# Not only the pill, but sex changes?



## Meister (Sep 6, 2012)

Apparently, Sandra Fluke not only wants Obamacare to pay for the "pill" but also to have sex changes covered by insurance....really?


*Sandra Fluke supports mandatory coverage of sex change surgery*

*irth control is not all that Ms. Fluke believes private health insurance must cover. She also, apparently, believes that it is discrimination deserving of legal action if gender reassignment surgeries are not covered by employer provided health insurance. She makes these views clear in an article she co-edited with Karen Hu in the Georgetown Journal of Gender and the Law.
The title of the article . . . is Employment Discrimination Against LGBTQ Persons and was published in the Journals 2011 Annual Review.
Transgender persons wishing to undergo the gender reassignment process frequently face heterosexist employer health insurance policies that label the surgery as cosmetic or medically unnecessary and therefore uncovered.
Sandra Fluke supports mandatory coverage of sex change surgery « Wintery Knight

So Sandra (pre), Steve (post) wants a sex change too? 
I thought she was just a misguided college student....who knew she was an over the top nutcase activist that was hired by the DNC to speak. *


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## jillian (Sep 6, 2012)

Meister said:


> Apparently, Sandra Fluke not only wants Obamacare to pay for the "pill" but also to have sex changes covered by insurance....really?
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> *Sandra Fluke supports mandatory coverage of sex change surgery*
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*

well, gender dysphoria is a real illness. should they not get treatment for that illness? 

do we not treat AIDS and STD's because some disapprove of how one might get those illnesses?

http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevision/Pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=192

http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevision/Pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=482*


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## jillian (Sep 6, 2012)

jillian said:


> Meister said:
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*

i hadn't heard that Ms Fluke was transgendered. Nor does she seem the least bit misguided.*


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## eflatminor (Sep 6, 2012)

jillian said:


> well, gender dysphoria is a real illness. should they not get treatment for that illness?



Oh...my...God...

You're serious.  

You're serious about "dysphoria" being a "real" illness, which is pathetic enough but that you expect taxpayers to foot the bill?  Unbelievable!  What next, taxpayer boob jobs because women with little tits have an "illness"?

Wow, just wow.


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## Katzndogz (Sep 6, 2012)

People who have gender dysphoria deserve treatment.  Not accommodation for their illness.  We don't give people with STDs or AIDS uninfected sex partners.

I'm glad Fluke was there, and glad she made her demands.  She no doubt added a great deal to the general opinion of democrats.


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## Meister (Sep 6, 2012)

jillian said:


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Seriously, Jillian? 
Is there anything that liberals AREN'T willing to pay for?
Bringing in AIDS or STD's is not a very good arguement on this subject.  just sayin....

I know Sandra isn't a misguided college student, but what she IS, is a full blown activist for socializing medicine....you seem to be, also.*


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## Rozman (Sep 6, 2012)

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Do we also have to pay for Sandra's sex toys and bondage outfits...
I mean if we wanna keep her healthy we also need to keep her happy as well.
Is that covered under Obamacare?*


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## daveman (Sep 6, 2012)

Meister said:


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*
Correction:

"Is there anything that liberals AREN'T willing to demand someone else pay for?"*


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## thanatos144 (Sep 6, 2012)

Now the slut wants more women made??????????Is she thinking of playing both sides and needs desperate women?


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## jillian (Sep 6, 2012)

eflatminor said:


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i can't help it if you're ignorant. i'm pretty sure that you've never known anyone transgendered and i'm pretty sure you don't know anything about them.

so, just wow... 

at your ignorance. *shrug*


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## jillian (Sep 6, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Now the slut wants more women made??????????Is she thinking of playing both sides and needs desperate women?



yes... because if you disagree with a woman, she must be a slut.

it must be very difficult for you having such a tiny penis and having so much resentment toward women.


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## jillian (Sep 6, 2012)

Rozman said:


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is an insurance company 'we'? 

i don't think so.

and do you whine and cry because insurance companies pay for rushbo's little blue pills?


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## Papageorgio (Sep 6, 2012)

jillian said:


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*

It's an illness in the mind.*


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## Warrior102 (Sep 6, 2012)

How come we didn't have these debates when a real American - like John F. Kennedy was around. He's turning in his grave looking at todays Democrats. He'd never buy into any of this bullshit.


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## martybegan (Sep 6, 2012)

jillian said:


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Its still an elective procedure. If an insurance company wants to cover surgery related to mental conditions, then fine. They should not, however be forced to by government fiat.


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## Meister (Sep 6, 2012)

jillian said:


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Insurance companies didn't pay for rushbo's little blue pills, Jillian.


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## jillian (Sep 6, 2012)

Meister said:


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of course they did...and if they didn't pay for rushbo's, i can't imagine why since viagra is covered by most policies.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Sep 6, 2012)

Meister said:


> Apparently, Sandra Fluke not only wants Obamacare to pay for the "pill" but also to have sex changes covered by insurance....really?
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> *Sandra Fluke supports mandatory coverage of sex change surgery*
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*
Yes, she's a sex changing prostitute who eats babies and worships Joseph Stalin. Did I mention she hates puppies, too?*


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## jillian (Sep 6, 2012)

daveman said:


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that's interesting given that i pay a much higher percentage of my income in taxes than your beloved romney does.


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## eflatminor (Sep 6, 2012)

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And there you have it folks.  Not only does the Left consider someone wanting to change their sex to be a legitimate "illness", they expect the rest of us to be force to pay for the operation.  

Next up, boob jobs, penis enlargement, hair transplants and facelifts...all covered by other people's money.  It's an "illness" don't cha know!  

FUBAR!


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## eflatminor (Sep 6, 2012)

jillian said:


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Non sequitur.


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## stars (Sep 6, 2012)

she's an extremist whore who deserves to be placed in jail


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## Meister (Sep 6, 2012)

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No, Viagra isn't covered by most policies, Jillian


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## jillian (Sep 6, 2012)

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they do. the companies that cover birth control cover viagra.

only no one has to ask an employer for permission to have it covered.



> We couldn&#8217;t find any data that show a disparity between health insurance companies that cover Viagra and those that cover birth control. The full range of contraceptives, in fact, are covered by more than 86 percent of private insurance plans written for employers.



http://www.factcheck.org/2008/07/mccains-viagra-moment/


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## jillian (Sep 6, 2012)

eflatminor said:


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the things you mention are cosmetic and are generally paid for by the people purchasing them.

it's very funny having stupid people call me names, though.


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## tjvh (Sep 6, 2012)

eflatminor said:


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Sorry... Buffalo, NY Teachers *already get Taxpayer funded Boob jobs.* Teachers receive free plastic surgery in Buffalo, NY - CBS Atlanta 46
Teachers in Buffalo have the best racks in the US (because they get free boob-jobs on the tax payer)


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## eflatminor (Sep 6, 2012)

Meister said:


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Correct, and more importantly, government isn't (or at least shouldn't) be MANDATING what's provided in a health insurance policy.  Let the market meet demand for various forms and amounts of coverage without the damn government meddling.  A big part of the reason health insurance costs have skyrocketed is government mandating that everything under the sun be covered.  And this idiot wants sex change operations covered!  Can you believe this crap?!


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## jillian (Sep 6, 2012)

eflatminor said:


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once again, you know nothing. see link above to factcheck.org.

now run along


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## eflatminor (Sep 6, 2012)

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How stupid are you to say I called you a "name" when I did not?  Pretty fucking stupid I'd say.

But to the point:  A sex change operation is NOT cosmetic?  Why?  Because you and the other nanny state meddlers say it's an illness?  Horse hockey.  There is NOTHING that will harm the health of a person that wishes they were the other sex anymore than a person that wishes they had a full head of hair.  Both operations are cosmetic.


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## Meister (Sep 6, 2012)

A good read:

In the year before surgery, counseling can cost $50 to $200 per session, and letters from two therapists usually are needed for surgery; the total cost of the therapy and the letters can range from under $1,000 to more than $5,000 for that year. And hormone therapy could cost $300 to $2,400 for the year, depending on which hormones are prescribed. TSRoadmap.com offers a detailed financial worksheets and estimates on the all the costs of transition, and estimates that it is typical to spend a total of $40,000 to $50,000 for a mid-range transition, including surgery.
For patients not covered by health insurance, the typical cost of a sex reassignment surgery can range from about $15,000 for just reconstruction of the genitals to about $25,000 for operations on the genitals and chest to $50,000 or more for procedures that include operations to make facial features more masculine or feminine. Prices typically depend on the techniques used -- different techniques often are recommended based on body type and patient preference.
Price examples include The Philadelphia Center for Transgender Surgery, where basic male-to-female surgery that includes testicle removal, genital surgery and breast augmentation would cost a little over $30,000 while for basic female-to-male surgery that includes mastectomy, areolar reduction and genital surgery, would cost between $12,000 and $25,000 depending on the type of genital surgery chosen. Because different doctors offer different procedures, it is important to check to see exactly what is offered for a certain price.

Cost of Sex Reassignment Surgery - Consumer Information and Prices Paid - CostHelper.com


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## eflatminor (Sep 6, 2012)

tjvh said:


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But, but, but...Jilly told us those were just cosmetic and not paid for by taxpayers.  What next, are we to believe she's full of shit?  Say it isn't so!


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## eflatminor (Sep 6, 2012)

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Wow are you wrong.  Viagra can be covered under a health insurance policy if the insurance carrier chooses to provide such coverage.  That's a VERY different thing from government forcing it on the industry.

now run along...


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## tjvh (Sep 6, 2012)

eflatminor said:


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If she said it isn't happening then Jilly is wrong isn't she. Because the Taxpayer's in Buffalo are paying for their Teachers to have Boob jobs.


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## jillian (Sep 6, 2012)

tjvh said:


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jilly said 'generally'. and while i haven't had the chance to read your article yet, i'm going to be they're going to have to reimburse the insurance carriers.

oh...and for the records, the taxpayers of buffalo aren't the insurance company...and the insurance company isn't the 'taxpayers of buffalo'.

i'm also kind of wondering how the trolls on this thread went from insurance coverage for a medically diagnosed illness to talking about 'boob jobs'.

shows where the trolls' heads are.


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## Meister (Sep 6, 2012)

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Some of the nation's biggest health insurers have decided not to pay for Viagra, the new male impotence drug, under their prescription drug plans. They said that providing the recommended 6 to 12 pills per month would be too expensive, adding hundreds of millions of dollars to annual costs.
Many Insurers Are Deciding Not to Cover Cost of Viagra - NYTimes.com


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## tjvh (Sep 6, 2012)

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Thus the reason I opened my previous post with the word *IF*. The Taxpayer's pay for the Teachers, and the Teachers Union negotiates their *cushy* (really) Insurance plans which by proxy, the Taxpayer also pays for.


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## daveman (Sep 6, 2012)

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Have you thanked your wealthy Democratic leadership for their part in that?  Because, you know, they may talk like they want the rich to pay more -- but they keep voting for tax laws that let them pay less than you think they should.


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## Ravi (Sep 6, 2012)

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*
Can you tell me, please in small syllables, why anyone would want to have their gender changed just for the hell of it?

Thanks in advance!*


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## Meister (Sep 6, 2012)

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I know it's not because of a disease.
I could only guess that it's because a gay person would rather go the whole route of a sex change, Ravi.  But, like I said, it's only a guess.


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## Ravi (Sep 6, 2012)

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I don't think it really has a whole lot to do with sex.


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## daveman (Sep 6, 2012)

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Oh, by the way, did you know Georgetown covers birth control for students with a valid medical necessity?

Georgetown Rejects Sandra Fluke, No Birth Control Policy Change | LifeNews.com
As you know, like most universities, Georgetown requires that students have health insurance. Students are not required to purchase their health insurance through Georgetown University and are free to acquire health insurance through a third party. The student plan offered by Georgetown is consistent with our Catholic and Jesuit identity and does not cover prescription contraceptives for birth control.  It does provide coverage for these prescriptions for students who require them for health reasons unrelated to birth control, as determined by a physician.​So, Georgetown DOES cover birth control for students with a valid medical reason -- and there's nothing requiring students to buy Georgetown's coverage.

And she knew that when she signed up.

Fluke was less than honest.  So why did she pick Georgetown?

To stir up shit, of course:

Sandra Fluke&#8217;s Appearance Is No Fluke | Jammie Wearing Fools

You've been played by a selfish woman who thinks her rights are more important than anyone else's.


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## Meister (Sep 6, 2012)

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Changing one's sex has everything to do with sex, IMO.  Unless you're talking about getting laid....I really can't answer that, but it isn't a disease and it is a choice. 
I don't think that it should be laid on the insurance companies and certainly not AHC


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## freedombecki (Sep 6, 2012)

eflatminor said:


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That's like saying people who so greatly want to be Napoleon they tell people they are to "heal" their "dysphoria." I think they medicate that area of dysphoria. Since it's so expensive, if the people can't work hard and earn their own operations, why don't we just pay for their Valium rather than $50,000 apiece for sex changes.

That's a luxury. I'm tired of buying cadillacs for jalopies.


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## The Gadfly (Sep 6, 2012)

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I don't resent women, Jillian, but when I'm interacting with a woman, I would really like to know whether "She" is really a "SHE", or used to be a "He". Capiche?


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## beagle9 (Sep 6, 2012)

Meister said:


> Apparently, Sandra Fluke not only wants Obamacare to pay for the "pill" but also to have sex changes covered by insurance....really?
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*
It's all completely and now getting totally out of control... This is more signs of it all....So you are kidding me right? WOW!*


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## Jroc (Sep 6, 2012)

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One reason insurance is so high is because of all these stupid mandates. We should be able to taller our insurance coverage based on our own personal needs, not someone else&#8217;s. Sex change operation? Give me a break.... You liberals have gone way off the deep end



> *Murderer who strangled his wife will get $20,000 sex change paid for by the TAXPAYER because judge rules 'she' has a 'serious medical need'*
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Michelle Kosilek: Judge rules murderer will receive TAX PAYER funded sex change | Mail Online


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## Jroc (Sep 6, 2012)

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It's a psychological disorder which should be treated


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## freedombecki (Sep 6, 2012)

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Congress needs to protect the taxpayers from judges who force taxes to be raised to support these frivolous expenses.

The man murdered his wife and deserved to die for it, but instead, his state chose to keep him alive.

The judge wouldn't give a prisoner a face lift would he? 

That's just wrong all the way around. 

Taxpayers need to send a message to their representatives to pass a law against abusive judges. They abuse taxpayers, and it's wrong.


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## The Professor (Sep 6, 2012)

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I suggest that a  man wanting to become a woman is a lot more complicated than what you suppose.  Those men who suffer from gender dysphoria actually resent their male genitalia and entire male appearance.  They despise every aspect of masculinity.  I knew one male-to-female transgender person who told me that when her penis was removed, she felt that she had just gotten out of prison.  Often, gender transitions have nothing to do with sexual preferences.  I remember watching a TV show about a man who had undergone male-to-female  transgender surgery.  She appeared on the show with her lover who was also a female.   When a TV audience member asked her why she didn't just stay a male if she wanted to make love to females, she responded that who we are is one thing and who we make love to is quite another.   She was right of course.   

John Gray was right when he said men are from Mars and women are from Venus.   Men and woman live in in somewhat  if not entirely -  different worlds.   How we interact in society depends in no small measure  on our gender.  However, gender does not always account for sexual preferences.  Today, there are many strong and handsome men who are totally gay.  There are also many beautiful woman who are lesbian.  These people are content  with both their gender and their sexual preferences.    It's true that who we are is one thing, and who we make love to is another matter.


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## The Professor (Sep 6, 2012)

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I can't do it  in small syllables or even a lengthy article replete with scholarly  verbiage.

It takes an incredible amount  of determination and sacrifice to undergo the lengthy transgender  process.  The financial and emotional commitment is staggering.   Whatever the motivation, it must be powerful.     I would suggest that only extreme mental anguish would compel a person to go through the ordeal.     I cannot understand how anyone could  condemn or ridicule a person for trying to lessen the pain.


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## Moonglow (Sep 6, 2012)

Meister said:


> Apparently, Sandra Fluke not only wants Obamacare to pay for the "pill" but also to have sex changes covered by insurance....really?
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*

Do you think that Sandra wants to become,, a,, man?*


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## Noomi (Sep 6, 2012)

eflatminor said:


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Aah. You are one of the sort who completely ignore the findings of the medical community, and decide that your own personal opinion is fact.

Idiot.


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## tjvh (Sep 7, 2012)

Noomi said:


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And what findings are those? The dictionary definition of dysphoria is actually very straightforward - a state of feeling unwell or unhappy. However, that could describe anything


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## Ravi (Sep 7, 2012)

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Yeah, i was talking about getting laid....

I don't know what to think in regards to insurance but I do not think it is a choice to be born hormonally messed up to the point that you think you have the wrong body.


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## FA_Q2 (Sep 7, 2012)

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Probably all true.  Also largely irrelevant to the idea that the government should (not) be mandating that HC insurance covers such operations.


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## Jroc (Sep 7, 2012)

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Psychotherapy would be easier


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## Katzndogz (Sep 7, 2012)

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Rushbo doesn't have insurance.   He pays for everything himself.  He has made his lack of insurance quite public.


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## Katzndogz (Sep 7, 2012)

There are many kinds of mental illness.  Some mental illness doesn't lead people to dislike being men or women and want to be another gender.  Body Integrity Identity Disorder is a mental illness where people despise their limbs.  They want their legs cut off, their arms cut off.   It is a disorder.  We do not go around lopping off limbs to make these people happy, we treat them as if they had a mental illness because they do.  We don't have tax funds providing happiness to those voluntarily legless by amputating healthy limbs.    

Making people happy is not a function of the public treasury.


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## eflatminor (Sep 7, 2012)

Noomi said:


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Oh the irony.  Our resident idiot calls another an idiot while posting a complete falsehood.  Irony so thick you can eat it with a fork!  

But please, let's give the idiot a chance.  Please show us where the medical community has found that dysphoria requires a sex change operation that should be paid for with other people's money.

Idiot!


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## Katzndogz (Sep 7, 2012)

Gender dysphoria is a very real mental disorder.  It should be treated as a mental disorder.


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## Papageorgio (Sep 7, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Gender dysphoria is a very real mental disorder.  It should be treated as a mental disorder.



I agree with you there.


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## eflatminor (Sep 7, 2012)

Papageorgio said:


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Ditto


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## martybegan (Sep 7, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> There are many kinds of mental illness.  Some mental illness doesn't lead people to dislike being men or women and want to be another gender.  Body Integrity Identity Disorder is a mental illness where people despise their limbs.  They want their legs cut off, their arms cut off.   It is a disorder.  We do not go around lopping off limbs to make these people happy, we treat them as if they had a mental illness because they do.  We don't have tax funds providing happiness to those voluntarily legless by amputating healthy limbs.
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> Making people happy is not a function of the public treasury.



The thing that makes gender idenity disorder different is of course, sex. And once you get into something involving sex it makes people either squeamish or unable to critique anything having to do with it. 

Plus you have the gay rights groups seeing this as an extension to thier fight, so that adds an interest group to the discussion that would not happen for people who just want to lop off an arm, or like to cut themselves.


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## FA_Q2 (Sep 7, 2012)

martybegan said:


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> > There are many kinds of mental illness.  Some mental illness doesn't lead people to dislike being men or women and want to be another gender.  Body Integrity Identity Disorder is a mental illness where people despise their limbs.  They want their legs cut off, their arms cut off.   It is a disorder.  We do not go around lopping off limbs to make these people happy, we treat them as if they had a mental illness because they do.  We don't have tax funds providing happiness to those voluntarily legless by amputating healthy limbs.
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Yet no one in here is squeamish at all.  Many here are rejecting the idea that we should be mandated to cover sex changes though.  The idea is asinine.


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## Rozman (Sep 7, 2012)

Is there anything on this planet that Democrats *DON"T* want government to take care of,
to provide?

Is there anything at all that Democrats will say "no that is something I will take care of for the good of my 
family"....Anything at all?


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## Ravi (Sep 7, 2012)

Rozman said:


> Is there anything on this planet that Democrats *DON"T* want government to take care of,
> to provide?
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> Is there anything at all that Democrats will say "no that is something I will take care of for the good of my
> family"....Anything at all?



I dunno. If you have to pay for insurance, why shouldn't it cover you?


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## The Professor (Sep 8, 2012)

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It would be wonderful it psychotherapy worked in every case, but unfortunately it does not.    Further,   although psychotherapy is not required in sex reassignment, mental health counseling and evaluation by two qualified professionals is a must:

A qualified mental health professional who has been acquainted with the member for at least 18 months recommends sex reassignment surgery documented in the form of a written comprehensive evaluation; and  For genital surgical sex reassignment, a second concurring recommendation by another qualified mental health professional  must be documented in the form of a written expert opinion...and  at least one of the two clinical behavioral scientists making the favorable recommendation for surgical (genital) sex reassignment must possess a doctoral degree (e.g., Ph.D., Ed.D., D.Sc., D.S.W., Psy.D., or M.D.). 

Gender Reassignment Surgery

Transgender candidates go through additional psychological adjustment by being required to live in the opposite gender role for a full year. 

For both sexes, surgery is preceded by use of the appropriate sex hormone (estrogen in male-to-female transformation and testosterone in female-to-male transformation), and a real-life experience living in the opposite gender role for at least 1 year. 

Gender Identity: Sexuality: Merck Manual Home Edition

The sex-reassignment process is long, expensive and definitely life-altering.  No one would go through all of this  if psychotherapy was a reliable option.   I am certain that the mental health professionals who evaluate all transgender candidates are fully aware of the need for sex-reassignment surgery as opposed to psychotherapy.   I am certain they would always recommend the less intrusive procedure.

But that is only my own humble (and yes I lied about the humble part).


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## thanatos144 (Sep 8, 2012)

So the democrat party is the party of loveless sex and baby killing... Gee makes me want to sign right up! /sarcasm


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## Katzndogz (Sep 8, 2012)

I'm surprised Slut Fluke wasn't demanding free boob jobs and vagina tightening.


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## Jroc (Sep 8, 2012)

The Professor said:


> Jroc said:
> 
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> > The Professor said:
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It is a Psychological disorder, you don't mutilate people simply because they want they want It, and tax payers or insurance companies should not be forced to pay for such things. There are cases were people think their own hands or other part of their body is evil should we simply cut the hand off? What have we become?...give me a break


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## Meister (Sep 8, 2012)

The Professor said:


> Jroc said:
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> > The Professor said:
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It still doesn't mean that the taxpayers should have to pay for that person's NON health issue.


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## The Professor (Sep 8, 2012)

FA_Q2 said:


> The Professor said:
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> 
> > Ravi said:
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My response was relevant to the question which was asked:  Can you tell me, please in small syllables, why anyone would want to have their gender changed just for the hell of it?   However as to your concern as to whether the government should (not) be mandating that HC insurance covers such operations here is my response:

Health insurance providers should be allowed to sell any type of policy they want, to anyone they want, anywhere they want,  without any government mandates of any kind.   Government mandates always add to health insurance costs which in turn add to total health care costs.  Actually, I am one of the few people on this forum who contend that health insurance is not the solution to the present health care crisis; rather it is one of the problems.

At one time, insurance was defined as a pooling of risks in situations in which there was a low probability of  injury but the injury was associated with a devastatingly high cost.  Today people insure everything from yearly physicals to routine doctor's visits for colds and other minor complaints.  If car insurance was used to pay all expenses associated with keeping an automobile on the road, the price of gas would skyrocket.  If someone wants only catastrophic insurance, he should be able to purchase it from the most affordable provider.  If they want a plan that pays for every every conceivable malady, including hair plug transplants (actually mandated in at least one state), they should be able to throw their dollars away for such coverage. 

What's really funny is that the government prohibits health insurance companies from selling  policies across state lines.  However, the Commerce Clause of the US Constitution was designed to prevent such restrictive practices.  

The government is doing its best to keep one fact away from  American consumers:  Open, honest unrestricted competition puts ALL the power in the hands of the consumer.   When consumers decide, though their personal choices, which companies prosper and which ones fail, THEY control quality and price.   All too often, businesses run to the government for protection AGAINST consumer choices, and all to often the government -  in exchange for  campaign contributions  acquiesces.

I hope I have answered your question.


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## auditor0007 (Sep 8, 2012)

jillian said:


> Meister said:
> 
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> > Apparently, Sandra Fluke not only wants Obamacare to pay for the "pill" but also to have sex changes covered by insurance....really?
> ...


*

I understand the argument against this as the cost is great.  The problem is that, at least in most cases, there is a real need for gender reassignment.  Here again, we get into the argument of whether or not this is a choice, much as we do with those who are gay.  Of course, rational people understand gays are born gay and it is not a choice.  So too is it with those who choose gender reassignment.  Real men don't all of a sudden decide that they should become a woman because it might be a fun thing to do.  Same holds true for the reverse.*


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## Katzndogz (Sep 8, 2012)

It is a mental disorder.  Treating it as a mental disorder is what should be done, not accommodating the mental disorder.   If someone with a mental disorder wants to indulge themselves and it hurts no one else, they should be permitted to do so, but should not get others to pay for such indulgence.


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## FA_Q2 (Sep 9, 2012)

The Professor said:


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And I agree with what you stated.  My post was simply relating this to the OP, which the question/answer had nothing to do with tax monies used to cover these expenses or government mandates that it be covered.


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## Noomi (Sep 9, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> It is a mental disorder.  Treating it as a mental disorder is what should be done, not accommodating the mental disorder.   If someone with a mental disorder wants to indulge themselves and it hurts no one else, they should be permitted to do so, but should not get others to pay for such indulgence.



Even if that treatment would mean that that person would be able to lead a happier life, and would not be in need of counseling or any other mental health treatment?


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## Katzndogz (Sep 9, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > It is a mental disorder.  Treating it as a mental disorder is what should be done, not accommodating the mental disorder.   If someone with a mental disorder wants to indulge themselves and it hurts no one else, they should be permitted to do so, but should not get others to pay for such indulgence.
> ...



Absolutely.  Positively,  Unequivocally.  We are not hear to pay for someone else to be "happy".   They are deranged.   They have a disorder.   Indulging that disorder is not a function of the entire society.  We do not pay the gambling losses of the compulsive gambler no matter how happy gambling makes them.   We do not pay for the merchandise of the shoplifter, nor the whore bills of the sex addict.   No matter how happy indulging their disorder makes them.   

Your happiness is none of my business.   If someone wishes to have plastic surgery until they become disfigured, it may make them very happy, but they must pay for it themselves.


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## thanatos144 (Sep 9, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Noomi said:
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Um Sandra Fluke does want us to pay for her Whore bills.....


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## Katzndogz (Sep 9, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


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We should pay for her boob job too.  It makes her happy.

How much happiness do we owe women like this?

Sheyla Hershey's joy at having world's largest breast implants 'reinflated' after death scare | Mail Online

An infection that set in after her 30th breast enlargement operation led to 5ft 3in Sheyla undergoing emergency operation in June 2010 that left with unattractive sagging skin where her implants had been.
So obsessed was Sheyla with maintaining her Guinness World Record that the loss of her implants almost drove her to suicide. 
'Not having my breasts was killing me, I didn't know if I could make it through 2012 without them,' she said.

Because bigger implants make her "happy" do we really owe them to her?


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## thanatos144 (Sep 9, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


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We owe them not a damn thing....But like all whiney progressives they think we owe them a happy life. it is what happens when you mistake God with government
.


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## PixieStix (Sep 9, 2012)

jillian said:


> Meister said:
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> > Apparently, Sandra Fluke not only wants Obamacare to pay for the "pill" but also to have sex changes covered by insurance....really?
> ...


*

motivational deficiency disorder AKA laziness is an illness too *


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## Meister (Sep 9, 2012)

PixieStix said:


> jillian said:
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*

If not treated...AIDS and STD's can be fatal and is certainly an infection to the human body.
Sex change is not an infection and the person isn't in any danger of loss of life.*


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## PixieStix (Sep 9, 2012)

Meister said:


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I just hope it isn't catchy


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## Katzndogz (Sep 9, 2012)

Meister said:


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If someone has gender dysphoria they have a mental illness and should receive treatment for that mental illness.  Not accommodation and indulgence in having their illness catered to.  If they want to pay for their own surgeries, they should be able to do that.   Like they have to pay for breast implants and penis extensions.   We do not OWE anyone happiness.


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## Jroc (Sep 17, 2012)

Tax payers may also have to pay $500,000 in legal fees for this nutjob... Stupid liberal judges




> *Judge: Taxpayers to foot sex change killer's legal fees*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Judge: Taxpayers to foot sex change killer's legal fees | Metro News - WCVB Home


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## Papageorgio (Sep 17, 2012)

jillian said:


> Meister said:
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> > Apparently, Sandra Fluke not only wants Obamacare to pay for the "pill" but also to have sex changes covered by insurance....really?
> ...


*

Bull shit, it is a mental illness*


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## Papageorgio (Sep 17, 2012)

PixieStix said:


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*

I could get SSI for that, that would be cool.*


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## freedombecki (Sep 17, 2012)

Meister said:


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I agree, and there is too much of that kind of thing going around that targets our young people who may or may not have a conflict between moral training and experimenting. Statistics indicate they are not living in a safe world that is free of STDs. They would not have these issues if everybody waited until their wedding night and confined their sex to within the parameters of traditional marriage vows until death.

Wanting somebody to pay your way for every little whim of your fantasy is an illness, too. Demanding the government cover everything because you belong to one political party is a mistake. It's such a large mistake, people will have to overthrow Obama to get rid of the travesty that his "care package" that raises taxes on the middle class by a greater percentage than any other tax hike in the history of the United States and in the history of the world.

I don't know how people are going to be able to afford to live after paying taxes.


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## freedombecki (Sep 17, 2012)

Papageorgio said:


> jillian said:
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*
Mental illnesses are medical conditions, Papageorgio. *


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## freedombecki (Sep 17, 2012)

Jroc said:


> Tax payers may also have to pay $500,000 in legal fees for this nutjob... Stupid liberal judges
> 
> 
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That's wrong.


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## syrenn (Sep 17, 2012)

jillian said:


> Meister said:
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> ...


*


A sex change operation is... elective cosmetic surgery. 

Its no different then wanting larger breasts..... it gives the "self" the "appearance" it wants to feel better about "itself"


In my opinion... elective surgery of any kind should not be covered by public funding.  *


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## freedombecki (Sep 17, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Meister said:
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Katzndogs, many therapists see surgery as the cure for this dysphoria and will recommend it as a medical treatment to mental illness, which is considered a medical condition. 

Putting people with problems in a Bedlam holding chamber is no longer done.

Some people who have mental illness and receive treatment stop taking their medicine and the condition returns. When that happens, they are very dangerous people again, dangerous to themselves and others.

I know I sound like I'm advocating for them, but I'm at my wit's end. People today accept medical diagnoses, whereas people who were diagnosed with mental illnesses when I was growing up were considered eccentric in their best light and unworthy to live in their worst.

There don't seem to be as many pat answers as post-WWII world had. We know some conditions get better; others are dangerous because they are dependent chemically on a substance that alters the victim's outlook. When they get better they experience a euphoria that tells them all is well, why take the medicine. They withdraw, the condition returns, rinse and repeat.

If their illness results in murdering somebody else, we realize that the person may also be asocial without his medicine. The rub is when the person elects to stop medication. Some do, some don't. Medication may be highly expensive. Placing the burden for expensive medicines for convicted killers is really frustrating for people who are barely getting by because Obama wants all oil companies to pay him a stipend for his campaign, but they won't because he listens to greenies who would cheerfully kill or even hit a poorly-supervised deep sea drilling rig to get rid of drilling in the ocean completely.


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 17, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Meister said:
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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 17, 2012)

jillian said:


> Meister said:
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> > Apparently, Sandra Fluke not only wants Obamacare to pay for the "pill" but also to have sex changes covered by insurance....really?
> ...


*

It would be a real illness if the sufferer were rw but otherwise, no, you're on your own and to hell with the Constitution AND the Declaration of Independence.

rw's should get what the insurance coverage they pay for but not the rest of us.*


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## daveman (Sep 17, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


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## syrenn (Sep 17, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


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*


i really dont care if they are right or left....

public funds should not be spent on elective cosmetic surgery. *


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## Papageorgio (Sep 17, 2012)

The Professor said:


> Jroc said:
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It is elective surgery, it is not a life or death issue, it is simple. If you want it done, then pay for it.


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## freedombecki (Sep 17, 2012)

syrenn said:


> luddly.neddite said:
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I agree. Unfortunately, wards of the state may sue the state for medical treatment.

Use to, convicted murderers could not sue the state.

Now, they can.

Use to, convicted criminals lost their voting privileges for life.

Now, they can vote when they get out.

Sometimes, it's like our country has lost its compass or that the poles have moved.


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## Noomi (Sep 18, 2012)

syrenn said:


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I think they should be depending on the reasons for the surgery. If someone wanted breast implants but already had average sized boobs, I would say tough. But if they had no breast at all, or were very flat chested, then yes, because a bust will give them confidence and help with their depression.
Same with gender surgery.


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## syrenn (Sep 18, 2012)

Noomi said:


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bingo.... they wont die without it. 


Its elective cosmetic surgery. If they want it... they can damn well pay for it themselves.


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## Noomi (Sep 18, 2012)

syrenn said:


> Noomi said:
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They could die without it - the depression get so bad they could harm themselves. We shouldn't be standing back allowing that to happen.

The only things I am really opposed to the taxpayers paying for are medical treatment for smokers, and lap band/gastric bands for the obese. They damaged their own bodies, they should suffer the consequences.


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## FA_Q2 (Sep 18, 2012)

Noomi said:


> syrenn said:
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I could die of you dont pay my mortgage.  The depression is so tough to deal with.  While I am spilling the beans, I am depressed that my successful neighbor has a Jaguar and I am still rolling in my multi-colored pinto.  The state should buy me one.  As a matter of fact, if I were the person in jail, my life would be at a far greater risk of life threating depression because I was locked in a cage with a bunch of my animal brethren.

That is no argument at all.  It is asinine to say that we must give another whatever they are asking for because it might make them depressed.  They can go pound sand.  If they want the standard treatment process for depression that is another thin, a medical one.  If they want the taxpayer to shuffle them money to go through surgeries then tough shit.  You can cover that expense on your own.

There is greater risk going down the road you paint as well.  When the state must provide things to you to ensure that you are happy and protected from evil life threatening depression, there is no end to what you can demand.  There is no fantasy that the government is not required to fulfill.  After all, you might get real sad if good ol uncle Sam does not provide you with that shiny new toy.


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## FA_Q2 (Sep 18, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


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The problem here is that you&#8217;re an idiot troll that has no understanding of what the declaration of independence says let alone what it actually means.  Here is some education if you have enough brain cells to actually comprehend something:



			
				The declaration of independence said:
			
		

> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the *pursuit of Happiness.*


That&#8217;s right you sniveling toad, you are not guaranteed happiness.  It is not owed to you.  No one has to deliver it on a silver platter to your front door.  You only have the right to PERUSE happiness.  Attaining it is entirely up to you.  It does not involve requiring others to pay for your surgery or for others to provide you with anything.  You must come up with those means on your own.  
Now I realize that you don&#8217;t actually care that the founders built this country on morals and ideas that are completely contradictory to your own but dammit, I am tired of idiots like you asking others why they hate this country or the constitution or the founders or the damn declaration ect. when, in fact, it is the like of you that cannot handle what this country was supposed to represent.

_Edit: and fix your damn tags too before going around and calling others idiots._


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## Katzndogz (Sep 18, 2012)

daveman said:


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## Noomi (Sep 18, 2012)

FA_Q2 said:


> Noomi said:
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That's a silly argument. A mortgage cannot be compared to health issues.


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## Papageorgio (Sep 18, 2012)

freedombecki said:


> Papageorgio said:
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But they aren't cured by a sex change. They are done through counseling and therapy.


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## Papageorgio (Sep 18, 2012)

Noomi said:


> syrenn said:
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Anti-depressants are what you take for depression. If a man or woman loses their hair and get so depressed they want to kill themselves, now what give them transplants? What about wrinkles or a man has a small penis or a woman's breast are to small and they get so depressed they want to kill themselves, what do we do?


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## FA_Q2 (Sep 19, 2012)

Noomi said:


> FA_Q2 said:
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It far less silly than the argument youre using.  You are essentially saying that depression is life threatening so it is the job of society to treat THE CAUSE of that depression.  I dont give a shit what you attribute the depression to.  You dont get to claim that it is life threatening because it is not.  That is horse shit.  You do not get to demand that others pay for your silly fantasy either, no matter what the so called side effects MIGHT be.  Dont evade the point with your bullshit one liners.  Try and actually address the point.  If depression is the issue then you treat the depression.  You do not get to demand that your sex change is also paid for from the dole any more than I get to demand my mortgage is paid for by the dole.


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## Noomi (Sep 19, 2012)

Papageorgio said:


> Noomi said:
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Losing your hair can be fixed with a wig. You can only fix a small penis or small breasts with surgery. A man who has a very small penis may not be able to enjoy a normal sex life.


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## Papageorgio (Sep 20, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Papageorgio said:
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My point is, that depression can be handled with anti-depressants, it is not the governments responsibility to fix everything that is wrong with you. People that can't walk, live through the disability. Blind people, deaf people, mute people, I'm sure many get depressed and contemplate taking their life. But they learn to live and many learn to excel. 

Government isn't supposed to make you happy, that is your responsibility. As far as the incarcerated, who the hell cares, they are being punished because they are unable to get along with the real world, why are we responsible for elective surgery for them?


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## Katzndogz (Sep 20, 2012)

How about people driven to suicide because their partners left them.   They jump off bridges, shoot themselves.   Shouldn't there be some provision in the law making them happy by forcing those straying partners to stay?    How many suicides were there because of the movie Avatar and they knew Pandora wasn't real and didn't want to live if they couldn't live on Pandora?   Don't we owe it to them to make an artificial Pandora so they could be happy?


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## Noomi (Sep 21, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> How about people driven to suicide because their partners left them.   They jump off bridges, shoot themselves.   Shouldn't there be some provision in the law making them happy by forcing those straying partners to stay?    How many suicides were there because of the movie Avatar and they knew Pandora wasn't real and didn't want to live if they couldn't live on Pandora?   Don't we owe it to them to make an artificial Pandora so they could be happy?



We are not talking about that. We are talking about people who were born in a less than perfect body.


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## Katzndogz (Sep 21, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > How about people driven to suicide because their partners left them.   They jump off bridges, shoot themselves.   Shouldn't there be some provision in the law making them happy by forcing those straying partners to stay?    How many suicides were there because of the movie Avatar and they knew Pandora wasn't real and didn't want to live if they couldn't live on Pandora?   Don't we owe it to them to make an artificial Pandora so they could be happy?
> ...



People have a RIGHT to be born into a perfect body.    Is that what you mean?   Since they have a right to a perfect body, there is an obligation on the part of the entire nation to make each and every body perfect.

Good luck with that one.


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## Papageorgio (Sep 21, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > How about people driven to suicide because their partners left them.   They jump off bridges, shoot themselves.   Shouldn't there be some provision in the law making them happy by forcing those straying partners to stay?    How many suicides were there because of the movie Avatar and they knew Pandora wasn't real and didn't want to live if they couldn't live on Pandora?   Don't we owe it to them to make an artificial Pandora so they could be happy?
> ...



Who do you know that was born with a perfect body?


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## Katzndogz (Sep 21, 2012)

Papageorgio said:


> Noomi said:
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It doesn't matter.  A perfect body is a human RIGHT so paying for it is everybody's obligation.


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## Noomi (Sep 22, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Noomi said:
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How would you like it if you were born with huge, stick our ears, no breasts to speak of and a large nose? What if you were teased constantly, had no self confidence, and didn't have the cash to pay for surgery to transform yourself?

I tell you something, I would hope that you could get that operation for free - I believe you would be entitled to it. But that is just me, I guess.


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## Papageorgio (Sep 22, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Katzndogz said:
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As a kid you may get teased, however as an adult? Who is born with a stick in their ears? 

Sorry surgery is not a cure all and I'm not seeing being born one sex or another as a defect. It is a mental issue, not a physical issue. 

Still have told me who is born perfect.


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## Katzndogz (Sep 22, 2012)

Noomi said:


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That's why Romney was absolutely correct when he spoke about an entitlement mentality.


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## Katzndogz (Sep 22, 2012)

We should have paid for this woman's 30 breast augmentation surgeries since it made her "feel good".

Woman Could Lose 'World's Largest Breasts' to Infection | Fox News


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## thanatos144 (Sep 22, 2012)

Why dont you progressive just leave people alone to live their life???? Why is it any of your business what people do or want????


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## FA_Q2 (Sep 23, 2012)

Noomi said:


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Wow, just wow.  You think that you are entitled to anything you want.  That is flat out insane.  

You are not entitled to anything.  Everything must be paid for by someone.  Taking from others because you dont like your breasts or your ears is unconscionable.  It is a strange world that you live in where everyone is entitled to others work simply because they feel bad about something or want something.


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## Noomi (Sep 23, 2012)

I never said that I believe I am entitled to anything I want. It depends on what you want and why.


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## Papageorgio (Sep 23, 2012)

Noomi said:


> I never said that I believe I am entitled to anything I want. It depends on what you want and why.



And if you can afford it.


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## Papageorgio (Sep 23, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> We should have paid for this woman's 30 breast augmentation surgeries since it made her "feel good".
> 
> Woman Could Lose 'World's Largest Breasts' to Infection | Fox News



They had to reduce them, then she tried to kill herself twice because they were reduced, should we a taxpayers pay for this?


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## stars (Sep 23, 2012)

Rozman said:


> jillian said:
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I have the website of my professor from school who made bondage photography...perhaps we can connect sandra with him. Or Osama I mean Obama...I heard he's gay anyway.


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## Katzndogz (Sep 23, 2012)

Don't we owe the unloved a partner?    When you come right down to it, men who can't find a willing sex partner must be very unhappy.  Don't we owe it to them to pay their whore bills?


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 23, 2012)

What about lushbo's Viagra?

Taxpayers should pay for that, right?

cuz, hey, we don't the poor guy's shriveled little gherkin that he hasn't even seen since before junior high to get all lonely and he doesn't want to send his maid to smuggle it in for him.


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## Noomi (Sep 23, 2012)

Papageorgio said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > We should have paid for this woman's 30 breast augmentation surgeries since it made her "feel good".
> ...



She never needed those enlargements in the first place. If she had one surgery because she needed more self confidence, I wouldn't have an issue. Its when you keep having surgery despite not needing to, that is the problem.


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## Noomi (Sep 23, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Don't we owe the unloved a partner?    When you come right down to it, men who can't find a willing sex partner must be very unhappy.  Don't we owe it to them to pay their whore bills?



You are taking my opinions way out of context. Please don't twist what I say.


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## Meister (Sep 23, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> What about lushbo's Viagra?
> 
> Taxpayers should pay for that, right?
> 
> cuz, hey, we don't the poor guy's shriveled little gherkin that he hasn't even seen since before junior high to get all lonely and he doesn't want to send his maid to smuggle it in for him.



Rushbo paid for his own Viagra.


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 23, 2012)

Meister said:


> luddly.neddite said:
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> 
> > What about lushbo's Viagra?
> ...



Care to point out EXACTLY where I said he didn't?

I have no doubt that it was expensive for him to buy it on the black market and have his maid sneak it into the country. And, I have no doubt he paid the black market price for it. 

But, to my knowledge, he didn't do any jail time for smuggling drugs into the US.


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## thanatos144 (Sep 23, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > luddly.neddite said:
> ...


So your admitting to being dishonest.


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## Papageorgio (Sep 24, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



You can't have one surgery to reach her size, it takes several, it has to stretch the tissue, it was all in the articles. 

So her identity issue is actually tied to her self esteem, she felt inadequate and depressed, and her lack of size makes her suicidal. She felt in her mind she was imperfect, just like those that don't care for the sex they were given.


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## Papageorgio (Sep 24, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> What about lushbo's Viagra?
> 
> Taxpayers should pay for that, right?
> 
> cuz, hey, we don't the poor guy's shriveled little gherkin that he hasn't even seen since before junior high to get all lonely and he doesn't want to send his maid to smuggle it in for him.



Nope, men need to pay for their own Viagra.


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 24, 2012)

Papageorgio said:


> luddly.neddite said:
> 
> 
> > What about lushbo's Viagra?
> ...



My point is that, to my knowledge, most insurance companies will pay for viagra.

Further, neither insurance companies nor employers should be involved in health care decisions. As it is now, insurance companies decide what gets covered and what does not. If pubpots get their way, employers will be able to decide to deny certain employees coverage.


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## Katzndogz (Sep 24, 2012)

Employers cannot deny anyone any kind of coverage the employees want to get.   Employers just decide what they will pay for.  There is no proposal to deny coverage or surgery to anyone.


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