# PRIVACY WARNING: Do NOT log into CARS.GOV



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jul 31, 2009)

If you do log into cars.gov your computer will become the property of the federal govt and all things you do on-line will from that point on be able to be legally monitored and distributed by the federal government.


This is what the screen says if you do log into cars.gov website and click "I agree" on the privacy act and security statement:



			
				cars.gov website said:
			
		

> This application provides access to the DoT CARS system.  When logged on to the CARS system, your computer is considered a Federal computer system and is the property of the U.S. Government.   Any or all uses of this system and all files on this system may be intercepted, monitored, recorded, copied, audited, inspected, and disclosed to authorized CARS, Dot, and law enforcement personnel, as well as authorized officials of other agencies, both domestic and foreign.



Just a heads up people, don't do it!!!!!

They say its only while your logged in but I just dont trust the goverment to protect my privacy after i've received a message like this. 

This is 100% legal BTW.


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## editec (Jul 31, 2009)

Wow

What  arrogance.


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## KittenKoder (Jul 31, 2009)

Funny thing, it won't even let me onto their site ...


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## xotoxi (Jul 31, 2009)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> If you do log into cars.gov your computer will become the property of the federal govt and all things you do on-line will from that point on be able to be legally monitored and distributed by the federal government.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jul 31, 2009)

xotoxi said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
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> > If you do log into cars.gov your computer will become the property of the federal govt and all things you do on-line will from that point on be able to be legally monitored and distributed by the federal government.



It's not a conspiracy theory if its out in the open and public.

SOOOOOOO


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## KittenKoder (Jul 31, 2009)

xotoxi said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
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> > If you do log into cars.gov your computer will become the property of the federal govt and all things you do on-line will from that point on be able to be legally monitored and distributed by the federal government.



Actually, it's feasible. Many sites have something like that in their "terms and conditions", hell, with Google anything you post in their system is considered public property, meaning you cannot sue anyone if someone else uses it.

I can't get onto the site at all, which means there is something up with it since my system blocks attempts to use Flash, Java, or even SHTTP to get into it without permission from me. If I can't get into a site, there is a high probability that it's trying to do something.


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## Ravi (Jul 31, 2009)

I don't believe you. I didn't get that message.


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## Ravi (Jul 31, 2009)

Oh, no wonder. Some stupid Glenn Beck lie.


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## chanel (Jul 31, 2009)

Remember the Patriot Act and the NSA wiretapping controversy? The libs were screaming about the privacy rights of suspected terrorists. They accused Pres Bush of tapping our phones and reading our emails. They wanted to sue all our telcoms for assisting the govt. Where are those cry babies now?


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jul 31, 2009)

Ravi said:


> I don't believe you. I didn't get that message.



It comes up right after you click "I agree" 

Maybe they got rid of it now but 2 hours ago thats what popped up on my screen

Its only while your logged into the system according to the message, once you log out your computer is supposedly private again.



Then again your RAVI and probably didn't even go to the website


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jul 31, 2009)

chanel said:


> Remember the Patriot Act and the NSA wiretapping controversy? The libs were screaming about the privacy rights of suspected terrorists. They accused Pres Bush of tapping our phones and reading our emails. They wanted to sue all our telcoms for assisting the govt. Where are those cry babies now?




I was and still am one of those crybabies.   I HATED and HATE the patriot act.

Go look at my political cartoon thread for verification of this  .

I guess i'm the only one who doesn't like invasion of privacy whether its coming from the reps or dems.


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## Ravi (Jul 31, 2009)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Ravi said:
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> > I don't believe you. I didn't get that message.
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I never had to click agree and actually I was on that website for the first time three or four weeks ago to check to see if my son's car qualified for the program.

And again in the last few minutes.

Sad for you.


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## KittenKoder (Jul 31, 2009)

Ravi said:


> I don't believe you. I didn't get that message.



Did you actually read their terms and conditions?

As I said, my computer blocks that site, it's not a partisan computer, it doesn't care about who made the site, but it does block anything from getting in unless I okay it personally. So I have no reason to believe otherwise.


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## xotoxi (Jul 31, 2009)

I just crawled all over that site and there was no sign that the Feds now own my computer. 

If they think they do, they will get a taste of Second Amendment right in their face!


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## KittenKoder (Jul 31, 2009)

xotoxi said:


> I just crawled all over that site and there was no sign that the Feds now own my computer.
> 
> If they think they do, they will get a taste of Second Amendment right in their face!





I think it's only for signing up, but there is a way they can do some things without you knowing it. Just don't click "agree" to anything until you are certain. I will see if I can find more info on it, but as I said, my computer does not like that site so I can't get much more info on it yet.


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## Xenophon (Jul 31, 2009)

No problem, I have no desire to go to cars.gov or anything else .gov.


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## KittenKoder (Jul 31, 2009)

Okay, I found a blog with the video of the newscast, it looks like a legit fear to me. As they say, it may not be as intrusive as some say, but the implications are frightening.

Beck Exposes Cars.gov Computer Information Grab | Bucks Right


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## DK1901 (Jul 31, 2009)

I've just been all over the site, and I can't find anything about this policy. I knew about it before I went--that's why I went, cautiously--so I'm positive I didn't accidentally agree to it or anything. 

Have they taken it down? Or do I have to do something to trigger the message? Glenn Beck's video shows him clicking on the "submit transaction" button in the dealer section, but I can find no such button anywhere on the site.
His video displays 7 blue buttons on the right-hand side of the dealer page, but I only count six now.

I'd really like to read this policy for myself, directly from their site...


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## xotoxi (Jul 31, 2009)

Xenophon said:


> No problem, I have no desire to go to cars.gov or anything else .gov.


 
What about firmroundtits.gov?


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## dilloduck (Jul 31, 2009)

xotoxi said:


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that redirects you to EZ.com


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## Xenophon (Jul 31, 2009)

xotoxi said:


> Xenophon said:
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Why would I want to visit Ted kennedy's website?


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## xotoxi (Jul 31, 2009)

Xenophon said:


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Because I thought you were gay.

Ooops!  Sorry.  My bad.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 1, 2009)

DK1901 said:


> I've just been all over the site, and I can't find anything about this policy. I knew about it before I went--that's why I went, cautiously--so I'm positive I didn't accidentally agree to it or anything.
> 
> Have they taken it down? Or do I have to do something to trigger the message? Glenn Beck's video shows him clicking on the "submit transaction" button in the dealer section, but I can find no such button anywhere on the site.
> His video displays 7 blue buttons on the right-hand side of the dealer page, but I only count six now.
> ...



That is a possibility, the only reason I see this as valid is because several sources have said as much, whether it's actually there or not, I can't say for certain and they may have removed it since the outrage. But it is possible for legal reasons as well. Anything posted on here, for instance, is considered USMB property unless otherwise copyrighted (such as media files and such) just to protect the owners in case someone else links to it. Normally these policies are inane, just redundancies to protect the owners, but they can take it further if the government allows. Like Google's, everything stored on their servers is considered public domain, it's to keep people from suing them when it shows up on the search engine.


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## Emma (Aug 1, 2009)

Beck says in the video it's on the _dealers'_ transaction page. Which would make sense considering what they're probably accessing. Much ado about nothing.


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## Ravi (Aug 1, 2009)

Emma said:


> Beck says in the video it's on the _dealers'_ transaction page. Which would make sense considering what they're probably accessing. Much ado about nothing.


That makes sense and it also makes PP a liar, unless he's a car dealer, of course. 



PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Ravi said:
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> > I don't believe you. I didn't get that message.
> ...


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## KittenKoder (Aug 1, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Emma said:
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> > Beck says in the video it's on the _dealers'_ transaction page. Which would make sense considering what they're probably accessing. Much ado about nothing.
> ...



Or ... now I may be giving them the benefit of the doubt here, call me silly but sometimes I like to see the possibility that they are just ignorant like you ... maybe PP clicked the wrong "log in" or "create account" ... maybe.


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## xsited1 (Aug 1, 2009)

chanel said:


> Remember the Patriot Act and the NSA wiretapping controversy? The libs were screaming about the privacy rights of suspected terrorists. They accused Pres Bush of tapping our phones and reading our emails. They wanted to sue all our telcoms for assisting the govt. Where are those cry babies now?



Well said.  Most don't even regret voting for Obama.  Simply put, they are Liberal Fascists.


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## Xenophon (Aug 1, 2009)

xotoxi said:


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Speaking of gay, I see you made it to 100, but not by your deadline, so you are supposed to leave!


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## Brn2bfree (Aug 2, 2009)

*Cars.gov allows government to takeover your computer 

Warning! If you get on 'cars.gov'......you're computer will become the property of the government. *

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWs12ccbOiE]YouTube - Glenn Beck: Cars.gov allows government to takeover your computer[/ame]


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## EriktheRed (Aug 2, 2009)

Brn2bfree said:


> *Cars.gov allows government to takeover your computer
> 
> Warning! If you get on 'cars.gov'......you're computer will become the property of the government. *
> 
> YouTube - Glenn Beck: Cars.gov allows government to takeover your computer



Well, there's the problem right there: listening to Glenn Beck!




Emma said:


> Beck says in the video it's on the _dealers'_ transaction page. Which would make sense considering what they're probably accessing. Much ado about nothing.


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## Emma (Aug 2, 2009)

EriktheRed said:


> Brn2bfree said:
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I worked for NIH. Their training regarding security is _very_ thorough... and kinda scary too lol. They made it crystal clear that, while I _could_  access their site (employee stuff not publicly accessible) from my own computer, they would be monitoring my every move. I never had the nerve to actually try it 

My question is... 

Since this is dealer access (to get approval for _funds_), would these people NOT want this kind of protection?


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## Ravi (Aug 2, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Ravi said:
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There is nowhere on the site to log in. No linkie. There is a form you can fill out to ask a question about your authorization code. Which leads me to believe you can't log in if you haven't got an authorization code. So if PP isn't lying about the "message" he got and he isn't a dealer then he tried to hack the site.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 2, 2009)

Ravi said:


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Sheesh, you just have to open mouth and insert foot ... "log in" is a generic term for "access account" or "register your visit" or many other things, same with "create account" ... thus why I put them in quotes.

It is still possible it existed, it is also possible that they took it off the site when someone mentioned it. Again, you have no proof otherwise, no more proof that it didn't happen than they do proof that it did. However, it *is* not only possible but likely, due to the fact that their site is trying something every time I try to load it up, just my knowing how to protect myself prevents it from happening.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 2, 2009)

Oh, and Ravi, found what they were talking about:

https://app.e2ma.net/app/view:Join/signupId:62720/acctId:36812

... and it's not just dealers, it's for everyone.


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## Ravi (Aug 3, 2009)

Here's what you get at the link:



> Your information has been submitted. Thanks!
> A confirmation email is on its way to xxxxx@gmail.com and should arrive shortly.
> 
> Note: To ensure proper delivery of our emails, take a moment now and add us - info@cars.gov - to your address book, trusted sender list, or company white list.


Like I said, you're getting as bad as the other conspiracy theorists.


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## Ravi (Aug 3, 2009)

btw, if you couldn't get onto the website because your settings are screwed up then how did you find that link?


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## KittenKoder (Aug 3, 2009)

Ravi said:


> btw, if you couldn't get onto the website because your settings are screwed up then how did you find that link?



Settings were never screwed up, I have a very high security setup on my computer, but I found a way through their crap is all.

Now, the link I showed you was what they were talking about which applies to both, and if you go to their terms and conditions they modified them. That's suspicious enough. Since when did you start trusting the government so openly? I thought you were against intrusion, especially subversive intrusion like what this suggests.


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## Ravi (Aug 3, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Ravi said:
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> > btw, if you couldn't get onto the website because your settings are screwed up then how did you find that link?
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 I don't trust the government. I just trust posters on a message board with an agenda less.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 3, 2009)

Ravi said:


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Actually, today, like yesterday, my agenda is clear, just rendering a video is all I have on it, but that's automated.

My mistake, it's not the government you trust, just your savior Obama who you seem to trust blindly. That's scarier than what they can do, blindly trusting someone in power is not very bright.


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## Care4all (Aug 3, 2009)

chanel said:


> Remember the Patriot Act and the NSA wiretapping controversy? The libs were screaming about the privacy rights of suspected terrorists. They accused Pres Bush of tapping our phones and reading our emails. They wanted to sue all our telcoms for assisting the govt. Where are those cry babies now?



simply not true....we were not screaming about the privacy rights of suspected terrorists...nice conservative spin though!

what dems were screaming about was the privacy rights of americans...OUR CONSTITUTIONAL rights, while conservatives laughed and spit on them!

what precisely do you want to see dems do in this situation?  what have YOU DONE regarding this situation, IF IT IS TRUE, and SINCE you believed it....?

care


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## Ravi (Aug 3, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


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I was actually talking about PP when I referred to agenda. I realize you have no agenda, you're just not very bright.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 3, 2009)

Ravi said:


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Everyone has an agenda ... look up the word, and thus why it is you who is not so bright, considering you missed the smartassery completely. 

PP posted something that was not only possible legally, it's extremely possible programatically. You probably have a ton of worms in your system, if you are running Windoze, and even with the best anti-viral program you will still have a few, that's why web servers run Linux/Unix.  So it is possible no matter how you spin it, since they can legally do it and there is a way for them to have a program installed, many sites do it without you ever knowing it. Now, the difference here is that they openly announced it, and that did happen. You are denying something which has many sources confirming. The net isn't just USMB, there are millions online every second of every day, and all you have to do is know where to look. Here's a hint though, a person's best sources are often those who share the same interests.


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## Ravi (Aug 3, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


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Glenn Beck and a bunch of rightwing nut sites aren't credible sources, no matter that you'll agree with anyone that furthers your hysterical conspiracy theory lunacy. 

I'm dying laughing over your other thread about the search feature here.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 3, 2009)

Ravi said:


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You lack of knowledge for computers is astounding, I can't for the life of me figure out how you even manage to turn them on, much less get pas the screensaver.


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## Ravi (Aug 3, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


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 Another matter you can't admit to being wrong about.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Aug 3, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Oh, and Ravi, found what they were talking about:
> 
> https://app.e2ma.net/app/view:Join/signupId:62720/acctId:36812
> 
> ... and it's not just dealers, it's for everyone.



Well i went to log in from work on friday (yes we do sell cars as well as fix them) and the message was there.

It is gone now.  I logged in this morning and it didn't pop up.

 Sasha Johnson from the DEPT of Transportation made an announcement earlier today about this



			
				sasha johnson DOT said:
			
		

> A security warning that was on the CARS.gov dealer support page that stated computers logged into the system were considered property of the Federal Government has been removed.  We are working to revise the language.




Thanks for having my back Kitten


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## KittenKoder (Aug 3, 2009)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> KittenKoder said:
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NP, the people who think they are completely safe online are fools more than the people who worry about the boogy man on every site. The only reason there is safety is because of watchdogs like us who know what to look for, it spreads like wildfire through the developer networks, which on several of the chats and forums on those I am part of there was confirmation. Most people don't realize where their surfing safety really comes from.

Thank you for posting here though, it was one that I hadn't been paying attention to since I normally avoid automotive topics elsewhere. As for Ravi, she's pissed that her savior could actually do something she didn't like is all.


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## Ravi (Aug 4, 2009)

Sorry, PP, your entire OP was full of lies...so it is impossible for any rational person to believe your subsequent story that you are in a position to access the dealer portion of cars.gov. 

Here's a nice little run down on the Beck bullshit, if anyone cares.

PolitiFact | On Glenn Beck&#39;s Fox News program, Guilfoyle claims government&#39;s Cash for Clunkers Web site would give government complete access to your home computer


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## KittenKoder (Aug 4, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Sorry, PP, your entire OP was full of lies...so it is impossible for any rational person to believe your subsequent story that you are in a position to access the dealer portion of cars.gov.
> 
> Here's a nice little run down on the Beck bullshit, if anyone cares.
> 
> PolitiFact | On Glenn Beck's Fox News program, Guilfoyle claims government's Cash for Clunkers Web site would give government complete access to your home computer



You really do have a problem with anything that makes your savior look bad, no matter how dangerous it would be to ignore.


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## Ravi (Aug 4, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Ravi said:
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> > Sorry, PP, your entire OP was full of lies...so it is impossible for any rational person to believe your subsequent story that you are in a position to access the dealer portion of cars.gov.
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I'm sorry Obama has deranged you so. Sounds like you are the one having the problem with saviors gone bad.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 4, 2009)

Ravi said:


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Really, there is no other reasoning for you to contradict something many programmers have said is possible, and something which the laws say is possible ... unless you are just trolling.


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## Ravi (Aug 4, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


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 You're too much.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 4, 2009)

Ravi said:


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Really, I will accept that, if you agree you are too little.

Point to where I am wrong, with proof, evidence, and the IRC chat log to demonstrate otherwise.


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## jillian (Aug 4, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Really, there is no other reasoning for you to contradict something many programmers have said is possible, and something which the laws say is possible ... unless you are just trolling.



Funny... I'd say that there's no reason to believe the assertions.  Other than your own paranoia, perhaps you could provide some proof. I don't think any of us would appreciate the kind of invasiveness that we're talking about.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 4, 2009)

jillian said:


> KittenKoder said:
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> > Really, there is no other reasoning for you to contradict something many programmers have said is possible, and something which the laws say is possible ... unless you are just trolling.
> ...



The proof for what, or should I say, which part?

Proof for the ability, check on Windoze service record, it's very possible. Sometimes a little paranoia is the best way to protect your information, specifically bank accounts when you bank online. Knowing how to protect networks is part of my job IRL, without the paranoia and knowledge of how to protect computer systems I wouldn't be making a living, now would I?


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## PixieStix (Aug 4, 2009)

Do not trust any link that ends in _*".gov"*_


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## KittenKoder (Aug 4, 2009)

PixieStix said:


> Do not trust any link that ends in _*".gov"*_



That's a little too general. Just listen when people offer a warning. If you doubt it, look into it. A warning, no matter how "insane" sounding, about computer security, should be considered.

The problem is that the ".gov" extension is not exclusive to the "trusted ones", anyone can buy a ".gov" site, and even a government organization can misuse the trust of the naive.


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## Ravi (Aug 4, 2009)

I heard that anyone that logs onto the internet is in danger of being sucked into outer space by aliens. This warning, no matter how insane, should be heeded.


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## PixieStix (Aug 4, 2009)

Ravi said:


> I heard that anyone that logs onto the internet is in danger of being sucked into outer space by aliens. This warning, no matter how insane, should be heeded.


 

Then go ahead and sign up and get back to us, just do not include me on your email list, thank you. And have a nice life


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## Ravi (Aug 4, 2009)

btw, Kitten, you can't get a .gov domain name unless you get authorization from the GSA.

LOL! You really should read up on what you claim to be an expert in.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 4, 2009)

Ravi said:


> btw, Kitten, you can't get a .gov domain name unless you get authorization from the GSA.
> 
> LOL! You really should read up on what you claim to be an expert in.



... and you think that only a specific few can get that? You are even more naive than I thought. The hardest part is paying for the yearly costs ...


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## KittenKoder (Aug 4, 2009)

Also, never claimed to be an "expert" in computers, I just know a lot more than you.


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## Ravi (Aug 4, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


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Yeah, anyone can get the GSA to grant them a .gov domain. Forgive me, Kitten, I never realized you were mentally challenged.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 4, 2009)

Ravi said:


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I would do it just to prove you wrong, but I don't want to pay $500 (or more) just to prove to you that you are a fool.


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## Ravi (Aug 4, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


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Go ahead. Do it and I'll refund you the $500.


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## Paulie (Aug 4, 2009)

This is the official website to apply for a .gov domain:

.GOV Registration

How would it be possible to defraud them and get them to accept you as a legitimate government organization?


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## KittenKoder (Aug 4, 2009)

Ravi said:


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Now you assume I have that much available at this time ... 

Yeah, you really do care about the poor don't you, trying to con one of us into wasting our money on your glorious government while supporting them taxing us to death ...

*yawn* Okay, now I'm bored with you for a bit. Why now you are wondering, because you have shown you only care about protecting your savior and nothing more, thanks for making my point.


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## Ravi (Aug 4, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


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 See Pauli's post above. I'm not trying to con you, just pointing out that you don't know what you are talking about. You pretend to be knowledgeable about almost everything and yet you are proven incorrect over and over and over again.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Aug 4, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Ravi said:
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> > Sorry, PP, your entire OP was full of lies...so it is impossible for any rational person to believe your subsequent story that you are in a position to access the dealer portion of cars.gov.
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Maybe I should take ravi off my ignore list...her and charlie bass are the 2 who are on it 

KK this really didn't have to do with Obama IMO, it has to do with the federal govt in general.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 4, 2009)

Ravi said:


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Actually, I did a site for someone who did go through the "process" ... so yeah, been there done that. I only charged 50 bucks for the site, since it was one of my first official jobs. I know this may be hard for you to understand, but government agencies that control licenses (such as this) can be bribed, of course they don't call it that, they call it "processing fees". 

Oh look, it's your lucky day, I decided to respond once more for the hell of it.


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## Ravi (Aug 4, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


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Yeah, sure Kitten. Sure.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 4, 2009)

Ravi said:


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Just because you work for a bunch of crooks, don't take it out on me.


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## Ravi (Aug 4, 2009)

I don't believe you for a minute. It's possible that someone conned you into believing you were working on a phony government web site. But it isn't possible that you and your dimwitted cohort are smart enough to get past the GSA.

Either that, or you are admitting to a fraud against the Federal government and are looking at time in the Federal pen.



IMO, you are just lying because you got caught not knowing what you are talking about. No big deal.


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## Paulie (Aug 4, 2009)

I certainly don't rule out the possibility of a bribe.  

But I seriously doubt it's something insignificant like an extra Benjie or two handed under the table.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 5, 2009)

Paulie said:


> I certainly don't rule out the possibility of a bribe.
> 
> But I seriously doubt it's something insignificant like an extra Benjie or two handed under the table.



The problem is that bribes can go by many names, and can be made legally as well. They are very easy to cover up. Almost all "fees" associated with getting a license from the government is a bribe and nothing more.


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## PixieStix (Aug 5, 2009)

I wonder if someone was to refinance their home, if the bank also know as the government, owns your house too 

Is this why Obama wants all of us to refinance?


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## KittenKoder (Aug 5, 2009)

PixieStix said:


> I wonder if someone was to refinance their home, if the bank also know as the government, owns your house too
> 
> Is this why Obama wants all of us to refinance?



It wouldn't surprise me. I know too little about that situation though to speculate. 

My whole point here is that it's feasible, and even likely at this stage with Obama's ranting about "cyber security" when he knows nothing of how the web works and his attempting to push government contracts onto private businesses (Government Motors fiasco). This is only a little paranoia, it's not a scare, and a little paranoia will keep you safe as long as you don't get out of hand. The fact that their policy was altered after the report by a media personality betrays something hidden, and that should make people worried a bit.


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