# If teachers were given the option to conceal carry, schools would be a lot safer.



## Mikeoxenormous (May 26, 2022)

My daughter while going to college, also went to the "women's weapon self defense course" and "conceal carry class".  She passed with flying colors got her permit to carry and is now a full fledge teacher.  More teachers with this capability would be the front line defense incase of a deranged Progressive moron (radicalized to hate America) wanted to come into the school with the intent to "murder" innocent children and teachers.  Have the school system pay for the security those schools so badly need.





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Remember.


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## Calypso Jones (May 26, 2022)

Considering some of the fruitcakes teaching transgenderism and queerness to our kids today....might be better to arm the kindegartners.


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## Penelope (May 26, 2022)

Calypso Jones said:


> Considering some of the fruitcakes teaching transgenderism and queerness to our kids today....might be better to arm the kindegartners.


Its a fallacy that they are teaching trans and queerness to  our kids, the republicans must of told you this.


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## Penelope (May 26, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> My daughter while going to college, also went to the "women's weapon self defense course" and "conceal carry class".  She passed with flying colors got her permit to carry and is now a full fledge teacher.  More teachers with this capability would be the front line defense incase of a deranged Progressive moron (radicalized to hate America) wanted to come into the school with the intent to "murder" innocent children and teachers.  Have the school system pay for the security those schools so badly need.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that will be just great, now we can be the wild wild west. Now she can be tuff and carry a gun, just to be killed by a gun.


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## Hugo Furst (May 26, 2022)

Penelope said:


> that will be just great, now we can be the wild wild west. Now she can be tuff and carry a gun, just to be killed by a gun.





Penelope said:


> Now she can be tuff and carry a gun, just to be killed by a gun.


you haven't been paying attention.


even without a gun, they are killing teachers and children


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## Mikeoxenormous (May 26, 2022)

Penelope said:


> that will be just great, now we can be the wild wild west. Now she can be tuff and carry a gun, just to be killed by a gun.


During the wild wild west, there wasnt as many gun fights as "Hollyweird" portrayed.  Most people carried and gun and no one wanted to find out if they werent as fast as the other guy.  In Tuscon Az it is legal to openly carry and there are not many gun fights there.  You are such a progressive slave, willing to give up your rights, just for a $1,400 check.


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## Calypso Jones (May 26, 2022)

I bought my daughter a gun for protection from a former boyfriend who was vengeful when she ws out of college and living on her own two hours away.  Things worked out well.    He very intelligently left her alone at that point. The things he said to her on her answering machine.....what an idiot.  NOT admissable in court, but the judge wanted to listen to it and he did.  And it affected his decision.  He remarked on the viciousness of his messages in court.


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## Calypso Jones (May 26, 2022)

penelope said:
			
		

> Its a fallacy that they are teaching trans and queerness to our kids, the republicans must of told you this.



bullshit woman.


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## Circe (May 26, 2022)

Calypso Jones said:


> I bought my daughter a gun for protection from a former boyfriend who was vengeful when she ws out of college and living on her own two hours away.  Things worked out well.    He very intelligently left her alone at that point. The things he said to her on her answering machine.....what an idiot.  NOT admissable in court, but the judge wanted to listen to it and he did.  And it affected his decision.  He remarked on the viciousness of his messages in court.


Darn, I think phone call evidence should have been admissable!

This is one of the many reasons we need gun freedoms.


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## bodecea (May 26, 2022)

Calypso Jones said:


> Considering some of the fruitcakes teaching transgenderism and queerness to our kids today....might be better to arm the kindegartners.


I'm sure your brand of Republican white-wing logic leads you to that con-clusion.


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## Calypso Jones (May 26, 2022)

you are so stupid.


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## Circe (May 26, 2022)

Penelope said:


> that will be just great, now we can be the wild wild west. Now she can be tuff and carry a gun, just to be killed by a gun.


Yeah, it's unworkable. What young girl just out of education college is going to want to continue in such a profession with all this craziness? They are mostly leftist anyway ------------------ they simply will not do it, that's that. 

I am surprised rightwing men can't see that most women ARE NOT LIKE THEM.  We just aren't. (Well, maybe I am, but I'm an outlier.) Friend of mine, kept large livestock, horses, all kinds of big things, had a very -- robust, rightwing --- attitude toward politics and so on, once said to me that she hadn't realized I butchered poultry and such and she couldn't do such things as that. I was unimpressed, knowing her, and said that I knew she could if she needed to, such as in an apocalypse situation. Still, I was startled at her reflex rejection of any violence by her personally.  You can't turn us into men, guys ---- don't bother trying. Look for another solution. There isn't one, IMO, but turning women into men sure isn't the solution.


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## citygator (May 26, 2022)

Police officers hid outside for 40 minutes but an untrained female 24 year old 3rd grade teacher who was just reading “Goodnight Moon” to the  class before nap time is gonna gun down a heavily armed and armored up bad guy? Fuck off morons.


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (May 26, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Its a fallacy that they are teaching trans and queerness to  our kids, the republicans must of told you this.


We stopped diagnosing gender dysphoria about 10-12 years ago.  Since then, we have had a HUGE uptick in trannies.

A person who has been molested is about 10x more likely to be a homosexual.

Fuck off.


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## Pellinore (May 26, 2022)

The idea that classrooms would be safer by having firearms introduced into them is madness to me.  

The answer to this part of the problem is SROs.  They didn't stop the guy at this one data point, but they do a lot of good.


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## Mikeoxenormous (May 26, 2022)

Circe said:


> Yeah, it's unworkable. What young girl just out of education college is going to want to continue in such a profession with all this craziness? They are mostly leftist anyway ------------------ they simply will not do it, that's that.
> 
> I am surprised rightwing men can't see that most women ARE NOT LIKE THEM.  We just aren't. (Well, maybe I am, but I'm an outlier.) Friend of mine, kept large livestock, horses, all kinds of big things, had a very -- robust, rightwing --- attitude toward politics and so on, once said to me that she hadn't realized I butchered poultry and such and she couldn't do such things as that. I was unimpressed, knowing her, and said that I knew she could if she needed to, such as in an apocalypse situation. Still, I was startled at her reflex rejection of any violence by her personally.  You can't turn us into men, guys ---- don't bother trying. Look for another solution. There isn't one, IMO, but turning women into men sure isn't the solution.


No, but some women are much better than a progressive pussified pajama boy.


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## Mikeoxenormous (May 26, 2022)

Pellinore said:


> The idea that classrooms would be safer by having firearms introduced into them is madness to me.
> 
> The answer to this part of the problem is SROs.  They didn't stop the guy at this one data point, but they do a lot of good.


interesting that many good law abiding citizens who teach would sacrifice their lives in defense of the children they are responsible for, but you dont want them to be able to defend themselves "legally".  Is it because you want children to be executed by said bad guys?









						Parkland school shooting: Football coach died shielding students
					

Coach Aaron Feis took several bullets while protecting students at his alma mater during Wednesday's mass shooting, witnesses said.




					www.nbcnews.com
				





If he only had a weapon to shoot back at the progressive creep.


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## Circe (May 26, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> No, but some women are much better than a progressive pussified pajama boy.


Okaaaaaaaaay ------------- though I'm going to say I don't think the point of that ad is QUITE how delighted a woman is to have a new gun.

Just sayin' ------


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## BackAgain (May 26, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> No, but some women are much better than a progressive pussified pajama boy.


After watching all those rounds fired, I came to the conclusion that she is well toned.


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## M14 Shooter (May 26, 2022)

Penelope said:


> that will be just great, now we can be the wild wild west. Now she can be tuff and carry a gun, just to be killed by a gun.


It's a fallacy that letting teachers carry guns will lead to the wild wild west - the Democrats must of told you this.


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## M14 Shooter (May 26, 2022)

citygator said:


> Police officers hid outside for 40 minutes but an untrained female 24 year old 3rd grade teacher who was just reading “Goodnight Moon” to the  class before nap time is gonna gun down a heavily armed and armored up bad guy? Fuck off morons.


If it saves one life...


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## Failzero (May 26, 2022)

Marxist Inspired Union types who espouse the 1619 Project and CRT gettin
Permits ?


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## Mikeoxenormous (May 26, 2022)

Failzero said:


> Marxist Inspired Union types who espouse the 1619 Project and CRT gettin
> Permits ?


No, they are too scared of the big bad ole guns....


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## citygator (May 26, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> If it saves one life...


Same POV on gun control? If it saves one life…


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## M14 Shooter (May 26, 2022)

citygator said:


> Same POV on gun control? If it saves one life…


Oh - you don't like it when liberal talking points are used against you.
So sad...


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## Pellinore (May 26, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> interesting that many good law abiding citizens who teach would sacrifice their lives in defense of the children they are responsible for, but you dont want them to be able to defend themselves "legally".  Is it because you want children to be executed by said bad guys?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


C'mon, man.  If there is one thing we all have in common, it's that none of us want children to be executed by bad guys.  We can start there.

And top marks to the football coach, but that's one data point.  He may have stopped and shot the bad guy, but put handguns under the windbreakers of a thousand football coaches across the country, and it's not hard to imagine a lot of unintended consequences.  This coach cracks under pressure; that one has his go off by accident; others get theirs stolen by a student, or pull it for a minor altercation, or focus on being Dirty Harry when he should be guiding his kids out the back door.  

Teachers, and in this case coaches, are famously overworked and stressed.  Some of them may have been Marine snipers in a former life, sure, but taken collectively, I don't want them having to juggle firearm safety and counter-terrorism duties on top of the mountain of others they already have.


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## 2aguy (May 26, 2022)

Penelope said:


> that will be just great, now we can be the wild wild west. Now she can be tuff and carry a gun, just to be killed by a gun.



The wild west was only wild in the movies...people had to be polite to each other because they all had guns...


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## 2aguy (May 26, 2022)

citygator said:


> Police officers hid outside for 40 minutes but an untrained female 24 year old 3rd grade teacher who was just reading “Goodnight Moon” to the  class before nap time is gonna gun down a heavily armed and armored up bad guy? Fuck off morons.




Hey, dumb ass........do you think they would have used those guns to stop the guy as they stood in front of those kids?   You fucking dumb ass...

The cops were outside for over an hour........your government failed you, and failed those children.....

give up your guns and government will protect you...

Those dead children and teachers are examples showing this is a stupid belief....


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## Canon Shooter (May 26, 2022)

Penelope said:


> that will be just great, now we can be the wild wild west. Now she can be tuff and carry a gun, just to be killed by a gun.



This is so stupid.

We trust teachers with almost every single aspect of our children's lives.

We trust them to educate them. We trust them to see that our children eat when they should. We trust them to see that our children can get to the restroom when need be. We trust them to make sure they don't fight with their peers. We trust them to make sure our kids get on the school bus at the end of the school day.

But you obviously don't think it's important enough to trust teachers to _protect _our children.

Sorry, but that's just fucked up...


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## 2aguy (May 26, 2022)

Pellinore said:


> C'mon, man.  If there is one thing we all have in common, it's that none of us want children to be executed by bad guys.  We can start there.
> 
> And top marks to the football coach, but that's one data point.  He may have stopped and shot the bad guy, but put handguns under the windbreakers of a thousand football coaches across the country, and it's not hard to imagine a lot of unintended consequences.  This coach cracks under pressure; that one has his go off by accident; others get theirs stolen by a student, or pull it for a minor altercation, or focus on being Dirty Harry when he should be guiding his kids out the back door.
> 
> Teachers, and in this case coaches, are famously overworked and stressed.  Some of them may have been Marine snipers in a former life, sure, but taken collectively, I don't want them having to juggle firearm safety and counter-terrorism duties on top of the mountain of others they already have.




Yeah....except no......there are already armed teachers in schools all across the country and nothing you are predicting has happened...

So......you have nothing...

*Here’s all the states where teachers already carry guns in the classroom*
*
Florida is on the verge of becoming the 15th state to arm teachers after Gov. Rick Scott signed an omnibus bill Friday allowing school staff to undergo law enforcement training to carry guns in the classroom.

Although the notion may seem radical, at least 14 states already arm teachers, according to a VICE News review of state laws and interviews with education department officials and school board associations around the country. Those states are Alabama, Arkansas, Colorado, Idaho, Indiana, Missouri, Montana, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, and Washington.


Another 16 states give local school boards the authority to decide whether school staff can carry guns, either explicitly or through legal loopholes, but officials said they didn’t know of any instances of armed teachers in those states.*

Here’s all the states where teachers already carry guns in the classroom
------------

Pistol-Packing Teachers Becoming More Common in Arkansas

HEBER SPRINGS, ARKANSAS —

Dale Cresswell keeps his gun on his hip at all times: in his classroom, at sporting events, whenever he’s at school.

Cresswell, head coach to the senior boys’ track and cross-country teams, is one of a small, but growing group of teachers around the United States who are volunteering to carry a weapon. His employer, Heber Springs School District, just came online this semester.

“It was a no-brainer. I have a daughter still in school,” said Cresswell of his decision, acknowledging that he might know any potential shooter. “I see it as, I’m protecting more than one person. I’m protecting all the other students.”

*Tests and training*

In order to qualify, Cresswell and other faculty, including administrators and IT professionals who can move around more easily, underwent background checks and psychological tests. They continue to go through rigorous training.

“I know that last summer there was a big movement here. We were fortunate that we had made the decision early, and we were able to secure trainers and get our time slot locked in,” said Heber Springs School District Superintendent Alan Stauffacher, noting that some other schools are “struggling” to get set up.

*A semester in, the novelty of Cresswell carrying a weapon has worn off. He said that when asked, the students tell him they don’t even notice his gun anymore.*

*----*

A study published by Vice News in March found that at least 14 of the 50 states arm teachers and another 16 allow local school boards to decide on the issue.

Here's what Pa. can do to stop the next school shooting | Opinion

Do we need the shooters to spell it out for us? Some have, including shooters at a Charleston church and at a Colorado movie theater.

In diaries and other statements, they have explicitly stated their intentions to avoid places where people have guns. In 2016, a young Islamic State sympathizer planned a shooting at one of the largest churches in Detroit. The FBI recorded a telephone call where he explained why he had picked the church: "It's easy, and a lot of people go there. Plus people are not allowed to carry guns in church."


*We don't have to guess about the logistics of letting teachers carry. In 18 states, teachers and staff are already carrying concealed handguns, though the rules vary greatly.*


Utah, with some of the least restrictive rules, has allowed teachers and staff to carry since 1997. There has never been a mass public shooting at an American school that allows concealed carry.

Clark Aposhian, the senior member of Utah's Concealed Firearm Review Board, estimates roughly 5 percent of teachers in his state carry permitted concealed handguns at school.

*Aposhian estimates a rate of between 10 percent and 12 percent among support staff . These support staff include janitors, librarians, secretaries, and lunch staff.*

Carrying in a school is no different than in a grocery store, movie theater, or restaurant. Over 1.3 million Pennsylvanians have a concealed handgun permit, and nobody knows who is carrying until a need arises. With almost 14 percent of adults having permits, public places are rarely defenseless. Except for schools.

Permit holders have recently stopped dozens of would-be mass public shootings in malls, churches, schools, universities and towns. Still, some people fear the worst. They fear that permit holders won't respond well, and perhaps accidentally shoot an innocent bystander. But that's never happened. Nor has a police officer ever accidentally shot a permit holder.
========\

http://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...b-guns-in-schools-st-0314-20180313-story.html

*For the Purdue project, students pored over FBI data from past mass shootings, including Sandy Hook, the 2012 Newtown, Conn., mass shooting that ended with 20 children and six adults dead. They studied police response time in relation to casualties, said the institute's director, J. Eric Dietz, Indiana's first director of Homeland Security. Appointed by Gov. Mitch Daniels, Dietz reorganized the state's public safety planning and response while serving as director until 2008.*
*In their study, the Purdue students created four scenarios and ran them through the computer models that followed an active shooter in a school. It's available at www.researchgate.net/.
They learned what could seem obvious: if a police officer or other armed school official confronts the shooter, fewer casualties are likely to occur. Dietz said the gun debate is so polarizing, his students sought to use science to inform people in the middle of the debate.
"What we found was profound," said Dietz. He said a single resource officer "or even an armed teacher in a defensive position between attacker and students can reduce the number of victims by up to 70 percent."
Dietz and his students have been presenting their findings at seminars across the country. They're using models now to study stadiums and sporting events.
"My students weren't supporting a certain agenda item. We tried to take a very objective look," said Dietz.*
*"In all cases, some presence of weapons was an advantage," he said. "Essentially, our model shows what President Trump said after the Florida shooting – arm more people. That's what we predict from the science we built."*


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## 2aguy (May 26, 2022)

Pellinore said:


> C'mon, man.  If there is one thing we all have in common, it's that none of us want children to be executed by bad guys.  We can start there.
> 
> And top marks to the football coach, but that's one data point.  He may have stopped and shot the bad guy, but put handguns under the windbreakers of a thousand football coaches across the country, and it's not hard to imagine a lot of unintended consequences.  This coach cracks under pressure; that one has his go off by accident; others get theirs stolen by a student, or pull it for a minor altercation, or focus on being Dirty Harry when he should be guiding his kids out the back door.
> 
> Teachers, and in this case coaches, are famously overworked and stressed.  Some of them may have been Marine snipers in a former life, sure, but taken collectively, I don't want them having to juggle firearm safety and counter-terrorism duties on top of the mountain of others they already have.




Wrong.....for the democrat party, a mass public shooting in an elementary school is Christmas day for them.........they can use the tragedy to push for the gun control laws they want, which have no bearing on what actually happened....

Don't tell us the democrats are saddened by these deaths....


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## Innocynioc (May 26, 2022)

If one of the teachers murdered by the loony in Texas had been carrying I find it most credible to believe they would have shot as an alternative to dying.


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## Mikeoxenormous (May 26, 2022)

Pellinore said:


> C'mon, man.  If there is one thing we all have in common, it's that none of us want children to be executed by bad guys.  We can start there.
> 
> And top marks to the football coach, but that's one data point.  He may have stopped and shot the bad guy, but put handguns under the windbreakers of a thousand football coaches across the country, and it's not hard to imagine a lot of unintended consequences.  This coach cracks under pressure; that one has his go off by accident; others get theirs stolen by a student, or pull it for a minor altercation, or focus on being Dirty Harry when he should be guiding his kids out the back door.
> 
> Teachers, and in this case coaches, are famously overworked and stressed.  Some of them may have been Marine snipers in a former life, sure, but taken collectively, I don't want them having to juggle firearm safety and counter-terrorism duties on top of the mountain of others they already have.


Ah yes, those unintended consequences like a 19 or 18 year old going into a school and murdering children because there wasnt a teacher with a gun.  Nice try, but my daughter would shoot first and ask questions later when it came to protecting her kids in school.


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## eagle1462010 (May 26, 2022)

Penelope said:


> that will be just great, now we can be the wild wild west. Now she can be tuff and carry a gun, just to be killed by a gun.


Fine and dandy......Wild wild west and end the nonsense going on.  Like BLM burning shit down..

Ok.


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## eagle1462010 (May 26, 2022)

How could any man sit outside as you know children are being slaughtered inside a school.  I would have went after his ass with a fucking pocket knife if that was all that was avaiable...............I guarantee you that there were better things around to use to give it a try.


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## Stann (May 26, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> My daughter while going to college, also went to the "women's weapon self defense course" and "conceal carry class".  She passed with flying colors got her permit to carry and is now a full fledge teacher.  More teachers with this capability would be the front line defense incase of a deranged Progressive moron (radicalized to hate America) wanted to come into the school with the intent to "murder" innocent children and teachers.  Have the school system pay for the security those schools so badly need.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So you're saying by bringing more guns in schools it would help solve the problem. I bet the end result will be more deaths. Thankfully teachers unions all around the country don't agree with that idea. More guns isn't the answer.


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## Canon Shooter (May 26, 2022)

I think the most distressing aspect of all of this is that the anti-American left are focused on obtaining the one thing they will _never _get: an outright ban on guns.

In order to get that, the democrats need more votes than they will ever get. They know that. They know that what they're clamoring for is something which will never be achieved.

This is why, when it comes to matters of guns, gun safety and the 2nd Amendment, they should be ignored. They've got as likely a chance as catching a unicorn that's farting rainbows as they do of getting rid of guns.

Maybe if democrats would start looking at possible solutions which are actually viable we could actually find one. The reality, though, is that they're devoid of ideas, and the facility for critical thought eludes them.


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## Mikeoxenormous (May 27, 2022)

Stann said:


> So you're saying by bringing more guns in schools it would help solve the problem. I bet the end result will be more deaths. Thankfully teachers unions all around the country don't agree with that idea. More guns isn't the answer.


The progressive answer to everything, just let the bad guy murder innocent children and adults.


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## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 1, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> My daughter while going to college, also went to the "women's weapon self defense course" and "conceal carry class".  She passed with flying colors got her permit to carry and is now a full fledge teacher.  More teachers with this capability would be the front line defense incase of a deranged Progressive moron (radicalized to hate America) wanted to come into the school with the intent to "murder" innocent children and teachers.  Have the school system pay for the security those schools so badly need.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Teachers should not have to carry guns in the classroom. Don't they have enough responsibility already?
This is a bad idea.


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## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 2, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> Teachers should not have to carry guns in the classroom. Don't they have enough responsibility already?
> This is a bad idea.


So you want more dead children and teachers?


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## SweetSue92 (Jun 2, 2022)

Circe said:


> Yeah, it's unworkable. What young girl just out of education college is going to want to continue in such a profession with all this craziness? They are mostly leftist anyway ------------------ they simply will not do it, that's that.
> 
> I am surprised rightwing men can't see that most women ARE NOT LIKE THEM.  We just aren't. (Well, maybe I am, but I'm an outlier.) Friend of mine, kept large livestock, horses, all kinds of big things, had a very -- robust, rightwing --- attitude toward politics and so on, once said to me that she hadn't realized I butchered poultry and such and she couldn't do such things as that. I was unimpressed, knowing her, and said that I knew she could if she needed to, such as in an apocalypse situation. Still, I was startled at her reflex rejection of any violence by her personally.  You can't turn us into men, guys ---- don't bother trying. Look for another solution. There isn't one, IMO, but turning women into men sure isn't the solution.



This in spades. There will be an exodus from the teaching profession like we have never seen before.


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## Unkotare (Jun 2, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> This in spades. There will be an exodus from the teaching profession like we have never seen before.





			https://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/sweet-sue.969191/


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## Woodznutz (Jun 2, 2022)

citygator said:


> Police officers hid outside for 40 minutes but an untrained female 24 year old 3rd grade teacher who was just reading “Goodnight Moon” to the  class before nap time is gonna gun down a heavily armed and armored up bad guy? Fuck off morons.


Teachers are the last line of defense.
 Maybe they should be armed and trained. 
A slim chance is better than no chance.

If a person is able to _*teach*_ others shouldn't they be able to _*learn*_ themselves?


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## Woodznutz (Jun 2, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> This in spades. There will be an exodus from the teaching profession like we have never seen before.


Let me get this straight.
Women will leave teaching if they have to defend themselves and their students, but if they are allowed to remain totally defenseless they will stay? Why don't they just rationalize and continue to believe they will never be at such risk, so their guns can be unloaded and locked away, and they can remain happily defenseless.

See how easy that was.


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## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> Teachers should not have to carry guns in the classroom. Don't they have enough responsibility already?
> This is a bad idea.


A better or worse idea than "gun free zones", which only serve to get people killed?


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## Unkotare (Jun 2, 2022)

Woodznutz said:


> Teachers are the last line of defense.
> Maybe they should be armed and trained.
> A slim chance is better than no chance.
> 
> If a person is able to _*teach*_ others shouldn't they be able to _*learn*_ themselves?


Doctors and nurses are pretty smart. Shouldn’t they be able to learn how to effectively use firearms that they carry every day while doing their work as doctors and nurses?


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## Woodznutz (Jun 2, 2022)

Unkotare said:


> Doctors and nurses are pretty smart. Shouldn’t they be able to learn how to effectively use firearms that they carry every day while doing their work as doctors and nurses?


They may if there are more such shootings.


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## SweetSue92 (Jun 2, 2022)

Woodznutz said:


> Let me get this straight.
> Women will leave teaching if they have to defend themselves and their students, but if they are allowed to remain totally defenseless they will stay? Why don't they just rationalize and continue to believe they will never be at such risk, so their guns can be unloaded and locked away, and they can remain happily defenseless.
> 
> See how easy that was.



Try this instead.

Last week you didn't trust us to choose books for second graders. Now, suddenly, we can be trusted with guns and ammo. 

Sure.

Sure we can. We know how this goes--the minute something goes wrong it's our fault entirely.

Most teachers are saying "nope" even if we are gun owners. And I am. Don't like it? Well this is what happens when you denigrate an entire profession for far too long. The Left did it with cops and look what happened. Now the Right with teachers. Horse, barn door, closed. You know the rest.


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 2, 2022)

Unkotare said:


> Doctors and nurses are pretty smart. Shouldn’t they be able to learn how to effectively use firearms that they carry every day while doing their work as doctors and nurses?


Most hospitals and clinics have security guards. Sometimes they are not armed, though.
Why don't we just make it harder for nuts to have access to guns?


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 2, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> So you want more dead children and teachers?


NO. I want less guns (ban assault rifles) and more gun control laws (stop allowing the NRA to donate money to politicians).
These steps make more sense than expecting teachers to act like policemen.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 2, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> This in spades. There will be an exodus from the teaching profession like we have never seen before.




14 states already arm some teachers and staff...you doofus.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 2, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> Try this instead.
> 
> Last week you didn't trust us to choose books for second graders. Now, suddenly, we can be trusted with guns and ammo.
> 
> ...




Books that are grooming kids for sex and political indoctrination....?

And you wouldn't be one of the armed teachers.......as a leftist you are mentally unstable....


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 2, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> Try this instead.
> 
> Last week you didn't trust us to choose books for second graders. Now, suddenly, we can be trusted with guns and ammo.
> 
> ...




Dipshit.....14 states already arm some of their teachers and support staff........so nothing you posted is close to being true, factual, or real.....


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 2, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> Most hospitals and clinics have security guards. Sometimes they are not armed, though.
> Why don't we just make it harder for nuts to have access to guns?




The local ones here have tasers....that's it.  The hospital was likely a gun free zone.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 2, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> NO. I want less guns (ban assault rifles) and more gun control laws (stop allowing the NRA to donate money to politicians).
> These steps make more sense than expecting teachers to act like policemen.



They aren't acting like police officers......they are using legal guns as a deterrent and a last line of defense....they are not pursuing or arresting anyone you dumb ass.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 3, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Books that are grooming kids for sex and political indoctrination....?
> 
> And you wouldn't be one of the armed teachers.......as a leftist you are mentally unstable....



I'm the "Leftist" who voted for Trump twice? That's....amazing.

And yes if you require teachers to arm on top of everything else there will be an exodus. But there already is one so....


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 3, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> I'm the "Leftist" who voted for Trump twice? That's....amazing.
> 
> And yes if you require teachers to arm on top of everything else there will be an exodus. But there already is one so....



14 states already allow armed teachers…there hasn’t been an exodus………..


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 3, 2022)

2aguy said:


> 14 states already allow armed teachers…there hasn’t been an exodus………..



There is a great deal of difference between allowing and requiring. We are already expected to do entirely too much for too little pay. If you don't believe me, see Free Market Principles. Are people crowding around for those super easy teaching jobs with summers off? no. huh. I wonder why.


----------



## Unkotare (Jun 3, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> .....We are already expected to do entirely too much for too little pay....


QUIT IFYOU ARE SO MISERABLE.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 3, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> There is a great deal of difference between allowing and requiring. We are already expected to do entirely too much for too little pay. If you don't believe me, see Free Market Principles. Are people crowding around for those super easy teaching jobs with summers off? no. huh. I wonder why.




Yep....dipstick......you train and arm the staff who volunteer.........and since 14 states already do it, and if there had been problems the democrat party press would have reported those problems over and over again....it is obvious that arming staff isn't the issue you have created in your mind...


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 3, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yep....dipstick......you train and arm the staff who volunteer.........and since 14 states already do it, and if there had been problems the democrat party press would have reported those problems over and over again....it is obvious that arming staff isn't the issue you have created in your mind...



14 states train and arm staff? Or 14 states allow staff to have guns/firearms if they like? There's probably a difference in the # of schools you're talking about there. If you're talking about guns in every one of our 130K + public schools--there will be problems. I'm not saying it's not worth it. I AM saying it's just one more crappy thing teachers will be blamed for.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 3, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> There is a great deal of difference between allowing and requiring. We are already expected to do entirely too much for too little pay. If you don't believe me, see Free Market Principles. Are people crowding around for those super easy teaching jobs with summers off? no. huh. I wonder why.


Tell us.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> Why don't we just make it harder for nuts to have access to guns?


It's already illegal for those adjudicated mentally infirm or involuntarily institutionalized to buy/own a gun.
How much harder can you make it than that?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> NO. I want less guns (ban assault rifles) and more gun control laws (stop allowing the NRA to donate money to politicians).


Too bad for the 1st and 2nd Amendments - right?


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 3, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> I'm the "Leftist" who voted for Trump twice? That's....amazing.
> 
> And yes if you require teachers to arm on top of everything else there will be an exodus. But there already is one so....


I'm sure many young people who thought about being teachers have changed their minds. 
You can't blame them. I wouldn't want to be a teacher now either.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> I'm sure many young people who thought about being teachers have changed their minds.


What makes you "sure" of this?


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 3, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Too bad for the 1st and 2nd Amendments - right?


There is nothing about the 1st and 2nd Amendments that say the NRA should be able to buy politicians or that 18 year old paranoid schziphrenics should be able to buy AR-15s.


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 3, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> What makes you "sure" of this?


Would you want a job where you and your students could be murdered at any time? 
Teaching is becoming more dangerous than working in a prison.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> I'm the "Leftist" who voted for Trump twice? That's....amazing.
> 
> And yes if you require teachers to arm on top of everything else there will be an exodus. But there already is one so....



No one wants to require teachers to be armed, so stop being dishonest...


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> There is nothing about the 1st and 2nd Amendments that say the NRA should be able to buy politicians...


The 1st Amendment says the NRA has the same right to lobby politicians and the UAW, NEA, NFT or any other organization.
You want to deny them that right based on the content of their speech.
Thus, a violation of the 1st Amendment.


Ms. Turquoise said:


> or that 18 year old paranoid schziphrenics should be able to buy AR-15s.


The 2nd protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms.
Unless someone has had their right to keep and bear arms removed thru due process, they are of 'the people"; AR15s are 'arms"
So, denying someone the right to own an AR15 by simply labeling them a paranoid schizophrenic, you violate the 2nd.

See how obvious that was?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> Would you want a job where you and your students could be murdered at any time?


So, you aren't "sure" at all -- you're simply projecting your irrational fears onto others.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> NO. I want less guns (ban assault rifles) and more gun control laws (stop allowing the NRA to donate money to politicians).
> These steps make more sense than expecting teachers to act like policemen.



Which one is the assault rifle?


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 3, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> So, you aren't "sure" at all -- you're simply projecting your irrational fears onto others.


I'm projecting my common sense onto others. 
Thank you.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> I'm projecting my common sense onto others.


There's no sense at all in your irrational fear.
But, fact reamins:  You arent "sure" at all.


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 3, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> The 1st Amendment says the NRA has the same right to lobby politicians and the UAW, NEA, NFT or any other organization.
> You want to deny them that right based on the content of their speech.
> Thus, a violation of the 1st Amendment.
> 
> ...


Have a nice day.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> Have a nice day.


It's OK - you don't have to thank me for setting you straight.
It's what I do.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 3, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> Try this instead.
> 
> Last week you didn't trust us to choose books for second graders. Now, suddenly, we can be trusted with guns and ammo.
> 
> ...


I don't think anyone has denigrated teachers per se. It's the whole educational system that stinks.


----------



## Unkotare (Jun 3, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> Would you want a job where you and your students could be murdered at any time?
> Teaching is becoming more dangerous than working in a prison.


Don’t be overly dramatic about it. Is it burns are very rare.


----------



## Unkotare (Jun 3, 2022)

Woodznutz said:


> I don't think anyone has denigrated teachers per se. It's the whole educational system that stinks.


Many many many people on this site have absolutely denigrated teachers many many many times. That is not an exaggeration.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 3, 2022)

Woodznutz said:


> Tell us.



It used to be that your parents raised you and you went to school to get an education. Sadly--tragically--too many children now are raised by schools. It's awful to think about, but true. And while there are people in my profession who should have NEVER gone into teaching, most truly want to teach and help. 

And frankly, society has taken advantage of that as the family has disintegrated. We do more and more and more. We are expected to feed, teach and socialize children. See to their development as people. Attend to "mental health", etc. It's not that we don't *want* to do it. It's that--who can? Who can raise 25 different children every school year and then pass them on? Etc.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 3, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> I'm sure many young people who thought about being teachers have changed their minds.
> You can't blame them. I wouldn't want to be a teacher now either.



People have accused me of not loving the kids or my profession enough because I am not putting on the Pollyanna facade. In fact the opposite is true. I cannot imagine my life without teaching....it's who I am. I'm so sad for teachers stepping into the profession now. And kids...it's all such a mess.


----------



## Unkotare (Jun 3, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> It used to be that your parents raised you and you went to school to get an education. Sadly--tragically--too many children now are raised by schools. It's awful to think about, but true. ....


No, it's not.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 3, 2022)

Given that teachers will be defending fixed locations like classrooms, instead of a pistol in a holster I think they will be better served with a rifle in a gun safe.

The rifle will be more effective, and the safe will keep it more secure.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 3, 2022)

citygator said:


> Police officers hid outside for 40 minutes but an untrained female 24 year old 3rd grade teacher who was just reading “Goodnight Moon” to the  class before nap time is gonna gun down a heavily armed and armored up bad guy?


Yes.




citygator said:


> Fuck off morons.


Do you prefer dead children?

If so, don't blame me for your choices later on.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 3, 2022)

Stann said:


> So you're saying by bringing more guns in schools it would help solve the problem.


Yes.




Stann said:


> I bet the end result will be more deaths.


It will not.




Stann said:


> Thankfully teachers unions all around the country don't agree with that idea.


Yet another reason to abolish them.




Stann said:


> More guns isn't the answer.


Then why do we have the police carry guns?


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 3, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> Teachers should not have to carry guns in the classroom. Don't they have enough responsibility already?
> This is a bad idea.


Do you prefer dead children?




Ms. Turquoise said:


> Most hospitals and clinics have security guards. Sometimes they are not armed, though.
> Why don't we just make it harder for nuts to have access to guns?


People who are a danger to themselves or others can already be prevented from having guns.  It is hard to see how it can be made any harder.




Ms. Turquoise said:


> NO. I want less guns (ban assault rifles)


Assault rifles were all but banned 90 years ago.  This is the 21st century now.




Ms. Turquoise said:


> and more gun control laws


That's vague enough to be meaningless.




Ms. Turquoise said:


> stop allowing the NRA to donate money to politicians


That would be a violation of their civil liberties.




Ms. Turquoise said:


> There is nothing about the 1st and 2nd Amendments that say the NRA should be able to buy politicians


Yes there is.  The First Amendment.

But, the NRA doesn't "buy" politicians in the first place.  What the NRA does is vote them out of office if they cross the NRA.




Ms. Turquoise said:


> or that 18 year old paranoid schziphrenics should be able to buy AR-15s.


That's why people who a court finds to be a danger to themselves or others can be prevented from having guns.




Ms. Turquoise said:


> Would you want a job where you and your students could be murdered at any time?


You're the one who is arguing for defenseless teachers.




Ms. Turquoise said:


> I'm projecting my common sense onto others.


Anyone who either supports fascism or opposes civil liberties always invokes some variation of "common sense".


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 3, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> So you want more dead children and teachers?


That is exactly what the left wants.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 3, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> Most teachers are saying "nope" even if we are gun owners. And I am. Don't like it? Well this is what happens when you denigrate an entire profession for far too long. The Left did it with cops and look what happened. Now the Right with teachers. Horse, barn door, closed. You know the rest.


If you would rather be defenseless in the face of a massacre, that is fine with me.

But don't come whining at me if that backfires on you.


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 3, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Do you prefer dead children?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow! You came up with a rightwing talking point for almost everything I posted. Good for you.
Carry on.


----------



## Mashmont (Jun 3, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> My daughter while going to college, also went to the "women's weapon self defense course" and "conceal carry class".  She passed with flying colors got her permit to carry and is now a full fledge teacher.  More teachers with this capability would be the front line defense incase of a deranged Progressive moron (radicalized to hate America) wanted to come into the school with the intent to "murder" innocent children and teachers.  Have the school system pay for the security those schools so badly need.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is absolutely true.  Arming teachers would work, and that's why the left doesn't want any part of it.  They aren't looking for a solution;  they want the issue.
In every high school, there are plenty of men, we all know the type,  who really care about the kids and would be willing to be trained to protect these kids.  I'm thinking coaches, ex-military, etc.   Every school has them.
  But typically, the leftwing media interviews some wimpy activist woman teacher who says "We are teachers, not security guards.  We are here to teach".  The media acts like arming teachers would be mandatory, and that's a lie.


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 3, 2022)

I wonder what it will take to get serious gun control laws on the books?
When will the gun enthusiasts start loving children more than their guns?
The 1st or 2nd Amendments do not protect the insanity we are  seeing with these school shootings.


----------



## Rigby5 (Jun 4, 2022)

Teachers are "en loco parentis" which means they have the responsibility for our children's safety when the children are at school.
If teachers are not willing to shoot in order to defend our children, then stop asking for tax money and we will teach them at home.


----------



## Slade3200 (Jun 4, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> My daughter while going to college, also went to the "women's weapon self defense course" and "conceal carry class".  She passed with flying colors got her permit to carry and is now a full fledge teacher.  More teachers with this capability would be the front line defense incase of a deranged Progressive moron (radicalized to hate America) wanted to come into the school with the intent to "murder" innocent children and teachers.  Have the school system pay for the security those schools so badly need.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Arm the groomers!!!


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 4, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> If you would rather be defenseless in the face of a massacre, that is fine with me.
> 
> But don't come whining at me if that backfires on you.


 
Who are you and why would I ever come "whining" or otherwise at you?


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 4, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> Teachers are "en loco parentis" which means they have the responsibility for our children's safety when the children are at school.
> If teachers are not willing to shoot in order to defend our children, then stop asking for tax money and we will teach them at home.



Really. How far does that go? If every teacher is now required to shoot to kill to defend students, what other parental duties should we be required to fill during school hours? Taking them to the dentist? Giving them their vitamins?


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 4, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> Arm the groomers!!!



We live in a clown world. This is exactly the turn they have taken in seven days' time.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 4, 2022)

Mashmont said:


> This is absolutely true.  Arming teachers would work, and that's why the left doesn't want any part of it.  They aren't looking for a solution;  they want the issue.
> In every high school, there are plenty of men, we all know the type,  who really care about the kids and would be willing to be trained to protect these kids.  I'm thinking coaches, ex-military, etc.   Every school has them.
> But typically, the leftwing media interviews some wimpy activist woman teacher who says "We are teachers, not security guards.  We are here to teach".  The media acts like arming teachers would be mandatory, and that's a lie.



It is wholly possible to "really care about the kids" and yet think of a million reasons why you don't want a gun in your classroom. Even if you are a 2nd amendment proponent. Age of students, number of students you have in your classroom, demographics of students you teach, etc. There is no one way to "really care about the kids". Having a gun in your room--believe this--is not a litmus test for "really caring about the kids".

Honestly, just typing that last sentence is crazy. This is the clown world we live in.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 4, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> It is wholly possible to "really care about the kids" and yet think of a million reasons why you don't want a gun in your classroom. Even if you are a 2nd amendment proponent. Age of students, number of students you have in your classroom, demographics of students you teach, etc. There is no one way to "really care about the kids". Having a gun in your room--believe this--is not a litmus test for "really caring about the kids".
> 
> Honestly, just typing that last sentence is crazy. This is the clown world we live in.


No one is going to force you to carry.  It's a suggestion should this happen to you.  No one is calling you a groomer.  It is for those who like in Leon County of Tallahassee Florida who tried to change a 13 year old girl into a boy.  Allowed her to go to the boys bathroom and gave her a new nickname.  Then told her to not tell her parents.  When the parents found out they said it was against the law to tell her which was a lie.  They had a manual which basically instructed the teachers to not tell the parents.

This is what prompted the new law in Florida and rightfully so.  Do I call those teachers GROOMERS.............Your DAMNED STRAIGHT I DO.........I DIDN'T CALL ALL TEACHERS GROOMERS..........that is BS.

Now if you are fed up with teaching QUIT.  I like your posting on almost everything til now.   But I'm tired of this whine fest.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 4, 2022)

There is no way to stop all of these shootings.  You can only take simple measures to give those who are attacked a fighting chance if it does happen.

Many teachers could conceal carry.  If would give some in the school the ability to defend not only themselves but the kids.  It is simple and the cheapest SIMPLE SOLUTION.

The other solutions are just having Bear Mace or even wasp spray.  If the shooter can't see then he's gonna have a harder time killing you.  Only simple solutions are needed.  Building a fortress will not stop the next shooting and would cost a fortune.  Pay the teachers to carry who CHOOSE TO CARRY.

They will make money on something we hope they will never need.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 4, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> No one is going to force you to carry.  It's a suggestion should this happen to you.  No one is calling you a groomer.  It is for those who like in Leon County of Tallahassee Florida who tried to change a 13 year old girl into a boy.  Allowed her to go to the boys bathroom and gave her a new nickname.  Then told her to not tell her parents.  When the parents found out they said it was against the law to tell her which was a lie.  They had a manual which basically instructed the teachers to not tell the parents.
> 
> This is what prompted the new law in Florida and rightfully so.  Do I call those teachers GROOMERS.............Your DAMNED STRAIGHT I DO.........I DIDN'T CALL ALL TEACHERS GROOMERS..........that is BS.
> 
> Now if you are fed up with teaching QUIT.  I like your posting on almost everything til now.   But I'm tired of this whine fest.



I wasn't even responding to you.


----------



## candycorn (Jun 4, 2022)

If our public schools were in another nation, they would likely be a lot safer.  Every other advanced nation on earth has solved the gun problem without arming 62 y/o teachers or janitors.  

Somehow we can't "lower ourselves" to adopting what they do.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 4, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> I wasn't even responding to you.


I'm responding in general.  I like your posts..........but we disagree here.

No one is forcing you to arm yourself.  It is a SUGGESTION.........I know our society is going to shit and you are dealing with it too.  The family is broken in this country and parents are too busy from trying to survive to spend enough time with their children.  I used to work all day and then hours helping my daughter with math afterwards..........it comes with the territory of having kids.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 4, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> I'm responding in general.  I like your posts..........but we disagree here.
> 
> No one is forcing you to arm yourself.  It is a SUGGESTION.........I know our society is going to shit and you are dealing with it too.  The family is broken in this country and parents are too busy from trying to survive to spend enough time with their children.  I used to work all day and then hours helping my daughter with math afterwards..........it comes with the territory of having kids.



We do not even disagree. We agree that teachers who want to arm can arm. 

I am pointing out that people are doing to teachers what they always do: if you REALLY cared, you would arm yourself/tutor your kids on the weekend/buy more supplies with your own money/whatever. 

It is out of concern for the fact that very, very few people are going into AND STAYING in this profession that I tell people: I am not Jesus Christ, just a follower of Him. I do not have endless wells of compassion, healing, patience, goodness, kindness and love. I am merely a human. In order to give my best I need things regular humans need, like resources. For starters.

And I don't belong to the union--I loathe the teacher unions. But the expectation society has placed on us for the respect we get back has gotten so bad that no one is going into it. Count this another crisis. Many people just don't realize it yet.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 4, 2022)

Unkotare said:


> Many many many people on this site have absolutely denigrated teachers many many many times. That is not an exaggeration.


Teachers are the 'blunt instrument' of the educational system. It is said, "don't kill the messenger". However, teachers have bought into the message, so they are open for criticism.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 4, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> It used to be that your parents raised you and you went to school to get an education. Sadly--tragically--too many children now are raised by schools. It's awful to think about, but true. And while there are people in my profession who should have NEVER gone into teaching, most truly want to teach and help.
> 
> And frankly, society has taken advantage of that as the family has disintegrated. We do more and more and more. We are expected to feed, teach and socialize children. See to their development as people. Attend to "mental health", etc. It's not that we don't *want* to do it. It's that--who can? Who can raise 25 different children every school year and then pass them on? Etc.


If teachers are surrogate moms perhaps we should return to the one-room schoolhouse model, where grades K through 8 are taught by the same teacher. Those teachers helped shape the character of kids more than today's teachers do. That would give the kids continuity and security. She should also know how to handle a gun.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 4, 2022)

Woodznutz said:


> Teachers are the 'blunt instrument' of the educational system. It is said, "don't kill the messenger". However, teachers have bought into the message, so they are open for criticism.



Let me tell you what happens as a result of constant criticism. One: the public has a big ask and the teachers say, "You know what? Nah"

Two: teachers quit and retire early

Three: Fewer and fewer young people go into teaching

Congrats. All three above are in play.


----------



## Mashmont (Jun 4, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> It is wholly possible to "really care about the kids" and yet think of a million reasons why you don't want a gun in your classroom. Even if you are a 2nd amendment proponent. Age of students, number of students you have in your classroom, demographics of students you teach, etc. There is no one way to "really care about the kids". Having a gun in your room--believe this--is not a litmus test for "really caring about the kids".
> 
> Honestly, just typing that last sentence is crazy. This is the clown world we live in.


I never said unarmed teachers don't care for kids;  I said there are teachers who really care about kids who would be eager to be trained to defend them with firearms.  These volunteers would be mostly male teachers.  The coaches and the ex-military.  I would have done it back when I taught math in high school.  Absolutely.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 4, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Given that teachers will be defending fixed locations like classrooms, instead of a pistol in a holster I think they will be better served with a rifle in a gun safe.
> 
> The rifle will be more effective, and the safe will keep it more secure.


The gun should always be loaded and at the ready when kids are present. I agree that a 'shoulder fired' weapon is best.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 4, 2022)

Mashmont said:


> I never said unarmed teachers don't care for kids;  I said there are teachers who really care about kids who would be eager to be trained to defend them with firearms.  These volunteers would be mostly male teachers.  The coaches and the ex-military.  I would have done it back when I taught math in high school.  Absolutely.



Fair enough. 

Speaking broadly--but it still fits. You would almost certainly find more male secondary math teachers willing to be armed at school than female Kindergarten teachers. Kindergarten teachers should not be looked down on for this. Not saying you did, just a general statement.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 4, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> Let me tell you what happens as a result of constant criticism. One: the public has a big ask and the teachers say, "You know what? Nah"
> 
> Two: teachers quit and retire early
> 
> ...


Don't teachers have a say in the curriculum?


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 4, 2022)

Woodznutz said:


> Don't teachers have a say in the curriculum?



Uh no. Almost never. It is set forth by the nation, state and district.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 4, 2022)

Mashmont said:


> This is absolutely true.  Arming teachers would work, and that's why the left doesn't want any part of it.  They aren't looking for a solution;  they want the issue.
> In every high school, there are plenty of men, we all know the type,  who really care about the kids and would be willing to be trained to protect these kids.  I'm thinking coaches, ex-military, etc.   Every school has them.
> But typically, the leftwing media interviews some wimpy activist woman teacher who says "We are teachers, not security guards.  We are here to teach".  The media acts like arming teachers would be mandatory, and that's a lie.


I just googled the proportion of male vs female teachers. It seems that only 25 percent of teachers are male, and declining. This certainly diminishes the 'father figure', which is sorely needed in some schools.

When I went through K through sixth grade all my teachers were women. Seventh grade through twelfth almost all male teachers. Several were WW2 combat veterans. Almost no discipline problems.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 4, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> Uh no. Almost never. It is set forth by the nation, state and district.


Do you think that is a problem?


----------



## Unkotare (Jun 4, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> Let me tell you what happens as a result of constant criticism. One: the public has a big ask and the teachers say, "You know what? Nah"
> 
> Two: teachers quit and retire early
> 
> ...


QUIT IF YOU WANT TO QUIT SO BADLY. STOP BITCHING AND QUIT.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 4, 2022)

candycorn said:


> If our public schools were in another nation, they would likely be a lot safer.  Every other advanced nation on earth has solved the gun problem without arming 62 y/o teachers or janitors.
> 
> Somehow we can't "lower ourselves" to adopting what they do.


America is still the "wild west", not quite civilized. We still are unable to teach our kids how to care for their teeth.









						Children’s Dental Health Disparities
					

Tooth decay is the most common chronic disease among U.S. children, five times as prevalent as asthma, and dental care is one of the nation’s greatest unmet children’s health needs, especially in low-income, minority, and rural communities.




					www.pewtrusts.org


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 4, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> Teachers are "en loco parentis" which means they have the responsibility for our children's safety when the children are at school.
> If teachers are not willing to shoot in order to defend our children, then stop asking for tax money and we will teach them at home.


If we continue to have these school shootings, lots of parents are going to be home schooling their children.
Teachers are going to be in very short supply. They are not supposed to teach the kids AND be police officers too. The job doesn't pay enough to do both things. People will go into another career, and leave teaching.
Why don't we just stop the NRA from buying our politicians? Why don't we change our gun laws? Why don't we make AR-15s illegal? That would be easier than making teachers carry guns.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 4, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> Let me tell you what happens as a result of constant criticism. One: the public has a big ask and the teachers say, "You know what? Nah"
> 
> Two: teachers quit and retire early
> 
> ...


Why is there 'constant criticism' of teachers?


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 4, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> If we continue to have these school shootings, lots of parents are going to be home schooling their children.
> Teachers are going to be in very short supply. They are not supposed to teach the kids AND be police officers too. The job doesn't pay enough to do both things. People will go into another career, and leave teaching.
> Why don't we just stop the NRA from buying our politicians? Why don't we change our gun laws? Why don't we make AR-15s illegal? That would be easier than making teachers carry guns.


Arming teachers would have an immediate protective effect, which seems to be needed until long-term protections are put in place.


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 4, 2022)

candycorn said:


> If our public schools were in another nation, they would likely be a lot safer.  Every other advanced nation on earth has solved the gun problem without arming 62 y/o teachers or janitors.
> 
> Somehow we can't "lower ourselves" to adopting what they do.


1) The NRA and their paid employees (our politicians) prevent common sense gun laws from being enacted in the USA.
2) Every other advanced nation loves their children more than they love guns.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 4, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> Why don't we change our gun laws? Why don't we make AR-15s illegal? That would be easier than making teachers carry guns.


These nuts would just use another weapon, and you're back where you started...blaming the weapon. 

If you want to reduce gun violence, lock up the drug addicts.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 4, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> 1) The NRA and their paid employees (our politicians) prevent common sense gun laws from being enacted in the USA.
> 2) Every other advanced nation loves their children more than they love guns.


We are not an advanced nation, in fact we are looking more like a third world nation thanks to our immigration policies.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 4, 2022)

Woodznutz said:


> These nuts would just use another weapon, and you're back where you started...blaming the weapon.
> 
> If you want to reduce gun violence, lock up the drug addicts.



''lock up the drug addicts.'' ... and gang bangers found in possession of illegal firearms and violent recidivist criminals with arms length rap sheets and drug dealers carrying firearms. 

The dems won't do that.


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 4, 2022)

Woodznutz said:


> We are not an advanced nation, in fact we are looking more like a third world nation thanks to our immigration policies.


I believe our gun laws and the repeal of Roe vs Wade make us look like a third world nation more so than immigration policies.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 4, 2022)

Woodznutz said:


> Why is there 'constant criticism' of teachers?



Because I guess conservatives must do what the Left did to police. See a video that's bad, it's all teachers. Just like BLM did with cops-- all cops are racists.

Funny how you could see that so clearly with BLM but not when you do it.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 4, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> Because I guess conservatives must do what the Left did to police. See a video that's bad, it's all teachers. Just like BLM did with cops-- all cops are racists.
> 
> Funny how you could see that so clearly with BLM but not when you do it.


But you seem to be willingly carrying out policies that come from 'above' that people object to. Don't teachers question these policies?


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 4, 2022)

Woodznutz said:


> These nuts would just use another weapon, and you're back where you started...blaming the weapon.
> 
> If you want to reduce gun violence, lock up the drug addicts.


Please. That is a deflection. It is about more than drug addiction.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 4, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> Please. That is a deflection. It is about more than drug addiction.


Not a deflection. Drug addiction is the first domino to fall. Locking up addicts is absolutely necessary if we want to reduce gun violence.

Sadly, so many people use pot that it's unlikely that needed drug-use laws will ever even be proposed. Pot users generally defend the use of all drugs, regardless of knowing the damage they do.


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 4, 2022)

Woodznutz said:


> Not a deflection. Drug addiction is the first domino to fall. Locking up addicts is absolutely necessary if we want to reduce gun violence.
> 
> Sadly, so many people use pot that it's unlikely that needed drug-use laws will ever even be proposed. Pot users generally defend the use of all drugs, regardless of knowing the damage they do.


Was Dylynn Roof a drug user? Payton Gendron? The one who shot up the school in Uvalde, Texas? The one who shot up the Wal-Mart in El Paso, Texas?
And all the others too numerous to name? Were they drug addicts?
Were drugs the issue or was the easy access to guns the issue? I think it was the latter.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 4, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> Was Dylynn Roof a drug user? Payton Gendron? The one who shot up the school in Uvalde, Texas? The one who shot up the Wal-Mart in El Paso, Texas?
> And all the others too numerous to name? Were they drug addicts?
> Were drugs the issue or was the easy access to guns the issue? I think it was the latter.


Locking up drug addicts will reduce gun violence more effectively than any other response. The purpose is to target general gun violence, not specific kinds of gun violence. Drug addiction also contributes to suicide by use of a gun. Restoring a better sense of order to society would certainly reduce suicides, especially among the young.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 4, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> Wow! You came up with a rightwing talking point for almost everything I posted. Good for you.
> Carry on.


It's interesting how people always equate "telling the truth" with conservatism.




Ms. Turquoise said:


> I wonder what it will take to get serious gun control laws on the books?


That has already been done some 90 years ago.

We live in the 21st century now.




Ms. Turquoise said:


> When will the gun enthusiasts start loving children more than their guns?


There is no conflict between the two.




Ms. Turquoise said:


> 1) The NRA and their paid employees (our politicians) prevent common sense gun laws from being enacted in the USA.


It never fails that anyone who supports fascism or opposes civil liberties will always invoke some variation of "common sense".




Ms. Turquoise said:


> 2) Every other advanced nation loves their children more than they love guns.


There is still no conflict between the two.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 4, 2022)

candycorn said:


> If our public schools were in another nation, they would likely be a lot safer.  Every other advanced nation on earth has solved the gun problem without arming 62 y/o teachers or janitors.


There is no gun problem that anyone needs to solve, them or us.


----------



## candycorn (Jun 4, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> There is no gun problem that anyone needs to solve, them or us.


Did you miss the most recent school massacre?


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 4, 2022)

candycorn said:


> Did you miss the most recent school massacre?


I haven't given it much thought, but I am aware that there was an incident.


----------



## candycorn (Jun 5, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I haven't given it much thought


clearly


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 5, 2022)

candycorn said:


> Did you miss the most recent school massacre?


Uvalde proved that there must be a "plan B" if "Plan A" fails.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 6, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> I wonder what it will take to get serious gun control laws on the books?


When the Democrats come up with something that is neither unnecessary nor ineffective,
So far, they are batting .000


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 6, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> Why don't we just stop the NRA from buying our politicians? Why don't we make AR-15s illegal?


You already know the answer - why do you keep asking the question?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 6, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> 1) The NRA and their paid employees (our politicians) prevent common sense gun laws from being enacted in the USA.


There's no sense whatsoever to unnecessary and ineffective restrictions to the exercise of the right to keep and bear arms by the law abiding.


Ms. Turquoise said:


> 2) Every other advanced nation loves their children more than they love guns.


The fact you cannot demonstrate this to be true aside...
Fallacy:  Appeal to popularity


----------



## surada (Jun 6, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> So you want more dead children and teachers?



She's right. It's not fair to put this responsibility on teachers so you can have multiple guns and unlimited ammunition. It's a cop out by all you Kyle Rittenhouse wannabes.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 6, 2022)

surada said:


> She's right. It's not fair to put this responsibility on teachers so you can have multiple guns and unlimited ammunition. It's a cop out by all you Kyle Rittenhouse wannabes.


You are your own first responder.
If you don't want that responsibility, that's fine, but then you place your life in the hands of others.


----------



## surada (Jun 6, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> It's interesting how people always equate "telling the truth" with conservatism.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fascism has always been racist, nationalistic, authoritarian.. look at Hitler, Mussolini, Franco.. Hitler revoked the gun laws in Germany. He knew how to appeal to the populist mob.


----------



## surada (Jun 6, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> You are your own first responder.
> If you don't want that responsibility, that's fine, but then you place your life in the hands of others.



You think every 24 year old school teacher should be responsible for protecting our children so you can have your gun rights? Do you have any children?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 6, 2022)

surada said:


> You think every 24 year old school teacher should be responsible for protecting our children so you can have your gun rights? Do you have any children?


Like I said:
If -you- don't want that responsibility, that's fine, but then you place your life in the hands of others.     
Don't presume to make that choice for me or anyone else.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 6, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> I believe our gun laws and the repeal of Roe vs Wade make us look like a third world nation more so than immigration policies.


I actually agree with your Roe vs Wade statement.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 6, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> I wonder what it will take to get serious gun control laws on the books?
> When will the gun enthusiasts start loving children more than their guns?
> The 1st or 2nd Amendments do not protect the insanity we are  seeing with these school shootings.


_Insanity_ is a legal defense that mitigates responsibility, and should not be used in these cases. _Anger _and_ evil _are more responsible than mental defect.


----------



## Unkotare (Jun 6, 2022)

surada said:


> You think every 24 year old school teacher should be responsible for protecting our children .....


Every teacher of any age is responsible for the protection of the students in their care.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 6, 2022)

surada said:


> She's right. It's not fair to put this responsibility on teachers so you can have multiple guns and unlimited ammunition. It's a cop out by all you Kyle Rittenhouse wannabes.


The responsibility is being put on teachers because it will save the lives of their students.  It has nothing to do with the fact that we will be keeping our guns and ammo.




surada said:


> You think every 24 year old school teacher should be responsible for protecting our children so you can have your gun rights? Do you have any children?


No.  They should be responsible for protecting children so the children will be protected.

It has nothing to do with the fact that we have gun rights.


----------



## surada (Jun 6, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> The responsibility is being put on teachers because it will save the lives of their students.  It has nothing to do with the fact that we will be keeping our guns and ammo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do you have a daughter? Is she a teacher? Foisting this responsibility off on teachers is a cop out.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 6, 2022)

surada said:


> Do you have a daughter? Is she a teacher? Foisting this responsibility off on teachers is a cop out.


If you want to let kids keep on getting slaughtered, fine with me.  Just don't start whining about it when the next massacre happens.


----------



## surada (Jun 6, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> If you want to let kids keep on getting slaughtered, fine with me.  Just don't start whining about it when the next massacre happens.



You see what you're doing? Abbott makes the same speech for the six mass shootings since he's been governor. The GOP blames mental health, teachers, cops, doors, the Democrats... And, now you lay a guilt trip on teachers. You want them to be responsible for our children's safety.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 6, 2022)

surada said:


> You see what you're doing? Abbott makes the same speech for the six mass shootings since he's been governor. The GOP blames mental health, teachers, cops, doors, the Democrats... And, now you lay a guilt trip on teachers. You want them to be responsible for our children's safety.


If you don't want to save the kids, fine with me.  That's between you and the kids.

Just don't come whining if you later regret your choices.  I will not be even a little bit sympathetic.


----------



## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 7, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> I wonder what it will take to get serious gun control laws on the books?
> When will the gun enthusiasts start loving children more than their guns?
> The 1st or 2nd Amendments do not protect the insanity we are  seeing with these school shootings.


I have children and i have weapons that can be used to kill people, yet not one of my weapons has taken a life....yet.  But when the economy goes to shit, and this country goes full on retarded anarchy, i think my weapons will be more valuable then along with my children who will take arms against those that has caused this great country to go down the shitter, and those that voted for those who made this country that way.....


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 7, 2022)

surada said:


> Do you have a daughter? Is she a teacher? Foisting this responsibility off on teachers is a cop out.


Armed teachers would be the last line of defense if all others failed.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 7, 2022)

surada said:


> Do you have a daughter? Is she a teacher? Foisting this responsibility off on teachers is a cop out.


If -you- don't want that responsibility, that's fine, but then you place your life in the hands of others.    
Don't presume to make that choice for me or anyone else.


----------



## surada (Jun 7, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> If -you- don't want that responsibility, that's fine, but then you place your life in the hands of others.
> Don't presume to make that choice for me or anyone else.


Right. You want your guns but you want teachers to protect your children.


----------



## Unkotare (Jun 7, 2022)

surada said:


> You see what you're doing? Abbott makes the same speech for the six mass shootings since he's been governor. The GOP blames mental health, teachers, cops, doors, the Democrats... And, now you lay a guilt trip on teachers. You want them to be responsible for our children's safety.


We already are.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 7, 2022)

surada said:


> Right. You want your guns but you want teachers to protect your children.


You choose to not understand the issue.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 7, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> My daughter while going to college, also went to the "women's weapon self defense course" and "conceal carry class".  She passed with flying colors got her permit to carry and is now a full fledge teacher.  More teachers with this capability would be the front line defense incase of a deranged Progressive moron (radicalized to hate America) wanted to come into the school with the intent to "murder" innocent children and teachers.  Have the school system pay for the security those schools so badly need.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wrong.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Jun 7, 2022)

Pellinore said:


> The idea that classrooms would be safer by having firearms introduced into them is madness to me.
> 
> The answer to this part of the problem is SROs.  They didn't stop the guy at this one data point, but they do a lot of good.



You mean like the guy in Parkland, who ran away?



Canon Shooter said:


> I think the most distressing aspect of all of this is that the anti-American left are focused on obtaining the one thing they will _never _get: an outright ban on guns.
> 
> In order to get that, the democrats need more votes than they will ever get. They know that. They know that what they're clamoring for is something which will never be achieved.
> 
> ...


The gun-haters WANT violence. They NEED dead bodies. They CELEBRATE school shootings. It helps their agenda.


Ms. Turquoise said:


> Most hospitals and clinics have security guards. Sometimes they are not armed, though.
> Why don't we just make it harder for nuts to have access to guns?


Because criminals will always be armed.


Ms. Turquoise said:


> NO. I want less guns (ban assault rifles) and more gun control laws (stop allowing the NRA to donate money to politicians).
> These steps make more sense than expecting teachers to act like policemen.


You want guns limited to the rich, the well connected, and criminals.


SweetSue92 said:


> I'm the "Leftist" who voted for Trump twice? That's....amazing.
> 
> And yes if you require teachers to arm on top of everything else there will be an exodus. But there already is one so....


Nobody but you has suggested requiring teachers to be armed.


----------



## Calypso Jones (Jun 7, 2022)

is bodecea and surada the same person?   LOLOL


----------



## Jarlaxle (Jun 7, 2022)

Woodznutz said:


> I just googled the proportion of male vs female teachers. It seems that only 25 percent of teachers are male, and declining. This certainly diminishes the 'father figure', which is sorely needed in some schools.
> 
> When I went through K through sixth grade all my teachers were women. Seventh grade through twelfth almost all male teachers. Several were WW2 combat veterans. Almost no discipline problems.


Any man going into teaching needs his head examined.


----------



## Unkotare (Jun 7, 2022)

Jarlaxle said:


> Any man going into teaching needs his head examined.


Some people care about students. Some people care about the future of our nation.


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 7, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> I have children and i have weapons that can be used to kill people, yet not one of my weapons has taken a life....yet.  But when the economy goes to shit, and this country goes full on retarded anarchy, i think my weapons will be more valuable then along with my children who will take arms against those that has caused this great country to go down the shitter, and those that voted for those who made this country that way.....
> 
> View attachment 654827


When the economy goes to "s***" will you and your kids be able to eat your guns?


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 7, 2022)

surada said:


> Right. You want your guns but you want teachers to protect your children.


There is NO way I'd carry a gun in the classroom, if I were a school teacher. They don't pay enough.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 7, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> When the economy goes to "s***" will you and your kids be able to eat your guns?


He will be able to defend what food he has.


----------



## Unkotare (Jun 7, 2022)

The teaching staff was almost certainly following lockdown protocol and therefore would have each been in their respective classrooms, doors locked, lights off, standing between their students and said door, with the kids on the floor in a corner away from doors or windows. They would remain thus until informed by police that the lockdown was over. If one out of every 100 teachers were armed, they wouldn't have been able to do squat unless the shooter happened to somehow break into those specific classrooms.


----------



## EvMetro (Jun 7, 2022)

Teachers need to have guns.  So do librarians.


----------



## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 7, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> When the economy goes to "s***" will you and your kids be able to eat your guns?


Bwaaaahhaaaaaa.....Those guns, will provide my kids and me plenty of food while the grocery stores will be robbed by the progressive slaves because they dont know any other way to feed them.


----------



## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 7, 2022)

Unkotare said:


> The teaching staff was almost certainly following lockdown protocol and therefore would have each been in their respective classrooms, doors locked, lights off, standing between their students and said door, with the kids on the floor in a corner away from doors or windows. They would remain thus until informed by police that the lockdown was over. If one out of every 100 teachers were armed, they wouldn't have been able to do squat unless the shooter happened to somehow break into those specific classrooms.


And that is why teachers should be armed, but not have a list of each teacher who carries, because then the progressive shooter, no longer gets cart blanche, because he is thinking "Could this room be the one that will shoot back, or not"?  My daughter knows that if perp enters her room, she is to empty her magazine, reload, then empty it again.  Then notify the principle that it is all clear.


----------



## Unkotare (Jun 7, 2022)

Once again: "locked door."


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 7, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> If teachers were given the option to conceal carry, schools would be a lot safer.


Wrong.

“Most law enforcement experts agree that school staff should not carry guns because they lack the tactical knowledge of handling weapons that trained law enforcement personnel receive on a regular basis. Even if the funding for the weapons and training were to be available after massive cuts to education budgets, educators carrying concealed weapons pose too high a risk to school safety.”









						Arming Teachers is Not the Answer | NEA
					

The idea that we can reduce gun violence in schools by bringing even more guns into schools is ludicrous and dangerous. Educators, parents and students are demanding common sense solutions that will actually save lives.




					www.nea.org
				




“Concealed carry laws do not appear to significantly reduce homicides or other violent crimes; placing armed guards in schools does not protect them from mass shootings. In fact, one study found that schools with armed guards were more likely to have a higher death toll during a mass shooting.”









						A child can’t be a "good guy with a gun"
					

How a gun rights myth paved the way for nightmares like Uvalde.




					www.vox.com


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 7, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Wrong.


Not wrong.  Teachers are clearly more willing to confront mass shooters than police officers are.




C_Clayton_Jones said:


> “Most law enforcement experts agree that school staff should not carry guns because they lack the tactical knowledge of handling weapons that trained law enforcement personnel receive on a regular basis. Even if the funding for the weapons and training were to be available after massive cuts to education budgets, educators carrying concealed weapons pose too high a risk to school safety.”
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fake news.

Many police officers receive little firearms training from their department, and many police officers are less willing to confront shooters than teachers are.

It also doesn't take a lot of training to fire a rifle defensively.  And it would be easy enough to give teachers what training they did require.




C_Clayton_Jones said:


> “Concealed carry laws do not appear to significantly reduce homicides or other violent crimes; placing armed guards in schools does not protect them from mass shootings. In fact, one study found that schools with armed guards were more likely to have a higher death toll during a mass shooting.”
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Funny how the shootings only end when someone shows up with a gun to confront the shooter.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 7, 2022)

surada said:


> Right. You want your guns but you want teachers to protect your children.


We're certainly going to keep our guns.

I for one don't care if you choose to protect children or not.  But if you choose badly, don't come to me later on looking for sympathy.


-----------------------------------------------------------


C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Wrong.


I see no errors in anything that he said.


-----------------------------------------------------------


Ms. Turquoise said:


> When the economy goes to "s***" will you and your kids be able to eat your guns?


Guns can indeed be used to provide food.


-----------------------------------------------------------


Woodznutz said:


> He will be able to defend what food he has.


And also hunt and acquire more.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 7, 2022)

Unkotare said:


> The teaching staff was almost certainly following lockdown protocol and therefore would have each been in their respective classrooms, doors locked, lights off, standing between their students and said door, with the kids on the floor in a corner away from doors or windows. They would remain thus until informed by police that the lockdown was over. If one out of every 100 teachers were armed, they wouldn't have been able to do squat unless the shooter happened to somehow break into those specific classrooms.


That last line is key: "unless the shooter happened to somehow break into those specific classrooms".

A rifle in that teacher's hands would be quite useful if that happened.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 7, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Wrong.
> 
> “Most law enforcement experts agree that school staff should not carry guns because they lack the tactical knowledge of handling weapons that trained law enforcement personnel receive on a regular basis. Even if the funding for the weapons and training were to be available after massive cuts to education budgets, educators carrying concealed weapons pose too high a risk to school safety.”


So, teachers are able to teach, but are not able to learn. Interesting.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 9, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> We're certainly going to keep our guns.
> 
> I for one don't care if you choose to protect children or not.  But if you choose badly, don't come to me later on looking for sympathy.
> 
> ...


Arming teachers isn't the answer, it's reckless, irresponsible idiocy.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 9, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Arming teachers isn't the answer, it's reckless, irresponsible idiocy.


Nonsense.  Teachers are just as able to fire guns as anyone else.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 10, 2022)

Any teacher who feels confident in their ability to handle a situation like a school shooting should be able to carry a gun.
My high school, like many others, had 2 combat veterans on staff - no reason whatsoever they should not be able ot have a gun.

Those who while and cry about wanting to arm all the teachers deliberately mal-understand the issue, because they do not want anything to get in the way of school shootings -- dead kids, you see, are a great way to push unnecessary and ineffective gun control laws.


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 10, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> Bwaaaahhaaaaaa.....Those guns, will provide my kids and me plenty of food while the grocery stores will be robbed by the progressive slaves because they dont know any other way to feed them.


Keep dreaming.


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 10, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Arming teachers isn't the answer, it's reckless, irresponsible idiocy.


The gun enthusiasts don't think about all the things that can go wrong with having a gun around a classroom. All they care about is using ANY excuse to keep their guns. Next they'll be saying the first graders should be taught gun safety, so they can conceal and carry.


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 10, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Nonsense.  Teachers are just as able to fire guns as anyone else.


But---they shouldn't have to. Their job description does not include police work.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 10, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> Keep dreaming.


That guns are used to provide food is not a dream.




Ms. Turquoise said:


> The gun enthusiasts don't think about all the things that can go wrong with having a gun around a classroom. All they care about is using ANY excuse to keep their guns.


We don't need an excuse.  We're just going to keep our guns.




Ms. Turquoise said:


> But---they shouldn't have to. Their job description does not include police work.


If you want to leave the kids defenseless, go ahead.  But don't come to me looking for sympathy when there is another massacre.


----------



## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 10, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> Keep dreaming.


Not a dream, dumbass....But if you feel that i am lying you could always meet up somewhere...


----------



## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 10, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> The gun enthusiasts don't think about all the things that can go wrong with having a gun around a classroom. All they care about is using ANY excuse to keep their guns. Next they'll be saying the first graders should be taught gun safety, so they can conceal and carry.


You are so full of shit.  Are you saying that a woman is incompetent to protect a child?  Progressive women i would agree that they are incompetent.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 10, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> The gun enthusiasts don't think about all the things that can go wrong with having a gun around a classroom. All they care about is using ANY excuse to keep their guns. Next they'll be saying the first graders should be taught gun safety, so they can conceal and carry.


Did you notice how you have to mis-represent our position so you can argue against it?


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 10, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Did you notice how you have to mis-represent our position so you can argue against it?


What did I misrepresent?


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 10, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> You are so full of shit.  Are you saying that a woman is incompetent to protect a child?  Progressive women i would agree that they are incompetent.


You have lost the debate ( by insulting me) so I'll put you on IGNORE. Have a nice day.


----------



## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 11, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> You have lost the debate ( by insulting me) so I'll put you on IGNORE. Have a nice day.


What a stupid remark.  I asked this cretin a very important question "IS A WOMAN INCAPABLE OF PROTECTING A CHILD", and this creature couldnt answer.  I wonder if she is black and nominated to the supreme court?









						48 Times Ketanji Brown Jackson Referenced The 'Women' She Can't Define
					

Repeatedly using a word she says she 'can't' define is not a good look for a potential Supreme Court justice.




					thefederalist.com


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 11, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> You are so full of shit.  Are you saying that a woman is incompetent to protect a child?  Progressive women i would agree that they are incompetent.



I am a conservative Christian public school teacher and a gun owner. I am not going to carry a gun into a public school classroom--MY classroom--for THIS public. Nope. No how, no way. I will jump in front of a bullet for my students and do whatever else is necessary. But that? no.

Too much to ask for far, far too little support, trust, and compensation. Nope.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 11, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> But---they shouldn't have to. Their job description does not include police work.



Police work, combat training, toilet training kindergarteners. Social workers, psychologists, I mean you name it these days.

We cannot save this crumbling society and quite frankly we are dead tired of being asked to do so AND THEN BLAMED when any little thing goes wrong. And now we are being  asked to take charge of things going wrong...with bullets.

Sure, right. Yeah.


----------



## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 11, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> I am a conservative Christian public school teacher and a gun owner. I am not going to carry a gun into a public school classroom--MY classroom--for THIS public. Nope. No how, no way. I will jump in front of a bullet for my students and do whatever else is necessary. But that? no.
> 
> Too much to ask for far, far too little support, trust, and compensation. Nope.


Too many innocent people are dying because they arent stepping up and being the adults in the room.  I swore and oath to defend this country and constitution, i would willingly pull the trigger on a deranged 18 or 19 year old if it was going to protect children.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 11, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> Too many innocent people are dying because they arent stepping up and being the adults in the room.  I swore and oath to defend this country and constitution, i would willingly pull the trigger on a deranged 18 or 19 year old if it was going to protect children.



That's great, and I mean that. Some are called to be soldiers. Some are called to be teachers. They are very often not the same, nor should they be asked to fill the same role. 

If veterans want to come into the schools armed up, I would be 100% in favor as long as proper checks were done. I'm serious. 

But maybe everyone can calm down and think of your average kindergarten teacher. You think she went into the profession because her top thought was defending five year olds with guns?


----------



## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 11, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> That's great, and I mean that. Some are called to be soldiers. Some are called to be teachers. They are very often not the same, nor should they be asked to fill the same role.
> 
> If veterans want to come into the schools armed up, I would be 100% in favor as long as proper checks were done. I'm serious.
> 
> But maybe everyone can calm down and think of your average kindergarten teacher. You think she went into the profession because her top thought was defending five year olds with guns?


But, my daughter, isnt a soldier, but a teacher who took the time to learn the "Women's defense course", and "Concealed carry course", just so she wouldnt be defenseless incase a progressive lunatic goes on a shooting rampage.  Are you saying she doesnt have the capability to defend the children even though she is trained to?


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 11, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> But, my daughter, isnt a soldier, but a teacher who took the time to learn the "Women's defense course", and "Concealed carry course", just so she wouldnt be defenseless incase a progressive lunatic goes on a shooting rampage.  Are you saying she doesnt have the capability to defend the children even though she is trained to?
> 
> View attachment 656572



Here's what I know about teachers and schools--our situations are vastly different, not only regionally but even within the same school. If she feels comfortable handling guns in her teaching situation she should be able to do that. I do not, and I know my situation well. And I should not be forced to do so.


----------



## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 11, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> Here's what I know about teachers and schools--our situations are vastly different, not only regionally but even within the same school. If she feels comfortable handling guns in her teaching situation she should be able to do that. I do not, and I know my situation well. And I should not be forced to do so.


No one said "forced".  It should always be an option to be concealed, then that way innocent children arent butchered as we have seen when the police fail to act.


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 11, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> Police work, combat training, toilet training kindergarteners. Social workers, psychologists, I mean you name it these days.
> 
> We cannot save this crumbling society and quite frankly we are dead tired of being asked to do so AND THEN BLAMED when any little thing goes wrong. And now we are being  asked to take charge of things going wrong...with bullets.
> 
> Sure, right. Yeah.


I agree 100%. No teacher should have to carry a gun in the classroom.
I'm afraid many teachers may retire early, and other young people may not go into the field at all. Teaching has became a dangerous job.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 13, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> I am a conservative Christian public school teacher and a gun owner. I am not going to carry a gun into a public school classroom--MY classroom--for THIS public. Nope. No how, no way. I will jump in front of a bullet for my students and do whatever else is necessary. But that? no.
> Too much to ask for far, far too little support, trust, and compensation. Nope.


So wait...
You're paid enough to be willing to die to protect your kids, but you aren't paid enough to be willing to shoot someone else to protect your kids?
How does that make any sense?


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 13, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> So wait...
> You're paid enough to be willing to die to protect your kids, but you aren't paid enough to be willing to shoot someone else to protect your kids?
> How does that make any sense?



I am not paid enough for the hell on earth outcome that would be wild gunfire, or being judged for shooting too quick, not shooting quick enough, etc. Many things are worse than dying. That would be one.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 13, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> I am not paid enough for the hell on earth outcome that would be wild gunfire, or being judged for shooting too quick, not shooting quick enough, etc. Many things are worse than dying. That would be one.


Your ignornace, bigotry an irrational fear demonstrates that you have no business teaching children.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 13, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Your ignornace, bigotry an irrational fear demonstrates that you have no business teaching children.



So in other words, my refusal to carry in the classroom puts your gun rights at risk and you take that personally and lash out personally as a result.

Stuff this in your arsenal. I don't care.


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 13, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> So wait...
> You're paid enough to be willing to die to protect your kids, but you aren't paid enough to be willing to shoot someone else to protect your kids?
> How does that make any sense?


It makes sense because she is not supposed to shoot anybody. She doesn't get paid enough to be a teacher and a police officer. Wouldn't it just be easier to ban military style semi-automatic weapons? What's so hard about doing that? Wouldn't it also be easier to stop politicians from accepting donations (bribes) from the NRA? If politicians didn't accept bribes from the NRA, we could get REAL gun control laws put in place.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 13, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> So in other words, my refusal to carry in the classroom...


No one said you had to.
You, however, said you'd rather die protecting your kids, rather than carry one to protect your kids, because of any number of assumed circumstances.
That's a position borne of ignorance bigotry and irrational fear, and demonstrates you have no business teaching children.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 13, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> No one said you had to.
> You, however, said you'd rather die protecting your kids, rather than carry one to protect your kids, because of any number of assumed circumstances.
> That's a position borne of ignorance bigotry and irrational fear, and demonstrates you have no business teaching children.



You assumed my circumstance. You don't know the first thing about teaching or what modern classrooms are like. If you did, you might understand why 70+% of TEXAS teachers don't want to carry in their classrooms.

And btw, I'm an award-winning, "highly qualified", published veteran teacher. I just had a perfect evaluation. I will take what my bosses over the last 27 years, along with parents and students, have said over some guy worried about his guns.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 13, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> You assumed my circumstance.


No..  YOU assumed the situation, you would face if you were involved in a school shooting, and used that assumption to talk yourself our of carrying a gun.


SweetSue92 said:


> You don't know the first thing about teaching or what modern classrooms are like....


You assume my cirumstances
I was married to a 1st grade teacher; I am currently married to the chair of the math department in a midwestern university you have heard of.


SweetSue92 said:


> If you did, you might understand why 70+% of TEXAS teachers don't want to carry in their classrooms.


Ok - and what of the 30%+ who do?


SweetSue92 said:


> And btw, I'm an award-winning, "highly qualified", published veteran teacher...


...who demonstrates conditions of ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.
Does your school board know you;d rather die than have the means to stop someone trying to kill your kids?


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 13, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Your ignornace, bigotry an irrational fear demonstrates that you have no business teaching children.


Actually I think she just is asking for the same sort of liability protections that police officers get, just in case things go badly during a shootout.


-----------------------------------------------------------


SweetSue92 said:


> So in other words, my refusal to carry in the classroom puts your gun rights at risk and you take that personally and lash out personally as a result.


Actually no.  Our gun rights are not at risk.  We'll be keeping our guns no matter what.

If children are not protected from massacres, they will just keep dying.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 13, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> Wouldn't it just be easier to ban military style semi-automatic weapons?


There is no such thing.

Military weapons are full-auto (or at least burst fire).




Ms. Turquoise said:


> What's so hard about doing that?


It isn't possible to outlaw something that does not even exist.




Ms. Turquoise said:


> Wouldn't it also be easier to stop politicians from accepting donations (bribes) from the NRA?


No.  That would be unconstitutional.




Ms. Turquoise said:


> If politicians didn't accept bribes from the NRA, we could get REAL gun control laws put in place.


No you couldn't.  The NRA's power has nothing to do with money.


----------



## Ms. Turquoise (Jun 13, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> There is no such thing.
> 
> Military weapons are full-auto (or at least burst fire).
> 
> ...


"The NRA's power has nothing to do with money". Please. 
It has EVERYTHING to do with money.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 13, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> "The NRA's power has nothing to do with money". Please.
> It has EVERYTHING to do with money.


No it doesn't.  The NRA has power because we vote politicians out of office for the rest of their lives when they cross us.

Politicians dislike being voted out of office for the rest of their lives.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 14, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> No..  YOU assumed the situation, you would face if you were involved in a school shooting, and used that assumption to talk yourself our of carrying a gun.
> 
> You assume my cirumstances
> I was married to a 1st grade teacher; I am currently married to the chair of the math department in a midwestern university you have heard of.
> ...



I don't want to carry a gun in my classroom. If another teacher does that's their business, although it surely does not look like it's going to be allowed in my state/district. 

I don't care what you think of that. I don't need your uninformed opinion on it. Period, the end.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 14, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Actually I think she just is asking for the same sort of liability protections that police officers get, just in case things go badly during a shootout.
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> ...



It is not my business to "protect" them by carrying a gun. I am a TEACHer. Not a police officer; not a security guard. If you want your child protected by a gun at all times, it's called homeschooling.


----------



## Unkotare (Jun 14, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> I am not paid enough for the hell on earth outcome that would be wild gunfire, .....



A real teacher does not need to be paid one red cent to do anything he can to protect students in his care.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 14, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> I don't want to carry a gun in my classroom.


No one said you have to.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Jun 27, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> "The NRA's power has nothing to do with money". Please.
> It has EVERYTHING to do with money.


No. Just Bloomberg outspends the NRA-ILA, last I saw by about 3:1.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 28, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> "The NRA's power has nothing to do with money". Please.
> It has EVERYTHING to do with money.




Again....

Don't blame the NRA for failed gun control efforts

You know how the argument goes. The "conventional wisdom" is the NRA's heavy spending stops hundreds of politicians from enacting the "common sense" gun control laws they and everyone else would otherwise support.
---------

There's only one problem with that theory. It's all wrong.

Of course, the NRA does spend money and it does have a sophisticated and persistent messaging operation. But so do dozens of other organizations and causes. So, how does the NRA stack up against them?
*Not too well. The NRA, gun makers, and gun rights issues do not even show up on the OpenSecrets website lists for top lobbying firms, top lobbying sectors, top lobbying issues, or top lobbying industries for the years 1998-2017.*

*The figures for Florida Senator Marco Rubio are particularly educational, since he has been a target of a lot of anti-NRA screeds since the shooting in his home state. A look at the top 20 donors to Rubio directly and his PAC since 2009 does not include the NRA. Over his career since 2009, Rubio has raised a total of more than $91 million in donations. The NRA is responsible for just over $3 million of that, or 3.3 percent. Big whoop, as they say. Yes, $3 million is a lot of money and more than most of us could ever donate to anything. But context is everything, and the even a so-called "poster boy" for NRA donations would only be 3.3 percent lighter in campaign cash without them.*

*Again, that certainly doesn't mean the NRA isn't spending a lot of money. But the Poltifact fact-checking website puts the total amount of NRA spending since 1998 at $203 million. That figure is even smaller than it looks when you consider 30 percent of Americans, or about 100 million people, own a gun. By contrast, Wall Street and the broader financial industrial shelled out more than $1.1 billion in the 2016 election cycle alone. The financial industry employs only about six million people in total.*

The bulk of that $203 million doesn't actually go to candidates as the hysterical tweets and finger pointers seem to believe. It's spent on those "issue ads" that you see mostly on cable news channels during election years. But even if those ads are extremely influential, they are a much different animal than direct campaign donations to individual congressional and presidential candidates.

There's even a question of whether the NRA is very persuasive among actual gun owners. Fewer than 20 percent of American gun owners are even NRA members. That should tell us something about the "chicken or the egg" argument about the gun lobby. The NRA is much more likely piggybacking off the beliefs of gun owners as opposed to framing them in the first place. The real power is with those voting gun owners, not the lobby group that purports to represent them.

Some gun control advocates are wise to this fact. New America senior fellow Lee Drutman has been working to debunk the myth of the all-powerful NRA's money for several years. Beginning in 2012, he noted the NRA hadn't even made donations to a majority of members of Congress. He also made the correct designation between allegiance and influence. That is, the NRA supports candidates that already align with its philosophy as opposed to paying them to toe the line.

Former New York City mayor and media billionaire Mike Bloomberg has thus made a futile point over the years to combat the NRA's money machine. Bloomberg founded "Everytown for Gun Safety" in 2014based on matching the NRA's financial clout. It hasn't been a total political failure. But in the wake of so many mass shootings since 2014, it's also fair to say Everytown hasn't been able to shepherd any new significant national gun laws to passage either.

A much better strategy is to talk less about the NRA and focus more on resurrecting the anti-gun violence measures Americans have supported in the past. That includes beefed up policing and improved background check systems.

A misbegotten path is introducing new rules and misrepresenting them to the public. That's what happened last year when Democrats tried a proposed rule that they and most of the news media portrayed as a way to keep guns from the "mentally ill." But it really sought to put people into the federal government gun background database if they received disability payments from Social Security and received assistance to manage their benefits due to mental impairments. That's a far cry from "mentally ill." Even the ACLU and mental health advocates lined up against that idea, not just the NRA.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 28, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> My daughter while going to college, also went to the "women's weapon self defense course" and "conceal carry class".  She passed with flying colors got her permit to carry and is now a full fledge teacher.  More teachers with this capability would be the front line defense incase of a deranged Progressive moron (radicalized to hate America) wanted to come into the school with the intent to "murder" innocent children and teachers.  Have the school system pay for the security those schools so badly need.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You yanks have some crazy logic


----------



## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 28, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> You yanks have some crazy logic


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 28, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> View attachment 663328


Change Bad Guy with Any Guy. Bad Guy is just a fallacy because you're all willing to shoot one another.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 28, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> You yanks have some crazy logic


Can you point out any flaws in our logic?


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 28, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Can you point out any flaws in our logic?


Flaws, crikey, where to begin. What work do you as a job? If retired, change "do" to "did".


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 28, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Flaws, crikey, where to begin.


It is difficult to find flaws in our logic when there are no such flaws to be found.


----------



## miketx (Jun 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> that will be just great, now we can be the wild wild west. Now she can be tuff and carry a gun, just to be killed by a gun.


Don't worry, they'll catch the gun that did it.


----------



## miketx (Jun 28, 2022)

Pellinore said:


> The idea that classrooms would be safer by having firearms introduced into them is madness to me.
> 
> The answer to this part of the problem is SROs.  They didn't stop the guy at this one data point, but they do a lot of good.


But continuing school shootings is good, right?


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 28, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> It is difficult to find flaws in our logic when there are no such flaws to be found.


What job do you currently do, or if you're retired, what was your last job?


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 28, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> No, but some women are much better than a progressive pussified pajama boy.


Oh no, they're posting NRA masturbatory material !!!


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 28, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> So you want more dead children and teachers?


No, people are wanting the alternator fixed, they're sick of changing the battery.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 28, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> What job do you currently do, or if you're retired, what was your last job?


I never give out personal information to progressives.  They only want to use that information to attack me.

Some progressives hope that attacking me will distract from their inability to support their arguments.  Others hope to force me to to stop posting the truth altogether.

It doesn't even matter what the personal information is.  Whatever it is will be fashioned into some sort of an attack.

The last board I was on there was even a concerted attempt to use my reference to a gunfight that one of my ancestors was in to try to find out who I am.  Luckily I left a lot of the details vague enough they they were unable to succeed.  But I was suitably creeped out by the lengths that they went to in their attempts to find me.




Captain Caveman said:


> No, people are wanting the alternator fixed, they're sick of changing the battery.


It is strange to want to fix an alternator that is in perfect working order.  But they should stop changing the battery.  It is fine too.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 28, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I never give out personal information to progressives.  They only want to use that information to attack me.
> 
> Some progressives hope that attacking me will distract from their inability to support their arguments.  Others hope to force me to to stop posting the truth altogether.
> 
> ...


Make a job up. I work in construction.

The alternator is broken, but they keep wanting to fix the battery.


----------



## flan327 (Jun 28, 2022)

Calypso Jones said:


> Considering some of the fruitcakes teaching transgenderism and queerness to our kids today....might be better to arm the kindegartners.


Disgusting


----------



## flan327 (Jun 28, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Make a job up. I work in construction.
> 
> The alternator is broken, but they keep wanting to fix the battery.


Paranoid much?


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 28, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> The alternator is broken, but they keep wanting to fix the battery.


The alternator is NOT broken.




Captain Caveman said:


> No, checking logic around here, the logic around here is shit.


I still haven't seen anyone point out any flaws in our logic.


----------



## initforme (Jun 28, 2022)

Key point missed is you give a nice chunk of additional dollars if they will carry.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 29, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> The alternator is NOT broken.
> 
> 
> 
> I still haven't seen anyone point out any flaws in our logic.


Gun culture is broken, so fix everything that suffers from it is stoopid. States with the most restrictions and countries with gun laws suffer less incidents.

A blind man on a galloping horse can see the flaw. Obviously you can't.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 29, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Gun culture is broken,


No it isn't.




Captain Caveman said:


> so fix everything that suffers from it is stoopid.


Nothing suffers from it.




Captain Caveman said:


> States with the most restrictions and countries with gun laws suffer less incidents.


That is incorrect.  The number of criminal incidents remains the same.

Now, in places with fewer guns, more criminal incidents may not have any guns involved.  And in places with many guns, more criminal incidents may involve guns.

But the number of criminal incidents remains the same regardless of whether guns are involved.




Captain Caveman said:


> A blind man on a galloping horse can see the flaw. Obviously you can't.


There is no flaw.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 29, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> No it isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes it is, innocent people suffer, it is correct, there's a flaw.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 29, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Yes it is, innocent people suffer, it is correct, there's a flaw.


That is incorrect.  Gun culture is not broken.  Neither is there a flaw.  Innocent people are not harmed by gun culture in any way.

And no, the number of incidents remains exactly the same regardless of the number of restrictions on guns.

By the way, here is the same question I posed to Vagabond63:

While I can certainly see how frequent shooting exercises are beneficial, why do you think that forcing people to participate in a shooting club before they are allowed to have a gun somehow reduces homicide rates?

The only effect of more shooting practice that I can see is that it will make gun owners better shots.  That's not a bad thing, but I really don't see how it reduces homicide rates any.

We already know of course that gun availability doesn't have any impact on homicide rates.  But it doesn't look to me like UK gun laws have a basis for even pretending that they curtail homicides.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 29, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> That is incorrect.  Gun culture is not broken.  Neither is there a flaw.  Innocent people are not harmed by gun culture in any way.
> 
> And no, the number of incidents remains exactly the same regardless of the number of restrictions on guns.
> 
> ...


It is correct. America has a broken gun culture, For example, one of your good guys shot at a car that had three youths inside, they were lost. Nineteen *innocent* kids had their brains blown all over their classroom (one of the hundreds of mass shootings). You try say them from abortion to then blast them away at school. Taf.

A teacher is a teacher, not a bodyguard. A care worker in a care home is a carer, not a bodyguard. A vicar in a church is a vicar, not a body guard. A subway sandwich maker is a sandwich maker, not a body guard. If someone wanted to be a bodyguard, they would train and apply for a bodyguards job, not a teacher's, care worker, vicar or fast food seller. The gun culture is broken, idiots believe walking around with guns is fantastic, shoot at anything and anyone that moves then ask questions. The gun nuts believe everyone should be a bodyguard, that speaks volumes of the gun nut's IQ level.

You've had nearly 250 years of, "The answer is more guns", and you still suffer horrendous gun violence. Many other countries decided to go in the opposite direction with gun checks and control, and the gun violence dramatically keeps falling. And the capacity of your brain can only squeak, "Der, not broken, der, incorrect".

With you it's, "If it looks like a duck, it quacks like a duck, it's a gun". Solid bone from the neck up.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 29, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> It is correct.


No it isn't.




Captain Caveman said:


> America has a broken gun culture,


No we don't.

What really needs to happen is, you guys need to change and become like us.




Captain Caveman said:


> For example, one of your good guys shot at a car that had three youths inside, they were lost.


If it was a good guy, I presume it was a justifiable shooting.  What else were they doing besides driving around lost?




Captain Caveman said:


> Nineteen *innocent* kids had their brains blown all over their classroom (one of the hundreds of mass shootings).


So what?  They'd be just as dead if they were murdered with some other kind of weapon.




Captain Caveman said:


> You try say them from abortion to then blast them away at school. Taf.


I don't pay much attention to the abortion issue, although I am extremely unsympathetic to feminists.




Captain Caveman said:


> A teacher is a teacher, not a bodyguard. A care worker in a care home is a carer, not a bodyguard. A vicar in a church is a vicar, not a body guard. A subway sandwich maker is a sandwich maker, not a body guard. If someone wanted to be a bodyguard, they would train and apply for a bodyguards job, not a teacher's, care worker, vicar or fast food seller.


I guess those teachers were pretty stupid to get themselves killed confronting the shooter that was slaughtering their students.

It's a shame you weren't able to tell them that they were supposed to stay out of the killer's way and not interfere with the slaughter.




Captain Caveman said:


> The gun culture is broken,


No it isn't.  Like I said above, what really needs to happen is, you guys need to change and become like us.




Captain Caveman said:


> idiots believe walking around with guns is fantastic, shoot at anything and anyone that moves then ask questions.


Nonsense.




Captain Caveman said:


> The gun nuts believe everyone should be a bodyguard, that speaks volumes of the gun nut's IQ level.


Name-calling is a poor substitute for facts and logic.




Captain Caveman said:


> You've had nearly 250 years of, "The answer is more guns", and you still suffer horrendous gun violence.


So what?  It's not like being killed with guns makes the victims more dead.




Captain Caveman said:


> Many other countries decided to go in the opposite direction with gun checks and control, and the gun violence dramatically keeps falling.


So what?  It's not like being killed with other kinds of weapons makes the victims less dead.




Captain Caveman said:


> And the capacity of your brain can only squeak, "Der, not broken, der, incorrect".


I gave you more detailed answers.  But when you don't even address the detailed answer and merely repeat the same untrue claims, the important thing to do is deny that your claims are true.




Captain Caveman said:


> With you it's, "If it looks like a duck, it quacks like a duck, it's a gun". Solid bone from the neck up.


Again, name-calling is a poor substitute for facts and logic.


----------



## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 29, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Gun culture is broken, so fix everything that suffers from it is stoopid. States with the most restrictions and countries with gun laws suffer less incidents.
> 
> A blind man on a galloping horse can see the flaw. Obviously you can't.


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## Captain Caveman (Jun 29, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> View attachment 663717


Amnesty International contains quite a bit of info on broken gun cultures -









						We need to prioritise people over guns.
					

We have the right to be safe from gun violence.




					www.amnesty.org
				




Interesting it seems to mainly be across the Americas. Who would have thought 🤔


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## Captain Caveman (Jun 29, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> No it isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll sum up your stance on the gun topic -


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## M14 Shooter (Jun 29, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> I'll sum up your stance on the gun topic -
> 
> View attachment 663844


Never, in the history of the internet, has there been a post more ironic than that, above.


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## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 29, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Amnesty International contains quite a bit of info on broken gun cultures -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


At every school shooting it has been broken boys who grew up without a father.  I blame progressive policies that made it easy for women to live without the man in the house.  I blame you for being retarded and voting in the very people who made those policies..


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## Captain Caveman (Jun 29, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Never, in the history of the internet, has there been a post more ironic than that, above.


Defeatists all try to hijack and twist posts back. Come on degree guy, you can do better than that


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 29, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> At every school shooting it has been broken boys who grew up without a father.  I blame progressive policies that made it easy for women to live without the man in the house.  I blame you for being retarded and voting in the very people who made those policies..
> 
> View attachment 663903


I voted for Boris Johnson, so please pray tell, what policies did Boris implement in America?


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## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 29, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> I voted for Boris Johnson, so please pray tell, what policies did Boris implement in America?


You voted for Boris Johnson, then you have no right to talk about our rights.  We are doing just fine here.


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## Captain Caveman (Jun 29, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> You voted for Boris Johnson, then you have no right to talk about our rights.  We are doing just fine here.


If you feel thousands of gun deaths a year and umpteen mass shootings a week is just fine, then you should get the waterboard to check to see if there's any hallucinogenic substances in your water supply because from here, blasting adults and kids away with guns is the opposite of, "Just fine".

Lee Rugby was hit by a car by total surprise to incapacitate him. If he had a gun in a broken gun culture in public, the two assailants would have acquired his gun. What the problem is, you think Hollywood films work in the real world, sadly, they don't.


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## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 29, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> If you feel thousands of gun deaths a year and umpteen mass shootings a week is just fine, then you should get the waterboard to check to see if there's any hallucinogenic substances in your water supply because from here, blasting adults and kids away with guns is the opposite of, "Just fine".
> 
> Lee Rugby was hit by a car by total surprise to incapacitate him. If he had a gun in a broken gun culture in public, the two assailants would have acquired his gun. What the problem is, you think Hollywood films work in the real world, sadly, they don't.


Those gun deaths are mostly in the inner cities where Democrats have enacted the toughest gun laws.  Criminals dont follow guns laws, why do you want to disarm law abiding citizens, is it because you hate law abiding citizens?


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## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 29, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> If you feel thousands of gun deaths a year and umpteen mass shootings a week is just fine, then you should get the waterboard to check to see if there's any hallucinogenic substances in your water supply because from here, blasting adults and kids away with guns is the opposite of, "Just fine".
> 
> Lee Rugby was hit by a car by total surprise to incapacitate him. If he had a gun in a broken gun culture in public, the two assailants would have acquired his gun. What the problem is, you think Hollywood films work in the real world, sadly, they don't.


Interesting that you said it was a car that incapacitated him, while it was a Muslim with a butchers knife that decapitated him.  

Family of soldier Lee Rigby arrive for first day of murder trial


> *Suspects armed with 'meat cleaver, knives and a revolver', prosecution says*
> *There were gasps in court as jury was shown CCTV of attack on Lee Rigby*
> *Adebolajo 'thanked police for shooting them and said: "I did it for my God"'  *



 
I thought guns were illegal in Britstain?


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## Captain Caveman (Jun 29, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> Those gun deaths are mostly in the inner cities where Democrats have enacted the toughest gun laws.  Criminals dont follow guns laws, why do you want to disarm law abiding citizens, is it because you hate law abiding citizens?


Innocent kids and adults couldn't give a stuff where "most" happen.


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## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 29, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Innocent kids and adults couldn't give a stuff where "most" happen.


Interesting that down here where i am allowed to conceal carry, not one incident of violence has happened.


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## Captain Caveman (Jun 29, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> Interesting that you said it was a car that incapacitated him, while it was a Muslim with a butchers knife that decapitated him.
> 
> Family of soldier Lee Rigby arrive for first day of murder trial
> 
> ...


You need to buy a dictionary. Before Rigby knew what was going on, they ran him over with a car. If Rigby had a knife, gun, bazooka, nuclear war head etc.., none of those would have helped him. Caprice !!!

Guns are legal in Britainstain, just like in Americanunt.


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## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 29, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> You need to buy a dictionary. Before Rigby knew what was going on, they ran him over with a car. If Rigby had a knife, gun, bazooka, nuclear war head etc.., none of those would have helped him. Caprice !!!
> 
> Guns are legal in Britainstain, just like in Americanunt.


England Gun Laws - Gun Control, Rights, News - LAWS.com


> England gun laws completely prohibit fully-automatic firearms, and allow for certain kinds of firearms in the forms of rifles, pistols, or shotguns to be owned and others to be prohibited. Gun laws in England allow for the registration of United Kingdom firearms in two ways, either according to firearm or shotgun certificates, and also prohibit certain kinds of ammunition.


 So a radical Muslim can walk into a gun dealer and purchase a weapon?  You need to petition your leaders because it seems that your leaders what to see you dead, just like in the inner cities of America, the Democrats love to see blacks murdered by the 10s of thousands.


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## Captain Caveman (Jun 29, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> Interesting that down here where i am allowed to conceal carry, not one incident of violence has happened.


Correct, because carrying a gun for self defence is a fallacy. Look that thread up, you just confirmed it. 2aguy will be upset you deviated from the gun nut rhetoric.


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## Captain Caveman (Jun 29, 2022)

Thread dead by mods.


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## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 29, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Correct, because carrying a gun for self defence is a fallacy. Look that thread up, you just confirmed it. 2aguy will be upset you deviated from the gun nut rhetoric.


Wrong again, bucko, there is no fallacy when it comes to conceal carry.  So you would willingly have those 550 lives saved, murdered because criminals dont obey laws and get guns any way, like the beheader of Rigby.

"When it comes to concealed carry permits, we have 153 documented cases across 26 states with* at least 550* lives saved." The Violence Policy Center (VPC) recently claimed concealed weapons licensees are killers, offering stories as proof.
Research: *Concealed* *Carry* and Guns *Save* Lives - Buckeye Firearms​








www.buckeyefirearms.org/research-concealed-carry-and-guns-save-lives


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## Captain Caveman (Jun 29, 2022)

Mikeoxenormous said:


> Wrong again, bucko, there is no fallacy when it comes to conceal carry.  So you would willingly have those 550 lives saved, murdered because criminals dont obey laws and get guns any way, like the beheader of Rigby.
> 
> "When it comes to concealed carry permits, we have 153 documented cases across 26 states with* at least 550* lives saved." The Violence Policy Center (VPC) recently claimed concealed weapons licensees are killers, offering stories as proof.
> Research: *Concealed* *Carry* and Guns *Save* Lives - Buckeye Firearms​
> ...


Hunt the thread out, a gun for self defence is a proven fallacy. Sorry to have pissed on your parade.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 29, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Amnesty International contains quite a bit of info on broken gun cultures -


No they don't.  They merely point out the fact that where there are lots of guns, murders are usually carried out using guns.  And where there are few guns, murders are usually carried out without guns.

I pointed that out myself in #234.  Amnesty International is just repeating what I said.


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## Open Bolt (Jun 29, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> I'll sum up your stance on the gun topic -
> View attachment 663844


It is proper that untrue statements are denied.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 29, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Defeatists all try to hijack and twist posts back. Come on degree guy, you can do better than that


Actually he has a point.  Over and over again we have explained why your claims are untrue.  You never try to challenge those explanations but merely keep repeating your untrue statements.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 29, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> If you feel thousands of gun deaths a year and umpteen mass shootings a week is just fine, then you should get the waterboard to check to see if there's any hallucinogenic substances in your water supply because from here, blasting adults and kids away with guns is the opposite of, "Just fine".


But yet you can never explain how a murder using a gun is supposed to be any worse than a murder using any other kind of a weapon.


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## Open Bolt (Jun 29, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Correct, because carrying a gun for self defence is a fallacy.


That is incorrect.  People really do carry guns for self defense.


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## Flash (Jun 29, 2022)

They are here in Florida but they have to receive some training.


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## Captain Caveman (Jun 29, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> That is incorrect.  People really do carry guns for self defense.


Just can't be arsed to cover and reply to 5 of yours posts posted in as many seconds.


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## Open Bolt (Jun 29, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Just can't be arsed to cover and reply to 5 of yours posts posted in as many seconds.


Whatever excuse you use to avoid addressing the fact that you are wrong, you are still wrong.

And the system actually made me wait 30 seconds between each post.  So I posted over the course of a two minute span.

I would normally have combined them into a single post, but in a previous post you said that you would not respond to a post that addressed multiple points.

That also was just an excuse to avoid addressing the fact that you are wrong.

I guess next time though I'll combine them into a single post.  It's more efficient that way.  And clearly you will avoid confronting the fact that you are wrong no matter how I format my posts.


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## ding (Jun 30, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Correct, because carrying a gun for self defence is a fallacy.


How so?


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## ding (Jun 30, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Caprice


????


----------



## ding (Jun 30, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Guns are legal in Britainstain, just like in Americanunt.


Just like?  Exactly like?


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## Captain Caveman (Jun 30, 2022)

ding said:


> How so?


All the information is covered in the "Self defence fallacy" thread.


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## Captain Caveman (Jun 30, 2022)

ding said:


> ????


Should have been "capisce", predictive text changed it to Caprice.


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## Captain Caveman (Jun 30, 2022)

ding said:


> Just like?  Exactly like?


Are guns legal in America? Are guns legal in UK? The answer to both is exactly the same, yes.


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## hadit (Jun 30, 2022)

citygator said:


> Police officers hid outside for 40 minutes but an untrained female 24 year old 3rd grade teacher who was just reading “Goodnight Moon” to the  class before nap time is gonna gun down a heavily armed and armored up bad guy? Fuck off morons.


Apparently, you don't know women very well, because when they are protecting children, they can be extremely tough. And who says she's not going to be trained?

In this case, she would be the last line of defense for the little ones crouched behind her, and it seems that you would prefer to leave her with nothing more of a defense than an eraser to throw at the shooter. Let's just put it this way, which room would a shooter be more likely to enter, one with an armed teacher or one with nothing more threatening than the terrified sobbing of children?

What the police did for 40 minutes while kids were dying is inexcusable, and if they're going to treat every shooting like this, someone has to take drastic measures to stop the carnage, someone inside who's already in the situation. That would be teachers.


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## ding (Jun 30, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> All the information is covered in the "Self defence fallacy" thread.


I'm not going to go search for what I think you think the answer might be when you can just answer what you think it is.  I'd just be guessing.


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## ding (Jun 30, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Are guns legal in America? Are guns legal in UK? The answer to both is exactly the same, yes.


Can you own a semi-automatic pistol in the UK?


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## ding (Jun 30, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> There are no answers that you can provide for me. You need to go and gain further knowledge.


Here's a recap...



Captain Caveman said:


> Correct, because carrying a gun for self defence is a fallacy.





ding said:


> How so?





Captain Caveman said:


> All the information is covered in the "Self defence fallacy" thread.





ding said:


> I'm not going to go search for what I think you think the answer might be when you can just answer what you think it is. I'd just be guessing.





Captain Caveman said:


> The thread contains the answer, it's more than trying to repeat a few lines. So if you're unwilling to find it (probably take 30 seconds), then carry on guessing all your life. It'll probably just make your future posts on that particular subject irrelevant.
> 
> I'm nobodies lackey, so they need to do their own research. Sounds like you're not interested in learning anything new and just stuck in your own opinions.





ding said:


> Yes, like I said, I'm unwilling to provide your answer for you.


----------



## ding (Jun 30, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> There are no answers that you can provide for me. You need to go and gain further knowledge.


Did you ever figure out if you can own a semi-automatic pistol in the UK?  You know... like I can in the US.


----------



## ding (Jun 30, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> carrying a gun for self defence is a fallacy.





ding said:


> How so?





Captain Caveman said:


> You need to go and gain further knowledge.


----------



## ding (Jun 30, 2022)

Apparently having to explain why one believes carrying a gun for self defense is a fallacy is too much to ask.


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## Captain Caveman (Jun 30, 2022)

ding said:


> Did you ever figure out if you can own a semi-automatic pistol in the UK?  You know... like I can in the US.


The question is, you didn't evening figure out the conversation. Guns are legal in the UK and US. Cars are legal in the UK and US. Sports are legal in the UK and US. Now you're drilling down to actual guns, cars, and sports to try and push as stupid position. So I ignored the retard-ness of your post. One type of gun not legal in one country, one type of car not legal in one country, and one type of sport not legal in one country, does not make guns, cars, and sports illegal in one of those countries


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## ding (Jun 30, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> The question is, you didn't evening figure out the conversation. Guns are legal in the UK and US. Cars are legal in the UK and US. Sports are legal in the UK and US. Now you're drilling down to actual guns, cars, and sports to try and push as stupid position. So I ignored the retard-ness of your post. One type of gun not legal in one country, one type of car not legal in one country, and one type of sport not legal in one country, does not make guns, cars, and sports illegal in one of those countries


I know it's important to you to believe you have the same freedom in the UK as the US, but you don't.  It's probably why you rationalize that not being able to carry a firearm for personal defense doesn't improve personal defense.  But the real reason you rationalize that is because you can't and we can.  So... not the same.  Not even close to being the same.


----------



## ding (Jun 30, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> It's in the Self Defence Fallacy thread.


But you made the statement here in this thread and apparently you can't back it up.  

The real reason you believe that is because you can't carry and we can.


----------



## ding (Jun 30, 2022)

This is really pretty simple... if carrying a firearm did not improve personal defense then politicians in the UK wouldn't have bodyguards who carry firearms.


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## ding (Jun 30, 2022)

Apparently... in the UK there are two classes of citizens.  Citizens who are important enough to be protected by firearms and everyone else who isn't important enough to be protected by firearms.

But the truly amazing thing is how the people who aren't important enough to be protected by firearms support their master's decisions without question.


----------



## ding (Jun 30, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> If you read the Freedoms and Liberty thread, you wouldn't have a posted a meaningless post.


I guess we will never know.  I can carry a firearm legally in the US without have to justify it to anyone. Can you carry a firearm legally in the UK without have to justify it to anyone.  

Baa once for yes.  baa twice for no?


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 30, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> The term is "bleat".
> And as that's all he ever does, you'll not know if he answers.


Hey up, it's degree guy that obeys the NRA gun nut 10 commandments pamphlet, lol


----------



## ding (Jun 30, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Hey up, it's degree guy that obeys the NRA gun nut 10 commandments pamphlet, lol


You don't have to be jealous of our gun rights, bro.


----------



## Stann (Jun 30, 2022)

Ms. Turquoise said:


> Teachers should not have to carry guns in the classroom. Don't they have enough responsibility already?
> This is a bad idea.


Agreed, more guns isn't the answer.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 30, 2022)

Stann said:


> Agreed, more guns isn't the answer.


Then why do we have police officers carry guns when they show up to mass shootings?


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 30, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Try around 1870


Shall issue licensing doesn't disarm law-abiding citizens.

It was only in 1920 that the British government assumed the power to deny someone the ability to have a gun merely because the government felt that they didn't need a gun.




Captain Caveman said:


> UK - 1870-1689 = 181 years


Let's try:

*UK - 1920-605 = 1315 years*

_"Ceorl, also spelled Churl, the *free peasant* who formed the basis of society in Anglo-Saxon England.  *His free status was marked by his right to bear arms*, his attendance at local courts, and his payment of dues directly to the king.  His wergild, the sum that his family could accept in place of vengeance if he were killed, was valued at 200 shillings."_








						ceorl | English peasant
					

ceorl, also spelled Churl,  the free peasant who formed the basis of society in Anglo-Saxon England. His free status was marked by his right to bear arms, his attendance at local courts, and his payment of dues directly to the king. His wergild, the sum that his family could accept in place of...



					www.britannica.com
				




_"Fyrd, tribal militia-like arrangement existing in Anglo-Saxon England from approximately AD 605.  Local in character, it imposed military service upon every able-bodied *free* male.  It was probably the duty of the ealderman, or sheriff, to call out and lead the fyrd.  Fines imposed for neglecting the fyrd varied with the status of the individual, landholders receiving the heaviest fines and common labourers the lightest."_








						fyrd | Anglo-Saxon militia
					

fyrd,  tribal militia-like arrangement existing in Anglo-Saxon England from approximately ad 605. Local in character, it imposed military service upon every able-bodied free male. It was probably the duty of the ealderman, or sheriff, to call out and lead the fyrd. Fines imposed for neglecting...



					www.britannica.com


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 30, 2022)

Stann said:


> Agreed, more guns isn't the answer.




Apparently, it was the answer since the killer wasn't stopped until an armed Border agent shot him to death...while 19 other guys with guns did nothing...

Meanwhile, that same week?

Uvalde....Attacker armed with AR-15 Rifle...........19 men with body armor ballistic shields and rifles.....did not engage the shooter.....19 kids 2 teachers killed.

West Virginia...armed mass public shooter with AR-15 rifle.......civilian woman with no body armor, her concealed carry pistol....shot and killed the attacker....no one killed...



West Virginia mass shooting stopped...

People like this West Virginia woman who stopped what could have become a mass shooting just a day after Uvalde.

*Police said a woman who was lawfully carrying a pistol shot and killed a man who began shooting at a crowd of people Wednesday night in Charleston.
Dennis Butler was killed after allegedly shooting at dozens of people attending a graduation party Wednesday near the Vista View Apartment complex. No injuries were reported from those at the party.
Investigators said Butler was warned about speeding in the area with children present before he left. He later returned with an AR-15-style firearm and began firing into the crowd before he was shot and killed.
“Instead of running from the threat, she engaged with the threat and saved several lives last night,” Charleston Police Department Chief of Detectives Tony Hazelett said.
Officers did not go into detail, but said Butler did have an extensive criminal history.*

West Virginia armed citizen stops potential mass shooting
=======


Some teachers, with training, act as a deterrent to the mass public shooters....and as a last line of defense when the government completely fails...

So your proposition that more guns are not the answer is just dumb....


----------



## flan327 (Jun 30, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Never, in the history of the internet, has there been a post more ironic than that, above.


Until YOU posted


----------

