# Illegals, Drugs, Smuggling rapidly taking control of our Nation's Southwest border.



## Wolfmoon (Jan 26, 2009)

Based on a review of the data, interviews conducted and other information collected, Subcommittee staff finds that:


1. Drug trafficking organizations and human smuggling networks are proliferating and strengthening their control of key corridors along our Nations Southwest border.


2. The Mexican drug cartels wield substantial control over the U.S.-Mexican border. Law enforcement on the border agree that very little crosses the respective cartel territories, or plazas, along the Southwest border without cartel knowledge, approval, and financial remuneration.


3. These criminal organizations and networks are highly sophisticated and
organized, operating with military style weapons and technology, utilizing
counter surveillance techniques and acting aggressively against both law
enforcement and competitors.


4. Drug trafficking organizations, human smuggling networks and U.S. based gangs are increasingly coordinating with one another to achieve their objectives.


5. Federal, State and local law enforcement report new and ever-increasing levels of ruthlessness and violence associated with these criminal organizations, which are increasingly spilling across the border into the United States and moving into local communities.


6. Each year hundreds of illegal aliens from countries known to harbor terrorists or promote terrorism are routinely encountered and apprehended attempting to enter the U.S. illegally.


7. The existing resources of the U.S. Border Patrol and local law enforcement must continue to be enhanced to counter the cartels and the criminal networks they leverage to circumvent law enforcement.

HOUSE COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
Page 6.

http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdf


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## strollingbones (Jan 26, 2009)

legalize all drugs...put monies from the so called "drug war" into other things...


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 26, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> legalize all drugs...put monies from the so called "drug war" into other things...


 
*While your at it why don't you legalize murder too.*


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## michiganFats (Jan 26, 2009)

At this point, I don't think this is an issue for the Border Patrol. It should be handled by the military.


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 26, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> legalize all drugs...put monies from the so called "drug war" into other things...


 
*Mexico tried to legalize drugs once.  The bill didn't pass.* 


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,193616,00.html

The bill says criminal charges will no longer be brought for possession of up to 25 milligrams of heroin, five grams of marijuana  about one-fifth of an ounce, or about four joints  and half a gram of cocaine  about half the standard street-size quantity, which is enough for several lines of the drug.

"No charges will be brought against ... addicts or consumers who are found in possession of any narcotic for personal use," the Senate bill reads. It also lays out allowable quantities for a large array of other drugs, including LSD, MDA, ecstasy  about two pills' worth  and amphetamines.

Some of the amounts are eye-popping: Mexicans would be allowed to possess a kilogram (2.2 pounds) of peyote, the button-sized hallucinogenic cactus used in some native Indian religious ceremonies.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,194552,00.html

MEXICO CITY  The issue of drug decriminalization split Mexican politics in strange ways on Saturday, after President Vicente Fox *refused* to sign a bill that would have eliminated criminal penalties for possession of small amounts of drugs.

Possession of marijuana is currently a crime, punishable by 10 to 16 months in prison, unless a suspect can claim he is an addict or it is a first offense involving a small amount. However, few people are currently prosecuted under the law.

Protest organizers described comments by U.S. officials asking Mexico to reconsider the bill as a *violation* of Mexico's sovereignty.


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## Amanda (Jan 26, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> > legalize all drugs...put monies from the so called "drug war" into other things...
> ...



How do you equate someone using drugs to murder? Or do you also feel this way about alcohol and cigarettes?

And those quantities of drugs in your other post are really, really small. I'm not really into drugs, but I've been around it and no one sets out for a night of partying with basically just enough for themselves, just for that night.

I think it's a tragedy when people ruin their lives with drugs or alcohol or any other preventable cause but I think if we're going to have freedom we should have the freedom to use whatever substances we want too.


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 26, 2009)

Amanda said:


> Wolfmoon said:
> 
> 
> > strollingbones said:
> ...


 
*Perhaps, you would like the freedom to sell your own children too, like they do in other lawless countries.*


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## Amanda (Jan 26, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> Amanda said:
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> > Wolfmoon said:
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I can see you're going to be a lot of fun to talk to.


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## 007 (Jan 26, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> Based on a review of the data, interviews conducted and other information collected, Subcommittee staff finds that:
> 
> http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdf



This a problem. A HUGE problem, and it's being ignored just like social security. Problem is if it's ignored for too long our government will just throw up their hands once it's too big to solve and go, "oh well, it's too late to do anything now," just like they're doing with all the illegal aliens and social security. But hey, when it comes to wasting money, NOBODY can do a better job than our government. This BAIL OUT business is pure bull shit!

I'm disgusted with America, for a bunch of reasons, but government tops the list in bold letters. I'm waiting for another Civil War. I just hope it's in my life time, and I'm able to participate.


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 26, 2009)

Amanda said:


> I can see you're going to be a lot of fun to talk to.


 
*How many more drugs do you need Amanda, to come into the United States? Would you like your babies to have access to legal drugs? How could you stop children from obtaining them?*

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*

*Below is a summary of Fiscal Year* *2005 *

*Federal drug seizures of illegal drug crossing our southern border.*


_(A kilograms is 2.2. Pounds)_


Cocaine: 222,714 kilograms

Marijuana: 1,162,509 kilograms

Methamphetamine: 5,470 kilograms

Source: El Paso Intelligence Center, National Seizure System

Federal law enforcement estimates that 10 percent to 30 percent of illegal aliens are actually apprehended and 10 percent to 20 percent of drugs are seized. Therefore, *in 2005, as many as 10 to 4 million illegal aliens crossed into the United States*; and as much as 2.2 to 1.1 million kilograms of cocaine and 11.6 to 5.8 million kilograms of marijuana entered the United States.


HOUSE COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
Page 3.

http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Inve...der-Report.pdf


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## Amanda (Jan 26, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> > I can see you're going to be a lot of fun to talk to.
> ...



Here's the long and the short of it: If you want to talk and discuss, great, that's why I'm here, if you want to jump wildly from one topic to some asinine conclusion based on nothing more than your personal bias on the issue, I'm not interested. I'm not going to the wacky Right masturbate anymore than I will the wacky Left.

How many more drugs? It's irrelevant.

The drugs will stop coming when there stops being a demand. The illegals will stop coming when they can't get jobs. It's a supply and demand thing. 

I had access to just about every kind of drug there was, I tried a few things, decided it wasn't for me and moved on. This is how I know that it's possible that everyone that comes into contact doesn't have to become a junkie. When I have kids I will teach them my values and they will make their own decisions. As a parent there's not much else you _can_ do. If you think there is I would like to politely suggest that you're only fooling yourself.

If you want to talk, please turn down the alarmist tone, use a normal font size, and only pull out bold for emphasis, I will NOT bother to try to talk to someone that is presenting themselves as a wingnut. There are people here that like name calling and yelling, etc, so if that's the kind of experience you want then fire away, I'm sure some one will engage.


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 26, 2009)

Amanda said:


> Wolfmoon said:
> 
> 
> > Amanda said:
> ...


 
*What are you like twelve now Amanda that's what your picture looks like.?  *


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## dilloduck (Jan 26, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> Amanda said:
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> 
> > Wolfmoon said:
> ...



You're gonna regret that


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## xsited1 (Jan 26, 2009)

Have no fear...

Obama will solve this problem!  

You just have to believe!!!


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 26, 2009)

xsited1 said:


> Have no fear...
> 
> Obama will solve this problem!
> 
> You just have to believe!!!


 
*You mean the Dollybama?*


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 26, 2009)

dilloduck said:


> You're gonna regret that


 
*OK, How? Amanda is really a ... *


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## 007 (Jan 26, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> > Wolfmoon said:
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Twelve going on thirty.

But why does it matter. She's already got you beat in the maturity department. I wouldn't press it if I was you. 

Just some friendly advice.


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 26, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Wolfmoon said:
> 
> 
> > Amanda said:
> ...


 
I don't take that as friendly.  She wants legalized drugs and I want law and order.  OK, you take her side.  Mexico is the biggest supplier of illegal drugs in America.  Bath tub drugs to fry your brain.


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## Amanda (Jan 26, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Wolfmoon said:
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> 
> > Amanda said:
> ...



Thanks guys I appreciate the support.


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 26, 2009)

If you are victim of drug related Domestic Violence

Response and Follow-up by Responding Police Officers
If you believe you are the victim of an abusive relationship or domestic violence,
then call the police and allow us to assist you the victim. As the responding
officers are in route to your address remember that they are there to help you
and your children. Below is but a few of the issues that the officers will address
and what you can expect.

When the Police Arrive:

Tell what has happened and who is involved.

Tell the location of the suspect. (If known)

Tell if weapons were involved and there location. (Don&#8217;t approach the
officer with a weapon)

Indicate injuries you sustained. (Photos may have to be taken)

The Officer Will:
Write a report of the incident that occurred.

The officer will ask and /or determine if medical attention is needed.

The officer will help you if you wish to prosecute or wish to obtain an
order of protection.

The Officer Can Assist in:

In obtaining a warrant or order of protection. (The suspect's address,
work location, or other possible locations is needed)

They can provide transportation to obtain a warrant, order of protection,
or shelter.

The officer can assist in locating a victim&#8217;s shelter.

They can refer other social services as needed.


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## Amanda (Jan 26, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> *What are you like twelve now Amanda that's what your picture looks like.?  *



Nothing says "I got nothing," like going straight to name calling.

You will find a certain contingent here that will be glad to play those kinds of games, I'm not one of them. I like to discuss the issues on their merits, not the avatar of the person presenting the argument. FWIW, I'm old enough to vote and I _do_, so that makes my opinion worth exactly as much as yours.

I don't expect we'll be talking much but good luck, the wall of vulgarity you're going to be slammed with can be substantial.


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 26, 2009)

"Parents who abuse drugs and alcohol can't always care for their children. They may be too ill to be the kind of parents they should be. They may be in treatment. They may be in jail. When substance abuse hits a family, grandparents often step in to care for the children who are left behind. These grandparents put their lives on hold so they can provide their grandchildren with a stable home and the love that they need so much. 
Are you a grandparent? Are your adult children abusing alcohol or drugs? Then you know that every member of your family is in crisis. Your adult son or daughter needs help. And your grandchildren are hurting. They feel alone and unloved. They don't understand why mom or dad can't take care of them. 
As a grandparent, you may hurt inside too. You may feel angry at your child. You might feel guilty because you think it's your fault that your child has an addiction. You may be ashamed that this has happened to your family. You might be sad and depressed."


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## Amanda (Jan 26, 2009)

I was going to be done after my last post, but this one slipped by while I was writing... Please, in the name of all that is good and decent don't let another one commit Lamification with this kind of outright spam. I think the good people of USMB may have run the original Lamifier out of town with pitchforks (or it may just be licking it's wounds somewhere ) but this one looks like it's gearing up to take it's place. Beware, beware!



Wolfmoon said:


> If you are victim of drug related Domestic Violence
> 
> Response and Follow-up by Responding Police Officers
> If you believe you are the victim of an abusive relationship or domestic violence,
> ...


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 26, 2009)

Executive office of the President:
Drug-Related Crime - Factsheet - Drug Facts


The National Institute of Justice (NIJ) Arrestee Drug Abuse Monitoring (ADAM) Program measures drug use among arrestees by calculating the percentage of arrestees with positive urine tests for drug use. ADAM data are collected voluntarily and anonymously at the time of arrest in booking facilities in selected U.S. cities. 
Data collected from male arrestees in 1998 in 35 cities showed that the percentage testing positive for any drug ranged from 42.5 percent in Anchorage, Alaska, to 78.7 percent in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Female arrestees testing positive ranged from 33.3 percent in Laredo, Texas, to 82.1 percent in New York, New York. Male arrestees charged with drug possession or sales were among the most likely to test positive for drug use, while female arrestees charged with prostitution, drug possession, or sales were among the most likely to elicit a positive test result. Males and females arrested for stolen vehicles, robbery, and burglary also had high positive rates. Test results further showed that opiate use demonstrated a positive correlation to polydrug use: of the individuals who tested positive for opiates, three-fourths also tested positive for another drug.


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 26, 2009)

Drug-Related Crime - Factsheet - Drug Facts


_Incarcerated offenders were often under the influence of drugs when they committed their offenses_

By the end of 1998, State and Federal prisons housed two-thirds of the Nation's incarcerated population and jails housed the other third. From 1990 to 1998, the Federal prison population almost doubled, reaching 123,041 offenders. The State prison population also increased significantly between 1990 and 1998, from 708,393 to 1,178,978 inmates. At year-end 1998, the number of offenders in jails was 592,462, an increase from earlier. This number includes people who were awaiting trial and those whose sentences were 1 year or less.

In 1997 the U.S. Bureau of the Census conducted surveys of State and Federal prison inmates for BJS and the Bureau of Prisons. These surveys asked sentenced Federal and State prison inmates whether they were under the influence of drugs at the time they committed the offense that resulted in their incar-ceration. The percentage of Federal and State prison inmates who reported they were under the influence of drugs at the time of the offense varied across the major offense categories (see table 2). These same studies found that drug offenders and robbers in State prisons were those most likely to report being under the influence of drugs at the time of the offense. State prison inmates convicted of sexual assault and negligent manslaughter were among those least likely to report being under the influence of drugs. Federal prison inmates were less likely, with the exception of murder and weapons offenses, than State inmates to have committed their offenses under the influence of drugs.


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 26, 2009)

*I'm sure it's a lot worse now.*

*Percentage of State and Federal prison inmates who reported being under the influence of drugs at time of their offense, 1997* 

Type of offense - Federal prison inmates - State prison inmates 

Total of all inmates 22.4% 32.6% 

Violent offenses - Federal prison 24.5 ,State prison 29.0

Murder Federal prison - 29.4, State prison 26.8 

Negligent manslaughter - * State prison 17.4 

Sexual assault - Federal prison 7.9, State prison 21.5 

Robbery - Federal prison 27.8, State prison 39.9 

Assault - Federal prison 13.8, State prison 24.2 

Other - State prison 15.9, State prison 29.0 

Property offenses - Federal prison 10.8, State prison 36.6

Burglary - * State prison 38.4 

Larceny/theft - * State prison 38.4 

Motor vehicle theft - * State prison 39.0 

Fraud - Federal prison 6.5, State prison 30.5 

Other - Federal prison 16.4, State prison 30.6 

Drug offenses - Federal prison, 25.0 State prison 41.9 

Possession - Federal prison 25.1, State prison42.6 

Trafficking - Federal prison 25.9, State prison 41.0 

Other - Federal prison 17.1, state prison 47.1

Public-order offenses - Federal prison 15.6, State prison 23.1 

Weapons - Federal prison 24.4, State prison 22.4 

Other - Federal prison 8.1, State prison 23.3

* Too few cases in the sample to permit calculation.

Source: BJS, Substance Abuse and Treatment, State and Federal Prisoners, 1997. 
Drug-Related Crime - Factsheet - Drug Facts


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 26, 2009)

Amanda said:


> the wall of vulgarity you're going to be slammed with can be substantial.


 
I don't understand what do you mean by that?


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 26, 2009)

Bureau of Justice Statistics

Bureau of Justice Statistics Prison Statistics

State prisons held 253,300 drug offenders in 2005.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Jan 26, 2009)

Non-violent drug crimes are a waste of time and resources, and the government should not, and doesn't under the Constitution, have the authority to regulate what a person does to their own body.


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## Amanda (Jan 26, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> > the wall of vulgarity you're going to be slammed with can be substantial.
> ...



I mean by running off people that honestly want to converse and debate ideas you will be left with the dregs of the board. They LOVE to call names and attack the person not the idea. And they often do it with a flourish of vulgarity that would make a sailor blush. So if you've come to get down in the mud and wrestle with the pig you're on the right track, just remember the pig likes it, so I hope you do too.


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 26, 2009)

Amanda said:


> I think the good people of USMB may have run the original Lamifier out of town with pitchforks (or it may just be licking it's wounds somewhere ) but this one looks like it's gearing up to take it's place. Beware, beware!


 
You talk in riddles.  Do you speak for all the USMB members are you the designated mouth piece?  Oh, don't tell me, I'm going to get it now, right?


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## dilloduck (Jan 26, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> > I think the good people of USMB may have run the original Lamifier out of town with pitchforks (or it may just be licking it's wounds somewhere ) but this one looks like it's gearing up to take it's place. Beware, beware!
> ...




You've already been had and don't even know it .


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## Amanda (Jan 26, 2009)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> Non-violent drug crimes are a waste of time and resources, and the government should not, and doesn't under the Constitution, have the authority to regulate what a person does to their own body.



Exactly. I get pretty Libertarian about drugs and stuff like that. It's a huge waste of money trying to legislate morality, it always has been and likely always will be. Let non-violent drug offenders out and use the newly freed up resources to actually make us safer.


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 26, 2009)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> Non-violent drug crimes are a waste of time and resources, and the government should not, and doesn't under the Constitution, have the authority to regulate what a person does to their own body.


 
But local, state and federal laws do.  If you want to do drugs have at it it's your body and your life, but beware of the consequences.  They're not going to change the laws for drug users.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Jan 26, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > Non-violent drug crimes are a waste of time and resources, and the government should not, and doesn't under the Constitution, have the authority to regulate what a person does to their own body.
> ...



Local, state, and federal laws do what?


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 26, 2009)

*This thread isn't about Americans and Drug use by legal citizens in America. It's about illegal aliens sneaking drugs into America, and illegal aliens human smuggling on our southwest border with military style weapons. And U.S. based gangs that are increasingly coordinating with one another to achieve their objectives.*



1. Drug trafficking organizations and human smuggling networks are proliferating and strengthening their control of key corridors along our Nations Southwest border.


2. The Mexican drug cartels wield substantial control over the U.S.-Mexican border. Law enforcement on the border agree that very little crosses the respective cartel territories, or plazas, along the Southwest border without cartel knowledge, approval, and financial remuneration.


3. These criminal organizations and networks are highly sophisticated and
organized, operating with military style weapons and technology, utilizing
counter surveillance techniques and acting aggressively against both law
enforcement and competitors.


4. Drug trafficking organizations, human smuggling networks and U.S. based gangs are increasingly coordinating with one another to achieve their objectives.


5. Federal, State and local law enforcement report new and ever-increasing levels of ruthlessness and violence associated with these criminal organizations, which are increasingly spilling across the border into the United States and moving into local communities.


6. Each year hundreds of illegal aliens from countries known to harbor terrorists or promote terrorism are routinely encountered and apprehended attempting to enter the U.S. illegally.


7. The existing resources of the U.S. Border Patrol and local law enforcement must continue to be enhanced to counter the cartels and the criminal networks they leverage to circumvent law enforcement.

HOUSE COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
Page 6.
A Line in the Sand:  Confronting the Threat at the Southwest Border
*http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdfhttp://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdf*


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Jan 26, 2009)

I'd still like to know what local, state, and federal laws do.


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 26, 2009)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> I'd still like to know what local, state, and federal laws do. quote]
> 
> *They have the authority to regulate your every move according to the laws, if you don't believe me just defy them, spit in their faces and see where that gets you. *


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Jan 26, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> *Have the authority to regulate your every move according to the laws, if you don't believe me just defy them, spit in their faces and see where that gets you.  *



I see.  Well any law passed without the authority of the Constitution has no authority at all.  As to the rest of your post, I am not a drug user so I am not inclined to "defy them" in this regard.


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## 007 (Jan 26, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Wolfmoon said:
> ...



Well it was friendly. You tried to insult her intelligence by implying she wasn't old enough to reason out an adult answer. Thing is she is, she can, and does so very well.

That's all. I didn't take anyones side on anything other than that.


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 26, 2009)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> I see. Well any law passed without the authority of the Constitution has no authority at all. As to the rest of your post, I am not a drug user so I am not inclined to "defy them" in this regard.


 
*Tell that to the lawmakers.* *This thread isn't about Americans and Drug use by legal citizens in America. *

*It's about illegal aliens sneaking drugs into America, and illegal aliens human smuggling on our Southwest border with military style weapons. And U.S. based illegal alien gangs that are increasingly coordinating with one another to achieve their objectives.*


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## 007 (Jan 26, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > I see. Well any law passed without the authority of the Constitution has no authority at all. As to the rest of your post, I am not a drug user so I am not inclined to "defy them" in this regard.
> ...



Now THAT I have a problem with, and I know it's a huge problem. Frankly, I'd like to see America withdraw it's military out of the middle east and put them on the southern border. Give a warning shot for anything trying to cross. If they don't halt, shoot to kill. Our southern border problems would be over in a matter of days.


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 26, 2009)

michiganFats said:


> At this point, I don't think this is an issue for the Border Patrol. It should be handled by the military.


 
I definitely agree with you.  The sooner we close the borders and build a fence and guard it the better.  Then we can work on empyting out the Jails and State and Federal prisons of illegal aliens.  Unfortunately, the illegal aliens children are American citizens so, I guess we'll have to put up with them.  

It'll take the military to keep these illegal aliens invaders out, since they're like a swarm of locust attacking our Southern border.  We may have to call for Civilian Voluntary Militia to help secure the borders and ports.


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 26, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Wolfmoon said:
> 
> 
> > *Tell that to the lawmakers.* *This thread isn't about Americans and Drug use by legal citizens in America. *
> ...


 
I agree Military tactics on the Southern border will put a quick end to illegal aliens crossing illegally into the United States.  "*Halt Who Goes There?"*

I also, would like to see the military out of the Middle East.  Bush has opened a can of worms, that we may never get the lid back on.


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## michiganFats (Jan 27, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> michiganFats said:
> 
> 
> > At this point, I don't think this is an issue for the Border Patrol. It should be handled by the military.
> ...



I don't want to build a fence. All that will do is slow down the Army when they eventually will have to enter Mexico in order to administer an asskicking of biblical proportion. I also couldn't care less about the illegal immigrants. I am concerned about Mexican dirtbag criminals entering the US and menacing US citizens on American land.


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## Wolfmoon (Jan 27, 2009)

Amanda said:


> I was going to be done after my last post, but this one slipped by while I was writing... Please, in the name of all that is good and decent don't let another one commit Lamification with this kind of outright spam. I think the good people of USMB may have run the original Lamifier out of town with pitchforks (or it may just be licking it's wounds somewhere ) but this one looks like it's gearing up to take it's place. Beware, beware!


 
Good God Amanda *"Lamification,"* isn't even a word.  Perhaps it's another language?  What do you mean when you use *"Lamifer,"* because that's not a real word in the English language either?  If it is, I would be happy to be corrected.  It certainly sounds like you just made it up, to baffle us with BS.

When you say, that a poster gets run out of town.  Do you mean pro-illegal alien tag teams antagonize a poster and when the poster responds in a derogatory manner, the illegal aliens tag team reports them to the administators with a lengthy report of abuse?  Then the poster gets banned, is that what you mean by run out of town?  Well, that kind of entrapment is nothing new on immigration boards and it's a well-known tactic used the Anti-American, Pro-illegal alien supporters, who are forwarding their own agendas like open borders, amnesty and legalized drugs in America.

The Pro-illegal alien supporters, are afraid of the American public learning the true facts about illegal aliens.  They have a vested interest in keeping pertinent information away from the voting Americans eyes and ears.  Especially, when it's derogatory and/or damaging to the 20 million illegal aliens currently living *illegally *in America.

The only thing people should Beware of, are the Pro-illegal alien supporters trying to hijack threads and muddle the issues and create chaos.

The Pro-illegal alien supporters can't put any posters on ignore, because it's their job to sit all day in a boiler room filled with computers, trying to control the internet immigration boards and sway public opinion.  The public relation firms (P.R.) are being hired by big corporations and even Mexico has hired a a P.R. firm out of Texas.  Good God, what rotten jobs Pro-illegal aliens supporters have and very *UN-AMERICAN* to boot.


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## Ravi (Jan 27, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> The only thing people should Beware of, are the Pro-illegal alien supporters trying to hijack threads and muddle the issues and create chaos.
> 
> The Pro-illegal alien supporters can't put any posters on ignore, because it's their job to sit all day in a boiler room filled with computers, trying to control the internet immigration boards and sway public opinion.  The public relation firms (P.R.) are being hired by big corporations and even Mexico has hired a a P.R. firm out of Texas.  Good God, what rotten jobs Pro-illegal aliens supporters have and very *UN-AMERICAN* to boot.




Damn you're paranoid.


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## editec (Jan 27, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> > I was going to be done after my last post, but this one slipped by while I was writing... Please, in the name of all that is good and decent don't let another one commit Lamification with this kind of outright spam. I think the good people of USMB may have run the original Lamifier out of town with pitchforks (or it may just be licking it's wounds somewhere ) but this one looks like it's gearing up to take it's place. Beware, beware!
> ...


 
I rather doubt you'll find anyone on this board who is not opposed to illegal aliens.

You will find differences in the way we think the USA should solve the problem, though.


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## Amanda (Jan 27, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> Good God Amanda *"Lamification,"* isn't even a word.  Perhaps it's another language?  What do you mean when you use *"Lamifer,"* because that's not a real word in the English language either?  If it is, I would be happy to be corrected.  It certainly sounds like you just made it up, to baffle us with BS.



Maybe after you've been here more than 10 minutes you'll start to catch on to the board culture. My comment wasn't to you, it was _before_ the part I quoted, my comment was to the other regulars. I'm pretty sure they all _got_ what I was saying.

As for the rest of your paranoid rant... it doesn't really rate further consideration. Good luck with your agenda.


----------



## Wolfmoon (Jan 27, 2009)

Amanda said:


> Wolfmoon said:
> 
> 
> > Good God Amanda *"Lamification,"* isn't even a word. Perhaps it's another language? What do you mean when you use *"Lamifer,"* because that's not a real word in the English language either? If it is, I would be happy to be corrected. It certainly sounds like you just made it up, to baffle us with BS.
> ...


 
*Oh, so you have been here, for less than 90 days and you are old hat?  Please, enlighten us with your made up vocabulary.  What does Lamification and lamifer mean???  Does anyone know?   *

*Thank you for encouraging me to futher my agenda of deporting criminal illegal aliens from America and keeping illegal drugs out of our country.  That means  a lot to me and I hope others will follow suit. *


----------



## michiganFats (Jan 27, 2009)

I found this on Fatsipedia, I hope it helps.

Lamification: a process whereby something is made lame.

Lamifier: 1) someone who engages in Lamification.  (see Lamification)
              2) a conversion rating which allows others to see your Lamification level.


----------



## Ravi (Jan 27, 2009)

Lamification: What happens to a thread that Wolfmoon posts on.


----------



## Wolfmoon (Jan 27, 2009)

michiganFats said:


> I found this on Fatsipedia, I hope it helps.
> 
> Lamification: a process whereby something is made lame.
> 
> ...


 
Your source is invalid do you have a link?


----------



## michiganFats (Jan 27, 2009)

I would post a link, but unfortunately the good people at Fatsipedia  aren't very big on details.


----------



## Amanda (Jan 27, 2009)

I can't let you guys antagonize Wolfmoon so mercilessly.

Look Wolf, this stuff happens fast and if you want to keep up you need to read most of the threads that are posted. I'll give you this one, but don't come crying to me when someone mentions the Wangenschlong effect and you can't find it in the dictionary cos I won't bail you out again.

Lamification: a process whereby a newbie poster attempts to prove intellectual prowess/relevance by cutting and pasting vast quantities of useless/irrelevant text.

Lamifier: 1) someone who engages in Lamification. (see Lamification)

This term was created in honor of HelloDaliLama who raised this practice to an art form.


----------



## Wolfmoon (Jan 27, 2009)

editec said:


> Wolfmoon said:
> 
> 
> > Amanda said:
> ...


 
I have read quite a few posts that are Pro-illegal alien. I think that most true Americans will agree, it's not good for our country and it must come to an end. Hopefully they'll also agree that deportation is the only way and we need to fortify our borders and ports with security to protect our sovereignty. 

I personally believe we can survive a bad economy but we *cannot *survive Amnesty. The illegal aliens will out number us in a matter of years simply by having babies. If they gain control of the vote by 51%, they'll change existing laws and open the borders and we will have lost America and our way of life. We'll be taxed to death supporting the uneducated 3rd World people.


----------



## michiganFats (Jan 27, 2009)

Wolf, The problem I have with this thread is that you listed 7 points in your initial post. Out of the 7, only 1 of them dealt with illegal immigration. The other 6 dealt exclusively with criminal activity. If you wanted to talk about illegal immigration, that's what you should have posted.


----------



## Wolfmoon (Jan 27, 2009)

The triple threat of drug smuggling, illegal and unknown crossers, and rising violence are the reality facing communities. While many illegal aliens cross the border searching for employment, not all illegal aliens are crossing into the United States to find work. Law enforcement has stated that some individuals come across the border because they have been forced to leave their home countries due to their criminal activity. These dangerous criminals are fleeing the law in other countries and seeking refuge in the United States.

Along the border with Mexico, there are 43 Ports of Entry, 18 in Texas, connecting with major U.S. interstate highways. These Ports or Entry and highway systems are intended to facilitate lawful trade and commerce. However, the Mexican drug cartels have been able to use these highways for their own ends, seeing in them an efficient means to transport their drugs and illegal aliens across the border.

HOUSE COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
Page 3.
A Line in the Sand:  Confronting the Threat at the Southwest Border
*http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdfhttp://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdf*


----------



## Wolfmoon (Jan 27, 2009)

Mexican drug cartels operating along the Southwest border are more sophisticated and dangerous than any other organized criminal enterprise. The Mexican cartels, and the smuggling rings and gangs they leverage, wield substantial control over the routes into the United States and pose substantial challenges to U.S. law enforcement to secure the Southwest border. The cartels operate along the border with military grade weapons, technology and intelligence and their own respective paramilitary enforcers.

In addition, human smugglers coordinate with the drug cartels, paying a fee to use the cartels safe smuggling routes into the Unites States. There are also indications the cartels may be moving to diversify their criminal enterprises to include the increasingly lucrative human smuggling trade. 

Moreover, U.S. law enforcement has established that there is increasing coordination between Mexican drug cartels, human smuggling networks and U.S.-based gangs. The cartels use street and prison gangs located in the United States as their distribution networks. In the United States, the gang members operate as surrogates and enforcers for the cartels.

Members of Hezbollah _(terrorist group)_ have already entered the United States across the Southwest border.


HOUSE COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
Page 4.

http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Inve...der-Report.pdf


----------



## Amanda (Jan 27, 2009)

Wolf, you're Lamifying again.


----------



## strollingbones (Jan 27, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> > legalize all drugs...put monies from the so called "drug war" into other things...
> ...



okay lets not be just plain fucking stupid here wolf...if you look at countries where drugs are legal...the abuse rate is lower ....do you have an arguement or just stupid bullshit like you just posted?


----------



## strollingbones (Jan 27, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Wolfmoon said:
> ...



i will have to call bullshit on this one...pot is the number one money crop in how many states?  meth is cooked up by anyone with a computer and a few household chemicals.  good coke rarely comes from mexico....biker gangs are doing well making crank...good heroin and opiums come from our friends up north....the biggest drug dealers and suppliers in the us...are licensed doctors...give it up wolf...you are just embarrassing yourself...

btw about our little amanda  ... i will enjoy seeing her bitchslap you ....early and often


----------



## Wolfmoon (Jan 27, 2009)

During 2005, Border Patrol apprehended approximately 1.2 million illegal aliens; of those 165,000 were from countries other than Mexico. Of the non-Mexican aliens, approximately 650 were from special interest countries. Special interest countries are those designated by the intelligence community as countries that could export individuals that could bring harm to our country in the way of terrorism.

Federal law enforcement estimates that 10 percent to 30 percent of illegal aliens are actually apprehended.


HOUSE COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
Page 2-3.
A Line in the Sand:  Confronting the Threat at the Southwest Border
*http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdfhttp://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdf*


----------



## Amanda (Jan 27, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> btw about our little amanda  ... i will enjoy seeing her bitchslap you ....early and often



Aw, you made me blush.


----------



## Wolfmoon (Jan 27, 2009)

According to the National Drug Intelligence Center, Mexican cartels are the predominant smugglers, transporters, and wholesale distributors of cocaine, marijuana, methamphetamine, and Mexico-produced heroin in the United States and are expanding their control over the distribution of these drugs in areas long controlled by Colombian and Dominican criminal groups, including areas of New York and Florida.

In addition to drug trafficking, cartels have been tied to both human and arms smuggling.

HOUSE COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
Page 7.
A Line in the Sand:  Confronting the Threat at the Southwest Border
*http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdfhttp://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdf*


----------



## strollingbones (Jan 27, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> During 2005, Border Patrol apprehended approximately 1.2 million illegal aliens; of those 165,000 were from countries other than Mexico. Of the non-Mexican aliens, approximately 650 were from special interest countries. Special interest countries are those designated by the intelligence community as countries that could export individuals that could bring harm to our country in the way of terrorism.
> 
> Federal law enforcement estimates that 10 percent to 30 percent of illegal aliens are actually apprehended.
> 
> ...




is there a point here?  you know a point other than on your head?


----------



## strollingbones (Jan 27, 2009)

Amanda said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> > btw about our little amanda  ... i will enjoy seeing her bitchslap you ....early and often
> ...



i was gonna kiss your sweet pouty lips and cram my tongue down your throat but i figured you would freak out at the combo of ..old dyke sex ...


----------



## Wolfmoon (Jan 27, 2009)

In addition to drug trafficking, cartels have been tied to both human and arms smuggling, and U.S. intelligence officials report they expect to see human smuggling become another component of the drug cartels business. This fact is of particular import in a post 9/11 environment and at a time in history when the United States is more concerned than ever about securing its borders.

Mexican cartels are also increasing their relationships with prison and street gangs in the United States to facilitate trafficking drugs within the United States. For example, gangs including the Latin Kings and Mara Salvatrucha buy methamphetamine from Mexican drug cartels for distribution in the southwestern United States. 

The U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration reports that the Mexican drug syndicates operating today along our Nations Southwest border are far more sophisticated and dangerous than any of the other organized criminal groups in Americas law enforcement history. Indeed, these powerful drug cartels, and the human smuggling networks and gangs they leverage, have immense control over the routes into the United States and continue to pose formidable challenges to our efforts to secure the Southwest border.

HOUSE COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
Page 7.
A Line in the Sand:  Confronting the Threat at the Southwest Border
*http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdfhttp://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdf*


----------



## Amanda (Jan 27, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> i was gonna kiss your sweet pouty lips and cram my tongue down your throat but i figured you would freak out at the combo of ..old dyke sex ...



Oh.... my.


----------



## Wolfmoon (Jan 27, 2009)

Directly across the Texas cities of Brownsville, McAllen, and Laredo are major Mexican cities, each with a population between 600,000 and 800,000.

McAllen and Brownsville host interstate highways and thoroughfares, providing drug traffickers and human smugglers with ready access to the Nations interior. *Trains,* usually 90 to 160 cars in length, traveling from Central America through Mexico to Brownsville, McAllen, and Laredo, are one mode of transportation illegal aliens use to enter the United States. Each year thousands of *illegal aliens cling to the sides and tops of the rail cars* for the journey to the north.


HOUSE COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
Page 8. _(interesting pictures of illegal aliens riding on top of trains coming to America)_
A Line in the Sand: Confronting the Threat at the Southwest Border
*http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdf*


----------



## Kevin_Kennedy (Jan 27, 2009)

This just in:

Government does not have authority to regulate what people do to their own bodies.

FindLaw: Cases and Codes: U.S. Constitution

More at 11.


----------



## Wolfmoon (Jan 27, 2009)

Call the *Internal Revenue Service* (IRS) hotline *1-800-829-0433* to report 
all suspected employers of illegal aliens-&#8212;you are not required to 
identify yourself and may be entitled to a reward. 

The Application for Reward ( Form 211 
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f211.pdf ) 
can be downloaded from http://www.irs.gov . or call 1-800-829-3676. 

The IRS does not take kindly to employers that seek to evade taxes by 
paying cash for day labor-this is a common practice at construction 
sites. 

Report the employer`s license plate number and any other information you 
may have. 

Employers usually can't run and take the hit in their wallets. Follow up 
with the IRS and ask what action is being taken; if they refuse to 
cooperate, notify the press and your elected officials. Do your 
part-&#8212;spread the word-&#8212;help make this 
nationwide campaign a success!!!


----------



## Ravi (Jan 27, 2009)

Damn, Wolfie, you may be the number one spammer at USMB.


----------



## strollingbones (Jan 27, 2009)

cut and paste...how refreshing....the empty vessel always makes the most noise


----------



## Kevin_Kennedy (Jan 27, 2009)

The IRS should be abolished.


----------



## Wolfmoon (Jan 27, 2009)

To protect and expand their criminal operations, Mexican drug cartels maintain highly developed intelligence networks *on both sides of the border* and have hired private armies to carry out enforcement measures. For example, the Gulf Cartel leader Cardenas employs a group of former elite military soldiers known as *Los Zetas."*

The Zetas are unique among drug enforcer gangs in that they operate as a private army under the orders of Cardenas Gulf Cartel, the first time a drug lord has had his own paramilitary. The Zetas have been instrumental in the Gulf Cartels domination of the drug trade in Nuevo Laredo, and have fought to maintain the cartels influence in that city following the arrest of Cardenas. The Zetas activities are not limited to defending the Gulf Cartels terrain in northern Mexico. The paramilitary force is also believed to control trafficking routes along the eastern half of the U.S.-Mexico border.

The Zetas are believed to be a serious threat to public safety *on both sides of the Southwest border.* They are well-financed and well-equipped and have demonstrated a willingness to shoot, torture, and kill law enforcement officers, or rival cartel and gang members on both sides of the border. Federal law enforcement officials deem the Zetas among the most dangerous criminal enterprises in the Americas.



HOUSE COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
Page 11 - 12. 
A Line in the Sand:  Confronting the Threat at the Southwest Border
*http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdfhttp://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdf*
http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdf


----------



## Amanda (Jan 27, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Damn, Wolfie, you may be the number one spammer at USMB.



But at least it's contained in 1 thread and we're not being smacked with a Wangenschlong.


----------



## Wolfmoon (Jan 27, 2009)

Reports indicate that while the Zetas were initially comprised of members of the Mexican militarys Special Forces, they now include Federal, State, and local law enforcement personnel as well as civilians. Moreover, *according to U.S. intelligence officials,* Zetas are recruiting former Guatelmalan Special Forces military personnel know as Kaibiles and members of the notorious cross-border gangs known as Maras, including the violent Mara Salvatruchas (MS13).

The cartels methods of torture and killing are particularly brutal. On September 6, 2006, masked gunmen entered a nightclub in the Michoacan, fired guns in the air and rolled five severed human heads onto the dance floor. The gunmen left a sign among the severed heads that read: The family doesnt kill for money. It doesnt kill women. It doesnt kill innocent people, only those who deserve to die. Know that this is divine justice."

According to Federal law enforcement officials; this hideous act was a revenge killing between warring gangs. *Decapitations are becoming quite common* in many areas in Mexico where cartels and gangs battle for control over lucrative smuggling corridors to the United States. Heads are publicly displayed for the purpose of intimidation. 

Another brutal means of torture and death is called guisoe. This practice involves putting a person into a 55 gallon drum, usually dead, but not always, and pouring various flammable liquids over the body and lighting it on fire. A variation on this method is to place a burning tire around the neck of an individual, burning the victim alive. The remains are dumped on roadsides as a message to others who would consider crossing the cartels. The ruthless methods employed by these cartels to torture and kill their competitors are no different than the techniques used by Al Qa'ida and other terrorist organizations. This level of brutality is particulary troubling as the cartels are executing these vicious murders a mere stones-throw from U.S. soil. 

HOUSE COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
Page 12. 
A Line in the Sand:  Confronting the Threat at the Southwest Border
*http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdfhttp://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdf*
http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Inve...der-Report.pdf


----------



## Wolfmoon (Feb 1, 2009)

Hezbollah is now believed to be training Mexican drug cartel enforcers the *art of bomb making*.  The training is designed to combat the Mexican Army and police, American Special Forces and DEA agents now operating in Mexico.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/79021


----------



## Wolfmoon (Feb 1, 2009)

America can't afford to help with the drug cartel. They should use the money to build and guard the fence at the southern border.

~*~*~*~*~*~

December 3, 2008

U.S. Aid Sent To Fight Drug War In Mexico

*The Merida Initiative*

The U.S. government finally released the *first part of a $400 million aid package* Wednesday to support Mexico's police and soldiers in their fight against drug cartels.

The money comes at a critical time: drug-related murders and kidnappings are spilling over the U.S. border as well.

U.S. Ambassador Tony Garza formally *released $197 million* at a signing ceremony in Mexico City. *The rest* will be disbursed throughout the year.

http://cbs3.com/national/mexico.drug.war.2.879322.html


----------



## Wolfmoon (Feb 1, 2009)

The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens.  In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the United States.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html


----------



## Wolfmoon (Feb 2, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Wolfmoon said:
> 
> 
> > Based on a review of the data, interviews conducted and other information collected, Subcommittee staff finds that:
> ...


 
In my opinion, you're absolutely right! I think in the governments quest for "One World Order", it will bring a Civil War. Once America is tore down like other war-torn countries. We may not have the funds to rebuild. The government officials might be the first ones to go. So, I don't know why they're in such a hurry.

I think the media is also covering up and has not been reporting important facts that American's need to know, to make intelligent decisions reguarding the direction of their country.

The Gang problem goes mostly unreported about their activities and how vicious, violent, revengeful and well organized they are. Anyone wishing to legalized drugs in America is wishing to open up a can of worms filled with drug related violent crimes by a well armed militia.

~*~*~*~*~*~

*2009 National Gang Threat Assessment*


Criminal gangs commit as much as 80 percent of the crime in many communities, according to law enforcement officials throughout the nation. Typical gang-related crimes include alien smuggling, armed robbery, assault, auto theft, drug trafficking, extortion, fraud, home invasions, identity theft, murder, and weapons trafficking.

*Cross-Border Gang Activity*



U.S.-based gang members are increasingly involved in cross-border criminal activities, particularly in areas of Texas and California along the U.S.&#8211;Mexico border. Much of this activity involves the trafficking of drugs and illegal aliens from Mexico into the United States and considerably adds to gang revenues. Further, gangs are increasingly smuggling weapons from the United States into Mexico as payment for drugs or to sell for a significant profit. Examples of such cross border activities include:

&#8226; Street and prison gang members have established networks that work closely with Mexican DTOs (drug traffing organizations) in trafficking cocaine and marijuana from Mexico into the United States for distribution.

&#8226; Some Mexican DTOs contract with gangs in the Southwest Region to smuggle weapons from the United States to Mexico, according to open source information.

&#8226; Street gang and OMG (outlaw motorcyle gangs) members are trafficking cocaine and firearms from the United States to Canada and marijuana and MDMA (3,4 - methylenedioxymethamphetarnine, also know as ecstasy) from Canada to the United States; this is a growing concern to U.S. and Canadian law enforcement officials, particularly as Canadian law enforcement officials report that street gangrelated gun crimes in Canada are often committed using firearms that are illegally smuggled into the country from the United States.

SOURCE:

*Gangs*




2009 National Gang Threat Assessment
*OR*

http://www.atf.gov/
Bureau of Alcohol, tobacco, Firearms and Explosive
Scroll down until you see:
Gangs
*2009 National Gang Threat Assessment*


----------



## GHook93 (Feb 2, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> legalize all drugs...put monies from the so called "drug war" into other things...



People don't realize that reason Mexico and South America can't beat the Cartels is the drug money makes the Cartels so powerful that they can buy anything. At the very least legalize pot and coke.


----------



## Wolfmoon (Feb 3, 2009)

xsited1 said:


> Have no fear...
> 
> Obama will solve this problem!
> 
> You just have to believe!!!


 
In my opinion, I'm not so sure about that. Obama is surrounding himself with "Crook Yes Men." If Obama was smart, he would focuse on easing the national deficit by carrying out a census of all known illegal aliens and deporting them. All illegal aliens and their children should be removed from any government or taxpayer funded social services or welfare programs. He should also make an impenetrable seal at the Southern border because that seems to be where most of our problems are coming from. The terrorists are coming over the border at free will. Let's remember there were less that 20 terrorists to create the demonic destruction on 9/11.

~*~*~*~*~*~

During 2005, Border Patrol apprehended approximately 1.2 million illegal aliens; of those 165,000 were from countries other than Mexico. Of the non-Mexican aliens, approximately 650 were from special interest countries. Special interest countries are those designated by the intelligence community as countries that could export individuals that could bring harm to our country in the way of terrorism.

Federal law enforcement estimates that 10 percent to 30 percent of illegal aliens are actually apprehended Therefore, in 2005, as many as 10 to 4 million illegal aliens crossed into the United States;

HOUSE COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
Page 2 - 3.

http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Inve...der-Report.pdf


----------



## Wolfmoon (Feb 4, 2009)

In my opinion, the illegal aliens come for the benefits not the jobs.  The American born children of two illegal alien parent make them eligible for social services and education and medical programs.  Programs like medicare, welfare, food stamps, public housing, WIC, free school lunches, after school day care and more.  America must end birthright citizenship for children of illegal aliens. 

The U.S. needs to stop granting automatic citizenship to the U.S.-born children of illegal aliens.  This is a big draw for illegal aliens to enter the country illegally and abuse the system.

"The 14th Amendment, passed to guarantee the citizenship of freed slaves, grants citizenship to anyone born here and "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States. HR 1940 acknowledges the right of birthright citizenship established by the 14th amendment to the Constitution, but says a person born in the United States is considered "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States only if one of the parents is a citizen, an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence, or an alien performing active service in the armed forces."

There are wello over 300,000 additional U.S. citizens each year born from illegal alien mothers that are being taught to have no allegiance to America. These children will not be counted as part of the overall immigration numbers.

To continue birthright citizenship is an assult against the sovereignty of our nation and Constitution. It is a another form of illegal alien invasions in our country. Like the crook that got away with his crimes.


----------



## Wolfmoon (Feb 4, 2009)

The Pro-illegal alien supporters hire people to complain to the U.S. government.  Americans need to voice their complaints and opinions so, that this isn't a one sided issue!  Use your Right to be heard!

*Contact your politicians and tell them:*

1.  Close the borders and build and maintain the fence.
2.  Protect and guard our ports and borders.
3.  Deport illegal aliens.
4.  Punish employers who hire illegal aliens.
5.  End birthright citizenship for children of illegal aliens.

Capital Switch Board:

1-(866) 220-0044  
1-(800) 862-5530
1 (877) 851-6437

~*~*~*~*~*~

Contact Elected Officials

http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml


President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden  Send questions, comments, concerns, or well-wishes to the President or his staff..
U.S. Senators  Search for your senators by name, state, or congressional class; and visit their websites.
U.S. Representatives  Find contact information for your U.S. representative by typing in your zip code.
State Governors  Select your state to access e-mail, telephone, and postal contact information for your governor.
State Legislators  Search for state legislators and topical legislative information, by U.S. states and territories.


----------



## Wolfmoon (Feb 4, 2009)

Immigration and Population Growth

U.S. population growth is increasingly linked to immigration. The following table shows the share of our population growth attributable to foreign-born persons:

Since 1970, following the reopening of mass immigration, total U.S. population increased by 96.1 million, or 47.2 percent, while the foreign-born population increased by
27.8 million&#8212;a whopping 289 percent. Thus immigrants accounted for 28.9 percent (27.8/96.1) of U.S. population growth since 1970.

Moreover, as seen in the last column of the table, their share of U.S. population growth has risen steadily since 1970.

Immigration is not the entire story, however. Immigrants have children after they arrive in the United States. The immigrants, by definition foreign born, and their U.S.-born children together constitute what demographers call the &#8220;foreign stock.&#8221; Immigrants seem to have children at a faster pace than native-born Americans. Fertility rates (births per 1,000 women of child bearing ages, 15 to 44) in 2002 were3:

102 births per 1,000 immigrants
59 births per 1,000 native born

SOURCE:

THE FISCAL IMPACT OF IMMIGRATION
An Analysis of the Costs to 15 Federal Departments and Agencies
by Edwin S. Rubenstein
Page 48 - 49
http://www.esrresearch.com/Rubensteinreport.pdf


----------



## Wolfmoon (Feb 4, 2009)

** REVISED ALL WORKING LINKS, keep adding to the list.*

*------*

*28 Reasons to Deport Illegal Aliens* 

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year.
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters7fd8 

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. 
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html 

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html 

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally. 
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html 

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html 

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html 

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html 

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers. 
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html 

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens. 
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html 

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the United States. 
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html 

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine and marijuana, crossed into the U. S. from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report: 
http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdf 

12. The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period." 
http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf 

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. 
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/nation/15795654.htm?source=rss&channel=cctimes_nation http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/nation/15795654.htm?source=rss&amp;channel=cctimes_nation 

14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States". 
http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html 

15. Every day 12 Americans are murdered by an illegal alien. Another 13 Americans are killed by uninsured drunk illegal aliens and Eight American Children are victims of a sex crime committed by an illegal alien each day! 
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/ia05_king/col_20060505_bite.html 

16. Today, criminal aliens account for over 29 percent of prisoners in Federal Bureau of Prisons facilities and a higher share of all federal prison inmates. These prisoners represent the fastest growing segment of the federal prison population. Incarceration of criminal aliens cost an estimated $624 million to state prisons (1999) and $891 million to federal prisons (2002), according to the most recent available figure from the Bureau of Justice Statistics. 
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters0b9c 

17. "Illegal Aliens and American Medicine". "Many illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases that American Medicine fought and vanquished long ago, such as drug-resistant tuberculosis, malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue and Chagas disease." The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons
http://www.jpands.org/jpands1001.htm 

18. In 2002, HIV/AIDS was the third leading cause of death among Hispanic men aged 35 to 44 and the fourth leading cause of death among Hispanic women in the same age group. Most Hispanic men were exposed to HIV through sexual contact with other men. Source (CDC):
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/hispanic.htm 

19. If enacted the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (CIRA, S. 2611) would be the most dramatic change in immigration law in 80 years, allowing an estimated 103 million persons to legally immigrate to the U.S. over the next 20 years - fully one-third of the current population of the United States. 
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm

20. In 2007, legal and illegal aliens cost the federal government more than $346 BILLION dollars and the U.S. taxpayers paid more than $ 9,000. for each immigrant in the country!
http://www.esrresearch.com/Rubensteinreport.pdf

21. The number of illegal immigrants in the United States may be as high as 20 million people, more than double the official 9 million people estimated by the Census Bureau. 1/3/05 
http://www.bearstearns.com/bscportal/pdfs/underground.pdf 

22. Cases of Leprosy on The Rise In The U.S., The New York Times. "While there were some 900 recorded cases in the United States 40 years ago, today more than 7,000 people have leprosy.." Leprosy is an airbourne virus, it can also be spread by touching and coughing. 
http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/03_Disease/030226.leprosy.in.US.htmlhttp://jscms.jrn.columbia.edu/cns/2005-03-15/whitford-americanleprosy http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=78621 

23. Two-thirds of illegal aliens lack a high school degree, the primary reason tehy create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, nto their legal status or heavy use of most social services. 
http://www.gao.gov/archive/1998/he98030.pdf 

24. America Welcomes Illegal's Contagious Disease. 
http://www.rense.com/general64/ill.htm 

25. Mexico is the 4th Richest Oil Nation in the World. 
www.latinamericanstudies.org/mexico/lopez-portillo.htm 

26. The United Nations list Mexico as the number one center for the supply of young children to international pedophile organizations. 
http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/mexico.htm 

27. An illegal alien parent receives welfare benefits on behalf of his or her U.S. citizen child. regardless of the parents immigration status may receive welfare and other benefits. When such a child receives assistance, the aid also helps support the childs family. Page 1.
http://www.gao.gov/archive/1998/he98030.pdf

28. In fiscal year 1995, about $1.1 billion in AFDC and Food Stamp benefits were provided to household with an illegal alien parent.
http://www.gao.gov/archive/1998/he98030.pdf


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## Wolfmoon (Feb 5, 2009)

29. U.S. households headed by illegal aliens used $26.3 billion in government services during 2002, but paid $16 billion in taxes, an annual cost to taxpayers of $10 billion. It's reasonable to expect those costs to continue to soar if action is not taken to turn the tide. 
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/dec/06/20041206-102115-6766r/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/dec/06/20041206-102115-6766r/

30. The illegal aliens, costs U.S. taxpayers more than $32,000 in federal, state and local benefits each year. That same family contributes an average of $9,000 a year in taxes, resulting in a net tax burden of $22,449 each year. If the lower figure of 12 million illegal aliens is used for estimation purposes, the total tax burden translates to $2.2 trillion. 
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55135


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## Wolfmoon (Feb 8, 2009)

*[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]"A threat to our security at the border"[/FONT]*

[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]February 8, 2009[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]While the violence entails battles between drug traffickers and Mexican military and police forces, it also involves turf fights among the various drug-trafficking organizations as they seek to control access to the lucrative U.S. market. [/FONT][FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]More than 5,300 people died in the fighting in 2008 in Mexico. The carnage is now so bad that the U.S. State Department has issued travel alerts for Americans going to Mexico.  The battles in portions of northern Mexico are the equivalent of military small-unit combat and have included the use of machine guns and fragmentation grenades. Even the Marines at Camp Pendleton near San Diego are banned from spending leave time in Tijuana  because it is too dangerous. [/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]And Mexico's violence is spilling across the border into communities in the southwestern United States. Cartel enforcers have published lists of Americans, including police officers, who are *targeted for assassination.  *[/FONT][FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]Mexican Federal and local police forces, which have been thoroughly corrupted by drug money. Los Zetas, the enforcement arm of the powerful and especially ruthless Gulf Cartel, openly sought recruits to their ranks, posting help-wanted signs and hanging a large banner across a major thoroughfare in Nuevo Laredo last spring. The banner read: The Zetas want you, soldier or ex-soldier. We offer a good salary, food and benefits for your family. [/FONT][FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]Prosecutors charged top officials in the Attorney General's Office with being informers for the drug organizations. They allegedly received payments of $150,000 to $450,000 per month for information regarding surveillance targets and potential raids. The drug cartels will be one group of employers willing and able to pay for new hires. President Obama ought to put the drug violence in Mexico at the top of his list of national security priorities. [/FONT]


[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]SOURCE:[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/feb/08/lz1e8carpente22145-threat-our-security-border/?uniontrib[/FONT]


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## Wolfmoon (Feb 8, 2009)

[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]*"More than 200 Americans killed in Mexico since 2004, State Department says "*

[/FONT][FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]February 8, 2009

More than 200 American citizens have been killed since 2004 in Mexico's escalating wave of violence, amounting to the highest number of unnatural deaths in any foreign country outside military combat zones, according to the U.S. State Department.  The deaths included a 22-year-old Houston man and his 16-year-old friend who were hauled out of a minivan and shot execution style. They also included a 65-year-old nurse from Brownsville found floating in the Rio Grande after visiting a Mexican beauty salon and a retiree stabbed to death while camping on a Baja beach.  The State Department tracks most American homicides abroad but releases few details about the deaths. [/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]

[/FONT][FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]At least two dozen American victims were labeled as cartel hitmen, drug dealers, smugglers or gang members.  At least 70 other cases, the Americans were killed in Mexico while there on seemingly innocent business: visiting family, vacationing or living and working there.  The State Department last year issued "travel alerts" for several border communities, warning that dozens of U.S. citizens had been kidnapped or killed in Tijuana.  The Chronicle found that among the American deaths, at least 40 were killed and had their bodies dumped in the methods favored by drug cartels.  Records from the prosecutor in Baja California Norte, home to Tijuana, show none of the cases from 2004 to 2006 have been closed. More than 90 Americans have been killed in the state south of San Diego since 2003. [/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif][/FONT] 
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]SOURCE:[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif][/FONT] 
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]Dallas News[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/020909dntswmexico.1bd1e8c.html[/FONT]


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## Wolfmoon (Feb 28, 2009)

*Mexico hired a top PR firm to sell Americans on open borders. *
*----*

*"The Debate Over Immigration & Border Security Continues"*

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

Mexican government officials continue to express their outrage over the United States' attempts to secure and protect our own border. They say that Mexican citizens have every right to enter the United States illegally. Christine Romans has that report.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Mexico, apparently believes the border is there to be crossed by its citizens, not enforced by the United States. This warning from the speaker of Mexico's lower house of congress. "The immigration won't stop, far from it." No surprise really from the government that published a border handbook to help people enter the country illegally and recently hired a top PR firm to sell Americans on porous borders lumping illegal immigrants with those who play by the rules. 

ROB ALLYN, ALLYN & COMPANY, INC: These folks are pioneers, who are coming in search of a better life and the idea is to put the statue of liberty out there, welcoming those workers. 

ROMANS: Border security advocates call it an affront to American sovereignty.


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## Swoop187 (Mar 3, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> *Mexico hired a top PR firm to sell Americans on open borders. *
> *----*
> 
> *"The Debate Over Immigration & Border Security Continues"*
> ...



Yet the majority of liberals want these criminals to be granted full citizenship. 

Never mind the fact thats these illegals jumped the boarder and insulted the good immigrants that have waited in line and have made life changing commitments to become an American. 

Of course Cons love the illegals as well, its cheap labor to them and the last thing they want to see is them being granted citizenship because it means they will have to pay them the same wages American citizens get. 

I hate this country, liberals have illogically and redundantly fucked every American over x 10. 


I want Obama to tell those waiting to enter the country whats going on... lets see how bias that dummy really is.... Whats he going to tell them? better yet whats he going to tell you or me?

Obama doesnt give two shits about the middle class, hes rewarding the welfare idiots with trillions of dollars and going out of his way to keep whites unemployed to create a one class society. 

It sucks, its blunt racism, socialism and I hate this once great nation.


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## WillowTree (Mar 3, 2009)

Breaking News | Latest News | Current News - FOXNews.com


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## Rwefree (Mar 3, 2009)

Legalize cocaine and marijuana and the cartels would disappear.  We could decrease spending and increase revenue for the federal government at the same time.


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## Swoop187 (Mar 3, 2009)

Rwefree said:


> Legalize cocaine and marijuana and the cartels would disappear.  We could decrease spending and increase revenue for the federal government at the same time.



I agree ...


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## WillowTree (Mar 3, 2009)

Rwefree said:


> Legalize cocaine and marijuana and the cartels would disappear.  We could decrease spending and increase revenue for the federal government at the same time.






Legalize cocaine? Not very smart.. I might go with marijuana though.


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## editec (Mar 3, 2009)

The way the war on drugs is conducted is insane.

One cannot declare a war on an inanimate object.

One can only declare war on people.

And that is exactly the outcome, and the outcome is worse than what it is seeking to eradicate.

The Mexican Drug cartels are now kidanapping innocent mexicans to work in hemp fields they are putting in American's national forests in the SW.

These slaves cannot fight back or run away because if they do, their families in Mexico will be killed.

We are empowering CRIMINAL ORGANIZATIONS by giving THEM the EXCLUSIVE FRNACHISE to sell Americans the hemp that they want.

The human suffering that this insane policy is causing on BOTH SIDES OF THE BORDER is inexcusable.

The only _real criminals_ now are the people who support organizaed crime by making hemp cultivation and posssession a crime.


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## WillowTree (Mar 3, 2009)

editec said:


> The way the war on drugs is conducted is insane.
> 
> One cannot declare a war on an inanimate object.
> 
> ...





well DUmmie,, I don't think legalizing drugs like cocaine and heroin is the answer,, now you talk about human suffering... that is human suffering, that's hitting the bottom of the fucking barrel to be hooked on that shit.  Don't make this America's fault.. That is just libral bullshit.
s


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## Wolfmoon (Mar 3, 2009)

*"Home Border & Sovereignty Alert: Bomb Threats, and Explosives Stolen along US Mexican Border" *

February 28, 2009 

Alert: Bomb threats and dangerous explosives being stolen by armed robbers along the U.S. Mexican Border 

Bomb threats at the international airport, Juarez Mexico and the federal courthouse A third bomb threat also caused the closing of the Paso del Norte international border crossing bridge between *El Paso, Texas* and Juarez. Highly explosive materials have been taken by the powerful Mexican Drug Cartels. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) reports, there has been a series of armed thefts of dangerous explosives from storage sites in Mexico these robberies occurred just across the border along the southwest U.S. Mexican border. The (ATF) is reminding all Federal explosives licensees, the importance of security at their explosives storage sites and to take heightened security precautions in light of these thefts. 


Law enforcement on both sides of the border have been notified and alerted to the thefts. The ATF and the explosives industry are to protect the public and as part of this ongoing effort, ATF is advising the explosives industry on new methods to prevent thefts and to prevent terrorists, the Mexican Drug Cartels and those with criminal intent from gaining access to explosive materials. The ATF have created the attached checklist of steps ATF is asking all review the Safety and Security Information for Federal Explosives Licensees and Permittees, this is a publication that ATF produced in partnership with the Institute of Makers of Explosives and the International Society of Explosives Engineers. These are security precautions to prevent thefts and the illegal use of explosives. Any questions contact ATF Field Office. 

Security Checklist
Source:

*http://www.rightsidenews.com/200902283831/border-and-sovereignty/alert-bomb-threats-and-explosives-stolen-along-us-mexican-border.html*


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## dilloduck (Mar 3, 2009)

Dangerous--very very dangerous. Our military got orders to not cross the border even in civies.


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## Wolfmoon (Mar 4, 2009)

The drug cartels are distributing lots of drugs to their own countries people.  Many foreigners South of the border are addicts.  When they come to America they still are users.  Most crime rap sheets of illegal aliens have some kind of drug conviction on them.  We are dealing with dangerous people.  A lot of border jumpers are running from the law in their own countries.  They come here and are repeat criminal offenders.  I wonder how many crimes they commit before they're caught, i.e. murders, rapes, robberies, thefts, pedophiles...

Please circulate

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090304/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_guatemala_prison_riot_2

*"Guatemalan inmates kill, mutilate teacher"*

Mar 3, 11:48 pm ET AP &#8211; 







In this photo released by Guatemala's Voluntary Firefighters Press Office, riot police detain inmates &#8230; 

GUATEMALA CITY &#8211;  Inmates at a Guatemalan *juvenile prison* killed one of their teachers during a riot and mutilated him.  They took three of their teachers hostage to protest the transfer of several of their fellow inmates to another detention center.  Then they killed one of the teachers, Winter Vidaurre and the prisoners removed Vidaurre's *heart*.


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## Ravi (Mar 4, 2009)

You are really obsessed, eh moon-boy?


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## dilloduck (Mar 4, 2009)

Ravi said:


> You are really obsessed, eh moon-boy?



someone needs to be


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## Wolfmoon (Mar 4, 2009)

The drug cartels control the prisoners in Mexico as well as the Gangs and the Mexican Mafia in prisons across America.  They are 10 times worse than the Italian Mafia ever was.  Better make that 100 times worse.

Please circulate

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090304/wl_afp/mexicoprisonriot_20090304194206

*"At least 20 dead in northern Mexico prison uprising"
*





Mexican Army soldiers patrol the empty streets following a wave of *violence sowed by the drug cartels'* &#8230; 

CIUDAD JUAREZ (AFP) &#8211; 20 people were killed during a riot at a prison in the Mexican *border town* of Ciudad Juarez.  The riot took place Juarez's Cereso prison.  "So far, we've found 20 people killed by knives and beaten to death," said the source who said "numerous" inmates were injured in the melee.  Army troops and federal police officers and dozens of soldiers encircled the building, including several who were placed on the roof of the prison while helicopters conducted flights over the area.


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## Wolfmoon (Apr 20, 2009)

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES
Text of Legislation 

*March 10, 2009*

The drug trafficking organizations in Mexico are well organized, heavily armed, and wealthy criminal enterprises, with estimated criminal earnings of more than $25,000,000,000 every year. Whereas it is estimated that Mexican drug trafficking organizations produce 8 metric tons of heroin and 10,000 metric tons of marijuana each year.


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## Iriemon (Apr 20, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Wolfmoon said:
> 
> 
> > Based on a review of the data, interviews conducted and other information collected, Subcommittee staff finds that:
> ...



Who in America are you hoping to shoot?


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## Iriemon (Apr 20, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> > legalize all drugs...put monies from the so called "drug war" into other things...
> ...



Legalization of drugs would provide many benefits, not the least of which would be eliminating the profits of the narco gangs.   Also corruption, distribution of impure drugs, elimination of pushers, taxation benefits to fund treatment, decriminilization of tens of millions of Americans, reduction of herds of incarcerted people whose only offense was drug related.  Just a few off the top of my head.

Against that the possibility of maybe more drug users.

Seems like a pretty high net gain.  Just like when we repealed alcohol prohibition.

What benefit to society do we get from legalizing murder?


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## Iriemon (Apr 20, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> Based on a review of the data, interviews conducted and other information collected, Subcommittee staff finds that:
> 
> 
> 1. Drug trafficking organizations and human smuggling networks are proliferating and strengthening their control of key corridors along our Nations Southwest border.
> ...



Legalize and eliminate profit from the equation.  End of gangs.


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## Iriemon (Apr 20, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> > legalize all drugs...put monies from the so called "drug war" into other things...
> ...



Legalizing drugs in Mexico wouldn't do a thing to stop the drug gangs which profit from smuggling it into the US.


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## Iriemon (Apr 20, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> > I can see you're going to be a lot of fun to talk to.
> ...



Same way you stop them from getting cigarettes and alcohol now.


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## LaLinda75 (Apr 20, 2009)

*What do you people expect when you put a man into the highest office who has absolutely NO clue?????
As for drugs being in demand here, fyi they are in demand everywhere! And yes, including Mexico and all throughout latin america!  What came first? The chicken or the egg??? In other words, who came first? The drug user or the drug???*


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## Iriemon (Apr 20, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> michiganFats said:
> 
> 
> > At this point, I don't think this is an issue for the Border Patrol. It should be handled by the military.
> ...



How much is it going to cost to militarize our border with Mexico?

Is that going to stop the drug trade?


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## Iriemon (Apr 20, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES
> Text of Legislation
> 
> *March 10, 2009*
> ...



That's what you get when you have a high demand product with a limited supplier.   Huge profits.

Eliminate the artificial barrier to supply, eliminate the artificial profit of the illicit supplier.

It worked with the Chicago gangs of the 30s and will work with the gangs of the 00s.


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## editec (Apr 20, 2009)

I heard recently that the Mexican cartels make 80% of the dough off hemp.

Saw a TV progrm recently telling us how they're abducting meixcan nations bringing them into remote places in our nation parks and making them hemp farming slaves.

there is so much money in hemp because it is illegal, that these monsters are better armed than the cops.

You want to take away their money?

Simply enough done: Completely legalize hemp. Don't legalize it, don't tax it, don't pay any more attention to it than we do any other herb.

The market for it evaporates_ instantly_ as millions of American stoners grow their own.

_END of problem._

Or...continue persecuting your fellow Americans and making these Mexican career criminals billionaires who are in the process (thanks to all the money they're making) of destroying Mexico and the American SW.

It's America's call, folks. A stoke of a pen ends this problem.

This mess was created _entirely _by our senseless war on _AMERICAN STONERS,_ and we all know that was _POLITICALLY MOTIVATED_ THANKS TO Nixon, who refued to go along with his own panel of drug experts who told him help was _harmless._

The alcohol prohibition lasted 13 years_._ 

It was a total failure that gave American organized crime far more power and influence than it had previous to alcohol prohibition.

_The prohibition on hemp is going on 76 years._



It continues to fail because it is a crime against_ human nature._

Incidently, the BIGGEST drug problem we have right now is not hemp, or coke, or heroin, or crank ... it's *pharmacueticals.*

We create these problems by attempting to control the population.

Drug laws are really power and control systems.

Our masters use thse laws because they KNOW people will use drugs, ergo they know they can use the fear of idiots to allow them great liberty to take away everybody liberties.

We are reaping what we have sown.


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## catzmeow (Apr 22, 2009)

Iriemon said:


> Legalize and eliminate profit from the equation.  End of gangs.



Naive and incorrect.  Most street gangs in the U.S. aren't heavily involved in drug trafficking anyway, nor do they exist for that purpose.


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## catzmeow (Apr 22, 2009)

editec said:


> Incidently, the BIGGEST drug problem we have right now is not hemp, or coke, or heroin, or crank ... it's *pharmacueticals.*



Actually, it largely depends upon where you are talking about, regionally.  The biggest drug problem in the midwest and northwest is meth.  And, a lot of it comes straight from Mexico.  The odds that methamphetamine could/should be legalized are slim to none.  

If you are talking about the inner city, crack continues to play a huge role there.  And again, it is unlikely to be legalized anytime soon.

Regions of Mexico like Sinaloa are well-known for their production of heroin.

Legalizing marijuana is not going to impact these problems.


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## catzmeow (Apr 22, 2009)

The (mostly nonexistent) Gangs, Drugs and Violence Connection


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## Wolfmoon (Apr 22, 2009)

The government can't even control the borders how will they control legal drugs and the people who use them.  Legalizing drugs will only weaken America to hostile take over by rouge nations.  Perhaps that's why some do want to legalize drugs.

----

In 2008 report by the Department of Justice indicated that Mexican drug trafficking organizations now operate in 195 cities in the United States.   
Text of Legislation


----------



## Iriemon (Apr 22, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> Iriemon said:
> 
> 
> > Legalize and eliminate profit from the equation.  End of gangs.
> ...



I was admittedly overly concise.   But the gangs I was referencied in my statement are the Mexican border smuggling gangs, and I would be surprised to learn that they are not heavily involved in trafficking.  Maybe you can enlighten if you contend otherwise.


----------



## Iriemon (Apr 22, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> The government can't even control the borders how will they control legal drugs and the people who use them.  Legalizing drugs will only weaken America to hostile take over by rouge nations.  Perhaps that's why some do want to legalize drugs.



I don't recall any rouge nations taking over the US the last time a major drug prohibition was repealed.

How will legalizing drugs subject America to takeover by rouge nations, and which rouge nations are going to take us over?


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## catzmeow (Apr 22, 2009)

Iriemon said:


> I was admittedly overly concise.   But the gangs I was referencied in my statement are the Mexican border smuggling gangs, and I would be surprised to learn that they are not heavily involved in trafficking.  Maybe you can enlighten if you contend otherwise.



So, do you plan to legalize methamphetamine, heroine, and cocaine?  Just checking.


----------



## Iriemon (Apr 22, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> Iriemon said:
> 
> 
> > I was admittedly overly concise.   But the gangs I was referencied in my statement are the Mexican border smuggling gangs, and I would be surprised to learn that they are not heavily involved in trafficking.  Maybe you can enlighten if you contend otherwise.
> ...



I could see a good argument for it.  But I agree those are tougher cases.  Start with marijuana.


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## catzmeow (Apr 22, 2009)

Iriemon said:


> I could see a good argument for it.  But I agree those are tougher cases.  Start with marijuana.



Legalize marijuana, and in the words of a gang member I worked with (who sold drugs), "there will always be something to sell, and someone to sell it to."

These drugs appeal to different people.  The person who uses crack is not necessarily the same person who will use meth or pot.  Thus, there will be a continued reason for the existence of these criminal groups.

Question...has legalizing pot in Amsterdam eliminated criminal enterprises distributing drugs there?

For a fact, legalizing marijuana will not impact street gang crime one bit in the U.S.


----------



## Iriemon (Apr 22, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> Iriemon said:
> 
> 
> > I could see a good argument for it.  But I agree those are tougher cases.  Start with marijuana.
> ...



1.  Yes.  You can go into a legal establishment and buy pot.  You are not enriching a criminal organization wehn you do so.

2.  No.  Holland did not fully legalize marajuana; it is still technically illegal and importing large amounts is still a crime with heavy penalities.  Thus their bastardization of legaliztion retains a criminal element to import the drug, which of course would create profits for illegal enterprises.  



> For a fact, legalizing marijuana will not impact street gang crime one bit in the U.S.



Again, my statement about "eliminating the gangs" was specifically addressed to the Mexican drug gangs that smuggle tons of pot into the US.

Legalizing pot would take the profit out of those gangs.  Without money, their effectiveness would be severely diminished.

I agree that the typical gang in the US is probably far less dependent upon marijuana for their profits.  But then again, to the extent they are, it doesn't hurt.


----------



## catzmeow (Apr 22, 2009)

Iriemon said:


> Again, my statement about "eliminating the gangs" was specifically addressed to the Mexican drug gangs that smuggle tons of pot into the US.
> 
> Legalizing pot would take the profit out of those gangs.  Without money, their effectiveness would be severely diminished.
> 
> I agree that the typical gang in the US is probably far less dependent upon marijuana for their profits.  But then again, to the extent they are, it doesn't hurt.



At present, most of the meth consumed in the U.S. is made in Mexico.  We've made the precursor elements illegal in the U.S., so meth labs are more rare.  Almost 100% of the heroin and cocaine trafficked into the U.S. come via Mexico.  

Marijuana is only a small percentage of their business.


----------



## Iriemon (Apr 22, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> Iriemon said:
> 
> 
> > Again, my statement about "eliminating the gangs" was specifically addressed to the Mexican drug gangs that smuggle tons of pot into the US.
> ...



That is a good argument for legalizing these other drugs as well. 

But marijuana accounts for 60% to the Mexican drug gang profit, according to this article. 

_According to U.S. and Mexican officials, some 60 percent of the profits that fuel these thugs come from just one drug, marijuana. _

Stop Subsidizing Mexican Drug Gangs | DrugReporter | AlterNet


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## ItsFairmont (Apr 22, 2009)

Maybe users who are caught should be charged with accomplice to murder (since, if they buy imported drugs, they ARE accomplices to murder).


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## Iriemon (Apr 22, 2009)

ItsFairmont said:


> Maybe users who are caught should be charged with accomplice to murder (since, if they buy imported drugs, they ARE accomplices to murder).



The problem is, laws that draconian never fly when it is your 16 yo kid who gets sentenced for life for smoking a joint.

There are already far to many millions of Americans in jail for a substance less harmful than alcohol.  We are spending far to much money enforce the law, prosecuting them, and jailing them.


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## catzmeow (Apr 23, 2009)

Iriemon said:


> Stop Subsidizing Mexican Drug Gangs | DrugReporter | AlterNet



Alternet is not a reliable source given that they have a clearly declared position on legalization of marijuana.  Try again.  I would like to see something mainstream that relies on law enforcement data. Furthermore, I disagree that the fact that mexican drug gangs are heavily involved in distributing hard drugs in the U.S. is a strong argument in favor of legalizing those drugs.

Have you ever even known a meth addict?


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## editec (Apr 23, 2009)

I heard (on front line, I think) that the Mexican drug cartels make 8 BILLION dollars from the HEMP business.

Legalize it and do NOT try to make it a taxable legal item (that will merely change the crime from smuggling and possession to bootlegging and tax evasion) , and all that profit going to criminal monsters _will evaporate_ in about three months.

HEMP actually supports the OTHER drug smuggling  in that most of the money they make is from that herb so that give them the infrastructure to import other drugs, too.

Anyone who thinks that a stoner culture  in America NEEDS the Mexican cartel IF THEY CAN GROW THEIR OWN HEMP _legally_, simple doesn't understand anything about that herb or underground economics, either.

We hate these criminals, folks.  

We hate them more than you do since their takover of that industry (starting in the 70s)  has driven the cost of hemp from $20 an oz to $200+ an oz, and the QUALITY of their product is mostly K-_RAP_!, too,

You think we WANT to support them and the criminal in the police and justice community who BENEFIT from the continued oppression of twenty-five million Americans _who smoke hemp regularly?_

If America is serious about hurting these criminals it will end the prohibition on hemp _COMPLETELY._

We are not this nations CASH COWS

If we legalize it, and then tax the shit out of it like we've done tobacco, all that does is continue the stupid prohibition game under a different name.

Cost to the USA for complete deciminalization?

*ZERO DOLLARS* 

Cost to the organized crime?

$8_ BILLION_ a year (actually, I'll bet it more than , too)

Your choice, America.

Continue this POLITICALLY MOTIVATED OPPRESSION of the hemp-culture  and we continue supporting CRIMINALS

Leave us  the hell alone and strike a serious blow against organized crime.


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## editec (Apr 23, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> Iriemon said:
> 
> 
> > I could see a good argument for it. But I agree those are tougher cases. Start with marijuana.
> ...


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## Iriemon (Apr 23, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> Iriemon said:
> 
> 
> > Stop Subsidizing Mexican Drug Gangs | DrugReporter | AlterNet
> ...



You asserted marijuana was only a small percentage of their business.  I researched and posted a cite saying otherwise.

You back up your claim.  If you can't we can take your unsupported assertion for what it is worth.



> Have you ever even known a meth addict?



Not an addict.  Have you ever known an alcohol addict?


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## catzmeow (Apr 23, 2009)

editec said:


> Seriously, you're obviously flailing about trying to imagine what is happening without really knowing what you're talking about.



Dude, I was dealing with Sinaloan Cartel members and their wars with our local street gangs before most Americans even knew that cartel existed (and I'd say 90% of Americans still don't).

Right now, I have a desk full of cartel shit seized from drug raids.  My son and I were looking at it this morning during "take your kid to work" day.

So, seriously...from your pedestal in Maine, where I doubt you even deal with Mexican drug cartel members, EVER, give me a fucking break.  You are relying on leftist sources with no practical experience on this topic whatsoever.

When was the last time you were even face to face with an actual Mexican?


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## catzmeow (Apr 23, 2009)

Iriemon said:


> You asserted marijuana was only a small percentage of their business.  I researched and posted a cite saying otherwise.



Alternet was not a reliable source.  YOU ARE THE ONE WHO MADE THE ORIGINAL CLAIM THAT LEGALIZING POT WOULD CAUSE GANGS TO CEASE TO EXIST.  Fucking prove it, with mainstream sources.



> Not an addict.



Then you have no idea what the actual ramifications of legalizing that drug would be.


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## editec (Apr 23, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously, you're obviously flailing about trying to imagine what is happening without really knowing what you're talking about.
> ...


 
I don't need to KNOW a Mexican drug thug to understand that taking the profit out of hemp will hurt their businesses, Catz.

They'll sell something else, you say?

No shit.  They're selling that something else right now, too.

But they'll lose their number ONE CASH COW if we legalize this harmless herb.


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## jillian (Apr 23, 2009)

why would anyone encourage this racist moron?


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## Iriemon (Apr 23, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> Iriemon said:
> 
> 
> > You asserted marijuana was only a small percentage of their business.  I researched and posted a cite saying otherwise.
> ...



FALSE I NEVER MADE THE ORIGINAL CLAIM THAT LEGALIZING POT WOULD CAUSE GANGS TO CEASE TO EXIST.  IF YOU NEED TO SHOUT ABOUT WHAT I CLAIMED IT WOULD BE MORE EFFECTIVE IF YOU WERE ACCURATE.

WHAT I SAID WAS:

"Legalization of drugs would provide many benefits, not the least of which would be eliminating the profits of the narco gangs."  and "Legalize and eliminate profit from the equation. End of gangs."

If the simple but undeniable logic that by eliminating the profit from their activity is not enough to prove my assertion, you need only look at the effect of legalization on the Chicago gangs in the 1920s which fueled their activities by smuggling.

Other source for marijuana being a key component of the Mexican gangs:
_
According to U.S. and Mexican officials, some *60 percent of the profits that fuel Mexican narcotrafficking come from just one drug: marijuana. *Although such estimates are inherently imprecise, *there is no doubt that marijuana is the cash cow that makes these gangs the powerful*, dangerous force they are -- both in Mexico and in the 230 U.S. cities where cartels are thought to operate. The* chief of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration's Mexico and Central America Section recently told the New York Times that marijuana is the "king crop" for Mexican cartels*, because it "consistently sustains its marketability and profitability."_

Opposing Views: OPINION: Only Way to Stop Mexico Drug Gangs is to Legalize Marijuana

_Who'd have thought that by the time his predecessor took office, otherwise conservative officials would be considering another way of smoking out a new and growing threat to Americans' safety: Mexican *drug cartels, whose profits are largely derived from the illegal smuggling and sale of marijuana*.

...  "Well, I don't," said Goddard [Arizon's AG]. "But I do think the debate needs to go forward. We need to find a better way to handle ... Right now, the item that's *fueling the violent cartels, the murders in Mexico, the cartel wars *that are going on right now that have resulted in over 1,000 deaths this year, I think we need to take a very aggressive stand on that and *marijuana is the number one producer for the cartels. Sixty to 70 percent of their gross profits comes from marijuana*. So, I think we need to look very hard at something we haven't looked at for years."_

The Raw Story | Arizona AG: Marijuana legalization could curb Mexican drug cartel warfare

If that is not good enough for you, sorry.  Others can decide for themselves whether they choose to accept the cites I've given versus your unsubstantiate blather that marijuana is only a small percentage of their business.  Or research for themselves.  It's up to them.



> > Not an addict. Have you ever known an alcohol addict?
> 
> 
> 
> Then you have no idea what the actual ramifications of legalizing that drug would be.



Your debate style is you get to ask questions you expect me to answer, but you don't have to answer my questions?

I suppose that would make it easier for you to think your arguments are somehow more persuasive.

I am aware that drugs ruin lives.  By far and away the greatest life ruining drug is in fact alcohol.  If you don't count cigarettes.  So do you support a return to prohibition?

You know a meth addict.  I'm sorry to hear that.  You therefore have tacitly admitted that prohibition policies have failed at preventing this problem and people getting meth if they want it.  

*Why do you support a system you acknowedge implicitly has been a failure?*

With legalization at least people who use these drugs would be getting regulated drugs both in terms of stregnth and purity and therefore be less likely to overdose.  They could also be warned of the dangers of use and their purchase of the drug wouldn't be fueling the criminal enterprise that supplies it.  Maybe instead of spending $30-40 billion a year on drug enforcement and how much more on incarceration the Govt could then afford to provide a decent treatment system to people who want and need it.


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## 007 (Apr 23, 2009)

editec said:


> catzmeow said:
> 
> 
> > editec said:
> ...



I agree. Legalize pot. It's less dangerous than alcohol. 

How about a what if.... what if we criminalize booze and legalize pot? 

I'd go for that. But that wouldn't solve anything.


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## editec (Apr 23, 2009)

> If the simple but undeniable logic that by eliminating the profit from their activity is not enough to prove my assertion, you need only look at the effect of legalization on the Chicago gangs in the 1920s which fueled their activities by smuggling.


 
Hmmmm...anyone notice that immediately AFTER legalizing alcohol America just aHAD to create still another prohibition?

What was REALLY driving that?

I personally think one of the motivators was to give all those freaking prohibitionists something to do.

Not the only motivator, but certainly their influence in government (because they ARE government) must have been powerful.

13 year of alcohol prohibition and we realized our mistake.

76 years of hemp prohibition and we're STILL anamored with that stupid immoral anti liberty system of power and control and taxation by creating crime where NONE exists.

Anyone who continues to support the prohition of hemp is a forking tool or a fool.

Wake the hell up.

This insane belief system (which is entirely unsupportable from the facts about hemp, incidently) have allowed *an extreme dangerous criminal foreign element* to destroy the quality of life in the American SW.

God damned fools!


America is reaping what it has sown, right now.

Base the law on a LIE and CRIMINALS benefit from it.


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## catzmeow (Apr 23, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> I agree. Legalize pot. It's less dangerous than alcohol.
> 
> How about a what if.... what if we criminalize booze and legalize pot?
> 
> I'd go for that. But that wouldn't solve anything.




Finally something we agree on.  Fine, legalize marijuana.  The gangs will still exist, and they'll still be killing each other in our cities.  Legalizing pot is not going to impact that issue.


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## Iriemon (Apr 23, 2009)

editec said:


> > If the simple but undeniable logic that by eliminating the profit from their activity is not enough to prove my assertion, you need only look at the effect of legalization on the Chicago gangs in the 1920s which fueled their activities by smuggling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Politicians, moralists, those with an interest in the the $30-40 billion a year drug law enforcement bureacracy, drug makers, alcohol producers, and drug dealers and smugglers; they have an interest in keeping it illegal.


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## Wolfmoon (Apr 23, 2009)

There's No Way the government is going to legalize drugs or give Amnesty to 20 million illegal aliens. The American people are getting too educated on the damage they both are doing to the United States of America!  The government has their hands full they won't even consider legalizing drugs.  The Whitehouse Press Sec. released a press statement saying, Obama won't talk about Amnesty this year.

----

In 2008 National Drug Threat Assessment by the Department of Justice identified drug organizations from Mexico as the greatest criminal threat to the United States.
Text of Legislation


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## Iriemon (Apr 23, 2009)

Wolfmoon said:


> There's No Way the government is going to legalize drugs or give Amnesty to 20 million illegal aliens. The American people are getting too educated on the damage they both are doing to the United States of America!  The government has their hands full they won't even consider legalizing drugs.  The Whitehouse Press Sec. released a press statement saying, Obama won't talk about Amnesty this year.
> 
> ----
> 
> ...



I agree that political factors reinforces your opinion.  Pity.


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## Wolfmoon (Aug 22, 2012)

Iriemon said:


> Wolfmoon said:
> 
> 
> > The government can't even control the borders how will they control legal drugs and the people who use them. Legalizing drugs will only weaken America to hostile take over by rouge nations. Perhaps that's why some do want to legalize drugs.
> ...


 
While everyone is high on drugs anyone could push us over with a feather.


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## Unkotare (Aug 22, 2012)

strollingbones said:


> legalize all drugs...put monies from the so called "drug war" into other things...





Like burying all the people who die from drug-related causes? Great plan.


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## waltky (Aug 30, 2012)

Marines join war on drugs in Guatemala...

*200 US Marines Join Anti-Drug Effort in Guatemala*
_August 29, 2012  &#8212; A team of 200 U.S. Marines began patrolling Guatemala's western coast this week in an unprecedented operation to beat drug traffickers in the Central America region, a U.S. military spokesman said Wednesday._


> The Marines are deployed as part of Operation Martillo, a broader effort started last Jan. 15 to stop drug trafficking along the Central American coast. Focused exclusively on drug dealers in airplanes or boats, the U.S.-led operation involves troops or law enforcement agents from Belize, Britain, Canada, Colombia, Costa Rica, El Salvador, France, Guatemala, Honduras, the Netherlands, Nicaragua, Panama and Spain.  "This is the first Marine deployment that directly supports countering transnational crime in this area, and it's certainly the largest footprint we've had in that area in quite some time," said Marine Staff Sgt. Earnest Barnes at the U.S. Southern Command in Miami.
> 
> It was 50 years ago when the U.S. military last sent any significant aid and equipment into Guatemala, establishing a base to support counter-insurgency efforts during a guerrilla uprising. That movement led to 36 years of war that left 200,000 dead, mostly indigent Maya farmers. The U.S. pulled out in 1978.  Guatemalan authorities say they signed a treaty allowing the U.S. military to conduct the operations on July 16. Less than a month later an Air Force C-5 transport plane flew into Guatemala City from North Carolina loaded with the Marines and four UH-1 "Huey" helicopters.
> 
> ...



See also:

*Mexicans raise questions over CIA role in drug war*
_Fri, Aug 31, 2012 - Mexican politicians demanded answers from their government on Wednesday after reports that two Americans wounded when federal police opened fire on a US embassy car were working for the CIA._


> The US and Mexican governments have said little about the victims&#8217; work since last week&#8217;s shooting, a silence that has put a spotlight on the growing, but often secretive US role in Mexico&#8217;s brutal drug war.  The left-wing opposition Democratic Revolution Party said it would summon government officials to a Senate hearing in order to clarify the murky role of the US CIA in Mexico.  &#8220;We will ask for a hearing with the public security minister, the foreign minister and the navy to find out what CIA agents are doing in Mexico and why they are fighting each other,&#8221; Senator Mario Delgo told MVS radio.
> 
> Washington works closely with Mexican President Felipe Calderon&#8217;s government against drug smuggling under the US$1.6 billion Merida Initiative, providing training for law enforcement officials and equipment, including Black Hawk helicopters.  After days of feverish speculation here about who the wounded Americans were working for, the New York Times reported Wednesday that the pair were employed by the CIA as part of an anti-drug task force.  However, the Mexican daily El Universal, citing a confidential official report, said they were CIA agents who supervise instructors at a navy shooting range.  The CIA and Mexican foreign ministry declined to comment. Calderon voiced regret over the incident on Tuesday and pledged an exhaustive investigation.
> 
> ...


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