# But Sweden has gun control...and their gun control laws don't work?   But......how is this possible?



## 2aguy (Apr 15, 2022)

Gang shootings in Sweden....yes.....Sweden, home of the Swedish Bikini Team.....are seeing an increase in gang shootings.......largely due to immigrant gangs.....

But...we here in the U.S. are told, constantly, that Europe controls guns.......

Not so much.....









						Expert: 'Terrible Year' As Swedish Fatal Shootings Could Break Records
					

Expert Gunnar Appelgren has warned Sweden could be in for a "terrible year" fatal shootings could break records if current trends continue.




					www.breitbart.com
				






And the original source for the story...for those leftists about to bitch about Breitbart.....

*Appelgren noted that many of the killings are linked to criminal gang activity and revenge disputes between gang members. “There are still very violent conflicts and spirals where revenge begets revenge. The very first crime of trying to kill someone creates this spiral of violence,” he said.*

*In recent years, Swedish police have managed to get scores of gang members off the streets of cities like Malmö, largely thanks to the hacking of the encrypted messaging app EncroChat, which was widely used by organized criminals across the country. ‘Europe.
----
However, according to Appelgren, gang members who were taken off the streets have been replaced by younger gang members who are just as willing to use guns.*











						'A terrible year' as fatal shootings in Sweden could break records
					

Swedish police gang crime expert Gunnar Appelgren has warned Sweden could have a "terrible year" as the number of fatal shootings could hit new records if



					goodwordnews.com
				




Can any of you anti-gun fascists explain how it is that young Swedes are getting guns that are illegal for them to own, let alone carry?


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## candycorn (Apr 15, 2022)

When you can itemize the gun crime in other nations ad we have approximately 100 gun killings a day...they clearly are doing something right.


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## 2aguy (Apr 15, 2022)

candycorn said:


> When you can itemize the gun crime in other nations ad we have approximately 100 gun killings a day...they clearly are doing something right.




Well...for one, their criminals don't use their illegal guns to commit murder....perhaps we could have some of their criminals come over to our democrat party controlled cities and give lectures on why you don't have to use your illegal gun to commit murder........


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## JackOfNoTrades (Apr 15, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Gang shootings in Sweden....yes.....Sweden, home of the Swedish Bikini Team.....are seeing an increase in gang shootings.......largely due to immigrant gangs.....
> 
> But...we here in the U.S. are told, constantly, that Europe controls guns.......
> 
> ...


20 fatal shootings in four months? LOL. 

Get back to me when they get within sniffing distance of our tally.
You do the math...jeez. 






						List of mass shootings in the United States in 2022 - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## rightwinger (Apr 15, 2022)

I will take Swedens murder rate by guns over ours any day
The US a has FIVE TIMES the murder rate of Sweden

Lets implement Swedens gun control laws
Keep America Safe…..
Ban Guns


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## Failzero (Apr 15, 2022)

The Browning Of Europe has consequences


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## Captain Caveman (Apr 15, 2022)

Failzero said:


> The Browning Of Europe has consequences


Sweden sits among the world’s top countries with the highest guns owned per capita -

Sweden Gun Laws and Gun Ownership in Sweden


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## Failzero (Apr 15, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Sweden sits among the world’s top countries with the highest guns owned per capita -
> 
> Sweden Gun Laws and Gun Ownership in Sweden


Easier for Islamists & various turd worlders there to arm up then ?


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## 2aguy (Apr 15, 2022)

JackOfNoTrades said:


> 20 fatal shootings in four months? LOL.
> 
> Get back to me when they get within sniffing distance of our tally.
> You do the math...jeez.
> ...




And again.....you idiots tell us gun control works.....the Swedish criminals have lots and lots of guns...not just guns, but fully automatic military rifles..which are their preferred guns.....and....they use hand grenades.

What you simplistic morons don't understand is intent.   Their criminals use their illegal guns less often to actually commit murder.....our criminals commit murder because they choose to shoot to kill.

You don't understand this difference, that is why you are dangerous.


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## 2aguy (Apr 15, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Sweden sits among the world’s top countries with the highest guns owned per capita -
> 
> Sweden Gun Laws and Gun Ownership in Sweden




But wait....you just contradicted the entire argument of jackofnotrade.......you and that idiot both say the mere presence of guns means more gun murder.....the Swedes show, that with access to easily acquired, fully automatic military rifles, and hand grenades......neither of which our criminals in the U.S. use.....they commit fewer murders....

So, you idiot......it isn't the presence of guns that leads to more gun murder...it is the intent of the criminals to commit murder that causes the actual murder.

Meanwhile.....you then have to explain why it is that as more Americans owned and carried guns over a 27 year period.....the exact opposite of what you say will happen, happened...

Our gun murder rate went down...not up.....you idiots say that isn't what will happen.

Our gun crime rate went down...not up.....the exact opposite of what you say will happen.

Our violent crime rate went down....not up.....the exact opposite of what you idiots say will happen....

How do the two of you explain that......?

The answer?  You don't.....you pretend not to see the question.....

Over  27 years,  from 1993  to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

*Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.*


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## bodecea (Apr 15, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Gang shootings in Sweden....yes.....Sweden, home of the Swedish Bikini Team.....are seeing an increase in gang shootings.......largely due to immigrant gangs.....
> 
> But...we here in the U.S. are told, constantly, that Europe controls guns.......
> 
> ...


They have way fewer people with blood on their hands than we do here in the U.S.


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## 2aguy (Apr 15, 2022)

rightwinger said:


> I will take Swedens murder rate by guns over ours any day
> The US a has FIVE TIMES the murder rate of Sweden
> 
> Lets implement Swedens gun control laws
> ...




To do that, you need to exchange our criminals for their criminals.....you do that, their crime rate will spike, our crime rate will go down...it has nothing to do with gun ownership.....


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## 2aguy (Apr 15, 2022)

bodecea said:


> They have way fewer people with blood on their hands than we do here in the U.S.




The Swedes...maybe...but the rest of Europe has to explain the murder of 15 million innocent men, women and children....more innocent people murdered in a six year period than 82 years of American criminals with guns murdering other criminals.....


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## Flash (Apr 15, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Sweden sits among the world’s top countries with the highest guns owned per capita -
> 
> Sweden Gun Laws and Gun Ownership in Sweden


So they use their fire arms for hunting. Big fucking deal.

_The government strictly regulates Sweden gun laws as every gun owner must obtain a legal license to own a gun. As mentioned, most gun ownership legal licenses are held by wildlife hunters with a minimum age of 18. _

Newsflash Moon Bat, the Second Amendment is not about hunting.


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## 2aguy (Apr 15, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Sweden sits among the world’s top countries with the highest guns owned per capita -
> 
> Sweden Gun Laws and Gun Ownership in Sweden




Can you point out which Swedish gun law allows their convicted criminals to own, carry and use fully automatic military rifles and grenades?   I looked through there and I couldn't find those rules.......

Crime gangs in Sweden: What's behind the rise in the use of explosives?

*The frequent use of explosives is a relatively recent phenomenon, and criminologists told The Local that the blasts can be seen as part of an overall rise in violence and growing recklessness in these criminal networks.

Amir Rostami, a police superintendent turned sociologist with a focus on criminal gangs, told The Local that so-called 'street gangs' are showing an increased tendency towards violence, and that this violence was becoming more severe when it took place.

"If previously they maybe fired one shot or shot someone in the legs, today it's more about AK47s, using more bullets, hand grenades and explosions that we didn't see before. I'd say that's the biggest shift we see – they're more reckless, they don't seem to care about the consequences," Rostami said.

Fatal shootings linked to criminal gangs have increased from around four per year in the early 1990s to over 40 in 2018. And while the blasts that have taken place in Sweden have caused no fatalities so far this year, they could be seen as a sign that the gangs are unafraid of causing damage and potentially harming people.
No, Sweden, hand grenade attacks aren’t an ‘image’ problem

In 2018 there were 162 bombings reported to police, and 93 reported in the first five months of this year, 30 more than during the same period in 2018. The level of attacks is “extreme in a country that is not at war,” Crime Commissioner Gunnar Appelgren told SVT last year.
-------
The use of hand grenades is a purely Swedish phenomenon too, with no other country in Europe reporting their use on such a level, a police manager told Swedish Radio in 2016, a year after attacks first spiked.

The grenades used almost exclusively originate in the former Yugoslavia, and are sold in Sweden for around $100 per piece. But while only three hand grenades were thrown in Kosovo between 2013 and 2014, more than 20 have been used in Sweden every year since 2015.

More broadly, homicide has risen in Sweden, with more than 300 shootings reported last year, causing 45 deaths. Though homicide rates had been in decline since 2002, they again began trending upwards in 2015, as did rapes and sexual assaults, which more than tripled in the last four years.

Of course, 2015 was also the year in which Sweden flung open its doors to more than 160,000 asylum seekers, more per capita than any other European country.
-------

Dagens Nyheter pointed out that 90 percent of shooting perpetrators in Sweden are either first or second generation immigrants.*​

Again....can you please point to the place in Swedish gun laws that allow criminal gangs to have fully automatic military rifles and grenades.....I couldn't find it....


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## JackOfNoTrades (Apr 15, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And again.....you idiots tell us gun control works.....the Swedish criminals have lots and lots of guns...not just guns, but fully automatic military rifles..which are their preferred guns.....and....they use hand grenades.
> 
> What you simplistic morons don't understand is intent.   Their criminals use their illegal guns less often to actually commit murder.....our criminals commit murder because they choose to shoot to kill.
> 
> You don't understand this difference, that is why you are dangerous



Uhh, it does Jim. Compare the violent shootings and death in these country compared to ours.
Not even close. If you're expecting to make the argument that gun control eliminated gun murders and violence completely, you're not playing with a full deck.


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## TheParser (Apr 15, 2022)

Sweden does not deserve any sympathy.

Wise people warned against letting in so many ladies and gentlemen from other cultures.

But the liberal Swedes answered "No problem."

You reap what you sow.


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## Captain Caveman (Apr 15, 2022)

2aguy said:


> But wait....you just contradicted the entire argument of jackofnotrade.......you and that idiot both say the mere presence of guns means more gun murder.....the Swedes show, that with access to easily acquired, fully automatic military rifles, and hand grenades......neither of which our criminals in the U.S. use.....they commit fewer murders....
> 
> So, you idiot......it isn't the presence of guns that leads to more gun murder...it is the intent of the criminals to commit murder that causes the actual murder.
> 
> ...


^^ Copy and paste shite.


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## Captain Caveman (Apr 15, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Can you point out which Swedish gun law allows their convicted criminals to own, carry and use fully automatic military rifles and grenades?   I looked through there and I couldn't find those rules.......
> 
> Crime gangs in Sweden: What's behind the rise in the use of explosives?​​*The frequent use of explosives is a relatively recent phenomenon, and criminologists told The Local that the blasts can be seen as part of an overall rise in violence and growing recklessness in these criminal networks.*​​*Amir Rostami, a police superintendent turned sociologist with a focus on criminal gangs, told The Local that so-called 'street gangs' are showing an increased tendency towards violence, and that this violence was becoming more severe when it took place.*​​*"If previously they maybe fired one shot or shot someone in the legs, today it's more about AK47s, using more bullets, hand grenades and explosions that we didn't see before. I'd say that's the biggest shift we see – they're more reckless, they don't seem to care about the consequences," Rostami said.*​​*Fatal shootings linked to criminal gangs have increased from around four per year in the early 1990s to over 40 in 2018. And while the blasts that have taken place in Sweden have caused no fatalities so far this year, they could be seen as a sign that the gangs are unafraid of causing damage and potentially harming people.*​*No, Sweden, hand grenade attacks aren’t an ‘image’ problem*​​*In 2018 there were 162 bombings reported to police, and 93 reported in the first five months of this year, 30 more than during the same period in 2018. The level of attacks is “extreme in a country that is not at war,” Crime Commissioner Gunnar Appelgren told SVT last year.*​*-------*​*The use of hand grenades is a purely Swedish phenomenon too, with no other country in Europe reporting their use on such a level, a police manager told Swedish Radio in 2016, a year after attacks first spiked.*​​*The grenades used almost exclusively originate in the former Yugoslavia, and are sold in Sweden for around $100 per piece. But while only three hand grenades were thrown in Kosovo between 2013 and 2014, more than 20 have been used in Sweden every year since 2015.*​​*More broadly, homicide has risen in Sweden, with more than 300 shootings reported last year, causing 45 deaths. Though homicide rates had been in decline since 2002, they again began trending upwards in 2015, as did rapes and sexual assaults, which more than tripled in the last four years.*​​*Of course, 2015 was also the year in which Sweden flung open its doors to more than 160,000 asylum seekers, more per capita than any other European country.*​*-------*​​*Dagens Nyheter pointed out that 90 percent of shooting perpetrators in Sweden are either first or second generation immigrants.*​
> 
> Again....can you please point to the place in Swedish gun laws that allow criminal gangs to have fully automatic military rifles and grenades.....I couldn't find it....


^^ More copy and paste shite.


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## 2aguy (Apr 15, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> ^^ More copy and paste shite.




You guys really are dumb....

You accuse us of making unsupported statements, then when we support them, with overwhelming facts and information...you bitch about our supplying that information....you truly are morons...


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Apr 16, 2022)

candycorn said:


> When you can itemize the gun crime in other nations ad we have approximately 100 gun killings a day...they clearly are doing something right.


We don't have 100 gun murders a day.  Stop lying...lol.  The overall murder rate in the states isn't even 100 per day.

The answer to the crime increase in Sweden is the introduction of more non-white immigrants.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Apr 16, 2022)

JackOfNoTrades said:


> Uhh, it does Jim. Compare the violent shootings and death in these country compared to ours.
> Not even close. If you're expecting to make the argument that gun control eliminated gun murders and violence completely, you're not playing with a full deck.


Those countries are 99% white.  That's why their murder rates are so low.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Apr 16, 2022)

rightwinger said:


> I will take Swedens murder rate by guns over ours any day
> The US a has FIVE TIMES the murder rate of Sweden
> 
> Lets implement Swedens gun control laws
> ...


Could be worse: we could have Mexico's murder rate.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Apr 16, 2022)

bodecea said:


> They have way fewer people with blood on their hands than we do here in the U.S.


They have fewer people, period...lol


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## theHawk (Apr 16, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Gang shootings in Sweden....yes.....Sweden, home of the Swedish Bikini Team.....are seeing an increase in gang shootings.......largely due to immigrant gangs.....
> 
> But...we here in the U.S. are told, constantly, that Europe controls guns.......
> 
> ...


Thank goodness they have “culture” now.


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## theHawk (Apr 16, 2022)

candycorn said:


> When you can itemize the gun crime in other nations ad we have approximately 100 gun killings a day...they clearly are doing something right.


Yea, they don’t have tens of millions of ghetto blacks or Latinos.


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## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

theHawk said:


> Yea, they don’t have tens of millions of ghetto blacks or Latinos.


The old if we just get rid of the minorities argument.   Lol


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## Failzero (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> The old if we just get rid of the minorities argument.   Lol


They have an eclectic mix of Arabs and North Africans ( with a sprinkling of Turks and bulgars


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## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Sweden had 47 gun deaths in 2020.


We call that a Tuesday in America


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## Failzero (Apr 16, 2022)

How many rapes ?


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## 2aguy (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Sweden had 47 gun deaths in 2020.
> 
> 
> We call that a Tuesday in America



With their gun control they shouldn’t have any……,,,

Their criminals use fully automatic military rifles and hand grenades…..would you please show us where in the Swedish gun control laws, criminals are allowed to own and  fire fully automatic military rifles at each other on the streets of Malmo?

Their criminals have and use fully automatic military rifles and grenades, they just don’t choose to commit murder with them…….when they get around to committing murder?  Swedish gun control is t going to stop them.


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## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> With their gun control they shouldn’t have any……,,,
> 
> Their criminals use fully automatic military rifles and hand grenades…..would you please show us where in the Swedish gun control laws, criminals are allowed to own and  fire fully automatic military rifles at each other on the streets of Malmo?
> 
> Their criminals have and use fully automatic military rifles and grenades, they just don’t choose to commit murder with them…….when they get around to committing murder?  Swedish gun control is t going to stop them.


I see.  If we cant have perfect gun control we should have none.  Lol


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## JackOfNoTrades (Apr 17, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Those countries are 99% white.  That's why their murder rates are so low.


The reason their murder rates are so low is because they don't have the ready access to guns and ammunition that we have.
End of story.


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## 2aguy (Apr 17, 2022)

JackOfNoTrades said:


> The reason their murder rates are so low is because they don't have the ready access to guns and ammunition that we have.
> End of story.




No......that is a lie......you would have to explain this...

Over  27 years,  from 1993  to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

*Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Then you would have to explain how it is that in Sweden, where their criminals use fully automatic military rifles and grenades, they still have a low gun murder rate.......you can't explain that....*


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## 2aguy (Apr 17, 2022)

JackOfNoTrades said:


> The reason their murder rates are so low is because they don't have the ready access to guns and ammunition that we have.
> End of story.




Their murder rates are low because they have citizens who choose not to commit murder........guns do not take possession of the body of people and cause them to shoot each other, you dumb ass.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Apr 17, 2022)

JackOfNoTrades said:


> The reason their murder rates are so low is because they don't have the ready access to guns and ammunition that we have.
> End of story.


Mexico doesn't have ready access to guns the way we do and their murder rate is 3x higher than ours.  Fact.


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## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Mexico doesn't have ready access to guns the way we do and their murder rate is 3x higher than ours.  Fact.


Mexico has ready access to vast numbers of guns 


Gun laws do not apply to drug cartels that own the police 


Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Mexico doesn't have ready access to guns the way we do and their murder rate is 3x higher than ours.  Fact.


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## JackOfNoTrades (Apr 17, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Mexico doesn't have ready access to guns the way we do and their murder rate is 3x higher than ours.  Fact.


Do we have multiple armed drug cartels operating out in the open in this country?..If your answer is no, then this analogy isn't valid.


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## 2aguy (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Mexico has ready access to vast numbers of guns
> 
> 
> Gun laws do not apply to drug cartels that own the police




Wrong......Mexico has one gun store, it is located on a military base, and only the rich and politically connected have access.............Mexican criminals, however, get all the guns they want, a lot of them from the Mexican military.

Why don't gun laws apply to drug cartels?   You guys tell us that gun laws stop gun crime, so drug cartels should be stopped by those gun control laws...


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## 2aguy (Apr 17, 2022)

JackOfNoTrades said:


> Do we have multiple armed drug cartels operating out in the open in this country?..If your answer is no, then this analogy isn't valid.




We have drug cartels operating in our democrat party controlled cities.......as well as American gangs who also control the drug trade in democrat party controlled cities....


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## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Wrong......Mexico has one gun store, it is located on a military base, and only the rich and politically connected have access.............Mexican criminals, however, get all the guns they want, a lot of them from the Mexican military.
> 
> Why don't gun laws apply to drug cartels?   You guys tell us that gun laws stop gun crime, so drug cartels should be stopped by those gun control laws...


You have to be kidding if you think Mexico does not have tons of guns.  The cartels own the cops....those laws dont apply to them


Come on man


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## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> We have drug cartels operating in our democrat party controlled cities.......as well as American gangs who also control the drug trade in democrat party controlled cities....


Name a country with gun laws you admire that has low gun deaths


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## 2aguy (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> You have to be kidding if you think Mexico does not have tons of guns.  The cartels own the cops....those laws dont apply to them
> 
> 
> Come on man




I didn't say that, you moron.....read my post, slowly, or have someone read it to you.....

There is one gun store in Mexico....it is on an army base with extremely limited access for Mexican Citizens......only the politically connected and wealthy have access to it....

The drug cartels get all the guns they want......even though it is against the law for them to have those guns.....they have military weapons, military rifles, as well as other military weapons...supplied to a great extent by the Mexican military.......

You doofus.........

Mexican citizens have almost zero access to legal guns, while the criminals get all the guns they want.....perfect gun control....


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## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> I didn't say that, you moron.....read my post, slowly, or have someone read it to you.....
> 
> There is one gun store in Mexico....it is on an army base with extremely limited access for Mexican Citizens......only the politically connected and wealthy have access to it....
> 
> ...


Actually they get tons of guns from the US.


So you admit gun laws only work if you cant pay off the cops


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## 2aguy (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Name a country with gun laws you admire that has low gun deaths




The U.S..........our Right to keep and bear arms should be the model for the world.....then you wouldn't have Russia invading Ukraine, you wouldn't have the crime rates that we have in our extreme gun controlled democrat party run cities.....

We don't have a gun problem in the U.S...we have a criminal problem fueled by the democrat party and it's policies on crime.....1) attacking and handicapping the police, and 2) releasing the most violent criminals over and over again....

Brazil recently increased the ability of their citizens to own guns...their gun murder rate went down.......


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## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> The U.S..........our Right to keep and bear arms should be the model for the world.....then you wouldn't have Russia invading Ukraine, you wouldn't have the crime rates that we have in our extreme gun controlled democrat party run cities.....
> 
> We don't have a gun problem in the U.S...we have a criminal problem fueled by the democrat party and it's policies on crime.....1) attacking and handicapping the police, and 2) releasing the most violent criminals over and over again....
> 
> Brazil recently increased the ability of their citizens to own guns...their gun murder rate went down.......


I said LOW GUN DEATHS 


Try again.   Just one will do


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## 2aguy (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Actually they get tons of guns from the US.
> 
> 
> So you admit gun laws only work if you cant pay off the cops




Gun laws don't work, you doofus.....since as you said, if you are willing to break the law, you can get guns.....

They get guns from the U.S. primarily through the Mexican military.   The U.S. supplies the Mexican military, then the generals and other members sell those guns to the cartels.......

When the government can't or won't protect the citizens, as Mexico shows us.....the Right to Keep and Bear arms is vital for protecting the normal people from criminals and their government...


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## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Gun laws don't work, you doofus.....since as you said, if you are willing to break the law, you can get guns.....
> 
> They get guns from the U.S. primarily through the Mexican military.   The U.S. supplies the Mexican military, then the generals and other members sell those guns to the cartels.......
> 
> When the government can't or won't protect the citizens, as Mexico shows us.....the Right to Keep and Bear arms is vital for protecting the normal people from criminals and their government...


Dude they drive truckloads of guns across the border from the US to Mexico 

Still waiting for that country 


Want me to name the ones with low gun deaths?


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## 2aguy (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> I said LOW GUN DEATHS
> 
> 
> Try again.   Just one will do



The U.S.....again....our Right to Keep and Bear arms means we have freedom...the countries of Europe?

In the 1920s and 30s they banned and confiscated guns......in 1939, the German socialists murdered 15 million innocent men, women and children.......in a 6 year period.....

Those 15 million murdered people are more people murdered in less time than all the gun murder in the U.S. over 82 years....so no, you don't get to play your game.....those 15 million get thrown into the tally, and that means Europe has a higher murder rate than the U.S.......

Our Right to keep and bear arms is meant to protect us from both criminals and the government......


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## 2aguy (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Dude they drive truckloads of guns across the border from the US to Mexico
> 
> Still waiting for that country
> 
> ...




Yes....in military trucks, you idiot..........the primary source of weapons for the drug cartels in Mexico is the Mexican government and military.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Gang shootings in Sweden....yes.....Sweden, home of the Swedish Bikini Team.....are seeing an increase in gang shootings.......largely due to immigrant gangs.....
> 
> But...we here in the U.S. are told, constantly, that Europe controls guns.......
> 
> ...


Don’t diss Abba or you get the bullets.


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## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> The U.S.....again....our Right to Keep and Bear arms means we have freedom...the countries of Europe?
> 
> In the 1920s and 30s they banned and confiscated guns......in 1939, the German socialists murdered 15 million innocent men, women and children.......in a 6 year period.....
> 
> ...


So you believe the US has low gun deaths?


Dude.....be serious


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## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yes....in military trucks, you idiot..........the primary source of weapons for the drug cartels in Mexico is the Mexican government and military.


Prove it


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## 2aguy (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> So you believe the US has low gun deaths?
> 
> 
> Dude.....be serious




Yeah.....I do.......our gun murders are confined to tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities........the rest of the country is as good or better than Europe....stay out of the democrat party cities, in particular a tiny area in those very cities, and you won't be a victim of gun murder....


----------



## JackOfNoTrades (Apr 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> We have drug cartels operating in our democrat party controlled cities.......as well as American gangs who also control the drug trade in democrat party controlled cities....


Openly? Brazenly? C'mon, not even you can add enough water to make that argument float.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yeah.....I do.......our gun murders are confined to tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities........the rest of the country is as good or better than Europe....stay out of the democrat party cities, in particular a tiny area in those very cities, and you won't be a victim of gun murder....


So if you exclude the gun deaths we have low gun deaths


Dude....that is priceless!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Prove it



Okay....










						Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth
					

It is a common claim that almost all the weapons used by Mexican drug cartels come from the United States, but the numbers don't add up.




					worldview.stratfor.com
				





Types and Sources of Guns​To gain an understanding of the dynamics of the gun flow inside Mexico, it helps if one divides the guns seized by Mexican authorities from criminals into three broad categories — which, incidentally, just happen to represent three different sources.

Type 1: Guns Legally Available in Mexico​The first category of weapons encountered in Mexico is weapons available legally for sale in Mexico through UCAM. These include handguns smaller than a .357 magnum such as .380 and .38 Special.

A large portion of this first type of guns used by criminals is purchased in Mexico, or stolen from their legitimate owners. While UCAM does have very strict regulations for civilians to purchase guns, criminals will use straw purchasers to obtain firearms from UCAM or obtain them from corrupt officials. Cartel hit men in Mexico commonly use .380 pistols equipped with sound suppressors in their assassinations. In many cases, these pistols are purchased in Mexico, the suppressors are locally manufactured and the guns are adapted to receive the suppressors by Mexican gunsmiths.

It must be noted, though, that because of the cost and hassle of purchasing guns in Mexico, many of the guns in this category are purchased in the United States and smuggled into the country. There are a lot of cheap guns available on the U.S. market, and they can be sold at a premium in Mexico. Indeed, guns in this category, such as .380 pistols and .22-caliber rifles and pistols, are among the guns most commonly traced back to the United States. Still, the numbers do not indicate that 90 percent of guns in this category come from the United States.

Additionally, most of the explosives the cartels have been using in improvised explosive devices (IEDs) in Mexico over the past year have used commercially available Tovex, so we consider these explosives to fall in this first category. Mexican IEDs are another area where the rhetoric has been interesting to analyze, but we will explore this topic another time.
-----

Type 2: Guns Legally Available in the U.S. but Not in Mexico​Many popular handgun calibers, such as 9 mm, .45 and .40, are reserved for the military and police and are not available for sale to civilians in Mexico. These guns, which are legally sold and very popular in the United States, comprise our second category, which also includes .50-caliber rifles, semiautomatic versions of assault rifles like the AK-47 and M16 and the FN Five-Seven pistol.

When we consider this second type of guns, a large number of them encountered in Mexico are likely purchased in the United States. Indeed, the GAO report notes that many of the guns most commonly traced back to the United States fall into this category. There are also many .45-caliber and 9 mm semiautomatic pistols and .357 revolvers obtained from deserters from the Mexican military and police, purchased from corrupt Mexican authorities or even brought in from South America (guns made by manufacturers such as Taurus and Bersa). This category also includes semiautomatic variants of assault rifles and main battle rifles, which are often converted by Mexican gunsmiths to be capable of fully automatic fire.

One can buy these types of weapons on the international arms market, but one pays a premium for such guns and it is cheaper and easier to simply buy them in the United States or South America and smuggle them into Mexico. In fact, there is an entire cottage industry that has developed to smuggle such weapons, and not all the customers are cartel hit men. There are many Mexican citizens who own guns in calibers such as .45, 9 mm, .40 and .44 magnum for self-defense — even though such guns are illegal in Mexico.

Type 3: Guns Not Available for Civilian Purchase in Mexico or the U.S.​The third category of weapons encountered in Mexico is military-grade ordnance not generally available for sale in the United States or Mexico. This category includes hand grenades, 40 mm grenades, rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs), automatic assault rifles and main battle rifles and light machine guns.

This third type of weapon is fairly difficult and very expensive to obtain in the United States, especially in the large numbers in which the cartels are employing them. They are also dangerous to obtain in the United States due to heavy law enforcement scrutiny. Therefore, most of the military ordnance used by the Mexican cartels comes from other sources, such as the international arms market — increasingly from China via the same networks that furnish precursor chemicals for narcotics manufacturing — or from corrupt elements in the Mexican military or even deserters who take their weapons with them. Besides, items such as South Korean fragmentation grenades and RPG-7s, often used by the cartels, simply are not in the U.S. arsenal. This means that very few of the weapons in this category come from the United States.

In recent years the cartels, especially their enforcer groups such as Los Zetas, Gente Nueva and La Linea, have been increasingly using military weaponry instead of sporting arms. A close examination of the arms seized from the enforcer groups and their training camps clearly demonstrates this trend toward military ordnance, including many weapons not readily available in the United States. Some of these seizures have included M60 machine guns and hundreds of 40 mm grenades obtained from the military arsenals of countries like Guatemala.

But Guatemala is not the only source of such weapons. Latin America is awash in weapons that were shipped there over the past several decades to supply the various insurgencies and counterinsurgencies in the region. When these military-grade weapons are combined with the rampant corruption in the region, they quickly find their way into the black arms market. The Mexican cartels have supply-chain contacts that help move narcotics to Mexico from South America, and they are able to use this same network to obtain guns from the black market in South and Central America and then smuggle them into Mexico. While there are many weapons in this category that were manufactured in the United States, the overwhelming majority of the U.S.-manufactured weapons of this third type encountered in Mexico — like LAW rockets and M60 machine guns — come into Mexico from third countries and not directly from the United States.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...n-control-laws-a-model-for-the-united-states/


Whatever the exact percentage, it is incorrect to assert that purchases from American gun stores for the purposes of smuggling into Mexico are the prime source of American guns in Mexico. To the contrary, of the Mexican guns that are successfully traced to the U.S., the average firearms age is fifteen years, according to data compiled by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives. The age of these guns is strong evidence that they were legal American guns that were stolen and then sold into the black market–and not guns which were bought at a gun store as part of a plan for them to be immediately transported to Mexico.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2011/ryan-mauro/where-drug-cartels-really-get-their-arms/2/

Stratfor: The World's Leading Geopolitical Intelligence Platform

weapons-manufacturing-capabilities/

*Intelligence reports indicate that one of Mexico’s most dangerous cartels continues to increase their capabilities by manufacturing weapons. The arms are built in clandestine factories with advanced technology and practices.*​*-*-------

To maintain their growing power, CJNG is building clandestine arms factories in Colima and Jalisco, specializing in assault rifles. The weapons are clones of the popular AR-15 rifles and AK-47s in .223cal, 7.62x39mm, and .308cal. The weapons can be identified by their lacking factory markings and serial numbers. Additionally, some of the arms are metallic in color since some factories do not apply the matte finish to protect from rust.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Okay....
> 
> 
> 
> ...







__





						Smuggling of firearms into Mexico - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> So if you exclude the gun deaths we have low gun deaths
> 
> 
> Dude....that is priceless!!!!!!!!




Moron.........

The gun murders in the U.S. are concentrated in tiny, multi-block areas of our democrat party controlled cities.......the rest of the country is as good or better than Europe...without the mass murder of civillians


Of the gun murder in the U.S.....70-80 sometimes 90% of the victims are not regular citizens...they are criminals murdered by other criminals engaged in criminal activity.....

The rest of the victims?   The majority of those victims are the friends, family and associates of the criminals, accidentally hit in the cross fire.........

So yes....the U.S., the non democrat party controlled areas, have incredibly low gun murder rates....

And before you ask....

As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas. These charts exclude suicides, for which data are not available on a congressional district basis, so it only breaks down the fraction of gun violence that is accidental or confrontational.
--------

*A distinct pattern emerged: In Democratic regions of the country, which tend to be cities, people are more likely to be murdered with a gun than they are to shoot themselves to death.*

In regions of the country won by Republicans, which tend to be rural areas and small towns, the opposite is true — people are more likely to shoot themselves to death than they are to be murdered with a gun.
----
In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...prising-way-gun-violence-is-dividing-america/


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I posted from Stratfor, you posted wikipedia......really?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> I posted from Stratfor, you posted wikipedia......really?


Yes really.  All the references are at the bottom.

You didnt know that?


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

JackOfNoTrades said:


> 20 fatal shootings in four months? LOL.
> 
> Get back to me when they get within sniffing distance of our tally.
> You do the math...jeez.
> ...





Swedene





JackOfNoTrades said:


> The reason their murder rates are so low is because they don't have the ready access to guns and ammunition that we have.
> End of story.





No, it's because they are monoculture.  The violence is coming from the violent third worlders they are importing.


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Yes really.  All the references are at the bottom.
> 
> You didnt know that?




Again, wikipedia is not a definitive source......

Stratfor is......


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

JackOfNoTrades said:


> 20 fatal shootings in four months? LOL.
> 
> Get back to me when they get within sniffing distance of our tally.
> You do the math...jeez.
> ...





Swedens population is a little over 10 million.  New York city has population a little over 8 million.

Compare the two.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Again, wikipedia is not a definitive source......
> 
> Stratfor is......


Opinion noted and dismissed


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




From your own link....wikipedia.....

*It has been reported that there have been 150,000 desertions from the Mexican army during 2003 to 2009. Stated another way, about one-eighth of the Mexican army deserts annually.[20] Many of these deserters take their government-issued automatic rifles with them while leaving. Some of those weapons originate from the USA.[21] It has been determined that at least some of the M203 grenade launchers and M16A2 assault rifles cited above are of counterfeit origin manufactured for the cartels, possibly to resemble the weapons carried by the Mexican Special Forces.**[22]*


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Opinion noted and dismissed




You anti-gun fanatics.....you are obsessed with guns, to the point you refuse to understand the actual issues involved.....you refuse to understand the truth, facts and reality, but instead can't see past the "gun."   Criminals are released over and over again by the democrat party, and you say "gun."

You are a large part of our problem in dealing with criminals in this country.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> From your own link....wikipedia.....
> 
> *It has been reported that there have been 150,000 desertions from the Mexican army during 2003 to 2009. Stated another way, about one-eighth of the Mexican army deserts annually.[20] Many of these deserters take their government-issued automatic rifles with them while leaving. Some of those weapons originate from the USA.[21] It has been determined that at least some of the M203 grenade launchers and M16A2 assault rifles cited above are of counterfeit origin manufactured for the cartels, possibly to resemble the weapons carried by the Mexican Special Forces.**[22]*


Yes they do get some guns from the military


Your claim was MOST


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Yes they do get some guns from the military
> 
> 
> Your claim was MOST




And it is most..........the Mexican government gets guns from the U.S. government, and they get diverted to the cartels...especially the military weapons.....


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> You anti-gun fanatics.....you are obsessed with guns, to the point you refuse to understand the actual issues involved.....you refuse to understand the truth, facts and reality, but instead can't see past the "gun."   Criminals are released over and over again by the democrat party, and you say "gun."
> 
> You are a large part of our problem in dealing with criminals in this country.


Anti gun fanatic?  I am looking at my gun safe right now.  Going to the range again next week


Nobody in my battalion called me a anti gun fanatic.  Lol


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And it is most..........the Mexican government gets guns from the U.S. government, and they get diverted to the cartels...especially the military weapons.....


And mostly by smuggling guns from the US and central America


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> And mostly by smuggling guns from the US and central America




No.....again, they are getting their real guns, the military weapons they use, from the Mexican government, and the Guatemalan government...........as well as the Chinese and Europeans.....


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No.....again, they are getting their real guns, the military weapons they use, from the Mexican government, and the Guatemalan government...........as well as the Chinese and Europeans.....


And by smuggling from the US as I have shown


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> And mostly by smuggling guns from the US and central America





They get few from the US.  The majority come from south America.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> They get few from the US.  The majority come from south America.


It is true they get a lot from south America too


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> It is true they get a lot from south America too




Not a lot.  The majority.  You can buy a fully automatic AK or M16 for under 300 bucks.

So the claim these assholes come to the US to spend more money, for a less capable weapon is asinine.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Bot a lot.  The majority.  You can buy a fully automatic AK or M16 for under 300 bucks.
> 
> So the claim these assholes come to the US to spend more money, for a less capable weapon is asinine.


Well I did post the evidence.   Certainly easier to buy shotguns and handguns 


The point is guns are readily available in mexico....you just have to buy off the cops


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Well I did post the evidence.   Certainly easier to buy shotguns and handguns
> 
> 
> The point is guns are readily available in mexico....you just have to buy off the cops




So...you admit their gun control laws don't work.....


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Well I did post the evidence.   Certainly easier to buy shotguns and handguns
> 
> 
> The point is guns are readily available in mexico....you just have to buy off the cops





Yes, with incredibly strict gun control laws the bad guys have ZERO problem getting whatever they want.

You aren't helping your cause.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> So...you admit their gun control laws don't work.....


Actually none of their laws work because you can buy off the cops


You need rule of law for effective gun control


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Yes, with incredibly strict gun control laws the bad guys have ZERO problem getting whatever they want.
> 
> You aren't helping your cause.


Because it's only on paper.  Hows that working in japan?


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Actually none of their laws work because you can buy off the cops
> 
> 
> You need rule of law for effective gun control





Sweden has laws.  They enforce them.  But the gangs don't seem to have a problem getting whatever they want.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Sweden has laws.  They enforce them.  But the gangs don't seem to have a problem getting whatever they want.


They had 42 gun deaths in 2020.


We call that Tuesday


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Because it's only on paper.  Hows that working in japan?





Japan has the strictest laws on the books and the police admit there are more illegal guns in Japan than there are criminals to carry them.


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> They had 42 gun deaths in 2020.
> 
> 
> We call that Tuesday





Yes, look who is being killed.  Violent third world immigrants.  Notice a pattern?  Violent third world people shoot each other no matter where they are.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Japan has the strictest laws on the books and the police admit there are more illegal guns in Japan than there are criminals to carry them.


Japan has 11 gun deaths a year

We have 35,000


They could field a football team....we can fill the stadium


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Yes, look who is being killed.  Violent third world immigrants.  Notice a pattern?  Violent third world people shoot each other no matter where they are.


42.  You better believe I notice a pattern


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Japan has 11 gun deaths a year
> 
> We have 35,000
> 
> ...





Yes, their criminals favor swords and knives.  It's a cultural thing.  Yet they have more guns than they need.  

Gun control laws don't work. 

They never have.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Yes, their criminals favor swords and knives.  It's a cultural thing.  Yet they have more guns than they need.
> 
> Gun control laws don't work.
> 
> They never have.


Yeah it couldn't possibly be the gun control laws 


HAHAHAHAHA 


HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> 42.  You better believe I notice a pattern





What was the total BEFORE the violent third worlders?

Here's a hint, it was under 10.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> What was the total BEFORE the violent third worlders?
> 
> Here's a hint, it was under 10.


Any year we get 42 gun deaths in America you let me know.   Lol


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Yeah it couldn't possibly be the gun control laws
> 
> 
> HAHAHAHAHA
> ...





No, it isn't.   The Yakuza consider themselves the spiritual heirs of the Samurai.  It is considered unmanly to use a gun.  They take great pride in their knife fighting skills.

You don't understand cultural influences do you.

You are quite limited in your knowledge base.


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Any year we get 42 gun deaths in America you let me know.   Lol





Take the top ten Democrat controlled cities out of the equation and the rest of the USA drops BELOW that number.

So, what is wrong with those Democrat controlled cities?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> No, it isn't.   The Yakuza consider themselves the spiritual heirs of the Samurai.  It is considered unmanly to use a gun.  They take great pride in their knife fighting skills.
> 
> You don't understand cultural influences do you.
> 
> You are quite limited in your knowledge base.


Can you name a country with gun laws you admire that has low gun deaths?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Take the top ten Democrat controlled cities out of the equation and the rest of the USA drops BELOW that number.
> 
> So, what is wrong with those Democrat controlled cities?


I LOVE this


If you remove most of the gun deaths we have very few gun deaths


HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Can you name a country with gun laws you admire that has low gun deaths?





No, because they don't exist.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> No, because they don't exist.


Hmmmm.

But I can name a lot if countries with gun control that have low gun deaths


See a pattern?  Lol


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> I LOVE this
> 
> 
> If you remove most of the gun deaths we have very few gun deaths
> ...





The vast majority of murders and suicides happen in 10 cities.  This is a fact.  What us wrong with those 10 cities?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> The vast majority of murders and suicides happen in 10 cities.  This is a fact.  What us wrong with those 10 cities?


Lots of people live there.


By the way that is true for every country on the planet.   Lol


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Hmmmm.
> 
> But I can name a lot if countries with gun control that have low gun deaths
> 
> ...




Correlation doesn't equal causation.  That is a scientific principle.  You should learn it.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Correlation doesn't equal causation.  That is a scientific principle.  You should learn it.


Know it well.  Yet it remains true despite the variables


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Lots of people live there.
> 
> 
> By the way that is true for every country on the planet.   Lol





No, it isn't.  There are many cities with large populations that have low crime rates.

What is it about those 10 cities that makes crime so bad there?


----------



## Failzero (Apr 17, 2022)

A bitch will get Raped in Sweden


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> No, it isn't.  There are many cities with large populations that have low crime rates.
> 
> What is it about those 10 cities that makes crime so bad there?


But in every country on earth most crime takes place in large cities


Deny that


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Apr 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Gang shootings in Sweden....yes.....Sweden, home of the Swedish Bikini Team.....are seeing an increase in gang shootings.......largely due to immigrant gangs.....
> 
> But...we here in the U.S. are told, constantly, that Europe controls guns.......
> 
> ...


This fails as a confirmation bias fallacy.


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Know it well.  Yet it remains true despite the variables





No, you didn't understand the Yakuza culture and why they don't use guns to commit crimes.  You claimed it was because of gun control when it PROVABLY isn't. 

So it appears there is much you don't understand.


----------



## Failzero (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> No, you didn't understand the Yakuza culture and why they don't use guns to commit crimes.  You claimed it was because of gun control when it PROVABLY isn't.
> 
> So it appears there is much you don't understand.


They have & use Guns


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> But in every country on earth most crime takes place in large cities
> 
> 
> Deny that





There is nothing to deny.  It is a fact.  So why then are the most violent cities in the  USA so violent?

What sets them apart?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> No, you didn't understand the Yakuza culture and why they don't use guns to commit crimes.  You claimed it was because of gun control when it PROVABLY isn't.
> 
> So it appears there is much you don't understand.


That culture does not exist in all the other countries with low gun deaths.  They all have effective gun control.  


Face it


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Failzero said:


> They have & use Guns




Very rarely.  They use them when other gangs force them to.  They choose not to.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> There is nothing to deny.  It is a fact.  So why then are the most violent cities in the  USA so violent?
> 
> What sets them apart?


For the EXACT SAME REASON that the most violent cities in any country are violent


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> This fails as a confirmation bias fallacy.




Take your bullshit WRONG fallacy nonsense, and shove it up your ass.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Take your bullshit WRONG fallacy nonsense, and shove it up your ass.


Now you're getting upset


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> That culture does not exist in all the other countries with low gun deaths.  They all have effective gun control.
> 
> 
> Face it





No, what YOU are ignoring is that those other countries and cultures NEVER were violent in the first place.  Their gun control laws didn't matter.

Sweden NEVER had a gun crime problem till violent third worlders immigrated, and brought their gun crime with them.

The laws have NOT controlled that crime because violent criminals ignore laws.


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Now you're getting upset




No, I  am not upset.  He's just a pseudo intellectual fraud.


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> For the EXACT SAME REASON that the most violent cities in any country are violent





Really?  How so.  Be specific.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Apr 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> I didn't say that, you moron.....read my post, slowly, or have someone read it to you.....
> 
> There is one gun store in Mexico....it is on an army base with extremely limited access for Mexican Citizens......only the politically connected and wealthy have access to it....
> 
> ...


Wrong.

Firearm regulatory measures have never been presented as a ‘panacea’ for all gun crime and violence.

Ridiculous sophistry such as firearm regulatory measures don’t work because criminals still have access to guns is as idiotic as claiming that homicide statues don’t work because people continue to commit murder.


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Wrong.
> 
> Firearm regulatory measures have never been presented as a ‘panacea’ for all gun crime and violence.
> 
> Ridiculous sophistry such as firearm regulatory measures don’t work because criminals still have access to guns is as idiotic as claiming that homicide statues don’t work because people continue to commit murder.




Liar.  According to every bleating politician the solution to every crime problem is gun control.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Really?  How so.  Be specific.


Violent crime tends to happen where large numbers of potential victims exist and it is easier to hide from the cops.  Also gangs primarily only exist in the cities

Happy to help


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> No, what YOU are ignoring is that those other countries and cultures NEVER were violent in the first place.  Their gun control laws didn't matter.
> 
> Sweden NEVER had a gun crime problem till violent third worlders immigrated, and brought their gun crime with them.
> 
> The laws have NOT controlled that crime because violent criminals ignore laws.


They dont have a gun control problem now compared to any large city in the US


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Violent crime tends to happen where large numbers of potential victims exist and it is easier to hide from the cops.  Also gangs primarily only exist in the cities
> 
> Happy to help




That is nicely vague.  I asked you for specific reasons 

Try again.


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Japan has 11 gun deaths a year
> 
> We have 35,000
> 
> ...




And, of course, you throw in suicides........you moron.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And, of course, you throw in suicides........you moron.


Take them out and compare US to japan....while I laugh at you


HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> They dont have a gun control problem now compared to any large city in the US




Sure they do.  Sweden's gun crime rate is skyrocketing.  As is the gun crime rate in EVERY European country that brought in Syrian and other Middle Eastern "refugees".  Most of whom were young men.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> That is nicely vague.  I asked you for specific reasons
> 
> Try again.


I was quite clear.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Sure they do.  Sweden's gun crime rate is skyrocketing.  As is the gun crime rate in EVERY European country that brought in Syrian and other Middle Eastern "refugees".  Most of whom were young men.


So which city in America have they surpassed in gun deaths?


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Apr 17, 2022)

theHawk said:


> Yea, they don’t have tens of millions of ghetto blacks or Latinos.


Blacks and Latinos are far preferable to racist white conservatives.


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Take them out and compare US to japan....while I laugh at you
> 
> 
> HAHAHAHAHA





Yes.  Japan has MORE suicides than the USA!  No guns but MORE suicides.  According to you that isn't possible. 

Like I said, you are a one dimensional thinker.


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> So which city in America have they surpassed in gun deaths?




None yet.  Give them time.  They have already surpassed the USA in hand grenade murders.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Swedene
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's because they are monoculture.  The violence is coming from the violent third worlders they are importing.


More hate from the racist right.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> None yet.  Give them time.  They have already surpassed the USA in hand grenade murders.


Well clearly we need to loosen hand grenade laws.  Lol


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Blacks and Latinos are far preferable to racist white conservatives.





Tell that to the thousands of blacks murdered by their fellow black people you fucking clod.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Yes.  Japan has MORE suicides than the USA!  No guns but MORE suicides.  According to you that isn't possible.
> 
> Like I said, you are a one dimensional thinker.


You seem upset now


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> You seem upset now





I do, why?  I am merely reciting facts.  You trot out a one dimensional thought, and I  smack it down.

I am actually having fun.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> I do, why?  I am merely reciting facts.  You trot out a one dimensional thought, and I  smack it down.
> 
> I am actually having fun.


I'm not making this personal.  I dont need to


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> I'm not making this personal.  I dont need to




Nor am I.   Nor do I.  I merely state facts.  You present your argument and I respond.  When I state that your arguments are one dimensional it's because they ARE one dimensional.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Nor am I.   Nor do I.  I merely state facts.  You present your argument and I respond.  When I state that your arguments are one dimensional it's because they ARE one dimensional.


Your opinion is noted and dismissed


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Your opinion is noted and dismissed




So, like an infant you take your ball and go home?
Looks like it is YOU who are upset.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> So, like an infant you take your ball and go home?
> Looks like it is YOU who are upset.


I havent gone anywhere.   I dismissed your opinion


Now you add insult to the debate


The sign of a failing argument


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> I havent gone anywhere.   I dismissed your opinion
> 
> 
> Now you add insult to the debate
> ...





You are the one who took your ball and went home.  Not me.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> You are the one who took your ball and went home.  Not me.


And yet I am right here


Want to call me an infant again?  Lol


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> And yet I am right here
> 
> 
> Want to call me an infant again?  Lol





If you take your ball and go home instead of playing,  and LOSING, then yes, that is pretty infantile.

Now, if you want to discuss the issues in a forthright manner, I am all for that.  But remember,  facts are NOT opinion.

You need to learn that difference.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> If you take your ball and go home instead of playing,  and LOSING, then yes, that is pretty infantile.
> 
> Now, if you want to discuss the issues in a forthright manner, I am all for that.  But remember,  facts are NOT opinion.
> 
> You need to learn that difference.





westwall said:


> If you take your ball and go home instead of playing,  and LOSING, then yes, that is pretty infantile.
> 
> Now, if you want to discuss the issues in a forthright manner, I am all for that.  But remember,  facts are NOT opinion.
> 
> You need to learn that difference.


When did I leave? 

YOU GAVE THE GIRST INSULT....NOT ME.

And that is a fact


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> When did I leave?
> 
> YOU GAVE THE GIRST INSULT....NOT ME.
> 
> And that is a fact





Ummm, you said "your opinion is noted, and dismissed ".  That's an insult.  Or do you not understand English?

So.  YOU started the insults, and when called on it you disemble.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Ummm, you said "your opinion is noted, and dismissed ".  That's an insult.  Or do you not understand English?
> 
> So.  YOU started the insults, and when called on it you disemble.


No you said my thinking was one dimensional which is opinion not fact and is a insult


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> No you said my thinking was one dimensional which is opinion not fact and is a insult





Show me where your thinking isn't one dimensional.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Show me where your thinking isn't one dimensional.


Show me yours isnt.


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Show me yours isnt.





I already have.  There are many causes for violence.   You claim there is only one way to combat it, I say there are MANY tools that must be used.  And they need to be used carefully, and in a specific way to be successful.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> I already have.  There are many causes for violence.   You claim there is only one way to combat it, I say there are MANY tools that must be used.  And they need to be used carefully, and in a specific way to be successful.


I never claimed there was only ONE way to combat it.  We are talking about gun control but certainly that is not the ONLY way to combat it.  There ARE many tools that can be used.  Your claim that gun control CANT be one if those ways is one dimensional thinking.  It can be one of the many dimensions used to fight crime


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> I never claimed there was only ONE way to combat it.  We are talking about gun control but certainly that is not the ONLY way to combat it.  There ARE many tools that can be used.  Your claim that gun control CANT be one if those ways is one dimensional thinking.  It can be one of the many dimensions used to fight crime






Gun control has PROVABLY never worked.   Paris France, and the murder of 130 is proof.  So are the 70 murdered in Norway.

Both nations have strict gun control laws yet those laws made it EASIER for the bad people to kill.  Secure in the knowledge that no one could interfere with their crimes.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Gun control has PROVABLY never worked.   Paris France, and the murder of 130 is proof.  So are the 70 murdered in Norway.
> 
> Both nations have strict gun control laws yet those laws made it EASIER for the bad people to kill.  Secure in the knowledge that no one could interfere with their crimes.


God I wish just one year we could have the gun death rate of Paris or Norway 


Just one year


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> God I wish just one year we could have the gun death rate of Paris or Norway
> 
> 
> Just one year





Norway has a population of 5 million. You think comparing a country with a population of 5 million is proper when it is less than a third of what the US illegal population is?

Really?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Norway has a population of 5 million. You think comparing a country with a population of 5 million is proper when it is less than a third of what the US illegal population is?
> 
> Really?


Pick a city in America with 5 million.


Anyone you like

And note....I said gun death rate


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Pick a city in America with 5 million.
> 
> 
> Anyone you like
> ...






Soooooo, you have already acknowledged that the majority of gun crimes occur in cities, so you want to compare a city, vs an entire country.

Do you understand the problem here?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Soooooo, you have already acknowledged that the majority of gun crimes occur in cities, so you want to compare a city, vs an entire country.
> 
> Do you understand the problem here?


No I dont.  Norway is full of cities.  Compare anything you like.  Pick a city there and compate it to a comparable city in America. 

Do this any way you want....it always cone out we have higher gun death rate


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Oslo has a population of 630,000.  That's their biggest city.  The entire country is as big as California,  yet you think comparing violent cities to a wide open country is a reasonable exercise. 

Really?

And yes, we have a higher gun death rate.  We have an illegal third worldpopulation that is 4 times the size of Norway.

Do you think that might have a bearing?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Oslo has a population of 630,000.  That's their biggest city.  The entire country is as big as California,  yet you think comparing violent cities to a wide open country is a reasonable exercise.
> 
> Really?


You brought up norway.....not me.


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> You brought up norway.....not me.





Yes, and you ignore that our ILLEGAL population, you know, the population that commits 80% of the violent crime here, is 4 times the size of the entire country of Norway.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Yes, and you ignore that our ILLEGAL population, you know, the population that commits 80% of the violent crime here, is 4 times the size of the entire country of Norway.


That's nice.


Are we comparing to norway now?  Lol


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> That's nice.
> 
> 
> Are we comparing to norway now?  Lol





Sure.  Present another nation that has 20 MILLION illegal aliens from violent 3rd world countries.

Go!


----------



## theHawk (Apr 17, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Blacks and Latinos are far preferable to racist white conservatives.


Yea sure.  I’m sure you live in a minority ghetto.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Sure.  Present another nation that has 20 MILLION illegal aliens from violent 3rd world countries.
> 
> Go!


Present another nation that has the nfl.


Go


HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Apr 17, 2022)

JackOfNoTrades said:


> Do we have multiple armed drug cartels operating out in the open in this country?..If your answer is no, then this analogy isn't valid.


Irrelevant.  The gun ownership rate in Mexico is 10x lower than The United States.

Mexico literally has ONE gun store.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Apr 17, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Blacks and Latinos are far preferable to racist white conservatives.


But the whites that live in your gated community leave you alone.


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Irrelevant.  The gun ownership rate in Mexico is 10x lower than The United States.
> 
> Mexico literally has ONE gun store.





Yup.  I've been to it.   Only the rich and famous go there.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Yup.  I've been to it.   Only the rich and famous go there.


Very easy to get a gun in Mexico 


Just join a cartel


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Very easy to get a gun in Mexico
> 
> 
> Just join a cartel





Or be a common criminal.  Interesting, the peasants are prohibited ited guns, but the rich, and the criminals have no problems getting them.

Almost makes one think that gun ownership is a class thing.

What was that about class warfare?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Or be a common criminal.  Interesting, the peasants are prohibited ited guns, but the rich, and the criminals have no problems getting them.
> 
> Almost makes one think that gun ownership is a class thing.
> 
> What was that about class warfare?


I know.  It's crazy in Mexico.   So corrupt


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> I know.  It's crazy in Mexico.   So corrupt




Kinda works that way worldwide.  The rich, and the criminal element have no problem getting weapons.  The peons though, they just get screwed


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Kinda works that way worldwide.  The rich, and the criminal element have no problem getting weapons.  The peons though, they just get screwed


That's nice.

Yet gun control works


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> That's nice.
> 
> Yet gun control works


Criminal control works better.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Criminal control works better.


No it doesnt


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> That's nice.
> 
> Yet gun control works





Provably it doesn't.   130 dead Parisiennes are proof of that.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Provably it doesn't.   130 dead Parisiennes are proof of that.


God just one year o wish we had their gun death rate


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> God just one year o wish we had their gun death rate





Why?  On a per capita basis there's is worse than ours.

If you look at Europe as a whole, and look at the individual countries as States, the population is the same, but they are more violent than we are, and they have a higher suicide, and homicide rate.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Why?  On a per capita basis there's is worse than ours.
> 
> If you look at Europe as a whole, and look at the individual countries as States, the population is the same, but they are more violent than we are, and they have a higher suicide, and homicide rate.


Ok prove it


----------



## fncceo (Apr 17, 2022)

rightwinger said:


> I will take Swedens murder rate by guns over ours any day



As long as I don't have to eat their food ...

I'd rather be shot.


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Ok prove it





Just look at the Nation data.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

westwall said:


> Just look at the Nation data.


I accept you have no evidence


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> I accept you have no evidence
> [Clinton.
> 
> 
> I accept you have  no ability to do basic research.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

I accept you dont know how to post.  Lol


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> No it doesnt


Obviously it does, since the crime spikes in big cities started when the city governments stopped trying to control criminals.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Obviously it does, since the crime spikes in big cities started when the city governments stopped trying to control criminals.


Prove it


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Prove it


Gun ownership was in the picture lol ng before this started happening...









						'It's just crazy': 12 major cities hit all-time homicide records
					

At least 12 major U.S. cities have broken annual homicide records in 2021 -- and there's still three weeks to go in the year.




					abcnews.go.com


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Prove it




Prove what?  That you can't think?


----------



## San Souci (Apr 18, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Gang shootings in Sweden....yes.....Sweden, home of the Swedish Bikini Team.....are seeing an increase in gang shootings.......largely due to immigrant gangs.....
> 
> But...we here in the U.S. are told, constantly, that Europe controls guns.......
> 
> ...


sweden doesn't have black gangsters and illegals flooding their country.


----------



## Turtlesoup (Apr 18, 2022)

JackOfNoTrades said:


> 20 fatal shootings in four months? LOL.
> 
> Get back to me when they get within sniffing distance of our tally.
> You do the math...jeez.
> ...


I'm sorry---but are you not aware how tiny sweden is to us?  REALLY JACK....


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 18, 2022)

westwall said:


> Prove what?  That you can't think?


I accept your concession


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 18, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Gun ownership was in the picture lol ng before this started happening...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They have not stopped trying to control.criminals


----------



## westwall (Apr 18, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> I accept your concession





I accepted yours first.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 18, 2022)

westwall said:


> I accepted your first.


You'll get em next time


----------



## westwall (Apr 18, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> They have not stopped trying to control.criminals





Yes, but they should.  Far easier to control bad people than guns.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 18, 2022)

westwall said:


> Yes, but they should.  Far easier to control bad people than guns.


Which state or country has used this program successfully to get low gun deaths with lax gun laws?


Watch this folks


----------



## westwall (Apr 18, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Which state or country has used this program successfully to get low gun deaths with lax gun laws?
> 
> 
> Watch this folks





The US for one.  We have more guns now, and crime is going down overall, with more guns in circulation.

Three strikes laws were passed to take bad people off the street and wouldn't you know it, those are the first charges that are dropped in plea deals.

However, in California,  as an example, when those laws were used the murder rates went down significantly. 

They only jumped back when those violent offenders were released.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 18, 2022)

westwall said:


> The US for one.  We have more guns now, and crime is going down overall, with more guns in circulation.
> 
> Three strikes laws were passed to take bad people off the street and wouldn't you know it, those are the first charges that are dropped in plea deals.
> 
> ...


There it is folks 


The flat out lie



He thinks the US has low gun deaths when we have among the highest in the world 



HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## westwall (Apr 18, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> There it is folks
> 
> 
> The flat out lie
> ...






And yet the data has been presented here.

You choose to ignore it.

That's on you.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 18, 2022)

westwall said:


> And yet the data has been presented here.
> 
> You choose to ignore it.
> 
> That's on you.


No it hasnt


Another flat out lie


Show me data that ranks the US among low gun death countries 


Watch this folks


----------



## JackOfNoTrades (Apr 18, 2022)

Turtlesoup said:


> I'm sorry---but are you not aware how tiny sweden is to us?  REALLY JACK....


I'm aware that other countries don't have nearly the level of gun violence and deaths we do. That is because of a proliferation of weapons and a lack of control. Fairly straightforward.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 18, 2022)

JackOfNoTrades said:


> I'm aware that other countries don't have nearly the level of gun violence and deaths we do. That is because of a proliferation of weapons and a lack of control.


Can you demonstrate the necessary relationship between the strong gun contril laws of these countries and their lower rates of gun-related violence?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 18, 2022)

JackOfNoTrades said:


> I'm aware that other countries don't have nearly the level of gun violence and deaths we do. That is because of a proliferation of weapons and a lack of control. Fairly straightforward.


They can not in fact name a country with lax gun control and low crime


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> So if you exclude the gun deaths we have low gun deaths
> 
> 
> Dude....that is priceless!!!!!!!!


Gun violence and gun accidents are a cost of freedom and liberty.  

But if we exclude gun deaths by blacks, we do have low gun deaths.  Should we be banning blacks?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Gun violence and gun accidents are a cost of freedom and liberty.
> 
> But if we exclude gun deaths by blacks, we do have low gun deaths.  Should we be banning blacks?


If you take out the gun deaths we have low gun deaths



Priceless


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> If you take out the gun deaths we have low gun deaths
> 
> 
> 
> Priceless


Not exactly.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Not exactly.
> 
> View attachment 633975


Just take out the gun deaths and you will have low gun deaths


HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Just take out the gun deaths and you will have low gun deaths
> 
> 
> HAHAHAHAHA


Again...


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Again...
> 
> View attachment 633976


Again just remove the gun deaths


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Again just remove the gun deaths


Again...


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Again...
> 
> View attachment 633977


This is spam


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> This is spam


Actually it is from the FBI's Crime and Punishment.  I think they call it statistics.  And by your logic we should be banning black people.  You are such a racist.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Actually it is from the FBI's Crime and Punishment.  I think they call it statistics.  And by your logic we should be banning black people.  You are such a racist.


When did I ever say we should ban anything. 


You are lying


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> When did I ever say we should ban anything.
> 
> 
> You are lying


Calm down. Ma'am.  Banning and confiscating firearms is the logical conclusion of the emotional response to gun violence and gun accidents.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Calm down. Ma'am.  Banning and confiscating firearms is the logical conclusion of the emotional response to gun violence and gun accidents.


Why do you want to kill all black people?


Logical conclusion.   Lol


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Why do you want to kill all black people?
> 
> 
> Logical conclusion.   Lol


I don't want to kill anyone.  Why would I?  I'm just pointing out how illogical your emotional argument is.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> I don't want to kill anyone.  Why would I?  I'm just pointing out how illogical your emotional argument is.


It's your logical conclusion.   Lol


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> It's your logical conclusion.   Lol


How so?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> How so?


Follow the logic.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Follow the logic.


I didn't think you could back up your claim.  I'm not the one whose panties are in a wad over firearms.  Yours are.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> I didn't think you could back up your claim.  I'm not the one whose panties are in a wad over firearms.  Yours are.


You wear panties?


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> You wear panties?


You're upset.  It's understandable.  Guns make you angry.  I get it.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> You're upset.  It's understandable.  Guns make you angry.  I get it.


They do?  Even the ones I own?  


HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> They do?  Even the ones I own?
> 
> 
> HAHAHAHAHA


Why else would you be crying about gun violence and gun accidents?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Why else would you be crying about gun violence and gun accidents?


You know so little but assume so much....and always get it wrong.  Lol


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> You know so little but assume so much....and always get it wrong.  Lol


Says the guy complaining about too many gun deaths in America.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Says the guy complaining about too many gun deaths in America.


I see.  You would prefer MORE gun deaths in America.   Lol


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> I see.  You would prefer MORE gun deaths in America.   Lol


Don't be silly.  That's why we have laws against it.  Would you prefer that the vast overwhelming majority of peaceable law abiding citizens have their guns confiscated because some broke laws?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Don't be silly.  That's why we have laws against it.  Would you prefer that the vast overwhelming majority of peaceable law abiding citizens have their guns confiscated because some broke laws?


Why would I want my own guns confiscated?


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Why would I want my own guns confiscated?


Don't know.  I assumed it's because you are overly emotional.  Why are you complaining about gun deaths?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Don't know.  I assumed it's because you are overly emotional.  Why are you complaining about gun deaths?


You assume a lot....and get it all wrong


----------



## Care4all (Apr 21, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Gang shootings in Sweden....yes.....Sweden, home of the Swedish Bikini Team.....are seeing an increase in gang shootings.......largely due to immigrant gangs.....
> 
> But...we here in the U.S. are told, constantly, that Europe controls guns.......
> 
> ...


What are Sweden's gun control laws?


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> You assume a lot....and get it all wrong


You were complaining about gun violence.  What would you like to do about it?  Make a law that says we are doubly serious about not committing murder?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> You were complaining about gun violence.  What would you like to do about it?  Make a law that says we are doubly serious about not committing murder?


Yes.  That is a great plan.


HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Yes.  That is a great plan.
> 
> 
> HAHAHAHAHA


I agree it's as stupid as wanting to ban and confiscate all firearms.  It's a really good thing you don't want to do that as that would make you an emotional twat.  

But the black community really does need to do something about all of the violence in their community or cops who work for Democrat mayors will keep putting their boots on their necks.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> I agree it's as stupid as wanting to ban and confiscate all firearms.  It's a really good thing you don't want to do that as that would make you an emotional twat.
> 
> But the black community really does need to do something about all of the violence in their community or cops who work for Democrat mayors will keep putting their boots on their necks.


Or we could try more gun control


HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Or we could try more gun control
> 
> 
> HAHAHAHAHA


Exactly!  Thanks for proving my point.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Exactly!  Thanks for proving my point.


You're super welcome!!!!!!


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> You're super welcome!!!!!!


I know. I always look forward to beating down people who want to punish peaceable law abiding citizens by placing more gun control restrictions on them because of what other people did.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> I know. I always look forward to beating down people who want to punish peaceable law abiding citizens by placing more gun control restrictions on them because of what other people did.


How nice for you


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> How nice for you


It is nice for me.  

The Right to Bear Arms (i.e. the 2nd Amendment) was seen by our Founding Fathers as the last check against tyranny. They knew that the best line of defense against a standing army was an armed populace.

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."​​- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28​
"If circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist."​​- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28​
The people who wish to preserve liberty and are capable of bearing arms are the militia.

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."​​- Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788​
The Founding Fathers believed that peaceable law abiding citizens should never have their right to bear arms be infringed upon.

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, WHO ARE PEACEABLE CITIZENS, from keeping their own arms; …"​​Samuel Adams quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"​
The fundamental purpose of the militia is to serve as a check upon a standing army, the words “well regulated” referred to the necessity that the armed citizens making up the militia have the level of equipment and training necessary to be an effective and formidable check upon the national government’s standing army.

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788​​"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." - Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787​​"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country." - James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789​​“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." - Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788​
Well regulated does not mean regulations. When the Constitution specifies regulations it specifically states who and what is being regulated. The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. The fundamental purpose of the militia was to serve as a check upon a standing army, the words “well regulated” referred to the necessity that the armed citizens making up the militia have the necessary equipment and training necessary to be an effective and formidable check upon the national government’s standing army. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> It is nice for me.
> 
> The Right to Bear Arms (i.e. the 2nd Amendment) was seen by our Founding Fathers as the last check against tyranny. They knew that the best line of defense against a standing army was an armed populace.
> 
> ...











						Homicide
					

1. Where there are more guns there is more homicide (literature review) Our review of the academic literature found that a broad array of evidence indicates that gun availability is a risk factor f…




					www.hsph.harvard.edu


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Homicide
> 
> 
> 1. Where there are more guns there is more homicide (literature review) Our review of the academic literature found that a broad array of evidence indicates that gun availability is a risk factor f…
> ...


As I said like a dozen times already... gun violence and gun accidents are the cost of freedom and liberty.  Freedom isn't free.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> As I said like a dozen times already... gun violence and gun accidents are the cost of freedom and liberty.  Freedom isn't free.


Can we hear the speech from braveheart now?  Lol


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Can we hear the speech from braveheart now?  Lol


No need.  I just showed you all the speeches that the Framers made to their constituents when they were selling the constitution to them for their ratification.  It's like you don't even understand history at all.

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair." - Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

"If circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist." - Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28


“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." - Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788


"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, WHO ARE PEACEABLE CITIZENS, from keeping their own arms; …" Samuel Adams quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." - Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country." - James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." - Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> No need.  I just showed you all the speeches that the Framers made to their constituents when they were selling the constitution to them for their ratification.  It's like you don't even understand history at all.
> 
> "If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair." - Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28
> 
> ...


So you believe we should not have ANY gun control.....right?


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> So you believe we should not have ANY gun control.....right?


I believe that we should be allowed to own, posses and train with the technology of the day that any light infantry ought to use.  Today that means semi-automatic pistols, rifles and shotguns with high capacity magazines.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> I believe that we should be allowed to own, posses and train with the technology of the day that any light infantry ought to use.  Today that means semi-automatic pistols, rifles and shotguns with high capacity magazines.


So you are a gun banner


Shall not be infringed!!!!!!


Murica


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> So you are a gun banner
> 
> 
> Shall not be infringed!!!!!!
> ...


Incorrect.

I believe that we should be allowed to own, posses and train with the technology of the day that any light infantry ought to use. Today that means semi-automatic pistols, rifles and shotguns with high capacity magazines.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Incorrect.
> 
> I believe that we should be allowed to own, posses and train with the technology of the day that any light infantry ought to use. Today that means semi-automatic pistols, rifles and shotguns with high capacity magazines.


You gun banners are all alike 


It says arms shall not be infringed...not just light infantry arms


Murica


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> You gun banners are all alike
> 
> 
> It says arms shall not be infringed...not just light infantry arms
> ...


According to the 2nd Amendment  we have the right to own, posses and train with the technology of the day that any light infantry ought to use. Today that means semi-automatic pistols, rifles and shotguns with high capacity magazines.  Better?


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 21, 2022)

Care4all said:


> What are Sweden's gun control laws?




You mean besides having fully automatic military rifles in a large number of their homes?

You have to get past that before you talk about anything else..........


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> According to the 2nd Amendment  we have the right to own, posses and train with the technology of the day that any light infantry ought to use. Today that means semi-automatic pistols, rifles and shotguns with high capacity magazines.  Better?




They aren't "high capacity," they are normal magazines.......


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> So you believe we should not have ANY gun control.....right?




We have gun control....felons and the dangerously mentally ill can't have guns.......and if you use a gun for a crime, you are arrested....

We have all the gun control we need to stop gun crime...the problem is that once the cops arrest a criminal, the democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians release them.......often the most violent gun offenders with multiple felonies for gun crimes.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

2aguy said:


> They aren't "high capacity," they are normal magazines.......


I don't see a problem with calling them high capacity magazines.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

2aguy said:


> You mean besides having fully automatic military rifles in a large number of their homes?
> 
> You have to get past that before you talk about anything else..........


Is that Sweden?  Or Switzerland?


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> I don't see a problem with calling them high capacity magazines.



Well.....it is a lie....they are not high capacity......the anti-gun fanatics use those words to scare uninformed people.....using them anywhere just helps them with their agenda....


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Well.....it is a lie....they are not high capacity......the anti-gun fanatics use those words to scare uninformed people.....using them anywhere just helps them with their agenda....


I use the phrase high capacity magazine to convey it's the minimum technology standard of the day that any light infantry ought to possess.


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## 2aguy (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Is that Sweden?  Or Switzerland?




Switzerland......the criminals in Sweden are the ones using fully automatic military rifles and grenades to shoot at and blow up their enemies......

Crime gangs in Sweden: What's behind the rise in the use of explosives?

The frequent use of explosives is a relatively recent phenomenon, and criminologists told The Local that the blasts can be seen as part of an overall rise in violence and growing recklessness in these criminal networks.

Amir Rostami, a police superintendent turned sociologist with a focus on criminal gangs, told The Local that so-called 'street gangs' are showing an increased tendency towards violence, and that this violence was becoming more severe when it took place.

*"If previously they maybe fired one shot or shot someone in the legs, today it's more about AK47s, using more bullets, hand grenades and explosions that we didn't see before.* I'd say that's the biggest shift we see – they're more reckless, they don't seem to care about the consequences," Rostami said.

Fatal shootings linked to criminal gangs have increased from around four per year in the early 1990s to over 40 in 2018. And while the blasts that have taken place in Sweden have caused no fatalities so far this year, they could be seen as a sign that the gangs are unafraid of causing damage and potentially harming people.

Sweden has gone from having one of the lowest rates of gun violence in Europe to having one of the highest, a report said on Wednesday, describing what one researcher called a "social contagion" of killings.​-----
The report said eight out of 10 shootings took place in a "criminal environment", with gang conflicts mentioned as one of the potential reasons for the trend. The drugs trade and low confidence towards the police in some parts of society were also cited as potential factors.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/social-contagion-sweden-sees-surge-deadly-shootings-2021-05-26/​
*In the report on Tuesday, the Swedish Television, citing statistics from the Swedish Police Authority, revealed that by November, there had been as many shootings in 2020 as during the whole of 2019.*
*Between January 1 and December 15, there were 349 confirmed shootings in Sweden, with 111 people wounded and 44 dead as a result, Xinhua news agency quoted the report as saying.
The death toll is close to the highest number on record so far -- 45 gun-related fatalities in 2018.
Most of the shootings, or 146, occurred in the capital Stockholm, where 23 deaths and 48 injuries were reported.
According to the police, most incidents were related to organised crime and conflicts between gang members.
Criminologist Joakim Sturup told Swedish Television that a major reason behind the worrying statistics is that automatic weapons are becoming more commonly used by gang members.*

https://www.daijiworld.com/news/newsDisplay.aspx?newsID=786371​


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> I use the phrase high capacity magazine to convey it's the minimum technology of the day that any light infantry ought to possess.




And when you use that innaccurate term, you help gun grabbing fanatics make their case.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And when you use that innaccurate term, you help gun grabbing fanatics make their case.


It's not an inaccurate term.  High capacity infers a greater number.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> It's not an inaccurate term.  High capacity infers a greater number.


A number greater than standard.
What's the standard magazine size for an AR15?


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> A number greater than standard.
> What's the standard magazine size for an AR15?


30.  

The denotation higher capacity refers to standard civilian magazine which is 5.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Seriously guys you don't need to fight every battle.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> 30.
> The denotation higher capacity refers to standard civilian magazine which is 5.


By what account is 5rds the standard civilian magazine size for anything (let along the AR)?


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> By what account is 5rds the standard civilian magazine size for anything (let along the AR)?


The manufacturers.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> The manufacturers.


Which manufacturers, for which firearms?
The last handgun I bought came from the manufacturer with 5x15rd magazines.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Which manufacturers, for which firearms?
> The last handgun I bought came from the manufacturer with 5x15rd magazines.


I was talking about rifles.  Not handguns.  I've got 5 rounders from a couple Rugers and an FN.  And then there are shotties too.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> I was talking about rifles.  Not handguns.  I've got 5 rounders from a couple Rugers and an FN.  And then there are shotties too.


How does that make 5 rounds the standard "civilian" size for rifles?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

2aguy said:


> We have gun control....felons and the dangerously mentally ill can't have guns.......and if you use a gun for a crime, you are arrested....
> 
> We have all the gun control we need to stop gun crime...the problem is that once the cops arrest a criminal, the democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians release them.......often the most violent gun offenders with multiple felonies for gun crimes.


You gun banners


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

2aguy said:


> You mean besides having fully automatic military rifles in a large number of their homes?
> 
> You have to get past that before you talk about anything else..........


They dont get to have ammo for those guns anymore


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 21, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Gang shootings in Sweden....yes.....Sweden, home of the Swedish Bikini Team.....are seeing an increase in gang shootings.......largely due to immigrant gangs.....
> 
> But...we here in the U.S. are told, constantly, that Europe controls guns.......
> 
> ...


Idiot thread. Just a stupid, overly general argument that no laws work. Stupid thread for stupid people.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> How does that make 5 rounds the standard "civilian" size for rifles?


Hunting requirement I suspect.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Hunting requirement I suspect.


So, there no real standard magazine size for 'civilian' rifles.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> So, there no real standard magazine size for 'civilian' rifles.


If that's how you want to see it.  But I'm going to continue to argue that according to the 2nd Amendment we have the right to own, posses and train with the technology of the day that any light infantry ought to use. Today that means semi-automatic pistols, rifles and shotguns with high capacity magazines.  Fair enough?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> If that's how you want to see it.  But I'm going to continue to argue that according to the 2nd Amendment we have the right to own, posses and train with the technology of the day that any light infantry ought to use.


Well, that's true.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Well, that's true.


Thanks because that's what started this conversation.  I'm still scratching my head has to why.

Today that means semi-automatic pistols, rifles and shotguns with high capacity magazines.


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> It's not an inaccurate term.  High capacity infers a greater number.



It is a lie….when the left uses it, they tell uninformed Americans, in the same breath…….no one needs a one hundred round drum……llland then, when those same Americans nod their heads….the anti-gun fanatics push to ban 15-19 round magazines knowing that that will make guns who use those magazines illegal until someone makes new magazines for those guns……


That is why you are wrong


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> 30.
> 
> The denotation higher capacity refers to standard civilian magazine which is 5.



What?  5 rounds is not a standard magazine…….


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 21, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Well, that's true.



Do you agree with Ding on the magazine definition?


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

2aguy said:


> It is a lie….when the left uses it, they tell uninformed Americans, in the same breath…….no one needs a one hundred round drum……llland then, when those same Americans nod their heads….the anti-gun fanatics push to ban 15-19 round magazines knowing that that will make guns who use those magazines illegal until someone makes new magazines for those guns……
> 
> 
> That is why you are wrong


I don't care if it is a lie or not.  I'm leaning into it.  I'm calling it out implicitly as a protected right.  What better way for me to make myself clear about what I believe is protected than to call it a high capacity magazine.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

2aguy said:


> What?  5 rounds is not a standard magazine…….


Look I cant take out a zombie apocalypse without my hundred round drum


Murica


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

2aguy said:


> What?  5 rounds is not a standard magazine…….


I believe for most state laws it is for hunting.  Just like shotguns have magazine limits too.  My point is that there are no limits as it is high capacity that is a protected right.  Lean into it.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> I don't care if it is a lie or not.  I'm leaning into it.  I'm calling it out implicitly as a protected right.  What better way for me to make myself clear about what I believe is protected than to call it a high capacity magazine.


You gun banners are all the same


Murica


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Look I cant take out a zombie apocalypse without my hundred round drum
> 
> 
> Murica


Everyone knows shotties are for zombies.  Duh.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Everyone knows shotties are for zombies.  Duh.


Well.  I guess for girls.  LOL


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> You gun banners are all the same
> 
> 
> Murica


I'm sorry that peaceable law abiding citizens owning firearms upsets you so much.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Well.  I guess for girls.  LOL


No, they work on the male zombies too.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> I'm sorry that peaceable law abiding citizens owning firearms upsets you so much.


You mean like my firearms?   LOL


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Look I cant take out a zombie apocalypse without my hundred round drum
> 
> 
> Murica


Those seem like they would be kinda heavy.   30 round mags for 5.56 and 20 round mags for 308 work just fine.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Those seem like they would be kinda heavy.   30 round mags for 5.56 and 20 round mags for 308 work just fine.


Gun banner.

Heavy....for a girl


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> You mean like my firearms?   LOL


Wouldn't make that assumption.  You are suspect to me.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Gun banner.
> 
> Heavy....for a girl


If that's how you want to see it be my guest.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Wouldn't make that assumption.  You are suspect to me.


Get em ranger


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Get em ranger


Thanks, dear.  Men lead.  Women respond.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Thanks, dear.  Men lead.  Women respond.


Then respond away sweetie


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Then respond away sweetie


You've been the one responding to me, dear.  I thought that was obvious.  That's why I brought it up.  To show you.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> You've been the one responding to me, dear.  I thought that was obvious.  That's why I brought it up.  To show you.


Ok honey


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Ok honey


That's better.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> That's better.


Good sweetie


----------

