# BARR told Trump to his face, "you're going to lose, you're humiliating yourself: pettiness, acrimony, punching down, chaos--we're tired of this shit"



## surada

Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
					

Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...




					www.rawstory.com
				




WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...

"You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "


Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book

Sarah K. Burris
July 21, 2021

Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.

"I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."

Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.

"I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "

“There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020

Continued


----------



## Meathead

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> 
> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> Sarah K. Burris
> July 21, 2021
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.
> 
> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.
> 
> "I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> “There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020
> 
> Continued


Surada posting raw story. What could possibly be wrong?


----------



## deannalw

Even if it's true, I can raise no give a fucks.


----------



## surada

Meathead said:


> Surada posting raw story. What could possibly be wrong?



How about Fox?









						President Trump: ‘The only way you’re going to stop drugs  is death penalty for drug dealers’
					

Fox Bulletin readers are discussing: "They opened up the border, day one, they opened up the border," he said, adding that "through open borders come drugs and the drugs have never been as bad as they are now."




					foxbulletin.com


----------



## marvin martian

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> 
> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> Sarah K. Burris
> July 21, 2021
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.
> 
> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.
> 
> "I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> “There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020
> 
> Continued




"I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, *according to the reporters*. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."

LOL!  Another fantasy "conversation" you got duped into believing by someone selling a book.  Will you EVER learn???  Hahahaha


----------



## Mac1958

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> 
> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> Sarah K. Burris
> July 21, 2021
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.
> 
> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.
> 
> "I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> “There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020
> 
> Continued


His mistake is that Trump can't be humiliated or embarrassed.  He lacks the self-awareness or shame.  He's essentially like a shark, constantly and endlessly on the hunt for food -- the "food" being approval.


----------



## Manonthestreet

And yet he increased his vote percentage to a degree that no President running for reelection who has done same has ever lost......makes ya go hhhhhmmmm


----------



## surada

rightwinger 

They all hate Trump.









						Bill Barr Reportedly Told Trump He Was Going to Lose Because His COVID Briefings Were “Humiliating”
					

Bill Barr Reportedly Told Trump He Was Going to Lose Because His COVID Briefings Were “Humiliating”




					hillreporter.com


----------



## surada

Mac1958 said:


> His mistake is that Trump can't be humiliated or embarrassed.  He lacks the self-awareness or shame.



All the men around Trump were better men than he is.  You know they hated being stuck with him.. Trump wasted his presidency.


----------



## easyt65

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that.



Except no one, to include Barry, was ever held accountable for participating in Barry's failed coup attempt...

...or how neither Mueller or Comey were held accountable for illegally spying on Americans for DECADES, as exposed by the FISA Court investigation report

...or how none of the Democrats (Schiff & Swalwell) who were proven to have criminally attempted to create fake evidence against Trump in Pelosi's 2 failed Impeachments were held accountable...

...Or how it was proven that Barry & co. collaborated with the Russian Intel Service (RIS) to obtain proven Russian-authored propaganda, delivered by a foreign ex-spy working for Barry's FBI and the Russians, to use as their foundation for Barry's failed coup attempt...

..or how the tax payer-funded Durham report is being withheld from the American people....

Actually there is a great deal you could have added - you just chose NOT to.


----------



## easyt65

surada said:


> rightwinger
> 
> They all hate Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bill Barr Reportedly Told Trump He Was Going to Lose Because His COVID Briefings Were “Humiliating”
> 
> 
> Bill Barr Reportedly Told Trump He Was Going to Lose Because His COVID Briefings Were “Humiliating”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hillreporter.com


There you go PROJECTING again...


----------



## pknopp

_
"You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' " _

 Quite a few said this. It was noted here quite often.


----------



## Meathead

surada said:


> How about Fox?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> President Trump: ‘The only way you’re going to stop drugs  is death penalty for drug dealers’
> 
> 
> Fox Bulletin readers are discussing: "They opened up the border, day one, they opened up the border," he said, adding that "through open borders come drugs and the drugs have never been as bad as they are now."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foxbulletin.com


Surada was enough for me to know it's nonsense.


----------



## surada

Meathead said:


> Surada was enough for me to know it's nonsense.



Honey, I don't write for Fox News.


----------



## surada

pknopp said:


> _
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' " _
> 
> Quite a few said this. It was noted here quite often.



Trump is lazy, arrogant and ignorant.. a ham-fisted bully. He wasted his presidency.


----------



## Moonglow

deannalw said:


> Even if it's true, I can raise no give a fucks.


Me neither since that is what he has always done and was then gone..


----------



## Meathead

surada said:


> Honey, I don't write for Fox News.


You don't have the brains to write for Raw Story darling, let alone Fox.


----------



## easyt65

surada said:


> Honey, I don't write for Fox News.


That's because they wouldn't take your TDS-suffering, irrational hate-driven, propaganda-pushing, talking point-parroting, highly emotionally unbalanced, scream-at-the-sky drama-queen ass...


----------



## marvin martian

surada said:


> Honey, I don't write for Fox News.



Yet somehow you thought posting a link to their story, where they document the same illegitimate source as the first fake story you posted, would convince anyone you're NOT a complete dupe.  LOL!


----------



## Mac-7

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> 
> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> Sarah K. Burris
> July 21, 2021
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.
> 
> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.
> 
> "I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> “There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020
> 
> Continued


Do libs never tire of repeating fake news?

This is no credible source for this lie


----------



## Moonglow

Mac-7 said:


> Do libs never tire of repeating fake news?
> 
> This is no credible source for this lie


It's in the Trump theory of fraudulent elections section.


----------



## surada

marvin martian said:


> Yet somehow you thought posting a link to their story, where they document the same illegitimate source as the first fake story you posted, would convince anyone you're NOT a complete dupe.  LOL!



I don't blame you for denying it.. Trump is shamefully stupid.


----------



## easyt65

surada said:


> Trump is lazy, arrogant and ignorant.. a ham-fisted bully. He wasted his presidency.


Lowest Black unemployment rate in US history
Lowest Latino unemployment rate in US history
Lowest Asian unemployment rate in US history
Lowest Women unemployment rate in US history
Lowest Young Adult unemployment rate in US history
Most# of Americans working at 1 time
Higher wages, raises, bonuses, and greater opportunities to succeed
Brought back manufacturing jobs after Barry gave up & told Americans NOT having those jobs was the 'new norm'
Helped millions of Americans get off welfare, unemployment, food stamps
Dramatic rise in minority-owned small businesses under Trump
Ended dependency on social programs / Dems' policies of economic slavery 
Renegotiated better trade deals for Americans 
etc......

As opposed to dementia-ravaged proven , CCP/Russian-bought, Barry coup co-conspiring Biden who has not done anything beneficial for Americans as President yet....


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

surada said:


> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "



This was predictable months before the election, but Trump was too much of an arrogant twat to clean up his act and his supporters who dismiss his behavior as a factor in his loss are a bunch of gullible pea brains.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

deannalw said:


> Even if it's true, I can raise no give a fucks.



Neither did Trump, which is why he lost.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

Manonthestreet said:


> And yet he increased his vote percentage to a degree that no President running for reelection who has done same has ever lost......makes ya go hhhhhmmmm



Makes you go hmmm if you're a conspiracy prone imbecile.  His behavior also drove the opposition to increase their vote percentage to an even higher degree that allowed him to be beaten.  Not hard for anyone with more than a second grade education to understand.


----------



## Moonglow

easyt65 said:


> Lowest Black unemployment rate in US history
> Lowest Latino unemployment rate in US history
> Lowest Asian unemployment rate in US history
> Lowest Women unemployment rate in US history
> Lowest Young Adult unemployment rate in US history
> Most# of Americans working at 1 time
> Higher wages, raises, bonuses, and greater opportunities to succeed
> Brought back manufacturing jobs after Barry gave up & told Americans NOT having those jobs was the 'new norm'
> Helped millions of Americans get off welfare, unemployment, food stamps
> Dramatic rise in minority-owned small businesses under Trump
> Ended dependency on social programs / Dems' policies of economic slavery
> Renegotiated better trade deals for Americans
> etc......
> 
> As opposed to dementia-ravaged proven , CCP/Russian-bought, Barry coup co-conspiring Biden who has not done anything beneficial for Americans as President yet....


Largest Increase In U.S. Poverty Recorded​TOPLINE​ 
Due to the coronavirus pandemic’s decimation of the labor market and the months-long expiration of benefits from the government relief package keeping families afloat, the poverty rate in the United States surged from 9.3% in June to 11.7% in November, according to a report released Wednesday by analysts at the University of Chicago and the University of Notre Dame, creating the biggest increase in a single year since the government began tracking poverty in 1960.
In 2020​








						Largest Increase In U.S. Poverty Recorded In 2020
					

More than 2 million children under the age of 17 have fallen into poverty over the past six months.




					www.forbes.com


----------



## marvin martian

surada said:


> I don't blame you for denying it.. Trump is shamefully stupid.



There's no point "denying" an anonymous source.  LOL!  Just like the anonymous source that told me they found you naked with a bowl of jello.


----------



## XponentialChaos

Barr was right.  It was obvious.


----------



## Manonthestreet

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Makes you go hmmm if you're a conspiracy prone imbecile.  His behavior also drove the opposition to increase their vote percentage to an even higher degree that allowed him to be beaten.  Not hard for anyone with more than a second grade education to understand.


Yeah that's it......


----------



## BluesLegend

So before a single audit Barr was convinced there wasn't any election fraud, interesting theory.


----------



## surada

marvin martian said:


> There's no point "denying" an anonymous source.  LOL!  Just like the anonymous source that told me they found you naked with a bowl of jello.



The author conducted more than 100 interviews with people who were there.. and Trump has since denied it.





__





						Trump says Barr 'never' told him he thought he'd lose election
					





					www.msn.com
				




Trump believes if you tell a lie often enough people will believe it.

Trump simply threw his presidency away.


----------



## pknopp

XponentialChaos said:


> Barr was right.  It was obvious.



 Even if he didn't tell him this he should have. There is no question that people did.


----------



## surada

Manonthestreet said:


> Yeah that's it......



Trump blames Barr and Kushner for costing him the election. You know he NEVER takes responsibility for anything.





__





						Trump asked Bill Barr 'How the f--- could you do this to me?' after he told AP there was no evidence of widespread election fraud, book says
					





					www.msn.com


----------



## BluesLegend

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> This was predictable months before the election, but Trump was too much of an arrogant twat to clean up his act and his supporters who dismiss his behavior as a factor in his loss are a bunch of gullible pea brains.


So Dems can attack Trump like a pack of plague rats and Trump can't hit back? Lets not pretend Dems and the liberal media didn't instigate most of these exchanges. Did you want Trump to roll over and take the beatings like Bush did? Lets get real here.


----------



## pknopp

BluesLegend said:


> So Dems can attack Trump like a pack of plague rats and Trump can't hit back? Lets not pretend Dems and the liberal media didn't instigate most of these exchanges. Did you want Trump to roll over and take the beatings like Bush did? Lets get real here.



 Bush was re-elected.


----------



## BluesLegend

pknopp said:


> Bush was re-elected.


No according to Dems.


----------



## Missouri_Mike

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> 
> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> Sarah K. Burris
> July 21, 2021
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.
> 
> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.
> 
> "I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> “There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020
> 
> Continued


I’m sure this actually happened. Idiot.


----------



## healthmyths

Mac-7
I agree and when in the RawStory they wrote, _"Barr wasn't the only one. The day that Trump told people to inject disinfectant and stick a UV light into their bodies, his aides assumed the election was done."_
the above totally fabricated statement proves they are full of crap!
Trump NEVER told people to inject ANY disinfectant.  FACT is he said this:
*Trump said exactly: And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning"*
Something LIKE that... is what he said... DID he tell people to_ "inject a disinfectant" _NO!  But Trump was never a politician who spoke always with political correctness in mind!  He talked like millions of us do!  But he like millions of us would NEVER tell people to "inject disinfectant"!
Finally,,, did Trump actually say "_stick a UV light into their bodies"_
NO!  Here are his exact words:
_So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous — whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light--- 
supposing you brought the light inside the body"_
Where did Trump say "_stick a UV light into their bodies"?_








						Did Trump Suggest Injecting Disinfectant Could Be COVID-19 Treatment?
					

The U.S. president's comments prompted doctors and the makers of household disinfectants to issue statements urging people not to ingest or inject cleaning products.




					www.snopes.com
				



HE DIDN"T  but even the Fact Finding anti-Trump Snopes above repeated the same point...and declared.
Their position that Trump said as I quote Snopes:
"_U.S. President Donald Trump suggested during a White House briefing that injecting disinfectants could treat COVID-19."_
And so they concluded after actually copying Trump's exact words that Trump said:
1) Inject disinfectants and 2) stick a UV light into their bodies!
Trump said neither!  Where did Trump say to inject disinfectants?  NO where!
The exact words are suppose to be reported by reporters.  Yet the VAST majority of MSM are adding their perspectives, their subjective opinions and THAT's what idiots believe is true!  OPINIONS!
SNOPES, et.al.  bend the words to fit their objective.
AND that's why millions of intelligent people look to Trump NOT as a politically correct politician... but someone who actually wants the USA, Americans, law enforcement, etc. to exist!  Not tear it down!


----------



## pknopp

BluesLegend said:


> No according to Dems.



 According to everyone.


----------



## surada

BluesLegend said:


> So Dems can attack Trump like a pack of plague rats and Trump can't hit back? Lets not pretend Dems and the liberal media didn't instigate most of these exchanges. Did you want Trump to roll over and take the beatings like Bush did? Lets get real here.



Trump has attacked everyone.. He can dish it out but he can't take it.. Pretty common for a pig headed bully.









						Trump Lashes Out At McConnell, Barr, Blames Them For His Election Loss
					

Bill Barr did an interview recently, wherein he characterized Donald Trump's Big Lie as "bullshit" plain and simple. That obviously has not endeared him to the denizens of Trump world. Marjorie Taylor Greene went on




					politizoom.com


----------



## easyt65

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Neither did Trump, which is why he lost.


All of these highly emotional opinions, its touching....and hilarious.


----------



## BluesLegend

pknopp said:


> According to everyone.


Dems always claim the election was illegitimate when they lose. They run amok filing lawsuits and protesting. To this day they claim Bush stole it from Gore. Hanging chads LMAO! Dems DEMANDED that Kerry not concede. Hillary told Biden not to concede under any circumstances. Scumbag Dems aren't fooling anyone.


----------



## easyt65

surada said:


> Trump has attacked everyone.. He can dish it out but he can't take it.. Pretty common for a pig headed bully.


All of these highly emotional opinions, its touching....and hilarious.


----------



## surada

healthmyths said:


> Mac-7
> I agree and when in the RawStory they wrote, _"Barr wasn't the only one. The day that Trump told people to inject disinfectant and stick a UV light into their bodies, his aides assumed the election was done."_
> the above totally fabricated statement proves they are full of crap!
> Trump NEVER told people to inject ANY disinfectant.  FACT is he said this:
> *Trump said exactly: And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning"*
> Something LIKE that... is what he said... DID he tell people to_ "inject a disinfectant" _NO!  But Trump was never a politician who spoke always with political correctness in mind!  He talked like millions of us do!  But he like millions of us would NEVER tell people to "inject disinfectant"!
> Finally,,, did Trump actually say "_stick a UV light into their bodies"_
> NO!  Here are his exact words:
> _So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous — whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light---
> supposing you brought the light inside the body"_
> Where did Trump say "_stick a UV light into their bodies"?_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did Trump Suggest Injecting Disinfectant Could Be COVID-19 Treatment?
> 
> 
> The U.S. president's comments prompted doctors and the makers of household disinfectants to issue statements urging people not to ingest or inject cleaning products.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.snopes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HE DIDN"T  but even the Fact Finding anti-Trump Snopes above repeated the same point...and declared.
> Their position that Trump said as I quote Snopes:
> "_U.S. President Donald Trump suggested during a White House briefing that injecting disinfectants could treat COVID-19."_
> And so they concluded after actually copying Trump's exact words that Trump said:
> 1) Inject disinfectants and 2) stick a UV light into their bodies!
> Trump said neither!  Where did Trump say to inject disinfectants?  NO where!
> The exact words are suppose to be reported by reporters.  Yet the VAST majority of MSM are adding their perspectives, their subjective opinions and THAT's what idiots believe is true!  OPINIONS!
> SNOPES, et.al.  bend the words to fit their objective.
> AND that's why millions of intelligent people look to Trump NOT as a politically correct politician... but someone who actually wants the USA, Americans, law enforcement, etc. to exist!  Not tear it down!



Sure he did. Trump is on video giving his medical advice. Did you think Rex Tillerson was playing when he said Trump is a fucking moron? They are know he's a moron... All his lawyers, Barr, Kushner, Putin, Macron, Trudeau, Merkle. They all know Trump's a moron. Even Desantis knows he's a moron.


----------



## surada

BluesLegend said:


> Dems always claim the election was illegitimate when they lose. They run amok filing lawsuits and protesting. To this day they claim Bush stole it from Gore. Hanging chads LMAO! Dems DEMANDED that Kerry not concede. Hillary told Biden not to concede under any circumstances. Scumbag Dems aren't fooling anyone.



When did the Democrats file a lawsuit?


----------



## easyt65

surada said:


> Sure he did. Trump is on video giving his medical advice. Did you think Rex Tillerson was playing when he said Trump is a fucking moron? They are know he's a moron... All his lawyers, Barr, Kushner, Putin, Macron, Trudeau, Merkle. They all know Trump's a moron. Even Desantis knows he's a moron.


Trump was correct about more and more success in 4 years than Biden been / has had his whole life.


----------



## pknopp

BluesLegend said:


> Dems always claim the election was illegitimate when they lose. They run amok filing lawsuits and protesting. To this day they claim Bush stole it from Gore. Hanging chads LMAO! Dems DEMANDED that Kerry not concede. Hillary told Biden not to concede under any circumstances. Scumbag Dems aren't fooling anyone.



 Bush was re-elected. Trump wasn't.


----------



## surada

XponentialChaos said:


> Barr was right.  It was obvious.



Trump is still sitting for interviews... over a dozen book interviews. All of which were recorded. I mean. If he didn't learn after Woodward.....

Dumb as a stump and so vain.


----------



## whitehall

This isn't politics, it's old hate speech. Are we going to see selected excerpts from anti-Trump books for the next four years while the Country falls apart?


----------



## surada

easyt65 said:


> Trump was correct about more and more success in 4 years than Biden been / has had his whole life.



Trump is good at lying, bragging and appealing to other morons.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

marvin martian said:


> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, *according to the reporters*. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> LOL!  Another fantasy "conversation" you got duped into believing by someone selling a book.  Will you EVER learn???  Hahahaha


So crybaby.... Exactly what about thia do you find hard to believe? Don't say the source. You already blubbered that. I want to know what you find hard to believe about the story.


----------



## sartre play

History will judge us, lets work on some positive stuff. Work together find middle ground. No one gets everything they want the way they want it.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

whitehall said:


> Are we going to see selected excerpts from anti-Trump books for the next four years while the Country falls apart?


Probably for the next 20, since was such an historically awful, unfit, and unpopular President.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Mac-7 said:


> This is no credible source for this lie


What about the "lie" do you find hard to believe?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

BluesLegend said:


> Dems always claim the election was illegitimate when they lose.


Freakish delusion of a cultist.


----------



## Mac-7

Moonglow said:


> It's in the Trump theory of fraudulent elections section.


I doubt that anything exists anywhere

But has to on this thread


----------



## Mac-7

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> What about the "lie" do you find hard to believe?


All of it


----------



## colfax_m

BluesLegend said:


> Dems always claim the election was illegitimate when they lose. They run amok filing lawsuits and protesting. To this day they claim Bush stole it from Gore. Hanging chads LMAO! Dems DEMANDED that Kerry not concede. Hillary told Biden not to concede under any circumstances. Scumbag Dems aren't fooling anyone.


Clinton conceded. Kerry conceded. Gore conceded.

Trump didn’t.


----------



## playtime

Mac1958 said:


> His mistake is that Trump can't be humiliated or embarrassed.  He lacks the self-awareness or shame.  He's essentially like a shark, constantly and endlessly on the hunt for food -- the "food" being approval.



donny's niece who has high credentials in the psychology field, having a license to practice says donny's multitude of cray cray layers - certainly has an inferior complex that she has never seen before.


----------



## BrokeLoser

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> 
> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> Sarah K. Burris
> July 21, 2021
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.
> 
> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.
> 
> "I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> “There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020
> 
> Continued





Mac1958 said:


> His mistake is that Trump can't be humiliated or embarrassed.  He lacks the self-awareness or shame.  He's essentially like a shark, constantly and endlessly on the hunt for food -- the "food" being approval.


Meanwhile...outside of twisted LibTardia core Americans saw this on Trumps watch....

*
Unemployment: *Finished 3.68 before COVID. Lowest for data collected 1975-forward, and consistently decreased on his term. Matter of fact the three lowest unemployment rates since at least 1975 occurred on Trump's watch.

*Poverty Rate:* 9.3 before COVID.…… Lowest for data collected 1975-forward. Consistently decreased on his term, which is the only example of said decreases for data collected 1975-forward.

*Crime Rate:* 2.49: …… All three years on Trump’s watch are the lowest crime rates for data collected 1975-forward.

*GDP:* …… Most consistent increases since Bush Jr.

*Misery Index:* 6.6 average. Most positive performance for data collected 1975-forward.

*Inflation Rate:* Consistently performed under 2%, which is the lowest consistent performance for data collected 1975-forward.


----------



## Mac1958

playtime said:


> donny's niece who has high credentials in the psychology field, having a license to practice says donny's multitude of cray cray layers - certainly has an inferior complex that she has never seen before.


Yeah, I haven't either.

Do you think the rubes see it?  If so, do you think it bothers them?  Shouldn't it tell them something?


----------



## playtime

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> his supporters who dismiss his behavior as a factor in his loss are a bunch of gullible pea brains.


----------



## surada

easyt65 said:


> Except no one, to include Barry, was ever held accountable for participating in Barry's failed coup attempt...
> 
> ...or how neither Mueller or Comey were held accountable for illegally spying on Americans for DECADES, as exposed by the FISA Court investigation report
> 
> ...or how none of the Democrats (Schiff & Swalwell) who were proven to have criminally attempted to create fake evidence against Trump in Pelosi's 2 failed Impeachments were held accountable...
> 
> ...Or how it was proven that Barry & co. collaborated with the Russian Intel Service (RIS) to obtain proven Russian-authored propaganda, delivered by a foreign ex-spy working for Barry's FBI and the Russians, to use as their foundation for Barry's failed coup attempt...
> 
> ..or how the tax payer-funded Durham report is being withheld from the American people....
> 
> Actually there is a great deal you could have added - you just chose NOT to.



Billionaire Republican Paul Singer ordered the examination  of Trump's past in Russia.

The FBI investigates everybody who calls Soviet/Russian embassies. They always have, Dummy.


----------



## playtime

Mac1958 said:


> Do you think the rubes see it?



only the ones that didn't vote for him a 2nd time.



Mac1958 said:


> If so, do you think it bothers them?



not really.  i have close family members who know EXACTLY who & what donny has always been but for some of the generic reasons ...

they hated hillary more,  $$$$, & pure racism overrode any hesitations or pings of guilt they had in 2016 & 2020.  it still baffles me, but if i didn't see it myself, i wouldn't believe anybody could.  then again, the real nutters, CONvinced he is dear leader,  nothing will ever bother them.  they are too far gone.



Mac1958 said:


> Shouldn't it tell them something?



hate & ignorance is certainly an evil combination.


----------



## MarcATL

I'm just *glad* to have that *obese* son-of-a-bitch out of Office.


----------



## marvin martian

surada said:


> Trump believes if you tell a lie often enough people will believe it.



That reminds me, how's the release of the pee tape coming along?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Mac-7 said:


> All of it


A wimpy dodge. We will simplify it for you. What do you find hard to believe about Barr telling Trump people are tired of him picking fights? Dont worry. Trump cant hear you.


----------



## my2¢

The problem with Trump's handling of the pandemic wasn't insurmountable.  I do think Trump would have won: 
(a) if Trump knocked off the election fraud crap and presented his record in glowing terms as is typically done and normally works 
     OR 
(b) if Biden spent more time out of his basement.


----------



## easyt65

surada said:


> Trump is good at lying, bragging and appealing to other morons.


He was also great at achieving more success than any other President in DECADES and in some cases in HISTORY, These documented successes can not be denied...unless you are a highly emotionally disturbed snowflake it seems.


----------



## easyt65

surada said:


> Billionaire Republican Paul Singer ordered the examination  of Trump's past in Russia.
> 
> The FBI investigates everybody who calls Soviet/Russian embassies. They always have, Dummy.


Sorry, but the entire Barry Russian Collusion failed political attempt, which Biden played a part in, has been exposed. Your delusions have been crushed...but by all means keep repeating your debunked propaganda.


----------



## surada

easyt65 said:


> Sorry, but the entire Barry Russian Collusion failed political attempt, which Biden played a part in, has been exposed. Your delusions have been crushed...but by all means keep repeating your debunked propaganda.



Obama expelled 34 Russian diplomats from the US and shut down their compounds.


----------



## healthmyths

surada 
Well for a "moron" he evidently is smarter than you as he is a billionaire and first time politician who became president... I'd say for a "moron" !  What have you done?


----------



## Mac-7

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> So crybaby.... Exactly what about thia do you find hard to believe? Don't say the source. You already blubbered that. I want to know what you find hard to believe about the story.


If the source is no good then the whole thing is bad

You got nuthin’


----------



## Mac-7

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> A wimpy dodge. We will simplify it for you. What do you find hard to believe about Barr telling Trump people are tired of him picking fights? Dont worry. Trump cant hear you.


You want me to pretend that fake news is real news

Which I am not going to do


----------



## healthmyths

BrokeLoser
PLUS for the first time in  62 years the United States Was Energy Independent in 2019  Since 1957. Hmmm... that's
62 years!  
So what did Biden do?  Signed a moratorium on federal land leases issued for oil exploration even though the USA gets 25% of oil from Federal lands! 

Here is the proof folks!
About a quarter (25%) of U.S. oil and an eighth of the nation's natural gas is produced on federal lands.








						Oil from federal lands tops 1B barrels as Trump eases rules
					

Oil production from federally-managed lands and waters topped a record 1 billion barrels last year




					abcnews.go.com
				



Obama like Biden hates the USA being energy independent!


----------



## DBA

Mac1958 said:


> Yeah, I haven't either.
> 
> Do you think the rubes see it?  If so, do you think it bothers them?  Shouldn't it tell them something?



My wife is a physician and if Biden was her patient she would be treating him for dementia. He has all the signs. Only never-Trumpers are blind to it.


----------



## Ben Thomson

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> 
> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> Sarah K. Burris
> July 21, 2021
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.
> 
> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.
> 
> "I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> “There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020
> 
> Continued


All of these tell-all books have a common theme..aides and close confidants tried to reign in Trump and get him to stop with his unhinged BS but failed.


----------



## Aldo Raine

healthmyths 
He inherited his wealth and he actually ran for president in 2000 as a 3rd party candidate and got smoked then as well. 
MAGA


----------



## surada

Ben Thomson said:


> All of these tell-all books have a common theme..aides and close confidants tried to reign in Trump and get him to stop with his unhinged BS but failed.



Yeah.. They thought they could handle Trump.


----------



## colfax_m

BrokeLoser said:


> Meanwhile...outside of twisted LibTardia core Americans saw this on Trumps watch....


Hate to break it to you, but Trump was president for 4 years. 

Not 3.


----------



## Winston

BrokeLoser said:


> Meanwhile...outside of twisted LibTardia core Americans saw this on Trumps watch....
> 
> 
> *Unemployment: *Finished 3.68 before COVID. Lowest for data collected 1975-forward, and consistently decreased on his term. Matter of fact the three lowest unemployment rates since at least 1975 occurred on Trump's watch.
> 
> *Poverty Rate:* 9.3 before COVID.…… Lowest for data collected 1975-forward. Consistently decreased on his term, which is the only example of said decreases for data collected 1975-forward.
> 
> *Crime Rate:* 2.49: …… All three years on Trump’s watch are the lowest crime rates for data collected 1975-forward.
> 
> *GDP:* …… Most consistent increases since Bush Jr.
> 
> *Misery Index:* 6.6 average. Most positive performance for data collected 1975-forward.
> 
> *Inflation Rate:* Consistently performed under 2%, which is the lowest consistent performance for data collected 1975-forward.


Seems like you look at numbers the way Trump plays golf.  I suppose his response to Covid was a mulligan.  Unemployment rate, maybe, but what about labor participation rate?  The ACA freed up a lot of people from the bondage of employer provided health insurance and the labor participation rate was lower than anytime during the Obama administration, when you righties cried about it all the time.

The poverty rate, it has already been documented within this thread, biggest increase in poverty since records have been kept, sorry, but I don't allow Covid mulligans.

Crime rate--you are going to have to document that claim.  I ain't buying it.

GDP--horseshit, Clinton did much better than Trump.  Check the numbers.

Misery index--sorry, not taking your word for that claim.  I would lean toward Clinton again.

Inflation rate--hell inflation has been under two percent for flippin years.  Funny, you will scream mulligan when the Covid reaction hurts Trump's numbers, but claim all the credit when Covid puts a lid on inflation.

You Trump supporters are not that bright, but then again, neither is Trump.


----------



## Winston

Ben Thomson said:


> All of these tell-all books have a common theme..aides and close confidants tried to reign in Trump and get him to stop with his unhinged BS but failed.


That is because Trump is the smartest man in the universe.  Or so he thinks.  But one of his college professors said he was the dumbest student he ever had.  That, I can believe.


----------



## Lakhota

Mac-7 said:


> Do libs never tire of repeating fake news?
> 
> This is no credible source for this lie



Funny.  They reportedly have it all on tape from the Trump interview.


----------



## Mac-7

Lakhota said:


> Funny. They reportedly have it all on tape from the Trump interview.


Have you heard it?


----------



## bodecea

Manonthestreet said:


> And yet he increased his vote percentage to a degree that no President running for reelection who has done same has ever lost......makes ya go hhhhhmmmm


Wasn't enough...lolol


----------



## Clipper

marvin martian said:


> There's no point "denying" an anonymous source.  LOL!  Just like the anonymous source that told me they found you naked with a bowl of jello.


Barr resigned a month before Benjamin Trump left office because he was sick of his bully act, his lying & his fucking stupidity. The story is true whether you Trumptards like it or not. 

Now carry on with your crying jag because your boy lost if it makes you feel better.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Mac-7 said:


> the source is no good then the whole thing is bad


That's really stupid logic used by people trying to keep themselves from having to use their brains or be honest. Congrats. As if you know squat about the source anyway. So you are just lying to yourself out loud.


----------



## easyt65

Clipper said:


> Barr resigned a month before Benjamin Trump left office because he was sick of his bully act, his lying & his fucking stupidity. The story is true whether you Trumptards like it or not.
> 
> Now carry on with your crying jag because your boy lost if it makes you feel better.


Barr had 1 simple job, and he failed to do it.
Durham had 1 job & is being prevented from completing it.


----------



## Clipper

easyt65 said:


> Barr had 1 simple job, and he failed to do it.
> Durham had 1 job & is being prevented from completing it.


He (Barr) did? And what might that be? Commit treason for Trump? Do you actually believe that Barr, who did plenty for Trump since his appointment would cross that line for a backstabbing bastard like Trump? Do you actually believe that Barr would help to destroy our democracy for a lying corrupt deranged ex game show host who would turn around & stab Barr in the back in a heartbeat? 

Enjoy your fantasy.


----------



## jc456

pknopp said:


> _"You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' " _
> 
> Quite a few said this. It was noted here quite often.


then how did he receive 13 million more votes?  That isn't logical.

Oh wait,  you're saying that Barr was part of the cheat, he knew they were going to steal using mail in ballots that are fraudulent.  Gotcha


----------



## pknopp

jc456 said:


> then how did he receive 13 million more votes?  That isn't logical.



 We did good and expanded the access to voting, that was a good thing. If he hadn't been such a dick he would have won.


----------



## bripat9643

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> 
> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> Sarah K. Burris
> July 21, 2021
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.
> 
> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.
> 
> "I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> “There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020
> 
> Continued







__





						Home - The New Civil Rights Movement
					





					www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com
				




Hearsay from a Trump hating prog.

Not credible.


----------



## bripat9643

pknopp said:


> _"You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' " _
> 
> Quite a few said this. It was noted here quite often.


Said what, that Barr said what you claim?  You mean they repeated an obvious lie?


----------



## jknowgood

surada said:


> All the men around Trump were better men than he is.  You know they hated being stuck with him.. Trump wasted his presidency.


Just as always Obama thought he was the smartest man in the room. Fact is, he was the most ignorant and Biden a newborn baby is way smarter.


----------



## jc456

pknopp said:


> We did good and expanded the access to voting, that was a good thing. If he hadn't been such a dick he would have won.


you mean if the cheat didn't occur.


----------



## bripat9643

surada said:


> All the men around Trump were better men than he is.  You know they hated being stuck with him.. Trump wasted his presidency.


Another Dim talking point.

<YAWN!>


----------



## jc456

bripat9643 said:


> Said what, that Barr said what you claim?  You mean they repeated an obvious lie?


they are saying that Barr was part of the cheat.  How else could anyone say such shit?


----------



## jc456

bripat9643 said:


> Another Dim talking point.
> 
> <YAWN!>


it's all they got


----------



## bripat9643

Mac1958 said:


> His mistake is that Trump can't be humiliated or embarrassed.  He lacks the self-awareness or shame.  He's essentially like a shark, constantly and endlessly on the hunt for food -- the "food" being approval.


You lack the self awareness to know that you're full of shit


----------



## surada

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> That's really stupid logic used by people trying to keep themselves from having to use their brains or be honest. Congrats. As if you know squat about the source anyway. So you are just lying to yourself out loud.





bripat9643 said:


> Another Dim talking point.
> 
> <YAWN!>



You don't need talking points  to look at the good men who failed to control Trump.


----------



## bripat9643

jc456 said:


> they are saying that Barr was part of the cheat.  How else could anyone say such shit?


He didn't say that.


----------



## bripat9643

surada said:


> You don't need talking points  to look at the good men who failed to control Trump.


You believe someone failed to control Trump only because we all know that some people are controlling Biden.


----------



## dudmuck

bripat9643 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Home - The New Civil Rights Movement
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hearsay from a Trump hating prog.
> 
> Not credible.


its from Jared too, not just Barr.









						William Barr and Jared Kushner both referred to the Trump campaign's legal efforts to overturn the election as a 'clown show,' book says
					

Kushner told Sen. David Perdue that the whole operation went downhill with Rudy Giuliani in charge, saying, "I can't help you," according to a book.




					www.businessinsider.com


----------



## jknowgood

Moonglow said:


> Largest Increase In U.S. Poverty Recorded​TOPLINE​
> Due to the coronavirus pandemic’s decimation of the labor market and the months-long expiration of benefits from the government relief package keeping families afloat, the poverty rate in the United States surged from 9.3% in June to 11.7% in November, according to a report released Wednesday by analysts at the University of Chicago and the University of Notre Dame, creating the biggest increase in a single year since the government began tracking poverty in 1960.
> In 2020​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Largest Increase In U.S. Poverty Recorded In 2020
> 
> 
> More than 2 million children under the age of 17 have fallen into poverty over the past six months.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com


Your boy Biden is screwing the pooch. 3 times more infected with covid in a couple of weeks. 49 died with covid in new jersey and they were fully vaccinated. So we will soon see how you treat your fuck up when American unnecessarily die from his dementia.


----------



## bripat9643

dudmuck said:


> its from Jared too, not just Barr.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> William Barr and Jared Kushner both referred to the Trump campaign's legal efforts to overturn the election as a 'clown show,' book says
> 
> 
> Kushner told Sen. David Perdue that the whole operation went downhill with Rudy Giuliani in charge, saying, "I can't help you," according to a book.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.businessinsider.com


You mean it's from Michael Bender, a fake news journalist.


----------



## Lesh

jc456 said:


> then how did he receive 13 million more votes? That isn't logical.


It's only illogical if you don't understand that a LOT of voters were fed up with Trump

You do realize that Trump got about 10 million more votes in 2020 than he did in 2016 right?

It was an energized electorate


----------



## Winston

jknowgood said:


> Your boy Biden is screwing the pooch. 3 times more infected with covid in a couple of weeks. 49 died with covid in new jersey and they were fully vaccinated. So we will soon see how you treat your fuck up when American unnecessarily die from his dementia.


So, Biden is responsible for Covid deaths under his watch but Trump is not?


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> then how did he receive 13 million more votes? That isn't logical.


Obviously those were fraudulent. It’s mathematically impossible for him to get 13 million more votes.


----------



## jc456

Mac1958 said:


> His mistake is that Trump can't be humiliated or embarrassed.  He lacks the self-awareness or shame.  He's essentially like a shark, constantly and endlessly on the hunt for food -- the "food" being approval.


what it implies is Barr was part of the steal.


----------



## Mac1958

jc456 said:


> what it implies is Barr was part of the steal.


Of course!  Everybody is, except Trumpsters.


----------



## jc456

Winston said:


> So, Biden is responsible for Covid deaths under his watch but Trump is not?


Fauci is.


colfax_m said:


> Obviously those were fraudulent. It’s mathematically impossible for him to get 13 million more votes.


Maybe so, without an audit no one knows.  I'm good with auditing every state.


----------



## jc456

Mac1958 said:


> Of course!  Everybody is, except Trumpsters.


how else can someone make such a statement? He got his caish


----------



## Lesh

colfax_m said:


> Obviously those were fraudulent. It’s mathematically impossible for him to get 13 million more votes.


No actually it's not.

What idiot told you that?


----------



## theHawk

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> 
> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> Sarah K. Burris
> July 21, 2021
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.
> 
> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.
> 
> "I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> “There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020
> 
> Continued


----------



## Lesh

^^ nut job post^^


----------



## surada

Mac-7 said:


> Do libs never tire of repeating fake news?
> 
> This is no credible source for this lie



Trump is still giving interviews to all these authors. He never learns... and he's getting sicker all the time.


----------



## jc456

Lesh said:


> It's only illogical if you don't understand that a LOT of voters were fed up with Trump
> 
> You do realize that Trump got about 10 million more votes in 2020 than he did in 2016 right?
> 
> It was an energized electorate


duh, I said 13 million more votes.  Idiot.  if they were fed up more came on board.  too fking funny.


----------



## jc456

surada said:


> Trump is still giving interviews to all these authors. He never learns... and he's getting sicker all the time.


Trump lives in your head.  I love it.


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> Maybe so, without an audit no one knows. I'm good with auditing every state.


Republicans won’t allow us to access the ballots. They were kicking anyone looking for the truth out of Arizona’s audit.


----------



## Lesh

jc456 said:


> duh, I said 13 million more votes.  Idiot.  if they were fed up more came on board.  too fking funny.


I know that's "
supposed" to mean something. Care to explain in English for the good folks?


----------



## Lakhota

Mac-7 said:


> Have you heard it?



It's in the book - plus I've heard some excerpts on TV.


----------



## jc456

colfax_m said:


> Republicans won’t allow us to access the ballots. They were kicking anyone looking for the truth out of Arizona’s audit.


sure they will.  You never asked.


----------



## jc456

Lesh said:


> I know that's "
> supposed" to mean something. Care to explain in English for the good folks?


----------



## jc456

Lakhota said:


> It's in the book - plus I've heard some excerpts on TV.


so you didn't hear it? So you have no clue.


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> sure they will.  You never asked.


We did ask and they kicked people out. They recruited only Republicans to work there. Then when the press started asking questions they boxed everything up and ran off. 

Total coverup of their fraud.


----------



## jc456

colfax_m said:


> We did ask and they kicked people out. They recruited only Republicans to work there. Then when the press started asking questions they boxed everything up and ran off.
> 
> Total coverup of their fraud.


yeah sure they did. And you were there?  here we go, link!!!


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> yeah sure they did. And you were there?  here we go, link!!!


It’s on video. 








						Arizona Republicans move 2020 ballots in trucks after pausing controversial election audit
					

The first semi truck full of 2020 election ballots rolled slowly through the Arizona State Fairgrounds on Friday, past the "Crazy Times Carnival" set up in the south parking lot to a warehouse where the approximately 2.1 million ballots cast by Maricopa County voters will be stored for the next...




					www.cnn.com
				




Poof. Everything in trucks. No idea what happens next. 

Republicans are obviously covering up their massive fraud.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> 
> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> Sarah K. Burris
> July 21, 2021
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.
> 
> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.
> 
> "I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> “There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020
> 
> Continued


Ahh someone wrote it in a book so it must be true right?

Derp

Read any Dr Suess books lately?


----------



## surada

Grampa Murked U said:


> Ahh someone wrote it in a book so it must be true right?
> 
> Derp
> 
> Read any Dr Suess books lately?



They get all their interviews on tape.

Are you still true believer?


----------



## healthmyths

Aldo Raine 
You are right on both counts.  Something that few if any of your fellow communists would do as an honest person like me is doing.  See Trump though never was a politician even running on the third party.  
And that's what really sad about people like you.  You look at the exterior.  The dressing.  The costumes.  But never at the heart.  I personally don't like a lot of Trump's characteristics...BUT I am evidently smart enough and sophisticated enough to look beyond the little petty aspects that people evidently like you do.
I'm asking you to be honest...maybe for the first time.
YOU tell me where the attached statements and policies that Trump was 100% against but that Obama and now Biden totally and basically unAmerican in tone and function favored.
I mean do you really favor 1 million barrels of oil traveling one mile on the open ocean vs 700 barrels on 1 mile of dry land?
Read the below.  Trump was in favor... Obama/Biden evidently weren't smart enough to see the distinction!
Or how about putting 450,000 people out of work while bankrupting 1,400 companies that pay over $100 billion  a year in taxes?  Does that make economic sense?
Or forcing Americans to face skyrocketing utility rates?  Or seeing companies go bankrupt?  Are those things you want?
These are a few of the MANY contradictions to Obama/Biden's communist supporting agenda.  Truly Obama/Biden really hate America.  Hate the military.  Hate law enforcement.  All the opposite of that childish, non-politically correct, who gave his annual Presidential salary 4 years... something only 3 other presidents have done.  
So I truly forgive your ignorance and unsophisticated  lack of distinction between a life time politician like Biden/Obama and a typical American i.e. Trump and millions like us who totally find politically-correct lifetime politicians like Biden disgusting as we millions of Americans find people who love the communists hate Americans disgusting and frankly we feel truly sorry for your ignorance.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

surada said:


> They get all their interviews on tape.
> 
> Are you still true believer?


Have you heard the tape?

And no, I don't believe in god


----------



## BluesLegend

colfax_m said:


> Clinton conceded. Kerry conceded. Gore conceded.
> 
> Trump didn’t.


That's because Clinton, Kerry, and Gore were losers.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

BluesLegend said:


> hat's because Clinton, Kerry, and Gore were losers.


Yes, and all the other candidates in history who also conceded were losers, too. But the historically unpopular and unfit Trump -- who lost by the largest margin of votes ever -- was not a loser.

Because cult.


----------



## surada

healthmyths said:


> Aldo Raine
> You are right on both counts.  Something that few if any of your fellow communists would do as an honest person like me is doing.  See Trump though never was a politician even running on the third party.
> And that's what really sad about people like you.  You look at the exterior.  The dressing.  The costumes.  But never at the heart.  I personally don't like a lot of Trump's characteristics...BUT I am evidently smart enough and sophisticated enough to look beyond the little petty aspects that people evidently like you do.
> I'm asking you to be honest...maybe for the first time.
> YOU tell me where the attached statements and policies that Trump was 100% against but that Obama and now Biden totally and basically unAmerican in tone and function favored.
> I mean do you really favor 1 million barrels of oil traveling one mile on the open ocean vs 700 barrels on 1 mile of dry land?
> Read the below.  Trump was in favor... Obama/Biden evidently weren't smart enough to see the distinction!
> Or how about putting 450,000 people out of work while bankrupting 1,400 companies that pay over $100 billion  a year in taxes?  Does that make economic sense?
> Or forcing Americans to face skyrocketing utility rates?  Or seeing companies go bankrupt?  Are those things you want?
> These are a few of the MANY contradictions to Obama/Biden's communist supporting agenda.  Truly Obama/Biden really hate America.  Hate the military.  Hate law enforcement.  All the opposite of that childish, non-politically correct, who gave his annual Presidential salary 4 years... something only 3 other presidents have done.
> So I truly forgive your ignorance and unsophisticated  lack of distinction between a life time politician like Biden/Obama and a typical American i.e. Trump and millions like us who totally find politically-correct lifetime politicians like Biden disgusting as we millions of Americans find people who love the communists hate Americans disgusting and frankly we feel truly sorry for your ignorance.
> View attachment 516030



You are remarkably stupid and still don't know anything about Keystone XL or Communism.





BluesLegend said:


> That's because Clinton, Kerry, and Gore were losers.



The only loser is Trump.


----------



## colfax_m

BluesLegend said:


> That's because Clinton, Kerry, and Gore were losers.


Conceding doesn’t make one a loser. You win or lose if you win or lose. 

Conceding a lost election just means you are based in reality.


----------



## healthmyths

Winston 
You wrote...Misery index--sorry, not taking your word for that claim.* I would lean toward Clinton again.
So simple to get the facts!
Biden --- 6th worst
Clinton  -10th worst
Trump --12th*
And that is just one of the FACTS you seem unable to find out using you know...the INTERNET!
*

*


----------



## Crepitus

easyt65 said:


> Except no one, to include Barry, was ever held accountable for participating in Barry's failed coup attempt...
> 
> ...or how neither Mueller or Comey were held accountable for illegally spying on Americans for DECADES, as exposed by the FISA Court investigation report
> 
> ...or how none of the Democrats (Schiff & Swalwell) who were proven to have criminally attempted to create fake evidence against Trump in Pelosi's 2 failed Impeachments were held accountable...
> 
> ...Or how it was proven that Barry & co. collaborated with the Russian Intel Service (RIS) to obtain proven Russian-authored propaganda, delivered by a foreign ex-spy working for Barry's FBI and the Russians, to use as their foundation for Barry's failed coup attempt...
> 
> ..or how the tax payer-funded Durham report is being withheld from the American people....
> 
> Actually there is a great deal you could have added - you just chose NOT to.


None of that stuff actually happened.


----------



## BluesLegend

surada said:


> You are remarkably stupid and still don't know anything about Keystone XL or Communism.
> 
> The only loser is Trump.


I LMAO when Trump whooped Hillary's ass and millions of Dems cried.


----------



## healthmyths

Winston 
YOU WROTE..._*Crime rate--you are going to have to document that claim. I ain't buying it.*_
FACTS again so easy to show idiots who write crap thinking, that "thinking" people will believe!

U.S. crime rate & statistics for 2018 was 4.96, a 6.77% *decline *from 2017.
U.S. crime rate & statistics for 2017 was 5.32, a 1.37% *decline* from 2016.
U.S. crime rate & statistics for 2016 was 5.39, a 8.91% increase from 2015.
U.S. crime rate & statistics for 2015 was 4.95, a 11.37% increase from 2014.
U.S. Crime Rate & Statistics 1990-2021
See so easy to totally refute you totally 100% wrong statements!
Decline means the percentage of crime declined!!!


----------



## BluesLegend

colfax_m said:


> Conceding doesn’t make one a loser. You win or lose if you win or lose.
> 
> Conceding a lost election just means you are based in reality.


First Hillary let the noob Obama a nobody who had never operated a lemonade stand whoop her ass. Then Trump clobbered her. That's a loser. (makes L loser sign)


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

BluesLegend said:


> First Hillary let the noob Obama a nobody who had never operated a lemonade stand whoop her ass. Then Trump clobbered her. That's a loser.


Compared to ... whom? ONly to people who win presidential elections.

Compared to an uneducated slob like you?  Ha , not quite.


----------



## colfax_m

BluesLegend said:


> First Hillary let the noob Obama a nobody who had never operated a lemonade stand whoop her ass. Then Trump clobbered her. That's a loser. (makes L loser sign)


I’d rather be a loser than someone so detached from reality that they can’t admit they lost. 

Trump is a loser. He lost the House, the Senate and the presidency and he can’t even admit it. He’s a joke.


----------



## Winston

healthmyths said:


> Winston
> YOU WROTE..._*Crime rate--you are going to have to document that claim. I ain't buying it.*_
> FACTS again so easy to show idiots who write crap thinking, that "thinking" people will believe!
> 
> U.S. crime rate & statistics for 2018 was 4.96, a 6.77% *decline *from 2017.
> U.S. crime rate & statistics for 2017 was 5.32, a 1.37% *decline* from 2016.
> U.S. crime rate & statistics for 2016 was 5.39, a 8.91% increase from 2015.
> U.S. crime rate & statistics for 2015 was 4.95, a 11.37% increase from 2014.
> U.S. Crime Rate & Statistics 1990-2021
> See so easy to totally refute you totally 100% wrong statements!
> Decline means the percentage of crime declined!!!


Wow, 2018 was .01 higher than 2015, and 2015 was a double digit increase from 2014.  Looks like Obama was the man.  Sorry, but that did not help your cause.


----------



## BluesLegend

colfax_m said:


> I’d rather be a loser than someone so detached from reality that they can’t admit they lost.
> 
> Trump is a loser. He lost the House, the Senate and the presidency and he can’t even admit it. He’s a joke.


Trump didn't lose, Dems rigged and cheated. Maybe it's for the best just 4 years of Trump traumatized you left wingers for life.


----------



## Winston

healthmyths said:


> Winston
> YOU WROTE..._*Crime rate--you are going to have to document that claim. I ain't buying it.*_
> FACTS again so easy to show idiots who write crap thinking, that "thinking" people will believe!
> 
> U.S. crime rate & statistics for 2018 was 4.96, a 6.77% *decline *from 2017.
> U.S. crime rate & statistics for 2017 was 5.32, a 1.37% *decline* from 2016.
> U.S. crime rate & statistics for 2016 was 5.39, a 8.91% increase from 2015.
> U.S. crime rate & statistics for 2015 was 4.95, a 11.37% increase from 2014.
> U.S. Crime Rate & Statistics 1990-2021
> See so easy to totally refute you totally 100% wrong statements!
> Decline means the percentage of crime declined!!!


LOL, did you look at the graph?  Obama was the man.  Got anything past 2018?


----------



## bripat9643

colfax_m said:


> Conceding doesn’t make one a loser. You win or lose if you win or lose.
> 
> Conceding a lost election just means you are based in reality.


Nope, not when you concede to Democrat swindlers.


----------



## colfax_m

BluesLegend said:


> Trump didn't lose, Dems rigged and cheated. Maybe it's for the best just 4 years of Trump traumatized you left wingers for life.


He also lost in court trying to claim the Dems rigged and cheated. 

He lost A LOT.


----------



## colfax_m

bripat9643 said:


> Nope, not when you concede to Democrat swindlers.


This is just sad.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

colfax_m said:


> He lost A LOT.


* lost Georgia 4 times, really


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

bripat9643 : Show me the evidence!

(Bripat gets buried in evidence, has to be extracted from the pile of evidence using the Jaws of Life)

Bripat: That's all fake news! All lies and conspiracy!


And now you know why i never, ever provide any links or evidence to Bripat.


----------



## Lesh

BluesLegend said:


> I LMAO when Trump whooped Hillary's ass and millions of Dems cried.


And he lost to Biden and you folks are throwing tantrums


----------



## Mac-7

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> That's really stupid logic used by people trying to keep themselves from having to use their brains or be honest. Congrats. As if you know squat about the source anyway. So you are just lying to yourself out loud.


If it aint true then there is nothing to discuss


----------



## bodecea

surada said:


> Trump is good at lying, bragging and appealing to other morons.


What we see here is the "appealing to other morons".


----------



## Mac-7

surada said:


> Trump is still giving interviews to all these authors.


I dont know if he is or not 

But if so I agree he should not give the lib media the time of day


----------



## 22lcidw

surada said:


> All the men around Trump were better men than he is.  You know they hated being stuck with him.. Trump wasted his presidency.


If Trump was walking down the street and someone threw a baby out a third story window and he dove to save it, he would be reviled and scorned. It was near total viciousness against him. Not only him but his wife. Near the whole media disregarded her. Fashion and architecture magazines could have had her on the cover many many times.  A well known fashion magazine is now praising the fashions Dr.Jill wears.


----------



## bodecea

easyt65 said:


> He was also great at achieving more success than any other President in DECADES and in some cases in HISTORY, These documented successes can not be denied...unless you are a highly emotionally disturbed snowflake it seems.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Mac-7 said:


> If it aint true then there is nothing to discuss


Haha...now you are saying dumb shit for attention. Or you have the logic skills of a grape.


----------



## bodecea

22lcidw said:


> If Trump was walking down the street and someone threw a baby out a third story window and he dove to save it, he would be reviled and scorned. It was near total viciousness against him. Not only him but his wife. Near the whole media disregarded her. Fashion and architecture magazines could have had her on the cover many many times.  A well known fashion magazine is now praising the fashions Dr.Jill wears.


That would never happen.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

22lcidw said:


> If Trump was walking down the street and someone threw a baby out a third story window and he dove to save it, he would be reviled and scorned


Cute story! In real life he left his own baby and wife at home to go rawdog a porn star. You must be the biographer he hired, haha


----------



## bodecea

Clipper said:


> He (Barr) did? And what might that be? Commit treason for Trump? Do you actually believe that Barr, who did plenty for Trump since his appointment would cross that line for a backstabbing bastard like Trump? Do you actually believe that Barr would help to destroy our democracy for a lying corrupt deranged ex game show host who would turn around & stab Barr in the back in a heartbeat?
> 
> Enjoy your fantasy.


That poster says that because HE would be willing to sell out this country for his orange god.


----------



## bodecea

jknowgood said:


> Just as always Obama thought he was the smartest man in the room. Fact is, he was the most ignorant and Biden a newborn baby is way smarter.


Look!   Over there!  >>>>>>>>>  Did someone just mention *Former President Obama*?  Two time elected President Obama?


----------



## bodecea

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Cute story! In real life he left his own baby and wife at home to go rawdog a porn star. You must be the biographer he hired, haha


One of the reasons they worship him so.


----------



## Mac-7

Lakhota said:


> It's in the book - plus I've heard some excerpts on TV.


Maybe but if it aint here it does not exist


----------



## bodecea

jknowgood said:


> Your boy Biden is screwing the pooch. 3 times more infected with covid in a couple of weeks. 49 died with covid in new jersey and they were fully vaccinated. So we will soon see how you treat your fuck up when American unnecessarily die from his dementia.


The unvaccinated.   Not really caring if they can't take responsibility for their own lives.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> Trump lives in your head.  I love it.


And yet, here you are.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


>


What's the matter?  Your orange god not tell you what to think yet?


----------



## bodecea

Grampa Murked U said:


> Ahh someone wrote it in a book so it must be true right?
> 
> Derp
> 
> Read any Dr Suess books lately?


And now we know your reading level.


----------



## bodecea

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Yes, and all the other candidates in history who also conceded were losers, too. But the historically unpopular and unfit Trump -- who lost by the largest margin of votes ever -- was not a loser.
> 
> Because cult.


Apparently orange gods don't con-cede.


----------



## bodecea

BluesLegend said:


> Trump didn't lose, Dems rigged and cheated. Maybe it's for the best just 4 years of Trump traumatized you left wingers for life.


Pushing The Big Lie for your orange god.


----------



## Lesh

22lcidw said:


> If Trump was walking down the street and someone threw a baby out a third story window and he dove to save it, he would be reviled and scorned. It was near total viciousness against him. Not only him but his wife. Near the whole media disregarded her. Fashion and architecture magazines could have had her on the cover many many times.  A well known fashion magazine is now praising the fashions Dr.Jill wears.


He'd dive out of the way to avoid soiling his suit...and you'd defend him


----------



## Arresmillao

deannalw said:


> Even if it's true, I can raise no give a fucks.



*no one really gives a shit bout what pussygrabber's cult followers think, after all, they are animals...





*


----------



## Manonthestreet

Let's not forget Hilly told us exactly how the fraud was going to go down.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Manonthestreet said:


> Let's not forget Hilly told us exactly how the fraud was going to go down.


Cult delusion


----------



## Manonthestreet

Just the facts


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Manonthestreet said:


> Just the facts


As made up by the cult leader and chanted by the cult.


----------



## surada

colfax_m said:


> Clinton conceded. Kerry conceded. Gore conceded.
> 
> Trump didn’t.



Well, Trump isn't much of a man. He can't handle losing.


----------



## lennypartiv

Barr sure went down hill fast.


----------



## Manonthestreet

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> As made up by the cult leader and chanted by the cult.


Exactly as they happened .......


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Manonthestreet said:


> Exactly as they happened .......


Freakish delusion. You are embarrassing yourself.


----------



## bripat9643

bodecea said:


> That poster says that because HE would be willing to sell out this country for his orange god.


You would do it for nothing simply because you hate America.


----------



## lennypartiv

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Yes, and all the other candidates in history who also conceded were losers, too. But the historically unpopular and unfit Trump -- who lost by the largest margin of votes ever -- was not a loser.


But Trump actually won.


----------



## BluesLegend

bodecea said:


> Pushing The Big Lie for your orange god.


----------



## Death Angel

marvin martian said:


> "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."


This part was definitely NOT true as seen by the outpouringcofcsupport the Democrats can only dream of.

Trump got the highest voter turnout of any incumbent.  Yet Democrats would like us to believe BIDEN had more support than their own black messiah.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Death Angel said:


> This part was definitely NOT true as seen by the outpouringcofcsupport the Democrats can only dream of


Or they can pick up a history book and see biden got 7 million more votes.


----------



## lennypartiv

Lesh said:


> It's only illogical if you don't understand that a LOT of voters were fed up with Trump


Trump was a breath of fresh air.  If he was ten years younger when he was first elected I would have love to see him be a four termer like the communist president we had during WWII.


----------



## Aldo Raine

healthmyths said:


> Aldo Raine
> You are right on both counts.  Something that few if any of your fellow communists would do as an honest person like me is doing.  See Trump though never was a politician even running on the third party.
> And that's what really sad about people like you.  You look at the exterior.  The dressing.  The costumes.  But never at the heart.  I personally don't like a lot of Trump's characteristics...BUT I am evidently smart enough and sophisticated enough to look beyond the little petty aspects that people evidently like you do.
> I'm asking you to be honest...maybe for the first time.
> YOU tell me where the attached statements and policies that Trump was 100% against but that Obama and now Biden totally and basically unAmerican in tone and function favored.
> I mean do you really favor 1 million barrels of oil traveling one mile on the open ocean vs 700 barrels on 1 mile of dry land?
> Read the below.  Trump was in favor... Obama/Biden evidently weren't smart enough to see the distinction!
> Or how about putting 450,000 people out of work while bankrupting 1,400 companies that pay over $100 billion  a year in taxes?  Does that make economic sense?
> Or forcing Americans to face skyrocketing utility rates?  Or seeing companies go bankrupt?  Are those things you want?
> These are a few of the MANY contradictions to Obama/Biden's communist supporting agenda.  Truly Obama/Biden really hate America.  Hate the military.  Hate law enforcement.  All the opposite of that childish, non-politically correct, who gave his annual Presidential salary 4 years... something only 3 other presidents have done.
> So I truly forgive your ignorance and unsophisticated  lack of distinction between a life time politician like Biden/Obama and a typical American i.e. Trump and millions like us who totally find politically-correct lifetime politicians like Biden disgusting as we millions of Americans find people who love the communists hate Americans disgusting and frankly we feel truly sorry for your ignorance.
> View attachment 516030



If the worst president in American history is gone, and he was as of January 20th 2021, you bet that is what I want.
MAGA


----------



## Lakhota

Mac-7 said:


> Maybe but if it aint here it does not exist



Just like you no longer exist.  Bye...


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> What's the matter?  Your orange god not tell you what to think yet?


You should proofread


----------



## jc456

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Freakish delusion. You are embarrassing yourself.


Oh the irony


----------



## Mac-7

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Haha...now you are saying dumb shit for attention. Or you have the logic skills of a grape.


You listen to fake news and expect me to comment on it


----------



## easyt65

Crepitus said:


> None of that stuff actually happened.













.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

whitehall said:


> This isn't politics, it's old hate speech. Are we going to see selected excerpts from anti-Trump books for the next four years while the Country falls apart?


Wrong. 

It's very much about politics; the disastrous political consequences of Trump's incompetence and stupidity.


----------



## MinTrut

marvin martian said:


> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, *according to the reporters*. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> LOL!  Another fantasy "conversation" you got duped into believing by someone selling a book.  Will you EVER learn???  Hahahaha


Thread.


----------



## schmidlap

lennypartiv said:


> Trump was a breath of fresh air.






The 2020 election, Americans' first opportunity to remove the stench, was a relief.




*"Ah, phooey!
I'll go - but I'll still make a big stink!"*​


----------



## schmidlap

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> 
> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> Sarah K. Burris
> July 21, 2021
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.
> 
> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.
> 
> "I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> “There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020
> 
> Continued


Trump butt barnacles become hysterical whenever the most abject Trump toady fails to display groveling obeisance in all things Trump. Trump goons screeching _"Hang Mile Pence!"_ when they attacked Congress was a glaring example of the cult's fanaticism.

When one recalls all Trump's appointments (He only chooses the _best_ people) that he ended up whining about, it is a case study of a paranoid megalomaniac's monumental insecurity.  

He's a loser.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> bripat9643 : Show me the evidence!
> 
> (Bripat gets buried in evidence, has to be extracted from the pile of evidence using the Jaws of Life)
> 
> Bripat: That's all fake news! All lies and conspiracy!
> 
> 
> And now you know why i never, ever provide any links or evidence to Bripat.


Or anyone else on the right, for that matter.


----------



## dannyboys

Mac1958 said:


> His mistake is that Trump can't be humiliated or embarrassed.  He lacks the self-awareness or shame.  He's essentially like a shark, constantly and endlessly on the hunt for food -- the "food" being approval.


So Trump is like you.
You both have 'self esteem' "Daddy didn't love me" issues.


----------



## dannyboys

The only question I have for Phil Rucker is: Do you spit or do you swallow?.


----------



## jc456

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> It's very much about politics; the disastrous political consequences of Trump's incompetence and stupidity.


name something that he did that didn't benefit you?


----------



## jc456

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Or anyone else on the right, for that matter.


hysterical!!!!! post one anti american  statement made by trump?


----------



## jc456

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Wrong.
> 
> It's very much about politics; the disastrous political consequences of Trump's incompetence and stupidity.


such as, what is political about it?


----------



## L.K.Eder

lennypartiv said:


> But Trump actually won.


hahahahaha


----------



## healthmyths

C_Clayton_Jones 
So you prefer a lukewarm, middle of the road, politically correct life long politician like Biden?  Biden who has CAUSED your gas prices to increase 40% in six months.  Who has caused inflation to increase 74% in just 6 months?  2020 1.4% .   Today 5.4%





						Current US Inflation Rates: 2000-2022 | US Inflation Calculator
					

The annual inflation rate for the United States is 7.1% for the 12 months ended November 2022 after rising 7.7% previously, according to U.S. Labor Department data published Dec. 13. The next inflation update is scheduled for release on Jan. 12, 2023, at 8:30 a.m. ET. It will offer the rate of...




					www.usinflationcalculator.com
				



So that's your kind of president?


----------



## Turtlesoup

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> 
> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> Sarah K. Burris
> July 21, 2021
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.
> 
> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.
> 
> "I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> “There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020
> 
> Continued


Whose "WE" that Barr is supposedly referring to?  The swamp?


----------



## Winston

Death Angel said:


> This part was definitely NOT true as seen by the outpouringcofcsupport the Democrats can only dream of.
> 
> Trump got the highest voter turnout of any incumbent.  Yet Democrats would like us to believe BIDEN had more support than their own black messiah.


Yep, record voter turnout, TO VOTE TRUMP OUT.  Got to give it to him, he sure fire caused voter turnout to increase.  The highest increase, young people.


----------



## Winston

healthmyths said:


> C_Clayton_Jones
> So you prefer a lukewarm, middle of the road, politically correct life long politician like Biden?  Biden who has CAUSED your gas prices to increase 40% in six months.  Who has caused inflation to increase 74% in just 6 months?  2020 1.4% .   Today 5.4%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Current US Inflation Rates: 2000-2022 | US Inflation Calculator
> 
> 
> The annual inflation rate for the United States is 7.1% for the 12 months ended November 2022 after rising 7.7% previously, according to U.S. Labor Department data published Dec. 13. The next inflation update is scheduled for release on Jan. 12, 2023, at 8:30 a.m. ET. It will offer the rate of...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.usinflationcalculator.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So that's your kind of president?


Two trillion dollars, that is "trillion" with a "t".  That is how much money Americans socked away during Trump's Covid disaster.  Naturally, inflation is going to increase along with gas prices, as Americans start letting go of some of that cash.  That is not a poor reflection on Biden, it is a good reflection, he is getting Americans to spend again.


----------



## Winston

schmidlap said:


> Trump butt barnacles become hysterical whenever the most abject Trump toady fails to display groveling obeisance in all things Trump. Trump goons screeching _"Hang Mile Pence!"_ when they attacked Congress was a glaring example of the cult's fanaticism.
> 
> When one recalls all Trump's appointments (He only chooses the _best_ people) that he ended up whining about, it is a case study of a paranoid megalomaniac's monumental insecurity.
> 
> He's a loser.


I want to address Trump's intelligence.  A man's intelligence is not measured by what he knows, it is measured by what he knows he don't know.  Trump thinks he knows everything, which makes him a MORON.


----------



## playtime

surada said:


> Obama expelled 34 Russian diplomats from the US and shut down their compounds.



donny invites them into the oval office & gives them classified israeli intel.


----------



## playtime

DBA said:


> My wife is a physician and if Biden was her patient she would be treating him for dementia. He has all the signs. Only never-Trumpers are blind to it.


----------



## surada

BluesLegend said:


> I LMAO when Trump whooped Hillary's ass and millions of Dems cried.



Losing an election is the least of Trump's failures.





playtime said:


> donny invites them into the oval office & gives them classified israeli intel.



He wanted to impress the Russians and he wanted them to like him.. He's like an idiot child.


----------



## healthmyths

Winston 
A) Where is your PROOF Americans socked away $2 trillion???  No link. No substantiation!
B) You evidently are unaware that 25% of all oil comes from Federal lands and I (unlike you offer the link to prove that statement!
About a quarter (25%) of U.S. oil and an eighth of the nation's natural gas is produced on federal lands.








						Oil from federal lands tops 1B barrels as Trump eases rules
					

Oil production from federally-managed lands and waters topped a record 1 billion barrels last year




					abcnews.go.com
				



C) When Biden puts a moratorium on Federal oil leases, what do you expect to happen?  Prices go down???
Again  FACTS not guesses as you have done!
Americans should blame Biden, but not for the reason you might think. Biden's attack on U.S. energy producers, 
starting with *his freeze on federal oil and gas leases*, will assuredly take a toll on output down the road and cause prices at the pump to rise.


			As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden
		

See it just amazes me how truly dumb it is to make statements as you have without any links!
Why do you think anyone should believe YOUR subjective, uninformed statements?
Finally... Gas price today in USA  $3.152 /gal.......Gas prices a year ago..$2.182  almost a $1.00 more or 44%!
Again where is your proof? Tampa Gas Prices - Find Cheap Gas Prices in Florida
At least show some proof of your statements!


----------



## surada

healthmyths said:


> Winston
> A) Where is your PROOF Americans socked away $2 trillion???  No link. No substantiation!
> B) You evidently are unaware that 25% of all oil comes from Federal lands and I (unlike you offer the link to prove that statement!
> About a quarter (25%) of U.S. oil and an eighth of the nation's natural gas is produced on federal lands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oil from federal lands tops 1B barrels as Trump eases rules
> 
> 
> Oil production from federally-managed lands and waters topped a record 1 billion barrels last year
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abcnews.go.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C) When Biden puts a moratorium on Federal oil leases, what do you expect to happen?  Prices go down???
> Again  FACTS not guesses as you have done!
> Americans should blame Biden, but not for the reason you might think. Biden's attack on U.S. energy producers,
> starting with *his freeze on federal oil and gas leases*, will assuredly take a toll on output down the road and cause prices at the pump to rise.
> 
> 
> As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden
> 
> 
> See it just amazes me how truly dumb it is to make statements as you have without any links!
> Why do you think anyone should believe YOUR subjective, uninformed statements?
> Finally... Gas price today in USA  $3.152 /gal.......Gas prices a year ago..$2.182  almost a $1.00 more or 44%!
> Again where is your proof? Tampa Gas Prices - Find Cheap Gas Prices in Florida
> At least show some proof of your statements!
> View attachment 516359



OPEC just increased production .. and since Trump placed sanctions on oil from Venezuela we are now buying that amount from Russia.

If the ppb goes too low, domestic producers stop drilling and exploration or shut down altogether.

Cheap oil hurts the US oil producers in part because we have the highest lift costs in the world.


----------



## Lesh

jc456 said:


> hysterical!!!!! post one anti american  statement made by trump?


Taking the word of Putin over our own Intel agencies is about as anti-American as it gets


----------



## surada

Lesh said:


> Taking the word of Putin over our own Intel agencies is about as anti-American as it gets



Trump didn't read and he wouldn't listen to anyone.. so he said he was his own best advisor.

When he got an idea in his head he would double down on it no matter how wrong-headed he is/was. He's had that same problem since he was in college. That's why his professor said he was the dumbest GD student he ever had.


----------



## BluesLegend

surada said:


> Losing an election is the least of Trump's failures.
> 
> He wanted to impress the Russians and he wanted them to like him.. He's like an idiot child.


Call us when Trump loses one cheaters.


----------



## healthmyths

surada
Totally YOUR input!  Where is your link regarding Trump banning Venezuela oil?
Where is your PROOF regarding lift costs?
Who the hell do you think you are that WE all should just believe your subjective, unsubstantiated opinions?
Do some work for once and proof your statement!
_"The Trump administration did not directly ban imports of Venezuelan crude oil."_

So you lied!








						AP Explains: US sanctions to hit Venezuelan oil company
					

NEW YORK (AP) — The Trump administration has imposed sanctions on Venezuela's state-owned oil company, Petroleos de Venezuela SA, its harshest economic punishment to date against the government of President Nicolas Maduro, whom the U...




					apnews.com
				




The U.S. imports less than 500,000 barrels a day of Venezuelan crude, down from more than 1.2 million barrels a day in 2008, according to the Energy Information Administration.  though it now only supplies about* 6 percent of imports.








						AP Explains: US sanctions to hit Venezuelan oil company
					

NEW YORK (AP) — The Trump administration has imposed sanctions on Venezuela's state-owned oil company, Petroleos de Venezuela SA, its harshest economic punishment to date against the government of President Nicolas Maduro, whom the U...




					apnews.com
				



Surada... It took me less than 3 minutes to find the above!
Proof it!*


----------



## Turtlesoup

Winston said:


> Yep, record voter turnout, TO VOTE TRUMP OUT.  Got to give it to him, he sure fire caused voter turnout to increase.  The highest increase, young people.


Trump got a record number of voters---Biden got a corrupt a group of vote cheaters including the communist chinese, corrupt dems, swamp republicans, BLM terrorist volunteers at the voting precints.   

Biden lost more counties far more counties than Hilliary---there wasn't a bunch of people out voting against trump.   There was a massive record of vote cheating going in a handful of countries in swing states in order to steal the election.  

Your claims therefore are complete and utter BULLSHIT...


----------



## Clipper

jc456 said:


> then how did he receive 13 million more votes?  That isn't logical.
> 
> Oh wait,  you're saying that Barr was part of the cheat, he knew they were going to steal using mail in ballots that are fraudulent.  Gotcha


Biden won because he recieved more votes then Trump. Duh! And all your bullshit, lies, conspracy theories about mail in ballots, bamboo from China, Italian lasers & all the rest of the nonsense is not going to change that.

And Guiliani in court & conducting news conferences in front of porn shops looking like a monkey fucking a football didn't change anything either, did it? Give it up. 

Crying is permitted if it makes you feel better.


----------



## lennypartiv

Winston said:


> Yep, record voter turnout, TO VOTE TRUMP OUT.  Got to give it to him, he sure fire caused voter turnout to increase.  The highest increase, young people.


Why don't you mention the fraudulent votes?


----------



## 22lcidw

Winston said:


> Two trillion dollars, that is "trillion" with a "t".  That is how much money Americans socked away during Trump's Covid disaster.  Naturally, inflation is going to increase along with gas prices, as Americans start letting go of some of that cash.  That is not a poor reflection on Biden, it is a good reflection, he is getting Americans to spend again.


But it was the Progs and globalists who shut many states and nations down!


----------



## Mac1958

Clipper said:


> Biden won because he recieved more votes then Trump.


They will never admit that to you, because they will never admit it to themselves.

They just can't believe that the rest of the world doesn't adore the buffoon like they do.

This is a cult, in its truest sense.


----------



## jc456

Turtlesoup said:


> Whose "WE" that Barr is supposedly referring to?  The swamp?


Sure he got bought


----------



## Chillicothe

surada said:


> Trump is still giving interviews to all these authors. ....... he's getting sicker all the time.





surada said:


> They get all their interviews on tape.





Mac-7 said:


> Maybe but if it aint here it does not exist


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Speaking of that issue:  First, lemme say --Yes, it does exist.

Didja watch tonight's (7/23rd) episode of _*Washington Week *_on PBS?  (you can catch it on the internet. Google it.)
Two of the 5 guests were the authors of the recent book "*Only I Can Fix It*"....Leoning & Rucker.

Their comments were interesting.  As they described, Don Trump, sat down for 2 hours and 45 minutes with them.......recording tape running.
They played a segment of Mr. Trump's comments.
So, if some ....a select few.....don't believe that Don Trump said what these books are saying he said on tape......well, it's there.  
On tape.

Rucker described their impression after the interview.  It was, in his words,  "chilling".
Don Trump lives in an alternative reality. 
A reality stoked, combed, curated by a coterie of flatterers, fanboys, and hangers-on.

Leoning had an insightful observation:  Trump doesn't lead his followers. He caters and grooms them.  He knows they are his 'power'.....so he will not say things or take issues that he perceives they will be unhappy with (they used urging vaccines as an example)
His communications, his choice of issues is done simply to feed the base's prejudices and myths. 

OK, that makes sense.  I can see the through-line on that. 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Turtlesoup said:


> *"Biden got a corrupt a group of vote cheaters including the communist chinese, corrupt dems, swamp republicans, BLM terrorist volunteers at the voting precints."*



Well *Soup*, that is a pretty sopping crying-towel you've been watering for what?.....9months?
And I know your prolific avatar has been queried before, but let's saddle up again:  of all those_ Chinese,_ '_Corrupt Dems', Swamp Republicans,_ _BLM Terrorists_, that, as you say, cheated on the vote......well, mi amiga, how 'bout naming names?

Tell us who the miscreants were?  And how you know what you know.
Tell us what you've done to bring their names to the attention of authorities.

And, if you cannot credibly name names, positions, locations.....well, partner, my poor avatar is gonna call your poor avatar......a fake and a phony. 
All hat. 
No cows.

No disrespect intended.


----------



## jc456

Chillicothe said:


> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Speaking of that issue:  First, lemme say --Yes, it does exist.
> 
> Didja watch tonight's (7/23rd) episode of _*Washington Week *_on PBS?  (you can catch it on the internet. Google it.)
> Two of the 5 guests were the authors of the recent book "*Only I Can Fix It*"....Leoning & Rucker.
> 
> Their comments were interesting.  As they described, Don Trump, sat down for 2 hours and 45 minutes with them.......recording tape running.
> They played a segment of Mr. Trump's comments.
> So, if some ....a select few.....don't believe that Don Trump said what these books are saying he said on tape......well, it's there.
> On tape.
> 
> Rucker described their impression after the interview.  It was, in his words,  "chilling".
> Don Trump lives in an alternative reality.
> A reality stoked, combed, curated by a coterie of flatterers, fanboys, and hangers-on.
> 
> Leoning had an insightful observation:  Trump doesn't lead his followers. He caters and grooms them.  He knows they are his 'power'.....so he will not say things or take issues that he perceives they will be unhappy with (they used urging vaccines as an example)
> His communications, his choice of issues is done simply to feed the base's prejudices and myths.
> 
> OK, that makes sense.  I can see the through-line on that.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> Well *Soup*, that is a pretty sopping crying-towel you've been watering for what?.....9months?
> And I know your prolific avatar has been queried before, but let's saddle up again:  of all those_ Chinese,_ '_Corrupt Dems', Swamp Republicans,_ _BLM Terrorists_, that, as you say, cheated on the vote......well, mi amiga, how 'bout naming names?
> 
> Tell us who the miscreants were?  And how you know what you know.
> Tell us what you've done to bring their names to the attention of authorities.
> 
> And, if you cannot credibly name names, positions, locations.....well, partner, my poor avatar is gonna call your poor avatar......a fake and a phony.
> All hat.
> No cows.
> 
> No disrespect intended.


A reality in your brain!!! Hahaha


----------



## Winston

healthmyths said:


> Winston
> A) Where is your PROOF Americans socked away $2 trillion???  No link. No substantiation!
> B) You evidently are unaware that 25% of all oil comes from Federal lands and I (unlike you offer the link to prove that statement!
> About a quarter (25%) of U.S. oil and an eighth of the nation's natural gas is produced on federal lands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oil from federal lands tops 1B barrels as Trump eases rules
> 
> 
> Oil production from federally-managed lands and waters topped a record 1 billion barrels last year
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abcnews.go.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C) When Biden puts a moratorium on Federal oil leases, what do you expect to happen?  Prices go down???
> Again  FACTS not guesses as you have done!
> Americans should blame Biden, but not for the reason you might think. Biden's attack on U.S. energy producers,
> starting with *his freeze on federal oil and gas leases*, will assuredly take a toll on output down the road and cause prices at the pump to rise.
> 
> 
> As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden
> 
> 
> See it just amazes me how truly dumb it is to make statements as you have without any links!
> Why do you think anyone should believe YOUR subjective, uninformed statements?
> Finally... Gas price today in USA  $3.152 /gal.......Gas prices a year ago..$2.182  almost a $1.00 more or 44%!
> Again where is your proof? Tampa Gas Prices - Find Cheap Gas Prices in Florida
> At least show some proof of your statements


LMAO.  Thank you for providing a perfect example of an uninformed Trump supporter  You probably watch FOX news, even peruse those right leaning websites.  You are the trained parrot that the real controllers of this country have trained like seals.  Me, I am just a simple old redneck living in the sticks,  But I didn't fall of the turnip truck yesterday.  I just listen to NPR and use this here internet with some common sense.  First, you documentation to the two trillion.









						U.S. banks are 'swimming in money' as deposits increase by $2 trillion amid the coronavirus
					

The wall of money flowing into banks has no precedent in history: in April alone, deposits grew by $865 billion, more than the previous record for an entire year.




					www.cnbc.com
				




Now that was more than a year ago.  The savings rate set all time records in April of last year.  I mean that tells a well trained economist a bunch, the significance is April.  And it is not a good mark for Trump.  Throwing out government cash, and the people decide to throw it in the savings account?  Wow, that is some real leadership.

And now, I got to get to the oil lease bullshit.  Gas prices are higher because PEOPLE AIN'T SCARED TO LEAVE THE HOUSE NO MORE.  I mean deyam.  The oil leases?  Enough of that bullshit.


Shebam.  I mean hell, Biden is approving at a higher rate than Trump.  Which kind of blows that gas price theory all to shit.  As if approving, or not approving, leases on government land is going to impact price.  Such an amateur belief.


----------



## Mac-7

Chillicothe said:


> Didja watch tonight's (7/23rd) episode of _*Washington Week *_on PBS? (you can catch it on the internet. Google it.)
> Two of the 5 guests were the authors of the recent book "*Only I Can Fix It*"....Leoning & Rucker.


Just for you I did watch the PBS program pn 7/23

the two libs who wrote the book had pretty bad impressions of trump

But the audio clip of his own words was not damning at all

at one point carol leonnig referred to trump “stoking suspicion” of the vaccine and that is just a flat out lie


----------



## Chillicothe

jc456 said:


> *A reality in your brain!!! Hahaha*


OK, but what did you think of the PBS show Washington Week's episode with the authors of "Only I Can Fix It"?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mac-7 said:


> *".....trump “stoking suspicion” of the vaccine and that is just a flat out lie..."*


No it is not.
As Leoning noted Don Trump spent oodles of bandwidth/time/energy to denigrate and discount the established medical authorities who were striving diligently to produce a safe vaccine....and once they got it he continued to trash 'em.   

And, as Leoning also noted....Don Trump wanted to hog all credit for the eventual development of a vaccine that happened on his watch (on a vaccine framework long in existence)....yet, Don Trump has been luke-warm, shy, mostly silent in urging his followers to get out there and aggressively seek getting vaccinated.

**Just think what the effect would be if he was pro-active in that area? 
 Used his immense bully-pulpit to persuade his base that getting vaccinated is good for them, their loved ones, and the society they benefit from.*

First, of course, he would piss off the more ignorant Luddites within his base;
But, more importantly, there could be millions more who would go get their shots.

But see, Don Trump is afraid of that first part......pissing off the Luddites.


----------



## healthmyths

Winston 
Again no facts...
Biden Halts Oil and Gas Leases, Permits on US Land and Water​The Biden administration has suspended new oil and gas leasing and drilling permits on U.S. lands and waters for 60 days as officials move to reverse the energy and environmental policies of the Trump administration.


			https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2021-01-21/biden-suspends-new-oil-and-gas-leases-permits-for-60-days


----------



## Mac-7

Chillicothe said:


> Leoning noted Don Trump spent oodles of bandwidth/time/energy to denigrate and discount the established medical authorities who were striving diligently to produce a safe vaccine....


Bullshit

the “established medical authorities” that trump clashed with were  fauci amd Scarf Lady who never developed a vaccine in their lives

trump fast tracked the new vaccines and had them available before biden took office


----------



## jc456

Winston said:


> LMAO.  Thank you for providing a perfect example of an uninformed Trump supporter  You probably watch FOX news, even peruse those right leaning websites.  You are the trained parrot that the real controllers of this country have trained like seals.  Me, I am just a simple old redneck living in the sticks,  But I didn't fall of the turnip truck yesterday.  I just listen to NPR and use this here internet with some common sense.  First, you documentation to the two trillion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. banks are 'swimming in money' as deposits increase by $2 trillion amid the coronavirus
> 
> 
> The wall of money flowing into banks has no precedent in history: in April alone, deposits grew by $865 billion, more than the previous record for an entire year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now that was more than a year ago.  The savings rate set all time records in April of last year.  I mean that tells a well trained economist a bunch, the significance is April.  And it is not a good mark for Trump.  Throwing out government cash, and the people decide to throw it in the savings account?  Wow, that is some real leadership.
> 
> And now, I got to get to the oil lease bullshit.  Gas prices are higher because PEOPLE AIN'T SCARED TO LEAVE THE HOUSE NO MORE.  I mean deyam.  The oil leases?  Enough of that bullshit.
> 
> 
> Shebam.  I mean hell, Biden is approving at a higher rate than Trump.  Which kind of blows that gas price theory all to shit.  As if approving, or not approving, leases on government land is going to impact price.  Such an amateur belief.


So the opposite of what the relief money was intended? Stimulating the economy was what you all said was needed. You’re now saying people deposited it? Hahaha make your minds up


----------



## healthmyths

Chillicothe 
There are valid reasons why "EVERYONE" shouldn't get vaccinated.
Now I think more people should, but are specific cases where it would do more harm then good.
*Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS)* is an inflammatory polyradiculoneuropathy associated with numerous viral infections. Recently, there have been many case reports describing the association between coronavirus disease-2019 (COVID-19) and GBS, but much remains unknown about the strength of the association and the features of GBS in this setting.








						COVID-19-associated Guillain-Barré syndrome: The early pandemic experience - PubMed
					

Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) is an inflammatory polyradiculoneuropathy associated with numerous viral infections. Recently, there have been many case reports describing the association between coronavirus disease-2019 (COVID-19) and GBS, but much remains unknown about the strength of the...




					pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				



Student with Guillain-Barre syndrome, 18, is DENIED admission to BYU-Hawaii and loses $200k scholarship for refusing to get COVID vaccine after doctors said it could worsen her condition​








						Incoming freshman loses scholarship over covid vaccine concerns
					

Olivia Sandor says was denied admission to Brigham Young University-Hawaii after requesting exemption from the school's COVID-19 vaccine requirement due to a medical condition.




					www.dailymail.co.uk
				




Or are people who want EVERYONE to be vaccinated racists??  Are you?
COVID-19 vaccine: Institutional racism, distrust will have some NBA players wary​








						COVID-19 vaccine: Institutional racism, distrust will have some NBA players wary
					

The league has certainly become aware of these generational issues and rightful distrust in recent time. The hope is its own independent infectious disease specialists — along with those in the union — would build on the existing trust between the two sides that has been forged through the pandemic.




					sports.yahoo.com
				




And finally, Trump like millions of us believe that the individual has a right to make life-or-death decisions..."it's my body"!
If that is OK for abortion supporters, what is the distinction?


----------



## jc456

Chillicothe said:


> *Just think what the effect would be if he was pro-active in that area?
> Used his immense bully-pulpit to persuade his base that getting vaccinated is good for them, their loved ones, and the society they benefit from


So he got vaccinated! We still won’t, we must not follow him.


----------



## Winston

jc456 said:


> So the opposite of what the relief money was intended? Stimulating the economy was what you all said was needed. You’re now saying people deposited it? Hahaha make your minds up


Spending money to stimulate the economy, and saving money from those stimulus checks are not mutually exclusive.  The reality is both happened.  And the wealth gap just got larger.  Besides, it was the federal addition to unemployment that was, and to some extent, still is, stimulating the economy,  Much more efficiently than those Covid checks


----------



## jc456

Winston said:


> Spending money to stimulate the economy, and saving money from those stimulus checks are not mutually exclusive.  The reality is both happened.  And the wealth gap just got larger.  Besides, it was the federal addition to unemployment that was, and to some extent, still is, stimulating the economy,  Much more efficiently than those Covid checks


Sure it did, ta da huh? Too fking funny


----------



## DBA

Winston said:


> I mean hell, Biden is approving at a higher rate than Trump.



Give people “free” stuff and they tend to like you.  Democrats have been buying votes for years. It has reached new heights during the COVID era.




Winston said:


> Besides, it was the federal addition to unemployment that was, and to some extent, still is, stimulating the economy, Much more efficiently than those Covid checks



Increased unemployment, along with further handouts in the form of refundable child tax credits(free money) for those that don’t even pay taxes, is creating more and more dependency and is only a short term boost and a long-term detriment.


----------



## cnm

marvin martian said:


> There's no point "denying" an anonymous source.


Yet you did it anyway. 

Kudos.


----------



## Mac1958

surada said:


> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. *"I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."*


I would disagree with Barr on this point.

No President has ever been more in touch with his base than this guy.  He has spoken exclusively to, and served exclusively, his base for five solid, uninterrupted years.   This is a relationship this country has never seen.  The world too, for that matter.  There was no talk radio or internet in the 30's/40's back then to push this.

And that's the problem for that party.


----------



## dudmuck

Mac1958 said:


> I would disagree with Barr on this point.
> 
> No President has ever been more in touch with his base than this guy.  He has spoken exclusively to, and served exclusively, his base for five solid, uninterrupted years.   This is a relationship this country has never seen.  The world too, for that matter.  There was no talk radio or internet in the 30's/40's back then to push this.
> 
> And that's the problem for that party.


i agree, but for a president to win, he needs more than his base.

Trump lost because he failed to gain with independents and the suburbs, and younger voters.









						Biden broadened Democratic base, cut into Trump coalition: study
					

A new study of 2020 voters found that President Biden expanded the Democratic base by attracting newer and younger voters while blunting former President Trump’s advantages among key groups that ha…




					thehill.com


----------



## DBA

Mac1958 said:


> He has spoken exclusively to, and served exclusively, his base for five solid, uninterrupted years.



Assuming you are a working American, his policies were likely helping you.  Biden’s policies are not, you just can’t see that because you are still stuck on hating everything Trump, the man.


----------



## Mac1958

dudmuck said:


> i agree, but for a president to win, he needs more than his base.
> 
> Trump lost because he failed to gain with independents and the suburbs, and younger voters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biden broadened Democratic base, cut into Trump coalition: study
> 
> 
> A new study of 2020 voters found that President Biden expanded the Democratic base by attracting newer and younger voters while blunting former President Trump’s advantages among key groups that ha…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thehill.com


Well, there are two sides to this.  We know Trump's base would show up to vote, 100%.  

Will the Dems get out the vote again?  I don't know that.


----------



## DBA

Mac1958 said:


> Will the Dems get out the vote again? I don't know that.



If the Democrats get their way with the voting changes, they won’t have to. The permanent fix will be in.


----------



## colfax_m

DBA said:


> Assuming you are a working American, his policies were likely helping you.  Biden’s policies are not, you just can’t see that because you are still stuck on hating everything Trump, the man.


Americans seem to disagree. 








						Americans' Life Ratings Reach Record High
					

An estimated 59.2% of U.S. adults rate their lives well enough to be categorized as "thriving" exceeding the previous record-high estimate of 57.3% from 2017.




					news.gallup.com


----------



## Winston

DBA said:


> Give people “free” stuff and they tend to like you.  Democrats have been buying votes for years. It has reached new heights during the COVID era.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Increased unemployment, along with further handouts in the form of refundable child tax credits(free money) for those that don’t even pay taxes, is creating more and more dependency and is only a short term boost and a long-term detriment.


Free stuff uh.  Well not really seeing much difference in Democrats handing out "free stuff" and Republicans handing out tax cuts paid for with borrowed money.  The one difference I do see is Republicans seemed really consumed with what other people do and want to dictate to them what they can and cannot do.

That increased unemployment is what keep the economy going through the roughest part of Covid.  Without it, supply chains in whole industries would have been severely damaged.  And those refundable tax credits are going to pull millions of children out of poverty.  Not a long term detriment, but a real investment in our country's future, not unlike the best investment this country ever made, the GI bill after WWII.


----------



## jc456

DBA said:


> Give people “free” stuff and they tend to like you.  Democrats have been buying votes for years. It has reached new heights during the COVID era.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Increased unemployment, along with further handouts in the form of refundable child tax credits(free money) for those that don’t even pay taxes, is creating more and more dependency and is only a short term boost and a long-term detriment.


Now they’re going to manipulate the supply chain!!


----------



## jc456

colfax_m said:


> Americans seem to disagree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Americans' Life Ratings Reach Record High
> 
> 
> An estimated 59.2% of U.S. adults rate their lives well enough to be categorized as "thriving" exceeding the previous record-high estimate of 57.3% from 2017.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.gallup.com


Stupid manipulated polls


----------



## dblack

Manonthestreet said:


> And yet he increased his vote percentage to a degree that no President running for reelection who has done same has ever lost......makes ya go hhhhhmmmm


It sure as fuck does.


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> Stupid manipulated polls


People being happy really pisses you off, huh.


----------



## colfax_m

dblack said:


> It sure as fuck does.


Every election is unique. With a polarizing figure such as Trump, it’s perfectly rational.


----------



## dblack

colfax_m said:


> Every election is unique. With a polarizing figure such as Trump, it’s perfectly rational.


I knew we're in real trouble after talking to several thirty-something voters years ago, who had supported Ron Paul, and were now backing Bernie Sanders. And it wasn't a change of ideology in their view. They saw no contradiction. 

That kind of ignorant populism is what made a Trump presidency possible


----------



## jc456

colfax_m said:


> People being happy really pisses you off, huh.


people posting polls that think 1000  people speak for a million means something makes me laugh.


----------



## Mac-7

Mac1958 said:


> I would disagree with Barr on this point.


You are debating a lie

or at best an unproven rumor

there is no evidence that Barr said what your side claims he said


----------



## jc456

Mac-7 said:


> You are debating a lie
> 
> or at best an unproven rumor
> 
> there is no evidence that Barr said what your side claims he said


demofks believe everything they hear.


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> people posting polls that think 1000  people speak for a million means something makes me laugh.


It’s genuinely sad to see someone like yourself demand that other people be miserable as you are.


----------



## jc456

colfax_m said:


> It’s genuinely sad to see someone like yourself demand that other people be miserable as you are.


you're miserable if you don't see polls?  wow. I'm quite a happy man.  I owe no one and expect nothing.  I demand respect, I expect respect, I give it out.  I respect your right to be whatever you want to be, you don't return that respect at all.  You seem compelled to expect others to be like you.  that's sad.


----------



## Bush92

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> 
> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> Sarah K. Burris
> July 21, 2021
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.
> 
> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.
> 
> "I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> “There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020
> 
> Continued


Sure. Coming from a acrimonious mouthpiece. You're working for China correct?


----------



## Bush92

dblack said:


> It sure as fuck does.


Democrats are all about stealing elections.


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> you're miserable if you don't see polls?  wow. I'm quite a happy man.  I owe no one and expect nothing.  I demand respect, I expect respect, I give it out.  I respect your right to be whatever you want to be, you don't return that respect at all.  You seem compelled to expect others to be like you.  that's sad.


I’m not miserable at all and neither are most Americans. 

Glad to hear you aren’t miserable either. 

It’s good being in Biden’s America.


----------



## surada

Bush92 said:


> Sure. Coming from a acrimonious mouthpiece. You're working for China correct?



Nope.. I was appalled when Trump's tariffs on soybeans ruined our farmers  in South Carolina.

Now China is buying ALL their soybeans from Brazil.. Trump also put sanctions on Venezuelan oil so now we buy all that from Russia.


----------



## Turtlesoup

Clipper said:


> Biden won because he recieved more votes then Trump. Duh! And all your bullshit, lies, conspracy theories about mail in ballots, bamboo from China, Italian lasers & all the rest of the nonsense is not going to change that.
> 
> And Guiliani in court & conducting news conferences in front of porn shops looking like a monkey fucking a football didn't change anything either, did it? Give it up.
> 
> Crying is permitted if it makes you feel better.


Biden won because his communist chinese group cheated their asses off...


----------



## Flash

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> 
> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> Sarah K. Burris
> July 21, 2021
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.
> 
> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.
> 
> "I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> “There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020
> 
> Continued


  Barr was a disgrace and traitor to his country.  A member of good standing of the Swamp.

He never did prosecute the shitheads that falsified information on Trump and he didn't do jackshit about the Negroes and Communists that spent six months burning down and looting this country.  I didn't see him do anything about the massive Democrats ballot fraud that allowed the goddamn Democrat pieces of corrupt shit steal the 2020 election.

He is the one that embarrassed himself.  Trump was a great President and did not deserved to be undermined by the Democrat Dirty Tricks Department and the Swamp.

By the way Ed Markey is a scumbag and anything he says is worthless.


----------



## dblack

Bush92 said:


> Democrats are all about stealing elections.


And bigfoot is real. Got it.


----------



## jc456

colfax_m said:


> I’m not miserable at all and neither are most Americans.
> 
> Glad to hear you aren’t miserable either.
> 
> It’s good being in Biden’s America.


he owns nothing, it is my countrypeoples america, Xiden is hampered in China's moves. That's a sad place to be, he ought to be helping americans instead.


----------



## Claudette

Meathead 
Nonsense is right. Trump has 75 million supporters. Not bad for someone the Op says would lose.

Biden won with 80 million?? 

Anyone who believes that is dumber than a box of rocks.


----------



## Lesh

Claudette said:


> Meathead
> Nonsense is right. Trump has 75 million supporters. Not bad for someone the Op says would lose.
> 
> Biden won with 80 million??
> 
> Anyone who believes that is dumber than a box of rocks.


You believe Trump had 75 million voters but don't believe that Biden had 80?

Based on what?

The fact that you love Trump a lot?

Ohhh...


----------



## Claudette

Lesh
Oh Trump did have 75 million supporters and still does.

You actually believe 80 million people voted for Biden?? If you do you are lying to yourself. The only way he got 80 million votes is if every mail in ballot was for him. What' the chances of that??

80 million voted for that stuttering fuck?? A guy who never campaigned. And when he did get out of his bunker he got a handful of supporters to listen to his rambling??  

I'll just stand over here and LMFAO.


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> he owns nothing, it is my countrypeoples america, Xiden is hampered in China's moves. That's a sad place to be, he ought to be helping americans instead.


Is it a sad peace to be? Most people, including yourself, are quite happy!


----------



## Lesh

Claudette said:


> The only way he got 80 million votes is if every mail in ballot was for him.


That's not even close to true


Claudette said:


> What' the chances of that??


Since it was a false claim in the first place...who cares? 

You seem to be one of those Trump Humpers that think that rallies translate directly into votes. That's a suspect assumption in the best of times and utterly ridiculous in the middle of a pandemic


----------



## jc456

colfax_m said:


> Is it a sad peace to be? Most people, including yourself, are quite happy!


i know BLM isn't helping any blacks, that's sad, Xiden does nothing.  I'm happy, I doubt the blacks are.  How many died this weekend in Chicago that xiden ignored?


----------



## jc456

Lesh said:


> You believe Trump had 75 million voters but don't believe that Biden had 80?
> 
> Based on what?
> 
> The fact that you love Trump a lot?
> 
> Ohhh...


previous elections.


----------



## Lesh

jc456 said:


> previous elections.


Previous elections are not a predictor of future elections

And oh yea...we never held an election in a pandemic before


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> i know BLM isn't helping any blacks, that's sad, Xiden does nothing.  I'm happy, I doubt the blacks are.  How many died this weekend in Chicago that xiden ignored?


Looks like you’re hoping people are miserable. 

How petty.


----------



## jc456

Lesh said:


> Previous elections are not a predictor of future elections
> 
> And oh yea...we never held an election in a pandemic before


sure it does, it provides the percentage of voters voting.


----------



## jc456

colfax_m said:


> Looks like you’re hoping people are miserable.
> 
> How petty.


I live in chicago and they're on the tellie every night asking for help that you and xiden ignore.  You won't even give them school vouchers to improve their educations.  you all are demofk kkkers.


----------



## Lesh

jc456 said:


> sure it does, it provides the percentage of voters voting.


A PREVIOUS election does that?

Not at all. As events, candidates, and enthusiasm varies from election election so does turnout









						Voter turnout in United States presidential elections - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## jc456

Lesh said:


> A PREVIOUS election does that?


You bet


----------



## Lesh

jc456 said:


> You bet


I just showed you that it does NOT. How stupid are you?


----------



## MadChemist

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> 
> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> Sarah K. Burris
> July 21, 2021
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.
> 
> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.
> 
> "I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> “There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020
> 
> Continued


----------



## surada

MadChemist said:


> View attachment 517665



Really? That explains a lot.


----------



## surada

Mac-7 said:


> I doubt that anything exists anywhere
> 
> But has to on this thread











						As Coronavirus spread, 430,000 people arrived in US on direct flights from China: NYT
					

Over 1,300 direct flights from China to 17 US cities brought back hundreds of thousands of people before President Donald Trump imposed travel restrictions. 'Since Chinese officials disclosed the outbreak of a mysterious pneumonia-like illness to international health officials on New Year's eve...




					www.oneindia.com


----------



## Arresmillao

Flash said:


> Barr was a disgrace and traitor to his country.  A member of good standing of the Swamp.
> 
> He never did prosecute the shitheads that falsified information on Trump and he didn't do jackshit about the Negroes and Communists that spent six months burning down and looting this country.  I didn't see him do anything about the massive Democrats ballot fraud that allowed the goddamn Democrat pieces of corrupt shit steal the 2020 election.
> 
> He is the one that embarrassed himself.  Trump was a great President and did not deserved to be undermined by the Democrat Dirty Tricks Department and the Swamp.
> 
> By the way Ed Markey is a scumbag and anything he says is worthless.


*you are dumb...*


----------



## Claudette

Lesh 
Of course you don't care. You voted for that incompetent ass and he shows just how incompetent he is every day.


----------



## Colin norris

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> 
> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> Sarah K. Burris
> July 21, 2021
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.
> 
> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.
> 
> "I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> “There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020
> 
> Continued



I have been  bellowing this for a while. 
It was trumps own supporters who chucked him out. His narcissistic  sociopath attitude wouldnt let him believe it. He does now.


----------



## Dragonlady

Flash said:


> Barr was a disgrace and traitor to his country.  A member of good standing of the Swamp.
> 
> He never did prosecute the shitheads that falsified information on Trump and he didn't do jackshit about the Negroes and Communists that spent six months burning down and looting this country.  I didn't see him do anything about the massive Democrats ballot fraud that allowed the goddamn Democrat pieces of corrupt shit steal the 2020 election.
> 
> He is the one that embarrassed himself.  Trump was a great President and did not deserved to be undermined by the Democrat Dirty Tricks Department and the Swamp.
> 
> By the way Ed Markey is a scumbag and anything he says is worthless.



*So much butthurt with this one.

Barr bent over for Donald Trump on EVERYTHING he possibly could, but you can't prosecute people with no evidence.  Nobody "falsified information on Trump".  9 people were convicted on the information you claim is all "lies".

Even if they did lie about Trump, it's not illegal to lie about candidates, or to make shit up about them.  Trump does it all of the time.  Look at all of the lies he told about Hillary.  If lying about the other candidate was illegal, Trump would be in jail right now for the lies he told about Hillary.

As for the demonstrations and the violence that happened, maybe DONALD TRUMP shouldn't have cancelled all of the police reform measures undertaking during the Obama Administration.  Maybe Donald Trump should have DONE SOMETHING about all of the police shootings of black people instead of telling cops not to be so "gentle" arresting people.

People have the legal right to protest.  TRUMP WAS PRESIDENT.  WHY DIDN'T HE DO SOMETHING?????  Aside from the fact that Trump is a useless asshole, that is.

Trump is and was a lying piece of shit and the worst President in history.  The country is well rid of him.*


----------



## Dragonlady

Claudette said:


> Lesh
> Of course you don't care. You voted for that incompetent ass and he shows just how incompetent he is every day.



*Well there is a thoughtful and well reasoned criticism.  

You voted for the very definition of "incompetent", twice.  You voted for the guy who killed 500,000 people with his incompetence.  Who crashed the economy with his incompetence.  The guy with a 92% turnover rate.  Who had 5 of his cabinet members referred for criminal prosecution.

It will take a generation to clean up the mess made by the incompetence of Donald Trump.  *


----------



## Claudette

Dragonlady 

Well for someone YOU call incompetent. Trump did a great job for America.. Before the very convenient Chinese virus, UE was the lowest it had been in 50 years. We had jobs all across this country and a great economy. This country was doing great.

Not bad for "incompetent." Doubt you will see the same with Biden. He's already made a mess of the border. A border Trump had handled quite well. 

That incompetent fuck has let thousands of illegals into America. Illegals that cost we tax payers billions every year. Hell he's having them flown and bussed all over the country. 

Biden reeks of incompetence.


----------



## Dragonlady

Claudette said:


> Dragonlady
> 
> Well for someone YOU call incompetent. Trump did a great job for America.. Before the very convenient Chinese virus, UE was the lowest it had been in 50 years. We had jobs all across this country and a great economy. This country was doing great.
> 
> Not bad for "incompetent." Doubt you will see the same with Biden. He's already made a mess of the border. A border Trump had handled quite well.
> 
> That incompetent fuck has let thousands of illegals into America. Illegals that cost we tax payers billions every year. Hell he's having them flown and bussed all over the country.
> 
> Biden reeks of incompetence.



Obama did all of heavy lifting on the Unemployment rate, reducing it from over 10%, to 4.8%.  When he took office, the economy was shedding 500,000 jobs per month, and the unemployment rate was 10%.  It was 8% at the end of his first term, and 4.8% when he left office.  A total reduction of 5.2% over 8 years, with the UE rate coming down 3.2% in his second term.

You can see the EU reduction starting to plateau BEFORE the pandemic sent it soaring.









						Civilian unemployment rate
					






					www.bls.gov
				




From the moment Trump took office, the economy started to slow.  Fewer jobs were created.  GDP growth was lower under Trump than Obama:






						U.S. GDP Growth Rate 1961-2022
					

Annual percentage growth rate of GDP at market prices based on constant local currency. Aggregates are based on constant 2010 U.S. dollars. GDP is the sum of gross value added by all resident producers in the economy plus any product taxes and minus any subsidies not included in the value of the...




					www.macrotrends.net
				




So don't try to con me with Trump's bullshit lies about the economy.  Obama more than doubled the stock market in his first term, and he tripled it by the end of his second term.  Under Trump it went up 50% in his first term.  Half of the growth it had under Obama.









						Dow Jones - DJIA - 100 Year Historical Chart
					

Interactive chart of the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) stock market index for the last 100 years. Historical data is inflation-adjusted using the headline CPI and each data point represents the month-end closing value. The current month is updated on an hourly basis with today's latest value.




					www.macrotrends.net


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> sure it does, it provides the percentage of voters voting.


If they’re not voting, they’re not voters.

The percentage of voters voting is always 100%.


----------



## jc456

colfax_m said:


> If they’re not voting, they’re not voters.
> 
> The percentage of voters voting is always 100%.


yep, so how do you get more?


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> yep, so how do you get more?


By getting more eligible voters to become voters. 

And that’s exactly what we did.


----------



## Claudette

Dragonlady 
Obama left Trump a fair hand but Trump improved on it. I give both men credit. Something YOU will never do. Dumbass.

UE and the economy were in the toilet for most of Barry's time as POTUS. Hell he was too busy hanging his Obamacare around the necks of the American tax payer to even look at the economy or UE. 

Trump did a great job as POTUS and I sure hope America can survive four years of the stuttering fuck you think is so great. 

Funny how you bring up Obama. Hell he even said Biden was useless and would fuck up a wet dream. Boy was he right.


----------



## Lesh

Claudette said:


> Dragonlady
> 
> Well for someone YOU call incompetent. Trump did a great job for America.. Before the very convenient Chinese virus, UE was the lowest it had been in 50 years. We had jobs all across this country and a great economy. This country was doing great.
> 
> Not bad for "incompetent." Doubt you will see the same with Biden. He's already made a mess of the border. A border Trump had handled quite well.
> 
> That incompetent fuck has let thousands of illegals into America. Illegals that cost we tax payers billions every year. Hell he's having them flown and bussed all over the country.
> 
> Biden reeks of incompetence.


Hey Dopey...

All Trump did was not fuck up the economy...until he did. And then he fucked it up massively


----------



## Care4all

Manonthestreet said:


> And yet he increased his vote percentage to a degree that no President running for reelection who has done same has ever lost......makes ya go hhhhhmmmm


But that's not true!  He didn't increase his vote PERCENTAGE between him and the democratic candidate.

Out of the votes cast in 2016 between him and Clinton, he got 48.89% of the votes.

Out of the votes cast in 2020 between Trump and Biden, he got 47.74% of those votes.


----------



## jc456

colfax_m said:


> By getting more eligible voters to become voters.
> 
> And that’s exactly what we did.


hmmm that's what an audit would determine, if that indeed happened or not.  There are specific procedures that appear to be in question, by 60 poll workers.  What is so difficult for you demofks to understand?


----------



## jc456

Care4all said:


> But that's not true!  He didn't increase his vote PERCENTAGE between him and the democratic candidate.
> 
> Out of the votes cast in 2016 between him and Clinton, he got 48.89% of the votes.
> 
> Out of the votes cast in 2020 between Trump and Biden, he got 47.74% of those votes.


and yet he received 13 million more votes in 2020, where did they come from?


----------



## jc456

surada said:


> As Coronavirus spread, 430,000 people arrived in US on direct flights from China: NYT
> 
> 
> Over 1,300 direct flights from China to 17 US cities brought back hundreds of thousands of people before President Donald Trump imposed travel restrictions. 'Since Chinese officials disclosed the outbreak of a mysterious pneumonia-like illness to international health officials on New Year's eve...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.oneindia.com


one india?  hahahahahaahahahaha


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> hmmm that's what an audit would determine, if that indeed happened or not.  There are specific procedures that appear to be in question, by 60 poll workers.  What is so difficult for you demofks to understand?


Audits ready occurred. The procedures were thorough and robust.


----------



## surada

jc456 said:


> one india?  hahahahahaahahahaha




Did you read the same story from Fox News?

Some 430,000 people flew from China to US after ...








						Some 430,000 people flew from China to US after coronavirus first detected: report
					

About 430,000 people have flown on direct flights from China to the United States since Chinese officials first disclosed the outbreak of a mysterious pneumonia-like illness to world health officials on New Year’s Eve, according to a new report published Saturday.




					www.foxnews.com
				



Apr 05, 2020 · About 430,000 people have flown on direct flights from China to the United States since Chinese officials first disclosed the outbreak of a mysterious pneumonia-like illness to world health ...


----------



## basquebromance

If you miss Trump, turn on MSNBC for minute-by-minute updates.


----------



## Claudette

Lesh
Hey stupid.

Trump improved the economy by doing what he did. Hell this country was in great shape before the very convenient Chines virus.

Too bad you're to biased to realize how great this country was with Trump at the helm.

Hope you aren't thinking you will get the same with Biden cause you sure as hell won't.


----------



## Lesh

Claudette said:


> Lesh
> Hey stupid.
> 
> Trump improved the economy by doing what he did. Hell this country was in great shape before the very convenient Chines virus.
> 
> Too bad you're to biased to realize how great this country was with Trump at the helm.
> 
> Hope you aren't thinking you will get the same with Biden cause you sure as hell won't.


Thanks for your stupid and totally biased opinion.

It's worth shit


----------



## Lesh

surada said:


> Did you read the same story from Fox News?
> 
> Some 430,000 people flew from China to US after ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some 430,000 people flew from China to US after coronavirus first detected: report
> 
> 
> About 430,000 people have flown on direct flights from China to the United States since Chinese officials first disclosed the outbreak of a mysterious pneumonia-like illness to world health officials on New Year’s Eve, according to a new report published Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apr 05, 2020 · About 430,000 people have flown on direct flights from China to the United States since Chinese officials first disclosed the outbreak of a mysterious pneumonia-like illness to world health ...


And none were quarantined


----------



## surada

Lesh said:


> And none were quarantined



Exactly.. None were quarantined.. and another 40,000 arrived after Trump shut is down.


----------



## Lesh

surada said:


> Exactly.. None were quarantined.. and another 40,000 arrived after Trump shut is down.


Who were also not quarantined


----------



## Claudette

Lesh 
Not as much as yours idiot. LOL


----------



## jc456

colfax_m said:


> Audits ready occurred. The procedures were thorough and robust.


not for what was reported, and hence the forensic audit.  You know, actually look at the physical ballot and ensure it was mailed out.  you know, had folds consistent with other ballots?  We know there were ballots not folded.  how many is the wait.


----------



## jc456

Lesh said:


> Thanks for your stupid and totally biased opinion.
> 
> It's worth shit


like yours.


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> not for what was reported, and hence the forensic audit. You know, actually look at the physical ballot and ensure it was mailed out. you know, had folds consistent with other ballots? We know there were ballots not folded. how many is the wait.


Every ballot was inspected by poll workers and observers. You have a fringe conspiracy, not reality.


----------



## jc456

colfax_m said:


> Every ballot was inspected by poll workers and observers. You have a fringe conspiracy, not reality.


Yep and unfolded ballots were counted, that’s what we now know!


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> Yep and unfolded ballots were counted, that’s what we now know!


Spoiled ballots were copied by two poll workers with tracking. Those new ballots were unfolded. 

People who don’t understand the process scream fraud. It’s just their ignorance.


----------



## surada

colfax_m said:


> Every ballot was inspected by poll workers and observers. You have a fringe conspiracy, not reality.



That's all you get from Trump.. lies and lame conspiracy theories.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

Lesh said:


> Hey Dopey...
> 
> All Trump did was not fuck up the economy...until he did. And then he fucked it up massively


Along with everything else.


----------



## colfax_m

surada said:


> That's all you get from Trump.. lies and lame conspiracy theories.


And a lot of really stupid people who have been brainwashed to see conspiracy, fraud and attack from every corner.


----------



## jc456

colfax_m said:


> Spoiled ballots were copied by two poll workers with tracking. Those new ballots were unfolded.
> 
> People who don’t understand the process scream fraud. It’s just their ignorance.


Yep that’s what we heard. Prove it


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> Yep that’s what we heard. Prove it


Already done.


----------



## jc456

colfax_m said:


> Already done.


Nope . That’s simple


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> Nope . That’s simple


Yessir. These issues were raised in court and proven wrong. 

Trump’s observers are just idiots who don’t understand what was going on. Just like these auditors in Arizona.


----------



## lennypartiv

colfax_m said:


> People who don’t understand the process scream fraud.


People who saw the fraud happen on election night are screaming fraud.


----------



## colfax_m

lennypartiv said:


> People who saw the fraud happen on election night are screaming fraud.


They didn’t see fraud. Seriously. They thought they did because they were brainwashed to see fraud everywhere. But they didn’t. This became obvious when these affidavits were scrutinized in court. 

A person saw a box come into the counting room via a different door than the other boxes. Did they know why? No. But they was their “fraud”. They had no idea if the ballots were fraudulent or not. They didn’t understand what was in the box. They just assumed that it was fraud because they were told there would be fraud. 

It’s all bullshit.


----------



## jc456

colfax_m said:


> Yessir. These issues were raised in court and proven wrong


Nope again easy


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> Nope again easy


Your ignorance is indeed easy. Show me the case that brought up these issues.


----------



## jc456

colfax_m said:


> Your ignorance is indeed easy. Show me the case that brought up these issues.


Blah blah blah. Show me when a ballot was brought into court


----------



## Dragonlady

jc456 said:


> hmmm that's what an audit would determine, if that indeed happened or not.  There are specific procedures that appear to be in question, by 60 poll workers.  What is so difficult for you demofks to understand?



Audits have been done and they determined that the results were correct.

That’s the part you keep forgetting. There were accounts, there were recounts, there were audits and they all came out the same. 

There were not 60 poll workers who questioned things.  All poll workers signed off that they saw nothing improper. 

Everything that you believe about the election is based on Trumpian lies.


----------



## lennypartiv

---Trump: ‘RINO’ Barr helped cover up ‘crime of the century’---









						Trump: ‘RINO’ Barr helped cover up ‘crime of the century’
					

Former President Donald Trump is not happy with former Attorney General William P. Barr for slapping down his allegations of voter fraud and rigged voting machines as “all bull——.”




					www.washingtontimes.com


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> Blah blah blah. Show me when a ballot was brought into court


What’s bringing a ballot into court going to prove? That you guys are idiots?


----------



## jc456

colfax_m said:


> What’s bringing a ballot into court going to prove? That you guys are idiots?


The affidavits


----------



## Care4all

jc456 said:


> and yet he received 13 million more votes in 2020, where did they come from?


And Biden got 81 million votes to Hillary's 65 million.....16 million more votes.

More people voting equals more votes cast silly one!


----------



## Care4all

jc456 said:


> The affidavits


The judges ripped the trump lawyers apart on those AFFADAVITS silly one!

The affidavits that he brought to court WITHOUT EVER RESEARCHING THEIR CONTENT, (of strictly bull shit, false, and misleading claims)

IS WHY GIULIANI lost his Law License, silly one.

The review board chewed him up and spit him out because of the fake, unsubstantiated claims, in those affidavits.


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> The affidavits


I’ve read them. You haven’t. They’re written by people who have no idea what they’re taking about and they don’t actually have any evidence of fraud.


----------



## jc456

colfax_m said:


> I’ve read them. You haven’t. They’re written by people who have no idea what they’re taking about and they don’t actually have any evidence of fraud.


you still haven't posted the court appearance where a ballot was brought to court.


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> you still haven't posted the court appearance where a ballot was brought to court.


Why would anyone bring a ballot to court?


----------



## surada

marvin martian said:


> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, *according to the reporters*. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> LOL!  Another fantasy "conversation" you got duped into believing by someone selling a book.  Will you EVER learn???  Hahahaha



Chris Christie also told Trump he would lose if all he did was talk about the past and Hillary Clinton.


----------



## surada

lennypartiv said:


> ---Trump: ‘RINO’ Barr helped cover up ‘crime of the century’---
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump: ‘RINO’ Barr helped cover up ‘crime of the century’
> 
> 
> Former President Donald Trump is not happy with former Attorney General William P. Barr for slapping down his allegations of voter fraud and rigged voting machines as “all bull——.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.washingtontimes.com



Trump has been lying and cheating and blaming other people his whole life.


----------



## jc456

colfax_m said:


> Why would anyone bring a ballot to court?


prove it was fraud.


----------



## jc456

surada said:


> Trump has been lying and cheating and blaming other people his whole life.


it must work.


----------



## jc456

surada said:


> Chris Christie also told Trump he would lose if all he did was talk about the past and Hillary Clinton.


christie lost to Trump!! hahahahahaahahahahahahaha


----------



## surada

jc456 said:


> it must work.



He's hurt a lot of people.. contractors, vendors, employees, bankers, investors, wives and children. He's not much of a man.. He's just all about money and his ego.


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> prove it was fraud.


How is a ballot in court going to prove it was fraud?


----------



## jc456

colfax_m said:


> How is a ballot in court going to prove it was fraud?


why are they forensically auditing the ballots?


----------



## surada

jc456 said:


> why are they forensically auditing the ballots?



Still looking for evidence.. but, the states are getting fed up with Trump's stupid accusations.


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> why are they forensically auditing the ballots?


Who? The fringe nutters in Arizona?

Because they're frige nutters.


----------



## jc456

surada said:


> Still looking for evidence.. but, the states are getting fed up with Trump's stupid accusations.


already found, check AZ.


----------



## jc456

colfax_m said:


> Who? The fringe nutters in Arizona?
> 
> Because they're frige nutters.


we'll see right?


----------



## Mac-7

Lesh said:


> And none were quarantined


Neither are the hundreds of thousands of illegals coming across the border from mexica

biden is deliberately infecting Americans with the chinese disease


----------



## jc456

surada said:


> He's hurt a lot of people.. contractors, vendors, employees, bankers, investors, wives and children. He's not much of a man.. He's just all about money and his ego.


Bezo and Zuckerberg, same deal.  You should watch old Zuckerberg's movie.  what a tool.


----------



## surada

jc456 said:


> already found, check AZ.



Nope.. They didn't find evidence in AZ.. 182 POSSIBLE problem ballots out of 3 million.









						Few Arizona voter fraud cases undercut Trump's claims
					

So far, only four of the fewer than 200 cases have led to charges, including those identified in a separate state investigation. No one has been convicted. No person's vote




					tulsaworld.com


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> we'll see right?


We already have!

They don't have any idea what they're doing and every time they think they've found fraud, it's just their own ignorance.


----------



## surada

colfax_m said:


> Who? The fringe nutters in Arizona?
> 
> Because they're frige nutters.











						Fact check: Arizona early votes falsely cited as evidence of voter fraud
					

Maricopa County says the claimed disparity between ballots cast and ballots sent by mail has to do with how it counts early votes.



					www.usatoday.com


----------



## Faun

Manonthestreet said:


> And yet he increased his vote percentage to a degree that no President running for reelection who has done same has ever lost......makes ya go hhhhhmmmm


Republican: 0.9% increase
Democrat: 5.8% increase

Republicans go, _hmmmmm??_


----------



## jc456

surada said:


> Nope.. They didn't find evidence in AZ.. 182 POSSIBLE problem ballots out of 3 million.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Few Arizona voter fraud cases undercut Trump's claims
> 
> 
> So far, only four of the fewer than 200 cases have led to charges, including those identified in a separate state investigation. No one has been convicted. No person's vote
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tulsaworld.com


they haven't revealed yet, so there's that.  nice try.


----------



## jc456

colfax_m said:


> We already have!
> 
> They don't have any idea what they're doing and every time they think they've found fraud, it's just their own ignorance.


post the results then.


----------



## colfax_m

jc456 said:


> post the results then.











						Fact Check: There Were NOT 'Over 74,000' More Mail-In Ballots Received, Counted In Maricopa County, Arizona, Than Were Mailed Out  | Lead Stories
					

Were over 74,000 more mail-in ballots received and counted than were mailed out for the 2020 election in Maricopa County,...




					leadstories.com


----------



## Manonthestreet

Faun said:


> Republican: 0.9% increase
> Democrat: 5.8% increase
> 
> Republicans go, _hmmmmm??_


Your stats are wrong......ooooops


----------



## Faun

Manonthestreet said:


> Your stats are wrong......ooooops


LOL

You must be a conservative. Conservatives suck at math.


----------



## Manonthestreet

Faun said:


> LOL
> 
> You must be a conservative. Conservatives suck at math.











						Trump Got 10 Million More Votes This Election. Where Did They Come From?
					

This election had more voters than ever before: Two-thirds of eligible Americans turned out to vote in 2020, with nearly 160 million voters casting ballots — 22 million more than in 2016, and the highest proportion of Americans exercising their right to vote since 1900. But who were the 10.1...




					www.refinery29.com


----------



## Faun

Manonthestreet said:


> Trump Got 10 Million More Votes This Election. Where Did They Come From?
> 
> 
> This election had more voters than ever before: Two-thirds of eligible Americans turned out to vote in 2020, with nearly 160 million voters casting ballots — 22 million more than in 2016, and the highest proportion of Americans exercising their right to vote since 1900. But who were the 10.1...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.refinery29.com


LOL

Nothing in there refutes what I said. Who knows why you posted that??


----------



## Manonthestreet

You can't read....llmmaaooo......figures are right they his increase was much higher than .9%. Joe's  pick was totally outside the realm of possibility as he was less popular than Hilly


----------



## Faun

Manonthestreet said:


> You can't read....llmmaaooo......figures are right they his increase was much higher than .9%. Joe's  pick was totally outside the realm of possibility as he was less popular than Hilly


LOL
Seems not even you understand what you write. 

YOU said....

_And yet he increased his vote *percentage*..._​
So why are you switching from percentages to nominal figures?

I posted the increase of his *"vote percentage"* in response you saying people go hmmm over the increase of his *"vote percentage."*

Republican: 0.9% increase​Democrat: 5.8% increase​​Republicans go, _hmmmmm??_​
Do you need help with the math? How about the English? I can help with that too.


----------



## Aldo Raine

BluesLegend 
Your phone is ringing!
MAGA


----------



## Manonthestreet

Faun said:


> LOL
> Seems not even you understand what you write.
> 
> YOU said....
> 
> _And yet he increased his vote *percentage*..._​
> So why are you switching from percentages to nominal figures?
> 
> I posted the increase of his *"vote percentage"* in response you saying people go hmmm over the increase of his *"vote percentage."*
> 
> Republican: 0.9% increase​Democrat: 5.8% increase​​Republicans go, _hmmmmm??_​
> Do you need help with the math? How about the English? I can help with that too.


You don't do decimals in conjunction with a % sign eh......still wrong go back to school Trump's pick up was over 10%. ....


----------



## surada

healthmyths said:


> surada
> Totally YOUR input!  Where is your link regarding Trump banning Venezuela oil?
> Where is your PROOF regarding lift costs?
> Who the hell do you think you are that WE all should just believe your subjective, unsubstantiated opinions?
> Do some work for once and proof your statement!
> _"The Trump administration did not directly ban imports of Venezuelan crude oil."_
> 
> So you lied!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AP Explains: US sanctions to hit Venezuelan oil company
> 
> 
> NEW YORK (AP) — The Trump administration has imposed sanctions on Venezuela's state-owned oil company, Petroleos de Venezuela SA, its harshest economic punishment to date against the government of President Nicolas Maduro, whom the U...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The U.S. imports less than 500,000 barrels a day of Venezuelan crude, down from more than 1.2 million barrels a day in 2008, according to the Energy Information Administration.  though it now only supplies about* 6 percent of imports.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AP Explains: US sanctions to hit Venezuelan oil company
> 
> 
> NEW YORK (AP) — The Trump administration has imposed sanctions on Venezuela's state-owned oil company, Petroleos de Venezuela SA, its harshest economic punishment to date against the government of President Nicolas Maduro, whom the U...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Surada... It took me less than 3 minutes to find the above!
> Proof it!*



We were buying 500,000 bpd from VZ in 2019 until covid.. Now we are buying a half million bpd from Russia because of Trump's sanctions.


----------



## BluesLegend

Aldo Raine said:


> BluesLegend
> Your phone is ringing!
> MAGA


You're weird. CRT


----------



## healthmyths

surada said:


> We were buying 500,000 bpd from VZ in 2019 until covid.. Now we are buying a half million bpd from Russia because of Trump's sanctions.


Proof?
You make totally unsupported statements?  Who in the hell are you to make above totally unsupported statements?

1) About a quarter* (25%) of U.S. oil and an eighth of the nation's natural gas is produced on federal lands*.








						Oil from federal lands tops 1B barrels as Trump eases rules
					

Oil production from federally-managed lands and waters topped a record 1 billion barrels last year




					abcnews.go.com
				



For example...do you hate the American Indians???
2) With Biden's moratorium on Federal land exploration leases the affect is as follows:
 a) *Revenues from energy development on federal land and in offshore waters are a major source of federal income, second only to tax revenue*. Each year, the money is distributed to states, Native American tribes, and the U.S. Treasury and is the primary funding source for popular federal and state programs devoted to everything from education and conservation to health care and public safety. *More than $8 billion of energy revenues were disbursed last year for these purposes, primarily from royalty payments and lease sales associated with fossil-fuel development. Prior to the pandemic, disbursements were nearly $12 billion.*








						The Cost of Biden’s Ban on Oil and Gas Leasing
					

Not drilling has economic and environmental consequences.



					www.perc.org
				



As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden​


			As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden


----------



## jc456

Chillicothe said:


> OK, but what did you think of the PBS show Washington Week's episode with the authors of "Only I Can Fix It"?
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> No it is not.
> As Leoning noted Don Trump spent oodles of bandwidth/time/energy to denigrate and discount the established medical authorities who were striving diligently to produce a safe vaccine....and once they got it he continued to trash 'em.
> 
> And, as Leoning also noted....Don Trump wanted to hog all credit for the eventual development of a vaccine that happened on his watch (on a vaccine framework long in existence)....yet, Don Trump has been luke-warm, shy, mostly silent in urging his followers to get out there and aggressively seek getting vaccinated.
> 
> **Just think what the effect would be if he was pro-active in that area? *
> *Used his immense bully-pulpit to persuade his base that getting vaccinated is good for them, their loved ones, and the society they benefit from.*
> 
> First, of course, he would piss off the more ignorant Luddites within his base;
> But, more importantly, there could be millions more who would go get their shots.
> 
> But see, Don Trump is afraid of that first part......pissing off the Luddites.


you all see something completely different than what is said.  The discussion is a rat hole with a demofk. You can't be honest about what is ever actually said.  ain't worth a discussion on the event.  you heard what you want and what isn't there.  I can't help you.


----------



## Chillicothe

jc456 said:


> *"I can't help you."*




So then, you didn't even watch the Washington Week episode?


----------



## jc456

Chillicothe said:


> So then, you didn't even watch the Washington Week episode?


sure, but I won't discuss with you.


----------



## Chillicothe

Mac-7 said:


> *"....biden is deliberately infecting Americans with the chinese disease..."*


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ummm??
Why do you do that, poster* Mac-7?*
You can have no credible authoritative source for such an assertion.


Such pronouncements, coming as they do from one of our more strident Trumpfolk does nothing but make all Trumpfolk look like they are simpletons, nutters, fringies.


Now, *Mac-7*, my avatar does not wish to single your avatar out as the only one. There are, after all, a whole handful of Trump loyalist on this venue who make the most bizarre and unsupported claims.  That is.....if their messaging can get around their use of epithets and f-bombs.

Why do they do that?
We all know what the cultural  perception is --both here and abroad --- about the educational level and gullibility of Trumpfolk.  And then you, Mac-7, come right here and validate that cliché.
Why do you do that?

You must know it makes you and other Trump supporters look like unread goobers.
What's up with that?
Why so willingly play right into the worst stereotypes your opponents apply to you?

I don't get it.


----------



## Mac-7

Chillicothe said:


> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Ummm??
> Why do you do that, poster* Mac-7?*
> You can have no credible authoritative source for such an assertion.
> 
> 
> Such pronouncements, coming as they do from one of our more strident Trumpfolk does nothing but make all Trumpfolk look like they are simpletons, nutters, fringies.
> 
> 
> Now, *Mac-7*, my avatar does not wish to single your avatar out as the only one. There are, after all, a whole handful of Trump loyalist on this venue who make the most bizarre and unsupported claims.  That is.....if their messaging can get around their use of epithets and f-bombs.
> 
> Why do they do that?
> We all know what the cultural  perception is --both here and abroad --- about the educational level and gullibility of Trumpfolk.  And then you, Mac-7, come right here and validate that cliché.
> Why do you do that?
> 
> You must know it makes you and other Trump supporters look like unread goobers.
> What's up with that?
> Why so willingly play right into the worst stereotypes your opponents apply to you?
> 
> I don't get it.


Since biden took office his policies have maximized the number of illegal aliens pouring across the border

and many of them carry the chinese disease

he cannot avoid responsibility for releasing those people into our society  









						10 percent of teenagers in Texas migrant camp test positive for COVID
					

The immigration camp, which is located in Midland, Texas, was opened by President Joe Biden's administration to temporarily house unaccompanied children that have crossed the U.S. border.




					www.newsweek.com


----------



## Faun

Manonthestreet said:


> You don't do decimals in conjunction with a % sign eh......still wrong go back to school Trump's pick up was over 10%. ....


LOLOL

You really suck at math. Of course decimals are used with percent signs.



			http://legacy-www.math.harvard.edu/hcmr/issues/1a.pdf
		
​_Bush had carried *50.75%* of the vote..._​
Can ya be more desperate?



And you didn't specify his vote gain. You specified the increase of his vote percentage.

His vote percentage in 2016 was 46.4%. In 2020, it was 46.8%. That's an increase of a whopping 0.9%.

Break out the champaign!


----------



## lennypartiv

Chillicothe said:


> Such pronouncements, coming as they do from one of our more strident Trumpfolk does nothing but make all Trumpfolk look like they are simpletons, nutters, fringies.


You can't deny the virus is spreading wildly during the Biden administration.


----------



## Chillicothe

lennypartiv said:


> *"....the virus is spreading wildly during the Biden administration."*


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For some very understandable and preventable reasons...chief amongst them the nature of the Delta variant and the 100 million vaccine-eligible Americans who haven't/won't/refuse to get their jabs.

Notably ----neither polio or smallpox (among others) went away by themselves.  

Vaccines did that.


----------



## lennypartiv

Chillicothe forgets America is a free country.  Or does he want a mandate that forces us to get the vaccine against our will?


----------



## basquebromance

"Barr would lick the floor if i wanted him to. what a phony" - Trump


----------



## lennypartiv

basquebromance said:


> "Barr would lick the floor if i wanted him to. what a phony" - Trump


Yeah, Barr used to be loyal.


----------



## basquebromance

lennypartiv said:


> Yeah, Barr used to be loyal.


yup. Barr is now open about his Trump contempt which he had struggled to keep private for a long time. fuck him.

a follow-the-rules Attorney General can never get along with a break-everything president anyway!


----------



## basquebromance

it must be hell to work for Trump

you have to answer to both Trump AND the real world!


----------



## lennypartiv

basquebromance said:


> it must be hell to work for Trump
> 
> you have to answer to both Trump AND the real world!


The only people you can never please is liberal Democrats.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Mac-7 said:


> he cannot avoid responsibility for releasing those people into our society


Sounds scary. Do you have a number? Like, so we can get a sense of scale, compared to say, a small city?


----------



## Mac-7

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> scary. Do you have a number? Like, so we can get a sense of scale, compared to say, a small city?


I dont have an exact number

but I dont think you would how many it was


----------



## lennypartiv

basquebromance said:


> yup. Barr is now open about his Trump contempt which he had struggled to keep private for a long time. fuck him.
> a follow-the-rules Attorney General can never get along with a break-everything president anyway!


I think Barr is looking towards the future.  He's hoping Trump becomes weaker.  It looks like a bad assumption by Barr since Trump is leading the early polls for 2024.


----------



## Leviticus

He lost because the moderates and indieswho voted for him in 2016 knew what he was


----------



## surada

Meathead said:


> Surada posting raw story. What could possibly be wrong?


There are links. Trump killed his chances for relection. He couldn't help himself.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

surada said:


> There are links. Trump killed his chances for relection. He couldn't help himself.


Yep. Every nauseating Trump campaign rally was actually a Biden rally.


----------



## surada

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Yep. Every nauseating Trump campaign rally was actually a Biden rally.


Trump has no impulse control. He's so desperate to be the center of attention that he can't shut up. It's pathetic for an adult male.


----------



## Meathead

surada said:


> Trump has no impulse control. He's so desperate to be the center of attention that he can't shut up. It's pathetic for an adult male.


As the creator of this thread and a veritable dingbat, doubtless you don't understand the irony in your saying Trump is desperate to be the center of attention.

I tire of idiots.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Meathead said:


> As the creator of this thread and a veritable dingbat, doubtless you don't understand the irony in your saying Trump is desperate to be the center of attention.
> 
> I tire of idiots.


Because he started a thread?

Haha, Trump has really turned your brains to tapioca.


----------



## surada

Meathead said:


> As the creator of this thread and a veritable dingbat, doubtless you don't understand the irony in your saying Trump is desperate to be the center of attention.
> 
> I tire of idiots.


You are creator and dingbat? Trump took six hours of executive time every day. He liked to watch himself on TV and tweet. He's not much of a man.


----------



## surada

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> 
> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> Sarah K. Burris
> July 21, 2021
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.
> 
> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.
> 
> "I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> “There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020
> 
> Continued
> Juiy 2021


----------



## BrokeLoser

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Yep. Every nauseating Trump campaign rally was actually a Biden rally.





surada said:


> Trump has no impulse control. He's so desperate to be the center of attention that he can't shut up. It's pathetic for an adult male.


Yeah, those stupid billionaires….they really should seek advice from TDS whackos that believe a man can become a woman by proclamation…the ones that spend their days on the internet talking shit.


----------



## Mac1958

surada said:


> Trump has no impulse control. He's so desperate to be the center of attention that he can't shut up. It's pathetic for an adult male.


And what does that say about those who either (a) somehow don't see it, or (b) don't care what it says about a person's temperament and emotional stability?


----------



## BrokeLoser

Mac1958 said:


> And what does that say about those who either (a) somehow don't see it, or (b) don't care what it says about a person's temperament and emotional stability?


It ”says” that a platform centered around just two messages is powerful as fuck.
1.)   American’s First
2.)   Fuck Wetbacks


----------



## surada

Mac1958 said:


> And what does that say about those who either (a) somehow don't see it, or (b) don't care what it says about a person's temperament and emotional stability?


It says they like the drama.. the demagogues, the barn burning speeches. Not much on substance. Hitler did the same thing. He could fire up the masses.


----------



## Mac1958

surada said:


> It says they like the drama.. the demagogues, the barn burning speeches. Not much on substance. Hitler did the same thing. He could fire up the masses.


They both appeal to the paranoia and rage of the rubes.


----------



## BrokeLoser

surada said:


> It says they like the drama.. the demagogues, the barn burning speeches. Not much on substance. Hitler did the same thing. He could fire up the masses.


1.) American’s First
2.) Fuck Wetbacks


----------



## surada

Mac1958 said:


> They both appeal to the paranoia and rage of the rubes.


 Trump worked his people into a mindless frenzy for Jan 6 the.


----------



## bripat9643

surada said:


> There are links. Trump killed his chances for relection. He couldn't help himself.


Prog imbeciles seem to believe a link is all you need to prove your claim.


----------



## Mac1958

surada said:


> Trump worked his people into a mindless frenzy for Jan 6 the.


And he began even before election day 2020.

He had the rubes primed and ready for an insurrection.

Unknowing pawns of a sick man.


----------



## jc456

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Because he started a thread?
> 
> Haha, Trump has really turned your brains to tapioca.


Says the person who can’t stop talking about him. That’s called irony


----------



## surada

Mac1958 said:


> And he began even before election day 2020.
> 
> He had the rubes primed and ready for an insurrection.
> 
> Unknowing pawns of a sick man.


He was claiming the election was rigged for months. In 2016 Trump claimed that that 3-5 million illegals voted. More lies and he did nothing about it. How insane is that?


----------



## surada

jc456 said:


> Says the person who can’t stop talking about him. That’s called irony


He says he's going to run again. That's alarming.


----------



## bripat9643

Mac1958 said:


> And he began even before election day 2020.
> 
> He had the rubes primed and ready for an insurrection.
> 
> Unknowing pawns of a sick man.


meaningless pap.


----------



## bripat9643

surada said:


> He says he's going to run again. That's alarming.


I hope you are alarmed.


----------



## bripat9643

surada said:


> He was claiming the election was rigged for months. In 2016 Trump claimed that that 3-5 million illegals voted. More lies and he did nothing about it. How insane is that?



We all knew it was rigged the minute all these Dim states started changing the voting laws to make cheating easier.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Meathead said:


> Surada posting raw story. What could possibly be wrong?


"Uninformed sources told this reporter...."


----------



## BrokeLoser

surada said:


> He says he's going to run again. That's alarming.


Why?
Are you an illegal wetback….a fag….a rug muncher….a chick with a dick…a feminazi….a woke white guilt whacko…criminal filth…a lowlife welfare sucking degenerate?
EVERYBODY above board and truly legitimate kicked ass under Trump…why didn’t you?


----------



## cnm

BrokeLoser said:


> It ”says” that a platform centered around just two messages is powerful as fuck.
> 1.) American’s First
> 2.) Fuck Wetbacks


So he lost.


----------



## jc456

surada said:


> He says he's going to run again. That's alarming.


It's out fking standing!!!  strap it up and grab some bench junior.


----------



## cnm

jc456 said:


> It's out fking standing!!!


America deserves no less.


----------



## Mac1958

surada said:


> He was claiming the election was rigged for months. In 2016 Trump claimed that that 3-5 million illegals voted. More lies and he did nothing about it. How insane is that?


It's a reflection of where this country is right now.  Not good.


----------



## jc456

Mac1958 said:


> It's a reflection of where this country is right now.  Not good.


except we do know even in 2016, harvesting of ballots occurred.  That's wrong in every way shape and form.  the fact you have no desire for integrity of an election doesn't mean I have to.  So, let's eliminate ballot harvesting and conduct fair elections.  It seems you are against that.  And that's truly where we are as a country.


----------



## surada

jc456 said:


> except we do know even in 2016, harvesting of ballots occurred.  That's wrong in every way shape and form.  the fact you have no desire for integrity of an election doesn't mean I have to.  So, let's eliminate ballot harvesting and conduct fair elections.  It seems you are against that.  And that's truly where we are as a country.


Trump did claim that 3-5 million illegals voted but he didn't do anything about it.


----------



## bodecea

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> 
> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> Sarah K. Burris
> July 21, 2021
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.
> 
> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.
> 
> "I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> “There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020
> 
> Continued


And those who do vote for trump are all IN for the:
"acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
chaos"....not to mention the bullying and violence.


----------



## surada

bodecea said:


> And those who do vote for trump are all IN for the:
> "acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos"....not to mention the bullying and violence.


Sadly yes. It's not like Americans to be proud of such low morals.


----------



## healthmyths

surada said:


> He was claiming the election was rigged for months. In 2016 Trump claimed that that 3-5 million illegals voted. More lies and he did nothing about it. How insane is that?


Why would he complain about 3-5 million illegals vote...he won!


----------



## Chillicothe

jc456 said:


> _harvesting of ballots occurred. That's wrong in every way shape and form........ let's eliminate ballot harvesting and conduct fair elections._


-----------------------------------------------
Out of a sense of curiosity and with the goal of advancing the political discourse here, can we have some definitions of "_harvesting of ballots"_?

What is ballot harvesting? 
The poster '*jc456'* indicates that there is more than one shape or form of it?
What are they?
Why are they bad?
Must they always be bad?


----------



## surada

easyt65 said:


> There you go PROJECTING again...


Look how many Trump associates Trump has turned on in the past 40 years. Even his family hates him.


----------



## healthmyths

bodecea said:


> And those who do vote for trump are all IN for the:
> "acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos"....not to mention the bullying and violence.


Barr was ignorant evidently of THESE FACTS!!!
The Biased MSM donated 96% to Hillary and spent the next 4 years totally trashing Trump who didn't care as the major reason most of us respect Trump is because HE IS NOT A POLITICIAN!  He didn't need the job to make money...he was one of only 3 presidents that donated their salaries... unlike JOE!
BUT here are the facts regarding the extremely biased MSM that spent 4 years after backing loser Hillary writing everything derogatory about Trump...

study found that about *19% of the coverage of Biden's first 60 days* days has been negative over the first 60 days of his administration, which ranked best among presidents of the last three decades. 
Former Presidents Bill Clinton (28%), 
George W. Bush (28%), 
Barack Obama (20%), and 
*Donald Trump (62%*) all saw more negative coverage than Biden.








						Biden received less negative media coverage than any president on record while Trump received most: study
					

A new study shows President Joe Biden has received less negative coverage from U.S. media than any president in the last 30 years.




					gazette.com
				



But see people like you don't deal with FACTS and as a result are truly grossly uninformed and proof of that is YOU believe the MSM  in spite of their telling you they backed Hillary/Biden!  
But you are paying the price...gas under Trump 4/27/20 gallon gas $1.773
Gas under Biden who CANCELLED exploration on Federal lands: 02/26/22  gal of gas $3.601  
A difference $1.828 or 103.1% increase!
And you are paying for it!


----------



## Turtlesoup

surada said:


> Trump is lazy, arrogant and ignorant.. a ham-fisted bully. He wasted his presidency.


Trump is lazy?  What the are you smoking?   He is notorious for rising early in the morning and working late into the night.    How do you  think he held so many rallies?


----------



## bripat9643

Mac1958 said:


> It's a reflection of where this country is right now.  Not good.


yeah, it's sad that we have one of our main political committing election fraud on such a vast scale.


----------



## healthmyths

Chillicothe said:


> -----------------------------------------------
> Out of a sense of curiosity and with the goal of advancing the political discourse here, can we have some definitions of "_harvesting of ballots"_?
> 
> What is ballot harvesting?
> The poster '*jc456'* indicates that there is more than one shape or form of it?
> What are they?
> Why are they bad?
> Must they always be bad?


That's why I coined the phrase "JUNK MAIL Voting"!
I've done absentee voting for several years and I'm fully confident that the steps involved:
1) I request using a form that is used to match my signature with
2) the ballot that is mailed to me along with a signature form that is matched to my original request form.

*BUT JUNK MAIL Voting allows BALLOTS to be mailed to all addresses that are on the voting registration rolls*
*FIRST..*..
Then the returned ballot signature form compared at that time with driver's license or some other 
form...totally allowing THIS to happen!

That's why in person voting MOST secured, Mail in ballots, 2nd and the least secured "JUNK MAIL voting"!
Now some people don't believe mass ballot mailings occur.  FACTS.
Eight states – California, Colorado, Hawaii, Nevada, Oregon, Utah, Vermont, and Washington – conduct what are commonly referred to as all-mail elections.
These states did ---Automatic mail-in ballot systems mandate that all eligible voters receive either a ballot or ballot application by default.
I.E. "JUNK MAIL Voting"!  Everyone on the voting rolls gets a ballot... alive or dead!


----------



## Lesh

jc456 said:


> except we do know even in 2016, harvesting of ballots occurred.  That's wrong in every way shape and form.  the fact you have no desire for integrity of an election doesn't mean I have to.  So, let's eliminate ballot harvesting and conduct fair elections.  It seems you are against that.  And that's truly where we are as a country.


Harvesting of ballots is legal in more states. Than it is not stupid


----------



## surada

Turtlesoup said:


> Trump is lazy?  What the are you smoking?   He is notorious for rising early in the morning and working late into the night.    How do you  think he held so many rallies?


Trump has always been lazy. He likes to watch himself on TV and tweet... He needed six hours of executive time every day when he couldn't go to the office or meetings. He also is famous for taking credit for other people's work.


----------



## Chillicothe

healthmyths said:


> _Why would he complain about 3-5 million illegals vote...he won!_



And yet, he did.
Vociferously.
Google it.
Even going to the lengths of appointing a special '_integrity commission_' to examine the 2016 vote....claiming he did not lose the popular vote to Hilary Clinton by 3+ million votes.

The commission was famously chaired by Pence and Chris Kobach.

The Associated Press in August of 2018 stated this:

_"PORTLAND, Maine (AP) — The now-disbanded voting integrity commission launched by the Trump administration uncovered no evidence to support claims of widespread voter fraud, according to an analysis of administration documents released Friday."_


----------



## jc456

surada said:


> Trump did claim that 3-5 million illegals voted but he didn't do anything about it.


like what?  what do you think he could do?  He won and was pointing out how many illegals voted.  Not sure he said he would do anything.  post that link and I'll look into it.


----------



## jc456

surada said:


> Trump has always been lazy. He likes to watch himself on TV and tweet... He needed six hours of executive time every day when he couldn't go to the office or meetings. He also is famous for taking credit for other people's work.


your infatuation with Trump is noted.


----------



## bripat9643

bodecea said:


> And those who do vote for trump are all IN for the:
> "acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos"....not to mention the bullying and violence.


Progs are the one who picked a fight, but they're used to Republican groveling, not someone who punches back.


----------



## surada

jc456 said:


> your infatuation with Trump is noted.


Trump has always been a creep.... back to the mid 1970s.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> your infatuation with Trump is noted.


As is yours....


----------



## bripat9643

Lesh said:


> Harvesting of ballots is legal in more states. Than it is not stupid


It wasn't before COVID.


----------



## bripat9643

surada said:


> Trump has always been a creep.... back to the mid 1970s.


Dim politicians loved him before he ran for office and won.


----------



## Faun

healthmyths said:


> Why would he complain about 3-5 million illegals vote...he won!


Because it irked him that more Americans voted for Hillary than him. His delicate ego couldn't handle it.


----------



## healthmyths

surada said:


> Trump has always been a creep.... back to the mid 1970s.


As creepy as this is??


----------



## Turtlesoup

surada said:


> Trump has always been lazy. He likes to watch himself on TV and tweet... He needed six hours of executive time every day when he couldn't go to the office or meetings. He also is famous for taking credit for other people's work.


Surada----I can tell that you have never been in charge.  You have no clue what Trump did during his executive time--research, negotiate, plan, talk underlings off an edge....whatever.   There is quite a bit that goes on to run things that peons (you) wouldn't see.  THE RESULTS is what one would see in the open and lets face it---TRUMP delivered positive results constantly.


----------



## surada

Chillicothe said:


> And yet, he did.
> Vociferously.
> Google it.
> Even going to the lengths of appointing a special '_integrity commission_' to examine the 2016 vote....claiming he did not lose the popular vote to Hilary Clinton by 3+ million votes.
> 
> The commission was famously chaired by Pence and Chris Kobach.
> 
> The Associated Press in August of 2018 stated this:
> 
> _"PORTLAND, Maine (AP) — The now-disbanded voting integrity commission launched by the Trump administration uncovered no evidence to support claims of widespread voter fraud, according to an analysis of administration documents released Friday."_


Trump can't help himself. He desperately needed for Americans to believe he won the popular vote over Hillary. Trump is very weak and insecure.


----------



## surada

Turtlesoup said:


> Surada----I can tell that you have never been in charge.  You have no clue what Trump did during his executive time--research, negotiate, plan, talk underlings off an edge....whatever.   There is quite a bit that goes on to run things that peons (you) wouldn't see.  THE RESULTS is what one would see in the open and lets face it---TRUMP delivered positive results constantly.


Of course I have been in charge.. Trump has just run a Mom and Pop operation. Look at Trump University, Trump steaks, Trump vodka etc. He's impulsive.  He doesn't do due diligence.


----------



## Faun

healthmyths said:


> Barr was ignorant evidently of THESE FACTS!!!
> The Biased MSM donated 96% to Hillary and spent the next 4 years totally trashing Trump who didn't care as the major reason most of us respect Trump is because HE IS NOT A POLITICIAN!  He didn't need the job to make money...he was one of only 3 presidents that donated their salaries... unlike JOE!
> BUT here are the facts regarding the extremely biased MSM that spent 4 years after backing loser Hillary writing everything derogatory about Trump...
> View attachment 608660
> study found that about *19% of the coverage of Biden's first 60 days* days has been negative over the first 60 days of his administration, which ranked best among presidents of the last three decades.
> Former Presidents Bill Clinton (28%),
> George W. Bush (28%),
> Barack Obama (20%), and
> *Donald Trump (62%*) all saw more negative coverage than Biden.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biden received less negative media coverage than any president on record while Trump received most: study
> 
> 
> A new study shows President Joe Biden has received less negative coverage from U.S. media than any president in the last 30 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gazette.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But see people like you don't deal with FACTS and as a result are truly grossly uninformed and proof of that is YOU believe the MSM  in spite of their telling you they backed Hillary/Biden!
> But you are paying the price...gas under Trump 4/27/20 gallon gas $1.773
> Gas under Biden who CANCELLED exploration on Federal lands: 02/26/22  gal of gas $3.601
> A difference $1.828 or 103.1% increase!
> And you are paying for it!



_*"gas under Trump 4/27/20 gallon gas $1.773"*_

... pretty dishonest of you to compare gas prices from the Trump Recession when some 22 million people suddenly lost their jobs due to the shutdowns Trump recommended and no longer had a job to drive to; while tens of millions of others began working remotely and no longer had to drive to work; along with an additional tens of million of students who also became homebound and were no longer being driven to school.

Apparently, you don't understand basic economic concept of supply & demand.


----------



## surada

Faun said:


> _*"gas under Trump 4/27/20 gallon gas $1.773"*_
> 
> ... pretty dishonest of you to compare gas prices from the Trump Recession when some 22 million people suddenly lost their jobs due to the shutdowns Trump recommended and no longer had a job to drive to; while tens of millions of others began working remotely and no longer had to drive to work; along with an additional tens of million of students who also became homebound and were no longer being driven to school.
> 
> Apparently, you don't understand basic economic concept of supply & demand.


Don't ask them to think.


----------



## Chillicothe

*I see little wrong with: *
1. being a registered voter for your state
2. receiving an application for a ballot mailed to you at the address of record
3. completing and returning the application within the reasonable window of time 
4. promptly receiving in return a formal legal ballot.
5. that you can mail in or personally deliver to the polling station or a secured drop box.
6. and....I see nothing wrong with going to the polls yourself and voting right there at that time.
7. and, I see little wrong, with America doing what it reasonably and prudently can to encourage the largest, widest, most representative vote from registered voters as can possibly be done.
8. and, importantly, I can see little wrong with America going full out katy-bar-the-door effort to get ALL Americans who are eligible to vote ----a citizen and 18yrs of age......get 'em all registered. And urge them to go vote.

It is the American way.


----------



## Faun

healthmyths said:


> That's why I coined the phrase "JUNK MAIL Voting"!
> I've done absentee voting for several years and I'm fully confident that the steps involved:
> 1) I request using a form that is used to match my signature with
> 2) the ballot that is mailed to me along with a signature form that is matched to my original request form.
> 
> *BUT JUNK MAIL Voting allows BALLOTS to be mailed to all addresses that are on the voting registration rolls*
> *FIRST..*..
> Then the returned ballot signature form compared at that time with driver's license or some other
> form...totally allowing THIS to happen!
> 
> That's why in person voting MOST secured, Mail in ballots, 2nd and the least secured "JUNK MAIL voting"!
> Now some people don't believe mass ballot mailings occur.  FACTS.
> Eight states – California, Colorado, Hawaii, Nevada, Oregon, Utah, Vermont, and Washington – conduct what are commonly referred to as all-mail elections.
> These states did ---Automatic mail-in ballot systems mandate that all eligible voters receive either a ballot or ballot application by default.
> I.E. "JUNK MAIL Voting"!  Everyone on the voting rolls gets a ballot... alive or dead!



Do you realize only one of the contested states sent out unsolicited main-in ballots?


----------



## Faun

surada said:


> Don't ask them to think.



I'm not. I'm highlighting the fact that they don't.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Do you realize only one of the contested states sent out unsolicited main-in ballots?


​*Voting by mail: 9 states send ballots automatically, 35 allow COVID-19 as an excuse, 6 require other reason*​


----------



## Faun

healthmyths said:


> As creepy as this is??
> View attachment 608666


Creepier...

_Jane Doe v. Donald J. Trump and Jeffery Epstein_​


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> ​*Voting by mail: 9 states send ballots automatically, 35 allow COVID-19 as an excuse, 6 require other reason*​



Thanks for affirming what I said. Wasn't necessary, but thanks just the same.


----------



## jc456

Lesh said:


> Harvesting of ballots is legal in more states. Than it is not stupid


hmmm








						Texas Just Arrested A Ballot Harvester - She's Facing 4 Felony Charges And Could Serve For Up To 20 Years In Prison
					

Despite Democrat claims that it doesn't happen, a major arrest just went down.




					thepatriotjournal.com


----------



## jc456

surada said:


> Trump has always been a creep.... back to the mid 1970s.


He's still unique today.  So?  What did he do to you other than allow you to be free?


----------



## jc456

See, the demofks in here know they can't win unless they cheat.  They're all laughing, I laugh back at them, cause you know they are cheaters who are proud to be cheaters.  That's the highest comedy honor of all.  Especially since they all threw their honor and integrity in the shitter.


----------



## surada

jc456 said:


> He's still unique today.  So?  What did he do to you other than allow you to be free?


Trump didn't register to vote until he was 45.. then he changed parties 5 times.


----------



## jc456

surada said:


> Trump didn't register to vote until he was 45.. then he changed parties 5 times.


still nothing worth a discussion.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> As is yours....


I respect trump, he’s a true leader! You talking about him daily along with every other demofk is phenomenal.  Keep talking trump, he’s very special


----------



## healthmyths

surada said:


> Of course I have been in charge.. Trump has just run a Mom and Pop operation. Look at Trump University, Trump steaks, Trump vodka etc. He's impulsive.  He doesn't do due diligence.


So you have been the decision  maker for the equivalent of these $4 billion in value properties?


----------



## jc456

healthmyths said:


> So you have been the decision  maker for the equivalent of these $4 billion in value properties?View attachment 608708


Wasn’t trump also president of the United States?


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Thanks for affirming what I said. Wasn't necessary, but thanks just the same.


You lied.  Here is what you said:

_"Do you realize only one of the contested states sent out unsolicited main-in ballots?"_​


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> You lied.  Here is what you said:
> 
> _"Do you realize only one of the contested states sent out unsolicited main-in ballots?"_​



Fucking moron, how can that be a lie when YOU posted a link stating:

*These 9 states and D.C. send ballots ahead of the election automatically to registered voters*​
Vermont
Nevada
District of Columbia
California
New Jersey
Colorado
Hawaii
Utah
Washington
Oregon
... and only one of those (Nevada) was one of the contested states.

Are you ever not a fucking moron?

Ever???


----------



## Chillicothe

jc456 said:


> _"...... harvesting of ballots occurred. That's wrong in every way shape and form... So, let's eliminate ballot harvesting and conduct fair elections."_





Chillicothe said:


> Out of a sense of curiosity and with the goal of advancing the political discourse here, can we have some definitions of "_harvesting of ballots"_?





Chillicothe said:


> What is ballot harvesting?
> The poster '*jc456'* indicates that there is more than one shape or form of it?
> What are they?    Why are they bad?      Must they always be bad?


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Saddle up, good poster *"jc456".*
Whatcha got that is persuasive to the forum?


----------



## BWK

Meathead said:


> Surada posting raw story. What could possibly be wrong?


Your counter argument.


----------



## BWK

Faun said:


> Fucking moron, how can that be a lie when YOU posted a link stating:
> 
> *These 9 states and D.C. send ballots ahead of the election automatically to registered voters*​
> Vermont
> Nevada
> District of Columbia
> California
> New Jersey
> Colorado
> Hawaii
> Utah
> Washington
> Oregon
> ... and only one of those (Nevada) was one of the contested states.
> 
> Are you ever not a fucking moron?
> 
> Ever???


No!


----------



## jc456

Chillicothe said:


> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Saddle up, good poster *"jc456".*
> Whatcha got that is persuasive to the forum?











						BOMBSHELL REPORT: Georgia Ballot Harvester Admits To Making $45,000 To Stuff Ballot Boxes
					

An absolute bombshell report has surfaced in the state of Georgia. A ballot trafficking whistle blower has just admitted to stuffing ballot boxes from 2AM-5AM in exchange for $45,000. That’s just one part of the breaking news, according to a report from the True Vote the whistleblower was just...




					welovetrump.com
				




how's the ride?


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Fucking moron, how can that be a lie when YOU posted a link stating:
> 
> *These 9 states and D.C. send ballots ahead of the election automatically to registered voters*​
> Vermont
> Nevada
> District of Columbia
> California
> New Jersey
> Colorado
> Hawaii
> Utah
> Washington
> Oregon
> ... and only one of those (Nevada) was one of the contested states.
> 
> Are you ever not a fucking moron?
> 
> Ever???


That just confirms you lie that "_only one of the contested states sent out unsolicited main-in ballots."_

Are you ever not a fucking moron?

Ever?


----------



## Mac1958

"...pettiness, acrimony, punching down, chaos..."​
Yeah, four for four.  The behaviors of a spoiled, petulant child.

The fact that he's revered to ANY degree is an ugly indictment of our society.  And that's the core of this.


----------



## jc456

Mac1958 said:


> "...pettiness, acrimony, punching down, chaos..."​
> Yeah, four for four.  The behaviors of a spoiled, petulant child.
> 
> The fact that he's revered to ANY degree is an ugly indictment of our society.  And that's the core of this.


that's xiden to the T, along with murderer and child molestor and child abuser.  keep going, this is fun.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> That just confirms you lie that "_only one of the contested states sent out unsolicited main-in ballots."_
> 
> Are you ever not a fucking moron?
> 
> Ever?



LOLOLOL

Holyfuckingshit....

ok, fucking moron, which state other than Nevada sends out unsolicited ballots......


----------



## bripat9643

Mac1958 said:


> "...pettiness, acrimony, punching down, chaos..."​
> Yeah, four for four.  The behaviors of a spoiled, petulant child.
> 
> The fact that he's revered to ANY degree is an ugly indictment of our society.  And that's the core of this.


Why do you whine when Trump behaves exactly like a prog?

BTW, nobody "revers" Trump.

The core of this is that Trump has the number of the leftwing douchebags.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> LOLOLOL
> 
> Holyfuckingshit....
> 
> ok, fucking moron, which state other than Nevada sends out unsolicited ballots......



Vermont
District of Columbia
California
New Jersey
Colorado
Hawaii
Utah
Washington
Oregon


----------



## Chillicothe

jc456 said:


> _*how's the ride?*_


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, good poster "*jc456"*....if you are alluding to your links to "240 operatives" illegally harvesting Georgia ballots, or a Ruby Freeman confessing to harvesting, or even to Don Trump's allegation of widespread purchasing of ballots for $10 each......well, it was a short and brief ride.

Honest, though......it was kind of fun.

Good poster *'jc456'* offered this forum a link to a noted and credible website *(welovetrump.com*) with their story of 240 unnamed and unidentified 'harvest' operatives captured on film (tho none named or arrested to date).  
And so I opened jc456's link....and followed the connected links to WesternJournal, GatewayPundit, Breitbart, et al.

All mentioned the "240 operatives", and that even one guy supposedley 'confessed' to getting $40k for harvesting.

Yet, in all those links...some over 2 months old...and even more current ones......none of them named a name. Identified no arrestees. Or law enforcement authorities engaged in investigating or charging.  Even the "Ruby Freeman" was shown to be a de-bunked rumor.

So, that brings us back to good poster *jc456* and this query:



> *Out of a ......goal of advancing the political discourse here, can we have some definitions of "harvesting of ballots"?*





> *Chillicothe said:
> What is ballot harvesting?
> The poster 'jc456' indicates that there is more than one shape or form of it?
> What are they? Why are they bad? Must they always be bad?*


--------------------------------------------------

So, whatcha got* jc?*
We'll even read your "*Welovetrump.com"* citations again if they have information that is credible and can be cross-referenced.

Batter up, mi amigo.


----------



## Chillicothe

Well, poster* jc456,*  let's be direct here.
You asserted that '_ballot harvesting_' is a bad thing and should be discontinued.

Which begs the question:  Why?
What is wrong with it?
And what is wrong.....can it be fixed?
Not unimportantly, are there benefits that can be retained or improved?

In short, if you say it is bad......then explain yourself.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Vermont
> District of Columbia
> California
> New Jersey
> Colorado
> Hawaii
> Utah
> Washington
> Oregon



Fucking moron, Trump didn't contest any of those states or DC. There is something seriously wrong with you.

These are the contested states...


Arizona
Georgia
Michigan
Nevada
Pennsylvania
Wisconsin









						Narrow Wins In These Key States Powered Biden To The Presidency
					

Joe Biden topped President Trump by nearly 7 million votes, and 74 votes in the Electoral College, but his victory really was stitched together with narrow margins in key states.




					www.npr.org
				



And only one of those states, Nevada, sent out unsolicited ballots to all registered voters.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Turtlesoup said:


> Trump is lazy?  What the are you smoking?   He is notorious for rising early in the morning and working late into the night.    How do you  think he held so many rallies?


maybe 20 years ago.

now he is notorious for watching 8 hours of right wing TV a day and showing up for work at 11 am.

Get with the times, my man.


----------



## bripat9643

Chillicothe said:


> Well, poster* jc456,*  let's be direct here.
> You asserted that '_ballot harvesting_' is a bad thing and should be discontinued.
> 
> Which begs the question:  Why?
> What is wrong with it?
> And what is wrong.....can it be fixed?
> Not unimportantly, are there benefits that can be retained or improved?
> 
> In short, if you say it is bad......then explain yourself.\


Ballot harvesting facilitates fraud.

Why would we want to fix it when we can just get rid of it?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

bripat9643 said:


> Ballot harvesting facilitates fraud.


Yeah, like those zero times we have found lots of fake votes from ballot harvesting.

Just like that.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Fucking moron, Trump didn't contest any of those states or DC. There is something seriously wrong with you.
> 
> These are the contested states...
> 
> 
> Arizona
> Georgia
> Michigan
> Nevada
> Pennsylvania
> Wisconsin
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Narrow Wins In These Key States Powered Biden To The Presidency
> 
> 
> Joe Biden topped President Trump by nearly 7 million votes, and 74 votes in the Electoral College, but his victory really was stitched together with narrow margins in key states.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.npr.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And only one of those states, Nevada, sent out unsolicited ballots to all registered voters.


What do you believe "*send ballots ahead of the election automatically to registered voters" *means if not sent out unsolicited ballots to all registered voters?

Are you ever not a fucking moron?

Ever?


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> What do you believe "*send ballots ahead of the election automatically to registered voters" *means if not sent out unsolicited ballots to all registered voters?
> 
> Are you ever not a fucking moron?
> 
> Ever?



Holy fucking shit, you're an even bigger fucking moron than I ever realized.

Yes, fucking moron, "unsolicited ballots to all registered voters" means sending out ballots to them automatically.  That's what I was talking about when I said that occurred in only one contested state.

Contested states: _Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, *Nevada*, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin_

States mailing unsolicited ballots: _California, Colorado, DC, Hawaii, *Nevada*, New Jersey, Oregon, Utah, Vermont, Washington_ 

See that ^^^ fucking moron? Only one contested state, Nevada, sent out unsolicited ballots to all registered voters within their respective state (and DC).

You truly are, by far, the biggest fucking moron this site has ever seen.


----------



## eddiew37

Some truth for Bri
 There has never been anyone elected for any position in the history of America that was dumber and more corrupt than Trump……


----------



## Circe

bripat9643 said:


> What do you believe "*send ballots ahead of the election automatically to registered voters" *means if not sent out unsolicited ballots to all registered voters?


That's such a problem because of the very large unpurged voter lists: my daughter has been getting voter materials sent here for 20 years after she moved away! If they send mail-in ballots to those long-gone-elsewhere people, there would be a lot of people would send them in! I wouldn't, but some would. This is a terrible policy, and does make me suspect the validity of voting since they started it.


----------



## Circe

Speaking of Barr, I sent for his book, coming out next Tuesday.


----------



## eddiew37




----------



## Chillicothe

bripat9643 said:


> _Ballot harvesting facilitates fraud.
> Why would we want to fix it when we can just get rid of it?_



What is your definition of "ballot harvesting"?
Are there valid reasons for any of what you define as 'harvesting".


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Holy fucking shit, you're an even bigger fucking moron than I ever realized.
> 
> Yes, fucking moron, "unsolicited ballots to all registered voters" means sending out ballots to them automatically.  That's what I was talking about when I said that occurred in only one contested state.
> 
> Contested states: _Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, *Nevada*, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin_
> 
> States mailing unsolicited ballots: _California, Colorado, DC, Hawaii, *Nevada*, New Jersey, Oregon, Utah, Vermont, Washington_
> 
> See that ^^^ fucking moron? Only one contested state, Nevada, sent out unsolicited ballots to all registered voters within their respective state (and DC).
> 
> You truly are, by far, the biggest fucking moron this site has ever seen.


You didn't use the word "contested" that you are now using to save your sinking ship.


----------



## bripat9643

Circe said:


> That's such a problem because of the very large unpurged voter lists: my daughter has been getting voter materials sent here for 20 years after she moved away! If they send mail-in ballots to those long-gone-elsewhere people, there would be a lot of people would send them in! I wouldn't, but some would. This is a terrible policy, and does make me suspect the validity of voting since they started it.


Exactly!


----------



## bripat9643

eddiew37 said:


> Some truth for Bri
> There has never been anyone elected for any position in the history of America that was dumber and more corrupt than Trump……


Except for Biden, Obama, Carter, yada, yada, yada.


----------



## iceberg

surada said:


> How about Fox?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> President Trump: ‘The only way you’re going to stop drugs  is death penalty for drug dealers’
> 
> 
> Fox Bulletin readers are discussing: "They opened up the border, day one, they opened up the border," he said, adding that "through open borders come drugs and the drugs have never been as bad as they are now."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foxbulletin.com


what the fuck does this have to do with the OP? 

God you are a leaking bag of shit.


----------



## Flash

Americans are tired of the Deep State assholes like Barr that don't have clue what made this country great.

Where was Barr when the goddamn BLM Negroes were looting, murdering and destroying this country?  Not once did the Justice Department pursue the insurrection. 

None of the traitorous shitheads that tried to do a coup to remove Trump from office with illegal activities were ever brought to justice by Barr.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> You didn't use the word "contested" that you are now using to save your sinking ship.



LOLOL 

Fucking moron, *YOU even quoted me* using the word, _"contested."_ Here is YOUR quote...



bripat9643 said:


> _You lied.  Here is what you said:
> 
> "Do you realize only one of the *contested* states sent out unsolicited main-in ballots?"​_


_

[emphasis added to highlight what a monumental fucking moron you are]






_


----------



## Mac1958

Faun said:


> LOLOL
> 
> Fucking moron, *YOU even quoted me* using the word, _"contested."_ Here is YOUR quote...
> 
> ​
> 
> _[emphasis added to highlight what a monumental fucking moron you are]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


I admire your patience.


----------



## Faun

Mac1958 said:


> I admire your patience.



It's easy, he cracks me up with his stupidity.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> LOLOL
> 
> Fucking moron, *YOU even quoted me* using the word, _"contested."_ Here is YOUR quote...
> 
> ​
> 
> _[emphasis added to highlight what a monumental fucking moron you are]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


After the fact, douchebag.  That was several posts down the road from your initial claim, which reads as follows:


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> After the fact, douchebag.  That was several posts down the road from your initial claim, which reads as follows:



LOLOLOLOL 

I can't believe you're still digging your high heels in over this. You might just be the biggest fucking moron on the entire planet. Here was my *first* post about this, to which you replied...



Faun said:


> _Do you realize only one of the *contested* states sent out unsolicited main-in ballots?
> _



_[again, emphasis added to highlight just how yuge of a fucking moron you really are]_


----------



## eddiew37

bripat9643 said:


> You didn't use the word "contested" that you are now using to save your sinking ship.


Bri you still stand with Trump?
hey need to stop posting that they stand with Ukraine but also stand by rump​ 
Call off your violent insurgents and send them
To Ukraine to fight. Let them see what a real loss of freedom is.


----------



## bripat9643

eddiew37 said:


> Bri you still stand with Trump?
> hey need to stop posting that they stand with Ukraine but also stand by rump​
> 
> Call off your violent insurgents and send them
> To Ukraine to fight. Let them see what a real loss of freedom is.


The claim that you are on the same side as Ukraine doesn't pass the laugh test.  Biden was the one who extorted Ukraine.  He did it on video, chump.

No one is fooled.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> The claim that you are on the same side as Ukraine doesn't pass the laugh test.  Biden was the one who extorted Ukraine.  He did it on video, chump.
> 
> No one is fooled.



Poor, deranged fucking moron. 

Biden held up guaranteed loans from Ukraine for 6 hours to get a corrupt prosecutor fired *to benefit Ukraine*.

Trump held up military aid from Ukraine for 7 months *to benefit his own campaign* for re-election.

I would say it's a pity you're incapable of comprehending the difference but since you're not even capable of comprehending I said only one of the *contested* states from the 2020 election sent out unsolicited ballots, what's the point?


----------



## eddiew37

bri  you giving trump credit too?
rump Tries to Take Credit for Ukraine’s Resistance Against Russia … Days After Calling Putin a ‘Genius’ for Invading​rump Tries to Take Credit for Ukraine’s Resistance Against Russia … Days After Calling Putin a ‘Genius’ for Invading​The former president boasted that he sent Ukraine weapons, conveniently ignoring that he was impeached for delaying military aid to the country​ 
Former President Trump anointed himself a savior of the Ukraine resistance, a week after he called President Vladimir Putin a “genius,” “smart,” and a “peacekeeper” as Russian troops invaded separatist-backed regions in Ukraine.
During an interview with Maria Bartiromo on Fox News on Wednesday, Trump bragged about supplying Ukraine with weapons and military aid when he was president. “[Russia] is in much deeper than they thought, to a certain extent because of the weapons that I gave, and that the Ukrainians used so well … amazing,” he said.
Trump conveniently ignored that he was impeached for attempting to use said military aid as leverage to strong-arm Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky into digging up dirt on the Biden Family.









Ron Filipkowski

@RonFilipkowski
Trump says Ukraine is fighting well because of him: “Because of the weapons that I gave, and that the Ukrainians used so well .. amazing.” Then says we “have to work out a deal” with Russia, but they won’t because “they don’t respect the US” since he left office.
VIDEO 

Trump just last week called Putin a “genius” for sending tanks into eastern Ukraine. “That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen,” the former president said on a conservative podcast. “There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re going to keep the peace all right. Here’s a guy who’s very savvy … I know him very well. Very, very well.”
Despite his praise of Putin, Trump on Wednesday called the Russian president’s attack on a sovereign nation “a holocaust.” Russia has “to stop killing these people,” he told Bartiromo, saying that a “deal” might bring the conflict to an end.
“You have to work out a deal,” he said. “They have to stop killing these people. They’re killing all of these people, and they have to stop it, and they have to stop it now. But they don’t respect the United States and the United States is like, I don’t know, they’re not doing anything about it. This is a — this is a holocaust. This is a horrible thing that’s happening. You’re witnessing and you’re seeing it on television every night.”
“I think Russia, something could be done with them, because they are not looking so good,” Trump added. “But they don’t respect the United States, they aren’t doing anything about it.”
Trump has flip flopped frequently in recent weeks. In addition to praising Putin before backing Ukraine, he also gave himself credit for NATO’s existence, even though as president he threatened to withdraw the U.S. from the organization. “There would be no NATO if I didn’t act strongly and swiftly,” Trump said in a Monday statement. He also bragged about the weapons he reluctantly provided to Ukraine. “It was me that got Ukraine the very effective anti-tank busters (Javelins) when the previous Administration was sending blankets,” he wrote. “Let History so note!”
While the former president seems to fancy himself savvy in international relations, his former national security advisor, John Bolton, cast doubt on Trump’s knowledge of the region and his influence on Putin during his administration. “[Trump] barely knew where Ukraine was,” Bolton said in a recent appearance on far-right network Newsmax.


----------



## bripat9643

eddiew37 said:


> bri  you giving trump credit too?
> rump Tries to Take Credit for Ukraine’s Resistance Against Russia … Days After Calling Putin a ‘Genius’ for Invading​
> rump Tries to Take Credit for Ukraine’s Resistance Against Russia … Days After Calling Putin a ‘Genius’ for Invading​The former president boasted that he sent Ukraine weapons, conveniently ignoring that he was impeached for delaying military aid to the country​
> Former President Trump anointed himself a savior of the Ukraine resistance, a week after he called President Vladimir Putin a “genius,” “smart,” and a “peacekeeper” as Russian troops invaded separatist-backed regions in Ukraine.
> During an interview with Maria Bartiromo on Fox News on Wednesday, Trump bragged about supplying Ukraine with weapons and military aid when he was president. “[Russia] is in much deeper than they thought, to a certain extent because of the weapons that I gave, and that the Ukrainians used so well … amazing,” he said.
> Trump conveniently ignored that he was impeached for attempting to use said military aid as leverage to strong-arm Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky into digging up dirt on the Biden Family.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ron Filipkowski
> @RonFilipkowski
> Trump says Ukraine is fighting well because of him: “Because of the weapons that I gave, and that the Ukrainians used so well .. amazing.” Then says we “have to work out a deal” with Russia, but they won’t because “they don’t respect the US” since he left office.
> VIDEO
> 
> Trump just last week called Putin a “genius” for sending tanks into eastern Ukraine. “That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen,” the former president said on a conservative podcast. “There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re going to keep the peace all right. Here’s a guy who’s very savvy … I know him very well. Very, very well.”
> Despite his praise of Putin, Trump on Wednesday called the Russian president’s attack on a sovereign nation “a holocaust.” Russia has “to stop killing these people,” he told Bartiromo, saying that a “deal” might bring the conflict to an end.
> “You have to work out a deal,” he said. “They have to stop killing these people. They’re killing all of these people, and they have to stop it, and they have to stop it now. But they don’t respect the United States and the United States is like, I don’t know, they’re not doing anything about it. This is a — this is a holocaust. This is a horrible thing that’s happening. You’re witnessing and you’re seeing it on television every night.”
> “I think Russia, something could be done with them, because they are not looking so good,” Trump added. “But they don’t respect the United States, they aren’t doing anything about it.”
> Trump has flip flopped frequently in recent weeks. In addition to praising Putin before backing Ukraine, he also gave himself credit for NATO’s existence, even though as president he threatened to withdraw the U.S. from the organization. “There would be no NATO if I didn’t act strongly and swiftly,” Trump said in a Monday statement. He also bragged about the weapons he reluctantly provided to Ukraine. “It was me that got Ukraine the very effective anti-tank busters (Javelins) when the previous Administration was sending blankets,” he wrote. “Let History so note!”
> While the former president seems to fancy himself savvy in international relations, his former national security advisor, John Bolton, cast doubt on Trump’s knowledge of the region and his influence on Putin during his administration. “[Trump] barely knew where Ukraine was,” Bolton said in a recent appearance on far-right network Newsmax.


No one believes anything Dims claim about why they did something.  That's all just so much blather.  I didn't even bother to read the rest of your swill.

I don't give anyone credit but the Ukrainians.  However, the bottom line is that the Dims didn't help them.  The Dims tried to obstruct giving aid to them.  There is simply no denying that.


----------



## lennypartiv

Faun said:


> Trump held up military aid from Ukraine for 7 months *to benefit his own campaign* for re-election.


Trump was trying to get the truth to the American public.


----------



## Faun

lennypartiv said:


> Trump was trying to get the truth to the American public.



He should have done it legally then.


----------



## bendog

Have you ever wondered how fucked up Trump has to be in order to be told the truth that he's destroyed his own political future by both "Ballin" Bill Barr and Hanpatty?


----------



## lennypartiv

bendog said:


> Have you ever wondered how fucked up Trump has to be in order to be told the truth that he's destroyed his own political future by both "Ballin" Bill Barr and Hanpatty?


Barr isn't the good guy we thought he was.


----------



## Faun

lennypartiv said:


> Barr isn't the good guy we thought he was.



Sadly, your idea of a 'good guy' is anyone who breaks out their knee pads for Trump.


----------



## bendog

lennypartiv said:


> Barr isn't the good guy we thought he was.


I don't have a problem with him.  Trump was elected, and Trump therefore deserved a loyal, competent AG.  Barr did refuse to violate laws on his behalf.  Barr did render himself unemployable, but he's pretty much retired.  

I thought once that Barr participated in gassing protestors in Lafayatte Park just to gas them.  But I think it was later shown the media reports were incomplete.  Imo, he views presidential power too broadly, but he's hardly alone.


----------



## g5000

Flash said:


> Americans are tired of the Deep State assholes like Barr that don't have clue what made this country great.
> 
> Where was Barr when the goddamn BLM Negroes were looting, murdering and destroying this country?  Not once did the Justice Department pursue the insurrection.
> 
> None of the traitorous shitheads that tried to do a coup to remove Trump from office with illegal activities were ever brought to justice by Barr.


So THAT's why Trump hired Barr!  Because he was D33P STAIT.

"I hire only the best people."


----------



## g5000

bendog said:


> I don't have a problem with him.  Trump was elected, and Trump therefore deserved a loyal, competent AG.  Barr did refuse to violate laws on his behalf.  Barr did render himself unemployable, but he's pretty much retired.
> 
> I thought once that Barr participated in gassing protestors in Lafayatte Park just to gas them.  But I think it was later shown the media reports were incomplete.  Imo, he views presidential power too broadly, but he's hardly alone.


The AG does not owe loyalty to the president.  To the contrary.  They owe their loyalty to the United States and the Constitution.

Thank god.


----------



## bendog

g5000 said:


> The AG does not owe loyalty to the president.  To the contrary.  They owe their loyalty to the United States and the Constitution.
> 
> Thank god.


Well no one was willing to take the job.  Anyone owes loyalty to their boss until they're asked to to do something wrong.  Barr refused to help Trump try and steal the 20 election.  That may have saved the Republic.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Sadly, your idea of a 'good guy' is anyone who breaks out their knee pads for Trump.


That would be better than anyone who supports the corrupt senil pervert.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> That would be better than anyone who supports the corrupt senil pervert.



I know you're still looking, fucking moron ... have you found, _*"contested,"*_ yet??


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> I know you're still looking, fucking moron ... have you found, _*"contested,"*_ yet??


You can't argue with that, can you, FAUX?  Aren't you going to defend your favorite pedophile?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

bendog said:


> Well no one was willing to take the job.  Anyone owes loyalty to their boss until they're asked to to do something wrong.  Barr refused to help Trump try and steal the 20 election.  That may have saved the Republic.



Saved the Republic?    

Like there was ever any threat to it by a bunch of unarmed yahoos dressed like fake wrestlers.


----------



## pknopp

lennypartiv said:


> Trump was trying to get the truth to the American public.



 If he didn't relay it like a spoiled 10 year old maybe he could have.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> You can't argue with that, can you, FAUX?  Aren't you going to defend your favorite pedophile?



I see nothing about Trump to defend.


----------



## Astrostar

surada said:


> All the men around Trump were better men than he is.  You know they hated being stuck with him.. Trump wasted his presidency.


And they deserve no sympathy!  If they didn't know they were signing on with a lunatic, they were too stupid to hoid the positions in the first place.  Bigly!!!


----------



## Chillicothe

Ray From Cleveland said:


> _Like there was ever any threat to it by a bunch of unarmed yahoos dressed like fake wrestlers._



That is a gambit we've seen offered by several posters here.  Once they accepted that the 2,300 to 3,000 who broke the law were not ANTIFA, of FBI, well, now those law-breakers have morphed into fat guys wearing Carharts.....and thus posed no threat to anybody, let alone the United States of America.

Which means those pushing that narrative simply haven't read enough news about the investigation, and the continuing reportage.

Here's what I've seen, and it sounds plausible.  More plausible than the ANTIFA sillliness.

Those fat and old blokes were the cannon-fodder, the deus ex machina that offered the opportunity to declare an emergency, voiding the election in the contested states, install marshal law, and sending the vote back to Republican dominated state legislatures with their pre-arranged stockpile of 'alternate electors'. 

Yeah, I know it sounds nutso crazo.  Sounds like a lot of moving parts.
But the Eastman memo, the testimony about Giuliani's activities, and so on....sure seem pointed in that direction.
That's the scenario the reportage has more than hinted at.

So, while some here want to dress up the guys who beat the crap out of the police as just fat off-duty cops, or firemen, of ex-military who don't like Joe.....or even merely bedazzled selfie-takers who got caught up in the moment.....it seems there was a little more foreplay involved.

You don't recently purchase thousands of dollars worth of high capacity weaponry & ammo, transport it all the way to DC, and 'stage' it in a nearby hotel room and call it your "QRF" back-up.......just so you can have a cool-selfie.

Let us all hope that the Select Committee, who seem to be taking their responsibility seriously, can help America understand who the players were, what were their actions and their intentions. We need a fulsome exhaustive report on how January 6th came to be. Hold those responsible accountable. And establish the protocols so that such a fraught moment will not happen again in the United States of America.

ALL true citizen patriots want that.
Those who don't.......well then, they ain't.


----------



## Brain357

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> 
> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> Sarah K. Burris
> July 21, 2021
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.
> 
> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.
> 
> "I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> “There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020
> 
> Continued


Sounds like everyone who worked for trump.  It’s no surprise trump policy was a giant failure.


----------



## surada

Brain357 said:


> Sounds like everyone who worked for trump.  It’s no surprise trump policy was a giant failure.


They are birds of a feather.


----------



## bripat9643

Chillicothe said:


> That is a gambit we've seen offered by several posters here.  Once they accepted that the 2,300 to 3,000 who broke the law were not ANTIFA, of FBI, well, now those law-breakers have morphed into fat guys wearing Carharts.....and thus posed no threat to anybody, let alone the United States of America.
> 
> Which means those pushing that narrative simply haven't read enough news about the investigation, and the continuing reportage.
> 
> Here's what I've seen, and it sounds plausible.  More plausible than the ANTIFA sillliness.
> 
> Those fat and old blokes were the cannon-fodder, the deus ex machina that offered the opportunity to declare an emergency, voiding the election in the contested states, install marshal law, and sending the vote back to Republican dominated state legislatures with their pre-arranged stockpile of 'alternate electors'.
> 
> Yeah, I know it sounds nutso crazo.  Sounds like a lot of moving parts.
> But the Eastman memo, the testimony about Giuliani's activities, and so on....sure seem pointed in that direction.
> That's the scenario the reportage has more than hinted at.
> 
> So, while some here want to dress up the guys who beat the crap out of the police as just fat off-duty cops, or firemen, of ex-military who don't like Joe.....or even merely bedazzled selfie-takers who got caught up in the moment.....it seems there was a little more foreplay involved.
> 
> You don't recently purchase thousands of dollars worth of high capacity weaponry & ammo, transport it all the way to DC, and 'stage' it in a nearby hotel room and call it your "QRF" back-up.......just so you can have a cool-selfie.
> 
> Let us all hope that the Select Committee, who seem to be taking their responsibility seriously, can help America understand who the players were, what were their actions and their intentions. We need a fulsome exhaustive report on how January 6th came to be. Hold those responsible accountable. And establish the protocols so that such a fraught moment will not happen again in the United States of America.
> 
> ALL true citizen patriots want that.
> Those who don't.......well then, they ain't.


What the fuck are you talking about?


----------



## bripat9643

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> 
> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> Sarah K. Burris
> July 21, 2021
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.
> 
> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.
> 
> "I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> “There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020
> 
> Continued


Says who?   Unnamed sources, of course.  This is a prog fantasy, not reality


----------



## bripat9643

surada said:


> They are birds of a feather.


says the prog bird.


----------



## Chillicothe

bripat9643 said:


> _"What the fact are you talking about?"_



?????
Can you please explain that query?  Or at least, narrow it down so that it is answerable in a concise response?


----------



## surada

bripat9643 said:


> Says who?   Unnamed sources, of course.  This is a prog fantasy, not reality


Didn't you follow Trump. He destroyed his presidency.


----------



## bripat9643

Mac-7 said:


> Do libs never tire of repeating fake news?
> 
> This is no credible source for this lie


They don't care if it's credible.  They only care that it conforms to their fantasies.


----------



## Brain357

bripat9643 said:


> Says who?   Unnamed sources, of course.  This is a prog fantasy, not reality


As if there isn’t a long line of people who worked with trump that have similarly described him….  Are you really this dumb?


----------



## bripat9643

Chillicothe said:


> ?????
> Can you please explain that query?  Or at least, narrow it down so that it is answerable in a concise response?


I'm talking about your post.  It's nothing incoherent babbling.


----------



## bripat9643

Brain357 said:


> As if there isn’t a long line of people who worked with trump that have similarly described him….  Are you really this dumb?


In other words, you admit there are no credible sources for your claim.


----------



## surada

bripat9643 said:


> says the prog bird.


 So many Trump associates have been indicted.. they are a rotten bunch.


----------



## bripat9643

surada said:


> So many Trump associates have been indicted.. they are a rotten bunch.


What "Trump associates" have been indicted, and for what?  How many people that know Biden have been indicted?  I'm sure it's in the hundreds.


----------



## surada

bripat9643 said:


> They don't care if it's credible.  They only care that it conforms to their fantasies.


Oh it's credible. Trump has a long history as. A cheat, liar and bully.


----------



## surada

bripat9643 said:


> What "Trump associates" have been indicted, and for what?  How many people that know Biden have been indicted?  I'm sure it's in the hundreds.


Look it up. The list is too long to memorize.


----------



## bripat9643

surada said:


> Oh it's credible. Trump has a long history as. A cheat, liar and bully.


Prove it's credible. We already know you believe it.


----------



## bripat9643

surada said:


> Look it up. The list is too long to memorize.


In other words, you can't name any.


----------



## Brain357

bripat9643 said:


> In other words, you admit there are no credible sources for your claim.


Again.  Given that there is a long, long list of people that have similar comments after working with trump, you would be surprised at these being true?


----------



## Brain357

List is probably even longer now








						Analysis: 11 Trump associates have now been charged with crimes. 11!
					

There's an old saying that goes something like this: You can judge a man by the company he keeps. Which spells trouble for Donald Trump.




					amp.cnn.com


----------



## Chillicothe

bripat9643 said:


> _your post. It's nothing incoherent babbling._


Well, perhaps if the good poster, *L'il Bripat,* would have actually read the post......then he'd be in a position to respond in a more thoughtful and reflective manner.  In a manner that could, perhaps, advance adult discourse on the topic.

Reading is a learned skill that throughout the world, throughout humanity's written history, has proven to be invaluable in advancing understanding, and indeed advancing civilization.

So, we wish *L'il Bripat* a productive journey in his efforts to understand this complex and nuance world he lives in.

Good luck.


----------



## Brain357

A long list 








						The long list of Trump administration officials turned critics
					

Having overseen the highest turnover rate in presidential history, President Donald Trump was bound to have a few disgruntled ex-aides.




					amp.cnn.com


----------



## bripat9643

Brain357 said:


> Again.  Given that there is a long, long list of people that have similar comments after working with trump, you would be surprised at these being true?


There's a long list of douchebags trying to make money selling books.  That's all.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> 
> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> Sarah K. Burris
> July 21, 2021
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.
> 
> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.
> 
> "I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> “There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020
> 
> Continued


RawStory lol


----------



## bripat9643

Brain357 said:


> A long list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The long list of Trump administration officials turned critics
> 
> 
> Having overseen the highest turnover rate in presidential history, President Donald Trump was bound to have a few disgruntled ex-aides.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amp.cnn.com



All your article says is that the Swamp didn't like Trump.  I wouldn't support Trump if these vermin liked him.


----------



## Brain357

bripat9643 said:


> There's a long list of douchebags trying to make money selling books.  That's all.


Trump only hires the best right?


----------



## Brain357

bripat9643 said:


> All your article says is that the Swamp didn't like Trump.  I wouldn't support Trump if these vermin liked him.


Generals are the swamp now?  Business people?  Ah the party of excuses….


----------



## bripat9643

Chillicothe said:


> Well, perhaps if the good poster, *L'il Bripat,* would have actually read the post......then he'd be in a position to respond in a more thoughtful and reflective manner.  In a manner that could, perhaps, advance adult discourse on the topic.
> 
> Reading is a learned skill that throughout the world, throughout humanity's written history, has proven to be invaluable in advancing understanding, and indeed advancing civilization.
> 
> So, we wish *L'il Bripat* a productive journey in his efforts to understand this complex and nuance world he lives in.
> 
> Good luck.


I did respond to your incoherent babbling in a thoughtful and reflective manner.  I pointed out that is was incoherent babbling.  It was nothing more than mental masturbation.


----------



## bripat9643

Brain357 said:


> Trump only hires the best right?


DId he hire any of the people mentioned?


----------



## Brain357

bripat9643 said:


> DId he hire any of the people mentioned?


They were all part of his administration.


----------



## bripat9643

Brain357 said:


> List is probably even longer now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Analysis: 11 Trump associates have now been charged with crimes. 11!
> 
> 
> There's an old saying that goes something like this: You can judge a man by the company he keeps. Which spells trouble for Donald Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amp.cnn.com


So if we went down a list of people who have ever had any contact with Biden, even indirect, how many would we find that had some trouble with the law?  Is that your sleazy standard?


----------



## Brain357

bripat9643 said:


> So if we went down a list of people who have ever had any contact with Biden, even indirect, how many would we find that had some trouble with the law?  Is that your sleazy standard?


These are all close trump associates.  Let’s hear your Biden list.


----------



## bripat9643

Brain357 said:


> They were all part of his administration.





Brain357 said:


> They were all part of his administration.


What part of the administration was Roger Stone in?  Paul Manafort? Michael Cohen?

Keep in mind that these people only had problems with the law because sleazy Dim prosecutors were looking to nail anyone associated with Trump.  There are thousands of Dims guilty of far more than anyone on your list.


----------



## bripat9643

Brain357 said:


> These are all close trump associates.  Let’s hear your Biden list.


No, they are not "CLOSE" Trump associates.  His gardener has a close association.


----------



## Brain357

bripat9643 said:


> What part of the administration was Roger Stone in?  Paul Manafort? Michael Cohen?
> 
> Keep in mind that these people only had problems with the law because sleazy Dim prosecutors were looking to nail anyone associated with Trump.  There are thousands of Dims guilty of far more than anyone on your list.


Close associates, some were part of the administration.  You keep moving the bar, it’s funny.


----------



## Brain357

bripat9643 said:


> No, they are not "CLOSE" Trump associates.  His gardener has a close association.


Getting him elected and working for the administration is quite close.


----------



## bripat9643

Brain357 said:


> Generals are the swamp now?  Business people?  Ah the party of excuses….


Yes, a lot of generals are part of the swamp.  Generals are all politicians.


----------



## bripat9643

Brain357 said:


> Close associates, some were part of the administration.  You keep moving the bar, it’s funny.


No, you keep moving the bar.  You said they were part of his administration.


----------



## Brain357

It must be a lot of work to be dishonest and defend trump failures.  How do you have the energy?


----------



## bripat9643

Brain357 said:


> Getting him elected and working for the administration is quite close.


Every precinct worker in bum-fuck Idaho worked to get him elected, moron.


----------



## Brain357

Brain357 said:


> These are all close trump associates.  Let’s hear your Biden list.


No I said associates.   Why do you lie constantly?  Everyone can go back and look.  And there it is above .


----------



## bripat9643

Brain357 said:


> It must be a lot of work to be dishonest and defend trump failures.  How do you have the energy?


It's easy because all the attacks on Trump are so obvious and pathetic.


----------



## Brain357

bripat9643 said:


> Every precinct worked in bum-fuck Idaho worked to get him elected, moron.


Trumps campaign manager is one.


----------



## Brain357

bripat9643 said:


> It's easy because all the attacks on Trump are so obvious and pathetic.


They are facts.


----------



## bripat9643

Brain357 said:


> They were all part of his administration.


Every employee of Health and Human Services was part of his administration.  That criteria is meaningless.  On the other hand, Roger Stone and others were not part of his administration.


----------



## bripat9643

Brain357 said:


> Trumps campaign manager is one.


He was fired long before the election, moron.


----------



## Brain357

You need to start caring about your country and abandon the failure.


----------



## bripat9643

Brain357 said:


> They are facts.


Meaningless irrelevant facts.


----------



## Brain357

bripat9643 said:


> He was fired long before the election, moron.


And yet he was close to trump like everyone else on the list.  Flynn was in the administration.


----------



## Brain357

bripat9643 said:


> Meaningless irrelevant facts.


Only if you have no morals and don’t care about your country.


----------



## Brain357

bripat9643 said:


> Yes, a lot of generals are part of the swamp.  Generals are all politicians.


Business leaders too I guess.  Trump sure failed at hiring good people it seems.


----------



## bripat9643

Brain357 said:


> Business leaders too I guess.  Trump sure failed at hiring good people it seems.


I'm sure there are vast hoards of criminals who work for some "business leader."


----------



## bripat9643

Brain357 said:


> Only if you have no morals and don’t care about your country.


No, only if you are capable of committing logic.


----------



## bripat9643

Brain357 said:


> And yet he was close to trump like everyone else on the list.  Flynn was in the administration.


Flynn was in the administration, but the charges against him were dropped.  The whole thing was a scam.  Comey, Stzrok and others deserve to go to jail for framing Flynn.


----------



## Brain357

bripat9643 said:


> I'm sure there are vast hoards of criminals who work for some "business leader."


Trump sure failed to hire anyone good.  I guess swampy people hire swampy people.


----------



## Brain357

bripat9643 said:


> Flynn was in the administration, but the charges against him were dropped.  The whole thing was a scam.  Comey, Stzrok and others deserve to go to jail for framing Flynn.


Flynn pleaded guilty…

bannon was in administration too.


----------



## bripat9643

Brain357 said:


> Trump sure failed to hire anyone good.  I guess swampy people hire swampy people.


You'll have to excuse me if I don't accept "good" to mean a corrupt, conniving, America-hating scumbag.


----------



## bripat9643

Brain357 said:


> Trump sure failed to hire anyone good.  I guess swampy people hire swampy people.


The problem is he hired a lot of douchebags from the swamp.  He didn't have any other choice


----------



## bripat9643

Brain357 said:


> Flynn pleaded guilty…
> 
> bannon was in administration too.


He plead guilty or faced bankruptcy, you fucking douchebag.    That's how government extortion works.


----------



## Brain357

bripat9643 said:


> You'll have to excuse me if I don't accept "good" to mean a corrupt, conniving, America-hating scumbag.


Well you’ve talk about how bad they all were.  Huge trump failure.


----------



## Brain357

bripat9643 said:


> The problem is he hired a lot of douchebags from the swamp.  He didn't have any other choice


Douchebags hire douchebags.


----------



## Brain357

bripat9643 said:


> He plead guilty or faced bankruptcy, you fucking douchebag.    That's how government extortion works.


He pleaded guilty.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> He plead guilty or faced bankruptcy, you fucking douchebag.    That's how government extortion works.



So being in prison is better than being broke, fucking moron?


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> So being in prison is better than being broke, fucking moron?


The DOJ imposed that choice on him, you fucking dumbass.  That's what extortion is.

Please quit pretending to be even dumber than you actually are.


----------



## Chillicothe

Chillicothe said:


> _Let us all hope that the Select Committee...........can help America understand who the players were, what were their actions and their intentions. We need a fulsome exhaustive report on how January 6th came to be. Hold those responsible accountable._





bripat9643 said:


> _I did respond to your incoherent babbling in a thoughtful and reflective manner. I pointed out that is was incoherent babbling._


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, my avatar wants to be very clear, this response is NOT a response to the poster,* L'il Bripat.* That, it seems, is a dry hole.  IMO.

Rather, lemme expand on the post in question...*#508.*
That post attempted to articulate a summary of some of the reportage, of some of the Select Committee's communications.

And the narrative my avatar intended to frame was:  
There seems to have been an intent, a motivation to stop the counting of the Electoral Vote.

First, by Mike Pence rejecting the counts from targetted states;
Second, to incite enough anger in an intentionally assembled MAGAHat crowd (_"come to DC, it_ _will be wild")_ to  stop the count physically. Even violently, if need be.

And thus, intiate an _'national emergency'_ declared by executive order, perhaps impose martial law.  But send the Electoral College vote back to Republican controlled legistures with their pre-loaded 'alternate Electors'.

That seems to be what the reportage and the investigation is framing.

Now, if some posters wish to dispute that in whole or in detail....please do so. But do so in an articulate thoughtful manner.  

Why is what I posted wrong?
What part?
All?
Or detail?

And any respondents are welcome to offer alternative scenarios to what the reportage seem to indicate.

A give and take of plausible,articulate, and respectful exchanges is what adult discussion is all about.

Also, and again, I do not want to make this particular post a dissing of *L'il Bripat*......but, the very first part of an informed exchange is to actually read post #508 in its' entirety.


----------



## bripat9643

Brain357 said:


> Trump sure failed to hire anyone good.  I guess swampy people hire swampy people.


Dims are the swamp, moron.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Brain357 said:


> Business leaders too I guess.  Trump sure failed at hiring good people it seems.



Not everybody has a kanck at it like Biden does.


----------



## bripat9643

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Not everybody has a kanck at it like Biden does.
> 
> View attachment 610763


You could say that about every member of Biden's cabinet.

Kamila Harris?  Loser
Pete Buttigieg - Loser
Merrick Garland - Loser
Jennifer Granholm - Loser
Alejandro Mayorkas - Loser
Xavier Becerra - Loser
Antony Blinken - Loser
Janet Yellen - Loser


----------



## para bellum

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Not everybody has a kanck at it like Biden does.


Biden is just waiting for the right moment to unleash his trans admiral on Putin. Ol' Vlad doesn't know what's in store for him!


----------



## para bellum

bripat9643 said:


> The problem is he hired a lot of douchebags from the swamp.  He didn't have any other choice


That was a big part of it. At the top level, he had to pick people that could survive the Senate confirmation process. That means someone who is friendly to the established order.

In the meantime, he has "acting" directors of the agencies who are carryovers from previous administrations. Obama was smart to load the agencies down 3 or 4 layers with his own political operatives, because there was a replacement in waiting when the top position went open. That's pretty important considering the criminality that took place.

Trump inherited an administrative State that actively opposed him, and his cabinet was not very effective at getting his policies implemented or enforced. Tillerson spent more time representing the State Dept. to Trump, than he did telling the people at State what the new policies would be, and to get after it. 

The DOJ and intelligence community continued to pursue him over the phony Russia narrative.

I think Barr really did want to clean up the FBI, but in the end he just punted. So I guess my response to him would be that _he_ didn't have the temperament to do what was needed to restore the reputation of the FBI, so his criticism of Trump I will just ignore, thank you very much.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

bripat9643 said:


> You could say that about every member of Biden's cabinet.
> 
> Kamila Harris?  Loser
> Pete Buttigieg - Loser
> Merrick Garland - Loser
> Jennifer Granholm - Loser
> Alejandro Mayorkas - Loser
> Xavier Becerra - Loser
> Antony Blinken - Loser
> Janet Yellen - Loser



You forgot the biggest clown of all, John FFFFFFF Kerry.  This is the closest the US has ever been to a potentially nuclear war and this joker is crying about the carbon emissions this war is leaving behind.  Forget the people who are dying, who are injured for life, we need to be concerned that they don't cause too much pollution. 









						John Kerry’s deadly Ukraine hot air
					

Proving that he’s still the same old clueless gasbag, ex-Secretary of State John Kerry has flagged the great worry about Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine: It will lead to “massive emissio…




					nypost.com


----------



## Lesh

bripat9643 said:


> Flynn was in the administration, but the charges against him were dropped.


Because of Barr's interference


----------



## bripat9643

Lesh said:


> Because of Barr's interference


That's his job, dumbass.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Brain357 said:


> Flynn pleaded guilty…
> 
> bannon was in administration too.


Flynn was a felon who admitted guilty 3 times, officially.

Trump sure likes to collect felons.


----------



## bripat9643

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Flynn was a felon who admitted guilty 3 times, officially.
> 
> Trump sure likes to collect felons.


He's not a felon if he's not convicted, and the DOJ threw out the charged.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

bripat9643 said:


> He's not a felon if he's not convicted, and the DOJ threw out the charged.


Guilty pleas, accepted.

Also admitted his guilt 3 times.

But he isn't a felon to you, because you enjoy slobbing the knobs of foreign agents who the mentally ill orange pile of shit appointed head our national security.


----------



## bripat9643

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Guilty pleas, accepted.
> 
> Also admitted his guilt 3 times.
> 
> But he isn't a felon to you, because you enjoy slobbing the knobs of foreign agents who the mentally ill orange pile of shit appointed head our national security.


The guilty please were the result of extortion.  He "admitted" what he was ordered to admit.  That means nothing.

Please don't pretend you're a bigger fool than anyone knows you are.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

bripat9643 said:


> The guilty please were the result of extortion.


Embarrassing, predictable cult fantasy. I am embarrassed for you.


----------



## bripat9643

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Embarrassing, predictable cult fantasy. I am embarrassed for you.


Hmmm, no.  Those are just plain facts.  Flynn either plead guilty or mueller was going to bankrupt him and go after his son.  Nobody denies it, not even brainwashed progs like you   That fits the definition of extortion.  That's what you support.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

bripat9643 said:


> Hmmm, no.  Those are just plain facts.  Flynn either plead guilty or mueller was going to bankrupt him and go after his son.  Nobody denies it, not even brainwashed progs like you   That fits the definition of extortion.  That's what you support.


Nope, utter cultist fantasy. His felonies were proven in court many times over.

That's why the felon admitted to being a felon.

And took a plea deal to snitch on the remaining  cult High priests..  .

That's your boy...the foreign agent felon snitch....


----------



## bripat9643

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Nope, utter cultist fantasy. His felonies were proven in court many times over.
> 
> That's why the felon admitted to being a felon.
> 
> And took a plea deal to snitch on the remaining  cult High priests..  .
> 
> That's your boy...the foreign agent felon snitch....


They certainly were not.  His case never went to trial. 

It takes a special kind of moron to make the claims that you make.,

He "took" a plea deal because he had a gun pointed at his head.   There's nothing voluntary about what he had to do.  It should be illegal for prosecutors to offer plead deals.


----------



## lennypartiv

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> But he isn't a felon to you, because you enjoy slobbing the knobs of foreign agents who the mentally ill orange pile of shit appointed head our national security.


He was exonerated.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

bripat9643 said:


> They certainly were not. His case never went to trial.


Yes, that is what happens when you plead guilty before the trial.

Damn son. You are embarrassing yourself.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ironically, in his bid to weasel out of his felonies, Flynn committed another felony by perjuring himself.

Two intentional, contradictory statements, made under oath.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> The DOJ imposed that choice on him, you fucking dumbass.  That's what extortion is.
> 
> Please quit pretending to be even dumber than you actually are.



You didn't answer my question, fucking moron...

Which is worse... being in prison or being broke?


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> You didn't answer my question, fucking moron...
> 
> Which is worse... being in prison or being broke?



Flynn wasn't given such a choice.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> He's not a felon if he's not convicted, and the DOJ threw out the charged.



LOL

They threw out the charge *after* he was convicted. Only the court or a pardon could wash away that conviction. The court didn't but Trump's pardon did.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Flynn wasn't given such a choice.



You said he had a choice, fucking moron...

_*Fucking Moron: *"He plead guilty *OR* faced bankruptcy"

[emphasis added to highlight a fucking moron's bullshit]_​
Now stop being such a pussy and answer the question...

Which is worse, going to prison or going broke?


----------



## Faun

lennypartiv said:


> He was exonerated.



Nope, he was forgiven. A pardon is the government forgiving someone of their crime. It's not exoneration.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> LOL
> 
> They threw out the charge *after* he was convicted. Only the court or a pardon could wash away that conviction. The court didn't but Trump's pardon did.


Of course no Biden dick sucking prog is will allow anyone to forget it.  The prosecutor dropped the charges.  end of story.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> You said he had a choice, fucking moron...
> 
> _*Fucking Moron: *"He plead guilty *OR* faced bankruptcy"_​​_[emphasis added to highlight a fucking moron's bullshit]_​
> Now stop being such a pussy and answer the question...
> 
> Which is worse, going to prison or going broke?


I'm not going to argue with a psycho over this trivia.


----------



## colfax_m

bripat9643 said:


> Flynn wasn't given such a choice.


He dicked around with the court system for over 2 years. Don’t tell me any nonsense that he had to plead to avoid bankruptcy.

That’s the nonsense that people tell morons to believe.


----------



## theHawk

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> 
> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> Sarah K. Burris
> July 21, 2021
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.
> 
> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.
> 
> "I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> “There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020
> 
> Continued


Wow, another fictional book for you lefties.


----------



## bripat9643

colfax_m said:


> He dicked around with the court system for over 2 years. Don’t tell me any nonsense that he had to plead to avoid bankruptcy.
> 
> That’s the nonsense that people tell morons to believe.


you call "he dicked around with the court system for 2 years" an argument?  I call it babbling.


----------



## colfax_m

bripat9643 said:


> you call "he dicked around with the court system for 2 years" an argument?  I call it babbling.


Your argument is that he pled guilty because he couldn’t afford a legal defense.

Well, he could afford to waste two years of the courts time with frivolous nonsense so your argument is clearly bullshit.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

And by accepting the pardon, Flynn admitted his guilty officially for the third time.

Just your run of the mill, foreign-agent-appointed-head-of-national-security-turned-felon .

Only the best people!


----------



## bripat9643

colfax_m said:


> Your argument is that he pled guilty because he couldn’t afford a legal defense.
> 
> Well, he could afford to waste two years of the courts time with frivolous nonsense so your argument is clearly bullshit.


Mueller wasted the court's time, numbnuts.


----------



## Leweman

And then Trump pissed in his face.


----------



## bripat9643

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> And by accepting the pardon, Flynn admitted his guilty officially for the third time.
> 
> Just your run of the mill, foreign-agent-appointed-head-of-national-security-turned-felon .
> 
> Only the best people!


Only according to a legal fiction, Not in reality.  Nothing done as a result of complusion can be considered valid.


----------



## colfax_m

bripat9643 said:


> Mueller wasted the court's time, numbnuts.


Mueller wasn’t the one that filed frivolous claim after frivolous claim and attempted to switch their guilty plea years after it was first pled.

Just stop now. You’re ignorance is going to be more apparent the longer you keep this up.


----------



## Chillicothe

Poster Colfax.......I admire your patience.
Or perhaps, it is your tolerance.
Or perhaps, it's your endurance.

There are some contributors here where there is the surface appearance of an 'exchange'......but in reality it is just dancing with a broomstick, I suppose.  
It may look interactive.....but it ain't.


----------



## bripat9643

colfax_m said:


> Mueller wasn’t the one that filed frivolous claim after frivolous claim and attempted to switch their guilty plea years after it was first pled.
> 
> Just stop now. You’re ignorance is going to be more apparent the longer you keep this up.


Mueller prosecuted him with smears and lies, you colosal dumfuck.  What you object to is a person using his Constitutional right to defend himself.  You're a fucking NAZI.


----------



## colfax_m

bripat9643 said:


> Mueller prosecuted him with smears and lies, you colosal dumfuck.  What you object to is a person using his Constitutional right to defend himself.  You're a fucking NAZI.


There were zero smears and zero lies (other than the ones that Flynn told).

Flynn certainly had the cash to drag his court case out for years. Don’t lie and tell me he pled guilty to avoid a lengthy legal battle when he subsequently engaged in a lengthy legal battle.

Jesus, can you not see how they’re gaslighting you?


----------



## Chillicothe

bripat9643 said:


> _"you colosal dumfuck."_


(see post 609 for context)


Sincere query to the good poster *L'il Bripat*:  Have you ever contributed a thoughtful insightful post to this chatroom?  If you have, can you link us?

What I have seen in the year that I've lurked here is your consistent and prolific use of epithets and crass vulgarities.

I can't recall any contribution that appeared as a sincere exchange of considered views.
Only tantrumy stuff aptly illustrated by your avatar picture.

It is sad you are unable to contribute in an adult manner.
But you be you.
After all, not infrequently I find your tantrums entertaining, in a fashion.
Kinda sorta like watching a fly whose wings have been plucked off.

Good luck though, we wish you better success in other endeavors in your life.


----------



## para bellum

I can't believe the obsession with Flynn. He didn't do anything wrong, the FBI admitted that there were no inappropriate contacts with foreign parties. Mueller too.

It is completely normal for the people in an incoming administration to talk to their counterparts from other countries. It happens every time a new President is elected. The Obama administration was pushing a lie about Trump and Russia, the Russians knew it was a lie, the Trump people knew it was a lie, and the FBI knew it was a lie.

Flynn told Kislyak not to overreact to the sanctions Obama has imposed for Russian "interference". That is not an inappropriate thing for Flynn to say. The FBI knew exactly what Flynn said, they were tapping the call. They had no reason to even question him about it. Flynn was fired for not telling Pence the exchange with Kislyak took place, because a reporter asked Pence about the call and Pence said Flynn hadn't talked about the sanctions or something to that effect. That wasn't exactly true, and it embarrassed Pence that he said it.

The FBI put Flynn in a perjury trap, bankrupted him with legal expenses, and coerced a guilty plea by threatening to prosecute his son. Meanwhile, ther same FBI people were lying to the FISA court to secure their warrants to spy on Trump. It's completely outrageous.

The FBI is a joke, they have lost all credibility and it cannot be restored. They don't even record their interviews. They take notes and write up a 302 later, and somehow that's supposed to be an objective account?

All the resources of the combined intelligence services of the US, the investigatory power of the Congress, Attorney Generals and District Attorneys in multiple States, and all the prosecutions of the people in Trump's orbit- 6 years later, not one single criminal charge has been brought against Trump. He must be the most investigated person in US history.

Not content, the dems twice impeached him- which destroyed the impeachment clause by making impeachment a political weapon, instead of the Constitutional remedy for criminality or Treason by high officials that the Framers intended.


----------



## bripat9643

colfax_m said:


> There were zero smears and zero lies (other than the ones that Flynn told).
> 
> Flynn certainly had the cash to drag his court case out for years. Don’t lie and tell me he pled guilty to avoid a lengthy legal battle when he subsequently engaged in a lengthy legal battle.
> 
> Jesus, can you not see how they’re gaslighting you?


Pure horseshit.  The whole Russian collusion scam has been proven to be lie.  Every accusation Mueller made about Flynn has been proven to be a lie.

The fact that Flynn paid out every dime he had, and even had to mortgage his house to pay his legal bills, shows what a callous insufferable NAZI douchebag you are.


----------



## colfax_m

bripat9643 said:


> Pure horseshit.  The whole Russian collusion scam has been proven to be lie.  Every accusation Mueller made about Flynn has been proven to be a lie.
> 
> The fact that Flynn paid out every dime he had, and even had to mortgage his house to pay his legal bills, shows what a callous insufferable NAZI douchebag you are.


He drug his legal battle out for two years and tried to reverse his guilty plea at the very end.

Tell me how he was compelled to plead guilty to avoid legal bills when he then decided to accumulate far more legal bills?

It makes no sense.


----------



## bripat9643

colfax_m said:


> He drug his legal battle out for two years and tried to reverse his guilty plea at the very end.


YEah?   That's called exercising your Constitutional right to defend yourself.  It's not a crime to defend yourself against the government, you fucking dingbat NAZI.



colfax_m said:


> Tell me how he was compelled to plead guilty to avoid legal bills when he then decided to accumulate far more legal bills?
> 
> It makes no sense.


Because without Mueller prosecuting him, he wouldn't have had any legal bills, you fucking NAZI moron. Do you believe Flynn volunteered to be prosecuted by Mueller?  Do you believe criminal prosecutions are voluntary on the part of the defendant?

What kind of a fucking moron are you?


----------



## postman

bripat9643 said:


> The fact that Flynn paid out every dime he had, and even had to mortgage his house to pay his legal bills, shows what a callous insufferable NAZI douchebag you are.



The fact that Michael Flynn was GUILTY AS CHARGED, shows what an idiot you are.

Flynn lied to Mike Pences face.  And then lied again to the FBI.


----------



## postman

.





colfax_m said:


> He drug his legal battle out for two years and tried to reverse his guilty plea at the very end.
> 
> Tell me how he was compelled to plead guilty to avoid legal bills when he then decided to accumulate far more legal bills?
> 
> It makes no sense.





bripat9643 said:


> YEah?   That's called exercising your Constitutional right to defend yourself.  It's not a crime to defend yourself against the government, you fucking dingbat NAZI


Let me get this straight.  Defending yourself is what you do AFTER you plead guilty?

What crazy world are you from?


----------



## bripat9643

postman said:


> The fact that Michael Flynn was GUILTY AS CHARGED, shows what an idiot you are.
> 
> Flynn lied to Mike Pences face.  And then lied again to the FBI.



That's nothing but your opinion.  It has no credibility.  Lying to Mike Pence was not a crime, you NAZI moron.


----------



## bripat9643

postman said:


> .
> 
> Let me get this straight.  Defending yourself is what you do AFTER you plead guilty?
> 
> What crazy world are you from?


You're too stupid to waste time arguing with.


----------



## postman

bripat9643 said:


> Because without Mueller prosecuting him, he wouldn't have had any legal bills, you fucking NAZI moron. Do you believe Flynn volunteered to be prosecuted by Mueller?  Do you believe criminal prosecutions are voluntary on the part of the defendant?
> 
> What kind of a fucking moron are you?



Actually Flynn was fired because he lied to Mike Pence, and then he was prosecuted because he lied to the FBI.  To avoid legal bills, stop breaking the f***** law.


----------



## postman

bripat9643 said:


> That's nothing but your opinion.  It has no credibility.  Lying to Mike Pence was not a crime, you NAZI moron.


Flynn repeated those lies to the FBI.  Which is a crime.

Flynn talking to the Russians probably wasn't a crime.  But telling the FBI he never talked to the Russians is a crime.


----------



## postman

bripat9643 said:


> You're too stupid to waste time arguing with.


That's like closing the barn door after the horse gets out.

If you don't start defending yourself until AFTER you plead guilty, that's not defending yourself.


----------



## postman

I'm supposed to feel sorry for somebody who lied about something that probably wasn't even a crime?

That's like going to a marijuana store in Colorado, and when a cop asks what you're doing in the store, lying to the cop, that you're not there to buy weed.

Geeze man.   you could have just plead the 5th.


----------



## bripat9643

postman said:


> Actually Flynn was fired because he lied to Mike Pence, and then he was prosecuted because he lied to the FBI.  To avoid legal bills, stop breaking the f***** law.


He didn't break the law.  That's a Mueller lie.  The bottom line is that he plead guilty only because of Mueller's extortion.  No admission of guilt that is the result of government compulsion is worth spit.


----------



## bripat9643

postman said:


> That's like closing the barn door after the horse gets out.
> 
> If you don't start defending yourself until AFTER you plead guilty, that's not defending yourself.


Spare us the NAZI horseshit.  He plead guilty only because Mueller held a gun to his head.  That plea is worth exactly zero.


----------



## bripat9643

postman said:


> I'm supposed to feel sorry for somebody who lied about something that probably wasn't even a crime?]


If it wasn't a crime, then why did Mueller prosecute him?  You're admitting that you don't have a problem with the government ruining someone's life when it knows the target of their prosecution is innocent.

You're a fuckng NAZI.



postman said:


> That's like going to a marijuana store in Colorado, and when a cop asks what you're doing in the store, lying to the cop, that you're not there to buy weed.
> 
> Geeze man.   you could have just plead the 5th.



How would that be a crime?  What business is it of the cop why you're in the store?


----------



## postman

bripat9643 said:


> He didn't break the law.  That's a Mueller lie.


If he didn't break the law, he did so by lying to the FBI.


----------



## Dragonlady

bripat9643 said:


> That's nothing but your opinion.  It has no credibility.  Lying to Mike Pence was not a crime, you NAZI moron.



You're defending lying, you moron.  Lying in most cases is not a crime, but if you lie to your bank manager, your loan application will be refused, even if your credit rating is good, and you have collateral.  As a bank manager, if I can't trust you to tell me the truth, I can't trust you to pay back this loan.

As an employer, if an employee lies to me, you're fired.  

As a wife, when I caught my husband lying to me, I threw his ass out.

There isn't a single instance where lying to anyone in a material matter is a good thing.

It's even in the Bible:  Thou shalt not bear false witness.  That's a mortal sin, son.


----------



## postman

bripat9643 said:


> Spare us the NAZI horseshit.  He plead guilty only because Mueller held a gun to his head.  That plea is worth exactly zero.


He plead guilty because they had a NSA intercept of him talking to the Russians.  But then Flynn lied to the Vice President that he didn't do what they had a recording of him doing.  That's why he got fired.

Then to top it off, Flynn lied to the FBI.  When he could have just kept his mouth shut.


----------



## postman

bripat9643 said:


> If it wasn't a crime, then why did Mueller prosecute him?


Because Flynn was dumb enough to lie to the FBI.

Just ask Martha Stewart why that isn't a good idea.


----------



## Dragonlady

bripat9643 said:


> He didn't break the law.  That's a Mueller lie.  The bottom line is that he plead guilty only because of Mueller's extortion.  No admission of guilt that is the result of government compulsion is worth spit.



Why is it that everyone is lying except Donald Trump and the criminals working for them?????

Mueller is lying, the Democrats are lying, the FBI is lying, the Courts are lying, the Republican Senate Investigation into Russian election interference is lying, the press is lying.

Donald Trump and General Flynn are the only ones telling the truth.  Yeah.  Right.


----------



## 22lcidw

Dragonlady said:


> You're defending lying, you moron.  Lying in most cases is not a crime, but if you lie to your bank manager, your loan application will be refused, even if your credit rating is good, and you have collateral.  As a bank manager, if I can't trust you to tell me the truth, I can't trust you to pay back this loan.
> 
> As an employer, if an employee lies to me, you're fired.
> 
> As a wife, when I caught my husband lying to me, I threw his ass out.
> 
> There isn't a single instance where lying to anyone in a material matter is a good thing.
> 
> It's even in the Bible:  Thou shalt not bear false witness.  That's a mortal sin, son.


Relationships between men and women? Especially Western women who are not left leaning but indoctrinated Progressives!


----------



## postman

bripat9643 said:


> How would that be a crime?  What business is it of the cop why you're in the store?



Now you're getting it.  You don't have to tell the cop anything.  But the WRONG move is to LIE to the police or the FBI, or to any law enforcement, because lying to them is a crime.  A serious crime.

How dumb do you have to be to lie to the FBI, when you didn't do anything wrong.   Until then.

It's like taking the cops on a high speed chase, when all you had is a broken tail light.


----------



## postman

Dragonlady said:


> Why is it that everyone is lying except Donald Trump and the criminals working for them?????
> 
> Mueller is lying, the Democrats are lying, the FBI is lying, the Courts are lying, the Republican Senate Investigation into Russian election interference is lying, the press is lying.
> 
> Donald Trump and General Flynn are the only ones telling the truth.  Yeah.  Right.


It's what gets them through the night.  The only way to defend the mountain of lies that Trump and his associates told, is to pretend they're just "alternative facts", and the government is lying about what really happened.

They need to write that up in the DSM-6 manual under Trump induced derangement syndrome.


----------



## bripat9643

postman said:


> If he didn't break the law, he did so by lying to the FBI.


Entrapment.  Strzok is the one who broke the law.


----------



## bripat9643

Dragonlady said:


> You're defending lying, you moron.  Lying in most cases is not a crime, but if you lie to your bank manager, your loan application will be refused, even if your credit rating is good, and you have collateral.  As a bank manager, if I can't trust you to tell me the truth, I can't trust you to pay back this loan.
> 
> As an employer, if an employee lies to me, you're fired.
> 
> As a wife, when I caught my husband lying to me, I threw his ass out.
> 
> There isn't a single instance where lying to anyone in a material matter is a good thing.
> 
> It's even in the Bible:  Thou shalt not bear false witness.  That's a mortal sin, son.


The bottom line is that lying to Mike Pence was not a crime.


----------



## bripat9643

postman said:


> He plead guilty because they had a NSA intercept of him talking to the Russians.  But then Flynn lied to the Vice President that he didn't do what they had a recording of him doing.  That's why he got fired.
> 
> Then to top it off, Flynn lied to the FBI.  When he could have just kept his mouth shut.


He pled guilty because mueller was pointing a gun at his head, period.  Your rationalizations for that are beside the point.


----------



## bripat9643

postman said:


> Now you're getting it.  You don't have to tell the cop anything.  But the WRONG move is to LIE to the police or the FBI, or to any law enforcement, because lying to them is a crime.  A serious crime.
> 
> How dumb do you have to be to lie to the FBI, when you didn't do anything wrong.   Until then.
> 
> It's like taking the cops on a high speed chase, when all you had is a broken tail light.


No, you aren't getting it.  The cop has no business asking why they are in the store.  That's their business.  We aren't required to explain everything we do to a cop.   Only a NAZI would believe we are.


----------



## bripat9643

Dragonlady said:


> Why is it that everyone is lying except Donald Trump and the criminals working for them?????
> 
> Mueller is lying, the Democrats are lying, the FBI is lying, the Courts are lying, the Republican Senate Investigation into Russian election interference is lying, the press is lying.
> 
> Donald Trump and General Flynn are the only ones telling the truth.  Yeah.  Right.


You're delusional of you believe Mueller, Comey, Strzok and dozens of others weren't lying incessantly.   Yes, Mueller, the Democrats, the FBI is lying and the Courts are all lying.  That's called "the deep state."


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

bripat9643 said:


> Only according to a legal fiction, Not in reality.  Nothing done as a result of complusion can be considered valid.


The fantasies exist only in your mind, sorry. You can check. Step outside. Read something.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

bripat9643 said:


> Entrapment.  Strzok is the one who broke the law.


Also not entrapment. You don't think Flynn's lawyers thought of that before you did? They are career lawyers. You are an uneducated slob.

They tried that. Big fail. Join us in reality.


----------



## bripat9643

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> The fantasies exist only in your mind, sorry. You can check. Step outside. Read something.


No, the claim that a guilty plea is voluntary is a government imposed fiction.


----------



## bripat9643

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Also not entrapment. You don't think Flynn's lawyers thought of that before you did? They are career lawyers. You are an uneducated slob.
> 
> They tried that. Big fail. Join us in reality.


It most definitely was entrapment.  Strzok and company lied to Flynn when they interview him.  They told him he didn't need a lawyer.  The charges should have been thrown out on that basis alone.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

bripat9643 said:


> No, the claim that a guilty plea is voluntary is a government imposed fiction.


Nah, just desperate cultist fantasy and crybabying. A special little idiotic talking point you reserve for your cult high priests and nobody else.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

bripat9643 said:


> It most definitely was entrapment.  Strzok and company lied to Flynn when they interview him.  They told him he didn't need a lawyer.  The charges should have been thrown out on that basis alone.


Sorry, it wasn't. His lawyers tried that tack. They went down in flanes. But you go ahead and keep strokingyour little fantasy.


----------



## bripat9643

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Nah, just desperate cultist fantasy and crybabying. A special little idiotic talking point you reserve for your cult high priests and nobody else.


How can it be voluntary when the alternative to not doing it is going to prison?

"Voluntary" means there are no penalties imposed for not doing it.


----------



## bripat9643

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Sorry, it wasn't. His lawyers tried that tack. They went down in flanes. But you go ahead and keep strokingyour little fantasy.


Yes, we know the government used some weasel argument to deny it.

_https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/495405-michael-flynn-case-should-be-dismissed-to-preserve-justice_​_
Previously undisclosed documents in the case of former national security adviser Michael Flynn offer us a chilling blueprint on how top FBI officials not only sought to entrap the former White House aide but sought to do so on such blatantly unconstitutional and manufactured grounds._​​_These new documents further undermine the view of both the legitimacy and motivations of those investigations under former FBI director James Comey. For all of those who have long seen a concerted effort within the Justice Department to target the Trump administration, the fragments will read like a Dead Sea Scrolls version of a “deep state” conspiracy._​​_One note reflects discussions within the FBI shortly after the 2016 election on how to entrap Flynn in an interview concerning his conversations with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak. According to Fox News, the note was written by the former FBI head of counterintelligence, Bill Priestap, after a meeting with Comey and his deputy director, Andrew McCabe._​​_ADVERTISEMENT_​_The note states, “What is our goal? Truth and admission or to get him to lie, so we can prosecute him or get him fired?” This may have expressed an honest question over the motivation behind this targeting of Flynn, a decision for which Comey later publicly took credit when he had told an audience that he decided he could “get away” with sending “a couple guys over” to the White House to set up Flynn and make the case._​​_The new documents also explore how the Justice Department could get Flynn to admit breaking the Logan Act, a law that dates back to from 1799 which makes it a crime for a citizen to intervene in disputes between the United States and foreign governments. It has never been used to convict a citizen and is widely viewed as flagrantly unconstitutional._​​_In his role as the national security adviser to the president elect, there was nothing illegal in Flynn meeting with Kislyak. To use this abusive law here was utterly absurd, although other figures such as former acting Attorney General Sally Yates also raised it. Nevertheless, the FBI had latched onto this abusive law to target the retired Army lieutenant general._​​_Another newly released document is an email from former FBI lawyer Lisa Page to former FBI special agent Peter Strzok, who played the leadership role in targeting Flynn. In the email, Page suggests that Flynn could be set up by making a passing reference to a federal law that criminalizes lies to federal investigators. She suggested to Strzok that “it would be an easy way to just casually slip that in.” So this effort was not about protecting national security or learning critical intelligence. It was about bagging Flynn for the case in the legal version of a canned trophy hunt._​​_It is also disturbing that this evidence was only recently disclosed by the Justice Department. When Flynn was pressured to plead guilty to a single count of lying to investigators, he was unaware such evidence existed and that the federal investigators who had interviewed him told their superiors they did not think that Flynn intentionally lied when he denied discussing sanctions against Russia with Kislyak. Special counsel Robert Mueller and his team changed all that and decided to bring the dubious charge. They drained Flynn financially then threatened to charge his son._​


----------



## postman

bripat9643 said:


> No, the claim that a guilty plea is voluntary is a government imposed fiction.



Except for the fact that in order to plead guilty, you have to do so to the judge, under oath.

Pleading guilty when you're not guilty is perjury.


----------



## postman

bripat9643 said:


> It most definitely was entrapment.  Strzok and company lied to Flynn when they interview him.  They told him he didn't need a lawyer.  The charges should have been thrown out on that basis alone.


The USSC has ruled that law enforcement officers can legally lie to suspects, such as telling the suspect that his victim is alive, when he actually died, or that he died when he's still alive.  They can lie that his accomplice is singing like a canary, when they're silent as the Cheshire cat.

Law enforcement can lie to a suspect, but a suspect lying to law enforcement is a crime, often a serious felony.


----------



## postman

bripat9643 said:


> How can it be voluntary when the alternative to not doing it is going to prison?
> 
> "Voluntary" means there are no penalties imposed for not doing it.


Wrong (and stupid on top of that).  Like in the old days when a kid got in trouble with the law, had a choice of service a year in jail, or 4 years in the army.

The choice was voluntary either way.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

bripat9643 said:


> Pure horseshit.  The whole Russian collusion scam has been proven to be lie.  Every accusation Mueller made about Flynn has been proven to be a lie.
> 
> The fact that Flynn paid out every dime he had, and even had to mortgage his house to pay his legal bills, shows what a callous insufferable NAZI douchebag you are.


_‘BARR told Trump to his face, "you're going to lose, you're humiliating yourself: pettiness, acrimony, punching down, chaos--we're tired of this shit"’_

This is why if you foolishly nominate Trump for president in 2024 he’ll lose to President Biden.


----------



## para bellum

postman said:


> If you don't start defending yourself until AFTER you plead guilty, that's not defending yourself.


He never had the opportunity to defend himself. He pled guilty under coercion, and the case lingered for a year and a half while the Mueller investigation dragged on. Flynn appeared for sentencing in December 2018, but the judge threatened him with prison time if he did not accept a delay until the Mueller investigation was complete.

The DOJ was forced to release Brady evidence and emails that showed Flynn was ambushed and the plea deal was coerced, with an improper side agreement that promised to leave the son alone.

Then when Flynn fired his lawyers and hired Syndey Powell,  the DOJ changed their recommendation from probation to prison time.

That's when Flynn retracted his guilty plea, and the DOJ later retracted the charges. The crazy judge wouldn't drop the case, and Trump issued a pardon to close it once and for all.



			https://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Baker-Ignatius-prod-1-03564-Flynn-MtC.pdf


----------



## postman

bripat9643 said:


> _The note states, “What is our goal? Truth and admission or to get him to lie, so we can prosecute him or get him fired?” This may have expressed an honest question over the motivation behind this targeting of Flynn, a decision for which Comey later publicly took credit when he had told an audience that he decided he could “get away” with sending “a couple guys over” to the White House to set up Flynn and make the case._​



You can't induce anybody to LIE.  That's a voluntary act.  The only way to force somebody to LIE is under torture or threat of torture.

Similarly you can't induce anybody to answer questions.  You can invoke your 5th and 6th amendment rights, and remain completely silent, and immune from inducement to lie.


----------



## postman

bripat9643 said:


> They drained Flynn financially then threatened to charge his son



Posting this takes a special kind of stupid.  You can't threaten to prosecute an innocent person.  That would only set the government up for a false arrest case worth millions of dollars.

If Flynn plead guilty in order to protect his son from prosecution, that confirms that Flynn brought his son into his illegal schemes, and thus knew the criminal exposure his son faced.

It's no different than the Robert Hansen case, where his wife aided and abetted, and committed misprision of a felony.


----------



## postman

para bellum said:


> He never had the opportunity to defend himself. He pled guilty under coercion, and the case lingered for a year and a half while the Mueller investigation dragged on. Flynn appeared for sentencing in December 2018, but the judge threatened him with prison time if he did not accept a delay until the Mueller investigation was complete.


*That's a twisted way of saying the judge was offering him leniency for his cooperation.*


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

postman said:


> Because Flynn was dumb enough to lie to the FBI.
> 
> Just ask Martha Stewart why that isn't a good idea.



I didn't want to get into this topic, but if I remember correctly, the FBI agents told Flynn it was not an official investigation, they just were curious about a few things.


----------



## para bellum

postman said:


> *That's a twisted way of saying the judge was offering him leniency for his cooperation.*


He was already cooperating. He had been cooperating for a year. The cooperation was a condition of the plea deal he had entered into a year prior.

The judge didn't want to sentence him because the DOJ was recommending probation and the Mueller probe was still ongoing. Sullivan was hoping Mueller would give him some excuse to refuse the plea deal and throw the book at Flynn.

You were arguing that Flynn was abusing the legal system by dragging out the case, but that is not what happened. It was the government and the court that dragged it out, with the Mueller investigation and not sentencing Flynn in a timely manner.

It's not the government's behavior that really concerns me though- I expect gov't to abuse it's authority. It's that when the abuse is exposed, rank and file democrats still think it's acceptable. Pretextual investigations for political purposes, fabricating evidence, entrapment of material witnesses and coerced guilty pleas are just rationalized away. 

The rule of law means nothing if it's not impartially and fairly applied.


----------



## postman

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I didn't want to get into this topic, but if I remember correctly, the FBI agents told Flynn it was not an official investigation, they just were curious about a few things.


They were still FBI agents.  And lying to them is a felony.  You have to be a moron to lie to an FBI agent.  The feds don't screw around.  That's where the idiom "make a federal case out of it" came from.

The feds are as serious as a heart attack.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

postman said:


> They were still FBI agents.  And lying to them is a felony.  You have to be a moron to lie to an FBI agent.  The feds don't screw around.  That's where the idiom "make a federal case out of it" came from.
> 
> The feds are as serious as a heart attack.



You can't lie to them in an investigation, but what you tell them off the record is protected by our US Constitution.  You can tell them anything you want.


----------



## postman

para bellum said:


> He was already cooperating. He had been cooperating for a year. The cooperation was a condition of the plea deal he had entered into a year prior.
> 
> The judge didn't want to sentence him because the DOJ was recommending probation and the Mueller probe was still ongoing. Sullivan was hoping Mueller would give him some excuse to refuse the plea deal and throw the book at Flynn.
> 
> You were arguing that Flynn was abusing the legal system by dragging out the case, but that is not what happened. *It was the government and the court that dragged it out, with the Mueller investigation and not sentencing Flynn in a timely manner.*



You have it completely backwards.  The longer Flynn delays sentencing, the longer he stays out of jail (number one).  And the longer he cooperates, the more reason the DOJ has to prove the defendant deserves a lenient sentence.

Think of it like tipping your waiter, either at the beginning, or at the end.

When at the point where all he did was serve an appetizer, your tip won't be very big, since you have no idea how good the service will be throughout dinner.
But if you wait until the end, and you got great service, the tip would be much bigger, than if judged after just the first course.


----------



## BackAgain

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> 
> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> Sarah K. Burris
> July 21, 2021
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings.
> 
> "I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told Trump in April 2020 as the virus was killing more Americans, according to the reporters. "I feel you are actually losing touch with your own base."
> 
> Some of the Trump fans that Barr had talked to when traveling had confided in him that they were bothered by Trump's petty squabbles with his perceived enemies when they needed him. They, like most Americans, wanted steady leaders that could steer the country through the pandemic and bring back the economy.
> 
> "I have yet to meet anybody who supports you who hasn't said to me, 'We love the president, but would you please tell him to turn it back a bit?'" Barr said according to the new book. "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "
> 
> “There’s an invisible contract we all signed at birth,” it begins, introducing the idea (threadbare and moth-eaten these days) that citizens deserve to expect things from their government. Their own efforts and labor ought to form part of “a promise: Every hour we work means longer days of freedom and security." Ed Markey, 2020
> 
> Continued


Sure. Sure he did. 🙄


----------



## postman

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You can't lie to them in an investigation, but what you tell them off the record is protected by our US Constitution.  You can tell them anything you want.


Federal law enforcement is never "off the record" when it comes to lying to them.










						What if a confidential informant lies? - Answers
					

They are subject to perjury charges, filiing a flase police report or related charges. However, if they are lying on behalf of the law, what do you think the chances are that they will be prosecuted?




					www.answers.com
				



_Q:What if a confidential informant lies?
.

A:They are subject to perjury charges, filing a false police report or related charges._


----------



## postman

bripat9643 said:


> No, the claim that a guilty plea is voluntary is a government imposed fiction.


If that is so of a guilty plea, it has to also hold for a not-guilty plea.  Logic requires reciprocal application.

Such as if a person can be forced to tell a lie, he can be forced to tell the truth.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

postman said:


> Federal law enforcement is never "off the record" when it comes to lying to them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What if a confidential informant lies? - Answers
> 
> 
> They are subject to perjury charges, filiing a flase police report or related charges. However, if they are lying on behalf of the law, what do you think the chances are that they will be prosecuted?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.answers.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Q:What if a confidential informant lies?
> .
> 
> A:They are subject to perjury charges, filing a false police report or related charges._



So WTF does this site have to do with what we are discussing?   If I'm at a bar drinking a beer, and an FBI agent is sitting next to me and asks what I'm drinking, I can tell him cranberry juice and I would be held in contempt about lying to an FBI agent?  That's ridiculous.  So yes, there is on the record and off the record discussions.  On the record I'd have to take an oath to tell nothing but the truth.  Off the record I'm protected by the right to free speech.  I can say anything I want to any government agent.


----------



## Dragonlady

22lcidw said:


> Relationships between men and women? Especially Western women who are not left leaning but indoctrinated Progressives!



"Indoctrinated Progressives"?????  Boy you've got ways of dismissing everyone who doesn't look, think, or act like a racists asshole!!!

Women aren't "indoctrinated".  We learn that we need to grow a spine when we get passed over for promotions, and then are asked to train the people who got the job we applied for.

We learn that men want to screw around with impunity and bring home social diseases, and women are supposed to take the anti-biotics and not ask why.

We learn that in a divorce, men will lie, hide their assets, and seek to screw over their wives and take everything.

We learn that our bosses will steal all of our good ideas and pass them off as their own.  

We learned that men don't want women to make decisions about our own bodies, and that white men consider themselves to be smarter and better than even white women - all evidence to the contrary.

The Republican Party urged women to vote against the Equal Rights Amendment because Republicans would always take care of women's rights.  

We also learned that it's only rape, when non-whites do it.  White boys, well, she was drunk.  What did she expect?  Or she was "asking for it".   More than 99% of rapists never go to jail.  

This is how women are "indoctrinated".


----------



## Dragonlady

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So WTF does this site have to do with what we are discussing?   If I'm at a bar drinking a beer, and an FBI agent is sitting next to me and asks what I'm drinking, I can tell him cranberry juice and I would be held in contempt about lying to an FBI agent?  That's ridiculous.  So yes, there is on the record and off the record discussions.  On the record I'd have to take an oath to tell nothing but the truth.  Off the record I'm protected by the right to free speech.  I can say anything I want to any government agent.



If the FBI agent identifies himself to you and says he'd like to question you about a crime, and you lie to him, about anything, yes you can be charged.

You don't have to take an oath to tell the truth in order for you to be charged for lying.  You can be charged for lying to any government agent, including the DMV.

I cannot believe that conservatives are trying to claim they have the right to lie to the government, with impunity.  What happened to morals or honesty?


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Of course no Biden dick sucking prog is will allow anyone to forget it.  The prosecutor dropped the charges.  end of story.



LOL

You're such a fucking moron. 

Fucking moron, it matters not if the prosecution drops charges *after* a conviction. If you weren't such a fucking moron, you'd understand that's why prosecutors submitted a motion to the court to dismiss the case -- because it was still an active case despite prosecutors dropping the charges. That's why Trump came in and pardoned Flynn -- because the court was not approving that motion.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> I'm not going to argue with a psycho over this trivia.



LOLOL

Your concession, offered after I showed YOU were the one who said he had a choice, is graciously accepted.

And your refusal to answer the question, which is worse, going to prison or going broke answers for you. Obviously, going to prison is worse. Far worse. Which is why you don't want to answer that question since the answer absolutely decimates your idiotic claim that Flynn pleaded guilty to avoid bankruptcy.


----------



## bripat9643

postman said:


> Except for the fact that in order to plead guilty, you have to do so to the judge, under oath.
> 
> Pleading guilty when you're not guilty is perjury.


How does that alter the fact that the plea bargain is not voluntary?  So you commit a crime by pleading guilty with a gun pointed at your head?  You go to jail for pleading guilty and you go to jail for not pleading guilty.  
and that's your conception of "voluntary?"

You are fucking brain damaged.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Mueller prosecuted him with smears and lies, you colosal dumfuck.  What you object to is a person using his Constitutional right to defend himself.  You're a fucking NAZI.



He had every right to defend himself. Instead, he pleaded guilty. In two separate courts.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> LOL
> 
> You're such a fucking moron.
> 
> Fucking moron, it matters not if the prosecution drops charges *after* a conviction. If you weren't such a fucking moron, you'd understand that's why prosecutors submitted a motion to the court to dismiss the case -- because it was still an active case despite prosecutors dropping the charges. That's why Trump came in and pardoned Flynn -- because the court was not approving that motion.


Says you.  Rational people disagree.  Trump pardoned Flynn because he knew that the judge had it in for Flynn.   There is simply no reasoning with brain damaged Nazi Trump haters.


----------



## Faun

para bellum said:


> I can't believe the obsession with Flynn. He didn't do anything wrong, the FBI admitted that there were no inappropriate contacts with foreign parties. Mueller too.
> 
> It is completely normal for the people in an incoming administration to talk to their counterparts from other countries. It happens every time a new President is elected. The Obama administration was pushing a lie about Trump and Russia, the Russians knew it was a lie, the Trump people knew it was a lie, and the FBI knew it was a lie.
> 
> Flynn told Kislyak not to overreact to the sanctions Obama has imposed for Russian "interference". That is not an inappropriate thing for Flynn to say. The FBI knew exactly what Flynn said, they were tapping the call. They had no reason to even question him about it. Flynn was fired for not telling Pence the exchange with Kislyak took place, because a reporter asked Pence about the call and Pence said Flynn hadn't talked about the sanctions or something to that effect. That wasn't exactly true, and it embarrassed Pence that he said it.
> 
> The FBI put Flynn in a perjury trap, bankrupted him with legal expenses, and coerced a guilty plea by threatening to prosecute his son. Meanwhile, ther same FBI people were lying to the FISA court to secure their warrants to spy on Trump. It's completely outrageous.
> 
> The FBI is a joke, they have lost all credibility and it cannot be restored. They don't even record their interviews. They take notes and write up a 302 later, and somehow that's supposed to be an objective account?
> 
> All the resources of the combined intelligence services of the US, the investigatory power of the Congress, Attorney Generals and District Attorneys in multiple States, and all the prosecutions of the people in Trump's orbit- 6 years later, not one single criminal charge has been brought against Trump. He must be the most investigated person in US history.
> 
> Not content, the dems twice impeached him- which destroyed the impeachment clause by making impeachment a political weapon, instead of the Constitutional remedy for criminality or Treason by high officials that the Framers intended.



LOL

And then they forced him to plead guilty.

TWICE!


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> He had every right to defend himself. Instead, he pleaded guilty. In two separate courts.


Having to defend yourself is a bigger penalty than being convicted, you dumbfuck.  Defending yourself costs millions of dollars.  It's all just part of the DOJ scam.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> LOL
> 
> And then the forced him to plead guilty.
> 
> TWICE!


Yes they did, dumb fuck.  Not forcing him would mean dropping all the charges, and then him pleading guilty.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> That's nothing but your opinion.  It has no credibility.  Lying to Mike Pence was not a crime, you NAZI moron.



False, fucking moron. That's according to Mike Pence, who admitted he lied to the FBI.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> LOLOL
> 
> Your concession, offered after I showed YOU were the one who said he had a choice, is graciously accepted.
> 
> And your refusal to answer the question, which is worse, going to prison or going broke answers for you. Obviously, going to prison is worse. Far worse. Which is why you don't want to answer that question since the answer absolutely decimates your idiotic claim that Flynn pleaded guilty to avoid bankruptcy.


If I said "give me all your money or I'll blow your brains out," would you consider the choice you make "voluntary?"


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> False, fucking moron. That's according to Mike Pence, who admitted he lied to the FBI.


Mike Pence admitted he lied to the FBI?  Then why wasn't he indicted?


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> He didn't break the law.  That's a Mueller lie.  The bottom line is that he plead guilty only because of Mueller's extortion.  No admission of guilt that is the result of government compulsion is worth spit.



Of course he broke the law. He told the FBI he did not discuss the sanctions with Kislyak. That was a lie since he did discuss the sanctions with Kislyak.


----------



## bripat9643

postman said:


> If that is so of a guilty plea, it has to also hold for a not-guilty plea.  Logic requires reciprocal application.
> 
> Such as if a person can be forced to tell a lie, he can be forced to tell the truth.


You are too focking dumb to breath.  I didn't say he couldn't be forced to tell the truth.  I said a plea bargain is not voluntary.  So a plea bargain isn't necessarily the truth, which is what you NAZIs keep saying.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Mike Pence admitted he lied to the FBI?  Then why wasn't he indicted?



Dammit, my mistake, I meant Mike Flynn admitted he lied to the FBI.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> How does that alter the fact that the plea bargain is not voluntary?  So you commit a crime by pleading guilty with a gun pointed at your head?  You go to jail for pleading guilty and you go to jail for not pleading guilty.
> and that's your conception of "voluntary?"
> 
> You are fucking brain damaged.



You don't go to jail when you plead not guilty and the state fails to prove your guilt.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Of course he broke the law. He told the FBI he did not discuss the sanctions with Kislyak. That was a lie since he did discuss the sanctions with Kislyak.


Are you saying the Mike Pence lied or that Flynn lied?  One of your cronies in here said that Flynn lied to Pence, which isn't what he was charged with because lying to Pence isn't a crime.  That's what we're discussing.

Do you have that straight now, dumbass?


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Dammit, my mistake, I meant Mike Flynn admitted he lied to the FBI.


That's what his plea bargain said he had to say, which isn't worth a hill of beans because he accepted the plea bargain with a gun pointed at his head.  It wasn't voluntary.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Having to defend yourself is a bigger penalty than being convicted, you dumbfuck.  Defending yourself costs millions of dollars.  It's all just part of the DOJ scam.



Pleading guilty sends you to prison. Fighting in court only sends you to prison when the state proves you're guilty.

And as YOU already said -- he had a choice between going to prison or going broke. He chose prison because he knew the state could prove he was guilty had he pleaded not guilty.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> You don't go to jail when you plead not guilty and the state fails to prove your guilt.


You still have to pay lawyers millions of dollars, and Mueller was threatening to go after Flynn's son, so the claim that it's voluntary is horseshit.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> If I said "give me all your money or I'll blow your brains out," would you consider the choice you make "voluntary?"



Fucking moron, no one threatened to blow his brains out. 

Thanks for revealing how desperate you are.


----------



## para bellum

postman said:


> You have it completely backwards.  The longer Flynn delays sentencing, the longer he stays out of jail (number one).  And the longer he cooperates, the more reason the DOJ has to prove the defendant deserves a lenient sentence.
> 
> Think of it like tipping your waiter, either at the beginning, or at the end.
> 
> When at the point where all he did was serve an appetizer, your tip won't be very big, since you have no idea how good the service will be throughout dinner.
> But if you wait until the end, and you got great service, the tip would be much bigger, than if judged after just the first course.


Well this is all meaningless because it's not what happened. Flynn was prepared to be sentenced when he made the plea agreement. The guidelines were $500-$9500 fine and 0-6 months in jail. The DOJ is not required to "prove" he deserves leniency anyway, the plea agreement sets out the sentencing range.

The prosecution and Mueller were the ones that delayed the sentencing, which is not unusual in cases where the defendant is cooperating with an ongoing investigation. They do that to insure the cooperation continues. 

As long as the Mueller investigation was open, Mueller continued to ask the court to delay the sentencing. 

First in February 2018








						Mueller team seeks delay in Flynn sentencing
					

Special Counsel Robert Mueller's team has postponed the sentencing of former national security adviser Michael Flynn due to the “status” of the investigation, raising questions as to what the development means for the direction of the Russia probe.




					www.foxnews.com
				




Then again in May








						Mueller team asks for second delay in Michael Flynn sentencing hearing
					

Special Counsel Robert Mueller on Tuesday delayed the sentencing of former national security adviser Michael Flynn for a second time  “due to the status” of the investigation, raising questions as to what the development means for the direction of the Russian election-meddling probe.




					www.foxnews.com
				




And again in December








						Michael Flynn's sentencing delayed by Mueller team for third time
					

Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s team has once again delayed sentencing for former Trump official Michael Flynn, according to court documents released Friday.




					www.foxnews.com
				




After the Mueller probe finally ended, and documents started coming out from people like Judicial Watch did Flynn change his position. He switched attorneys and they started fighting back in mid-2019 based on the newly released documents. Then in 2020 the DOJ finally dismissed the charges.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Pleading guilty sends you to prison. Fighting in court only sends you to prison when the state proves you're guilty.


Does the court pay all your legal fees?  Nope.  That means it's not voluntary.  The penalty is millions of dollars in legal fees even if you are declared innocent.



Faun said:


> And as YOU already said -- he had a choice between going to prison or going broke. He chose prison because he knew the state could prove he was guilty had he pleaded not guilty.



So?  How does that prove a plea bargain is voluntary?


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Fucking moron, no one threatened to blow his brains out.
> 
> Thanks for revealing how desperate you are.


All laws are enforced with guns.

How fucking stupid are you?


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> That's what his plea bargain said he had to say, which isn't worth a hill of beans because he accepted the plea bargain with a gun pointed at his head.  It wasn't voluntary.



You're beyond demented, fucking moron. There was no gun pointed at his head. He pleaded guilty because he was guilty.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Does the court pay all your legal fees?  Nope.  That means it's not voluntary.  The penalty is millions of dollars in legal fees even if you are declared innocent.
> 
> 
> 
> So?  How does that prove a plea bargain is voluntary?



You showed he had the choice to go to prison or go broke. You're nuts to think he believed he was innocent but chose prison over going broke.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> All laws are enforced with guns.
> 
> How fucking stupid are you?



LOL

You're such a fucking moron. Having a gun pointed at his head is a figure of speech. He did not have a gun pointed at his head. According to you, EVERY person charged with a crime would plead guilty because they have a gun pointed at their head.


----------



## para bellum

Faun said:


> LOL
> 
> And then they forced him to plead guilty.
> 
> TWICE!


No, he pleaded guilty once, to one count of violating 18 USC 1001, making a false statement.






						Michael Flynn Plea Agreement Documents
					






					www.lawfareblog.com
				




It was a malicious prosecution, it was entrapment, and the DOJ withheld Brady evidence. Their ultimate dismissal of the charge is their acknowledgement of that.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> You're beyond demented, fucking moron. There was no gun pointed at his head. He pleaded guilty because he was guilty.


Of course there was a gun pointed at his head.  All laws are ultimately enforced with guns.  If you don't obey the law, then eventually men with guns will come and shoot you.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> You showed he had the choice to go to prison or go broke. You're nuts to think he believed he was innocent but chose prison over going broke.


You don't have the choice of walking away without any kind of penalty.  That's what the word "voluntary" means.  "Hand over your money or I'll shoot you" is not voluntary


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> LOL
> 
> You're such a fucking moron. Having a gun pointed at his head is a figure of speech. He did not have a gun pointed at his head. According to you, EVERY person charged with a crime would plead guilty because they have a gun pointed at their head.


Right, so if they have the gun in their pocket, that means it's voluntary.


Why do all prog NAZIs believe following laws is voluntary?  You don't know the meaning of the word.


----------



## Faun

para bellum said:


> No, he pleaded guilty once, to one count of violating 18 USC 1001, making a false statement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Michael Flynn Plea Agreement Documents
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.lawfareblog.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was a malicious prosecution, it was entrapment, and the DOJ withheld Brady evidence. Their ultimate dismissal of the charge is their acknowledgement of that.



He pleaded guilty in two separate courts when his case was handed to a second judge and that second judge offered him the opportunity to submit a plea to his court.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Of course there was a gun pointed at his head.  All laws are ultimately enforced with guns.  If you don't obey the law, then eventually men with guns will come and shoot you.



You're deranged, fucking moron. The vast majority of lawbreakers are never shot.

There is something severely wrong with your malfunctioning brain.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> You don't have the choice of walking away without any kind of penalty.  That's what the word "voluntary" means.  "Hand over your money or I'll shoot you" is not voluntary



You're still deranged to think people choose to go to prison even when they know they are innocent.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Right, so if they have the gun in their pocket, that means it's voluntary.
> 
> 
> Why do all prog NAZIs believe following laws is voluntary?  You don't know the meaning of the word.



You're a raving lunatic to think following the law is not voluntary.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> You're deranged, fucking moron. The vast majority of lawbreakers are never shot.
> 
> There is something severely wrong with your malfunctioning brain.


Yes, they comply before they are shot.  Anyone who thinks the police do not use guns to enforce the law is a brain dead moron.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> You're a raving lunatic to think following the law is not voluntary.


ROFL!   Only raving lunatics believe following the law is voluntary.  If it's "voluntary," what happens if I don't file my income taxes?  "Voluntary" means you can ignore it with no penalties of any kind.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> You're still deranged to think people choose to go to prison even when they know they are innocent.


That's exactly what a plea bargain is, moron.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> You're deranged, fucking moron. The vast majority of lawbreakers are never shot.
> 
> There is something severely wrong with your malfunctioning brain.


ROFL, so if it wasn't voluntary, the police would never arrest anyone?  They would just shoot people breaking the law?

You are a major fucking moron.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Yes, they comply before they are shot.  Anyone who thinks the police do not use guns to enforce the law is a brain dead moron.



They use guns to stop threats, ya fucking moron.  Anything beyond that is criminal. You are truly fucked in the head.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> ROFL!   Only raving lunatics believe following the law is voluntary.  If it's "voluntary," what happens if I don't file my income taxes?  "Voluntary" means you can ignore it with no penalties of any kind.





Wrong, fucking moron. "Voluntary" merely means having the ability to choose...

*voluntary*

_proceeding from the will or from one's own choice or consent_​
People can choose whether or not to voluntarily follow the law.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> That's exactly what a plea bargain is, moron.



No it's not. Are you ever not a fucking moron? Ever???

People who are guilty plead guilty because they know that trying to fight in court over charge(s) they know they committed will very likely lead to a conviction anyway and a harsher sentence. And while there are a few who believe their innocent who plead guilty, they do so because they believe prosecutors might be able to prove they're guilty in a court of law. Bug no person in their right mind would choose to go to prison to avoid going broke. That's one of thd dumbest things you've ever said here. And given some of the moronic shit you post, that's quite impressive.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> ROFL, so if it wasn't voluntary, the police would never arrest anyone?  They would just shoot people breaking the law?
> 
> You are a major fucking moron.



No fucking moron, that's your claim. I'm the one saying police don't [legally] shoot people for breaking the law. They do often shoot people who are a threat to others' safety.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> They use guns to stop threats, ya fucking moron.  Anything beyond that is criminal. You are truly fucked in the head.


ROFL!   When you arrest someone, what do they do, say "pretty please?"  What do they do if you point a gun on them when they come to arrest you?  

Your ignoring the fundamental facts and focusing on appearances because you don't want to admit how government operates.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> No fucking moron, that's your claim. I'm the one saying police don't [legally] shoot people for breaking the law. They do often shoot people who are a threat to others' safety.


Sure they do.  If you refuse to comply with their demands and defend yourself, then they will shoot you.

You're pretending cops never use those things in their holsters.


----------



## para bellum

Faun said:


> He pleaded guilty in two separate courts when his case was handed to a second judge and that second judge offered him the opportunity to submit a plea to his court.


No, that's not true. There has only ever been one case- United States v. Flynn. It was brought in the US Federal Court for the District of Columbia.

The first judge was Rudy Contreras. Flynn appeared before Judge Contreras and pled guilty on December 1 to one count as reflected in the charging document I linked. The guilty plea is the plea agreement, and the statement of charges describes the offense.

Judge Contreras also sits on the FISA court, and he was removed from the Flynn case in the very beginning due to the FISA conflict. Judge Sullivan was appointed. Sullivan was the only judge that ever heard any arguments on any of the motions in the Flynn case.

He was the one that dragged out the case forever, and refused to dismiss it even after the DOJ dropped the prosecution and the DC Circuit Courty of Appeals ordered him to dismiss it. He only finally let go of it when Trump issued the pardon to put an end to Flynn's ordeal.

There are no other plea deals, no other courts, and no other indictments were ever brought against Flynn.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> No it's not. Are you ever not a fucking moron? Ever???
> 
> People who are guilty plead guilty because they know that trying to fight in court over charge(s) they know they committed will very likely lead to a conviction anyway and a harsher sentence. And while there are a few who believe their innocent who plead guilty, they do so because they believe prosecutors might be able to prove they're guilty in a court of law. Bug no person in their right mind would choose to go to prison to avoid going broke. That's one of thd dumbest things you've ever said here. And given some of the moronic shit you post, that's quite impressive.


In other words, the are extorted.  A voluntary plea would mean nothing would happen to you if you declined.  That's what voluntary means.   

Every mugger gives his victim a choice, hand over your money or I will shoot you.  According to you, that's voluntary.


----------



## para bellum

Faun said:


> They use guns to stop threats, ya fucking moron.  Anything beyond that is criminal. You are truly fucked in the head.


Threats like Roger Stone? 

Why did they need the CNN cameras too?


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Wrong, fucking moron. "Voluntary" merely means having the ability to choose...
> 
> *voluntary*​​_proceeding from the will or from one's own choice or consent_​
> People can choose whether or not to voluntarily follow the law.


ROFL!   You are such a fucking moron.  If a rapist tells his victim "take off your clothes or I will cut your throat," is that voluntary?  according to you, it is.  After all, the victim was given a choice.

Can you explain what non voluntary would be?


----------



## colfax_m

para bellum said:


> He was the one that dragged out the case forever, and refused to dismiss it even after the DOJ dropped the prosecution and the DC Circuit Courty of Appeals ordered him to dismiss it.


Sullivan wasn’t the only one dragging the case out. Flynn decided to enlist the now disgraced Sydney Powell who attempted to reverse his guilty plea like two years after he made it and flooded the court with nonsense requests for discovery that were pretty bonkers.

Powell dragged it out long enough for Barr to appoint some cronies to “review” the case and drop charges even though they were just waiting on sentencing. Sullivan felt the DoJ was playing politics and wanted to have some opinions on it. The appeals court ordered Sullivan to drop it but there was an en banc review that called out the precious ruling as being pretty nuts, and it was. The en banc review from the appeals court allowed Sullivan to continue to weigh whether he was required to dismiss the case or not.


----------



## bripat9643

colfax_m said:


> Sullivan wasn’t the only one dragging the case out. Flynn decided to enlist the now disgraced Sydney Powell who attempted to reverse his guilty plea like two years after he made it and flooded the court with nonsense requests for discovery that were pretty bonkers.
> 
> Powell dragged it out long enough for Barr to appoint some cronies to “review” the case and drop charges even though they were just waiting on sentencing. Sullivan felt the DoJ was playing politics and wanted to have some opinions on it. The appeals court ordered Sullivan to drop it but there was an en banc review that called out the precious ruling as being pretty nuts, and it was. The en banc review from the appeals court allowed Sullivan to continue to weigh whether he was required to dismiss the case or not.


It doesn't matter who dragged the case out, it was extortion, pure and simple.  Flynn should never been in court.


----------



## colfax_m

bripat9643 said:


> It doesn't matter who dragged the case out, it was extortion, pure and simple.  Flynn should never been in court.


It does matter who dragged it out if you’re attempting to claim that you only pled guilty to avoid dragging it out.

Flynn lied to the FBI. Everyone knows it.


----------



## bripat9643

colfax_m said:


> It does matter who dragged it out if you’re attempting to claim that you only pled guilty to avoid dragging it out.
> 
> Flynn lied to the FBI. Everyone knows it.


I never made such a claim, moron.

The FBI had no business conducting a criminal investigation of Flynn, especially when they didn't tell him they were.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> ROFL!   When you arrest someone, what do they do, say "pretty please?"  What do they do if you point a gun on them when they come to arrest you?
> 
> Your ignoring the fundamental facts and focusing on appearances because you don't want to admit how government operates.



LOL 

Fucking moron, if you point a gun at them, you're the threat I'm describing and they will shoot you.

Thanks for proving me right.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Sure they do.  If you refuse to comply with their demands and defend yourself, then they will shoot you.
> 
> You're pretending cops never use those things in their holsters.



I'm pretending no such thing. You'd know that if you weren't such a fucking moron. If you're a threat to their safety of others, they will draw their firearms and possibly use them. They cannot legally shoot someone who's not threatening anyone's safety.


----------



## para bellum

colfax_m said:


> It does matter who dragged it out if you’re attempting to claim that you only pled guilty to avoid dragging it out.


It matters when the government is dragging it out to compel something they are not entitled to, and withholding exculpatory evidence for 2+ years (that showed they had no derogatory information on Flynn).



colfax_m said:


> Flynn lied to the FBI. Everyone knows it.


The "lie" was saying he didn't remember something, in a meeting was a setup as shown in the FBI's own internal messages and emails.

They had investigated Flynn. They found no derogatory information of any kind. They closed the investigation. They knew the phone calls with Kislyak were nothing, and said so among themselves.

Then McCabe and Stzrok and Comey came up with the scheme to set the perjury trap. They knew the Russia collusion was a Clinton campaign smear, they had nothing derogatory on Trump. 

They needed to "flip" someone on the inside to produce a crime to justify their outrageous investigation- FBI analysts and attorneys were running out and buying liability insurance!

So corrupt, and Durham has done nothing.  




			https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e80e0d236405d1c7b8eaec9/t/5eab58142b3dbd4d615f8c2e/1588287516631/Doc.-162-Flynn-Motion-to-Dismiss-for-Egregious-Government-Misconduct-and-in-the-Interest-of-Justice.pdf
		




			https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e80e0d236405d1c7b8eaec9/t/5eab59177f14be433de11ef3/1588287768257/181-wExs-1-2.pdf
		




			https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e80e0d236405d1c7b8eaec9/t/5f0bb36ce08c710bad0330bc/1594602352202/July+10%2C+2020+-+SUPPLEMENT+by+Michael+T.+Flynn+re+%5B198%5D+Motion+to+Dismiss+Case.pdf
		




			https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e80e0d236405d1c7b8eaec9/t/5eab8abb0d051f731cfe87e2/1588300482261/Doc.+189+Flynn+SECOND+SUPPLEMENT+TO+MOTION+TO+DISMISS+FOR+EGREGIOUS+GOVERNMENT+MISCONDUCT.pdf
		




			https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592.248.0_2.pdf
		




			https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e80e0d236405d1c7b8eaec9/t/5eab5945318c6f3c3787f75f/1588287820116/ECF-No.-188.pdf
		




			https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e80e0d236405d1c7b8eaec9/t/5f7e2f1e53e3f930b1a204e3/1602105119308/Fifth+Supplement+in+Support+of+Agreed+Dismissal+%28264%29.pdf


----------



## Faun

para bellum said:


> No, that's not true. There has only ever been one case- United States v. Flynn. It was brought in the US Federal Court for the District of Columbia.
> 
> The first judge was Rudy Contreras. Flynn appeared before Judge Contreras and pled guilty on December 1 to one count as reflected in the charging document I linked. The guilty plea is the plea agreement, and the statement of charges describes the offense.
> 
> Judge Contreras also sits on the FISA court, and he was removed from the Flynn case in the very beginning due to the FISA conflict. Judge Sullivan was appointed. Sullivan was the only judge that ever heard any arguments on any of the motions in the Flynn case.
> 
> He was the one that dragged out the case forever, and refused to dismiss it even after the DOJ dropped the prosecution and the DC Circuit Courty of Appeals ordered him to dismiss it. He only finally let go of it when Trump issued the pardon to put an end to Flynn's ordeal.
> 
> There are no other plea deals, no other courts, and no other indictments were ever brought against Flynn.



I never said there was more than one case. I said he pleaded guilty twice. First in Contreras' court; then in Sullivan's court, Sullivan ordered the prosecution to provide any exculpatory evidence, opening the door to Flynn motioning to withdraw his guilty plea. Instead, Flynn committed to his guilty plea to Sullivan.









						How A Michael Flynn Plea Reversal Could Uncover Federal Corruption
					

Did Robert Mueller’s office withhold other evidence in Michael Flynn’s prosecution, either from the FISA court or from Flynn’s attorneys?




					thefederalist.com


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> LOL
> 
> Fucking moron, if you point a gun at them, you're the threat I'm describing and they will shoot you.
> 
> Thanks for proving me right.


Nope.  I wouldn't be pulling a gun on them if they weren't trying to arrest me.  I was no threat until they attacked me.  The police instigated the event.  They brought it on themselves, not the other way around, dumbass.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> I'm pretending no such thing. You'd know that if you weren't such a fucking moron. If you're a threat to their safety of others, they will draw their firearms and possibly use them. They cannot legally shoot someone who's not threatening anyone's safety.


Yes you are.

I'm not a thrreat to anyone until the police come to arrest me.  Then I'm a threat only to people who intend to use violence against me.

Only a congenital dumbass is capable of believing that following laws is voluntary.

Since that is "voluntary," can you define an action that would be involuntary?  You still haven't done that.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> LOL
> 
> Fucking moron, if you point a gun at them, you're the threat I'm describing and they will shoot you.
> 
> Thanks for proving me right.


The police are the ones intending to use violence against me if I don't comply with their demands.  If they were private citizens, you would be within your rights to shoot them.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> In other words, the are extorted.  A voluntary plea would mean nothing would happen to you if you declined.  That's what voluntary means.
> 
> Every mugger gives his victim a choice, hand over your money or I will shoot you.  According to you, that's voluntary.



LOL

Again, fucking moron, you're basing that on your own mistaken definition of the word, "voluntary."


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> I'm pretending no such thing. You'd know that if you weren't such a fucking moron. If you're a threat to their safety of others, they will draw their firearms and possibly use them. They cannot legally shoot someone who's not threatening anyone's safety.


They are the ones threatening someone's safety.  They use violence against you, and then they get to shoot you if you don't comply, and you claim laws are not enforced with guns?

You're a fucking NAZI moron.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> LOL
> 
> Again, fucking moron, you're basing that on your own mistaken definition of the word, "voluntary."



Your definition of "voluntary" is the definition big brother uses.

Please give us an example of "involuntary" so we can all laugh at it.


----------



## Faun

para bellum said:


> Threats like Roger Stone?
> 
> Why did they need the CNN cameras too?



You're upset because CNN was smart enough to stake out Stone's property after it was announced Stone was facing probable arrest?


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> You're upset because CNN was smart enough to stake out Stone's property after it was announced Stone was facing probable arrest?


They weren't that smart, dumbass.  Mueller tipped them off.  That's probably illegal.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> ROFL!   You are such a fucking moron.  If a rapist tells his victim "take off your clothes or I will cut your throat," is that voluntary?  according to you, it is.  After all, the victim was given a choice.
> 
> Can you explain what non voluntary would be?



Again, fucking moron, no one was threatening to rape Flynn. He was facing a criminal charge and had the choice to fight it or surrender to it. He chose the latter.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> It doesn't matter who dragged the case out, it was extortion, pure and simple.  Flynn should never been in court.



Why not? He lied to the FBI.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Again, fucking moron, no one was threatening to rape Flynn. He was facing a criminal charge and had the choice to fight it or surrender to it. He chose the latter.


They were threatening him with the use of force, asshole.  That choice isn't what "voluntary" means.

You are still running away from explaining what "involuntary" means.  We both know why.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Why not? He lied to the FBI.


The FBI was pulling a scam. If anyone should have been arrested, it's them.


----------



## Faun

para bellum said:


> It matters when the government is dragging it out to compel something they are not entitled to, and withholding exculpatory evidence for 2+ years (that showed they had no derogatory information on Flynn).
> 
> 
> The "lie" was saying he didn't remember something, in a meeting was a setup as shown in the FBI's own internal messages and emails.
> 
> They had investigated Flynn. They found no derogatory information of any kind. They closed the investigation. They knew the phone calls with Kislyak were nothing, and said so among themselves.
> 
> Then McCabe and Stzrok and Comey came up with the scheme to set the perjury trap. They knew the Russia collusion was a Clinton campaign smear, they had nothing derogatory on Trump.
> 
> They needed to "flip" someone on the inside to produce a crime to justify their outrageous investigation- FBI analysts and attorneys were running out and buying liability insurance!
> 
> So corrupt, and Durham has done nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e80e0d236405d1c7b8eaec9/t/5eab58142b3dbd4d615f8c2e/1588287516631/Doc.-162-Flynn-Motion-to-Dismiss-for-Egregious-Government-Misconduct-and-in-the-Interest-of-Justice.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e80e0d236405d1c7b8eaec9/t/5eab59177f14be433de11ef3/1588287768257/181-wExs-1-2.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e80e0d236405d1c7b8eaec9/t/5f0bb36ce08c710bad0330bc/1594602352202/July+10%2C+2020+-+SUPPLEMENT+by+Michael+T.+Flynn+re+%5B198%5D+Motion+to+Dismiss+Case.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e80e0d236405d1c7b8eaec9/t/5eab8abb0d051f731cfe87e2/1588300482261/Doc.+189+Flynn+SECOND+SUPPLEMENT+TO+MOTION+TO+DISMISS+FOR+EGREGIOUS+GOVERNMENT+MISCONDUCT.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592.248.0_2.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e80e0d236405d1c7b8eaec9/t/5eab5945318c6f3c3787f75f/1588287820116/ECF-No.-188.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e80e0d236405d1c7b8eaec9/t/5f7e2f1e53e3f930b1a204e3/1602105119308/Fifth+Supplement+in+Support+of+Agreed+Dismissal+%28264%29.pdf



Thd lie was denying discussing sanctions with Kislyak.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Again, fucking moron, no one was threatening to rape Flynn. He was facing a criminal charge and had the choice to fight it or surrender to it. He chose the latter.


According to your own definition, getting raped is "voluntary" if the perp gives you a choice of that or getting your throat slit.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> They are the ones threatening someone's safety.  They use violence against you, and then they get to shoot you if you don't comply, and you claim laws are not enforced with guns?
> 
> You're a fucking NAZI moron.


Arresting you for committing a crime is not violence,  you fucking moron.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Dragonlady said:


> If the FBI agent identifies himself to you and says he'd like to question you about a crime, and you lie to him, about anything, yes you can be charged.
> 
> You don't have to take an oath to tell the truth in order for you to be charged for lying.  You can be charged for lying to any government agent, including the DMV.
> 
> I cannot believe that conservatives are trying to claim they have the right to lie to the government, with impunity.  What happened to morals or honesty?



Bullshit.  Why do you think they lied to the General about it not being a conversation of official capacity.  That's what they told him after he asked whether he should get a lawyer or not.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Your definition of "voluntary" is the definition big brother uses.
> 
> Please give us an example of "involuntary" so we can all laugh at it.



*involuntary*

_done contrary to or without choice

not subject to control of the will_


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> They weren't that smart, dumbass.  Mueller tipped them off.  That's probably illegal.



It might be illegal if you had even a shred of evidence,  but since you're just making that up, you just look like the fucking moron you are.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> They were threatening him with the use of force, asshole.  That choice isn't what "voluntary" means.
> 
> You are still running away from explaining what "involuntary" means.  We both know why.



There was no use of force, fucking moron. He committed a crime for which he was facing legal consequences.  That's on him for breaking the law. That too was voluntary.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> The FBI was pulling a scam. If anyone should have been arrested, it's them.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> According to your own definition, getting raped is "voluntary" if the perp gives you a choice of that or getting your throat slit.



No, fucking moron, that would not be voluntary since getting your throat slit is not a viable option.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

postman said:


> Except for the fact that in order to plead guilty, you have to do so to the judge, under oath.
> 
> Pleading guilty when you're not guilty is perjury.


And Flynn perjured himself when he then stated under oath he was.not guilty of his crimes. The judge mentioned a possible new perjury charge. Then the foreign agent felon was pardoned by his orange God. At which time Flynn admitted guilt officially for the third time by accepting the pardon.


----------



## Dragonlady

bripat9643 said:


> How does that alter the fact that the plea bargain is not voluntary?  So you commit a crime by pleading guilty with a gun pointed at your head?  You go to jail for pleading guilty and you go to jail for not pleading guilty.
> and that's your conception of "voluntary?"
> 
> You are fucking brain damaged.



Does it hurt tying yourself into a pretzel to try to cling to the theory that Flynn isn't a treasonous criminal.  The guy wanted Trump to declare martial law and seize the voting machines.  Not to mention he was also a paid agent for Turkey, while he was the NSA.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Arresting you for committing a crime is not violence,  you fucking moron.


Of course it is, asshole.  It may be justified violence, but it's still the use of force.

Only  a NAZI asshole would deny that arresting someone is suing force against him.


----------



## bripat9643

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> And Flynn perjured himself when he then stated under oath he was.not guilty of his crimes.



Pleading not guilty is perjury?  You really a king sized dumbass.



Fort Fun Indiana said:


> The judge mentioned a possible new perjury charge. Then the foreign agent felon was pardoned by his orange God. At which time Flynn admitted guilt officially for the third time by accepting the pardon.



That's prog fantasy, not reality.


----------



## bripat9643

Dragonlady said:


> Does it hurt tying yourself into a pretzel to try to cling to the theory that Flynn isn't a treasonous criminal.


Trying to claim Flynn is guilty or treason requires you to twist yourself into knots.  John Podesta did exactly the same thing.  So where are his indictments?  The bottom line is that you lying progs are the world's biggest hypocrites



Dragonlady said:


> The guy wanted Trump to declare martial law and seize the voting machines.  Not to mention he was also a paid agent for Turkey, while he was the NSA.



I don't recall Flynn doing any of that.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> It might be illegal if you had even a shred of evidence,  but since you're just making that up, you just look like the fucking moron you are.


All the facts are known, dumbass.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> *involuntary*
> 
> _done contrary to or without choice
> 
> not subject to control of the will_


So getting raped is voluntary, according to you, so long as the perp gives you the choice of  getting your throat slit.  The definition assumes the choice is a free choice.  Not one limited by the government.

What is the source for this trash?

Here's the Google definition:

1.  done without will or conscious control."she gave an involuntary shudder"

2. done against someone's will; compulsory."a policy of involuntary repatriation"

According to the second definition, Flynn's "choice" was not voluntary.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> It might be illegal if you had even a shred of evidence,  but since you're just making that up, you just look like the fucking moron you are.


You're the one who insists that if a rapist offers you the choice of getting your throat slit if you don't comply with his demands, then it's "voluntary."


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> There was no use of force, fucking moron. He committed a crime for which he was facing legal consequences.  That's on him for breaking the law. That too was voluntary.


There was no use of force!






"Legal consequences" means the government use of force against him.  That's what law is, you fucking moron.

If I have a gun in my pocket so no one can see it, and I tell you to give me all your money or I'll shoot you, have I used force against you?


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> No, fucking moron, that would not be voluntary since getting your throat slit is not a viable option.


Oh, so now you've changed your answer to "viable option."  So how is forcing you to spend every dime you have on legal fees "viable" but not having your throat slit?  They would appear equally "viable" to any rational person.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> All the facts are known, dumbass.



Great, prove it, fucking moron....


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> So getting raped is voluntary, according to you, so long as the perp gives you the choice of  getting your throat slit.  The definition assumes the choice is a free choice.  Not one limited by the government.
> 
> What is the source for this trash?
> 
> Here's the Google definition:
> 
> 1.  done without will or conscious control."she gave an involuntary shudder"
> 
> 2. done against someone's will; compulsory."a policy of involuntary repatriation"
> 
> According to the second definition, Flynn's "choice" was not voluntary.


No, you fucking moron, "done without choice" is *"involuntary,"* not voluntary. And Flynn *chose* to plead guilty. The very definition of *voluntary*

Are you ever not a fucking moron?

Ever??

Now you're comparing choosing to breaking the law ... with rape.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> You're the one who insists that if a rapist offers you the choice of getting your throat slit if you don't comply with his demands, then it's "voluntary."



Sadly, now you're lying about what I said. Did I really say that's voluntary?? Let's pull up the tape and see...



Faun said:


> _No, fucking moron, *that would not be voluntary* since getting your throat slit is not a viable option._



_[emphasis added to highlight your lie]_


----------



## eddiew37

bripat9643 said:


> No one believes anything Dims claim about why they did something.  That's all just so much blather.  I didn't even bother to read the rest of your swill.
> 
> I don't give anyone credit but the Ukrainians.  However, the bottom line is that the Dims didn't help them.  The Dims tried to obstruct giving aid to them.  There is simply no denying that.


They wouldn't lie for your pos trump   so your ah withheld   aid


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> No, you fucking moron, "done without choice" is *"involuntary,"* not voluntary. And Flynn *chose* to plead guilty. The very definition of *voluntary*
> 
> Are you ever not a fucking moron?
> 
> Ever??
> 
> Now you're comparing choosing to breaking the law ... with rape.


But getting your throat slit is a choice, so it's voluntary., according to you  Flynn "chose" the same why the victim of a rapist "chooses" to get her throat slit.  You really don't get the meaning of the term "free choice," do you, dumbass?  Servile bootlickers just don't understand concepts like "free choice."


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Oh, so now you've changed your answer to "viable option."  So how is forcing you to spend every dime you have on legal fees "viable" but not having your throat slit?  They would appear equally "viable" to any rational person.



Because, fuckinging moron, going to prison is the worse option. Going to prison is the comparison with getting your throat slit in your twisted anology.

That's why you refused to answer my question I asked repeatedly, which is worse, going to prison or going broke. You wouldn't answer it because you realized the answer destroys your argument.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Sadly, now you're lying about what I said. Did I really say that's voluntary?? Let's pull up the tape and see...
> 
> ​
> _[emphasis added to highlight your lie]_


Yes, we both agree that you're changing your definition of "choice."  Now it has to be "viable."  So what's "viable" about spending every last dime you have on lawyers?


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> But getting your throat slit is a choice, so it's voluntary., according to you  Flynn "chose" the same why the victim of a rapist "chooses" to get her throat slit.  You really don't get the meaning of the term "free choice," do you, dumbass?  Servile bootlickers just don't understand concepts like "free choice."



It's sad that you can't argue without lying about what I said. Again, getting your throat slit is not a choice.


----------



## BWK

bripat9643 said:


> All the facts are known, dumbass.


You've presented no facts. You are a constant circle jerk who says nothing. You need to be instituted. I'm not kidding.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Yes, we both agree that you're changing your definition of "choice."  Now it has to be "viable."  So what's "viable" about spending every last dime you have on lawyers?



No, fucking moron, I changed nothing. You're merely arguing absurdum.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Because, fuckinging moron, going to prison is the worse option. Going to prison is the comparison with getting your throat slit in your twisted anology.
> 
> That's why you refused to answer my question I asked repeatedly, which is worse, going to prison or going broke. You wouldn't answer it because you realized the answer destroys your argument.



Both are bad options.  Where did you say bad options don't count?  If they don't count, that includes spending every last dime you have on lawyers.

I didn't answer your question because it doesn't matter.  It's a side show.  Being given a choice between two bad options is not voluntary.   It's compulsion.


----------



## Faun

BWK said:


> You've presented no facts. You are a constant circle jerk who says nothing. You need to be instituted. I'm not kidding.
> 
> ^^^ exactly


----------



## bripat9643

BWK said:


> You've presented no facts. You are a constant circle jerk who says nothing. You need to be instituted. I'm not kidding.


Yes, I didn't present the known facts.  Everyone already knows them.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> No, fucking moron, I changed nothing. You're merely arguing absurdum.


Of course you changed something.  First you said it was "voluntary" if he was given a choice.  Then you changed that to it has to be a "viable option."  If that's the case, then how does spending every last dime you have on lawyers constitute a "viable option?"


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Both are bad options.  Where did you say bad options don't count?  If they don't count, that includes spending every last dime you have on lawyers.
> 
> I didn't answer your question because it doesn't matter.  It's a side show.  Being given a choice between two bad options is not voluntary.   It's compulsion.



I never said otherwise. And yes, you refused to answer because the answer destroys your argument. 

Watch this... 

Which is worse, going to prison or going broke?

Answer: going to prison is worse.

See how easy that is? Yet you couldn't bring yourself to answer.


----------



## BWK

bripat9643 said:


> It doesn't matter who dragged the case out, it was extortion, pure and simple.  Flynn should never been in court.


Flynn lied to the FBI about his involvement with Russia contacts. That's more than worthy of a court appearance.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> I never said otherwise. And yes, you refused to answer because the answer destroys your argument.
> 
> Watch this...
> 
> Which is worse, going to prison or going broke?
> 
> Answer: going to prison is worse.
> 
> See how easy that is? Yet you couldn't bring yourself to answer.


It doesn't matter, dumb fuck. Both are bad options.  A choice between two bad options imposed on you is not a free choice.  It's tyranny.


----------



## bripat9643

BWK said:


> Flynn lied to the FBI about his involvement with Russia contacts. That's more than worthy of a court appearance.


He should never have been interrogated by a couple of deep state apparatchiks.  He wasn't suspected of any crime.


----------



## BWK

bripat9643 said:


> Yes, I didn't present the known facts.  Everyone already knows them.


You said Flynn should have never gone to court. That's not a fact, that's an idiotic opinion coming from a total ignoramus.


----------



## para bellum

Faun said:


> I never said there was more than one case. I said he pleaded guilty twice. First in Contreras' court; then in Sullivan's court, Sullivan ordered the prosecution to provide any exculpatory evidence, opening the door to Flynn motioning to withdraw his guilty plea. Instead, Flynn committed to his guilty plea to Sullivan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How A Michael Flynn Plea Reversal Could Uncover Federal Corruption
> 
> 
> Did Robert Mueller’s office withhold other evidence in Michael Flynn’s prosecution, either from the FISA court or from Flynn’s attorneys?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thefederalist.com


Well now you are just making shit up as you go. First you said it was in 2 separate courts.



			
				faun said:
			
		

> He pleaded guilty in *two separate courts* when his case was handed to a second judge and that second judge offered him the opportunity to submit a plea to his court.


There was only ever one court- the US Federal District Court for D.C. Now you are claiming he entered more than one plea. If you think he did that, then post the second one.

He pled guilty in his first appearance, he doesn't have to do it again just because the judge changes- it's still the same case, with the same court record.

Sullivan's discovery order was appropriate because he was holding the case open. Judges don't formally accept the plea agreement until they sentence the defendant. That's when the defendant finds out if the court will go along with the deal.

A defendant can withdraw a guilty plea right up to the point where the sentence is passed. The judge will ask them one final time if they want to change their mind, he will caution the defendant that he is not bound by the agreement, the case cannot be appealed, and violation of the terms of the plea deal are grounds for an administrative conviction on the original charge.

Almost always, the court will go along with the plea agreement. But they are not required to.

What NEVER happened was Flynn pleading guilty more than once, or to more than one count of the 1001 violation. The only way that would happen is if additional charges were added later, or if the case was dropped and a new indictment was brought with different charges.

There is also the _very questionable_ legal principle of charging perjury in an investigation where there was no underlying crime. Perjury has elements like every other crime, and one of the elements is that the false statement is intended to affect the outcome of a case. When there is no crime, there is no outcome to manipulate with a false statement. They were questioning Flynn about a phone call that was not improper in any way, and then charged him with lying about it.

The FBI's own documents show that it was a pretextual investigation, intentionally disguised as a defensive briefing. They admit that. They knew exactly what was said on the call, they were listening in. They had no cause to question Flynn about it. It was a setup, pure and simple. Charging someone for obstructing an investigation that shouldn't even be happening is not a legitimate application of the statute, which is why they DISMISSED the charges. _With prejudice_, I might add...


----------



## BWK

bripat9643 said:


> He should never have been interrogated by a couple of deep state apparatchiks.  He wasn't suspected of any crime.


Deep state is not a fact. You are a liar on top of it.


----------



## bripat9643

BWK said:


> You said Flynn should have never gone to court. That's not a fact, that's an idiotic opinion coming from a total ignoramus.


I didn't say it was a fact.  It's my opinion.  That fact that he was indicted shows that our legal system is thoroughly corrupt


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> It doesn't matter, dumb fuck. Both are bad options.  A choice between two bad options imposed on you is not a free choice.  It's tyranny.



Of course it matters, fucking moron. For one, your analogy absurdum fails you because a woman facing rape or death faces that as the victim of a crime and of no fault of her own; whereas Flynn faced his consequences because he chose to break the law. Even worse for you, prison or broke were not his only choices, which is how you falsely framed it. He could have solicited for financial aid with a gofundme page. He could have opted for a public defender. So no, he didn't have to pick betweeen prison or going broke. And he picked the worst situation, which was go to prison.

Are you ever not a fucking moron?

Ever???


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Yes, I didn't present the known facts.  Everyone already knows them.



You're lying again, fucking moron. You presented no facts. You made a claim and now you're citing yourself as proof rather than present actual proof.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> It doesn't matter, dumb fuck. Both are bad options.  A choice between two bad options imposed on you is not a free choice.  It's tyranny.



Again, fucking moron, prison or bankrupt weren't his only choices. You're flopping around now like a dying fish over your own creation of false choices.


----------



## postman

bripat9643 said:


> Both are bad options.  Where did you say bad options don't count?  If they don't count, that includes spending every last dime you have on lawyers.


Flynn spent more on lawyers after pleading guilty than he did before.

That's not putting up a defense, that's trying to have your cake and eat it too.


----------



## postman

bripat9643 said:


> If that's the case, then how does spending every last dime you have on lawyers constitute a "viable option?"



It's not a viable option.

That's why you should never lie to the FBI, or that will become your only option.  That and pleading guilty.

If you're going to be stupid enough to lie to the FBI, you shouldn't complain when the feds make a federal case of it.


----------



## postman

BWK said:


> You said Flynn should have never gone to court. That's not a fact, that's an idiotic opinion coming from a total ignoramus.



Actually if Flynn never lied to the FBI, he never would have gone to court.

See how that works.  Commit a crime, you go to court.
You don't commit a crime, you don't go to court.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Of course it matters, fucking moron. For one, your analogy absurdum fails you because a woman facing rape or death faces that as the victim of a crime and of no fault of her own; whereas Flynn faced his consequences because he chose to break the law. Even worse for you, prison or broke were not his only choices, which is how you falsely framed it. He could have solicited for financial aid with a gofundme page. He could have opted for a public defender. So no, he didn't have to pick betweeen prison or going broke. And he picked the worst situation, which was go to prison.
> 
> Are you ever not a fucking moron?
> 
> Ever???


It certainly does not matter.  Bad choices are bad choices, and if they are imposed on you, then you don't have a free choice.  It doesn't matter how that decision was forced on you.  It's still a bad choice. 

Your argument depends on Flynn being guilty, and that was never established.  Even if he was guilty, it's still no a free choice.  Do you claim that a prisoner on death row makes a "free choice" to get executed?

You really are a fucking moron.


Faun said:


> Again, fucking moron, prison or bankrupt weren't his only choices. You're flopping around now like a dying fish over your own creation of false choices.


He didn't have the choice of walking away scot free.  If he doesn't have that choice, then his choice is not free.

You're the one who is flopping around because you claim it was voluntary so long as he had a choice.  Then when it became obvious that your argument was pure idiocy, you switched that to "viable option."  Now you don't even want to defend that position.

You're using the logic of the police state because you're a NAZI thug


----------



## postman

para bellum said:


> What NEVER happened was Flynn pleading guilty more than once, or to more than one count of the 1001 violation. The only way that would happen is if additional charges were added later, or if the case was dropped and a new indictment was brought with different charges.


So far so good


para bellum said:


> There is also the _very questionable_ legal principle of charging perjury in an investigation where there was no underlying crime. Perjury has elements like every other crime, and one of the elements is that the false statement is intended to affect the outcome of a case. When there is no crime, there is no outcome to manipulate with a false statement. They were questioning Flynn about a phone call that was not improper in any way, and then charged him with lying about it.



This is where you lost it.  As you said, Flynn was charged with 18 USC 1001, not perjury.  

*The federal perjury statute is 18 USC 1621. *


----------



## postman

bripat9643 said:


> Your argument depends on Flynn being guilty, and that was never established.  Even if he was guilty, it's still no a free choice.  Do you claim that a prisoner on death row makes a "free choice" to get executed?


Flynn made a free choice to *lie to Mike Pence* Then Flynn made another free choice to *lie to the FBI*

Exercise of such free choices still carry consequences.


----------



## para bellum

postman said:


> ...This is where you lost it.  As you said, Flynn was charged with 18 USC 1001, not perjury.
> 
> *The federal perjury statute is 18 USC 1621. *


Yes, I know they are different statutes and probably have differences in the way they are defined.

The principle is the same though. Making a false statement and incurring a criminal penalty for it, there has to be an intent to alter the investigation in some way that is favorable to the person making the false statement.

If you want me to hunt through the definitions I can, I am sure it will be there in 18USC somewhere.

I will try not to use 'common use' terms like perjury instead of "making a false statement", but I did clarify the statute some time ago.

The point isn't my misuse of the term "perjury", but that in basic common law legal principle, there has to be a reasonable belief that there is an underlying crime. The FBI in this case knew there was no crime, the interview with Flynn was a "perjury trap", as the FBI memos reveal. They used the term themselves, when discussing why they were having the January 24 meeting with Flynn, and what they were hoping to get out of it.


----------



## Faun

para bellum said:


> Well now you are just making shit up as you go. First you said it was in 2 separate courts.
> 
> 
> There was only ever one court- the US Federal District Court for D.C. Now you are claiming he entered more than one plea. If you think he did that, then post the second one.
> 
> He pled guilty in his first appearance, he doesn't have to do it again just because the judge changes- it's still the same case, with the same court record.
> 
> Sullivan's discovery order was appropriate because he was holding the case open. Judges don't formally accept the plea agreement until they sentence the defendant. That's when the defendant finds out if the court will go along with the deal.
> 
> A defendant can withdraw a guilty plea right up to the point where the sentence is passed. The judge will ask them one final time if they want to change their mind, he will caution the defendant that he is not bound by the agreement, the case cannot be appealed, and violation of the terms of the plea deal are grounds for an administrative conviction on the original charge.
> 
> Almost always, the court will go along with the plea agreement. But they are not required to.
> 
> What NEVER happened was Flynn pleading guilty more than once, or to more than one count of the 1001 violation. The only way that would happen is if additional charges were added later, or if the case was dropped and a new indictment was brought with different charges.
> 
> There is also the _very questionable_ legal principle of charging perjury in an investigation where there was no underlying crime. Perjury has elements like every other crime, and one of the elements is that the false statement is intended to affect the outcome of a case. When there is no crime, there is no outcome to manipulate with a false statement. They were questioning Flynn about a phone call that was not improper in any way, and then charged him with lying about it.
> 
> The FBI's own documents show that it was a pretextual investigation, intentionally disguised as a defensive briefing. They admit that. Charging someone for obstructing an investigation that shouldn't even be happening is not a legitimate application of the statute, which is why they DISMISSED the charges. _With prejudice_, I might add...



Again, two separate courts as in Contreras' court and then in Sullivan's court. And by pleading guilty to both judges, what I mean is despite Flynn agreeing to waive any further discovery or disclosures, Judge Sullivan still ordered prosecutors to provide exculpatory evidence; and asked Flynn if he wanted to challenge his FBI interview. Flynn rejected that challenge and instead, maintained his guilty plea.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> It certainly does not matter.  Bad choices are bad choices, and if they are imposed on you, then you don't have a free choice.  It doesn't matter how that decision was forced on you.  It's still a bad choice.
> 
> Your argument depends on Flynn being guilty, and that was never established.  Even if he was guilty, it's still no a free choice.  Do you claim that a prisoner on death row makes a "free choice" to get executed?
> 
> You really are a fucking moron.
> 
> He didn't have the choice of walking away scot free.  If he doesn't have that choice, then his choice is not free.
> 
> You're the one who is flopping around because you claim it was voluntary so long as he had a choice.  Then when it became obvious that your argument was pure idiocy, you switched that to "viable option."  Now you don't even want to defend that position.
> 
> You're using the logic of the police state because you're a NAZI thug



LOL

You're such a fucking moron. 

Again, fucking moron, you're comparing a woman being forced at no fault of her own to life or death; with Flynn not choosing life or death over consequences he brought upon himself.


----------



## postman

para bellum said:


> The principle is the same though. Making a false statement and incurring a criminal penalty for it, there has to be an intent to alter the investigation *in some way that is favorable to the person making the false statement*.



That's an incorrect interpretation.  The benefit can be to any third party as well.   Example:  A witness who lies to help a family member, even though receiving no direct benefit himself.

The lie that Flynn told only has to deal with something material to "ANY INVESTIGATION" the FBI is undertaking.


----------



## Faun

para bellum said:


> Yes, I know they are different statutes and probably have differences in the way they are defined.
> 
> The principle is the same though. Making a false statement and incurring a criminal penalty for it, there has to be an intent to alter the investigation in some way that is favorable to the person making the false statement.
> 
> If you want me to hunt through the definitions I can, I am sure it will be there in 18USC somewhere.
> 
> I will try not to use 'common use' terms like perjury instead of "making a false statement", but I did clarify the statute some time ago.
> 
> The point isn't my misuse of the term "perjury", but that in basic common law legal principle, there has to be a reasonable belief that there is an underlying crime. The FBI in this case knew there was no crime, the interview with Flynn was a "perjury trap", as the FBI memos reveal. They used the term themselves, when discussing why they were having the January 24 meeting with Flynn, and what they were hoping to get out of it.



Nonsense. Flynn was interviewed by the FBI during an investigation into Russian collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. It was a legit interview and Flynn broke the law when he lied to them.


----------



## postman

Faun said:


> Again, two separate courts as in Contreras' court and then in Sullivan's court. And by pleading guilty to both judges, what I mean is despite Flynn agreeing to waive any further discovery or disclosures, Judge Sullivan still ordered prosecutors to provide exculpatory evidence; and asked Flynn if he wanted to challenge his FBI interview. Flynn rejected that challenge and instead, maintained his guilty plea.



Technically it's the same "court", but each federal judge is independent when a case is transferred to him.  He can take a "de novo" approach.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> LOL
> 
> You're such a fucking moron.
> 
> Again, fucking moron, you're comparing a woman being forced at no fault of her own to life or death; with Flynn not choosing life or death over consequences he brought upon himself.


Know what I compared I'm comparing two similar situations.  All you're saying is the usual Dim weasel of claiming they aren't identical examples.  If they were identical, they would be the same example.

You're obviously trying to distract from your theory that the choice has to be "viable."  That's because you know I can shoot it full of holes in a microsecond.

So which is it?  Does being given any choice make it voluntary, or is a "viable choice" required?  If the later, please define what you mean by viable.

So what if one of the woman's choices is "life or death."  Is that the criteria for "viable?"  You keep avoiding discussion of this part of your claim.

Try answering a question about your theory of "voluntary."


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Nonsense. Flynn was interviewed by the FBI during an investigation into Russian collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. It was a legit interview and Flynn broke the law when he lied to them.


How was it legit when they lied about the reason for the interview?  They lied when they told them he didn't need a lawyer.

Lie, lie, lie.


----------



## bripat9643

postman said:


> Actually if Flynn never lied to the FBI, he never would have gone to court.
> 
> See how that works.  Commit a crime, you go to court.
> You don't commit a crime, you don't go to court.


That's the police state view of the matter.


----------



## bripat9643

postman said:


> That's an incorrect interpretation.  The benefit can be to any third party as well.   Example:  A witness who lies to help a family member, even though receiving no direct benefit himself.
> 
> The lie that Flynn told only has to deal with something material to "ANY INVESTIGATION" the FBI is undertaking.


What investigation was it material to?


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Know what I compared I'm comparing two similar situations.  All you're saying is the usual Dim weasel of claiming they aren't identical examples.  If they were identical, they would be the same example.
> 
> You're obviously trying to distract from your theory that the choice has to be "viable."  That's because you know I can shoot it full of holes in a microsecond.
> 
> So which is it?  Does being given any choice make it voluntary, or is a "viable choice" required?  If the later, please define what you mean by viable.
> 
> So what if one of the woman's choices is "life or death."  Is that the criteria for "viable?"  You keep avoiding discussion of this part of your claim.
> 
> Try answering a question about your theory of "voluntary."



A woman, at no fault of her own, being forced to choose between raped or murdered -- is nowhere near comparable to Flynn, who put himself into a situation where he had to choose between pleading guilty, not guilty or nolo contendere.

That you think they are comparable merely highlights just how fucked in the head you really are, fucking moron.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> How was it legit when they lied about the reason for the interview?  They lied when they told them he didn't need a lawyer.
> 
> Lie, lie, lie.



It's true, he didn't need a lawyer. That's not legalese for, _ok Flynn, you can lie to us now._


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> That's the police state view of the matter.



Who knows why you make that sound like a bad thing?


----------



## surada

bripat9643 said:


> In other words, you admit there are no credible sources for your claim.


So Trump only hired people who have no credibility m


----------



## postman

bripat9643 said:


> How was it legit when they lied about the reason for the interview?  They lied when they told them he didn't need a lawyer.
> 
> Lie, lie, lie.



Actually it was the truth.  If Flynn told them the truth, he never would have needed a lawyer.

But since Flynn already lied to Mike Pence, and got fired for it.  He was in a corner, whether to lie to the FBI, or admit to the FBI that he lied to Mike Pence.

Since only lying to the FBI is a crime, Flynn chose to break t he law.


----------



## para bellum

This is unbelievably obtuse. We know most of the facts surrounding all this.

The criminality was on the part of the FBI, not anyone surrounding Trump. Their own documents show it, the IG Report showed it.

The prosecutions of the people surrounding Trump were purely political prosecutions. They were trying to get someone to flip and give the FBI something real to justify their investigation. Internally, the FBI was freaking out- buying professional liability insurance policies and lawyering up.

The whole thing was a sham, start to finish. The only question is whether or not Durham does anything about it.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> A woman, at no fault of her own, being forced to choose between raped or murdered -- is nowhere near comparable to Flynn, who put himself into a situation where he had to choose between pleading guilty, not guilty or nolo contendere.
> 
> That you think they are comparable merely highlights just how fucked in the head you really are, fucking moron.


None of that matters, dipshit.  All that matters is whether her choices and Flynns choices were "voluntary."  According to your theory that all that matters is being given a choice is obvious horshit.

You're doing your usual wesel dance of not answer the question.  How does the example of the woman getting raped not follow your criteria of being "given a choice."  You have yet to answer that.  All you do is feign outrage over the fact that one of her choices is getting raped.


surada said:


> So Trump only hired people who have no credibility m


No, you just cite people who you believe have no credibility.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> None of that matters, dipshit.  All that matters is whether her choices and Flynns choices were "voluntary."  According to your theory that all that matters is being given a choice is obvious horshit.
> 
> You're doing your usual wesel dance of not answer the question.  How does the example of the woman getting raped not follow your criteria of being "given a choice."  You have yet to answer that.  All you do is feign outrage over the fact that one of her choices is getting raped.
> 
> No, you just cite people who you believe have no credibility.



Of course it matters. Your vacuous denials don't change that.


----------



## postman

bripat9643 said:


> None of that matters, dipshit.  All that matters is whether her choices and Flynns choices were "voluntary."  According to your theory that all that matters is being given a choice is obvious horshit.


Flynn was given many choices, and he chose to voluntarily lie to the people asking him questions.
Flynn lied to Mike Pence.
Flynn lied to the FBI

Flynn could have chosen to remain silent, another voluntary choice.


----------



## bripat9643

postman said:


> Flynn was given many choices, and he chose to voluntarily lie to the people asking him questions.
> Flynn lied to Mike Pence.
> Flynn lied to the FBI
> 
> Flynn could have chosen to remain silent, another voluntary choice.


All that is irrelevant, you lying shithead.  The only choice being discussed here is his choice to accept a plea bargain.  The claim that it was voluntary is obvious horsehit.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> All that is irrelevant, you lying shithead.  The only choice being discussed here is his choice to accept a plea bargain.  The claim that it was voluntary is obvious horsehit.



Of course it was voluntary. He didn't have to accept the deal.


----------



## Batcat

surada said:


> All the men around Trump were better men than he is.  You know they hated being stuck with him.. Trump wasted his presidency.


Sure Trump wasted his presidency. Hillary had nothing to do with all the problems Trump faced. 









						Hillary's Conspiracy: Trump was Right. - Uncle Sam's Misguided Children
					

Trump was roundly mocked when he said he was wiretapped, but according to Durham in a court filing on Friday, he was right: conspiracy.




					www.unclesamsmisguidedchildren.com
				












						Eyes turn to Hillary Clinton, not Trump in the Russiagate scandal
					

Russiagate, the collective delusion that Donald Trump was secretly a Russian agent aided and abetted by the Kremlin, the topic of uncountable inches of Washington Post and New York Times copy and t…




					nypost.com


----------



## surada

Batcat said:


> Sure Trump wasted his presidency. Hillary had nothing to do with all the problems Trump faced.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary's Conspiracy: Trump was Right. - Uncle Sam's Misguided Children
> 
> 
> Trump was roundly mocked when he said he was wiretapped, but according to Durham in a court filing on Friday, he was right: conspiracy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.unclesamsmisguidedchildren.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eyes turn to Hillary Clinton, not Trump in the Russiagate scandal
> 
> 
> Russiagate, the collective delusion that Donald Trump was secretly a Russian agent aided and abetted by the Kremlin, the topic of uncountable inches of Washington Post and New York Times copy and t…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nypost.com


Are you blaming Hillary for Trump's mouth... His constant tweets, lies and conspiracy theories?


----------



## Faun

Batcat said:


> Sure Trump wasted his presidency. Hillary had nothing to do with all the problems Trump faced.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary's Conspiracy: Trump was Right. - Uncle Sam's Misguided Children
> 
> 
> Trump was roundly mocked when he said he was wiretapped, but according to Durham in a court filing on Friday, he was right: conspiracy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.unclesamsmisguidedchildren.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eyes turn to Hillary Clinton, not Trump in the Russiagate scandal
> 
> 
> Russiagate, the collective delusion that Donald Trump was secretly a Russian agent aided and abetted by the Kremlin, the topic of uncountable inches of Washington Post and New York Times copy and t…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nypost.com



Of course Trump was mocked. To this day there's still no evidence Trump was wiretapped.


----------



## Lastamender

Faun said:


> Of course Trump was movked. To this day there's still no evidence Trump was wiretapped.


Bullshit. That is why they lied to the FISA court. You are an idiot.


----------



## surada

Trump is not a Russian agent. He's far too stupid and cannot shut his mouth.


----------



## Faun

Lastamender said:


> Bullshit. That is why they lied to the FISA court. You are an idiot.



He still wasn't wiretapped.

Of course, I'm saying this to a raving lunatic who still believes the 2020 election was stolen even though he can't prove after 16 months and counting.


----------



## Lastamender

Faun said:


> He still wasn't wiretapped.
> 
> Of course, I'm saying this to a raving lunatic who still believes the 2020 election was stolen even though he can't prove after 16 months and counting.


Prove it.


----------



## Faun

Lastamender said:


> Prove it.



The proof is there is no evidence, ya putz.


----------



## surada

Lastamender said:


> Bullshit. That is why they lied to the FISA court. You are an idiot.


Repeated calls to the Russian embassy is what generated the FISA warrants.


----------



## Lastamender

Trump Tears Into Barr in Letter to Lester Holt: 'He Crumbled Under the Pressure'
					

"He was afraid to act, and usually didn't."




					ijr.com


----------



## Lastamender

surada said:


> Repeated calls to the Russian embassy is what generated the FISA warrants.


No, the lying FBI said the Steele dossier had been verified. Try the truth, you sack of shit.


----------



## Lesh

surada said:


> Trump is not a Russian agent. He's far too stupid and cannot shut his mouth.


"Agent" is the wrong word.

"Asset" is more accurate. Someone being USED by Putin. And he has used Trump for years...and still is


----------



## Lastamender

Lesh said:


> "Agent" is the wrong word.
> 
> "Asset" is more accurate. Someone being USED by Putin. And he has used Trump for years...and still is


Boy, did they see you coming, you dumbass.


----------



## Batcat

Faun said:


> Of course Trump was mocked. To this day there's still no evidence Trump was wiretapped.


That depends on which propaganda you read. 









						Trump was right after all about the Obama administration wiretaps
					

OPINION | The curious thing about President Trump is that his method and language in communications often mask legitimate issues or concerns.




					thehill.com
				





surada said:


> Are you blaming Hillary for Trump's mouth... His constant tweets, lies and conspiracy theories?


No but I am blaming Hillary for trying her best to ruin the Trump presidency. Hillary is a vindictive witch. 









						Hillary Clinton's Greatest Masterpiece: Will the people ever learn how false information was seeded throughout the government and media in a conspiratorial effort to destroy a sitting president? | Victor Davis Hanson
					

Hillary Clinton's never-ending shenanigans in 2015-2016 could be summarized as an attempted slow-motion coup.  Four years of national hysteria, a divided nation, and dangerous new tensions with Russia were some of the wages of Clinton's machinations. Clinton hired a British national and ex-spy...




					www.independent.org


----------



## postman

surada said:


> Repeated calls to the Russian embassy is what generated the FISA warrants.





Lastamender said:


> No, the lying FBI said the Steele dossier had been verified. Try the truth, you sack of shit.


Actually the calls to the Russian embassy is what generated the FISA warrants.  The NSA had been wiretapping the Russian embassy from the beginning of time.


----------



## Lastamender

postman said:


> Actually the calls to the Russian embassy is what generated the FISA warrants.  The NSA had been wiretapping the Russian embassy from the beginning of time.


Then why did they say the Steele dossier had been verified to the FISA court?


----------



## postman

Batcat said:


> No but I am blaming Hillary for trying her best to ruin the Trump presidency. Hillary is a vindictive witch.



Actually the person who ruined the Trump presidency was Donald John Trump.

Remember, COVID-19 was no more serious than the seasonal flu.


----------



## Lastamender

postman said:


> Actually the person who ruined the Trump presidency was Donald John Trump.
> 
> Remember, COVID-19 was no more serious than the seasonal flu.


That is exactly what Fauci said in the beginning.


----------



## postman

Lastamender said:


> Then why did they say the Steele dossier had been verified to the FISA court?


It don't make no difference either way. 

_The memo further claims those officials were aware at the time of their signing that the unsubstantiated Steele opposition research dossier, which was included *to bolster their warrant application,* was paid for by the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and the Clinton campaign; but the application did not include that information.

While the memo asserts the dossier was used in the initial warrant application, *it does not specify if it was used in the three successive applications to extend the warrant, which must be filed every 90 days and must include new evidence to support probable cause.* The aforementioned four senior agents signed off at various points throughout the roughly one year Page was under surveillance.
_


----------



## postman

Lastamender said:


> That is exactly what Fauci said in the beginning.


Fauci was not privy to top secret intelligence from China, NSA intercepts, and satellite surveillance of Wuhan.

Trump even admitted to Bob Woodward he was briefed how bad COVID-19 was in January 2020, and that he would "play it down"


----------



## Lastamender

postman said:


> It don't make no difference either way.
> 
> _The memo further claims those officials were aware at the time of their signing that the unsubstantiated Steele opposition research dossier, which was included *to bolster their warrant application,* was paid for by the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and the Clinton campaign; but the application did not include that information.
> 
> While the memo asserts the dossier was used in the initial warrant application, *it does not specify if it was used in the three successive applications to extend the warrant, which must be filed every 90 days and must include new evidence to support probable cause.* The aforementioned four senior agents signed off at various points throughout the roughly one year Page was under surveillance._


The FBI lying makes no difference? Are you that stupid?


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Of course it was voluntary. He didn't have to accept the deal.


Why not, because he had a "choice?"  Of course he had to accept the deal.  It's either that or spend every dime he has on lawyers.  That's what you call "voluntary."   That's what makes you a fucking NAZI.

Why do you keep reusing the same old already exploded argument?


----------



## Lastamender

postman said:


> Fauci was not privy to top secret intelligence from China, NSA intercepts, and satellite surveillance of Wuhan.
> 
> Trump even admitted to Bob Woodward he was briefed how bad COVID-19 was in January 2020, and that he would "play it down"


Bullshit Fauci was up to his lying neck in gain of function research. That has been proven by Rand Paul.


----------



## Clipper

BrokeLoser said:


> 1.) American’s First
> 2.) Fuck Wetbacks


"I'll be golfing in Florida this weekend, so don't bother me. Give it to Jared".


----------



## Clipper

Lastamender said:


> Bullshit Fauci was up to his lying neck in gain of function research. That has been proven by Rand Paul.


Rand Paul proved nothing & never got over getting his ass beat by his neighbor.


----------



## Lastamender

Clipper said:


> Rand Paul proved nothing & never got over getting his ass beat by his neighbor.


Rand Paul caught Fauci in a lie and referred criminal charges to the DOJ that has done nothing about it.


----------



## Clipper

Lastamender said:


> Rand Paul caught Fauci in a lie and referred criminal charges to the DOJ that has done nothing about it.


Because they're laughing at it around the water cooler.


----------



## Lastamender

Clipper said:


> Because they're laughing at it around the water cooler.


People above the law is not a good thing. You are an idiot for not holding people accountable. It is destroying this country.


----------



## Batcat

postman said:


> Actually the person who ruined the Trump presidency was Donald John Trump.
> 
> Remember, COVID-19 was no more serious than the seasonal flu.


If Trump had not been President we would still be waiting for the vaccines. Note the linked article comes from CNN. 









						Trump scores a long-awaited coronavirus win with vaccines on the way | CNN Politics
					

President Donald Trump finally has something legitimate to take credit for in his coronavirus response: A vaccine that appears poised to reach Americans in record time.




					www.cnn.com
				




_CNN)President Donald Trump finally has something legitimate to take credit for in his coronavirus response: A vaccine that appears poised to reach Americans in record time.
The federal government poured billions into developing and manufacturing vaccine candidates in the hopes they would prove safe and effective. The pricey gamble appears to be paying off, with a vaccine on track to reach some Americans by the end of the year -- the fastest a vaccine has ever been developed.

"Should the administration be praised for this? Absolutely," said Dr. Paul Offit, director of the Vaccine Education Center at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and a sharp critic of the administration's coronavirus response. "Donald Trump probably doesn't know the difference between a white cell and a prison cell, but the administration got this right."

Health experts broadly agree that the Trump administration's national vaccine strategy was a success. The Trump administration was willing to invest in new vaccine technologies, foot the bill for large, expensive clinical studies and simultaneously pay for manufacturing vaccine candidates before it was clear they would prove effective and safe._


----------



## para bellum

postman said:


> Actually the calls to the Russian embassy is what generated the FISA warrants.  The NSA had been wiretapping the Russian embassy from the beginning of time.


No. The IG report says, and the FBI acknowledged, that the Steele Dossier was "central and essential" to the FISA applications. The supposed communications with Russians they cited were from a Yahoo News article that the FBI did not even bother to verify. The Yahoo News article was put out by Christopher Steele.

They didn't get the first FISA until they had the Steele Dossier, and the Yahoo News piece to "back it up".

They knew Carter Page worked with the CIA since at least 2009- they had met with him in the FBI's NY field office, they were aware that he was a CIA source. It was only in 2016 that they decided he might be a Russian agent. 

They knew by January the Steele Dossier was garbage, but they continued to use it for 3 more FISA renewals.

Banana republic bullshit.


----------



## surada

Lastamender said:


> Then why did they say the Steele dossier had been verified to the FISA court?


They didn't say that. Every thing in the Steeler dossier was confirmed previously except for the bit about prostitutes peeing on the bed. They knew that stuff before Trump ran for office. He has a nasty reputation going back 40 years.


----------



## surada

para bellum said:


> No. The IG report says, and the FBI acknowledged, that the Steele Dossier was "central and essential" to the FISA applications. The supposed communications with Russians they cited were from a Yahoo News article that the FBI did not even bother to verify. The Yahoo News article was put out by Christopher Steele.
> 
> They didn't get the first FISA until they had the Steele Dossier, and the Yahoo News piece to "back it up".
> 
> They knew Carter Page worked with the CIA since at least 2009- they had met with him in the FBI's NY field office, they were aware that he was a CIA source. It was only in 2016 that they decided he might be a Russian agent.
> 
> They knew by January the Steele Dossier was garbage, but they continued to use it for 3 more FISA renewals.
> 
> Banana republic bullshit.


Carter page? Yeah they knew about him before he joined the Trump campaign. All the people around Trump were sleaze bags.


----------



## surada

Lesh said:


> "Agent" is the wrong word.
> 
> "Asset" is more accurate. Someone being USED by Putin. And he has used Trump for years...and still is


Asset is the word. Trump is  very needy for praise and attention. He's not exactly manly.


----------



## para bellum

postman said:


> Fauci was not privy to top secret intelligence from China, NSA intercepts, and satellite surveillance of Wuhan.


Fauci didn't need any of that. He knew exactly what the virus was. He funded the experiment that created it. 

It's a naturally-attenuated SARS-COV backbone with a specialized spike protein designed by Ralph Baric at UNC Chapel Hill and inserted into the SARSr-COV backbone in the lab in Wuhan. The whole thing was a Rube Goldberg attempt to induce immunity in bat populations to SARS-COV's that can jump to humans. 

The experiment was designed and ran by Peter Dazhak's EcoHealth Alliance. Fauci picked it up after DARPA rejected it for GOF reasons. 

Dazhak and Fauci go way back, and any claims of ignorance from Fauci are BS.


postman said:


> Trump even admitted to Bob Woodward he was briefed how bad COVID-19 was in January 2020, and that he would "play it down"


Well, it sure didn't get "played down".


----------



## Lastamender

surada said:


> They didn't say that. Every thing in the Steeler dossier was confirmed previously except for the bit about prostitutes peeing on the bed. They knew that stuff before Trump ran for office. He has a nasty reputation going back 40 years.


Are you crazy? Nothing in the dossier was confirmed.


----------



## Lastamender

surada said:


> Carter page? Yeah they knew about him before he joined the Trump campaign. All the people around Trump were sleaze bags.


That sleaze bag graduated from the Navy Academy. You people love soldiers all of a sudden, why doesn't Page count?


----------



## Faun

Batcat said:


> That depends on which propaganda you read.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump was right after all about the Obama administration wiretaps
> 
> 
> OPINION | The curious thing about President Trump is that his method and language in communications often mask legitimate issues or concerns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thehill.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No but I am blaming Hillary for trying her best to ruin the Trump presidency. Hillary is a vindictive witch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary Clinton's Greatest Masterpiece: Will the people ever learn how false information was seeded throughout the government and media in a conspiratorial effort to destroy a sitting president? | Victor Davis Hanson
> 
> 
> Hillary Clinton's never-ending shenanigans in 2015-2016 could be summarized as an attempted slow-motion coup.  Four years of national hysteria, a divided nation, and dangerous new tensions with Russia were some of the wages of Clinton's machinations. Clinton hired a British national and ex-spy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 612049



Nope, still no evidence that Trump was spied on, no matter how loosely you define "wiretapped." Your link is merely an op/Ed pointing out some ex-members of Trump's campaign were spied on. Ex-members are not Trump.


----------



## Lastamender

Faun said:


> Nope, still no evidence that Trump was spied on, no matter how loosely you define "wiretapped." Your link is merely an op/Ed pointing out some ex-members of Trump's campaign were spied on. Ex-members are not Trump.


There will never be enough evidence for a brainwashed sycophant like you. That is why your posts are unnecessary.


----------



## para bellum

Lastamender said:


> Are you crazy? Nothing in the dossier was confirmed.


That's not true. Comey himself said that they did confirm that Carter Page actually did travel to Russia some time in the past. Nothing else in the Dossier was ever confirmed, lol. But someone really did go to Russia....

Meanwhile, Igor Danchenko, the primary source for Steele has been indicted on 5 counts....



			https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2021/images/11/04/indictment.pdf


----------



## Batcat

Faun said:


> He still wasn't wiretapped.
> 
> Of course, I'm saying this to a raving lunatic who still believes the 2020 election was stolen even though he can't prove after 16 months and counting.


I predict one day in the future the historians will admit the 2020 election was rigged by the Democrats. That fact can’t be admitted today because of the backlash.


----------



## Lastamender

para bellum said:


> That's not true. Comey himself said that they did confirm that Carter Page actually did travel to Russia some time in the past. Nothing else in the Dossier was ever confirmed, lol. But someone really did go to Russia....
> 
> Meanwhile, Igor Danchenko, the primary source for Steele has been indicted on 5 counts....
> 
> 
> 
> https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2021/images/11/04/indictment.pdf


Page was working with the CIA.


----------



## para bellum

Thee FISA warrant is way more invasive than a conventional warrant for a US citizen. It includes all electronic communications and goes 3 layers deep. The subject of the warrant, anyone he communicates with, anyone _they_ communicate with, etc.

Your address book, everyone on your address book's address book, and on down. 

3 layers. It's a _Foreign Intelligence_ surveillance tool.


----------



## Chillicothe

Batcat said:


> _I predict one day in the future the historians will admit the 2020 election was rigged by the Democrats._



Do you have an ETA on the announcement about the rigging?

Seriously, of course there will be some flavor of historian who will say as much. Partisan historians are likely saying it right now.  And partisan historians will likely say it later.

But the weight of today's evidence illustrates a clean election (as such things go. There is always low-grade pettyass fraudsters, like we saw over at the Villages in Florida).  In fact, the guy DTrump appointed to oversee the election, Chris Krebs, said it was done right.  DTrump fired the guy for saying so.  
But....it is important to note: It WAS Trump's guy who said it. Not some holdover from some prior Administration.

Here's a brief note from MarketWatch:
_“The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history,” the statement said. “There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised.”

In a tweet from his personal account Tuesday night, Krebs maintained: “We did it right.”_

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And, while we are speaking of one of "Trump's Guys".....we must not forget his favorite pollster, Tony Fabrizio, who did an extensive polling right after the election. And he told Don Trump what he found out. Which was:  More people thought Don Trump was untrustworthy and incompetent than people who though it he wasn't either of those things.  And that was why he lost. Not cheating by anybody.

So there is that.


----------



## para bellum

Lastamender said:


> Page was working with the CIA.


I know. 

So did the FBI know. They knew before they opened the investigation into Page in August. They knew after they opened the investigation, and forged an email to conceal the fact that they knew.

They only got concerned about him after he joined the Trump team in 2016. Then all of a sudden he was a suspicious person, possibly a Russian agent.

Like I said, banana republic crap.

Popadopolous goes to jail for getting a date wrong, but the FBI guy that forges a document for a FISA warrant gets probation, and the DC Bar reinstated his license even though he hadn't even finished his probation.


----------



## para bellum

Lastamender said:


> Page was working with the CIA.


To continue on this a bit. Page was traveling to Russia on his own business, and was briefing the CIA on his visits and the people, etc. So he wasn't traveling on their behalf, but he wasn't hiding anything and didn't have any security clearances and no one in government was suspicious of him. He was just a source for the CIA, they had interest in people he met with, or whatever.

They didn't have anything like probable cause to open any of the individual investigations. The entire basis was the notion that someone was communicating with the Russians, and who are the most likely people? We will investigate them.

Because Downer said Popadopolus said something about Russians, but he never said who in the Trump campaign was supposed to be talking to the Russians, so let's investigate everyone.

FISA allows you to do that, I guess.


----------



## rightnow909

surada said:


> Barr told Trump to his face 'you're going to lose' because he was humiliating himself at COVID briefings: book
> 
> 
> Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker's new book I Alone Can Fix It contains some stories about former Attorney General Bill Barr using surprisingly blunt language to convince former President Donald Trump to stop doing daily coronavirus briefings."I feel you are going to lose the election," Barr told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, I don't need to add ANYTHING to that. Well except his appeal to VIOLENCE and the violent. Barr didn't mention that, at least in this reporting...
> 
> "You're going to lose because there's going to be enough people who otherwise would vote for you who are
> just tired of the acrimony, the pettiness, the punching down and picking a fight at every moment, and the apparent
> chaos, and they're just going to say, 'We're tired of this sh*t.' "


If... (big word there... IF) Barr used the sh word like  that and talked so disrespectfully to his president

I have lost all respect for him...

But I don't believe everything I read on the internet...

I don't accept everything some partisan says is true just bc it is there in black and white... guess I am kind of funny that way...

not buying this at all... When i see the same story on Newsmax or OANN or what have you... then I will consider the veracity thereof

until then... better things to do...



+


----------



## Lesh

para bellum said:


> They only got concerned about him after he joined the Trump team in 2016.


Also not true.

Page had been investigated for his dealings with Russians back in 2013-2014


----------



## Batcat

Chillicothe said:


> Do you have an ETA on the announcement about the rigging?
> 
> Seriously, of course there will be some flavor of historian who will say as much. Partisan historians are likely saying it right now.  And partisan historians will likely say it later.
> 
> But the weight of today's evidence illustrates a clean election (as such things go. There is always low-grade pettyass fraudsters, like we saw over at the Villages in Florida).  In fact, the guy DTrump appointed to oversee the election, Chris Krebs, said it was done right.  DTrump fired the guy for saying so.
> But....it is important to note: It WAS Trump's guy who said it. Not some holdover from some prior Administration.
> 
> Here's a brief note from MarketWatch:
> _“The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history,” the statement said. “There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised.”
> 
> In a tweet from his personal account Tuesday night, Krebs maintained: “We did it right.”_
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> And, while we are speaking of one of "Trump's Guys".....we must not forget his favorite pollster, Tony Fabrizio, who did an extensive polling right after the election. And he told Don Trump what he found out. Which was:  More people thought Don Trump was untrustworthy and incompetent than people who though it he wasn't either of those things.  And that was why he lost. Not cheating by anybody.
> 
> So there is that.



The ETA will likely be 75 years to a century from today. 

Let’s say the CIA was behind JFK’s assassination. That info might come out someday after there is no longer a CIA. 

Every once in while sometime interesting pops up that goes against the agends. 









						American Wire News · America's Political News Service
					

American Wire is a daily independent news service dedicated to bringing our readers accurate, reliable news and information from a conservative perspective.




					www.commdiginews.com


----------



## Lesh

Batcat said:


> The ETA will likely be 75 years to a century from today.
> 
> Let’s say the CIA was behind JFK’s assassination. That info might come out someday after there is no longer a CIA.
> 
> Every once in while sometime interesting pops up that goes against the agends.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American Wire News · America's Political News Service
> 
> 
> American Wire is a daily independent news service dedicated to bringing our readers accurate, reliable news and information from a conservative perspective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.commdiginews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 612126


Which of course turned out to be bullshit


----------



## bripat9643

surada said:


> Are you blaming Hillary for Trump's mouth... His constant tweets, lies and conspiracy theories?


Hillary created the entire "Russia! Russia!  Russia!" hoax, moron.  She paid someone to create the Steele dossier.  People that worked for her were the sources for it.   That's what Durham just announced.


----------



## bripat9643

postman said:


> Actually the calls to the Russian embassy is what generated the FISA warrants.  The NSA had been wiretapping the Russian embassy from the beginning of time.


Hmmm, horseshit.  The Steele dossier was the basis for the warrants, and that was a fake document created by HIllary Clinton


----------



## Batcat

Lesh said:


> Which of course turned out to be bullshit


Of course the news media automatically calls every report of election malfeasance bullshit as soon as they appear. That’s one reason why I suspect the claims might be true. The news media protests too soon and too often.


----------



## Lesh

Batcat said:


> Of course the news media automatically calls every report of election malfeasance bullshit as soon as they appear. That’s one reason why I suspect the claims might be true. The news media protests too soon and too often.


Dude...it's been debunked.

They don't just say "bullshit"...they show why


----------



## Dr Grump

Batcat said:


> I predict one day in the future the historians will admit the 2020 election was rigged by the Democrats. That fact can’t be admitted today because of the backlash.



I predict one day in the future that historians will know that Trump lost fairly and squarely and tried a soft coup to change the result. You conspiracy theory whackadoodles crack me up.


----------



## para bellum

Lesh said:


> Also not true.
> 
> Page had been investigated for his dealings with Russians back in 2013-2014


No. He had interviews with the FBI in New York at least as early as June 2009, when he told them that he regularly reported his contacts to the CIA. They interviewed him again in 2013 about some different Russian agents that he met, and again in 2016 in connection with an indictment that was brought in 2015 against 3 Russians.

They opened the New York investigation on April 6, 2016. It was transferred to the Crossfire Hurricane team after August 1, when they opened their individual case against Page in D.C.

Page joined the Trump campaign in March. The next month the investigations into Page started.

Page was never considered a suspicious character, both the CIA and FBI had been dealing with him for years.

Horowitz report, page 61-63.



			https://www.justice.gov/storage/120919-examination.pdf


----------



## Dr Grump

S


para bellum said:


> No. He had interviews with the FBI in New York at least as early as June 2009, when he told them that he regularly reported his contacts to the CIA. They interviewed him again in 2013 about some different Russian agents that he met, and again in 2016 in connection with an indictment that was brought in 2015 against 3 Russians.
> 
> They opened the New York investigation on April 6, 2016. It was transferred to the Crossfire Hurricane team after August 1, when they opened their individual case against Page in D.C.
> 
> Page joined the Trump campaign in March. The next month the investigations into Page started.
> 
> Page was never considered a suspicious character, both the CIA and FBI had been dealing with him for years.
> 
> Horowitz report, page 61-63.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.justice.gov/storage/120919-examination.pdf


Sounds like he had three run ins with Russians prior to Trump - whether he reported it or not. Hell, if there can be an enquiry into Hunter Biden based on conspiracy theories and a gotcha against Sleepy Joe, some guy who has had interactions with Russians on several occasions prior to working for Trump deserves one.


----------



## Lesh

para bellum said:


> No. He had interviews with the FBI in New York at least as early as June 2009, when he told them that he regularly reported his contacts to the CIA. They interviewed him again in 2013 about some different Russian agents that he met, and again in 2016 in connection with an indictment that was brought in 2015 against 3 Russians.


So not "no" but yes

Page had a long history of shady contacts with Russians...so of COURSE Trump added him to his foreign policy team


----------



## para bellum

Dr Grump said:


> S
> 
> Sounds like he had three run ins with Russians prior to Trump - whether he reported it or not. Hell, if there can be an enquiry into Hunter Biden based on conspiracy theories and a gotcha against Sleepy Joe, some guy who has had interactions with Russians on several occasions prior to working for Trump deserves one.


A presidential candidate picking foreign policy advisers, are you surprised that the people selected are ones who have traveled to foreign countries and know high-level officials in the other governments?

Page didn't deny any of his contacts, no one ever charged him with anything, he was never even accused of a crime.

Hunter Biden brought attention to himself by leaving his laptop at a computer repair shop, but the investigation is because there is a record of financial transactions that triggered alarms at FinCEN.


----------



## Lesh

para bellum said:


> A presidential candidate picking foreign policy advisers, are you surprised that the people selected are ones who have traveled to foreign countries and know high-level officials in the other governments?
> 
> Page didn't deny any of his contacts, no one ever charged him with anything, he was never even accused of a crime.
> 
> Hunter Biden brought attention to himself by leaving his laptop at a computer repair shop, but the investigation is because there is a record of financial transactions that triggered alarms at FinCEN.


Give it up dude.

Page was ALWAYS a sketchy character.


----------



## Lesh

In 1998, Page joined the Eurasia Group, a strategy consulting firm, but left three months later. In 2017, Eurasia Group president Ian Bremmer recalled on his Twitter feed that Page's strong pro-Russian stance was "not a good fit" for the firm and that Page was its "most wackadoodle" alumnus.[26] Stephen Sestanovich later described Page's foreign-policy views as having "an edgy Putinist resentment" and a sympathy to Russian leader Vladimir Putin's criticisms of the United States.[2] Over time, Page became increasingly critical of United States foreign policy toward Russia, and more supportive of Putin, with a United States official describing Page as "a brazen apologist for anything Moscow did".[4] Page is frequently quoted by Russian state television, where he is presented as a "famous American economist".[3]

In August 2013, Page wrote, "Over the past half year, I have had the privilege to serve as an informal advisor to the staff of the Kremlin in preparation for their Presidency of the G-20 Summit next month, where energy issues will be a prominent point on the agenda."[27] Page described his role differently in 2018: "I sat in on some meetings, but to call me an advisor is way over the top."[28]

Also in 2013, Evgeny Buryakov and two other Russians attempted to recruit Page as an intelligence source, and one of them, Victor Podobnyy, described Page as enthusiastic about business opportunities in Russia but an "idiot".[2][25] "I also promised him a lot," Podobnyy reported to a fellow Russian intelligence officer at the time, according to an FBI transcript of their conversation, which was covertly recorded. "How else to work with foreigners?" Podobnyy added.[25][29][30]

*Page was the subject of a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrant in 2014,* at least two years earlier than was indicated in the stories concerning his role in the 2016 presidential campaign of Donald Trump.[31] 2017 news accounts about the warrant indicated it was granted because of Page's ties to Buryakov, Podobnyy, and the third Russian who attempted to recruit him, Igor Sporyshev.[32]

​


----------



## para bellum

Lesh said:


> Give it up dude.
> 
> Page was ALWAYS a sketchy character.


Who the hell cares about Page? There is such a thing as the 4th amendment that some people still think is worth fighting for.

I don't have to defend Page to criticize the FBI. The FBI were the ones breaking the law and lying every day and leaking to the press and falsifying FISA applications that should never have been submitted in the first place.


----------



## Lesh

para bellum said:


> Who the hell cares about Page? There is such a thing as the 4th amendment that some people still think is worth fighting for.
> 
> I don't have to defend Page to criticize the FBI. The FBI were the ones breaking the law and lying every day and leaking to the press and falsifying FISA applications that should never have been submitted in the first place.


You defended Page until you couldn't any longer


----------



## para bellum

Lesh said:


> ...*Page was the subject of a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrant in 2014,* at least two years earlier than was indicated in the stories concerning his role in the 2016 presidential campaign of Donald Trump.[31] 2017 news accounts about the warrant indicated it was granted because of Page's ties to Buryakov, Podobnyy, and the third Russian who attempted to recruit him, Igor Sporyshev.[32]


This is not true. That is from a CNN story, another anonymous source. Note they didn't say FISA, they say "secret intelligence surveillance warrant".

"Page had been the subject of a secret intelligence surveillance warrant since 2014, earlier than had been previously reported, US officials briefed on the probe told CNN."

That would not have been omitted by Mueller in his report, or by the IG when he described the history of Page's interactions with the FBI and CIA. and it would be front and center in the 2016 FISA applications if it was true.

We know about the 3 Russians and that were charged in 2015, and we know about the interview with the FBI in June and August 2013 concerning the Russian Intelligence officer(one of the 3 indicted), and whatever Page knew about him.

The first investigation into Page was on April 6 2016, that is the FBI's own record. Prior to 2016, he was just a source.

So that one is a CNN lie, straight up. Here is the original story.



			https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/03/politics/mueller-investigation-russia-trump-one-year-financial-ties/index.html


----------



## para bellum

Lesh said:


> You defended Page until you couldn't any longer


I defend the facts and the rule of law. It's not about Page. It's about weaponizing the FBI for political reasons.

All of the people in the Crossfire Hurricane team belong behind bars.


----------



## Batcat

Dr Grump said:


> I predict one day in the future that historians will know that Trump lost fairly and squarely and tried a soft coup to change the result. You conspiracy theory whackadoodles crack me up.


One of us will be right. 

I contend that if I am right it would be impossible in today’s contentious environment to state the last election was rigged. 

This would be the result.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

bripat9643 said:


> Pleading not guilty is perjury?


It wasn't a plea. Dude, your mommy doesn't work here. Go read up before commenting again.


----------



## para bellum

Batcat said:


> One of us will be right.
> 
> I contend that if I am right it would be impossible in today’s contentious environment to state the last election was rigged.


I ask, What Governor or Secretary of State wants to be the first one to admit their State can't run an honest  election?

I'm about halfway through Gableman's report in Wisconsin, it's outrageous. I don't see how the legislature can ignore it.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Batcat said:


> One of us will be right.


Not you.

The fact that you continued this embarrassing charade for a year without a shred of evidence will be a sad joke in the history books.

History books will also take note that Trump knows he is lying, but his embarrassing, gullible cult does not.


----------



## Batcat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Not you.
> 
> The fact that you continued this embarrassing charade for a year without a shred of evidence will be a sad joke in the history books.
> 
> History books will also take note that Trump knows he is lying, but his embarrassing, gullible cult does not.


Time will tell. The problem is we may not be around to hear the final result.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Batcat said:


> Time will tell. The problem is we may not be around to hear the final result.


Nah, time has already 'told'. Ask anyone not in your cult.


----------



## Batcat

Lesh said:


> Dude...it's been debunked.
> 
> They don't just say "bullshit"...they show why


If the election was rigged “they” would never reveal that fact. The nation would erupt and we might have a REAL insurrection. Believe it or not, even I oppose that.


----------



## Lesh

para bellum said:


> I ask, What Governor or Secretary of State wants to be the first one to admit their State can't run an honest  election?
> 
> I'm about halfway through Gableman's report in Wisconsin, it's outrageous. I don't see how the legislature can ignore it.


It's supposition and misstated facts


----------



## Batcat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Nah, time has already 'told'. Ask anyone not in your cult.


So you want me to ask a sheeple who believed for four years that Trump colluded with Putin to defeat Hillary and Trump was Putin’s puppet. Most still believe that bullshit. You are likely one of them.


----------



## Batcat

Lesh said:


> It's supposition and misstated facts


Remember how Trump was supposed to have colluded with Putin to defeat Hillary or how Trump was Putin’s puppet?

Now that was supposition and misstated facts.


----------



## Lesh

Batcat said:


> So you want me to ask a sheeple who believed for four years that Trump colluded with Putin to defeat Hillary and Trump was Putin’s puppet. Most still believe that bullshit. You are likely one of them.


So it's cult or nothing for you


----------



## Lesh

Batcat said:


> Remember how Trump was supposed to have colluded with Putin to defeat Hillary or how Trump was Putin’s puppet?
> 
> Now that was supposition and misstated facts.


You distract from your own bullshit.

Funny


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Batcat said:


> So you want me to ask a sheeple who believed for four years that Trump colluded with Putin to defeat Hillary and Trump was Putin’s puppet. Most still believe that bullshit. You are likely one of them.


Your embarrassing, pathetic whataboutism and exaggeration will not help you. It makes you look even worse. 

As if you are trying to blame your own embarrassing  gullibility and dishonesty on others. 

Grow up.


----------



## para bellum

Lesh said:


> It's supposition and misstated facts


I prefer to refer to the source material rather than people on Internet forums.

It's lengthy and limited in scope, but it makes the case that there were serious breaches and a full investigation is warranted. 

It will be up to the legislature, they're the ones that have to face their constituents.



			https://www.wisconsinrightnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/osc-second-interim-report-1.pdf


----------



## Lastamender

Lesh said:


> Also not true.
> 
> Page had been investigated for his dealings with Russians back in 2013-2014


While he was with the CIA?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

para bellum said:


> I prefer to refer to the source material rather than people on Internet forums.
> 
> It's lengthy and limited in scope, but it makes the case that there were serious breaches and a full investigation is warranted.
> 
> It will be up to the legislature, they're the ones that have to face their constituents.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.wisconsinrightnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/osc-second-interim-report-1.pdf


Oh look, not one fake vote.

Shocking!


----------



## Lesh

Lastamender said:


> While he was with the CIA?


He was ever "with" the CIA


----------



## Lastamender

Lesh said:


> He was ever "with" the CIA


Yes he was. If you were informed you would know that. Same old.


----------



## para bellum

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Oh look, not one fake vote.
> 
> Shocking!


It didn't shock me since it wasn't an audit. It was just looking at how the election was conducted, if it was done in accordance with Wisconsin law or not. The issues he brings up did not take place Statewide.


----------



## Lastamender

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Oh look, not one fake vote.
> 
> Shocking!


92.000 votes are as good as fake when they are not verifiable because the law was ignored. You lose. They did not have time to change this law and totally ignored it. FACT.


----------



## bripat9643

Lesh said:


> Dude...it's been debunked.
> 
> They don't just say "bullshit"...they show why


No they don't.  They just insert their fingers in their ears and shout "no evidence! no evidence! no evidence!"


----------



## bripat9643

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> It wasn't a plea. Dude, your mommy doesn't work here. Go read up before commenting again.


How was it perjury?


----------



## Batcat

bripat9643 said:


> No they don't.  They just insert their fingers in their ears and shout "no evidence! no evidence! no evidence!"


Exactly. They also claim a report of election malfeasance is debunked as soon as it comes out but obviously there was no time to debunk the report.


----------



## Batcat

Lesh said:


> You distract from your own bullshit.
> 
> Funny


Nope. Just pointing out how the sheeple don’t learn anything after being lied to for four years straight by the liberal media.


----------



## Batcat

para bellum said:


> I ask, What Governor or Secretary of State wants to be the first one to admit their State can't run an honest  election?
> 
> I'm about halfway through Gableman's report in Wisconsin, it's outrageous. I don't see how the legislature can ignore it.


Imagine the outrage if the media actually covered the Gableman Report fairly.


----------



## Batcat

Lesh said:


> So it's cult or nothing for you


I don’t beleive the lying liberal media anymore. Obviously you do. 

This man is probably rolling in his grave.


----------



## Dr Grump

Batcat said:


> One of us will be right.
> 
> I contend that if I am right it would be impossible in today’s contentious environment to state the last election was rigged.
> 
> This would be the result.
> 
> View attachment 612181


I disagree. It would be impossible period. For the election to be rigged the number of people to be involved in the conspiracy would be huge. Massive. Yet not one person has come through saying it was rigged and they were part of it. Not one. Not one person has shown any evidence of it being rigged. Trump-appointed judges have asked for evidence. GOP secretaries of states have verified results. 

Were there the odd irregularity - a dead person voting, somebody voting twice, a felon voting? Sure. But nothing outside the margin of error of EVERY OTHER ELECTION. I've seen issues where two people voted twice and one dead person voted. One of the people who voted twice was a Trump supporter, the other two Dems. 

Hardly conclusive.


----------



## Dr Grump

para bellum said:


> I'm about halfway through Gableman's report in Wisconsin, it's outrageous. I don't see how the legislature can ignore it.



Easily. As one person pointed out:

"This prompted Republican Assembly Majority Leader Jim Steineke to tweet, saying, “handing authority to partisan politicians to determine if election fraud exists would be the end of our republic as we know it.”

Gableman is a partisan hack, hired by another partisan hack, to offer a partisan opinion.


----------



## Colin norris

deannalw said:


> Even if it's true, I can raise no give a fucks.


Its true and you silly repigs still voted for the idiot.


----------



## Batcat

Dr Grump said:


> . disagree. It would be impossible period. For the election to be rigged the number of people to be involved in the conspiracy would be huge. Massive. Yet not one person has come through saying it was rigged and they were part of it. Not one. Not one person has shown any evidence of it being rigged. Trump-appointed judges have asked for evidence. GOP secretaries of states have verified results.
> 
> Were there the odd irregularity - a dead person voting, somebody voting twice, a felon voting? Sure. But nothing outside the margin of error of EVERY OTHER ELECTION. I've seen issues where two people voted twice and one dead person voted. One of the people who voted twice was a Trump supporter, the other two Dems.
> 
> Hardly conclusive.


I remember the JFK/Nixon election In 1960.  Yes. I am that old. I was too young to vote but I would have voted for JFK if I could have. 









						Voter Fraud Is Nothing New: The 1960 Election of JFK - Helleniscope
					

EDITOR’S NOTE (Nick Stamatakis): Tons of articles and many books have been written on the famous 1960 election whereby JFK won by 113,000 votes out of 68 million ballots cast. The majority of the questions raised had to do with the Chicago Mafia and especially the corrupt Mayor Richard Daly...



					www.helleniscope.com
				




***snip***

_The GOP’s failure to prove fraud doesn’t mean, of course, that the election was clean. That question remains unsolved and unsolvable. But what’s typically left out of the legend is that multiple election boards saw no reason to overturn the results. Neither did state or federal judges. Neither did an Illinois special prosecutor in 1961. And neither have academic inquiries into the Illinois case (both a 1961 study by three University of Chicago professors and more recent research by political scientist Edmund Kallina concluded that whatever fraud existed wasn’t substantial enough to alter the election).

On the other hand, some fraud clearly occurred in Cook County. At least three people were sent to jail for election-related crimes, and 677 others were indicted before being acquitted by Judge John M. Karns, a Daley crony. Many of the allegations involved practices that wouldn’t be detected by a recount, leading the conservative Chicago Tribune, among others, to conclude that “once an election has been stolen in Cook County, it stays stolen.” What’s more, according to journalist Seymour Hersh, a former Justice Department prosecutor who heard tapes of FBI wiretaps from the period believed that Illinois was rightfully Nixon’s. Hersh also has written that J. Edgar Hoover believed Nixon actually won the presidency but in deciding to follow normal procedures and refer the FBI’s findings to the attorney general—as of Jan. 20, 1961, Robert F. Kennedy—he effectively buried the case.

Another man, too, believed Nixon was robbed: Nixon. At a 1960 Christmas party, he was heard greeting guests, “We won but they stole it from us.” Nixon nursed the grudge for years, and when he was criticized for his Watergate crimes he would cite the Kennedys’ misdeeds as precedent. He may have felt JFK’s supposed theft entitled him to cheat in 1972. It’s an interesting hypothetical: If no pall had been cast over the 1960 election, would Watergate have happened?_


----------



## Lakhota

After Blasting Him For Big Lie, William Barr Says He Would Vote For Trump In 2024​
So funny.  So hypocritical.  So deranged.


----------



## Chillicothe

Lakhota said:


> _So funny. So hypocritical. So deranged._


You know, Lakhota, I saw that reportage on Barr saying he would still vote for DTrump.
And thought at the time, and still think a day later........"Dumb"!
With a capital 'D'.

If I had been in Barr's shoes, after publishing a book with many critical observations of Trump's suitability to be President......and if asked would I vote for him agailn........I'd simply say: 'Too early to decide. Let's see who the Democrats put up. Let's see the Republicans who throw their hat in the ring.'   Duh!!

Bill Barr made himself.....no one else, he did it.......he made himself look feckless and weak.
Jeeeeez!!!  What a dumb unforced error.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Why not, because he had a "choice?"  Of course he had to accept the deal.  It's either that or spend every dime he has on lawyers.  That's what you call "voluntary."   That's what makes you a fucking NAZI.
> 
> Why do you keep reusing the same old already exploded argument?



You're lying again, fucking moron. He didn't have to spend every dime he had on lawyers.


----------



## Faun

surada said:


> Carter page? Yeah they knew about him before he joined the Trump campaign. All the people around Trump were sleaze bags.



Attending just one meeting and not contributing, Carter Page was never really with the Trump campaign anyway.


----------



## surada

Faun said:


> Carter Page was never really with the Trump campaign anyway.


Yeah. Trump said he didn't know him.


----------



## Faun

Lastamender said:


> Are you crazy? Nothing in the dossier was confirmed.



Aww, poor, deranged FruitLoops...









						Trump-Russia Dossier One Year Later: How True Is It?
					

Some of the document's seemingly wild claims have held up to a year's worth of scrutiny, even as many more parts remain disputed or have no evidence of being true.




					www.newsweek.com


----------



## Faun

surada said:


> Yeah. Trump said he didn't know him.



He didn't.  They never met or spoke with each other.


----------



## Faun

Batcat said:


> The ETA will likely be 75 years to a century from today.
> 
> Let’s say the CIA was behind JFK’s assassination. That info might come out someday after there is no longer a CIA.
> 
> Every once in while sometime interesting pops up that goes against the agends.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American Wire News · America's Political News Service
> 
> 
> American Wire is a daily independent news service dedicated to bringing our readers accurate, reliable news and information from a conservative perspective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.commdiginews.com



Bullshit. 

Milwaukee County had *557,089* registered voters...



			https://elections.wi.gov/sites/elections/files/2020-11/RegisteredVotersByCounty_11-01-2020.xlsx
		


Like I always say, if conservatives didn't lie, they'd have absolutely nothing to say .


----------



## Faun

para bellum said:


> I defend the facts and the rule of law. It's not about Page. It's about weaponizing the FBI for political reasons.
> 
> All of the people in the Crossfire Hurricane team belong behind bars.



And yet, Durham has implicated just one person involved with deception in order to obtain FISA warrants.


----------



## para bellum

Faun said:


> And yet, Durham has implicated just one person involved with deception in order to obtain FISA warrants.


One in the Crossfire Hurricane team. A sacrificial lamb who got off with a slap on the wrist.

There are a lot more people implicated, where Durham calls it quits is anyone's guess.

Also indicted so far, the lawyer from Perkins Coie who peddled lies about Alfa bank, and Danchenko, Steele's primary source for the dossier.

Danchenko was a fellow at Brookings, pals with Podesta and Fiona Hill and some of the other clowns in the Ukraine impeachment scheme.

That Newsweek piece is lame. Yes, Page traveled to Russia. Yes, he met officials from Russian energy companies in 2013 (the meeting was in NY, not Russia, it was during an International Energy Conference)- Page was working as an energy consultant, and oh by the way the part they leave out, he didn't conceal any of it, and he cooperated with the FBI in April and June of 2013 when they asked him about the contacts. He also cooperated with them when they prosecuted one of them, and helped the FBI secure a conviction and a 30-month sentence.

The Trump tower meeting, the other thing they say is confirmed- yes, it took place as we all know, but we have known for some time that the meeting was a setup. The lady lawyer was a client of Fusion GPS. She was hired by one of the Oligarchs that was sanctioned under the Magnitsky Act, and they had enlisted Fusion GPS to lobby in the US for repeal of those sanctions. She left that Trump tower meeting and reported directly to Glen Simpson of Fusion GPS.

The thing you guys act so offended by- the notion that Trump would get dirt from a foreign source on his opponent, is the exact thing that the democrats were actively doing. To the tune of several million dollars paid out in that effort. So pardon me, if I am not moved by your false outrage.


----------



## Faun

para bellum said:


> One in the Crossfire Hurricane team. A sacrificial lamb who got off with a slap on the wrist.
> 
> There are a lot more people implicated, where Durham calls it quits is anyone's guess.
> 
> Also indicted so far, the lawyer from Perkins Coie who peddled lies about Alfa bank, and Danchenko, Steele's primary source for the dossier.
> 
> Danchenko was a fellow at Brookings, pals with Podesta and Fiona Hill and some of the other clowns in the Ukraine impeachment scheme.
> 
> That Newsweek piece is lame. Yes, Page traveled to Russia. Yes, he met officials from Russian energy companies in 2013 (the meeting was in NY, not Russia, it was during an International Energy Conference)- Page was working as an energy consultant, and oh by the way the part they leave out, he didn't conceal any of it, and he cooperated with the FBI in April and June of 2013 when they asked him about the contacts. He also cooperated with them when they prosecuted one of them, and helped the FBI secure a conviction and a 30-month sentence.
> 
> The Trump tower meeting, the other thing they say is confirmed- yes, it took place as we all know, but we have known for some time that the meeting was a setup. The lady lawyer was a client of Fusion GPS. She was hired by one of the Oligarchs that was sanctioned under the Magnitsky Act, and they had enlisted Fusion GPS to lobby in the US for repeal of those sanctions. She left that Trump tower meeting and reported directly to Glen Simpson of Fusion GPS.
> 
> The thing you guys act so offended by- the notion that Trump would get dirt from a foreign source on his opponent, is the exact thing that the democrats were actively doing. To the tune of several million dollars paid out in that effort. So pardon me, if I am not moved by your false outrage.


The other two indictments were not about the FISA warrant. One person was caught in that.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> You're lying again, fucking moron. He didn't have to spend every dime he had on lawyers.


ROFL!  He was already bankrupt when he agreed to the plea, moron.  I trial would have taken even more money.


----------



## para bellum

Faun said:


> The other two indictments were not about the FISA warrant. One person was caught in that.


So far one in Gov't. Like I said, a sacrificial lamb.

That was not the only issue identified by Horowitz, but the DOJ always protects itself. McCabe lied at least 3 times under oath, both to the Congress and also to the Inspector General, and he got off scott-free. He was also responsible for the setup of General Flynn, where they leaked classified information to the Washington Post as a pretense for the White House meeting.

The Dossier was "central and essential" to the FISA warrants, so it's all connected. The FBI was relying on information  they could not verify, but they told the FISA court that it was.

Nevertheless, I do not think any real accountability will be forthcoming. Durham will do his best to portray the FBI as the victims of a disinformation campaign, rather than the willing and active participants that they actually were.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> ROFL!  He was already bankrupt when he agreed to the plea, moron.  I trial would have taken even more money.



LOLOL

Once again, you destroy your own position, ya fucking moron.

All this time you've been claiming Flynn faced pleading guilty or going bankrupt. Now you say he was already bankrupt.


----------



## Lastamender

Faun said:


> Aww, poor, deranged FruitLoops...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump-Russia Dossier One Year Later: How True Is It?
> 
> 
> Some of the document's seemingly wild claims have held up to a year's worth of scrutiny, even as many more parts remain disputed or have no evidence of being true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com


You expect anyone to believe that besides you and other Trump haters? Go away troll.


----------



## Faun

para bellum said:


> So far one in Gov't. Like I said, a sacrificial lamb.
> 
> That was not the only issue identified by Horowitz, but the DOJ always protects itself. McCabe lied at least 3 times under oath, both to the Congress and also to the Inspector General, and he got off scott-free. He was also responsible for the setup of General Flynn, where they leaked classified information to the Washington Post as a pretense for the White House meeting.
> 
> The Dossier was "central and essential" to the FISA warrants, so it's all connected. The FBI was relying on information  they could not verify, but they told the FISA court that it was.
> 
> Nevertheless, I do not think any real accountability will be forthcoming. Durham will do his best to portray the FBI as the victims of a disinformation campaign, rather than the willing and active participants that they actually were.



Great, so until more people are indicted, if that even happens, you still have only one in relation to the FISA warrants. Yet here you are, saying everyone on the Crossfire Hurricane team should all go to prison.


----------



## Faun

Lastamender said:


> You expect anyone to believe that besides you and other Trump haters? Go away troll.



LOL

As if I care what you believe, FruitLoops. Need I remind you? You still believe the election was stolen despite the fact that after 16 months (and counting), you still can't prove it. You're fucking deranged.


----------



## Lastamender

Faun said:


> Great, so until more people are indicted, if that even happens, you still have only one in relation to the FISA warrants. Yet here you are, saying everyone on the Crossfire Hurricane team should all go to prison.


If they pulled the same crap with Obama that is exactly where they would be. You cannot break the law just because it is Trump. Democrats have been lawless since he was elected. Twice.


----------



## 22lcidw

Faun said:


> Great, so until more people are indicted, if that even happens, you still have only one in relation to the FISA warrants. Yet here you are, saying everyone on the Crossfire Hurricane team should all go to prison.


Your war is how far left Progs should go. Our war is if the Repub party would keep its promises. Because of their lack of keeping them, we have moved left at warp speed.


----------



## Lastamender

Faun said:


> LOL
> 
> As if I care what you believe, FruitLoops. Need I remind you? You still believe the election was stolen despite the fact that after 16 months (and counting), you still can't prove it. You're fucking deranged.


You keep saying that and will not accept the evidence that has been found that proves the election had no integrity whatsoever. Come back when you have a real answer, you fucking pest.


----------



## Faun

Lastamender said:


> If they pulled the same crap with Obama that is exactly where they would be. You cannot break the law just because it is Trump. Democrats have been lawless since he was elected. Twice.



I never said anyone should be allowed to break the law. Anyone who did, should be held accountable. Still, this has been under investigation for years by two different people. And to date, only one person was indicted in regards to the FISA warrant. You can't escape that reality no matter how brain-dead you are.


----------



## Faun

Lastamender said:


> You keep saying that and will not accept the evidence that has been found that proves the election had no integrity whatsoever. Come back when you have a real answer, you fucking pest.



LOL

You have none, FruitLoops. If you did, this would have been settled long ago.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> LOLOL
> 
> Once again, you destroy your own position, ya fucking moron.
> 
> All this time you've been claiming Flynn faced pleading guilty or going bankrupt. Now you say he was already bankrupt.


The phases up to the plea forced him to spend every dime he had.  He even had to mortgage his house.  Pleading innocent would have cost him at least as much money.  

Excuse me if I didn't use exactly the precise terms you insist on.  However, that doesn't make your position credible.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> The phases up to the plea forced him to spend every dime he had.  He even had to mortgage his house.  Pleading innocent would have cost him at least as much money.
> 
> Excuse me if I didn't use exactly the precise terms you insist on.  However, that doesn't make your position credible.



Post links proving that, fucking moron...


----------



## Lastamender

Faun said:


> I never said anyone should be allowed to break the law. Anyone who did, should be held accountable. Still, this has been under investigation for years by two different people. And to date, only one person was indicted in regards to the FISA warrant. You can't escape that reality no matter how brain-dead you are.


The IG did that when it all started falling apart. Come back when you know what you are talking about it.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Post links proving that, fucking moron...


It's a widely reported fact that Flynn had to mortgage his house to pay his legal bills.


----------



## LaDairis

BARR = Jew
Chris Wray = Jew
Gorsuch = Jew
Kavanaugh = Jew
Coney Barrett = Jew
Rupert Murdoch = Jew
Brad Raffensberger = Jew


What have Jews done to the GOP and America.....

and how could any non-invalid American want more....???


----------



## Lastamender

Faun said:


> LOL
> 
> You have none, FruitLoops. If you did, this would have been settled long ago.


WI. and AZ. both have hard evidence that proves 0 integrity. Why do you think there are calls for decertification? You do not do that without the evidence to back it up. You, especially you, and your lie have failed and will continue to fail.


----------



## Faun

Lastamender said:


> The IG did that when it all started falling apart. Come back when you know what you are talking about it.



I do know. That's why I know only one person has been indicted in regards to the FISA warrants.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> It's a widely reported fact that Flynn had to mortgage his house to pay his legal bills.



^^^ That's not a link, fucking moron.


----------



## LaDairis

Faun said:


> ^^^ That's not a link, fucking moron.




The Mossad is still very worried the election fraud will be busted....


----------



## Lastamender

Faun said:


> I do know. That's why I know only one person has been indicted in regards to the FISA warrants.


There will be more. A punk lawyer who has already been reinstated by the Bar is nothing. It does highlight the dual justice system. Your leaders are a fucking joke.


----------



## Faun

LaDairis said:


> The Mossad is still very worried the election fraud will be busted....



What's taking so long?


----------



## Faun

Lastamender said:


> There will be more. A punk lawyer who has already been reinstated by the Bar is nothing. It does highlight the dual justice system. Your leaders are a fucking joke.



LOLOL

So you say, but you're deranged. Your mental instability aside, maybe there will, maybe there won't -- still ... there's been only one person indicted on charges related to the FISA warrants.


----------



## LaDairis

Faun said:


> What's taking so long?




Trump appointed all of them.

Ask him.

Every judge he appointed, every AG, every FBI, everyone.... Trump could not stop appointing all Zionist Fascists to all positions from which to backstab Trump in 2020, which is what happened.

Donald Trump does not understand Judaism.  Not at all...

"Judaism is not a religion, it is a conspiracy against all other humans"

Care to cite the source of that one....


----------



## Faun

LaDairis said:


> Trump appointed all of them.
> 
> Ask him.
> 
> Every judge he appointed, every AG, every FBI, everyone.... Trump could not stop appointing all Zionist Fascists to all positions from which to backstab Trump in 2020, which is what happened.
> 
> Donald Trump does not understand Judaism.  Not at all...
> 
> "Judaism is not a religion, it is a conspiracy against all other humans"
> 
> Care to cite the source of that one....



So it's Trump's fault, huh?


----------



## LaDairis

Faun said:


> So it's Trump's fault, huh?




You must not be following me as closely.

I've started two topics on this.  Donald Trump needs to explain why he so badly fucked up his appointments, and why we should believe he won't fuck them up next time....

W would've picked Sessions and Wray.  Americans and Republicans deserve better....


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> ^^^ That's not a link, fucking moron.


As I said, it has been widely reported.


----------



## Lastamender

LaDairis said:


> You must not be following me as closely.
> 
> I've started two topics on this.  Donald Trump needs to explain why he so badly fucked up his appointments, and why we should believe he won't fuck them up next time....
> 
> W would've picked Sessions and Wray.  Americans and Republicans deserve better....


That moron could not keep track of his own shadow.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> As I said, it has been widely reported.



How could something that never happened be widely reported, fucking moron?


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> How could something that never happened be widely reported, fucking moron?


You answered your own question.


----------



## Batcat

Faun said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> Milwaukee County had *557,089* registered voters...
> 
> 
> 
> https://elections.wi.gov/sites/elections/files/2020-11/RegisteredVotersByCounty_11-01-2020.xlsx
> 
> 
> 
> Like I always say, if conservatives didn't lie, they'd have absolutely nothing to say .


There is more to the report.









						Wisconsin special counsel bombshell: 91 nursing homes had 95-100% voter turnout in 2020
					

Election integrity watchdog Phill Kline said: "And now we have videotaped depositions and interviews with their family members saying, 'My loved one hasn't been able to vote for years and has been deemed to be incompetent.'"




					justthenews.com


----------



## LaDairis

Lastamender said:


> That moron could not keep track of his own shadow.




In NYC, any criticism of Jews is met with ferocious attacks and card tosses and worse.  Mikey Bloomberg would have the cops plant drugs in your car.

Trump always fell for the Iran bashing too.

But he knew 911 and Global Warming were frauds.  Apparently, Donald bought one of the real sub human explanations

THE GOVERNMENT did it
Military industrial complex
Big Oil

Bullshit

All of the "conspiracy theory" frauds on America have been done by Fascist Zionists, the ones Einstein warned us about....


*Einstein Letter Warning Of
Zionist Fascism In Israel
Letter That Albert Einstein Sent to the New York Times
1948, Protesting the Visit of Menachem Begin*
11-1-4 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Letters to the EditorNew York TimesDecember 4, 1948 TO THE EDITORS OF THE NEW YORK TIMES: Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine. 

The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughoutthe world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin's political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents. Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in Begin's behalf, and the creation in Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports Fascist elements in Israel, the American public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement. The public avowals of Begin's party are no guide whatever to its actual character. Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future. *Attack on Arab Village* A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants ? 240men, women, and children - and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin. The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party. Within the Jewish community they have preached an admixture of ultranationalism, religious mysticism, and racial superiority. Like other Fascist parties they have been used to break strikes, and have themselves pressed for the destruction of free trade unions. In their stead they have proposed corporate unions on the Italian Fascist model. During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide-spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute. The people of the Freedom Party have had no part in the constructive achievements in Palestine. They have reclaimed no land, built no settlements, and only detracted from the Jewish defense activity. Their much-publicized immigration endeavors were minute, and devoted mainly to bringing in Fascist compatriots. *Discrepancies Seen* The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party, and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a "Leader State" is the goal. In the light of the foregoing considerations, it is imperative that the truth about Mr. Begin and his movement be made known in this country. It is all the more tragic that the top leadership of American Zionism has refused to campaign against Begin's efforts, or even to expose to its own constituents the dangers to Israel from support to Begin. The undersigned therefore take this means of publicly presenting a few salient facts concerning Begin and his party; and of urging all concerned not to support this latest manifestation of fascism. ISIDORE ABRAMOWITZHANNAH ARENDTABRAHAM BRICKRABBI JESSURUN CARDOZOALBERT EINSTEINHERMAN EISEN, M.D.HAYIM FINEMANM. GALLEN, M.D.H.H. HARRISZELIG S. HARRISSIDNEY HOOKFRED KARUSHBRURIA KAUFMANIRMA L. LINDHEIMNACHMAN MAISELSEYMOUR MELMANMYER D. MENDELSONM.D., HARRY M. OSLINSKYSAMUEL PITLICKFRITZ ROHRLICHLOUIS P. ROCKERRUTH SAGISITZHAK SANKOWSKYI.J. SHOENBERGSAMUEL SHUMANM. SINGERIRMA WOLFESTEFAN WOLF. New York, Dec. 2, 1948


----------



## LaDairis

Batcat said:


> There is more to the report.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wisconsin special counsel bombshell: 91 nursing homes had 95-100% voter turnout in 2020
> 
> 
> Election integrity watchdog Phill Kline said: "And now we have videotaped depositions and interviews with their family members saying, 'My loved one hasn't been able to vote for years and has been deemed to be incompetent.'"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> justthenews.com




The only thing that did the election fraud, enabled the election fraud, and covered up the election fraud is

ZIONIST FASCISTS

The whole 911 crowd

W
Cheney
Romney
Biden
Bloomberg
Raffensberger
Murkowski
Fox News


----------



## Faun

Batcat said:


> There is more to the report.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wisconsin special counsel bombshell: 91 nursing homes had 95-100% voter turnout in 2020
> 
> 
> Election integrity watchdog Phill Kline said: "And now we have videotaped depositions and interviews with their family members saying, 'My loved one hasn't been able to vote for years and has been deemed to be incompetent.'"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> justthenews.com



Why should anyone expect that isn't just more bullshit you're posting given I busted you posting bullshit? So you just switch from one bullshit story to another when caught?


----------



## Batcat

Faun said:


> Why should anyone expect that isn't just more bullshit you're posting given I busted you posting bullshit? So you just switch from one bullshit story to another when caught?


Just because you say something is bullshit doesn’t prove it is. One of the odd things I find abut any report of election fraud is how is it labeled false IMMEDIATELY.  Damn near impossible to debunk a report that fast. 

Now the report may be false but I predict that if it is true beyond any doubt the liberal media will still say the report was debunked and ignore it. 

The sheeple can’t be allowed to suspect there may be election malfeasance in our nation or it will be extremely difficult to rig any future elections. 

If the Dems can’t rig elections they will go extinct. 

Here’s an article dated TODAY. 









						Wisconsin Special Counsel Finds ‘Widespread Election Fraud’ In 2020 Nursing Homes – [your]NEWS
					

Special Counsel Michael Gableman vetted more than 90 nursing homes in five different counties and concluded there was ‘widespread election fraud.’




					yournews.com
				




***snip***

_Margot Cleveland, a graduate of Notre Dame Law, a former law clerk for a federal appellate judge and a senior contributor to The Federalist, pointed out that’s exactly what the Wisconsin Office of Special Counsel concluded was involved in that state’s 2020 presidential election results from nursing homes.

She reported, “Special Counsel Michael Gableman, the retired state Supreme Court justice appointed by the Wisconsin Assembly to investigate integrity concerns about the 2020 election, vetted more than 90 nursing homes in five different counties before concluding there was ‘widespread election fraud at Wisconsin nursing homes in November of 2020.’”

She explained, “According to the report, nursing home staff and administrators illegally handled absentee ballots, illegally assisted with ‘marking’ residents’ ballots, illegally ‘witnessed’ the voting, and possibly included forgery of the elderly residents’ signatures. Under Wisconsin law, these violations of the election code constitute fraud.”
She noted that just one of the key findings in the OSC report that was given to the Wisconsin Assembly found, “Rampant fraud and abuse occurred statewide at Wisconsin’s nursing homes and other residential care facilities.”

Gableman’s conclusions mirrored those reached by the Racine County sheriff’s office earlier, an investigation that resulted in Sheriff Christopher Schmaling recommending election fraud charges be filed against five members of the Wisconsin Election Commission.

***snip***


Gableman’s report also recommended:


Eliminating the Wisconsin Election Commission, which, in fact, had delivered to elections officials improper instructions for the election.
Maintain a single statewide voter registration database and making it available and secure.
Establishing oversight procedures for elections.
Establishing a process for challenging results.
Minimizing “pre-voting,” because that denies citizens their right to observe the process.
Allowing the creation of “alternative slates of electors” for challenged races.
Providing ways to challenge those certifications.
Banning “outside funding” in elections.
What is known about the 2020 election is that study of Zuckerberg’s money concluded the results essentially were bought for Biden. Also, various state and local elections officials simply canceled their own state laws regarding mail-in ballots to accommodate COVID, actions that were not legally allowed. Third, legacy and social media all worked to conceal accurate – and damaging – reporting about the Biden family overseas business schemes just before the election. A Media Research Center study revealed had those reports been more widely published, enough voters would have turned away from Biden to cost him the election._


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Why should anyone expect that isn't just more bullshit you're posting given I busted you posting bullshit? So you just switch from one bullshit story to another when caught?


Lying about what someone posted isn't "busting" them.


----------



## Faun

Batcat said:


> Just because you say something is bullshit doesn’t prove it is. One of the odd things I find abut any report of election fraud is how is it labeled false IMMEDIATELY.  Damn near impossible to debunk a report that fast.
> 
> Now the report may be false but I predict that if it is true beyond any doubt the liberal media will still say the report was debunked and ignore it.
> 
> The sheeple can’t be allowed to suspect there may be election malfeasance in our nation or it will be extremely difficult to rig any future elections.
> 
> If the Dems can’t rig elections they will go extinct.
> 
> Here’s an article dated TODAY.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wisconsin Special Counsel Finds ‘Widespread Election Fraud’ In 2020 Nursing Homes – [your]NEWS
> 
> 
> Special Counsel Michael Gableman vetted more than 90 nursing homes in five different counties and concluded there was ‘widespread election fraud.’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yournews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ***snip***
> 
> _Margot Cleveland, a graduate of Notre Dame Law, a former law clerk for a federal appellate judge and a senior contributor to The Federalist, pointed out that’s exactly what the Wisconsin Office of Special Counsel concluded was involved in that state’s 2020 presidential election results from nursing homes.
> 
> She reported, “Special Counsel Michael Gableman, the retired state Supreme Court justice appointed by the Wisconsin Assembly to investigate integrity concerns about the 2020 election, vetted more than 90 nursing homes in five different counties before concluding there was ‘widespread election fraud at Wisconsin nursing homes in November of 2020.’”
> 
> She explained, “According to the report, nursing home staff and administrators illegally handled absentee ballots, illegally assisted with ‘marking’ residents’ ballots, illegally ‘witnessed’ the voting, and possibly included forgery of the elderly residents’ signatures. Under Wisconsin law, these violations of the election code constitute fraud.”
> She noted that just one of the key findings in the OSC report that was given to the Wisconsin Assembly found, “Rampant fraud and abuse occurred statewide at Wisconsin’s nursing homes and other residential care facilities.”
> 
> Gableman’s conclusions mirrored those reached by the Racine County sheriff’s office earlier, an investigation that resulted in Sheriff Christopher Schmaling recommending election fraud charges be filed against five members of the Wisconsin Election Commission.
> 
> ***snip***
> 
> 
> Gableman’s report also recommended:
> 
> 
> Eliminating the Wisconsin Election Commission, which, in fact, had delivered to elections officials improper instructions for the election.
> Maintain a single statewide voter registration database and making it available and secure.
> Establishing oversight procedures for elections.
> Establishing a process for challenging results.
> Minimizing “pre-voting,” because that denies citizens their right to observe the process.
> Allowing the creation of “alternative slates of electors” for challenged races.
> Providing ways to challenge those certifications.
> Banning “outside funding” in elections.
> What is known about the 2020 election is that study of Zuckerberg’s money concluded the results essentially were bought for Biden. Also, various state and local elections officials simply canceled their own state laws regarding mail-in ballots to accommodate COVID, actions that were not legally allowed. Third, legacy and social media all worked to conceal accurate – and damaging – reporting about the Biden family overseas business schemes just before the election. A Media Research Center study revealed had those reports been more widely published, enough voters would have turned away from Biden to cost him the election._



Imbecile, I proved you posted bullshit. Denying I did that only serves to demonstrate how fucked in the head you are. 

You posted a meme claiming there were more votes than registered voters in Milwaukee County, falsely claiming there are only 309,868 registered voters there. I busted that bullshit meme with a link to Wisconsin's official website proving the actual number was 557,089, more than the votes cast.

You're so brain-dead, you can't even tell when you're bitch-slapped.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Lying about what someone posted isn't "busting" them.



LOL

Poor, demented fucking moron. I told no lie.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> LOL
> 
> Poor, demented fucking moron. I told no lie.


You always lie, prog moron.


----------



## Batcat

Faun said:


> Imbecile, I proved you posted bullshit. Denying I did that only serves to demonstrate how fucked in the head you are.
> 
> You posted a meme claiming there were more votes than registered voters in Milwaukee County, falsely claiming there are only 309,868 registered voters there. I busted that bullshit meme with a link to Wisconsin's official website proving the actual number was 557,089, more than the votes cast.
> 
> You're so brain-dead, you can't even tell when you're bitch-slapped.


Why don’t you provide a link to back up your assertions?

Here, I will help you out.









						Fact check: Milwaukee wards did not have more votes for president than registered voters
					

The numbers cited are completely wrong. The seven Milwaukee wards listed in an article online had more registered voters than ballots cast.



					www.usatoday.com
				




I attempted to find info backing up my claims but oddly when I would try a link I got this message. …

_“Safari cannot open the page as it could not connect to the server”_

I tried half a dozen and got the same message. I never have had that happen before. I was able to access other sites with no problem.

So since I can’t find any *recent* information that proves there were more votes than registered voters, I will have to agree that you win this debate.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> You always lie, prog moron.



Quote the lie, fucking moron.


----------



## Faun

Batcat said:


> Why don’t you provide a link to back up your assertions?
> 
> Here, I will help you out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fact check: Milwaukee wards did not have more votes for president than registered voters
> 
> 
> The numbers cited are completely wrong. The seven Milwaukee wards listed in an article online had more registered voters than ballots cast.
> 
> 
> 
> www.usatoday.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I attempted to find info backing up my claims but oddly when I would try a link I got this message. …
> 
> _“Safari cannot open the page as it could not connect to the server”_
> 
> I tried half a dozen and got the same message. I never have had that happen before. I was able to access other sites with no problem.
> 
> So since I can’t find any *recent* information that proves there were more votes than registered voters, I will have to agree that you win this debate.



You dumbfuck, I posted a link to the Wisconsin official elections website. Have you always been this desperate and stupid?


----------



## para bellum

Batcat said:


> So since I can’t find any *recent* information that proves there were more votes than registered voters, I will have to agree that you win this debate.


Same-day States always have a bunch of registrations that don't get reflected on the County election websites right away.

The city of Milwaukee had 315K registered voters and 247K voted. They lost almost 13K registered voters between 2016 and 2020, but the total votes in 2020 was only 141 votes less. Biden outperformed Hillary by 6K, but 2016 had a spoiler liberal that stole 6K from Hillary.

2016 and 2020 in the city of Milwaukee look almost identical.





__





						November 8
					






					city.milwaukee.gov
				








__





						November 3
					






					city.milwaukee.gov


----------



## Batcat

Faun said:


> You dumbfuck, I posted a link to the Wisconsin official elections website. Have you always been this desperate and stupid?


I  missed that post. 

I hope my admitting you won this debate helps your inferiority complex.


----------



## Batcat

para bellum said:


> Same-day States always have a bunch of registrations that don't get reflected on the County election websites right away.
> 
> The city of Milwaukee had 315K registered voters and 247K voted. They lost almost 13K registered voters between 2016 and 2020, but the total votes in 2020 was only 141 votes less. Biden outperformed Hillary by 6K, but 2016 had a spoiler liberal that stole 6K from Hillary.
> 
> 2016 and 2020 in the city of Milwaukee look almost identical.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> November 8
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> city.milwaukee.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> November 3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> city.milwaukee.gov


Same day registrations make me suspicious. 





__





						The Problem with Same Day Voter Registration | American Majority
					

Every few years it seems the Democrats find a new way to "improve" the voting system without allowing any changes to actually protect the system. These ideas usually center around "fairness" and minorities. As noted previously, Democrats will stop at nothing to protect their base, leaving quite...




					www.americanmajority.org


----------



## Faun

Batcat said:


> I  missed that post.
> 
> I hope my admitting you won this debate helps your inferiority complex.



LOL

As if your concession was needed. You lost the moment you posted that bullshit meme.


----------



## Batcat

Faun said:


> LOL
> 
> As if your concession was needed. You lost the moment you posted that bullshit meme.


So a question for you. Did you believe that Trump colluded with Putin to defeat Hillary?


----------



## Faun

Batcat said:


> So a question for you. Did you believe that Trump colluded with Putin to defeat Hillary?



No.


----------



## Batcat

Faun said:


> No.


Neither did I. Trump couldn’t even collude with the Republicans to beat Hillary. The Republican establishment hates Trump with a passion.


----------



## Mac1958

Chillicothe said:


> You know, Lakhota, I saw that reportage on Barr saying he would still vote for DTrump.
> And thought at the time, and still think a day later........"Dumb"!
> With a capital 'D'.
> 
> If I had been in Barr's shoes, after publishing a book with many critical observations of Trump's suitability to be President......and if asked would I vote for him agailn........I'd simply say: 'Too early to decide. Let's see who the Democrats put up. Let's see the Republicans who throw their hat in the ring.'   Duh!!
> 
> Bill Barr made himself.....no one else, he did it.......he made himself look feckless and weak.
> Jeeeeez!!!  What a dumb unforced error.


Barr admits this, and still says he'll vote for the guy.

This is just otherworldly.


----------



## Mac1958

Faun said:


> Quote the lie, fucking moron.


I admire your effort, but they exist in a different universe.  They will only believe what they are told IN that universe.

There is just nothing you can do, or say, or demonstrate, or illustrate.  If they don't like it, it's a "lie".  I get it all the time.

All you can do is observe and consider it a cautionary tale.  This ain't good.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Quote the lie, fucking moron.


_"Of course it was voluntary. He didn't have to accept the deal."_


----------



## bripat9643

Mac1958 said:


> I admire your effort, but they exist in a different universe.  They will only believe what they are told IN that universe.
> 
> There is just nothing you can do, or say, or demonstrate, or illustrate.  If they don't like it, it's a "lie".  I get it all the time.
> 
> All you can do is observe and consider it a cautionary tale.  This ain't good.


You admire a douchebag.  That's because you're a douchebag.

Birds of a feather .  .  .  .


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> _"Of course it was voluntary. He didn't have to accept the deal."_



Aside from the reality that Flynn didn't have to accept the deal, you claimed I lied to Batcat. So how come you can't quote the lie, fucking moron?


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Aside from the reality that Flynn didn't have to accept the deal, you claimed I lied to Batcat. So how come you can't quote the lie, fucking moron?


That's not a reality.  It's a lie.  your last post is another lie.


----------



## Circe

My Barr book came last night ---- I'll probably start reading it today. Should be pretty lively.


----------



## bripat9643

Circe said:


> My Barr book came last night ---- I'll probably start reading it today. Should be pretty lively.


Why are you giving money to people who troll Trump to make money?


----------



## Circe

bripat9643 said:


> Why are you giving money to people who troll Trump to make money?


I never do that. I did buy Attorney General William Barr's book. I get to do things like that. We call it "freedom" and the Left hates it.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> That's not a reality.  It's a lie.  your last post is another lie.



Nope, he had a choice, fucking moron. And I note, I'm still waiting for you to oist the lie you claim I told Batcat. Odd how you can't quote it, isn't it?


----------



## para bellum

Batcat said:


> Same day registrations make me suspicious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Problem with Same Day Voter Registration | American Majority
> 
> 
> Every few years it seems the Democrats find a new way to "improve" the voting system without allowing any changes to actually protect the system. These ideas usually center around "fairness" and minorities. As noted previously, Democrats will stop at nothing to protect their base, leaving quite...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.americanmajority.org


Democrat activists running elections from hotel rooms over hidden wi-fi networks makes me suspicious.

Obama got 69 million votes in 2008 and won 875 counties, Biden got 81 million but only won 527 counties? And a significant number of those counties lost population in the intervening years as reflected by the loss of electoral votes in the rust belt States.

That is an amazing performance. Maybe Obama's popularity was really because Biden was on the ticket? He left Obama in the dust, and didn't even have to campaign. The most popular politician in our history, defied every bit of common wisdom about our elections.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Nope, he had a choice, fucking moron. And I note, I'm still waiting for you to oist the lie you claim I told Batcat. Odd how you can't quote it, isn't it?


He had the kind of choice that a mugger gives you.  What you're telling us is that handing over all your money to a mugger is voluntary.  No one in this forum is stupid enough to swallow that logic.  A real choice includes the option of telling you to fuck off.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> He had the kind of choice that a mugger gives you.  What you're telling us is that handing over all your money to a mugger is voluntary.  No one in this forum is stupid enough to swallow that logic.  A real choice includes the option of telling you to fuck off.



You're lying again, fucking moron. 

No, he did not have a choice like someone being mugged. A person being mugged is a victim. Flynn was not a victim but put himself into his situation by lying to the FBI. Also, he did not have to go broke. He chose what kind of legal representation he wanted. All choices he got to make. But even worse for you, you claim going to prison is worse than going broke, which is absurd to begin with.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> You're lying again, fucking moron.
> 
> No, he did not have a choice like someone being mugged. A person being mugged is a victim. Flynn was not a victim but put himself into his situation by lying to the FBI. Also, he did not have to go broke. He chose what kind of legal representation he wanted. All choices he got to make. But even worse for you, you claim going to prison is worse than going broke, which is absurd to begin with.


ROFL!  Flynn is a victim, moron.  He had a choice imposed on him bya perp.  Comey and Strzok put him into the position of being indicted.

Quit lying.  We know what "voluntary" means, and your use of the term doesn't fit.  The one thing Flynn didn't choose is to be indicted by a scumbag deepstate prosecutor.

Everything in your post is a lie.  No one forced you to lie.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> ROFL!  Flynn is a victim, moron.  He had a choice imposed on him bya perp.  Comey and Strzok put him into the position of being indicted.
> 
> Quit lying.  We know what "voluntary" means, and your use of the term doesn't fit.  The one thing Flynn didn't choose is to be indicted by a scumbag deepstate prosecutor.
> 
> Everything in your post is a lie.  No one forced you to lie.



LOLOL 

To the brain dead, people who commit crimes are victims.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> LOLOL
> 
> To the brain dead, people who commit crimes are victims.


He didn't commit any crime, asshole.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> He didn't commit any crime, asshole.



LOL

You're beyond nuts, fucking moron. Flynn was a convicted felon.


----------



## Chillicothe

para bellum said:


> _Maybe Obama's popularity was really because Biden was on the ticket? ...... The most popular politician in our history, defied every bit of common wisdom about our elections._


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as Obama's popularity in carrying his elections.....well, I think the current wisdom by folks knowledgeable and respected in the business of elective-politics is that Obama was very very popular. And continues to be today. One of he most admired men in the world.  

Joe Biden helped Obama's first election in that it reassured the political and leadership strata of America that at least Barack would have an experienced guy as part of his team.

And then the comment about '_defying common wisdom_"........Nah!  I don't think so.

There were many astute observers observing well before the 2020 election who raised questions about Trump's popularity, or lack thereof.  The "popularity" issue was raised more about DTrump than Biden.

And a validator of that is what _DTrump's own_ hired pollster, *Tony Fabrizio,* discovered after surveying voters immediately after the November 2020 election.

Fabrizio's polling indicated people didn't vote for DTrump because of two primary reasons:  First, he was untrustworthy. Second, they felt he was incompetent.

Go ahead google it. You can real all of Fabrizio's 27-page report. I think Politico published it early in 2021. January? February?   








						Trump pollster's campaign autopsy paints damning picture of defeat
					

The 27-page report pins Trump's loss on voter perception that he was untrustworthy and disapproval of his pandemic performance.




					www.politico.com
				




Read it. You will learn that Joe didn't need to cheat.
Joe only needed to not to get in the way of voter's plummeting impression of DTrump.

That's not my conclusion. Read Fabrizio's 27-page report.  You will see that that 2020 Presidential election was less about supporting Joe Biden, and more about firing DTrump.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> LOL
> 
> You're beyond nuts, fucking moron. Flynn was a convicted felon.


Not when he submitted his plea, you douchebag psycho.  He's still not convicted.

We've already established that you can't be honest about whether Flynn's plea was voluntary. All you can do is lie.

We're done.


----------



## Batcat

para bellum said:


> Democrat activists running elections from hotel rooms over hidden wi-fi networks makes me suspicious.
> 
> Obama got 69 million votes in 2008 and won 875 counties, Biden got 81 million but only won 527 counties? And a significant number of those counties lost population in the intervening years as reflected by the loss of electoral votes in the rust belt States.
> 
> That is an amazing performance. Maybe Obama's popularity was really because Biden was on the ticket? He left Obama in the dust, and didn't even have to campaign. The most popular politician in our history, defied every bit of common wisdom about our elections.


PlusJoe is the only politician I know who has had entire stadiums full of people chat, “F**k Joe Biden.”  Amazing how such a popular politician could manage to get so much disrespect so shortly after he was elected. Makes me wonder if Joe actually did win fair and square.


----------



## para bellum

I just don't find it credible. I can believe the intensity of the dislike for Trump among democrats may have been greater in 2020, but no one has convinced be there are more of them. I know democrats who voted for Trump in 2020, they voted for Hillary in 2016.

In 2008, Obama drew large crowds everywhere he went, I _knew_ he was popular- I could see it.

At least post-civil war, no incumbent president has gained votes in his re-election bid and lost the election. Obama had 5 million fewer votes in 2012 than 2008, but he still won re-election.

Not only did Trump gain votes in 2020, he matched Ronald Reagan's 1984 landslide, when Reagan won every State but one. And Republicans swept the down ballot toss-up races in 2020, so there's your polling...

Yet Biden was able to get almost 20% more votes than Obama in 2008 with 40% fewer counties?

Trump won 18 of 19 Bellweather counties, and the Bellweather States of Ohio and Florida. Ohio is a benchmark, in that Wisconsin and Pennsylvania tend to track with Ohio. Where Ohio goes, they all go. And they were doing just that, right up until the giant middle of the night ballot drops.

If the dislike for Trump is the reason for the record turnout in places like Milwaukee, why didn't we see the same thing in Cleveland? Those cities are geographically and demographically similar, but turnout in Cleveland was down from 2008 and 2016.

From the second world war until Nixon, Americans voted for Washington D.C. insiders for President. After Watergate, that changed. We turned to Governors, and with the exception of Bush 41 (who campaigned as a 3rd term of Reagan), every President after 1972 was a Governor, through Bush 43.

Americans were sick of the partisanship and bickering in 2008. Obama campaigned as an outsider, not just from DC but from politics. He didn't really have a voting record, he was a nobody state rep, who spent a couple years in the Senate avoiding controversial votes. He promised to unite the country, it wasn't about red states and blue states, etc.

America went with the outsider. In 2016, Trump's election was a continuation of that move away from traditional politicians in the White House.

Presidential elections are always popularity contests, and Trump was and is very popular no matter what the haters say. I've never heard a crowd just spontaneously start chanting "We love you" to any politician, ever. When they did that in Florida the first time, he was taken aback. It really touched him.

Trump's rallies dwarfed Obama's, and he was doing it 4 or 5 times a day coming up on Nov 3. A biden rally was old  man Joe shouting at an empty parking lot.

So call me skeptical that this guy, the ultimate DC insider, totally got 81 million votes...


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Not when he submitted his plea, you douchebag psycho.  He's still not convicted.
> 
> We've already established that you can't be honest about whether Flynn's plea was voluntary. All you can do is lie.
> 
> We're done.



LOL

Fucking moron, a person found guilty in a court of law is convicted. Your vapid denials can't wash away he's a convicted felon.


----------



## Faun

para bellum said:


> I just don't find it credible. I can believe the intensity of the dislike for Trump among democrats may have been greater in 2020, but no one has convinced be there are more of them. I know democrats who voted for Trump in 2020, they voted for Hillary in 2016.
> 
> In 2008, Obama drew large crowds everywhere he went, I _knew_ he was popular- I could see it.
> 
> At least post-civil war, no incumbent president has gained votes in his re-election bid and lost the election. Obama had 5 million fewer votes in 2012 than 2008, but he still won re-election.
> 
> Not only did Trump gain votes in 2020, he matched Ronald Reagan's 1984 landslide, when Reagan won every State but one. And Republicans swept the down ballot toss-up races in 2020, so there's your polling...
> 
> Yet Biden was able to get almost 20% more votes than Obama in 2008 with 40% fewer counties?
> 
> Trump won 18 of 19 Bellweather counties, and the Bellweather States of Ohio and Florida. Ohio is a benchmark, in that Wisconsin and Pennsylvania tend to track with Ohio. Where Ohio goes, they all go. And they were doing just that, right up until the giant middle of the night ballot drops.
> 
> If the dislike for Trump is the reason for the record turnout in places like Milwaukee, why didn't we see the same thing in Cleveland? Those cities are geographically and demographically similar, but turnout in Cleveland was down from 2008 and 2016.
> 
> From the second world war until Nixon, Americans voted for Washington D.C. insiders for President. After Watergate, that changed. We turned to Governors, and with the exception of Bush 41 (who campaigned as a 3rd term of Reagan), every President after 1972 was a Governor, through Bush 43.
> 
> Americans were sick of the partisanship and bickering in 2008. Obama campaigned as an outsider, not just from DC but from politics. He didn't really have a voting record, he was a nobody state rep, who spent a couple years in the Senate avoiding controversial votes. He promised to unite the country, it wasn't about red states and blue states, etc.
> 
> America went with the outsider. In 2016, Trump's election was a continuation of that move away from traditional politicians in the White House.
> 
> Presidential elections are always popularity contests, and Trump was and is very popular no matter what the haters say. I've never heard a crowd just spontaneously start chanting "We love you" to any politician, ever. When they did that in Florida the first time, he was taken aback. It really touched him.
> 
> Trump's rallies dwarfed Obama's, and he was doing it 4 or 5 times a day coming up on Nov 3. A biden rally was old  man Joe shouting at an empty parking lot.
> 
> So call me skeptical that this guy, the ultimate DC insider, totally got 81 million votes...
> 
> View attachment 613383



Speaking of anecdotal evidence, all but two of the Republicans I know who voted for Trump in 2016, voted for Biden in 2020.

And Trump did not win every state but one like Reagan. And unlike Reagan, who is among the best presidents we've had, Trump wades near the worst.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> LOL
> 
> Fucking moron, a person found guilty in a court of law is convicted. Your vapid denials can't wash away he's a convicted felon.


Yes, that's true, but Flynn was not convicted when he submitted his plea.

Are you ever not a moron?

Ever??


----------



## para bellum

Faun said:


> And Trump did not win every state but one like Reagan.


Didn't say he did. The West Coast is permanently gone- no republican will win a Statewide office again in CA, OR, or WA.

Trump's vote gains from 2016 to 2020 matched Reagan's gains in 1984- 11 million more votes than his first election. But somehow he lost States. It's not credible to me, I'm just not able to suspend my disbelief to that extent.

I think the reason Biden is in the White House, is because democrats took the billion dollars they would normally have spent on campaigning, and spent it directly on administering the elections in those 6 key States. They were given access to the voter rolls, the ballots, and the tabulating. They had ballot tracking and harvesting apps in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Georgia that we know of, I believe in Arizona as well. With API's that connected directly to the State election systems, so they had real-time monitoring of who had voted and who hadn't. They ran daily routes to drop boxes in their target neighborhoods, and they didn't do the required record-keeping.

Municipal election departments were turned into partisan "Get out the vote" agencies when they are supposed to be impartial election administrators.


----------



## bripat9643

para bellum said:


> Didn't say he did. The West Coast is permanently gone- no republican will win a Statewide office again in CA, OR, or WA.
> 
> Trump's vote gains from 2016 to 2020 matched Reagan's gains in 1984- 11 million more votes than his first election. But somehow he lost States. It's not credible to me, I'm just not able to suspend my disbelief to that extent.
> 
> I think the reason Biden is in the White House, is because democrats took the billion dollars they would normally have spent on campaigning, and spent it directly on administering the elections in those 6 key States. They were given access to the voter rolls, the ballots, and the tabulating. They had ballot tracking and harvesting apps in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Georgia that we know of, I believe in Arizona as well. With API's that connected directly to the State election systems, so they had real-time monitoring of who had voted and who hadn't. They ran daily routes to drop boxes in their target neighborhoods, and they didn't do the required record-keeping.
> 
> Municipal election departments were turned into partisan "Get out the vote" agencies when they are supposed to be impartial election administrators.


There's also the 500 million Zuckerberg contributed.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Yes, that's true, but Flynn was not convicted when he submitted his plea.
> 
> Are you ever not a moron?
> 
> Ever??



Yes, it's true a person found guilty in a court of law is a convicted criminal. You just agreed with that.

Flynn was found guilty in a court of law when the judge accepted his guilty plea.

Are you ever not a fucking moron?

Ever??


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Yes, it's true a person found guilty in a court of law is a convicted criminal. You just agreed with that.
> 
> Flynn was found guilty in a court of law when the judge accepted his guilty plea.
> 
> Are you ever not a fucking moron?
> 
> Ever??


You claimed he was a convicted criminal when he submitted his plea.   If he was ever a convicted criminal, it wasn't until after he submitted his plea.

Is your brain damage making it too hard for you to follow the discussion?


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> You claimed he was a convicted criminal when he submitted his plea.   If he was ever a convicted criminal, it wasn't until after he submitted his plea.
> 
> Is your brain damage making it too hard for you to follow the discussion?



LOL

Fucking moron -- he submitted his plea.

You're such a fucking moron, you're describing him as a convicted felon while at the same time, you're denying he was a convicted felon.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> LOL
> 
> Fucking moron -- he submitted his plea.
> 
> You're such a fucking moron, you're describing him as a convicted felon while at the same time, you're denying he was a convicted felon.


What part of "at the time he submitted his plea" didn't you understand?

You aren't really this stupid, are you?  Do you understand the meaning of terms like "before" and "after."


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> What part of "at the time he submitted his plea" didn't you understand?
> 
> You aren't really this stupid, are you?  Do you understand the meaning of terms like "before" and "after."



LOL

Fucking moron, a conviction doesn't just last for the day when a criminal is convicted.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> LOL
> 
> Fucking moron, a conviction doesn't just last for the day when a criminal is convicted.


You can't be convicted before you are convicted, you fucking moron.

Please lookup the words "before" and "after."


----------



## scruffy

Fascinating.

People are still obsessed with Trump.

Amazing.

(Is there a facepalm smiley?)


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> You can't be convicted before you are convicted, you fucking moron.
> 
> Please lookup the words "before" and "after."



Fucking moron, a convicted felon remains a convicted felon even after they are found guilty in a court of law.

Are you ever not a fucking moron?

Ever??


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Fucking moron, a convicted felon remains a convicted felon even after they are found guilty in a court of law.
> 
> Are you ever not a fucking moron?
> 
> Ever??


Someone doesn't become a convicted felon until after he's convicted.  Flynn wasn't convicted until "AFTER" he submitted his plea.  You claim that Flynn was a convicted felon BEFORE he submitted his plea.  

Did you go lookup the definition of "BEFORE" and "AFTER" like I told you to, you brain damaged fucktard?


----------



## Turtlesoup

surada said:


> Trump can't help himself. He desperately needed for Americans to believe he won the popular vote over Hillary. Trump is very weak and insecure.


What are you babbling about----this is america--popular vote (which is made of millions of illegals, dead, felons who can't legally vote) doesn't count.   It's the electoral which keeps corrupt CA and NY from stuffing the ballots insuring that no one that they don't want ever wins.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Someone doesn't become a convicted felon until after he's convicted.  Flynn wasn't convicted until "AFTER" he submitted his plea.  You claim that Flynn was a convicted felon BEFORE he submitted his plea.
> 
> Did you go lookup the definition of "BEFORE" and "AFTER" like I told you to, you brain damaged fucktard?



LOLOLOL

Fucking moron, I never once said Flynn was a convicted felon before he pleaded guilty. 

Do you even know you're fucking insane?

Regardless of your senility, he pleaded guilty. That made him a convicted felon.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> LOLOLOL
> 
> Fucking moron, I never once said Flynn was a convicted felon before he pleaded guilty.
> 
> Do you even know you're fucking insane?
> 
> Regardless of your senility, he pleaded guilty. That made him a convicted felon.


Sure you did, douchebag. You said that was part of the reason that his plea was "voluntary,"  why it was somehow different qualitatively from a woman give a choice of being raped or having her throat slit.

"Voluntary" another word you don't understand.


----------



## surada

Turtlesoup said:


> What are you babbling about----this is america--popular vote (which is made of millions of illegals, dead, felons who can't legally vote) doesn't count.   It's the electoral which keeps corrupt CA and NY from stuffing the ballots insuring that no one that they don't want ever wins.


Trump was crazy to prove he won the popular vote in 2016. Remember? Then he went on to claim he had the biggest inaugural turn out in history.. and that 3-5 million illegals voted. He's just so pitiful and so painfully insecure.


----------



## scruffy

surada said:


> Trump was crazy to prove he won the popular vote in 2016. Remember? Then he went on to claim he had the biggest inaugural turn out in history.. and that 3-5 million illegals voted. He's just so pitiful and so painfully insecure.


Excuse me but... who cares?


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Sure you did, douchebag. You said that was part of the reason that his plea was "voluntary,"  why it was somehow different qualitatively from a woman give a choice of being raped or having her throat slit.
> 
> "Voluntary" another word you don't understand.



Fucking moron, here's what I said ...

_"You're beyond nuts, fucking moron. Flynn was a convicted felon."_​
Where in there do you see where I said he was a convicted felon before he pleaded guilty...?


----------



## Faun

scruffy said:


> Excuse me but... who cares?



He's indicated he will be running again in 2024. Don't you think veracity matters?


----------



## scruffy

Faun said:


> He's indicated he will be running again in 2024. Don't you think veracity matters?


"Veracity"?

lol

There hasn't been any veracity in this discussion. None. Not an iota.


----------



## Faun

scruffy said:


> "Veracity"?
> 
> lol
> 
> There hasn't been any veracity in this discussion. None. Not an iota.



I'm talking about candidates for office. Not posters here.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> LOLOLOL
> 
> Fucking moron, I never once said Flynn was a convicted felon before he pleaded guilty.
> 
> Do you even know you're fucking insane?
> 
> Regardless of your senility, he pleaded guilty. That made him a convicted felon.


You said his plea was "voluntary" because he was a convicted felon, fucktard.  He wasn't convicted of anything when he submitted his guilty plea, so your argument is null and void.  You've been stepping on your own dick all over the place in this discussion.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Fucking moron, here's what I said ...
> 
> _"You're beyond nuts, fucking moron. Flynn was a convicted felon."_​
> Where in there do you see where I said he was a convicted felon before he pleaded guilty...?



Here you go, dumbfuck:

_"Yes, it's true a person found guilty in a court of law is a convicted criminal. You just agreed with that._​​_Flynn was found guilty in a court of law when the judge accepted his guilty plea._​​_Are you ever not a fucking moron?_​​_Ever??"_​​You're said he was a convicted criminal WHEN he submitted his plea.  That means BEFORE, dumbass.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> You said his plea was "voluntary" because he was a convicted felon, fucktard.  He wasn't convicted of anything when he submitted his guilty plea, so your argument is null and void.  You've been stepping on your own dick all over the place in this discussion.



I never said any such thing, ya raving lunatic. 

You denied he committed a crime and to prove he committed a crime, I pointed out he's a convicted felon. Which he is, despite your hollow denial, since his guilty plea was accepted in court. That means he admitted he committed the crime you deny he committed.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Here you go, dumbfuck:
> 
> _"Yes, it's true a person found guilty in a court of law is a convicted criminal. You just agreed with that._​​_Flynn was found guilty in a court of law when the judge accepted his guilty plea._​​_Are you ever not a fucking moron?_​​_Ever??"_​​You're said he was a convicted criminal WHEN he submitted his plea.  That means BEFORE, dumbass.



LOL

You're such a fucking moron. The word, "submitted," isn't even in my post. YOU added that. 

And that's not what my post means. It means a person is a convicted criminal when a judge accepts a defendant's guilty plea.

Does the judge accept a guilty plea before or after a guilty plea is submitted to the court?

Answer: *After*.

Meaning I never said he was convicted when he submitted his guilty plea.

Are you ever not a fucking moron?

Ever???


----------



## scruffy

Faun said:


> I'm talking about candidates for office. Not posters here.


I think politicians lie. All of them. Without exception.

Veracity is such a nebulous concept.

I look for capability, the ability to get things done 

Mr Trump for example, promised to drain the swamp and he couldn't do it. Kind of like Putin in Ukraine, the swamp turned out to be a little bigger than he thought.

When it comes to politics, I don't care much about personalities, I care about policies and accomplishments.


----------



## Turtlesoup

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> maybe 20 years ago.
> 
> now he is notorious for watching 8 hours of right wing TV a day and showing up for work at 11 am.
> 
> Get with the times, my man.


Thats a lie---we seen  him work from morning up to the wee hours of the morning during the campaign.  

Take your spin somewhere else....


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> I never said any such thing, ya raving lunatic.
> 
> You denied he committed a crime and to prove he committed a crime, I pointed out he's a convicted felon. Which he is, despite your hollow denial, since his guilty plea was accepted in court. That means he admitted he committed the crime you deny he committed.


I was talking about at the time he submitted his plea, you braindead moron.  The criteria for evaluating his plea cannot include a conviction that will only occur after his plea.

You are a special kind of stupid.

I can see where this is going.  You are whirling round and round and obfuscating the facts so no one can remember what was said.


----------



## bripat9643

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> maybe 20 years ago.
> 
> now he is notorious for watching 8 hours of right wing TV a day and showing up for work at 11 am.
> 
> Get with the times, my man.


That's a prog fantasy backed by nothing.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> I was talking about at the time he submitted his plea, you braindead moron.  The criteria for evaluating his plea cannot include a conviction that will only occur after his plea.
> 
> You are a special kind of stupid.
> 
> I can see where this is going.  You are whirling round and round and obfuscating the facts so no one can remember what was said.



Who cares what you were talking about, fucking moron? You're deranged and you don't know what you're talking about. As I showed, I never said what you ascribed to me. I did say Flynn is a convicted felon, which he is; and which you ridiculously denied.

And no, you weren't talking about the time he submitted his plea. You denied he committed a crime. That's when I pointed out he's a convicted felon for the crime he committed.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> LOL
> 
> You're such a fucking moron. The word, "submitted," isn't even in my post. YOU added that.
> 
> And that's not what my post means. It means a person is a convicted criminal when a judge accepts a defendant's guilty plea.
> 
> Does the judge accept a guilty plea before or after a guilty plea is submitted to the court?
> 
> Answer: *After*.
> 
> Meaning I never said he was convicted when he submitted his guilty plea.
> 
> Are you ever not a fucking moron?
> 
> Ever???


You didn't use the word "submitted" because you're trying to weasel around the issue.  You aren't fooling anyone.

Now tell us, what does the word "voluntary" means.


----------



## bripat9643

Faun said:


> Who cares what you were talking about, fucking moron? You're deranged and you don't know what you're talking about. As I showed, I never said what you ascribed to me. I did say Flynn is a convicted felon, which he is; and which you ridiculously denied.
> 
> And no, you weren't talking about the time he submitted his plea. You denied he committed a crime. That's when I pointed out he's a convicted felon for the crime he committed.


Whether you are lying here depends on what I was talking about when you posted your sleazy lies.

You're deliberately being vague and unclear because you're a lying hack.  You know your claims are false, so you're trying weasel your way out of supporting them.  The bottom line is, for the purposes of this discussion, Flynn was not a convicted felon.  It was dishonest of you to even bring that up.  Whether he was a felon after the plea is irrelevant to any discussion about whether his plea voluntary, which proves that you're lying.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> You didn't use the word "submitted" because you're trying to weasel around the issue.  You aren't fooling anyone.
> 
> Now tell us, what does the word "voluntary" means.



LOL

I didn't use the word, "submitted," because it had nothing to do with what I was talking about. Again, YOU were the one who ascribed me as using that word I didn't use in your failed attempt to spin what I said into something you wish I had said.


----------



## Faun

bripat9643 said:


> Whether you are lying here depends on what I was talking about when you posted your sleazy lies.
> 
> You're deliberately being vague and unclear because you're a lying hack.  You know your claims are false, so you're trying weasel your way out of supporting them.  The bottom line is, for the purposes of this discussion, Flynn was not a convicted felon.  It was dishonest of you to even bring that up.  Whether he was a felon after the plea is irrelevant to any discussion about whether his plea voluntary, which proves that you're lying.



Poor, unhinged fucking moron. My claim was Flynn is a convicted felon. You idiotically denied that.


----------



## para bellum

Faun said:


> Poor, unhinged fucking moron. My claim was Flynn is a convicted felon. You idiotically denied that.


In the eyes of the law he is not a convicted felon. A criminal conviction is a formal judgement of guilt by a court. That's not how this case was concluded. The guilty plea was rescinded before sentencing, and the charges against Gen. Flynn were dismissed.

That is not a criminal conviction, sorry.


----------



## Faun

para bellum said:


> In the eyes of the law he is not a convicted felon. A criminal conviction is a formal judgement of guilt by a court. That's not how this case was concluded. The guilty plea was rescinded before sentencing, and the charges against Gen. Flynn were dismissed.
> 
> That is not a criminal conviction, sorry.



The guilty plea was never rescinded. Flynn filed a motion with the court to withdraw his guilty plea but the court never granted it.

Flynn is a convicted felon and will forever remain a convicted felon.


----------



## para bellum

Faun said:


> The guilty plea was never rescinded. Flynn filed a motion with the court to withdraw his guilty plea but the court never granted it.
> 
> Flynn is a convicted felon and will forever remain a convicted felon.


A plea is not an adjudication. Sullivan had an opportunity to close the case and pass sentence when the Mueller probe was finished, and he didn't do it.

If you were to do a background check on Flynn, there will be no criminal conviction on his record. There was only ever the one charge, and it was ultimately dismissed.

Even Wiki got it right.

_*United States v. Flynn*_ was a criminal case in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia which was dismissed without any convictions in December 2020 following a presidential pardon.









						United States v. Flynn - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## lennypartiv

Faun said:


> The guilty plea was never rescinded. Flynn filed a motion with the court to withdraw his guilty plea but the court never granted it.
> Flynn is a convicted felon and will forever remain a convicted felon.


Flynn was exonerated.


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## Faun

para bellum said:


> A plea is not an adjudication. Sullivan had an opportunity to close the case and pass sentence when the Mueller probe was finished, and he didn't do it.
> 
> If you were to do a background check on Flynn, there will be no criminal conviction on his record. There was only ever the one charge, and it was ultimately dismissed.
> 
> Even Wiki got it right.
> 
> _*United States v. Flynn*_ was a criminal case in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia which was dismissed without any convictions in December 2020 following a presidential pardon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United States v. Flynn - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


He was convicted the moment the judge accepted his guilty plea. At that moment, he was guilty in the eyes of the law. 

Aside from the fact that you're ridiculously citing Wikipedia, your own link doesn't even contain the word, "conviction."


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## Faun

lennypartiv said:


> Flynn was exonerated.



LOL

No, he wasn't.  He was pardoned.  A pardon is *forgiveness*, not *exoneration*. A pardon does not erase a conviction.


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## surada

easyt65 said:


> Except no one, to include Barry, was ever held accountable for participating in Barry's failed coup attempt...
> 
> ...or how neither Mueller or Comey were held accountable for illegally spying on Americans for DECADES, as exposed by the FISA Court investigation report
> 
> ...or how none of the Democrats (Schiff & Swalwell) who were proven to have criminally attempted to create fake evidence against Trump in Pelosi's 2 failed Impeachments were held accountable...
> 
> ...Or how it was proven that Barry & co. collaborated with the Russian Intel Service (RIS) to obtain proven Russian-authored propaganda, delivered by a foreign ex-spy working for Barry's FBI and the Russians, to use as their foundation for Barry's failed coup attempt...
> 
> ..or how the tax payer-funded Durham report is being withheld from the American people....
> 
> Actually there is a great deal you could have added - you just chose NOT to.


You idiot. Paul Singer is a Republican billionaire. He hated Trump... So does Richard Branson.  Trump is a joke among real businessmen.


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## Fort Fun Indiana

Spoiler alert:

Barr already said he would bend over for Trump in 2024.


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## para bellum

Faun said:


> He was convicted the moment the judge accepted his guilty plea. At that moment, he was guilty in the eyes of the law.


Because you say so? Lol.

Can Flynn still vote? Can he own a gun? Yep, because he is not a convicted felon.

In the rule of the law, a conviction is a formal determination by a court. There is no other definition. There was one case, and that case record does not include a judgement of guilty by the court. The case was dismissed. End of case.


Faun said:


> Aside from the fact that you're ridiculously citing Wikipedia, your own link doesn't even contain the word, "conviction."


WTF? It's the very first sentence of the Wiki entry, and I quoted it in my post.

*dismissed without any convictions in December 2020*


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## lennypartiv

Faun said:


> LOL
> 
> No, he wasn't.  He was pardoned.  A pardon is *forgiveness*, not *exoneration*. A pardon does not erase a conviction.


He's not in prison, which means he was exonerated.


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## LaDairis

Faun said:


> Why should anyone expect that isn't just more bullshit you're posting given I busted you posting bullshit? So you just switch from one bullshit story to another when caught?




Must be a pretty boring time at Mossad HQ if you are still monitoring the Mossad's election fraud issue...

Don't you have another war to false flag on us??

Your guy is in the WH

What are you waiting for???










						What on Earth Would Prompt a Newspaper Editor to Call for Obama's Assassination?
					

It's unclear if he was being satirical or just insensitive, but Atlanta Jewish Times owner and publisher Andrew Adler more or less called for President Obama's assassination in his column last week.




					www.theatlantic.com
				





Three, give the go-ahead for U.S.-based Mossad agents to take out a president deemed unfriendly to Israel in order for the current vice president to take his place, and forcefully dictate that the United States' policy includes its helping the Jewish state obliterate its enemies.


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## rightnow909

I don't believe Barr said that

but if he did

HE (ironically) is ... what he accuses T of being...

loser alert


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