# Give 'em Hell in a Hurry, Harry!



## georgephillip (Nov 10, 2010)

When Israel declared it's independence on May 14, 1948, President Harry Truman required all of 11 minutes to recognize the Jewish state.

"Truman wrote:

    'Hitler had been murdering Jews right and left. I saw it, and I dream about it even to this day. The Jews needed some place where they could go. It is my attitude that the American government couldn't stand idly by while the victims [of] Hitler's madness are not allowed to build new lives.'"

Harry S. Truman - Wiki

Gore Vidal offers JFK's version of Harry's dream:

"Sometime in the late 1950s, that world-class gossip and occasional historian, John F. Kennedy, told me how, in 1948, Harry S. Truman had been pretty much abandoned by everyone when he came to run for president. 

"Then an American Zionist brought him two million dollars in cash, in a suitcase, aboard his whistle-stop campaign train. 

*'That's why our recognition of Israel was rushed through so fast.*' 

"As neither Jack nor I was an anti-Semite (unlike his father and my grandfather) we took this to be just another funny story about Truman and *the serene corruption of American politics.*"

Jewish History, Jewish Religion...


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## georgephillip (Nov 11, 2010)

Truman had doubters within his own administration about the wisdom of recognizing Israel.

"Truman made the decision to recognize the establishment of the State of Israel over the objections of Secretary of State George Marshall, who feared it would hurt relations with the Arab states.[104] 

"At a meeting in the White House on November 10, 1945, he told envoys to Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon and Egypt: 'I am sorry, gentlemen, but I have to answer to hundreds of thousands who are anxious for the success of Zionism: I do not have hundreds of thousands of Arabs among my constituents.'[105]

"*Rejecting Arab, British, and US State Department warnings that Jewish immigration to Palestine and a Jewish state would destabilize the Middle East,* Truman and Congress continued to support the establishment of a homeland for the Jewish people."

Not always because of Hitler's atrocities, however.

"According to George Lenczowski, Truman's policy on Palestine was influenced by Jewish lobbyists.[108]

"In his memoirs, Truman wrote that top Jewish leaders in the United States put pressure on him to promote Jewish aspirations in Palestine.[109]

"At the urging of the British, a special U.N. committee, UNSCOP, recommended the immediate partitioning of Palestine into two states. 

"*With Truman's support, the plan was approved by the General Assembly on November 29, 1947.* 

*"Secretary of State George Marshall and foreign affairs experts continued to oppose the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine.*[110][111] 

"When Truman agreed to meet with Chaim Weizmann, the Secretary of State objected but did not publicly dispute his decision. 

"Secretary of Defense James Forrestal warned about the perils of arousing Arab hostility, which might *result in denial of access to petroleum resources in the area*,[112] and about 'the impact of this question on the security of the United States.'[113]

"Truman recognized the State of Israel on May 14, 1948, eleven minutes after it declared itself a nation."

"The impact of this question on the security of the United States" hasn't been fully absorbed.

Yet.

But the events of 9/11/2001 offer a clue as to what their ultimate magnitude might be.

Harry S. Truman - Wiki


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## judyd (Nov 11, 2010)

I think Truman had a keen sense of fair play and a payoff had nothing to do with it.   He also integrated the military services--who would have paid him to do that?  He said:   "My forebears were Confederates. . . . But my very stomach turned over when I had learned that Negro soldiers, just back from overseas, were being dumped out of Army trucks in Mississippi and beaten."


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## mdn2000 (Nov 11, 2010)

Quick, Truman was late in recognizing Israel. Truman should of met with the leaders and supported independence before the declaration. Truman only wished to beat the USSR/Stalin, this was at the beginning of the cold war.


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## georgephillip (Nov 11, 2010)

judyd said:


> I think Truman had a keen sense of fair play and a payoff had nothing to do with it.   He also integrated the military services--who would have paid him to do that?  He said:   "My forebears were Confederates. . . . But my very stomach turned over when I had learned that Negro soldiers, just back from overseas, were being dumped out of Army trucks in Mississippi and beaten."


I think you're right about Truman's sense of fair play; however, there was another more pragmatic reason for the integration of the US military and civilian society.

At the dawn of the Cold War African resources loomed large in geopolitics. The Soviets were quick to point out to Africans the glaring hypocrisy of the US claiming to be a "free country" while black vets were being dumped out of trucks and beaten in Mississippi.

It is very difficult for most Americans who weren't alive in the 60s to believe just how racist and self-destructive this society was at that time.


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## georgephillip (Nov 11, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> Quick, Truman was late in recognizing Israel. Truman should of met with the leaders and supported independence before the declaration. Truman only wished to beat the USSR/Stalin, this was at the beginning of the cold war.


I'm not sure when or if the USSR ever recognized Israel? During the Cold War Arabs were more likely to receive Soviet support while the US backed Israel.

Maybe a more relevant to question to consider today is what role the existence of Israel played in the terror attacks of 9/11/01?


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 11, 2010)

It has never been about right or wrong. It is just politics as usual.


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## georgephillip (Nov 11, 2010)

Politics that is always determined by socializing cost and privatizing profit.

"American policy makers in 1947-48 agreed that the highest foreign policy objective was containment of Soviet expansion as the Cold War unfolded. 

"*From Washington's perspective Palestine was secondary to the goal of protecting the 'Northern Tier' of Greece, Turkey, and Iran from Communism, as promised by the Truman Doctrine.* 

"Truman set three goals for the region: a peaceful solution, unwillingness to send U.S. troops, and the need to prevent Soviet penetration."

If that $2 million story that JFK told Gore Vidal is true, that suitcase Harry received on his train in 1948 could one day rival in infamy the 30 pieces of silver received by Judas.

And the US will be just as dead as the first Jewish state and Rome.

Harry S. Truman - Wiki


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## hipeter924 (Nov 11, 2010)

georgephillip said:


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You are pathetic there, the Soviets changed policy (Stalin recognized Israel) after Israel started supporting the western powers, they then started a massive anti-semetic hate campaign (built upon the articles of zion conspiracy), much like yours and called Israel a quote "terrorist state", much like you...I wonder. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_and_the_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict


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## mdn2000 (Nov 12, 2010)

georgephillip said:


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Five minutes after Truman. Give or take, it was a race. 

What role did Israel play, a major role, I cannot deny that. Still if there was no Israel its difficult to contemplate what would of happened.

We cannot change the past.

We appease the Arabs, what role does that have in 9/11. 

Human nature is the same everywhere, it knows no level of education or intelligence. The smartest people in the world can be the worst human beings.

Thugs are thugs, bullies can only be stopped by force, meeting their violence, with equal and overwhelming violence.

How far can we retreat from the tyrants. Do we start with Israel, than who next, where do we stop.

The trouble in the Middle East exists outside of Israel. 

Did Egypt attack Yemen because of the Jews, did Iran and Iraq fight a war over Jews, did the Sauds fight the Rasheeds because of the Jews. 

Without Israel war will still exist, even more so in the Middle East.


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## georgephillip (Nov 12, 2010)

You've mentioned US "appeasement" of Arabs several times without offering any examples. Do you believe the US serves as an "honest broker for peace" between Arab and Jew? If so, how do you explain the US's and Israel's rejection of the peace proposal offered by Arab states in January of 1976?

"The fact that the Israel-Palestine conflict grinds on without resolution might appear to be rather strange. For many of the world's conflicts, it is difficult even to conjure up a feasible settlement. 

"In this case, it is not only possible, but there is near universal agreement on its basic contours: a two-state settlement along the internationally recognized (pre-June 1967) borders -- with 'minor and mutual modifications,' to adopt official U.S. terminology before Washington departed from the international community in the mid-1970s.

"The basic principles have been accepted by virtually the entire world, including the Arab states (who go on to call for full normalization of relations), the Organization of Islamic States *(including Iran)*, and relevant non-state actors *(including Hamas).* 

"A settlement along these lines was first proposed at the U.N. Security Council in January 1976 by the major Arab states.

"*Israel refused to attend the session*. 

"*The U.S. vetoed the resolution, and did so again in 1980*. 

"The record at the General Assembly since is similar." 

A Middle East Peace

Thugs, bullies and tyrants often depend on rejection of legitimate peace offerings and arm sales for their economic and diplomatic success. 

That seems to be the case with the US and Israel for the last sixty years.


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## georgephillip (Nov 12, 2010)

hipeter924 said:


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"The Soviet Union voted in favor of the 1947 UN Partition Plan (Resolution 181) which paved the way for the creation of the State of Israel. 

"Within 11 minutes of Israel's declaration of independence, it was recognized by the United States. The Soviet Union followed soon after, along with most of the other Western powers.[99]

"The Soviet Union and the other communist states of Eastern Europe (with the exception of Romania) *cut diplomatic ties with Israel during the Six-Day War*. 

"Relations were restored in 1991 after the collapse of the Soviet Union, despite the fact that hostile Arab countries such as Syria also maintain close ties with Russia. Russia is known to supply Syria with weapons."

Foreign relations of Israel - Wiki

If your definition of "terrorist" follows a current US Army manual's version as "the calculated use of violence or threat of violence to attain goals that are political, religious or ideological in nature (and) this is done through intimidation, coercion or instilling fear", Israel's occupation of Area C and Gaza, not to mention the US's occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, seem identical to the actions of "terrorist states."

Or maybe it's only "terror" when "they" do it?

International Terrorism:


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## docmauser1 (Nov 12, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _If your definition of "terrorist" follows a current US Army manual's version as "the calculated use of violence or threat of violence to attain goals that are political, religious or ideological in nature (and) this is done through intimidation, coercion or instilling fear", Israel's occupation of Area C and Gaza, not to mention the US's occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, seem identical to the actions of "terrorist states." Or maybe it's only "terror" when "they" do it?_


Didn't I mention elsewhere that, quoting Chomskin might lead one into a pit, and was, generally, bad manners? So, what's that our "hero" Chomskin is masturnating about this time?


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## georgephillip (Nov 12, 2010)

"The general point was put accurately enough by a leading diplomatic historian, Gerald Haines, in a recent book, (he is also the senior historian of the CIA).1 

"He observes that after WWII the United States 'assumed, out of self-interest, responsibility for the welfare of the world capitalist system,' which is a fair enough formula, but to understand it we have to carry out a few translations. 

"The first is that the word 'capitalist' doesn't mean capitalist.

"' Rather, what it refers to is state-subsidized and protected private power centres "*collectivist legal entities*," as they are called by legal historians, internally tyrannical, unaccountable to the public, granted extraordinary rights by US courts in radical violation of classical liberal ideals. 

"'That's why the corporatisation of America, as it's called, early in this century was bitterly condemned by conservatives, a breed that has since vanished, aside from the name.

"'The corporatisation was condemned as "a form of communism," a return to "feudalistic" structures, and not without reason. Progressive intellectuals, who generally supported the process, gave a rather similar assessment. 

"'One of the leading ones, Woodrow Wilson, wrote that "*most men are servants of corporations*," which now account for the "greater part of the business of the country." It is "a very different America from the old, . .. . no longer a scene of individual enterprise,. . . individual opportunity and individual achievement." 

"In the new America, "small groups of men in control of great corporations wield a power and control over the wealth and business opportunities of the country," becoming "*rivals of the government itself*.'"

Power in the Global Arena


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## docmauser1 (Nov 12, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _"The general point was put accurately enough by a leading diplomatic historian, Gerald Haines, in a recent book, (he is also the senior historian of the CIA)._


And the hamas gang-rape victim, no doubt.


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## georgephillip (Nov 13, 2010)

Still bitter?

See if this helps clear your mind:

"More accurately, these corporations were casting over society the shadow that we call politics, as John Dewey put it a little later, making obvious points about the extreme limitations on democracy when 'the life of the country', the production and information systems and so on, are ruled by private tyrannies, in a system that he described as industrial 'feudalism' -- the contemporary system."

Possibly you and Hamas have more in common than simple lust?

Power in the Global Arena


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## hipeter924 (Nov 13, 2010)

georgephillip said:


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Rewriting the definition so Hamas are okay, 'freedom fighters', and a 'humanitarian aid organization' like I didn't see that coming.


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## mdn2000 (Nov 13, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> You've mentioned US "appeasement" of Arabs several times without offering any examples. Do you believe the US serves as an "honest broker for peace" between Arab and Jew? If so, how do you explain the US's and Israel's rejection of the peace proposal offered by Arab states in January of 1976?
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Appeasement of the Arabs, specific examples, I guess I cant, its just something I though up. Just kidding, yea, I can give examples, I can site policy. 

Knowing your ideas come from Chomsky helps, I see he is quoted in the post I am responding to. I must respond and prove Chomsky's opinion is wrong. The internet is littered with people who have already done this. Cut/Paste/Link, to easy.

What is more interesting is what makes you think Chomsky's views are true. What have you done to educate yourself. Can you recommend books that you have read or use or is it all Chomsky.

No room in the Middle East for the Jews, Israel is a tiny island, Arabs all around, after the fall of the Ottoman empire the world literally gave states to Arab tribes, Arab families, states or nations that never existed. Not enough though, everything must be Arab.

We appease Saudi Arabia, we tell Israel to give a country to Arabs because that is what Saudi Arabia demands. If it was not for oil most likely we would tell the Arabs to step into at least the 19th century. If it was not for oil we would warn the Arabs that the murder stops, we would tell the Arabs to free the woman, we would stop the child rape, end the human rights violations of the Arabs.

Chomsky, seriously, your whole basis of argument is Chomsky, its almost boring.


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## georgephillip (Nov 13, 2010)

"If it was not for oil we would warn the Arabs that the murder stops"????

How many innocent human beings has the US military murdered since 1945?
How many Koreans, Cambodians, Laotians, Vietnamese?
How many more civilians have our proxies killed in Central and South America?
Most importantly...who gets rich from the killing?

Hint: It's not Chomsky


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## Urbanguerrilla (Nov 13, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> No room in the Middle East for the Jews, Israel is a tiny island, Arabs all around, after the fall of the Ottoman empire the world literally gave states to Arab tribes, Arab families, states or nations that never existed. Not enough though, everything must be Arab.




Thats a ridiculous statement, its the kind of statement only Israel supporters could get away with. 

Jews lived in the ME prior to 1948. The 'world' didnt give anything to the Arabs, those people already lived there. All the imperialists did was to draw a few lines on a map, something they probably had no business doing anyway.


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## docmauser1 (Nov 13, 2010)

Urbanguerrilla said:


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Or a quwaiti sheikh, who's state (the first british protectorate in the Gulf) had been created out of the thin air in 1961. Or the saud and the wahhabi gangster tribes, which got (courtesy the brutish-british) the oil, and the uncomfortable hashemite kicked out, but awarded with Jordan (by Chirchill in 1922) in the end, after all. Any more muslarab nation-building? Oh, the *Phillystain*.


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## georgephillip (Nov 13, 2010)

hipeter924 said:


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Do you have the capacity to distinguish between the concepts of *literal* and *propagandistic*?

"There are two ways to approach the study of terrorism. One may adopt a *literal approach, taking the topic seriously*, or a *propagandistic approach, construing the concept of terrorism as a weapon to be exploited in the service of some system of power*. 

"In each case it is clear how to proceed. 

"Pursuing the literal approach, we begin by determining what constitutes terrorism. 

"We then seek instances of the phenomenon -- concentrating on the major examples, if we are serious -- and try to determine causes and remedies. 

"The propagandistic approach dictates a different course. 

"We begin with the thesis that terrorism is the responsibility of some officially designated enemy. 

"We then designate terrorist acts as 'terrorist' just in the cases where they can be attributed (whether plausibly or not) to the required source; otherwise they are to be ignored, suppressed, or termed 'retaliation' or 'self-defence.'

"It comes as no surprise that the *propagandistic approach is adopted by governments generally*, and by their instruments in totalitarian states. 

"More interesting is the fact that the same is largely true of the media and scholarship in the Western industrial democracies, as has been documented in extensive detail.1 

"'We must recognize,' Michael Stohl observes, 'that by convention -- and it must be emphasized only by convention -- great power use and the threat of the use of force is normally described as coercive diplomacy and not as a form of terrorism,' though it commonly involves 'the threat and often the use of violence for what would be described as terroristic purposes were it not great powers who were pursuing the very same tactic.'2 

"Only one qualification must be added: the term 'great powers' must be restricted to favored states; in the Western conventions under discussion (in 1991), the Soviet Union is granted no such rhetorical license, and indeed can be charged and convicted on the flimsiest of evidence.

International Terrorism


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## mdn2000 (Nov 13, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "If it was not for oil we would warn the Arabs that the murder stops"????
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> How many Koreans, Cambodians, Laotians, Vietnamese?
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Chomsky gets rich from the killing, you think he is giving his book and speech money to charity, talk about being naive.


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## mdn2000 (Nov 13, 2010)

Urbanguerrilla said:


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What is ridiculous is your comment on mine, at least define why its ridiculous, you got george to thank you so your in good company.

The world did give everything to the Arabs, you cannot be suggesting the Arabs rose against the Turks and defeated the Ottoman empire, are you?

The Jews did live in the ME, correct, so I am right, whats your point. 

The people of the world are free enough to make maps, you have no idea of the middle east, seriously, zero.

Further every single Arab empire sought and asked for western or Russian help.


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## georgephillip (Nov 13, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


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How rich is Chomsky?

How does his net worth compare to Dick Cheney or Bill Clinton?

The $millions Chomsky's earned from writing and speaking in opposition to war pale beside what he could have earned on Wall Street promoting war.

Chomsky's completely clueless about why anyone should profit from war.

Maybe you know?


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## hipeter924 (Nov 13, 2010)

Noam Chomsky, Closet Capitalist 					 					( 					2)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Print This  ShareThis    				 	      		By Peter Schweizer
 	      		Hoover Digest 
    	      		Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008

*"I'm kind of a parasite. I mean, I'm living off the activism of others. I'm happy to do it."*
- Noam Chomsky​ _Chomsky talks an anti-capitalist game, but what does he practice? Market economics at their most profitable._

  	  	 	 	body { font: 12px verdana,arial,sans-serif; }body { font: 12px verdana,arial,sans-serif; }body { font: 12px verdana,arial,sans-serif; } 	 	   





One  of the most persistent themes in Noam Chomsky's work has been class  warfare. He has frequently lashed out against the "massive use of tax  havens to shift the burden to the general population and away from the  rich" and criticized the concentration of wealth in "trusts" by the wealthiest 1 percent.  The American tax code is rigged with "complicated devices for ensuring  that the poor-like 80 percent of the population-pay off the rich." 
  But  trusts can't be all bad. After all, Chomsky, with a net worth north of  $2,000,000, decided to create one for himself. A few years back he went  to Boston's venerable white-shoe law firm, Palmer and Dodge, and, with  the help of a tax attorney specializing in "income-tax planning," set up  an irrevocable trust to protect his assets from Uncle Sam. He named his tax attorney (every socialist radical needs one!) and a daughter as trustees. To the Diane Chomsky Irrevocable Trust (named for another daughter) he has assigned the copyright of several of his books, including multiple international editions. 



Noam Chomsky, Closet Capitalist | Critical Analysis |Axisoflogic.com


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## mdn2000 (Nov 13, 2010)

georgephillip said:


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Thats your argument, that is your debate, you whiny little snot nosed wimp, that is the best you got without a link to Chomsky, is Chomsky's ideas so empty of fact, thats it.


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## mdn2000 (Nov 13, 2010)

hipeter924 said:


> Noam Chomsky, Closet Capitalist 					 					( 					2)
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Your wrong, this is five years old! He is worth over 15 million dollars today.


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 13, 2010)

hipeter924 said:


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Hamas only attacks people who occupy Palestine. That terrorist label is merely propaganda.


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## docmauser1 (Nov 13, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> _Hamas only attacks people who occupy Palestine._


That is why they should be attacking themselves.





P F Tinmore said:


> _That terrorist label is merely propaganda._


Of course, they are terrorists.


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 14, 2010)

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The whole war on terror farce is merely political theatre.

Hamas fights against occupation period. This does not fit the international terrorist model.


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## mdn2000 (Nov 14, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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Hamas fights for Hamas, not the people.


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 14, 2010)

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How so?


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## docmauser1 (Nov 14, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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If so, then those marching-jumping hamas-hezbollah assholes are doing a great promotional job.



P F Tinmore said:


> _Hamas fights against occupation period._


Of course, it's them and their occupation, after all.


P F Tinmore said:


> _This does not fit the international terrorist model._


Of course, it fits.


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 14, 2010)

docmauser1 said:


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Read up on international terrorism then tell me where Hamas fits.


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## mdn2000 (Nov 14, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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With pounds of high explosives duct tapped around the belly of a teenager.


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 14, 2010)

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They don't do that anymore, but anyway, how is that for Hamas and not the people?


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## mdn2000 (Nov 14, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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The Palestinians are the victims of Hamas. The people had it pretty good before the PLO, not great but with time things get better, so Hamas or the PLO or whoever is the murderer in charge will make life great for the people they use. 

Hamas, freeing the people from the terror they created.


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 14, 2010)

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The PLO is an unelected group of different Palestinian factions that does not include Hamas.

I don't know what you mean by freeing people from the terror they created.


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## mdn2000 (Nov 14, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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So they have an election, that is forced on them, the choice is "Death" or "Diet Death", which do you vote for.

You should count yourself lucky you do not know the terror.


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 14, 2010)

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Gaza was under siege since before Hamas. Hamas is just Israel's current bogyman.


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## mdn2000 (Nov 14, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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Gaza belonged to Egypt, I thought you were talking about Palestine.


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 14, 2010)

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Gaza did not belong to Egypt. Egypt merely occupied it. A country does not cease to exist when it is under occupation.

Gaza was Egyptian occupied Palestinian land. Now it is Israeli occupied Palestinian land.


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## Urbanguerrilla (Nov 14, 2010)

docmauser1 said:


> Of course, they are terrorists.



What is a terrorist?


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## mdn2000 (Nov 14, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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Palestine was not a country, tell us the history of this Palestinian country. Go ahead, cut and paste from wikipedia, just curious as to what you come up with.


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## mdn2000 (Nov 14, 2010)

Urbanguerrilla said:


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People who kill the good guys.


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 14, 2010)

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Israelis who have their butt parked on Palestinian land are the good guys?


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## docmauser1 (Nov 14, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> _Read up on international terrorism then tell me where Hamas fits._


Right there, together with hezbullah, of course.


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 14, 2010)

docmauser1 said:


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Hezbollah stated that it went into Israeli occupied Palestine and captured two Israeli soldiers.

Interesting that they would say that.


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 14, 2010)

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Then who owned Palestine if not the Palestinian?


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## mdn2000 (Nov 14, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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Its not Palestinian land, the land belongs to those who won, the Palestinians lost, they were to week, they were unable to compete, the Middle East just could not support every piece of land being pure Moslem. 

Sad fact of history, that last tiny island isolated geographically from the rest of the Moslem world was able to hold onto its history and people. 

Of all places in the Middle East Christians have a right to live in the former Palestine. Maybe had the Arabs not been busy begging the British and French to make the countries of Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iran, Egypt, Yemen, UAE, Kuwait, they would of had the capital needed to make Palestine a Moslem country.

As it is, the Arabs were spread to thin and just did not have the money, the educated people, or the experienced people to make every scrap of land a brand new Arab nation that never existed in history.


----------



## editec (Nov 14, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Quick, Truman was late in recognizing Israel. Truman should of met with the leaders and supported independence before the declaration. Truman only wished to beat the USSR/Stalin, this was at the beginning of the cold war.
> ...


 
Initally both the Soviet Union and the USA supported Israel.

I cannot find the exact date of the Soviet Unions offical recognition but it happened thusly: 



> The Soviet Union voted in favor of the 1947 UN Partition Plan (Resolution 181) which paved the way for the creation of the State of Israel. Within 11 minutes of Israel's declaration of independence, it was recognized by the United States. *The Soviet Union followed soon after, along with most of the other Western powers*.[99]


 
source


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 14, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > mdn2000 said:
> ...



Why would you say the Palestinians lost...as in past tense? I don't recall the war between Israel and Palestine ever being over. Wars between Israel and other countries have come and gone but this war is still going. The Palestinians have never surrendered. They have never ceded any land to Israel. Palestine's borders have never changed. Israel still has no borders. The peace talks for the last two decades say that Palestine must surrender and disarm. These talks have consistently flopped.


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## mdn2000 (Nov 14, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Quick, Truman was late in recognizing Israel. Truman should of met with the leaders and supported independence before the declaration. Truman only wished to beat the USSR/Stalin, this was at the beginning of the cold war.
> ...



Is that all you can do when you get stumped, ask another non-relevant question, ignoring the last statement you made that was false.

Lets tie 9/11 to Israel, I agree, if we never created Israel in the 1800's 9/11 never would of happened, but we did create Israel, and I am proud to state the Christians of the world created Israel.

 Prior to 9/11, when Saddam had a hand in the first terrorist bombing of the world trade center, then began to attack us by supporting terrorism in the USA's 51st state, Israel, that was an act of war, even if Bill Clinton was to busy getting a blow job to realize it, so Israel and Saddam justify the war in Iraq. We created Israel, we must protect our 51st state, even if that means we have to destroy a man who uses chemical weapons.


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## hipeter924 (Nov 14, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> hipeter924 said:
> 
> 
> > Noam Chomsky, Closet Capitalist                                          (                     2)
> ...


It's old so of course it's slightly off track. He's still a sell out and a hypocrite, and still worth millions for being one.


----------



## docmauser1 (Nov 14, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Islamic assholes, it's their occupation.


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 14, 2010)

editec said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > mdn2000 said:
> ...


"The Soviet Union and the other communist states of Eastern Europe (with the exception of Romania) *cut diplomatic ties with Israel during the Six-Day War*. 

"*Relations were restored in 1991 after the collapse of the Soviet Union*, despite the fact that hostile Arab countries such as Syria also maintain close ties with Russia. 

"Russia is known to supply Syria with weapons."

Foreign relations...

1967 changed a great many American attitudes toward Israel. The US wasn't having the same military success in Vietnam that Israel displayed against Egypt.

I can vaguely remember some US hawks suggesting we turn Israel loose on North Vietnam. As I recall, it was the attitudes among US liberals that changed most toward the Jewish state.


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## Urbanguerrilla (Nov 14, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> Urbanguerrilla said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...





Is that your definition?


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 15, 2010)

"The explicit definitions we find in the US Code, international conventions, official or quasi-official US documents, and other such sources. 

"These agree that terrorism is *'the calculated use of violence or threat of violence to attain goals that are political, religious, or ideological in nature. This is done through intimidation, coercion, or instilling fear'* (US Army Operational Concept for Terrorism Counteraction). 

"Still simpler is the characterization in a Pentagon-commissioned study by noted terrorologist Robert Kupperman, *which speaks of the threat or use of force 'to achieve political objectives without the full-scale commitment of resources,'* that is, short of outright war.8

"We might counterpose to these an Orwellian definition, too cynical to take seriously: *'terrorism" is terrorism that is perpetrated by official enemies*; terrorism that we or our clients conduct does not fall under the concept.'"

No Longer Safe


----------



## P F Tinmore (Nov 15, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "The explicit definitions we find in the US Code, international conventions, official or quasi-official US documents, and other such sources.
> 
> "These agree that terrorism is *'the calculated use of violence or threat of violence to attain goals that are political, religious, or ideological in nature. This is done through intimidation, coercion, or instilling fear'* (US Army Operational Concept for Terrorism Counteraction).
> 
> ...



Where does defending your country fit into this terrorist thing?


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## Urbanguerrilla (Nov 15, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > "The explicit definitions we find in the US Code, international conventions, official or quasi-official US documents, and other such sources.
> ...



If you are defending your country and your enemy is a lot more powerful, you are a  terrorist...too bad!


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## Urbanguerrilla (Nov 15, 2010)

Urbanguerrilla said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



AKA a terrorist is the guy with the small b0mb...Brendan Behan.


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## Intense (Nov 15, 2010)

Urbanguerrilla said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



 guerilla - a member of an irregular armed force that fights a stronger force by sabotage and harassment 

guerilla - definition of guerilla by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.



terrorist - a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities

terrorist - definition of terrorist by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.


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## georgephillip (Nov 15, 2010)

*"ter·ror  (trr)*
n.
1. Intense, overpowering fear. See Synonyms at fear.
2. One that instills intense fear: a *rabid dog* that became the terror of the neighborhood.

3. The *ability to instill intense fear*: the terror of jackboots pounding down the street.
4. *Violence committed or threatened by a group to intimidate or coerce a population, as for military or political purposes.*

5. Informal An annoying or intolerable pest: that little terror of a child.

Free Online Dictionary - terror


----------



## hipeter924 (Nov 15, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> *"ter·ror  (trr)*
> n.
> 1. Intense, overpowering fear. See Synonyms at fear.
> 2. One that instills intense fear: a *rabid dog* that became the terror of the neighborhood.
> ...


Oh look it's Hamas/Fatah controlled 'Palestine', lots of pancakes there too.


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## georgephillip (Nov 15, 2010)

Meanwhile...back on the campaign...

"Sometime in the late 1950s, that world-class gossip and occasional historian, John F. Kennedy, told me how, in 1948, Harry S. Truman had been pretty much abandoned by everyone when he came to run for president. 

"*Then an American Zionist brought him two million dollars in cash, in a suitcase, aboard his whistle-stop campaign train*. 

"'That's why our recognition of Israel was rushed through so fast.' 

"As neither Jack nor I was an antisemite (unlike his father and my grandfather) we took this to be just another funny story about Truman and the serene corruption of American politics."

How many Zionist pancakes could Harry buy with $2 million in 1948?

How many innocent human beings have died because he took a Zionist bribe?

Jewish History, Jewish Religion


----------



## mdn2000 (Nov 16, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Palestine was never a people, never. Palestine was used by the Syrian's to describe a geographically defined area. 

Never a country, you can ask simple questions, but you cannot answer my question, tell us the history of the Arab Nation Palestine. Go ahead.

What year was Palestine created, the year of independence, the first king, the first murder to kill another to be the leader, give us something instead of your endless circle of questions and statements, give us the history.


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## mdn2000 (Nov 16, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Meanwhile...back on the campaign...
> 
> "Sometime in the late 1950s, that world-class gossip and occasional historian, John F. Kennedy, told me how, in 1948, Harry S. Truman had been pretty much abandoned by everyone when he came to run for president.
> 
> ...



How many innocent people in history have died because people such as Chomsky and George are the same type of people who were devote Nazis. How many people can two people with Chomsky and George's ideals throw in a gas chamber per hour.


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## Marc39 (Nov 16, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> When Israel declared it's independence on May 14, 1948, President Harry Truman required all of 11 minutes to recognize the Jewish state.
> 
> "Truman wrote:
> 
> 'Hitler had been murdering Jews right and left. I saw it, and I dream about it even to this day. The Jews needed some place where they could go. It is my attitude that the American government couldn't stand idly by while the victims [of] Hitler's madness are not allowed to build new lives.



Martin Luther King, Jr...


> I see Israel as one of the great outposts of democracy in the world, and a marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy. Peace for Israel means security and that security must be a reality.


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## georgephillip (Nov 16, 2010)

Think a $2 million bribe helped birth the Jewish State?

Seems only fitting.


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## Marc39 (Nov 16, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Think a $2 million bribe helped birth the Jewish State?
> 
> Seems only fitting.



The historical connection with Jews and the land created the Jewish state, dummy.

The League of Nations agreed...


> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country


 
Allah agrees...
Quran 5:20-21...


> Remember Moses said to his people: 'O my people! Recall in remembrance the favor of Allah unto you, when He produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave you what He had not given to any other among the peoples. O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin.


 
Barack Obama agrees...:


> Israel is a sovereign state, and the historic homeland of the Jewish people.
> 
> It should be clear to all that efforts to chip away at Israel's legitimacy will only be met by the unshakeable opposition of the United States.  The slaughter of innocent Israelis is not resistance -- it's injustice


Remarks by the President to the United Nations General Assembly | The White House


Winston Churchill agreed...: 


> The Jews had Palestine before that indigenous population [the Arabs] came in and inhabited it


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Churchill-Jews-Friendship-Martin-Gilbert/dp/0805078800]Amazon.com: Churchill and the Jews: A Lifelong Friendship (9780805078800): Martin Gilbert: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]

The US Congress agrees...

The United States Congressional Record
1922 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 
NATIONAL HOME FOR THE JEWISH PEOPLE JUNE 30, 1922 
HOUSE RESOLUTION 360 - UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTED


> Palestine of today, the land we now know as Palestine, was peopled by the Jews from the dawn of history until the Roman era. It is the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people. They were driven from it by force by the relentless Roman military machine and for centuries prevented from returning. At different periods various alien people succeeded them but the Jewish race had left an indelible impress upon the land.
> 
> Today it is a Jewish country. Every name, every landmark, every monument and every trace of whatever civilization remaining there is still Jewish. And it has ever since remained a hope, a longing, as expressed in their prayers for these nearly 2,000 years. No other people has ever claimed Palestine as their national home. No other people has ever shown an aptitude or indicated a genuine desire to make it their homeland. The land has been ruled by foreigners. Only since the beginning of the modern Zionist effort may it be said that a creative, cultural, and economic force has entered Palestine. The Jewish Nation was forced from its natural home. It did not go because it wanted to.
> 
> ...


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0688123635/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0688123627&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0HX00TRZAFXPP1PG6MNR]Amazon.com: Israel: A History (9780688123635): Martin Gilbert: Books[/ame]


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## georgephillip (Nov 16, 2010)

Be sure to mention that to Gore Vidal the next time you're banned.

"Sometime in the late 1950s, that world-class gossip and occasional historian, John F. Kennedy, told me how, in 1948, Harry S. Truman had been pretty much abandoned by everyone when he came to run for president. 

"*Then an American Zionist brought him two million dollars in cash, in a suitcase, aboard his whistle-stop campaign train.* 

"*'That's why our recognition of Israel was rushed through so fast.'* 

"As neither Jack nor I was an antisemite (unlike his father and my grandfather) we took this to be just another funny story about Truman and the serene corruption of American politics.

Jewish History...


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 16, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Be sure to mention that to Gore Vidal the next time you're banned.



Still, no reputational points for you?  Tsk tsk



> Sometime in the late 1950s, that world-class gossip and occasional historian, John F. Kennedy, told me how, in 1948, Harry S. Truman had been pretty much abandoned by everyone when he came to run for president.
> 
> "*Then an American Zionist brought him two million dollars in cash, in a suitcase, aboard his whistle-stop campaign train]
> 
> ifamericansknew.or*


*

BOGUS website.  This is why you're severely uneducated.*


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## Trajan (Nov 16, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> When Israel declared it's independence on May 14, 1948, President Harry Truman required all of 11 minutes to recognize the Jewish state.
> 
> "Truman wrote:
> 
> ...



so, you are basically claiming that Truman was bought, to recognize Israel? is that correct?


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## Marc39 (Nov 16, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Think a $2 million bribe helped birth the Jewish State?
> 
> Seems only fitting.



Uneducated one, the full international body of the League of Nations unanimously "birthed" Israel in 1922, well before Truman's presidency.


> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country



Open a book


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## georgephillip (Nov 16, 2010)

Trajan said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > When Israel declared it's independence on May 14, 1948, President Harry Truman required all of 11 minutes to recognize the Jewish state.
> ...


JFK apparently thought so.
Gore Vidal found it credible.
Sounds like a likely example of the serene corruption of American politics to me.
What about you?


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 17, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > mdn2000 said:
> ...



Israel has put considerable effort into making the world believe that there never was a Palestine and there are no Palestinians. They have blown a lot of smoke on this issue.

A simple look at history proves this to be false. In the area that is now inside Palestine's borders, the Jews were not the first people there. The Jews were never the only people there. Sure there were many invasions and conquests, and many flags have flown over city hall, but there have always been people with roots in that place. Over time others went there to be a part of that place. That place is now called Palestine and the people be they Muslims, Christians, Jews, or others are called Palestinians.


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## mdn2000 (Nov 17, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



I agree, no argument here. Everything I read says the same thing, while most things depending when its wrote.

So tell us the history of local Arab rule in Palestine, at best its a history of control of specific Arab cities, never a unified government or monarchy of local Arabs in Palestine. There were Arab cities, Jewish cities, mixed Christian, Jewish, Moslem, Arab, Syrian, etc., cities.

So fill me in on what I miss, Capital under who's leadership or control.


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 17, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > mdn2000 said:
> ...



*Decisions of international and national tribunals*

The U.S. State Department Digest of International Law says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[16]

*Opinions of officials and legal scholars
*
For John Quigley Palestine's existence as a state predates the 1988 declaration. Tracing Palestine's status as an international entity back to the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after World War I, he recalls that the Palestine Mandate (19181948), an arrangement made under Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, held as its "ultimate objective", the "self-determination and independence of the people concerned." He says that in explicitly referring to the Covenant, the 1988 declaration was reaffirming an existing Palestinian statehood.[126] Noting that Palestine under the Mandate entered into bilateral treaties, including one with Great Britain, the Mandatory power, he cites this as an example of its "sovereignty" at that time. He also notes the corollary of the Stimson Doctrine and the customary prohibition on the use of force contained in the Restatement of Foreign Relations Law of the United States, "[a]n entity does not necessarily cease to be a state even if all of its territory has been occupied by a foreign power".[86]

*States recognising the State of Palestine*

The exact number of countries recognizing the State of Palestine is unknown, due to the equivocal nature of many official statements of acknowledgment.[155] Many countries have a standing policy against making formal declarations that recognize new governments instead indicating their recognition of a state by doing business with its government.[105] Francis Boyle, legal advisor to the PLO, assisted the organization in drafting the 1988 Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Palestine. At that time, the United States was using its Foreign Assistance Act and other measures to discourage other countries and international organizations from extending recognition.[156] According to one author, by 1988, more than 100 countries had recognized Palestine.[157] Boyle reported in 1990 that the number was 114 states.[95] In 2005, Anat Kurz reported that 117 United Nations member states had formally recognised the state of Palestine as a sovereign state.[158] In 2010, Boyle reported that the number was 127.[159]

State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 17, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> *States recognising the State of Palestine
> *


*

Palestine doesn't exist, dummy.  

Historian Bernard Lewis...



			For Arabs, the term Palestine was unacceptable.  For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant. The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole [Syria].  For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point.
		
Click to expand...





			The Palestinian Arabs' basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or -- for some -- Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after 30 years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine.
		
Click to expand...

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Middle-East-Bernard-Lewis/dp/0684832801/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1288529772&sr=8-5]Amazon.com: The Middle East (9780684832807): Bernard Lewis: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]*


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## mdn2000 (Nov 17, 2010)

Tit for tat, in 1948, when speaking or writing of Palestine, the term Palestinian was not applied to Arab/Moslems. That particular argument I will make in another post.

Palestine is a region, was alway a region, never a Country, never a Nation, never a State, never was a Nation called Palestine. Geographic area within Syria. 

F L A M E : Israel's Borders: Are they "legitimate"? Should they be changed?



> Myth: The establishment of the State of Israel in 1948 changed border arrangements that had existed for centuries.
> 
> Fact: The borders in the Middle East were drawn arbitrarily after World War I by Britain and France. In the spoils, Britain got Iraq and Palestine. In 1922, contrary to the Balfour Declaration and to its Mandate from the League of Nations, Britain gave the area east of the Jordan River (77% of Palestine) to the Hashemite tribes.





> Myth: Judea and Samaria (also called "the West Bank") are part of Jordan.
> 
> Fact: The British allocated the area east of the Jordan River to the Hashemite tribes. These tribes founded a kingdom and called it Transjordan. In 1948, after the declaration of Israel's independence, the British-led Transjordanians attacked the newly founded Jewish state and were able to occupy Judea/Samaria (the "West Bank") and the eastern part of Jerusalem. They renamed themselves "Jordan" and stayed in that occupation for 19 years, until they were defeated and driven out by Israel in the 1967 Six Day War.





> Myth: Israeli settlements in Judea/Samaria (the "West Bank") are illegal, an obstacle in peace.
> 
> Fact: Contrary to what Arab propaganda suggests, Jordan was never sovereign in Judea/Samaria (the "West Bank"). Thus, the constantly repeated accusation of "Israeli occupation" is pointless. Numerous international legal authorities, among them Eugene Rostow, have shown conclusively that Israel's rights in Judea/Samaria (the "West Bank") are based on international law and are further affirmed by U.N. Resolutions 242 and 338. President Reagan concluded that Jewish settlements are not illegal and that "...all people &#8212; Moslems, Jews, and Christians &#8212; are entitled to live in the West Bank."


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## mdn2000 (Nov 17, 2010)

I am not going to rely simply on this website, I found out about this website by reading the American Spectator and NewsMax magazines. These are their ads.

I can also site passages in books written by people of the times, copyrights on the books will be pre-1948. I may also have a life magazine or two that have articles that refer to the people of Palestine as Arabs, Moslems, Jews, and Christians, not to mention all the other people.

Arabs historically would never refer to themselves as Palestinians, if we read Lawrence's Seven Pillars of Wisdom we will find no people referred to as Palestinian, they are all known by the family name of the sheik of the tribe. Hashemite, Saudi, I could name more if I opened the book but its time to get off work. 

Other than a simple website, we will not find the term Palestinian referring to Moslems or Arabs. Papers, people, scholars, never referred to the Arabs as Palestinian.

F L A M E : A "Palestinian Homeland:" Is it a valid aspiration or an unwarranted demand?



> What are the facts?
> 
> Some clarifying definitions are in order. The Arabs living in "Palestine" &#8212; which is Jordan, Israel and the areas administered by Israel &#8212; like to refer to themselves as "Palestinians," and to the Jews living there as "Jews." But all inhabitants of Palestine obviously are Palestinians &#8212; either Arab or Jewish Palestinians. By only referring to themselves, but not to the Jews, as "Palestinians," the Arabs attempt to convey legitimacy on themselves and illegitimacy on the Jews, despite the uninterrupted presence of Jews in all part of Palestine since Biblical times.
> 
> In 1948, the Palestinian State of Jordan, in an act of naked aggression, invaded the just-born state of Israel. It managed to occupy Judea/Samaria (the "West Bank") and the eastern part of Jerusalem. For the next 19 years, and until 1967 when the territory came under Israeli administration after the Six-day War, Judea/Samaria was part of the Kingdom of Jordan. During that entire time, nothing was ever heard of "Palestinian" peoplehood. The thought of creating a second "Palestinian" state in the "West Bank," in addition to the Palestinian state of Jordan, did not occur to anyone &#8212; certainly not to the "Palestinians," not to any of the 22 Arab countries, and not to the rest of the world


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 17, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> For John Quigley Palestine's existence as a state predates the 1988 declaration. Tracing Palestine's status as an international entity back to the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after World War I, he recalls that the Palestine Mandate (1918&#8211;1948), an arrangement made under Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, held as its "ultimate objective", the "self-determination and independence of the people concerned." He says that in explicitly referring to the Covenant, the 1988 declaration was reaffirming an existing Palestinian statehood.[126] Noting that Palestine under the Mandate entered into bilateral treaties, including one with Great Britain, the Mandatory power, he cites this as an example of its "sovereignty" at that time. He also notes the corollary of the Stimson Doctrine and the customary prohibition on the use of force contained in the Restatement of Foreign Relations Law of the United States, "[a]n entity does not necessarily cease to be a state even if all of its territory has been occupied by a foreign power"



Middle East historian Bernard Lewis...


> The word Palestine comes from "Philistine" and originally denoted the coastal region north and south of Gaza [not the land now known as Israel] which was occupied and settled by the Philistine invaders from across the Mediterranean sea [who were Aegean, not Arab or Semitic]





> At first, the country of which Palestine was a part was felt to be Syria.  In Ottoman times, that is, immediately before the coming of the British, Palestine had indeed been a part of a larger Syrian whole from which it was in no way distinguished whether by language, culture, education, administration, political allegiance, or any other significant respect.





> After the Ottoman conquest in 1516-17, Palestine was no longer used by Muslims, for whom it had never meant more than an administrative sub-district, and it had been forgotten even in that limited sense.  In the final phase of this rule before the British conquest, Palestine was part of Beirut.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Nov 17, 2010)

mdm2000,



> ...that have articles that refer to the people of Palestine as Arabs, Moslems, Jews, and Christians, not to mention all the other people.



Palestine has always been and still is multi religious.



> The Arabs living in "Palestine"  which is Jordan, Israel and the areas administered by Israel  like to refer to themselves as "Palestinians," and to the Jews living there as "Jews." But all inhabitants of Palestine obviously are Palestinians  either Arab or Jewish Palestinians. By only referring to themselves, but not to the Jews, as "Palestinians," the Arabs attempt to convey legitimacy on themselves and illegitimacy on the Jews, despite the uninterrupted presence of Jews in all part of Palestine since Biblical times.



The Palestinians do not say that Jordan is Palestine.

Indigenous Muslim, Christians, and Jews call themselves Palestinians. Non indigenous Jews are called Jews or Zionists. Palestinian Muslims, Christians, and Jews living in Israel say they are living under Israeli occupation.

The confusion is that there are two distinct classes of Jews.


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 17, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> mdm2000,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Palestine is a fiction invented by the Romans who were not Semitic, who named Judea, land of the Jews, "Palaestina" after the Philistines who were Aegean, not Semitic, either.

There is no reference to Palestine in the Hebrew Bible, Christian Bible, Quran or any biblical-era historical documents.

Middle East historian Bernard Lewis edifies...


> The word Palestine comes from "Philistine" and originally denoted the coastal region north and south of Gaza [not the land now known as Israel] which was occupied and settled by the Philistine invaders from across the Mediterranean sea [who were Aegean, not Arab or Semitic]


 


> At first, the country of which Palestine was a part was felt to be Syria.  In Ottoman times, that is, immediately before the coming of the British, Palestine had indeed been a part of a larger Syrian whole from which it was in no way distinguished whether by language, culture, education, administration, political allegiance, or any other significant respect.


 


> After the Ottoman conquest in 1516-17, Palestine was no longer used by Muslims, for whom it had never meant more than an administrative sub-district, and it had been forgotten even in that limited sense.  In the final phase of this rule before the British conquest, Palestine was part of Beirut.





> The Palestine entity, formally established and defined by Britain, was formaly abolished in 1948 with the termination of the Mandate


----------



## docmauser1 (Nov 17, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> _The confusion is that there are two distinct classes of Jews._


As per local madrasa drivel, of course.


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 17, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians do not say that Jordan is Palestine.



Jordan, historically, was Eastern Palestine and designated as such by the League of Nations in their original Palestine Mandate.

Jordan is mostly "Palestinian" demographically, including Queen Rania, who calls herself a Palestinian

Palestinians are merely Arabs, no different than Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis or any other Arab.

"Palestine" was viewed by Arabs as southern Syria for most of the past 500 years.



> Indigenous Muslim, Christians, and Jews call themselves Palestinians. Non indigenous Jews are called Jews or Zionists. Palestinian Muslims, Christians, and Jews living in Israel say they are living under Israeli occupation.



Muslims are indigenous to Arabia, birthplace of Islam.  

Jews and Christians are indigenous to Canaan and Judea and Samaria, the correct historical geographic names of the land, not "Palestine"

Your lesson for the day.


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 17, 2010)

mdn2000



> In 1948, the Palestinian State of Jordan, in an act of naked aggression, invaded the just-born state of Israel. It managed to occupy Judea/Samaria (the "West Bank") and the eastern part of Jerusalem. For the next 19 years, and until 1967 when the territory came under Israeli administration after the Six-day War, Judea/Samaria was part of the Kingdom of Jordan. During that entire time, nothing was ever heard of "Palestinian" peoplehood.



Jordan (Iraq was under Jordanian command) was promised $3M a year for five years not to invade Israel. They didn't.

Two of the five countries that supposedly invaded Israel did not.

The PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) was formed in 1964 by Palestinian liberation groups that started in the 50s.

The West Bank was not part of Jordan. It was Jordanian occupied Palestinian land.


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## Marc39 (Nov 17, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> mdn2000
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Muslims have to be bought off not to be warmongers. 



> The West Bank was not part of Jordan. It was Jordanian occupied Palestinian land.



Wrong.  The West Bank was Judea and Samaria, Jewish land, prior to Jordan's illegal seizure of the land.

There are no references to "The West Bank" in the Hebrew Bible.


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## Marc39 (Nov 17, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> The PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) was formed in 1964 by Palestinian liberation groups that started in the 50s.



Zuheir Mohsen, former PLO Leader...


> The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.


Zuheir Mohsen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Arab Commentator Azmi Bishara...


> Well, I dont think there is a Palestinian nation at all. I think there is an Arab nation. I always thought so and I did not change my mind. I do not think there is a Palestinian nation, I think its a colonialist invention - Palestinian nation. When were there any Palestinians? Where did it come from? I think there is an Arab nation. I never turned to be a Palestinian nationalist, despite of my decisive struggle against the occupation. I think that until the end of the 19th century, Palestine was the south of Greater Syria.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3n5-yG-6dU[/ame]


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## georgephillip (Nov 17, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > The Palestinians do not say that Jordan is Palestine.
> ...


How rich is Queen Rania?

As rich as Warren Buffett?

As rich as bibi?

What does it feel like to become rich from killing your neighbor's children?

Parasite.


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## Trajan (Nov 17, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



apparently? No offense,  JFK may be a golden child, but he was dirty as hell, we KNOW he was. Maybe he was projecting. 

Gore Vidal? Sorry...........

Harry Truman? No.If you have read his statement on the matter, I find it credible and heartfelt. 

and yes I know all about Pendergast etc.


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## Marc39 (Nov 17, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



What does it feel like to fellate your Muslim overlords committing genocide in Darfur?



> The genocide in Darfur has claimed 400,000 lives and displaced over 2,500,000 people. More than one hundred people continue to die each day; five thousand die every month.
> 
> Since February 2003, the Sudanese government in Khartoum and the government-sponsored Janjaweed militia have used rape, displacement, organized starvation, threats against aid workers and mass murder. Violence, disease, and displacement continue to kill thousands of innocent Darfurians every month.


 Genocide in Darfur, Sudan | Darfur Scorecard
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-ojg9UjMk0[/ame]


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## Marc39 (Nov 17, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Who's the parasite, parasite?
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYgrziadQIo[/ame]


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## georgephillip (Nov 17, 2010)

Trajan said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Trajan said:
> ...


Since I believe all politicians are dirty, you'll get no argument from me about JFK's integrity. If Harry took the $2 million and if JFK had been as poor as Harry, I have zero doubt he would have done the same.

I am not so sure about Kennedy's alleged transformation from Cold Warrior to Peacemaker as outlined in Edward Curtin's review of James Douglass's 2008 book _JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters._

Briefly, Douglas argues the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis scared Kennedy and Nikita Khrushchev into abandoning the cold war.

I was alive at that time and can remember only one other period when Americans were paying hourly attention to politics and that was the week after 911.

You mention a statement Harry Truman made that you found credible and heartfelt. Did that statement directly address the $2 million Zionist bribe accusation?

JFK and the Unspeakable:


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## Marc39 (Nov 17, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


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## Marc39 (Nov 17, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> You mention a statement Harry Truman made that you found credible and heartfelt. Did that statement directly address the $2 million Zionist bribe accusation?



Did the 51 member states of the League of Nations that unanimously reestablished the Jewish homeland in 1922, well before Truman, accept Zionist bribes, psycho?


> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country


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## georgephillip (Nov 18, 2010)

*Sympathetic* connection of the Jewish people with Palestine.

You might remember the US never joined the League of Nations, and only supports Israel because of the vast amounts of war profits generated by a Jewish homeland in the heart of Arab oil.


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## Marc39 (Nov 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> *Sympathetic* connection of the Jewish people with Palestine.
> 
> You might remember the US never joined the League of Nations, and only supports Israel because of the vast amounts of war profits generated by a Jewish homeland in the heart of Arab oil.



You're too uneducated to know the US Congress issued a joint House resolution in 1922 applauding the League of Nations' establishment of the Jewish homeland.

Now, even you know, dummy.

*The United States Congressional Record
1922 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 
NATIONAL HOME FOR THE JEWISH PEOPLE JUNE 30, 1922 
HOUSE RESOLUTION 360 - UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTED*


> Palestine of today, the land we now know as Palestine, was peopled by the Jews from the dawn of history until the Roman era. It is the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people. They were driven from it by force by the relentless Roman military machine and for centuries prevented from returning. At different periods various alien people succeeded them but the Jewish race had left an indelible impress upon the land.
> 
> Today it is a Jewish country. Every name, every landmark, every monument and every trace of whatever civilization remaining there is still Jewish. And it has ever since remained a hope, a longing, as expressed in their prayers for these nearly 2,000 years. No other people has ever claimed Palestine as their national home. No other people has ever shown an aptitude or indicated a genuine desire to make it their homeland. The land has been ruled by foreigners. Only since the beginning of the modern Zionist effort may it be said that a creative, cultural, and economic force has entered Palestine. The Jewish Nation was forced from its natural home. It did not go because it wanted to.
> 
> ...


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0688123635/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0688123627&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0HX00TRZAFXPP1PG6MNR]Amazon.com: Israel: A History (9780688123635): Martin Gilbert: Books[/ame]


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## georgephillip (Nov 18, 2010)

"Sometime in the late 1950s, that world-class gossip and occasional historian, John F. Kennedy, told me how, in 1948, Harry S. Truman had been pretty much abandoned by everyone when he came to run for president. 

"*Then an American Zionist brought him two million dollars in cash, in a suitcase, aboard his whistle-stop campaign train. 'That's why our recognition of Israel was rushed through so fast...'*

One of the world's most corrupt gangster states born of a $2 million political bribe.

What else would you expect?

Jewish History, Jewish Religion


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## Marc39 (Nov 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "Sometime in the late 1950s, that world-class gossip and occasional historian, John F. Kennedy, told me how, in 1948, Harry S. Truman had been pretty much abandoned by everyone when he came to run for president.



JFK was a Zionist...


> This nation, from the time of President Woodrow Wilson, has established and continued a tradition of friendship with Israel because we are committed to all free societies that seek a path to peace and honor individual right. In the prophetic spirit of Zionism all free men today look to a better world and in the experience of Zionism we know that it takes courage and perseverance and dedication to achieve it.


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## Marc39 (Nov 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "Sometime in the late 1950s, that world-class gossip and occasional historian, John F. Kennedy, told me how, in 1948, Harry S. Truman had been pretty much abandoned by everyone when he came to run for president.
> 
> ifamericansknew.o



BOGUS website.


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## georgephillip (Nov 19, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > "Sometime in the late 1950s, that world-class gossip and occasional historian, John F. Kennedy, told me how, in 1948, Harry S. Truman had been pretty much abandoned by everyone when he came to run for president.
> ...


"*Unfortunately, the hurried recognition of Israel as a state has resulted in forty-five years of murderous confusion*, and the destruction of what Zionist fellow travellers thought would be a pluralistic state &#8211; home to its native population of Muslims, Christians and Jews, as well as a future home to peaceful European and American Jewish immigrants, even the ones who affected to believe that the great realtor in the sky had given them, in perpetuity, the lands of Judea and Samaria. 

"*Since many of the immigrants were good socialists in Europe*, we assumed that they would not allow the new state to *become a theocracy*, and that the native Palestinians could live with them as *equals*.

*"This was not meant to be.* 

"I shall not rehearse the wars and alarms of that unhappy region. 

*"But I will say that the hasty invention of Israel has poisoned the political and intellectual life of the USA, Israel's unlikely patron."*

Now, prove Gore Vidal is BOGUS.

Jewish History, Jewish Religion


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## Marc39 (Nov 19, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



The UN ranks Israel among the 15 best countries to live in  (out of 170 countries) in the world and with the highest qualities of life, emphasizing political and cultural freedom and equality in education, healthcare, life expectancy and income, ahead of England, Spain, Greece, Italy, Finland,  Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg and Austria 

Statistics | Human Development Reports (HDR) | United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)


> Human Development is a development paradigm that is about much more than the rise or fall of national incomes. It is about creating an environment in which people can develop their full potential and lead productive, creative lives in accord with their needs and interests. People are the real wealth of nations. Development is thus about expanding the choices people have to lead lives that they value. And it is thus about much more than economic growth, which is only a means if a very important one of enlarging peoples choices.
> Fundamental to enlarging these choices is building human capabilities the range of things that people can do or be in life. The most basic capabilities for human development are to lead long and healthy lives, to be knowledgeable, to have access to the resources needed for a decent standard of living and to be able to participate in the life of the community. Without these, many choices are simply not available, and many opportunities in life remain inaccessible


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## editec (Nov 19, 2010)

Much as with elections WARS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.

Was there a place called Palestine?

Of course there was. Look at any old map of the region.

Is there a place _now_ called Palestine?

No.

I know that both the Isreali and Palestinian partisans here are both attempting to find MORAL justification for the existence (or destruction) of the state we now call Isreal, but honestly boys, that is a dead end.

No nation is moral. Seeking to pin such a label on ANY nation is absurd

Nation states are amoral contrivences of the winners of wars.

We can pretend (if it amuses us) that GOD was on the side of the winners.

And that will be very comforting only as long as the side you're on is the winner.

But surely SOME of you must have, at one time or the other, gotten your asses kicked unfairly.

Do you tell yourselves that GOD wasn't on your side?

Of course not (_Jesus_ I hope not for your sakes, at least!)

It's time for those of you who are not actually completely insane to get the whole GODand morality  issue out of the issue of geopolitics.


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 19, 2010)

editec said:


> Much as with elections WARS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.
> 
> Was there a place called Palestine?
> 
> ...



This is not a religious conflict, however it will be a sad day when humans abandon their moral compass.


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## Marc39 (Nov 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > Much as with elections WARS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.
> ...



It is a religious conflict, dummy.

Quran 9:29... 


> Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah[] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 19, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > editec said:
> ...



The standard terrorist propaganda crap states that it is the Muslims who attack Christians and Jews. In Israel it is the Jews who attack Christians and Muslims.


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## Marc39 (Nov 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The Quran is propaganda, dummy?

How about the sacred sunnah of Muhammad, is that propaganda, too?....

Sahih Bukhari, 4:52:177...


> The Day of Judgment will not have come until you fight with the Jews, and the stones and the trees behind which a Jew will be hiding will say: 'O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him!



You know less than zero about the subject matter.  Go play in the sandbox.


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## Marc39 (Nov 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Christians who have established an embassy in Jerusalem seem to know better...


> *International Christian Embassy, Jerusalem...
> Today, the ICEJ stands at the forefront of a growing mainstream movement of Christians worldwide who share a love and concern for Israel and an understanding of the biblical significance of the modern ingathering of the Jews to the land of their forefathers. *
> 
> For nearly 30 years the ICEJ has stood by Israel, showing our support in a variety of ways, both in the land and around the world. We administer several aid projects, engage in advocacy for Israel, and assist in aliyah to the Jewish homeland
> ...


International Christian Embassy Jerusalem: About us


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 19, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



What do those fake Christians say about Israel bulldozing Christian home to move in settlers?


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## Trajan (Nov 19, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



no george it didn't. please.


as far as more JFK conspiracy issues, I suggest Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy by Vincent Bugliosi. 


wanna hear my personal conspiracy theory? it is that this fits the lefts platform that the gov. (though they can be trusted to run peoples lives) is ultimately evil most especially the military and the cia, it cannot be that a sympathetic acolyte  (like them) of marx and lenin killed JFK,  it simply has to be a plot.


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## Marc39 (Nov 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Obviously, you're delusional as reflected in the statement of moral support of the Christian Embassy in Jerusalem...


> *International Christian Embassy, Jerusalem...
> Today, the ICEJ stands at the forefront of a growing mainstream movement of Christians worldwide who share a love and concern for Israel and an understanding of the biblical significance of the modern ingathering of the Jews to the land of their forefathers. *
> 
> For nearly 30 years the ICEJ has stood by Israel, showing our support in a variety of ways, both in the land and around the world. We administer several aid projects, engage in advocacy for Israel, and assist in aliyah to the Jewish homeland
> ...


International Christian Embassy Jerusalem: About us


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## Marc39 (Nov 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The UN, which is controlled by the Islamic bloc, doesn't see it that way...

The UN ranks Israel among the 15 best countries to live in  (out of 170 countries) in the world and with the highest qualities of life, emphasizing political and cultural freedom and equality in education, healthcare, life expectancy and income, ahead of England, Spain, Greece, Italy, Finland,  Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg and Austria 

Statistics | Human Development Reports (HDR) | United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)



> Human Development is a development paradigm that is about much more than the rise or fall of national incomes. It is about creating an environment in which people can develop their full potential and lead productive, creative lives in accord with their needs and interests. People are the real wealth of nations. Development is thus about expanding the choices people have to lead lives that they value. And it is thus about much more than economic growth, which is only a means &#8212;if a very important one &#8212;of enlarging people&#8217;s choices.
> Fundamental to enlarging these choices is building human capabilities &#8212;the range of things that people can do or be in life. The most basic capabilities for human development are to lead long and healthy lives, to be knowledgeable, to have access to the resources needed for a decent standard of living and to be able to participate in the life of the community. Without these, many choices are simply not available, and many opportunities in life remain inaccessible


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## Marc39 (Nov 19, 2010)

editec said:


> Much as with elections WARS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.
> 
> Was there a place called Palestine?
> 
> Of course there was. Look at any old map of the region.



Of course you have no clue what you're talking about.

No map from the Biblical era features "Palestine".  Because, Palestine has no Biblical significance, it was invented by the Romans in 135 AD, 1500 years after Jews had already been living there, as anti-Jewish propaganda, based on the Philistines who were Jewish enemies but who were Aegean, not Semitic.

The correct historical geographic names of the land are Canaan and Judah.  "Jewish" is derived from Judah.

Palestine doesn't exist in the Hebrew Bible nor the Christian Bible nor the Quran.

Palestine does not exist in any ancient historical documents.

Furthermore, Arabs never recognized Palestine.  The land was always southern Syria.

Middle East historian Bernard Lewis...


> Official Roman usage of the name Palestine to designate the area of the former Jewish kingdom seems to date from after the Jewish risings and their suppression.  The Emperor Hadrian made a determined attempt to stamp out the embers not only of the revolt but of Jewish nationahood and statehood.
> 
> It would seem that the name Judaea was abolished at the same time as Jerusalem and the country renamed Palestina or Syria-Palestina with the same intention to obliterate its historic Jewish identity.





> For Arabs, the term Palestine was unacceptable. For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole [Syria].  For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point.



Now, you know.


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## georgephillip (Nov 20, 2010)

editec said:


> Much as with elections WARS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.
> 
> Was there a place called Palestine?
> 
> ...


Agreed.

"Nation states are amoral contrivances of the winners of wars."

Don't we still have to morally account for the degree of racism, discrimination and xenophobia in a state like Nazi Germany or White South Africa or Jim Crow USA?

And take whatever actions are required to reveal and eliminate such states?

If "actual politics is an interaction between realistic considerations (whether valid or mistaken, moral or immoral in my view) and ideological influences (and) (t)he latter tend to be more influential the less they are discussed and 'dragged into the light', (then) any form of racism, discrimination and xenophobia becomes more potent and politically influential if it is taken for granted by the society which indulges in it."

Personally, I believe racism, discrimination and xenophobia run rampant in the Jewish State of Israel and deserve the same extinction the Nazis, South Africans, and segregationists received.

Jewish History, Jewish Religion


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## Marc39 (Nov 20, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > Much as with elections WARS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.
> ...



Georgie, personally, you're as dumb as a wall.

The UN ranks Israel among the 15 best countries to live in  (out of 170 countries) in the world and with the highest qualities of life, emphasizing political and cultural freedom and equality in education, healthcare, life expectancy and income, ahead of England, Spain, Greece, Italy, Finland,  Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg and Austria 

Statistics | Human Development Reports (HDR) | United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)



> Human Development is a development paradigm that is about much more than the rise or fall of national incomes. It is about creating an environment in which people can develop their full potential and lead productive, creative lives in accord with their needs and interests. People are the real wealth of nations. Development is thus about expanding the choices people have to lead lives that they value. And it is thus about much more than economic growth, which is only a means if a very important one of enlarging peoples choices.
> Fundamental to enlarging these choices is building human capabilities the range of things that people can do or be in life. The most basic capabilities for human development are to lead long and healthy lives, to be knowledgeable, to have access to the resources needed for a decent standard of living and to be able to participate in the life of the community. Without these, many choices are simply not available, and many opportunities in life remain inaccessible.


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## Marc39 (Nov 20, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > Much as with elections WARS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.
> ...



Georgie, personally, you're a clueless twit.

*What About The Arab Apartheid?
by Khaled Abu Toameh*


> Ironically, the Arab citizens of Israel enjoy more rights in the Jewish state than their Palestinian brothers do in any Arab country.


 


> And is it not ironic that the government of Binyamin Netanyahu is doing more to boost the Palestinian economy in the West Bank than any Arab country? .


 


> Perhaps the time has come to start paying attention to the plight of the Palestinians in the Arab world.


 


> How come the Lebanese students who recently talked about Israel's "war crimes" in the Gaza Strip during Israel Apartheid Week on many North American college campuses had nothing to say about the fact that tens of thousands of Palestinians have been massacred in Lebanon over the past four decades? Dozens of refugees were killed and hundreds wounded in the three-month offensive that also destroyed thousands of houses inside the refugee camp. Reporters said it was the worst internal violence in Lebanon since the civil war that hit the country between 1975-1990. And just three years ago, the Lebanese Army used heavy artillery to bomb the Nahr-al-Bared refugee camp in north Lebanon.
> 
> Yet who has ever heard of a United Nations resolution condemning Syria or Lebanon for committing horrific atrocities or discriminating against the Palestinians?  The Lebanese, Syrian and Jordanian students and professors who took part in the anti-Israel events on campuses have clearly "forgotten" that their regimes probably have more Palestinian blood on their hands than Israel. In the early 1970s, the Jordanians slaughtered thousands of Palestinians in what has become known as Black September. Can somebody point to one United Nations resolution condemning that massacre?
> 
> ...


What about the Arab apartheid? by Khaled Abu Toameh  Israel, belegerd volk, cultuur en natie


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## Marc39 (Nov 20, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Personally, I believe racism, discrimination and xenophobia run rampant in the Jewish State of Israel and deserve the same extinction the Nazis, South Africans, and segregationists received.



Georgie, personally, your ugly head is up your fat, uneducated ass.  

*Wall Street Journal...
"The Arab World's Dirty Secret".*


> As Israelis and Palestinians prepare to visit Washington next week to begin direct peace talks, it's worth recalling what refugees the Palestinians arein Arab countries.
> 
> Last week, Lebanon's parliament amended a clause in a 1946 law that had been used to bar the 400,000 Palestinians living in the country from taking any but the most menial jobs. "I was born in Lebanon and I have never known Palestine," the AP quoted one 45-year-old Palestinian who works as a cab driver. "We want to live like Lebanese. We are human beings and we need civil rights."
> 
> ...



The Huffington Riposte: WHO ARE THE GREATEST PERSECUTORS OF THE PALESTINIANS? NOT ISRAEL, IT IS THE REST OF THE ARAB WORLD


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## georgephillip (Nov 20, 2010)

Trajan said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Trajan said:
> ...


Vincent Bugliosi is one of the smartest people I've come across. As I recall he was voted president of his Law Class (UCLA) yet elected to serve as a District Attorney instead of taking the big money he could have earned as a defense attorney.

Governments have always served to socialize cost and privatize profit, usually by means of war and debt. 

Since I don't know if you were alive in 1962, I can only say the Cuban Missile Crisis had a profound affect on everyone even those of us who didn't know all the details Kennedy and Khrushchev did.

Someone with Kennedy's sense of history, arrogance and personal experience with war might have been inclined to play peacemaker.

If so, those who profit from war and debt would have been inclined to send a message that no US president since that time has failed to heed.


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## georgephillip (Nov 20, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Personally, I believe racism, discrimination and xenophobia run rampant in the Jewish State of Israel and deserve the same extinction the Nazis, South Africans, and segregationists received.
> ...


But I don't steal my neighbors land and water while killing their children for money.

How about you?

Nazi.


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## Marc39 (Nov 20, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



I can't steal my own land owned for 4,000 years, doofus.  Even an uneducated twit like you ought to be able to understand this

Allah agrees...

Quran 5:20-21...


> Remember Moses said to his people: 'O my people! Recall in remembrance the favor of Allah unto you, when He produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave you what He had not given to any other among the peoples. O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin.


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## Marc39 (Nov 20, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



Nazi Georgie, no love for the millions of children slaughtered in Darfur and Sudan by the IslamoNazis you suck off?

Show us your semen mustache, Georgie?



> The genocide in Darfur has claimed 400,000 lives and displaced over 2,500,000 people. More than one hundred people continue to die each day; five thousand die every month.
> 
> Since February 2003, the Sudanese government in Khartoum and the government-sponsored Janjaweed militia have used rape, displacement, organized starvation, threats against aid workers and mass murder. Violence, disease, and displacement continue to kill thousands of innocent Darfurians every month.


 Genocide in Darfur, Sudan | Darfur Scorecard
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DcFs4NSDT0[/ame]


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## georgephillip (Nov 20, 2010)

Do your best to deflect from Israel's crimes, AND you're still a kosher failure.


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## Marc39 (Nov 20, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Do your best to deflect from Israel's crimes, AND you're still a kosher failure.



You mean the war crimes committed by your IslamoNazi boyfriends genociding in Darfur whom you suck off.



> The genocide in Darfur has claimed 400,000 lives and displaced over 2,500,000 people. More than one hundred people continue to die each day; five thousand die every month.
> 
> Since February 2003, the Sudanese government in Khartoum and the government-sponsored Janjaweed militia have used rape, displacement, organized starvation, threats against aid workers and mass murder. Violence, disease, and displacement continue to kill thousands of innocent Darfurians every month.


 http://www.darfurscores.org/darfur
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DcFs4NSDT0[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 21, 2010)

Clean your Kosher stye first, "Princeton"

"Classified documents reveal that the *Israel Defense Forces had committed war crimes in the West Bank*, Anat Kam, the former soldier indicted for espionage over an alleged theft of top secret material, told the court earlier in the year, according to police documents released allowed for publication Monday at the request of Haaretz.

"In the newly released material documenting court hearings surrounding Kam's arrest, the journalist and former IDF soldier said that the motivation behind her removal of sensitive military material was to expose 'certain aspects of the IDF's conduct in the West Bank that I thought were of interest to the public.'" 

Anat Kam


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 21, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Clean your Kosher stye first, "Princeton"
> 
> "Classified documents reveal that the *Israel Defense Forces had committed war crimes in the West Bank*, Anat Kam, the former soldier indicted for espionage over an alleged theft of top secret material, told the court earlier in the year, according to police documents released allowed for publication Monday at the request of Haaretz.
> 
> ...



Nonsense, stupid little boy.

Decorated war hero Colonel Richard Kemp: IDF Most Moral Army In The World...
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX6vyT8RzMo[/ame]


> *I am the former commander of the British forces in Afghanistan. I served with NATO and the United Nations; commanded troops in Northern Ireland, Bosnia and Macedonia; and participated in the Gulf War. I spent considerable time in Iraq since the 2003 invasion, and worked on international terrorism for the UK Governments Joint Intelligence Committee.
> 
> Mr. President, based on my knowledge and experience, I can say this: During Operation Cast Lead, the Israeli Defence Forces did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare.*
> 
> ...


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 21, 2010)

How much was Kemp paid for his testimonial?
How many civilians have died on his watch?
Can't you do any better?


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 21, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> How much was Kemp paid for his testimonial?
> How many civilians have died on his watch?
> Can't you do any better?



How many millions of civilians have died in Darfur and Sudan by the murderous IslamoNazis who you suck off?

Make a semen mustache for us from the jihadists you blow, George  


> The genocide in Darfur has claimed 400,000 lives and displaced over 2,500,000 people. More than one hundred people continue to die each day; five thousand die every month.
> 
> Since February 2003, the Sudanese government in Khartoum and the government-sponsored Janjaweed militia have used rape, displacement, organized starvation, threats against aid workers and mass murder. Violence, disease, and displacement continue to kill thousands of innocent Darfurians every month.


 Genocide in Darfur, Sudan | Darfur Scorecard
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-ojg9UjMk0[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 21, 2010)

And you're no better than those who profit from the capitalists' crimes in Darfur.

Congratulations.

Goebbels will be striking your medal soon.


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 21, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> And you're no better than those who profit from the capitalists' crimes in Darfur.
> 
> Congratulations.
> 
> Goebbels will be striking your medal soon.



You need psychiatric help


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 21, 2010)

"In the newly released material documenting court hearings surrounding Kam's arrest, the journalist and former IDF soldier said that the motivation behind her removal of sensitive military material was to expose 'certain aspects of the IDF's conduct in the West Bank that I thought were of interest to the public.'

"Kam added that her thinking behind taking the top secret papers was to ensure that '*if and when the war crime the IDF was and is committing in the West Bank would be investigated, then I would have evidence to present.'"*

Anat Kam


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 21, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "In the newly released material documenting court hearings surrounding Kam's arrest, the journalist and former IDF soldier said that the motivation behind her removal of sensitive military material was to expose 'certain aspects of the IDF's conduct in the West Bank that I thought were of interest to the public.'



[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX6vyT8RzMo[/ame]




> Colonel Richard Kemp was appointed Member of the Order of the British Empire (MBE), Military Division, on 25 April 1994 in recognition of his intelligence work in Northern Ireland in 1993, and was awarded the Queen's Commendation for Bravery for service as a commander in the United Nations Protection Force in Bosnia in 1994  He was promoted Commander of the Order of the British Empire (CBE), Military Division, in the New Year Honours 2006





> *I am the former commander of the British forces in Afghanistan. I served with NATO and the United Nations; commanded troops in Northern Ireland, Bosnia and Macedonia; and participated in the Gulf War. I spent considerable time in Iraq since the 2003 invasion, and worked on international terrorism for the UK Government&#8217;s Joint Intelligence Committee.
> 
> Mr. President, based on my knowledge and experience, I can say this: During Operation Cast Lead, the Israeli Defence Forces did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare.
> 
> ...


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 21, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> And you're no better than those who profit from the capitalists' crimes in Darfur.
> 
> Congratulations.
> 
> Goebbels will be striking your medal soon.



Israel is the only country in the Middle East that provides safe haven to refugees escaping the genocide in Darfur perpetrated by IslamoNazis.  The Arab and Muslim countries couldn't give a camel's ass.

Here, Darfur refugees waive Israeli flags and speak of Israeli democracy...
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGa2_8tgsKw[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 21, 2010)

While Israel continues to profit from killing 12 year-old Arabs.

Congratulations.

Somewhere Hitler's applauding.


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 21, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> While Israel continues to profit from killing 12 year-old Arabs.



"We Desire Death Of Our Children Like You Desire Life"
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INf4-DRJlUs[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 21, 2010)

Arabs kill Jews in self-defense.

Jews kill Arabs for money.


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 21, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Arabs kill Jews in self-defense.
> 
> Jews kill Arabs for money.



"Oh, Allah, Kill All Jews And Americans"
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7rls9eRKyo[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 21, 2010)

Jews are so special.


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 21, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Jews are so special.


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 22, 2010)

Is that why some Jews equate assimilation with deterioration?

51 Docs


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 22, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Is that why some Jews equate assimilation with deterioration?
> 
> counterpunch.org/brenner



BOGUS website, uneducated one.


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 22, 2010)

"I suspect that the Jews of the USA or of Britain would regard it as *antisemitic if Christians would propose that the USA or the United Kingdom should become a 'Christian state', belonging only to citizens officially defined as 'Christians'. *

"The consequence of such doctrine is that Jews converting to Christianity would become full citizens because of their conversion. 

"*It should be recalled that the benefits of conversions are well known to Jews from their own history.* 

"When the Christian and the Islamic states used to discriminate against all persons not belonging to the religion of the state, including the Jews, the discrimination against Jews was at once removed by their conversion. 

"But a non-Jew discriminated against by the State of Israel will cease to be so treated the moment he or she converts to Judaism.

"This simply shows that the same kind of exclusivity that is regarded by a majority of the diaspora Jews as antisemitic is regarded by the majority of all Jews as Jewish. 

"To *oppose both antisemitism and Jewish chauvinism *is widely regarded among Jews as a 'self-hatred', a concept which I regard as nonsensical."

Jewish History, Jewish Religion


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 22, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "I suspect that the Jews of the USA or of Britain would regard it as []antisemitic if Christians would propose that the USA or the United Kingdom should become a 'Christian state', belonging only to citizens officially defined as 'Christians'. []



*The UN ranks Israel among the 15 best countries to live in  (out of 170 countries) in the world and with the highest qualities of life, emphasizing political and cultural freedom and equality in education, healthcare, life expectancy and income, ahead of England, Spain, Greece, Italy, Finland,  Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg and Austria * 
Statistics | Human Development Reports (HDR) | United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)



> Human Development is a development paradigm that is about much more than the rise or fall of national incomes. It is about creating an environment in which people can develop their full potential and lead productive, creative lives in accord with their needs and interests. People are the real wealth of nations. Development is thus about expanding the choices people have to lead lives that they value. And it is thus about much more than economic growth, which is only a means if a very important one of enlarging peoples choices.
> Fundamental to enlarging these choices is building human capabilities the range of things that people can do or be in life. The most basic capabilities for human development are to lead long and healthy lives, to be knowledgeable, to have access to the resources needed for a decent standard of living and to be able to participate in the life of the community. Without these, many choices are simply not available, and many opportunities in life remain inaccessible.


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 23, 2010)

Assimilation = Deterioration?

What's the matter, "Princeton"

Stumped?


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 23, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Assimilation = Deterioration?
> 
> What's the matter, "Princeton"
> 
> Stumped?



You're drunk so early in the morning?


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 23, 2010)

How about an easier one?

Is a Jew who opposes antisemitism and Jewish chauvinism a self-hating Jew?


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 24, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> How about an easier one?
> 
> Is a Jew who opposes antisemitism and Jewish chauvinism a self-hating Jew?



I thought you said you are no longer an alcoholic?  Drinking so early in the morning?


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 24, 2010)

"The first difficulty in writing about this subject is that the term 'Jew' has been used during the last 150 years with two rather different meanings. 

"To understand this, let us imagine ourselves in the year 1780. 

"Then the universally accepted meaning of the term 'Jew' basically coincided with what the Jews themselves understood as constituting their own identity. 

"*This identity was primarily religious*, but the precepts of religion governed the details of daily behavior in all aspects of life, both social and private, among the Jews themselves as well as in their relation to non-Jews. 

"*It was then literally true that a Jew could not even drink a glass of water in the home of a non-Jew.* 

"And the same basic laws of behavior towards non-Jews were equally valid from Yemen to New York. 

"Whatever the term by which the Jews of 1780 may be described  and I do not wish to enter into a metaphysical dispute about terms like, 'nation' and 'people'1  *it is clear that all Jewish communities at that time were separate from the non-Jewish societies in the midst of which they were living.*"

Are some of these "same basic laws of behavior toward non-Jews" currently on display in Area C and Gaza?

Has another abused child grown into an abuser?

Jewish History, Jewish Religion


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 24, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "The first difficulty in writing about this subject is that the term 'Jew' has been used during the last 150 years with two rather different meanings.



Drinking in the afternoon, too?  Gin? Vodka?


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 25, 2010)

The meaning of "Jew?"


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 29, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > "The first difficulty in writing about this subject is that the term 'Jew' has been used during the last 150 years with two rather different meanings.
> ...


When was it Jews were not allowed to drink as much as a glass of water in a non-Jew's house?

Doesn't that sound racist?


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 29, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



Sounds like someone's an alcoholic


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 30, 2010)

Why do you waste your time on this board?

Are you paid to spam?


----------



## docmauser1 (Nov 30, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _Why do you waste your time on this board?Are you paid to spam?_


Spammers, calling others spammers. Hoolarious.


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 30, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Why do you waste your time on this board?
> 
> Are you paid to spam?



How many reputational points do you have after a year of incessant posting?  That would be zero.

Who is wasting his time, drunkard?


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 1, 2010)

You and Eric "the Patriot" Cantor.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 1, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> You and Eric "the Patriot" Cantor.



You are antiAmerican trash


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 2, 2010)

Are you American or Zionist trash?

"Two million dollar" Harry Truman wants to know.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 2, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Are you American or Zionist trash?
> 
> "Two million dollar" Harry Truman wants to know.


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 2, 2010)

Both?


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 2, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Both?



Yoiu drink both, gin mixed with vodka, alky.


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 2, 2010)

"Shahak is an outstanding scholar, with remarkable insight and depth of knowledge. His work is informed and penetrating, a contribution of great value. (Noam Chomsky)

Jewish History, Jewish Religion


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 2, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "Shahak is an outstanding scholar, with remarkable insight and depth of knowledge. His work is informed and penetrating, a contribution of great value. (Noam Chomsky)
> 
> ifamericansknew



BOGUS website, alcoholic.


----------



## docmauser1 (Dec 2, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _"Shahak is an outstanding scholar, with remarkable insight and depth of knowledge. His work is informed and penetrating, a contribution of great value. (Noam Chomsky)_


Did he say the same about Pol Pot?


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 3, 2010)

"The future of the Palestinian people would have looked much brighter if there had been more Israelis like Shahak ... An outstanding personality.&#8217;

&#8211; The Jerusalem Times

Jewish History, Jewish Religion


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 3, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "The future of the Palestinian people would have looked much brighter if there had been more Israelis like Shahak ... An outstanding personality.
> 
> famericansknew.org



BOGUS Website, jihadist.

Allahu fucku, sand rat.

Palestinians are BOGUS, too, jihadist.

Allahu fuck them.  

Former PLO Leader Zuheir Mohsen...


> The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.


Zuheir Mohsen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Arab American Journalist Joe Farah...


> There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.
> 
> Palestine has never existed -- before or since -- as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland.


Myths of the Middle East


Arab Commentator Azmi Bishara...


> Well, I dont think there is a Palestinian nation at all. I think there is an Arab nation. I always thought so and I did not change my mind. I do not think there is a Palestinian nation, I think its a colonialist invention - Palestinian nation. When were there any Palestinians? Where did it come from? I think there is an Arab nation. I never turned to be a Palestinian nationalist, despite of my decisive struggle against the occupation. I think that until the end of the 19th century, Palestine was the south of Greater Syria.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3n5-yG-6dU[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 3, 2010)

Memo to hasbara:

Find fresh boilerplate.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 3, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Memo to hasbara:
> 
> Find fresh boilerplate.



Mahomet was a child molester.


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 3, 2010)

Are you projecting?

Again??

Have you stopped fucking your dog?

Yet??


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 3, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Are you projecting?
> 
> Again??
> 
> ...



Mahomet was a pedophile.  allahu fucku

Sahih Bukhari 5, 58, 236... 


> Narrated Hisham's father:
> 
> Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 4, 2010)

As was Moses.

Little difference between slaves's libido.

Slave.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 4, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> As was Moses.
> 
> Little difference between slaves's libido.
> 
> Slave.



Mahomet was a child molester.

Moses gave the world the 10 Commandments.

You're just an angry drunk with no reputational points


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 5, 2010)

Moses's version of the Ten Commandments applied only to Jews and are still considered a blueprint for slavery.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 5, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Moses's version of the Ten Commandments applied only to Jews and are still considered a blueprint for slavery.



You're drinking, again.  Hiccup!  

Winston Churchill...


> We owe to the Jews in the Christian revelation a system of ethics which, even if it were entirely separated from the supernatural, would be incomparably the most precious possession of mankind, worth in fact the fruits of all wisdom and learning put together.


 
US President John Adams...


> I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed in blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations. If I were an atheist of the other sect, who believe, or pretend to believe that all is ordered by chance, I should believe that chance had ordered the Jews to preserve and propagate to all mankind the doctrine of a supreme, intelligent, wise, almighty sovereign of the universe, which I believe to be the great essential principle of all morality, and consequently of all civilization.


 
President John Adams...


> They [the Jewish People] are the most glorious nation that ever inhabited this Earth. The Romans and their empire were but a bubble in comparison to the Jews. They have given religion to three-quarters of the globe and have influenced the affairs of mankind more and more happily than any other nation, ancient or modern.



US President Warren G. Harding


> It is impossible for one who has studied at all the service of the Hebrew people to avoid the faith that they will one day be restored to their historic national home and there enter on a new and yet greater phase of their contribution to the advance of humanity.


 
Alexis de Toqueville...


> I studied the Koran a great deal. I came away from that study with the conviction there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as that of Muhammad. So far as I can see, it is the principal cause of the decadence so visible today in the Muslim world and, though less absurd than the polytheism of old, its social and political tendencies are in my opinion to be feared, and I therefore regard it as a form of decadence rather than a form of progress in relation to paganism itself.



Winston Churchill...


> How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
> 
> The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
> 
> ...


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Ishmaels-House-History-Muslim-Lands/dp/0300167156/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1291573741&sr=1-1]Amazon.com: In Ishmael&#39;s House: A History of Jews in Muslim Lands (9780300167153): Martin Gilbert: Books[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 5, 2010)

How many of those rich "sources" you quote ever visited Area C?


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 5, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> How many of those rich "sources" you quote ever visited Area C?



Have you visited Darfur, champ, where the IslamoNazis you suck off are committing genocide?  



> The genocide in Darfur has claimed 400,000 lives and displaced over 2,500,000 people. More than one hundred people continue to die each day; five thousand die every month.
> 
> Since February 2003, the Sudanese government in Khartoum and the government-sponsored Janjaweed militia have used rape, displacement, organized starvation, threats against aid workers and mass murder. Violence, disease, and displacement continue to kill thousands of innocent Darfurians every month.


Genocide in Darfur, Sudan | Darfur Scorecard
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-ojg9UjMk0[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 6, 2010)

Do you invest in Darfur?


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 6, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Do you invest in Darfur?



You suck off the IslamoNazis committing genocide in Darfur.



> The genocide in Darfur has claimed 400,000 lives and displaced over 2,500,000 people. More than one hundred people continue to die each day; five thousand die every month.
> 
> Since February 2003, the Sudanese government in Khartoum and the government-sponsored Janjaweed militia have used rape, displacement, organized starvation, threats against aid workers and mass murder. Violence, disease, and displacement continue to kill thousands of innocent Darfurians every month.


Genocide in Darfur, Sudan | Darfur Scorecard
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-ojg9UjMk0[/ame]



While, Israel is the only country providing safe haven to Darfur refugees, seen here proudly waiving Israeli flags...
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGa2_8tgsKw[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 7, 2010)

Israeli Apartheid Symbols:

"The Separation Wall that the Israeli government is said to be building for security reasons stands at 8 meters (25feet) high.

"This wall will approximately affect 90,700 Palestinian residents of 32 villages in the Qalqilya area and will isolate and thus effectively confiscate 47,020 dunums of land (11,755 acres) and will destroy another 7,750 dunums (1,937 acres). 

"Six of the villages, with approximately 1,000 residents, will be completely trapped between the Wall and the 1967 Green Line; isolating them from the West Bank and effectively annexing them to Israel without being granted citizenship or legal rights. 

"Land, which is the base of the economic lifeline of this area, is being taken away as it&#8217;s people watch helplessly."


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 7, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Israeli Aparthe Symbols[/URL




Bogus website.  

No wonder you have zero reputational points.

The UN ranks Israel among the 15 best countries to live in (out of 170 countries) in the world and with the highest qualities of life and human development, emphasizing political and cultural freedom and equality in education, healthcare, life expectancy and income, ahead of England, Spain, Greece, Italy, Finland, Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg and Austria 

http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/


> Human Development is a development paradigm that is about much more than the rise or fall of national incomes. It is about creating an environment in which people can develop their full potential and lead productive, creative lives in accord with their needs and interests. People are the real wealth of nations. Development is thus about expanding the choices people have to lead lives that they value. And it is thus about much more than economic growth, which is only a means if a very important one of enlarging peoples choices.
> 
> Fundamental to enlarging these choices is building human capabilities the range of things that people can do or be in life. The most basic capabilities for human development are to lead long and healthy lives, to be knowledgeable, to have access to the resources needed for a decent standard of living and to be able to participate in the life of the community. Without these, many choices are simply not available, and many opportunities in life remain inaccessible.


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 8, 2010)

"Yah"

Israel's wonderful unless you're a gentile renter...

"*Jews must not rent homes to 'gentiles'*. 

"That was the religious decree issued this week by at least 50 of Israel&#8217;s leading rabbis, *many of them employed by the state as municipal religious leaders.* 

"Jews should first warn, then 'ostracise' fellow Jews who fail to heed the directive, the rabbis declared.

"The decree is the latest in a wave of racist pronouncements from some of Israel&#8217;s most influential rabbis."

Moses and Mohammad would approve.

Israel's Racist Rabbis


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 8, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "Yah"
> 
> Israel's wonderful unless you're a gentile renter...



Lying, again, alcoholic?

The UN ranks Israel among the 15 best countries to live in (out of 170 countries) in the world and with the highest qualities of life, emphasizing political and cultural freedom and equality in education, healthcare, life expectancy and income, ahead of England, Spain, Greece, Italy, Finland, Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg and Austria 

Statistics | Human Development Reports (HDR) | United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)


> Human Development is a development paradigm that is about much more than the rise or fall of national incomes. It is about creating an environment in which people can develop their full potential and lead productive, creative lives in accord with their needs and interests. People are the real wealth of nations. Development is thus about expanding the choices people have to lead lives that they value. And it is thus about much more than economic growth, which is only a means if a very important one of enlarging peoples choices.
> 
> Fundamental to enlarging these choices is building human capabilities the range of things that people can do or be in life. The most basic capabilities for human development are to lead long and healthy lives, to be knowledgeable, to have access to the resources needed for a decent standard of living and to be able to participate in the life of the community. Without these, many choices are simply not available, and many opportunities in life remain inaccessible.


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 9, 2010)

Would these rabbis have rented to Harry?

"Two months ago, Mr Yosef explained the logic behind his views and those of like-minded rabbis.

&#8220;Goyim [non-Jews] were born only to serve us.&#8221; Explaining why God allowed non-Jews long lives, he added: 'Imagine that your donkey would die, you&#8217;d lose your income. [The donkey] is your servant. &#8230; That&#8217;s why he [the gentile] gets a long life, to work well for the Jew.'&#8221;

"Mr Yosef&#8217;s remarks against 'gentiles' were greeted with respectful silence by Israeli officials and most of the media..."

Where's the love, rabbi?

Israel's Racist Rabbis


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Would these rabbis have rented to Harry?
> 
> "Two months ago, Mr Yosef explained the logic behind his views and those of like-minded rabbis.



The UN ranks Israel among the 15 best countries to live in (out of 170 countries) in the world and with the highest qualities of life, emphasizing political and cultural freedom and equality in education, healthcare, life expectancy and income, ahead of England, Spain, Greece, Italy, Finland, Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg and Austria 

Statistics | Human Development Reports (HDR) | United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)



> Human Development is a development paradigm that is about much more than the rise or fall of national incomes. It is about creating an environment in which people can develop their full potential and lead productive, creative lives in accord with their needs and interests. People are the real wealth of nations. Development is thus about expanding the choices people have to lead lives that they value. And it is thus about much more than economic growth, which is only a means if a very important one of enlarging peoples choices.
> 
> Fundamental to enlarging these choices is building human capabilities the range of things that people can do or be in life. The most basic capabilities for human development are to lead long and healthy lives, to be knowledgeable, to have access to the resources needed for a decent standard of living and to be able to participate in the life of the community. Without these, many choices are simply not available, and many opportunities in life remain inaccessible.


----------



## Ropey (Dec 9, 2010)

I'm far more worried about those who explode themselves around people, killing women, children, etc. etc.

Search for Suicide Jews and Suicide Muslims. 

Suicide Jews brings up the times when Jews killed themselves rather than convert.

Suicide Muslims brings up a horse of a different color.











georgephillip said:


> Would these rabbis have rented to Harry?
> 
> "Two months ago, Mr Yosef explained the logic behind his views and those of like-minded rabbis.
> 
> ...


----------



## docmauser1 (Dec 10, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _Jews must not rent homes to 'gentiles'._


Don't mustafas have all their renting needs in, say, Ramallah? Of course, they do. Jooze don't need any of their palisturdian facts-on-the-ground antics, when a so-called "student" palisturdian rents an apartment, pays for three (or so) months, then stoops paying rent altogether, and when faced with an eviction order shows up with "human-rights" attorneys and his extended asshole family, appealing to the supreme court, claiming persecution. Joze are fast learners.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 10, 2010)

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > _Jews must not rent homes to 'gentiles'._
> ...



Christians can rent in Israel.  In Muslim countries, not so much.

*Israeli Arab Muslim Journalist Khaled Abu Toameh: Muslim Genocide Of Christians In Middle East*


> *It is obvious by now that the Christians in the Middle East are an "endangered species."  Christians in Arab countries are no longer being persecuted; they are now being slaughtered and driven out of their homes and lands. Those who for many years turned a blind eye to complaints about the persecution of Christians in the Middle East now owe the victims an apology. Now it is clear to all that these complaints were not "Jewish propaganda."
> 
> The war of genocide against Christians in the Middle East can no longer be treated as an "internal affair" of Iraq or Egypt or the Palestinians. What the West needs to understand is that radical Islam has declared jihad not only against Jews, but also against Christians.  In Iraq, Egypt and the Palestinian territories, Christians are being targeted almost on a daily basis by Muslim fundamentalists and secular dictators.*
> 
> ...


The West, Islam and Sharia: Muslim Genocide of Christians Throughout Middle East


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 10, 2010)

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > _Jews must not rent homes to 'gentiles'._
> ...


Your fiction skills suck worse than your logic.

Stick to plain drivel


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 10, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



Fakestinians = Fiction

Former PLO Leader Zuheir Mohsen...


> The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.


Zuheir Mohsen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Arab American Journalist Joe Farah...


> There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.
> 
> Palestine has never existed -- before or since -- as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland.


Myths of the Middle East


Arab Commentator Azmi Bishara...


> Well, I dont think there is a Palestinian nation at all. I think there is an Arab nation. I always thought so and I did not change my mind. I do not think there is a Palestinian nation, I think its a colonialist invention - Palestinian nation. When were there any Palestinians? Where did it come from? I think there is an Arab nation. I never turned to be a Palestinian nationalist, despite of my decisive struggle against the occupation. I think that until the end of the 19th century, Palestine was the south of Greater Syria.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3n5-yG-6dU[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 12, 2010)

And where did the gangster state of Israel come from:

Let's ask Harry Truman, JFK and Gore Vidal:

"Sometime in the late 1950s, that world-class gossip and occasional historian, John F. Kennedy, told me how, in 1948, Harry S. Truman had been pretty much abandoned by everyone when he came to run for president. 

"Then an American Zionist brought him *two million dollars in cash, in a suitcase, *aboard his whistle-stop campaign train. 

"'*That's why our recognition of Israel was rushed through so fast*.' 

"As neither Jack nor I was an antisemite (unlike his father and my grandfather) we took this to be just another funny story about Truman and the serene corruption of American politics."

What a surprise.

One GANGSTER state gives birth to lesser gangsters.

Such a deal.

Jewish History, Jewish Religion


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 12, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> And where did the gangster state of Israel come from:
> 
> Let's ask Harry Truman, JFK and Gore Vidal:
> 
> ifamericansknew.



BOGUS website.  No wonder you have zero reputational points, loser  

John F. Kennedy...


> Israel was not created in order to disappear - Israel will endure and flourish. It is the child of hope and the home of the brave. It can neither be broken by adversity nor demoralized by success. It carries the shield of democracy and it honors the sword of freedom.


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 12, 2010)

And JFK never told a lie?

Wonder why he didn't mention the $2 million ol' Harry picked up on his campaign express?

Maybe he's a hypocrite, too.


----------



## docmauser1 (Dec 14, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Drivelers, calling drivel. Funny.


----------



## docmauser1 (Dec 14, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _"Sometime in the late 1950s, that world-class gossip and occasional historian, John F. Kennedy, told me how, in 1948, Harry S. Truman had been pretty much abandoned by everyone when he came to run for president._


Shahak was smoking, of course.


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 14, 2010)

That quote comes from Gore Vidal.

Does it suck going through life as a dyslexic racist?


----------



## docmauser1 (Dec 16, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _That quote comes from Gore Vidal._


Was he babbling about "global heating"?


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 18, 2010)

No...hasty inventions and unlikely patrons, actually.

"But I will say that the *hasty invention of Israel* has poisoned the political and intellectual life of the USA, Israel's *unlikely patron*.

"Unlikely, because no other minority in American history has ever hijacked so much money from the American taxpayers in order to invest in a 'homeland'. 

"It is as if the American taxpayer had been obliged to support the Pope in his reconquest of the Papal States simply because one third of our people are Roman Catholic. 

"Had this been attempted, there would have been a great uproar and Congress would have said no. 

"*But a religious minority of less than two per cent* has bought or intimidated seventy senators (the necessary two thirds to overcome an unlikely presidential veto) while enjoying support of the media."

Jewish History, Jewish Religion


----------



## Ropey (Dec 19, 2010)

Ropey said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > Most of the Jews posting here talk out of the cozy comfort of their American homes, myself included.  Yet they are willing to fight to the last Israeli.  You, however, are an Israeli and are on the front lines.  You have fought toe-to-toe against the real murderous, barbarous Arabs in actual battle.  Thank you for protecting Jews all over the world.
> ...






georgephillip said:


> Speaking only for myself, I think my obsession with Israel and Jews...


_Obsession is an illness George_​
Every step that you take. A soul killer George...


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 20, 2010)

For the last 3000 years your book has been a big part of the Big Lie the rich have used to enslave humanity.

Does that make you feel special, Slave?


----------



## Ropey (Dec 20, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> For the last 3000 years your book has been a big part of the Big Lie the rich have used to enslave humanity.
> 
> Does that make you feel special, Slave?



Aww. poor Georgie...



georgephillip said:


> Speaking only for myself, I think my obsession with Israel and Jews...


_Obsession is an illness George_​


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 20, 2010)

Awwww.

Racist Ropey.

"Although the major issues in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are unrelated to religion and are actually questions of international law and human rights, religious fanaticism does play a role in perpetuating the conflict. 

"*Particularly, Jewish chauvinism and fundamentalism*, paired with Israel&#8217;s financial and military power, present significant challenges to efforts for a just resolution. 

"While there are numerous Jewish organizations &#8211; both within Israel and elsewhere &#8211; opposing this extremism, they are, as yet, much less influential than their opponents."

Religious Discrimination


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 20, 2010)

> Although the major issues in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are unrelated to religion...



That is true, however, some like to smokescreen the issues by talking endlessly about religion.


----------



## Ropey (Dec 21, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Awwww.
> 
> Racist Ropey.



I'm the racist. Look at my sig....

LMAO  

When is Marc coming back? I miss the guy... 

I now understand Marc...


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 22, 2010)

Do you understand Marc is a racist?


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 22, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Awwww.
> 
> "Although the major issues in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are unrelated to religion



Wrong, clueless one.  No wonder you have 0 reputational points.  

Read, learn, dummy...

Muwatta Imam Malik... 


> Umar b. Abd al-Aziz reported that the last statement made by the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) was: O Lord, perish the Jews and the Christians. They made churches of the graves of their Prophets. Beware, there should be no two faiths in Arabia.



Sahih Bukhari, 4:52:177...


> The Day of Judgment will not have come until you fight with the Jews, and the stones and the trees behind which a Jew will be hiding will say: 'O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him!


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 23, 2010)

*Second Genesis?*

"Sometime in the late 1950s, that world-class gossip and occasional historian, John F. Kennedy, told me how, in 1948, Harry S. Truman had been pretty much abandoned by everyone when he came to run for president. 

"Then an *American Zionist brought him two million dollars in cash, in a suitcase,* aboard his whistle-stop campaign train.

"'That's why our recognition of Israel was rushed through so fast.' 

"As neither Jack nor I was an antisemite (unlike his father and my grandfather) we took this to be just another funny story about Truman and the serene corruption of American politics.

Jewish History, Jewish Religion


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 23, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> *Second Genesis?*
> 
> "Sometime in the late 1950s, that world-class gossip and occasional historian, John F. Kennedy, told me how, in 1948, Harry S. Truman had been pretty much abandoned by everyone when he came to run for president.



John F. Kennedy...


> Israel was not created in order to disappear - Israel will endure and flourish. It is the child of hope and the home of the brave. It can neither be broken by adversity nor demoralized by success. It carries the shield of democracy and it honors the sword of freedom.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 23, 2010)

Israel has no appeared yet.

Where is its land? Where are its borders?


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 23, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel has no appeared yet.
> 
> Where is its land? Where are its borders?



As the League of Nations has designated, from the Jordan River to the Med. Sea, from Dan to Beersheba.

Now, even you know, dummy.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 23, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Israel has no appeared yet.
> ...



The Parties to the present Agreement, responding to the Security Council resolution of 16 November 1948 calling upon them, as a further provisional measure under Article 40 of the Charter of the United Nations and in order to facilitate the transition from the present truce to* permanent peace in Palestine*, to negotiate an Armistice; having decided to enter into negotiations under United Nations Chairmanship concerning the implementation of the Security Council resolutions of 4 and 16 November 1948; (2) and having appointed representatives empowered to negotiate and conclude an Armistice Agreement;

The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 23, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



"Oh, Allah, Kill All Jews And Americans"
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7rls9eRKyo[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 24, 2010)

"Article I

With a view to promoting the return to permanent peace in Palestine and in recognition of the importance in this regard of mutual assurances concerning the future military operations of the Parties, the following principles, which shall be fully observed by both Parties during the Armistice, are hereby affirmed:

1. The injunction of the Security Council *against resort to military force in the settlement of the Palestine question* shall henceforth be scrupulously respected by both Parties.

2. No aggressive action by the armed forces-land, sea, or air-of either Party shall be undertaken, planned, or threatened against the people or the armed forces of the other; it being understood that the use of the term 'planned' in this context has no bearing on normal staff planning as generally practiced in military organizations.

3. The right of each Party to its security and freedom from fear of attack by the armed forces of the other shall be fully respected.

4. The establishment of an armistice between the armed forces of the two Parties is accepted as an indispensable step toward the liquidation of armed conflict and the restoration of peace in Palestine."


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 24, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "Article I
> 
> With a view to promoting the return to permanent peace in Palestine and in recognition of the importance in this regard of mutual assurances concerning the future military operations of the Parties,



Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.  

Too bad you've been on a boozer since '48.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 24, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> 4. The establishment of an armistice between the armed forces of the two Parties is accepted as an indispensable step toward the liquidation of armed conflict and the restoration of peace in Palestine."



The League of Nations established "Palestine" as the Jewish homeland in 1922, dummy.  

No wonder you have 0 reputational points.

Time to move on.  



> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country


The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate


----------



## docmauser1 (Dec 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> _The Parties to the present Agreement, responding to the Security Council resolution of 16 November 1948 calling upon them, as a further provisional measure under Article 40 of the Charter of the United Nations and in order to facilitate the transition from the present truce to permanent peace in Palestine, to negotiate an Armistice; having decided to enter into negotiations under United Nations Chairmanship concerning the implementation of the Security Council resolutions of 4 and 16 November 1948; (2) and having appointed representatives empowered to negotiate and conclude an Armistice Agreement;_


Madrasa agitprop teachings, just have to miss, or forget something, like the 1979 egyptian-israeli peace agreement, otherwise madrasa will lose its occupational "credibility", of course


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 25, 2010)

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > _The Parties to the present Agreement, responding to the Security Council resolution of 16 November 1948 calling upon them, as a further provisional measure under Article 40 of the Charter of the United Nations and in order to facilitate the transition from the present truce to permanent peace in Palestine, to negotiate an Armistice; having decided to enter into negotiations under United Nations Chairmanship concerning the implementation of the Security Council resolutions of 4 and 16 November 1948; (2) and having appointed representatives empowered to negotiate and conclude an Armistice Agreement;_
> ...





> Article II The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel in the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine,...
> 
> The Avalon Project : Israel-Egypt Treaty



Hmmm, they did not say the old Egyptian/Israeli international boundary.


----------



## docmauser1 (Dec 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > Madrasa agitprop teachings, just have to miss, or forget something, like the 1979 egyptian-israeli peace agreement, otherwise madrasa will lose its occupational "credibility", of course
> ...


It sure seems hey didn't give a damn about what madrasa agitprop currently would, or wouldn't have liked to be placed in the document. Life doesn't have a reset button, so, arabs should concentrate on getting a life and a job, instead.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...



Well, to be fair, one third of all Arabs and half of all Arab women are illiterate, according to the Arab League, making it hard for the sand rats to get a life and a job.

Hopefully, one day, their allah will make them less ignorant.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 25, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The literacy rate in Palestine for males and females is similar to first world, industrialized nations.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...



Palestine ceased to exist in 1948.  Are you referring to another Palestine in outer space? 

Looks like you're as illiterate as the Arabs.  

Historian Bernard Lewis...


> The Palestine entity, formally established and defined by Britain, was formally abolished in 1948 with the termination of the Mandate.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 25, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



The 1949 UN armistice agreements clearly state that the area was still called Palestine and the it was surrounded by Palestinian borders.

Yes the *1949* armistice agreements.


----------



## docmauser1 (Dec 25, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Well, that makes it easier for travelling madrasa commissars to educate them in virtues of murdering joos and plundering of the jovish property, of course.


Marc39 said:


> _Hopefully, one day, their allah will make them less ignorant._


And the world will have more of their "ideas" in the process.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The armistice was temporary and non-binding.  

The Palestine Mandate establishing "Palestine" as the Jewish homeland is binding.

Now, you know.


----------



## docmauser1 (Dec 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> _The literacy rate in Palestine for males and females is similar to first world, industrialized nations._


Shouldn't they be kissing jovish arse for it, yet?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 25, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



Palestine is the homeland of the Jews as it had always been.

Israel is a foreign entity that has destroyed the homeland of the Jews.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The correct historical geographic name of the land is Judea, from which "Jewish" is derived.

There are no references to "Palestine" in the Hebrew Bible.

"Palestine" was a European invention created by the Romans 1500 years after Jews lived there.

Muzzies are foreign entities originating from Arabia.

Your lesson for the day.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 25, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



So? What is the relevance?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 25, 2010)

The point is that Palestinians are Muslims, Christians, and Jews. None of them, as a religion, claim exclusive rights to Palestine. As a diverse group they do have exclusive rights to Palestine. They are the indigenous population. An important fact is that none of them, including the Jews, wanted a foreign takeover of their country.

This is not an Arab or Muslim versus Jew conflict. It is a Palestinians versus foreigners conflict. The Palestinians be they Muslims, Christians, or Jews have the legal and moral high ground. Palestine is their country. It does not belong to foreigners.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Most with functioning brains understand the relevance.  You'll just have to opt out.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> The point is that Palestinians are Muslims, Christians, and Jews.



Er, wrong, again, uneducated one.

Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis...


> For Arabs, too, the term Palestine was unacceptable, though for other reasons. For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant but not abhorrent in the same way as it was to Jews. The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole.  For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Faith-Power-Religion-Politics-Middle/dp/019514421X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1293299313&sr=1-1]Amazon.com: Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East (9780195144215): Bernard Lewis: Books[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 25, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > The point is that Palestinians are Muslims, Christians, and Jews.
> ...



Er, wrong again.



> The Palestine of 1900 had a total population of c. 600,000. Of these, roughly 75% were Muslim Arabs, roughly 10% Christian Arabs, and the rest were Jews and others.
> 
> Table of Contents and Excerpt, Ayalon, Reading Palestine


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


*[/QUOTE]*Er, wrong, again.

Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis...


> After the Ottoman conquest in 1516-17, Palestine was no longer used by Muslims, for whom it had never meant more than an administrative sub-district, and it had been forgotten even in that limited sense.  In the final phase of this rule before the British conquest, Palestine was part of Beirut.





> At first, the country of which Palestine was a part was felt to be Syria.  In Ottoman times, that is, immediately before the coming of the British, Palestine had indeed been a part of a larger Syrian whole from which it was in no way distinguished whether by language, culture, education, administration, political allegiance, or any other significant respect.





> The Palestinian Arabs' basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or -- for some -- Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after 30 years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine.


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Middle-East-Bernard-Lewis/dp/0684832801/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1288529772&sr=8-5]Amazon.com: The Middle East (9780684832807): Bernard Lewis: Books[/ame]

Just so you know, since you're so utterly clueless, the author of the book you posted is not an historian.  He's a politician.

In contrast, Dr. Bernard Lewis is the foremost Middle East historian of today, perhaps, of any time in history.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 25, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



More useless smoke from Mr. Irrelevant.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Translation:  I OWN You, as always.  

Fetch my slippers, dog.


----------



## docmauser1 (Dec 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> _The 1949 UN armistice agreements clearly state that the area was still called Palestine and the it was surrounded by Palestinian borders._


Where in the text of, say, Israeli-Jordanian armistice agreement are "Palestinian borders" stated?


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > _The 1949 UN armistice agreements clearly state that the area was still called Palestine and the it was surrounded by Palestinian borders._
> ...



Irrelevant.  The armistice agreements were temporary and non-binding

Stephen Schwebel, Legal Scholar and Former President of the International Court of Justice...


> The armistice agreements of 1949 expressly preserved the territorial claims of all parties and did not purport to establish definitive boundaries between them.


 http://www.cambridge.org/gb/knowledge/isbn/item1145545/?site_locale=en_GB


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 25, 2010)

Article IV

2. The basic purpose of the Armistice Demarcation Lines is to delineate the lines beyond which the armed forces of the respective Parties shall not move.

Article V

(d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the southernmost tip of Palestine, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions as surveyed in March 1949 by United Nations observers, and shall run from north to south as delineated on map 1 in annex I to this Agreement. 

The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949

Since most of the armistice lines between Israeli forces and Jordanian forces were inside Palestine, there was little reason to mention Palestine's borders. However, the border between the West Bank and Jordan have changed little if any from there definition in 1922. That is the original border between Palestine and Jordan.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Article IV
> 
> 2. The basic purpose of the Armistice Demarcation Lines is to delineate the lines beyond which the armed forces of the respective Parties shall not move.



Irrelevant.  The armistice agreements were temporary and non-binding.

Stephen Schwebel, Legal Scholar and Former President of the International Court of Justice...


> The armistice agreements of 1949 expressly preserved the territorial claims of all parties and did not purport to establish definitive boundaries between them.


http://www.cambridge.org/gb/knowledge/isbn/item1145545/?site_locale=en_GB


The only legally enforceable document is the Palestine Mandate establishing ALL of "Palestine" as the Jewish homeland.

Eugene Rostow, Legal Scholar and former Dean of the Yale Law School, Under Secretary of State in the Johnson administration, US State Dept Legal Advisor, Drafter of UN Res. 242 pertaining to Israeli land in the West Bank...


> The British Mandate recognized the right of the Jewish people to "close settlement" in the whole of the Mandated territory [Palestine].   The Jewish right of settlement in Palestine west of the Jordan river, that is, in Israel, the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, was made unassailable. That right has never been terminated and cannot be terminated except by a recognized peace between Israel and its neighbors. And perhaps not even then, in view of Article 80 of the U.N. Charter, "the Palestine article," which provides that "nothing in the Charter shall be construed ... to alter in any manner the rights whatsoever of any states or any peoples or the terms of existing international instruments...


Resolved: are the settlements legal? Israeli West Bank policies


Your law lesson for the day.


----------



## docmauser1 (Dec 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> _Since most of the armistice lines between Israeli forces and Jordanian forces were inside Palestine, there was little reason to mention Palestine's borders._


Essentially meaning that, if something doesn't exist in the text, the arab propaganda will imagine it does and then will proceed touting it as fact.


P F Tinmore said:


> _However, the border between the West Bank and Jordan have changed little if any from there definition in 1922._


Which is the year, in which Churchill placed the hashemite tribe from the arabian peninsula within the borders of the mandate palestine. A big no-no for an arab agitprop to ever mention.


P F Tinmore said:


> _That is the original border between Palestine and Jordan._


There's no _original border between Palestine and Jordan_ - Jordan sits *inside* the mandate palestine.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Since most of the armistice lines between Israeli forces and Jordanian forces were inside Palestine, there was little reason to mention Palestine's borders. However, the border between the West Bank and Jordan have changed little if any from there definition in 1922. That is the original border between Palestine and Jordan.



Wrong, as usual.  

"Palestine's" borders for the Jewish homeland were established in 1922 by the League of Nations, from the Jordan River to the Med. Sea and from Galilee to the Negev.


> North. &#8211; From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.
> 
> East. &#8211; From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya&#8217;pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.
> 
> ...


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Israel-History-Martin-Gilbert/dp/0688123635/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1293304801&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: Israel: A History (9780688123635): Martin Gilbert: Books[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 25, 2010)

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > _Since most of the armistice lines between Israeli forces and Jordanian forces were inside Palestine, there was little reason to mention Palestine's borders._
> ...



Neither Palestine nor Jordan dispute their borders.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



I can't seem to find "Palestine" on this UN map...
http://www.un.org/Depts/Cartographic/map/profile/israel.pdf


Maybe, because "Palestine" ceased to exist in 1948  

Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis...


> The Palestine entity, formally established and defined by Britain, was formally abolished in 1948 with the termination of the Mandate.




Unless, you are referring to another Palestine in outer space?


----------



## Ropey (Dec 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Neither Palestine nor Jordan dispute their borders.



There is no Palestine to dispute any borders. Perhaps if the Arabians who call themselves Palestinians but who are not genetically different than Jordanian "Palestinians", Lebanese "Palestinians" and Syrian "Palestinians" actually did more to build a country than try to demolish another, they would get somewhere.

Seemingly not.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The "Palestine" the Romans invented?  That would make Palestine Italian.  

Would you like some hummus with your pasta?  

Middle East historian Bernard Lewis...


> Official Roman usage of the name Palestine to designate the area of the former Jewish kingdom seems to date from after the Jewish risings and their suppression.  The Emperor Hadrian made a determined attempt to stamp out the embers not only of the revolt but of Jewish nationhood and statehood.
> 
> It would seem that the name Judaea was abolished at the same time as Jerusalem and the country renamed Palestina or Syria-Palestina with the same intention to obliterate its historic Jewish identity.


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Middle-East-Bernard-Lewis/dp/0684832801/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1293309058&sr=8-4]Amazon.com: The Middle East (9780684832807): Bernard Lewis: Books[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 25, 2010)

Ropey said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Neither Palestine nor Jordan dispute their borders.
> ...





> "Palestinians" actually did more to build a country...



Do you mean like the cheese factor Israel bombed a few weeks ago that was a replacement for the one Israel bombed a couple of years ago?


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Maybe, LOSER, if you lazyass Pallies had a normal culture, instead of being refugees for 60 years and blowing yourselves up, you wouldn't be sitting around blaming your pathetic lives on the Jews.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

*How To Be A Proud Palestinian Loser* 

Golly gee, I am SOOOO proud to be a Palestinian Arab from the West Bank. Let me tell you the reasons why I have such warm, fuzzy feelings about my people and culture: 

1. There is no such thing as Mothers Day. No worry about cards, gifts, and expensive meals. There is no honor in being a woman in our culture, so there is no reason to devote a day to her. We do, however, get to enjoy watching our fathers beat our mothers senseless for the slightest real or imagined infraction. Also, if Dad suspects that Mom spoke to a strange man in the street, he gets to kill her to preserve the family honor! 

2. Weapons. Every child, from the time he can grasp an object, is trained to feel comfortable with a rifle or pistol in his hand. And every Palestinian has a weapon: a gun, a rocket launcher, a pound of C-4. What good are hands if they aren't used to kill? 

3. Hate. Boy, we love to hate. Hate is the very basis and foundation of our culture. From the time a child is old enough to understand language, we teach him to hate. Hate Jews, hate the West, hate his fellow man, and most of all, hate himself. We have no love songs, we do not preach love, the word love does not appear anywhere in our society. Hate is the fuel that runs our motors. 

4. Death. The moment a Palestinian Arab child is born, his parents begin to plan his death. How will he die? Will he be struck by an Israeli bullet while being used as a human shield by Palestinian gunmen? Will he get shot while throwing rocks at Jewish soldiers? Will he be packed with explosives and sent to blow himself up, killing others? Or will he merely be one of the many Palestinians murdered by other Palestinians in the normal course of daily life in 
the death-culture of the Palestinian Arabs? Who knows? That's part of the thrill. 

5. Unemployment. Palestinians used to have jobs, working in Israel. But then, our leaders had a brilliant idea: suicide bombings! For their own protection, Israel had to close its borders, preventing Palestinians from going to their jobs, so they could sit around unemployed and blame the Jews for it. What great fun to be your own worst enemy!


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

*How To Be A Proud Palestinian Loser  *

6. Martyrdom. Who in their right mind wants to be a martyr? Among normal people, a martyr complex is considered immature and obnoxious, if not downright crazy. With us, it's the central syndrome of our society! Hey, look at me, I'm gonna kill myself and become admired! And then, when we do kill ourselves, instead of being considered pathetic, we DO get admired! It's a whole complete cycle of sickness! American kids collect baseball cards; Palestinian kids collect martyr cards (really! no joke!). 

7. A feeling of entitlement. When Israel came into being, we declared war. We lost. We fought again. We lost. We fought again. We lost. Israel had the right to kill us all (we sure would kill all of them if we got the chance). Instead, they allow us to live on land they conquered. But we can't leave that alone. We have to claim entitlement to live on land that we lost in 6 wars. Since when does the loser of a war get to claim the land he fought over? They don't. But we do. Not only that, but we happily kill our kids over it! Hey, what's more important -- a chunk of dirt, or some worthless kid who isn't going to amount to anything anyway? 

8. Uselessness. The Jews have won more Nobel Prizes than all other ethnic groups combined. Their contributions to science, art, literature and the humanities is far out of proportion to their population. What have Palestinians produced? Nothing! Not a thing. We don't do anything productive. We're too busy rioting and killing and chanting and screaming and calling for everyone's death. And we blame the Jews for it, as though the Jews stop us from being productive. 

9. Friends. The Palestinian people sure know how to pick 'em. Saadam Hussein. The Taliban. Adolf Hitler. You name a psychopath, and we embrace him. And look who our supporters are! The American Nazi Party. The KKK. Just check their websites and see how they stand in solidarity with us. When you support the Palestinian "cause," you're in real good company. Bring your white sheet! 

10. Freedom. The biggest laugh in the world is when people call us "freedom fighters" or they say we're fighting for our freedom. Take a look at all 22 Arab countries. Do you see any freedom there? Well, that's what our country will be like if we ever get one. It 
will be a dictatorship run by armed, masked thugs who will kill anyone who dissents. Just like we are now. Freedom???? LOLOLOLOL The word doesn't even exist in our language. Hey, just like George Orwell said: "Freedom is slavery. Long live big brother!" 

Remember: Israel is bad! 
Its existence keeps reminding us what a bunch of losers we are.

lg colloquium: 10 Reasons To Love Palestine


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 25, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> *How To Be A Proud Palestinian Loser*
> 
> Golly gee, I am SOOOO proud to be a Palestinian Arab from the West Bank. Let me tell you the reasons why I have such warm, fuzzy feelings about my people and culture:
> 
> ...



6. Let the Ziotards steal, bomb, and bulldoze all your stuff.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > *How To Be A Proud Palestinian Loser*
> ...



Keep blaming the Jews for your miserable lives, you fucking sand rat loser.  

Meanwhile, the Jews are splitting the atom.

Wharton School Of Business...


> Despite--or possibly because of--its small size and geopolitical isolation, Israel has developed a global reputation for its cutting-edge high-tech industry.
> 
> Israel today has the second largest number of start-ups in the world, after the US, and the largest number of NASDAQ-listed companies outside North America.
> 
> "Innovation, together with the engineering excellence and the very quick to market production of high-quality products, really makes Israel shine," says Zach Weisfeld, Microsoft Director of Business Development and Strategy.


From Haifa to Herzliya, the Fertile Ground of Israeli Innovation - Knowledge@Wharton


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 25, 2010)

Israel bombed a snack food factory.

I know, I know, there were terrorists hiding in the potato chips.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel bombed a snack food factory.
> 
> I know, I know, there were terrorists hiding in the potato chips.



Muzzies are always getting themselves into trouble.  

Alexis de Toqueville...


> I studied the Koran a great deal. I came away from that study with the conviction there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as that of Muhammad. So far as I can see, it is the principal cause of the decadence so visible today in the Muslim world and, though less absurd than the polytheism of old, its social and political tendencies are in my opinion to be feared, and I therefore regard it as a form of decadence rather than a form of progress in relation to paganism itself.



Winston Churchill...


> How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
> 
> The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
> 
> ...



[ame=http://www.amazon.com/River-War-Sir-Winston-Churchill/dp/1598184253/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288411221&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: The River War (9781598184259): Sir Winston S. Churchill: Books[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 25, 2010)

Israel bombs flour mill.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel bombs flour mill.



You have a bogus Pallywood video of that, like this bogus Pallywood video of a fake funeral in which the "corpse" falls off the stretcher, magically comes back to life and gets back on the stretcher pretending to have been killed by the Israelis?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRz5WnHemkw[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 25, 2010)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5UKLRRM2iE[/ame]


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel bombs flour mill.



Definition of Palestinians: Other Arabs Who Can't Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 25, 2010)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh6nIYoJd_8[/ame]


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

Robert Bernstein, Founder, Human Rights Watch...


> Significantly, Col. Richard Kemp, the former commander of British forces in Afghanistan and an expert on warfare, has said that the Israel Defense Forces in Gaza did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/20/opinion/20bernstein.html?_r=1


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

"We Desire Death Like You Desire Life"
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWIDZ7Jpdqg[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 25, 2010)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwkLlkfgkgE[/ame]


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

*"Oh, Allah, Kill All Jews And Americans"*
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7rls9eRKyo[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 25, 2010)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SctrRTNduK0&feature=related[/ame]


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 25, 2010)

*While IslamoNazis commit genocide in Darfur*...


> The genocide in Darfur has claimed 400,000 lives and displaced over 2,500,000 people. More than one hundred people continue to die each day; five thousand die every month.
> 
> Since February 2003, the Sudanese government in Khartoum and the government-sponsored Janjaweed militia have used rape, displacement, organized starvation, threats against aid workers and mass murder. Violence, disease, and displacement continue to kill thousands of innocent Darfurians every month.


Genocide in Darfur, Sudan | Darfur Scorecard
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-ojg9UjMk0[/ame]



*Israel Is The Only Country Providing Safe Haven To Darfur Refugees.  Here, Darfur refugees wave Israeli flags and praise Israeli democracy...*
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGa2_8tgsKw[/ame]


----------



## docmauser1 (Dec 27, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Of course! *Mandate palestine ist tot!*


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 29, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Israel bombs flour mill.
> ...


Definition of Marc:

Malignant Arrogant Racist Clown (x39)

Watch out for sharks.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 29, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Who is racist, boozer?



> Allah, oh our Lord, vanquish Your enemies, enemies of the religion [Islam] in all places.
> Allah, strike the Jews and their sympathizers,
> the Christians and their supporters,
> the Communists and their adherents.
> Allah, count them and kill them to the last one, and don't leave even one


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjxm3OSy4EE[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 30, 2010)

*The Current Crisis in the Middle East*

"For some time, I've been compelled to arrange speaking engagements long in advance. Sometimes a title is requested for a talk scheduled several years ahead. 

"There is, I've found, one title that always works: '*The current crisis in the Middle East*.' 

"One can't predict exactly what the crisis will be far down the road, but that there will be one is a fairly safe prediction. 

"That will continue to be the case as long as basic problems of the region are not addressed.

"Furthermore, the crises will be serious in what President Eisenhower called '*the most strategically important area in the world.'* 

"In the early post-War years, the US in effect extended the Monroe Doctrine to the Middle East, barring any interference apart from Britain, assumed to be a loyal dependency, and quickly punished when it occasionally got out of hand (as in 1956). 

"The strategic importance of the region lies primarily in its immense petroleum reserves and the global power accorded by control over them; and, crucially, from the huge profits that flow to the Anglo-American rulers, which have been of critical importance for their economies. 

"*It has been necessary to insure that this enormous wealth flows primarily to the West, not to the people of the region*. 

"That is one fundamental problem that will continue to cause unrest and disorder. 

"Another is the Israel-Arab conflict with its many ramifications, which have been closely related to *the major US strategic goal of dominating the region's resources and wealth*." 

No Longer Safe


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 30, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> he Current Crisis in the Middle East  *BOGUS* [/B]



8 out of 10 Israeli Arabs Prefer Israeli Democracy and Freedom To Any Other Country In The World, Including Arab ?Muslims Shitholes
Center for Public Leadership - Coexistence


*I am an Israeli Arab and I support Israel.  *


> *Why?  Because, I can express myself freely.  I'm a free man living in a free country.  With my family situation, if I was living in an Arab country, I will be killed long time ago.  With my mind and my way of living and my way of thinking, I'm surely already have been killed long time ago.
> 
> Why?  Because, I love freedom.  I adore liberty.  And, in Israel, simply, you can express that.  Can you imagine if you were a Jewish man living in an Arab country and Parliament member and trying to curse your country, they will kill you straight away.  Look what Israel is doing with Arabs in Parliament, they listen, it's a democracy, no problem.  They [Arabs] are shouting freely against Israel in the Parliament.  This is the truth.
> *
> ...


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbrIWyEhl8A[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 31, 2010)

*"Threats to Our Interests."*

"For many years, it was claimed the core problem was Soviet subversion and expansionism, the reflexive justification for virtually all policies since the Bolshevik takeover in Russia in 1917. 

"That pretext having vanished, it is now quietly conceded by the White House (March 1990) that in past years, the 'threats to our interests' in the Middle East 'could not be laid at the Kremlin's door'; the doctrinal system has yet to adjust fully to the new requirements. 

"'In the future, we expect that non-Soviet threats to [our] interests will command even greater attention,' the White House continued in its annual plea *to Congress for a huge military budget*. 

"In reality, the '*threat to our interests*,' in the Middle East as elsewhere, had always been *indigenous nationalism*, a fact stressed in internal documents and sometimes publicly."

No Longer Safe


----------



## docmauser1 (Jan 1, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> _Threats to Our Interests._


Any fresh installments, praising Pol Pot, from Chomskin?


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 1, 2011)

*Let's ask "the Bitch"*:

"Golda Meir, considered by Israelis as a great leader and by others as one of history&#8217;s great killers, disputed the facts: 'It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist.'&#8221; 

CounterPunch


----------



## Ropey (Jan 1, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> *Let's ask "the Bitch"*:
> 
> "Golda Meir, considered by Israelis as a great leader and by others as one of historys great killers, disputed the facts: 'It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist.'



Quoted for posterity


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 1, 2011)

*Christian Posterity*

"The Israeli policy of evicting non-Jews has continued for six decades. 

"On June 19, 2008, the Laity Committee in the Holy Land reported in Window Into Palestine that the Israeli Ministry of Interior is taking away the residency rights of Jerusalem Christians who have been reclassified as 'visitors in their own city.'&#8221; 

CounterPunch


----------



## docmauser1 (Jan 2, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> _"On June 19, 2008, the Laity Committee in the Holy Land reported in Window Into Palestine that the Israeli Ministry of Interior is taking away the residency rights of Jerusalem Christians who have been reclassified as 'visitors in their own city.'counterpunch._


Drivel.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 3, 2011)

*Capital "D"..I'm impressed*

Can you Drivel with both hands yet?

"I suspect that the Jews of the USA or of Britain would regard it as antisemitic if Christians would propose that the USA or the United Kingdom should become a 'Christian state', belonging only to citizens officially defined as 'Christians'. 

"The consequence of such doctrine is that Jews converting to Christianity would become full citizens because of their conversion."

Sound reasonably dirvelable?

Jewish History, Jewish Religion


----------



## docmauser1 (Jan 4, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> _Can you Drivel with both hands yet?_


There's so much to learn about the behavioral patterns of my flock here, indeed.


georgephillip said:


> _"The consequence of such doctrine is that Jews converting to Christianity would become full citizens because of their conversion." Sound reasonably dirvelable? shahak.html_


Sounds completely shakable, of course. So, how does one make a conspiracy of the books, that are available freely?


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 8, 2011)

*Maybe Gore knows*

"Unfortunately, the hurried recognition of Israel as a state has resulted in forty-five years of murderous confusion, and the destruction of what Zionist fellow travellers thought would be a pluralistic state &#8211; home to its native population of Muslims, Christians and Jews, as well as a future home to peaceful European and American Jewish immigrants, even the ones who *affected to believe that the great realtor in the sky had given them, in perpetuity, the lands of Judea and Samaria*. 

"Since many of the immigrants were good socialists in Europe, we assumed that they would not allow the new state to become a theocracy, and that the native Palestinians could live with them as equals.

"This was not meant to be. I shall not rehearse the wars and alarms of that unhappy region. 

"But I will say that the hasty invention of Israel has poisoned the political and intellectual life of the USA, Israel's unlikely patron."

Jewish History, Jewish Religion


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jan 8, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> *Let's ask "the Bitch"*:
> 
> "Golda Meir, considered by Israelis as a great leader and by others as one of historys great killers, disputed the facts: 'It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist.'
> 
> CounterPunch



Mrs. Meir wasn't a bitch simply because she was female.  Egypt and Syria attacked Israel in 1973, the only war on her watch.  I have read some of her articles in which she said that the Arab people, as a whole, have an unnatural pre-occupation and obsession with Israel, when they could be so much more productive.  If Israel is overly cautious and paranoid, then it's probably due to their history.  When an Israeli proudly says that Israel will have 78% of Mandated Palestine, and the Palestinians only 22% in a final settlement, this would seem grossly unfair.  But you just cannot separate Palestinans from the larger Arab people, who have so many countries already.  These other Arabs have used the Palestians as political pawns, allowing them to languish in refugee camps, so many years after the fact.  They did this to instill in them a hatred for Israel.  I, for one, would be willing to give up the West Bank, if it would end this conflict once and for all.  But what would happen "the day after"?  Would an independent Palestine invite the Iranians in?  I think the answer to that is yes.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 8, 2011)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > *Let's ask "the Bitch"*:
> ...





> Arab people, as a whole, have an unnatural pre-occupation and obsession with Israel,



It could be because Israel is in Palestine.


----------



## Ropey (Jan 8, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> It could be because Israel is in Palestine.









It could be because you're blind and maybe a little...


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 8, 2011)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > *Let's ask "the Bitch"*:
> ...


*Golda or Goldstone?*

"Not since Golda Meir said she would never forgive the Arabs for *making us kill their children* have such self-righteous, infuriating and damaging statements been made.

"It is fairly certain that the next war will break out at a time and place of Israel&#8217;s choosing. That is the way it has been in all the wars since 1973. 

"We have embarked on three unnecessary wars on Israel&#8217;s initiative because of the 'Golda spirit' of Shavit and those like him, who see war as a legitimate and even desirable weapon.

"The next war will also be a 'Golda war,' like that accursed war in 1973, *which could also have been avoided if not for the spirit of Golda*. 

"Shavit and the other Goldas, busy with self-deception and moral blindness, who incite, repress and lie, who reject every possibility of a just solution &#8211; they are the ones who will bring it, just like its predecessors.

"The Goldas are doing everything possible to avoid a peace agreement. They whine and self-victimize."

The Golda Wars

In 1948 Mandate Palestine less than one out of three inhabitants was Jewish. Why would anyone think they could gerrymander a Jewish majority state in such an environment without requiring a brutal occupation of the majority?


----------



## docmauser1 (Jan 10, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> _"Unfortunately, the hurried recognition of Israel as a state has resulted in forty-five years of murderous confusion, and the destruction of what Zionist fellow travellers thought would be a pluralistic state  home to its native population of Muslims, Christians and Jews, as well as a future home to peaceful European and American Jewish immigrants, even the ones who affected to believe that the great realtor in the sky had given them, in perpetuity, the lands of Judea and Samaria._


Shahak was a driveling dumb fool and like any dumb fool, riding high horsie, he, typically, forgot that, no realtor in the sky had given Judea and Samaria to arabs, like no realtor in the sky had given California to its current occupiers, of course.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 10, 2011)

*Goldstone Did It*

"Those who are to blame for everything have been found: the 'Goldstoners.' 

"Not the occupation, the settlements, Israeli aggressiveness or brutality; just Goldstone. 

"According to Ari Shavit (Haaretz, October 8), the spirit of Judge Richard Goldstone will bring the next war upon us, and it will be called the *Goldstone War*.

"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu this week reiterated that sentiment in amazingly similar terms this week in his speech to the Knesset. 

"Not since Golda Meir said she would never forgive the Arabs for *making us kill their children* have such self-righteous, infuriating and damaging statements been made.

"It is fairly certain that the next war will break out at a time and place of Israel&#8217;s choosing. 

"*That is the way it has been in all the wars since 1973.* 

"We have embarked on three unnecessary wars on Israel&#8217;s initiative because of the 'Golda spirit' of Shavit and those like him, who see war as a legitimate and even desirable weapon."

The Golda Wars..


----------



## docmauser1 (Jan 11, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> _Goldstone Did It_


Who could've thought.


georgephillip said:


> _"Those who are to blame for everything have been found: the 'Goldstoners.'_


Stoners have always been a problem, of course. "We had to do the best we could with the material we had. If this was a court of law, there would have been nothing proven."
Goldstone.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 12, 2011)

*"WAR CRIMES INVESTIGATION*

"A United Nations fact-finding mission investigating the three-week war issued a lengthy, scathing report on Sept. 15, 2009 that concluded that *both the Israeli military and Palestinian armed groups* committed actions amounting to war crimes, and possibly crimes against humanity.

"The four-member mission, led by Justice Richard Goldstone, a widely respected South African judge, also concluded that neither Israel nor the Palestinian groups had carried out any 'credible investigations' into the alleged violations. 

"The Israeli government angrily disputed the report's conclusions."

We all know which side is fighting against an illegal occupation and which side gets richer from said occupation.

As in 7 million US taxpayer dollars per day richer.

Goldstone Report...


----------



## docmauser1 (Jan 12, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> _"The Israeli government angrily disputed the report's conclusions."_


Stoners have always been a problem, of course. "We had to do the best we could with the material we had. If this was a court of law, there would have been nothing proven."
Goldstone.


georgephillip said:


> _We all know which side is fighting against an illegal occupation and which side gets richer from said occupation._


Of course! Aztlán vs. illegal occupation of California!


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 14, 2011)

*Not to mention California's contribution to Iraq's misery*

"Iraq, despite the brutality of Saddam Hussein, was a prosperous country with a highly educated middle class before the war. Its infrastructure was modern and efficient. Iraqis enjoyed a high standard of living. 

"The country did not lack modern conveniences. Things worked. And being in Iraq, as I often was when I covered the Middle East for The New York Times, while unnerving because of state repression, was never a hardship.

"Since our occupation the country has tumbled into dysfunction. Factories, hospitals, power plants, phone service, sewage systems and electrical grids do not work. 

"Iraqis, if they are lucky, get three hours of electricity a day. *Try this in 110-degree heat*. Poverty is endemic. 

"*More than a million Iraqi civilians have been killed.* 

"*Nearly 5 million have been displaced from their homes or are refugees.* 

"The Mercer Quality of Living survey last year *ranked Baghdad last among cities*&#8212;the least livable on the planet. Iraq, which once controlled its own oil, has been forced to turn its oil concessions over to foreign corporations. 

"That is what we have bequeathed to Iraq&#8212;violence, misery and theft."

Do you (also) support the corporate occupation of Iraq?

Chris Hedges...


----------



## docmauser1 (Jan 15, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> _Not to mention California's contribution to Iraq's misery_


Yes! That annual $10 bln. USD, recklessly spent on servicing California's fat illegals with latent deviant tendencies, is ruthlessley taken from the mouths of hungry iraqi children! Paging Bunkme Moonface.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 15, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> *Not to mention California's contribution to Iraq's misery*
> 
> "Iraq, despite the brutality of Saddam Hussein, was a prosperous country with a highly educated middle class before the war. Its infrastructure was modern and efficient. Iraqis enjoyed a high standard of living.
> 
> ...



But we brought "democracy" to Iraq!

We brought election fraud and a puppet government that would enforce the new laws we imposed. We changed the tax rate for the top earners (our friends) from 35% to 15%. Iraq's constitution forbid foreign ownership. We changed it to allow 100% foreign ownership and that 100% of profits could be immediately taken out of the country untaxed.

That oil law, that was a benchmark to ensure that oil wealth be shared. Yes, the Kurds would get 10%, The Shia would get 10%, the Sunni would get 10%, and Bushs rich friends would get 70%.

Yeah, we wonder why they are fighting us.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 15, 2011)

And our "withdrawal" amounts to the Pentagon turning the US occupation over to the State Department which will substitute corporate killers for the US military.

What scares me the most is the possibility we won't develop alternative energy sources in time and ten years from now the US occupation of the Middle East will be the only thing keeping the lights on in the Homeland.


----------



## docmauser1 (Jan 15, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> _But we brought "democracy" to Iraq!
> That oil law, that was a benchmark to ensure that oil wealth be shared. Yes, the Kurds would get 10%, The Shia would get 10%, the Sunni would get 10%, and Bushs rich friends would get 70%._


And what was this bicycle-vegan drivel meant to accomplish?


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 15, 2011)

*Are you oblivious to Iraq's New Dawn?*

*Don't you get it?*

"Michael Prysner, a veteran of the Iraq War and one of the co-founders of March Forward!, *gets it*. 

"His group is one of those organizing the *March 19 protests*. 

"*Prysner joined the Army out of high school in June 2001*. 

"He was part of the Iraq invasion force. He worked during the war in Iraq tracking targets and calling in airstrikes and artillery barrages. 

"He took part in nighttime raids on Iraqi homes. He worked as an interrogator. He did ground surveillance missions and protected convoys. 

"He left the Army in 2005, disgusted by the war and the lies told to sustain it. He has been involved since leaving the military in anti-recruiting drives at high schools and street protests. 

"He was arrested with 130 others in front of the White House during the Dec. 16 anti-war protest organized by Veterans for Peace."

Surely you'll be marching on March 19th?

Bring your donkey.

Chris Hedges...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 15, 2011)

Palestinian children killed in 2000 - 91

Israeli children killed in 2000 - 0

Remember These Children 2000 Memorial


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 16, 2011)

*And What's With the IDF and Head Shots?*

"*In the past 10 years Israeli forces have killed at least 255 Palestinian minors by fire to the head*, and the number may actually be greater, since in many instances the specific bodily location of the lethal trauma is unlisted. 

"In addition, this statistic does not include the many more Palestinian youngsters shot in the head by Israeli soldiers who survived, in one form or another.

"Below is a small sampling of those who died... 

Sami, 12, died of head wounds from IDF gunfire during a demonstration. 

"*Abdul, 9, was killed by IDF gunfire to his head during a funeral*. 

"Ala, 14, died of head wounds from IDF gunfire while on the terrace of his home one hour after injuring an Israeli soldier with a stone. 

"Omar, 11, died of head wounds from IDF gunfire during a demonstration. 

"*Diya, 3 months*, was killed, along with her older brother, by Israeli settler gunfire to her head and back. 

"Bara, 10, was killed by IDF gunfire to his head while near his home. Ayman, 15, was killed by IDF tank fire to his head while farming. 

"Khalil, 11, was killed by IDF tank fire to his head while playing with a friend. 

"Rami, 13, was killed by IDF helicopter fire to his head while playing in front of his house.

"Yaser, 11, died of head wounds from an IDF rubber-coated bullet fired at close range during a demonstration&#8230;"

Shot in the Head


----------



## Ropey (Jan 16, 2011)




----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 16, 2011)

All those people are in Palestine. Who would they be shooting at in Palestine?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 16, 2011)

Ropey said:


>



Ahhh, the lying sack of crap stand with us campaign.

The Goldstone Report found no evidence to back up the human shield allegation.


----------



## Ropey (Jan 16, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



That's not what they were being paid to find.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 16, 2011)

Ropey said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Ropey said:
> ...



They looked into that as a violation of law and specifically stated the there was no evidence. It is just propaganda.


----------



## Ropey (Jan 16, 2011)

> Hamas Admits to Using Women, Children As Human Shields





> CNSNews.com Jerusalem Bureau Chief
> March 14, 2008
> 
> Jerusalem (CNSNews.com) - A Hamas parliamentarian has openly admitted to developing a "death-seeking" culture that uses women, children and the elderly as human shields against Israeli military attacks.
> ...



Hamas Admits To Using Women and Children as Human Shields

And you know it PF. That's where you are even sicker than they are because you use their self-created dead children for your own media splash.

But we see. We know. This time it will be different PF.  

Your cause used to have twenty to thirty minutes to wait for the response. Long enough to take the launchers away and bring up your shields.

Now it is a two to three minutes response. And your cause? 

THEY KNOW IT.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 16, 2011)

The incidence pictured was a voluntary effort by Palestinians to protect a home. They were not being used.

It honked off the Ziotard goons because they could not bomb the house.


----------



## Ropey (Jan 16, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



That's why pictures are important. Nu? 

Goldstone and his paid hatchet men weren't there to see any of this.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 16, 2011)

Ropey said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Ropey said:
> ...



If Israel had any evidence, they should have presented it during the inquiry.


----------



## Ropey (Jan 16, 2011)

Israel presented the evidence. It was not accepted and was sent it back unopened.
*
Click*

As I said. It was a hatchet job.


----------



## Ropey (Jan 16, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> The incidence pictured was a voluntary effort by Palestinians to protect a home. They were not being used.
> 
> It honked off the Ziotard goons because they could not bomb the house.



Voluntary effort by the Hamas who sparked the entire thing up. 

You still don't get it. That's not how you protect your weaponry.

THEY KILL THEIR OWN! And then blame Israel for responding.

Had Israel hit that house with the known launching facility, then who killed the Palestinian women and children? Hamas had nothing to do with it?

Come on PF, are you that dense?

*You don't see that HAMAS should not set their own people as cannon fodder PF.*


----------



## Ropey (Jan 16, 2011)

Ropey said:


> Israel presented the evidence. It was not accepted and was sent it back unopened.
> *
> Click*
> 
> As I said. It was a hatchet job.



Let me be clear.  There is a reason why the Hamas and Hezbollah use the Nazi Salutes. There is a reason why they are not willing to shake hands with Jews and they demand an intermediary to take their hands and put them in the hand of a Jew.

There is a reason why the Israeli report was returned unopened.

All for the same reason.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 16, 2011)

And that reason has nothing to do with malignant parasites who do quite well generating income by stealing land and killing other people's children?

"The publication in Jerusalem of Occupation of the Territories: Israeli Soldiers&#8217; Testimonies 2000-2010&#8212;unprecedented first-hand accounts by over one hundred Israeli soldiers of their experiences while serving in the IDF&#8212;coincides with an appalling yet unsurprising incident I learned of only a few days ago. 

"On Tuesday, December 28, 2010, at 3:00 AM, Hajja Sara Nawaja, a Palestinian grandmother living in a tent with her family in the arid hills of south Hebron, on the occupied West Bank, woke to the sound of dogs barking. 

"She smelled smoke. She discovered that two adjacent tents, which the family used as kitchens, were on fire. She woke her son Ahmad, who managed to remove the gas cylinders from the tents just in time, before they exploded.

"The two tents were burned to the ground. 

"A car was seen driving away from the scene in the direction of the nearby Israeli settlement of Susya."

Hopefully there are Old Testament paybacks for those who do quite well from killing children.

David Shulman


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 16, 2011)

Ropey said:


> Israel presented the evidence. It was not accepted and was sent it back unopened.
> *
> Click*
> 
> As I said. It was a hatchet job.



From your link:
Page 1



> The Paper addresses the context of the Gaza Operation and notes that Israel had both a right and an obligation to take military action against Hamas in Gaza to stop Hamas
> almost incessant rocket and mortar attacks upon thousands of Israeli civilians and its other acts of terrorism.



In the days leading up to Cast Lead, Hamas offered a truce to Israel. Israel rejected it. Cast Lead was not necessary with a truce offer on the table.

Israeli settlers are not legally considered civilians.



> Israel was bombarded by some 12,000 rockets and mortar shells between
> 2000 and 2008, including nearly 3,000 rockets and mortar shells in 2008 alone.



A drop in the bucket compared to the Israeli attacks on Gaza over the same period.



> These deliberate attacks caused deaths, injuries, and extensive property
> damage; forced businesses to close; and terrorised tens of thousands of residents into
> abandoning their homes.



Did Israel forget to mention that the Negev Brigade chased the inhabitants out of the Palestinian village of Najd, destroyed the village, and built the settlement of Sderot on its ruins? Yes, I believe they did.



> Hamas also orchestrated numerous suicide bombings against Israeli civilians and amassed an extensive armed force of more than 20,000 armed operatives in Gaza.



The Palestinians stopped bombing of civilians years before Cast Lead. I cant see where that can be used as a justification.


----------



## Ropey (Jan 16, 2011)

That is one of the most incoherent responses I have read. You ask and answer your own questions in the above? 

Then you make your own indictments on your own answered questions? 

Now I understand why no one discusses with you but the obsessive George...


----------



## Ropey (Jan 16, 2011)

*Back to reality PF.
*
So they need to quit putting their young around their snipers and fighters. Then they take pictures of the young dead "shield" with a mother crying and send it to you and your sites.

We, in Israel see the truth though.

The abve *children *are not being forced PF.

But HAMAS is indoctrinating them to WANT to be killed for media purposes.

Then setting their deaths up and using you to post splashes for media.

You are part and parcel of that sickness PF. You play your part.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 16, 2011)

Ropey said:


> That is one of the most incoherent responses I have read. You ask and answer your own questions in the above?
> 
> Then you make your own indictments on your own answered questions?
> 
> Now I understand why no one discusses with you but the obsessive George...



I notice that you made no mention of anything I posted that you consider to be incorrect.


----------



## Ropey (Jan 16, 2011)

Why argue with rhetoric?

As soon as you say that settlers are not civilians and Israel can not exist, our discussion is over.

I'm just showing what is really happening. There is no discussion here.


----------



## Ropey (Jan 16, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvP4MZtKJ4w]Hamas Evil, Hummus Good. Maybe that's what the Palestinians thought they were voting for? Hummus?[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 16, 2011)

Ropey said:


> Why argue with rhetoric?
> 
> As soon as you say that settlers are not civilians and Israel can not exist, our discussion is over.
> 
> I'm just showing what is really happening. There is no discussion here.



Look it up!


----------



## Ropey (Jan 16, 2011)




----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 16, 2011)

Ropey said:


> *Back to reality PF.
> *
> So they need to quit putting their young around their snipers and fighters. Then they take pictures of the young dead "shield" with a mother crying and send it to you and your sites.
> 
> ...



Do you realize how ridiculous your pictures look? Particularly number three. People are just standing around. One has his arms crossed. Another has one foot up and his thumb hooked in his pocket. Another has his rifle in a sling over his shoulder. Another is holding his rifle in one hand, pointed down, with his other had by his side.

None of these people look like they are being shot at.


----------



## Ropey (Jan 16, 2011)




----------



## Ropey (Jan 16, 2011)




----------



## Ropey (Jan 16, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > *Back to reality PF.
> ...



They want to be martyrs. If they could die by running out there, they would. They are educated for this from very young.

The Fellow with the gun is clearly shown.

Of course you don't want to believe that your heros kill their own.

Do the ones on the rooftop look worried?  You said they did this on purpose. They could have all died had Israel attacked. They were ready.

So are they in these pictures.

PF? Your own words indict you.

Wake up PF. Hamas have said they do this. Videos showing the leadership saying that this is what they do.



			
				PF said:
			
		

> The incidence pictured was a voluntary effort by Palestinians to protect a home. They were not being used.



You are too much.


----------



## Ropey (Jan 16, 2011)

We All Wish To Die As Martyrs

In that group of people. The ones that die? Their immediate family is taken care of in perpetuity. Not only have they been indoctrinated, but they are rewarded for seeking to die with eagerness.

So, are these civilians when you say Israeli settlers are not?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 16, 2011)

Ropey said:


> We All Wish To Die As Martyrs
> 
> In that group of people. The ones that die? Their immediate family is taken care of in perpetuity. Not only have they been indoctrinated, but they are rewarded for seeking to die with eagerness.
> 
> So, are these civilians when you say Israeli settlers are not?



Good question. Palestine has no military. So you could say that they are all civilians. Now to make it legitimate to kill Palestinians it is necessary to create different catagories of civilians. To Israel, anyone who resists the occupation is a legitimate target. The international community seems to agree with this.

Israeli settlers are integrel, necessary, and active members of the illegal occupation. If there were no settlers there would be no Israel and there would be no occupation. It seems that this status removes them from the protection granted to civilians.

This is not just my opinion.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 18, 2011)

If Israeli settlers have no legal right under international law to claim land in occupied Palestine, they are thieves willing to commit murder to advance their crime.

The SWIFT way of ending this occupation still starts in Brussels:

"If international civil society is serious about urgently ending Israel&#8217;s violations of Palestinian rights, including ending the occupation, *then suspension of SWIFT transactions* to and from Israeli banks offers an instrument to help bring about a peaceful resolution of an intractable conflict... 

"Although access to New York banks remains essential for foreign exchange transactions because of the role of the dollar, interbank transfer instructions are conducted through the *Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT)*, which is based in Belgium... 

"*SWIFT links 8,740 financial institutions in 209 countries.* 

"Without access to SWIFT and its interbank payment network, countries are unable either to pay for imports or to receive payment for exports. 

*"In short, no payment - no trade."*

And Apartheid Israel vanishes like White Only South Africa.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 18, 2011)

*True or False?*

"Prior to the 1948 war, Palestinian Christians and Muslims were a two-third majority of the population of Palestine, who owned and operated 93% of Palestine's lands?"

Care to Quiz Yourself?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 19, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> *True or False?*
> 
> "Prior to the 1948 war, Palestinian Christians and Muslims were a two-third majority of the population of Palestine, who owned and operated 93% of Palestine's lands?"
> 
> Care to Quiz Yourself?



Don't forget that there were some indigenous Palestinian Jews. They were, and still are, opposed to the creation of Israel inside Palestine.


----------



## signelect (Jan 19, 2011)

I think that what I read says that all of it is true and that all governments are beholding to some other entity.  There have been rumors some proven and some not that their were Corporate heads who were pulling strings in Washington during WWII.  I suspect it is true and still going on.  We have allowed a system to develop where our so called leaders are ALL for sales.  If you go back, way back, in history you find this same pattern to be true.  Judas was paid the silver so the people in power did not have to get their hands dirty getting rid of someone who was in the way.  It is always about control.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 19, 2011)

*Gore Vidal and JFK would agree:*

"Sometime in the late 1950s, that world-class gossip and occasional historian, John F. Kennedy, told me how, in 1948, *Harry S. Truman* had been pretty much abandoned by everyone when he came to run for president. 

"*Then an American Zionist brought him two million dollars in cash*, in a suitcase, aboard his whistle-stop campaign train.

"'*That's why our recognition of Israel was rushed through so fast.*' 

"As neither Jack nor I was an antisemite (unlike his father and my grandfather) we took this to be just another funny story about *Truman and the serene corruption of American politics*.

Jewish History, Jewish Religion


----------



## Ropey (Jan 19, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvP4MZtKJ4w]Hamas Evil, Hummus Good. Maybe that's what the Palestinians thought they were voting for? Hummus?[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 22, 2011)

*More Gore*

"Unfortunately, the hurried recognition of Israel as a state has resulted in forty-five years of murderous confusion, and the destruction of what Zionist fellow travellers thought would be a pluralistic state &#8211; home to its native population of Muslims, Christians and Jews, as well as a future home to peaceful European and American Jewish immigrants, even the ones who *affected to believe* that the great realtor in the sky had given them, in perpetuity, the lands of *Judea and Samaria*. 

"Since many of the immigrants were good socialists in Europe, we assumed that they would not allow the new state to become *a theocracy*, and that the native Palestinians could live with them *as equals*.

"This was not meant to be. I shall not rehearse the wars and alarms of that unhappy region. 

"But I will say that the hasty invention of Israel has poisoned the political and intellectual life of the USA, Israel's unlikely patron."

Have you *personally* ever met a "native Palestinian" you regarded as your equal?

Or is that trolling?

Jewish History, Jewish Religion


----------



## Ropey (Jan 22, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > We All Wish To Die As Martyrs
> ...



Just terrorists?


----------



## Ropey (Jan 22, 2011)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Since most of the armistice lines between Israeli forces and Jordanian forces were inside Palestine, there was little reason to mention Palestine's borders. However, the border between the West Bank and Jordan have changed little if any from there definition in 1922. That is the original border between Palestine and Jordan.
> ...



Yes, it's pretty clear.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 22, 2011)

Ropey said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The Armistice Agreement of 1949 defines the status of Israel as of that time. It took place after the end of the Palestine Mandate, after UN Resolution 181, after Israel declared itself to be a state, and after the 1948 war.

The armistice was called by UN resolution. There was no surrender. No country lost any land in that war.

All of the internationally recognized borders mentioned were between Lebanon and Palestine, Syria and Palestine, Jordan and Palestine, and Egypt and Palestine. No borders were mentioned for Israel.

The "green line" (that was specifically stated to NOT be national or political borders) defined areas of occupation. It did not change Palestine's internationally recognized borders.

The cease fire was between "Israeli forces" and the forces of the other countries. "Israel" was not mentioned.

Article I in all the agreements started with: "With a view to promoting the return of permanent peace in Palestine..."

The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949

The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949

The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949

The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949


----------



## Ropey (Jan 22, 2011)

he Mind of Suicide Killers
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOTH_xv6O4o"]The mind of Suicide Killers part 1 of 10 [/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWVei-1HaeU"]The mind of Suicide Killers part 2 of 10 [/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m_7IO5aICY"]The mind of Suicide Killers part 3 of 10 [/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8ltKveMM8c"]The mind of Suicide Killers part 4 of 10 [/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIF3FReGIWM"]The mind of Suicide Killers part 5 of 10 [/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOjzvx5TD_U"]The mind of Suicide Killers part 6 of 10 [/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4smXSem6nM"]The mind of Suicide Killers part 7 of 10 [/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgsgWGiDaGA"]The mind of Suicide Killers part 8 of 10 [/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK-jJ-JRyvA"]The mind of Suicide Killers part 9 of 10 [/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bnD_obCvEk"]The mind of Suicide Killers part 10 of 10 [/ame]


----------



## Ropey (Jan 22, 2011)

*The Threat of the Human Shield Strategy Hamas Uses Extends Beyond Israel, Gaza;*

There are over 50 Muslim countries in the world which consider themselves MUSLIM countries and treat their women, and non-Muslims as second class citizens. The Palestinians are not citizens of Israel and like every other country in the world, are not privileged to the same rights as are a country's citizens. 

The Gaza Strip has been turned back to the people as Israel left it completely in 2005. Israel is under no obligation to allow a group of people who call for its destruction to use any part of Israel as a land route. Israel is not obligated under international law or any law for that matter to let a single Gazan step foot on Israeli soil. Almost every country in the world controls its borders, and Israel is no different. Israel is under no obligation to live up a higher standard than any other country in the world. The Palestinians want equality? Let them ask for peace and build a second Palestinian homeland run by Palestinians. The fact is that the Palestinians don't have a single person capable of creating and running and independent country. If you can name anyone who is up to the job, please name him or her. They can't stop killing each other and the mark of a beginning of humanistic civility is when people stop killing their own in power grabs. 

Please also compare Israel and religious freedoms with 'any' of the Muslim countries, including Indonesia. To attack Israel as a suppressor of religious freedoms, when there is no Muslim country with anything half way close to the freedoms of Israel is the complete and utter proof of some form of insanity.  Even the Arabians who are negotiating with the Jews don't believe such tripe. 

Any bit of research will tell the truth.  Yes, Israel has some fanatics, the more so for all the attacks the Arabians have promulgated from Israel's birth (Push them into the Sea) to the Hamas's Khartoum Accord Dictates (The Three No's.). All state their wish for the destruction of Israel.  It is clear enough to me and you can be certain that any discussion of peace with twenty thousand Hezbollah on Israel's south borders is just not going to happen. We know the weapons against us and we know the targeting on the American bases in Afghanistan and Iraq as well as Saudi and Egypt. Yes, we know and it is certainly taken into account by a knowledgeable West. 

Whilst Palestinian apologists continue this brinkmanship game, PF continue to demand massive deaths in the Middle East. If he had any idea of what Israel has in its defensive weaponry and IF he truly cared about lives in the ME, he would see that negotiation is the way to go and Arabian demanded intermediaries in the negotiating process is unworkable and be certain that the dynamics of negotiations will change if a war comes about.  Be certain of that.

Israel has some of the worlds prized nuclear physicists,  chemical engineers, etc. If this war comes, there will be a lot of mopping up for the US. They will create a far stronger hegemony when this is over. 

This upcoming war never was about the Palestinians. They are no more than flotsam and jetsam in the bigger game called the middle eastern hegemony. Iraq attempted to break it. The terrorists attempted to break it and now Iran attempts to break it.  Some think they will win. I do not.

Not propaganda. No words.  Just pictures of Palestinians herding their young whilst they shoot at helicopters, outposts, etc.

Hamas does this alll for the express purpose of the propaganda links you post. The young WANT to be killed as martyrs. They've been taught this since childhood. 
*
Want some of those videos?
*

But our snipers are pretty good. We get their shooters mostly. Those are mostly the ones dead. Not all, but Israel sure tries to separate what Hamas puts together.












    * Read more about *Gaza*.
    * Read more about *Hamas*.
    * Read more about *Israel*.
    * Read more about *al Qaeda*.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 22, 2011)

*Testimonies of Israeli Female Soldiers*

"Somehow, a female combatant has to prove herself more, on the ground too. Again, a female combatant who can lash out is a serious fighter. Capable. A ball-breaker. There was one with me when I got there, she&#8217;d been there long before, she was &#8211; wow, everyone talked about what grit she had, because she could humiliate Arabs without batting an eyelash. That was the thing to do."

Israel-Palestine


----------



## docmauser1 (Jan 23, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> _"Somehow, a female combatant has to prove herself more, on the ground too. Again, a female combatant who can lash out is a serious fighter. Capable. A ball-breaker. There was one with me when I got there, shed been there long before, she was  wow, everyone talked about what grit she had, because she could humiliate Arabs without batting an eyelash. That was the thing to do."_


Arab chauvinists were pissed, no doubt.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 23, 2011)

*Extra Effort*

"Breaking The Silence Israeli group reported that several Israeli female soldiers testified... regarding '*extra efforts*' that female soldiers should conduct in order to be recognized and accepted by the fellow male soldiers.

"One of the soldiers said that she had to humiliate the Palestinians on roadblocks, to shout at them and even to beat them to achieve this recognition.

"Another soldier said that she saw a fellow female soldier humiliating Palestinian residents 'in a way that cannot be described by words', and added that 'you have to see it to realize how she behaves, how she humiliates the Palestinians without caring about anything'&#8221;.

Gorilla your dreams, doc?

The Missing Headlines


----------



## docmauser1 (Jan 24, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> _"Another soldier said that she saw a fellow female soldier humiliating Palestinian residents 'in a way that cannot be described by words', and added that 'you have to see it to realize how she behaves, how she humiliates the Palestinians without caring about anything'._


Arab chauvinism-based society was, understandably, pissed.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 24, 2011)

*Israeli Justice*

"At least 50 female soldiers testified on what the army is doing on roadblocks in the occupied West Bank, and at the Eretz Terminal between Gaza and Israel.

One of the soldiers said that the soldiers arrested a Palestinian youth who hurled stones at them in the center of Hebron, in the southern part of the West Bank.

One of the soldiers was so scared from the small stone hurled by the youth, fell into a ditch and broke his leg. 

"The soldier was moved to an Israeli hospital while his comrades caught the Palestinian youth and deliberately broke his arm.


"They forced him to lay his arm on a chair, and then they hit it with a sharp object, she added." 

*Put down that rock, doc.*

Missing Headlines


----------



## docmauser1 (Jan 25, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> _Israeli Justice_


Californian deviants are pissed.


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## georgephillip (Jan 28, 2011)

*"In another incident*, a female soldier said that she heard a gunshot and rushed, along with other soldiers, to the scene to find a Palestinian youth bleeding after being shot in his abdomen.

"The soldiers who were at the scene claimed that he tried to run away after he was asked to present his identity card. But the fact was that the identity card was already handed to the soldiers, as one of them was holding it.

"She added that the soldiers involved in the incident were never questioned by their commanding officers." 

The Missing Headlines


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## docmauser1 (Jan 29, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> _In another incident, a female soldier said that she heard a gunshot and rushed, along with other soldiers, to the scene to find a Palestinian youth bleeding after being shot in his abdomen._


LA gays are, understandably, pissed.


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## georgephillip (Feb 2, 2011)

*Bibi's not real happy either:*

"Quds Press quoted the sources as affirming that Israeli premier Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday during a phone call with Suleiman, who was sworn in as vice president a couple of days ago, expressed his fears over the situation in Egypt and offered him *intelligence and security services to end the protests.*

"Netanyahu also discussed with Suleiman ways to secure the borders with Israel and urged him not to hesitate to ask for Israel's help if the Egyptian regime felt any danger threatening its existence."

Maybe Israel could send a few bulldozers?
Kill a few Egyptian kids (for sport)
Set up a checkpoint or two...

Israel Offers...


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## docmauser1 (Feb 3, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> _"Quds Press quoted the sources as affirming that Israeli premier Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday during a phone call with Suleiman, who was sworn in as vice president a couple of days ago, expressed his fears over the situation in Egypt and offered him intelligence and security services to end the protests._


My obsessive judophobic anti-globalists are quite a freak show - they're so gay about that egyptian coup, while Soros the Globalist was one of those, who fomented that coup, and now mister Obama is lending a "helping" hand by encouraging the mob to dictate, who'll be the leader there. Well, if it pesters jooz in any way those obsessive dumbass cavepersons will smooch Soros' anas. Simple.


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