# LED lights that are good enough to replace incandescents



## Old Rocks (May 29, 2011)

Switch Shows Off Liquid-Cooled LED Bulb Cleantech News and Analysis

Switchs first bulbs  it launched a 100-watt incandescent equivalent at Lightfair, and also has developed 40-watt, 65-watt, 75-watt equivalents  are supposed to go on sale later this year. An important thing to note about the Switch bulbs is that they are also supposed to retail for under $20 for the 40-watt, and will likely be far less expensive than the current LED bulbs on the market that can cost as high as $40 to $50 per bulb.

That price point gives the Switch LED bulb a lot quicker pay off in energy savings to the buyer. Switch says its bulbs use 85 less energy than incandescent bulbs and the return on investment is about a year. This could be a game-changer in the industry  if consumers actually respond and start buying these when they come out.


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## sparky (May 29, 2011)

Rocks, 
excuse me if i missed it but, i'd like to find the lumens/watt ratio in there.....


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## Mr. H. (May 29, 2011)

Cooled with "secret sauce". Watch out, McDonald's.
They are neat looking. 
These type of bulbs will untimately lead to the demise of flourescents.


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## Old Rocks (May 29, 2011)

Yep.


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## Ernie S. (May 29, 2011)

Mr. H. said:


> Cooled with "secret sauce". Watch out, McDonald's.
> They are neat looking.
> These type of bulbs will untimately lead to the demise of flourescents.



Whatever the coolant, you can bet it's toxic and if you break one, you'll have to call the men in the haz-mat suites.


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## uscitizen (May 29, 2011)

Ernie S. said:


> Mr. H. said:
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> > Cooled with "secret sauce". Watch out, McDonald's.
> ...



yeah prolly like one is really supposed to do when a fluid leaks from your cat.
Antifreeze?  Motor oil?  Brake fluid?  Freon? Transmission fluid?
How many million gallons of auto fluids leak out each year?


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## xsited1 (May 29, 2011)

LED lights have their place.

Energy-saving stoplights blamed in crashes - US news - Life - msnbc.com


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## sparky (May 30, 2011)

check out the heat sinks>


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## Skull Pilot (May 30, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Switch Shows Off Liquid-Cooled LED Bulb Cleantech News and Analysis
> 
> Switch&#8217;s first bulbs &#8212; it launched a 100-watt incandescent equivalent at Lightfair, and also has developed 40-watt, 65-watt, 75-watt equivalents &#8212; are supposed to go on sale later this year. An important thing to note about the Switch bulbs is that they are also supposed to retail for under $20 for the 40-watt, and will likely be far less expensive than the current LED bulbs on the market that can cost as high as $40 to $50 per bulb.
> 
> That price point gives the Switch LED bulb a lot quicker pay off in energy savings to the buyer. Switch says its bulbs use 85 less energy than incandescent bulbs and the return on investment is about a year. This could be a game-changer in the industry &#8212; if consumers actually respond and start buying these when they come out.



At last count I had 35 bulbs in my house.  At 50 bucks a bulb I would have to pay$1750 to replace them all.  My current electric bill is under 100 a month so you're asking me to shell out more than I pay in a year to replace all my bulbs.  I'm already really good about running my lights.  I only light the room I'm in and I usually use dimmed settings unless I'm reading and then I only use one reading lamp on high.  

BTW Unless you're running all the lights in your house for 8 hours a day, lighting is not what what accounts for the bulk of an electric bill.  You'd be better off upgrading your fridge, range,water heater, washer, dryer and Ac units.


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## AVG-JOE (May 30, 2011)

uscitizen said:


> Ernie S. said:
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## sparky (May 30, 2011)

> At 50 bucks a bulb I would have to pay$1750 to replace them all.



i can do $45 each, a one time offer, comes with a propellor beanie....


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## AVG-JOE (May 30, 2011)

Skull Pilot said:


> Old Rocks said:
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> > Switch Shows Off Liquid-Cooled LED Bulb Cleantech News and Analysis
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Do you remember the first hand-held calculator?  It would add, subtract, multiply and divide.  It weighed almost 8 oz and it cost $150.

Now they weigh & cost next to nothing if that's all you need it to do, and if you are willing to drop $50 you can get one that does everything but the dishes.

Purchasing new technology not 'cause its worth it but 'cause it's  is one of the functions of the wealthy in our style of market economy.  The rest of us need patience and the political flexibility to refrain from allowing the marketers of the current technology to flex their political muscle in an attempt to conserve the status quo by protecting the market of the old technology by use of bullshit tax breaks and/or undue regulation.

  Can you imagine how the streets would smell if the Horse and Buggy Industry lobbies had been as politically well-heeled and able to protect _their_ status quo like the oil and auto lobbies of today can?  

Although $20 is still out of MY league for bulbs, I for one am thrilled at the reduction from $50 to $20 with this step and looking forward to the next.  I'm also thrilled that our economy supports individuals and industries that are singing "Hallelujah" at the new $20 price.  Their support will help the new technology to compete and strive for a price point that WILL get my attention.


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## konradv (May 31, 2011)

Ernie S. said:


> Mr. H. said:
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> > Cooled with "secret sauce". Watch out, McDonald's.
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Whatever the topic, you can bet that some will continue to spread lies.  

snopes.com: CFL Mercury Light Bulbs


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## Mr. H. (May 31, 2011)

AVG-JOE said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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I paid $80 for my first calculator back in high school (early 70's). I had a part time job and just had to have one. My physics teacher finally told me it wasn't necessary to carry my answers to the 12th decimal LOL. 
But yeah- that's all it did - 4 basic functions.


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## Old Rocks (Jun 1, 2011)

Solid state technology is one that can have breakthroughs so quickly that prices go down in orders of magnitude. As with the hand held calculators. Think of the cost of the original cell phones and their capability. And what you can get for $400 today.

Or, much more recently, the flat screen tv's. The first one I saw was only 40" and cost something like $10,000. Fry's just had a 60" LED on sale for $1200.

And, if you have a place in the home, like the kitchen or living room, where the light is on most of the time it is dark, the $20 price would represent a savings, for most of the LEDs last for 50,000 hrs, and operate at a magnitude of increased efficiencies compared to incandescents.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jun 1, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Switch Shows Off Liquid-Cooled LED Bulb Cleantech News and Analysis
> 
> Switchs first bulbs  it launched a 100-watt incandescent equivalent at Lightfair, and also has developed 40-watt, 65-watt, 75-watt equivalents  are supposed to go on sale later this year. An important thing to note about the Switch bulbs is that they are also supposed to retail for under $20 for the 40-watt, and will likely be far less expensive than the current LED bulbs on the market that can cost as high as $40 to $50 per bulb.
> 
> That price point gives the Switch LED bulb a lot quicker pay off in energy savings to the buyer. Switch says its bulbs use 85 less energy than incandescent bulbs and the return on investment is about a year. This could be a game-changer in the industry  if consumers actually respond and start buying these when they come out.



The light from my 2 LED bulbs totally sucks, its worse than CFL bulb light.

It wont replace incandescents until they make the light they give off better.


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## Old Rocks (Jun 2, 2011)

The first LED flashlight that I had gave off a weak blue light, it's only saving grace was that it was small, and the batteries lasted forever. The one I presently use at work is about 4 inches long, with a 3/4 inch body and about a 1 1/4 inch head. It is as bright or brighter than a car headlight, makes a nice clean white light, and the 3 v lithium batterys last about 3 hours.

The technology is changing even as we post.


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## Mr. H. (Jun 2, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> The first LED flashlight that I had gave off a weak blue light, it's only saving grace was that it was small, and the batteries lasted forever. The one I presently use at work is about 4 inches long, with a 3/4 inch body and about a 1 1/4 inch head. It is as bright or brighter than a car headlight, makes a nice clean white light, and the 3 v lithium batterys last about 3 hours.
> 
> The technology is changing even as we post.



So, if we stop posting will technology stagnate?

The Goodyear blimp uses over 7,000 such lights. They call it the LED zeppelin.


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## syrenn (Jun 2, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Switch Shows Off Liquid-Cooled LED Bulb Cleantech News and Analysis
> 
> Switchs first bulbs  it launched a 100-watt incandescent equivalent at Lightfair, and also has developed 40-watt, 65-watt, 75-watt equivalents  are supposed to go on sale later this year. An important thing to note about the Switch bulbs is that they are also supposed to retail for under $20 for the 40-watt, and will likely be far less expensive than the current LED bulbs on the market that can cost as high as $40 to $50 per bulb.
> 
> That price point gives the Switch LED bulb a lot quicker pay off in energy savings to the buyer. Switch says its bulbs use 85 less energy than incandescent bulbs and the return on investment is about a year. This could be a game-changer in the industry  if consumers actually respond and start buying these when they come out.



It says nothing about the quality of light. So far i have found NOTHING that has the warmth of light from a standard incandescent light bulb. 

The light these energy efficient things produce is a blue harsh light that i find distasteful. I don't care what the price is the light itself has to pass muster.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jun 2, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> The first LED flashlight that I had gave off a weak blue light, it's only saving grace was that it was small, and the batteries lasted forever. The one I presently use at work is about 4 inches long, with a 3/4 inch body and about a 1 1/4 inch head. It is as bright or brighter than a car headlight, makes a nice clean white light, and the 3 v lithium batterys last about 3 hours.
> 
> The technology is changing even as we post.



I still have my blue light "shake it up" flashlight with the LED bulb.  

The light on the LEDs i just got is better than that but its still not good enough to replace incandescent or CFL bulbs (some of which have better light now but still haven't found ones as good as incandescent light)


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## CrusaderFrank (Jun 2, 2011)

Mr. H. said:


> Old Rocks said:
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> > The first LED flashlight that I had gave off a weak blue light, it's only saving grace was that it was small, and the batteries lasted forever. The one I presently use at work is about 4 inches long, with a 3/4 inch body and about a 1 1/4 inch head. It is as bright or brighter than a car headlight, makes a nice clean white light, and the 3 v lithium batterys last about 3 hours.
> ...



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3CYOGFMe1o]YouTube - &#x202a;Led Zeppelin : I Can&#39;t Quit You Baby - Live Royal Albert Hall 1970&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]


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## Old Rocks (Jun 5, 2011)

Interesting point here. So you 'survivalists' are all touting the great aspects of the present incandescents. Yet, if there is a major catastrophe that takes civilization a couple of decades to climb back up from, you are going to be out of light, while the people with the LEDs will still have usable lights.


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## flacaltenn (Jun 13, 2011)

sparky said:


> Rocks,
> excuse me if i missed it but, i'd like to find the lumens/watt ratio in there.....



Cree (where Obama was sounding like Jeffrey Immelt today) sets the pace on efficiency. Realistically, it's 150 Lumens/watt at the LEDs (not counting optics or power supply efficiencies.. But it's quickly going towards 180 or 200.. 

Old Rocks:

Happens that I'm involved in this right now. NO WAY -- you need liquid cooling (or an f'in fan) for a SINGLE bulb replacement at that wattage. See the heatsinks that someone posted. It's a wrong-headed marketing ploy. The heatsinks are not the problem. THe REAL problem is having a switching power supply in every dam bulb. 

And YES -- I agree about the blue wavelengths. They are disturbing. It can all be warmer light but at less efficiency. It WILL happen. Everyone will be happy. But the leftists will STILL make energy RARE and EXPENSIVE instead of PLENTIFUL and CHEAP. And we'll have the govt nagging us about turning off the lights rather than our parents..


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## Baruch Menachem (Jun 13, 2011)

I thought LED lights were cool, so I bought one.    It was supposed to be the equivlent of a 100 wat bulb


All it is good for is a night light.  

But I still like the tech.   And I think, given how fast the tech has moved over the last 5 years, that we might have something reasonable in three or four years.  But I won't be an early adopter.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jun 14, 2011)

Baruch Menachem said:


> I thought LED lights were cool, so I bought one.    It was supposed to be the equivlent of a 100 wat bulb
> 
> 
> All it is good for is a night light.
> ...



Yeah i was pissed when I turned the one I bought on, waste of money to buy them in their current state.


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## Ringel05 (Jun 14, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Interesting point here. So you 'survivalists' are all touting the great aspects of the present incandescents. Yet, if there is a major catastrophe that takes civilization a couple of decades to climb back up from, you are going to be out of light, while the people with the LEDs will still have usable lights.



Obviously you don't get it.  In a free market society when someone is attempting to replace one product with another the replacement product has to be as good if not better than the old technology in functionality, not just savings, estimated or actual, money or energy.  
In this case the lumens need to replicate or exceed that produced by the current (incandescent) technology for people to consider such items as viable replacements.  If I wanted candle light I'd buy a box of candles, they're cheaper. 
You can advocate saving the planet all day long but that alone won't sell the product to the vast majority.  Make it work the way people want it to work and they'll sell like hot cakes.


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## boedicca (Jun 14, 2011)

The issue is not if LED are "good enough" to replace incandescents - it's who should decide:  the government or the consumer.

All the Government has done is drive more job offshore and made a simple household item much more expensive.


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## daveman (Jun 14, 2011)

Ringel05 said:


> Old Rocks said:
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> > Interesting point here. So you 'survivalists' are all touting the great aspects of the present incandescents. Yet, if there is a major catastrophe that takes civilization a couple of decades to climb back up from, you are going to be out of light, while the people with the LEDs will still have usable lights.
> ...


Or you can just have the government mandate the purchase of the new technology.


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## Ringel05 (Jun 14, 2011)

daveman said:


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No thank you tovaritch.


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## dilloduck (Jun 14, 2011)

Light pollution---when will it ever end ?
light pollution map - Google Search

Oh the huge manatee !


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## hortysir (Jun 14, 2011)

My restaurant's dining room is lit by LED and CFL 50/50.
$950 savings over last May - $12,000 savings for the region


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## daveman (Jun 14, 2011)

Ringel05 said:


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In Soviet Amerika, light bulb choose _you!_


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## daveman (Jun 14, 2011)

hortysir said:


> My restaurant's dining room is lit by LED and CFL 50/50.
> $950 savings over last May - $12,000 savings for the region



There's a little restaurant down the road that used to be an elementary school.  The guy turned the gymnasium into the dining room.  He's got it lit with strings of white LED Christmas lights.  It's pretty cool.


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## hortysir (Jun 14, 2011)

daveman said:


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Our LEDs are recessed spots  Positioned over tables and spaced in walking areas. CFLs hang over the tables.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jun 14, 2011)

boedicca said:


> The issue is not if LED are "good enough" to replace incandescents - it's who should decide:  the government or the consumer.
> 
> All the Government has done is drive more job offshore and made a simple household item much more expensive.



and as a consumer I will not buy a 2nd LED light bulb anytime soon....they are really horrible at lighting up a room, way worse than the first gen CFL bulbs were.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jun 14, 2011)

hortysir said:


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they are PERFECTLY suited for spots, like your using them, but thats about it.

Im sure they will make these things better and when they do im sure i'll buy some because I know that over time they will cost me less $$$ and im frugal like that.


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## Ringel05 (Jun 14, 2011)

hortysir said:


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What I'd like to do is replace my halogens with LEDs but again there's the lumin issue, I need strong light where the halogens are, night light brightness won't cut it.  
I have started to see prices dropping quite a bit now on the LEDs.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jun 14, 2011)

Ringel05 said:


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I just cant wait for them to have good light, i'll pay 40 bucks a bulb for the energy savings and lifespan alone if they can just get the lighting better.


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## daveman (Jun 14, 2011)

hortysir said:


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This guy built gazebos in the gym.  It's pretty cool.


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## hortysir (Jun 14, 2011)

Sounds very cool!


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## daveman (Jun 14, 2011)

hortysir said:


> Sounds very cool!


Well, the food could be better.  But the atmosphere is nice, and he has live music.  Pretty good selection of antiques for sale, too.  

What kind of food do you serve?


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## hortysir (Jun 14, 2011)

daveman said:


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Hmm.....??? Seafood??
I have this pesky electronic communications agreement thingy.

We were recently named in the top 100 companies to work for.........
We're based out of Orlando, FL and have +/- 180,000 employees.
Mine is the flagship company of all the concepts we own, with almost 700 locations.

If I was to say the name of the restaurant, then my username would be connected to that post forever and I'd have to put a disclaimer in all of my posts, from here on out,  that my views aren't the views of _______


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## daveman (Jun 14, 2011)

hortysir said:


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Understood.  And I like your restaurant.


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## Old Rocks (Jun 14, 2011)

hortysir said:


> My restaurant's dining room is lit by LED and CFL 50/50.
> $950 savings over last May - $12,000 savings for the region



That is exactly what will bring about even  better LEDs.

My company paid $50 for the little flashlight that I use when inspecting the equipment. 

NEW Streamlight Scorpion C4 LED Flashlight from SWPS.com

I bet in 5 years you can get it for $10.


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## Toronado3800 (Jun 14, 2011)

daveman said:


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Sir, I suggest we think about human nature in this case.

You have the government to thank for pine trees growing in st louis.  Yup.

You have the government to thank for the switch to unleaded gas.

The discussion is if the technology is presently viable.


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## whitehall (Jun 14, 2011)

Say what? I get a 40w light bulb at Walmart for about >60 cents and you tell me it's good news that the "new" stuff will cost (less than?) $20.00 per 40w  bulb? The world is upside down under radical environmentalism.


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## Old Rocks (Jun 14, 2011)

Whitey, did you bother the read Hortysir's post concerning the amount of money that the use of energy saving light technology had saved their restuarant? Over the space of a couple of years, if your 40w bulb is used often, the cost of the energy and replacement bulbs will exceed the cost of the LED and the energy it uses.

Pure economics, for those that can think past next week.


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## Old Rocks (Jun 14, 2011)

Toronado3800 said:


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Presently viable for some uses. Soon to be viable for most.


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## daveman (Jun 14, 2011)

Toronado3800 said:


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We also have the government to thank for Agent Orange.

We also have the government to thank for MTBE.

We also have the government to thank for 14 trillion dollars of debt.

The government does dumb things.  Don't pretend everything it does it good.


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## JWBooth (Jun 14, 2011)

Liquid cooled and expensive. Who could ask for more?


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## Toronado3800 (Jun 14, 2011)

daveman said:


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The government does plenty wrong.  No homer here.  Lets keep the FBI NSA & CIA then create a Deparment for Homeland Security for example.

Seems like by the time we are getting rid of slavery or mandating a switch of paint bases we generally get things right.

What is your purchase point?  Dollar wise.

At about $5 I switched to cfl's.  There are even three way ones now.  Some freakishly colored blue fellas.  I think our wives planned their make up colors during the days of or expecting the old dingy soft yellow lights.  That must be why the discontent with the new colors.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jun 15, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Whitey, did you bother the read Hortysir's post concerning the amount of money that the use of energy saving light technology had saved their restuarant? Over the space of a couple of years, if your 40w bulb is used often, the cost of the energy and replacement bulbs will exceed the cost of the LED and the energy it uses.
> 
> Pure economics, for those that can think past next week.



I can't believe im going to say this but Old Rocks is right about that.

The light may suck but, over time, the LED bulb will cost a lot less than a 40w incandescent.


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## daveman (Jun 15, 2011)

Toronado3800 said:


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My house is about 50/50 incandescent and CFLs.  Some of the CFLs take a few minutes to come up to full brightness.  I don't think I have any new incan bulbs lying around.

I have one LED light, a nightlight.  It's not bad -- fair amount of light versus a 4W incandescent, and it's a lot more rugged.  The 4W incan bulbs always blew when you looked at them wrong.


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