# UN to make defamation of islam illegal......



## ABikerSailor (Feb 26, 2009)

> U.N. rights council adopts resolution against religious defamation at Muslim prodding
> 
> GENEVA: Islamic countries pushed through a resolution at the U.N. Human Rights Council on Friday urging a global prohibition on the public defamation of religion  a response largely to the furor last year over caricatures published in a Danish newspaper of the Muslim Prophet Muhammad.
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U.N. rights council adopts resolution against religious defamation at Muslim prodding - International Herald Tribune

Now, when I saw this on the news last night, I couldn't believe it.  Islam, which speaks bad about EVERY OTHER RELIGION, is now wanting to place themselves in a protected status.

Yep......just another example of domination by the "religion of pieces".


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## Harry Dresden (Feb 26, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> > U.N. rights council adopts resolution against religious defamation at Muslim prodding
> >
> > GENEVA: Islamic countries pushed through a resolution at the U.N. Human Rights Council on Friday urging a global prohibition on the public defamation of religion  a response largely to the furor last year over caricatures published in a Danish newspaper of the Muslim Prophet Muhammad.
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and yet another reason why the UN is a useless Organization......


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## editec (Feb 26, 2009)

Talk about a fart in hurricane?

Of course it IS bad form to hammer other people's religions.

While many of us have been taught that, in polite society, one does not insult other's beliefs, I suspect that we all do think that other's beliefs are at best goofy, and at worst, positively evil.


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## auditor0007 (Feb 26, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> > U.N. rights council adopts resolution against religious defamation at Muslim prodding
> >
> > GENEVA: Islamic countries pushed through a resolution at the U.N. Human Rights Council on Friday urging a global prohibition on the public defamation of religion  a response largely to the furor last year over caricatures published in a Danish newspaper of the Muslim Prophet Muhammad.
> >
> ...



So does that mean when Muslims call other people Infidels, we can nuke em since they don't respect our beliefs?  Or should we just ask for their extradition so we can chop off their heads?


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## elvis (Feb 26, 2009)

auditor0007 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
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> > > U.N. rights council adopts resolution against religious defamation at Muslim prodding
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yeah, let's rebuild the Twins, cut their heads off, and stick them on the antenna like a kebob.


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## johnrocks (Feb 26, 2009)

It's high time we get out of all these globalist organizations that we go to war for to enforce resolutions before we even defend our own Constitution.  Get out of the UN, The World Bank,the World Health Organization and any other organization or treaty that entangles us with the problems of others.


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## elvis (Feb 26, 2009)

johnrocks said:


> It's high time we get out of all these globalist organizations that we go to war for to enforce resolutions before we even defend our own Constitution.  Get out of the UN, The World Bank,the World Health Organization and any other organization or treaty that entangles us with the problems of others.



sounds good to me.


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## TAS (Feb 26, 2009)

Islam is not against debates or discussions regarding the tenets of each religion. It just asks that the environment be respectful. That's all. You won't find us mocking Jesus or Moses for example and that is what we ask in return, mutual respect for our beliefs..



> Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth, best who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance. (125)


Quran 16:125


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## Shogun (Feb 26, 2009)

Before you hypocrite fucks get too deep into your boohoo tangent.. why is itt hat you silly motherfuckers never talk about FREE SPEECH when it comes to denying the holocaust in Germany?  By all means, continue to make fun of islam but at least have the fucking consistency to apply the same standard to people who are busy defacing YOUR religious affiliation.  Otherwise, you are nothing more than a punchline to an unfunny joke.


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## Gurdari (Feb 26, 2009)

johnrocks said:


> It's high time we get out of all these globalist organizations that we go to war for to enforce resolutions before we even defend our own Constitution.  Get out of the UN, The World Bank,the World Health Organization and any other organization or treaty that entangles us with the problems of others.



I think the rest of the world wouldn't mind... those tend to be under the thumb of the powerful, in the case o fthe UN - and in the case of the IMF/World Bank they are almost proxies of the US!

If you think there should be international law - then work towards making it applicable to all nations, instead of undermining it when it doesn't suit you. 

As for this religious thing - I should be able to talk about how ridiculous I think believing in God is... but I see the point of constraining the amount of the racist Islam=terrorism crap that subtle, yet pervasive vibe in communications.


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## johnrocks (Feb 26, 2009)

Gurdari said:


> johnrocks said:
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> 
> > It's high time we get out of all these globalist organizations that we go to war for to enforce resolutions before we even defend our own Constitution.  Get out of the UN, The World Bank,the World Health Organization and any other organization or treaty that entangles us with the problems of others.
> ...



I support freedom, if a person wants to be a Muslim,atheist,Jew,Christian,Hindo or whatever then that is a personal choice imho.


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## driveby (Feb 26, 2009)

The Harper Valley PTA accomplishes more than the UN .......


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## TAS (Feb 26, 2009)

johnrocks said:


> I support freedom, if a person wants to be a Muslim,atheist,Jew,Christian,Hindo or whatever then that is a personal choice imho.



I agree with you totally. I believe that we have been given the freedom to choose whatever religion we want. I am against killing or prosecuting people who leave Islam. If they become comfortable with any other religion, fine by me.


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## Gurdari (Feb 26, 2009)

driveby said:


> The Harper Valley PTA accomplishes more than the UN .......



Who holds the veto power over decisions in that PTA?


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## auditor0007 (Feb 26, 2009)

TAS said:


> johnrocks said:
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> > I support freedom, if a person wants to be a Muslim,atheist,Jew,Christian,Hindo or whatever then that is a personal choice imho.
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Can this be said for the vast majority of Muslims?


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## driveby (Feb 26, 2009)

Gurdari said:


> driveby said:
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> > The Harper Valley PTA accomplishes more than the UN .......
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>


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## TAS (Feb 26, 2009)

auditor0007 said:


> TAS said:
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This is a controversial issue within Islam. Some say yes, it's ok to leave Islam, others say not. 
But by examining what the Quran says thoroughly, once can conclude that Islam grants everyone the right to believe in whatever he wants to believes in. And then when we meet on judgment day, we will know how was correct and who was wrong. 



> Egypt's Top Religious Advisor OKs Muslims Leaving Islam
> Egypts official religious advisor said Muslims are free to change their religion  a statement that could significantly impact the status of Muslims who convert to Christianity and the countys Christian population in general.
> Wed, Jul. 25, 2007 Posted: 03:30 PM EDT
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> ...


Egypt's Top Religious Advisor OKs Muslims Leaving Islam| Christianpost.com


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## ABikerSailor (Feb 26, 2009)

You know.........islamic people are a bunch of fucking hypocrites.........

They are getting pissed because the rest of the world is starting to treat them like they treat others.

Yeshua said to do that by the way, "treat others like you would treat yourself".

Only trouble is, when your theology is based on death, fear and domination, you don't really have much to treat others with.

Shit Gun........what happened to you dude?  You used to be a decent person up until you decided to go all jihad against anyone that spoke bad about islam. 

What?  Did you, or are you now, in the process of converting?


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## auditor0007 (Feb 26, 2009)

TAS said:


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That would be a step in the right direction, but at this point, that is only one example.  When you say some believe it is okay, do you mean 2%, 20%, or 95%?


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## TAS (Feb 26, 2009)

auditor0007 said:


> That would be a step in the right direction, but at this point, that is only one example.  When you say some believe it is okay, do you mean 2%, 20%, or 95%?



I really don't know. I can't tell. But what I am sure of is that this position is gaining ground by many contemporary Islamic scholars and by Muslims in general.


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## Shogun (Feb 26, 2009)

auditor0007 said:


> TAS said:
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do you have evidence that suggests that it cannot?

By all means, post it.  OR, just sit there and remain the punchline while you do ANYTHING BUT bitch about free speech applied to holocaust denying germans.


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## Shogun (Feb 26, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> You know.........islamic people are a bunch of fucking hypocrites.........
> 
> They are getting pissed because the rest of the world is starting to treat them like they treat others.
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> ...





I'm not here to be your personal hero, lil guy.  I'll talk shit about whomever I choose.  HOWEVER, what I find more reprehensible than religious jokes are open, outright hypocrites whose standards ONLY apply to one group while crying like a bitch every time someone makes a joke about jews or christians.  Why don't you finally scrape together more balls than Vern Troyer and figure out why crying about hatred in islam means little coming from someone who is so goddamn hateful OF islam.


Or, just sit there and keep looking up at people.  I don't really care, homo.


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## ABikerSailor (Feb 26, 2009)

Shogun said:


> ABikerSailor said:
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> > You know.........islamic people are a bunch of fucking hypocrites.........
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Never said you were my personal hero motherfucker, I said you used to be a decent dude, but now, you're just another islamic prick.

And yeah......I DO make fun of Jews.  Matter of fact, JEWS MAKE FUN OF JEWS! They (unlike your theology du jour), are able to laugh at themselves, as well as make fun of themselves.

Those islamic assholes have no sense of humor.........

Learn a bit more Shit Run, before you go beating your gums on my dick.


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## TAS (Feb 26, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> Those islamic assholes have no sense of humor.........



Well, we have sense of humor, check those out
YouTube - ummahfilms's Channel
Allah Made Me Funny: The Movie - In Theaters October 2008 :: Starring Preacher Moss, Azhar Usman and Mohammed Amer
http://www.youtube.com/user/allahmademefunny

Hopefully those would make u laugh


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## ABikerSailor (Feb 26, 2009)

The only thing about islam that would make me laugh?

All muslims dropping dead in their tracks at the same time.


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## Harry Dresden (Feb 26, 2009)

TAS said:


> Islam is not against debates or discussions regarding the tenets of each religion. It just asks that the environment be respectful. That's all. You won't find us mocking Jesus or Moses for example and that is what we ask in return, mutual respect for our beliefs..
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Tas.....you sound like your one of the "good" Muslims,so let me ask you something,i asked this question to Sunni,he answered and i replied that i found his answer to be not true,he never replied to that.....so here it is....if the GOOD Muslims of the world are against what the Bin Ladens of the world are doing....WHY do they not speak up LOUDLY against these people,WHEN THEY DO SOMETHING, LIKE BEHEAD A INNOCENT PERSON? and i DO mean,IMMEDIATLY after the act is committed,not 3 months later.....and i dont mean people like yourself,telling us your against it or some unknown guy on the news saying we are against it.....i mean the LEADERS of the religion,coming forward and saying these guys are puke.....and if there whereabouts are known,to help bring them to some kind of justice.....why does this not happen?


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## Shogun (Feb 26, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


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Im not more islamic than you are tall enough to reach the top shelf of your refrigerator, dude.  What I AM is consistently able to not be a racist fuck just because the jokes and the shit talking appeal to your ignorance and total lack of empathy or inability to see how starkly ironic your shit talking is.  

And no, i've not seen a single occasion where you are doing anything other than deepthroating some kosher dick.  I guess you can call "please, i love you with all my heart and want to see jesus again so please allow me to polish your knob" shit talking if you want to... but then, you also think Allah is a demon so.. so much for your input.


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## Shogun (Feb 26, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> *The only thing about islam that would make me laugh?
> 
> All muslims dropping dead in their tracks at the same time.*



I rest my case, short fry.


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## ABikerSailor (Feb 26, 2009)

Yeah......and while you guys are at it, let's talk about that muslim asshole cleric in Britain.


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## cunclusion (Feb 26, 2009)

The bill should just cover all religions not just Islam to be fair to all basically you cannot defame any religion see how much support it would get then.


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## Shogun (Feb 26, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> Yeah......and while you guys are at it, let's talk about that muslim asshole cleric in Britain.



why, does he have a beautiful pair of orthopedic shoes that you covet?


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## ABikerSailor (Feb 26, 2009)

If you actually watched the news with your head out of your ass, you would have seen the hate and violence that he's been preaching for the past several years.

Shit Run.......you're probably one of the more clueless people that I know, and considering I've seen people like Sunnidiot and Chucked Ass on these boards, that's saying a lot.


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## Shogun (Feb 26, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> If you actually watched the news with your head out of your ass, you would have seen the hate and violence that he's been preaching for the past several years.
> 
> Shit Run.......you're probably one of the more clueless people that I know, and considering I've seen people like Sunnidiot and Chucked Ass on these boards, that's saying a lot.



hate and violence worse than YOUR gems on this forum?  Shit, dude... you sure are one to talk after posting that it would be funny to you if every muslim died in their tracks.  Jesus fucking christ.


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## ABikerSailor (Feb 26, 2009)

I still think it is funny.

Just like you think that killing Jews is funny and the Holocaust didn't happen.

Although........I'd consider your idiocy to me much more dangerous.

I also think it would be funny if you ended up in a car wreck and were in traction this week.


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## Mr. President (Feb 26, 2009)

You either have to be for freedom of speech or controlled speech.  If the speech is not threatening harm or violence it is acceptable In my opinion.


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## TAS (Feb 26, 2009)

Harry Dresden said:


> TAS said:
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> > Islam is not against debates or discussions regarding the tenets of each religion. It just asks that the environment be respectful. That's all. You won't find us mocking Jesus or Moses for example and that is what we ask in return, mutual respect for our beliefs..
> ...



Hi Harry
To answer your question, I have to say something first.
We, the Muslims, are living the worst times ever since Islam was founded 1400 years ago. We are at the bottom, economically and socially. We are living under dictators, oppressors and occupiers. In such environment, what you get is chaos, backwardness and division. 

Back to answering your question "why don't the Islamic leaders condemn terrorism?", In Islam (at least in Sunni Islam), we don't have a centralized religious authority like the case of the "Vatican" for Christianity nor do we have clergy like Popes. 
What we have are Islamic scholars and institutions which study, discuss, and interpret the Quran and Hadith for us. They teach us the religion but they are not regarded as holy men or saints but just men with knowledge about Islam. That makes what they say not necessary to be obligatory or enforceable. And as we are living in a sad Islamic state as I mentioned above, that's what we get. But even though, there are imams and religious institutions that condemn the terrorists as soon as it happens. For example
Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Indian Muslims condemn terrorism
BBC NEWS | UK | England | West Midlands | Muslim leaders condemn terrorism

The problem is that these voices don't get published or broadcasted in the media. You have to search for it to find it.  

But what I find interesting is the work of an Islamic leader who is debating with captured terrorists and reforming them to stop their violent ideas and become better Muslims  
Judge Hamoud al-Hitar, Minister of Islamic Affairs, talks about using dialogue to confront extremists

I hope that answers your question


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## auditor0007 (Feb 26, 2009)

Shogun said:


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CNN.com - Death could await Christian convert - Mar 21, 2006

Apostasy in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Death in Iran: Converting from Islam - Voice of Revolution

"Apostate" Muslim May Face Death Penalty in Afghanistan - World News

Iran: A Christian jailed for converting from Islam - National Council of Resistance of Iran - Foreign Affairs Committee

Malaysian Could be Jailed for Converting from Islam to Christianity - Russia.com Discussion Forum

Pajamas Media Â» Muslims Leaving Islam in Droves

Detailansicht- International Society for Human Rights

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeRsfc8_4eg]YouTube - Pakistan: Death Penalty to Muslim Converts to Christianity[/ame]

BBC NEWS | Magazine | When Muslims become Christians

There's just a handful of evidence.  Are you so stupid that you need more?  Admitting that you were unaware of Muslim laws against apostacy shows how truly ignorant you are Shogun.  That's why it's pointless discussing anything with you, because you are completely lost.  At least you were able to show all of us how dumb you really are.  

If there was a real change in attitude concerning apostacy by Muslims, that would be a huge change, but I don't really see it happening.  It is part of the Islamic religion.  Denying the penalties for apostacy is much like denying the religion itself, because it is such a dominant part of the religion itself.


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## TAS (Feb 26, 2009)

auditor0007 said:


> .
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> If there was a real change in attitude concerning apostacy by Muslims, that would be a huge change, but I don't really see it happening.  It is part of the Islamic religion.  Denying the penalties for apostacy is much like denying the religion itself, because it is such a dominant part of the religion itself.



No, it's not to that degree. it's happening. It is slowly but surely.


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## Xenophon (Feb 26, 2009)

Cool, more stuff from the UN I will totally ignore.


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## ABikerSailor (Feb 26, 2009)

Shit Gun.......Auditor0007 just handed your ass to you in pieces.

Without any glue.

Good job Auditor.


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## Sinatra (Feb 26, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> > U.N. rights council adopts resolution against religious defamation at Muslim prodding
> >
> > GENEVA: Islamic countries pushed through a resolution at the U.N. Human Rights Council on Friday urging a global prohibition on the public defamation of religion  a response largely to the furor last year over caricatures published in a Danish newspaper of the Muslim Prophet Muhammad.
> >
> ...



This is absolute madness.

Nice find ABS.


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## pete (Feb 27, 2009)

auditor0007 said:


> So does that mean when Muslims call other people Infidels, we can nuke em since they don't respect our beliefs?  Or should we just ask for their extradition so we can chop off their heads?



That would be an answer for sure, but then all the organizations that WILL pop up will call us out against it and as they don't respect others will prosecute the rest.
Sound familiar?


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 27, 2009)

TAS said:


> Islam is not against debates or discussions regarding the tenets of each religion. It just asks that the environment be respectful. That's all. You won't find us mocking Jesus or Moses for example and that is what we ask in return, mutual respect for our beliefs..
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Ya that is why Islam run countries forbid the building of new non Muslim religious structures, the open display of non Muslim religious activities, the outlawing of importation of other religions holy books or materials... shall I go on?


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## Gunny (Feb 27, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> > U.N. rights council adopts resolution against religious defamation at Muslim prodding
> >
> > GENEVA: Islamic countries pushed through a resolution at the U.N. Human Rights Council on Friday urging a global prohibition on the public defamation of religion  a response largely to the furor last year over caricatures published in a Danish newspaper of the Muslim Prophet Muhammad.
> >
> ...



As I always say ... fuck the UN.  Quit giving them money and charge them rent or kick them the fuck out. 

Here's an idea ... how about the UN makes genocide in Africa illegal?


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## michiganFats (Feb 27, 2009)

It's the U.N.  Who cares? I can't think of a group that I give any less of a shit about than the U.N.


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## TAS (Feb 27, 2009)

RetiredGySgt said:


> TAS said:
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> > Islam is not against debates or discussions regarding the tenets of each religion. It just asks that the environment be respectful. That's all. You won't find us mocking Jesus or Moses for example and that is what we ask in return, mutual respect for our beliefs..
> ...



Hi
Yes that happens in Islamic countries but it also happens in Western countries where building mosques is met with huge protests, where open display of religious beliefs is forbidden like wearing hijab in France's public schools.

What should happen in Muslim countries and other non-Muslim countries is to allow everyone to choose his beliefs without any pressure or threats.


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## rayboyusmc (Feb 27, 2009)

Let's just live on a fucking island all by ourself.  Get a life.  The current UN may not work as well as it was planned to, but to think we can cut ourself off from the rest of world -- go back to your caves.

As to the Muslim religion thing,  fuck them if they can't take a joke.  

And, by the way, it isn't "all" muslims just like it isn't all christians who are extremists.  Remember, we did have the Spanish Inquistion at one time also.


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## michiganFats (Feb 27, 2009)

rayboyusmc said:


> Let's just live on a fucking island all by ourself.  Get a life.  The current UN may not work as well as it was planned to, but to think we can cut ourself off from the rest of world -- go back to your caves.



What are you saying here? Are you responding to an opinion that a single poster put out there about the UN overall? Are you suggesting that we should actually try our level best to comply with this "directive" from the UN? Or, is this just a catch-all statement?


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## Munin (Feb 27, 2009)

Shogun said:


> Before you hypocrite fucks get too deep into your boohoo tangent.. *why is itt hat you silly motherfuckers never talk about FREE SPEECH when it comes to denying the holocaust in Germany?*  By all means, continue to make fun of islam but at least have the fucking consistency to apply the same standard to people who are busy defacing YOUR religious affiliation.  Otherwise, you are nothing more than a punchline to an unfunny joke.



It is because the holocaust was a genocide and because the evidence is so overwhelming that the denial of it is seen as antisemitic (in Europe). It is mainly because this event happened not so long ago. 

You might as well spit on the graves of the people who were massacred by the nazis (this is literally how it is seen by Europeans: people who deny the holocaust are spitting on the graves of the victims). You don't spit on the graves of dead americans troops, now do you?


When muslims make fun of Christianity and many other religions then it is OK, but when others make fun of Islam then it is no more OK : that is hypocritical


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## Shogun (Feb 27, 2009)

Munin said:


> Shogun said:
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> > Before you hypocrite fucks get too deep into your boohoo tangent.. *why is itt hat you silly motherfuckers never talk about FREE SPEECH when it comes to denying the holocaust in Germany?*  By all means, continue to make fun of islam but at least have the fucking consistency to apply the same standard to people who are busy defacing YOUR religious affiliation.  Otherwise, you are nothing more than a punchline to an unfunny joke.
> ...





well, excuses for hypocrisies sure isn't rare!  I don't deny the holocaust at all....  But to cry fould that some german thinks so out of one side of your mouth while crying like a bitch about free speech when it comes to talking shit about islam is nothing less than talking out of both sides of your mouth.  FREEDOM OF SPEECH ALLOWS PEOPLE TO "SPIT ON THE GRAVES OF" WHOMEVER.  do you not enjoy that same freedom HERE IN THE US?  IS holocaust denial covered by OUR first amendment?  *IS IT A FUCKING CRIME TO TALK SHIT ABOUT DEAD AMERICAN SOLDIERS IF ONE IS SO INCLINED?*  ONce you answer that question HONESTLY, instead of giving the answer the kosher dick in your mouth wants you to give, then you'll be facing the double standard you represent.


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## Harry Dresden (Feb 27, 2009)

michiganFats said:


> It's the U.N.  Who cares? I can't think of a group that I give any less of a shit about than the U.N.



well maybe NAMBLA....


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## Munin (Feb 27, 2009)

Shogun said:


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Islam is a religion and it does not compare to denying genocide in Europe so your comparison makes no sense. Holocaust survivors and Nazi survivors are still alive, so the pain about that genocide in Europe is still real (not just numbers out of a historic book like with the massacres in the Roman empire). In Europe it is sensitive and Europeans don't have the same freedom of speech that americans have, so you are comparing 2 complete different things. And no in America it is no fucking crime to talk shit about dead american soldiers, but I m sure that if you talk shit about a dead soldier to his mother (that is a stranger to you) that it will not be seen as something that is "acceptable".

Religion should be criticized and even be able to be mocked at, this should be no problem. When you can not criticize or mock a religion then you are living in a religious dictatorship, I suggest you go live in one of those countries if you really want that (because there are plenty of those already: for example in pakistan it is off with your head if you throw a Qur'an in the trash).

So yes it is true, there is no complete freedom of speech in Europe. But it is still better then in the shitty muslim countries where they ll murder you if you say/do something wrong about Islam, no religion should receive immunity not even your "holy" Islam. Where do you think all the shit in muslim countries comes from? Because people can not criticize their "holy" religion that is being used by their rulers, rulers who use the word "blasphemy" as a tool of government (just like your "holy" prophet did). You seem to dumb/ignorant to even acknowledge that. Yeah sure you can mock our freedom of speech because it is hypocrite, but we will mock your religion that causes so many muslims to immigrate to our Western countries. I ll gladly choose this hypocritical freedom of speech above the immunity of a religion.


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## Shogun (Feb 27, 2009)

of course it makes sense if the standard is FREEDOM OF SPEECH.  It's fucking hilarious how quick you people are to insist that shit that benefits zion is somehow different or totally incomparable to anything that criticizes zion.  

the "pain" of a holocaust survivor, or ANY travesty, doesn't nullify OUR freedom of speech, eh?  I can literally make 9/11 jokes about Americans leaping from skyscrapers and I won't be thrown in jail for it.  THAT is an applied freedom of speech.  Your logic fails.  But, hey, what else are you going to do with a kosher dick messaging your tonsils?

And yes, if I WANT to talk about dead soldiers I can do just that.  You don't see Fred Phelps in fucking JAIL, do you?  of course note.   NEXT.

If your sole rebuttal amounts to falacious assumptions and deflection at a muslim country then go sit in your zionistcorner and shut the fuck up... whats that?!?!?!  YOU dont have to because you have the freedom to say what you want???


NO WAI!




You silly fucks are too easy.


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## Againsheila (Feb 27, 2009)

Shogun said:


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I think you are trying to compare a law against free speech, with free speech.

There is no law against saying there is no holocaust.  And we have every right, to tell someone that thinks there was no holocaust that they're full of crap.  That's free speech.

The UN just passed a resolution that makes it illegal to speak negatively against Islam, that's taking away free speech.


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## TAS (Feb 27, 2009)

Munin said:


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In Islam, it is ok to criticize, debate,and  discuss the tenets of Islam and other religions, but why add mockery to something that is held dear by many? Because when you mock any religion, then rational, logical and reasonable debate stops and that becomes an insulting match.
In the Quran, it asks to debate and discuss but in a respectable manner. Again here is teh verse from the Quran


> Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth, best who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.


Quran 16:125


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## TAS (Feb 27, 2009)

Againsheila said:


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The UN didn't pass the resolution. And they won't pass it.


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## Munin (Feb 27, 2009)

Shogun said:


> of course it makes sense if the standard is FREEDOM OF SPEECH.  It's fucking hilarious how quick you people are to insist that shit that benefits zion is somehow different or totally incomparable to anything that criticizes zion.
> 
> the "pain" of a holocaust survivor, or ANY travesty, doesn't nullify OUR freedom of speech, eh?  I can literally make 9/11 jokes about Americans leaping from skyscrapers and I won't be thrown in jail for it.  THAT is an applied freedom of speech.  Your logic fails.  But, hey, what else are you going to do with a kosher dick messaging your tonsils?
> 
> ...



You are a moron, you don't even know that European freedom of speech does not equal American freedom of speech. If you deny the holocaust in a European country then you can be thrown in jail for it (depending on the country). Europeans have restricted freedom of speech to a certain limit, but mocking religion is accepted within those limits and other things are not.

Yeah sure, give your "anti-zionist" ramble. Crapping on jews and zionists, you must think that you re good muslim now 

You are even more of a moron because you can't even see that immunity of a religion and freedom of speech don't fit together, a guy that defends immunity of religion would be the last person on earth to defend freedom of speech.


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## YWN666 (Feb 27, 2009)

We have freedom of speech in this country and the UN can't take that away. Even if the UN passes a resolution, how binding is it on the US?


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## Shogun (Feb 27, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> > Munin said:
> ...



au contraire.. In europe, where this "omg, they are going to outlaw criticism of islam" bullshit originates, you can't deny the holocaust without facing criminal charges.  Specifically in Germany.  

In AMERICA there is no law about denying the holocaust.. But thats the example I use against nutters who seem to think it's ok to talk shit on islam but SUPPORT the criminal treatment of those who deny the holocaust.  You want evidence?  Just say the word.  There are no less than 4 examples of German "criminals" who have been raked through the coals for their speech regarding the holocaust.  PLEASE ask for it.  I WANT to show you how stupid you silly bastards are.


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## Munin (Feb 27, 2009)

TAS said:


> Munin said:
> 
> 
> > Shogun said:
> ...



The thing is that everything can be hold dear by someone, if we would grant that kind of favors to 1 religion then we would be obligated to do it with every religion. No more mocking Jesus, no more mocking extremist muslims, no more mocking extremist christians, no more ...


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## sylverfoxx (Feb 27, 2009)

Shogun said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Shogun said:
> ...



Shogun, thou dost speak the truth !
AMEN


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## TAS (Feb 27, 2009)

Munin said:


> The thing is that everything can be hold dear by someone, if we would grant that kind of favors to 1 religion then we would be obligated to do it with every religion. No more mocking Jesus, no more mocking extremist muslims, no more mocking extremist christians, no more ...



I am for granting this right to every religion whether Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, etc. We shall discuss everything about the religions but not by insults, degradation, or mocking but with due respect and civilized manner.


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## pete (Feb 27, 2009)

YWN666 said:


> We have freedom of speech in this country and the UN can't take that away. Even if the UN passes a resolution, how binding is it on the US?


We do?


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## Harry Dresden (Feb 27, 2009)

YWN666 said:


> We have freedom of speech in this country and the UN can't take that away. Even if the UN passes a resolution, how binding is it on the US?



the UN can pass whatever laws they want....but Harry Dresden passed a law years ago.....its called  "The UN Aint Worth A Shit Law"....


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## Shogun (Feb 27, 2009)

gosh.. it's funny to see so many macho americans who used a UN resolution to invade iraq turn around and insist that the UN doesn't apply to them...  SAY IT AINT SO!


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## Harry Dresden (Feb 27, 2009)

Shogun said:


> gosh.. it's funny to see so many macho americans who used a UN resolution to invade iraq turn around and insist that the UN doesn't apply to them...  SAY IT AINT SO!


i felt they weren't worth a shit 25 years ago Sho....nothings changed.....still an expensive debating club,whose favorite topic is bad mouthing America,on our own soil no less....my law still holds.....they aint worth a shit.......


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## BrokenAngel (Feb 27, 2009)

Shogun said:


> of course it makes sense if the standard is FREEDOM OF SPEECH.  It's fucking hilarious how quick you people are to insist that shit that benefits zion is somehow different or totally incomparable to anything that criticizes zion.
> 
> the "pain" of a holocaust survivor, or ANY travesty, doesn't nullify OUR freedom of speech, eh?  I can literally make 9/11 jokes about Americans leaping from skyscrapers and I won't be thrown in jail for it.  THAT is an applied freedom of speech.  Your logic fails.  But, hey, what else are you going to do with a kosher dick messaging your tonsils?
> 
> ...



You may be a self important bastard but you are beyond correct and I applaud you for your frankness.


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## garyd (Feb 28, 2009)

You do realize that a UN reslolution and approximately six bucks will get you a cup of coffee at star bucks. Especially those passed by the general assembly which is about 30% Muslim any way.

By the way some actual evidence that any of those are little more than proxies for the US would be nice.

And considering as how we furnish most of the Money the IMF lends we ought to have swome control.

One last thing people would be less eager to critique Islam if the actual history of the religion wasn't filled with wars agains everyone who isn't Muslim and most of those that are at one time or the other. Hell It is a historical fact that of the five Islamic leaders immediately following Mohammed four were killed - murdered no less - by other Muslims.


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## TAS (Mar 7, 2009)

Harry Dresden said:


> TAS said:
> 
> 
> > Islam is not against debates or discussions regarding the tenets of each religion. It just asks that the environment be respectful. That's all. You won't find us mocking Jesus or Moses for example and that is what we ask in return, mutual respect for our beliefs..
> ...



Hi Harry,
I found an article that answers your question more clearly than i did.


> Samir sees as one of the great challenges facing Islam a lack of official leadership to certify or dismiss interpretations of what sacred texts say, notably on the question of violence. "There is a need for an authority, unanimously acknowledged by Muslims, that could say 'From now on, only this verse is valid.' But this does not  and probably will never  happen," he writes in response to Question No. 26. "This means that when some fanatics kill children, women and men in the name of pure and authentic Islam, or in the name of the Koran or of the Muslim tradition, nobody can tell them, 'You are not true and authentic Muslims.' All they can say is: 'Your reading of Islam is not ours.' And this is the ambiguity of Islam, from its beginning to the present day: violence is a part of it, although it is also possible to choose tolerance; tolerance is a part of it, but it is also possible to choose violence."


The Jesuit Who Inspired the Pope's Ideas on Islam - TIME


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## ABikerSailor (Mar 8, 2009)

Shit Run, the stupid one, you never spent time in the military, did ya?

Figures.......you hide behind them, while talking shit about 'em.

No wonder you're now known as Shit Gun.


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## cbi0090 (Mar 15, 2009)

As I read it, the resolution applies to all religions, so in that regard they are at least being even handed.  The weird thing is that it just has no meaning outside their own circle.  The resolution is not going to stop criticism or defamation anywhere because they have no means to enforce it other than to shake a finger at someone.  This only serves to further isolate them from the world and make them appear just that much more hapless and helpless, so what benefit is it?


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## Father Time (Mar 15, 2009)

TAS said:


> Munin said:
> 
> 
> > The thing is that everything can be hold dear by someone, if we would grant that kind of favors to 1 religion then we would be obligated to do it with every religion. No more mocking Jesus, no more mocking extremist muslims, no more mocking extremist christians, no more ...
> ...



Oh great we're going to be forced to be polite. It should be ok to mercilessly mock ANYTHING, even the religions people hold oh so dear.


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## ABikerSailor (Mar 16, 2009)

No more mocking extremists?  What are the extremists gonna do then?

Shit Gun is gonna be out of a job also.


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## mightypeon (Mar 18, 2009)

And who will define what is a "religion" and what isnt?
Am I supposed to not make fun of Tom Cruise and his Scientology hogwash?
If I become the founder of the religion of ZOMG, does that mean that people can no longer make fun of me? I regularly make fun of other people, so things would be a bit unfairly onesided then.
Stalinism and Religions also have a lot in common, does that mean I can no longer make jokes about the Soviet era? 
Mind you, these Jokes are very popular in former pseudo communist countries.
I do not think that any concept should be exempt from beeing ridiculed just by beeing a religion.  

I am from Germany, the only place were more people died for religious reasons than in the Holy Land (and thats not counting WW2), I totally belief that all religions deserve to be ridiculed, in fact, its a good way to judge a religion by looking how it reacts to beeing ridiculed. If everyone takes religion less serious, less people will die.


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## Againsheila (Mar 18, 2009)

mightypeon said:


> And who will define what is a "religion" and what isnt?
> Am I supposed to not make fun of Tom Cruise and his Scientology hogwash?
> If I become the founder of the religion of ZOMG, does that mean that people can no longer make fun of me? I regularly make fun of other people, so things would be a bit unfairly onesided then.
> Stalinism and Religions also have a lot in common, does that mean I can no longer make jokes about the Soviet era?
> ...



I take my religion very seriously.  If you want to mock me for it, that's your business.  Don't expect me to be happy about it.  You have every right to say anything you want about my religion and I have every right to be offended, or to argue with you because of what you say.  Normally though, I just ignore people like you..turn the other cheek.


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## morpheus (Mar 18, 2009)

This never became international law.  The IHT article posted in the opening post states that this UN committee where this resolution was tabled has virtually meaningless power.  This never passed through all UN members nor the Security Council.



johnrocks said:


> It's high time we get out of all these globalist organizations that we go to war for to enforce resolutions before we even defend our own Constitution.   Get out of the UN, The World Bank,the World Health Organization and any other organization or treaty that entangles us with the problems of others.



We only go to war "to enforce resolutions" when there's an economic or geopolitical benefit in doing so; often times "enforcing international law" is a facade that American foreign policy erects in order to hide true motives, such as gaining access to natural resources, shipping routes, airspace, markets, military bases, pipelines and new pipeline routes, and overthrowing adversary governments or protecting _allied_ governments (even if our ally is a totalitarian regime).  _This_ is what American foreign policy is really about, not "enforcing resolutions" or "solving the world's problems".  If you honestly believe that we go into war to "help the world", you seriously need to inform yourself more.

There are several UN resolutions that the United States couldn't care any less for.  We only seem to enforce international law when its to our advantage in doing so. The truth is that several of these global organizations help to enforce the international policies that folks in Washington and Wall Street push for and depend on, such as the UN, WTO, and NAFTA.  American politicians on both sides of the aisle occasionally use populist rhetoric against these international bodies, but they wouldn't ever dream of pulling out.  The United States never does anything it doesn't want to do.  We didn't sign Kyoto, nor are we a party of the ICC (International Criminal Court), and we have become notorious for not joining either of these two international agreements.  There's also several UN resolutions that the United States adamantly opposes, one example that might shock some Americans is the UN resolution on cultural diversity of which Washington is the biggest opponent (because of the big studios in Hollywood who would lose a lot of business.)  The United States doesn't do anything it doesn't want to do, and the only reason we're in NAFTA, UN, WTO, and so on, is because they greatly increases American political power around the globe.  Otherwise, we'd pull out.


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## mightypeon (Mar 19, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> mightypeon said:
> 
> 
> > And who will define what is a "religion" and what isnt?
> ...



I would label that as a totally healthy attitude, mind you, I am certainly no authority of how people "should feel" about religion (its just my personal opinion), I do not think any human has this authority.
I just maintain that absolutly noone should be killed/maimed/sprayed with acid/whatever because of it.

It is just, life is wonderfull yet people get killed, people die for a lot of reasons, lets just remove religions as a cause of death.

Apart from that, most of my Issues with Christianity come from the inclusion of the Old Testament, most prominently the book of Judges. Well, since Islam also acknowledges the Old Testament, I have the same problem with Islam too.

I simply cannot take the things (like ehmm genocide, cutting the victim of  a mass rape into pieces etc. ) described in the Book of Judges as things done/influenced by a god I would follow.

P.S. I would personally never be seriously offended by people mocking my Agnosticism


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