# Electric vehicles killing the planet



## Manonthestreet (Apr 28, 2019)

Considering Germany’s current energy mix and the amount of energy used in battery production, the CO2 emissions of battery-electric vehicles are, in the best case, slightly higher than those of a diesel engine, and are otherwise much higher. This has been confirmed by a new study by Christoph Buchal, professor of physics at the University of Cologne; Hans-Dieter Karl, long-standing ifo energy expert; and Hans-Werner Sinn, former ifo president and professor emeritus at Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München. CESifo Group Munich - ifo Schnelldienst: Electric Vehicles are not a Panacea for Climate Change
Oh my,,,,just another scam we got to pay for. What will save us now?


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## william the wie (Apr 28, 2019)

Why am I not surprised by this outcome?


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## gfm7175 (Apr 29, 2019)

Yup... And what many of these environmentalist types overlook is that electric vehicles might as well just be called coal vehicles (or "fossil fuel" vehicles), since the primary power sources for electricity are coal and other "fossil fuels" as they are stupidly called.


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## the other mike (Apr 29, 2019)

william the wie said:


> Why am I not surprised by this outcome?


Because it ain't true.


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## Slyhunter (Apr 29, 2019)

Angelo said:


> william the wie said:
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Where do they dispose the batteries that have to be replaced every 1-3 years?


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## Manonthestreet (Apr 29, 2019)

Angelo said:


> william the wie said:
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Dont be a denier......science is settled until they up their game. I would suggest mandatory elec fleet regs as all others are under. Gas is King,,,


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## the other mike (Apr 29, 2019)

Slyhunter said:


> Angelo said:
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If that's true it's a good question.
I like the future of biofuels myself...
Biodiesel Magazine - The Latest News and Data About Biodiesel Production


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben (May 1, 2019)

No one ever considers the insane amounts of waste that is going to be created from allllllllll of those batteries and heavy metals in landfills.For example, look at fluorescent versus traditional light bulbs. Nothing is truly free.


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## the other mike (May 1, 2019)

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


> No one ever considers the insane amounts of waste that is going to be created from allllllllll of those batteries and heavy metals in landfills.For example, look at fluorescent versus traditional light bulbs. Nothing is truly free.


Yep. And as soon as someone invents a battery that can last forever or is recyclable , Exxon or one of the others will buy the patent and bury it.


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## Weatherman2020 (May 1, 2019)




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## Tijn Von Ingersleben (May 1, 2019)

Angelo said:


> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
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> > No one ever considers the insane amounts of waste that is going to be created from allllllllll of those batteries and heavy metals in landfills.For example, look at fluorescent versus traditional light bulbs. Nothing is truly free.
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Or they will buy the patent and profit from it. Works both ways.


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## gallantwarrior (May 1, 2019)

Funny you should mention this.  My partner bought a hybrid last week to replace the gas Lexus.  He's not an enviro-nut but was more interested in saving money on gas.  An 80 mile (one way) commute to work was costing around $400/month.  The recent significant increase in fuel prices would drive that up quite a bit.  Hybrids are less expensive to run and he plans on trading it off before he reaches battery replacement.  Of course, we still have both a gas Dodge and a diesel Dodge PU for the heavy lifting.  Both my partner and I are very aware that electric/hybrid cars still use massive natural resources.  At least we do not delude ourselves about how great we are for "saving" the world.  Oh, yeah, what the partner saves on gas now goes to the insurance company. 
I would not have bought the thing.  We'll see how it works out.


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## the other mike (May 1, 2019)

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


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With the profits big oil has made in the last 100 years they could have a city on the moon by now.


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben (May 1, 2019)

Angelo said:


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So you find fault with the oil industries promotion of oil?


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## the other mike (May 1, 2019)

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


> So you find fault with the oil industries promotion of oil?


Promoting oil and lying to the public that there are no risks to the climate and the environment,  bribing politicians to soften the EPA, and killing regulations that protect the air and water and so on ?

Yes. A big fucking problem.


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## gallantwarrior (May 1, 2019)

Batteries are totally safe.  Really?  That's why it's imperative that I vent my solar batteries outside?
Outgassing is toxic and highly hazardous.
What hazardous gases are associated with lead acid battery charging stations? | GfG Instrumentation | GfG Instrumentation


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben (May 1, 2019)

Angelo said:


> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
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> > So you find fault with the oil industries promotion of oil?
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So...name me a major industry in the US which does not display some level of sociopathy? Chemicals, social media, financials, tech, manufacturing...every industry has been found guilty and fined as a result of lying...fraud...environmental concerns (save social media).
Every industry buys favor to some level. The entire system is rife with corruption. You cannot single out the oil industry for these failings. 
The FACT remains that 'environmentally friendly' options are far from green or environmentally friendly in many ways when all factors are considered.


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## Slyhunter (May 1, 2019)

gallantwarrior said:


> Batteries are totally safe.  Really?  That's why it's imperative that I vent my solar batteries outside?
> Outgassing is toxic and highly hazardous.
> What hazardous gases are associated with lead acid battery charging stations? | GfG Instrumentation | GfG Instrumentation


Are they more hazardous than gas. I wouldn't breath in gas fumes either.

However, there is the problem of how often you have to change them out and dispose of them. Last I heard it took 1-3 years replacement at a cost of up to $8,000. Too expensive for me. However, I did a search and read where they had an 8 year 100,000 mile warranty on them in one particular car. I do 100,000 miles a year so it wouldn't work for me but it's better than the normal 1-3 year replacement cycle.


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## the other mike (May 1, 2019)

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


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 Oh Godz here we go again ....
troll alert.

Ask the (ex) fishermen on the Gulf coast the same question Elmer.
You know that most of the shellfish is imported to New Orleans now ?
The Gulf of Mexico is virtually dead- bet you don't hear that on Fox or ABC.


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## gallantwarrior (May 1, 2019)

Slyhunter said:


> gallantwarrior said:
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> > Batteries are totally safe.  Really?  That's why it's imperative that I vent my solar batteries outside?
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Partner has a 5 yr/120,000 mile warranty.  I think they are getting better.  But batteries pose their own hazard to the environment and that seems to be ignored because it isn't "oil".
Outgassing is common with the chemical conversion that occurs in batteries.  We don't notice it because it mostly happens in our cars, outside the passenger compartment.  But powering a house with solar/battery power means you have to become aware of the outgassing.  It can be as fatal as running your car in the garage connected to the house, kind of like hooking up a hose to the car exhaust...


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## the other mike (May 1, 2019)

gallantwarrior said:


> But batteries pose their own hazard to the environment and that seems to be ignored because it isn't "oil".
> .


They have a LOT of catching up to do don't they ?


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben (May 1, 2019)

Angelo said:


> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
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Absurd claim. Both from personal experience and statistical fact. 
Ref. Table 5 & 6
Oyster harvests are at or near pre-Gulf Horizon incident 2010.
http://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/sites/...-task-force-members/oysterfmpnovember2016.pdf

If there were no market for those harvested, they wouldn't be.  The numbers speak for themselves.


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## the other mike (May 1, 2019)

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


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Some of the _true_ numbers are not even discussed which are for instance ; *how many individuals* along the Gulf Coast after the BP oil spill were paid large settlements and forced to sign NDA's ?

Nine years later, the BP oil spill's environmental mess isn't gone

Mutated Fish Still Haunt Louisiana’s Fishermen After the BP Oil Spill

Crushing oyster harvest in Gulf devastating fishermen as science tries to determine if oil or water is to blame - Bellona.org

Gulf fisheries in decline after oil disaster


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben (May 1, 2019)

Angelo said:


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Don't move the goalpost...you stated that most shellfish was imported...not the case. I showed you statistical harvest numbers...e.g. facts.
You're wrong.


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## the other mike (May 1, 2019)

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


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Imported meaning not locally harvested. Stop lying with your pdf article that took an hour to dig up.


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben (May 1, 2019)

An hour? Math not your strong suit? Locally harvested? So a statistical document published by the state of Louisiana is not local enough?  Geography much?

Hint: New Orleans is in Louisiana. 

Who is the troll?


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## the other mike (May 1, 2019)

Of course they're mainly blaming agriculture. 
*Gulf of Mexico ‘dead zone’ is the largest ever measured | National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration*


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## the other mike (May 1, 2019)

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


> Don't move the goalpost..


I always love that response after I've thoroughly spanked someone.


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben (May 1, 2019)

Angelo said:


> Of course they're mainly blaming agriculture.
> *Gulf of Mexico ‘dead zone’ is the largest ever measured | National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration*


Yes...ignore harvest data to go with New York based CBS News...local? 
Still moving that goalpost.


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## the other mike (May 1, 2019)

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


> Angelo said:
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I've been there and know people.
btw, they're poisoning folks with those oysters and shrimp - FDA ain't worth a shit.
It's their business model by also investing in the healthcare racket....the sicker we are the better.


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