physical Security Systems Working Group from 1990 through 1995.


Gilbert M. Graham &#8211; Retired Special Agent, Counterintelligence, FBI. 24-year FBI career. 


Diane Kleiman &#8211; Former Special Agent, US Customs.


Lt. Col. Karen U. Kwiatkowski, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) &#8211; Former Political-Military Affairs Officer in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Also served on the staff of the Director of the National Security Agency. 20-year Air Force veteran.  (See also individual statement above.)


Lynne A. Larkin &#8211; Former CIA Operations Officer.  Served in several CIA foreign stations and in the CIA's counter-intelligence center helping chair a multi-agency task force and seminars on coordinating intelligence among intelligence and crime prevention agencies.


David MacMichael, PhD &#8211; Former Senior Estimates Officer with special responsibility for Western Hemisphere Affairs at the CIA's National Intelligence Council.  Former Captain, U.S. Marine Corps.


Raymond L. McGovern &#8211; Former Chairman, National Intelligence Estimates, CIA, responsible for preparing the President&#8217; Daily Brief (PDB) for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush.  27-year CIA veteran. Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer.  (See also individual statement above.)


Theodore J. Pahle &#8211; Former Senior Intelligence Officer with the Defense Intelligence Agency.  His 37-year intelligence career was exclusively as a HUMINT (Human Intelligence) operations officer with DIA, Office of Naval Intelligence and U.S. Army Intelligence.  He is a Middle East and Latin American operations specialist.  Today, he continues to support the HUMINT effort as a contract instructor.


Behrooz Sarshar &#8211; Retired Language Translation Specialist, performing Farsi translations for counterterrorism and counterintelligence operations dealing with Iran and Afghanistan, FBI.


Brian F. Sullivan &#8211; Retired Special Agent and Risk Management Specialist, FAA.  Retired Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police.


Commander Larry J. Tortorich, U.S. Navy (ret) &#8211; Former Deputy Program Manager for Logistics &#8211; Tomahawk Cruise Missiles.  24-year Navy career in the fields of aviation and counterterrorism.  Two years as a federal employee with DHS/TSA in the fields of security and counterterrorism.  


Jane A. Turner &#8211; Retired Special Agent, FBI.  24-year FBI career. 


John B. Vincent &#8211; Retired Special Agent, Counterterrorism, FBI.  27-year FBI career.


Fred Whitehurst, JD, PhD &#8211; Retired Supervisory Special Agent / Laboratory Forensic Examiner, FBI.  16-year FBI career.  Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer. 


Col. Ann Wright, U.S. Army (ret) &#8211; Retired Army officer and former U.S. Diplomat.  Served 13 years on active duty with the U.S. Army and 16 years in the U.S. Army Reserves.  She was a member of the International law team in Operation Urgent Fury in Grenada and served in Panama and Somalia.  She joined the Foreign Service in 1987 and served as Deputy Chief of Mission of U.S. Embassies in Sierra Leone, Micronesia and Afghanistan.  She helped reopen the US Embassy in Kabul in December, 2001.  One of three U.S. State Department officials to publicly resign in direct protest of the invasion of Iraq in March, 2003.  (See also individual statement above.)


Matthew J. Zipoli &#8211; Special Response Team (SRT) Officer, DOE.   Vice President, Security Police Officer's Association, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory


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## DiveCon (Feb 7, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


keep believing that
its YOU and your fellow NUTTERS


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## DiveCon (Feb 7, 2009)

eots said:


> Letter to Congress regarding the 9/11 Commission Report 9/13/04, signed by the following 25 military, intelligence, and law enforcement veterans: Project On Government Oversight
> 
> 
> "[W]e the undersigned wish to bring to the attention of the Congress and the people of the United States what we believe are serious shortcomings in the report and its recommendations. &#8230;
> ...


having "shortcomings" in the report, and believing it was an inside job are not the same thing


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## eots (Feb 7, 2009)

and then i would direct you to there personal statements...where the majority of signatory's make much more direct statements...


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## eots (Feb 8, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcWT2lQszEE&feature=related]YouTube - Only Aired Once About PENTAGON !!![/ame]


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## DiveCon (Feb 8, 2009)

eots said:


> YouTube - Only Aired Once About PENTAGON !!!


yeah, didnt you see that you guys use that out of context
that very guy was interviewed and said so in another video posted on this very thread by a non-troofer(AKA someone that doesnt LIE)


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## eots (Feb 8, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciu7ia9-icI]YouTube - Pentagon Eye Witness Pt 1 of 2[/ame]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2aM6j1Yy60&feature=related]YouTube - Pentagon Eye Witness Pt 2 of 2[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=schV0rKCRwA]YouTube - Don Wright Pentagon Witness[/ame]


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 8, 2009)

eots said:


> YouTube - Pentagon Eye Witness Pt 1 of 2
> 
> 
> YouTube - Pentagon Eye Witness Pt 2 of 2
> ...



I keep asking you, where did the plane go? Where did the passengers and crew go? How is it that no one saw this plane fly off to some super secret base to be dismantled and the passengers and crew murdered , dismembered and dumped in acid vats? I mean come on, it can not be that hard to answer, The wife of a Member of the Government ( I think Transportation Secretary) was on the plane and called her husband. Now why wouldn't she tell him they were being flown to this super secret base? Or any of the other passengers that had cell phones?

Just this single claim makes you look as stupid as can be. They would have had to send Government underlings to hijack the plane, they would have had to have paid off or subverted the air traffic controllers in the DC and neighboring areas to NOT notice the plane leaving. They would have had to paid off or secretly placed all the eyewitnesses that SAW the plane. They would have to have doctored all the tapes that show momentary images of the aircraft as it passed security cameras. They would have had to have a base with the entire force on the base in on the plan. Security to offload and murder the people, construction to dismantle and destroy the aircraft, Air Traffic controllers, maintenance, flight line, air crews, all the myriad number of people that work at airbases.

Now if you are going to claim the plane flew under the radar, then where are all the irrate citizens that got shaken out of their homes by a jet flying that low for so long?

Not to mention, once again, YOU can not define the supposed missile that made the hole in the Pentagon. It must have been made of cellulose like that Tom Clancy Novel, but then how did it punch through all those reinforced walls at the pentagon? Those walls had JUST been rebuilt and reinforced. There is no evidence of an explosive warhead, no crater and no tell tale signs of explosives. The missile would have had to have been HUGE to make that big a hole in the Pentagon and penetrate that deep. And of course who secretly trucked in all the aircraft debris?

You can not identify what would have fired the hypothetical missile ( that does not exist) you have not explained how the Government got an AWACS into the area undetected and then got it out. Nor how they kept the crew of said AWACS quiet all these years. No evidence of a pilot for this mythical air fighter that fired the missile. No missing missiles from anyones stocks, no weapons loaders, flight crew, security, air traffic controllers or base personnel to say they saw this mythical aircraft get loaded with a non existant missile , take off fire said missile and then land, all while being undetected by any radar anywhere.


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## Mr. Jones (Feb 8, 2009)

dilloduck said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > EXACTLY..don't ask for evidence then you pathetic drone
> ...


This is so typical of the way many Americans feel.  Lazy ass people who think they are patriotic, and have the audacity to put those who actually research about their country down. You will learn nothing if you insist on the watching the "better packaged" bullshit the MSM feeds you idiots.


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 8, 2009)

Mr. Jones said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



I notice you can not answer where the plane went either. So you just ignore it.


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## Mr. Jones (Feb 8, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> glockmail said:
> 
> 
> > And to think I had respect for you before this, you anti-Semitic pig.
> ...


 Man please quit with the "anti-semite" BS already. Anytime someone evens questions the (counterfeit-Jewish State in, but not of) Israel, they get "labeled" as an "anti-semite".

 One of the myths that has been perpetrated on the world is that only Jews are semites. This is totally inaccurate. Unfortunately, the ADL (the Anti-Defamation League) has made a fortune in donations and has conned most media networks and most people in the world into believing this untruth.
If one looks into the history of the word, semite, it has to do with a language group and no more. The semitic languages are, at least according to most linguistic experts, Amharic (spoken in Ethiopia and Eritrea, the lands once known as Abyssinia), Arabic (spoken in all the Arab countries and in many Muslim countries because it is the language of the Quran), Hebrew (spoken in Israel and by some Jews and others outside of Israel), Aramaic (spoken primarily by the Chaldeans of Iraq and by some Catholic and Maronite Christians in the world, at least in their church services if not in their homes or business) and Syriac (spoken by a few in various parts of Syria and in the Middle East). Incidentally, according to most linguists, Abraham, the father of the Jews and Arabs, spoke Aramaic, that was the language of the land at the time, not Hebrew.
 T o get back to facts about semites, Jews, language and genetics, let me go futher. The actual genetic Jews were born in the Middle East and are known as Sephardic Jews. These Jews did speak a semitic language, Hebrew , from their earliest incarnation, but also, some at the time of Christ, also spoke Aramaic, Arabic and Amharic because of their location in Jerusalem and other Middle Eastern cities such as what is now Addis Abbabba, Cairo, Baghdad and Damascus. One rarely hears a Sephardic Jew yelling, anti-semite because he knows better and because he is aware of his own history within semitic language speaking lands.

L et me be clear about another important matter; I am not touting for people who are anti-Jewish or anti-Arab, or anti-any ethnic or racial group; those people who stereotype or attack others based on their race or ethnicity are dead wrong and should be condemned-so too should those who abuse labels and use them wrongly to stop others from being justifiably critical should also be condemned (and in this case, I am referring to the ADL and other groups of that sort who label people with impunity and carelessness, sometimes wrecking their careers, their reputations, their businesses and their lives!)
s o s: Semite?? Who is a Semite??

 The majority of so called "Jews" aren't believed to even be true desendants of Abraham.
 ..the large majority of surviving Jews in the world is of Eastern European - and thus perhaps mainly of Khazar - origin. If so, this would mean that their ancestors came not from the Jordan but from the Volga, not from Canaan but from the Caucasus, once believed to be the cradle of the Aryan race; and that genetically they are more closely related to the Hun, Uigur and Magyar tribes than to the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. 
KhazariaThe Myth of Anti-Semitism Exposed at Last!!


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## DiveCon (Feb 8, 2009)

Mr. Jones said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > glockmail said:
> ...


copout


----------



## eots (Feb 8, 2009)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Mr. Jones said:
> 
> 
> > dilloduck said:
> ...



well there are unanswered questions..this is why a crime of this magnitude deserves a full investigation...which it has never recived..clintons blow job was more throughly investigated..that might be good enough for you but it is not for many


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9AoaU7LlTk]YouTube - Bush Questioned about 9/11 Commission[/ame]

*EXPLOSIVES..CAN YOU EXPLAIN THIS MR BUSH...OR DOES IT JUST FALL DOWN THE MEMORY HOLE*

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USnxe7hxP4I&feature=related]YouTube - Bush talks about EXPLOSIVES in building (on 9/11?)[/ame]

WE GOT A LITTLE SAYIN WHERE I COME FROM....A EOTS NEVER FORGETS


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## Mr. Jones (Feb 9, 2009)

RetiredGySgt said:


> I notice you can not answer where the plane went either. So you just ignore it.


HTF am I supposed to tell you that? I think we all want to know.
One thing for sure, is that the damage done to the pentagon, does not look like it was done by a huge passenger jet. It just doesn't look right.  Many others don't think so either. Check out some of the pics yourself. It's too bad they only released one video that is only a few hunds /sec long. The first question should be, is where is the plane that hit the Pentagon, where is the plane wreckage of a 757 in all the photos of the site?  Why won't they release ALL the videos from ALL the cameras? 

Pentagon : Hunt the Boeing! And test your perceptions! - L'Asile utopique - www.asile.org


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## Mr. Jones (Feb 9, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Mr. Jones said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



Truth.


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## Godboy (Feb 9, 2009)

eots said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Mr. Jones said:
> ...


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 9, 2009)

Godboy said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


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## eots (Feb 9, 2009)

Godboy said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 9, 2009)

Godboy said:


> You see, this is the problem with your conspiracy theories. In order to believe any part of your conspiracies, we have to ignore ALL the evidence that points to the opposite. Yes, you must ignore EVERY established fact in this case, to believe your loose claims that have no proof to back them up.
> 
> Why would i abondon real, hard facts, just to buy into your BS? When steel gets hot, it weakens, but eots spends countless hours every week spreading lies about it being impossible. Its sad, because certainly SOME people believe it when they see his cut and paste jobs. It sucks that we have people like this in the world trying to create lies and wacky theories out of thin air for their own perverted reasons, only to then spread that garbage around every chance they get. Eots bought into it, just like the next sucker who believes HIS rants. This crap has a way of spreading among gullable people. Its not exactly his fault, because in eots case, he happens to be insane, and he didnt write it in the first place, but it doesnt make it any less damaging when he does it.
> 
> The case is the same with the idiots who try to spread lies about Obama being a muslim. Its irresponsible and selfish to make such claims without real proof, and its untrue to reality (and this is coming from a die-hard Republican). These conspiracies unfairly damage the reputation of a great nation, but i suspect thats the goal to begin with.


 you know it
of course they will continue in their conspiracies

i'm convinced it is a serious mental illness that needs to be treated


----------



## eots (Feb 9, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > You see, this is the problem with your conspiracy theories. In order to believe any part of your conspiracies, we have to ignore ALL the evidence that points to the opposite. Yes, you must ignore EVERY established fact in this case, to believe your loose claims that have no proof to back them up.
> ...



*and thats because your case is so weak it is all your left with...and the experience and credentials of the experts and signatory's of the petition make your statement ludicrous*


 Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-Eleven  Association Statement: "We have found solid scientific grounds on which to question the interpretation put upon the events of September 11, 2001 by the Office of the President of the United States of America and subsequently propagated by the major media of western nations." 
"On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and affiliates  hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 - specifically the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7.  We believe that there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore that the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened and must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that may have been the actual cause behind the destruction of the World Trade Center Towers and WTC Building 7." Sign the Petition 


Website: MySpace.com - Guy - 51 - Male - Las Vegas, Isle Of Man - www.myspace.com/supereagle69 


Letter to Congress regarding the 9/11 Commission Report 9/13/04, signed by the following 25 military, intelligence, and law enforcement veterans: Project On Government Oversight 


"[W]e the undersigned wish to bring to the attention of the Congress and the people of the United States what we believe are serious shortcomings in the report and its recommendations. &#8230; 

Omission is one of the major flaws in the Commission&#8217;s report.  We are aware of significant issues and cases that were duly reported to the commission by those of us with direct knowledge, but somehow escaped attention. &#8230; 

The omission of such serious and applicable issues and information by itself renders the report flawed, and casts doubt on the validity of many of its recommendations. ... 

The Commission, with its incomplete report of "facts and circumstances", intentional avoidance of assigning accountability, and disregard for the knowledge, expertise and experience of those who actually do the job, has now set about pressuring our Congress and our nation to hastily implement all its recommendations. ... 

We the undersigned, who have worked within various government agencies (FBI, CIA, FAA, DIA, Customs) responsible for national security and public safety, call upon you in Congress to include the voices of those with first-hand knowledge and expertise in the important issues at hand.  We stand ready to do our part." Project On Government Oversight


Edward J. Costello, Jr. &#8211; Former Special Agent, Counterterrorism, FBI.  Former Judge pro tem., Los Angeles, CA. 


John M. Cole &#8211; Former Intelligence Operations Specialist, in the FBI&#8217;s Counterintelligence Division.  In charge of FBI&#8217;s foreign intelligence investigations covering India, Pakistan and Afghanistan. 18-year FBI career. 


Mark Conrad, JD &#8211; Retired Agent in Charge, Internal Affairs, U.S. Customs, responsible for the internal integrity and security for areas encompassing nine states and two foreign locations.  Former Federal Sky Marshall.  27-year U.S. Customs career.  Currently Associate General Counsel, National Association of Federal Agents.  Assistant Professor of Criminal Justice at Troy University.


Rosemary N. Dew &#8211; Former Supervisory Special Agent, Counterterrorism and Counterintelligence, FBI.  Former member of The President's National Security Telecommunications Advisory Committee (NSTAC) and the Electronic Commerce/Cyber Crime Working Group. 13-year FBI career. 


Bogdan Dzakovic &#8211; Witness before the 9/11 Commission.  14-year Counter-terrorism expert in the Security Division of the Federal Aviation Administration.  Team Leader of the FAA's Red (Terrorism) Team, which conducted undercover tests on airport security through simulated terrorist attacks.  Former Team Leader in the Federal Air Marshal program.  Former Coast Guard officer.  (See also individual statement above.)


Sibel D. Edmonds &#8211; Witness before the 9/11 Commission.  Former Language Translation Specialist, performing translations for counterterrorism and counterintelligence operations, FBI.  (See also individual statement above.)


Steve Elson &#8211; Former Special Agent with the U.S. Navy and the FAA. Specialist in Counterterrorism, Intelligence, and Security.  Twenty-two years military experience, primarily in Naval Special Warfare and nine years Federal service with the FAA and DEA.  Retired Navy SEAL. (See also individual statement above.)


David Forbes &#8211; Former head of Thames Valley Police Fraud Squad, trained at New Scotland Yard.  Over 30 years experience in law enforcement, commercial and industrial security-related risk management, and service sector business management.  Currently Aviation, Logistics and Govt. Security Analyst, BoydForbes, Inc.


Melvin A. Goodman &#8211; Former Division Chief and Senior Analyst at the Office of Soviet Affairs, CIA,1966 - 1990.  Senior Analyst at the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, State Department, 1974 - 1976.  Professor of International Security at the National War College 1986 - 2004.  Currently Senior Fellow at the Center for International Policy and Adjunct Professor of International Relations at Johns Hopkins University. He is the author and co-author of five books on international relations. (See also individual statement above.)


Mark Graf &#8211; Former Security Supervisor, Planner, and Derivative Classifier, Department of Energy.  Former Chairman of the Rocky Flats (DOE) Physical Security Systems Working Group from 1990 through 1995.


Gilbert M. Graham &#8211; Retired Special Agent, Counterintelligence, FBI. 24-year FBI career. 


Diane Kleiman &#8211; Former Special Agent, US Customs.


Lt. Col. Karen U. Kwiatkowski, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) &#8211; Former Political-Military Affairs Officer in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Also served on the staff of the Director of the National Security Agency. 20-year Air Force veteran.  (See also individual statement above.)


Lynne A. Larkin &#8211; Former CIA Operations Officer.  Served in several CIA foreign stations and in the CIA's counter-intelligence center helping chair a multi-agency task force and seminars on coordinating intelligence among intelligence and crime prevention agencies.


David MacMichael, PhD &#8211; Former Senior Estimates Officer with special responsibility for Western Hemisphere Affairs at the CIA's National Intelligence Council.  Former Captain, U.S. Marine Corps.


Raymond L. McGovern &#8211; Former Chairman, National Intelligence Estimates, CIA, responsible for preparing the President&#8217; Daily Brief (PDB) for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush.  27-year CIA veteran. Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer.  (See also individual statement above.)


Theodore J. Pahle &#8211; Former Senior Intelligence Officer with the Defense Intelligence Agency.  His 37-year intelligence career was exclusively as a HUMINT (Human Intelligence) operations officer with DIA, Office of Naval Intelligence and U.S. Army Intelligence.  He is a Middle East and Latin American operations specialist.  Today, he continues to support the HUMINT effort as a contract instructor.


Behrooz Sarshar &#8211; Retired Language Translation Specialist, performing Farsi translations for counterterrorism and counterintelligence operations dealing with Iran and Afghanistan, FBI.


Brian F. Sullivan &#8211; Retired Special Agent and Risk Management Specialist, FAA.  Retired Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police.


Commander Larry J. Tortorich, U.S. Navy (ret) &#8211; Former Deputy Program Manager for Logistics &#8211; Tomahawk Cruise Missiles.  24-year Navy career in the fields of aviation and counterterrorism.  Two years as a federal employee with DHS/TSA in the fields of security and counterterrorism.  


Jane A. Turner &#8211; Retired Special Agent, FBI.  24-year FBI career. 


John B. Vincent &#8211; Retired Special Agent, Counterterrorism, FBI.  27-year FBI career.


Fred Whitehurst, JD, PhD &#8211; Retired Supervisory Special Agent / Laboratory Forensic Examiner, FBI.  16-year FBI career.  Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer. 


Col. Ann Wright, U.S. Army (ret) &#8211; Retired Army officer and former U.S. Diplomat.  Served 13 years on active duty with the U.S. Army and 16 years in the U.S. Army Reserves.  She was a member of the International law team in Operation Urgent Fury in Grenada and served in Panama and Somalia.  She joined the Foreign Service in 1987 and served as Deputy Chief of Mission of U.S. Embassies in Sierra Leone, Micronesia and Afghanistan.  She helped reopen the US Embassy in Kabul in December, 2001.  One of three U.S. State Department officials to publicly resign in direct protest of the invasion of Iraq in March, 2003.  (See also individual statement above.)


Matthew J. Zipoli &#8211; Special Response Team (SRT) Officer, DOE.   Vice President, Security Police Officer's Association, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory 


Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 9, 2009)

case in point, Eots, he still does his usual Copy & Paste crap


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## eots (Feb 9, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> case in point, Eots, he still does his usual Copy & Paste crap



case in point ..my cut and paste shows how ridiculous poor little retarded divecons statement is... and to which he has no reasonable response...again


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## DiveCon (Feb 9, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > case in point, Eots, he still does his usual Copy & Paste crap
> ...


reasonable responses are fruitless with morons like you
so i dont bother


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## eots (Feb 9, 2009)

No you have no reasoned response don't pretend...just another weak excuse


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## eots (Feb 9, 2009)

Fire Consumes WTC 7-Size Skyscraper, Building Does Not Collapse 

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Monday, February 9, 2009

Giant flames engulf every floor of 44-story building and it remains standing, yet limited fires across just 8 floors of WTC 7 brought down building within 7 seconds on 9/11. How can NIST&#8217;s &#8220;new phenomenon&#8221; explain this one?


How do the debunkers explain away this one? How come NIST&#8217;s newly invented &#8220;phenomenon&#8221; of &#8220;thermal expansion&#8221; didn&#8217;t put paid to the skyscraper in Beijing? Does fire have different properties in China compared to the U.S.? Does it behave in different ways depending on what country it&#8217;s in?


Fire Consumes WTC 7-Size Skyscraper, Building Does Not Collapse



Remember that WTC 7 was structurally reinforced and suffered limited fires across just 8 floors.

The core of NIST&#8217;s explanation, that an &#8220;extraordinary event&#8221; called &#8220;thermal expansion&#8221; was to blame for the sudden total collapse of WTC 7 is of course on the face of it a fraud when one considers the innumerable number of buildings that have suffered roaring fires across the majority of their floors and remained standing, whereas WTC 7 suffered limited fire damage across a handful of floors.

The Beijing skyscraper fire provides yet more comparable evidence to illustrate the monolithic hoax that fire damage alone can cause buildings to collapse implosion style, adding more weight to the argument that both WTC 7 and the twin towers were destroyed by explosives that were seen and heard by dozens of eyewitnesses who were at ground zero.


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## DiveCon (Feb 9, 2009)

only one problem
alex jones is a LIAR
that was not built the same as WTC7
it was a pair of towers with attachments to eachother
i followed the link to the times story
i guess you didnt bother


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 9, 2009)

eots said:


> i'm convinced it is a serious mental illness that needs to be treated



*and thats because your case is so weak it is all your left with...and the experience and credentials of the experts and signatory's of the petition make your statement ludicrous*


 exactly.well said.If they ever bothered to pick up a book critisizing the Bush administration and the 9/11 investigation,they would know all these people that they go and say to you all the time-Eots these arent real people who really believe this.ect ect.if they ever bothered to pick one up such as griffiths DEBUNKING THE 9/11 DEBUNKING, AN ANSWER TO POPULAR MECHANICS AND OTHER DEFENDERS OF THE OFFICIAL CONSPIRACY THEORY.they would know how much they look like idiots when they say that crap to you all the time cause their in so much denial.


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## DiveCon (Feb 9, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > *and thats because your case is so weak it is all your left with...and the experience and credentials of the experts and signatory's of the petition make your statement ludicrous*
> ...


grifith is a theologian
nothing more

and its you guys that look like idiots
latest polling shows less than 5% believe in your nonsense
thats a good sign that the more people actually look at the facts they are less likely to be idiots like you troofers


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## eots (Feb 9, 2009)

*Col. Ann Wright, U.S. Army (ret) &#8211; Retired Army officer and former U.S. Diplomat. * Served 13 years on active duty with the U.S. Army and 16 years in the U.S. Army Reserves. She was a member of the International law team in Operation Urgent Fury in Grenada and served in Panama and Somalia. She joined the Foreign Service in 1987 and served as Deputy Chief of Mission of U.S. Embassies in Sierra Leone, Micronesia and Afghanistan. She helped reopen the US Embassy in Kabul in December, 2001.  One of three U.S. State Department officials to publicly resign in direct protest of the invasion of Iraq in March, 2003. 


Statement to this website 2/20/07: 

"This isn't about party, it isn't about Bush Bashing. It's about our country, our constitution, and our future. ... 

Your countrymen have been murdered and the more you delve into it the more it looks as though they were murdered by our government, who used it as an excuse to murder other people thousands of miles away. 

If you ridicule others who have sincere doubts and who know factual information that directly contradicts the official report and who want explanations from those who hold the keys to our government, and have motive, means, and opportunity to pull off a 9/11, but you are too lazy or fearful, or ... to check into the facts yourself, what does that make you? Scholars for 9/11 truth have developed reams of scientific data. Michael Ruppert published an exhaustive account of the case from the viewpoint of a trained investigator. *David Ray Griffin provides a context for the unanswered or badly answered questions that should nag at anyone who pretends to love this country. *
Are you afraid that you will learn the truth and you can't handle it? ... 




*David L. Griscom, PhD &#8211; Research physicist, retired in 2001 from Naval Research Laboratory (NRL) in Washington, DC, after 33 years service.  Fellow of the American Physical Society. * Fulbright-García Robles Fellow at Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México in Mexico City (1997).  Visiting professorships of research at the Universities of Paris and Saint-Etienne, France, and Tokyo Institute of Technology (2000 - 2003).  Adjunct Professor of Materials Science and Engineering, University of Arizona (2004 - 2005).  Winner of the 1993 N. F. Mott Award sponsored by the Journal of Non-Crystalline Solids, the 1995 Otto Schott Award offered by the Carl-Zeiss-Stiftung (Germany), a 1996 Outstanding Graduate School Alumnus Award at Brown University, and the 1997 Sigma Xi Pure Science Award at NRL. Principal author of 109 of his 185 published works, a body of work which is highly cited by his peers.  Officially credited with largest number of papers (5) by any author on list of 100 most cited articles authored at NRL between 1973 and 1988. 
Personal blog 1/5/07: "*David Ray Griffin has web-published a splendid, highly footnoted account of The Destruction of the World Trade Center: Why the Official Account Cannot Be True:  This scholarly work, rich in eyewitness accounts, includes 11 separate pieces of evidence that the World Trade Center *towers 1, 2 [each 1300+ feet tall, 110 stories], and 7 were brought down by explosives.  [Editor's note: WTC Building 7 was 610 feet tall, 47 stories.  It would have been the tallest building in 33 states.  Although it was not hit by an airplane, it completely collapsed into a pile of rubble in less than 7 seconds at 5:20 p.m. on 9/11, seven hours after the collapses of the Twin Towers.  However, no mention of its collapse appears in the 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks."  Watch the collapse video here.  And six years after 9/11, the Federal government has yet to publish its promised final report that explains the cause of its 




*Capt. Eric H. May, U.S. Army (ret) &#8211; Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer. Former inspector and interpreter for the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty team. *

Essay 9/11 and Non-investigation: "As a former Army officer, my tendency immediately after 911 was to rally 'round the colors and defend the country against what I then thought was an insidious, malicious all-Arab entity called Al-Qaida.  In fact, in April of 2002, I attempted to reactivate my then-retired commission to return to serve my country in its time of peril. ... 

*Now I view the 911 event as Professor David Griffin, author of The New Pearl Harbor, views it: as a matter that implies either *

A)  passive participation by the Bush White House through a deliberate stand-down of proper defense procedures that (if followed) would have led US air assets to a quick identification and confrontation of the passenger aircraft that impacted WTC 1 and WTC 2, or worse ... 

B) active execution of a plot by rogue elements of government, starting with the White House itself, in creating a spectacle of destruction that would lead the United States into an invasion of the Middle East ..."  Captain Eric May 


Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 9, 2009)

eots said:


> If you ridicule others who have sincere doubts and who know factual information that directly contradicts the official report and who want explanations from those who hold the keys to our government, and have motive, means, and opportunity to pull off a 9/11, but you are too lazy or fearful, or ... to check into the facts yourself, what does that make you? Scholars for 9/11 truth have developed reams of scientific data. Michael Ruppert published an exhaustive account of the case from the viewpoint of a trained investigator. *David Ray Griffin provides a context for the unanswered or badly answered questions that should nag at anyone who pretends to love this country. *
> Are you afraid that you will learn the truth and you can't handle it? ...


 snipped the rest of the C&P nonsense


i'm not afraid of the truth, because i KNOW the truth


you never post facts, you post complete bullshit


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## eots (Feb 9, 2009)

these are the factul statements of these people..something you can not deal wiith in a rational manner


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## DiveCon (Feb 9, 2009)

eots said:


> these are the factul statements of these people..something you can not deal wiith in a rational manner


for all you know they never made any such statement
you cant even prove they exist beyond your troofer sites
i've looked


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## eots (Feb 9, 2009)

and again you go in to denial cant face the facts and deal with them... all your left with is a crazy unfounded conspiracy theory that the people on patriots do not exist or their service records and images and identity's have been stolen and are being used to collect donations unabated...why don't you turn them in diveconartist ?


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## DiveCon (Feb 9, 2009)

eots said:


> and again you go in to denial cant face the facts and deal with them... all your left with is a crazy unfounded conspiracy theory that the people on patriots do not exist or their service records and images and identity's have been stolen and are being used to collect donations unabated...why don't you turn them in diveconartist ?


because it would be a waste of time
again, no one gives those sites any credibility beyond you nutters and thats less than 5% of the population


why dont you provide something thats NOT from a troofer site as proof


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## eots (Feb 9, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > and again you go in to denial cant face the facts and deal with them... all your left with is a crazy unfounded conspiracy theory ...why don't you turn them in diveconartist ?
> ...



because any site or film that features these indivduals ..you deem as troofer sites
why dont you prove that the people on patriots do not exist or their service records and images and identity's have been stolen and are being used to collect donations unabated


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## DiveCon (Feb 9, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


sorry, but one can not prove the negative, its up to you to prove the positive


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## eots (Feb 10, 2009)

bukkshit you made a claim these people and their statements and petitions are a real,,,do you have ant proof of that ?


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 10, 2009)

eots said:


> bukkshit you made a claim these people and their statements and petitions are a real,,,do you have ant proof of that ?



Again RETARD You claim they are real, PROVE it. Divecon claims they are not real, he does not have to prove the negative, you have to prove that they exist. Further you have to prove they actually say the Government conspired to attack the Country. You have to prove they claimed there were explosives in the towers. You have to prove they claimed a missile hit the Pentagon.

While you are at it find one of your talking heads to explain exactly what kind of missile hit the Pentagon. None known of currently could cause the damage there. Not a single missile in known production can cause a hole as large as was punched in the REINFORCED wall at the Pentagon and Penetrated as many layers of reinforced walls as happened. There is no blast crater so no explosives were used. It would have had to be a static missile made of some incredibly hard material that also was pliable enough to disintegrate at the end of the penetration.

The rather then cut and paste to all your talking heads claiming they want a new investigation post  a paper that explains in detail how the construction work and explosives could have been laid in the 3 buildings unseen to be used the day the planes hit. A paper that explains how the jarring hit of the airliners would not have destroyed or disrupted the intricate wiring needed to make the explosives go off as needed to drop the buildings straight down rather then off to the side from the explosion sites.

A paper that explains how the Government knew exactly what floors to lay explosives on for those planes to cover them up when set off. And why it was something like 90 minutes later that the towers collapsed with no pictures of explosions going off on any floors from outside the buildings. That explains how absolutely no wiring debris or explosive debris was ever found in the clean up and investigation. Explosives and wiring would have had to be laced in the basement and your pet theory that magically they policed it all up before anyone noticed does not work for those levels as they were under TONS of debris till the clean up got to them.

A Paper that explains why the Government waited HOURS before blowing up WTC7, rather then right away so as to claim it was destroyed by falling debris? How those explosives would have survived the raging fires in WTC7 for 8 hours to go off when needed?

We already know you can not explain where the Airliner from Washington DC went, nor why the passengers that DID call family from that plane reported descending and then were cut off at the time of the plane hitting the Pentagon. No calls about flying away from the city at all. No reports that non Arabs had hijacked the aircraft. Not a single shred of evidence the plane ever left the DC area. Well other then the lame excuse there never was a plane. I guess the Treasury Secretary's wife was murdered in her home and snuck out of town as well as the crew and passengers known to be on the non existant flight.


----------



## eots (Feb 10, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USnxe7hxP4I]YouTube - Bush talks about EXPLOSIVES in building (on 9/11?)[/ame]


----------



## eots (Feb 10, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6Xoxaf1Al0&feature=related]YouTube - Rumsfeld says Flight 93 was "shot down."[/ame]


----------



## eots (Feb 10, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpdjFV6nYB4]YouTube - Bush saw first plane hit tower ![/ame]


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## eots (Feb 10, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlnQTcLHaMM&feature=related]YouTube - 1 DAY BEFORE 911 WTC attack! DO u know what happened?WATCH![/ame]


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 10, 2009)

eots said:


> and again you go in to denial cant face the facts and deal with them... all your left with is a crazy unfounded conspiracy theory that the people on patriots do not exist or their service records and images and identity's have been stolen and are being used to collect donations unabated...why don't you turn them in diveconartist ?



I know his entertainment on denying these people exists is priceless entertainment.


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 10, 2009)

eots said:


> because any site or film that features these indivduals ..you deem as troofer sites
> why dont you prove that the people on patriots do not exist or their service records and images and identity's have been stolen and are being used to collect donations unabated



whats really hilarious about his rants is you provide him videos  that show black smoke rising from the basement levels of the towers and the sounds of explosives going off below and he always goes and calls them a troofer site.


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 10, 2009)

RetiredGySgt said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > bukkshit you made a claim these people and their statements and petitions are a real,,,do you have ant proof of that ?
> ...



Like i said earlier,if you actually bothered to read books out there on 9/11 and did some research, you would find that out for yourself that they are real people who have made these statements. If you bothered to listen to alex jones or look at his website,you would know that all these people he is talking about are real.they have been guests on his show before and have written books about it.Your hilarious,no Airliner can crash into that tower and bring it down like it did.A plane is made of aluminum.Aluminum slamming against steel is the same thing as a car  crashing into a bridge.the bridge will stay there intack  but the car is a mess.same thing here kid.

Bush had his brother and cousin in charge of the security for the towers in the several months prior to 9/11.It only requires a couple hundred people a couple months to plant the explosives.Bush Sr used to be the former director of the CIA,when you got the son of a former CIA director running the country and his brother and cousin in charge of the towers security, its simple as pie to plant the explosives. Your only going by what the government has told you.A few civilians found explosive residue and thermite in the debris,your just not hearing about that from the government and the corporate controlled media who you worship as the gospel truth. Nobody has claimed to have all the answers to the questions your asking, but the evidence is overwhelming that explosives brought down those towers. You also havent watched 9/11 mysteries cause if you had,you would see the photos DO show explosives going off in the floors below from outside the towers bringing down the towers.


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 10, 2009)

eots said:


> YouTube - Bush talks about EXPLOSIVES in building (on 9/11?)



Yeah I wonder what kind of laughable explanation that the 9/11 apologists like divecon, Big D and The Sarge are going to come up with to defend the official version that explosives did not go off after watching this video where Bush with the slip of the tongue like the idiot he is,admitted explosives being planted in the buildings.what they will come up with now after watching that.


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## Godboy (Feb 10, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > YouTube - Bush talks about EXPLOSIVES in building (on 9/11?)
> ...




I stopped looking at the "troofers" links awhile back, but for shits and giggles i checked this one out. Its really no wonder you guys believe in the conspiracy, because if you are seeing some sort of proof in this video, youre insane.

Why is it that all your "proof" requires grasping at straws? Luckily for me, i have science on my side, and while retards and lunies wont understand that metal weakens when it gets hot, i know the truth and so does the scientific community.

Please, dont bother posting information about your loony conspiracy loving scientists, those guys are dumbasses too. You can find insane people in all walks of life, whether they are doctors, lawyers or scientists, but having credentials doesnt mean squat. The only thing that REALLY matters is if the scientific world agrees with you, and it does with me.

For every medal winning military officer eots finds that agrees with him, theres a thousand others even more qualified that disagree with him. I love how much emphasis he puts on the credentials of those clowns. How many posts has he made listing those idiots? Dr. Theodore Kaczynski has impeccable college credentials, yet he was fucking insane too. Credentials mean jack shit eots. The only thing that matters is if the educated world agrees with you, which of course in eots case, they do not.


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## DiveCon (Feb 10, 2009)

eots said:


> bukkshit you made a claim these people and their statements and petitions are a real,,,do you have ant proof of that ?


you lie again
i didnt say they were not real, i asked you to PROVE they are


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 10, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > and again you go in to denial cant face the facts and deal with them... all your left with is a crazy unfounded conspiracy theory that the people on patriots do not exist or their service records and images and identity's have been stolen and are being used to collect donations unabated...why don't you turn them in diveconartist ?
> ...


except i havent once done such you moron
i asked HIM to prove they are what he claims they are
all he does is C&P bullshit from your nutter troofer sites


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 10, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > YouTube - Bush talks about EXPLOSIVES in building (on 9/11?)
> ...


except what you morons are claiming he said, he DIDNT say
thus more proof you guys are fucking LIARS


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Feb 10, 2009)

Godboy said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



thanks for showing your in complete denial as usual.Bush admits it out of a slip of the tongue and like the 9/11 apologist you are, you STILL grasp at straws to convince yourself  explosives never went off.how pitiful.Only in your fairy tale land do you have science on your side.In the REAL world you dont.AGAIN the REAL experts who built the towers designed the towers with that in mind of a jet aircraft accidently crashing into it at 600 mph and anticipated the fires.the airliners were clocked at speeds of 440 and 550.

John Skilling the lead designer said after the 93 bombing when interviewed about the towers that if an airliner struck the towers,there would be a great loss of life due to fires but the structure itself would remain standing.  Not only THAT but there is a video out made in jan 2001  before 9/11 that was aired on the history channel  called MODERN MARVELS where the on site manager Frank Demartini  back then said that the towers were  OVER DESIGNED to take a hit from a jet airliner.That the building could sustain MULTIPLE hits from airline and would STILL remain standing.I have posted if before and that frady cat divecon didnt even bother to watch it.so I know you wont either seeing how you dismiss the proof of what Bush said.

The more you defend that fairy tale of the 9/11 commission report,the more you look foolish because you ignore what the experts said about the towers. again only in your fairy tale land  does the scientific world agree with you.If you believe the fairy tale of the 9/11 report,you got to DISREGARD the laws of physics that scientists have gone by for thousands of years known as the law of conservation of momentum,that they no longer apply anymore and that sir Issac newton was an idiot.You got to disregard the laws of physics that say the east tower which begins tilting towards the side as the top roof  begins to fall sideways and should have continued to fall sideways cause of the laws of physics, no longer apply anymore.LOL.It could have only come back and fallen in only due to explosives.according to you,all those 110 witnesses who said they saw bright orange yellow flashes going off are all liars.give it up kid and admit the truth that the truth scares you.

what MATTERS is what the experts who designed and built  the towers said which I have proved that your in denial about cause like that frady cat divecon,your in denial about 9/11 as well.


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## DiveCon (Feb 10, 2009)

LOL nothing a moron like YOU could ever say that would cause me to do anything but laugh at your utter styupidity


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## sylverfoxx (Feb 10, 2009)

Godboy said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



Beijing Hotel Tower Is Destroyed by Fire - WSJ.com

Hmm ...... yet another 44 story building engulfed in flames .....  but ... mysteriously it does not collapse. 
Now how in the world could that possibly be??????  Why is it that all these other buildings didn`t collapse into their own footprint from "heat weakened steel" ????
Maybe it`s because all these other bldgs were NOT owned by Larry Silverstein and were NOT the subject of an Israeli false flag attack !!!!
Now there`s some science for ya.


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## DiveCon (Feb 10, 2009)

sylverfoxx said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...


different construction

also the building was unoccupied


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## eots (Feb 11, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> sylverfoxx said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...



moron liar..deniar lol


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 11, 2009)

Thanks all of you retards for admitting you have no evidence at all. I appreciate your candor.


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## eots (Feb 11, 2009)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Thanks all of you retards for admitting you have no evidence at all. I appreciate your candor.



more evidence than your conspiracy theory...


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## eots (Feb 11, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnnjIzamnJo&feature=related]YouTube - 9/11 Truth: Steel Buildings Don't Collapse From Fire[/ame]


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 11, 2009)

eots said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks all of you retards for admitting you have no evidence at all. I appreciate your candor.
> ...



yeah and just because your afraid of the truth and dont want to look at the evidence doesnt mean we havent shown evidence.


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 11, 2009)

sylverfoxx said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > Beijing Hotel Tower Is Destroyed by Fire - WSJ.com
> ...


----------



## Toro (Feb 11, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> yeah its hilarious how they say the fire weakened the towers steel and that caused them to collapse yet like you just posted,that building in China burned for several HOURS yesterday and the day before and yet that building never collapsed.its hilarious the way they grasp at straws to avoid doing the mature thing by  admitting they have been proven wrong.



That is false logic.  Simply because one building does not collapse does not mean another will not.


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## Mr. Jones (Feb 11, 2009)

I pray that in my lifetime that for every treasonous bastard that sold out his country and murdered his own people, followed by the participation in the cover up, and lying about the air at ground zero, which enabled the deaths of some of our finest patriots and citizens, and who participated in the fomenting of the insane government conspiracy lie, that is hung, shot or jailed, I will propose we do the same to the willfully ignorant traitors, enablers, and accomplices of these criminals, both in the public, and the media.
You will either be with us, or with the corrupt government traitors, that have destroyed this country and what it stood for. If or when it comes to that, I'll be locked, loaded and waiting, you fuckballs. 
Increasing Number of States Declaring Sovereignty

The Betrayal » New Hampshire talks Civil War against feds!

Declaration of Intent to Restore the Republic of the united States of America


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 11, 2009)

Toro said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > That is false logic.  Simply because one building does not collapse does not mean another will not.
> ...


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 11, 2009)

Mr. Jones said:


> I pray that in my lifetime that for every treasonous bastard that sold out his country and murdered his own people, followed by the participation in the cover up, and lying about the air at ground zero, which enabled the deaths of some of our finest patriots and citizens, and who participated in the fomenting of the insane government conspiracy lie, that is hung, shot or jailed, I will propose we do the same to the willfully ignorant traitors, enablers, and accomplices of these criminals, both in the public, and the media.
> You will either be with us, or with the corrupt government traitors, that have destroyed this country and what it stood for. If or when it comes to that, I'll be locked, loaded and waiting, you fuckballs.
> Increasing Number of States Declaring Sovereignty
> 
> ...



yeah the people who defend the official version cause their in so much denial about this do a disservice to the over 3000 people in those towers who lost their lives.


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 11, 2009)

This is something I have been wanting to post for a long time that was an article in ROCK CREEK FREE PRESS but was thinking I had to pick the right day to do it cause i did not think the article was out there on the internet and it would take an hour or so to post.But thankfully I discovered it IS on the internet so i wont have to print it out and make multiple posts of it. thank god.Its an article written by Kevin Ryan.Eots showed a video of him talking not too long ago so now is a great time to refer people to a link where he talked about the so called "EXPERTS" from popular mechanics who are sellouts to the american people.If you go to google and google in-Kevin Ryans article on WTC collapse and go to the  eigth article,the third one from the bottom that says 9/11: LOOKING FOR TRUTH IN CREDENTIALS:THE PECULIAR WTC "EXPERTS" as you can see from that article, Kevin Ryan goes on to say-


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## sylverfoxx (Feb 11, 2009)

Toro said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > yeah its hilarious how they say the fire weakened the towers steel and that caused them to collapse yet like you just posted,that building in China burned for several HOURS yesterday and the day before and yet that building never collapsed.its hilarious the way they grasp at straws to avoid doing the mature thing by  admitting they have been proven wrong.
> ...



Can you show another building, in the history of sky scrapers, that has fallen into itself like WT7 did, due to anything other than a controlled demolition?


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 11, 2009)

-But the fact is that the experts found to support the official conspiracy theory of 9/11 are predominantly those who profit from doing so.thats not to say that all these people were "part of the conspiracy" But they are,whether consciously or not,a part of the coverup.and that, of course, is the greater crime.The Bush administration employed a number of such credentialed experts to give us multiple explanations for the unprecedented destruction of three tall steel framed buildings at the world trade center.Unfortunately,all of those explanations have proven to be false,and this fact reminds us that acedemic credentials dont necessarily make a person capable of,or more likely to,tell the truth.
Exactly how they could find so many experts on the fire induced collapse of tall buildings is not immediately clear,considering such and event had never happened before.But it did help that the questions were quickly framed as being solely matters of structural engineering,a sub field of engineering because structural engineers cannot find work without continual government approvals.

Thats just an example of the things that Kevin Ryan goes on to say in the article  as you'll see when you read that great article.Thats why I laugh my butt off when people like Big D and others worship Gene Corley as the ulitmate god on the collapse of the towers collapse cause Corley worked for the US DEPT OF DEFENSE through the Blast Mitigation For Structures Program for many years before 9/11 and was also involved in the coverup with FEMA in the OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING as well.Those are some of the little details that popular mechanics leaves out in their propagation of 9/11.as you can see at the bottom of the article there,it goes on to end the article saying-Kevin Ryan was a manager at Underwriters Laboratories who was terminated in 2004 for pointing out that UL certified the steel used in the WTC to withstand fires of 2000 degrees for six hours,therefore fire could not have caused the collapse.AMEN to that.


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## Mr. Jones (Feb 11, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > bukkshit you made a claim these people and their statements and petitions are a real,,,do you have ant proof of that ?
> ...



LOL, THEN YOU ARE INSINUATING THEY ARE NOT REAL,YOU MORON,  
Dude face it, you are just here because you get off on saying "nah ah, that's a lie", or "troofer site= not real" You crack me up, we have shown you enough evidence that produces very serious doubts about the official version of events yet you are too stubborn to even admit that. I feel sorry for your dumbass, really.






This about sums up people like you


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 11, 2009)

sylverfoxx said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > That is false logic.  Simply because one building does not collapse does not mean another will not.
> ...



yes and also show us where the concrete was pulverized to dust and the newspaper articles of body parts scattered blocks away and witnesses saying they saw bright orange yellow flashes going off- something that has never happened in the history of mankind.all you got to do to know the 9/11 commission needs to be called the 9/11 COVERUP commission, is go to the top of some huge tall building sometime and drop off a slab of concrete on the street and see if it pulverizes to dust.it wont happen.It will break off into tiny chunks.

 Hey sylverfoxx,Eots  and mr jones,could you guys read that article on kevin ryan I just talked about and comment on it? I would like to hear your thoughts on it.Like i said,just go to google and google in-Kevin Ryans article on WTC collpase and read the article there that says-9/11 LOOKING FOR TRUTH IN CREDENTIALS:THE PECULIAR WTC EXPERTS.thanks. I would appreciate your thoughts on that article.


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## Mr. Jones (Feb 11, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> ....
> 
> Hey sylverfoxx,Eots  and mr jones,could you guys read that article on kevin ryan I just talked about and comment on it? I would like to hear your thoughts on it.Like i said,just go to google and google in-Kevin Ryans article on WTC collpase and read the article there that says-9/11 LOOKING FOR TRUTH IN CREDENTIALS:THE PECULIAR WTC EXPERTS.thanks. I would appreciate your thoughts on that article.


 I actually posted part of that article somewhere in this long ass thread, but of course these guys don't want to read or hear anything that will tarnish the reputation of their mass murderer family member Uncle Sam.


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## Mr. Jones (Feb 11, 2009)

Toro said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > yeah its hilarious how they say the fire weakened the towers steel and that caused them to collapse yet like you just posted,that building in China burned for several HOURS yesterday and the day before and yet that building never collapsed.its hilarious the way they grasp at straws to avoid doing the mature thing by  admitting they have been proven wrong.
> ...


 Is it logical to believe, that only reinforced hirise buildings like WTC 7 can collapse at near freefall speed with the limited fires and damaged it sustained on 9-11, only in the United States?  Can you honestly walk away from these facts after viewing and studying them, and still not even feel a twinge of skepticism?


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## sylverfoxx (Feb 11, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> sylverfoxx said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...




Just the fact that Mr Ryan was terminated from UL for suggesting there was an alternate explanation for the collapse, other than "The Official Report", is enough to raise red flags. This alone, aside from the overwhelming evidence of a cover up, is enough to warrant  a thorough independent investigation. 
If there was nothing to hide, then there should be no objections.
Obviously, this is not the case though.


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## Mr. Jones (Feb 11, 2009)

sylverfoxx said:


> Can you show another building, in the history of sky scrapers, that has fallen into itself like WT7 did, due to anything other than a controlled demolition?


 Neither they nor their nutlicking government experts can produce this, yet they trudge along with blinders on afraid to question the BS they have been told.


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## Godboy (Feb 11, 2009)

> You will either be with us, or with the corrupt government traitors, that have destroyed this country and what it stood for.



Id rather be with government traitors than you conspiracy wackos, any day of the week.


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 11, 2009)

Mr. Jones said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > ....
> ...



when you posted it,was Big D there to comment on it? If so,what did HE have to say about it? if not,I sure hope one of his 9/11 apologist buddies pm's him and asks him to come over here and comment on it cause it was posted mainly for him since he worships Gene Corley and Thomas Edgar as the gods of truth on 9/11. falls out of chair laughing. Edgar another one of BIG D's heroes he worships as the god of truth on 9/11, is obviously corrupt,the fact that he even particiapated in a NOVA series on PBS called HOW THE TOWERS FELL should ring fire alarms to BIG D cause PBS and NOVA have propagated that other fairy tale commission -the warren commissions  lies of the kennedy assassination on their programs MANY times over the years.

One of their programs that PBS promoted once that oswald was the lone assassin,showed a photo of oswald in the marine corps by some soldiers of his in his unit.what they FAILED to mention about that photo was that David Ferry a known CIA asset,was right there in that photo next to oswald and that ferrie was oswalds commander in his unit and a known CIA asset for FBI man Guy Bannister. so much for the credibility of PBS and their WHY THE TOWERS FELL special.LOL


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## sylverfoxx (Feb 11, 2009)

Mr. Jones said:


> sylverfoxx said:
> 
> 
> > Can you show another building, in the history of sky scrapers, that has fallen into itself like WT7 did, due to anything other than a controlled demolition?
> ...




Like sheep being led to slaughter!


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 11, 2009)

Godboy said:


> > You will either be with us, or with the corrupt government traitors, that have destroyed this country and what it stood for.
> 
> 
> 
> Id rather be with government traitors than you conspiracy wackos, any day of the week.



the only conspiracy wackos are the conspiracy wackos who believe in the conspiracy THEORY of the 9/11 coverup commission report.


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 11, 2009)

sylverfoxx said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > sylverfoxx said:
> ...


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## Mr. Jones (Feb 11, 2009)

Yeah well they can't explain this latest Chineese hirise fire away. As more time goes by and more things come to light that contradict the BS conspiracy theories of the government, the more people will realize they have been deceived all along. It is just a matter of time.

To any sane and rational observer, which of these buildings would have been the most likely to collapse?




















 And yet it was WTC 7 which collapsed within 7 seconds into its own footprint on 9/11. The Beijing skyscraper, though gutted by fire damage, remains standing.

*How do the debunkers explain away this one? How come NISTs newly invented phenomenon of thermal expansion didnt put paid to the skyscraper in Beijing? Does fire have different properties in China compared to the U.S.? Does it behave in different ways depending on what country its in?*   

Remember that WTC 7 was structurally reinforced and suffered limited fires across just 8 floors.

The core of NISTs explanation, that an extraordinary event called thermal expansion was to blame for the sudden total collapse of WTC 7 is of course on the face of it a fraud when one considers the innumerable number of buildings that have suffered roaring fires across the majority of their floors and remained standing, whereas WTC 7 suffered limited fire damage across a handful of floors.

The Beijing skyscraper fire provides yet more comparable evidence to illustrate the monolithic hoax that fire damage alone can cause buildings to collapse implosion style, adding more weight to the argument that both WTC 7 and the twin towers were destroyed by explosives that were seen and heard by dozens of eyewitnesses who were at ground zero.
Still Standing: The Building That Proves WTC 7 Was Imploded


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## sylverfoxx (Feb 11, 2009)

*How do the debunkers explain away this one? How come NISTs newly invented phenomenon of thermal expansion didnt put paid to the skyscraper in Beijing? Does fire have different properties in China compared to the U.S.? Does it behave in different ways depending on what country its in?



Fire does indeed behave differently, depending on whether it`s being investigated by a Zionist shill, trying to hide something, or if it`s being investigated by someone interested in the TRUTH.
Fire can behave in mysterious ways when it is intended to cover up the truth.*


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## DiveCon (Feb 11, 2009)

you have to realize that Bejing building was built AFTER 9/11
you dont think they took what happened on 9/11 into consideration in the design and construction?


you guys are fucking morons if you dont think they did


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## eots (Feb 11, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> you have to realize that Bejing building was built AFTER 9/11
> you dont think they took what happened on 9/11 into consideration in the design and construction?
> 
> 
> you guys are fucking morons if you dont think they did



do have any proof of this ? any credible link.. any new construction laws or standards due to 911


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW6Oez7pag0]YouTube - "How the Towers Fell" (1 of 13)-Architect Richard Gage[/ame]


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## DiveCon (Feb 11, 2009)

yeah, have you seen how WTC7 was rebuilt?


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## Toro (Feb 11, 2009)

sylverfoxx said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



Can you show me another building that stood beside 2 110-story towers that were hit with airplanes causing them to collapse unto themselves?

And can you show me a building that was half as tall as the twin towers that were demolished with charges planted over a weekend by very few people - which is the theory of the conspiracists - even though large buildings that are demolished take many weeks to plant explosives and done so by hundreds of people?


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 11, 2009)

Toro said:


> sylverfoxx said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...


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## DiveCon (Feb 11, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> so THATS your pitiful comeback? THATS the best you can do? I already proved in the last three pages with the help of Eots, sylverfoxx and mr jones explosives brought the towers down.If your not going to read my posts that I made then Im not going to repeat myself for you just cause you choose to do that.


 uh, where did you prove that
you did no such thing
because it wasnt


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## Mr. Jones (Feb 11, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> you have to realize that Bejing building was built AFTER 9/11
> you dont think they took what happened on 9/11 into consideration in the design and construction?
> 
> 
> you guys are fucking morons if you dont think they did


 Yes your right. 2 things they probably did take into consideration. They made sure there were no cutter charges placed in the building, and Larry Silverstein didn't own and insure them.  What a pathetic apologist you are. Don't you know that they wouldn't have to do anything different in its construction, as this is only a strange phenomena that only happens to buildings in the USA. 







NISTs explanation for the collapse of World Trade Center 7 on September 11th follows the logic in the cartoon above.

Specifically, NIST claims that the collapse of building 7 is the first known instance of fire causing the total collapse of a tall building.

But then goes on to argue:

The fires in WTC 7, which were uncontrolled but otherwise similar to fires experienced in other tall buildings, caused an extraordinary event

In fact, the fires in WTC 7 were orders of magnitude less than other high-rise fires, which did not produce collapses.
NIST: Then a Miracle Occurs

 If they told you that it was just discovered that there was an error in calculations the past few centuries, and told you that the Earth was actually flat, ( to justify another lie of course) you would be one of the first morons to dig into that bowl of bullshit with the biggest spoon. I can't believe we walk amongst idiots like yourself out there everyday. ROFLMAO 

I bet none of those Chinamen standing by watching it burn, were even told to "run because if there is a_nother_ explosion, the building will come down"
You are quick to pull an assumption out of your ass when it suits you, that they built this building differently because of what happened on 9-11, but despite all the glaring discrepancies and out right contradictions concerning the laws of science and physics, in the official conspiracy theory, you will not assume that the governments story is a flat out lie.
"And the fact that bushs brother was running the company that was charged with security for the WT complex as well as Dulles airport and United airlines is just fate or the fact that the bull-shit piece that Pop Mechs published had Michael Chertoffs cousin in charge of research and info or the BBc broadcasting the fall of WTC-7 32 mins before it falls, along with CNNlets ask the six of nineteen suspects who have been proven to be well not-dead, why none of their names are on any passenger list. Do you not have the comprehension skills to do the research? *Willful ignorance is a glittering example of a lack of guts and integrity." *
CEO citizens eyes open Reply:
February 11th, 2009 at 5:09 am
I couldn't have said it any better.


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 11, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> Mr. Jones said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



Hey Mr Jones,you didn't answer my question I asked you here.


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 11, 2009)

Mr. Jones said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > you have to realize that Bejing building was built AFTER 9/11
> ...



LOL. great post.especially The first paragragh.that was priceless mr jones.LOL.I know.He is hysterical.He NEVER considers any of that stuff.Like you said so well,if the government officials all of a sudden told him that the they made an error in their calculations and the earth was actually flat,he would be the first idiot in line spoon fork and plate swallowing it immediately with no questions to them.


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## Big_D (Feb 11, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> sylverfoxx said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...


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## Big_D (Feb 11, 2009)

This was posted in another thread but i never got around to responding to it.  I thought that it was best to tackle it here.



Mr. Jones said:


> Ok fellas, I can appreciate the questions you all ask, and I readily admit, they are pretty good questions, ie: how the devices were planted, and the amount of people necessary to pull the event off. What I like about those questions is that it at least shows that you guys are thinking about this and in turn makes me think and look into it more. Debate is good and necessary, something experts on both sides need to do, in a public forum, hell if a debate were to be televised with both sides bringing their opinions and hypotheses I bet the ratings would shoot through the roof. But damn it you can't expect one side to have all the answers, the government hasn't even provided what we want or need to know. I think we should change course a bit and see what we DO agree with concerning 9-11. Like, do all agree that this was the first time in history that 3 buildings were totally demolished by fire? Can we agree that the gov has changed its story of the events? Can we agree that there are a shit load of very suspicious or coincidental things that occurred before and after the wtc came down. And can we agree that many documented televised interviews with survivors say that they heard explosions coming from the basements of these buildings?
> I'm just throwing this suggestion out there because we seem to get sidetracked and bounce from one thing to another and it makes it hard to stay focused. I want you all to keep this in mind regarding 9-11 about me personally, I initially believed the official story was plausible, but I kept viewing the videos of the destruction, and it It looks like there is a tremendous amount of energy exploding out ward, and the thing that most makes me skeptical of the govs version is the FACT that the towers came down at free fall speed with the bottom solid structure providing nearly NO resistance!! So what  if anything CAN we agree on about all this and let's go from there? Your thoughts??



First of all I will admit that everyone whom I have debated has brought up a number of good points, just not enough for me to change my standpoint.  However, I believe that the difference between the conspiracy theorists believers and the skeptics are the way we seem to look at an issue.  Take the demolition theory of the WTC buildings for example.  I seem to get the impression that the conspiracy theorists (I don't mean to point out Eots, 9/11 inside job, or yourself in particular) believe that the buildings were brought down through a controlled demolition because people thought they heard explosions and other reasons.  Meanwhile, the skeptics look at the issue from a different stand point.  Instead of looking at it like, "the towers fell because people heard explosions."  Meanwhile, we seem to look at it like, "IF the towers were blown up then workers had to place explosives and wires and nobody has came forward to show evidence of this nor that it was in the debris."  In my own opinion, ALL areas of this issue have to be proven BEFORE we make the claim that explosives brought down the towers or the argument isn't going to hold much weight.


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## DiveCon (Feb 11, 2009)

Mr. Jones said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > you have to realize that Bejing building was built AFTER 9/11
> ...


only there is ZERO evidence of such charges in WTC7
and none anywhere on the WTC site


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## eots (Feb 11, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Mr. Jones said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



do you have proof of this claim ?


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## DiveCon (Feb 11, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Mr. Jones said:
> ...


you have it backwards again
its up to you to provide proof there was


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## eots (Feb 11, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J8ojEWlkrs]YouTube - 9/11 CONSPIRACY:WERE THERMITE SHAPE CHARGES USED AT THE WTC?[/ame]


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## DiveCon (Feb 11, 2009)

eots said:


> YouTube - 9/11 CONSPIRACY:WERE THERMITE SHAPE CHARGES USED AT THE WTC?


thats not proof
in fact, those are all lies


clearly, that beam was cut, but the question is WHEN
most likely as part of the CLEANUP 
they did do that ya know


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 11, 2009)

Big_D said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > sylverfoxx said:
> ...


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## eots (Feb 11, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9qEIlNVl5s&feature=related]YouTube - 911 Molten Metal - Who is lying? FDNY eyewitnesses or NIST?[/ame]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-99CLdHWCc&feature=related]YouTube - Ground Zero ironworkers on 9/11 anomalies[/ame]


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 11, 2009)

This folks is why you are wasting your time bothering with Big D.At first i thought he was interested in learning the truth cause he was asking questions all the time but then when he started ignoring facts like the ones myself and you guys posted in the last three pages that prove explosives brought the towers down, like all the other 9/11 apologists do he ignored the facts,After that I realised he is just a dis info agent.
The others here are just plain ignorant.Him? He isnt ignorant.He knows explosives brought the towers down but he wont admit it cause he is a dis info agent.Now all the other 9/11 apologists that have posted here are just plain ignorant,I would expect THEM to stay in denial about it still after watching these videos after reading their posts.Big D though is smarter than them so I figured HE would be mature enough to admit the obvious that explosives brought the towers down after watching these videos.Obviously I was wrong.

Here of course is the link I supplied him not once,not twice,but THRICE a few weeks ago that has a bunch of videos you can watch where the evidence is overwhelming that explosives brought the towers down,that only a complete idiot moron after watching these videos would say-"that proves nothing." of course Big D STILL cant admit it that I have proved that.THIS is why I wont bother with him anymore.the evidence in these videos as Eots has seen before,shows FACTS that prove explosives brought the towers down.here it is as you see.
Canada 9/11 Truth - Videos

especially watch 9/11 mysteries and 9/11 in plane site.the link there to THOSE two videos doesnt work but you can google that in at youtube and watch them folks.


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## Toro (Feb 11, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> so THATS your pitiful comeback? THATS the best you can do? I already proved in the last three pages  with the help of Eots, sylverfoxx and mr jones  explosives brought the towers down.If your not going to read my posts that I made then Im not going to repeat myself for you just cause you choose to do that.



You have proven no such thing.

Demolition of a large building is an enormously complex task which can take months or even years to plan and execute.  Yet, we are to believe that over a weekend, when the buildings were "powered down," people whom no one witnessed entered the building and supposedly planted charges in both buildings, a task which can take weeks or even months to implement in a 20 or 30 story building.  Not only that, these demolition experts not only were able to do what usually takes weeks if not months to wire not one but two of the largest free standing structures in the world, they did so incorrectly since the alleged charges were set halfway up the buildings, not at the lower levels were demolition experts wire structures to be destroyed.


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## elvis (Feb 11, 2009)

Toro said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > so THATS your pitiful comeback? THATS the best you can do? I already proved in the last three pages  with the help of Eots, sylverfoxx and mr jones  explosives brought the towers down.If your not going to read my posts that I made then Im not going to repeat myself for you just cause you choose to do that.
> ...




If they had been controlled demolitions, the debris would have made a mound-shape.  They wouldn't have gone God knows how many blocks down the street.  And if the government was behind the attack, why not implicate Iraqis?


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## Big_D (Feb 11, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> Big_D said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...


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## Big_D (Feb 11, 2009)

Toro said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > so THATS your pitiful comeback? THATS the best you can do? I already proved in the last three pages  with the help of Eots, sylverfoxx and mr jones  explosives brought the towers down.If your not going to read my posts that I made then Im not going to repeat myself for you just cause you choose to do that.
> ...



Exactly!  It took a demolition company about a month to wire up one building far smaller than one of the WTC buildings.  Plus, this was obviously empty and the company never had to worry about hiding the wires or any of the demolition equipment.  To wire up the WTC buildings, a team might even had to take years while hiding all equipment.  Meanwhile, nobody has came forward with evidence of this.  Wouldn't anyone think that someone would find something?  As I said there would be miles upon miles of cords at the debris and since cameras were rolling 24/7 it is impossible to have this not be shown.


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## DiveCon (Feb 11, 2009)

Big_D said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...


well, of course, they had to use the WiFi explosives


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## eots (Feb 11, 2009)

Big_D said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



there would of been wires of all kinds in such a building this is a ridiculous statement
miles of all kinds of wires..unless specifically looking for such evidence ..it would not be noticed...the rest is all assumptions..we know the official story can not be true...so what caused those 3 buildings to fall that day is the only real question


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## Big_D (Feb 11, 2009)

eots said:


> Big_D said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...



Like I said there video recording of the debris would have shown this.  It would be all over the internet by now.


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## DiveCon (Feb 11, 2009)

eots said:


> Big_D said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...


so you think they used wires other than demo wires?


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## Toro (Feb 11, 2009)

eots said:


> Big_D said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...



When he says "wire up," he's not meaning there aren't any wires in the building.  What he is saying is that the explosives are all wired to each other.  I have lots of wires underneath my table but none of them are wires to destroy my house.

I don't think you work in an office environment, but I do, and when there are people doing any maintenance or construction work, it is very evident.  If someone was wiring the building, it would have taken far longer than a weekend and people would have noticed it.

And I'll state again, had the building been wired, demolitionists wire buildings in the lower floors.  They do not wire the buildings mid-way up, which is where the alleged explosions occurred.


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## sylverfoxx (Feb 11, 2009)

Toro said:


> sylverfoxx said:
> 
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So you answer a question  with a question ............. typical.

Well , maybe you can explain why WTC 1 didn`t collapse from the 1975 fire which burned for three hours ............ as opposed to the fifty six minute fire on 911.
According to the NYT  it was an "intense" fire  involving 10 or more floors and at the time there was no sprinkler system installed.
 Firefighters report "It was like fighting a blow torch".
Hmmm .....  same building, same peril (fire), different outcome. Perhaps some other factors were involved on 911? Surely not. Because the "official" report said so. What a pathetic joke. And you idiots bought it hook line and sinker.


The World Trade Center Fires.

(Link may not work) ?


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## DiveCon (Feb 11, 2009)

sylverfoxx said:


> Toro said:
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because in 75 it didnt have a plane crash in the center of it and take out the structual integrity


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## manu1959 (Feb 11, 2009)

DiveCon said:


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ah shit....details..........


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## DiveCon (Feb 11, 2009)

manu1959 said:


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funny how that is


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## sylverfoxx (Feb 11, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> manu1959 said:
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So in order for "thermal expansion" to take place there must first be structural damage.
Oh that clears it all up ........... three buildings collapse into themselves in the exact same manor. Two sustained structural damage....... one did not. 
If WTC 7 had not been involved then the theory _might_ have been plausible but thats where the wheels fell off the whole bullshit story.
Ya can`t have it both ways. 
If fire is what caused the implosion of WTC 7  then fire would also have caused WTC 1 to implode in 1975.
Bottom line is the whole thing is a bullshit cover up and none of it happened as the "official" report  states.


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## DiveCon (Feb 12, 2009)

sylverfoxx said:


> DiveCon said:
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WTC7 had structural damage from the other towers FALLING into it
you guys are fucking morons that continue with this bullshit


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## sylverfoxx (Feb 12, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> sylverfoxx said:
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If you honestly believe that WTC 7 could collapse into itself from debris falling into it then I`m afraid you`re the fucking moron.


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## DiveCon (Feb 12, 2009)

sylverfoxx said:


> DiveCon said:
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NO you IDIOT
it was from a COMBINATION of events


this is why you morons get CALLED morons


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## sylverfoxx (Feb 12, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> sylverfoxx said:
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You`re damned right it was from a COMBINATION of events.

It`s called  "Controlled Demolition"  or as you dipshit Zionists would say  "We made the decision to PULL the building" .


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## DiveCon (Feb 12, 2009)

sylverfoxx said:


> DiveCon said:
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another thing, you guys lie so fucking much


why would Silverstien be telling the fire marshall to blow up the building?
in fire fighter terms to "pull the building" mean to get EVERYONE the fuck out
it comes from the days before radios when they would "pull the hose" as a warning
so stop your lying about that


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## Godboy (Feb 12, 2009)

Still trying to teach the loonies, eh DiveCon? That must be a difficult job when your teaching people who dont understand what "facts" are, regardless how many times you go over it with them. This shouldnt be called the "Conspiracy Zone", it should be the "Slow Learners Who Suffer From Insanity Zone".


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 12, 2009)

sylverfoxx said:


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## elvis (Feb 12, 2009)

sylverfoxx said:


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take things out of context much?


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 12, 2009)

Toro said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > You have proven no such thing.
> ...


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 12, 2009)

thanks for all the 9/11 videos you post Eots.I know "I" really appreciate them.The others obviously never watch them just like they never watched any of my canadawantsthetruth videos but just know that people like myself who dont let the government brainwash them with their lies and propaganda really appreciate them.Also, thanks for those kennedy videos as well on that other thread.


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## eots (Feb 12, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> thanks for all the 9/11 videos you post Eots.I know "I" really appreciate them.The others obviously never watch them just like they never watched any of my canadawantsthetruth videos but just know that people like myself who dont let the government brainwash them with their lies and propaganda really appreciate them.Also, thanks for those kennedy videos as well on that other thread.



thank you..my Friend..


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## sylverfoxx (Feb 12, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


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Ever pull your head out of your ass?


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 12, 2009)

eots said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > thank you..my Friend..
> ...


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 12, 2009)

eots said:


> YouTube - 911 Molten Metal - Who is lying? FDNY eyewitnesses or NIST?
> 
> 
> YouTube - Ground Zero ironworkers on 9/11 anomalies



this is REALLY a great video.The 9/11 apologists will of course say this video doesnt prove explosives went off.Its a known fact that half the ground zero workers have died from health problems and have experienced major breathing problems since 9/11 and that the white house phoned Gulliani to tell them the air was all right to breath and masks were not needed and that the air was clear and knew it wasnt  and that bastard Gulliani went ahead and told all the new yorkers it was safe.of course they will live in their fantasys and come up with some ludicrous explantion to avoid admitting explosives were not planted cause their in so much denial as we both know.Pretty pathetic.


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## DiveCon (Feb 12, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > YouTube - 911 Molten Metal - Who is lying? FDNY eyewitnesses or NIST?
> ...


why am i not surprised you would lie like that
LOL

typical troofer


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## DiveCon (Feb 12, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


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he's a typical lying troofer


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## DiveCon (Feb 12, 2009)

sylverfoxx said:


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you shopuld try it, it's amazing how much better things smell when you dont have rectal/cranial inversion, like so many troofers do


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 12, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> This folks is why you are wasting your time bothering with Big D.At first i thought he was interested in learning the truth cause he was asking questions all the time but then when he started ignoring facts like the ones myself and you guys posted in the last three pages that prove explosives brought the towers down, like all the other 9/11 apologists do he ignored the facts,After that I realised he is just a dis info agent.
> The others here are just plain ignorant.Him? He isnt ignorant.He knows explosives brought the towers down but he wont admit it cause he is a dis info agent.Now all the other 9/11 apologists that have posted here are just plain ignorant,I would expect THEM to stay in denial about it still after watching these videos after reading their posts.Big D though is smarter than them so I figured HE would be mature enough to admit the obvious that explosives brought the towers down after watching these videos.Obviously I was wrong.
> 
> Here of course is the link I supplied him not once,not twice,but THRICE a few weeks ago that has a bunch of videos you can watch where the evidence is overwhelming that explosives brought the towers down,that only a complete idiot moron after watching these videos would say-"that proves nothing." of course Big D STILL cant admit it that I have proved that.THIS is why I wont bother with him anymore.the evidence in these videos as Eots has seen before,shows FACTS that prove explosives brought the towers down.here it is as you see.
> ...



Like always,I post this video link  for you 9/11 apologists to watch vidoes of and like always I never get a response from you guys about it saying you'll look at it or comment on it.I posted it many times for BIG D AND DIVECON to look at a month or so ago but they never looked at it cause they dont want to.nobody ever bothered to look at these videos either when i first joined an introduced myself in the welcome section and asked them to look at these videos.they just called me a bunch of names and crap like that cause like you guys,their afraid of the truth as well and also dont want to look at the truth by watching these videos.I proved you guys are  afraid of the truth right there.I rest my case.


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## DiveCon (Feb 12, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > This folks is why you are wasting your time bothering with Big D.At first i thought he was interested in learning the truth cause he was asking questions all the time but then when he started ignoring facts like the ones myself and you guys posted in the last three pages that prove explosives brought the towers down, like all the other 9/11 apologists do he ignored the facts,After that I realised he is just a dis info agent.
> ...


i have already watched your stupid fucking video
they are full of lies and twisted crap
i stopped doing it because you guys have ZERO credibility


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## Toro (Feb 12, 2009)

sylverfoxx said:


> It`s called  "Controlled Demolition"  or as you dipshit Zionists would say  "We made the decision to PULL the building" .



The term "pull" is not used to destroy a building.

http://www.implosionworld.com/Article-WTC STUDY 8-06 w clarif as of 9-8-06 .pdf


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## Toro (Feb 12, 2009)

sylverfoxx said:


> Toro said:
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And you do not answer the question.

Here was the process to destroy the world's largest building to be demolished at the time.



> CDI&#8217;s 12 person loading crew took twenty four days to place 4,118 separate charges in 1,100 locations on columns on nine levels of the complex. Over 36,000 ft of detonating cord and 4,512 non-electric delay elements were installed in CDI&#8217;s implosion initiation system, some to create the 36 primary implosion sequence and another 216 micro-delays to keep down the detonation overpressure from the 2,728 lb of explosives which would be detonated during the demolition.



Controlled Demolition, Inc. | Buildings

Yet, supposedly, over a weekend, a group of people nobody saw went in and planted enough charges to destroy two of the largest free standing structures in the world.


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## DiveCon (Feb 12, 2009)

Toro said:


> sylverfoxx said:
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and dont forget a 3rd 47 story building as well


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## DiveCon (Feb 12, 2009)

Toro said:


> sylverfoxx said:
> 
> 
> > It`s called  "Controlled Demolition"  or as you dipshit Zionists would say  "We made the decision to PULL the building" .
> ...


actually, it is, but not for an explosive demolition

its when they actually attach cables to pull over an already prestressed building


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## Toro (Feb 12, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> and dont forget a 3rd 47 story building as well



Right.  I forgot.  Thank you.

Hey Divecon, what did you do with all the money the government paid you to be a denier?  I blew all mine on booze and cheap women.


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## DiveCon (Feb 12, 2009)

Toro said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > and dont forget a 3rd 47 story building as well
> ...


they promised me the first starship


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## Big_D (Feb 12, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> Toro said:
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> > 9/11 inside job said:
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## Big_D (Feb 12, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > This folks is why you are wasting your time bothering with Big D.At first i thought he was interested in learning the truth cause he was asking questions all the time but then when he started ignoring facts like the ones myself and you guys posted in the last three pages that prove explosives brought the towers down, like all the other 9/11 apologists do he ignored the facts,After that I realised he is just a dis info agent.
> ...



Now you keep saying that I am ignoring the videos you posted.  I *DID *indeed watch a number of them.  In fact, I have spent HOURS viewing the information that you and others have posted.  As I keep saying, this is not fact but speculation.  Throughout the entire loose change videos claims were made that were not backed up.  I bet they only said the words "according to" less than ten times throughout the two hour film.  They also leave out numerous things issues and are more of the skeptics stronger points.


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## DiveCon (Feb 12, 2009)

Big_D said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
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[youtube]Afb7eUHr64U&eurl[/youtube]


yeah, just "minor fires"


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## Toro (Feb 12, 2009)

Big_D said:


> Also, I don't know how you can state anyone rambles when you have been on record of saying that Obama might have been informed of the attacks at the time when they happened when he happened to be just a state senator at the time.



Really?  He said that? Are you kidding?



Yes, I understand that _all_ state senators in every state were informed of the attacks.  Hilarious.

BTW 9/11 inside job, when people wire a building for demolition it takes them weeks *working full-time doing so.*  And that is for one building far smaller than the three WTC complexes.  To wire the buildings at the WTC would have taken many, many people working all the time for weeks on end.  Yet, they stealthily were able to do so with nary a person noticing.  Amazing.


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## eots (Feb 12, 2009)

DiveCon said:


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yes those fires are minor and do not explain the collapse of wtc 7


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## DiveCon (Feb 12, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
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you are a fucking JOKE if you call those "small fires"
it was an inferno
also that video showed the other damage
it totally blows all your bullshit out of the water


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## eots (Feb 12, 2009)

those fires where nothing relative to other building fires ....but you just keep pretending


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## DiveCon (Feb 13, 2009)

eots said:


> those fires where nothing relative to other building fires ....but you just keep pretending


you are just brain dead
it wasnt JUST the fires asshole
it was the way the building was built combined with the damage done by the north tower falling into it and the fires


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## eots (Feb 13, 2009)

Toro said:


> sylverfoxx said:
> 
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no one said it was over a weekend ...but you..and we do not know if standered demolition techniques where used..this is  why a real and fact driven investigation is required


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## eots (Feb 13, 2009)

beijing Skyscraper Fire: The Silence Is Deafening 

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Thursday, February 12, 2009



Three days after a towering inferno engulfed a 500 foot skyscraper in Beijing, debunkers have failed to come up with any answers as to why the building remained standing in comparison with WTC 7, which suffered a uniform 7 second implosion as a result of limited fires spread across just 8 floors on 9/11.

Beijing&#8217;s Mandarin Oriental hotel defied all known physics on Monday when it was consumed by fires but did not collapse, a modern day miracle in light of the commonly accepted premise that since 9/11, all steel buildings that suffer even limited fire damage implode in on their own footprint within seconds.

http://www.infowars.com/beijing-skyscraper-fire-the-silence-is-deafening/


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## DiveCon (Feb 13, 2009)

eots said:


> beijing Skyscraper Fire: The Silence Is Deafening
> 
> Paul Joseph Watson
> Prison Planet.com
> ...


again, WTC7's collapse wasnt JUST FROM THE FIRES


btw, why dont you EVER use a legit source for your stories, its always Alex Jones BULLSHIT


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## elvis (Feb 13, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > beijing Skyscraper Fire: The Silence Is Deafening
> ...



yeah a 110 story building collapses and damages WTC7, but that's not significant at all.


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## DiveCon (Feb 13, 2009)

Fire rages at Beijing luxury hotel after fireworks

the building wasnt even finished


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## DiveCon (Feb 13, 2009)

Mandarin Oriental Hotel Beijing


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## DiveCon (Feb 13, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
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> > eots said:
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yeah, a 110 story building falls over and into a 47 story building and that isnt supposed to do any damage
yet when they rebuilt WTC7 they made it taller and completely different in construction, but that had NOTHING to do with the reasons it fell in the first place


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## eots (Feb 13, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> elvis3577 said:
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why did the building not take the path of least Resistance and fall in the direction of the damaged section...how could it fall in 8 secs..how did every single truss give way at the exact same moment Even tho fires and damage where inconsitent...the towers and wtc where not of the same construction..yet they all suffered the same result


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## elvis (Feb 13, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
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go to a physics message board.  they will explain it to you.  They explained it to me.  it wasnt a controlled demolition.


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## DiveCon (Feb 13, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
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it DID take the path of least resistance
it did NOT fall straight down like Alex Jones keeps saying
how many times do you have to be told to stop listening to that fucking liar


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## DiveCon (Feb 13, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> eots said:
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no no no

they are all in on it


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## elvis (Feb 13, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
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In a demolition, there would have been a MOUND of debris.  It wouldn't have travelled the several blocks down the street the way it did.  David Ray Griffin is an expert in THEOLOGY.  I am not going to take his word over and expert in STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING when it comes to how the towers collapsed.


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## DiveCon (Feb 13, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
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> > eots said:
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oh, i know
it fell over into WTC6 and the streets all around it
and that is proven by the fact the south face is ON TOP of the pile


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## elvis (Feb 13, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> elvis3577 said:
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I must be getting tired. I thought I had quoted eots, sorry.


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## DiveCon (Feb 13, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> DiveCon said:
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no prob


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## eots (Feb 13, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
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you say Alex Jones even tho you know that is not the case .../the buildings indeed did fall all but straight down within seconeds...all this can be seen..no one has to tell you


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD06SAf0p9A]YouTube - wtc 7 collapse[/ame]




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwjmqkjwnvQ&feature=related]YouTube - WTC7 - Incriminating evidence[/ame]

*  squibs*
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmDGe-w60jk[/ame]




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmL9F-TSIes&NR=1]YouTube - 9/11 Building 7 Close Up[/ame]


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## DiveCon (Feb 13, 2009)

they did not you moron
that video is but ONE angle
and you can even tell it is falling AWAY from the camera


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## elvis (Feb 13, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
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straight down?  is that why there were blocks of debris instead of a MOUND?


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## eots (Feb 13, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> they did not you moron
> that video is but ONE angle
> and you can even tell it is falling AWAY from the camera



it falls slightly in one direction not uncommon in a controlled demolition ..it* does not *however fall slightly toward the damaged area..so that is really no answer...


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## DiveCon (Feb 13, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > they did not you moron
> ...


you are NUTS
it fell over completely in the direction of the damage


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## eots (Feb 13, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
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a better question is how all the concrete was pulverized to dust ?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRCb8pB6iBg]YouTube - 911 WTC debris[/ame]


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## DiveCon (Feb 13, 2009)

eots said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
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> > eots said:
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which has nothing to do with WTC7


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 13, 2009)

Toro said:


> Big_D said:
> 
> 
> > Also, I don't know how you can state anyone rambles when you have been on record of saying that Obama might have been informed of the attacks at the time when they happened when he happened to be just a state senator at the time.
> ...



so THIS is your latest pitiful comeback to my challenge of watching those 47 videos at that canadawants the truth site and addressing those videos that prove explosives went off? The  9/11 apologists like you and Big D ALWAYS have some kind of pitiful comeback to deny you have been proven wrong.I already explained how they did it without noticing,you just want to ignore it.

 I didnt disagree about the many people-I said around 200.thats about right and I never said it didnt take weeks on end,I said it would take a couple months or so.That IS many  weeks on end.plus your putting words in my mouth.Just because I said Obama MIGHT have been informed of the attacks when they happened,doesnt mean I believe EVERY state senator was informed.

Thats being completely ignorant to rule out the possiblity that Obama MIGHT have been informed about it as well especially when Clinton committed many autrocities as governor of arkansas that was suppressed by the CIA controlled media before he became president that most people did not know about.Cant believe you would listen to that dis in fo agent Big D when he is a proven liar that  Kevin Ryan wasnt fired for speaking out against 9/11 when everybody in the research community knows he WAS.

What are you going to swallow next from Big D,the smear campaine lies the government has going against Wille Rodriguez who testified to the 9/11 commission and was backed up by co workers that explosives went off in the basements before the plane struck,that he is seeking only money for that and other 9/11 witnesses have discredited him when they havent? that and many other lies such as kevin ryan being fired by UL for a different reason other than saying 9/11 was an inside job are being churned out by dis in fo agents like Big D CONSTANTLY on message boards that you guys blindly gobble up.Like Eots just said and what I said before,go to a huge tall building sometime and drop a slab of concrete off the side and see if that slab PULVERIZES to dust.It wont happen.It will break off into tiny chunks for sure but it sure wont pulverize.


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 13, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> thanks for showing your in complete denial as usual.Bush admits it out of a slip of the tongue and like the 9/11 apologist you are, you STILL grasp at straws to convince yourself  explosives never went off.how pitiful.Only in your fairy tale land do you have science on your side.In the REAL world you dont.AGAIN the REAL experts who built the towers designed the towers with that in mind of a jet aircraft accidently crashing into it at 600 mph and anticipated the fires.the airliners were clocked at speeds of 440 and 550.
> 
> John Skilling the lead designer said after the 93 bombing when interviewed about the towers that if an airliner struck the towers,there would be a great loss of life due to fires but the structure itself would remain standing.  Not only THAT but there is a video out made in jan 2001  before 9/11 that was aired on the history channel  called MODERN MARVELS where the on site manager Frank Demartini  back then said that the towers were  OVER DESIGNED to take a hit from a jet airliner.That the building could sustain MULTIPLE hits from airline and would STILL remain standing.I have posted if before and that frady cat divecon didnt even bother to watch it.so I know you wont either seeing how you dismiss the proof of what Bush said.
> 
> ...



since you ignored this post before Toro,here it is for you again.and please dont come back with that lame ass explanation about wiring when I already addressed that for you.That comeback doesnt disprove those 9/11 videos from that canada wants the truth site  I have posted COUNTLESS numbers of times in the past and a couple of times here on this thread at LEAST twice that you 9/11 apologists never watch or address.


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## 007 (Feb 13, 2009)

Has anyone ever actually heard a concrete foundation give way. I have. I used to tear down old barns with a couple friends as a business to rescue the old barn boards, which were used to make some very cool furniture. But we'd topple the skeleton of the barn and then burn it, and I've heard a couple of the old cement foundations buckle, and when they do, it's a loud pop or boom that could very well be mistaken for an explosion. Now multiply that sound by thousands because of the difference in size and weight of a fifty story high building, and when that concrete in the bottom gives way, it's going to give off a REALLY loud bang or boom. That's what people heard, and that's why the 9/11 conspiracy people say "the government blew up the building," which is about the most absurd thing I think I've ever heard in the way of conspiracy theories.


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 13, 2009)

so another 9/11 apologist in denial I see.watch these 47 videos,watch at least one a day here at this site-
Canadians Demand 9/11 Truth and you will see how idiotic it is to defend the fairy tale 9/11 commission report.Plus you didnt even bother looking at my last post.


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## DiveCon (Feb 13, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> so another 9/11 apologist in denial I see.watch these 47 videos,watch at least one a day here at this site-
> Canadians Demand 9/11 Truth and you will see how idiotic it is to defend the fairy tale 9/11 commission report.Plus you didnt even bother looking at my last post.


the thing you nutters miss is that not one of us are defending the 9/11 commission
you are a fucking moron to keep claiming that


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## Godboy (Feb 13, 2009)

So let me get this straight. You are saying that Bush and his cronies made a plan to blow up buildings in New York, and when their demolitions expert planned the collapse of the buildings, he decided to make it a picture perfect demolition? We all have seen how perfectly the buildings fell, so my question is...why would they make THAT part of their plan? Why not make them collapse by falling to the side in devastating fashion? Why would they give people any reasons to question it? 

You guys seem to lack the ability to apply logic to these situations. I already know none of you will have a reasnable answer to those questions, so you really dont have to bother trying, im just pointing it out on the off chance you come to your senses. I wont hold my breath though.


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## elvis (Feb 13, 2009)

Godboy said:


> So let me get this straight. You are saying that Bush and his cronies made a plan to blow up buildings in New York, and when their demolitions expert planned the collapse of the buildings, he decided to make it a picture perfect demolition? We all have seen how perfectly the buildings fell, so my question is...why would they make THAT part of their plan? Why not make them collapse by falling to the side in devastating fashion? Why would they give people any reasons to question it?
> 
> You guys seem to lack the ability to apply logic to these situations. I already know none of you will have a reasnable answer to those questions, so you really dont have to bother trying, im just pointing it out on the off chance you come to your senses. I wont hold my breath though.



Well said. If you're trying to set up 9/11,  Why not put explosives at the bottom?  Why use planes at all? Why not set it up so that the buildings topple over??  Why not implicate Iraqis?


----------



## Toro (Feb 13, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> Thats being completely ignorant to rule out the possiblity that Obama MIGHT have been informed about it as well especially when Clinton committed many autrocities as governor of arkansas that was suppressed by the CIA controlled media before he became president that most people did not know about.



Well, that says it all, doesn't it? 

Like DiveCon said, many of you guys will believe any conspiracy theory that comes down the pike, no matter how implausible.

Hey look, it wasn't a plane that hit the WTC.  It was a hologram!

[youtube]ypnFE-IBK7M[/youtube]


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 13, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > So let me get this straight. You are saying that Bush and his cronies made a plan to blow up buildings in New York, and when their demolitions expert planned the collapse of the buildings, he decided to make it a picture perfect demolition? We all have seen how perfectly the buildings fell, so my question is...why would they make THAT part of their plan? Why not make them collapse by falling to the side in devastating fashion? Why would they give people any reasons to question it?
> ...


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 13, 2009)

Toro said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > Thats being completely ignorant to rule out the possiblity that Obama MIGHT have been informed about it as well especially when Clinton committed many autrocities as governor of arkansas that was suppressed by the CIA controlled media before he became president that most people did not know about.
> ...


i told ya


----------



## Big_D (Feb 13, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> What are you going to swallow next from Big D,the smear campaine lies the government has going against Wille Rodriguez who testified to the 9/11 commission and was backed up by co workers that explosives went off in the basements before the plane struck,that he is seeking only money for that and other 9/11 witnesses have discredited him when they havent? that and many other lies such as kevin ryan being fired by UL for a different reason other than saying 9/11 was an inside job are being churned out by dis in fo agents like Big D CONSTANTLY on message boards that you guys blindly gobble up.



I didn't say either of those two things.  I said the people who have supported the hoax have profited from showing this point of view.  Don't you think that Alex Jones is better off now than he was beforehand.  Previously, he was unable to win the republican nomination for office and then was fired from one radio gig.  I also never said kevin ryan was never fired by UL.  I do not know nor care if he was. What I said was the ONLY place I could find this info was on the conspirators website and I pointed out one site that said he was not fired at all for his view on 9/11.

With that being said, I think the two of us should bury the hatchet.  What do you say?


----------



## elvis (Feb 13, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


> 9/11 was a Mossad plan to draw the U.S. into a war against Israel's arab enemys.
> 
> It had the backing of the Zionists who are in control of the American government.



the gospel according to Adolf


----------



## eots (Feb 14, 2009)

[





> QUOTE=Big_D;1043370]
> 
> 
> 
> ...



the  real perpetrators of the 911 official  hoax made billion..snot to mention in was great boom for a outdated magazine like popular mechanics..alex is a excellent broadcaster and interviewer as well as a decent film maker he could do very well with his talents in mainstream media if money was his objective...the things you speak of occurred in his twenty's he is only in his early thirty's now..its hardly anything for a man in his twenty's to be ashamed of ,,just the opposite really




> I also never said kevin ryan was never fired by UL.  I do not know nor care if he was. What I said was the ONLY place I could find this info was on the conspirators website and I pointed out one site that said he was not fired at all for his view on 9/11.



that would be a_ denier _website...so it doesnt count..




> With that being said, I think the two of us should bury the hatchet.  What do you say?


[/QUOTE]

I say seek the truth..and recognize the reality a real and fact driven investigation of the events of 911 is required and has never been done in a satisfactory way or to the standards such a crime deserves...


----------



## Big_D (Feb 14, 2009)

eots said:


> > QUOTE=Big_D;1043370]
> > I didn't say either of those two things.  I said the people who have supported the hoax have profited from showing this point of view.  Don't you think that Alex Jones is better off now than he was beforehand.  Previously, he was unable to win the republican nomination for office and then was fired from one radio gig.
> 
> 
> ...



I can believe all that stuff about alex jones, but one thing is for sure and that is he has cashed in on the tragedy.  



eots said:


> > QUOTE=Big_D;1043370]
> > I also never said kevin ryan was never fired by UL.  I do not know nor care if he was. What I said was the ONLY place I could find this info was on the conspirators website and I pointed out one site that said he was not fired at all for his view on 9/11.
> 
> 
> ...



Why wouldn't it count?  Is it because it has a different point of view from your own?  


eots said:


> > QUOTE=Big_D;1043370]
> >
> >
> > > With that being said, I think the two of us should bury the hatchet.  What do you say?
> ...



Like I said, I have watched hours of the videos on the conspirators websites.  I am not convinced because it leaves out the skeptics toughest arguments, takes countless statements of others way out of context, and it doesn't back up a great number of it claims.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Feb 14, 2009)

eots said:


> the  real perpetrators of the 911 official  hoax made billion..snot to mention in was great boom for a outdated magazine like popular mechanics..alex is a excellent broadcaster and interviewer as well as a decent film maker he could do very well with his talents in mainstream media if money was his objective...the things you speak of occurred in his twenty's he is only in his early thirty's now..its hardly anything for a man in his twenty's to be ashamed of ,,just the opposite really
> 
> 
> 
> ...



hell yeah the real perpetraters made billions.as I have said many times before,cheney and bush profited in the millions from this.that has been documented everywhere.

It wouldnt be a deniar website,it would actually  be a disinformation website.theres a major disinformation campaine going on by the government to discredit people like alex jones and willie rodriguez.they wont kill alex jones cause they know if they do,everybody in the nation that follows him will know the government was behind it.when they cant kill you like they cant with Jones,they try to discredit you, which is what their trying to do with jones right now, only it backfires because their lies dont stand up to the facts so they make themselves look like fools in the process.Jones,has been given death threats to him and his family many times before.

hell yeah the truth needs to be seeked because we have only been given lies and coverups by our government investigation into this.


----------



## eots (Feb 14, 2009)

The Case of American and United Airlines
by Elias Davidsson
GlobalResearch.ca - Centre for Research on Globalization 20 November 2004 
The URL of this article is: Participants in the Cover-Up of 9/11: The Case of American and United Airlines, 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

According to the official account, 19 Arabs hijacked four passenger planes on September 11, 2001 and crashed these planes with passengers and crew onto the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and a field near Shanksville, Pennsylvania. Two of the aircraft belonged to American Airlines and two to United Airlines.

In view of the huge losses incurred by these airlines in terms of human lives and assets, one would have expected them to help shed light on the criminal events.

As will be shown below, the airlines have, on the contrary, refused to disclose crucial evidence to the families of the victims and to the public in general and continue to do so. One of the immediate worries of American Airlines on September 11, 2001, was how to mould information flow to the general public and prevent "rumors" and wrong "theories" to leak out.

A prestigious public-relations agency was put on the scene by AA "minutes after the first crash" to help carry out that communications task. Concurrent to such public-relations efforts, both airlines refused and continue to refuse to disclose the most fundamental data in their possession regarding the murderous events, such as passenger lists and access to eye-witnesses. This evidence suggests airlines&#8217; complicity in covering up the truth on 9/11.
Participants in the Cover-Up of 9/11: The Case of American and United Airlines,


----------



## eots (Feb 14, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdhmAL7weDY]YouTube - 911 Who Knew?[/ame]


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Feb 17, 2009)

awesome video there Eots.more proof the 9/11 apologists cant prove that the Bush administration didnt have prior knowledge that there were plans to fly planes into buildings into new york.Condi Rice and Bush are caught as freaking liars saying-Nobody could have predicted they would have used an airplane as a missle flying it into those e buildings cause as everybody knows,they had war games excercises going on that day stimulating aircrafts used as missles to fly into the trade center towers and the pentagan and General Myers in charge of Norad says there-it enhanced our ability to respond yet that bastard who should have been fired from Norad for allegedly being incompetent which is what the governments explanation is for NORAD not responding like they should have,he doesnt get fired from being General like someone should be for allegedly being incompetent like they say NORAD was,instead Bush goes and PROMOTES him.Not even a slap on the wrist to him.funny how alex jones knew two months prior to 9/11, there were going to be terrorists attacks against the towers as well yet the military didnt huh? of course the 9/11 apologists wont admit they have been proven wrong that it was an inside job.


----------



## Godboy (Feb 17, 2009)

> of course the 9/11 apologists wont admit they have been proven wrong that it was an inside job.




Yes, thats right, the whole world is wrong and you are right. When the world doesnt agree with your wacky ideas, its because they just cant admit being wrong. All the people who lost family members and friends on 9/11 wont admit it was an inside job simply because they dont like the idea of being proven wrong. Every school science teacher who disagrees with your silly notions about metal not weakening from heat, is only doing so because they dont want to be proven wrong. They ALL know your right, they just wont come out and admit it because of their pride. Yes, im sure you are right about this. 

You guys are amazing.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 17, 2009)

Godboy said:


> > of course the 9/11 apologists wont admit they have been proven wrong that it was an inside job.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


these morons are a very small minority
only about 4.7% of the population believe the bullshit they do
of course Eots will C&P a bunch of people that he cant even prove a danmed thing about as if they believe the same thing he does
but the one constant i have seen from troofers is they LIE and they LIE a LOT


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Feb 17, 2009)

Godboy said:


> > of course the 9/11 apologists wont admit they have been proven wrong that it was an inside job.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



YOUR the one that has the arrogant attitude that the whole world is wrong and you are right kid.if you werent so afraid of the truth you and read alternative news sources and looked at those canada  vidoes you wont look at,you would know there are people in high levels of government around the wolrd who know it was an inside job.half of new york knows it was an inside job,even the mainstream media that you worship admitted that in time magazine.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 17, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > > of course the 9/11 apologists wont admit they have been proven wrong that it was an inside job.
> ...


and where is the proof that half of New York thinks it was an inside job?
that is just another lie from morons like you


----------



## eots (Feb 17, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OByy7H7iqhQ]YouTube - 9/11 truth 2008 protest new york city september 11 2008[/ame]


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 17, 2009)

eots said:


> YouTube - 9/11 truth 2008 protest new york city september 11 2008


i watched about 1 minute in, and as usual that doesnt prove anything but you have a small but loud group of fucking morons


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Feb 18, 2009)

eots said:


> YouTube - 9/11 truth 2008 protest new york city september 11 2008



great video there Eots.further proof there is an awakening going on about the truth of it being an inside job.further proof that people from all over the world know it was an inside job with that guy saying there were people  from all over the world there that day.theres definetly an awakening going on around the country.last sunday night on HARDBALL with chris matthews,they even flashed across a message at the bottom of the screen-NEW POLL SHOWS 62% WANT BUSH ADMINISTRATION INVESTIGATED FOR ILLEGALITIES.

so much for the 9/11 apologists false claims that only 5% of the nation think it was an inside job.they were even announcing on FOX NEWS that his popularity as president was only at 10%,an all time low for any president in the HISTORY of the united states.Not even that other bastard dick nixon had a lower approval rating.and this is all coming from the corporate controlled media they worship as the truth.they ALSO Bush was booed in washington at Obama's inaguration when they announced Bush at the podium.LOL.you can find those videos fo them dooing that of course at youtube.com


----------



## Andrew2382 (Feb 18, 2009)

Love how 9/11 was an inside job to get us to go to war in Iraq

Hundreds of people would have been involved and everyone has kept mum about it

Then we go to war you think they would have planted a nuke in Iraq somewhere to make us look better


We fail at conspiracy follow throughs


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Feb 18, 2009)

just wanted to type in something here for Big D because it was one of the things that you mentioned over at that other 9/11 thread about a month ago BEFORE I said I would stop responding to your posts and like I said back then,I said i would address all your points you brought up in the posts PRIOR to when i said that and this was one fo them.I had it all written down back then so no since and writing it all down to just go to waste.if you want any replys to this BIG D,you'll have to  ask EOTS to address it for you.but here is a post of yours you made back there BEFORE I said I would stop addressing you that I meant to respond to back then but didnt.you said back then.
1.there has been no record of this.
well of course theres been no public record of it,their not going to make a public record of it,thats why its a conspiracy.Their not going to like advertise it in the new york times.As I said before,they have made a living for years on keeping secrets from the population of the world.
2.they wouldnt put their reputation on the line and take such pride in their work and wouldnt let thsi happen.of course they dont want to jeopordize their reputation.thats why they keep quiet and dont seek the truth because the government will label them a nutcase and prevent them from GETTING future work.3.a good number of them are not even americans and therefore cant control what they say.well these people you refer to either work for the US government or work for international funded organizations.It doesnt matter what nationality you are,anybody from overseas can get government contracts.these contries get all their funding from the government of the USA.follow the money.Its funded by them.


----------



## eots (Feb 18, 2009)

Andrew2382 said:


> Love how 9/11 was an inside job to get us to go to war in Iraq
> 
> Hundreds of people would have been involved and everyone has kept mum about it
> 
> ...



wtf are you talking about ..there are many operations that remained unspoken of for decades before being leaked or declassified so what you say is not in keeping with historical reality and you are assuming that planting nuclear devices in Iraq would of had the same effect as 911..it would not have...again there are  other now declassified operations ..but if there where_ not yet _admitted it would be easy to say well why didn't they just...  blah blah.. blah...and call it debunked

*I GIVE YOU...OPERATION BIG CITY*





[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-DazmpdkF0[/ame]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9etwimDFpeg]YouTube - History Channel Admits Army Tested Bioweapons on Americans[/ame]


----------



## Andrew2382 (Feb 18, 2009)

can't view you tube at work


however

did we find any WMD's in Iraq?

If it truly were this huge conspiracy so we can go to war, wouldn't htye have gone all the way and just planted a few bombs somewhere in Iraq....They didn't and it proved our intel was wrong and made us look foolish.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Feb 18, 2009)

4.they could simply flee to another nation and speak the truth.well all the lions share of research in other countries is funded by the us government.people from other countries come over here all the time because the jobs are higher paying here.
5.some of these people arent even being paid for their work,if they were,they could just write a book about it.Well they dont want to jeopordize future work from the government.they dont want to be labeled a future crackpot.you got to go with the prominent opinion if your trying to win future work and get lucritive contracts.
you mentioned-then it should be in one of the many archives.take your pick.Wouldnt someone by now have scanned the article and posted it on the internet?

 I also tried searching the article for october 4th london times for Rudy Guliani and again came up short.LOl.Of course you came up short.I knew you would cause the article and the website has since been deleted from the files.Lol.thats how they operate.you also then asked-my question to you is how do you know this to be correct? do you get the london times? if so,then please scan and post it so we can see what you are talking about.No.I dont get the london times.I just do to 9/11 truth meetings and learn this.your not going to find EVERYTHING on the internet you know?LOL.Proof of that is you said you could find nowhere, anywhere  that Ray Mcgovern a former CIA analysist has said that he believes 9/11 was an inside job.Well if you bothered to go to 9/11 truth meetings around the country,you would know he DOES believe it cause he told a crowd at a 9/11 convention meeting he did that I attended.so again your not going to find EVERYTHING on the internet.LOL.you got to outside the computer sometimes to find things.

And FINALLY you mentioned back there-so all these people are in on it? yes.I assume you include those at purdue university as well,the media "ALL OF THEM." yes.all MAINSTREAM MEDIA.it only the alternative newspapers such as MEDIA BYPASS,AMERICAN FREE PRESS,ROCK CREEK FREE PRESS that report REAL news who arent in on it.the mainstream media as I have mentioned many times before,has CIA plants in them.I guarantee Bill O'Reily is one of them.you then said-of course everyone in government elected or not? the government of the UK also? yes to all your questions. anytime a good elected congress person like cythia mckinney speaks out,they lose their jobs which is exactly what happened to her.so I think that pretty much covers it all.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Feb 18, 2009)

eots said:


> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> > Love how 9/11 was an inside job to get us to go to war in Iraq
> ...



exactly,they kept the indonisian war the CIA was involved in a secret  from the american public a secret from them for over 40 years a secret.they been doing things like that for years.It wasn't  until recently in the 90's that we learned some of the secrets of world war "ONE"  that went on because they hadn't been declassified for years.as I have said hundreds of times before,the CIA has made a living for YEARS on keeping secrets from the population of the world.we dont know half of what goes on in washington and around the world half the time till years later cause of their secrets they keep. the majority of the public was in the dark that the CIA was behind the kennedy assassination for over 30 years,NOW over 80% no longer believe the fairy tale warren commission report.duh.


----------



## eots (Feb 18, 2009)

Andrew2382 said:


> can't view you tube at work
> 
> 
> however
> ...



well for one that clearly was not nresseary..or we would not be having this discussion..the logistics and risk involved in planting a nuclear weapon may also be greater than to allow and assist a existing terrorist organization to provide that pretext for war...to use dupes
and the psychological impact and the photo op of a spectacular event like 911 stirred the nation more on a blind emotion level than finding evidence of nuke programs ever could have


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Feb 18, 2009)

This is for Toro if he decides to pop in here and look at this.Toro you also mentioned back on that 9/11 thread  from a month ago that Eots had going that if it had been an explosion,seimographs would have picked up a spike and that according to seimographs at NYU there was no spike.thus,there was no conspiracy.well your dead wrong on that because thats obviously an altered chart of the seismographs that you posted back then because its a known FACT that Columbia university 21 miles out from the trade centers DID pick up seismographs that indicated explosives went off that day.Plus in the following days they even ANNOUNCED it on the mainstream news channels in the days afterwards,that they DID find seismographs that indicated explosives went off.

At FIRST,they denied it but when evidenced was produced that proved they were wrong,they admitted it right there on the air that seismographs proved explosives went off,they only announced it once and then you never heard it again.thats how the mainstream corporate controlled media operates,they will mention something like that like at 3am in the morning when everyone is asleep or during the day when everyone is at work and never repeat it again.But some people were there to hear them say that and caugh the mainstream media saying that right there on the news once.oh and you brought up something earlier on this thread which was actually a good point that I wanted to go into further detail about but cant today but promise I will do so in the next couple of days or so.


----------



## Andrew2382 (Feb 18, 2009)

eots said:


> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> > can't view you tube at work
> ...




thats so wrong on so many levels.

You're saying in the great conspiracy government we live in...we couldn't go into Iraq topple it...and in those weeks when we were searching for WMD's the military or CIA couldn't plant something and the next day it was found???

Finding WMD's in Iraq would have justified the war and Bush wouldn't have taken the flack.

So it would have served great purpose...yet they didn't becuase THERE IS NO FUCKING CONSPIRACY!


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Feb 18, 2009)

eots said:


> YouTube - 911 Who Knew?



again as this clip shows,it amazes me how alex jones was telling everybody on the radio there would be terrorists attacks against tnew york 2 months before 9/11 and if it happened it would be from the us government and people STILL defend the fairy tale 9/11 commission report.pitiful.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Feb 18, 2009)

eots said:


> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> > Love how 9/11 was an inside job to get us to go to war in Iraq
> ...



wow! great videos there.further proof how the government has a history of committing crimes agains their own people and we dont know about it for years.


----------



## Toro (Feb 18, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> This is for Toro if he decides to pop in here and look at this.Toro you also mentioned back on that 9/11 thread  from a month ago that Eots had going that if it had been an explosion,seimographs would have picked up a spike and that according to seimographs at NYU there was no spike.thus,there was no conspiracy.well your dead wrong on that because thats obviously an altered chart of the seismographs that you posted back then because its a known FACT that Columbia university 21 miles out from the trade centers DID pick up seismographs that indicated explosives went off that day.Plus in the following days they even ANNOUNCED it on the mainstream news channels in the days afterwards,that they DID find seismographs that indicated explosives went off.
> 
> At FIRST,they denied it but when evidenced was produced that proved they were wrong,they admitted it right there on the air that seismographs proved explosives went off,they only announced it once and then you never heard it again.thats how the mainstream corporate controlled media operates,they will mention something like that like at 3am in the morning when everyone is asleep or during the day when everyone is at work and never repeat it again.But some people were there to hear them say that and caugh the mainstream media saying that right there on the news once.oh and you brought up something earlier on this thread which was actually a good point that I wanted to go into further detail about but cant today but promise I will do so in the next couple of days or so.



I've seen those graphs on the conspiracist sites.  They purport to show that spikes did occur.  However, the spike was measured on a graph over days, which makes it look like there was a spike.  The confusion is in the time frame because if you look at the graph in seconds, not days, you can see there was a wave 15-20 seconds after the WTC collapsed, which is consistent with a falling structure.  On the graph where the time frame is in seconds, there is no spike.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Feb 18, 2009)

Toro said:


> [
> I've seen those graphs on the conspiracist sites.  They purport to show that spikes did occur.  However, the spike was measured on a graph over days, which makes it look like there was a spike.  The confusion is in the time frame because if you look at the graph in seconds, not days, you can see there was a wave 15-20 seconds after the WTC collapsed, which is consistent with a falling structure.  On the graph where the time frame is in seconds, there is no spike.



the seismograph  thing is really not all that important, just wanted to bring that up since it was a point I said I would address before I stopped addressing anything more back there.As I said before,if your interested in the truth, all you really need to do it look at those 47 videos from the canada wants the truth site I posted a couple pages back.
Anybody with a brain in their head after looking at those videos, can see the evidence is overwhelming explosives brought those towers down. 

You have these steel girders that weigh tons, ejecting and flying hundreds of feet through the air you can see photos of doing this,which were found blocks away slammed into other buildings,body parts found on roofs of buildings over the last several years,people reporting seeing coworkers incinerate right before their eyes behind them as they were running.these people have nothing to gain by lying.all of that IMPOSSIBLE as anyone with a brain knows,to have happened from a mere collapse of a building.Not to mention they were lied to by that bastard Gulianai about the air being safe to breath with almost all the firemen and policemen having died from respiratory problems they have experienced since then.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 18, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...


ROFLMAO

after you get totally PWN3D you say it wasnt that important
LOL
OMG you nutters are a laugh


----------



## eots (Feb 18, 2009)

2005 07 25

By Steve Davis | Rense.com

The seismographic analysis of WTC 911 is still undergoing research. From the initial reports that these seismographs were recording the buildings as they were hit by the planes and as they hit the ground, to more recent intense scrutiny of events, videos, eyewitnesses by experts and other researchers, a more complex sequence of events and causes for these collapses is developing. 


Steve Davis on Jeff Rense - WTC Seismic Analysis Towers Were Blown


----------



## eots (Feb 18, 2009)

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/seismic-wave.gif


Recent Event

Evidence for Explosives in the Twin Towers


The Ground Shake Preceding the Collapse of WTC 2


----------



## Big_D (Feb 18, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> 4.they could simply flee to another nation and speak the truth.well all the lions share of research in other countries is funded by the us government.people from other countries come over here all the time because the jobs are higher paying here.
> 5.some of these people arent even being paid for their work,if they were,they could just write a book about it.Well they dont want to jeopordize future work from the government.they dont want to be labeled a future crackpot.you got to go with the prominent opinion if your trying to win future work and get lucritive contracts.
> you mentioned-then it should be in one of the many archives.take your pick.Wouldnt someone by now have scanned the article and posted it on the internet?
> 
> ...



You bring up good points, but what you fail to see is that NOBODY is forcing them to write these papers on 9/11.  Obviously the majority of the majority of the engineering community haven't comprised articles on the subject.  Yet, nothing has happened to them.  If these people believed that explosions destroyed the buildings then they simply could keep their mouth shuts and keep their jobs.  Just like how you said your history teacher did after confronting him about the JFK conspiracy.  You make it seem that the people who have written these papers are being forced to do so or else they will be fired. Next, if they did believe this, all these professors could simply stick together and all come forward and say it was an inside job together.  The govt cannot get rid of everyone.  In that thread you are talking about I showed a poll where a good number of the people in India believe in the conspiracy.  Yet, as I also showed you, there was an engineering professor there that wrote a paper giving his opinion that it was not an inside job.  He could have certainly got away with stating it was an inside job and not been reprimanded as a lot of the people in his country agree with him.  I know you claim that he still might be getting funding from the US, but I never heard of an instance where our govt gave money to a foreign school.  Also, even if they did, his paper was in very much opposition to the NIST report.  They both agree that the towers were brought down by the planes, but they are in great disagreement elsewhere.  I have a hard time believing our govt coaxed him into writing this paper since it was so far apart from our own. 

I also don't know why it would be bad if they lose their jobs for speaking out against the govt.  Many people have done it and now making a living off of it.  You dont think that Alex Jones or David Ray Griffin is doing well for themselves?    I am not saying that they make these claims only because they wish to make money, but the incentive is certainly there.  

Also, you might be right about Ray McGovern believing that it was an inside job.  I made the points beforehand that I was unable to find it and all what I could find is that he said the govt let it happen.

Next, your response about the Guiliani article doesn't make sense.  If the govt is controlling the media then why would they have let that article out in the first place?

Lastly, your point about the massive people that you believe were in on the attacks.  If all these people were in on it, then how come nobody has came forward saying that our govt had them wire the WTC buildings up for demolition?  How come nobody has came forward saying that they helped the govt hit the pentagon with a missile?

I am not going to look up to ensure this is correct, but don't you all think that the WTC buildings were LOADED with security cameras and that this was viewed continually?  If the govt did blow up the towers then these cameras would have shown people setting explosives and therefore it would have been on tape.  Yet, there is no footage anywhere that this is true.

And what do ya say, lets bury the hatchet?


----------



## Big_D (Feb 18, 2009)

"Geophysicists have already contributed critical data to terrorist investigations. It was geologists who determined there were no secondary explosions at the base of the World Trade Center towers &#8212; but only the impact of the airplanes and subsequent fires &#8212; that contributed to the towers' collapse on Sept. 11".
Geologists Are Tuning In to Detect Terrorists


Seismic Record

Seismic Events at the WTC


----------



## eots (Feb 18, 2009)

Big_D said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > 4.they could simply flee to another nation and speak the truth.well all the lions share of research in other countries is funded by the us government.people from other countries come over here all the time because the jobs are higher paying here.
> ...



what do you know about security at wtc ? or where and what cameras where monitored continually ? or what wittinesses have reported...fire does not cause 3 buildings to fall in one day...buildings don't collapse at free fall speed ....jet fuel and office furniture do not burn hot enough to melt steel...so all your story's and assumptions mean not


----------



## Big_D (Feb 18, 2009)

eots said:


> what do you know about security at wtc ? or where and what cameras where monitored continually ?



I don't what about the security of the WTC buildings and where they placed the cameras.  However, I just find it odd that I am suppose to agree with your point of view when there are no videos of people planting demolition or wiring up the building.  According to Controlled Demolition, Inc. | Press Release, which is about a demolition of a MUCH smaller building than any of the WTC, "Over 36,000 ft. of detonating cord and 4,512 non-electric delay devices were installed in CDI's implosion initiation system. As the implosion required the detonation of a total of 2,728 lb. of explosives."  Yet, there is no record of this being present in the buildings.    



eots said:


> or what wittinesses have reported...



There have been no reports that someone claimed to have been working with the govt on the attacks.  If this was true, there would have been thousands of people that came forward.



eots said:


> fire does not cause 3 buildings to fall in one day..



Not according to the engineering experts that I have shown you in the past.   They claimed if fell from the heat.  Not the fires not the blow from the planes.



eots said:


> buildings don't collapse at free fall speed



They did not.  It was close, but it was not free fall speed.  Even a number of the conspiracy videos agree with this.  Look at the graph on page six of this report: http://www.911myths.com/WTCREPORT.pdf



eots said:


> ....jet fuel and office furniture do not burn hot enough to melt steel...



The steel didn't melt, it weakened.  



eots said:


> so all your story's and assumptions mean not



Unless you can give me actual proof how our govt could have planted explosives throughout buildings that had almost 30 million visitors through it each year, your assumptions mean nothing.


----------



## Godboy (Feb 18, 2009)

> buildings don't collapse at free fall speed



Oh yeah? What other speed could they fall at? Have you ever seen a building fall at any other speed than a free fall or near free fall? I havent.



> jet fuel and office furniture do not burn hot enough to melt steel



Youre still stuck on this one eh? You realize that metal doesnt have to melt in order to become weak, right? You should stop worrying about what temperature steel melts at, and find out what temperature steel weakens and bends at, because that would happen LONG before the steel melted.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 18, 2009)

Godboy said:


> > buildings don't collapse at free fall speed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i guess he missed that bridge that collapsed when a fuel truck burned up under it


----------



## Toro (Feb 19, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > > buildings don't collapse at free fall speed
> ...



That was a conspiracy.  It never happened.  Or at least not how you THINK it happened.


----------



## eots (Feb 19, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3151MqXu52s&feature=related]YouTube - Fire Weakens Steel but not Woman Waving in WTC North Tower[/ame]


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Feb 19, 2009)

I mentioned this before a month ago on EOTS 9/11 thread he had going on back then but will do so again.That photo the government always propagates as the truth when they say that photo they said the CIA found a couple months later after 9/11 where it shows a guy with a beard that looks and acts nothing like the real Osama Bin Laden is obviously not Bin Laden,the overwhelming proof that that photo IS not Bin Laden is not only is the guys beard a lot darker than the real Bin Ladens is as photos show of the real Bin Laden,but that photo shows that guy writing right handed and its a known fact that Bin Laden is LEFT HANDED,plus the guy is seen with a ring on his hand wearing a gold watch and everybody who knows anything about muslims knows that it is against their religion to wear jewelery.did Bin laden all of a sudden decide to be a rebel? I dont think so.also as I proved back there,Bin Laden was interviewed a couple weeks later in a newspaper overseas saying he DIDNT do it.a fact ignored by the mainstream media here in the states.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Feb 19, 2009)

Toro said:


> Youre still stuck on this one eh? You realize that metal doesnt have to melt in order to become weak, right? You should stop worrying about what temperature steel melts at, and find out what temperature steel weakens and bends at, because that would happen LONG before the steel melted.


i guess he missed that bridge that collapsed when a fuel truck burned up under it[/QUOTE]

That was a conspiracy.  It never happened.  Or at least not how you THINK it happened.[/QUOTE]

Godboy you have obviously never have  taken any science classes before because fires have to get to the point of at LEAST 2700 degrees Farenheit before they can even begin to weaken steel.Jet fuels only burn at 1800 degrees. FACT not theory.I know because my friend is a certified steel worker who was in construction and built buildings for a living till he retired recently.so until you and that other 9/11 apologists Diamond Dave take those science classes,do yourselfs a favor and keep quiet cause you guys are just talking out of the sides of your asses now.and stop being afraid of the truth and watch those cananda wants the truth videos you know you cant debunk which is why you wont watch them.


Toro,you brought up a good point on this thread not too long ago I wanted to address even further than I did before.You mentioned that if explosives were used,then it would not have gone unnoticed by people in the buildings cause they would have to wire the buildings.good point but as i said before,Marvin Bush was the head of the security towers for the towers in the prior months before 9/11.so was Bush jr's cousin-Wirt Walker.Because of that,they were able to keep the coworkers from seeing what they were really doing.They brought in dumpsters all the time with the explosives hidden in them obviously.we know they brought dumpsters in the towers prior to 9/11 cause many workers saw them and saw construction workers coming in and out of the towers.

As I said before,they weren't real construction workers though.They were CIA operatives disguised as construction workers.again BUSH SR was the former director of that evil organization the CIA back in the 70's.His son was running the country and his brother was in charge of the security for the towers.Havent you ever been to a construction site before and seen where they have fences and signs that say-hard hat area,keep out? and dont allow anybody other than the construction workers to enter in there?I have.I have worked before in temp jobs doing construction before.I saw it quite a few times while doing that kind of work. well thats what was going on then.They had service elevators that only the construction workers-CIA plants,could use to get to these floors and wire them.the workers said that they heard a lot of unusual constuction work going on and the elevaters THEY used,would not allow them to stop and enter on certain floors.they had no access to them.

They didnt use regular elevators so thats how the workers there didnt know what was going on.They  didnt know that Marvin Bush was a criminal or his cousin.They just thought they were real construction workers working there doing what they told them they were OFFICIALLY doing which was putting in new floor panels.they were told that and thats what they just assumed.They couldnt just go in there and look at what was going on,they call security on you for that if you do something like that.you know that.Obviously your in denial here and never watched any of those canada wants the truth videos that I postred countless numbers ot times here cause if you had,you would have seen that video where those workers there that survived,talked about seeing them bring in dumpsters and hearing loud construction work going on in the floors above them and hearing a dumpster being moved around on the floors above them.as far as them doing the unprecedented  thing of saying there was a power outage that weekend,well they obviously didnt get all that work done in just one weekend,it took them a few months obviously.

Now this IS a theory of why they had the power outage happen that weekend "which never had happened there before." according to some workers who had been there 20 plus years,my theory for why they had it was they just wanted to get the CIA plants to take a quick scan of the towers and make sure the explosives were all set where they had to be and everything was ready to go.unti a new investigation is opened up,thats all we can do is speculate about that.but like i said,anybody who has a brain who watches those canada wants the truth videos can see the evidence is overwhelming explosives brought the towers down.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Feb 19, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> the seismograph  thing is really not all that important, just wanted to bring that up since it was a point I said I would address before I stopped addressing anything more back there.As I said before,if your interested in the truth, all you really need to do it look at those 47 videos from the canada wants the truth site I posted a couple pages back.
> Anybody with a brain in their head after looking at those videos, can see the evidence is overwhelming explosives brought those towers down.
> 
> You have these steel girders that weigh tons, ejecting and flying hundreds of feet through the air you can see photos of doing this,which were found blocks away slammed into other buildings,body parts found on roofs of buildings over the last several years,people reporting seeing coworkers incinerate right before their eyes behind them as they were running.these people have nothing to gain by lying.all of that IMPOSSIBLE as anyone with a brain knows,to have happened from a mere collapse of a building.Not to mention they were lied to by that bastard Gulianai about the air being safe to breath with almost all the firemen and policemen having died from respiratory problems they have experienced since then.



okay now that I proved that explosives brought the towers down with this post and the last post and that it has now been established thats what happened-I have proven that countless of times here on this thread-"with the help of others as well of course." its now time for me to leave this thread since its been proven now that it was an inside job.that being said,before I go,the last thing I have to say on this thread is you have two choices here.you can either do A-Be a patriot and and watch  those 47 canada wants the truth videos and then email all your friends that link to that site and have them watch it-come on guys stop living in denial,be a patriot. or 

B-continue being afraid of the truth and dont watch those videos and continue living in a fairly tale land letting them the corporate controlled media brainwash you with their lies and propaganda that muslins and Bin Laden were behind the terrorists attacks.Its your choice.nuff said.Now its time for me to go on and look at some other threads here.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> Godboy you have obviously never have taken any science classes before because fires have to get to the point of at LEAST 2700 degrees Farenheit before they can even begin to weaken steel.Jet fuels only burn at 1800 degrees. FACT not theory.I know because my friend is a certified steel worker who was in construction and built buildings for a living till he retired recently.so until you and that other 9/11 apologists Diamond Dave take those science classes,do yourselfs a favor and keep quiet cause you guys are just talking out of the sides of your asses now.and stop being afraid of the truth and watch those cananda wants the truth videos you know you cant debunk which is why you wont watch them.
> 
> 
> Toro,you brought up a good point on this thread not too long ago I wanted to address even further than I did before.You mentioned that if explosives were used,then it would not have gone unnoticed by people in the buildings cause they would have to wire the buildings.good point but as i said before,Marvin Bush was the head of the security towers for the towers in the prior months before 9/11.so was Bush jr's cousin-Wirt Walker.Because of that,they were able to keep the coworkers from seeing what they were really doing.They brought in dumpsters all the time with the explosives hidden in them obviously.we know they brought dumpsters in the towers prior to 9/11 cause many workers saw them and saw construction workers coming in and out of the towers.
> ...


again you claim lies as fact
it doesnt have to reach 2700° to weaken steel, it only has to reach 540°C to weaken
and thats only 1004°F
so stop your lies


doh, i see you lied again in the same post
Bush's cousin was not head of security you moron


----------



## Big_D (Feb 19, 2009)

eots said:


> YouTube - Fire Weakens Steel but not Woman Waving in WTC North Tower



First of all that poor woman was standing at the VERY edge of the building were the temperature would be at it's lowest.  Secondly, if the footage of the woman in that video wasn't in a loop then you would see that it would not be too much longer till she would jump off the edge of the building.  Obviously, showing that the heat was so unbearable that she decided to end her life.  Thirdly, hair-straighteners go all the way up to 450 degrees.   Therefore, hair will obviously melt at a much higher temperature which would be within the range of the heat in that area-if it didn't melt at all.  We cannot get a clear shot of the woman and cannot see her hair.  Lastly, the post impact temperature was a lot lower than when the planes originally hit the towers.  We can only guess of the temperature of where she was at.  This video doesn't prove anything.


----------



## eots (Feb 19, 2009)

and either the the ludicrous nist or 911 commission report


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2009)

Big_D said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > YouTube - Fire Weakens Steel but not Woman Waving in WTC North Tower
> ...


none of Eots videos prove anything
thats why i dont bother to watch them anymore


----------



## eots (Feb 19, 2009)

no you don't watch them because your a moron..that likes to offer opinions without any information or facts


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2009)

eots said:


> no you don't watch them because your a moron..that likes to offer opinions without any information or facts


you have yet to post anything that proves your stupid theories
you post nothing but moronic alex jones bullshit videos
they never even come close to backing up the claim in the titles, and they are a waste of time


----------



## Big_D (Feb 19, 2009)

eots said:


> and either the the ludicrous nist or 911 commission report



The 911 commission and NIST at least back up their points.  


That video you showed left open MANY questions.  Namely, the temperature of where the woman was standing at.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2009)

Big_D said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > and either the the ludicrous nist or 911 commission report
> ...


the 9/11 commission didnt tell us anything we didnt already know, and some of the members of it should have been on the other side of the investigation.

to me
it was nothing more than a political CYA


that doesnt mean i think it was any kind of conspiracy to cause the destruction of WTC, but they didnt want to really expose the failures in the government that allowed things to happen that eventually lead to the attack


----------



## eots (Feb 19, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Big_D said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



that alone by definition is a conspiracy


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Big_D said:
> ...


yes, but a conspircy to cover up failures, not to cause it to happen
there is a huge difference


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Feb 19, 2009)

eots said:


> no you don't watch them because your a moron..that likes to offer opinions without any information or facts


exactly.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Feb 19, 2009)

Big_D said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > and either the the ludicrous nist or 911 commission report
> ...



okay  I know I said I would not return here again but I cant leave without saying that is such B.S.those fairy tales have been proven to be nothing but that.unlike NIST and that B.S 9/11 fairy tale report,the canada wants the truth videos are the ones that back up their points and have shreadded those two fairy tales to pieces.and by the way I just learned that senator mark dayton is also not the senator of minnesota anymore.furthur proof they get rid of people in congress who speak out against the governments lies and propaganda.


----------



## Big_D (Feb 19, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> Big_D said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



All what you have to do is watch just a few minutes into a number of videos on Canada wants the truth page to realize that they do not back up what they say.  You might not agree with the NIST report but anyone can see from reading it how they got to the conclusions they did.  After watching the entire loose change video anyone would see that they do not back up what they say.  They made countless statements that they simply did not back up.  There was only a small handful of times where they would say the phrase, "According to..."  For example, they say that the only remains from flight 93 were i believe identification from the flight attendants and a marriott club card.  The movie NEVER sites where they got this information from.  This is also incorrect as according to the following article, more was clearly located: Investigators locate 'black box' from Flight 93; widen search area in Somerset crash, More Flight 93 Photos

Also, Mark Dayton NEVER said that 9/11 was an inside job.  He has said that he wants a new investigation, but that's because he thinks the terrorists could have been stopped beforehand.  Furthermore, his career isn't over.  According to his website, markdayton.org, he is going to run for governor.


----------



## eots (Feb 19, 2009)

this is why investigation..under the terms of the petition is required...why are you so willing to have so many unanswered questions...you raise questions like why wires where not found in a massing pile of debris and wire..but dont question where are the black boxes and flight data recorders the surveillance tapes from the pentagon...but yet accept crap like they found the terrorist passports and bandannas in the rubble ... it is absurd


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2009)

eots said:


> this is why investigation..under the terms of the petition is required...why are you so willing to have so many unanswered questions...you raise questions like why wires where not found in a massing pile of debris and wire..but dont question where are the black boxes and flight data recorders the surveillance tapes from the pentagon...but yet accept crap like they found the terrorist passports and bandannas in the rubble ... it is absurd


no, its not
because things like that will happen
but, wires for demolition do not just disappear
there were NO survalance tapes from the pentagon that were at 30 FPS where you might actually be able to see what you want to see
they were not capable of it


----------



## Big_D (Feb 19, 2009)

eots said:


> this is why investigation..under the terms of the petition is required...why are you so willing to have so many unanswered questions...you raise questions like why wires where not found in a massing pile of debris and wire..but dont question where are the black boxes and flight data recorders the surveillance tapes from the pentagon...but yet accept crap like they found the terrorist passports and bandannas in the rubble ... it is absurd



Who said that I didn't question why it is not shown to the public?  I do _not_ know what happened to them.  But, in the past they have been destroyed on impact.  I just find it more odd (and this is one of many reasons why I cannot believe in the conspiracy) that people will not accept the fact that there was wires or demolition equipment found at the site.  This is especially true because 36,000 ft. of detonating cord and a total of 2,728 lb. of explosives were used to implode a building less than a third the size of only one WTC building.  (Controlled Demolition, Inc. | Press Release)   
Yet, no video or photographic evidence took place that this was at ground zero.   This is especially true taking into account that there was video recording this 24 hours a day.  Does this not seem odd to you?

Lastly, more than just passports and bandannas were in the rubble.  My last post showed that.


----------



## eots (Feb 19, 2009)

and how many feet of INTERNET wires... telephone wires.. electrical wires..if it was not specifically searched for it would not be found it is a stupid argument and the cases of black boxes not being found are extremal rare and there are first responders that state they did find the black box's and they where removed


----------



## manu1959 (Feb 19, 2009)

eots said:


> and how many feet of INTERNET wires... telephone wires.. electrical wires..if it was not specifically searched for it would not be found it is a stupid argument and the cases of black boxes not being found are extremal rare and there are first responders that state they did find the black box's and they where removed



how long did it take to wire and pre demo the four buildings that were brought down and why did no one notice......

where did all the people on the four planes go.....


----------



## eots (Feb 19, 2009)

and enough already with your controlled demolition site ...the company that did the clean up i would like to point out...and the company that removed the stee l( and any other evidence ) all in convenient  30ft lengths ..like in a controlled demolition


----------



## manu1959 (Feb 19, 2009)

eots said:


> and enough already with your controlled demolition site ...the company that did the clean up i would like to point out...and the company that removed the stee l( and any other evidence ) all in convenient  30ft lengths ..like in a controlled demolition



so it wasn't a controled demoltion......


----------



## eots (Feb 19, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > and how many feet of internet wires... Telephone wires.. Electrical wires..if it was not specifically searched for it would not be found it is a stupid argument and the cases of black boxes not being found are extremal rare and there are first responders that state they did find the black box's and they where removed
> ...



 two of the  planes hit the towers..one was shot down the others fate is yet unknown

prople did notice their testimony was never investigated


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 20, 2009)

eots said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


really??
name those people that have come forward claiming they saw people pre-wiring for demolition


----------



## manu1959 (Feb 20, 2009)

eots said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



so one plane is mia......one plane was shot down.......

and two other airplanes hit the twin towers......but that isn't what caused the towers to fall....it was a controlled demolition.....do i have it right so far.....


----------



## eots (Feb 20, 2009)

That is correct and the company used as the debunking mouth piece called _controled demolition _was who did the evidence removal/ clean up of the wtc site ..


----------



## manu1959 (Feb 20, 2009)

eots said:


> That is correct and the company used as the debunking mouth piece called _controled demolition _was who did the evidence removal/ clean up of the wtc site ..



so they spent weeks wiring four buildings .....hijacked four planes and made one disapear shot one down one.... hit buildings with the other two....and faked an attack on the pentagon.....

all so they can create a new world order.....

is that the short to the point version......


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 20, 2009)

eots said:


> That is correct and the company used as the debunking mouth piece called _controled demolition _was who did the evidence removal/ clean up of the wtc site ..


you sure you dont mean the OKC building?


----------



## eots (Feb 20, 2009)

no but they where also involved in that inside job


----------



## eots (Feb 20, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > That is correct and the company used as the debunking mouth piece called _controled demolition _was who did the evidence removal/ clean up of the wtc site ..
> ...



basicaly..


----------



## manu1959 (Feb 20, 2009)

eots said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



so if they are this powerfull why go to this much trouble .... why not just take over.....


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 20, 2009)

eots said:


> no but they where also involved in that inside job


oh please

please show proof they were a part of the 9/11 cleanup
and no, no alex jones site will do


----------



## eots (Feb 20, 2009)

NWO Quotes


----------



## manu1959 (Feb 20, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > no but they where also involved in that inside job
> ...



Debunking 911 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition Homepage


----------



## eots (Feb 20, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqg3HwLFI9w]YouTube - FBI BOMBED OKLAHOMA CITY !!!! I[/ame]


----------



## manu1959 (Feb 20, 2009)

eots said:


> YouTube - FBI BOMBED OKLAHOMA CITY !!!! I



cool.....why did the fbi blow up their own building......


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 20, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > YouTube - FBI BOMBED OKLAHOMA CITY !!!! I
> ...


clearly they needed an excuse to execute Tim McVegh


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 20, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


not sure what that is supposed to prove


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 20, 2009)

eots said:


> NWO Quotes


that didnt prove anything


----------



## eots (Feb 20, 2009)

it proves the existence of a new world order concept and the views and agenda of the power elite
but then you like to follow their lead..you want big brother to take care of you


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 20, 2009)

eots said:


> it proves the existence of a new world order concept and the views and agenda of the power elite
> but then you like to follow their lead..you want big brother to take care of you


i guess you dont actually read anything outside this one CT forum
if you think that, you are not only a moron, you are an idiot moron


----------



## eots (Feb 20, 2009)

New York -- *Phoenix, Md.-based Controlled Demolition Inc*. (CDI) has developed a plan that may be used to clean up the World Trade Center (WTC) disaster. The plan, delivered on Sept. 22 to the city's Department of Design and Construction, outlines a site-wide master plan.

Among other things, CDI recommends that the steel beam structures be removed first and that attention must be paid to restoring transit service in the area. With regard to the steel structures, CDI recommends that workers use liquid oxygen-propane torches to prevent the steel from welding back, which could slow operations.

CDI also asserts that maintaining the slurry wall beneath the foundation is important to keep it from collapsing and suggests implementing a slurry wall tieback system.

However, the plan will not be considered until city officials declare an end to search-and-rescue efforts in the area.

Construction Company Proposes Plan for WTC Site


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 20, 2009)

eots said:


> New York -- *Phoenix, Md.-based Controlled Demolition Inc*. (CDI) has developed a plan that may be used to clean up the World Trade Center (WTC) disaster. The plan, delivered on Sept. 22 to the city's Department of Design and Construction, outlines a site-wide master plan.
> 
> Among other things, CDI recommends that the steel beam structures be removed first and that attention must be paid to restoring transit service in the area. With regard to the steel structures, CDI recommends that workers use liquid oxygen-propane torches to prevent the steel from welding back, which could slow operations.
> 
> ...


that proves they developed a plan, it doesnt say it was implimented nor does it say they actually did the work


----------



## eots (Feb 20, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > New York -- *Phoenix, Md.-based Controlled Demolition Inc*. (CDI) has developed a plan that may be used to clean up the World Trade Center (WTC) disaster. The plan, delivered on Sept. 22 to the city's Department of Design and Construction, outlines a site-wide master plan.
> ...



oh fuck ...google it mofo.. it common knowledge  it was just a very earlier artical..it is easy enough to find..controled demolition is the is like blackwater a shadow government front.. just like popular mechanics,,the other voice of the debunker


----------



## eots (Feb 20, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > YouTube - FBI BOMBED OKLAHOMA CITY !!!! I
> ...



it was actually a AFT building but they made sure their agents where not there

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck13yfbOXdQ]YouTube - ATF Given Prior Warning of Oklahoma City Bombing[/ame]


----------



## eots (Feb 20, 2009)

The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it *exists.
more J. Edgar Hoover quotes*

The high office of the President has been used to foment a plot to destroy the American's freedom and before I leave office, I must inform the citizen of this plight.
*more John F. Kennedy quotes*


Conspiracy Quotes/Quotations


----------



## Big_D (Feb 20, 2009)

eots said:


> and how many feet of INTERNET wires... telephone wires.. electrical wires..if it was not specifically searched for it would not be found it is a stupid argument and the cases of black boxes not being found are extremal rare and there are first responders that state they did find the black box's and they where removed



Are you saying the government actually left the evidence of explosives there and just hoped it would not be noticed?  The demolition equipment and cords would have been on tape by now.  People were filming the debris 24 hours a day and 7 days a week.  It is over seven years later and nobody has shown evidence that this was somewhere in the rubble.

Next, voice recorders have been found they were even played in the Zacarias Moussaoui trail.  Here is a photo of it:Image:Flight 77 CVR.jpg - 911myths

For the ones that were not found, it would not be a surprise as this not the first time in history this has happened.  Black boxes were not found: News Story, NTSB - Press Release.



eots said:


> and enough already with your controlled demolition site ...the company that did the clean up i would like to point out...and the company that removed the stee l( and any other evidence ) all in convenient 30ft lengths ..like in a controlled demolition





eots said:


> That is correct and the company used as the debunking mouth piece called controled demolition was who did the evidence removal/ clean up of the wtc site ..



Again, we would have it on film and have photos taken of it in the debris.  We have hours of footage of the debris, nobody has proven there was demolition equipment in it.  With all the attempts of people to prove it was an inside job, nobody has been able to search through this footage and locate it.  Are you saying that this company is also in on the attacks?  Why has nobody from their company came forward to say that govt took part in it?


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## eots (Feb 20, 2009)

why docent the CIA  admit they control the drug trade..what doesn't blackwater speak of their covert crimes ?


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## Big_D (Feb 20, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > That is correct and the company used as the debunking mouth piece called _controled demolition _was who did the evidence removal/ clean up of the wtc site ..
> ...



It would have taken more than just weeks if the buildings were abandoned.  It took them almost a month to just wire a building a fraction of the size of one WTC building.  It would have taken years to plant and hide this stuff.  Yet, nobody has came forward with proof showing that the places were planted with this stuff.  Plus, the explosions that would have had to be used only had a lifespan of two years.  So, in order for the buildings to been setup for a demolition, the workers had an unprecedented task.


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## eots (Feb 20, 2009)

why where two explosions and multiple reports of secondary devices reported at OK city ..where was the AFT where is john doe ?


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## eots (Feb 20, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFcDlrWA56c]YouTube - 1993 World Trade Center Bombing - An Inside Job?[/ame]


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## Big_D (Feb 20, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeqqBHxvSlo]YouTube - Alex Jones has a Muslim Terrorist Tell Jones He's Wrong[/ame]


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## eots (Feb 20, 2009)

omg...its almost surreal ...the Orwellian propaganda ..the stagedness of the whole event it would be a comedy piece if not for the fact that pathetic weak minded individuals could not see through the deception...ok I'm feeling Little sick ,,the Waves of nausea ...gotta go now...


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## eots (Feb 20, 2009)

and thats not even Alex Jones he would never lend himself to such a shame...god save us


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## Mr. Jones (Feb 20, 2009)

Big_D said:


> ...
> Again, we would have it on film and have photos taken of it in the debris.  We have hours of footage of the debris, nobody has proven there was demolition equipment in it.  With all the attempts of people to prove it was an inside job, nobody has been able to search through this footage and locate it.  Are you saying that this company is also in on the attacks?  Why has nobody from their company came forward to say that govt took part in it?


 I responded to this theory of yours in another thread. There probably wouldn't be any evidence of all these wires, or cables that you speak of because they are themselves an explosive component and would be destroyed.
*Detonating cord (also called detonation cord, detacord, det. cord, detcord, primer cord or sun cord) is a thin, flexible tube with an explosive core. It is a high-speed fuse which explodes, rather than burns, and is suitable for detonating high explosives, usually pentaerythritol tetranitrate (PETN, Pentrite). The velocity of detonation is sufficient to use it for synchronising multiple charges to detonate almost simultaneously even if the charges are placed at different distances from the point of initiation. It is used to reliably and inexpensively chain together multiple explosive charges. Typical uses include mining, drilling, and demolitions.

"Cordtex" and "Primacord" are two of many tradenames which have slipped into being used as a generic.*
*....While it looks like nylon cord, the core is a compressed powdered explosive, usually PETN (Pentrite), and it is initiated by the use of a blasting cap. Detonation cord will initiate most commercial high explosives (dynamite, gelignite, sensitised gels, etc.) but will not initiate less sensitive blasting agents like ANFO on its own. 25 to 50 grain/foot (5.3 to 10.6 g/m) det cord has approximately the same initiation power as a blasting cap, but along its entire length.*
Detonating cord: Definition from Answers.com


*
......As a timing mechanism, detonation cord detonates at a very reliable rate (about 7000 - 8000 m/s), enabling engineers to control the pattern in which charges are detonated. This is particularly useful for demolitions, when structural elements need to be destroyed in a specific order to control the collapse of a building. Wiki
Cordtex and Primacord are the most commonly used detonation cords. Primaline, a heavier yield Primacord, has a hard plastic casing and looks very similar to a heavy gage commercial wiring.
(I remember that one of the witnesses who observed the workers who came in during the weekend of the power-down at the World Trade Centers say that he saw many of them moving large spools of what looked like brightly colored cable. Primaline, like most commercial explosives, uses bright colors to differentiate between the cords grain loads.)*

http://files.meetup.com/1148/Open Letter to Steve Jones.txt


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## Paulie (Feb 20, 2009)

People challenge the theory of controlled demolition based on how long it would take to plan for it an wire the buildings.

What if there was a fail-safe self-destruct mechanism that was designed into the buildings?  Or what if after the 93 bombing, worries about that big of a building collapsing without some kind of control caused this kind of plan to be implemented?  It would have been easier to implement such a thing in the wake of the 93 carnage.

It does make sense if you consider the insurance implications.  Buildings that big probably SHOULD have some kind of mechanism like that built into them just in case something like a plane crash, earthquake, bombing, etc, were to create the possibility of an uncontrolled collapse.  Especially an earthquake.  If 110 story buildings were to collapse uncontrollably, the amount of collateral damage could be unimaginable.  I'd have to say on 9/11, lower Manhattan got EXTREMELY LUCKY that they collapsed in the manner they did.  There could have been SO MUCH more collateral damage than what there was.

This is just one theory I've read about that actually makes a little sense.


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 20, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > and how many feet of INTERNET wires... telephone wires.. electrical wires..if it was not specifically searched for it would not be found it is a stupid argument and the cases of black boxes not being found are extremal rare and there are first responders that state they did find the black box's and they where removed
> ...



okay since someone NEW has come on this thread I figured I would come back and post again is the only reason I am coming back again. thats one of the questions that they need to answer for and the only way we will have a chance to get an answer about it is get a NEW investigation into it by an independent group of people and not a government investigation.as for the first part,here is the answer to that in my next post.


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 20, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> Toro,you brought up a good point on this thread not too long ago I wanted to address even further than I did before.You mentioned that if explosives were used,then it would not have gone unnoticed by people in the buildings cause they would have to wire the buildings.good point but as i said before,Marvin Bush was the head of the security towers for the towers in the prior months before 9/11.so was Bush jr's cousin-Wirt Walker.Because of that,they were able to keep the coworkers from seeing what they were really doing.They brought in dumpsters all the time with the explosives hidden in them obviously.we know they brought dumpsters in the towers prior to 9/11 cause many workers saw them and saw construction workers coming in and out of the towers.
> 
> As I said before,they weren't real construction workers though.They were CIA operatives disguised as construction workers.again BUSH SR was the former director of that evil organization the CIA back in the 70's.His son was running the country and his brother was in charge of the security for the towers.Havent you ever been to a construction site before and seen where they have fences and signs that say-hard hat area,keep out? and dont allow anybody other than the construction workers to enter in there?I have.I have worked before in temp jobs doing construction before.I saw it quite a few times while doing that kind of work. well thats what was going on then.They had service elevators that only the construction workers-CIA plants,could use to get to these floors and wire them.the workers said that they heard a lot of unusual constuction work going on and the elevaters THEY used,would not allow them to stop and enter on certain floors.they had no access to them.
> 
> ...



THATS how they did it without people noticing  to answer your question.Now that THAT has been cleared up,that supposedly debunking  9/11 conspiracy link you posted and others like that, that the 9/11 apologists here blindly worship as the truth cause their in denial, are disinformation sites with disinformation,lies and propaganda.

if you want to find out the REAL truth,watch these 47 videos here.they debunk those two fairy tales the 9/11 coverup commission report and the NIST report.everytime I ask people to watch them and debunk them,they never do watch them.This is how i can tell if someone is REALLY interested in the truth or is in complete denial and wants to keep their head buried in the sand by listening to the lies and propaganda of the corporate controlled media and the government.anybody who watches these 47 videos and STILL  defends the official version of the 9/11 commission report,is either an idiot moron like divecon and godboy, or they didnt watch them.I have posted it countless numbers of times here but the 9/11 apologists never watch them because they know its the truth and the truth scares them so they wont attempt to debunk them.here they are if you want to learn the TRUTH.
Canada 9/11 Truth - Videos


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## DiveCon (Feb 20, 2009)

why would anyone want to watch a list of videos that starts with loose change?
those assholes dont want the truth, they are liars like YOU are


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## Big_D (Feb 20, 2009)

Mr. Jones said:


> Big_D said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Yes, I read that before. It is not saying what happens to everything that would be used and why it would not be in the debris.  Plus, your claim that the wires wouldn't be found at ground zero is incorrect.  As I said in the previous thread, the demolition expert credited with world record of controlled demolition said that there would be miles upon miles of this.  He also said that walls would have been torn down and cable hanging everywhere.  He said it just isn't possible to have planted there without anyone noticing.


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## Big_D (Feb 20, 2009)

Paulie said:


> People challenge the theory of controlled demolition based on how long it would take to plan for it an wire the buildings.
> 
> What if there was a fail-safe self-destruct mechanism that was designed into the buildings?  Or what if after the 93 bombing, worries about that big of a building collapsing without some kind of control caused this kind of plan to be implemented?  It would have been easier to implement such a thing in the wake of the 93 carnage.
> 
> ...



As I said before, there couldnt be a fail safe destruction mechanism designed into the building as the explosives used, according to the same demolition expert I spoke of in the previous post, said it had a lifespan of only two years.


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## Big_D (Feb 20, 2009)

eots said:


> omg...its almost surreal ...the Orwellian propaganda ..the stagedness of the whole event it would be a comedy piece if not for the fact that pathetic weak minded individuals could not see through the deception...ok I'm feeling Little sick ,,the Waves of nausea ...gotta go now...



Come on!  It wasn't propaganda, it was just simply a joke.  Relax, it was funny.  By the way, I hope you made it to the toilet.


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## eots (Feb 20, 2009)

Big_D said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> > People challenge the theory of controlled demolition based on how long it would take to plan for it an wire the buildings.
> ...



and would that expert be from the evidence removal company..controled demolition inc


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## DiveCon (Feb 20, 2009)

eots said:


> Big_D said:
> 
> 
> > Paulie said:
> ...


so the conspiracy widens

do you realize you keep adding more and more people to this conspiracy?


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## Big_D (Feb 20, 2009)

eots said:


> Big_D said:
> 
> 
> > Paulie said:
> ...


FEMA removed the debris: US: The mystery of 9/11 | World Association of International Studies, Stanford University, CA -- PAX et LUX

Next it took over eight months to remove everything.  
FOXNews.com - Silent Tribute Marks End of Ground Zero Search - U.S. &amp; World
All the while camera were taking footage and yet no demolition made it to film.

Also, as I have shown you in the past, he is not the only demolition expert that agrees with me.


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## Big_D (Feb 20, 2009)

Can you all give me an estimate of how many people you believe were in on it?  

Every hear the phrase, "The only way a secret can be kept among three people is if two of them are dead?"


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## Big_D (Feb 20, 2009)

Instead of taking the VERY risky method of rigging the buildings up for demolition, why didn't the govt just attack us with missiles and say they were from other nations.  Since you all believe the press will do what the govt says, couldnt they get away with this?


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## eots (Feb 20, 2009)

Big_D said:


> Can you all give me an estimate of how many people you believe were in on it?
> 
> Every hear the phrase, "The only way a secret can be kept among three people is if two of them are dead?"



 no I  cant ..except to say far less than you seem to think it is only necessary to have people in key positions and keep the operation compartmentalized and your old wives tale about secrets is just that..and not supported by historical precedent
and we could play the _why didn't they just game_ forever..why didn't the terrorist hijack planes closer to their targets ..why didn't they crash them into a football stadium full of people..for the plan to work they would have to know NORAD would fail..that prior warnings would be ignored ..why didn't the big terrorist network that we need to us the full force of our resources and military against not find people with previous flight experience instead of people that struggled to fly small aircraft...are you saying the terrorist network had no trained pilots...either its an inside job or ALLAH ...did miracles that day and opened door and caused 3 buildings to fall with 2 planes..take your pick


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## Big_D (Feb 20, 2009)

You do believe that the at least part of the media was in on it, don't you?  That alone would lead to unprecedented numbers.  So would the people to plant the demolition and carry out the other orders.  

The people who are in it would lead to a number of questions alone.
You seemed to have imply that the company controlled demolition was in on it.  If you do believe this, then why wouldn't the heads of the company come forward to say they were part of it?


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 21, 2009)

EOTS your STILL wasting your breath on Big D? I dont know why you even bother with him.Its obvious he's a disinfo agent the way he blatently ignores overwhelming facts and evidence anybody provides that proves its an inside job.I mean come on,as I said before,anybody who has a brain in their head who has watched those 47 canada wants the truth videos "that I have posted countless numbers of times here only to get ignored everytime by the 9/11 apologists" all anybody who is interested in the truth needs to see that the evidence is overwhemling that explosives brought down those towers and that it was an inside job is watch those videos.Havent you noticed how everytime I ask someone to address those videos they never respond to them? thats cause they know they cant counter them so they dont watch them.


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## Big_D (Feb 22, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> EOTS your STILL wasting your breath on Big D? I dont know why you even bother with him.Its obvious he's a disinfo agent the way he blatently ignores overwhelming facts and evidence anybody provides that proves its an inside job.I mean come on,as I said before,anybody who has a brain in their head who has watched those 47 canada wants the truth videos "that I have posted countless numbers of times here only to get ignored everytime by the 9/11 apologists" all anybody who is interested in the truth needs to see that the evidence is overwhemling that explosives brought down those towers and that it was an inside job is watch those videos.Havent you noticed how everytime I ask someone to address those videos they never respond to them? thats cause they know they cant counter them so they dont watch them.



It is interesting that someone who said that they were through with me, keeps talking about me and responding to my posts.  As I said in post number 294 of this very thread about viewing those videos:


Big D said:


> I *DID *indeed watch a number of them. In fact, I have spent HOURS viewing the information that you and others have posted. As I keep saying, this is not fact but speculation. Throughout the entire loose change videos claims were made that were not backed up. I bet they only said the words "according to" less than ten times throughout the two hour film. They also leave out numerous things issues and are more of the skeptics stronger points.



I also referenced the videos just a few posts ago and DiveCon also stated that he watched it as well.


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## DiveCon (Feb 22, 2009)

Big_D said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > EOTS your STILL wasting your breath on Big D? I dont know why you even bother with him.Its obvious he's a disinfo agent the way he blatently ignores overwhelming facts and evidence anybody provides that proves its an inside job.I mean come on,as I said before,anybody who has a brain in their head who has watched those 47 canada wants the truth videos "that I have posted countless numbers of times here only to get ignored everytime by the 9/11 apologists" all anybody who is interested in the truth needs to see that the evidence is overwhemling that explosives brought down those towers and that it was an inside job is watch those videos.Havent you noticed how everytime I ask someone to address those videos they never respond to them? thats cause they know they cant counter them so they dont watch them.
> ...


yes, i watched loose change
there never has been a bigger load of crap put on video
i'd recomend screw loose change as an alternative


Screw Loose Change video


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## eots (Feb 23, 2009)

Big_D said:


> You do believe that the at least part of the media was in on it, don't you?  That alone would lead to unprecedented numbers.  So would the people to plant the demolition and carry out the other orders.
> 
> The people who are in it would lead to a number of questions alone.
> You seemed to have imply that the company controlled demolition was in on it.  If you do believe this, then why wouldn't the heads of the company come forward to say they were part of it?



why do you pretend that there have not be entire agency's  and programs involving large groups of people that have been kept secret for decades..because there most certainly have been


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## Big_D (Feb 23, 2009)

eots said:


> Big_D said:
> 
> 
> > You do believe that the at least part of the media was in on it, don't you?  That alone would lead to unprecedented numbers.  So would the people to plant the demolition and carry out the other orders.
> ...



When did I say this?  I can believe that there have been programs involving a good number of people, but how much do you mean when you say a large group of people?  It certainly would not be the size to pull of the 9/11 attacks.  The Manhattan project would be a good example of project that was kept silent, but as you know the vice president at the time didn't even know of it!  Yet, some of the conspiracy believes think that a good portion of the media is in on it.  In the words of Ben Franklin, 

"If you want to keep your secret from an enemy, tell it not to a friend."


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## eots (Feb 23, 2009)

shit flows down hill..it only takes a few key people to decide what is reported and what is not and a few well place talking heads that dont really give a dam..its not as complicated as you make it

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdgnJY2uMS0]YouTube - OutFOXed : Rupert Murdoch's War on Journalism (1-9)[/ame]


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## eots (Feb 23, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBG3g3sW71A]YouTube - Popular Mechanics Gatekeeper:Exposed!! (Part I)[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rQ2D1ua_q4&feature=related]YouTube - Popular Mechanics Gatekeeper:Exposed!! (Part II)[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4i-8UzTtGo&feature=related]YouTube - Popular Mechanics Gatekeeper:Exposed!! (Part III)[/ame]


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 24, 2009)

eots said:


> why do you pretend that there have not be entire agency's  and programs involving large groups of people that have been kept secret for decades..because there most certainly have been



thats just one more example of why he's not worth bothering with.Thats been addressed to him many times before,was addressed at least a couple of times on THIS thread, and he just repeats it over and over again.


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## Big_D (Feb 24, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > why do you pretend that there have not be entire agency's  and programs involving large groups of people that have been kept secret for decades..because there most certainly have been
> ...



You want nothing to do with me, yet you keep responding to and making reference to my posts!  If you do not want anything to do with me, then stop doing this.  Also, if you read what I said, you'd know that I agree there have been programs kept secret.  However, nothing this large.  I keep bringing it up because I am not getting any resolution on it. 

It is interesting how you keep criticizing me when you have been on the record of changing your story and tout videos like loose change when they have lied numerous times.  Like when they said that the WTC buildings were the first to collapse from fire-total lie.


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## Big_D (Feb 24, 2009)

eots said:


> it only takes a few key people to decide what is reported and what is not and a few well place talking heads that dont really give a ..its not as complicated as you make it



This isn't the complicated part.  The part I have trouble believing is that all the people required to pull this off have kept quiet all this time.


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## DiveCon (Feb 24, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > why do you pretend that there have not be entire agency's  and programs involving large groups of people that have been kept secret for decades..because there most certainly have been
> ...


OMG what irony


all you morons do is C&P the same crap over and over again


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## DiveCon (Feb 24, 2009)

Big_D said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > it only takes a few key people to decide what is reported and what is not and a few well place talking heads that dont really give a ..its not as complicated as you make it
> ...


if this were the case, then no one would have known about Monica and the blue dress


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## JBeukema (May 31, 2011)

RetiredGySgt said:


> This belongs in the Conspiracy forum. With all the other whacko shit about 911.


Wacko shit like someone in a cave defeating NORAD and having access to White House codes?


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## JBeukema (May 31, 2011)

eots said:


> MR X....what difference does it make if you don't view the evidence..
> elements within the White house Pakistani and Israeli intelligence planed ,implemented
> the events of 911


Fast forward to 2011... where did they say Osama was this whole time?


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## Patriot911 (May 31, 2011)

JBeukema said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > This belongs in the Conspiracy forum. With all the other whacko shit about 911.
> ...



Yeah, you have to be batshit crazy to think anyone but a truthtard is pretending anyone had access to the Whitehouse codes.    That's a new one I haven't heard from the batshit crazy crowd.  So what did they do with these supposed codes?  Launch the nukes?


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## JBeukema (May 31, 2011)

Patriot911 said:


> JBeukema said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



 Terrorists had top-secret presidential codes



> The terrorists' message threatening Air Force One was transmitted in  that day's top-secret White House code words. As the clock ticked away,  the Secret Service reached a frightening conclusion: The terrorists had  obtained the White House code and a whole set of top-secret signals.
> This made it possible for a hostile force to pinpoint the exact  position of Air Force One, its destination and its classified  procedures. In fact, the hijackers were picking up and deciphering the  presidential plane's incoming and outgoing transmissions.
> The discovery shocked everyone in the president's emergency  operations center  Cheney, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice  and Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta. Their first question was:  How did the terrorists access top-secret White House codes and  procedures? Is there a mole, or more than one enemy spy in the White  House, the Secret Service, the FBI, the CIA or the Federal Aviation  Administration?
> 
> ...


Somalia trail may provide clues to leaks of top-secret U.S. codes

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-Zn8UsdLdc]YouTube - &#x202a;OTHER TARGETS On 9/11; MILITARY CODES COMPROMISED&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]


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## GHook93 (May 31, 2011)

Sunni Man said:


> 9/11 was a Mossad plan to draw the U.S. into a war against Israel's arab enemys.
> 
> It had the backing of the Zionists who are in control of the American government.



Yes because Afghanistan, heck even Al Qaeda, is Israel's arch enemy. If Mossad was behind it, why didn't they pin it on Hezbollah, Hamas or Iran? That would have been the smartest move if they were behind.

But *Edited* you can pettle your trash behind the safety of your computer screen!


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## Patriot911 (May 31, 2011)

JBeukema said:


> Patriot911 said:
> 
> 
> > JBeukema said:
> ...



  A story from WND from right after 9/11 that died on the vine is your source?    That's a good one!  Of course, none of the claims actually pan out.

You truthtards are so damn gullible!  Anything you read that says what you want to hear and by GOD it MUST be the truth regardless of anything else that comes up.    Thanks for the laughs!


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## Mr. Jones (Jun 1, 2011)

Big_D said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > it only takes a few key people to decide what is reported and what is not and a few well place talking heads that dont really give a ..its not as complicated as you make it
> ...



Conspiracies and collusion to commit them happen all the time, even big ones. Over 130,000 people worked on the Manhattan Project from 3 countries, cost 2 billion. 
The planned coup in the 1930s. They wanted to enlist 500,000 war veterans. They were among the richest families in the country with Prescott Bush involved also. 
They said the American people would except their new government because they controlled the newspapers.

7 out of the 8 giant money center banks went bankrupt in the 1980's. That was covered up for 20 years. 

Business Plot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Daily Kos: Bush Advocated Violent Overthrow of US Government - ?

Manhattan Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Washington's Blog

And don't forget that Operation Northwoods went undisclosed for 40 years.
U.S. Military Wanted to Provoke War With Cuba - ABC News

So it is possible for large conspiracies to be kept secret for long periods of time. Although it may take great discipline on the conspirators part, the threat of getting themselves or their families killed is good reason for keeping quiet.
Thinking it can't happen is naive and exactly what they would want a gullible congress and public to think.


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## LA RAM FAN (Sep 9, 2011)

RetiredGySgt said:


> This belongs in the Conspiracy forum. With all the other whacko shit about 911.



great rebuttal there.

thats the rebuttals you  trolls always come up with.you can only sling shit in defeat like the monkey trolls  you are.


----------

