# "Common sense gun control"



## M14 Shooter (Sep 5, 2021)

Top rifle:  AR15 carbine.   Available in all but the festates with draconian gun contril laws with nothing more than a quick call to the NICS
Bottom rifle:  AR15 SBR - short barreled rifle.   NFA weaoon, requires the same FBI investication, $200 tax stamp and local chielf lasw wnforcement officer approval as a M60 machine gun, grenade launcher, or PAK43 88mm anti-tank gun

If you ask the anti-gun left, they will tell you this is "common sense gun control".
They cannot demonstrate the necessity for or efficacy of the extra hurdles a law-abiding citizen must jump thru to buy the 2nd rifle, but they will PROMISE you if we don't have those additional restrictions, blood will run in the streets.


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## Darkwind (Sep 5, 2021)

There is no such thing at 'common sense' gun control.

In fact, it is a distinct lack of common sense to want to enact gun control.


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## White 6 (Sep 5, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> Top rifle:  AR15 carbine.   Available in all but the festates with draconian gun contril laws with nothing more than a quick call to the NICS
> Bottom rifle:  AR15 SBR - short barreled rifle.   NFA weaoon, requires the same FBI investication, $200 tax stamp and local chielf lasw wnforcement officer approval as a M60 machine gun, grenade launcher, or PAK43 88mm anti-tank gun
> 
> If you ask the anti-gun left, they will tell you this is "common sense gun control".
> ...


You can buy a better one, if you just buy the parts and build it yourself, and nobody asks you about the parts you are buying.


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 5, 2021)

White 6 said:


> You can buy a better one, if you just buy the parts and build it yourself, and nobody asks you about the parts you are buying.


any part that makes a firearm automatic is registered,


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## White 6 (Sep 5, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> any part that makes a firearm automatic is registered,


So, you can't buy an unregulated machine gun since 1934 and this is pissing you off?  Did it keep your dad or your granddad, or your great granddad up at night bitching about it, or did they think Al Capone, Machinegun Kelly and the mobsters of the roaring 20s did not need machine guns?  Maybe you want to jump in a "wayback" machine and go tell the mob back then they were messing it up for everybody.
Big deal.  So you can't ride around with a machine gun mounted on your jeep, as if you were in a third world country.  Get over it.


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 5, 2021)

White 6 said:


> So, you can't buy an unregulated machine gun since 1934 and this is pissing you off?  Did it keep your dad or your granddad, or your great granddad up at night bitching about it, or did they think Al Capone, Machinegun Kelly and the mobsters of the roaring 20s did not need machine guns?  Maybe you want to jump in a "wayback" machine and go tell the mob back then they were messing it up for everybody.
> Big deal.  So you can't ride around with a machine gun mounted on your jeep, as if you were in a third world country.  Get over it.


excuse me, where in that statement I made is any disagreement with the law on automatic weapons?


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## Batcat (Sep 6, 2021)

White 6 said:


> So, you can't buy an unregulated machine gun since 1934 and this is pissing you off?  Did it keep your dad or your granddad, or your great granddad up at night bitching about it, or did they think Al Capone, Machinegun Kelly and the mobsters of the roaring 20s did not need machine guns?  Maybe you want to jump in a "wayback" machine and go tell the mob back then they were messing it up for everybody.
> Big deal.  So you can't ride around with a machine gun mounted on your jeep, as if you were in a third world country.  Get over it.


The main thing a weapon that a fully automatic weapon does for a civilian is waste ammo.


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## M14 Shooter (Sep 6, 2021)

White 6 said:


> You can buy a better one, if you just buy the parts and build it yourself, and nobody asks you about the parts you are buying.


Sure.
That's not the point.


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## M14 Shooter (Sep 6, 2021)

White 6 said:


> So, you can't buy an unregulated machine gun since 1934 and this is pissing you off?


Machine guns have nothing to do with this, other tha the same laws that applly them also apply to the SBR in the pic.


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## whitehall (Sep 6, 2021)

The laws on the books are intended to control guns but the former, former president shipped about 3,000 illegal weapons to Mexican drug cartels and nobody was indicted or even fired when one of them turned up in the murder of a Border Patrol Officer. Who do we see about that?


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## Rigby5 (Sep 6, 2021)

whitehall said:


> The laws on the books are intended to control guns but the former, former president shipped about 3,000 illegal weapons to Mexican drug cartels and nobody was indicted or even fired when one of them turned up in the murder of a Border Patrol Officer. Who do we see about that?



And why do we care if people buy unregistered guns from China or the BATF?


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## Rigby5 (Sep 6, 2021)

The only common sense gun law is that you don't sell to minors.
If anyone can drive, buy flammables, buy toxins, etc., then guns are of minor concern.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Sep 6, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> any part that makes a firearm automatic is registered,


That's incorrect.  Here's a site where you can buy an automatic sear, no BGC, or anything...






						Sears | Sear Parts at Brownells
					

Brownells is your source for Sears,Sear Parts at Brownells parts and accessories. Shop our vast selection and save!



					www.brownells.com


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Sep 6, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> The only common sense gun law is that you don't sell to minors.
> If anyone can drive, buy flammables, buy toxins, etc., then guns are of minor concern.


When I got my first vehicle (78 F-250) at 16 y/o, I rolled with a S&W Model 39 in the glove box.  I don't see a problem with minors buying a gun.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Sep 6, 2021)

White 6 said:


> So, you can't buy an unregulated machine gun since 1934 and this is pissing you off?


Yes


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## White 6 (Sep 6, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> excuse me, where in that statement I made is any disagreement with the law on automatic weapons?


Excuse me.  You said "any part that makes a firearm automatic is registered," so I thought that was your complaint.  I did not know you were OK with that.  I am OK with that also.


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## Rigby5 (Sep 6, 2021)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> When I got my first vehicle (78 F-250) at 16 y/o, I rolled with a S&W Model 39 in the glove box.  I don't see a problem with minors buying a gun.



Actually I agree, but it depends on the minor and where.


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## White 6 (Sep 6, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> Sure.
> That's not the point.


So what is your point?  If you do not want to be recorded as buying a fire arm, don't be.  Building your own avoids that as it is assembled from interchangeable replacement parts.  Plus you get to pick the manufacturers, the metals involved, selecting part components you deem most important for your kind of shooting, putting your money where you want it and gaining an infinite better knowledge of the weapon you shoot along the way.


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## White 6 (Sep 6, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> Machine guns have nothing to do with this, other tha the same laws that applly them also apply to the SBR in the pic.


I guess you should have informed Sarge.  He is the one that brought up machine gun parts.
I am the guy that said build your own AR-15.


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## asaratis (Sep 6, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> They cannot demonstrate the necessity for or efficacy of the extra hurdles a law-abiding citizen must jump thru to buy the 2nd rifle, but they will PROMISE you if we don't have those additional restrictions, blood will run in the streets.


The useful idiots in the Democrat Party posit that "if we pass a law that restricts or impedes gun ownership, criminals will obey it".

The Democrat Party is chock full of loons.



Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> (78 F-250)


Agh!  The '78 F-250 is among the best PU trucks ever made.  I bought one brand new.  

400 CID, 4WD, Warn hubs, 4 speed floor shift (w/granny gear), 4:11 rear axle, 4:10 front axle, twin fuel tanks.


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 7, 2021)

White 6 said:


> Excuse me.  You said "any part that makes a firearm automatic is registered," so I thought that was your complaint.  I did not know you were OK with that.  I am OK with that also.


i agree that in the 30's we had a problem and that the law was needed, still is it doesnt ban auto's just regulates them.


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## White 6 (Sep 7, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> i agree that in the 30's we had a problem and that the law was needed, still is it doesnt ban auto's just regulates them.


For the most part that has been intelligent regulation that has worked.  Pretty rare for us to have a mass shooting with automatic weapons.  I'm good with that.


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## M14 Shooter (Sep 7, 2021)

White 6 said:


> So what is your point?


The  insanity of the law in question.


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## White 6 (Sep 7, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> The  insanity of the law in question.


The National Firearms Act of 1934?  Aren't you a little late to the party?  If you are wanting to kill a bunch of people, use a legal weapon like the rest of the nutballs.


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## M14 Shooter (Sep 7, 2021)

White 6 said:


> The National Firearms Act of 1934?  Aren't you a little late to the party?  If you are wanting to kill a bunch of people, use a legal weapon like the rest of the nutballs.


You choose to miss the point.
I will let you.


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 7, 2021)

White 6 said:


> The National Firearms Act of 1934?  Aren't you a little late to the party?  If you are wanting to kill a bunch of people, use a legal weapon like the rest of the nutballs.


his point is 3 round burst is not really full auto.


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## White 6 (Sep 7, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> his point is 3 round burst is not really full auto.


It is not much of a point.


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 7, 2021)

White 6 said:


> It is not much of a point.


well it is a major distinction, But probably not a good idea to change the rule could lead to other changes that would be bad,


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## asaratis (Sep 7, 2021)

A question for gun experts:

Except for range, muzzle energy and projectile count, what is the significant difference between a 3 shot burst from an AR and 9 #00 buckshot pellets fired from a 12 ga single shot shotgun?


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## woodwork201 (Sep 8, 2021)

White 6 said:


> You can buy a better one, if you just buy the parts and build it yourself, and nobody asks you about the parts you are buying.



Buying a short barrel can get you in prison even if you never put it on a gun.  Having a legal length rifle and being in possession of a barrel less than 16 inches or a short-barrelled upper that you never put on the rifle is called constructive possession.  You're giving ignorant, incorrect, advice when you say no one asks about the parts you are buying.  Here's a case where they did ask about the parts:









						Florida Man Arrested for Constructive Possession of an SBR
					

I have recently blogged about the issue of constructive possession of NFA firearms in my article NFA and Constructive Possession: Myth or Reality?. On August 27, 2009, Jesus Amador, Jr., was arrest…




					blog.princelaw.com
				




When I built my AR pistol, I had the lower fully assembled and had every other part to complete the gun before ordering the barrel.  Ordering the barrel first could have got me in a lot of trouble.   The strategy for building an SBR must be similar: get the stamp before ordering the barrel.


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## woodwork201 (Sep 8, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> excuse me, where in that statement I made is any disagreement with the law on automatic weapons?


That's a sad statement.  Perhaps you could edit that statement to add some disagreement with the law on automatic weapons or are you really a gun controller just like white6?

When all the gun-rights supporters are really gun controllers, the 2nd Amendment becomes just a suggestion.


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## woodwork201 (Sep 8, 2021)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> That's incorrect.  Here's a site where you can buy an automatic sear, no BGC, or anything...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just because someone sells it, doesn't make it legal.

26 U.S.C. §§ 5845(b):​
_The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, *any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.*_









						Autokeycard.com Seized By ATF, Owner Arrested For Selling A Drawing
					

The ATF raided and arrested Kristopher Justin Ervin, 41, for manufacturing machine guns. Ervin did not sell or make any firearms.




					www.ammoland.com


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## White 6 (Sep 8, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> Buying a short barrel can get you in prison even if you never put it on a gun.  Having a legal length rifle and being in possession of a barrel less than 16 inches or a short-barrelled upper that you never put on the rifle is called constructive possession.  You're giving ignorant, incorrect, advice when you say no one asks about the parts you are buying.  Here's a case where they did ask about the parts:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Both are readily sold, no questions online.  I went for an 18" barrel for better accuracy and I won't be kicking down any doors at my age if the balloon goes up.  I used 3 or 4 manufacturors and multiple online sellers.  I got the impression you could get anything you want, pretty much no questions asked.  In my case I was going totally legal, and just wanted to pick my components, some being more important for the way I shoot and maintain, than others.


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## woodwork201 (Sep 8, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> i agree that in the 30's we had a problem and that the law was needed, still is it doesnt ban auto's just regulates them.


So you don't support the Constitution but, instead, support infringement on the right to keep and bear arms based on your own personal sense of need.  Are you advising Biden on this so he knows whether or not you feel there's a need?

But if we needed the NFA in 1934 (which we didn't; murders were relatively lower in 1934 than they are today), then Chicago must certainly _need_ a gun ban to stop the killings there, right?

Gun controller.


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## woodwork201 (Sep 8, 2021)

White 6 said:


> Both are readily sold, no questions online.  I went for an 18" barrel for better accuracy and I won't be kicking down any doors at my age if the balloon goes up.  I used 3 or 4 manufacturors and multiple online sellers.  I got the impression you could get anything you want, pretty much no questions asked.  In my case I was going totally legal, and just wanted to pick my components, some being more important for the way I shoot and maintain, than others.


Both of what are sold?  We were discussing the auto sear you linked from Brownells.  Have you bought one?  Perhaps they would ask for your Class III stamp before shipping it.  Or, perhaps it's not what you think it is because the law is quite clear and the BATFE history clearly shows that they enforce that particular law.

Buy one.  It's only 24 dollars.  Show us that you can buy a piece that will turn your AR into a fully automatic.  Then, post a picture of you with your AR and with that part in your hand.  I'll forward it to the BATFE and then we'll know you're right and I'm wrong when you're still posting here.


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## White 6 (Sep 8, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> Both of what are sold?  We were discussing the auto sear you linked from Brownells.  Have you bought one?  Perhaps they would ask for your Class III stamp before shipping it.  Or, perhaps it's not what you think it is because the law is quite clear and the BATFE history clearly shows that they enforce that particular law.
> 
> Buy one.  It's only 24 dollars.  Show us that you can buy a piece that will turn your AR into a fully automatic.  Then, post a picture of you with your AR and with that part in your hand.  I'll forward it to the BATFE and then we'll know you're right and I'm wrong when you're still posting here.


I didn't link from Brownell's.  Must have been a different poster.  I was referring to the shorter barrels, to you or somebody saying that the shorter barrels were somehow illegal.  I have shopped Brownells, and they have good quality names, but usually you can get the exact same less expensive.
I am not and have not been in the market for a sear and other components to change my weapon to full auto or even 3 shot auto.   It is another capability you only need if you are going to kick in doors, spray and pray, putting a lot of rounds in a small enclosed area.  No matter how bad it gets, I am not going to have to do that.  If spraying a silhouetted target at 200 meters you will probably miss a lot more than you will hit.  I may not waste as many rounds downrange as fast, but I never miss at 200, even with iron sights.  The probability of me, needing to engage past that is low, unless hunting or on the range practicing.  If you got 30 guys, scared shitless, because they are being engaged by a machine gun and holding up their avenue of approach,  OK.  If all of them put a bunch of rounds downrange, they can definitely suppress or take it out.  I don't do that anymore.  I don't even teach it anymore, as I am retired.  I sight, spotweld, aim, control my breathing and squeeze while holding on target.  Modifying unless you have the proper credential is illegal and wasteful of ammo. I am paying about 52 cents a round.  I can blow plenty of money on a Saturday without emptying 30 round magazines with 1 pull of the trigger.  With 18 inch barrel and scope, i can reach out and touch the target while the spray and pray guy might not even scare the target if the target has been shot at before.  I had a buddy, that set up a hillbilly range for paramilitary wannabe cowboys and there were a lot of full auto weapons.   He put quarter pound sticks of TNT on a berm at maybe 50 meters, maybe less.  He made a pile of cash selling ammo that day, and that was years ago when ammo was cheap.  The people he had there were people that couldn't be trusted with a potato gun.  I left, asking my onetime friend when he became such a fkup.


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## ProfessorHawthorne (Sep 10, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> i agree that in the 30's we had a problem and that the law was needed, still is it doesnt ban auto's just regulates them.



That's true.  And until the FOPA of 1986, people could purchase new automatic weapons with the $200 tax stamp.  The Hugh's amendment, tacked on to the FOPA. eliminated the option to purchase a newly  manufactured auto.  The only autos that can be purchased now are the ones that were in the registry up to 1986.  And as might be expected, those selling pre-86 autos command a monster price.  Outside of Hugh's, the FOPA did a lot of good stuff for gun owners.

Cheers


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 10, 2021)

Ya I disagree with the ban on new weapons.


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## ThunderKiss1965 (Sep 10, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> Top rifle:  AR15 carbine.   Available in all but the festates with draconian gun contril laws with nothing more than a quick call to the NICS
> Bottom rifle:  AR15 SBR - short barreled rifle.   NFA weaoon, requires the same FBI investication, $200 tax stamp and local chielf lasw wnforcement officer approval as a M60 machine gun, grenade launcher, or PAK43 88mm anti-tank gun
> 
> If you ask the anti-gun left, they will tell you this is "common sense gun control".
> ...


Not sure how much the anti-tank weapon would cost but the M-60 would set you back anywhere from 30-70k .


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## Rumpboogie (Sep 12, 2021)

Gun control means "USE BOTH HANDS AND DON'T MISS.".


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## maybelooking (Sep 14, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> So you don't support the Constitution but, instead, support infringement on the right to keep and bear arms based on your own personal sense of need.  Are you advising Biden on this so he knows whether or not you feel there's a need?
> 
> But if we needed the NFA in 1934 (which we didn't; murders were relatively lower in 1934 than they are today), then Chicago must certainly _need_ a gun ban to stop the killings there, right?
> 
> Gun controller.


Bravo!!!
The 2nd is very clear.  The laws that have been passed over the years that violate it are absolutely unconstitutional.  If you want to change it,  do it the way the founders intended.


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## woodwork201 (Sep 14, 2021)

White 6 said:


> I didn't link from Brownell's.  Must have been a different poster.  I was referring to the shorter barrels, to you or somebody saying that the shorter barrels were somehow illegal.  I have shopped Brownells, and they have good quality names, but usually you can get the exact same less expensive.
> I am not and have not been in the market for a sear and other components to change my weapon to full auto or even 3 shot auto.   It is another capability you only need if you are going to kick in doors, spray and pray, putting a lot of rounds in a small enclosed area.  No matter how bad it gets, I am not going to have to do that.  If spraying a silhouetted target at 200 meters you will probably miss a lot more than you will hit.  I may not waste as many rounds downrange as fast, but I never miss at 200, even with iron sights.  The probability of me, needing to engage past that is low, unless hunting or on the range practicing.  If you got 30 guys, scared shitless, because they are being engaged by a machine gun and holding up their avenue of approach,  OK.  If all of them put a bunch of rounds downrange, they can definitely suppress or take it out.  I don't do that anymore.  I don't even teach it anymore, as I am retired.  I sight, spotweld, aim, control my breathing and squeeze while holding on target.  Modifying unless you have the proper credential is illegal and wasteful of ammo. I am paying about 52 cents a round.  I can blow plenty of money on a Saturday without emptying 30 round magazines with 1 pull of the trigger.  With 18 inch barrel and scope, i can reach out and touch the target while the spray and pray guy might not even scare the target if the target has been shot at before.  I had a buddy, that set up a hillbilly range for paramilitary wannabe cowboys and there were a lot of full auto weapons.   He put quarter pound sticks of TNT on a berm at maybe 50 meters, maybe less.  He made a pile of cash selling ammo that day, and that was years ago when ammo was cheap.  The people he had there were people that couldn't be trusted with a potato gun.  I left, asking my onetime friend when he became such a fkup.



Wild Bill Kelsoe linked the Sear.  Your reference to "both are still sold" led me to believe you were talking about that and barrels.  My mistake.

So let's focus on the shorter barrels.  They are sold.  Buy one and don't  have a pistol.  Post a picture of it anywhere near your rifle.  I'll send you one, just one, care package in prison.

Please do not suggest that people illegally modify their rifle with a short barrel.  It's against the site rules, first, to suggest committing a crime.  Second, some fool will believe you and they'll also end up in prison.


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## Flash (Sep 14, 2021)

White 6 said:


> So, you can't buy an unregulated machine gun since 1934 and this is pissing you off?  Did it keep your dad or your granddad, or your great granddad up at night bitching about it, or did they think Al Capone, Machinegun Kelly and the mobsters of the roaring 20s did not need machine guns?  Maybe you want to jump in a "wayback" machine and go tell the mob back then they were messing it up for everybody.
> Big deal.  So you can't ride around with a machine gun mounted on your jeep, as if you were in a third world country.  Get over it.




I have a Class III M-16.  I had to pay that filthy ass $200 tax when I got it back in the 1970s and that was a lot of money.

Having that firearm doesn't make me a third world terrorist.

However, the filthy ass NFA laws makes the shitheads that don't want Americans citizens to have them oppressive anti Constitutional assholes.  Anti Right to keep and bear arms Karens.


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## woodwork201 (Sep 14, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Ya I disagree with the ban on new weapons.


Unfortunately, it is people like you, those who profess to be gun rights supporters but who, in reality, are gun controllers, that give comfort and cover to gun controllers.  You tell them that infringements are OK, that the Constitution is just a suggestion, and then all that's left is to negotiate on what we can have and how far they toss the Constitution.  You've already agreed that it's OK for them to do it.  And you took an oath.


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## Flash (Sep 14, 2021)

White 6 said:


> For the most part that has been intelligent regulation that has worked.  Pretty rare for us to have a mass shooting with automatic weapons.  I'm good with that.




I saw a report a few years ago that said there has only been one killing with a machine gun since WWII.  It was an off duty cop in Massachusetts that came home and found his wife in bed with another guy.  He grabbed was so pissed he used his Class III machine gun to blow the bastard away.   A crime of passion.


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## Flash (Sep 14, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> i agree that in the 30's we had a problem and that the law was needed, still is it doesnt ban auto's just regulates them.


They are fucking banned now unless they are that fucking register.


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## Flash (Sep 14, 2021)

maybelooking said:


> Bravo!!!
> The 2nd is very clear.  The laws that have been passed over the years that violate it are absolutely unconstitutional.  If you want to change it,  do it the way the founders intended.




It is amazing how these stupid uneducated Moon Bats can't understand what "shall not be infringe" means.   It is like they are brain dead.


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## White 6 (Sep 14, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> Wild Bill Kelsoe linked the Sear.  Your reference to "both are still sold" led me to believe you were talking about that and barrels.  My mistake.
> 
> So let's focus on the shorter barrels.  They are sold.  Buy one and don't  have a pistol.  Post a picture of it anywhere near your rifle.  I'll send you one, just one, care package in prison.
> 
> Please do not suggest that people illegally modify their rifle with a short barrel.  It's against the site rules, first, to suggest committing a crime.  Second, some fool will believe you and they'll also end up in prison.


I didn't suggest it.  I personally do not care what modification they make or if they have to go to jail and lose everything, for their stupidity.  Like I said, mine are all legal and I am not in the market for illegal modifications.  At my age, short barrels do not interest me, as they are really on good for clearing rooms where confinement of swing is a problem.  I am not going to kick in doors and clear rooms anymore.  I am more of a distance guy.


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## White 6 (Sep 14, 2021)

Flash said:


> I have a Class III M-16.  I had to pay that filthy ass $200 tax when I got it back in the 1970s and that was a lot of money.
> 
> Having that firearm doesn't make me a third world terrorist.
> 
> However, the filthy ass NFA laws makes the shitheads that don't want Americans citizens to have them oppressive anti Constitutional assholes.  Anti Right to keep and bear arms Karens.


I am glad.  I no wish to talk with third world terrorist.  I have not even talked with any foreign national clandestine operatives, since probably 1994 or 5.
I have no problem with the laws written in the 1930s to curb the use of machine guns in the hands of gangster of the roaring 20s.  So far before I was born they do not bother me.  They predate laws against smoking pot, for Pete's sake.  I don't want machine guns on the street any more than my great-grandfathers did.  
Most knuckleheads cannot be trusted to handle them responsibly or even the guns that are legal.  Drive down any country road out in the county and look where the morons shoot road sign and do it mostly at night from their pickup truck.  Go to any gun range and observe the weapons handling for a day when it is not friends and acquaintances on you left and right.  I had to clear a hand gun for my next door neighbor, and he was actually licensed to carry, having completed training by some moron.  Some crazy lady in Chicago just shot her 12 year old son, yesterday over a missing memory card.  It is people like that, screwing it up for everybody, just like the gangsters screwed up being able to casually own a machine gun back in 1934.
You are probably fine.  You not only paid the money, but were background checked, not in trouble with the law and no history of violent assaults.  I venture to say, you have had some training, and you have done nothing stupid with your weapons since the 70s to have your rights curtailed or removed.  Thanks for being a relatively normal responsible individual.  But, don't think people like you are the average anymore.  You're not.  I have no problem with people having to somewhat prove they are not a danger to themselves and others before they get to carry on the street or have access, equal to yours, or even mine, and I do not have a class III certificate.


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## White 6 (Sep 14, 2021)

Flash said:


> I saw a report a few years ago that said there has only been one killing with a machine gun since WWII.  It was an off duty cop in Massachusetts that came home and found his wife in bed with another guy.  He grabbed was so pissed he used his Class III machine gun to blow the bastard away.   A crime of passion.


I hope he was a true sportsman and got them both on the rise.


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## Flash (Sep 14, 2021)

White 6 said:


> I am glad.  I no wish to talk with third world terrorist.  I have not even talked with any foreign national clandestine operatives, since probably 1994 or 5.
> I have no problem with the laws written in the 1930s to curb the use of machine guns in the hands of gangster of the roaring 20s.  So far before I was born they do not bother me.  They predate laws against smoking pot, for Pete's sake.  I don't want machine guns on the street any more than my great-grandfathers did.
> Most knuckleheads cannot be trusted to handle them responsibly or even the guns that are legal.  Drive down any country road out in the county and look where the morons shoot road sign and do it mostly at night from their pickup truck.  Go to any gun range and observe the weapons handling for a day when it is not friends and acquaintances on you left and right.  I had to clear a hand gun for my next door neighbor, and he was actually licensed to carry, having completed training by some moron.  Some crazy lady in Chicago just shot her 12 year old son, yesterday over a missing memory card.  It is people like that, screwing it up for everybody, just like the gangsters screwed up being able to casually own a machine gun back in 1934.
> You are probably fine.  You not only paid the money, but were background checked, not in trouble with the law and no history of violent assaults.  I venture to say, you have had some training, and you have done nothing stupid with your weapons since the 70s to have your rights curtailed or removed.  Thanks for being a relatively normal responsible individual.  But, don't think people like you are the average anymore.  You're not.  I have no problem with people having to somewhat prove they are not a danger to themselves and others before they get to carry on the street or have access, equal to yours, or even mine, and I do not have a class III certificate.




Go look up the _Miller_ case.

The Supreme Court determined that the Second applies to firearms in general use by the military.


----------



## White 6 (Sep 14, 2021)

Flash said:


> Go look up the _Miller_ case.
> 
> The Supreme Court determined that the Second applies to firearms in general use by the military.


No.  I'm satisfied with my evaluation of the issue.  Tell you what, though.  I'll go along with the Supreme Court.  How bout that?


----------



## Rumpboogie (Sep 14, 2021)

Flash said:


> Go look up the _Miller_ case.
> 
> The Supreme Court determined that the Second applies to firearms in general use by the military.


Well, the Supreme Farce is completely full of *BULLSHIT.*


----------



## Flash (Sep 15, 2021)

White 6 said:


> No.  I'm satisfied with my evaluation of the issue.  Tell you what, though.  I'll go along with the Supreme Court.  How bout that?




Miller lost the case for two reasons.

First he did not show for the trail.

Second, the Supreme Court made an error of fact.  Miller was found guilty for violating the NFA because he had a sawed off shotgun.  In their ruling the Supreme Court Justices said that the Second applied to firearms in general use by the military.  However, their error was saying that a sawed off shotgun was not used by the military.  The US used sawed off shotguns in WWI so an error was made.   Otherwise he would have been found innocent.

When the filthy ass anti gun nuts claim that the Second does not apply to military type weapons then they are simply wrong.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Sep 15, 2021)

Miller was dead by the time the case went before the SC,


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## Flash (Sep 15, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Miller was dead by the time the case went before the SC,




That doesn't change the fact that the Court made the determination that the Second applies to military type weapons.  It is case law now.

Many legal scholars are convinced that if the plaintiff had put on a vigorous case the NFA would have been overturned.

There are now five firearms cases that the Supreme Court are considering hearing.  If they accept the cases and the rulings go the way that is suspected then State and Local gun regulations will be pretty much gutted.


----------



## woodwork201 (Sep 17, 2021)

White 6 said:


> I am glad.  I no wish to talk with third world terrorist.  I have not even talked with any foreign national clandestine operatives, since probably 1994 or 5.
> I have no problem with the laws written in the 1930s to curb the use of machine guns in the hands of gangster of the roaring 20s.  So far before I was born they do not bother me.  They predate laws against smoking pot, for Pete's sake.  I don't want machine guns on the street any more than my great-grandfathers did.
> Most knuckleheads cannot be trusted to handle them responsibly or even the guns that are legal.  Drive down any country road out in the county and look where the morons shoot road sign and do it mostly at night from their pickup truck.  Go to any gun range and observe the weapons handling for a day when it is not friends and acquaintances on you left and right.  I had to clear a hand gun for my next door neighbor, and he was actually licensed to carry, having completed training by some moron.  Some crazy lady in Chicago just shot her 12 year old son, yesterday over a missing memory card.  It is people like that, screwing it up for everybody, just like the gangsters screwed up being able to casually own a machine gun back in 1934.
> You are probably fine.  You not only paid the money, but were background checked, not in trouble with the law and no history of violent assaults.  I venture to say, you have had some training, and you have done nothing stupid with your weapons since the 70s to have your rights curtailed or removed.  Thanks for being a relatively normal responsible individual.  But, don't think people like you are the average anymore.  You're not.  I have no problem with people having to somewhat prove they are not a danger to themselves and others before they get to carry on the street or have access, equal to yours, or even mine, and I do not have a class III certificate.


Flash said he got his M16 in the 70s - 40 to 50 years ago.  No assumptions could or should be made about his current mental state based on a background check from that long ago.  I'm not saying he's a nutcase but your reasoning for saying he is not is completely flawed and demonstrates the flaw in the entire gun control idea.  Stephen Paddock had no criminal record before the shooting in Las Vegas.


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## woodwork201 (Sep 17, 2021)

White 6 said:


> No.  I'm satisfied with my evaluation of the issue.  Tell you what, though.  I'll go along with the Supreme Court.  How bout that?


You'll go along with Slavery?


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## White 6 (Sep 18, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> Flash said he got his M16 in the 70s - 40 to 50 years ago.  No assumptions could or should be made about his current mental state based on a background check from that long ago.  I'm not saying he's a nutcase but your reasoning for saying he is not is completely flawed and demonstrates the flaw in the entire gun control idea.  Stephen Paddock had no criminal record before the shooting in Las Vegas.


Agreed, but it is a baseline, that at one time he was a normal gun owner and very well may still be, as he hasn't made himself famous and lost those gun rights.  There are people out there with all sorts of fully automatic weapons that were and are totally unknown that were and are nut balls that would never pass any kind of check.  
I have greater respect for anybody that played it by the rules.  I have seen and met some of these nut balls, first hand.  You don't really want to be anywhere near them, and they deserve no respect for their 2A stance, weapons handling, safety or general attitude, whatsoever.


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## White 6 (Sep 18, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> You'll go along with Slavery?


No. Why?


----------



## Cellblock2429 (Sep 18, 2021)

White 6 said:


> So, you can't buy an unregulated machine gun since 1934 and this is pissing you off?  Did it keep your dad or your granddad, or your great granddad up at night bitching about it, or did they think Al Capone, Machinegun Kelly and the mobsters of the roaring 20s did not need machine guns?  Maybe you want to jump in a "wayback" machine and go tell the mob back then they were messing it up for everybody.
> Big deal.  So you can't ride around with a machine gun mounted on your jeep, as if you were in a third world country.  Get over it.


/——/ Gun grabbing libtards always use extreme examples to justify their agenda. Oh, didn’t your boy just hand over jeeps with mounted machine guns to the Taliban?


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## White 6 (Sep 18, 2021)

Cellblock2429 said:


> /——/ Gun grabbing libtards always use extreme examples to justify their agenda. Oh, didn’t your boy just hand over jeeps with mounted machine guns to the Taliban?


I'm not grabbing jack, I just don't support your all the guns for all without regulation of any kind whatsoever, as it is not what the founding fathers intended, and they certainly did not envision the world in which we live.  I had a dumbass neighbor empty a full magazine in the air, next door when he was drunk.  I didn't call the cops.  I asked him what went through his mine when he got this dumbass idea, and told him this was one dumbass mistake he won't have to make again anytime soon.  When the cop came because somebody else call, I covered saying we were out because we heard it to and to let us know if the find the asshole.
Same guy called me, somebody was inside the empty house across the street, wanted me to back him up.  We went looking the place over, twice I had to caution him about his weapons management as he had me in the lead and could not quit waving it around and crossing his tube across my back, on the move in the dark.  Nothing found but a raccoon on the fence.  We got back to his house, he asked me to unload it for him, as there was a round in the chamber and he didn't trust himself to clear the weapon without shooting something.  Good Grief!  
Some people are too stupid to be trusted with hand guns, much less full automatic weapons and I say that as somebody that has run every kind of range you can think of for half my life.  I hope you don't get your way.  A lot of people that want it, aren't fit to have it.  Just sayin..........


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## woodwork201 (Sep 18, 2021)

White 6 said:


> I didn't suggest it.  I personally do not care what modification they make or if they have to go to jail and lose everything, for their stupidity.  Like I said, mine are all legal and I am not in the market for illegal modifications.  At my age, short barrels do not interest me, as they are really on good for clearing rooms where confinement of swing is a problem.  I am not going to kick in doors and clear rooms anymore.  I am more of a distance guy.



Well, Elmer, that is exactly why we will likely lose our gun rights one day what's left of my lifetime - and I'm old.  Too many people like you who pretend to support gun rights but you're OK with whatever they do as long as it doesn't interfere with what you like to do with your guns.

and when they came for me, there was no one left to call...


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## woodwork201 (Sep 18, 2021)

White 6 said:


> No. Why?


Well, the Supreme Court once defended it.  And you support the Supreme Court.  I was just wondering if that was an absolute support or a selective support.

I support them, too, but it's a very selective support.  Their opinions make for some interesting reading and are indicative of the thoughts of learned men (and women).  They are not, though, Gods.  Their opinions are nothing but opinions.  That every case is not 9-0 proves that learned people can have differing opinions.  Something becomes, in the opinion of the court, constitutional simply based on which presidents appointed whom to the courts.


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## White 6 (Sep 18, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> Well, Elmer, that is exactly why we will likely lose our gun rights one day what's left of my lifetime - and I'm old.  Too many people like you who pretend to support gun rights but you're OK with whatever they do as long as it doesn't interfere with what you like to do with your guns.
> 
> and when they came for me, there was no one left to call...


Go to sleep grand paw.  Get yourself a class III ticket if you want class III hardware or move to a 3rd world country.  Don't try to create on here.


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Sep 29, 2021)

White 6 said:


> So, you can't buy an unregulated machine gun since 1934 and this is pissing you off?  Did it keep your dad or your granddad, or your great granddad up at night bitching about it, or did they think Al Capone, Machinegun Kelly and the mobsters of the roaring 20s did not need machine guns?  Maybe you want to jump in a "wayback" machine and go tell the mob back then they were messing it up for everybody.
> Big deal.  So you can't ride around with a machine gun mounted on your jeep, as if you were in a third world country.  Get over it.


We have the lovely 18th Amendment to thank for all that gun violence.   Black markets tend to get that way.

Make something illegal that people want and you produce all sorts of evil monsters ready to kill anyone who gets in their way.

The 18th Amendment followed by the 1934 NFA are two classic examples of government being both the cause of, and the solution to all of life's problems.


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## White 6 (Sep 29, 2021)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> We have the lovely 18th Amendment to thank for all that gun violence.   Black markets tend to get that way.
> 
> Make something illegal that people want and you produce all sorts of evil monsters ready to kill anyone who gets in their way.
> 
> The 18th Amendment followed by the 1934 NFA are two classic examples of government being both the cause of, and the solution to all of life's problems.


Prohibition was indeed stupid, just like Federal laws on marijuana.  Full auto machine guns have no place in a stable, yet crowed society and indeed should be regulated.  Regulation is just another tool, but does not infringe on legitimate uses of personal weapons by the vast, the vast majority of Americans.  Don't expect me to cry, that you can't mount an M-60 on your pickup truck, on the streets.


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## woodwork201 (Sep 29, 2021)

White 6 said:


> Prohibition was indeed stupid, just like Federal laws on marijuana.  Full auto machine guns have no place in a stable, yet crowed society and indeed should be regulated.  Regulation is just another tool, but does not infringe on legitimate uses of personal weapons by the vast, the vast majority of Americans.  Don't expect me to cry, that you can't mount an M-60 on your pickup truck, on the streets.


There has been no communist country in the history of communist countries where the people didn't cry out for the government to take their guns away for their own protection and that did not later wish they had their guns because it was their government they ended up fighting.


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## White 6 (Sep 29, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> There has been no communist country in the history of communist countries where the people didn't cry out for the government to take their guns away for their own protection and that did not later wish they had their guns because it was their government they ended up fighting.


Who cares?  You said yourself communist countries.  That lets us out.  Don't worry you can't carry machine guns on the streets.  You need to worry more about declarations of emergency after natural disaster, such as Katrina, where the state went into nieghborhoods, subdivisions, even gated Mcmansion  communities, stripping homeowners of  normal everyday handguns, rifles and shotguns, using Bush's Federally actvated NG as backup for the state police, and local police taking away their weapons.  Reading of the confiscation is easy to look up.  Try finding where they ever gave them back.


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## justinacolmena (Sep 29, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> They cannot demonstrate the necessity for or efficacy of the extra hurdles a law-abiding citizen must jump thru to buy the 2nd rifle, but they will PROMISE you if we don't have those additional restrictions, blood will run in the streets.


Hammer-and-sickle red commie police unions, Proud Boys, Three-Percenters, Oath Keepers, and Thin-Blue-Line Flaggers are all on a blood-oath gun control vendetta of labor union solidarity to keep guns out of the hands of rival gang members.


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## woodwork201 (Sep 29, 2021)

White 6 said:


> Who cares?  You said yourself communist countries.  That lets us out.  Don't worry you can't carry machine guns on the streets.  You need to worry more about declarations of emergency after natural disaster, such as Katrina, where the state went into nieghborhoods, subdivisions, even gated Mcmansion  communities, stripping homeowners of  normal everyday handguns, rifles and shotguns, using Bush's Federally actvated NG as backup for the state police, and local police taking away their weapons.  Reading of the confiscation is easy to look up.  Try finding where they ever gave them back.



Look at 3.5 trillion advertised, closer to double that in reality, socialst, green  new deal bills in Congress.  We're two elections from unrestrained socialism.  If the Democrats use fake mail-in ballots to win the next two elections, if they get a majority in the Senate, we'll be on the track to the same thing as Venezuela and Australia.  And people like you will talk about how great things are in the USSA for a decade or two.  And then, when there's no toilet paper except for the rich; no milk, no food, you'll be leading the cry to get our guns back - and not just our hunting guns.


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## White 6 (Sep 29, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> Look at 3.5 trillion advertised, closer to double that in reality, socialst, green  new deal bills in Congress.  We're two elections from unrestrained socialism.  If the Democrats use fake mail-in ballots to win the next two elections, if they get a majority in the Senate, we'll be on the track to the same thing as Venezuela and Australia.  And people like you will talk about how great things are in the USSA for a decade or two.  And then, when there's no toilet paper except for the rich; no milk, no food, you'll be leading the cry to get our guns back - and not just our hunting guns.


If you can't get anywhere on the thread subject, you jump ship to derail the thread to some other topic?  If that is your plan, why respond to me, speaking on topic?


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## woodwork201 (Oct 1, 2021)

White 6 said:


> If you can't get anywhere on the thread subject, you jump ship to derail the thread to some other topic?  If that is your plan, why respond to me, speaking on topic?



I related it back to the thread.  You, along with the Communists  and Marxists in the United States, want more gun control.  You tried to imply that the history of communism and gun control in communist countries doesn't apply here.  But when we become a communist country then the history of communist countries, including their historical gun control agendas, including the history of citizens of those countries either fighting with rakes and shovels for their freedom, or being unable to fight at all for their freedom, will be important to the United States.

You just might be stupid enough to believe that gun control and AR-15 bans are about public safety but I don't think you are; you tell me.  If you're not that stupid then you, along with the Communists in Congress and behind the scenes in the United States, know that gun control is not at all about reducing crime or public safety.  It's wholly about government safety and creating a disarmed population in order to further their leftist agenda in safety.

By the way, Federal law and many states now have laws that prevent Katrina-style confiscations.  Of course all of that was unnecessary because the Constitution already forbade Katrina-style confiscations - even before Katrina.  I do not at all fear losing my guns in a Katrina-style confiscation.  On the other hand, the confiscators, should it ever again come to that, should fear trying to get my guns.


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## 2aguy (Oct 2, 2021)

White 6 said:


> I'm not grabbing jack, I just don't support your all the guns for all without regulation of any kind whatsoever, as it is not what the founding fathers intended, and they certainly did not envision the world in which we live.  I had a dumbass neighbor empty a full magazine in the air, next door when he was drunk.  I didn't call the cops.  I asked him what went through his mine when he got this dumbass idea, and told him this was one dumbass mistake he won't have to make again anytime soon.  When the cop came because somebody else call, I covered saying we were out because we heard it to and to let us know if the find the asshole.
> Same guy called me, somebody was inside the empty house across the street, wanted me to back him up.  We went looking the place over, twice I had to caution him about his weapons management as he had me in the lead and could not quit waving it around and crossing his tube across my back, on the move in the dark.  Nothing found but a raccoon on the fence.  We got back to his house, he asked me to unload it for him, as there was a round in the chamber and he didn't trust himself to clear the weapon without shooting something.  Good Grief!
> Some people are too stupid to be trusted with hand guns, much less full automatic weapons and I say that as somebody that has run every kind of range you can think of for half my life.  I hope you don't get your way.  A lot of people that want it, aren't fit to have it.  Just sayin..........




And yet you went out with that neighbor and covered for him........you should be disarmed as well.........

How about that......just like a gun grabber I remove your Right to Keep and bear arms...


----------



## White 6 (Oct 2, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> I related it back to the thread.  You, along with the Communists  and Marxists in the United States, want more gun control.  You tried to imply that the history of communism and gun control in communist countries doesn't apply here.  But when we become a communist country then the history of communist countries, including their historical gun control agendas, including the history of citizens of those countries either fighting with rakes and shovels for their freedom, or being unable to fight at all for their freedom, will be important to the United States.
> 
> You just might be stupid enough to believe that gun control and AR-15 bans are about public safety but I don't think you are; you tell me.  If you're not that stupid then you, along with the Communists in Congress and behind the scenes in the United States, know that gun control is not at all about reducing crime or public safety.  It's wholly about government safety and creating a disarmed population in order to further their leftist agenda in safety.
> 
> By the way, Federal law and many states now have laws that prevent Katrina-style confiscations.  Of course all of that was unnecessary because the Constitution already forbade Katrina-style confiscations - even before Katrina.  I do not at all fear losing my guns in a Katrina-style confiscation.  On the other hand, the confiscators, should it ever again come to that, should fear trying to get my guns.


Out of 3 paragraphs, the 3rd is the only one I view as realistic in this country, but that could be because I do not live in an area that has ever had a Katrina style emergency.  At my age, I agree with last sentence 100%, as I have less to lose at my age.  I suspect younger people might be more compliant, as they were after Katrina.


----------



## White 6 (Oct 2, 2021)

2aguy said:


> And yet you went out with that neighbor and covered for him........you should be disarmed as well.........
> 
> How about that......just like a gun grabber I remove your Right to Keep and bear arms...


Not likely to happen, as have conducted my life in a conservative manner ever since early military, days, never in trouble, never a rebel rouser, often volunteering to help fellow Americans in a pinch going back to my teen years sometimes at risk to myself, highly trained and qualified, a known quantity to military, and security/intel agencies.


----------



## woodwork201 (Oct 2, 2021)

White 6 said:


> I'm not grabbing jack, I just don't support your all the guns for all without regulation of any kind whatsoever, as it is not what the founding fathers intended, and they certainly did not envision the world in which we live.  I had a dumbass neighbor empty a full magazine in the air, next door when he was drunk.  I didn't call the cops.  I asked him what went through his mine when he got this dumbass idea, and told him this was one dumbass mistake he won't have to make again anytime soon.  When the cop came because somebody else call, I covered saying we were out because we heard it to and to let us know if the find the asshole.
> Same guy called me, somebody was inside the empty house across the street, wanted me to back him up.  We went looking the place over, twice I had to caution him about his weapons management as he had me in the lead and could not quit waving it around and crossing his tube across my back, on the move in the dark.  Nothing found but a raccoon on the fence.  We got back to his house, he asked me to unload it for him, as there was a round in the chamber and he didn't trust himself to clear the weapon without shooting something.  Good Grief!
> Some people are too stupid to be trusted with hand guns, much less full automatic weapons and I say that as somebody that has run every kind of range you can think of for half my life.  I hope you don't get your way.  A lot of people that want it, aren't fit to have it.  Just sayin..........





2aguy said:


> And yet you went out with that neighbor and covered for him........you should be disarmed as well.........
> 
> How about that......just like a gun grabber I remove your Right to Keep and bear arms...


2aguy, you make a great point and I completely missed it when I read white6's confession.  

white6 has openly confessed to committing a felony by intentionally lying to the police engaged in the investigation of a crime.  That's lying to the police and obstruction of justice.  Depending on his state, that could be up to 15 years in prison for lying and another 10 for obstruction.  By the very laws he supports, he no longer has the right to keep and bear arms.  All that's left is to report his crime to the FBI and watch it happen.  But, since I don't believe a word he said, I won't report it.  I wonder if he wants to insist that it's true that he committed a felony.


----------



## woodwork201 (Oct 2, 2021)

White 6 said:


> Not likely to happen, as have conducted my life in a conservative manner ever since early military, days, never in trouble, never a rebel rouser, often volunteering to help fellow Americans in a pinch going back to my teen years sometimes at risk to myself, highly trained and qualified, a known quantity to military, and security/intel agencies.


Well, that's a fucking lie, isn't it?  You openly admitted to committing multiple felonies.  Do the military, security, and intel agencies know you're a felon?


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 2, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> 2aguy, you make a great point and I completely missed it when I read white6's confession.
> 
> white6 has openly confessed to committing a felony by intentionally lying to the police engaged in the investigation of a crime.  That's lying to the police and obstruction of justice.  Depending on his state, that could be up to 15 years in prison for lying and another 10 for obstruction.  By the very laws he supports, he no longer has the right to keep and bear arms.  All that's left is to report his crime to the FBI and watch it happen.  But, since I don't believe a word he said, I won't report it.  I wonder if he wants to insist that it's true that he committed a felony.




Yep.....and he sits in judgement of other gun owners who have done nothing close to what he did...


----------



## woodwork201 (Oct 2, 2021)

White 6 said:


> Out of 3 paragraphs, the 3rd is the only one I view as realistic in this country, but that could be because I do not live in an area that has ever had a Katrina style emergency.  At my age, I agree with last sentence 100%, as I have less to lose at my age.  I suspect younger people might be more compliant, as they were after Katrina.


So you don't believe what I said about AR-15 bans not being for public safety?  You think Biden, and the Mayor of Chicago, and all other gun controllers care about public safety?  Then why aren't they enforcing the gun laws we have?  Why are they letting criminals who used guns in their crimes, who are forbidden from possessing guns, back out on the streets, dropping charges or giving very light sentences, and no bail before trial? 

Taking my AR-15 does not do a thing to save a baby in Chicago or Gary, Indiana.  Harsh prison sentences, in prisons with harsh conditions, would go very far to reduce the number of dead babies in Chicago.  Biden, Mayor Lightfoot, and all the gun controllers, including you, don't give a shit about public safety and gun control; you only want to disarm those who represent a potential threat to tyrannical, socialist, government.


----------



## woodwork201 (Oct 2, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Yep.....and he sits in judgement of other gun owners who have done nothing close to what he did...


Projecting his own crimes onto other gun owners.  Since he's a criminal with a gun he assumes all gun owners are criminals, equally dishonest, dishonorable, untrustworthy, as himself.


----------



## White 6 (Oct 2, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> 2aguy, you make a great point and I completely missed it when I read white6's confession.
> 
> white6 has openly confessed to committing a felony by intentionally lying to the police engaged in the investigation of a crime.  That's lying to the police and obstruction of justice.  Depending on his state, that could be up to 15 years in prison for lying and another 10 for obstruction.  By the very laws he supports, he no longer has the right to keep and bear arms.  All that's left is to report his crime to the FBI and watch it happen.  But, since I don't believe a word he said, I won't report it.  I wonder if he wants to insist that it's true that he committed a felony.


White 6 solved the problem, by talking to the neighbor.  I am known to handle not only my own problems, but neighborhood problems, at times with direct intervention.  When I needed police to handle something too risky, I have call them.  Neighbor never did anything like that again.  Other neighbor were aware.  They knew the person and trusted my judgement, whether you do or not.  Goal is not to get people in trouble with authorities if there is a problem.  Goal is to stop or solve the problem.


----------



## White 6 (Oct 2, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> Well, that's a fucking lie, isn't it?  You openly admitted to committing multiple felonies.  Do the military, security, and intel agencies know you're a felon?


Try to remember reality.  A felon is not a felon until charged and proven in a court.  I'm good with local police and my neighbors.  Always have been and probably always will be.  Neighbor know me as somebody to call or go get when something comes up, so they do.


----------



## White 6 (Oct 2, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> So you don't believe what I said about AR-15 bans not being for public safety?  You think Biden, and the Mayor of Chicago, and all other gun controllers care about public safety?  Then why aren't they enforcing the gun laws we have?  Why are they letting criminals who used guns in their crimes, who are forbidden from possessing guns, back out on the streets, dropping charges or giving very light sentences, and no bail before trial?
> 
> Taking my AR-15 does not do a thing to save a baby in Chicago or Gary, Indiana.  Harsh prison sentences, in prisons with harsh conditions, would go very far to reduce the number of dead babies in Chicago.  Biden, Mayor Lightfoot, and all the gun controllers, including you, don't give a shit about public safety and gun control; you only want to disarm those who represent a potential threat to tyrannical, socialist, government.


Did somebody take your AR-15?  They didn't take mine. What did you do?  Got any 5.56 you want to sell cheap, since you won't be needing it?


----------



## justinacolmena (Oct 2, 2021)

Flash said:


> Go look up the _Miller_ case.
> 
> The Supreme Court determined that the Second applies to firearms in general use by the military.


So by SCOTUS precedent, the Constitution doesn't apply to gun rights anymore.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Oct 2, 2021)

White 6 said:


> I'm not grabbing jack, I just don't support your all the guns for all without regulation of any kind whatsoever, as it is not what the founding fathers intended...


Correct.

The Second Amendment is neither ‘absolute’ nor ‘unlimited.’

The notion that all firearm regulatory measures are somehow an ‘infringement’ on the Second Amendment right is both wrong and ridiculous.


----------



## justinacolmena (Oct 2, 2021)

Flash said:


> When the filthy ass anti gun nuts claim that the Second does not apply to military type weapons then they are simply wrong.


You're mental and they throw you in the nut house to revoke your gun rights if you haven't committed a felony they can convict you on.


----------



## justinacolmena (Oct 2, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Correct.
> 
> The Second Amendment is neither ‘absolute’ nor ‘unlimited.’
> 
> The notion that all firearm regulatory measures are somehow an ‘infringement’ on the Second Amendment right is both wrong and ridiculous.


You can't grab my guns and tell me with a straight face you're not infringing my rights. Liar.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Oct 2, 2021)

Flash said:


> Go look up the _Miller_ case.
> 
> The Supreme Court determined that the Second applies to firearms in general use by the military.


The_ Miller_ Court also held that the regulatory provisions of the National Firearms Act were perfectly Constitutional and did not violate the Second Amendment, that the Second Amendment right is neither ‘absolute’ nor ‘unlimited,’ and that there are firearms outside of the scope of the Second Amendment not entitled to Constitutional protections – such as an unregistered shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches long.


----------



## Flash (Oct 2, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> The_ Miller_ Court also held that the regulatory provisions of the National Firearms Act were perfectly Constitutional and did not violate the Second Amendment, that the Second Amendment right is neither ‘absolute’ nor ‘unlimited,’ and that there are firearms outside of the scope of the Second Amendment not entitled to Constitutional protections – such as an unregistered shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches long.


As it pertains to firearms not in general use by the military.

Miller was found guilty of violating the stupid NFA law because the Court erroneously determined that he had a weapon not in common use by the military.


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## justinacolmena (Oct 2, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> The_ Miller_ Court also held that the regulatory provisions of the National Firearms Act were perfectly Constitutional and did not violate the Second Amendment, that the Second Amendment right is neither ‘absolute’ nor ‘unlimited,’ and that there are firearms outside of the scope of the Second Amendment not entitled to Constitutional protections – such as an unregistered shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches long.


Dems, Socialists and Commies just need to be flogged, whipped, and beaten, flailed with heavy chains until they understand the words "shall not be infringed" in a true and correct plain reading of the law. Without that the court is out of its jurisdiction with its gross distortion of laws, patent lies, black-robed barratry, powdered wigs, and all sorts of other liberal nonsense and misinterpretation.


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## Bob Blaylock (Oct 2, 2021)

Flash said:


> Miller was found guilty of violating the stupid NFA law because the Court erroneously determined that he had a weapon not in common use by the military.



  And because no one was present to argue Miller's side before the Court, to point out the factual errors on which their ruling was ultimately based, nor to argue for a more reasonably broad reading of the Second Amendment which would have rendered those errors moot anyway.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Oct 2, 2021)

justinacolmena said:


> You can't grab my guns and tell me with a straight face you're not infringing my rights. Liar.


No one wants to ‘grab your guns’ – you’re the typical liar and dishonest rightist.

Conservatives’ ignorance of, and contempt for, the Constitution is why it’s pointless to address the Second Amendment with the willfully ignorant right.


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## Flash (Oct 2, 2021)

There is a major problem with challenging gun laws through the courts.  It is called standing.

In order to challenge a law you have to have standing.

The problem is that most firearm violation are connected to some other crime.  Most of those cases are pleaded out long before they get to the Supreme Court.  It is hard to have a clean stand alone challenge to the base infringement law.

That is one of the reasons there have been very few real infringement cases brought to the Supreme Court.

Two exceptions have been _Heller_ and _McDonald.

Miller _could have been one of those had Miller ever shown up for court and his lawyers aggressively challenged the legality of the filthy NFA law.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Oct 2, 2021)

Flash said:


> As it pertains to firearms not in general use by the military.
> 
> Miller was found guilty of violating the stupid NFA law because the Court erroneously determined that he had a weapon not in common use by the military.


Wrong.

The Court reaffirmed the fact that not all firearms are entitled to Constitutional protections, that dangerous and unusual weapons – such as a sawed-off shotgun – can be subject to government regulation, and that the NFA is perfectly lawful and in no manner violates the Second Amendment.

The Second Amendment is neither ‘absolute’ nor ‘unlimited’ – it is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.

Government has the authority to regulate firearms consistent with Second Amendment jurisprudence.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Oct 2, 2021)

Flash said:


> The problem is that most firearm violation are connected to some other crime. Most of those cases are pleaded out long before they get to the Supreme Court. It is hard to have a clean stand alone challenge to the base infringement law.


This is a lie.

Recent Supreme Court cases concerning firearms had nothing to do with crimes or criminal law.

Both _Heller_ and _McDonald_ addressed the regulation of firearms, in particular handgun prohibitions; the plaintiffs were not criminal defendants.

_McDonald _also addressed incorporating the Second Amendment to the states and local jurisdictions.

Likewise, the case the Court will hear this term concerning New York’s may issue carry permit policy has nothing to do with criminal law or criminal defendants.


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## AZrailwhale (Oct 2, 2021)

White 6 said:


> Prohibition was indeed stupid, just like Federal laws on marijuana.  Full auto machine guns have no place in a stable, yet crowed society and indeed should be regulated.  Regulation is just another tool, but does not infringe on legitimate uses of personal weapons by the vast, the vast majority of Americans.  Don't expect me to cry, that you can't mount an M-60 on your pickup truck, on the streets.


You think automatic weapons have no place, others differ.  That’s the nice thing about a free society we can make up our minds.  Do you have a problem with the rich and celebrities private guards carrying full auto weapons?  Many of them do you know.@


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Oct 2, 2021)

Flash said:


> That is one of the reasons there have been very few real infringement cases brought to the Supreme Court.


Another lie.

The Court often does not disclose why it refuses to hear a case.

The consensus is that the Court is satisfied with allowing Second Amendment jurisprudence to continue to evolve at the state-level and that cases are not ripe for review.


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## White 6 (Oct 2, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> You think automatic weapons have no place, others differ.  That’s the nice thing about a free society we can make up our minds.  Do you have a problem with the rich and celebrities private guards carrying full auto weapons?  Many of them do you know.@


Yes, but if they have passed all requirements in place, regarding background, training documentations, security, etc, then you won't ever hear me kick up a fuss.


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## justinacolmena (Oct 2, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> No one wants to ‘grab your guns’ – you’re the typical liar and dishonest rightist.


Every federal, state, local, city cop in America, in perfect solidarity with the AFL-CIO police unions.


C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Conservatives’ ignorance of, and contempt for, the Constitution is why it’s pointless to address the Second Amendment with the willfully ignorant right.


Conservatives are simply reading and interpreting the phrase "shall not be infringed" simply as it as stated without exceptions because there are none.


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## woodwork201 (Oct 2, 2021)

White 6 said:


> White 6 solved the problem, by talking to the neighbor.  I am known to handle not only my own problems, but neighborhood problems, at times with direct intervention.  When I needed police to handle something too risky, I have call them.  Neighbor never did anything like that again.  Other neighbor were aware.  They knew the person and trusted my judgement, whether you do or not.  Goal is not to get people in trouble with authorities if there is a problem.  Goal is to stop or solve the problem.


So you're a felon with a habit of interfering in the lives of others and taking the law into your own hands?  That explains your affinity with the left and the socialists here and in general.  As a group, "felon with a habit of interfering in the lives of others and taking the law into their own hands" accurately describes Antifa and the left.


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## woodwork201 (Oct 2, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> The_ Miller_ Court also held that the regulatory provisions of the National Firearms Act were perfectly Constitutional and did not violate the Second Amendment, that the Second Amendment right is neither ‘absolute’ nor ‘unlimited,’ and that there are firearms outside of the scope of the Second Amendment not entitled to Constitutional protections – such as an unregistered shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches long.


Sometimes the Supreme Court gets it right; sometimes they get it wrong.  Can you think of any case where they got it wrong or are you going to argue that they're always right so whatever they said is right?

We'll disagree, of course, on which cases the Court got wrong and right but, hopefully, we agree that they do get it wrong and we, again hopefully, agree that they're the Supreme Court and not the Supreme Rulers so they cannot change the Constitution by decree or ruling. 

Hopefully, again, we agree that the Constitution is absolute and that the government has no authority not granted by the Constitution.  If you disagree, please tell how and where they get that authority.  Is it by birth?  A king we don't know about?  Do they have blue blood?  How does the United States government have any authority or power not granted in the Constitution?  If the Court is limited by the Constitution then we must surely agree that they do not have the authority to change the Constitution or rule in violation of it.  Do we agree on that?

Assuming we agree on all of those things, then the only thing left to resolve is what do the words of the Constitution say on the matter and, by original intent, what do those words mean?


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## woodwork201 (Oct 2, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Correct.
> 
> The Second Amendment is neither ‘absolute’ nor ‘unlimited.’
> 
> The notion that all firearm regulatory measures are somehow an ‘infringement’ on the Second Amendment right is both wrong and ridiculous.



Just for the sake of grammar and to further your understanding, all laws restricting the right to keep and bear arms are a *violation* of the 2nd Amendment because they *infringe* on the right to keep and bear arms.

Regulatory measures, on the other hand, means things like requiring the chambers to be tested and proven safe at standard pressures with enough excess pressure capacity to make the gun safe to shoot.  Those do not infringe on the right to keep and bear arms.


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## woodwork201 (Oct 2, 2021)

White 6 said:


> Try to remember reality.  A felon is not a felon until charged and proven in a court.  I'm good with local police and my neighbors.  Always have been and probably always will be.  Neighbor know me as somebody to call or go get when something comes up, so they do.


No, a felon is someone who commits a felony.  A hunter is someone who hunts.  A dishwasher is someone who washes dishes.  A convicted felon is someone who has been convicted of committing a felony.

 You may not yet be a convicted felon but you are, without a doubt, a felon; a confessed felon.  You're good with the local police because they don't know that you took the law into your own hands, lied to them, and obstructed justice.


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## justinacolmena (Oct 2, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Government has the authority to regulate firearms consistent with Second Amendment jurisprudence.


There's a right, a "RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE," mind you, that, quote, "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED." What part of _that_ are you overprivileged communist legal scholars not willing to understand?


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## M14 Shooter (Oct 2, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Correct.
> The Second Amendment is neither ‘absolute’ nor ‘unlimited.’
> The notion that all firearm regulatory measures are somehow an ‘infringement’ on the Second Amendment right is both wrong and ridiculous.


Says the guy proven to have lied.
Why should we believe you?


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## White 6 (Oct 2, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> So you're a felon with a habit of interfering in the lives of others and taking the law into your own hands?  That explains your affinity with the left and the socialists here and in general.  As a group, "felon with a habit of interfering in the lives of others and taking the law into their own hands" accurately describes Antifa and the left.


First sentence works for me, except for the felon part.  I have no particular affinity with the left.  Your view is skewed from being on the radical right nut-ball sites. I just help people when called upon or needed and take care of me and mine.  Raised in the country from farming stock, remember?  I do think fast on my feet and take individual action as necessary now, just as I have done in multiple countries at a younger age, to great advantage.


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## woodwork201 (Oct 2, 2021)

White 6 said:


> Did somebody take your AR-15?  They didn't take mine. What did you do?  Got any 5.56 you want to sell cheap, since you won't be needing it?











						Text - H.R.127 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): Sabika Sheikh Firearm Licensing and Registration Act
					

Text for H.R.127 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): Sabika Sheikh Firearm Licensing and Registration Act



					www.congress.gov
				




Do you really believe the next step after total gun registration is something other than taking the "military style" guns?


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## woodwork201 (Oct 2, 2021)

White 6 said:


> First sentence works for me, except for the felon part.  I have no particular affinity with the left.  Your view is skewed from being on the radical right nut-ball sites. I just help people when called upon or needed and take care of me and mine.  Raised in the country from farming stock, remember?  I do think fast on my feet and take individual action as necessary now, just as I have done in multiple countries at a younger age, to great advantage.


If you commit felonies you're a felon.  Is a bank robber a felon?  Is a murderer a felon?  You're a liar and a hypocrite.


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## White 6 (Oct 2, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> Text - H.R.127 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): Sabika Sheikh Firearm Licensing and Registration Act
> 
> 
> Text for H.R.127 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): Sabika Sheikh Firearm Licensing and Registration Act
> ...


Won't pass.  Won't even come close.  Besides, it would be like Australia, the most restrictive, I know of.  They may not easily buy more and all are supposed to be registered since around 1998.  75% rifles and shotguns that are still out there are not thought to be registered.


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## White 6 (Oct 2, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> If you commit felonies you're a felon.  Is a bank robber a felon?  Is a murderer a felon?  You're a liar and a hypocrite.


Not until adjudicated through the trial courts, you're not.  This is America.  Get back to the troll farm Yuri.


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## woodwork201 (Oct 2, 2021)

White 6 said:


> First sentence works for me, except for the felon part.  I have no particular affinity with the left.  Your view is skewed from being on the radical right nut-ball sites. I just help people when called upon or needed and take care of me and mine.  Raised in the country from farming stock, remember?  I do think fast on my feet and take individual action as necessary now, just as I have done in multiple countries at a younger age, to great advantage.



I actually don't know what a radical right nut-ball site is.  I usually spend my research time on well-known news sites, the Constitution itself, and the writings of the Founders.  My recreational time is usually spent here.  Like all leftists, you immediately cry Alex Jones when someone quotes the Constitution or otherwise defeats your anti-gun, anti-liberty arguments.

Since I don't know what radical right nut-ball sites are, I checked this page on Wikipedia:





__





						Category:Websites with far-right material - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Of all the sites listed under Websites with far-right material, I've only ever heard of one: Info Wars.  I was on that website once more than 10 years ago.  I dismissed Alex Jones as a nutcase and haven't been back. 

No; it's not radical right nut-ball sites that I read to know you're an anti-gun leftist.  It's your own words compared to the words of the Constitution and of the Founders.  You're a gun controller.  You're most certainly anti-Constitution.

People like you are dangerous.  You think you're above the law, you operate outside the law and the Constitution.  It is the likes of you that people are thinking when they talk about the zombie hordes to be defended against.


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## woodwork201 (Oct 2, 2021)

White 6 said:


> Not until adjudicated through the trial courts, you're not.  This is America.  Get back to the troll farm Yuri.


Commit the crime and you're a felon.  The courts make you a convicted felon.  Why do you think the courts differentiate between felons and convicted felons?  Why is the term convicted felon even a thing if felon includes convicted.  That would be redundant, felon.  You're a criminal. You're a felon.  But even if you won't admit to being a felon, surely you'll admit to being a criminal, right, felon?


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## woodwork201 (Oct 2, 2021)

White 6 said:


> Not until adjudicated through the trial courts, you're not.  This is America.  Get back to the troll farm Yuri.











						Definition of FELON
					

one who has committed a felony; villain; a painful abscess of the deep tissues of the palmar surface of the fingertip that is typically caused by bacterial infection (as with a staphylococcus) and is marked by swelling and pain… See the full definition




					www.merriam-webster.com
				



*
one who has committed a felony.*

Nothing in there about conviction, felon.


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## White 6 (Oct 2, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> I actually don't know what a radical right nut-ball site is.  I usually spend my research time on well-known news sites, the Constitution itself, and the writings of the Founders.  My recreational time is usually spent here.  Like all leftists, you immediately cry Alex Jones when someone quotes the Constitution or otherwise defeats your anti-gun, anti-liberty arguments.
> 
> Since I don't know what radical right nut-ball sites are, I checked this page on Wikipedia:
> 
> ...


No need to get defensive about Alex.  I'm sure you just visit that nut-ball site for the Survival Shield and the Super Male Vitality, Alex hawks on his site.


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## White 6 (Oct 2, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> Commit the crime and you're a felon.  The courts make you a convicted felon.  Why do you think the courts differentiate between felons and convicted felons?  Why is the term convicted felon even a thing if felon includes convicted.  That would be redundant, felon.  You're a criminal. You're a felon.  But even if you won't admit to being a felon, surely you'll admit to being a criminal, right, felon?


Because you are not a felon until convicted and all are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?  What did you think it was?  Just a public opinion thing on internet chat rooms?  Failed history and civics, did you?  Does not sound like that GED got the job done, dude.


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## BasicHumanUnit (Oct 2, 2021)

None of this matter one Iota.
The powers that run this nation have decided long ago civilians must be disarmed.
There is no meaningful resistance.
Americans WILL lose their firearms.   I don't care how much Internet Tuff Guy talk you spew.   You are going to give them up sooner or later.

At every single crossroad where Americans needed to take a firm stand and not budge, they opted instead to watch Netflix or go to the kneeling ball game.
Americans made a choice....temporary comfort and "fun" over liberty and rights.

Now it's time to pay the price.
Too bad if you think you will make your stand at the Alamo and fight off the Feds when they roll in with heavily armed troops and armored vehicles,
many of which could very well be foreign forces under the control of the UN (which loathes you, your guns and America)  Biden is busy in the process of signing awy your 2A rights at the UN as we speak.

You have no plan.  They do.  You're done, bend over.  Warrior Pussy Society.


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## woodwork201 (Oct 2, 2021)

White 6 said:


> Not until adjudicated through the trial courts, you're not.  This is America.  Get back to the troll farm Yuri.


According to the FBI, you're a felon.  It doesn't require or assume conviction, it assumes you've committed a felony:









						Offense Definitions
					





					ucr.fbi.gov
				




*The program classifies justifiable homicides separately and limits the definition to: (1) the killing of a felon by a law enforcement officer in the line of duty; or (2) the killing of a felon, during the commission of a felony, by a private citizen*.

Nothing in that that implies conviction in order to fit the definition of being a felon.









						felon
					

Definition of felon in the Legal Dictionary by The Free Dictionary




					legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com
				




*Felon
An individual who commits a crime of a serious nature, such as Burglary or murder. A person who commits a felony.*


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## White 6 (Oct 2, 2021)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> None of this matter one Iota.
> The powers that run this nation have decided long ago civilians must be disarmed.
> There is no meaningful resistance.
> Americans WILL lose their firearms.   I don't care how much Internet Tuff Guy talk you spew.   You are going to give them up sooner or later.
> ...


Are you getting enough sleep?  Here is a site you should see if you think the anti-gun movement is actually winning.  Cheer up.
18 States: As Constitutional Carry Advances, There's Still a Long Way to Go - The Truth About Guns
So you can't carry a machine gun around.  Big deal.  Neither could my father.  My grandfather could not carry one most of his life either.  How do you miss, what your fathers, grandfathers, and great-grandfathers never had?


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## White 6 (Oct 2, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> According to the FBI, you're a felon.  It doesn't require or assume conviction, it assumes you've committed a felony:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nope.  Passed FBI, Homeland Security, ATF, TBI and all local agencies. You just don't get what it is to be an American under our system of justice.


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## woodwork201 (Oct 2, 2021)

White 6 said:


> Because you are not a felon until convicted and all are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?  What did you think it was?  Just a public opinion thing on internet chat rooms?  Failed history and civics, did you?  Does not sound like that GED got the job done, dude.


No, that's pretty ignorant of you.  No one need by considered innocent except by the jury.  The judge has no obligation to assume you're innocent.  The prosecutor certainly assumes you're guilty.  Other than that, everyone in the world has a right to assume you're guilty if they choose.

But, once again, when logic and research don't support you, fall back to personal attack.  You're a criminal.  You're a felon.  You committed a felony.

How about, instead of continuing to deny the meaning of the word, just admit that you're a criminal and that you committed a felony.  I mean, you already confessed but you just can't seem to own it, felon.


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## woodwork201 (Oct 2, 2021)

White 6 said:


> Nope.  Passed FBI, Homeland Security, ATF, TBI and all local agencies. You just don't get what it is to be an American under our system of justice.


Well, that's just asinine.  What does it mean that you passed FBI and a bunch of other agencies?  Passed what?  And the fact that they didn't know of the crime that you openly admitted to committing here does not mean you didn't commit the crime.  You're a felon, felon.   You're a criminal, felon.  You committed a felony, felon.  

Apparently, and you're certainly not the only example of our broken justice system, YOU are what it means to be an American under our system of justice - you, Hunter Biden, thousands of gang members across the country who go un-prosecuted ffor their crimes, are all examples of what it is to be an American under our system of justice, felon.


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## White 6 (Oct 2, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> No, that's pretty ignorant of you.  No one need by considered innocent except by the jury.  The judge has no obligation to assume you're innocent.  The prosecutor certainly assumes you're guilty.  Other than that, everyone in the world has a right to assume you're guilty if they choose.
> 
> But, once again, when logic and research don't support you, fall back to personal attack.  You're a criminal.  You're a felon.  You committed a felony.
> 
> How about, instead of continuing to deny the meaning of the word, just admit that you're a criminal and that you committed a felony.  I mean, you already confessed but you just can't seem to own it, felon.


Lot of difference between what you choose to assume and what the rule of law is.  Supreme court got to it before you, in Taylor v Kentucky.  You lost. We operate on presumption of innocence.


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## woodwork201 (Oct 2, 2021)

White 6 said:


> Lot of difference between what you choose to assume and what the rule of law is.  Supreme court got to it before you, in Taylor v Kentucky.  You lost. We operate on presumption of innocence.



Are you a fucking idiot?  No, wait... Let me rephrase that.  You are a fucking idiot.  You try to argue with me but you provide the reference to prove I'm right and you're a fucking idiot.






						Taylor v. Kentucky | Case Brief for Law Students
					

CitationTaylor v. Kentucky, 436 U.S. 478, 98 S. Ct. 1930, 56 L. Ed. 2d 468, 1978 U.S. LEXIS 95 (U.S. May 30, 1978) Brief Fact Summary. Petitioner, tried for armed robbery, had requested that jury instructions include the presumption of innocence and the indictment’s lack of evidentiary value...



					www.casebriefs.com
				




_Brief Fact Summary. *Petitioner, tried for armed robbery, had requested that jury instructions include the presumption of innocence* and the indictment’s lack of evidentiary value. The trial judge denied._

The Jury must assume innocence; no one else in the entire universe need make such an assumption, felon.


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## White 6 (Oct 3, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> Are you a fucking idiot?  No, wait... Let me rephrase that.  You are a fucking idiot.  You try to argue with me but you provide the reference to prove I'm right and you're a fucking idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are boring me. fuck off, troll.


----------



## woodwork201 (Oct 3, 2021)

White 6 said:


> You are boring me. fuck off, troll.


Bored?  Then you admit you're a felon and criminal?  Or just that you can't find any actual references to say you're not a criminal, felon?


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## BasicHumanUnit (Oct 4, 2021)

White 6 said:


> Are you getting enough sleep?  Here is a site you should see if you think the anti-gun movement is actually winning.  Cheer up.
> 18 States: As Constitutional Carry Advances, There's Still a Long Way to Go - The Truth About Guns
> So you can't carry a machine gun around.  Big deal.  Neither could my father.  My grandfather could not carry one most of his life either.  How do you miss, what your fathers, grandfathers, and great-grandfathers never had?



There's this thing called "The Constitution".....
Show us where it says what the limitations are to the "ARMS" we can "bear".
I'll give you some time, to realize how distorted your perception is.

Meanwhile, where are you really?  China, Pakistan or Russia ?


----------



## White 6 (Oct 4, 2021)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> There's this thing called "The Constitution".....
> Show us where it says what the limitations are to the "ARMS" we can "bear".
> I'll give you some time, to realize how distorted your perception is.
> 
> Meanwhile, where are you really?  China, Pakistan or Russia ?


The Constitution does not say you can't jump off a hydroelectric dam, either, but they have chain link to prevent all but the most determined from doing it.  Oh,... oh,... those poor who people wish to jump and their constitutional rights.
Jackson, TN, just getting back from Lifeline Blood Center, enjoying my 1st cup of coffee for the day, and breakfast.
How bout you, Yuri?  St. Petersburg?


----------

