# Finally -- Texans Can Open-Carry Without Government Intervention



## Biff_Poindexter

Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
					

House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.




					www.texastribune.org
				




*"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*

That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing -- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....


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## TNHarley

GO TEXAS!


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## Donald H

Likely not going to make any difference in Texas. Bad people who shoot their fellow Americans are 'good' people with guns until they start shooting people. Every gun owner is a potential killer. 

Maybe one way to screen out the good people wanting to own guns from the 'bad' would be to ask them one simple question before allowing them to start building an arsenal.

*Do you intend to shoot at human silouette targets?*


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## Donald H

TNHarley said:


> GO TEXAS!


The proof of this being a wise move for Texas will start to be proven no later than Friday night! 

Then on Saturday morning Texans will wake up hearing the news of how the night was kept so quiet and peaceful by 'good' gun owners in the bars and taverns. 
Will the libruls then learn to stfu?


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## NoNukes

Donald H said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> GO TEXAS!
> 
> 
> 
> The proof of this being a wise move for Texas will start to be proven no later than Friday night!
> 
> Then on Saturday morning Texans will wake up hearing the news of how the night was kept so quiet and peaceful by 'good' gun owners in the bars and taverns.
> Will the libruls then learn to stfu?
Click to expand...

Alcohol and handguns are such a good combination.


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## Donald H

NoNukes said:


> Alcohol and handguns are such a good combination.


Children learn by  having to face the consequences of their bad behaviour.


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## d0gbreath

Donald H said:


> The proof of this being a wise move for Texas will start to be proven no later than Friday night!
> 
> Then on Saturday morning Texans will wake up hearing the news of how the night was kept so quiet and peaceful by 'good' gun owners in the bars and taverns.
> Will the libruls then learn to stfu?


You still won't be able to bring a gun into a bar.


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## Biff_Poindexter

Hidden said:


> Donald H said:
> 
> 
> 
> The proof of this being a wise move for Texas will start to be proven no later than Friday night!
> 
> Then on Saturday morning Texans will wake up hearing the news of how the night was kept so quiet and peaceful by 'good' gun owners in the bars and taverns.
> Will the libruls then learn to stfu?
> 
> 
> 
> You still won't be able to bring a gun into a bar.
Click to expand...

That's basically communism


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## TNHarley

Donald H said:


> Likely not going to make any difference in Texas. Bad people who shoot their fellow Americans are 'good' people with guns until they start shooting people. Every gun owner is a potential killer.
> 
> Maybe one way to screen out the good people wanting to own guns from the 'bad' would be to ask them one simple question before allowing them to start building an arsenal.
> 
> *Do you intend to shoot at human silouette targets?*


Every knife owner is a potential killer!


			https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/knife-related-homicides-rise-statscan-1.889426


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## TNHarley

Donald H said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> GO TEXAS!
> 
> 
> 
> The proof of this being a wise move for Texas will start to be proven no later than Friday night!
> 
> Then on Saturday morning Texans will wake up hearing the news of how the night was kept so quiet and peaceful by 'good' gun owners in the bars and taverns.
> Will the libruls then learn to stfu?
Click to expand...

Hope so!


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## Biff_Poindexter

TNHarley said:


> Donald H said:
> 
> 
> 
> Likely not going to make any difference in Texas. Bad people who shoot their fellow Americans are 'good' people with guns until they start shooting people. Every gun owner is a potential killer.
> 
> Maybe one way to screen out the good people wanting to own guns from the 'bad' would be to ask them one simple question before allowing them to start building an arsenal.
> 
> *Do you intend to shoot at human silouette targets?*
> 
> 
> 
> Every knife owner is a potential killer!
> 
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/knife-related-homicides-rise-statscan-1.889426
Click to expand...

grenade owners too....

oh wait!





__





						PENAL CODE  CHAPTER 46. WEAPONS
					





					statutes.capitol.texas.gov
				




Damn it, Texas bans grenades??  How can we fight against tyranny without grenades......


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## TNHarley

Biff_Poindexter said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald H said:
> 
> 
> 
> Likely not going to make any difference in Texas. Bad people who shoot their fellow Americans are 'good' people with guns until they start shooting people. Every gun owner is a potential killer.
> 
> Maybe one way to screen out the good people wanting to own guns from the 'bad' would be to ask them one simple question before allowing them to start building an arsenal.
> 
> *Do you intend to shoot at human silouette targets?*
> 
> 
> 
> Every knife owner is a potential killer!
> 
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/knife-related-homicides-rise-statscan-1.889426
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> grenade owners too....
> 
> oh wait!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PENAL CODE  CHAPTER 46. WEAPONS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> statutes.capitol.texas.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damn it, Texas bans grenades??  How can we fight against tyranny without grenades......
Click to expand...

Good point!
Get on the ball, texas!


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## HereWeGoAgain

NoNukes said:


> Donald H said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> GO TEXAS!
> 
> 
> 
> The proof of this being a wise move for Texas will start to be proven no later than Friday night!
> 
> Then on Saturday morning Texans will wake up hearing the news of how the night was kept so quiet and peaceful by 'good' gun owners in the bars and taverns.
> Will the libruls then learn to stfu?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Alcohol and handguns are such a good combination.
Click to expand...


  Carrying a firearm while intoxicated is a crime.


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## TNHarley

HereWeGoAgain said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald H said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> GO TEXAS!
> 
> 
> 
> The proof of this being a wise move for Texas will start to be proven no later than Friday night!
> 
> Then on Saturday morning Texans will wake up hearing the news of how the night was kept so quiet and peaceful by 'good' gun owners in the bars and taverns.
> Will the libruls then learn to stfu?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Alcohol and handguns are such a good combination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Carrying a firearm while intoxicated is a crime.
Click to expand...

govt supremacists have to make shit up so they can have an argument.


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## marvin martian

Biff_Poindexter said:


> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing -- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....



It hasn't passed yet, but I hope it does soon.  Texas will join 17 other states that don't infringe on their citizens' civil rights.

Thankfully, the vast majority of folks shooting each other occurs in places run by people exactly like you.


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## Biff_Poindexter

marvin martian said:


> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing -- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It hasn't passed yet, but I hope it does soon.  Texas will join 17 other states that don't infringe on their citizens' civil rights.
> 
> Thankfully, the vast majority of folks shooting each other occurs in places run by people exactly like you.
Click to expand...

You mean like Texas??

Because that is where I live........

I am just happy that I can open carry anywhere I want without having to take that burdensome conceal carry class and pay for a goofy license


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## marvin martian

Biff_Poindexter said:


> marvin martian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing -- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It hasn't passed yet, but I hope it does soon.  Texas will join 17 other states that don't infringe on their citizens' civil rights.
> 
> Thankfully, the vast majority of folks shooting each other occurs in places run by people exactly like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean like Texas??
> 
> Because that is where I live........
> 
> I am just happy that I can open carry anywhere I want without having to take that burdensome conceal carry class and pay for a goofy license
Click to expand...


As you well know, Texas isn't run by people like you, hence the civil rights citizens still have there.


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth

Biff_Poindexter said:


> marvin martian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing -- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It hasn't passed yet, but I hope it does soon.  Texas will join 17 other states that don't infringe on their citizens' civil rights.
> 
> Thankfully, the vast majority of folks shooting each other occurs in places run by people exactly like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean like Texas??
> 
> Because that is where I live........
> 
> I am just happy that I can open carry anywhere I want without having to take that burdensome conceal carry class and pay for a goofy license
Click to expand...

I am glad you can too.  Start doing it.  Be a force of your own.


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## marvin martian

Biff_Poindexter said:


> marvin martian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing -- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It hasn't passed yet, but I hope it does soon.  Texas will join 17 other states that don't infringe on their citizens' civil rights.
> 
> Thankfully, the vast majority of folks shooting each other occurs in places run by people exactly like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean like Texas??
> 
> Because that is where I live........
> 
> I am just happy that I can open carry anywhere I want without having to take that burdensome conceal carry class and pay for a goofy license
Click to expand...


I'm happy you can, too.  If you were living in a state run by people like you, you wouldn't be allowed to have these civil rights.


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## Resnic

Donald H said:


> Likely not going to make any difference in Texas. Bad people who shoot their fellow Americans are 'good' people with guns until they start shooting people. Every gun owner is a potential killer.
> 
> Maybe one way to screen out the good people wanting to own guns from the 'bad' would be to ask them one simple question before allowing them to start building an arsenal.
> 
> *Do you intend to shoot at human silouette targets?*



I'm willing to bet there will be no difference at all in the amount of people who carry. I guarantee you a whole lot of people already carry without a permit, they just conceal it and don't tell anyone.

If you have a 1,000 people with a permit carrying then you probably have 4,000 carrying without one.

And being a gun owner does not make you a potential killer. Being a human being makes you a potential killer. I've known gun owners my whole life, I owned 4 or 5 guns at the age of 8 and never once in my life has anyone I've ever known to own guns has killed anyone.


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## Ray From Cleveland

Biff_Poindexter said:


> ou mean like Texas??
> 
> Because that is where I live........
> 
> I am just happy that I can open carry anywhere I want without having to take that burdensome conceal carry class and pay for a goofy license



They were talking about that in my state and I'm against it.  Several times I went to the range and some punk ass young guys were there treating the gun like it was a toy.  One time I seen them Fn around and fire a round into the ceiling, then started to laugh like two drunks at a bar that heard a really funny joke.  

When you take the time and effort to get a license, at least those people take firearms seriously.  You have to learn how to handle a gun safely, learn all the laws that pertain to carrying a gun, and demonstrate your ability to shoot the damn thing on a range.  

Without a license there will be people out there carrying a gun without knowing the laws or safety precautions like downrange.  Or perhaps people getting a gun when they never shot a gun in their life or know anything about it.  You see these lowlifes all the time with their drive by shootings and they end up killing a 5 year old watching cartoons in her living room.  Lowlifes won't spend the money to learn about guns nor go to the range to practice.  They just start shooting and whatever they hit, they hit and don't care.


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## Ray From Cleveland

TNHarley said:


> Every knife owner is a potential killer!



That's funny because in my state they just passed legislation that all knives are legal, and that includes brass knuckles.  I have switch blades and stilettos but never took them out because they were illegal.  Now I can.


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## Ray From Cleveland

Hidden said:


> You still won't be able to bring a gun into a bar.



You can in my state, but you can't consume any alcohol.


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## Ray From Cleveland

Donald H said:


> Likely not going to make any difference in Texas. Bad people who shoot their fellow Americans are 'good' people with guns until they start shooting people. Every gun owner is a potential killer.
> 
> Maybe one way to screen out the good people wanting to own guns from the 'bad' would be to ask them one simple question before allowing them to start building an arsenal.
> 
> *Do you intend to shoot at human silouette targets?*



What good would that do?  You do know that people use guns to defend themselves against other people,  don't you?  

Yes, there are bad people with guns which is why good people need guns to defend themselves against those armed bad people.


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## TNHarley

Ray From Cleveland said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every knife owner is a potential killer!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's funny because in my state they just passed legislation that all knives are legal, and that includes brass knuckles.  I have switch blades and stilettos but never took them out because they were illegal.  Now I can.
Click to expand...

Must be canadian culture


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## Donald H

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Donald H said:
> 
> 
> 
> Likely not going to make any difference in Texas. Bad people who shoot their fellow Americans are 'good' people with guns until they start shooting people. Every gun owner is a potential killer.
> 
> Maybe one way to screen out the good people wanting to own guns from the 'bad' would be to ask them one simple question before allowing them to start building an arsenal.
> 
> *Do you intend to shoot at human silouette targets?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What good would that do?  You do know that people use guns to defend themselves against other people,  don't you?
> 
> Yes, there are bad people with guns which is why good people need guns to defend themselves against those armed bad people.
Click to expand...

People who use their guns to pretend to defend themselves against other gun owners are bad people. 
They're people who depend on their gun to make them equal to physically superior people. This it the reason why most black men don't rely on guns to keep themselves safe. 

Maybe they should start carrying guns too? Should a Canadian care? 
More pain and suffering and death is probably the only way to learning for Americans. The rest of the modern world celebrates life while Americans are all wrapped up in their guns that are a celebration of death.


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## TNHarley

Donald H said:


> This it the reason why most black men don't rely on guns to keep themselves safe.


A huge majority of gun homicides are done by blacks, you foreign dumbfuck.


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## TNHarley

All this donald dipshit is good for is lies.
Its sad really.


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## marvin martian

Donald H said:


> *Do you intend to shoot at human silouette targets?*



Like the cops do?


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## candycorn

Stupid is as Texas does.  

Another idiotic move by a state full of paranoid losers.


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## Ray From Cleveland

Donald H said:


> People who use their guns to pretend to defend themselves against other gun owners are bad people.
> They're people who depend on their gun to make them equal to physically superior people. This it the reason why most black men don't rely on guns to keep themselves safe.
> 
> Maybe they should start carrying guns too? Should a Canadian care?
> More pain and suffering and death is probably the only way to learning for Americans. The rest of the modern world celebrates life while Americans are all wrapped up in their guns that are a celebration of death.



We must have a lot of bad people because Americans use their gun between 1 million to 4 million times a year depending on which study you subscribe to.  The FBI statistics has it at 1.1 million.  Going with the FBI statistics, Americans use their guns to save their life or the life of other people 1.1 million times a year.  So what would happen if we didn't have guns?  We'd have 1.1 million more violent crimes against innocent people annually.  

If you are at a bar and somebody tries to punch you, are you a bad person for blocking that punch?  And what if they strike you, are you a bad person for striking them back?  

In the United States, statistically you are six times more likely to be killed by a black person than a white.  In spite of only being 13% of our population, they are responsible for over 50% of our murders and violent crimes.  Where you got this nonsense blacks don't carry guns is beyond me.


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## Donald H

Ray From Cleveland said:


> In the United States, statistically you are six times more likely to be killed by a black person than a white.  In spite of only being 13% of our population, they are responsible for over 50% of our murders and violent crimes.  Where you got this nonsense blacks don't carry guns is beyond me.



You have to won your own torment and anger Ray.


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## Ray From Cleveland

Donald H said:


> You have to won your own torment and anger Ray.



And if somebody can explain to me WTF that even means, I'll appreciate it.


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## Whodatsaywhodat.

Donald H said:


> Likely not going to make any difference in Texas. Bad people who shoot their fellow Americans are 'good' people with guns until they start shooting people. Every gun owner is a potential killer.
> 
> Maybe one way to screen out the good people wanting to own guns from the 'bad' would be to ask them one simple question before allowing them to start building an arsenal.
> 
> *Do you intend to shoot at human silouette targets?*


Lol... your a moron.


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## 22lcidw

Donald H said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald H said:
> 
> 
> 
> Likely not going to make any difference in Texas. Bad people who shoot their fellow Americans are 'good' people with guns until they start shooting people. Every gun owner is a potential killer.
> 
> Maybe one way to screen out the good people wanting to own guns from the 'bad' would be to ask them one simple question before allowing them to start building an arsenal.
> 
> *Do you intend to shoot at human silouette targets?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What good would that do?  You do know that people use guns to defend themselves against other people,  don't you?
> 
> Yes, there are bad people with guns which is why good people need guns to defend themselves against those armed bad people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People who use their guns to pretend to defend themselves against other gun owners are bad people.
> They're people who depend on their gun to make them equal to physically superior people. This it the reason why most black men don't rely on guns to keep themselves safe.
> 
> Maybe they should start carrying guns too? Should a Canadian care?
> More pain and suffering and death is probably the only way to learning for Americans. The rest of the modern world celebrates life while Americans are all wrapped up in their guns that are a celebration of death.
Click to expand...

In Western Europe they are arresting people for  mundane comments. They have very few weapons for protection compared to the United States. What has happened is people are more prone to use the weapons today and over the last few decades. The media, activists and politicians have riled groups up and they have acted as predicted. So everyone gets the blame like we are in school as kids.


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## ding

Donald H said:


> Likely not going to make any difference in Texas. Bad people who shoot their fellow Americans are 'good' people with guns until they start shooting people. Every gun owner is a potential killer.
> 
> Maybe one way to screen out the good people wanting to own guns from the 'bad' would be to ask them one simple question before allowing them to start building an arsenal.
> 
> *Do you intend to shoot at human silouette targets?*


Would you like to ban guns and confiscate them?


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## NoNukes

Donald H said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> Alcohol and handguns are such a good combination.
> 
> 
> 
> Children learn by  having to face the consequences of their bad behaviour.
Click to expand...

It is against the law for children to drink. Your point is useless.


----------



## NoNukes

HereWeGoAgain said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald H said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> GO TEXAS!
> 
> 
> 
> The proof of this being a wise move for Texas will start to be proven no later than Friday night!
> 
> Then on Saturday morning Texans will wake up hearing the news of how the night was kept so quiet and peaceful by 'good' gun owners in the bars and taverns.
> Will the libruls then learn to stfu?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Alcohol and handguns are such a good combination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Carrying a firearm while intoxicated is a crime.
Click to expand...

Then why allow them in bars?


----------



## 2aguy

Donald H said:


> Likely not going to make any difference in Texas. Bad people who shoot their fellow Americans are 'good' people with guns until they start shooting people. Every gun owner is a potential killer.
> 
> Maybe one way to screen out the good people wanting to own guns from the 'bad' would be to ask them one simple question before allowing them to start building an arsenal.
> 
> *Do you intend to shoot at human silouette targets?*




No...they are not "Good People," before they shoot someone.   You anti-gunners pull that BS out of your ass and then think it is true......you are an idiot....









						The Criminology of Firearms
					

Don Kates, The Independent Institute




					www.jurist.org
				




In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

*Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.*

*While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. *

*Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."*


----------



## 2aguy

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> ou mean like Texas??
> 
> Because that is where I live........
> 
> I am just happy that I can open carry anywhere I want without having to take that burdensome conceal carry class and pay for a goofy license
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were talking about that in my state and I'm against it.  Several times I went to the range and some punk ass young guys were there treating the gun like it was a toy.  One time I seen them Fn around and fire a round into the ceiling, then started to laugh like two drunks at a bar that heard a really funny joke.
> 
> When you take the time and effort to get a license, at least those people take firearms seriously.  You have to learn how to handle a gun safely, learn all the laws that pertain to carrying a gun, and demonstrate your ability to shoot the damn thing on a range.
> 
> Without a license there will be people out there carrying a gun without knowing the laws or safety precautions like downrange.  Or perhaps people getting a gun when they never shot a gun in their life or know anything about it.  You see these lowlifes all the time with their drive by shootings and they end up killing a 5 year old watching cartoons in her living room.  Lowlifes won't spend the money to learn about guns nor go to the range to practice.  They just start shooting and whatever they hit, they hit and don't care.
Click to expand...



Sorry...but the democrats use licensing laws as a way to keep people from owning and carrying guns........give them that inch and they will make it impossible to own or carry a gun when they get the power...


----------



## freyasman

Biff_Poindexter said:


> marvin martian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing -- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It hasn't passed yet, but I hope it does soon.  Texas will join 17 other states that don't infringe on their citizens' civil rights.
> 
> Thankfully, the vast majority of folks shooting each other occurs in places run by people exactly like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean like Texas??
> 
> Because that is where I live........
> 
> I am just happy that I can open carry anywhere I want without having to take that burdensome conceal carry class and pay for a goofy license
Click to expand...

Maybe you should move.

You don't seem to really like or have any respect for your neighbors anyway, so maybe find another place to live.


----------



## freyasman

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> ou mean like Texas??
> 
> Because that is where I live........
> 
> I am just happy that I can open carry anywhere I want without having to take that burdensome conceal carry class and pay for a goofy license
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were talking about that in my state and I'm against it.  Several times I went to the range and some punk ass young guys were there treating the gun like it was a toy.  One time I seen them Fn around and fire a round into the ceiling, then started to laugh like two drunks at a bar that heard a really funny joke.
> 
> When you take the time and effort to get a license, at least those people take firearms seriously.  You have to learn how to handle a gun safely, learn all the laws that pertain to carrying a gun, and demonstrate your ability to shoot the damn thing on a range.
> 
> Without a license there will be people out there carrying a gun without knowing the laws or safety precautions like downrange.  Or perhaps people getting a gun when they never shot a gun in their life or know anything about it.  You see these lowlifes all the time with their drive by shootings and they end up killing a 5 year old watching cartoons in her living room.  Lowlifes won't spend the money to learn about guns nor go to the range to practice.  They just start shooting and whatever they hit, they hit and don't care.
Click to expand...

I disagree.

I never ceded the authority to the government to tell me when I could and could not, exercise my rights.


----------



## freyasman

candycorn said:


> Stupid is as Texas does.
> 
> Another idiotic move by a state full of paranoid losers.


Freedom really offends you doesn't it?















That says a lot about what kind of person you are.
Stay the fuck away from me, okay?


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

“A solid majority of Texas voters don't think permitless carry should be allowed, according to the latest University of Texas/Texas Tribune poll.” _ibid_

Fortunately, conservatives don’t believe in polls.


----------



## freyasman

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> “A solid majority of Texas voters don't think permitless carry should be allowed, according to the latest University of Texas/Texas Tribune poll.” _ibid_
> 
> Fortunately, conservatives don’t believe in polls.


That's because they tend to be bullshit.

Like this one is.


----------



## candycorn

freyasman said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid is as Texas does.
> 
> Another idiotic move by a state full of paranoid losers.
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom really offends you doesn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That says a lot about what kind of person you are.
> Stay the fuck away from me, okay?
Click to expand...

Happily.


----------



## freyasman

candycorn said:


> freyasman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid is as Texas does.
> 
> Another idiotic move by a state full of paranoid losers.
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom really offends you doesn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That says a lot about what kind of person you are.
> Stay the fuck away from me, okay?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Happily.
Click to expand...

Further.....


Keep going.....


----------



## candycorn

freyasman said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freyasman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid is as Texas does.
> 
> Another idiotic move by a state full of paranoid losers.
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom really offends you doesn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That says a lot about what kind of person you are.
> Stay the fuck away from me, okay?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Happily.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Further.....
> 
> 
> Keep going.....
Click to expand...

Less of you and more of anyone else is a plus.


----------



## Hugo Furst

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Donald H said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have to won your own torment and anger Ray.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And if somebody can explain to me WTF that even means, I'll appreciate it.
Click to expand...

"You have to *won* your own torment and anger Ray."


looks like it should be *'own'*


----------



## Aletheia4u

Biff_Poindexter said:


> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing -- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....


Another false flag is going to occur again to shutdown this bill. Like the way they have done at the Stop the steal protest at the Capitol.
And so the Deep state are going to orchestrate another spree of gun violence around Texas. That the culprits of these shootings are going to be unlicensed to carry or having an unregistered gun. And then the politicians that are pushing for this bill to pass, will have to surrender to the Anti second amendment regiment. And then gun holders will have a stupid look on their face again as the way they have had at the Stop the steal protest at the Capitol, when they will tell them that they can only carry a single shot pea-shooter. But confiscate all those who have bought more than two round weapons. And it will be easier for them to find if they have placed microchips in gun parts or bullets all around the country.
That they are laughing at the rise of guns and bullets sales. It is because they are seeing so many citizens spending lots of cash on something that they will be snatching it back from them.


----------



## Aletheia4u

With this new 5G network around the country will help them to detect any microchip, even in far secluded areas or in underground shelters or bunkers where it was harder to detect..


----------



## Blues Man

Donald H said:


> Likely not going to make any difference in Texas. Bad people who shoot their fellow Americans are 'good' people with guns until they start shooting people. Every gun owner is a potential killer.
> 
> Maybe one way to screen out the good people wanting to own guns from the 'bad' would be to ask them one simple question before allowing them to start building an arsenal.
> 
> *Do you intend to shoot at human silouette targets?*


So then you must believe every man is a potential rapist.


----------



## Biff_Poindexter

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> ou mean like Texas??
> 
> Because that is where I live........
> 
> I am just happy that I can open carry anywhere I want without having to take that burdensome conceal carry class and pay for a goofy license
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were talking about that in my state and I'm against it.  Several times I went to the range and some punk ass young guys were there treating the gun like it was a toy.  One time I seen them Fn around and fire a round into the ceiling, then started to laugh like two drunks at a bar that heard a really funny joke.
> 
> When you take the time and effort to get a license, at least those people take firearms seriously.  You have to learn how to handle a gun safely, learn all the laws that pertain to carrying a gun, and demonstrate your ability to shoot the damn thing on a range.
> 
> Without a license there will be people out there carrying a gun without knowing the laws or safety precautions like downrange.  Or perhaps people getting a gun when they never shot a gun in their life or know anything about it.  You see these lowlifes all the time with their drive by shootings and they end up killing a 5 year old watching cartoons in her living room.  Lowlifes won't spend the money to learn about guns nor go to the range to practice.  They just start shooting and whatever they hit, they hit and don't care.
Click to expand...

Why are you trying to "RESTRICT" Americans from exercising their 2A rights??


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Biff_Poindexter said:


> Why are you trying to "RESTRICT" Americans from exercising their 2A rights??



What restriction?  Buy all the guns you want, I don't care.  However I think there is a percentage of our people too irresponsible or too stupid to be walking around with a gun in public.  Going through the trouble and cost of getting a license filters out most of those people in my opinion.  

Take a young wanna be thug for instance.  He was never in trouble as an adult before.  Is he going to get a license to carry a gun?  Hell no.  Our state like many others requires applicants to submit electronic fingerprints and have an extensive background check.  So if he does start carrying a gun without a license and gets busted, he will end up in jail or prison stopping a crime before it happens. 

Now that I'm an older guy, I think back to some of the completely stupid things I did when I was younger. I say to myself "WTF was I thinking of??"  I can't imagine what I might have done myself if I was allowed to carry a gun around.  

If our state gets rid of CCWs, then it should only apply for people 30 years old and older.


----------



## Biff_Poindexter

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you trying to "RESTRICT" Americans from exercising their 2A rights??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What restriction?  Buy all the guns you want, I don't care.  However I think there is a percentage of our people too irresponsible or too stupid to be walking around with a gun in public.  Going through the trouble and cost of getting a license filters out most of those people in my opinion.
> 
> Take a young wanna be thug for instance.  He was never in trouble as an adult before.  Is he going to get a license to carry a gun?  Hell no.  Our state like many others requires applicants to submit electronic fingerprints and have an extensive background check.  So if he does start carrying a gun without a license and gets busted, he will end up in jail or prison stopping a crime before it happens.
> 
> Now that I'm an older guy, I think back to some of the completely stupid things I did when I was younger. I say to myself "WTF was I thinking of??"  I can't imagine what I might have done myself if I was allowed to carry a gun around.
> 
> If our state gets rid of CCWs, then it should only apply for people 30 years old and older.
Click to expand...

If he is a "thug" -- wouldn't he be carrying a gun anyway??

Gun laws don't work.....stop being a commie


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

freyasman said:


> I disagree.
> 
> I never ceded the authority to the government to tell me when I could and could not, exercise my rights.



So you were voting at the age of 15?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Biff_Poindexter said:


> If he is a "thug" -- wouldn't he be carrying a gun anyway??
> 
> Gun laws don't work.....stop being a commie



Yes he would, but not legally.  If he gets caught, off to prison with him.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

2aguy said:


> Sorry...but the democrats use licensing laws as a way to keep people from owning and carrying guns........give them that inch and they will make it impossible to own or carry a gun when they get the power...



If that's the case they will do it with licensing or without.


----------



## TheParser

Biff_Poindexter said:


> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing -- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....



Sadly, our country has deteriorated into a society where carrying a firearm may be necessary.

If just one of those Asians who have been assaulted by bad actors recently had used a firearm to defend him/herself, it is probable that some bad actors would think twice about committing such savage acts.

Hopefully this Texas law will be a deterrent to bad actors.  I have read that crime in Texas greatly increased after an influx of young people from a certain state that had suffered a terrible hurricane.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

TheParser said:


> Sadly, our country has deteriorated into a society where carrying a firearm may be necessary.
> 
> If just one of those Asians who have been assaulted by bad actors recently had used a firearm to defend him/herself, it is probable that some bad actors would think twice about committing such savage acts.
> 
> Hopefully this Texas law will be a deterrent to bad actors. I have read that crime in Texas greatly increased after an influx of young people from a certain state that had suffered a terrible hurricane.



Just the idea that Americans in a state have the legal ability to carry a firearm concerns them license or not.  A lot of these attacks happen in commie states like NY or OR where it's difficult to get a license to carry, or they don't have laws that protect the victim if he or she uses deadly force.  

After Donald Trump was elected President, our city hosted the convention.  Word was out there that it would be a blood bath.  Commies from all across the country were coming here to make it the most dreadful and dangerous event in history.   

They built temporary outside jails for the mob of troublemakers so the patty wagon could go back and forth hauling them to our regular jails.  I think we had four arrests, and two of them had nothing to do with the convention. 

Here we are allowed to use deadly force with laws to protect us while doing so.  We got rid of our holster law for our cars so you can legally drive with a loaded gun on the passenger seat.  Our Castle Doctrine extends to our vehicle while we occupy it if you are a CCW holder.  That means trying to break into my car is no different than trying to break into my house.  Once you do it, I have every legal right to shoot you dead.  

The troublemakers that were supposed to show up here never came around.  They are from states where the law is on their side more than the potential victim.  That's why you don't see people being pulled out of their cars in my state during a protest or riot.  Trying to do so may very well be the end of your life.  










						John Stossel Denied Carry Permit in NYC
					

After a mountain of paperwork, a $430 fee and waiting for more than 8 months, he was told he didn't demonstrate a need.




					www.range365.com


----------



## 2aguy

Donald H said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald H said:
> 
> 
> 
> Likely not going to make any difference in Texas. Bad people who shoot their fellow Americans are 'good' people with guns until they start shooting people. Every gun owner is a potential killer.
> 
> Maybe one way to screen out the good people wanting to own guns from the 'bad' would be to ask them one simple question before allowing them to start building an arsenal.
> 
> *Do you intend to shoot at human silouette targets?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What good would that do?  You do know that people use guns to defend themselves against other people,  don't you?
> 
> Yes, there are bad people with guns which is why good people need guns to defend themselves against those armed bad people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People who use their guns to pretend to defend themselves against other gun owners are bad people.
> They're people who depend on their gun to make them equal to physically superior people. This it the reason why most black men don't rely on guns to keep themselves safe.
> 
> Maybe they should start carrying guns too? Should a Canadian care?
> More pain and suffering and death is probably the only way to learning for Americans. The rest of the modern world celebrates life while Americans are all wrapped up in their guns that are a celebration of death.
Click to expand...



Are you mentally ill?  Or do you just start drinking really early in the morning?


----------



## Donald H

Blues Man said:


> So then you must believe every man is a potential rapist.


Yes, potentially every man is if he has the necessary equipment.
But also keep in mind that rape is an act of violence against a woman. America's rape incidence marches in step with it's gun violence. 
And all of America's violence marches in step with it's military violence in foreign countries. Shooting at human silouette targets is demonstrating a lust for violence and murder.

Can there be any other explanation?


----------



## 2aguy

Donald H said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> So then you must believe every man is a potential rapist.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, potentially every man is if he has the necessary equipment.
> But also keep in mind that rape is an act of violence against a woman. America's rape incidence marches in step with it's gun violence.
> And all of America's violence marches in step with it's military violence in foreign countries. Shooting at human silouette targets is demonstrating a lust for violence and murder.
> 
> Can there be any other explanation?
Click to expand...



Does your nurse know that you snuck out of your room again?   She is going to be pretty annoyed with you, you better go back....


----------



## Donald H

2aguy said:


> *Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."*


No and clearly wrong. The average murderer is a one-time murderer and he/she regrets his crime. 

Tomorrow's murderer will be today's gun owner.
And when the NRA succeeds in abolishing all regulations or limits on ownership of guns, then there will be no doubt that tomorrow's murderer will be a completely *legal* gun owner.

Can you suggest a new law that can prevent a bad guy from owning a gun? How about background checks?


----------



## 2aguy

Donald H said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."*
> 
> 
> 
> No and clearly wrong. The average murderer is a one-time murderer and he/she regrets his crime.
> 
> Tomorrow's murderer will be today's gun owner.
> And when the NRA succeeds in abolishing all regulations or limits on ownership of guns, then there will be no doubt that tomorrow's murderer will be a completely *legal* gun owner.
> 
> Can you suggest a new law that can prevent a bad guy from owning a gun? How about background checks?
Click to expand...



Your nurse is still looking for you....

Background checks don't do anything.


----------



## marvin martian

candycorn said:


> Stupid is as Texas does.
> 
> Another idiotic move by a state full of paranoid losers.



And yet STILL the places where people shoot each other a lot are ALWAYS run by folks like you.

LOL


----------



## Blues Man

Donald H said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> So then you must believe every man is a potential rapist.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, potentially every man is if he has the necessary equipment.
> But also keep in mind that rape is an act of violence against a woman. America's rape incidence marches in step with it's gun violence.
> And all of America's violence marches in step with it's military violence in foreign countries. Shooting at human silouette targets is demonstrating a lust for violence and murder.
> 
> Can there be any other explanation?
Click to expand...

Ok so now you have to show how rape and gun crimes are related.

And it doesn't matter what type of target you shoot at.

I practice martial arts on a human torso dummy and I have yet to perform a palm strike to a person's nose.


----------



## Donald H

In consideration of 2nd. amendment rights of all Americans, it should be established that anybody, regardless of their background, can purchase a gun of his choice on demand. Any socalled background check would be an abuse of an American citizen's rights.

Is there any reason why gun stands similar to hot dog stands shouldn't be set up on city street corners? 

Americans have just as much freedom and rights to buy a gun as they have a right to buy a hot dog!


----------



## Donald H

Blues Man said:


> Ok so now you have to show how rape and gun crimes are related.
> 
> And it doesn't matter what type of target you shoot at.
> 
> I practice martial arts on a human torso dummy and I have yet to perform a palm strike to a person's nose.



Yes, and I"m pretending to be Bruce Lee too.
So we both have the potential.

Can you think of a gun law that can prevent today'd legal gun owner from becoming tomorrow's gun murderer? Background check? 
All Americans who desire to purchase a gun have a 2nd. amendment right to do so.


----------



## Donald H

2aguy said:


> Your nurse is still looking for you....
> 
> Background checks don't do anything.



As a Canadian I can agree. Then you have your desired situation in which there are no restrictions on any person desiring to buy a gun. Both good guys and bad guys won't be limited from buying any guns they choose. 
Can you think of a way to limit guns in the hands of bad guys? 
Or could you suggest some way to determine if the guy wanting to buy a Saturday night special is a bad guy? 
He would have to be a good guy wouldn't he, unless there is some way to determine he was a bad guy?

All gun buyers need to be considered to be good guys today, subject to change tomorrow.


----------



## Blues Man

Donald H said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok so now you have to show how rape and gun crimes are related.
> 
> And it doesn't matter what type of target you shoot at.
> 
> I practice martial arts on a human torso dummy and I have yet to perform a palm strike to a person's nose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and I"m pretending to be Bruce Lee too.
> So we both have the potential.
> 
> Can you think of a gun law that can prevent today'd legal gun owner from becoming tomorrow's gun murderer? Background check?
> All Americans who desire to purchase a gun have a 2nd. amendment right to do so.
Click to expand...


Can you think of a law that will prevent the next person from killing a person with a baseball bat?

People kill people.

People have always killed people

People will always kill people.

These are natural laws as reliable as gravity


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Donald H said:


> Can you think of a way to limit guns in the hands of bad guys?



Yes, it's called a deterrent. If you are a convicted felon and caught with a gun, 10 years minimum prison sentence.  If you commit any kind of crime with a gun, 20 years minimum sentence.  Kill somebody with a gun in the commission of a crime, automatic death penalty. 

You're not going to strip the bad guys of their guns by taking guns away from the good guys.


----------



## Donald H

So gunners, we have established that nobody should be refused buying as many guns as they choose to buy and with no limits on the type of gun. It's clearly their 2nd. amendment right!

Any American, good guy or bad guy can be disqualified from buying a gun from a corner gun stand. There must be no laws to prohibit the sellers of guns or the buyers of guns, as there are no laws prohibiting a murderer from buying a hot dog.
And there must not be any sort of background check to prevent any American from buying any sort of gun.


----------



## Blues Man

Donald H said:


> So gunners, we have established that nobody should be refused buying as many guns as they choose to buy and with no limits on the type of gun. It's clearly their 2nd. amendment right!
> 
> Any American, good guy or bad guy can be disqualified from buying a gun from a corner gun stand. There must be no laws to prohibit the sellers of guns or the buyers of guns, as there are no laws prohibiting a murderer from buying a hot dog.
> And there must not be any sort of background check to prevent any American from buying any sort of gun.



I have no problem with BG checks.

I have no problem denying some people the right to own guns.

You seem to want some sort of fortune teller to predict the behaviors of people in the future.


----------



## Donald H

Blues Man said:


> Can you think of a law that will prevent the next person from killing a person with a baseball bat?


NO! Criminals and law abiding citizens alike have a 2nd. amendment right to own any guns they choose to own, just as surely and unconditionally as they have the right to own a baseball bat.

There must be no laws that limit the sale or the purchase of any guns to any person. And there will be no socalled 'background checks' that could be used to disqualify any person from buying a truckload of saturday night specials.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Donald H said:


> Yes, potentially every man is if he has the necessary equipment.
> But also keep in mind that rape is an act of violence against a woman. America's rape incidence marches in step with it's gun violence.



In the 90's there was a push for more states to adopt CCW programs and laws to protect victims using deadly force.  What were the results?

USMB Fd up this site.  The blue line is the decline in US rapes.


----------



## Donald H

Blues Man said:


> I have no problem with BG checks.


[/QUOTE]

Then you are not in agreement with your NRA and others who consider that there are no restrictions possible that can limit the purchase of guns.


Blues Man said:


> I have no problem denying some people the right to own guns.


[/QUOTE]

Then what do you propose as a law to prevent some people from exercizing their 2nd. amendment right to buy some guns?


----------



## Donald H

Ray From Cleveland said:


> In the 90's there was a push for more states to adopt CCW programs and laws to protect victims using deadly force.  What were the results?
> 
> USMB Fd up this site.  The blue line is the decline in US rapes.



We've changed the conversation to guns Ray. The question of 'potential' was already easily established, be it becoming a rapist or a gun murderer. The issue was only in the misunderstanding of what 'potential' means.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Donald H said:


> We've changed the conversation to guns Ray. The question of 'potential' was already easily established, be it becoming a rapist or a gun murderer. The issue was only in the misunderstanding of what 'potential' means.



The point is that in this country, we have the right to use deadly force to protect ourselves and got results.


----------



## marvin martian

Donald H said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you think of a law that will prevent the next person from killing a person with a baseball bat?
> 
> 
> 
> NO! Criminals and law abiding citizens alike have a 2nd. amendment right to own any guns they choose to own, just as surely and unconditionally as they have the right to own a baseball bat.
> 
> There must be no laws that limit the sale or the purchase of any guns to any person. And there will be no socalled 'background checks' that could be used to disqualify any person from buying a truckload of saturday night specials.
Click to expand...


You sound exactly like the frustrated, oppressed Canadian you are.  How does it feel to have another country's monarch on your currency?  LOL!


----------



## 2aguy

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Donald H said:
> 
> 
> 
> We've changed the conversation to guns Ray. The question of 'potential' was already easily established, be it becoming a rapist or a gun murderer. The issue was only in the misunderstanding of what 'potential' means.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point is that in this country, we have the right to use deadly force to protect ourselves and got results.
Click to expand...



Yep......and gun ownership did not increase the gun crime or gun murder rate...so that myth is just BS the lefties use to scare uninformed people...

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

https://crimeresearch.org/2020/10/n...n-issuing-permits-because-of-the-coronavirus/


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

*Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.*


----------



## marvin martian

2aguy said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald H said:
> 
> 
> 
> We've changed the conversation to guns Ray. The question of 'potential' was already easily established, be it becoming a rapist or a gun murderer. The issue was only in the misunderstanding of what 'potential' means.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point is that in this country, we have the right to use deadly force to protect ourselves and got results.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yep......and gun ownership did not increase the gun crime or gun murder rate...so that myth is just BS the lefties use to scare uninformed people...
> 
> Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...
> 
> New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center
> 
> 
> -- gun murder down 49%
> 
> --gun crime down 75%
> 
> --violent crime down 72%
> 
> Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware
> 
> *Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.*
Click to expand...


So-called "gun violence" is really only a problem in places run by Democrats, and the guns aren't the problem.


----------



## Donald H

marvin martian said:


> So-called "gun violence" is really only a problem in places run by Democrats, and the guns aren't the problem.


Of course the guns aren't the problem Marvin Down's syndrome. Americans are the problem. And now due to your confused state of mind you have established that about 200+- million of them are guilty.

New rule: There shall be no laws that limit an American citizens right to buy and sell any and all guns he chooses.
And there are no phony background checks to be applied that could interfere with that right!

People like Ted Bundy are not to be disqualified from buying up a truckload of guns, based on what they 'might' do with them. They all have a 2nd. amendment right to do anything they wish to do until they pull the trigger. 

Only then, as was the case with Chauvin, can there be a debate on whether or not he will lose his right to kill with his guns.


----------



## Mustang

Biff_Poindexter said:


> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- *Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing *-- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....


"Texans can have trust in their fellow citizens that they will do the right thing"

Really? Have you ever been on the receiving end of a road rage incident? I have. It was back in 1999 when someone chased me down the Interstate at around 3:30 AM when I was on my way to work. That's why I ended up getting my windows tinted.

My guess is that the police are not going to like this one bit because it increases the likelihood that there's going to be a gun in any car they pull over for a traffic violation.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Mustang said:


> "Texans can have trust in their fellow citizens that they will do the right thing"
> 
> Really? Have you ever been on the receiving end of a road rage incident? I have. It was back in 1999 when someone chased me down the Interstate at around 3:30 AM when I was on my way to work. That's why I ended up getting my windows tinted.
> 
> My guess is that the police are not going to like this one bit because it increases the likelihood that there's going to be a gun in any car they pull over for a traffic violation.



When we first passed our CCW law we had the same problem with police.  As time went on, police realized and were trained that armed law abiding citizens was actually a benefit to them. 

I'm all for armed citizens which is obvious with my avatar, but I'm not crazy about everybody being armed without training or testing that they can handle a situation where deadly force is needed.


----------



## Donald H

Mustang said:


> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- *Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing *-- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> "Texans can have trust in their fellow citizens that they will do the right thing"
> 
> Really? Have you ever been on the receiving end of a road rage incident? I have. It was back in 1999 when someone chased me down the Interstate at around 3:30 AM when I was on my way to work. That's why I ended up getting my windows tinted.
> 
> My guess is that the police are not going to like this one bit because it increases the likelihood that there's going to be a gun in any car they pull over for a traffic violation.
Click to expand...

Freedom in America must come with the risk of being shot dead at any moment by a police officer. 

As will be soon made clear when Chauvin has had a new trial to find him not guilty of any crime.

That will result in police officers having the complete and unconditional right to kill when even the smallest of crimes is committed by a bad guy. Human life in America must always be trumped by the right of the police to keep the peace.

We Canadians may choose differently, but it's none of our business and not our concern. We are limited to observing America's progress and remarking as permitted by this forum and other soap boxes.


----------



## Donald H

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I'm all for armed citizens which is obvious with my avatar, but I'm not crazy about everybody being armed without training or testing that they can handle a situation where deadly force is needed.



Yet another restriction being promoted by you against your 2nd. amendment rights. You're definitely halfway down the slippery slope of outlawing lawabiding citizens to purchase and own guns. 

And so who will be the authority to do the testing you are suggesting? 

You really blew it that time Ray! 

Can you back off and at least mandate the testing after the citizen has become a gun owner?


----------



## Mustang

Donald H said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- *Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing *-- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> "Texans can have trust in their fellow citizens that they will do the right thing"
> 
> Really? Have you ever been on the receiving end of a road rage incident? I have. It was back in 1999 when someone chased me down the Interstate at around 3:30 AM when I was on my way to work. That's why I ended up getting my windows tinted.
> 
> My guess is that the police are not going to like this one bit because it increases the likelihood that there's going to be a gun in any car they pull over for a traffic violation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Freedom in America must come with the risk of being shot dead at any moment by a police officer.
> 
> As will be soon made clear when Chauvin has had a new trial to find him not guilty of any crime.
> 
> That will result in police officers having the complete and unconditional right to kill when even the smallest of crimes is committed by a bad guy. Human life in America must always be trumped by the right of the police to keep the peace.
> 
> We Canadians may choose differently, but it's none of our business and not our concern. We are limited to observing America's progress and remarking as permitted by this forum and other soap boxes.
Click to expand...

Apparently, freedom in America must also come with the risk of being shot dead at any moment by a total stranger while grocery shopping or simply driving down the street.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Donald H said:


> Yet another restriction being promoted by you against your 2nd. amendment rights. You're definitely halfway down the slippery slope of outlawing lawabiding citizens to purchase and own guns.
> 
> And so who will be the authority to do the testing you are suggesting?
> 
> You really blew it that time Ray!
> 
> Can you back off and at least mandate the testing after the citizen has become a gun owner?



My comment had nothing to do with purchasing or owning guns.  My comment was directed at people carrying guns in the public.  

If a person buys a firearm and doesn't know much about guns, the only time he or she will use it is if an intruder is breaking into their home.  They can only hurt themselves in the worst scenario.  However once you are out in public with a firearm, you can hurt or kill other innocent people by accident.  

When you are trained to carry a firearm in public to get your license, you have to have 10 hours of class time in our state, pass a written test, and pass a range test to make sure you can handle the weapon you own.  So I wouldn't be happy with people who know nothing about our laws or how to use their gun in public where I'm at if they decide to use it.  

If I'm in a convenience store that's getting robbed without my firearm, and another citizen pulls out his or hers to stop the robbery or perhaps save my life, I'm confident they can handle that weapon within the constraints of our laws.  If we didn't have CCW's in my state, I'd be scared to death of a citizen using their gun anywhere around me.


----------



## Blues Man

Donald H said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you think of a law that will prevent the next person from killing a person with a baseball bat?
> 
> 
> 
> NO! Criminals and law abiding citizens alike have a 2nd. amendment right to own any guns they choose to own, just as surely and unconditionally as they have the right to own a baseball bat.
> 
> There must be no laws that limit the sale or the purchase of any guns to any person. And there will be no socalled 'background checks' that could be used to disqualify any person from buying a truckload of saturday night specials.
Click to expand...

I noticed you didn't quote everything I said in that post

so here it is

I have no problem with BG checks.

I have no problem denying some people the right to own guns.


----------



## freyasman

candycorn said:


> freyasman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freyasman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid is as Texas does.
> 
> Another idiotic move by a state full of paranoid losers.
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom really offends you doesn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That says a lot about what kind of person you are.
> Stay the fuck away from me, okay?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Happily.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Further.....
> 
> 
> Keep going.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Less of you and more of anyone else is a plus.
Click to expand...

Sure lady, whatever...... lol.

Why don't you do something useful and go make me a sandwich?


----------



## marvin martian

Donald H said:


> New rule: There shall be no laws that limit an American citizens right to buy and sell any and all guns he chooses.
> And there are no phony background checks to be applied that could interfere with that right!



That's the current rule, dipshit.  It's only fascists like you that keep trying to infringe on it.


----------



## freyasman

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you trying to "RESTRICT" Americans from exercising their 2A rights??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What restriction?  Buy all the guns you want, I don't care.  However I think there is a percentage of our people too irresponsible or too stupid to be walking around with a gun in public.  Going through the trouble and cost of getting a license filters out most of those people in my opinion.
> 
> Take a young wanna be thug for instance.  He was never in trouble as an adult before.  Is he going to get a license to carry a gun?  Hell no.  Our state like many others requires applicants to submit electronic fingerprints and have an extensive background check.  So if he does start carrying a gun without a license and gets busted, he will end up in jail or prison stopping a crime before it happens.
> 
> Now that I'm an older guy, I think back to some of the completely stupid things I did when I was younger. I say to myself "WTF was I thinking of??"  I can't imagine what I might have done myself if I was allowed to carry a gun around.
> 
> If our state gets rid of CCWs, then it should only apply for people 30 years old and older.
Click to expand...

If they can't be trusted to walk around armed, then they can't be trusted to walk around loose, period.

So, how is that supposed to work?





(Hint; it _doesn't_ work....... so just leave it be.)


----------



## freyasman

Ray From Cleveland said:


> freyasman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.
> 
> I never ceded the authority to the government to tell me when I could and could not, exercise my rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you were voting at the age of 15?
Click to expand...

Well, I had my own bar tab around that time. (Might have been 16 or so, but pretty close.)

And I was 15 the first time some guys tried to murder me.

And I was married and a father at 19.




So how is any of that relevant?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

freyasman said:


> If they can't be trusted to walk around armed, then they can't be trusted to walk around loose, period.
> 
> So, how is that supposed to work?



They have the freedom as an American to walk around loose unless they commit a crime or are institutionalized due to mental problems.  If they want to carry out in the public, then they should have to take a class and get a license.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

NoNukes said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald H said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> GO TEXAS!
> 
> 
> 
> The proof of this being a wise move for Texas will start to be proven no later than Friday night!
> 
> Then on Saturday morning Texans will wake up hearing the news of how the night was kept so quiet and peaceful by 'good' gun owners in the bars and taverns.
> Will the libruls then learn to stfu?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Alcohol and handguns are such a good combination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Carrying a firearm while intoxicated is a crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why allow them in bars?
Click to expand...


  They dont.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

freyasman said:


> Well, I had my own bar tab around that time. (Might have been 16 or so, but pretty close.)
> 
> And I was 15 the first time some guys tried to murder me.
> 
> And I was married and a father at 19.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So how is any of that relevant?



It isn't so I have no idea why you brought it up.


----------



## freyasman

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> If he is a "thug" -- wouldn't he be carrying a gun anyway??
> 
> Gun laws don't work.....stop being a commie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes he would, but not legally.  If he gets caught, off to prison with him.
Click to expand...

Except in the jurisdictions where this sort of thing almost always happens, they _don't_ get sent to prison, and are usually out on bail (or no bail) in a very short time.

So why are you even trying to play this rigged game?
Flip the table and shoot the guy dealing from the bottom of the deck, already.


----------



## freyasman

2aguy said:


> Donald H said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> So then you must believe every man is a potential rapist.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, potentially every man is if he has the necessary equipment.
> But also keep in mind that rape is an act of violence against a woman. America's rape incidence marches in step with it's gun violence.
> And all of America's violence marches in step with it's military violence in foreign countries. Shooting at human silouette targets is demonstrating a lust for violence and murder.
> 
> Can there be any other explanation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Does your nurse know that you snuck out of your room again?   She is going to be pretty annoyed with you, you better go back....
Click to expand...

She probably locked the door so he can't get back in the building, lol.


----------



## freyasman

Mustang said:


> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- *Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing *-- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> "Texans can have trust in their fellow citizens that they will do the right thing"
> 
> Really? Have you ever been on the receiving end of a road rage incident? I have. It was back in 1999 when someone chased me down the Interstate at around 3:30 AM when I was on my way to work. That's why I ended up getting my windows tinted.
> 
> My guess is that the police are not going to like this one bit because it increases the likelihood that there's going to be a gun in any car they pull over for a traffic violation.
Click to expand...

This is Texas; you can safely assume _every_ car has a firearm in it.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

freyasman said:


> Except in the jurisdictions where this sort of thing almost always happens, they _don't_ get sent to prison, and are usually out on bail (or no bail) in a very short time.
> 
> So why are you even trying to play this rigged game?
> Flip the table and shoot the guy dealing from the bottom of the deck, already.



Getting bailed out only allows a person time out of jail until their court hearing.  Then they get sent to prison if found guilty.


----------



## freyasman

Mustang said:


> Donald H said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- *Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing *-- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> "Texans can have trust in their fellow citizens that they will do the right thing"
> 
> Really? Have you ever been on the receiving end of a road rage incident? I have. It was back in 1999 when someone chased me down the Interstate at around 3:30 AM when I was on my way to work. That's why I ended up getting my windows tinted.
> 
> My guess is that the police are not going to like this one bit because it increases the likelihood that there's going to be a gun in any car they pull over for a traffic violation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Freedom in America must come with the risk of being shot dead at any moment by a police officer.
> 
> As will be soon made clear when Chauvin has had a new trial to find him not guilty of any crime.
> 
> That will result in police officers having the complete and unconditional right to kill when even the smallest of crimes is committed by a bad guy. Human life in America must always be trumped by the right of the police to keep the peace.
> 
> We Canadians may choose differently, but it's none of our business and not our concern. We are limited to observing America's progress and remarking as permitted by this forum and other soap boxes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Apparently, freedom in America must also come with the risk of being shot dead at any moment by a total stranger while grocery shopping or simply driving down the street.
Click to expand...

Freedom isn't safe, and it never will be. Grow up and deal.

You could always try going to prison...... it's not very safe there either, but you probably won't get _shot.


 _


----------



## freyasman

Ray From Cleveland said:


> freyasman said:
> 
> 
> 
> If they can't be trusted to walk around armed, then they can't be trusted to walk around loose, period.
> 
> So, how is that supposed to work?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have the freedom as an American to walk around loose unless they commit a crime or are institutionalized due to mental problems.  If they want to carry out in the public, then they should have to take a class and get a license.
Click to expand...

I don't agree.


----------



## freyasman

Ray From Cleveland said:


> freyasman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I had my own bar tab around that time. (Might have been 16 or so, but pretty close.)
> 
> And I was 15 the first time some guys tried to murder me.
> 
> And I was married and a father at 19.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So how is any of that relevant?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't so I have no idea why you brought it up.
Click to expand...

Ray, *you* are the one who brought up age, not me....... so wtf?


----------



## 2aguy

Mustang said:


> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- *Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing *-- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> "Texans can have trust in their fellow citizens that they will do the right thing"
> 
> Really? Have you ever been on the receiving end of a road rage incident? I have. It was back in 1999 when someone chased me down the Interstate at around 3:30 AM when I was on my way to work. That's why I ended up getting my windows tinted.
> 
> My guess is that the police are not going to like this one bit because it increases the likelihood that there's going to be a gun in any car they pull over for a traffic violation.
Click to expand...



Sorry...actual police support concealed carry...

https://crimeresearch.org/2018/05/n...ncealed-handgun-reciprocity-and-other-issues/


National Association of Chiefs of Police Annual Surveys on Concealed Handgun Reciprocity and other issues - Crime Prevention Research Center

Concealed carry reciprocity: Support

29th annual Survey..... 88.62%
28th.............................86.4%
27th.............................63.3%

Can armed citizens help lower violent crime activity: Support

29th......75.77%
28th......76%
27th.......76.4%


----------



## freyasman

Ray From Cleveland said:


> freyasman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except in the jurisdictions where this sort of thing almost always happens, they _don't_ get sent to prison, and are usually out on bail (or no bail) in a very short time.
> 
> So why are you even trying to play this rigged game?
> Flip the table and shoot the guy dealing from the bottom of the deck, already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Getting bailed out only allows a person time out of jail until their court hearing.  Then they get sent to prison if found guilty.
Click to expand...

That's how it's _supposed_ to work; reality is, they are out and doing dirt, usually until they get busted for another crime, or just killed.


----------



## 2aguy

Mustang said:


> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- *Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing *-- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> "Texans can have trust in their fellow citizens that they will do the right thing"
> 
> Really? Have you ever been on the receiving end of a road rage incident? I have. It was back in 1999 when someone chased me down the Interstate at around 3:30 AM when I was on my way to work. That's why I ended up getting my windows tinted.
> 
> My guess is that the police are not going to like this one bit because it increases the likelihood that there's going to be a gun in any car they pull over for a traffic violation.
Click to expand...



The actual police?

*More than 91 percent of respondents support the concealed carry of firearms by civilians who have not been convicted of a felony and/or not been deemed psychologically/medically incapable.*

*A full 86 percent feel that casualties would have been reduced or avoided in recent tragedies like Newtown and Aurora if a legally-armed citizen was present (casualties reduced: 80 percent; avoided altogether: 60 percent).*









						Police Gun Control Survey: Are legally-armed citizens the best solution to gun violence?
					

When it comes to reducing gun violence in America, nobody else in the country has anything close to the experience-based perspective from which cops can speak




					www.police1.com


----------



## Mustang

freyasman said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- *Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing *-- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> "Texans can have trust in their fellow citizens that they will do the right thing"
> 
> Really? Have you ever been on the receiving end of a road rage incident? I have. It was back in 1999 when someone chased me down the Interstate at around 3:30 AM when I was on my way to work. That's why I ended up getting my windows tinted.
> 
> My guess is that the police are not going to like this one bit because it increases the likelihood that there's going to be a gun in any car they pull over for a traffic violation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is Texas; you can safely assume _every_ car has a firearm in it.
Click to expand...


Since there are currently only 1.6 million permits that would allow a citizen to carry a weapon, the rest would be illegal until this legislation is signed into law. But I don't have a problem believing that it's smart to assume that people are carrying handguns in their cars whether they're doing so legally or otherwise.


----------



## 2aguy

Mustang said:


> Donald H said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- *Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing *-- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> "Texans can have trust in their fellow citizens that they will do the right thing"
> 
> Really? Have you ever been on the receiving end of a road rage incident? I have. It was back in 1999 when someone chased me down the Interstate at around 3:30 AM when I was on my way to work. That's why I ended up getting my windows tinted.
> 
> My guess is that the police are not going to like this one bit because it increases the likelihood that there's going to be a gun in any car they pull over for a traffic violation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Freedom in America must come with the risk of being shot dead at any moment by a police officer.
> 
> As will be soon made clear when Chauvin has had a new trial to find him not guilty of any crime.
> 
> That will result in police officers having the complete and unconditional right to kill when even the smallest of crimes is committed by a bad guy. Human life in America must always be trumped by the right of the police to keep the peace.
> 
> We Canadians may choose differently, but it's none of our business and not our concern. We are limited to observing America's progress and remarking as permitted by this forum and other soap boxes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Apparently, freedom in America must also come with the risk of being shot dead at any moment by a total stranger while grocery shopping or simply driving down the street.
Click to expand...



And that is a myth, and a lie.....almost all of our gun crime is concentrated in tiny areas in democrat party controlled cities.....and over 70-80% of our gun murder victims are criminals murdered by other criminals, and of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are friends and family of the criminals hit by mistake..

The takeaway?  Stay out of democrat party controlled cities, and don't have criminals as friends and family and our country is as safe or safer than any European country.


----------



## 2aguy

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Donald H said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yet another restriction being promoted by you against your 2nd. amendment rights. You're definitely halfway down the slippery slope of outlawing lawabiding citizens to purchase and own guns.
> 
> And so who will be the authority to do the testing you are suggesting?
> 
> You really blew it that time Ray!
> 
> Can you back off and at least mandate the testing after the citizen has become a gun owner?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My comment had nothing to do with purchasing or owning guns.  My comment was directed at people carrying guns in the public.
> 
> If a person buys a firearm and doesn't know much about guns, the only time he or she will use it is if an intruder is breaking into their home.  They can only hurt themselves in the worst scenario.  However once you are out in public with a firearm, you can hurt or kill other innocent people by accident.
> 
> When you are trained to carry a firearm in public to get your license, you have to have 10 hours of class time in our state, pass a written test, and pass a range test to make sure you can handle the weapon you own.  So I wouldn't be happy with people who know nothing about our laws or how to use their gun in public where I'm at if they decide to use it.
> 
> If I'm in a convenience store that's getting robbed without my firearm, and another citizen pulls out his or hers to stop the robbery or perhaps save my life, I'm confident they can handle that weapon within the constraints of our laws.  If we didn't have CCW's in my state, I'd be scared to death of a citizen using their gun anywhere around me.
Click to expand...



And when the democrats make the requirements so onerous that only politicians and the rich can afford the time and money to get the CCW?


----------



## Mustang

2aguy said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- *Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing *-- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> "Texans can have trust in their fellow citizens that they will do the right thing"
> 
> Really? Have you ever been on the receiving end of a road rage incident? I have. It was back in 1999 when someone chased me down the Interstate at around 3:30 AM when I was on my way to work. That's why I ended up getting my windows tinted.
> 
> My guess is that the police are not going to like this one bit because it increases the likelihood that there's going to be a gun in any car they pull over for a traffic violation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry...actual police support concealed carry...
> 
> National Association of Chiefs of Police Annual Surveys on Concealed Handgun Reciprocity and other issues - Crime Prevention Research Center
> 
> 
> National Association of Chiefs of Police Annual Surveys on Concealed Handgun Reciprocity and other issues - Crime Prevention Research Center
> 
> Concealed carry reciprocity: Support
> 
> 29th annual Survey..... 88.62%
> 28th.............................86.4%
> 27th.............................63.3%
> 
> Can armed citizens help lower violent crime activity: Support
> 
> 29th......75.77%
> 28th......76%
> 27th.......76.4%
Click to expand...

I seriously doubt that you will find that the average patrolman will welcome finding himself in a situation where he pulls over a complete stranger for a traffic violation, and approaches the driver's side of a car to find that the person is carrying a loaded weapon without a permit and the training that comes with it.


----------



## 2aguy

Mustang said:


> freyasman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- *Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing *-- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> "Texans can have trust in their fellow citizens that they will do the right thing"
> 
> Really? Have you ever been on the receiving end of a road rage incident? I have. It was back in 1999 when someone chased me down the Interstate at around 3:30 AM when I was on my way to work. That's why I ended up getting my windows tinted.
> 
> My guess is that the police are not going to like this one bit because it increases the likelihood that there's going to be a gun in any car they pull over for a traffic violation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is Texas; you can safely assume _every_ car has a firearm in it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since there are currently only 1.6 million permits that would allow a citizen to carry a weapon, the rest would be illegal until this legislation is signed into law. But I don't have a problem believing that it's smart to assume that people are carrying handguns in their cars whether they're doing so legally or otherwise.
Click to expand...



Cops always accept the fact that any car or house they approach will have a weapon in it, and that anyone they may approach can be a deadly threat.....so your fears are just not accurate.


----------



## 2aguy

Mustang said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- *Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing *-- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> "Texans can have trust in their fellow citizens that they will do the right thing"
> 
> Really? Have you ever been on the receiving end of a road rage incident? I have. It was back in 1999 when someone chased me down the Interstate at around 3:30 AM when I was on my way to work. That's why I ended up getting my windows tinted.
> 
> My guess is that the police are not going to like this one bit because it increases the likelihood that there's going to be a gun in any car they pull over for a traffic violation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry...actual police support concealed carry...
> 
> National Association of Chiefs of Police Annual Surveys on Concealed Handgun Reciprocity and other issues - Crime Prevention Research Center
> 
> 
> National Association of Chiefs of Police Annual Surveys on Concealed Handgun Reciprocity and other issues - Crime Prevention Research Center
> 
> Concealed carry reciprocity: Support
> 
> 29th annual Survey..... 88.62%
> 28th.............................86.4%
> 27th.............................63.3%
> 
> Can armed citizens help lower violent crime activity: Support
> 
> 29th......75.77%
> 28th......76%
> 27th.......76.4%
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I seriously doubt that you will find that the average patrolman will welcome finding himself in a situation where he pulls over a complete stranger for a traffic violation, and approaches the driver's side of a car to find that the person is carrying a loaded weapon without a permit and the training that comes with it.
Click to expand...



What part of those survey results do you not understand?  I have family, 2 members, and friends, several, who are police officers and they have no problem with concealed carry.  Those surveys of actual police officers also support it......

*More than 91 percent of respondents support the concealed carry of firearms by civilians who have not been convicted of a felony and/or not been deemed psychologically/medically incapable.*

*A full 86 percent feel that casualties would have been reduced or avoided in recent tragedies like Newtown and Aurora if a legally-armed citizen was present (casualties reduced: 80 percent; avoided altogether: 60 percent).*









						Police Gun Control Survey: Are legally-armed citizens the best solution to gun violence?
					

When it comes to reducing gun violence in America, nobody else in the country has anything close to the experience-based perspective from which cops can speak




					www.police1.com


----------



## 2aguy

Mustang said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- *Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing *-- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> "Texans can have trust in their fellow citizens that they will do the right thing"
> 
> Really? Have you ever been on the receiving end of a road rage incident? I have. It was back in 1999 when someone chased me down the Interstate at around 3:30 AM when I was on my way to work. That's why I ended up getting my windows tinted.
> 
> My guess is that the police are not going to like this one bit because it increases the likelihood that there's going to be a gun in any car they pull over for a traffic violation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry...actual police support concealed carry...
> 
> National Association of Chiefs of Police Annual Surveys on Concealed Handgun Reciprocity and other issues - Crime Prevention Research Center
> 
> 
> National Association of Chiefs of Police Annual Surveys on Concealed Handgun Reciprocity and other issues - Crime Prevention Research Center
> 
> Concealed carry reciprocity: Support
> 
> 29th annual Survey..... 88.62%
> 28th.............................86.4%
> 27th.............................63.3%
> 
> Can armed citizens help lower violent crime activity: Support
> 
> 29th......75.77%
> 28th......76%
> 27th.......76.4%
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I seriously doubt that you will find that the average patrolman will welcome finding himself in a situation where he pulls over a complete stranger for a traffic violation, and approaches the driver's side of a car to find that the person is carrying a loaded weapon without a permit and the training that comes with it.
Click to expand...



If the civilian doesn't draw the weapon and point it at the cop, the cop won't be concerned........


----------



## Donald H

There are no effective means of preventing a convicted criminal who is released from prison from buying as many AR-15's as he can buy on his credit card or in cash, or both.

The 2nd. amendment is clear on that and it doesn't look like it's going to be tampered with by any socialists any time soon. 

As for the school children? Screw them! If they're over 10 years old they and their teachers should be openly packing heat during school hours.


----------



## freyasman

Mustang said:


> freyasman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- *Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing *-- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> "Texans can have trust in their fellow citizens that they will do the right thing"
> 
> Really? Have you ever been on the receiving end of a road rage incident? I have. It was back in 1999 when someone chased me down the Interstate at around 3:30 AM when I was on my way to work. That's why I ended up getting my windows tinted.
> 
> My guess is that the police are not going to like this one bit because it increases the likelihood that there's going to be a gun in any car they pull over for a traffic violation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is Texas; you can safely assume _every_ car has a firearm in it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since there are currently only 1.6 million permits that would allow a citizen to carry a weapon, the rest would be illegal until this legislation is signed into law. But I don't have a problem believing that it's smart to assume that people are carrying handguns in their cars whether they're doing so legally or otherwise.
Click to expand...

It's perfectly legal to carry a firearm in a vehicle in Texas.


----------



## Peace

I believe Texas should model it Gun Laws after Illinois and be more like Chicago!

I mean look how safe Chicago, well it is safe if you are White!!!


----------



## freyasman

Mustang said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- *Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing *-- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> "Texans can have trust in their fellow citizens that they will do the right thing"
> 
> Really? Have you ever been on the receiving end of a road rage incident? I have. It was back in 1999 when someone chased me down the Interstate at around 3:30 AM when I was on my way to work. That's why I ended up getting my windows tinted.
> 
> My guess is that the police are not going to like this one bit because it increases the likelihood that there's going to be a gun in any car they pull over for a traffic violation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry...actual police support concealed carry...
> 
> National Association of Chiefs of Police Annual Surveys on Concealed Handgun Reciprocity and other issues - Crime Prevention Research Center
> 
> 
> National Association of Chiefs of Police Annual Surveys on Concealed Handgun Reciprocity and other issues - Crime Prevention Research Center
> 
> Concealed carry reciprocity: Support
> 
> 29th annual Survey..... 88.62%
> 28th.............................86.4%
> 27th.............................63.3%
> 
> Can armed citizens help lower violent crime activity: Support
> 
> 29th......75.77%
> 28th......76%
> 27th.......76.4%
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I seriously doubt that you will find that the average patrolman will welcome finding himself in a situation where he pulls over a complete stranger for a traffic violation, and approaches the driver's side of a car to find that the person is carrying a loaded weapon without a permit and the training that comes with it.
Click to expand...

I don't care what my public servants like or dislike; if it bothers him so much he can go find a real job.


----------



## Mustang

freyasman said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freyasman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- *Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing *-- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> "Texans can have trust in their fellow citizens that they will do the right thing"
> 
> Really? Have you ever been on the receiving end of a road rage incident? I have. It was back in 1999 when someone chased me down the Interstate at around 3:30 AM when I was on my way to work. That's why I ended up getting my windows tinted.
> 
> My guess is that the police are not going to like this one bit because it increases the likelihood that there's going to be a gun in any car they pull over for a traffic violation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is Texas; you can safely assume _every_ car has a firearm in it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since there are currently only 1.6 million permits that would allow a citizen to carry a weapon, the rest would be illegal until this legislation is signed into law. But I don't have a problem believing that it's smart to assume that people are carrying handguns in their cars whether they're doing so legally or otherwise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's perfectly legal to carry a firearm in a vehicle in Texas.
Click to expand...

I know it's legal to carry a long gun.


----------



## Mustang

2aguy said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- *Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing *-- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> "Texans can have trust in their fellow citizens that they will do the right thing"
> 
> Really? Have you ever been on the receiving end of a road rage incident? I have. It was back in 1999 when someone chased me down the Interstate at around 3:30 AM when I was on my way to work. That's why I ended up getting my windows tinted.
> 
> My guess is that the police are not going to like this one bit because it increases the likelihood that there's going to be a gun in any car they pull over for a traffic violation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry...actual police support concealed carry...
> 
> National Association of Chiefs of Police Annual Surveys on Concealed Handgun Reciprocity and other issues - Crime Prevention Research Center
> 
> 
> National Association of Chiefs of Police Annual Surveys on Concealed Handgun Reciprocity and other issues - Crime Prevention Research Center
> 
> Concealed carry reciprocity: Support
> 
> 29th annual Survey..... 88.62%
> 28th.............................86.4%
> 27th.............................63.3%
> 
> Can armed citizens help lower violent crime activity: Support
> 
> 29th......75.77%
> 28th......76%
> 27th.......76.4%
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I seriously doubt that you will find that the average patrolman will welcome finding himself in a situation where he pulls over a complete stranger for a traffic violation, and approaches the driver's side of a car to find that the person is carrying a loaded weapon without a permit and the training that comes with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If the civilian doesn't draw the weapon and point it at the cop, the cop won't be concerned........
Click to expand...

That would likely be true if it's someone he knows personally or someone driving a nice car and wearing a shirt and tie. I wouldn't count on it if it's a total stranger who's driving a beater car and is badly dressed and has a scraggly beard and a bad haircut. I mean, you have heard the saying that desperate people do desperate things, haven't you?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

2aguy said:


> And when the democrats make the requirements so onerous that only politicians and the rich can afford the time and money to get the CCW?



In commie states, they are doing that now.  I posted the John Stossel story about how he spent almost $500 and waited eight months only for them to deny his application for a CCW.


----------



## Mustang

2aguy said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freyasman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- *Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing *-- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> "Texans can have trust in their fellow citizens that they will do the right thing"
> 
> Really? Have you ever been on the receiving end of a road rage incident? I have. It was back in 1999 when someone chased me down the Interstate at around 3:30 AM when I was on my way to work. That's why I ended up getting my windows tinted.
> 
> My guess is that the police are not going to like this one bit because it increases the likelihood that there's going to be a gun in any car they pull over for a traffic violation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is Texas; you can safely assume _every_ car has a firearm in it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since there are currently only 1.6 million permits that would allow a citizen to carry a weapon, the rest would be illegal until this legislation is signed into law. But I don't have a problem believing that it's smart to assume that people are carrying handguns in their cars whether they're doing so legally or otherwise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Cops always accept the fact that any car or house they approach will have a weapon in it, and that anyone they may approach can be a deadly threat.....so your fears are just not accurate.
Click to expand...

It's not my fear. It would be the cop's fear and very likely the fears of his wife at one day becoming a widow.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

freyasman said:


> That's how it's _supposed_ to work; reality is, they are out and doing dirt, usually until they get busted for another crime, or just killed.



That may be, but there is only so much we can do about that.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

freyasman said:


> Ray, *you* are the one who brought up age, not me....... so wtf?



My only point with that is we do regulate rights, just like we've been taking the right to vote away from people who were convicted felons, and don't allow them to own or hold a gun ever again.


----------



## freyasman

Mustang said:


> freyasman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freyasman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- *Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing *-- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> "Texans can have trust in their fellow citizens that they will do the right thing"
> 
> Really? Have you ever been on the receiving end of a road rage incident? I have. It was back in 1999 when someone chased me down the Interstate at around 3:30 AM when I was on my way to work. That's why I ended up getting my windows tinted.
> 
> My guess is that the police are not going to like this one bit because it increases the likelihood that there's going to be a gun in any car they pull over for a traffic violation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is Texas; you can safely assume _every_ car has a firearm in it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since there are currently only 1.6 million permits that would allow a citizen to carry a weapon, the rest would be illegal until this legislation is signed into law. But I don't have a problem believing that it's smart to assume that people are carrying handguns in their cars whether they're doing so legally or otherwise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's perfectly legal to carry a firearm in a vehicle in Texas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know it's legal to carry a long gun.
Click to expand...

Any firearm in your vehicle,  handgun,  long gun,  whatever.


----------



## Mustang

freyasman said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freyasman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freyasman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- *Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing *-- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> "Texans can have trust in their fellow citizens that they will do the right thing"
> 
> Really? Have you ever been on the receiving end of a road rage incident? I have. It was back in 1999 when someone chased me down the Interstate at around 3:30 AM when I was on my way to work. That's why I ended up getting my windows tinted.
> 
> My guess is that the police are not going to like this one bit because it increases the likelihood that there's going to be a gun in any car they pull over for a traffic violation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is Texas; you can safely assume _every_ car has a firearm in it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since there are currently only 1.6 million permits that would allow a citizen to carry a weapon, the rest would be illegal until this legislation is signed into law. But I don't have a problem believing that it's smart to assume that people are carrying handguns in their cars whether they're doing so legally or otherwise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's perfectly legal to carry a firearm in a vehicle in Texas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know it's legal to carry a long gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Any firearm in your vehicle,  handgun,  long gun,  whatever.
Click to expand...

I wasn't aware of that before, but I just confirmed that. It looks like that's been in effect since 2007. That wasn't the case when I was in Texas twice back in the early 1990s, where, by the way, somebody threw a beer bottle onto the windshield of my rented car when I drove under an overpass.


----------



## NoNukes

HereWeGoAgain said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald H said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> GO TEXAS!
> 
> 
> 
> The proof of this being a wise move for Texas will start to be proven no later than Friday night!
> 
> Then on Saturday morning Texans will wake up hearing the news of how the night was kept so quiet and peaceful by 'good' gun owners in the bars and taverns.
> Will the libruls then learn to stfu?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Alcohol and handguns are such a good combination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Carrying a firearm while intoxicated is a crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why allow them in bars?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They dont.
Click to expand...

You obviously have not been following the conversation.


----------



## NoNukes

HereWeGoAgain said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald H said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> GO TEXAS!
> 
> 
> 
> The proof of this being a wise move for Texas will start to be proven no later than Friday night!
> 
> Then on Saturday morning Texans will wake up hearing the news of how the night was kept so quiet and peaceful by 'good' gun owners in the bars and taverns.
> Will the libruls then learn to stfu?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Alcohol and handguns are such a good combination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Carrying a firearm while intoxicated is a crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why allow them in bars?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They dont.
Click to expand...

Have you been following the conversation?


----------



## BlackSand

Donald H said:


> Likely not going to make any difference in Texas. Bad people who shoot their fellow Americans are 'good' people with guns until they start shooting people. Every gun owner is a potential killer.
> 
> Maybe one way to screen out the good people wanting to own guns from the 'bad' would be to ask them one simple question before allowing them to start building an arsenal.
> 
> *Do you intend to shoot at human silouette targets?*


.

Coming from a State that has been 'open carry' all along ... There have been changes over the past few decades.

Twenty years ago, no one gave shit if you walked into a store open carry.
Nowadays, the shit they give is usually in their pants, as they run around with their hair on fire acting like it is the end of the world.

It's hard not to laugh at them, you really didn't decide to open carry to hurt their precious feelings.

.​


----------



## BlackSand

NoNukes said:


> Alcohol and handguns are such a good combination.


.

Why do you think bars have parking lots ... Is drinking and driving a good combination?

.​


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

BlackSand said:


> Coming from a State that has been 'open carry' all along ... There have been changes over the past few decades.
> 
> Twenty years ago, no one gave shit if you walked into a store open carry.
> Nowadays, the shit they give is usually in their pants, as they run around with their hair on fire acting like it is the end of the world.
> 
> It's hard not to laugh at them, you really didn't decide to open carry to hurt their precious feelings.
> 
> .


We've been an open carry state for as long as I could remember, but nobody ever did it and still don't.  One day I'm reading our local news several years ago and they had a story about a guy who open carried in a Wendy's about 20 minutes from my home.  The police stormed the place with guns blazing while this poor guy was just scarfing down his double combo.  He fully complied with their orders and they took him outside. 

Some old lady in the restaurant seen the gun and summoned the police.  He explained to the officer he was from Arizona and stated everybody open carries.  He looked up our laws before coming here and found out we were open carry too, so he didn't think much about it.


----------



## NoNukes

BlackSand said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> Alcohol and handguns are such a good combination.
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Why do you think bars have parking lots ... Is drinking and driving a good combination?
> 
> .​
Click to expand...

You can go to a bar without driving or driving home. Are you that thick?


----------



## BlackSand

NoNukes said:


> You can go to a bar without driving or driving home. Are you that thick?


.

You can carry a firearm without shooting everyone you see, nit-wit ...

.​


----------



## NoNukes

BlackSand said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can go to a bar without driving or driving home. Are you that thick?
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> You can carry a firearm without shooting everyone you see, nit-wit ...
> 
> .​
Click to expand...

When you get drunk your judgement changes, idiot.


----------



## BlackSand

NoNukes said:


> When you get drunk your judgement changes, idiot.


.

I didn't suggest otherwise ... What are you trying to argue with, dumbass.

.​


----------



## Batcat

Donald H said:


> Likely not going to make any difference in Texas. Bad people who shoot their fellow Americans are 'good' people with guns until they start shooting people. Every gun owner is a potential killer.
> 
> Maybe one way to screen out the good people wanting to own guns from the 'bad' would be to ask them one simple question before allowing them to start building an arsenal.
> 
> *Do you intend to shoot at human silouette targets?*


I enjoy target shooting and when I do I use bullseye targets and try to achieve the highest score I can. 

Since I legally carry a concealed handgun for self defense I do some shooting practice on silhouette targets.  

I sincerely hope I never have to use a firearm to stop an attack from an individual who intends and has the means to put me in the hospital for an extended stay or six feet under.

It seems you are insinuating that I am a “bad” person since I carry a handgun for self defense and practice self defense shooting on silhouette targets. Are you seriously saying that    using a firearm to defend yourself or your family makes you a bad person? Also be aware that *if attacked my object is to stop the attack not kill the attacker. *


----------



## NoNukes

Batcat said:


> Donald H said:
> 
> 
> 
> Likely not going to make any difference in Texas. Bad people who shoot their fellow Americans are 'good' people with guns until they start shooting people. Every gun owner is a potential killer.
> 
> Maybe one way to screen out the good people wanting to own guns from the 'bad' would be to ask them one simple question before allowing them to start building an arsenal.
> 
> *Do you intend to shoot at human silouette targets?*
> 
> 
> 
> I enjoy target shooting and when I do I use bullseye targets and try to achieve the highest score I can.
> 
> Since I legally carry a concealed handgun for self defense I do some shooting practice on silhouette targets.
> 
> I sincerely hope I never have to use a firearm to stop an attack from an individual who intends and has the means to put me in the hospital for an extended stay or six feet under.
> 
> It seems you are insinuating that I am a “bad” person since I carry a handgun for self defense and practice self defense shooting on silhouette targets. Are you seriously saying that    using a firearm to defend yourself or your family makes you a bad person? Also be aware that *if attacked my object is to stop the attack not kill the attacker. *
Click to expand...

I pity you for going through life so scared.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

NoNukes said:


> I pity you for going through life so scared.



Do you lock the doors on your home when you leave the house empty or go to sleep at night?  Do you lock the doors on your car when you exit your vehicle?  Do you have insurance on your home in case of a theft or the house sustains damage from fires, water leaks, a tree falling on it? 

I pity you for going through life so scared.


----------



## BlackSand

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Do you lock the doors on your home when you leave the house empty or go to sleep at night?  Do you lock the doors on your car when you exit your vehicle?  Do you have insurance on your home in case of a theft or the house sustains damage from fires, water leaks, a tree falling on it?
> 
> I pity you for going through life so scared.


.

That dude lives in a cardboard box behind the dumpster at the Portland Animal Shelter ... He ain't scared of shit.

.​


----------



## NoNukes

Ray From Cleveland said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> I pity you for going through life so scared.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you lock the doors on your home when you leave the house empty or go to sleep at night?  Do you lock the doors on your car when you exit your vehicle?  Do you have insurance on your home in case of a theft or the house sustains damage from fires, water leaks, a tree falling on it?
> 
> I pity you for going through life so scared.
Click to expand...


If you think this is comparable, you are an idiot. Oh, hold on, this is Ray.


----------



## NoNukes

BlackSand said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you lock the doors on your home when you leave the house empty or go to sleep at night?  Do you lock the doors on your car when you exit your vehicle?  Do you have insurance on your home in case of a theft or the house sustains damage from fires, water leaks, a tree falling on it?
> 
> I pity you for going through life so scared.
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> That dude lives in a cardboard box behind the dumpster at the Portland Animal Shelter ... He ain't scared of shit.
> 
> .​
Click to expand...

I live in a safe place where people are not allowed to carry guns. Most of the police do not carry guns.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

NoNukes said:


> If you think this is comparable, you are an idiot. Oh, hold on, this is Ray.



No, it's the exact same thing.  People taking precautions against potential crime or harm.  That's why some folks carry guns, for protection against possible crime or physical harm.  Would we be better off if only the criminals had the guns?  Because there is no possible way to stop that.


----------



## NoNukes

Ray From Cleveland said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you think this is comparable, you are an idiot. Oh, hold on, this is Ray.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's the exact same thing.  People taking precautions against potential crime or harm.  That's why some folks carry guns, for protection against possible crime or physical harm.  Would we be better off if only the criminals had the guns?  Because there is no possible way to stop that.
Click to expand...

I live in a place where most of the police do not even carry guns and it works just fine.


----------



## BlackSand

NoNukes said:


> I live in a safe place where people are not allowed to carry guns. Most of the police do not carry guns.


.

I live in a safe place too ... There are firearms everywhere, and sheriff's deputies shoot clay pigeons in my front yard ...
or use the berm along the fencerow in the side yard to practice on occasions.

You would have a greater chance of hurting yourself with the chainsaw in the shop ...
Or running the Razor into a tree driving too fast.
Of course I might be remiss if I didn't include the fact you could drown yourself diving in the swimming pool ...
There aren't any lifeguards on duty.

If you come over, we probably won't *allow* you to do much more than sit in chair wearing floaties ...  
.​


----------



## 2aguy

NoNukes said:


> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you lock the doors on your home when you leave the house empty or go to sleep at night?  Do you lock the doors on your car when you exit your vehicle?  Do you have insurance on your home in case of a theft or the house sustains damage from fires, water leaks, a tree falling on it?
> 
> I pity you for going through life so scared.
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> That dude lives in a cardboard box behind the dumpster at the Portland Animal Shelter ... He ain't scared of shit.
> 
> .​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I live in a safe place where people are not allowed to carry guns. Most of the police do not carry guns.
Click to expand...


Tell that to Sweden....they didn't think they needed guns...now 3rd world drug gangs are settling their beefs with fully automatic military rifles and grenades....


----------



## 2aguy

NoNukes said:


> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you lock the doors on your home when you leave the house empty or go to sleep at night?  Do you lock the doors on your car when you exit your vehicle?  Do you have insurance on your home in case of a theft or the house sustains damage from fires, water leaks, a tree falling on it?
> 
> I pity you for going through life so scared.
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> That dude lives in a cardboard box behind the dumpster at the Portland Animal Shelter ... He ain't scared of shit.
> 
> .​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I live in a safe place where people are not allowed to carry guns. Most of the police do not carry guns.
Click to expand...



In America, if you don't live in a democrat party controlled city....you are safe too...

*As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas. These charts exclude suicides, for which data are not available on a congressional district basis, so it only breaks down the fraction of gun violence that is accidental or confrontational.*
*--------*
*
A distinct pattern emerged: In Democratic regions of the country, which tend to be cities, people are more likely to be murdered with a gun than they are to shoot themselves to death.

In regions of the country won by Republicans, which tend to be rural areas and small towns, the opposite is true — people are more likely to shoot themselves to death than they are to be murdered with a gun.
----
In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.*

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...prising-way-gun-violence-is-dividing-america/


----------



## Batcat

NoNukes said:


> Batcat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald H said:
> 
> 
> 
> Likely not going to make any difference in Texas. Bad people who shoot their fellow Americans are 'good' people with guns until they start shooting people. Every gun owner is a potential killer.
> 
> Maybe one way to screen out the good people wanting to own guns from the 'bad' would be to ask them one simple question before allowing them to start building an arsenal.
> 
> *Do you intend to shoot at human silouette targets?*
> 
> 
> 
> I enjoy target shooting and when I do I use bullseye targets and try to achieve the highest score I can.
> 
> Since I legally carry a concealed handgun for self defense I do some shooting practice on silhouette targets.
> 
> I sincerely hope I never have to use a firearm to stop an attack from an individual who intends and has the means to put me in the hospital for an extended stay or six feet under.
> 
> It seems you are insinuating that I am a “bad” person since I carry a handgun for self defense and practice self defense shooting on silhouette targets. Are you seriously saying that    using a firearm to defend yourself or your family makes you a bad person? Also be aware that *if attacked my object is to stop the attack not kill the attacker. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I pity you for going through life so scared.
Click to expand...

Why do you think I live in fear?

I just follow the age old advise to be prepared. I also practice situational awareness which simply means not walking around with a cell phone glued to your ear. 

For three decades I lived in one of the more crime ridden areas of Tampa Florida.

 I had a drive-by shooting two houses from where I lived. The gang leader who lived there ended up in prison for murdering his girl friend. Clerks murdered in gas stations and restaurants in walking distance of my house. A girl raped in a hurricane ditch behind my house. I’ve seen cops with guns drawn on my street running after someone.

I personally chased four burglars away from my neighbor’s house which they had just robbed and were outside bagging up their loot. I ran across the street  yelling like Geronimo. All four ran. That likely was one of the dumbest things I have ever done. One guy apparently tried to chamber a round into a .45 pistol he had just grabbed in the robbery. It stovepiped so he dropped the weapon and ran. The cops my wife called pointed that out to me and advised me not to play hero again. My jujitsu instructor agreed with the cops. The guy who owned the house held a party for me with some really good steaks. He felt I had done a good job. 

My daughter actually stopped an intruder who was breaking into our house despite the fact an alarm was sounding. She pointed a .45  caliber revolver at him and he decided wisely to leave. 

Many people advised me to move to a nicer area but since I don‘t leave in fear I ignored them.

Now that I am retired I have finally moved to a smaller and safer town but I still carry a concealed .38 snubnosed revolver in my pocket. Old habits die hard.

Always be prepared. If you are prepared you do not live in fear.


----------



## Donald H

Batcat said:


> Now that I am retired I have finally moved to a smaller and safer town but I still carry a concealed .38 snubnosed revolver in my pocket. Old habits die hard.


You owning the revolver has just increased the likelihood of you or a family member being shot dead, by your own gun or the bad guy's gun.
Old American gungoons die hard.

As a Canadian, I'm prepared to let the bad buy have the money and the big screen t.v. set, and stuff, and keep my life and my wife's life. Otherwise, I don't care a lick what you do with your guns, as long as you don't touch them in places that make them feel uncomfortable.


----------



## BlackSand

Donald H said:


> You owning the revolver has just increased the likelihood of you or a family member being shot dead, by your own gun or the bad guy's gun.
> Old American gungoons die hard.


.

Damn Dexter, it doesn't just increase the likelihood ... Owning a gun is the *only* way he could be shot by his own gun ... Pretending to be smart aren't you?
Next Question ... Nutter.​
.


----------



## Donald H

BlackSand said:


> .
> 
> Damn Dexter, it doesn't just increase the likelihood ... Owning a gun is the *only* way he could be shot by his own gun ...​
> .


Agreed! Maybe we're going to get along with each other after all!


----------



## BlackSand

Donald H said:


> Agreed! Maybe we're going to get along with each other after all!


.

Certainly ... Until you start pushing for more Federal legislation that threatens our Constitutionally Protected Rights ... I don't have a problem with you.

.​


----------



## Batcat

Donald H said:


> Batcat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now that I am retired I have finally moved to a smaller and safer town but I still carry a concealed .38 snubnosed revolver in my pocket. Old habits die hard.
> 
> 
> 
> You owning the revolver has just increased the likelihood of you or a family member being shot dead, by your own gun or the bad guy's gun.
> Old American gungoons die hard.
> 
> As a Canadian, I'm prepared to let the bad buy have the money and the big screen t.v. set, and stuff, and keep my life and my wife's life. Otherwise, I don't care a lick what you do with your guns, as long as you don't touch them in places that make them feel uncomfortable.
Click to expand...

I don’t disagree with that. Obviously if you don’t own a gun the gun you don’t own can’t kill you. 

If my situational awareness fails me and I find I am being robbed on the street but the bad guy looks like the only thing he wants is my wallet, I will give it to him. I can replace everything in the wallet but I can’t replace my life or health. Now if the bad guy appears to want to seriously injure me or kill me than I will do everything I can to prevent that from happening up to and including the use of lethal force. 

The same applies to a robber in my house. 

You stated:

_I don't care a lick what you do with your guns, as long as you don't touch them in places that make them feel uncomfortable._

My firearms do not feel uncomfortable when I touch them.


----------



## EvilCat Breath

Chicom Biden has opened the border.  Texans will need their guns.


----------



## NoNukes

2aguy said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you lock the doors on your home when you leave the house empty or go to sleep at night?  Do you lock the doors on your car when you exit your vehicle?  Do you have insurance on your home in case of a theft or the house sustains damage from fires, water leaks, a tree falling on it?
> 
> I pity you for going through life so scared.
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> That dude lives in a cardboard box behind the dumpster at the Portland Animal Shelter ... He ain't scared of shit.
> 
> .​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I live in a safe place where people are not allowed to carry guns. Most of the police do not carry guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell that to Sweden....they didn't think they needed guns...now 3rd world drug gangs are settling their beefs with fully automatic military rifles and grenades....
Click to expand...


----------



## NoNukes

2aguy said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you lock the doors on your home when you leave the house empty or go to sleep at night?  Do you lock the doors on your car when you exit your vehicle?  Do you have insurance on your home in case of a theft or the house sustains damage from fires, water leaks, a tree falling on it?
> 
> I pity you for going through life so scared.
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> That dude lives in a cardboard box behind the dumpster at the Portland Animal Shelter ... He ain't scared of shit.
> 
> .​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I live in a safe place where people are not allowed to carry guns. Most of the police do not carry guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell that to Sweden....they didn't think they needed guns...now 3rd world drug gangs are settling their beefs with fully automatic military rifles and grenades....
Click to expand...

There will be criminal gangs everywhere.  I have not heard of any extreme criminal activity threatening the country in Sweden.


----------



## NoNukes

2aguy said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you lock the doors on your home when you leave the house empty or go to sleep at night?  Do you lock the doors on your car when you exit your vehicle?  Do you have insurance on your home in case of a theft or the house sustains damage from fires, water leaks, a tree falling on it?
> 
> I pity you for going through life so scared.
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> That dude lives in a cardboard box behind the dumpster at the Portland Animal Shelter ... He ain't scared of shit.
> 
> .​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I live in a safe place where people are not allowed to carry guns. Most of the police do not carry guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In America, if you don't live in a democrat party controlled city....you are safe too...
> 
> *As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas. These charts exclude suicides, for which data are not available on a congressional district basis, so it only breaks down the fraction of gun violence that is accidental or confrontational.*
> *--------*
> 
> *A distinct pattern emerged: In Democratic regions of the country, which tend to be cities, people are more likely to be murdered with a gun than they are to shoot themselves to death.
> 
> In regions of the country won by Republicans, which tend to be rural areas and small towns, the opposite is true — people are more likely to shoot themselves to death than they are to be murdered with a gun.
> ----
> In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.*
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...prising-way-gun-violence-is-dividing-america/
Click to expand...

Then why carry firearms if it is safe. States with open carry laws are no safer.


----------



## 2aguy

NoNukes said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you lock the doors on your home when you leave the house empty or go to sleep at night?  Do you lock the doors on your car when you exit your vehicle?  Do you have insurance on your home in case of a theft or the house sustains damage from fires, water leaks, a tree falling on it?
> 
> I pity you for going through life so scared.
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> That dude lives in a cardboard box behind the dumpster at the Portland Animal Shelter ... He ain't scared of shit.
> 
> .​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I live in a safe place where people are not allowed to carry guns. Most of the police do not carry guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell that to Sweden....they didn't think they needed guns...now 3rd world drug gangs are settling their beefs with fully automatic military rifles and grenades....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There will be criminal gangs everywhere.  I have not heard of any extreme criminal activity threatening the country in Sweden.
Click to expand...



You just don't pay attention...

https://www.rt.com/news/514335-sweden-violence-shootings-increase/
Sweden recorded a surge in gun-related violence last year, according to new figures released by the government amid accusations that authorities have turned a blind eye to rising crime in the country.
Interior Minister Mikael Damberg disclosed on Monday that 47 people were killed and 117 injured in 366 shooting incidents in 2020, marking a 10 percent increase in gun violence when compared to statistics from 2019.

Damberg noted that in nearly half of the shootings registered last year, someone was injured or killed. _“We will neither accept nor get used to such high levels of violence,”_ he said.


The situation in Malmo, a city with a large migrant population that has struggled with gang violence, has improved, while crime is surging in Stockholm, the interior minister pointed out.

According to Damberg, the Swedish capital saw a staggering 79 percent increase in shootings in 2020.
-----
Most of the violent incidents occurred in 60 suburbs across the country identified by police as _“vulnerable”_ areas. Damberg said that while 5.4 percent of Sweden’s population live in such neighborhoods, they account for more than half of the nation’s fatal shootings.


===========
In the report on Tuesday, the Swedish Television, citing statistics from the Swedish Police Authority, revealed that by November, there had been as many shootings in 2020 as during the whole of 2019.
Between January 1 and December 15, there were 349 confirmed shootings in Sweden, with 111 people wounded and 44 dead as a result, Xinhua news agency quoted the report as saying.
The death toll is close to the highest number on record so far -- 45 gun-related fatalities in 2018.
Most of the shootings, or 146, occurred in the capital Stockholm, where 23 deaths and 48 injuries were reported.
According to the police, most incidents were related to organised crime and conflicts between gang members.
Criminologist Joakim Sturup told Swedish Television that a major reason behind the worrying statistics is that automatic weapons are becoming more commonly used by gang members.

Sweden witnesses spike in shooting incidents​​Shootings on the Rise in Sweden Despite Crackdown on Gang Violence, COVID-19 Epidemic​The number of shootings is increasing in Sweden, despite a national effort to curtail gang violence amid the ongoing coronavirus epidemic, SVT reported.​-------
The police also noted that the raging coronavirus epidemic, contrary to some people's expectations, has not had a major impact on crime. This is likely due to the fact that Sweden, unlike most European nations, has consistently avoided lockdowns. Even the flow of drugs has not been disturbed to any great extent, the police said. However, there is still a risk that reduced access to drugs may increase violence.
Crime gangs in Sweden: What's behind the rise in the use of explosives?

The frequent use of explosives is a relatively recent phenomenon, and criminologists told The Local that the blasts can be seen as part of an overall rise in violence and growing recklessness in these criminal networks.

Amir Rostami, a police superintendent turned sociologist with a focus on criminal gangs, told The Local that so-called 'street gangs' are showing an increased tendency towards violence, and that this violence was becoming more severe when it took place.

*"If previously they maybe fired one shot or shot someone in the legs, today it's more about AK47s, using more bullets, hand grenades and explosions that we didn't see before.* I'd say that's the biggest shift we see – they're more reckless, they don't seem to care about the consequences," Rostami said.

Fatal shootings linked to criminal gangs have increased from around four per year in the early 1990s to over 40 in 2018. And while the blasts that have taken place in Sweden have caused no fatalities so far this year, they could be seen as a sign that the gangs are unafraid of causing damage and potentially harming people.
No, Sweden, hand grenade attacks aren’t an ‘image’ problem

In 2018 there were 162 bombings reported to police, and 93 reported in the first five months of this year, 30 more than during the same period in 2018. The level of attacks is _“extreme in a country that is not at war,”_ Crime Commissioner Gunnar Appelgren told SVT last year.
-------
*The use of hand grenades is a purely Swedish phenomenon too, with no other country in Europe reporting their use on such a level, a police manager told Swedish Radio in 2016, a year after attacks first spiked.*

The grenades used almost exclusively originate in the former Yugoslavia, and are sold in Sweden for around $100 per piece. But while only three hand grenades were thrown in Kosovo between 2013 and 2014, more than 20 have been used in Sweden every year since 2015.

*More broadly, homicide has risen in Sweden, with more than 300 shootings reported last year, causing 45 deaths.* Though homicide rates had been in decline since 2002, they again began trending upwards in 2015, as did rapes and sexual assaults, which more than tripled in the last four years.

*Of course, 2015 was also the year in which Sweden flung open its doors to more than 160,000 asylum seekers, more per capita than any other European country.
-------

Dagens Nyheter pointed out that 90 percent of shooting perpetrators in Sweden are either first or second generation immigrants.*​Bomb attacks are now a normal part of Swedish life | The Spectator​
Only days after the murder of Karolin Hakim, another young woman fell victim to the gang wars. Eighteen-year-old Ndella Jack was killed as someone fired an automatic weapon into her flat in western Stockholm, probably aiming for her husband, a well-known figure in Stockholm’s gang scene. Less than a week after the murder, associates of Ms Jack’s husband were lured to a middle-class suburb of Stockholm, where they had been promised information about her killer. Shots were fired, missing the targets and hitting instead a taxi driver and a resident in a nearby building. One victim, also a university student, lost his sight in an eye after it was hit by a bullet


Holding Sweden hostage: firearm-related violence

Statistics from the NBHW shows that the number of individuals in Sweden injured by a firearm has greatly increased since 2009. Between 2012 and 2017, the number of individuals that were injured by a firearm increased by 50% [13]. Figure 3 outlines the number of individuals being treated at Swedish hospitals for firearm-related injuries.
----------
International reports [1, 2], the Swedish police [12,19], and Swedish scholars [3–6,20,21] *agree that the main cause for the increase in the rate of firearm-related violence is the presence of many gangs and criminal networks in Sweden.*

Although gangs and criminal networks have always existed in Sweden, street gangs flourished in the late 1990s and are today considered to be one of the main security problems in the country [22–24]. Swedish gangs and foremost criminal networks have not only continued to increase, but*they have also become bolder and more violent as can be seen in their use of firearms and explosive devices as their modus operandi [3,6].*

Another very important source of the increase of firearm-related violence in Sweden is the easy access to illegal firearms. Although Sweden was, for decades, shielded from firearm-related violence, mostly because of its restrictive gun laws, the easy access to illegal firearms, in addition to the many gangs and criminal networks in the country, is the main reason for the disturbing increase in the country’s rate of firearm-related violence. According to police reports, there has been a high inflow of illegal weapons into Sweden from the western Balkans [12].
==========

https://www.thelocal.se/20190704/in-depth-whats-behind-the-rise-in-gang-violence-across-sweden

Honour, debts, and prestige are serving as the pretext for an increasing number of deadly shootings that challenge the ideals of equality and social harmony on which modern Sweden was built.
Stats in Sweden show rise in violence after refugee surge

Murder rose 11 percent in 2016 when compared to 2015's numbers.

Men specifically are killed by gunfire at an increased rate too - up 28 percent in that same time period.

Leading up to 2016, more than a quarter million refugees applied for asylum in Sweden, most fleeing war zones in Muslim-majority countries.​​Abstract​Recent reports state that firearm-related violence is increasing in Sweden. In order to understand the trend of firearm-related violence in Sweden with regard to rate, modus operandi (MO) and homicide typology, and for which injuries and causes of death firearm-related violence is responsible, a systematic literature review was conducted. After a thorough search in different databases, a total of 25 studies published in Swedish and English peer-review journals were identified and thus analyzed. The results show that even though knives/sharp weapons continue to be the most common MO in a violent crime in Sweden, firearm-related violence is significantly increasing in the country and foremost when discussing gang-related crimes. Moreover, firearm-related homicides and attempted homicides are increasing in the country. The studies also show that a firearm is much more lethal than a knife/sharp weapon, and that the head, thorax and the abdomen are the most lethal and serious anatomical locations in which to be hit. It is principally the three largest cities of Sweden which are affected by the many shootings in recent years. The police have severe difficulties in solving firearm-related crimes such as homicide and attempted homicide, which is why the confidence and trust for the Swedish judicial system may be decreasing among the citizens. Several reforms have taken place in Sweden in the last few years, but their effect on firearm-related violence remains to be studied.
========
4/19/18

Sweden’s violent reality is undoing a peaceful self-image

Gang-related gun murders, now mainly a phenomenon among men with immigrant backgrounds in the country’s parallel societies, increased from 4 per year in the early 1990s to around 40 last year. Because of this, Sweden has gone from being a low-crime country to having homicide rates significantly above the Western European average. Social unrest, with car torchings, attacks on first responders and even riots, is a recurring phenomenon.

*Shootings in the country have become so common that they don’t make top headlines anymore, unless they are spectacular or lead to fatalities.*

 News of attacks are quickly replaced with headlines about sports events and celebrities, as readers have become desensitized to the violence.


* A generation ago, bombings against the police and riots were extremely rare events. Today, reading about such incidents is considered part of daily life.*

3/9/18

https://www.economist.com/news/euro...edish-sense-security-why-are-young-men-sweden
IT WAS supposed to be a sneaky afternoon cigarette break.

*Then a gunman in black appeared and shot 15-year-old Robin Sinisalo in the head. *

His older brother Alejandro was shot four times. Robin died immediately on the doorstep of his home in north-west Stockholm. Alejandro was left in a wheelchair for life. Two years later, the boys’ mother, Carolina, says the police still have no leads.

Robin’s fate is increasingly common in Sweden. In 2011 only 17 people were killed by firearms. In 2017 the country had over 300 shootings, leaving 41 people dead and over 100 injured.

The violence mostly stems from street gangs running small-time drug operations in big cities such as Stockholm, the capital, Malmö and Gothenburg.

*Gang members have even used hand grenades to attack police stations.*

Between 2010 and 2015, people were killed by illegal firearms at the same rate as in southern Italy. Though Sweden is still a relatively peaceful place, this is worrying.

*Acquiring a legal gun requires strict screening, but Kalashnikovs from the Yugoslav wars are readily available on the black market. To sweeten the deal, smugglers often throw in hand grenades (there were 43 grenade incidents in Sweden last year). The victims and perpetrators of gang violence are nearly always young men.
*
But shootings with illegal guns have been rising since the mid-2000s. Most gang members are indeed first- or second-generation immigrants—72% of them, according to one report, but they tend not to be new arrivals.



3/3/18

Sweden grenades increasing...


Hand Grenades and Gang Violence Rattle Sweden’s Middle Class

Weapons from a faraway, long-ago war are flowing into immigrant neighborhoods here, puncturing Swedes’ sense of confidence and security. 

The country’s murder rate remains low, by American standards, and violent crime is stable or dropping in many places. But gang-related assaults and shootings are becoming more frequent, and the number of neighborhoods categorized by the police as “marred by crime, social unrest and insecurity” is rising. Crime and immigration are certain to be key issues in September’s general election, alongside the traditional debates over education and health care.

Continue reading the main story


Part of the reason is that Sweden’s gang violence, long contained within low-income suburbs, has begun to spill out. In large cities, hospitals report armed confrontations in emergency rooms, and school administrators say threats and weapons have become commonplace. Last week two men from Uppsala, both in their 20s, were arrested on charges of throwing grenades at the home of a bank employee who investigates fraud cases.

An earlier jolt came with the death of Mr. Zuniga, who on Jan. 7 picked up the grenade, which the police believe had been thrown by members of a local gang targeting a rival gang or police officers.

----

Affixed to the wall in Mr. Appelgren’s office in Stockholm’s Police Headquarters is a chart showing the increase in the use of hand grenades. Until 2014 there were about a handful every year. In 2015, that number leapt: 45 grenades were seized by the police, and 10 others were detonated. The next year, 55 were seized and 35 detonated. A modest decrease occurred in 2017, when 39 were seized and 21 were detonated.

Mr. Appelgren has watched the trend apprehensively, calling it an arms race among gangs.

“I think we’re going to see, if we don’t stop it, more drive-by shootings with Kalashnikovs and hand grenades,” he said. “They throw rocks and bottles at our cars, and they trick us in an ambush. When will it happen that they ambush us with Kalashnikovs? It’s coming.”



https://www.thelocal.se/20170905/wh...ings-per-capita-than-norway-and-germany-malmo

Sweden has in recent years seen a sharp increase in the number of shootings per capita, with research suggesting that the Scandinavian country is statistically on par with southern Italy and parts of Ireland.
In 2016, some 250 shootings (random, fatal and non-fatal) were registered by police in Stockholm, Gothenburg and Malmö. In 2014, that number came to 200, indicating that Sweden is experiencing a drastic rise in such incidents.
“We don’t really know why yet, but what we can see is that the increase comes as we also see a rise in gang-related crimes and a growing number of criminal networks,” Manne Gerell, a criminologist at Malmö University, told The Local, after Swedish public radio first wrote about new research he is involved in.
One study which is yet to be published suggests that Sweden experienced four to five times as many fatal shootings per capita as Norway and Germany in 2008-2014, two otherwise similar countries. Previous figures have shown that deadly violence in general is going down in Sweden, but gun violence has gone up.
Gerell also singled out Malmö, Sweden’s third-largest city, as the one place where shootings are becoming particularly common.
“Malmö stands out,” he said, noting that the southern city is somewhat more exposed to social problems and poverty in comparison to both the capital and Gothenburg.
“Malmö is also what we describe an ‘early adopter’ when it comes to crime. It was the first of the three cities where hand grenade crimes became more commonplace and it was also the place for the establishment of Sweden’s first biker-gangs. We don’t know whether this is to do with its proximity to the European continent or not, but it could explain why the trends seem to start there.”
=========

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=6770170

New research says Sweden sees more deadly shootings per capita than its closest European neighbors, and the low number of gun crimes solved by police here may be part of the reason why.
Sweden experiences four to five times more fatal shootings per capita than Norway and Germany, according to the ongoing research from Malmö University, Karolinska Hospital and Stockholm University. 
The areas with the most shootings are Sweden's major cities: Stockholm, Gothenburg and Malmö. The victims as well as the perpetrators also tend to be younger than those in other the countries.


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## 2aguy

NoNukes said:


> 2aguy said:
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> NoNukes said:
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> BlackSand said:
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> Ray From Cleveland said:
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> Do you lock the doors on your home when you leave the house empty or go to sleep at night?  Do you lock the doors on your car when you exit your vehicle?  Do you have insurance on your home in case of a theft or the house sustains damage from fires, water leaks, a tree falling on it?
> 
> I pity you for going through life so scared.
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> That dude lives in a cardboard box behind the dumpster at the Portland Animal Shelter ... He ain't scared of shit.
> 
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> Click to expand...
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> I live in a safe place where people are not allowed to carry guns. Most of the police do not carry guns.
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> In America, if you don't live in a democrat party controlled city....you are safe too...
> 
> *As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas. These charts exclude suicides, for which data are not available on a congressional district basis, so it only breaks down the fraction of gun violence that is accidental or confrontational.*
> *--------*
> 
> *A distinct pattern emerged: In Democratic regions of the country, which tend to be cities, people are more likely to be murdered with a gun than they are to shoot themselves to death.
> 
> In regions of the country won by Republicans, which tend to be rural areas and small towns, the opposite is true — people are more likely to shoot themselves to death than they are to be murdered with a gun.
> ----
> In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.*
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...prising-way-gun-violence-is-dividing-america/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why carry firearms if it is safe. States with open carry laws are no safer.
Click to expand...



Crime happens when you least expect it......just ask any woman dragged from a bus stop and raped in an alley......

States with concealed and open carry laws are safer.....it is the higher restricted states where they have the most gun murder.......


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## NoNukes

2aguy said:


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> Ray From Cleveland said:
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> Do you lock the doors on your home when you leave the house empty or go to sleep at night?  Do you lock the doors on your car when you exit your vehicle?  Do you have insurance on your home in case of a theft or the house sustains damage from fires, water leaks, a tree falling on it?
> 
> I pity you for going through life so scared.
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> That dude lives in a cardboard box behind the dumpster at the Portland Animal Shelter ... He ain't scared of shit.
> 
> .​
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> Click to expand...
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> I live in a safe place where people are not allowed to carry guns. Most of the police do not carry guns.
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> Tell that to Sweden....they didn't think they needed guns...now 3rd world drug gangs are settling their beefs with fully automatic military rifles and grenades....
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> There will be criminal gangs everywhere.  I have not heard of any extreme criminal activity threatening the country in Sweden.
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> You just don't pay attention...
> 
> https://www.rt.com/news/514335-sweden-violence-shootings-increase/​Sweden recorded a surge in gun-related violence last year, according to new figures released by the government amid accusations that authorities have turned a blind eye to rising crime in the country.​Interior Minister Mikael Damberg disclosed on Monday that 47 people were killed and 117 injured in 366 shooting incidents in 2020, marking a 10 percent increase in gun violence when compared to statistics from 2019.​​Damberg noted that in nearly half of the shootings registered last year, someone was injured or killed. _“We will neither accept nor get used to such high levels of violence,”_ he said.​​​The situation in Malmo, a city with a large migrant population that has struggled with gang violence, has improved, while crime is surging in Stockholm, the interior minister pointed out.​​According to Damberg, the Swedish capital saw a staggering 79 percent increase in shootings in 2020.​-----​Most of the violent incidents occurred in 60 suburbs across the country identified by police as _“vulnerable”_ areas. Damberg said that while 5.4 percent of Sweden’s population live in such neighborhoods, they account for more than half of the nation’s fatal shootings.​​​===========​In the report on Tuesday, the Swedish Television, citing statistics from the Swedish Police Authority, revealed that by November, there had been as many shootings in 2020 as during the whole of 2019.​Between January 1 and December 15, there were 349 confirmed shootings in Sweden, with 111 people wounded and 44 dead as a result, Xinhua news agency quoted the report as saying.​The death toll is close to the highest number on record so far -- 45 gun-related fatalities in 2018.​Most of the shootings, or 146, occurred in the capital Stockholm, where 23 deaths and 48 injuries were reported.​According to the police, most incidents were related to organised crime and conflicts between gang members.​Criminologist Joakim Sturup told Swedish Television that a major reason behind the worrying statistics is that automatic weapons are becoming more commonly used by gang members.​​ Sweden witnesses spike in shooting incidents​​Shootings on the Rise in Sweden Despite Crackdown on Gang Violence, COVID-19 Epidemic​The number of shootings is increasing in Sweden, despite a national effort to curtail gang violence amid the ongoing coronavirus epidemic, SVT reported.​-------
> The police also noted that the raging coronavirus epidemic, contrary to some people's expectations, has not had a major impact on crime. This is likely due to the fact that Sweden, unlike most European nations, has consistently avoided lockdowns. Even the flow of drugs has not been disturbed to any great extent, the police said. However, there is still a risk that reduced access to drugs may increase violence.
> Crime gangs in Sweden: What's behind the rise in the use of explosives?​​The frequent use of explosives is a relatively recent phenomenon, and criminologists told The Local that the blasts can be seen as part of an overall rise in violence and growing recklessness in these criminal networks.​​Amir Rostami, a police superintendent turned sociologist with a focus on criminal gangs, told The Local that so-called 'street gangs' are showing an increased tendency towards violence, and that this violence was becoming more severe when it took place.​​*"If previously they maybe fired one shot or shot someone in the legs, today it's more about AK47s, using more bullets, hand grenades and explosions that we didn't see before.* I'd say that's the biggest shift we see – they're more reckless, they don't seem to care about the consequences," Rostami said.​​Fatal shootings linked to criminal gangs have increased from around four per year in the early 1990s to over 40 in 2018. And while the blasts that have taken place in Sweden have caused no fatalities so far this year, they could be seen as a sign that the gangs are unafraid of causing damage and potentially harming people.​No, Sweden, hand grenade attacks aren’t an ‘image’ problem​​In 2018 there were 162 bombings reported to police, and 93 reported in the first five months of this year, 30 more than during the same period in 2018. The level of attacks is _“extreme in a country that is not at war,”_ Crime Commissioner Gunnar Appelgren told SVT last year.​-------​*The use of hand grenades is a purely Swedish phenomenon too, with no other country in Europe reporting their use on such a level, a police manager told Swedish Radio in 2016, a year after attacks first spiked.*​​The grenades used almost exclusively originate in the former Yugoslavia, and are sold in Sweden for around $100 per piece. But while only three hand grenades were thrown in Kosovo between 2013 and 2014, more than 20 have been used in Sweden every year since 2015.​​*More broadly, homicide has risen in Sweden, with more than 300 shootings reported last year, causing 45 deaths.* Though homicide rates had been in decline since 2002, they again began trending upwards in 2015, as did rapes and sexual assaults, which more than tripled in the last four years.​​*Of course, 2015 was also the year in which Sweden flung open its doors to more than 160,000 asylum seekers, more per capita than any other European country.*​*-------*​​*Dagens Nyheter pointed out that 90 percent of shooting perpetrators in Sweden are either first or second generation immigrants.*​Bomb attacks are now a normal part of Swedish life | The Spectator​​Only days after the murder of Karolin Hakim, another young woman fell victim to the gang wars. Eighteen-year-old Ndella Jack was killed as someone fired an automatic weapon into her flat in western Stockholm, probably aiming for her husband, a well-known figure in Stockholm’s gang scene. Less than a week after the murder, associates of Ms Jack’s husband were lured to a middle-class suburb of Stockholm, where they had been promised information about her killer. Shots were fired, missing the targets and hitting instead a taxi driver and a resident in a nearby building. One victim, also a university student, lost his sight in an eye after it was hit by a bullet​​​Holding Sweden hostage: firearm-related violence​​Statistics from the NBHW shows that the number of individuals in Sweden injured by a firearm has greatly increased since 2009. Between 2012 and 2017, the number of individuals that were injured by a firearm increased by 50% [13]. Figure 3 outlines the number of individuals being treated at Swedish hospitals for firearm-related injuries.​----------​International reports [1, 2], the Swedish police [12,19], and Swedish scholars [3–6,20,21] *agree that the main cause for the increase in the rate of firearm-related violence is the presence of many gangs and criminal networks in Sweden.*​​Although gangs and criminal networks have always existed in Sweden, street gangs flourished in the late 1990s and are today considered to be one of the main security problems in the country [22–24]. Swedish gangs and foremost criminal networks have not only continued to increase, but*they have also become bolder and more violent as can be seen in their use of firearms and explosive devices as their modus operandi [3,6].*​​Another very important source of the increase of firearm-related violence in Sweden is the easy access to illegal firearms. Although Sweden was, for decades, shielded from firearm-related violence, mostly because of its restrictive gun laws, the easy access to illegal firearms, in addition to the many gangs and criminal networks in the country, is the main reason for the disturbing increase in the country’s rate of firearm-related violence. According to police reports, there has been a high inflow of illegal weapons into Sweden from the western Balkans [12].​==========​​https://www.thelocal.se/20190704/in-depth-whats-behind-the-rise-in-gang-violence-across-sweden​​Honour, debts, and prestige are serving as the pretext for an increasing number of deadly shootings that challenge the ideals of equality and social harmony on which modern Sweden was built.​Stats in Sweden show rise in violence after refugee surge​​Murder rose 11 percent in 2016 when compared to 2015's numbers.​​Men specifically are killed by gunfire at an increased rate too - up 28 percent in that same time period.​​Leading up to 2016, more than a quarter million refugees applied for asylum in Sweden, most fleeing war zones in Muslim-majority countries.​​Abstract​Recent reports state that firearm-related violence is increasing in Sweden. In order to understand the trend of firearm-related violence in Sweden with regard to rate, modus operandi (MO) and homicide typology, and for which injuries and causes of death firearm-related violence is responsible, a systematic literature review was conducted. After a thorough search in different databases, a total of 25 studies published in Swedish and English peer-review journals were identified and thus analyzed. The results show that even though knives/sharp weapons continue to be the most common MO in a violent crime in Sweden, firearm-related violence is significantly increasing in the country and foremost when discussing gang-related crimes. Moreover, firearm-related homicides and attempted homicides are increasing in the country. The studies also show that a firearm is much more lethal than a knife/sharp weapon, and that the head, thorax and the abdomen are the most lethal and serious anatomical locations in which to be hit. It is principally the three largest cities of Sweden which are affected by the many shootings in recent years. The police have severe difficulties in solving firearm-related crimes such as homicide and attempted homicide, which is why the confidence and trust for the Swedish judicial system may be decreasing among the citizens. Several reforms have taken place in Sweden in the last few years, but their effect on firearm-related violence remains to be studied.
> ========
> 4/19/18
> 
> Sweden’s violent reality is undoing a peaceful self-image
> 
> Gang-related gun murders, now mainly a phenomenon among men with immigrant backgrounds in the country’s parallel societies, increased from 4 per year in the early 1990s to around 40 last year. Because of this, Sweden has gone from being a low-crime country to having homicide rates significantly above the Western European average. Social unrest, with car torchings, attacks on first responders and even riots, is a recurring phenomenon.
> 
> *Shootings in the country have become so common that they don’t make top headlines anymore, unless they are spectacular or lead to fatalities.*
> 
> News of attacks are quickly replaced with headlines about sports events and celebrities, as readers have become desensitized to the violence.
> 
> 
> * A generation ago, bombings against the police and riots were extremely rare events. Today, reading about such incidents is considered part of daily life.*
> 
> 3/9/18
> 
> Why are young men in Sweden shooting each other?
> IT WAS supposed to be a sneaky afternoon cigarette break.
> 
> *Then a gunman in black appeared and shot 15-year-old Robin Sinisalo in the head. *
> 
> His older brother Alejandro was shot four times. Robin died immediately on the doorstep of his home in north-west Stockholm. Alejandro was left in a wheelchair for life. Two years later, the boys’ mother, Carolina, says the police still have no leads.
> 
> Robin’s fate is increasingly common in Sweden. In 2011 only 17 people were killed by firearms. In 2017 the country had over 300 shootings, leaving 41 people dead and over 100 injured.
> 
> The violence mostly stems from street gangs running small-time drug operations in big cities such as Stockholm, the capital, Malmö and Gothenburg.
> 
> *Gang members have even used hand grenades to attack police stations.*
> 
> Between 2010 and 2015, people were killed by illegal firearms at the same rate as in southern Italy. Though Sweden is still a relatively peaceful place, this is worrying.
> 
> *Acquiring a legal gun requires strict screening, but Kalashnikovs from the Yugoslav wars are readily available on the black market. To sweeten the deal, smugglers often throw in hand grenades (there were 43 grenade incidents in Sweden last year). The victims and perpetrators of gang violence are nearly always young men.*
> 
> But shootings with illegal guns have been rising since the mid-2000s. Most gang members are indeed first- or second-generation immigrants—72% of them, according to one report, but they tend not to be new arrivals.
> 
> 
> 
> 3/3/18
> 
> Sweden grenades increasing...
> 
> 
> Hand Grenades and Gang Violence Rattle Sweden’s Middle Class
> 
> Weapons from a faraway, long-ago war are flowing into immigrant neighborhoods here, puncturing Swedes’ sense of confidence and security.
> 
> The country’s murder rate remains low, by American standards, and violent crime is stable or dropping in many places. But gang-related assaults and shootings are becoming more frequent, and the number of neighborhoods categorized by the police as “marred by crime, social unrest and insecurity” is rising. Crime and immigration are certain to be key issues in September’s general election, alongside the traditional debates over education and health care.
> 
> Continue reading the main story
> 
> 
> Part of the reason is that Sweden’s gang violence, long contained within low-income suburbs, has begun to spill out. In large cities, hospitals report armed confrontations in emergency rooms, and school administrators say threats and weapons have become commonplace. Last week two men from Uppsala, both in their 20s, were arrested on charges of throwing grenades at the home of a bank employee who investigates fraud cases.
> 
> An earlier jolt came with the death of Mr. Zuniga, who on Jan. 7 picked up the grenade, which the police believe had been thrown by members of a local gang targeting a rival gang or police officers.
> 
> ----
> 
> Affixed to the wall in Mr. Appelgren’s office in Stockholm’s Police Headquarters is a chart showing the increase in the use of hand grenades. Until 2014 there were about a handful every year. In 2015, that number leapt: 45 grenades were seized by the police, and 10 others were detonated. The next year, 55 were seized and 35 detonated. A modest decrease occurred in 2017, when 39 were seized and 21 were detonated.
> 
> Mr. Appelgren has watched the trend apprehensively, calling it an arms race among gangs.
> 
> “I think we’re going to see, if we don’t stop it, more drive-by shootings with Kalashnikovs and hand grenades,” he said. “They throw rocks and bottles at our cars, and they trick us in an ambush. When will it happen that they ambush us with Kalashnikovs? It’s coming.”
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.thelocal.se/20170905/wh...ings-per-capita-than-norway-and-germany-malmo
> 
> Sweden has in recent years seen a sharp increase in the number of shootings per capita, with research suggesting that the Scandinavian country is statistically on par with southern Italy and parts of Ireland.
> In 2016, some 250 shootings (random, fatal and non-fatal) were registered by police in Stockholm, Gothenburg and Malmö. In 2014, that number came to 200, indicating that Sweden is experiencing a drastic rise in such incidents.
> “We don’t really know why yet, but what we can see is that the increase comes as we also see a rise in gang-related crimes and a growing number of criminal networks,” Manne Gerell, a criminologist at Malmö University, told The Local, after Swedish public radio first wrote about new research he is involved in.
> One study which is yet to be published suggests that Sweden experienced four to five times as many fatal shootings per capita as Norway and Germany in 2008-2014, two otherwise similar countries. Previous figures have shown that deadly violence in general is going down in Sweden, but gun violence has gone up.
> Gerell also singled out Malmö, Sweden’s third-largest city, as the one place where shootings are becoming particularly common.
> “Malmö stands out,” he said, noting that the southern city is somewhat more exposed to social problems and poverty in comparison to both the capital and Gothenburg.
> “Malmö is also what we describe an ‘early adopter’ when it comes to crime. It was the first of the three cities where hand grenade crimes became more commonplace and it was also the place for the establishment of Sweden’s first biker-gangs. We don’t know whether this is to do with its proximity to the European continent or not, but it could explain why the trends seem to start there.”
> =========
> 
> Gun violence in Sweden surpasses neighboring countries, researchers say - Radio Sweden
> 
> New research says Sweden sees more deadly shootings per capita than its closest European neighbors, and the low number of gun crimes solved by police here may be part of the reason why.
> Sweden experiences four to five times more fatal shootings per capita than Norway and Germany, according to the ongoing research from Malmö University, Karolinska Hospital and Stockholm University.
> The areas with the most shootings are Sweden's major cities: Stockholm, Gothenburg and Malmö. The victims as well as the perpetrators also tend to be younger than those in other the countries.
Click to expand...

More guns is certainly not the answer to gun crime.
And where did you get all of this? A gun site?


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## NoNukes

2aguy said:


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> Ray From Cleveland said:
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> Do you lock the doors on your home when you leave the house empty or go to sleep at night?  Do you lock the doors on your car when you exit your vehicle?  Do you have insurance on your home in case of a theft or the house sustains damage from fires, water leaks, a tree falling on it?
> 
> I pity you for going through life so scared.
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> That dude lives in a cardboard box behind the dumpster at the Portland Animal Shelter ... He ain't scared of shit.
> 
> .​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I live in a safe place where people are not allowed to carry guns. Most of the police do not carry guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In America, if you don't live in a democrat party controlled city....you are safe too...
> 
> *As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas. These charts exclude suicides, for which data are not available on a congressional district basis, so it only breaks down the fraction of gun violence that is accidental or confrontational.*
> *--------*
> 
> *A distinct pattern emerged: In Democratic regions of the country, which tend to be cities, people are more likely to be murdered with a gun than they are to shoot themselves to death.
> 
> In regions of the country won by Republicans, which tend to be rural areas and small towns, the opposite is true — people are more likely to shoot themselves to death than they are to be murdered with a gun.
> ----
> In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.*
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...prising-way-gun-violence-is-dividing-america/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why carry firearms if it is safe. States with open carry laws are no safer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Crime happens when you least expect it......just ask any woman dragged from a bus stop and raped in an alley......
> 
> States with concealed and open carry laws are safer.....it is the higher restricted states where they have the most gun murder.......
Click to expand...

I have read that these are lies that you gun nuts put out.


----------



## Donald H

2aguy said:


> Crime happens when you least expect it......just ask any woman dragged from a bus stop and raped in an alley......
> 
> States with concealed and open carry laws are safer.....it is the higher restricted states where they have the most gun murder.......



Jesus hasn't distributed guns equally in America.

*The NRA Song*



Guns are neat, Guns are sweet
Guns the tool, what makes you cool.
Guns are fine, Guns are mine
*Guns are things, that Jesus brings!*
Guns for loonies, Guns for cons
Guns for Moonies, Guns for moms!
Guns are fun for everyone,
buy them up by the ton.
Guns for me, Guns for you,
Guns for nuts and children too!
Guns at home, Guns at work,
Guns at play, Guns berserk!
Tons and tons of great big Guns,
Are tons and tons of great big fun!
I’ve got Guns up my nose
‘tween my ears and by my toes.
I’m no fool, I’m so cool,
I take Guns to my school.
I take Guns to my car,
to the store and to the bar.
I got Guns in a drawer,
in my pocket and on the floor.
I got Guns on the wall,
behind the toilet and in the hall.
I got guns in my bed,
one is growing from my head!
Get a Gun and get it fast,
Gun-Gun shoot-shoot is a blast!​


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

NoNukes said:


> More guns is certainly not the answer to gun crime.
> And where did you get all of this? A gun site?



It's not more guns, it's more people carrying guns that will help reduce gun crimes.  Having a gun in your dresser drawer is great when you're home, but it doesn't do you or anybody else much good out in public.


----------



## Quasar44

NoNukes said:


> Donald H said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> GO TEXAS!
> 
> 
> 
> The proof of this being a wise move for Texas will start to be proven no later than Friday night!
> 
> Then on Saturday morning Texans will wake up hearing the news of how the night was kept so quiet and peaceful by 'good' gun owners in the bars and taverns.
> Will the libruls then learn to stfu?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Alcohol and handguns are such a good combination.
Click to expand...

Anyone with any criminal record should not be allowed to conceal


----------



## NoNukes

Ray From Cleveland said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> More guns is certainly not the answer to gun crime.
> And where did you get all of this? A gun site?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not more guns, it's more people carrying guns that will help reduce gun crimes.  Having a gun in your dresser drawer is great when you're home, but it doesn't do you or anybody else much good out in public.
Click to expand...

Carrying it in public is not doing any good. It only brings more problems.


----------



## Jarlaxle

Donald H said:


> Likely not going to make any difference in Texas. Bad people who shoot their fellow Americans are 'good' people with guns until they start shooting people. Every gun owner is a potential killer.
> 
> Maybe one way to screen out the good people wanting to own guns from the 'bad' would be to ask them one simple question before allowing them to start building an arsenal.
> 
> *Do you intend to shoot at human silouette targets?*


Are you stupid?


----------



## Jarlaxle

> @HereWeGoAgain
> Then why allow them in bars?



In many places, a "bar" is, legally, any place that serves alcohol-even if it's actually nothing more than a restaurant with a liquor license.


----------



## Skylar

Biff_Poindexter said:


> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing -- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....


Try carrying that pistol on your hip into any bar and see how free from government intervention you are.


----------



## Pellinore

Skylar said:


> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing -- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> Try carrying that pistol on your hip into any bar and see how free from government intervention you are.
Click to expand...

I don't know, man.  I feel as if there are a significant number of states in this nation in which government might actually give you a medal.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

NoNukes said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you lock the doors on your home when you leave the house empty or go to sleep at night?  Do you lock the doors on your car when you exit your vehicle?  Do you have insurance on your home in case of a theft or the house sustains damage from fires, water leaks, a tree falling on it?
> 
> I pity you for going through life so scared.
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> That dude lives in a cardboard box behind the dumpster at the Portland Animal Shelter ... He ain't scared of shit.
> 
> .​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I live in a safe place where people are not allowed to carry guns. Most of the police do not carry guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In America, if you don't live in a democrat party controlled city....you are safe too...
> 
> *As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas. These charts exclude suicides, for which data are not available on a congressional district basis, so it only breaks down the fraction of gun violence that is accidental or confrontational.*
> *--------*
> 
> *A distinct pattern emerged: In Democratic regions of the country, which tend to be cities, people are more likely to be murdered with a gun than they are to shoot themselves to death.
> 
> In regions of the country won by Republicans, which tend to be rural areas and small towns, the opposite is true — people are more likely to shoot themselves to death than they are to be murdered with a gun.
> ----
> In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.*
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...prising-way-gun-violence-is-dividing-america/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why carry firearms if it is safe. States with open carry laws are no safer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Crime happens when you least expect it......just ask any woman dragged from a bus stop and raped in an alley......
> 
> States with concealed and open carry laws are safer.....it is the higher restricted states where they have the most gun murder.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have read that these are lies that you gun nuts put out.
Click to expand...

You are an idiot, that's why!


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

NoNukes said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> More guns is certainly not the answer to gun crime.
> And where did you get all of this? A gun site?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not more guns, it's more people carrying guns that will help reduce gun crimes.  Having a gun in your dresser drawer is great when you're home, but it doesn't do you or anybody else much good out in public.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Carrying it in public is not doing any good. It only brings more problems.
Click to expand...


Like what?


----------



## NoNukes

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> More guns is certainly not the answer to gun crime.
> And where did you get all of this? A gun site?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not more guns, it's more people carrying guns that will help reduce gun crimes.  Having a gun in your dresser drawer is great when you're home, but it doesn't do you or anybody else much good out in public.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Carrying it in public is not doing any good. It only brings more problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like what?
Click to expand...

People shooting at each other. Are you really this stupid?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

NoNukes said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> More guns is certainly not the answer to gun crime.
> And where did you get all of this? A gun site?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not more guns, it's more people carrying guns that will help reduce gun crimes.  Having a gun in your dresser drawer is great when you're home, but it doesn't do you or anybody else much good out in public.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Carrying it in public is not doing any good. It only brings more problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People shooting at each other. Are you really this stupid?
Click to expand...

Yes, it is usually good guys with guns preventing mass shootings.

It has been decades but while I was living in Florida, a guy entered a popular restaurant at lunchtime, filled with patrons, with intent to avail himself of the cash in the register.  He loudly began threatening the cashier at gunpoint, when two patrons stood up and ended his miserable existence on earth with a few well placed rounds of their own.

Would you hold up an establishment knowing that a good number of the others present were packing heat?  Unless you are a moron, you would be very hesitant I am sure!


----------



## NoNukes

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> More guns is certainly not the answer to gun crime.
> And where did you get all of this? A gun site?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not more guns, it's more people carrying guns that will help reduce gun crimes.  Having a gun in your dresser drawer is great when you're home, but it doesn't do you or anybody else much good out in public.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Carrying it in public is not doing any good. It only brings more problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People shooting at each other. Are you really this stupid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, it is usually good guys with guns preventing mass shootings.
> 
> It has been decades but while I was living in Florida, a guy entered a popular restaurant at lunchtime, filled with patrons, with intent to avail himself of the cash in the register.  He loudly began threatening the cashier at gunpoint, when two patrons stood up and ended his miserable existence on earth with a few well placed rounds of their own.
> 
> Would you hold up an establishment knowing that a good number of the others present were packing heat?  Unless you are a moron, you would be very hesitant I am sure!
Click to expand...

This guy did it. Does that answer your stupid question?


----------



## 2aguy

Skylar said:


> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing -- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> Try carrying that pistol on your hip into any bar and see how free from government intervention you are.
Click to expand...



You mean like this....

Allowing guns into bars has 'surprising' result

When Virginia passed a law allowing concealed carry in bars and alcohol-serving restaurants beginning July 1 of last year, opponents of the change decried the dangers of mixing guns and alcohol, for fear violent crimes would escalate.
But one year later, the Richmond Times-Dispatch did a study to see if the gloomy prognostications came true.
According to state police records, not only did gun violence in bars and restaurants _not_ increase under the new law, it _decreased_ by 5.2 percent.
In fact, of the 145 reported crimes with guns that occurred in Virginia bars and restaurants in fiscal 2010-11 (compared to 153 incidents in the year before the new law took effect), only two of the aggravated assault cases were related to concealed-carry permit holders. In one incident, the crime took place at a restaurant that didn’t serve alcohol – thus unrelated to the new law – and in the other, the weapon was neither discharged nor withdrawn from its holster.
“The numbers basically just confirm what we’ve said would happen if the General Assembly changed the law,” Philip Van Cleave, president of the pro-gun Virginia Citizens Defense League, told the Times-Dispatch. “Keep in mind what the other side was saying – that this was going to be a blood bath, that restaurants will be dangerous and people will stop going. But there was nothing to base the fear-mongering on.”

Read more at Allowing guns into bars has 'surprising' result

*More.....actual research by Richmond Times-Dispatch*
Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants

*The number of major crimes involving firearms at bars and restaurants statewide declined 5.2 percent from July 1, 2010, to June 30, 2011, compared with the fiscal year before the law went into effect, according to crime data compiled by Virginia State Police at the newspaper's request.

--------------------------

At The* Times-Dispatch's request, state police pulled from their computerized database all major crimes at bars and restaurants reported by local law-enforcement agencies across Virginia for two successive fiscal years. The Times-Dispatch then contacted more than a dozen police departments in Virginia for more detailed information on all aggravated assaults, homicides and sexual assaults involving firearms at those businesses.
Reported robberies were not analyzed because they tend to involve premeditated crimes by perpetrators openly displaying guns, and many of the affected businesses are chain restaurants that don't serve alcohol.
*Only two fatal shootings occurred during the last fiscal year — one outside a Petersburg nightclub and the other at a Radford restaurant — but neither involved concealed-gun permit holders.* *And only two of the 18 aggravated assaults reported could be linked definitively to concealed-carry holders.*
Several other cases appear to have involved hidden guns, but the suspects either didn't have a concealed permit, or they fled the scene before they could be identified and arrested.
One of the few unambiguous cases of a concealed-gun permit holder breaking the law occurred on July 28, 2010 — 27 days after the law became active — at a deli in York County. In that case, a patron who had been drinking heavily with a gun concealed in his pocket allegedly sexually harassed a female waitress and, at one point, placed his hand over his hidden gun so the waitress could see its outline.
After making a comment the waitress construed as a threat, the man left but was stopped a short time later by police. They recovered a .380-caliber pistol from his pants pocket and charged him with driving under the influence, brandishing a firearm and carrying a concealed weapon.
He was charged with the latter offense — even though he had a permit to carry the gun — because he had been drinking in the deli while in possession of a concealed firearm. The law forbids concealed-gun permit holders to drink alcohol while they are inside bars and restaurants with guns hidden from view. Patrons who legally carry firearms openly into bars and restaurants can drink freely.
Authorities confiscated the man's concealed-gun permit, but the brandishing and concealed weapon charges were eventually withdrawn by prosecutors. He was convicted of driving while drunk.
In another case closer to home, a Hopewell man with a concealed-carry permit was arrested in June after police said he brandished a gun in the parking lot of a chain restaurant after a verbal dispute escalated into a fight among several patrons. No shots were fired, but punches were thrown.
Although the man pulled a concealed weapon during the fight, the new law didn't really apply because the restaurant where the incident occurred doesn't serve alcohol. The man was convicted last month of brandishing the gun — which he appealed — and a malicious-wounding charge was certified to a Hopewell grand jury.
Aside from the two homicides, the only assault that resulted in a person being shot occurred in February outside a Virginia Beach restaurant and bar. The shooting followed an altercation inside the restaurant. Several unknown men were asked to leave, and the victim was shot and wounded as he walked toward a male in an adjacent parking lot, police said.
But because the suspect was never identified and arrested, police don't know whether the shooter was carrying a concealed gun or whether he had a permit to carry it.


----------



## Biff_Poindexter

2aguy said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing -- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> Try carrying that pistol on your hip into any bar and see how free from government intervention you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like this....
> 
> Allowing guns into bars has 'surprising' result
> 
> When Virginia passed a law allowing concealed carry in bars and alcohol-serving restaurants beginning July 1 of last year, opponents of the change decried the dangers of mixing guns and alcohol, for fear violent crimes would escalate.
> But one year later, the Richmond Times-Dispatch did a study to see if the gloomy prognostications came true.
> According to state police records, not only did gun violence in bars and restaurants _not_ increase under the new law, it _decreased_ by 5.2 percent.
> In fact, of the 145 reported crimes with guns that occurred in Virginia bars and restaurants in fiscal 2010-11 (compared to 153 incidents in the year before the new law took effect), only two of the aggravated assault cases were related to concealed-carry permit holders. In one incident, the crime took place at a restaurant that didn’t serve alcohol – thus unrelated to the new law – and in the other, the weapon was neither discharged nor withdrawn from its holster.
> “The numbers basically just confirm what we’ve said would happen if the General Assembly changed the law,” Philip Van Cleave, president of the pro-gun Virginia Citizens Defense League, told the Times-Dispatch. “Keep in mind what the other side was saying – that this was going to be a blood bath, that restaurants will be dangerous and people will stop going. But there was nothing to base the fear-mongering on.”
> 
> Read more at Allowing guns into bars has 'surprising' result
> 
> *More.....actual research by Richmond Times-Dispatch*
> Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants
> 
> *The number of major crimes involving firearms at bars and restaurants statewide declined 5.2 percent from July 1, 2010, to June 30, 2011, compared with the fiscal year before the law went into effect, according to crime data compiled by Virginia State Police at the newspaper's request.
> 
> --------------------------
> 
> At The* Times-Dispatch's request, state police pulled from their computerized database all major crimes at bars and restaurants reported by local law-enforcement agencies across Virginia for two successive fiscal years. The Times-Dispatch then contacted more than a dozen police departments in Virginia for more detailed information on all aggravated assaults, homicides and sexual assaults involving firearms at those businesses.
> Reported robberies were not analyzed because they tend to involve premeditated crimes by perpetrators openly displaying guns, and many of the affected businesses are chain restaurants that don't serve alcohol.
> *Only two fatal shootings occurred during the last fiscal year — one outside a Petersburg nightclub and the other at a Radford restaurant — but neither involved concealed-gun permit holders.* *And only two of the 18 aggravated assaults reported could be linked definitively to concealed-carry holders.*
> Several other cases appear to have involved hidden guns, but the suspects either didn't have a concealed permit, or they fled the scene before they could be identified and arrested.
> One of the few unambiguous cases of a concealed-gun permit holder breaking the law occurred on July 28, 2010 — 27 days after the law became active — at a deli in York County. In that case, a patron who had been drinking heavily with a gun concealed in his pocket allegedly sexually harassed a female waitress and, at one point, placed his hand over his hidden gun so the waitress could see its outline.
> After making a comment the waitress construed as a threat, the man left but was stopped a short time later by police. They recovered a .380-caliber pistol from his pants pocket and charged him with driving under the influence, brandishing a firearm and carrying a concealed weapon.
> He was charged with the latter offense — even though he had a permit to carry the gun — because he had been drinking in the deli while in possession of a concealed firearm. The law forbids concealed-gun permit holders to drink alcohol while they are inside bars and restaurants with guns hidden from view. Patrons who legally carry firearms openly into bars and restaurants can drink freely.
> Authorities confiscated the man's concealed-gun permit, but the brandishing and concealed weapon charges were eventually withdrawn by prosecutors. He was convicted of driving while drunk.
> In another case closer to home, a Hopewell man with a concealed-carry permit was arrested in June after police said he brandished a gun in the parking lot of a chain restaurant after a verbal dispute escalated into a fight among several patrons. No shots were fired, but punches were thrown.
> Although the man pulled a concealed weapon during the fight, the new law didn't really apply because the restaurant where the incident occurred doesn't serve alcohol. The man was convicted last month of brandishing the gun — which he appealed — and a malicious-wounding charge was certified to a Hopewell grand jury.
> Aside from the two homicides, the only assault that resulted in a person being shot occurred in February outside a Virginia Beach restaurant and bar. The shooting followed an altercation inside the restaurant. Several unknown men were asked to leave, and the victim was shot and wounded as he walked toward a male in an adjacent parking lot, police said.
> But because the suspect was never identified and arrested, police don't know whether the shooter was carrying a concealed gun or whether he had a permit to carry it.
Click to expand...

As long as we don't allow darkies to open carry...

I know we technically can't write a law that does that -- but there has to be other ways we can stop them


----------



## Papageorgio

Donald H said:


> Likely not going to make any difference in Texas. Bad people who shoot their fellow Americans are 'good' people with guns until they start shooting people. Every gun owner is a potential killer.
> 
> Maybe one way to screen out the good people wanting to own guns from the 'bad' would be to ask them one simple question before allowing them to start building an arsenal.
> 
> *Do you intend to shoot at human silouette targets?*


Isn't everyone who drives a potential killer as well?


----------



## Donald H

Papageorgio said:


> Isn't everyone who drives a potential killer as well?


NO! You stupid gungoon ass!

Your country is a joke to the rest of the world and not just on the gun violence and insanity.
The sooner ya'all get bigger and more efficient guns to kill each other with, the sooner will come some move to common sense solutions.


----------



## Papageorgio

Donald H said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't everyone who drives a potential killer as well?
> 
> 
> 
> NO! You stupid gungoon ass!
> 
> Your country is a joke to the rest of the world and not just on the gun violence and insanity.
> The sooner ya'all get bigger and more efficient guns to kill each other with, the sooner will come some move to common sense solutions.
Click to expand...

Oh cool, an uneducated person calling me names because they are not intelligent enough to carry on a civil conversation, then telling me my country is a joke? Whatever you need to do to make yourself feel better is fine by me. 

So if you drive a car there is no chance of you ever getting in an accident and killing someone? 

I don't own a gun, I am not fond of them and really see no need for one. If a fellow American wants to buy a gun, I have no problem with it. I'm not sure how things work where ever you live however, your country and your live is none of my concern.


----------



## 2aguy

Donald H said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't everyone who drives a potential killer as well?
> 
> 
> 
> NO! You stupid gungoon ass!
> 
> Your country is a joke to the rest of the world and not just on the gun violence and insanity.
> The sooner ya'all get bigger and more efficient guns to kill each other with, the sooner will come some move to common sense solutions.
Click to expand...



Hmmm....

30 Years War.

Communism

Nazism

Colonialism

Imperialism

World War 1

World War 2

The Holocaust

Ethnic Cleansing

Trans-atlantic slave trade

Yeah......I really don't think Europe has a lot to teach the U.S.......


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

NoNukes said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
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> NoNukes said:
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> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
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> NoNukes said:
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> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> More guns is certainly not the answer to gun crime.
> And where did you get all of this? A gun site?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not more guns, it's more people carrying guns that will help reduce gun crimes.  Having a gun in your dresser drawer is great when you're home, but it doesn't do you or anybody else much good out in public.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Carrying it in public is not doing any good. It only brings more problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People shooting at each other. Are you really this stupid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, it is usually good guys with guns preventing mass shootings.
> 
> It has been decades but while I was living in Florida, a guy entered a popular restaurant at lunchtime, filled with patrons, with intent to avail himself of the cash in the register.  He loudly began threatening the cashier at gunpoint, when two patrons stood up and ended his miserable existence on earth with a few well placed rounds of their own.
> 
> Would you hold up an establishment knowing that a good number of the others present were packing heat?  Unless you are a moron, you would be very hesitant I am sure!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This guy did it. Does that answer your stupid question?
Click to expand...

He was not from Florida and unfamiliar with the ways and means of our armed citizenry. I don't think he anticipated assuming room temperature because of his actions.


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## NoNukes

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> NoNukes said:
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> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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> NoNukes said:
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> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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> NoNukes said:
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> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> More guns is certainly not the answer to gun crime.
> And where did you get all of this? A gun site?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not more guns, it's more people carrying guns that will help reduce gun crimes.  Having a gun in your dresser drawer is great when you're home, but it doesn't do you or anybody else much good out in public.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Carrying it in public is not doing any good. It only brings more problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People shooting at each other. Are you really this stupid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, it is usually good guys with guns preventing mass shootings.
> 
> It has been decades but while I was living in Florida, a guy entered a popular restaurant at lunchtime, filled with patrons, with intent to avail himself of the cash in the register.  He loudly began threatening the cashier at gunpoint, when two patrons stood up and ended his miserable existence on earth with a few well placed rounds of their own.
> 
> Would you hold up an establishment knowing that a good number of the others present were packing heat?  Unless you are a moron, you would be very hesitant I am sure!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This guy did it. Does that answer your stupid question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was not from Florida and unfamiliar with the ways and means of our armed citizenry. I don't think he anticipated assuming room temperature because of his actions.
Click to expand...

So people having guns do not stop trouble.  Thank you.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

NoNukes said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
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> NoNukes said:
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> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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> NoNukes said:
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> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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> NoNukes said:
> 
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> 
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> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> More guns is certainly not the answer to gun crime.
> And where did you get all of this? A gun site?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not more guns, it's more people carrying guns that will help reduce gun crimes.  Having a gun in your dresser drawer is great when you're home, but it doesn't do you or anybody else much good out in public.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Carrying it in public is not doing any good. It only brings more problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People shooting at each other. Are you really this stupid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, it is usually good guys with guns preventing mass shootings.
> 
> It has been decades but while I was living in Florida, a guy entered a popular restaurant at lunchtime, filled with patrons, with intent to avail himself of the cash in the register.  He loudly began threatening the cashier at gunpoint, when two patrons stood up and ended his miserable existence on earth with a few well placed rounds of their own.
> 
> Would you hold up an establishment knowing that a good number of the others present were packing heat?  Unless you are a moron, you would be very hesitant I am sure!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This guy did it. Does that answer your stupid question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was not from Florida and unfamiliar with the ways and means of our armed citizenry. I don't think he anticipated assuming room temperature because of his actions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So people having guns do not stop trouble.  Thank you.
Click to expand...




NoNukes said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
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> NoNukes said:
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> 
> 
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> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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> NoNukes said:
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> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
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> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> More guns is certainly not the answer to gun crime.
> And where did you get all of this? A gun site?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not more guns, it's more people carrying guns that will help reduce gun crimes.  Having a gun in your dresser drawer is great when you're home, but it doesn't do you or anybody else much good out in public.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Carrying it in public is not doing any good. It only brings more problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People shooting at each other. Are you really this stupid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, it is usually good guys with guns preventing mass shootings.
> 
> It has been decades but while I was living in Florida, a guy entered a popular restaurant at lunchtime, filled with patrons, with intent to avail himself of the cash in the register.  He loudly began threatening the cashier at gunpoint, when two patrons stood up and ended his miserable existence on earth with a few well placed rounds of their own.
> 
> Would you hold up an establishment knowing that a good number of the others present were packing heat?  Unless you are a moron, you would be very hesitant I am sure!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This guy did it. Does that answer your stupid question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was not from Florida and unfamiliar with the ways and means of our armed citizenry. I don't think he anticipated assuming room temperature because of his actions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So people having guns do not stop trouble.  Thank you.
Click to expand...

Are you that fucked in the head?  The perp did not rob that restaurant, and will never rob or even attempt to rob another one.  That stopped trouble in my book and anyone else's that has an IQ above room temperature.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

NoNukes said:


> So people having guns do not stop trouble. Thank you.



People with guns use their firearms between 1 million to 4 million times every year, depending on who's number you subscribe to.  But I'll use the politically unbiased source of the FBI, who's statistics show Americans use their firearms to stop attacks and crimes over a million times a year.

Without those people who use their guns, that would mean an additional million or so crimes would be added to the crimes we already have.  Anybody that thinks guns don't stop  trouble never looked into the subject.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

NoNukes said:


> People shooting at each other. Are you really this stupid?



Statistics show that CCW holders are the most law abiding people in our country.  We even have less crime than police officers. 

If a CCW holder uses a gun, it's to stop an attack on themselves or others.  What you are suggesting is that only the criminal have the guns.  That's what's stupid.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Jarlaxle said:


> In many places, a "bar" is, legally, any place that serves alcohol-even if it's actually nothing more than a restaurant with a liquor license.



We had the same law in our state, and then they changed it.  Now any armed person can go to a place where alcohol is served, and providing they are not drinking any alcohol, are legally allowed to carry their firearm. 

That was several years ago, and since then, no problems.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

NoNukes said:


> Carrying it in public is not doing any good. It only brings more problems.



No, it prevents problems.  

I don't know what gun-free country you live in, but if a man sees a woman walking alone on the street at night where you live and wants to rob or rape her, he has little worries about resistance.  In the United States, if a guy here is thinking the same thing, he has to consider if it's worth dying for, because that short 100 lbs girl may just be packing a .357 with hollow points.  

The only way to control crime is with a strong enough deterrent.  Death is about the strongest deterrent you can offer to a criminal.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Quasar44 said:


> Anyone with any criminal record should not be allowed to conceal



Anybody with a felony on their record is not allowed to possess any kind of gun at all, even in their own home.


----------



## Jarlaxle

Biff_Poindexter said:


> As long as we don't allow darkies to open carry...
> 
> I know we technically can't write a law that does that -- but there has to be other ways we can stop them



This is a textbook example of pure projection.


----------



## miketx

marvin martian said:


> Biff_Poindexter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permitless carry of a handgun in Texas nearly law, after Senate OKs bill
> 
> 
> House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"House Bill 1927 would nix the requirement for Texas residents to obtain a license to carry handguns if they’re not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The Republican-led effort to allow Texans to carry handguns without any kind of license cleared what is likely its biggest remaining hurdle in the Capitol on Wednesday. **“This bill, to me, is a restoration of the belief in and trust of our citizens,”* *said state Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, who is carrying the legislation in the upper chamber. Also, Texas does not require a license to openly carry a rifle in public."*
> 
> That Texas Senator is absolutely right -- Texans can have trust in their fellow ciztizens that they will do the right thing -- there is no need for big government to license you and make you jump thru all kinds of hoops just to exercise your constitutional right.....before, you had to not just pay for a concealed carry license, you had to go thru training and all of this other crap....that is basically tyranny.....Besides, what do they expect?? That any and everybody is going to feel they can open carry a weapon anywhere they want? They were going to do that anyway, no need to put all of these cumbersome restrictions on the rest of us.....it's not like voting or anything....now that would be really dangerous....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It hasn't passed yet, but I hope it does soon.  Texas will join 17 other states that don't infringe on their citizens' civil rights.
> 
> Thankfully, the vast majority of folks shooting each other occurs in places run by people exactly like you.
Click to expand...

It was signed into law yesterday and goes into effect September 1st.


----------



## miketx

Quasar44 said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald H said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> GO TEXAS!
> 
> 
> 
> The proof of this being a wise move for Texas will start to be proven no later than Friday night!
> 
> Then on Saturday morning Texans will wake up hearing the news of how the night was kept so quiet and peaceful by 'good' gun owners in the bars and taverns.
> Will the libruls then learn to stfu?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Alcohol and handguns are such a good combination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Anyone with any criminal record should not be allowed to conceal
Click to expand...

Since when do criminals obey the law?


----------



## justoffal

Donald H said:


> Likely not going to make any difference in Texas. Bad people who shoot their fellow Americans are 'good' people with guns until they start shooting people. Every gun owner is a potential killer.
> 
> Maybe one way to screen out the good people wanting to own guns from the 'bad' would be to ask them one simple question before allowing them to start building an arsenal.
> 
> *Do you intend to shoot at human silouette targets?*



Screwball.... Everybody that owns a screwdriver, a baseball bat or a golf club is a potential killer.  The rot that has infested your brain and therefore  removed your powers of reasoning.. is even more of a potential killer.


----------



## Pellinore

Ray From Cleveland said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> So people having guns do not stop trouble. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People with guns use their firearms between 1 million to 4 million times every year, depending on who's number you subscribe to.  But I'll use the politically unbiased source of the FBI, who's statistics show Americans use their firearms to stop attacks and crimes over a million times a year.
> 
> Without those people who use their guns, that would mean an additional million or so crimes would be added to the crimes we already have.  Anybody that thinks guns don't stop  trouble never looked into the subject.
Click to expand...

The pro-gun lobby has been reciting those numbers for a while (Wayne LaPierre famously invoked it after Newtown), but there is a lot LOT of debate whether the 90s-era studies that are the bases for even the lowest number you give are reliable.  There are more recent studies that put numbers in the 100s instead of the millions, so who knows.

But as long as we're going with the federal government, the FBI doesn't keep track of crimes prevented by handguns.  The farthest they go is the amount of justifiable homicides by private citizens using a gun, which in 2016 was all of 331.  They don't keep track of deterrents in which no one is killed.








						Expanded Homicide
					





					ucr.fbi.gov
				




The Bureau of Justice Statistics (DOJ) used data from the National Crime Victimization Survey (a federal study done by the Census Bureau) and came up with about 71,000 cases of defensive gun use per year from 2007-2011.


			https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf


----------



## 2aguy

The N


Pellinore said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> So people having guns do not stop trouble. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People with guns use their firearms between 1 million to 4 million times every year, depending on who's number you subscribe to.  But I'll use the politically unbiased source of the FBI, who's statistics show Americans use their firearms to stop attacks and crimes over a million times a year.
> 
> Without those people who use their guns, that would mean an additional million or so crimes would be added to the crimes we already have.  Anybody that thinks guns don't stop  trouble never looked into the subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The pro-gun lobby has been reciting those numbers for a while (Wayne LaPierre famously invoked it after Newtown), but there is a lot LOT of debate whether the 90s-era studies that are the bases for even the lowest number you give are reliable.  There are more recent studies that put numbers in the 100s instead of the millions, so who knows.
> 
> But as long as we're going with the federal government, the FBI doesn't keep track of crimes prevented by handguns.  The farthest they go is the amount of justifiable homicides by private citizens using a gun, which in 2016 was all of 331.  They don't keep track of deterrents in which no one is killed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Expanded Homicide
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ucr.fbi.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Bureau of Justice Statistics (DOJ) used data from the National Crime Victimization Survey (a federal study done by the Census Bureau) and came up with about 71,000 cases of defensive gun use per year from 2007-2011.
> 
> 
> https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf
Click to expand...


The National Crime Victimization Survey is the least reliable of all the gun studies on gun self defense.....they never ask the respondents if they used a gun for self defense, yet even then, they came out with about 80,000 defensive gun uses......without the word "Gun," in their questions......

5 The Use of Firearms to Defend Against Criminals | Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review | The National Academies Press

*Coverage*​Perhaps the most obvious explanation for the wide variation in the range of DGU estimates is that the surveys measure different variables. In the NSDS, for example, all respondents are asked the gun use questions. In contrast, the NCVS inquires only about use among persons who claim to be victims of rape, assault, burglary, personal and household larceny, and car theft. 

The NCVS excludes preemptive uses of firearms, uses that occur in crimes not screened for in the survey (e.g., commercial robbery, trespassing, and arson), and uses for crimes not revealed by respondents.1


McDowall et al. (2000) found some evidence that these differences in coverage play an important role. In an experimental survey that overrepresents firearms owners, 3,006 respondents were asked both sets of questions about defensive gun use, with random variation in which questions came first in the interview. By holding the survey sampling procedures constant (e.g., consistent confidentiality concerns and recall periods), the authors focus on the effects of questionnaire content. Overall, in this experiment, the NCVS survey items yielded three times fewer reports of defensive gun use than questionnaires that ask all respondents about defensive uses.
The McDowall et al. (2000) crossover experiment is informative and is exactly the type of methodological research that will begin to explain the sharp divergence in gun use estimates and how best to measure defensive gun use. There remains, however, much work to be done. The sample used

1  It is well known, for example, that incidents of rape and domestic violence are substantially underreported in the NCVS (National Research Council, 2003).

 ---------------

The literature speculates widely on the nature of reporting errors in the firearms use surveys.5 Some argue that reporting errors cause the estimates derived from the NCVS to be biased downward.6 Kleck and Gertz (1995) and Kleck (2001a), for example, speculate that NCVS respondents doubting the legality of their behaviors or more generally fearing government intrusion may be inclined to provide false reports to government officials conducting nonanonymous interviews. 


*Furthermore, Smith (1997) notes that NCVS respondents are not directly asked about firearms use but instead are first asked whether they defended themselves, and then they are asked to describe in what ways. Indirect questions may lead to incomplete answers.*

 6  
 6  Kleck argues that the NCVS is well designed and uses state-of-the-art survey sampling techniques for measuring victimization, but for exactly those reasons it is not well designed for measuring defensive gun use.
 -----------

_Replication and Recommendations_​As indicated above, the estimated numbers of defensive gun uses found using the NSDS have been reproduced (i.e., are statistically indistinguishable) in many other surveys. Kleck (2001a:270) suggests that replication provides ample evidence of the validity of the findings in the NSDS survey:



 The hypothesis that many Americans use guns for self-protection each year has been repeatedly subjected to empirical test, using the only feasible method for doing so, survey of representative samples of the populations. 


*The results of nineteen consecutive surveys unanimously indicate that each year huge numbers of Americans (700,000 or more) use guns for self-protection.*


 Further, the more technically sound the survey, the higher the defensive gun use estimates. The entire body of evidence cannot be rejected based on the speculation that all surveys share biases that, on net, cause an over estimation of defensive gun use frequency because, ignoring fallacious reasoning, there is no empirical evidence to support this novel theory. At this point, it is fair to say that no intellectually serious challenge has been mounted to the case for defensive gun use being very frequent.


----------



## 2aguy

Pellinore said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> So people having guns do not stop trouble. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People with guns use their firearms between 1 million to 4 million times every year, depending on who's number you subscribe to.  But I'll use the politically unbiased source of the FBI, who's statistics show Americans use their firearms to stop attacks and crimes over a million times a year.
> 
> Without those people who use their guns, that would mean an additional million or so crimes would be added to the crimes we already have.  Anybody that thinks guns don't stop  trouble never looked into the subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The pro-gun lobby has been reciting those numbers for a while (Wayne LaPierre famously invoked it after Newtown), but there is a lot LOT of debate whether the 90s-era studies that are the bases for even the lowest number you give are reliable.  There are more recent studies that put numbers in the 100s instead of the millions, so who knows.
> 
> But as long as we're going with the federal government, the FBI doesn't keep track of crimes prevented by handguns.  The farthest they go is the amount of justifiable homicides by private citizens using a gun, which in 2016 was all of 331.  They don't keep track of deterrents in which no one is killed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Expanded Homicide
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ucr.fbi.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Bureau of Justice Statistics (DOJ) used data from the National Crime Victimization Survey (a federal study done by the Census Bureau) and came up with about 71,000 cases of defensive gun use per year from 2007-2011.
> 
> 
> https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf
Click to expand...



The National Crime Victimization Survey....

The Daily Kos on why the NCVS is wrong...
Defensive Gun Use Part III - The National Crime Victimization Study

The disadvantages of this study design are:
*1) the study is not specifically designed to measure DGUs;

2) the study does not track every type of crime;

3) the study does not ask every interviewee about episodes of DGU;

4) interviewees are not specifically asked about defending themselves with a gun; 

5) follow-up studies have demonstrated that the incidence of assault (and especially assaults by relatives and non-strangers) in the NCVS is under-reported, and if crime is under-reported then so too will DGUs be under-reported;

6) respondents’ anonymity is not preserved, and some interviewees may therefore feel wary or unwilling to discuss gun use with federal government employees.*


----------



## 2aguy

Pellinore said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> So people having guns do not stop trouble. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People with guns use their firearms between 1 million to 4 million times every year, depending on who's number you subscribe to.  But I'll use the politically unbiased source of the FBI, who's statistics show Americans use their firearms to stop attacks and crimes over a million times a year.
> 
> Without those people who use their guns, that would mean an additional million or so crimes would be added to the crimes we already have.  Anybody that thinks guns don't stop  trouble never looked into the subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The pro-gun lobby has been reciting those numbers for a while (Wayne LaPierre famously invoked it after Newtown), but there is a lot LOT of debate whether the 90s-era studies that are the bases for even the lowest number you give are reliable.  There are more recent studies that put numbers in the 100s instead of the millions, so who knows.
> 
> But as long as we're going with the federal government, the FBI doesn't keep track of crimes prevented by handguns.  The farthest they go is the amount of justifiable homicides by private citizens using a gun, which in 2016 was all of 331.  They don't keep track of deterrents in which no one is killed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Expanded Homicide
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ucr.fbi.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Bureau of Justice Statistics (DOJ) used data from the National Crime Victimization Survey (a federal study done by the Census Bureau) and came up with about 71,000 cases of defensive gun use per year from 2007-2011.
> 
> 
> https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf
Click to expand...



The 2013 results of obama directing the Centers for Disease Control to review all research on guns and gun self defense....

Then, the Department of Justice Research ordered by bill clinton....

Front Matter | Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence | The National Academies Press

_Defensive Use of Guns_
Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). On the other hand, some scholars point to a radically lower estimate of only 108,000 annual defensive uses based on the National Crime Victimization Survey (Cook et al., 1997). The variation in these numbers remains a controversy in the field. The estimate of 3 million defensive uses per year is based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys. The former estimate of 108,000 is difficult to interpret because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.


======

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf


Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is di- rectly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statis- tically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. Inclusion of multiple DGUs reported by half of the 19 NSPOF respondents increases the estimate to 4.7 million DGUs. 

-----


According to these re- sults, guns are used far more often to defend against crime than to perpe- trate crime. (Firearms were used by perpetrators in 1.07 million incidents of violent crime in 1994, according to NCVS data.)


----------



## watchingfromafar

*Finally -- Texans Can Open-Carry Without Government Intervention

How many times* *has a citizen*
carrying a gun stop a person
with a gun from carrying out
*a violent crime with a gun-..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,?*

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

How many deaths have been
*caused by citizens with a gun-.,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.?

In *_*2020*_*, *_*gun*_* violence *_*killed*_* nearly 20,000 Americans,*
2020 gun violence: Even with fewer mass shootings, last year was deadliest in decades - The Washington Post

*More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows*
More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows - Scientific American
*-*


----------



## 2aguy

watchingfromafar said:


> *Finally -- Texans Can Open-Carry Without Government Intervention
> 
> How many times* *has a citizen*
> carrying a gun stop a person
> with a gun from carrying out
> 
> *a violent crime with a gun-..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,?*
> 
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> How many deaths have been
> 
> *caused by citizens with a gun-.,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.?
> -*




First...how many times a year do Americans use their legal guns to stop rapes, stabbings, beatings, robberies and murders?

According to the Centers for Disease Control....1.1 million times a year.

In 2013, President obama told the CDC to go through all gun research.....they found then that defensive uses of guns occurred between 500,000 to 3 million times a year.

These are other studies and their results....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense 

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million  averaged over  those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..


----------



## 2aguy

watchingfromafar said:


> *Finally -- Texans Can Open-Carry Without Government Intervention
> 
> How many times* *has a citizen*
> carrying a gun stop a person
> with a gun from carrying out
> 
> *a violent crime with a gun-..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,?*
> 
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> How many deaths have been
> 
> *caused by citizens with a gun-.,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.?
> 
> In *_*2020*_*, *_*gun*_* violence *_*killed*_* nearly 20,000 Americans,*
> 2020 gun violence: Even with fewer mass shootings, last year was deadliest in decades - The Washington Post
> 
> *More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows*
> More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows - Scientific American
> *-*



Effectiveness of armed citizens during mass public shootings....?

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

*Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.*
*
Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.*

BREAKING: Man Opens Fire At Oklahoma Walmart, Confronted By Armed Citizen, Report Says

Two people were killed at a Walmart in Oklahoma by a man who opened fire in the parking lot on Monday *before turning the weapon on himself after an armed citizen confronted him.
------*

*The assailant, who has not yet been identified, shot and killed a man and a woman in the parking lot and when he was “confronted by an armed citizen, he then turned the gun on himself,” The Daily Mail reported.*


----------



## 2aguy

watchingfromafar said:


> *Finally -- Texans Can Open-Carry Without Government Intervention
> 
> How many times* *has a citizen*
> carrying a gun stop a person
> with a gun from carrying out
> 
> *a violent crime with a gun-..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,?*
> 
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> How many deaths have been
> 
> *caused by citizens with a gun-.,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.?
> 
> In *_*2020*_*, *_*gun*_* violence *_*killed*_* nearly 20,000 Americans,*
> 2020 gun violence: Even with fewer mass shootings, last year was deadliest in decades - The Washington Post
> 
> *More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows*
> More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows - Scientific American
> *-*




Guns vs. rapists.....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape



> A woman using a gun is less likely to be raped and less likely to be injured during the attack....
> 
> Guns Effective Defense Against Rape
> 
> 
> However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.
> 
> I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.
> 
> *First,* a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.
> 
> *Second,* raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).
> 
> *Third,* a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.
> 
> *Fourth,* we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."
> 
> The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.


----------



## 2aguy

watchingfromafar said:


> *Finally -- Texans Can Open-Carry Without Government Intervention
> 
> How many times* *has a citizen*
> carrying a gun stop a person
> with a gun from carrying out
> *a violent crime with a gun-..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,?*
> 
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> How many deaths have been
> *caused by citizens with a gun-.,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.?
> 
> In *_*2020*_*, *_*gun*_* violence *_*killed*_* nearly 20,000 Americans,*
> 2020 gun violence: Even with fewer mass shootings, last year was deadliest in decades - The Washington Post
> 
> *More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows*
> More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows - Scientific American
> *-*




Criminals with guns in 2019 murdered 10,258 people......

Of the victims, however, 70-80% of the victims are criminals murdered by other criminals.....

That leaves about 2,051 innocent victims of gun murder......but of those, the majority are friends, family, and associates of criminals, shot during the attempted murder of the actual criminal......


----------



## 2aguy

watchingfromafar said:


> *Finally -- Texans Can Open-Carry Without Government Intervention
> 
> How many times* *has a citizen*
> carrying a gun stop a person
> with a gun from carrying out
> *a violent crime with a gun-..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,?*
> 
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> How many deaths have been
> *caused by citizens with a gun-.,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.?
> 
> In *_*2020*_*, *_*gun*_* violence *_*killed*_* nearly 20,000 Americans,*
> 2020 gun violence: Even with fewer mass shootings, last year was deadliest in decades - The Washington Post
> 
> *More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows*
> More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows - Scientific American
> *-*




Research into concealed carry and crime...

https://www.supremecourt.gov/Docket...144549202_Amicus brief SWD 7.19.2021 2300.pdf


https://www.jstor.org/stable/1229604

1977-2000
1.5%-2.3% reductions in murder rate
2-3 billion dollars benefit in first 5 years.


Wilson....

Appendix A Dissent--James Q. Wilson | Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review | The National Academies Press

Lott argued that murder rates decline after the adoption of RTC laws even after allowing for the effect of other variables that affect crime rates. The committee has confirmed this finding as is evident in its Tables 6-1, 6-2, 6-5 (first row), 6-6 (first row), and 6-7 (first two rows). This confirmation includes both the original data period (1977-1992) used by Lott and data that run through 2000. In view of the confirmation of the findings that shall-issue laws drive down the murder rate, it is hard for me to understand why these claims are called “fragile.”
-----
In addition, with only a few exceptions, the studies cited in Chapter 6, including those by Lott’s critics, do not show that the passage of RTC laws drives the crime rates up (as might be the case if one supposed that newly armed people went about looking for someone to shoot). The direct evidence that such shooting sprees occur is nonexistent. The indirect evidence, as found in papers by Black and Nagin and Ayres and Donohue [cited in Chapter 6], is controversial. Indeed, the Ayres and Donohue paper shows that there was a “statistically significant downward shift in the trend” of the murder rate (Chapter 6, page 135). This suggests to me that for people interested in RTC laws, the best evidence we have is that they impose no costs but may confer benefits. That conclusion might be very useful to authorities who contemplate the enactment of RTC laws.
----
In sum, I find that the evidence presented by Lott and his supporters suggests that RTC laws do in fact help drive down the murder rate, though their effect on other crimes is ambiguous.

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/323313

Abstract​In 1997, John Lott and David Mustard published an important paper in which they found that right‐to‐carry concealed weapons laws reduce violent crime. Although Lott and Mustard appear to do all possible variations of the analysis, a closer reading reveals that the study might suffer from several possibly important errors. I reestimate the model and check for incorrect functional form, omitted variables, and possible second‐order bias in the _t_‐ratios. Lott and Mustard's basic conclusions are generally robust with respect to these potential econometric problems. Overall, right‐to‐carry concealed weapons laws tend to reduce violent crime. The effect on property crime is more uncertain. I find evidence that these laws also reduce burglary.

Do Right to Carry Laws Increase Violent Crime? A Comment on Donohue, Aneja, and Weber · Econ Journal Watch : shall-issue, gun control

Nevertheless, when we use the synthetic control model, we find that the claim that RTC laws increase either murder or violent crime is not supported. We find states where crime increased after the implementation of the RTC law, and we find more states in which crime decreased after the law.

Mustard, D. 2001. The impact of gun laws on police deaths. The Journal of Law & Economics, 44(S2): 635-657..

After enactment of the right-to-carry laws, states exhibit a reduced likelihood of having a felonious police death rate and slightly lower rates of police deaths.
-------
Allowing law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons does not endanger the lives of officers and may help reduce their risk of being killed.

(PDF) Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes—Only a Count Analysis Can Say
 We find that the effects of such laws vary across crime categories, U.S. states, and time and that such laws appear to have statistically significant deterrent effects on the numbers of reported murders, rapes, and robberies. Copyright 2001 by the University of Chicago.

EconPapers: Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness
 Overall, right-to-carry concealed weapons laws tend to reduce violent crime. The effect on property crime is more uncertain. I find evidence that these laws also reduce burglary. Copyright 2001 by the University of Chicago.

https://econjwatch.org/articles/the-debate-on-shall-issue-laws
Our analysis, as well as Ayres and Donohue’s when projected beyond a five-year span, indicates that shall-issue laws decrease crime and the costs of crime. Purists in statistical analysis object with some cause to some of methods employed both by Ayres and Donohue and by us. But our paper upgrades Ayres and Donohue, so, until the next study comes along, our paper should neutralize Ayres and Donohue’s “more guns, more crime” conclusion.
https://ideas.repec.org/a/bap/journl/140103.html
his paper reports a replication of their basic findings and some corresponding robustness checks, which reveal a serious omitted variable problem. Once corrected for omitted variables, the most robust result, confirmed using both county and state data, is that RTC laws significantly reduce murder. There is no robust, consistent evidence that RTC laws have any significant effect on other violent crimes, including assault. There is some weak evidence that RTC laws increase robbery and assault while decreasing rape. Given that the victim costs of murder and rape are much higher than the costs of robbery and assault, the evidence shows that RTC laws are socially beneficial.


----------



## 2aguy

watchingfromafar said:


> *Finally -- Texans Can Open-Carry Without Government Intervention
> 
> How many times* *has a citizen*
> carrying a gun stop a person
> with a gun from carrying out
> *a violent crime with a gun-..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,?*
> 
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> How many deaths have been
> *caused by citizens with a gun-.,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.?
> 
> In *_*2020*_*, *_*gun*_* violence *_*killed*_* nearly 20,000 Americans,*
> 2020 gun violence: Even with fewer mass shootings, last year was deadliest in decades - The Washington Post
> 
> *More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows*
> More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows - Scientific American
> *-*




Guns save lives......guns save lots of lives.......more than criminals take when they use guns illegally to commit murder...

Lives saved....based on research?  By law abiding gun owners using guns to stop criminals?



Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct

*that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—*



Money saved from people not being beaten, raped, murdered, robbed?.......





*So figuring that the average DGU saves one half of a person’s life—as “gun violence” predominantly affects younger demographics—that gives us $3.465 million per half life.*
*
Putting this all together, we find that the monetary benefit of guns (by way of DGUs) is roughly $1.02 trillion per year. That’s trillion. With a ‘T’.

I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million). But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.

When compared to the (inflation adjusted from 2002) $127.5 billion ‘cost’ of gun violence calculated by by our Ludwig-Cook buddies, guns save a little more than eight times what they “cost.”

Which, I might add, is completely irrelevant since “the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right — subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility.”
*
*So even taking Motherboard’s own total and multiplying it by 100, the benefits to society of civilian gun ownership dwarf the associated costs.*


----------



## Donald H

2aguy said:


> Guns vs. rapists.....
> 
> Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


In 2013, President obama told the CDC to go through all gun research.....they found then that defensive uses of guns occurred between 500,000 to 3 million times a year.

That's a solid indictment of America on gun use and abuse.
And supposedly that doesn't even count the bad guys!

No wonder Americans refer to their country's cities as 'shitholes'. 

The entire country is awash in gun violence!

And so what to do? Nothing!
Nothing is possible anymore.


----------



## watchingfromafar

2aguy said:


> First...how many times a year do Americans use their legal guns to stop rapes, stabbings, beatings, robberies and murders?


I could be nice and just say you do not understand the topic or I could be gentile and just say you be a gun killing trumpite or just say it like it is.,,. Stay away from me or else!!!

*Tell Me Oh Wise One.*..how many times a year do Americans use their legal guns to stop rapes, stabbings, beatings, robberies and murders
*how many times?*
-


----------



## 2aguy

watchingfromafar said:


> I could be nice and just say you do not understand the topic or I could be gentile and just say you be a gun killing trumpite or just say it like it is.,,. Stay away from me or else!!!
> 
> *Tell Me Oh Wise One.*..how many times a year do Americans use their legal guns to stop rapes, stabbings, beatings, robberies and murders?
> -




1.1 million times a year according to the centers for disease control....other research?

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense 

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million  averaged over  those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..


----------



## watchingfromafar

2aguy said:


> Research into concealed carry and crime...
> 
> https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/20/20-843/184397/20210720144549202_Amicus brief SWD 7.19.2021 2300.pdf
> *Given that the victim costs of murder and rape are much higher than the costs of robbery and assault, the evidence shows that RTC laws are socially beneficial.*


-


----------



## watchingfromafar

My bet is 98% of Republicons favor open carry laws
My bet is 97% of the 98% above are white males, balding and have an IQ score of 65 or less & they are racists
-


----------



## 2aguy

watchingfromafar said:


> My bet is 98% of Republicons favor open carry laws
> My bet is 97% of the 98% above are white males, balding and have an IQ score of 65 or less & they are racists
> -




The racism in the United States comes from the democrat party, a political party created by slave owners....


----------



## watchingfromafar

2aguy said:


> The racism in the United States comes from the democrat party, a political party created by slave owners....



I can tell you are a very smart balding old man.
So I must test your intellect to see if you are deserving of my time.
Just answer the following-
.,.,.,.
Read the following statement quickly, counting all the letters F in the statement:

FINISHED FILES ARE THE RESULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF MANY YEARS.
How many did you find?
Sweet pee, you have 5 minutes to answer
I'm giving you some space, it is 12:36PM
@ 12:41 you looose
its 12:57 bye baldeee
-


----------



## freyasman

watchingfromafar said:


> *Finally -- Texans Can Open-Carry Without Government Intervention
> 
> How many times* *has a citizen*
> carrying a gun stop a person
> with a gun from carrying out
> *a violent crime with a gun-..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,?*
> 
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> How many deaths have been
> *caused by citizens with a gun-.,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.?
> 
> In *_*2020*_*, *_*gun*_* violence *_*killed*_* nearly 20,000 Americans,*
> 2020 gun violence: Even with fewer mass shootings, last year was deadliest in decades - The Washington Post
> 
> *More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows*
> More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows - Scientific American
> *-*


Well that's all bullshit.


----------



## freyasman

Donald H said:


> In 2013, President obama told the CDC to go through all gun research.....they found then that defensive uses of guns occurred between 500,000 to 3 million times a year.
> 
> That's a solid indictment of America on gun use and abuse.
> And supposedly that doesn't even count the bad guys!
> 
> No wonder Americans refer to their country's cities as 'shitholes'.
> 
> The entire country is awash in gun violence!
> 
> And so what to do? Nothing!
> Nothing is possible anymore.


No it isn't. 

You're just a really fucked up person who has something wrong with him.


----------



## freyasman

watchingfromafar said:


> My bet is 98% of Republicons favor open carry laws
> My bet is 97% of the 98% above are white males, balding and have an IQ score of 65 or less & they are racists
> -


My bet is that you're wanting to do harm to those people and are pissed off and frustrated that you can't do so without getting shot.


----------



## watchingfromafar

freyasman said:


> My bet is


My bet is you do not have a dime of your own so why would I make a bet with you--?

-


----------



## watchingfromafar

freyasman said:


> You're just a really fucked up person who has something wrong with him.



These wacko's can not even write good English. But since you and I have been such good friends for so long I am going to correct your mistakes and re-post your comment below-- "note" edited my me



freyasman said:


> I'm just a really fucked up person who has something wrong with me.



The truth will set you free
-
btw: no need to thank me cause we be such good friends and all
*Humor is required to appreciate this post*​


----------



## freyasman

watchingfromafar said:


> My bet is you do not have a dime of your own so why would I make a bet with you--?
> 
> -


I'll have a few bucks when I'm done harvesting your organs.
I may even polish up your skull and make a goblet out of it and sell it on Ebay, lol.


----------



## Likkmee

Donald H said:


> The proof of this being a wise move for Texas will start to be proven no later than Friday night!
> 
> Then on Saturday morning Texans will wake up hearing the news of how the night was kept so quiet and peaceful by 'good' gun owners in the bars and taverns.
> Will the libruls then learn to stfu?


Them librulz is sykotical
They'll be on a mission to get their fucking brains blown out. IT DA GUNZ FAULT !!
Who is that masked,masked, masked man with the 44 hole in the forehead ?


----------

