# Joe  Montana is the best QB who has ever played



## ginscpy

tell me  im wrong


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## Article 15

http://www.usmessageboard.com/sports/144554-joe-montana-best-qb-who-played-the-the-position.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/sports/136658-joe-montana-the-best-qb-who-has-ever-play-the-posistion.html


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## ginscpy

Green Jersey Game:  ND 49 USC 17

ND 35 Texas 10


Gor screweed in LA in 1978   

Still won the Choickon Soup Game


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## Douger

Terry Bradshaw or Joe Namath.
When I was uh murkin I used to follow such idiocy.


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## editec

Brett Favre

But in terms of the total QB package -- scores on the field _and _off the field?

Broadway Joe Namath


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## LA RAM FAN

how many threads are you going to make of this title? this is at LEAST your second.


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## FuelRod

editec said:


> Brett Favre
> 
> But in terms of the total QB package -- scores on the field _and _off the field?
> 
> Broadway Joe Namath



You can't compare the different era's like that.  Montana and Namath didn't play in the age of technology that Favre did


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## Paulie

How fucking retarded does one have to be to fuck a thread title up that bad?


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## random3434

The BEST Quarterback EVER?

*
Ryan Leaf ! *


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## FuelRod

Matt Leinart.


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## Oddball

ginscpy said:


> tell me  im wrong


You're wrong.

A certain dude by the name of Francis set all the records that modern quarterbacks have chased after, back in the day when the running game ruled the league.


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## Oddball

Paulie said:


> How fucking retarded does one have to be to fuck a thread title up that bad?







Fixed.


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## ginscpy

ok whatever

Joecool munks Usnc which i wasa viriturakl NFL

a bunch ofsmuchs bybpass himm in th nff  draft


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## syrenn

ginscpy said:


> tell me  im wrong





you're wrong.


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## ginscpy

Chicken Soup game


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## editec

FuelRod said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Brett Favre
> 
> But in terms of the total QB package -- scores on the field _and _off the field?
> 
> Broadway Joe Namath
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't compare the different era's like that. Montana and Namath didn't play in the age of technology that Favre did
Click to expand...

 
I can if I wanna.

You think the changing technology of football gave later QBs an advantage?

Oh yeah that's right I forgot that Favre has the advanatage of that anti-defensive lineman forcefield, that rocket powered football, and those high-tech atomic powered running shoes to give him those amazing stats.


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## Toro

Montana was the best QB I ever saw though Brady may be close.

But what about Johnny Unitas?  He was before my time but I've heard some pretty good arguments why he is the best ever

- 3 championships, 1 SB and 2 NFL pre-SB
- 10 Pro Bowl selections
- 6 All-Pro selections
- 4 time MVP
- 40,000 passing yards when it was still a running league


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## manifold

Did somebody say Brett Favre? 

Not even top ten during his own era.


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## Toro

manifold said:


> Did somebody say Brett Favre?
> 
> Not even top ten during his own era.



Are you kidding?  I wouldn't put him as the very best but he'd be in the top 5 or 6 of his generation.  He was a SB winner and 3-time MVP.  He holds all sorts of records.  He has something like only two losing seasons as a starting QB over 18, which is incredible.  These are the best QBs of this era, in no particular order

Brady
Manning
Elway
Montana
Favre
Marino

Who would you put above Favre?


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## manifold

Toro said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did somebody say Brett Favre?
> 
> Not even top ten during his own era.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding?  I wouldn't put him as the very best but he'd be in the top 5 or 6 of his generation.  He was a SB winner and 3-time MVP.  He holds all sorts of records.  He has something like only two losing seasons as a starting QB over 18, which is incredible.  These are the best QBs of this era, in no particular order
> 
> Brady
> Manning
> Elway
> Montana
> Favre
> Marino
> 
> Who would you put above Favre?
Click to expand...


I'd take any of these guys in their prime before I'd want Favre on my team:

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Dan Marino
John Elway
Joe Montana
Jim Kelly
Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers
Jim McMahon
Troy Aikman
Steve Young
Boomer Esiason


Seriously, I think Favre is the most overrated professional athlete of all time.


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## Toro

manifold said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did somebody say Brett Favre?
> 
> Not even top ten during his own era.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding?  I wouldn't put him as the very best but he'd be in the top 5 or 6 of his generation.  He was a SB winner and 3-time MVP.  He holds all sorts of records.  He has something like only two losing seasons as a starting QB over 18, which is incredible.  These are the best QBs of this era, in no particular order
> 
> Brady
> Manning
> Elway
> Montana
> Favre
> Marino
> 
> Who would you put above Favre?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'd take any of these guys in their prime before I'd want Favre on my team:
> ...
> Jim Kelly
> Drew Brees
> Aaron Rodgers
> Jim McMahon
> Troy Aikman
> Steve Young
> Boomer Esiason
> 
> Seriously, I think Favre is the most overrated professional athlete of all time.
Click to expand...


Why?  I don't think he's the greatest ever but I don't know many who think that either.

It's too early to say on Brees and Rodgers.  Esiason and McMahon aren't even in the conversation.  I can see the arguments for Kelly, Aikman and Young, but at his height, Favre played at a higher level than all of them.  Aikman was a winner but never won the MVP.  Kelly never won a SB nor an MVP.  And unlike those three, there were times when Favre was all the Packers had and he carried them on his shoulders.


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## editec

manifold said:


> Did somebody say Brett Favre?
> 
> Not even top ten during his own era.


 
Show me your stats.


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## manifold

Toro said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding?  I wouldn't put him as the very best but he'd be in the top 5 or 6 of his generation.  He was a SB winner and 3-time MVP.  He holds all sorts of records.  He has something like only two losing seasons as a starting QB over 18, which is incredible.  These are the best QBs of this era, in no particular order
> 
> Brady
> Manning
> Elway
> Montana
> Favre
> Marino
> 
> Who would you put above Favre?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd take any of these guys in their prime before I'd want Favre on my team:
> ...
> Jim Kelly
> Drew Brees
> Aaron Rodgers
> Jim McMahon
> Troy Aikman
> Steve Young
> Boomer Esiason
> 
> Seriously, I think Favre is the most overrated professional athlete of all time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?  I don't think he's the greatest ever but I don't know many who think that either.
> 
> It's too early to say on Brees and Rodgers.  Esiason and McMahon aren't even in the conversation.  I can see the arguments for Kelly, Aikman and Young, but at his height, Favre played at a higher level than all of them.  Aikman was a winner but never won the MVP.  Kelly never won a SB nor an MVP.  And unlike those three, there were times when Favre was all the Packers had and he carried them on his shoulders.
Click to expand...


Favre had great physical skills, but he was reckless and absolutley horrible at reading defenses.  And all else equal, I would still rather have Esiason or McMahon in their prime than Favre in his.


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## manifold

editec said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did somebody say Brett Favre?
> 
> Not even top ten during his own era.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show me your stats.
Click to expand...


"Stats are for idiots" - Bill Belichick


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## Big Fitz

manifold said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did somebody say Brett Favre?
> 
> Not even top ten during his own era.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding?  I wouldn't put him as the very best but he'd be in the top 5 or 6 of his generation.  He was a SB winner and 3-time MVP.  He holds all sorts of records.  He has something like only two losing seasons as a starting QB over 18, which is incredible.  These are the best QBs of this era, in no particular order
> 
> Brady
> Manning
> Elway
> Montana
> Favre
> Marino
> 
> Who would you put above Favre?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'd take any of these guys in their prime before I'd want Favre on my team:
> 
> Tom Brady
> Peyton Manning
> Dan Marino
> John Elway
> Joe Montana
> Jim Kelly
> Drew Brees
> Aaron Rodgers
> Jim McMahon
> Troy Aikman
> Steve Young
> Boomer Esiason
> 
> 
> Seriously, I think Favre is the most overrated professional athlete of all time.
Click to expand...

BOOMER ESIASON??????  Fucking BOOMER is better than Favre?  Wow... that's just... wow!

I'm just wondering where Terry "I've got 4 superbowl rings" Bradshaw" and Bart "I've got 3 rings" Starr rate on these lists?

Tarkington set most of the records that others had to break.  Then Marino, and then Favre.  Peyton Manning deserves to be up there... Brady possibly so.  Rodgers?  Not yet.  He needs more time in.  Kelly, Elway, Aikman go without saying.  McMahon?  Not really... top 20..... hmmmmmm maybe.  Behind Bernie Kosar.

But to the OP, Montana, best of all time?  Hmmmmmm... Top three for sure... definitely the best field general there ever was.  But overall.... I want to say yes, but I'm still not sure.


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## Big Fitz

manifold said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did somebody say Brett Favre?
> 
> Not even top ten during his own era.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show me your stats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Stats are for idiots" - Bill Belichick
Click to expand...

This from a man who hasn't won a championship since being caught cheating.


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## rightwinger

Montana is the best I have ever seen.  The guy didn't have the tools of some other QBs, but all he did was win. With the game on the line, he had the best instincts I ever saw


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## rightwinger

Douger said:


> Terry Bradshaw or Joe Namath.
> When I was uh murkin I used to follow such idiocy.



Joe Namath is the most overrated QB of all time

Threw more interceptions than TDs, 50% completion rate, 65 QB rating

He won one Superbowl in which he led his team to one touchdown. The Jets Defense beat the Colts that day not Namath. Jets D held the Colts who averaged 30 pts a game to 7 points


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## manifold

Big Fitz said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding?  I wouldn't put him as the very best but he'd be in the top 5 or 6 of his generation.  He was a SB winner and 3-time MVP.  He holds all sorts of records.  He has something like only two losing seasons as a starting QB over 18, which is incredible.  These are the best QBs of this era, in no particular order
> 
> Brady
> Manning
> Elway
> Montana
> Favre
> Marino
> 
> Who would you put above Favre?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd take any of these guys in their prime before I'd want Favre on my team:
> 
> Tom Brady
> Peyton Manning
> Dan Marino
> John Elway
> Joe Montana
> Jim Kelly
> Drew Brees
> Aaron Rodgers
> Jim McMahon
> Troy Aikman
> Steve Young
> Boomer Esiason
> 
> 
> Seriously, I think Favre is the most overrated professional athlete of all time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BOOMER ESIASON??????  Fucking BOOMER is better than Favre?  Wow... that's just... wow!
> 
> I'm just wondering where Terry "I've got 4 superbowl rings" Bradshaw" and Bart "I've got 3 rings" Starr rate on these lists?
> 
> Tarkington set most of the records that others had to break.  Then Marino, and then Favre.  Peyton Manning deserves to be up there... Brady possibly so.  Rodgers?  Not yet.  He needs more time in.  Kelly, Elway, Aikman go without saying.  McMahon?  Not really... top 20..... hmmmmmm maybe.  Behind Bernie Kosar.
> 
> But to the OP, Montana, best of all time?  Hmmmmmm... Top three for sure... definitely the best field general there ever was.  But overall.... I want to say yes, but I'm still not sure.
Click to expand...


Boomer always played on shitty teams.  He would've been just as successful as Favre in Green Bay, if not moreso IMO.

I didn't include Bradshaw, Starr, Tarkenton, Graham or Unitas because I was only listing QB's whose playing days overlapped with Favre's.

And yes, I'd add Kosar to the list of QB's I think were better than Favre.


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## manifold

rightwinger said:


> Joe Namath is the most overrated QB of all time
> 
> Threw more interceptions than TDs, 50% completion rate, 65 QB rating
> 
> He won one Superbowl in which he led his team to one touchdown. The Jets Defense beat the Colts that day not Namath. Jets D held the Colts who averaged 30 pts a game to 7 points



I agree that anyone who lists him among the best is certainly overrating him.  But I don't think very many people list him among the best.


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## rightwinger

Toro said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did somebody say Brett Favre?
> 
> Not even top ten during his own era.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding?  I wouldn't put him as the very best but he'd be in the top 5 or 6 of his generation.  He was a SB winner and 3-time MVP.  He holds all sorts of records.  He has something like only two losing seasons as a starting QB over 18, which is incredible.  These are the best QBs of this era, in no particular order
> 
> Brady
> Manning
> Elway
> Montana
> Favre
> Marino
> 
> Who would you put above Favre?
Click to expand...


We may put Aaron Rodgers


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## manifold

Big Fitz said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Show me your stats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Stats are for idiots" - Bill Belichick
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This from a man who hasn't won a championship since being caught cheating.
Click to expand...



True.

But he won three titles before filming the opposing defensive signals was actually banned by the NFL.


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## manifold

Notice that I didn't put Drew Bledsoe on my list of QB's better than Favre.

And I'm a die hard Pats fan.


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## ginscpy

When Montana destroyed a GOOD  Southern California  team 49-19 -  (made it look easy)  -thought this guy was something special...................


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## driveby

John Elway ftw ......


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## rightwinger

manifold said:


> Notice that I didn't put Drew Bledsoe on my list of QB's better than Favre.
> 
> And I'm a die hard Pats fan.



Ryan Leaf either


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## ginscpy

WTF - ND shouold get to to Final 4  and win - like they  should have in 1978


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## Big Fitz

manifold said:


> Notice that I didn't put Drew Bledsoe on my list of QB's better than Favre.
> 
> And I'm a die hard Pats fan.


well at least your honest then and not a total homer.    And you didn't cite Steve Grogan either.  LOL

I also didn't cite Don Majikowski.


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## ginscpy

Freaking injustice

cuase of refs gaffe - USC wins the game against ND gets a share of theNc


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## LA RAM FAN

Oddball said:


> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> 
> tell me  im wrong
> 
> 
> 
> You're wrong.
> 
> A certain dude by the name of Francis set all the records that modern quarterbacks have chased after, back in the day when the running game ruled the league.
Click to expand...


Man those were the good old days when the NFL was fun to watch when the vikings played outdoors. I miss the goold old days when the NFL was fun and i got excited about it every weekend before the moronic advent of free agency,parity,domed stadiums,and these greedy selfish owners deserting their long time fans for greener pastures to move to another city.That brings back such fond memories seeing the vikings outdoors again at a home game the way it should be. hopefully after this season,they can get a new outdoor stadium again like the Seattle Seahawks wisely did.


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## LA RAM FAN

manifold said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd take any of these guys in their prime before I'd want Favre on my team:
> ...
> Jim Kelly
> Drew Brees
> Aaron Rodgers
> Jim McMahon
> Troy Aikman
> Steve Young
> Boomer Esiason
> 
> Seriously, I think Favre is the most overrated professional athlete of all time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  I don't think he's the greatest ever but I don't know many who think that either.
> 
> It's too early to say on Brees and Rodgers.  Esiason and McMahon aren't even in the conversation.  I can see the arguments for Kelly, Aikman and Young, but at his height, Favre played at a higher level than all of them.  Aikman was a winner but never won the MVP.  Kelly never won a SB nor an MVP.  And unlike those three, there were times when Favre was all the Packers had and he carried them on his shoulders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Favre had great physical skills, but he was reckless and absolutley horrible at reading defenses.  And all else equal, I would still rather have Esiason or McMahon in their prime than Favre in his.
Click to expand...


Well even though like i said earlier before,this thread starter has made this exact thread at LEAST once before already in the past, here goes since everybody else is replying to it..totaly agree.could not have said it better myself.Favre while he always made some incredible plays,also made a lot of boneheaded decisions in big games those other quarterbacks you listed did not.That costly interception against the saints in the NFC game was typical of Favre over his entire career.It wasnt just that one game where he made such a boneheaded decision that cost them a game.When he played on the road in the playoffs,most the time,that was typical of his play being so reckless and undisiplined.Thats what kept him from advancing to more superbowls in the playoffs was his recklessness.


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## Toro

rightwinger said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did somebody say Brett Favre?
> 
> Not even top ten during his own era.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding?  I wouldn't put him as the very best but he'd be in the top 5 or 6 of his generation.  He was a SB winner and 3-time MVP.  He holds all sorts of records.  He has something like only two losing seasons as a starting QB over 18, which is incredible.  These are the best QBs of this era, in no particular order
> 
> Brady
> Manning
> Elway
> Montana
> Favre
> Marino
> 
> Who would you put above Favre?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We may put Aaron Rodgers
Click to expand...


Too early.  The guy has only been a starter for three years.  Phillip Rivers is as good as Rodgers but the Packers are loaded with talent.


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## LA RAM FAN

manifold said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did somebody say Brett Favre?
> 
> Not even top ten during his own era.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding?  I wouldn't put him as the very best but he'd be in the top 5 or 6 of his generation.  He was a SB winner and 3-time MVP.  He holds all sorts of records.  He has something like only two losing seasons as a starting QB over 18, which is incredible.  These are the best QBs of this era, in no particular order
> 
> Brady
> Manning
> Elway
> Montana
> Favre
> Marino
> 
> Who would you put above Favre?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'd take any of these guys in their prime before I'd want Favre on my team:
> 
> Tom Brady
> Peyton Manning
> Dan Marino
> John Elway
> Joe Montana
> Jim Kelly
> Drew Brees
> Aaron Rodgers
> Jim McMahon
> Troy Aikman
> Steve Young
> Boomer Esiason
> 
> 
> Seriously, I think Favre is the most overrated professional athlete of all time.
Click to expand...


 totally agree.I also would take all of those quarterbacks any day of the year on any given  sunday on my team over Favre except for Esiason and McMahon.Only reason I would not take McMahon over Favre is because of how injury prone he was.If he had been as durable as Farve,The Bears would have been in a few more superbowls.Thats why they havent won the superbowl since then is because they havent had a good quarterback since then.Grossman got them there but it was the defense that carried them that far.Once he got to the superbowl,Grossman's true colors were exposed which is why he is a bench warmer now.


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## rightwinger

Toro said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding?  I wouldn't put him as the very best but he'd be in the top 5 or 6 of his generation.  He was a SB winner and 3-time MVP.  He holds all sorts of records.  He has something like only two losing seasons as a starting QB over 18, which is incredible.  These are the best QBs of this era, in no particular order
> 
> Brady
> Manning
> Elway
> Montana
> Favre
> Marino
> 
> Who would you put above Favre?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We may put Aaron Rodgers
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Too early.  The guy has only been a starter for three years.  Phillip Rivers is as good as Rodgers but the Packers are loaded with talent.
Click to expand...


One more Superbowl and he has Favre beat......could be a good run and he has the tools. Not as reckless as Favre


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## manifold

Toro said:


> Phillip Rivers is as good as Rodgers...



No freaking way dude.

You must be a soccer fan or something.


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## LA RAM FAN

rightwinger said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> We may put Aaron Rodgers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too early.  The guy has only been a starter for three years.  Phillip Rivers is as good as Rodgers but the Packers are loaded with talent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One more Superbowl and he has Favre beat......could be a good run and he has the tools. Not as reckless as Favre
Click to expand...


Good point.He is young and has an excellent chance of winning at least one more before  his career is over.He is more disiplined and not reckless like Favre so I can easily see that happening.Thats why I laughed at the people who were either drunk or on drugs predicting The Bears to not only go to the superbowl,but to win it all. 

Thats why I did not laugh at the people who predicted The Packers to win the superbowl even though I thought for sure The Steelers would win it easily with no problems because I knew the packers at least had a chance to win though and wasnt TOO surprised they won because I did not laugh at the  people for picking the packers to win the superbowl like I did the ones picking  The bears to beat the packers because the packers at least have a good quarterback.


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## LA RAM FAN

manifold said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Phillip Rivers is as good as Rodgers...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No freaking way dude.
> 
> You must be a soccer fan or something.
Click to expand...


I wouldnt go that far.Rivers isnt quite as good as Rodgers yet.He's close but not quite there yet.Its going to be a lot tougher for him to get to the superbowl now since those idiots in management got rid of L.T and Norv is just a an average so/so coach.He's got to find a way to get there first before I can rank him as good as Rodgers but he is vey close to being almost as good as Rodgers.You got to remember Rivers doesnt have a an outstanding receiving core to throw to like Rodgers does.Rodgers has so many weapons to throw to while Rivers really only has Gates so the comparison is kind of unfair.

The Chargers defense has gone downhill the last couple years as well while The Packers have an excellent defense.You got to remember Rivers had to carry that team on his shoulders this year.He had no running game with the loss of L.T and again the defense is not that great.Put him on the packers squad as the starter with a good coach like Rodgers has, and he would have had them in the superbowl as well this year easily.


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## FuelRod

Super Bowls/Championships.


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## manifold

I disagree about Rivers.

He'll no doubt have ample opportunity to prove me wrong, but so far he's looked like absolute dog shit when the game is on the line.  Reminds me of Bledsoe (and Favre) in that regard.


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## LA RAM FAN

manifold said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did somebody say Brett Favre?
> 
> Not even top ten during his own era.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding?  I wouldn't put him as the very best but he'd be in the top 5 or 6 of his generation.  He was a SB winner and 3-time MVP.  He holds all sorts of records.  He has something like only two losing seasons as a starting QB over 18, which is incredible.  These are the best QBs of this era, in no particular order
> 
> Brady
> Manning
> Elway
> Montana
> Favre
> Marino
> 
> Who would you put above Favre?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'd take any of these guys in their prime before I'd want Favre on my team:
> 
> Tom Brady
> Peyton Manning
> Dan Marino
> John Elway
> Joe Montana
> Jim Kelly
> Drew Brees
> Aaron Rodgers
> Jim McMahon
> Troy Aikman
> Steve Young
> Boomer Esiason
> 
> 
> Seriously, I think Favre is the most overrated professional athlete of all time.
Click to expand...


Just remembered something.How can you leave Ben Rothlesberger off that list? He is the MVP of that team and turned that organization around FINALLY bringing back a superbowl championship to Pittsburgh since Bradshaws days winning two out three for them and was the x factor in the victory against the cardinals. Should have won this last oneas well.His teammates made critical mistakes at the wrong time,they basically beat themselves in that game. I would take Esiason off that list and Put Rothlesbergers name there.


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## rightwinger

9/11 inside job said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Phillip Rivers is as good as Rodgers...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No freaking way dude.
> 
> You must be a soccer fan or something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wouldnt go that far.Rivers isnt quite as good as Favre yet.He's close but not quite there yet.Its going to be a lot tougher for him to get to the superbowl now since those idiots in management got rid of L.T and Norv is just a an average so/so coach.He's got to find a way to get there first before I can rank him as good as Rodgers but he is vey close to being almost as good as Rodgers.You got to remember Rivers doesnt have a an outstanding receiving core to throw to like Rodgers does.Rodgers has so many weapons to throw to while Rivers really only has Gates so the comparison is kind of unfair.
> 
> The Chargers defense has gone downhill the last couple years as well while The Packers have an excellent defense.You got to remember Rivers had to carry that team on his shoulders this year.He had no running game with the loss of L.T and again the defense is not that great.Put him on the packers squad as the starter with a good coach like Rodgers has, and he would have had them in the superbowl as well this year easily.
Click to expand...


Rivers is just like Dan Fouts and John Hadyl. Easy to do in San Diego

Puts up big numbers in the regular season and folds in the playoffs. Until he puts up big numbers in a big game....I count him out


----------



## manifold

9/11 inside job said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding?  I wouldn't put him as the very best but he'd be in the top 5 or 6 of his generation.  He was a SB winner and 3-time MVP.  He holds all sorts of records.  He has something like only two losing seasons as a starting QB over 18, which is incredible.  These are the best QBs of this era, in no particular order
> 
> Brady
> Manning
> Elway
> Montana
> Favre
> Marino
> 
> Who would you put above Favre?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd take any of these guys in their prime before I'd want Favre on my team:
> 
> Tom Brady
> Peyton Manning
> Dan Marino
> John Elway
> Joe Montana
> Jim Kelly
> Drew Brees
> Aaron Rodgers
> Jim McMahon
> Troy Aikman
> Steve Young
> Boomer Esiason
> 
> 
> Seriously, I think Favre is the most overrated professional athlete of all time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just remembered something.How can you leave Ben Rothlesberger off that list? He is the MVP of that team and turned that organization around FINALLY bringing back a superbowl championship to Pittsburgh since Bradshaws days winning two out three for them and was the x factor in the victory against the cardinals. Should have won this last oneas well.His teammates made critical mistakes at the wrong time,they basically beat themselves in that game. I would take Esiason off that list and Put Rothlesbergers name there.
Click to expand...


Because I'd rather lose with Favre than win with a rapist.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

manifold said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd take any of these guys in their prime before I'd want Favre on my team:
> 
> Tom Brady
> Peyton Manning
> Dan Marino
> John Elway
> Joe Montana
> Jim Kelly
> Drew Brees
> Aaron Rodgers
> Jim McMahon
> Troy Aikman
> Steve Young
> Boomer Esiason
> 
> 
> Seriously, I think Favre is the most overrated professional athlete of all time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just remembered something.How can you leave Ben Rothlesberger off that list? He is the MVP of that team and turned that organization around FINALLY bringing back a superbowl championship to Pittsburgh since Bradshaws days winning two out three for them and was the x factor in the victory against the cardinals. Should have won this last oneas well.His teammates made critical mistakes at the wrong time,they basically beat themselves in that game. I would take Esiason off that list and Put Rothlesbergers name there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because I'd rather lose with Favre than win with a rapist.
Click to expand...


you got to remember Favre is no saint either with women.


----------



## driveby

9/11 inside job said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding?  I wouldn't put him as the very best but he'd be in the top 5 or 6 of his generation.  He was a SB winner and 3-time MVP.  He holds all sorts of records.  He has something like only two losing seasons as a starting QB over 18, which is incredible.  These are the best QBs of this era, in no particular order
> 
> Brady
> Manning
> Elway
> Montana
> Favre
> Marino
> 
> Who would you put above Favre?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd take any of these guys in their prime before I'd want Favre on my team:
> 
> Tom Brady
> Peyton Manning
> Dan Marino
> John Elway
> Joe Montana
> Jim Kelly
> Drew Brees
> Aaron Rodgers
> Jim McMahon
> Troy Aikman
> Steve Young
> Boomer Esiason
> 
> 
> Seriously, I think Favre is the most overrated professional athlete of all time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just remembered something.How can you leave Ben Rothlesberger off that list? He is the MVP of that team and turned that organization around FINALLY bringing back a superbowl championship to Pittsburgh since Bradshaws days winning two out three for them and was the x factor in the victory against the cardinals. Should have won this last oneas well.His teammates made critical mistakes at the wrong time,they basically beat themselves in that game. I would take Esiason off that list and Put Rothlesbergers name there.
Click to expand...


Why not add Trent Dilfer while you're at it ? ......


----------



## LA RAM FAN

rightwinger said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> No freaking way dude.
> 
> You must be a soccer fan or something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldnt go that far.Rivers isnt quite as good as Favre yet.He's close but not quite there yet.Its going to be a lot tougher for him to get to the superbowl now since those idiots in management got rid of L.T and Norv is just a an average so/so coach.He's got to find a way to get there first before I can rank him as good as Rodgers but he is vey close to being almost as good as Rodgers.You got to remember Rivers doesnt have a an outstanding receiving core to throw to like Rodgers does.Rodgers has so many weapons to throw to while Rivers really only has Gates so the comparison is kind of unfair.
> 
> The Chargers defense has gone downhill the last couple years as well while The Packers have an excellent defense.You got to remember Rivers had to carry that team on his shoulders this year.He had no running game with the loss of L.T and again the defense is not that great.Put him on the packers squad as the starter with a good coach like Rodgers has, and he would have had them in the superbowl as well this year easily.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rivers is just like Dan Fouts and John Hadyl. Easy to do in San Diego
> 
> Puts up big numbers in the regular season and folds in the playoffs. Until he puts up big numbers in a big game....I count him out
Click to expand...


well to that logic you got to take Dan Marino off the list as well then.Dont remember Hadyl,but he was just like Fouts as well.Every big game he was in,he stunk up the joint and he never won a superbowl,Favre did. Put Rivers and Marino in his prime on that Packers team that Rodgers had this year,they get the same result Rodgers did and thats another Qb I would also take over Favre as well is Fouts.Like Marino,he was a great quarterback in his prime.Also dont forget,Rivers played hurt in that AFC loss against the patriots that year when the pats went 16-0 and undefeated till they lost the superbowl.the three best players of the chargers of that game,Rivers,Gates and L.t were ALL hurt otherwise that game against the 16-0 patriots would have been much closer.


----------



## ginscpy

Montana biggest games were against USC, Texas and Houston.

Had one loss in that series - and that was a crock......................................

Any thing in the NFL was nothing

I recall John Madden saying about Montana whe he went in  to spell Steve DeBerg in a game in 1980:  "He s 
 been in the  areana."


----------



## LA RAM FAN

driveby said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd take any of these guys in their prime before I'd want Favre on my team:
> 
> Tom Brady
> Peyton Manning
> Dan Marino
> John Elway
> Joe Montana
> Jim Kelly
> Drew Brees
> Aaron Rodgers
> Jim McMahon
> Troy Aikman
> Steve Young
> Boomer Esiason
> 
> 
> Seriously, I think Favre is the most overrated professional athlete of all time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just remembered something.How can you leave Ben Rothlesberger off that list? He is the MVP of that team and turned that organization around FINALLY bringing back a superbowl championship to Pittsburgh since Bradshaws days winning two out three for them and was the x factor in the victory against the cardinals. Should have won this last oneas well.His teammates made critical mistakes at the wrong time,they basically beat themselves in that game. I would take Esiason off that list and Put Rothlesbergers name there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why not add Trent Dilfer while you're at it ? ......
Click to expand...


I know your joking putting Big Ben in the same catagory as Trent Dilfer.

That year the Ravens went to the superbowl with Trent Dilfer and the year the bears went to the superbowl with Rex Grossman,are the only two cases in history where a team with a bad quarterback made it to the superbowl because they both had such dominating defenses that teams had an extremely difficult time scoring touchdowns against them,the defense carried those two teams to the superbowl so I KNOW your joking.


----------



## rightwinger

9/11 inside job said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldnt go that far.Rivers isnt quite as good as Favre yet.He's close but not quite there yet.Its going to be a lot tougher for him to get to the superbowl now since those idiots in management got rid of L.T and Norv is just a an average so/so coach.He's got to find a way to get there first before I can rank him as good as Rodgers but he is vey close to being almost as good as Rodgers.You got to remember Rivers doesnt have a an outstanding receiving core to throw to like Rodgers does.Rodgers has so many weapons to throw to while Rivers really only has Gates so the comparison is kind of unfair.
> 
> The Chargers defense has gone downhill the last couple years as well while The Packers have an excellent defense.You got to remember Rivers had to carry that team on his shoulders this year.He had no running game with the loss of L.T and again the defense is not that great.Put him on the packers squad as the starter with a good coach like Rodgers has, and he would have had them in the superbowl as well this year easily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rivers is just like Dan Fouts and John Hadyl. Easy to do in San Diego
> 
> Puts up big numbers in the regular season and folds in the playoffs. Until he puts up big numbers in a big game....I count him out
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> well to that logic you got to take Dan Marino off the list as well then.Dont remember Hadyl,but he was just like Fouts as well.Every big game he was in,he stunk up the joint and he never won a superbowl,Favre did. Put Rivers and Marino in his prime on that Packers team that Rodgers had this year,they get the same result Rodgers did and thats another Qb I would also take over Favre as well is Fouts.Like Marino,he was a great quarterback in his prime.
Click to expand...


Rivers has had some great teams and great chances and folded

How did he lose to the Jets at home?


----------



## driveby

9/11 inside job said:


> driveby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just remembered something.How can you leave Ben Rothlesberger off that list? He is the MVP of that team and turned that organization around FINALLY bringing back a superbowl championship to Pittsburgh since Bradshaws days winning two out three for them and was the x factor in the victory against the cardinals. Should have won this last oneas well.His teammates made critical mistakes at the wrong time,they basically beat themselves in that game. I would take Esiason off that list and Put Rothlesbergers name there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not add Trent Dilfer while you're at it ? ......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know your joking putting Big Ben in the same catagory as Trent Dilfer.
> 
> That year the Ravens went to the superbowl with Trent Dilfer and the year the bears went to the superbowl with Rex Grossman,are the only two cases in history where a team with a bad quarterback made it to the superbowl because they both had such dominating defenses that teams had an extremely difficult time scoring touchdowns against them,the defense carried those two teams to the superbowl so I KNOW your joking.
Click to expand...




The last two SB's Pittsburgh won, the refs performance helped the Stealers more than Jenny Rapistberger's .....


----------



## manifold

9/11 inside job said:


> driveby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just remembered something.How can you leave Ben Rothlesberger off that list? He is the MVP of that team and turned that organization around FINALLY bringing back a superbowl championship to Pittsburgh since Bradshaws days winning two out three for them and was the x factor in the victory against the cardinals. Should have won this last oneas well.His teammates made critical mistakes at the wrong time,they basically beat themselves in that game. I would take Esiason off that list and Put Rothlesbergers name there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not add Trent Dilfer while you're at it ? ......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know your joking putting Big Ben in the same catagory as Trent Dilfer.
> 
> That year the Ravens went to the superbowl with Trent Dilfer and the year the bears went to the superbowl with Rex Grossman,are the only two cases in history where a team with a bad quarterback made it to the superbowl because they both had such dominating defenses that teams had an extremely difficult time scoring touchdowns against them,the defense carried those two teams to the superbowl so I KNOW your joking.
Click to expand...


Who quarterbacked the Tampa Bay team that beat the Raiders in the SB?


----------



## LA RAM FAN

9/11 inside job said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldnt go that far.Rivers isnt quite as good as Favre yet.He's close but not quite there yet.Its going to be a lot tougher for him to get to the superbowl now since those idiots in management got rid of L.T and Norv is just a an average so/so coach.He's got to find a way to get there first before I can rank him as good as Rodgers but he is vey close to being almost as good as Rodgers.You got to remember Rivers doesnt have a an outstanding receiving core to throw to like Rodgers does.Rodgers has so many weapons to throw to while Rivers really only has Gates so the comparison is kind of unfair.
> 
> The Chargers defense has gone downhill the last couple years as well while The Packers have an excellent defense.You got to remember Rivers had to carry that team on his shoulders this year.He had no running game with the loss of L.T and again the defense is not that great.Put him on the packers squad as the starter with a good coach like Rodgers has, and he would have had them in the superbowl as well this year easily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rivers is just like Dan Fouts and John Hadyl. Easy to do in San Diego
> 
> Puts up big numbers in the regular season and folds in the playoffs. Until he puts up big numbers in a big game....I count him out
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> well to that logic you got to take Dan Marino off the list as well then.Dont remember Hadyl,but he was just like Fouts as well.Every big game he was in,he stunk up the joint and he never won a superbowl,Favre did. Put Rivers and Marino in his prime on that Packers team that Rodgers had this year,they get the same result Rodgers did and thats another Qb I would also take over Favre as well is Fouts.Like Marino,he was a great quarterback in his prime.
> 
> Also dont forget,Rivers played hurt in that AFC loss against the patriots that year when the pats went 16-0 and undefeated till they lost the superbowl.the three best players of the chargers of that game,Rivers,Gates and L.t were ALL hurt otherwise that game against the 16-0 patriots would have been much closer.
Click to expand...



added that last paragraph on.How did he lose to the jets at home? Welll that wasnt his best game no doubt but again He isnt ENTIRELY to blame for that loss.Its a team game.The offensive line and others contributed as well.again its not like he was entirely to blame for that loss unlike that QB Dieter Brock of the LA Rams was in that 85 NFC loss to the bears whom that idiot John Robinson loved so much he thought he was a better qb than reliable Jeff Kemp. Being a die hard LA Rams fan,i remember that very well-"hate them the most now since they moved,may that owner suffer and burn in hell for that." or Marc Wilson was the same year in the Raiders first round loss ironically to the patriots that same year as well.

and have you already forgotten that kicker of theirs always chokes in big games? He did that as well another time also when Bree's was their quarterback losing the first round game to the jets back then.you havent all ready forgotten that have you? you cant win close games when your kicker chokes all the time as Brees found out when he was there.

You didnt address Dan Marino though.again if Rivers is a bad quarterback for not putting up big numbers in a big game,then so is Dan Marino.

Thats like saying Rod Carew wasnt one of the greatest baseball players in major league baseball history   because he never made it to the world series.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

rightwinger said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rivers is just like Dan Fouts and John Hadyl. Easy to do in San Diego
> 
> Puts up big numbers in the regular season and folds in the playoffs. Until he puts up big numbers in a big game....I count him out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well to that logic you got to take Dan Marino off the list as well then.Dont remember Hadyl,but he was just like Fouts as well.Every big game he was in,he stunk up the joint and he never won a superbowl,Favre did. Put Rivers and Marino in his prime on that Packers team that Rodgers had this year,they get the same result Rodgers did and thats another Qb I would also take over Favre as well is Fouts.Like Marino,he was a great quarterback in his prime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rivers has had some great teams and great chances and folded
> 
> How did he lose to the Jets at home?
Click to expand...


Just addressed this in my last post since I added on some more to it about Rivers in the last paragraph there.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

manifold said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> driveby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not add Trent Dilfer while you're at it ? ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know your joking putting Big Ben in the same catagory as Trent Dilfer.
> 
> That year the Ravens went to the superbowl with Trent Dilfer and the year the bears went to the superbowl with Rex Grossman,are the only two cases in history where a team with a bad quarterback made it to the superbowl because they both had such dominating defenses that teams had an extremely difficult time scoring touchdowns against them,the defense carried those two teams to the superbowl so I KNOW your joking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who quarterbacked the Tampa Bay team that beat the Raiders in the SB?
Click to expand...


oh yeah.I forgot about Brad Johnson.It can happen where you get to the superbowl with a lousy qb as this was another one of those rare cases.I  now dont fault Dennis Green for demoting Gannon to the bench instead of Johnson.Gannon was pretty much entirely to blame for that loss in the superbowl.He picked the worst possible time to have his worst game ever in his career.All of his interceptions resulted in touchdowns for the bucs,if he had just thrown the ball away at least giving his team a chance,it would have at least been a closer game.Man it took me YEARS to get over that loss.

Not a Raiders fan,just was a Gannon fan then-a friend of mine is firneds with him.man he let me down big time.I have tried to forget that game for years so thats why I forgot that one.Green did know what he was doing making Johnson the starter for the vikings back then and Gannon backing him up.Johnson didnt make the stupid mistakes Gannon did in his biggest game of his life.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

FuelRod said:


> Super Bowls/Championships.



according to YOUR logic then,Dan Marino,Dan Fouts,Jim Kelly,and Fran Tarkenton were not great quaterbacks then.Okay I see.


----------



## Toro

9/11 inside job said:


> driveby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just remembered something.How can you leave Ben Rothlesberger off that list? He is the MVP of that team and turned that organization around FINALLY bringing back a superbowl championship to Pittsburgh since Bradshaws days winning two out three for them and was the x factor in the victory against the cardinals. Should have won this last oneas well.His teammates made critical mistakes at the wrong time,they basically beat themselves in that game. I would take Esiason off that list and Put Rothlesbergers name there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not add Trent Dilfer while you're at it ? ......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know your joking putting Big Ben in the same catagory as Trent Dilfer.
> 
> That year the Ravens went to the superbowl with Trent Dilfer and the year the bears went to the superbowl with Rex Grossman,are the only two cases in history where a team with a bad quarterback made it to the superbowl because they both had such dominating defenses that teams had an extremely difficult time scoring touchdowns against them,the defense carried those two teams to the superbowl so I KNOW your joking.
Click to expand...


Jeff Hostetler won a SB with the Giants, let's remember.


----------



## Big Fitz

The Favre/Rodgers debate is the 2000's answer to the Montana/Young debate.


----------



## rightwinger

9/11 inside job said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> well to that logic you got to take Dan Marino off the list as well then.Dont remember Hadyl,but he was just like Fouts as well.Every big game he was in,he stunk up the joint and he never won a superbowl,Favre did. Put Rivers and Marino in his prime on that Packers team that Rodgers had this year,they get the same result Rodgers did and thats another Qb I would also take over Favre as well is Fouts.Like Marino,he was a great quarterback in his prime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rivers has had some great teams and great chances and folded
> 
> How did he lose to the Jets at home?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just addressed this in my last post since I added on some more to it about Rivers in the last paragraph there.
Click to expand...


OK. Then where is Rivers signature victory?

Any QB can put up big numbers in San Diego


----------



## Toro

rightwinger said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rivers has had some great teams and great chances and folded
> 
> How did he lose to the Jets at home?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just addressed this in my last post since I added on some more to it about Rivers in the last paragraph there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK. Then where is Rivers signature victory?
> 
> Any QB can put up big numbers in San Diego
Click to expand...


Nonsense.

At times this season, the Chargers first _five_ starting receivers were out injured.  Rivers is the Chargers.

And Rivers played in the AFC Championship, losing to the then 17-0 New England Patriots with Tomlinson on the bench.


----------



## ginscpy

Big Fitz said:


> The Favre/Rodgers debate is the 2000's answer to the Montana/Young debate.



Except there wasn't any so-called   "Montana/Young" debate in SF.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

rightwinger said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rivers has had some great teams and great chances and folded
> 
> How did he lose to the Jets at home?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just addressed this in my last post since I added on some more to it about Rivers in the last paragraph there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK. Then where is Rivers signature victory?
> 
> Any QB can put up big numbers in San Diego
Click to expand...


I'll answer that when YOU answer this question that I have to ask you now for the THIRD time which is since Rivers is like Marino,puts up big numbers but hasnt won the big game yet,how is it okay for Marino to be up there on that list of Qb's better than Favre but Rivers cant be up there.cant have it both ways,either both Rivers and Marino are not better than Favre,or they are both better than he is,which one,is Marino now off that list? Marino doesnt have his signiture victory yet either.and I got to repeeat for you again,that according to your logic,Rod carew is not one of the best baseball players ever either since he never made it to the wolrd series. dude think about what you have been saying in all your posts.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

rightwinger said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rivers has had some great teams and great chances and folded
> 
> How did he lose to the Jets at home?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just addressed this in my last post since I added on some more to it about Rivers in the last paragraph there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK. Then where is Rivers signature victory?
> 
> Any QB can put up big numbers in San Diego
Click to expand...


I'll answer that when YOU answer this question that I have to ask you now for the THIRD time which is since Rivers is like Marino,puts up big numbers but hasnt won the big game yet,how is it okay for Marino to be up there on that list of Qb's better than Favre but Rivers cant be up there.cant have it both ways,either both Rivers and Marino are not better than Favre,or they are both better than he is,which one,is Marino now off that list? Marino doesnt have his signature victory yet either.and I got to repeeat for you again,that according to your logic,Rod carew is not one of the best baseball players ever either since he never made it to the world series. dude think about what you have been saying in all your posts.


----------



## rightwinger

9/11 inside job said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just addressed this in my last post since I added on some more to it about Rivers in the last paragraph there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK. Then where is Rivers signature victory?
> 
> Any QB can put up big numbers in San Diego
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll answer that when YOU answer this question that I have to ask you now for the THIRD time which is since Rivers is like Marino,puts up big numbers but hasnt won the big game yet,how is it okay for Marino to be up there on that list of Qb's better than Favre but Rivers cant be up there.cant have it both ways,either both Rivers and Marino are not better than Favre,or they are both better than he is,which one,is Marino now off that list? Marino doesnt have his signature victory yet either.and I got to repeeat for you again,that according to your logic,Rod carew is not one of the best baseball players ever either since he never made it to the world series. dude think about what you have been saying in all your posts.
Click to expand...


Rivers is not comparable to Marino. He is the latest incarnation of Dan Fouts and John Hadl. San Diego QBs who put up awesome numbers and couldn't win in the play offs. Big passing numbers come with playing in San Diego. So does failing in the play offs

Rod Carew is not an all time great. He is not even top 20. Singles hitter who got 3000 hits. Since we are talking San Diego, Tony Gwynn was much better than Carew


----------



## candycorn

rightwinger said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK. Then where is Rivers signature victory?
> 
> Any QB can put up big numbers in San Diego
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll answer that when YOU answer this question that I have to ask you now for the THIRD time which is since Rivers is like Marino,puts up big numbers but hasnt won the big game yet,how is it okay for Marino to be up there on that list of Qb's better than Favre but Rivers cant be up there.cant have it both ways,either both Rivers and Marino are not better than Favre,or they are both better than he is,which one,is Marino now off that list? Marino doesnt have his signature victory yet either.and I got to repeeat for you again,that according to your logic,Rod carew is not one of the best baseball players ever either since he never made it to the world series. dude think about what you have been saying in all your posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rivers is not comparable to Marino. He is the latest incarnation of Dan Fouts and John Hadl. San Diego QBs who put up awesome numbers and couldn't win in the play offs. Big passing numbers come with playing in San Diego. So does failing in the play offs
> 
> Rod Carew is not an all time great. He is not even top 20. Singles hitter who got 3000 hits. Since we are talking San Diego, Tony Gwynn was much better than Carew
Click to expand...


I tell ya, 

Same clown;
Different circus. 

Phil Rivers wasn't even the starting QB until Brees was traded.  

Marino started every year of his storied career; heres a sampling...
Awards 
1984 NFL AP MVP 
1984 NFL PFWA MVP 
1984 NFL Newspaper Ent. Assoc. MVP 
1984 NFL Bert Bell Award (Player of the Year) 
1984 NFL AP Offensive Player of the Year 
1994 NFL AP Comeback Player of the Year 
1998 NFL Walter Payton Man of the Year

Pro Bowls  (Back when every single 1st string player wasn't bowing out and it meant something)
1983 
1984 
1985 
1986 
1987 
1991 
1992 
1994 
1995

Passer Rating 
1983 NFL 96.0 (3) 
1984 NFL 108.9 (1) 
1985 NFL 84.1 (5) 
1986 NFL 92.5 (2) 
1987 NFL 89.2 (4) 
1988 NFL 80.8 (10) 
1990 NFL 82.6 (8) 
1991 NFL 85.8 (7) 
1992 NFL 85.1 (7) 
1994 NFL 89.2 (3) 
1995 NFL 90.8 (8) 
1996 NFL 87.8 (6) 

Passing TD 
1984 NFL 48 (1) 
1985 NFL 30 (1) 
1986 NFL 44 (1) 
1987 NFL 26 (2) 
1988 NFL 28 (2) 
1989 NFL 24 (6) 
1990 NFL 21 (8) 
1991 NFL 25 (4) 
1992 NFL 24 (2) 
1994 NFL 30 (3) 
1995 NFL 24 (8) 
1996 NFL 17 (10) 
1998 NFL 23 (7) 
*Career 420 (2)*

420 Freaking touchdown passes.  Yeah Phil Rivers dreams of being 1/2 the player Marino was.


----------



## Montrovant

Montana may be the greatest QB of the SB era, but I find it hard to argue against Otto Graham as the greatest of all time.  In 10 professional seasons (4 with the AAFL, 6 with the NFL) he went to 10 championship games, and won 7.  He even played a season of professional basketball, and won a championship!  His record as a starting QB was 57-13-1, which I believe is still the best winning percentage ever.

It's hard to compare such different eras of football, but that kind of success is unrivaled.


----------



## rightwinger

Montrovant said:


> Montana may be the greatest QB of the SB era, but I find it hard to argue against Otto Graham as the greatest of all time.  In 10 professional seasons (4 with the AAFL, 6 with the NFL) he went to 10 championship games, and won 7.  He even played a season of professional basketball, and won a championship!  His record as a starting QB was 57-13-1, which I believe is still the best winning percentage ever.
> 
> It's hard to compare such different eras of football, but that kind of success is unrivaled.



You are right.....It is hard to compare different eras.

Otto Graham won wherever he played and was a great leader. But one thing you have to remember is the NFL had two divisions and ten teams. Once you won your division you played one game to win the championship. 
Now you have to win the division (or wildcard) then win three (or four) games against playoff quality teams to win the Superbowl. You have to beat out thirty one other teams rather than nine other teams. It is a lot harder


----------



## LA RAM FAN

rightwinger said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK. Then where is Rivers signature victory?
> 
> Any QB can put up big numbers in San Diego
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll answer that when YOU answer this question that I have to ask you now for the THIRD time which is since Rivers is like Marino,puts up big numbers but hasnt won the big game yet,how is it okay for Marino to be up there on that list of Qb's better than Favre but Rivers cant be up there.cant have it both ways,either both Rivers and Marino are not better than Favre,or they are both better than he is,which one,is Marino now off that list? Marino doesnt have his signature victory yet either.and I got to repeeat for you again,that according to your logic,Rod carew is not one of the best baseball players ever either since he never made it to the world series. dude think about what you have been saying in all your posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rivers is not comparable to Marino. He is the latest incarnation of Dan Fouts and John Hadl. San Diego QBs who put up awesome numbers and couldn't win in the play offs. Big passing numbers come with playing in San Diego. So does failing in the play offs
> 
> Rod Carew is not an all time great. He is not even top 20. Singles hitter who got 3000 hits. Since we are talking San Diego, Tony Gwynn was much better than Carew
Click to expand...


You really  need to get off this san diego trip.Rivers has won some playoff games so whats your point? Your the one that keeps talking about putting up big numbers but cant win the big game so AGAIN,Marino is in the same boat as Rivers is if you are going to keep saying he isnt as good as Rodgers for not winning the superbowl.

and you got to be joking about Carew,he is easily an all time great.maybe not in the top 20 but for sure in the top 30 which is still a great accomplishment..One of the best clutch  hitters ever.again you need to get off this san diego trip thing,but since you bring up Gwynn,he wasnt that great a hitter either then according to you since he never made it to the world series. this is really  getting tiresome going round and round with you on this.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Toro said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just addressed this in my last post since I added on some more to it about Rivers in the last paragraph there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK. Then where is Rivers signature victory?
> 
> Any QB can put up big numbers in San Diego
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> At times this season, the Chargers first _five_ starting receivers were out injured.  Rivers is the Chargers.
> 
> And Rivers played in the AFC Championship, losing to the then 17-0 New England Patriots with Tomlinson on the bench.
Click to expand...


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Montrovant said:


> Montana may be the greatest QB of the SB era, but I find it hard to argue against Otto Graham as the greatest of all time.  In 10 professional seasons (4 with the AAFL, 6 with the NFL) he went to 10 championship games, and won 7.  He even played a season of professional basketball, and won a championship!  His record as a starting QB was 57-13-1, which I believe is still the best winning percentage ever.
> 
> It's hard to compare such different eras of football, but that kind of success is unrivaled.



agreed.I think he is the best modern day quarterback to have played the game but yeah its hard to compare to the all time greats.Yeah I would say Otto Graham and Johnny Unitas are probably the best "all time greats."


----------



## rightwinger

9/11 inside job said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll answer that when YOU answer this question that I have to ask you now for the THIRD time which is since Rivers is like Marino,puts up big numbers but hasnt won the big game yet,how is it okay for Marino to be up there on that list of Qb's better than Favre but Rivers cant be up there.cant have it both ways,either both Rivers and Marino are not better than Favre,or they are both better than he is,which one,is Marino now off that list? Marino doesnt have his signature victory yet either.and I got to repeeat for you again,that according to your logic,Rod carew is not one of the best baseball players ever either since he never made it to the world series. dude think about what you have been saying in all your posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rivers is not comparable to Marino. He is the latest incarnation of Dan Fouts and John Hadl. San Diego QBs who put up awesome numbers and couldn't win in the play offs. Big passing numbers come with playing in San Diego. So does failing in the play offs
> 
> Rod Carew is not an all time great. He is not even top 20. Singles hitter who got 3000 hits. Since we are talking San Diego, Tony Gwynn was much better than Carew
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You really  need to get off this san diego trip.Rivers has won some playoff games so whats your point? Your the one that keeps talking about putting up big numbers but cant win the big game so AGAIN,Marino is in the same boat as Rivers is if you are going to keep saying he isnt as good as Rodgers for not winning the superbowl.
> 
> and you got to be joking about Carew,he is easily an all time great.maybe not in the top 20 but for sure in the top 30 which is still a great accomplishment..One of the best clutch  hitters ever.again you need to get off this san diego trip thing,but since you bring up Gwynn,he wasnt that great a hitter either then according to you since he never made it to the world series. this is really  getting tiresome going round and round with you on this.
Click to expand...


Rivers is a very good QB. There is one thing holding him back from being an all time great QB....He never led his team to a championship. More than a first baseman who gets five plate appearances a game, A QB touches the ball on every snap. He is the one, fairly or not, who is judged on "winning the big one"
Over time, Rivers may put up numbers comparable to Marino. Maybe win an MVP. But like Marino, he would be considered a very, very good QB, but not an all time great

Marino had better skills than Montana, Staubach, Elway, Bradshaw but never had that huge highlight in a big game to be his signature play. Rivers is in the same boat


----------



## driveby

rightwinger said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rivers is not comparable to Marino. He is the latest incarnation of Dan Fouts and John Hadl. San Diego QBs who put up awesome numbers and couldn't win in the play offs. Big passing numbers come with playing in San Diego. So does failing in the play offs
> 
> Rod Carew is not an all time great. He is not even top 20. Singles hitter who got 3000 hits. Since we are talking San Diego, Tony Gwynn was much better than Carew
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really  need to get off this san diego trip.Rivers has won some playoff games so whats your point? Your the one that keeps talking about putting up big numbers but cant win the big game so AGAIN,Marino is in the same boat as Rivers is if you are going to keep saying he isnt as good as Rodgers for not winning the superbowl.
> 
> and you got to be joking about Carew,he is easily an all time great.maybe not in the top 20 but for sure in the top 30 which is still a great accomplishment..One of the best clutch  hitters ever.again you need to get off this san diego trip thing,but since you bring up Gwynn,he wasnt that great a hitter either then according to you since he never made it to the world series. this is really  getting tiresome going round and round with you on this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rivers is a very good QB. There is one thing holding him back from being an all time great QB....He never led his team to a championship. More than a first baseman who gets five plate appearances a game, A QB touches the ball on every snap. He is the one, fairly or not, who is judged on "winning the big one"
> Over time, Rivers may put up numbers comparable to Marino. Maybe win an MVP. But like Marino, he would be considered a very, very good QB, but not an all time great
> 
> Marino had better skills than Montana, Staubach, Elway, Bradshaw but never had that huge highlight in a big game to be his signature play. Rivers is in the same boat
Click to expand...



You mean Marino was a better pure passer?


----------



## manifold

Marino covered up a lot of really shitty reads on account of being the most accurate passer to ever play the game.  But make no mistake about it, had he been able to read a defense as well as Montana or Brady, he'd probably have about 5 SB rings.


----------



## driveby

*** Pass just off the fingertips of Mark Duper, meanwhile, back in the huddle ***

Marino:  "Why the fuck didn't you catch that?, It hit your hands, you should have caught it!"

Duper:  "Fuck you, you make all the money, hit me in the numbers!"


True story .....


----------



## rightwinger

driveby said:


> *** Pass just off the fingertips of Mark Duper, meanwhile, back in the huddle ***
> 
> Marino:  "Why the fuck didn't you catch that?, It hit your hands, you should have caught it!"
> 
> Duper:  "Fuck you, you make all the money, hit me in the numbers!"
> 
> 
> True story .....



LOL

He has a point


----------



## candycorn

rightwinger said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rivers is not comparable to Marino. He is the latest incarnation of Dan Fouts and John Hadl. San Diego QBs who put up awesome numbers and couldn't win in the play offs. Big passing numbers come with playing in San Diego. So does failing in the play offs
> 
> Rod Carew is not an all time great. He is not even top 20. Singles hitter who got 3000 hits. Since we are talking San Diego, Tony Gwynn was much better than Carew
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really  need to get off this san diego trip.Rivers has won some playoff games so whats your point? Your the one that keeps talking about putting up big numbers but cant win the big game so AGAIN,Marino is in the same boat as Rivers is if you are going to keep saying he isnt as good as Rodgers for not winning the superbowl.
> 
> and you got to be joking about Carew,he is easily an all time great.maybe not in the top 20 but for sure in the top 30 which is still a great accomplishment..One of the best clutch  hitters ever.again you need to get off this san diego trip thing,but since you bring up Gwynn,he wasnt that great a hitter either then according to you since he never made it to the world series. this is really  getting tiresome going round and round with you on this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rivers is a very good QB. There is one thing holding him back from being an all time great QB....He never led his team to a championship. More than a first baseman who gets five plate appearances a game, A QB touches the ball on every snap. He is the one, fairly or not, who is judged on "winning the big one"
> Over time, Rivers may put up numbers comparable to Marino. Maybe win an MVP. But like Marino, he would be considered a very, very good QB, but not an all time great
> 
> Marino had better skills than Montana, Staubach, Elway, Bradshaw but never had that huge highlight in a big game to be his signature play. Rivers is in the same boat
Click to expand...


I don't think Rivers would have survived in the league during the era of Those guys you mentioned when you could really lay the lumber to receivers, bump and run, stick 'em, and what have you.  Not his fault he wasn't playing back then.  As for today, I'd take him in a fantasy draft but if I were building a team; he'd not be my first or second choice.  

I remember Marino  having a release that was textbook and accuracy that was almost video-gamish.  Nobody will make that analogy for Rivers--for the time being.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

rightwinger said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rivers is not comparable to Marino. He is the latest incarnation of Dan Fouts and John Hadl. San Diego QBs who put up awesome numbers and couldn't win in the play offs. Big passing numbers come with playing in San Diego. So does failing in the play offs
> 
> Rod Carew is not an all time great. He is not even top 20. Singles hitter who got 3000 hits. Since we are talking San Diego, Tony Gwynn was much better than Carew
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really  need to get off this san diego trip.Rivers has won some playoff games so whats your point? Your the one that keeps talking about putting up big numbers but cant win the big game so AGAIN,Marino is in the same boat as Rivers is if you are going to keep saying he isnt as good as Rodgers for not winning the superbowl.
> 
> and you got to be joking about Carew,he is easily an all time great.maybe not in the top 20 but for sure in the top 30 which is still a great accomplishment..One of the best clutch  hitters ever.again you need to get off this san diego trip thing,but since you bring up Gwynn,he wasnt that great a hitter either then according to you since he never made it to the world series. this is really  getting tiresome going round and round with you on this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rivers is a very good QB. There is one thing holding him back from being an all time great QB....He never led his team to a championship. More than a first baseman who gets five plate appearances a game, A QB touches the ball on every snap. He is the one, fairly or not, who is judged on "winning the big one"
> Over time, Rivers may put up numbers comparable to Marino. Maybe win an MVP. But like Marino, he would be considered a very, very good QB, but not an all time great
> 
> Marino had better skills than Montana, Staubach, Elway, Bradshaw but never had that huge highlight in a big game to be his signature play. Rivers is in the same boat
Click to expand...


Yeah but you keep missing the point that its a TEAM game,that a quarterback cant win the game entirely by himself.Those people that say a quarterback is not great because he doesnt win the big one are idiots.Like I said before,if they go by that logic then they would have to say that Jim Kelly and Fran Tarkenton are not great quarterbacks.

Is it Rivers fault that Nate Kaeding choked in that playoff game against the jets and missed that easy field goal in the final minutes? Tom Brady if he had Kaeding for a field goal kicker all those years,he never would have won those 3 superbowls in the fact that they were all decided by a field goal.Only difference is that his field goal kicker he had those years was one of the  most accurate field goal kickers in NFL history and WOULD make those clutch kicks. Drew Brees got wise by leaving the chargers.He would probably  still be  stuck with no superbowl ring if he stayed.Kaeding cost HIM a chance of going to the superbowl when he was with the chargers when Kaeding choked back then in a field goal attempt again in the final minutes which ironically was against the jets as well remember? Seems like facing the jets in a playoff game makes kaeding choke.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

manifold said:


> Marino covered up a lot of really shitty reads on account of being the most accurate passer to ever play the game.  But make no mistake about it, had he been able to read a defense as well as Montana or Brady, he'd probably have about 5 SB rings.



yeah that was what kept him from making it back to the superbowl was he wasnt very good at reading defenses like Montana,Brady or Manning.thats why he always stunk it up in the playoffs every year after that.


----------



## rightwinger

Enough on Rivers already.  The guy is a good QB and will in all probability win a championship eventually. When he does, we can discuss how he stacks up with the all time greats. 

Until then, Joe Montana is still the best QB of all time in big games.


----------



## JamesInFlorida

What is it with the hype of Rivers? He's a good QB-but somehow he gets really overrated (not just on here). I still take Brady, P. Manning, Roethlisberger, Brees, Vick (and I think he's very overrated) and Rodgers over him any day.

Rivers may be the best QB in the NFL right now without a ring, I guess it can be debated-but even if he won a ring, he'd still be at the bottom among current superbowl winning QBs, with only Eli not being as good as him.


----------



## candycorn

JamesInFlorida said:


> What is it with the hype of Rivers? He's a good QB-but somehow he gets really overrated (not just on here). I still take Brady, P. Manning, Roethlisberger, Brees, Vick (and I think he's very overrated) and Rodgers over him any day.
> 
> Rivers may be the best QB in the NFL right now without a ring, I guess it can be debated-but even if he won a ring, he'd still be at the bottom among current superbowl winning QBs, with only Eli not being as good as him.



Its unlikely; The AFC West is notorious for teams not playing defense.  Denver was outscored by 127 points in 16 games.  Scientists tell us that is something like 8 points per game.  And San Diego got to play them twice.  

The strength of schedule bottom dwellers according to pro-football-reference.com:

Denver Broncos	       
Oakland Raiders 	
San Diego Chargers	
Kansas City Chiefs

They all played each other twice.  Not surprisingly, KC made the playoffs; the easiest schedule in the AFC.

River's success is well deserved; he doesn't make the schedule and he doesn't pick his spots.  He isn't overly blessed with a once-in-a-generation wide receiver (unless you count Gates).  But really, what quarterback in 2010 does have a Jerry Rice as a target?  

His success should not also be confused with him being a world beater.  In the weakest division in the AFC, his team didn't make the playoffs.  Not a ringing endorsement.  

I don't think Vick would be ahead of Rivers but I'm comfortable with the rest of your list.  I'd probably add Ryan.


----------



## rightwinger

Rivers will get his chances. SD is still a strong team in a weak division

Just needs to step it up in the playoffs. He has been a noshow so far

Losing to the Jets at home?


----------



## JimH52

You are wrong.  Peyton Manning is the best QB to even stand behind center.  If he stays healthy, he will break every record in the book.  And I am not a Colts fan.


----------



## candycorn

I'm not sure who I'd put on my Mt. Rushmore of all time greatest QBs.  With quarterbacks, I think there are some intangibles that require your having seen them play, appreciating their situation, and ultimately factoring those intangibles into a group of subjective data that adds or subtracts from the decision.

For example, I don't think Steve Young is worthy of being on my Mt. Rushmore of 4 greatest QBs?  Why?  He never started until Montana left.  He would have likely started for 27 other football teams but the point is; he didn't.  Fate!

If you look at passing yards alone, Drew Bledsoe is #8 all time with 44,611 yards. Anybody want to put him in their Top 10 based on that objective data alone?  

I would definitely put Montana on there.  Along with Marino, Elway, and Brady.  Obviously, I think the best active QB is Tom Brady who is just a machine when it comes to performing on the field.  

Theres room for more on the mountain for more but if you're going with a top 4 of all time in the last 40 years or so; I think you can't do much better than these gentlemen.


----------



## rightwinger

candycorn said:


> I'm not sure who I'd put on my Mt. Rushmore of all time greatest QBs.  With quarterbacks, I think there are some intangibles that require your having seen them play, appreciating their situation, and ultimately factoring those intangibles into a group of subjective data that adds or subtracts from the decision.
> 
> For example, I don't think Steve Young is worthy of being on my Mt. Rushmore of 4 greatest QBs?  Why?  He never started until Montana left.  He would have likely started for 27 other football teams but the point is; he didn't.  Fate!
> 
> If you look at passing yards alone, Drew Bledsoe is #8 all time with 44,611 yards. Anybody want to put him in their Top 10 based on that objective data alone?
> 
> I would definitely put Montana on there.  Along with Marino, Elway, and Brady.  Obviously, I think the best active QB is Tom Brady who is just a machine when it comes to performing on the field.
> 
> Theres room for more on the mountain for more but if you're going with a top 4 of all time in the last 40 years or so; I think you can't do much better than these gentlemen.



I would find room for Peyton Manning


----------



## rightwinger

If we want to go Old School

1. Johnny Unitas
2. Otto Graham
3. Sammy Baugh
4. Bart Starr


----------



## FuelRod

What consideration is being giving to statistics vs. championships?


----------



## candycorn

rightwinger said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure who I'd put on my Mt. Rushmore of all time greatest QBs.  With quarterbacks, I think there are some intangibles that require your having seen them play, appreciating their situation, and ultimately factoring those intangibles into a group of subjective data that adds or subtracts from the decision.
> 
> For example, I don't think Steve Young is worthy of being on my Mt. Rushmore of 4 greatest QBs?  Why?  He never started until Montana left.  He would have likely started for 27 other football teams but the point is; he didn't.  Fate!
> 
> If you look at passing yards alone, Drew Bledsoe is #8 all time with 44,611 yards. Anybody want to put him in their Top 10 based on that objective data alone?
> 
> I would definitely put Montana on there.  Along with Marino, Elway, and Brady.  Obviously, I think the best active QB is Tom Brady who is just a machine when it comes to performing on the field.
> 
> Theres room for more on the mountain for more but if you're going with a top 4 of all time in the last 40 years or so; I think you can't do much better than these gentlemen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would find room for Peyton Manning
Click to expand...


Peyton Manning....wow; I would feel very comfortable with him as my quarterback any day of the week.  I think if Mount Rushmore had 5 heads, Peyton's may well be there....but let me ask you this; is he better than Brady?  I don't think so--just my personal opinion.  If you're not the best QB in the league when you played; I don't think your mug goes up there.  Just a subjective choice on my part.


----------



## candycorn

rightwinger said:


> If we want to go Old School
> 
> 1. Johnny Unitas
> 2. Otto Graham
> 3. Sammy Baugh
> 4. Bart Starr



Can't comment; didn't see any of them really play.  As I said earlier, I think when judging a QB, you have to take into account some intangibles that you don't really have to take into account when you're picking the greatest pitchers or basketball players or cornerbacks.  Theres leadership for sure but I go more into the era.  Joe Montana did his business when the books were more evenly balanced between the offense and defense.  Lester Hayes used to do things to receivers that would get you arrested today. I have a slightly more jaundiced view of today's QBs who get all sorts of benefits from the referees.  Michael Irvin spent 1/2 the game pushing off of his defenders.  

I'm sure that the guys you mentioned above would be licking their chops to get out there today when you can't touch a wide receiver.  Can you imagine Kellen Winslow or Ozzie Newsome  in today's NFL?  They'd be unstoppable!


----------



## rightwinger

candycorn said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we want to go Old School
> 
> 1. Johnny Unitas
> 2. Otto Graham
> 3. Sammy Baugh
> 4. Bart Starr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't comment; didn't see any of them really play.  As I said earlier, I think when judging a QB, you have to take into account some intangibles that you don't really have to take into account when you're picking the greatest pitchers or basketball players or cornerbacks.  Theres leadership for sure but I go more into the era.  Joe Montana did his business when the books were more evenly balanced between the offense and defense.  Lester Hayes used to do things to receivers that would get you arrested today. I have a slightly more jaundiced view of today's QBs who get all sorts of benefits from the referees.  Michael Irvin spent 1/2 the game pushing off of his defenders.
> 
> I'm sure that the guys you mentioned above would be licking their chops to get out there today when you can't touch a wide receiver.  Can you imagine Kellen Winslow or Ozzie Newsome  in today's NFL?  They'd be unstoppable!
Click to expand...


No doubt you can't compare between eras. QBs are pampered now, so are the receivers....makes for some big passing numbers

A QB has to lead. You can have a million dollar arm but if you have a ten cent brain you will never go anywhere. You also have to have heart. Joe Montana had the most heart of any QB I ever saw....just a will to win

A QB also has to run the offense he is asked to run. If it is a run first and pass later offense, his numbers will not be as good. But if he wins...who cares?


----------



## JamesInFlorida

candycorn said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure who I'd put on my Mt. Rushmore of all time greatest QBs.  With quarterbacks, I think there are some intangibles that require your having seen them play, appreciating their situation, and ultimately factoring those intangibles into a group of subjective data that adds or subtracts from the decision.
> 
> For example, I don't think Steve Young is worthy of being on my Mt. Rushmore of 4 greatest QBs?  Why?  He never started until Montana left.  He would have likely started for 27 other football teams but the point is; he didn't.  Fate!
> 
> If you look at passing yards alone, Drew Bledsoe is #8 all time with 44,611 yards. Anybody want to put him in their Top 10 based on that objective data alone?
> 
> I would definitely put Montana on there.  Along with Marino, Elway, and Brady.  Obviously, I think the best active QB is Tom Brady who is just a machine when it comes to performing on the field.
> 
> Theres room for more on the mountain for more but if you're going with a top 4 of all time in the last 40 years or so; I think you can't do much better than these gentlemen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would find room for Peyton Manning
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Peyton Manning....wow; I would feel very comfortable with him as my quarterback any day of the week.  I think if Mount Rushmore had 5 heads, Peyton's may well be there....but let me ask you this; is he better than Brady?  I don't think so--just my personal opinion.  If you're not the best QB in the league when you played; I don't think your mug goes up there.  Just a subjective choice on my part.
Click to expand...


I think Manning's better than Brady.He's able to adapt and react to plays/games better than Brady. But you certainly can make the argument either way. They're both the top 2 QBs in the game right now-I think it just depends on who you prefer.


----------



## BolshevikHunter

JamesInFlorida said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would find room for Peyton Manning
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peyton Manning....wow; I would feel very comfortable with him as my quarterback any day of the week.  I think if Mount Rushmore had 5 heads, Peyton's may well be there....but let me ask you this; is he better than Brady?  I don't think so--just my personal opinion.  If you're not the best QB in the league when you played; I don't think your mug goes up there.  Just a subjective choice on my part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think Manning's better than Brady.He's able to adapt and react to plays/games better than Brady. But you certainly can make the argument either way. They're both the top 2 QBs in the game right now-I think it just depends on who you prefer.
Click to expand...


Yep, Manning's stats bury Brady's. Manning has done so much without a decent running game, and with no name guys at WR. Without a doubt recently. I will give credit to Brady for the Superbowls under his belt, Montana as well who I think is top 3, even though he had the best WR ever. However, I think when it's all said and done, Manning will go down as the best ever. Anyone who understands the game of Football and that position understands this fact. ~BH


----------



## Gunny

ginscpy said:


> tell me  im wrong



You're wrong.  Feel better?

Joe Montana had a team built around his style.  Archie Manning could have done wonders with what Joe had.  

There is no "best QB ever".


----------



## manifold

BolshevikHunter said:


> Manning has done so much without a decent running game, and with *no name guys at WR*.



Exactly! No name future hall of famers like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne. 


Clearly you're too ignorant on this subject to add any value to the debate.  No offense.


----------



## Gunny

manifold said:


> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manning has done so much without a decent running game, and with *no name guys at WR*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly! No name future hall of famers like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne.
> 
> 
> Clearly you're too ignorant on this subject to add any value to the debate.  No offense.
Click to expand...


Don't forget Walt Suggs, guard for the Houston Oilers circa 1969.


----------



## HUGGY

Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick!


----------



## candycorn

JamesInFlorida said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would find room for Peyton Manning
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peyton Manning....wow; I would feel very comfortable with him as my quarterback any day of the week.  I think if Mount Rushmore had 5 heads, Peyton's may well be there....but let me ask you this; is he better than Brady?  I don't think so--just my personal opinion.  If you're not the best QB in the league when you played; I don't think your mug goes up there.  Just a subjective choice on my part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think Manning's better than Brady.He's able to adapt and react to plays/games better than Brady. But you certainly can make the argument either way. They're both the top 2 QBs in the game right now-I think it just depends on who you prefer.
Click to expand...


That is pretty much the argument I'm making.  One thing I will say about Tom Brady is that he obviously wasn't blessed with Mannings' genes and, if you're looking past the results into the intangibles; theres something to be said, I think for being drafted in the 6th round, coming in as a back-up and then making everybody forget about Drew Bledsoe who was thought of, at the time, as the prototype QB.  

Like I said, if Mt. Rushmore had 5 faces on it, I'd feel comfortable with Manning's mug being up there because he is arguably the best QB of his time at his peak.  That is my first hurdle; when you're at your peak, you have to be the best QB in the game to be considered one of the best of all time.  I do feel that Elway, Montana, Marino, and Brady fit that bill; I'm not sure Manning does.  Maybe; its arguable.


----------



## candycorn

manifold said:


> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manning has done so much without a decent running game, and with *no name guys at WR*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly! No name future hall of famers like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne.
> 
> 
> Clearly you're too ignorant on this subject to add any value to the debate.  No offense.
Click to expand...


Wayne is going to have to kick it up a notch to get considered for the HOF.  Harrison is a shoe-in.


----------



## candycorn

BolshevikHunter said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Peyton Manning....wow; I would feel very comfortable with him as my quarterback any day of the week.  I think if Mount Rushmore had 5 heads, Peyton's may well be there....but let me ask you this; is he better than Brady?  I don't think so--just my personal opinion.  If you're not the best QB in the league when you played; I don't think your mug goes up there.  Just a subjective choice on my part.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think Manning's better than Brady.He's able to adapt and react to plays/games better than Brady. But you certainly can make the argument either way. They're both the top 2 QBs in the game right now-I think it just depends on who you prefer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep, Manning's stats bury Brady's. Manning has done so much without a decent running game, and with no name guys at WR. Without a doubt recently. I will give credit to Brady for the Superbowls under his belt, Montana as well who I think is top 3, even though he had the best WR ever. However, I think when it's all said and done, Manning will go down as the best ever. Anyone who understands the game of Football and that position understands this fact. ~BH
Click to expand...


I doubt that.  Curious....Favre has the most yards ever...why isn't he the GOAT in your mind?


----------



## spectrumc01

ginscpy said:


> tell me  im wrong



I agree he is the best so far but what criteria did you use to determine this?


----------



## rightwinger

While many people point out that Montana had Jerry Rice, they forget that John Taylor was his go to receiver. It was the west coast offense that made Montana great. Roger Craig coming out of the backfield kept the drives going
Montana was not the most skilled QB, but he had the heart and cool head of a winner. You saw it at Notre Dame and you saw it emerge at San Fran.  Even with KC at the end of his career you could see the Montana spark


----------



## LA RAM FAN

rightwinger said:


> While many people point out that Montana had Jerry Rice, they forget that John Taylor was his go to receiver. It was the west coast offense that made Montana great. Roger Craig coming out of the backfield kept the drives going
> Montana was not the most skilled QB, but he had the heart and cool head of a winner. You saw it at Notre Dame and you saw it emerge at San Fran.  Even with KC at the end of his career you could see the Montana spark



Montana was the greatest modern day quarterback because there was nobody better at being cool under pressure.When he started out in san fran,he had no running game.Roger Craig hadnt arrived yet and his best receiver was Dwight Clark.Yeah he still had his magic even in the twilight of his career with K.C.Because of him,they went to their first AFC title game in 24 years and they did it because of his cool presence in the pocket.I was at that wild card game against the steelers.Another quarterback might have panicked being fourth down and five with just a few seconds left in the game to tie it up to send it to overtime.But not cool Joe.I'll never forget his touchdown pass to Keith Cash that tied it up and went into overtime which allaoed them to then got on and beat the oilers the next week and finally make it back to the AFC title game after 24 years.

Montana made his presence in Kc felt immediately.cash and his fellow recievers were not all that good but Montana is one of those players who makes everybody around them better than what they really are.after Montana left,Cash and his other receivers Birden and davis,their talents faded away and you never heard anything about them again.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

HUGGY said:


> Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick! Vick!



what a great society we are where a murderer gets to come back and play football again.the NFL is such a joke I hope we do have a strike this year.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

rightwinger said:


> Rivers will get his chances. SD is still a strong team in a weak division
> 
> Just needs to step it up in the playoffs. He has been a noshow so far
> 
> Losing to the Jets at home?



which AGAIN is the the fault of Nate "the choker" Kaeting.  cant even make an easy chip shot filed goal which was like an extra point attempt which would given the chargers the victory? Missing THREE field goals,two of them being easy chip shots? whats up with that? I cant believe those idiots in the front office brought back that choker.

Like i said,he cost Brees and the chargers a chance to go further in the playoffs years ago against the jets as well when Brees was with the chargers.cant win playoff games when your field goal kicker is choking on easy chip shot filed goals.Just ask Rivers and Brees.


----------



## candycorn

rightwinger said:


> While many people point out that Montana had Jerry Rice, they forget that John Taylor was his go to receiver. It was the west coast offense that made Montana great. Roger Craig coming out of the backfield kept the drives going
> Montana was not the most skilled QB, but he had the heart and cool head of a winner. You saw it at Notre Dame and you saw it emerge at San Fran.  Even with KC at the end of his career you could see the Montana spark



100% absolutely correct.


----------



## BolshevikHunter

manifold said:


> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manning has done so much without a decent running game, and with *no name guys at WR*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly! No name future hall of famers like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne.
> 
> 
> Clearly you're too ignorant on this subject to add any value to the debate.  No offense.
Click to expand...


Gotta run your mouth now huh? I thought we were giving our friendly opinions. Harrison has been gone for years, and nobody knew Wayne would be a hall of famer until lately. I am talking about all the other third wide-outs that allow that offense to function. I have been a die hard NFL fan my entire life. Where is Harrison now dumbshit? All they got as far as a big name is Wayne now. Care to prove me wrong on that? Garcon and Collie are new to the stage. I think it's you who has your head stuck up your pooptube fucko. How about you just eat a dirty cock for dinner tonight?  ~BH


----------



## BolshevikHunter

rightwinger said:


> While many people point out that Montana had Jerry Rice, they forget that John Taylor was his go to receiver. It was the west coast offense that made Montana great. Roger Craig coming out of the backfield kept the drives going
> Montana was not the most skilled QB, but he had the heart and cool head of a winner. You saw it at Notre Dame and you saw it emerge at San Fran.  Even with KC at the end of his career you could see the Montana spark



That's a good point about Taylor bro. ~BH


----------



## BolshevikHunter

candycorn said:


> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Manning's better than Brady.He's able to adapt and react to plays/games better than Brady. But you certainly can make the argument either way. They're both the top 2 QBs in the game right now-I think it just depends on who you prefer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, Manning's stats bury Brady's. Manning has done so much without a decent running game, and with no name guys at WR. Without a doubt recently. I will give credit to Brady for the Superbowls under his belt, Montana as well who I think is top 3, even though he had the best WR ever. However, I think when it's all said and done, Manning will go down as the best ever. Anyone who understands the game of Football and that position understands this fact. ~BH
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I doubt that.  Curious....Favre has the most yards ever...why isn't he the GOAT in your mind?
Click to expand...


Because he leads the league in interceptions. Who's 3rd on that list bro? = Manning. Favre is 41 years old, and Manning is 34. Do the fucking math dumb shit. Oh and uh, Goats are not on my mind. You might want to get some help with that sick and twisted disorder.  

When it's all said and done, Manning best QB of all time. ~BH


----------



## idb

I can't understand gridiron at all...but Joe Montana is an incredibly cool name.
It sounds like a Spaghetti Western character.
So...on that basis alone...he has to be the best QB ever.


----------



## JimH52

Keep watching guys.  P Manning is going to break every QB record in the book.  Then your arguments will be fruitless.


----------



## ginscpy

When Joe Montana was laughing with teamateate  after punkining USC 49-19  - made it look easy 

everything was in slo mo ......................

best-ever.....................


----------



## Montrovant

rightwinger said:


> While many people point out that Montana had Jerry Rice, they forget that John Taylor was his go to receiver. It was the west coast offense that made Montana great. Roger Craig coming out of the backfield kept the drives going
> Montana was not the most skilled QB, but he had the heart and cool head of a winner. You saw it at Notre Dame and you saw it emerge at San Fran.  Even with KC at the end of his career you could see the Montana spark



John Taylor was an excellent #2 receiver, but he was definitely not Montana's 'go to' guy.  That's ridiculous.  He not only never equaled Rice's receptions in a season (and Rice was the clear #1, which meant more coverage) he never really came close.

I'll accept the argument that the West Coast offense made Montana great as possible, but to say Taylor was the go to guy on the same team as Rice in his prime makes it hard to take the rest of your post seriously.


----------



## ginscpy

Montana  was  in the arena  in college - the USC games  - the bowl games 

More  pressure than in the NFL


----------



## rightwinger

JimH52 said:


> Keep watching guys.  P Manning is going to break every QB record in the book.  Then your arguments will be fruitless.



Todays Quarterback records might as well be on steroids. You can't hit the QB, receivers run down the field with nobody allowed to touch them and then dance around when they make a catch, indoor stadiums. QBs used to even call their own plays

Stats mean nothing, what a QB needs to do is execute his game plan and win the big ones


----------



## candycorn

BolshevikHunter said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manning has done so much without a decent running game, and with *no name guys at WR*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly! No name future hall of famers like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne.
> 
> 
> Clearly you're too ignorant on this subject to add any value to the debate.  No offense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gotta run your mouth now huh? I thought we were giving our friendly opinions. Harrison has been gone for years, and nobody knew Wayne would be a hall of famer until lately. I am talking about all the other third wide-outs that allow that offense to function. I have been a die hard NFL fan my entire life. Where is Harrison now dumbshit? All they got as far as a big name is Wayne now. Care to prove me wrong on that? Garcon and Collie are new to the stage. I think it's you who has your head stuck up your pooptube fucko. How about you just eat a dirty cock for dinner tonight?  ~BH
Click to expand...



Easy guys...football...

Dallas Clark isn't a total waste as a receiver. I don't think either he or Wayne will be able to see the inside of Canton unless they buy a ticket however.


----------



## JamesInFlorida

candycorn said:


> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly! No name future hall of famers like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne.
> 
> 
> Clearly you're too ignorant on this subject to add any value to the debate.  No offense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta run your mouth now huh? I thought we were giving our friendly opinions. Harrison has been gone for years, and nobody knew Wayne would be a hall of famer until lately. I am talking about all the other third wide-outs that allow that offense to function. I have been a die hard NFL fan my entire life. Where is Harrison now dumbshit? All they got as far as a big name is Wayne now. Care to prove me wrong on that? Garcon and Collie are new to the stage. I think it's you who has your head stuck up your pooptube fucko. How about you just eat a dirty cock for dinner tonight?  ~BH
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Easy guys...football...
> 
> Dallas Clark isn't a total waste as a receiver. I don't think either he or Wayne will be able to see the inside of Canton unless they buy a ticket however.
Click to expand...


Agreed. The HOF isn't for good, or very good players. It's reserved only for the great. Period. Wayne's a good WR-there's not disputing that. But in no way is he even remotely close to the HOF.

But the whole QB arguments can go back and forth all day, based on so many things, but I really think the single most biggest aspect is the O-Line they play behind, without a question. It's not the only reason-but watch guys like Brady and Manning play today-part of the reason for their success is due to the fact that they typically get a little bit more time with the ball to make a play (which in football is huge).


----------



## BolshevikHunter

candycorn said:


> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly! No name future hall of famers like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne.
> 
> 
> Clearly you're too ignorant on this subject to add any value to the debate.  No offense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta run your mouth now huh? I thought we were giving our friendly opinions. Harrison has been gone for years, and nobody knew Wayne would be a hall of famer until lately. I am talking about all the other third wide-outs that allow that offense to function. I have been a die hard NFL fan my entire life. Where is Harrison now dumbshit? All they got as far as a big name is Wayne now. Care to prove me wrong on that? Garcon and Collie are new to the stage. I think it's you who has your head stuck up your pooptube fucko. How about you just eat a dirty cock for dinner tonight?  ~BH
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Easy guys...football...
> 
> Dallas Clark isn't a total waste as a receiver. I don't think either he or Wayne will be able to see the inside of Canton unless they buy a ticket however.
Click to expand...


LMAO! Just giving him shit bro.  Yeah but I agree about Canton. Dallas Clark is a tight end, which I am sure that you already know, but I guess they do use him as a third receiver in that offense. Speaking of Tight ends, Witten is pretty good too. ~BH


----------



## mal

ginscpy said:


> tell me  im wrong



You are Wrong...

And this is from a Member of the Raider Nation...

Elway was the Best... Did more with FAR less...

Joe had Super Bowl Quality in the 2nd String...

Now you know.



peace...


----------



## candycorn

Raider Nation (My Nation too) at it's recent best:  Sigh...


----------



## Article 15

BolshevikHunter said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manning has done so much without a decent running game, and with *no name guys at WR*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly! No name future hall of famers like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne.
> 
> 
> Clearly you're too ignorant on this subject to add any value to the debate.  No offense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gotta run your mouth now huh? I thought we were giving our friendly opinions. Harrison has been gone for years, and nobody knew Wayne would be a hall of famer until lately. I am talking about all the other third wide-outs that allow that offense to function. I have been a die hard NFL fan my entire life. Where is Harrison now dumbshit? All they got as far as a big name is Wayne now. Care to prove me wrong on that? Garcon and Collie are new to the stage. I think it's you who has your head stuck up your pooptube fucko. How about you just eat a dirty cock for dinner tonight?  ~BH
Click to expand...


Between Harrison and Wayne, Manning has had a marquee receiver in his prime to throw to his entire career, dude.

He also had a prime Edgerrin James as a his RB.


----------



## HUGGY

JamesInFlorida said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta run your mouth now huh? I thought we were giving our friendly opinions. Harrison has been gone for years, and nobody knew Wayne would be a hall of famer until lately. I am talking about all the other third wide-outs that allow that offense to function. I have been a die hard NFL fan my entire life. Where is Harrison now dumbshit? All they got as far as a big name is Wayne now. Care to prove me wrong on that? Garcon and Collie are new to the stage. I think it's you who has your head stuck up your pooptube fucko. How about you just eat a dirty cock for dinner tonight?  ~BH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Easy guys...football...
> 
> Dallas Clark isn't a total waste as a receiver. I don't think either he or Wayne will be able to see the inside of Canton unless they buy a ticket however.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agreed. The HOF isn't for good, or very good players. It's reserved only for the great. Period. Wayne's a good WR-there's not disputing that. But in no way is he even remotely close to the HOF.
> 
> *But the whole QB arguments can go back and forth all day, based on so many things, but I really think the single most biggest aspect is the O-Line they play behind*, without a question. It's not the only reason-but watch guys like Brady and Manning play today-part of the reason for their success is due to the fact that they typically get a little bit more time with the ball to make a play (which in football is huge).
Click to expand...


Exactly!


----------



## rightwinger

candycorn said:


> Raider Nation (My Nation too) at it's recent best:  Sigh...



That one had pick 6 written all over it


----------



## rightwinger

mal said:


> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> 
> tell me  im wrong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are Wrong...
> 
> And this is from a Member of the Raider Nation...
> Elway was the Best... Did more with FAR less...
> Joe had Super Bowl Quality in the 2nd String...
> 
> Now you know.
> 
> 
> 
> peace...
Click to expand...



In claiming to be the best, Elway would have to explain that 55-10 drubbing by Montana and the 49ers

Only Superbowl they should have invoked the mercy rule


----------



## candycorn

rightwinger said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Raider Nation (My Nation too) at it's recent best:  Sigh...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That one had pick 6 written all over it
Click to expand...


Still does; except they are each picking up 6 molars, bicuspids, etc...


----------



## candycorn

rightwinger said:


> mal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> 
> tell me  im wrong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are Wrong...
> 
> And this is from a Member of the Raider Nation...
> Elway was the Best... Did more with FAR less...
> Joe had Super Bowl Quality in the 2nd String...
> 
> Now you know.
> 
> 
> 
> peace...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In claiming to be the best, Elway would have to explain that 55-10 drubbing by Montana and the 49ers
> 
> Only Superbowl they should have invoked the mercy rule
Click to expand...


I'll respectfully disagree with you on that one; as I recall hearing the story...

"One of the coaches (might have been Walsh) asked Montana 'How many points do you think we can score against their defense?'

Montana answered, 'As many as we want.'"

Its easy to say that they should have put more than 10 points on the board but when you're down by 20-30 points, the game plan gets thrown out and they're expecting the pass on every play.  

Yeah that was embarassing though.  Was that the SB that was at Stanford?


----------



## Montrovant

rightwinger said:


> mal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> 
> tell me  im wrong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are Wrong...
> 
> And this is from a Member of the Raider Nation...
> Elway was the Best... Did more with FAR less...
> Joe had Super Bowl Quality in the 2nd String...
> 
> Now you know.
> 
> 
> 
> peace...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In claiming to be the best, Elway would have to explain that 55-10 drubbing by Montana and the 49ers
> 
> Only Superbowl they should have invoked the mercy rule
Click to expand...


More importantly in my mind, in claiming to be the best, Elway would have to explain not winning a SB until he had a 2000 yard rusher in T.Davis.


----------



## BolshevikHunter

Article 15 said:


> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly! No name future hall of famers like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne.
> 
> 
> Clearly you're too ignorant on this subject to add any value to the debate.  No offense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta run your mouth now huh? I thought we were giving our friendly opinions. Harrison has been gone for years, and nobody knew Wayne would be a hall of famer until lately. I am talking about all the other third wide-outs that allow that offense to function. I have been a die hard NFL fan my entire life. Where is Harrison now dumbshit? All they got as far as a big name is Wayne now. Care to prove me wrong on that? Garcon and Collie are new to the stage. I think it's you who has your head stuck up your pooptube fucko. How about you just eat a dirty cock for dinner tonight?  ~BH
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Between Harrison and Wayne, Manning has had a marquee receiver in his prime to throw to his entire career, dude.
> 
> He also had a prime Edgerrin James as a his RB.
Click to expand...


A15, How yuh been bro?  James was overated in my opinion, and he wasn't with them when they won their Superbowl. He has never had a powerhouse RB like Dallas, Denver or Green bay had. I will give the Patriots credit for winning superbowls with 2nd rate RB's, and 2nd rate receivers as well for most of their runs.

Anyway, Find me an NFL QB of this era that didn't have atleast one marquee receiver to throw to? Or atleast most of them did, other than a few. Hell, Even the crappy Faiders had Tim Brown throughout their miserable years. Falcons had Andre Rison, but did nothing ect. 
My point is that Manning makes Garcon and Collie look like Marquee receivers, which I think they are both really talented anyway, but Manning takes them to that next higher level. 

Fact is bro, Manning will break every record on the books by the time he's finished. I grew up a Niner fan too. I live in the Bay Area. He's the best, plain and simple. ~BH


----------



## BolshevikHunter

Nothing but injuries last Season, but still made it to the playoffs with a winning record!






Bet on it hATERS! ~BH


----------



## JimH52

rightwinger said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep watching guys.  P Manning is going to break every QB record in the book.  Then your arguments will be fruitless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Todays Quarterback records might as well be on steroids. You can't hit the QB, receivers run down the field with nobody allowed to touch them and then dance around when they make a catch, indoor stadiums. QBs used to even call their own plays
> 
> Stats mean nothing, what a QB needs to do is execute his game plan and win the big ones
Click to expand...


Manning has more control over the offense than the coaches do.  He is a coach on the field, with a million dollar arm.  I will say it again.  Barring a major injury, P Manning will break every passing record in the book.  He is the best to even stand behind center, in the NFL.


----------



## Montrovant

JimH52 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep watching guys.  P Manning is going to break every QB record in the book.  Then your arguments will be fruitless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Todays Quarterback records might as well be on steroids. You can't hit the QB, receivers run down the field with nobody allowed to touch them and then dance around when they make a catch, indoor stadiums. QBs used to even call their own plays
> 
> Stats mean nothing, what a QB needs to do is execute his game plan and win the big ones
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning has more control over the offense than the coaches do.  He is a coach on the field, with a million dollar arm.  I will say it again.  Barring a major injury, P Manning will break every passing record in the book.  He is the best to even stand behind center, in the NFL.
Click to expand...


I am confident Manning will not break most records for playoff or Super Bowl passing.


----------



## rightwinger

JimH52 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep watching guys.  P Manning is going to break every QB record in the book.  Then your arguments will be fruitless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Todays Quarterback records might as well be on steroids. You can't hit the QB, receivers run down the field with nobody allowed to touch them and then dance around when they make a catch, indoor stadiums. QBs used to even call their own plays
> 
> Stats mean nothing, what a QB needs to do is execute his game plan and win the big ones
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning has more control over the offense than the coaches do.  He is a coach on the field, with a million dollar arm.  I will say it again.  Barring a major injury, P Manning will break every passing record in the book.  He is the best to even stand behind center, in the NFL.
Click to expand...


In comparing Manning to Montana it will come down to one question..

How did they perform in big games?

At both Tennesee and Indy, Peyton Manning was known for putting up big numbers in the regular season and coming up short in the big games. Florida owned him in college and New England owned him in the pros. Manning was always good for a turnover in must win games

Joe Montana was known for turning up his game when the game was high stakes. He was legendary in Notre Dame and SF for pulling out wins in the final moments of big games

Peyton Manning is still a top 5 QB but I wouldn't put him ahead of Brady or Montana


----------



## candycorn

rightwinger said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Todays Quarterback records might as well be on steroids. You can't hit the QB, receivers run down the field with nobody allowed to touch them and then dance around when they make a catch, indoor stadiums. QBs used to even call their own plays
> 
> Stats mean nothing, what a QB needs to do is execute his game plan and win the big ones
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manning has more control over the offense than the coaches do.  He is a coach on the field, with a million dollar arm.  I will say it again.  Barring a major injury, P Manning will break every passing record in the book.  He is the best to even stand behind center, in the NFL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In comparing Manning to Montana it will come down to one question..
> 
> How did they perform in big games?
> 
> At both Tennesee and Indy, Peyton Manning was known for putting up big numbers in the regular season and coming up short in the big games. Florida owned him in college and New England owned him in the pros. Manning was always good for a turnover in must win games
> 
> Joe Montana was known for turning up his game when the game was high stakes. He was legendary in Notre Dame and SF for pulling out wins in the final moments of big games
> 
> Peyton Manning is still a top 5 QB but I wouldn't put him ahead of Brady or Montana
Click to expand...


Here are the Stats for Montana.

Joe Montana's Career 4th quarter comebacks and game-winning drives - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Here are the Stats for Manning.

Peyton Manning's Career 4th quarter comebacks and game-winning drives - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Montana is credited with 31 4th Quarter combacks; Manning with 35.  It needs to be noted however that Manning is doing it when you can't touch receivers and that the 49ers were so dominant league-wide that there was little need to have to come back in many games.  For example in the 84-86 seasons, Montana had four 4th Qtr comebacks. * But it should be noted that of the 4 times where he had to bring the team back in those 3 seasons--29 wins; give that some thought--3 of those games were in either November of December.*  He was money!  And of course remember...he personally kept Boomer from going to Disneyworld  in the Super Bowl.

Still, Manning is impressive in every way.  Just not in my top 4.  The more you guys talk about him though....he may be inching closer to my top 5.


----------



## Wicked Jester

Montana was great, but not the greatest.

I'll take John Elway as probably the greatest pure quarterback. He never had the likes of a Jerry Rice or John Taylor to throw too, and the dude was as tough as they come.


----------



## rightwinger

Wicked Jester said:


> Montana was great, but not the greatest.
> 
> I'll take John Elway as probably the greatest pure quarterback. He never had the likes of a Jerry Rice or John Taylor to throw too, and the dude was as tough as they come.



Head to head against Joe Montana

Joe Montana 55
John Elway   10


----------



## Wicked Jester

rightwinger said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Montana was great, but not the greatest.
> 
> I'll take John Elway as probably the greatest pure quarterback. He never had the likes of a Jerry Rice or John Taylor to throw too, and the dude was as tough as they come.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Head to head against Joe Montana
> 
> Joe Montana 55
> John Elway   10
Click to expand...

John Elway never had two of the greatest receivers to ever play the game to throw too.

Like I said, Montana was great, but not the greatest.

As far as a pure quarterback goes, it's Elway all the way.

Hell. I'd throw in Unitas, Fouts, Staubach, Marino, Starr over Montana based on pure talent.


----------



## rightwinger

Wicked Jester said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Montana was great, but not the greatest.
> 
> I'll take John Elway as probably the greatest pure quarterback. He never had the likes of a Jerry Rice or John Taylor to throw too, and the dude was as tough as they come.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Head to head against Joe Montana
> 
> Joe Montana 55
> John Elway   10
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> John Elway never had two of the greatest receivers to ever play the game to throw too.
> 
> Like I said, Montana was great, but not the greatest.
> 
> As far as a pure quarterback goes, it's Elway all the way.
> 
> Hell. I'd throw in Unitas, Fouts, Staubach, Marino, Starr over Montana based on pure talent.
Click to expand...


Talent?  Probably 20 or more QBs with more talent than Montana

Heart and coolness under pressure.....nobody close


----------



## Montrovant

Wicked Jester said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Montana was great, but not the greatest.
> 
> I'll take John Elway as probably the greatest pure quarterback. He never had the likes of a Jerry Rice or John Taylor to throw too, and the dude was as tough as they come.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Head to head against Joe Montana
> 
> Joe Montana 55
> John Elway   10
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> John Elway never had two of the greatest receivers to ever play the game to throw too.
> 
> Like I said, Montana was great, but not the greatest.
> 
> As far as a pure quarterback goes, it's Elway all the way.
> 
> Hell. I'd throw in Unitas, Fouts, Staubach, Marino, Starr over Montana based on pure talent.
Click to expand...


Ignoring the argument of Elway as the greatest (I disagree strongly), John Taylor is not one of the greatest receivers to ever play.  That's laughable.  I am a Niner fan, I was a Niner fan when Rice and Taylor were playing, I watched Taylor score two 90+ yard TDs in a single game, and I still say it's laughable.  He was a good #2 receiver.  Perhaps the best #2 of his time.  That's a far cry from one of the best ever.

I agree that Montana was blessed with some great receivers during his 49er career.  He was still superior to Elway IMO.


----------



## Wicked Jester

Montrovant said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Head to head against Joe Montana
> 
> Joe Montana 55
> John Elway   10
> 
> 
> 
> John Elway never had two of the greatest receivers to ever play the game to throw too.
> 
> Like I said, Montana was great, but not the greatest.
> 
> As far as a pure quarterback goes, it's Elway all the way.
> 
> Hell. I'd throw in Unitas, Fouts, Staubach, Marino, Starr over Montana based on pure talent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ignoring the argument of Elway as the greatest (I disagree strongly), John Taylor is not one of the greatest receivers to ever play.  That's laughable.  I am a Niner fan, I was a Niner fan when Rice and Taylor were playing, I watched Taylor score two 90+ yard TDs in a single game, and I still say it's laughable.  He was a good #2 receiver.  Perhaps the best #2 of his time.  That's a far cry from one of the best ever.
> 
> I agree that Montana was blessed with some great receivers during his 49er career.  He was still superior to Elway IMO.
Click to expand...

Put Elway on that team, and you get just as many wins and super bowls, if not more.....Elway never had a back like Roger Craig, who was one of the best catching the ball out of the backfield. Elway had Terrel Davis, a great back, but not the all around that Craig was. Elway also didn't have Bill Walsh. The MAIN reason for Montana's success. Walsh masterfully crafted a brilliant offense to make up for Montana's talent lacks....Montana was great, but certainly not the best ever.


----------



## Truthseeker420

Douger said:


> Terry Bradshaw or Joe Namath.
> When I was uh murkin I used to follow such idiocy.



Terry Bradshaw?


----------



## candycorn

Montrovant said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Head to head against Joe Montana
> 
> Joe Montana 55
> John Elway   10
> 
> 
> 
> John Elway never had two of the greatest receivers to ever play the game to throw too.
> 
> Like I said, Montana was great, but not the greatest.
> 
> As far as a pure quarterback goes, it's Elway all the way.
> 
> Hell. I'd throw in Unitas, Fouts, Staubach, Marino, Starr over Montana based on pure talent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ignoring the argument of Elway as the greatest (I disagree strongly), John Taylor is not one of the greatest receivers to ever play.  That's laughable.  I am a Niner fan, I was a Niner fan when Rice and Taylor were playing, I watched Taylor score two 90+ yard TDs in a single game, and I still say it's laughable.  He was a good #2 receiver.  Perhaps the best #2 of his time.  That's a far cry from one of the best ever.
> 
> I agree that Montana was blessed with some great receivers during his 49er career.  He was still superior to Elway IMO.
Click to expand...


Just while we're on the topic; remember Freddie Solomon?  

I have Elway and Marino on my Mt. Rushmore of QBs along with Montana and Brady...and about a dozen or so with chisels trying to put Manning's mug on there somewhere so I'm not too offended by the discussion about Elway.  

I will say this though; if you're going to say Elway is the GOAT (Greatest of All Time), what do you base that on?  Marino had 10,000 more yards in the career, 120 MORE TD passes than Elway, completed 800 more passes and had receivers who were also largely nobodies and no running game at all. Elway did have Shannon Sharpe which is more than you can say about Marino.

Elway, to me, satisfies a great number of desires I have for a quarterback to be great; he was a hell of a competitor.  I remember they were playing the Chiefs one time.  It was at Mile High and it was something like 10 degrees.  It was December and the Broncos are trying to keep their unbeaten season alive against the hapless Chiefs who were probably just happy to leave KC.  Anyway, the Broncos were down by 21 in the first half and came back to tie it.  Then later on in the 2nd half, they were down by 10.  And came back to win.  Elway had 400 yards, 2 TD's and a pick; TD had 3 scores.  But the glare he gave his team mates on that day--these guys were ready to call it a day early--brought them through.  Absolutely magnificent leadership from one of the game's all time greats.  A well deserved hall of famer and he could start for my team any day...any day that Montana doesn't.


----------



## Toome

Sorry, but I'm old school.  When I look at the best QB that ever played, I have to go to the time BEFORE coaches called the plays and BEFORE QBs had the technical advantage of coordinators in the booth reviewing live camera footage and calling down what they saw.  I define a true quarterback as one who has to read the defense himself and come up with the call himself.  That eliminates most, if not all, of today's quarterbacks.  It whittles the list down to the following:

Ken "the Snake" Stabler:  have to start off with him because he should NOT be as good as he was.  He had bad knees from lots of injuries and couldn't stay in the pocket to save his life no matter how good the line was blocking.  But if you were behind late in the fourth quarter, you KNEW Stabler was going to win it for you.  He had this uncanny ability to find receivers and find some way to win the game, even if it meant intentionally fumbling the ball with his infamous "fumble pass" against the Chargers.  Hence, the NFL fumble rule.

Honorable mentions to Fran Tarkenton, Roger Staubach and Johnny Unitas.  However, it doesn't mean a thing if you can't win the Big Game.  And these are my Big Game picks:

Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw and Otto Graham.  Great QBs with impressive numbers during the regular season and post season who won championship games.  But as great as they were, there are two, in my book, who stand out as the best of all time; they are the ones who intimidated defenses because if they weren't stopped, then it was going to be a long day for the defense.  Defensive linemen pulled out all the stops and hit 'em as hard as they could under the Old Rules and then shit their pants if theses QBs got back up because they knew it was now their turn to pull out a play from the Dirty Tricks Book.

Sammy Baugh and Bart Starr.  Can't decide which one was better, but they won Championship Games.  Period.  They delivered pain to the defense. Period.  They played by the Old Rules and not with today's pampered rules which guarantee good quarterback performances.  Their numbers were earned the hard way.  Their receivers had to fight to get in the open.  Their linemen really had to block.  And when all else failed, these QBs punched back when they were in the bottom of the pile.  They were tough, gutsy and, more importantly, they delivered.

Today's pansies simply don't compare.


----------



## Wicked Jester

Toome said:


> Sorry, but I'm old school.  When I look at the best QB that ever played, I have to go to the time BEFORE coaches called the plays and BEFORE QBs had the technical advantage of coordinators in the booth reviewing live camera footage and calling down what they saw.  I define a true quarterback as one who has to read the defense himself and come up with the call himself.  That eliminates most, if not all, of today's quarterbacks.  It whittles the list down to the following:
> 
> Ken "the Snake" Stabler:  have to start off with him because he should NOT be as good as he was.  He had bad knees from lots of injuries and couldn't stay in the pocket to save his life no matter how good the line was blocking.  But if you were behind late in the fourth quarter, you KNEW Stabler was going to win it for you.  He had this uncanny ability to find receivers and find some way to win the game, even if it meant intentionally fumbling the ball with his infamous "fumble pass" against the Chargers.  Hence, the NFL fumble rule.
> 
> Honorable mentions to Fran Tarkenton, Roger Staubach and Johnny Unitas.  However, it doesn't mean a thing if you can't win the Big Game.  And these are my Big Game picks:
> 
> Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw and Otto Graham.  Great QBs with impressive numbers during the regular season and post season who won championship games.  But as great as they were, there are two, in my book, who stand out as the best of all time; they are the ones who intimidated defenses because if they weren't stopped, then it was going to be a long day for the defense.  Defensive linemen pulled out all the stops and hit 'em as hard as they could under the Old Rules and then shit their pants if theses QBs got back up because they knew it was now their turn to pull out a play from the Dirty Tricks Book.
> 
> Sammy Baugh and Bart Starr.  Can't decide which one was better, but they won Championship Games.  Period.  They delivered pain to the defense. Period.  They played by the Old Rules and not with today's pampered rules which guarantee good quarterback performances.  Their numbers were earned the hard way.  Their receivers had to fight to get in the open.  Their linemen really had to block.  And when all else failed, these QBs punched back when they were in the bottom of the pile.  They were tough, gutsy and, more importantly, they delivered.
> 
> Today's pansies simply don't compare.


Stabler was definitely great. Not only was he tough, he could come out and deliver while suffering from a severe hangover and still half drunk. (His own admission, btw)

And you're right about the old schoolers. They were a different breed. And that's why I put Elway at the top of the modern breed. The dude was tough as nails. The dude could make things happen when nothing else was happening. He used to drive Dan Reevesn nuts when the game plan formulated by the coaches wasn't working, Elway said screw it, and masterfully improvised his own on the fly......As Reeves said in the NFL network special on Elway...."Of course he pissed me off, right up until the whistle sounded in the fourth quarter and John engineered another win. He's up with their best of 'em, if not at the top of the list. There has been very few quarterbacks with the football savvy of John Elway."


----------



## percysunshine

Elway wins because I grew up in Denver, Colorado. 

Don't even try to talk me out of my opinion.


----------



## BolshevikHunter

rightwinger said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Montana was great, but not the greatest.
> 
> I'll take John Elway as probably the greatest pure quarterback. He never had the likes of a Jerry Rice or John Taylor to throw too, and the dude was as tough as they come.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Head to head against Joe Montana
> 
> Joe Montana 55
> John Elway   10
Click to expand...


That response was priceless rw! LMAO! I love it, because it's true.

Anyway, I think the top 3 modern era QB's ever will be this after Manning and Brady retire.......

1# - Peyton Manning

2# - Joe Montana

3# - Tom Brady

4# - John Elway

5# - Brett Favre (Sorry, Leads the league in Interceptions)

This comes from a die hard NFL fan who grew up a Niner fan. Forget Marino, You gotta have atleast one Superbowl win to even be considered, and then you add that to their career stats. ~BH


----------



## BolshevikHunter

percysunshine said:


> Elway wins because I grew up in Denver, Colorado.
> 
> Don't even try to talk me out of my opinion.



Again, Like rw already pointed out...............................

Head to head against Joe Montana:

Joe Montana 55
John Elway 10

I rest our case! Buttttttttttttttttt, I really liked, and like John Elway alot. I think he was a great QB, and a great person as well. ~BH


----------



## JimH52

1# - Peyton Manning

2# - Joe Montana

3# - Terry Bradshaw

4# - Tom Brady

5# - John Elway


----------



## Wicked Jester

1) John Elway

2) Johnny Unitas

3) Joe Montana

4) Dan Marino

5) Tom Brady


----------



## Wicked Jester

We can only imagine what Staubach's record could have looked like had he not missed his first 4 year navy commitment.......He could very well have been the best ever.


----------



## JimH52

Wicked Jester said:


> 1) John Elway
> 
> 2) Johnny Unitas
> 
> 3) Joe Montana
> 
> 4) Dan Marino
> 
> 5) Tom Brady



You cannot leave P Manning off that list.  Marino....He was great but no SB.  That knocks him out of the top 5, IMHO.


----------



## Wicked Jester

JimH52 said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) John Elway
> 
> 2) Johnny Unitas
> 
> 3) Joe Montana
> 
> 4) Dan Marino
> 
> 5) Tom Brady
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot leave P Manning off that list.  Marino....He was great but no SB.  That knocks him out of the top 5, IMHO.
Click to expand...

Manning's great, but I can't put him in the top 5, YET.

Gotta go with Marino's passing numbers. They stand on their own. If I was basing it soleley on SB's, Either winning them or simply getting their team there, than I would have to put Rothlesberger, Kelly, Simms, Aikman, Young, Etc. above Marino and Manning also, eh?


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Peyton Manning before Joe Montana or Tom Brady  is a joke.Manning was almost as bad as Marino was in the big games.Always stunk up the joint in the playoffs the majority of the time when it counted.The only reason he won the superbowl before was he was playing against a team that did not belong there in the chicago bears.The Bears defense and speacil teams is what carried them that far to the superbowl that year.Rex Grossman showed his true colors that he did have the mentality of a starting quarterback and is now a bench warmer.Once Manning had to face a REAL team in the superbowl who had a good quarterback and offense to play against,he was a joke.Manning cant carry Montana   jockstrap.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Wicked Jester said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) John Elway
> 
> 2) Johnny Unitas
> 
> 3) Joe Montana
> 
> 4) Dan Marino
> 
> 5) Tom Brady
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot leave P Manning off that list.  Marino....He was great but no SB.  That knocks him out of the top 5, IMHO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Manning's great, but I can't put him in the top 5, YET.
> 
> Gotta go with Marino's passing numbers. They stand on their own. If I was basing it soleley on SB's, Either winning them or simply getting their team there, than I would have to put Rothlesberger, Kelly, Simms, Aikman, Young, Etc. above Marino and Manning also, eh?
Click to expand...


aman to that.Like i said,Manning couldnt carry the jockstrap of any of those quarterbacks you just mentioned except for Marino maybe since Manning DID win a superbowl.with the expected NFL strike season,I would say its pretty safe to say mannings best years are behind him now.He isnt getting any younger. he will be 35 next year and thats OLD for a quarterback.38 is the average age the greats retire.Marino,Elway,Montana.Favre was the exception.

btw Jester,when the Rams moved away from LA,did you do like I did and turn to the chargers since they were the only california team left there who had the same colors of the rams?


----------



## percysunshine

No Namath? 

Well, they frown on saturated fats anyway.


----------



## Wicked Jester

9/11 inside job said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot leave P Manning off that list.  Marino....He was great but no SB.  That knocks him out of the top 5, IMHO.
> 
> 
> 
> Manning's great, but I can't put him in the top 5, YET.
> 
> Gotta go with Marino's passing numbers. They stand on their own. If I was basing it soleley on SB's, Either winning them or simply getting their team there, than I would have to put Rothlesberger, Kelly, Simms, Aikman, Young, Etc. above Marino and Manning also, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> aman to that.Like i said,Manning couldnt carry the jockstrap of any of those quarterbacks you just mentioned except for Marino maybe since Manning DID win a superbowl.with the expected NFL strike season,I would say its pretty safe to say mannings best years are behind him now.He isnt getting any younger. he will be 35 next year and thats OLD for a quarterback.38 is the average age the greats retire.Marino,Elway,Montana.Favre was the exception.
> 
> btw Jester,when the Rams moved away from LA,did you do like I did and turn to the chargers since they were the only california team left there who had the same colors of the rams?
Click to expand...

Naaaaah, I'm just a fan in general now. I don't have a team. My team abandoned us. That team in St. Louis is not the Rams.

It sounds as though we're finally going to get a team here. The downtown site next to Staples is giving  NFL execs a hard on.....We'll see.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Wicked Jester said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manning's great, but I can't put him in the top 5, YET.
> 
> Gotta go with Marino's passing numbers. They stand on their own. If I was basing it soleley on SB's, Either winning them or simply getting their team there, than I would have to put Rothlesberger, Kelly, Simms, Aikman, Young, Etc. above Marino and Manning also, eh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aman to that.Like i said,Manning couldnt carry the jockstrap of any of those quarterbacks you just mentioned except for Marino maybe since Manning DID win a superbowl.with the expected NFL strike season,I would say its pretty safe to say mannings best years are behind him now.He isnt getting any younger. he will be 35 next year and thats OLD for a quarterback.38 is the average age the greats retire.Marino,Elway,Montana.Favre was the exception.
> 
> btw Jester,when the Rams moved away from LA,did you do like I did and turn to the chargers since they were the only california team left there who had the same colors of the rams?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Naaaaah, I'm just a fan in general now. I don't have a team. My team abandoned us. That team in St. Louis is not the Rams.
> 
> It sounds as though we're finally going to get a team here. The downtown site next to Staples is giving  NFL execs a hard on.....We'll see.
Click to expand...


I hope you are wrong,to me there is no other NFL team except the LA RAMS.the others are imposters.I want the rams there or no other NFL team in LA.Like you said,the team in st louis is not the rams.St Louis's REAL team is playing in arizona.Hell the fans dont even support that team In st Louis anymore.if they dont win,they abondoned that team,you can EASILY get a ticket to see that fake and phony team calling themselves the st louis rams in st louis,that stadium is half empty all the time.the LA rams are playing in st louis and the st louis cardinals are frauds playing in arizona calling themselves the arizona cardinals.the NFL is a joke the way they allow these teams to move.with this upcoming strike,i think i have pretty much had it with the NFL now.


----------



## rightwinger

9/11 inside job said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> aman to that.Like i said,Manning couldnt carry the jockstrap of any of those quarterbacks you just mentioned except for Marino maybe since Manning DID win a superbowl.with the expected NFL strike season,I would say its pretty safe to say mannings best years are behind him now.He isnt getting any younger. he will be 35 next year and thats OLD for a quarterback.38 is the average age the greats retire.Marino,Elway,Montana.Favre was the exception.
> 
> btw Jester,when the Rams moved away from LA,did you do like I did and turn to the chargers since they were the only california team left there who had the same colors of the rams?
> 
> 
> 
> Naaaaah, I'm just a fan in general now. I don't have a team. My team abandoned us. That team in St. Louis is not the Rams.
> 
> It sounds as though we're finally going to get a team here. The downtown site next to Staples is giving  NFL execs a hard on.....We'll see.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I hope you are wrong,to me there is no other NFL team except the LA RAMS.the others are imposters.I want the rams there or no other NFL team in LA.Like you said,the team in st louis is not the rams.St Louis's REAL team is playing in arizona.Hell the fans dont even support that team In st Louis anymore.if they dont win,they abondoned that team,you can EASILY get a ticket to see that fake and phony team calling themselves the st louis rams in st louis,that stadium is half empty all the time.the LA rams are playing in st louis and the st louis cardinals are frauds playing in arizona calling themselves the arizona cardinals.the NFL is a joke the way they allow these teams to move.with this upcoming strike,i think i have pretty much had it with the NFL now.
Click to expand...


Yea....and Brooklyn is still pretty pissed at you for stealing the Dodgers


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Wicked Jester said:


> 1) John Elway
> 
> 2) Johnny Unitas
> 
> 3) Joe Montana
> 
> 4) Dan Marino
> 
> 5) Tom Brady



My list is similiar to yours.mine would be

1.Johnny Unitas.
2.Otto Graham.
3.Joe Montana.
4.John Elway
5.Fran Tarkenton
6.Dan Marino
7.Tom Brady.

Manning couldnt carry the jockstrap of ANY of these quarterbacks.


----------



## Wicked Jester

9/11 inside job said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) John Elway
> 
> 2) Johnny Unitas
> 
> 3) Joe Montana
> 
> 4) Dan Marino
> 
> 5) Tom Brady
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My list is similiar to yours.mine would be
> 
> 1.Johnny Unitas.
> 2.Otto Graham.
> 3.Joe Montana.
> 4.John Elway
> 5.Fran Tarkenton
> 6.Dan Marino
> 7.Tom Brady.
> 
> Manning couldnt carry the jockstrap of ANY of these quarterbacks.
Click to expand...

My 6-10 in no particular order:
Kenny Stabler
Otto Graham
Roger Staubach
Bart Starr
Troy Aikman

And then the following who are great in their own right. Again in no particular order.
Len Dawson
Roman Gabriel
Peyton Manning
Don Meredith
Joe Namath
Steve Young
Phil Simms
Jim Kelly
Brett Favre
Jon Hadle
Terry Bradshaw
Dan Fouts


----------



## JimH52

9/11 inside job said:


> Peyton Manning before Joe Montana or Tom Brady  is a joke.Manning was almost as bad as Marino was in the big games.Always stunk up the joint in the playoffs the majority of the time when it counted.The only reason he won the superbowl before was he was playing against a team that did not belong there in the chicago bears.The Bears defense and speacil teams is what carried them that far to the superbowl that year.Rex Grossman showed his true colors that he did have the mentality of a starting quarterback and is now a bench warmer.Once Manning had to face a REAL team in the superbowl who had a good quarterback and offense to play against,he was a joke.Manning cant carry Montana   jockstrap.



So when Peyton Manning retires in a few years with *ALL *the passing records, I guess you will have to come up with another reason to leave him off the list.


----------



## candycorn

JimH52 said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Peyton Manning before Joe Montana or Tom Brady  is a joke.Manning was almost as bad as Marino was in the big games.Always stunk up the joint in the playoffs the majority of the time when it counted.The only reason he won the superbowl before was he was playing against a team that did not belong there in the chicago bears.The Bears defense and speacil teams is what carried them that far to the superbowl that year.Rex Grossman showed his true colors that he did have the mentality of a starting quarterback and is now a bench warmer.Once Manning had to face a REAL team in the superbowl who had a good quarterback and offense to play against,he was a joke.Manning cant carry Montana   jockstrap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So when Peyton Manning retires in a few years with *ALL *the passing records, I guess you will have to come up with another reason to leave him off the list.
Click to expand...


"Reason" is something rimjob is not familiar with.


----------



## ginscpy

Nobody was better at Montana than seeing the game in slo-motion.


----------



## Wicked Jester

Wicked Jester said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) John Elway
> 
> 2) Johnny Unitas
> 
> 3) Joe Montana
> 
> 4) Dan Marino
> 
> 5) Tom Brady
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My list is similiar to yours.mine would be
> 
> 1.Johnny Unitas.
> 2.Otto Graham.
> 3.Joe Montana.
> 4.John Elway
> 5.Fran Tarkenton
> 6.Dan Marino
> 7.Tom Brady.
> 
> Manning couldnt carry the jockstrap of ANY of these quarterbacks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My 6-10 in no particular order:
> Kenny Stabler
> Otto Graham
> Roger Staubach
> Bart Starr
> Troy Aikman
> 
> And then the following who are great in their own right. Again in no particular order.
> Len Dawson
> Roman Gabriel
> Peyton Manning
> Don Meredith
> Joe Namath
> Steve Young
> Phil Simms
> Jim Kelly
> Brett Favre
> Jon Hadle
> Terry Bradshaw
> Dan Fouts
Click to expand...


Forgot to add a couple in the after 10 category:
Fran Tarkenton
Ben Roethlisberger
Kurt Warner
Boomer Esiasion
Archie Manning


----------



## ginscpy

Montana won titles with less than great talent around him :  1977 at Notre Dame and 1981 with the 49ers


----------



## Wicked Jester

ginscpy said:


> Montana won titles with less than great talent around him :  1977 at Notre Dame and 1981 with the 49ers


Joe Montana had Bill Walsh....Without him, he would have been average.

Just look at what happened when he and Walsh parted ways. Total mediocrity.

But, I put him in the top 5 just because of the number of super bowls.

As far as the best QB of all time, based on pure talent, toughness, knowledge of the game, It's John Elway.


----------



## ginscpy

55-10

Montana vs Elway  in SB 1990

Montana  won 2 major bowls at ND

Elways never won in a bowl game at Stanford


----------



## Wicked Jester

ginscpy said:


> 55-10
> 
> Montana vs Elway  in SB 1990
> 
> Montana  won 2 major bowls at ND
> 
> Elways never won in a bowl game at Stanford


Elway never had Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Roger Craig, Dwight Clark.

Put Elway on that team, and you've got more wins and super bowls.

Stanford was known as an academic school back then, not a football powerhouse. Unlike Notre Dame, they actually went to class, and had a tougher schedule than Notre Dame. Back then, Notre Dame had a patsy schedule. 

Montana was great, Elway was greater.


----------



## ginscpy

Scoreboard

Montana 55 
Elway 10


----------



## rightwinger

Wicked Jester said:


> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Montana won titles with less than great talent around him :  1977 at Notre Dame and 1981 with the 49ers
> 
> 
> 
> Joe Montana had Bill Walsh....Without him, he would have been average.
> 
> *Just look at what happened when he and Walsh parted ways. Total mediocrity.*
> But, I put him in the top 5 just because of the number of super bowls.
> 
> As far as the best QB of all time, based on pure talent, toughness, knowledge of the game, It's John Elway.
Click to expand...


Montana left SF and went to a mediocre Kansas City team. Even at the end of his career he guided them to the AFC Championship game. It is the last time KC has gone that far in the playoffs.

No doubt Elway is an all time great. But I can't strike the memory of Elway on the sidelines of that 55-10 drubbing in a total panic. Meanwhile, Joe Montana was laughing as he did whatever he wanted to.


----------



## Wicked Jester

rightwinger said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Montana won titles with less than great talent around him :  1977 at Notre Dame and 1981 with the 49ers
> 
> 
> 
> Joe Montana had Bill Walsh....Without him, he would have been average.
> 
> *Just look at what happened when he and Walsh parted ways. Total mediocrity.*
> But, I put him in the top 5 just because of the number of super bowls.
> 
> As far as the best QB of all time, based on pure talent, toughness, knowledge of the game, It's John Elway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Montana left SF and went to a mediocre Kansas City team. Even at the end of his career he guided them to the AFC Championship game. It is the last time KC has gone that far in the playoffs.
> 
> No doubt Elway is an all time great. But I can't strike the memory of Elway on the sidelines of that 55-10 drubbing in a total panic. Meanwhile, Joe Montana was laughing as he did whatever he wanted to.
Click to expand...

3 words:

Walsh, Rice, Craig.

Without 'em, Montana is Steve DeBerg.


----------



## rightwinger

Wicked Jester said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Joe Montana had Bill Walsh....Without him, he would have been average.
> 
> *Just look at what happened when he and Walsh parted ways. Total mediocrity.*
> But, I put him in the top 5 just because of the number of super bowls.
> 
> As far as the best QB of all time, based on pure talent, toughness, knowledge of the game, It's John Elway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montana left SF and went to a mediocre Kansas City team. Even at the end of his career he guided them to the AFC Championship game. It is the last time KC has gone that far in the playoffs.
> 
> No doubt Elway is an all time great. But I can't strike the memory of Elway on the sidelines of that 55-10 drubbing in a total panic. Meanwhile, Joe Montana was laughing as he did whatever he wanted to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 3 words:
> 
> Walsh, Rice, Craig.
> 
> Without 'em, Montana is Steve DeBerg.
Click to expand...


Montana won no matter where he played or system he played

He won at Notre Dame
He won with a mediocre SF team in 81
He won with KC


----------



## candycorn

Wicked Jester said:


> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 55-10
> 
> Montana vs Elway  in SB 1990
> 
> Montana  won 2 major bowls at ND
> 
> Elways never won in a bowl game at Stanford
> 
> 
> 
> Elway never had Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Roger Craig, Dwight Clark.
> 
> Put Elway on that team, and you've got more wins and super bowls.
> 
> Stanford was known as an academic school back then, not a football powerhouse. Unlike Notre Dame, they actually went to class, and had a tougher schedule than Notre Dame. Back then, Notre Dame had a patsy schedule.
> 
> Montana was great, Elway was greater.
Click to expand...


Elway had HOF Shannon Sharpe; it wasn't as if he was throwing the ball to nobody...jeezus.  I seem to remember them having an impressive running back a few years there too...Terrel Davis??  

I will say this; the overall talent of the 49ers (especially the 89 team) was much higher than the average talent of the Broncos and any other team.  I would argue that if you took Jerry Rice and put him on a lesser team, he'd been less spectacular--you can't double him when there is Taylor and Jones on the routes too and a game breaking running back in the backfield.  

As for Notre Dame not playing a tough schedule...here is what one source says:
1978 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Schedule and Results | College Football at Sports-Reference.com


> 1978 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Statistics
> School Index: Previous Year &#9642; Next Year
> 
> Navigation:
> Record: 9-3, .750 W-L% (15th of 138) (Schedule and Results)
> Coach: Dan Devine (9-3)
> 
> PTS/G: 24.4 (35th of 138) &#9642; Opp PTS/G: 16.4 (32nd of 138)
> SRS: 19.72 (8th of 138) &#9642;* SOS: 11.81 (8th of 138)*
> 
> Bowl Game: Won Cotton Bowl 35-34 versus Houston



8th hardest schedule isn't cheddar.  They played Michigan, Tennessee, Purdue, Miami (FL), USC, among others that year on the way to winning the Cotton Bowl.  

According to the same source, Montana had 72 carries that year...

Elway was a stud; Montana is a legend.


----------



## Wicked Jester

candycorn said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 55-10
> 
> Montana vs Elway  in SB 1990
> 
> Montana  won 2 major bowls at ND
> 
> Elways never won in a bowl game at Stanford
> 
> 
> 
> Elway never had Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Roger Craig, Dwight Clark.
> 
> Put Elway on that team, and you've got more wins and super bowls.
> 
> Stanford was known as an academic school back then, not a football powerhouse. Unlike Notre Dame, they actually went to class, and had a tougher schedule than Notre Dame. Back then, Notre Dame had a patsy schedule.
> 
> Montana was great, Elway was greater.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Elway had HOF Shannon Sharpe; it wasn't as if he was throwing the ball to nobody...jeezus.  I seem to remember them having an impressive running back a few years there too...Terrel Davis??
> 
> I will say this; the overall talent of the 49ers (especially the 89 team) was much higher than the average talent of the Broncos and any other team.  I would argue that if you took Jerry Rice and put him on a lesser team, he'd been less spectacular--you can't double him when there is Taylor and Jones on the routes too and a game breaking running back in the backfield.
> 
> As for Notre Dame not playing a tough schedule...here is what one source says:
> 1978 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Schedule and Results | College Football at Sports-Reference.com
> 
> 
> 
> 1978 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Statistics
> School Index: Previous Year &#9642; Next Year
> 
> Navigation:
> Record: 9-3, .750 W-L% (15th of 138) (Schedule and Results)
> Coach: Dan Devine (9-3)
> 
> PTS/G: 24.4 (35th of 138) &#9642; Opp PTS/G: 16.4 (32nd of 138)
> SRS: 19.72 (8th of 138) &#9642;* SOS: 11.81 (8th of 138)*
> 
> Bowl Game: Won Cotton Bowl 35-34 versus Houston
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 8th hardest schedule isn't cheddar.  They played Michigan, Tennessee, Purdue, Miami (FL), USC, among others that year on the way to winning the Cotton Bowl.
> 
> According to the same source, Montana had 72 carries that year...
> 
> Elway was a stud; Montana is a legend.
Click to expand...

Montana is a legend thanks to a great coach who designed an offense to make up for his lacks.. He's also a legend because he had the greatest receiver of all time. One of the greatest backs to catch the ball out of the backfield of all time. And a defense who kept the ball in the hands of the offense.

Elways is the greatest of all time based on pure talent. toughness, knowledge of the game. And the fact that many of those Denver teams weren't that great, but his talent alone made them perrenial contenders.

The premise of this thread is best quarterback......The best quarterback was John Elway.


----------



## ginscpy

candycorn said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 55-10
> 
> Montana vs Elway  in SB 1990
> 
> Montana  won 2 major bowls at ND
> 
> Elways never won in a bowl game at Stanford
> 
> 
> 
> Elway never had Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Roger Craig, Dwight Clark.
> 
> Put Elway on that team, and you've got more wins and super bowls.
> 
> Stanford was known as an academic school back then, not a football powerhouse. Unlike Notre Dame, they actually went to class, and had a tougher schedule than Notre Dame. Back then, Notre Dame had a patsy schedule.
> 
> Montana was great, Elway was greater.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Elway had HOF Shannon Sharpe; it wasn't as if he was throwing the ball to nobody...jeezus.  I seem to remember them having an impressive running back a few years there too...Terrel Davis??
> 
> I will say this; the overall talent of the 49ers (especially the 89 team) was much higher than the average talent of the Broncos and any other team.  I would argue that if you took Jerry Rice and put him on a lesser team, he'd been less spectacular--you can't double him when there is Taylor and Jones on the routes too and a game breaking running back in the backfield.
> 
> As for Notre Dame not playing a tough schedule...here is what one source says:
> 1978 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Schedule and Results | College Football at Sports-Reference.com
> 
> 
> 
> 1978 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Statistics
> School Index: Previous Year &#9642; Next Year
> 
> Navigation:
> Record: 9-3, .750 W-L% (15th of 138) (Schedule and Results)
> Coach: Dan Devine (9-3)
> 
> PTS/G: 24.4 (35th of 138) &#9642; Opp PTS/G: 16.4 (32nd of 138)
> SRS: 19.72 (8th of 138) &#9642;* SOS: 11.81 (8th of 138)*
> 
> Bowl Game: Won Cotton Bowl 35-34 versus Houston
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 8th hardest schedule isn't cheddar.  They played Michigan, Tennessee, Purdue, Miami (FL), USC, among others that year on the way to winning the Cotton Bowl.
> 
> According to the same source, Montana had 72 carries that year...
> 
> Elway was a stud; Montana is a legend.
Click to expand...


ND lost to Missouri ( a surprise) Michigan (not that big a surprise) and USC in 1978.  (got screwed big-time in the USC game.  Maybe Montanas best game ever. 

Lost once in 1977 to Ole Miss when Rusty Lich was the starter.

When Devine switched to Montana - ND never had a close game the rest of the season.

SLAM -DUNK NC.

In the 1990 Super Bowl - Elway had a pathetic game.  The airlines even lost his luggage.


----------



## BolshevikHunter

JimH52 said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Peyton Manning before Joe Montana or Tom Brady  is a joke.Manning was almost as bad as Marino was in the big games.Always stunk up the joint in the playoffs the majority of the time when it counted.The only reason he won the superbowl before was he was playing against a team that did not belong there in the chicago bears.The Bears defense and speacil teams is what carried them that far to the superbowl that year.Rex Grossman showed his true colors that he did have the mentality of a starting quarterback and is now a bench warmer.Once Manning had to face a REAL team in the superbowl who had a good quarterback and offense to play against,he was a joke.Manning cant carry Montana   jockstrap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So when Peyton Manning retires in a few years with *ALL *the passing records, I guess you will have to come up with another reason to leave him off the list.
Click to expand...


I think he's basically just a Manning hater. When Manning retires, he will own most of the records by an NFL QB. I think that Manning, Brady and Montana are without a doubt the top 3 ever once the first two retire like Joe. ~BH


----------



## BolshevikHunter

Wicked Jester said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Elway never had Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Roger Craig, Dwight Clark.
> 
> Put Elway on that team, and you've got more wins and super bowls.
> 
> Stanford was known as an academic school back then, not a football powerhouse. Unlike Notre Dame, they actually went to class, and had a tougher schedule than Notre Dame. Back then, Notre Dame had a patsy schedule.
> 
> Montana was great, Elway was greater.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Elway had HOF Shannon Sharpe; it wasn't as if he was throwing the ball to nobody...jeezus.  I seem to remember them having an impressive running back a few years there too...Terrel Davis??
> 
> I will say this; the overall talent of the 49ers (especially the 89 team) was much higher than the average talent of the Broncos and any other team.  I would argue that if you took Jerry Rice and put him on a lesser team, he'd been less spectacular--you can't double him when there is Taylor and Jones on the routes too and a game breaking running back in the backfield.
> 
> As for Notre Dame not playing a tough schedule...here is what one source says:
> 1978 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Schedule and Results | College Football at Sports-Reference.com
> 
> 
> 
> 1978 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Statistics
> School Index: Previous Year &#9642; Next Year
> 
> Navigation:
> Record: 9-3, .750 W-L% (15th of 138) (Schedule and Results)
> Coach: Dan Devine (9-3)
> 
> PTS/G: 24.4 (35th of 138) &#9642; Opp PTS/G: 16.4 (32nd of 138)
> SRS: 19.72 (8th of 138) &#9642;* SOS: 11.81 (8th of 138)*
> 
> Bowl Game: Won Cotton Bowl 35-34 versus Houston
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 8th hardest schedule isn't cheddar.  They played Michigan, Tennessee, Purdue, Miami (FL), USC, among others that year on the way to winning the Cotton Bowl.
> 
> According to the same source, Montana had 72 carries that year...
> 
> Elway was a stud; Montana is a legend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Montana is a legend thanks to a great coach who designed an offense to make up for his lacks.. He's also a legend because he had the greatest receiver of all time. One of the greatest backs to catch the ball out of the backfield of all time. And a defense who kept the ball in the hands of the offense.
> 
> Elways is the greatest of all time based on pure talent. toughness, knowledge of the game. And the fact that many of those Denver teams weren't that great, but his talent alone made them perrenial contenders.
> 
> The premise of this thread is best quarterback......The best quarterback was John Elway.
Click to expand...


That would depend on how you are coming to that conclusion. Are you looking at QB's who did the most with the little that they had? Or are we judging by Yards, TD records ect? Or maybe number of Superbowl wins? Someone might want to make a decision on what we are debating here? 

Elway better than Manning? = Insanity. Hell, I wouldn't put Elway over Favre. Elway ONE of the greatest ever? = Yeah I would say so. Like I said before, Fact is, When Manning retires he will own the most passing yards in NFL History record. ~BH


----------



## ginscpy

Manning didn't  win a NC at Tenn.

Has one SB win.

Doesnt equate to best-ever.......................


----------



## Wicked Jester

BolshevikHunter said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Elway had HOF Shannon Sharpe; it wasn't as if he was throwing the ball to nobody...jeezus.  I seem to remember them having an impressive running back a few years there too...Terrel Davis??
> 
> I will say this; the overall talent of the 49ers (especially the 89 team) was much higher than the average talent of the Broncos and any other team.  I would argue that if you took Jerry Rice and put him on a lesser team, he'd been less spectacular--you can't double him when there is Taylor and Jones on the routes too and a game breaking running back in the backfield.
> 
> As for Notre Dame not playing a tough schedule...here is what one source says:
> 1978 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Schedule and Results | College Football at Sports-Reference.com
> 
> 
> 8th hardest schedule isn't cheddar.  They played Michigan, Tennessee, Purdue, Miami (FL), USC, among others that year on the way to winning the Cotton Bowl.
> 
> According to the same source, Montana had 72 carries that year...
> 
> Elway was a stud; Montana is a legend.
> 
> 
> 
> Montana is a legend thanks to a great coach who designed an offense to make up for his lacks.. He's also a legend because he had the greatest receiver of all time. One of the greatest backs to catch the ball out of the backfield of all time. And a defense who kept the ball in the hands of the offense.
> 
> Elways is the greatest of all time based on pure talent. toughness, knowledge of the game. And the fact that many of those Denver teams weren't that great, but his talent alone made them perrenial contenders.
> 
> The premise of this thread is best quarterback......The best quarterback was John Elway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That would depend on how you are coming to that conclusion. Are you looking at QB's who did the most with the little that they had? Or are we judging by Yards, TD records ect? Or maybe number of Superbowl wins? Someone might want to make a decision on what we are debating here?
> 
> Elway better than Manning? = Insanity. Hell, I wouldn't put Elway over Favre. Elway ONE of the greatest ever? = Yeah I would say so. Like I said before, Fact is, When Manning retires he will own the most passing yards in NFL History record. ~BH
Click to expand...

Based on pure talent, and giving your team a chance to win, even when your team ain't all that, It's John Elway.

Look at Manning, a great quarterback, but basically one dimensional. Can't run to save his life....Face it, look at the Giants last Super Bowl win, Eli's famous play. Peyton's ass would have been sacked. Why, cause he's stiff, and can't run.

I'm basing my choice on pure talent, toughness, knowledge of the game, and the ability to take a mediocre team and make them a perrenial threat.

It's one of those questions that will always be argued, and very few will agree upon.....Most people vote based on heart, and whether their team is involved.

I'm a die hard USC fan, and former L.A. Ram fanatic.....I never rooted for John Elway, or had a connection with him. I simply base my vote on what I saw from him all those years.

If I'm starting a team, Elway is my Quarterback.


----------



## BolshevikHunter

Wicked Jester said:


> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Montana is a legend thanks to a great coach who designed an offense to make up for his lacks.. He's also a legend because he had the greatest receiver of all time. One of the greatest backs to catch the ball out of the backfield of all time. And a defense who kept the ball in the hands of the offense.
> 
> Elways is the greatest of all time based on pure talent. toughness, knowledge of the game. And the fact that many of those Denver teams weren't that great, but his talent alone made them perrenial contenders.
> 
> The premise of this thread is best quarterback......The best quarterback was John Elway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would depend on how you are coming to that conclusion. Are you looking at QB's who did the most with the little that they had? Or are we judging by Yards, TD records ect? Or maybe number of Superbowl wins? Someone might want to make a decision on what we are debating here?
> 
> Elway better than Manning? = Insanity. Hell, I wouldn't put Elway over Favre. Elway ONE of the greatest ever? = Yeah I would say so. Like I said before, Fact is, When Manning retires he will own the most passing yards in NFL History record. ~BH
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Based on pure talent, and giving your team a chance to win, even when your team ain't all that, It's John Elway.
> 
> Look at Manning, a great quarterback, but basically one dimensional. Can't run to save his life....Face it, look at the Giants last Super Bowl win, Eli's famous play. Peyton's ass would have been sacked. Why, cause he's stiff, and can't run.
> 
> I'm basing my choice on pure talent, toughness, knowledge of the game, and the ability to take a mediocre team and make them a perrenial threat.
> 
> It's one of those questions that will always be argued, and very few will agree upon.....Most people vote based on heart, and whether their team is involved.
> 
> I'm a die hard USC fan, and former L.A. Ram fanatic.....I never rooted for John Elway, or had a connection with him. I simply base my vote on what I saw from him all those years.
> 
> If I'm starting a team, Elway is my Quarterback.
Click to expand...


Well, If that is how you are judging this, then I would go with Favre. When it comes to stats though, Manning will finish as the king. I do respect John Elway's play alot though. I guess Marino never get's any love because he never won a Superbowl.  ~BH


----------



## candycorn

BolshevikHunter said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> That would depend on how you are coming to that conclusion. Are you looking at QB's who did the most with the little that they had? Or are we judging by Yards, TD records ect? Or maybe number of Superbowl wins? Someone might want to make a decision on what we are debating here?
> 
> Elway better than Manning? = Insanity. Hell, I wouldn't put Elway over Favre. Elway ONE of the greatest ever? = Yeah I would say so. Like I said before, Fact is, When Manning retires he will own the most passing yards in NFL History record. ~BH
> 
> 
> 
> Based on pure talent, and giving your team a chance to win, even when your team ain't all that, It's John Elway.
> 
> Look at Manning, a great quarterback, but basically one dimensional. Can't run to save his life....Face it, look at the Giants last Super Bowl win, Eli's famous play. Peyton's ass would have been sacked. Why, cause he's stiff, and can't run.
> 
> I'm basing my choice on pure talent, toughness, knowledge of the game, and the ability to take a mediocre team and make them a perrenial threat.
> 
> It's one of those questions that will always be argued, and very few will agree upon.....Most people vote based on heart, and whether their team is involved.
> 
> I'm a die hard USC fan, and former L.A. Ram fanatic.....I never rooted for John Elway, or had a connection with him. I simply base my vote on what I saw from him all those years.
> 
> If I'm starting a team, Elway is my Quarterback.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, If that is how you are judging this, then I would go with Favre. When it comes to stats though, Manning will finish as the king. I do respect John Elway's play alot though. I guess Marino never get's any love because he never won a Superbowl.  ~BH
Click to expand...


I guess thats what I don't understand; if you're just going by...



> pure talent, toughness, knowledge of the game, and the ability to take a mediocre team and make them a perrenial threat.



Marino would be your guy.  He threw for 10,000 more yards than Elway playing  only 1 more year. He lead the league in passing 5 years (3 years in a row so he didn't sneak up on anybody) He didn't have a HOF receiver to throw to at all like Elway did.  

Miami defenses were a joke for his entire tenure; 
	Def Rank
Year	Pts	Yds
1999	19	5
1998	1	3
1997	16	26
1996	17	17
1995	10	16
1994	17	19
1993	24	20
1992	11	10
1991	24	25
1990	4	7
1989	22	24
1988	24	26
1987	16	26
1986	26	26
1985	12	23
1984	7	19
1983 1        7 


the only joke funnier was their running game which featured illuminaries such as the following:

	Top Players
Year	Passing	Rushing

1999	Marino	Johnson
1998	Marino	Abdul-Jabbar
1997	Marino	Abdul-Jabbar
1996	Marino	Abdul-Jabbar
1995	Marino	Parmalee
1994	Marino	Parmalee
1993	Mitchell	Higgs
1992	Marino	Higgs
1991	Marino	Higgs
1990	Marino	Smith
1989	Marino	Smith
1988	Marino	Hampton
1987	Marino	Stradford
1986	Marino	Hampton
1985	Marino	Nathan
1984	Marino	Bennett
1983	Marino	Franklin

Marino played hurt most of his last 7 years so toughness is at least a wash.  Knowledge of the game...Elway was a coach's son so it's probably hard to top him and, while this is no great measure, Dan is a studio analyst for CBS so I'm guessing he's no slouch.  And in terms of being a threat, Denver does have more SB appearances than MIA; thats true but being in the AFC East with the great Bills teams of the era was harder than Denver having a comparative cake walk  in the AFC West with user-friendly KC, OAK, SD, and the Seahawks if memory serves.

Marino is on my Mt. Rushmore of 4 best ever (I only judge QB's I saw play so I could appreciate the team mates, the rules, and the competition as well as their performances) as is Mr. John Elway.  I'd feel comfortable with either one guiding my team.  

Still I'd take Joe Montana over any of them.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

BolshevikHunter said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Elway had HOF Shannon Sharpe; it wasn't as if he was throwing the ball to nobody...jeezus.  I seem to remember them having an impressive running back a few years there too...Terrel Davis??
> 
> I will say this; the overall talent of the 49ers (especially the 89 team) was much higher than the average talent of the Broncos and any other team.  I would argue that if you took Jerry Rice and put him on a lesser team, he'd been less spectacular--you can't double him when there is Taylor and Jones on the routes too and a game breaking running back in the backfield.
> 
> As for Notre Dame not playing a tough schedule...here is what one source says:
> 1978 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Schedule and Results | College Football at Sports-Reference.com
> 
> 
> 8th hardest schedule isn't cheddar.  They played Michigan, Tennessee, Purdue, Miami (FL), USC, among others that year on the way to winning the Cotton Bowl.
> 
> According to the same source, Montana had 72 carries that year...
> 
> Elway was a stud; Montana is a legend.
> 
> 
> 
> Montana is a legend thanks to a great coach who designed an offense to make up for his lacks.. He's also a legend because he had the greatest receiver of all time. One of the greatest backs to catch the ball out of the backfield of all time. And a defense who kept the ball in the hands of the offense.
> 
> Elways is the greatest of all time based on pure talent. toughness, knowledge of the game. And the fact that many of those Denver teams weren't that great, but his talent alone made them perrenial contenders.
> 
> The premise of this thread is best quarterback......The best quarterback was John Elway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That would depend on how you are coming to that conclusion. Are you looking at QB's who did the most with the little that they had? Or are we judging by Yards, TD records ect? Or maybe number of Superbowl wins? Someone might want to make a decision on what we are debating here?
> 
> Elway better than Manning? = Insanity. Hell, I wouldn't put Elway over Favre. Elway ONE of the greatest ever? = Yeah I would say so. Like I said before, Fact is, When Manning retires he will own the most passing yards in NFL History record. ~BH
Click to expand...


Big freaking deal,just like Marino,in any big game,he panics and gets scared.He finally kept his composure that one year and made it to the superbowl and only one because they were playing a team that was carried there by defense and special teams once he played against a REAL quarterback in the superbowl against  Drew Brees and couldnt stay on the field all day because they had a good offense,he couldnt deliver against a good football team with a GOOD quaterback.manning couldnt carry Montana's jockstrap or many of those other quarterbacks that have been mentioned.


----------



## JamesInFlorida

9/11 inside job said:


> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Montana is a legend thanks to a great coach who designed an offense to make up for his lacks.. He's also a legend because he had the greatest receiver of all time. One of the greatest backs to catch the ball out of the backfield of all time. And a defense who kept the ball in the hands of the offense.
> 
> Elways is the greatest of all time based on pure talent. toughness, knowledge of the game. And the fact that many of those Denver teams weren't that great, but his talent alone made them perrenial contenders.
> 
> The premise of this thread is best quarterback......The best quarterback was John Elway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would depend on how you are coming to that conclusion. Are you looking at QB's who did the most with the little that they had? Or are we judging by Yards, TD records ect? Or maybe number of Superbowl wins? Someone might want to make a decision on what we are debating here?
> 
> Elway better than Manning? = Insanity. Hell, I wouldn't put Elway over Favre. Elway ONE of the greatest ever? = Yeah I would say so. Like I said before, Fact is, When Manning retires he will own the most passing yards in NFL History record. ~BH
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Big freaking deal,just like Marino,in any big game,he panics and gets scared.He finally kept his composure that one year and made it to the superbowl and only one because they were playing a team that was carried there by defense and special teams once he played against a REAL quarterback in the superbowl against  Drew Brees and couldnt stay on the field all day because they had a good offense,he couldnt deliver against a good football team with a GOOD quaterback.manning couldnt carry Montana's jockstrap or many of those other quarterbacks that have been mentioned.
Click to expand...


Now I'm a big Brees fan-but in no way is Brees better than Manning.


----------



## candycorn

JamesInFlorida said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> That would depend on how you are coming to that conclusion. Are you looking at QB's who did the most with the little that they had? Or are we judging by Yards, TD records ect? Or maybe number of Superbowl wins? Someone might want to make a decision on what we are debating here?
> 
> Elway better than Manning? = Insanity. Hell, I wouldn't put Elway over Favre. Elway ONE of the greatest ever? = Yeah I would say so. Like I said before, Fact is, When Manning retires he will own the most passing yards in NFL History record. ~BH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big freaking deal,just like Marino,in any big game,he panics and gets scared.He finally kept his composure that one year and made it to the superbowl and only one because they were playing a team that was carried there by defense and special teams once he played against a REAL quarterback in the superbowl against  Drew Brees and couldnt stay on the field all day because they had a good offense,he couldnt deliver against a good football team with a GOOD quaterback.manning couldnt carry Montana's jockstrap or many of those other quarterbacks that have been mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now I'm a big Brees fan-but in no way is Brees better than Manning.
Click to expand...


No fair; you're only backed up by stats, facts, figures, and the opinions of every expert under the sun.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

JamesInFlorida said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> That would depend on how you are coming to that conclusion. Are you looking at QB's who did the most with the little that they had? Or are we judging by Yards, TD records ect? Or maybe number of Superbowl wins? Someone might want to make a decision on what we are debating here?
> 
> Elway better than Manning? = Insanity. Hell, I wouldn't put Elway over Favre. Elway ONE of the greatest ever? = Yeah I would say so. Like I said before, Fact is, When Manning retires he will own the most passing yards in NFL History record. ~BH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big freaking deal,just like Marino,in any big game,he panics and gets scared.He finally kept his composure that one year and made it to the superbowl and only one because they were playing a team that was carried there by defense and special teams once he played against a REAL quarterback in the superbowl against  Drew Brees and couldnt stay on the field all day because they had a good offense,he couldnt deliver against a good football team with a GOOD quaterback.manning couldnt carry Montana's jockstrap or many of those other quarterbacks that have been mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now I'm a big Brees fan-but in no way is Brees better than Manning.
Click to expand...


I wasnt implying that.I was just saying that once Manning faced a GOOD quarterback in the superbowl,he couldnt win.He could only win when he faced a has been quarterback  who is now a benchwarmer  named rex grossman.


----------



## JimH52

9/11 inside job said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Big freaking deal,just like Marino,in any big game,he panics and gets scared.He finally kept his composure that one year and made it to the superbowl and only one because they were playing a team that was carried there by defense and special teams once he played against a REAL quarterback in the superbowl against  Drew Brees and couldnt stay on the field all day because they had a good offense,he couldnt deliver against a good football team with a GOOD quaterback.manning couldnt carry Montana's jockstrap or many of those other quarterbacks that have been mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm a big Brees fan-but in no way is Brees better than Manning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wasnt implying that.I was just saying that once Manning faced a GOOD quarterback in the superbowl,he couldnt win.He could only win when he faced a has been quarterback  who is now a benchwarmer  named rex grossman.
Click to expand...


He will still hold most, if not all, of the passing records when he retires.  He didn't have the weapons that Montana had.


----------



## BolshevikHunter

candycorn said:


> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Based on pure talent, and giving your team a chance to win, even when your team ain't all that, It's John Elway.
> 
> Look at Manning, a great quarterback, but basically one dimensional. Can't run to save his life....Face it, look at the Giants last Super Bowl win, Eli's famous play. Peyton's ass would have been sacked. Why, cause he's stiff, and can't run.
> 
> I'm basing my choice on pure talent, toughness, knowledge of the game, and the ability to take a mediocre team and make them a perrenial threat.
> 
> It's one of those questions that will always be argued, and very few will agree upon.....Most people vote based on heart, and whether their team is involved.
> 
> I'm a die hard USC fan, and former L.A. Ram fanatic.....I never rooted for John Elway, or had a connection with him. I simply base my vote on what I saw from him all those years.
> 
> If I'm starting a team, Elway is my Quarterback.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, If that is how you are judging this, then I would go with Favre. When it comes to stats though, Manning will finish as the king. I do respect John Elway's play alot though. I guess Marino never get's any love because he never won a Superbowl.  ~BH
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess thats what I don't understand; if you're just going by...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pure talent, toughness, knowledge of the game, and the ability to take a mediocre team and make them a perrenial threat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Marino would be your guy.  He threw for 10,000 more yards than Elway playing  only 1 more year. He lead the league in passing 5 years (3 years in a row so he didn't sneak up on anybody) He didn't have a HOF receiver to throw to at all like Elway did.
> 
> Miami defenses were a joke for his entire tenure;
> Def Rank
> Year	Pts	Yds
> 1999	19	5
> 1998	1	3
> 1997	16	26
> 1996	17	17
> 1995	10	16
> 1994	17	19
> 1993	24	20
> 1992	11	10
> 1991	24	25
> 1990	4	7
> 1989	22	24
> 1988	24	26
> 1987	16	26
> 1986	26	26
> 1985	12	23
> 1984	7	19
> 1983 1        7
> 
> 
> the only joke funnier was their running game which featured illuminaries such as the following:
> 
> Top Players
> Year	Passing	Rushing
> 
> 1999	Marino	Johnson
> 1998	Marino	Abdul-Jabbar
> 1997	Marino	Abdul-Jabbar
> 1996	Marino	Abdul-Jabbar
> 1995	Marino	Parmalee
> 1994	Marino	Parmalee
> 1993	Mitchell	Higgs
> 1992	Marino	Higgs
> 1991	Marino	Higgs
> 1990	Marino	Smith
> 1989	Marino	Smith
> 1988	Marino	Hampton
> 1987	Marino	Stradford
> 1986	Marino	Hampton
> 1985	Marino	Nathan
> 1984	Marino	Bennett
> 1983	Marino	Franklin
> 
> Marino played hurt most of his last 7 years so toughness is at least a wash.  Knowledge of the game...Elway was a coach's son so it's probably hard to top him and, while this is no great measure, Dan is a studio analyst for CBS so I'm guessing he's no slouch.  And in terms of being a threat, Denver does have more SB appearances than MIA; thats true but being in the AFC East with the great Bills teams of the era was harder than Denver having a comparative cake walk  in the AFC West with user-friendly KC, OAK, SD, and the Seahawks if memory serves.
> 
> Marino is on my Mt. Rushmore of 4 best ever (I only judge QB's I saw play so I could appreciate the team mates, the rules, and the competition as well as their performances) as is Mr. John Elway.  I'd feel comfortable with either one guiding my team.
> 
> Still I'd take Joe Montana over any of them.
Click to expand...


Well, You did put alot of time into this post, so I'll give yuh that bro. Anyway, I grew up in Northern California and I grew up a Niner fan. Watched all those superbowls. I think Joe is one of the top 3, but Manning is master sugeon who never has had the best wide reviever to ever play the game to throw to. ~BH


----------



## BolshevikHunter

9/11 inside job said:


> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Montana is a legend thanks to a great coach who designed an offense to make up for his lacks.. He's also a legend because he had the greatest receiver of all time. One of the greatest backs to catch the ball out of the backfield of all time. And a defense who kept the ball in the hands of the offense.
> 
> Elways is the greatest of all time based on pure talent. toughness, knowledge of the game. And the fact that many of those Denver teams weren't that great, but his talent alone made them perrenial contenders.
> 
> The premise of this thread is best quarterback......The best quarterback was John Elway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would depend on how you are coming to that conclusion. Are you looking at QB's who did the most with the little that they had? Or are we judging by Yards, TD records ect? Or maybe number of Superbowl wins? Someone might want to make a decision on what we are debating here?
> 
> Elway better than Manning? = Insanity. Hell, I wouldn't put Elway over Favre. Elway ONE of the greatest ever? = Yeah I would say so. Like I said before, Fact is, When Manning retires he will own the most passing yards in NFL History record. ~BH
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Big freaking deal,just like Marino,in any big game,he panics and gets scared.He finally kept his composure that one year and made it to the superbowl and only one because they were playing a team that was carried there by defense and special teams once he played against a REAL quarterback in the superbowl against  Drew Brees and couldnt stay on the field all day because they had a good offense,he couldnt deliver against a good football team with a GOOD quaterback.manning couldnt carry Montana's jockstrap or many of those other quarterbacks that have been mentioned.
Click to expand...


"manning couldnt carry Montana's jockstrap"? Give me a break bro, That's ridiculious. He had Jerry Rice, the best ever.  Well, I respect alot of your opinions, but when it comes to this subject, I don't (in regards to the quote above). I could understand you picking Montana over Manning, but not that comment. ~BH


----------



## BolshevikHunter

JimH52 said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm a big Brees fan-but in no way is Brees better than Manning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wasnt implying that.I was just saying that once Manning faced a GOOD quarterback in the superbowl,he couldnt win.He could only win when he faced a has been quarterback  who is now a benchwarmer  named rex grossman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He will still hold most, if not all, of the passing records when he retires.  He didn't have the weapons that Montana had.
Click to expand...


There yuh have it. ~BH


----------



## candycorn

BolshevikHunter said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> That would depend on how you are coming to that conclusion. Are you looking at QB's who did the most with the little that they had? Or are we judging by Yards, TD records ect? Or maybe number of Superbowl wins? Someone might want to make a decision on what we are debating here?
> 
> Elway better than Manning? = Insanity. Hell, I wouldn't put Elway over Favre. Elway ONE of the greatest ever? = Yeah I would say so. Like I said before, Fact is, When Manning retires he will own the most passing yards in NFL History record. ~BH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big freaking deal,just like Marino,in any big game,he panics and gets scared.He finally kept his composure that one year and made it to the superbowl and only one because they were playing a team that was carried there by defense and special teams once he played against a REAL quarterback in the superbowl against  Drew Brees and couldnt stay on the field all day because they had a good offense,he couldnt deliver against a good football team with a GOOD quaterback.manning couldnt carry Montana's jockstrap or many of those other quarterbacks that have been mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "manning couldnt carry Montana's jockstrap"? Give me a break bro, That's ridiculious. He had Jerry Rice, the best ever.  Well, I respect alot of your opinions, but when it comes to this subject, I don't (in regards to the quote above). I could understand you picking Montana over Manning, but not that comment. ~BH
Click to expand...


You respect his opinions?  Why?


----------



## Wicked Jester

candycorn said:


> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Based on pure talent, and giving your team a chance to win, even when your team ain't all that, It's John Elway.
> 
> Look at Manning, a great quarterback, but basically one dimensional. Can't run to save his life....Face it, look at the Giants last Super Bowl win, Eli's famous play. Peyton's ass would have been sacked. Why, cause he's stiff, and can't run.
> 
> I'm basing my choice on pure talent, toughness, knowledge of the game, and the ability to take a mediocre team and make them a perrenial threat.
> 
> It's one of those questions that will always be argued, and very few will agree upon.....Most people vote based on heart, and whether their team is involved.
> 
> I'm a die hard USC fan, and former L.A. Ram fanatic.....I never rooted for John Elway, or had a connection with him. I simply base my vote on what I saw from him all those years.
> 
> If I'm starting a team, Elway is my Quarterback.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, If that is how you are judging this, then I would go with Favre. When it comes to stats though, Manning will finish as the king. I do respect John Elway's play alot though. I guess Marino never get's any love because he never won a Superbowl.  ~BH
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess thats what I don't understand; if you're just going by...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pure talent, toughness, knowledge of the game, and the ability to take a mediocre team and make them a perrenial threat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Marino would be your guy.  He threw for 10,000 more yards than Elway playing  only 1 more year. He lead the league in passing 5 years (3 years in a row so he didn't sneak up on anybody) He didn't have a HOF receiver to throw to at all like Elway did.
> 
> Miami defenses were a joke for his entire tenure;
> Def Rank
> Year	Pts	Yds
> 1999	19	5
> 1998	1	3
> 1997	16	26
> 1996	17	17
> 1995	10	16
> 1994	17	19
> 1993	24	20
> 1992	11	10
> 1991	24	25
> 1990	4	7
> 1989	22	24
> 1988	24	26
> 1987	16	26
> 1986	26	26
> 1985	12	23
> 1984	7	19
> 1983 1        7
> 
> 
> the only joke funnier was their running game which featured illuminaries such as the following:
> 
> Top Players
> Year	Passing	Rushing
> 
> 1999	Marino	Johnson
> 1998	Marino	Abdul-Jabbar
> 1997	Marino	Abdul-Jabbar
> 1996	Marino	Abdul-Jabbar
> 1995	Marino	Parmalee
> 1994	Marino	Parmalee
> 1993	Mitchell	Higgs
> 1992	Marino	Higgs
> 1991	Marino	Higgs
> 1990	Marino	Smith
> 1989	Marino	Smith
> 1988	Marino	Hampton
> 1987	Marino	Stradford
> 1986	Marino	Hampton
> 1985	Marino	Nathan
> 1984	Marino	Bennett
> 1983	Marino	Franklin
> 
> Marino played hurt most of his last 7 years so toughness is at least a wash.  Knowledge of the game...Elway was a coach's son so it's probably hard to top him and, while this is no great measure, Dan is a studio analyst for CBS so I'm guessing he's no slouch.  And in terms of being a threat, Denver does have more SB appearances than MIA; thats true but being in the AFC East with the great Bills teams of the era was harder than Denver having a comparative cake walk  in the AFC West with user-friendly KC, OAK, SD, and the Seahawks if memory serves.
> 
> Marino is on my Mt. Rushmore of 4 best ever (I only judge QB's I saw play so I could appreciate the team mates, the rules, and the competition as well as their performances) as is Mr. John Elway.  I'd feel comfortable with either one guiding my team.
> 
> Still I'd take Joe Montana over any of them.
Click to expand...

Marino had two of the best receivers in the game, Clayton and Duper.......Somewhere along the lines of 18000 receiving yards between the two of 'em.


----------



## JimH52

So, when Manning breaks all the passing records, what will the excuse be then?


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## Wicked Jester

JimH52 said:


> So, when Manning breaks all the passing records, what will the excuse be then?


He could throw.


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## Montrovant

JimH52 said:


> So, when Manning breaks all the passing records, what will the excuse be then?



He's not going to break any number of SB passing records I feel pretty sure.


----------



## JamesInFlorida

9/11 inside job said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Big freaking deal,just like Marino,in any big game,he panics and gets scared.He finally kept his composure that one year and made it to the superbowl and only one because they were playing a team that was carried there by defense and special teams once he played against a REAL quarterback in the superbowl against  Drew Brees and couldnt stay on the field all day because they had a good offense,he couldnt deliver against a good football team with a GOOD quaterback.manning couldnt carry Montana's jockstrap or many of those other quarterbacks that have been mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm a big Brees fan-but in no way is Brees better than Manning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wasnt implying that.I was just saying that once Manning faced a GOOD quarterback in the superbowl,he couldnt win.He could only win when he faced a has been quarterback  who is now a benchwarmer  named rex grossman.
Click to expand...


I get your point-but Manning played against a VERY good Chicago defense.


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## rightwinger

JimH52 said:


> So, when Manning breaks all the passing records, what will the excuse be then?




The excuse will be that he continually had one of the best teams in the league and couldn't win championships. One SB win against an inferior Chicago team does not make you the greatest of all time


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## rightwinger

JimH52 said:


> So, when Manning breaks all the passing records, what will the excuse be then?




The excuse will be that he continually had one of the best teams in the league and couldn't win championships. One SB win against an inferior Chicago team does not make you the greatest of all time


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## JamesInFlorida

rightwinger said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, when Manning breaks all the passing records, what will the excuse be then?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The excuse will be that he continually had one of the best teams in the league and couldn't win championships. One SB win against an *inferior Chicago team* does not make you the greatest of all time
Click to expand...


Chicago's defense was VERY GOOD. 

They gave up an average of just 15.9 points per game (3rd best in the NFL). 
Indianapolis? 212.5 (23rd best)

They gave up a net of of just 294 yards per game (5th best)
Indianapols: 332.3 (21st)

Yes Indianapolis had the 2nd best defense against the pass-but they also had the worst defense against the run. Remember that superbowl was in the rain down in Miami-obviously very rushing oriented game. I agree with the rest of your statement-but people really belittle just how good Chicago's defense was, and drastically overrated how good the Colt's defense was.

edit: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/sort/netYardsPerGame/position/defense/year/2006


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## rightwinger

JamesInFlorida said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, when Manning breaks all the passing records, what will the excuse be then?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The excuse will be that he continually had one of the best teams in the league and couldn't win championships. One SB win against an *inferior Chicago team* does not make you the greatest of all time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Chicago's defense was VERY GOOD.
> 
> They gave up an average of just 15.9 points per game (3rd best in the NFL).
> Indianapolis? 212.5 (23rd best)
> 
> They gave up a net of of just 294 yards per game (5th best)
> Indianapols: 332.3 (21st)
> 
> Yes Indianapolis had the 2nd best defense against the pass-but they also had the worst defense against the run. Remember that superbowl was in the rain down in Miami-obviously very rushing oriented game. I agree with the rest of your statement-but people really belittle just how good Chicago's defense was, and drastically overrated how good the Colt's defense was.
> 
> edit: 2006 NFL Team Total Stats - National Football League - ESPN
Click to expand...


Let's just say they were not considered one of the most formidable SB teams of all time. And they were an inferior team to the Colts. Peyton has never won a big game against a better team. Not in college, not in the pros

Manning is an all time great....just not THE all time great


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## BolshevikHunter

candycorn said:


> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Big freaking deal,just like Marino,in any big game,he panics and gets scared.He finally kept his composure that one year and made it to the superbowl and only one because they were playing a team that was carried there by defense and special teams once he played against a REAL quarterback in the superbowl against  Drew Brees and couldnt stay on the field all day because they had a good offense,he couldnt deliver against a good football team with a GOOD quaterback.manning couldnt carry Montana's jockstrap or many of those other quarterbacks that have been mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "manning couldnt carry Montana's jockstrap"? Give me a break bro, That's ridiculious. He had Jerry Rice, the best ever.  Well, I respect alot of your opinions, but when it comes to this subject, I don't (in regards to the quote above). I could understand you picking Montana over Manning, but not that comment. ~BH
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You respect his opinions?  Why?
Click to expand...


Why not? ~BH


----------



## JimH52

Montrovant said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, when Manning breaks all the passing records, what will the excuse be then?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's not going to break any number of SB passing records I feel pretty sure.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I think Kurt Warner holds a lot of them.  I don't see him on any list.


----------



## candycorn

Wicked Jester said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, If that is how you are judging this, then I would go with Favre. When it comes to stats though, Manning will finish as the king. I do respect John Elway's play alot though. I guess Marino never get's any love because he never won a Superbowl.  ~BH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess thats what I don't understand; if you're just going by...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pure talent, toughness, knowledge of the game, and the ability to take a mediocre team and make them a perrenial threat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Marino would be your guy.  He threw for 10,000 more yards than Elway playing  only 1 more year. He lead the league in passing 5 years (3 years in a row so he didn't sneak up on anybody) He didn't have a HOF receiver to throw to at all like Elway did.
> 
> Miami defenses were a joke for his entire tenure;
> Def Rank
> Year	Pts	Yds
> 1999	19	5
> 1998	1	3
> 1997	16	26
> 1996	17	17
> 1995	10	16
> 1994	17	19
> 1993	24	20
> 1992	11	10
> 1991	24	25
> 1990	4	7
> 1989	22	24
> 1988	24	26
> 1987	16	26
> 1986	26	26
> 1985	12	23
> 1984	7	19
> 1983 1        7
> 
> 
> the only joke funnier was their running game which featured illuminaries such as the following:
> 
> Top Players
> Year	Passing	Rushing
> 
> 1999	Marino	Johnson
> 1998	Marino	Abdul-Jabbar
> 1997	Marino	Abdul-Jabbar
> 1996	Marino	Abdul-Jabbar
> 1995	Marino	Parmalee
> 1994	Marino	Parmalee
> 1993	Mitchell	Higgs
> 1992	Marino	Higgs
> 1991	Marino	Higgs
> 1990	Marino	Smith
> 1989	Marino	Smith
> 1988	Marino	Hampton
> 1987	Marino	Stradford
> 1986	Marino	Hampton
> 1985	Marino	Nathan
> 1984	Marino	Bennett
> 1983	Marino	Franklin
> 
> Marino played hurt most of his last 7 years so toughness is at least a wash.  Knowledge of the game...Elway was a coach's son so it's probably hard to top him and, while this is no great measure, Dan is a studio analyst for CBS so I'm guessing he's no slouch.  And in terms of being a threat, Denver does have more SB appearances than MIA; thats true but being in the AFC East with the great Bills teams of the era was harder than Denver having a comparative cake walk  in the AFC West with user-friendly KC, OAK, SD, and the Seahawks if memory serves.
> 
> Marino is on my Mt. Rushmore of 4 best ever (I only judge QB's I saw play so I could appreciate the team mates, the rules, and the competition as well as their performances) as is Mr. John Elway.  I'd feel comfortable with either one guiding my team.
> 
> Still I'd take Joe Montana over any of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Marino had two of the best receivers in the game, Clayton and Duper.......Somewhere along the lines of 18000 receiving yards between the two of 'em.
Click to expand...


Best in the game at the time maybe but they were largely a phenomenon of Marino's brilliance.  By that I mean this; A). Dan Marino was the QB so the Dolphins threw the ball; they didn't throw the ball to take advantage of their "edge" at receiver.  B).  If they had a running back that was above average; neither one would have been in the pro bowl because the stats would have been abysmal; they'd be very much like the Rod Smith's and John Taylor's of the world; not bad receivers but nobody that you build your offense around.  I doubt there were may Defensive Coordinators losing a lot of sleep over the Marx Brothers.


----------



## candycorn

BolshevikHunter said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> "manning couldnt carry Montana's jockstrap"? Give me a break bro, That's ridiculious. He had Jerry Rice, the best ever.  Well, I respect alot of your opinions, but when it comes to this subject, I don't (in regards to the quote above). I could understand you picking Montana over Manning, but not that comment. ~BH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You respect his opinions?  Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why not? ~BH
Click to expand...


His ID for one thing....

Secondly the whole "Caleb Hanie should start" campaign he cosigned based on his "stellar" 8 for 14 *CAREER*


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## Wicked Jester

JimH52 said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, when Manning breaks all the passing records, what will the excuse be then?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's not going to break any number of SB passing records I feel pretty sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, I think Kurt Warner holds a lot of them.  I don't see him on any list.
Click to expand...

He's on mine.


----------



## Wicked Jester

candycorn said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess thats what I don't understand; if you're just going by...
> 
> 
> 
> Marino would be your guy.  He threw for 10,000 more yards than Elway playing  only 1 more year. He lead the league in passing 5 years (3 years in a row so he didn't sneak up on anybody) He didn't have a HOF receiver to throw to at all like Elway did.
> 
> Miami defenses were a joke for his entire tenure;
> Def Rank
> Year	Pts	Yds
> 1999	19	5
> 1998	1	3
> 1997	16	26
> 1996	17	17
> 1995	10	16
> 1994	17	19
> 1993	24	20
> 1992	11	10
> 1991	24	25
> 1990	4	7
> 1989	22	24
> 1988	24	26
> 1987	16	26
> 1986	26	26
> 1985	12	23
> 1984	7	19
> 1983 1        7
> 
> 
> the only joke funnier was their running game which featured illuminaries such as the following:
> 
> Top Players
> Year	Passing	Rushing
> 
> 1999	Marino	Johnson
> 1998	Marino	Abdul-Jabbar
> 1997	Marino	Abdul-Jabbar
> 1996	Marino	Abdul-Jabbar
> 1995	Marino	Parmalee
> 1994	Marino	Parmalee
> 1993	Mitchell	Higgs
> 1992	Marino	Higgs
> 1991	Marino	Higgs
> 1990	Marino	Smith
> 1989	Marino	Smith
> 1988	Marino	Hampton
> 1987	Marino	Stradford
> 1986	Marino	Hampton
> 1985	Marino	Nathan
> 1984	Marino	Bennett
> 1983	Marino	Franklin
> 
> Marino played hurt most of his last 7 years so toughness is at least a wash.  Knowledge of the game...Elway was a coach's son so it's probably hard to top him and, while this is no great measure, Dan is a studio analyst for CBS so I'm guessing he's no slouch.  And in terms of being a threat, Denver does have more SB appearances than MIA; thats true but being in the AFC East with the great Bills teams of the era was harder than Denver having a comparative cake walk  in the AFC West with user-friendly KC, OAK, SD, and the Seahawks if memory serves.
> 
> Marino is on my Mt. Rushmore of 4 best ever (I only judge QB's I saw play so I could appreciate the team mates, the rules, and the competition as well as their performances) as is Mr. John Elway.  I'd feel comfortable with either one guiding my team.
> 
> Still I'd take Joe Montana over any of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Marino had two of the best receivers in the game, Clayton and Duper.......Somewhere along the lines of 18000 receiving yards between the two of 'em.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Best in the game at the time maybe but they were largely a phenomenon of Marino's brilliance.  By that I mean this; A). Dan Marino was the QB so the Dolphins threw the ball; they didn't throw the ball to take advantage of their "edge" at receiver.  B).  If they had a running back that was above average; neither one would have been in the pro bowl because the stats would have been abysmal; they'd be very much like the Rod Smith's and John Taylor's of the world; not bad receivers but nobody that you build your offense around.  I doubt there were may Defensive Coordinators losing a lot of sleep over the Marx Brothers.
Click to expand...

If Marino is so great, and he is, why would their stats be abysmal if they had an above average running back?

The 49ers had one of the BEST backs to run AND catch, Roger Craig, and Jerry Rice sure didn't have abysmal numbers.


----------



## Montrovant

JimH52 said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, when Manning breaks all the passing records, what will the excuse be then?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's not going to break any number of SB passing records I feel pretty sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, I think Kurt Warner holds a lot of them.  I don't see him on any list.
Click to expand...


Other than most yards thrown in a SB, what SB records does Warner hold?


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## candycorn

Wicked Jester said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Marino had two of the best receivers in the game, Clayton and Duper.......Somewhere along the lines of 18000 receiving yards between the two of 'em.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best in the game at the time maybe but they were largely a phenomenon of Marino's brilliance.  By that I mean this; A). Dan Marino was the QB so the Dolphins threw the ball; they didn't throw the ball to take advantage of their "edge" at receiver.  B).  If they had a running back that was above average; neither one would have been in the pro bowl because the stats would have been abysmal; they'd be very much like the Rod Smith's and John Taylor's of the world; not bad receivers but nobody that you build your offense around.  I doubt there were may Defensive Coordinators losing a lot of sleep over the Marx Brothers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If Marino is so great, and he is, why would their stats be abysmal if they had an above average running back?
> 
> The 49ers had one of the BEST backs to run AND catch, Roger Craig, and Jerry Rice sure didn't have abysmal numbers.
Click to expand...


Okay...you're right; Roger Craig was on the same team with THE best receiver ever, Jerry Rice.  

Put Roger Craig on the Dolphins instead of Tony Nathan or Bernie Parmalee and he'd absolutely take touches away from the Marx Brothers because he is likely on a par with those two (personally, I think he's a better player myself).  

Also, the Marx Brothers complimented the vertical game of Marino.  I'd argue that Craig was a prototype back for the West Coast offense much like Marshall Faulk was.  

Still, I see your point; "abysmal" was likely too strong a word.


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## BolshevikHunter

candycorn said:


> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> You respect his opinions?  Why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not? ~BH
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His ID for one thing....
> 
> Secondly the whole "Caleb Hanie should start" campaign he cosigned based on his "stellar" 8 for 14 *CAREER*
Click to expand...


I don't know about all that, but I have had a few good discussions with the guy.  ~BH


----------



## LA RAM FAN

JamesInFlorida said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm a big Brees fan-but in no way is Brees better than Manning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wasnt implying that.I was just saying that once Manning faced a GOOD quarterback in the superbowl,he couldnt win.He could only win when he faced a has been quarterback  who is now a benchwarmer  named rex grossman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I get your point-but Manning played against a VERY good Chicago defense.
Click to expand...



yeah but because of Grossman,that defense had to stay on the field all day long.their luck of the defense and special teams carrying them thoughout the season ran out on them that day.When Manning faced an offense that HAD a good quarterback,the defense of the saints was able to rest on the sidelines for a good amount of time and Manning could not win.Till he beats a team in the superbowl with a very good quarterback like Bree's,he hasnt accomplished much.I could care less abotu big stats and big numbers,he is just like Marino,puts up a lot of impressive stats but cant win the big game unless its against a has been bench warmer quarterback.


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## LA RAM FAN

BolshevikHunter said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not? ~BH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His ID for one thing....
> 
> Secondly the whole "Caleb Hanie should start" campaign he cosigned based on his "stellar" 8 for 14 *CAREER*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know about all that, but I have had a few good discussions with the guy.  ~BH
Click to expand...


thats something the troll as always,got his ass handed to him on a platter on just like he does in EVERY discussion he gets involved in.This troll is just sore because of that.ignore him.


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## LA RAM FAN

Wicked Jester said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Marino had two of the best receivers in the game, Clayton and Duper.......Somewhere along the lines of 18000 receiving yards between the two of 'em.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best in the game at the time maybe but they were largely a phenomenon of Marino's brilliance.  By that I mean this; A). Dan Marino was the QB so the Dolphins threw the ball; they didn't throw the ball to take advantage of their "edge" at receiver.  B).  If they had a running back that was above average; neither one would have been in the pro bowl because the stats would have been abysmal; they'd be very much like the Rod Smith's and John Taylor's of the world; not bad receivers but nobody that you build your offense around.  I doubt there were may Defensive Coordinators losing a lot of sleep over the Marx Brothers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If Marino is so great, and he is, why would their stats be abysmal if they had an above average running back?
> 
> The 49ers had one of the BEST backs to run AND catch, Roger Craig, and Jerry Rice sure didn't have abysmal numbers.
Click to expand...


also,why did he choke in EVERY big game he played in?


----------



## HUGGY

*Joe Montana is the best QB who has ever played *



ginscpy said:


> tell me  im wrong



His son isn't.  He lost out in his attempt to be the starting QB for the U of W Huskies this year.


----------



## Wicked Jester

HUGGY said:


> *Joe Montana is the best QB who has ever played *
> 
> 
> 
> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> 
> tell me  im wrong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His son isn't.  He lost out in his attempt to be the starting QB for the U of W Huskies this year.
Click to expand...

Actually, I watched his son Nick play several times at Oaks Christian, just over the hill in Westlake Village. That kids got serious talent.


----------



## rightwinger

Wicked Jester said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Joe Montana is the best QB who has ever played *
> 
> 
> 
> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> 
> tell me  im wrong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His son isn't.  He lost out in his attempt to be the starting QB for the U of W Huskies this year.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, I watched his son Nick play several times at Oaks Christian, just over the hill in Westlake Village. That kids got serious talent.
Click to expand...


Was that the team that had Will Smiths and Wayne Gretskys kids??


----------



## Wicked Jester

rightwinger said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Joe Montana is the best QB who has ever played *
> 
> 
> 
> His son isn't.  He lost out in his attempt to be the starting QB for the U of W Huskies this year.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I watched his son Nick play several times at Oaks Christian, just over the hill in Westlake Village. That kids got serious talent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Was that the team that had Will Smiths and Wayne Gretskys kids??
Click to expand...

Yep!

In fact, Will Smith NEVER missed a game. He even flew back from China while directing his youngest son in the Karate Kid movie. Flew in on game day mornings, and flew back after the games every week......That's a dedicated father. And he's a hell of a nice guy.

It also produced Marc Tyler, Wendell Tylers son who now play at USC.

That area is a hotbed of football talent. When we were still living there, My father in Law and I had a choice of several area schools to go watch local talent......Clay Mathews Jr...Casey Mathews....Jimmy Clausen.

I still head over the hill when there's a good game going on.


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## ginscpy

I am watching Joe Montana pick apart USC in thegreen jersey game in 1977 49-17

USC was a good team 

Knew he was SPECIAL  [ maybe one of the best ever


----------

