# Donald Trump Jr launches 2nd amendment task force to fight the left



## basquebromance (Apr 27, 2022)

the 2nd Amendment is non-negotiable. 
Don’t let them Europe your America









						Donald Trump Jr. Launches Gun Rights Group to Fight the Left
					

Donald Trump Jr. launched the Second Amendment Task Force on Wednesday to fight the left's efforts to cripple gun rights in the U.S.




					www.breitbart.com


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## Polishprince (Apr 27, 2022)

Don Jr. is a great guy, very much unlike Sleepy Joe's heir.

I'd love to see the two face off in the 2028 election.   If the D's have the courage of their convictions and nominate Hunter Biden, the Republicans should respond by nominate the younger Trumpster.


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## Biff_Poindexter (Apr 27, 2022)

So no more cancer charities? 

I wonder why


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## Polishprince (Apr 27, 2022)

Biff_Poindexter said:


> So no more cancer charities?
> 
> I wonder why




The 2nd Amendment is a worthy charity as well.

Besides, fighting cancer would be stepping on Brandon's toes.   The so-called President is supposed to be committed to a moon shot to end cancer.   Trump will stay out of his way, and fight the plague of gunophobia.


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## Hugo Furst (Apr 27, 2022)

Biff_Poindexter said:


> So no more cancer charities?
> 
> I wonder why


*Cancer charities?*

*why bring that up?*


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## Biff_Poindexter (Apr 27, 2022)

Polishprince said:


> The 2nd Amendment is a worthy charity as well.
> 
> Besides, fighting cancer would be stepping on Brandon's toes.   The so-called President is supposed to be committed to a moon shot to end cancer.   Trump will stay out of his way, and fight the plague of gunophobia.


I asked what happened to that whole cancer charity thing??

I heard they had to close that whole thing down.....did something happen?


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## Biff_Poindexter (Apr 27, 2022)

WillHaftawaite said:


> *Cancer charities?
> 
> why bring that up?*


Because only a moron will cheerlead Don Jr and charities without the context of how previous charities have fared under Trump...

But I forgot, you like to cape up for reactionary right-wing morons.....because of personal affinity


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## Hugo Furst (Apr 27, 2022)

Biff_Poindexter said:


> Because only a moron will cheerlead Don Jr and charities without the context of how previous charities have fared under Trump...
> 
> But I forgot, you like to cape up for reactionary right-wing morons.....because of personal affinity



no.

there is nothing in the OP or the article about Cancer charities.

Your post appears to be an attempt to derail.


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## Rye Catcher (Apr 27, 2022)

These four words, "shall not be infringed" is an absurdity. 

_A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear __Arms__, shall not be infringed._

*Arms are nunchucks, gravity knives, fragmentation grenades, anti tank bazookas, claymore mines, fully automatic long guns, surface to air missiles, etc. etc.  Thus the logic is clear, "shall not be infringed" is negotiable on all lethal weapons.  That includes small arms too!*
*
Now, control does not take away all firearms in the control of millions of us.  Gun Control is common sense: Do to the number of murders; The number of mass killings of innocents people going on way on days when they are in the wrong place at the wrong time, such as schools, movie theaters, concerts, parks, restaurants, and driving home on highways; Suicides and Accidents.
*
*The costs of these four words, "shall not be infringed" is not only an absurdity, it costs the nation an enormous amount of treasure and blood.*


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## Rye Catcher (Apr 27, 2022)

*I see the emoticon laughter has been used in response to my post above (#9) believes that convicted felons who committed crimes of murder, rape, armed robberies, felony domestic violence, and having been released on parole or their initial sentence; members of criminal gangs; others diagnosed as a danger to themselves or others, have the absolute right to own, possess or have in their custody and control lethal arms.*


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## 2aguy (Apr 27, 2022)

basquebromance said:


> the 2nd Amendment is non-negotiable.
> Don’t let them Europe your America
> 
> 
> ...




Excellent...........the NRA is.......in trouble.....we could use another group until it cleans up it's mess.......


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## 2aguy (Apr 27, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> These four words, "shall not be infringed" is an absurdity.
> 
> _A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear __Arms__, shall not be infringed._
> 
> ...




Please....explain to us "common sense," gun control....we will wait...

Till then....when a doofus like you says "common sense," gun control....you mean taking every gun except one shot, .22 caliber zip guns that only the rich and politically connected can actually own...........that, according to you, means the 2nd Amendment still exists...


And....

Total number of mass public shootings in 2021?

6

Total killed?

43.....

In a country of over 330 million....

Deer kill 200 people a year.

Lawn mowers kill between 90-100 people a year.

Ladders kill 300 people a year.

Cars killed over 39,000 people....

The rest of the shootings are a majority of criminals murdering criminals...criminals released from jail and prison by people like you, who then complain that the criminals are still shooting people......


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## 2aguy (Apr 27, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> *I see the emoticon laughter has been used in response to my post above (#9) believes that convicted felons who committed crimes of murder, rape, armed robberies, felony domestic violence, and having been released on parole or their initial sentence; members of criminal gangs; others diagnosed as a danger to themselves or others, have the absolute right to own, possess or have in their custody and control lethal arms.*




No.....I don't know of any 2nd Amendment supporters who support anything close to what you just posted.......

They just know you are an anti-gun fanatic, who pretends to want "common sense," gun control...using it as a fig leaf......when what you plan on doing is making buying, owning, and carrying a gun so difficult and legally perilous that no one except the rich and politically connected will be able to do it...


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## Rye Catcher (Apr 27, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Please....explain to us "common sense," gun control....we will wait...
> 
> Till then....when a doofus like you says "common sense," gun control....you mean taking every gun except one shot, .22 caliber zip guns that only the rich and politically connected can actually own...........that, according to you, means the 2nd Amendment still exists...
> 
> ...


Same bullshit, same whining and same out of touch with reality.  I suppose if someone he loves doesn't come home, but is taken to soon by a gun held by someone who should have never held one, he might not be so smug, so foolish and so limited in his thinking.

Common sense is exactly what it is, defined as, "good sense and sound judgment in practical matters."!


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## 2aguy (Apr 27, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> Same bullshit, same whining and same out of touch with reality.  I suppose if someone he loves doesn't come home, but is taken to soon by a gun held by someone who should have never held one, he might not be so smug, so foolish and so limited in his thinking.
> 
> Common sense is exactly what it is, defined as, "good sense and sound judgment in practical matters."!




And again....

Explain "common sense" gun control.....you didn't reply to that.  

Felons, and the dangerously mentally ill cannot buy, own or carry guns.....that is all we need once democrats like you stop releasing violent gun offenders over and over again....


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## M14 Shooter (Apr 28, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> These four words, "shall not be infringed" is an absurdity.


And yet, those words are there, and you don't get to ignore them.


Rye Catcher said:


> *Arms are nunchucks, gravity knives, fragmentation grenades....*


Not as the term us used in the 2nd Amendment.
But, you know this.


Rye Catcher said:


> *Now, control does not take away all firearms in the control of millions of us.  Gun Control is common sense: *


There's no sense at all to be found in the unnecessary and ineffective restrictions you seek to lay on the exercise of the right to keep and bear arms by the law abiding.


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## M14 Shooter (Apr 28, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> *I see the emoticon laughter has been used in response to my post above (#9) believes that convicted felons who committed crimes of murder, rape, armed robberies, felony domestic violence, and having been released on parole or their initial sentence; members of criminal gangs; others diagnosed as a danger to themselves or others, have the absolute right to own, possess or have in their custody and control lethal arms.*


Now you're just lying to yourself.


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## 2aguy (Apr 28, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> These four words, "shall not be infringed" is an absurdity.
> 
> _A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear __Arms__, shall not be infringed._
> 
> ...




Then it wouldn't be a violation of the first Amendment to limit how many words you are allowed to use when you write......right?   It wouldn't be a violation of the first Amendment to limit the number of pages you can write....right?

The blood and treasure saved by our 2nd Amendment is a lot more than criminals take using guns illegally.....

15 million innocent men, women and children were murdered by the socialists, with the help of the other governments in Europe....in 6 years.....more deaths than in 82 years of gun murder in the U.S....

Our guns prevent that from happening here.......


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## Rye Catcher (Apr 28, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And again....
> 
> Explain "common sense" gun control.....you didn't reply to that.
> 
> Felons, and the dangerously mentally ill cannot buy, own or carry guns.....that is all we need once democrats like you stop releasing violent gun offenders over and over again....


Your Statement:  "Felons, and the dangerously mentally ill cannot buy, own or carry guns"

Response:  As I stated above, BULLSHIT.  Guns sold at gun shows, on the streets, to friends and relatives, stolen and those purchased legally when paid for by someone who can't buy a gun.

Gun control laws, making the sale of a gun privately is a felony.  And the seller will be denied to own a gun and serve one year and a day in prison.


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## M14 Shooter (Apr 28, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> Your Statement:  "Felons, and the dangerously mentally ill cannot buy, own or carry guns"
> Response:  As I stated above, BULLSHIT.


More correctly:
Felons, and those adjudicated mentally infirm,  cannot -- LEGALLY -- buy, own, or carry guns.


Rye Catcher said:


> Gun control laws, making the sale of a gun privately is a felony.


Just another example of the unnecessary and ineffective restrictions you want to lay on the exercise of the right to keep and bear arms by the law abiding.


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## Ralph Norton (Apr 28, 2022)

"*Thus the logic is clear, "shall not be infringed" is negotiable on all lethal weapons. That includes small arms too!"*

The only thing that is clear is that your definition of "logic" is far different from mine.


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## Batcat (Apr 28, 2022)

basquebromance said:


> the 2nd Amendment is non-negotiable.
> Don’t let them Europe your America
> 
> 
> ...


I don’t trust any politician. From what I have seen charities run by politicians often end up as slush funds for the politician. Therefore I do not contribute to politicians or their charities. I contribute to charities rated highly by a reputable charity watch organization like …









						Charity Ratings and Donor Resources | Charity Navigator
					

Use Charity Navigator's ratings and resources to find and support highly rated charities that align with your passions and values. Whether you're looking to give toward international relief, the environment, animal welfare, or something else, we empower you to donate and volunteer with confidence.




					www.charitynavigator.org


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## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 28, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> These four words, "shall not be infringed" is an absurdity.
> 
> _A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear __Arms__, shall not be infringed._
> 
> ...


Red herring alert.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 28, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> Your Statement:  "Felons, and the dangerously mentally ill cannot buy, own or carry guns"
> 
> Response:  As I stated above, BULLSHIT.  Guns sold at gun shows, on the streets, to friends and relatives, stolen and those purchased legally when paid for by someone who can't buy a gun.
> 
> Gun control laws, making the sale of a gun privately is a felony.  And the seller will be denied to own a gun and serve one year and a day in prison.


Have you ever been to a gun show? 
There are laws that prohibit felines from pocessing a firearm but that does stop them. Why do judges allow prohibited people out of prison?


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## Batcat (Apr 28, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> These four words, "shall not be infringed" is an absurdity.
> 
> _A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear __Arms__, shall not be infringed._
> 
> ...


The fact that citizens can own firearms actually prevents more crime than it causes. 






						Guns Prevent Thousands of Crimes Every Day, Research Shows | Lawrence W. Reed
					

The Center for Disease Control, in a report ordered by President Obama in 2012 following the Sandy Hook Massacre, estimated that the number of crimes prevented by guns could be as high as 3 million annually, or some 8,200 every day. And there is plenty more evidence showing that guns keep...



					fee.org
				




It also prevents our government from treating our citizens like the Chinest are doing today to prevent the spread of COVID-19. The Democrats would love to run this nation like the Chinese Run theirs



			https://globalvoices.org/2022/04/26/the-censorship-of-shanghai-citizens-in-lockdown-sparks-an-uproar-on-chinese-social-media/]


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## 2aguy (Apr 29, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> Your Statement:  "Felons, and the dangerously mentally ill cannot buy, own or carry guns"
> 
> Response:  As I stated above, BULLSHIT.  Guns sold at gun shows, on the streets, to friends and relatives, stolen and those purchased legally when paid for by someone who can't buy a gun.
> 
> Gun control laws, making the sale of a gun privately is a felony.  And the seller will be denied to own a gun and serve one year and a day in prison.




As we keep telling you...we have the laws we need to arrest gun criminals...criminals will still ignore those laws....that's on you, doofus.

You anti-gun fanatics just keep showing us why we need to keep you out of power.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Apr 29, 2022)




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## Cardinal Carminative (Apr 29, 2022)

2aguy said:


> As we keep telling you...we have the laws we need to arrest gun criminals...criminals will still ignore those laws.



Then let's get rid of ALL LAWS!  LOL.


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## M14 Shooter (Apr 29, 2022)

PV System said:


> Then let's get rid of ALL LAWS!  LOL.


Fallacy:   _non seq_


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## Cardinal Carminative (Apr 30, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Fallacy:   _non seq_



Not really.  If one's claim is that gun laws will not stop gun criminals from breaking those laws then there's absolutely no reason to assume that ANY laws will stop ANY criminal from breaking those laws.

There is no fallacy in my reponse.

And it is _certainly _ not a non sequitur.  In fact it "follows" directly!


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## Rye Catcher (Apr 30, 2022)

2aguy said:


> As we keep telling you...we have the laws we need to arrest gun criminals...criminals will still ignore those laws....that's on you, doofus.
> 
> You anti-gun fanatics just keep showing us why we need to keep you out of power.


You are either an idiot, brainwashed or a damn liar.

Yes there are laws, and criminals are not the only ones who commit murders, commit suicide and sell and give guns to friends, neighbors, relatives, and those who buy guns for people knowingly that these guns are going to be sold for money to those who are criminals or those who are not mentally a danger to themselves or others.

Most laws are passed to protect We the People and their property.  It's people like you who are allowing criminals who have yet to have been arrested, and those who are protected by HIPAA rules who don't and can't disclose if their patient is a danger to themselves and others, unless the other person is a named person.

Many of those who commit mass murders of innocent people who are in schools, movie theaters, at concerts or eating in restaurants, etc. etc. have never been arrested, never convicted and never been treated by a psychologist or psychiatrist though some who know them know they are "different".

Q.  Is your right to own, possess and have in your custody and control a greater right than others to have the right to life?


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## Cardinal Carminative (Apr 30, 2022)

C'mon get yer guns!


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## 2aguy (Apr 30, 2022)

PV System said:


> Not really.  If one's claim is that gun laws will not stop gun criminals from breaking those laws then there's absolutely no reason to assume that ANY laws will stop ANY criminal from breaking those laws.
> 
> There is no fallacy in my reponse.
> 
> And it is _certainly _ not a non sequitur.  In fact it "follows" directly!




Wrong...what the laws do is allow us to lock up the criminals.....we state the law, they break it, we can isolate them from society.  The problem is the democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians releasing the most violent, dangerous criminals over and over again.


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## Failzero (Apr 30, 2022)

If you Remove Suicide & Accidental Death it goes to shit for Far Left & Left Democommie Gungrabbers


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## 2aguy (Apr 30, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> You are either an idiot, brainwashed or a damn liar.
> 
> Yes there are laws, and criminals are not the only ones who commit murders, commit suicide and sell and give guns to friends, neighbors, relatives, and those who buy guns for people knowingly that these guns are going to be sold for money to those who are criminals or those who are not mentally a danger to themselves or others.
> 
> ...




Dipshit.....

*Yes there are laws, and criminals are not the only ones who commit murders, commit suicide and sell and give guns to friends, neighbors, relatives, and those who buy guns for people knowingly that these guns are going to be sold for money to those who are criminals or those who are not mentally a danger to themselves or others.

90% of murder is committed by criminals with long histories of crime and violence going back to their teen years......you doofus...so no, normal people who suddenly get the urge to murder their wife over dinner are not the problem....*

*suicide is not a gun issue, you twit......stop mixing it into the gun debate.*

*Friends, neighbors, and relatives are not fueling gun crime.....straw buyers, the individuals who are knowingly providing guns to actual criminals so they can commit crime with them are the problem....and no, the mothers, sisters, baby mommas, grandmothers of criminals are not the people you are talking about in that quote....they are not normal people...they are the friends, neighbors, and relatives of known criminals and are intentionally supplying them with guns either for money or because they are threatened with physical violence.....you are lying in order to push your agenda...*

The Criminology of Firearms
In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

*Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.*

*While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. 


Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."*


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## 2aguy (Apr 30, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> You are either an idiot, brainwashed or a damn liar.
> 
> Yes there are laws, and criminals are not the only ones who commit murders, commit suicide and sell and give guns to friends, neighbors, relatives, and those who buy guns for people knowingly that these guns are going to be sold for money to those who are criminals or those who are not mentally a danger to themselves or others.
> 
> ...




They are equal, but my Right to own and carry a gun which I do not use in an illegal manner cannot be taken because a tiny number of people break the law.......you Right to speech is not taken from you because some people use computers for child porn......you doofus.


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## Rye Catcher (Apr 30, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Have you ever been to a gun show?
> There are laws that prohibit felines from pocessing a firearm but that does stop them. Why do judges allow prohibited people out of prison?


I've never gone to gun show.  Yet I've read that outside in parking of a gun show there are sales.  As to the cats, they are prohibit and I doubt that any cats have ever carried any firearms.

Not only are you making judgements about judges making decisions, it shows how ignorant you are.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 30, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> I've never gone to gun show.  Yet I've read that outside in parking of a gun show there are sales.  As to the cats, they are prohibit and I doubt that any cats have ever carried any firearms.
> 
> Not only are you making judgements about judges making decisions, it shows how ignorant you are.


Never been, information given was hearsay,
So it's safe to say you don't know what you are talking about.
Sorry about the typo felons
I judge a judge on their actions


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## toobfreak (Apr 30, 2022)

basquebromance said:


> Donald Trump Jr launches 2nd amendment task force to fight the left​



Leave it to a Trump to do this, because no one ever gets any real action or fight back from the GOP--- just lip service.


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## Zincwarrior (Apr 30, 2022)

basquebromance said:


> the 2nd Amendment is non-negotiable.
> Don’t let them Europe your America
> 
> 
> ...


Bump stock ban was Trump.


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## Zincwarrior (Apr 30, 2022)

WillHaftawaite said:


> *Cancer charities?
> 
> why bring that up?*


Because he literally can't be legally associated with one.


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## Rye Catcher (Apr 30, 2022)

As to the RED HERRING:

 The “red herring” fallacy comes from a 19th-century story about using the smell of a herring to distract dogs from chasing a rabbit; thus in all of your posts to protect the 2nd Amendment you have used irrelevant comments which only biddable fools chase the scent and not the rabbit.  I will keep chasing the rabbit and sooner or later the 2nd A. will eliminate these four words:  "shall not be infringed".

Better for you to admit this phase and allow a little gun control to save lives and a little less freedom to enjoy your enjoyment with your guns.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Apr 30, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Wrong...what the laws do is allow us to lock up the criminals.....we state the law, they break it, we can isolate them from society.  The problem is the democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians releasing the most violent, dangerous criminals over and over again.



It is clear you didn't follow the conversation.


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## Rye Catcher (Apr 30, 2022)

2aguy said:


> They are equal, but my Right to own and carry a gun which I do not use in an illegal manner cannot be taken because a tiny number of people break the law.......you Right to speech is not taken from you because some people use computers for child porn......you doofus.





2aguy said:


> They are equal, but my Right to own and carry a gun which I do not use in an illegal manner cannot be taken because a tiny number of people break the law.......you Right to speech is not taken from you because some people use computers for child porn......you doofus.



Go play with your guns, soon enough a Congress will piss off the wedge issue and pass legislation of common sense.  Something you lack.


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## Rye Catcher (Apr 30, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Never been, information given was hearsay,
> So it's safe to say you don't know what you are talking about.
> Sorry about the typo felons
> I judge a judge on their actions




As a mater of fact hearsay can be probative evidence.  









						Gun show loophole - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## Open Bolt (May 1, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> These four words, "shall not be infringed" is an absurdity.


Not really.




Rye Catcher said:


> Arms are nunchucks, gravity knives, fragmentation grenades, anti tank bazookas, claymore mines, fully automatic long guns, surface to air missiles, etc. etc.


Keep in mind that the Constitution specifies the federal role of the militia as: enforcing the law, suppressing insurrection, and repelling invasion.  Weapons that are too destructive for such duties can be excluded from the Second Amendment.  So there is no need to worry about nuclear-tipped ICBMs.

It is also possible to regard the right to keep and bear arms as referring only to the sorts of weapons that are carried and operated by individual soldiers.

This still leaves us with the right to have fragmentation grenades, unguided anti tank bazookas, claymore mines, and fully automatic long guns, but not heavier military weapons.

Shoulder-fired missiles that are guided are actually crew served weapons, so only unguided bazookas would fall under the Second Amendment if is limited to individually-operated weapons.




Rye Catcher said:


> Thus the logic is clear, "shall not be infringed" is negotiable on all lethal weapons.  That includes small arms too!


The Heller ruling protects our right to have weapons that are suitable for self defense, as well as weapons that there is no justification for restricting.




Rye Catcher said:


> Now, control does not take away all firearms in the control of millions of us.  Gun Control is common sense:


Every time I hear some variation of the term "common sense", whatever is being proposed is invariably a violation of our civil liberties.




Rye Catcher said:


> Due to the number of murders; The number of mass killings of innocents people going on way on days when they are in the wrong place at the wrong time, such as schools, movie theaters, concerts, parks, restaurants, and driving home on highways; Suicides and Accidents.
> The costs of these four words, "shall not be infringed" is not only an absurdity, it costs the nation an enormous amount of treasure and blood.


No such cost exists.  Gun availability has little impact on homicide rates.








						Everybody's Lying About the Link Between Gun Ownership and Homicide
					

Revealing how the media lies with graphs to further an anti-gun agenda.




					hwfo.substack.com


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## M14 Shooter (May 1, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> It's people like you who are allowing criminals who have yet to have been arrested, and those who are protected by HIPAA rules who don't and can't disclose if their patient is a danger to themselves and others, unless the other person is a named person.


The Ministry of Truth has classified your post as disinformation.


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## bigrebnc1775 (May 1, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> As a mater of fact hearsay can be probative evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It can be but generally not allowed


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## Failzero (May 1, 2022)

Suicide & Accidental Discharge should not be factored into all of this


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## Rye Catcher (May 1, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Not really.
> 
> 
> 
> ...











						What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.
					

In 2020, the U.S. experienced a record number of gun murders, as well as a near-record number of gun suicides.




					www.pewresearch.org


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## 2aguy (May 1, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.
> 
> 
> In 2020, the U.S. experienced a record number of gun murders, as well as a near-record number of gun suicides.
> ...




What caused the record number of gun murders?

1) in 2015 the democrat party declared war on the police.....they attacked them relentlessly to the point police stopped pro-active policing in order to save themselves from lawsuits and jail cells for even the smallest mistake, or justified action that was turned into a crime.........so criminals learned that the police would no longer actively go after them....they started carrying guns on their persons instead of leaving them at home or in their baby mommas purse.....

2) the democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians began to actively release the most violent and dangerous criminals....the ones doing the shootings in the tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities that drive the gun murder numbers in this country.

3) the democrat party turned loose their brown shirts....blm/antifa to riot, burn, loot and kill in primarily black neighborhoods in order to hurt Trump before the election.....to aid the democrat party brown shirts, blm/antifa, the democrat party mayors of the cities under attack ordered the police to stand down and to not stop the blm/antifa brown shirts....

Those are the reasons we had an increase in gun crime...it had nothing to do with normal gun owners...how do we know this...?

27 years of experience prior to 2015....

Over  27 years,  from 1993  to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019 (in 2020 that number is 21.52 million)...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

*Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Why do our democrat party controlled cities have gun crime problems?

What changed in 2015?

The democrat party decided to attack the police to the point the police stopped doing their jobs....

The democrat party ramped up the release of repeat gun offenders, their judges, prosecutors and politicians keep releasing the most violent offenders no matter how many gun felonies they get...

The democrat party released their blm/antifa brown shirts to murder, loot, and burn for 7 months, in primarily black neighborhoods and told the police to stand down and allow it to happen...


We don't have gun murder because normal people have guns...we have a gun crime problem because the democrat party wants more crime...*


----------



## 2aguy (May 1, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.
> 
> 
> In 2020, the U.S. experienced a record number of gun murders, as well as a near-record number of gun suicides.
> ...




Suicides are not a gun issue...just ask the South Koreans and Japanese, and the Chinese......


----------



## Open Bolt (May 1, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.
> 
> 
> In 2020, the U.S. experienced a record number of gun murders, as well as a near-record number of gun suicides.
> ...


People who are murdered with guns would be just as dead if they were murdered with a different kind of weapon.


----------



## Failzero (May 1, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Suicides are not a gun issue...just ask the South Koreans and Japanese, and the Chinese......


Ornamentals are well, Crazy Asians


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 1, 2022)

Failzero said:


> Suicide & Accidental Discharge should not be factored into all of this



Guns actually make a suicide attempt more likely a successful suicide.  They are also an easily-obtained piece of equipment that turns a moment of desperation into an action that cannot be undone.

The ONLY reason to not factor in suicide in all this is because even gun advocates know that these things are serious pieces of equipment that should be more highly controlled.


----------



## Failzero (May 1, 2022)

PV System said:


> Guns actually make a suicide attempt more likely a successful suicide.  They are also an easily-obtained piece of equipment that turns a moment of desperation into an action that cannot be undone.
> 
> The ONLY reason to not factor in suicide in all this is because even gun advocates know that these things are serious pieces of equipment that should be more highly controlled.


Uh no , 2A Purists say Shall not be infringed , Moderates like me think there are rare cases where there should be Prohibited Persons ( Illegals ) (Escaped Prisoners) ( Foreign Terrorists in the Country Illegally ) ( Mental Patients ) ...


----------



## 2aguy (May 1, 2022)

PV System said:


> Guns actually make a suicide attempt more likely a successful suicide.  They are also an easily-obtained piece of equipment that turns a moment of desperation into an action that cannot be undone.
> 
> The ONLY reason to not factor in suicide in all this is because even gun advocates know that these things are serious pieces of equipment that should be more highly controlled.




Except when morons like you make that claim, you never answer the question about South Korea, Japan and China and their higher levels of suicide.....they have extreme gun control, criminals and cops have guns, normal people do not.....and then you guys just ignore it and go on with your stupid suicide claim......

You can't even explain how many European countries with their extreme gun control laws have higher suicide rates than we do.....

You just go quiet, and pretend you never saw the question....


----------



## 2aguy (May 1, 2022)

PV System said:


> Guns actually make a suicide attempt more likely a successful suicide.  They are also an easily-obtained piece of equipment that turns a moment of desperation into an action that cannot be undone.
> 
> The ONLY reason to not factor in suicide in all this is because even gun advocates know that these things are serious pieces of equipment that should be more highly controlled.




They are highly controlled...our problem is the democrat party releasing the most violent, most dangerous criminals over and over again.....they are the ones committing the most shootings in the tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities....and you morons never want to address that fact.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 1, 2022)

2aguy said:


> They are highly controlled...our problem is the democrat party releasing the most violent, most dangerous criminals over and over again.....they are the ones committing the most shootings in the tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities....and you morons never want to address that fact.











						Fact check: Big cities have crime and more Democrats, but it's a stretch to link them
					

A viral Facebook post links “America’s deadliest cities” with having a “Democrat majority,” implying a causal connection. But that's a stretch at best.



					www.usatoday.com


----------



## 2aguy (May 1, 2022)

PV System said:


> Fact check: Big cities have crime and more Democrats, but it's a stretch to link them
> 
> 
> A viral Facebook post links “America’s deadliest cities” with having a “Democrat majority,” implying a causal connection. But that's a stretch at best.
> ...




You were given link after link showing exactly how the democrat party created and enacted policies that release, or keep from prosecuting the most violent gun criminals......after being shown the list, you complained about the list..........

The democrat party is responsible for the increase in gun crime....they started this in 2015 with the intent of hurting President Trump during the election, and because they actually believe that the violent, dangerous criminals they release are the victims of injustice...they are insane.....


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 1, 2022)

2aguy said:


> You were given link after link showing exactly how the democrat party created and enacted policies that release, or keep from prosecuting the most violent gun criminals......after being shown the list, you complained about the list..........



And you were shown a fact check and you complain about the fact check.



2aguy said:


> The democrat party is responsible for the increase in gun crime....they started this in 2015 with the intent of hurting President Trump during the election



That's some serious top-shelf tinfoil hat stuff.  Congrats.



2aguy said:


> , and because they actually believe that the violent, dangerous criminals they release are the victims of injustice...they are insane.....



SOMEONE is having difficulty with sanity right 'bout now.


----------



## 2aguy (May 1, 2022)

PV System said:


> And you were shown a fact check and you complain about the fact check.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You don't have a fact check........you have a leftist gaslighting the truth....in order to protect the democrat party and their brown shirts, the blm/antifa racists who burned, looted and murdered in black neighborhoods for 7 months...


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 1, 2022)

2aguy said:


> You don't have a fact check



Isn't it funny how EVERY fact checker on earth seems to question the points you hold dear?


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 1, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.
> 
> 
> In 2020, the U.S. experienced a record number of gun murders, as well as a near-record number of gun suicides.
> ...


M'kay.
Demonstrate cause for the rise.


----------



## 2aguy (May 2, 2022)

PV System said:


> Isn't it funny how EVERY fact checker on earth seems to question the points you hold dear?




That fact check?  Is Bullshit...........they point out that democrats are controlling the very areas of the cities that have the worst violence....then refuse to look at the policies of the democrats that create that violence...the actual policy of attacking and undermining the police.....and the actual policy of releasing, over and over again, the tiny number of the most violent, dangerous criminals who are the ones shooting people......

From your link..

The first dodge....

*We’re taking this claim to refer to the politics of the city as a whole, rather than the leadership, since the “majority” reference and the adaptation of the gun control phrase both seem to refer to a general group more than those in authority.


The democrats in authority are the ones attacking the police, making them stop doing their jobs for fear of being sued, loss of their jobs, pensions, and possible jail.......and the democrats in authority, the judges, prosecutors and politicians creating and implementing actual policies that release the most violent and dangerous criminals back into those neighborhoods where they go on to attack more and more law abiding citizens....*

Dodge number two....

*Elected leadership skews heavily Democratic in these cities as well. Among the 25 cities with the highest murder/manslaughter rate in 2018, three had Republican mayors, according to Ballotpedia and our research.*

*And again.........the leadership enacts the policies that attack the police and releasse violent criminals...

And then the lie.......*

Connecting violence and party not reasonable​All of which brings us to the core question: Is it reasonable to connect the violence and partisanship?

In short, no.

*This is why your "fact check," is stupid............it lies....I stated two things that directly effect the crime rates in democrat party cities.........and they do their best tap dance to not focus on actual policies...

So again, this "fact check," is a lie...*


----------



## Rye Catcher (May 2, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> People who are murdered with guns would be just as dead if they were murdered with a different kind of weapon.


Rarely:  knives, hands, hammers, poisons, etc. are not produced to kill.


----------



## Rye Catcher (May 2, 2022)

2aguy said:


> That fact check?  Is Bullshit...........they point out that democrats are controlling the very areas of the cities that have the worst violence....then refuse to look at the policies of the democrats that create that violence...the actual policy of attacking and undermining the police.....and the actual policy of releasing, over and over again, the tiny number of the most violent, dangerous criminals who are the ones shooting people......
> 
> From your link..
> 
> ...


*Your posts have all been both ludicrous and off topic.

Democrats mostly believe common sense control to seek the illegal sale of guns, and the illegal guns (ghost guns for example) and background checks;  making all LE agencies and courts on every sale to report crimes on findings of civil committments as a danger to themselves or others.

Your claim that cities run by Democrats have more crime is true, however, the Democrats are not the cause of gun violence or other crimes; the number of crimes are do to the numbers of population in major cities - rural, small towns are sure to know who commit crimes and thus all of your claims are worthless.*


----------



## 2aguy (May 2, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> Rarely:  knives, hands, hammers, poisons, etc. are not produced to kill.




Yet knives, hands, hammers kill more people than rifles do each year.....so they are more dangerous than rifles, even the AR-15....

Cars kill over 39,000 people every year, and the fact that cars are not designed to kill, but kill more people than guns do, makes them even more dangerous than guns...you doofus....


----------



## 2aguy (May 2, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> *Your posts have all been both ludicrous and off topic.
> 
> Democrats mostly believe common sense control to seek the illegal sale of guns, and the illegal guns (ghost guns for example) and background checks;  making all LE agencies and courts on every sale to report crimes on findings of civil committments as a danger to themselves or others.
> 
> Your claim that cities run by Democrats have more crime is true, however, the Democrats are not the cause of gun violence or other crimes; the number of crimes are do to the numbers of population in major cities - rural, small towns are sure to know who commit crimes and thus all of your claims are worthless.*




And we already have all those things.....

No.......the democrat party policies create more gun crime.....attacking the police to the point they can't, or stop doing their jobs, and then the democrat party policies releasing violent, dangerous criminals over and over again drive the gun murder rates in democrat party controlled cities.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 2, 2022)

PV System said:


> Isn't it funny how EVERY fact checker on earth seems to question the points you hold dear?


The Ministry of Truth has flagged your post as disinformation.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 2, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> *Your posts have all been both ludicrous and off topic.*


The Ministry of Truth has flagged your post as disinformation.


----------



## Open Bolt (May 2, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> Rarely:


That is incorrect.  Murders happen just as often when other kinds of weapons are used.

Statistics show that gun availability has little impact on homicide rates.









						Everybody's Lying About the Link Between Gun Ownership and Homicide
					

Revealing how the media lies with graphs to further an anti-gun agenda.




					hwfo.substack.com
				







Rye Catcher said:


> knives, hands, hammers, poisons, etc. are not produced to kill.


Neither are many kinds of guns.

Self-defense guns are produced to protect.

Target-shooting guns are produced to strike non-living objects.

About the only types of guns that are produced to kill are hunting weapons, which are intended to kill game animals.


----------



## Rye Catcher (May 2, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yet knives, hands, hammers kill more people than rifles do each year.....so they are more dangerous than rifles, even the AR-15....
> 
> Cars kill over 39,000 people every year, and the fact that cars are not designed to kill, but kill more people than guns do, makes them even more dangerous than guns...you doofus....


Really, it's unfortunate your responses are a weak form of sophistry.  Both are apocryphal and the use of fallacious arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving the biddable fools, of which I am not a member.


----------



## Rye Catcher (May 2, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> That is incorrect.  Murders happen just as often when other kinds of weapons are used.
> 
> Statistics show that gun availability has little impact on homicide rates.
> 
> ...


Another example of sophistry ^^^!


----------



## Open Bolt (May 2, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> Really, it's unfortunate your responses are a weak form of sophistry.  Both are apocryphal and the use of fallacious arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving the biddable fools, of which I am not a member.





Rye Catcher said:


> Another example of sophistry ^^^!


I doubt that anyone can point out any flaws in either his arguments or my arguments.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 2, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I doubt that anyone can point out any flaws in either his arguments or my arguments.



If not then they are as bad at this as most 2A defenders these days.  The arguments are facile and weak.


----------



## Open Bolt (May 2, 2022)

PV System said:


> If not then they are as bad at this as most 2A defenders these days.  The arguments are facile and weak.


I still don't see anyone posting anything that manages to undermine our arguments.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 3, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I still don't see anyone posting anything that manages to undermine our arguments.



You guys never do.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (May 3, 2022)

PV System said:


> You guys never do.


You have it ass backwards


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 3, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> You have it ass backwards



^^^^this^^^^


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (May 3, 2022)

PV System said:


> ^^^^this^^^^


Yes you have it ass backwards


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 3, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And again....
> 
> Explain "common sense" gun control.....you didn't reply to that.
> 
> Felons, and the dangerously mentally ill cannot buy, own or carry guns.....that is all we need once democrats like you stop releasing violent gun offenders over and over again....


FOS, as usual.

So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 15, 2018

February 28 2017
President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.

Specifically, what Obama did was order to Social Security Administration to take the list of people who were deemed so severely mentally ill that they are unfit to handle their own disability benefits and forward it to the FBI. The FBI was then supposed to incorporate that list in the background checks used to disqualify people from gun ownership.

The rule, which was finalized in December, added people receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and people deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs to the national background check database.

The vote was part of a larger suite of Congressional Review Act measures that passed early in the Trump administration. The CRA allows Congress to overrule recently enacted regulatory initiatives passed by the executive branch. CRA bills can’t be filibustered, but they _do_ need to be signed by the president.


----------



## Open Bolt (May 3, 2022)

PV System said:


> You guys never do.


That's because there are never any arguments presented that are an effective challenge to our position.


----------



## Open Bolt (May 3, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> FOS, as usual.


I'm guessing that you cannot point out any errors in any of his posts.




Smokin' OP said:


> February 28 2017
> President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.
> 
> Specifically, what Obama did was order to Social Security Administration to take the list of people who were deemed so severely mentally ill that they are unfit to handle their own disability benefits and forward it to the FBI. The FBI was then supposed to incorporate that list in the background checks used to disqualify people from gun ownership.
> ...


That is not an example of dangerous people being prevented from having guns.

That is an example of progressives violating people's civil liberties for no reason (no reason other than the fact that progressives actually enjoy violating people's civil liberties that is).

Not being able to balance a checkbook does not mean that a disabled person is a danger to themselves or others.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 3, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> That's because there are never any arguments presented that are an effective challenge to our position.



If that makes you feel better.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 3, 2022)

Hey, 2A Proponents, if Roe gets axed along the lines of a flawed emphasis on an implied "right to privacy" will you be OK if that is expanded to national gun registries?  You may have the right to own a gun but you don't have a right to keep it secret.  

Just curious how the RIght's push to a more state-centered control type government sits with you.


----------



## 2aguy (May 3, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> FOS, as usual.
> 
> So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!
> 
> ...




Moron.......only a tiny number of people are dangerously mentally ill, the vast majority are passive or dangerous only to themselves....you asswipes want to use everything you can to ban guns for normal people, including using the psychiatric profession to do you dirty work....

The various mass public shooters, lately, have been well known to the police and even the FBI, and they didn't do anything to stop them...you moron.


----------



## 2aguy (May 3, 2022)

PV System said:


> Hey, 2A Proponents, if Roe gets axed along the lines of a flawed emphasis on an implied "right to privacy" will you be OK if that is expanded to national gun registries?  You may have the right to own a gun but you don't have a right to keep it secret.
> 
> Just curious how the RIght's push to a more state-centered control type government sits with you.




Killing babies was never a Right.   Owning a gun is....


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 3, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Killing babies was never a Right.   Owning a gun is....



I never said you couldn't own guns.  I just said if there is no right to privacy in the Constitution and that is how Roe is overturned then it will apply to guns as well.  You might have to face a nationwide gun registry.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 3, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Moron.......only a tiny number of people are dangerously mentally ill, the vast majority are passive or dangerous only to themselves....you asswipes want to use everything you can to ban guns for normal people, including using the psychiatric profession to do you dirty work....
> 
> The various mass public shooters, lately, have been well known to the police and even the FBI, and they didn't do anything to stop them...you moron.



That's a gross oversimplification of how the State can deal with the mentally ill.


----------



## Open Bolt (May 3, 2022)

PV System said:


> If that makes you feel better.


Conservatives are always comfortable with reality.




PV System said:


> Hey, 2A Proponents, if Roe gets axed along the lines of a flawed emphasis on an implied "right to privacy" will you be OK if that is expanded to national gun registries?  You may have the right to own a gun but you don't have a right to keep it secret.


We deny you permission to implement a national gun registry.




PV System said:


> Just curious how the RIght's push to a more state-centered control type government sits with you.


I wonder where the abortion movement would be today if they had bothered to have respect for the rights of men too.

The movement might still be alive right now.

Oh well.  Not my problem.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 3, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> We deny you permission to implement a national gun registry.



On what grounds?  If you don't enjoy a right to privacy there's absolutely no reason why you can deny any such thing.



Open Bolt said:


> I wonder where the abortion movement would be today if they had bothered to have respect for the rights of men too.



Why am I not surprised at you being a "Mens Rights" kinda guy.



Open Bolt said:


> Oh well.  Not my problem.



Precedent has a tendency to become a problem real fast.

Enjoy!


----------



## 2aguy (May 3, 2022)

PV System said:


> I never said you couldn't own guns.  I just said if there is no right to privacy in the Constitution and that is how Roe is overturned then it will apply to guns as well.  You might have to face a nationwide gun registry.




Nope.......5th Amendment ..........  

Then you have the equal protection under the law.....felons do not have to register their illegal guns...do you know about that little thing?

Haynes v United States.....

*As with many other 5th amendment cases, felons and others prohibited from possessing firearms could not be compelled to incriminate themselves through registration.[3][4]*





__





						Haynes v. United States - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




If criminals don't have to register their illegal guns, it makes no sense that normal people would have to register theirs.......also, you can't be forced to incriminate yourself under the 5th Amendment..........which means registration is unConstitutional....


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 3, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Nope.......5th Amendment ..........
> 
> Then you have the equal protection under the law.....felons do not have to register their illegal guns...do you know about that little thing?
> 
> ...



I love how secure you guys are in your "rights".  Meanwhile 50 years worth of settled law (as attested to by just about every sitting SCOTUS justice during their hearings) is being dismantled right before our eyes.

Good luck with this.


----------



## 2aguy (May 3, 2022)

PV System said:


> I love how secure you guys are in your "rights".  Meanwhile 50 years worth of settled law (as attested to by just about every sitting SCOTUS justice during their hearings) is being dismantled right before our eyes.
> 
> Good luck with this.




No....50 years of bad law, just like Dredd Scott or Plessy v. Ferguson.....both were wrong as is Roe...


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 3, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No....50 years of bad law, just like Dredd Scott or Plessy v. Ferguson.....both were wrong as is Roe...



Why was it bad law again?  (Remember: don't say anything about implied right to privacy!)


----------



## 2aguy (May 3, 2022)

PV System said:


> Why was it bad law again?  (Remember: don't say anything about implied right to privacy!)




They made it up.  No where in the Constitution are you allowed to murder innocent human beings.....


----------



## Failzero (May 3, 2022)

PV System said:


> I never said you couldn't own guns.  I just said if there is no right to privacy in the Constitution and that is how Roe is overturned then it will apply to guns as well.  You might have to face a nationwide gun registry.


Register Socialists not Firearms


----------



## 2aguy (May 3, 2022)

PV System said:


> Why was it bad law again?  (Remember: don't say anything about implied right to privacy!)




Here Some thoughts from Ruth Bader Ginsburg and others...

*Just look at what pro-choice legal scholars say. Ruth Bader Ginsburg called the ruling "heavy-handed judicial activism." Laurence Tribe wrote "behind its own verbal smokescreen, the substantive judgment on which it rests is nowhere to be found." Former Harry Blackmun clerk Edward Lazarus wrote "[A]s a matter of constitutional interpretation, even most liberal jurisprudes — if you administer truth serum — will tell you it is basically indefensible."
----------

Laurence Tribe — Harvard Law School. Lawyer for Al Gore in 2000. *
*
“One of the most curious things about Roe is that, behind its own verbal smokescreen, the substantive judgment on which it rests is nowhere to be found.” 

“The Supreme Court, 1972 Term—Foreword: Toward a Model of Roles in the Due Process of Life and Law,” 87 Harvard Law Review 1, 7 (1973). 
*
*Ruth Bader Ginsburg — Associate Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court 

“Roe, I believe, would have been more acceptable as a judicial decision if it had not gone beyond a ruling on the extreme statute before the court. … Heavy-handed judicial intervention was difficult to justify and appears to have provoked, not resolved, conflict.” 

North Carolina Law Review, 1985 
*
*Edward Lazarus — Former clerk to Harry Blackmun. 

“As a matter of constitutional interpretation and judicial method, Roe borders on the indefensible. I say this as someone utterly committed to the right to choose, as someone who believes such a right has grounding elsewhere in the Constitution instead of where Roe placed it, and as someone who loved Roe’s author like a grandfather.”
…. 

“What, exactly, is the problem with Roe? The problem, I believe, is that it has little connection to the Constitutional right it purportedly interpreted. A constitutional right to privacy broad enough to include abortion has no meaningful foundation in constitutional text, history, or precedent - at least, it does not if those sources are fairly described and reasonably faithfully followed.” 

“The Lingering Problems with Roe v. Wade, and Why the Recent Senate Hearings on Michael McConnell’s Nomination Only Underlined Them,” FindLaw Legal Commentary, Oct. 3, 2002 

“[A]s a matter of constitutional interpretation, even most liberal jurisprudes — if you administer truth serum — will tell you it is basically indefensible.” 

“Liberals, Don’t Make Her an Icon” Washington Post July 10, 2003. 
*
*
William Saletan — Slate columnist who left the GOP 2004 because it was too pro-life. 

“Blackmun’s [Supreme Court] papers vindicate every indictment of Roe: invention, overreach, arbitrariness, textual indifference.” 

“Unbecoming Justice Blackmun,” Legal Affairs, May/June 2005. 
*
*
John Hart Ely — Yale Law School, Harvard Law School, Stanford Law School 

Roe “is not constitutional law and gives almost no sense of an obligation to try to be.”
…. 

“What is frightening about Roe is that this super-protected right is not inferable from the language of the Constitution, the framers’ thinking respecting the specific problem in issue, any general value derivable from the provisions they included, or the nation’s governmental structure. Nor is it explainable in terms of the unusual political impotence of the group judicially protected vis-à-vis the interest that legislatively prevailed over it.… At times the inferences the Court has drawn from the values the Constitution marks for special protection have been controversial, even shaky, but never before has its sense of an obligation to draw one been so obviously lacking.” 

“The Wages of Crying Wolf: A Comment on Roe v. Wade,” 82 Yale Law Journal, 920, 935-937 (1973). 
*
*
Benjamin Wittes — Washington Post

Roe “is a lousy opinion that disenfranchised millions of conservatives on an issue about which they care deeply.” 

“Letting Go of Roe,” The Atlantic Monthly, Jan/Feb 2005. 
*
*
Richard Cohen — Washington Post

“[T]he very basis of the Roe v. Wade decision — the one that grounds abortion rights in the Constitution — strikes many people now as faintly ridiculous. Whatever abortion may be, it cannot simply be a matter of privacy.”
…. 

“As a layman, it’s hard for me to raise profound constitutional objections to the decision. But it is not hard to say it confounds our common-sense understanding of what privacy is. 

“If a Supreme Court ruling is going to affect so many people then it ought to rest on perfectly clear logic and up-to-date science. Roe , with its reliance on trimesters and viability, has a musty feel to it, and its argument about privacy raises more questions than it answers.
…. 

Roe “is a Supreme Court decision whose reasoning has not held up. It seems more fiat than argument.”
…. 

“Still, a bad decision is a bad decision. If the best we can say for it is that the end justifies the means, then we have not only lost the argument — but a bit of our soul as well.” 

“Support Choice, Not Roe” Washington Post, October 19, 2005. 
*
*
Alan Dershowitz — Harvard Law School 

Roe v. Wade and Bush v. Gore “represent opposite sides of the same currency of judicial activism in areas more appropriately left to the political processes…. Judges have no special competence, qualifications, or mandate to decide between equally compelling moral claims (as in the abortion controversy)…. [C]lear governing constitutional principles … are not present in either case.” 

Supreme Injustice: How the High Court Hijacked Election 2000 (New York: Oxford) 2001, p. 194. 


*
*Cass Sunstein — University of Chicago and a Democratic adviser on judicial nominations 

“In the Court’s first confrontation with the abortion issue, it laid down a set of rules for legislatures to follow. The Court decided too many issues too quickly. The Court should have allowed the democratic processes of the states to adapt and to generate sensible solutions that might not occur to a set of judges.” 

“The Supreme Court 1995 Term: FOREWORD: LEAVING THINGS UNDECIDED,” 110 Harvard Law Review 6, 20 (1996). 

“What I think is that it just doesn’t have the stable status of Brown or Miranda because it’s been under internal and external assault pretty much from the beginning…. As a constitutional matter, I think Roe was way overreached. I wouldn’t vote to overturn it myself, but that’s because I think it’s good to preserve precedent in general, and the country has sufficiently relied on it that it should not be overruled.” 

Quoted in: Brian McGuire, “Roe v. Wade an Issue Ahead of Alito Hearing,” New York Sun November 15, 2005 
*
*
Jeffrey Rosen — Legal Affairs Editor, The New Republic

“In short, 30 years later, it seems increasingly clear that this pro-choice magazine was correct in 1973 when it criticized Roe on constitutional grounds. Its overturning would be the best thing that could happen to the federal judiciary, the pro-choice movement, and the moderate majority of the American people.
…. 

“Thirty years after Roe, the finest constitutional minds in the country still have not been able to produce a constitutional justification for striking down restrictions on early-term abortions that is substantially more convincing than Justice Harry Blackmun’s famously artless opinion itself. As a result, the pro-choice majority asks nominees to swear allegiance to the decision without being able to identify an intelligible principle to support it.” 

“Worst Choice” The New Republic February 24, 2003 
*
*Michael Kinsley

“Against all odds (and, I’m afraid, against all logic), the basic holding of Roe v. Wade is secure in the Supreme Court.
…. 

“…a freedom of choice law would guarantee abortion rights the correct way, democratically, rather than by constitutional origami.” 

“Bad Choice” The New Republic, June 13, 1994. 

“Liberal judicial activism peaked with Roe v. Wade, the 1973 abortion decision…. 

“Although I am pro-choice, I was taught in law school, and still believe, that Roe v. Wade is a muddle of bad reasoning and an authentic example of judicial overreaching. I also believe it was a political disaster for liberals. Roe is what first politicized religious conservatives while cutting off a political process that was legalizing abortion state by state anyway.” 

“The Right’s Kind of Activism,” Washington Post, November 14, 2004. 
*
*Kermit Roosevelt — University of Pennsylvania Law School 

“t is time to admit in public that, as an example of the practice of constitutional opinion writing, Roe is a serious disappointment. You will be hard-pressed to find a constitutional law professor, even among those who support the idea of constitutional protection for the right to choose, who will embrace the opinion itself rather than the result. 

“This is not surprising. As constitutional argument, Roe is barely coherent. The court pulled its fundamental right to choose more or less from the constitutional ether. It supported that right via a lengthy, but purposeless, cross-cultural historical review of abortion restrictions and a tidy but irrelevant refutation of the straw-man argument that a fetus is a constitutional ‘person’ entited to the protection of the 14th Amendment.
…. 

“By declaring an inviolable fundamental right to abortion, Roe short-circuited the democratic deliberation that is the most reliable method of deciding questions of competing values.” 

“Shaky Basis for a Constitutional ‘Right’,” Washington Post, January 22, 2003. 
*_
*Archibald Cox — JFK's Solicitor General, Harvard Law School 

“The failure to confront the issue in principled terms leaves the opinion to read like a set of hospital rules and regulations…. Neither historian, nor layman, nor lawyer will be persuaded that all the prescriptions of Justice Blackmun are part of the Constitution” 
*
*The Role of the Supreme Court in American Government, pp. 113-114 (1976)*









						The pervading dishonesty of Roe v. Wade
					

Roe v. Wade, which declared abortion to be constitutionally protected, and thus voided state laws banning it, was a horrible decision morally and legally. So when President Obama praises the decision on its 39th anniversary, he either shows a strikingly poor understanding of constitutional law…




					www.washingtonexaminer.com
				



_


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 3, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Here Some thoughts from Ruth Bader Ginsburg and others...
> 
> *Just look at what pro-choice legal scholars say. Ruth Bader Ginsburg called the ruling "heavy-handed judicial activism." Laurence Tribe wrote "behind its own verbal smokescreen, the substantive judgment on which it rests is nowhere to be found." Former Harry Blackmun clerk Edward Lazarus wrote "[A]s a matter of constitutional interpretation, even most liberal jurisprudes — if you administer truth serum — will tell you it is basically indefensible."
> ----------
> ...



Probably best to summarize articles instead of simply copying the whole thing.  I think you will into fewer COPYRIGHT problems that way.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 3, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> Specifically, what Obama did was order to Social Security Administration to take the list of people who were deemed so severely mentally ill that they are unfit to handle their own disability benefits and forward it to the FBI. The FBI was then supposed to incorporate that list in the background checks used to disqualify people from gun ownership.


Which lies -completely- outside federal law, and denies these people due process.
Trump was -absolutely- correct in reversing this.


----------



## Open Bolt (May 3, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> On what grounds?


We don't need grounds.  We can simply tell you no.

But the reason would be because of the left's history of using registration as a weapon to violate people's civil liberties.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> If you don't enjoy a right to privacy there's absolutely no reason why you can deny any such thing.


Sure there is.  See above.

And as also mentioned above, we don't even need a reason.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Why am I not surprised at you being a "Mens Rights" kinda guy.


The left's extremism was their doom.  They brought it on themselves.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Precedent has a tendency to become a problem real fast.
> Enjoy!


There is no problem.  There is just a bunch of leftist extremists done in by their own extremism.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> I love how secure you guys are in your "rights".


It's always nice when the good guys win.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Meanwhile 50 years worth of settled law (as attested to by just about every sitting SCOTUS justice during their hearings) is being dismantled right before our eyes.


Like I said, extremists done in by their own extremism.


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 4, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I'm guessing that you cannot point out any errors in any of his posts.


"Felons, and the dangerously mentally ill cannot buy, own or carry guns".


Open Bolt said:


> That is not an example of dangerous people being prevented from having guns.


Yes, it is.


Open Bolt said:


> That is an example of progressives violating people's civil liberties for no reason (no reason other than the fact that progressives actually enjoy violating people's civil liberties that is).


Right, nut jobs having guns?
What could go wrong?






Other nut jobs elect them to congress.


Open Bolt said:


> Not being able to balance a checkbook does not mean that a disabled person is a danger to themselves or others.


Not being able to balance a checkbook, wont get you Social Security disability benefits either.

December 4, 2015

WASHINGTON — Senate Republicans voted against barring suspected terrorists, felons and the mentally ill from getting guns on Thursday afternoon, parroting National Rifle Association arguments that doing so would strip some innocent people of their constitutional rights to gun access just a day after yet another massacre on U.S. soil.

They can carry a gun, but they can't vote.

September 18 2020
Just four years ago, Florida, Iowa, Kentucky, and Virginia all blocked people convicted of felonies from ever voting again — even after they had fully completed their sentences for prison, parole, or probation.

Today, every one of these states — most recently, Iowa — has allowed at least _some_ people who’ve finished their sentences to vote, potentially reenfranchising hundreds of thousands of Americans.

It hasn’t been an easy shift. In Florida, voters approved an amendment to their state constitution in 2018 that lets people who’ve completed their sentences vote again, excluding those convicted of murder or felony sex offenses. But the Republican-controlled state legislature passed a law requiring ex-felons to pay all outstanding court fees before they’re allowed to vote — blocking possibly hundreds of thousands of Floridians who can’t afford the fees from voting.


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 4, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Which lies -completely- outside federal law, and denies these people due process.


WTF?
You're a moron.

How is a court case NOT due process?
People have to appear before a US  court to claim Social Security Disability.



M14 Shooter said:


> Trump was -absolutely- correct in reversing this.


ONE of many instances, the orange retard was wrong.


----------



## Batcat (May 4, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Then let's get rid of ALL LAWS!  LOL.


I suggest enforcing the existing law against criminals with firearms and stop passing laws against the ownership of firearms by honest people. 

Of course that will not help the Democrats once they get their Marxist socialist workers paradise as in such paradises civilians are not allowed to own firearms. That way it is very hard to overthrow their Marxist masters once they tire of living in paradise.


----------



## Open Bolt (May 4, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> "Felons, and the dangerously mentally ill cannot buy, own or carry guns".


That is an occurrence of 2aguy being correct, not an occurrence of him being wrong.




Smokin' OP said:


> Yes, it is.


That is incorrect.  Being disabled and not being able to balance a checkbook does not mean that someone is a danger to themselves or others.

The left's abuse of the law to try to block harmless people from having guns is why we won't have things like background checks on all gun sales or centralized gun registration.




Smokin' OP said:


> How is a court case NOT due process?
> People have to appear before a US  court to claim Social Security Disability.


You do not have to appear before a US court to claim Social Security disability.

And if you did have to, that would not count as due process as far as determining that a person is a danger to themselves or others.




Smokin' OP said:


> ONE of many instances, the orange retard was wrong.


Protecting people's civil liberties is never wrong.


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 4, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> That is an occurrence of 2aguy being correct, not an occurrence of him being wrong.


WTF?




Open Bolt said:


> That is incorrect.  Being disabled and not being able to balance a checkbook does not mean that someone is a danger to themselves or others.


No, it doesn't. 

Not being able to balance a checkbook doesn't make you mentally ill, either.
Being mentally ill, makes people mentally ill.



Open Bolt said:


> The left's abuse of the law to try to block harmless people from having guns is why we won't have things like background checks on all gun sales or centralized gun registration.


Of course, going into a school or shopping mall and shooting up people is normal behavior and harmless.


Open Bolt said:


> You do not have to appear before a US court to claim Social Security disability.


99% do...............................if they're trying to  claim mental illness.


Open Bolt said:


> And if you did have to, that would not count as due process as far as determining that a person is a danger to themselves or others.


WTF?
YES, it does.
That's the entire premise of a court hearing.


Open Bolt said:


> Protecting people's civil liberties is never wrong.


----------



## 2aguy (May 4, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> "Felons, and the dangerously mentally ill cannot buy, own or carry guns".
> 
> Yes, it is.
> 
> ...




Moron, at one point Senator Ted Kennedy was on the terrorist watch list.......as well as other innocent people......putting people on a list isn't a conviction in a court of law......

Moron....

While the criteria for adding individuals to the list remains murky, one thing is for sure: it’s still a lot easier to get on the list than get off it. Even in clear cases of mistaken identity or clerical blundering, a name can linger in the system for years. 

Here are a few of the most high-profile flying foul-ups (some of which are directly tied to the no-fly list, while others are less clear).

A famous senator​Sen. Ted Kennedy told the Senate Judiciary Committee in 2004 that he had been stopped and interrogated on at least five occasions as he attempted to board flights at several different airports. A Bush administration official explained to the Washington Post that Kennedy had been held up because the name “T. Kennedy” had become a popular pseudonym among terror suspects. 

John Lewis’s long year​On the same day Kennedy revealed his flight troubles, civil rights icon and longtime Rep. John Lewis revealed he, too, had been snarled by the watchlist dragnet. According to his office, the Georgia Democrat had over the course of a year been held up 35 to 40 times. Despite reaching out to a number of federal agencies over that period, Lewis’ name had remained on a list.
------
*No-fly headaches aren’t just for international pop stars and federal lawmakers. In 2012, Jet Blue removed an 18-month-old child from a flight before takeoff. *

*The girl’s mother, speaking to a CNN affiliate, said she was informed by an airline employee, “Your daughter was flagged as no fly.”
----*
Caught up in the story​Two journalists, CNN’s own Drew Griffin and Stephen Hayes of the Weekly Standard, have also been tangled up in the messy system. Hayes learned he had been added to a terror database. Why? Hayes told NPR last year he doesn’t know for sure, but says a TSA agent told him trips to Turkey, including a one-way flight into Istanbul, probably did the trick.









						No-fly nightmares: The program's most embarrassing mistakes | CNN Politics
					

The twin debates over gun control and terrorism are converging at the airport.




					www.cnn.com
				




30,000 People Mistakenly Put on Terrorist Watch List​This is incredible:



> Nearly 30,000 airline passengers discovered in the past year that they were mistakenly placed on federal “terrorist” watch lists, a transportation security official said Tuesday.







__





						30,000 People Mistakenly Put on Terrorist Watch List - Schneier on Security
					






					www.schneier.com
				




*On May 6, 2009 yet another audit, this time from the Department of Justice’s Office of Inspector General (OIG), has documented the high error rate and dysfunction of the government’s central terrorist watchlist. In response the ACLU has called for Congressional oversight, and Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT) called the situation “unacceptable.” T*









						Audit Says FBI's Watchlist Riddled With Errors - Charity & Security Network
					

On May 6, 2009 yet another audit, this time from the Department of Justice's Office of Inspector General (OIG), has documented the high error rate and dysfunction of the government's central terrorist watchlist. In response the ACLU has called for Congressional oversight, and Sen. Patrick Leahy...




					charityandsecurity.org


----------



## Open Bolt (May 4, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> No, it doesn't.


Since being disabled and not able to balance their checkbook doesn't make them a danger to themselves or others, it was wrong of progressives to try to deprive them of guns, and it was right of Mr. Trump to ensure that they could still have guns.




Smokin' OP said:


> 99% do...............................if they're trying to  claim mental illness.


I doubt it.  Unless maybe if their disability claims are denied, and they are challenging the denial in court.




Smokin' OP said:


> YES, it does.
> That's the entire premise of a court hearing.


That is incorrect.  If someone was going to court to challenge their denial of a disability claim, the premise of the court hearing would be to determine if they are disabled.


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Moron, at one point Senator Ted Kennedy was on the terrorist watch list.......as well as other innocent people......putting people on a list isn't a conviction in a court of law......


Holy fuck, what a retard.

NO SHIT, Q NUT.

These people applied for a mental illness disability IN A COURT OF LAW.



2aguy said:


> Moron....
> 
> While the criteria for adding individuals to the list remains murky, one thing is for sure: it’s still a lot easier to get on the list than get off it. Even in clear cases of mistaken identity or clerical blundering, a name can linger in the system for years.
> 
> ...


Your brain dead.
 Being on the terrorist watch list has NOTHING to do with the action that Obama took.


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 4, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Since being disabled and not able to balance their checkbook doesn't make them a danger to themselves or others, it was wrong of progressives to try to deprive them of guns, and it was right of Mr. Trump to ensure that they could still have guns.


WTF, are you still hung up on "balancing a checkbook"?
That doesn't qualify people for Social Security disability.


Open Bolt said:


> I doubt it.  Unless maybe if their disability claims are denied, and they are challenging the denial in court.


Your typing out of your ass.
75 to 80% of ALL claims are denied, their initial claims.



Open Bolt said:


> That is incorrect.  If someone was going to court to challenge their denial of a disability claim, the premise of the court hearing would be to determine if they are disabled.


WTF?
The people have ALREADY been collecting disability, dumbass.
Their "due process" is the hearing.

Let me guess?
BOTH of you voted for Trump?


----------



## Open Bolt (May 4, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> These people applied for a mental illness disability IN A COURT OF LAW.


That is incorrect.  Being put on the terrorism watch list does not mean that someone has applied for disability.




Smokin' OP said:


> Being on the terrorist watch list has NOTHING to do with the action that Obama took.


You're the one who posted the article complaining about people on the terrorism watch list being allowed to have guns.




Smokin' OP said:


> WTF, are you still hung up on "balancing a checkbook"?
> That doesn't qualify people for Social Security disability.


It does however trigger Mr. Obama's attempt to deny their right to have guns.




Smokin' OP said:


> WTF?
> The people have ALREADY been collecting disability, dumbass.


That is incorrect.  People who go to court to challenge a disability denial are not already collecting disability.

Name-calling really doesn't make up for your lack of facts.




Smokin' OP said:


> Their "due process" is the hearing.


That is incorrect.  A hearing on disability benefits is not due process on a question of whether someone is a danger to themselves or others.




Smokin' OP said:


> Let me guess?
> BOTH of you voted for Trump?


Progressives like to violate people's civil liberties for fun.

Mr. Trump protects people from progressives.


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 4, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> That is incorrect.  Being put on the terrorism watch list does not mean that someone has applied for disability.


WTF are even talking about?


Open Bolt said:


> You're the one who posted the article complaining about people on the terrorism watch list being allowed to have guns.


You're FOS.


Open Bolt said:


> It does however trigger Obama's attempt to deny their right to have guns.


It triggered Trump and his cult.


Open Bolt said:


> That is incorrect.  People who go to court to challenge a disability denial are not already collecting disability.


WTF, moron.
Did you combine your meds this morning?

President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.

The rule, which was finalized in December, added people receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and people deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs to the national background check database.

Which means.....................they weren't challenging shit.


Open Bolt said:


> Name-calling really doesn't make up for your lack of facts.


SURE...........Whatever.


Open Bolt said:


> That is incorrect.  A hearing on disability benefits is not due process on a question of whether someone is a danger to themselves or others.


YES, it is.
So, a court hearing isn't a premise for sending someone to jail either?


Open Bolt said:


> Progressives like to violate people's civil liberties for fun.
> 
> Mr. Trump protects people from progressives.


Trump doesn't protect shit, especially his cult, Trump knows you're gullible, easy marks.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 4, 2022)

Batcat said:


> I suggest enforcing the existing law against criminals with firearms and stop passing laws against the ownership of firearms by honest people.



^^^^This part is a reasonable request.    



Batcat said:


> Of course that will not help the Democrats once they get their Marxist socialist workers paradise as in such paradises civilians are not allowed to own firearms. That way it is very hard to overthrow their Marxist masters once they tire of living in paradise.



^^^^^This part is where you roll off road and into the ditch.

Try dealing with this topic in a rational manner without imagining nefarious Marxist (or whatever your current mislabeled talking point is) conspiracies all around you.


----------



## bodecea (May 4, 2022)

Polishprince said:


> The 2nd Amendment is a worthy charity as well.
> 
> Besides, fighting cancer would be stepping on Brandon's toes.   The so-called President is supposed to be committed to a moon shot to end cancer.   Trump will stay out of his way, and fight the plague of gunophobia.


The 2nd Amendment as a charity?      Money to help wash the blood out?


----------



## Polishprince (May 4, 2022)

bodecea said:


> The 2nd Amendment as a charity?      Money to help wash the blood out?




FIghting the radical control freaks of the Brady Bunch and others, is important business.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 4, 2022)

bodecea said:


> The 2nd Amendment as a charity?      Money to help wash the blood out?



Nah, it's a charity to help Wayne LaPierre line his pockets at the expense of those who are easily manipulated into fear of scary shadows that don't actually exist.

Think of NRA dues as a kind of tax on the gullible.


----------



## 2aguy (May 4, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Nah, it's a charity to help Wayne LaPierre line his pockets at the expense of those who are easily manipulated into fear of scary shadows that don't actually exist.
> 
> Think of NRA dues as a kind of tax on the gullible.




Oh....so there we go....you are a fascist, pretending to be reasonable...thank you for outing yourself.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 4, 2022)

Polishprince said:


> FIghting the radical control freaks of the Brady Bunch and others, is important business.



"Brady Bunch".  That's funny.  Well, except for the serious brain damage that completely decimated Brady's life.  I bet he had a good time with brain damage and being confined to a wheel chair for the remainder of his life.

GOod times, good times.

(Do gun advocates have even a smidgen of decency in their personalities?)


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Oh....so there we go....you are a fascist, pretending to be reasonable...thank you for outing yourself.



Oh...so you don't know what "facism" means.  Thank you for outing yourself.


----------



## Captain Caveman (May 4, 2022)

basquebromance said:


> the 2nd Amendment is non-negotiable.
> Don’t let them Europe your America
> 
> 
> ...


He's appealing to the cheap vote, and the gullible are lapping him up.


----------



## 2aguy (May 4, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> "Brady Bunch".  That's funny.  Well, except for the serious brain damage that completely decimated Brady's life.  I bet he had a good time with brain damage and being confined to a wheel chair for the remainder of his life.
> 
> GOod times, good times.
> 
> (Do gun advocates have even a smidgen of decency in their personalities?)




Says an anti-gun  fascist like you,  who likely jumps for joy when a mass public shooting happens....


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Says an anti-gun  fascist like you,  who likely jumps for joy when a mass public shooting happens....



Hey, sick fuk...I do nothing of the sort.  But I actually DO CARE when kids get gunned down in schools.  All you guys ever do is try to find ANYTHING To talk about than the gun.  Oh yeah and your fake ass "thotz n' prayerz".

AT least I CARE.  What about YOU?


----------



## 2aguy (May 4, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Hey, sick fuk...I do nothing of the sort.  But I actually DO CARE when kids get gunned down in schools.  All you guys ever do is try to find ANYTHING To talk about than the gun.  Oh yeah and your fake ass "thotz n' prayerz".
> 
> AT least I CARE.  What about YOU?




The gun didn't drive the car, you dumb ass.....and again, I appreciate that you outed yourself as a fascist for us....saves a lot of time...


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> The gun didn't drive the car, you dumb ass.....and again, I appreciate that you outed yourself as a fascist for us....saves a lot of time...



Learn what words mean, dimbulb.


----------



## Batcat (May 4, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> ^^^^This part is a reasonable request.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Youo don’t like me to use the term “Marxist.” Recently I have noticed Democrats are now for censorship. If you had the power would you censor me for promoting “disinformation.“ 









						Democrats open door to Marxist totalitarian rule through attacks on police, history and institutions
					

Legislatively dancing with the Democrats is akin to fiddling while Rome burns.




					www.washingtontimes.com
				












						Equity is Dangerous – Marxism is Not American - AMAC - The Association of Mature American Citizens
					

Fundamentally, “equality” and “equity” are different. The first is an American constitutional value, found in the 5th and 14th Amendments, de




					amac.us
				












						Mark Levin's 'American Marxism' Sounds Alarm Bell
					

Mark Levin's "American Marxism" (2021, Threshold Books, New York) is an eye opener that sounds an alarm bell.




					www.newsmax.com


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 4, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Youo don’t like me to use the term “Marxist.” Recently I have noticed Democrats are now for censorship. If you had the power would you censor me for promoting “disinformation.“
> 
> 
> 
> ...



IT would be really cool if you knew what ANY of the words you guys throw around mean.


----------



## Open Bolt (May 4, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> WTF are even talking about?


I was pointing out that you were wrong to say that being on the terrorism watch list meant that a person had applied for disability.




Smokin' OP said:


> You're FOS.


That is incorrect.  In message #103 you posted an article that talked about the terrorism watch list.

From your post:
_"December 4, 2015
WASHINGTON — Senate Republicans voted against barring *suspected terrorists*, felons and the mentally ill from getting guns on Thursday afternoon, parroting National Rifle Association arguments that doing so would strip some innocent people of their constitutional rights to gun access just a day after yet another massacre on U.S. soil."_




Smokin' OP said:


> It triggered Trump and his cult.


You dodged the point.  Obama's plot targeted people who can't manage their own finances.

But note that Mr. Trump and his followers are right to oppose progressives when progressives violate people's civil liberties.




Smokin' OP said:


> WTF, moron.
> Did you combine your meds this morning?


Name-calling is no substitute for a sound argument.




Smokin' OP said:


> President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.
> The rule, which was finalized in December, added people receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and people deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs to the national background check database.
> Which means.....................they weren't challenging shit.


If they had not been in court to challenge a disability denial, then you were wrong to say that they had been.

Not that such a hearing would have been due process for depriving them of guns even if it had taken place.




Smokin' OP said:


> YES, it is.


No it isn't.  All a hearing on disability benefits does is determine disability.  It makes no determination as to whether someone is a danger to themselves or others.




Smokin' OP said:


> So, a court hearing isn't a premise for sending someone to jail either?


It depends on the hearing.  A challenge of a disability denial certainly isn't a premise for sending anyone to jail.




Smokin' OP said:


> Trump doesn't protect shit, especially his cult, Trump knows you're gullible, easy marks.


That is incorrect.  Mr. Trump prevents progressives from harming us.


----------



## Open Bolt (May 4, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> "Brady Bunch".  That's funny.  Well, except for the serious brain damage that completely decimated Brady's life.  I bet he had a good time with brain damage and being confined to a wheel chair for the remainder of his life.
> GOod times, good times.
> (Do gun advocates have even a smidgen of decency in their personalities?)


Spare us the progressive phony outrage.  He deserves it for trying to violate our civil liberties.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 4, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Spare us the progressive phony outrage.  He deserves it for trying to violate our civil liberties.



That's pretty sick and fucked up.


----------



## Open Bolt (May 4, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> That's pretty sick and fucked up.


Again, spare us the progressive phony outrage.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 4, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Again, spare us the progressive phony outrage.



It's a good sign that even YOU know what you said was super-sick in that you have to HOPE my post was "phony".


----------



## Open Bolt (May 4, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> It's a good sign that even YOU know what you said was super-sick in that you have to HOPE my post was "phony".


What I said is perfectly fine.  That Brady scumbag deserved worse than he got.

I don't have to hope anything at all.  I know that progressive "outrage" is phony.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 4, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> What I said is perfectly fine.  That Brady scumbag deserved worse than he got.



You DO realize Brady wasn't shot for his position on guns.  In fact I believe it was the shooting which caused him and his family to form the Brady foundation.

As such you either really ignorant of US history or you are completely messed up.



Open Bolt said:


> I don't have to hope anything at all.  I know that progressive "outrage" is phony.



The fact that YOU are not a decent person does not make EVERYONE the same.


----------



## Open Bolt (May 4, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> The fact that YOU are not a decent person does not make EVERYONE the same.


When I say "spare me the phony outrage" I don't mean "spout even more phony outrage".


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 4, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> When I say "spare me the phony outrage" I don't mean "spout even more phony outrage".



You don't even know who Brady was do you?  You sick fuck.


----------



## Open Bolt (May 4, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> You don't even know who Brady was do you?


Of course I do.  He was the bystander who was maimed when someone shot Ronald Reagan in the head with a little mouse gun.

Nice Uzi carried by the Secret Service guy.  That's the sort of self defense gun that we should all be allowed to carry in a briefcase.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> You sick fuck.


Do you have a reading comprehension problem?


----------



## Open Bolt (May 4, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Nice Uzi carried by the Secret Service guy.  That's the sort of self defense gun that we should all be allowed to carry in a briefcase.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 4, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Of course I do.



Sure you do.



Open Bolt said:


> He was the bystander who was maimed when someone shot Ronald Reagan in the head with a little mouse gun.



He was REAGAN'S PRESS SECRETARY YOU DUMBASS.

Dumb and mean.  What a great combo.


----------



## Open Bolt (May 4, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Dumb and mean.  What a great combo.


The only people here who are dumb are progressives.

And yes, progressives are indeed both.  What a combo.


----------



## Clipper (May 4, 2022)

Polishprince said:


> Don Jr. is a great guy, very much unlike Sleepy Joe's heir.
> 
> I'd love to see the two face off in the 2028 election.   If the D's have the courage of their convictions and nominate Hunter Biden, the Republicans should respond by nominate the younger Trumpster.


Is there a minimum ammount the sucker's, er I mean donors to the cause have to pledge?


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 4, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> The only people here who are dumb are progressives.
> 
> And yes, progressives are indeed both.  What a combo.



Says the guy who didn't even know who James Brady was.  What a buffoon you are.  Mean and dumb.


----------



## Open Bolt (May 4, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Says the guy who didn't even know who James Brady was.


Now you are just lying.  I suppose lies are all that a progressive ever has.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> What a buffoon you are.  Mean and dumb.


Progressives rely on childish name-calling because they cannot defend their demented ideology using facts or logic.


----------



## Batcat (May 4, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> IT would be really cool if you knew what ANY of the words you guys throw around mean.


Perhaps we do and It is you who doesn’t know the meaning of the words. Perhaps we all know and you don’t want me and others to know because Marxist socialism has a terrible reputation but the Democrats seriously believe they can do it right this time.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (May 4, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> These four words, "shall not be infringed" is an absurdity.
> 
> _A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear __Arms__, shall not be infringed._
> 
> ...


Gun control has one purpose: to make gun ownership impossible.

The government can't control us as long as we're armed.  Disarming us is the goal.


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 5, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I was pointing out that you were wrong to say that being on the terrorism watch list meant that a person had applied for disability.


The terrorism watch list has NOTHING to do with it.


Open Bolt said:


> That is incorrect.  In message #103 you posted an article that talked about the terrorism watch list.
> 
> From your post:
> _"December 4, 2015
> WASHINGTON — Senate Republicans voted against barring *suspected terrorists*, felons and the mentally ill from getting guns on Thursday afternoon, parroting National Rifle Association arguments that doing so would strip some innocent people of their constitutional rights to gun access just a day after yet another massacre on U.S. soil."_


_Still NOTHING to do with the terrorism watch list._



Open Bolt said:


> You dodged the point.  Obama's plot targeted people who can't manage their own finances.


NO, he didn't moron.


Open Bolt said:


> But note that Mr. Trump and his followers are right to oppose progressives when progressives violate people's civil liberties.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Holy fuck, the people were ALREADY cashing SS checks, WTF is wrong with you?


Open Bolt said:


> Not that such a hearing would have been due process for depriving them of guns even if it had taken place.
> 
> 
> 
> No it isn't.  All a hearing on disability benefits does is determine disability.  It makes no determination as to whether someone is a danger to themselves or others.


Your an idiot.
That's the entire fucking premise, idiot.



Open Bolt said:


> It depends on the hearing.  A challenge of a disability denial certainly isn't a premise for sending anyone to jail.


I'm done, with you........................TROLL.
A damned stupid one at that.


Open Bolt said:


> That is incorrect.  Mr. Trump prevents progressives from harming us.


----------



## Open Bolt (May 5, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> The terrorism watch list has NOTHING to do with it.


That is incorrect.  Your article's reference to suspected terrorists was talking about people on the terrorism watch list.




Smokin' OP said:


> _Still NOTHING to do with the terrorism watch list._


That is incorrect.  Your article's reference to suspected terrorists was talking about people on the terrorism watch list.




Smokin' OP said:


> NO, he didn't


Yes he did.




Smokin' OP said:


> moron.


Your name-calling is a poor substitute for an intelligent argument.




Smokin' OP said:


> Holy fuck, the people were ALREADY cashing SS checks, WTF is wrong with you?


What is wrong with _you_?  You are the one who said they were going to court.  I was just addressing your post.




Smokin' OP said:


> Your an idiot.
> That's the entire fucking premise, idiot.


Your name-calling is a poor substitute for an intelligent argument.

And no.  The premise of the hearing when someone is challenging a disability denial is not whether they are a danger to themselves or others.




Smokin' OP said:


> I'm done, with you........................TROLL.
> A damned stupid one at that.


Your name-calling is a poor substitute for an intelligent argument.

I hope you are serious about being done with me.  I prefer to talking to people who provide me with intelligent responses.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 5, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Perhaps we do and It is you who doesn’t know the meaning of the words. Perhaps we all know and you don’t want me and others to know because Marxist socialism has a terrible reputation but the Democrats seriously believe they can do it right this time.



Yeah.  Sure.  If that makes you feel better.

Or you could check with a dictionary (assuming you know how to find one).


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (May 5, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> IT would be really cool if you knew what ANY of the words you guys throw around mean.


It would be cool if you guys would stop lying about the Democrats pushing a commie agenda.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 5, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> It would be cool if you guys would stop lying about the Democrats pushing a commie agenda.



LOL. 

If you weren't paying attention it has been the GOP that has recently fallen in love with a former KGB Officer who is hellbent on re-establishing the USSR's empire.  Just sayin'.

And it was a Republican President who saluted a communist general in North Korea.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (May 5, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> LOL.
> 
> If you weren't paying attention it has been the GOP that has recently fallen in love with a former KGB Officer who is hellbent on re-establishing the USSR's empire.  Just sayin'.
> 
> And it was a Republican President who saluted a communist general in North Korea.


Still lying?  The general saluted first.  Trump merely returned the salute.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 5, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Still lying?  The general saluted first.  Trump merely returned the salute.



LOVE IT!  That's the best justification I've heard in a long time!  Good one!


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (May 5, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> LOVE IT!  That's the best justification I've heard in a long time!  Good one!


Obviously, you were never in the service.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 5, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Obviously, you were never in the service.



You're right.  I never realized that you saluted enemy generals.  Good to know.

And to be fair Donald Trump was also never in the service.  Bone spurs dontcha know.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (May 5, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> You're right.  I never realized that you saluted enemy generals.  Good to know.
> 
> And to be fair Donald Trump was also never in the service.  Bone spurs dontcha know.


You return a salute, no matter who it is and you salute foreign generals.  He isn't a enemy general.  We aren't at war with North Korea.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 5, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> You return a salute, no matter who it is and you salute foreign generals.  He isn't a enemy general.  We aren't at war with North Korea.
> 
> View attachment 640971View attachment 640971



Guess I'll take your word for it.  That the President of the United States is required to salute the general of a country that still considers itself at war with America and hopes to see us all dead.

I didn't realize that was what American Presidents were required to do.  Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (May 5, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Guess I'll take your word for it.  That the President of the United States is required to salute the general of a country that still considers itself at war with America and hopes to see us all dead.
> 
> I didn't realize that was what American Presidents were required to do.  Thanks for the heads up.


Required?  No.  A good idea when you're trying to engage in diplomacy?  Yeah.

At least he didn't bow, like Obama...lol


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 6, 2022)

Obama never sent US troops to Saudi, to guard THEIR oil, Trump did.

Obama's first foreign trip as president................Canada.
Trump's first foreign trip as president..................Saudi.

So, republicans whine about Obama's "bow"?
While ignoring Trump, of course.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 6, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> View attachment 641153
> 
> So, republicans whine about Obama's "bow"?
> While ignoring Trump, of course.


Show the video.
Put it in context.
Because when you do, my bet is you'll see Trump lowered his head so the Saudi could put the bedal around his neck.
But you won't.
Because your hatred of Trump means more to you than your intellectual honesty.


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 6, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Show the video.
> Put it in context.





M14 Shooter said:


> Because when you do, my bet is you'll see Trump lowered his head so the Saudi could put the bedal around his neck.
> But you won't.


I did he seems to curtsy for him too.


M14 Shooter said:


> Because your hatred of Trump means more to you than your intellectual honesty.


Your hatred of Obama and democrats means more to you, than your "intellectual honesty".

If Saudi is a US ally, what was the big deal of Obama bowing to the Saudi king?
Trump and RWNJ's had an issue.

But ignored, Trump's first foreign trip was to Saudi.
Sent/diverted US troops to protect Saudi oil.
Defended Saudi.
“King Salman and Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman vigorously deny any knowledge of the planning or execution of the murder of Mr. Khashoggi,” the White House said. “Our intelligence agencies continue to assess all information, but it could very well be that the crown prince had knowledge of this tragic event — maybe he did and maybe he didn’t!” Trump said.

And sold them properties.
“I love the Saudis,” Trump said when announcing his presidential run at Trump Tower in 2015. “Many are in this building.”
Trump booked hotel rooms and meeting spaces to them, sold an entire floor in one of his buildings to them and, in desperate moments in his career, gotten a billionaire from the country to buy his yacht and New York’s Plaza Hotel overlooking Central Park.

When Obama bowed to the king, they became the "enemy".
But Trump receiving a medal from them is ignored.


----------



## 2aguy (May 6, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> I did he seems to curtsy for him too.
> 
> Your hatred of Obama and democrats means more to you, than your "intellectual honesty".
> 
> ...




You really are a lame ass....obama almost touched his nose to the shoe of these guys and every other actual monster around the world, and you want to play games with that?


----------



## 2aguy (May 6, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> I did he seems to curtsy for him too.
> 
> Your hatred of Obama and democrats means more to you, than your "intellectual honesty".
> 
> ...




Who cares about that muslim brotherhood reporter?    He played stupid games with the government of Saudi Arabia, and payed a stupid price....meanwhile.....obama, biden and the rest of the democrats have their heads stuck so far up the asses of the communist chinese, they are looking at the back of their teeth........you moron.


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 6, 2022)

2aguy said:


> You really are a lame ass....obama almost touched his nose to the shoe of these guys and every other actual monster around the world, and you want to play games with that?


Sure dumbass, Q NUT.






The orange traitor embraced every dictator around the world.


----------



## 2aguy (May 6, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> Sure dumbass, Q NUT.
> 
> View attachment 641268
> 
> The orange traitor embraced every dictator around the world.




No...shithead, he dealt with them, and beat them at their game, obama bent over and let them have their way with them, and the biden's are cashing all of their checks, you dumb ass....


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 6, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Who cares about that muslim brotherhood reporter?    He played stupid games with the government of Saudi Arabia, and payed a stupid price....meanwhile.....obama, biden and the rest of the democrats have their heads stuck so far up the asses of the communist chinese, they are looking at the back of their teeth........you moron.


 
Then Q NUTS love the traitor who wanted the US to be just like them.

March 4 2018
U.S. President Donald Trump praised Chinese President Xi Jinping Saturday after the ruling Communist party announced it was eliminating the two-term limit for the presidency, paving the way for Xi to serve indefinitely.

“He’s now president for life, president for life. And he’s great,” Trump said, according to audio of excerpts of Trump’s remarks at a closed-door fundraiser in Florida. 
“And look, he was able to do that. I think it’s great. Maybe we’ll have to give that a shot someday,” Trump said to cheers and applause from supporters.

Trump praises a Chinese communist.
Trump's cult praises communism.


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 6, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No...shithead, he dealt with them, and beat them at their game,


Really Q NUT?
The orange traitor met "Rocket man on 

October 1 2018
Trump praised Kim at a campaign rally on Saturday, saying that he and the North Korean leader “fell in love.”

“I was really being tough and so was he,” Trump said. “And we would go back and forth. And then we fell in love. No really. He wrote me beautiful letters.”

“They were great letters. And then we fell in love,” he continued. 

June 30 2019
SEOUL, South Korea — President Trump on Sunday became the first sitting American commander in chief to set foot in North Korea as he met Kim Jong-un, the country’s leader, at the heavily fortified Demilitarized Zone, and the two agreed to restart negotiations on a long-elusive nuclear agreement.

April 16 2022
SEOUL, South Korea (AP) — North Korea has test-fired a new type of tactical guided weapon designed to boost its nuclear fighting capability, state media reported Sunday, a day before its chief rivals the United States and South Korea begin annual drills that the North views as an invasion rehearsal.

Yeah, the great "negotiator" did so well.


2aguy said:


> obama bent over and let them have their way with them, and the biden's are cashing all of their checks, you dumb ass....


Trump praised Kim at a campaign rally on Saturday, saying that he and the North Korean leader “fell in love.”

“I was really being tough and so was he,” Trump said. “And we would go back and forth. And then we fell in love. No really. He wrote me beautiful letters.”

“They were great letters. And then we fell in love,” he continued. 

Sounds like the orange traitor was doing the bending, Q NUT.


----------



## BS Filter (May 6, 2022)

Just read some idiot tried to rob a convenience store in Texas and got shot to hell by every customer.  Guy must have been from Chicago.


----------



## 2aguy (May 6, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> Then Q NUTS love the traitor who wanted the US to be just like them.
> 
> March 4 2018
> U.S. President Donald Trump praised Chinese President Xi Jinping Saturday after the ruling Communist party announced it was eliminating the two-term limit for the presidency, paving the way for Xi to serve indefinitely.
> ...




Moron.......Trump blocked China, the biden's cashed their checks...you doofus.......


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 7, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Moron.......Trump blocked China, the biden's cashed their checks...you doofus.......


Sure he did, moron, Q NUT.
It was the fat, orange, grifter cashing Chinese checks.

 The US Commerce Department imposed a *seven*-year ban on ZTE after it was found to have violated US sanctions by selling equipment to Iran and North Korea. At the time of the ban, the Commerce Department said that ZTE was engaged in an extensive conspiracy, approved by its then CEO to evade US laws.

President Xi of China, and I, are working together to give massive Chinese phone company, ZTE, a way to get back into business, fast. Too many jobs in China lost. Commerce Department has been instructed to get it done!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 13, 2018

Too many jobs in CHINA lost?

Trump did not mention in that tweet or its follow-ups that on Thursday, the developer of a theme park resort outside of Jakarta had signed a deal to receive as much as $500 million in Chinese government loans, as well as another $500 million from Chinese banks, according to Agence France-Presse. 
Trump’s family business, the Trump Organization, has a deal to license the Trump name to the resort, which includes a golf course and hotels.

Trump drops ZTE sanctions.................Get's  $1 billion in Chinese checks.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 7, 2022)

basquebromance said:


> the 2nd Amendment is non-negotiable.
> Don’t let them Europe your America
> 
> 
> ...


They should start by educating their dad.

The Trump boys are avid hunters and gun collectors.  They hunt with one of the same outfitters I've been friends with in Africa for over 20 years.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 7, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Moron.......Trump blocked China, the biden's cashed their checks...you doofus.......


Apparently Trump's trade war with China is proof they own him.

Never expect logic from a democrat.


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 7, 2022)

Trump "trade war" is a joke, just like everything he touches, turns to shit.

Trump bailed out corporate farmers with $48 billion of taxpayer $$$, because of his tariffs he claimed, like his vanity wall, China was paying for.

The great "dealmaker" signed a trade deal with China, increasing trade with them by $200 billion.
If someone was "eating your lunch" as Trump claimed China was doing, why would you increase trade with a person ripping you off?

The trade deal turned to shit quickly.

February 8 2022
Donald Trump, the American president from 2017 to 2021, said he knew more about trade than most economists and foreign-policy experts. “Trade wars are good, and easy to win,” Trump famously declared in 2018. He described himself as a “Tariff Man” and proved it by imposing new tariffs on hundreds of billions of dollars of U.S. imports, to be paid by the American firms buying those goods.

New trade data for 2021 shows that China came nowhere near fulfilling its commitments in the 2020 phase one deal, with U.S. exporters ending up worse off than they would have been had Trump done nothing on trade. 

During the first two years covered by the trade deal—2020 and 2021—China purchased just 57% of what it had committed to in the trade deal. China said it would buy at least $502 billion of U.S. goods during those two years. Yet total purchases added up to just $289 billion.


----------



## Penelope (May 7, 2022)

Polishprince said:


> Don Jr. is a great guy, very much unlike Sleepy Joe's heir.
> 
> I'd love to see the two face off in the 2028 election.   If the D's have the courage of their convictions and nominate Hunter Biden, the Republicans should respond by nominate the younger Trumpster.


Don Jr is a shitface man.


----------



## Penelope (May 7, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> Trump "trade war" is a joke, just like everything he touches, turns to shit.
> 
> Trump bailed out corporate farmers with $48 billion of taxpayer $$$, because of his tariffs he claimed, like his vanity wall, China was paying for.
> 
> ...


He never won a trade war. He was in to china for russia for lots of money.


----------



## frigidweirdo (May 7, 2022)

basquebromance said:


> the 2nd Amendment is non-negotiable.
> Don’t let them Europe your America
> 
> 
> ...



Trump will say whatever you want to hear


----------



## Penelope (May 7, 2022)

frigidweirdo said:


> Trump will say whatever you want to hear


Guns and pro life.


----------



## frigidweirdo (May 7, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Guns and pro life.



He'd tell you that you can suck kittens's balls if that's what you want to hear.


----------



## 2aguy (May 7, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> Trump "trade war" is a joke, just like everything he touches, turns to shit.
> 
> Trump bailed out corporate farmers with $48 billion of taxpayer $$$, because of his tariffs he claimed, like his vanity wall, China was paying for.
> 
> ...





The biden's are completely owned by the communist chinese party.........they made millions off of their illegal deals, and hunter, the sad son of that monster even rode on Air Force 2 to complete the deal with the communists......you moron.


----------



## 2aguy (May 7, 2022)

frigidweirdo said:


> He'd tell you that you can suck kittens's balls if that's what you want to hear.




Guns in the hands of normal people are pro life...you doofus.


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> The biden's are completely owned by the communist chinese party.........they made millions off of their illegal deals, and hunter, the sad son of that monster even rode on Air Force 2 to complete the deal with the communists......you moron.


You're FOS, you gullible Q NUT...................as usual.
Show us where the Biden's own 38 Chinese patents?

That would be the Trump crime family.

June 8 2017
SHANGHAI — China has granted  approval for 38 new Trump trademarks, paving the way for President Donald Trump and his family to develop a host of branded businesses from hotels to insurance to bodyguard and escort services, public documents show.

If President Trump receives any special treatment in securing trademark rights, it would violate the U.S. Constitution, which bans public servants from accepting anything of value from foreign governments unless approved by Congress, ethics lawyers from across the political spectrum say. Concerns about potential conflicts of interest are particularly sharp in China, where the courts and bureaucracy are designed to reflect the will of the ruling Communist Party.

Trump doesn't care, he's owned by the communist Chinese.

Congratulations to President Xi and the Chinese people on the 70th Anniversary of the People’s Republic of China!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 1, 2019


----------



## Dante Reawakened (May 8, 2022)

basquebromance said:


> the 2nd Amendment is non-negotiable.
> Don’t let them Europe your America
> 
> 
> ...


too funny A task force LOL


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 8, 2022)

Dante Reawakened said:


> too funny A task force LOL


It is.

Of course, grifter Jr. is asking for donations.

“This issue is personal to me because it’s about who I am and what I love – from shooting to hunting, to simply having the ability to protect my family,” said Don Jr. “But it’s also much bigger than that because it’s about preserving the one right that makes all of our other rights possible.
The Second Amendment ensures that we can keep the ones we love safe from harm, but it also protects us from the would-be tyrants using the power of government to take away our liberties.
As a child, I saw first-hand the effects of communism when I’d visit my grandparents in the former Czechoslovakia, and I can tell you – our freedoms are worth fighting for.”

To join the fight, sign up for the 2ATF email list or *consider making a donation today*.


----------



## 2aguy (May 8, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> You're FOS, you gullible Q NUT...................as usual.
> Show us where the Biden's own 38 Chinese patents?
> 
> That would be the Trump crime family.
> ...



Moron…..biden and his drug addicted son sold every public office he has ever held…..decades and decades of corruption and many of the countries are our enemies….

But enough of this…..get back on topic you dumb ass


----------



## Dante Reawakened (May 8, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> It is.
> 
> Of course, grifter Jr. is asking for donations.
> 
> ...


The Trump Family Crime Syndicate needs to be taken down


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 9, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Moron…..biden and his drug addicted son sold every public office he has ever held…..decades and decades of corruption and many of the countries are our enemies….
> 
> But enough of this…..get back on topic you dumb ass


Sure Q NUT,  just can't prove it.
Like everything else, you regurgitate from FOX and AM radio.


----------



## Rye Catcher (May 9, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Moron…..biden and his drug addicted son sold every public office he has ever held…..decades and decades of corruption and many of the countries are our enemies….
> 
> But enough of this…..get back on topic you dumb ass


*You're a biddable fool and a damn liar posting BIG LIES and Conspiracy Fictional Stories about Biden and his son, as well as anyone who posts comments that upset you. *


----------



## 2aguy (May 9, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> *You're a biddable fool and a damn liar posting BIG LIES and Conspiracy Fictional Stories about Biden and his son, as well as anyone who posts comments that upset you. *




This.....


----------

