# It's Happening Again - Homes Lost - Some Rent Control Needed



## protectionist (Oct 30, 2021)

It's happening again. 2 years ago I and hundred of others in my apartment complex were forced out of our homes (apartments), when a new landlord bought the complex we were living in, and immediately raised our rents from $550/month to $900/month (for a 1 bedroom).

Now the complex I'm living in (which I came to, to escape from the previous one), has also been bought, and this new owner, like in the other complex, has also raised the rents very high. From $600/month to $850/mo.

There are certain things to take note of here. This is not a typical apartment complex. Although there is no age restriction, almost all the residents here are senior citizens, retired, and on LOW fixed incomes. Many do not own a car. Must are unable to move, and the housing market here (Tampa, FL) is such that there simply is no place to move to around here that is less than about $900/mo for 1 bdrm. Most residents are trapped here, and either cannot pay the new rent, or like myself, can just barely pay it, and still cover other necessities.

So one greed freak, ignoring the fact that the complex is much more than just HIS business, it is also the homes of hundreds of people, looks at this as nothing but a lucrative cash cow to manipulate, just for him.

So now we get to the real crux of all this. It comes down to what government is. Why it exists. It is here for the PROTECTION of the people. It is FOR the people. As much as l respect business ownership and private enterprise (I owned my own business for 12 years in the past), I recognize that business owners should not be be allowed to do ANYTHING. Rights of private property must have limits where the public would be excessively burdened to the point of some people becoming homeless.

As is the case with any business, owners cannot be allowed to do anything at all. Amusement park owners must comply with regulations that keep their roller coasters and other rides, safe. Builders must meet codes that restrict asbestos and other carcenogenic materials, and those that would allow buildings to collapse.

It should be noted that unlike musical instruments, fishing equipment, computers, and stuff that are not necessities, housing is among the group of things that people HAVE TO HAVE. That makes its position unique, relative to government Only food is as essential. And when there is no alternative, the public should be protected by business price gouging. Gasoline, food, housing, electricity, and other necessities do require SOME degree of regulation.

Let's hear what some people who are in this predicament have to say, not those who own homes and don't face danger of becoming homeless. THis is far more than just somebody's economic ideology, who has no personal housing worries.  Th reason why this is in Health & Lifestyle is because the residents who are in serious peril, are the point of reference in this thread, not those involved in business investment.


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## EvilCat Breath (Oct 30, 2021)

Hear ya.  The same thing happened to me.  My little 1 bd house was sold.  The new owner said he could squeeze three Mexican families in.  Each would pay what I was paying.  I could triple my rent or get out.


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## Otis Mayfield (Oct 30, 2021)

Organize a union of renters. Get some rent control going.

Capitalism can suck. People were willing to pay more rent than you so they got the apartment.


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## progressive hunter (Oct 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> It's happening again. 2 years ago I and hundred of others in my apartment complex were forced out of our homes (apartments), when a new landlord bought the complex we were living in, and immediately raised our rents from $550/month to $900/month (for a 1 bedroom).
> 
> Now the complex I'm living in (which I came to, to escape from the previous one), has also been bought, and this new owner, like in the other complex, has also raised the rents very high. From $600/month to $850/mo.
> 
> ...


when you live under someone elses roof you live by their rules,, better to own,,


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## Mr Natural (Oct 30, 2021)

Own, don’t rent.


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## Hang on Sloopy (Oct 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> It's happening again. 2 years ago I and hundred of others in my apartment complex were forced out of our homes (apartments), when a new landlord bought the complex we were living in, and immediately raised our rents from $550/month to $900/month (for a 1 bedroom).
> 
> Now the complex I'm living in (which I came to, to escape from the previous one), has also been bought, and this new owner, like in the other complex, has also raised the rents very high. From $600/month to $850/mo.
> 
> ...


Legally the new owner has to honor all current leases, in most cases I have ever seen


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## Crepitus (Oct 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> It's happening again. 2 years ago I and hundred of others in my apartment complex were forced out of our homes (apartments), when a new landlord bought the complex we were living in, and immediately raised our rents from $550/month to $900/month (for a 1 bedroom).
> 
> Now the complex I'm living in (which I came to, to escape from the previous one), has also been bought, and this new owner, like in the other complex, has also raised the rents very high. From $600/month to $850/mo.
> 
> ...


This is what republicanism leads to.  Poor people with no place to.go.

Maybe you could hold a protest?  Oh wait, you hate protestors and think they should be run over.

Shoulda voted Democrat.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Oct 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> It's happening again. 2 years ago I and hundred of others in my apartment complex were forced out of our homes (apartments), when a new landlord bought the complex we were living in, and immediately raised our rents from $550/month to $900/month (for a 1 bedroom).
> 
> Now the complex I'm living in (which I came to, to escape from the previous one), has also been bought, and this new owner, like in the other complex, has also raised the rents very high. From $600/month to $850/mo.
> 
> ...


My sincerest condolences.  I don't have much more to say because of my situation, but my heart hurts for you and those in your situation.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 30, 2021)

Hang on sloopy said:


> Legally the new owner has to honor all current leases, in most cases I have ever seen


But when the lease ends.....


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## Hang on Sloopy (Oct 30, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> But when the lease ends.....


Well you have notice to move. When a lease ends it ends

Most landlords are piss poor because they have no idea what they are doing or how to screen people


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## lg325 (Oct 30, 2021)

If you can organize the residents to agree , do the math,  and see if as a group you can buy the complex. Do a professional business proposal  and make an offer.  All they can say is no or maybe yes.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Oct 30, 2021)

lg325 said:


> If you can organize the residents to agree , do the math,  and see if as a group you can buy the complex. Do a professional business proposal  and make an offer.  All they can say is no or maybe yes.


One possibility.  I would wish anyone wanting to do this the best of luck and offer whatever support I could.


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## fncceo (Oct 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> It's happening again. 2 years ago I and hundred of others in my apartment complex were forced out of our homes (apartments), when a new landlord bought the complex we were living in, and immediately raised our rents from $550/month to $900/month (for a 1 bedroom).



It's called "the market".  It has existed since the beginning of human interactions.  You can't wish it away with legislation.


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## Dekster (Oct 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> It's happening again. 2 years ago I and hundred of others in my apartment complex were forced out of our homes (apartments), when a new landlord bought the complex we were living in, and immediately raised our rents from $550/month to $900/month (for a 1 bedroom).
> 
> Now the complex I'm living in (which I came to, to escape from the previous one), has also been bought, and this new owner, like in the other complex, has also raised the rents very high. From $600/month to $850/mo.
> 
> ...



See if you qualify for Section 8 if you cannot find affordable housing or move to a cheaper city. The rest is just reality on the ground.  It can be tough for seniors but the same sort of thing happens in college towns across america as well.  I was absolutely shocked at how much off-campus housing was when I was in grad school for basically dumpier than dumpy dumps.  It was about twice the rent of a single family house in my home town.   Your choices were pay it, move way away and suffer the wintery commutes, or live in a trailer park.  There wasn't much other options.  1 person I knew lived in a flea trap motel for a semester until he could put a group house together because it was cheaper than a one bedroom apartment.


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## fncceo (Oct 30, 2021)

Crepitus said:


> Poor people with no place to.go.



Of course poor people have places to go ... anywhere but my neighborhood.


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## Donald H (Oct 30, 2021)

Ya'all rejected social reform of America that would bring it up to similar levels in the world's leading democracies. You called it communism!
And now ya'all want sympathy as the chickens start to come home.

You get fascism, the very opposite of communism!


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## fncceo (Oct 30, 2021)

Donald H said:


> You get fascism, the very opposite of communism!



Fascism is a political ideology.  Communism is an economic ideology.

Apples are not the opposite or oranges.


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## protectionist (Oct 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Organize a union of renters. Get some rent control going.
> 
> Capitalism can suck. People were willing to pay more rent than you so they got the apartment.


Hasn't gotten to that point yet. The rent go up January 1st. Some apartments (many) will be vacated. Owner may find he overestimated.  These apartments are not worth $850.  No central AC. No pool. no clubhouse, No tennis or basketball court, No exercise room.  None of the amenities common to apt complexes with $850 rents.  Bad neighborhood to boot, and not on the busline. 

Now they add a noisy leaf blower.  Made things worse.


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## protectionist (Oct 30, 2021)

progressive hunter said:


> when you live under someone elses roof you live by their rules,, better to own,,


In many cases yes. But if the neighborhood changes, and you want to get out, it could be had to sell.  Also, with ownership, you pay all the maintenance and repair expenses, and property tax


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## protectionist (Oct 30, 2021)

Hang on sloopy said:


> Legally the new owner has to honor all current leases, in most cases I have ever seen


They are short lived, and most people here don't even have a lease.


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## protectionist (Oct 30, 2021)

Crepitus said:


> This is what republicanism leads to.  Poor people with no place to.go.
> 
> Maybe you could hold a protest?  Oh wait, you hate protestors and think they should be run over.
> 
> Shoulda voted Democrat.


All the legislators and US congresswoman (Kathy Castor) are Democrats.  I told her about this problem 2 years ago.  Nothing got done.

If we did have a protest, it wouldn't be blocking traffic.


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## protectionist (Oct 30, 2021)

lg325 said:


> If you can organize the residents to agree , do the math,  and see if as a group you can buy the complex. Do a professional business proposal  and make an offer.  All they can say is no or maybe yes.


These people are all old & poor. They wouldn't have the money to buy a car, let alone an apartment complex with 100 units.


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## protectionist (Oct 30, 2021)

fncceo said:


> It's called "the market".  It has existed since the beginning of human interactions.  You can't wish it away with legislation.


But you can VOTE it away, when legislators allow the market to have priority above human needs.


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## protectionist (Oct 30, 2021)

Dekster said:


> See if you qualify for Section 8 if you cannot find affordable housing or move to a cheaper city. The rest is just reality on the ground.  It can be tough for seniors but the same sort of thing happens in college towns across america as well.  I was absolutely shocked at how much off-campus housing was when I was in grad school for basically dumpier than dumpy dumps.  It was about twice the rent of a single family house in my home town.   Your choices were pay it, move way away and suffer the wintery commutes, or live in a trailer park.  There wasn't much other options.  1 person I knew lived in a flea trap motel for a semester until he could put a group house together because it was cheaper than a one bedroom apartment.


I just saw a youtube video about how to get put high on the waiting list for Section 8.

Believe it or not if you check the box that you are a veteran, that puts you low on the list. If you check that you have been in prison, you go high in the list.  So criminals get the royal treatment. Veterans get the shaft. Who the hell is running this thing ?


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## fncceo (Oct 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> But you can VOTE it away, when legislators allow the market to have priority above human needs.



You know what happens when you vote away "the market"?







But ... there is always a silver lining... these guys will always have all they could ever want...


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## protectionist (Oct 30, 2021)

fncceo said:


> Of course poor people have places to go ... anywhere but my neighborhood.


Poor people are good people. I have a friend who was homeless, and was panhandling in the WalMart parking lot. All his money came from poor people. Rich people never gave him a dime.


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## fncceo (Oct 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> They wouldn't have the money to buy a car, let alone an apartment complex with 100 units.



Perhaps they should seek housing more in keeping with their economic situation?


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## fncceo (Oct 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Rich people never gave him a dime.



Rich people get rich by not wasting their money on bad investments.


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## protectionist (Oct 30, 2021)

fncceo said:


> You know what happens when you vote away "the market"?
> 
> But ... there is always a silver lining... these guys will always have all they could ever want...


Yeah, I DO know what happens. Rents go up but only a little bit, and people who have lived in their apartment for 20 years, don't get tossed out.


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## protectionist (Oct 30, 2021)

fncceo said:


> Perhaps they should seek housing more in keeping with their economic situation?


Perhaps we should have rents controlled more in keeping with human decency.


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## protectionist (Oct 30, 2021)

fncceo said:


> Rich people get rich by not wasting their money on bad investments.


Giving a dollar to a needy panhandler is not  bad investment.  God will reward you.  Neither is feeding homeless cats a bad investment.  24/7 non-toxic pest control and it makes you feel good.


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## Hang on Sloopy (Oct 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> They are short lived, and most people here don't even have a lease.


Well you are at the mercy of a landlord and have zero legal standing

Do you live in a shit hole. Sounds like a shit hole. don't know you and don't know your ideology

If you are a conserv, my sympathies. If a libturd, you deserve what you got, you voted for it........So which is it?


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## bodecea (Oct 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> It's happening again. 2 years ago I and hundred of others in my apartment complex were forced out of our homes (apartments), when a new landlord bought the complex we were living in, and immediately raised our rents from $550/month to $900/month (for a 1 bedroom).
> 
> Now the complex I'm living in (which I came to, to escape from the previous one), has also been bought, and this new owner, like in the other complex, has also raised the rents very high. From $600/month to $850/mo.
> 
> ...


Sounds like people who would have trouble getting a voter id and going to the polling places.   I thought such people were just too dumb and lazy.


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## bodecea (Oct 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Organize a union of renters. Get some rent control going.
> 
> Capitalism can suck. People were willing to pay more rent than you so they got the apartment.


Sounds like the OP is plotting socialism....or communism.


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## bodecea (Oct 30, 2021)

Crepitus said:


> This is what republicanism leads to.  Poor people with no place to.go.
> 
> Maybe you could hold a protest?  Oh wait, you hate protestors and think they should be run over.
> 
> Shoulda voted Democrat.


I wonder what the Governor of Florida could do about this........the OP should write him.


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## Hang on Sloopy (Oct 30, 2021)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> One possibility.  I would wish anyone wanting to do this the best of luck and offer whatever support I could.


First thing one should do is check the tax history of a property before renting. If they are really behind on real estate taxes, stay away

Then do a civil court check on landlord if possible. If they have a number of civil suits past and present, get away

These 2 strategies can help you avoid shitty landlords


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## bodecea (Oct 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> They are short lived, and most people here don't even have a lease.


Was that wise?


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## bodecea (Oct 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> All the legislators and US congresswoman (Kathy Castor) are Democrats.  I told her about this problem 2 years ago.  Nothing got done.
> 
> If we did have a protest, it wouldn't be blocking traffic.


This is a state issue.   Write your state reps and the Florida Governor.


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## Hang on Sloopy (Oct 30, 2021)

bodecea said:


> I wonder what the Governor of Florida could do about this........the OP should write him.


He's too busy rerouting shipping lanes for a food supply ninny. Your ninny thinks global warming is the issue..................LOLOL...God you are one dumb broad


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## Dekster (Oct 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I just saw a youtube video about how to get put high on the waiting list for Section 8.
> 
> Believe it or not if you check the box that you are a veteran, that puts you low on the list. If you check that you have been in prison, you go high in the list.  So criminals get the royal treatment. Veterans get the shaft. Who the hell is running this thing ?



It is possibly related to _some_ veterans having other forms of housing assistance through the VA/HUD. I don't know the ins and outs of Section 8 other than that it exists and that people pay on a sliding scale based on their income/number of dependents. My old boss had a bunch of rental units in the Section 8 program. It seemed like with his tenants, the ones with the least amount to pay out of pocket were the ones that would never pay their token rent until the day he took them to court to evict them. The ones with the higher out of pockets tended to pay on time in full.


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## Turtlesoup (Oct 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> It's happening again. 2 years ago I and hundred of others in my apartment complex were forced out of our homes (apartments), when a new landlord bought the complex we were living in, and immediately raised our rents from $550/month to $900/month (for a 1 bedroom).
> 
> Now the complex I'm living in (which I came to, to escape from the previous one), has also been bought, and this new owner, like in the other complex, has also raised the rents very high. From $600/month to $850/mo.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry to hear this.....it's true though, florida  and everywhere else home prices have shot through the roof and I am afraid it is about to get much much worse as hyper-inflation kicks in.


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## bodecea (Oct 30, 2021)

Hang on sloopy said:


> He's too busy rerouting shipping lanes for a food supply ninny. Your ninny thinks global warming is the issue..................LOLOL...God you are one dumb broad


That has nothing to do with this issue.   He should write the Governor of Florida since this is a state issue.   I'm sure there will be con-cern there.


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## fncceo (Oct 30, 2021)

bodecea said:


> I thought such people were just too dumb and lazy.



QED.


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## progressive hunter (Oct 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> In many cases yes. But if the neighborhood changes, and you want to get out, it could be had to sell.  Also, with ownership, you pay all the maintenance and repair expenses, and property tax


OMG!! you have to pay for your own shit and taxs???

oh the horror,,


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## Crepitus (Oct 30, 2021)

fncceo said:


> Of course poor people have places to go ... anywhere but my neighborhood.


There's those RWNJ Christian values.


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## Crepitus (Oct 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> All the legislators and US congresswoman (Kathy Castor) are Democrats.  I told her about this problem 2 years ago.  Nothing got done.
> 
> If we did have a protest, it wouldn't be blocking traffic.


Gonna hafta do something about the governor's office.


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## fncceo (Oct 30, 2021)

Crepitus said:


> There's those RWNJ Christian values.



It should be glaringly obvious from my avatar that I am not now, nor have I ever been, a xtian.


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## RodISHI (Oct 31, 2021)

My mom told me her property taxes went up again substantially. Her pension didn't so owning a place of your own is getting difficult too.

If someone is renting those property taxes going up that the owner has to pay would send the rent up too.


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## protectionist (Oct 31, 2021)

Crepitus said:


> Gonna hafta do something about the governor's office.


I will contact any and all politicians in Florida, no one exempt.


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## protectionist (Oct 31, 2021)

progressive hunter said:


> OMG!! you have to pay for your own shit and taxs???
> 
> oh the horror,,


Not horror, but much less convenient that having a rental where the owner is responsible for repairs and taxes.  And those repairs can be awfully expensive.  

Just supplying all the criteria, rather than the sweep under the rug.


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## protectionist (Oct 31, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> I'm sorry to hear this.....it's true though, florida  and everywhere else home prices have shot through the roof and I am afraid it is about to get much much worse as hyper-inflation kicks in.


And overpopulation is also already kicking in, especially with Biden flying aliens all over the country.  Coming from tropical countries, many of the new arrivals are choosing Florida as their new home, but without any thought of where they're going to live when they get there.

As a result of the massive influx of people, including many from New York, Tampa is saturated with people, and there are few if any apartments vacant.

Landlords taking full advantage of the massive in-migration, are raising rents to the rooftops.

Harms of illegal immigration

1. Americans lose jobs. (especially Whites due to affirmative action).
2. Wage reduction.
3. Tax $ lost (due to off books work + lower wages paid).
4. Remittance $$$ lost. ($148 Billion/year). Remittance flows worldwide in 2017
5. Tax $$ lost to immigrants on welfare.
6. Increased crime.
7. Increased traffic congestion.
8. Increased pollution.
9. Overcrowding in hospital ERs.
10. Overcrowding in recreational facilities.
11. Overcrowding in government offices.
12. Overcrowding in schools.
13. Decrease in funds available for entitlements.
14. Cultural erosion.
15. Overuse of scarce resources (oil, gasoline, fresh water, jobs, electricity, food, etc)
16. Introduction of foreign diseases
17. Influx of terrorists.
18. Wildfires
19. Litter
*20. Housing saturation.
21. Excessively high housing costs.*


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## surada (Oct 31, 2021)

Tipsycatlover said:


> Hear ya.  The same thing happened to me.  My little 1 bd house was sold.  The new owner said he could squeeze three Mexican families in.  Each would pay what I was paying.  I could triple my rent or get out.



You wouldn't find  a one bedroom in Atlanta for less than $1300 a month plus utilities.


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## surada (Oct 31, 2021)

protectionist said:


> And overpopulation is also already kicking in, especially with Biden flying aliens all over the country.  Coming from tropical countries, many of the new arrivals are choosing Florida as their new home, but without any thought of where they're going to live when they get there.
> 
> As a result of the massive influx of people, including many from New York, Tampa is saturated with people, and there are few if any apartments vacant.
> 
> ...



America "needs" more people, more everything. IMO its unsustainable, but that certainly is what seems to drive real estate. Everywhere you look in Atl there's a new 1000 unit high rise apt complex coming up.. Near me Corso is finishing a huge seniors complex where a studio starts at $7,000 a month .. Rents go to $15,000 a month. They are 14 months behind schedule and I question how they will rent up at those rates.


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## Mac-7 (Oct 31, 2021)

protectionist said:


> It's happening again. 2 years ago I and hundred of others in my apartment complex were forced out of our homes (apartments), when a new landlord bought the complex we were living in, and immediately raised our rents from $550/month to $900/month (for a 1 bedroom).
> 
> Now the complex I'm living in (which I came to, to escape from the previous one), has also been bought, and this new owner, like in the other complex, has also raised the rents very high. From $600/month to $850/mo.
> 
> ...


Who bought the apartments?

Are they chinese citizens?


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## progressive hunter (Oct 31, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Not horror, but much less convenient that having a rental where the owner is responsible for repairs and taxes.  And those repairs can be awfully expensive.
> 
> Just supplying all the criteria, rather than the sweep under the rug.


so you want other people to deal with the hassles of your life ,, but you want to dictate how they do it or bitch about it??


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## Donald H (Oct 31, 2021)

fncceo said:


> Fascism is a political ideology.  Communism is an economic ideology.
> 
> Apples are not the opposite or oranges.


No. Both Communism and Fascism are economic and political ideologies. Is this the latest twist the Trumpers are trying out so that they can accuse others of being both communists and fascists, without any difference? 
The first step for Americans is sorting out in their heads the difference between communism and socialism. Work on that and then get back to me.

Don't try passing off your nonsense on me!


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## bodecea (Oct 31, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I will contact any and all politicians in Florida, no one exempt.


Let us know if any of them even give you an acknowledgement.


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## Donald H (Oct 31, 2021)

bodecea said:


> Let us know if any of them even give you an acknowledgement.


Thanks. Some may try but I don't expect any kind of reasonable debate from the extreme rightists. You can clobber them in a debate and then they declare themselves to have won.
And then they turn to spamming and profanity.


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## Mr Natural (Oct 31, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I will contact any and all politicians in Florida, no one exempt.


Good luck with that!


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 31, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Yeah, I DO know what happens. Rents go up but only a little bit, and people who have lived in their apartment for 20 years, don't get tossed out.



Sounds like Cabrini Green.


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## Mr Natural (Oct 31, 2021)

fncceo said:


> Rich people get rich by not wasting their money on bad investments.


Or rent.


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## surada (Oct 31, 2021)

Mr Clean said:


> Or rent.



There is a point especially for the elderly that rental with good maintenance is a blessing.


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## protectionist (Nov 30, 2021)

I just talked to  guy who owns a furniture & home electronics store. He said > _"I can't believe it. I just got in some of the best inventory items I've ever had, this year, and my sales have been plumetting since last May. I don't get it"_

I do.  Did it ever occur to him that thousands of people in his sales area, are experiencing rent increases of hundreds of dollars a month ? 2 years ago I had a monthly rent increase of $350.  That's a loss to me of $4,200/year.  Now I'm experiencing a rent increase of $250/mo. ($3,000/yr)

Strange that business owners aren't seeing this - as well as being up in arms about it.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Nov 30, 2021)

Hang on sloopy said:


> Legally the new owner has to honor all current leases, in most cases I have ever seen



Depends on state and local laws


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## protectionist (Nov 30, 2021)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Depends on state and local laws


Current leases don't last long. Within  few months, you're paying the astronomical higher rent, or you're out (but to where ?).  Best solution is probably to buy a house (if you're able to)


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## Donald H (Nov 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I just talked to  guy who owns a furniture & home electronics store. He said > _"I can't believe it. I just got in some of the best inventory items I've ever had, this year, and my sales have been plumetting since last May. I don't get it"_
> 
> I do.  Did it ever occur to him that thousands of people in his sales area, are experiencing rent increases of hundreds of dollars a month ? 2 years ago I had a monthly rent increase of $350.  That's a loss to me of $4,200/year.  Now I'm experiencing a rent increase of $250/mo. ($3,000/yr)
> 
> Strange that business owners aren't seeing this - as well as being up in arms about it.


But that's the capitalist's right to increase rents. The system dictates that he can do so right up until he finds his rental properties remaining vacant, and then he may have to drop his asking price slightly.

And so you are suggesting that some controls or limitations are needed in the capitalist system.

The possibilities are only two. There are only buyers and sellers.

What are your ideas?

Here's the best I can do from a Canadian perspective:

1. Rent controls.
2. Increase the supply to meet the demand, which lowers prices.
3. Throw a extreme rightist tantrum.


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## protectionist (Nov 30, 2021)

Donald H said:


> But that's the capitalist's right to increase rents. The system dictates that he can do so right up until he finds his rental properties remaining vacant, and then he may have to drop his asking price slightly.
> 
> And so you are suggesting that some controls or limitations are needed in the capitalist system.
> 
> ...


Your number 1 (Rent controls) is the correct answer.

Looking at it by what is right/proper) >> the renter has just as much right to limit rent, as the capitalist has to increase it.  A reasonable balance should be the solution.  What exists now is totally UNreasonable.


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## Donald H (Nov 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Your number 1 (Rent controls) is the correct answer.


I think so too in a nuanced sort of way. But my country practices capitalism and so the ultimate solution always has to be connected with 'supply and demand'.

America is far from abandoning 'capitalism' and so rent controls' must be some sort of temporary and limited solution.

I'll leave it there for you reply for now, in order to be able to determine if you understand what I've said?

But fwiw, rent controls aren't a satisfactory solution for even socialists. Socialism has to be able to function within the bounds of capitalism and democracy, or it will fail.


----------



## Donald H (Nov 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Looking at it by what is right/proper) >> the renter has just as much right to limit rent, as the capitalist has to increase it.  A reasonable balance should be the solution.  What exists now is totally UNreasonable.


No, you haven't understood. The renter has a right to voice demands but he/she has no power to bring about those demands A 'renter' as such is not a part of the capitalism deal.

The renter's organisation, whatever that will be, can be a party to capitalism.
Then that organisation can apply pressure that can adjust 'supply and demand'.

So I think you now understand well enough to be able to discuss the question further!

And now fwiw, forced rent controls is a dictatorial solution to the problem.

And on a bright note, the American capitalist property owner can't take his buildings to China!

He can sell off his buildings and take the proceeds to China and build new rental units there, if that could be practical and profitable?.


----------



## surada (Nov 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Your number 1 (Rent controls) is the correct answer.
> 
> Looking at it by what is right/proper) >> the renter has just as much right to limit rent, as the capitalist has to increase it.  A reasonable balance should be the solution.  What exists now is totally UNreasonable.



You can always move. We don't have rent controls or price controls either. That's really not the way capitlism works. If your landlord has too many vacant apartments, he may get off the rate, but that doesn't help you in the immediate future..


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Nov 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> the renter has just as much right to limit rent,



The renter has zero right to limit rent.


----------



## surada (Nov 30, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> The renter has zero right to limit rent.



It sure is a weird idea, isn't it?


----------



## HenryBHough (Nov 30, 2021)

What a liberal America needs is some good solid Soviet-era poured concrete apartment blocks!


----------



## surada (Nov 30, 2021)

HenryBHough said:


> What a liberal America needs is some good solid Soviet-era poured concrete apartment blocks!
> View attachment 570116



Protector is a staunch Republican.. The Soviets weren't liberals.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Nov 30, 2021)

surada said:


> The Soviets weren't liberals.



What are the 5 biggest differences between the Soviets and liberals?


----------



## surada (Nov 30, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> What are the 5 biggest differences between the Soviets and liberals?



Communism and authoratarians and totalitarians and Fascists are not liberals.. Are you crazy?


----------



## Concerned American (Nov 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> It's happening again. 2 years ago I and hundred of others in my apartment complex were forced out of our homes (apartments), when a new landlord bought the complex we were living in, and immediately raised our rents from $550/month to $900/month (for a 1 bedroom).
> 
> Now the complex I'm living in (which I came to, to escape from the previous one), has also been bought, and this new owner, like in the other complex, has also raised the rents very high. From $600/month to $850/mo.
> 
> ...


While I empathize with your plight, one point that you have not mentioned is the fact that the previous owner had rents set to cover the costs of his business based upon the purchase price that he paid years ago.  In the current market, the new owner paid a greater amount for the same property so of course his prices increased as well.  The only answer is that tenants should create a hedge on their housing costs and purchase a home.  After all that is what you are doing for your landlord and he gets the hedge--not you.  Rent money is money thrown down the shitter and it leaves you vulnerable to the whims of the property owner.  Home ownership allows you to gain equity in the property plus your housing costs do not increase.  If you are worried about losing something, just look at it this way.  What do you have now?  What do you have to lose?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Nov 30, 2021)

surada said:


> Communism and authoratarians and totalitarians and Fascists are not liberals.. Are you crazy?



Awesome!

Should be easy for you to come up with 5 differences.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Nov 30, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> While I empathize with your plight, one point that you have not mentioned is the fact that the previous owner had rents set to cover the costs of his business based upon the purchase price that he paid years ago.  In the current market, the new owner paid a greater amount for the same property so of course his prices increased as well.  The only answer is that tenants should create a hedge on their housing costs and purchase a home.  After all that is what you are doing for your landlord and he gets the hedge--not you.  Rent money is money thrown down the shitter and it leaves you vulnerable to the whims of the property owner.  Home ownership allows you to gain equity in the property plus your housing costs do not increase.  If you are worried about losing something, just look at it this way.  What do you have now?  What do you have to lose?



I told him he needs to move somewhere cheaper/get a roommate. Maybe both.


----------



## Concerned American (Nov 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> These apartments are not worth $850. No central AC. No pool. no clubhouse, No tennis or basketball court, No exercise room. None of the amenities common to apt complexes with $850 rents. Bad neighborhood to boot, and not on the busline.


All of these things are subjective dependent on where you are.  If you were in SF or Seattle, you couldn't get a cardboard shack for $850 a month.  If you think you are not getting $850 in value, by all means, go down the street to where you can find that value, no one is forcing you to stay.


----------



## surada (Nov 30, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Awesome!
> 
> Should be easy for you to come up with 5 differences.



Save me the work.. Just speak your peace.. Communists aren't liberals..The Swedes and Danes and Norwegians are liberals. Live and let live is NOT a Soviet motto.


----------



## HenryBHough (Nov 30, 2021)

Rent control without property tax control is what causes urban decay.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Nov 30, 2021)

surada said:


> Communists aren't liberals..



They're closer to liberals than they are to conservatives.
Probably why liberals have been fellating them since 1917.


----------



## surada (Nov 30, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> I told him he needs to move somewhere cheaper/get a roommate. Maybe both.



The owner may have taken out a new mortgage for repairs or whatever... or for an increase in property taxes. Who knows.


----------



## surada (Nov 30, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> They're closer to liberals than they are to conservatives.
> Probably why liberals have been fellating them since 1917.



Todd, you're an idiot.  The Soviets were NEVER liberals.


----------



## Concerned American (Nov 30, 2021)

HenryBHough said:


> Rent control without property tax control is what causes urban decay.


Rent control is just another way to keep the slaves on the plantation.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Nov 30, 2021)

surada said:


> Todd, you're an idiot.  The Soviets were NEVER liberals.



Many liberals in the US are very much like the Soviets.


----------



## surada (Nov 30, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Many liberals in the US are very much like the Soviets.



lol You're an idiot.. How old are you?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Nov 30, 2021)

surada said:


> lol You're an idiot.. How old are you?



Old enough to notice you didn't come up with 5 differences.


----------



## Rigby5 (Nov 30, 2021)

Hang on sloopy said:


> Legally the new owner has to honor all current leases, in most cases I have ever seen



After the first year, no one normally bothers with lease agreements.


----------



## Rigby5 (Nov 30, 2021)

fncceo said:


> Fascism is a political ideology.  Communism is an economic ideology.
> 
> Apples are not the opposite or oranges.



It is true fascism is more political, a dictatorship of the wealthy elite, oligarchs.
And communism is a means by which excess capital can be raised collectively for communal and cooperative enterprise.
But the reality is that they also are opposites in that if allowed, the poor majority would use government to provide cheaper alternative competition to the monopolistic demands of the wealthy elite.
And the wealthy elite do not want the poor majority to have any alternative to their monopolistic demands.
This is not just true for housing, but wages, food, health care, etc.


----------



## Rigby5 (Nov 30, 2021)

protectionist said:


> In many cases yes. But if the neighborhood changes, and you want to get out, it could be had to sell.  Also, with ownership, you pay all the maintenance and repair expenses, and property tax



You actually are paying the maintenance, repairs, and property tax anyway, in your rent.
While a mortgage is rough at first, it stays the same, while rents always go up.
After just a few years, mortgage payments are always less than rents.
Plus you get tax right off for things like property tax, that renters are not allowed.


----------



## Rigby5 (Nov 30, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Old enough to notice you didn't come up with 5 differences.



There are way more than 5.
The soviets were not at all communist because with communism everyone gets their share of the profits, and the Soviets clearly had a wealthy elite separate from the masses.
The soviets could only maintain such an unequal distribution of resources by not allowing democratic representations.
Since liberals in the US support multi party, free and fair elections, they are nothing like soviets.
Liberals in the US do not necessarily have any problem with private enterprise, just that they believe essential social services should be provided whether or not they are huge profit makers that would attract entrepreneurs.  Health care and housing for the elderly obvious should not be just up for the highest bidder.  We should have price controls, subsidies, or public competition to prevent monopolies.


----------



## cnm (Dec 1, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Why it exists. It is here for the PROTECTION of the people. It is FOR the people. As much as l respect business ownership and private enterprise (I owned my own business for 12 years in the past), I recognize that business owners should not be be allowed to do ANYTHING.


I like how the free market becomes bad and big government becomes good when one's own ox is gored. What a hoot.


----------



## cnm (Dec 1, 2021)

It's almost as though you want to drag down real estate market highs. Shame. Shame.


protectionist said:


> The recent record stock market highs weren't bailouts, and didn't come from socialism.


----------



## cnm (Dec 1, 2021)

And now you want to throttle real estate growth. Oh the humanity, will no one think of the profits?


protectionist said:


> Donald Trump is a right winger, and he presented many very successful  free market capitalism solutions for 4 years, including the last quarter of 2020 having the highest GDP growth in US history. Highest stock market readings ever.  You are simply wrong and ridiculous.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 1, 2021)

Donald H said:


> I think so too in a nuanced sort of way. But my country practices capitalism and so the ultimate solution always has to be connected with 'supply and demand'.
> 
> America is far from abandoning 'capitalism' and so rent controls' must be some sort of temporary and limited solution.
> 
> ...


Since the 1930s, the US has been a blend of capitalism & socialism. I was born in 1946, in New York City. I grew up in a rent controlled apartment (whole city had rent control, and it still does today)


----------



## protectionist (Dec 1, 2021)

cnm said:


> It's almost as though you want to drag down real estate market highs. Shame. Shame.


The shame is on the greed freak landlords.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 1, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Since the 1930s, the US has been a blend of capitalism & socialism. I was born in 1946, in New York City. I grew up in a rent controlled apartment (whole city had rent control, and it still does today)



It was a bad idea in 1946, a worse idea today.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 1, 2021)

cnm said:


> And now you want to throttle real estate growth. Oh the humanity, will no one think of the profits?


Not easy to think of landlords' profits, when you're being forced out of your home where you've been living for years, and you really have nowhere to move to. 

That's what this thread is about, not landlords, real estate growth, or profits.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 1, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> It was a bad idea in 1946, a worse idea today.


Never been a better idea than right now, with out of control skyrocketing rents, and housing saturation.  Get forced out of your home, with nowhere to go, and you'll shut your mouth about "bad idea"


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Donald H said:


> No, you haven't understood. The renter has a right to voice demands but he/she has no power to bring about those demands A 'renter' as such is not a part of the capitalism deal.
> 
> The renter's organisation, whatever that will be, can be a party to capitalism.
> Then that organisation can apply pressure that can adjust 'supply and demand'.
> ...


What part of any deal anybody is, is a matter of what the American people, or the people of a state or city want it to be. Government of the PEOPLE, by the PEOPLE, for the PEOPLE. Not government of the landlords.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

surada said:


> You can always move. We don't have rent controls or price controls either. That's really not the way capitlism works. If your landlord has too many vacant apartments, he may get off the rate, but that doesn't help you in the immediate future..


Cannot move to anywhere relatively close by. Housing market is SATURATED. There is no rental housing available, that is anything close to affordable. In my case, I don't even have a car, and believe me, I'm not the only one.

Maybe YOU could "move".  That doesn't mean everybody else can.

I'm contemplating moving to another state that hasn't been attacked by thousands of in-migrants and a housing crisis, but it ain't gonna be easy.

As for capitalism, I know how it works, I owned my own business for 12 years, but the US is a combination of capitalism & socialism , with socialism intervening where and when needed. It's needed here and now, big time.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Never been a better idea than right now, with out of control skyrocketing rents, and housing saturation.  Get forced out of your home, with nowhere to go, and you'll shut your mouth about "bad idea"



_As cities become ever-more expensive, politicians and housing advocates keep calling for rent control. Economists think that’s a terrible idea. They say it helps a small (albeit noisy) group of renters, but keeps overall rents artificially high by disincentivizing new construction. So what happens next?_









						Why Rent Control Doesn’t Work - Freakonomics
					

As cities become ever-more expensive, politicians and housing advocates keep calling for rent control. Economists think that’s a terrible idea. They say it helps a small (albeit noisy) group of renters, but keeps overall rents artificially high by disincentivizing new construction. So what...



					freakonomics.com


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> The renter has zero right to limit rent.


Shut the fuck up, ASSCLOWN. What right the renter has to limit rent, is a matter of democracy. If the PEOPLE decide they want rent control, then rent control it is. And you can go fuck yourself, you greed freak scum.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> What part of any deal anybody is, is a matter of what the American people, or the people of a state or city want it to be. Government of the PEOPLE, by the PEOPLE, for the PEOPLE. Not government of the landlords.



*Not government of the landlords.*

Exactly!!!

This is America, screw private property!!!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> What right the renter has to limit rent, is a matter of democracy.



I agree!

Property is theft, eh comrade?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

surada said:


> It sure is a weird idea, isn't it?


The most "weird idea" is landlords raising rents 45%, 64% 100%, and even more than that, and morons sitting blabbering that that is OK, while people are forced out of their homes.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> when you're being forced out of your home where you've been living for years


The property is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.  If you are living there and don't want to pay what it is worth, then it is time to find another place to live.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> and morons sitting blabbering that that is OK, while people are forced out of their homes.



_their homes._

I underlined your error.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> The most "weird idea" is landlords raising rents 45%, 64% 100%, and even more than that, and morons sitting blabbering that that is OK, while people are forced out of their homes.


It is not YOUR home.  "Your" insinuates ownership.  You don't own it.  Would you think it would be right if you owned an ounce of gold that you bought at $32 but you were limited at what you could sell it for in a market where it was worth $2K?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> While I empathize with your plight, one point that you have not mentioned is the fact that the previous owner had rents set to cover the costs of his business based upon the purchase price that he paid years ago.  In the current market, the new owner paid a greater amount for the same property so of course his prices increased as well.  The only answer is that tenants should create a hedge on their housing costs and purchase a home.  After all that is what you are doing for your landlord and he gets the hedge--not you.  Rent money is money thrown down the shitter and it leaves you vulnerable to the whims of the property owner.  Home ownership allows you to gain equity in the property plus your housing costs do not increase.  If you are worried about losing something, just look at it this way.  What do you have now?  What do you have to lose?


Sorry but this thread is not talking about "owners", "costs of business", it is talking about the poeple who are being forced out of their homes.

As for me I have been preapproved for a VA loan but only up to $90K. Still it looks like I can mange to come up with a house but only by moving hundreds of miles away, which is going to be difficult.

Question is, what about the thousands of people leaving their homes who aren't veterans, can't a VA loan, and don't even have an income as high as mine ? Buy a tent, so some landlord can move from a $2 million home, to a $3 million home?  Sick.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> I told him he needs to move somewhere cheaper/get a roommate. Maybe both.


Oh just take some inconvenience? Go a step down ?  Let the landlord take the inconvenience?

Your idea.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> All of these things are subjective dependent on where you are.  If you were in SF or Seattle, you couldn't get a cardboard shack for $850 a month.  If you think you are not getting $850 in value, by all means, go down the street to where you can find that value, no one is forcing you to stay.


They are forcing us to leave, but there's nowhere to move to.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Sorry but this thread is not talking about "owners", "costs of business", it is talking about the poeple who are being forced out of their homes.
> 
> As for me I have been preapproved for a VA loan but only up to $90K. Still it looks like I can mange to come up with a house but only by moving hundreds of miles away, which is going to be difficult.
> 
> Question is, what about the thousands of people leaving their homes who aren't veterans, can't a VA loan, and don't even have an income as high as mine ? Buy a tent, so some landlord can move from a $2 million home, to a $3 million home?  Sick.


So the VA zero down worked then.  That is good.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Sorry but this thread is not talking about "owners", "costs of business", it is talking about the poeple who are being forced out of their homes.
> 
> As for me I have been preapproved for a VA loan but only up to $90K. Still it looks like I can mange to come up with a house but only by moving hundreds of miles away, which is going to be difficult.
> 
> Question is, what about the thousands of people leaving their homes who aren't veterans, can't a VA loan, and don't even have an income as high as mine ? Buy a tent, so some landlord can move from a $2 million home, to a $3 million home?  Sick.


What is sick is the fact that you believe it is my responsibility that you, for whatever reason, do not have a place to live.  I am not your parent, I didn't take you to raise.  Have you ever heard of personal responsibility and consequences.  Grow up.   My goodness, you're 75 years old.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> _As cities become ever-more expensive, politicians and housing advocates keep calling for rent control. Economists think that’s a terrible idea. They say it helps a small (albeit noisy) group of renters, but keeps overall rents artificially high by disincentivizing new construction. So what happens next?_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It helps a LARGE group of renters (all over most parts of the country). Landlords are stabbing the American people, especially older Americans, who have been paying taxes all their lives, while renting to rich foreigners, newly arrived with Biden's open doors.

These people never served in our military, never paid a dime to the US treasury, never worked here and helped our society to function, and they're getting the red carpet rolled out for them, by unscrupulous, money hungry landlords, in exchange for VOTES for Biden. Really sucks.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> They are forcing us to leave, but there's nowhere to move to.


Stand up for yourself man.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *Not government of the landlords.*
> 
> Exactly!!!
> 
> This is America, screw private property!!!


Private property is not a 100% right.  If an interstate needs to be built, your private property is trash.  If somebody decides to build a bowling alley next door to you, or a train track, goodbye to your peace and quiet. (and your property value)

There's plenty of ways that private property can be disaffected.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> I agree!
> 
> Property is theft, eh comrade?


No, it just has to adjust to things at certain times, without the landlords crying like a little baby who just lost a piece of his candy.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> _their homes._
> 
> I underlined your error.


I don't see any error. I spelled it their, same as you.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> If an interstate needs to be built, your private property is trash.


The property owner has to be reimbursed current property value even when imminent domain is declared.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I don't see any error. I spelled it their, same as you.


But it doesn't belong to the renter, moron, are you this slow.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> It is not YOUR home.  "Your" insinuates ownership.  You don't own it.  Would you think it would be right if you owned an ounce of gold that you bought at $32 but you were limited at what you could sell it for in a market where it was worth $2K?


*FALSE!*  And this is the first error that landlords and other high-horse landlords make. Whether renting or owning (and I've done both throughout my life) the domicile you live in is your HOME.  Period.

Landlords often have the idea, that the houses, apartments, etc that they rent, are only their toys for them to play with. This warped notion is a big part of the problem.
Pieces of gold are not the # 1 element of human survival.  Housing is (according to anthropologists)


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> But it doesn't belong to the renter, moron, are you this slow.


You are the slow one - see post # 124.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> The property owner has to be reimbursed current property value even when imminent domain is declared.


This thread is about PEOPLE being forced out of their homes...not property owners.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Stand up for yourself man.


Got no idea what that is supposed to mean. And for a person who goes by the name _"Concerned"_ American, you don't seem to be too concerned about thousands (actually millions) of your fellow Americans, who are being thrust into homelessness.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> *FALSE!*  And this is the first error that landlords and other high-horse landlords make. whether renting or owning (and I've done both throughout my life) the domicile you live in is your HOME.  Period.
> 
> Landlords often have the idea, that the houses, apartments, etc that they rent, are only their toys for them to play with. This warped notion is a big part of the problem.
> Pieces of gold are not the # 1 element of human survival.  Housing is (according to anthropologists)


And when you were buying that home that you "owned"  What happened if you didn't pay the mortgage?  You're a moron and not worthy of any more time.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> They're closer to liberals than they are to conservatives.
> Probably why liberals have been fellating them since 1917.


Hard to tell a modern day liberal from a communist. They are globalists 
(ie. INTERnationalists) same as any communist ever was.  Their economic policies are about the same.  Look at Biden. He has no country. He doesn't care about the USA, He's wrecking it. Then he goes overseas and plays pattycake with the Europeans.  Kisses China and Mexico's asses


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> And when you were buying that home that you "owned"  What happened if you didn't pay the mortgage?  You're a moron and not worthy of any more time.


Dumbass.  That doesnt make that house not a HOME, to who's living in it.  You don't get it.  Have you ever rented ?


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Got no idea what that is supposed to mean. And for a person who goes by the name _"Concerned"_ American, you don't seem to be too concerned about thousands (actually millions) of your fellow Americans, who are being thrust into homelessness.


You've been on this earth for 75 years.  If you are a parasite, I have no use for you.  This country was built on hard labor.  Not give aways.  If you've gamed the system for your whole life then you've gotten more than your worth.  Good night.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 2, 2021)

Who


protectionist said:


> Dumbass.  That doesnt make that house not a HOME, to who's living in it.  You don't get it.  Have you ever rented ?


 Who hasn't.  I didn't like it.  I bought MY OWN home and paid for it so I wouldn't have to be a parasite asking for rent control on SOMEBODY ELSE'S property.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> You've been on this earth for 75 years.  If you are a parasite, I have no use for you.  This country was built on hard labor.  Not give aways.  If you've gamed the system for your whole life then you've gotten more than your worth.  Good night.


You ass. I've WORKED all my life.  In machine shops, in motels, etc. I've NEVER gamed a system. You have no idea what the hell you're talking about. I served in the US Army + Army National Guard - I was combat engineer. I built M4T6 bridges - hardest work there ever has been in America. 

What have YOU done ? Invested your money, and then sit on your lazy ass, while the profits roll in ?

Keeping housing rents from going up 50-100%  in a single bound, is not gaming a system. It is keeping thieving, greedy landlords from destroying millions of peoples' lives, you blockhead.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Who
> 
> Who hasn't.  I didn't like it.  I bought MY OWN home and paid for it so I wouldn't have to be a parasite asking for rent control on SOMEBODY ELSE'S property.


Rent control under these conditions is not parasiting. In fact, I would call it just the OPPOSITE. It is the landlords who are parasiting upon the renters.

I dont know if you have any idea how drastic the situation is here in the Tampa Bay area, but if you do, and you still talk the way you do, then you would be about the lowest form of life that has ever existed on earth.


----------



## surada (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> The most "weird idea" is landlords raising rents 45%, 64% 100%, and even more than that, and morons sitting blabbering that that is OK, while people are forced out of their homes.



They have rights.. and the property belongs to them.. They pay the mortgage, upkeep and taxes.


----------



## surada (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Private property is not a 100% right.  If an interstate needs to be built, your private property is trash.  If somebody decides to build a bowling alley next door to you, or a train track, goodbye to your peace and quiet. (and your property value)
> 
> There's plenty of ways that private property can be disaffected.



You're off on a tangeant which has NOTHING to do with property owners or landlords.


----------



## surada (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> It helps a LARGE group of renters (all over most parts of the country). Landlords are stabbing the American people, especially older Americans, who have been paying taxes all their lives, while renting to rich foreigners, newly arrived with Biden's open doors.
> 
> These people never served in our military, never paid a dime to the US treasury, never worked here and helped our society to function, and they're getting the red carpet rolled out for them, by unscrupulous, money hungry landlords, in exchange for VOTES for Biden. Really sucks.



No landlords or property owners served in the military?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Oh just take some inconvenience? Go a step down ?  Let the landlord take the inconvenience?
> 
> Your idea.



Suck it up. Be a man. Do the work.

Stop whining like a liberal.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Private property is not a 100% right.  If an interstate needs to be built, your private property is trash.  If somebody decides to build a bowling alley next door to you, or a train track, goodbye to your peace and quiet. (and your property value)
> 
> There's plenty of ways that private property can be disaffected.



*Private property is not a 100% right.*

Not if you're the one benefitting from the theft, eh tovarisch?

* If an interstate needs to be built, your private property is trash*

In that case, the government should pay compensation.

* If somebody decides to build a bowling alley next door to you,*

Local noise regulations. 

*There's plenty of ways that private property can be disaffected.*

Well, you do love theft.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> No, it just has to adjust to things at certain times, without the landlords crying like a little baby who just lost a piece of his candy.



I know, only renters are allowed to cry like a little baby who just lost a piece of his candy.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I don't see any error. I spelled it their, same as you.



Your error is imagining a place a tenant rents is their home. Silly.
It belongs to the landlord. A conservative would understand that.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> *FALSE!*  And this is the first error that landlords and other high-horse landlords make. Whether renting or owning (and I've done both throughout my life) the domicile you live in is your HOME.  Period.
> 
> Landlords often have the idea, that the houses, apartments, etc that they rent, are only their toys for them to play with. This warped notion is a big part of the problem.
> Pieces of gold are not the # 1 element of human survival.  Housing is (according to anthropologists)



*Whether renting or owning (and I've done both throughout my life) the domicile you live in is your HOME. Period.*

You're lying. Period.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> This thread is about PEOPLE being forced out of their homes...not property owners.



Kill the greedy kulaks, eh comrade?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Hard to tell a modern day liberal from a communist. They are globalists
> (ie. INTERnationalists) same as any communist ever was.  Their economic policies are about the same.  Look at Biden. He has no country. He doesn't care about the USA, He's wrecking it. Then he goes overseas and plays pattycake with the Europeans.  Kisses China and Mexico's asses



*Hard to tell a modern day liberal from a communist. *

But enough about you.


----------



## Mr Natural (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> This thread is about PEOPLE being forced out of their homes...not property owners.


You’re not being forced out, you’re just being charged more.


----------



## Blues Man (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> It's happening again. 2 years ago I and hundred of others in my apartment complex were forced out of our homes (apartments), when a new landlord bought the complex we were living in, and immediately raised our rents from $550/month to $900/month (for a 1 bedroom).
> 
> Now the complex I'm living in (which I came to, to escape from the previous one), has also been bought, and this new owner, like in the other complex, has also raised the rents very high. From $600/month to $850/mo.
> 
> ...


How do you know that the owner's expenses haven't gone up?

Maybe the building needs repairs or the tax burden has changed ?

Maybe you should get together win a few other tenants and buy a multifamily home and then you could control your own expenses.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Suck it up. Be a man. Do the work.
> 
> Stop whining like a liberal.


Do WHAT 'work" ?  Telling government to do its job of protecting the American people isn't whining. It is exercising the constitutional right to petition the government. It's called being a responsible citizen, when some citizens (landlords) are being IRresponsible.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Do WHAT 'work" ?  Telling government to do its job of protecting the American people isn't whining. It is exercising the constitutional right to petition the government. It's called being a responsible citizen, when some citizens (landlords) are being IRresponsible.



The work of moving and or getting a roommate.
The work of moving and buying your own place.

Quit whining that the government needs to steal someone's property to give to you.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *Private property is not a 100% right.*
> 
> Not if you're the one benefitting from the theft, eh tovarisch?
> 
> ...


7 posts from you in my alerts this morning. It would be a good guess that you are nit an unbiased, objective poster in this thread. Quite the contrary, YOU"RE a LANDLORD, aren't you ?

And you're sure as hell not a low income renter, whose being forced out of his home, with nowhere to move to.  Which makes just about everything you say in thread, a pie of mush.

As for for your mushy posts >
1.  As a LL, YOU are the one benefitting from the theft of astronomical rent increases.
2.  Government should compensate for highway construction on your property - agreed.
3.  Local noise regulations often don't cover loud noises.  If they do that is govt regulation of business - like rent control.  You're starting to get the idea. 
4. YOU love theft > raising rents 50-100%.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> I know, only renters are allowed to cry like a little baby who just lost a piece of his candy.


Renters have a good beef (survival).  Landlords don't (greed).


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> 7 posts from you in my alerts this morning. It would be a good guess that you are nit an unbiased, objective poster in this thread. Quite the contrary, YOU"RE a LANDLORD, aren't you ?
> 
> And you're sure as hell not a low income renter, whose being forced out of his home, with nowhere to move to.  Which makes just about everything you say in thread, a pie of mush.
> 
> ...


*
Quite the contrary, YOU"RE a LANDLORD, aren't you ?*

Fuck that.
I'd never want to deal with whiny tenants.
So many better, more liquid, less stressful investments.

*And you're sure as hell not a low income renter, *

Saving, investing, planning. I've done the things you should have done.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Renters have a good beef (survival).  Landlords don't (greed).



Steal that beef!!!


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Mr Clean said:


> You’re not being forced out, you’re just being charged more.


FALSE! 2 years ago, 80% of the people in my previous apt complex moved (including me). I had been there 8 years. Some had been there over 20 years. You think they chose to move, and would have moved if the rent had not been increased 64% from 550/mo to 900 ?  Of course they were forced out.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> How do you know that the owner's expenses haven't gone up?
> 
> Maybe the building needs repairs or the tax burden has changed ?
> 
> Maybe you should get together win a few other tenants and buy a multifamily home and then you could control your own expenses.


Not when this is going on ALL OVER the Tampa Bay area, and all over the state.  It is a result of overpopulation and housing saturation, that landlords are raising rents sky-high, for 2 reasons. Greed, and the lack of anything to stop them.

Wolves can't be expected to stop attacking sheep. But the ranchers should be expected to stop the wolves.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> The work of moving and or getting a roommate.
> The work of moving and buying your own place.
> 
> Quit whining that the government needs to steal someone's property to give to you.


I AM buying my own place. Never again will I be subject to the grabs of the greed freaks. But I shouldn't HAVE TO be doing that.  It's happening because wimp and unscrupulous government is placing the whims of a small number of landlords, above the health of massive numbers of renters.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *Quite the contrary, YOU"RE a LANDLORD, aren't you ?*
> 
> Fuck that.
> I'd never want to deal with whiny tenants.
> ...


FALSE!  I AM a low income renter (but not for long) - I never want to deal with greedy landlords again.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I AM buying my own place. Never again will I be subject to the grabs of the greed freaks. But I shouldn't HAVE TO be doing that.  It's happening because wimp and unscrupulous government is placing the whims of a small number of landlords, above the health of massive numbers of renters.



Thank God!!!

Your liberal whining is beyond tiresome.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Never again will I be subject to the grabs of the greed freaks.



It'd be a shame if the government tried to steal your place to give it to someone else.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Your error is imagining a place a tenant rents is their home. Silly.
> It belongs to the landlord. A conservative would understand that.


FALSE!  It is both belonging to the landlord AND belonging to the tenant.

Landlords are not alone in having some responsibility for the well-being of the PEOPLE whose lives they deal with.   Business owners of drug companies have to be sure that their drugs are not harmful. They also sometimes violate that (ex. Viiox).  Car companies need to make sure their cars are safe to be on the road.  Building constructers have to keep their materials strong enough to prevent build collapse. 

All these business owners have to be careful when they have a business that deals with people's lives.  They choose to be in that type of business, then they undergo the work of keeping it consistent with the well-being of the people who use their product or service. They can't just go full-throttle, gung-ho unrestrained, however they feel like it, just because it makes more money for them.

Government officials who support anti-rent control laws should also consider the harm that is falling on non-real estate businesses, who suffer, as well as middle & low income renters.  It's a much bigger issue than just landlords and renters.

The $350/mo more in rent that tenants pay, is $350/mo LOSS IN SALE$ for other businesses (multiplied by thousands). Time for those businesses to get off their asses, and say something.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> It'd be a shame if the government tried to steal your place to give it to someone else.





  ......and stupid as well.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Thank God!!!
> 
> Your liberal whining is beyond tiresome.


Oh well if you can't tolerate people exercising their constitutional rights (and responsibility) then you could find a country where that isnt part of the scenario.
I hear Syria is not too hot this time of they year.  Cuba ?


----------



## Donald H (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> What part of any deal anybody is, is a matter of what the American people, or the people of a state or city want it to be.


No, the American people can't be  a part of all deals. I've tried to make some things clear to you but you're not into learning. You're not even making sense.


----------



## Blues Man (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Not when this is going on ALL OVER the Tampa Bay area, and all over the state.  It is a result of overpopulation and housing saturation, that landlords are raising rents sky-high, for 2 reasons. Greed, and the lack of anything to stop them.
> 
> Wolves can't be expected to stop attacking sheep. But the ranchers should be expected to stop the wolves.


Maybe you should have bought your own house.


----------



## Donald H (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Since the 1930s, the US has been a blend of capitalism & socialism. I was born in 1946, in New York City. I grew up in a rent controlled apartment (whole city had rent control, and it still does today)


Good for you! You're one of the lucky ones because the news and a lot of people are saying that there have been huge rent increases. That's somewhat true in Canada too.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> FALSE!  It is both belonging to the landlord AND belonging to the tenant.
> 
> Landlords are not alone in having some responsibility for the well-being of the PEOPLE whose lives they deal with.   Business owners of drug companies have to be sure that their drugs are not harmful. They also sometimes violate that (ex. Viiox).  Car companies need to make sure their cars are safe to be on the road.  Building constructers have to keep their materials strong enough to prevent build collapse.
> 
> ...



*It is both belonging to the landlord AND belonging to the tenant.*

Damn, that's hilarious!!!

Very liberal of you to feel that way.

*Business owners of drug companies have to be sure that their drugs are not harmful.*

Unsafe rentals need to be fixed. Doesn't mean landlords should be forced to give you 
a below market rate living space.

*All these business owners have to be careful when they have a business that deals with people's lives. *

Safe products are different than charging you less than they want.

*They can't just go full-throttle, gung-ho unrestrained, however they feel like it, just because it makes more money for them.*

Landlords can, even if it makes you whine like a little bitch.

*The $350/mo more in rent that tenants pay, is $350/mo LOSS IN SALE$ for other businesses (multiplied by thousands).* 

Boohoo.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> View attachment 570823  ......and stupid as well.



Stealing part of your living space is off topic? DURR


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Oh well if you can't tolerate people exercising their constitutional rights (and responsibility) then you could find a country where that isnt part of the scenario.
> I hear Syria is not too hot this time of they year.  Cuba ?



You absolutely have the constitutional right to whine like a little bitch.

*I hear Syria is not too hot this time of they year.  Cuba ?*

Cuba has rent control. Let me know how that works out for you.
Probably about as well as it worked at Cabrini Green in Chicago.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *It is both belonging to the landlord AND belonging to the tenant.*
> 
> Damn, that's hilarious!!!
> 
> ...


1. Not liberal, just common sense.  
2.  "Market" rate my ass.  For housing, the market is secondary to survival. 
3. They can, but they shouldnt, and they are creating "communities" filled with non-American migrants, who have no connection to America, and couldn't care less about it.  About the same as if we had lost World War 2.
4.  That's why we need to kick your asses.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> You absolutely have the constitutional right to whine like a little bitch.
> 
> *I hear Syria is not too hot this time of they year.  Cuba ?*
> 
> ...


I buried your dopey :whine" word" some posts ago. You and your tantrums are the one who's whining (about rent control).

Never heard of Cabrini Green- couldnt care less what happened there. Five states and hundreds of cities in America have had rent control. How it works out for landlords there, is they've been in business for 100 years.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Maybe you should have bought your own house.


Never too late. I'm doing that now. (but not everyone can) And it requires moving to another state (big ordeal - the landlords should pay for it) - thy caused it)


----------



## protectionist (Dec 2, 2021)

Donald H said:


> No, the American people can't be  a part of all deals. I've tried to make some things clear to you but you're not into learning. You're not even making sense.


Maybe you're just to dumb to figure it out, out you don't have knowledge of all the criterea involved here.  So the American people should have no say in what happens to their capability to have housing ?  Why would that be ?

Got other threads to attend to.  No time to waste on answering nonsense postings.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> 1. Not liberal, just common sense.
> 2.  "Market" rate my ass.  For housing, the market is secondary to survival.
> 3. They can, but they shouldnt, and they are creating "communities" filled with non-American migrants, who have no connection to America, and couldn't care less about it.  About the same as if we had lost World War 2.
> 4.  That's why we need to kick your asses.



We need to boot 20 million illegal aliens, to start.

And you need to stop pretending you're conservative.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Never heard of Cabrini Green- couldnt care less what happened there.



Public housing with rent control.

It didn't work there either.


----------



## Donald H (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Maybe you're just to dumb to figure it out, out you don't have knowledge of all the criterea involved here.


I doubt it.


protectionist said:


> So the American people should have no say in what happens to their capability to have housing ?


No, of course not. But you have to understand how capitalism works, *because your country subscribes to it!  *


protectionist said:


> Why would that be ?


Why would what be? I think you're going to come to an understanding that rent cotrols aren't consistent with a purely capitalist system. And from there it's an easy next step to understanding how socialism needs to be a  part too. Are rent controls 'socialist' policy or are they dictatorial?


protectionist said:


> Got other threads to attend to.  No time to waste on answering nonsense postings.


Suit yourself. If you can grasp what I'm telling you then it won't be nonsense to you anymore.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> You ass. I've WORKED all my life.  In machine shops, in motels, etc. I've NEVER gamed a system. You have no idea what the hell you're talking about. I served in the US Army + Army National Guard - I was combat engineer. I built M4T6 bridges - hardest work there ever has been in America.
> 
> What have YOU done ? Invested your money, and then sit on your lazy ass, while the profits roll in ?
> 
> Keeping housing rents from going up 50-100%  in a single bound, is not gaming a system. It is keeping thieving, greedy landlords from destroying millions of peoples' lives, you blockhead.


Listen you short sighted parasite, I have worked a similar track to yours.  The difference, I thought about the future and planned for a secure future without going on the dole or expecting someone to provide for me.  If you don't like the cost of rent, then LEAVE.  No one has forced you to stay.  If you had thought ahead and were willing to put up with the head aches and parasites, you could have been a landlord.  Cry me a fucking river, loser.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> It is the landlords who are parasiting upon the renters.


Are the landlords FORCING  you to stay.  Move the fuck out if you don't want to pay market rate.  I am sure the landlord will replace your parasitic ass in one day.


----------



## Donald H (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Cannot move to anywhere relatively close by. Housing market is SATURATED. There is no rental housing available, that is anything close to affordable. In my case, I don't even have a car, and believe me, I'm not the only one.


Gee! You're experiencing capitalism! Have you heard about supply and demand?

Is it fine the way it is or are you somehow hinting at the need for more control over the capitalist system?

If that happens, will it be socialism/communism or will it be dictatorial coming from government?

I wonder how Canada would handle your issue?

Gee! I have an idea!


----------



## dblack (Dec 2, 2021)

Donald H said:


> Gee! You're experiencing capitalism! Have you heard about supply and demand?
> 
> Is it fine the way it is or are you somehow hinting at the need for more control over the capitalist system?
> 
> ...


We need government control. Of everything. For our own good.


----------



## Donald H (Dec 2, 2021)

dblack said:


> We need government control. Of everything. For our own good.


No you don't. Even socialists don't want that. You want some control over capitalism. Just read C.A., the pissant's screeching where he believes the only option is to move somewhere else if rents are too high. How incredibly ignorant! But there's no way of reaching his sorry ass because he flies into a fit of rage when anybody tries to tell him anything.


----------



## Flash (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> It's happening again. 2 years ago I and hundred of others in my apartment complex were forced out of our homes (apartments), when a new landlord bought the complex we were living in, and immediately raised our rents from $550/month to $900/month (for a 1 bedroom).
> 
> Now the complex I'm living in (which I came to, to escape from the previous one), has also been bought, and this new owner, like in the other complex, has also raised the rents very high. From $600/month to $850/mo.
> 
> ...




Who cares?  Stop your whining.

Their ain't no such thing as a free lunch and life ain't fair.

Nobody owes you a damn thing.  Go find another $500 a month apartment if you don't want to pay for the one you are living in.

If you or the other people can't afford a decent place to live then they should have worked harder and prepared for their retirement better.

I am a retiree on a fixed income that is being fucked by Biden's inflation so I have no sympathy for other people's whining.    I also get screwed with higher taxes and higher fees for other things.  That is life.

At least I have enough in 401K where I can make up for the lost in purchasing power but my children and grandchildren that would have inherited it will get screwed all because of bad government.


----------



## bodecea (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> 1. Not liberal, just common sense.
> 2.  "Market" rate my ass.  For housing, the market is secondary to survival.
> 3. They can, but they shouldnt, and they are creating "communities" filled with non-American migrants, who have no connection to America, and couldn't care less about it.  About the same as if we had lost World War 2.
> 4.  That's why we need to kick your asses.


You sound more and more like a commie here....................because it affects you personally.


----------



## Flash (Dec 2, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> We need to boot 20 million illegal aliens, to start.
> 
> And you need to stop pretending you're conservative.


  He is lying if he says he is Conservative.  Rent controls ain't Conservative policies.


----------



## dblack (Dec 2, 2021)

Donald H said:


> No you don't. Even socialists don't want that.


They don't? I was reading a description of Democratic Socialism that claimed that they wanted to see "both society and the economy run democratically". That's pretty much everything, isn't it?


Donald H said:


> You want some control over capitalism.


No, I don't.


----------



## Donald H (Dec 2, 2021)

Flash said:


> Who cares?  Stop your whining.
> 
> Their ain't no such thing as a free lunch and life ain't fair.
> 
> ...


Stop whining about your higher taxes and higher fees. If you had properly prepared for retirement you would be able to easily afford everything, including a BMW and the biggest screen t.v. to.

Oh, and you would still have a few hundred thousand to pass on in your will.


----------



## Donald H (Dec 2, 2021)

Flash said:


> He is lying if he says he is Conservative.  Rent controls ain't Conservative policies.


Oh yes they are. Rent controls are limitations on greedy and out of control American style capitalism. 

You americans are just starting to leand that capitalism can't function without some controls.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 2, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I dont know if you have any idea how drastic the situation is here in the Tampa Bay area


I have a brother and a niece that have located to the Tampa area in the past 3 years.  They purchased their properties and by what I see in photos, they are very nice homes.  My brother is retired and my niece works in the local workforce, so don't whine to me because you spent like a striped assed monkey and didn't save for your retirement.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 2, 2021)

Donald H said:


> Oh yes they are. Rent controls are limitations on greedy and out of control American style capitalism.
> 
> You americans are just starting to leand that capitalism can't function without some controls.


Fuck off duck.  Take your socialist shit down the road.  You aren't an American--stay out our business.


----------



## Flash (Dec 2, 2021)

Donald H said:


> Stop whining about your higher taxes and higher fees. If you had properly prepared for retirement you would be able to easily afford everything, including a BMW and the biggest screen t.v. to.
> 
> Oh, and you would still have a few hundred thousand to pass on in your will.




You need to read my post again because your reading comprehension sucks.  I have prepared nicely but it is screwing my children and grandchildren out of some of their inheritiance.

Everybody gets fucked with bad Liberal government politics.


----------



## Donald H (Dec 2, 2021)

dblack said:


> They don't? I was reading a description of Democratic Socialism, that claimed that they wanted to see "both society and the economy run democratically". That's pretty much everything, isn't it?



If you're reading about the problem, of unlimited capitalism requiring some healthy blend of socialism. That's the only way your country's people will ever be able to have health care for all, on the level with the world's leading countries, for just one example.

And speaking from experience in B.C., government car insurance is a slamdunk! You see, with government the profit can be *built out * as opposed to being built into the cost.
Good socially responsible is a treasure!


dblack said:


> No, I don't.


Sure you do and that's why you're reading and trying to learn.


----------



## Flash (Dec 2, 2021)

Donald H said:


> Oh yes they are. Rent controls are limitations on greedy and out of control American style capitalism.
> 
> You americans are just starting to leand that capitalism can't function without some controls.




You are confused Moon Bat.  Conservatives don't want the friggin government telling them how to run their lives.

Capitalism isn't neither fair or unfair.  It is market realism.  Socialism is unfair because it uses the filthy government to steal from the productive to give to the unproductive.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 2, 2021)

Donald H said:


> If you're reading about the problem, of unlimited capitalism requiring some healthy blend of socialism. That's the only way your country's people will ever be able to have health care for all, on the level with the world's leading countries, for just one example.
> 
> And speaking from experience in B.C., government car insurance is a slamdunk! You see, with government the profit can be *built out * as opposed to being built into the cost.
> Good socially responsible is a treasure!
> ...


Damn, duck, I guess you really are a parasite.


----------



## dblack (Dec 2, 2021)

Donald H said:


> If you're reading about the problem, of unlimited capitalism requiring some healthy blend of socialism. That's the only way your country's people will ever be able to have health care for all, on the level with the world's leading countries, for just one example.


That's a silly claim. And not true at all.


Donald H said:


> Sure you do and that's why you're reading and trying to learn.


Nope. I don't want government controlling society at all. The most novel and important premise of the US experiment is that it should work the other way around.


----------



## Donald H (Dec 2, 2021)

Flash said:


> You are confused Moon Bat.  Conservatives don't want the friggin government telling them how to run their lives.
> 
> Capitalism isn't neither fair or unfair.  It is market realism.  Socialism is unfair because it uses the filthy government to steal from the productive to give to the unproductive.


Good, you understand capitalism!
Now lie back and ve vill begin!

All of us capitalists eventually get to the fine tuning of our preferred form of government. Pure greedy uncontrolled capitalism has never worked. Even America has included some socialist policy.


----------



## Donald H (Dec 2, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Damn, duck, I guess you really are a parasite.


Go quack yourself pissant.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 2, 2021)

Donald H said:


> Go quack yourself pissant.


Only if the Trudeau government pays me like they pay you, duck.


----------



## Blues Man (Dec 3, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Never too late. I'm doing that now. (but not everyone can) And it requires moving to another state (big ordeal - the landlords should pay for it) - thy caused it)


Why does buying a house have to require moving to another state?


----------



## eagle1462010 (Dec 3, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Why does buying a house have to require moving to another state?


More than likely the fixed income he's on wasn't available near there or the VA found a foreclosure for him.  The later probably the case.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 3, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Public housing with rent control.
> 
> It didn't work there either.


I'm not talking bout public housing.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 3, 2021)

Donald H said:


> I doubt it.
> 
> No, of course not. But you have to understand how capitalism works, *because your country subscribes to it!  *
> 
> ...


You came here late, and things you're talking about have already been addressed earlier in the thread (repeatedly).  Briefly, the US is not a purely capitalist country. It (since at least the 1930s) is a combination of capitalism and socialism.  Rent control has been in effect in some cities in America for over 100 years.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 3, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Listen you short sighted parasite, I have worked a similar track to yours.  The difference, I thought about the future and planned for a secure future without going on the dole or expecting someone to provide for me.  If you don't like the cost of rent, then LEAVE.  No one has forced you to stay.  If you had thought ahead and were willing to put up with the head aches and parasites, you could have been a landlord.  Cry me a fucking river, loser.


I AM a landlord right now, but I'm not a greed freak idiot, who charges unreasonable rents that I know people cant pay.  If the greed freaks had an ounce of decency, they would do as I, and other respectable landlords do.

And having some level of  rent control is not parasiting.  Quite the contrary it is the astronomical rents that landlords are charging that is the parasiting (I have never repeated myself so much as in this weird thread)

Your "LEAVE" blabber is another thing that has already been addressed a number of times here- try reading the thread before posting.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 3, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Are the landlords FORCING  you to stay.  Move the fuck out if you don't want to pay market rate.  I am sure the landlord will replace your parasitic ass in one day.


There is no such thing as "market rate". That is a convenient notion created by and used by landlords to justify their rent GOUGING.  What if your gas prices went up $500/month. Wanna call that market rate ?

Also, maybe it didn't occur to you in your nice comfortable life, but (already mentioned 10 times here) lots of people are NOT ABLE to move, and due to the housing saturation crisis going on now, there is nowhere to move to.  Vacancies are long gone.

Again, greedy landlords are the parasites, not the renters.


----------



## Donald H (Dec 3, 2021)

protectionist said:


> You came here late, and things you're talking about have already been addressed earlier in the thread (repeatedly).  Briefly, the US is not a purely capitalist country. It (since at least the 1930s) is a combination of capitalism and socialism.  Rent control has been in effect in some cities in America for over 100 years.


Yes, I understand that rent controls have been around for a long time, but I didn't expect anything like 100 years.
But there is a distinct impression being conveyed by many that they are too few and too little. 
However, I've tried to take the issue a little deeper by suggesting that rent controls aren't purely a capitalist response to the issue and that there are other solutions that are.

The best way I know of to investigate and challenge the problem is to look closely at instances where the problem (s) have been addressed and some success has resulted.

You can be assured that I believe capitalism can still work, but it has to come with qualifications. If you have an interest in discussing some ideas with me, I'm here to take part.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 3, 2021)

Donald H said:


> Gee! You're experiencing capitalism! Have you heard about supply and demand?
> 
> Is it fine the way it is or are you somehow hinting at the need for more control over the capitalist system?
> 
> ...


I'm not "hinting" for control over the capitalist system, I am hollering for more control over a particular destructive aspect of the capitalist system, same as (previously mentioned), drug companies, automobile manufacturers, constriction companies have to conform to, and "Gee", they don't bitch about it, like the pansies in this thread are doing.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 3, 2021)

dblack said:


> We need government control. Of everything. For our own good.


I don't know about "everything", but I just mentioned a number of industries that have government laws controlling them, and the level of housing prices sure needs to be in that category ( t least in Florida).  No reason for the housing industry to be exempt from scrutiny and some degree of control, and BE ACCOUNTABLE for what they do , as other industries are. (while they unscrupulously and rudely claim their "market rate" should be their only point of reference)


----------



## protectionist (Dec 3, 2021)

Donald H said:


> No you don't. Even socialists don't want that. You want some control over capitalism. Just read C.A., the pissant's screeching where he believes the only option is to move somewhere else if rents are too high. How incredibly ignorant! But there's no way of reaching his sorry ass because he flies into a fit of rage when anybody tries to tell him anything.


who is C.A. ?


----------



## dblack (Dec 3, 2021)

protectionist said:


> *I don't know about "everything"*, but I just mentioned a number of industries that have government laws controlling them, and the level of housing prices sure needs to be in that category ( t least in Florida).  No reason for the housing industry to be exempt from scrutiny and some degree of control, and BE ACCOUNTABLE for what they do , as other industries are. (while they unscrupulously and rudely claim their "market rate" should be their only point of reference)



Why not everything? If you think housing should be regulated to serve your interests, why not every other industry?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 3, 2021)

Flash said:


> Who cares?  Stop your whining.
> 
> Their ain't no such thing as a free lunch and life ain't fair.
> 
> ...


Thus isnt a question of anybody "oweing" anybody anything so you can stop trying to pass this off as a welfare thing., Be honest.  is is a matter of an industry conducting itself in a way that is reasonably without HARM to the American people. Like doctors' first obligation. DO NO HARM.

As for "bad government" (just to bring us back to the TOPIC), that would be allowing landlords to let rents go so high, that a major % of the AMERICAN population cnnot pay them, while rich foreigners that Biden is dumping on us can pay them are they are doing just that.

Speaking of rent, today is Social Security direct deposit day, and I now have to go out and pay mine right now.  Bye kids.


----------



## Donald H (Dec 3, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I'm not "hinting" for control over the capitalist system, I am hollering for more control over a particular destructive aspect of the capitalist system,


Alright, I maybe should have been more careful on how I worded my remarks


protectionist said:


> same as (previously mentioned), drug companies, automobile manufacturers, constriction companies have to conform to, and "Gee", they don't bitch about it, like the pansies in this thread are doing.


Sorry, I'm missing your point in that. I think you're saying that the supply side has to conform to the dictates of capitalism as practiced in your country. If so then that's getting right to the meat of the issue. Are there enough reasonable demands on the supply side or should there be more demands and maybe some new ones.

One issue that comes to mind and that is very destructive of the economy is allowing corporations to skip off to a foreign country where there are less demands to fulfill. Keeping in mind that preventing them from doing that would be a huge challenge to the capitalist system.


----------



## Donald H (Dec 3, 2021)

protectionist said:


> who is C.A. ?


Concerned American.  His comments are useful because they represent the extreme and that provides this conversation a basis on what is expected at one extreme end.

I can't represent the other extreme end because I'm still a capitalist and not nearly a socialist. I really don't think we have a socialist on this forum that can fill the bill.


----------



## Donald H (Dec 3, 2021)

protectionist said:


> ..................., while rich foreigners that Biden is dumping on us can pay them are they are doing just that.


Another brilliant example of a problem that maybe should or should not be addressed. Preventing very wealthy foreigners from driving real estate prices and rental prices up would be a direct kick in the teeth to the capitalist system!

But then everybody look closely to see if you are all of a sudden arguing on the wrong side? 

The only question that arises out of that idea of Biden allowing wealthy foreigners, etc., etc. .........

And so what would happen if Biden made a move to curtail that? Does anyone have the courage to face that question?


----------



## Flash (Dec 3, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Thus isnt a question of anybody "oweing" anybody anything so you can stop trying to pass this off as a welfare thing., Be honest.  is is a matter of an industry conducting itself in a way that is reasonably without HARM to the American people. Like doctors' first obligation. DO NO HARM.
> 
> As for "bad government" (just to bring us back to the TOPIC), that would be allowing landlords to let rents go so high, that a major % of the AMERICAN population cnnot pay them, while rich foreigners that Biden is dumping on us can pay them are they are doing just that.
> 
> Speaking of rent, today is Social Security direct deposit day, and I now have to go out and pay mine right now.  Bye kids.




You are afraid of the free market so you you want the friggin government to protect your sorry ass?

Go find another $500 a month apartment and stop your whining.

If you can't find one to your liking then tough shit.

You should have bought a home during the time when the prices were low and interest rates reasonable.

In retirement I live in a four bedroom home on a half acre of land, big garage, and a pool and my payments are just barely over $500/mo.  In fact I have enough money in savings to easily  pay off the mortgage but it is better to carry the mortgage and keep the money invested.

Don't go whining to us about your poor life choices. 

Stop being a sorry shithead that thinks the government should force the people that invested in your apartment building to provide you with indirect welfare.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Dec 3, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I AM a landlord right now, but I'm not a greed freak idiot, who charges unreasonable rents that I know people cant pay. If the greed freaks had an ounce of decency, they would do as I, and other respectable landlords do.


So you have been LYING this whole time.  I was looking for alternatives for you.  That is POS MOVE if you did this.

Are you a LANDLORD?  As you just stated.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Dec 3, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I AM a landlord right now, but I'm not a greed freak idiot, who charges unreasonable rents that I know people cant pay.  If the greed freaks had an ounce of decency, they would do as I, and other respectable landlords do.
> 
> And having some level of  rent control is not parasiting.  Quite the contrary it is the astronomical rents that landlords are charging that is the parasiting (I have never repeated myself so much as in this weird thread)
> 
> Your "LEAVE" blabber is another thing that has already been addressed a number of times here- try reading the thread before posting.


Just reposting this for the record.


----------



## Donald H (Dec 3, 2021)

eagle1462010 said:


> So you have been LYING this whole time.  I was looking for alternatives for you.  That is POS MOVE if you did this.
> 
> Are you a LANDLORD?  As you just stated.


Protectionist is suggesting that rent prices can be controlled by goodwill of landlords. Or, he suggests too that he does so.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Dec 3, 2021)

Donald H said:


> Protectionist is suggesting that rent prices can be controlled by goodwill of landlords. Or, he suggests too that he does so.


I didn't see it as make believe in that comment.


----------



## Flash (Dec 3, 2021)

Donald H said:


> Protectionist is suggesting that rent prices can be controlled by goodwill of landlords. Or, he suggests too that he does so.


Landlords have an investment that they need to get the highest possible rate of return on.  They are not in the business of running a charity.

If he wants free housing then he should go to a homeless shelter.  If he wants a $500/mo apartment it looks like he will have to look elsewhere.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 3, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I AM a landlord right now, but I'm not a greed freak idiot, who charges unreasonable rents that I know people cant pay.


The rent you charge covers the cost of your mortgage.  Correct?  If not you're not considered a reasonable man by IRS standards.   Because of this I assume that your rents cover your costs.  Extrapolating that thought process out, if you were to sell your property, you would demand a fair market value as you should.  What you don't seem to get is that the new owner now has a mortgage that costs him more (because you demanded fair market in the sale).  Are you calling him "greedy" because he cares to recoup his costs?  If you are, as you seem to be, you are an ignorant asshole.  The world and society don't owe you a thing.  If your rent increases--that's life.  The landlord doesn't owe you a living or a place to stay or moving costs.  Stand on your own two feet and quit looking for a free lunch.  My goodness, are you really a commie after spending time in the armed forces?


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 3, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Your "LEAVE" blabber is another thing that has already been addressed a number of times here- try reading the thread before posting.


If you keep repeating the same unsupportable claptrap, don't be surprised if you get the same logical answers.  You also whined, "This isn't a about business and costs"  Au contraire, slow one, that is EXACTLY what it is about.  You are trying to deny a "business owner" a fair return on his investment while distributing the landlord's income to some parasitic deadbeat renter.  If the shoe fits--put it on, moron.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 3, 2021)

protectionist said:


> What if your gas prices went up $500/month.


They did in the last ten months.  I absorbed the cost.  I didn't get fuel controls.  If you are not lying--and I suspect you are, you are a landlord--so quit bitching and go live in your property.  


protectionist said:


> that would be allowing landlords to let rents go so high, that a major % of the AMERICAN population cnnot pay them


Landlords cannot raise prices to the extent that a major % of Americans can't afford them, moron.  That would be counter productive.  A landlord would not raise rents any higher than the market will bear.  Why would he leave his property empty and providing no return.   Maybe you don't meet the IRS definition of a reasonable man.  SMFH.  You are incapable of understanding logic.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 3, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I'm not talking bout public housing.



Public housing and rent control.

Two liberal ideas that make things worse.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 3, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Rent control has been in effect in some cities in America for over 100 years.



Some bad ideas never die.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 4, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Why does buying a house have to require moving to another state?






​



Record highs and lows to close out 2021​
The median home-sale price in Florida, hit a new all-time high as the number of homes for sale hit a new rock bottom—this, combined with potential uncertainty stemming from the omicron coronavirus variant, could fuel a competitive start to 2022.​


----------



## protectionist (Dec 4, 2021)

Flash said:


> You are confused Moon Bat.  Conservatives don't want the friggin government telling them how to run their lives.
> 
> Capitalism isn't neither fair or unfair.  It is market realism.  Socialism is unfair because it uses the filthy government to steal from the productive to give to the unproductive.


You are who is confused. America is not capitalist.  It is a COMBINATION of capitalism & socialism, and there are *many things that conservatives LIKE about the Government* (state & federal) telling us how to live our lives (ex. the *2nd Amendment, Mississippi abortion law, immigration laws when enforced by ICE, criminal laws enforced by police, 10 states which ban Affirmative Action, *etc)  We don't call the government "filthy" on these issues, do we ?

As for stealing, that just what SLEAZY rent-gouging landlords are doing right now.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 4, 2021)

dblack said:


> That's a silly claim. And not true at all.
> 
> Nope. I don't want government controlling society at all. The most novel and important premise of the US experiment is that it should work the other way around.


No government control "AT ALL" ? See post # 223.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

eagle1462010 said:


> More than likely the fixed income he's on wasn't available near there or the VA found a foreclosure for him.  The later probably the case.


VA realty co, says VA does not do home loans on foreclosures.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Public housing and rent control.
> 
> Two liberal ideas that make things worse.


But not if YOU needed them. You're just a selfish creep who doesn't think outside of your own little box.  Someday somebody will sue your greedy ass, and leave you with nothing. Then all your high & mighty ideas will be out the window.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Some bad ideas never die.


Why is it bad ?  Becasue sleazy greed freaks cant gouge renters and force them out of their homes.   What if gas prices went to $100/gallon ? Wanna have gas price control ?
Sure you would, because YOU would be affected, Mr Hypocrite.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

dblack said:


> Why not everything? If you think housing should be regulated to serve your interests, why not every other industry?


Form follows function.  IF an industry needs to be regulated (to protect the public), it should be.  Sometimes government goes too far and regulates too much. Donald Trump eliminated many business regulations.  Most of them deserved to be eliminated, and Trump was right.

DeSantis and Biden are not doing their jobs, because housing in Florida, and the sleazeballs running it,  right now NEEDS regulation, and they're not doing their jobs.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Donald H said:


> Another brilliant example of a problem that maybe should or should not be addressed. Preventing very wealthy foreigners from driving real estate prices and rental prices up would be a direct kick in the teeth to the capitalist system!
> 
> But then everybody look closely to see if you are all of a sudden arguing on the wrong side?
> 
> ...


Donald Trump faced it admirably for 4 years.  When he left, our border was more secure than at any time since the 1950s.  Biden is who created the current immigration train wreck.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Flash said:


> You are afraid of the free market so you you want the friggin government to protect your sorry ass?
> 
> Go find another $500 a month apartment and stop your whining.
> 
> ...


Absolutely we are afraid of a free market. when a market is 1005 free, it can run roughshod over everybody and everything. No better example than the sleazey landlords free to destroy Florida's housing market just for their own personal greed

Yes I should/could have bough a home when prices were normal, but nobody anticipated the election fraud, Biden "winning" & Biden's open border lunacy and the resulting housing madness.

Rent control is not indirect welfare. It is more like laws against robbery, burglary,


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

eagle1462010 said:


> So you have been LYING this whole time.  I was looking for alternatives for you.  That is POS MOVE if you did this.
> 
> Are you a LANDLORD?  As you just stated.


Yes, I have a small bit of land that I rent out for vehicle storage. That is, when I'm able to get renters.

And No, I haven't been lying about anything. How did you come up with that ?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Donald H said:


> Protectionist is suggesting that rent prices can be controlled by goodwill of landlords. Or, he suggests too that he does so.


I do.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

eagle1462010 said:


> I didn't see it as make believe in that comment.


Huh ?????


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Flash said:


> Landlords have an investment that they need to get the highest possible rate of return on.  They are not in the business of running a charity.
> 
> If he wants free housing then he should go to a homeless shelter.  If he wants a $500/mo apartment it looks like he will have to look elsewhere.


Keeping rents affordable enough so that AMERICANS can pay them, and not just a bunch of Biden's rich foreigner migrants, is not "running a charity".  It is doing things in such a way that Americans are protected, same as when construction companies use materials expensive enough that they are safe to keep their buildings from collapsing.

Same as when drug companies spend money on research to ensure that their drugs are not harmful. Same as when car manufacturers up the cost (and thereby lower the sales) of their cars by providing safety features.

These things are done to PROTECT (notice my display name ?) the American people, same as rent control is done to protect Americans from rent gougers.

PS - the point of reference in this thread is *renters being faced with exhorbitant rent increases*, not landlords.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> The rent you charge covers the cost of your mortgage.  Correct?  If not you're not considered a reasonable man by IRS standards.   Because of this I assume that your rents cover your costs.  Extrapolating that thought process out, if you were to sell your property, you would demand a fair market value as you should.  What you don't seem to get is that the new owner now has a mortgage that costs him more (because you demanded fair market in the sale).  Are you calling him "greedy" because he cares to recoup his costs?  If you are, as you seem to be, you are an ignorant asshole.  The world and society don't owe you a thing.  If your rent increases--that's life.  The landlord doesn't owe you a living or a place to stay or moving costs.  Stand on your own two feet and quit looking for a free lunch.  My goodness, are you really a commie after spending time in the armed forces?


NOT correct.  I have no costs on the land that I rent for vehicle storage.

HA HA. _"recoup his cost ?"_  These landlords were making a mint when rents were a fraction of what they are now.  These sleazy thieves are just taking advantage of Biden's airlifts of migrants, and the dumps of them into Florida, jacking up the population, and sudden demand for housing, with no attention to the good of the communities they are in.

You talk like a total jerk.  Rent control laws are designed to PROTECT the public. By your warped "logic", we could well be without laws against murder and rape, and if that happens to you, then _"that's life".  _

The landlord doesn't sell pencils, guitars, or books.  He sells a product that involves PEOPLE in a fundamental survival scenario.  As such, he needs to be responsive to the needs of those people whose lives he holds in his hands.  That is just common sense and decency.  And let's not forget all the OTHER BUSINESSES which are being
smashed with sales drops, from the new sky high housing costs.

If he doesn't want that responsibility, than let him sell pencils, guitars, or books. But as long as he involves himself into the # 1 element of human survival (shelter), according to anthropologists), than he must be held accountable for the quality of that.

Rent control is not a "free lunch".  Stop trying to pass it off as  welfare thing.  People who rent, are paying their way perfectly fine.  Just because they are not willing to pay $1400/month for a 1 bedroom apartment, doesn't mean they are looking for a free lunch.  Stop talking stupid.

And you can quit with the "commie" bullshit too. The US has been long been a combination of capitalism AND socialism, including rent control laws for over 100 years.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> If you keep repeating the same unsupportable claptrap, don't be surprised if you get the same logical answers.  You also whined, "This isn't a about business and costs"  Au contraire, slow one, that is EXACTLY what it is about.  You are trying to deny a "business owner" a fair return on his investment while distributing the landlord's income to some parasitic deadbeat renter.  If the shoe fits--put it on, moron.


OMG!  Are all the intelligent people in this forum reading this, believing their eyes ?

Good grief!  _ "a fair return on his investment"_ YIKES!!  Never have I seen such a totally outrageous UNFAIR return on an investment. Here's a better description of it >> * HIGHWAY ROBBERY!!!!!!

moron........*


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> They did in the last ten months.  I absorbed the cost.  I didn't get fuel controls.
> Landlords cannot raise prices to the extent that a major % of Americans can't afford them, moron. That would be counter productive. A landlord would not raise rents any higher than the market will bear. Why would he leave his property empty and providing no return. Maybe you don't meet the IRS definition of a reasonable man. SMFH. You are incapable of understanding logic.



They didn't go up $500/month.  They went up a lot , but nit that much. Well what if gas prices went to $500/gallon ?  You like being gouged ?
Hey Dum dum. Are you home ? Are you following what's going on here ?

YOU are the moron.  Landlords ARE raising prices to WAAAAAAAY above what a major % of Americans can afford. That is the basis if this whole thread, that we are now 237 posts into (have you been following this?)

You missed the part about the POPULATION EXPLOSION in Florida ? What the market will bear is changing, and causing major socialogical change - ie. major housng saturation/shortage


----------



## Blues Man (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> ​
> 
> 
> ​
> ...


Moving to another state is not required


----------



## surada (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Absolutely we are afraid of a free market. when a market is 1005 free, it can run roughshod over everybody and everything. No better example than the sleazey landlords free to destroy Florida's housing market just for their own personal greed
> 
> Yes I should/could have bough a home when prices were normal, but nobody anticipated the election fraud, Biden "winning" & Biden's open border lunacy and the resulting housing madness.
> 
> Rent control is not indirect welfare. It is more like laws against robbery, burglary,



So move to a HUD property.. That what it's for.


----------



## Flash (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Keeping rents affordable enough so that AMERICANS can pay them, and not just a bunch of Biden's rich foreigner migrants, is not "running a charity".  It is doing things in such a way that Americans are protected, same as when construction companies use materials expensive enough that they are safe to keep their buildings from collapsing.
> 
> Same as when drug companies spend money on research to ensure that their drugs are not harmful. Same as when car manufacturers up the cost (and thereby lower the sales) of their cars by providing safety features.
> 
> ...


I can afford to pay my cost of housing.

If you can't afford yours then tough shit.  Go be poor some place else.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Moving to another state is not required


No ? Then what is YOUR solution to moving out of a massively increased rent, in a massively rent increase state, where the housing market is changed to exhorbitantly high rents, and vacancies at affordable rate are no longer existent ?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

surada said:


> So move to a HUD property.. That what it's for.


Sure, BUT there aren't any vacancies.  If you know of any, post it here.


----------



## surada (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> No ? Then what is YOUR solution to moving out of a massively increased rent, in a massively rent increase state, where the housing market is changed to exhorbitantly high rents, and vacancies at affordable rate are no longer existent ?



You want to take away rights of landlords who have mortages, taxes and maintenance costs. If you can't afford an apartment, go to a HUD property.. Its for people like you.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Flash said:


> I can afford to pay my cost of housing.
> 
> If you can't afford yours then tough shit.  Go be poor some place else.


The perfect example of the case I'm making.  Your words make my case.

PS - you may not always be able to afford to pay the cost of housing (in Florida).


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

surada said:


> You want to take away rights of landlords who have mortages, taxes and maintenance costs. If you can't afford an apartment, go to a HUD property.. Its for people like you.


Post 242 answered that. 

And landlords should not have "rights" to gouge renters at ANY rental rates, any more than car manufacturers have rights to make cars without air bags and seat belts (which they don't). How unfair to those car manufacturers that they have to spend money on features to protect the public, but landlords exercise no concession at all.

And landlords were making big profits before Biden's migrant dumps, and the rents started skyrocketing, so talk about "mortages, taxes and maintenance costs" is a red herring laughingstock (if it werent such a serious issue)


----------



## Blues Man (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> No ? Then what is YOUR solution to moving out of a massively increased rent, in a massively rent increase state, where the housing market is changed to exhorbitantly high rents, and vacancies at affordable rate are no longer existent ?


Buy a multi family live in one unit rent the others.

It's how I bought my first home when I was 22


----------



## surada (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Post 242 answered that.



Contact senior services or governor Desantis or both.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Buy a multi family live in one unit rent the others.
> 
> It's how I bought my first home when I was 22


I'm lucky if I can buy just one old single family home, and I don't want anything in Florida. I want to get out of this state, and moving is expensive.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

surada said:


> Contact senior services or governor Desantis or both.


Been there done that. Services direct you to agencies with 3-4 year waiting lists. 

Desantis (aide) answer was "Talk to your landlord"  Translation: we're not going to do our job and protect you. 

Can't wait to get out of this state.


----------



## task0778 (Dec 5, 2021)

When you apply rent controls, you dampen the incentive for developers to bring new rental properties to market.  Every investment is subject to a risk vs reward evaluation, and rent controls obviously impact the reward side, to the extent that not as many new rental properties are developed.  And landlords find converting existing properties to other uses more attractive and developers find new rentable accommodations less profitable to build, compounding this scarcity problem.  A 1994 rent‐control expansion in San Francisco, for example, led to landlords converting rental properties to condos for higher‐income families, and market rents increased by over 5 percent. Rent control not only increased the cost of non‐controlled accommodation, but it also accelerated gentrification. On the flip side, positive effects have been seen when rent controls were abolished. In Cambridge, Massachusetts, for example, economists found that direct dollar investments in housing units more than doubled over a few years.  Maintenance and improvements tend to decline.

Consider:  


_St. Paul Just Implemented the Nation’s Strictest Rent Control Law. It’s Already Backfiring Tremendously

It's one of the strictest rent control measures in the US—if not the world.

Tuesday, November 16, 2021

The city just approved a rent control measure that will limit landlords’ ability to increase rents on its 65,000+ rental properties. They will not be able to increase prices by more than 3 percent each year under the new law. Controversially, the initiative does not account for inflation and applies to new construction, not just existing properties. This makes the St. Paul rent control measure one of the strictest in the US—if not the world.

In St. Paul, these consequences are already starting to materialize.

“Less than 24 hours after St. Paul voters approved one of the country's most stringent rent control policies, Nicolle Goodman's phone started to ring,” the Star-Tribune reports. “Developers were calling to tell the city's director of planning and economic development they were placing projects on hold, putting hundreds of new housing units at risk.”

“We, like everybody else, are re-evaluating what — if any — future business activity we'll be doing in St. Paul," major developer Jim Stolpestad told the newspaper.

Another major developer, Ryan Cos, has already pulled plans for 3 new buildings, according to the Pioneer Press.

St. Paul Just Implemented the Nation’s Strictest Rent Control Law. It’s Already Backfiring Tremendously | Brad Polumbo_


----------



## Mr Natural (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Been there done that. Services direct you to agencies with 3-4 year waiting lists.
> 
> Desantis (aide) answer was "Talk to you landlord"  Translation: we're not going to do our job and protect you.
> 
> Can't wait to get out of this state.



But isn't Florida like a conservative paradise?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Mr Clean said:


> But isn't Florida like a conservative paradise?


Not any more. The last way to CONSERVE America is to let thousands of foreign migrants come into your state (just so they can vote for Biden), and chew up the housing availability.


----------



## Flash (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> The perfect example of the case I'm making.  Your words make my case.
> 
> PS - you may not always be able to afford to pay the cost of housing (in Florida).


Then go live in Mississippi.  They have the cheapest housing cost in the US.

I saw a video the other day of housing cost in Ukraine.  Yoy can buy a three bedroom home on three acres with other buildings for $3,000.   A 20 year mortgage would cost you how much, $20 a month?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

task0778 said:


> When you apply rent controls, you dampen the incentive for developers to bring new rental properties to market.


No you don't. They were making HUGE profited before the migrant dumps occured with their resulting skyrocketing rents.

As for the dumb articles blabbered that new rent controls are "backfiring", New York City had rent controls since 1920, and millions of people were born and raised there because of that.  Millions of people lived there because of that.  The New York Yankees and New York Giants wouldnt have existed without it. Never would have been a Lou Gehrig or a Babe Ruth.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Flash said:


> Then go live in Mississippi.  They have the cheapest housing cost in the US.
> 
> I saw a video the other day of housing cost in Ukraine.  Yoy can buy a three bedroom home on three acres with other buildings for $3,000.   A 20 year mortgage would cost you how much, $20 a month?


Why should millions of renters have to pack up and move (which they wont, because they cant afford it), when a relatively small group of landlords don't have to make any concessions ?  (as other businesses commonly do)

 No, the burden should be on the landlords to be reasonable in protecting the public, same as other businesses.

Ukraine ?  What will life be like there, after Russia takes it over ?


----------



## task0778 (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> No you don't. They were making HUGE profited before the migrant dumps occured with their resulting skyrocketing rents.
> 
> As for the dumb articles blabbered that new rent controls are "backfiring", New York City had rent controls since 1920, and millions of people were born and raised there because of that.  Millions of people lived there because of that.  The New York Yankees and New York Giants wouldnt have existed without it. Never would have been a Lou Gehrig or a Babe Ruth.



_New York City had rent controls since 1920_

Not true.  In 1920, New York adopted Emergency Rent Laws, which effectively charged the courts of New York State with their administration. When challenged by tenants, rent increases were reviewed by a standard of "reasonableness." The definition of reasonableness was subject to judicial interpretation. Certain apartments were decontrolled beginning in 1926, and the Rent Laws of 1920 expired completely in June 1929, although limited protections against evictions considered unjust were continued.


In the post-war period rent controls were in operation in many American cities. By reducing the return to landlords it made sense for them to let their properties go to rack and ruin. This was a major source of ‘urban blight’. As the economist Assar Lindbeck put it, “In many cases rent control appears to be the most efficient technique presently known to destroy a city—except for bombing.”


So strong is the evidence for this that we have that rarest of things – a consensus among economists. In 2012, economists were polled with the following question;

Local ordinances that limit rent increases for some rental housing units, such as in New York and San Francisco, have had a positive impact over the past three decades on the amount and quality of broadly affordable rental housing in cities that have used them.

81% of them disagreed.

81% of economists agree that rent controls are bad policy


So, you are among the 19%.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

task0778 said:


> _New York City had rent controls since 1920_
> 
> Not true.  In 1920, New York adopted Emergency Rent Laws, which effectively charged the courts of New York State with their administration. When challenged by tenants, rent increases were reviewed by a standard of "reasonableness." The definition of reasonableness was subject to judicial interpretation. Certain apartments were decontrolled beginning in 1926, and the Rent Laws of 1920 expired completely in June 1929, although limited protections against evictions considered unjust were continued.
> 
> ...


I know what they had, and what they had in 1920, is some form of rent control.  I know a lot more about it than what you posted here.

1.  As for your alleged 81% of economists, how many if them grew up in a rent-controlled apartment, which if there had been no rent control there they might nit have ever been born ?

2. As I have stated before, this thread is about the effects the Florida housing crisi, on Florida renters, not landlords or economists or THEIR perceived economics.


----------



## task0778 (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I know what they had, and what they had in 1920, is some form of rent control. I know a lot more about it than what you posted here.
> 
> 1. As for your alleged 81% of economists, how many if them grew up in a rent-controlled apartment, which if there had been no rent control there they might nit have ever been born ?
> 
> 2. As I have stated before, this thread is about the effects the Florida housing crisi, on Florida renters, not landlords or economists or THEIR perceived economics.



No doubt you know more about rent control than I do, but that does not make you correct.

_1. As for your alleged 81% of economists, how many if them grew up in a rent-controlled apartment, which if there had been no rent control there they might nit have ever been born ?_

Totally irrelevant.  


_2. As I have stated before, this thread is about the effects the Florida housing crisi, on Florida renters, not landlords or economists or THEIR perceived economics._

I do not believe that human nature and the laws of economics change with respect to location, and you were talking about rent control, which actually is nothing more than putting a band-aid on a problem instead of fixing it.  How do you not see that rent controls affects landlords and the construction of new rental properties?  Is that not the real answer to the problem of high rents?  I.E., more supply of rental properties?

Curious to know of any economists who support the idea of rent controls, I'd like to see their logic and evidence on that.


----------



## Flash (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Why should millions of renters have to pack up and move (which they wont, because they cant afford it), when a relatively small group of landlords don't have to make any concessions ?  (as other businesses commonly do)
> 
> No, the burden should be on the landlords to be reasonable in protecting the public, same as other businesses.
> 
> Ukraine ?  What will life be like there, after Russia takes it over ?




No, you are confused.  The burden is on you to live in housing that you can afford.

If you are so poor as to not be able to afford housing in the US then you may have to be homeless or move to a cheaper country.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I'm lucky if I can buy just one old single family home, and I don't want anything in Florida. I want to get out of this state, and moving is expensive.


Put your stuff in your car and go.  The only cost is gas.  You are a renter so you can’t have a lot of stuff anyway.  You just want everyone else to fix your problem


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> These landlords were making a mint when rents were a fraction of what they are now.


You are basing your entire argument on assumption.  You don't have the slightest idea what risks the landlord took in order to obtain a property.  You also have been completely disingenuous when you called yourself a landlord when you are renting a parking lot.


protectionist said:


> These sleazy thieves are just taking advantage


More fucking misguided assumptions.  Seventy-five and you've been hiding in a hole for the last fifteen years.  This housing market problem started back then when democrat policies created a bubble that trashed the industry.  Building came to a screeching halt resulting in higher housing costs due to lack of inventory.  Hell, you should be happy you're in a state with reasonable housing costs.  In my area I have seen middle class housing prices go from the mid 300Ks to the mid 600Ks in two years and Biden's inflationary measures have done nothing but drive them up more.  People are offering more for a house than the owners are asking and the houses are selling in a week.  Property owners are not boogie men that prey on you--they have to live as well.  Quit whining, grab your bootstraps and quit expecting everyone else to pick up you slack.  SMH.  Commie.


----------



## Flash (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I know what they had, and what they had in 1920, is some form of rent control.  I know a lot more about it than what you posted here.
> 
> 1.  As for your alleged 81% of economists, how many if them grew up in a rent-controlled apartment, which if there had been no rent control there they might nit have ever been born ?
> 
> 2. As I have stated before, this thread is about the effects the Florida housing crisi, on Florida renters, not landlords or economists or THEIR perceived economics.


You have made some bad life choices if you can't afford housing in Florida.

Go be poor some place else.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Rent control laws are designed to PROTECT the public. By your warped "logic", we could well be without laws against murder and rape


This statement is so stupid as to not require an answer.


protectionist said:


> As such, he needs to be responsive to the needs of those people whose lives he holds in his hands.


The landlord is not your mommy.  He doesn't hold anyone's life in his hands but his own.  He risked when he purchased the property and he has every right to be compensated for his property.  He charges what the market will bear--if he over charges, the property would lie vacant and he would get nothing.  There goes your contention that he is overcharging.  Maybe you should get off of your lazy ass and quit expecting everyone else to support your commie ass.


protectionist said:


> As such, he needs to be responsive to the needs of those people whose lives he holds in his hands.


Does a rancher owe you one of his cattle because you don't have meat and it is $15 a pound?  Your argument is ludicrous.


protectionist said:


> Rent control is not a "free lunch".


WRONG.  That is exactly what it is.  Where does that landlord get the money to pay the mortgage if the renter doesn't pay what the property costs.  You are a moron troll.  Go on welfare and live in section 8 housing.  Commie


protectionist said:


> The US has been long been a combination of capitalism AND socialism, including rent control laws for over 100 years.


Wrong is wrong--if they've been doing it for a hundred years or not.  You are looking for a free ride to cover for your own laziness.  You don't want to move and you figure your landlord owes you something.  He doesn't.  Go down to McDonalds and tell them you want a Big Mac for a nickel and see how quickly you get laughed out of the place.  You are a moron commie.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> OMG!  Are all the intelligent people in this forum reading this, believing their eyes ?
> 
> Good grief!  _ "a fair return on his investment"_ YIKES!!  Never have I seen such a totally outrageous UNFAIR return on an investment. Here's a better description of it >> * HIGHWAY ROBBERY!!!!!!
> 
> moron........*


Here's your solution, moron.  Go out, get a loan, build an apartment house on your parking lot and then rent the apartments for half of what the mortgage costs.  You can afford it--you're a landlord.  As for your contention that this is not about economists, landlords or business--you are living in fantasyland.  They are all inter-related in a capitalist society.  You want communism--move to Venezuela or Cuba.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> They didn't go up $500/month.  They went up a lot , but nit that much. Well what if gas prices went to $500/gallon ?  You like being gouged ?
> Hey Dum dum. Are you home ? Are you following what's going on here ?
> 
> YOU are the moron.  Landlords ARE raising prices to WAAAAAAAY above what a major % of Americans can afford. That is the basis if this whole thread, that we are now 237 posts into (have you been following this?)
> ...


You are a moron.  Life changes everyday.  Learn to adapt and overcome.  That doesn't include expecting somebody else to feed you your pablum for free.


----------



## Flash (Dec 5, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> You are a moron.  Life changes everyday.  Learn to adapt and overcome.  That doesn't include expecting somebody else to feed you your pablum for free.


I had a buddy who was an Engineer that back in the 1980s bought several lower priced houses as an investment to rent out.

He got them for a decent price but he had to do a lot of work to fix them up.  Cost him a lot of additional money above the cost of the property.  Then he had taxes and insurance.

Over the years he had many renters.  Some of them were OK but a good percentage of them did significant damage to property that he had to fix.

He had a lot of problems with renters not paying their rent.  They would just leave in the muddle of the night and take appliances or plumbing or light fixtures with them.

He spent far too many of his weekends working on the properties.

When he retired he sold the houses.

He told me that if he had to do all over again he wouldn't have done it.  Far too much work and headaches.

He said he would have done better if had just put his money in a low risk mutual fund.

That was without rent controls.  If there been any kind of interference in the amount of rent he collected that would have made the investment even worse.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> But not if YOU needed them. You're just a selfish creep who doesn't think outside of your own little box.  Someday somebody will sue your greedy ass, and leave you with nothing. Then all your high & mighty ideas will be out the window.



*But not if YOU needed them.*

They're bad ideas, even if I did need them.

*You're just a selfish creep who doesn't think outside of your own little box. *

And you're a wanna be thief.

*Someday somebody will sue your greedy ass, and leave you with nothing. *

Is that what happened to you. Awww......


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Why is it bad ?  Becasue sleazy greed freaks cant gouge renters and force them out of their homes.   What if gas prices went to $100/gallon ? Wanna have gas price control ?
> Sure you would, because YOU would be affected, Mr Hypocrite.



*Why is it bad ?*

Rent control is a bad idea because it reduces new supply and increases demand.

*What if gas prices went to $100/gallon ? *

That would be really bad.

*Wanna have gas price control ?*

No. Now, if it did go that high, how would "gas price control" work?
Spell it out.


----------



## dblack (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Form follows function.  IF an industry needs to be regulated (to protect the public), it should be.


LOL - yeah, I think it says that in the Constitution somewhere.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

dblack said:


> LOL - yeah, I think it says that in the Constitution somewhere.


I give a rat's ass if it does or not.  I donate to the ASPCA every month.  Doesn't say it in the Constitution.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> You are a moron.  Life changes everyday.  Learn to adapt and overcome.  That doesn't include expecting somebody else to feed you your pablum for free.


Oh shut the hell up you fuckin asshole.   Let the fucking sleazebag landlords do the adapting, DUH!!!!!!


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Flash said:


> You have made some bad life choices if you can't afford housing in Florida.
> 
> Go be poor some place else.


You say that as if housing in Florida was cheap.   You need to know the basic facts of a thread before you comment in it.  Dumbass.

And if you're young, someday (if your lucky) you'll be old, and you may find getting to be poor comes with age, when you're not in the workforce anymore.  Happens that way for a lot of people.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> You are basing your entire argument on assumption.  You don't have the slightest idea what risks the landlord took in order to obtain a property.  You also have been completely disingenuous when you called yourself a landlord when you are renting a parking lot.
> 
> More fucking misguided assumptions.  Seventy-five and you've been hiding in a hole for the last fifteen years.  This housing market problem started back then when democrat policies created a bubble that trashed the industry.  Building came to a screeching halt resulting in higher housing costs due to lack of inventory.  Hell, you should be happy you're in a state with reasonable housing costs.  In my area I have seen middle class housing prices go from the mid 300Ks to the mid 600Ks in two years and Biden's inflationary measures have done nothing but drive them up more.  People are offering more for a house than the owners are asking and the houses are selling in a week.  Property owners are not boogie men that prey on you--they have to live as well.  Quit whining, grab your bootstraps and quit expecting everyone else to pick up you slack.  SMH.  Commie.


I'm in a state with reasonable housing costs ? Is there a doctor in the house ?

No knothead. You're still oblivious to what this thread is about.  Then, instead of going with what it IS about (Biden - migrants - overpopulation - housing shortage - rent gouging - you come in here like a fool, and start making up your own scenarios and trying to inject them into the discussion.

It's only with the massive influx of people into the Tampa Bay area et al places in Florida, over the past 3 years, gone to extremes with Biden, that the prices have jumped so high and so suddenly.  2 yrs ago we were paying 550/mo for a 1 bedroom apt ia nice comples with amenities.  New owner (dirtbag) came along and we had to pay 900. We move - 2 yrs later it happens again - 600 to 850. Not a single thought given to the people who's pockets are being picked.  The "bubble" is in your wooden head, THIEF.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

task0778 said:


> No doubt you know more about rent control than I do, but that does not make you correct.
> 
> _1. As for your alleged 81% of economists, how many if them grew up in a rent-controlled apartment, which if there had been no rent control there they might nit have ever been born ?_
> 
> ...


No it is not irrelevant. in fact it is THE relevant part of the thread. Your goofball economists have NOTHING to do with the thread. As I said before, it's about the RENTERS. RENTERS. Get It ? 

 Get on TOPIC or get out of the thread.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Flash said:


> No, you are confused.  The burden is on you to live in housing that you can afford.
> 
> If you are so poor as to not be able to afford housing in the US then you may have to be homeless or move to a cheaper country.


So you think that millions of people who, for years, have had a standard of housing prices, supporting their # 1 element of human survival, should now suddenly have all that overturned and disrupted, and be required to bear all the burden of that disruption.

And at the same time you think the dirty, unscrupulous creeps who are overturning it and disrupting it, should be totally free of any and all duty and accountability to keep things in order.

You are more than confused. You are sick.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> Put your stuff in your car and go.  The only cost is gas.  You are a renter so you can’t have a lot of stuff anyway.  You just want everyone else to fix your problem


Cost of moving furniture > $800.  Plane fare > $120.   Up front housing cost (even with a VA home loan no down payment > $ 1500.

You just want the guys causing the problem to be without any accountability of fixing it.  Maybe YOU're one of those guys, Hmmm ?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> This statement is so stupid as to not require an answer.
> 
> The landlord is not your mommy.  He doesn't hold anyone's life in his hands but his own.  He risked when he purchased the property and he has every right to be compensated for his property.  He charges what the market will bear--if he over charges, the property would lie vacant and he would get nothing.  There goes your contention that he is overcharging.  Maybe you should get off of your lazy ass and quit expecting everyone else to support your commie ass.
> 
> ...


FALSE!  The landlord is dealing with a product that holds people's LIVES in his hands.  That is different than selling plants or sporting goods.  Get it ?  

 Oh you so stupid that you don't know this is rent GOUGING. _Where does that landlord get the money to pay the mortgage if the renter doesn't pay what the property costs ?  What a stupid question._ The landlord gets the money to pay whatever he wished to pay from the rents that he received before he gouged the renters, just as he was doing all along.

To try to claim that these thieves actually NEED this xtra money is about the mist assinine thing anybody has said in this thread. But you're not the only one saying it. There's a bunch of other nitwits here also, who think they can pass that off.  Fools.

And your commie comment is just as stupid.  All businesses have constraints.  None are completely without that (except your sleazey landlord friends). And now those other businesses are being hurt by your landlord pals, as much as the renters are.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> You just want the guys causing the problem to be without any accountability of fixing it.



LOL!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> FALSE!  The landlord is dealing with a product that holds people's LIVES in his hands.  That is different than selling plants or sporting goods.  Get it ?
> 
> Oh you so stupid that you don't know this is rent GOUGING. _Where does that landlord get the money to pay the mortgage if the renter doesn't pay what the property costs ?  What a stupid question._ The landlord gets the money to pay whatever he wished to pay from the rents that he received before he gouged the renters, just as he was doing all along.
> 
> ...



*FALSE! The landlord is dealing with a product that holds people's LIVES in his hands. *

Oh no, people's lives!!! DURR

*Oh you so stupid that you don't know this is rent GOUGING.*

Sounds like you should be allowed to steal.

*To try to claim that these thieves actually NEED this xtra money is about the mist assinine thing anybody has said in this thread. *

Kill the greedy kulaks, eh comrade?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Here's your solution, moron.  Go out, get a loan, build an apartment house on your parking lot and then rent the apartments for half of what the mortgage costs.  You can afford it--you're a landlord.  As for your contention that this is not about economists, landlords or business--you are living in fantasyland.  They are all inter-related in a capitalist society.  You want communism--move to Venezuela or Cuba.


Rent control is part of capitalism in America.  Just like car companies who pay to provide air bags & seat belts (required by LAW I believe ?)  Just like building construction companies whose materials must conform to GOVERNMENT specified CODES, I believe.  Just like food products that are regulated by the FDA and Dept of Agriculture.  Just like pharmaceuticals that are regulated, and the companies must abide.

Think all that is communism ?  No you don;t. You just have burr up your ass about landlords, because you have some $$$ invested in that, you vested interested, bullshit artist.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> LOL!


SICK freak, idiot.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Rent control is part of capitalism in America. Just like car companies who pay to provide air bags & seat belts (required by LAW I believe ?)



Apartments with no rent control are like unsafe cars?

Your comments are getting dumber and dumber.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> FALSE!  The landlord is dealing with a product that holds people's LIVES in his hands.  That is different than selling plants or sporting goods.  Get it ?
> 
> Oh you so stupid that you don't know this is rent GOUGING. _Where does that landlord get the money to pay the mortgage if the renter doesn't pay what the property costs ?  What a stupid question._ The landlord gets the money to pay whatever he wished to pay from the rents that he received before he gouged the renters, just as he was doing all along.
> 
> ...


No more time to spend on you.  You're a parasite that figures you are somehow owed something by people who have no responsibility for your useless ass.  Good night.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> SICK freak, idiot.



Commie whiner, moron.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Think all that is communism ?



I think your theft is communism.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *FALSE! The landlord is dealing with a product that holds people's LIVES in his hands. *
> 
> Oh no, people's lives!!! DURR
> 
> ...


Oh YES people's LIVES, you klutz.

Sound like you think landlords should be allowed to steal.

Just let the greedy kulaks do as other businesses do. Conform to necessary business practices, and stop trying to be privileged characters above everyone else.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Commie whiner, moron.


HA HA, Your "commie" routine isn't cutting it. Was obliterated in Post # 280. 

I would say "nice try", but it wasn't intelligent enough for that.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> I think your theft is communism.


Stop thinking.  You might hurt yourself.

So should car companies not have to provide air bags & seat belts ?

Food companies sell food any way they choose to ?

Building construction companies use any cheap crap materials they see fit to use ?

Americans are "commies" to tell them they can't ?

Dummy.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Oh YES people's LIVES, you klutz.
> 
> Sound like you think landlords should be allowed to steal.
> 
> Just let the greedy kulaks do as other businesses do. Conform to necessary business practices, and stop trying to be privileged characters above everyone else.



*Sound like you think landlords should be allowed to steal.*

It's a free market. Buyers and sellers have to agree on price.

If the price is more than you want to pay, don't buy it.

If that means moving or getting a roommate, stop whining and do it.

*Conform to necessary business practices, and stop trying to be privileged characters above everyone else.*

Price controls are a really bad idea, for rent or anything else.

You never explained how price controls on gasoline would work.

Did you realize the stupidity of that idea yet?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> HA HA, Your "commie" routine isn't cutting it. Was obliterated in Post # 280.
> 
> I would say "nice try", but it wasn't intelligent enough for that.



Your idiocy in post #280 didn't obliterate anything.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Stop thinking.  You might hurt yourself.



If you say so, tovarisch.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Your idiocy in post #280 didn't obliterate anything.


280 obliterated your commie horseshit, and so did Post 288.

I don't see you offering any answers. Cat got your tongue ?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> If you say so, tovarisch.


Yeah, I say so, Bernie Madoff.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Rent control is part of capitalism in America.  Just like car companies who pay to provide air bags & seat belts (required by LAW I believe ?)  Just like building construction companies whose materials must conform to GOVERNMENT specified CODES, I believe.  Just like food products that are regulated by the FDA and Dept of Agriculture.  Just like pharmaceuticals that are regulated, and the companies must abide.
> 
> Think all that is communism ?  No you don;t. You just have burr up your ass about landlords, because you have some $$$ invested in that, you vested interested, bullshit artist.


Listen moron, you can't be this slow.  Who do you think pays for those air bags and seat belts and building codes?  The end consumer pays for it--those prices increase continually.  Check out new car prices--do you think they have price controls on cars?  Nope, they don't.  Rent is the same.  You, as a renter, are the end consumer.  You pay what the market will bear for the period of the lease.  After the terms of the lease have been met, you have no claim to anything.  ZERO, ZIP, NADA.  The landlord doesn't have to renew at all if he so desires.  You have no claim to the property and the fact that you believe you do makes you a fucking commie.


----------



## Markle (Dec 5, 2021)

I'm sorry to see this foolish thread is still clinging to life.

The lead troll must have nothing else to bore us with today.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *Sound like you think landlords should be allowed to steal.*
> 
> It's a free market. Buyers and sellers have to agree on price.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it's a totally FREE market, when all other businesses are NOT "free" to do whatever they want.  Get it, dumbo ?

If gasoline prices suddenly were $500/gallon, would you think price controls bringing them back to $3/gallon would be > "stupidity of that idea" ?  Or are you going to run away from that question too, captain courageous ?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Markle said:


> I'm sorry to see this foolish thread is still clinging to life.
> 
> The lead troll must have nothing else to bore us with today.


You are the troll.   If you have something of SUBSTANCE to contribute, do it. Otherwise, get lost.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 5, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *Why is it bad ?*
> 
> Rent control is a bad idea because it reduces new supply and increases demand.
> 
> ...


No we wouldn't want gas price controls.  Sensible people would go out and buy electric vehicles while people like you would cry for price controls so you wouldn't have to live with the consequences of your actions.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Listen moron, you can't be this slow.  Who do you think pays for those air bags and seat belts and building codes?  The end consumer pays for it--those prices increase continually.  Check out new car prices--do you think they have price controls on cars?  Nope, they don't.  Rent is the same.  You, as a renter, are the end consumer.  You pay what the market will bear for the period of the lease.  After the terms of the lease have been met, you have no claim to anything.  ZERO, ZIP, NADA.  The landlord doesn't have to renew at all if he so desires.  You have no claim to the property and the fact that you believe you do makes you a fucking commie.


HA HA HA. You dumbass, that is my point exactly.  The car company raises prices along with his added costs for the air bags, and what do you think happens when his prices go up ?

I'll tell you. His SALES GO DOWN.  so he suffers that loss, but not the landlord.  The landlord doesn't have to worry about that, because he's getting rich migrants and migrants who cram 4 or 5 or 10 or 12 people into a house or apartment, and he gets his jacked up rent money.  Trouble is, the people who have been paying the lower prices all along (for years) get screwed.

Well, for those who live under a rock, that may not seem troublesome, but to normal people, it's a catastrophe.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> You say that as if housing in Florida was cheap.   You need to know the basic facts of a thread before you comment in it.  Dumbass.
> 
> And if you're young, someday (if your lucky) you'll be old, and you may find getting to be poor comes with age, when you're not in the workforce anymore.  Happens that way for a lot of people.


That's a really funny statement.  Getting poor doesn't come with age unless you are an idiot that depends on the government.  I'm almost seventy and I'm more comfortable now than when I was working.  I made plans and I sacrificed then for comfort now.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> No we wouldn't want gas price controls.  Sensible people would go out and but electric vehicles while people like you would cry for price controls so you wouldn't have to live with the consequences of your actions.


Oh so you'd rather have $500/gallon, than a price control keeping it at $3/gallon. You're full of shit.  As for electric vehicles, what if the price of a charge went to $7,500 each. 
Still dont want the price control ?  LOL/


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> 280 obliterated your commie horseshit, and so did Post 288.
> 
> I don't see you offering any answers. Cat got your tongue ?



Your silly conflation of product safety with rent control just confirmed you're an idiot.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Yeah, I say so, Bernie Madoff.
> 
> View attachment 572302



Bernie was your landlord? DURR


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Cost of moving furniture > $800.  Plane fare > $120.   Up front housing cost (even with a VA home loan no down payment > $ 1500.
> 
> You just want the guys causing the problem to be without any accountability of fixing it.  Maybe YOU're one of those guys, Hmmm ?


So abandon your furniture, gas up your car and drive to bum fuck Arkansas or wherever you can actually afford to live.  People did it in the Great Depression by the hundreds of thousands.  Rent a furnished apartment there, or buy new furniture from a thrift store.  No one owes you anything.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Yeah, it's a totally FREE market, when all other businesses are NOT "free" to do whatever they want.  Get it, dumbo ?
> 
> If gasoline prices suddenly were $500/gallon, would you think price controls bringing them back to $3/gallon would be > "stupidity of that idea" ?  Or are you going to run away from that question too, captain courageous ?



*Yeah, it's a totally FREE market, when all other businesses are NOT "free" to do whatever they want.*

Do? It's about prices, idiot.
*
If gasoline prices suddenly were $500/gallon, would you think price controls bringing them back to $3/gallon would be > "stupidity of that idea" ? *

How would price controls bring $500 gasoline down to $3?

Be specific.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 5, 2021)

protectionist said:


> HA HA HA. You dumbass, that is my point exactly.  The car company raises prices along with his added costs for the air bags, and what do you think happens when his prices go up ?
> 
> I'll tell you. His SALES GO DOWN.  so he suffers that loss, but not the landlord.  The landlord doesn't have to worry about that, because he's getting rich migrants and migrants who cram 4 or 5 or 10 or 12 people into a house or apartment, and he gets his jacked up rent money.  Trouble is, the people who have been paying the lower prices all along (for years) get screwed.
> 
> Well, for those who live under a rock, that may not seem troublesome, but to normal people, it's a catastrophe.


Normal fucking communists.  Do you think you're paying the same rent as your parents paid?  Nope.  I rest my case.  You are a bald faced communist.  If you can't or won't pay the increased rent, get out or find a room mate, the same as those illegals you claimed were doing.  You have lost this debate so many times it is a dead horse.  You should quit beating it.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 5, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> That's a really funny statement.  Getting poor doesn't come with age unless you are an idiot that depends on the government.  I'm almost seventy and I'm more comfortable now than when I was working.  I made plans and I sacrificed then for comfort now.


But many people never had enough money to make what you call "plans".  When I was working, I had 401K accounts. I had to keep eliminating them, because the jobs didn't pay enough money for my support + the 401K.  Lots of people had that problem.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 6, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Stop thinking.  You might hurt yourself.
> 
> So should car companies not have to provide air bags & seat belts ?
> 
> ...


Guess what you pay for those seat belts and airbags and the other government mandated.  I bought my first car in 1970 for just over three thousand dollars, a comparable car now costs fifteen thousand dollars.
Houses cost more because of government mandates.  Sure safety standards are necessary, but you pay for them, not the builder.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 6, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> No we wouldn't want gas price controls.  Sensible people would go out and but electric vehicles while people like you would cry for price controls so you wouldn't have to live with the consequences of your actions.



It's the OP who doesn't understand the idiocy of price controls.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 6, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Listen moron, you can't be this slow.  Who do you think pays for those air bags and seat belts and building codes?  The end consumer pays for it--those prices increase continually.  Check out new car prices--do you think they have price controls on cars?  Nope, they don't.  Rent is the same.  You, as a renter, are the end consumer.  You pay what the market will bear for the period of the lease.  After the terms of the lease have been met, you have no claim to anything.  ZERO, ZIP, NADA.  The landlord doesn't have to renew at all if he so desires.  You have no claim to the property and the fact that you believe you do makes you a fucking commie.


No, it makes him a friggin idiot.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 6, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Oh so you'd rather have $500/gallon, than a price control keeping it at $3/gallon. You're full of shit.  As for electric vehicles, what if the price of a charge went to $7,500 each.
> Still dont want the price control ?  LOL/


In a free market society, the price is set by what the market will bear.  Supply and demand.  This is not rocket science.  Give my regards to Vladimir, comrade.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 6, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Oh so you'd rather have $500/gallon, than a price control keeping it at $3/gallon. You're full of shit.  As for electric vehicles, what if the price of a charge went to $7,500 each.
> Still dont want the price control ?  LOL/





protectionist said:


> Oh so you'd rather have $500/gallon, than a price control keeping it at $3/gallon. You're full of shit.  As for electric vehicles, what if the price of a charge went to $7,500 each.
> Still dont want the price control ?  LOL/


Then I'd buy a bicycle.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 6, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Normal fucking communists.  Do you think you're paying the same rent as your parents paid?  Nope.  I rest my case.  You are a bald faced communist.  If you can't or won't pay the increased rent, get out or find a room mate, the same as those illegals you claimed were doing.  You have lost this debate so many times it is a dead horse.  You should quit beating it.


You're an idiot.  Rent control is no different than all the other concessions that other businesses (like I cited) pay. You just have some kind of vested interest to real estate, so that's why you have a hard on for that industry, and you keep on clownishly pulling this "communist" card on me, like some looney liberal pulling the race card.

You don't know how dumb you look, and you ought to be ashamed of yourself. If you're going to say that Americans calling for rent control is communism, then you'll have to be prepared to say that all the other business concessions I cited (Building construction, car manufacturing, food companies, pharmaceuticals, etc) should also not have to make their concessions, right, CA ?  Right ? Right ?

As for this debate, YOU have lost it, by a country MILE, and you know it, but you're too inve$ted in your real estate stocks to admit it. And you haven't answered a single one of my questions, you faggot.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 6, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> Then I'd buy a bicycle.


Which then puts you in about a similar boat as the renters now are in.
Starting to get it now ?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 6, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> In a free market society, the price is set by what the market will bear.  Supply and demand.  This is not rocket science.  Give my regards to Vladimir, comrade.


Free market society ONLY for landlords. Other businesses do NOT have "free market"  They make concessions, you selfish creep.

*The price should be set by what the AMERICAN PEOPLE can bear, not what you call "the market"*

Got Viiox in your medicine cabinet ?

Give my regards to Bernie Madoff, you SCAMMER.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 6, 2021)

protectionist said:


> But many people never had enough money to make what you call "plans".  When I was working, I had 401K accounts. I had to keep eliminating them, because the jobs didn't pay enough money for my support + the 401K.Lots of people had that problem.


Then you had crap jobs or were living too high on the hog.  I'm comfortable now because I sacrificed when I was younger.  I drove old cars until the wheels fell off, I didn't go out much, when I went to a movie, it was a bargain matenee or at a dollar theater.  When I bought my first house it one that I could easily afford even though I had to make a three hour round trip commute or more.  I lost that house to the Clinton Housing bubble.  I sacrificed some more and bought a condo, again that I could afford ( barely).  I sold that and moved to Arizona where housing is cheaper and used the proceeds to buy a decent retirement home and fix it up.  We had a saying when I was in the Army in the early seventies "failing to prepare is preparing to fail."  You obviously spent your life preparing to fail.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 6, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Oh so you'd rather have $500/gallon, than a price control keeping it at $3/gallon. You're full of shit.  As for electric vehicles, what if the price of a charge went to $7,500 each.
> Still dont want the price control ?  LOL/


In a free market society, the price is set by what the market will bear.  Supply and demand.  This is not rocket science.  Give my regards to Vladimir, comrade.


protectionist said:


> You're an idiot.  Rent control is no different than all the other concessions that other businesses (like I cited) pay. You just have some kind of vested interest to real estate, so that's why you have a hard on for that industry, and you keep on clownishly pulling this "communist" card on me, like some looney liberal pulling the race card.
> 
> You don't know how dumb you look, and you ought to be ashamed of yourself. If you're going to say that Americans calling for rent control is communism, then you'll have to be prepared to say that all the other business concessions I cited (Building construction, car manufacturing, food companies, pharmaceuticals, etc) should also not have to make their concessions, right, CA ?  Right ? Right ?
> 
> As for this debate, YOU have lost it, by a country MILE, and you know it, but you're too inve$ted in your real estate stocks to admit it. And you haven't answered a single one of my questions, you faggot.


Triggered much, moron?  You have admitted to making the wrong decisions throughout your life similar to the ant and the grasshopper.  Instead of improving your skills with an eye on the future because you knew prices would increase--you chose to live for the day and now you think your landlord should support you.  You're a parasite.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 6, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Which then puts you in about a similar boat as the renters now are in.
> Starting to get it now ?


No, not at all.  I'd be taking responsibility for myself, something you are refusing to do,


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 6, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Which then puts you in about a similar boat as the renters now are in.
> Starting to get it now ?


Nope, he adapted to the situation with an eye to making his life better.  I didn't hear him saying that he wanted someone to subsidize him.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 6, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Which then puts you in about a similar boat as the renters now are in.
> Starting to get it now ?


Nope, he adapted to the situation with an eye to making his life better.  I didn't hear him saying that he wanted someone to subsidize him.


protectionist said:


> The price should be set by what the AMERICAN PEOPLE can bear,


IT IS MORON.  IF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WERE NOT WILLING OR ABLE TO PAY (BEAR) THE COST, THE PRODUCT, RENT OR SERVICE WOULD GO UNUSED.  You are obtuse, you can't be this stupid.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 6, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Normal fucking communists.  Do you think you're paying the same rent as your parents paid?  Nope.  I rest my case.  You are a bald faced communist.  If you can't or won't pay the increased rent, get out or find a room mate, the same as those illegals you claimed were doing.  You have lost this debate so many times it is a dead horse.  You should quit beating it.








You're as bad as the liberals with their race card. Just as COWARDLY as they are. When I called you out in Post # 313, and asked you to justify your assinine communist card, you DODGED it, and hid under the table.

And then after that dishonor of you, you have the gall to come back and flash that moronic communist card again. You are a piece of work, fit for a cess pool,


----------



## protectionist (Dec 6, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Nope, he adapted to the situation with an eye to making his life better.  I didn't hear him saying that he wanted someone to subsidize him.
> 
> IT IS MORON.  IF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WERE NOT WILLING OR ABLE TO PAY (BEAR) THE COST, THE PRODUCT, RENT OR SERVICE WOULD GO UNUSED.  You are obtuse, you can't be this stupid.


MORON!!  It is NOT the American people who are paying the exhorbitant rents here, it is Biden's migrants. And those few Americans who can afford it, and are paying it, are suffering the loss of other things that money could/should be spent for, as are thousands of other businesses suffering LOSSES$$$ of those Sales$, which in your selfish greed, you care nothing about.  Scum like you are the cancers of this country.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 6, 2021)

protectionist said:


> asked you to justify your assinine communist card,


What did I have to dodge, tovarish, you have made it abundantly clear to everyone following this thread just exactly what you are.  For me to add to it would just be redundant.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 6, 2021)

protectionist said:


> MORON!!  It is NOT the American people who are paying the exhorbitant rents here, it is Biden's migrants. And those few Americans who can afford it, and are paying it, are suffering the loss of other things that money could/should be spent for, as are thousands of other businesses suffering LOSSES$$$ of those Sales$, which in your selfish greed, you care nothing about.  Scum like you are the cancers of this country.


OH BOO HOO HOO!  Sounds like a personal problem, call someone who gives a fuck.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 6, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Nope, he adapted to the situation with an eye to making his life better.  I didn't hear him saying that he wanted someone to subsidize him.


He said he'd ride a bicycle. So just like the renters he would be suffering some loss (loss of use of a car) But he's lying.  He'd rather have the price controls and keep his car. 

 And nobody is "subsidized" by not being a theft victim. Cops don't subsidize us by keeping muggers from robbing us.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 6, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> What did I have to dodge, tovarish, you have made it abundantly clear to everyone following this thread just exactly what you are.  For me to add to it would just be redundant.


Yeah, exactly what I am. A RESPONSIBLE citizen who holds landlords to be accountable, same as other businesses, who comply with doing what is right for all Americans.

And you have made it abundantly clear to everyone following this thread just exactly what you are. > A real estate investor with a vested interest, who is so bia$ed from your own greed, you shouldn't even be in this thread at all.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 6, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> OH BOO HOO HOO!  Sounds like a personal problem, call someone who gives a fuck.


No, it is a nationwide societal problem, and the problem is YOU, and those of your ilk.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 6, 2021)

protectionist said:


> No, it is a nationwide societal problem, and the problem is YOU, and those of your ilk.


I'm done for tonight.  Attempting to talk sense to you is exhausting.  You remind me of my ex-wife, my salary was OUR money, her salary was HER money.  Your attitude is identical.  
Night night child.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 6, 2021)

So in the final analysis, what should we as ACTUAL concerned Americans do to try to rectify this wildy out of control  lunacy, that has taken over our housing supply ?  At the very least, we should* contact our elected representitives*, local, state, and federal, and request some legislation be passed to control all these skyrocketing housing costs.

Sure, its a common answer that the politicians don't care, but that is wrong. They care about getting re-elected, and if they hear from enough people on this issue, it can make an impact.  If politicians DON'T hear from us, they think we're happy. Actually, they have a right to think that. It is our job to contact them, and keep bugging them about it.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 6, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Oh so you'd rather have $500/gallon, than a price control keeping it at $3/gallon. You're full of shit.  As for electric vehicles, what if the price of a charge went to $7,500 each.
> Still dont want the price control ?  LOL/



How would price controls bring $500 gasoline down to $3?

Be specific.


----------



## surada (Dec 6, 2021)

protectionist said:


> He said he'd ride a bicycle. So just like the renters he would be suffering some loss (loss of use of a car) But he's lying.  He'd rather have the price controls and keep his car.
> 
> And nobody is "subsidized" by not being a theft victim. Cops don't subsidize us by keeping muggers from robbing us.



Are you saying landlords are theives and you are a victim?


----------



## dblack (Dec 6, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I give a rat's ass if it does or not.


Oh I know. Free shit!!!


----------



## eagle1462010 (Dec 6, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I give a rat's ass if it does or not.  I donate to the ASPCA every month.  Doesn't say it in the Constitution.


You are donating money every month when you are about to be homeless??????????????

Makes NO SENSE


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 6, 2021)

eagle1462010 said:


> You are donating money every month when you are about to be homeless??????????????
> 
> Makes NO SENSE



He's been known to make bad financial decisions.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 6, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> Then you had crap jobs or were living too high on the hog.  I'm comfortable now because I sacrificed when I was younger.  I drove old cars until the wheels fell off, I didn't go out much, when I went to a movie, it was a bargain matenee or at a dollar theater.  When I bought my first house it one that I could easily afford even though I had to make a three hour round trip commute or more.  I lost that house to the Clinton Housing bubble.  I sacrificed some more and bought a condo, again that I could afford ( barely).  I sold that and moved to Arizona where housing is cheaper and used the proceeds to buy a decent retirement home and fix it up.  We had a saying when I was in the Army in the early seventies "failing to prepare is preparing to fail."  You obviously spent your life preparing to fail.


If I did then so did you. because your story is about identical to mine (except I went from California to Florida)


----------



## protectionist (Dec 6, 2021)

eagle1462010 said:


> You are donating money every month when you are about to be homeless??????????????
> 
> Makes NO SENSE


1. I'm not about to be homeless. I can pay the $250/mo increase, but many others in my complex can't. THEY ARE about to become homeless, or go live with relatives if they're lucky (which is a form of homelessness)

Still the $250/mo increase in rent is akin to being mugged for $250, and then having that mugging happen again, once every month thereafter.

2.  The donation the the ASPCA is just $19/month, and I've been doing it for 2 years, long before the pillagers showed up (October 2021)


----------



## protectionist (Dec 6, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> No, not at all.  I'd be taking responsibility for myself, something you are refusing to do,


That's what YOU are refusing to do.  You refuse to take responsibility for s product that is a basic necessity to millions of people. and you IRresponsibly act like all you have to do is respond to the "market".  Not acceptable.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 6, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> How would price controls bring $500 gasoline down to $3?
> 
> Be specific.


By capping the price at $3/gallon. Duh!

And it isn't $500 gasoline. There is no definition to the price, just as there isnt any definition to the price of housing rents.  Landlords are only charging sky high rents because they are able to, and they are greedy, and lack responsibilty regarding anything outside of their bank accounts.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 6, 2021)

surada said:


> Are you saying landlords are theives and you are a victim?


Absolutely.  It's like being mugged for $250 every month.

2 years ago, it was like being mugged for $350 every month.  

That's it, in a nutshell.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 6, 2021)

dblack said:


> Oh I know. Free shit!!!


That's how the landlords see it.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 7, 2021)

protectionist said:


> By capping the price at $3/gallon. Duh!
> 
> And it isn't $500 gasoline. There is no definition to the price, just as there isnt any definition to the price of housing rents.  Landlords are only charging sky high rents because they are able to, and they are greedy, and lack responsibilty regarding anything outside of their bank accounts.



*By capping the price at $3/gallon. Duh!*

For gasoline to be $500, oil would have to be at least $15,000 a barrel.
How many refiners are going to buy $15,000 oil to sell $3 gasoline?


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 7, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Absolutely.  It's like being mugged for $250 every month.
> 
> 2 years ago, it was like being mugged for $350 every month.
> 
> That's it, in a nutshell.


It is their property, they own it.  If you don't like the rent, MOVE.  If they provide a serviceable, up to code lodging, they have met their obligation.  People charge what they want for their property.  A good example was a couple years ago when they raised the price on epi pens by like 800% and that was for a life saving drug.  It sucks to be you, but that's life.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 7, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> He's been known to make bad financial decisions.


Actually I made great financial decisions. In the 80s, I started a business on $35 of start up capital, and expanded it to 3 branch offices in 3 counties. Netted $270,000/year (2021 dollars) for 3 years in a row, back then.

Could have expanded it even more but, I could not live in California one more minute.
Took big losses in selling the business, and my belongings, and getting the hell out of there, and then going to Florida at a bad economic time (1989) just before the 1990 recession.  In 1989, nobody knew unemployment was going to jump from 5% to 8%  year later.  That was the economy., not my "decision".  Sometimes things just happen that way.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 7, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *By capping the price at $3/gallon. Duh!*
> 
> For gasoline to be $500, oil would have to be at least $15,000 a barrel.
> How many refiners are going to buy $15,000 oil to sell $3 gasoline?


The $500/gallon was for demonstrative purposes. Duh!

Demonstrating your hypocrisy.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 7, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> It is their property, they own it.  If you don't like the rent, MOVE.  If they provide a serviceable, up to code lodging, they have met their obligation.  People charge what they want for their property.  A good example was a couple years ago when they raised the price on epi pens by like 800% and that was for a life saving drug.  It sucks to be you, but that's life.


Why should all the burden be on the renters ? (millions of them)

If the landlords_ "dont like" _keeping rents at rates affordable to millions of renters (their _"obligation"_), let them sell some other product that doesn't impact people's fundamental livelihoods and basic survival.

If the sellers of epi pens raised their price 800% for that, and it was a life saving drug, and people lost lives because of it, there should have been a law to stop that , and they should have been jailed, or given the death penalty.

You play any musical instruments ? ( to a professional level)


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 7, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Why should all the burden be on the renters ?


Because they have no skin in the game.  The land owner pays taxes, insurance, mortgage, upkeep and has to make up for losses from deadbeat tenants and tenants that trash the property.  You entitled POS, things are rough all over, quit whining.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 7, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Because they have no skin in the game.  The land owner pays taxes, insurance, mortgage, upkeep and has to make up for losses from deadbeat tenants and tenants that trash the property.  You entitled POS, things are rough all over, quit whining.


They have more skin in the game than anybody.  The LIVE in their rental houses or apartments. It is their last sanctuary against the outside world. It is their foundation of their life - until the raiders come along like medieval Vikings, Mongols, attacking their bank accounts.

These raiders don't have to do anything as far as the increases are concerned. The previous owners who sold to them were doing fine for years. Nothing needed to be changed.  These muggers are just looking to score big bucks to feed their greed.

And the thread is not about those scum. It's about the renters faced with being mugged for hundreds of $$$ every month.  Under ordinary conditions, muggers in the street would be shot dead right on the spot, for doing what these landlord muggers are doing.


----------



## dblack (Dec 7, 2021)

protectionist said:


> And the thread is not about those scum. It's about the renters faced with being mugged for hundreds of $$$ every month.  Under ordinary conditions, muggers in the street would be shot dead right on the spot, for doing what these landlord muggers are doing.


It's about employing government to force your will on others.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 7, 2021)

protectionist said:


> The $500/gallon was for demonstrative purposes. Duh!
> 
> Demonstrating your hypocrisy.



You came up with an imaginary scenario to get me to agree to 
unworkable price controls and I pointed out your idiocy.

You don't understand how that idiocy extends to rent control. 

Because you're an idiot. So where is the hypocrisy?


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 7, 2021)

protectionist said:


> And the thread is not about those scum. It's about the renters faced with being mugged for hundreds of $$$ every month.


Listen you stupid commie fuck.  Those landlords don't get that property for free.  The cost of things is what it is.  If you want to live in communism--go there, don't let the door hit you in the ass.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 7, 2021)

dblack said:


> It's about employing government to force your will on others.


The will of millions of renters, to keep rental rates fair, reasonable, affordable, and for AMERICANS (not just rich foreigners).  The will to not be mugged for hundreds of $$$ every month.  Good will.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 7, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> You came up with an imaginary scenario to get me to agree to
> unworkable price controls and I pointed out your idiocy.
> 
> You don't understand how that idiocy extends to rent control.
> ...


The hypocrisy is that while you would not tolerate housing rents being limited, you're perfectly OK with gas prices being limited, if they were $500.gallon (because that would affect YOU).  Hypocrite.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 7, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Listen you stupid commie fuck.  Those landlords don't get that property for free.  The cost of things is what it is.  If you want to live in communism--go there, don't let the door hit you in the ass.


No dumbass - your laughingstock "commie" card crashed and burned in this thread days ago, when I pointed out that all businesses are limited by law, in what they do.

You just want housing rents to be an exception to that, because you have some vested interest in it, and then you ludicrously blabber about "costs", when you know damn well that has nothing to do with the rent spikes in Florida.

All you're doing by calling me a "commie" is further eradicating any credibility you have (if you ever had any), when I've been in this forum for 8 years, have hundreds of OPs, 44,000 posts, and everybody knows me as a staunch, conservative NATIONALIST - the exact opposite of INTERnationaltionalist communism ("Workers of the WORLD, Unite" 

The more you post, the more credibility you lose.  Your posts would actually be victories for me, if I gave a damn.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 7, 2021)

protectionist said:


> The hypocrisy is that while you would not tolerate housing rents being limited, you're perfectly OK with gas prices being limited, if they were $500.gallon (because that would affect YOU).  Hypocrite.



I'm not ok with gas prices being limited. Stupid idea. Like rent control is a stupid idea.

Aside from the fact that all mandating $500 gas be sold at $3 would do is cause the supply to drop to zero.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 7, 2021)

protectionist said:


> when I pointed out that all businesses are limited by law, in what they do.



Where are all businesses limited by law in what they can charge?


----------



## HenryBHough (Dec 7, 2021)

NO rent control without:

PRICE controls on heating fuel
CAPS on property taxes
PRICE controls on electricity
CAPS on water/sewer bills
WAGE limits on janitorial services


Get the picture?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 7, 2021)

protectionist said:


> when I've been in this forum for 8 years, have hundreds of OPs, 44,000 posts, and everybody knows me as a staunch, conservative NATIONALIST



And then you turned into a whiney liberal.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro (Dec 7, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> And then you turned into a whiney liberal.



Actually, he's your typical conservative.  Preaches small government until it doesn't work for him.  Then he's talking like a big government leftist.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 7, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not ok with gas prices being limited. Stupid idea. Like rent control is a stupid idea.
> ...


Doesn't matter how they are limited.  Form follows function (fell asleep in class when they taught you that ?)


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 7, 2021)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Actually, he's your typical conservative.  Preaches small government until it doesn't work for him.  Then he's talking like a big government leftist.



No, he's a whiney liberal.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 7, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> I'm not ok with gas prices being limited. Stupid idea. Like rent control is a stupid idea.
> 
> Aside from the fact that all mandating $500 gas be sold at $3 would do is cause the supply to drop to zero.


HA HA HA.. Oh yeah, you'd be running to the gas pumps with a martini in your hand celebrating the new prices of $500/gallon.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 7, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Doesn't matter how they are limited.  Form follows function (fell asleep in class when they taught you that ?)



LOL!

How much gas will be refined if oil is $15,000 a barrel but gas can only be sold at $3?

Use your form follows function lessons.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 7, 2021)

protectionist said:


> HA HA HA.. Oh yeah, you'd be running to the gas pumps with a martini in your hand celebrating the new prices of $500/gallon.



Pointing out the idiocy of your $3 gas mandate means I'd celebrate?

You're actually getting dumber as the thread goes on.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 7, 2021)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Actually, he's your typical conservative.  Preaches small government until it doesn't work for him.  Then he's talking like a big government leftist.


You're not able to define rent control as leftist, because most leftist (blue) states have laws banning rent control (didn't you know ?) - it's neither left nor right.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 7, 2021)

HenryBHough said:


> NO rent control without:
> 
> PRICE controls on heating fuel
> CAPS on property taxes
> ...


The picture is > FFF (Form Follows Function)


----------



## protectionist (Dec 7, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> And then you turned into a whiney liberal.


Lets see ....uh.....
1.  I'm for mass deportation of all illegal aliens.
2.  Islam is banned in America by the Supremacy Clause. Therefore all mosques should be shut down.  All Korans eliminated.
3.  Affirmative Action should be banned nationwide, and whites should be paid reparations$$, for 57 years of racial discrimination victimization.
4.  CCW should be the law nationwide.
5.  Gun free zones should be abolished.
6.  Teachers should be trained and armed.
7.  Police shootings that sparked riots, were mostly justified homicide.
8.  Military equipment for police is a good idea.
9.  Police budgets should be increased.
10.  Homosexuals are sex pervert lunatics.
11. Tran sexual men should not be permitted to compete in women sports. And stop referring to them as she and her.
12.  Gay "pride" is a coverup for gay shame (what is there to be proud of ?)
13.  The 2020 election was stolen by massive fraud.  Trump is the true POTUS.
14.  The SCOTUS should uphold the Mississippi 15 week abortion law. Roe vs Wade should die.
15.  Trump had the most extensive list of positive accomplishments of any president in US history.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 7, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> LOL!
> 
> How much gas will be refined if oil is $15,000 a barrel but gas can only be sold at $3?
> 
> Use your form follows function lessons.


False hypothetical.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 7, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Pointing out the idiocy of your $3 gas mandate means I'd celebrate?
> 
> You're actually getting dumber as the thread goes on.


You said >_ "I'm not ok with gas prices being limited"...._  LIE.


----------



## dblack (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> The will of millions of renters, to keep rental rates fair, reasonable, affordable, and for AMERICANS (not just rich foreigners).  The will to not be mugged for hundreds of $$$ every month.  Good will.


Uh... mkay. Socialism much?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Lets see ....uh.....
> 1.  I'm for mass deportation of all illegal aliens.
> 2.  Islam is banned in America by the Supremacy Clause. Therefore all mosques should be shut down.  All Korans eliminated.
> 3.  Affirmative Action should be banned nationwide, and whites should be paid reparations$$, for 57 years of racial discrimination victimization.
> ...



And then you turned into a whiney liberal.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> False hypothetical.



It was your silly hypothetical.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> You said >_ "I'm not ok with gas prices being limited"...._  LIE.



Yes I did.

And then when you gave me your plan to do so, I pointed out your idiocy.


----------



## dblack (Dec 8, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> And then you turned into a whiney liberal.


It's baked into his handle.

Statism supersedes left/right.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

dblack said:


> Uh... mkay. Socialism much?


The US, all our lives, has been a combination of socialism & capitalism. Are you just refusing to face that fact ?

PS - most businesses just take it in stride, and roll with it.  Unlike whiney landlords.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> And then you turned into a whiney liberal.


No, I still have all those positions right now.  
When did you turn into a WHINEY landlord ?  Just mention the words rent control, and the room gets flooded with your tears.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Yes I did.
> 
> And then when you gave me your plan to do so, I pointed out your idiocy.


I had no plan. I just presented a hypothetical, and you showed your hypocrisy by being against controlling rent, but you oppose gas pries of $500/gallon.   How about if price of meat went up 1000%.  You'd celebrate ?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

dblack said:


> It's baked into his handle.
> 
> Statism supersedes left/right.


Rent control is not statism. It is PEOPLEism. aka democracy.  Time to vote out politicians who support rent gouging. aka THEFT.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> No, I still have all those positions right now.



And you added: stealing private property.

*When did you turn into a WHINEY landlord ? *

Are you kidding?
You couldn't pay me enough to deal with whiney tenant assholes like you.

*Just mention the words rent control, *

Did you ever admit your gasoline price control error?
Pretty clear evidence you don't understand economics.....like a whiney lib.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I had no plan. I just presented a hypothetical, and you showed your hypocrisy by being against controlling rent, but you oppose gas pries of $500/gallon.   How about if price of meat went up 1000%.  You'd celebrate ?



*I just presented a hypothetical,*

A pretty fucking stupid one.

*and you showed your hypocrisy by being against controlling rent, but you oppose gas pries of $500/gallon. *

I'm against rent control and I'm against gasoline price controls.

*How about if price of meat went up 1000%*

I'd be sad. I'd also be against meat price controls.

*You'd celebrate ?*

That would be stupid. Sounds like more your thing.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

All those in this thread who oppose having some rent control to fight the insane rent increases in the Tampa Bay area, answer this >

How would you feel about (starting Jan 1st) $350 coming out of your pocket, every month, with nothing given to you more than what you already have ?

Or this ?  Being mugged on the street for $350, once a month, indefinitely.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> And you added: stealing private property.
> 
> *When did you turn into a WHINEY landlord ? *
> 
> ...


1.  Raising an apartment rent from $550/month to $900 (now it's gone up to $1,090) is landlord STEALING from the renter.

2.  Nobody in this forum has ever whined more that you have in this thread.  Complaining about being robbed by a lowlife landlord, is commenting, not whining.

3.  I have no error.  I demonstrated that you're a hypocrite.  You will steal money from elderly, low-income renters who are essentially defenseless, and unable to move, but when somebody raises prices on you, you're upset.

Strike 1..........Strike 2..........Strike 3.   

BTW, I taught microeconomics in college years ago, and am a former business owner, and I could still run rings around you with that.  You're probably one of those dummies who thinks the firm can always simply raise prices on customers, when hit with a cost increase.  Right ?  Right, Mr Conservative ? You're not impressing me, junior.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> All those in this thread who oppose having some rent control to fight the insane rent increases in the Tampa Bay area, answer this >
> 
> How would you feel about (starting Jan 1st) $350 coming out of your pocket, every month, with nothing given to you more than what you already have ?
> 
> ...



Sounds like the market telling you to move.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *I just presented a hypothetical,*
> 
> A pretty fucking stupid one.
> 
> ...


You call the hypothetical "stupid", because you don't like that it showed you to be a hypocrite. Only thing stupid is your hypocrisy.  

My ass, you're against gasoline price controls. If they raised it to $500/gallon, you'd be screaming bloody murder, same as everybody else. Your pretense is about as hidden as the full moon on a cloudless night.  lol

You'd be screaming about meat prices too. You'd probably be ranting at your reps to take action.  Give us a break.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> 1.  Raising an apartment rent from $550/month to $900 (now it's gone up to $1,090) is landlord STEALING from the renter.
> 
> 2.  Nobody in this forum has ever whined more that you have in this thread.  Complaining about being robbed by a lowlife landlord, is commenting, not whining.
> 
> ...



*1. Raising an apartment rent from $550/month to $900 (now it's gone up to $1,090) is landlord STEALING from the renter.*

Liar.

*2.  Nobody in this forum has ever whined more that you have in this thread.*

Highlighting your whiney liberal idiocy is the opposite of whining.
*
3.  I have no error. *

You thought $500 gas could be priced at $3, by government edict.
Huge error.
*
BTW, I taught microeconomics in college years ago, *

You should take another look at what your textbooks said about price controls.

*and am a former business owner,*

You should have saved more....maybe you wouldn't be such a whiney liberal?

*You're probably one of those dummies who thinks the firm can always simply raise prices on customers, when hit with a cost increase.*

I'm one of those dummies who understands a demand curve and a supply curve. 

*You're not impressing me, junior.*

Likewise, thief.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Sounds like the market telling you to move.


There IS NO "market".  Sounds like landlord THEFT.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> You call the hypothetical "stupid", because you don't like that it showed you to be a hypocrite. Only thing stupid is your hypocrisy.
> 
> My ass, you're against gasoline price controls. If they raised it to $500/gallon, you'd be screaming bloody murder,Your pretense is about as hidden as the full moon on a cloudless night.  lol
> 
> You'd be screaming about meat prices too. You'd probably be ranting at your reps to take action.  Give us a break.



*You call the hypothetical "stupid",*

Yeah, thinking you can turn $500 gas into $3 gas, pretty fucking stupid.

*because you don't like that it showed you to be a hypocrite.*

I'm against rent control, I'm against gas price control. No hypocrisy.

*If they raised it to $500/gallon, you'd be screaming bloody murder,*

Yes, I'd be pissed. Only you're dumb enough to think price controls would fix it.

I asked before, how much gas would be refined with $15,000 a barrel oil with a $3 fixed price?
More or less than is refined today?  Use your teaching expertise. Or run away again.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> There IS NO "market".  Sounds like landlord THEFT.



No market, eh comrade?

*Sounds like landlord THEFT.*

Da, property is theft, tovarisch.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *1. Raising an apartment rent from $550/month to $900 (now it's gone up to $1,090) is landlord STEALING from the renter.*
> 
> Liar.
> 
> ...


Oh, so now you call me a liar. Well, I stated easily provable FACT. So let's do this. Let's make a bet.  We'll consult the apartment complex I am talking about, and find out what was the rent for the "Azealea" apartment (smallest one in the complex) a few years ago, and what is that apartment renting for now.

If I'm wrong, I'll stay out of USMB for a year. Ig I'm right you apologize to me for calling me a liar, and then you stay out of USMB for a year.  You game ?

LOL.  The only thing you're "highlighting" is your whining about reasonable rent controls.  And you still make the mistake about rent control being "liberal". I corrected you on that about 10 times already.  Slow learner.

I told you there is no such thing as $500/gallon gas.  It's a hypothetical, dum dum. Ans sure it could be proceed at $3/gallon. If necessary, the government could the more action than that. Form follows function.  Anything could be done and it SHOULD, when the cause is to PROTECT the public (something lowlife weasels like you have no care about)

Demand curve and a supply curve, huh ? DODGE!  Run rabbit, run.

YOU are the THIEF ( and a deranged one at that)


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *You call the hypothetical "stupid",*
> 
> Yeah, thinking you can turn $500 gas into $3 gas, pretty fucking stupid.
> 
> ...


Absolutely, a gas price could be set at $3/gallon, and you're an idiot for thinking it couldnt. Go ahead and jack your gas price up, when the govt says you cant. I'll bring a  fruit basket to your jail cell.

LOL.  You're against gas price control, like I am Winston Churchill.

What amount of gas would be refined is the same amount that is refined now, while gas prices ARE about $3/gallon, the price of a barrel of oil would be the same as now.
Of course it would help if Donald Trump was still president, instead of the guy with his brains falling out of his head.

As for running away, I didn't see any response to the scenario I mentioned about costs being passed on to consumers.  Run away again ?


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Lets see ....uh.....
> 1.  I'm for mass deportation of all illegal aliens.
> 2.  Islam is banned in America by the Supremacy Clause. Therefore all mosques should be shut down.  All Korans eliminated.
> 3.  Affirmative Action should be banned nationwide, and whites should be paid reparations$$, for 57 years of racial discrimination victimization.
> ...


HaHaHa, and Trump is opposed to rent control, you're getting lost in your own pretzel.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Oh, so now you call me a liar. Well, I stated easily provable FACT. So let's do this. Let's make a bet.  We'll consult the apartment complex I am talking about, and find out what was the rent for the "Azealea" apartment (smallest one in the complex) a few years ago, and what is that apartment renting for now.
> 
> If I'm wrong, I'll stay out of USMB for a year. Ig I'm right you apologize to me for calling me a liar, and then you stay out of USMB for a year.  You game ?
> 
> ...



*Oh, so now you call me a liar.*

Only because you are.

* The only thing you're "highlighting" is your whining about reasonable rent controls.  *

Rent controls are a stupid idea. Not as stupid as ordering $500 gas to be $3 gas.

*I told you there is no such thing as $500/gallon gas.  It's a hypothetical, dum dum.*

Tell me again the government can make it $3, just by ordering it to be $3. DURR

*And sure it could be proceed [priced] at $3/gallon. *

Because you're an idiot, professor.

*Demand curve and a supply curve, huh ? *

Yup.

*DODGE!  Run rabbit, run.*

Sure thing, whiner.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> No market, eh comrade?
> 
> *Sounds like landlord THEFT.*
> 
> Da, property is theft, tovarisch.


That's right. What is happening in the Tampa Bay area now, is not "market" anything. It is pure THEFT and GREED, and opportunism related to unusual overpopulation. You are clueless.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> HaHaHa, and Trump is opposed to rent control, you're getting lost in your own pretzel.


FALSE!  Trump has not made any statement about rent control pertaining to the current housing crisis in Tampa Bay, and the unusual situation. In fact, if anything could be deduced, he would likely be in favor of rent control IN THIS INSTANCE, because it is heavily coming from Biden's open border migrant dumps, something Trump is 100% against.
You're not "getting" lost in this. You have been all along, and still are.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Azealea" apartment (smallest one in the complex) a few years ago, and what is that apartment renting for now.


In my area, gasoline was $2.25 10 months ago, now it is $3.55--that is over a 50% increase.  We are paying it because we live in a capitalist society.  Likewise, rents increase.  Prices continually rise on everything.  If you don't like the rent--MOVE.  You can twist your communist logic in any direction you want and you can lie that you are a conservative all you want, but when you spout this communist leftist bullshit, your true colors are revealed and I don't GAF if you have posted the same lies 40 million times, they are still lies.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> That's right. What is happening in the Tampa Bay area now, is not "market" anything. It is pure THEFT and GREED, and opportunism related to unusual overpopulation. You are clueless.


So what, that is their right as the land owner.  Don't like it?  MOVE.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Absolutely, a gas price could be set at $3/gallon, and you're an idiot for thinking it couldnt. Go ahead and jack your gas price up, when the govt says you cant. I'll bring a  fruit basket to your jail cell.
> 
> LOL.  You're against gas price control, like I am Winston Churchill.
> 
> ...



*Absolutely, a gas price could be set at $3/gallon, and you're an idiot for thinking it couldnt.*

I asked before, how much gas would be refined with $15,000 a barrel oil with a $3 fixed price?

*Go ahead and jack your gas price up, when the govt says you cant. *

Are they going to force me to refine $15,000 oil?

*LOL.  You're against gas price control, like I am Winston Churchill.*

Winston was much, much smarter than you. You're more like AOC.

*What amount of gas would be refined is the same amount that is refined now, while gas prices ARE about $3/gallon, the price of a barrel of oil would be the same as now.*

Wrong. For gas to ever be priced at $500, oil would have to be at least $15,000.

You don't understand anything about economics. 
Did the college fire you? Is that why you're poor?

*I didn't see any response to the scenario I mentioned about costs being passed on to consumers.  *

How much gas would be refined with $70 oil, if the government said gas had to be 3 cents a gallon?


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> FALSE!  Trump has not made any statement about rent control pertaining to the current housing crisis in Tampa Bay, and the unusual situation. In fact, if anything could be deduced, he would likely be in favor of rent control IN THIS INSTANCE, because it is heavily coming from Biden's open border migrant dumps, something Trump is 100% against.
> You're not "getting" lost in this. You have been all along, and still are.


You are still wrong moron, Trump is a staunch free market advocate--not a liberal commie.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *Oh, so now you call me a liar.*
> 
> Only because you are.
> 
> ...


So you say I'm a liar, but you PUNK OUT from my challenge, in which I can prove what I say (which you know nothing about).  And isn't that interesting also.  Why would you think I'm lying about an apartment rent going from $550/month to $1,090 in a few years ? You think that is odd ? 

It is what is happening here all over the Tampa Bay area. It is the "rule", not the exception.  You are clueless.

Damn fool. there is no such thing as $500/gallon. You are dense.

OK. The govt can make it be $3, by ordering it to be $3.  Happy ?

No, it is not supply and demand.  The scenario I mentioned, has to do with demand and PRICE, not supply.  It also has to do with SALES (and I just gave you the answer because you've been stumbling long enough, unable to understand what I was talking about.  Good thing you weren't one of my students.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> but when somebody raises prices on you, you're upset.


No one is calling for price controls except you.  I am the same age as you are.  I took responsibility for my life and adapt to adverse conditions without asking for any government interaction.  Take it down the road commie.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> So you say I'm a liar, but you PUNK OUT from my challenge, in which i cam prove what I say (which you know nothing about).  And isn't that interesting also.  Why would you think I'm lying about an apartment rent going from $550/month to $1,090 in a few years. You think that is odd ?
> 
> It is what is happening here all over the Tampa Bay area. It is the "rule", not the exception.  You are clueless.
> 
> ...



*So you say I'm a liar,*

You said a rent hike is theft.....that's a lie.

You said my opposition to rent controls  AND gas price controls was hypocritical....that's a lie.

*Why would you think I'm lying about an apartment rent going from $550/month to $1,090 in a few years. *

I didn't say your rent claims were lies. Your solutions are moronic. I guess that makes you a moron.

*Damn fool. there is no such thing as $500/gallon. You are dense.*

Come up with a less moronic hypothetical.

*OK. The govt can make it be $3, by ordering it to be $3.  Happy ?*

Why hasn't congress ordered it to be 3 cents?

*No, it is not supply and demand.  The scenario I mentioned has to do with demand and PRICE, not supply. *

How much $15,000 oil is demanded by refiners when gas can only be sold at $3? DURR

*Good thing you weren't one of my students. *

Good thing. When I questioned your idiotic claims, all your students would see your ignorance.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *Absolutely, a gas price could be set at $3/gallon, and you're an idiot for thinking it couldnt.*
> 
> I asked before, how much gas would be refined with $15,000 a barrel oil with a $3 fixed price?
> 
> ...


What makes you think oil would cost $15,000/barrel ?

FALSE!  Gas price at the pump is not rigidly connected to the price of oil.  The price of oil could be dirt cheap, and if the gas station owners saw fit, (and were as lowlife as landlords) they could just price gouge us, and charge whatever they want (as long as they cartel themselves and all of them are doing that)

The only thing that could stop them is the government.  Back to the 4th grade for you.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> What makes you think oil would cost $15,000/barrel ?
> 
> FALSE!  Gas price at the pump is not rigidly connected to the price of oil.  The price of oil could be dirt cheap, and if the gas station owners saw fit, (and were as lowlife as landlords) they could just price gouge us, and charge whatever they want (as long as they cartel themselves and all of them are doing that)
> 
> The only thing that could stop them is the government.  Back to the 4th grade for you.


You've lost touch with reality and you don't deserve anymore time.  If you were a teacher, then your students were robbed because you are a fucking insane moron.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> You are still wrong moron, Trump is a staunch free market advocate--not a liberal commie.


Now you show again your capacity to shoot from the hip without thinking out what you're saying. Go back and reread what I said about Trump, and the current Tampa Bay housing crisis (maybe a little slower this time)

Then, I invite you to show one instance of Trump specifically addressing the current Tampa Bay housing crisis, with a source link it back it up.  

And Trump is NOT a "free" market advocate. He advocates private enterprise, not "free" enterprise. Maybe you hadn't noticed that Trump went after big Pharma when they were price gouging seniors, on prescription meds.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> What makes you think oil would cost $15,000/barrel ?
> 
> FALSE!  Gas price at the pump is not rigidly connected to the price of oil.  The price of oil could be dirt cheap, and if the gas station owners saw fit, (and were as lowlife as landlords) they could just price gouge us, and charge whatever they want (as long as they cartel themselves and all of them are doing that)
> 
> The only thing that could stop them is the government.  Back to the 4th grade for you.



*What makes you think oil would cost $15,000/barrel ?*

What else would cause gas to hit $500 a gallon?





Yes, price controls trying to bring $500 gas down to $3 would be stupid. Really stupid.

*The price of oil could be dirt cheap, and if the gas station owners saw fit, (and were as lowlife as landlords) they could just price gouge us, and charge whatever they want (as long as they cartel themselves and all of them are doing that)*

Damn, you're doubling down on stupid.

How much are gas station owners paying for gas now? How much are they charging?
Why aren't they currently charging double or triple?


----------



## surada (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> What makes you think oil would cost $15,000/barrel ?
> 
> FALSE!  Gas price at the pump is not rigidly connected to the price of oil.  The price of oil could be dirt cheap, and if the gas station owners saw fit, (and were as lowlife as landlords) they could just price gouge us, and charge whatever they want (as long as they cartel themselves and all of them are doing that)
> 
> The only thing that could stop them is the government.  Back to the 4th grade for you.



What cartel are you talking about? US petroleum is always more expensive than OPEC.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> You've lost touch with reality and you don't deserve anymore time.  If you were a teacher, then your students were robbed because you are a fucking insane moron.


Well suppose YOU were one of my students, Mr Reality.  And suppose I posed the same question to you that I posed to Toddsterpatriot, in Post # 381 (which he ran away from , and is still running)  

 You think the firm can always simply raise prices on customers, when hit with a cost increase ? Just pass the cost on to them ?  Well student. What's your answer ?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> You're probably one of those dummies who thinks the firm can always simply raise prices on customers, when hit with a cost increase. Right ? Right, Mr Conservative ? You're not impressing me, junior.



Sometimes they can, sometimes they can't.

And?

Teach me, professor. LOL!


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Now you show again your capacity to shoot from the hip without thinking out what you're saying. Go back and reread what I said about Trump, and the current Tampa Bay housing crisis (maybe a little slower this time)
> 
> Then, I invite you to show one instance of Trump specifically addressing the current Tampa Bay housing crisis, with a source link it back it up.
> 
> And Trump is NOT a "free" market advocate. He advocates private enterprise, not "free" enterprise. Maybe you hadn't noticed that Trump went after big Pharma when they were price gouging seniors, on prescription meds.


Listen you senile fuck, you present hyperbole and then try to blame it on your opposition in some feeble attempt to justify robbing from legitimate property owners.  There is NO justification for trying to force a legal property owner to charge a lower price because you don't want to pay it.  Logically, there are people who are willing and able to pay that rent or it would sit vacant.  I've explained it to you ad infinitum and I'm tired of beating my head against the wall in order to show your fallacies.  So shut the fuck up, you're not worth my time.


----------



## surada (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Well suppose YOU were one of my students, Mr Reality.  And suppose I posed the same question to you that I posed to Toddsterpatriot, in Post # 381 (which he ran away from , and is still running)
> 
> You think the firm can always simply raise prices on customers, when hit with a cost increase ? Just pass the cost on to them ?  Well student. What's your answer ?



The answer is YES.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Well suppose YOU were one of my students, Mr Reality.  And suppose I posed the same question to you that I posed to Toddsterpatriot, in Post # 381 (which he ran away from , and is still running)
> 
> You think the firm can always simply raise prices on customers, when hit with a cost increase ? Just pass the cost on to them ?  Well student. What's your answer ?



If oil goes up to $200 a barrel, will gasoline prices increase? LOL!


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

surada said:


> What cartel are you talking about? US petroleum is always more expensive than OPEC.


Hypothetical cartelling among gas stations.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

surada said:


> The answer is YES.


WRONG!  They CANNOT.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Well suppose YOU were one of my students, Mr Reality.  And suppose I posed the same question to you that I posed to Toddsterpatriot, in Post # 381 (which he ran away from , and is still running)
> 
> You think the firm can always simply raise prices on customers, when hit with a cost increase ? Just pass the cost on to them ?  Well student. What's your answer ?


I'm not your student.  I would never submit to education by moron.  In answer to your ignorant question--the last ten months have shown that producers can raise the price on ANYTHING THEY WANT AND HAVE.  Gas is up, food is up, rent is up.  STFU, if you ever had any shit together, you've become senile and lost any touch with reality.  So there is the answer to your question but you will refuse to grasp the logic and reality because you are so senile and jaded.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *What makes you think oil would cost $15,000/barrel ?*
> 
> What else would cause gas to hit $500 a gallon?
> View attachment 573475
> ...


The reason they're not charging double or triple, is the same answer as to the question you ran away from in Post # 381.  Surada got it wrong, but at least he had the guts to post an answer, while your chicken shit posts just deflected.

The answer is that generally, the firm cannot raise prices above what their market price is because doing so, causes their SALES to drop, and income accordingly, to less that what it was before that price increase.  That's is why a PRICE is what it is.

It is the highest price the firm is ABLE to charge, without triggering sales reductions resulting in LO$$ES.

In the case of gas at the pump, the convenience stores have a bit more leverage than most commodities. That's because (like housing & food), they are selling a product that people have to have, and the customers can't just stop buying alltogether.  But unlike housing, the gas stations don't have total leverage.  Consumers can REDUCE their purchases. They can change their driving habits. Instead of driving all over Florida for recreation, they could stay in their local communities, and see attractions there.  The could stay home, and watch TV instead of going out to theaters, sports events etc.  They could even change to smaller, less gas consuming vehicles, or even electric cars.

The point here as related to the topic of renters suffering from lowlife, greedy landlords spiking rents, has nothing to do with the price of barrels of oil.  Just to bring this back to the topic, let's say from whatever circumstance, refineries sold gas to convenience stores at very low prices. And let's say the convenience storeowners were very greedy like the landlords.

And then the convenience storeowners (cartelling among each other) decide to jack up their prices to $500/gallon. Or $100/gallon. Or $50/gallon.  They could that, without any price control law to stop them. So the government could step in and compel them to sell at a reasonable price ($3/gallon).

If the government was a responsible one, doing its job to PROTECT the public, it would do that, and you'd be just as happy about it as everybody else.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> I'm not your student.  I would never submit to education by moron.  In answer to your ignorant question--the last ten months have shown that producers can raise the price on ANYTHING THEY WANT AND HAVE.  Gas is up, food is up, rent is up.  STFU, if you ever had any shit together, you've become senile and lost any touch with reality.  So there is the answer to your question but you will refuse to grasp the logic and reality because you are so senile and jaded.


You get an F for a totally wrong answer.  You mentioned 3 items - gas , food, rent. All 3 are unusual, in that they are things people have to have, and people cant just stop buying completely. 

Just read Post # 414, and think about it. You'll get it eventually, and then on your next exam, you won't flunk again.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> If oil goes up to $200 a barrel, will gasoline prices increase? LOL!


Sorry. We're back *on topic* now. See Post # 414.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> The reason they're not charging double or triple, is the same answer as to the question you ran away from in Post # 381.  Surada got it wrong, but at least he had the guts to post an answer, while your chicken shit posts just deflected.
> 
> The answer is that generally, the firm cannot raise prices above what their market price is because doing so cause their SALES to drop, and income accordingly to less that what it was before that price increase.  That's is why a PRICE is what it is.
> 
> ...



*The reason they're not charging double or triple, is the same answer as to the question you ran away from in Post # 381. *

Post #381 didn't explain why gas station owners aren't charging $12 a gallon.

*The answer is that generally, the firm cannot raise prices above what their market price is because doing so cause their SALES to drop,*

Exactly.

That's why your landlord can raise rents to $900 (or $1090), because they can do 
so without causing their sales to drop.

*And then the convenience storeowners (cartelling among each other) decide to jack up their prices to $500/gallon. Or $100/gallon. Or $50/gallon.  They could that, without any price control law to stop them. *

There is no price control law on gasoline, so why isn't it $50?
If oil tripled in price, should the government mandate that gas prices stay where they are now?
What would happen to the gasoline supply if they did?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Sorry. We're back *on topic* now. See Post # 414.



Sorry if I highlighted your economic ignorance.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

Maybe those who never owned a business (I have), and who think sellers can sell at ANY price they see fit, could use an example to illustrate this.

Quite some years ago, my ex-wife owned a boutique in a mall.  Her costs went up from the minimum wage being raised (4 of her employees got minimum wage for unskilled work).  She did not raise her prices one dime, because she couldn't.

To raise her prices, would have caused her SALES go go down.  Her prices were at "market price" (as high as they could go without triggering sales reductions). She actually started making MORE money after the minimum wage increase, as sales went up from the increase in disposable income in the community.

She also did not lay off any of her 10 employees.  Just like with the prices, she could not make a change. Why do you think she had 10 employees ?  Why 10 ? Why not 9 ? Or 8 ? Or 5 ?  Because she's a philanthropist, and wants to give people jobs ?

The answer is the same as with the prices. It all has to do with what creates the MOST SALE$/INCOME.  To make the maximum income he needed 10 people. Less than that would be less sales. More than that would be excess cost, without benefit.

Both of these scenarios can be graphed with a bell-shaped curve.





With the price scenario, prices go up from the origin, from left to right on the X axis.
 Income goes up on the Y axis, but once it reaches the Market price (top of the bell), it then begins to fall, and it falls more and more with additional increases in price (and resulting decreases in SALES)

With the employee scenario, the # of employees goes up from the origin, from left to right on the X axis. Profit goes up on the Y axis, but once it reaches the optimum # of employees (top of the bell), it then begins to fall, and it falls more and more with additional increases in employees, with excess pay expenditure.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Sorry if I highlighted your economic ignorance.


Read Post 419, and your ignorance will be gone.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *The reason they're not charging double or triple, is the same answer as to the question you ran away from in Post # 381. *
> 
> Post #381 didn't explain why gas station owners aren't charging $12 a gallon.
> 
> ...


No the rental situation is an anomaly. It is caused be an unusual spike in population.

I already told you why gas isn't $50. Slow learner ?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> No the rental situation is an anomaly. it is caused be an unusual spike in population.
> 
> I already told you why gas isn't $50. Slow learner ?



*No the rental situation is an anomaly. it is caused be an unusual spike in population.*

An increase in demand allows higher prices? Weird.

*I already told you why gas isn't $50.*

The price control laws that don't exist?
*
Slow learner ?*

Slow teacher?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 8, 2021)

Class is over for today students. I need to go to my abortion thread.  Liberals sitting there waiting to be thrashed.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Class is over for today students. I need to go to my abortion thread.  Liberals sitting there waiting to be thrashed.



Hope you're not as stupid on that thread.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Read Post 419, and your ignorance will be gone.


See Post #408.  It will explain your ignorance.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> If I did then so did you. because your story is about identical to mine (except I went from California to Florida)


No it isn't because I took responsibility for my life.  I sacrificed so that I am secure now.  You remind me of an old co-worker.  He rented all his life.  I tried to talk him into buying a small condo, but he said renting was cheaper and I was foolish to waste my money.  After I paid off the fifteen year mortgage on my house, he always complained that Insemed to have a lot of money.  After we retired I ran into him and he didn't even have enough money to go out to dinner with me.  He said even with a fixed benefit  and Social Scurity he was barely making ends meet.  He really got angry when I told him he should have bought that condo instead of all the expensive guitars in his collection that he rarely even played.  He will be paying rent until the day he dies just like you.  You made bad decisions all your life and now you want other people to subsidize you.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> The will of millions of renters, to keep rental rates fair, reasonable, affordable, and for AMERICANS (not just rich foreigners).  The will to not be mugged for hundreds of $$$ every month.  Good will.


You get the government to set controlled rents below what the owners consider a proper return, they will simply evict the renters and convert the buildings to condos.  If you get the government to,prevent that, they will simply abandon the properties,  Banks are not going to subsidize people like you, so they will evict everyone and tear down the buildings.  There is no scenario that you win in.  There are just some scenarios where it takes you longer to lose than others.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 8, 2021)

protectionist said:


> The US, all our lives, has been a combination of socialism & capitalism. Are you just refusing to face that fact ?
> 
> PS - most businesses just take it in stride, and roll with it.  Unlike whiney landlords.


No, business that can't make a profit close down.  It happens all the time.  For example, when was the last time you saw an independant book store?  They used to be everywhere.  How about a record or CD store? Again they used to be everywhere.  How about a pay phone? There used to be several on every corner.  How about newsstands?  Again, gone.  Take away their profits and apartments will go away as well.  Then you can live in a government owned apartment and pay whatever some nameless bureaucrat feels is fair.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 9, 2021)

protectionist said:


> So you say I'm a liar, but you PUNK OUT from my challenge, in which I can prove what I say (which you know nothing about).  And isn't that interesting also.  Why would you think I'm lying about an apartment rent going from $550/month to $1,090 in a few years ? You think that is odd ?
> 
> It is what is happening here all over the Tampa Bay area. It is the "rule", not the exception.  You are clueless.
> 
> ...


The government can't make gas cost three bucks a Gallon if it costs more than that to buy, refine and transport UNLESS you want the government to subsidize production costs.  A company will and can not produce a product at a loss.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 9, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> The government can't make gas cost three bucks a Gallon if it costs more than that to buy, refine and transport UNLESS you want the government to subsidize production costs.  A company will and can not produce a product at a loss.


It DOESN'T cost than that to buy, refine and transport, as proven by the fact that we have $3/gallon gas right now - and when Trump left office it was $1.89.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 9, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> No, business that can't make a profit close down.  It happens all the time.  For example, when was the last time you saw an independant book store?  They used to be everywhere.  How about a record or CD store? Again they used to be everywhere.  How about a pay phone? There used to be several on every corner.  How about newsstands?  Again, gone.  Take away their profits and apartments will go away as well.  Then you can live in a government owned apartment and pay whatever some nameless bureaucrat feels is fair.


So you think that $1500/month for a 1 bedroom apartment is needed, for a profit to be made ?   Or even $900/month ?   I don't think you're that stupid. Couldn't be.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 9, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> You get the government to set controlled rents below what the owners consider a proper return, they will simply evict the renters and convert the buildings to condos.  If you get the government to,prevent that, they will simply abandon the properties,  Banks are not going to subsidize people like you, so they will evict everyone and tear down the buildings.  There is no scenario that you win in.  There are just some scenarios where it takes you longer to lose than others.


$1500/month (common now in Tampa) is a RIP-OFF, not a "proper return".. What absurd comments are showing up in this thread.  Jeeez.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 9, 2021)

protectionist said:


> It DOESN'T cost than that to buy, refine and transport, as proven by the fact that we have $3/gallon gas right now - and when Trump left office it was $1.89.



Gas is about $3.50 a gallon in Chicago today.
What happens to the supply if the government said they could only charge $1?


----------



## Mr Natural (Dec 9, 2021)

Why are conservatives so ignorant about supply and demand when it comes to housing costs?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 9, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> No it isn't because I took responsibility for my life.  I sacrificed so that I am secure now.  You remind me of an old co-worker.  He rented all his life.  I tried to talk him into buying a small condo, but he said renting was cheaper and I was foolish to waste my money.  After I paid off the fifteen year mortgage on my house, he always complained that Insemed to have a lot of money.  After we retired I ran into him and he didn't even have enough money to go out to dinner with me.  He said even with a fixed benefit  and Social Scurity he was barely making ends meet.  He really got angry when I told him he should have bought that condo instead of all the expensive guitars in his collection that he rarely even played.  He will be paying rent until the day he dies just like you.  You made bad decisions all your life and now you want other people to subsidize you.


I owned 2 houses, and one condo.  I started a business on $35,and expanded it to 4 branch offices in 3 counties.  I graduated from college with a BA, and went to graduate school, where 25 of us were forced out because of Affirmative Action.

Renting in some ways is better than buying. I've done both. Both have their goods and bads.  With renting, you get more for your money.  My previous complex has 2 swimming pools, jacuzzi, exercise room, tennis courts, basketball court, clubhouse, computer room, walking trails, recreation barbeque area, etc)  You get free maintenance & repairs.  Refrigerator goes bad, they give you a new one.  AC konks out they fix it, or replace it.  

If your friend wants to sell those guitars, I might be interested to buy them. I played in a rock band for 9 years, and I teach the guitar now (also violin & mandolin).


----------



## protectionist (Dec 9, 2021)

Mr Clean said:


> Why are conservatives so ignorant about supply and demand when it comes to housing costs?


You got something to say ?  Doesn't cost anything to say it.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 9, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Gas is about $3.50 a gallon in Chicago today.
> What happens to the supply if the government said they could only charge $1?


I wonder why you keep introducing hypotheticals unrelated to the topic, Mr Supply ?
If the govt said they could only charge $3/gallon and no more, what would happen to the supply is > Nothing.


----------



## Mr Natural (Dec 9, 2021)

protectionist said:


> You got something to say ?  Doesn't cost anything to say it.


OK, now pay attention.

The reason why rent is higher in Tampa is because people want to live there and are willing to pay for the privilege.

I’m sure you could find some place to live in Nowheresville USA if low rent is all you care about.

Of course, like everything else in life, you get what you pay for.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 9, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I wonder why you keep introducing hypotheticals unrelated to the topic, Mr Supply ?
> If the govt said they could only charge $3/gallon and no more, what would happen to the supply is > Nothing.



I'm testing your economics knowledge.

So far......you've got a D-

_If the govt said they could only charge $3/gallon and no more, what would happen to the supply is > Nothing._

And at $1?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 9, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> See Post #408.  It will explain your ignorance.


There have been a lot of really dumb posts in this thread, but your post # 408, is beyond that, and deep into the IDIOTIC level.

1...Rent control in Florida now is not _"robbing from legitimate property owners". _It is he prevention of robbing from legitimate renters, by THIEVING/PREDATORY, lowlife landlords.

2.  Of course there is justification for trying to force a legal property owner to charge a lower price, because the MUCH higher price is an INCREASE of 50-100%, and that is absurd.  In addition, with sudden changes to these MUCH larger increases, that havent been seen before, and are unexpected, millions of people are unprepared to pay such large increases, and you have them being forced out of their HOMES (#1 element of human survival).  This simply is too unfair, too nasty, and too undesirable  a thing for society to accept.

3.  As for the supply & demand aspect, the people _"willing to pay that rent"_ are largely Biden's migrants, being dumped into the Tampa Bay area, for the purpose of adding VOTES for Biden, and turning Florida from a red state into a blue state. So all the support of the predator landlords, is support for that.  Sick.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 9, 2021)

protectionist said:


> millions of people are unprepared to pay such large increases, and you have them being forced out of their HOMES (#1 element of human survival). This simply is too unfair, too nasty, and too undesirable a thing for society to accept.



The first rule of economics.....can't be unfair. DURR


----------



## protectionist (Dec 9, 2021)

Mr Clean said:


> OK, now pay attention.
> 
> The reason why rent is higher in Tampa is because people want to live there and are willing to pay for the privilege.
> 
> ...


If I had not paid attention, I wouldn't have lost anything. Come back when you really have something interesting to say, and when you have a bit more idea of what is being discussed here (see post # 440-3.)

Also, quality if life IS better in Nowheresville USA, in a number of ways. Yes, housing prices are lower. Yes, I could find some place to live there, and right now, I'm in the process of doing just that.  And what I will pay for there (at 1/3 the price) will be far better than what I would be ripped off for here.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 9, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> The first rule of economics.....can't be unfair. DURR


This thread is about fairness and propriety, not economics.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 9, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> I'm testing your economics knowledge.
> 
> So far......you've got a D-
> 
> ...


So far you have an F.  You gave no answer to my question about increased costs being passed on to the consumer.  
Too late to reply now - I've already supplied the answer (including a graph)


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 9, 2021)

protectionist said:


> This thread is about fairness and propriety, not economics.



Obviously.

That explains your economic cluelessness.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 9, 2021)

protectionist said:


> So far you have an F.  You gave no answer to my question about increased costs being passed on to the consumer.
> Too late to reply now - I've already supplied the answer (including a graph)



*You gave no answer to my question about increased costs being passed on to the consumer.*

I did.






Memory loss?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 9, 2021)

protectionist said:


> This thread is about fairness and propriety, not economics.



Now, back to my gas question.

Maybe after your nap?


----------



## Mr Natural (Dec 9, 2021)

protectionist said:


> This thread is about fairness and propriety, not economics.


Yes, in a perfect world landlords would actually give a shit about their tenants ability to pay.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 9, 2021)

protectionist said:


> As for the supply & demand aspect, the people _"willing to pay that rent"_ are largely Biden's migrants,


You are full of excrement.  Where, pray tell, are "Bidens Migrants" getting more money than you have?  hmmmm?  You are as demented as Biden is and just as big as a communist.  Are you sure I am not corresponding with dementia Joe.  Run along now you ignorant fuck.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 9, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I owned 2 houses, and one condo.  I started a business on $35,and expanded it to 4 branch offices in 3 counties.  I graduated from college with a BA, and went to graduate school, where 25 of us were forced out because of Affirmative Action.
> 
> Renting in some ways is better than buying. I've done both. Both have their goods and bads.  With renting, you get more for your money.  My previous complex has 2 swimming pools, jacuzzi, exercise room, tennis courts, basketball court, clubhouse, computer room, walking trails, recreation barbeque area, etc)  You get free maintenance & repairs.  Refrigerator goes bad, they give you a new one.  AC konks out they fix it, or replace it.
> 
> If your friend wants to sell those guitars, I might be interested to buy them. I played in a rock band for 9 years, and I teach the guitar now (also violin & mandolin).


You are a commie LIAR and a legend in your own mind.  Ignorant just the same.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 9, 2021)

protectionist said:


> $1500/month (common now in Tampa) is a RIP-OFF, not a "proper return".. What absurd comments are showing up in this thread.  Jeeez.


Check out rents in Seattle, Portland, SF, LA, and San Diego.  You can't get a cardboard box for 1500/mo.  I think a garage in any one of those places rents for close to $3K you cheap commie fuck.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 9, 2021)

protectionist said:


> $1500/month (common now in Tampa) is a RIP-OFF, not a "proper return".. What absurd comments are showing up in this thread.  Jeeez.


Then move.  You should have bought a home thirty years ago, then you wouldn't be renting.  Stop complaining and do something.  If you feel so strongly, buy an apartment building and rent for what YOU think is fair.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 9, 2021)

Mr Clean said:


> Why are conservatives so ignorant about supply and demand when it comes to housing costs?


This fuckwad is no conservative, he's one of your commie cheapskates that figure the world owes him something because his feelings are hurt.


----------



## fncceo (Dec 9, 2021)

protectionist said:


> $1500/month (common now in Tampa) is a RIP-OFF, not a "proper return"..



The market decides what is fair and proper... an unadulterated market will always seek what is a fair and proper return.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 9, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I owned 2 houses, and one condo.  I started a business on $35,and expanded it to 4 branch offices in 3 counties.  I graduated from college with a BA, and went to graduate school, where 25 of us were forced out because of Affirmative Action.
> 
> Renting in some ways is better than buying. I've done both. Both have their goods and bads.  With renting, you get more for your money.  My previous complex has 2 swimming pools, jacuzzi, exercise room, tennis courts, basketball court, clubhouse, computer room, walking trails, recreation barbeque area, etc)  You get free maintenance & repairs.  Refrigerator goes bad, they give you a new one.  AC konks out they fix it, or replace it.
> 
> If your friend wants to sell those guitars, I might be interested to buy them. I played in a rock band for 9 years, and I teach the guitar now (also violin & mandolin).


Yeah, you're a legend in your own mind.  If you had done a tenth of what you claim, you'd be set now, not complaining about high rents.  When you rent, you get nothing for your money but a place to live.  When you buy, you build equity and have something concrete to show for your money as well.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 9, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> No, business that can't make a profit close down.  It happens all the time.  For example, when was the last time you saw an independant book store?  They used to be everywhere.  How about a record or CD store? Again they used to be everywhere.  How about a pay phone? There used to be several on every corner.  How about newsstands?  Again, gone.  Take away their profits and apartments will go away as well.  Then you can live in a government owned apartment and pay whatever some nameless bureaucrat feels is fair.


We are all being played.  He's had us repeating the same logic for three days straight now and he hasn't awakened yet--He's a fucking troll and not worth another second of my time.  He is a prime example of what the ignore button was designed for.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 9, 2021)

protectionist said:


> This thread is about fairness and propriety, not economics.


Life isn't fair.  Grow up.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 9, 2021)

Mr Clean said:


> Yes, in a perfect world landlords would actually give a shit about their tenants ability to pay.


And tenants would care about their landlords.  I've seen it happen, but it's damned rare.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 9, 2021)

protectionist said:


> This thread is about fairness and propriety, not economics.


This thread is about communism and government hand-outs.  You advocate both.  Read your own thread.  There has not been one, NOT ONE, poster who has agreed with you including a couple of resident left wingers.  YOU ARE WRONG AND YOU HAVE BEEN OFFICIALLY CANCELLED BECAUSE YOU ARE STUPID AS WELL.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 10, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *You gave no answer to my question about increased costs being passed on to the consumer.*
> 
> I did.
> 
> ...


I already TAUGHT you, student.  (Post 419)


----------



## protectionist (Dec 10, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Obviously.
> 
> That explains your economic cluelessness.


That explains your fairness/propriety cluelessness.


----------



## surada (Dec 10, 2021)

protectionist said:


> If I had not paid attention, I wouldn't have lost anything. Come back when you really have something interesting to say, and when you have a bit more idea of what is being discussed here (see post # 440-3.)
> 
> Also, quality if life IS better in Nowheresville USA, in a number of ways. Yes, housing prices are lower. Yes, I could find some place to live there, and right now, I'm in the process of doing just that.  And what I will pay for there (at 1/3 the price) will be far better than what I would be ripped off for here.



What about the Villages in Central Florida?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 10, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Now, back to my gas question.
> 
> Maybe after your nap?


You don't HAVE any gas question - at least not one that is on topic. And you lied about my gas question.  If the price at the pump went to $500/gallon - even much less than that, you would screaming for the govt to force the gas stations to lower their prices. Ho hum.
But not for housing rents, because you apparently have some vested interest, and as such, shouldn't even be in this thread.  Guys like you fuck up a forum like this.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 10, 2021)

Mr Clean said:


> Yes, in a perfect world landlords would actually give a shit about their tenants ability to pay.


And since they don't, and have gone hog wild on rents, we need something to control them, Biden, and the section 8 deals going on (which WE are paying for in our taxes).


----------



## protectionist (Dec 10, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> You are full of excrement.  Where, pray tell, are "Bidens Migrants" getting more money than you have?  hmmmm?  You are as demented as Biden is and just as big as a communist.  Are you sure I am not corresponding with dementia Joe.  Run along now you ignorant fuck.


Fool.  You come in here ignorant, and then post displaying that ignorance. Are you not aware that all along, Biden has been busing and jetting migrants all over the country ?  Are you not aware that he has been paying for motels and apartments for them ?

Are you not aware of the hundreds of section8 set ups he has allowed, in cahoots with landlords, for the migrants (while Americans are still on 2-3 year waiting lists) - and all this "communist" activity, YOU are supporting.  YOU are the communist, in support of the Biden-landlord activity going on, ruining cities, all in the cause of getting Biden re-elected (he thinks).

You are oblivious.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Dec 10, 2021)

The inflation caused by the Gov't is causing the prices to go up.  Locking down the world.  Spending Trillions we don't have and causing supply issues, along with people fleeing BLUE SHITHOLES, and illegals pouring across the border caused the price increases.  It also raised the rates of INSURANCE in Hurricane areas.

Rent control just gives the assholes screwing us MORE POWER.  That is like going to an Arsonist who burned down your house for help.

What is needed IS LESS GOV'T.  Less Regulations on building. and more housing being built to INCREASE THE SUPPLY of housing.   Until that happens prices will be high.

Best you move now before the next round of Trillions from Gov't cause more price increases which is taxation by default.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Dec 10, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Fool.  You come in here ignorant and then post displaying that ignorance. Are you not aware that all long, Biden has been busing and jetting migrants all over the country ?  Are you not aware that he has been paying for motels and apartments for them ?
> 
> Are you not aware of the hundreds of section8 set ups he has allowed, (while liberal landlords take advantage) for the migrants (while Americans are still on 2-3 year waiting lists) - and all this "communist" activity, YOU are supporting.  YOU are the communist, in support of the Biden-landlord cahoots activity going on, ruining cities, all in the cause of getting Biden re-elected (he thinks).
> 
> You are oblivious.


Give Brandon more power?  More Gov't controls?  I dont' think so.  Best thing we could do is return power to the states and fire all the dang Federal Employees and limit their powers.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 10, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> You are a commie LIAR and a legend in your own mind.  Ignorant just the same.


YOU are the commie, supporting Biden's migrant airlifts and migrant dumps.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 10, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Check out rents in Seattle, Portland, SF, LA, and San Diego.  You can't get a cardboard box for 1500/mo.  I think a garage in any one of those places rents for close to $3K you cheap commie fuck.


All the more reason for rent control , which liberals in blue states oppose (as their LAWS prove) because they support Bidens's blueification campaign, and its all covered by Section 8 and HUD.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 10, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> Then move.  You should have bought a home thirty years ago, then you wouldn't be renting.  Stop complaining and do something.  If you feel so strongly, buy an apartment building and rent for what YOU think is fair.


I'll let the landlords do the "MOVE" - ie. moving their rental rates back to normal.

As for buying a home 30 years ago. I didn't. I bought 2 of them. I'm getting ready to buy one again now, How many times have I said this now ?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 10, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> This fuckwad is no conservative, he's one of your commie cheapskates that figure the world owes him something because his feelings are hurt.


Next to me, you look like a cross between AOC & Nancy Pelsoi. (see Post # 366)

Rent control is not "owing something".  It is simply keeping things in order, as opposed to totally out of order, to benefit Biden, foreign migrants, and in-cahoots, leftist landlords like you.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 10, 2021)

fncceo said:


> The market decides what is fair and proper... an unadulterated market will always seek what is a fair and proper return.


The _"market"_ in Florida is dead as a doornail.  It is not a market any more, at all.  It is one of the most corrupt, lowlife, unAmerican, despicable, opportunistic, SCAMS that has ever been imposed on the American people. My previous posts explain, for those who are lost on this issue.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 10, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> Yeah, you're a legend in your own mind.  If you had done a tenth of what you claim, you'd be set now, not complaining about high rents.  When you rent, you get nothing for your money but a place to live.  When you buy, you build equity and have something concrete to show for your money as well.


You must not have done much living in your life.  Life is complicated.  All kinds of things (ex. Affirmative Action, recessions,  etc) enter into the picture over the years, to fuck up goods things that we do.

And so you challenge what I _"claim", _about owning my own business,  Well, I'll make the same bet with you that I made with that other Biden bootlicker.  I'll send information about my 1980s business to the forum to affirm it, When it's shown I'm right, you stay out of USMB for a year. If I'm wrong I'll do that. You game ?  Or do you PUNK OUT like the other guy ?

I already described the differences between renting and buying, and my description was a lot more in depth than your flimsy one.  (see Post 435)


----------



## protectionist (Dec 10, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> We are all being played.  He's had us repeating the same logic for three days straight now and he hasn't awakened yet--He's a fucking troll and not worth another second of my time.  He is a prime example of what the ignore button was designed for.


Try making a case with substance to support it. That would give you validity.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 10, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> Life isn't fair.  Grow up.


That's what YOU should do.  And one of the prime functions of government is to make things *BE *FAIR.  That's what LAWS are all about.  Or maybe you'd just rather not HAVE any government - that's what it looks like.


----------



## fncceo (Dec 10, 2021)

protectionist said:


> And one of the prime functions of government is to make things *BE *FAIR. That's what LAWS are all about.



Let's be fair on landlords who actually have to buy the houses, pay the property taxes, do all the upkeep and -- heaven forbid -- actually make a couple of dollars for their troubles by investing in housing.

Or, we can just stop people from investing in rental properties and renters can go live under a bridge.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 10, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> And tenants would care about their landlords.  I've seen it happen, but it's damned rare.


No reason why anybody should care about predatory, thieving landlords, who don't care about their tenants, or anything at all, other than just $tuffing their pockets.

In their zeal to get richer, they are participating in a phenomemon that is grossly harmful to America.  The migrants they are renting to, are untested for Covid, unvetted, and are illegal aliens, who shouldn't be in the US at all. This is all unfair to immigrants who wait years to be accepted into the US legally.

 Already some of these illegal creeps have been arrested for sex crimes, and admitted to hospitals with Covid, while not even wearing a mask.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 10, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I'll let the landlords do the "MOVE" - ie. moving their rental rates back to normal.
> 
> As for buying a home 30 years ago. I didn't. I bought 2 of them. I'm getting ready to buy one again now, How many times have I said this now ?


You claim that while talking out your ass.  Take the money and buy an apartment building and charge fair rents.  Do what you are demanding others do.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 10, 2021)

protectionist said:


> The _"market"_ in Florida is dead as a doornail.  It is not a market any more, at all.  It is one of the most corrupt, lowlife, unAmerican, despicable, opportunistic, SCAMS that has ever been imposed on the American people. My previous posts explain, for those who are lost on this issue.


The market always works.  If land lords charge more than people can or are willing to pay, no one will rent from them and they will have to lower their rents, otherwise they lose their buildings to the banks.


----------



## fncceo (Dec 10, 2021)

protectionist said:


> As for buying a home 30 years ago. I didn't. I bought 2 of them. I'm getting ready to buy one again now, How many times have I said this now ?



Then why the hell are you renting?


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 10, 2021)

protectionist said:


> You must not have done much living in your life.  Life is complicated.  All kinds of things (ex. Affirmative Action, recessions,  etc) enter into the picture over the years, to fuck up goods things that we do.
> 
> And so you challenge what I _"claim", _about owning my own business,  Well, I'll make the same bet with you that I made with that other Biden bootlicker.  I'll send information about my 1980s business to the forum to affirm it, When it's shown I'm right, you stay out of USMB for a year. If I'm wrong I'll do that. You game ?  Or do you PUNK OUT like the other guy ?
> 
> I already described the differences between renting and buying, and my description was a lot more in depth than your flimsy one.  (see Post 435)


You know what I’ll take you up on that, but I have to be satisfied that what you post is real.  And I will research it and you.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 10, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> This thread is about communism and government hand-outs.  You advocate both.  Read your own thread.  There has not been one, NOT ONE, poster who has agreed with you including a couple of resident left wingers.  YOU ARE WRONG AND YOU HAVE BEEN OFFICIALLY CANCELLED BECAUSE YOU ARE STUPID AS WELL.


FALSE! It is about doing things properly, instead of the insanely, selfish system that Biden has set up, to ensure his re-election. He knows the American people despise him.  He knows he can't win in 2024, based on a legal election from AMERICANS. So he eliminates the Mexican border, and breaks every immigration law you can think of, importing as many foreigners as he can, to get their VOTES (while they know Trump would deport them)

He knows most of them cannot pay for housing, so he sets it up to pay for them (out of YOUR taxes).  You are clueless in this thread. You have NO IDEA what is going on, how you re being played for a sucker, and what could be dumber than being snookered by a dumbass like Biden, but that's exactly what you are.

And your use of the word "handouts" (not related to the issue) merely shows all the more how out of touch with this you are.  It's time for you to get understanding of what's going on. YOU are the one who is in league with the communistic crap that is happening, you're just too foggy headed to figure that out. One of these days you'll receive a check or a medal from Biden and his landlord buddies, for your support.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 10, 2021)

fncceo said:


> Then why the hell are you renting?


Already explained that (post # 435)

In 2022, I may be receiving a HUGE legal settlement (Million$). Then I will buy a luxury house, but I will still rent an apartment also, to take advantage of the long list of amenities + the companionship of fellow renters (including hot, young babes out at the pool)    



			https://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Florida/Tampa/Grand-Reserve-at-Tampa-Palms/13652/


----------



## protectionist (Dec 10, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> You know what I’ll take you up on that, but I have to be satisfied that what you post is real.  And I will research it and you.


OK, So let's be clear. I said >>_ "Actually I made great financial decisions. In the 80s, I started a business on $35 of start up capital, and expanded it to 3 branch offices in 3 counties."_

You said >> "I*f you had done a tenth of what you claim*, you'd be set now, not complaining about high rents."

So you're calling me a liar, right ?  If so, then we have a bet,

And you wont have to research it. The forum administrators will receive copies of business licenses, statements of fictitious business name for 3 counties, and even copies of articles in newspapers about me and my business, with my pictures in those articles, + a picture from a TV show.

Yeah, you make this bet, and you'll be out of here for a YEAR + plus you'll learn a lesson to keep your mouth shut about things you know nothing about.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 10, 2021)

protectionist said:


> OK, So let's be clear. I said >>_ "Actually I made great financial decisions. In the 80s, I started a business on $35 of start up capital, and expanded it to 3 branch offices in 3 counties."_
> 
> You said >> "I*f you had done a tenth of what you claim*, you'd be set now, not complaining about high rents."
> 
> ...


No I have to be satisfied, that means you post the documents where we can view them.  If Im making a bet I will decide if they are real.


----------



## boedicca (Dec 10, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Organize a union of renters. Get some rent control going.
> 
> Capitalism can suck. People were willing to pay more rent than you so they got the apartment.




As someone who lives in the SF Bay Area, I can testify that rent control is the path to Californication.   Landlords stop maintaining properties, some of which then turn into slums.   New development is then focused more on the high income/luxury type condos, with perhaps small bits for low income housing.   

Trying to change the Supply vs. Demand dynamic via regulation always ends up distorting the market - and never benefits the poorer folks who are the supposed beneficiaries.   Politicians, bureaucrats and wealthy real estate investors are the ones at the trough.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 10, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> No I have to be satisfied, that means you post the documents where we can view them.  If Im making a bet I will decide if they are real.


Oh, starting to duck out already huh, Mr DODGE ?  You know damn well for me to post them publicly here, would be a breach of my anonymity (which YOU also post under).  With the things I've posted (including right here in this thread). I could be placing my life in danger, if my identity was revealed.

It's quite obvious what your game is.  You propose a scenario that you know I can't comply with, and then you pretend that I'm the one who's ducking out.  Oh, aren't you clever ?

No.  I think just allowing the administrators to se the documents, and letting them decide, is good and valid enough. I don't have any favoritism with them. I don't even know their names.

Let's just do this. I'll send the documents to the USMB administrators, and they will honor my anonymity by being the judges of it.  (if they will do that)


----------



## protectionist (Dec 10, 2021)

boedicca said:


> As someone who lives in the SF Bay Area, I can testify that rent control is the path to Californication.   Landlords stop maintaining properties, some of which then turn into slums.   New development is then focused more on the high income/luxury type condos, with perhaps small bits for low income housing.
> 
> Trying to change the Supply vs. Demand dynamic via regulation always ends up distorting the market - and never benefits the poorer folks who are the supposed beneficiaries.   Politicians, bureaucrats and wealthy real estate investors are the ones at the trough.


What's going on in Florida housing with Biden & landlords, is not supply & demand. It is scamming, scheming, and downright robbery.


----------



## Mr Natural (Dec 10, 2021)

protectionist said:


> What's going on in Florida housing with Biden & landlords, is not supply & demand.* It is scamming, scheming, and downright robbery.*



Aka capitalism.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 10, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I already TAUGHT you, student.  (Post 419)



Poor professor, running away again.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 10, 2021)

protectionist said:


> That explains your fairness/propriety cluelessness.



Da, comrade! Property is theft!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 10, 2021)

protectionist said:


> You don't HAVE any gas question - at least not one that is on topic. And you lied about my gas question.  If the price at the pump went to $500/gallon - even much less than that, you would screaming for the govt to force the gas stations to lower their prices. Ho hum.
> But not for housing rents, because you apparently have some vested interest, and as such, shouldn't even be in this thread.  Guys like you fuck up a forum like this.



*You don't HAVE any gas question - at least not one that is on topic. *

Sure I do. 
What happens to the supply of gasoline if the government mandates a price of $1 a gallon?

* If the price at the pump went to $500/gallon - even much less than that, you would screaming for the govt to force the gas stations to lower their prices.*

If the price went up to $500 the government couldn't force the price back to $3.

*But not for housing rents, because you apparently have some vested interest, and as such, shouldn't even be in this thread. *

My vested interest is private property and conservatism.
You couldn't pay me enough to be a landlord. Too many whiney a-hole tenants COUGH you Cough

*Guys like you fuck up a forum like this.*

No kidding. Pointing out your idiocy and lies. Fucks you right up.


----------



## boedicca (Dec 10, 2021)

protectionist said:


> What's going on in Florida housing with Biden & landlords, is not supply & demand. It is scamming, scheming, and downright robbery.




No, it's not. Due to the Blue-Dem-Prog-Commie policies in Blue state, people are fleeing to Red States such as Florida.  More people competing relatively for the housing supply drives up prices.  That's how markets work.

And then there is also the aspect that Prog-tard monetary and fiscal policy is causing inflation to explode.  Housing is a good/service and subject to inflationary pressures.  Take a look at the cost of building materials alone.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 10, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Oh, starting to duck out already huh, Mr DODGE ?  You know damn well for me to post them publicly here, would be a breach of my anonymity (which YOU also post under).  With the things I've posted (including right here in this thread). I could be placing my life in danger, if my identity was revealed.
> 
> It's quite obvious what your game is.  You propose a scenario that you know I can't comply with, and then you pretend that I'm the one who's ducking out.  Oh, aren't you clever ?
> 
> ...


Sorry, put up or shut up.  You don’t set the rules of a bet I accept.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 11, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> Sorry, put up or shut up.  You don’t set the rules of a bet I accept.


I DID "put up". You're the one who's punking out. I made this same bet, with these same kinds of terms. with other people, and they had no problem with it. You are full of shit, and you're a coward to boot.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 11, 2021)

Mr Clean said:


> Aka capitalism.


No, it something else, It is a nasty scheme set up between Biden (for VOTES) and landlords (for money).  Ordinary capitalism is generally OK. This isn't.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 11, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Poor professor, running away again.


I'm right here student.  Get your pad & pencil. Take notes.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 11, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Da, comrade! Property is theft!


Sometimes.  Right now in Tampa Bay, yes, definitely.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 11, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I DID "put up". You're the one who's punking out. I made this same bet, with these same kinds of terms. with other people, and they had no problem with it. You are full of shit, and you're a coward to boot.


You’ve been complaing that no one will take your bet. Now that someone has you change your tune and claim you beat them.
Hey everyone, if anyone has lost this bet or any bet with this guy, speak up.  Mods,  if he has really sent you that information, at least acknowledge ie here.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 11, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I DID "put up". You're the one who's punking out. I made this same bet, with these same kinds of terms. with other people, and they had no problem with it. You are full of shit, and you're a coward to boot.


I just reported your post, let’s see if the mods will back you up or if you are lying.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 11, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *You don't HAVE any gas question - at least not one that is on topic. *
> 
> Sure I do.
> What happens to the supply of gasoline if the government mandates a price of $1 a gallon?
> ...


1. No Mr Supply, that is NOT the topic.  That is a little deflection that you are trying to use to DODGE away from the topic, and to DODGE away from revealing your hypocrisy, that you're OK with exorbitant housing prices (when you benefit),  but you're opposed to exorbitant gas pries (when you are victimized)

2, The govt can set gas prices at any prices it wishes to. ANYTIME.  It can also adjust the supply of gasoline in various ways. ANYTIME.

3.  Your vested interest is in private REAL ESTATE property.   It's written all over you.

4.  Doesn't have any effect on me at all. You're the one who's making a hypocritical idiot out of yourself. And is in opposition to what 90% of Americans agree upon.
Ridiculous that their thread should even need to be a debate between me and opponents of rent control (under the current circumstances), with a lot of opponent chiming in. The sheep who silently put up with this highway robbery should be in here nailing you to a cross.

Somebody said there's more posters here against me than with me. HA HA HA.  Come to my apartment complex, and my previous one, and say hello to hundreds of people who agree with me 100%, and only 1 guy (the property manger) who would HALF agree with you.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 11, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> I just reported your post, let’s see if the mods will back you up or if you are lying.


I haven't sent them anything, Not yet. But if you stop punking out, I will.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 11, 2021)

boedicca said:


> No, it's not. Due to the Blue-Dem-Prog-Commie policies in Blue state, people are fleeing to Red States such as Florida.  More people competing relatively for the housing supply drives up prices.  That's how markets work.
> 
> And then there is also the aspect that Prog-tard monetary and fiscal policy is causing inflation to explode.  Housing is a good/service and subject to inflationary pressures.  Take a look at the cost of building materials alone.


Oh BULLSHIT. I don't know where you are, but I am right in in Tampa, and I am seeing with my own eyes what is happening here, right in front of me. You're not telling me anything I don't know.  Sure, some Americans are moving here from other states, but that was happening during the Trump administration, and before that.  Nothing like what's going on now, with Biden's migrant dumps.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 11, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> You’ve been complaing that no one will take your bet. Now that someone has you change your tune and claim you beat them.
> Hey everyone, if anyone has lost this bet or any bet with this guy, speak up.  Mods,  if he has really sent you that information, at least acknowledge ie here.


Sorry dude, I haven't seen anybody take my bet, nor have I made any "claim".   If you are taking it, SAY SO, and I'll contact the administrators, to see if they will act as judge.

In this forum, I bet candy corn (a number of times) about my having served in the military, and she punked out every time.

In this thread, I bet toddsterpatriot, and he punked out.

  In another forum, I bet a guy (PNWest) about the 2020 election, and I lost the bet when Biden became president (sort of).  And I stayed out of the forum (Politicaljack.com) for a month.

I don't need your endorsement for what I do.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 11, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I haven't sent them anything, Not yet. But if you stop punking out, I will.


You claimed to have done it in the past.  They should be able to vouch for that.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I'm right here student.  Get your pad & pencil. Take notes.



Protectionist is a liberal whiner who doesn't understand supply and demand.

OK, what else, professor Durr?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> 1. No Mr Supply, that is NOT the topic.  That is a little deflection that you are trying to use to DODGE away from the topic, and to DODGE away from revealing your hypocrisy, that you're OK with exorbitant housing prices (when you benefit),  but you're opposed to exorbitant gas pries (when you are victimized)
> 
> 2, The govt can set gas prices at any prices it wishes to. ANYTIME.  It can also adjust the supply of gasoline in various ways. ANYTIME.
> 
> ...



* No Mr Supply, that is NOT the topic.*

You obviously don't understand what price controls do to the supply of rental property or gas.

* The govt can set gas prices at any prices it wishes to. ANYTIME.*

That is a super awesome claim! 
And what would happen to supply if they set the price at $1 today?

*It can also adjust the supply of gasoline in various ways. ANYTIME.*

Really? How's that? Post some specifics.

* Your vested interest is in private REAL ESTATE property.   It's written all over you.*

Yeah, I'd prefer twats like you don't steal private property.
As far as rentals, no fucking way. Too much trouble, too many thiefs like you.
Wouldn't touch it with a 20 foot pole.

*Ridiculous that their thread should even need to be a debate between me and opponents of rent control*

Or between me and idiots, but there you are.

*Somebody said there's more posters here against me than with me.*

I know, freedom and capitalism.....I'm for them.

Maybe Cuba is more to your liking? Less of both. You can probably rent a place cheap.

*Come to my apartment complex, and my previous one, and say hello to hundreds of people who agree with me 100%, *

No kidding, who wouldn't like free stuff? You just have to steal it. Typical liberals.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> In this thread, I bet toddsterpatriot, and he punked out.



You want to bet me about something I never claimed. Liar.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 12, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> * No Mr Supply, that is NOT the topic.*
> 
> You obviously don't understand what price controls do to the supply of rental property or gas.
> 
> ...


What he doesn't realize is that if the government sets prices below the level of profitability, the refiners will simply shut down.  The government cant require a business to operate at a loss.  Nixon tried wage and price controls to strangle inflation and it didn't work.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 12, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> What he doesn't realize is that if the government sets prices below the level of profitability, the refiners will simply shut down.  The government cant require a business to operate at a loss.  Nixon tried wage and price controls to strangle inflation and it didn't work.



Yeah, he's clueless.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> My vested interest is private property and conservatism.
> You couldn't pay me enough to be a landlord. Too many whiney a-hole tenants COUGH you Cough


"whiney a-hole tenants," huh ?   No, you're not a landlord. Not much.  Gave yourself away on that one, Mr LANDLORD. (and a nasty one, at that)


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> What he doesn't realize is that if the government sets prices below the level of profitability, the refiners will simply shut down.  The government cant require a business to operate at a loss.  Nixon tried wage and price controls to strangle inflation and it didn't work.


It wouldn't be at a loss. There's no reason to think that. Gas is $3.00/gallon right now.  Do you see any gas stations or oil refineries shutting down ? Why come up with hypotheticals that don't exist ?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Yeah, he's clueless.


No, he's clueless, and you're a liar.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> You claimed to have done it in the past.  They should be able to vouch for that.


I just told you, I did it in ANOTHER FORUM (Politicaljack.com), and the people in this forum punked out, so nothing had to be sent in here.  Got it now, slowpoke ?


----------



## eagle1462010 (Dec 12, 2021)

Prices will continue to rise with the stupidity of our Gov't.  Inflation and higher prices on everything is driving up everything.  Insurance has gone up in Hurricane areas.  That is also part of the equation.  What is needed is massive construction of housing to counter the supply problem.  OR A MASS EVICTION OF ILLEGALS......

Giving the gov't MORE POWER  is the last thing we need.  They are the ones who are fucking this shit up.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Protectionist is a liberal whiner who doesn't understand supply and demand.
> 
> OK, what else, professor Durr?


YOU are the liberal who is in support of Biden's migrant dumps, and the liberal landlords working in tandem with him. 

As for the supply, it is only saturated, because of Biden's migrant dumping (all over the US), and it is just the foreign migrants who are the so-called "demand".  None of this is anything close to normal supply & demand, and YOU KNOW IT.

It is all a scheme by a rogue who highjacked the White House with election fraud, with no intent to do anything but use it to enrich himself, and his family, consistent with what he's done all along, before becoming president.  The migrant airlifts and dumps are to get him VOTES that he knows he cant get from the American people, who see him for the corrupt, conniving scammer that he is.









						How five members of Joe Biden’s family got rich through his connections
					

Political figures have long used their families to route power and benefits for their own self-enrichment. In my new book, “Profiles in Corruption: Abuse of Power by America’s Progressive Elite,” o…




					nypost.com


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> * No Mr Supply, that is NOT the topic.*
> 
> You obviously don't understand what price controls do to the supply of rental property or gas.
> 
> ...


1.  You obviously don't know how govt can control & affect the supply of  rental property or gas.

2.  No need to address your idiotic off topic hypotheicals, designed to support your goofball ideas.

3.  "Really ?" You don't know ?You need to pay attention to what goes on in the government, student. Watch Newsmax, the First, or OAN.  I don't need to post specifics, but I'm in a good mood, so I'll give you a break. The govt can *adjust the supply of gasoline, *by things like what Presidents Trump and Biden have done.  Trump increased the supply. Biden decreased it.  Duh! (as if you didnt know, right ?)


the Biden de facto moratorium on domestic drilling on federal lands
  killing pipelines here in the United States
Amidst Gas Shortage, Biden Proposes Another Drilling Ban › American Greatness
Gavin Newsom fires California official who OKd big increase in fracking


If Texas were a country, it would account for the most new oil and gas production in the world. Between 2020 and 2029, Texas could account for 28 percent of all additional output, Global Witness says.

Canada and Pennsylvania tie for second and third with 7 percent each. Then comes New Mexico at 5 percent of the growth and North Dakota at 4 percent. Oklahoma, Brazil, Colorado, Russia and Ohio are all tied at 3 percent a piece.

In other words, 7 out of the top 10 sources of new oil and gas production globally over the next decade are U.S. states.

“If things don’t change, by the end of the next decade, new oil and gas fields in the US will produce more than twice what Saudi Arabia produces today,” Global Witness said in its report.

This was posted by Stephen Green on Aug 28, *2019*, when Trump was still president, and after almost 3 years of his pro-oil drilling policies.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *I know, freedom and capitalism.....I'm for them.
> 
> Maybe Cuba is more to your liking? Less of both. You can probably rent a place cheap.
> 
> No kidding, who wouldn't like free stuff? You just have to steal it. Typical liberals.*


Post # 516 already shot this dopey post to bits. No need to repeat.

Paying normal rental rates isn't getting _"free stuff".  _And just to answer your question, it's obvious that LANDLORDS like free stuff. Like all the free MONEY they're stealing from renters, with all their current ludicrous rental rates, which you despicably support.


----------



## boedicca (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Oh BULLSHIT. I don't know where you are, but I am right in in Tampa, and I am seeing with my own eyes what is happening here, right in front of me. You're not telling me anything I don't know.  Sure, some Americans are moving here from other states, but that was happening during the Trump administration, and before that.  Nothing like what's going on now, with Biden's migrant dumps.



You are very behind the times.  FL is experiencing very high net migration of actual U.S. citizens (the ones can afford expensive moving company's).





__





						2020 Florida Relocation and Migration Report
					

The State of Florida has been one of the fastest growing states for over a decade.  The lure of beautiful weather, abundant job opportunities and no state




					activerain.com
				




As someone who has lived in SF or Oakland for the past 23 years, I have seen what rent control has done to both of those cities (as well as Berkeley when I was a student).   A major complaint locally is that new housing stock is virtually all built for high income folks.  That is the economic reality of trying to control prices; supply for the lower price points drops...even when you include the grossly high cost to build public housing projects that are the slums of the future. That's A Fact Jack


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> You want to bet me about something I never claimed. Liar.


Whether you claim or don't claim, I proposed a bet. You wouldn't take it. And actually you DID claim. You called me a liar (CLAIMED I was lying), about my rental rate having gone up dramatically. I could easily prove what I said, so my bet offer still stands.  

Thought it was too far back in the thread (Post 388) that I couldn't find it ?

protectionist said:
*1. Raising an apartment rent from $550/month to $900 (now it's gone up to $1,090) is landlord STEALING from the renter.*

Toddsterpatriot said: * Liar.*

Note: since you're the supporter of Biden's leftist, migrant airlifts, and their resulting housing saturation & rent rocketing, your words get posted in blue.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

eagle1462010 said:


> Prices will continue to rise with the stupidity of our Gov't.  Inflation and higher prices on everything is driving up everything.  Insurance has gone up in Hurricane areas.  That is also part of the equation.  What is needed is massive construction of housing to counter the supply problem.  OR A MASS EVICTION OF ILLEGALS......
> 
> Giving the gov't MORE POWER  is the last thing we need.  They are the ones who are fucking this shit up.


Of course you are correct that > more housing is needed, and of course getting rid of the illegals is also needed. But as we know form follows function.  As things stand right now, Biden is in power, and he is saturating cities with illegal aliens (many of whom have big buck$$).  Until Biden and Harris are gone, and the order at the border is restored, we have a disastrous situation/crisis, and I will remind all posters in this thread, that the point of reference in this thread is the RENTERS who are having 50-100% increases in their most expensive, constantly ongoing expense > Housing. The is the PRIMARY TOPIC. And millions of them being forced out into the street, with really nowhere to go.

It is not Biden, his migrant VOTES, the greed freak landlords, or any ideological ideas about government as a problem solver.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Of course you are correct that > more housing is needed, and of course getting rid of the illegals is also needed. But as we know form follows function.  As things stand right now, Biden is in power, and he is saturating cities with illegal aliens (many of whom have big buck$$).  Until Biden and Harris are gone, and the order at the border is restored, we have a disastrous situation/crisis, and I will remind all posters in this thread, that the point of reference in this thread is the RENTERS who are having 50-100% increases in their most expensive, constantly ongoing expense > Housing. The is the PRIMARY TOPIC. And millions of them being forced out into the street, with really nowhere to go.
> 
> It is not Biden, his migrant VOTES, the greed freak landlords, or any ideological ideas about government as a problem solver.


Rent control is more gas on the fire.  Housing went up 50 to 60 % since the covid nonsense.  Insurance close to the same for hurricanes.  Construction materialbis through the roof right now.

Arresting the cow because he saw the fox kill the chicken doesnt work.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

boedicca said:


> You are very behind the times.  FL is experiencing very high net migration of actual U.S. citizens (the ones can afford expensive moving company's).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your post has already been addressed in previous posts.  I'm well aware of US migration. As already stated, US migration has been going on for years, and well before the huge spikes in housing prices that are occuring NOW.  

As for your 23 years in wherever, as stated in previous posts, New York City has had rent control of some degree for 100 years. I grew up in a rent controlled apartment in New York, and I lived in the city with rent control for 30 years. If Tampa now had rent control like New York had, we would not have the crisis chaos we have now.
Landlords would still be making their decent profits as before, and millions of people in Florida et al states, would not be having their lives ruined.


----------



## boedicca (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Your post has already been addressed in previous posts.  I'm well aware of US migration. As already stated, US migration has been going on for years, and well before the huge spikes in housing prices that are occuring NOW.
> 
> As for your 23 years in wherever, as stated in previous posts, New York City has had rent control of some degree for 100 years. I grew up in a rent controlled apartment in New York, and I lived in the city with rent control for 30 years. If Tampa now had rent control like New York had, we would not have the crisis chaos we have now.
> Landlords would still be making their decent profits as before, and millions of people in Florida et al states, would not be having their lives ruined.



Sorry Not Sorry, but I am not going to read every post you make before commenting.

Citing NYC is pretty amusing.  Is is an utter shithole now.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

eagle1462010 said:


> Rent control is more gas on the fire.  Housing went up 50 to 60 % since the covid nonsense.  Insurance close to the same for hurricanes.  Construction materialbis through the roof right now.
> 
> Arresting the cow because he saw the fox kill the chicken doesnt work.


NO!  Rent control puts out the fire.  At least until we can get rid of Biden and his illegal aliens. The "fire" is millions of people sent out into the street with no place to live.  Landlords can con is all they want about construction materials, oh yeah this & that, the reality is Biden is pumping millions of people into US cites, and greedy landlords are going hog wild.

Cow, fox, chicken analogy makes no sense.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

boedicca said:


> Sorry Not Sorry, but I am not going to read every post you make before commenting.
> 
> Citing NYC is pretty amusing.  Is is an utter shithole now.


Sure it is, but that is because of liberal idiots - has nothing to do with rent control, which is neither a liberal or conservative thing. It is just a (possibly temporary) bandage, to address an extreme condition.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> NO!  Rent control puts out the fire.  At least until we can get rid of Biden and his illegal aliens. The "fire" is millions of people sent out into the street with no place to live.  Landlords can con is all they want about construction materials, oh yeah this & that, the reality is Biden is pumping millions of people into US cites, and greedy landlords are going hog wild.


Wrong.  It only makes it worse.  Then builders will say fuck building there just like California.

Our dollar is dying.  You gotta adapt or be crushed later.  Sucks but it is the truth
Ill never agree to giving the assholes who did this more power


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

eagle1462010 said:


> Wrong.  It only makes it worse.  Then builders will say fuck building there just like California.
> 
> Our dollar is dying.  You gotta adapt or be crushed later.  Sucks but it is the truth
> Ill never agree to giving the assholes who did this more power


No they won't, and the proof of it is that builders were building before Biden came along, before the migrants dumps, and everything would simply restore back to that.

And you aren't giving power to the "assholes who did this" you would giving* power to the people *(the ones/renters who are being screwed by Biden, the illegals, and the landlords)


----------



## dblack (Dec 12, 2021)

MOAR FREE SHIT!!!


----------



## eagle1462010 (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> No they won't, and the proof of it is that builders were building before Biden came along, before the migrants dumps, and everything would simply restore back to that.
> 
> And you aren't giving power to the "assholes who did this" you would giving* power to the people *(the ones/renters who are being screwed by Biden, the illegals, and the landlords)


Baloney  the plannedemic did that.  Started before brandon on housing costs.  Top it off supply shortages Its hard to get materials at work now.  I also know my insurance went up as well.

Our politicians brought inflation and owners sre passing it fotward.

Get your own place soon.  Its gonna get worse.  You have been warned and i gave you info to help.  Its now on you


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> "whiney a-hole tenants," huh ?   No, you're not a landlord. Not much.  Gave yourself away on that one, Mr LANDLORD. (and a nasty one, at that)



Yes, whiney a-hole tenants. Did I hit a little too close to home?

* No, you're not a landlord.*

Nope. Not now, not ever, never.

*Gave yourself away on that one, Mr LANDLORD. *

Durr. Now spread some more of your economic wisdom, professor. LOL!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Gas is $3.00/gallon right now. Do you see any gas stations or oil refineries shutting down ?



What would they do if the government set the price of gas at $1?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> YOU are the liberal who is in support of Biden's migrant dumps, and the liberal landlords working in tandem with him.
> 
> As for the supply, it is only saturated, because of Biden's migrant dumping (all over the US), and it is just the foreign migrants who are the so-called "demand".  None of this is anything close to normal supply & demand, and YOU KNOW IT.
> 
> ...



*YOU are the liberal** who is in support of Biden's migrant dumps, and the liberal landlords working in tandem with him.*

Liar. I want to boot 30 million illegal aliens, to start.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> 1.  You obviously don't know how govt can control & affect the supply of  rental property or gas.
> 
> 2.  No need to address your idiotic off topic hypotheicals, designed to support your goofball ideas.
> 
> ...


*
1. You obviously don't know how govt can control & affect the supply of rental property or gas.

2. No need to address your idiotic off topic hypotheicals, designed to support your goofball ideas.*

Run away, again, professor. 

*3.  "Really ?" You don't know ?*

Really? You're going to run away instead of proving your claim? LOL! Weak.

* I don't need to post specifics,*

Because you can't.
*
The govt can adjust the supply of gasoline, by things like what Presidents Trump and Biden have done.  Trump increased the supply. *

Did Trump increase the supply by fixing the price? DURR


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Whether you claim or don't claim, I proposed a bet. You wouldn't take it. And actually you DID claim. You called me a liar (CLAIMED I was lying), about my rental rate having gone up dramatically. I could easily prove what I said, so my bet offer still stands.
> 
> Thought it was too far back in the thread (Post 388) that I couldn't find it ?
> 
> ...



*You called me a liar (CLAIMED I was lying)*

Because you are.

*about my rental rate having gone up dramatically.*

That wasn't one of your lies, as far as I know.

*landlord STEALING from the renter.

Toddsterpatriot said: Liar.*

Yup. That was one of your lies.

*Note: since you're the supporter of Biden's leftist, migrant airlifts, and their resulting housing saturation & rent rocketing,*

And some more of your lies.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Dec 12, 2021)

Saying you are the Landlord because you rent is like saying you are a part owner of a McDonalds because you bought a Cheeseburger there.


----------



## Concerned American (Dec 12, 2021)

boedicca said:


> You are very behind the times.  FL is experiencing very high net migration of actual U.S. citizens (the ones can afford expensive moving company's).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I watched the SF market for 90 miles away in the central valley for 50 years.   Our area became bedroom communities for the bay area.  People were commuting 90 miles each way and they were still able to increase housing prices in the valley to the point that they were difficult to afford for people living on the valley economy.  Glad I got out of that liberal tax and spend state.


----------



## 22lcidw (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> NO!  Rent control puts out the fire.  At least until we can get rid of Biden and his illegal aliens. The "fire" is millions of people sent out into the street with no place to live.  Landlords can con is all they want about construction materials, oh yeah this & that, the reality is Biden is pumping millions of people into US cites, and greedy landlords are going hog wild.
> 
> Cow, fox, chicken analogy makes no sense.


You are correct. A roof over the head and food in the belly removed makes people angry. Real angry.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> It wouldn't be at a loss. There's no reason to think that. Gas is $3.00/gallon right now.  Do you see any gas stations or oil refineries shutting down ? Why come up with hypotheticals that don't exist ?


You’re a moron.  If the government attempts to force fuel sales at a loss, gas stations will just stop selling. I’m actually shifting my opinion from you being incredibly stupid, to being mentally ill.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I just told you, I did it in ANOTHER FORUM (Politicaljack.com), and the people in this forum punked out, so nothing had to be sent in here.  Got it now, slowpoke ?


Yeah, right.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I just told you, I did it in ANOTHER FORUM (Politicaljack.com), and the people in this forum punked out, so nothing had to be sent in here.  Got it now, slowpoke ?


Well the mods still haven’t gotten back to me, so I very much doubt they’d go out of their way for you.  Put up or shut up.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Your post has already been addressed in previous posts.  I'm well aware of US migration. As already stated, US migration has been going on for years, and well before the huge spikes in housing prices that are occuring NOW.
> 
> As for your 23 years in wherever, as stated in previous posts, New York City has had rent control of some degree for 100 years. I grew up in a rent controlled apartment in New York, and I lived in the city with rent control for 30 years. If Tampa now had rent control like New York had, we would not have the crisis chaos we have now.
> Landlords would still be making their decent profits as before, and millions of people in Florida et al states, would not be having their lives ruined.


And take a look at those rent controlled neighborhoods, they are ghettos full of tenements rotting away from lack of maintenance.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *YOU are the liberal** who is in support of Biden's migrant dumps, and the liberal landlords working in tandem with him.*
> 
> Liar. I want to boot 30 million illegal aliens, to start.


Oh, but if that happened, than there wouldn't be a housing shortage, and we'd still be paying $500-$600/month, instead of $850-1,090. Not good for you and your greed right, trashbag ?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *1. You obviously don't know how govt can control & affect the supply of rental property or gas.
> 
> 2. No need to address your idiotic off topic hypotheicals, designed to support your goofball ideas.*
> 
> ...


Ha ha. I already posted the specifics, and proved it dummy. Can't you read ? (the links I posted in Post # 517)

Here's your lamebrain posts in blue and mine in red >>

*The govt can set gas prices at any prices it wishes to. ANYTIME.*

That is a super awesome claim!
And what would happen to supply if they set the price at $1 today?

*It can also adjust the supply of gasoline in various ways. ANYTIME.*

Really? How's that? Post some specifics.

So you forgot the specifics already ?  Short memory.


the Biden de facto moratorium on domestic drilling on federal lands
killing pipelines here in the United States
Amidst Gas Shortage, Biden Proposes Another Drilling Ban › American Greatness
Gavin Newsom fires California official who OKd big increase in fracking


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Oh, but if that happened, than there wouldn't be a housing shortage, and we'd still be paying $500-$600/month, instead of $850-1,090.



$500-$600 would be better.
30 million fewer illegal aliens and fewer whiney libs like you to listen to.......win-win!


----------



## katsteve2012 (Dec 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> You actually are paying the maintenance, repairs, and property tax anyway, in your rent.
> While a mortgage is rough at first, it stays the same, while rents always go up.
> After just a few years, mortgage payments are always less than rents.
> Plus you get tax right off for things like property tax, that renters are not allowed.


Correct. Mortgage interest as well.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Ha ha. I already proved it dummy. Can't you read ? (the links I posted)



You proved your idiocy.

*The govt can adjust the supply of gasoline,*

Hilarious!


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *You called me a liar (CLAIMED I was lying)*
> 
> Because you are.
> 
> ...


None of that was lies.  You called me a Liar immediately after I said _"_*my rental rate having gone up dramatically."  *So your liar claim had to be related to that. Now you're lying by saying it wasn't.

And yes, the landlords are stealing from the renters. taking $250-$500 a month from us.  Much worse than any street mugger.  And you support it, you stinking trashbag.

And you support Biden's airlifts, and their resulting housing saturation & rent rocketing. You've been saying it all through this thread. Biden bootlicker.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

eagle1462010 said:


> Saying you are the Landlord because you rent is like saying you are a part owner of a McDonalds because you bought a Cheeseburger there.


Who are you talking to here, and what are you talking about ?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> I watched the SF market for 90 miles away in the central valley for 50 years.   Our area became bedroom communities for the bay area.  People were commuting 90 miles each way and they were still able to increase housing prices in the valley to the point that they were difficult to afford for people living on the valley economy.  Glad I got out of that liberal tax and spend state.


So if you oppose all that so much, then why do you support approximately the same thing here in Florida ?


----------



## eagle1462010 (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Who are you talking to here, and what are you talking about ?


When you earlier said you were a landlord.  

As I've stated.  You gotta move and get your own place and that is the recomendation for the others there.  This will get worse.  They are purposely destroying the dollar through massive spending.  They will RESET THE SYSTEM SOON.  PROTECT YOURSELF.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> You’re a moron.  If the government attempts to force fuel sales at a loss, gas stations will just stop selling. I’m actually shifting my opinion from you being incredibly stupid, to being mentally ill.


You must be the "moron" when you come right back, saying the same thing that was just refuted in the very post you quoted.

AGAIN >> It wouldn't be at a loss. There's no reason to think that. Gas is $3.00/gallon right now. Do you see any gas stations or oil refineries shutting down ? 

Some people need to be told twice.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Ha ha. I already posted the specifics, and proved it dummy. Can't you read ? (the links I posted in Post # 517)
> 
> Here's your lamebrain posts in blue and mine in red >>
> 
> ...



Thanks for the links.

They don't help any of your claims, but they did make me chuckle.

*The govt can set gas prices at any prices it wishes to. ANYTIME.*

That is a super awesome claim!
And what would happen to supply if they set the price at $1 today, professor?

*It can also adjust the supply of gasoline in various ways. ANYTIME.*

Really? How's that? Post some specifics, professor.

Unless you forgot the specifics already? Short memory? Alzheimer's? DURR.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> So if you oppose all that so much, then why do you support approximately the same thing here in Florida ?


California regulated themselves and taxes themselves into housing costs from hell.  $2000 for a freaking 1 bedroom.  So everyone is LEAVING.  It's either that or live on the streets.  As they leave and the flood of immigrants come, along with inflation and supply problems our COSTS have EXPLODED in Red States.  I never thought I'd see the prices for housing where I'm at.  

The Plannedemic has screwed us ROYALLY.  BUY NOW or you will be priced out.   Giving power to the assholes who are doing this is NOT THE RIGHT PATH.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> None of that was lies.  You called me a Liar immediately after I said _"_*my rental rate having gone up dramatically."  *So your liar claim had to be related to that. Now you're lying by saying it wasn't.
> 
> And yes, the landlords are stealing from the renters. taking $250-$500 a month from us.  Much worse than any street mugger.  And you support it, you stinking trashbag.
> 
> And you support Biden's airlifts, and their resulting housing saturation & rent rocketing. You've been saying it all through this thread. Biden bootlicker.



*You called me a Liar immediately after I said *_"_*my rental rate having gone up dramatically." *

I called you a liar because you said a rent hike was theft. Liar.

*And yes, the landlords are stealing from the renters. taking $250-$500 a month from us.*

Higher prices aren't theft. Liar.

*And you support Biden's airlifts, and their resulting housing saturation & rent rocketing.*

Biden is the worst. We need to seal the border, today. Illegal aliens need to be deported, today.

*Biden bootlicker.*

Lying liberal twat.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

eagle1462010 said:


> When you earlier said you were a landlord.
> 
> As I've stated.  You gotta move and get your own place and that is the recomendation for the others there.  This will get worse.  They are purposely destroying the dollar through massive spending.  They will RESET THE SYSTEM SOON.  PROTECT YOURSELF.


I didn't say I was a landlord because I rent, I said I rent out parking spaces to renters of those spaces, so yeah, that makes me their landlord for that.

I appreciate your advice, which is good, and I am (slowly) in the process of moving, but I'm going to need more money to do that, so I'm working on a few things to bolster my income. Next year I plan to buy a house and get out of this rental vulnerability.

We older folks have one major flaw. We tend to be too trusting, that things will be nice and proper.  We didn't forsee these rental sharks coming around, and gouging us like they're doing.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> AGAIN >> It wouldn't be at a loss. There's no reason to think that. Gas is $3.00/gallon right now. Do you see any gas stations or oil refineries shutting down ?



If the government, today, mandated $1 gasoline, would gas stations or oil refineries shut down?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

eagle1462010 said:


> California regulated themselves and taxes themselves into housing costs from hell.  $2000 for a freaking 1 bedroom.  So everyone is LEAVING.  It's either that or live on the streets.  As they leave and the flood of immigrants come, along with inflation and supply problems our COSTS have EXPLODED in Red States.  I never thought I'd see the prices for housing where I'm at.
> 
> The Plannedemic has screwed us ROYALLY.  BUY NOW or you will be priced out.   Giving power to the assholes who are doing this is NOT THE RIGHT PATH.


Amen, brother.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> Yeah, right.


it's about time you figured it out.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I didn't say I was a landlord because I rent, I said I rent out parking spaces to renters of those spaces, so yeah, that makes me their landlord for that.


Then I misunderstood that post.


protectionist said:


> I appreciate your advice, which is good, and I am (slowly) in the process of moving, but I'm going to need more money to do that, so I'm working on a few things to bolster my income. Next year I plan to buy a house and get out of this rental vulnerability.


The sooner the better.  It will be harder later.


protectionist said:


> We older folks have one major flaw. We tend to be too trusting, that things will be nice and proper. We didn't forsee these rental sharks coming around, and gouging us like they're doing.


All of there costs have gone up because of the gov't and inflation.  Not to mention the Hurricanes and increases in costs.  They are passing those costs on to the consumer.  Way it has always worked.

That doesn't make them a shark.  They have no obligation to eat the increased costs of owning those rental units.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> If the government, today, mandated $1 gasoline, would gas stations or oil refineries shut down?


1.)  




2.)


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

eagle1462010 said:


> Then I misunderstood that post.
> 
> The sooner the better.  It will be harder later.
> 
> ...


I think your not seeing what's happening here in Florida. It's not exactly the same as California. Read my posts about Biden and the housing saturation.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I think your not seeing what's happening here in Florida. It's not exactly the same as California. Read my posts about Biden and the housing saturation.


I see my costs going up as a homeowner.  I also have daughters who rent and helped one look for housing not long ago.  The costs are through the roof here in Alabama.  Hurricane insurance went up as well.

At work.......construction our costs are much higher and we are having trouble getting material to do the jobs.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *You called me a Liar immediately after I said *_"_*my rental rate having gone up dramatically." *
> 
> I called you a liar because you said a rent hike was theft. Liar.
> 
> ...


You heard what I said. I stick by it.

Well, at least you've got the right idea about illegal aliens. We do agree on that.

Higher prices on non-necessities are one thing. Higher prices on CRITICAL necessities (housing) is a whole nother ball game - especially when the "higher" is $250-$500 a month more out of our pockets. To impose this on low-income, elderly people (some who are physically unable to move, money or not) is unconscionable, immoral, despicable.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

eagle1462010 said:


> I see my costs going up as a homeowner.  I also have daughters who rent and helped one look for housing not long ago.  The costs are through the roof here in Alabama.  Hurricane insurance went up as well.
> 
> At work.......construction our costs are much higher and we are having trouble getting material to do the jobs.


A lot of bad things are happening.  I knew the country was going to come apart when I saw Biden slither into the White House.  Sure enough.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> Well the mods still haven’t gotten back to me, so I very much doubt they’d go out of their way for you.  Put up or shut up.


You cant read.  I'm the one who's doing the putting up, while you are just yammering about the mods.  Stop blabbering. * You want to make the bet, or don't you ? *


----------



## protectionist (Dec 12, 2021)

In case anybody isn't fully aware of the full extent of the harms we get from Biden's illegal alien importation program, here's a list >> (housing isn't the only disaster)

See my Post # 51.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> 1.)  View attachment 575127
> 
> 2.)   View attachment 575128



Pussy.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> You heard what I said. I stick by it.
> 
> Well, at least you've got the right idea about illegal aliens. We do agree on that.
> 
> Higher prices on non-necessities are one thing. Higher prices on CRITICAL necessities (housing) is a whole nother ball game - especially when the "higher" is $250-$500 a month more out of our pockets. To impose this on low-income, elderly people (some who are physically unable to move, money or not) is unconscionable, immoral, despicable.



*You heard what I said. I stick by it.*

Yes, you've been sticking by your lies. And your idiocy.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> You must be the "moron" when you come right back, saying the same thing that was just refuted in the very post you quoted.
> 
> AGAIN >> It wouldn't be at a loss. There's no reason to think that. Gas is $3.00/gallon right now. Do you see any gas stations or oil refineries shutting down ?
> 
> Some people need to be told twice.


You haven’t refuted anything.  Gas prices are set according to costs.  Keep the cost the same and force the seller to cut the price by two thirds and the gas station will lose two bucks on each gallon.  No money to replace the gas in the tanks, no money for power to run the pumps and lights, and no money for attendants.  The gas station has to close as soon as it empties the tanks.  Look up the breakdown of gas prices sometime.  The government gets far more than the refiner or gas station.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 12, 2021)

protectionist said:


> You cant read.  I'm the one who's doing the putting up, while you are just yammering about the mods.  Stop blabbering. * You want to make the bet, or don't you ? *


I already agreed, you just have to post the documents so I can verify them.  For obvious reasons, I don’t trust you as far as I could throw a Home Depot.  The mods still haven’t gotten back to me about you.  No answer is an answer, so they aren’t going to get involved.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 15, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Pussy.


Post on topic and you won't be scolded.  Calling names only makes you look even more stupid.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 15, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *You heard what I said. I stick by it.*
> 
> Yes, you've been sticking by your lies. And your idiocy.


Neither lies nor idiocy.  You're spinning your wheels.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 15, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> You haven’t refuted anything.  Gas prices are set according to costs.  Keep the cost the same and force the seller to cut the price by two thirds and the gas station will lose two bucks on each gallon.  No money to replace the gas in the tanks, no money for power to run the pumps and lights, and no money for attendants.  The gas station has to close as soon as it empties the tanks.  Look up the breakdown of gas prices sometime.  The government gets far more than the refiner or gas station.


Yes , I refuted you, and now here again >> You're NOT cutting a price by 2/3.  By having $3/gallon gas, that is retaining the CURRENT PRICE.

So all the dreadful things you described don't exist.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 15, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> I already agreed, you just have to post the documents so I can verify them.  For obvious reasons, I don’t trust you as far as I could throw a Home Depot.  The mods still haven’t gotten back to me about you.  No answer is an answer, so they aren’t going to get involved.


I haven't seen where you agreed. Where/When was that ?

AGREED means you allow the mods to judge the bet.  You refuse to do that, so you have NOT AGREED to the bet I proposed. You're just another chickenshit, like all the rest of them, except you pretend to be a better, by proposing your own conditions that you know I can't accept.

And you can't pretend to have your phony "post the documents" scenario to be valid, since you yourself, are an anonymous poster too.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 15, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Post on topic and you won't be scolded.  Calling names only makes you look even more stupid.



Don't run away and I won't remind people that you're a pussy.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 15, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Don't run away and I won't remind people that you're a pussy.


I still here right now - haven't ran away to anywhere. I'm not obligated to post every day. Unlike some people in this forum, I have another life outside of USMB, and am VERY busy with many things to do, like starting a new job, and trying to get moved out of my increased rent apartment, when the places to move to are few.
 (and posting in other threads in this forum).

But I WILL "remind people" that you're a hypocrite.   How about having $250 taken out of your pocket every month, with nothing given to you in return ?  You're OK with that ? No need to answer.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 15, 2021)

protectionist said:


> How about having $250 taken out of your pocket every month, with nothing given to you in return ?



Sounds like the market. Pussy.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 15, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Sounds like the market. Pussy.


Sounds like $250 every month, out of your pocket. Call it whatever you want. $250 out of your pocket every month - you get nothing in return.  You're OK with it ?

Since you won't answer, I'll answer it for you. Hell NO, you're NOT OK with it. Hypocrite.
Phony.  Scammer. Jerk.


----------



## debbiedowner (Dec 15, 2021)

protectionist said:


> VA realty co, says VA does not do home loans on foreclosures.


That's not necessarily true. You, didn't research this.









						Using Your VA Home Loans to Buy Foreclosed Homes
					

VA home loans can be used to buy foreclosed properties, but understanding the requirements and approval processes can be tricky.




					www.military.com


----------



## protectionist (Dec 15, 2021)

debbiedowner said:


> That's not necessarily true. You, didn't research this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It IS true. Note the word "co" (ie. company) That particular company doesnt do VA home loans on foreclosures (so they say).


----------



## debbiedowner (Dec 15, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Oh, but if that happened, than there wouldn't be a housing shortage, and we'd still be paying $500-$600/month, instead of $850-1,090. Not good for you and your greed right, trashbag ?


There has been a GD housing shortage in Florida for a few years. In the panhandle we have not had an illegal dump and rents have skyrocketed in the past 3 years.


----------



## debbiedowner (Dec 15, 2021)

protectionist said:


> It IS true. Note the word "co" (ie. company) That particular company doesnt do VA home loans on foreclosures (so they say).


I did note the company but there are other's who do.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 15, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Sounds like $250 every month, out of your pocket. Call it whatever you want. $250 out of your pocket every month - you get nothing in return.  You're OK with it ?
> 
> Since you won't answer, I'll answer it for you. Hell NO, you're NOT OK with it. Hypocrite.
> Phony.  Scammer. Jerk.


*
Sounds like $250 every month, out of your pocket. *

Sure does. When rents go up, you pay more to rent.

*$250 out of your pocket every month - you get nothing in return. *

I thought you were getting a place to live? Don't like the price, fucking move already.
All this whining is unseemly for a supposed conservative.

*You're OK with it ?*

Yes.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 15, 2021)

debbiedowner said:


> There has been a GD housing shortage in Florida for a few years. In the panhandle we have not had an illegal dump and rents have skyrocketed in the past 3 years.


Sure, it's been a continuous influx of people for 3 years.  In May 2019, my rent went from $550/mo to $900 instantly. That tiny 450 sq ft apartment now is $1090/mo, but there has been illegal alien dumping here in Tampa Bay, and it has exacerbated the situation immensely.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 15, 2021)

debbiedowner said:


> I did note the company but there are other's who do.


That's helpful to know. >That we aren't constricted.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 15, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *You're OK with it ?*
> 
> Yes.


No, you're not. Not if it's YOU're pocket.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 15, 2021)

protectionist said:


> No, you're not. Not if it's YOU're pocket.



You're such a whiney bitch.


----------



## badger2 (Dec 16, 2021)

If property is theft, boycotting the rent pimp is the best control of both the pimp's property and charging the scapegoat for the use of space. We suggest capitalist boycott rather than marxist, socialist, or communist boycott.


----------



## badger2 (Dec 16, 2021)

boedicca said:


> No, it's not. Due to the Blue-Dem-Prog-Commie policies in Blue state, people are fleeing to Red States such as Florida.  More people competing relatively for the housing supply drives up prices.  That's how markets work.
> 
> And then there is also the aspect that Prog-tard monetary and fiscal policy is causing inflation to explode.  Housing is a good/service and subject to inflationary pressures.  Take a look at the cost of building materials alone.


Intelligent people should only deal with materials that are already their own, otherwise the materials that are not yours will go to define the (space [italics]) inside the structure that you will be paying to inhabit, while the Pimp's materials (appreciate [italics]) in value.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 18, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> You're such a whiney bitch.


You're the one who's whining - about rent control.  Can't steal from old, low-income people, huh ?  Oh, poor baby.


----------



## debbiedowner (Dec 18, 2021)

The republican led legislature along with desantis are going to help you.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 18, 2021)

protectionist said:


> You're the one who's whining - about rent control.  Can't steal from old, low-income people, huh ?  Oh, poor baby.



I'm sorry that your cumulative failures have put you in the position where you can't pay your rent.


----------



## Rigby5 (Dec 18, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *Sounds like $250 every month, out of your pocket. *
> 
> Sure does. When rents go up, you pay more to rent.
> 
> ...



Landlords get huge tax breaks that renters do not get, so it is very unfair.
Everyone should have their own home.
There is not a single person who would not be saving money in only a few years, if they had been able to buy instead of rent, and it usually is the lack of a a credit rating that prevents them from getting the mortgage they deserve.
Everyone one should be eligible for a mortgage and be able to buy.
And instead of tax breaks, landlords should pay more in taxes than owners.


----------



## Rigby5 (Dec 18, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> I'm sorry that your cumulative failures have put you in the position where you can't pay your rent.



I am a landlord, and I can tell you the current system is totally crooked.
I have a good credit rating, so do not have to put anything down when I buy.
So then basically the tenants are buying houses for ME.
And while they get no tax break, as the land lord, I get all the tax breaks, like on repairs, improvements, mortgage interest, depreciation, etc.
It is totally wrong and crooked.
Tenants should be given tax exemptions on their cost of doing business, their rent and food.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 18, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Landlords get huge tax breaks that renters do not get, so it is very unfair.
> Everyone should have their own home.
> There is not a single person who would not be saving money in only a few years, if they had been able to buy instead of rent, and it usually is the lack of a a credit rating that prevents them from getting the mortgage they deserve.
> Everyone one should be eligible for a mortgage and be able to buy.
> And instead of tax breaks, landlords should pay more in taxes than owners.



*Landlords get huge tax breaks that renters do not get, so it is very unfair.*

So become a landlord.

*Everyone should have their own home.*

Meh.

*it usually is the lack of a a credit rating that prevents them from getting the mortgage they deserve.*

For some, not getting a mortgage is what they deserve.

*Everyone one should be eligible for a mortgage and be able to buy.*

Nah.

*And instead of tax breaks, landlords should pay more in taxes than owners.*

How much? Why?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 18, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> I am a landlord, and I can tell you the current system is totally crooked.
> I have a good credit rating, so do not have to put anything down when I buy.
> So then basically the tenants are buying houses for ME.
> And while they get no tax break, as the land lord, I get all the tax breaks, like on repairs, improvements, mortgage interest, depreciation, etc.
> ...



*I have a good credit rating, so do not have to put anything down when I buy.
So then basically the tenants are buying houses for ME.*

That's awesome!!!

So what?

*And while they get no tax break, as the land lord, I get all the tax breaks, like on repairs, improvements, mortgage interest, depreciation, etc.*

That's weird. Because you're doing the repairs and improvements.
You're paying the mortgage interest and your property is depreciating.

*Tenants should be given tax exemptions on their cost of doing business, their rent and food.*

You should tell your representatives. Why don't you pass your unfair exemptions onto your tenants?


----------



## Rigby5 (Dec 18, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *I have a good credit rating, so do not have to put anything down when I buy.
> So then basically the tenants are buying houses for ME.*
> 
> That's awesome!!!
> ...



No, I do nothing.
The tenants pay for everything as well as a good extra profit for me.

The representatives know this already, because it is they who rigged the tax system in favor of the wealthy elite.


----------



## Rigby5 (Dec 18, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *And instead of tax breaks, landlords should pay more in taxes than owners.*
> 
> How much? Why?



Landlords make huge profits without doing anything or paying much of anything in taxes.
The tax breaks are so lucrative that people were buying properties just so they could turn them into rentals, and then sell the tax exemptions to uninvolved invests.  They finally made that illegal about 10 years ago, but it used to be common.  The landlord tax breaks are that good.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 18, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> The tenants pay for everything as well as a good extra profit for me.



How much?


----------



## Rigby5 (Dec 18, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> How much?



I do not want to get into too much detail.
But at first, for a year or so, rent tends to be slightly less than mortgage.
If not for the high tax bracket I am in, and the tax write off, it would be a loss for a few years.
However after the 15 year mortgage is paid off, then it is all profit except for property tax.
I actually do all my own repairs, updates, etc.

So the point is tenants are a cash cow being milked by all the landlords.
It is not a fair or equitable system, and the tax laws in particular are horrific.
Their claim is that the tax breaks are supposed to be an incentive for builders to create housing, but that is never the case.
What happens instead is that the breaks are so good for landlords, they can outbid those who would like to live in their own home, so the tax laws work against home ownership.
Without the crooked IRA regulations, then properties would be selling for about 30% less, so more people could buy their own home.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 18, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> I do not want to get into too much detail.
> But at first, for a year or so, rent tends to be slightly less than mortgage.
> If not for the high tax bracket I am in, and the tax write off, it would be a loss for a few years.
> However after the 15 year mortgage is paid off, then it is all profit except for property tax.
> ...



*So the point is tenants are a cash cow being milked by all the landlords.
It is not a fair or equitable system, and the tax laws in particular are horrific.*

That's horrible!!!

If your profits are unfair at $1000 a month, no one is stopping you from charging $800 or $600.
If your write-offs for repairs are unfair, no one is forcing you to declare them.

*Their claim is that the tax breaks are supposed to be an incentive for builders to create housing, but that is never the case.*

So no one creates housing? Ever?

*What happens instead is that the breaks are so good for landlords, they can outbid those who would like to live in their own home, so the tax laws work against home ownership.*

Their higher bids don't result in new housing? Or do you see your contradictory claims?


----------



## Rigby5 (Dec 18, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *Their claim is that the tax breaks are supposed to be an incentive for builders to create housing, but that is never the case.*
> 
> So no one creates housing? Ever?
> 
> ...



Landlord tax breaks do not at all result in new housing.
Landlord profits are maximized by the lowest prices, slum properties that have been foreclosed, neglected, or old.
The people who buy new housing are the same as those who buy new cars, people who want to show off.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 18, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Landlord tax breaks do not at all result in new housing.
> Landlord profits are maximized by the lowest prices, slum properties that have been foreclosed, neglected, or old.
> The people who buy new housing are the same as those who buy new cars, people who want to show off.



*Landlord tax breaks do not at all result in new housing.*

You just said they're placing higher bids.....higher bids, more demand = more supply.

*Landlord profits are maximized by the lowest prices, slum properties that have been foreclosed, neglected, or old.*

You said they were paying higher prices. Are you confused?

*The people who buy new housing are the same as those who buy new cars, people who want to show off.*

No one buys new construction to rent? Are you sure?

If your profits are unfair at $1000 a month, no one is stopping you from charging $800 or $600.
If your write-offs for repairs are unfair, no one is forcing you to declare them.


----------



## Rigby5 (Dec 18, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *Landlord tax breaks do not at all result in new housing.*
> 
> You just said they're placing higher bids.....higher bids, more demand = more supply.
> 
> ...



Wrong.
The landlords are only outbidding the very poor.
That does not = more supply because they are not buying new or paying new prices.
You still seem to miss the point that it is the poor the landlords are abusing.

Yes, no one would ever buy new construction to rent unless it is high capacity apartments that cost less per unit, but are impossible for individuals to buy because it would require a collective mechanism that does not exist

I currently am charging only about 75% of what I could, but that does nothing to fix the problem of slum lords getting tax breaks they do not deserve.
When the wealthy get tax breaks, then everyone else has to pay more.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 18, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> The landlords are only outbidding the very poor.
> That does not = more supply because they are not buying new or paying new prices.
> You still seem to miss the point that it is the poor the landlords are abusing.
> ...


*
That does not = more supply because they are not buying new or paying new prices.*

I've read several recent stories where they're buying new construction.

*You still seem to miss the point that it is the poor the landlords are abusing.*

There are regulations to prevent "abuse".

*Yes, no one would ever buy new construction to rent unless it is high capacity apartments that cost less per unit*

You're wrong.

*I currently am charging only about 75% of what I could*

And you're still making unreasonable profits?

*When the wealthy get tax breaks, then everyone else has to pay more.*

That's terrible, so why don't you pay more?


----------



## Rigby5 (Dec 18, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *That does not = more supply because they are not buying new or paying new prices.*
> 
> I've read several recent stories where they're buying new construction.
> 
> ...



Housing has a real shortage these days.
They can't find people to build them anymore.
But it is not landlords who are financing the construction from what I have heard.

And the whole point is that there are not regulations to prevent landlords from abusing the poor.
The whole point is the tax laws are manipulated by the wealthy, in order to increase the abuse of the poor.

I am still making about 90% profits because the properties are entirely paid off.
All I have to do is pay property tax and do some painting and plumbing once in a while.

If I paid more taxes, that would not fix anything about the rich landlords not paying their fair share and abusing tenants.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 18, 2021)

debbiedowner said:


> View attachment 577076
> The republican led legislature along with desantis are going to help you.


That would be good, but we need PAST tense help, not future.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 18, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Landlords make huge profits without doing anything or paying much of anything in taxes.
> The tax breaks are so lucrative that people were buying properties just so they could turn them into rentals, and then sell the tax exemptions to uninvolved invests.  They finally made that illegal about 10 years ago, but it used to be common.  The landlord tax breaks are that good.


SOME (many) landlords should be given a new name > landsharks.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 18, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Landlords get huge tax breaks that renters do not get, so it is very unfair.
> Everyone should have their own home.
> There is not a single person who would not be saving money in only a few years, if they had been able to buy instead of rent, and it usually is the lack of a a credit rating that prevents them from getting the mortgage they deserve.
> Everyone one should be eligible for a mortgage and be able to buy.
> And instead of tax breaks, landlords should pay more in taxes than owners.


Credit ratings as applied to housing rental is assinine.  Landlords are some of the biggest dummies when it comes to business.   There are millions of people who have low credit scores (a term that's only been around a relatively short time), but they have PERFECT HOUSING rental records.  

I got preapprovd for a home loan with credit scores in the mid 600s, and I have NEVER missed or been late on a housing rental payment in over half a CENTURY.
Credit scores have very little (if anything to do with housing). They measure payment for jewelry, cars, sporting goods, musical instruments, and things that frankly are none of the landlords' business.

If I were renting apartments, I would check a person's HOUSING RENTAL RECORD and criminal record, and that's all.  Going any further than that is turning away good-paying customers, and needlessly losing money.

When I owned a business for 10+ years, I gave credit to over 600 people. The total number who didn't make good on their note, was ONE.  99.83% success rate, and I never checked a single credit rating.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 18, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *That does not = more supply because they are not buying new or paying new prices.*
> 
> I've read several recent stories where they're buying new construction.
> 
> ...


FALSE!  The worst abuse is raising rents (SUDDENLY) to ludicrous amounts. The apt I rented 2 years ago at $550/mo, immediately was raised to $900/mo. Now it is $1,150/mo.  109% increase, and nothing given to the renter in return. That is despicable ABUSE, and there not only is no "regulation" (rent control), there are laws (in 45 states) that regulate against the stoppage of this abuse, thereby ensuring it to occur.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 18, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Housing has a real shortage these days.
> They can't find people to build them anymore.
> But it is not landlords who are financing the construction from what I have heard.
> 
> ...


Toddsterpatriot has been trying to tell us that the astronomical housing rents in Florida right now, are due to increased costs to the "poor" landlords.  We all know it is a surplus of renters, a dearth of housing units, and landlord greed.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 18, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Housing has a real shortage these days.
> They can't find people to build them anymore.
> But it is not landlords who are financing the construction from what I have heard.
> 
> ...



*I am still making about 90% profits because the properties are entirely paid off.
All I have to do is pay property tax and do some painting and plumbing once in a while.*

90%? Wow!
You don't understand accounting either.

*If I paid more taxes, that would not fix anything about the rich landlords not paying their fair share *

It would. It would fix you, not paying your fair share.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 19, 2021)

protectionist said:


> FALSE!  The worst abuse is raising rents (SUDDENLY) to ludicrous amounts. The apt I rented 2 years ago at $550/mo, immediately was raised to $900/mo. Now it is $1,150/mo.  109% increase, and nothing given to the renter in return. That is despicable ABUSE, and there not only is no "regulation" (rent control), there are laws (in 45 states) that regulate against the stoppage of this abuse, thereby ensuring it to occur.


*
FALSE! The worst abuse is raising rents (SUDDENLY) to ludicrous amounts. The apt I rented 2 years ago at $550/mo, immediately was raised to $900/mo. Now it is $1,150/mo. 109% increase,*

That's awful!! And all you have to do to escape the abuse is move. 

*That is despicable ABUSE*

You're such a little whiner.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 19, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Toddsterpatriot has been trying to tell us that the astronomical housing rents in Florida right now, are due to increased costs to the "poor" landlords.  We all know it is a surplus of renters, a dearth of housing units, and landlord greed.



*Toddsterpatriot has been trying to tell us that the astronomical housing rents in Florida right now, are due to increased costs to the "poor" landlords.*

I did? Where?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 19, 2021)

protectionist said:


> We all know it is a surplus of renters, a dearth of housing units



Supply and demand? If only you knew an Econ professor to explain to you how that works......


----------



## protectionist (Dec 19, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Supply and demand? If only you knew an Econ professor to explain to you how that works......


HA HA. You and your "supply & demand" (completely overlooking the NEEDS of the public).

Look at this JOKE >>
 2 GRAND a month these loons are asking, for a 733 sq foot 1 bedroom, shoebox.  Anybody that would pay 2 grand for a 733 sq foot shoebox, is an imbecile.
Hey Rocky Creek, how many bugs come with the apartment ?
How many alligators you got in your stupid lake ?
No bathroom windows & cental AC ? That = MOLD.









						Tampa FL Apartments | Rocky Creek Apartments | Floor Plans
					

The 1, 2, and 3-bedroom floor plans in our Tampa, FL apartments offer storage and space. Contact Rocky Creek Apartment Homes for availability or a tour today.




					www.liveatrockycreekapts.com


----------



## protectionist (Dec 19, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *Toddsterpatriot has been trying to tell us that the astronomical housing rents in Florida right now, are due to increased costs to the "poor" landlords.*
> 
> I did? Where?


Oh, in about a HUNDRED or so posts.

Is there a doctor in the house ?  I mean really.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 19, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *FALSE! The worst abuse is raising rents (SUDDENLY) to ludicrous amounts. The apt I rented 2 years ago at $550/mo, immediately was raised to $900/mo. Now it is $1,150/mo. 109% increase,*
> 
> That's awful!! And all you have to do to escape the abuse is move.
> 
> ...


Move WHERE ?  

Buy a house ?  OK.  I'll go with your suggestion. Send me a check for $3000.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 19, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> I do not want to get into too much detail.
> But at first, for a year or so, rent tends to be slightly less than mortgage.
> If not for the high tax bracket I am in, and the tax write off, it would be a loss for a few years.
> However after the 15 year mortgage is paid off, then it is all profit except for property tax.
> ...


Well if you think your rents are unfair, there is a simple solution.  Lower your rents.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 19, 2021)

protectionist said:


> HA HA. You and your "supply & demand" (completely overlooking the NEEDS of the public).
> 
> Look at this JOKE >>
> 2 GRAND a month these loons are asking, for a 733 sq foot 1 bedroom, shoebox.  Anybody that would pay 2 grand for a 733 sq foot shoebox, is an imbecile.
> ...



*You and your "supply & demand" (completely overlooking the NEEDS of the public).*

Yeah, trying to short circuit supply and demand always turns out well for the public. DURR

* 2 GRAND a month these loons are asking, for a 733 sq foot 1 bedroom, shoebox.  *

That's easy, don't buy it.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 19, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Oh, in about a HUNDRED or so posts.
> 
> Is there a doctor in the house ?  I mean really.



You're full of shit. Really.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 19, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Move WHERE ?
> 
> Buy a house ?  OK.  I'll go with your suggestion. Send me a check for $3000.



*Move WHERE ?*

Somewhere cheaper. Moron.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 19, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *You and your "supply & demand" (completely overlooking the NEEDS of the public).*
> 
> Yeah, trying to short circuit supply and demand always turns out well for the public. DURR
> 
> ...


OF COURSE it turns out well for the public. To not short circuit supply and demand in the current situation of housing RENTS GONE WILD, is to have millions of people going HOMELESS, while the few housing units that are available, are going to rich foreigners that Joe Biden is allowing to stream across the Mexican border, unvetted, undocumented, unvaccinated.  Gee what a wonderful situation.

"Don't buy it" you say. Obviously, you are clueless on all of this. I sense we are approaching a sickening time when US housing will be occupied by rich foreigners, and the great bulk of America's poor and middle class will be homeless.  We are partially there already.

Many elderly people where I live are moving out, and moving in with their kids or grandkids (the ones who have kids/grandkids). This however is no decent solution.  Although these older folks will have a roof over their head (at least temporarily), they still are HOMELESS.  When you are living in someone else's home, that is not YOUR HOME. You are without a home of YOUR OWN. You're homeless.

This is the worst dereliction of duty I have ever seen by the local, state, and US government.  Really makes me consider moving to another country.

The US nd state governments have already abandoned the American entrepreneur, business owner, and workers.  Now are abandoning America's renters.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 19, 2021)

protectionist said:


> OF COURSE it turns out well for the public. To not short circuit supply and demand in the current situation of housing RENTS GONE WILD is to have millions of people going HOMELESS, while the few housing units that are available are going to rich foreigners that Jie Biden is allowing to stream across the Mexican border, unvetted, undocumented, unvaccinated.  Gee what a wonderful situation.
> 
> "Don't buy it" you say. Obviously, you are clueless on all of this. I sense we are approaching a sickening time when US hosing will be occupied by rich foreigners, and the great bulk of America's poor and middle class will be homeless.
> 
> The US government has already abandoned the American entrepreneur, business owner, and workers.  Now it is abandoning America's renters.



*OF COURSE it turns out well for the public. *

Dumbest Econ teacher ever. Did they fire you because you're stupid?

*RENTS GONE WILD is to have millions of people going HOMELESS,*

Landlords aren't going to boost rents so high that units stay empty.

*"Don't buy it" you say. Obviously, you are clueless on all of this. *

That's the market. Come to an agreement on price or no trade occurs.

Let's examine your "short circuit to benefit the public".

The government decides $1 gas would be better for the public than $3 gas.

What happens next......unless you running away like a little girl is what happens next?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 19, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *Move WHERE ?*
> 
> Somewhere cheaper. Moron.


Yeah ? And where is that, genius ?  (that would be economical to get to)


----------



## protectionist (Dec 19, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> You're full of shit. Really.


The posts are there for all to see.  You're not only full of shit, you're also an idiot, and a cold, creepy scumbag.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 19, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Yeah ? And where is that, genius ?  (that would be economical to get to)



I don't give a shit where you move. Hopefully somewhere that you stop whining.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 19, 2021)

protectionist said:


> The posts are there for all to see.  You're not only full of shit, you're also an idiot, and a cold, creepy scumbag.



You can't find a single one where I said that.

That's okay, you'll be fine. Cry it out.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 19, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *OF COURSE it turns out well for the public. *
> 
> Dumbest Econ teacher ever. Did they fire you because you're stupid?
> 
> ...


FOOL. What I'm talking is NOT ECONOMICS. It is what the USA is supposed to be. A place where things are set up for the benefit of the American people, not a few rich greed freak screwballs. Get it ?

Take your "market" and shove it.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 19, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *OF COURSE it turns out well for the public. *
> 
> Dumbest Econ teacher ever. Did they fire you because you're stupid?
> 
> ...


NO! we don't have to examine your silly hypothesis, because it is not related to the topic of this thread.  Nobody is talking about rents being below what they were.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 19, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> I don't give a shit where you move. Hopefully somewhere that you stop whining.


YOU are the whiner all through this thread - about rent control.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 19, 2021)

protectionist said:


> FOOL. What I'm talking is NOT ECONOMICS. It is what the USA is supposed to be. A place where things are set up for the benefit of the American people, not a few rich greed freak screwballs. Get it ?
> 
> Take your "market" and shove it.



*What I'm talking is NOT ECONOMICS.*

That's for damn sure.

*It is what the USA is supposed to be. A place where things are set up for the benefit of the American people,*

And if you have to steal to do that......that's what you'll do.

*Take your "market" and shove it.*

Da, tovarisch.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 19, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> You can't find a single one where I said that.
> 
> That's okay, you'll be fine. Cry it out.


LIE


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 19, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Nobody is talking about rents being below what they were.



I'm talking about the government fixing prices below the market.
About the bad things that happen when they do.
An Econ teacher would understand that.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 19, 2021)

protectionist said:


> YOU are the whiner all through this thread - about rent control.



Waah.....my rent went from $550 to $900, that's unfair. The government needs to save me.

Pretty sure that was your whine.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 19, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *What I'm talking is NOT ECONOMICS.*
> 
> That's for damn sure.
> 
> ...


YES, it is for damn sure. Are you starting to get the picture, now ?  That what this thread is about is not your perception of economics. (as you appear to think everything should have to adjust to)

The point of reference in how things should be done in America should always be what is good for the AMERICAN people, not a few greedy landlords, or thousands of rich foreigners, coming here to escape Sharia law or whatever.


----------



## bodecea (Dec 19, 2021)

protectionist said:


> OF COURSE it turns out well for the public. To not short circuit supply and demand in the current situation of housing RENTS GONE WILD, is to have millions of people going HOMELESS, while the few housing units that are available, are going to rich foreigners that Joe Biden is allowing to stream across the Mexican border, unvetted, undocumented, unvaccinated.  Gee what a wonderful situation.
> 
> "Don't buy it" you say. Obviously, you are clueless on all of this. I sense we are approaching a sickening time when US housing will be occupied by rich foreigners, and the great bulk of America's poor and middle class will be homeless.  We are partially there already.
> 
> ...


"rich foreigners"....


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 19, 2021)

protectionist said:


> LIE



All you need to do is find a single post for proof. LOL!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 19, 2021)

protectionist said:


> That what this thread is about is not your perception of economics.



It's about your misperception. And your feelz.


----------



## bodecea (Dec 19, 2021)

Funny how the Right wants the government to step in when THEY have problems with capitalism.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 19, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *What I'm talking is NOT ECONOMICS.*
> 
> That's for damn sure.
> 
> ...


Keeping things normal, instead of RENTS GONE WILD, is not stealing.  The RENT GONE WILD is the stealing.  Stop stealing, thief.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 19, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> It's about your misperception. And your feelz.


No, it is about my reporting of the facts, with you polluting the thread, by refusing to accept them, by injecting your personal brand of lunatic fringe.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 19, 2021)

protectionist said:


> No, it is about my reporting of the facts, with you polluting the thread, by refusing to accept them, by injecting your personal brand of lunatic fringe.



Exactly! Against destructive government overreach....I must be a lunatic!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 19, 2021)

bodecea said:


> Funny how the Right wants the government to step in when THEY have problems with capitalism.



He's not the Right, just another whiney liberal.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 19, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> I'm talking about the government fixing prices below the market.
> About the bad things that happen when they do.
> An Econ teacher would understand that.


FUCK the market.  There IS NO market, you idiot.  Whatever sensible market there ever was is obliterated, and what is left is 700 sq ft 1 bedroom apartments for $2,000/month, with the overwhelming % of the population unable to access them.  Get it ?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 19, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> He's not the Right, just another whiney liberal.


I already showed my right politics, which next to them, you come off looking like Nancy Pelosi. Mr Joe Biden ass kisser.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 19, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Exactly! Against destructive government overreach....I must be a lunatic!


OMG.  Stopping shoebox apartments to rent for $2000/month, you call " government overreach".  Wow!  You are indeed a lunatic.  You are SICK.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 19, 2021)

bodecea said:


> Funny how the Right wants the government to step in when THEY have problems with capitalism.


The right is in favor of "the government" to step in on MANY different ways (ex.  ICE, state & local police activities, the military, stopping CRT, banning Affiramtive Action discrimination, etc)

PS - the left is also guilty of neglect on skyrocketing rents, and support runaway capitalism.  Most blue states ban rent control.


----------



## Mr Natural (Dec 19, 2021)

How’s this for a compromise:

The local government imposes rent control and allows the landlord a credit for the difference.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 19, 2021)

Mr Clean said:


> How’s this for a compromise:
> 
> The local government imposes rent control and allows the landlord a credit for the difference.


Why should the landlord get a "credit" (at taxpayers' expense) for a $2000/month rent on a 700 sq ft shoebox ?  He probably ought to be getting a jail cell.

Making a compromise is an assumption that these lunatic rents have a shred of validity. They don't.


----------



## dblack (Dec 19, 2021)

Government should be the principal supplier of all our wants and needs.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 19, 2021)

dblack said:


> Government should be the principal supplier of all our wants and needs.


That's going too far.  The Government should be our PROTECTIONIST.


----------



## dblack (Dec 19, 2021)

protectionist said:


> That's going too far.  The Government should be our PROTECTIONIST.


Is. Ok. SO government should the principal supplier of only your wants and needs?


----------



## Rigby5 (Dec 19, 2021)

Mr Clean said:


> How’s this for a compromise:
> 
> The local government imposes rent control and allows the landlord a credit for the difference.



No, the problem is the landlords have a monopoly that has to be broken up.
The best way is for government to subsidize the construction of new housing, with controlled rents or sale prices.
As long as people are prevented from living in parks, under bridges, etc., then we have to ensure another alternative.


----------



## Rigby5 (Dec 19, 2021)

dblack said:


> Government should be the principal supplier of all our wants and needs.



Only if the market fails.
Otherwise, it is better to keep government bureaucracy to a minimum.


----------



## Rigby5 (Dec 19, 2021)

dblack said:


> Is. Ok. SO government should the principal supplier of only your wants and needs?



Wrong.
Government has to watch out for and provide fair competition to unfair monopolies.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 19, 2021)

protectionist said:


> FUCK the market.  There IS NO market, you idiot.  Whatever sensible market there ever was is obliterated, and what is left is 700 sq ft 1 bedroom apartments for $2,000/month, with the overwhelming % of the population unable to access them.  Get it ?


*
FUCK the market.*

Da, comrade!!

*Whatever sensible market there ever was is obliterated, and what is left is 700 sq ft 1 bedroom apartments for $2,000/month, with the overwhelming % of the population unable to access them. *

You should whine some more.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 19, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Stopping shoebox apartments to rent for $2000/month, you call " government overreach".



Yes, I do.

You silly leftard.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 19, 2021)

dblack said:


> Government should be the principal supplier of all our wants and needs.



That would make protectionist happy.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 19, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> No, the problem is the landlords have a monopoly that has to be broken up.
> The best way is for government to subsidize the construction of new housing, with controlled rents or sale prices.
> As long as people are prevented from living in parks, under bridges, etc., then we have to ensure another alternative.



*No, the problem is the landlords have a monopoly that has to be broken up.*

Monopoly? How many landlords make up the monopoly? Over a million? Over 5 million?

*The best way is for government to subsidize the construction of new housing, with controlled rents or sale prices.*

What would that do? Increase the number of monopoly landlords?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 19, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Only if the market fails.
> Otherwise, it is better to keep government bureaucracy to a minimum.



Maybe we should add free rent to the Geneva Convention?

We could put it after your imaginary section on trade sanctions.


----------



## dblack (Dec 19, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> Government has to watch out for and provide fair competition to unfair monopolies.


Fair, according to you?


----------



## dblack (Dec 19, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Only if the market fails.
> Otherwise, it is better to keep government bureaucracy to a minimum.


Forgive me, but I've read enough of your posts to know better. Near as I can tell, you think government should pretty much be running everything.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 19, 2021)

dblack said:


> Forgive me, but I've read enough of your posts to know better. Near as I can tell, you think government should pretty much be running everything.



At the same time, he thinks our government should be overthrown.


----------



## dblack (Dec 19, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> At the same time, he thinks our government should be overthrown.


The way I hear it, the socialist/statist's logic goes like this: government is colluding with business, therefore we need to grant government more power to collude with business.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 19, 2021)

dblack said:


> The way I hear it, the socialist/statist's logic goes like this: government is colluding with business, therefore we need to grant government more power to collude with business.



No one could accuse them of being intelligent.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Dec 19, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> I don't give a shit where you move. Hopefully somewhere that you stop whining.





Toddsterpatriot said:


> I don't give a shit where you move. Hopefully somewhere that you stop whining.


Hopefully somewhere without Internet access.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 20, 2021)

dblack said:


> Is. Ok. SO government should the principal supplier of only your wants and needs?


Of ALL AMERICANS


----------



## protectionist (Dec 20, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> No, the problem is the landlords have a monopoly that has to be broken up.
> The best way is for government to subsidize the construction of new housing, with controlled rents or sale prices.
> As long as people are prevented from living in parks, under bridges, etc., then we have to ensure another alternative.


Of course. It's mind boggling how anybody could disagree with that.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 20, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Only if the market fails.
> Otherwise, it is better to keep government bureaucracy to a minimum.


Right you are again, and in Florida we have the classic case of market failure.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 20, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Yes, I do.
> 
> You silly leftard.


Yes, you do. That's because you are a greed freak, vested interest landlord, who doesn't belong in this thread.  You are neither left or right. You are lunatic.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 20, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> That would make protectionist happy.


No, dummy, and if you had read the thread, you would see that I ready disagreed with him.  But then honesty hasn't been your forte in here.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 20, 2021)

dblack said:


> The way I hear it, the socialist/statist's logic goes like this: government is colluding with business, therefore we need to grant government more power to collude with business.


The way I hear it, the greed freak's logic goes like this:  let us do ANYTHING we want, regardless of the negative impact on millions of people.


----------



## dblack (Dec 20, 2021)

protectionist said:


> The way I hear it, the greed freak's logic goes like this:  let us do ANYTHING we want, regardless of the negative impact on millions of people.


 So.... free shit?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 20, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *No, the problem is the landlords have a monopoly that has to be broken up.*
> 
> Monopoly? How many landlords make up the monopoly? Over a million? Over 5 million?
> 
> ...


1.  The number is enough of them to consolidate all rents of a particular region into one unaffordable level, abandoning the American poor & middle class.

2.  What it would do is keep rents at levels that most people can pay, and prevent people from going homeless.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 20, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Maybe we should add free rent to the Geneva Convention?
> 
> We could put it after your imaginary section on trade sanctions.


Exaggerating only makes you look silly, and reduces your credibility.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 20, 2021)

dblack said:


> Fair, according to you?


And the overwhelming majority of Americans.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 20, 2021)

dblack said:


> So.... free shit?


That has NOTHING to do with what I said. You have an exaggeration defect too. Your credibility is eroding. I said nothing about anything being free.   Paying $600 or $700/mo, rather than $1-5,000/mo isnt having something "free".


----------



## protectionist (Dec 20, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> He's not the Right, just another whiney liberal.


Forgetting so soon ? Maybe you need to be told again >>

I am one of the MOST Conservative posters this forum has ever had >>

1. I'm for mass deportation of all illegal aliens, and imprisonment of sanctuary city/state public officials.
2. Islam is banned in America by the Supremacy Clause. Therefore, all mosques should be shut down. All Korans eliminated.
3. Affirmative Action should be banned nationwide, and whites should be paid reparations$$, for 57 years of racial discrimination victimization.
4. CCW should be the law nationwide.
5. Gun free zones should be abolished.
6. Teachers should be trained and armed.
7. Police shootings that sparked riots, were mostly justified homicide.
8. Military equipment for police is a good idea.
9. Police budgets should be increased.
10. Homosexuals are sex pervert lunatics.
11. Tran sexual men should not be permitted to compete in women sports. And stop referring to them as she and her.
12. Gay "pride" is a coverup for gay shame (what is there to be proud of ?)
13. The 2020 election was stolen by massive fraud. Trump is the true POTUS.
14. The SCOTUS should uphold the Mississippi 15 week abortion law. Roe vs Wade should die.
15. Trump had the most extensive list of positive accomplishments of any president in US history.

I've posted 45,000 posts in this forum for 8 years. I am well known here as a staunch conservative, and solid Trump supporter. When you mischaracterize, all you do is shatter your credibility (if you ever had any).  And lots of liberals oppose rent control, with most blue states having laws against it.  You don't know what you're talking about.


----------



## surada (Dec 20, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Yes, you do. That's because you are a greed freak, vested interest landlord, who doesn't belong in this thread.  You are neither left or right. You are lunatic.



Do you want to penalize the landlords or the banks and mortage holders to keep your rent low? Who should pay?


----------



## surada (Dec 20, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Forgetting so soon ? Maybe you need to be told again >>
> 
> I am one of the MOST Conservative posters this forum has ever had >>
> 
> ...




What is the "supremecy clause" and why are we going to eliminate freedom of religion?

Why do white people deserve reparations?

You don't sound conservative, just stupid.


----------



## Mr Natural (Dec 20, 2021)

surada said:


> You don't sound conservative, just stupid.


Is there a difference?


----------



## dblack (Dec 20, 2021)

protectionist said:


> And the overwhelming majority of Americans.


Overwhelming, like a mob?


----------



## dblack (Dec 20, 2021)

protectionist said:


> That has NOTHING to do with what I said. You have an exaggeration defect too. Your credibility is eroding. I said nothing about anything being free.   Paying $600 or $700/mo, rather than $1-5,000/mo isnt having something "free".


Ahh.. so, just _some_ free shit. Is there any maximum to the amount of free shit you want? Any limits at all on your desire for government to take care of you?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 20, 2021)

protectionist said:


> 1.  The number is enough of them to consolidate all rents of a particular region into one unaffordable level, abandoning the American poor & middle class.
> 
> 2.  What it would do is keep rents at levels that most people can pay, and prevent people from going homeless.



*1. The number is enough of them to consolidate all rents of a particular region into one unaffordable level, abandoning the American poor & middle class.*

So it's a big number? A really big number?

*2.  What it would do is keep rents at levels that most people can pay, and prevent people from going homeless.*

Yes, restricting supply and increasing demand has always worked out so well every time it's been tried. You probably had hundreds of such success stories in your econ textbooks.

Imagine how much better the economy would do, especially for people like you, if the government restricted the supply and increased the demand for food and fuel. It'd be awesome!!!

I think it worked out very well recently in Venezuela.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 20, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Forgetting so soon ? Maybe you need to be told again >>
> 
> I am one of the MOST Conservative posters this forum has ever had >>
> 
> ...



You're very convincing, right up to the point where you want to government to steal 
from your landlord on your behalf.


----------



## surada (Dec 20, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> You're very convincing, right up to the point where you want to government to steal
> from your landlord on your behalf.



That's it .. That's the bottom line.


----------



## Mr Natural (Dec 20, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I am one of the MOST Conservative posters this forum has ever had >>



When it suits your needs.


----------



## surada (Dec 20, 2021)

Mr Clean said:


> When it suits your needs.



Bears repeating.

"You're very convincing, right up to the point where you want to government to steal
from your landlord on your behalf."


----------



## bodecea (Dec 20, 2021)

Mr Clean said:


> When it suits your needs.


Pretty much....


----------



## dblack (Dec 20, 2021)

Mr Clean said:


> When it suits your needs.


The discussion just highlights how useless the "left/right", "liberal/conservative" labels are. The op is a thoroughgoing reactionary statist - the polar opposite of a free market libertarian. Yet both camps are classified as "conservative".


----------



## protectionist (Dec 20, 2021)

surada said:


> Do you want to penalize the landlords or the banks and mortage holders to keep your rent low? Who should pay?


NOBODY. One cannot pay what they have never rightfully had.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 20, 2021)

surada said:


> What is the "supremecy clause" and why are we going to eliminate freedom of religion?
> 
> Why do white people deserve reparations?
> 
> You don't sound conservative, just stupid.


The Supremacy Clause is Article 6 Section 2 of the Constitution, declaring the Constitution and the laws of the US to be the supreme law of the land, thereby defining Islam as an illegal entity in America.

We are not eliminating freedom of religion, except for some liberals who think we must go against our religion, as in people being forced to provide wedding cakes for gays.

White people deserve reparations as compensation for whole lifetimes of losse$$$ from Affirmative Action discrimination against them.

You don't sound conservative, just IGNORANT.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 20, 2021)

Mr Clean said:


> Is there a difference?


Not with liberals there isn't.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 20, 2021)

dblack said:


> Overwhelming, like a mob?


Like majority of population. We all know who the mobs are.


----------



## dblack (Dec 20, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Like majority of population. We all know who the mobs are.
> 
> View attachment 577969
> 
> View attachment 577970


But the looting is all good if we take a vote first. Got it.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 20, 2021)

dblack said:


> Ahh.. so, just _some_ free shit. Is there any maximum to the amount of free shit you want? Any limits at all on your desire for government to take care of you?


Like I said, having normal rents, rather rip-off ones is not having anything free.  Nice try.



One of the dumbest things anybody can do in USMB is to try to paint a long time clear cut conservative as a liberal.  So you pretend that I'm some sort of leftist goofball who wants goodies from the government, huh ?  LOL. See Post # 680.   

When you mischaracterize, all you do is shatter your credibility (if you ever had any). And lots of liberals oppose rent control, with most blue states having laws against it. You don't know what you're talking about.

Some people have to be told twice.  Ho hum.    


And actually, if anybody in this thread is a liberal, it is you, and all the rest who are throwing in with Joe Biden's migrant airlift-dump program.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 20, 2021)

dblack said:


> But the looting is all good if we take a vote first. Got it.


Whatever it is you "Got", I don't get, because you talk in riddles, so whatever it is you're yammering about, please don't tell me.  I've seen enough lunacy here, for one month.


----------



## dblack (Dec 20, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Like I said, having normal rents, rather rip-off ones is not having anything free.  Nice try.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"It's different when we do it!"


----------



## protectionist (Dec 20, 2021)

dblack said:


> The discussion just highlights how useless the "left/right", "liberal/conservative" labels are. The op is a thoroughgoing reactionary statist - the polar opposite of a free market libertarian. Yet both camps are classified as "conservative".


No "market' has any right to subvert the well-being and health of the American people.
And ONE issue does not make someone a "statist" Mr Exaggeration.  There are other issues in which I oppose the state having excess power (e. vaccine mandates, PIP car insurance, Obamacare mandate, requirement for kids to attend schools that are leftist indoctrination factories, etc)

And "free market libertarian" is not conservative - it allows for massive globalist (communist) outsourcing to China, rather than CONSERVing US business and industry.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 20, 2021)

dblack said:


> "It's different when we do it!"


Got no idea what you're blabbering about, but go ahead, if it makes you feel better. Hey there's a full moon out tonight.  There you go!


----------



## dblack (Dec 20, 2021)

protectionist said:


> No "market' has any right to ...


The "market" has no rights. Property owners, however, do.


> And ONE issue does not make someone a "statist" Mr Exaggeration.


Agreed. But we've I've been round this ground with you over and over. You're straight up jackboot, and generally always cheering for heavy handed government.


> And "free market libertarian" is not conservative


I agree. But it depends on who you ask. When we constrain ourselves to the left right nonsense, libertarians usually get lumped in with the right.


----------



## dblack (Dec 20, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Got no idea what you're blabbering about, but go ahead, if it makes you feel better. Hey there's a full moon out tonight.  There you go!
> 
> View attachment 577990


Too subtle? OK, I'm saying you're a blatant hypocrite. That clear enough for you?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 20, 2021)

dblack said:


> Agreed. But we've I've been round this ground with you over and over. You're straight up jackboot, and generally always cheering for heavy handed government.


I don't know where you get that idea. Of 45,000 posts I've posted in this forum for 8 years, RARELY have I ever cheered for heavy handed government.  In fact, the only case I ever remember doing that with, is with rioters and illegal alien invaders.  Can't recall any other heavy handed govt I've supported.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 20, 2021)

dblack said:


> Too subtle? OK, I'm saying you're a blatant hypocrite. That clear enough for you?


NO, it's NOT.  You failed to state HOW.

Have no idea what you're talking about.


----------



## dblack (Dec 20, 2021)

protectionist said:


> In fact, the only case I ever remember doing that with, is with rioters and illegal alien invaders.


And rent control. And protectionist (duh) trade policies. Etc

In short, you oppose big government. Except when you don't. Except when it benefits you.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 20, 2021)

dblack said:


> And rent control. And protectionist (duh) trade policies. Etc
> 
> In short, you oppose big government. Except when you don't. Except when it benefits you.


You claim that stopping disgusting, thieving, scum who rent small apartments for 2-$5000/month, after having charged $600/mo to low-income elderly folks for those apartments, and forcing them out of their homes, with nowhere to go, is heavy handed government ? Are you insane ?  Or just incredibly dumb ?

NO.  I oppose big government in just about everything that Biden is doing, none of which benefits me.  You are just trying to demonize me, and doing a really bad job of it.


----------



## dblack (Dec 21, 2021)

protectionist said:


> You claim that stopping disgusting, thieving, scum who rent small apartments for 2-$5000/month, after having charged $600/mo to low-income elderly folks for those apartments, and forcing them out of their homes, with nowhere to go, is heavy handed government ?


Yep.


> Are you insane ?  Or just incredibly dumb ?


Nope. I'm just not a hypocrite.


> NO.  I oppose big government in just about everything that Biden is doing, none of which benefits me.


Exactly. You only oppose big government when it doesn't benefit you. When it does, you're all in.


----------



## dblack (Dec 21, 2021)

protectionist said:


> You are just trying to demonize me, and doing a really bad job of it.


Nope, I'm just saying you're hypocritical. And I don't think it's because you're demonic. You're just self-centered and kinda dumb.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 21, 2021)

dblack said:


> Yep.
> 
> Nope. I'm just not a hypocrite.
> 
> Exactly. You only oppose big government when it doesn't benefit you. When it does, you're all in.


Yes you're insane, and you don't know it. Either that or you have the mores of a wild dog.

I already answered your idiotic comment accusing me of hypocrisy You got refuted once . Now you're refuted twice.  

As for big government, when it harms me (and everyone else), I oppose it.  When it benefits the American people, me included (ex. police, FEMA, ICE, border patrol), I support it.  So ?

I have no particular characterization of big government, as you seem to.  It can be good. It can be bad, all depending on who's running it and how. Right now, with the landlord tyranny, and oppression of renters, it is severely negligent.  DUH!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 21, 2021)

protectionist said:


> When it benefits the American people, me included (ex. police, FEMA, ICE, border patrol), I support it. So ?



Would you, and the American people, benefit from $1 gasoline?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 21, 2021)

dblack said:


> Nope, I'm just saying you're hypocritical. And I don't think it's because you're demonic. You're just self-centered and kinda dumb.


You are just trying to demonize (villianize) me, and doing a really bad job of it.

As for self-centered, the problem I am discussing is a vicious attack on MILLIONS of people in Florida and elsewhere.  YOU are who is  "kinda dumb", or just playing that role,

If you, or the other strange critics in this thread were actually living through the experience of being forced out of your home (2nd time in 2.5 years for me), while unprepared to move (and why should we?), as so many people are, you would probably see this exactly as we do.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 21, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Would you, and the American people, benefit from $1 gasoline?


1)  



2)  



Sorry, I'm getting a ride to go to an important meeting in 15 minutes. Cannot educate you any longer right now.  You're on your own.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 21, 2021)

protectionist said:


> 1)  View attachment 578202
> 
> 2)  View attachment 578204
> 
> Sorry, I'm getting a ride to go to an important meeting in 15 minutes. Cannot educate you any longer right now.  You're on your own.



*When it benefits the American people, me included (ex. police, FEMA, ICE, border patrol), I support it. So ?*

Cheap gasoline doesn't benefit the America people, including you?





Police, FEMA, ICE and Border Patrol are on topic when it comes to rent control?

*Sorry, I'm getting a ride to go to an important meeting in 15 minutes. *

Oh, you don't own a car.....you wouldn't benefit from cheap gas. I understand.

*Cannot educate you any longer right now. *

Darn, I'll have to learn about supply and demand from someone less confused than you.
So pretty much anyone else. LOL!


----------



## dblack (Dec 21, 2021)

protectionist said:


> As for big government, when it harms me (and everyone else), I oppose it.  When it benefits the American people, me included (ex. police, FEMA, ICE, border patrol), I support it.  So ?


That's not what I'm seeing. When it benefits you, at the expense of others, you're all for government intervention. When the tables turn, so do you.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 21, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *When it benefits the American people, me included (ex. police, FEMA, ICE, border patrol), I support it. So ?*
> 
> Cheap gasoline doesn't benefit the America people, including you?
> 
> ...


You seem to have a problem correlating posts and replies/  The post >> _"When it benefits the American people, me included (ex. police, FEMA, ICE, border patrol), I support it. So ?_ ..was in reply to dblack's post # 709, not anything about cheap gasoline.

Police, FEMA, ICE and Border Patrol are on topic when it comes to dblack's post # 711, which it was in reply to.   

I'll benefit from cheap gas, when I buy a car again in a couple of months, but again, cheap gas isn't the topic.

I'm not at all confused about supply and demand. YOU are the one who is confused as indicated by you constantly talking about it, when it is not the topic, and the rent crisis in Tampa is not a supply/demand issue.  It is an issue of government neglect of the people of Florida. (and the whole US I reckon, since Biden's airlift-dumps are happening all over).

Maybe you could find a thread pertaining to supply & demand - would be a better fit for you.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 21, 2021)

dblack said:


> That's not what I'm seeing. When it benefits you, at the expense of others, you're all for government intervention. When the tables turn, so do you.


You're "seeing" wrong. Clean your glasses.

Oh, so you're not seeing that I support the government > police ICE, FEMA, the Border Patrol ?  I wonder why you wouldn't see that ?  And you're not seeing that I don't support Biden's big government policies ?  I wonder why you wouldn't see that.  And you're not seeing that all this is perfectly normal, and has nothing to do with any turning tables ?  

You're just a stupid, little boy jerk, that's all, whose playing gotcha here, and falling on your face through it. And you're one of those guys who even after you've been corrected twice, you still come back trying to make the same nitwit "point".  Waste of time talking to you.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 21, 2021)

protectionist said:


> _"When it benefits the American people, me included (ex. police, FEMA, ICE, border patrol), I support it. So ?_ ..was in reply to dblack's post # 709, not anything about cheap gasoline.



Are the only things that benefit the American people "_police, FEMA, ICE, border patrol"?_
Have you had a stroke? Your thinking isn't very clear.

*I'll benefit from cheap gas, when I buy a car again in a couple of months,*

In a few months, if you buy a car,  should the government set the price of gasoline at $1 a gallon?

*I'm not at all confused about supply and demand. YOU are the one who is confused as indicated by you constantly talking about it, when it is not the topic, and **the rent crisis in Tampa is not a supply/demand issue.*

You didn't previously claim too many foreigners came in and outbid you? 
Sounds like a demand issue.
Admit it, you didn't teach economics, you taught home economics.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 23, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Are the only things that benefit the American people "_police, FEMA, ICE, border patrol"?_
> Have you had a stroke? Your thinking isn't very clear.
> 
> *I'll benefit from cheap gas, when I buy a car again in a couple of months,*
> ...


"YOUR thinking isn't very clear".  The abbreviation "ex." means EXAMPLES.  So no need for your use of the word "only".  Get it ?    

I don't know it is with you and $1 a gallon, but I'm not interested in that goofball notion.

It is not economics. YOU are converting it into economics. It is a social issue of irresponsible immigration activity by Joe Biden, and a severe hardship issue for millions of Americans, which you appear to support.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 23, 2021)

protectionist said:


> "YOUR thinking isn't very clear".  The abbreviation "ex." means EXAMPLES.  So no need for your use of the word "only".  Get it ?
> 
> I don't know it is with you and $1 a gallon, but I'm not interested in that goofball notion.
> 
> It is not economics. YOU are converting it into economics. It is a social issue of irresponsible immigration activity by Joe Biden, and a severe hardship issue for millions of Americans, which you appear to support.



*"YOUR thinking isn't very clear". The abbreviation "ex." means EXAMPLES. So no need for your use of the word "only". Get it ? *

_Are the only things that benefit the American people "police, FEMA, ICE, border patrol"?_

The word "Are" and the  "?" means I was asking you a question. 
Would the American people benefit from $1 gas or not? Get it?

*I don't know it is with you and $1 a gallon, but I'm not interested in that goofball notion.*

It does pretty clearly show the fault in your "reasoning", not to mention your weak knowledge of economics. You never said, did you stop teaching it because they realized you were unqualified?

*It is not economics. YOU are converting it into economics.*

When the government sets prices, it is economics.
You just won't admit (can't understand?) what price controls do to supply and demand.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 23, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *"YOUR thinking isn't very clear". The abbreviation "ex." means EXAMPLES. So no need for your use of the word "only". Get it ? *
> 
> _Are the only things that benefit the American people "police, FEMA, ICE, border patrol"?_
> 
> ...


yeah, and it was a ridiculous question. Are you having reading comprehension problems ?  "You seem to have a problem correlating posts and replies/ The post >> _"When it benefits the American people, me included (ex. police, FEMA, ICE, border patrol), I support it. So ?"_

Your posts are so muddled, and off topic, and gooney, that I just wish you would go away, and post your mudpuddles somewhere else.  You haven't said anything that interests me I'm talking about a human suffering crisis, and you keep babbling about economics, which I dont give a damn about in this scenario.

And I'm not at all impressed with your (lack of) knowledge of economics. You fell on your face, on the bell-shaped curve of prices and business income.  Didn't have a clue what I was talking about. I reckon you still don't.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 23, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *It is not economics. YOU are converting it into economics.*
> 
> When the government sets prices, it is economics.
> You just won't admit (can't understand?) what price controls do to supply and demand.


NO.  When the government sets prices to keep people housed, it is a social act, NOT economic.

AGAIN for the 50th time. I'm not talking about supply and demand, and I don't give a rat's ass about it.  This thread is NOT about supply & demand. Go post your supply & demand jibberish somewhere else.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 23, 2021)

protectionist said:


> yeah, and it was a ridiculous question.



It highlights your ridiculous economic idiocy.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 23, 2021)

protectionist said:


> You fell on your face, on the bell-shaped curve of prices and business income.



Why don't you you post a supply/price curve and a demand/price curve.

Which economics textbooks used a bell curve? LOL!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 23, 2021)

protectionist said:


> NO. When the government sets prices to keep people housed, it is a social act, NOT economic.



When the government sets prices, it's economic.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 23, 2021)

protectionist said:


> I'm not talking about supply and demand, and I don't give a rat's ass about it.



It makes sense that you don't care about it because you clearly don't understand it.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 23, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> It makes sense that you don't care about it because you clearly don't understand it.


Of course I understand it, but in the USA it does not trump government FOR THE PEOPLE.  That's what YOU don't understand.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 23, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> When the government sets prices, it's economic.


Not in this case.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 23, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Why don't you you post a supply/price curve and a demand/price curve.
> 
> Which economics textbooks used a bell curve? LOL!


You dont understand it.  Why do you think a business owner has 10 employees (rather than 8 or 9) ?  Because he's a philanthropist, and want to help people out ?


----------



## protectionist (Dec 23, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> It highlights your ridiculous economic idiocy.


I'm not talking about economics. YOU are. (off topic)


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 23, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Not in this case.



Yeah, prices are kind of important in economics.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 23, 2021)

protectionist said:


> You dont understand it.  Why do you think a business owner has 10 employees (rather than 8 or 9) ?  Because he's a philanthropist, and want to help people out ?



Supply curve and demand curve, not bell curve.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 24, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Supply curve and demand curve, not bell curve.


Wrong, economics student.  The bell curve is the correct answer.  The number of employees is determined by that number which makes the firm the most money.

Too few workers > too few sales$$
Too many workers > too much cost.

The correct number is at the top of the bell.

Supply & demand is a different matter.

Your grade on this  >> F.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 24, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Yeah, prices are kind of important in economics.


Economics is not the TOPIC.


----------



## protectionist (Dec 24, 2021)

Oh, isn't this nice ? > NOW, almost 2022, with zero affordable housing left anywhere, and the Tampa eggheads are finally talking about enacting rent control here. 
Too late, do-nothings.  The time to act on this *was 2 years ago*.  Damage is already done now.

Closing barn door after horse has already ran off.









						Tampa City Council chairman eyes temporary rent controls
					

Orlando Gudes says renters are being ‘gouged’ by landlords.




					www.tampabay.com


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 24, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Wrong, economics student.  The bell curve is the correct answer.  The number of employees is determined by that number which makes the firm the most money.
> 
> Too few workers > too few sales$$
> Too many workers > too much cost.
> ...



*The number of employees is determined by that number which makes the firm the most money.*

You increase the number of employees, you increase the cost of your product.
Increased cost, decreased demand.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 24, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Economics is not the TOPIC.



Liberals are really, really bad at economics.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 24, 2021)

protectionist said:


> Oh, isn't this nice ? > NOW, almost 2022, with zero affordable housing left anywhere, and the Tampa eggheads are finally talking about enacting rent control here.
> Too late, do-nothings.  The time to act on this *was 2 years ago*.  Damage is already done now.
> 
> Closing barn door after horse has already ran off.
> ...



_Former St. Petersburg mayoral candidate and outgoing City Council member Robert Blackmon was the only vote against that city’s proposal. He said rent controls would hurt developers and encourage builders to look elsewhere for new home and apartment sites._

Wait.....controlling the price of something may reduce the supply? That's crazy.
Just ask any liberal economics teacher.


----------



## Dadoalex (Dec 24, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Organize a union of renters. Get some rent control going.
> 
> Capitalism can suck. People were willing to pay more rent than you so they got the apartment.


The free market offers no good solutions to this.

Rising prices are the spur that increases building which keeps prices lower.  Without one, you cannot have the other.

However, that dynamic ignores the fact that renters generally are lower income and may not be able to afford the changes.

I think a better solution is an income base rent supplement.  Not section 8 housing but the ability to live anywhere with pricing limits.  The consumer pays rent to the housing authority and the authority pays the market price rent directly to the landlord.

This would both help increase expansion of the housing market while allowing people to live in decent housing without going broke.

Low end housing, slums, would eventually disappear as demand for these rat traps would essentially evaporate.


----------



## protectionist (Jan 7, 2022)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> _Former St. Petersburg mayoral candidate and outgoing City Council member Robert Blackmon was the only vote against that city’s proposal. He said rent controls would hurt developers and encourage builders to look elsewhere for new home and apartment sites._
> 
> Wait.....controlling the price of something may reduce the supply? That's crazy.
> Just ask any liberal economics teacher.


Better yet, ask a far-right conservative ex-economics teacher.  That would be me.

Your answer is that nobody at reducing the price of anything. The "price" of housing is what it was before the lunacy of raising prices 50-100+% took over. 
So if a 1 bdrm apt was $550/month VERY RECENTLY, and then lunatic landlords raised it 110%, to $1,150/mo, the actual price is $550/mo.  So, if the price (rent) is restored to $550/mo.. that is no change in rent, and no reason for supply to be reduced. 

If the landlord has some real reason to raise price, to account for some increased cost, it should be OK for a maximum increase of 10% (Not ONE HUNDRED & 10%). This is how it has always been, and should continue to be. Landlords and tenants have been OK with this all along, for decades. No need for any change.


----------



## protectionist (Jan 7, 2022)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Liberals are really, really bad at economics.


Like the liberals who are supporting Biden's migrant, airlift dumping, and the resulting overpopulation > rent gouging ? Yeah, they are lousy at economics, and even worse at the topic of this thread > housing sociology.


----------



## protectionist (Jan 7, 2022)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *The number of employees is determined by that number which makes the firm the most money.*
> 
> You increase the number of employees, you increase the cost of your product.
> Increased cost, decreased demand.


Which is why you DON'T increase the number of employees (unless it will result in  increased sale$, economically)


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 8, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Like the liberals who are supporting Biden's migrant, airlift dumping, and the resulting overpopulation > rent gouging ? Yeah, they are lousy at economics, and even worse at the topic of this thread > housing sociology.



Rent control is housing sociology?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 8, 2022)

protectionist said:


> So if a 1 bdrm apt was $550/month VERY RECENTLY, and then lunatic landlords raised it 110%, to $1,150/mo, the actual price is $550/mo. So, if the price (rent) is restored to $550/mo.. that is no change in rent, and no reason for supply to be reduced.



If rent is limited to $550/month, some new development won't occur.
That's reducing new supply.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jan 8, 2022)

Interest rates will soon go up.........I'd advise hurrying the hell up finding your own place.


----------



## protectionist (Jan 8, 2022)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Rent control is housing sociology?


You heard right.


----------



## protectionist (Jan 8, 2022)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> If rent is limited to $550/month, some new development won't occur.
> That's reducing new supply.


FALSE! There is no reason for new development to not occur.  It occured when rent was $550/mo, $500/mo, $450/mo, $400/mo.   No reason to think that would change one iota.


----------



## protectionist (Jan 8, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> Interest rates will soon go up.........I'd advise hurrying the hell up finding your own place.


I already found it.  Nice apartment at less rent than I would have paid where I was. Restricted income building still under construction - will be finished this week.  Has many amenities.  Rent increases are limited by reason of restricted income status. I got lucky.


----------



## Wyatt earp (Jan 8, 2022)

Crepitus said:


> This is what republicanism leads to.  Poor people with no place to.go.
> 
> Maybe you could hold a protest?  Oh wait, you hate protestors and think they should be run over.
> 
> Shoulda voted Democrat.


You fucking idiot it's the transplants who are democrats that are causing this mess..

They fuck up a blue state then run to a redstate and fuck that state up alsio


----------



## protectionist (Jan 8, 2022)

bear513 said:


> You fucking idiot it's the transplants who are democrats that are causing this mess..
> 
> They fuck up a blue state then run to a redstate and fuck that state up alsio


That, plus the Biden migrant-airlift-dumping, combined with anti-rent control law.


----------



## protectionist (Jan 8, 2022)

Crepitus said:


> This is what republicanism leads to.  Poor people with no place to.go.
> 
> Maybe you could hold a protest?  Oh wait, you hate protestors and think they should be run over.
> 
> Shoulda voted Democrat.


Most Democrat states have state laws banning rent control. Yeah, big help voting Democrat is.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 8, 2022)

protectionist said:


> FALSE! There is no reason for new development to not occur.  It occured when rent was $550/mo, $500/mo, $450/mo, $400/mo.   No reason to think that would change one iota.



*There is no reason for new development to not occur.  *

You don't think less development will occur at $550 than at $1150?

*No reason to think that would change one iota.*

You must have been the worst econ teacher in history.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 8, 2022)

protectionist said:


> FALSE! There is no reason for new development to not occur.  It occured when rent was $550/mo, $500/mo, $450/mo, $400/mo.   No reason to think that would change one iota.




*No reason to think that would change one iota.*




LOL!


----------



## protectionist (Jan 9, 2022)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *There is no reason for new development to not occur.  *
> 
> You don't think less development will occur at $550 than at $1150?
> 
> ...


Nope.  Nope.


----------



## protectionist (Jan 9, 2022)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *No reason to think that would change one iota.*
> 
> View attachment 585573
> LOL!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 9, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Nope.  Nope.



Of course, you refuted the supply curve.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 9, 2022)

Of course my refutation of your idiocy is off topic. DURR


----------



## protectionist (Jan 11, 2022)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Of course my refutation of your idiocy is off topic. DURR


You refuted nothing, Mr Deflection, other than the notion that you have a basic idea of what this thread is about.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 11, 2022)

protectionist said:


> You refuted nothing, Mr Deflection, other than the notion that you have a basic idea of what this thread is about.







What's the basic idea here?


----------



## dblack (Jan 11, 2022)

It's the responsibility of government to take care of protectionist and provide for all his needs. Or, just some of them I guess. Which ones? Depends on the weather?


----------



## protectionist (Jan 15, 2022)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> View attachment 586469
> 
> What's the basic idea here?


The *basic idea here*, is the need for society to PROTECT its elderly, low-income citizens, during a time of critical housing rental extremism, from the wolf pack of greedy, money-grabbing landlords, who pay no attention to those folks, while energetically racing to enrich themselves, as much as possible, regardless of the collateral damage fallout.

What you're babbling about, I have no idea, nor any interest in it.


----------



## protectionist (Jan 15, 2022)

dblack said:


> It's the responsibility of government to take care of protectionist and provide for all his needs. Or, just some of them I guess. Which ones? Depends on the weather?


Protectionist, and millions of others, but you knew that.


----------



## protectionist (Jan 15, 2022)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *There is no reason for new development to not occur.  *
> 
> You don't think less development will occur at $550 than at $1150?
> 
> ...


I don't think it...I KNOW it.   $1150 is a FALSE item.  It doesn't exist in the real world, but only in the concocted world of manipulations, by Biden, migrants, and investor sharks.

Back to reality - in a decent apartment complex with many amenities, 1 bedroom apartment rents for $600/month.  As always, landlords make their profits, renters are happy, maintenance workers keep things going, everybody's happy.


----------



## protectionist (Jan 15, 2022)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Of course, you refuted the supply curve.


I didn't. Nor did I try. I simply pay no attention to what is not related to the discussion. Ho hum.


----------



## Wyatt earp (Jan 15, 2022)

protectionist said:


> The *basic idea here*, is the need for society to PROTECT its elderly, low-income citizens, during a time of critical housing rental extremism, from the wolf pack of greedy, money-grabbing landlords, who pay no attention to those folks, while energetically racing to enrich themselves, as much as possible, regardless of the collateral damage fallout.
> 
> What you're babbling about, I have no idea, nor any interest in it.


You are blaming the wrong people, it's the damn democrats voting for assinine policy's and then running to cheaper red controlled places and doing the same thing


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 15, 2022)

protectionist said:


> The *basic idea here*, is the need for society to PROTECT its elderly, low-income citizens, during a time of critical housing rental extremism, from the wolf pack of greedy, money-grabbing landlords, who pay no attention to those folks, while energetically racing to enrich themselves, as much as possible, regardless of the collateral damage fallout.
> 
> What you're babbling about, I have no idea, nor any interest in it.



_The *basic idea here*, is the need for society to PROTECT its elderly, low-income citizens_

No, that's not the basic idea of a supply curve.

_What you're babbling about, I have no idea, nor any interest in it._

Of course not, because you have very little understanding of even basic economics.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 15, 2022)

protectionist said:


> I don't think it...I KNOW it.   $1150 is a FALSE item.  It doesn't exist in the real world, but only in the concocted world of manipulations, by Biden, migrants, and investor sharks.
> 
> Back to reality - in a decent apartment complex with many amenities, 1 bedroom apartment rents for $600/month.  As always, landlords make their profits, renters are happy, maintenance workers keep things going, everybody's happy.



*Back to reality - in a decent apartment complex with many amenities, 1 bedroom apartment rents for $600/month*

Which is why you can't find that now....reality.

You should definitely buy or build a decent apartment complex with many amenities and only charge $600/month for a 1 bedroom apartment.

Post your profitability on this thread. Good luck!!!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 15, 2022)

protectionist said:


> I simply pay no attention to what is not related to the discussion.



DURR


----------



## dblack (Jan 15, 2022)

The gubberment should take care of me!!!!


----------



## protectionist (Jan 18, 2022)

bear513 said:


> You are blaming the wrong people, it's the damn democrats voting for assinine policy's and then running to cheaper red controlled places and doing the same thing


You'd have to clarify that.  Too ambiguous.


----------



## protectionist (Jan 18, 2022)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> _The *basic idea here*, is the need for society to PROTECT its elderly, low-income citizens_
> 
> No, that's not the basic idea of a supply curve.
> 
> ...


Correct, it is not the basic idea of a supply curve. It is the basic idea of THIS THREAD.
 which has nothing whatsoever to do with any supply curve.

And you have already proven that you are clueless on basic economics.  You get an F, student.


----------



## protectionist (Jan 18, 2022)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *Back to reality - in a decent apartment complex with many amenities, 1 bedroom apartment rents for $600/month*
> 
> Which is why you can't find that now....reality.
> 
> ...


NO, that's NOT why you can't find it now. The manipulations by Biden, migrants, and investor sharks, are why you can't find it now, combined with the worthlessness of impotent government.

A decent apartment complex with many amenities,  charging $600/month for a 1 bedroom apartment would have a profitability the same as all the profitabilities that landlords had a few years ago, when 1 bdrm apts were commonly renting for $600/mo, and landlords were doing fine, from year to year.  Nothing has changed in that respect.  Ho hum.

Landlords don't need to gouge renters to make profits. They could just do what they've always done.


----------



## protectionist (Jan 18, 2022)

dblack said:


> The gubberment should take care of me!!!!


Sometimes. Form follows function.

That's what government is for. Would you prefer to not have one at all ? What if there were no gubberment construction regulations ? Maybe the house you're living in, would collapse, and come crashing down on your head.

Maybe the food you eat would give you cancer.  Maybe the car you drive, would turn into a fireball.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 18, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Correct, it is not the basic idea of a supply curve.



Economics is always about the supply curve.

This thread is about your total ignorance of the supply curve.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 18, 2022)

protectionist said:


> NO, that's NOT why you can't find it now. The manipulations by Biden, migrants, and investor sharks, are why you can't find it now, combined with the worthlessness of impotent government.
> 
> A decent apartment complex with many amenities,  charging $600/month for a 1 bedroom apartment would have a profitability the same as all the profitabilities that landlords had a few years ago, when 1 bdrm apts were commonly renting for $600/mo, and landlords were doing fine, from year to year.  Nothing has changed in that respect.  Ho hum.
> 
> Landlords don't need to gouge renters to make profits. They could just do what they've always done.



*NO, that's NOT why you can't find it now. The manipulations by Biden, migrants, and investor sharks, are why you can't find it now, combined with the worthlessness of impotent government.*

Wait, too many buyers and not enough sellers makes the price go up?
That almost sounds like economics!

*A decent apartment complex with many amenities,  charging $600/month for a 1 bedroom apartment would have a profitability the same as all the profitabilities that landlords had a few years ago*

Awesome!

So build one. Charge $600/month. Post your happy results.


----------



## dblack (Jan 18, 2022)

protectionist said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > The gubberment should take care of me!!!!
> ...


I couldn't disagree more. That's exactly what government is NOT for.


protectionist said:


> Would you prefer to not have one at all ?


Never said that. But government is there to protect our rights, our freedom to care for ourselves. We are not, nor should we aspire to be, wards of the state.


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 22, 2022)

fncceo said:


> It's called "the market".  It has existed since the beginning of human interactions.  You can't wish it away with legislation.



It is not exactly fair and has been less and less fair the last century.
The tax laws greatly cater to landlords with tax write off that owners can't get.
And it can easily be corrected with legislation.


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 22, 2022)

fncceo said:


> Fascism is a political ideology.  Communism is an economic ideology.
> 
> Apples are not the opposite or oranges.



Not really.
Fascism is a coalition of the aristocracy, military, and corporations, essentially the wealthy elite, in order to maximize profits.  So fascism is actually entirely economic.  The populist jingoes that fascist use to then be political successful then are political, but that is really the cover story and not the real thing.
And while communism is theoretically economic, the idea of pooling public resources for the benefit of the public, like if we had public health care, really is political.  Just like having public schools, roads, police, firemen, etc., really is political as well.
I used to think political and economic issues were orthogonal, but they aren't really.
Think about communism.
That means cooperative, communal, and collective means of production, where you either work or rely on.
Well how could one have a means of production that was cooperative, communal, and collective, if you don't also have a democracy?
If you don't have a democracy, then the means of production would be controlled by an autocracy that would automatically prevent it from being cooperative, communal, and collective.
So communism DOES imply a political system of democracy as well as its implication of economic pooling.


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 22, 2022)

dblack said:


> I couldn't disagree more. That's exactly what government is NOT for.
> 
> Never said that. But government is there to protect our rights, our freedom to care for ourselves. We are not, nor should we aspire to be, wards of the state.



The only way to protect the rights of home, are for government to help collective bargain or collective investment in homes for everyone.


----------



## dblack (Apr 22, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> The only way to protect the rights of home, are for government to help collective bargain or collective investment in homes for everyone.


If you say so.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 23, 2022)

fncceo said:


> It's called "the market".  It has existed since the beginning of human interactions.  You can't wish it away with legislation.


You don't "wish it away", you simply set parameters on how much rent can be charged.
"Can't"?  New York has been doing it for 100 years.


----------



## task0778 (Apr 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> You don't "wish it away", you simply set parameters on how much rent can be charged.
> "Can't"?  New York has been doing it for 100 years.



I believe that's called rent or price controls.  What happens when you do that is less creation of rental properties which acerbates the problem.  IOW, less supply which leads to higher prices and also lower maintenance of existing properties.  Which has occurred over and over again in city after city, including New York.

_The textbook case against rent control comes from New York City, where government intervention in the rental market started in 1943. For decades, tightly-controlled rents failed to cover basic maintenance and operating costs. As a result, builders added few new rental units and landlords let buildings deteriorate since they couldn’t increase rents to pay for needed upkeep.

By 1968, New York’s vacancy rate — the percentage of rental properties available — fell to 1.23 percent. For comparison, the vacancy rate in Los Angeles today is 3.7 percent. Many New York neighborhoods became blighted and abandoned buildings became common. Over 200,000 rental units were abandoned in the 1960s and ‘70s as rent control restrictions, along with other policies, reduced the South Bronx and parts of Bedford-Stuyvesant and Harlem to rubble.

Rent controls gave way to “rent stabilization” in 1969, but New York rents continued to fall short of breakeven costs for property owners. Lawmakers addressed neglected buildings by imposing a “duty to repair” on landlords. Enforcement, however, was difficult and landlords, tenants and regulators often ended up in court.

In 1994, New York City finally decontrolled rents on apartments occupied by high-income residents and on high-end units that became vacant.

New York’s rent controls created shortages and under-investment.  And while the people who needed affordable apartments most often struggled to find them, many well-off tenants lived in rent-controlled apartments for decades.  When rent is heavily regulated, tenants have incentives to hold onto apartments. Older adults will remain in three-bedroom units after their children leave home. Others sublet their apartments or invite relatives to assume their leases instead of giving up rent-controlled apartments. Thus, young people cannot find affordable housing for their growing families, and newcomers have to find roommates to share costs, or buy expensive co-ops or condos — if they can afford them.









						Rent Control Laws Nearly Destroyed Parts of New York City. They Could Do the Same to California - Reason Foundation
					

New York’s rent controls created shortages and under-investment.




					reason.org
				



_


----------



## protectionist (Apr 23, 2022)

task0778 said:


> I believe that's called rent or price controls.  What happens when you do that is less creation of rental properties which acerbates the problem.  IOW, less supply which leads to higher prices and also lower maintenance of existing properties.  Which has occurred over and over again in city after city, including New York.
> 
> _The textbook case against rent control comes from New York City, where government intervention in the rental market started in 1943. For decades, tightly-controlled rents failed to cover basic maintenance and operating costs. As a result, builders added few new rental units and landlords let buildings deteriorate since they couldn’t increase rents to pay for needed upkeep.
> 
> ...


NO, it does NOT reduce creation of rental properties.  That occurs when NORMAL conditions exist, and rents are only slightly raised, with the rent control stopping small modest increases, which landlords need to maintain properties to reasonable standards/

There's nothing reasonable about the rent increases occuring now in the Tampa Bay area, in other parts of Florida, and in other parts of the US.  Rent inflation here is at more than 200%, with many apartment complexes gone up about 300%, instantly, with new owners taking over the complexes.

I just moved out of 2 complexes in Tampa. The last one went from $600/mo to $850/mo, and that's considered small. The one I moved from in 2019, went from $550 to $900, and a small 1 bedroom apt there is now going for $1300/mo.

1 bedroom apartments here are common at $1800-$2000/mo, which were less than $700/mo 3 years ago.

As for New York City, I was born & raised there, and grew up in a rent controlled apartment. Had there not been rent control there in the 1940s, I might never have been born.

Also, rent control is not what caused buildings to become slums in New York.  That was caused by the influx of people who simply mistreated their buildings. Some of these people were given brand new buildings (aka "Projects), and withing a couple of years, they turned them into a shithouse.

The entire neighborhood where I was raised (Fort George), is still doing fine, buildings perfectly intact, and landlords making profits from buildings over 100 years old, and all under rent control.  Same exists in dozens of neighborhoods all over the city.


----------



## task0778 (Apr 23, 2022)

Last November St. Paul passed a policy on rent control.

_“The city just approved a rent control measure that will limit landlords’ ability to increase rents on its 65,000+ rental properties,” wrote Polumbo. “They will not be able to increase prices by more than 3 percent each year under the new law.
.
.
“With three months of data on the books since the passage of the rent control measure in November, results are rather grim for anyone hoping for new apartment buildings in St. Paul,” Lindeke writes. “Compared to the same period during the previous year, multifamily building permits are down over 80 percent. Meanwhile, in Minneapolis overall construction is up as the economy has rebounded.”

As Lindeke explains, even if developers want to continue building in St. Paul, they face stiff headwinds because they can no longer get financing._




> “Because people making financing decisions view rent inflexibility as increasing risk, they have been simply leaving St. Paul construction projects by the wayside. As one St. Paul developer described during a recent round table discussion, ‘it’s a concern.’
> “We have two projects with 260 units where the capital stack was all put together and ready to go, but when the ordinance passed those investors went away,” explained Kou Vang, president of JB Vang Real Estate. ‘A lot of our investors were family funds, stuff of that nature, and they still went away.’”


​_In his book Basic Economics, economist Thomas Sowell painstakingly documents the destructive results of rent control policies around the world. (A Swedish economist once quipped that rent control “appears to be the most efficient technique presently known to destroy a city—except for bombing.”)_

_In Melbourne, Australia, not one housing unit was built for nine years—nine years!—because rent control laws had destroyed the profit motive._
_In Santa Monica, California, in 1979, the number of building permits dropped by 90 percent in just a few years because—again—rent control laws had destroyed the incentive to create new housing._
_In the 1970s, residents in Washington, DC, saw housing stock decline from 199,000 to less than 176,000. Why? Because many people decided to stop renting their homes because of price controls._





__





						The Results of a US City's Rent Control Experiment Are In—and They’re Disastrous
					

Economics 101 strikes again. “Compared to the same period during the previous year, multifamily building permits are down over 80 percent."



					fee.org


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> NO, it does NOT reduce creation of rental properties.  That occurs when NORMAL conditions exist, and rents are only slightly raised, with the rent control stopping small modest increases, which landlords need to maintain properties to reasonable standards/
> 
> There's nothing reasonable about the rent increases occuring now in the Tampa Bay area, in other parts of Florida, and in other parts of the US.  Rent inflation here is at more than 200%, with many apartment complexes gone up about 300%, instantly, with new owners taking over the complexes.
> 
> ...



*NO, it does NOT reduce creation of rental properties.*

LOL!

You're funny.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> You don't "wish it away", you simply set parameters on how much rent can be charged.
> "Can't"?  New York has been doing it for 100 years.


And take a look at the buildings that are rent controlled.  They are certainly not very nice anymore.  Why should an owner spend money on maintenance when he is losing money on a building and can’t sell it.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 23, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Why should an owner spend money on maintenance when he is losing money on a building and can’t sell it.



Because owners are mean.

Just ask him.


----------



## task0778 (Apr 23, 2022)

One of the most basic rules of economics and investing is that money flows to where it makes the most return relative to the risks involved.  Lower returns translates into less investment, that's just the way it is.  And that is why when you introduce rent controls you are making new rental properties less attractive, and the money goes elsewhere.  And I might add that making renovations and repairs become less attractive too.  One can scream about the immorality all you want, but it doesn't change the reality.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 23, 2022)

task0778 said:


> One of the most basic rules of economics and investing is that money flows to where it makes the most return relative to the risks involved.  Lower returns translates into less investment, that's just the way it is.  And that is why when you introduce rent controls you are making new rental properties less attractive, and the money goes elsewhere.  And I might add that making renovations and repairs become less attractive too.  One can scream about the immorality all you want, but it doesn't change the reality.



That can't be true, protectionist was an economics teacher.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 24, 2022)

task0778 said:


> One of the most basic rules of economics and investing is that money flows to where it makes the most return relative to the risks involved.  Lower returns translates into less investment, that's just the way it is.  And that is why when you introduce rent controls you are making new rental properties less attractive, and the money goes elsewhere.  And I might add that making renovations and repairs become less attractive too.  One can scream about the immorality all you want, but it doesn't change the reality.


In order to assess the attractiveness of new rental properties, quite a few things would need to be taken inti account.  With regards to rent control, properties can be just as attractive now or in the future as they were before the skyrocketed rents began a couple of years ago.

Rental properties don't need rent gouging (300% increases) to be attractive.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 24, 2022)

task0778 said:


> Last November St. Paul passed a policy on rent control.
> 
> _“The city just approved a rent control measure that will limit landlords’ ability to increase rents on its 65,000+ rental properties,” wrote Polumbo. “They will not be able to increase prices by more than 3 percent each year under the new law.
> .
> ...


These hysteria chants dont change anything.  3% seems a little low, and quite a distance away from 300%, wouldn't you say ?  

If you want to have some credibility in a debate, you have to stay within the parameters of the topic.  We're talking about EXTREME rent hikes.  All you're doing here is reciting the traditional anti-rent control mantras we've all heard for years. Ho hum.

But those mantras re not applicable to the current scenario of 200-300% rent increases. THAT is what we're talking about here/now. Please address the topic , not straying off to ones that dont fit the circumstances.   Landlords don't need 300% rent increases, or 100% rent increases, or 50% rent increases. Thye were all making perfectly good profits while raising rents no more than 5% per year, and in many cases, with no rent increases at all.

As my old physics professor used to say, "qualitative measures are created by and exist in and of quantitative measures."  Nobody is talking about any rent control that would endanger any landlord's operations. 

It must also be repeated that we are not talking about selling TV sets, guitars, or golf clubs.  Housing is a fundamental human NECESSITY.  As a society of basic humanitarian morals, we need to have housing (# 1 element of human survival) obtainable for the American people.  Landlords should recognize this.  If you dont want to keep your necessity commodity within reach of people, sell after shave lotion.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 24, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> And take a look at the buildings that are rent controlled.  They are certainly not very nice anymore.  Why should an owner spend money on maintenance when he is losing money on a building and can’t sell it.


Thousands of buildings under rent control, are still lived in and viable.  You are responding to landlord biased propaganda.


----------



## task0778 (Apr 24, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Rental properties don't need rent gouging (300% increases) to be attractive.



I do not believe anybody's rent was increased 300% unless maybe it was over like 50 years.  My own rent went up about 10% last year, inflation hits everybody including rental owners.  But 300%?  That's ridiculous.  If your rent was $1000 and now it's $4000?  Bullshit.


----------



## Concerned American (Apr 24, 2022)

task0778 said:


> I do not believe anybody's rent was increased 300% unless maybe it was over like 50 years.  My own rent went up about 10% last year, inflation hits everybody including rental owners.  But 300%?  That's ridiculous.  If your rent was $1000 and now it's $4000?  Bullshit.


This guys been whining about rent for six months.  He seems to think that rental owners should just do it out of the kindness of their hearts.  He doesn't understand that their costs go up along with everyone else.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Apr 24, 2022)

Did he ever move?


----------



## Concerned American (Apr 24, 2022)

protectionist said:


> The entire neighborhood where I was raised (Fort George), is still doing fine, buildings perfectly intact, and landlords making profits from buildings over 100 years old, and all under rent control. Same exists in dozens of neighborhoods all over the city.


Move there.  Rental owners are not  charities.  They don't owe you.  If you want to live there, pay the rent, apparently there are people who will or they couldn't charge those amounts.


----------



## task0778 (Apr 24, 2022)

task0778 said:


> I do not believe anybody's rent was increased 300% unless maybe it was over like 50 years.  My own rent went up about 10% last year, inflation hits everybody including rental owners.  But 300%?  That's ridiculous.  If your rent was $1000 and now it's $4000?  Bullshit.



Added:  OK. I did a little research and some people are saying or have said in the past that their rent went up 300%.  Maybe that's true, but I doubt there are that many cases of such, probably instances where the rental property owner wants to sell the place and build something different on the site.  Which actually is their right although there may be some legal and zoning issues.


----------



## Concerned American (Apr 24, 2022)

protectionist said:


> But those mantras re not applicable to the current scenario of 200-300% rent increases.


Link?  Increases of that magnitude would not fly if people were either unable or unwilling to pay them.  That is called a free market, a product sells (or rents) for whatever the market will bear.


----------



## Concerned American (Apr 24, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Thye were all making perfectly good profits while raising rents no more than 5% per year,


General inflation has increased by over 8% this year.  Fuel prices have increased over100% in the past year and you want to limit rental properties to 5%?  That is ridiculous.


----------



## Concerned American (Apr 24, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Housing is a fundamental human NECESSITY.


Go take the loan out and buy a place.  Your housing costs will remain fixed for thirty years.  Of course you will have to pay for all of the upkeep and repairs and you'll have to pay the increased cost of those as dictated by inflation--then you can blame the people responsible--Brandon.


----------



## Concerned American (Apr 24, 2022)

Concerned American said:


> Go take the loan out and buy a place.  Your housing costs will remain fixed for thirty years.  Of course you will have to pay for all of the upkeep and repairs and you'll have to pay the increased cost of those as dictated by inflation--then you can blame the people responsible--Brandon.


CONT.  Then you can add the increased taxes that the democrats put on property as the value increases because, hey, you're a property owner--you can afford it.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 25, 2022)

task0778 said:


> I do not believe anybody's rent was increased 300% unless maybe it was over like 50 years.  My own rent went up about 10% last year, inflation hits everybody including rental owners.  But 300%?  That's ridiculous.  If your rent was $1000 and now it's $4000?  Bullshit.


You can disbelieve all you like but you can also come to Tampa and see it with you're own eyes.  Or you can go to the websites of Tampa apartment complexes and see their rents of $2000/month for a 1 bedroom apartment.  The you cam look up what these guys were charging 2-3 years ago, and you will KNOW what I'm talking about, instead of speculating it.





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						Azalea  - 1 Bedroom 1 Bath
					

Azalea  - 1 Bedroom 1 Bath




					www.liveatturtlecreek.com
				




This is the apartment I moved out of 2 years ago. I was paying $550/month. The internet ad shows $1200/month, but a former neighbor still living there says the ad is old, and the azaela apartment is now renting for $1390/mo.  That is a 153% increase, and this is small compared to many others in Tampa, where almost all 1 bdrm apartments rented for less than $700/month 3 yrs ago.  There were no 1 bdrm apts for $1000/mo 3 yrs ago.

Here >  Take a  look >>





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## protectionist (Apr 25, 2022)

task0778 said:


> My own rent went up about 10% last year, inflation hits everybody including rental owners.


NOBODY'S rent is going up 10% around here. My rent increase last year (I moved New Years day) went from $600/mo to $850/mo (42% increase), and that is by far, the smallest increase I have heard of, to this day, in Tampa.


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## protectionist (Apr 25, 2022)

Concerned American said:


> This guys been whining about rent for six months.  He seems to think that rental owners should just do it out of the kindness of their hearts.  He doesn't understand that their costs go up along with everyone else.


HA HA HA. Oh, so the landlords just came upon "costs" necessitating 100%, 200%,
 300% rent increases huh ? What happened ? They just passed a law requiring all plumbing fixtures to be solid gold ?  
All apartments requiring original Picasso paintings ?
Wy di you keep talking about conventional rental scenarios ?.... when I'm talking about a scenario that has NEVER existed before, or anything close to it.


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## protectionist (Apr 25, 2022)

Concerned American said:


> Move there.  Rental owners are not  charities.  They don't owe you.  If you want to live there, pay the rent, apparently there are people who will or they couldn't charge those amounts.


I wouldnt live in New Your City right now, if you paid me $1000/day.


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## protectionist (Apr 25, 2022)

task0778 said:


> Added:  OK. I did a little research and some people are saying or have said in the past that their rent went up 300%.  Maybe that's true, but I doubt there are that many cases of such, probably instances where the rental property owner wants to sell the place and build something different on the site.  Which actually is their right although there may be some legal and zoning issues.


The 300% I mentioned is around the top of the increases (although there could be some even higher)  Increases of $600/month to $1800 are not at all rare.  Closer to common than rare. 200% increases quite common.


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## protectionist (Apr 25, 2022)

Concerned American said:


> Link?  Increases of that magnitude would not fly if people were either unable or unwilling to pay them.  That is called a free market, a product sells (or rents) for whatever the market will bear.


Has nothing to do with people living in the apartments (for many years). They're being evicted or moving out with nowhere to go. I was lucky to find an exceptionally nice (brand new) apartment complex (over 55 ; low income required)
Thousands of people are going homeless. Ask Metropoltan Ministries in Tampa. They'll tell you.

I don't believe HOUSING, being a fundamental human necessity, should be anywhere near the free market, and this current situation is the perfect example of why.  As a conservative Republican, I applauded Trump;s many deregulations of 2017, but this is a whole nother ballgame.

The reason why apartments renting at the rate s that they are is because we have a POTUs whose brains are falling out of his head, combined with him pandering to the progressive lunatics of his party.  This has him opening up the Mexican border (217K apprehensions of illegal aliens in March ; 67K gotaways), all of whom are being allowed in, and even airlifted to Tampa.  Many of these people are from vrious countries, are wealthy, and can afford high rents. The poor ones from Mexico, just cram a dozen people into an apartment, and split the rent.  So, increases of these magnitudes are flying.


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## Concerned American (Apr 25, 2022)

protectionist said:


> 1 bdrm apartments rented for less than $700/month 3 yrs ago.


That was three years ago and that was extremely low--rents were more than that anywhere in CA.  Tampa has just joined the real world .


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## protectionist (Apr 25, 2022)

Concerned American said:


> General inflation has increased by over 8% this year.  Fuel prices have increased over100% in the past year and you want to limit rental properties to 5%?  That is ridiculous.


8% would be OK.  But that's not the increase magnitude we're talking about here.  If my rent had been increases 8%, I would have not moved.  It was 42%, and that was the smallest hike I have ever heard of in the past 2 years here.


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## protectionist (Apr 25, 2022)

Concerned American said:


> Go take the loan out and buy a place.  Your housing costs will remain fixed for thirty years.  Of course you will have to pay for all of the upkeep and repairs and you'll have to pay the increased cost of those as dictated by inflation--then you can blame the people responsible--Brandon.


I've been blaming him since the beginning of this thread, and still am.


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## protectionist (Apr 25, 2022)

Concerned American said:


> CONT.  Then you can add the increased taxes that the democrats put on property as the value increases because, hey, you're a property owner--you can afford it.


I was looking to buy a house. Got pre-approved for a loan but just came up with a better deal.


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## protectionist (Apr 25, 2022)

Concerned American said:


> That was three years ago and that was extremely low--rents were more than that anywhere in CA.  Tampa has just joined the real world .


Tampa is (or was) the real world. California is lunatic land. Just compare Florida's new Stop WOKE Act with all the nutjob things going on every day in California, that loonlibs consider normal.

Here in Florida, we did not consider our rents  2/3 years ago to be low.  They were that way for years before Biden (worst president ever) came along.


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## Concerned American (Apr 25, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Has nothing to do with people living in the apartments (for many years). They're being evicted or moving out with nowhere to go. I was lucky to find an exceptionally nice (brand new) apartment complex (over 55 ; low income required)
> Thousands of people are going homeless. Ask Metropoltan Ministries in Tampa. They'll tell you.
> 
> I don't believe HOUSING, being a fundamental human necessity, should be anywhere near the free market, and this current situation is the perfect example of why.  As a conservative Republican, I applauded Trump;s many deregulations of 2017, but this is a whole nother ballgame.
> ...


While I agree with your description of the Biden admin, housing costs are increasing nationwide due to Clinton's loan policies and the bubble in 2008 and the lack of construction for 15 years.  Which has resulted in a housing shortage.  You should see the single family housing purchase price in Coeur d'Alene ID--2500 sq ft, 20 yr old const., $640K.  The cost of a sheet of poor quality plywood is $40.  These builders have to pay the price for materials and the purchaser has to pay that plus labor and reasonable profit markup.  The costs have to be passed onto the renter.  The old saw, "shit rolls down hill" comes home to roost.


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## Concerned American (Apr 25, 2022)

protectionist said:


> They were that way for years before Biden (worst president ever) came along.


It the democrats/globalists/WEF remain in power, we will all be in the same boat.  Real property will cease to be owned by private owners--they will be priced out and then taxed out for the few hangers on.  "YOU WILL OWN NOTHING AND YOU WILL BE HAPPY."


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## protectionist (Apr 25, 2022)

Concerned American said:


> While I agree with your description of the Biden admin, housing costs are increasing nationwide due to Clinton's loan policies and the bubble in 2008 and the lack of construction for 15 years.  Which has resulted in a housing shortage.  You should see the single family housing purchase price in Coeur d'Alene ID--2500 sq ft, 20 yr old const., $640K.  The cost of a sheet of poor quality plywood is $40.  These builders have to pay the price for materials and the purchaser has to pay that plus labor and reasonable profit markup.  The costs have to be passed onto the renter.  The old saw, "shit rolls down hill" comes home to roost.


I've moved on to other threads. Said all I need to say.





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Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador on Monday urged Latinos in the United States not to vote in November's midterm elections for politicians who have "mistreated" them, in response to a comment by former U.S. President Donald Trump.  Obrador is equating what he sees as mistreatment of...



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