# Global warming?



## HereWeGoAgain (Jul 11, 2012)

Wonder how many libs are going to change their minds about science now?
Because I seem to remember libs saying Republicans hate science.

Tree-ring study proves that climate was WARMER in Roman and Medieval times than it is in the modern industrial age | Mail Online


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## bobgnote (Jul 11, 2012)

_We already know the wingpunk neo-cons are fucktards, and I am an independent non-partisan.

All the wingpunks got ahold of this bullshit tree-ring study, which shows, what we already knew, not only were the Medieval and Roman Warming Periods warmer than we are, but also the Minoan Warming and the usual Holocene maximum were warmer than we are.

But that will change, in a geologic instant.  CO2 is at 400 ppm and accelerating, up, while temperature is being forced UP, to an acceleration of warmth, since CH4 and more CO2 are out-gassing, from warming lands and waters.

CO2 normally peaks at 280 ppm, to turn down, forcing a gradual cooling, over about 100,000 years.

But noooo.  Humans forced that up, with cars, chainsaws, and factories, so temperatures will RISE.  They won't stop, for anything, except for a drastic re-greening, which is enough, to save enough human habitat, to continue the re-greening, until the CO2 clears, in a few hundred thousand years.

Or, the planet will go to hell, and most or all humans will die.  Climate change following warming will include more of any variation, heat, storms, floods, sea level rise, oceanic acidification, droughts, desertification, wildfires, and extinctions.  

You keep copying this shitty link.  I keep replying to it.  My typing is getting faster._


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 11, 2012)

Seems Badgonads has a stutter.


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## bobgnote (Jul 11, 2012)

_It seems wingpunk fucktards kept posting the exact same shit, in different thread groups of USMB,  and ranting, about "liberals."

Eat shit, *Scum Puppy*.  You punkass neo-con bitches don't have legitimate issues or media, to post._


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## Big Fitz (Jul 11, 2012)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Wonder how many libs are going to change their minds about science now?
> Because I seem to remember libs saying Republicans hate science.
> 
> Tree-ring study proves that climate was WARMER in Roman and Medieval times than it is in the modern industrial age | Mail Online


Because it's not about science, it's about religion, power and greed....

....sooooooo none.  Yep.  none.


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 11, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> _It seems wingpunk fucktards kept posting the exact same shit, in different thread groups of USMB,  and ranting, about "liberals."
> 
> Eat shit, *Scum Puppy*.  You punkass neo-con bitches don't have legitimate issues or media, to post._



You really need help with that stutter don't you?

Here you go

Kill Your Stutter - Learn To Speak Without Stuttering Today


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## bobgnote (Jul 11, 2012)

_It's about pig shit._


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 11, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> _It's about pig shit._



We don't want to know about your bodily functions


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## TakeAStepBack (Jul 11, 2012)

Save the planet, Bob. Kill yourself.


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## skookerasbil (Jul 11, 2012)

takeastepback said:


> save the planet, bob. Kill yourself.






*laugh

my

balls

off*


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jul 11, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> _It seems wingpunk fucktards kept posting the exact same shit, in different thread groups of USMB,  and ranting, about "liberals."
> 
> Eat shit, *Scum Puppy*.  You punkass neo-con bitches don't have legitimate issues or media, to post._



This one was first...go suck off yoda you freak.


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## IanC (Jul 12, 2012)

I was wondering when someone was going to post that.

I think I'll wait until the 'auditors' check it out first. tree rings are a pretty crappy temp proxy that are affected by a lot of other factors besides just temperature.

on the other hand, this study falls more in line with the other proxy reconstructions that show temperature has been falling for the last 8000 yrs (while CO2 has been rising)


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## Big Black Dog (Jul 12, 2012)

Don't know about global warming but it's warming up pretty good here in the mid-west.


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## Big Fitz (Jul 12, 2012)

Big Black Dog said:


> Don't know about global warming but it's warming up pretty good here in the mid-west.


Yep.  It's ALMOST as hot as it was in the 1930's.


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## CrusaderFrank (Jul 12, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> _We already know the wingpunk neo-cons are fucktards, and I am an independent non-partisan.
> 
> All the wingpunks got ahold of this bullshit tree-ring study, which shows, what we already knew, not only were the Medieval and Roman Warming Periods warmer than we are, but also the Minoan Warming and the usual Holocene maximum were warmer than we are.
> 
> ...



The Romans drove SUV's and used chainsaws...who knew?


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## CrusaderFrank (Jul 12, 2012)

Big Fitz said:


> Big Black Dog said:
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> > Don't know about global warming but it's warming up pretty good here in the mid-west.
> ...



That's different. CO2 was different back then so we ignore it


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## TakeAStepBack (Jul 12, 2012)

Has bob made the ultimate sacrifice for the planet yet?


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## CrusaderFrank (Jul 12, 2012)

TakeAStepBack said:


> Has bob made the ultimate sacrifice for the planet yet?



Bob is certifiable so I'm very careful about how I talk to him.


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## Big Fitz (Jul 12, 2012)

Please improve the quality of USMB.  Put booboo on ignore and starve the troll.


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## Old Rocks (Jul 12, 2012)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Wonder how many libs are going to change their minds about science now?
> Because I seem to remember libs saying Republicans hate science.
> 
> Tree-ring study proves that climate was WARMER in Roman and Medieval times than it is in the modern industrial age | Mail Online



From a newpaper article? None.

How does the Medieval Warm Period compare to current global temperatures?


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## Old Rocks (Jul 12, 2012)

Big Fitz said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
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> 
> > Wonder how many libs are going to change their minds about science now?
> ...



You silly stupid ass. Those tree rings prove only that it was warmer in Finland at that time. It was not warmer for most of the rest of the world.

Here is a real study from real scientists. 

Proxy-based reconstructions of hemispheric and global surface temperature variations over the past two millennia


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## Unkotare (Jul 12, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> _We already know the wingpunk neo-cons are fucktards, and I am an independent non-partisan._


_


Um, yeah...insanity does seem to be pretty nonpartisan..._


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## CrusaderFrank (Jul 12, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
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> 
> > Wonder how many libs are going to change their minds about science now?
> ...



Oh, so a AGW Cult site says, "Who are you going to believe, Warmers or your lying facts?"

Yeah, that's compelling


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## CrusaderFrank (Jul 12, 2012)

Tell us again how CO2 is cause a 30% increase in ocean acidification.


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## bobgnote (Jul 13, 2012)

_Tell us again how *Punkotardy* sucks your dick and eats your shit so well, you can't do grammar, anymore._


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## skookerasbil (Jul 13, 2012)

TakeAStepBack said:


> Has bob made the ultimate sacrifice for the planet yet?





LAUGH..........MY.........BALLS..........OFF.

Hey Take a step...........gotta stop in here more often bro............we show them the light in the strangest places.............but they dont look at it right!!!


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## SW2SILVER (Jul 13, 2012)

Only an asshole will deny global warming. Or a total moron. I am suffering through one of the hottest julys on record EVER. Rush Limbaugh's armpit didn't cause this shit. I know enough science to know that it's mankind behind all this, not the sun or volcanoes. The peeps that  think otherwise are kidding THEMSELVES.


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## flacaltenn (Jul 13, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> Big Fitz said:
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WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT 


 

Had to take a couple aspirin for the rib pain after I read this.. Gosh Ole Rocks. 

22 cherry picked tree cores from Siberia got worldwide cred in the IPCC report as PROOF of GLOBAL Warming --- but Finnish trees are liars. 

YAD061 -- the most beloved tree in Warmer history was a KGB plant. 

      Get it? I say a "plant"... 

Shit -- I'm gonna need to break out the OxyContin now... I think I broke somethin'.


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## flacaltenn (Jul 13, 2012)

Big Fitz said:


> Please improve the quality of USMB.  Put booboo on ignore and starve the troll.




  

Clean up your environment --- Stamp out pollution..


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## flacaltenn (Jul 13, 2012)

SW2SILVER said:


> Only an asshole will deny global warming. Or a total moron. I am suffering through one of the hottest julys on record EVER. Rush Limbaugh's armpit didn't cause this shit. I know enough science to know that it's mankind behind all this, not the sun or volcanoes. The peeps that  think otherwise are kidding THEMSELVES.



Assholes? Really? How about folks who don't know the meaning of *GLOBAL*?

Weather at Silkeborg, Denmark 13°


Or is that 0.5DegC that the IPCC reports that you've warmed in your lifetime really bugging you? ((Maybe YOUR 13 year lifetime it's more like 0.1degC -- can't tell from this post))


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## chenchenPeter (Jul 18, 2012)

With the development of the world .....People should pay more attention to our global warning...


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## Old Rocks (Jul 18, 2012)

flacaltenn said:


> Old Rocks said:
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Well, Flatulance, in case you have not noticed, that is a National Academy of Science publication. 

Hillbilly Heroin, eh. You and Rush?


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## Zander (Jul 18, 2012)

Clearly, the only solution is worldwide socialism. Globull Warming demands it.....


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## IanC (Jul 19, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> Big Fitz said:
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Old Rocks keeps bringing up Mann's flawed 2008 paper which uses the upsidedown Tiljander cores. even Gavin Schmidt admits that the graph is only valid back to 1650 if you take out the tainted tree rings or the _upsidedown Tiljander cores._ I cant emphasize this enough, Mann's methodology uses the proxies in the most advantageous way, which just happens to be turning 3 out of 4 Tiljander cores upsidedown! the hockey stick shape comes primarily from bristlecone pines and the Tiljander cores, both of which are known to be unsuitable for temperature reconstructions but he continues to use them because he _must_ if he wants to produce a hockey stick.

actually Yamal, and YAD061 is also important for building hockey sticks. it has been shown to be fraudulent via cherry picking.


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## Big Fitz (Jul 19, 2012)

chenchenPeter said:


> With the development of the world .....People should pay more attention to our global warning...


Um no.

Not really.

It's a cult religion and will fade into obscurity inside the century at longest.


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## konradv (Jul 19, 2012)

Big Fitz said:


> chenchenPeter said:
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> > With the development of the world .....People should pay more attention to our global warning...
> ...



I doubt it.  We're building our temple on a mountain top.


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## bobgnote (Jul 19, 2012)

Big Fitz said:


> chenchenPeter said:
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> > With the development of the world .....People should pay more attention to our global warning...
> ...



_That's not what will happen, *Piggie*.  Global warming will get HOT, climate change will get disastrous, and you punkass skeptics will fade, toward the edges of the Earth, which you used to believe in.  

But there is no place, for you to hide.  You will FAIL, like the dead bath-house partrons, which tricked and shot speed, to shove their fatal doses of HIV, all the way, through AIDS and death.  You are a full-blown fucktard, doomed as doomed can be!

Can I watch you eat shit and die?  Before you go, *Pig Shitz*, what religion do you claim, if any?  WTF do you know, about religion, from comparative studies?  Are you a figure, in the cult of OINK?  Is your asshole religious?  Explain your wisdom, of religion._


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## bobgnote (Jul 19, 2012)

Zander said:


> Clearly, the only solution is worldwide socialism. Globull Warming demands it.....




_Too right, *Pander*.  Clearly, companies like Monsanto won't swing their labs at the re-greening task, without commission, from government.

So when did you decide not to talk about your Log Cabin Club tea-room parties?  Aren't you having any fun, being a queer fascist?  Fine, don't say anything, then._


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## Zander (Jul 19, 2012)

The only solution is to send all your worldly possessions to the Goremons.


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## bobgnote (Jul 19, 2012)

_*Pander*, do you cop to the fact, no cap and trade rants are at this thread or at any other thread, I have posted in the last three months, except from neo-con wingpunks, doing some kind of jerkoff deflection?

Oh, I get it, now.  The main religion, for wingpunk fucktards must be based on sainted deflection.

Like, Rush on radio gets to be a wingpunk saint, but in real life, he's mainly an ain't._


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## CrusaderFrank (Jul 19, 2012)

If you sincerely believe that mankind controls the climate, wait until the Sun is overhead and then hop up and down to push the planet further away from the sun. Sure by yourself you won't make a difference but call your fellow warmers over for an agw party and before ya know it, we'll be as cool as we were during the middle ages


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## bobgnote (Jul 19, 2012)

_If you really believe there is no greenhouse effect, get in your car, at mid-day, roll up the windows, and enjoy the effects, of redundant infrared radiation effects, which is what is happening, with the atmosphere, which is causing more heat, given increasing GHG concentrations.

If you really believe we don't need to worry about sea level rise, just go ahead and fire up the planet, since we will experience more fires, droughts, and desertification, but that sea level rise will just fall off the edge of the Earth, which is obviously flat.

Willard Meat Obamney won't release his tax returns.  Willard Meat has a better chance of bullshitting Americans and getting elected, than America has, of surviving climate change, given the prevalence, of flat-earth fuckups, who want to push their bullshit, like the dead bath-house freaks, who shot speed and tricked, to shove their doses of HIV, all the way through AIDS, to death.

The bath-houses are CLOSED, the Earth is a sphere, and anti-AGW skeptics are bitches, who haven't heard of coal, oil, cars, or chainsaws.  You bitches are due to go extinct, and I'm not sorry._


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## Big Fitz (Jul 19, 2012)

konradv said:


> Big Fitz said:
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We still know about the Mithra Mystery Cult, that was once the most popular roman religion out there.

How many members today?  Met a Hugonaut lately?


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## konradv (Jul 20, 2012)

Big Fitz said:


> konradv said:
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The Mithras cult was subsumed by Christianity which adopted much of its mythology.

As for Huguenots, they were garden variety Calvinists.  Still plenty of them around.


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## Unkotare (Jul 20, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> _If you really believe there is no greenhouse effect, get in your car, at mid-day, roll up the windows, and enjoy the effects, of redundant infrared radiation effects, which is what is happening, with the atmosphere, which is causing more heat, given increasing GHG concentrations._


_



Just when it seems you can't get any more stupid and crazy - you find a way!_


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## Big Fitz (Jul 20, 2012)

konradv said:


> Big Fitz said:
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Early Christians took on some of the cult's rituals and adapted them to their purpose.  Same way you see celtic and norse paganism as well.  Does that mean that Christianity = Mithras Cult?  Nope.

Hugonauts used a variant of Calvinist doctrine.  I don't know of many Hugonaut churches around although you'll find shades of Calvinist theology around.

So, nice try, but not quite.


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## bobgnote (Jul 20, 2012)

_Just when I think he can't get any queerer, *Punkotardy* finds a way!

Don't forget, *Punko*, you don't have to worry about SLR, if you are only living a few more dog years.  That melt water will just roll off the edge of the Earth, anyway, right asshole?  You sure are a punkass faggot, for deleting the rest of my quotable post.  I guess you don't like to split and reply.

Will Willard Meat Obamney unify the flat-earthers, to win, in November, without even releasing the relevant tax returns, 1999 through 2009, and his FBARs?  That's who you're voting for, isn't it, *Punkotardy*?_


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## flacaltenn (Jul 20, 2012)

Zander said:


> The only solution is to send all your worldly possessions to the Goremons.



You just gotta stop putting up these EROTIC posters Zander.    

We have impressionable profane little trolls around here that will get aroused.


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## bobgnote (Jul 21, 2012)

_It's too bad Al Gore is such a high-profile hypocrite, since he gives all the wingpunks a lot of bogus media, to play with._


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## skookerasbil (Jul 21, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> _It's too bad Al Gore is such a high-profile hypocrite, since he gives all the wingpunks a lot of bogus media, to play with._




winning with bogus media s0n............


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## skookerasbil (Jul 21, 2012)

Doomsdayer losing...................


*The end of the world is not going to happen within our lifetimes. That&#8217;s the word from Justin Deering, author of The End of the World Delusion: How Doomsayers Endanger Society. &#8220;We&#8217;re bombarded with end-of-the-world scares practically everywhere you look,&#8221; Deering explains. Deering doesn&#8217;t care whether the claims arise from religious beliefs or scientific concerns. &#8220;It doesn&#8217;t matter to me whether they&#8217;re a preacher or a scientist, a shaman mystic or an expert researcher. If they&#8217;re saying the end is near, they&#8217;re wrong.&#8221;&#8212;*

Is Energy Realism Returning To Europe?


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## bobgnote (Jul 21, 2012)

skookerasbil said:


> Doomsdayer losing...................
> 
> *The end of the world is not going to happen within our lifetimes. Thats the word from Justin Deering, author of The End of the World Delusion: How Doomsayers Endanger Society. Were bombarded with end-of-the-world scares practically everywhere you look, Deering explains. Deering doesnt care whether the claims arise from religious beliefs or scientific concerns. It doesnt matter to me whether theyre a preacher or a scientist, a shaman mystic or an expert researcher. If theyre saying the end is near, theyre wrong.*
> 
> Is Energy Realism Returning To Europe?



_Gosh, *suck*!  Your linked guy is reasonable.  We are only going to eat shit, for the time being.  But we won't all up and die, not yet.

Some people and a lot of animals are going to die, but we humans won't all die off, until later, when we get a real dose of disasters.  The disasters we have now will include floods and droughts, in succession, which we can survive.

You might have to spit out some dose of ass and balls you happen to have in your big mouth, to kiss somebody's ass goodbye, sooner or later._


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## skookerasbil (Jul 21, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> skookerasbil said:
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> 
> > Doomsdayer losing...................
> ...




What can I say s0n......never been an all the time glass half full guy like you. Being perpetually miserable and not doing anything about it is gay in my book. Like I said.......guys who worry about trivial shit all the time need an adjustment of the setting screws. Dollar to a thousand stale donuts you got depression someplace in your family s0n. OCD is under the depression umbrella. You should look into it........seriously bro. Or not......


Ruminating thoughts on stupid stuff is curable via pharmachological aids. My wife couldnt leave the house without it being all nice and neat all the time........got pissy all the time...............got Lexirpo and whoooooop........life with decreased levels of misery.
OCD is very prevelant in our society and most people navigate life just fine with it........but in a perpetual state of worry. Gay.......who the fuck needs that? Worrying over the world ending calls for an adjustment of the setting screws. Cant be done with what dumbasses call "willpower". There is no such thing.


Cant figure out this balls/ass obssession s0n, but its worth exploring...........usually related to some bad experience during adolesence.........perhaps an attempt at switch hitting gone bad.


Anyway..........clinicians now refer to it as Pure-O...............http://www.ehow.com/how_4574767_deal-obsessive-thinking.html


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## skookerasbil (Jul 21, 2012)

Who else would give 5-2 odds that Bob will make this his desktop wallpaper...............


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## Father Time (Jul 21, 2012)

Zander said:


> Clearly, the only solution is worldwide socialism. Globull Warming demands it.....



Not really, and anyone saying it does can be ignored.


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## Father Time (Jul 21, 2012)

Zander said:


> The only solution is to send all your worldly possessions to the Goremons.



That's got to be the stupidest straw man I've ever seen.

"Hey you're kicking that man to death"

"Are you saying I have power over life and death? That's crazy *continues kicking*"


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## Father Time (Jul 21, 2012)

Big Fitz said:


> chenchenPeter said:
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> 
> > With the development of the world .....People should pay more attention to our global warning...
> ...



No the religion is with the deniers who have to yell conspiracy when they see all the international science communities supporting it or coincidence when temperature records keep getting broken

Were More Than 3,000 Heat Records Actually Set in June? | PBS NewsHour


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## Unkotare (Jul 21, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> Just when I think





Stop right there, fruitcake. Everyone knows you don't think.


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## skookerasbil (Jul 21, 2012)

Father Time said:


> Big Fitz said:
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yup..........but the religion is winning s0n............ Nobody cares about temperature records except the k00ks.


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## Big Fitz (Jul 22, 2012)

Father Time said:


> Big Fitz said:
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And it's still not as warm as the 1930's, or the storms as violent as the 1900's or 1940's or 1860's.  Right now, in WI, we've had one of the warmest summers since... wait for it...  1956.  Not even up to 1930's dustbowl levels here yet.

Will it be hotter in the future?  Sure thing.

Will it be cooler?  Absolutely.

One thing's for sure though... it will not be man's fault.


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## bobgnote (Jul 22, 2012)

Big Fitz said:


> Father Time said:
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_Will *Pig Shitz* have a job, oinking, in the near future?

Did we see temperatures set modern instrument records, in the past year?  Over 34,000 new high-temp records were set, June 2011-June 2012.  2284 daily US high-temp records fell, in June, 2012.  The ratio of broken highs to broken lows is moving, toward 20-1, by 2050, and toward 50-1, by 2100.

All ten of the hottest years in the instrument record happened, 1998-2010.  2012 will be another very hot year.

But a lot of ice has been melting!  The solar intensity is not very great.  Solar cycle 24 is the least intense, since the one, which peaked, in 1928.  But temperatures sure are rising, and this rise is ACCELERATING.

When perennial ice melts, this cools the atmosphere and oceans!  But all that is really noticeable is the way the Atlantic trade currents are faltering, which is leading to enhanced sea level rise, from Cape Hatteras to Boston.  Temperatures are RISING.

Pope Benedict explains skeptics are somehow related, to atheists.  So a lot of skeptics ignore their several failures, and guys like *Pig Shitz* rant, how global warming science is "religion," when *Pig Shitz* can't find a science link, to save his curly tail.

*Punkotardy* won't go get a scientific study, either.  Eat shit, flat-earth queers!  You will become extinct, and your bath-houses will CLOSE, forever._

State of the Climate | National Overview | March 2012



> The cold season, which is defined as October 2011 through March 2012 and an important period for national heating needs, was the second warmest on record for the contiguous U.S. with a nationally-averaged temperature 3.8 degrees F above average. Only the cold season of 1999-2000 was warmer. Twenty-one states across the Midwest and Northeast, areas of the country with high seasonal heating demands, were record warm for the six-month period.



United States Broke 2,284 Daily Temperature Records in June | Geekosystem



> During the month of June, the United States broke 2,284 daily high temperature records. It has now been confirmed that it has, indeed, been hot.
> 
> And thats not all. On top of the 2,284 broken records, 998 daily high records were tied. Added together, the United States broke or tied around 110 daily high temperature records every single day of the month. According to NPR , in the first five days of July the U.S. broke another 942 records and tied 273 more. It is officially obscenely hot.
> 
> NPR also notes that, for the year so far, theyve set 23,282 daily high temperature records whilst during the same period last year only 13,582 were broken. My rusty-but-accurate math puts this year at having a 71.4 percent increase in records broken. The maps created by the National Climatic Data Center when given the right parameters  will spit out all of this and more.



--------------------

_And that is with a lot of ice melting, during a cool solar cycle.  

I'm still waiting, for one of you queers, to get a science link up, *Punko* and *Piggie*._


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## Trakar (Jul 23, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> ...NPR also notes that, for the year so far, theyve set 23,282 daily high temperature records whilst during the same period last year only 13,582 were broken. My rusty-but-accurate math puts this year at having a 71.4 percent increase in records broken. The maps created by the National Climatic Data Center when given the right parameters will spit out all of this and more.
> 
> --------------------
> 
> ...


 
This reminds me of an article Physics Today had back in their March issue (written back in late Jan or Feb., before this year's weather had really lept into the extreme weather region very much):

"Predicting and managing extreme weather events" 
Jane Lubchenco and Thomas R. Karl 

March 2012, page 31



> _Earths climate is warming, and destructive weather is growing more prevalent. Coping with the changes will require collaborative science, forward-thinking policy, and an informed public. _
> 
> The number of events that produced on the order of $1 billion or more in damages in 2011 is the largest since tracking of that statistic began in 1980, even after damages are adjusted for inflation. NOAA estimates that there were at least 14 such events in 2011. (The previous record was nine, set in 2008; an average year would see three or four.) Collectively, the 14 events resulted in approximately $55 billion in damage.2 Furthermore, many events produced less than $1 billion in damage, but are not included in the tally, although they collectively represent additional significant financial losses. Why did we see such expensive damage last year? There are likely a number of contributing factors, including upward trends in population and infrastructure, migration to vulnerable areas, and climate change. The contribution of each of these factors remains an important research issue.
> 
> ...


 
Much, much more available at link: Cookies Required


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## flacaltenn (Jul 23, 2012)

Trakar said:


> bobgnote said:
> 
> 
> > ...NPR also notes that, for the year so far, theyve set 23,282 daily high temperature records whilst during the same period last year only 13,582 were broken. My rusty-but-accurate math puts this year at having a 71.4 percent increase in records broken. The maps created by the National Climatic Data Center when given the right parameters will spit out all of this and more.
> ...



The physical cost of damage in 2011 was due to nothing else except chance.. The heart of 4 mid-size cities were hit by tornadoes. So unless you want to assert that G.W. has produced SMARTER tornadoes -- I'll take a raincheck on the "analysis"...


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## Trakar (Jul 23, 2012)

> The physical cost of damage in 2011 was due to nothing else except chance.. The heart of 4 mid-size cities were hit by tornadoes. So unless you want to assert that G.W. has produced SMARTER tornadoes...


 
No need to resort to the paranoid supernatural fantasies that seem to make up the foundations of most politically conservative thought processes, all that is required is the understanding that more energy retained in the planet's environment means that the distribution of this energy throughout the environment is going to result in either more storm systems or stronger storm systems (possibly even both). Either way, you increase the odds of damage and the degree of damage when such odds are actualized. Simple physics and statistics.


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## bobgnote (Jul 23, 2012)

_With regard to tornadoes, the storms will be bigger and more numerous, and tornado alley will expand, from California, to POLAND, where destructive storms just happened._


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## OohPooPahDoo (Jul 23, 2012)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Wonder how many libs are going to change their minds about science now?
> Because I seem to remember libs saying Republicans hate science.
> 
> Tree-ring study proves that climate was WARMER in Roman and Medieval times than it is in the modern industrial age | Mail Online



Why would this make anyone change their mind about science?


----------



## Trakar (Jul 23, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > Wonder how many libs are going to change their minds about science now?
> ...


 
Evidently it made a lot of denialists change (overnight) their tune about the reliability of tree-ring proxy study results,...though if they had actually read and understood the study, I wonder if their enthusiasm would be as great?


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jul 23, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> _With regard to tornadoes, the storms will be bigger and more numerous, and tornado alley will expand, from California, to POLAND, where destructive storms just happened._



Like all those Cat VI and VII hurricanes that hit New Orleans after Katrina

Can Cat XII or IX be far behind?


----------



## Trakar (Jul 23, 2012)

CrusaderFrank said:


> bobgnote said:
> 
> 
> > _With regard to tornadoes, the storms will be bigger and more numerous, and tornado alley will expand, from California, to POLAND, where destructive storms just happened._
> ...


 

I hear your incantations, but thus far have seen nothing but piles of straw that do not shine and smell more like stable than precious metal.

_"Heute back ich, morgen brau ich,_ _Übermorgen hol ich mir der Königin ihr Kind;_ _Ach, wie gut, dass niemand weiß,_ _dass ich Rumpelstilzchen heiß)"_


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jul 23, 2012)

Trakar said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > bobgnote said:
> ...



News Item: Drought. Warmers explain: AGW. it HAS to be! Nothing else fits the facts!
News Item: Flood. Warmers explain: AGW. it HAS to be! Nothing else fits the facts!

News Item: Snowfall. Warmers explain: AGW. it HAS to be! Nothing else fits the facts!
News Item: No Snow. Warmers explain: AGW. it HAS to be! Nothing else fits the facts!


----------



## Trakar (Jul 23, 2012)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Trakar said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...


 
Your delusional rants, and you are welcome to them


----------



## Unkotare (Jul 23, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> _With regard to tornadoes, the storms will be bigger and more numerous,[sic] and tornado alley will expand, from California,[sic] to POLAND,[sic] where destructive storms just happened._






,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,!


----------



## tjvh (Jul 23, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> _With regard to tornadoes, the storms will be bigger and more numerous, and tornado alley will expand, from California, to POLAND, where destructive storms just happened._[/QUOTE
> 
> *Really?* And did Mother Nature tell you that?


----------



## Big Fitz (Jul 23, 2012)

Well today I just found out that this is the 2nd hottest july on record for WI.  With the remaining time and cool front coming in, it looks like it won't beat 1921 and it barely beat the third place July from the 1930's... can't remember the year.

Plus this now badly needed rain is hitting the state lessening the drought and possibly allowing farmers to salvage SOME of the corn crops.

We'll see.


----------



## Trakar (Jul 23, 2012)

Big Fitz said:


> Well today I just found out that this is the 2nd hottest july on record for WI. With the remaining time and cool front coming in, it looks like it won't beat 1921 and it barely beat the third place July from the 1930's... can't remember the year.
> 
> Plus this now badly needed rain is hitting the state lessening the drought and possibly allowing farmers to salvage SOME of the corn crops.
> 
> We'll see.


 
I hope you are correct, times are rough enough without having to compound the problems with food shortages and price gouging.


----------



## bobgnote (Jul 24, 2012)

_The problem is we will have TOO MUCH water and heat, where GHGs are too concentrated.  This will lead, to more natural disasters, which have been observed, to increase, in number and intensity.

Hence Trakar's RE observations.

The practical problem, with humanity is we have TOO MANY retards.  For instance, *Punkotardy* somehow manages to completely ignore scientific issues, which is common among wingpunk fucktards, but also, he manages to severally notice how I use commas, before prepositions, by labeling them "spelling incorrect."

I wonder how many commas he will try to correct, with "sic?"

We will soon see, if retards are going to smarten up, enough to avoid extinction.  You tardies won't be as numerous, soon enough.  NO WAY can all of you make it, through what is to come._


----------



## TakeAStepBack (Jul 24, 2012)

Save the planet, bob. Commit to the ultimate sacrifice.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jul 24, 2012)

Warmers exhaling CO2...what an irony


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jul 24, 2012)

Trakar said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Trakar said:
> ...



Can you repeat your ColdFusion CO2 experiment and post it on Youtube this time so we all can see how you got a 5 degree increase from 600PPM of CO2?

Also, tell us again about how the oceans are turning acidic because...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9XHwmAojLw]I Love That Story - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## bobgnote (Jul 24, 2012)

TakeAStepBack said:


> Save the planet, bob. Commit to the ultimate sacrifice.



_What would that be, *TakeAShitinyerHat*?  Do I have time for it?

Do you need a haircut, or something?_


----------



## TakeAStepBack (Jul 24, 2012)

You're contributing to the GHG emissions by breathing, bob. Save the planet, stop breathing.


----------



## bobgnote (Jul 24, 2012)

_You'll stop breathing, before I stop breathing, *TakeAShitinyerHat.*

You'll be sucking cock in traffic, and you'll choke, or some car will nail you and your trick._


----------



## ConzHateUSA (Jul 24, 2012)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Wonder how many libs are going to change their minds about science now?
> Because I seem to remember libs saying Republicans hate science.
> 
> Tree-ring study proves that climate was WARMER in Roman and Medieval times than it is in the modern industrial age | Mail Online





oh god, while you are literally dying from the effects of climate change i pray to god I am there laughing at your stupid, bigoted, moronic ass


----------



## TakeAStepBack (Jul 24, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> _You'll stop breathing, before I stop breathing, *TakeAShitinyerHat.*
> 
> You'll be sucking cock in traffic, and you'll choke, or some car will nail you and your trick._





Sure thing, bob.


----------



## Trakar (Jul 24, 2012)

Plateau Gardening: Global warming effects in your backyard 



> CROSSVILLE  As much as we might wish our natural environment would remain constant, scientists who study our planets history as recorded in its rocks and fossils (paeleogeographers), tell us major changes in the land, oceans and global climate patterns occurred long before human beings walked the land or built machines to fill the atmosphere with carbon dioxide. When the earth shook and quaked, land masses moved. Ash that filled the skies as volcanoes erupted caused major cooling events. Sea levels rose and fell. For example, ancient limestone beds containing coral and clamshells in New York and Pennsylvania testify to that region once being under sea water.
> 
> Credible scientific sources such as the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) review and assess information related to worldwide climate change today. The IPCC says statistics support the idea that planet earth is indeed experiencing global warming. Websites like that for National Geographic (Global Warming Effects Information, Global Warming Effects Facts, Climate Change Effects - National Geographic) say effects of this upward shift in mercury are evident right now. We need not wait for the distant future to feel the impact.
> 
> ...


 
Unfortunately, we now must wait til next week to see what anecdote will await our reading!


----------



## skookerasbil (Jul 24, 2012)

TakeAStepBack said:


> You're contributing to the GHG emissions by breathing, bob. Save the planet, stop breathing.









He's having too much fun drilling his cat on the couch.


----------



## ConzHateUSA (Jul 24, 2012)

Dont tell me I have found another thread where people who are LITERALLY DYING FROM CLIMATE CHANGE  are defending the very people KILLING THEM

LOLOLOLOL

stupid shitbag terrorist baggers


----------



## Trakar (Jul 24, 2012)

*AN Australian Antarctic scientist has made a climate studies breakthrough by examining how the earth warmed up after the last Ice Age. *


> Glaciologist Joel Pedro, from the Antarctic Climate and Ecosystems Cooperative Research Centre, is part of an international team that has worked out how quickly carbon entered the atmosphere as a result of temperature rises beginning around 19,000 years ago.
> The team discovered that CO2 increased naturally in the atmosphere much more quickly than previously thought during an 8000-year period of global warming.
> "The new thing here is to pin down the time scales of how that worked in the past," Dr Pedro told AAP.
> "If there was a lag at all then it was likely no more than 400 years.
> ...


----------



## ConzHateUSA (Jul 24, 2012)

but but but but but but

my  owners tell me there is  no climate change

but but but but but but


----------



## bobgnote (Jul 24, 2012)

NOAA Climate Services

_This is always a good site._


----------



## Unkotare (Jul 24, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> _You'll stop breathing,[sic] before I stop breathing, *TakeAShitinyerHat.*
> 
> You'll be sucking cock in traffic,[sic] and you'll choke, or some car will nail you and your trick._




Learn English or get the fuck out of my country, headcase.


----------



## flacaltenn (Jul 24, 2012)

Big Fitz said:


> Well today I just found out that this is the 2nd hottest july on record for WI.  With the remaining time and cool front coming in, it looks like it won't beat 1921 and it barely beat the third place July from the 1930's... can't remember the year.
> 
> Plus this now badly needed rain is hitting the state lessening the drought and possibly allowing farmers to salvage SOME of the corn crops.
> 
> We'll see.



Hey -- let's throw out some more inflammatory AND USELESS anecdotal weather incidents..

This past June was the WETTEST JUNE ON RECORD for London.. 

Take that -- you fear-mongerers...


----------



## flacaltenn (Jul 24, 2012)

Trakar said:


> > The physical cost of damage in 2011 was due to nothing else except chance.. The heart of 4 mid-size cities were hit by tornadoes. So unless you want to assert that G.W. has produced SMARTER tornadoes...
> 
> 
> 
> No need to resort to the paranoid supernatural fantasies that seem to make up the foundations of most politically conservative thought processes, all that is required is the understanding that more energy retained in the planet's environment means that the distribution of this energy throughout the environment is going to result in either more storm systems or stronger storm systems (possibly even both). Either way, you increase the odds of damage and the degree of damage when such odds are actualized. Simple physics and statistics.



Nope.. Name me a year where 4 mid-size US city centers were hit in the same season.. 

I was responding to your fear-mongering article quoting dollar damages that said.. 



> The number of events that produced on the order of $1 billion or more in damages in 2011 is the largest since tracking of that statistic began in 1980, even after damages are adjusted for inflation. NOAA estimates that there were at least 14 such events in 2011. (The previous record was nine, set in 2008; an average year would see three or four.) Collectively, the 14 events resulted in approximately $55 billion in damage.2 Furthermore, many events produced less than $1 billion in damage, but are not included in the tally, although they collectively represent additional significant financial losses. Why did we see such expensive damage last year? *There are likely a number of contributing factors, including upward trends in population and infrastructure, migration to vulnerable areas, and climate change. The contribution of each of these factors remains an important research issue.*



Note -- they name 4 factors -- you LEAP to conclusions.. 

Number of events $1B or more are strictly based on the already low probability of an F2 or greater storm hitting a highly developed area. You fail to prove that the number, intensity or type of storms was influenced by "more energy in the system". 

Rate and distribution of "highly developed areas" plays more into the dollar-wise damage than a measly 0.5W/m2 increase in surface energy.. 

I'll wait for you to locate the years when that many city centers were leveled instead of cow pastures or a roadside fruit stand.

Just like Katrina -- there was a GIANT LEAP to the megaphones to pronounce the effects of a 1degC rise in surface temperature had created an age of constant destruction.. You and Ole Rocks and the profane SpongePuppet (who is STILL #1 on my ignore list) will be doing this nonsense for another 150 years before you have a case. Got the stamina? I'd go buy a few cases of "5 Hour Energy" and Red Bull to get you thru..


----------



## Old Rocks (Jul 24, 2012)

flacaltenn said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > Well today I just found out that this is the 2nd hottest july on record for WI.  With the remaining time and cool front coming in, it looks like it won't beat 1921 and it barely beat the third place July from the 1930's... can't remember the year.
> ...



Thank you for such an abysmally stupid post, Flatulance. 

Of course that fact that the June temperature, according to Dr. Spencer was higher than any month recorded prior to 1997 is just a minor point. 

In fact, the bottom of the running mean for this the last La Nina period, 2010 through the first four months of 2012, is higher than any of the running mean highs prior to 1998.

Now we are supposed to enter an El Nino period sometime between now and September. Things are going to get very interesting.


----------



## Old Rocks (Jul 24, 2012)

flacaltenn said:


> Trakar said:
> 
> 
> > > The physical cost of damage in 2011 was due to nothing else except chance.. The heart of 4 mid-size cities were hit by tornadoes. So unless you want to assert that G.W. has produced SMARTER tornadoes...
> ...




*The two worst years for the number of tornados have been in the last decade. Only one year exceeded the death toll of 2011, and that was due to one tornado, the Tri-State Tornado.*

Tornadoes of 2011 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This page documents the tornadoes and tornado outbreaks of 2011. Extremely destructive tornadoes form most frequently in the U.S., Bangladesh and Eastern India, but they can occur almost anywhere under the right conditions. Tornadoes also appear regularly in neighboring southern Canada during the Northern Hemisphere's summer season, and somewhat regularly in Europe, Asia, and Australia.

There were 1,897 tornadoes reported in the US in 2011 (of which 1,704 were confirmed). 2011 was an exceptionally destructive and deadly year for tornadoes; worldwide, at least 577 people perished due to tornadoes: 12 in Bangladesh, two in South Africa, one in New Zealand, one in the Philippines, one in Russia, one in Canada, and an estimated 553 in the United States (compared to 564 US deaths in the prior ten years combined).[2] Due mostly to several extremely large tornado outbreaks in the middle and end of April and in late May, the year finished well above average in almost every category, with six EF5 tornadoes and nearly enough total tornado reports to eclipse the mark of 1,817 tornadoes recorded in in 2004, the current record year for total number of tornadoes.

553 confirmed fatalities is also the second-most tornadic deaths in a single year for tornadoes in US history. This total is due in large part to the 325 tornadic deaths that occurred during the April 2528, 2011 tornado outbreak across the Southeastern United States and the 158 tornadic deaths in the 2011 Joplin tornado.[3]


----------



## flacaltenn (Jul 25, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Big Fitz said:
> ...



I figured that "absymally stupid" would be something you might understand. It is a valid factoid with the power of NULLIFYING certain factoids that you have proposed to bolster your "end is near" agenda.. Nothing more -- nothing less.. 

I got tired of all the "gee is it hot in here?" , and the Art Bell - like "certainly this is the Quickening occuring NOW" statements about weather -- so I decided to submit one of my own..


----------



## flacaltenn (Jul 25, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Trakar said:
> ...



Worse in terms of DEATHS and MONEY -- but random in the paths they chose to take to destroy CITY CENTERS.. You really need to drop this pretense that random tornado tracks aligned directly with the centers of Birmingham, Tuscaloosa, Joplin and other cities in 2011 had ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to do with a 1 or 2 degree rise in temperature.. 




> List of tornadoes striking downtown areas of large cities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> This article is a list of tornadoes that have impacted the central business district (downtown or city centre) of a large city (that is, one having at least 50,000 people, not counting suburbs or outlying communities, at the time of the storm).
> 
> ...



Out of the 1200 tornadoes reported in 2011 ---- these few storms account for the vast majority of the cost and injuries.. And there hasn't been a targeted assault on populated areas like this in one year in recorded weather history...


----------



## Old Rocks (Jul 25, 2012)

flacaltenn said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...



Nice little strawman there, Flatulance. Show me where I have ever posted that the 'end is near'? What we are discussing are the effects of GHGs on our agriculture and environment in a world with over 7 billion people in it. 

When the affects on agriculter are severe enough, that population number will be reduced in an unpleasant manner. When the environment changes enough, rapidly, there are many extinctions in the natural environment. 

All of these effects are unpleasant and not in our interests at all.


----------



## bobgnote (Jul 25, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> bobgnote said:
> 
> 
> > _You'll stop breathing,[sic] before I stop breathing, *TakeAShitinyerHat.*
> ...



_Eat an English teacher's shit, or pull your head out of your asshole, and eat an English teacher's shit, faggot.  Heard of using a comma, between two independent clauses, each of which could be a complete sentence, if not connected, by a preposition, queerboy?

Of course, you can keep eating dog shit and sucking any old penis, but if you eat English-teacher shit, you might get your run-on sentences corrected.

It takes a really tardy punk, to try to correct proper English usage, again and again._


----------



## Unkotare (Jul 25, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > bobgnote said:
> ...




You have no idea what you are talking about, you illiterate buffoon.


----------



## bobgnote (Jul 25, 2012)

_As many of us know, El Nino is due.  This will likely mean a sudden end, to the Mid-western drought.

That mighty Mississippi sure is likely to get all swollen, when it ain't much, now, is it *Fecaltoons*?  

Whether you are called "*Flatulance*," or "*Fecalton*," or "*Fatass*," or "*Fecaltoonces*," I think we all agree, you are completely full of shit, in Hillbilly Hollywood.  But you'll see that Mississippi River do its thing, before we do._


----------



## bobgnote (Jul 25, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> bobgnote said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



_You are partly correct, faggot.  I know all about English grammar, sentence structure, punctuation, spelling, and US usages, but YOU know all about eating shit and sucking dicks, which is why I WRITE, in plain English, telling you to go, with what you know.

That happens to be eating shit and sucking dick.  Go to it, faggot.  Talk, with your mouth full, if you get to, in bad English._

Clause - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Purdue OWL: Independent and Dependent Clauses



> 1. Coordinating Conjunction
> 
> The seven coordinating conjunctions used as connecting words at the beginning of an independent clause are and, but, for, or, nor, so, and yet. When the second independent clause in a sentence begins with a coordinating conjunction, a comma is needed before the coordinating conjunction:
> 
> ...



_A "fused" sentence is what used to be called a "run-on" sentence, faggot.

This all happened, in my country, bitch.  Be advised; I won't be moving._


----------



## Unkotare (Jul 25, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> I know all about English grammar, sentence structure, punctuation, spelling, and US usages





No, you really don't. You can copy and paste all day long, but you cannot use the language correctly. If you tried to read and understand what you copied and pasted you might help yourself out, but you don't seem bright enough for even that.


----------



## Unkotare (Jul 25, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> I won't be moving.





Then you'd better take an English class or something if you want to be allowed to stay.


----------



## flacaltenn (Jul 25, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> bobgnote said:
> 
> 
> > I won't be moving.
> ...



Unkotare ---

You don't have the profane little troll on ignore yet? Improved my surfing experience immensely and he's the ONLY USMB poster I've ever truely blocked. 

BTW -- I had a samoyed. Lovely dog -- and as I found out -- quite useful as "chick magnet". Which I hear was the original goal of the breeding program since they really aren't "skilled" at much else...


----------



## westwall (Jul 25, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
> ...







And Manns study only proved that it was warmer in that ONE tree within that ONE grove of trees.  Interesting how you give that all sorts of credence.


----------



## Unkotare (Jul 25, 2012)

flacaltenn said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > bobgnote said:
> ...





I find he is also quite skilled at shedding, but I know what you mean.


----------



## bobgnote (Jul 25, 2012)

_So, who is the unofficial leader, of RightWingFaggotsThatRunWordsTogether?

I would guess it's *Punkotardy*, since he doesn't know much else._


----------



## Old Rocks (Jul 25, 2012)

westwall said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Big Fitz said:
> ...



Multiple differant kinds of proxies from many studies have all supported Mann's graph. Simple fact.


----------



## Old Rocks (Jul 25, 2012)

flacaltenn said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > bobgnote said:
> ...



Damn. You must be an engineer. Only an engineer would have to have a dog to attract the ladies. The rest of us do it on our own


----------



## Old Rocks (Jul 25, 2012)

By the way, Walleyes, was worried a bit about you. Sounded like some of those fires were in your neighborhood. Glad to see you back, even if you are incapable of understanding real science.


----------



## skookerasbil (Jul 25, 2012)

West bro........where the hell you been? Old Rocks has missed you bro.........actually, I think he enjoyed the vacation!!! After all, nobody is better at hitting Old Rocks with multiple MOAB's than you.


----------



## westwall (Jul 25, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...







Only because they used his data "set" (and i use that term verrry loosely) and his methods.  Of course they will get the same result.  A monkey would do the same.


----------



## westwall (Jul 25, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> By the way, Walleyes, was worried a bit about you. Sounded like some of those fires were in your neighborhood. Glad to see you back, even if you are incapable of understanding real science.







The fires are way southeast of me and we had a great time in Europe.  Even flew in a big airplane and everything!


----------



## westwall (Jul 25, 2012)

skookerasbil said:


> West bro........where the hell you been? Old Rocks has missed you bro.........actually, I think he enjoyed the vacation!!! After all, nobody is better at hitting Old Rocks with multiple MOAB's than you.






The family and I took a nice vacation trip to Paris to do some maintenance on my wifes flat.  It's been in her family for over 100 years so we make sure it is kept in good shape.  I also blipped over to the UK for the Grand Prix race and then we stuck around so I could take in the German GP!  

It was a wonderful trip full of exxcessive burning of hydrocarbons!


----------



## bobgnote (Jul 25, 2012)

*Wally*: "In a big airplane and everything."  

_When you land in those foreign countries, you have to watch out, for those tricky ALIENS.  They cause global warming, you know, with CHAINSAWS, from other worlds.

While you were gone, *Wally*, brilliant scientist Anthony Watt proved humans didn't invent the chainsaw, so GW isn't on us.  Even if GW were our fault, I move we just claim to be too Jewish, to be responsible.

We have to sack SOMEBODY, with GW, since lookie here, TSI and sunspots are relatively low, lots of ice is melting, and somehow, temperatures should all be like Alaska's, which are down a degree.

But noooo.  CO2 is up, CH4 is out-gassing, to beat the band, and temperature is setting record highs.  Somebody thinks high records will outnumber lows, by 20-1, by 2050.  I think so, since that northern albedo will fail, and more GHGs will get out.  CO2 will get to 450 ppm, by 2050.

THEN, temperature high records will out-number low records, by 50-1, by 2100.

So we have to blame SOMEBODY, *Wally*.  You can help.  You must have met some fuckup ALIENS, on vacation, who need to get chumped, over Alien Global Warming.  We need to get this done, before the Greenland ice fails, completely.  You know why.

Not even Anthony Watt thinks the melt will all fall off the edge of the Earth.  So we have to get elitist, to sacrifice something and somebody.  We should just Jew and screw and tatoo those ALIENS, do ya think?

You tell those aliens just whose world this really is, *Wally*!  *Wally* WORLD!  *Wally* WORLD!  Yeah!_


----------



## bobgnote (Jul 25, 2012)

_What's Up With THIS?  Temperatures and CO2 concentrations, of course!_








_Damn!  That ice has been melting, really.  That melt should have cooled atmospheric and ocean temperatures, you know.  So you have some 'splainin' to do, Wally.  Did you get a little TOO foreign, when you were away?  Does the CIA need to know about what you were up to?

CIA Keeps Its Climate Work Under Wraps | Mother Jones

Some wise-guys keep trying to take their money away, for founding a Center on Climate Change and National Security.  We need to get some aliens, for the company to interrogate.

So get some chump ALIENS, *Wally*.  You know some of 'em.  Snitch 'em out, like a real American, or we'll know one of 'em bit you, so now you're infected._


----------



## Unkotare (Jul 25, 2012)




----------



## westwall (Jul 25, 2012)

Unkotare said:


>







That's why we don't feed the troll.


----------



## bripat9643 (Jul 26, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> Multiple differant kinds of proxies from many studies have all supported Mann's graph. Simple fact.



You mean multiple studies used the same methodology as Mann's study and therefore included the same errors as Mann's study.  All the studies you refer to have been debunked by Mckyntire at ClimateAudit.com


----------



## Old Rocks (Jul 26, 2012)

No, Pattycake, not the same data or methodologies.


----------



## Old Rocks (Jul 26, 2012)

The Hockey Stick is Accurate « Oxford Kevin


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jul 26, 2012)

How come there's no "Global Warming" today in NY?

Jeez. Did it move with the Jet Stream?


----------



## polarbear (Jul 26, 2012)

CrusaderFrank said:


> How come there's no "Global Warming" today in NY?
> 
> Jeez. Did it move with the Jet Stream?


 What kind of answer can You expect from an idiot like that:


Old Rocks said:


> The Hockey Stick is Accurate « Oxford Kevin





> The paper Global-scale temperature patterns and climate forcing over the past six centuries by Mann, Bradley and Hughes published in 1998 (MBH 98) brought together in one study a lot of material from ice cores, tree rings and corals and produced the first version of the Hockey Stick graph.


Really ...???
Take a look at the document they submitted:


> Trick
> 57. In his submission, Peter Taylor, author of Chill,81 states that:
> The tree ring data did not match the model expectation (ie the hockey stick pattern of a sudden rise at the end of the period). Rather than admit this, the team-workers discuss using Michael Manns trick of replacing the offending tree-ring data and using instrumental data in its place in a spliced graph.82 58. UEA interpreted the use of the word trick differently:
> as for the (now notorious) *word trick,* so deeply appealing to the media, this has been richly misinterpreted and quoted out of context. _It was used in an informal email, discussing the difficulties of statistical presentation.__it is used in the informal sense of the best way of doing something. _ It does _not mean a ruse or method of deception. _In context it is obvious that In *this case it was the trick or knack of constructing a statistical illustration *which would combine the most reliable proxy and instrumental evidence of temperature trends.
> ...


And who is "Lord Lawson" of Blabbermouth..?...:


> Rt Hon Lord Lawson of Blaby, Chairman, and Dr Benny Peiser, Director, Global Warming Policy Foundation;


The only idiots who still accept the hockey stick are the ones who`ve been whacked over the head by Lord Blabbermouth`s stupid stick.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jul 26, 2012)

See the Global warming?  It's right there under my pinkie!


----------



## bobgnote (Jul 26, 2012)

_When you are a RightWingFaggotThatShovesClausesTogether, you are trying, to imitate fast-talking Zionist Jews, from Yew Nork or LA.  Come on!  Jews are smarter, than you RWFs.  You know it, so you are conspiring, against English usages, which are too hard, for you retards, to master.

And then, along comes black Obamney, and he imitates guys, like Al Gore, so his January 2008 interview, with the SF Chronicle advocates cap-and-trade, while admitting, how "my policy will increase energy prices."  What an ASSHOLE, folks!

No wonder President black Obamney never really produced an ENERGY POLICY.

There aren't enough resources, in the economic or funding systems, so DDD-rats are hedging, against a day, coming, in November 2012, when the US budget fails.  But all they are doing is screwing around, with restrictions and delays.  That's DDD-rats!

The DDD-rats have to cut Israel and the drug war, and they are too owned, by AIPAC, oil, coal, and Republicans, to make the cuts.

Black Obamney imitates Al Gore and Bill Clinton.  He'd like to end up, selling books and lectures, to DDDs, like Clinton does this.  So black Obamney ups cap-and-trade, without ending the drug war OR getting CO2-neutral biomass research, in good order, FIRST, but hey!  Black Obamney is an ATTORNEY.  

But then, black Obamney cuts loose, from trying to give Gitmo, back to Cuba, he copies white Obamneycare, he kills with drones, he busts pot clubs, he signs the NDAA, his ATF copies Republican sting ops, like Op.Wide Receiver and Project Gunrunner, to do Op.FF, so what happens?  This fucks up, so black Obamney has to copy Nixon, to stonewall, with white Obamney.

Black Obamney is stonewalling climate change, since 2008, Congress, since 2012, re Op.FF, and the Bradley Manning defense, since 2010 or so.

White Obamney is stonewalling, about Mormonism, Bullygate, and Bain.  I guess we get to see his bitchin' report cards.  He is SO SMART, he wants alll the votes he can get, from RightWingFaggotsThatShoveClausesTogether.

But black Obamney also wants THOSE votes, since if he blows off smart people, and he chases votes, from DDDs and Republicans, the DDD-rats can set up a lot of media gridlocks and boondoggles.  

People who might vote for black Obamney aren't good enough, for black Obamney.  So he keeps sucking, like it's trucking.  No, black Obamney, sucking is not TRUCKING_.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jul 26, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> _When you are a RightWingFaggotThatShovesClausesTogether, you are trying, to imitate fast-talking Zionist Jews, from Yew Nork or LA.  Come on!  Jews are smarter, than you RWFs.  You know it, so you are conspiring, against English usages, which are too hard, for you retards, to master.
> 
> And then, along comes black Obamney, and he imitates guys, like Al Gore, so his January 2008 interview, with the SF Chronicle advocates cap-and-trade, while admitting, how "my policy will increase energy prices."  What an ASSHOLE, folks!
> 
> ...



And that is why my Ignore list is vacant.

Can you imagine missing that?!  That's the Liberal Intellectual Elite talking


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## westwall (Jul 26, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...







Really?  Present them.  Mullers analysis certainly doesn't.


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## westwall (Jul 26, 2012)

CrusaderFrank said:


> bobgnote said:
> 
> 
> > _When you are a RightWingFaggotThatShovesClausesTogether, you are trying, to imitate fast-talking Zionist Jews, from Yew Nork or LA.  Come on!  Jews are smarter, than you RWFs.  You know it, so you are conspiring, against English usages, which are too hard, for you retards, to master.
> ...







No, that's a brainless dilfod talking.


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## bobgnote (Jul 26, 2012)

_*Wally*, we have to Jew those ANIMALS!  Hurry!  Don't be waiting eight lines, to get'r'done; we need you to get Jewing some animals, before everybody realizes they don't really use chainsaws.

Here, *Wallybitch*!  It's Animal Global Warming:_







_BAD kitty!  The next thing this fucker will make will be a hockey stick._







_Time for us to have-a-tequila and blame some animals, right, *Wally*?_







_Those Chinese animals all went to CAL or UCLA, out in Cali, so we can get to know some of them, but I bet they won't want us screwing around, with Israel, Wally, so something has to happen, and it's ANIMAL GLOBAL WARMING.  Start Jewing them down, today, or tomorrow, they'll be Palis._


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## TakeAStepBack (Jul 26, 2012)

Bob, why are you still here, bob?

I thought you were going to save the planet?


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## Trakar (Jul 26, 2012)

flacaltenn said:


> Out of the 1200 tornadoes reported in 2011 ---- these few storms account for the vast majority of the cost and injuries.. And there hasn't been a targeted assault on populated areas like this in one year in recorded weather history...


 
Increase the intensity and number of storms, and you decrease the odds of storms striking densely populated areas and doing lots of damage. 

As for whether or not we can lay any particular storm or even storm season solely at the feet of climate change, I would argue against that practice. Much as with hurricanes and other major weather events there are simply too many variables in any given system to say compellingly that it is primarily due to the effects and impacts of any one particular variable. That said, we are beginning to see an apparent piling up of such extreme weather events, and this piling up is consistent with climate change projections and understandings. It will be another decade or so before I would be confident in our our retrospective abilities to properly evaluate the current decade, where we can look back at averaged trending and see how well the projected and the observed match up over the current decade.

As for the connection with climate change:

"A decade of weather extremes" - http://sciences.blogs.liberation.fr/files/10-ans-dextremes-climatiques.pdf

"[FONT=AdvTT2cba4af3.B][FONT=AdvTT2cba4af3.B]Transient response of severe thunderstorm forcing to elevated greenhouse gas concentrations" - http://www.eas.purdue.edu/earthsystem/Trapp_GRL_09.pdf[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=AdvTT2cba4af3.B][FONT=AdvTT2cba4af3.B][/FONT][/FONT] 
[FONT=AdvTT2cba4af3.B][FONT=AdvTT2cba4af3.B]http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/cas/Trenberth/Presentations/extremesCAT_web.pdf[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=AdvTT2cba4af3.B][FONT=AdvTT2cba4af3.B][/FONT][/FONT] 
[FONT=AdvTT2cba4af3.B][FONT=AdvTT2cba4af3.B] 
[/FONT][/FONT]


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## CrusaderFrank (Jul 26, 2012)

Trakar said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Out of the 1200 tornadoes reported in 2011 ---- these few storms account for the vast majority of the cost and injuries.. And there hasn't been a targeted assault on populated areas like this in one year in recorded weather history...
> ...



"...there are simply too many variables in any given system to say compellingly that it is primarily due to the effects and impacts of any one particular variable..."

the first honest statement to ever spring forth from a member of Al Gore's AGW Cult.

but then it degrades into this:

there are simply too many variables in any given system to say compellingly that it is primarily due to the effects and impacts of any one particular variable, but all we know for certain is that a wisp of CO2 is melting the ice caps, turning the oceans acidic and creating a record number of storms


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## TakeAStepBack (Jul 26, 2012)

What's the matter, Frank? Is the doublespeak dizzying?


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## westwall (Jul 26, 2012)

Trakar said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Out of the 1200 tornadoes reported in 2011 ---- these few storms account for the vast majority of the cost and injuries.. And there hasn't been a targeted assault on populated areas like this in one year in recorded weather history...
> ...







The problem trakar is there has been no increase in either quantity or intensity of storms.
The worst storms in European history occured in the 1600's, look up The Great Drowning of Men as an example.  I can't seem to recall 30,000 Europeans dying in a flood in recent memory.

Your selective sampling while amusing is also quite pathetic.  You make claims of all these increased storms and yet when one looks at the historical record one finds that the storms today are no different than those of the past.....not in the least.  There's just a hell of a lot more people to be affected by them.

Correlation doesn't equal causation no matter how hard you try to make it so.


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## bobgnote (Jul 26, 2012)

TakeAStepBack said:


> Bob, why are you still here, bob?
> 
> I thought you were going to save the planet?



_You don't have to say my name twice, fucktard.  I'll reply.  I don't even put fucktards on ignore, since that isn't why we post, at USMB.

Meanwhile, anybody who saves the planet will be lucky, I think.  Don't you worry.  By the time somebody might make a move, maybe I will have something to do with it.

But in the meantime, I'm dialing in all kinds of fucktards.  Glad you could make it, *TASIYHat.*  Some of us need to know, why fucktards are trying to take out DOD, Navy, and CIA fuinding, for climate change strategy.  Seditious bitches are about.

What are you doing, back at an environment thread?  Did the nice people kick you out, of wherever you were trying to hang out?_


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## flacaltenn (Jul 26, 2012)

There isn't even a WAY to compare number and severity of tornadoes over a historical scale.. 

The doppler radar (NextRad and others that I helped design) didn't exist prior to 1980 and weren't completely fielded until the mid-90s. NOW -- the number of tornadoes GOES UP simply because we can see a complete track better. And a separate tornado event is declared for EACH TOUCHDOWN. 

NOTHING like that is available to accurately and SIMILIARLY quantify historical numbers.. Same with Intensity.. So --- while you're stretching to make your dire predictions based on TODAY'S weather, your historical comparisons for tornadoes and severe storms are NOT gonna have accurate data.. 

Knock yourself out  and buy the Red Bull in cases...


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## bobgnote (Jul 26, 2012)

westwall said:


> The problem trakar is there has been no increase in either quantity or intensity of storms.
> 
> The worst storms in European history occured in the 1600's, look up The Great Drowning of Men as an example.  I can't seem to recall 30,000 Europeans dying in a flood in recent memory.
> 
> ...



_Gosh, no, *Wally*!  Just because the TSI is down, and melt is record-breaking, and temperatures are UP, I suppose we should Jew the GREENHOUSE EFFECT all to crap, just to be like that.

Just because some atmospheric molecules have three or more atoms doesn't equal causation, if there is some kind of *wall*, between known circumstances and logically expected outcomes.

Let's call it *WALLY*, just to be familiar.  Then we can Jew it around, all night and day._


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## westwall (Jul 26, 2012)

Trakar said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Out of the 1200 tornadoes reported in 2011 ---- these few storms account for the vast majority of the cost and injuries.. And there hasn't been a targeted assault on populated areas like this in one year in recorded weather history...
> ...








Looks like the tornadoes are not following your claims........You would think that you guys could at least get ONE prediction correct but as usual, you can't even do that.  Flipping a coin will give you better results than your models....pathetic..


"Bob Henson | July 24, 2012 &#8226; Heat and drought are punishing much of the United States right now, but there&#8217;s actually some good weather news to report. This month is on track to produce fewer tornadoes than any July on record, and by a long shot.

As of July 23, this month has produced a paltry total of 14 tornado reports, according to preliminary data from NOAA&#8217;s Storm Prediction Center (SPC). While there could be more twisters before month&#8217;s end, a major outbreak doesn&#8217;t appear likely at all.

The chart below shows just how unusual this month has been, compared to past Julys. Graphed in blue are the final July tornado counts from the 1950s (when modern records began) to 2011. The next-most-quiet July after 2012 is 1960, which saw a total of 42 tornadoes&#8212;three times what we&#8217;ve seen thus far this month. Many Julys have produced more than 100 twisters."


Summertime, and the twisters are missin' | UCAR


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## bobgnote (Jul 26, 2012)

_Tornado outbreaks may happen, during either El Nino or La Nina, but severe outbreaks tend to happen, during La Nina.  The jet stream will play this, in the same way El Nino jet streams tend to fend off Atlantic hurricanes.

An El Nino is on the way, so we will likely get a big cup of mud, for Winter, 2012-13._














Climatic conditions in North Carolina during La Niña conditions tend to be opposite those seen during El Niño events, including an increase in the number of tropical cyclones that develop in the North Atlantic Ocean.

The State Climate Office has also studied the relationship between severe weather, such as tornadoes, and El Niño / La Niña. In North Carolina, it appears that there are more tornadoes during La Niña events.

---------------------

CPC - Climate Weather Linkage: El Niño Southern Oscillation


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## bobgnote (Jul 26, 2012)

_Hey, if you want some tornadoes, *Wally*, you'll just have to wait, until some kind of high/low temperature and pressure gradients are available.

If there is nothing but HEAT, cyclonic storms won't form as well.  

One spate of hail, to Dorothy, and off the foundation comes that old house.  But not yet._


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## TakeAStepBack (Jul 26, 2012)

Nice work, bob. You spent two posts telling us nothing. Thanks.

By the way, is your sacrifice for the planet scheduled any time soon? Or are you just pissing up a rope with all this doom talk?


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## flacaltenn (Jul 26, 2012)

TakeAStepBack said:


> Nice work, bob. You spent two posts telling us nothing. Thanks.
> 
> By the way, is your sacrifice for the planet scheduled any time soon? Or are you just pissing up a rope with all this doom talk?



Can't see what he's on about now -- but he must be sharing survival rations with Ole Rocks because BOTH of them are on the edge of their seats rooting for man to get punished by Gaia. Are all warmers this anxious for PROOF of their beliefs? Do they think that 1w/sqm increase in heating means ANYTHING to a cumulo-nimbus?


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## westwall (Jul 26, 2012)

TakeAStepBack said:


> Nice work, bob. You spent two posts telling us nothing. Thanks.
> 
> By the way, is your sacrifice for the planet scheduled any time soon? Or are you just pissing up a rope with all this doom talk?







Oh, don't expect too much from babaganoosh.  I would be astounded if he posessed more than two operable brain cells.  And don't expect him to do the right thing....collectivists never do that.  They think they're special...it's the other guy who has to kill himself so they can benefit from that poor guys sacrafice.  They're all a bunch of losers.


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## bobgnote (Jul 27, 2012)

TakeAStepBack said:


> Nice work, bob. You spent two posts telling us nothing. Thanks.
> 
> By the way, is your sacrifice for the planet scheduled any time soon? Or are you just pissing up a rope with all this doom talk?



_Oh, excuse me, *TakeAShitInYerHat*, I posted some links and graphs and a reply, to *Wally*.  Is that OK with you?

I know you are a FAGGOT, so you didn't read anything, in my posts, since there wasn't anything about you, eating shit or sucking dicks, in heavy traffic.

You really are that homeless-looking retard, in your avatar, aren't you.  If I rolled a quarter into the street, would you run after it?_


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## westwall (Jul 27, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> TakeAStepBack said:
> 
> 
> > Nice work, bob. You spent two posts telling us nothing. Thanks.
> ...








You, have a quarter?  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!  In your dreams you have that much in hand you poor silly person!  In your dreams!


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## RollingThunder (Jul 28, 2012)

TakeAStepBack said:


> Nice work, bob. You spent two posts telling us nothing. Thanks.
> 
> By the way, is your sacrifice for the planet scheduled any time soon? Or are you just pissing up a rope with all this doom talk?



Actually he presented quite a bit of good, scientific information but you and the other denier cultists are just too freaking retarded to comprehend anything that complicated. Stick to your comic books and rightwingnut fairy tales, you poor cretin.


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## RollingThunder (Jul 28, 2012)

westwall said:


> bobgnote said:
> 
> 
> > TakeAStepBack said:
> ...


WOW, walleyedretard, you win first prize (again) for the stupidest, most irrelevant post of the day. Congratulations, dimwit.


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## flacaltenn (Jul 28, 2012)

RollingThunder said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > bobgnote said:
> ...



You just here for the gnome thrashing? Or you have a opinion?


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## westwall (Jul 28, 2012)

flacaltenn said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...







One must have a brain to have an opinion.  Blunder lacks the former, ergo, his opinions don't matter.


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## RollingThunder (Jul 29, 2012)

westwall said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



Actually, fecalton, it is more like troll bashing than gnome bashing. The walleyedretard is one of the most obvious of the paid trolls on here. You, on the other hand, just seem like a garden variety ignorant retard. It is always amusing to hear the walleyedretard talk about "brains" since he so obviously lacks a functional one.


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## flacaltenn (Jul 29, 2012)

RollingThunder said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...



I'll take that as a "no -- i have no opinion on the topic"..


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## RollingThunder (Jul 29, 2012)

flacaltenn said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



But you only "_take that_" as a negative because you're a flaming retard. I obviously think 'global warming' (the "_topic_") is quite real and a major threat to our civilization and the Earth's ecosystems. Also, fecalton, you have "_opinions_" (mostly ignorant and wrong) and I have scientific facts, a distinction that you're obviously also too retarded to comprehend.


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## flacaltenn (Jul 29, 2012)

RollingThunder said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



Then what are you doing in a thread discussing new tree ring studies that contradict your famous "Briffa Hockey Stick"? Believe that's bunk? Wanna nag me about the weather? Dont believe in the Medieval Warm Period? Ya know -- most of your warmer pals are very UNscientifically trying to make the case that Tornadoes have gotten smarter and found city centers because of 1 degree of Global Warming. You condone that? Or that the MWP wasn't GLOBAL -- so it doesn't count -- but a drought in the US MIDWEST ---- Now that's all scientific and GLOBAL.. 

Get off your pedestal. Intimidation doesn't work on folks who've worked to understand the debate.


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## RollingThunder (Jul 29, 2012)

flacaltenn said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...


The topic of the thread is 'global warming', you crazy nitwit. Of course, the OP is garbage based on another denier cultist's stupidity and inability to comprehend the science but that is common to most threads started by deniers.





flacaltenn said:


> Believe that's bunk? Wanna nag me about the weather? Dont believe in the Medieval Warm Period? Ya know -- most of your warmer pals are very UNscientifically trying to make the case that Tornadoes have gotten smarter and found city centers because of 1 degree of Global Warming. You condone that? Or that the MWP wasn't GLOBAL -- so it doesn't count -- but a drought in the US MIDWEST ---- Now that's all scientific and GLOBAL..


Hard to respond to confused and idiotic twaddle like that. Except to once again remind you that you a confused and clueless retard filled with propaganda, lies and misinformation.







flacaltenn said:


> Get off your pedestal. Intimidation doesn't work on folks who've worked to understand the debate.


LOLOLOL....too bad you're obviously too freaking stupid to understand the debate, no matter how hard you "_work_" at it.


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## flacaltenn (Jul 29, 2012)

RollingThunder said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



Did you even READ the OP??? Tell me how the researchers on this work are all "stupid cult deniers again".. I love that part.. Have your Mom read it to ya.. Maybe there will be some pictures.. 

I get you M.O. now.. Read the Title of the Thread -- skip the OP, sling some shit.. The OP is about CORRECTING (as best as possible with the evidence) the tree ring studies that were RIGGED to leave out the MWPeriod. Need some help with that concept?

You didn't answer a SINGLE question of mine.. So I'll take that as another NO -- you're not here to debate or discuss. Just to mug people and call names..


----------



## Old Rocks (Jul 29, 2012)

*Now Flatulance, there have been studies using proxies from coral, sea bottom sediments, ice cores from Greenland and Anarctica, as well as other glaciers from around the world, and they have all confirmed the lumpy hockey stick.* 

Geological Society - June 2012

ny geologists recall that Britain&#8217;s eminent climatologist, H.H. Lamb, documented a European medieval climatic optimum in which temperatures between 400 and 1200 AD were warmer than those of the 1960s to 1980&#8217;s. What they fail to recall is that Lamb also showed that China and Japan missed this warm phase (Climate, History and the Modern World, 1995, p. 171).

 Michael Mann has inherited Lamb&#8217;s mantle. Mann uses proxy measurements of northern hemisphere climate extracted from tree rings, ice cores, corals and sediment cores to identify natural variations in the climate system (e.g. Nature 378, 1995, 266-270). By 1999, Mann and his team discovered from palaeoclimate analyses that the extent of medieval warming was likely about the same as it was in the mid 20th century, and much less than that since 1970. The data followed a curve reminiscent of a &#8216;hockey stick&#8217;. If Lamb had added his Chinese data to his UK data he might have got a similar result.

 The &#8216;hockey stick&#8217; was anathema to those who wanted ardently to believe that late 20th century warming was not anomalous and had nothing to do with our emissions of CO2. Controversy followed from the global warming nay-saying community, not least through A W Montford&#8217;s 2010 attack on Mann in The Hockey Stick Illusion. In the meantime, several peer-reviewed scientific studies by different authors have confirmed Mann&#8217;s original &#8216;hockey stick&#8217; as being in the right ballpark, strongly suggesting that grounds for his impeachment are non-existent. Indeed, he was cleared of any wrongdoing by in-depth studies of his work by expert panels from the National Academy of Sciences (North, G.R., et al., 2006, Surface temperature reconstructions for the past 2000 years; National Academies Press, Washington DC), from his own university - Penn State, and from the US National Science Foundation. Like it or not, Mann remains a pioneer in analysing proxy records of climate change covering the past 1000 years, and one of the foremost young palaeoclimatologists of our time.


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## flacaltenn (Jul 29, 2012)

Now this is new low --- even for you Roxy.. I'd actually neg you -- but I feel sorry for you... 

You're posting an F'ING BOOK REVIEW from the Geo Society website so that it LOOKS like legit debate.. 

But damn it OleFraud (and now you deserve this) --- It's a review of

MICHAEL MANN'S BOOK????  

defending his own SORRY ASS? Seriously man -- take a cruise. Get a hobby. You're losing it..


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## westwall (Jul 29, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> *Now Flatulance, there have been studies using proxies from coral, sea bottom sediments, ice cores from Greenland and Anarctica, as well as other glaciers from around the world, and they have all confirmed the lumpy hockey stick.*
> 
> Geological Society - June 2012
> 
> ...







What you and yours ignore is that newer studies have found the MWP in China, and Antarctica, and Australia, and teh Sierra Nevada mountains, and South America, and well quite simply everywhere it has been seriously looked for it has been found.

You all seem to ignore that simple fact.   Wonder why


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## RollingThunder (Jul 29, 2012)

flacaltenn said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...


The OP was two lines of idiotic denier cult drivel, moron. Of course I read the article the OP linked to and it was about some studies of tree rings from some trees in Finland, right on the Arctic Circle. Since the Arctic regions tend to get warmer than the rest of the Northern Hemisphere during warm periods, as is being demonstrated now with Arctic temperatures rising faster and further than the rest of the world, it is not too surprising that tree ring data from that very localized region might show higher temperatures than what all of the other studies of many kinds of proxies, not just tree rings, have shown to be the generally slightly higher temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere during the MWP. So what? It clearly does not mean what the denier cultists at the Mail claimed it meant in their fraudulent headline. Nor does it mean what the overly ambitious lead researcher seems to want to believe it means. Results from one little area of Finland do not overturn or contradict the results of all of the other research done on temperature variations during the MWP.



flacaltenn said:


> Tell me how the researchers on this work are all "stupid cult deniers again"..


It is only because you are such a clueless retard who can't understand plain English that you would ask that. The "stupid denier cultists" I was clearly referring to are firstly, the reporter at the Mail who spun up that article and then secondly, you and that cretin, HereIGoMakingAFoolOutOfMyself, who started the thread - plus, of course, the walleyedretard and the kookster and all of the other denier cult retards who buy into this nonsense and propaganda without actually understanding anything about the scientific research that has been done..








flacaltenn said:


> I get you M.O. now.. Read the Title of the Thread -- skip the OP, sling some shit..


OK, little retard, if you read the OP's linked article, how it that you missed the part about the research being based *only* on some tree ring samples from Finland?







flacaltenn said:


> The OP is about CORRECTING (as best as possible with the evidence) the tree ring studies that were RIGGED to leave out the MWPeriod. Need some help with that concept?


Total nonsense. The article the OP links to is a spun up piece of idiotic propaganda, purporting with its fraudulent headline to mean something it doesn't. It is about a very limited study of some tree ring data from one small, small area of far northern Europe and it actually has no new data about world wide temperatures during the MWP.






flacaltenn said:


> You didn't answer a SINGLE question of mine.. So I'll take that as another NO -- you're not here to debate or discuss. Just to mug people and call names..



I'm not here to answer your questions, nitwit. I'm here to debunk your BS, which I have done pretty consistently whenever we have debated. Your moronic "_questions_" just reflect your ignorance and total misunderstanding of this issue.

As always, the disingenuous and contradictory claims of the confused denier cultists are amusing to watch. Most of the deniers will claim that the world has been warming up since the end of the last ice age and that's why temperatures are still going up but this article in the OP specifically states that the evidence that the researchers uncovered shows that generally the "*world has been cooling for 2,000 years*". Denier cultists can embrace both concepts at the same time without any cognitive dissonance only because they are such retards with little pea brains. LOLOLOL.


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## Bigfoot (Jul 29, 2012)

Mann's chart is dead and buried, exactly where it belongs. He's a fraud.


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## RollingThunder (Jul 30, 2012)

Bigfoot said:


> Mann's chart is dead and buried, exactly where it belongs. He's a fraud.



That's a silly delusion that you've been bamboozled into believing but it really has nothing to do with reality. Dr. Mann is an eminent scientist, honored by his peers and the world scientific community for his work. The hockey stick graph has been independently verified many times by many other researchers using a wide variety of proxies and a number of different statistical techniques. In fact, further research has extended the graph so that now it is apparent to scientists that the current average world temperatures are not just warmer than they have ever been in the last thousand years, as the original hockey stick graph showed, current temperatures are warmer than they have been in at least the last two thousand years and there are some indications that it may be warmer now on Earth than it has been for the last 100,000 years, since a time during the interglacial period preceding the last ice age.

You've been duped into believing a lot of lies and misinformation by the propaganda campaign that the fossil fuel industry has mounted in an attempt to confuse the public and delay any effective governmental actions to limit carbon dioxide emissions (which would hurt their profits). Part of that propaganda campaign has been attempts to smear and discredit both climate science and climate scientists. You've fallen for some stupid lies that have no real basis in reality. You only think they do because you've had your head jammed into this stupid rightwingnut/denier cult/corporate-controlled-media echo-chamber*, where everyone repeats the same BS and lies endlessly until you all falsely believe that nonsense is true. It's called brainwashing and you've had it done to you. Of course, part of the brainwashing is brainwashing you into imagining that you're not brainwashed so you're not going to believe me about this point. However, there is a great deal of objective, scientific evidence about anthropogenic global warming/climate changes available from reputable sources so if you ever manage to jerk your head out of FauxNews's butthole* and honestly look at the scientific evidence for yourself, maybe you can get back in touch with reality instead of living in a fantasy world of denial. The really inconvenient truth of our situation is that we're sitting here in a rapidly warming world and we (the human race) caused it. The only good news in that is that, knowing how we've caused it, we can take steps to stop doing damage to the natural balance and do things to help the situation. Efforts in that direction are being stymied by those with a vested interest in the continued massive worldwide consumption of oil, coal and natural gas. You have been 'drafted', thru this insidious propaganda campaign, into being their "useful idiot" foot soldier and helping to spread their lies, propaganda and misinformation. Or, another possibility, you're just a paid agent of disinformation, collecting some money from some Exxon slushfund or from the Koch brothers or someone similar to push their denier cult myths and lies. I hope you're not that evil but rather just a confused and misinformed dupe.


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## IanC (Jul 30, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> *Now Flatulance, there have been studies using proxies from coral, sea bottom sediments, ice cores from Greenland and Anarctica, as well as other glaciers from around the world, and they have all confirmed the lumpy hockey stick.*
> 
> Geological Society - June 2012
> 
> ...



you just dont get it. you are incapable of comprehending. it doesnt matter if Mann got it exactly right (but he didnt) but used incorrect methods. his methods are wrong, he distains proper scientific practise, his ethics are corrupt, and he acts like a spoiled child when he doesnt get his way.


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## IanC (Jul 30, 2012)

another review of Mann's book-

1.0 out of 5 stars A Tale of Two Hockey Stick War Books, March 11, 2012 
By Robert Tamaki (Vancouver, BC) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)    Amazon Verified Purchase(What's this?) 
This review is from: The Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars: Dispatches from the Front Lines (Kindle Edition) 
For those who are familiar with the various contours of the Hockey Stick debate over the past nine years, there is only one thing that needs to be said in this review: the name 'Montford' does not appear anywhere in Mann's book - not in the main body, not in the footnotes, and not in the index.

For those who haven't a clue what I am talking about, I am referring to the book by Andrew Montford, "The Hockey Stick Illusion" (HSI). Montford's work presents the alternative perspective on the so-called Hockey Stick War, a work that came out in the wake of Climategate 1. He carefully and extensively documents all of the minutiae of the hockey stick debate, including detailed, but fully readable, explanations of the controversial scientific and statistical points, the twists and turns of the publishing and peer review processes, the outcomes of the congressional hearings, the manipulations of the IPCC process, and the discoveries of undisclosed problems with successive "hockey stick" studies. Overall, the book is a damning indictment of Mann's scientific method and his maneuvers to try to cover over his errors. For Mann to completely omit any mention of this book is a telling admission that he does not want his readers to hear "the other side" of the story.

This omission is a characteristic of the book as a whole. Rather than responding in a meaningful way to the significant and documented criticisms that have been raised by many, he fills his book with a lot of bluster, hand-waving, and accusations that his opponents are simply 'corporate/industry/fossil fuel/-funded, well-organized deniers, who have been thoroughly discredited.' Of course, he provides scant evidence to substantiate these accusations, particularly with respect to his most prominent detractor, Steve McIntyre. But the rhetorical effect is very powerful, and it no doubt persuades many (as evidenced by the number of 5 star reviews here).

One hears repeatedly that Mann's work was vindicated by the NAS study - a point that Mann relies upon in his book. However, those who have actually read the NAS study, and those who have actually read or listened to the House Energy and Commerce Committee hearings realize that Mann's methods were thoroughly repudiated by both Wegman AND the NAS panel. Under sworn testimony, Gerald North, chair of the NAS panel, was asked if he disputed the conclusions or the methodology of the Wegman's report. He responded, "No, we don't. We don't disagree with their criticism. In fact, pretty much the same thing is said in our report." Yet, Mann is somehow able to conclude that "In the end, the conventional wisdom was that Barton and gang fared poorly in the two days of hearings that summer" (Locations 3461-3462). This statement can only be supported if you assume that Mann is the sole possessor of "conventional wisdom."

_There have been two primary criticisms (and dozens of secondary ones) leveled against Mann's hockey stick reconstruction: questionable statistical methods, e.g. incorrect PC analysis and poor validation statistics; and the reliability of tree rings as temperature proxies (bristlecones and foxtails in particular). However, Mann completely omits discussion of any criticisms of tree rings as a temperature proxy until he begins discussion of his 2008 paper. This in spite of the fact that he had just finished discussing the Loehle 2007 paper, which was explicitly conducted with a view to create a millennial scale temperature reconstruction without using tree rings. Nevertheless, he is constrained to begrudgingly address these criticisms because his 2008 paper was written ostensibly to demonstrate that the hockey stick is preserved without the use of tree rings. Nevertheless, amongst the many problems with this study (e.g., the use of upside-down contaminated sediment records, data infilling, truncated divergent series), the most striking was that the reconstruction only yielded a hockey stick if either bristlecones were included OR the contaminated, upside-down Tiljander sediment record was included. Take both of these out, and the hockey stick disappears! Mann 'forgets' to mention this part of the story, even though he eventually admits this in the Supplementary Information to the paper.

Mann's discussion of the Yamal tree ring record of Briffa is equally intriguing. This proxy series from the northern Russian peninsula of the same name was one of the dominant hockey stick-shaped series used in multiple temperature reconstructions. The raw data for this series had been withheld by Briffa until late in 2009, when he was forced by the journal Phil Trans B to archive his data (after 9 years). With the release of this data, McIntyre quickly realized that the sharp upward trend of the late 20th C was the result of a mere 10 cores in 1990, dropping to 5 in 1995. Moreover, amongst that paltry few, a single tree (YAD06) with an 8 sigma 20th C deviation was shown to be almost solely responsible for the Yamal hockey stick shape.

Of course, Mann neglects to share this tidbit of information in his discussion of Yamal. However, he does make a most remarkable statement, claiming that "Most climate reconstructions either didn't use the Yamal series in question anyway", for which he adds the end note: "This includes the hockey stick itself" (Kindle Locations 3944-3945). This is a starkly disingenuous comment. Both MBH98 and MBH99 pre-date the publishing of Yamal in Briffa 2000 and thus it was unavailable to the hockey stick. More than that, Yamal appears in no less than 10 of the so-called "independent" reconstructions that supposedly "confirm" the hockey stick, of which 5 are included in the IPCC AR4 Spaghetti graph (Mann's Figure 12.1). Most egregious, though, is that Mann himself uses Yamal in Mann and Jones 2003, Mann et al (EOS 2003) and Jones & Mann 2004. Hardly insignificant._

There are many more problems with Mann's work, which can't possibly be fully explored here. His discussion of Climategate deserves many pages of comment for the ways that he sidesteps the most troubling aspects of the whole affair. There are stories of imaginary spreadsheets, incorrect use of statistical terminology (i.e., "censored"), self-contradiction, allegations of criminal misconduct, manipulation of IPCC reviews, the Wahl & Ammann study and much more.

So if you are interested in the history of the hockey stick, do yourself a favor. By all means read Mann's story. But read the "Hockey Stick Illusion" as a companion book - and then you decide which account is more credible.


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## RollingThunder (Jul 30, 2012)

IanC said:


> another review of Mann's book-
> 
> 1.0 out of 5 stars A Tale of Two Hockey Stick War Books, March 11, 2012
> By Robert Tamaki (Vancouver, BC) - See all my reviews
> ...



ROTFLMAO......a review of Dr. Mann's book by a random, unknown, unqualified reader on Amazon.....LOLOLOLOLOL.....how desperate can you get???....do you have any other straws you'd like to grasp at???

A review filled, as most denier rants are, with misinformation and debunked propaganda memes.

The study he refers to by Wegman was retracted by the journal that published it and many scientists have pointed out very serious flaws in Wegman's work.

*Wegman scandal rocks cornerstone of climate denial*

The National Research Council of the National Academies of Science issued a report in 2006 on Dr. Mann's hockey stick graph and they did not, as this idiot claims, "_repudiate_" Dr. Mann's methods. *Here* is the link to the NRC's news release on the report and here are some excerpts from that release.

*"There is sufficient evidence from tree rings, boreholes, retreating glaciers, and other "proxies" of past surface temperatures to say with a high level of confidence that the last few decades of the 20th century were warmer than any comparable period in the last 400 years, according to a new report from the National Research Council.  Less confidence can be placed in proxy-based reconstructions of surface temperatures for A.D. 900 to 1600, said the committee that wrote the report, although the available proxy evidence does indicate that many locations were warmer during the past 25 years than during any other 25-year period since 900.

The Research Council committee found the Mann team's conclusion that warming in the last few decades of the 20th century was unprecedented over the last thousand years to be plausible, but it had less confidence that the warming was unprecedented prior to 1600; fewer proxies -- in fewer locations -- provide temperatures for periods before then. The committee noted that scientists' reconstructions of Northern Hemisphere surface temperatures for the past thousand years are generally consistent. The reconstructions show relatively warm conditions centered around the year 1000, and a relatively cold period, or "Little Ice Age," from roughly 1500 to 1850.  The exact timing of warm episodes in the medieval period may have varied by region, and the magnitude and geographical extent of the warmth is uncertain, the committee said.  None of the reconstructions indicates that temperatures were warmer during medieval times than during the past few decades, the committee added. The scarcity of precisely dated proxy evidence for temperatures before 1600, especially in the Southern Hemisphere, is the main reason there is less confidence in global reconstructions dating back further than that.  

The committee pointed out that surface temperature reconstructions for periods before the Industrial Revolution -- when levels of atmospheric greenhouse gases were much lower -- are only one of multiple lines of evidence supporting the conclusion that current warming is occurring in response to human activities, and they are not the primary evidence."*​


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## flacaltenn (Jul 30, 2012)

RollingThunder said:


> IanC said:
> 
> 
> > another review of Mann's book-
> ...



Lemme see.. Do I believe NBC news or Dr. Muller the lead investigator on the BEST study? 

Hmmmm.. 


This is stolen from Daveman on another thread that he posted yesterday.. 



> Really?
> In a 2004 Technology Review article,[9] *Muller supported the findings of Stephen McIntyre and Ross McKitrick in which they criticized the research, led by Michael E. Mann, which produced the so-called "hockey stick graph" of global temperatures over the past millennium, on the grounds that it did not do proper principal component analysis (PCA).[10] In the article, Richard Muller stated:*McIntyre and McKitrick obtained part of the program that Mann used, and they found serious problems. Not only does the program not do conventional PCA, but it handles data normalization in a way that can only be described as mistaken.
> 
> Now comes the real shocker. This improper normalization procedure tends to emphasize any data that do have the hockey stick shape, and to suppress all data that do not. To demonstrate this effect, McIntyre and McKitrick created some meaningless test data that had, on average, no trends. This method of generating random data is called "Monte Carlo" analysis, after the famous casino, and it is widely used in statistical analysis to test procedures. When McIntyre and McKitrick fed these random data into the Mann procedure, out popped a hockey stick shape!
> ...



 You're not following along or your sources are too juvenile.. Which is it?


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## flacaltenn (Jul 30, 2012)

RollingThunder said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > RollingThunder said:
> ...



Actually Princess the only thing you've won in this forum is that fake tiera on your head which for some odd reason you proudly wear.. 
MAYBE IT DOES take a "denier cultist" to figure out that when you go from a MWP to an ICE AGE that there COULD be a "general cooling trend" between the two events because you obviously can't cope with that. And the rest of the minute cooling is harder to believe when we're dealing ONLY with tree rings. But the couple hundred data points that MANN used were MOSTLY cherry-picked tree rings also. Doesn't matter, because you could put random numbers into his modeling and come out with a hockey stick. 

Yep -- I'm not excited about tree rings either. But I'll be damned if I'm gonna let you impugn my understanding of the debate or just sit back and let you wand me with your princess curses.


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## skookerasbil (Jul 31, 2012)

Magicbaby said:


> The environment problem of global warming is inevitable, we just should take actions to solve it to save ourselves.





Another naive newbie Somehow, this forum has become a gigantic magnet for the hopelessly duped!!!


Coal's future is undimmed - latimes.com


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## westwall (Jul 31, 2012)

Magicbaby said:


> The environment problem of global warming is inevitable, we just should take actions to solve it to save ourselves.







Yes, I agree.  Plant growth will be exceptional.  Animal life will flourish and if history repeats itself wars will diminish.  Man will enjoy a boom in culture (just like during the Roman and Medieval Warming periods) and hopefully we can get the technological boom to get us off of this single planet.


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## flacaltenn (Jul 31, 2012)

westwall said:


> Magicbaby said:
> 
> 
> > The environment problem of global warming is inevitable, we just should take actions to solve it to save ourselves.
> ...



There -- I fix your rant..


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## Old Rocks (Aug 3, 2012)

westwall said:


> Magicbaby said:
> 
> 
> > The environment problem of global warming is inevitable, we just should take actions to solve it to save ourselves.
> ...


Surely, surely,just look st the Mid-West at present to see proof of that.


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## skookerasbil (Aug 3, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Magicbaby said:
> ...





C'mon Ray..........you make it seem like we are seeing the first drought in America. They've been happening for time and eternity.

Causes of Droughts - Droughts - Forces of Nature


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## skookerasbil (Aug 3, 2012)

The k00kiness of alarmism..............from todays RealClearScience..................been predicting catastrophy for a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time.

Environmental Alarmism, Then and Now | Foreign Affairs


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## westwall (Aug 3, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Magicbaby said:
> ...







You're mypoic....like a bat.  One year is nothing.  How long did the RWP last?  How long did the MWP last?  Were the years allways warm or were there years where it was cooler within the bounds of the two era's?


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