# Illegal Employer Problem



## sealybobo

Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?  

Here are three great articles on the subject:

ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)

ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon


ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"


----------



## Walt

Sealybobo, I agree that the repubs, do not help the situation at all with their hiring of illegals. However I also see that the majority, if not all, mayors of sanctuary cities are dems { I cannot think of a mayor who is a repub doing this}. Also dems also own business and hire illegals. So what we get is a bunch of bloviating rhetoric from both sides while the problem continues. All I can think of when it comes to our politicans "talking" about solving problems is Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles pounding his desk saying "we have to protect our phoney baloney jobs gentelmen". Alot of talk, while things continue to deteroriate and nothing really worth while gets accomplished. IMHO.


----------



## 007

Liberals are to blame for the illegals 'more' than conservatives. Liberals want to give them drivers licenses, liberals want them to be able to vote, liberals don't want a fence, liberals convict good border guards like Ramos and Compean, liberals create sanctuary cities NYC and San Franqueerco, liberals want to call them undocumented immigrants instead of what they are, ILLEGAL ALIENS... shall I go on?

Sure there's a repub or two that are sell outs, like bush and mcamnesty, but not many otherwise. You liberals have always been illegal alien coddlers and excuse makers. Just ask one like Sky Dancer.

I agree 100% with one point you've made, and that's that if no one would hire them, they'd have no reason to come here, but liberals have also fought against E-verify, which conservatives support.

So sorry, but you argue a losing battle when you try and blame conservatives for the illegal alien problem and not the liberals.


----------



## Wolfmoon

What about making the American employers obey the local, state and federal laws already on the books. Americans should report any employer hiring illegal aliens. If the employers can't make a living without lying, cheating and breaking the laws. Maybe, the employer shouldn't be in business in the first place and the employer should go get a job!



Excerpt:

Sec. 274A. [8 U.S.C. 1324a]

(a) Making Employment of Unauthorized Aliens Unlawful.-
(1) In general.-It is unlawful for a person or other entity-
(A) to hire, or to recruit or refer for a fee, for employment in the United States an alien
knowing the alien is an unauthorized alien (as defined in subsection (h)(3)) with respect to such
employment, or

.ExternalClass DIV{;}
*[PDF] http://www.uscis.gov/propub/DocView/slbid/1/2/111?hilite=*


*124k - Adobe PDF - View as html*
*... Employment of Unauthorized Aliens ... is unlawful for a person or other entity, after hiring an alien for ... 274A - UNLAWFUL *


----------



## Harry Dresden

Wolfmoon said:


> What about making the American employers obey the local, state and federal laws already on the books. Americans should report any employer hiring illegal aliens. If the employers can't make a living without lying, cheating and breaking the laws. Maybe, the employer shouldn't be in business in the first place and the employer should go get a job!
> 
> 
> the thing is.....WHO is going to make them obey those laws?......the Feds? the State?....as you can see they are both doing bang up jobs....and as for Americans reporting them.....good luck,the Ball Game,American Idol and So You Think You Can Dance  take precedence over this kind of stuff.....just sayin....


----------



## sealybobo

sealybobo said:


> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"



BrokeLoser eat my fucking ass.  This was me in 2009 and these articles are Thom Hartmann 2006.

Show me that Republicans were on the right side of this issue even last year let along a decade ago. You dishonest fuck.


----------



## sealybobo

Walt said:


> Sealybobo, I agree that the repubs, do not help the situation at all with their hiring of illegals. However I also see that the majority, if not all, mayors of sanctuary cities are dems { I cannot think of a mayor who is a repub doing this}. Also dems also own business and hire illegals. So what we get is a bunch of bloviating rhetoric from both sides while the problem continues. All I can think of when it comes to our politicans "talking" about solving problems is Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles pounding his desk saying "we have to protect our phoney baloney jobs gentelmen". Alot of talk, while things continue to deteroriate and nothing really worth while gets accomplished. IMHO.



Here is a great example of how the Republicans have completely changed.  Reagan and Bush and McCain and Romney and the GOP were very soft on illegals.  Trump sounds nothing like them.  This is one of the things I like about Trump.  

The GOP's Evolution On Immigration

Reagan speaking about Mexico said "Rather than talking about putting up a fence," the future president said. "Why don't we work out some recognition of our mutual problems?"

On the stage debating him that day was another 1980 GOP presidential hopeful and future president, George H.W. Bush. He was asked by an audience member if children in the country illegally should be allowed to attend U.S. public schools.

Bush didn't hesitate, saying he doesn't want to see 6- or 8-year-olds being uneducated or "made to feel that they're living outside the law."

A couple of decades later, the presidency of George W. Bush brought another major push for immigration overhaul. Former Bush press secretary Ari Fleischer notes that the 43rd president's campaign slogan of "compassionate conservatism" applied to immigration.

Fleischer says that because Bush had been governor of Texas, he had a realistic view of who was coming across the border. "As a border governor, he had a personal understanding and a personal relationship with many of the immigrants who crossed the Rio Grande and came to Texas for work and liberty and for America's opportunity," Fleischer said.

Bush proposed changes to U.S. immigration law at an event at the White House in January 2004 that would make it easier for people to cross back and forth over the border to work legally in the United States. Bush described the problems he saw brought about by existing law. "Many undocumented workers walked mile after mile, through heat of day and cold of the night. Some have risked their lives in dangerous desert border crossings," Bush said. "Workers who seek only to earn a living end up in the shadows of American life."


----------



## sealybobo

007 said:


> Liberals are to blame for the illegals 'more' than conservatives. Liberals want to give them drivers licenses, liberals want them to be able to vote, liberals don't want a fence, liberals convict good border guards like Ramos and Compean, liberals create sanctuary cities NYC and San Franqueerco, liberals want to call them undocumented immigrants instead of what they are, ILLEGAL ALIENS... shall I go on?
> 
> Sure there's a repub or two that are sell outs, like bush and mcamnesty, but not many otherwise. You liberals have always been illegal alien coddlers and excuse makers. Just ask one like Sky Dancer.
> 
> I agree 100% with one point you've made, and that's that if no one would hire them, they'd have no reason to come here, but liberals have also fought against E-verify, which conservatives support.
> 
> So sorry, but you argue a losing battle when you try and blame conservatives for the illegal alien problem and not the liberals.


As I said before, it's an illegal employer problem!!!  Was I right or what?

Don't build a wall.  Go after the illegal employers and the problem will stop

The man accused of pursuing and killing 20-year-old Mollie Tibbetts had worked four years at an Iowa dairy farm based on false identification, his employer said Wednesday.

"What we learned in the last 24 hours is that our employee was not who he said he was," said Dane Lang, the co-owner and manager of Yarrabee Farms.

Bullshit!!!

Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"


----------



## sealybobo

Walt said:


> Sealybobo, I agree that the repubs, do not help the situation at all with their hiring of illegals. However I also see that the majority, if not all, mayors of sanctuary cities are dems { I cannot think of a mayor who is a repub doing this}. Also dems also own business and hire illegals. So what we get is a bunch of bloviating rhetoric from both sides while the problem continues. All I can think of when it comes to our politicans "talking" about solving problems is Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles pounding his desk saying "we have to protect our phoney baloney jobs gentelmen". Alot of talk, while things continue to deteroriate and nothing really worth while gets accomplished. IMHO.


Encouraging a rapid increase in the workforce by encouraging companies to hire non-citizens is one of the three most potent tools conservatives since Ronald Reagan have used to convert the American middle class into the American working poor. (The other two are destroying the governmental protections that keep labor unions viable, and ending tariffs while promoting trade deals like NAFTA/WTO/GATT that export manufacturing jobs.)


----------



## sealybobo

But Dobbs and his fellow Republicans say the solution is to "secure our border" with a fence like that used by East Germany, but that stretches a distance about the same as that from Washington, DC to Chicago. It'll be a multi-billion-dollar boon to Halliburton and Bechtel, who will undoubtedly get the construction and maintenance contracts, but it won't stop illegal immigration. (Instead, people will legally come in on tourist and other visas, and not leave when their visas expire.)


----------



## sealybobo

The fact is that we had an open border with Mexico for several centuries, and "illegal immigration" was never a serious problem. Before Reagan's presidency, an estimated million or so people a year came into the US from Mexico - and the same number, more or less, left the US for Mexico at the end of the agricultural harvest season. Very few stayed, because there weren't jobs for them.

Non-citizens didn't have access to the non-agricultural US job market, in large part because of the power of US labor unions (before Reagan 25% of the workforce was unionized; today the private workforce is about 7% unionized), and because companies were unwilling to risk having non-tax-deductible labor expenses on their books by hiring undocumented workers without valid Social Security numbers.

But Reagan put an end to that. His 1986 amnesty program, combined with his aggressive war on organized labor (begun in 1981), in effect told both employers and non-citizens that there would be few penalties and many rewards to increasing the US labor pool (and thus driving down wages) with undocumented immigrants. A million people a year continued to come across our southern border, but they stopped returning to Latin America every fall because instead of seasonal work they were able to find permanent jobs.

The magnet drawing them? Illegal Employers.

Yet in the American media, Illegal Employers are almost never mentioned.

Lou Dobbs, the most visible media champion of this issue, always starts his discussion of the issue with a basic syllogism - 1. Our border is porous. 2. People are coming across our porous border and diluting our labor markets, driving down US wages. 3. Therefore we must make the border less porous.

Lou's syllogism, however, ignores the real problem, the magnet drawing people to risk life and limb to illegally enter this country - Illegal Employers. Our borders have always been porous (and even with a "fence" will still allow through "tourists" by the millions), but we've never had a problem like this before.

Yet fifty years ago we didn't have an "illegal immigration" problem, because back then we didn't have a conservative "Illegal Employer" problem.


----------



## Indeependent

Both parties are to blame and that’s why I voted for Trump.


----------



## joaquinmiller

Indeependent said:


> Both parties are to blame and that’s why I voted for Trump.



That is to say, The Republican.


----------



## Indeependent

joaquinmiller said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both parties are to blame and that’s why I voted for Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is to say, The Republican.
Click to expand...

Trump is neither.


----------



## Dan Stubbs

Walt said:


> Sealybobo, I agree that the repubs, do not help the situation at all with their hiring of illegals. However I also see that the majority, if not all, mayors of sanctuary cities are dems { I cannot think of a mayor who is a repub doing this}. Also dems also own business and hire illegals. So what we get is a bunch of bloviating rhetoric from both sides while the problem continues. All I can think of when it comes to our politicans "talking" about solving problems is Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles pounding his desk saying "we have to protect our phoney baloney jobs gentelmen". Alot of talk, while things continue to deteroriate and nothing really worth while gets accomplished. IMHO.


*The fact is that the whole problem is cheap labor.  Bush as well as Obama, Soros, Buffet all want cheap labor < They are the reasons this problem has not been put under control   Many people from Mexico came across the border worked and returned home until things got hard at the border.  Green card workers worked for min pay.  We do need to change and get control at the boarder for time have changed.  


 *


----------



## Wyatt earp

sealybobo said:


> The fact is that we had an open border with Mexico for several centuries, and "illegal immigration" was never a serious problem. Before Reagan's presidency, an estimated million or so people a year came into the US from Mexico - and the same number, more or less, left the US for Mexico at the end of the agricultural harvest season. Very few stayed, because there weren't jobs for them.
> 
> Non-citizens didn't have access to the non-agricultural US job market, in large part because of the power of US labor unions (before Reagan 25% of the workforce was unionized; today the private workforce is about 7% unionized), and because companies were unwilling to risk having non-tax-deductible labor expenses on their books by hiring undocumented workers without valid Social Security numbers.
> 
> But Reagan put an end to that. His 1986 amnesty program, combined with his aggressive war on organized labor (begun in 1981), in effect told both employers and non-citizens that there would be few penalties and many rewards to increasing the US labor pool (and thus driving down wages) with undocumented immigrants. A million people a year continued to come across our southern border, but they stopped returning to Latin America every fall because instead of seasonal work they were able to find permanent jobs.
> 
> The magnet drawing them? Illegal Employers.
> 
> Yet in the American media, Illegal Employers are almost never mentioned.
> 
> Lou Dobbs, the most visible media champion of this issue, always starts his discussion of the issue with a basic syllogism - 1. Our border is porous. 2. People are coming across our porous border and diluting our labor markets, driving down US wages. 3. Therefore we must make the border less porous.
> 
> Lou's syllogism, however, ignores the real problem, the magnet drawing people to risk life and limb to illegally enter this country - Illegal Employers. Our borders have always been porous (and even with a "fence" will still allow through "tourists" by the millions), but we've never had a problem like this before.
> 
> Yet fifty years ago we didn't have an "illegal immigration" problem, because back then we didn't have a conservative "Illegal Employer" problem.





It was a good post till you said illegal employers were never mentioned in the press, if they were not mentioned how do we know about it????


----------



## saveliberty

sealybobo said:


> The fact is that we had an open border with Mexico for several centuries, and "illegal immigration" was never a serious problem. Before Reagan's presidency, an estimated million or so people a year came into the US from Mexico - and the same number, more or less, left the US for Mexico at the end of the agricultural harvest season. Very few stayed, because there weren't jobs for them.
> 
> Non-citizens didn't have access to the non-agricultural US job market, in large part because of the power of US labor unions (before Reagan 25% of the workforce was unionized; today the private workforce is about 7% unionized), and because companies were unwilling to risk having non-tax-deductible labor expenses on their books by hiring undocumented workers without valid Social Security numbers.
> 
> But Reagan put an end to that. His 1986 amnesty program, combined with his aggressive war on organized labor (begun in 1981), in effect told both employers and non-citizens that there would be few penalties and many rewards to increasing the US labor pool (and thus driving down wages) with undocumented immigrants. A million people a year continued to come across our southern border, but they stopped returning to Latin America every fall because instead of seasonal work they were able to find permanent jobs.
> 
> The magnet drawing them? Illegal Employers.
> 
> Yet in the American media, Illegal Employers are almost never mentioned.
> 
> Lou Dobbs, the most visible media champion of this issue, always starts his discussion of the issue with a basic syllogism - 1. Our border is porous. 2. People are coming across our porous border and diluting our labor markets, driving down US wages. 3. Therefore we must make the border less porous.
> 
> Lou's syllogism, however, ignores the real problem, the magnet drawing people to risk life and limb to illegally enter this country - Illegal Employers. Our borders have always been porous (and even with a "fence" will still allow through "tourists" by the millions), but we've never had a problem like this before.
> 
> Yet fifty years ago we didn't have an "illegal immigration" problem, because back then we didn't have a conservative "Illegal Employer" problem.



Interesting you pick that time frame and ignore the Mexican drug cartels and gangs.  If employment was the only problem with illegals, you might have a case.  As it is, fining illegal employers would help, but many are here in gangs and other illegal businesses, so it is not a cure all.


----------



## sealybobo

bear513 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is that we had an open border with Mexico for several centuries, and "illegal immigration" was never a serious problem. Before Reagan's presidency, an estimated million or so people a year came into the US from Mexico - and the same number, more or less, left the US for Mexico at the end of the agricultural harvest season. Very few stayed, because there weren't jobs for them.
> 
> Non-citizens didn't have access to the non-agricultural US job market, in large part because of the power of US labor unions (before Reagan 25% of the workforce was unionized; today the private workforce is about 7% unionized), and because companies were unwilling to risk having non-tax-deductible labor expenses on their books by hiring undocumented workers without valid Social Security numbers.
> 
> But Reagan put an end to that. His 1986 amnesty program, combined with his aggressive war on organized labor (begun in 1981), in effect told both employers and non-citizens that there would be few penalties and many rewards to increasing the US labor pool (and thus driving down wages) with undocumented immigrants. A million people a year continued to come across our southern border, but they stopped returning to Latin America every fall because instead of seasonal work they were able to find permanent jobs.
> 
> The magnet drawing them? Illegal Employers.
> 
> Yet in the American media, Illegal Employers are almost never mentioned.
> 
> Lou Dobbs, the most visible media champion of this issue, always starts his discussion of the issue with a basic syllogism - 1. Our border is porous. 2. People are coming across our porous border and diluting our labor markets, driving down US wages. 3. Therefore we must make the border less porous.
> 
> Lou's syllogism, however, ignores the real problem, the magnet drawing people to risk life and limb to illegally enter this country - Illegal Employers. Our borders have always been porous (and even with a "fence" will still allow through "tourists" by the millions), but we've never had a problem like this before.
> 
> Yet fifty years ago we didn't have an "illegal immigration" problem, because back then we didn't have a conservative "Illegal Employer" problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was a good post till you said illegal employers were never mentioned in the press, if they were not mentioned how do we know about it????
Click to expand...

That was a 2006 op ed. Back when we were anti illegals but you Neocons were not. Half of you got it but the corporatist ran your party and they swore they were just doing jobs Americans wouldn’t do.

Then came trump now the racist side of the Republican Party now runs the White House.

Not the senate of house. They are still corporatist. So are democrats. This is one issue I side with trump and the racist republicans.

I don’t care what color the immigrants are they are deluding our job market with low wage workers and that keeps wages down. Slow down immigration and fuck growth. Worry about middle class wages then growth next.


----------



## sealybobo

saveliberty said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is that we had an open border with Mexico for several centuries, and "illegal immigration" was never a serious problem. Before Reagan's presidency, an estimated million or so people a year came into the US from Mexico - and the same number, more or less, left the US for Mexico at the end of the agricultural harvest season. Very few stayed, because there weren't jobs for them.
> 
> Non-citizens didn't have access to the non-agricultural US job market, in large part because of the power of US labor unions (before Reagan 25% of the workforce was unionized; today the private workforce is about 7% unionized), and because companies were unwilling to risk having non-tax-deductible labor expenses on their books by hiring undocumented workers without valid Social Security numbers.
> 
> But Reagan put an end to that. His 1986 amnesty program, combined with his aggressive war on organized labor (begun in 1981), in effect told both employers and non-citizens that there would be few penalties and many rewards to increasing the US labor pool (and thus driving down wages) with undocumented immigrants. A million people a year continued to come across our southern border, but they stopped returning to Latin America every fall because instead of seasonal work they were able to find permanent jobs.
> 
> The magnet drawing them? Illegal Employers.
> 
> Yet in the American media, Illegal Employers are almost never mentioned.
> 
> Lou Dobbs, the most visible media champion of this issue, always starts his discussion of the issue with a basic syllogism - 1. Our border is porous. 2. People are coming across our porous border and diluting our labor markets, driving down US wages. 3. Therefore we must make the border less porous.
> 
> Lou's syllogism, however, ignores the real problem, the magnet drawing people to risk life and limb to illegally enter this country - Illegal Employers. Our borders have always been porous (and even with a "fence" will still allow through "tourists" by the millions), but we've never had a problem like this before.
> 
> Yet fifty years ago we didn't have an "illegal immigration" problem, because back then we didn't have a conservative "Illegal Employer" problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting you pick that time frame and ignore the Mexican drug cartels and gangs.  If employment was the only problem with illegals, you might have a case.  As it is, fining illegal employers would help, but many are here in gangs and other illegal businesses, so it is not a cure all.
Click to expand...

Neither is an expensive wall.

I hope we move our military to the border. Do you know how many privates in the military are sitting around doing nothing?

Where do we fight wars now? The hot Middle East? Seems like the border is the perfect place to train them. We make privates in boot camp hike long distances, right? Patrol the god damn border!


----------



## saveliberty

sealybobo said:


> Neither is an expensive wall.
> 
> I hope we move our military to the border. Do you know how many privates in the military are sitting around doing nothing?
> 
> Where do we fight wars now? The hot Middle East? Seems like the border is the perfect place to train them. We make privates in boot camp hike long distances, right? Patrol the god damn border!



Maybe the National Guard, but I am against military operations within our borders.  Illegal employers are basically the head of the snake.  I have thought more aggressive fines and investigations would bear fruit.


----------



## sealybobo

saveliberty said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither is an expensive wall.
> 
> I hope we move our military to the border. Do you know how many privates in the military are sitting around doing nothing?
> 
> Where do we fight wars now? The hot Middle East? Seems like the border is the perfect place to train them. We make privates in boot camp hike long distances, right? Patrol the god damn border!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe the National Guard, but I am against military operations within our borders.  Illegal employers are basically the head of the snake.  I have thought more aggressive fines and investigations would bear fruit.
Click to expand...

Why do you mind military operations within our borders?


----------



## saveliberty

sealybobo said:


> Why do you mind military operations within our borders?



Historically the military has overstepped their powers when deployed domestically.  Not here per say.


----------



## sealybobo

saveliberty said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you mind military operations within our borders?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Historically the military has overstepped their powers when deployed domestically.  Not here per say.
Click to expand...

Just patrol the border. If bad hombres are getting in I don’t want just the national guard if that’s not gonna do it


----------



## Wyatt earp

sealybobo said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is that we had an open border with Mexico for several centuries, and "illegal immigration" was never a serious problem. Before Reagan's presidency, an estimated million or so people a year came into the US from Mexico - and the same number, more or less, left the US for Mexico at the end of the agricultural harvest season. Very few stayed, because there weren't jobs for them.
> 
> Non-citizens didn't have access to the non-agricultural US job market, in large part because of the power of US labor unions (before Reagan 25% of the workforce was unionized; today the private workforce is about 7% unionized), and because companies were unwilling to risk having non-tax-deductible labor expenses on their books by hiring undocumented workers without valid Social Security numbers.
> 
> But Reagan put an end to that. His 1986 amnesty program, combined with his aggressive war on organized labor (begun in 1981), in effect told both employers and non-citizens that there would be few penalties and many rewards to increasing the US labor pool (and thus driving down wages) with undocumented immigrants. A million people a year continued to come across our southern border, but they stopped returning to Latin America every fall because instead of seasonal work they were able to find permanent jobs.
> 
> The magnet drawing them? Illegal Employers.
> 
> Yet in the American media, Illegal Employers are almost never mentioned.
> 
> Lou Dobbs, the most visible media champion of this issue, always starts his discussion of the issue with a basic syllogism - 1. Our border is porous. 2. People are coming across our porous border and diluting our labor markets, driving down US wages. 3. Therefore we must make the border less porous.
> 
> Lou's syllogism, however, ignores the real problem, the magnet drawing people to risk life and limb to illegally enter this country - Illegal Employers. Our borders have always been porous (and even with a "fence" will still allow through "tourists" by the millions), but we've never had a problem like this before.
> 
> Yet fifty years ago we didn't have an "illegal immigration" problem, because back then we didn't have a conservative "Illegal Employer" problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was a good post till you said illegal employers were never mentioned in the press, if they were not mentioned how do we know about it????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was a 2006 op ed. Back when we were anti illegals but you Neocons were not. Half of you got it but the corporatist ran your party and they swore they were just doing jobs Americans wouldn’t do.
> 
> Then came trump now the racist side of the Republican Party now runs the White House.
> 
> Not the senate of house. They are still corporatist. So are democrats. This is one issue I side with trump and the racist republicans.
> 
> I don’t care what color the immigrants are they are deluding our job market with low wage workers and that keeps wages down. Slow down immigration and fuck growth. Worry about middle class wages then growth next.
Click to expand...



Most we're always anti ilegals, I know I was even in the 80s, it was supposed to be a one time deal with Regean


----------



## sealybobo

Walt said:


> Sealybobo, I agree that the repubs, do not help the situation at all with their hiring of illegals. However I also see that the majority, if not all, mayors of sanctuary cities are dems { I cannot think of a mayor who is a repub doing this}. Also dems also own business and hire illegals. So what we get is a bunch of bloviating rhetoric from both sides while the problem continues. All I can think of when it comes to our politicans "talking" about solving problems is Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles pounding his desk saying "we have to protect our phoney baloney jobs gentelmen". Alot of talk, while things continue to deteroriate and nothing really worth while gets accomplished. IMHO.



Was I right or was I right?  See?  We have an illegal employer problem.  Did you hear about the raids in Mississippi and Alabama?

One of the plants is owned by Koch Foods Inc., which bills itself as one of the largest poultry processors in the U.S. with more than 13,000 employees. _Forbes _ranks it as the 135th largest privately held company in the country, with an estimated $3.2 billion in annual revenue, according to _Fortune_.

Another plant raided Wednesday is in Canton, Miss., and is owned by Peco Foods Inc., based in Tuscaloosa, Ala. It is the eighth-largest poultry producer in the U.S., according to the company's website.

If Trump starts going after illegal employers, I will be impressed.


----------



## sealybobo

bear513 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is that we had an open border with Mexico for several centuries, and "illegal immigration" was never a serious problem. Before Reagan's presidency, an estimated million or so people a year came into the US from Mexico - and the same number, more or less, left the US for Mexico at the end of the agricultural harvest season. Very few stayed, because there weren't jobs for them.
> 
> Non-citizens didn't have access to the non-agricultural US job market, in large part because of the power of US labor unions (before Reagan 25% of the workforce was unionized; today the private workforce is about 7% unionized), and because companies were unwilling to risk having non-tax-deductible labor expenses on their books by hiring undocumented workers without valid Social Security numbers.
> 
> But Reagan put an end to that. His 1986 amnesty program, combined with his aggressive war on organized labor (begun in 1981), in effect told both employers and non-citizens that there would be few penalties and many rewards to increasing the US labor pool (and thus driving down wages) with undocumented immigrants. A million people a year continued to come across our southern border, but they stopped returning to Latin America every fall because instead of seasonal work they were able to find permanent jobs.
> 
> The magnet drawing them? Illegal Employers.
> 
> Yet in the American media, Illegal Employers are almost never mentioned.
> 
> Lou Dobbs, the most visible media champion of this issue, always starts his discussion of the issue with a basic syllogism - 1. Our border is porous. 2. People are coming across our porous border and diluting our labor markets, driving down US wages. 3. Therefore we must make the border less porous.
> 
> Lou's syllogism, however, ignores the real problem, the magnet drawing people to risk life and limb to illegally enter this country - Illegal Employers. Our borders have always been porous (and even with a "fence" will still allow through "tourists" by the millions), but we've never had a problem like this before.
> 
> Yet fifty years ago we didn't have an "illegal immigration" problem, because back then we didn't have a conservative "Illegal Employer" problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was a good post till you said illegal employers were never mentioned in the press, if they were not mentioned how do we know about it????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was a 2006 op ed. Back when we were anti illegals but you Neocons were not. Half of you got it but the corporatist ran your party and they swore they were just doing jobs Americans wouldn’t do.
> 
> Then came trump now the racist side of the Republican Party now runs the White House.
> 
> Not the senate of house. They are still corporatist. So are democrats. This is one issue I side with trump and the racist republicans.
> 
> I don’t care what color the immigrants are they are deluding our job market with low wage workers and that keeps wages down. Slow down immigration and fuck growth. Worry about middle class wages then growth next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Most we're always anti ilegals, I know I was even in the 80s, it was supposed to be a one time deal with Regean
Click to expand...


Chicken plants raided by ICE 'willfully and unlawfully' hired unauthorized workers: court documents

Handcuffed workers await transportation to a processing center following a raid by U.S. immigration officials at Koch Foods Inc., plant in Morton, Miss. U.S. immigration officials raided several Mississippi food processing plants on Wednesday and signaled that the early-morning strikes were part of a large-scale operation targeting owners as well as employees. 

Morton, MISS is not a sanctuary city

*Koch Foods* is a *food* processor and distributor in Park Ridge, Illinois that is listed by Forbes Magazine as number 163 on the list of the largest private companies in the US. As of October 2014, the *company* had a revenue of $3 billion, and approximately 14,000 employees. The *company* is *owned* by Joseph Grendys.

Why isn't Joseph Grendys in jail?


----------



## Wyatt earp

sealybobo said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is that we had an open border with Mexico for several centuries, and "illegal immigration" was never a serious problem. Before Reagan's presidency, an estimated million or so people a year came into the US from Mexico - and the same number, more or less, left the US for Mexico at the end of the agricultural harvest season. Very few stayed, because there weren't jobs for them.
> 
> Non-citizens didn't have access to the non-agricultural US job market, in large part because of the power of US labor unions (before Reagan 25% of the workforce was unionized; today the private workforce is about 7% unionized), and because companies were unwilling to risk having non-tax-deductible labor expenses on their books by hiring undocumented workers without valid Social Security numbers.
> 
> But Reagan put an end to that. His 1986 amnesty program, combined with his aggressive war on organized labor (begun in 1981), in effect told both employers and non-citizens that there would be few penalties and many rewards to increasing the US labor pool (and thus driving down wages) with undocumented immigrants. A million people a year continued to come across our southern border, but they stopped returning to Latin America every fall because instead of seasonal work they were able to find permanent jobs.
> 
> The magnet drawing them? Illegal Employers.
> 
> Yet in the American media, Illegal Employers are almost never mentioned.
> 
> Lou Dobbs, the most visible media champion of this issue, always starts his discussion of the issue with a basic syllogism - 1. Our border is porous. 2. People are coming across our porous border and diluting our labor markets, driving down US wages. 3. Therefore we must make the border less porous.
> 
> Lou's syllogism, however, ignores the real problem, the magnet drawing people to risk life and limb to illegally enter this country - Illegal Employers. Our borders have always been porous (and even with a "fence" will still allow through "tourists" by the millions), but we've never had a problem like this before.
> 
> Yet fifty years ago we didn't have an "illegal immigration" problem, because back then we didn't have a conservative "Illegal Employer" problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was a good post till you said illegal employers were never mentioned in the press, if they were not mentioned how do we know about it????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was a 2006 op ed. Back when we were anti illegals but you Neocons were not. Half of you got it but the corporatist ran your party and they swore they were just doing jobs Americans wouldn’t do.
> 
> Then came trump now the racist side of the Republican Party now runs the White House.
> 
> Not the senate of house. They are still corporatist. So are democrats. This is one issue I side with trump and the racist republicans.
> 
> I don’t care what color the immigrants are they are deluding our job market with low wage workers and that keeps wages down. Slow down immigration and fuck growth. Worry about middle class wages then growth next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Most we're always anti ilegals, I know I was even in the 80s, it was supposed to be a one time deal with Regean
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Chicken plants raided by ICE 'willfully and unlawfully' hired unauthorized workers: court documents
> 
> Handcuffed workers await transportation to a processing center following a raid by U.S. immigration officials at Koch Foods Inc., plant in Morton, Miss. U.S. immigration officials raided several Mississippi food processing plants on Wednesday and signaled that the early-morning strikes were part of a large-scale operation targeting owners as well as employees.
> 
> Morton, MISS is not a sanctuary city
> 
> *Koch Foods* is a *food* processor and distributor in Park Ridge, Illinois that is listed by Forbes Magazine as number 163 on the list of the largest private companies in the US. As of October 2014, the *company* had a revenue of $3 billion, and approximately 14,000 employees. The *company* is *owned* by Joseph Grendys.
> 
> Why isn't Joseph Grendys in jail?
Click to expand...


Why would he be? He doesn't micro manage the place


----------



## Jets

Neither Party is without blame here. Between those that want cheap labor and those that are pandering for votes, immigration serves as the perfect wedge issue. Why solve a problem when it makes for great campaign fodder...


----------



## danielpalos

sealybobo said:


> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"


We need better solutions at lower cost.  We should not be losing money on border policy.


----------



## Taz

danielpalos said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> We need better solutions at lower cost.  We should not be losing money on border policy.
Click to expand...

Do you only have like 10 stock phrases that you paste over and over again? You should seriously think about shutting the fuck up.


----------



## OldLady

sealybobo said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is that we had an open border with Mexico for several centuries, and "illegal immigration" was never a serious problem. Before Reagan's presidency, an estimated million or so people a year came into the US from Mexico - and the same number, more or less, left the US for Mexico at the end of the agricultural harvest season. Very few stayed, because there weren't jobs for them.
> 
> Non-citizens didn't have access to the non-agricultural US job market, in large part because of the power of US labor unions (before Reagan 25% of the workforce was unionized; today the private workforce is about 7% unionized), and because companies were unwilling to risk having non-tax-deductible labor expenses on their books by hiring undocumented workers without valid Social Security numbers.
> 
> But Reagan put an end to that. His 1986 amnesty program, combined with his aggressive war on organized labor (begun in 1981), in effect told both employers and non-citizens that there would be few penalties and many rewards to increasing the US labor pool (and thus driving down wages) with undocumented immigrants. A million people a year continued to come across our southern border, but they stopped returning to Latin America every fall because instead of seasonal work they were able to find permanent jobs.
> 
> The magnet drawing them? Illegal Employers.
> 
> Yet in the American media, Illegal Employers are almost never mentioned.
> 
> Lou Dobbs, the most visible media champion of this issue, always starts his discussion of the issue with a basic syllogism - 1. Our border is porous. 2. People are coming across our porous border and diluting our labor markets, driving down US wages. 3. Therefore we must make the border less porous.
> 
> Lou's syllogism, however, ignores the real problem, the magnet drawing people to risk life and limb to illegally enter this country - Illegal Employers. Our borders have always been porous (and even with a "fence" will still allow through "tourists" by the millions), but we've never had a problem like this before.
> 
> Yet fifty years ago we didn't have an "illegal immigration" problem, because back then we didn't have a conservative "Illegal Employer" problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was a good post till you said illegal employers were never mentioned in the press, if they were not mentioned how do we know about it????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was a 2006 op ed. Back when we were anti illegals but you Neocons were not. Half of you got it but the corporatist ran your party and they swore they were just doing jobs Americans wouldn’t do.
> 
> Then came trump now the racist side of the Republican Party now runs the White House.
> 
> Not the senate of house. They are still corporatist. So are democrats. This is one issue I side with trump and the racist republicans.
> 
> I don’t care what color the immigrants are they are deluding our job market with low wage workers and that keeps wages down. Slow down immigration and fuck growth. Worry about middle class wages then growth next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Most we're always anti ilegals, I know I was even in the 80s, it was supposed to be a one time deal with Regean
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Chicken plants raided by ICE 'willfully and unlawfully' hired unauthorized workers: court documents
> 
> Handcuffed workers await transportation to a processing center following a raid by U.S. immigration officials at Koch Foods Inc., plant in Morton, Miss. U.S. immigration officials raided several Mississippi food processing plants on Wednesday and signaled that the early-morning strikes were part of a large-scale operation targeting owners as well as employees.
> 
> Morton, MISS is not a sanctuary city
> 
> *Koch Foods* is a *food* processor and distributor in Park Ridge, Illinois that is listed by Forbes Magazine as number 163 on the list of the largest private companies in the US. As of October 2014, the *company* had a revenue of $3 billion, and approximately 14,000 employees. The *company* is *owned* by Joseph Grendys.
> 
> Why isn't Joseph Grendys in jail?
Click to expand...




sealybobo said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is that we had an open border with Mexico for several centuries, and "illegal immigration" was never a serious problem. Before Reagan's presidency, an estimated million or so people a year came into the US from Mexico - and the same number, more or less, left the US for Mexico at the end of the agricultural harvest season. Very few stayed, because there weren't jobs for them.
> 
> Non-citizens didn't have access to the non-agricultural US job market, in large part because of the power of US labor unions (before Reagan 25% of the workforce was unionized; today the private workforce is about 7% unionized), and because companies were unwilling to risk having non-tax-deductible labor expenses on their books by hiring undocumented workers without valid Social Security numbers.
> 
> But Reagan put an end to that. His 1986 amnesty program, combined with his aggressive war on organized labor (begun in 1981), in effect told both employers and non-citizens that there would be few penalties and many rewards to increasing the US labor pool (and thus driving down wages) with undocumented immigrants. A million people a year continued to come across our southern border, but they stopped returning to Latin America every fall because instead of seasonal work they were able to find permanent jobs.
> 
> The magnet drawing them? Illegal Employers.
> 
> Yet in the American media, Illegal Employers are almost never mentioned.
> 
> Lou Dobbs, the most visible media champion of this issue, always starts his discussion of the issue with a basic syllogism - 1. Our border is porous. 2. People are coming across our porous border and diluting our labor markets, driving down US wages. 3. Therefore we must make the border less porous.
> 
> Lou's syllogism, however, ignores the real problem, the magnet drawing people to risk life and limb to illegally enter this country - Illegal Employers. Our borders have always been porous (and even with a "fence" will still allow through "tourists" by the millions), but we've never had a problem like this before.
> 
> Yet fifty years ago we didn't have an "illegal immigration" problem, because back then we didn't have a conservative "Illegal Employer" problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was a good post till you said illegal employers were never mentioned in the press, if they were not mentioned how do we know about it????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was a 2006 op ed. Back when we were anti illegals but you Neocons were not. Half of you got it but the corporatist ran your party and they swore they were just doing jobs Americans wouldn’t do.
> 
> Then came trump now the racist side of the Republican Party now runs the White House.
> 
> Not the senate of house. They are still corporatist. So are democrats. This is one issue I side with trump and the racist republicans.
> 
> I don’t care what color the immigrants are they are deluding our job market with low wage workers and that keeps wages down. Slow down immigration and fuck growth. Worry about middle class wages then growth next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Most we're always anti ilegals, I know I was even in the 80s, it was supposed to be a one time deal with Regean
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Chicken plants raided by ICE 'willfully and unlawfully' hired unauthorized workers: court documents
> 
> Handcuffed workers await transportation to a processing center following a raid by U.S. immigration officials at Koch Foods Inc., plant in Morton, Miss. U.S. immigration officials raided several Mississippi food processing plants on Wednesday and signaled that the early-morning strikes were part of a large-scale operation targeting owners as well as employees.
> 
> Morton, MISS is not a sanctuary city
> 
> *Koch Foods* is a *food* processor and distributor in Park Ridge, Illinois that is listed by Forbes Magazine as number 163 on the list of the largest private companies in the US. As of October 2014, the *company* had a revenue of $3 billion, and approximately 14,000 employees. The *company* is *owned* by Joseph Grendys.
> 
> Why isn't Joseph Grendys in jail?
Click to expand...

Give them a chance, Sealy.  He needs a trial first.


----------



## danielpalos

Taz said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> We need better solutions at lower cost.  We should not be losing money on border policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you only have like 10 stock phrases that you paste over and over again? You should seriously think about shutting the fuck up.
Click to expand...

LOL.  I only need that many rebuttals for the right wing.  that is how ignorant of the law and economics they really are.  why not come up with a valid rebuttal instead of merely having nothing but fallacy while alleging to be more than merely, incredible.


----------



## Taz

danielpalos said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> We need better solutions at lower cost.  We should not be losing money on border policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you only have like 10 stock phrases that you paste over and over again? You should seriously think about shutting the fuck up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL.  I only need that many rebuttals for the right wing.  that is how ignorant of the law and economics they really are.  why not come up with a valid rebuttal instead of merely having nothing but fallacy while alleging to be more than merely, incredible.
Click to expand...

Come up with something original first. And a real, coherent and relevant thought. Not your usual vague inane generalities.


----------



## sealybobo

bear513 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is that we had an open border with Mexico for several centuries, and "illegal immigration" was never a serious problem. Before Reagan's presidency, an estimated million or so people a year came into the US from Mexico - and the same number, more or less, left the US for Mexico at the end of the agricultural harvest season. Very few stayed, because there weren't jobs for them.
> 
> Non-citizens didn't have access to the non-agricultural US job market, in large part because of the power of US labor unions (before Reagan 25% of the workforce was unionized; today the private workforce is about 7% unionized), and because companies were unwilling to risk having non-tax-deductible labor expenses on their books by hiring undocumented workers without valid Social Security numbers.
> 
> But Reagan put an end to that. His 1986 amnesty program, combined with his aggressive war on organized labor (begun in 1981), in effect told both employers and non-citizens that there would be few penalties and many rewards to increasing the US labor pool (and thus driving down wages) with undocumented immigrants. A million people a year continued to come across our southern border, but they stopped returning to Latin America every fall because instead of seasonal work they were able to find permanent jobs.
> 
> The magnet drawing them? Illegal Employers.
> 
> Yet in the American media, Illegal Employers are almost never mentioned.
> 
> Lou Dobbs, the most visible media champion of this issue, always starts his discussion of the issue with a basic syllogism - 1. Our border is porous. 2. People are coming across our porous border and diluting our labor markets, driving down US wages. 3. Therefore we must make the border less porous.
> 
> Lou's syllogism, however, ignores the real problem, the magnet drawing people to risk life and limb to illegally enter this country - Illegal Employers. Our borders have always been porous (and even with a "fence" will still allow through "tourists" by the millions), but we've never had a problem like this before.
> 
> Yet fifty years ago we didn't have an "illegal immigration" problem, because back then we didn't have a conservative "Illegal Employer" problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was a good post till you said illegal employers were never mentioned in the press, if they were not mentioned how do we know about it????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was a 2006 op ed. Back when we were anti illegals but you Neocons were not. Half of you got it but the corporatist ran your party and they swore they were just doing jobs Americans wouldn’t do.
> 
> Then came trump now the racist side of the Republican Party now runs the White House.
> 
> Not the senate of house. They are still corporatist. So are democrats. This is one issue I side with trump and the racist republicans.
> 
> I don’t care what color the immigrants are they are deluding our job market with low wage workers and that keeps wages down. Slow down immigration and fuck growth. Worry about middle class wages then growth next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Most we're always anti ilegals, I know I was even in the 80s, it was supposed to be a one time deal with Regean
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Chicken plants raided by ICE 'willfully and unlawfully' hired unauthorized workers: court documents
> 
> Handcuffed workers await transportation to a processing center following a raid by U.S. immigration officials at Koch Foods Inc., plant in Morton, Miss. U.S. immigration officials raided several Mississippi food processing plants on Wednesday and signaled that the early-morning strikes were part of a large-scale operation targeting owners as well as employees.
> 
> Morton, MISS is not a sanctuary city
> 
> *Koch Foods* is a *food* processor and distributor in Park Ridge, Illinois that is listed by Forbes Magazine as number 163 on the list of the largest private companies in the US. As of October 2014, the *company* had a revenue of $3 billion, and approximately 14,000 employees. The *company* is *owned* by Joseph Grendys.
> 
> Why isn't Joseph Grendys in jail?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would he be? He doesn't micro manage the place
Click to expand...


Making excuses for your corporate masters.  Nice.  This problem will never be solved with idiots like you providing them with cover.  Your outrage is misdirected.

Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"

Wake up America.  I don't expect you to but you really need to wake up.  One of the ways they got richer and the middle class got poorer is that these illegal employers paid the government to stop enforcing the laws.  Stop raiding their companies when we know they are hiring illegals.  Trust me dummy, if ICE knew they had illegals working there, so did Mr. Koch.  

I can't find the link but a few weeks ago I saw that the rich save billions of dollars hiring illegals.  If that's true, then they are robbing the American middle class of billions of dollars.  Just one of many ways/reasons the rich have gotten richer and the middle class poorer ever since Ronald Reagan.

As the Washington Post noted in an article by Hsu and Lydersen on June 19, 2006:

"Between 1999 and 2003, work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which subsequently was merged into the Homeland Security Department. The number of employers prosecuted for unlawfully employing immigrants dropped from 182 in 1999 to four in 2003, and fines collected declined from $3.6 million to $212,000, according to federal statistics.

"In 1999, the United States initiated fines against 417 companies. In 2004, it issued fine notices to three."


----------



## sealybobo

Taz said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> We need better solutions at lower cost.  We should not be losing money on border policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you only have like 10 stock phrases that you paste over and over again? You should seriously think about shutting the fuck up.
Click to expand...


We wouldn't even need a wall if illegal employers would just stop hiring illegals.  They don't have to though because since Reagan the government has told the corporations they won't do very much about it if they choose to hire illegals.

Oh sure Trump might raid a couple companies but are they going to punish the illegal employers?  If not, then they are not scared of the risks.  There are no risks then.

As the Washington Post noted in an article by Hsu and Lydersen on June 19, 2006:

"Between 1999 and 2003, work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which subsequently was merged into the Homeland Security Department. The number of employers prosecuted for unlawfully employing immigrants dropped from 182 in 1999 to four in 2003, and fines collected declined from $3.6 million to $212,000, according to federal statistics.

"In 1999, the United States initiated fines against 417 companies. In 2004, it issued fine notices to three."


That means Bill Clinton was doing his job and Bush stopped doing the job once he got into office.

*As workplace raids multiply, Trump administration charges few companies*


*ICE has announced cases against five companies for immigration violations since 2017*

*The Trump administration has eagerly pursued arrests of undocumented immigrants over the last two years, culminating in a record-setting raid of Mississippi poultry plants this week. But the administration appears to have been far less aggressive in going after corporations involved in those cases.

Prosecuting corporations, as opposed to individual workers or managers, for immigration-related offenses was also relatively rare during the Obama administration, but it has slowed further under the Trump administration, according to a database maintained by Duke University and the University of Virginia and data reviewed by The Washington Post.

The Corporate Prosecution Registry tracks cases in which companies, rather than individuals, are charged with violating federal law, and it includes cases resolved with plea agreements as well as deferred and non-prosecution agreements.

There were at least 88 such cases against companies for immigration violations between 2009 and 2016 during the Obama administration and at least five companies prosecuted for immigration violations since Trump took office in 2017, according to the data on corporate prosecutions and a review of news releases from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

The Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse at Syracuse University examined federal data for a one-year period — April 2018 through March 2019 — and found that no companies were prosecuted for knowingly hiring undocumented workers. “Actual prosecution of employers for employing immigrants without proper documentation actually has been relatively rare,” the report states.

So lets do the math

Clinton 417
Bush 3
Obama 88 
Trump 5


*


----------



## danielpalos

Taz said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> We need better solutions at lower cost.  We should not be losing money on border policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you only have like 10 stock phrases that you paste over and over again? You should seriously think about shutting the fuck up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL.  I only need that many rebuttals for the right wing.  that is how ignorant of the law and economics they really are.  why not come up with a valid rebuttal instead of merely having nothing but fallacy while alleging to be more than merely, incredible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Come up with something original first. And a real, coherent and relevant thought. Not your usual vague inane generalities.
Click to expand...

lol.  i am not the one appealing to ignorance of express Constitutional law and claiming i am right simply because i am on the right wing.


----------



## Taz

danielpalos said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> We need better solutions at lower cost.  We should not be losing money on border policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you only have like 10 stock phrases that you paste over and over again? You should seriously think about shutting the fuck up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL.  I only need that many rebuttals for the right wing.  that is how ignorant of the law and economics they really are.  why not come up with a valid rebuttal instead of merely having nothing but fallacy while alleging to be more than merely, incredible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Come up with something original first. And a real, coherent and relevant thought. Not your usual vague inane generalities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol.  i am not the one appealing to ignorance of express Constitutional law and claiming i am right simply because i am on the right wing.
Click to expand...

See ^^^^^^^^^^^ ? That's exactly what I mean. Your comment has a lot of English words, but they don't fit together in a coherent way.


----------



## debbiedowner

sealybobo said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> We need better solutions at lower cost.  We should not be losing money on border policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you only have like 10 stock phrases that you paste over and over again? You should seriously think about shutting the fuck up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We wouldn't even need a wall if illegal employers would just stop hiring illegals.  They don't have to though because since Reagan the government has told the corporations they won't do very much about it if they choose to hire illegals.
> 
> Oh sure Trump might raid a couple companies but are they going to punish the illegal employers?  If not, then they are not scared of the risks.  There are no risks then.
> 
> As the Washington Post noted in an article by Hsu and Lydersen on June 19, 2006:
> 
> "Between 1999 and 2003, work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which subsequently was merged into the Homeland Security Department. The number of employers prosecuted for unlawfully employing immigrants dropped from 182 in 1999 to four in 2003, and fines collected declined from $3.6 million to $212,000, according to federal statistics.
> 
> "In 1999, the United States initiated fines against 417 companies. In 2004, it issued fine notices to three."
> 
> 
> That means Bill Clinton was doing his job and Bush stopped doing the job once he got into office.
> 
> *As workplace raids multiply, Trump administration charges few companies*
> 
> 
> *ICE has announced cases against five companies for immigration violations since 2017*
> 
> *The Trump administration has eagerly pursued arrests of undocumented immigrants over the last two years, culminating in a record-setting raid of Mississippi poultry plants this week. But the administration appears to have been far less aggressive in going after corporations involved in those cases.*
> 
> *Prosecuting corporations, as opposed to individual workers or managers, for immigration-related offenses was also relatively rare during the Obama administration, but it has slowed further under the Trump administration, according to a database maintained by Duke University and the University of Virginia and data reviewed by The Washington Post.*
> 
> *The Corporate Prosecution Registry tracks cases in which companies, rather than individuals, are charged with violating federal law, and it includes cases resolved with plea agreements as well as deferred and non-prosecution agreements.*
> 
> *There were at least 88 such cases against companies for immigration violations between 2009 and 2016 during the Obama administration and at least five companies prosecuted for immigration violations since Trump took office in 2017, according to the data on corporate prosecutions and a review of news releases from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.*
> 
> *The Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse at Syracuse University examined federal data for a one-year period — April 2018 through March 2019 — and found that no companies were prosecuted for knowingly hiring undocumented workers. “Actual prosecution of employers for employing immigrants without proper documentation actually has been relatively rare,” the report states.*
> 
> *So lets do the math*
> 
> *Clinton 417*
> *Bush 3*
> *Obama 88 *
> *Trump 5*
Click to expand...


Ann Coulter Suggests Donald Trump Should Be Charged for Employing Undocumented Migrant Workers


----------



## danielpalos

Taz said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> We need better solutions at lower cost.  We should not be losing money on border policy.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you only have like 10 stock phrases that you paste over and over again? You should seriously think about shutting the fuck up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL.  I only need that many rebuttals for the right wing.  that is how ignorant of the law and economics they really are.  why not come up with a valid rebuttal instead of merely having nothing but fallacy while alleging to be more than merely, incredible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Come up with something original first. And a real, coherent and relevant thought. Not your usual vague inane generalities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol.  i am not the one appealing to ignorance of express Constitutional law and claiming i am right simply because i am on the right wing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See ^^^^^^^^^^^ ? That's exactly what I mean. Your comment has a lot of English words, but they don't fit together in a coherent way.
Click to expand...

don't blame Me for Your inferiority in reading comprehension.  dictionaries are even online now.


----------



## pknopp

Jets said:


> Neither Party is without blame here. Between those that want cheap labor and those that are pandering for votes, immigration serves as the perfect wedge issue. Why solve a problem when it makes for great campaign fodder...



 Both parties are to blame BUT Trump is currently in charge right now.


----------



## sealybobo

OldLady said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is that we had an open border with Mexico for several centuries, and "illegal immigration" was never a serious problem. Before Reagan's presidency, an estimated million or so people a year came into the US from Mexico - and the same number, more or less, left the US for Mexico at the end of the agricultural harvest season. Very few stayed, because there weren't jobs for them.
> 
> Non-citizens didn't have access to the non-agricultural US job market, in large part because of the power of US labor unions (before Reagan 25% of the workforce was unionized; today the private workforce is about 7% unionized), and because companies were unwilling to risk having non-tax-deductible labor expenses on their books by hiring undocumented workers without valid Social Security numbers.
> 
> But Reagan put an end to that. His 1986 amnesty program, combined with his aggressive war on organized labor (begun in 1981), in effect told both employers and non-citizens that there would be few penalties and many rewards to increasing the US labor pool (and thus driving down wages) with undocumented immigrants. A million people a year continued to come across our southern border, but they stopped returning to Latin America every fall because instead of seasonal work they were able to find permanent jobs.
> 
> The magnet drawing them? Illegal Employers.
> 
> Yet in the American media, Illegal Employers are almost never mentioned.
> 
> Lou Dobbs, the most visible media champion of this issue, always starts his discussion of the issue with a basic syllogism - 1. Our border is porous. 2. People are coming across our porous border and diluting our labor markets, driving down US wages. 3. Therefore we must make the border less porous.
> 
> Lou's syllogism, however, ignores the real problem, the magnet drawing people to risk life and limb to illegally enter this country - Illegal Employers. Our borders have always been porous (and even with a "fence" will still allow through "tourists" by the millions), but we've never had a problem like this before.
> 
> Yet fifty years ago we didn't have an "illegal immigration" problem, because back then we didn't have a conservative "Illegal Employer" problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was a good post till you said illegal employers were never mentioned in the press, if they were not mentioned how do we know about it????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was a 2006 op ed. Back when we were anti illegals but you Neocons were not. Half of you got it but the corporatist ran your party and they swore they were just doing jobs Americans wouldn’t do.
> 
> Then came trump now the racist side of the Republican Party now runs the White House.
> 
> Not the senate of house. They are still corporatist. So are democrats. This is one issue I side with trump and the racist republicans.
> 
> I don’t care what color the immigrants are they are deluding our job market with low wage workers and that keeps wages down. Slow down immigration and fuck growth. Worry about middle class wages then growth next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Most we're always anti ilegals, I know I was even in the 80s, it was supposed to be a one time deal with Regean
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Chicken plants raided by ICE 'willfully and unlawfully' hired unauthorized workers: court documents
> 
> Handcuffed workers await transportation to a processing center following a raid by U.S. immigration officials at Koch Foods Inc., plant in Morton, Miss. U.S. immigration officials raided several Mississippi food processing plants on Wednesday and signaled that the early-morning strikes were part of a large-scale operation targeting owners as well as employees.
> 
> Morton, MISS is not a sanctuary city
> 
> *Koch Foods* is a *food* processor and distributor in Park Ridge, Illinois that is listed by Forbes Magazine as number 163 on the list of the largest private companies in the US. As of October 2014, the *company* had a revenue of $3 billion, and approximately 14,000 employees. The *company* is *owned* by Joseph Grendys.
> 
> Why isn't Joseph Grendys in jail?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is that we had an open border with Mexico for several centuries, and "illegal immigration" was never a serious problem. Before Reagan's presidency, an estimated million or so people a year came into the US from Mexico - and the same number, more or less, left the US for Mexico at the end of the agricultural harvest season. Very few stayed, because there weren't jobs for them.
> 
> Non-citizens didn't have access to the non-agricultural US job market, in large part because of the power of US labor unions (before Reagan 25% of the workforce was unionized; today the private workforce is about 7% unionized), and because companies were unwilling to risk having non-tax-deductible labor expenses on their books by hiring undocumented workers without valid Social Security numbers.
> 
> But Reagan put an end to that. His 1986 amnesty program, combined with his aggressive war on organized labor (begun in 1981), in effect told both employers and non-citizens that there would be few penalties and many rewards to increasing the US labor pool (and thus driving down wages) with undocumented immigrants. A million people a year continued to come across our southern border, but they stopped returning to Latin America every fall because instead of seasonal work they were able to find permanent jobs.
> 
> The magnet drawing them? Illegal Employers.
> 
> Yet in the American media, Illegal Employers are almost never mentioned.
> 
> Lou Dobbs, the most visible media champion of this issue, always starts his discussion of the issue with a basic syllogism - 1. Our border is porous. 2. People are coming across our porous border and diluting our labor markets, driving down US wages. 3. Therefore we must make the border less porous.
> 
> Lou's syllogism, however, ignores the real problem, the magnet drawing people to risk life and limb to illegally enter this country - Illegal Employers. Our borders have always been porous (and even with a "fence" will still allow through "tourists" by the millions), but we've never had a problem like this before.
> 
> Yet fifty years ago we didn't have an "illegal immigration" problem, because back then we didn't have a conservative "Illegal Employer" problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was a good post till you said illegal employers were never mentioned in the press, if they were not mentioned how do we know about it????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was a 2006 op ed. Back when we were anti illegals but you Neocons were not. Half of you got it but the corporatist ran your party and they swore they were just doing jobs Americans wouldn’t do.
> 
> Then came trump now the racist side of the Republican Party now runs the White House.
> 
> Not the senate of house. They are still corporatist. So are democrats. This is one issue I side with trump and the racist republicans.
> 
> I don’t care what color the immigrants are they are deluding our job market with low wage workers and that keeps wages down. Slow down immigration and fuck growth. Worry about middle class wages then growth next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Most we're always anti ilegals, I know I was even in the 80s, it was supposed to be a one time deal with Regean
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Chicken plants raided by ICE 'willfully and unlawfully' hired unauthorized workers: court documents
> 
> Handcuffed workers await transportation to a processing center following a raid by U.S. immigration officials at Koch Foods Inc., plant in Morton, Miss. U.S. immigration officials raided several Mississippi food processing plants on Wednesday and signaled that the early-morning strikes were part of a large-scale operation targeting owners as well as employees.
> 
> Morton, MISS is not a sanctuary city
> 
> *Koch Foods* is a *food* processor and distributor in Park Ridge, Illinois that is listed by Forbes Magazine as number 163 on the list of the largest private companies in the US. As of October 2014, the *company* had a revenue of $3 billion, and approximately 14,000 employees. The *company* is *owned* by Joseph Grendys.
> 
> Why isn't Joseph Grendys in jail?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give them a chance, Sealy.  He needs a trial first.
Click to expand...


You think this rich white man is going to see the inside of a court room?  

*Koch Foods CEO Applauds Immigrant Arrests As Consequence Of Illegally Accepting Job At Koch Foods*

PARK RIDGE, IL—Proclaiming his appreciation for ICE in making sure that those who disobeyed U.S. law were made to pay for their crimes, Koch Foods CEO Joseph Grendys reportedly applauded the arrests of hundreds of immigrant workers Friday as a just consequence for illegally accepting a job at Koch Foods. “These lawbreakers knew the risks when they applied for and received a position at one of our manufacturing facilities, and it’s high time that they were brought to justice,” said Grendys, adding that he favored a zero-tolerance policy against anyone who had such a disregard for the United States legal system as to unlawfully enter the company’s Morton, MS processing plant every day and go to work. “We thank law enforcement for giving these criminals the punishment they deserve. And to these people undermining the fabric of our country, I ask you, how dare you accept a position here? It should’ve been a red flag when our hiring managers didn’t want to see any immigration papers and just let them walk around carrying their welcome packets and receiving compensation. These people must be held accountable for my company’s hiring practices because they’re taking American jobs that I offered them.” Grendys added that he knew the immigrant workers were trouble ever since a lawsuit found that they had been illegally sexually harassed and racially discriminated against.

https://www.theonion.com/koch-foods-ceo-applauds-immigrant-arrests-as-consequenc-1837107122


----------



## sealybobo

pknopp said:


> Jets said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither Party is without blame here. Between those that want cheap labor and those that are pandering for votes, immigration serves as the perfect wedge issue. Why solve a problem when it makes for great campaign fodder...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both parties are to blame BUT Trump is currently in charge right now.
Click to expand...


And I can show you that Clinton raided 400 companies in 1999 and then Bush raided just 4 in 2001.  Why did Bush stop going after illegal employers?  And Trump is not raiding as many companies as Obama did.  Seems that both parties aren't to blame.  

Allegations of labor abuses dogged Mississippi plant years before immigration raids - Reuters

And I just hate it when a Republican says "both parties are to blame".  That's what they say when they can't defend the GOP.  That's the closest thing you'll ever get to an admission that they were wrong.


----------



## pknopp

sealybobo said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jets said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither Party is without blame here. Between those that want cheap labor and those that are pandering for votes, immigration serves as the perfect wedge issue. Why solve a problem when it makes for great campaign fodder...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both parties are to blame BUT Trump is currently in charge right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And I can show you that Clinton raided 400 companies in 1999 and then Bush raided just 4 in 2001.  Why did Bush stop going after illegal employers?  And Trump is not raiding as many companies as Obama did.  Seems that both parties aren't to blame.
> 
> Allegations of labor abuses dogged Mississippi plant years before immigration raids - Reuters
> 
> And I just hate it when a Republican says "both parties are to blame".  That's what they say when they can't defend the GOP.  That's the closest thing you'll ever get to an admission that they were wrong.
Click to expand...


 I'm not a Republican. I'm supporting Tulsi.


----------



## sealybobo

*Immigration raid to cost Koch Foods 'millions'*
*ICE agents raided a Mississippi processing plant owned by the Park Ridge company, leaving some workers in federal custody, thousands of half-butchered chickens, and likely costing the firm “millions” before business returns to normal.*

*U.S. Immigration & Customs Enforcement raided seven plants operated by several companies in Mississippi, arresting 680 workers. The roundup included a Morton, Miss., plant owned by Park Ridge-based Koch, one of metro Chicago’s largest private companies with $3.2 billion in revenue last year. CEO Joseph Grendys is estimated to be worth $2.5 billion.

Koch Foods did not return a message seeking comment. The company’s customer-facing website appeared to have crashed this morning.

The daytime raid means the plant was operating when immigration officials began arresting people, said Storrs, Conn.-based poultry consultant Paul Aho.

“What a nightmare for a plant manager,” he said. “That is a big mess because you get thousands of chickens half-processed. ICE can cause a big hassle just to clean it up.”

When the Northwest Side’s Cloverhill Bakery lost a third of its workers in an immigration crackdown two years ago, the bakery’s then-owners reported more than $19 million in losses over two months. Swiss conglomerate Aryzta sold the bakery to Hostess Brands.

It won’t necessarily be easy to replace the workers who were arrested, either, Aho said. Workers may hesitate to apply at a place so recently targeted by ICE, and unemployment is low, giving people other options.

DO they mean new illegals?  Why would an American care if the place was recently raided by ICE?  I think they're going to go right bakc to hiring illegals.

Maybe Koch can pay $5 more an hour to American workers and instead of being worth $2.5 billion he would only be worth 2 billion.  Would that be so bad?  

See, they are just greedy.


*


----------



## sealybobo

pknopp said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jets said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither Party is without blame here. Between those that want cheap labor and those that are pandering for votes, immigration serves as the perfect wedge issue. Why solve a problem when it makes for great campaign fodder...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both parties are to blame BUT Trump is currently in charge right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And I can show you that Clinton raided 400 companies in 1999 and then Bush raided just 4 in 2001.  Why did Bush stop going after illegal employers?  And Trump is not raiding as many companies as Obama did.  Seems that both parties aren't to blame.
> 
> Allegations of labor abuses dogged Mississippi plant years before immigration raids - Reuters
> 
> And I just hate it when a Republican says "both parties are to blame".  That's what they say when they can't defend the GOP.  That's the closest thing you'll ever get to an admission that they were wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not a Republican. I'm supporting Tulsi.
Click to expand...

Too often us liberals end up talking about these issues and we are repeating the right wings talking points.

No, both parties are not to blame.  Us liberals have been screaming for decades that it's an illegal employer problem.  

Let me give you an example.  If I was only making $30K a year here in America and Canadian companies were paying $200,000 a year, would I go illegally to Canada to work and send money home?  No question I would go.  But the minute they stopped hiring illegal Americans I would come back home.  Even though I would appeciate their free healthcare system.  It's the jobs that are drawing the illegals.  And if the corporations won't stop, they'll keep coming.


----------



## pknopp

sealybobo said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jets said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither Party is without blame here. Between those that want cheap labor and those that are pandering for votes, immigration serves as the perfect wedge issue. Why solve a problem when it makes for great campaign fodder...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both parties are to blame BUT Trump is currently in charge right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And I can show you that Clinton raided 400 companies in 1999 and then Bush raided just 4 in 2001.  Why did Bush stop going after illegal employers?  And Trump is not raiding as many companies as Obama did.  Seems that both parties aren't to blame.
> 
> Allegations of labor abuses dogged Mississippi plant years before immigration raids - Reuters
> 
> And I just hate it when a Republican says "both parties are to blame".  That's what they say when they can't defend the GOP.  That's the closest thing you'll ever get to an admission that they were wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not a Republican. I'm supporting Tulsi.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Too often us liberals end up talking about these issues and we are repeating the right wings talking points.
> 
> No, both parties are not to blame.  Us liberals have been screaming for decades that it's an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Let me give you an example.  If I was only making $30K a year here in America and Canadian companies were paying $200,000 a year, would I go illegally to Canada to work and send money home?  No question I would go.  But the minute they stopped hiring illegal Americans I would come back home.  Even though I would appeciate their free healthcare system.  It's the jobs that are drawing the illegals.  And if the corporations won't stop, they'll keep coming.
Click to expand...

 
Employers rarely ever getting arrested is a problem. It's not the only problem.

Obama Broke His Promise to Latinos


----------



## sealybobo

pknopp said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jets said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither Party is without blame here. Between those that want cheap labor and those that are pandering for votes, immigration serves as the perfect wedge issue. Why solve a problem when it makes for great campaign fodder...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both parties are to blame BUT Trump is currently in charge right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And I can show you that Clinton raided 400 companies in 1999 and then Bush raided just 4 in 2001.  Why did Bush stop going after illegal employers?  And Trump is not raiding as many companies as Obama did.  Seems that both parties aren't to blame.
> 
> Allegations of labor abuses dogged Mississippi plant years before immigration raids - Reuters
> 
> And I just hate it when a Republican says "both parties are to blame".  That's what they say when they can't defend the GOP.  That's the closest thing you'll ever get to an admission that they were wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not a Republican. I'm supporting Tulsi.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Too often us liberals end up talking about these issues and we are repeating the right wings talking points.
> 
> No, both parties are not to blame.  Us liberals have been screaming for decades that it's an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Let me give you an example.  If I was only making $30K a year here in America and Canadian companies were paying $200,000 a year, would I go illegally to Canada to work and send money home?  No question I would go.  But the minute they stopped hiring illegal Americans I would come back home.  Even though I would appeciate their free healthcare system.  It's the jobs that are drawing the illegals.  And if the corporations won't stop, they'll keep coming.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Employers rarely ever getting arrested is a problem. It's not the only problem.
> 
> Obama Broke His Promise to Latinos
Click to expand...


What you are showing me about Obama is not bad.  He deported illegals?  Good.  Guess what?  Most legal latino Americans don't give a fuck about illegals.  Whoever wrote that hit piece is either a lying con or a bleeding heart liberal.  

The article said this While busy running six health clinics for low-income and mostly undocumented immigrants on Chicago’s southwest side, I strongly urged every Latino and immigrant registered voter I came across to support Obama. 

So fuck that guy.  He's basically a sanctuary clinic harboring these criminals.  He caters to undocumented immigrants.  

Trust me, the registered voters don't give a fuck about illegal immigrants.  And, they don't even vote.  What percent of latino's in Chicago do you think actually bother to vote?  And how many legal documented hispanics do you think are in Chicago?  Are there more legals than illegals?  I wonder.  I've been to this part of Chicago.  Jesus there are a lot of hispanics in that area.

This guy is a little bitch who wouldn't shake Obama's hand?  Fine!  Guess what?  Now we have a president who says all you Mexican's are murderers and rapists.

What the fuck do you want us to do?  Do you want to make open borders?  Make every illegal legal?  Fuck that!  They are deluding the job market and driving wages down.  Especially the illegal ones.  

I don't see a problem with what Obama did.  What did you want him to do?


----------



## pknopp

sealybobo said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both parties are to blame BUT Trump is currently in charge right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I can show you that Clinton raided 400 companies in 1999 and then Bush raided just 4 in 2001.  Why did Bush stop going after illegal employers?  And Trump is not raiding as many companies as Obama did.  Seems that both parties aren't to blame.
> 
> Allegations of labor abuses dogged Mississippi plant years before immigration raids - Reuters
> 
> And I just hate it when a Republican says "both parties are to blame".  That's what they say when they can't defend the GOP.  That's the closest thing you'll ever get to an admission that they were wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not a Republican. I'm supporting Tulsi.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Too often us liberals end up talking about these issues and we are repeating the right wings talking points.
> 
> No, both parties are not to blame.  Us liberals have been screaming for decades that it's an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Let me give you an example.  If I was only making $30K a year here in America and Canadian companies were paying $200,000 a year, would I go illegally to Canada to work and send money home?  No question I would go.  But the minute they stopped hiring illegal Americans I would come back home.  Even though I would appeciate their free healthcare system.  It's the jobs that are drawing the illegals.  And if the corporations won't stop, they'll keep coming.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Employers rarely ever getting arrested is a problem. It's not the only problem.
> 
> Obama Broke His Promise to Latinos
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you are showing me about Obama is not bad.  He deported illegals?  Good.  Guess what?  Most legal latino Americans don't give a fuck about illegals.  Whoever wrote that hit piece is either a lying con or a bleeding heart liberal.
> 
> The article said this While busy running six health clinics for low-income and mostly undocumented immigrants on Chicago’s southwest side, I strongly urged every Latino and immigrant registered voter I came across to support Obama.
> 
> So fuck that guy.  He's basically a sanctuary clinic harboring these criminals.  He caters to undocumented immigrants.
> 
> Trust me, the registered voters don't give a fuck about illegal immigrants.  And, they don't even vote.  What percent of latino's in Chicago do you think actually bother to vote?  And how many legal documented hispanics do you think are in Chicago?  Are there more legals than illegals?  I wonder.  I've been to this part of Chicago.  Jesus there are a lot of hispanics in that area.
> 
> This guy is a little bitch who wouldn't shake Obama's hand?  Fine!  Guess what?  Now we have a president who says all you Mexican's are murderers and rapists.
> 
> What the fuck do you want us to do?  Do you want to make open borders?  Make every illegal legal?  Fuck that!  They are deluding the job market and driving wages down.  Especially the illegal ones.
> 
> I don't see a problem with what Obama did.  What did you want him to do?
Click to expand...

 
 Wow, you sound just like Trump.


----------



## sealybobo

pknopp said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I can show you that Clinton raided 400 companies in 1999 and then Bush raided just 4 in 2001.  Why did Bush stop going after illegal employers?  And Trump is not raiding as many companies as Obama did.  Seems that both parties aren't to blame.
> 
> Allegations of labor abuses dogged Mississippi plant years before immigration raids - Reuters
> 
> And I just hate it when a Republican says "both parties are to blame".  That's what they say when they can't defend the GOP.  That's the closest thing you'll ever get to an admission that they were wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a Republican. I'm supporting Tulsi.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Too often us liberals end up talking about these issues and we are repeating the right wings talking points.
> 
> No, both parties are not to blame.  Us liberals have been screaming for decades that it's an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Let me give you an example.  If I was only making $30K a year here in America and Canadian companies were paying $200,000 a year, would I go illegally to Canada to work and send money home?  No question I would go.  But the minute they stopped hiring illegal Americans I would come back home.  Even though I would appeciate their free healthcare system.  It's the jobs that are drawing the illegals.  And if the corporations won't stop, they'll keep coming.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Employers rarely ever getting arrested is a problem. It's not the only problem.
> 
> Obama Broke His Promise to Latinos
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you are showing me about Obama is not bad.  He deported illegals?  Good.  Guess what?  Most legal latino Americans don't give a fuck about illegals.  Whoever wrote that hit piece is either a lying con or a bleeding heart liberal.
> 
> The article said this While busy running six health clinics for low-income and mostly undocumented immigrants on Chicago’s southwest side, I strongly urged every Latino and immigrant registered voter I came across to support Obama.
> 
> So fuck that guy.  He's basically a sanctuary clinic harboring these criminals.  He caters to undocumented immigrants.
> 
> Trust me, the registered voters don't give a fuck about illegal immigrants.  And, they don't even vote.  What percent of latino's in Chicago do you think actually bother to vote?  And how many legal documented hispanics do you think are in Chicago?  Are there more legals than illegals?  I wonder.  I've been to this part of Chicago.  Jesus there are a lot of hispanics in that area.
> 
> This guy is a little bitch who wouldn't shake Obama's hand?  Fine!  Guess what?  Now we have a president who says all you Mexican's are murderers and rapists.
> 
> What the fuck do you want us to do?  Do you want to make open borders?  Make every illegal legal?  Fuck that!  They are deluding the job market and driving wages down.  Especially the illegal ones.
> 
> I don't see a problem with what Obama did.  What did you want him to do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, you sound just like Trump.
Click to expand...


Just because I don't like Trump does not mean I'm going to take the exact opposite position on every issue just because I refuse to agree with anything he says.  Fact is right now Trump is the one who's right about immigrants legal or not.  Did you hear my story the other day where my girlfriends sister just moved here from Belarus with 2 kids and her husband disappeared?  So she's going to get free obamacare, free foodstamps, free elementary.  The parents aren't paying into the system and their kids are going to be a strain on our resources.  So why the fuck did we let them in?  One thing is they are white.  I'm sure Republicans don't mind poor white immigrants as much as they do dark immigrants.  But the fact is, they should have never let my girlfriends sister and husband in.  And if she applies to aid I hope they go after her husband for child support.  He's going to be a truck driver as soon as he can speak English.  Again, they should have never been accepted into the USA.  

One thing he's right about is illegals are destroying our country.  They take too much out when they don't pay in enough.  They get free healthcare, their kids go to our public schools, they get foodstamps maybe, etc.  They take jobs for lower pay than an American will do thus hurting the middle class.  

Each year the rich save billions hiring illegals.  Do you know what that means?  That means each year illegals cost the American middle class billions.  No denying it.


----------



## Correll

sealybobo said:


> *Immigration raid to cost Koch Foods 'millions'*
> *ICE agents raided a Mississippi processing plant owned by the Park Ridge company, leaving some workers in federal custody, thousands of half-butchered chickens, and likely costing the firm “millions” before business returns to normal.*
> 
> *U.S. Immigration & Customs Enforcement raided seven plants operated by several companies in Mississippi, arresting 680 workers. The roundup included a Morton, Miss., plant owned by Park Ridge-based Koch, one of metro Chicago’s largest private companies with $3.2 billion in revenue last year. CEO Joseph Grendys is estimated to be worth $2.5 billion.*
> 
> *Koch Foods did not return a message seeking comment. The company’s customer-facing website appeared to have crashed this morning.*
> 
> *The daytime raid means the plant was operating when immigration officials began arresting people, said Storrs, Conn.-based poultry consultant Paul Aho.*
> 
> *“What a nightmare for a plant manager,” he said. “That is a big mess because you get thousands of chickens half-processed. ICE can cause a big hassle just to clean it up.”*
> 
> *When the Northwest Side’s Cloverhill Bakery lost a third of its workers in an immigration crackdown two years ago, the bakery’s then-owners reported more than $19 million in losses over two months. Swiss conglomerate Aryzta sold the bakery to Hostess Brands.*
> 
> *It won’t necessarily be easy to replace the workers who were arrested, either, Aho said. Workers may hesitate to apply at a place so recently targeted by ICE, and unemployment is low, giving people other options.*
> 
> *DO they mean new illegals?  Why would an American care if the place was recently raided by ICE?  I think they're going to go right bakc to hiring illegals.*
> 
> *Maybe Koch can pay $5 more an hour to American workers and instead of being worth $2.5 billion he would only be worth 2 billion.  Would that be so bad?  *
> 
> *See, they are just greedy.*





 I agree that the company should be more formally targeted for their role in this. 



My heart bleeds for the trouble they face as a result of their massive abuse of the law.


----------



## pknopp

sealybobo said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a Republican. I'm supporting Tulsi.
> 
> 
> 
> Too often us liberals end up talking about these issues and we are repeating the right wings talking points.
> 
> No, both parties are not to blame.  Us liberals have been screaming for decades that it's an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Let me give you an example.  If I was only making $30K a year here in America and Canadian companies were paying $200,000 a year, would I go illegally to Canada to work and send money home?  No question I would go.  But the minute they stopped hiring illegal Americans I would come back home.  Even though I would appeciate their free healthcare system.  It's the jobs that are drawing the illegals.  And if the corporations won't stop, they'll keep coming.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Employers rarely ever getting arrested is a problem. It's not the only problem.
> 
> Obama Broke His Promise to Latinos
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you are showing me about Obama is not bad.  He deported illegals?  Good.  Guess what?  Most legal latino Americans don't give a fuck about illegals.  Whoever wrote that hit piece is either a lying con or a bleeding heart liberal.
> 
> The article said this While busy running six health clinics for low-income and mostly undocumented immigrants on Chicago’s southwest side, I strongly urged every Latino and immigrant registered voter I came across to support Obama.
> 
> So fuck that guy.  He's basically a sanctuary clinic harboring these criminals.  He caters to undocumented immigrants.
> 
> Trust me, the registered voters don't give a fuck about illegal immigrants.  And, they don't even vote.  What percent of latino's in Chicago do you think actually bother to vote?  And how many legal documented hispanics do you think are in Chicago?  Are there more legals than illegals?  I wonder.  I've been to this part of Chicago.  Jesus there are a lot of hispanics in that area.
> 
> This guy is a little bitch who wouldn't shake Obama's hand?  Fine!  Guess what?  Now we have a president who says all you Mexican's are murderers and rapists.
> 
> What the fuck do you want us to do?  Do you want to make open borders?  Make every illegal legal?  Fuck that!  They are deluding the job market and driving wages down.  Especially the illegal ones.
> 
> I don't see a problem with what Obama did.  What did you want him to do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, you sound just like Trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just because I don't like Trump does not mean I'm going to take the exact opposite position on every issue just because I refuse to agree with anything he says.
Click to expand...

 
  That does not make sense.



> Fact is right now Trump is the one who's right about immigrants legal or not.  Did you hear my story the other day where my girlfriends sister just moved here from Belarus with 2 kids and her husband disappeared?  So she's going to get free obamacare, free foodstamps, free elementary.  The parents aren't paying into the system and their kids are going to be a strain on our resources.  So why the fuck did we let them in?  One thing is they are white.  I'm sure Republicans don't mind poor white immigrants as much as they do dark immigrants.  But the fact is, they should have never let my girlfriends sister and husband in.  And if she applies to aid I hope they go after her husband for child support.  He's going to be a truck driver as soon as he can speak English.  Again, they should have never been accepted into the USA.


 
 I saw it and ignored it as anecdotal examples prove nothing. There is no way to verify anything and one off examples of something proves very little.



> One thing he's right about is illegals are destroying our country.  They take too much out when they don't pay in enough.  They get free healthcare, their kids go to our public schools, they get foodstamps maybe, etc.  They take jobs for lower pay than an American will do thus hurting the middle class.
> 
> Each year the rich save billions hiring illegals.  Do you know what that means?  That means each year illegals cost the American middle class billions.  No denying it.


 
 Trump does say that but he does not do the things that would actually address the issue. Arrest those employing them. I am 100% for that.


----------



## Correll

FYI, just contacted the White House, as a supporter, calling for punishment of employers of illegals.


----------



## pknopp

Correll said:


> FYI, just contacted the White House, as a supporter, calling for punishment of employers of illegals.



 Went to the same place the call telling the White House that they can lower their credit card rates.


----------



## Correll

pknopp said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI, just contacted the White House, as a supporter, calling for punishment of employers of illegals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Went to the same place the call telling the White House that they can lower their credit card rates.
Click to expand...



Doubt it.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"




Having looked this thread over carefully, it is painfully obvious that no matter how much is said, the right seems to be stuck on stupid on this issue.  Is there any way that people can be objective here?

*NOBODY *can show me any sentence in the United States Constitution that gives Congress the *authority *to limit the liberty of foreigners.  So, when I have work to do and advertise for people to come out, I'm going to hire the best qualified person at the price I can afford to pay (usually $20 to $40 an hour for basic handyman work.)  

If you want the job, you have to get your ass off the Internet, forego social media, hang up your cell phone for a few hours and look for a job, then work it.  Those of us in business and those with a home to keep running aren't going to lose what we have just because some of you think we owe you a damn job.  Employers create the job; they own the job; constitutionally speaking we can give them to whomever we damn well please.

We got into this clusterphuck of a situation because years ago the blacks demanded that they be given the jobs.  Now you want them because you're born in the United States.  I can't hire people that don't apply; can't afford to pay you if you don't work.  Passing laws just costs you extra taxes.  

If you could succeed at closing me down,* NO* jobs would exist.  You see, when the wheels of commerce run, other jobs are created.  Here's your situation:

A Mexican kid comes along and takes a job at $20 an hour.  He APPLIED for the job.  You didn't find it because you're on the Internet bitching.  The Mexican guy has kids and an apartment (bills and responsibilities.)  Those of you bitching live in mommy's basement or your old bedroom of when you were 12.  You don't pay rent; on average most of you don't have an education, no job skills, no driver's license, and no work ethic.  All you have are tattoos, body piercings, a criminal record, an addiction to cigarettes and alcohol along with addictions to pot and possibly hard core drugs.

You want the right to be like that?  I fully support it.  But, if you live an irresponsible lifestyle, YOU pay for it.  Don't expect the employer to.  If you don't have your own house, YOU are fucking the rest of the taxpayers.  Property taxes are just as high, if not higher, than the income tax you FALSELY accuse the foreigners of not paying.  If you're living rent free with mommy (or if you're a parent with deadbeat kids), then YOU are the problem.  In all honesty I'd love to hire a staff of all white males.  The problem is most of them fit that previous paragraph and nobody should be forced to hire them.

Guys, I'm not losing what I have because some of you are too stupid to be able to compete against uneducated third worlders.  If you run big businesses out over who they hire, they will move to another country.  Then you get* NOTHING*... and if you're sitting on your ass playing video games, visiting sites on social media, smoking weed, worrying about your next body piercing or tattoo while living in your parents home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  If you're a parent letting your kids live at home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  Fix your culture, vote with your wallet and pocket book.  Boycott places that hire and / or cater to those you find offensive.  Quit thinking that you can build a government big enough to save your from your own stupidity.  In any event, get off the employers ass.  There is not a swinging dick on the face of the earth that is going to tell me who I can and cannot hire.  All this big government B.S. is over.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having looked this thread over carefully, it is painfully obvious that no matter how much is said, the right seems to be stuck on stupid on this issue.  Is there any way that people can be objective here?
> 
> *NOBODY *can show me any sentence in the United States Constitution that gives Congress the *authority *to limit the liberty of foreigners.  So, when I have work to do and advertise for people to come out, I'm going to hire the best qualified person at the price I can afford to pay (usually $20 to $40 an hour for basic handyman work.)
> 
> If you want the job, you have to get your ass off the Internet, forego social media, hang up your cell phone for a few hours and look for a job, then work it.  Those of us in business and those with a home to keep running aren't going to lose what we have just because some of you think we owe you a damn job.  Employers create the job; they own the job; constitutionally speaking we can give them to whomever we damn well please.
> 
> We got into this clusterphuck of a situation because years ago the blacks demanded that they be given the jobs.  Now you want them because you're born in the United States.  I can't hire people that don't apply; can't afford to pay you if you don't work.  Passing laws just costs you extra taxes.
> 
> If you could succeed at closing me down,* NO* jobs would exist.  You see, when the wheels of commerce run, other jobs are created.  Here's your situation:
> 
> A Mexican kid comes along and takes a job at $20 an hour.  He APPLIED for the job.  You didn't find it because you're on the Internet bitching.  The Mexican guy has kids and an apartment (bills and responsibilities.)  Those of you bitching live in mommy's basement or your old bedroom of when you were 12.  You don't pay rent; on average most of you don't have an education, no job skills, no driver's license, and no work ethic.  All you have are tattoos, body piercings, a criminal record, an addiction to cigarettes and alcohol along with addictions to pot and possibly hard core drugs.
> 
> You want the right to be like that?  I fully support it.  But, if you live an irresponsible lifestyle, YOU pay for it.  Don't expect the employer to.  If you don't have your own house, YOU are fucking the rest of the taxpayers.  Property taxes are just as high, if not higher, than the income tax you FALSELY accuse the foreigners of not paying.  If you're living rent free with mommy (or if you're a parent with deadbeat kids), then YOU are the problem.  In all honesty I'd love to hire a staff of all white males.  The problem is most of them fit that previous paragraph and nobody should be forced to hire them.
> 
> Guys, I'm not losing what I have because some of you are too stupid to be able to compete against uneducated third worlders.  If you run big businesses out over who they hire, they will move to another country.  Then you get* NOTHING*... and if you're sitting on your ass playing video games, visiting sites on social media, smoking weed, worrying about your next body piercing or tattoo while living in your parents home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  If you're a parent letting your kids live at home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  Fix your culture, vote with your wallet and pocket book.  Boycott places that hire and / or cater to those you find offensive.  Quit thinking that you can build a government big enough to save your from your own stupidity.  In any event, get off the employers ass.  There is not a swinging dick on the face of the earth that is going to tell me who I can and cannot hire.  All this big government B.S. is over.
Click to expand...


This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.

I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.  

And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.

GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.  

Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.  

Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.

This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.   

You should lose your business and go to jail.


----------



## sealybobo

Correll said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI, just contacted the White House, as a supporter, calling for punishment of employers of illegals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Went to the same place the call telling the White House that they can lower their credit card rates.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Doubt it.
Click to expand...

Read what Porter Rockwell said below this post of yours.  Tell him he's a fucking traitor.  He says he should be able to hire illegals and the reason he does is white blue collar men are drug addicts and losers.


----------



## sealybobo

pknopp said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too often us liberals end up talking about these issues and we are repeating the right wings talking points.
> 
> No, both parties are not to blame.  Us liberals have been screaming for decades that it's an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Let me give you an example.  If I was only making $30K a year here in America and Canadian companies were paying $200,000 a year, would I go illegally to Canada to work and send money home?  No question I would go.  But the minute they stopped hiring illegal Americans I would come back home.  Even though I would appeciate their free healthcare system.  It's the jobs that are drawing the illegals.  And if the corporations won't stop, they'll keep coming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Employers rarely ever getting arrested is a problem. It's not the only problem.
> 
> Obama Broke His Promise to Latinos
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you are showing me about Obama is not bad.  He deported illegals?  Good.  Guess what?  Most legal latino Americans don't give a fuck about illegals.  Whoever wrote that hit piece is either a lying con or a bleeding heart liberal.
> 
> The article said this While busy running six health clinics for low-income and mostly undocumented immigrants on Chicago’s southwest side, I strongly urged every Latino and immigrant registered voter I came across to support Obama.
> 
> So fuck that guy.  He's basically a sanctuary clinic harboring these criminals.  He caters to undocumented immigrants.
> 
> Trust me, the registered voters don't give a fuck about illegal immigrants.  And, they don't even vote.  What percent of latino's in Chicago do you think actually bother to vote?  And how many legal documented hispanics do you think are in Chicago?  Are there more legals than illegals?  I wonder.  I've been to this part of Chicago.  Jesus there are a lot of hispanics in that area.
> 
> This guy is a little bitch who wouldn't shake Obama's hand?  Fine!  Guess what?  Now we have a president who says all you Mexican's are murderers and rapists.
> 
> What the fuck do you want us to do?  Do you want to make open borders?  Make every illegal legal?  Fuck that!  They are deluding the job market and driving wages down.  Especially the illegal ones.
> 
> I don't see a problem with what Obama did.  What did you want him to do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, you sound just like Trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just because I don't like Trump does not mean I'm going to take the exact opposite position on every issue just because I refuse to agree with anything he says.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That does not make sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fact is right now Trump is the one who's right about immigrants legal or not.  Did you hear my story the other day where my girlfriends sister just moved here from Belarus with 2 kids and her husband disappeared?  So she's going to get free obamacare, free foodstamps, free elementary.  The parents aren't paying into the system and their kids are going to be a strain on our resources.  So why the fuck did we let them in?  One thing is they are white.  I'm sure Republicans don't mind poor white immigrants as much as they do dark immigrants.  But the fact is, they should have never let my girlfriends sister and husband in.  And if she applies to aid I hope they go after her husband for child support.  He's going to be a truck driver as soon as he can speak English.  Again, they should have never been accepted into the USA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I saw it and ignored it as anecdotal examples prove nothing. There is no way to verify anything and one off examples of something proves very little.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One thing he's right about is illegals are destroying our country.  They take too much out when they don't pay in enough.  They get free healthcare, their kids go to our public schools, they get foodstamps maybe, etc.  They take jobs for lower pay than an American will do thus hurting the middle class.
> 
> Each year the rich save billions hiring illegals.  Do you know what that means?  That means each year illegals cost the American middle class billions.  No denying it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump does say that but he does not do the things that would actually address the issue. Arrest those employing them. I am 100% for that.
Click to expand...


I showed this to my girlfriend and now maybe her sister won't be asking for foodstamps

Trump to deny green cards to immigrants receiving public benefits


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having looked this thread over carefully, it is painfully obvious that no matter how much is said, the right seems to be stuck on stupid on this issue.  Is there any way that people can be objective here?
> 
> *NOBODY *can show me any sentence in the United States Constitution that gives Congress the *authority *to limit the liberty of foreigners.  So, when I have work to do and advertise for people to come out, I'm going to hire the best qualified person at the price I can afford to pay (usually $20 to $40 an hour for basic handyman work.)
> 
> If you want the job, you have to get your ass off the Internet, forego social media, hang up your cell phone for a few hours and look for a job, then work it.  Those of us in business and those with a home to keep running aren't going to lose what we have just because some of you think we owe you a damn job.  Employers create the job; they own the job; constitutionally speaking we can give them to whomever we damn well please.
> 
> We got into this clusterphuck of a situation because years ago the blacks demanded that they be given the jobs.  Now you want them because you're born in the United States.  I can't hire people that don't apply; can't afford to pay you if you don't work.  Passing laws just costs you extra taxes.
> 
> If you could succeed at closing me down,* NO* jobs would exist.  You see, when the wheels of commerce run, other jobs are created.  Here's your situation:
> 
> A Mexican kid comes along and takes a job at $20 an hour.  He APPLIED for the job.  You didn't find it because you're on the Internet bitching.  The Mexican guy has kids and an apartment (bills and responsibilities.)  Those of you bitching live in mommy's basement or your old bedroom of when you were 12.  You don't pay rent; on average most of you don't have an education, no job skills, no driver's license, and no work ethic.  All you have are tattoos, body piercings, a criminal record, an addiction to cigarettes and alcohol along with addictions to pot and possibly hard core drugs.
> 
> You want the right to be like that?  I fully support it.  But, if you live an irresponsible lifestyle, YOU pay for it.  Don't expect the employer to.  If you don't have your own house, YOU are fucking the rest of the taxpayers.  Property taxes are just as high, if not higher, than the income tax you FALSELY accuse the foreigners of not paying.  If you're living rent free with mommy (or if you're a parent with deadbeat kids), then YOU are the problem.  In all honesty I'd love to hire a staff of all white males.  The problem is most of them fit that previous paragraph and nobody should be forced to hire them.
> 
> Guys, I'm not losing what I have because some of you are too stupid to be able to compete against uneducated third worlders.  If you run big businesses out over who they hire, they will move to another country.  Then you get* NOTHING*... and if you're sitting on your ass playing video games, visiting sites on social media, smoking weed, worrying about your next body piercing or tattoo while living in your parents home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  If you're a parent letting your kids live at home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  Fix your culture, vote with your wallet and pocket book.  Boycott places that hire and / or cater to those you find offensive.  Quit thinking that you can build a government big enough to save your from your own stupidity.  In any event, get off the employers ass.  There is not a swinging dick on the face of the earth that is going to tell me who I can and cannot hire.  All this big government B.S. is over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
Click to expand...



I'm sorry, but the country does *NOT *disagree with me.  We're all adults here, son.  So, let's be honest.  If a majority of people picked the president, they chose Hitlery Clinton.  She got the most votes.  So, you're wrong on that count.

On the second count, the United States Supreme Court has opined that *NO ONE *is obligated to obey an unconstitutional act.  That is THEIR logic, not mine.

Now then, the only authority the federal government has over foreigners is "_Congress shall have the power ...To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization_"  (Article 1  Section 8 of the Constitution) which they did only months after the ratification of the United States Constitution.  In that law, it provided that:

"_Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a *free white person*, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof_..."

*United States Congress, “An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization” (March 26, 1790)*

Despite this fact, foreigners came here to work and do business for *EIGHTY FIVE YEARS* before the United States Supreme Court stepped in and granted "_plenary powers_" to the federal government for everything related to foreigners in about 1875 - 1876. 

I will give you $10,000 (TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS) in cash to cite one sentence from the Constitution wherein the framers gave the United States Supreme Court to grant to any other branch of government *ANY* power, much less plenary powers.  The United States Supreme Court legislated from the bench.  And you won't have the ethical wherewithal to admit that the high Court legislated from the bench which *disrespects the Rule of Law*.  You Trumpsters preach about it, but sure as Hell don't want to live by it.  Hypocrites, every one of you!

Adding insult to injury, Congress* ILLEGALLY* passed the 14th Amendment that you probably think is valid.  If not for that Amendment, you wouldn't have all those brown babies born in the U.S. you'd like to call a racist name, but cowardly chose "_anchor babies_," and that pretext proved to be false as parents are being deported and you're being left to pay welfare for their American born children.

To give you the coup de grace, the 14th Amendment gave foreigners (regardless of any liberal immigration status the Democrats thought up for you) the government right of liberty (sic.)  While doing that they *NULLIFIED* the Bill of Rights.  This link will explain it to you:

Stolen Rights

If I get shut down, the government will raise taxes somewhere to compensate for the loss.  And you'll pay them.  You can't win.  You're on the wrong side of the argument (you're actually arguing in favor of socialism)  and you're on the wrong side of history.  That above link will help you a lot.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having looked this thread over carefully, it is painfully obvious that no matter how much is said, the right seems to be stuck on stupid on this issue.  Is there any way that people can be objective here?
> 
> *NOBODY *can show me any sentence in the United States Constitution that gives Congress the *authority *to limit the liberty of foreigners.  So, when I have work to do and advertise for people to come out, I'm going to hire the best qualified person at the price I can afford to pay (usually $20 to $40 an hour for basic handyman work.)
> 
> If you want the job, you have to get your ass off the Internet, forego social media, hang up your cell phone for a few hours and look for a job, then work it.  Those of us in business and those with a home to keep running aren't going to lose what we have just because some of you think we owe you a damn job.  Employers create the job; they own the job; constitutionally speaking we can give them to whomever we damn well please.
> 
> We got into this clusterphuck of a situation because years ago the blacks demanded that they be given the jobs.  Now you want them because you're born in the United States.  I can't hire people that don't apply; can't afford to pay you if you don't work.  Passing laws just costs you extra taxes.
> 
> If you could succeed at closing me down,* NO* jobs would exist.  You see, when the wheels of commerce run, other jobs are created.  Here's your situation:
> 
> A Mexican kid comes along and takes a job at $20 an hour.  He APPLIED for the job.  You didn't find it because you're on the Internet bitching.  The Mexican guy has kids and an apartment (bills and responsibilities.)  Those of you bitching live in mommy's basement or your old bedroom of when you were 12.  You don't pay rent; on average most of you don't have an education, no job skills, no driver's license, and no work ethic.  All you have are tattoos, body piercings, a criminal record, an addiction to cigarettes and alcohol along with addictions to pot and possibly hard core drugs.
> 
> You want the right to be like that?  I fully support it.  But, if you live an irresponsible lifestyle, YOU pay for it.  Don't expect the employer to.  If you don't have your own house, YOU are fucking the rest of the taxpayers.  Property taxes are just as high, if not higher, than the income tax you FALSELY accuse the foreigners of not paying.  If you're living rent free with mommy (or if you're a parent with deadbeat kids), then YOU are the problem.  In all honesty I'd love to hire a staff of all white males.  The problem is most of them fit that previous paragraph and nobody should be forced to hire them.
> 
> Guys, I'm not losing what I have because some of you are too stupid to be able to compete against uneducated third worlders.  If you run big businesses out over who they hire, they will move to another country.  Then you get* NOTHING*... and if you're sitting on your ass playing video games, visiting sites on social media, smoking weed, worrying about your next body piercing or tattoo while living in your parents home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  If you're a parent letting your kids live at home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  Fix your culture, vote with your wallet and pocket book.  Boycott places that hire and / or cater to those you find offensive.  Quit thinking that you can build a government big enough to save your from your own stupidity.  In any event, get off the employers ass.  There is not a swinging dick on the face of the earth that is going to tell me who I can and cannot hire.  All this big government B.S. is over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but the country does *NOT *disagree with me.  We're all adults here, son.  So, let's be honest.  If a majority of people picked the president, they chose Hitlery Clinton.  She got the most votes.  So, you're wrong on that count.
> 
> On the second count, the United States Supreme Court has opined that *NO ONE *is obligated to obey an unconstitutional act.  That is THEIR logic, not mine.
> 
> Now then, the only authority the federal government has over foreigners is "_Congress shall have the power ...To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization_"  (Article 1  Section 8 of the Constitution) which they did only months after the ratification of the United States Constitution.  In that law, it provided that:
> 
> "_Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a *free white person*, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof_..."
> 
> *United States Congress, “An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization” (March 26, 1790)*
> 
> Despite this fact, foreigners came here to work and do business for *EIGHTY FIVE YEARS* before the United States Supreme Court stepped in and granted "_plenary powers_" to the federal government for everything related to foreigners in about 1875 - 1876.
> 
> I will give you $10,000 (TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS) in cash to cite one sentence from the Constitution wherein the framers gave the United States Supreme Court to grant to any other branch of government *ANY* power, much less plenary powers.  The United States Supreme Court legislated from the bench.  And you won't have the ethical wherewithal to admit that the high Court legislated from the bench which *disrespects the Rule of Law*.  You Trumpsters preach about it, but sure as Hell don't want to live by it.  Hypocrites, every one of you!
> 
> Adding insult to injury, Congress* ILLEGALLY* passed the 14th Amendment that you probably think is valid.  If not for that Amendment, you wouldn't have all those brown babies born in the U.S. you'd like to call a racist name, but cowardly chose "_anchor babies_," and that pretext proved to be false as parents are being deported and you're being left to pay welfare for their American born children.
> 
> To give you the coup de grace, the 14th Amendment gave foreigners (regardless of any liberal immigration status the Democrats thought up for you) the government right of liberty (sic.)  While doing that they *NULLIFIED* the Bill of Rights.  This link will explain it to you:
> 
> Stolen Rights
> 
> If I get shut down, the government will raise taxes somewhere to compensate for the loss.  And you'll pay them.  You can't win.  You're on the wrong side of the argument (you're actually arguing in favor of socialism)  and you're on the wrong side of history.  That above link will help you a lot.
Click to expand...


So muslim illegals can come flooding in over the border and we are powerless to stop you from hiring them?

This is just ridiculous.  Does anyone here at USMB agree with you?  Or are you just trying to be outrageous?  

There will be no loss.  Another American will just fill in that void you left when we shut your business down.

Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"

You know who agrees with you?  All the illegal employers in America.  

And I've been telling these stupid Republicans that it is YOU who is the problem and not illegal immigrants but Fox and Rush got these idiots worshipping you job creators.  Little do they know you are stealing from the American middle class.

The cost of illegal immigration to taxpayers is growing at an unsustainable pace


----------



## pknopp

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having looked this thread over carefully, it is painfully obvious that no matter how much is said, the right seems to be stuck on stupid on this issue.  Is there any way that people can be objective here?
> 
> *NOBODY *can show me any sentence in the United States Constitution that gives Congress the *authority *to limit the liberty of foreigners.  So, when I have work to do and advertise for people to come out, I'm going to hire the best qualified person at the price I can afford to pay (usually $20 to $40 an hour for basic handyman work.)
> 
> If you want the job, you have to get your ass off the Internet, forego social media, hang up your cell phone for a few hours and look for a job, then work it.  Those of us in business and those with a home to keep running aren't going to lose what we have just because some of you think we owe you a damn job.  Employers create the job; they own the job; constitutionally speaking we can give them to whomever we damn well please.
> 
> We got into this clusterphuck of a situation because years ago the blacks demanded that they be given the jobs.  Now you want them because you're born in the United States.  I can't hire people that don't apply; can't afford to pay you if you don't work.  Passing laws just costs you extra taxes.
> 
> If you could succeed at closing me down,* NO* jobs would exist.  You see, when the wheels of commerce run, other jobs are created.  Here's your situation:
> 
> A Mexican kid comes along and takes a job at $20 an hour.  He APPLIED for the job.  You didn't find it because you're on the Internet bitching.  The Mexican guy has kids and an apartment (bills and responsibilities.)  Those of you bitching live in mommy's basement or your old bedroom of when you were 12.  You don't pay rent; on average most of you don't have an education, no job skills, no driver's license, and no work ethic.  All you have are tattoos, body piercings, a criminal record, an addiction to cigarettes and alcohol along with addictions to pot and possibly hard core drugs.
> 
> You want the right to be like that?  I fully support it.  But, if you live an irresponsible lifestyle, YOU pay for it.  Don't expect the employer to.  If you don't have your own house, YOU are fucking the rest of the taxpayers.  Property taxes are just as high, if not higher, than the income tax you FALSELY accuse the foreigners of not paying.  If you're living rent free with mommy (or if you're a parent with deadbeat kids), then YOU are the problem.  In all honesty I'd love to hire a staff of all white males.  The problem is most of them fit that previous paragraph and nobody should be forced to hire them.
> 
> Guys, I'm not losing what I have because some of you are too stupid to be able to compete against uneducated third worlders.  If you run big businesses out over who they hire, they will move to another country.  Then you get* NOTHING*... and if you're sitting on your ass playing video games, visiting sites on social media, smoking weed, worrying about your next body piercing or tattoo while living in your parents home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  If you're a parent letting your kids live at home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  Fix your culture, vote with your wallet and pocket book.  Boycott places that hire and / or cater to those you find offensive.  Quit thinking that you can build a government big enough to save your from your own stupidity.  In any event, get off the employers ass.  There is not a swinging dick on the face of the earth that is going to tell me who I can and cannot hire.  All this big government B.S. is over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but the country does *NOT *disagree with me.  We're all adults here, son.  So, let's be honest.  If a majority of people picked the president, they chose Hitlery Clinton.  She got the most votes.  So, you're wrong on that count.
> 
> On the second count, the United States Supreme Court has opined that *NO ONE *is obligated to obey an unconstitutional act.  That is THEIR logic, not mine.
> 
> Now then, the only authority the federal government has over foreigners is "_Congress shall have the power ...To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization_"  (Article 1  Section 8 of the Constitution) which they did only months after the ratification of the United States Constitution.  In that law, it provided that:
> 
> "_Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a *free white person*, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof_..."
> 
> *United States Congress, “An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization” (March 26, 1790)*
> 
> Despite this fact, foreigners came here to work and do business for *EIGHTY FIVE YEARS* before the United States Supreme Court stepped in and granted "_plenary powers_" to the federal government for everything related to foreigners in about 1875 - 1876.
> 
> I will give you $10,000 (TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS) in cash to cite one sentence from the Constitution wherein the framers gave the United States Supreme Court to grant to any other branch of government *ANY* power, much less plenary powers.  The United States Supreme Court legislated from the bench.  And you won't have the ethical wherewithal to admit that the high Court legislated from the bench which *disrespects the Rule of Law*.  You Trumpsters preach about it, but sure as Hell don't want to live by it.  Hypocrites, every one of you!
> 
> Adding insult to injury, Congress* ILLEGALLY* passed the 14th Amendment that you probably think is valid.  If not for that Amendment, you wouldn't have all those brown babies born in the U.S. you'd like to call a racist name, but cowardly chose "_anchor babies_," and that pretext proved to be false as parents are being deported and you're being left to pay welfare for their American born children.
> 
> To give you the coup de grace, the 14th Amendment gave foreigners (regardless of any liberal immigration status the Democrats thought up for you) the government right of liberty (sic.)  While doing that they *NULLIFIED* the Bill of Rights.  This link will explain it to you:
> 
> Stolen Rights
> 
> If I get shut down, the government will raise taxes somewhere to compensate for the loss.  And you'll pay them.  You can't win.  You're on the wrong side of the argument (you're actually arguing in favor of socialism)  and you're on the wrong side of history.  That above link will help you a lot.
Click to expand...


 OK, I'm curious (though I do not know why) how was the 14th passed illegally?


----------



## pknopp

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having looked this thread over carefully, it is painfully obvious that no matter how much is said, the right seems to be stuck on stupid on this issue.  Is there any way that people can be objective here?
> 
> *NOBODY *can show me any sentence in the United States Constitution that gives Congress the *authority *to limit the liberty of foreigners.  So, when I have work to do and advertise for people to come out, I'm going to hire the best qualified person at the price I can afford to pay (usually $20 to $40 an hour for basic handyman work.)
> 
> If you want the job, you have to get your ass off the Internet, forego social media, hang up your cell phone for a few hours and look for a job, then work it.  Those of us in business and those with a home to keep running aren't going to lose what we have just because some of you think we owe you a damn job.  Employers create the job; they own the job; constitutionally speaking we can give them to whomever we damn well please.
> 
> We got into this clusterphuck of a situation because years ago the blacks demanded that they be given the jobs.  Now you want them because you're born in the United States.  I can't hire people that don't apply; can't afford to pay you if you don't work.  Passing laws just costs you extra taxes.
> 
> If you could succeed at closing me down,* NO* jobs would exist.  You see, when the wheels of commerce run, other jobs are created.  Here's your situation:
> 
> A Mexican kid comes along and takes a job at $20 an hour.  He APPLIED for the job.  You didn't find it because you're on the Internet bitching.  The Mexican guy has kids and an apartment (bills and responsibilities.)  Those of you bitching live in mommy's basement or your old bedroom of when you were 12.  You don't pay rent; on average most of you don't have an education, no job skills, no driver's license, and no work ethic.  All you have are tattoos, body piercings, a criminal record, an addiction to cigarettes and alcohol along with addictions to pot and possibly hard core drugs.
> 
> You want the right to be like that?  I fully support it.  But, if you live an irresponsible lifestyle, YOU pay for it.  Don't expect the employer to.  If you don't have your own house, YOU are fucking the rest of the taxpayers.  Property taxes are just as high, if not higher, than the income tax you FALSELY accuse the foreigners of not paying.  If you're living rent free with mommy (or if you're a parent with deadbeat kids), then YOU are the problem.  In all honesty I'd love to hire a staff of all white males.  The problem is most of them fit that previous paragraph and nobody should be forced to hire them.
> 
> Guys, I'm not losing what I have because some of you are too stupid to be able to compete against uneducated third worlders.  If you run big businesses out over who they hire, they will move to another country.  Then you get* NOTHING*... and if you're sitting on your ass playing video games, visiting sites on social media, smoking weed, worrying about your next body piercing or tattoo while living in your parents home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  If you're a parent letting your kids live at home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  Fix your culture, vote with your wallet and pocket book.  Boycott places that hire and / or cater to those you find offensive.  Quit thinking that you can build a government big enough to save your from your own stupidity.  In any event, get off the employers ass.  There is not a swinging dick on the face of the earth that is going to tell me who I can and cannot hire.  All this big government B.S. is over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but the country does *NOT *disagree with me.  We're all adults here, son.  So, let's be honest.  If a majority of people picked the president, they chose Hitlery Clinton.  She got the most votes.  So, you're wrong on that count.
> 
> On the second count, the United States Supreme Court has opined that *NO ONE *is obligated to obey an unconstitutional act.  That is THEIR logic, not mine.
> 
> Now then, the only authority the federal government has over foreigners is "_Congress shall have the power ...To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization_"  (Article 1  Section 8 of the Constitution) which they did only months after the ratification of the United States Constitution.  In that law, it provided that:
> 
> "_Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a *free white person*, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof_..."
> 
> *United States Congress, “An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization” (March 26, 1790)*
> 
> Despite this fact, foreigners came here to work and do business for *EIGHTY FIVE YEARS* before the United States Supreme Court stepped in and granted "_plenary powers_" to the federal government for everything related to foreigners in about 1875 - 1876.
> 
> I will give you $10,000 (TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS) in cash to cite one sentence from the Constitution wherein the framers gave the United States Supreme Court to grant to any other branch of government *ANY* power, much less plenary powers.  The United States Supreme Court legislated from the bench.  And you won't have the ethical wherewithal to admit that the high Court legislated from the bench which *disrespects the Rule of Law*.  You Trumpsters preach about it, but sure as Hell don't want to live by it.  Hypocrites, every one of you!
> 
> Adding insult to injury, Congress* ILLEGALLY* passed the 14th Amendment that you probably think is valid.  If not for that Amendment, you wouldn't have all those brown babies born in the U.S. you'd like to call a racist name, but cowardly chose "_anchor babies_," and that pretext proved to be false as parents are being deported and you're being left to pay welfare for their American born children.
> 
> To give you the coup de grace, the 14th Amendment gave foreigners (regardless of any liberal immigration status the Democrats thought up for you) the government right of liberty (sic.)  While doing that they *NULLIFIED* the Bill of Rights.  This link will explain it to you:
> 
> Stolen Rights
> 
> If I get shut down, the government will raise taxes somewhere to compensate for the loss.  And you'll pay them.  You can't win.  You're on the wrong side of the argument (you're actually arguing in favor of socialism)  and you're on the wrong side of history.  That above link will help you a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So muslim illegals can come flooding in over the border and we are powerless to stop you from hiring them?
> 
> This is just ridiculous.  Does anyone here at USMB agree with you?  Or are you just trying to be outrageous?
Click to expand...

 
 If we are not going to physically stop employers from hiring illegals we might as well be considered powerless to stop them.



> There will be no loss.  Another American will just fill in that void you left when we shut your business down.


 
 Not going to happen in any meaningful numbers.



> Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> You know who agrees with you?  All the illegal employers in America.


 
 And they have the ear of D.C. You aren't going to out fund them. 



> And I've been telling these stupid Republicans that it is YOU who is the problem and not illegal immigrants but Fox and Rush got these idiots worshipping you job creators.  Little do they know you are stealing from the American middle class.
> 
> The cost of illegal immigration to taxpayers is growing at an unsustainable pace


 
 They know.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having looked this thread over carefully, it is painfully obvious that no matter how much is said, the right seems to be stuck on stupid on this issue.  Is there any way that people can be objective here?
> 
> *NOBODY *can show me any sentence in the United States Constitution that gives Congress the *authority *to limit the liberty of foreigners.  So, when I have work to do and advertise for people to come out, I'm going to hire the best qualified person at the price I can afford to pay (usually $20 to $40 an hour for basic handyman work.)
> 
> If you want the job, you have to get your ass off the Internet, forego social media, hang up your cell phone for a few hours and look for a job, then work it.  Those of us in business and those with a home to keep running aren't going to lose what we have just because some of you think we owe you a damn job.  Employers create the job; they own the job; constitutionally speaking we can give them to whomever we damn well please.
> 
> We got into this clusterphuck of a situation because years ago the blacks demanded that they be given the jobs.  Now you want them because you're born in the United States.  I can't hire people that don't apply; can't afford to pay you if you don't work.  Passing laws just costs you extra taxes.
> 
> If you could succeed at closing me down,* NO* jobs would exist.  You see, when the wheels of commerce run, other jobs are created.  Here's your situation:
> 
> A Mexican kid comes along and takes a job at $20 an hour.  He APPLIED for the job.  You didn't find it because you're on the Internet bitching.  The Mexican guy has kids and an apartment (bills and responsibilities.)  Those of you bitching live in mommy's basement or your old bedroom of when you were 12.  You don't pay rent; on average most of you don't have an education, no job skills, no driver's license, and no work ethic.  All you have are tattoos, body piercings, a criminal record, an addiction to cigarettes and alcohol along with addictions to pot and possibly hard core drugs.
> 
> You want the right to be like that?  I fully support it.  But, if you live an irresponsible lifestyle, YOU pay for it.  Don't expect the employer to.  If you don't have your own house, YOU are fucking the rest of the taxpayers.  Property taxes are just as high, if not higher, than the income tax you FALSELY accuse the foreigners of not paying.  If you're living rent free with mommy (or if you're a parent with deadbeat kids), then YOU are the problem.  In all honesty I'd love to hire a staff of all white males.  The problem is most of them fit that previous paragraph and nobody should be forced to hire them.
> 
> Guys, I'm not losing what I have because some of you are too stupid to be able to compete against uneducated third worlders.  If you run big businesses out over who they hire, they will move to another country.  Then you get* NOTHING*... and if you're sitting on your ass playing video games, visiting sites on social media, smoking weed, worrying about your next body piercing or tattoo while living in your parents home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  If you're a parent letting your kids live at home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  Fix your culture, vote with your wallet and pocket book.  Boycott places that hire and / or cater to those you find offensive.  Quit thinking that you can build a government big enough to save your from your own stupidity.  In any event, get off the employers ass.  There is not a swinging dick on the face of the earth that is going to tell me who I can and cannot hire.  All this big government B.S. is over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but the country does *NOT *disagree with me.  We're all adults here, son.  So, let's be honest.  If a majority of people picked the president, they chose Hitlery Clinton.  She got the most votes.  So, you're wrong on that count.
> 
> On the second count, the United States Supreme Court has opined that *NO ONE *is obligated to obey an unconstitutional act.  That is THEIR logic, not mine.
> 
> Now then, the only authority the federal government has over foreigners is "_Congress shall have the power ...To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization_"  (Article 1  Section 8 of the Constitution) which they did only months after the ratification of the United States Constitution.  In that law, it provided that:
> 
> "_Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a *free white person*, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof_..."
> 
> *United States Congress, “An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization” (March 26, 1790)*
> 
> Despite this fact, foreigners came here to work and do business for *EIGHTY FIVE YEARS* before the United States Supreme Court stepped in and granted "_plenary powers_" to the federal government for everything related to foreigners in about 1875 - 1876.
> 
> I will give you $10,000 (TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS) in cash to cite one sentence from the Constitution wherein the framers gave the United States Supreme Court to grant to any other branch of government *ANY* power, much less plenary powers.  The United States Supreme Court legislated from the bench.  And you won't have the ethical wherewithal to admit that the high Court legislated from the bench which *disrespects the Rule of Law*.  You Trumpsters preach about it, but sure as Hell don't want to live by it.  Hypocrites, every one of you!
> 
> Adding insult to injury, Congress* ILLEGALLY* passed the 14th Amendment that you probably think is valid.  If not for that Amendment, you wouldn't have all those brown babies born in the U.S. you'd like to call a racist name, but cowardly chose "_anchor babies_," and that pretext proved to be false as parents are being deported and you're being left to pay welfare for their American born children.
> 
> To give you the coup de grace, the 14th Amendment gave foreigners (regardless of any liberal immigration status the Democrats thought up for you) the government right of liberty (sic.)  While doing that they *NULLIFIED* the Bill of Rights.  This link will explain it to you:
> 
> Stolen Rights
> 
> If I get shut down, the government will raise taxes somewhere to compensate for the loss.  And you'll pay them.  You can't win.  You're on the wrong side of the argument (you're actually arguing in favor of socialism)  and you're on the wrong side of history.  That above link will help you a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So muslim illegals can come flooding in over the border and we are powerless to stop you from hiring them?
> 
> This is just ridiculous.  Does anyone here at USMB agree with you?  Or are you just trying to be outrageous?
> 
> There will be no loss.  Another American will just fill in that void you left when we shut your business down.
> 
> Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> You know who agrees with you?  All the illegal employers in America.
> 
> And I've been telling these stupid Republicans that it is YOU who is the problem and not illegal immigrants but Fox and Rush got these idiots worshipping you job creators.  Little do they know you are stealing from the American middle class.
> 
> The cost of illegal immigration to taxpayers is growing at an unsustainable pace
Click to expand...


America is a REPUBLIC, not a democracy.  If everybody here wants to disagree, that is their Right as an American.  You dodged replying to the link I left.  Wonder why.

No Americans are filling the void left by American businesses.  Foreigners are buying them up.  You sit on your ass and pray for my demise, thinking I owe you a job because your sorry ass was born in the USA.

You have to go to school; you have to learn how to do a job; you have to develop a work ethic.  Then you have to APPLY for the job.  People like you don't.  You're here all day moaning and groaning, crying and complaining when you should be acquiring a skill set.  The job ins't going to come and find you son.  

If I get put out of business, there will be Hispanics and Jamaicans that will be doing this stuff the next day.  I've already told your dumb ass I'd hire a whole staff of white American males, but finding white people who aren't on drugs, have their head into video games and social media is like trying to find gold nuggets in a septic tank.

Clean up your culture and your problems will go away on their own.  The government is powerless to save you from your own stupidity.


----------



## Correll

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having looked this thread over carefully, it is painfully obvious that no matter how much is said, the right seems to be stuck on stupid on this issue.  Is there any way that people can be objective here?
> 
> *NOBODY *can show me any sentence in the United States Constitution that gives Congress the *authority *to limit the liberty of foreigners.  So, when I have work to do and advertise for people to come out, I'm going to hire the best qualified person at the price I can afford to pay (usually $20 to $40 an hour for basic handyman work.)
> 
> If you want the job, you have to get your ass off the Internet, forego social media, hang up your cell phone for a few hours and look for a job, then work it.  Those of us in business and those with a home to keep running aren't going to lose what we have just because some of you think we owe you a damn job.  Employers create the job; they own the job; constitutionally speaking we can give them to whomever we damn well please.
> 
> We got into this clusterphuck of a situation because years ago the blacks demanded that they be given the jobs.  Now you want them because you're born in the United States.  I can't hire people that don't apply; can't afford to pay you if you don't work.  Passing laws just costs you extra taxes.
> 
> If you could succeed at closing me down,* NO* jobs would exist.  You see, when the wheels of commerce run, other jobs are created.  Here's your situation:
> 
> A Mexican kid comes along and takes a job at $20 an hour.  He APPLIED for the job.  You didn't find it because you're on the Internet bitching.  The Mexican guy has kids and an apartment (bills and responsibilities.)  Those of you bitching live in mommy's basement or your old bedroom of when you were 12.  You don't pay rent; on average most of you don't have an education, no job skills, no driver's license, and no work ethic.  All you have are tattoos, body piercings, a criminal record, an addiction to cigarettes and alcohol along with addictions to pot and possibly hard core drugs.
> 
> You want the right to be like that?  I fully support it.  But, if you live an irresponsible lifestyle, YOU pay for it.  Don't expect the employer to.  If you don't have your own house, YOU are fucking the rest of the taxpayers.  Property taxes are just as high, if not higher, than the income tax you FALSELY accuse the foreigners of not paying.  If you're living rent free with mommy (or if you're a parent with deadbeat kids), then YOU are the problem.  In all honesty I'd love to hire a staff of all white males.  The problem is most of them fit that previous paragraph and nobody should be forced to hire them.
> 
> Guys, I'm not losing what I have because some of you are too stupid to be able to compete against uneducated third worlders.  If you run big businesses out over who they hire, they will move to another country.  Then you get* NOTHING*... and if you're sitting on your ass playing video games, visiting sites on social media, smoking weed, worrying about your next body piercing or tattoo while living in your parents home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  If you're a parent letting your kids live at home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  Fix your culture, vote with your wallet and pocket book.  Boycott places that hire and / or cater to those you find offensive.  Quit thinking that you can build a government big enough to save your from your own stupidity.  In any event, get off the employers ass.  There is not a swinging dick on the face of the earth that is going to tell me who I can and cannot hire.  All this big government B.S. is over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
Click to expand...



Rockwell is very far out there. I doubt he is a Trump supporter. If he is, considering his disagreement with the concept of immigration law, his reasoning is probably pretty muddled.


----------



## Correll

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI, just contacted the White House, as a supporter, calling for punishment of employers of illegals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Went to the same place the call telling the White House that they can lower their credit card rates.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Doubt it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Read what Porter Rockwell said below this post of yours.  Tell him he's a fucking traitor.  He says he should be able to hire illegals and the reason he does is white blue collar men are drug addicts and losers.
Click to expand...


I've gone over that with him for many pages, over many days.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

pknopp said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having looked this thread over carefully, it is painfully obvious that no matter how much is said, the right seems to be stuck on stupid on this issue.  Is there any way that people can be objective here?
> 
> *NOBODY *can show me any sentence in the United States Constitution that gives Congress the *authority *to limit the liberty of foreigners.  So, when I have work to do and advertise for people to come out, I'm going to hire the best qualified person at the price I can afford to pay (usually $20 to $40 an hour for basic handyman work.)
> 
> If you want the job, you have to get your ass off the Internet, forego social media, hang up your cell phone for a few hours and look for a job, then work it.  Those of us in business and those with a home to keep running aren't going to lose what we have just because some of you think we owe you a damn job.  Employers create the job; they own the job; constitutionally speaking we can give them to whomever we damn well please.
> 
> We got into this clusterphuck of a situation because years ago the blacks demanded that they be given the jobs.  Now you want them because you're born in the United States.  I can't hire people that don't apply; can't afford to pay you if you don't work.  Passing laws just costs you extra taxes.
> 
> If you could succeed at closing me down,* NO* jobs would exist.  You see, when the wheels of commerce run, other jobs are created.  Here's your situation:
> 
> A Mexican kid comes along and takes a job at $20 an hour.  He APPLIED for the job.  You didn't find it because you're on the Internet bitching.  The Mexican guy has kids and an apartment (bills and responsibilities.)  Those of you bitching live in mommy's basement or your old bedroom of when you were 12.  You don't pay rent; on average most of you don't have an education, no job skills, no driver's license, and no work ethic.  All you have are tattoos, body piercings, a criminal record, an addiction to cigarettes and alcohol along with addictions to pot and possibly hard core drugs.
> 
> You want the right to be like that?  I fully support it.  But, if you live an irresponsible lifestyle, YOU pay for it.  Don't expect the employer to.  If you don't have your own house, YOU are fucking the rest of the taxpayers.  Property taxes are just as high, if not higher, than the income tax you FALSELY accuse the foreigners of not paying.  If you're living rent free with mommy (or if you're a parent with deadbeat kids), then YOU are the problem.  In all honesty I'd love to hire a staff of all white males.  The problem is most of them fit that previous paragraph and nobody should be forced to hire them.
> 
> Guys, I'm not losing what I have because some of you are too stupid to be able to compete against uneducated third worlders.  If you run big businesses out over who they hire, they will move to another country.  Then you get* NOTHING*... and if you're sitting on your ass playing video games, visiting sites on social media, smoking weed, worrying about your next body piercing or tattoo while living in your parents home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  If you're a parent letting your kids live at home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  Fix your culture, vote with your wallet and pocket book.  Boycott places that hire and / or cater to those you find offensive.  Quit thinking that you can build a government big enough to save your from your own stupidity.  In any event, get off the employers ass.  There is not a swinging dick on the face of the earth that is going to tell me who I can and cannot hire.  All this big government B.S. is over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but the country does *NOT *disagree with me.  We're all adults here, son.  So, let's be honest.  If a majority of people picked the president, they chose Hitlery Clinton.  She got the most votes.  So, you're wrong on that count.
> 
> On the second count, the United States Supreme Court has opined that *NO ONE *is obligated to obey an unconstitutional act.  That is THEIR logic, not mine.
> 
> Now then, the only authority the federal government has over foreigners is "_Congress shall have the power ...To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization_"  (Article 1  Section 8 of the Constitution) which they did only months after the ratification of the United States Constitution.  In that law, it provided that:
> 
> "_Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a *free white person*, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof_..."
> 
> *United States Congress, “An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization” (March 26, 1790)*
> 
> Despite this fact, foreigners came here to work and do business for *EIGHTY FIVE YEARS* before the United States Supreme Court stepped in and granted "_plenary powers_" to the federal government for everything related to foreigners in about 1875 - 1876.
> 
> I will give you $10,000 (TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS) in cash to cite one sentence from the Constitution wherein the framers gave the United States Supreme Court to grant to any other branch of government *ANY* power, much less plenary powers.  The United States Supreme Court legislated from the bench.  And you won't have the ethical wherewithal to admit that the high Court legislated from the bench which *disrespects the Rule of Law*.  You Trumpsters preach about it, but sure as Hell don't want to live by it.  Hypocrites, every one of you!
> 
> Adding insult to injury, Congress* ILLEGALLY* passed the 14th Amendment that you probably think is valid.  If not for that Amendment, you wouldn't have all those brown babies born in the U.S. you'd like to call a racist name, but cowardly chose "_anchor babies_," and that pretext proved to be false as parents are being deported and you're being left to pay welfare for their American born children.
> 
> To give you the coup de grace, the 14th Amendment gave foreigners (regardless of any liberal immigration status the Democrats thought up for you) the government right of liberty (sic.)  While doing that they *NULLIFIED* the Bill of Rights.  This link will explain it to you:
> 
> Stolen Rights
> 
> If I get shut down, the government will raise taxes somewhere to compensate for the loss.  And you'll pay them.  You can't win.  You're on the wrong side of the argument (you're actually arguing in favor of socialism)  and you're on the wrong side of history.  That above link will help you a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, I'm curious (though I do not know why) how was the 14th passed illegally?
Click to expand...


Check out the link:

Stolen Rights

Also refer to the internal links.  You will understand why you do NOT have any Rights any longer.  Read it, refer to the links and then see if you still hold the same opinion you have about me.  Or are you afraid to?  Yeah, my answer will not fit on a bumper sticker.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

pknopp said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having looked this thread over carefully, it is painfully obvious that no matter how much is said, the right seems to be stuck on stupid on this issue.  Is there any way that people can be objective here?
> 
> *NOBODY *can show me any sentence in the United States Constitution that gives Congress the *authority *to limit the liberty of foreigners.  So, when I have work to do and advertise for people to come out, I'm going to hire the best qualified person at the price I can afford to pay (usually $20 to $40 an hour for basic handyman work.)
> 
> If you want the job, you have to get your ass off the Internet, forego social media, hang up your cell phone for a few hours and look for a job, then work it.  Those of us in business and those with a home to keep running aren't going to lose what we have just because some of you think we owe you a damn job.  Employers create the job; they own the job; constitutionally speaking we can give them to whomever we damn well please.
> 
> We got into this clusterphuck of a situation because years ago the blacks demanded that they be given the jobs.  Now you want them because you're born in the United States.  I can't hire people that don't apply; can't afford to pay you if you don't work.  Passing laws just costs you extra taxes.
> 
> If you could succeed at closing me down,* NO* jobs would exist.  You see, when the wheels of commerce run, other jobs are created.  Here's your situation:
> 
> A Mexican kid comes along and takes a job at $20 an hour.  He APPLIED for the job.  You didn't find it because you're on the Internet bitching.  The Mexican guy has kids and an apartment (bills and responsibilities.)  Those of you bitching live in mommy's basement or your old bedroom of when you were 12.  You don't pay rent; on average most of you don't have an education, no job skills, no driver's license, and no work ethic.  All you have are tattoos, body piercings, a criminal record, an addiction to cigarettes and alcohol along with addictions to pot and possibly hard core drugs.
> 
> You want the right to be like that?  I fully support it.  But, if you live an irresponsible lifestyle, YOU pay for it.  Don't expect the employer to.  If you don't have your own house, YOU are fucking the rest of the taxpayers.  Property taxes are just as high, if not higher, than the income tax you FALSELY accuse the foreigners of not paying.  If you're living rent free with mommy (or if you're a parent with deadbeat kids), then YOU are the problem.  In all honesty I'd love to hire a staff of all white males.  The problem is most of them fit that previous paragraph and nobody should be forced to hire them.
> 
> Guys, I'm not losing what I have because some of you are too stupid to be able to compete against uneducated third worlders.  If you run big businesses out over who they hire, they will move to another country.  Then you get* NOTHING*... and if you're sitting on your ass playing video games, visiting sites on social media, smoking weed, worrying about your next body piercing or tattoo while living in your parents home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  If you're a parent letting your kids live at home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  Fix your culture, vote with your wallet and pocket book.  Boycott places that hire and / or cater to those you find offensive.  Quit thinking that you can build a government big enough to save your from your own stupidity.  In any event, get off the employers ass.  There is not a swinging dick on the face of the earth that is going to tell me who I can and cannot hire.  All this big government B.S. is over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but the country does *NOT *disagree with me.  We're all adults here, son.  So, let's be honest.  If a majority of people picked the president, they chose Hitlery Clinton.  She got the most votes.  So, you're wrong on that count.
> 
> On the second count, the United States Supreme Court has opined that *NO ONE *is obligated to obey an unconstitutional act.  That is THEIR logic, not mine.
> 
> Now then, the only authority the federal government has over foreigners is "_Congress shall have the power ...To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization_"  (Article 1  Section 8 of the Constitution) which they did only months after the ratification of the United States Constitution.  In that law, it provided that:
> 
> "_Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a *free white person*, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof_..."
> 
> *United States Congress, “An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization” (March 26, 1790)*
> 
> Despite this fact, foreigners came here to work and do business for *EIGHTY FIVE YEARS* before the United States Supreme Court stepped in and granted "_plenary powers_" to the federal government for everything related to foreigners in about 1875 - 1876.
> 
> I will give you $10,000 (TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS) in cash to cite one sentence from the Constitution wherein the framers gave the United States Supreme Court to grant to any other branch of government *ANY* power, much less plenary powers.  The United States Supreme Court legislated from the bench.  And you won't have the ethical wherewithal to admit that the high Court legislated from the bench which *disrespects the Rule of Law*.  You Trumpsters preach about it, but sure as Hell don't want to live by it.  Hypocrites, every one of you!
> 
> Adding insult to injury, Congress* ILLEGALLY* passed the 14th Amendment that you probably think is valid.  If not for that Amendment, you wouldn't have all those brown babies born in the U.S. you'd like to call a racist name, but cowardly chose "_anchor babies_," and that pretext proved to be false as parents are being deported and you're being left to pay welfare for their American born children.
> 
> To give you the coup de grace, the 14th Amendment gave foreigners (regardless of any liberal immigration status the Democrats thought up for you) the government right of liberty (sic.)  While doing that they *NULLIFIED* the Bill of Rights.  This link will explain it to you:
> 
> Stolen Rights
> 
> If I get shut down, the government will raise taxes somewhere to compensate for the loss.  And you'll pay them.  You can't win.  You're on the wrong side of the argument (you're actually arguing in favor of socialism)  and you're on the wrong side of history.  That above link will help you a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So muslim illegals can come flooding in over the border and we are powerless to stop you from hiring them?
> 
> This is just ridiculous.  Does anyone here at USMB agree with you?  Or are you just trying to be outrageous?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If we are not going to physically stop employers from hiring illegals we might as well be considered powerless to stop them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There will be no loss.  Another American will just fill in that void you left when we shut your business down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not going to happen in any meaningful numbers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> You know who agrees with you?  All the illegal employers in America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And they have the ear of D.C. You aren't going to out fund them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I've been telling these stupid Republicans that it is YOU who is the problem and not illegal immigrants but Fox and Rush got these idiots worshipping you job creators.  Little do they know you are stealing from the American middle class.
> 
> The cost of illegal immigration to taxpayers is growing at an unsustainable pace
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They know.
Click to expand...


You look to Washington District of Corruption for your salvation.  IF the posterity of the founders banded together, worked and traded among themselves and IF the youth divorced themselves from drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, video games and social media in favor of education and exercise, you could solve your problems.

You come here with a link from FAIR, which was founded by and is financed by a white supremacist, your arguments may float on this board, but not in the court of public opinion on the evening MSM news.


----------



## Papageorgio

sealybobo said:


> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"



Sorry, Thommy Boi is a racist, bigot who puts on a hate radio show. The guy is just nuts.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having looked this thread over carefully, it is painfully obvious that no matter how much is said, the right seems to be stuck on stupid on this issue.  Is there any way that people can be objective here?
> 
> *NOBODY *can show me any sentence in the United States Constitution that gives Congress the *authority *to limit the liberty of foreigners.  So, when I have work to do and advertise for people to come out, I'm going to hire the best qualified person at the price I can afford to pay (usually $20 to $40 an hour for basic handyman work.)
> 
> If you want the job, you have to get your ass off the Internet, forego social media, hang up your cell phone for a few hours and look for a job, then work it.  Those of us in business and those with a home to keep running aren't going to lose what we have just because some of you think we owe you a damn job.  Employers create the job; they own the job; constitutionally speaking we can give them to whomever we damn well please.
> 
> We got into this clusterphuck of a situation because years ago the blacks demanded that they be given the jobs.  Now you want them because you're born in the United States.  I can't hire people that don't apply; can't afford to pay you if you don't work.  Passing laws just costs you extra taxes.
> 
> If you could succeed at closing me down,* NO* jobs would exist.  You see, when the wheels of commerce run, other jobs are created.  Here's your situation:
> 
> A Mexican kid comes along and takes a job at $20 an hour.  He APPLIED for the job.  You didn't find it because you're on the Internet bitching.  The Mexican guy has kids and an apartment (bills and responsibilities.)  Those of you bitching live in mommy's basement or your old bedroom of when you were 12.  You don't pay rent; on average most of you don't have an education, no job skills, no driver's license, and no work ethic.  All you have are tattoos, body piercings, a criminal record, an addiction to cigarettes and alcohol along with addictions to pot and possibly hard core drugs.
> 
> You want the right to be like that?  I fully support it.  But, if you live an irresponsible lifestyle, YOU pay for it.  Don't expect the employer to.  If you don't have your own house, YOU are fucking the rest of the taxpayers.  Property taxes are just as high, if not higher, than the income tax you FALSELY accuse the foreigners of not paying.  If you're living rent free with mommy (or if you're a parent with deadbeat kids), then YOU are the problem.  In all honesty I'd love to hire a staff of all white males.  The problem is most of them fit that previous paragraph and nobody should be forced to hire them?
> 
> Guys, I'm not losing what I have because some of you are too stupid to be able to compete against uneducated third worlders.  If you run big businesses out over who they hire, they will move to another country.  Then you get* NOTHING*... and if you're sitting on your ass playing video games, visiting sites on social media, smoking weed, worrying about your next body piercing or tattoo while living in your parents home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  If you're a parent letting your kids live at home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  Fix your culture, vote with your wallet and pocket book.  Boycott places that hire and / or cater to those you find offensive.  Quit thinking that you can build a government big enough to save your from your own stupidity.  In any event, get off the employers ass.  There is not a swinging dick on the face of the earth that is going to tell me who I can and cannot hire.  All this big government B.S. is over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Rockwell is very far out there. I doubt he is a Trump supporter. If he is, considering his disagreement with the concept of immigration law, his reasoning is probably pretty muddled.
Click to expand...


I supported Trump and voted for him.  But, I will not do so again.  He lied about gun control and he is the most anti-gun president in the history of the United States.

We all know, whether you admit it on a board or not, that most of Trump's anti-immigrant bullshit won't pass muster in the United States Supreme Court.  But, he can sit back after his tenure as president and tell you he went to bat for you.  How can his supporters be this fucking stupid is the only question I have?

Let me see, you toss out 1 million Hispanic daddies with an average of 3 American born children.  They stay, his kids go on welfare.  Which way is costing you more?

So, let's say you deport them too... you can't deport an American, but I'll play along with your fantasies.  In a few years, those kids show up with the National ID card, Socialist Surveillance Number... ooops "_Social Security Number_" and birth certificate. You can't lock them out; they're Americans!  They have no job skills, no education, no family support system, and can't even speak the English language.  What is your master plan for dealing with them.

Once here, if you think you can keep families separated, you're a fucking retard no matter what you say about me.  When the question comes up in the United States Supreme Court, I will bet you *everything I own* (down to the shirt on my back and my credit score exceeds 800 so you know I have something in my pants besides my penis)  that the high Court will allow those erroneously called _"illegals_" to come back to the U.S. 

The only group who can end the numbers of people coming here from foreign countries are those who gain control over their destiny and quit worrying about what Uncle Scam will do about it.  Whatever the feds give you, they will want something in return.  Why ask somebody to do something about your situation when YOU are the person most likely to be able to help yourself?


----------



## sealybobo

pknopp said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having looked this thread over carefully, it is painfully obvious that no matter how much is said, the right seems to be stuck on stupid on this issue.  Is there any way that people can be objective here?
> 
> *NOBODY *can show me any sentence in the United States Constitution that gives Congress the *authority *to limit the liberty of foreigners.  So, when I have work to do and advertise for people to come out, I'm going to hire the best qualified person at the price I can afford to pay (usually $20 to $40 an hour for basic handyman work.)
> 
> If you want the job, you have to get your ass off the Internet, forego social media, hang up your cell phone for a few hours and look for a job, then work it.  Those of us in business and those with a home to keep running aren't going to lose what we have just because some of you think we owe you a damn job.  Employers create the job; they own the job; constitutionally speaking we can give them to whomever we damn well please.
> 
> We got into this clusterphuck of a situation because years ago the blacks demanded that they be given the jobs.  Now you want them because you're born in the United States.  I can't hire people that don't apply; can't afford to pay you if you don't work.  Passing laws just costs you extra taxes.
> 
> If you could succeed at closing me down,* NO* jobs would exist.  You see, when the wheels of commerce run, other jobs are created.  Here's your situation:
> 
> A Mexican kid comes along and takes a job at $20 an hour.  He APPLIED for the job.  You didn't find it because you're on the Internet bitching.  The Mexican guy has kids and an apartment (bills and responsibilities.)  Those of you bitching live in mommy's basement or your old bedroom of when you were 12.  You don't pay rent; on average most of you don't have an education, no job skills, no driver's license, and no work ethic.  All you have are tattoos, body piercings, a criminal record, an addiction to cigarettes and alcohol along with addictions to pot and possibly hard core drugs.
> 
> You want the right to be like that?  I fully support it.  But, if you live an irresponsible lifestyle, YOU pay for it.  Don't expect the employer to.  If you don't have your own house, YOU are fucking the rest of the taxpayers.  Property taxes are just as high, if not higher, than the income tax you FALSELY accuse the foreigners of not paying.  If you're living rent free with mommy (or if you're a parent with deadbeat kids), then YOU are the problem.  In all honesty I'd love to hire a staff of all white males.  The problem is most of them fit that previous paragraph and nobody should be forced to hire them.
> 
> Guys, I'm not losing what I have because some of you are too stupid to be able to compete against uneducated third worlders.  If you run big businesses out over who they hire, they will move to another country.  Then you get* NOTHING*... and if you're sitting on your ass playing video games, visiting sites on social media, smoking weed, worrying about your next body piercing or tattoo while living in your parents home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  If you're a parent letting your kids live at home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  Fix your culture, vote with your wallet and pocket book.  Boycott places that hire and / or cater to those you find offensive.  Quit thinking that you can build a government big enough to save your from your own stupidity.  In any event, get off the employers ass.  There is not a swinging dick on the face of the earth that is going to tell me who I can and cannot hire.  All this big government B.S. is over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but the country does *NOT *disagree with me.  We're all adults here, son.  So, let's be honest.  If a majority of people picked the president, they chose Hitlery Clinton.  She got the most votes.  So, you're wrong on that count.
> 
> On the second count, the United States Supreme Court has opined that *NO ONE *is obligated to obey an unconstitutional act.  That is THEIR logic, not mine.
> 
> Now then, the only authority the federal government has over foreigners is "_Congress shall have the power ...To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization_"  (Article 1  Section 8 of the Constitution) which they did only months after the ratification of the United States Constitution.  In that law, it provided that:
> 
> "_Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a *free white person*, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof_..."
> 
> *United States Congress, “An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization” (March 26, 1790)*
> 
> Despite this fact, foreigners came here to work and do business for *EIGHTY FIVE YEARS* before the United States Supreme Court stepped in and granted "_plenary powers_" to the federal government for everything related to foreigners in about 1875 - 1876.
> 
> I will give you $10,000 (TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS) in cash to cite one sentence from the Constitution wherein the framers gave the United States Supreme Court to grant to any other branch of government *ANY* power, much less plenary powers.  The United States Supreme Court legislated from the bench.  And you won't have the ethical wherewithal to admit that the high Court legislated from the bench which *disrespects the Rule of Law*.  You Trumpsters preach about it, but sure as Hell don't want to live by it.  Hypocrites, every one of you!
> 
> Adding insult to injury, Congress* ILLEGALLY* passed the 14th Amendment that you probably think is valid.  If not for that Amendment, you wouldn't have all those brown babies born in the U.S. you'd like to call a racist name, but cowardly chose "_anchor babies_," and that pretext proved to be false as parents are being deported and you're being left to pay welfare for their American born children.
> 
> To give you the coup de grace, the 14th Amendment gave foreigners (regardless of any liberal immigration status the Democrats thought up for you) the government right of liberty (sic.)  While doing that they *NULLIFIED* the Bill of Rights.  This link will explain it to you:
> 
> Stolen Rights
> 
> If I get shut down, the government will raise taxes somewhere to compensate for the loss.  And you'll pay them.  You can't win.  You're on the wrong side of the argument (you're actually arguing in favor of socialism)  and you're on the wrong side of history.  That above link will help you a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, I'm curious (though I do not know why) how was the 14th passed illegally?
Click to expand...

I don't know but it can easily be amended again.

Let me give you an example.  In Missouri they are an open carry state.  In other words, you can carry your gun around with you as long as it's in plane sight.  

Man charged with making terrorist threat for walking into Missouri Walmart with rifle, body armor

But not anymore.  Why?  Because people are taking their guns into walmart and shooting people.  So, the laws have to change.  

Your slick arguments mean nothing to me.  Common sense matters to me most.  

Does anyone here on USMB agree with your position that illegal immigrants have rights?  I mean I know they have SOME rights but even those we can change if they are using those RIGHTS to fuck with our system.


----------



## sealybobo

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having looked this thread over carefully, it is painfully obvious that no matter how much is said, the right seems to be stuck on stupid on this issue.  Is there any way that people can be objective here?
> 
> *NOBODY *can show me any sentence in the United States Constitution that gives Congress the *authority *to limit the liberty of foreigners.  So, when I have work to do and advertise for people to come out, I'm going to hire the best qualified person at the price I can afford to pay (usually $20 to $40 an hour for basic handyman work.)
> 
> If you want the job, you have to get your ass off the Internet, forego social media, hang up your cell phone for a few hours and look for a job, then work it.  Those of us in business and those with a home to keep running aren't going to lose what we have just because some of you think we owe you a damn job.  Employers create the job; they own the job; constitutionally speaking we can give them to whomever we damn well please.
> 
> We got into this clusterphuck of a situation because years ago the blacks demanded that they be given the jobs.  Now you want them because you're born in the United States.  I can't hire people that don't apply; can't afford to pay you if you don't work.  Passing laws just costs you extra taxes.
> 
> If you could succeed at closing me down,* NO* jobs would exist.  You see, when the wheels of commerce run, other jobs are created.  Here's your situation:
> 
> A Mexican kid comes along and takes a job at $20 an hour.  He APPLIED for the job.  You didn't find it because you're on the Internet bitching.  The Mexican guy has kids and an apartment (bills and responsibilities.)  Those of you bitching live in mommy's basement or your old bedroom of when you were 12.  You don't pay rent; on average most of you don't have an education, no job skills, no driver's license, and no work ethic.  All you have are tattoos, body piercings, a criminal record, an addiction to cigarettes and alcohol along with addictions to pot and possibly hard core drugs.
> 
> You want the right to be like that?  I fully support it.  But, if you live an irresponsible lifestyle, YOU pay for it.  Don't expect the employer to.  If you don't have your own house, YOU are fucking the rest of the taxpayers.  Property taxes are just as high, if not higher, than the income tax you FALSELY accuse the foreigners of not paying.  If you're living rent free with mommy (or if you're a parent with deadbeat kids), then YOU are the problem.  In all honesty I'd love to hire a staff of all white males.  The problem is most of them fit that previous paragraph and nobody should be forced to hire them.
> 
> Guys, I'm not losing what I have because some of you are too stupid to be able to compete against uneducated third worlders.  If you run big businesses out over who they hire, they will move to another country.  Then you get* NOTHING*... and if you're sitting on your ass playing video games, visiting sites on social media, smoking weed, worrying about your next body piercing or tattoo while living in your parents home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  If you're a parent letting your kids live at home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  Fix your culture, vote with your wallet and pocket book.  Boycott places that hire and / or cater to those you find offensive.  Quit thinking that you can build a government big enough to save your from your own stupidity.  In any event, get off the employers ass.  There is not a swinging dick on the face of the earth that is going to tell me who I can and cannot hire.  All this big government B.S. is over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Rockwell is very far out there. I doubt he is a Trump supporter. If he is, considering his disagreement with the concept of immigration law, his reasoning is probably pretty muddled.
Click to expand...


He is an illegal employer who's getting rich off immigrants.  He is absolutely a Republican.

Based on these numbers he should vote GOP

"Between 1999 and 2003, work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which subsequently was merged into the Homeland Security Department. The number of employers prosecuted for unlawfully employing immigrants dropped from 182 in 1999 to four in 2003, and fines collected declined from $3.6 million to $212,000, according to federal statistics.

"In 1999, the United States initiated fines against 417 companies. In 2004, it issued fine notices to three."


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having looked this thread over carefully, it is painfully obvious that no matter how much is said, the right seems to be stuck on stupid on this issue.  Is there any way that people can be objective here?
> 
> *NOBODY *can show me any sentence in the United States Constitution that gives Congress the *authority *to limit the liberty of foreigners.  So, when I have work to do and advertise for people to come out, I'm going to hire the best qualified person at the price I can afford to pay (usually $20 to $40 an hour for basic handyman work.)
> 
> If you want the job, you have to get your ass off the Internet, forego social media, hang up your cell phone for a few hours and look for a job, then work it.  Those of us in business and those with a home to keep running aren't going to lose what we have just because some of you think we owe you a damn job.  Employers create the job; they own the job; constitutionally speaking we can give them to whomever we damn well please.
> 
> We got into this clusterphuck of a situation because years ago the blacks demanded that they be given the jobs.  Now you want them because you're born in the United States.  I can't hire people that don't apply; can't afford to pay you if you don't work.  Passing laws just costs you extra taxes.
> 
> If you could succeed at closing me down,* NO* jobs would exist.  You see, when the wheels of commerce run, other jobs are created.  Here's your situation:
> 
> A Mexican kid comes along and takes a job at $20 an hour.  He APPLIED for the job.  You didn't find it because you're on the Internet bitching.  The Mexican guy has kids and an apartment (bills and responsibilities.)  Those of you bitching live in mommy's basement or your old bedroom of when you were 12.  You don't pay rent; on average most of you don't have an education, no job skills, no driver's license, and no work ethic.  All you have are tattoos, body piercings, a criminal record, an addiction to cigarettes and alcohol along with addictions to pot and possibly hard core drugs.
> 
> You want the right to be like that?  I fully support it.  But, if you live an irresponsible lifestyle, YOU pay for it.  Don't expect the employer to.  If you don't have your own house, YOU are fucking the rest of the taxpayers.  Property taxes are just as high, if not higher, than the income tax you FALSELY accuse the foreigners of not paying.  If you're living rent free with mommy (or if you're a parent with deadbeat kids), then YOU are the problem.  In all honesty I'd love to hire a staff of all white males.  The problem is most of them fit that previous paragraph and nobody should be forced to hire them.
> 
> Guys, I'm not losing what I have because some of you are too stupid to be able to compete against uneducated third worlders.  If you run big businesses out over who they hire, they will move to another country.  Then you get* NOTHING*... and if you're sitting on your ass playing video games, visiting sites on social media, smoking weed, worrying about your next body piercing or tattoo while living in your parents home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  If you're a parent letting your kids live at home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  Fix your culture, vote with your wallet and pocket book.  Boycott places that hire and / or cater to those you find offensive.  Quit thinking that you can build a government big enough to save your from your own stupidity.  In any event, get off the employers ass.  There is not a swinging dick on the face of the earth that is going to tell me who I can and cannot hire.  All this big government B.S. is over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but the country does *NOT *disagree with me.  We're all adults here, son.  So, let's be honest.  If a majority of people picked the president, they chose Hitlery Clinton.  She got the most votes.  So, you're wrong on that count.
> 
> On the second count, the United States Supreme Court has opined that *NO ONE *is obligated to obey an unconstitutional act.  That is THEIR logic, not mine.
> 
> Now then, the only authority the federal government has over foreigners is "_Congress shall have the power ...To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization_"  (Article 1  Section 8 of the Constitution) which they did only months after the ratification of the United States Constitution.  In that law, it provided that:
> 
> "_Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a *free white person*, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof_..."
> 
> *United States Congress, “An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization” (March 26, 1790)*
> 
> Despite this fact, foreigners came here to work and do business for *EIGHTY FIVE YEARS* before the United States Supreme Court stepped in and granted "_plenary powers_" to the federal government for everything related to foreigners in about 1875 - 1876.
> 
> I will give you $10,000 (TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS) in cash to cite one sentence from the Constitution wherein the framers gave the United States Supreme Court to grant to any other branch of government *ANY* power, much less plenary powers.  The United States Supreme Court legislated from the bench.  And you won't have the ethical wherewithal to admit that the high Court legislated from the bench which *disrespects the Rule of Law*.  You Trumpsters preach about it, but sure as Hell don't want to live by it.  Hypocrites, every one of you!
> 
> Adding insult to injury, Congress* ILLEGALLY* passed the 14th Amendment that you probably think is valid.  If not for that Amendment, you wouldn't have all those brown babies born in the U.S. you'd like to call a racist name, but cowardly chose "_anchor babies_," and that pretext proved to be false as parents are being deported and you're being left to pay welfare for their American born children.
> 
> To give you the coup de grace, the 14th Amendment gave foreigners (regardless of any liberal immigration status the Democrats thought up for you) the government right of liberty (sic.)  While doing that they *NULLIFIED* the Bill of Rights.  This link will explain it to you:
> 
> Stolen Rights
> 
> If I get shut down, the government will raise taxes somewhere to compensate for the loss.  And you'll pay them.  You can't win.  You're on the wrong side of the argument (you're actually arguing in favor of socialism)  and you're on the wrong side of history.  That above link will help you a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So muslim illegals can come flooding in over the border and we are powerless to stop you from hiring them?
> 
> This is just ridiculous.  Does anyone here at USMB agree with you?  Or are you just trying to be outrageous?
> 
> There will be no loss.  Another American will just fill in that void you left when we shut your business down.
> 
> Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> You know who agrees with you?  All the illegal employers in America.
> 
> And I've been telling these stupid Republicans that it is YOU who is the problem and not illegal immigrants but Fox and Rush got these idiots worshipping you job creators.  Little do they know you are stealing from the American middle class.
> 
> The cost of illegal immigration to taxpayers is growing at an unsustainable pace
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> America is a REPUBLIC, not a democracy.  If everybody here wants to disagree, that is their Right as an American.  You dodged replying to the link I left.  Wonder why.
> 
> No Americans are filling the void left by American businesses.  Foreigners are buying them up.  You sit on your ass and pray for my demise, thinking I owe you a job because your sorry ass was born in the USA.
> 
> You have to go to school; you have to learn how to do a job; you have to develop a work ethic.  Then you have to APPLY for the job.  People like you don't.  You're here all day moaning and groaning, crying and complaining when you should be acquiring a skill set.  The job ins't going to come and find you son.
> 
> If I get put out of business, there will be Hispanics and Jamaicans that will be doing this stuff the next day.  I've already told your dumb ass I'd hire a whole staff of white American males, but finding white people who aren't on drugs, have their head into video games and social media is like trying to find gold nuggets in a septic tank.
> 
> Clean up your culture and your problems will go away on their own.  The government is powerless to save you from your own stupidity.
Click to expand...


Ha!  I went to school.  The illegals you hire didn't.  

You sit on your ass thinking you can hire people who aren't legally allowed to work in this country.  You sir are a traitor.

Yes, your competition will quickly and easily fill the void you leave.  No one needs you.

What you are saying is strangely similar to the shit you Republicans were telling us when Bush was in office.  It wasn't the economy that was fucked up, it was US.  WE need to go back to school or start our own business if we don't like what we are being paid.

Then Obama got into office and then you flip flopping Republicans started saying it was the government's fault.  It was Obama's fault.  It was now ok to blame the government because it wasn't your party that was running it.

Now you are back to telling American workers they suck.  Welcome back.  I missed you guys.  This is the real you.  LOL.

P.S.  I make 6 figures and have no bills.  Maybe I spend $2000 a month total.  What do I make after taxes something like $75k?  So I save about $50K a year.  I'm not one of the loser blue collar Americans you are referring to.  Correll needs to hear what you are saying.  Blue collar wages will never go up because you corporations own/control the system.  Trump cries about illegals and you hire them up.  Asshole.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having looked this thread over carefully, it is painfully obvious that no matter how much is said, the right seems to be stuck on stupid on this issue.  Is there any way that people can be objective here?
> 
> *NOBODY *can show me any sentence in the United States Constitution that gives Congress the *authority *to limit the liberty of foreigners.  So, when I have work to do and advertise for people to come out, I'm going to hire the best qualified person at the price I can afford to pay (usually $20 to $40 an hour for basic handyman work.)
> 
> If you want the job, you have to get your ass off the Internet, forego social media, hang up your cell phone for a few hours and look for a job, then work it.  Those of us in business and those with a home to keep running aren't going to lose what we have just because some of you think we owe you a damn job.  Employers create the job; they own the job; constitutionally speaking we can give them to whomever we damn well please.
> 
> We got into this clusterphuck of a situation because years ago the blacks demanded that they be given the jobs.  Now you want them because you're born in the United States.  I can't hire people that don't apply; can't afford to pay you if you don't work.  Passing laws just costs you extra taxes.
> 
> If you could succeed at closing me down,* NO* jobs would exist.  You see, when the wheels of commerce run, other jobs are created.  Here's your situation:
> 
> A Mexican kid comes along and takes a job at $20 an hour.  He APPLIED for the job.  You didn't find it because you're on the Internet bitching.  The Mexican guy has kids and an apartment (bills and responsibilities.)  Those of you bitching live in mommy's basement or your old bedroom of when you were 12.  You don't pay rent; on average most of you don't have an education, no job skills, no driver's license, and no work ethic.  All you have are tattoos, body piercings, a criminal record, an addiction to cigarettes and alcohol along with addictions to pot and possibly hard core drugs.
> 
> You want the right to be like that?  I fully support it.  But, if you live an irresponsible lifestyle, YOU pay for it.  Don't expect the employer to.  If you don't have your own house, YOU are fucking the rest of the taxpayers.  Property taxes are just as high, if not higher, than the income tax you FALSELY accuse the foreigners of not paying.  If you're living rent free with mommy (or if you're a parent with deadbeat kids), then YOU are the problem.  In all honesty I'd love to hire a staff of all white males.  The problem is most of them fit that previous paragraph and nobody should be forced to hire them?
> 
> Guys, I'm not losing what I have because some of you are too stupid to be able to compete against uneducated third worlders.  If you run big businesses out over who they hire, they will move to another country.  Then you get* NOTHING*... and if you're sitting on your ass playing video games, visiting sites on social media, smoking weed, worrying about your next body piercing or tattoo while living in your parents home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  If you're a parent letting your kids live at home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  Fix your culture, vote with your wallet and pocket book.  Boycott places that hire and / or cater to those you find offensive.  Quit thinking that you can build a government big enough to save your from your own stupidity.  In any event, get off the employers ass.  There is not a swinging dick on the face of the earth that is going to tell me who I can and cannot hire.  All this big government B.S. is over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Rockwell is very far out there. I doubt he is a Trump supporter. If he is, considering his disagreement with the concept of immigration law, his reasoning is probably pretty muddled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I supported Trump and voted for him.  But, I will not do so again.  He lied about gun control and he is the most anti-gun president in the history of the United States.
> 
> We all know, whether you admit it on a board or not, that most of Trump's anti-immigrant bullshit won't pass muster in the United States Supreme Court.  But, he can sit back after his tenure as president and tell you he went to bat for you.  How can his supporters be this fucking stupid is the only question I have?
> 
> Let me see, you toss out 1 million Hispanic daddies with an average of 3 American born children.  They stay, his kids go on welfare.  Which way is costing you more?
> 
> So, let's say you deport them too... you can't deport an American, but I'll play along with your fantasies.  In a few years, those kids show up with the National ID card, Socialist Surveillance Number... ooops "_Social Security Number_" and birth certificate. You can't lock them out; they're Americans!  They have no job skills, no education, no family support system, and can't even speak the English language.  What is your master plan for dealing with them.
> 
> Once here, if you think you can keep families separated, you're a fucking retard no matter what you say about me.  When the question comes up in the United States Supreme Court, I will bet you *everything I own* (down to the shirt on my back and my credit score exceeds 800 so you know I have something in my pants besides my penis)  that the high Court will allow those erroneously called _"illegals_" to come back to the U.S.
> 
> The only group who can end the numbers of people coming here from foreign countries are those who gain control over their destiny and quit worrying about what Uncle Scam will do about it.  Whatever the feds give you, they will want something in return.  Why ask somebody to do something about your situation when YOU are the person most likely to be able to help yourself?
Click to expand...


Yes, the crony court will let the illegals in.  It will make Correll think they are liberal but the reality is the corporations want these illegals flooding the job market.  But Correll will blame the "liberal" media and "liberal" supreme court.

This is how the rich are fucking America over and getting away with it.  They caused the Great Recession in 2008 and convinced guys like Correll that it was liberals that done it.  Well, now he knows he's being duped.  Maybe now he will realize he signed up for Trump University when he voted for Trump.


----------



## sealybobo

Papageorgio said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, Thommy Boi is a racist, bigot who puts on a hate radio show. The guy is just nuts.
Click to expand...

Show me where/when he's been a racist.


----------



## Correll

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having looked this thread over carefully, it is painfully obvious that no matter how much is said, the right seems to be stuck on stupid on this issue.  Is there any way that people can be objective here?
> 
> *NOBODY *can show me any sentence in the United States Constitution that gives Congress the *authority *to limit the liberty of foreigners.  So, when I have work to do and advertise for people to come out, I'm going to hire the best qualified person at the price I can afford to pay (usually $20 to $40 an hour for basic handyman work.)
> 
> If you want the job, you have to get your ass off the Internet, forego social media, hang up your cell phone for a few hours and look for a job, then work it.  Those of us in business and those with a home to keep running aren't going to lose what we have just because some of you think we owe you a damn job.  Employers create the job; they own the job; constitutionally speaking we can give them to whomever we damn well please.
> 
> We got into this clusterphuck of a situation because years ago the blacks demanded that they be given the jobs.  Now you want them because you're born in the United States.  I can't hire people that don't apply; can't afford to pay you if you don't work.  Passing laws just costs you extra taxes.
> 
> If you could succeed at closing me down,* NO* jobs would exist.  You see, when the wheels of commerce run, other jobs are created.  Here's your situation:
> 
> A Mexican kid comes along and takes a job at $20 an hour.  He APPLIED for the job.  You didn't find it because you're on the Internet bitching.  The Mexican guy has kids and an apartment (bills and responsibilities.)  Those of you bitching live in mommy's basement or your old bedroom of when you were 12.  You don't pay rent; on average most of you don't have an education, no job skills, no driver's license, and no work ethic.  All you have are tattoos, body piercings, a criminal record, an addiction to cigarettes and alcohol along with addictions to pot and possibly hard core drugs.
> 
> You want the right to be like that?  I fully support it.  But, if you live an irresponsible lifestyle, YOU pay for it.  Don't expect the employer to.  If you don't have your own house, YOU are fucking the rest of the taxpayers.  Property taxes are just as high, if not higher, than the income tax you FALSELY accuse the foreigners of not paying.  If you're living rent free with mommy (or if you're a parent with deadbeat kids), then YOU are the problem.  In all honesty I'd love to hire a staff of all white males.  The problem is most of them fit that previous paragraph and nobody should be forced to hire them.
> 
> Guys, I'm not losing what I have because some of you are too stupid to be able to compete against uneducated third worlders.  If you run big businesses out over who they hire, they will move to another country.  Then you get* NOTHING*... and if you're sitting on your ass playing video games, visiting sites on social media, smoking weed, worrying about your next body piercing or tattoo while living in your parents home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  If you're a parent letting your kids live at home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  Fix your culture, vote with your wallet and pocket book.  Boycott places that hire and / or cater to those you find offensive.  Quit thinking that you can build a government big enough to save your from your own stupidity.  In any event, get off the employers ass.  There is not a swinging dick on the face of the earth that is going to tell me who I can and cannot hire.  All this big government B.S. is over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Rockwell is very far out there. I doubt he is a Trump supporter. If he is, considering his disagreement with the concept of immigration law, his reasoning is probably pretty muddled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He is an illegal employer who's getting rich off immigrants.  He is absolutely a Republican.
> 
> Based on these numbers he should vote GOP
> 
> "Between 1999 and 2003, work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which subsequently was merged into the Homeland Security Department. The number of employers prosecuted for unlawfully employing immigrants dropped from 182 in 1999 to four in 2003, and fines collected declined from $3.6 million to $212,000, according to federal statistics.
> 
> "In 1999, the United States initiated fines against 417 companies. In 2004, it issued fine notices to three."
Click to expand...



He is not very clear when it comes to numbers, and he is far enough to the fringe that he should not be voting at all.


He has deep ideological disagreements with the very idea of immigration policy.


----------



## Correll

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having looked this thread over carefully, it is painfully obvious that no matter how much is said, the right seems to be stuck on stupid on this issue.  Is there any way that people can be objective here?
> 
> *NOBODY *can show me any sentence in the United States Constitution that gives Congress the *authority *to limit the liberty of foreigners.  So, when I have work to do and advertise for people to come out, I'm going to hire the best qualified person at the price I can afford to pay (usually $20 to $40 an hour for basic handyman work.)
> 
> If you want the job, you have to get your ass off the Internet, forego social media, hang up your cell phone for a few hours and look for a job, then work it.  Those of us in business and those with a home to keep running aren't going to lose what we have just because some of you think we owe you a damn job.  Employers create the job; they own the job; constitutionally speaking we can give them to whomever we damn well please.
> 
> We got into this clusterphuck of a situation because years ago the blacks demanded that they be given the jobs.  Now you want them because you're born in the United States.  I can't hire people that don't apply; can't afford to pay you if you don't work.  Passing laws just costs you extra taxes.
> 
> If you could succeed at closing me down,* NO* jobs would exist.  You see, when the wheels of commerce run, other jobs are created.  Here's your situation:
> 
> A Mexican kid comes along and takes a job at $20 an hour.  He APPLIED for the job.  You didn't find it because you're on the Internet bitching.  The Mexican guy has kids and an apartment (bills and responsibilities.)  Those of you bitching live in mommy's basement or your old bedroom of when you were 12.  You don't pay rent; on average most of you don't have an education, no job skills, no driver's license, and no work ethic.  All you have are tattoos, body piercings, a criminal record, an addiction to cigarettes and alcohol along with addictions to pot and possibly hard core drugs.
> 
> You want the right to be like that?  I fully support it.  But, if you live an irresponsible lifestyle, YOU pay for it.  Don't expect the employer to.  If you don't have your own house, YOU are fucking the rest of the taxpayers.  Property taxes are just as high, if not higher, than the income tax you FALSELY accuse the foreigners of not paying.  If you're living rent free with mommy (or if you're a parent with deadbeat kids), then YOU are the problem.  In all honesty I'd love to hire a staff of all white males.  The problem is most of them fit that previous paragraph and nobody should be forced to hire them?
> 
> Guys, I'm not losing what I have because some of you are too stupid to be able to compete against uneducated third worlders.  If you run big businesses out over who they hire, they will move to another country.  Then you get* NOTHING*... and if you're sitting on your ass playing video games, visiting sites on social media, smoking weed, worrying about your next body piercing or tattoo while living in your parents home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  If you're a parent letting your kids live at home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  Fix your culture, vote with your wallet and pocket book.  Boycott places that hire and / or cater to those you find offensive.  Quit thinking that you can build a government big enough to save your from your own stupidity.  In any event, get off the employers ass.  There is not a swinging dick on the face of the earth that is going to tell me who I can and cannot hire.  All this big government B.S. is over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Rockwell is very far out there. I doubt he is a Trump supporter. If he is, considering his disagreement with the concept of immigration law, his reasoning is probably pretty muddled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I supported Trump and voted for him.  But, I will not do so again.  He lied about gun control and he is the most anti-gun president in the history of the United States.
> 
> We all know, whether you admit it on a board or not, that most of Trump's anti-immigrant bullshit won't pass muster in the United States Supreme Court.  But, he can sit back after his tenure as president and tell you he went to bat for you.  How can his supporters be this fucking stupid is the only question I have?
> 
> Let me see, you toss out 1 million Hispanic daddies with an average of 3 American born children.  They stay, his kids go on welfare.  Which way is costing you more?
> 
> So, let's say you deport them too... you can't deport an American, but I'll play along with your fantasies.  In a few years, those kids show up with the National ID card, Socialist Surveillance Number... ooops "_Social Security Number_" and birth certificate. You can't lock them out; they're Americans!  They have no job skills, no education, no family support system, and can't even speak the English language.  What is your master plan for dealing with them.
> 
> Once here, if you think you can keep families separated, you're a fucking retard no matter what you say about me.  When the question comes up in the United States Supreme Court, I will bet you *everything I own* (down to the shirt on my back and my credit score exceeds 800 so you know I have something in my pants besides my penis)  that the high Court will allow those erroneously called _"illegals_" to come back to the U.S.
> 
> The only group who can end the numbers of people coming here from foreign countries are those who gain control over their destiny and quit worrying about what Uncle Scam will do about it.  Whatever the feds give you, they will want something in return.  Why ask somebody to do something about your situation when YOU are the person most likely to be able to help yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, the crony court will let the illegals in.  It will make Correll think they are liberal but the reality is the corporations want these illegals flooding the job market.  But Correll will blame the "liberal" media and "liberal" supreme court.
> 
> This is how the rich are fucking America over and getting away with it.  They caused the Great Recession in 2008 and convinced guys like Correll that it was liberals that done it.  Well, now he knows he's being duped.  Maybe now he will realize he signed up for Trump University when he voted for Trump.
Click to expand...



I've repeatedly agreed that the GOP share quite a bit of the responsibility for the immigration problems in this country.


That being said, Trump was the candidate most credible in offering a change to the status quo. 


Who should we have supported instead of him, that would have given US anything better?


----------



## sealybobo

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having looked this thread over carefully, it is painfully obvious that no matter how much is said, the right seems to be stuck on stupid on this issue.  Is there any way that people can be objective here?
> 
> *NOBODY *can show me any sentence in the United States Constitution that gives Congress the *authority *to limit the liberty of foreigners.  So, when I have work to do and advertise for people to come out, I'm going to hire the best qualified person at the price I can afford to pay (usually $20 to $40 an hour for basic handyman work.)
> 
> If you want the job, you have to get your ass off the Internet, forego social media, hang up your cell phone for a few hours and look for a job, then work it.  Those of us in business and those with a home to keep running aren't going to lose what we have just because some of you think we owe you a damn job.  Employers create the job; they own the job; constitutionally speaking we can give them to whomever we damn well please.
> 
> We got into this clusterphuck of a situation because years ago the blacks demanded that they be given the jobs.  Now you want them because you're born in the United States.  I can't hire people that don't apply; can't afford to pay you if you don't work.  Passing laws just costs you extra taxes.
> 
> If you could succeed at closing me down,* NO* jobs would exist.  You see, when the wheels of commerce run, other jobs are created.  Here's your situation:
> 
> A Mexican kid comes along and takes a job at $20 an hour.  He APPLIED for the job.  You didn't find it because you're on the Internet bitching.  The Mexican guy has kids and an apartment (bills and responsibilities.)  Those of you bitching live in mommy's basement or your old bedroom of when you were 12.  You don't pay rent; on average most of you don't have an education, no job skills, no driver's license, and no work ethic.  All you have are tattoos, body piercings, a criminal record, an addiction to cigarettes and alcohol along with addictions to pot and possibly hard core drugs.
> 
> You want the right to be like that?  I fully support it.  But, if you live an irresponsible lifestyle, YOU pay for it.  Don't expect the employer to.  If you don't have your own house, YOU are fucking the rest of the taxpayers.  Property taxes are just as high, if not higher, than the income tax you FALSELY accuse the foreigners of not paying.  If you're living rent free with mommy (or if you're a parent with deadbeat kids), then YOU are the problem.  In all honesty I'd love to hire a staff of all white males.  The problem is most of them fit that previous paragraph and nobody should be forced to hire them?
> 
> Guys, I'm not losing what I have because some of you are too stupid to be able to compete against uneducated third worlders.  If you run big businesses out over who they hire, they will move to another country.  Then you get* NOTHING*... and if you're sitting on your ass playing video games, visiting sites on social media, smoking weed, worrying about your next body piercing or tattoo while living in your parents home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  If you're a parent letting your kids live at home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  Fix your culture, vote with your wallet and pocket book.  Boycott places that hire and / or cater to those you find offensive.  Quit thinking that you can build a government big enough to save your from your own stupidity.  In any event, get off the employers ass.  There is not a swinging dick on the face of the earth that is going to tell me who I can and cannot hire.  All this big government B.S. is over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Rockwell is very far out there. I doubt he is a Trump supporter. If he is, considering his disagreement with the concept of immigration law, his reasoning is probably pretty muddled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I supported Trump and voted for him.  But, I will not do so again.  He lied about gun control and he is the most anti-gun president in the history of the United States.
> 
> We all know, whether you admit it on a board or not, that most of Trump's anti-immigrant bullshit won't pass muster in the United States Supreme Court.  But, he can sit back after his tenure as president and tell you he went to bat for you.  How can his supporters be this fucking stupid is the only question I have?
> 
> Let me see, you toss out 1 million Hispanic daddies with an average of 3 American born children.  They stay, his kids go on welfare.  Which way is costing you more?
> 
> So, let's say you deport them too... you can't deport an American, but I'll play along with your fantasies.  In a few years, those kids show up with the National ID card, Socialist Surveillance Number... ooops "_Social Security Number_" and birth certificate. You can't lock them out; they're Americans!  They have no job skills, no education, no family support system, and can't even speak the English language.  What is your master plan for dealing with them.
> 
> Once here, if you think you can keep families separated, you're a fucking retard no matter what you say about me.  When the question comes up in the United States Supreme Court, I will bet you *everything I own* (down to the shirt on my back and my credit score exceeds 800 so you know I have something in my pants besides my penis)  that the high Court will allow those erroneously called _"illegals_" to come back to the U.S.
> 
> The only group who can end the numbers of people coming here from foreign countries are those who gain control over their destiny and quit worrying about what Uncle Scam will do about it.  Whatever the feds give you, they will want something in return.  Why ask somebody to do something about your situation when YOU are the person most likely to be able to help yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, the crony court will let the illegals in.  It will make Correll think they are liberal but the reality is the corporations want these illegals flooding the job market.  But Correll will blame the "liberal" media and "liberal" supreme court.
> 
> This is how the rich are fucking America over and getting away with it.  They caused the Great Recession in 2008 and convinced guys like Correll that it was liberals that done it.  Well, now he knows he's being duped.  Maybe now he will realize he signed up for Trump University when he voted for Trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I've repeatedly agreed that the GOP share quite a bit of the responsibility for the immigration problems in this country.
> 
> 
> That being said, Trump was the candidate most credible in offering a change to the status quo.
> 
> 
> Who should we have supported instead of him, that would have given US anything better?
Click to expand...


Based on the facts, not Trump's rhetoric, you should have voted for Hillary

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...y-trump-administration-charges-few-companies/

The Trump administration has eagerly pursued arrests of undocumented immigrants over the last two years, but the administration appears to have been far less aggressive in going after corporations involved in those cases.

Prosecuting corporations, as opposed to individual workers or managers, for immigration-related offenses was also relatively rare during the Obama administration, but it has slowed further under the Trump administration, according to a database maintained by Duke University and the University of Virginia and data reviewed by The Washington Post.

"Between 1999 and 2003, work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which subsequently was merged into the Homeland Security Department. The number of employers prosecuted for unlawfully employing immigrants dropped from 182 in 1999 to four in 2003, and fines collected declined from $3.6 million to $212,000, according to federal statistics.

"In 1999, the United States initiated fines against 417 companies. In 2004, it issued fine notices to three."


----------



## pknopp

sealybobo said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having looked this thread over carefully, it is painfully obvious that no matter how much is said, the right seems to be stuck on stupid on this issue.  Is there any way that people can be objective here?
> 
> *NOBODY *can show me any sentence in the United States Constitution that gives Congress the *authority *to limit the liberty of foreigners.  So, when I have work to do and advertise for people to come out, I'm going to hire the best qualified person at the price I can afford to pay (usually $20 to $40 an hour for basic handyman work.)
> 
> If you want the job, you have to get your ass off the Internet, forego social media, hang up your cell phone for a few hours and look for a job, then work it.  Those of us in business and those with a home to keep running aren't going to lose what we have just because some of you think we owe you a damn job.  Employers create the job; they own the job; constitutionally speaking we can give them to whomever we damn well please.
> 
> We got into this clusterphuck of a situation because years ago the blacks demanded that they be given the jobs.  Now you want them because you're born in the United States.  I can't hire people that don't apply; can't afford to pay you if you don't work.  Passing laws just costs you extra taxes.
> 
> If you could succeed at closing me down,* NO* jobs would exist.  You see, when the wheels of commerce run, other jobs are created.  Here's your situation:
> 
> A Mexican kid comes along and takes a job at $20 an hour.  He APPLIED for the job.  You didn't find it because you're on the Internet bitching.  The Mexican guy has kids and an apartment (bills and responsibilities.)  Those of you bitching live in mommy's basement or your old bedroom of when you were 12.  You don't pay rent; on average most of you don't have an education, no job skills, no driver's license, and no work ethic.  All you have are tattoos, body piercings, a criminal record, an addiction to cigarettes and alcohol along with addictions to pot and possibly hard core drugs.
> 
> You want the right to be like that?  I fully support it.  But, if you live an irresponsible lifestyle, YOU pay for it.  Don't expect the employer to.  If you don't have your own house, YOU are fucking the rest of the taxpayers.  Property taxes are just as high, if not higher, than the income tax you FALSELY accuse the foreigners of not paying.  If you're living rent free with mommy (or if you're a parent with deadbeat kids), then YOU are the problem.  In all honesty I'd love to hire a staff of all white males.  The problem is most of them fit that previous paragraph and nobody should be forced to hire them.
> 
> Guys, I'm not losing what I have because some of you are too stupid to be able to compete against uneducated third worlders.  If you run big businesses out over who they hire, they will move to another country.  Then you get* NOTHING*... and if you're sitting on your ass playing video games, visiting sites on social media, smoking weed, worrying about your next body piercing or tattoo while living in your parents home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  If you're a parent letting your kids live at home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  Fix your culture, vote with your wallet and pocket book.  Boycott places that hire and / or cater to those you find offensive.  Quit thinking that you can build a government big enough to save your from your own stupidity.  In any event, get off the employers ass.  There is not a swinging dick on the face of the earth that is going to tell me who I can and cannot hire.  All this big government B.S. is over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but the country does *NOT *disagree with me.  We're all adults here, son.  So, let's be honest.  If a majority of people picked the president, they chose Hitlery Clinton.  She got the most votes.  So, you're wrong on that count.
> 
> On the second count, the United States Supreme Court has opined that *NO ONE *is obligated to obey an unconstitutional act.  That is THEIR logic, not mine.
> 
> Now then, the only authority the federal government has over foreigners is "_Congress shall have the power ...To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization_"  (Article 1  Section 8 of the Constitution) which they did only months after the ratification of the United States Constitution.  In that law, it provided that:
> 
> "_Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a *free white person*, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof_..."
> 
> *United States Congress, “An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization” (March 26, 1790)*
> 
> Despite this fact, foreigners came here to work and do business for *EIGHTY FIVE YEARS* before the United States Supreme Court stepped in and granted "_plenary powers_" to the federal government for everything related to foreigners in about 1875 - 1876.
> 
> I will give you $10,000 (TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS) in cash to cite one sentence from the Constitution wherein the framers gave the United States Supreme Court to grant to any other branch of government *ANY* power, much less plenary powers.  The United States Supreme Court legislated from the bench.  And you won't have the ethical wherewithal to admit that the high Court legislated from the bench which *disrespects the Rule of Law*.  You Trumpsters preach about it, but sure as Hell don't want to live by it.  Hypocrites, every one of you!
> 
> Adding insult to injury, Congress* ILLEGALLY* passed the 14th Amendment that you probably think is valid.  If not for that Amendment, you wouldn't have all those brown babies born in the U.S. you'd like to call a racist name, but cowardly chose "_anchor babies_," and that pretext proved to be false as parents are being deported and you're being left to pay welfare for their American born children.
> 
> To give you the coup de grace, the 14th Amendment gave foreigners (regardless of any liberal immigration status the Democrats thought up for you) the government right of liberty (sic.)  While doing that they *NULLIFIED* the Bill of Rights.  This link will explain it to you:
> 
> Stolen Rights
> 
> If I get shut down, the government will raise taxes somewhere to compensate for the loss.  And you'll pay them.  You can't win.  You're on the wrong side of the argument (you're actually arguing in favor of socialism)  and you're on the wrong side of history.  That above link will help you a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, I'm curious (though I do not know why) how was the 14th passed illegally?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know but it can easily be amended again.
> 
> Let me give you an example.  In Missouri they are an open carry state.  In other words, you can carry your gun around with you as long as it's in plane sight.
> 
> Man charged with making terrorist threat for walking into Missouri Walmart with rifle, body armor
> 
> But not anymore.  Why?  Because people are taking their guns into walmart and shooting people.  So, the laws have to change.
> 
> Your slick arguments mean nothing to me.  Common sense matters to me most.
> 
> *Does anyone here on USMB agree with your position that illegal immigrants have rights?  I mean I know they have SOME rights but even those we can change if they are using those RIGHTS to fuck with our system.*
Click to expand...

 
 "I disagree with you but I agree with you"

 How in the world do I reply to that?


----------



## Correll

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rockwell is very far out there. I doubt he is a Trump supporter. If he is, considering his disagreement with the concept of immigration law, his reasoning is probably pretty muddled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I supported Trump and voted for him.  But, I will not do so again.  He lied about gun control and he is the most anti-gun president in the history of the United States.
> 
> We all know, whether you admit it on a board or not, that most of Trump's anti-immigrant bullshit won't pass muster in the United States Supreme Court.  But, he can sit back after his tenure as president and tell you he went to bat for you.  How can his supporters be this fucking stupid is the only question I have?
> 
> Let me see, you toss out 1 million Hispanic daddies with an average of 3 American born children.  They stay, his kids go on welfare.  Which way is costing you more?
> 
> So, let's say you deport them too... you can't deport an American, but I'll play along with your fantasies.  In a few years, those kids show up with the National ID card, Socialist Surveillance Number... ooops "_Social Security Number_" and birth certificate. You can't lock them out; they're Americans!  They have no job skills, no education, no family support system, and can't even speak the English language.  What is your master plan for dealing with them.
> 
> Once here, if you think you can keep families separated, you're a fucking retard no matter what you say about me.  When the question comes up in the United States Supreme Court, I will bet you *everything I own* (down to the shirt on my back and my credit score exceeds 800 so you know I have something in my pants besides my penis)  that the high Court will allow those erroneously called _"illegals_" to come back to the U.S.
> 
> The only group who can end the numbers of people coming here from foreign countries are those who gain control over their destiny and quit worrying about what Uncle Scam will do about it.  Whatever the feds give you, they will want something in return.  Why ask somebody to do something about your situation when YOU are the person most likely to be able to help yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, the crony court will let the illegals in.  It will make Correll think they are liberal but the reality is the corporations want these illegals flooding the job market.  But Correll will blame the "liberal" media and "liberal" supreme court.
> 
> This is how the rich are fucking America over and getting away with it.  They caused the Great Recession in 2008 and convinced guys like Correll that it was liberals that done it.  Well, now he knows he's being duped.  Maybe now he will realize he signed up for Trump University when he voted for Trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I've repeatedly agreed that the GOP share quite a bit of the responsibility for the immigration problems in this country.
> 
> 
> That being said, Trump was the candidate most credible in offering a change to the status quo.
> 
> 
> Who should we have supported instead of him, that would have given US anything better?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Based on the facts, not Trump's rhetoric, you should have voted for Hillary
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...y-trump-administration-charges-few-companies/
> 
> The Trump administration has eagerly pursued arrests of undocumented immigrants over the last two years, but the administration appears to have been far less aggressive in going after corporations involved in those cases.
> 
> Prosecuting corporations, as opposed to individual workers or managers, for immigration-related offenses was also relatively rare during the Obama administration, but it has slowed further under the Trump administration, according to a database maintained by Duke University and the University of Virginia and data reviewed by The Washington Post.
> 
> "Between 1999 and 2003, work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which subsequently was merged into the Homeland Security Department. The number of employers prosecuted for unlawfully employing immigrants dropped from 182 in 1999 to four in 2003, and fines collected declined from $3.6 million to $212,000, according to federal statistics.
> 
> "In 1999, the United States initiated fines against 417 companies. In 2004, it issued fine notices to three."
Click to expand...



Hillary wanted amnesty. That's game over for this country, in any form we recognize.


----------



## sealybobo

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having looked this thread over carefully, it is painfully obvious that no matter how much is said, the right seems to be stuck on stupid on this issue.  Is there any way that people can be objective here?
> 
> *NOBODY *can show me any sentence in the United States Constitution that gives Congress the *authority *to limit the liberty of foreigners.  So, when I have work to do and advertise for people to come out, I'm going to hire the best qualified person at the price I can afford to pay (usually $20 to $40 an hour for basic handyman work.)
> 
> If you want the job, you have to get your ass off the Internet, forego social media, hang up your cell phone for a few hours and look for a job, then work it.  Those of us in business and those with a home to keep running aren't going to lose what we have just because some of you think we owe you a damn job.  Employers create the job; they own the job; constitutionally speaking we can give them to whomever we damn well please.
> 
> We got into this clusterphuck of a situation because years ago the blacks demanded that they be given the jobs.  Now you want them because you're born in the United States.  I can't hire people that don't apply; can't afford to pay you if you don't work.  Passing laws just costs you extra taxes.
> 
> If you could succeed at closing me down,* NO* jobs would exist.  You see, when the wheels of commerce run, other jobs are created.  Here's your situation:
> 
> A Mexican kid comes along and takes a job at $20 an hour.  He APPLIED for the job.  You didn't find it because you're on the Internet bitching.  The Mexican guy has kids and an apartment (bills and responsibilities.)  Those of you bitching live in mommy's basement or your old bedroom of when you were 12.  You don't pay rent; on average most of you don't have an education, no job skills, no driver's license, and no work ethic.  All you have are tattoos, body piercings, a criminal record, an addiction to cigarettes and alcohol along with addictions to pot and possibly hard core drugs.
> 
> You want the right to be like that?  I fully support it.  But, if you live an irresponsible lifestyle, YOU pay for it.  Don't expect the employer to.  If you don't have your own house, YOU are fucking the rest of the taxpayers.  Property taxes are just as high, if not higher, than the income tax you FALSELY accuse the foreigners of not paying.  If you're living rent free with mommy (or if you're a parent with deadbeat kids), then YOU are the problem.  In all honesty I'd love to hire a staff of all white males.  The problem is most of them fit that previous paragraph and nobody should be forced to hire them?
> 
> Guys, I'm not losing what I have because some of you are too stupid to be able to compete against uneducated third worlders.  If you run big businesses out over who they hire, they will move to another country.  Then you get* NOTHING*... and if you're sitting on your ass playing video games, visiting sites on social media, smoking weed, worrying about your next body piercing or tattoo while living in your parents home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  If you're a parent letting your kids live at home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  Fix your culture, vote with your wallet and pocket book.  Boycott places that hire and / or cater to those you find offensive.  Quit thinking that you can build a government big enough to save your from your own stupidity.  In any event, get off the employers ass.  There is not a swinging dick on the face of the earth that is going to tell me who I can and cannot hire.  All this big government B.S. is over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Rockwell is very far out there. I doubt he is a Trump supporter. If he is, considering his disagreement with the concept of immigration law, his reasoning is probably pretty muddled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I supported Trump and voted for him.  But, I will not do so again.  He lied about gun control and he is the most anti-gun president in the history of the United States.
> 
> We all know, whether you admit it on a board or not, that most of Trump's anti-immigrant bullshit won't pass muster in the United States Supreme Court.  But, he can sit back after his tenure as president and tell you he went to bat for you.  How can his supporters be this fucking stupid is the only question I have?
> 
> Let me see, you toss out 1 million Hispanic daddies with an average of 3 American born children.  They stay, his kids go on welfare.  Which way is costing you more?
> 
> So, let's say you deport them too... you can't deport an American, but I'll play along with your fantasies.  In a few years, those kids show up with the National ID card, Socialist Surveillance Number... ooops "_Social Security Number_" and birth certificate. You can't lock them out; they're Americans!  They have no job skills, no education, no family support system, and can't even speak the English language.  What is your master plan for dealing with them.
> 
> Once here, if you think you can keep families separated, you're a fucking retard no matter what you say about me.  When the question comes up in the United States Supreme Court, I will bet you *everything I own* (down to the shirt on my back and my credit score exceeds 800 so you know I have something in my pants besides my penis)  that the high Court will allow those erroneously called _"illegals_" to come back to the U.S.
> 
> The only group who can end the numbers of people coming here from foreign countries are those who gain control over their destiny and quit worrying about what Uncle Scam will do about it.  Whatever the feds give you, they will want something in return.  Why ask somebody to do something about your situation when YOU are the person most likely to be able to help yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, the crony court will let the illegals in.  It will make Correll think they are liberal but the reality is the corporations want these illegals flooding the job market.  But Correll will blame the "liberal" media and "liberal" supreme court.
> 
> This is how the rich are fucking America over and getting away with it.  They caused the Great Recession in 2008 and convinced guys like Correll that it was liberals that done it.  Well, now he knows he's being duped.  Maybe now he will realize he signed up for Trump University when he voted for Trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I've repeatedly agreed that the GOP share quite a bit of the responsibility for the immigration problems in this country.
> 
> 
> That being said, Trump was the candidate most credible in offering a change to the status quo.
> 
> 
> Who should we have supported instead of him, that would have given US anything better?
Click to expand...


Trump is talking a good game I know why you fell for it.  I'm just telling you that his talk is all bullshit.  And if you do stop illegal immigration they will just open the doors and flood the market with legal immigrants.  And they will convince you we need them.  Do you want your social security?  We need more workers paying in.  Do you want 4% growth?  We need more bodies.  

I won't agree with them I'll agree with you.  But still they will spin it in a way you will somehow blame me and not them.  It's illegal employers who are your problem and too many of them are just like this Rockwell character.

I am glad to see you are frustrated talking to a right wing nut job who can argue that shit doesn't stink.  And we are helpless in trying to stop illegals from working at his company.  Why?  Because it's unconstitutional to stop him.

I'm glad you are finally seeing conservative spin on what is and isn't constitutional.  Stop being a fool thinking the GOP cares about workers.  Trump could have run as a conservative Democrat but he chose to run as a liberal sounding Republican.  I ain't buying it either way.  Either way his tax breaks were going to heavily favor the rich.  And his immigration policies aren't fixing anything because all the illegals who were here before he got here are still here.  The only way to send them packing is if they can't find jobs.  Bye


----------



## sealybobo

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rockwell is very far out there. I doubt he is a Trump supporter. If he is, considering his disagreement with the concept of immigration law, his reasoning is probably pretty muddled.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I supported Trump and voted for him.  But, I will not do so again.  He lied about gun control and he is the most anti-gun president in the history of the United States.
> 
> We all know, whether you admit it on a board or not, that most of Trump's anti-immigrant bullshit won't pass muster in the United States Supreme Court.  But, he can sit back after his tenure as president and tell you he went to bat for you.  How can his supporters be this fucking stupid is the only question I have?
> 
> Let me see, you toss out 1 million Hispanic daddies with an average of 3 American born children.  They stay, his kids go on welfare.  Which way is costing you more?
> 
> So, let's say you deport them too... you can't deport an American, but I'll play along with your fantasies.  In a few years, those kids show up with the National ID card, Socialist Surveillance Number... ooops "_Social Security Number_" and birth certificate. You can't lock them out; they're Americans!  They have no job skills, no education, no family support system, and can't even speak the English language.  What is your master plan for dealing with them.
> 
> Once here, if you think you can keep families separated, you're a fucking retard no matter what you say about me.  When the question comes up in the United States Supreme Court, I will bet you *everything I own* (down to the shirt on my back and my credit score exceeds 800 so you know I have something in my pants besides my penis)  that the high Court will allow those erroneously called _"illegals_" to come back to the U.S.
> 
> The only group who can end the numbers of people coming here from foreign countries are those who gain control over their destiny and quit worrying about what Uncle Scam will do about it.  Whatever the feds give you, they will want something in return.  Why ask somebody to do something about your situation when YOU are the person most likely to be able to help yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, the crony court will let the illegals in.  It will make Correll think they are liberal but the reality is the corporations want these illegals flooding the job market.  But Correll will blame the "liberal" media and "liberal" supreme court.
> 
> This is how the rich are fucking America over and getting away with it.  They caused the Great Recession in 2008 and convinced guys like Correll that it was liberals that done it.  Well, now he knows he's being duped.  Maybe now he will realize he signed up for Trump University when he voted for Trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I've repeatedly agreed that the GOP share quite a bit of the responsibility for the immigration problems in this country.
> 
> 
> That being said, Trump was the candidate most credible in offering a change to the status quo.
> 
> 
> Who should we have supported instead of him, that would have given US anything better?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Based on the facts, not Trump's rhetoric, you should have voted for Hillary
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...y-trump-administration-charges-few-companies/
> 
> The Trump administration has eagerly pursued arrests of undocumented immigrants over the last two years, but the administration appears to have been far less aggressive in going after corporations involved in those cases.
> 
> Prosecuting corporations, as opposed to individual workers or managers, for immigration-related offenses was also relatively rare during the Obama administration, but it has slowed further under the Trump administration, according to a database maintained by Duke University and the University of Virginia and data reviewed by The Washington Post.
> 
> "Between 1999 and 2003, work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which subsequently was merged into the Homeland Security Department. The number of employers prosecuted for unlawfully employing immigrants dropped from 182 in 1999 to four in 2003, and fines collected declined from $3.6 million to $212,000, according to federal statistics.
> 
> "In 1999, the United States initiated fines against 417 companies. In 2004, it issued fine notices to three."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary wanted amnesty. That's game over for this country, in any form we recognize.
Click to expand...


Well they are already here.  And if they get amnesty, they won't be forced to work for below American wages.  Then the corporations would have to pay them an American wage.

We are at close to zero unemployment.  We need bodies now.  The shit you are complaining about was stuff we needed to worry about during the recession when jobs were scarce.  It's amazing we are even still talking about this.  Why are we?  Because this wedge issue benefits Trump.


----------



## sealybobo

pknopp said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having looked this thread over carefully, it is painfully obvious that no matter how much is said, the right seems to be stuck on stupid on this issue.  Is there any way that people can be objective here?
> 
> *NOBODY *can show me any sentence in the United States Constitution that gives Congress the *authority *to limit the liberty of foreigners.  So, when I have work to do and advertise for people to come out, I'm going to hire the best qualified person at the price I can afford to pay (usually $20 to $40 an hour for basic handyman work.)
> 
> If you want the job, you have to get your ass off the Internet, forego social media, hang up your cell phone for a few hours and look for a job, then work it.  Those of us in business and those with a home to keep running aren't going to lose what we have just because some of you think we owe you a damn job.  Employers create the job; they own the job; constitutionally speaking we can give them to whomever we damn well please.
> 
> We got into this clusterphuck of a situation because years ago the blacks demanded that they be given the jobs.  Now you want them because you're born in the United States.  I can't hire people that don't apply; can't afford to pay you if you don't work.  Passing laws just costs you extra taxes.
> 
> If you could succeed at closing me down,* NO* jobs would exist.  You see, when the wheels of commerce run, other jobs are created.  Here's your situation:
> 
> A Mexican kid comes along and takes a job at $20 an hour.  He APPLIED for the job.  You didn't find it because you're on the Internet bitching.  The Mexican guy has kids and an apartment (bills and responsibilities.)  Those of you bitching live in mommy's basement or your old bedroom of when you were 12.  You don't pay rent; on average most of you don't have an education, no job skills, no driver's license, and no work ethic.  All you have are tattoos, body piercings, a criminal record, an addiction to cigarettes and alcohol along with addictions to pot and possibly hard core drugs.
> 
> You want the right to be like that?  I fully support it.  But, if you live an irresponsible lifestyle, YOU pay for it.  Don't expect the employer to.  If you don't have your own house, YOU are fucking the rest of the taxpayers.  Property taxes are just as high, if not higher, than the income tax you FALSELY accuse the foreigners of not paying.  If you're living rent free with mommy (or if you're a parent with deadbeat kids), then YOU are the problem.  In all honesty I'd love to hire a staff of all white males.  The problem is most of them fit that previous paragraph and nobody should be forced to hire them.
> 
> Guys, I'm not losing what I have because some of you are too stupid to be able to compete against uneducated third worlders.  If you run big businesses out over who they hire, they will move to another country.  Then you get* NOTHING*... and if you're sitting on your ass playing video games, visiting sites on social media, smoking weed, worrying about your next body piercing or tattoo while living in your parents home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  If you're a parent letting your kids live at home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  Fix your culture, vote with your wallet and pocket book.  Boycott places that hire and / or cater to those you find offensive.  Quit thinking that you can build a government big enough to save your from your own stupidity.  In any event, get off the employers ass.  There is not a swinging dick on the face of the earth that is going to tell me who I can and cannot hire.  All this big government B.S. is over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but the country does *NOT *disagree with me.  We're all adults here, son.  So, let's be honest.  If a majority of people picked the president, they chose Hitlery Clinton.  She got the most votes.  So, you're wrong on that count.
> 
> On the second count, the United States Supreme Court has opined that *NO ONE *is obligated to obey an unconstitutional act.  That is THEIR logic, not mine.
> 
> Now then, the only authority the federal government has over foreigners is "_Congress shall have the power ...To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization_"  (Article 1  Section 8 of the Constitution) which they did only months after the ratification of the United States Constitution.  In that law, it provided that:
> 
> "_Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a *free white person*, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof_..."
> 
> *United States Congress, “An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization” (March 26, 1790)*
> 
> Despite this fact, foreigners came here to work and do business for *EIGHTY FIVE YEARS* before the United States Supreme Court stepped in and granted "_plenary powers_" to the federal government for everything related to foreigners in about 1875 - 1876.
> 
> I will give you $10,000 (TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS) in cash to cite one sentence from the Constitution wherein the framers gave the United States Supreme Court to grant to any other branch of government *ANY* power, much less plenary powers.  The United States Supreme Court legislated from the bench.  And you won't have the ethical wherewithal to admit that the high Court legislated from the bench which *disrespects the Rule of Law*.  You Trumpsters preach about it, but sure as Hell don't want to live by it.  Hypocrites, every one of you!
> 
> Adding insult to injury, Congress* ILLEGALLY* passed the 14th Amendment that you probably think is valid.  If not for that Amendment, you wouldn't have all those brown babies born in the U.S. you'd like to call a racist name, but cowardly chose "_anchor babies_," and that pretext proved to be false as parents are being deported and you're being left to pay welfare for their American born children.
> 
> To give you the coup de grace, the 14th Amendment gave foreigners (regardless of any liberal immigration status the Democrats thought up for you) the government right of liberty (sic.)  While doing that they *NULLIFIED* the Bill of Rights.  This link will explain it to you:
> 
> Stolen Rights
> 
> If I get shut down, the government will raise taxes somewhere to compensate for the loss.  And you'll pay them.  You can't win.  You're on the wrong side of the argument (you're actually arguing in favor of socialism)  and you're on the wrong side of history.  That above link will help you a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, I'm curious (though I do not know why) how was the 14th passed illegally?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know but it can easily be amended again.
> 
> Let me give you an example.  In Missouri they are an open carry state.  In other words, you can carry your gun around with you as long as it's in plane sight.
> 
> Man charged with making terrorist threat for walking into Missouri Walmart with rifle, body armor
> 
> But not anymore.  Why?  Because people are taking their guns into walmart and shooting people.  So, the laws have to change.
> 
> Your slick arguments mean nothing to me.  Common sense matters to me most.
> 
> *Does anyone here on USMB agree with your position that illegal immigrants have rights?  I mean I know they have SOME rights but even those we can change if they are using those RIGHTS to fuck with our system.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "I disagree with you but I agree with you"
> 
> How in the world do I reply to that?
Click to expand...


That comment was supposed to be directed at Rockwell.


----------



## Correll

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rockwell is very far out there. I doubt he is a Trump supporter. If he is, considering his disagreement with the concept of immigration law, his reasoning is probably pretty muddled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I supported Trump and voted for him.  But, I will not do so again.  He lied about gun control and he is the most anti-gun president in the history of the United States.
> 
> We all know, whether you admit it on a board or not, that most of Trump's anti-immigrant bullshit won't pass muster in the United States Supreme Court.  But, he can sit back after his tenure as president and tell you he went to bat for you.  How can his supporters be this fucking stupid is the only question I have?
> 
> Let me see, you toss out 1 million Hispanic daddies with an average of 3 American born children.  They stay, his kids go on welfare.  Which way is costing you more?
> 
> So, let's say you deport them too... you can't deport an American, but I'll play along with your fantasies.  In a few years, those kids show up with the National ID card, Socialist Surveillance Number... ooops "_Social Security Number_" and birth certificate. You can't lock them out; they're Americans!  They have no job skills, no education, no family support system, and can't even speak the English language.  What is your master plan for dealing with them.
> 
> Once here, if you think you can keep families separated, you're a fucking retard no matter what you say about me.  When the question comes up in the United States Supreme Court, I will bet you *everything I own* (down to the shirt on my back and my credit score exceeds 800 so you know I have something in my pants besides my penis)  that the high Court will allow those erroneously called _"illegals_" to come back to the U.S.
> 
> The only group who can end the numbers of people coming here from foreign countries are those who gain control over their destiny and quit worrying about what Uncle Scam will do about it.  Whatever the feds give you, they will want something in return.  Why ask somebody to do something about your situation when YOU are the person most likely to be able to help yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, the crony court will let the illegals in.  It will make Correll think they are liberal but the reality is the corporations want these illegals flooding the job market.  But Correll will blame the "liberal" media and "liberal" supreme court.
> 
> This is how the rich are fucking America over and getting away with it.  They caused the Great Recession in 2008 and convinced guys like Correll that it was liberals that done it.  Well, now he knows he's being duped.  Maybe now he will realize he signed up for Trump University when he voted for Trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I've repeatedly agreed that the GOP share quite a bit of the responsibility for the immigration problems in this country.
> 
> 
> That being said, Trump was the candidate most credible in offering a change to the status quo.
> 
> 
> Who should we have supported instead of him, that would have given US anything better?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump is talking a good game I know why you fell for it.  I'm just telling you that his talk is all bullshit.  And if you do stop illegal immigration they will just open the doors and flood the market with legal immigrants.  And they will convince you we need them.  Do you want your social security?  We need more workers paying in.  Do you want 4% growth?  We need more bodies.
> 
> I won't agree with them I'll agree with you.  But still they will spin it in a way you will somehow blame me and not them.  It's illegal employers who are your problem and too many of them are just like this Rockwell character.
> 
> I am glad to see you are frustrated talking to a right wing nut job who can argue that shit doesn't stink.  And we are helpless in trying to stop illegals from working at his company.  Why?  Because it's unconstitutional to stop him.
> 
> I'm glad you are finally seeing conservative spin on what is and isn't constitutional.  Stop being a fool thinking the GOP cares about workers.  Trump could have run as a conservative Democrat but he chose to run as a liberal sounding Republican.  I ain't buying it either way.  Either way his tax breaks were going to heavily favor the rich.  And his immigration policies aren't fixing anything because all the illegals who were here before he got here are still here.  The only way to send them packing is if they can't find jobs.  Bye
Click to expand...





Perhaps his talk was all bullshit. Some of the news seems to indicate some increased seriousness at ICE. 


I'll admit the GOP doesn't care about workers, if you do the same for the Dems.


----------



## pknopp

sealybobo said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but the country does *NOT *disagree with me.  We're all adults here, son.  So, let's be honest.  If a majority of people picked the president, they chose Hitlery Clinton.  She got the most votes.  So, you're wrong on that count.
> 
> On the second count, the United States Supreme Court has opined that *NO ONE *is obligated to obey an unconstitutional act.  That is THEIR logic, not mine.
> 
> Now then, the only authority the federal government has over foreigners is "_Congress shall have the power ...To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization_"  (Article 1  Section 8 of the Constitution) which they did only months after the ratification of the United States Constitution.  In that law, it provided that:
> 
> "_Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a *free white person*, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof_..."
> 
> *United States Congress, “An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization” (March 26, 1790)*
> 
> Despite this fact, foreigners came here to work and do business for *EIGHTY FIVE YEARS* before the United States Supreme Court stepped in and granted "_plenary powers_" to the federal government for everything related to foreigners in about 1875 - 1876.
> 
> I will give you $10,000 (TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS) in cash to cite one sentence from the Constitution wherein the framers gave the United States Supreme Court to grant to any other branch of government *ANY* power, much less plenary powers.  The United States Supreme Court legislated from the bench.  And you won't have the ethical wherewithal to admit that the high Court legislated from the bench which *disrespects the Rule of Law*.  You Trumpsters preach about it, but sure as Hell don't want to live by it.  Hypocrites, every one of you!
> 
> Adding insult to injury, Congress* ILLEGALLY* passed the 14th Amendment that you probably think is valid.  If not for that Amendment, you wouldn't have all those brown babies born in the U.S. you'd like to call a racist name, but cowardly chose "_anchor babies_," and that pretext proved to be false as parents are being deported and you're being left to pay welfare for their American born children.
> 
> To give you the coup de grace, the 14th Amendment gave foreigners (regardless of any liberal immigration status the Democrats thought up for you) the government right of liberty (sic.)  While doing that they *NULLIFIED* the Bill of Rights.  This link will explain it to you:
> 
> Stolen Rights
> 
> If I get shut down, the government will raise taxes somewhere to compensate for the loss.  And you'll pay them.  You can't win.  You're on the wrong side of the argument (you're actually arguing in favor of socialism)  and you're on the wrong side of history.  That above link will help you a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, I'm curious (though I do not know why) how was the 14th passed illegally?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know but it can easily be amended again.
> 
> Let me give you an example.  In Missouri they are an open carry state.  In other words, you can carry your gun around with you as long as it's in plane sight.
> 
> Man charged with making terrorist threat for walking into Missouri Walmart with rifle, body armor
> 
> But not anymore.  Why?  Because people are taking their guns into walmart and shooting people.  So, the laws have to change.
> 
> Your slick arguments mean nothing to me.  Common sense matters to me most.
> 
> *Does anyone here on USMB agree with your position that illegal immigrants have rights?  I mean I know they have SOME rights but even those we can change if they are using those RIGHTS to fuck with our system.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "I disagree with you but I agree with you"
> 
> How in the world do I reply to that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That comment was supposed to be directed at Rockwell.
Click to expand...


 I don't know what Rockwell said but to go back to what you said.....

_*Does anyone here on USMB agree with your position that illegal immigrants have rights? I mean I know they have SOME rights but even those we can change if they are using those RIGHTS to fuck with our system. *_*

*Yes, I agree they have rights if that was Rockwells position and it seems you do also.


----------



## Correll

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I supported Trump and voted for him.  But, I will not do so again.  He lied about gun control and he is the most anti-gun president in the history of the United States.
> 
> We all know, whether you admit it on a board or not, that most of Trump's anti-immigrant bullshit won't pass muster in the United States Supreme Court.  But, he can sit back after his tenure as president and tell you he went to bat for you.  How can his supporters be this fucking stupid is the only question I have?
> 
> Let me see, you toss out 1 million Hispanic daddies with an average of 3 American born children.  They stay, his kids go on welfare.  Which way is costing you more?
> 
> So, let's say you deport them too... you can't deport an American, but I'll play along with your fantasies.  In a few years, those kids show up with the National ID card, Socialist Surveillance Number... ooops "_Social Security Number_" and birth certificate. You can't lock them out; they're Americans!  They have no job skills, no education, no family support system, and can't even speak the English language.  What is your master plan for dealing with them.
> 
> Once here, if you think you can keep families separated, you're a fucking retard no matter what you say about me.  When the question comes up in the United States Supreme Court, I will bet you *everything I own* (down to the shirt on my back and my credit score exceeds 800 so you know I have something in my pants besides my penis)  that the high Court will allow those erroneously called _"illegals_" to come back to the U.S.
> 
> The only group who can end the numbers of people coming here from foreign countries are those who gain control over their destiny and quit worrying about what Uncle Scam will do about it.  Whatever the feds give you, they will want something in return.  Why ask somebody to do something about your situation when YOU are the person most likely to be able to help yourself?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the crony court will let the illegals in.  It will make Correll think they are liberal but the reality is the corporations want these illegals flooding the job market.  But Correll will blame the "liberal" media and "liberal" supreme court.
> 
> This is how the rich are fucking America over and getting away with it.  They caused the Great Recession in 2008 and convinced guys like Correll that it was liberals that done it.  Well, now he knows he's being duped.  Maybe now he will realize he signed up for Trump University when he voted for Trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I've repeatedly agreed that the GOP share quite a bit of the responsibility for the immigration problems in this country.
> 
> 
> That being said, Trump was the candidate most credible in offering a change to the status quo.
> 
> 
> Who should we have supported instead of him, that would have given US anything better?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Based on the facts, not Trump's rhetoric, you should have voted for Hillary
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...y-trump-administration-charges-few-companies/
> 
> The Trump administration has eagerly pursued arrests of undocumented immigrants over the last two years, but the administration appears to have been far less aggressive in going after corporations involved in those cases.
> 
> Prosecuting corporations, as opposed to individual workers or managers, for immigration-related offenses was also relatively rare during the Obama administration, but it has slowed further under the Trump administration, according to a database maintained by Duke University and the University of Virginia and data reviewed by The Washington Post.
> 
> "Between 1999 and 2003, work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which subsequently was merged into the Homeland Security Department. The number of employers prosecuted for unlawfully employing immigrants dropped from 182 in 1999 to four in 2003, and fines collected declined from $3.6 million to $212,000, according to federal statistics.
> 
> "In 1999, the United States initiated fines against 417 companies. In 2004, it issued fine notices to three."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary wanted amnesty. That's game over for this country, in any form we recognize.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well they are already here.  And if they get amnesty, they won't be forced to work for below American wages.  Then the corporations would have to pay them an American wage.
> 
> We are at close to zero unemployment.  We need bodies now.  The shit you are complaining about was stuff we needed to worry about during the recession when jobs were scarce.  It's amazing we are even still talking about this.  Why are we?  Because this wedge issue benefits Trump.
Click to expand...



If they remain, they keep giving the employers an artificially flooded labor market to use to not raise wages.


The reason we are talking about this, after the recession, is because this is about underlying trends, not the business cycle. 


I want the market tight though decades of the business cycles, to make up for the decades of the market being flooded.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having looked this thread over carefully, it is painfully obvious that no matter how much is said, the right seems to be stuck on stupid on this issue.  Is there any way that people can be objective here?
> 
> *NOBODY *can show me any sentence in the United States Constitution that gives Congress the *authority *to limit the liberty of foreigners.  So, when I have work to do and advertise for people to come out, I'm going to hire the best qualified person at the price I can afford to pay (usually $20 to $40 an hour for basic handyman work.)
> 
> If you want the job, you have to get your ass off the Internet, forego social media, hang up your cell phone for a few hours and look for a job, then work it.  Those of us in business and those with a home to keep running aren't going to lose what we have just because some of you think we owe you a damn job.  Employers create the job; they own the job; constitutionally speaking we can give them to whomever we damn well please.
> 
> We got into this clusterphuck of a situation because years ago the blacks demanded that they be given the jobs.  Now you want them because you're born in the United States.  I can't hire people that don't apply; can't afford to pay you if you don't work.  Passing laws just costs you extra taxes.
> 
> If you could succeed at closing me down,* NO* jobs would exist.  You see, when the wheels of commerce run, other jobs are created.  Here's your situation:
> 
> A Mexican kid comes along and takes a job at $20 an hour.  He APPLIED for the job.  You didn't find it because you're on the Internet bitching.  The Mexican guy has kids and an apartment (bills and responsibilities.)  Those of you bitching live in mommy's basement or your old bedroom of when you were 12.  You don't pay rent; on average most of you don't have an education, no job skills, no driver's license, and no work ethic.  All you have are tattoos, body piercings, a criminal record, an addiction to cigarettes and alcohol along with addictions to pot and possibly hard core drugs.
> 
> You want the right to be like that?  I fully support it.  But, if you live an irresponsible lifestyle, YOU pay for it.  Don't expect the employer to.  If you don't have your own house, YOU are fucking the rest of the taxpayers.  Property taxes are just as high, if not higher, than the income tax you FALSELY accuse the foreigners of not paying.  If you're living rent free with mommy (or if you're a parent with deadbeat kids), then YOU are the problem.  In all honesty I'd love to hire a staff of all white males.  The problem is most of them fit that previous paragraph and nobody should be forced to hire them.
> 
> Guys, I'm not losing what I have because some of you are too stupid to be able to compete against uneducated third worlders.  If you run big businesses out over who they hire, they will move to another country.  Then you get* NOTHING*... and if you're sitting on your ass playing video games, visiting sites on social media, smoking weed, worrying about your next body piercing or tattoo while living in your parents home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  If you're a parent letting your kids live at home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  Fix your culture, vote with your wallet and pocket book.  Boycott places that hire and / or cater to those you find offensive.  Quit thinking that you can build a government big enough to save your from your own stupidity.  In any event, get off the employers ass.  There is not a swinging dick on the face of the earth that is going to tell me who I can and cannot hire.  All this big government B.S. is over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but the country does *NOT *disagree with me.  We're all adults here, son.  So, let's be honest.  If a majority of people picked the president, they chose Hitlery Clinton.  She got the most votes.  So, you're wrong on that count.
> 
> On the second count, the United States Supreme Court has opined that *NO ONE *is obligated to obey an unconstitutional act.  That is THEIR logic, not mine.
> 
> Now then, the only authority the federal government has over foreigners is "_Congress shall have the power ...To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization_"  (Article 1  Section 8 of the Constitution) which they did only months after the ratification of the United States Constitution.  In that law, it provided that:
> 
> "_Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a *free white person*, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof_..."
> 
> *United States Congress, “An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization” (March 26, 1790)*
> 
> Despite this fact, foreigners came here to work and do business for *EIGHTY FIVE YEARS* before the United States Supreme Court stepped in and granted "_plenary powers_" to the federal government for everything related to foreigners in about 1875 - 1876.
> 
> I will give you $10,000 (TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS) in cash to cite one sentence from the Constitution wherein the framers gave the United States Supreme Court to grant to any other branch of government *ANY* power, much less plenary powers.  The United States Supreme Court legislated from the bench.  And you won't have the ethical wherewithal to admit that the high Court legislated from the bench which *disrespects the Rule of Law*.  You Trumpsters preach about it, but sure as Hell don't want to live by it.  Hypocrites, every one of you!
> 
> Adding insult to injury, Congress* ILLEGALLY* passed the 14th Amendment that you probably think is valid.  If not for that Amendment, you wouldn't have all those brown babies born in the U.S. you'd like to call a racist name, but cowardly chose "_anchor babies_," and that pretext proved to be false as parents are being deported and you're being left to pay welfare for their American born children.
> 
> To give you the coup de grace, the 14th Amendment gave foreigners (regardless of any liberal immigration status the Democrats thought up for you) the government right of liberty (sic.)  While doing that they *NULLIFIED* the Bill of Rights.  This link will explain it to you:
> 
> Stolen Rights
> 
> If I get shut down, the government will raise taxes somewhere to compensate for the loss.  And you'll pay them.  You can't win.  You're on the wrong side of the argument (you're actually arguing in favor of socialism)  and you're on the wrong side of history.  That above link will help you a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, I'm curious (though I do not know why) how was the 14th passed illegally?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know but it can easily be amended again.
> 
> Let me give you an example.  In Missouri they are an open carry state.  In other words, you can carry your gun around with you as long as it's in plane sight.
> 
> Man charged with making terrorist threat for walking into Missouri Walmart with rifle, body armor
> 
> But not anymore.  Why?  Because people are taking their guns into walmart and shooting people.  So, the laws have to change.
> 
> Your slick arguments mean nothing to me.  Common sense matters to me most.
> 
> Does anyone here on USMB agree with your position that illegal immigrants have rights?  I mean I know they have SOME rights but even those we can change if they are using those RIGHTS to fuck with our system.
Click to expand...



Yep.  According to the United States Supreme Court, they do have rights (sic.)


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having looked this thread over carefully, it is painfully obvious that no matter how much is said, the right seems to be stuck on stupid on this issue.  Is there any way that people can be objective here?
> 
> *NOBODY *can show me any sentence in the United States Constitution that gives Congress the *authority *to limit the liberty of foreigners.  So, when I have work to do and advertise for people to come out, I'm going to hire the best qualified person at the price I can afford to pay (usually $20 to $40 an hour for basic handyman work.)
> 
> If you want the job, you have to get your ass off the Internet, forego social media, hang up your cell phone for a few hours and look for a job, then work it.  Those of us in business and those with a home to keep running aren't going to lose what we have just because some of you think we owe you a damn job.  Employers create the job; they own the job; constitutionally speaking we can give them to whomever we damn well please.
> 
> We got into this clusterphuck of a situation because years ago the blacks demanded that they be given the jobs.  Now you want them because you're born in the United States.  I can't hire people that don't apply; can't afford to pay you if you don't work.  Passing laws just costs you extra taxes.
> 
> If you could succeed at closing me down,* NO* jobs would exist.  You see, when the wheels of commerce run, other jobs are created.  Here's your situation:
> 
> A Mexican kid comes along and takes a job at $20 an hour.  He APPLIED for the job.  You didn't find it because you're on the Internet bitching.  The Mexican guy has kids and an apartment (bills and responsibilities.)  Those of you bitching live in mommy's basement or your old bedroom of when you were 12.  You don't pay rent; on average most of you don't have an education, no job skills, no driver's license, and no work ethic.  All you have are tattoos, body piercings, a criminal record, an addiction to cigarettes and alcohol along with addictions to pot and possibly hard core drugs.
> 
> You want the right to be like that?  I fully support it.  But, if you live an irresponsible lifestyle, YOU pay for it.  Don't expect the employer to.  If you don't have your own house, YOU are fucking the rest of the taxpayers.  Property taxes are just as high, if not higher, than the income tax you FALSELY accuse the foreigners of not paying.  If you're living rent free with mommy (or if you're a parent with deadbeat kids), then YOU are the problem.  In all honesty I'd love to hire a staff of all white males.  The problem is most of them fit that previous paragraph and nobody should be forced to hire them.
> 
> Guys, I'm not losing what I have because some of you are too stupid to be able to compete against uneducated third worlders.  If you run big businesses out over who they hire, they will move to another country.  Then you get* NOTHING*... and if you're sitting on your ass playing video games, visiting sites on social media, smoking weed, worrying about your next body piercing or tattoo while living in your parents home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  If you're a parent letting your kids live at home, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  Fix your culture, vote with your wallet and pocket book.  Boycott places that hire and / or cater to those you find offensive.  Quit thinking that you can build a government big enough to save your from your own stupidity.  In any event, get off the employers ass.  There is not a swinging dick on the face of the earth that is going to tell me who I can and cannot hire.  All this big government B.S. is over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but the country does *NOT *disagree with me.  We're all adults here, son.  So, let's be honest.  If a majority of people picked the president, they chose Hitlery Clinton.  She got the most votes.  So, you're wrong on that count.
> 
> On the second count, the United States Supreme Court has opined that *NO ONE *is obligated to obey an unconstitutional act.  That is THEIR logic, not mine.
> 
> Now then, the only authority the federal government has over foreigners is "_Congress shall have the power ...To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization_"  (Article 1  Section 8 of the Constitution) which they did only months after the ratification of the United States Constitution.  In that law, it provided that:
> 
> "_Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a *free white person*, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof_..."
> 
> *United States Congress, “An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization” (March 26, 1790)*
> 
> Despite this fact, foreigners came here to work and do business for *EIGHTY FIVE YEARS* before the United States Supreme Court stepped in and granted "_plenary powers_" to the federal government for everything related to foreigners in about 1875 - 1876.
> 
> I will give you $10,000 (TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS) in cash to cite one sentence from the Constitution wherein the framers gave the United States Supreme Court to grant to any other branch of government *ANY* power, much less plenary powers.  The United States Supreme Court legislated from the bench.  And you won't have the ethical wherewithal to admit that the high Court legislated from the bench which *disrespects the Rule of Law*.  You Trumpsters preach about it, but sure as Hell don't want to live by it.  Hypocrites, every one of you!
> 
> Adding insult to injury, Congress* ILLEGALLY* passed the 14th Amendment that you probably think is valid.  If not for that Amendment, you wouldn't have all those brown babies born in the U.S. you'd like to call a racist name, but cowardly chose "_anchor babies_," and that pretext proved to be false as parents are being deported and you're being left to pay welfare for their American born children.
> 
> To give you the coup de grace, the 14th Amendment gave foreigners (regardless of any liberal immigration status the Democrats thought up for you) the government right of liberty (sic.)  While doing that they *NULLIFIED* the Bill of Rights.  This link will explain it to you:
> 
> Stolen Rights
> 
> If I get shut down, the government will raise taxes somewhere to compensate for the loss.  And you'll pay them.  You can't win.  You're on the wrong side of the argument (you're actually arguing in favor of socialism)  and you're on the wrong side of history.  That above link will help you a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So muslim illegals can come flooding in over the border and we are powerless to stop you from hiring them?
> 
> This is just ridiculous.  Does anyone here at USMB agree with you?  Or are you just trying to be outrageous?
> 
> There will be no loss.  Another American will just fill in that void you left when we shut your business down.
> 
> Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> You know who agrees with you?  All the illegal employers in America.
> 
> And I've been telling these stupid Republicans that it is YOU who is the problem and not illegal immigrants but Fox and Rush got these idiots worshipping you job creators.  Little do they know you are stealing from the American middle class.
> 
> The cost of illegal immigration to taxpayers is growing at an unsustainable pace
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> America is a REPUBLIC, not a democracy.  If everybody here wants to disagree, that is their Right as an American.  You dodged replying to the link I left.  Wonder why.
> 
> No Americans are filling the void left by American businesses.  Foreigners are buying them up.  You sit on your ass and pray for my demise, thinking I owe you a job because your sorry ass was born in the USA.
> 
> You have to go to school; you have to learn how to do a job; you have to develop a work ethic.  Then you have to APPLY for the job.  People like you don't.  You're here all day moaning and groaning, crying and complaining when you should be acquiring a skill set.  The job ins't going to come and find you son.
> 
> If I get put out of business, there will be Hispanics and Jamaicans that will be doing this stuff the next day.  I've already told your dumb ass I'd hire a whole staff of white American males, but finding white people who aren't on drugs, have their head into video games and social media is like trying to find gold nuggets in a septic tank.
> 
> Clean up your culture and your problems will go away on their own.  The government is powerless to save you from your own stupidity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ha!  I went to school.  The illegals you hire didn't.
> 
> You sit on your ass thinking you can hire people who aren't legally allowed to work in this country.  You sir are a traitor.
> 
> Yes, your competition will quickly and easily fill the void you leave.  No one needs you.
> 
> What you are saying is strangely similar to the shit you Republicans were telling us when Bush was in office.  It wasn't the economy that was fucked up, it was US.  WE need to go back to school or start our own business if we don't like what we are being paid.
> 
> Then Obama got into office and then you flip flopping Republicans started saying it was the government's fault.  It was Obama's fault.  It was now ok to blame the government because it wasn't your party that was running it.
> 
> Now you are back to telling American workers they suck.  Welcome back.  I missed you guys.  This is the real you.  LOL.
> 
> P.S.  I make 6 figures and have no bills.  Maybe I spend $2000 a month total.  What do I make after taxes something like $75k?  So I save about $50K a year.  I'm not one of the loser blue collar Americans you are referring to.  Correll needs to hear what you are saying.  Blue collar wages will never go up because you corporations own/control the system.  Trump cries about illegals and you hire them up.  Asshole.
Click to expand...



You're the fucking traitor.  When I was putting my life on the line for this shit, you were beating your meat, waiting for someone else to do the work.  You lie about your income - you're posting here to make money. Bite me liar.  Traitor?  You fucking piece of shit.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is absurd.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I just wish all of Trump's blue collar supporters could hear what you just said about them.  They are deplorable.  I agree.
> 
> And you think you should be legally allowed to hire people who are here in the country illegally?  Sorry but your country disagrees with you.  What you are is an illegal employer and you should have your business taken away from you.
> 
> GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!  By all means fucking leave.  Lets see you succeed in any other country besides the USA you fucking asshole.
> 
> Maybe you need to pay an American wage.  Maybe that's why you can't find anyone good to come work for you.
> 
> Oh, and the arguments you are making would actually be good arguments in a good economy when wages are up but Trump said he was going to kick illegals out and build a wall in order to raise wages for blue collar workers.  We all know wages go down when the market is flooded with workers.  So right now we have really low unemployment numbers.  So then why the fuck is Trump still talking about illegals?  I'll tell you why.  Because it wins over the racist vote.  You got to make someone else the bad guy.  It's not the corporations who want to keep workers wages down.  It's either the workers fault or the illegals.
> 
> This reminds me of the GOP arguments that you guys made when Bush was in office.  Meanwhile the rich got richer moving their operations to other countries.  LEAVE!  If you can make more somewhere else you'd already be gone you fucking traitor.
> 
> You should lose your business and go to jail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but the country does *NOT *disagree with me.  We're all adults here, son.  So, let's be honest.  If a majority of people picked the president, they chose Hitlery Clinton.  She got the most votes.  So, you're wrong on that count.
> 
> On the second count, the United States Supreme Court has opined that *NO ONE *is obligated to obey an unconstitutional act.  That is THEIR logic, not mine.
> 
> Now then, the only authority the federal government has over foreigners is "_Congress shall have the power ...To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization_"  (Article 1  Section 8 of the Constitution) which they did only months after the ratification of the United States Constitution.  In that law, it provided that:
> 
> "_Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a *free white person*, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof_..."
> 
> *United States Congress, “An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization” (March 26, 1790)*
> 
> Despite this fact, foreigners came here to work and do business for *EIGHTY FIVE YEARS* before the United States Supreme Court stepped in and granted "_plenary powers_" to the federal government for everything related to foreigners in about 1875 - 1876.
> 
> I will give you $10,000 (TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS) in cash to cite one sentence from the Constitution wherein the framers gave the United States Supreme Court to grant to any other branch of government *ANY* power, much less plenary powers.  The United States Supreme Court legislated from the bench.  And you won't have the ethical wherewithal to admit that the high Court legislated from the bench which *disrespects the Rule of Law*.  You Trumpsters preach about it, but sure as Hell don't want to live by it.  Hypocrites, every one of you!
> 
> Adding insult to injury, Congress* ILLEGALLY* passed the 14th Amendment that you probably think is valid.  If not for that Amendment, you wouldn't have all those brown babies born in the U.S. you'd like to call a racist name, but cowardly chose "_anchor babies_," and that pretext proved to be false as parents are being deported and you're being left to pay welfare for their American born children.
> 
> To give you the coup de grace, the 14th Amendment gave foreigners (regardless of any liberal immigration status the Democrats thought up for you) the government right of liberty (sic.)  While doing that they *NULLIFIED* the Bill of Rights.  This link will explain it to you:
> 
> Stolen Rights
> 
> If I get shut down, the government will raise taxes somewhere to compensate for the loss.  And you'll pay them.  You can't win.  You're on the wrong side of the argument (you're actually arguing in favor of socialism)  and you're on the wrong side of history.  That above link will help you a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, I'm curious (though I do not know why) how was the 14th passed illegally?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know but it can easily be amended again.
> 
> Let me give you an example.  In Missouri they are an open carry state.  In other words, you can carry your gun around with you as long as it's in plane sight.
> 
> Man charged with making terrorist threat for walking into Missouri Walmart with rifle, body armor
> 
> But not anymore.  Why?  Because people are taking their guns into walmart and shooting people.  So, the laws have to change.
> 
> Your slick arguments mean nothing to me.  Common sense matters to me most.
> 
> *Does anyone here on USMB agree with your position that illegal immigrants have rights?  I mean I know they have SOME rights but even those we can change if they are using those RIGHTS to fuck with our system.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "I disagree with you but I agree with you"
> 
> How in the world do I reply to that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That comment was supposed to be directed at Rockwell.
Click to expand...


So which is it?  We're at statistical zero unemployment OR Trump's economic policies aren't all that and a bag of chips?  If you're at statistical unemployment, it's been proven you don't need a wall or limits on who employers hire.  If jobs are that scarce, you should have voted for Clinton.  Which is it?


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rockwell is very far out there. I doubt he is a Trump supporter. If he is, considering his disagreement with the concept of immigration law, his reasoning is probably pretty muddled.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I supported Trump and voted for him.  But, I will not do so again.  He lied about gun control and he is the most anti-gun president in the history of the United States.
> 
> We all know, whether you admit it on a board or not, that most of Trump's anti-immigrant bullshit won't pass muster in the United States Supreme Court.  But, he can sit back after his tenure as president and tell you he went to bat for you.  How can his supporters be this fucking stupid is the only question I have?
> 
> Let me see, you toss out 1 million Hispanic daddies with an average of 3 American born children.  They stay, his kids go on welfare.  Which way is costing you more?
> 
> So, let's say you deport them too... you can't deport an American, but I'll play along with your fantasies.  In a few years, those kids show up with the National ID card, Socialist Surveillance Number... ooops "_Social Security Number_" and birth certificate. You can't lock them out; they're Americans!  They have no job skills, no education, no family support system, and can't even speak the English language.  What is your master plan for dealing with them.
> 
> Once here, if you think you can keep families separated, you're a fucking retard no matter what you say about me.  When the question comes up in the United States Supreme Court, I will bet you *everything I own* (down to the shirt on my back and my credit score exceeds 800 so you know I have something in my pants besides my penis)  that the high Court will allow those erroneously called _"illegals_" to come back to the U.S.
> 
> The only group who can end the numbers of people coming here from foreign countries are those who gain control over their destiny and quit worrying about what Uncle Scam will do about it.  Whatever the feds give you, they will want something in return.  Why ask somebody to do something about your situation when YOU are the person most likely to be able to help yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, the crony court will let the illegals in.  It will make Correll think they are liberal but the reality is the corporations want these illegals flooding the job market.  But Correll will blame the "liberal" media and "liberal" supreme court.
> 
> This is how the rich are fucking America over and getting away with it.  They caused the Great Recession in 2008 and convinced guys like Correll that it was liberals that done it.  Well, now he knows he's being duped.  Maybe now he will realize he signed up for Trump University when he voted for Trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I've repeatedly agreed that the GOP share quite a bit of the responsibility for the immigration problems in this country.
> 
> 
> That being said, Trump was the candidate most credible in offering a change to the status quo.
> 
> 
> Who should we have supported instead of him, that would have given US anything better?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump is talking a good game I know why you fell for it.  I'm just telling you that his talk is all bullshit.  And if you do stop illegal immigration they will just open the doors and flood the market with legal immigrants.  And they will convince you we need them.  Do you want your social security?  We need more workers paying in.  Do you want 4% growth?  We need more bodies.
> 
> I won't agree with them I'll agree with you.  But still they will spin it in a way you will somehow blame me and not them.  It's illegal employers who are your problem and too many of them are just like this Rockwell character.
> 
> I am glad to see you are frustrated talking to a right wing nut job who can argue that shit doesn't stink.  And we are helpless in trying to stop illegals from working at his company.  Why?  Because it's unconstitutional to stop him.
> 
> I'm glad you are finally seeing conservative spin on what is and isn't constitutional.  Stop being a fool thinking the GOP cares about workers.  Trump could have run as a conservative Democrat but he chose to run as a liberal sounding Republican.  I ain't buying it either way.  Either way his tax breaks were going to heavily favor the rich.  And his immigration policies aren't fixing anything because all the illegals who were here before he got here are still here.  The only way to send them packing is if they can't find jobs.  Bye
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps his talk was all bullshit. Some of the news seems to indicate some increased seriousness at ICE.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll admit the GOP doesn't care about workers, if you do the same for the Dems.
Click to expand...


I would not bullshit you.  Show up when I have jobs available and if you can do the job for what I can afford, you got it.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

How can people tell me they are getting "low wages" when you can become a handyman and make $30 an hour for as many hours as you stand on your feet in a week?

It takes six months of training to be able to become productive.  $30 an hour based on a 40 hour work week and a two week vacation = 60 K per year.

That is way the Hell more than the average American salary:

What Is the Average Income in the U.S. in 2019?

Some people just don't want to work.


----------



## Papageorgio

sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, Thommy Boi is a racist, bigot who puts on a hate radio show. The guy is just nuts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show me where/when he's been a racist.
Click to expand...


Thorny BoI? You have to ask? You can start by his racist BS to Carson, Cain and Rice. He loves only the blacks that stay on the plantation.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Papageorgio said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, Thommy Boi is a racist, bigot who puts on a hate radio show. The guy is just nuts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show me where/when he's been a racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thorny BoI? You have to ask? You can start by his racist BS to Carson, Cain and Rice. He loves only the blacks that stay on the plantation.
Click to expand...



I live on a plantation.  I don't own the plantation, but I do the house on my piece of the plantation.  Of course that is part of the name  developers gave to this neighborhood.


----------



## danielpalos

The right wing insists on wasting money on their right wing fantasy but blame the Poor for being too expensive.


----------



## Papageorgio

danielpalos said:


> The right wing insists on wasting money on their right wing fantasy but blame the Poor for being too expensive.



lol! Thanks for the daily laugh!


----------



## danielpalos

Papageorgio said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> The right wing insists on wasting money on their right wing fantasy but blame the Poor for being too expensive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol! Thanks for the daily laugh!
Click to expand...

You are welcome.


----------



## Correll

Porter Rockwell said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I supported Trump and voted for him.  But, I will not do so again.  He lied about gun control and he is the most anti-gun president in the history of the United States.
> 
> We all know, whether you admit it on a board or not, that most of Trump's anti-immigrant bullshit won't pass muster in the United States Supreme Court.  But, he can sit back after his tenure as president and tell you he went to bat for you.  How can his supporters be this fucking stupid is the only question I have?
> 
> Let me see, you toss out 1 million Hispanic daddies with an average of 3 American born children.  They stay, his kids go on welfare.  Which way is costing you more?
> 
> So, let's say you deport them too... you can't deport an American, but I'll play along with your fantasies.  In a few years, those kids show up with the National ID card, Socialist Surveillance Number... ooops "_Social Security Number_" and birth certificate. You can't lock them out; they're Americans!  They have no job skills, no education, no family support system, and can't even speak the English language.  What is your master plan for dealing with them.
> 
> Once here, if you think you can keep families separated, you're a fucking retard no matter what you say about me.  When the question comes up in the United States Supreme Court, I will bet you *everything I own* (down to the shirt on my back and my credit score exceeds 800 so you know I have something in my pants besides my penis)  that the high Court will allow those erroneously called _"illegals_" to come back to the U.S.
> 
> The only group who can end the numbers of people coming here from foreign countries are those who gain control over their destiny and quit worrying about what Uncle Scam will do about it.  Whatever the feds give you, they will want something in return.  Why ask somebody to do something about your situation when YOU are the person most likely to be able to help yourself?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the crony court will let the illegals in.  It will make Correll think they are liberal but the reality is the corporations want these illegals flooding the job market.  But Correll will blame the "liberal" media and "liberal" supreme court.
> 
> This is how the rich are fucking America over and getting away with it.  They caused the Great Recession in 2008 and convinced guys like Correll that it was liberals that done it.  Well, now he knows he's being duped.  Maybe now he will realize he signed up for Trump University when he voted for Trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I've repeatedly agreed that the GOP share quite a bit of the responsibility for the immigration problems in this country.
> 
> 
> That being said, Trump was the candidate most credible in offering a change to the status quo.
> 
> 
> Who should we have supported instead of him, that would have given US anything better?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump is talking a good game I know why you fell for it.  I'm just telling you that his talk is all bullshit.  And if you do stop illegal immigration they will just open the doors and flood the market with legal immigrants.  And they will convince you we need them.  Do you want your social security?  We need more workers paying in.  Do you want 4% growth?  We need more bodies.
> 
> I won't agree with them I'll agree with you.  But still they will spin it in a way you will somehow blame me and not them.  It's illegal employers who are your problem and too many of them are just like this Rockwell character.
> 
> I am glad to see you are frustrated talking to a right wing nut job who can argue that shit doesn't stink.  And we are helpless in trying to stop illegals from working at his company.  Why?  Because it's unconstitutional to stop him.
> 
> I'm glad you are finally seeing conservative spin on what is and isn't constitutional.  Stop being a fool thinking the GOP cares about workers.  Trump could have run as a conservative Democrat but he chose to run as a liberal sounding Republican.  I ain't buying it either way.  Either way his tax breaks were going to heavily favor the rich.  And his immigration policies aren't fixing anything because all the illegals who were here before he got here are still here.  The only way to send them packing is if they can't find jobs.  Bye
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps his talk was all bullshit. Some of the news seems to indicate some increased seriousness at ICE.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll admit the GOP doesn't care about workers, if you do the same for the Dems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would not bullshit you.  Show up when I have jobs available and if you can do the job for what I can afford, you got it.
Click to expand...



I was referring to Trump. Libs have no ability to understand politically supporting someone, without thinking of them as nigh unto GODS.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but the country does *NOT *disagree with me.  We're all adults here, son.  So, let's be honest.  If a majority of people picked the president, they chose Hitlery Clinton.  She got the most votes.  So, you're wrong on that count.
> 
> On the second count, the United States Supreme Court has opined that *NO ONE *is obligated to obey an unconstitutional act.  That is THEIR logic, not mine.
> 
> Now then, the only authority the federal government has over foreigners is "_Congress shall have the power ...To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization_"  (Article 1  Section 8 of the Constitution) which they did only months after the ratification of the United States Constitution.  In that law, it provided that:
> 
> "_Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a *free white person*, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof_..."
> 
> *United States Congress, “An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization” (March 26, 1790)*
> 
> Despite this fact, foreigners came here to work and do business for *EIGHTY FIVE YEARS* before the United States Supreme Court stepped in and granted "_plenary powers_" to the federal government for everything related to foreigners in about 1875 - 1876.
> 
> I will give you $10,000 (TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS) in cash to cite one sentence from the Constitution wherein the framers gave the United States Supreme Court to grant to any other branch of government *ANY* power, much less plenary powers.  The United States Supreme Court legislated from the bench.  And you won't have the ethical wherewithal to admit that the high Court legislated from the bench which *disrespects the Rule of Law*.  You Trumpsters preach about it, but sure as Hell don't want to live by it.  Hypocrites, every one of you!
> 
> Adding insult to injury, Congress* ILLEGALLY* passed the 14th Amendment that you probably think is valid.  If not for that Amendment, you wouldn't have all those brown babies born in the U.S. you'd like to call a racist name, but cowardly chose "_anchor babies_," and that pretext proved to be false as parents are being deported and you're being left to pay welfare for their American born children.
> 
> To give you the coup de grace, the 14th Amendment gave foreigners (regardless of any liberal immigration status the Democrats thought up for you) the government right of liberty (sic.)  While doing that they *NULLIFIED* the Bill of Rights.  This link will explain it to you:
> 
> Stolen Rights
> 
> If I get shut down, the government will raise taxes somewhere to compensate for the loss.  And you'll pay them.  You can't win.  You're on the wrong side of the argument (you're actually arguing in favor of socialism)  and you're on the wrong side of history.  That above link will help you a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I'm curious (though I do not know why) how was the 14th passed illegally?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know but it can easily be amended again.
> 
> Let me give you an example.  In Missouri they are an open carry state.  In other words, you can carry your gun around with you as long as it's in plane sight.
> 
> Man charged with making terrorist threat for walking into Missouri Walmart with rifle, body armor
> 
> But not anymore.  Why?  Because people are taking their guns into walmart and shooting people.  So, the laws have to change.
> 
> Your slick arguments mean nothing to me.  Common sense matters to me most.
> 
> *Does anyone here on USMB agree with your position that illegal immigrants have rights?  I mean I know they have SOME rights but even those we can change if they are using those RIGHTS to fuck with our system.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "I disagree with you but I agree with you"
> 
> How in the world do I reply to that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That comment was supposed to be directed at Rockwell.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So which is it?  We're at statistical zero unemployment OR Trump's economic policies aren't all that and a bag of chips?  If you're at statistical unemployment, it's been proven you don't need a wall or limits on who employers hire.  If jobs are that scarce, you should have voted for Clinton.  Which is it?
Click to expand...

I voted for clinton


----------



## Crixus

sealybobo said:


> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"





First off, Republicans don't want to end illegal immigration. It's a massive cash cow for them. Republicans as a rule want illegals here for the same reason democrats do, a willing slabs class. I agree 100% though. If they were seriously trying to fix illegal immigration they would financially destroy anyone caught employing wet backs. But they don't. They do a dog and pony show raid, fine the company for chump change then all the wet back that were rounded up just go back to work the next day.


----------



## sealybobo

Crixus said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First off, Republicans don't want to end illegal immigration. It's a massive cash cow for them. Republicans as a rule want illegals here for the same reason democrats do, a willing slabs class. I agree 100% though. If they were seriously trying to fix illegal immigration they would financially destroy anyone caught employing wet backs. But they don't. They do a dog and pony show raid, fine the company for chump change then all the wet back that were rounded up just go back to work the next day.
Click to expand...


FOREST, Miss. – On Monday morning, the parking lot at the WIN Job Center here was full.

About 25 to 30 people showed up to apply for jobs at Koch Foods' nearby poultry processing plant. Of those, about an equal number were black, white or Latino.

"This is what you'd normally see here," said Dianne Bell, communications director for the Mississippi Department of Employment Security, of the job fair held between 9 and 11 a.m.

The company, one of four whose plants in small Mississippi towns were targeted by federal immigration officials on Wednesday, contacted the state employment agency the same day to request its help in hiring workers.

Kamerio Whitley, a resident of the nearby town of Morton, spoke to reporters after he left the building. He said there were several positions available at the plant, including forklift operators. 

Whitley said he applied for a job working at the plant's rehang table, where workers hang frozen chickens. 

The job starts at $12 an hour, which is decent pay for the area, Whitley said. 

"That's not bad to start, and it can always go up," he said. 

Joseph Butler said he, too, found the wages attractive. He also said he liked the fact that Koch Foods pays weekly. 

Bell said MDES puts all applicants through the federal government's E-Verify system.  All job applicants were required to have two forms of identification and a Social Security card. 

It remains unclear how so many workers without proper paperwork got jobs at the chicken plants in the first place.

NO ITS VERY CLEAR HOW 

Koch Foods, based in Park Ridge, Ill., is one of the largest poultry producers in the U.S. and employs about 13,000 people, with operations in Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Illinois, Ohio and Tennessee.

This is a win for American workers

Although none of the people who may have been responsible for hiring the unauthorized workers have been charged, both U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement and the U.S. Attorney's Office Southern District of Mississippi have said employers are part of their ongoing investigation.

“HSI’s (Homeland Security Investigations) worksite enforcement efforts are equally focused on aliens who unlawfully seek work in the U.S. as well as the employers who knowingly hire them,” HSI New Orleans Special Agent in Charge Jere Miles said in a U.S. Attorney's Office Southern District of Mississippi news release issued after the raids.

Koch Foods said in a statement Thursday that it screens employees through the federal government database E-Verify. Koch Foods spokesman Jim Gilliland also said the company relies on temporary workers vetted through a third-party service.

This is how Trump got away with hiring illegals.  He hired a third party service to do it so he personally couldn't be blamed.  Well then lets hang the third party temp agency that is fucking Americans.  If we can't get the CEO's of these corporations, lets lock up their hiring managers.  NOT.  I say Mr. Koch should be the one who takes responsibility.

Job fair after ICE raids: Here's who showed up for Koch Foods plant jobs


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but the country does *NOT *disagree with me.  We're all adults here, son.  So, let's be honest.  If a majority of people picked the president, they chose Hitlery Clinton.  She got the most votes.  So, you're wrong on that count.
> 
> On the second count, the United States Supreme Court has opined that *NO ONE *is obligated to obey an unconstitutional act.  That is THEIR logic, not mine.
> 
> Now then, the only authority the federal government has over foreigners is "_Congress shall have the power ...To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization_"  (Article 1  Section 8 of the Constitution) which they did only months after the ratification of the United States Constitution.  In that law, it provided that:
> 
> "_Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a *free white person*, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof_..."
> 
> *United States Congress, “An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization” (March 26, 1790)*
> 
> Despite this fact, foreigners came here to work and do business for *EIGHTY FIVE YEARS* before the United States Supreme Court stepped in and granted "_plenary powers_" to the federal government for everything related to foreigners in about 1875 - 1876.
> 
> I will give you $10,000 (TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS) in cash to cite one sentence from the Constitution wherein the framers gave the United States Supreme Court to grant to any other branch of government *ANY* power, much less plenary powers.  The United States Supreme Court legislated from the bench.  And you won't have the ethical wherewithal to admit that the high Court legislated from the bench which *disrespects the Rule of Law*.  You Trumpsters preach about it, but sure as Hell don't want to live by it.  Hypocrites, every one of you!
> 
> Adding insult to injury, Congress* ILLEGALLY* passed the 14th Amendment that you probably think is valid.  If not for that Amendment, you wouldn't have all those brown babies born in the U.S. you'd like to call a racist name, but cowardly chose "_anchor babies_," and that pretext proved to be false as parents are being deported and you're being left to pay welfare for their American born children.
> 
> To give you the coup de grace, the 14th Amendment gave foreigners (regardless of any liberal immigration status the Democrats thought up for you) the government right of liberty (sic.)  While doing that they *NULLIFIED* the Bill of Rights.  This link will explain it to you:
> 
> Stolen Rights
> 
> If I get shut down, the government will raise taxes somewhere to compensate for the loss.  And you'll pay them.  You can't win.  You're on the wrong side of the argument (you're actually arguing in favor of socialism)  and you're on the wrong side of history.  That above link will help you a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I'm curious (though I do not know why) how was the 14th passed illegally?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know but it can easily be amended again.
> 
> Let me give you an example.  In Missouri they are an open carry state.  In other words, you can carry your gun around with you as long as it's in plane sight.
> 
> Man charged with making terrorist threat for walking into Missouri Walmart with rifle, body armor
> 
> But not anymore.  Why?  Because people are taking their guns into walmart and shooting people.  So, the laws have to change.
> 
> Your slick arguments mean nothing to me.  Common sense matters to me most.
> 
> *Does anyone here on USMB agree with your position that illegal immigrants have rights?  I mean I know they have SOME rights but even those we can change if they are using those RIGHTS to fuck with our system.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "I disagree with you but I agree with you"
> 
> How in the world do I reply to that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That comment was supposed to be directed at Rockwell.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So which is it?  We're at statistical zero unemployment OR Trump's economic policies aren't all that and a bag of chips?  If you're at statistical unemployment, it's been proven you don't need a wall or limits on who employers hire.  If jobs are that scarce, you should have voted for Clinton.  Which is it?
Click to expand...


Yes, even illegal immigrants have some rights.  They don't have the right to stay here.  They can seek asylum but we don't have to give it to them.  

They also don't have the right to work here.  Same way I have some rights in Switzerland but I do not have the right to work there.  Or any other country in the world.  I have some rights in Germany too like the right to healthcare if I'm sick.  If I'm sick, they will take care of me.  But I can't work there if I'm not a citizen.  And I would have to apply for citizenship, which they can deny.

Do you think we have to let every immigrant who comes here in?  Of course you don't.

What you are trying to do is play fast and loose with the laws/rules/constitution.  You simply want to continue having access to cheap labor.  Sorry, not going to happen.  And from the sound of this story, the government might actually start going after employers who KNOWINGLY hire illegals.  You would lie if they caught you right?  You would say you didn't know?  Well Koch foods won't be doing that anymore.  They just had a job fair and 30 AMERICANS showed up for the jobs.  Hanging meat and driving forklifts.  Even an idiot like you could do these things.  

Job fair after ICE raids: Here's who showed up for Koch Foods plant jobs

It remains unclear how so many workers without proper paperwork got jobs at the chicken plants in the first place.

Although none of the people who may have been responsible for hiring the unauthorized workers have been charged, both U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement and the U.S. Attorney's Office Southern District of Mississippi have said employers are part of their ongoing investigation.

HSI’s (Homeland Security Investigations) worksite enforcement efforts are equally focused on aliens who unlawfully seek work in the U.S. as well as the employers who knowingly hire them,” HSI New Orleans Special Agent in Charge Jere Miles said in a U.S. Attorney's Office Southern District of Mississippi news release issued after the raids.

Koch Foods said in a statement Thursday that it screens employees through the federal government database E-Verify. Koch Foods spokesman Jim Gilliland also said the company relies on temporary workers vetted through a third-party service.  This is how they get away with it.  Koch didn't hire the illegals.  He hired the third party service who hired the illegals.  Trump did this too at Mara Lago.  Eventually they will come for you and I hope they lock you up.

Mississippi Department of Employment Security MDES puts all applicants through the federal government's E-Verify system.  All job applicants were required to have two forms of identification and a Social Security card. 

The raids detained 680 mostly Latino workers in what marked the largest workplace sting in at least a decade. Of those, about 300 were given future court dates and released, but they can't return to work.

A good day for American workers.  If only 30 people showed up to the job fair that means there are still 270 jobs open.  Anyone in America who is unemployed should apply for a job but demand $15 hr.  Currently this job only pays $12 hr.  If I were a deplorable blue collar worker I would apply but demand $15.  This Koch guy is worth $3 billion dollars.  How did he get so rich?  By hiring illegals.  Time to start paying American workers an American fucking wage.


----------



## sealybobo

Correll said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the crony court will let the illegals in.  It will make Correll think they are liberal but the reality is the corporations want these illegals flooding the job market.  But Correll will blame the "liberal" media and "liberal" supreme court.
> 
> This is how the rich are fucking America over and getting away with it.  They caused the Great Recession in 2008 and convinced guys like Correll that it was liberals that done it.  Well, now he knows he's being duped.  Maybe now he will realize he signed up for Trump University when he voted for Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've repeatedly agreed that the GOP share quite a bit of the responsibility for the immigration problems in this country.
> 
> 
> That being said, Trump was the candidate most credible in offering a change to the status quo.
> 
> 
> Who should we have supported instead of him, that would have given US anything better?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump is talking a good game I know why you fell for it.  I'm just telling you that his talk is all bullshit.  And if you do stop illegal immigration they will just open the doors and flood the market with legal immigrants.  And they will convince you we need them.  Do you want your social security?  We need more workers paying in.  Do you want 4% growth?  We need more bodies.
> 
> I won't agree with them I'll agree with you.  But still they will spin it in a way you will somehow blame me and not them.  It's illegal employers who are your problem and too many of them are just like this Rockwell character.
> 
> I am glad to see you are frustrated talking to a right wing nut job who can argue that shit doesn't stink.  And we are helpless in trying to stop illegals from working at his company.  Why?  Because it's unconstitutional to stop him.
> 
> I'm glad you are finally seeing conservative spin on what is and isn't constitutional.  Stop being a fool thinking the GOP cares about workers.  Trump could have run as a conservative Democrat but he chose to run as a liberal sounding Republican.  I ain't buying it either way.  Either way his tax breaks were going to heavily favor the rich.  And his immigration policies aren't fixing anything because all the illegals who were here before he got here are still here.  The only way to send them packing is if they can't find jobs.  Bye
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps his talk was all bullshit. Some of the news seems to indicate some increased seriousness at ICE.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll admit the GOP doesn't care about workers, if you do the same for the Dems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would not bullshit you.  Show up when I have jobs available and if you can do the job for what I can afford, you got it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I was referring to Trump. Libs have no ability to understand politically supporting someone, without thinking of them as nigh unto GODS.
Click to expand...


Did you see 30 Americans showed up for jobs at that Koch Food place the government raided.  300 illegals were let go so there are still 270 jobs available that pay $12 hr.  How is Mr. Koch going to find enough people to fill those 270 unfilled jobs now?


----------



## danielpalos

There is no actual immigration clause in our federal Constitution.  We should have no problem obtaining an "army group" of ready reserve labor with our naturalization clause.


----------



## sealybobo

danielpalos said:


> There is no actual immigration clause in our federal Constitution.  We should have no problem obtaining an "army group" of ready reserve labor with our naturalization clause.


Huh?


----------



## danielpalos

sealybobo said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no actual immigration clause in our federal Constitution.  We should have no problem obtaining an "army group" of ready reserve labor with our naturalization clause.
> 
> 
> 
> Huh?
Click to expand...

Show us the Express Immigration clause, right wingers, don't Imply it in your right wing fantasy.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I'm curious (though I do not know why) how was the 14th passed illegally?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know but it can easily be amended again.
> 
> Let me give you an example.  In Missouri they are an open carry state.  In other words, you can carry your gun around with you as long as it's in plane sight.
> 
> Man charged with making terrorist threat for walking into Missouri Walmart with rifle, body armor
> 
> But not anymore.  Why?  Because people are taking their guns into walmart and shooting people.  So, the laws have to change.
> 
> Your slick arguments mean nothing to me.  Common sense matters to me most.
> 
> *Does anyone here on USMB agree with your position that illegal immigrants have rights?  I mean I know they have SOME rights but even those we can change if they are using those RIGHTS to fuck with our system.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "I disagree with you but I agree with you"
> 
> How in the world do I reply to that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That comment was supposed to be directed at Rockwell.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So which is it?  We're at statistical zero unemployment OR Trump's economic policies aren't all that and a bag of chips?  If you're at statistical unemployment, it's been proven you don't need a wall or limits on who employers hire.  If jobs are that scarce, you should have voted for Clinton.  Which is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, even illegal immigrants have some rights.  They don't have the right to stay here.  They can seek asylum but we don't have to give it to them.
> 
> They also don't have the right to work here.  Same way I have some rights in Switzerland but I do not have the right to work there.  Or any other country in the world.  I have some rights in Germany too like the right to healthcare if I'm sick.  If I'm sick, they will take care of me.  But I can't work there if I'm not a citizen.  And I would have to apply for citizenship, which they can deny.
> 
> Do you think we have to let every immigrant who comes here in?  Of course you don't.
> 
> What you are trying to do is play fast and loose with the laws/rules/constitution.  You simply want to continue having access to cheap labor.  Sorry, not going to happen.  And from the sound of this story, the government might actually start going after employers who KNOWINGLY hire illegals.  You would lie if they caught you right?  You would say you didn't know?  Well Koch foods won't be doing that anymore.  They just had a job fair and 30 AMERICANS showed up for the jobs.  Hanging meat and driving forklifts.  Even an idiot like you could do these things.
> 
> Job fair after ICE raids: Here's who showed up for Koch Foods plant jobs
> 
> It remains unclear how so many workers without proper paperwork got jobs at the chicken plants in the first place.
> 
> Although none of the people who may have been responsible for hiring the unauthorized workers have been charged, both U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement and the U.S. Attorney's Office Southern District of Mississippi have said employers are part of their ongoing investigation.
> 
> HSI’s (Homeland Security Investigations) worksite enforcement efforts are equally focused on aliens who unlawfully seek work in the U.S. as well as the employers who knowingly hire them,” HSI New Orleans Special Agent in Charge Jere Miles said in a U.S. Attorney's Office Southern District of Mississippi news release issued after the raids.
> 
> Koch Foods said in a statement Thursday that it screens employees through the federal government database E-Verify. Koch Foods spokesman Jim Gilliland also said the company relies on temporary workers vetted through a third-party service.  This is how they get away with it.  Koch didn't hire the illegals.  He hired the third party service who hired the illegals.  Trump did this too at Mara Lago.  Eventually they will come for you and I hope they lock you up.
> 
> Mississippi Department of Employment Security MDES puts all applicants through the federal government's E-Verify system.  All job applicants were required to have two forms of identification and a Social Security card.
> 
> The raids detained 680 mostly Latino workers in what marked the largest workplace sting in at least a decade. Of those, about 300 were given future court dates and released, but they can't return to work.
> 
> A good day for American workers.  If only 30 people showed up to the job fair that means there are still 270 jobs open.  Anyone in America who is unemployed should apply for a job but demand $15 hr.  Currently this job only pays $12 hr.  If I were a deplorable blue collar worker I would apply but demand $15.  This Koch guy is worth $3 billion dollars.  How did he get so rich?  By hiring illegals.  Time to start paying American workers an American fucking wage.
Click to expand...


WTF???  I'm not lying about a damn thing.  I openly advertise and hire whomever I want.  I'm not playing fast and loose with a damn thing.  The government can pass as many laws as it wants, but the 14th Amendment guarantees the foreigner the Right to Life.  Now, follow me:

The Second Amendment protects the individual the Right to keep and bear Arms as an extension of your Right to Life.  Likewise, the 14th Amendment protects the foreigner's right (sic) to Life.  How in the Hell can you protect your Life if you can't work a job to feed yourself?

Again, foreigners working in the United States did without all that bullshit from the federal government until the late 1870s.  Only whites could become citizens, but non-whites came here to work.  The states controlled who could and could not come there to be guest workers.  Is there some reason that you cannot understand that the United States Supreme Court granted_ plenary powers_ to Congress over everything to do with foreigners?  Do you not understand I'm offering $10,000 dollars in cash to the first swinging Richard that can show us one sentence in the United States Constitution that gives the United States Supreme Court the *AUTHORITY* to bestow any power on another branch of government?

All the laws you're talking about are a result of that illegal power grab and they aren't worth the paper their printed on.  See, I'm not on the left, but if they knew HALF of what I know about this subject, they'd have won it years ago in court.  You liars talk about the Rule of Law, but when the government violates that, you ignore it if it benefits you.

I'm not paid by the government to screen people and I'm not a government agency.  I won't lose what I own trying to hire people that don't show up for the interview, much less the job. * NEITHER* will I pick up a phone and call a dumb ass and pay them $985 an hour for a skill set learned in under a year.  I'm not going bankrupt to make some other asshole rich when I can hire other people at a realistic wage.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know but it can easily be amended again.
> 
> Let me give you an example.  In Missouri they are an open carry state.  In other words, you can carry your gun around with you as long as it's in plane sight.
> 
> Man charged with making terrorist threat for walking into Missouri Walmart with rifle, body armor
> 
> But not anymore.  Why?  Because people are taking their guns into walmart and shooting people.  So, the laws have to change.
> 
> Your slick arguments mean nothing to me.  Common sense matters to me most.
> 
> *Does anyone here on USMB agree with your position that illegal immigrants have rights?  I mean I know they have SOME rights but even those we can change if they are using those RIGHTS to fuck with our system.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "I disagree with you but I agree with you"
> 
> How in the world do I reply to that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That comment was supposed to be directed at Rockwell.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So which is it?  We're at statistical zero unemployment OR Trump's economic policies aren't all that and a bag of chips?  If you're at statistical unemployment, it's been proven you don't need a wall or limits on who employers hire.  If jobs are that scarce, you should have voted for Clinton.  Which is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, even illegal immigrants have some rights.  They don't have the right to stay here.  They can seek asylum but we don't have to give it to them.
> 
> They also don't have the right to work here.  Same way I have some rights in Switzerland but I do not have the right to work there.  Or any other country in the world.  I have some rights in Germany too like the right to healthcare if I'm sick.  If I'm sick, they will take care of me.  But I can't work there if I'm not a citizen.  And I would have to apply for citizenship, which they can deny.
> 
> Do you think we have to let every immigrant who comes here in?  Of course you don't.
> 
> What you are trying to do is play fast and loose with the laws/rules/constitution.  You simply want to continue having access to cheap labor.  Sorry, not going to happen.  And from the sound of this story, the government might actually start going after employers who KNOWINGLY hire illegals.  You would lie if they caught you right?  You would say you didn't know?  Well Koch foods won't be doing that anymore.  They just had a job fair and 30 AMERICANS showed up for the jobs.  Hanging meat and driving forklifts.  Even an idiot like you could do these things.
> 
> Job fair after ICE raids: Here's who showed up for Koch Foods plant jobs
> 
> It remains unclear how so many workers without proper paperwork got jobs at the chicken plants in the first place.
> 
> Although none of the people who may have been responsible for hiring the unauthorized workers have been charged, both U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement and the U.S. Attorney's Office Southern District of Mississippi have said employers are part of their ongoing investigation.
> 
> HSI’s (Homeland Security Investigations) worksite enforcement efforts are equally focused on aliens who unlawfully seek work in the U.S. as well as the employers who knowingly hire them,” HSI New Orleans Special Agent in Charge Jere Miles said in a U.S. Attorney's Office Southern District of Mississippi news release issued after the raids.
> 
> Koch Foods said in a statement Thursday that it screens employees through the federal government database E-Verify. Koch Foods spokesman Jim Gilliland also said the company relies on temporary workers vetted through a third-party service.  This is how they get away with it.  Koch didn't hire the illegals.  He hired the third party service who hired the illegals.  Trump did this too at Mara Lago.  Eventually they will come for you and I hope they lock you up.
> 
> Mississippi Department of Employment Security MDES puts all applicants through the federal government's E-Verify system.  All job applicants were required to have two forms of identification and a Social Security card.
> 
> The raids detained 680 mostly Latino workers in what marked the largest workplace sting in at least a decade. Of those, about 300 were given future court dates and released, but they can't return to work.
> 
> A good day for American workers.  If only 30 people showed up to the job fair that means there are still 270 jobs open.  Anyone in America who is unemployed should apply for a job but demand $15 hr.  Currently this job only pays $12 hr.  If I were a deplorable blue collar worker I would apply but demand $15.  This Koch guy is worth $3 billion dollars.  How did he get so rich?  By hiring illegals.  Time to start paying American workers an American fucking wage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF???  I'm not lying about a damn thing.  I openly advertise and hire whomever I want.  I'm not playing fast and loose with a damn thing.  The government can pass as many laws as it wants, but the 14th Amendment guarantees the foreigner the Right to Life.  Now, follow me:
> 
> The Second Amendment protects the individual the Right to keep and bear Arms as an extension of your Right to Life.  Likewise, the 14th Amendment protects the foreigner's right (sic) to Life.  How in the Hell can you protect your Life if you can't work a job to feed yourself?
> 
> Again, foreigners working in the United States did without all that bullshit from the federal government until the late 1870s.  Only whites could become citizens, but non-whites came here to work.  The states controlled who could and could not come there to be guest workers.  Is there some reason that you cannot understand that the United States Supreme Court granted_ plenary powers_ to Congress over everything to do with foreigners?  Do you not understand I'm offering $10,000 dollars in cash to the first swinging Richard that can show us one sentence in the United States Constitution that gives the United States Supreme Court the *AUTHORITY* to bestow any power on another branch of government?
> 
> All the laws you're talking about are a result of that illegal power grab and they aren't worth the paper their printed on.  See, I'm not on the left, but if they knew HALF of what I know about this subject, they'd have won it years ago in court.  You liars talk about the Rule of Law, but when the government violates that, you ignore it if it benefits you.
> 
> I'm not paid by the government to screen people and I'm not a government agency.  I won't lose what I own trying to hire people that don't show up for the interview, much less the job. * NEITHER* will I pick up a phone and call a dumb ass and pay them $985 an hour for a skill set learned in under a year.  I'm not going bankrupt to make some other asshole rich when I can hire other people at a realistic wage.
Click to expand...


You sound just as nutty as the people who say the income tax is unconstitutional.  Maybe that's true but good luck convincing a jury.  Your arguments would be ignored in court.

You'll probably continue to get away with it being that you are a small business owner.  No one's going to catch you.  Just like me and my side business.  I make about $20,000 a year from it and I pay no taxes on any of that money.  So while I think you are a traitor, I guess you could say I'm unpatriotic too for not paying my fair share.  But then again, I'm sure Trump and his billionaire buddies aren't paying their fair share either so fuck em.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've repeatedly agreed that the GOP share quite a bit of the responsibility for the immigration problems in this country.
> 
> 
> That being said, Trump was the candidate most credible in offering a change to the status quo.
> 
> 
> Who should we have supported instead of him, that would have given US anything better?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump is talking a good game I know why you fell for it.  I'm just telling you that his talk is all bullshit.  And if you do stop illegal immigration they will just open the doors and flood the market with legal immigrants.  And they will convince you we need them.  Do you want your social security?  We need more workers paying in.  Do you want 4% growth?  We need more bodies.
> 
> I won't agree with them I'll agree with you.  But still they will spin it in a way you will somehow blame me and not them.  It's illegal employers who are your problem and too many of them are just like this Rockwell character.
> 
> I am glad to see you are frustrated talking to a right wing nut job who can argue that shit doesn't stink.  And we are helpless in trying to stop illegals from working at his company.  Why?  Because it's unconstitutional to stop him.
> 
> I'm glad you are finally seeing conservative spin on what is and isn't constitutional.  Stop being a fool thinking the GOP cares about workers.  Trump could have run as a conservative Democrat but he chose to run as a liberal sounding Republican.  I ain't buying it either way.  Either way his tax breaks were going to heavily favor the rich.  And his immigration policies aren't fixing anything because all the illegals who were here before he got here are still here.  The only way to send them packing is if they can't find jobs.  Bye
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps his talk was all bullshit. Some of the news seems to indicate some increased seriousness at ICE.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll admit the GOP doesn't care about workers, if you do the same for the Dems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would not bullshit you.  Show up when I have jobs available and if you can do the job for what I can afford, you got it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I was referring to Trump. Libs have no ability to understand politically supporting someone, without thinking of them as nigh unto GODS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you see 30 Americans showed up for jobs at that Koch Food place the government raided.  300 illegals were let go so there are still 270 jobs available that pay $12 hr.  How is Mr. Koch going to find enough people to fill those 270 unfilled jobs now?
Click to expand...


We have the same problem in Georgia.  One time a farmer advertised on the local paper; he listed jobs with the state employment service (which gave access to the job to every person drawing an unemployment check); he passed out flyers.  Of the 280  positions this guy offered, less than half enough people showed up.  FOUR Americans show up and two of them didn't last until noon.  It was on the evening news.  A newsman was there for the entire thing.


----------



## danielpalos

We should be making money on border policy by being faithful to our Commerce Clause not losing money on implied, right wing fantasy.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trump is talking a good game I know why you fell for it.  I'm just telling you that his talk is all bullshit.  And if you do stop illegal immigration they will just open the doors and flood the market with legal immigrants.  And they will convince you we need them.  Do you want your social security?  We need more workers paying in.  Do you want 4% growth?  We need more bodies.
> 
> I won't agree with them I'll agree with you.  But still they will spin it in a way you will somehow blame me and not them.  It's illegal employers who are your problem and too many of them are just like this Rockwell character.
> 
> I am glad to see you are frustrated talking to a right wing nut job who can argue that shit doesn't stink.  And we are helpless in trying to stop illegals from working at his company.  Why?  Because it's unconstitutional to stop him.
> 
> I'm glad you are finally seeing conservative spin on what is and isn't constitutional.  Stop being a fool thinking the GOP cares about workers.  Trump could have run as a conservative Democrat but he chose to run as a liberal sounding Republican.  I ain't buying it either way.  Either way his tax breaks were going to heavily favor the rich.  And his immigration policies aren't fixing anything because all the illegals who were here before he got here are still here.  The only way to send them packing is if they can't find jobs.  Bye
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps his talk was all bullshit. Some of the news seems to indicate some increased seriousness at ICE.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll admit the GOP doesn't care about workers, if you do the same for the Dems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would not bullshit you.  Show up when I have jobs available and if you can do the job for what I can afford, you got it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I was referring to Trump. Libs have no ability to understand politically supporting someone, without thinking of them as nigh unto GODS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you see 30 Americans showed up for jobs at that Koch Food place the government raided.  300 illegals were let go so there are still 270 jobs available that pay $12 hr.  How is Mr. Koch going to find enough people to fill those 270 unfilled jobs now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We have the same problem in Georgia.  One time a farmer advertised on the local paper; he listed jobs with the state employment service (which gave access to the job to every person drawing an unemployment check); he passed out flyers.  Of the 280  positions this guy offered, less than half enough people showed up.  FOUR Americans show up and two of them didn't last until noon.  It was on the evening news.  A newsman was there for the entire thing.
Click to expand...


To be honest, when the economy is good, which it is now, usually people stop caring about illegals.  But Trump made too good of an argument to blue collar workers.  He said it was illegals who were here illegally competing for jobs and bringing wages down.  That is/was true.  The only problem is all these white blue collar workers are still competing for these low paying blue collar jobs and the corporations don't want to pay more even though they say they can't find enough help.  They/You refuse to raise your wages.  You're just waiting it out.  You're waiting for the illegals to dig a hole under Trump's wall and start coming back.  LOL.


----------



## sealybobo

danielpalos said:


> We should be making money on border policy by being faithful to our Commerce Clause not losing money on implied, right wing fantasy.


Huh?  This is the second time you said this.  Please explain.


----------



## danielpalos

sealybobo said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> We should be making money on border policy by being faithful to our Commerce Clause not losing money on implied, right wing fantasy.
> 
> 
> 
> Huh?  This is the second time you said this.  Please explain.
Click to expand...

Our Constitution is our supreme law of the land not Any form of implied right wing bigotry. 

We should not  be losing money on border policy with our Express establishment clause for Naturalization, whenever the right wing has nothing but bigotry to justify their implied fantasy.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> "I disagree with you but I agree with you"
> 
> How in the world do I reply to that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That comment was supposed to be directed at Rockwell.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So which is it?  We're at statistical zero unemployment OR Trump's economic policies aren't all that and a bag of chips?  If you're at statistical unemployment, it's been proven you don't need a wall or limits on who employers hire.  If jobs are that scarce, you should have voted for Clinton.  Which is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, even illegal immigrants have some rights.  They don't have the right to stay here.  They can seek asylum but we don't have to give it to them.
> 
> They also don't have the right to work here.  Same way I have some rights in Switzerland but I do not have the right to work there.  Or any other country in the world.  I have some rights in Germany too like the right to healthcare if I'm sick.  If I'm sick, they will take care of me.  But I can't work there if I'm not a citizen.  And I would have to apply for citizenship, which they can deny.
> 
> Do you think we have to let every immigrant who comes here in?  Of course you don't.
> 
> What you are trying to do is play fast and loose with the laws/rules/constitution.  You simply want to continue having access to cheap labor.  Sorry, not going to happen.  And from the sound of this story, the government might actually start going after employers who KNOWINGLY hire illegals.  You would lie if they caught you right?  You would say you didn't know?  Well Koch foods won't be doing that anymore.  They just had a job fair and 30 AMERICANS showed up for the jobs.  Hanging meat and driving forklifts.  Even an idiot like you could do these things.
> 
> Job fair after ICE raids: Here's who showed up for Koch Foods plant jobs
> 
> It remains unclear how so many workers without proper paperwork got jobs at the chicken plants in the first place.
> 
> Although none of the people who may have been responsible for hiring the unauthorized workers have been charged, both U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement and the U.S. Attorney's Office Southern District of Mississippi have said employers are part of their ongoing investigation.
> 
> HSI’s (Homeland Security Investigations) worksite enforcement efforts are equally focused on aliens who unlawfully seek work in the U.S. as well as the employers who knowingly hire them,” HSI New Orleans Special Agent in Charge Jere Miles said in a U.S. Attorney's Office Southern District of Mississippi news release issued after the raids.
> 
> Koch Foods said in a statement Thursday that it screens employees through the federal government database E-Verify. Koch Foods spokesman Jim Gilliland also said the company relies on temporary workers vetted through a third-party service.  This is how they get away with it.  Koch didn't hire the illegals.  He hired the third party service who hired the illegals.  Trump did this too at Mara Lago.  Eventually they will come for you and I hope they lock you up.
> 
> Mississippi Department of Employment Security MDES puts all applicants through the federal government's E-Verify system.  All job applicants were required to have two forms of identification and a Social Security card.
> 
> The raids detained 680 mostly Latino workers in what marked the largest workplace sting in at least a decade. Of those, about 300 were given future court dates and released, but they can't return to work.
> 
> A good day for American workers.  If only 30 people showed up to the job fair that means there are still 270 jobs open.  Anyone in America who is unemployed should apply for a job but demand $15 hr.  Currently this job only pays $12 hr.  If I were a deplorable blue collar worker I would apply but demand $15.  This Koch guy is worth $3 billion dollars.  How did he get so rich?  By hiring illegals.  Time to start paying American workers an American fucking wage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF???  I'm not lying about a damn thing.  I openly advertise and hire whomever I want.  I'm not playing fast and loose with a damn thing.  The government can pass as many laws as it wants, but the 14th Amendment guarantees the foreigner the Right to Life.  Now, follow me:
> 
> The Second Amendment protects the individual the Right to keep and bear Arms as an extension of your Right to Life.  Likewise, the 14th Amendment protects the foreigner's right (sic) to Life.  How in the Hell can you protect your Life if you can't work a job to feed yourself?
> 
> Again, foreigners working in the United States did without all that bullshit from the federal government until the late 1870s.  Only whites could become citizens, but non-whites came here to work.  The states controlled who could and could not come there to be guest workers.  Is there some reason that you cannot understand that the United States Supreme Court granted_ plenary powers_ to Congress over everything to do with foreigners?  Do you not understand I'm offering $10,000 dollars in cash to the first swinging Richard that can show us one sentence in the United States Constitution that gives the United States Supreme Court the *AUTHORITY* to bestow any power on another branch of government?
> 
> All the laws you're talking about are a result of that illegal power grab and they aren't worth the paper their printed on.  See, I'm not on the left, but if they knew HALF of what I know about this subject, they'd have won it years ago in court.  You liars talk about the Rule of Law, but when the government violates that, you ignore it if it benefits you.
> 
> I'm not paid by the government to screen people and I'm not a government agency.  I won't lose what I own trying to hire people that don't show up for the interview, much less the job. * NEITHER* will I pick up a phone and call a dumb ass and pay them $985 an hour for a skill set learned in under a year.  I'm not going bankrupt to make some other asshole rich when I can hire other people at a realistic wage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sound just as nutty as the people who say the income tax is unconstitutional.  Maybe that's true but good luck convincing a jury.  Your arguments would be ignored in court.
> 
> You'll probably continue to get away with it being that you are a small business owner.  No one's going to catch you.  Just like me and my side business.  I make about $20,000 a year from it and I pay no taxes on any of that money.  So while I think you are a traitor, I guess you could say I'm unpatriotic too for not paying my fair share.  But then again, I'm sure Trump and his billionaire buddies aren't paying their fair share either so fuck em.
Click to expand...


You think I'm a traitor because I offer jobs and white Americans won't show up and do the job?  What kind of a fucking idiot are you?  The jobs are there.  Nobody is discriminating against Americans... Hell I give them the first shot at it.  

The best example I give people is the time a year or so ago I offered a job to a man that wanted $985 an hour to do.  I got a Mexican laborer to do it for $30 an hour.  When I offered the job, I was prepared to pay $60 an hour.  The skill set was so minor that a third worlder could do it!  Why pay a surgeon's wages and drive yourself into bankruptcy just because a white American wants to get rich off of you?  Where is the common sense in that?  You only prove that sense is not common.

And, yes, I know the income tax is unconstitutional.  My brother quit paying them over 30 years ago.  My father quit paying maybe 15 to 20 years before he died - and he was a millionaire.  He left his estate to drunks and thieves that he hung with and they all got their money.  For those  who want the facts, check this out before saying people are nutjobs:


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> We should be making money on border policy by being faithful to our Commerce Clause not losing money on implied, right wing fantasy.



What does that even mean???


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> That comment was supposed to be directed at Rockwell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So which is it?  We're at statistical zero unemployment OR Trump's economic policies aren't all that and a bag of chips?  If you're at statistical unemployment, it's been proven you don't need a wall or limits on who employers hire.  If jobs are that scarce, you should have voted for Clinton.  Which is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, even illegal immigrants have some rights.  They don't have the right to stay here.  They can seek asylum but we don't have to give it to them.
> 
> They also don't have the right to work here.  Same way I have some rights in Switzerland but I do not have the right to work there.  Or any other country in the world.  I have some rights in Germany too like the right to healthcare if I'm sick.  If I'm sick, they will take care of me.  But I can't work there if I'm not a citizen.  And I would have to apply for citizenship, which they can deny.
> 
> Do you think we have to let every immigrant who comes here in?  Of course you don't.
> 
> What you are trying to do is play fast and loose with the laws/rules/constitution.  You simply want to continue having access to cheap labor.  Sorry, not going to happen.  And from the sound of this story, the government might actually start going after employers who KNOWINGLY hire illegals.  You would lie if they caught you right?  You would say you didn't know?  Well Koch foods won't be doing that anymore.  They just had a job fair and 30 AMERICANS showed up for the jobs.  Hanging meat and driving forklifts.  Even an idiot like you could do these things.
> 
> Job fair after ICE raids: Here's who showed up for Koch Foods plant jobs
> 
> It remains unclear how so many workers without proper paperwork got jobs at the chicken plants in the first place.
> 
> Although none of the people who may have been responsible for hiring the unauthorized workers have been charged, both U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement and the U.S. Attorney's Office Southern District of Mississippi have said employers are part of their ongoing investigation.
> 
> HSI’s (Homeland Security Investigations) worksite enforcement efforts are equally focused on aliens who unlawfully seek work in the U.S. as well as the employers who knowingly hire them,” HSI New Orleans Special Agent in Charge Jere Miles said in a U.S. Attorney's Office Southern District of Mississippi news release issued after the raids.
> 
> Koch Foods said in a statement Thursday that it screens employees through the federal government database E-Verify. Koch Foods spokesman Jim Gilliland also said the company relies on temporary workers vetted through a third-party service.  This is how they get away with it.  Koch didn't hire the illegals.  He hired the third party service who hired the illegals.  Trump did this too at Mara Lago.  Eventually they will come for you and I hope they lock you up.
> 
> Mississippi Department of Employment Security MDES puts all applicants through the federal government's E-Verify system.  All job applicants were required to have two forms of identification and a Social Security card.
> 
> The raids detained 680 mostly Latino workers in what marked the largest workplace sting in at least a decade. Of those, about 300 were given future court dates and released, but they can't return to work.
> 
> A good day for American workers.  If only 30 people showed up to the job fair that means there are still 270 jobs open.  Anyone in America who is unemployed should apply for a job but demand $15 hr.  Currently this job only pays $12 hr.  If I were a deplorable blue collar worker I would apply but demand $15.  This Koch guy is worth $3 billion dollars.  How did he get so rich?  By hiring illegals.  Time to start paying American workers an American fucking wage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF???  I'm not lying about a damn thing.  I openly advertise and hire whomever I want.  I'm not playing fast and loose with a damn thing.  The government can pass as many laws as it wants, but the 14th Amendment guarantees the foreigner the Right to Life.  Now, follow me:
> 
> The Second Amendment protects the individual the Right to keep and bear Arms as an extension of your Right to Life.  Likewise, the 14th Amendment protects the foreigner's right (sic) to Life.  How in the Hell can you protect your Life if you can't work a job to feed yourself?
> 
> Again, foreigners working in the United States did without all that bullshit from the federal government until the late 1870s.  Only whites could become citizens, but non-whites came here to work.  The states controlled who could and could not come there to be guest workers.  Is there some reason that you cannot understand that the United States Supreme Court granted_ plenary powers_ to Congress over everything to do with foreigners?  Do you not understand I'm offering $10,000 dollars in cash to the first swinging Richard that can show us one sentence in the United States Constitution that gives the United States Supreme Court the *AUTHORITY* to bestow any power on another branch of government?
> 
> All the laws you're talking about are a result of that illegal power grab and they aren't worth the paper their printed on.  See, I'm not on the left, but if they knew HALF of what I know about this subject, they'd have won it years ago in court.  You liars talk about the Rule of Law, but when the government violates that, you ignore it if it benefits you.
> 
> I'm not paid by the government to screen people and I'm not a government agency.  I won't lose what I own trying to hire people that don't show up for the interview, much less the job. * NEITHER* will I pick up a phone and call a dumb ass and pay them $985 an hour for a skill set learned in under a year.  I'm not going bankrupt to make some other asshole rich when I can hire other people at a realistic wage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sound just as nutty as the people who say the income tax is unconstitutional.  Maybe that's true but good luck convincing a jury.  Your arguments would be ignored in court.
> 
> You'll probably continue to get away with it being that you are a small business owner.  No one's going to catch you.  Just like me and my side business.  I make about $20,000 a year from it and I pay no taxes on any of that money.  So while I think you are a traitor, I guess you could say I'm unpatriotic too for not paying my fair share.  But then again, I'm sure Trump and his billionaire buddies aren't paying their fair share either so fuck em.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You think I'm a traitor because I offer jobs and white Americans won't show up and do the job?  What kind of a fucking idiot are you?  The jobs are there.  Nobody is discriminating against Americans... Hell I give them the first shot at it.
> 
> The best example I give people is the time a year or so ago I offered a job to a man that wanted $985 an hour to do.  I got a Mexican laborer to do it for $30 an hour.  When I offered the job, I was prepared to pay $60 an hour.  The skill set was so minor that a third worlder could do it!  Why pay a surgeon's wages and drive yourself into bankruptcy just because a white American wants to get rich off of you?  Where is the common sense in that?  You only prove that sense is not common.
> 
> And, yes, I know the income tax is unconstitutional.  My brother quit paying them over 30 years ago.  My father quit paying maybe 15 to 20 years before he died - and he was a millionaire.  He left his estate to drunks and thieves that he hung with and they all got their money.  For those  who want the facts, check this out before saying people are nutjobs:
Click to expand...


I agree with you on the income tax.  

But you seem to be missing an important part of the equation.  That illegal shouldn't be an option for you.  And you should be punished for using that option.  If you can't find an American to do the job then put in for a HB1 visa.  Without rules there is chaos.  And that's what we have right now.

You know where they don't have any rules that you business owners have to follow?  Mexico.  You would be a great employer in Mexico.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps his talk was all bullshit. Some of the news seems to indicate some increased seriousness at ICE.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll admit the GOP doesn't care about workers, if you do the same for the Dems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would not bullshit you.  Show up when I have jobs available and if you can do the job for what I can afford, you got it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I was referring to Trump. Libs have no ability to understand politically supporting someone, without thinking of them as nigh unto GODS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you see 30 Americans showed up for jobs at that Koch Food place the government raided.  300 illegals were let go so there are still 270 jobs available that pay $12 hr.  How is Mr. Koch going to find enough people to fill those 270 unfilled jobs now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We have the same problem in Georgia.  One time a farmer advertised on the local paper; he listed jobs with the state employment service (which gave access to the job to every person drawing an unemployment check); he passed out flyers.  Of the 280  positions this guy offered, less than half enough people showed up.  FOUR Americans show up and two of them didn't last until noon.  It was on the evening news.  A newsman was there for the entire thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To be honest, when the economy is good, which it is now, usually people stop caring about illegals.  But Trump made too good of an argument to blue collar workers.  He said it was illegals who were here illegally competing for jobs and bringing wages down.  That is/was true.  The only problem is all these white blue collar workers are still competing for these low paying blue collar jobs and the corporations don't want to pay more even though they say they can't find enough help.  They/You refuse to raise your wages.  You're just waiting it out.  You're waiting for the illegals to dig a hole under Trump's wall and start coming back.  LOL.
Click to expand...


Trump did not make any kind of case.  All Donald Trump did was to parrot the Democrats party line message.  He conned rednecks with low IQs and exposed how easily duped the average white American really is.  He gave you National Socialist _"solutions_" he got from a white supremacist.  Proof?  Figure it out:



The people who vote for Democrats are idiots.  That is a given.  If, for instance, what you think were true why would the bulk of blue collar workers still be voting for the Ds given that above history lesson?

There is NO proof that foreign labor drives down wages.  When America had  conservative economists (Nobel Prize winners at that) holding a similar view as mine, they were the good guys:

Free to Choose (Milton Friedman, 1980) – The Tyranny of Control

Classically Liberal: What Milton Friedman really said about immigration.

Anti-immigrants quote Friedman up to a certain point.  The second link continues where the anti-immigrant argument leaves off.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> We should be making money on border policy by being faithful to our Commerce Clause not losing money on implied, right wing fantasy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does that even mean???
Click to expand...

it means you are simply clueless and Causeless.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> So which is it?  We're at statistical zero unemployment OR Trump's economic policies aren't all that and a bag of chips?  If you're at statistical unemployment, it's been proven you don't need a wall or limits on who employers hire.  If jobs are that scarce, you should have voted for Clinton.  Which is it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, even illegal immigrants have some rights.  They don't have the right to stay here.  They can seek asylum but we don't have to give it to them.
> 
> They also don't have the right to work here.  Same way I have some rights in Switzerland but I do not have the right to work there.  Or any other country in the world.  I have some rights in Germany too like the right to healthcare if I'm sick.  If I'm sick, they will take care of me.  But I can't work there if I'm not a citizen.  And I would have to apply for citizenship, which they can deny.
> 
> Do you think we have to let every immigrant who comes here in?  Of course you don't.
> 
> What you are trying to do is play fast and loose with the laws/rules/constitution.  You simply want to continue having access to cheap labor.  Sorry, not going to happen.  And from the sound of this story, the government might actually start going after employers who KNOWINGLY hire illegals.  You would lie if they caught you right?  You would say you didn't know?  Well Koch foods won't be doing that anymore.  They just had a job fair and 30 AMERICANS showed up for the jobs.  Hanging meat and driving forklifts.  Even an idiot like you could do these things.
> 
> Job fair after ICE raids: Here's who showed up for Koch Foods plant jobs
> 
> It remains unclear how so many workers without proper paperwork got jobs at the chicken plants in the first place.
> 
> Although none of the people who may have been responsible for hiring the unauthorized workers have been charged, both U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement and the U.S. Attorney's Office Southern District of Mississippi have said employers are part of their ongoing investigation.
> 
> HSI’s (Homeland Security Investigations) worksite enforcement efforts are equally focused on aliens who unlawfully seek work in the U.S. as well as the employers who knowingly hire them,” HSI New Orleans Special Agent in Charge Jere Miles said in a U.S. Attorney's Office Southern District of Mississippi news release issued after the raids.
> 
> Koch Foods said in a statement Thursday that it screens employees through the federal government database E-Verify. Koch Foods spokesman Jim Gilliland also said the company relies on temporary workers vetted through a third-party service.  This is how they get away with it.  Koch didn't hire the illegals.  He hired the third party service who hired the illegals.  Trump did this too at Mara Lago.  Eventually they will come for you and I hope they lock you up.
> 
> Mississippi Department of Employment Security MDES puts all applicants through the federal government's E-Verify system.  All job applicants were required to have two forms of identification and a Social Security card.
> 
> The raids detained 680 mostly Latino workers in what marked the largest workplace sting in at least a decade. Of those, about 300 were given future court dates and released, but they can't return to work.
> 
> A good day for American workers.  If only 30 people showed up to the job fair that means there are still 270 jobs open.  Anyone in America who is unemployed should apply for a job but demand $15 hr.  Currently this job only pays $12 hr.  If I were a deplorable blue collar worker I would apply but demand $15.  This Koch guy is worth $3 billion dollars.  How did he get so rich?  By hiring illegals.  Time to start paying American workers an American fucking wage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF???  I'm not lying about a damn thing.  I openly advertise and hire whomever I want.  I'm not playing fast and loose with a damn thing.  The government can pass as many laws as it wants, but the 14th Amendment guarantees the foreigner the Right to Life.  Now, follow me:
> 
> The Second Amendment protects the individual the Right to keep and bear Arms as an extension of your Right to Life.  Likewise, the 14th Amendment protects the foreigner's right (sic) to Life.  How in the Hell can you protect your Life if you can't work a job to feed yourself?
> 
> Again, foreigners working in the United States did without all that bullshit from the federal government until the late 1870s.  Only whites could become citizens, but non-whites came here to work.  The states controlled who could and could not come there to be guest workers.  Is there some reason that you cannot understand that the United States Supreme Court granted_ plenary powers_ to Congress over everything to do with foreigners?  Do you not understand I'm offering $10,000 dollars in cash to the first swinging Richard that can show us one sentence in the United States Constitution that gives the United States Supreme Court the *AUTHORITY* to bestow any power on another branch of government?
> 
> All the laws you're talking about are a result of that illegal power grab and they aren't worth the paper their printed on.  See, I'm not on the left, but if they knew HALF of what I know about this subject, they'd have won it years ago in court.  You liars talk about the Rule of Law, but when the government violates that, you ignore it if it benefits you.
> 
> I'm not paid by the government to screen people and I'm not a government agency.  I won't lose what I own trying to hire people that don't show up for the interview, much less the job. * NEITHER* will I pick up a phone and call a dumb ass and pay them $985 an hour for a skill set learned in under a year.  I'm not going bankrupt to make some other asshole rich when I can hire other people at a realistic wage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sound just as nutty as the people who say the income tax is unconstitutional.  Maybe that's true but good luck convincing a jury.  Your arguments would be ignored in court.
> 
> You'll probably continue to get away with it being that you are a small business owner.  No one's going to catch you.  Just like me and my side business.  I make about $20,000 a year from it and I pay no taxes on any of that money.  So while I think you are a traitor, I guess you could say I'm unpatriotic too for not paying my fair share.  But then again, I'm sure Trump and his billionaire buddies aren't paying their fair share either so fuck em.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You think I'm a traitor because I offer jobs and white Americans won't show up and do the job?  What kind of a fucking idiot are you?  The jobs are there.  Nobody is discriminating against Americans... Hell I give them the first shot at it.
> 
> The best example I give people is the time a year or so ago I offered a job to a man that wanted $985 an hour to do.  I got a Mexican laborer to do it for $30 an hour.  When I offered the job, I was prepared to pay $60 an hour.  The skill set was so minor that a third worlder could do it!  Why pay a surgeon's wages and drive yourself into bankruptcy just because a white American wants to get rich off of you?  Where is the common sense in that?  You only prove that sense is not common.
> 
> And, yes, I know the income tax is unconstitutional.  My brother quit paying them over 30 years ago.  My father quit paying maybe 15 to 20 years before he died - and he was a millionaire.  He left his estate to drunks and thieves that he hung with and they all got their money.  For those  who want the facts, check this out before saying people are nutjobs:
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree with you on the income tax.
> 
> But you seem to be missing an important part of the equation.  That illegal shouldn't be an option for you.  And you should be punished for using that option.  If you can't find an American to do the job then put in for a HB1 visa.  Without rules there is chaos.  And that's what we have right now.
> 
> You know where they don't have any rules that you business owners have to follow?  Mexico.  You would be a great employer in Mexico.
Click to expand...


*YOU* miss the point.  It was the Democrats that came up with this class warfare nonsense.  We let half a million people come in to be temporary workers and a million can become citizens.  I hope you're getting kissed by the Democrats because you're sure as Hell being screwed.

The leadership of the Democrats can change gears at a moment's notice and you'll reverse what you're thinking.  Their deadheads will go right along with them.  What do you suppose kept the blue collar guys from changing parties when Trump took up Clinton's fight?

Just because the Democrats enact a law does not mean it meets constitutional muster.  Right now, the objective is to get the whites to relinquish the balance of their Rights, disarm and make America a *POLICE STATE*.  You were played by the politicians.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> We should be making money on border policy by being faithful to our Commerce Clause not losing money on implied, right wing fantasy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does that even mean???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it means you are simply clueless and Causeless.
Click to expand...


Just because you are an idiot does not make me clueless or causeless.  You are such a simpleton, you call me right wing and you've never had enough common sense to ASK what my cause is.  Now, I wouldn't even share that with you without an apology.

I can just laugh my ass off at you for being so smug about your stupidity, thinking you have something beneficial to say.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> We should be making money on border policy by being faithful to our Commerce Clause not losing money on implied, right wing fantasy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does that even mean???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it means you are simply clueless and Causeless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just because you are an idiot does not make me clueless or causeless.  You are such a simpleton, you call me right wing and you've never had enough common sense to ASK what my cause is.  Now, I wouldn't even share that with you without an apology.
> 
> I can just laugh my ass off at you for being so smug about your stupidity, thinking you have something beneficial to say.
Click to expand...

only the incompetent, say that.


----------



## Correll

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've repeatedly agreed that the GOP share quite a bit of the responsibility for the immigration problems in this country.
> 
> 
> That being said, Trump was the candidate most credible in offering a change to the status quo.
> 
> 
> Who should we have supported instead of him, that would have given US anything better?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump is talking a good game I know why you fell for it.  I'm just telling you that his talk is all bullshit.  And if you do stop illegal immigration they will just open the doors and flood the market with legal immigrants.  And they will convince you we need them.  Do you want your social security?  We need more workers paying in.  Do you want 4% growth?  We need more bodies.
> 
> I won't agree with them I'll agree with you.  But still they will spin it in a way you will somehow blame me and not them.  It's illegal employers who are your problem and too many of them are just like this Rockwell character.
> 
> I am glad to see you are frustrated talking to a right wing nut job who can argue that shit doesn't stink.  And we are helpless in trying to stop illegals from working at his company.  Why?  Because it's unconstitutional to stop him.
> 
> I'm glad you are finally seeing conservative spin on what is and isn't constitutional.  Stop being a fool thinking the GOP cares about workers.  Trump could have run as a conservative Democrat but he chose to run as a liberal sounding Republican.  I ain't buying it either way.  Either way his tax breaks were going to heavily favor the rich.  And his immigration policies aren't fixing anything because all the illegals who were here before he got here are still here.  The only way to send them packing is if they can't find jobs.  Bye
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps his talk was all bullshit. Some of the news seems to indicate some increased seriousness at ICE.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll admit the GOP doesn't care about workers, if you do the same for the Dems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would not bullshit you.  Show up when I have jobs available and if you can do the job for what I can afford, you got it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I was referring to Trump. Libs have no ability to understand politically supporting someone, without thinking of them as nigh unto GODS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you see 30 Americans showed up for jobs at that Koch Food place the government raided.  300 illegals were let go so there are still 270 jobs available that pay $12 hr.  How is Mr. Koch going to find enough people to fill those 270 unfilled jobs now?
Click to expand...



Eventually, if they jobs stay unfilled, he will have to consider radical solutions. LIke raising wages.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> We should be making money on border policy by being faithful to our Commerce Clause not losing money on implied, right wing fantasy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does that even mean???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it means you are simply clueless and Causeless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just because you are an idiot does not make me clueless or causeless.  You are such a simpleton, you call me right wing and you've never had enough common sense to ASK what my cause is.  Now, I wouldn't even share that with you without an apology.
> 
> I can just laugh my ass off at you for being so smug about your stupidity, thinking you have something beneficial to say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> only the incompetent, say that.
Click to expand...


You're a legend in your own mind.  You need some new material.  You don't hold a monopoly on understanding.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> We should be making money on border policy by being faithful to our Commerce Clause not losing money on implied, right wing fantasy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does that even mean???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it means you are simply clueless and Causeless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just because you are an idiot does not make me clueless or causeless.  You are such a simpleton, you call me right wing and you've never had enough common sense to ASK what my cause is.  Now, I wouldn't even share that with you without an apology.
> 
> I can just laugh my ass off at you for being so smug about your stupidity, thinking you have something beneficial to say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> only the incompetent, say that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a legend in your own mind.  You need some new material.  You don't hold a monopoly on understanding.
Click to expand...

I cited our California State Constitution a few posts back.  You still have nothing but fallacy instead of Any valid arguments.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would not bullshit you.  Show up when I have jobs available and if you can do the job for what I can afford, you got it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was referring to Trump. Libs have no ability to understand politically supporting someone, without thinking of them as nigh unto GODS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you see 30 Americans showed up for jobs at that Koch Food place the government raided.  300 illegals were let go so there are still 270 jobs available that pay $12 hr.  How is Mr. Koch going to find enough people to fill those 270 unfilled jobs now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We have the same problem in Georgia.  One time a farmer advertised on the local paper; he listed jobs with the state employment service (which gave access to the job to every person drawing an unemployment check); he passed out flyers.  Of the 280  positions this guy offered, less than half enough people showed up.  FOUR Americans show up and two of them didn't last until noon.  It was on the evening news.  A newsman was there for the entire thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To be honest, when the economy is good, which it is now, usually people stop caring about illegals.  But Trump made too good of an argument to blue collar workers.  He said it was illegals who were here illegally competing for jobs and bringing wages down.  That is/was true.  The only problem is all these white blue collar workers are still competing for these low paying blue collar jobs and the corporations don't want to pay more even though they say they can't find enough help.  They/You refuse to raise your wages.  You're just waiting it out.  You're waiting for the illegals to dig a hole under Trump's wall and start coming back.  LOL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump did not make any kind of case.  All Donald Trump did was to parrot the Democrats party line message.  He conned rednecks with low IQs and exposed how easily duped the average white American really is.  He gave you National Socialist _"solutions_" he got from a white supremacist.  Proof?  Figure it out:
> 
> 
> 
> The people who vote for Democrats are idiots.  That is a given.  If, for instance, what you think were true why would the bulk of blue collar workers still be voting for the Ds given that above history lesson?
> 
> There is NO proof that foreign labor drives down wages.  When America had  conservative economists (Nobel Prize winners at that) holding a similar view as mine, they were the good guys:
> 
> Free to Choose (Milton Friedman, 1980) – The Tyranny of Control
> 
> Classically Liberal: What Milton Friedman really said about immigration.
> 
> Anti-immigrants quote Friedman up to a certain point.  The second link continues where the anti-immigrant argument leaves off.
Click to expand...


Because D's are the lesser of two evils when it comes to working class Americans.  I'm not going to go dig up all the facts that prove this.  It's obvious.  Oh and by the way, the middle class was BOOMING when Clinton was president.  The middle class struggled under Bush.  And I follow politics pretty close to know Bush's policies really fucked the middle class hard.

And please stop telling us laborers that the GOP is the better choice for us.  YOU are a business owner.  YOU sound like you are rich.  So of course you are going to try to con us into believing the party you like best is the party that we should like best.  The fact is, over the past few decades the rich have gotten richer and the middle class is shrinking.  And you are right, Trump conned stupid white voters into thinking he was going to MAGA.  That's a riot huh?

The funny thing is, I'm doing great under the Republican way.  Since 2015 I've seen my pay go from $40k when I started to $90K last year.  But the rest of the people at my company are still making what they were making in 2015.  Of course I quadrupled my companies aftermarket sales so I deserved the raises but the point is, Democrats would say as long as the company is making good profits, every employee should get at least a cost of living raise every year.  That's the liberal way.  The conservative way says let them work for a decade without raises.  And that's where Americans are.  If they didn't lose a good job and have to take a shittier one, they're stuck making the same amount they made 10 years ago.  They were barely making it then and are just getting by now.  And none of them are saving enough for retirement.  I am.

And before you go thinking I lied when I said I made 6 figures, I was counting my $20K a year tax free side gig.  $90K plus $20K is 6 figures.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> We should be making money on border policy by being faithful to our Commerce Clause not losing money on implied, right wing fantasy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does that even mean???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it means you are simply clueless and Causeless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just because you are an idiot does not make me clueless or causeless.  You are such a simpleton, you call me right wing and you've never had enough common sense to ASK what my cause is.  Now, I wouldn't even share that with you without an apology.
> 
> I can just laugh my ass off at you for being so smug about your stupidity, thinking you have something beneficial to say.
Click to expand...

You are one of those freedom to fascism guys.  Basically a libertarian.  Libertarians are just the Republicans retarded cousins.  In some ways you are better than Republicans but in most ways you are worse.


----------



## sealybobo

Walt said:


> Sealybobo, I agree that the repubs, do not help the situation at all with their hiring of illegals. However I also see that the majority, if not all, mayors of sanctuary cities are dems { I cannot think of a mayor who is a repub doing this}. Also dems also own business and hire illegals. So what we get is a bunch of bloviating rhetoric from both sides while the problem continues. All I can think of when it comes to our politicans "talking" about solving problems is Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles pounding his desk saying "we have to protect our phoney baloney jobs gentelmen". Alot of talk, while things continue to deteroriate and nothing really worth while gets accomplished. IMHO.



Can you do me a favor?  Please tell me if any of the 6 cities in Mississippi that were raided by ICE last week are sanctuary cities.  

US Attorney for the Southern District of Mississippi Mike Hurst told reporters the arrests took place at seven sites in six different cities in Mississippi on Wednesday. The raids, he said, are "believed to be the largest single-state immigration enforcement operation in our nation's history."

Targeted in Mississippi immigration raids, poultry company holds job fair just down the road - CNN

I'm willing to be $100 not one of those cities is a sanctuary city.  So just remember sanctuary cities is just another bad right wing talking point.  

Start worrying about sanctuary companies.  They're in every red state in America.  They are the ones hurting white blue collar Americans.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does that even mean???
> 
> 
> 
> it means you are simply clueless and Causeless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just because you are an idiot does not make me clueless or causeless.  You are such a simpleton, you call me right wing and you've never had enough common sense to ASK what my cause is.  Now, I wouldn't even share that with you without an apology.
> 
> I can just laugh my ass off at you for being so smug about your stupidity, thinking you have something beneficial to say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> only the incompetent, say that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a legend in your own mind.  You need some new material.  You don't hold a monopoly on understanding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I cited our California State Constitution a few posts back.  You still have nothing but fallacy instead of Any valid arguments.
Click to expand...


You've never quoted anything and California doesn't apply to me.  If you told a judge that his rulings were fallacy, he'd probably tell you that you were in contempt of court.  So, you know what I think about your idiotic bullshit.  BTW, you need some new material.


----------



## deanrd

Seems like when you look at Republican kids today they’re all either fat or they just want to go out and shoot guns and they’re always getting into fights. They don’t have any education. They can’t get jobs or they live in mom’s basement. 

 So the studies have shown that the children of immigrants that come here are like the most productive members of society. 
 Seems like they actually want to go out and get an education and start companies and stuff.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was referring to Trump. Libs have no ability to understand politically supporting someone, without thinking of them as nigh unto GODS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you see 30 Americans showed up for jobs at that Koch Food place the government raided.  300 illegals were let go so there are still 270 jobs available that pay $12 hr.  How is Mr. Koch going to find enough people to fill those 270 unfilled jobs now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We have the same problem in Georgia.  One time a farmer advertised on the local paper; he listed jobs with the state employment service (which gave access to the job to every person drawing an unemployment check); he passed out flyers.  Of the 280  positions this guy offered, less than half enough people showed up.  FOUR Americans show up and two of them didn't last until noon.  It was on the evening news.  A newsman was there for the entire thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To be honest, when the economy is good, which it is now, usually people stop caring about illegals.  But Trump made too good of an argument to blue collar workers.  He said it was illegals who were here illegally competing for jobs and bringing wages down.  That is/was true.  The only problem is all these white blue collar workers are still competing for these low paying blue collar jobs and the corporations don't want to pay more even though they say they can't find enough help.  They/You refuse to raise your wages.  You're just waiting it out.  You're waiting for the illegals to dig a hole under Trump's wall and start coming back.  LOL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump did not make any kind of case.  All Donald Trump did was to parrot the Democrats party line message.  He conned rednecks with low IQs and exposed how easily duped the average white American really is.  He gave you National Socialist _"solutions_" he got from a white supremacist.  Proof?  Figure it out:
> 
> 
> 
> The people who vote for Democrats are idiots.  That is a given.  If, for instance, what you think were true why would the bulk of blue collar workers still be voting for the Ds given that above history lesson?
> 
> There is NO proof that foreign labor drives down wages.  When America had  conservative economists (Nobel Prize winners at that) holding a similar view as mine, they were the good guys:
> 
> Free to Choose (Milton Friedman, 1980) – The Tyranny of Control
> 
> Classically Liberal: What Milton Friedman really said about immigration.
> 
> Anti-immigrants quote Friedman up to a certain point.  The second link continues where the anti-immigrant argument leaves off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because D's are the lesser of two evils when it comes to working class Americans.  I'm not going to go dig up all the facts that prove this.  It's obvious.  Oh and by the way, the middle class was BOOMING when Clinton was president.  The middle class struggled under Bush.  And I follow politics pretty close to know Bush's policies really fucked the middle class hard.
> 
> And please stop telling us laborers that the GOP is the better choice for us.  YOU are a business owner.  YOU sound like you are rich.  So of course you are going to try to con us into believing the party you like best is the party that we should like best.  The fact is, over the past few decades the rich have gotten richer and the middle class is shrinking.  And you are right, Trump conned stupid white voters into thinking he was going to MAGA.  That's a riot huh?
> 
> The funny thing is, I'm doing great under the Republican way.  Since 2015 I've seen my pay go from $40k when I started to $90K last year.  But the rest of the people at my company are still making what they were making in 2015.  Of course I quadrupled my companies aftermarket sales so I deserved the raises but the point is, Democrats would say as long as the company is making good profits, every employee should get at least a cost of living raise every year.  That's the liberal way.  The conservative way says let them work for a decade without raises.  And that's where Americans are.  If they didn't lose a good job and have to take a shittier one, they're stuck making the same amount they made 10 years ago.  They were barely making it then and are just getting by now.  And none of them are saving enough for retirement.  I am.
> 
> And before you go thinking I lied when I said I made 6 figures, I was counting my $20K a year tax free side gig.  $90K plus $20K is 6 figures.
Click to expand...


You are on here too many hours to be making serious money.  I'm not rich by any metric unless you want to compare me to someone in the third world.  I hire a lot of handymen for gigs.  Sometimes they make more per hour than I make.  My house and car are paid for, but then again, I'm driving a 2007 Toyota that I bought when it was new.  

I pay people a HELL of a lot more than the Bubba dude with his 6 mpg new dual wheelie submitting "_proposals_" for replacing an overflow valve (with a customer supplied valve) at $240  (a fifteen minute job that a monkey with a pipe wrench could do.)  He pays his help $15 an hour unless they have a specific skill set.  I pay $20 an hour.  WTF more do you think I should be doing?  I'm too close to being able to retire to stick money into a full blown operation and hire master plumbers.  But, I will give one a gig for $80 an hour.  

I'm not trying to tell anyone how to vote.  I voted for Trump, but admit it was a mistake that WILL NOT be repeated.  The lesser of two evils is still evil.  But, my word to you is that any law that infringes on my *unalienable* Rights is totally ignored.


----------



## deanrd

Look where the report came from. The national academies of science medicine and engineering. 

 Republicans don’t believe in science, they don’t want people to have healthcare, and they certainly don’t appreciate engineering. 
 So report like that isn’t going to mean diddly squat to Republicans.


----------



## deanrd

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you see 30 Americans showed up for jobs at that Koch Food place the government raided.  300 illegals were let go so there are still 270 jobs available that pay $12 hr.  How is Mr. Koch going to find enough people to fill those 270 unfilled jobs now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have the same problem in Georgia.  One time a farmer advertised on the local paper; he listed jobs with the state employment service (which gave access to the job to every person drawing an unemployment check); he passed out flyers.  Of the 280  positions this guy offered, less than half enough people showed up.  FOUR Americans show up and two of them didn't last until noon.  It was on the evening news.  A newsman was there for the entire thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To be honest, when the economy is good, which it is now, usually people stop caring about illegals.  But Trump made too good of an argument to blue collar workers.  He said it was illegals who were here illegally competing for jobs and bringing wages down.  That is/was true.  The only problem is all these white blue collar workers are still competing for these low paying blue collar jobs and the corporations don't want to pay more even though they say they can't find enough help.  They/You refuse to raise your wages.  You're just waiting it out.  You're waiting for the illegals to dig a hole under Trump's wall and start coming back.  LOL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump did not make any kind of case.  All Donald Trump did was to parrot the Democrats party line message.  He conned rednecks with low IQs and exposed how easily duped the average white American really is.  He gave you National Socialist _"solutions_" he got from a white supremacist.  Proof?  Figure it out:
> 
> 
> 
> The people who vote for Democrats are idiots.  That is a given.  If, for instance, what you think were true why would the bulk of blue collar workers still be voting for the Ds given that above history lesson?
> 
> There is NO proof that foreign labor drives down wages.  When America had  conservative economists (Nobel Prize winners at that) holding a similar view as mine, they were the good guys:
> 
> Free to Choose (Milton Friedman, 1980) – The Tyranny of Control
> 
> Classically Liberal: What Milton Friedman really said about immigration.
> 
> Anti-immigrants quote Friedman up to a certain point.  The second link continues where the anti-immigrant argument leaves off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because D's are the lesser of two evils when it comes to working class Americans.  I'm not going to go dig up all the facts that prove this.  It's obvious.  Oh and by the way, the middle class was BOOMING when Clinton was president.  The middle class struggled under Bush.  And I follow politics pretty close to know Bush's policies really fucked the middle class hard.
> 
> And please stop telling us laborers that the GOP is the better choice for us.  YOU are a business owner.  YOU sound like you are rich.  So of course you are going to try to con us into believing the party you like best is the party that we should like best.  The fact is, over the past few decades the rich have gotten richer and the middle class is shrinking.  And you are right, Trump conned stupid white voters into thinking he was going to MAGA.  That's a riot huh?
> 
> The funny thing is, I'm doing great under the Republican way.  Since 2015 I've seen my pay go from $40k when I started to $90K last year.  But the rest of the people at my company are still making what they were making in 2015.  Of course I quadrupled my companies aftermarket sales so I deserved the raises but the point is, Democrats would say as long as the company is making good profits, every employee should get at least a cost of living raise every year.  That's the liberal way.  The conservative way says let them work for a decade without raises.  And that's where Americans are.  If they didn't lose a good job and have to take a shittier one, they're stuck making the same amount they made 10 years ago.  They were barely making it then and are just getting by now.  And none of them are saving enough for retirement.  I am.
> 
> And before you go thinking I lied when I said I made 6 figures, I was counting my $20K a year tax free side gig.  $90K plus $20K is 6 figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are on here too many hours to be making serious money.  I'm not rich by any metric unless you want to compare me to someone in the third world.  I hire a lot of handymen for gigs.  Sometimes they make more per hour than I make.  My house and car are paid for, but then again, I'm driving a 2007 Toyota that I bought when it was new.
> 
> I pay people a HELL of a lot more than the Bubba dude with his 6 mpg new dual wheelie submitting "_proposals_" for replacing an overflow valve (with a customer supplied valve) at $240  (a fifteen minute job that a monkey with a pipe wrench could do.)  He pays his help $15 an hour unless they have a specific skill set.  I pay $20 an hour.  WTF more do you think I should be doing?  I'm too close to being able to retire to stick money into a full blown operation and hire master plumbers.  But, I will give one a gig for $80 an hour.
> 
> I'm not trying to tell anyone how to vote.  I voted for Trump, but admit it was a mistake that WILL NOT be repeated.  The lesser of two evils is still evil.  But, my word to you is that any law that infringes on my *unalienable* Rights is totally ignored.
Click to expand...

I’m curious, why would you think Hillary is the lesser of two evils? When she became the senator from New York she got first responders healthcare after Republicans have been blocking it for 10 years. This whole healthcare for first responders issues now is because it ran out. She got it for them but it ran out. Nothing is forever.
 Do you think she would’ve embraced Vladimir Putin and North Korea is brutal dictator? And estranged us from all of our former friends or NATO? And destroyed every treaty or trade agreement that we have? 
 I’ve heard she’s evil, but she spent her entire life helping people. What is it that makes her evil?


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> We should be making money on border policy by being faithful to our Commerce Clause not losing money on implied, right wing fantasy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does that even mean???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it means you are simply clueless and Causeless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just because you are an idiot does not make me clueless or causeless.  You are such a simpleton, you call me right wing and you've never had enough common sense to ASK what my cause is.  Now, I wouldn't even share that with you without an apology.
> 
> I can just laugh my ass off at you for being so smug about your stupidity, thinking you have something beneficial to say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are one of those freedom to fascism guys.  Basically a libertarian.  Libertarians are just the Republicans retarded cousins.  In some ways you are better than Republicans but in most ways you are worse.
Click to expand...


I'm not a doper and I'd hold my own against you IQ wise.  I mean I did manage to finish law school.  So, I'm not an idiot. _Laissez-faire_ is the way I live my life and Milton Friedman did win a Nobel, so your attitude toward me is debatable.

If anyone is being smug, it would be you.  You've probably had life handed to you.


sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was referring to Trump. Libs have no ability to understand politically supporting someone, without thinking of them as nigh unto GODS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you see 30 Americans showed up for jobs at that Koch Food place the government raided.  300 illegals were let go so there are still 270 jobs available that pay $12 hr.  How is Mr. Koch going to find enough people to fill those 270 unfilled jobs now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We have the same problem in Georgia.  One time a farmer advertised on the local paper; he listed jobs with the state employment service (which gave access to the job to every person drawing an unemployment check); he passed out flyers.  Of the 280  positions this guy offered, less than half enough people showed up.  FOUR Americans show up and two of them didn't last until noon.  It was on the evening news.  A newsman was there for the entire thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To be honest, when the economy is good, which it is now, usually people stop caring about illegals.  But Trump made too good of an argument to blue collar workers.  He said it was illegals who were here illegally competing for jobs and bringing wages down.  That is/was true.  The only problem is all these white blue collar workers are still competing for these low paying blue collar jobs and the corporations don't want to pay more even though they say they can't find enough help.  They/You refuse to raise your wages.  You're just waiting it out.  You're waiting for the illegals to dig a hole under Trump's wall and start coming back.  LOL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump did not make any kind of case.  All Donald Trump did was to parrot the Democrats party line message.  He conned rednecks with low IQs and exposed how easily duped the average white American really is.  He gave you National Socialist _"solutions_" he got from a white supremacist.  Proof?  Figure it out:
> 
> 
> 
> The people who vote for Democrats are idiots.  That is a given.  If, for instance, what you think were true why would the bulk of blue collar workers still be voting for the Ds given that above history lesson?
> 
> There is NO proof that foreign labor drives down wages.  When America had  conservative economists (Nobel Prize winners at that) holding a similar view as mine, they were the good guys:
> 
> Free to Choose (Milton Friedman, 1980) – The Tyranny of Control
> 
> Classically Liberal: What Milton Friedman really said about immigration.
> 
> Anti-immigrants quote Friedman up to a certain point.  The second link continues where the anti-immigrant argument leaves off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because D's are the lesser of two evils when it comes to working class Americans.  I'm not going to go dig up all the facts that prove this.  It's obvious.  Oh and by the way, the middle class was BOOMING when Clinton was president.  The middle class struggled under Bush.  And I follow politics pretty close to know Bush's policies really fucked the middle class hard.
> 
> And please stop telling us laborers that the GOP is the better choice for us.  YOU are a business owner.  YOU sound like you are rich.  So of course you are going to try to con us into believing the party you like best is the party that we should like best.  The fact is, over the past few decades the rich have gotten richer and the middle class is shrinking.  And you are right, Trump conned stupid white voters into thinking he was going to MAGA.  That's a riot huh?
> 
> The funny thing is, I'm doing great under the Republican way.  Since 2015 I've seen my pay go from $40k when I started to $90K last year.  But the rest of the people at my company are still making what they were making in 2015.  Of course I quadrupled my companies aftermarket sales so I deserved the raises but the point is, Democrats would say as long as the company is making good profits, every employee should get at least a cost of living raise every year.  That's the liberal way.  The conservative way says let them work for a decade without raises.  And that's where Americans are.  If they didn't lose a good job and have to take a shittier one, they're stuck making the same amount they made 10 years ago.  They were barely making it then and are just getting by now.  And none of them are saving enough for retirement.  I am.
> 
> And before you go thinking I lied when I said I made 6 figures, I was counting my $20K a year tax free side gig.  $90K plus $20K is 6 figures.
Click to expand...


I'm not a doper and I'd hold my own against you IQ wise.  I mean I did manage to finish law school.  So, I'm not an idiot. _Laissez-faire_ is the way I live my life and Milton Friedman did win a Nobel, so your attitude toward me is debatable.

If anyone is being smug, it would be you.  You've probably had life handed to you.


deanrd said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have the same problem in Georgia.  One time a farmer advertised on the local paper; he listed jobs with the state employment service (which gave access to the job to every person drawing an unemployment check); he passed out flyers.  Of the 280  positions this guy offered, less than half enough people showed up.  FOUR Americans show up and two of them didn't last until noon.  It was on the evening news.  A newsman was there for the entire thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be honest, when the economy is good, which it is now, usually people stop caring about illegals.  But Trump made too good of an argument to blue collar workers.  He said it was illegals who were here illegally competing for jobs and bringing wages down.  That is/was true.  The only problem is all these white blue collar workers are still competing for these low paying blue collar jobs and the corporations don't want to pay more even though they say they can't find enough help.  They/You refuse to raise your wages.  You're just waiting it out.  You're waiting for the illegals to dig a hole under Trump's wall and start coming back.  LOL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump did not make any kind of case.  All Donald Trump did was to parrot the Democrats party line message.  He conned rednecks with low IQs and exposed how easily duped the average white American really is.  He gave you National Socialist _"solutions_" he got from a white supremacist.  Proof?  Figure it out:
> 
> 
> 
> The people who vote for Democrats are idiots.  That is a given.  If, for instance, what you think were true why would the bulk of blue collar workers still be voting for the Ds given that above history lesson?
> 
> There is NO proof that foreign labor drives down wages.  When America had  conservative economists (Nobel Prize winners at that) holding a similar view as mine, they were the good guys:
> 
> Free to Choose (Milton Friedman, 1980) – The Tyranny of Control
> 
> Classically Liberal: What Milton Friedman really said about immigration.
> 
> Anti-immigrants quote Friedman up to a certain point.  The second link continues where the anti-immigrant argument leaves off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because D's are the lesser of two evils when it comes to working class Americans.  I'm not going to go dig up all the facts that prove this.  It's obvious.  Oh and by the way, the middle class was BOOMING when Clinton was president.  The middle class struggled under Bush.  And I follow politics pretty close to know Bush's policies really fucked the middle class hard.
> 
> And please stop telling us laborers that the GOP is the better choice for us.  YOU are a business owner.  YOU sound like you are rich.  So of course you are going to try to con us into believing the party you like best is the party that we should like best.  The fact is, over the past few decades the rich have gotten richer and the middle class is shrinking.  And you are right, Trump conned stupid white voters into thinking he was going to MAGA.  That's a riot huh?
> 
> The funny thing is, I'm doing great under the Republican way.  Since 2015 I've seen my pay go from $40k when I started to $90K last year.  But the rest of the people at my company are still making what they were making in 2015.  Of course I quadrupled my companies aftermarket sales so I deserved the raises but the point is, Democrats would say as long as the company is making good profits, every employee should get at least a cost of living raise every year.  That's the liberal way.  The conservative way says let them work for a decade without raises.  And that's where Americans are.  If they didn't lose a good job and have to take a shittier one, they're stuck making the same amount they made 10 years ago.  They were barely making it then and are just getting by now.  And none of them are saving enough for retirement.  I am.
> 
> And before you go thinking I lied when I said I made 6 figures, I was counting my $20K a year tax free side gig.  $90K plus $20K is 6 figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are on here too many hours to be making serious money.  I'm not rich by any metric unless you want to compare me to someone in the third world.  I hire a lot of handymen for gigs.  Sometimes they make more per hour than I make.  My house and car are paid for, but then again, I'm driving a 2007 Toyota that I bought when it was new.
> 
> I pay people a HELL of a lot more than the Bubba dude with his 6 mpg new dual wheelie submitting "_proposals_" for replacing an overflow valve (with a customer supplied valve) at $240  (a fifteen minute job that a monkey with a pipe wrench could do.)  He pays his help $15 an hour unless they have a specific skill set.  I pay $20 an hour.  WTF more do you think I should be doing?  I'm too close to being able to retire to stick money into a full blown operation and hire master plumbers.  But, I will give one a gig for $80 an hour.
> 
> I'm not trying to tell anyone how to vote.  I voted for Trump, but admit it was a mistake that WILL NOT be repeated.  The lesser of two evils is still evil.  But, my word to you is that any law that infringes on my *unalienable* Rights is totally ignored.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’m curious, why would you think Hillary is the lesser of two evils? When she became the senator from New York she got first responders healthcare after Republicans have been blocking it for 10 years. This whole healthcare for first responders issues now is because it ran out. She got it for them but it ran out. Nothing is forever.
> Do you think she would’ve embraced Vladimir Putin and North Korea is brutal dictator? And estranged us from all of our former friends or NATO? And destroyed every treaty or trade agreement that we have?
> I’ve heard she’s evil, but she spent her entire life helping people. What is it that makes her evil?
Click to expand...


Do I need to write a book on Hitlery?  She opposes the Constitution.  HOWEVER, had she won, we'd be in gridlock mode right now - now full on sell the country out to globalists mode.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

deanrd said:


> Look where the report came from. The national academies of science medicine and engineering.
> 
> Republicans don’t believe in science, they don’t want people to have healthcare, and they certainly don’t appreciate engineering.
> So report like that isn’t going to mean diddly squat to Republicans.



Tell it to Republicans


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> We should be making money on border policy by being faithful to our Commerce Clause not losing money on implied, right wing fantasy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does that even mean???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it means you are simply clueless and Causeless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just because you are an idiot does not make me clueless or causeless.  You are such a simpleton, you call me right wing and you've never had enough common sense to ASK what my cause is.  Now, I wouldn't even share that with you without an apology.
> 
> I can just laugh my ass off at you for being so smug about your stupidity, thinking you have something beneficial to say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are one of those freedom to fascism guys.  Basically a libertarian.  Libertarians are just the Republicans retarded cousins.  In some ways you are better than Republicans but in most ways you are worse.
Click to expand...



I'm one of those guys that 20 years ago were called "_conservative_."  I think multidimensional so labels probably won't work for you.  

Since I don't do dope and think we're making a BIG mistake, it's hard to fit me into a Libertarian mold.  But, if labeling people as a diversion to discussing topics that you fear being wrong about works for you, go for it.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you see 30 Americans showed up for jobs at that Koch Food place the government raided.  300 illegals were let go so there are still 270 jobs available that pay $12 hr.  How is Mr. Koch going to find enough people to fill those 270 unfilled jobs now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have the same problem in Georgia.  One time a farmer advertised on the local paper; he listed jobs with the state employment service (which gave access to the job to every person drawing an unemployment check); he passed out flyers.  Of the 280  positions this guy offered, less than half enough people showed up.  FOUR Americans show up and two of them didn't last until noon.  It was on the evening news.  A newsman was there for the entire thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To be honest, when the economy is good, which it is now, usually people stop caring about illegals.  But Trump made too good of an argument to blue collar workers.  He said it was illegals who were here illegally competing for jobs and bringing wages down.  That is/was true.  The only problem is all these white blue collar workers are still competing for these low paying blue collar jobs and the corporations don't want to pay more even though they say they can't find enough help.  They/You refuse to raise your wages.  You're just waiting it out.  You're waiting for the illegals to dig a hole under Trump's wall and start coming back.  LOL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump did not make any kind of case.  All Donald Trump did was to parrot the Democrats party line message.  He conned rednecks with low IQs and exposed how easily duped the average white American really is.  He gave you National Socialist _"solutions_" he got from a white supremacist.  Proof?  Figure it out:
> 
> 
> 
> The people who vote for Democrats are idiots.  That is a given.  If, for instance, what you think were true why would the bulk of blue collar workers still be voting for the Ds given that above history lesson?
> 
> There is NO proof that foreign labor drives down wages.  When America had  conservative economists (Nobel Prize winners at that) holding a similar view as mine, they were the good guys:
> 
> Free to Choose (Milton Friedman, 1980) – The Tyranny of Control
> 
> Classically Liberal: What Milton Friedman really said about immigration.
> 
> Anti-immigrants quote Friedman up to a certain point.  The second link continues where the anti-immigrant argument leaves off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because D's are the lesser of two evils when it comes to working class Americans.  I'm not going to go dig up all the facts that prove this.  It's obvious.  Oh and by the way, the middle class was BOOMING when Clinton was president.  The middle class struggled under Bush.  And I follow politics pretty close to know Bush's policies really fucked the middle class hard.
> 
> And please stop telling us laborers that the GOP is the better choice for us.  YOU are a business owner.  YOU sound like you are rich.  So of course you are going to try to con us into believing the party you like best is the party that we should like best.  The fact is, over the past few decades the rich have gotten richer and the middle class is shrinking.  And you are right, Trump conned stupid white voters into thinking he was going to MAGA.  That's a riot huh?
> 
> The funny thing is, I'm doing great under the Republican way.  Since 2015 I've seen my pay go from $40k when I started to $90K last year.  But the rest of the people at my company are still making what they were making in 2015.  Of course I quadrupled my companies aftermarket sales so I deserved the raises but the point is, Democrats would say as long as the company is making good profits, every employee should get at least a cost of living raise every year.  That's the liberal way.  The conservative way says let them work for a decade without raises.  And that's where Americans are.  If they didn't lose a good job and have to take a shittier one, they're stuck making the same amount they made 10 years ago.  They were barely making it then and are just getting by now.  And none of them are saving enough for retirement.  I am.
> 
> And before you go thinking I lied when I said I made 6 figures, I was counting my $20K a year tax free side gig.  $90K plus $20K is 6 figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are on here too many hours to be making serious money.  I'm not rich by any metric unless you want to compare me to someone in the third world.  I hire a lot of handymen for gigs.  Sometimes they make more per hour than I make.  My house and car are paid for, but then again, I'm driving a 2007 Toyota that I bought when it was new.
> 
> I pay people a HELL of a lot more than the Bubba dude with his 6 mpg new dual wheelie submitting "_proposals_" for replacing an overflow valve (with a customer supplied valve) at $240  (a fifteen minute job that a monkey with a pipe wrench could do.)  He pays his help $15 an hour unless they have a specific skill set.  I pay $20 an hour.  WTF more do you think I should be doing?  I'm too close to being able to retire to stick money into a full blown operation and hire master plumbers.  But, I will give one a gig for $80 an hour.
> 
> I'm not trying to tell anyone how to vote.  I voted for Trump, but admit it was a mistake that WILL NOT be repeated.  The lesser of two evils is still evil.  But, my word to you is that any law that infringes on my *unalienable* Rights is totally ignored.
Click to expand...


I work very hard from 8-5pm but in between I come here to relax like some people go outside and smoke.

I'm not lying.  I make a $65K base and I'm going to probably sell 2 million this year.  I get 1.5% commission.  That's $30K in commission.  So how much will I make at my real job?  Around $95K.  Then I have a side business where I make $20K clear money.  No taxes on that money.  

And I have no kids, no student loans, my car is paid off.  I'm fucking loaded.

And my brother and his conservative friends say I have become much more conservative ever since I started making this kind of money.  Trust me, I still think Democrats are better for me and people who make less than me.  But one thing is for sure.  Republican policies won't stop me from retiring at 62.  But that's not true for 90% of the people who think they are middle class but not saving enough to retire.  If they aren't saving enough to retire at 67 then how can they call themselves middle class?

I love it when cons here doubt a liberal is capable of making good money.

P.S.  You are right.  I do come here too much.  Bye.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was referring to Trump. Libs have no ability to understand politically supporting someone, without thinking of them as nigh unto GODS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you see 30 Americans showed up for jobs at that Koch Food place the government raided.  300 illegals were let go so there are still 270 jobs available that pay $12 hr.  How is Mr. Koch going to find enough people to fill those 270 unfilled jobs now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We have the same problem in Georgia.  One time a farmer advertised on the local paper; he listed jobs with the state employment service (which gave access to the job to every person drawing an unemployment check); he passed out flyers.  Of the 280  positions this guy offered, less than half enough people showed up.  FOUR Americans show up and two of them didn't last until noon.  It was on the evening news.  A newsman was there for the entire thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To be honest, when the economy is good, which it is now, usually people stop caring about illegals.  But Trump made too good of an argument to blue collar workers.  He said it was illegals who were here illegally competing for jobs and bringing wages down.  That is/was true.  The only problem is all these white blue collar workers are still competing for these low paying blue collar jobs and the corporations don't want to pay more even though they say they can't find enough help.  They/You refuse to raise your wages.  You're just waiting it out.  You're waiting for the illegals to dig a hole under Trump's wall and start coming back.  LOL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump did not make any kind of case.  All Donald Trump did was to parrot the Democrats party line message.  He conned rednecks with low IQs and exposed how easily duped the average white American really is.  He gave you National Socialist _"solutions_" he got from a white supremacist.  Proof?  Figure it out:
> 
> 
> 
> The people who vote for Democrats are idiots.  That is a given.  If, for instance, what you think were true why would the bulk of blue collar workers still be voting for the Ds given that above history lesson?
> 
> There is NO proof that foreign labor drives down wages.  When America had  conservative economists (Nobel Prize winners at that) holding a similar view as mine, they were the good guys:
> 
> Free to Choose (Milton Friedman, 1980) – The Tyranny of Control
> 
> Classically Liberal: What Milton Friedman really said about immigration.
> 
> Anti-immigrants quote Friedman up to a certain point.  The second link continues where the anti-immigrant argument leaves off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because D's are the lesser of two evils when it comes to working class Americans.  I'm not going to go dig up all the facts that prove this.  It's obvious.  Oh and by the way, the middle class was BOOMING when Clinton was president.  The middle class struggled under Bush.  And I follow politics pretty close to know Bush's policies really fucked the middle class hard.
> 
> And please stop telling us laborers that the GOP is the better choice for us.  YOU are a business owner.  YOU sound like you are rich.  So of course you are going to try to con us into believing the party you like best is the party that we should like best.  The fact is, over the past few decades the rich have gotten richer and the middle class is shrinking.  And you are right, Trump conned stupid white voters into thinking he was going to MAGA.  That's a riot huh?
> 
> The funny thing is, I'm doing great under the Republican way.  Since 2015 I've seen my pay go from $40k when I started to $90K last year.  But the rest of the people at my company are still making what they were making in 2015.  Of course I quadrupled my companies aftermarket sales so I deserved the raises but the point is, Democrats would say as long as the company is making good profits, every employee should get at least a cost of living raise every year.  That's the liberal way.  The conservative way says let them work for a decade without raises.  And that's where Americans are.  If they didn't lose a good job and have to take a shittier one, they're stuck making the same amount they made 10 years ago.  They were barely making it then and are just getting by now.  And none of them are saving enough for retirement.  I am.
> 
> And before you go thinking I lied when I said I made 6 figures, I was counting my $20K a year tax free side gig.  $90K plus $20K is 6 figures.
Click to expand...



I'm not telling anyone here who is the better for you to vote for.  I won't vote for Trump and that is because he lied about gun control.  He is the most anti-gun president in the history of the United States.  He will *NEVER* get my vote.  

I'm not "_rich_."  I do, however, pay laborers much more than the other employers.  But, that don't seem to matter.  You see white guys here that will work in fast food for minimum wage, but turn down an outdoor job for* twice* that amount.  Then they come here and bitch about the foreigner that does take the job.

You think socialism is a good route; I don't.  I think the reason that wages are taking a shitter is that we're allowing multinational corporations to come in and think they are going to bring us down to third world level wages.  We're screwing ourselves by not supporting SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> We should be making money on border policy by being faithful to our Commerce Clause not losing money on implied, right wing fantasy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does that even mean???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it means you are simply clueless and Causeless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just because you are an idiot does not make me clueless or causeless.  You are such a simpleton, you call me right wing and you've never had enough common sense to ASK what my cause is.  Now, I wouldn't even share that with you without an apology.
> 
> I can just laugh my ass off at you for being so smug about your stupidity, thinking you have something beneficial to say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are one of those freedom to fascism guys.  Basically a libertarian.  Libertarians are just the Republicans retarded cousins.  In some ways you are better than Republicans but in most ways you are worse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm one of those guys that 20 years ago were called "_conservative_."  I think multidimensional so labels probably won't work for you.
> 
> Since I don't do dope and think we're making a BIG mistake, it's hard to fit me into a Libertarian mold.  But, if labeling people as a diversion to discussing topics that you fear being wrong about works for you, go for it.
Click to expand...


Bruce Jenner doesn't like how Republicans treat gays but that doesn't mean he's not a Republican.  You don't like pot?  That doesn't mean you aren't a libertarian.  Even Ron Paul agrees with you that the income tax is unconstitutional.

Like I said before it doesn't matter if you are a Republican or Libertarian.  They're just two different nuts in a mixed bag of nuts.

And you don't get to tell us what you are.  We tell you what you are based on your comments.  Trust me dude, you're a libertarian.

And like you doubt me, I doubt you make the kind of money you say you make or that you own a business.  To me it sounds like you made all that up just to go along with your narrative.  Then you tell us an American worker asked you for $500 hr and you hired an illegal for $30 hr?  Whatever dude.  You sound more like a nut job than a small business owner.  

And do you still own the business?  You spend way too much time on here to be running a business.  I bet your business did go under.

According to the U.S. *Small Business* Administration, over 50% of *small businesses fail* in the first year and 95% *fail* within the first five years.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have the same problem in Georgia.  One time a farmer advertised on the local paper; he listed jobs with the state employment service (which gave access to the job to every person drawing an unemployment check); he passed out flyers.  Of the 280  positions this guy offered, less than half enough people showed up.  FOUR Americans show up and two of them didn't last until noon.  It was on the evening news.  A newsman was there for the entire thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be honest, when the economy is good, which it is now, usually people stop caring about illegals.  But Trump made too good of an argument to blue collar workers.  He said it was illegals who were here illegally competing for jobs and bringing wages down.  That is/was true.  The only problem is all these white blue collar workers are still competing for these low paying blue collar jobs and the corporations don't want to pay more even though they say they can't find enough help.  They/You refuse to raise your wages.  You're just waiting it out.  You're waiting for the illegals to dig a hole under Trump's wall and start coming back.  LOL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump did not make any kind of case.  All Donald Trump did was to parrot the Democrats party line message.  He conned rednecks with low IQs and exposed how easily duped the average white American really is.  He gave you National Socialist _"solutions_" he got from a white supremacist.  Proof?  Figure it out:
> 
> 
> 
> The people who vote for Democrats are idiots.  That is a given.  If, for instance, what you think were true why would the bulk of blue collar workers still be voting for the Ds given that above history lesson?
> 
> There is NO proof that foreign labor drives down wages.  When America had  conservative economists (Nobel Prize winners at that) holding a similar view as mine, they were the good guys:
> 
> Free to Choose (Milton Friedman, 1980) – The Tyranny of Control
> 
> Classically Liberal: What Milton Friedman really said about immigration.
> 
> Anti-immigrants quote Friedman up to a certain point.  The second link continues where the anti-immigrant argument leaves off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because D's are the lesser of two evils when it comes to working class Americans.  I'm not going to go dig up all the facts that prove this.  It's obvious.  Oh and by the way, the middle class was BOOMING when Clinton was president.  The middle class struggled under Bush.  And I follow politics pretty close to know Bush's policies really fucked the middle class hard.
> 
> And please stop telling us laborers that the GOP is the better choice for us.  YOU are a business owner.  YOU sound like you are rich.  So of course you are going to try to con us into believing the party you like best is the party that we should like best.  The fact is, over the past few decades the rich have gotten richer and the middle class is shrinking.  And you are right, Trump conned stupid white voters into thinking he was going to MAGA.  That's a riot huh?
> 
> The funny thing is, I'm doing great under the Republican way.  Since 2015 I've seen my pay go from $40k when I started to $90K last year.  But the rest of the people at my company are still making what they were making in 2015.  Of course I quadrupled my companies aftermarket sales so I deserved the raises but the point is, Democrats would say as long as the company is making good profits, every employee should get at least a cost of living raise every year.  That's the liberal way.  The conservative way says let them work for a decade without raises.  And that's where Americans are.  If they didn't lose a good job and have to take a shittier one, they're stuck making the same amount they made 10 years ago.  They were barely making it then and are just getting by now.  And none of them are saving enough for retirement.  I am.
> 
> And before you go thinking I lied when I said I made 6 figures, I was counting my $20K a year tax free side gig.  $90K plus $20K is 6 figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are on here too many hours to be making serious money.  I'm not rich by any metric unless you want to compare me to someone in the third world.  I hire a lot of handymen for gigs.  Sometimes they make more per hour than I make.  My house and car are paid for, but then again, I'm driving a 2007 Toyota that I bought when it was new.
> 
> I pay people a HELL of a lot more than the Bubba dude with his 6 mpg new dual wheelie submitting "_proposals_" for replacing an overflow valve (with a customer supplied valve) at $240  (a fifteen minute job that a monkey with a pipe wrench could do.)  He pays his help $15 an hour unless they have a specific skill set.  I pay $20 an hour.  WTF more do you think I should be doing?  I'm too close to being able to retire to stick money into a full blown operation and hire master plumbers.  But, I will give one a gig for $80 an hour.
> 
> I'm not trying to tell anyone how to vote.  I voted for Trump, but admit it was a mistake that WILL NOT be repeated.  The lesser of two evils is still evil.  But, my word to you is that any law that infringes on my *unalienable* Rights is totally ignored.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I work very hard from 8-5pm but in between I come here to relax like some people go outside and smoke.
> 
> I'm not lying.  I make a $65K base and I'm going to probably sell 2 million this year.  I get 1.5% commission.  That's $30K in commission.  So how much will I make at my real job?  Around $95K.  Then I have a side business where I make $20K clear money.  No taxes on that money.
> 
> And I have no kids, no student loans, my car is paid off.  I'm fucking loaded.
> 
> And my brother and his conservative friends say I have become much more conservative ever since I started making this kind of money.  Trust me, I still think Democrats are better for me and people who make less than me.  But one thing is for sure.  Republican policies won't stop me from retiring at 62.  But that's not true for 90% of the people who think they are middle class but not saving enough to retire.  If they aren't saving enough to retire at 67 then how can they call themselves middle class?
> 
> I love it when cons here doubt a liberal is capable of making good money.
> 
> P.S.  You are right.  I do come here too much.  Bye.
Click to expand...


Unless you're peddling illegal drugs, you are probably blowing smoke.  Living in a fantasy world is a good thing.  BTW, the truth be known, the liberals control more of the big money than the Goofy Old Party.  

You shouldn't worry.  After Trump shows his real liberal true colors and enacts gun control, there won't be any Republican Party to worry about.  They only exist because Democrats are socialists and intelligent people realize socialism don't work - unless you are like Donnie the Dictator Trump.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you see 30 Americans showed up for jobs at that Koch Food place the government raided.  300 illegals were let go so there are still 270 jobs available that pay $12 hr.  How is Mr. Koch going to find enough people to fill those 270 unfilled jobs now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have the same problem in Georgia.  One time a farmer advertised on the local paper; he listed jobs with the state employment service (which gave access to the job to every person drawing an unemployment check); he passed out flyers.  Of the 280  positions this guy offered, less than half enough people showed up.  FOUR Americans show up and two of them didn't last until noon.  It was on the evening news.  A newsman was there for the entire thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To be honest, when the economy is good, which it is now, usually people stop caring about illegals.  But Trump made too good of an argument to blue collar workers.  He said it was illegals who were here illegally competing for jobs and bringing wages down.  That is/was true.  The only problem is all these white blue collar workers are still competing for these low paying blue collar jobs and the corporations don't want to pay more even though they say they can't find enough help.  They/You refuse to raise your wages.  You're just waiting it out.  You're waiting for the illegals to dig a hole under Trump's wall and start coming back.  LOL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump did not make any kind of case.  All Donald Trump did was to parrot the Democrats party line message.  He conned rednecks with low IQs and exposed how easily duped the average white American really is.  He gave you National Socialist _"solutions_" he got from a white supremacist.  Proof?  Figure it out:
> 
> 
> 
> The people who vote for Democrats are idiots.  That is a given.  If, for instance, what you think were true why would the bulk of blue collar workers still be voting for the Ds given that above history lesson?
> 
> There is NO proof that foreign labor drives down wages.  When America had  conservative economists (Nobel Prize winners at that) holding a similar view as mine, they were the good guys:
> 
> Free to Choose (Milton Friedman, 1980) – The Tyranny of Control
> 
> Classically Liberal: What Milton Friedman really said about immigration.
> 
> Anti-immigrants quote Friedman up to a certain point.  The second link continues where the anti-immigrant argument leaves off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because D's are the lesser of two evils when it comes to working class Americans.  I'm not going to go dig up all the facts that prove this.  It's obvious.  Oh and by the way, the middle class was BOOMING when Clinton was president.  The middle class struggled under Bush.  And I follow politics pretty close to know Bush's policies really fucked the middle class hard.
> 
> And please stop telling us laborers that the GOP is the better choice for us.  YOU are a business owner.  YOU sound like you are rich.  So of course you are going to try to con us into believing the party you like best is the party that we should like best.  The fact is, over the past few decades the rich have gotten richer and the middle class is shrinking.  And you are right, Trump conned stupid white voters into thinking he was going to MAGA.  That's a riot huh?
> 
> The funny thing is, I'm doing great under the Republican way.  Since 2015 I've seen my pay go from $40k when I started to $90K last year.  But the rest of the people at my company are still making what they were making in 2015.  Of course I quadrupled my companies aftermarket sales so I deserved the raises but the point is, Democrats would say as long as the company is making good profits, every employee should get at least a cost of living raise every year.  That's the liberal way.  The conservative way says let them work for a decade without raises.  And that's where Americans are.  If they didn't lose a good job and have to take a shittier one, they're stuck making the same amount they made 10 years ago.  They were barely making it then and are just getting by now.  And none of them are saving enough for retirement.  I am.
> 
> And before you go thinking I lied when I said I made 6 figures, I was counting my $20K a year tax free side gig.  $90K plus $20K is 6 figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not telling anyone here who is the better for you to vote for.  I won't vote for Trump and that is because he lied about gun control.  He is the most anti-gun president in the history of the United States.  He will *NEVER* get my vote.
> 
> I'm not "_rich_."  I do, however, pay laborers much more than the other employers.  But, that don't seem to matter.  You see white guys here that will work in fast food for minimum wage, but turn down an outdoor job for* twice* that amount.  Then they come here and bitch about the foreigner that does take the job.
> 
> You think socialism is a good route; I don't.  I think the reason that wages are taking a shitter is that we're allowing multinational corporations to come in and think they are going to bring us down to third world level wages.  We're screwing ourselves by not supporting SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS.
Click to expand...


Maybe people in GA would support you if they didn't see illegals working in the back.

Other than that, you are starting to sound more reasonable and I don't disagree with everything you say.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be honest, when the economy is good, which it is now, usually people stop caring about illegals.  But Trump made too good of an argument to blue collar workers.  He said it was illegals who were here illegally competing for jobs and bringing wages down.  That is/was true.  The only problem is all these white blue collar workers are still competing for these low paying blue collar jobs and the corporations don't want to pay more even though they say they can't find enough help.  They/You refuse to raise your wages.  You're just waiting it out.  You're waiting for the illegals to dig a hole under Trump's wall and start coming back.  LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump did not make any kind of case.  All Donald Trump did was to parrot the Democrats party line message.  He conned rednecks with low IQs and exposed how easily duped the average white American really is.  He gave you National Socialist _"solutions_" he got from a white supremacist.  Proof?  Figure it out:
> 
> 
> 
> The people who vote for Democrats are idiots.  That is a given.  If, for instance, what you think were true why would the bulk of blue collar workers still be voting for the Ds given that above history lesson?
> 
> There is NO proof that foreign labor drives down wages.  When America had  conservative economists (Nobel Prize winners at that) holding a similar view as mine, they were the good guys:
> 
> Free to Choose (Milton Friedman, 1980) – The Tyranny of Control
> 
> Classically Liberal: What Milton Friedman really said about immigration.
> 
> Anti-immigrants quote Friedman up to a certain point.  The second link continues where the anti-immigrant argument leaves off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because D's are the lesser of two evils when it comes to working class Americans.  I'm not going to go dig up all the facts that prove this.  It's obvious.  Oh and by the way, the middle class was BOOMING when Clinton was president.  The middle class struggled under Bush.  And I follow politics pretty close to know Bush's policies really fucked the middle class hard.
> 
> And please stop telling us laborers that the GOP is the better choice for us.  YOU are a business owner.  YOU sound like you are rich.  So of course you are going to try to con us into believing the party you like best is the party that we should like best.  The fact is, over the past few decades the rich have gotten richer and the middle class is shrinking.  And you are right, Trump conned stupid white voters into thinking he was going to MAGA.  That's a riot huh?
> 
> The funny thing is, I'm doing great under the Republican way.  Since 2015 I've seen my pay go from $40k when I started to $90K last year.  But the rest of the people at my company are still making what they were making in 2015.  Of course I quadrupled my companies aftermarket sales so I deserved the raises but the point is, Democrats would say as long as the company is making good profits, every employee should get at least a cost of living raise every year.  That's the liberal way.  The conservative way says let them work for a decade without raises.  And that's where Americans are.  If they didn't lose a good job and have to take a shittier one, they're stuck making the same amount they made 10 years ago.  They were barely making it then and are just getting by now.  And none of them are saving enough for retirement.  I am.
> 
> And before you go thinking I lied when I said I made 6 figures, I was counting my $20K a year tax free side gig.  $90K plus $20K is 6 figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are on here too many hours to be making serious money.  I'm not rich by any metric unless you want to compare me to someone in the third world.  I hire a lot of handymen for gigs.  Sometimes they make more per hour than I make.  My house and car are paid for, but then again, I'm driving a 2007 Toyota that I bought when it was new.
> 
> I pay people a HELL of a lot more than the Bubba dude with his 6 mpg new dual wheelie submitting "_proposals_" for replacing an overflow valve (with a customer supplied valve) at $240  (a fifteen minute job that a monkey with a pipe wrench could do.)  He pays his help $15 an hour unless they have a specific skill set.  I pay $20 an hour.  WTF more do you think I should be doing?  I'm too close to being able to retire to stick money into a full blown operation and hire master plumbers.  But, I will give one a gig for $80 an hour.
> 
> I'm not trying to tell anyone how to vote.  I voted for Trump, but admit it was a mistake that WILL NOT be repeated.  The lesser of two evils is still evil.  But, my word to you is that any law that infringes on my *unalienable* Rights is totally ignored.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I work very hard from 8-5pm but in between I come here to relax like some people go outside and smoke.
> 
> I'm not lying.  I make a $65K base and I'm going to probably sell 2 million this year.  I get 1.5% commission.  That's $30K in commission.  So how much will I make at my real job?  Around $95K.  Then I have a side business where I make $20K clear money.  No taxes on that money.
> 
> And I have no kids, no student loans, my car is paid off.  I'm fucking loaded.
> 
> And my brother and his conservative friends say I have become much more conservative ever since I started making this kind of money.  Trust me, I still think Democrats are better for me and people who make less than me.  But one thing is for sure.  Republican policies won't stop me from retiring at 62.  But that's not true for 90% of the people who think they are middle class but not saving enough to retire.  If they aren't saving enough to retire at 67 then how can they call themselves middle class?
> 
> I love it when cons here doubt a liberal is capable of making good money.
> 
> P.S.  You are right.  I do come here too much.  Bye.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unless you're peddling illegal drugs, you are probably blowing smoke.  Living in a fantasy world is a good thing.  BTW, the truth be known, the liberals control more of the big money than the Goofy Old Party.
> 
> You shouldn't worry.  After Trump shows his real liberal true colors and enacts gun control, there won't be any Republican Party to worry about.  They only exist because Democrats are socialists and intelligent people realize socialism don't work - unless you are like Donnie the Dictator Trump.
Click to expand...


You don't think public schools work?  You don't think medicare works?  

Why do they have to be illegal drugs?  I'm in MI.  We just made pot legal.  I just don't pay taxes on my profits.  

I'm not lying.  I started at my company making $40K 5 years ago.  I doubled aftermarket sales and after the first year the president only gave me a $10K raise.  The next year I tripled sales and the new president bumped me up to $65K plus 1.5% commission.  Trust me, I just about shit when he gave that to me too.  It was going to be $50K or $60K plus and when I got back to my desk the email said $65K plus 1.5% commission.  I thought, "maybe it was a mistake" but before he could take it back I forwarded it to HR and told them I approve and the next paycheck I was making $65K plus.  HOLY SHIT!  Why is that so hard to believe?  Probably because no one in GA makes that kind of money including you.

My brother is like a level 3 VP at a fortune 500 and he makes $800K.  Do you not believe that either?  Who cares what you believe.

You know who I love?  The cons on here who get all bent out of shape because I don't pay taxes on my side gig.  Why would I?  They say it makes me a hypocrite because I cry that corporations don't pay their fair share.  Well you know what?  If you can't beat them, join them.  That's why I am slowly but surely becoming a conservative.  Not because I agree with them but because the poor people who vote GOP or don't vote at all make me sick.  If they don't get it and if they don't care, why should I care about them?  

P.S.  Thanks for not believing I make what I make.  It's flattering to know I make an unbelievable amount compared to the rest of you.  Thanks for making me feel good.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be honest, when the economy is good, which it is now, usually people stop caring about illegals.  But Trump made too good of an argument to blue collar workers.  He said it was illegals who were here illegally competing for jobs and bringing wages down.  That is/was true.  The only problem is all these white blue collar workers are still competing for these low paying blue collar jobs and the corporations don't want to pay more even though they say they can't find enough help.  They/You refuse to raise your wages.  You're just waiting it out.  You're waiting for the illegals to dig a hole under Trump's wall and start coming back.  LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump did not make any kind of case.  All Donald Trump did was to parrot the Democrats party line message.  He conned rednecks with low IQs and exposed how easily duped the average white American really is.  He gave you National Socialist _"solutions_" he got from a white supremacist.  Proof?  Figure it out:
> 
> 
> 
> The people who vote for Democrats are idiots.  That is a given.  If, for instance, what you think were true why would the bulk of blue collar workers still be voting for the Ds given that above history lesson?
> 
> There is NO proof that foreign labor drives down wages.  When America had  conservative economists (Nobel Prize winners at that) holding a similar view as mine, they were the good guys:
> 
> Free to Choose (Milton Friedman, 1980) – The Tyranny of Control
> 
> Classically Liberal: What Milton Friedman really said about immigration.
> 
> Anti-immigrants quote Friedman up to a certain point.  The second link continues where the anti-immigrant argument leaves off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because D's are the lesser of two evils when it comes to working class Americans.  I'm not going to go dig up all the facts that prove this.  It's obvious.  Oh and by the way, the middle class was BOOMING when Clinton was president.  The middle class struggled under Bush.  And I follow politics pretty close to know Bush's policies really fucked the middle class hard.
> 
> And please stop telling us laborers that the GOP is the better choice for us.  YOU are a business owner.  YOU sound like you are rich.  So of course you are going to try to con us into believing the party you like best is the party that we should like best.  The fact is, over the past few decades the rich have gotten richer and the middle class is shrinking.  And you are right, Trump conned stupid white voters into thinking he was going to MAGA.  That's a riot huh?
> 
> The funny thing is, I'm doing great under the Republican way.  Since 2015 I've seen my pay go from $40k when I started to $90K last year.  But the rest of the people at my company are still making what they were making in 2015.  Of course I quadrupled my companies aftermarket sales so I deserved the raises but the point is, Democrats would say as long as the company is making good profits, every employee should get at least a cost of living raise every year.  That's the liberal way.  The conservative way says let them work for a decade without raises.  And that's where Americans are.  If they didn't lose a good job and have to take a shittier one, they're stuck making the same amount they made 10 years ago.  They were barely making it then and are just getting by now.  And none of them are saving enough for retirement.  I am.
> 
> And before you go thinking I lied when I said I made 6 figures, I was counting my $20K a year tax free side gig.  $90K plus $20K is 6 figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are on here too many hours to be making serious money.  I'm not rich by any metric unless you want to compare me to someone in the third world.  I hire a lot of handymen for gigs.  Sometimes they make more per hour than I make.  My house and car are paid for, but then again, I'm driving a 2007 Toyota that I bought when it was new.
> 
> I pay people a HELL of a lot more than the Bubba dude with his 6 mpg new dual wheelie submitting "_proposals_" for replacing an overflow valve (with a customer supplied valve) at $240  (a fifteen minute job that a monkey with a pipe wrench could do.)  He pays his help $15 an hour unless they have a specific skill set.  I pay $20 an hour.  WTF more do you think I should be doing?  I'm too close to being able to retire to stick money into a full blown operation and hire master plumbers.  But, I will give one a gig for $80 an hour.
> 
> I'm not trying to tell anyone how to vote.  I voted for Trump, but admit it was a mistake that WILL NOT be repeated.  The lesser of two evils is still evil.  But, my word to you is that any law that infringes on my *unalienable* Rights is totally ignored.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I work very hard from 8-5pm but in between I come here to relax like some people go outside and smoke.
> 
> I'm not lying.  I make a $65K base and I'm going to probably sell 2 million this year.  I get 1.5% commission.  That's $30K in commission.  So how much will I make at my real job?  Around $95K.  Then I have a side business where I make $20K clear money.  No taxes on that money.
> 
> And I have no kids, no student loans, my car is paid off.  I'm fucking loaded.
> 
> And my brother and his conservative friends say I have become much more conservative ever since I started making this kind of money.  Trust me, I still think Democrats are better for me and people who make less than me.  But one thing is for sure.  Republican policies won't stop me from retiring at 62.  But that's not true for 90% of the people who think they are middle class but not saving enough to retire.  If they aren't saving enough to retire at 67 then how can they call themselves middle class?
> 
> I love it when cons here doubt a liberal is capable of making good money.
> 
> P.S.  You are right.  I do come here too much.  Bye.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unless you're peddling illegal drugs, you are probably blowing smoke.  Living in a fantasy world is a good thing.  BTW, the truth be known, the liberals control more of the big money than the Goofy Old Party.
> 
> You shouldn't worry.  After Trump shows his real liberal true colors and enacts gun control, there won't be any Republican Party to worry about.  They only exist because Democrats are socialists and intelligent people realize socialism don't work - unless you are like Donnie the Dictator Trump.
Click to expand...


They aren't "illegal" drugs but you are supposed to have a medical marijuana card in order to go to a despensary.  Most people don't have a card so they can't go to those yet.  

You can "gift" someone some pot but you can't sell it if you aren't a caregiver or legal grower.  So I "gift" my friends the pot they want but then I sell them a pencil for $200.  LOL.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does that even mean???
> 
> 
> 
> it means you are simply clueless and Causeless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just because you are an idiot does not make me clueless or causeless.  You are such a simpleton, you call me right wing and you've never had enough common sense to ASK what my cause is.  Now, I wouldn't even share that with you without an apology.
> 
> I can just laugh my ass off at you for being so smug about your stupidity, thinking you have something beneficial to say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are one of those freedom to fascism guys.  Basically a libertarian.  Libertarians are just the Republicans retarded cousins.  In some ways you are better than Republicans but in most ways you are worse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm one of those guys that 20 years ago were called "_conservative_."  I think multidimensional so labels probably won't work for you.
> 
> Since I don't do dope and think we're making a BIG mistake, it's hard to fit me into a Libertarian mold.  But, if labeling people as a diversion to discussing topics that you fear being wrong about works for you, go for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bruce Jenner doesn't like how Republicans treat gays but that doesn't mean he's not a Republican.  You don't like pot?  That doesn't mean you aren't a libertarian.  Even Ron Paul agrees with you that the income tax is unconstitutional.
> 
> Like I said before it doesn't matter if you are a Republican or Libertarian.  They're just two different nuts in a mixed bag of nuts.
> 
> And you don't get to tell us what you are.  We tell you what you are based on your comments.  Trust me dude, you're a libertarian.
> 
> And like you doubt me, I doubt you make the kind of money you say you make or that you own a business.  To me it sounds like you made all that up just to go along with your narrative.  Then you tell us an American worker asked you for $500 hr and you hired an illegal for $30 hr?  Whatever dude.  You sound more like a nut job than a small business owner.
> 
> And do you still own the business?  You spend way too much time on here to be running a business.  I bet your business did go under.
> 
> According to the U.S. *Small Business* Administration, over 50% of *small businesses fail* in the first year and 95% *fail* within the first five years.
Click to expand...


Dude, I'm in semi-retirement.  I think you are hilarious.  What country do you live in where self righteous smart asses get to determine what a man is as opposed to the man telling you what he is.  

If I come out against drugs and abortion and the Libertarians are cool with that, I might just run as a Libertarian.  I'll explain the deal to you:

I got out of the hospital after major surgery.  So, I'm in stitches and can't get around.  The overflow valve on the water heater goes out and I tell my wife to pick up another one at Home Depot.

I call a plumber that wants $40 to make a "_service call_."  I tell him what's wrong and have the part.  He goes to his truck and after 40 minutes he comes back with a _"proposal_."  It was for $240 plus the $40 service charge.  I told him that I had already told him I was an ex Seabee.  I know what it takes to fix this freaking stuff.  I paid him $40 and gave him 40 seconds to be off my property.

I picked up the phone and called the first laborer I had a number for.  He came over and changed the overflow out in under 15 minutes.  I asked him what I owed him.  He said, you think $30 is reasonable?  

Now, had Bubba done that job.  He would have gotten $280 for a 15 minute job.  That puts him at $1,120 an hour.  Are there not four 15 minute segments in an hour?  Allow for the trip out here and taxes, it works out to about $985 per hour.  *THAT* is why you have undocumented foreigners working jobs, making damn good money and allowing people to be able to live in and keep their homes.

Any person that would allow the Bubbas to take advantage of them are idiots.  Poor people; those on fixed incomes; those who are on disability... they cannot afford to pay you a surgeon's wages for a job where the skill set takes six months to learn and their lives aren't at stake.  So, those people are traitors for keeping their homes and not leaving it because some redneck with an over sized truck thinks he should be paid as much as a surgeon?  You are beyond foolish and anyone that reads your bullshit probably realizes that smokers ARE people with a low IQ.  

Right now my business is the ministry.  I help people get back on their feet.  I help people in poor neighborhoods get repairs done for what they can afford.  On my end, I don't make much of anything.  I planned for my retirement.  But, son, these guys thinking they are going to go into neighborhoods and rip people off to appease folks like you are the real traitors... and so are you for not acknowledging the real problems.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trump did not make any kind of case.  All Donald Trump did was to parrot the Democrats party line message.  He conned rednecks with low IQs and exposed how easily duped the average white American really is.  He gave you National Socialist _"solutions_" he got from a white supremacist.  Proof?  Figure it out:
> 
> 
> 
> The people who vote for Democrats are idiots.  That is a given.  If, for instance, what you think were true why would the bulk of blue collar workers still be voting for the Ds given that above history lesson?
> 
> There is NO proof that foreign labor drives down wages.  When America had  conservative economists (Nobel Prize winners at that) holding a similar view as mine, they were the good guys:
> 
> Free to Choose (Milton Friedman, 1980) – The Tyranny of Control
> 
> Classically Liberal: What Milton Friedman really said about immigration.
> 
> Anti-immigrants quote Friedman up to a certain point.  The second link continues where the anti-immigrant argument leaves off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because D's are the lesser of two evils when it comes to working class Americans.  I'm not going to go dig up all the facts that prove this.  It's obvious.  Oh and by the way, the middle class was BOOMING when Clinton was president.  The middle class struggled under Bush.  And I follow politics pretty close to know Bush's policies really fucked the middle class hard.
> 
> And please stop telling us laborers that the GOP is the better choice for us.  YOU are a business owner.  YOU sound like you are rich.  So of course you are going to try to con us into believing the party you like best is the party that we should like best.  The fact is, over the past few decades the rich have gotten richer and the middle class is shrinking.  And you are right, Trump conned stupid white voters into thinking he was going to MAGA.  That's a riot huh?
> 
> The funny thing is, I'm doing great under the Republican way.  Since 2015 I've seen my pay go from $40k when I started to $90K last year.  But the rest of the people at my company are still making what they were making in 2015.  Of course I quadrupled my companies aftermarket sales so I deserved the raises but the point is, Democrats would say as long as the company is making good profits, every employee should get at least a cost of living raise every year.  That's the liberal way.  The conservative way says let them work for a decade without raises.  And that's where Americans are.  If they didn't lose a good job and have to take a shittier one, they're stuck making the same amount they made 10 years ago.  They were barely making it then and are just getting by now.  And none of them are saving enough for retirement.  I am.
> 
> And before you go thinking I lied when I said I made 6 figures, I was counting my $20K a year tax free side gig.  $90K plus $20K is 6 figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are on here too many hours to be making serious money.  I'm not rich by any metric unless you want to compare me to someone in the third world.  I hire a lot of handymen for gigs.  Sometimes they make more per hour than I make.  My house and car are paid for, but then again, I'm driving a 2007 Toyota that I bought when it was new.
> 
> I pay people a HELL of a lot more than the Bubba dude with his 6 mpg new dual wheelie submitting "_proposals_" for replacing an overflow valve (with a customer supplied valve) at $240  (a fifteen minute job that a monkey with a pipe wrench could do.)  He pays his help $15 an hour unless they have a specific skill set.  I pay $20 an hour.  WTF more do you think I should be doing?  I'm too close to being able to retire to stick money into a full blown operation and hire master plumbers.  But, I will give one a gig for $80 an hour.
> 
> I'm not trying to tell anyone how to vote.  I voted for Trump, but admit it was a mistake that WILL NOT be repeated.  The lesser of two evils is still evil.  But, my word to you is that any law that infringes on my *unalienable* Rights is totally ignored.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I work very hard from 8-5pm but in between I come here to relax like some people go outside and smoke.
> 
> I'm not lying.  I make a $65K base and I'm going to probably sell 2 million this year.  I get 1.5% commission.  That's $30K in commission.  So how much will I make at my real job?  Around $95K.  Then I have a side business where I make $20K clear money.  No taxes on that money.
> 
> And I have no kids, no student loans, my car is paid off.  I'm fucking loaded.
> 
> And my brother and his conservative friends say I have become much more conservative ever since I started making this kind of money.  Trust me, I still think Democrats are better for me and people who make less than me.  But one thing is for sure.  Republican policies won't stop me from retiring at 62.  But that's not true for 90% of the people who think they are middle class but not saving enough to retire.  If they aren't saving enough to retire at 67 then how can they call themselves middle class?
> 
> I love it when cons here doubt a liberal is capable of making good money.
> 
> P.S.  You are right.  I do come here too much.  Bye.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unless you're peddling illegal drugs, you are probably blowing smoke.  Living in a fantasy world is a good thing.  BTW, the truth be known, the liberals control more of the big money than the Goofy Old Party.
> 
> You shouldn't worry.  After Trump shows his real liberal true colors and enacts gun control, there won't be any Republican Party to worry about.  They only exist because Democrats are socialists and intelligent people realize socialism don't work - unless you are like Donnie the Dictator Trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They aren't "illegal" drugs but you are supposed to have a medical marijuana card in order to go to a despensary.  Most people don't have a card so they can't go to those yet.
> 
> You can "gift" someone some pot but you can't sell it if you aren't a caregiver or legal grower.  So I "gift" my friends the pot they want but then I sell them a pencil for $200.  LOL.
Click to expand...

 
You're still here. Thought you had work to do.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trump did not make any kind of case.  All Donald Trump did was to parrot the Democrats party line message.  He conned rednecks with low IQs and exposed how easily duped the average white American really is.  He gave you National Socialist _"solutions_" he got from a white supremacist.  Proof?  Figure it out:
> 
> 
> 
> The people who vote for Democrats are idiots.  That is a given.  If, for instance, what you think were true why would the bulk of blue collar workers still be voting for the Ds given that above history lesson?
> 
> There is NO proof that foreign labor drives down wages.  When America had  conservative economists (Nobel Prize winners at that) holding a similar view as mine, they were the good guys:
> 
> Free to Choose (Milton Friedman, 1980) – The Tyranny of Control
> 
> Classically Liberal: What Milton Friedman really said about immigration.
> 
> Anti-immigrants quote Friedman up to a certain point.  The second link continues where the anti-immigrant argument leaves off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because D's are the lesser of two evils when it comes to working class Americans.  I'm not going to go dig up all the facts that prove this.  It's obvious.  Oh and by the way, the middle class was BOOMING when Clinton was president.  The middle class struggled under Bush.  And I follow politics pretty close to know Bush's policies really fucked the middle class hard.
> 
> And please stop telling us laborers that the GOP is the better choice for us.  YOU are a business owner.  YOU sound like you are rich.  So of course you are going to try to con us into believing the party you like best is the party that we should like best.  The fact is, over the past few decades the rich have gotten richer and the middle class is shrinking.  And you are right, Trump conned stupid white voters into thinking he was going to MAGA.  That's a riot huh?
> 
> The funny thing is, I'm doing great under the Republican way.  Since 2015 I've seen my pay go from $40k when I started to $90K last year.  But the rest of the people at my company are still making what they were making in 2015.  Of course I quadrupled my companies aftermarket sales so I deserved the raises but the point is, Democrats would say as long as the company is making good profits, every employee should get at least a cost of living raise every year.  That's the liberal way.  The conservative way says let them work for a decade without raises.  And that's where Americans are.  If they didn't lose a good job and have to take a shittier one, they're stuck making the same amount they made 10 years ago.  They were barely making it then and are just getting by now.  And none of them are saving enough for retirement.  I am.
> 
> And before you go thinking I lied when I said I made 6 figures, I was counting my $20K a year tax free side gig.  $90K plus $20K is 6 figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are on here too many hours to be making serious money.  I'm not rich by any metric unless you want to compare me to someone in the third world.  I hire a lot of handymen for gigs.  Sometimes they make more per hour than I make.  My house and car are paid for, but then again, I'm driving a 2007 Toyota that I bought when it was new.
> 
> I pay people a HELL of a lot more than the Bubba dude with his 6 mpg new dual wheelie submitting "_proposals_" for replacing an overflow valve (with a customer supplied valve) at $240  (a fifteen minute job that a monkey with a pipe wrench could do.)  He pays his help $15 an hour unless they have a specific skill set.  I pay $20 an hour.  WTF more do you think I should be doing?  I'm too close to being able to retire to stick money into a full blown operation and hire master plumbers.  But, I will give one a gig for $80 an hour.
> 
> I'm not trying to tell anyone how to vote.  I voted for Trump, but admit it was a mistake that WILL NOT be repeated.  The lesser of two evils is still evil.  But, my word to you is that any law that infringes on my *unalienable* Rights is totally ignored.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I work very hard from 8-5pm but in between I come here to relax like some people go outside and smoke.
> 
> I'm not lying.  I make a $65K base and I'm going to probably sell 2 million this year.  I get 1.5% commission.  That's $30K in commission.  So how much will I make at my real job?  Around $95K.  Then I have a side business where I make $20K clear money.  No taxes on that money.
> 
> And I have no kids, no student loans, my car is paid off.  I'm fucking loaded.
> 
> And my brother and his conservative friends say I have become much more conservative ever since I started making this kind of money.  Trust me, I still think Democrats are better for me and people who make less than me.  But one thing is for sure.  Republican policies won't stop me from retiring at 62.  But that's not true for 90% of the people who think they are middle class but not saving enough to retire.  If they aren't saving enough to retire at 67 then how can they call themselves middle class?
> 
> I love it when cons here doubt a liberal is capable of making good money.
> 
> P.S.  You are right.  I do come here too much.  Bye.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unless you're peddling illegal drugs, you are probably blowing smoke.  Living in a fantasy world is a good thing.  BTW, the truth be known, the liberals control more of the big money than the Goofy Old Party.
> 
> You shouldn't worry.  After Trump shows his real liberal true colors and enacts gun control, there won't be any Republican Party to worry about.  They only exist because Democrats are socialists and intelligent people realize socialism don't work - unless you are like Donnie the Dictator Trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't think public schools work?  You don't think medicare works?
> 
> Why do they have to be illegal drugs?  I'm in MI.  We just made pot legal.  I just don't pay taxes on my profits.
> 
> I'm not lying.  I started at my company making $40K 5 years ago.  I doubled aftermarket sales and after the first year the president only gave me a $10K raise.  The next year I tripled sales and the new president bumped me up to $65K plus 1.5% commission.  Trust me, I just about shit when he gave that to me too.  It was going to be $50K or $60K plus and when I got back to my desk the email said $65K plus 1.5% commission.  I thought, "maybe it was a mistake" but before he could take it back I forwarded it to HR and told them I approve and the next paycheck I was making $65K plus.  HOLY SHIT!  Why is that so hard to believe?  Probably because no one in GA makes that kind of money including you.
> 
> My brother is like a level 3 VP at a fortune 500 and he makes $800K.  Do you not believe that either?  Who cares what you believe.
> 
> You know who I love?  The cons on here who get all bent out of shape because I don't pay taxes on my side gig.  Why would I?  They say it makes me a hypocrite because I cry that corporations don't pay their fair share.  Well you know what?  If you can't beat them, join them.  That's why I am slowly but surely becoming a conservative.  Not because I agree with them but because the poor people who vote GOP or don't vote at all make me sick.  If they don't get it and if they don't care, why should I care about them?
> 
> P.S.  Thanks for not believing I make what I make.  It's flattering to know I make an unbelievable amount compared to the rest of you.  Thanks for making me feel good.
Click to expand...



I won't comment on the off topic stuff.  We're going down too many roads.  But, this is my word to you:

I saw something many years ago and it told me a lot about a certain president and the drug trade.  A while back my wife and I watched a several part documentary on the subject:

America's War on Drugs (TV Mini-Series 2017) - IMDb

This is some related stuff on the subject:

America's War on Drugs Full Episodes, Video & More | HISTORY

Most people in Georgia don't make the kind of money you're talking about.  I raised a boy when he was sent to us by the state.  I went from foster parent to adopted father.  Well he's all grown up and got a job selling roofing jobs.  He was so proud of his first big paycheck that he texted me a copy of the $1900 check for one week.  Last month, he got his largest check for a single week: $4015.  Admittedly, other than the doctors, lawyers, judges and a couple of politicians I know, my adopted son is the highest paid person I personally know.  

I'm friends with the Secretary of State; he is a millionaire, but I don't _"know_" him to the point that we see each other socially.

If you have the courage to watch that series, you'll have somewhat of a handle on my position.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have the same problem in Georgia.  One time a farmer advertised on the local paper; he listed jobs with the state employment service (which gave access to the job to every person drawing an unemployment check); he passed out flyers.  Of the 280  positions this guy offered, less than half enough people showed up.  FOUR Americans show up and two of them didn't last until noon.  It was on the evening news.  A newsman was there for the entire thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be honest, when the economy is good, which it is now, usually people stop caring about illegals.  But Trump made too good of an argument to blue collar workers.  He said it was illegals who were here illegally competing for jobs and bringing wages down.  That is/was true.  The only problem is all these white blue collar workers are still competing for these low paying blue collar jobs and the corporations don't want to pay more even though they say they can't find enough help.  They/You refuse to raise your wages.  You're just waiting it out.  You're waiting for the illegals to dig a hole under Trump's wall and start coming back.  LOL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump did not make any kind of case.  All Donald Trump did was to parrot the Democrats party line message.  He conned rednecks with low IQs and exposed how easily duped the average white American really is.  He gave you National Socialist _"solutions_" he got from a white supremacist.  Proof?  Figure it out:
> 
> 
> 
> The people who vote for Democrats are idiots.  That is a given.  If, for instance, what you think were true why would the bulk of blue collar workers still be voting for the Ds given that above history lesson?
> 
> There is NO proof that foreign labor drives down wages.  When America had  conservative economists (Nobel Prize winners at that) holding a similar view as mine, they were the good guys:
> 
> Free to Choose (Milton Friedman, 1980) – The Tyranny of Control
> 
> Classically Liberal: What Milton Friedman really said about immigration.
> 
> Anti-immigrants quote Friedman up to a certain point.  The second link continues where the anti-immigrant argument leaves off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because D's are the lesser of two evils when it comes to working class Americans.  I'm not going to go dig up all the facts that prove this.  It's obvious.  Oh and by the way, the middle class was BOOMING when Clinton was president.  The middle class struggled under Bush.  And I follow politics pretty close to know Bush's policies really fucked the middle class hard.
> 
> And please stop telling us laborers that the GOP is the better choice for us.  YOU are a business owner.  YOU sound like you are rich.  So of course you are going to try to con us into believing the party you like best is the party that we should like best.  The fact is, over the past few decades the rich have gotten richer and the middle class is shrinking.  And you are right, Trump conned stupid white voters into thinking he was going to MAGA.  That's a riot huh?
> 
> The funny thing is, I'm doing great under the Republican way.  Since 2015 I've seen my pay go from $40k when I started to $90K last year.  But the rest of the people at my company are still making what they were making in 2015.  Of course I quadrupled my companies aftermarket sales so I deserved the raises but the point is, Democrats would say as long as the company is making good profits, every employee should get at least a cost of living raise every year.  That's the liberal way.  The conservative way says let them work for a decade without raises.  And that's where Americans are.  If they didn't lose a good job and have to take a shittier one, they're stuck making the same amount they made 10 years ago.  They were barely making it then and are just getting by now.  And none of them are saving enough for retirement.  I am.
> 
> And before you go thinking I lied when I said I made 6 figures, I was counting my $20K a year tax free side gig.  $90K plus $20K is 6 figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not telling anyone here who is the better for you to vote for.  I won't vote for Trump and that is because he lied about gun control.  He is the most anti-gun president in the history of the United States.  He will *NEVER* get my vote.
> 
> I'm not "_rich_."  I do, however, pay laborers much more than the other employers.  But, that don't seem to matter.  You see white guys here that will work in fast food for minimum wage, but turn down an outdoor job for* twice* that amount.  Then they come here and bitch about the foreigner that does take the job.
> 
> You think socialism is a good route; I don't.  I think the reason that wages are taking a shitter is that we're allowing multinational corporations to come in and think they are going to bring us down to third world level wages.  We're screwing ourselves by not supporting SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe people in GA would support you if they didn't see illegals working in the back.
> 
> Other than that, you are starting to sound more reasonable and I don't disagree with everything you say.
Click to expand...



A lady over in one of the low rent type housing district needed a front deck.  She's 71 so this is no option for her.  I got two white guys and they turned out to be meth-heads.  Three weeks into the job, they haven't finished.  She risks getting hurt.  I'm really busy so I call a guy and he knows a couple of Mexicans.  We went there and she paid for the lumber; I paid them.  They did it for $100 less than the two stooges (though I did some labor.)  What would you do?  I got these guys that gig to try them out and continue giving them referrals if they'd show up.

The entire job could have been finished in one day.  It was a simple deck 5 feet wide and 16 feet long.  

I didn't set out to do this business.  It's just that the church found out I could get poor people the help around the house they can't afford and my *intentions* were to give those locked out of the job market a second chance by getting them gigs doing landscaping, minor home repairs, cleaning gutters, etc.  When people call me I have to come up with *SOMEONE. * And despite all the advertising I do, the younger guys here don't want to work.   I have one in the house.

My wife's son was homeless.  His grandmother died while I was taking care of her in my home.  My wife lets that son come here to live because she "_didn't want him living in the tent in the woods, grieving._"  He hangs here for a couple of weeks and one Saturday a lady down the way calls and offers $10 an hour to get people to help her put up sections of a fence.  She is trying to put them up herself.  My wife's son, who never has to work, wouldn't get off his sorry ass and go help.  I found a meth addict that was sober enough to do the job.  Had it not been for him, I definitely would call the Mexican guys.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> it means you are simply clueless and Causeless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just because you are an idiot does not make me clueless or causeless.  You are such a simpleton, you call me right wing and you've never had enough common sense to ASK what my cause is.  Now, I wouldn't even share that with you without an apology.
> 
> I can just laugh my ass off at you for being so smug about your stupidity, thinking you have something beneficial to say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are one of those freedom to fascism guys.  Basically a libertarian.  Libertarians are just the Republicans retarded cousins.  In some ways you are better than Republicans but in most ways you are worse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm one of those guys that 20 years ago were called "_conservative_."  I think multidimensional so labels probably won't work for you.
> 
> Since I don't do dope and think we're making a BIG mistake, it's hard to fit me into a Libertarian mold.  But, if labeling people as a diversion to discussing topics that you fear being wrong about works for you, go for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bruce Jenner doesn't like how Republicans treat gays but that doesn't mean he's not a Republican.  You don't like pot?  That doesn't mean you aren't a libertarian.  Even Ron Paul agrees with you that the income tax is unconstitutional.
> 
> Like I said before it doesn't matter if you are a Republican or Libertarian.  They're just two different nuts in a mixed bag of nuts.
> 
> And you don't get to tell us what you are.  We tell you what you are based on your comments.  Trust me dude, you're a libertarian.
> 
> And like you doubt me, I doubt you make the kind of money you say you make or that you own a business.  To me it sounds like you made all that up just to go along with your narrative.  Then you tell us an American worker asked you for $500 hr and you hired an illegal for $30 hr?  Whatever dude.  You sound more like a nut job than a small business owner.
> 
> And do you still own the business?  You spend way too much time on here to be running a business.  I bet your business did go under.
> 
> According to the U.S. *Small Business* Administration, over 50% of *small businesses fail* in the first year and 95% *fail* within the first five years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude, I'm in semi-retirement.  I think you are hilarious.  What country do you live in where self righteous smart asses get to determine what a man is as opposed to the man telling you what he is.
> 
> If I come out against drugs and abortion and the Libertarians are cool with that, I might just run as a Libertarian.  I'll explain the deal to you:
> 
> I got out of the hospital after major surgery.  So, I'm in stitches and can't get around.  The overflow valve on the water heater goes out and I tell my wife to pick up another one at Home Depot.
> 
> I call a plumber that wants $40 to make a "_service call_."  I tell him what's wrong and have the part.  He goes to his truck and after 40 minutes he comes back with a _"proposal_."  It was for $240 plus the $40 service charge.  I told him that I had already told him I was an ex Seabee.  I know what it takes to fix this freaking stuff.  I paid him $40 and gave him 40 seconds to be off my property.
> 
> I picked up the phone and called the first laborer I had a number for.  He came over and changed the overflow out in under 15 minutes.  I asked him what I owed him.  He said, you think $30 is reasonable?
> 
> Now, had Bubba done that job.  He would have gotten $280 for a 15 minute job.  That puts him at $1,120 an hour.  Are there not four 15 minute segments in an hour?  Allow for the trip out here and taxes, it works out to about $985 per hour.  *THAT* is why you have undocumented foreigners working jobs, making damn good money and allowing people to be able to live in and keep their homes.
> 
> Any person that would allow the Bubbas to take advantage of them are idiots.  Poor people; those on fixed incomes; those who are on disability... they cannot afford to pay you a surgeon's wages for a job where the skill set takes six months to learn and their lives aren't at stake.  So, those people are traitors for keeping their homes and not leaving it because some redneck with an over sized truck thinks he should be paid as much as a surgeon?  You are beyond foolish and anyone that reads your bullshit probably realizes that smokers ARE people with a low IQ.
> 
> Right now my business is the ministry.  I help people get back on their feet.  I help people in poor neighborhoods get repairs done for what they can afford.  On my end, I don't make much of anything.  I planned for my retirement.  But, son, these guys thinking they are going to go into neighborhoods and rip people off to appease folks like you are the real traitors... and so are you for not acknowledging the real problems.
Click to expand...


I disagree.  I paid an American $200 to detail my car.  I know I could have found an illegal to do it cheaper but I was glad to pay an American company an American wage.  That's the only way we are going to make America great again.  An illegal shouldn't even be an option.

I felt like maybe these guys doing car detailing and landscaping can finally charge a rate that will give them a good standard of living.  I don't mind paying a little more.  Hell, I paid a lot more.

Remember, I make $90K plus a year and I have no mortgage, no kids going to college and I paid off my college loans in 1995.  

The funny thing about hiring illegals is that it's not poor Americans who need to save that are doing it.  It's rich guys like you.  This is just one reason the rich have gotten richer in the last few decades and the middle class has disappeared or shrunk.  I read somewhere that people who employ illegals save billions of dollars every year.  That means you are stealing from middle class and poor Americans.  It's not right.  And you are proving that class warfare does exist.  And you clearly don't respect American workers.  To you we are lazy and charge too much.  Funny, that's what we think about your company.  

I have the luxury of working in Manufacturing and in Michigan.  A union state where labor still makes a pretty good living.  My brother just confirmed with me that the new company he just went to treats their employees like shit.  For decades he thought I was making that up.  Now that he works for a company that isn't in manufacturing, he is seeing that not all companies treat their employees like they should.

And that Koch company that got caught hiring all those illegals in Mississippi?  They pay $12.  That's shit.  And from the lawsuits I saw they went through, they too treat their employees like shit.  You cons and employers love it this way.  Where employees are helpless and have to take your shit and your $12 hr shitty job.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because D's are the lesser of two evils when it comes to working class Americans.  I'm not going to go dig up all the facts that prove this.  It's obvious.  Oh and by the way, the middle class was BOOMING when Clinton was president.  The middle class struggled under Bush.  And I follow politics pretty close to know Bush's policies really fucked the middle class hard.
> 
> And please stop telling us laborers that the GOP is the better choice for us.  YOU are a business owner.  YOU sound like you are rich.  So of course you are going to try to con us into believing the party you like best is the party that we should like best.  The fact is, over the past few decades the rich have gotten richer and the middle class is shrinking.  And you are right, Trump conned stupid white voters into thinking he was going to MAGA.  That's a riot huh?
> 
> The funny thing is, I'm doing great under the Republican way.  Since 2015 I've seen my pay go from $40k when I started to $90K last year.  But the rest of the people at my company are still making what they were making in 2015.  Of course I quadrupled my companies aftermarket sales so I deserved the raises but the point is, Democrats would say as long as the company is making good profits, every employee should get at least a cost of living raise every year.  That's the liberal way.  The conservative way says let them work for a decade without raises.  And that's where Americans are.  If they didn't lose a good job and have to take a shittier one, they're stuck making the same amount they made 10 years ago.  They were barely making it then and are just getting by now.  And none of them are saving enough for retirement.  I am.
> 
> And before you go thinking I lied when I said I made 6 figures, I was counting my $20K a year tax free side gig.  $90K plus $20K is 6 figures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are on here too many hours to be making serious money.  I'm not rich by any metric unless you want to compare me to someone in the third world.  I hire a lot of handymen for gigs.  Sometimes they make more per hour than I make.  My house and car are paid for, but then again, I'm driving a 2007 Toyota that I bought when it was new.
> 
> I pay people a HELL of a lot more than the Bubba dude with his 6 mpg new dual wheelie submitting "_proposals_" for replacing an overflow valve (with a customer supplied valve) at $240  (a fifteen minute job that a monkey with a pipe wrench could do.)  He pays his help $15 an hour unless they have a specific skill set.  I pay $20 an hour.  WTF more do you think I should be doing?  I'm too close to being able to retire to stick money into a full blown operation and hire master plumbers.  But, I will give one a gig for $80 an hour.
> 
> I'm not trying to tell anyone how to vote.  I voted for Trump, but admit it was a mistake that WILL NOT be repeated.  The lesser of two evils is still evil.  But, my word to you is that any law that infringes on my *unalienable* Rights is totally ignored.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I work very hard from 8-5pm but in between I come here to relax like some people go outside and smoke.
> 
> I'm not lying.  I make a $65K base and I'm going to probably sell 2 million this year.  I get 1.5% commission.  That's $30K in commission.  So how much will I make at my real job?  Around $95K.  Then I have a side business where I make $20K clear money.  No taxes on that money.
> 
> And I have no kids, no student loans, my car is paid off.  I'm fucking loaded.
> 
> And my brother and his conservative friends say I have become much more conservative ever since I started making this kind of money.  Trust me, I still think Democrats are better for me and people who make less than me.  But one thing is for sure.  Republican policies won't stop me from retiring at 62.  But that's not true for 90% of the people who think they are middle class but not saving enough to retire.  If they aren't saving enough to retire at 67 then how can they call themselves middle class?
> 
> I love it when cons here doubt a liberal is capable of making good money.
> 
> P.S.  You are right.  I do come here too much.  Bye.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unless you're peddling illegal drugs, you are probably blowing smoke.  Living in a fantasy world is a good thing.  BTW, the truth be known, the liberals control more of the big money than the Goofy Old Party.
> 
> You shouldn't worry.  After Trump shows his real liberal true colors and enacts gun control, there won't be any Republican Party to worry about.  They only exist because Democrats are socialists and intelligent people realize socialism don't work - unless you are like Donnie the Dictator Trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They aren't "illegal" drugs but you are supposed to have a medical marijuana card in order to go to a despensary.  Most people don't have a card so they can't go to those yet.
> 
> You can "gift" someone some pot but you can't sell it if you aren't a caregiver or legal grower.  So I "gift" my friends the pot they want but then I sell them a pencil for $200.  LOL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're still here. Thought you had work to do.
Click to expand...


I'm done for the day.  Actually, my boss told me because I'm doing so well I can come and go as I please.  My goal is they always want me to at least sell $100K a month.  I'm at $98,000 right now and it's the 14th.  Suck on that.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because D's are the lesser of two evils when it comes to working class Americans.  I'm not going to go dig up all the facts that prove this.  It's obvious.  Oh and by the way, the middle class was BOOMING when Clinton was president.  The middle class struggled under Bush.  And I follow politics pretty close to know Bush's policies really fucked the middle class hard.
> 
> And please stop telling us laborers that the GOP is the better choice for us.  YOU are a business owner.  YOU sound like you are rich.  So of course you are going to try to con us into believing the party you like best is the party that we should like best.  The fact is, over the past few decades the rich have gotten richer and the middle class is shrinking.  And you are right, Trump conned stupid white voters into thinking he was going to MAGA.  That's a riot huh?
> 
> The funny thing is, I'm doing great under the Republican way.  Since 2015 I've seen my pay go from $40k when I started to $90K last year.  But the rest of the people at my company are still making what they were making in 2015.  Of course I quadrupled my companies aftermarket sales so I deserved the raises but the point is, Democrats would say as long as the company is making good profits, every employee should get at least a cost of living raise every year.  That's the liberal way.  The conservative way says let them work for a decade without raises.  And that's where Americans are.  If they didn't lose a good job and have to take a shittier one, they're stuck making the same amount they made 10 years ago.  They were barely making it then and are just getting by now.  And none of them are saving enough for retirement.  I am.
> 
> And before you go thinking I lied when I said I made 6 figures, I was counting my $20K a year tax free side gig.  $90K plus $20K is 6 figures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are on here too many hours to be making serious money.  I'm not rich by any metric unless you want to compare me to someone in the third world.  I hire a lot of handymen for gigs.  Sometimes they make more per hour than I make.  My house and car are paid for, but then again, I'm driving a 2007 Toyota that I bought when it was new.
> 
> I pay people a HELL of a lot more than the Bubba dude with his 6 mpg new dual wheelie submitting "_proposals_" for replacing an overflow valve (with a customer supplied valve) at $240  (a fifteen minute job that a monkey with a pipe wrench could do.)  He pays his help $15 an hour unless they have a specific skill set.  I pay $20 an hour.  WTF more do you think I should be doing?  I'm too close to being able to retire to stick money into a full blown operation and hire master plumbers.  But, I will give one a gig for $80 an hour.
> 
> I'm not trying to tell anyone how to vote.  I voted for Trump, but admit it was a mistake that WILL NOT be repeated.  The lesser of two evils is still evil.  But, my word to you is that any law that infringes on my *unalienable* Rights is totally ignored.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I work very hard from 8-5pm but in between I come here to relax like some people go outside and smoke.
> 
> I'm not lying.  I make a $65K base and I'm going to probably sell 2 million this year.  I get 1.5% commission.  That's $30K in commission.  So how much will I make at my real job?  Around $95K.  Then I have a side business where I make $20K clear money.  No taxes on that money.
> 
> And I have no kids, no student loans, my car is paid off.  I'm fucking loaded.
> 
> And my brother and his conservative friends say I have become much more conservative ever since I started making this kind of money.  Trust me, I still think Democrats are better for me and people who make less than me.  But one thing is for sure.  Republican policies won't stop me from retiring at 62.  But that's not true for 90% of the people who think they are middle class but not saving enough to retire.  If they aren't saving enough to retire at 67 then how can they call themselves middle class?
> 
> I love it when cons here doubt a liberal is capable of making good money.
> 
> P.S.  You are right.  I do come here too much.  Bye.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unless you're peddling illegal drugs, you are probably blowing smoke.  Living in a fantasy world is a good thing.  BTW, the truth be known, the liberals control more of the big money than the Goofy Old Party.
> 
> You shouldn't worry.  After Trump shows his real liberal true colors and enacts gun control, there won't be any Republican Party to worry about.  They only exist because Democrats are socialists and intelligent people realize socialism don't work - unless you are like Donnie the Dictator Trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't think public schools work?  You don't think medicare works?
> 
> Why do they have to be illegal drugs?  I'm in MI.  We just made pot legal.  I just don't pay taxes on my profits.
> 
> I'm not lying.  I started at my company making $40K 5 years ago.  I doubled aftermarket sales and after the first year the president only gave me a $10K raise.  The next year I tripled sales and the new president bumped me up to $65K plus 1.5% commission.  Trust me, I just about shit when he gave that to me too.  It was going to be $50K or $60K plus and when I got back to my desk the email said $65K plus 1.5% commission.  I thought, "maybe it was a mistake" but before he could take it back I forwarded it to HR and told them I approve and the next paycheck I was making $65K plus.  HOLY SHIT!  Why is that so hard to believe?  Probably because no one in GA makes that kind of money including you.
> 
> My brother is like a level 3 VP at a fortune 500 and he makes $800K.  Do you not believe that either?  Who cares what you believe.
> 
> You know who I love?  The cons on here who get all bent out of shape because I don't pay taxes on my side gig.  Why would I?  They say it makes me a hypocrite because I cry that corporations don't pay their fair share.  Well you know what?  If you can't beat them, join them.  That's why I am slowly but surely becoming a conservative.  Not because I agree with them but because the poor people who vote GOP or don't vote at all make me sick.  If they don't get it and if they don't care, why should I care about them?
> 
> P.S.  Thanks for not believing I make what I make.  It's flattering to know I make an unbelievable amount compared to the rest of you.  Thanks for making me feel good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I won't comment on the off topic stuff.  We're going down too many roads.  But, this is my word to you:
> 
> I saw something many years ago and it told me a lot about a certain president and the drug trade.  A while back my wife and I watched a several part documentary on the subject:
> 
> America's War on Drugs (TV Mini-Series 2017) - IMDb
> 
> This is some related stuff on the subject:
> 
> America's War on Drugs Full Episodes, Video & More | HISTORY
> 
> Most people in Georgia don't make the kind of money you're talking about.  I raised a boy when he was sent to us by the state.  I went from foster parent to adopted father.  Well he's all grown up and got a job selling roofing jobs.  He was so proud of his first big paycheck that he texted me a copy of the $1900 check for one week.  Last month, he got his largest check for a single week: $4015.  Admittedly, other than the doctors, lawyers, judges and a couple of politicians I know, my adopted son is the highest paid person I personally know.
> 
> I'm friends with the Secretary of State; he is a millionaire, but I don't _"know_" him to the point that we see each other socially.
> 
> If you have the courage to watch that series, you'll have somewhat of a handle on my position.
Click to expand...


I make $300 every day I wake up.  $300 x 365 days is?


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be honest, when the economy is good, which it is now, usually people stop caring about illegals.  But Trump made too good of an argument to blue collar workers.  He said it was illegals who were here illegally competing for jobs and bringing wages down.  That is/was true.  The only problem is all these white blue collar workers are still competing for these low paying blue collar jobs and the corporations don't want to pay more even though they say they can't find enough help.  They/You refuse to raise your wages.  You're just waiting it out.  You're waiting for the illegals to dig a hole under Trump's wall and start coming back.  LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump did not make any kind of case.  All Donald Trump did was to parrot the Democrats party line message.  He conned rednecks with low IQs and exposed how easily duped the average white American really is.  He gave you National Socialist _"solutions_" he got from a white supremacist.  Proof?  Figure it out:
> 
> 
> 
> The people who vote for Democrats are idiots.  That is a given.  If, for instance, what you think were true why would the bulk of blue collar workers still be voting for the Ds given that above history lesson?
> 
> There is NO proof that foreign labor drives down wages.  When America had  conservative economists (Nobel Prize winners at that) holding a similar view as mine, they were the good guys:
> 
> Free to Choose (Milton Friedman, 1980) – The Tyranny of Control
> 
> Classically Liberal: What Milton Friedman really said about immigration.
> 
> Anti-immigrants quote Friedman up to a certain point.  The second link continues where the anti-immigrant argument leaves off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because D's are the lesser of two evils when it comes to working class Americans.  I'm not going to go dig up all the facts that prove this.  It's obvious.  Oh and by the way, the middle class was BOOMING when Clinton was president.  The middle class struggled under Bush.  And I follow politics pretty close to know Bush's policies really fucked the middle class hard.
> 
> And please stop telling us laborers that the GOP is the better choice for us.  YOU are a business owner.  YOU sound like you are rich.  So of course you are going to try to con us into believing the party you like best is the party that we should like best.  The fact is, over the past few decades the rich have gotten richer and the middle class is shrinking.  And you are right, Trump conned stupid white voters into thinking he was going to MAGA.  That's a riot huh?
> 
> The funny thing is, I'm doing great under the Republican way.  Since 2015 I've seen my pay go from $40k when I started to $90K last year.  But the rest of the people at my company are still making what they were making in 2015.  Of course I quadrupled my companies aftermarket sales so I deserved the raises but the point is, Democrats would say as long as the company is making good profits, every employee should get at least a cost of living raise every year.  That's the liberal way.  The conservative way says let them work for a decade without raises.  And that's where Americans are.  If they didn't lose a good job and have to take a shittier one, they're stuck making the same amount they made 10 years ago.  They were barely making it then and are just getting by now.  And none of them are saving enough for retirement.  I am.
> 
> And before you go thinking I lied when I said I made 6 figures, I was counting my $20K a year tax free side gig.  $90K plus $20K is 6 figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not telling anyone here who is the better for you to vote for.  I won't vote for Trump and that is because he lied about gun control.  He is the most anti-gun president in the history of the United States.  He will *NEVER* get my vote.
> 
> I'm not "_rich_."  I do, however, pay laborers much more than the other employers.  But, that don't seem to matter.  You see white guys here that will work in fast food for minimum wage, but turn down an outdoor job for* twice* that amount.  Then they come here and bitch about the foreigner that does take the job.
> 
> You think socialism is a good route; I don't.  I think the reason that wages are taking a shitter is that we're allowing multinational corporations to come in and think they are going to bring us down to third world level wages.  We're screwing ourselves by not supporting SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe people in GA would support you if they didn't see illegals working in the back.
> 
> Other than that, you are starting to sound more reasonable and I don't disagree with everything you say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> A lady over in one of the low rent type housing district needed a front deck.  She's 71 so this is no option for her.  I got two white guys and they turned out to be meth-heads.  Three weeks into the job, they haven't finished.  She risks getting hurt.  I'm really busy so I call a guy and he knows a couple of Mexicans.  We went there and she paid for the lumber; I paid them.  They did it for $100 less than the two stooges (though I did some labor.)  What would you do?  I got these guys that gig to try them out and continue giving them referrals if they'd show up.
> 
> The entire job could have been finished in one day.  It was a simple deck 5 feet wide and 16 feet long.
> 
> I didn't set out to do this business.  It's just that the church found out I could get poor people the help around the house they can't afford and my *intentions* were to give those locked out of the job market a second chance by getting them gigs doing landscaping, minor home repairs, cleaning gutters, etc.  When people call me I have to come up with *SOMEONE. * And despite all the advertising I do, the younger guys here don't want to work.   I have one in the house.
> 
> My wife's son was homeless.  His grandmother died while I was taking care of her in my home.  My wife lets that son come here to live because she "_didn't want him living in the tent in the woods, grieving._"  He hangs here for a couple of weeks and one Saturday a lady down the way calls and offers $10 an hour to get people to help her put up sections of a fence.  She is trying to put them up herself.  My wife's son, who never has to work, wouldn't get off his sorry ass and go help.  I found a meth addict that was sober enough to do the job.  Had it not been for him, I definitely would call the Mexican guys.
Click to expand...


I can't argue with you about these people you are talking about.  I know they exist.  I know most who are un employed are that way for a reason.


----------



## Correll

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just because you are an idiot does not make me clueless or causeless.  You are such a simpleton, you call me right wing and you've never had enough common sense to ASK what my cause is.  Now, I wouldn't even share that with you without an apology.
> 
> I can just laugh my ass off at you for being so smug about your stupidity, thinking you have something beneficial to say.
> 
> 
> 
> You are one of those freedom to fascism guys.  Basically a libertarian.  Libertarians are just the Republicans retarded cousins.  In some ways you are better than Republicans but in most ways you are worse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm one of those guys that 20 years ago were called "_conservative_."  I think multidimensional so labels probably won't work for you.
> 
> Since I don't do dope and think we're making a BIG mistake, it's hard to fit me into a Libertarian mold.  But, if labeling people as a diversion to discussing topics that you fear being wrong about works for you, go for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bruce Jenner doesn't like how Republicans treat gays but that doesn't mean he's not a Republican.  You don't like pot?  That doesn't mean you aren't a libertarian.  Even Ron Paul agrees with you that the income tax is unconstitutional.
> 
> Like I said before it doesn't matter if you are a Republican or Libertarian.  They're just two different nuts in a mixed bag of nuts.
> 
> And you don't get to tell us what you are.  We tell you what you are based on your comments.  Trust me dude, you're a libertarian.
> 
> And like you doubt me, I doubt you make the kind of money you say you make or that you own a business.  To me it sounds like you made all that up just to go along with your narrative.  Then you tell us an American worker asked you for $500 hr and you hired an illegal for $30 hr?  Whatever dude.  You sound more like a nut job than a small business owner.
> 
> And do you still own the business?  You spend way too much time on here to be running a business.  I bet your business did go under.
> 
> According to the U.S. *Small Business* Administration, over 50% of *small businesses fail* in the first year and 95% *fail* within the first five years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude, I'm in semi-retirement.  I think you are hilarious.  What country do you live in where self righteous smart asses get to determine what a man is as opposed to the man telling you what he is.
> 
> If I come out against drugs and abortion and the Libertarians are cool with that, I might just run as a Libertarian.  I'll explain the deal to you:
> 
> I got out of the hospital after major surgery.  So, I'm in stitches and can't get around.  The overflow valve on the water heater goes out and I tell my wife to pick up another one at Home Depot.
> 
> I call a plumber that wants $40 to make a "_service call_."  I tell him what's wrong and have the part.  He goes to his truck and after 40 minutes he comes back with a _"proposal_."  It was for $240 plus the $40 service charge.  I told him that I had already told him I was an ex Seabee.  I know what it takes to fix this freaking stuff.  I paid him $40 and gave him 40 seconds to be off my property.
> 
> I picked up the phone and called the first laborer I had a number for.  He came over and changed the overflow out in under 15 minutes.  I asked him what I owed him.  He said, you think $30 is reasonable?
> 
> Now, had Bubba done that job.  He would have gotten $280 for a 15 minute job.  That puts him at $1,120 an hour.  Are there not four 15 minute segments in an hour?  Allow for the trip out here and taxes, it works out to about $985 per hour.  *THAT* is why you have undocumented foreigners working jobs, making damn good money and allowing people to be able to live in and keep their homes.
> 
> Any person that would allow the Bubbas to take advantage of them are idiots.  Poor people; those on fixed incomes; those who are on disability... they cannot afford to pay you a surgeon's wages for a job where the skill set takes six months to learn and their lives aren't at stake.  So, those people are traitors for keeping their homes and not leaving it because some redneck with an over sized truck thinks he should be paid as much as a surgeon?  You are beyond foolish and anyone that reads your bullshit probably realizes that smokers ARE people with a low IQ.
> 
> Right now my business is the ministry.  I help people get back on their feet.  I help people in poor neighborhoods get repairs done for what they can afford.  On my end, I don't make much of anything.  I planned for my retirement.  But, son, these guys thinking they are going to go into neighborhoods and rip people off to appease folks like you are the real traitors... and so are you for not acknowledging the real problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree.  I paid an American $200 to detail my car.  I know I could have found an illegal to do it cheaper but I was glad to pay an American company an American wage.  That's the only way we are going to make America great again.  An illegal shouldn't even be an option.
> 
> I felt like maybe these guys doing car detailing and landscaping can finally charge a rate that will give them a good standard of living.  I don't mind paying a little more.  Hell, I paid a lot more.
> 
> Remember, I make $90K plus a year and I have no mortgage, no kids going to college and I paid off my college loans in 1995.
> 
> The funny thing about hiring illegals is that it's not poor Americans who need to save that are doing it.  It's rich guys like you.  This is just one reason the rich have gotten richer in the last few decades and the middle class has disappeared or shrunk.  I read somewhere that people who employ illegals save billions of dollars every year.  That means you are stealing from middle class and poor Americans.  It's not right.  And you are proving that class warfare does exist.  And you clearly don't respect American workers.  To you we are lazy and charge too much.  Funny, that's what we think about your company.
> 
> I have the luxury of working in Manufacturing and in Michigan.  A union state where labor still makes a pretty good living.  My brother just confirmed with me that the new company he just went to treats their employees like shit.  For decades he thought I was making that up.  Now that he works for a company that isn't in manufacturing, he is seeing that not all companies treat their employees like they should.
> 
> And that Koch company that got caught hiring all those illegals in Mississippi?  They pay $12.  That's shit.  And from the lawsuits I saw they went through, they too treat their employees like shit.  You cons and employers love it this way.  Where employees are helpless and have to take your shit and your $12 hr shitty job.
Click to expand...




Here is the thing I think we should remember. Me and you share a goal Seely, the best interests of the American citizens, individually and America as a whole. 


A lot of people, are not motivated by that, for different reasons. 


Rockwell, has ideological problems with the idea that American policy should be crafted to serve the interests of Americans.


I've run into that kind of thinking a lot.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are one of those freedom to fascism guys.  Basically a libertarian.  Libertarians are just the Republicans retarded cousins.  In some ways you are better than Republicans but in most ways you are worse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm one of those guys that 20 years ago were called "_conservative_."  I think multidimensional so labels probably won't work for you.
> 
> Since I don't do dope and think we're making a BIG mistake, it's hard to fit me into a Libertarian mold.  But, if labeling people as a diversion to discussing topics that you fear being wrong about works for you, go for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bruce Jenner doesn't like how Republicans treat gays but that doesn't mean he's not a Republican.  You don't like pot?  That doesn't mean you aren't a libertarian.  Even Ron Paul agrees with you that the income tax is unconstitutional.
> 
> Like I said before it doesn't matter if you are a Republican or Libertarian.  They're just two different nuts in a mixed bag of nuts.
> 
> And you don't get to tell us what you are.  We tell you what you are based on your comments.  Trust me dude, you're a libertarian.
> 
> And like you doubt me, I doubt you make the kind of money you say you make or that you own a business.  To me it sounds like you made all that up just to go along with your narrative.  Then you tell us an American worker asked you for $500 hr and you hired an illegal for $30 hr?  Whatever dude.  You sound more like a nut job than a small business owner.
> 
> And do you still own the business?  You spend way too much time on here to be running a business.  I bet your business did go under.
> 
> According to the U.S. *Small Business* Administration, over 50% of *small businesses fail* in the first year and 95% *fail* within the first five years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude, I'm in semi-retirement.  I think you are hilarious.  What country do you live in where self righteous smart asses get to determine what a man is as opposed to the man telling you what he is.
> 
> If I come out against drugs and abortion and the Libertarians are cool with that, I might just run as a Libertarian.  I'll explain the deal to you:
> 
> I got out of the hospital after major surgery.  So, I'm in stitches and can't get around.  The overflow valve on the water heater goes out and I tell my wife to pick up another one at Home Depot.
> 
> I call a plumber that wants $40 to make a "_service call_."  I tell him what's wrong and have the part.  He goes to his truck and after 40 minutes he comes back with a _"proposal_."  It was for $240 plus the $40 service charge.  I told him that I had already told him I was an ex Seabee.  I know what it takes to fix this freaking stuff.  I paid him $40 and gave him 40 seconds to be off my property.
> 
> I picked up the phone and called the first laborer I had a number for.  He came over and changed the overflow out in under 15 minutes.  I asked him what I owed him.  He said, you think $30 is reasonable?
> 
> Now, had Bubba done that job.  He would have gotten $280 for a 15 minute job.  That puts him at $1,120 an hour.  Are there not four 15 minute segments in an hour?  Allow for the trip out here and taxes, it works out to about $985 per hour.  *THAT* is why you have undocumented foreigners working jobs, making damn good money and allowing people to be able to live in and keep their homes.
> 
> Any person that would allow the Bubbas to take advantage of them are idiots.  Poor people; those on fixed incomes; those who are on disability... they cannot afford to pay you a surgeon's wages for a job where the skill set takes six months to learn and their lives aren't at stake.  So, those people are traitors for keeping their homes and not leaving it because some redneck with an over sized truck thinks he should be paid as much as a surgeon?  You are beyond foolish and anyone that reads your bullshit probably realizes that smokers ARE people with a low IQ.
> 
> Right now my business is the ministry.  I help people get back on their feet.  I help people in poor neighborhoods get repairs done for what they can afford.  On my end, I don't make much of anything.  I planned for my retirement.  But, son, these guys thinking they are going to go into neighborhoods and rip people off to appease folks like you are the real traitors... and so are you for not acknowledging the real problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree.  I paid an American $200 to detail my car.  I know I could have found an illegal to do it cheaper but I was glad to pay an American company an American wage.  That's the only way we are going to make America great again.  An illegal shouldn't even be an option.
> 
> I felt like maybe these guys doing car detailing and landscaping can finally charge a rate that will give them a good standard of living.  I don't mind paying a little more.  Hell, I paid a lot more.
> 
> Remember, I make $90K plus a year and I have no mortgage, no kids going to college and I paid off my college loans in 1995.
> 
> The funny thing about hiring illegals is that it's not poor Americans who need to save that are doing it.  It's rich guys like you.  This is just one reason the rich have gotten richer in the last few decades and the middle class has disappeared or shrunk.  I read somewhere that people who employ illegals save billions of dollars every year.  That means you are stealing from middle class and poor Americans.  It's not right.  And you are proving that class warfare does exist.  And you clearly don't respect American workers.  To you we are lazy and charge too much.  Funny, that's what we think about your company.
> 
> I have the luxury of working in Manufacturing and in Michigan.  A union state where labor still makes a pretty good living.  My brother just confirmed with me that the new company he just went to treats their employees like shit.  For decades he thought I was making that up.  Now that he works for a company that isn't in manufacturing, he is seeing that not all companies treat their employees like they should.
> 
> And that Koch company that got caught hiring all those illegals in Mississippi?  They pay $12.  That's shit.  And from the lawsuits I saw they went through, they too treat their employees like shit.  You cons and employers love it this way.  Where employees are helpless and have to take your shit and your $12 hr shitty job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the thing I think we should remember. Me and you share a goal Seely, the best interests of the American citizens, individually and America as a whole.
> 
> 
> A lot of people, are not motivated by that, for different reasons.
> 
> 
> Rockwell, has ideological problems with the idea that American policy should be crafted to serve the interests of Americans.
> 
> 
> I've run into that kind of thinking a lot.
Click to expand...


Our policies cannot be crafted so as to make Americans choose between keeping their homes or losing them just because some people think a six month skill set is worth the same as the man who spent 8 years to learn his trade.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are on here too many hours to be making serious money.  I'm not rich by any metric unless you want to compare me to someone in the third world.  I hire a lot of handymen for gigs.  Sometimes they make more per hour than I make.  My house and car are paid for, but then again, I'm driving a 2007 Toyota that I bought when it was new.
> 
> I pay people a HELL of a lot more than the Bubba dude with his 6 mpg new dual wheelie submitting "_proposals_" for replacing an overflow valve (with a customer supplied valve) at $240  (a fifteen minute job that a monkey with a pipe wrench could do.)  He pays his help $15 an hour unless they have a specific skill set.  I pay $20 an hour.  WTF more do you think I should be doing?  I'm too close to being able to retire to stick money into a full blown operation and hire master plumbers.  But, I will give one a gig for $80 an hour.
> 
> I'm not trying to tell anyone how to vote.  I voted for Trump, but admit it was a mistake that WILL NOT be repeated.  The lesser of two evils is still evil.  But, my word to you is that any law that infringes on my *unalienable* Rights is totally ignored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I work very hard from 8-5pm but in between I come here to relax like some people go outside and smoke.
> 
> I'm not lying.  I make a $65K base and I'm going to probably sell 2 million this year.  I get 1.5% commission.  That's $30K in commission.  So how much will I make at my real job?  Around $95K.  Then I have a side business where I make $20K clear money.  No taxes on that money.
> 
> And I have no kids, no student loans, my car is paid off.  I'm fucking loaded.
> 
> And my brother and his conservative friends say I have become much more conservative ever since I started making this kind of money.  Trust me, I still think Democrats are better for me and people who make less than me.  But one thing is for sure.  Republican policies won't stop me from retiring at 62.  But that's not true for 90% of the people who think they are middle class but not saving enough to retire.  If they aren't saving enough to retire at 67 then how can they call themselves middle class?
> 
> I love it when cons here doubt a liberal is capable of making good money.
> 
> P.S.  You are right.  I do come here too much.  Bye.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unless you're peddling illegal drugs, you are probably blowing smoke.  Living in a fantasy world is a good thing.  BTW, the truth be known, the liberals control more of the big money than the Goofy Old Party.
> 
> You shouldn't worry.  After Trump shows his real liberal true colors and enacts gun control, there won't be any Republican Party to worry about.  They only exist because Democrats are socialists and intelligent people realize socialism don't work - unless you are like Donnie the Dictator Trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't think public schools work?  You don't think medicare works?
> 
> Why do they have to be illegal drugs?  I'm in MI.  We just made pot legal.  I just don't pay taxes on my profits.
> 
> I'm not lying.  I started at my company making $40K 5 years ago.  I doubled aftermarket sales and after the first year the president only gave me a $10K raise.  The next year I tripled sales and the new president bumped me up to $65K plus 1.5% commission.  Trust me, I just about shit when he gave that to me too.  It was going to be $50K or $60K plus and when I got back to my desk the email said $65K plus 1.5% commission.  I thought, "maybe it was a mistake" but before he could take it back I forwarded it to HR and told them I approve and the next paycheck I was making $65K plus.  HOLY SHIT!  Why is that so hard to believe?  Probably because no one in GA makes that kind of money including you.
> 
> My brother is like a level 3 VP at a fortune 500 and he makes $800K.  Do you not believe that either?  Who cares what you believe.
> 
> You know who I love?  The cons on here who get all bent out of shape because I don't pay taxes on my side gig.  Why would I?  They say it makes me a hypocrite because I cry that corporations don't pay their fair share.  Well you know what?  If you can't beat them, join them.  That's why I am slowly but surely becoming a conservative.  Not because I agree with them but because the poor people who vote GOP or don't vote at all make me sick.  If they don't get it and if they don't care, why should I care about them?
> 
> P.S.  Thanks for not believing I make what I make.  It's flattering to know I make an unbelievable amount compared to the rest of you.  Thanks for making me feel good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I won't comment on the off topic stuff.  We're going down too many roads.  But, this is my word to you:
> 
> I saw something many years ago and it told me a lot about a certain president and the drug trade.  A while back my wife and I watched a several part documentary on the subject:
> 
> America's War on Drugs (TV Mini-Series 2017) - IMDb
> 
> This is some related stuff on the subject:
> 
> America's War on Drugs Full Episodes, Video & More | HISTORY
> 
> Most people in Georgia don't make the kind of money you're talking about.  I raised a boy when he was sent to us by the state.  I went from foster parent to adopted father.  Well he's all grown up and got a job selling roofing jobs.  He was so proud of his first big paycheck that he texted me a copy of the $1900 check for one week.  Last month, he got his largest check for a single week: $4015.  Admittedly, other than the doctors, lawyers, judges and a couple of politicians I know, my adopted son is the highest paid person I personally know.
> 
> I'm friends with the Secretary of State; he is a millionaire, but I don't _"know_" him to the point that we see each other socially.
> 
> If you have the courage to watch that series, you'll have somewhat of a handle on my position.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I make $300 every day I wake up.  $300 x 365 days is?
Click to expand...


But some day you will have face the reality of your contribution to the demise of your own people.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just because you are an idiot does not make me clueless or causeless.  You are such a simpleton, you call me right wing and you've never had enough common sense to ASK what my cause is.  Now, I wouldn't even share that with you without an apology.
> 
> I can just laugh my ass off at you for being so smug about your stupidity, thinking you have something beneficial to say.
> 
> 
> 
> You are one of those freedom to fascism guys.  Basically a libertarian.  Libertarians are just the Republicans retarded cousins.  In some ways you are better than Republicans but in most ways you are worse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm one of those guys that 20 years ago were called "_conservative_."  I think multidimensional so labels probably won't work for you.
> 
> Since I don't do dope and think we're making a BIG mistake, it's hard to fit me into a Libertarian mold.  But, if labeling people as a diversion to discussing topics that you fear being wrong about works for you, go for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bruce Jenner doesn't like how Republicans treat gays but that doesn't mean he's not a Republican.  You don't like pot?  That doesn't mean you aren't a libertarian.  Even Ron Paul agrees with you that the income tax is unconstitutional.
> 
> Like I said before it doesn't matter if you are a Republican or Libertarian.  They're just two different nuts in a mixed bag of nuts.
> 
> And you don't get to tell us what you are.  We tell you what you are based on your comments.  Trust me dude, you're a libertarian.
> 
> And like you doubt me, I doubt you make the kind of money you say you make or that you own a business.  To me it sounds like you made all that up just to go along with your narrative.  Then you tell us an American worker asked you for $500 hr and you hired an illegal for $30 hr?  Whatever dude.  You sound more like a nut job than a small business owner.
> 
> And do you still own the business?  You spend way too much time on here to be running a business.  I bet your business did go under.
> 
> According to the U.S. *Small Business* Administration, over 50% of *small businesses fail* in the first year and 95% *fail* within the first five years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude, I'm in semi-retirement.  I think you are hilarious.  What country do you live in where self righteous smart asses get to determine what a man is as opposed to the man telling you what he is.
> 
> If I come out against drugs and abortion and the Libertarians are cool with that, I might just run as a Libertarian.  I'll explain the deal to you:
> 
> I got out of the hospital after major surgery.  So, I'm in stitches and can't get around.  The overflow valve on the water heater goes out and I tell my wife to pick up another one at Home Depot.
> 
> I call a plumber that wants $40 to make a "_service call_."  I tell him what's wrong and have the part.  He goes to his truck and after 40 minutes he comes back with a _"proposal_."  It was for $240 plus the $40 service charge.  I told him that I had already told him I was an ex Seabee.  I know what it takes to fix this freaking stuff.  I paid him $40 and gave him 40 seconds to be off my property.
> 
> I picked up the phone and called the first laborer I had a number for.  He came over and changed the overflow out in under 15 minutes.  I asked him what I owed him.  He said, you think $30 is reasonable?
> 
> Now, had Bubba done that job.  He would have gotten $280 for a 15 minute job.  That puts him at $1,120 an hour.  Are there not four 15 minute segments in an hour?  Allow for the trip out here and taxes, it works out to about $985 per hour.  *THAT* is why you have undocumented foreigners working jobs, making damn good money and allowing people to be able to live in and keep their homes.
> 
> Any person that would allow the Bubbas to take advantage of them are idiots.  Poor people; those on fixed incomes; those who are on disability... they cannot afford to pay you a surgeon's wages for a job where the skill set takes six months to learn and their lives aren't at stake.  So, those people are traitors for keeping their homes and not leaving it because some redneck with an over sized truck thinks he should be paid as much as a surgeon?  You are beyond foolish and anyone that reads your bullshit probably realizes that smokers ARE people with a low IQ.
> 
> Right now my business is the ministry.  I help people get back on their feet.  I help people in poor neighborhoods get repairs done for what they can afford.  On my end, I don't make much of anything.  I planned for my retirement.  But, son, these guys thinking they are going to go into neighborhoods and rip people off to appease folks like you are the real traitors... and so are you for not acknowledging the real problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree.  I paid an American $200 to detail my car.  I know I could have found an illegal to do it cheaper but I was glad to pay an American company an American wage.  That's the only way we are going to make America great again.  An illegal shouldn't even be an option.
> 
> I felt like maybe these guys doing car detailing and landscaping can finally charge a rate that will give them a good standard of living.  I don't mind paying a little more.  Hell, I paid a lot more.
> 
> Remember, I make $90K plus a year and I have no mortgage, no kids going to college and I paid off my college loans in 1995.
> 
> The funny thing about hiring illegals is that it's not poor Americans who need to save that are doing it.  It's rich guys like you.  This is just one reason the rich have gotten richer in the last few decades and the middle class has disappeared or shrunk.  I read somewhere that people who employ illegals save billions of dollars every year.  That means you are stealing from middle class and poor Americans.  It's not right.  And you are proving that class warfare does exist.  And you clearly don't respect American workers.  To you we are lazy and charge too much.  Funny, that's what we think about your company.
> 
> I have the luxury of working in Manufacturing and in Michigan.  A union state where labor still makes a pretty good living.  My brother just confirmed with me that the new company he just went to treats their employees like shit.  For decades he thought I was making that up.  Now that he works for a company that isn't in manufacturing, he is seeing that not all companies treat their employees like they should.
> 
> And that Koch company that got caught hiring all those illegals in Mississippi?  They pay $12.  That's shit.  And from the lawsuits I saw they went through, they too treat their employees like shit.  You cons and employers love it this way.  Where employees are helpless and have to take your shit and your $12 hr shitty job.
Click to expand...



You are full of it so your criticisms have little, if any, credibility.

My car is 11 years old.  No _"rich_" guy keeps his car that long.

I never pay less than $20 an hour.. that's more than anyone else in this business pays

Since I *only* cater to the poor and elderly you are completely nuts.  I provide services to people on Social Security, Disability, and fixed incomes.  I provide jobs, hopefully, to those who have been disenfranchised... that many years old conviction, an emotional breakdown over the loss of one's family, the guy trying to rebuild his life.

You're a pot seller.


----------



## Correll

Porter Rockwell said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm one of those guys that 20 years ago were called "_conservative_."  I think multidimensional so labels probably won't work for you.
> 
> Since I don't do dope and think we're making a BIG mistake, it's hard to fit me into a Libertarian mold.  But, if labeling people as a diversion to discussing topics that you fear being wrong about works for you, go for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce Jenner doesn't like how Republicans treat gays but that doesn't mean he's not a Republican.  You don't like pot?  That doesn't mean you aren't a libertarian.  Even Ron Paul agrees with you that the income tax is unconstitutional.
> 
> Like I said before it doesn't matter if you are a Republican or Libertarian.  They're just two different nuts in a mixed bag of nuts.
> 
> And you don't get to tell us what you are.  We tell you what you are based on your comments.  Trust me dude, you're a libertarian.
> 
> And like you doubt me, I doubt you make the kind of money you say you make or that you own a business.  To me it sounds like you made all that up just to go along with your narrative.  Then you tell us an American worker asked you for $500 hr and you hired an illegal for $30 hr?  Whatever dude.  You sound more like a nut job than a small business owner.
> 
> And do you still own the business?  You spend way too much time on here to be running a business.  I bet your business did go under.
> 
> According to the U.S. *Small Business* Administration, over 50% of *small businesses fail* in the first year and 95% *fail* within the first five years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude, I'm in semi-retirement.  I think you are hilarious.  What country do you live in where self righteous smart asses get to determine what a man is as opposed to the man telling you what he is.
> 
> If I come out against drugs and abortion and the Libertarians are cool with that, I might just run as a Libertarian.  I'll explain the deal to you:
> 
> I got out of the hospital after major surgery.  So, I'm in stitches and can't get around.  The overflow valve on the water heater goes out and I tell my wife to pick up another one at Home Depot.
> 
> I call a plumber that wants $40 to make a "_service call_."  I tell him what's wrong and have the part.  He goes to his truck and after 40 minutes he comes back with a _"proposal_."  It was for $240 plus the $40 service charge.  I told him that I had already told him I was an ex Seabee.  I know what it takes to fix this freaking stuff.  I paid him $40 and gave him 40 seconds to be off my property.
> 
> I picked up the phone and called the first laborer I had a number for.  He came over and changed the overflow out in under 15 minutes.  I asked him what I owed him.  He said, you think $30 is reasonable?
> 
> Now, had Bubba done that job.  He would have gotten $280 for a 15 minute job.  That puts him at $1,120 an hour.  Are there not four 15 minute segments in an hour?  Allow for the trip out here and taxes, it works out to about $985 per hour.  *THAT* is why you have undocumented foreigners working jobs, making damn good money and allowing people to be able to live in and keep their homes.
> 
> Any person that would allow the Bubbas to take advantage of them are idiots.  Poor people; those on fixed incomes; those who are on disability... they cannot afford to pay you a surgeon's wages for a job where the skill set takes six months to learn and their lives aren't at stake.  So, those people are traitors for keeping their homes and not leaving it because some redneck with an over sized truck thinks he should be paid as much as a surgeon?  You are beyond foolish and anyone that reads your bullshit probably realizes that smokers ARE people with a low IQ.
> 
> Right now my business is the ministry.  I help people get back on their feet.  I help people in poor neighborhoods get repairs done for what they can afford.  On my end, I don't make much of anything.  I planned for my retirement.  But, son, these guys thinking they are going to go into neighborhoods and rip people off to appease folks like you are the real traitors... and so are you for not acknowledging the real problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree.  I paid an American $200 to detail my car.  I know I could have found an illegal to do it cheaper but I was glad to pay an American company an American wage.  That's the only way we are going to make America great again.  An illegal shouldn't even be an option.
> 
> I felt like maybe these guys doing car detailing and landscaping can finally charge a rate that will give them a good standard of living.  I don't mind paying a little more.  Hell, I paid a lot more.
> 
> Remember, I make $90K plus a year and I have no mortgage, no kids going to college and I paid off my college loans in 1995.
> 
> The funny thing about hiring illegals is that it's not poor Americans who need to save that are doing it.  It's rich guys like you.  This is just one reason the rich have gotten richer in the last few decades and the middle class has disappeared or shrunk.  I read somewhere that people who employ illegals save billions of dollars every year.  That means you are stealing from middle class and poor Americans.  It's not right.  And you are proving that class warfare does exist.  And you clearly don't respect American workers.  To you we are lazy and charge too much.  Funny, that's what we think about your company.
> 
> I have the luxury of working in Manufacturing and in Michigan.  A union state where labor still makes a pretty good living.  My brother just confirmed with me that the new company he just went to treats their employees like shit.  For decades he thought I was making that up.  Now that he works for a company that isn't in manufacturing, he is seeing that not all companies treat their employees like they should.
> 
> And that Koch company that got caught hiring all those illegals in Mississippi?  They pay $12.  That's shit.  And from the lawsuits I saw they went through, they too treat their employees like shit.  You cons and employers love it this way.  Where employees are helpless and have to take your shit and your $12 hr shitty job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the thing I think we should remember. Me and you share a goal Seely, the best interests of the American citizens, individually and America as a whole.
> 
> 
> A lot of people, are not motivated by that, for different reasons.
> 
> 
> Rockwell, has ideological problems with the idea that American policy should be crafted to serve the interests of Americans.
> 
> 
> I've run into that kind of thinking a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Our policies cannot be crafted so as to make Americans choose between keeping their homes or losing them just because some people think a six month skill set is worth the same as the man who spent 8 years to learn his trade.
Click to expand...



Is that an admission that what I said was true? Actually yes, that is an admission that what I said was true. 


You just could not bring yourself to admit it clearly. 



Try again. Says something along the lines of, "Yes, that is true, I do not support having American policy based on serving American interests because of _______" and then explain why. 


Especially focus on how your reason is different than what I said. If it is.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Correll said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce Jenner doesn't like how Republicans treat gays but that doesn't mean he's not a Republican.  You don't like pot?  That doesn't mean you aren't a libertarian.  Even Ron Paul agrees with you that the income tax is unconstitutional.
> 
> Like I said before it doesn't matter if you are a Republican or Libertarian.  They're just two different nuts in a mixed bag of nuts.
> 
> And you don't get to tell us what you are.  We tell you what you are based on your comments.  Trust me dude, you're a libertarian.
> 
> And like you doubt me, I doubt you make the kind of money you say you make or that you own a business.  To me it sounds like you made all that up just to go along with your narrative.  Then you tell us an American worker asked you for $500 hr and you hired an illegal for $30 hr?  Whatever dude.  You sound more like a nut job than a small business owner.
> 
> And do you still own the business?  You spend way too much time on here to be running a business.  I bet your business did go under.
> 
> According to the U.S. *Small Business* Administration, over 50% of *small businesses fail* in the first year and 95% *fail* within the first five years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, I'm in semi-retirement.  I think you are hilarious.  What country do you live in where self righteous smart asses get to determine what a man is as opposed to the man telling you what he is.
> 
> If I come out against drugs and abortion and the Libertarians are cool with that, I might just run as a Libertarian.  I'll explain the deal to you:
> 
> I got out of the hospital after major surgery.  So, I'm in stitches and can't get around.  The overflow valve on the water heater goes out and I tell my wife to pick up another one at Home Depot.
> 
> I call a plumber that wants $40 to make a "_service call_."  I tell him what's wrong and have the part.  He goes to his truck and after 40 minutes he comes back with a _"proposal_."  It was for $240 plus the $40 service charge.  I told him that I had already told him I was an ex Seabee.  I know what it takes to fix this freaking stuff.  I paid him $40 and gave him 40 seconds to be off my property.
> 
> I picked up the phone and called the first laborer I had a number for.  He came over and changed the overflow out in under 15 minutes.  I asked him what I owed him.  He said, you think $30 is reasonable?
> 
> Now, had Bubba done that job.  He would have gotten $280 for a 15 minute job.  That puts him at $1,120 an hour.  Are there not four 15 minute segments in an hour?  Allow for the trip out here and taxes, it works out to about $985 per hour.  *THAT* is why you have undocumented foreigners working jobs, making damn good money and allowing people to be able to live in and keep their homes.
> 
> Any person that would allow the Bubbas to take advantage of them are idiots.  Poor people; those on fixed incomes; those who are on disability... they cannot afford to pay you a surgeon's wages for a job where the skill set takes six months to learn and their lives aren't at stake.  So, those people are traitors for keeping their homes and not leaving it because some redneck with an over sized truck thinks he should be paid as much as a surgeon?  You are beyond foolish and anyone that reads your bullshit probably realizes that smokers ARE people with a low IQ.
> 
> Right now my business is the ministry.  I help people get back on their feet.  I help people in poor neighborhoods get repairs done for what they can afford.  On my end, I don't make much of anything.  I planned for my retirement.  But, son, these guys thinking they are going to go into neighborhoods and rip people off to appease folks like you are the real traitors... and so are you for not acknowledging the real problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree.  I paid an American $200 to detail my car.  I know I could have found an illegal to do it cheaper but I was glad to pay an American company an American wage.  That's the only way we are going to make America great again.  An illegal shouldn't even be an option.
> 
> I felt like maybe these guys doing car detailing and landscaping can finally charge a rate that will give them a good standard of living.  I don't mind paying a little more.  Hell, I paid a lot more.
> 
> Remember, I make $90K plus a year and I have no mortgage, no kids going to college and I paid off my college loans in 1995.
> 
> The funny thing about hiring illegals is that it's not poor Americans who need to save that are doing it.  It's rich guys like you.  This is just one reason the rich have gotten richer in the last few decades and the middle class has disappeared or shrunk.  I read somewhere that people who employ illegals save billions of dollars every year.  That means you are stealing from middle class and poor Americans.  It's not right.  And you are proving that class warfare does exist.  And you clearly don't respect American workers.  To you we are lazy and charge too much.  Funny, that's what we think about your company.
> 
> I have the luxury of working in Manufacturing and in Michigan.  A union state where labor still makes a pretty good living.  My brother just confirmed with me that the new company he just went to treats their employees like shit.  For decades he thought I was making that up.  Now that he works for a company that isn't in manufacturing, he is seeing that not all companies treat their employees like they should.
> 
> And that Koch company that got caught hiring all those illegals in Mississippi?  They pay $12.  That's shit.  And from the lawsuits I saw they went through, they too treat their employees like shit.  You cons and employers love it this way.  Where employees are helpless and have to take your shit and your $12 hr shitty job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the thing I think we should remember. Me and you share a goal Seely, the best interests of the American citizens, individually and America as a whole.
> 
> 
> A lot of people, are not motivated by that, for different reasons.
> 
> 
> Rockwell, has ideological problems with the idea that American policy should be crafted to serve the interests of Americans.
> 
> 
> I've run into that kind of thinking a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Our policies cannot be crafted so as to make Americans choose between keeping their homes or losing them just because some people think a six month skill set is worth the same as the man who spent 8 years to learn his trade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is that an admission that what I said was true? Actually yes, that is an admission that what I said was true.
> 
> 
> You just could not bring yourself to admit it clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> Try again. Says something along the lines of, "Yes, that is true, I do not support having American policy based on serving American interests because of _______" and then explain why.
> 
> 
> Especially focus on how your reason is different than what I said. If it is.
Click to expand...


You're a liar and an idiot.  I help Americans every day.  That is the business I'm in.


----------



## Correll

Porter Rockwell said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, I'm in semi-retirement.  I think you are hilarious.  What country do you live in where self righteous smart asses get to determine what a man is as opposed to the man telling you what he is.
> 
> If I come out against drugs and abortion and the Libertarians are cool with that, I might just run as a Libertarian.  I'll explain the deal to you:
> 
> I got out of the hospital after major surgery.  So, I'm in stitches and can't get around.  The overflow valve on the water heater goes out and I tell my wife to pick up another one at Home Depot.
> 
> I call a plumber that wants $40 to make a "_service call_."  I tell him what's wrong and have the part.  He goes to his truck and after 40 minutes he comes back with a _"proposal_."  It was for $240 plus the $40 service charge.  I told him that I had already told him I was an ex Seabee.  I know what it takes to fix this freaking stuff.  I paid him $40 and gave him 40 seconds to be off my property.
> 
> I picked up the phone and called the first laborer I had a number for.  He came over and changed the overflow out in under 15 minutes.  I asked him what I owed him.  He said, you think $30 is reasonable?
> 
> Now, had Bubba done that job.  He would have gotten $280 for a 15 minute job.  That puts him at $1,120 an hour.  Are there not four 15 minute segments in an hour?  Allow for the trip out here and taxes, it works out to about $985 per hour.  *THAT* is why you have undocumented foreigners working jobs, making damn good money and allowing people to be able to live in and keep their homes.
> 
> Any person that would allow the Bubbas to take advantage of them are idiots.  Poor people; those on fixed incomes; those who are on disability... they cannot afford to pay you a surgeon's wages for a job where the skill set takes six months to learn and their lives aren't at stake.  So, those people are traitors for keeping their homes and not leaving it because some redneck with an over sized truck thinks he should be paid as much as a surgeon?  You are beyond foolish and anyone that reads your bullshit probably realizes that smokers ARE people with a low IQ.
> 
> Right now my business is the ministry.  I help people get back on their feet.  I help people in poor neighborhoods get repairs done for what they can afford.  On my end, I don't make much of anything.  I planned for my retirement.  But, son, these guys thinking they are going to go into neighborhoods and rip people off to appease folks like you are the real traitors... and so are you for not acknowledging the real problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  I paid an American $200 to detail my car.  I know I could have found an illegal to do it cheaper but I was glad to pay an American company an American wage.  That's the only way we are going to make America great again.  An illegal shouldn't even be an option.
> 
> I felt like maybe these guys doing car detailing and landscaping can finally charge a rate that will give them a good standard of living.  I don't mind paying a little more.  Hell, I paid a lot more.
> 
> Remember, I make $90K plus a year and I have no mortgage, no kids going to college and I paid off my college loans in 1995.
> 
> The funny thing about hiring illegals is that it's not poor Americans who need to save that are doing it.  It's rich guys like you.  This is just one reason the rich have gotten richer in the last few decades and the middle class has disappeared or shrunk.  I read somewhere that people who employ illegals save billions of dollars every year.  That means you are stealing from middle class and poor Americans.  It's not right.  And you are proving that class warfare does exist.  And you clearly don't respect American workers.  To you we are lazy and charge too much.  Funny, that's what we think about your company.
> 
> I have the luxury of working in Manufacturing and in Michigan.  A union state where labor still makes a pretty good living.  My brother just confirmed with me that the new company he just went to treats their employees like shit.  For decades he thought I was making that up.  Now that he works for a company that isn't in manufacturing, he is seeing that not all companies treat their employees like they should.
> 
> And that Koch company that got caught hiring all those illegals in Mississippi?  They pay $12.  That's shit.  And from the lawsuits I saw they went through, they too treat their employees like shit.  You cons and employers love it this way.  Where employees are helpless and have to take your shit and your $12 hr shitty job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the thing I think we should remember. Me and you share a goal Seely, the best interests of the American citizens, individually and America as a whole.
> 
> 
> A lot of people, are not motivated by that, for different reasons.
> 
> 
> Rockwell, has ideological problems with the idea that American policy should be crafted to serve the interests of Americans.
> 
> 
> I've run into that kind of thinking a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Our policies cannot be crafted so as to make Americans choose between keeping their homes or losing them just because some people think a six month skill set is worth the same as the man who spent 8 years to learn his trade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is that an admission that what I said was true? Actually yes, that is an admission that what I said was true.
> 
> 
> You just could not bring yourself to admit it clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> Try again. Says something along the lines of, "Yes, that is true, I do not support having American policy based on serving American interests because of _______" and then explain why.
> 
> 
> Especially focus on how your reason is different than what I said. If it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a liar and an idiot.  I help Americans every day.  That is the business I'm in.
Click to expand...



If I was a liar and an idiot, you would not have just tried to change the subject.


You have ideological issues with the idea of crafting American government policy with the intent of serving the interests of American citizens.


YOu consider doing that, morally and ethnically, and perhaps even legally "wrong".


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Correll said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  I paid an American $200 to detail my car.  I know I could have found an illegal to do it cheaper but I was glad to pay an American company an American wage.  That's the only way we are going to make America great again.  An illegal shouldn't even be an option.
> 
> I felt like maybe these guys doing car detailing and landscaping can finally charge a rate that will give them a good standard of living.  I don't mind paying a little more.  Hell, I paid a lot more.
> 
> Remember, I make $90K plus a year and I have no mortgage, no kids going to college and I paid off my college loans in 1995.
> 
> The funny thing about hiring illegals is that it's not poor Americans who need to save that are doing it.  It's rich guys like you.  This is just one reason the rich have gotten richer in the last few decades and the middle class has disappeared or shrunk.  I read somewhere that people who employ illegals save billions of dollars every year.  That means you are stealing from middle class and poor Americans.  It's not right.  And you are proving that class warfare does exist.  And you clearly don't respect American workers.  To you we are lazy and charge too much.  Funny, that's what we think about your company.
> 
> I have the luxury of working in Manufacturing and in Michigan.  A union state where labor still makes a pretty good living.  My brother just confirmed with me that the new company he just went to treats their employees like shit.  For decades he thought I was making that up.  Now that he works for a company that isn't in manufacturing, he is seeing that not all companies treat their employees like they should.
> 
> And that Koch company that got caught hiring all those illegals in Mississippi?  They pay $12.  That's shit.  And from the lawsuits I saw they went through, they too treat their employees like shit.  You cons and employers love it this way.  Where employees are helpless and have to take your shit and your $12 hr shitty job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the thing I think we should remember. Me and you share a goal Seely, the best interests of the American citizens, individually and America as a whole.
> 
> 
> A lot of people, are not motivated by that, for different reasons.
> 
> 
> Rockwell, has ideological problems with the idea that American policy should be crafted to serve the interests of Americans.
> 
> 
> I've run into that kind of thinking a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Our policies cannot be crafted so as to make Americans choose between keeping their homes or losing them just because some people think a six month skill set is worth the same as the man who spent 8 years to learn his trade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is that an admission that what I said was true? Actually yes, that is an admission that what I said was true.
> 
> 
> You just could not bring yourself to admit it clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> Try again. Says something along the lines of, "Yes, that is true, I do not support having American policy based on serving American interests because of _______" and then explain why.
> 
> 
> Especially focus on how your reason is different than what I said. If it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a liar and an idiot.  I help Americans every day.  That is the business I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If I was a liar and an idiot, you would not have just tried to change the subject.
> 
> 
> You have ideological issues with the idea of crafting American government policy with the intent of serving the interests of American citizens.
> 
> 
> YOu consider doing that, morally and ethnically, and perhaps even legally "wrong".
Click to expand...


I did not change the subject.  Are you asking me what I think or *TELLING* me what I think?


----------



## Correll

Porter Rockwell said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the thing I think we should remember. Me and you share a goal Seely, the best interests of the American citizens, individually and America as a whole.
> 
> 
> A lot of people, are not motivated by that, for different reasons.
> 
> 
> Rockwell, has ideological problems with the idea that American policy should be crafted to serve the interests of Americans.
> 
> 
> I've run into that kind of thinking a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our policies cannot be crafted so as to make Americans choose between keeping their homes or losing them just because some people think a six month skill set is worth the same as the man who spent 8 years to learn his trade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is that an admission that what I said was true? Actually yes, that is an admission that what I said was true.
> 
> 
> You just could not bring yourself to admit it clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> Try again. Says something along the lines of, "Yes, that is true, I do not support having American policy based on serving American interests because of _______" and then explain why.
> 
> 
> Especially focus on how your reason is different than what I said. If it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a liar and an idiot.  I help Americans every day.  That is the business I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If I was a liar and an idiot, you would not have just tried to change the subject.
> 
> 
> You have ideological issues with the idea of crafting American government policy with the intent of serving the interests of American citizens.
> 
> 
> YOu consider doing that, morally and ethnically, and perhaps even legally "wrong".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did not change the subject.  Are you asking me what I think or *TELLING* me what I think?
Click to expand...



I'm telling Seely, what your ideology is, based on our many discussions of national policy.


If I got something wrong, then tell us what I got wrong, and what your real position is.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> it means you are simply clueless and Causeless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just because you are an idiot does not make me clueless or causeless.  You are such a simpleton, you call me right wing and you've never had enough common sense to ASK what my cause is.  Now, I wouldn't even share that with you without an apology.
> 
> I can just laugh my ass off at you for being so smug about your stupidity, thinking you have something beneficial to say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> only the incompetent, say that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a legend in your own mind.  You need some new material.  You don't hold a monopoly on understanding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I cited our California State Constitution a few posts back.  You still have nothing but fallacy instead of Any valid arguments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You've never quoted anything and California doesn't apply to me.  If you told a judge that his rulings were fallacy, he'd probably tell you that you were in contempt of court.  So, you know what I think about your idiotic bullshit.  BTW, you need some new material.
Click to expand...

lol.  you don't know what you are talking about.

I cited our California State Constitution regarding natural rights.  They are available via Due Process not our Second Amendment.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Correll said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our policies cannot be crafted so as to make Americans choose between keeping their homes or losing them just because some people think a six month skill set is worth the same as the man who spent 8 years to learn his trade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that an admission that what I said was true? Actually yes, that is an admission that what I said was true.
> 
> 
> You just could not bring yourself to admit it clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> Try again. Says something along the lines of, "Yes, that is true, I do not support having American policy based on serving American interests because of _______" and then explain why.
> 
> 
> Especially focus on how your reason is different than what I said. If it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a liar and an idiot.  I help Americans every day.  That is the business I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If I was a liar and an idiot, you would not have just tried to change the subject.
> 
> 
> You have ideological issues with the idea of crafting American government policy with the intent of serving the interests of American citizens.
> 
> 
> YOu consider doing that, morally and ethnically, and perhaps even legally "wrong".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did not change the subject.  Are you asking me what I think or *TELLING* me what I think?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm telling Seely, what your ideology is, based on our many discussions of national policy.
> 
> 
> If I got something wrong, then tell us what I got wrong, and what your real position is.
Click to expand...


If you gave a shit what my personal feelings and beliefs are, you would have *ASKED* before presuming.  Do you see how productive and possible working relationships don't come to be because one thinks he's a freaking mind reader?

If someone wants to know what I think, they will ask.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just because you are an idiot does not make me clueless or causeless.  You are such a simpleton, you call me right wing and you've never had enough common sense to ASK what my cause is.  Now, I wouldn't even share that with you without an apology.
> 
> I can just laugh my ass off at you for being so smug about your stupidity, thinking you have something beneficial to say.
> 
> 
> 
> only the incompetent, say that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a legend in your own mind.  You need some new material.  You don't hold a monopoly on understanding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I cited our California State Constitution a few posts back.  You still have nothing but fallacy instead of Any valid arguments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You've never quoted anything and California doesn't apply to me.  If you told a judge that his rulings were fallacy, he'd probably tell you that you were in contempt of court.  So, you know what I think about your idiotic bullshit.  BTW, you need some new material.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol.  you don't know what you are talking about.
> 
> I cited our California State Constitution regarding natural rights.  They are available via Due Process not our Second Amendment.
Click to expand...


No you didn't.  I have some time on my hands.  Do you want to retain me at 40 percent of what we can get if you sue your brains for non-support?


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

sealybobo said:


> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"


Employers hiring undocumented workers is not an issue for Republicans; most rightwing demagogues would rather lie about ‘Hispanic invaders.’


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> only the incompetent, say that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're a legend in your own mind.  You need some new material.  You don't hold a monopoly on understanding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I cited our California State Constitution a few posts back.  You still have nothing but fallacy instead of Any valid arguments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You've never quoted anything and California doesn't apply to me.  If you told a judge that his rulings were fallacy, he'd probably tell you that you were in contempt of court.  So, you know what I think about your idiotic bullshit.  BTW, you need some new material.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol.  you don't know what you are talking about.
> 
> I cited our California State Constitution regarding natural rights.  They are available via Due Process not our Second Amendment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No you didn't.  I have some time on my hands.  Do you want to retain me at 40 percent of what we can get if you sue your brains for non-support?
Click to expand...

it is in post number one hundred.  i don't need to make excuses.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're a legend in your own mind.  You need some new material.  You don't hold a monopoly on understanding.
> 
> 
> 
> I cited our California State Constitution a few posts back.  You still have nothing but fallacy instead of Any valid arguments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You've never quoted anything and California doesn't apply to me.  If you told a judge that his rulings were fallacy, he'd probably tell you that you were in contempt of court.  So, you know what I think about your idiotic bullshit.  BTW, you need some new material.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol.  you don't know what you are talking about.
> 
> I cited our California State Constitution regarding natural rights.  They are available via Due Process not our Second Amendment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No you didn't.  I have some time on my hands.  Do you want to retain me at 40 percent of what we can get if you sue your brains for non-support?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it is in post number one hundred.  i don't need to make excuses.
Click to expand...


Yawn


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> I cited our California State Constitution a few posts back.  You still have nothing but fallacy instead of Any valid arguments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've never quoted anything and California doesn't apply to me.  If you told a judge that his rulings were fallacy, he'd probably tell you that you were in contempt of court.  So, you know what I think about your idiotic bullshit.  BTW, you need some new material.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol.  you don't know what you are talking about.
> 
> I cited our California State Constitution regarding natural rights.  They are available via Due Process not our Second Amendment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No you didn't.  I have some time on my hands.  Do you want to retain me at 40 percent of what we can get if you sue your brains for non-support?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it is in post number one hundred.  i don't need to make excuses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yawn
Click to expand...

Natural rights are recognized and secured in State Constitutions and available via Due Process not our Second Amendment.  How can you be an attorney and not know this?


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> You've never quoted anything and California doesn't apply to me.  If you told a judge that his rulings were fallacy, he'd probably tell you that you were in contempt of court.  So, you know what I think about your idiotic bullshit.  BTW, you need some new material.
> 
> 
> 
> lol.  you don't know what you are talking about.
> 
> I cited our California State Constitution regarding natural rights.  They are available via Due Process not our Second Amendment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No you didn't.  I have some time on my hands.  Do you want to retain me at 40 percent of what we can get if you sue your brains for non-support?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it is in post number one hundred.  i don't need to make excuses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Natural rights are recognized and secured in State Constitutions and available via Due Process not our Second Amendment.  How can you be an attorney and not know this?
Click to expand...


It's not true.  If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.  BTW, I'm semi - retired.  This is being offered as a courtesy.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm one of those guys that 20 years ago were called "_conservative_."  I think multidimensional so labels probably won't work for you.
> 
> Since I don't do dope and think we're making a BIG mistake, it's hard to fit me into a Libertarian mold.  But, if labeling people as a diversion to discussing topics that you fear being wrong about works for you, go for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce Jenner doesn't like how Republicans treat gays but that doesn't mean he's not a Republican.  You don't like pot?  That doesn't mean you aren't a libertarian.  Even Ron Paul agrees with you that the income tax is unconstitutional.
> 
> Like I said before it doesn't matter if you are a Republican or Libertarian.  They're just two different nuts in a mixed bag of nuts.
> 
> And you don't get to tell us what you are.  We tell you what you are based on your comments.  Trust me dude, you're a libertarian.
> 
> And like you doubt me, I doubt you make the kind of money you say you make or that you own a business.  To me it sounds like you made all that up just to go along with your narrative.  Then you tell us an American worker asked you for $500 hr and you hired an illegal for $30 hr?  Whatever dude.  You sound more like a nut job than a small business owner.
> 
> And do you still own the business?  You spend way too much time on here to be running a business.  I bet your business did go under.
> 
> According to the U.S. *Small Business* Administration, over 50% of *small businesses fail* in the first year and 95% *fail* within the first five years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude, I'm in semi-retirement.  I think you are hilarious.  What country do you live in where self righteous smart asses get to determine what a man is as opposed to the man telling you what he is.
> 
> If I come out against drugs and abortion and the Libertarians are cool with that, I might just run as a Libertarian.  I'll explain the deal to you:
> 
> I got out of the hospital after major surgery.  So, I'm in stitches and can't get around.  The overflow valve on the water heater goes out and I tell my wife to pick up another one at Home Depot.
> 
> I call a plumber that wants $40 to make a "_service call_."  I tell him what's wrong and have the part.  He goes to his truck and after 40 minutes he comes back with a _"proposal_."  It was for $240 plus the $40 service charge.  I told him that I had already told him I was an ex Seabee.  I know what it takes to fix this freaking stuff.  I paid him $40 and gave him 40 seconds to be off my property.
> 
> I picked up the phone and called the first laborer I had a number for.  He came over and changed the overflow out in under 15 minutes.  I asked him what I owed him.  He said, you think $30 is reasonable?
> 
> Now, had Bubba done that job.  He would have gotten $280 for a 15 minute job.  That puts him at $1,120 an hour.  Are there not four 15 minute segments in an hour?  Allow for the trip out here and taxes, it works out to about $985 per hour.  *THAT* is why you have undocumented foreigners working jobs, making damn good money and allowing people to be able to live in and keep their homes.
> 
> Any person that would allow the Bubbas to take advantage of them are idiots.  Poor people; those on fixed incomes; those who are on disability... they cannot afford to pay you a surgeon's wages for a job where the skill set takes six months to learn and their lives aren't at stake.  So, those people are traitors for keeping their homes and not leaving it because some redneck with an over sized truck thinks he should be paid as much as a surgeon?  You are beyond foolish and anyone that reads your bullshit probably realizes that smokers ARE people with a low IQ.
> 
> Right now my business is the ministry.  I help people get back on their feet.  I help people in poor neighborhoods get repairs done for what they can afford.  On my end, I don't make much of anything.  I planned for my retirement.  But, son, these guys thinking they are going to go into neighborhoods and rip people off to appease folks like you are the real traitors... and so are you for not acknowledging the real problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree.  I paid an American $200 to detail my car.  I know I could have found an illegal to do it cheaper but I was glad to pay an American company an American wage.  That's the only way we are going to make America great again.  An illegal shouldn't even be an option.
> 
> I felt like maybe these guys doing car detailing and landscaping can finally charge a rate that will give them a good standard of living.  I don't mind paying a little more.  Hell, I paid a lot more.
> 
> Remember, I make $90K plus a year and I have no mortgage, no kids going to college and I paid off my college loans in 1995.
> 
> The funny thing about hiring illegals is that it's not poor Americans who need to save that are doing it.  It's rich guys like you.  This is just one reason the rich have gotten richer in the last few decades and the middle class has disappeared or shrunk.  I read somewhere that people who employ illegals save billions of dollars every year.  That means you are stealing from middle class and poor Americans.  It's not right.  And you are proving that class warfare does exist.  And you clearly don't respect American workers.  To you we are lazy and charge too much.  Funny, that's what we think about your company.
> 
> I have the luxury of working in Manufacturing and in Michigan.  A union state where labor still makes a pretty good living.  My brother just confirmed with me that the new company he just went to treats their employees like shit.  For decades he thought I was making that up.  Now that he works for a company that isn't in manufacturing, he is seeing that not all companies treat their employees like they should.
> 
> And that Koch company that got caught hiring all those illegals in Mississippi?  They pay $12.  That's shit.  And from the lawsuits I saw they went through, they too treat their employees like shit.  You cons and employers love it this way.  Where employees are helpless and have to take your shit and your $12 hr shitty job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the thing I think we should remember. Me and you share a goal Seely, the best interests of the American citizens, individually and America as a whole.
> 
> 
> A lot of people, are not motivated by that, for different reasons.
> 
> 
> Rockwell, has ideological problems with the idea that American policy should be crafted to serve the interests of Americans.
> 
> 
> I've run into that kind of thinking a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Our policies cannot be crafted so as to make Americans choose between keeping their homes or losing them just because some people think a six month skill set is worth the same as the man who spent 8 years to learn his trade.
Click to expand...

Those aren’t our only two choices.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol.  you don't know what you are talking about.
> 
> I cited our California State Constitution regarding natural rights.  They are available via Due Process not our Second Amendment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No you didn't.  I have some time on my hands.  Do you want to retain me at 40 percent of what we can get if you sue your brains for non-support?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it is in post number one hundred.  i don't need to make excuses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Natural rights are recognized and secured in State Constitutions and available via Due Process not our Second Amendment.  How can you be an attorney and not know this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not true.  If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.  BTW, I'm semi - retired.  This is being offered as a courtesy.
Click to expand...

You obviously don't know how the law works under our form of federalism.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I work very hard from 8-5pm but in between I come here to relax like some people go outside and smoke.
> 
> I'm not lying.  I make a $65K base and I'm going to probably sell 2 million this year.  I get 1.5% commission.  That's $30K in commission.  So how much will I make at my real job?  Around $95K.  Then I have a side business where I make $20K clear money.  No taxes on that money.
> 
> And I have no kids, no student loans, my car is paid off.  I'm fucking loaded.
> 
> And my brother and his conservative friends say I have become much more conservative ever since I started making this kind of money.  Trust me, I still think Democrats are better for me and people who make less than me.  But one thing is for sure.  Republican policies won't stop me from retiring at 62.  But that's not true for 90% of the people who think they are middle class but not saving enough to retire.  If they aren't saving enough to retire at 67 then how can they call themselves middle class?
> 
> I love it when cons here doubt a liberal is capable of making good money.
> 
> P.S.  You are right.  I do come here too much.  Bye.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you're peddling illegal drugs, you are probably blowing smoke.  Living in a fantasy world is a good thing.  BTW, the truth be known, the liberals control more of the big money than the Goofy Old Party.
> 
> You shouldn't worry.  After Trump shows his real liberal true colors and enacts gun control, there won't be any Republican Party to worry about.  They only exist because Democrats are socialists and intelligent people realize socialism don't work - unless you are like Donnie the Dictator Trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't think public schools work?  You don't think medicare works?
> 
> Why do they have to be illegal drugs?  I'm in MI.  We just made pot legal.  I just don't pay taxes on my profits.
> 
> I'm not lying.  I started at my company making $40K 5 years ago.  I doubled aftermarket sales and after the first year the president only gave me a $10K raise.  The next year I tripled sales and the new president bumped me up to $65K plus 1.5% commission.  Trust me, I just about shit when he gave that to me too.  It was going to be $50K or $60K plus and when I got back to my desk the email said $65K plus 1.5% commission.  I thought, "maybe it was a mistake" but before he could take it back I forwarded it to HR and told them I approve and the next paycheck I was making $65K plus.  HOLY SHIT!  Why is that so hard to believe?  Probably because no one in GA makes that kind of money including you.
> 
> My brother is like a level 3 VP at a fortune 500 and he makes $800K.  Do you not believe that either?  Who cares what you believe.
> 
> You know who I love?  The cons on here who get all bent out of shape because I don't pay taxes on my side gig.  Why would I?  They say it makes me a hypocrite because I cry that corporations don't pay their fair share.  Well you know what?  If you can't beat them, join them.  That's why I am slowly but surely becoming a conservative.  Not because I agree with them but because the poor people who vote GOP or don't vote at all make me sick.  If they don't get it and if they don't care, why should I care about them?
> 
> P.S.  Thanks for not believing I make what I make.  It's flattering to know I make an unbelievable amount compared to the rest of you.  Thanks for making me feel good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I won't comment on the off topic stuff.  We're going down too many roads.  But, this is my word to you:
> 
> I saw something many years ago and it told me a lot about a certain president and the drug trade.  A while back my wife and I watched a several part documentary on the subject:
> 
> America's War on Drugs (TV Mini-Series 2017) - IMDb
> 
> This is some related stuff on the subject:
> 
> America's War on Drugs Full Episodes, Video & More | HISTORY
> 
> Most people in Georgia don't make the kind of money you're talking about.  I raised a boy when he was sent to us by the state.  I went from foster parent to adopted father.  Well he's all grown up and got a job selling roofing jobs.  He was so proud of his first big paycheck that he texted me a copy of the $1900 check for one week.  Last month, he got his largest check for a single week: $4015.  Admittedly, other than the doctors, lawyers, judges and a couple of politicians I know, my adopted son is the highest paid person I personally know.
> 
> I'm friends with the Secretary of State; he is a millionaire, but I don't _"know_" him to the point that we see each other socially.
> 
> If you have the courage to watch that series, you'll have somewhat of a handle on my position.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I make $300 every day I wake up.  $300 x 365 days is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But some day you will have face the reality of your contribution to the demise of your own people.
Click to expand...

What demise? Smoking pot? It’s called freedom.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are one of those freedom to fascism guys.  Basically a libertarian.  Libertarians are just the Republicans retarded cousins.  In some ways you are better than Republicans but in most ways you are worse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm one of those guys that 20 years ago were called "_conservative_."  I think multidimensional so labels probably won't work for you.
> 
> Since I don't do dope and think we're making a BIG mistake, it's hard to fit me into a Libertarian mold.  But, if labeling people as a diversion to discussing topics that you fear being wrong about works for you, go for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bruce Jenner doesn't like how Republicans treat gays but that doesn't mean he's not a Republican.  You don't like pot?  That doesn't mean you aren't a libertarian.  Even Ron Paul agrees with you that the income tax is unconstitutional.
> 
> Like I said before it doesn't matter if you are a Republican or Libertarian.  They're just two different nuts in a mixed bag of nuts.
> 
> And you don't get to tell us what you are.  We tell you what you are based on your comments.  Trust me dude, you're a libertarian.
> 
> And like you doubt me, I doubt you make the kind of money you say you make or that you own a business.  To me it sounds like you made all that up just to go along with your narrative.  Then you tell us an American worker asked you for $500 hr and you hired an illegal for $30 hr?  Whatever dude.  You sound more like a nut job than a small business owner.
> 
> And do you still own the business?  You spend way too much time on here to be running a business.  I bet your business did go under.
> 
> According to the U.S. *Small Business* Administration, over 50% of *small businesses fail* in the first year and 95% *fail* within the first five years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude, I'm in semi-retirement.  I think you are hilarious.  What country do you live in where self righteous smart asses get to determine what a man is as opposed to the man telling you what he is.
> 
> If I come out against drugs and abortion and the Libertarians are cool with that, I might just run as a Libertarian.  I'll explain the deal to you:
> 
> I got out of the hospital after major surgery.  So, I'm in stitches and can't get around.  The overflow valve on the water heater goes out and I tell my wife to pick up another one at Home Depot.
> 
> I call a plumber that wants $40 to make a "_service call_."  I tell him what's wrong and have the part.  He goes to his truck and after 40 minutes he comes back with a _"proposal_."  It was for $240 plus the $40 service charge.  I told him that I had already told him I was an ex Seabee.  I know what it takes to fix this freaking stuff.  I paid him $40 and gave him 40 seconds to be off my property.
> 
> I picked up the phone and called the first laborer I had a number for.  He came over and changed the overflow out in under 15 minutes.  I asked him what I owed him.  He said, you think $30 is reasonable?
> 
> Now, had Bubba done that job.  He would have gotten $280 for a 15 minute job.  That puts him at $1,120 an hour.  Are there not four 15 minute segments in an hour?  Allow for the trip out here and taxes, it works out to about $985 per hour.  *THAT* is why you have undocumented foreigners working jobs, making damn good money and allowing people to be able to live in and keep their homes.
> 
> Any person that would allow the Bubbas to take advantage of them are idiots.  Poor people; those on fixed incomes; those who are on disability... they cannot afford to pay you a surgeon's wages for a job where the skill set takes six months to learn and their lives aren't at stake.  So, those people are traitors for keeping their homes and not leaving it because some redneck with an over sized truck thinks he should be paid as much as a surgeon?  You are beyond foolish and anyone that reads your bullshit probably realizes that smokers ARE people with a low IQ.
> 
> Right now my business is the ministry.  I help people get back on their feet.  I help people in poor neighborhoods get repairs done for what they can afford.  On my end, I don't make much of anything.  I planned for my retirement.  But, son, these guys thinking they are going to go into neighborhoods and rip people off to appease folks like you are the real traitors... and so are you for not acknowledging the real problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree.  I paid an American $200 to detail my car.  I know I could have found an illegal to do it cheaper but I was glad to pay an American company an American wage.  That's the only way we are going to make America great again.  An illegal shouldn't even be an option.
> 
> I felt like maybe these guys doing car detailing and landscaping can finally charge a rate that will give them a good standard of living.  I don't mind paying a little more.  Hell, I paid a lot more.
> 
> Remember, I make $90K plus a year and I have no mortgage, no kids going to college and I paid off my college loans in 1995.
> 
> The funny thing about hiring illegals is that it's not poor Americans who need to save that are doing it.  It's rich guys like you.  This is just one reason the rich have gotten richer in the last few decades and the middle class has disappeared or shrunk.  I read somewhere that people who employ illegals save billions of dollars every year.  That means you are stealing from middle class and poor Americans.  It's not right.  And you are proving that class warfare does exist.  And you clearly don't respect American workers.  To you we are lazy and charge too much.  Funny, that's what we think about your company.
> 
> I have the luxury of working in Manufacturing and in Michigan.  A union state where labor still makes a pretty good living.  My brother just confirmed with me that the new company he just went to treats their employees like shit.  For decades he thought I was making that up.  Now that he works for a company that isn't in manufacturing, he is seeing that not all companies treat their employees like they should.
> 
> And that Koch company that got caught hiring all those illegals in Mississippi?  They pay $12.  That's shit.  And from the lawsuits I saw they went through, they too treat their employees like shit.  You cons and employers love it this way.  Where employees are helpless and have to take your shit and your $12 hr shitty job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are full of it so your criticisms have little, if any, credibility.
> 
> My car is 11 years old.  No _"rich_" guy keeps his car that long.
> 
> I never pay less than $20 an hour.. that's more than anyone else in this business pays
> 
> Since I *only* cater to the poor and elderly you are completely nuts.  I provide services to people on Social Security, Disability, and fixed incomes.  I provide jobs, hopefully, to those who have been disenfranchised... that many years old conviction, an emotional breakdown over the loss of one's family, the guy trying to rebuild his life.
> 
> You're a pot seller.
Click to expand...

Hey I respect what you do. And if you ain’t getting rich you should only be paying day laborers $20 hr.

Correll and I want to cut immigration down so much that it forces wages up.

Of course we will all pay a little more for American workers but it’s worth it. That person will be raising a family on the income.

The workers will share the profits. Otherwise they’ll work somewhere else.

You prove the value of unions. They brought wages up because people could get a good union job not bottom rates from you.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, I'm in semi-retirement.  I think you are hilarious.  What country do you live in where self righteous smart asses get to determine what a man is as opposed to the man telling you what he is.
> 
> If I come out against drugs and abortion and the Libertarians are cool with that, I might just run as a Libertarian.  I'll explain the deal to you:
> 
> I got out of the hospital after major surgery.  So, I'm in stitches and can't get around.  The overflow valve on the water heater goes out and I tell my wife to pick up another one at Home Depot.
> 
> I call a plumber that wants $40 to make a "_service call_."  I tell him what's wrong and have the part.  He goes to his truck and after 40 minutes he comes back with a _"proposal_."  It was for $240 plus the $40 service charge.  I told him that I had already told him I was an ex Seabee.  I know what it takes to fix this freaking stuff.  I paid him $40 and gave him 40 seconds to be off my property.
> 
> I picked up the phone and called the first laborer I had a number for.  He came over and changed the overflow out in under 15 minutes.  I asked him what I owed him.  He said, you think $30 is reasonable?
> 
> Now, had Bubba done that job.  He would have gotten $280 for a 15 minute job.  That puts him at $1,120 an hour.  Are there not four 15 minute segments in an hour?  Allow for the trip out here and taxes, it works out to about $985 per hour.  *THAT* is why you have undocumented foreigners working jobs, making damn good money and allowing people to be able to live in and keep their homes.
> 
> Any person that would allow the Bubbas to take advantage of them are idiots.  Poor people; those on fixed incomes; those who are on disability... they cannot afford to pay you a surgeon's wages for a job where the skill set takes six months to learn and their lives aren't at stake.  So, those people are traitors for keeping their homes and not leaving it because some redneck with an over sized truck thinks he should be paid as much as a surgeon?  You are beyond foolish and anyone that reads your bullshit probably realizes that smokers ARE people with a low IQ.
> 
> Right now my business is the ministry.  I help people get back on their feet.  I help people in poor neighborhoods get repairs done for what they can afford.  On my end, I don't make much of anything.  I planned for my retirement.  But, son, these guys thinking they are going to go into neighborhoods and rip people off to appease folks like you are the real traitors... and so are you for not acknowledging the real problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  I paid an American $200 to detail my car.  I know I could have found an illegal to do it cheaper but I was glad to pay an American company an American wage.  That's the only way we are going to make America great again.  An illegal shouldn't even be an option.
> 
> I felt like maybe these guys doing car detailing and landscaping can finally charge a rate that will give them a good standard of living.  I don't mind paying a little more.  Hell, I paid a lot more.
> 
> Remember, I make $90K plus a year and I have no mortgage, no kids going to college and I paid off my college loans in 1995.
> 
> The funny thing about hiring illegals is that it's not poor Americans who need to save that are doing it.  It's rich guys like you.  This is just one reason the rich have gotten richer in the last few decades and the middle class has disappeared or shrunk.  I read somewhere that people who employ illegals save billions of dollars every year.  That means you are stealing from middle class and poor Americans.  It's not right.  And you are proving that class warfare does exist.  And you clearly don't respect American workers.  To you we are lazy and charge too much.  Funny, that's what we think about your company.
> 
> I have the luxury of working in Manufacturing and in Michigan.  A union state where labor still makes a pretty good living.  My brother just confirmed with me that the new company he just went to treats their employees like shit.  For decades he thought I was making that up.  Now that he works for a company that isn't in manufacturing, he is seeing that not all companies treat their employees like they should.
> 
> And that Koch company that got caught hiring all those illegals in Mississippi?  They pay $12.  That's shit.  And from the lawsuits I saw they went through, they too treat their employees like shit.  You cons and employers love it this way.  Where employees are helpless and have to take your shit and your $12 hr shitty job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the thing I think we should remember. Me and you share a goal Seely, the best interests of the American citizens, individually and America as a whole.
> 
> 
> A lot of people, are not motivated by that, for different reasons.
> 
> 
> Rockwell, has ideological problems with the idea that American policy should be crafted to serve the interests of Americans.
> 
> 
> I've run into that kind of thinking a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Our policies cannot be crafted so as to make Americans choose between keeping their homes or losing them just because some people think a six month skill set is worth the same as the man who spent 8 years to learn his trade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is that an admission that what I said was true? Actually yes, that is an admission that what I said was true.
> 
> 
> You just could not bring yourself to admit it clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> Try again. Says something along the lines of, "Yes, that is true, I do not support having American policy based on serving American interests because of _______" and then explain why.
> 
> 
> Especially focus on how your reason is different than what I said. If it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a liar and an idiot.  I help Americans every day.  That is the business I'm in.
Click to expand...

Before I landed the great corporate gig I have now I worked for a guy just lik you. He had a small business and he helped people who needed work but he payed very little.

I appreciated the job and it was my fault for taking it but I needed the work. He sort of lied about commissions and kept raising the sales goals, thus keeping me pretty much never making nothing, while growing his business.

But, it was my fault for taking the job. He kept saying show me what you got but never wanted to pay off.

Anyways, long story short is he also wrote me a great letter of recommendation that got me this great corporate gig. Good thing I left on good terms.

So in some ways I appreciate him and you, and part of me wants to kick you in the balls.

P.s. I treat small businesses differently than I do corporations. The Fortune 500s who have extreme out of control ceo pay. Those workers need to organize.

My brother is a 3rd level vp and he makes $800,000 a year. Ridiculous.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  I paid an American $200 to detail my car.  I know I could have found an illegal to do it cheaper but I was glad to pay an American company an American wage.  That's the only way we are going to make America great again.  An illegal shouldn't even be an option.
> 
> I felt like maybe these guys doing car detailing and landscaping can finally charge a rate that will give them a good standard of living.  I don't mind paying a little more.  Hell, I paid a lot more.
> 
> Remember, I make $90K plus a year and I have no mortgage, no kids going to college and I paid off my college loans in 1995.
> 
> The funny thing about hiring illegals is that it's not poor Americans who need to save that are doing it.  It's rich guys like you.  This is just one reason the rich have gotten richer in the last few decades and the middle class has disappeared or shrunk.  I read somewhere that people who employ illegals save billions of dollars every year.  That means you are stealing from middle class and poor Americans.  It's not right.  And you are proving that class warfare does exist.  And you clearly don't respect American workers.  To you we are lazy and charge too much.  Funny, that's what we think about your company.
> 
> I have the luxury of working in Manufacturing and in Michigan.  A union state where labor still makes a pretty good living.  My brother just confirmed with me that the new company he just went to treats their employees like shit.  For decades he thought I was making that up.  Now that he works for a company that isn't in manufacturing, he is seeing that not all companies treat their employees like they should.
> 
> And that Koch company that got caught hiring all those illegals in Mississippi?  They pay $12.  That's shit.  And from the lawsuits I saw they went through, they too treat their employees like shit.  You cons and employers love it this way.  Where employees are helpless and have to take your shit and your $12 hr shitty job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the thing I think we should remember. Me and you share a goal Seely, the best interests of the American citizens, individually and America as a whole.
> 
> 
> A lot of people, are not motivated by that, for different reasons.
> 
> 
> Rockwell, has ideological problems with the idea that American policy should be crafted to serve the interests of Americans.
> 
> 
> I've run into that kind of thinking a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Our policies cannot be crafted so as to make Americans choose between keeping their homes or losing them just because some people think a six month skill set is worth the same as the man who spent 8 years to learn his trade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is that an admission that what I said was true? Actually yes, that is an admission that what I said was true.
> 
> 
> You just could not bring yourself to admit it clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> Try again. Says something along the lines of, "Yes, that is true, I do not support having American policy based on serving American interests because of _______" and then explain why.
> 
> 
> Especially focus on how your reason is different than what I said. If it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a liar and an idiot.  I help Americans every day.  That is the business I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before I landed the great corporate gig I have now I worked for a guy just lik you. He had a small business and he helped people who needed work but he payed very little.
> 
> I appreciated the job and it was my fault for taking it but I needed the work. He sort of lied about commissions and kept raising the sales goals, thus keeping me pretty much never making nothing, while growing his business.
> 
> But, it was my fault for taking the job. He kept saying show me what you got but never wanted to pay off.
> 
> Anyways, long story short is he also wrote me a great letter of recommendation that got me this great corporate gig. Good thing I left on good terms.
> 
> So in some ways I appreciate him and you, and part of me wants to kick you in the balls.
> 
> P.s. I treat small businesses differently than I do corporations. The Fortune 500s who have extreme out of control ceo pay. Those workers need to organize.
> 
> My brother is a 3rd level vote and he makes $800,000 a year. Ridiculous.
Click to expand...


I still pay more than any other employer doing the same jobs.


----------



## Correll

Porter Rockwell said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that an admission that what I said was true? Actually yes, that is an admission that what I said was true.
> 
> 
> You just could not bring yourself to admit it clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> Try again. Says something along the lines of, "Yes, that is true, I do not support having American policy based on serving American interests because of _______" and then explain why.
> 
> 
> Especially focus on how your reason is different than what I said. If it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're a liar and an idiot.  I help Americans every day.  That is the business I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If I was a liar and an idiot, you would not have just tried to change the subject.
> 
> 
> You have ideological issues with the idea of crafting American government policy with the intent of serving the interests of American citizens.
> 
> 
> YOu consider doing that, morally and ethnically, and perhaps even legally "wrong".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did not change the subject.  Are you asking me what I think or *TELLING* me what I think?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm telling Seely, what your ideology is, based on our many discussions of national policy.
> 
> 
> If I got something wrong, then tell us what I got wrong, and what your real position is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you gave a shit what my personal feelings and beliefs are, you would have *ASKED* before presuming.  Do you see how productive and possible working relationships don't come to be because one thinks he's a freaking mind reader?
> 
> If someone wants to know what I think, they will ask.
Click to expand...



I asked lots of questions. I note that you are not denying my conclusion, nor offering any alternate.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Correll said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're a liar and an idiot.  I help Americans every day.  That is the business I'm in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I was a liar and an idiot, you would not have just tried to change the subject.
> 
> 
> You have ideological issues with the idea of crafting American government policy with the intent of serving the interests of American citizens.
> 
> 
> YOu consider doing that, morally and ethnically, and perhaps even legally "wrong".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did not change the subject.  Are you asking me what I think or *TELLING* me what I think?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm telling Seely, what your ideology is, based on our many discussions of national policy.
> 
> 
> If I got something wrong, then tell us what I got wrong, and what your real position is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you gave a shit what my personal feelings and beliefs are, you would have *ASKED* before presuming.  Do you see how productive and possible working relationships don't come to be because one thinks he's a freaking mind reader?
> 
> If someone wants to know what I think, they will ask.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I asked lots of questions. I note that you are not denying my conclusion, nor offering any alternate.
Click to expand...



I saw a lot of accusations.  What, exactly, is it that you want to know?


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the thing I think we should remember. Me and you share a goal Seely, the best interests of the American citizens, individually and America as a whole.
> 
> 
> A lot of people, are not motivated by that, for different reasons.
> 
> 
> Rockwell, has ideological problems with the idea that American policy should be crafted to serve the interests of Americans.
> 
> 
> I've run into that kind of thinking a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our policies cannot be crafted so as to make Americans choose between keeping their homes or losing them just because some people think a six month skill set is worth the same as the man who spent 8 years to learn his trade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is that an admission that what I said was true? Actually yes, that is an admission that what I said was true.
> 
> 
> You just could not bring yourself to admit it clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> Try again. Says something along the lines of, "Yes, that is true, I do not support having American policy based on serving American interests because of _______" and then explain why.
> 
> 
> Especially focus on how your reason is different than what I said. If it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a liar and an idiot.  I help Americans every day.  That is the business I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before I landed the great corporate gig I have now I worked for a guy just lik you. He had a small business and he helped people who needed work but he payed very little.
> 
> I appreciated the job and it was my fault for taking it but I needed the work. He sort of lied about commissions and kept raising the sales goals, thus keeping me pretty much never making nothing, while growing his business.
> 
> But, it was my fault for taking the job. He kept saying show me what you got but never wanted to pay off.
> 
> Anyways, long story short is he also wrote me a great letter of recommendation that got me this great corporate gig. Good thing I left on good terms.
> 
> So in some ways I appreciate him and you, and part of me wants to kick you in the balls.
> 
> P.s. I treat small businesses differently than I do corporations. The Fortune 500s who have extreme out of control ceo pay. Those workers need to organize.
> 
> My brother is a 3rd level vote and he makes $800,000 a year. Ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I still pay more than any other employer doing the same jobs.
Click to expand...

I hear trumps trade war is bringing a recession but a couple months ago this painter told me he would pay $25 hr if the person is good. That’s what I like to hear. 

But as soon as consumer confidence falls people suddenly stop getting their houses painted.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our policies cannot be crafted so as to make Americans choose between keeping their homes or losing them just because some people think a six month skill set is worth the same as the man who spent 8 years to learn his trade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that an admission that what I said was true? Actually yes, that is an admission that what I said was true.
> 
> 
> You just could not bring yourself to admit it clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> Try again. Says something along the lines of, "Yes, that is true, I do not support having American policy based on serving American interests because of _______" and then explain why.
> 
> 
> Especially focus on how your reason is different than what I said. If it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a liar and an idiot.  I help Americans every day.  That is the business I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before I landed the great corporate gig I have now I worked for a guy just lik you. He had a small business and he helped people who needed work but he payed very little.
> 
> I appreciated the job and it was my fault for taking it but I needed the work. He sort of lied about commissions and kept raising the sales goals, thus keeping me pretty much never making nothing, while growing his business.
> 
> But, it was my fault for taking the job. He kept saying show me what you got but never wanted to pay off.
> 
> Anyways, long story short is he also wrote me a great letter of recommendation that got me this great corporate gig. Good thing I left on good terms.
> 
> So in some ways I appreciate him and you, and part of me wants to kick you in the balls.
> 
> P.s. I treat small businesses differently than I do corporations. The Fortune 500s who have extreme out of control ceo pay. Those workers need to organize.
> 
> My brother is a 3rd level vote and he makes $800,000 a year. Ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I still pay more than any other employer doing the same jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hear trumps trade war is bringing a recession but a couple months ago this painter told me he would pay $25 hr if the person is good. That’s what I like to hear.
> 
> But as soon as consumer confidence falls people suddenly stop getting their houses painted.
Click to expand...



The harder times become, the more people are fixing what they have rather than buying new.


----------



## sealybobo

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> You've never quoted anything and California doesn't apply to me.  If you told a judge that his rulings were fallacy, he'd probably tell you that you were in contempt of court.  So, you know what I think about your idiotic bullshit.  BTW, you need some new material.
> 
> 
> 
> lol.  you don't know what you are talking about.
> 
> I cited our California State Constitution regarding natural rights.  They are available via Due Process not our Second Amendment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No you didn't.  I have some time on my hands.  Do you want to retain me at 40 percent of what we can get if you sue your brains for non-support?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it is in post number one hundred.  i don't need to make excuses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Natural rights are recognized and secured in State Constitutions and available via Due Process not our Second Amendment.  How can you be an attorney and not know this?
Click to expand...

Interesting fact. When blacks migrated to white cities because they heard there were jobs they were denied food-stamps. The whites tried to say you have to have lived in that state for five years before you could ask for welfare. The Supreme Court said that was unconstitutional.

And today trump wants to deny welfare to immigrants. Anyone who hasn’t been here for at least 5 years.

And for the record I agree with him.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that an admission that what I said was true? Actually yes, that is an admission that what I said was true.
> 
> 
> You just could not bring yourself to admit it clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> Try again. Says something along the lines of, "Yes, that is true, I do not support having American policy based on serving American interests because of _______" and then explain why.
> 
> 
> Especially focus on how your reason is different than what I said. If it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're a liar and an idiot.  I help Americans every day.  That is the business I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before I landed the great corporate gig I have now I worked for a guy just lik you. He had a small business and he helped people who needed work but he payed very little.
> 
> I appreciated the job and it was my fault for taking it but I needed the work. He sort of lied about commissions and kept raising the sales goals, thus keeping me pretty much never making nothing, while growing his business.
> 
> But, it was my fault for taking the job. He kept saying show me what you got but never wanted to pay off.
> 
> Anyways, long story short is he also wrote me a great letter of recommendation that got me this great corporate gig. Good thing I left on good terms.
> 
> So in some ways I appreciate him and you, and part of me wants to kick you in the balls.
> 
> P.s. I treat small businesses differently than I do corporations. The Fortune 500s who have extreme out of control ceo pay. Those workers need to organize.
> 
> My brother is a 3rd level vote and he makes $800,000 a year. Ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I still pay more than any other employer doing the same jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hear trumps trade war is bringing a recession but a couple months ago this painter told me he would pay $25 hr if the person is good. That’s what I like to hear.
> 
> But as soon as consumer confidence falls people suddenly stop getting their houses painted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The harder times become, the more people are fixing what they have rather than buying new.
Click to expand...

Yea but we/I also tighten our spinksters


----------



## danielpalos

sealybobo said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol.  you don't know what you are talking about.
> 
> I cited our California State Constitution regarding natural rights.  They are available via Due Process not our Second Amendment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No you didn't.  I have some time on my hands.  Do you want to retain me at 40 percent of what we can get if you sue your brains for non-support?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it is in post number one hundred.  i don't need to make excuses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Natural rights are recognized and secured in State Constitutions and available via Due Process not our Second Amendment.  How can you be an attorney and not know this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting fact. When blacks migrated to white cities because they heard there were jobs they were denied food-stamps. The whites tried to say you have to have lived in that state for five years before you could ask for welfare. The Supreme Court said that was unconstitutional.
> 
> And today trump wants to deny welfare to immigrants. Anyone who hasn’t been here for at least 5 years.
> 
> And for the record I agree with him.
Click to expand...

An even more interesting fact is that there is no express immigration clause in our federal Constitution.  

We should have no illegals or illegal underclass with our express establishment clause for naturalization, whenever the right wing has nothing but bigotry for their arguments.


----------



## Correll

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the thing I think we should remember. Me and you share a goal Seely, the best interests of the American citizens, individually and America as a whole.
> 
> 
> A lot of people, are not motivated by that, for different reasons.
> 
> 
> Rockwell, has ideological problems with the idea that American policy should be crafted to serve the interests of Americans.
> 
> 
> I've run into that kind of thinking a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our policies cannot be crafted so as to make Americans choose between keeping their homes or losing them just because some people think a six month skill set is worth the same as the man who spent 8 years to learn his trade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is that an admission that what I said was true? Actually yes, that is an admission that what I said was true.
> 
> 
> You just could not bring yourself to admit it clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> Try again. Says something along the lines of, "Yes, that is true, I do not support having American policy based on serving American interests because of _______" and then explain why.
> 
> 
> Especially focus on how your reason is different than what I said. If it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a liar and an idiot.  I help Americans every day.  That is the business I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before I landed the great corporate gig I have now I worked for a guy just lik you. He had a small business and he helped people who needed work but he payed very little.
> 
> I appreciated the job and it was my fault for taking it but I needed the work. He sort of lied about commissions and kept raising the sales goals, thus keeping me pretty much never making nothing, while growing his business.
> 
> But, it was my fault for taking the job. He kept saying show me what you got but never wanted to pay off.
> 
> Anyways, long story short is he also wrote me a great letter of recommendation that got me this great corporate gig. Good thing I left on good terms.
> 
> So in some ways I appreciate him and you, and part of me wants to kick you in the balls.
> 
> P.s. I treat small businesses differently than I do corporations. The Fortune 500s who have extreme out of control ceo pay. Those workers need to organize.
> 
> My brother is a 3rd level vote and he makes $800,000 a year. Ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I still pay more than any other employer doing the same jobs.
Click to expand...



The point is not that you are a bad person.


The point is that the market is effected by an excess of labor supply driving down the price.


----------



## Correll

Porter Rockwell said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I was a liar and an idiot, you would not have just tried to change the subject.
> 
> 
> You have ideological issues with the idea of crafting American government policy with the intent of serving the interests of American citizens.
> 
> 
> YOu consider doing that, morally and ethnically, and perhaps even legally "wrong".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did not change the subject.  Are you asking me what I think or *TELLING* me what I think?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm telling Seely, what your ideology is, based on our many discussions of national policy.
> 
> 
> If I got something wrong, then tell us what I got wrong, and what your real position is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you gave a shit what my personal feelings and beliefs are, you would have *ASKED* before presuming.  Do you see how productive and possible working relationships don't come to be because one thinks he's a freaking mind reader?
> 
> If someone wants to know what I think, they will ask.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I asked lots of questions. I note that you are not denying my conclusion, nor offering any alternate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I saw a lot of accusations.  What, exactly, is it that you want to know?
Click to expand...



There were no accusations. Your evasion is noted.


----------



## Correll

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our policies cannot be crafted so as to make Americans choose between keeping their homes or losing them just because some people think a six month skill set is worth the same as the man who spent 8 years to learn his trade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that an admission that what I said was true? Actually yes, that is an admission that what I said was true.
> 
> 
> You just could not bring yourself to admit it clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> Try again. Says something along the lines of, "Yes, that is true, I do not support having American policy based on serving American interests because of _______" and then explain why.
> 
> 
> Especially focus on how your reason is different than what I said. If it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a liar and an idiot.  I help Americans every day.  That is the business I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before I landed the great corporate gig I have now I worked for a guy just lik you. He had a small business and he helped people who needed work but he payed very little.
> 
> I appreciated the job and it was my fault for taking it but I needed the work. He sort of lied about commissions and kept raising the sales goals, thus keeping me pretty much never making nothing, while growing his business.
> 
> But, it was my fault for taking the job. He kept saying show me what you got but never wanted to pay off.
> 
> Anyways, long story short is he also wrote me a great letter of recommendation that got me this great corporate gig. Good thing I left on good terms.
> 
> So in some ways I appreciate him and you, and part of me wants to kick you in the balls.
> 
> P.s. I treat small businesses differently than I do corporations. The Fortune 500s who have extreme out of control ceo pay. Those workers need to organize.
> 
> My brother is a 3rd level vote and he makes $800,000 a year. Ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I still pay more than any other employer doing the same jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hear trumps trade war is bringing a recession but a couple months ago this painter told me he would pay $25 hr if the person is good. That’s what I like to hear.
> 
> But as soon as consumer confidence falls people suddenly stop getting their houses painted.
Click to expand...


The recession will end. 



The long standing trend of wage stagnation kept working though good and bad times.


If we keep the labor supply tight, it is not unreasonable to hope that the same thing will happen with the upward trend we are seeing.


----------



## danielpalos

Correll said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our policies cannot be crafted so as to make Americans choose between keeping their homes or losing them just because some people think a six month skill set is worth the same as the man who spent 8 years to learn his trade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that an admission that what I said was true? Actually yes, that is an admission that what I said was true.
> 
> 
> You just could not bring yourself to admit it clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> Try again. Says something along the lines of, "Yes, that is true, I do not support having American policy based on serving American interests because of _______" and then explain why.
> 
> 
> Especially focus on how your reason is different than what I said. If it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a liar and an idiot.  I help Americans every day.  That is the business I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before I landed the great corporate gig I have now I worked for a guy just lik you. He had a small business and he helped people who needed work but he payed very little.
> 
> I appreciated the job and it was my fault for taking it but I needed the work. He sort of lied about commissions and kept raising the sales goals, thus keeping me pretty much never making nothing, while growing his business.
> 
> But, it was my fault for taking the job. He kept saying show me what you got but never wanted to pay off.
> 
> Anyways, long story short is he also wrote me a great letter of recommendation that got me this great corporate gig. Good thing I left on good terms.
> 
> So in some ways I appreciate him and you, and part of me wants to kick you in the balls.
> 
> P.s. I treat small businesses differently than I do corporations. The Fortune 500s who have extreme out of control ceo pay. Those workers need to organize.
> 
> My brother is a 3rd level vote and he makes $800,000 a year. Ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I still pay more than any other employer doing the same jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The point is not that you are a bad person.
> 
> 
> The point is that the market is effected by an excess of labor supply driving down the price.
Click to expand...

we have a minimum wage for a reason.  who are you going to hire at fifteen an hour?


----------



## Correll

danielpalos said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that an admission that what I said was true? Actually yes, that is an admission that what I said was true.
> 
> 
> You just could not bring yourself to admit it clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> Try again. Says something along the lines of, "Yes, that is true, I do not support having American policy based on serving American interests because of _______" and then explain why.
> 
> 
> Especially focus on how your reason is different than what I said. If it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're a liar and an idiot.  I help Americans every day.  That is the business I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before I landed the great corporate gig I have now I worked for a guy just lik you. He had a small business and he helped people who needed work but he payed very little.
> 
> I appreciated the job and it was my fault for taking it but I needed the work. He sort of lied about commissions and kept raising the sales goals, thus keeping me pretty much never making nothing, while growing his business.
> 
> But, it was my fault for taking the job. He kept saying show me what you got but never wanted to pay off.
> 
> Anyways, long story short is he also wrote me a great letter of recommendation that got me this great corporate gig. Good thing I left on good terms.
> 
> So in some ways I appreciate him and you, and part of me wants to kick you in the balls.
> 
> P.s. I treat small businesses differently than I do corporations. The Fortune 500s who have extreme out of control ceo pay. Those workers need to organize.
> 
> My brother is a 3rd level vote and he makes $800,000 a year. Ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I still pay more than any other employer doing the same jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The point is not that you are a bad person.
> 
> 
> The point is that the market is effected by an excess of labor supply driving down the price.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> we have a minimum wage for a reason.  who are you going to hire at fifteen an hour?
Click to expand...



Roofers, handymen, maids, landscapers, ect.


----------



## danielpalos

Our naturalization clause is better.  Mexicans are right across the border.  They can always go home and set up shop.  Most won't need to ask for citizenship if they can freely cross the border as visitors.


----------



## sealybobo

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that an admission that what I said was true? Actually yes, that is an admission that what I said was true.
> 
> 
> You just could not bring yourself to admit it clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> Try again. Says something along the lines of, "Yes, that is true, I do not support having American policy based on serving American interests because of _______" and then explain why.
> 
> 
> Especially focus on how your reason is different than what I said. If it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're a liar and an idiot.  I help Americans every day.  That is the business I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before I landed the great corporate gig I have now I worked for a guy just lik you. He had a small business and he helped people who needed work but he payed very little.
> 
> I appreciated the job and it was my fault for taking it but I needed the work. He sort of lied about commissions and kept raising the sales goals, thus keeping me pretty much never making nothing, while growing his business.
> 
> But, it was my fault for taking the job. He kept saying show me what you got but never wanted to pay off.
> 
> Anyways, long story short is he also wrote me a great letter of recommendation that got me this great corporate gig. Good thing I left on good terms.
> 
> So in some ways I appreciate him and you, and part of me wants to kick you in the balls.
> 
> P.s. I treat small businesses differently than I do corporations. The Fortune 500s who have extreme out of control ceo pay. Those workers need to organize.
> 
> My brother is a 3rd level vote and he makes $800,000 a year. Ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I still pay more than any other employer doing the same jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hear trumps trade war is bringing a recession but a couple months ago this painter told me he would pay $25 hr if the person is good. That’s what I like to hear.
> 
> But as soon as consumer confidence falls people suddenly stop getting their houses painted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The recession will end.
> 
> 
> 
> The long standing trend of wage stagnation kept working though good and bad times.
> 
> 
> If we keep the labor supply tight, it is not unreasonable to hope that the same thing will happen with the upward trend we are seeing.
Click to expand...


Actually what you are talking about did work and was happening in the roaring 90s. Companies had to pay or they’d lose their good employees.

But something is different today. Today we don’t have 35% of the workforce organized. Corporations have sense broken the unions. I suspect they’ll do everything they can to keep wages low. They’ll ev n start allowing more legal immigrants in. 

Boy, this immigration issue trump has focused in on really resonates with me. I don’t think they are sincere but at least it has put a focus on the problems the middle class is having. Either solve the problems or here comes socialism.


----------



## Correll

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're a liar and an idiot.  I help Americans every day.  That is the business I'm in.
> 
> 
> 
> Before I landed the great corporate gig I have now I worked for a guy just lik you. He had a small business and he helped people who needed work but he payed very little.
> 
> I appreciated the job and it was my fault for taking it but I needed the work. He sort of lied about commissions and kept raising the sales goals, thus keeping me pretty much never making nothing, while growing his business.
> 
> But, it was my fault for taking the job. He kept saying show me what you got but never wanted to pay off.
> 
> Anyways, long story short is he also wrote me a great letter of recommendation that got me this great corporate gig. Good thing I left on good terms.
> 
> So in some ways I appreciate him and you, and part of me wants to kick you in the balls.
> 
> P.s. I treat small businesses differently than I do corporations. The Fortune 500s who have extreme out of control ceo pay. Those workers need to organize.
> 
> My brother is a 3rd level vote and he makes $800,000 a year. Ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I still pay more than any other employer doing the same jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hear trumps trade war is bringing a recession but a couple months ago this painter told me he would pay $25 hr if the person is good. That’s what I like to hear.
> 
> But as soon as consumer confidence falls people suddenly stop getting their houses painted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The recession will end.
> 
> 
> 
> The long standing trend of wage stagnation kept working though good and bad times.
> 
> 
> If we keep the labor supply tight, it is not unreasonable to hope that the same thing will happen with the upward trend we are seeing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually what you are talking about did work and was happening in the roaring 90s. Companies had to pay or they’d lose their good employees.
> 
> But something is different today. Today we don’t have 35% of the workforce organized. Corporations have sense broken the unions. I suspect they’ll do everything they can to keep wages low. They’ll ev n start allowing more legal immigrants in.
> 
> Boy, this immigration issue trump has focused in on really resonates with me. I don’t think they are sincere but at least it has put a focus on the problems the middle class is having. Either solve the problems or here comes socialism.
Click to expand...



The environment seem ripe for an union resurgence. 


Especially if they hit the republicans on how Trumpism undermines the justification for traditional GOP hostility to unions. 


I keep expecting to read on such a push.


Can you imagine the impact if a major union took an anti-immigration stance?


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Correll said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not change the subject.  Are you asking me what I think or *TELLING* me what I think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm telling Seely, what your ideology is, based on our many discussions of national policy.
> 
> 
> If I got something wrong, then tell us what I got wrong, and what your real position is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you gave a shit what my personal feelings and beliefs are, you would have *ASKED* before presuming.  Do you see how productive and possible working relationships don't come to be because one thinks he's a freaking mind reader?
> 
> If someone wants to know what I think, they will ask.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I asked lots of questions. I note that you are not denying my conclusion, nor offering any alternate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I saw a lot of accusations.  What, exactly, is it that you want to know?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There were no accusations. Your evasion is noted.
Click to expand...


You're the one copping out.  Is there something you really want to know about me?  Ask your question (s)  I will try to get to them tomorrow.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Correll said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our policies cannot be crafted so as to make Americans choose between keeping their homes or losing them just because some people think a six month skill set is worth the same as the man who spent 8 years to learn his trade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that an admission that what I said was true? Actually yes, that is an admission that what I said was true.
> 
> 
> You just could not bring yourself to admit it clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> Try again. Says something along the lines of, "Yes, that is true, I do not support having American policy based on serving American interests because of _______" and then explain why.
> 
> 
> Especially focus on how your reason is different than what I said. If it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a liar and an idiot.  I help Americans every day.  That is the business I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before I landed the great corporate gig I have now I worked for a guy just lik you. He had a small business and he helped people who needed work but he payed very little.
> 
> I appreciated the job and it was my fault for taking it but I needed the work. He sort of lied about commissions and kept raising the sales goals, thus keeping me pretty much never making nothing, while growing his business.
> 
> But, it was my fault for taking the job. He kept saying show me what you got but never wanted to pay off.
> 
> Anyways, long story short is he also wrote me a great letter of recommendation that got me this great corporate gig. Good thing I left on good terms.
> 
> So in some ways I appreciate him and you, and part of me wants to kick you in the balls.
> 
> P.s. I treat small businesses differently than I do corporations. The Fortune 500s who have extreme out of control ceo pay. Those workers need to organize.
> 
> My brother is a 3rd level vote and he makes $800,000 a year. Ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I still pay more than any other employer doing the same jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The point is not that you are a bad person.
> 
> 
> The point is that the market is effected by an excess of labor supply driving down the price.
Click to expand...


You do realize that my take on economics is supported by a man who won a Nobel in economics, right?


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> No you didn't.  I have some time on my hands.  Do you want to retain me at 40 percent of what we can get if you sue your brains for non-support?
> 
> 
> 
> it is in post number one hundred.  i don't need to make excuses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Natural rights are recognized and secured in State Constitutions and available via Due Process not our Second Amendment.  How can you be an attorney and not know this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting fact. When blacks migrated to white cities because they heard there were jobs they were denied food-stamps. The whites tried to say you have to have lived in that state for five years before you could ask for welfare. The Supreme Court said that was unconstitutional.
> 
> And today trump wants to deny welfare to immigrants. Anyone who hasn’t been here for at least 5 years.
> 
> And for the record I agree with him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An even more interesting fact is that there is no express immigration clause in our federal Constitution.
> 
> We should have no illegals or illegal underclass with our express establishment clause for naturalization, whenever the right wing has nothing but bigotry for their arguments.
Click to expand...


YOU NEED SOME NEW MATERIAL


----------



## Correll

Porter Rockwell said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm telling Seely, what your ideology is, based on our many discussions of national policy.
> 
> 
> If I got something wrong, then tell us what I got wrong, and what your real position is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you gave a shit what my personal feelings and beliefs are, you would have *ASKED* before presuming.  Do you see how productive and possible working relationships don't come to be because one thinks he's a freaking mind reader?
> 
> If someone wants to know what I think, they will ask.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I asked lots of questions. I note that you are not denying my conclusion, nor offering any alternate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I saw a lot of accusations.  What, exactly, is it that you want to know?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There were no accusations. Your evasion is noted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're the one copping out.  Is there something you really want to know about me?  Ask your question (s)  I will try to get to them tomorrow.
Click to expand...



We already covered that ground, and I made my points. They are right there in the thread if you want to correct them.


----------



## Correll

Porter Rockwell said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that an admission that what I said was true? Actually yes, that is an admission that what I said was true.
> 
> 
> You just could not bring yourself to admit it clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> Try again. Says something along the lines of, "Yes, that is true, I do not support having American policy based on serving American interests because of _______" and then explain why.
> 
> 
> Especially focus on how your reason is different than what I said. If it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're a liar and an idiot.  I help Americans every day.  That is the business I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before I landed the great corporate gig I have now I worked for a guy just lik you. He had a small business and he helped people who needed work but he payed very little.
> 
> I appreciated the job and it was my fault for taking it but I needed the work. He sort of lied about commissions and kept raising the sales goals, thus keeping me pretty much never making nothing, while growing his business.
> 
> But, it was my fault for taking the job. He kept saying show me what you got but never wanted to pay off.
> 
> Anyways, long story short is he also wrote me a great letter of recommendation that got me this great corporate gig. Good thing I left on good terms.
> 
> So in some ways I appreciate him and you, and part of me wants to kick you in the balls.
> 
> P.s. I treat small businesses differently than I do corporations. The Fortune 500s who have extreme out of control ceo pay. Those workers need to organize.
> 
> My brother is a 3rd level vote and he makes $800,000 a year. Ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I still pay more than any other employer doing the same jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The point is not that you are a bad person.
> 
> 
> The point is that the market is effected by an excess of labor supply driving down the price.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do realize that my take on economics is supported by a man who won a Nobel in economics, right?
Click to expand...




If he doesn't believe that an excess of supply drives down prices, he was/is full of shit.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> it is in post number one hundred.  i don't need to make excuses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Natural rights are recognized and secured in State Constitutions and available via Due Process not our Second Amendment.  How can you be an attorney and not know this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting fact. When blacks migrated to white cities because they heard there were jobs they were denied food-stamps. The whites tried to say you have to have lived in that state for five years before you could ask for welfare. The Supreme Court said that was unconstitutional.
> 
> And today trump wants to deny welfare to immigrants. Anyone who hasn’t been here for at least 5 years.
> 
> And for the record I agree with him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An even more interesting fact is that there is no express immigration clause in our federal Constitution.
> 
> We should have no illegals or illegal underclass with our express establishment clause for naturalization, whenever the right wing has nothing but bigotry for their arguments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YOU NEED SOME NEW MATERIAL
Click to expand...

you have no valid rebuttals.  you know you Have to lose if we have to get, supreme.


----------



## sealybobo

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn
> 
> 
> 
> Natural rights are recognized and secured in State Constitutions and available via Due Process not our Second Amendment.  How can you be an attorney and not know this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting fact. When blacks migrated to white cities because they heard there were jobs they were denied food-stamps. The whites tried to say you have to have lived in that state for five years before you could ask for welfare. The Supreme Court said that was unconstitutional.
> 
> And today trump wants to deny welfare to immigrants. Anyone who hasn’t been here for at least 5 years.
> 
> And for the record I agree with him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An even more interesting fact is that there is no express immigration clause in our federal Constitution.
> 
> We should have no illegals or illegal underclass with our express establishment clause for naturalization, whenever the right wing has nothing but bigotry for their arguments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YOU NEED SOME NEW MATERIAL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you have no valid rebuttals.  you know you Have to lose if we have to get, supreme.
Click to expand...

Daniel, I think I agree with you but it's hard to tell because you keep saying shit only you understand.


----------



## danielpalos

sealybobo said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Natural rights are recognized and secured in State Constitutions and available via Due Process not our Second Amendment.  How can you be an attorney and not know this?
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting fact. When blacks migrated to white cities because they heard there were jobs they were denied food-stamps. The whites tried to say you have to have lived in that state for five years before you could ask for welfare. The Supreme Court said that was unconstitutional.
> 
> And today trump wants to deny welfare to immigrants. Anyone who hasn’t been here for at least 5 years.
> 
> And for the record I agree with him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An even more interesting fact is that there is no express immigration clause in our federal Constitution.
> 
> We should have no illegals or illegal underclass with our express establishment clause for naturalization, whenever the right wing has nothing but bigotry for their arguments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YOU NEED SOME NEW MATERIAL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you have no valid rebuttals.  you know you Have to lose if we have to get, supreme.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Daniel, I think I agree with you but it's hard to tell because you keep saying shit only you understand.
Click to expand...

like what?  i usually ask questions until i win my arguments.  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.


----------



## sealybobo

danielpalos said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting fact. When blacks migrated to white cities because they heard there were jobs they were denied food-stamps. The whites tried to say you have to have lived in that state for five years before you could ask for welfare. The Supreme Court said that was unconstitutional.
> 
> And today trump wants to deny welfare to immigrants. Anyone who hasn’t been here for at least 5 years.
> 
> And for the record I agree with him.
> 
> 
> 
> An even more interesting fact is that there is no express immigration clause in our federal Constitution.
> 
> We should have no illegals or illegal underclass with our express establishment clause for naturalization, whenever the right wing has nothing but bigotry for their arguments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YOU NEED SOME NEW MATERIAL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you have no valid rebuttals.  you know you Have to lose if we have to get, supreme.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Daniel, I think I agree with you but it's hard to tell because you keep saying shit only you understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> like what?  i usually ask questions until i win my arguments.  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
Click to expand...


Here you go again with another riddle I have do decipher.  LOL.  

Like what?  Like you saying this:  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.

Age of Iron?  Is that a Marvel movie?


----------



## danielpalos

sealybobo said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> An even more interesting fact is that there is no express immigration clause in our federal Constitution.
> 
> We should have no illegals or illegal underclass with our express establishment clause for naturalization, whenever the right wing has nothing but bigotry for their arguments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOU NEED SOME NEW MATERIAL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you have no valid rebuttals.  you know you Have to lose if we have to get, supreme.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Daniel, I think I agree with you but it's hard to tell because you keep saying shit only you understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> like what?  i usually ask questions until i win my arguments.  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here you go again with another riddle I have do decipher.  LOL.
> 
> Like what?  Like you saying this:  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> Age of Iron?  Is that a Marvel movie?
Click to expand...

just my perception of the right wing.  

i have no confidence in their sincerity.


----------



## sealybobo

danielpalos said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOU NEED SOME NEW MATERIAL
> 
> 
> 
> you have no valid rebuttals.  you know you Have to lose if we have to get, supreme.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Daniel, I think I agree with you but it's hard to tell because you keep saying shit only you understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> like what?  i usually ask questions until i win my arguments.  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here you go again with another riddle I have do decipher.  LOL.
> 
> Like what?  Like you saying this:  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> Age of Iron?  Is that a Marvel movie?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> just my perception of the right wing.
> 
> i have no confidence in their sincerity.
Click to expand...


That's because it is their fault the average middle class American is no longer making enough to even be able to retire and the rich have gotten richer than ever.  It's their policies that caused this.  Then they want to say it happened on Obama's watch but lets not forget they stonewalled him on undoing a lot of the Bush era policies that created the gap.

Sending jobs overseas, hiring illegals, buying from China, tax breaks to to the rich, breaking unions.  All of these things created the widening gap between the rich and rest of us.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Correll said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're a liar and an idiot.  I help Americans every day.  That is the business I'm in.
> 
> 
> 
> Before I landed the great corporate gig I have now I worked for a guy just lik you. He had a small business and he helped people who needed work but he payed very little.
> 
> I appreciated the job and it was my fault for taking it but I needed the work. He sort of lied about commissions and kept raising the sales goals, thus keeping me pretty much never making nothing, while growing his business.
> 
> But, it was my fault for taking the job. He kept saying show me what you got but never wanted to pay off.
> 
> Anyways, long story short is he also wrote me a great letter of recommendation that got me this great corporate gig. Good thing I left on good terms.
> 
> So in some ways I appreciate him and you, and part of me wants to kick you in the balls.
> 
> P.s. I treat small businesses differently than I do corporations. The Fortune 500s who have extreme out of control ceo pay. Those workers need to organize.
> 
> My brother is a 3rd level vote and he makes $800,000 a year. Ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I still pay more than any other employer doing the same jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The point is not that you are a bad person.
> 
> 
> The point is that the market is effected by an excess of labor supply driving down the price.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do realize that my take on economics is supported by a man who won a Nobel in economics, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If he doesn't believe that an excess of supply drives down prices, he was/is full of shit.
Click to expand...


Well, if you read the links I've provided, you know the answer.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Correll said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you gave a shit what my personal feelings and beliefs are, you would have *ASKED* before presuming.  Do you see how productive and possible working relationships don't come to be because one thinks he's a freaking mind reader?
> 
> If someone wants to know what I think, they will ask.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked lots of questions. I note that you are not denying my conclusion, nor offering any alternate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I saw a lot of accusations.  What, exactly, is it that you want to know?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There were no accusations. Your evasion is noted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're the one copping out.  Is there something you really want to know about me?  Ask your question (s)  I will try to get to them tomorrow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> We already covered that ground, and I made my points. They are right there in the thread if you want to correct them.
Click to expand...


Like I said, if you had a question, you would ask it.  Making silly accusations is a waste of bandwidth and sheer arrogance on your part.  You presume to read my mind and tell others what I think.


----------



## kwc57

sealybobo said:


> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"


My goodness...….(sarcasm on) if you prevent businesses from hiring them, aren't you engaging in institutional racism against brown people?(sarcasm off)  If the government were to enforce those laws, they will be met with the same protests from liberals/Democrats of conservative racism.  If you argue for open borders, the last thing you want to see happen is limiting jobs.

Look, I believe companies who hire illegals should be held accountable, but that isn't the end all be all for stopping illegal immigration.  Would it help? Sure.  Is it the cure? No.  You'll never get Democrats in Congress to agree to support "racist" laws.  The truth is, they want them here to build a new majority base.  We give you citizenship, we give you healthcare, we give you free education and all we ask for in return is your vote.  What they don't realize is that when they build this new majority, they will end up being booted from office and the party they seek to preserve will become a different party.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

kwc57 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> My goodness...….(sarcasm on) if you prevent businesses from hiring them, aren't you engaging in institutional racism against brown people?(sarcasm off)  If the government were to enforce those laws, they will be met with the same protests from liberals/Democrats of conservative racism.  If you argue for open borders, the last thing you want to see happen is limiting jobs.
> 
> Look, I believe companies who hire illegals should be held accountable, but that isn't the end all be all for stopping illegal immigration.  Would it help? Sure.  Is it the cure? No.  You'll never get Democrats in Congress to agree to support "racist" laws.  The truth is, they want them here to build a new majority base.  We give you citizenship, we give you healthcare, we give you free education and all we ask for in return is your vote.  What they don't realize is that when they build this new majority, they will end up being booted from office and the party they seek to preserve will become a different party.
Click to expand...



You are wrong on sooooo many levels.  The government has *NO authority* to penalize an employer for giving a job to the person the employer deems to be the best employee.

If not for an *ILLEGAL ACT* by the United States Supreme Court in 1875, the federal government would not be involved in the issue of who the employer hires relative to foreigners.  That is wholly a states rights issue.  For the anti-immigrants to wail and bitch about the "_Rule of Law_," they don't give a rip when the government helps the anti-immigrant cause at the expense of any "_Rule of Law._"

The reality is, the globalists want a one world, one race, one religion society that is easily led around.  *What you are lobbying for is exactly the same thing the Democrat leadership wants*.  They simply sent in Donnie the Dictator to confuse you.  I keep posting this, but the anti-immigrant types cannot see how they are being played:



How do you suppose the Ds and the Rs changed places?  They didn't.  The Democrats simply conned the Republicans into making this specious argument that Republicans are bigger negrophilists - one world, one race religionists than the Democrats are.  So, the Democrats are using Trump (with his knowledge and permission of course) to pull the hood over your eyes (pun intended) and make this an absolute *POLICE STATE*.  The build the wall guys get on this board every day with their hatred of the Constitution and a phony "_Rule of Law_" argument while helping the Democrats turn America into a socialist cesspool.

You want to punish employers for giving a job they created (and the employer *OWNS*) to someone besides an American?  WTH?  When the government owns and controls the jobs, that is called *SOCIALISM*. Where in the Hell were you people when civics classes talked about property Rights???

You are the master of your own destiny.  Boycott the little brown people and American companies that cater to them.  Vote with your wallet and your pocket book.  Don't think the government can save you from yourself with small doses of socialism.


----------



## sealybobo

kwc57 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> My goodness...….(sarcasm on) if you prevent businesses from hiring them, aren't you engaging in institutional racism against brown people?(sarcasm off)  If the government were to enforce those laws, they will be met with the same protests from liberals/Democrats of conservative racism.  If you argue for open borders, the last thing you want to see happen is limiting jobs.
> 
> Look, I believe companies who hire illegals should be held accountable, but that isn't the end all be all for stopping illegal immigration.  Would it help? Sure.  Is it the cure? No.  You'll never get Democrats in Congress to agree to support "racist" laws.  The truth is, they want them here to build a new majority base.  We give you citizenship, we give you healthcare, we give you free education and all we ask for in return is your vote.  What they don't realize is that when they build this new majority, they will end up being booted from office and the party they seek to preserve will become a different party.
Click to expand...


That is just your right wing talking point.

A.  We want them here because they will vote Democratic.  BS.  In fact if you weren't calling them murderers and rapist, hispanic people are very fucking conservative.  
B. Going after illegal employers isn't the cure.  Yes it is.  Going after illegal immigrants is like playing wack a mole.  If you go after illegal employers and they stop, the problems go home.  We used to have migrants come here, pick fruit and veggies, then go home after the season was over.  No one EVER minded that.  Those were jobs Americans wouldn't do.  But then during the time of Reagan he signaled to employers that there wouldn't be penalties for illegal employers.  Soon Mexicans were coming here to do landscaping, construction, home remodeling, janitor, maid services, etc....  In other words jobs Americans were doing.  

No liberal is going to cry if you start going after illegal employers.  The fact is, Republicans won't even discuss illegal employers.  They can't.  This is why what Trump is doing is just a fucking con game.  Until I see them penalizing illegal employers, I won't believe he is serious about fixing the problem.  Don't build a wall they'll just climb over or dig under in order to go work for the illegal employers who are what is luring them here.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> My goodness...….(sarcasm on) if you prevent businesses from hiring them, aren't you engaging in institutional racism against brown people?(sarcasm off)  If the government were to enforce those laws, they will be met with the same protests from liberals/Democrats of conservative racism.  If you argue for open borders, the last thing you want to see happen is limiting jobs.
> 
> Look, I believe companies who hire illegals should be held accountable, but that isn't the end all be all for stopping illegal immigration.  Would it help? Sure.  Is it the cure? No.  You'll never get Democrats in Congress to agree to support "racist" laws.  The truth is, they want them here to build a new majority base.  We give you citizenship, we give you healthcare, we give you free education and all we ask for in return is your vote.  What they don't realize is that when they build this new majority, they will end up being booted from office and the party they seek to preserve will become a different party.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are wrong on sooooo many levels.  The government has *NO authority* to penalize an employer for giving a job to the person the employer deems to be the best employee.
> 
> If not for an *ILLEGAL ACT* by the United States Supreme Court in 1875, the federal government would not be involved in the issue of who the employer hires relative to foreigners.  That is wholly a states rights issue.  For the anti-immigrants to wail and bitch about the "_Rule of Law_," they don't give a rip when the government helps the anti-immigrant cause at the expense of any "_Rule of Law._"
> 
> The reality is, the globalists want a one world, one race, one religion society that is easily led around.  *What you are lobbying for is exactly the same thing the Democrat leadership wants*.  They simply sent in Donnie the Dictator to confuse you.  I keep posting this, but the anti-immigrant types cannot see how they are being played:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you suppose the Ds and the Rs changed places?  They didn't.  The Democrats simply conned the Republicans into making this specious argument that Republicans are bigger negrophilists - one world, one race religionists than the Democrats are.  So, the Democrats are using Trump (with his knowledge and permission of course) to pull the hood over your eyes (pun intended) and make this an absolute *POLICE STATE*.  The build the wall guys get on this board every day with their hatred of the Constitution and a phony "_Rule of Law_" argument while helping the Democrats turn America into a socialist cesspool.
> 
> You want to punish employers for giving a job they created (and the employer *OWNS*) to someone besides an American?  WTH?  When the government owns and controls the jobs, that is called *SOCIALISM*. Where in the Hell were you people when civics classes talked about property Rights???
> 
> You are the master of your own destiny.  Boycott the little brown people and American companies that cater to them.  Vote with your wallet and your pocket book.  Don't think the government can save you from yourself with small doses of socialism.
Click to expand...


If illegal employers are afraid of the penalties, they won't hire illegal workers who aren't supposed to be here.  

Did you file for a HB1 visa before you hired them?  You're supposed to prove to the government that you tried but couldn't find any Americans to do the job before you start outsourcing.  

Can I buy my drugs from Canada?  Why not?  How come I'm forced to buy from an American drug manufacturer?  I should be able to go outside the United States to get my drugs.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> My goodness...….(sarcasm on) if you prevent businesses from hiring them, aren't you engaging in institutional racism against brown people?(sarcasm off)  If the government were to enforce those laws, they will be met with the same protests from liberals/Democrats of conservative racism.  If you argue for open borders, the last thing you want to see happen is limiting jobs.
> 
> Look, I believe companies who hire illegals should be held accountable, but that isn't the end all be all for stopping illegal immigration.  Would it help? Sure.  Is it the cure? No.  You'll never get Democrats in Congress to agree to support "racist" laws.  The truth is, they want them here to build a new majority base.  We give you citizenship, we give you healthcare, we give you free education and all we ask for in return is your vote.  What they don't realize is that when they build this new majority, they will end up being booted from office and the party they seek to preserve will become a different party.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are wrong on sooooo many levels.  The government has *NO authority* to penalize an employer for giving a job to the person the employer deems to be the best employee.
> 
> If not for an *ILLEGAL ACT* by the United States Supreme Court in 1875, the federal government would not be involved in the issue of who the employer hires relative to foreigners.  That is wholly a states rights issue.  For the anti-immigrants to wail and bitch about the "_Rule of Law_," they don't give a rip when the government helps the anti-immigrant cause at the expense of any "_Rule of Law._"
> 
> The reality is, the globalists want a one world, one race, one religion society that is easily led around.  *What you are lobbying for is exactly the same thing the Democrat leadership wants*.  They simply sent in Donnie the Dictator to confuse you.  I keep posting this, but the anti-immigrant types cannot see how they are being played:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you suppose the Ds and the Rs changed places?  They didn't.  The Democrats simply conned the Republicans into making this specious argument that Republicans are bigger negrophilists - one world, one race religionists than the Democrats are.  So, the Democrats are using Trump (with his knowledge and permission of course) to pull the hood over your eyes (pun intended) and make this an absolute *POLICE STATE*.  The build the wall guys get on this board every day with their hatred of the Constitution and a phony "_Rule of Law_" argument while helping the Democrats turn America into a socialist cesspool.
> 
> You want to punish employers for giving a job they created (and the employer *OWNS*) to someone besides an American?  WTH?  When the government owns and controls the jobs, that is called *SOCIALISM*. Where in the Hell were you people when civics classes talked about property Rights???
> 
> You are the master of your own destiny.  Boycott the little brown people and American companies that cater to them.  Vote with your wallet and your pocket book.  Don't think the government can save you from yourself with small doses of socialism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If illegal employers are afraid of the penalties, they won't hire illegal workers who aren't supposed to be here.
> 
> Did you file for a HB1 visa before you hired them?  You're supposed to prove to the government that you tried but couldn't find any Americans to do the job before you start outsourcing.
> 
> Can I buy my drugs from Canada?  Why not?  How come I'm forced to buy from an American drug manufacturer?  I should be able to go outside the United States to get my drugs.
Click to expand...


Bullshit.  The government has criminalized drugs.  Most of it is felonies.  Does that stop it?  Do you know why?  Most people feel they own their bodies and it is none of your business what they do with it.

If the government comes down on businesses, they simply relocate to other countries that won't screw with them.  Instead of penalizing them, you could *incentivize *them.  When Trump gave tax breaks to businesses for no reason, that was stupidity.  IF he were not a globalist and cared about you, he would have made businesses EARN their tax breaks:

*  A tax break for employers who hire an ALL American staff
*  Tax breaks to take people off unemployment, welfare, and disability
*  Tax breaks to bring jobs to the United States
*  Tax breaks for employers who start their employees off at a wage that is a given percentage over poverty level

Employers own the jobs they create.  Penalizing them to enforce racist laws enacted by Democrats is freaking hilarious - especially when it's Trump supporters advocating it.


----------



## Agit8r

Federal law allows for the forfeiture of assets of those hiring undocumented aliens.  But of course this administration would rather squander resources by keeping people in cages.


----------



## danielpalos

Agit8r said:


> Federal law allows for the forfeiture of assets of those hiring undocumented aliens.  But of course this administration would rather squander resources by keeping people in cages.


There is no express immigration clause and we should not be losing money on border policy with a Commerce Clause and welfare clause General.


----------



## kwc57

sealybobo said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> My goodness...….(sarcasm on) if you prevent businesses from hiring them, aren't you engaging in institutional racism against brown people?(sarcasm off)  If the government were to enforce those laws, they will be met with the same protests from liberals/Democrats of conservative racism.  If you argue for open borders, the last thing you want to see happen is limiting jobs.
> 
> Look, I believe companies who hire illegals should be held accountable, but that isn't the end all be all for stopping illegal immigration.  Would it help? Sure.  Is it the cure? No.  You'll never get Democrats in Congress to agree to support "racist" laws.  The truth is, they want them here to build a new majority base.  We give you citizenship, we give you healthcare, we give you free education and all we ask for in return is your vote.  What they don't realize is that when they build this new majority, they will end up being booted from office and the party they seek to preserve will become a different party.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is just your right wing talking point.
> 
> A.  We want them here because they will vote Democratic.  BS.  In fact if you weren't calling them murderers and rapist, hispanic people are very fucking conservative.
> B. Going after illegal employers isn't the cure.  Yes it is.  Going after illegal immigrants is like playing wack a mole.  If you go after illegal employers and they stop, the problems go home.  We used to have migrants come here, pick fruit and veggies, then go home after the season was over.  No one EVER minded that.  Those were jobs Americans wouldn't do.  But then during the time of Reagan he signaled to employers that there wouldn't be penalties for illegal employers.  Soon Mexicans were coming here to do landscaping, construction, home remodeling, janitor, maid services, etc....  In other words jobs Americans were doing.
> 
> No liberal is going to cry if you start going after illegal employers.  The fact is, Republicans won't even discuss illegal employers.  They can't.  This is why what Trump is doing is just a fucking con game.  Until I see them penalizing illegal employers, I won't believe he is serious about fixing the problem.  Don't build a wall they'll just climb over or dig under in order to go work for the illegal employers who are what is luring them here.
Click to expand...

Bovine feces.  It is simply another arrow in the liberal quiver to falsely claim conservatives as racist and if you can't see that, you are willfully blind.  Let's say that legislation is written to penalize employers, how many Democrats are going to vote for it and how many are going to say it's a racist ploy to deny "brown people" the American dream?  I can tell you which way that will fall and if you were honest, you'd admit it.  Democrats aren't promising free shit out of altruism.  It's designed to replace the base they've grown ashamed of and are trying to drive away. If you're a Democrat, you need to look in the mirror and see if you look anything like the bitter clingers Obama dismissed or the deplorables Hillary dismissed.  Tell me, how can they tell who is and who isn't?  Sure, you look in the mirror and say, "I'm not deplorable.  I'm not xenophobic, homophobic, racist, etc."  But your own party leadership sees you that way and they are building a new base that doesn't include you.  They'll gladly take your vote as a useful idiot, but they will give you the same treatment Biden is getting by the new kids on the block.  YOU are not part of their future.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> My goodness...….(sarcasm on) if you prevent businesses from hiring them, aren't you engaging in institutional racism against brown people?(sarcasm off)  If the government were to enforce those laws, they will be met with the same protests from liberals/Democrats of conservative racism.  If you argue for open borders, the last thing you want to see happen is limiting jobs.
> 
> Look, I believe companies who hire illegals should be held accountable, but that isn't the end all be all for stopping illegal immigration.  Would it help? Sure.  Is it the cure? No.  You'll never get Democrats in Congress to agree to support "racist" laws.  The truth is, they want them here to build a new majority base.  We give you citizenship, we give you healthcare, we give you free education and all we ask for in return is your vote.  What they don't realize is that when they build this new majority, they will end up being booted from office and the party they seek to preserve will become a different party.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are wrong on sooooo many levels.  The government has *NO authority* to penalize an employer for giving a job to the person the employer deems to be the best employee.
> 
> If not for an *ILLEGAL ACT* by the United States Supreme Court in 1875, the federal government would not be involved in the issue of who the employer hires relative to foreigners.  That is wholly a states rights issue.  For the anti-immigrants to wail and bitch about the "_Rule of Law_," they don't give a rip when the government helps the anti-immigrant cause at the expense of any "_Rule of Law._"
> 
> The reality is, the globalists want a one world, one race, one religion society that is easily led around.  *What you are lobbying for is exactly the same thing the Democrat leadership wants*.  They simply sent in Donnie the Dictator to confuse you.  I keep posting this, but the anti-immigrant types cannot see how they are being played:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you suppose the Ds and the Rs changed places?  They didn't.  The Democrats simply conned the Republicans into making this specious argument that Republicans are bigger negrophilists - one world, one race religionists than the Democrats are.  So, the Democrats are using Trump (with his knowledge and permission of course) to pull the hood over your eyes (pun intended) and make this an absolute *POLICE STATE*.  The build the wall guys get on this board every day with their hatred of the Constitution and a phony "_Rule of Law_" argument while helping the Democrats turn America into a socialist cesspool.
> 
> You want to punish employers for giving a job they created (and the employer *OWNS*) to someone besides an American?  WTH?  When the government owns and controls the jobs, that is called *SOCIALISM*. Where in the Hell were you people when civics classes talked about property Rights???
> 
> You are the master of your own destiny.  Boycott the little brown people and American companies that cater to them.  Vote with your wallet and your pocket book.  Don't think the government can save you from yourself with small doses of socialism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If illegal employers are afraid of the penalties, they won't hire illegal workers who aren't supposed to be here.
> 
> Did you file for a HB1 visa before you hired them?  You're supposed to prove to the government that you tried but couldn't find any Americans to do the job before you start outsourcing.
> 
> Can I buy my drugs from Canada?  Why not?  How come I'm forced to buy from an American drug manufacturer?  I should be able to go outside the United States to get my drugs.
Click to expand...


Since I don't owe anyone a job AND let me repeat:  THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE ANY CONSTITUTIONAL *AUTHORITY* TO TELL ME WHO I CAN AND CANNOT HIRE, THEN I DON'T WORRY ABOUT PAPERWORK. There is a wide berth of difference between* power* and *authority*.

From what I infer (and you can correct me if I'm wrong) you think I'm too stupid to know there are a lot of statutes that say you can do this and can't do that relative to foreigners.  The reality is, those unconstitutional laws, forced into law by Democrats, and with the intent to dilute the white vote, have as much meaning to me as the Constitution had to the younger George Bush (who referred to the Constitution as just a "_god damned piece of paper._")

Anybody that would tell you I don't love my country is a liar and a coward.  *NONE* of them have sweated more, sacrificed more, and put their lives on the line any more times than I have for this country.  I can tell you what it's like to be beat; I can tell you what it's like to be shot at; I can tell you what it's like to be tortured; I can tell you what it feels like to face the so - called "_Patriot Act_" with no Due Process and my very life on the line.  I don't owe any man out there any more than I've already given.

What you need to do is get off your high horse and ask yourself what* YOU'VE* done for this country.  I offer jobs and help people locked out of the system to find jobs.  I save a lot of poor people from losing their homes.  Unfortunately,* MANY* Americans are drug addicts with no education, no skill sets, no work ethic, no driver's license, and not even a work history... going into their 30s and beyond.  They have a criminal record, lots of tattoos, body piercings, a smoking habit, a drinking habit.... and a mortal enemy that I cannot compete against - and that would be their mother.

Mothers got their kids hooked on drugs at a young age, divorced the father, and treat their kids like little children well into middle age.  They encourage grown men to live with mommy, never work a job, suck off the welfare teat, and be human parasites.  They are in my family and they are in your family.  These people do not contribute a damn thing to society - and unless you want to go with me and drag their sorry asses out of the house and *FORCE *them to work, then you got the wrong guy to try and shame.  You might want to try these women who are enabling their kids that are now in their 20s, 30s and 40s to sit on their ass and not work or get a job.

I don't like the situation.  I give people who say they can't get a job because they don't have a high school diploma or they have a criminal record opportunities.  They'd rather sit on their ass and the reality is America doesn't operate when the posterity of the founders are lazy ass mother fuckers and dope dealers are swarming all over Dictator Donnie as if he hung the moon, falsely thinking he's against foreign laborers.  So, you run the businesses out, provide a safe haven for dope addicts, and think we can remain a superpower on the world scene???  Ain't gonna happen.

Clean up your own culture.  Complain about the lack of young white men without an education, tell them to clean up their act,  and dress like human beings instead of circus clowns.  They need a GED, a life coach and they need to get the Hell out of mommy's house.  They don't need more weed or heroin - not even cigarettes and booze.  They need my size 9 1/2 boot stuck in their ass so that they are motivated to move.  But, for those pumping drugs into society, enabling the lazy to remain lazy have *NO* room to criticize me for hiring people on the basis of whether they will show up and *DO* the job.  

And if you want drugs, you shouldn't have to go to Canada and there is no sound constitutional reason why you shouldn't be able to buy drugs from another country.  All that is really amounts to drug dealers with legal licenses protecting their turf from competition.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Federal law allows for the forfeiture of assets of those hiring undocumented aliens.  But of course this administration would rather squander resources by keeping people in cages.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no express immigration clause and we should not be losing money on border policy with a Commerce Clause and welfare clause General.
Click to expand...


You need some new material.  BTW, is this some of that practice so that you don't forget your standard canard?


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Agit8r said:


> Federal law allows for the forfeiture of assets of those hiring undocumented aliens.  But of course this administration would rather squander resources by keeping people in cages.




Are you endorsing legalized stealing?


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Federal law allows for the forfeiture of assets of those hiring undocumented aliens.  But of course this administration would rather squander resources by keeping people in cages.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no express immigration clause and we should not be losing money on border policy with a Commerce Clause and welfare clause General.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need some new material.  BTW, is this some of that practice so that you don't forget your standard canard?
Click to expand...

All need is Standing.  There is no provision for excuses in the federal doctrine.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Federal law allows for the forfeiture of assets of those hiring undocumented aliens.  But of course this administration would rather squander resources by keeping people in cages.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no express immigration clause and we should not be losing money on border policy with a Commerce Clause and welfare clause General.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need some new material.  BTW, is this some of that practice so that you don't forget your standard canard?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All need is Standing.  There is no provision for excuses in the federal doctrine.
Click to expand...


If that means anything, it is only to you.  Se habla Ingles?


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Federal law allows for the forfeiture of assets of those hiring undocumented aliens.  But of course this administration would rather squander resources by keeping people in cages.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no express immigration clause and we should not be losing money on border policy with a Commerce Clause and welfare clause General.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need some new material.  BTW, is this some of that practice so that you don't forget your standard canard?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All need is Standing.  There is no provision for excuses in the federal doctrine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If that means anything, it is only to you.  Se habla Ingles?
Click to expand...

you only get away with that in totally frivolous venues.  

i know you won't try it in a more, superior venue.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Federal law allows for the forfeiture of assets of those hiring undocumented aliens.  But of course this administration would rather squander resources by keeping people in cages.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no express immigration clause and we should not be losing money on border policy with a Commerce Clause and welfare clause General.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need some new material.  BTW, is this some of that practice so that you don't forget your standard canard?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All need is Standing.  There is no provision for excuses in the federal doctrine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If that means anything, it is only to you.  Se habla Ingles?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you only get away with that in totally frivolous venues.
> 
> i know you won't try it in a more, superior venue.
Click to expand...


Some new words, no new meaning.  I know a debate site if you'd like to PM me and challenge me.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no express immigration clause and we should not be losing money on border policy with a Commerce Clause and welfare clause General.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need some new material.  BTW, is this some of that practice so that you don't forget your standard canard?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All need is Standing.  There is no provision for excuses in the federal doctrine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If that means anything, it is only to you.  Se habla Ingles?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you only get away with that in totally frivolous venues.
> 
> i know you won't try it in a more, superior venue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some new words, no new meaning.  I know a debate site if you'd like to PM me and challenge me.
Click to expand...

what, some right wing fantasy site?


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no express immigration clause and we should not be losing money on border policy with a Commerce Clause and welfare clause General.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need some new material.  BTW, is this some of that practice so that you don't forget your standard canard?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All need is Standing.  There is no provision for excuses in the federal doctrine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If that means anything, it is only to you.  Se habla Ingles?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you only get away with that in totally frivolous venues.
> 
> i know you won't try it in a more, superior venue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some new words, no new meaning.  I know a debate site if you'd like to PM me and challenge me.
Click to expand...

Show us the express immigration clause, don't imply it, right wingers.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need some new material.  BTW, is this some of that practice so that you don't forget your standard canard?
> 
> 
> 
> All need is Standing.  There is no provision for excuses in the federal doctrine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If that means anything, it is only to you.  Se habla Ingles?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you only get away with that in totally frivolous venues.
> 
> i know you won't try it in a more, superior venue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some new words, no new meaning.  I know a debate site if you'd like to PM me and challenge me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show us the express immigration clause, don't imply it, right wingers.
Click to expand...


You are freaking paranoid.  Everybody that knows you're a fruit loop are not necessarily right wingers.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need some new material.  BTW, is this some of that practice so that you don't forget your standard canard?
> 
> 
> 
> All need is Standing.  There is no provision for excuses in the federal doctrine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If that means anything, it is only to you.  Se habla Ingles?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you only get away with that in totally frivolous venues.
> 
> i know you won't try it in a more, superior venue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some new words, no new meaning.  I know a debate site if you'd like to PM me and challenge me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what, some right wing fantasy site?
Click to expand...



No sir, a left wing pabulum puking site.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> All need is Standing.  There is no provision for excuses in the federal doctrine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that means anything, it is only to you.  Se habla Ingles?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you only get away with that in totally frivolous venues.
> 
> i know you won't try it in a more, superior venue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some new words, no new meaning.  I know a debate site if you'd like to PM me and challenge me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show us the express immigration clause, don't imply it, right wingers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are freaking paranoid.  Everybody that knows you're a fruit loop are not necessarily right wingers.
Click to expand...

ad hominems as as non sequiturs are usually termed and styled, non-responsive, in more serious and less frivolous venues.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> All need is Standing.  There is no provision for excuses in the federal doctrine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that means anything, it is only to you.  Se habla Ingles?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you only get away with that in totally frivolous venues.
> 
> i know you won't try it in a more, superior venue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some new words, no new meaning.  I know a debate site if you'd like to PM me and challenge me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what, some right wing fantasy site?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No sir, a left wing pabulum puking site.
Click to expand...

...like i expect you to be more serious than Any wo-man about a something, really really serious.


----------



## Death Angel

sealybobo said:


> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"


Illegal Democrat politician problem is what we have.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> All need is Standing.  There is no provision for excuses in the federal doctrine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that means anything, it is only to you.  Se habla Ingles?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you only get away with that in totally frivolous venues.
> 
> i know you won't try it in a more, superior venue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some new words, no new meaning.  I know a debate site if you'd like to PM me and challenge me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what, some right wing fantasy site?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No sir, a left wing pabulum puking site.
Click to expand...

go ahead and pm me the site.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> If that means anything, it is only to you.  Se habla Ingles?
> 
> 
> 
> you only get away with that in totally frivolous venues.
> 
> i know you won't try it in a more, superior venue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some new words, no new meaning.  I know a debate site if you'd like to PM me and challenge me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what, some right wing fantasy site?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No sir, a left wing pabulum puking site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...like i expect you to be more serious than Any wo-man about a something, really really serious.
Click to expand...


WTF are you babbling about after calling dudes *"dear*"?  You are a girlie boy.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> If that means anything, it is only to you.  Se habla Ingles?
> 
> 
> 
> you only get away with that in totally frivolous venues.
> 
> i know you won't try it in a more, superior venue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some new words, no new meaning.  I know a debate site if you'd like to PM me and challenge me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show us the express immigration clause, don't imply it, right wingers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are freaking paranoid.  Everybody that knows you're a fruit loop are not necessarily right wingers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ad hominems as as non sequiturs are usually termed and styled, non-responsive, in more serious and less frivolous venues.
Click to expand...



LMFAO,  You just stole the right wing deflections to attack me with.You are the funniest comedian on this entire board.  I give this silly performance by you a two thumbs up.  Trump is so proud of you right now, he's masturbating and rereading the string of right wing deflections that are code for - you don't have shit, so you'll just a bunch of code words from the right.  LOL ROTF LMFAO.  Great job there dannyboy.


----------



## Correll

Porter Rockwell said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Before I landed the great corporate gig I have now I worked for a guy just lik you. He had a small business and he helped people who needed work but he payed very little.
> 
> I appreciated the job and it was my fault for taking it but I needed the work. He sort of lied about commissions and kept raising the sales goals, thus keeping me pretty much never making nothing, while growing his business.
> 
> But, it was my fault for taking the job. He kept saying show me what you got but never wanted to pay off.
> 
> Anyways, long story short is he also wrote me a great letter of recommendation that got me this great corporate gig. Good thing I left on good terms.
> 
> So in some ways I appreciate him and you, and part of me wants to kick you in the balls.
> 
> P.s. I treat small businesses differently than I do corporations. The Fortune 500s who have extreme out of control ceo pay. Those workers need to organize.
> 
> My brother is a 3rd level vote and he makes $800,000 a year. Ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I still pay more than any other employer doing the same jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The point is not that you are a bad person.
> 
> 
> The point is that the market is effected by an excess of labor supply driving down the price.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do realize that my take on economics is supported by a man who won a Nobel in economics, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If he doesn't believe that an excess of supply drives down prices, he was/is full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, if you read the links I've provided, you know the answer.
Click to expand...



not the way it works.


my point stands.


----------



## Correll

Porter Rockwell said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I asked lots of questions. I note that you are not denying my conclusion, nor offering any alternate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw a lot of accusations.  What, exactly, is it that you want to know?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There were no accusations. Your evasion is noted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're the one copping out.  Is there something you really want to know about me?  Ask your question (s)  I will try to get to them tomorrow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> We already covered that ground, and I made my points. They are right there in the thread if you want to correct them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like I said, if you had a question, you would ask it.  Making silly accusations is a waste of bandwidth and sheer arrogance on your part.  You presume to read my mind and tell others what I think.
Click to expand...



I have no questions. I asked all the questions already. I was just telling seely about what I learned.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Correll said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw a lot of accusations.  What, exactly, is it that you want to know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were no accusations. Your evasion is noted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're the one copping out.  Is there something you really want to know about me?  Ask your question (s)  I will try to get to them tomorrow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> We already covered that ground, and I made my points. They are right there in the thread if you want to correct them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like I said, if you had a question, you would ask it.  Making silly accusations is a waste of bandwidth and sheer arrogance on your part.  You presume to read my mind and tell others what I think.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I have no questions. I asked all the questions already. I was just telling seely about what I learned.
Click to expand...


Either you didn't learn anything OR you fed the other poster a line of shit to keep from hiding who and what YOU are.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Correll said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I still pay more than any other employer doing the same jobs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point is not that you are a bad person.
> 
> 
> The point is that the market is effected by an excess of labor supply driving down the price.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do realize that my take on economics is supported by a man who won a Nobel in economics, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If he doesn't believe that an excess of supply drives down prices, he was/is full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, if you read the links I've provided, you know the answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> not the way it works.
> 
> 
> my point stands.
Click to expand...




Correll said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I still pay more than any other employer doing the same jobs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point is not that you are a bad person.
> 
> 
> The point is that the market is effected by an excess of labor supply driving down the price.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do realize that my take on economics is supported by a man who won a Nobel in economics, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If he doesn't believe that an excess of supply drives down prices, he was/is full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, if you read the links I've provided, you know the answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> not the way it works.
> 
> 
> my point stands.
Click to expand...


You haven't made a point.  All you have done on this board is to try  intimidate me and harass me.  All you've done is stuff you are too chickenshit to do to people in public for obvious reasons.

Your punk ass don't know anything about me, but I can tell you one damn thing that is FACT:  I've made more sacrifices for this country, spilled more blood, put myself in harm's way and given more than you ever could or would.

For you to lie about me, misrepresent my position, and think that you have the right to judge me is beyond any words I can post on the Internet.  When I want to make the kind of comments to anyone that you have to me, it is done face to face and for a damn good reason.  I don't pretend to be Dr. Phil on the Internet just to piss someone off for telling the truth.

The truth is, America was founded for the benefit of white people.  They were instilled with a false guilt complex.  So, now both sides want you to believe that they are the more dedicated negrophilists and to Hell with their own culture.  They don't want to be called racists.

Meanwhile, people such as yourself, come onto the Internet and think that you can browbeat people into believing the fairy tales that you believe.  There is one important element that you forget:

Back when all this anti-immigrant bullshit started, I already had a couple of decades of actual experience in think tanks working with the people who made up the talking points that you spew.  Hell, some of it is my own work.  *THEN*, to make damn sure nobody could call me racist, prejudiced or any of the other emotion laden buzz words the left likes to bandy about, I worked in immigration law... for six years.  

Ultimately, all I could understand about people like you is that they are consistently wrong.  What I see are lazy ass white people who have lowered themselves into the worship of drugs.  America consumes over 80 percent of the world's opioid supply; we have more heroin addicts than anywhere on this planet.  Some of the people on your side, financing your *losing war *are drug dealers.  One of my biggest critics on this very board claims to be a _"legal"_ pot seller.

Rarely does a week go by that I'm not in some guy's house and I point to his mother and tell him, _"that is the biggest enemy you have_." Mommy brought her baby up thinking that drugs were necessary to get by from day to day.  She mollycoddles him and allows him to stay at her house for free and he draws money from the welfare dole - usually a couple hundred bucks a month on a debit card for food.  The mothers are telling me their sons contribute by putting food on the table.  To which I say bullshit.  That's my money your kid is using to put that food on the table.

The only people who don't have a job in my neighborhood are those that don't want a job.  Virtually all of those are white males that smoke weed, waste their money on drugs, tattoos and body piercings while thinking Donald Trump (who is playing the right) is God.  They're like you.  They don't contribute a damn thing to their own welfare NOR to their country.  I offer jobs to people and virtually all the work I do is in poor neighborhoods.  I want to tell you a little *fact*:

A subcontractor offered me 25 percent of the net on any job I could refer him to.  I declined the offer.  I told him if I refer a job to him, he gives me $30 and charges the customer 20 percent less than if he is in neighborhoods with houses costing $200,000 and up.  I get to verify it of course.  I'm about helping people in the poor neighborhoods.  

In order for the wheels of progress to turn, somebody has to work.  I offer jobs and outright tell you I give preference to white males since I'd like to see the posterity of America reclaim their Rights.  You don't have a smart ass comeback to that.  But, in your little world of a government God, that is probably among the most egregious "_crimes_" I can commit. It's considered worse than raping a white woman.  When people need their homes worked on and cannot afford some stupid jackass charging $985 an hour for doing stuff a monkey with a pipe wrench can do, I'll gladly pay the monkey and let Redneck Bubba worry about how to finance a lavish lifestyle he's living.  You don't seem to get it. Many of the people I help sometimes have to choose between fixing their house (because the county will shut you down for the smallest infractions) or buying their medicines.  

I own the jobs I create.  When "_Americans_" don't show up, I gladly hire the foreigner.  I don't work for the government.  I'm not one of their agents, bitches, snitches, or tax collectors.  IF / when the "_Americans_" in my neighborhood want to go back to work, build this community I'll sacrifice all I can to help them.  But, there is not a swinging dick on the face of this earth that is going to tell me who I can hire.  I'm going to keep my home going and when other people are in a bind, I'm going to help them.  I want the posterity of the founders to rebuild their country, but I can't beat them into it.  Well, I can beat 'em, but they would run off to Uncle Scam and I'd be in trouble and they'd still be worthless pieces of shit... from what you're written about me, they're probably people you'd get along with.


----------



## Correll

Porter Rockwell said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point is not that you are a bad person.
> 
> 
> The point is that the market is effected by an excess of labor supply driving down the price.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize that my take on economics is supported by a man who won a Nobel in economics, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If he doesn't believe that an excess of supply drives down prices, he was/is full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, if you read the links I've provided, you know the answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> not the way it works.
> 
> 
> my point stands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point is not that you are a bad person.
> 
> 
> The point is that the market is effected by an excess of labor supply driving down the price.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do realize that my take on economics is supported by a man who won a Nobel in economics, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If he doesn't believe that an excess of supply drives down prices, he was/is full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, if you read the links I've provided, you know the answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> not the way it works.
> 
> 
> my point stands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You haven't made a point.  All you have done on this board is to try  intimidate me and harass me.  All you've done is stuff you are too chickenshit to do to people in public for obvious reasons.
> 
> Your punk ass don't know anything about me, but I can tell you one damn thing that is FACT:  I've made more sacrifices for this country, spilled more blood, put myself in harm's way and given more than you ever could or would.
> 
> For you to lie about me, misrepresent my position, and think that you have the right to judge me is beyond any words I can post on the Internet.  When I want to make the kind of comments to anyone that you have to me, it is done face to face and for a damn good reason.  I don't pretend to be Dr. Phil on the Internet just to piss someone off for telling the truth.
> 
> The truth is, America was founded for the benefit of white people. .....h.
Click to expand...



Yeah, I stopped reading there.


I'm not trying to harass you, nor intimidate you. I made a comment to Seely ABOUT you, sharing my conclusion about you.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Correll said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize that my take on economics is supported by a man who won a Nobel in economics, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If he doesn't believe that an excess of supply drives down prices, he was/is full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, if you read the links I've provided, you know the answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> not the way it works.
> 
> 
> my point stands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize that my take on economics is supported by a man who won a Nobel in economics, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If he doesn't believe that an excess of supply drives down prices, he was/is full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, if you read the links I've provided, you know the answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> not the way it works.
> 
> 
> my point stands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You haven't made a point.  All you have done on this board is to try  intimidate me and harass me.  All you've done is stuff you are too chickenshit to do to people in public for obvious reasons.
> 
> Your punk ass don't know anything about me, but I can tell you one damn thing that is FACT:  I've made more sacrifices for this country, spilled more blood, put myself in harm's way and given more than you ever could or would.
> 
> For you to lie about me, misrepresent my position, and think that you have the right to judge me is beyond any words I can post on the Internet.  When I want to make the kind of comments to anyone that you have to me, it is done face to face and for a damn good reason.  I don't pretend to be Dr. Phil on the Internet just to piss someone off for telling the truth.
> 
> The truth is, America was founded for the benefit of white people. .....h.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I stopped reading there.
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to harass you, nor intimidate you. I made a comment to Seely ABOUT you, sharing my conclusion about you.
Click to expand...


You can stop wherever you like.  Seely might read up on you now.  If not him, somebody whose opinion you want to influence.  The way you present everything, if it is not responded to, then it must be true.  So you gave your opinion of me; I returned the favor.  It don't matter whether you read it or not.  Given your rationale, if you don't address it, then it must be true.


----------



## Correll

Porter Rockwell said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> If he doesn't believe that an excess of supply drives down prices, he was/is full of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if you read the links I've provided, you know the answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> not the way it works.
> 
> 
> my point stands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> If he doesn't believe that an excess of supply drives down prices, he was/is full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, if you read the links I've provided, you know the answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> not the way it works.
> 
> 
> my point stands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You haven't made a point.  All you have done on this board is to try  intimidate me and harass me.  All you've done is stuff you are too chickenshit to do to people in public for obvious reasons.
> 
> Your punk ass don't know anything about me, but I can tell you one damn thing that is FACT:  I've made more sacrifices for this country, spilled more blood, put myself in harm's way and given more than you ever could or would.
> 
> For you to lie about me, misrepresent my position, and think that you have the right to judge me is beyond any words I can post on the Internet.  When I want to make the kind of comments to anyone that you have to me, it is done face to face and for a damn good reason.  I don't pretend to be Dr. Phil on the Internet just to piss someone off for telling the truth.
> 
> The truth is, America was founded for the benefit of white people. .....h.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I stopped reading there.
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to harass you, nor intimidate you. I made a comment to Seely ABOUT you, sharing my conclusion about you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can stop wherever you like.  Seely might read up on you now.  If not him, somebody whose opinion you want to influence.  The way you present everything, if it is not responded to, then it must be true.  So you gave your opinion of me; I returned the favor.  It don't matter whether you read it or not.  Given your rationale, if you don't address it, then it must be true.
Click to expand...


Seely and I have had MORE back and forth, and MORE* dis*agreement that you and I. He knows me better than YOU do.


So, go ahead, tell him your opinion on me.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Correll said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if you read the links I've provided, you know the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not the way it works.
> 
> 
> my point stands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if you read the links I've provided, you know the answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> not the way it works.
> 
> 
> my point stands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You haven't made a point.  All you have done on this board is to try  intimidate me and harass me.  All you've done is stuff you are too chickenshit to do to people in public for obvious reasons.
> 
> Your punk ass don't know anything about me, but I can tell you one damn thing that is FACT:  I've made more sacrifices for this country, spilled more blood, put myself in harm's way and given more than you ever could or would.
> 
> For you to lie about me, misrepresent my position, and think that you have the right to judge me is beyond any words I can post on the Internet.  When I want to make the kind of comments to anyone that you have to me, it is done face to face and for a damn good reason.  I don't pretend to be Dr. Phil on the Internet just to piss someone off for telling the truth.
> 
> The truth is, America was founded for the benefit of white people. .....h.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I stopped reading there.
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to harass you, nor intimidate you. I made a comment to Seely ABOUT you, sharing my conclusion about you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can stop wherever you like.  Seely might read up on you now.  If not him, somebody whose opinion you want to influence.  The way you present everything, if it is not responded to, then it must be true.  So you gave your opinion of me; I returned the favor.  It don't matter whether you read it or not.  Given your rationale, if you don't address it, then it must be true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seely and I have had MORE back and forth, and MORE* dis*agreement that you and I. He knows me better than YOU do.
> 
> 
> So, go ahead, tell him your opinion on me.
Click to expand...


I did.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> you only get away with that in totally frivolous venues.
> 
> i know you won't try it in a more, superior venue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some new words, no new meaning.  I know a debate site if you'd like to PM me and challenge me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what, some right wing fantasy site?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No sir, a left wing pabulum puking site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...like i expect you to be more serious than Any wo-man about a something, really really serious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF are you babbling about after calling dudes *"dear*"?  You are a girlie boy.
Click to expand...

i can only, condescend so much.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> you only get away with that in totally frivolous venues.
> 
> i know you won't try it in a more, superior venue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some new words, no new meaning.  I know a debate site if you'd like to PM me and challenge me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show us the express immigration clause, don't imply it, right wingers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are freaking paranoid.  Everybody that knows you're a fruit loop are not necessarily right wingers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ad hominems as as non sequiturs are usually termed and styled, non-responsive, in more serious and less frivolous venues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LMFAO,  You just stole the right wing deflections to attack me with.You are the funniest comedian on this entire board.  I give this silly performance by you a two thumbs up.  Trump is so proud of you right now, he's masturbating and rereading the string of right wing deflections that are code for - you don't have shit, so you'll just a bunch of code words from the right.  LOL ROTF LMFAO.  Great job there dannyboy.
Click to expand...

show us the express immigration clause, don't imply it, right wingers.  Enforce express Naturalization law, right wingers.  Don't be illegal to express law.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some new words, no new meaning.  I know a debate site if you'd like to PM me and challenge me.
> 
> 
> 
> Show us the express immigration clause, don't imply it, right wingers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are freaking paranoid.  Everybody that knows you're a fruit loop are not necessarily right wingers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ad hominems as as non sequiturs are usually termed and styled, non-responsive, in more serious and less frivolous venues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LMFAO,  You just stole the right wing deflections to attack me with.You are the funniest comedian on this entire board.  I give this silly performance by you a two thumbs up.  Trump is so proud of you right now, he's masturbating and rereading the string of right wing deflections that are code for - you don't have shit, so you'll just a bunch of code words from the right.  LOL ROTF LMFAO.  Great job there dannyboy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> show us the express immigration clause, don't imply it, right wingers.  Enforce express Naturalization law, right wingers.  Don't be illegal to express law.
Click to expand...


Nobody paid you any attention today, dannyboy?

What are you babbling about?  WTF makes you think I'm on the right when they have nothing but contempt for me?  Don't you think that B.S. kind of negates the rest of your argument (?) if that is what that bullshit is.

Express, implied... who gives a fuck dannyboy?  Who cares?  Congress has one duty when it comes to foreigners and that is to pass a uniform Rule of Naturalization (which they did.)  The rest was to be left to the states.  

I don't understand what you keep yapping about.  You need some new material because what you're saying doesn't make a Hell of a lot of sense and hundreds of people have told you that over the years.  

Is this shit your whole life?  You need to get out and explore the world.  Posting the same meaningless words over and over must get monotonous.  The fact that you said you had to practice it tells us that you are about two french fries shy of a Happy Meal.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some new words, no new meaning.  I know a debate site if you'd like to PM me and challenge me.
> 
> 
> 
> what, some right wing fantasy site?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No sir, a left wing pabulum puking site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...like i expect you to be more serious than Any wo-man about a something, really really serious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF are you babbling about after calling dudes *"dear*"?  You are a girlie boy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i can only, condescend so much.
Click to expand...


Does someone pay you to be condescending?  Is that what your meaningless posts are about?  You need some new material.  You're doing a shitty job and destroying your own credibility.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> what, some right wing fantasy site?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No sir, a left wing pabulum puking site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...like i expect you to be more serious than Any wo-man about a something, really really serious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF are you babbling about after calling dudes *"dear*"?  You are a girlie boy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i can only, condescend so much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does someone pay you to be condescending?  Is that what your meaningless posts are about?  You need some new material.  You're doing a shitty job and destroying your own credibility.
Click to expand...

lol.  no, i don't.  You need valid arguments not merely ad hominems.


----------



## sealybobo

danielpalos said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOU NEED SOME NEW MATERIAL
> 
> 
> 
> you have no valid rebuttals.  you know you Have to lose if we have to get, supreme.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Daniel, I think I agree with you but it's hard to tell because you keep saying shit only you understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> like what?  i usually ask questions until i win my arguments.  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here you go again with another riddle I have do decipher.  LOL.
> 
> Like what?  Like you saying this:  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> Age of Iron?  Is that a Marvel movie?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> just my perception of the right wing.
> 
> i have no confidence in their sincerity.
Click to expand...


Trump won't go after illegal employers but he will waste taxpayer money putting migrants in prison just to score political points.

*Trump Administration Prosecutes Migrant Workers Arrested In Mississippi ICE Raid*
Forty-one of the workers face criminal prosecution under immigration laws

Immigration officials rounded up some 680 unauthorized migrants working at the plants

You telling me the company didn't know 680 of their employees were unauthorized?  Impossible.

Critics like immigration lawyer David Leopold contend that ICE’s worksite investigations should focus on employers who exploit undocumented labor, rather than on workers. 

One of the workers charged with felony reentry had been sent back to Mexico twice in 2006, after getting arrested both times at the border in Calexico, California. After finally making his way past the border, immigration officials arrested him during a 2008 worksite raid of Howard Industries in Laurel, Mississippi. At the time, it was the largest single-state worksite operation in ICE history, with 600 arrests. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but Mississippi doesn't have any sanctuary cities right?  

Who should be going to jail?  The owner of Koch Industries and Howard Industries.  Are you trying to tell me Mr. Koch didn't hear about the raid on Howard Industries in 2008?  

I read the entire article.  Not one mention of going after the illegal employer.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> No sir, a left wing pabulum puking site.
> 
> 
> 
> ...like i expect you to be more serious than Any wo-man about a something, really really serious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF are you babbling about after calling dudes *"dear*"?  You are a girlie boy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i can only, condescend so much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does someone pay you to be condescending?  Is that what your meaningless posts are about?  You need some new material.  You're doing a shitty job and destroying your own credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol.  no, i don't.  You need valid arguments not merely ad hominems.
Click to expand...


The right wing should teach you how to use those right wing standard talking points, dannyboy.  You are trying to switch sides.  Saw you recruiting on another site.  What militia are you in, BTW?


----------



## danielpalos

sealybobo said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> you have no valid rebuttals.  you know you Have to lose if we have to get, supreme.
> 
> 
> 
> Daniel, I think I agree with you but it's hard to tell because you keep saying shit only you understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> like what?  i usually ask questions until i win my arguments.  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here you go again with another riddle I have do decipher.  LOL.
> 
> Like what?  Like you saying this:  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> Age of Iron?  Is that a Marvel movie?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> just my perception of the right wing.
> 
> i have no confidence in their sincerity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump won't go after illegal employers but he will waste taxpayer money putting migrants in prison just to score political points.
> 
> *Trump Administration Prosecutes Migrant Workers Arrested In Mississippi ICE Raid*
> Forty-one of the workers face criminal prosecution under immigration laws
> 
> Immigration officials rounded up some 680 unauthorized migrants working at the plants
> 
> You telling me the company didn't know 680 of their employees were unauthorized?  Impossible.
> 
> Critics like immigration lawyer David Leopold contend that ICE’s worksite investigations should focus on employers who exploit undocumented labor, rather than on workers.
> 
> One of the workers charged with felony reentry had been sent back to Mexico twice in 2006, after getting arrested both times at the border in Calexico, California. After finally making his way past the border, immigration officials arrested him during a 2008 worksite raid of Howard Industries in Laurel, Mississippi. At the time, it was the largest single-state worksite operation in ICE history, with 600 arrests.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but Mississippi doesn't have any sanctuary cities right?
> 
> Who should be going to jail?  The owner of Koch Industries and Howard Industries.  Are you trying to tell me Mr. Koch didn't hear about the raid on Howard Industries in 2008?
> 
> I read the entire article.  Not one mention of going after the illegal employer.
Click to expand...

I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...like i expect you to be more serious than Any wo-man about a something, really really serious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WTF are you babbling about after calling dudes *"dear*"?  You are a girlie boy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i can only, condescend so much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does someone pay you to be condescending?  Is that what your meaningless posts are about?  You need some new material.  You're doing a shitty job and destroying your own credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol.  no, i don't.  You need valid arguments not merely ad hominems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The right wing should teach you how to use those right wing standard talking points, dannyboy.  You are trying to switch sides.  Saw you recruiting on another site.  What militia are you in, BTW?
Click to expand...

We have a Second Amendment and should have no security problems in our free States.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> WTF are you babbling about after calling dudes *"dear*"?  You are a girlie boy.
> 
> 
> 
> i can only, condescend so much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does someone pay you to be condescending?  Is that what your meaningless posts are about?  You need some new material.  You're doing a shitty job and destroying your own credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol.  no, i don't.  You need valid arguments not merely ad hominems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The right wing should teach you how to use those right wing standard talking points, dannyboy.  You are trying to switch sides.  Saw you recruiting on another site.  What militia are you in, BTW?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We have a Second Amendment and should have no security problems in our free States.
Click to expand...


Do you think we have a security problem?  Are you in the militia?


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> i can only, condescend so much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does someone pay you to be condescending?  Is that what your meaningless posts are about?  You need some new material.  You're doing a shitty job and destroying your own credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol.  no, i don't.  You need valid arguments not merely ad hominems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The right wing should teach you how to use those right wing standard talking points, dannyboy.  You are trying to switch sides.  Saw you recruiting on another site.  What militia are you in, BTW?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We have a Second Amendment and should have no security problems in our free States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you think we have a security problem?  Are you in the militia?
Click to expand...

We currently have security problems we should not have.  And, i am not in the organized militia.  Draft gun lovers, first!


----------



## sealybobo

danielpalos said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Daniel, I think I agree with you but it's hard to tell because you keep saying shit only you understand.
> 
> 
> 
> like what?  i usually ask questions until i win my arguments.  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here you go again with another riddle I have do decipher.  LOL.
> 
> Like what?  Like you saying this:  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> Age of Iron?  Is that a Marvel movie?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> just my perception of the right wing.
> 
> i have no confidence in their sincerity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump won't go after illegal employers but he will waste taxpayer money putting migrants in prison just to score political points.
> 
> *Trump Administration Prosecutes Migrant Workers Arrested In Mississippi ICE Raid*
> Forty-one of the workers face criminal prosecution under immigration laws
> 
> Immigration officials rounded up some 680 unauthorized migrants working at the plants
> 
> You telling me the company didn't know 680 of their employees were unauthorized?  Impossible.
> 
> Critics like immigration lawyer David Leopold contend that ICE’s worksite investigations should focus on employers who exploit undocumented labor, rather than on workers.
> 
> One of the workers charged with felony reentry had been sent back to Mexico twice in 2006, after getting arrested both times at the border in Calexico, California. After finally making his way past the border, immigration officials arrested him during a 2008 worksite raid of Howard Industries in Laurel, Mississippi. At the time, it was the largest single-state worksite operation in ICE history, with 600 arrests.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but Mississippi doesn't have any sanctuary cities right?
> 
> Who should be going to jail?  The owner of Koch Industries and Howard Industries.  Are you trying to tell me Mr. Koch didn't hear about the raid on Howard Industries in 2008?
> 
> I read the entire article.  Not one mention of going after the illegal employer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
Click to expand...


Illegals do seem to keep getting in. I think it’s on purpose. Maybe the drug cartels start killing senators if the border completely closes. Or maybe that’s how American companies want it.

With the technology we have we should be able to find bodies walking in a desert


----------



## danielpalos

sealybobo said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> like what?  i usually ask questions until i win my arguments.  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go again with another riddle I have do decipher.  LOL.
> 
> Like what?  Like you saying this:  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> Age of Iron?  Is that a Marvel movie?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> just my perception of the right wing.
> 
> i have no confidence in their sincerity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump won't go after illegal employers but he will waste taxpayer money putting migrants in prison just to score political points.
> 
> *Trump Administration Prosecutes Migrant Workers Arrested In Mississippi ICE Raid*
> Forty-one of the workers face criminal prosecution under immigration laws
> 
> Immigration officials rounded up some 680 unauthorized migrants working at the plants
> 
> You telling me the company didn't know 680 of their employees were unauthorized?  Impossible.
> 
> Critics like immigration lawyer David Leopold contend that ICE’s worksite investigations should focus on employers who exploit undocumented labor, rather than on workers.
> 
> One of the workers charged with felony reentry had been sent back to Mexico twice in 2006, after getting arrested both times at the border in Calexico, California. After finally making his way past the border, immigration officials arrested him during a 2008 worksite raid of Howard Industries in Laurel, Mississippi. At the time, it was the largest single-state worksite operation in ICE history, with 600 arrests.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but Mississippi doesn't have any sanctuary cities right?
> 
> Who should be going to jail?  The owner of Koch Industries and Howard Industries.  Are you trying to tell me Mr. Koch didn't hear about the raid on Howard Industries in 2008?
> 
> I read the entire article.  Not one mention of going after the illegal employer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Illegals do seem to keep getting in. I think it’s on purpose. Maybe the drug cartels start killing senators if the border completely closes. Or maybe that’s how American companies want it.
> 
> With the technology we have we should be able to find bodies walking in a desert
Click to expand...

seems like conspiracy.  There is no express immigration in our federal Constitution.  Do you think the right wing would have this much problem with the left, if there were?


----------



## sealybobo

danielpalos said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go again with another riddle I have do decipher.  LOL.
> 
> Like what?  Like you saying this:  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> Age of Iron?  Is that a Marvel movie?
> 
> 
> 
> just my perception of the right wing.
> 
> i have no confidence in their sincerity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump won't go after illegal employers but he will waste taxpayer money putting migrants in prison just to score political points.
> 
> *Trump Administration Prosecutes Migrant Workers Arrested In Mississippi ICE Raid*
> Forty-one of the workers face criminal prosecution under immigration laws
> 
> Immigration officials rounded up some 680 unauthorized migrants working at the plants
> 
> You telling me the company didn't know 680 of their employees were unauthorized?  Impossible.
> 
> Critics like immigration lawyer David Leopold contend that ICE’s worksite investigations should focus on employers who exploit undocumented labor, rather than on workers.
> 
> One of the workers charged with felony reentry had been sent back to Mexico twice in 2006, after getting arrested both times at the border in Calexico, California. After finally making his way past the border, immigration officials arrested him during a 2008 worksite raid of Howard Industries in Laurel, Mississippi. At the time, it was the largest single-state worksite operation in ICE history, with 600 arrests.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but Mississippi doesn't have any sanctuary cities right?
> 
> Who should be going to jail?  The owner of Koch Industries and Howard Industries.  Are you trying to tell me Mr. Koch didn't hear about the raid on Howard Industries in 2008?
> 
> I read the entire article.  Not one mention of going after the illegal employer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Illegals do seem to keep getting in. I think it’s on purpose. Maybe the drug cartels start killing senators if the border completely closes. Or maybe that’s how American companies want it.
> 
> With the technology we have we should be able to find bodies walking in a desert
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> seems like conspiracy.  There is no express immigration in our federal Constitution.  Do you think the right wing would have this much problem with the left, if there were?
Click to expand...

You keep saying that but I don’t understand.


----------



## danielpalos

sealybobo said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> just my perception of the right wing.
> 
> i have no confidence in their sincerity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump won't go after illegal employers but he will waste taxpayer money putting migrants in prison just to score political points.
> 
> *Trump Administration Prosecutes Migrant Workers Arrested In Mississippi ICE Raid*
> Forty-one of the workers face criminal prosecution under immigration laws
> 
> Immigration officials rounded up some 680 unauthorized migrants working at the plants
> 
> You telling me the company didn't know 680 of their employees were unauthorized?  Impossible.
> 
> Critics like immigration lawyer David Leopold contend that ICE’s worksite investigations should focus on employers who exploit undocumented labor, rather than on workers.
> 
> One of the workers charged with felony reentry had been sent back to Mexico twice in 2006, after getting arrested both times at the border in Calexico, California. After finally making his way past the border, immigration officials arrested him during a 2008 worksite raid of Howard Industries in Laurel, Mississippi. At the time, it was the largest single-state worksite operation in ICE history, with 600 arrests.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but Mississippi doesn't have any sanctuary cities right?
> 
> Who should be going to jail?  The owner of Koch Industries and Howard Industries.  Are you trying to tell me Mr. Koch didn't hear about the raid on Howard Industries in 2008?
> 
> I read the entire article.  Not one mention of going after the illegal employer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Illegals do seem to keep getting in. I think it’s on purpose. Maybe the drug cartels start killing senators if the border completely closes. Or maybe that’s how American companies want it.
> 
> With the technology we have we should be able to find bodies walking in a desert
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> seems like conspiracy.  There is no express immigration in our federal Constitution.  Do you think the right wing would have this much problem with the left, if there were?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep saying that but I don’t understand.
Click to expand...

It is about being legal to the law.  Show us the express immigration clause in our federal Constitution, don't Imply it.  The right wing is not, legal to the law but blame the less fortunate.  There is a Religious, technical term for that.


----------



## sealybobo

danielpalos said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trump won't go after illegal employers but he will waste taxpayer money putting migrants in prison just to score political points.
> 
> *Trump Administration Prosecutes Migrant Workers Arrested In Mississippi ICE Raid*
> Forty-one of the workers face criminal prosecution under immigration laws
> 
> Immigration officials rounded up some 680 unauthorized migrants working at the plants
> 
> You telling me the company didn't know 680 of their employees were unauthorized?  Impossible.
> 
> Critics like immigration lawyer David Leopold contend that ICE’s worksite investigations should focus on employers who exploit undocumented labor, rather than on workers.
> 
> One of the workers charged with felony reentry had been sent back to Mexico twice in 2006, after getting arrested both times at the border in Calexico, California. After finally making his way past the border, immigration officials arrested him during a 2008 worksite raid of Howard Industries in Laurel, Mississippi. At the time, it was the largest single-state worksite operation in ICE history, with 600 arrests.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but Mississippi doesn't have any sanctuary cities right?
> 
> Who should be going to jail?  The owner of Koch Industries and Howard Industries.  Are you trying to tell me Mr. Koch didn't hear about the raid on Howard Industries in 2008?
> 
> I read the entire article.  Not one mention of going after the illegal employer.
> 
> 
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Illegals do seem to keep getting in. I think it’s on purpose. Maybe the drug cartels start killing senators if the border completely closes. Or maybe that’s how American companies want it.
> 
> With the technology we have we should be able to find bodies walking in a desert
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> seems like conspiracy.  There is no express immigration in our federal Constitution.  Do you think the right wing would have this much problem with the left, if there were?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep saying that but I don’t understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is about being legal to the law.  Show us the express immigration clause in our federal Constitution, don't Imply it.  The right wing is not, legal to the law but blame the less fortunate.  There is a Religious, technical term for that.
Click to expand...

Who’s talking about an express immigration clause? What is an express immigration clause?

The right wing is not what?


----------



## sealybobo

Walt said:


> Sealybobo, I agree that the repubs, do not help the situation at all with their hiring of illegals. However I also see that the majority, if not all, mayors of sanctuary cities are dems { I cannot think of a mayor who is a repub doing this}. Also dems also own business and hire illegals. So what we get is a bunch of bloviating rhetoric from both sides while the problem continues. All I can think of when it comes to our politicans "talking" about solving problems is Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles pounding his desk saying "we have to protect our phoney baloney jobs gentelmen". Alot of talk, while things continue to deteroriate and nothing really worth while gets accomplished. IMHO.


The raids recently were in Mississippi not sanctuary cities.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does someone pay you to be condescending?  Is that what your meaningless posts are about?  You need some new material.  You're doing a shitty job and destroying your own credibility.
> 
> 
> 
> lol.  no, i don't.  You need valid arguments not merely ad hominems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The right wing should teach you how to use those right wing standard talking points, dannyboy.  You are trying to switch sides.  Saw you recruiting on another site.  What militia are you in, BTW?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We have a Second Amendment and should have no security problems in our free States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you think we have a security problem?  Are you in the militia?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We currently have security problems we should not have.  And, i am not in the organized militia.  Draft gun lovers, first!
Click to expand...


Does federal law not cover the unorganized militia?  Are you saying you are or are not a part of it?


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> like what?  i usually ask questions until i win my arguments.  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go again with another riddle I have do decipher.  LOL.
> 
> Like what?  Like you saying this:  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> Age of Iron?  Is that a Marvel movie?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> just my perception of the right wing.
> 
> i have no confidence in their sincerity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump won't go after illegal employers but he will waste taxpayer money putting migrants in prison just to score political points.
> 
> *Trump Administration Prosecutes Migrant Workers Arrested In Mississippi ICE Raid*
> Forty-one of the workers face criminal prosecution under immigration laws
> 
> Immigration officials rounded up some 680 unauthorized migrants working at the plants
> 
> You telling me the company didn't know 680 of their employees were unauthorized?  Impossible.
> 
> Critics like immigration lawyer David Leopold contend that ICE’s worksite investigations should focus on employers who exploit undocumented labor, rather than on workers.
> 
> One of the workers charged with felony reentry had been sent back to Mexico twice in 2006, after getting arrested both times at the border in Calexico, California. After finally making his way past the border, immigration officials arrested him during a 2008 worksite raid of Howard Industries in Laurel, Mississippi. At the time, it was the largest single-state worksite operation in ICE history, with 600 arrests.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but Mississippi doesn't have any sanctuary cities right?
> 
> Who should be going to jail?  The owner of Koch Industries and Howard Industries.  Are you trying to tell me Mr. Koch didn't hear about the raid on Howard Industries in 2008?
> 
> I read the entire article.  Not one mention of going after the illegal employer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Illegals do seem to keep getting in. I think it’s on purpose. Maybe the drug cartels start killing senators if the border completely closes. Or maybe that’s how American companies want it.
> 
> With the technology we have we should be able to find bodies walking in a desert
Click to expand...


I think we can post a lot of stuff about opinions on this subject, but if you want the straight skinny with NO bluster, this IS worth your time and WILL give you the facts:

America's War on Drugs (TV Mini-Series 2017) - IMDb


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Daniel, I think I agree with you but it's hard to tell because you keep saying shit only you understand.
> 
> 
> 
> like what?  i usually ask questions until i win my arguments.  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here you go again with another riddle I have do decipher.  LOL.
> 
> Like what?  Like you saying this:  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> Age of Iron?  Is that a Marvel movie?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> just my perception of the right wing.
> 
> i have no confidence in their sincerity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump won't go after illegal employers but he will waste taxpayer money putting migrants in prison just to score political points.
> 
> *Trump Administration Prosecutes Migrant Workers Arrested In Mississippi ICE Raid*
> Forty-one of the workers face criminal prosecution under immigration laws
> 
> Immigration officials rounded up some 680 unauthorized migrants working at the plants
> 
> You telling me the company didn't know 680 of their employees were unauthorized?  Impossible.
> 
> Critics like immigration lawyer David Leopold contend that ICE’s worksite investigations should focus on employers who exploit undocumented labor, rather than on workers.
> 
> One of the workers charged with felony reentry had been sent back to Mexico twice in 2006, after getting arrested both times at the border in Calexico, California. After finally making his way past the border, immigration officials arrested him during a 2008 worksite raid of Howard Industries in Laurel, Mississippi. At the time, it was the largest single-state worksite operation in ICE history, with 600 arrests.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but Mississippi doesn't have any sanctuary cities right?
> 
> Who should be going to jail?  The owner of Koch Industries and Howard Industries.  Are you trying to tell me Mr. Koch didn't hear about the raid on Howard Industries in 2008?
> 
> I read the entire article.  Not one mention of going after the illegal employer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
Click to expand...



America is wasting money because we can and *DO* control the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  The anti-immigrants don't want to admit that walls and the forfeiture of Rights will not stop it.

Only the American people can stop the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  They have to change their culture and pursue the drug culture the way the left pursues anything they deem "_racist_."

You have to voluntarily boycott those who do business with foreigners and support American made and American owned businesses that have NO foreigners working for them.  The government cannot save you from yourself.


----------



## pknopp

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> like what?  i usually ask questions until i win my arguments.  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go again with another riddle I have do decipher.  LOL.
> 
> Like what?  Like you saying this:  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> Age of Iron?  Is that a Marvel movie?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> just my perception of the right wing.
> 
> i have no confidence in their sincerity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump won't go after illegal employers but he will waste taxpayer money putting migrants in prison just to score political points.
> 
> *Trump Administration Prosecutes Migrant Workers Arrested In Mississippi ICE Raid*
> Forty-one of the workers face criminal prosecution under immigration laws
> 
> Immigration officials rounded up some 680 unauthorized migrants working at the plants
> 
> You telling me the company didn't know 680 of their employees were unauthorized?  Impossible.
> 
> Critics like immigration lawyer David Leopold contend that ICE’s worksite investigations should focus on employers who exploit undocumented labor, rather than on workers.
> 
> One of the workers charged with felony reentry had been sent back to Mexico twice in 2006, after getting arrested both times at the border in Calexico, California. After finally making his way past the border, immigration officials arrested him during a 2008 worksite raid of Howard Industries in Laurel, Mississippi. At the time, it was the largest single-state worksite operation in ICE history, with 600 arrests.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but Mississippi doesn't have any sanctuary cities right?
> 
> Who should be going to jail?  The owner of Koch Industries and Howard Industries.  Are you trying to tell me Mr. Koch didn't hear about the raid on Howard Industries in 2008?
> 
> I read the entire article.  Not one mention of going after the illegal employer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> America is wasting money because we can and *DO* control the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  The anti-immigrants don't want to admit that walls and the forfeiture of Rights will not stop it.
> 
> Only the American people can stop the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  They have to change their culture and pursue the drug culture the way the left pursues anything they deem "_racist_."
> 
> You have to voluntarily boycott those who do business with foreigners and support American made and American owned businesses that have NO foreigners working for them.  The government cannot save you from yourself.
Click to expand...


 I've never seen a product labelled "Proudly Made by Illegal Labor".


----------



## Porter Rockwell

pknopp said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go again with another riddle I have do decipher.  LOL.
> 
> Like what?  Like you saying this:  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> Age of Iron?  Is that a Marvel movie?
> 
> 
> 
> just my perception of the right wing.
> 
> i have no confidence in their sincerity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump won't go after illegal employers but he will waste taxpayer money putting migrants in prison just to score political points.
> 
> *Trump Administration Prosecutes Migrant Workers Arrested In Mississippi ICE Raid*
> Forty-one of the workers face criminal prosecution under immigration laws
> 
> Immigration officials rounded up some 680 unauthorized migrants working at the plants
> 
> You telling me the company didn't know 680 of their employees were unauthorized?  Impossible.
> 
> Critics like immigration lawyer David Leopold contend that ICE’s worksite investigations should focus on employers who exploit undocumented labor, rather than on workers.
> 
> One of the workers charged with felony reentry had been sent back to Mexico twice in 2006, after getting arrested both times at the border in Calexico, California. After finally making his way past the border, immigration officials arrested him during a 2008 worksite raid of Howard Industries in Laurel, Mississippi. At the time, it was the largest single-state worksite operation in ICE history, with 600 arrests.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but Mississippi doesn't have any sanctuary cities right?
> 
> Who should be going to jail?  The owner of Koch Industries and Howard Industries.  Are you trying to tell me Mr. Koch didn't hear about the raid on Howard Industries in 2008?
> 
> I read the entire article.  Not one mention of going after the illegal employer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> America is wasting money because we can and *DO* control the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  The anti-immigrants don't want to admit that walls and the forfeiture of Rights will not stop it.
> 
> Only the American people can stop the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  They have to change their culture and pursue the drug culture the way the left pursues anything they deem "_racist_."
> 
> You have to voluntarily boycott those who do business with foreigners and support American made and American owned businesses that have NO foreigners working for them.  The government cannot save you from yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've never seen a product labelled "Proudly Made by Illegal Labor".
Click to expand...


I guess some folks need a boulder to fall on their head in order to get it.  Most undocumented workers in America are working in landscaping, fast food, retail, and other service industries.

If you know of a company with a high percentage of non-white workers, then you know it is what it is.  

I don't know what _"illegal"_ labor is.  The federal government has *no* de jure / constitutional authority over who an employer hires as long as we still have a Right to own property. They may have the* power*, but they absolutely have *no authority*.  So, let me guess, you don't believe in the Rule of Law when the government infringes on private business to your benefit?


----------



## pknopp

Porter Rockwell said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> just my perception of the right wing.
> 
> i have no confidence in their sincerity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump won't go after illegal employers but he will waste taxpayer money putting migrants in prison just to score political points.
> 
> *Trump Administration Prosecutes Migrant Workers Arrested In Mississippi ICE Raid*
> Forty-one of the workers face criminal prosecution under immigration laws
> 
> Immigration officials rounded up some 680 unauthorized migrants working at the plants
> 
> You telling me the company didn't know 680 of their employees were unauthorized?  Impossible.
> 
> Critics like immigration lawyer David Leopold contend that ICE’s worksite investigations should focus on employers who exploit undocumented labor, rather than on workers.
> 
> One of the workers charged with felony reentry had been sent back to Mexico twice in 2006, after getting arrested both times at the border in Calexico, California. After finally making his way past the border, immigration officials arrested him during a 2008 worksite raid of Howard Industries in Laurel, Mississippi. At the time, it was the largest single-state worksite operation in ICE history, with 600 arrests.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but Mississippi doesn't have any sanctuary cities right?
> 
> Who should be going to jail?  The owner of Koch Industries and Howard Industries.  Are you trying to tell me Mr. Koch didn't hear about the raid on Howard Industries in 2008?
> 
> I read the entire article.  Not one mention of going after the illegal employer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> America is wasting money because we can and *DO* control the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  The anti-immigrants don't want to admit that walls and the forfeiture of Rights will not stop it.
> 
> Only the American people can stop the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  They have to change their culture and pursue the drug culture the way the left pursues anything they deem "_racist_."
> 
> You have to voluntarily boycott those who do business with foreigners and support American made and American owned businesses that have NO foreigners working for them.  The government cannot save you from yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've never seen a product labelled "Proudly Made by Illegal Labor".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess some folks need a boulder to fall on their head in order to get it.  Most undocumented workers in America are working in landscaping, fast food, retail, and other service industries.
> 
> If you know of a company with a high percentage of non-white workers, then you know it is what it is.
> 
> I don't know what _"illegal"_ labor is.  The federal government has *no* de jure / constitutional authority over who an employer hires as long as we still have a Right to own property. They may have the* power*, but they absolutely have *no authority*.  So, let me guess, you don't believe in the Rule of Law when the government infringes on private business to your benefit?
Click to expand...

 
 We can deal in realities or not.


----------



## danielpalos

sealybobo said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illegals do seem to keep getting in. I think it’s on purpose. Maybe the drug cartels start killing senators if the border completely closes. Or maybe that’s how American companies want it.
> 
> With the technology we have we should be able to find bodies walking in a desert
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> seems like conspiracy.  There is no express immigration in our federal Constitution.  Do you think the right wing would have this much problem with the left, if there were?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep saying that but I don’t understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is about being legal to the law.  Show us the express immigration clause in our federal Constitution, don't Imply it.  The right wing is not, legal to the law but blame the less fortunate.  There is a Religious, technical term for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who’s talking about an express immigration clause? What is an express immigration clause?
> 
> The right wing is not what?
Click to expand...

Words matter.  Show us the express immigration clause in our federal Constitution, right wingers.  Don't Imply it. Go ahead and show us where it is.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol.  no, i don't.  You need valid arguments not merely ad hominems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The right wing should teach you how to use those right wing standard talking points, dannyboy.  You are trying to switch sides.  Saw you recruiting on another site.  What militia are you in, BTW?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We have a Second Amendment and should have no security problems in our free States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you think we have a security problem?  Are you in the militia?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We currently have security problems we should not have.  And, i am not in the organized militia.  Draft gun lovers, first!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does federal law not cover the unorganized militia?  Are you saying you are or are not a part of it?
Click to expand...

I am saying, only the unorganized militia whines about gun control.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> like what?  i usually ask questions until i win my arguments.  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go again with another riddle I have do decipher.  LOL.
> 
> Like what?  Like you saying this:  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> Age of Iron?  Is that a Marvel movie?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> just my perception of the right wing.
> 
> i have no confidence in their sincerity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump won't go after illegal employers but he will waste taxpayer money putting migrants in prison just to score political points.
> 
> *Trump Administration Prosecutes Migrant Workers Arrested In Mississippi ICE Raid*
> Forty-one of the workers face criminal prosecution under immigration laws
> 
> Immigration officials rounded up some 680 unauthorized migrants working at the plants
> 
> You telling me the company didn't know 680 of their employees were unauthorized?  Impossible.
> 
> Critics like immigration lawyer David Leopold contend that ICE’s worksite investigations should focus on employers who exploit undocumented labor, rather than on workers.
> 
> One of the workers charged with felony reentry had been sent back to Mexico twice in 2006, after getting arrested both times at the border in Calexico, California. After finally making his way past the border, immigration officials arrested him during a 2008 worksite raid of Howard Industries in Laurel, Mississippi. At the time, it was the largest single-state worksite operation in ICE history, with 600 arrests.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but Mississippi doesn't have any sanctuary cities right?
> 
> Who should be going to jail?  The owner of Koch Industries and Howard Industries.  Are you trying to tell me Mr. Koch didn't hear about the raid on Howard Industries in 2008?
> 
> I read the entire article.  Not one mention of going after the illegal employer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> America is wasting money because we can and *DO* control the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  The anti-immigrants don't want to admit that walls and the forfeiture of Rights will not stop it.
> 
> Only the American people can stop the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  They have to change their culture and pursue the drug culture the way the left pursues anything they deem "_racist_."
> 
> You have to voluntarily boycott those who do business with foreigners and support American made and American owned businesses that have NO foreigners working for them.  The government cannot save you from yourself.
Click to expand...

You miss the point.  We need better solutions.  Our welfare clause is General and we have a Commerce Clause.  We should not be losing money on border policy with a naturalization clause.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go again with another riddle I have do decipher.  LOL.
> 
> Like what?  Like you saying this:  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> Age of Iron?  Is that a Marvel movie?
> 
> 
> 
> just my perception of the right wing.
> 
> i have no confidence in their sincerity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump won't go after illegal employers but he will waste taxpayer money putting migrants in prison just to score political points.
> 
> *Trump Administration Prosecutes Migrant Workers Arrested In Mississippi ICE Raid*
> Forty-one of the workers face criminal prosecution under immigration laws
> 
> Immigration officials rounded up some 680 unauthorized migrants working at the plants
> 
> You telling me the company didn't know 680 of their employees were unauthorized?  Impossible.
> 
> Critics like immigration lawyer David Leopold contend that ICE’s worksite investigations should focus on employers who exploit undocumented labor, rather than on workers.
> 
> One of the workers charged with felony reentry had been sent back to Mexico twice in 2006, after getting arrested both times at the border in Calexico, California. After finally making his way past the border, immigration officials arrested him during a 2008 worksite raid of Howard Industries in Laurel, Mississippi. At the time, it was the largest single-state worksite operation in ICE history, with 600 arrests.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but Mississippi doesn't have any sanctuary cities right?
> 
> Who should be going to jail?  The owner of Koch Industries and Howard Industries.  Are you trying to tell me Mr. Koch didn't hear about the raid on Howard Industries in 2008?
> 
> I read the entire article.  Not one mention of going after the illegal employer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> America is wasting money because we can and *DO* control the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  The anti-immigrants don't want to admit that walls and the forfeiture of Rights will not stop it.
> 
> Only the American people can stop the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  They have to change their culture and pursue the drug culture the way the left pursues anything they deem "_racist_."
> 
> You have to voluntarily boycott those who do business with foreigners and support American made and American owned businesses that have NO foreigners working for them.  The government cannot save you from yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You miss the point.  We need better solutions.  Our welfare clause is General and we have a Commerce Clause.  We should not be losing money on border policy with a naturalization clause.
Click to expand...


Give us your plan to fix America.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> The right wing should teach you how to use those right wing standard talking points, dannyboy.  You are trying to switch sides.  Saw you recruiting on another site.  What militia are you in, BTW?
> 
> 
> 
> We have a Second Amendment and should have no security problems in our free States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you think we have a security problem?  Are you in the militia?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We currently have security problems we should not have.  And, i am not in the organized militia.  Draft gun lovers, first!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does federal law not cover the unorganized militia?  Are you saying you are or are not a part of it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am saying, only the unorganized militia whines about gun control.
Click to expand...


The left obsesses over gun control to the point that they will NEVER discuss *prevention strategies* instead of gun control.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> just my perception of the right wing.
> 
> i have no confidence in their sincerity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump won't go after illegal employers but he will waste taxpayer money putting migrants in prison just to score political points.
> 
> *Trump Administration Prosecutes Migrant Workers Arrested In Mississippi ICE Raid*
> Forty-one of the workers face criminal prosecution under immigration laws
> 
> Immigration officials rounded up some 680 unauthorized migrants working at the plants
> 
> You telling me the company didn't know 680 of their employees were unauthorized?  Impossible.
> 
> Critics like immigration lawyer David Leopold contend that ICE’s worksite investigations should focus on employers who exploit undocumented labor, rather than on workers.
> 
> One of the workers charged with felony reentry had been sent back to Mexico twice in 2006, after getting arrested both times at the border in Calexico, California. After finally making his way past the border, immigration officials arrested him during a 2008 worksite raid of Howard Industries in Laurel, Mississippi. At the time, it was the largest single-state worksite operation in ICE history, with 600 arrests.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but Mississippi doesn't have any sanctuary cities right?
> 
> Who should be going to jail?  The owner of Koch Industries and Howard Industries.  Are you trying to tell me Mr. Koch didn't hear about the raid on Howard Industries in 2008?
> 
> I read the entire article.  Not one mention of going after the illegal employer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> America is wasting money because we can and *DO* control the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  The anti-immigrants don't want to admit that walls and the forfeiture of Rights will not stop it.
> 
> Only the American people can stop the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  They have to change their culture and pursue the drug culture the way the left pursues anything they deem "_racist_."
> 
> You have to voluntarily boycott those who do business with foreigners and support American made and American owned businesses that have NO foreigners working for them.  The government cannot save you from yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You miss the point.  We need better solutions.  Our welfare clause is General and we have a Commerce Clause.  We should not be losing money on border policy with a naturalization clause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Give us your plan to fix America.
Click to expand...

Solve simple poverty and our immigration problem by being more faithful to our Constitution.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have a Second Amendment and should have no security problems in our free States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think we have a security problem?  Are you in the militia?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We currently have security problems we should not have.  And, i am not in the organized militia.  Draft gun lovers, first!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does federal law not cover the unorganized militia?  Are you saying you are or are not a part of it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am saying, only the unorganized militia whines about gun control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The left obsesses over gun control to the point that they will NEVER discuss *prevention strategies* instead of gun control.
Click to expand...

Don't grab guns, grab gun lovers and regulate them well.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

pknopp said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trump won't go after illegal employers but he will waste taxpayer money putting migrants in prison just to score political points.
> 
> *Trump Administration Prosecutes Migrant Workers Arrested In Mississippi ICE Raid*
> Forty-one of the workers face criminal prosecution under immigration laws
> 
> Immigration officials rounded up some 680 unauthorized migrants working at the plants
> 
> You telling me the company didn't know 680 of their employees were unauthorized?  Impossible.
> 
> Critics like immigration lawyer David Leopold contend that ICE’s worksite investigations should focus on employers who exploit undocumented labor, rather than on workers.
> 
> One of the workers charged with felony reentry had been sent back to Mexico twice in 2006, after getting arrested both times at the border in Calexico, California. After finally making his way past the border, immigration officials arrested him during a 2008 worksite raid of Howard Industries in Laurel, Mississippi. At the time, it was the largest single-state worksite operation in ICE history, with 600 arrests.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but Mississippi doesn't have any sanctuary cities right?
> 
> Who should be going to jail?  The owner of Koch Industries and Howard Industries.  Are you trying to tell me Mr. Koch didn't hear about the raid on Howard Industries in 2008?
> 
> I read the entire article.  Not one mention of going after the illegal employer.
> 
> 
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> America is wasting money because we can and *DO* control the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  The anti-immigrants don't want to admit that walls and the forfeiture of Rights will not stop it.
> 
> Only the American people can stop the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  They have to change their culture and pursue the drug culture the way the left pursues anything they deem "_racist_."
> 
> You have to voluntarily boycott those who do business with foreigners and support American made and American owned businesses that have NO foreigners working for them.  The government cannot save you from yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've never seen a product labelled "Proudly Made by Illegal Labor".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess some folks need a boulder to fall on their head in order to get it.  Most undocumented workers in America are working in landscaping, fast food, retail, and other service industries.
> 
> If you know of a company with a high percentage of non-white workers, then you know it is what it is.
> 
> I don't know what _"illegal"_ labor is.  The federal government has *no* de jure / constitutional authority over who an employer hires as long as we still have a Right to own property. They may have the* power*, but they absolutely have *no authority*.  So, let me guess, you don't believe in the Rule of Law when the government infringes on private business to your benefit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We can deal in realities or not.
Click to expand...


I don't know what reality you deal in, but the bottom line to all bottom lines is that right always bitches, moans, groans, cries and complains about a *Rule of Law.*  Is that not true?  Is it also not true that when the that "_Rule of Law_" works for you, you're all for it?  Have you ever read the Tenth Amendment?  Probably not, so let me quote it for you:

"_The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people_."

You and I have an *unalienable* Right to own property.  Employers own the jobs they create.  NOBODY has the de jure / constitutional authority to limit who the employer can or cannot hire.  So, about that "_Rule of Law,":
_
If not for the United States Supreme Court *illegally* bestowing upon Congress _plenary powers_ over foreigners to Congress, it would be a state's prerogative as to whether a foreigner could or could not work in the United States. You cannot show me a single sentence in the United States Constitution that gives the United States Supreme Court *ANY authority* to grant to another branch of government any power.  So, where is your "_Rule of Law_" now?

The 14th Amendment was* illegally* ratified and it repealed all *unalienable* Rights, replacing them with government granted rights... which helps you prop up the socialist immigration laws put into place by Democrats.  So, you don't really have a _Bill of Rights_ except to the extent that the United States Supreme Court wants to dole them out and claim they grant you your Rights.  Today, you don't really have any Right to own a firearm, own property, voice your opinions in public... Where is your "_Rule of Law_" now?

You are being a Democrat wannabe, hiding behind immigration laws that were designed to dilute the white peoples vote.  You'd better see this ASAP:

Stolen Rights

Now *THAT'S* reality.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think we have a security problem?  Are you in the militia?
> 
> 
> 
> We currently have security problems we should not have.  And, i am not in the organized militia.  Draft gun lovers, first!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does federal law not cover the unorganized militia?  Are you saying you are or are not a part of it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am saying, only the unorganized militia whines about gun control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The left obsesses over gun control to the point that they will NEVER discuss *prevention strategies* instead of gun control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't grab guns, grab gun lovers and regulate them well.
Click to expand...


How do you grab gun lovers?


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trump won't go after illegal employers but he will waste taxpayer money putting migrants in prison just to score political points.
> 
> *Trump Administration Prosecutes Migrant Workers Arrested In Mississippi ICE Raid*
> Forty-one of the workers face criminal prosecution under immigration laws
> 
> Immigration officials rounded up some 680 unauthorized migrants working at the plants
> 
> You telling me the company didn't know 680 of their employees were unauthorized?  Impossible.
> 
> Critics like immigration lawyer David Leopold contend that ICE’s worksite investigations should focus on employers who exploit undocumented labor, rather than on workers.
> 
> One of the workers charged with felony reentry had been sent back to Mexico twice in 2006, after getting arrested both times at the border in Calexico, California. After finally making his way past the border, immigration officials arrested him during a 2008 worksite raid of Howard Industries in Laurel, Mississippi. At the time, it was the largest single-state worksite operation in ICE history, with 600 arrests.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but Mississippi doesn't have any sanctuary cities right?
> 
> Who should be going to jail?  The owner of Koch Industries and Howard Industries.  Are you trying to tell me Mr. Koch didn't hear about the raid on Howard Industries in 2008?
> 
> I read the entire article.  Not one mention of going after the illegal employer.
> 
> 
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> America is wasting money because we can and *DO* control the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  The anti-immigrants don't want to admit that walls and the forfeiture of Rights will not stop it.
> 
> Only the American people can stop the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  They have to change their culture and pursue the drug culture the way the left pursues anything they deem "_racist_."
> 
> You have to voluntarily boycott those who do business with foreigners and support American made and American owned businesses that have NO foreigners working for them.  The government cannot save you from yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You miss the point.  We need better solutions.  Our welfare clause is General and we have a Commerce Clause.  We should not be losing money on border policy with a naturalization clause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Give us your plan to fix America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Solve simple poverty and our immigration problem by being more faithful to our Constitution.
Click to expand...


Is that another way of saying raise the minimum wage?


----------



## Manonthestreet

sealybobo said:


> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"


Fallacy and chicken and egg situation. They are hiring them because libs supply them in an unending stream. I know an employer that would call Immigration and say they discovered some in their employ, fire the whole lot and hire new ones to stay on good side of govt. Made it look like they took the law serious. I would also ask how many illegals are self employed and pay zero taxes.


----------



## pknopp

Porter Rockwell said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America is wasting money because we can and *DO* control the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  The anti-immigrants don't want to admit that walls and the forfeiture of Rights will not stop it.
> 
> Only the American people can stop the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  They have to change their culture and pursue the drug culture the way the left pursues anything they deem "_racist_."
> 
> You have to voluntarily boycott those who do business with foreigners and support American made and American owned businesses that have NO foreigners working for them.  The government cannot save you from yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've never seen a product labelled "Proudly Made by Illegal Labor".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess some folks need a boulder to fall on their head in order to get it.  Most undocumented workers in America are working in landscaping, fast food, retail, and other service industries.
> 
> If you know of a company with a high percentage of non-white workers, then you know it is what it is.
> 
> I don't know what _"illegal"_ labor is.  The federal government has *no* de jure / constitutional authority over who an employer hires as long as we still have a Right to own property. They may have the* power*, but they absolutely have *no authority*.  So, let me guess, you don't believe in the Rule of Law when the government infringes on private business to your benefit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We can deal in realities or not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know what reality you deal in, but the bottom line to all bottom lines is that right always bitches, moans, groans, cries and complains about a *Rule of Law.*  Is that not true?  Is it also not true that when the that "_Rule of Law_" works for you, you're all for it?  Have you ever read the Tenth Amendment?  Probably not, so let me quote it for you:
> 
> "_The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people_."
> 
> You and I have an *unalienable* Right to own property.  Employers own the jobs they create.  NOBODY has the de jure / constitutional authority to limit who the employer can or cannot hire.  So, about that "_Rule of Law,":
> _
> If not for the United States Supreme Court *illegally* bestowing upon Congress _plenary powers_ over foreigners to Congress, it would be a state's prerogative as to whether a foreigner could or could not work in the United States. You cannot show me a single sentence in the United States Constitution that gives the United States Supreme Court *ANY authority* to grant to another branch of government any power.  So, where is your "_Rule of Law_" now?
> 
> The 14th Amendment was* illegally* ratified and it repealed all *unalienable* Rights, replacing them with government granted rights... which helps you prop up the socialist immigration laws put into place by Democrats.  So, you don't really have a _Bill of Rights_ except to the extent that the United States Supreme Court wants to dole them out and claim they grant you your Rights.  Today, you don't really have any Right to own a firearm, own property, voice your opinions in public... Where is your "_Rule of Law_" now?
> 
> You are being a Democrat wannabe, hiding behind immigration laws that were designed to dilute the white peoples vote.  You'd better see this ASAP:
> 
> Stolen Rights
> 
> Now *THAT'S* reality.
Click to expand...


Go for it.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

The fact that employers hiring undocumented workers is not an issue for Republicans demonstrates that the right’s unwarranted hostility toward immigrants has nothing to do with alleged violations of immigration law and everything to do with rightwing hate and bigotry directed at Hispanic immigrants.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> We currently have security problems we should not have.  And, i am not in the organized militia.  Draft gun lovers, first!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does federal law not cover the unorganized militia?  Are you saying you are or are not a part of it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am saying, only the unorganized militia whines about gun control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The left obsesses over gun control to the point that they will NEVER discuss *prevention strategies* instead of gun control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't grab guns, grab gun lovers and regulate them well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do you grab gun lovers?
Click to expand...


The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America is wasting money because we can and *DO* control the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  The anti-immigrants don't want to admit that walls and the forfeiture of Rights will not stop it.
> 
> Only the American people can stop the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  They have to change their culture and pursue the drug culture the way the left pursues anything they deem "_racist_."
> 
> You have to voluntarily boycott those who do business with foreigners and support American made and American owned businesses that have NO foreigners working for them.  The government cannot save you from yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You miss the point.  We need better solutions.  Our welfare clause is General and we have a Commerce Clause.  We should not be losing money on border policy with a naturalization clause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Give us your plan to fix America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Solve simple poverty and our immigration problem by being more faithful to our Constitution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is that another way of saying raise the minimum wage?
Click to expand...

...part of it.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> America is wasting money because we can and *DO* control the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  The anti-immigrants don't want to admit that walls and the forfeiture of Rights will not stop it.
> 
> Only the American people can stop the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  They have to change their culture and pursue the drug culture the way the left pursues anything they deem "_racist_."
> 
> You have to voluntarily boycott those who do business with foreigners and support American made and American owned businesses that have NO foreigners working for them.  The government cannot save you from yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> You miss the point.  We need better solutions.  Our welfare clause is General and we have a Commerce Clause.  We should not be losing money on border policy with a naturalization clause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Give us your plan to fix America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Solve simple poverty and our immigration problem by being more faithful to our Constitution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is that another way of saying raise the minimum wage?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...part of it.
Click to expand...



Okay, raise the minimum wage.  What's next?


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> You miss the point.  We need better solutions.  Our welfare clause is General and we have a Commerce Clause.  We should not be losing money on border policy with a naturalization clause.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Give us your plan to fix America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Solve simple poverty and our immigration problem by being more faithful to our Constitution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is that another way of saying raise the minimum wage?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...part of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, raise the minimum wage.  What's next?
Click to expand...

solve simple poverty on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Manonthestreet said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> Fallacy and chicken and egg situation. They are hiring them because libs supply them in an unending stream. I know an employer that would call Immigration and say they discovered some in their employ, fire the whole lot and hire new ones to stay on good side of govt. Made it look like they took the law serious. I would also ask how many illegals are self employed and pay zero taxes.
Click to expand...



1)  *NOBODY* avoids taxes

2)  According to the Chief Actuary of the Socialist Security Administration, about 75 percent of all undocumented foreigners get an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number and pay the same taxes you do

3)  The income tax is a plank out of the Communist Manifesto and was, supposedly, a _voluntary_ tax when it started out.  It is interesting that you are promoting an illegal tax that was taken from the pages of the Communist Manifesto

4)  Foreign labor is here because times are good and a lot of the American citizenry that is not working don't want to work.  *Nobody* is fooling anyone here.  America has more people in prison than any nation on this planet.  All that B.S. from the right about the National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify and background checks has helped locked many Americans out of the system.

Many people are living in mommy's house, NOT PAYING THE INCOME TAX, and preferring mommy's free rent, the taxpayer giving them upwards of $200 a month for food on a debit card, and occasional drugs they sell for a friend to pay for their own pot habit.

5)  The federal government has NO de jure / lawful / constitutional *authority* to tell me who I can and cannot hire.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Walt said:


> Sealybobo, I agree that the repubs, do not help the situation at all with their hiring of illegals. However I also see that the majority, if not all, mayors of sanctuary cities are dems { I cannot think of a mayor who is a repub doing this}. Also dems also own business and hire illegals. So what we get is a bunch of bloviating rhetoric from both sides while the problem continues. All I can think of when it comes to our politicans "talking" about solving problems is Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles pounding his desk saying "we have to protect our phoney baloney jobs gentelmen". Alot of talk, while things continue to deteroriate and nothing really worth while gets accomplished. IMHO.



Most Mayors, City Counsels and houses of worship in Sanctuary Cities are protecting families who have been in the US for decades, from the outrageous anti-humanitarian policies of trump.  They do not protect rapists, murderers and other assorted felons be they citizens or not.

Ask yourself why business and industry have not been fined, and the CEO's and HR Managers are not arrested, detained and when convicted be  imprisoned for fraud, and be required to personally pay restitution to SS and Medicare.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> Fallacy and chicken and egg situation. They are hiring them because libs supply them in an unending stream. I know an employer that would call Immigration and say they discovered some in their employ, fire the whole lot and hire new ones to stay on good side of govt. Made it look like they took the law serious. I would also ask how many illegals are self employed and pay zero taxes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1)  *NOBODY* avoids taxes
> 
> 2)  According to the Chief Actuary of the Socialist Security Administration, about 75 percent of all undocumented foreigners get an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number and pay the same taxes you do
> 
> 3)  The income tax is a plank out of the Communist Manifesto and was, supposedly, a _voluntary_ tax when it started out.  It is interesting that you are promoting an illegal tax that was taken from the pages of the Communist Manifesto
> 
> 4)  Foreign labor is here because times are good and a lot of the American citizenry that is not working don't want to work.  *Nobody* is fooling anyone here.  America has more people in prison than any nation on this planet.  All that B.S. from the right about the National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify and background checks has helped locked many Americans out of the system.
> 
> Many people are living in mommy's house, NOT PAYING THE INCOME TAX, and preferring mommy's free rent, the taxpayer giving them upwards of $200 a month for food on a debit card, and occasional drugs they sell for a friend to pay for their own pot habit.
> 
> 5)  The federal government has NO de jure / lawful / constitutional *authority* to tell me who I can and cannot hire.
Click to expand...

Equal protection of the law for unemployment compensation is better. Labor should be able to quit and collect unemployment compensation.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> Fallacy and chicken and egg situation. They are hiring them because libs supply them in an unending stream. I know an employer that would call Immigration and say they discovered some in their employ, fire the whole lot and hire new ones to stay on good side of govt. Made it look like they took the law serious. I would also ask how many illegals are self employed and pay zero taxes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1)  *NOBODY* avoids taxes
> 
> 2)  According to the Chief Actuary of the Socialist Security Administration, about 75 percent of all undocumented foreigners get an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number and pay the same taxes you do
> 
> 3)  The income tax is a plank out of the Communist Manifesto and was, supposedly, a _voluntary_ tax when it started out.  It is interesting that you are promoting an illegal tax that was taken from the pages of the Communist Manifesto
> 
> 4)  Foreign labor is here because times are good and a lot of the American citizenry that is not working don't want to work.  *Nobody* is fooling anyone here.  America has more people in prison than any nation on this planet.  All that B.S. from the right about the National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify and background checks has helped locked many Americans out of the system.
> 
> Many people are living in mommy's house, NOT PAYING THE INCOME TAX, and preferring mommy's free rent, the taxpayer giving them upwards of $200 a month for food on a debit card, and occasional drugs they sell for a friend to pay for their own pot habit.
> 
> 5)  The federal government has NO de jure / lawful / constitutional *authority* to tell me who I can and cannot hire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Equal protection of the law for unemployment compensation is better. Labor should be able to quit and collect unemployment compensation.
Click to expand...


I will wait and see if that evokes any response from anyone else before I even try to draw a conclusion there.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Wry Catcher said:


> Walt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sealybobo, I agree that the repubs, do not help the situation at all with their hiring of illegals. However I also see that the majority, if not all, mayors of sanctuary cities are dems { I cannot think of a mayor who is a repub doing this}. Also dems also own business and hire illegals. So what we get is a bunch of bloviating rhetoric from both sides while the problem continues. All I can think of when it comes to our politicans "talking" about solving problems is Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles pounding his desk saying "we have to protect our phoney baloney jobs gentelmen". Alot of talk, while things continue to deteroriate and nothing really worth while gets accomplished. IMHO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Mayors, City Counsels and houses of worship in Sanctuary Cities are protecting families who have been in the US for decades, from the outrageous anti-humanitarian policies of trump.  They do not protect rapists, murderers and other assorted felons be they citizens or not.
> 
> Ask yourself why business and industry have not been fined, and the CEO's and HR Managers are not arrested, detained and when convicted be  imprisoned for fraud, and be required to personally pay restitution to SS and Medicare.
Click to expand...



I keep pointing one thing out and it amazes me that the left is more oblivious to this than the right is:

The Chief Actuary of the Socialist Security Administration claims that about 75 percent of all undocumented foreigners pay the income tax using an_ Individual Taxpayer Identification Number.  _I'm beginning to think that more liberals know WHY the Ds and the Rs played musical chairs on the immigration issue and today the right sounds like Bill Clinton.


----------



## Manonthestreet

2) According to the Chief Actuary of the Socialist Security Administration, about 75 percent of all undocumented foreigners get an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number and pay the same taxes you do
You just contradicted yourself and I doubt that people that dont want to found are suddenly able to be quantified but the number fluctuates by millions lending little credence to your post


----------



## Wry Catcher

Porter Rockwell said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Walt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sealybobo, I agree that the repubs, do not help the situation at all with their hiring of illegals. However I also see that the majority, if not all, mayors of sanctuary cities are dems { I cannot think of a mayor who is a repub doing this}. Also dems also own business and hire illegals. So what we get is a bunch of bloviating rhetoric from both sides while the problem continues. All I can think of when it comes to our politicans "talking" about solving problems is Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles pounding his desk saying "we have to protect our phoney baloney jobs gentelmen". Alot of talk, while things continue to deteroriate and nothing really worth while gets accomplished. IMHO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Mayors, City Counsels and houses of worship in Sanctuary Cities are protecting families who have been in the US for decades, from the outrageous anti-humanitarian policies of trump.  They do not protect rapists, murderers and other assorted felons be they citizens or not.
> 
> Ask yourself why business and industry have not been fined, and the CEO's and HR Managers are not arrested, detained and when convicted be  imprisoned for fraud, and be required to personally pay restitution to SS and Medicare.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I keep pointing one thing out and it amazes me that the left is more oblivious to this than the right is:
> 
> The Chief Actuary of the Socialist Security Administration claims that about 75 percent of all undocumented foreigners pay the income tax using an_ Individual Taxpayer Identification Number.  _I'm beginning to think that more liberals know WHY the Ds and the Rs played musical chairs on the immigration issue and today the right sounds like Bill Clinton.
Click to expand...


Please elaborate, and leave out the Socialist Security Administration if you want to be considered credible.  

SS and Medicare are here to stay, they are not in any way a Ponzi Scheme (a form of fraud in which belief in the success of a nonexistent enterprise is fostered by the payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors) or Socialism.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> Fallacy and chicken and egg situation. They are hiring them because libs supply them in an unending stream. I know an employer that would call Immigration and say they discovered some in their employ, fire the whole lot and hire new ones to stay on good side of govt. Made it look like they took the law serious. I would also ask how many illegals are self employed and pay zero taxes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1)  *NOBODY* avoids taxes
> 
> 2)  According to the Chief Actuary of the Socialist Security Administration, about 75 percent of all undocumented foreigners get an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number and pay the same taxes you do
> 
> 3)  The income tax is a plank out of the Communist Manifesto and was, supposedly, a _voluntary_ tax when it started out.  It is interesting that you are promoting an illegal tax that was taken from the pages of the Communist Manifesto
> 
> 4)  Foreign labor is here because times are good and a lot of the American citizenry that is not working don't want to work.  *Nobody* is fooling anyone here.  America has more people in prison than any nation on this planet.  All that B.S. from the right about the National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify and background checks has helped locked many Americans out of the system.
> 
> Many people are living in mommy's house, NOT PAYING THE INCOME TAX, and preferring mommy's free rent, the taxpayer giving them upwards of $200 a month for food on a debit card, and occasional drugs they sell for a friend to pay for their own pot habit.
> 
> 5)  The federal government has NO de jure / lawful / constitutional *authority* to tell me who I can and cannot hire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Equal protection of the law for unemployment compensation is better. Labor should be able to quit and collect unemployment compensation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I will wait and see if that evokes any response from anyone else before I even try to draw a conclusion there.
Click to expand...

Don't believe in equal protection of the law for the Poor, only the Rich?


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Wry Catcher said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Walt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sealybobo, I agree that the repubs, do not help the situation at all with their hiring of illegals. However I also see that the majority, if not all, mayors of sanctuary cities are dems { I cannot think of a mayor who is a repub doing this}. Also dems also own business and hire illegals. So what we get is a bunch of bloviating rhetoric from both sides while the problem continues. All I can think of when it comes to our politicans "talking" about solving problems is Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles pounding his desk saying "we have to protect our phoney baloney jobs gentelmen". Alot of talk, while things continue to deteroriate and nothing really worth while gets accomplished. IMHO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Mayors, City Counsels and houses of worship in Sanctuary Cities are protecting families who have been in the US for decades, from the outrageous anti-humanitarian policies of trump.  They do not protect rapists, murderers and other assorted felons be they citizens or not.
> 
> Ask yourself why business and industry have not been fined, and the CEO's and HR Managers are not arrested, detained and when convicted be  imprisoned for fraud, and be required to personally pay restitution to SS and Medicare.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I keep pointing one thing out and it amazes me that the left is more oblivious to this than the right is:
> 
> The Chief Actuary of the Socialist Security Administration claims that about 75 percent of all undocumented foreigners pay the income tax using an_ Individual Taxpayer Identification Number.  _I'm beginning to think that more liberals know WHY the Ds and the Rs played musical chairs on the immigration issue and today the right sounds like Bill Clinton.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please elaborate, and leave out the Socialist Security Administration if you want to be considered credible.
> 
> SS and Medicare are here to stay, they are not in any way a Ponzi Scheme (a form of fraud in which belief in the success of a nonexistent enterprise is fostered by the payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors) or Socialism.
Click to expand...


Let me see.  You want me to leave out the one man who knows more than anyone on this planet as to who does and does not pay the income tax in order to remain "_credible_?"  Are you shitting me?

The federal income tax is unconstitutional.  Had the anti-immigrant lobby not got involved in the immigration con game after the left flipped them, the IRS and the income tax would be off the table.  

You got played and want me to not cite the most authoritative sources?  If you were hungry and asked me to alleviate your hunger, I'd have to feed you because only God can provide you manna from Heaven.  Without citing those who know jackshit, I'm not sure what you think I should say.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> Fallacy and chicken and egg situation. They are hiring them because libs supply them in an unending stream. I know an employer that would call Immigration and say they discovered some in their employ, fire the whole lot and hire new ones to stay on good side of govt. Made it look like they took the law serious. I would also ask how many illegals are self employed and pay zero taxes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1)  *NOBODY* avoids taxes
> 
> 2)  According to the Chief Actuary of the Socialist Security Administration, about 75 percent of all undocumented foreigners get an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number and pay the same taxes you do
> 
> 3)  The income tax is a plank out of the Communist Manifesto and was, supposedly, a _voluntary_ tax when it started out.  It is interesting that you are promoting an illegal tax that was taken from the pages of the Communist Manifesto
> 
> 4)  Foreign labor is here because times are good and a lot of the American citizenry that is not working don't want to work.  *Nobody* is fooling anyone here.  America has more people in prison than any nation on this planet.  All that B.S. from the right about the National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify and background checks has helped locked many Americans out of the system.
> 
> Many people are living in mommy's house, NOT PAYING THE INCOME TAX, and preferring mommy's free rent, the taxpayer giving them upwards of $200 a month for food on a debit card, and occasional drugs they sell for a friend to pay for their own pot habit.
> 
> 5)  The federal government has NO de jure / lawful / constitutional *authority* to tell me who I can and cannot hire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Equal protection of the law for unemployment compensation is better. Labor should be able to quit and collect unemployment compensation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I will wait and see if that evokes any response from anyone else before I even try to draw a conclusion there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't believe in equal protection of the law for the Poor, only the Rich?
Click to expand...


WTF are you babbling about?  Equal protection means just that.

You need to get the Hell away from your computer and go out into the real world today.  I'll ignore your posts for the rest of the day just to inspire you.  That way you won't be trying to piss people off by accusing them of shit out of the blue.  Get out dannyboy.  Walk around.  Visit some stores; take a stroll in the woods.  Get away from the keyboard.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Porter Rockwell said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Walt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sealybobo, I agree that the repubs, do not help the situation at all with their hiring of illegals. However I also see that the majority, if not all, mayors of sanctuary cities are dems { I cannot think of a mayor who is a repub doing this}. Also dems also own business and hire illegals. So what we get is a bunch of bloviating rhetoric from both sides while the problem continues. All I can think of when it comes to our politicans "talking" about solving problems is Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles pounding his desk saying "we have to protect our phoney baloney jobs gentelmen". Alot of talk, while things continue to deteroriate and nothing really worth while gets accomplished. IMHO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Mayors, City Counsels and houses of worship in Sanctuary Cities are protecting families who have been in the US for decades, from the outrageous anti-humanitarian policies of trump.  They do not protect rapists, murderers and other assorted felons be they citizens or not.
> 
> Ask yourself why business and industry have not been fined, and the CEO's and HR Managers are not arrested, detained and when convicted be  imprisoned for fraud, and be required to personally pay restitution to SS and Medicare.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I keep pointing one thing out and it amazes me that the left is more oblivious to this than the right is:
> 
> The Chief Actuary of the Socialist Security Administration claims that about 75 percent of all undocumented foreigners pay the income tax using an_ Individual Taxpayer Identification Number.  _I'm beginning to think that more liberals know WHY the Ds and the Rs played musical chairs on the immigration issue and today the right sounds like Bill Clinton.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please elaborate, and leave out the Socialist Security Administration if you want to be considered credible.
> 
> SS and Medicare are here to stay, they are not in any way a Ponzi Scheme (a form of fraud in which belief in the success of a nonexistent enterprise is fostered by the payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors) or Socialism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me see.  You want me to leave out the one man who knows more than anyone on this planet as to who does and does not pay the income tax in order to remain "_credible_?"  Are you shitting me?
> 
> The federal income tax is unconstitutional.  Had the anti-immigrant lobby not got involved in the immigration con game after the left flipped them, the IRS and the income tax would be off the table.
> 
> You got played and want me to not cite the most authoritative sources?  If you were hungry and asked me to alleviate your hunger, I'd have to feed you because only God can provide you manna from Heaven.  Without citing those who know jackshit, I'm not sure what you think I should say.
Click to expand...


You could start by having someone you trust edit your comments. 

P1:  We know who pays the most and who doesn't, since the Federal Income Tax was designed in order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice and insure domestic Tranquility.   

P2:  The Federal Income Tax is legal.  The rest is word salad, have your friend assist you in making whatever point you have understandable - if possible.

P3:  A rant, no substance and not thoughtful or thought provoking.  I don't believe I've been played, and if possible I'd like you to make sense.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Wry Catcher said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Walt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sealybobo, I agree that the repubs, do not help the situation at all with their hiring of illegals. However I also see that the majority, if not all, mayors of sanctuary cities are dems { I cannot think of a mayor who is a repub doing this}. Also dems also own business and hire illegals. So what we get is a bunch of bloviating rhetoric from both sides while the problem continues. All I can think of when it comes to our politicans "talking" about solving problems is Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles pounding his desk saying "we have to protect our phoney baloney jobs gentelmen". Alot of talk, while things continue to deteroriate and nothing really worth while gets accomplished. IMHO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Mayors, City Counsels and houses of worship in Sanctuary Cities are protecting families who have been in the US for decades, from the outrageous anti-humanitarian policies of trump.  They do not protect rapists, murderers and other assorted felons be they citizens or not.
> 
> Ask yourself why business and industry have not been fined, and the CEO's and HR Managers are not arrested, detained and when convicted be  imprisoned for fraud, and be required to personally pay restitution to SS and Medicare.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I keep pointing one thing out and it amazes me that the left is more oblivious to this than the right is:
> 
> The Chief Actuary of the Socialist Security Administration claims that about 75 percent of all undocumented foreigners pay the income tax using an_ Individual Taxpayer Identification Number.  _I'm beginning to think that more liberals know WHY the Ds and the Rs played musical chairs on the immigration issue and today the right sounds like Bill Clinton.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please elaborate, and leave out the Socialist Security Administration if you want to be considered credible.
> 
> SS and Medicare are here to stay, they are not in any way a Ponzi Scheme (a form of fraud in which belief in the success of a nonexistent enterprise is fostered by the payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors) or Socialism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me see.  You want me to leave out the one man who knows more than anyone on this planet as to who does and does not pay the income tax in order to remain "_credible_?"  Are you shitting me?
> 
> The federal income tax is unconstitutional.  Had the anti-immigrant lobby not got involved in the immigration con game after the left flipped them, the IRS and the income tax would be off the table.
> 
> You got played and want me to not cite the most authoritative sources?  If you were hungry and asked me to alleviate your hunger, I'd have to feed you because only God can provide you manna from Heaven.  Without citing those who know jackshit, I'm not sure what you think I should say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You could start by having someone you trust edit your comments.
> 
> P1:  We know who pays the most and who doesn't, since the Federal Income Tax was designed in order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice and insure domestic Tranquility.
> 
> P2:  The Federal Income Tax is legal.  The rest is word salad, have your friend assist you in making whatever point you have understandable - if possible.
> 
> P3:  A rant, no substance and not thoughtful or thought provoking.  I don't believe I've been played, and if possible I'd like you to make sense.
Click to expand...


You are a coward when it comes to subjects of right and wrong.


You got all screwed up there with the Preamble of the Constitution versus the illegally ratified 16th Amendment.

If you have problems reading, most county governments can provide classes.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Porter Rockwell said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most Mayors, City Counsels and houses of worship in Sanctuary Cities are protecting families who have been in the US for decades, from the outrageous anti-humanitarian policies of trump.  They do not protect rapists, murderers and other assorted felons be they citizens or not.
> 
> Ask yourself why business and industry have not been fined, and the CEO's and HR Managers are not arrested, detained and when convicted be  imprisoned for fraud, and be required to personally pay restitution to SS and Medicare.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I keep pointing one thing out and it amazes me that the left is more oblivious to this than the right is:
> 
> The Chief Actuary of the Socialist Security Administration claims that about 75 percent of all undocumented foreigners pay the income tax using an_ Individual Taxpayer Identification Number.  _I'm beginning to think that more liberals know WHY the Ds and the Rs played musical chairs on the immigration issue and today the right sounds like Bill Clinton.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please elaborate, and leave out the Socialist Security Administration if you want to be considered credible.
> 
> SS and Medicare are here to stay, they are not in any way a Ponzi Scheme (a form of fraud in which belief in the success of a nonexistent enterprise is fostered by the payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors) or Socialism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me see.  You want me to leave out the one man who knows more than anyone on this planet as to who does and does not pay the income tax in order to remain "_credible_?"  Are you shitting me?
> 
> The federal income tax is unconstitutional.  Had the anti-immigrant lobby not got involved in the immigration con game after the left flipped them, the IRS and the income tax would be off the table.
> 
> You got played and want me to not cite the most authoritative sources?  If you were hungry and asked me to alleviate your hunger, I'd have to feed you because only God can provide you manna from Heaven.  Without citing those who know jackshit, I'm not sure what you think I should say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You could start by having someone you trust edit your comments.
> 
> P1:  We know who pays the most and who doesn't, since the Federal Income Tax was designed in order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice and insure domestic Tranquility.
> 
> P2:  The Federal Income Tax is legal.  The rest is word salad, have your friend assist you in making whatever point you have understandable - if possible.
> 
> P3:  A rant, no substance and not thoughtful or thought provoking.  I don't believe I've been played, and if possible I'd like you to make sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are a coward when it comes to subjects of right and wrong.
> 
> 
> You got all screwed up there with the Preamble of the Constitution versus the illegally ratified 16th Amendment.
> 
> If you have problems reading, most county governments can provide classes.
Click to expand...


LOL, an ad hominem without substance seems to be your genre.  For someone 63 years old you seem to me to be quite immature.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Wry Catcher said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I keep pointing one thing out and it amazes me that the left is more oblivious to this than the right is:
> 
> The Chief Actuary of the Socialist Security Administration claims that about 75 percent of all undocumented foreigners pay the income tax using an_ Individual Taxpayer Identification Number.  _I'm beginning to think that more liberals know WHY the Ds and the Rs played musical chairs on the immigration issue and today the right sounds like Bill Clinton.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please elaborate, and leave out the Socialist Security Administration if you want to be considered credible.
> 
> SS and Medicare are here to stay, they are not in any way a Ponzi Scheme (a form of fraud in which belief in the success of a nonexistent enterprise is fostered by the payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors) or Socialism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me see.  You want me to leave out the one man who knows more than anyone on this planet as to who does and does not pay the income tax in order to remain "_credible_?"  Are you shitting me?
> 
> The federal income tax is unconstitutional.  Had the anti-immigrant lobby not got involved in the immigration con game after the left flipped them, the IRS and the income tax would be off the table.
> 
> You got played and want me to not cite the most authoritative sources?  If you were hungry and asked me to alleviate your hunger, I'd have to feed you because only God can provide you manna from Heaven.  Without citing those who know jackshit, I'm not sure what you think I should say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You could start by having someone you trust edit your comments.
> 
> P1:  We know who pays the most and who doesn't, since the Federal Income Tax was designed in order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice and insure domestic Tranquility.
> 
> P2:  The Federal Income Tax is legal.  The rest is word salad, have your friend assist you in making whatever point you have understandable - if possible.
> 
> P3:  A rant, no substance and not thoughtful or thought provoking.  I don't believe I've been played, and if possible I'd like you to make sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are a coward when it comes to subjects of right and wrong.
> 
> 
> You got all screwed up there with the Preamble of the Constitution versus the illegally ratified 16th Amendment.
> 
> If you have problems reading, most county governments can provide classes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL, an ad hominem without substance seems to be your genre.  For someone 63 years old you seem to me to be quite immature.
Click to expand...


For someone to be such a condescending prick like you, you ARE immature.  You don't just seem to be, but ARE.  Furthermore, if you want to insult people you should look up words in a dictionary *before *you use them.  If you're too fucking stupid to hold a civil conversation, you shouldn't even be IN one.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Porter Rockwell said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please elaborate, and leave out the Socialist Security Administration if you want to be considered credible.
> 
> SS and Medicare are here to stay, they are not in any way a Ponzi Scheme (a form of fraud in which belief in the success of a nonexistent enterprise is fostered by the payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors) or Socialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me see.  You want me to leave out the one man who knows more than anyone on this planet as to who does and does not pay the income tax in order to remain "_credible_?"  Are you shitting me?
> 
> The federal income tax is unconstitutional.  Had the anti-immigrant lobby not got involved in the immigration con game after the left flipped them, the IRS and the income tax would be off the table.
> 
> You got played and want me to not cite the most authoritative sources?  If you were hungry and asked me to alleviate your hunger, I'd have to feed you because only God can provide you manna from Heaven.  Without citing those who know jackshit, I'm not sure what you think I should say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You could start by having someone you trust edit your comments.
> 
> P1:  We know who pays the most and who doesn't, since the Federal Income Tax was designed in order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice and insure domestic Tranquility.
> 
> P2:  The Federal Income Tax is legal.  The rest is word salad, have your friend assist you in making whatever point you have understandable - if possible.
> 
> P3:  A rant, no substance and not thoughtful or thought provoking.  I don't believe I've been played, and if possible I'd like you to make sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are a coward when it comes to subjects of right and wrong.
> 
> 
> You got all screwed up there with the Preamble of the Constitution versus the illegally ratified 16th Amendment.
> 
> If you have problems reading, most county governments can provide classes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL, an ad hominem without substance seems to be your genre.  For someone 63 years old you seem to me to be quite immature.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For someone to be such a condescending prick like you, you ARE immature.  You don't just seem to be, but ARE.  Furthermore, if you want to insult people you should look up words in a dictionary *before *you use them.  If you're too fucking stupid to hold a civil conversation, you shouldn't even be IN one.
Click to expand...


Seems this "condescending prick's" last comment was not, and not meant to be patronizing.  It is you who needs a lexicon.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Wry Catcher said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me see.  You want me to leave out the one man who knows more than anyone on this planet as to who does and does not pay the income tax in order to remain "_credible_?"  Are you shitting me?
> 
> The federal income tax is unconstitutional.  Had the anti-immigrant lobby not got involved in the immigration con game after the left flipped them, the IRS and the income tax would be off the table.
> 
> You got played and want me to not cite the most authoritative sources?  If you were hungry and asked me to alleviate your hunger, I'd have to feed you because only God can provide you manna from Heaven.  Without citing those who know jackshit, I'm not sure what you think I should say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You could start by having someone you trust edit your comments.
> 
> P1:  We know who pays the most and who doesn't, since the Federal Income Tax was designed in order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice and insure domestic Tranquility.
> 
> P2:  The Federal Income Tax is legal.  The rest is word salad, have your friend assist you in making whatever point you have understandable - if possible.
> 
> P3:  A rant, no substance and not thoughtful or thought provoking.  I don't believe I've been played, and if possible I'd like you to make sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are a coward when it comes to subjects of right and wrong.
> 
> 
> You got all screwed up there with the Preamble of the Constitution versus the illegally ratified 16th Amendment.
> 
> If you have problems reading, most county governments can provide classes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL, an ad hominem without substance seems to be your genre.  For someone 63 years old you seem to me to be quite immature.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For someone to be such a condescending prick like you, you ARE immature.  You don't just seem to be, but ARE.  Furthermore, if you want to insult people you should look up words in a dictionary *before *you use them.  If you're too fucking stupid to hold a civil conversation, you shouldn't even be IN one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seems this "condescending prick's" last comment was not, and not meant to be patronizing.  It is you who needs a lexicon.
Click to expand...


And yet you excel at trying to be condescending.  You're just not as smart as you pretend.  If you have to be an asshole to make your point you didn't have one.  To keep pursuing the point illustrates that you have emotional issues beyond my pay grade.

So, if you have something related to the OP, post it.  If you want to say something to me personally, feel free to use PM.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Porter Rockwell said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> You could start by having someone you trust edit your comments.
> 
> P1:  We know who pays the most and who doesn't, since the Federal Income Tax was designed in order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice and insure domestic Tranquility.
> 
> P2:  The Federal Income Tax is legal.  The rest is word salad, have your friend assist you in making whatever point you have understandable - if possible.
> 
> P3:  A rant, no substance and not thoughtful or thought provoking.  I don't believe I've been played, and if possible I'd like you to make sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are a coward when it comes to subjects of right and wrong.
> 
> 
> You got all screwed up there with the Preamble of the Constitution versus the illegally ratified 16th Amendment.
> 
> If you have problems reading, most county governments can provide classes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL, an ad hominem without substance seems to be your genre.  For someone 63 years old you seem to me to be quite immature.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For someone to be such a condescending prick like you, you ARE immature.  You don't just seem to be, but ARE.  Furthermore, if you want to insult people you should look up words in a dictionary *before *you use them.  If you're too fucking stupid to hold a civil conversation, you shouldn't even be IN one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seems this "condescending prick's" last comment was not, and not meant to be patronizing.  It is you who needs a lexicon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet you excel at trying to be condescending.  You're just not as smart as you pretend.  If you have to be an asshole to make your point you didn't have one.  To keep pursuing the point illustrates that you have emotional issues beyond my pay grade.
> 
> So, if you have something related to the OP, post it.  If you want to say something to me personally, feel free to use PM.
Click to expand...


I used the funny button which I disdain, but did express my reaction to your  (Porter Rockwell's) hypocrisy and emotional outburst.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fallacy and chicken and egg situation. They are hiring them because libs supply them in an unending stream. I know an employer that would call Immigration and say they discovered some in their employ, fire the whole lot and hire new ones to stay on good side of govt. Made it look like they took the law serious. I would also ask how many illegals are self employed and pay zero taxes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1)  *NOBODY* avoids taxes
> 
> 2)  According to the Chief Actuary of the Socialist Security Administration, about 75 percent of all undocumented foreigners get an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number and pay the same taxes you do
> 
> 3)  The income tax is a plank out of the Communist Manifesto and was, supposedly, a _voluntary_ tax when it started out.  It is interesting that you are promoting an illegal tax that was taken from the pages of the Communist Manifesto
> 
> 4)  Foreign labor is here because times are good and a lot of the American citizenry that is not working don't want to work.  *Nobody* is fooling anyone here.  America has more people in prison than any nation on this planet.  All that B.S. from the right about the National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify and background checks has helped locked many Americans out of the system.
> 
> Many people are living in mommy's house, NOT PAYING THE INCOME TAX, and preferring mommy's free rent, the taxpayer giving them upwards of $200 a month for food on a debit card, and occasional drugs they sell for a friend to pay for their own pot habit.
> 
> 5)  The federal government has NO de jure / lawful / constitutional *authority* to tell me who I can and cannot hire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Equal protection of the law for unemployment compensation is better. Labor should be able to quit and collect unemployment compensation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I will wait and see if that evokes any response from anyone else before I even try to draw a conclusion there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't believe in equal protection of the law for the Poor, only the Rich?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF are you babbling about?  Equal protection means just that.
> 
> You need to get the Hell away from your computer and go out into the real world today.  I'll ignore your posts for the rest of the day just to inspire you.  That way you won't be trying to piss people off by accusing them of shit out of the blue.  Get out dannyboy.  Walk around.  Visit some stores; take a stroll in the woods.  Get away from the keyboard.
Click to expand...

I am not the one with nothing but appeals to ignorance. 

Equal protection of the law for unemployment compensation is better. Labor should be able to quit and collect unemployment compensation.


----------



## hadit

Wolfmoon said:


> What about making the American employers obey the local, state and federal laws already on the books. Americans should report any employer hiring illegal aliens. If the employers can't make a living without lying, cheating and breaking the laws. Maybe, the employer shouldn't be in business in the first place and the employer should go get a job!
> 
> 
> 
> Excerpt:
> 
> Sec. 274A. [8 U.S.C. 1324a]
> 
> (a) Making Employment of Unauthorized Aliens Unlawful.-
> (1) In general.-It is unlawful for a person or other entity-
> (A) to hire, or to recruit or refer for a fee, for employment in the United States an alien
> knowing the alien is an unauthorized alien (as defined in subsection (h)(3)) with respect to such
> employment, or
> 
> .ExternalClass DIV{;}
> *[PDF] http://www.uscis.gov/propub/DocView/slbid/1/2/111?hilite=*
> 
> 
> *124k - Adobe PDF - View as html*
> *... Employment of Unauthorized Aliens ... is unlawful for a person or other entity, after hiring an alien for ... 274A - UNLAWFUL *


At the same time, governors and mayors need to be forced to obey federal law.  No more sanctuary cities or states.


----------



## MaryL

sealybobo said:


> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"


That's the core issue here. But back in the day,  the people that employed illegals would sometimes argue their cause on chat boards. And the single thing that drove them, seemed to be EVERYYONE does it and we know its wrong but it has become the status quo. This all came out of a WW2 program, project  Brazos that hired  Mexicans because of the nature  of the time and the  labor shortages, but now? Seems a little antiquated. And judging by the huge numbers of  American  jobless and dispossessed its become antithetical to the  vox populi. But who cares?


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> just my perception of the right wing.
> 
> i have no confidence in their sincerity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump won't go after illegal employers but he will waste taxpayer money putting migrants in prison just to score political points.
> 
> *Trump Administration Prosecutes Migrant Workers Arrested In Mississippi ICE Raid*
> Forty-one of the workers face criminal prosecution under immigration laws
> 
> Immigration officials rounded up some 680 unauthorized migrants working at the plants
> 
> You telling me the company didn't know 680 of their employees were unauthorized?  Impossible.
> 
> Critics like immigration lawyer David Leopold contend that ICE’s worksite investigations should focus on employers who exploit undocumented labor, rather than on workers.
> 
> One of the workers charged with felony reentry had been sent back to Mexico twice in 2006, after getting arrested both times at the border in Calexico, California. After finally making his way past the border, immigration officials arrested him during a 2008 worksite raid of Howard Industries in Laurel, Mississippi. At the time, it was the largest single-state worksite operation in ICE history, with 600 arrests.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but Mississippi doesn't have any sanctuary cities right?
> 
> Who should be going to jail?  The owner of Koch Industries and Howard Industries.  Are you trying to tell me Mr. Koch didn't hear about the raid on Howard Industries in 2008?
> 
> I read the entire article.  Not one mention of going after the illegal employer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> America is wasting money because we can and *DO* control the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  The anti-immigrants don't want to admit that walls and the forfeiture of Rights will not stop it.
> 
> Only the American people can stop the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  They have to change their culture and pursue the drug culture the way the left pursues anything they deem "_racist_."
> 
> You have to voluntarily boycott those who do business with foreigners and support American made and American owned businesses that have NO foreigners working for them.  The government cannot save you from yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've never seen a product labelled "Proudly Made by Illegal Labor".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess some folks need a boulder to fall on their head in order to get it.  Most undocumented workers in America are working in landscaping, fast food, retail, and other service industries.
> 
> If you know of a company with a high percentage of non-white workers, then you know it is what it is.
> 
> I don't know what _"illegal"_ labor is.  The federal government has *no* de jure / constitutional authority over who an employer hires as long as we still have a Right to own property. They may have the* power*, but they absolutely have *no authority*.  So, let me guess, you don't believe in the Rule of Law when the government infringes on private business to your benefit?
Click to expand...

I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes


----------



## MaryL

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trump won't go after illegal employers but he will waste taxpayer money putting migrants in prison just to score political points.
> 
> *Trump Administration Prosecutes Migrant Workers Arrested In Mississippi ICE Raid*
> Forty-one of the workers face criminal prosecution under immigration laws
> 
> Immigration officials rounded up some 680 unauthorized migrants working at the plants
> 
> You telling me the company didn't know 680 of their employees were unauthorized?  Impossible.
> 
> Critics like immigration lawyer David Leopold contend that ICE’s worksite investigations should focus on employers who exploit undocumented labor, rather than on workers.
> 
> One of the workers charged with felony reentry had been sent back to Mexico twice in 2006, after getting arrested both times at the border in Calexico, California. After finally making his way past the border, immigration officials arrested him during a 2008 worksite raid of Howard Industries in Laurel, Mississippi. At the time, it was the largest single-state worksite operation in ICE history, with 600 arrests.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but Mississippi doesn't have any sanctuary cities right?
> 
> Who should be going to jail?  The owner of Koch Industries and Howard Industries.  Are you trying to tell me Mr. Koch didn't hear about the raid on Howard Industries in 2008?
> 
> I read the entire article.  Not one mention of going after the illegal employer.
> 
> 
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> America is wasting money because we can and *DO* control the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  The anti-immigrants don't want to admit that walls and the forfeiture of Rights will not stop it.
> 
> Only the American people can stop the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  They have to change their culture and pursue the drug culture the way the left pursues anything they deem "_racist_."
> 
> You have to voluntarily boycott those who do business with foreigners and support American made and American owned businesses that have NO foreigners working for them.  The government cannot save you from yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've never seen a product labelled "Proudly Made by Illegal Labor".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess some folks need a boulder to fall on their head in order to get it.  Most undocumented workers in America are working in landscaping, fast food, retail, and other service industries.
> 
> If you know of a company with a high percentage of non-white workers, then you know it is what it is.
> 
> I don't know what _"illegal"_ labor is.  The federal government has *no* de jure / constitutional authority over who an employer hires as long as we still have a Right to own property. They may have the* power*, but they absolutely have *no authority*.  So, let me guess, you don't believe in the Rule of Law when the government infringes on private business to your benefit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
Click to expand...

If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.


----------



## sealybobo

MaryL said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America is wasting money because we can and *DO* control the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  The anti-immigrants don't want to admit that walls and the forfeiture of Rights will not stop it.
> 
> Only the American people can stop the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  They have to change their culture and pursue the drug culture the way the left pursues anything they deem "_racist_."
> 
> You have to voluntarily boycott those who do business with foreigners and support American made and American owned businesses that have NO foreigners working for them.  The government cannot save you from yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've never seen a product labelled "Proudly Made by Illegal Labor".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess some folks need a boulder to fall on their head in order to get it.  Most undocumented workers in America are working in landscaping, fast food, retail, and other service industries.
> 
> If you know of a company with a high percentage of non-white workers, then you know it is what it is.
> 
> I don't know what _"illegal"_ labor is.  The federal government has *no* de jure / constitutional authority over who an employer hires as long as we still have a Right to own property. They may have the* power*, but they absolutely have *no authority*.  So, let me guess, you don't believe in the Rule of Law when the government infringes on private business to your benefit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
Click to expand...

I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.

Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.

But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer


----------



## sealybobo

MaryL said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> That's the core issue here. But back in the day,  the people that employed illegals would sometimes argue their cause on chat boards. And the single thing that drove them, seemed to be EVERYYONE does it and we know its wrong but it has become the status quo. This all came out of a WW2 program, project  Brazos that hired  Mexicans because of the nature  of the time and the  labor shortages, but now? Seems a little antiquated. And judging by the huge numbers of  American  jobless and dispossessed its become antithetical to the  vox populi. But who cares?
Click to expand...

Well let’s be honest. Whoever’s here is here. Is it my job to check the guys papers if someone recommends him?

I just want the flow to stop and I want illegals to go home because companies are afraid to hire them.

I worked for a music school who wouldn’t hire my violin buddy because he didn’t have documents. He said it wasn’t worth him losing his business over hiring an illegal.

I wish all employers were like him,


----------



## danielpalos

hadit said:


> Wolfmoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about making the American employers obey the local, state and federal laws already on the books. Americans should report any employer hiring illegal aliens. If the employers can't make a living without lying, cheating and breaking the laws. Maybe, the employer shouldn't be in business in the first place and the employer should go get a job!
> 
> 
> 
> Excerpt:
> 
> Sec. 274A. [8 U.S.C. 1324a]
> 
> (a) Making Employment of Unauthorized Aliens Unlawful.-
> (1) In general.-It is unlawful for a person or other entity-
> (A) to hire, or to recruit or refer for a fee, for employment in the United States an alien
> knowing the alien is an unauthorized alien (as defined in subsection (h)(3)) with respect to such
> employment, or
> 
> .ExternalClass DIV{;}
> *[PDF] http://www.uscis.gov/propub/DocView/slbid/1/2/111?hilite=*
> 
> 
> *124k - Adobe PDF - View as html*
> *... Employment of Unauthorized Aliens ... is unlawful for a person or other entity, after hiring an alien for ... 274A - UNLAWFUL *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At the same time, governors and mayors need to be forced to obey federal law.  No more sanctuary cities or states.
Click to expand...

Our Constitution is more supreme.


----------



## danielpalos

MaryL said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> That's the core issue here. But back in the day,  the people that employed illegals would sometimes argue their cause on chat boards. And the single thing that drove them, seemed to be EVERYYONE does it and we know its wrong but it has become the status quo. This all came out of a WW2 program, project  Brazos that hired  Mexicans because of the nature  of the time and the  labor shortages, but now? Seems a little antiquated. And judging by the huge numbers of  American  jobless and dispossessed its become antithetical to the  vox populi. But who cares?
Click to expand...

i thought these were the Best of tax cut economics times?


----------



## sealybobo

danielpalos said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> That's the core issue here. But back in the day,  the people that employed illegals would sometimes argue their cause on chat boards. And the single thing that drove them, seemed to be EVERYYONE does it and we know its wrong but it has become the status quo. This all came out of a WW2 program, project  Brazos that hired  Mexicans because of the nature  of the time and the  labor shortages, but now? Seems a little antiquated. And judging by the huge numbers of  American  jobless and dispossessed its become antithetical to the  vox populi. But who cares?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i thought these were the Best of tax cut economics times?
Click to expand...

Wages should be skyrocketing but they aren’t.

They are for people who were already successful but blue collar is still stuck at $12 hr


----------



## Wry Catcher

hadit said:


> Wolfmoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about making the American employers obey the local, state and federal laws already on the books. Americans should report any employer hiring illegal aliens. If the employers can't make a living without lying, cheating and breaking the laws. Maybe, the employer shouldn't be in business in the first place and the employer should go get a job!
> 
> 
> 
> Excerpt:
> 
> Sec. 274A. [8 U.S.C. 1324a]
> 
> (a) Making Employment of Unauthorized Aliens Unlawful.-
> (1) In general.-It is unlawful for a person or other entity-
> (A) to hire, or to recruit or refer for a fee, for employment in the United States an alien
> knowing the alien is an unauthorized alien (as defined in subsection (h)(3)) with respect to such
> employment, or
> 
> .ExternalClass DIV{;}
> *[PDF] http://www.uscis.gov/propub/DocView/slbid/1/2/111?hilite=*
> 
> 
> *124k - Adobe PDF - View as html*
> *... Employment of Unauthorized Aliens ... is unlawful for a person or other entity, after hiring an alien for ... 274A - UNLAWFUL *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At the same time, governors and mayors need to be forced to obey federal law.  No more sanctuary cities or states.
Click to expand...


Let's consider what is the duty of a Governor, to enforce state law, not federal law.  That is up to the Federal Dept of Justice, and the agencies under the AG including ICE, the FBI, ATF&E, US Marshall's' and many more.


----------



## MaryL

I don't know which is worse:  legitimizing illegal aliens or bashing unemployed homeless Americans. It was never been like this before, kids. This is a new development. OK, nobody is above the law. What makes Hispanic illegal aliens above immigration law countless generations past followed? What makes Hispanic illegals so special? Just because they let themselves be exploited? The  rest of our forefathers followed immigration laws. Why can't Hispanics?


----------



## sealybobo

Wry Catcher said:


> hadit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wolfmoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about making the American employers obey the local, state and federal laws already on the books. Americans should report any employer hiring illegal aliens. If the employers can't make a living without lying, cheating and breaking the laws. Maybe, the employer shouldn't be in business in the first place and the employer should go get a job!
> 
> 
> 
> Excerpt:
> 
> Sec. 274A. [8 U.S.C. 1324a]
> 
> (a) Making Employment of Unauthorized Aliens Unlawful.-
> (1) In general.-It is unlawful for a person or other entity-
> (A) to hire, or to recruit or refer for a fee, for employment in the United States an alien
> knowing the alien is an unauthorized alien (as defined in subsection (h)(3)) with respect to such
> employment, or
> 
> .ExternalClass DIV{;}
> *[PDF] http://www.uscis.gov/propub/DocView/slbid/1/2/111?hilite=*
> 
> 
> *124k - Adobe PDF - View as html*
> *... Employment of Unauthorized Aliens ... is unlawful for a person or other entity, after hiring an alien for ... 274A - UNLAWFUL *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At the same time, governors and mayors need to be forced to obey federal law.  No more sanctuary cities or states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's consider what is the duty of a Governor, to enforce state law, not federal law.  That is up to the Federal Dept of Justice, and the agencies under the AG including ICE, the FBI, ATF&E, US Marshall's' and many more.
Click to expand...

So are red states like Mississippi and Iowa sanctuary states?

Mollie tibbets murderer worked for a republican owned farm in Iowa and this last big raid was in Mississippi


----------



## pknopp

MaryL said:


> I don't know which is worse:  legitimizing illegal aliens or bashing unemployed homeless Americans. It was never been like this before, kids. This is a new development. OK, nobody is above the law. What makes Hispanic illegal aliens above immigration law countless generations past followed? What makes Hispanic illegals so special? Just because they let themselves be exploited? The  rest of our forefathers followed immigration laws. Why can't Hispanics?



 If employers are above the law I'm good with the employees being above the law also.


----------



## sealybobo

MaryL said:


> I don't know which is worse:  legitimizing illegal aliens or bashing unemployed homeless Americans. It was never been like this before, kids. This is a new development. OK, nobody is above the law. What makes Hispanic illegal aliens above immigration law countless generations past followed? What makes Hispanic illegals so special? Just because they let themselves be exploited? The  rest of our forefathers followed immigration laws. Why can't Hispanics?


My one grandfather didn’t. Then he married my grandmother who was an American citizen


----------



## sealybobo

pknopp said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know which is worse:  legitimizing illegal aliens or bashing unemployed homeless Americans. It was never been like this before, kids. This is a new development. OK, nobody is above the law. What makes Hispanic illegal aliens above immigration law countless generations past followed? What makes Hispanic illegals so special? Just because they let themselves be exploited? The  rest of our forefathers followed immigration laws. Why can't Hispanics?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If employers are above the law I'm good with the employees being above the law also.
Click to expand...

Otherwise you’re just playing wack a mole


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> America is wasting money because we can and *DO* control the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  The anti-immigrants don't want to admit that walls and the forfeiture of Rights will not stop it.
> 
> Only the American people can stop the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  They have to change their culture and pursue the drug culture the way the left pursues anything they deem "_racist_."
> 
> You have to voluntarily boycott those who do business with foreigners and support American made and American owned businesses that have NO foreigners working for them.  The government cannot save you from yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never seen a product labelled "Proudly Made by Illegal Labor".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess some folks need a boulder to fall on their head in order to get it.  Most undocumented workers in America are working in landscaping, fast food, retail, and other service industries.
> 
> If you know of a company with a high percentage of non-white workers, then you know it is what it is.
> 
> I don't know what _"illegal"_ labor is.  The federal government has *no* de jure / constitutional authority over who an employer hires as long as we still have a Right to own property. They may have the* power*, but they absolutely have *no authority*.  So, let me guess, you don't believe in the Rule of Law when the government infringes on private business to your benefit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
Click to expand...


An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never seen a product labelled "Proudly Made by Illegal Labor".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess some folks need a boulder to fall on their head in order to get it.  Most undocumented workers in America are working in landscaping, fast food, retail, and other service industries.
> 
> If you know of a company with a high percentage of non-white workers, then you know it is what it is.
> 
> I don't know what _"illegal"_ labor is.  The federal government has *no* de jure / constitutional authority over who an employer hires as long as we still have a Right to own property. They may have the* power*, but they absolutely have *no authority*.  So, let me guess, you don't believe in the Rule of Law when the government infringes on private business to your benefit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
Click to expand...

Sorry but that’s the best title and I’m sticking with it.

We need to realize it’s not an illegal immigrant problem it’s an illegal employer problem.

Just like we don’t have a cocaine user problem. We need to go after the manufacturers.

It’s like going after hungry people who go to Walmart but you don’t go after the waltons.


----------



## sealybobo

pknopp said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know which is worse:  legitimizing illegal aliens or bashing unemployed homeless Americans. It was never been like this before, kids. This is a new development. OK, nobody is above the law. What makes Hispanic illegal aliens above immigration law countless generations past followed? What makes Hispanic illegals so special? Just because they let themselves be exploited? The  rest of our forefathers followed immigration laws. Why can't Hispanics?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If employers are above the law I'm good with the employees being above the law also.
Click to expand...

It’s like going after johns but doing nothing to the women who sell their bodies. As long as women are selling guys are buying. And as long as American employers pay illegals $10 under the table I don’t blame Mexicans for coming


----------



## sealybobo

Illegal employers love the power they have over their illegal. They wish they could be that way with Americans but we know our rights


----------



## hadit

Wry Catcher said:


> hadit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wolfmoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about making the American employers obey the local, state and federal laws already on the books. Americans should report any employer hiring illegal aliens. If the employers can't make a living without lying, cheating and breaking the laws. Maybe, the employer shouldn't be in business in the first place and the employer should go get a job!
> 
> 
> 
> Excerpt:
> 
> Sec. 274A. [8 U.S.C. 1324a]
> 
> (a) Making Employment of Unauthorized Aliens Unlawful.-
> (1) In general.-It is unlawful for a person or other entity-
> (A) to hire, or to recruit or refer for a fee, for employment in the United States an alien
> knowing the alien is an unauthorized alien (as defined in subsection (h)(3)) with respect to such
> employment, or
> 
> .ExternalClass DIV{;}
> *[PDF] http://www.uscis.gov/propub/DocView/slbid/1/2/111?hilite=*
> 
> 
> *124k - Adobe PDF - View as html*
> *... Employment of Unauthorized Aliens ... is unlawful for a person or other entity, after hiring an alien for ... 274A - UNLAWFUL *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At the same time, governors and mayors need to be forced to obey federal law.  No more sanctuary cities or states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's consider what is the duty of a Governor, to enforce state law, not federal law.  That is up to the Federal Dept of Justice, and the agencies under the AG including ICE, the FBI, ATF&E, US Marshall's' and many more.
Click to expand...


When federal law trumps state law, governers have to obey them. Think of it this way, if governors can safely ignore federal immigration law, why shouldn't they be able to ignore federal abortion law? Or environmental law?


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never seen a product labelled "Proudly Made by Illegal Labor".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess some folks need a boulder to fall on their head in order to get it.  Most undocumented workers in America are working in landscaping, fast food, retail, and other service industries.
> 
> If you know of a company with a high percentage of non-white workers, then you know it is what it is.
> 
> I don't know what _"illegal"_ labor is.  The federal government has *no* de jure / constitutional authority over who an employer hires as long as we still have a Right to own property. They may have the* power*, but they absolutely have *no authority*.  So, let me guess, you don't believe in the Rule of Law when the government infringes on private business to your benefit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
Click to expand...

And then you guys rape and abuse your illegals because they don’t have rights but you’re doing nothing wrong? You’re nuts.


----------



## pknopp

hadit said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hadit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wolfmoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about making the American employers obey the local, state and federal laws already on the books. Americans should report any employer hiring illegal aliens. If the employers can't make a living without lying, cheating and breaking the laws. Maybe, the employer shouldn't be in business in the first place and the employer should go get a job!
> 
> 
> 
> Excerpt:
> 
> Sec. 274A. [8 U.S.C. 1324a]
> 
> (a) Making Employment of Unauthorized Aliens Unlawful.-
> (1) In general.-It is unlawful for a person or other entity-
> (A) to hire, or to recruit or refer for a fee, for employment in the United States an alien
> knowing the alien is an unauthorized alien (as defined in subsection (h)(3)) with respect to such
> employment, or
> 
> .ExternalClass DIV{;}
> *[PDF] http://www.uscis.gov/propub/DocView/slbid/1/2/111?hilite=*
> 
> 
> *124k - Adobe PDF - View as html*
> *... Employment of Unauthorized Aliens ... is unlawful for a person or other entity, after hiring an alien for ... 274A - UNLAWFUL *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At the same time, governors and mayors need to be forced to obey federal law.  No more sanctuary cities or states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's consider what is the duty of a Governor, to enforce state law, not federal law.  That is up to the Federal Dept of Justice, and the agencies under the AG including ICE, the FBI, ATF&E, US Marshall's' and many more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When federal law trumps state law, governers have to obey them. Think of it this way, if governors can safely ignore federal immigration law, why shouldn't they be able to ignore federal abortion law? Or environmental law?
Click to expand...


 State officials can not enforce Federal immigration laws.


----------



## danielpalos

MaryL said:


> I don't know which is worse:  legitimizing illegal aliens or bashing unemployed homeless Americans. It was never been like this before, kids. This is a new development. OK, nobody is above the law. What makes Hispanic illegal aliens above immigration law countless generations past followed? What makes Hispanic illegals so special? Just because they let themselves be exploited? The  rest of our forefathers followed immigration laws. Why can't Hispanics?


Where do you get you propaganda and rhetoric from?  Ellis Island used to be open for y'all.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trump won't go after illegal employers but he will waste taxpayer money putting migrants in prison just to score political points.
> 
> *Trump Administration Prosecutes Migrant Workers Arrested In Mississippi ICE Raid*
> Forty-one of the workers face criminal prosecution under immigration laws
> 
> Immigration officials rounded up some 680 unauthorized migrants working at the plants
> 
> You telling me the company didn't know 680 of their employees were unauthorized?  Impossible.
> 
> Critics like immigration lawyer David Leopold contend that ICE’s worksite investigations should focus on employers who exploit undocumented labor, rather than on workers.
> 
> One of the workers charged with felony reentry had been sent back to Mexico twice in 2006, after getting arrested both times at the border in Calexico, California. After finally making his way past the border, immigration officials arrested him during a 2008 worksite raid of Howard Industries in Laurel, Mississippi. At the time, it was the largest single-state worksite operation in ICE history, with 600 arrests.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but Mississippi doesn't have any sanctuary cities right?
> 
> Who should be going to jail?  The owner of Koch Industries and Howard Industries.  Are you trying to tell me Mr. Koch didn't hear about the raid on Howard Industries in 2008?
> 
> I read the entire article.  Not one mention of going after the illegal employer.
> 
> 
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> America is wasting money because we can and *DO* control the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  The anti-immigrants don't want to admit that walls and the forfeiture of Rights will not stop it.
> 
> Only the American people can stop the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  They have to change their culture and pursue the drug culture the way the left pursues anything they deem "_racist_."
> 
> You have to voluntarily boycott those who do business with foreigners and support American made and American owned businesses that have NO foreigners working for them.  The government cannot save you from yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've never seen a product labelled "Proudly Made by Illegal Labor".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess some folks need a boulder to fall on their head in order to get it.  Most undocumented workers in America are working in landscaping, fast food, retail, and other service industries.
> 
> If you know of a company with a high percentage of non-white workers, then you know it is what it is.
> 
> I don't know what _"illegal"_ labor is.  The federal government has *no* de jure / constitutional authority over who an employer hires as long as we still have a Right to own property. They may have the* power*, but they absolutely have *no authority*.  So, let me guess, you don't believe in the Rule of Law when the government infringes on private business to your benefit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
Click to expand...

'
My brother has not paid income tax for 30 years that I can remember, so it's possibly been longer.  My father never paid them and when he died and willed his property off, everything went off without a hitch.

There are proven theories of law and unproven ones.  If someone tries to challenge the law and fails, you call him an idiot.  If he succeeds, then he's the good guy.  As Mark Twain once quipped:

"_In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot_."

The anti-immigrant lobby refuses to come to grips with what they're saying.  If an employer hires a foreigner, he should be punished???  For what?  If you don't rent / sell your home to a person you feel comfortable, you should go to jail?  WTH???  Have all the American people forgotten that one of the great hallmarks of our Republic is the ability to own property?

I sometimes offer gigs.  Sometimes they work into full time jobs.  I advertise.  If I have a job to do, I prefer to help American men out that have found themselves locked out of the job market for their past indiscretions.  That is_ "illegal"_ since I'm not supposed to discriminate.  If they don't apply; if they don't show up, then I hire who is available.  It's my job; I created it so I'll give it to who I damn well please.  I'm already doing my part to get sorry ass white people to get back into the workforce.

But those of you who waste every day on the Internet condemning me on the Internet are not mad at the mothers who allow their 20, 30 40 year old sons and older to live at home, rent free and draw out of the public dole just because they're lazy.  Then the government, insurance, and Big Pharma are keeping the posterity of the founders on drugs and unqualified to do even menial work.

It would be different *IF* those white people with their nose stuck up Trump's ass were actually looking for a job, would show up, and work.  They don't.  The subcontractors who think they're worth $985 an hour are delusional as well.  So, it comes down to some people losing their home or hiring the foreigner.  Patriotism is worth only so much when the kid next door is sitting on his ass all day on the computer - AND his mother even pays the Mexican kid down the road to cut the freaking grass.  Clean up your own culture.  Send me some folks that want to work.  That is why we started this ministry.... to HELP people.  If whites don't want the work, someone shouldn't lose their home because Uncle Scam is trying to enforce laws they have no *constitutional authority *to enforce in the first place.


----------



## MaryL

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never seen a product labelled "Proudly Made by Illegal Labor".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess some folks need a boulder to fall on their head in order to get it.  Most undocumented workers in America are working in landscaping, fast food, retail, and other service industries.
> 
> If you know of a company with a high percentage of non-white workers, then you know it is what it is.
> 
> I don't know what _"illegal"_ labor is.  The federal government has *no* de jure / constitutional authority over who an employer hires as long as we still have a Right to own property. They may have the* power*, but they absolutely have *no authority*.  So, let me guess, you don't believe in the Rule of Law when the government infringes on private business to your benefit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
Click to expand...

 I actually went to an INS office back in the early 1990's. To report suspicious activity.  I was seeing at 3 am,  mysterious vans without lights sneaking people around . And I saw like 10 people running out in the dark of night into a section 8 housing across the street. And guess what? My concerns were minimized. By the INS even.  There was a lot more to it, but  really?


----------



## danielpalos

hadit said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hadit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wolfmoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about making the American employers obey the local, state and federal laws already on the books. Americans should report any employer hiring illegal aliens. If the employers can't make a living without lying, cheating and breaking the laws. Maybe, the employer shouldn't be in business in the first place and the employer should go get a job!
> 
> 
> 
> Excerpt:
> 
> Sec. 274A. [8 U.S.C. 1324a]
> 
> (a) Making Employment of Unauthorized Aliens Unlawful.-
> (1) In general.-It is unlawful for a person or other entity-
> (A) to hire, or to recruit or refer for a fee, for employment in the United States an alien
> knowing the alien is an unauthorized alien (as defined in subsection (h)(3)) with respect to such
> employment, or
> 
> .ExternalClass DIV{;}
> *[PDF] http://www.uscis.gov/propub/DocView/slbid/1/2/111?hilite=*
> 
> 
> *124k - Adobe PDF - View as html*
> *... Employment of Unauthorized Aliens ... is unlawful for a person or other entity, after hiring an alien for ... 274A - UNLAWFUL *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At the same time, governors and mayors need to be forced to obey federal law.  No more sanctuary cities or states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's consider what is the duty of a Governor, to enforce state law, not federal law.  That is up to the Federal Dept of Justice, and the agencies under the AG including ICE, the FBI, ATF&E, US Marshall's' and many more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When federal law trumps state law, governers have to obey them. Think of it this way, if governors can safely ignore federal immigration law, why shouldn't they be able to ignore federal abortion law? Or environmental law?
Click to expand...

We have our Tenth and Ninth Amendments.  Show us the express immigration clause.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

pknopp said:


> hadit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hadit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wolfmoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about making the American employers obey the local, state and federal laws already on the books. Americans should report any employer hiring illegal aliens. If the employers can't make a living without lying, cheating and breaking the laws. Maybe, the employer shouldn't be in business in the first place and the employer should go get a job!
> 
> 
> 
> Excerpt:
> 
> Sec. 274A. [8 U.S.C. 1324a]
> 
> (a) Making Employment of Unauthorized Aliens Unlawful.-
> (1) In general.-It is unlawful for a person or other entity-
> (A) to hire, or to recruit or refer for a fee, for employment in the United States an alien
> knowing the alien is an unauthorized alien (as defined in subsection (h)(3)) with respect to such
> employment, or
> 
> .ExternalClass DIV{;}
> *[PDF] http://www.uscis.gov/propub/DocView/slbid/1/2/111?hilite=*
> 
> 
> *124k - Adobe PDF - View as html*
> *... Employment of Unauthorized Aliens ... is unlawful for a person or other entity, after hiring an alien for ... 274A - UNLAWFUL *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At the same time, governors and mayors need to be forced to obey federal law.  No more sanctuary cities or states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's consider what is the duty of a Governor, to enforce state law, not federal law.  That is up to the Federal Dept of Justice, and the agencies under the AG including ICE, the FBI, ATF&E, US Marshall's' and many more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When federal law trumps state law, governers have to obey them. Think of it this way, if governors can safely ignore federal immigration law, why shouldn't they be able to ignore federal abortion law? Or environmental law?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> State officials can not enforce Federal immigration laws.
Click to expand...


Do you know that it was the anti - immigrant types that caused that precedent to come about?  They shot themselves in the foot (pun intended if you know what I'm talking about.)


----------



## Porter Rockwell

MaryL said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess some folks need a boulder to fall on their head in order to get it.  Most undocumented workers in America are working in landscaping, fast food, retail, and other service industries.
> 
> If you know of a company with a high percentage of non-white workers, then you know it is what it is.
> 
> I don't know what _"illegal"_ labor is.  The federal government has *no* de jure / constitutional authority over who an employer hires as long as we still have a Right to own property. They may have the* power*, but they absolutely have *no authority*.  So, let me guess, you don't believe in the Rule of Law when the government infringes on private business to your benefit?
> 
> 
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I actually went to an INS office back in the early 1990's. To report suspicious activity.  I was seeing at 3 am,  mysterious vans without lights sneaking people around . And I saw like 10 people running out in the dark of night into a section 8 housing across the street. And guess what? My concerns were minimized. By the INS even.  There was a lot more to it, but  really?
Click to expand...


You are focusing on the wrong people.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America is wasting money because we can and *DO* control the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  The anti-immigrants don't want to admit that walls and the forfeiture of Rights will not stop it.
> 
> Only the American people can stop the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  They have to change their culture and pursue the drug culture the way the left pursues anything they deem "_racist_."
> 
> You have to voluntarily boycott those who do business with foreigners and support American made and American owned businesses that have NO foreigners working for them.  The government cannot save you from yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've never seen a product labelled "Proudly Made by Illegal Labor".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess some folks need a boulder to fall on their head in order to get it.  Most undocumented workers in America are working in landscaping, fast food, retail, and other service industries.
> 
> If you know of a company with a high percentage of non-white workers, then you know it is what it is.
> 
> I don't know what _"illegal"_ labor is.  The federal government has *no* de jure / constitutional authority over who an employer hires as long as we still have a Right to own property. They may have the* power*, but they absolutely have *no authority*.  So, let me guess, you don't believe in the Rule of Law when the government infringes on private business to your benefit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> '
> My brother has not paid income tax for 30 years that I can remember, so it's possibly been longer.  My father never paid them and when he died and willed his property off, everything went off without a hitch.
> 
> There are proven theories of law and unproven ones.  If someone tries to challenge the law and fails, you call him an idiot.  If he succeeds, then he's the good guy.  As Mark Twain once quipped:
> 
> "_In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot_."
> 
> The anti-immigrant lobby refuses to come to grips with what they're saying.  If an employer hires a foreigner, he should be punished???  For what?  If you don't rent / sell your home to a person you feel comfortable, you should go to jail?  WTH???  Have all the American people forgotten that one of the great hallmarks of our Republic is the ability to own property?
> 
> I sometimes offer gigs.  Sometimes they work into full time jobs.  I advertise.  If I have a job to do, I prefer to help American men out that have found themselves locked out of the job market for their past indiscretions.  That is_ "illegal"_ since I'm not supposed to discriminate.  If they don't apply; if they don't show up, then I hire who is available.  It's my job; I created it so I'll give it to who I damn well please.  I'm already doing my part to get sorry ass white people to get back into the workforce.
> 
> But those of you who waste every day on the Internet condemning me on the Internet are not mad at the mothers who allow their 20, 30 40 year old sons and older to live at home, rent free and draw out of the public dole just because they're lazy.  Then the government, insurance, and Big Pharma are keeping the posterity of the founders on drugs and unqualified to do even menial work.
> 
> It would be different *IF* those white people with their nose stuck up Trump's ass were actually looking for a job, would show up, and work.  They don't.  The subcontractors who think they're worth $985 an hour are delusional as well.  So, it comes down to some people losing their home or hiring the foreigner.  Patriotism is worth only so much when the kid next door is sitting on his ass all day on the computer - AND his mother even pays the Mexican kid down the road to cut the freaking grass.  Clean up your own culture.  Send me some folks that want to work.  That is why we started this ministry.... to HELP people.  If whites don't want the work, someone shouldn't lose their home because Uncle Scam is trying to enforce laws they have no *constitutional authority *to enforce in the first place.
Click to expand...

Are you saying the illegals are your property?


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America is wasting money because we can and *DO* control the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  The anti-immigrants don't want to admit that walls and the forfeiture of Rights will not stop it.
> 
> Only the American people can stop the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  They have to change their culture and pursue the drug culture the way the left pursues anything they deem "_racist_."
> 
> You have to voluntarily boycott those who do business with foreigners and support American made and American owned businesses that have NO foreigners working for them.  The government cannot save you from yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've never seen a product labelled "Proudly Made by Illegal Labor".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess some folks need a boulder to fall on their head in order to get it.  Most undocumented workers in America are working in landscaping, fast food, retail, and other service industries.
> 
> If you know of a company with a high percentage of non-white workers, then you know it is what it is.
> 
> I don't know what _"illegal"_ labor is.  The federal government has *no* de jure / constitutional authority over who an employer hires as long as we still have a Right to own property. They may have the* power*, but they absolutely have *no authority*.  So, let me guess, you don't believe in the Rule of Law when the government infringes on private business to your benefit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> '
> My brother has not paid income tax for 30 years that I can remember, so it's possibly been longer.  My father never paid them and when he died and willed his property off, everything went off without a hitch.
> 
> There are proven theories of law and unproven ones.  If someone tries to challenge the law and fails, you call him an idiot.  If he succeeds, then he's the good guy.  As Mark Twain once quipped:
> 
> "_In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot_."
> 
> The anti-immigrant lobby refuses to come to grips with what they're saying.  If an employer hires a foreigner, he should be punished???  For what?  If you don't rent / sell your home to a person you feel comfortable, you should go to jail?  WTH???  Have all the American people forgotten that one of the great hallmarks of our Republic is the ability to own property?
> 
> I sometimes offer gigs.  Sometimes they work into full time jobs.  I advertise.  If I have a job to do, I prefer to help American men out that have found themselves locked out of the job market for their past indiscretions.  That is_ "illegal"_ since I'm not supposed to discriminate.  If they don't apply; if they don't show up, then I hire who is available.  It's my job; I created it so I'll give it to who I damn well please.  I'm already doing my part to get sorry ass white people to get back into the workforce.
> 
> But those of you who waste every day on the Internet condemning me on the Internet are not mad at the mothers who allow their 20, 30 40 year old sons and older to live at home, rent free and draw out of the public dole just because they're lazy.  Then the government, insurance, and Big Pharma are keeping the posterity of the founders on drugs and unqualified to do even menial work.
> 
> It would be different *IF* those white people with their nose stuck up Trump's ass were actually looking for a job, would show up, and work.  They don't.  The subcontractors who think they're worth $985 an hour are delusional as well.  So, it comes down to some people losing their home or hiring the foreigner.  Patriotism is worth only so much when the kid next door is sitting on his ass all day on the computer - AND his mother even pays the Mexican kid down the road to cut the freaking grass.  Clean up your own culture.  Send me some folks that want to work.  That is why we started this ministry.... to HELP people.  If whites don't want the work, someone shouldn't lose their home because Uncle Scam is trying to enforce laws they have no *constitutional authority *to enforce in the first place.
Click to expand...

Justify it all you want, just don’t get caught. Not if we start going after illegal employers like we did on Clinton’s watch.

And letting illegals stay to do more than just fruit picking season actually started on Reagan’s watch, on purpose


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess some folks need a boulder to fall on their head in order to get it.  Most undocumented workers in America are working in landscaping, fast food, retail, and other service industries.
> 
> If you know of a company with a high percentage of non-white workers, then you know it is what it is.
> 
> I don't know what _"illegal"_ labor is.  The federal government has *no* de jure / constitutional authority over who an employer hires as long as we still have a Right to own property. They may have the* power*, but they absolutely have *no authority*.  So, let me guess, you don't believe in the Rule of Law when the government infringes on private business to your benefit?
> 
> 
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And then you guys rape and abuse your illegals because they don’t have rights but you’re doing nothing wrong? You’re nuts.
Click to expand...


I believe that ALL men have *unalienable *Rights.  I pay more to workers than anyone in my area (between $20 and $40 an hour for jobs that take a max of six months to learn.)  *EVERYBODY* is paid the same amount of money based upon the skill set.  I wish Americans would take the jobs, but I don't screw anybody in retaliation.  That so - called _"illegal_" as you erroneously call them usually has a family to feed.  So either I do what is morally right and pay my help *OR* you will pay for it in taxes since many of those children are American citizens.  It would be immoral for me to try and cheat them because of the fact that society is trying to deny them the God given *unalienable* Rights that the Declaratory Charter of the Rights of Man (aka the Declaration of Independence) proclaims.  Stand up for the foundational principles.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> 
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I actually went to an INS office back in the early 1990's. To report suspicious activity.  I was seeing at 3 am,  mysterious vans without lights sneaking people around . And I saw like 10 people running out in the dark of night into a section 8 housing across the street. And guess what? My concerns were minimized. By the INS even.  There was a lot more to it, but  really?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are focusing on the wrong people.
Click to expand...

Yea, we should be rounding up all the white boys living in their parents basements, put them in a caravan headed to Mexico for spring break but don’t let them back.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> America is wasting money because we can and *DO* control the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  The anti-immigrants don't want to admit that walls and the forfeiture of Rights will not stop it.
> 
> Only the American people can stop the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  They have to change their culture and pursue the drug culture the way the left pursues anything they deem "_racist_."
> 
> You have to voluntarily boycott those who do business with foreigners and support American made and American owned businesses that have NO foreigners working for them.  The government cannot save you from yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never seen a product labelled "Proudly Made by Illegal Labor".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess some folks need a boulder to fall on their head in order to get it.  Most undocumented workers in America are working in landscaping, fast food, retail, and other service industries.
> 
> If you know of a company with a high percentage of non-white workers, then you know it is what it is.
> 
> I don't know what _"illegal"_ labor is.  The federal government has *no* de jure / constitutional authority over who an employer hires as long as we still have a Right to own property. They may have the* power*, but they absolutely have *no authority*.  So, let me guess, you don't believe in the Rule of Law when the government infringes on private business to your benefit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> '
> My brother has not paid income tax for 30 years that I can remember, so it's possibly been longer.  My father never paid them and when he died and willed his property off, everything went off without a hitch.
> 
> There are proven theories of law and unproven ones.  If someone tries to challenge the law and fails, you call him an idiot.  If he succeeds, then he's the good guy.  As Mark Twain once quipped:
> 
> "_In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot_."
> 
> The anti-immigrant lobby refuses to come to grips with what they're saying.  If an employer hires a foreigner, he should be punished???  For what?  If you don't rent / sell your home to a person you feel comfortable, you should go to jail?  WTH???  Have all the American people forgotten that one of the great hallmarks of our Republic is the ability to own property?
> 
> I sometimes offer gigs.  Sometimes they work into full time jobs.  I advertise.  If I have a job to do, I prefer to help American men out that have found themselves locked out of the job market for their past indiscretions.  That is_ "illegal"_ since I'm not supposed to discriminate.  If they don't apply; if they don't show up, then I hire who is available.  It's my job; I created it so I'll give it to who I damn well please.  I'm already doing my part to get sorry ass white people to get back into the workforce.
> 
> But those of you who waste every day on the Internet condemning me on the Internet are not mad at the mothers who allow their 20, 30 40 year old sons and older to live at home, rent free and draw out of the public dole just because they're lazy.  Then the government, insurance, and Big Pharma are keeping the posterity of the founders on drugs and unqualified to do even menial work.
> 
> It would be different *IF* those white people with their nose stuck up Trump's ass were actually looking for a job, would show up, and work.  They don't.  The subcontractors who think they're worth $985 an hour are delusional as well.  So, it comes down to some people losing their home or hiring the foreigner.  Patriotism is worth only so much when the kid next door is sitting on his ass all day on the computer - AND his mother even pays the Mexican kid down the road to cut the freaking grass.  Clean up your own culture.  Send me some folks that want to work.  That is why we started this ministry.... to HELP people.  If whites don't want the work, someone shouldn't lose their home because Uncle Scam is trying to enforce laws they have no *constitutional authority *to enforce in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Justify it all you want, just don’t get caught. Not if we start going after illegal employers like we did on Clinton’s watch.
> 
> And letting illegals stay to do more than just fruit picking season actually started on Reagan’s watch, on purpose
Click to expand...


Foreign labor and the drug trade are what is driving the American economy.  If I could get Americans to church and teach them the benefits of self sufficiency, it would begin to change the dynamic.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> 
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I actually went to an INS office back in the early 1990's. To report suspicious activity.  I was seeing at 3 am,  mysterious vans without lights sneaking people around . And I saw like 10 people running out in the dark of night into a section 8 housing across the street. And guess what? My concerns were minimized. By the INS even.  There was a lot more to it, but  really?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are focusing on the wrong people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yea, we should be rounding up all the white boys living in their parents basements, put them in a caravan headed to Mexico for spring break but don’t let them back.
Click to expand...


I'd advocate for that except that it is immoral to pawn off the lazy pieces of shit we've created here.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> 
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And then you guys rape and abuse your illegals because they don’t have rights but you’re doing nothing wrong? You’re nuts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I believe that ALL men have *unalienable *Rights.  I pay more to workers than anyone in my area (between $20 and $40 an hour for jobs that take a max of six months to learn.)  *EVERYBODY* is paid the same amount of money based upon the skill set.  I wish Americans would take the jobs, but I don't screw anybody in retaliation.  That so - called _"illegal_" as you erroneously call them usually has a family to feed.  So either I do what is morally right and pay my help *OR* you will pay for it in taxes since many of those children are American citizens.  It would be immoral for me to try and cheat them because of the fact that society is trying to deny them the God given *unalienable* Rights that the Declaratory Charter of the Rights of Man (aka the Declaration of Independence) proclaims.  Stand up for the foundational principles.
Click to expand...

I’m not saying I wouldn’t do the same.

I want the laws changed so you’re too scared to hire illegals.


----------



## Weatherman2020

sealybobo said:


> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"


Who’s created sanctuary cities and States?


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> America is wasting money because we can and *DO* control the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  The anti-immigrants don't want to admit that walls and the forfeiture of Rights will not stop it.
> 
> Only the American people can stop the flow of foreigners in and out of America.  They have to change their culture and pursue the drug culture the way the left pursues anything they deem "_racist_."
> 
> You have to voluntarily boycott those who do business with foreigners and support American made and American owned businesses that have NO foreigners working for them.  The government cannot save you from yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never seen a product labelled "Proudly Made by Illegal Labor".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess some folks need a boulder to fall on their head in order to get it.  Most undocumented workers in America are working in landscaping, fast food, retail, and other service industries.
> 
> If you know of a company with a high percentage of non-white workers, then you know it is what it is.
> 
> I don't know what _"illegal"_ labor is.  The federal government has *no* de jure / constitutional authority over who an employer hires as long as we still have a Right to own property. They may have the* power*, but they absolutely have *no authority*.  So, let me guess, you don't believe in the Rule of Law when the government infringes on private business to your benefit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> '
> My brother has not paid income tax for 30 years that I can remember, so it's possibly been longer.  My father never paid them and when he died and willed his property off, everything went off without a hitch.
> 
> There are proven theories of law and unproven ones.  If someone tries to challenge the law and fails, you call him an idiot.  If he succeeds, then he's the good guy.  As Mark Twain once quipped:
> 
> "_In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot_."
> 
> The anti-immigrant lobby refuses to come to grips with what they're saying.  If an employer hires a foreigner, he should be punished???  For what?  If you don't rent / sell your home to a person you feel comfortable, you should go to jail?  WTH???  Have all the American people forgotten that one of the great hallmarks of our Republic is the ability to own property?
> 
> I sometimes offer gigs.  Sometimes they work into full time jobs.  I advertise.  If I have a job to do, I prefer to help American men out that have found themselves locked out of the job market for their past indiscretions.  That is_ "illegal"_ since I'm not supposed to discriminate.  If they don't apply; if they don't show up, then I hire who is available.  It's my job; I created it so I'll give it to who I damn well please.  I'm already doing my part to get sorry ass white people to get back into the workforce.
> 
> But those of you who waste every day on the Internet condemning me on the Internet are not mad at the mothers who allow their 20, 30 40 year old sons and older to live at home, rent free and draw out of the public dole just because they're lazy.  Then the government, insurance, and Big Pharma are keeping the posterity of the founders on drugs and unqualified to do even menial work.
> 
> It would be different *IF* those white people with their nose stuck up Trump's ass were actually looking for a job, would show up, and work.  They don't.  The subcontractors who think they're worth $985 an hour are delusional as well.  So, it comes down to some people losing their home or hiring the foreigner.  Patriotism is worth only so much when the kid next door is sitting on his ass all day on the computer - AND his mother even pays the Mexican kid down the road to cut the freaking grass.  Clean up your own culture.  Send me some folks that want to work.  That is why we started this ministry.... to HELP people.  If whites don't want the work, someone shouldn't lose their home because Uncle Scam is trying to enforce laws they have no *constitutional authority *to enforce in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you saying the illegals are your property?
Click to expand...


Have you read even ONE post I've responded to you about?  *I own the job.  I created it. * It's not yours and it is not the government's.  I don't have to worry about being caught or justifying a damn thing.


----------



## MaryL

I have been to the local INS office. To do my duty and report suspicious activity. I did. Seeing say illicit activity and actually reporting it. I did.  What became of that?  I have become more cynical.and that's all.


----------



## sealybobo

Weatherman2020 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> Who’s created sanctuary cities and States?
Click to expand...

It’s looking like entire red states are sanctuary states. Huge companies employing thousands of illegals.

I think Ice rounded up 600 in that Mississippi Koch foods plants.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never seen a product labelled "Proudly Made by Illegal Labor".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess some folks need a boulder to fall on their head in order to get it.  Most undocumented workers in America are working in landscaping, fast food, retail, and other service industries.
> 
> If you know of a company with a high percentage of non-white workers, then you know it is what it is.
> 
> I don't know what _"illegal"_ labor is.  The federal government has *no* de jure / constitutional authority over who an employer hires as long as we still have a Right to own property. They may have the* power*, but they absolutely have *no authority*.  So, let me guess, you don't believe in the Rule of Law when the government infringes on private business to your benefit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> '
> My brother has not paid income tax for 30 years that I can remember, so it's possibly been longer.  My father never paid them and when he died and willed his property off, everything went off without a hitch.
> 
> There are proven theories of law and unproven ones.  If someone tries to challenge the law and fails, you call him an idiot.  If he succeeds, then he's the good guy.  As Mark Twain once quipped:
> 
> "_In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot_."
> 
> The anti-immigrant lobby refuses to come to grips with what they're saying.  If an employer hires a foreigner, he should be punished???  For what?  If you don't rent / sell your home to a person you feel comfortable, you should go to jail?  WTH???  Have all the American people forgotten that one of the great hallmarks of our Republic is the ability to own property?
> 
> I sometimes offer gigs.  Sometimes they work into full time jobs.  I advertise.  If I have a job to do, I prefer to help American men out that have found themselves locked out of the job market for their past indiscretions.  That is_ "illegal"_ since I'm not supposed to discriminate.  If they don't apply; if they don't show up, then I hire who is available.  It's my job; I created it so I'll give it to who I damn well please.  I'm already doing my part to get sorry ass white people to get back into the workforce.
> 
> But those of you who waste every day on the Internet condemning me on the Internet are not mad at the mothers who allow their 20, 30 40 year old sons and older to live at home, rent free and draw out of the public dole just because they're lazy.  Then the government, insurance, and Big Pharma are keeping the posterity of the founders on drugs and unqualified to do even menial work.
> 
> It would be different *IF* those white people with their nose stuck up Trump's ass were actually looking for a job, would show up, and work.  They don't.  The subcontractors who think they're worth $985 an hour are delusional as well.  So, it comes down to some people losing their home or hiring the foreigner.  Patriotism is worth only so much when the kid next door is sitting on his ass all day on the computer - AND his mother even pays the Mexican kid down the road to cut the freaking grass.  Clean up your own culture.  Send me some folks that want to work.  That is why we started this ministry.... to HELP people.  If whites don't want the work, someone shouldn't lose their home because Uncle Scam is trying to enforce laws they have no *constitutional authority *to enforce in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you saying the illegals are your property?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you read even ONE post I've responded to you about?  *I own the job.  I created it. * It's not yours and it is not the government's.  I don't have to worry about being caught or justifying a damn thing.
Click to expand...

I know. I wish the law would start going after companies much bigger than you then work their way down to you.

But you’ll be so scared you’ll send Jose packing long before they get to you.

And hopefully you put in a good word for Jose with immigration. He sounds like he will be a good American citizen. And then you and he will pay taxes.


----------



## Weatherman2020

sealybobo said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> Who’s created sanctuary cities and States?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s looking like entire red states are sanctuary states. Huge companies employing thousands of illegals.
> 
> I think I’ve rounded up 600 in that Mississippi Koch foods plants.
Click to expand...

That was nice of you to round them up.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> 
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And then you guys rape and abuse your illegals because they don’t have rights but you’re doing nothing wrong? You’re nuts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I believe that ALL men have *unalienable *Rights.  I pay more to workers than anyone in my area (between $20 and $40 an hour for jobs that take a max of six months to learn.)  *EVERYBODY* is paid the same amount of money based upon the skill set.  I wish Americans would take the jobs, but I don't screw anybody in retaliation.  That so - called _"illegal_" as you erroneously call them usually has a family to feed.  So either I do what is morally right and pay my help *OR* you will pay for it in taxes since many of those children are American citizens.  It would be immoral for me to try and cheat them because of the fact that society is trying to deny them the God given *unalienable* Rights that the Declaratory Charter of the Rights of Man (aka the Declaration of Independence) proclaims.  Stand up for the foundational principles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’m not saying I wouldn’t do the same.
> 
> I want the laws changed so you’re too scared to hire illegals.
Click to expand...


No man made law would scare me into relinquishing my* unalienable* Rights.  The Word of God instructs me:

"_Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage_."  Galatians 5 : 1


----------



## sealybobo

Weatherman2020 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> Who’s created sanctuary cities and States?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s looking like entire red states are sanctuary states. Huge companies employing thousands of illegals.
> 
> I think I’ve rounded up 600 in that Mississippi Koch foods plants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was nice of you to round them up.
Click to expand...

I changed it. I meant ICE. Lol


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess some folks need a boulder to fall on their head in order to get it.  Most undocumented workers in America are working in landscaping, fast food, retail, and other service industries.
> 
> If you know of a company with a high percentage of non-white workers, then you know it is what it is.
> 
> I don't know what _"illegal"_ labor is.  The federal government has *no* de jure / constitutional authority over who an employer hires as long as we still have a Right to own property. They may have the* power*, but they absolutely have *no authority*.  So, let me guess, you don't believe in the Rule of Law when the government infringes on private business to your benefit?
> 
> 
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> '
> My brother has not paid income tax for 30 years that I can remember, so it's possibly been longer.  My father never paid them and when he died and willed his property off, everything went off without a hitch.
> 
> There are proven theories of law and unproven ones.  If someone tries to challenge the law and fails, you call him an idiot.  If he succeeds, then he's the good guy.  As Mark Twain once quipped:
> 
> "_In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot_."
> 
> The anti-immigrant lobby refuses to come to grips with what they're saying.  If an employer hires a foreigner, he should be punished???  For what?  If you don't rent / sell your home to a person you feel comfortable, you should go to jail?  WTH???  Have all the American people forgotten that one of the great hallmarks of our Republic is the ability to own property?
> 
> I sometimes offer gigs.  Sometimes they work into full time jobs.  I advertise.  If I have a job to do, I prefer to help American men out that have found themselves locked out of the job market for their past indiscretions.  That is_ "illegal"_ since I'm not supposed to discriminate.  If they don't apply; if they don't show up, then I hire who is available.  It's my job; I created it so I'll give it to who I damn well please.  I'm already doing my part to get sorry ass white people to get back into the workforce.
> 
> But those of you who waste every day on the Internet condemning me on the Internet are not mad at the mothers who allow their 20, 30 40 year old sons and older to live at home, rent free and draw out of the public dole just because they're lazy.  Then the government, insurance, and Big Pharma are keeping the posterity of the founders on drugs and unqualified to do even menial work.
> 
> It would be different *IF* those white people with their nose stuck up Trump's ass were actually looking for a job, would show up, and work.  They don't.  The subcontractors who think they're worth $985 an hour are delusional as well.  So, it comes down to some people losing their home or hiring the foreigner.  Patriotism is worth only so much when the kid next door is sitting on his ass all day on the computer - AND his mother even pays the Mexican kid down the road to cut the freaking grass.  Clean up your own culture.  Send me some folks that want to work.  That is why we started this ministry.... to HELP people.  If whites don't want the work, someone shouldn't lose their home because Uncle Scam is trying to enforce laws they have no *constitutional authority *to enforce in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you saying the illegals are your property?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you read even ONE post I've responded to you about?  *I own the job.  I created it. * It's not yours and it is not the government's.  I don't have to worry about being caught or justifying a damn thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know. I wish the law would start going after companies much bigger than you then work their way down to you.
> 
> But you’ll be so scared you’ll send Jose packing long before they get to you.
> 
> And hopefully you put in a good word for Jose with immigration. He sounds like he will be a good American citizen. And then you and he will pay taxes.
Click to expand...


I pay all legal and lawful taxes - a Hell of a lot more of them than you do.  AND so do my Hosea's.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

MaryL said:


> I have been to the local INS office. To do my duty and report suspicious activity. I did. Seeing say illicit activity and actually reporting it. I did.  What became of that?  I have become more cynical.and that's all.



You're focused on the wrong people.


----------



## Weatherman2020

sealybobo said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> Who’s created sanctuary cities and States?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s looking like entire red states are sanctuary states. Huge companies employing thousands of illegals.
> 
> I think I’ve rounded up 600 in that Mississippi Koch foods plants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was nice of you to round them up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I changed it. I meant ICE. Lol
Click to expand...

So did the mayor tip the illegals off about the raid?


----------



## pknopp

Porter Rockwell said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hadit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hadit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wolfmoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about making the American employers obey the local, state and federal laws already on the books. Americans should report any employer hiring illegal aliens. If the employers can't make a living without lying, cheating and breaking the laws. Maybe, the employer shouldn't be in business in the first place and the employer should go get a job!
> 
> 
> 
> Excerpt:
> 
> Sec. 274A. [8 U.S.C. 1324a]
> 
> (a) Making Employment of Unauthorized Aliens Unlawful.-
> (1) In general.-It is unlawful for a person or other entity-
> (A) to hire, or to recruit or refer for a fee, for employment in the United States an alien
> knowing the alien is an unauthorized alien (as defined in subsection (h)(3)) with respect to such
> employment, or
> 
> .ExternalClass DIV{;}
> *[PDF] http://www.uscis.gov/propub/DocView/slbid/1/2/111?hilite=*
> 
> 
> *124k - Adobe PDF - View as html*
> *... Employment of Unauthorized Aliens ... is unlawful for a person or other entity, after hiring an alien for ... 274A - UNLAWFUL *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At the same time, governors and mayors need to be forced to obey federal law.  No more sanctuary cities or states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's consider what is the duty of a Governor, to enforce state law, not federal law.  That is up to the Federal Dept of Justice, and the agencies under the AG including ICE, the FBI, ATF&E, US Marshall's' and many more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When federal law trumps state law, governers have to obey them. Think of it this way, if governors can safely ignore federal immigration law, why shouldn't they be able to ignore federal abortion law? Or environmental law?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> State officials can not enforce Federal immigration laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you know that it was the anti - immigrant types that caused that precedent to come about?  They shot themselves in the foot (pun intended if you know what I'm talking about.)
Click to expand...


 Yes, that is true.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess some folks need a boulder to fall on their head in order to get it.  Most undocumented workers in America are working in landscaping, fast food, retail, and other service industries.
> 
> If you know of a company with a high percentage of non-white workers, then you know it is what it is.
> 
> I don't know what _"illegal"_ labor is.  The federal government has *no* de jure / constitutional authority over who an employer hires as long as we still have a Right to own property. They may have the* power*, but they absolutely have *no authority*.  So, let me guess, you don't believe in the Rule of Law when the government infringes on private business to your benefit?
> 
> 
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but that’s the best title and I’m sticking with it.
> 
> We need to realize it’s not an illegal immigrant problem it’s an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Just like we don’t have a cocaine user problem. We need to go after the manufacturers.
> 
> It’s like going after hungry people who go to Walmart but you don’t go after the waltons.
Click to expand...




sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess some folks need a boulder to fall on their head in order to get it.  Most undocumented workers in America are working in landscaping, fast food, retail, and other service industries.
> 
> If you know of a company with a high percentage of non-white workers, then you know it is what it is.
> 
> I don't know what _"illegal"_ labor is.  The federal government has *no* de jure / constitutional authority over who an employer hires as long as we still have a Right to own property. They may have the* power*, but they absolutely have *no authority*.  So, let me guess, you don't believe in the Rule of Law when the government infringes on private business to your benefit?
> 
> 
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but that’s the best title and I’m sticking with it.
> 
> We need to realize it’s not an illegal immigrant problem it’s an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Just like we don’t have a cocaine user problem. We need to go after the manufacturers.
> 
> It’s like going after hungry people who go to Walmart but you don’t go after the waltons.
Click to expand...




sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess some folks need a boulder to fall on their head in order to get it.  Most undocumented workers in America are working in landscaping, fast food, retail, and other service industries.
> 
> If you know of a company with a high percentage of non-white workers, then you know it is what it is.
> 
> I don't know what _"illegal"_ labor is.  The federal government has *no* de jure / constitutional authority over who an employer hires as long as we still have a Right to own property. They may have the* power*, but they absolutely have *no authority*.  So, let me guess, you don't believe in the Rule of Law when the government infringes on private business to your benefit?
> 
> 
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but that’s the best title and I’m sticking with it.
> 
> We need to realize it’s not an illegal immigrant problem it’s an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Just like we don’t have a cocaine user problem. We need to go after the manufacturers.
> 
> It’s like going after hungry people who go to Walmart but you don’t go after the waltons.
Click to expand...


So you like Trumps ideas on denying Due Process.  Got it.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And then you guys rape and abuse your illegals because they don’t have rights but you’re doing nothing wrong? You’re nuts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I believe that ALL men have *unalienable *Rights.  I pay more to workers than anyone in my area (between $20 and $40 an hour for jobs that take a max of six months to learn.)  *EVERYBODY* is paid the same amount of money based upon the skill set.  I wish Americans would take the jobs, but I don't screw anybody in retaliation.  That so - called _"illegal_" as you erroneously call them usually has a family to feed.  So either I do what is morally right and pay my help *OR* you will pay for it in taxes since many of those children are American citizens.  It would be immoral for me to try and cheat them because of the fact that society is trying to deny them the God given *unalienable* Rights that the Declaratory Charter of the Rights of Man (aka the Declaration of Independence) proclaims.  Stand up for the foundational principles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’m not saying I wouldn’t do the same.
> 
> I want the laws changed so you’re too scared to hire illegals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No man made law would scare me into relinquishing my* unalienable* Rights.  The Word of God instructs me:
> 
> "_Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage_."  Galatians 5 : 1
Click to expand...

Then I hope the law eventually catches up to you.

And even if you get off free in court do you think you’ll go right back to hiring illegals? I wish this would become a nationally televised trial. And at the same time you can try to get off for the tax evasion.

Listen, I make $20k a year tax free money, so I’m not judging you or telling you I think you should stop. I don’t care. Hell two of my customers are illegal immigrants. Ain’t that a pip? If they send illegals home I would lose my two best customers.

I’m talking about what would be good for America not what’s good for you and me personally.

And maybe those lazy kids living in their parents basements will come work for you but you’ll have to pay $25 hr. That’s $200 a Day.

Eventually the enabling parents are going to die and these kids in the basement are going to be screwed. But luckily they aren’t breeding. So eventually we are going to be begging Mexicans to come.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> 
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but that’s the best title and I’m sticking with it.
> 
> We need to realize it’s not an illegal immigrant problem it’s an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Just like we don’t have a cocaine user problem. We need to go after the manufacturers.
> 
> It’s like going after hungry people who go to Walmart but you don’t go after the waltons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but that’s the best title and I’m sticking with it.
> 
> We need to realize it’s not an illegal immigrant problem it’s an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Just like we don’t have a cocaine user problem. We need to go after the manufacturers.
> 
> It’s like going after hungry people who go to Walmart but you don’t go after the waltons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but that’s the best title and I’m sticking with it.
> 
> We need to realize it’s not an illegal immigrant problem it’s an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Just like we don’t have a cocaine user problem. We need to go after the manufacturers.
> 
> It’s like going after hungry people who go to Walmart but you don’t go after the waltons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you like Trumps ideas on denying Due Process.  Got it.
Click to expand...

No I like due process but each decision should take a week or month max.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> 
> 
> '
> My brother has not paid income tax for 30 years that I can remember, so it's possibly been longer.  My father never paid them and when he died and willed his property off, everything went off without a hitch.
> 
> There are proven theories of law and unproven ones.  If someone tries to challenge the law and fails, you call him an idiot.  If he succeeds, then he's the good guy.  As Mark Twain once quipped:
> 
> "_In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot_."
> 
> The anti-immigrant lobby refuses to come to grips with what they're saying.  If an employer hires a foreigner, he should be punished???  For what?  If you don't rent / sell your home to a person you feel comfortable, you should go to jail?  WTH???  Have all the American people forgotten that one of the great hallmarks of our Republic is the ability to own property?
> 
> I sometimes offer gigs.  Sometimes they work into full time jobs.  I advertise.  If I have a job to do, I prefer to help American men out that have found themselves locked out of the job market for their past indiscretions.  That is_ "illegal"_ since I'm not supposed to discriminate.  If they don't apply; if they don't show up, then I hire who is available.  It's my job; I created it so I'll give it to who I damn well please.  I'm already doing my part to get sorry ass white people to get back into the workforce.
> 
> But those of you who waste every day on the Internet condemning me on the Internet are not mad at the mothers who allow their 20, 30 40 year old sons and older to live at home, rent free and draw out of the public dole just because they're lazy.  Then the government, insurance, and Big Pharma are keeping the posterity of the founders on drugs and unqualified to do even menial work.
> 
> It would be different *IF* those white people with their nose stuck up Trump's ass were actually looking for a job, would show up, and work.  They don't.  The subcontractors who think they're worth $985 an hour are delusional as well.  So, it comes down to some people losing their home or hiring the foreigner.  Patriotism is worth only so much when the kid next door is sitting on his ass all day on the computer - AND his mother even pays the Mexican kid down the road to cut the freaking grass.  Clean up your own culture.  Send me some folks that want to work.  That is why we started this ministry.... to HELP people.  If whites don't want the work, someone shouldn't lose their home because Uncle Scam is trying to enforce laws they have no *constitutional authority *to enforce in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you saying the illegals are your property?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you read even ONE post I've responded to you about?  *I own the job.  I created it. * It's not yours and it is not the government's.  I don't have to worry about being caught or justifying a damn thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know. I wish the law would start going after companies much bigger than you then work their way down to you.
> 
> But you’ll be so scared you’ll send Jose packing long before they get to you.
> 
> And hopefully you put in a good word for Jose with immigration. He sounds like he will be a good American citizen. And then you and he will pay taxes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I pay all legal and lawful taxes - a Hell of a lot more of them than you do.  AND so do my Hosea's.
Click to expand...

I pay taxes on 90,000. Actually I max out my 401k so I pay taxes on around $60,000? So what do I pay in taxes? You’re hombres pay more taxes than me? How?


----------



## sealybobo

Weatherman2020 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> Who’s created sanctuary cities and States?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s looking like entire red states are sanctuary states. Huge companies employing thousands of illegals.
> 
> I think I’ve rounded up 600 in that Mississippi Koch foods plants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was nice of you to round them up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I changed it. I meant ICE. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So did the mayor tip the illegals off about the raid?
Click to expand...

If he sympathizes with illegals maybe.

Doesn’t matter. Every other illegal employer is watching to see if charges are brought against the company or owner. So far no? Then business as usual.


----------



## MaryL

I have seen entire industries collapse under the heel of cheap Mexican labor. I see huge growth of homeless Americans  living in tents on the street coincidentally. And then coupled with that, every single time since 2008 when I was a jurist, either the Defendant or the Plaintiff spoke Spanish only.  Which sort of sent  a  big fuck you to the  rest of us. So every time I hear Spanish spoken in public, it seems more a insult or slight. They can learn English and respect us. But they don't. Huge tell. Every other immigrant  from other countries learned English and learned to acclimate. What makes Hispanics special?


----------



## sealybobo

MaryL said:


> I have seen entire industries collapse under the heel of cheap Mexican labor. I see huge growth of homeless Americans  living in tents on the street coincidentally. And then coupled with that, every single time since 2008 when I was a jurist, neither the Defendant nor Plaintiff spoke English.  Which sort of sent  a  big fuck you to the  rest of us. So every time I hear Spanish spoken in public, it seems more a insult or slight. They can learn English and respect us. But they don't.


Ok true, but please don’t tell me these homeless white males were good high school kids who had good work ethics but because of illegals they couldn’t find jobs so instead they turned to drugs.

Or is it probably true those homeless men would have become homeless with or without the illegls.

There’s a lot of homeless people in LA. They come from the north to escape winters. You think they’re willing to work? They didn’t work wherever they came from.

There are a lot of illegals in LA too. That’s just a coincidence.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> 
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but that’s the best title and I’m sticking with it.
> 
> We need to realize it’s not an illegal immigrant problem it’s an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Just like we don’t have a cocaine user problem. We need to go after the manufacturers.
> 
> It’s like going after hungry people who go to Walmart but you don’t go after the waltons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but that’s the best title and I’m sticking with it.
> 
> We need to realize it’s not an illegal immigrant problem it’s an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Just like we don’t have a cocaine user problem. We need to go after the manufacturers.
> 
> It’s like going after hungry people who go to Walmart but you don’t go after the waltons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but that’s the best title and I’m sticking with it.
> 
> We need to realize it’s not an illegal immigrant problem it’s an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Just like we don’t have a cocaine user problem. We need to go after the manufacturers.
> 
> It’s like going after hungry people who go to Walmart but you don’t go after the waltons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you like Trumps ideas on denying Due Process.  Got it.
Click to expand...

Now me, as a private individual, I don’t have to ask each of my personal friends for their papers if they want to build me a deck or paint my place. 

You probably have a cash business. Yea if I were you I wouldn’t be paying taxes on any of that money.

And if you are just hiring friends to do side jobs, and they don’t mind under the table, more power to you.

I can see it from your position.


----------



## MaryL

When I walk down a supermarket isle  next to the chesse, and all I hear is Spanish?  It seems like a big fuck you gringos! THIS was never part of Mexico. Thirty yeas ago in Colorado, Spanish speakers were ashamed of themselves .But NOW? In the current  criminal justice system, you or your lawyer better Habla Espanol.


----------



## Wry Catcher

hadit said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hadit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wolfmoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about making the American employers obey the local, state and federal laws already on the books. Americans should report any employer hiring illegal aliens. If the employers can't make a living without lying, cheating and breaking the laws. Maybe, the employer shouldn't be in business in the first place and the employer should go get a job!
> 
> 
> 
> Excerpt:
> 
> Sec. 274A. [8 U.S.C. 1324a]
> 
> (a) Making Employment of Unauthorized Aliens Unlawful.-
> (1) In general.-It is unlawful for a person or other entity-
> (A) to hire, or to recruit or refer for a fee, for employment in the United States an alien
> knowing the alien is an unauthorized alien (as defined in subsection (h)(3)) with respect to such
> employment, or
> 
> .ExternalClass DIV{;}
> *[PDF] http://www.uscis.gov/propub/DocView/slbid/1/2/111?hilite=*
> 
> 
> *124k - Adobe PDF - View as html*
> *... Employment of Unauthorized Aliens ... is unlawful for a person or other entity, after hiring an alien for ... 274A - UNLAWFUL *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At the same time, governors and mayors need to be forced to obey federal law.  No more sanctuary cities or states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's consider what is the duty of a Governor, to enforce state law, not federal law.  That is up to the Federal Dept of Justice, and the agencies under the AG including ICE, the FBI, ATF&E, US Marshall's' and many more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When federal law trumps state law, governers have to obey them. Think of it this way, if governors can safely ignore federal immigration law, why shouldn't they be able to ignore federal abortion law? Or environmental law?
Click to expand...


Good questions.  Art. VI clause 2 is clear; however, how does the Federal Executive Legally Enforce Executive Orders? Will trump order the arrest of the mayor and governors of sanctuary cities and states?

Once again, COTUS doesn't have all the answers, and thus we may need to see how many suits will be filed, and how many constitutional crisis' will occur?


----------



## Wry Catcher

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I bet a lot of business owners justify what they are doing by buying into this spin. It’s like me with freedom to fascism. I truly believe paying income tax is unconstitutional. Or they say in small writing we’re doing it voluntarily. And if they catch us not paying, we got to convince a jury that freedom to fascism is real. And that’s tough when the state is going to argue you’re nuts to a jury of 12 people who all pay their taxes
> 
> 
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And then you guys rape and abuse your illegals because they don’t have rights but you’re doing nothing wrong? You’re nuts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I believe that ALL men have *unalienable *Rights.  I pay more to workers than anyone in my area (between $20 and $40 an hour for jobs that take a max of six months to learn.)  *EVERYBODY* is paid the same amount of money based upon the skill set.  I wish Americans would take the jobs, but I don't screw anybody in retaliation.  That so - called _"illegal_" as you erroneously call them usually has a family to feed.  So either I do what is morally right and pay my help *OR* you will pay for it in taxes since many of those children are American citizens.  It would be immoral for me to try and cheat them because of the fact that society is trying to deny them the God given *unalienable* Rights that the Declaratory Charter of the Rights of Man (aka the Declaration of Independence) proclaims.  Stand up for the foundational principles.
Click to expand...


Are you familiar with the H-1B Visa?


----------



## sealybobo

Wry Catcher said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> 
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And then you guys rape and abuse your illegals because they don’t have rights but you’re doing nothing wrong? You’re nuts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I believe that ALL men have *unalienable *Rights.  I pay more to workers than anyone in my area (between $20 and $40 an hour for jobs that take a max of six months to learn.)  *EVERYBODY* is paid the same amount of money based upon the skill set.  I wish Americans would take the jobs, but I don't screw anybody in retaliation.  That so - called _"illegal_" as you erroneously call them usually has a family to feed.  So either I do what is morally right and pay my help *OR* you will pay for it in taxes since many of those children are American citizens.  It would be immoral for me to try and cheat them because of the fact that society is trying to deny them the God given *unalienable* Rights that the Declaratory Charter of the Rights of Man (aka the Declaration of Independence) proclaims.  Stand up for the foundational principles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you familiar with the H-1B Visa?
Click to expand...

That’s only for companies big enough to be on the radar. And they’d get turned in by their rivals who are probably unionized and would make a big stink. They can’t get away with straight up paying under the table.

But go to the CEOs home and some illegal is cleaning his pool, gardening or a maid on his estate


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And then you guys rape and abuse your illegals because they don’t have rights but you’re doing nothing wrong? You’re nuts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I believe that ALL men have *unalienable *Rights.  I pay more to workers than anyone in my area (between $20 and $40 an hour for jobs that take a max of six months to learn.)  *EVERYBODY* is paid the same amount of money based upon the skill set.  I wish Americans would take the jobs, but I don't screw anybody in retaliation.  That so - called _"illegal_" as you erroneously call them usually has a family to feed.  So either I do what is morally right and pay my help *OR* you will pay for it in taxes since many of those children are American citizens.  It would be immoral for me to try and cheat them because of the fact that society is trying to deny them the God given *unalienable* Rights that the Declaratory Charter of the Rights of Man (aka the Declaration of Independence) proclaims.  Stand up for the foundational principles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you familiar with the H-1B Visa?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s only for companies big enough to be on the radar. And they’d get turned in by their rivals who are probably unionized and would make a big stink. They can’t get away with straight up paying under the table.
> 
> But go to the CEOs home and some illegal is cleaning his pool, gardening or a maid on his estate
Click to expand...


You mean like the Trumpster?


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Wry Catcher said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> 
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And then you guys rape and abuse your illegals because they don’t have rights but you’re doing nothing wrong? You’re nuts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I believe that ALL men have *unalienable *Rights.  I pay more to workers than anyone in my area (between $20 and $40 an hour for jobs that take a max of six months to learn.)  *EVERYBODY* is paid the same amount of money based upon the skill set.  I wish Americans would take the jobs, but I don't screw anybody in retaliation.  That so - called _"illegal_" as you erroneously call them usually has a family to feed.  So either I do what is morally right and pay my help *OR* you will pay for it in taxes since many of those children are American citizens.  It would be immoral for me to try and cheat them because of the fact that society is trying to deny them the God given *unalienable* Rights that the Declaratory Charter of the Rights of Man (aka the Declaration of Independence) proclaims.  Stand up for the foundational principles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you familiar with the H-1B Visa?
Click to expand...


I know the quotas on them run out long before Georgia farmers can determine their needs each year.  I worked in immigration law for six years - all aspects, all sides.  So I know a couple of things about immigration law... probably not as much as people who treat it like it is their religion. 

I can tell you in more cases than not, the visas don't match up to the needs of the 21st century because what you're talking about is 50 year + old laws when the population was maybe HALF of what it is today and the needs are different due to changing technologies.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> 
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but that’s the best title and I’m sticking with it.
> 
> We need to realize it’s not an illegal immigrant problem it’s an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Just like we don’t have a cocaine user problem. We need to go after the manufacturers.
> 
> It’s like going after hungry people who go to Walmart but you don’t go after the waltons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but that’s the best title and I’m sticking with it.
> 
> We need to realize it’s not an illegal immigrant problem it’s an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Just like we don’t have a cocaine user problem. We need to go after the manufacturers.
> 
> It’s like going after hungry people who go to Walmart but you don’t go after the waltons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I was an modern  employer I would exploit illegal aliens too. I might be a little concerned with displacing lower or middle class Americans, but then the common sense in me  would me take over. But since I am not a modern employer and I see people living in the streets in tents...Screw wetbacks and those that employ them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but that’s the best title and I’m sticking with it.
> 
> We need to realize it’s not an illegal immigrant problem it’s an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Just like we don’t have a cocaine user problem. We need to go after the manufacturers.
> 
> It’s like going after hungry people who go to Walmart but you don’t go after the waltons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you like Trumps ideas on denying Due Process.  Got it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I like due process but each decision should take a week or month max.
Click to expand...


Well, you really do not understand Due Process:

1) Presumption of innocence 

2) Warrants based upon probable cause

3) In the case of mental cases, you need to* prove* someone is a danger BEFORE they can be held in custody.

That is why I submitted an idea to all my congresscritters that involves a *civil intervention* when a minor displays behavior that leads reasonable people to believe that minor may be in danger and / or pose a danger.  Catch the problem early and fix it.  Nobody has to go to jail; nobody has to acquire a record; nobody will lose any constitutional rights; no new taxes; now new bureaucracies; no gun control and 90 percent fewer mass shootings not to mention the residual effects on domestic violence, dysfunctional homes, abused children, etc.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> '
> My brother has not paid income tax for 30 years that I can remember, so it's possibly been longer.  My father never paid them and when he died and willed his property off, everything went off without a hitch.
> 
> There are proven theories of law and unproven ones.  If someone tries to challenge the law and fails, you call him an idiot.  If he succeeds, then he's the good guy.  As Mark Twain once quipped:
> 
> "_In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot_."
> 
> The anti-immigrant lobby refuses to come to grips with what they're saying.  If an employer hires a foreigner, he should be punished???  For what?  If you don't rent / sell your home to a person you feel comfortable, you should go to jail?  WTH???  Have all the American people forgotten that one of the great hallmarks of our Republic is the ability to own property?
> 
> I sometimes offer gigs.  Sometimes they work into full time jobs.  I advertise.  If I have a job to do, I prefer to help American men out that have found themselves locked out of the job market for their past indiscretions.  That is_ "illegal"_ since I'm not supposed to discriminate.  If they don't apply; if they don't show up, then I hire who is available.  It's my job; I created it so I'll give it to who I damn well please.  I'm already doing my part to get sorry ass white people to get back into the workforce.
> 
> But those of you who waste every day on the Internet condemning me on the Internet are not mad at the mothers who allow their 20, 30 40 year old sons and older to live at home, rent free and draw out of the public dole just because they're lazy.  Then the government, insurance, and Big Pharma are keeping the posterity of the founders on drugs and unqualified to do even menial work.
> 
> It would be different *IF* those white people with their nose stuck up Trump's ass were actually looking for a job, would show up, and work.  They don't.  The subcontractors who think they're worth $985 an hour are delusional as well.  So, it comes down to some people losing their home or hiring the foreigner.  Patriotism is worth only so much when the kid next door is sitting on his ass all day on the computer - AND his mother even pays the Mexican kid down the road to cut the freaking grass.  Clean up your own culture.  Send me some folks that want to work.  That is why we started this ministry.... to HELP people.  If whites don't want the work, someone shouldn't lose their home because Uncle Scam is trying to enforce laws they have no *constitutional authority *to enforce in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying the illegals are your property?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you read even ONE post I've responded to you about?  *I own the job.  I created it. * It's not yours and it is not the government's.  I don't have to worry about being caught or justifying a damn thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know. I wish the law would start going after companies much bigger than you then work their way down to you.
> 
> But you’ll be so scared you’ll send Jose packing long before they get to you.
> 
> And hopefully you put in a good word for Jose with immigration. He sounds like he will be a good American citizen. And then you and he will pay taxes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I pay all legal and lawful taxes - a Hell of a lot more of them than you do.  AND so do my Hosea's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I pay taxes on 90,000. Actually I max out my 401k so I pay taxes on around $60,000? So what do I pay in taxes? You’re hombres pay more taxes than me? How?
Click to expand...


They pay federal taxes (maybe 40 cents or more per gallon) on gasoline.  They have big families and log lots of miles.  They also smoke cigarettes, buy booze, etc. which have federal taxes on them.   Believe me, if you have not researched the non-partisan studies on this subject, you don't need to argue with me.  Every non-partisan study that comes out ends with the same thing: undocumented foreigners pay as much in taxes as they receive in benefits.

The *ONLY *guy disputing that is a eugenics activist and anti - immigrant rich dude that founded and financed all the right wing non-profits that supply the Trumpsters with their talking points.


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but that’s the best title and I’m sticking with it.
> 
> We need to realize it’s not an illegal immigrant problem it’s an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Just like we don’t have a cocaine user problem. We need to go after the manufacturers.
> 
> It’s like going after hungry people who go to Walmart but you don’t go after the waltons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but that’s the best title and I’m sticking with it.
> 
> We need to realize it’s not an illegal immigrant problem it’s an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Just like we don’t have a cocaine user problem. We need to go after the manufacturers.
> 
> It’s like going after hungry people who go to Walmart but you don’t go after the waltons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would hire them to. No one is going to do anything to me if I do.
> 
> Although, we had this Chinese restaurant that’d been around for 50 years. One of the owners houses burnt down and 6 wetbacks were in the basement. They all dies and the restaurants closed. I don’t know what happened to the owners but I’m sure they got in trouble.
> 
> But there are basically no penalties or no one coming to get you if you’re an illegal employer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but that’s the best title and I’m sticking with it.
> 
> We need to realize it’s not an illegal immigrant problem it’s an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Just like we don’t have a cocaine user problem. We need to go after the manufacturers.
> 
> It’s like going after hungry people who go to Walmart but you don’t go after the waltons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you like Trumps ideas on denying Due Process.  Got it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I like due process but each decision should take a week or month max.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, you really do not understand Due Process:
> 
> 1) Presumption of innocence
> 
> 2) Warrants based upon probable cause
> 
> 3) In the case of mental cases, you need to* prove* someone is a danger BEFORE they can be held in custody.
> 
> That is why I submitted an idea to all my congresscritters that involves a *civil intervention* when a minor displays behavior that leads reasonable people to believe that minor may be in danger and / or pose a danger.  Catch the problem early and fix it.  Nobody has to go to jail; nobody has to acquire a record; nobody will lose any constitutional rights; no new taxes; now new bureaucracies; no gun control and 90 percent fewer mass shootings not to mention the residual effects on domestic violence, dysfunctional homes, abused children, etc.
Click to expand...

Huh?

We’re talking about an illegal immigrant right?

Innocent? Are they claiming they are here legally?

Warrants? I’m talking about after they’ve been caught.

How is trump keeping so many people who are not dangerous in cages?

Is trump not following due process?


----------



## sealybobo

Porter Rockwell said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying the illegals are your property?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you read even ONE post I've responded to you about?  *I own the job.  I created it. * It's not yours and it is not the government's.  I don't have to worry about being caught or justifying a damn thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know. I wish the law would start going after companies much bigger than you then work their way down to you.
> 
> But you’ll be so scared you’ll send Jose packing long before they get to you.
> 
> And hopefully you put in a good word for Jose with immigration. He sounds like he will be a good American citizen. And then you and he will pay taxes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I pay all legal and lawful taxes - a Hell of a lot more of them than you do.  AND so do my Hosea's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I pay taxes on 90,000. Actually I max out my 401k so I pay taxes on around $60,000? So what do I pay in taxes? You’re hombres pay more taxes than me? How?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They pay federal taxes (maybe 40 cents or more per gallon) on gasoline.  They have big families and log lots of miles.  They also smoke cigarettes, buy booze, etc. which have federal taxes on them.   Believe me, if you have not researched the non-partisan studies on this subject, you don't need to argue with me.  Every non-partisan study that comes out ends with the same thing: undocumented foreigners pay as much in taxes as they receive in benefits.
> 
> The *ONLY *guy disputing that is a eugenics activist and anti - immigrant rich dude that founded and financed all the right wing non-profits that supply the Trumpsters with their talking points.
Click to expand...

Well they/you aren’t paying enough because you aren’t paying payroll taxes.


----------



## WinterBorn

The thing to remember is that crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor.     Hiring illegal aliens is a felony.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you read even ONE post I've responded to you about?  *I own the job.  I created it. * It's not yours and it is not the government's.  I don't have to worry about being caught or justifying a damn thing.
> 
> 
> 
> I know. I wish the law would start going after companies much bigger than you then work their way down to you.
> 
> But you’ll be so scared you’ll send Jose packing long before they get to you.
> 
> And hopefully you put in a good word for Jose with immigration. He sounds like he will be a good American citizen. And then you and he will pay taxes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I pay all legal and lawful taxes - a Hell of a lot more of them than you do.  AND so do my Hosea's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I pay taxes on 90,000. Actually I max out my 401k so I pay taxes on around $60,000? So what do I pay in taxes? You’re hombres pay more taxes than me? How?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They pay federal taxes (maybe 40 cents or more per gallon) on gasoline.  They have big families and log lots of miles.  They also smoke cigarettes, buy booze, etc. which have federal taxes on them.   Believe me, if you have not researched the non-partisan studies on this subject, you don't need to argue with me.  Every non-partisan study that comes out ends with the same thing: undocumented foreigners pay as much in taxes as they receive in benefits.
> 
> The *ONLY *guy disputing that is a eugenics activist and anti - immigrant rich dude that founded and financed all the right wing non-profits that supply the Trumpsters with their talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well they/you aren’t paying enough because you aren’t paying payroll taxes.
Click to expand...


You have to be the* most ignorant poster on this board*.  It will be my pleasure to straighten you out once again:

According to the Chief Actuary of the Socialist Security Administration, about 75 percent of undocumented foreigners get an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number and pay the same taxes that you.  Included in that amount is over $12 BILLION DOLLARS per year into Socialist Security.  Adding insult to injury, they cannot draw one thin dime of that money out in retirement.

Sealy, you have once again made an argument in favor of the graduated income tax - a plank directly out of the Communist Manifesto.


----------



## sealybobo

WinterBorn said:


> The thing to remember is that crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor.     Hiring illegal aliens is a felony.


But it’s not being enforced. Let me know when Mr. Koch gets that felony. ICE just rounded up 600 illegals at his companies. 1 year in prison for each one sounds fair.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

sealybobo said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry but that’s the best title and I’m sticking with it.
> 
> We need to realize it’s not an illegal immigrant problem it’s an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Just like we don’t have a cocaine user problem. We need to go after the manufacturers.
> 
> It’s like going after hungry people who go to Walmart but you don’t go after the waltons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but that’s the best title and I’m sticking with it.
> 
> We need to realize it’s not an illegal immigrant problem it’s an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Just like we don’t have a cocaine user problem. We need to go after the manufacturers.
> 
> It’s like going after hungry people who go to Walmart but you don’t go after the waltons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> An employer should not be called "_illegal"_ on account of who he hires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but that’s the best title and I’m sticking with it.
> 
> We need to realize it’s not an illegal immigrant problem it’s an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Just like we don’t have a cocaine user problem. We need to go after the manufacturers.
> 
> It’s like going after hungry people who go to Walmart but you don’t go after the waltons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you like Trumps ideas on denying Due Process.  Got it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I like due process but each decision should take a week or month max.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, you really do not understand Due Process:
> 
> 1) Presumption of innocence
> 
> 2) Warrants based upon probable cause
> 
> 3) In the case of mental cases, you need to* prove* someone is a danger BEFORE they can be held in custody.
> 
> That is why I submitted an idea to all my congresscritters that involves a *civil intervention* when a minor displays behavior that leads reasonable people to believe that minor may be in danger and / or pose a danger.  Catch the problem early and fix it.  Nobody has to go to jail; nobody has to acquire a record; nobody will lose any constitutional rights; no new taxes; now new bureaucracies; no gun control and 90 percent fewer mass shootings not to mention the residual effects on domestic violence, dysfunctional homes, abused children, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Huh?
> 
> We’re talking about an illegal immigrant right?
> 
> Innocent? Are they claiming they are here legally?
> 
> Warrants? I’m talking about after they’ve been caught.
> 
> How is trump keeping so many people who are not dangerous in cages?
> 
> Is trump not following due process?
Click to expand...


Do you know *ANYTHING* at all about immigration law?  *ANYTHING*?

There is no such thing as an _"illegal immigrant_."  First, from a *LEGAL DEFINITION*, let us define an immigrant:

"_This term describes a person who enters a country for *permanent residence* from another country_."

What is IMMIGRANT? definition of IMMIGRANT (Black's Law Dictionary)

I first got involved in the immigration issue (as solely a legal / political issue) in *1986*.  At that time, the INS (which is now BICE) estimated that nearly 1 million people crossed the border without papers.  They were already estimating that we had 6 million undocumented foreigners here.  A little math tells me that we should have 33 million undocumented foreigners if those figures are correct.  But, those same agencies are now saying we have 10 million undocumented foreigners.

Allowing for growth population, we have same number of undocumented foreigners per capita to the number of citizens since that time.  That tells me that most of those people are NOT coming here for permanent residence - and IF they were coming here for permanent residence, they would have taken advantage of the *SIX* "_amnesty_" periods between 1986 and 2001.  So, these are *NOT *immigrants; immigrants plan on staying here permanently.  These are people who are guest workers engaging in otherwise legal activities.

They do not have to claim to be here legally. * IF* you believe in the "_Rule of Law"_, they *ARE* here legally.  When America was founded, only whites could be citizens.  Yet non-whites poured in to take advantage of opportunities willingly offered.  *AFTER* all the founders / framers had passed on, the United States Supreme Court granted to Congress _plenary powers_ over everything to do with foreigners in 1875.  There is *NO* provision in the Constitution giving the United States Supreme Court *ANY authority* to grant any kind of powers to another branch of government.  So, then guest workers became known as "_immigrants_," but NO case law has ever changed the meaning of the word.  Either you believe in this "_Rule of Law_" or you don't.

In 2012, the United States Supreme Court ruled:

"... _it is not generally a crime for a removable alien to be present in the United States_..."    _Arizona v. United States_, 567 U.S. 387 (2012)

Trump is able to do most of the stuff he does because America has two competing governments:

The de jure / lawful / constitutional Republic as envisioned by the founders and framers and
The de facto / illegal / unconstitutional Federal - Legislative Democracy operating outside the bounds of the Constitution from Washington Wonderland, District of Corruption.  These people definitely have the *POWER* to enforce unconstitutional policies and make unconstitutional laws, but they damn well do not have the *AUTHORITY*.

When the government passed the so - called "_Patriot Act_," I was on the side of the fence that you support.  Then the system decided that I was a domestic terrorist / enemy combatant for what I believed.  Did I break any laws?  NO.  Did I advocate or condone the breaking of any laws?  Again NO.  Did I even associate with anyone who would advocate or condone the breaking of any laws?  Again, NO.  When my lily white ass became the target of the feds, the people you think hung the moon were the same kind of people that threw me under the bus and ran like scalded dogs.

You see, under these new laws, all they have to do is label you something... illegal immigrant, domestic terrorist - whoever is in power makes the call as to who the bad guy is.  And when it's YOUR ass on the line, you get a whole new perspective about this.  The government intended to raid my house, kick in the doors, kill me and then claim I resisted arrest.  When the feds don't like your political message, they now have a wide net to cast in order to catch you and then they can make a false claim about you and deny you Due Process..  

The way to slow down the foreigners coming here is to clean up our own back yard, get the youth off drugs, get people back into the workforce, and begin reducing the size, power and scope of government.  All you're advocating for may sound good to you, but when the balance of power changes (and the liberals WILL come back to power at some point) and YOU become the bad guy then you would be well advised to heed the warning of Thomas Paine (one of the founders):

"_He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself._"   Thomas Paine


----------



## MaryL

MaryL said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> That's the core issue here. But back in the day,  the people that employed illegals would sometimes argue their cause on chat boards. And the single thing that drove them, seemed to be EVERYYONE does it and we know its wrong but it has become the status quo. This all came out of a WW2 program, project  Brazos that hired  Mexicans because of the nature  of the time and the  labor shortages, but now? Seems a little antiquated. And judging by the huge numbers of  American  jobless and dispossessed its become antithetical to the  vox populi. But who cares?
Click to expand...

Let me clarify this: What I was referring to originally as Project  Brazos (memory fails me sometimes), was actually called  the  "Braceoro Program".  Google it. It inevitably opened  a pandora's box  for  illegal aliens and their exploitation by unscrupulous businesses and created this whole snowball effect.


----------



## kwc57

sealybobo said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> like what?  i usually ask questions until i win my arguments.  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go again with another riddle I have do decipher.  LOL.
> 
> Like what?  Like you saying this:  the right wing is simply too lazy even with their alleged subscription to a work ethic from the Age of Iron.
> 
> Age of Iron?  Is that a Marvel movie?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> just my perception of the right wing.
> 
> i have no confidence in their sincerity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump won't go after illegal employers but he will waste taxpayer money putting migrants in prison just to score political points.
> 
> *Trump Administration Prosecutes Migrant Workers Arrested In Mississippi ICE Raid*
> Forty-one of the workers face criminal prosecution under immigration laws
> 
> Immigration officials rounded up some 680 unauthorized migrants working at the plants
> 
> You telling me the company didn't know 680 of their employees were unauthorized?  Impossible.
> 
> Critics like immigration lawyer David Leopold contend that ICE’s worksite investigations should focus on employers who exploit undocumented labor, rather than on workers.
> 
> One of the workers charged with felony reentry had been sent back to Mexico twice in 2006, after getting arrested both times at the border in Calexico, California. After finally making his way past the border, immigration officials arrested him during a 2008 worksite raid of Howard Industries in Laurel, Mississippi. At the time, it was the largest single-state worksite operation in ICE history, with 600 arrests.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but Mississippi doesn't have any sanctuary cities right?
> 
> Who should be going to jail?  The owner of Koch Industries and Howard Industries.  Are you trying to tell me Mr. Koch didn't hear about the raid on Howard Industries in 2008?
> 
> I read the entire article.  Not one mention of going after the illegal employer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we are wasting money on border policy.  Why are we losing money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Illegals do seem to keep getting in. I think it’s on purpose. Maybe the drug cartels start killing senators if the border completely closes. Or maybe that’s how American companies want it.
> 
> With the technology we have we should be able to find bodies walking in a desert
Click to expand...

That's raaacccciiiissssttttt...


----------



## Polishprince

sealybobo said:


> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"




Since Illegal Aliens are a protected class that the left refuses to deport even when they commit serious crimes like DUI, why is is such an unpardonable sin to hire them, particularly if they have Fake ID and say they are citizens and they just "plum forgot"?


In actuality, to hire enough undercover ICE agents to hand out in all of our nation's Home Depot parking lots to nab citizens trying to hire illegals would be fantastically expensive as opposed to the wall


----------



## Porter Rockwell

Polishprince said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since Illegal Aliens are a protected class that the left refuses to deport even when they commit serious crimes like DUI, why is is such an unpardonable sin to hire them, particularly if they have Fake ID and say they are citizens and they just "plum forgot"?
> 
> 
> In actuality, to hire enough undercover ICE agents to hand out in all of our nation's Home Depot parking lots to nab citizens trying to hire illegals would be fantastically expensive as opposed to the wall
Click to expand...


The people you call "_illegal aliens_" are not a protected class.  Quite the converse was true at one time.  When the Constitution was ratified, only whites could be citizens.

The 14th Amendment was* illegally* ratified; nonetheless, it guarantees to all_ persons_ the right (sic) to liberty.  So, it makes no sense.  On the one hand your "*Supreme Law of the Land*" guarantees to all _persons_ the right (sic) of liberty and then you have laws against them coming here and you call them "_illegal aliens_" without extending the right of the_ equal protection of the laws_ to them.  If you're wondering why Americans don't have any of their Rights left, this should ring a bell with you.


----------



## danielpalos

Polishprince said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since Illegal Aliens are a protected class that the left refuses to deport even when they commit serious crimes like DUI, why is is such an unpardonable sin to hire them, particularly if they have Fake ID and say they are citizens and they just "plum forgot"?
> 
> 
> In actuality, to hire enough undercover ICE agents to hand out in all of our nation's Home Depot parking lots to nab citizens trying to hire illegals would be fantastically expensive as opposed to the wall
Click to expand...

There is no immigration clause in our federal Constitution.  That is the moral dilemma regarding faithful execution of our supreme law of the land.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since Illegal Aliens are a protected class that the left refuses to deport even when they commit serious crimes like DUI, why is is such an unpardonable sin to hire them, particularly if they have Fake ID and say they are citizens and they just "plum forgot"?
> 
> 
> In actuality, to hire enough undercover ICE agents to hand out in all of our nation's Home Depot parking lots to nab citizens trying to hire illegals would be fantastically expensive as opposed to the wall
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The people you call "_illegal aliens_" are not a protected class.  Quite the converse was true at one time.  When the Constitution was ratified, only whites could be citizens.
> 
> The 14th Amendment was* illegally* ratified; nonetheless, it guarantees to all_ persons_ the right (sic) to liberty.  So, it makes no sense.  On the one hand your "*Supreme Law of the Land*" guarantees to all _persons_ the right (sic) of liberty and then you have laws against them coming here and you call them "_illegal aliens_" without extending the right of the_ equal protection of the laws_ to them.  If you're wondering why Americans don't have any of their Rights left, this should ring a bell with you.
Click to expand...

Mexicans are considered white for that reason.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since Illegal Aliens are a protected class that the left refuses to deport even when they commit serious crimes like DUI, why is is such an unpardonable sin to hire them, particularly if they have Fake ID and say they are citizens and they just "plum forgot"?
> 
> 
> In actuality, to hire enough undercover ICE agents to hand out in all of our nation's Home Depot parking lots to nab citizens trying to hire illegals would be fantastically expensive as opposed to the wall
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no immigration clause in our federal Constitution.  That is the moral dilemma regarding faithful execution of our supreme law of the land.
Click to expand...


You need some new material


----------



## hadit

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since Illegal Aliens are a protected class that the left refuses to deport even when they commit serious crimes like DUI, why is is such an unpardonable sin to hire them, particularly if they have Fake ID and say they are citizens and they just "plum forgot"?
> 
> 
> In actuality, to hire enough undercover ICE agents to hand out in all of our nation's Home Depot parking lots to nab citizens trying to hire illegals would be fantastically expensive as opposed to the wall
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no immigration clause in our federal Constitution.  That is the moral dilemma regarding faithful execution of our supreme law of the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need some new material
Click to expand...


I think that would only confuse him.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since Illegal Aliens are a protected class that the left refuses to deport even when they commit serious crimes like DUI, why is is such an unpardonable sin to hire them, particularly if they have Fake ID and say they are citizens and they just "plum forgot"?
> 
> 
> In actuality, to hire enough undercover ICE agents to hand out in all of our nation's Home Depot parking lots to nab citizens trying to hire illegals would be fantastically expensive as opposed to the wall
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The people you call "_illegal aliens_" are not a protected class.  Quite the converse was true at one time.  When the Constitution was ratified, only whites could be citizens.
> 
> The 14th Amendment was* illegally* ratified; nonetheless, it guarantees to all_ persons_ the right (sic) to liberty.  So, it makes no sense.  On the one hand your "*Supreme Law of the Land*" guarantees to all _persons_ the right (sic) of liberty and then you have laws against them coming here and you call them "_illegal aliens_" without extending the right of the_ equal protection of the laws_ to them.  If you're wondering why Americans don't have any of their Rights left, this should ring a bell with you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mexicans are considered white for that reason.
Click to expand...


That does not compute.

Definitions of whiteness in the United States - Wikipedia


----------



## sealybobo

Polishprince said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since Illegal Aliens are a protected class that the left refuses to deport even when they commit serious crimes like DUI, why is is such an unpardonable sin to hire them, particularly if they have Fake ID and say they are citizens and they just "plum forgot"?
> 
> 
> In actuality, to hire enough undercover ICE agents to hand out in all of our nation's Home Depot parking lots to nab citizens trying to hire illegals would be fantastically expensive as opposed to the wall
Click to expand...


Listen up.  That raid on that Mississippi food plant was great.  Only problem is the government didn't punish the company.  So do you think other companies doing it are going to stop?  Not if the only people who get in trouble are the workers.

You guys are truly idiots. 

Why in your mind do we have to go around to all the home depot's in the country to round up illegals?  First of all, that doesn't happen in my neighborhood.  Probably doesn't happen in most neighborhoods.  So, if illegals mexicans are standing outside of your home depot, yes we should send ICE there to round them up.  Then you as a shopper don't have to worry about the lure of their cheap labor.  

And I love it how you say if we don't let you build a wall from coast to coast, then companies shouldn't have to stop hiring illegals.

I get it.  You don't want companies to have to stop hiring illegals.  In fact you would never fault an illegal employer for being unpatriotic.  That's impossible because they are makers and I'm just a taker.  You worship them so much you give them a pass on luring the illegal workers here.

So don't ever expect to solve this problem.  Not with your partisan bullshit.  

Just remember this dumb shit

"Between 1999 and 2003, work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which subsequently was merged into the Homeland Security Department. The number of employers prosecuted for unlawfully employing immigrants dropped from 182 in 1999 to four in 2003, and fines collected declined from $3.6 million to $212,000, according to federal statistics.

"In 1999, the United States initiated fines against 417 companies. In 2004, it issued fine notices to three."


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since Illegal Aliens are a protected class that the left refuses to deport even when they commit serious crimes like DUI, why is is such an unpardonable sin to hire them, particularly if they have Fake ID and say they are citizens and they just "plum forgot"?
> 
> 
> In actuality, to hire enough undercover ICE agents to hand out in all of our nation's Home Depot parking lots to nab citizens trying to hire illegals would be fantastically expensive as opposed to the wall
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no immigration clause in our federal Constitution.  That is the moral dilemma regarding faithful execution of our supreme law of the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need some new material
Click to expand...

you have nothing more supreme than that.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since Illegal Aliens are a protected class that the left refuses to deport even when they commit serious crimes like DUI, why is is such an unpardonable sin to hire them, particularly if they have Fake ID and say they are citizens and they just "plum forgot"?
> 
> 
> In actuality, to hire enough undercover ICE agents to hand out in all of our nation's Home Depot parking lots to nab citizens trying to hire illegals would be fantastically expensive as opposed to the wall
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The people you call "_illegal aliens_" are not a protected class.  Quite the converse was true at one time.  When the Constitution was ratified, only whites could be citizens.
> 
> The 14th Amendment was* illegally* ratified; nonetheless, it guarantees to all_ persons_ the right (sic) to liberty.  So, it makes no sense.  On the one hand your "*Supreme Law of the Land*" guarantees to all _persons_ the right (sic) of liberty and then you have laws against them coming here and you call them "_illegal aliens_" without extending the right of the_ equal protection of the laws_ to them.  If you're wondering why Americans don't have any of their Rights left, this should ring a bell with you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mexicans are considered white for that reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That does not compute.
> 
> Definitions of whiteness in the United States - Wikipedia
Click to expand...

defined by the Treaty that provided for US Jurisdiction over formerly foreign lands.


----------



## Polishprince

sealybobo said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since Illegal Aliens are a protected class that the left refuses to deport even when they commit serious crimes like DUI, why is is such an unpardonable sin to hire them, particularly if they have Fake ID and say they are citizens and they just "plum forgot"?
> 
> 
> In actuality, to hire enough undercover ICE agents to hand out in all of our nation's Home Depot parking lots to nab citizens trying to hire illegals would be fantastically expensive as opposed to the wall
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Listen up.  That raid on that Mississippi food plant was great.  Only problem is the government didn't punish the company.  So do you think other companies doing it are going to stop?  Not if the only people who get in trouble are the workers.
> 
> You guys are truly idiots.
> 
> Why in your mind do we have to go around to all the home depot's in the country to round up illegals?  First of all, that doesn't happen in my neighborhood.  Probably doesn't happen in most neighborhoods.  So, if illegals mexicans are standing outside of your home depot, yes we should send ICE there to round them up.  Then you as a shopper don't have to worry about the lure of their cheap labor.
> 
> And I love it how you say if we don't let you build a wall from coast to coast, then companies shouldn't have to stop hiring illegals.
> 
> I get it.  You don't want companies to have to stop hiring illegals.  In fact you would never fault an illegal employer for being unpatriotic.  That's impossible because they are makers and I'm just a taker.  You worship them so much you give them a pass on luring the illegal workers here.
> 
> So don't ever expect to solve this problem.  Not with your partisan bullshit.
> 
> Just remember this dumb shit
> 
> "Between 1999 and 2003, work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which subsequently was merged into the Homeland Security Department. The number of employers prosecuted for unlawfully employing immigrants dropped from 182 in 1999 to four in 2003, and fines collected declined from $3.6 million to $212,000, according to federal statistics.
> 
> "In 1999, the United States initiated fines against 417 companies. In 2004, it issued fine notices to three."
Click to expand...




Did the company in Mississippi KNOWINGLY hire illegals? Can it be proven beyond a reasonable doubt?  If they didn't do it knowingly, it isn't a crime on their part.

Did the workers mention on the job application they were illegals?


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since Illegal Aliens are a protected class that the left refuses to deport even when they commit serious crimes like DUI, why is is such an unpardonable sin to hire them, particularly if they have Fake ID and say they are citizens and they just "plum forgot"?
> 
> 
> In actuality, to hire enough undercover ICE agents to hand out in all of our nation's Home Depot parking lots to nab citizens trying to hire illegals would be fantastically expensive as opposed to the wall
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The people you call "_illegal aliens_" are not a protected class.  Quite the converse was true at one time.  When the Constitution was ratified, only whites could be citizens.
> 
> The 14th Amendment was* illegally* ratified; nonetheless, it guarantees to all_ persons_ the right (sic) to liberty.  So, it makes no sense.  On the one hand your "*Supreme Law of the Land*" guarantees to all _persons_ the right (sic) of liberty and then you have laws against them coming here and you call them "_illegal aliens_" without extending the right of the_ equal protection of the laws_ to them.  If you're wondering why Americans don't have any of their Rights left, this should ring a bell with you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mexicans are considered white for that reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That does not compute.
> 
> Definitions of whiteness in the United States - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> defined by the Treaty that provided for US Jurisdiction over formerly foreign lands.
Click to expand...


I'm afraid to ask what treaty has anything about race in it.


----------



## baileyn45

Polishprince said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since Illegal Aliens are a protected class that the left refuses to deport even when they commit serious crimes like DUI, why is is such an unpardonable sin to hire them, particularly if they have Fake ID and say they are citizens and they just "plum forgot"?
> 
> 
> In actuality, to hire enough undercover ICE agents to hand out in all of our nation's Home Depot parking lots to nab citizens trying to hire illegals would be fantastically expensive as opposed to the wall
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Listen up.  That raid on that Mississippi food plant was great.  Only problem is the government didn't punish the company.  So do you think other companies doing it are going to stop?  Not if the only people who get in trouble are the workers.
> 
> You guys are truly idiots.
> 
> Why in your mind do we have to go around to all the home depot's in the country to round up illegals?  First of all, that doesn't happen in my neighborhood.  Probably doesn't happen in most neighborhoods.  So, if illegals mexicans are standing outside of your home depot, yes we should send ICE there to round them up.  Then you as a shopper don't have to worry about the lure of their cheap labor.
> 
> And I love it how you say if we don't let you build a wall from coast to coast, then companies shouldn't have to stop hiring illegals.
> 
> I get it.  You don't want companies to have to stop hiring illegals.  In fact you would never fault an illegal employer for being unpatriotic.  That's impossible because they are makers and I'm just a taker.  You worship them so much you give them a pass on luring the illegal workers here.
> 
> So don't ever expect to solve this problem.  Not with your partisan bullshit.
> 
> Just remember this dumb shit
> 
> "Between 1999 and 2003, work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which subsequently was merged into the Homeland Security Department. The number of employers prosecuted for unlawfully employing immigrants dropped from 182 in 1999 to four in 2003, and fines collected declined from $3.6 million to $212,000, according to federal statistics.
> 
> "In 1999, the United States initiated fines against 417 companies. In 2004, it issued fine notices to three."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did the company in Mississippi KNOWINGLY hire illegals? Can it be proven beyond a reasonable doubt?  If they didn't do it knowingly, it isn't a crime on their part.
> 
> Did the workers mention on the job application they were illegals?
Click to expand...

As an employer, I'm put through serious challenges to legality of my employees. I am at the mercy of the fed govt to test the veracity of their legal claims. It is, however, difficult to believe 680 employees could have "slipped through the cracks".


----------



## Porter Rockwell

baileyn45 said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration.  But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home.  Who's hiring them?  Small business owners?  Aren't they typically Republicans?
> 
> Here are three great articles on the subject:
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon
> 
> 
> ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since Illegal Aliens are a protected class that the left refuses to deport even when they commit serious crimes like DUI, why is is such an unpardonable sin to hire them, particularly if they have Fake ID and say they are citizens and they just "plum forgot"?
> 
> 
> In actuality, to hire enough undercover ICE agents to hand out in all of our nation's Home Depot parking lots to nab citizens trying to hire illegals would be fantastically expensive as opposed to the wall
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Listen up.  That raid on that Mississippi food plant was great.  Only problem is the government didn't punish the company.  So do you think other companies doing it are going to stop?  Not if the only people who get in trouble are the workers.
> 
> You guys are truly idiots.
> 
> Why in your mind do we have to go around to all the home depot's in the country to round up illegals?  First of all, that doesn't happen in my neighborhood.  Probably doesn't happen in most neighborhoods.  So, if illegals mexicans are standing outside of your home depot, yes we should send ICE there to round them up.  Then you as a shopper don't have to worry about the lure of their cheap labor.
> 
> And I love it how you say if we don't let you build a wall from coast to coast, then companies shouldn't have to stop hiring illegals.
> 
> I get it.  You don't want companies to have to stop hiring illegals.  In fact you would never fault an illegal employer for being unpatriotic.  That's impossible because they are makers and I'm just a taker.  You worship them so much you give them a pass on luring the illegal workers here.
> 
> So don't ever expect to solve this problem.  Not with your partisan bullshit.
> 
> Just remember this dumb shit
> 
> "Between 1999 and 2003, work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which subsequently was merged into the Homeland Security Department. The number of employers prosecuted for unlawfully employing immigrants dropped from 182 in 1999 to four in 2003, and fines collected declined from $3.6 million to $212,000, according to federal statistics.
> 
> "In 1999, the United States initiated fines against 417 companies. In 2004, it issued fine notices to three."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did the company in Mississippi KNOWINGLY hire illegals? Can it be proven beyond a reasonable doubt?  If they didn't do it knowingly, it isn't a crime on their part.
> 
> Did the workers mention on the job application they were illegals?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As an employer, I'm put through serious challenges to legality of my employees. I am at the mercy of the fed govt to test the veracity of their legal claims. It is, however, difficult to believe 680 employees could have "slipped through the cracks".
Click to expand...


If you created the jobs, why do you give a rip what the government thinks about who you hire?  Are you a socialist?


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since Illegal Aliens are a protected class that the left refuses to deport even when they commit serious crimes like DUI, why is is such an unpardonable sin to hire them, particularly if they have Fake ID and say they are citizens and they just "plum forgot"?
> 
> 
> In actuality, to hire enough undercover ICE agents to hand out in all of our nation's Home Depot parking lots to nab citizens trying to hire illegals would be fantastically expensive as opposed to the wall
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The people you call "_illegal aliens_" are not a protected class.  Quite the converse was true at one time.  When the Constitution was ratified, only whites could be citizens.
> 
> The 14th Amendment was* illegally* ratified; nonetheless, it guarantees to all_ persons_ the right (sic) to liberty.  So, it makes no sense.  On the one hand your "*Supreme Law of the Land*" guarantees to all _persons_ the right (sic) of liberty and then you have laws against them coming here and you call them "_illegal aliens_" without extending the right of the_ equal protection of the laws_ to them.  If you're wondering why Americans don't have any of their Rights left, this should ring a bell with you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mexicans are considered white for that reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That does not compute.
> 
> Definitions of whiteness in the United States - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> defined by the Treaty that provided for US Jurisdiction over formerly foreign lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm afraid to ask what treaty has anything about race in it.
Click to expand...

right wing bigots in the US, made that a requirement for hispanics who are not black.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people you call "_illegal aliens_" are not a protected class.  Quite the converse was true at one time.  When the Constitution was ratified, only whites could be citizens.
> 
> The 14th Amendment was* illegally* ratified; nonetheless, it guarantees to all_ persons_ the right (sic) to liberty.  So, it makes no sense.  On the one hand your "*Supreme Law of the Land*" guarantees to all _persons_ the right (sic) of liberty and then you have laws against them coming here and you call them "_illegal aliens_" without extending the right of the_ equal protection of the laws_ to them.  If you're wondering why Americans don't have any of their Rights left, this should ring a bell with you.
> 
> 
> 
> Mexicans are considered white for that reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That does not compute.
> 
> Definitions of whiteness in the United States - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> defined by the Treaty that provided for US Jurisdiction over formerly foreign lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm afraid to ask what treaty has anything about race in it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> right wing bigots in the US, made that a requirement for hispanics who are not black.
Click to expand...


Cite your sources.  Speculation is worthless.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mexicans are considered white for that reason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That does not compute.
> 
> Definitions of whiteness in the United States - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> defined by the Treaty that provided for US Jurisdiction over formerly foreign lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm afraid to ask what treaty has anything about race in it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> right wing bigots in the US, made that a requirement for hispanics who are not black.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cite your sources.  Speculation is worthless.
Click to expand...

the treaty ratified by Congress guaranteed rights equal to that of those in Louisiana and the Floridas from the French and Spanish.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> That does not compute.
> 
> Definitions of whiteness in the United States - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> defined by the Treaty that provided for US Jurisdiction over formerly foreign lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm afraid to ask what treaty has anything about race in it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> right wing bigots in the US, made that a requirement for hispanics who are not black.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cite your sources.  Speculation is worthless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the treaty ratified by Congress guaranteed rights equal to that of those in Louisiana and the Floridas from the French and Spanish.
Click to expand...


be more specific.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> defined by the Treaty that provided for US Jurisdiction over formerly foreign lands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm afraid to ask what treaty has anything about race in it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> right wing bigots in the US, made that a requirement for hispanics who are not black.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cite your sources.  Speculation is worthless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the treaty ratified by Congress guaranteed rights equal to that of those in Louisiana and the Floridas from the French and Spanish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> be more specific.
Click to expand...

it is in the treaty.  it secured rights equal to those of the citizens in the States of the former territories owned by the French and Spain, in Louisiana and the Floridas.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm afraid to ask what treaty has anything about race in it.
> 
> 
> 
> right wing bigots in the US, made that a requirement for hispanics who are not black.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cite your sources.  Speculation is worthless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the treaty ratified by Congress guaranteed rights equal to that of those in Louisiana and the Floridas from the French and Spanish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> be more specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it is in the treaty.  it secured rights equal to those of the citizens in the States of the former territories owned by the French and Spain, in Louisiana and the Floridas.
Click to expand...

You did not tell the readers here what the name of this treaty is.


----------



## hadit

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> right wing bigots in the US, made that a requirement for hispanics who are not black.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cite your sources.  Speculation is worthless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the treaty ratified by Congress guaranteed rights equal to that of those in Louisiana and the Floridas from the French and Spanish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> be more specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it is in the treaty.  it secured rights equal to those of the citizens in the States of the former territories owned by the French and Spain, in Louisiana and the Floridas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You did not tell the readers here what the name of this treaty is.
Click to expand...


And now you're in the famous danielpalos death spiral. He heard about a treaty somewhere, saw a phrase or two lifted from it, and has no idea how to take it any further than that but will never admit such. The dance has begun.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> right wing bigots in the US, made that a requirement for hispanics who are not black.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cite your sources.  Speculation is worthless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the treaty ratified by Congress guaranteed rights equal to that of those in Louisiana and the Floridas from the French and Spanish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> be more specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it is in the treaty.  it secured rights equal to those of the citizens in the States of the former territories owned by the French and Spain, in Louisiana and the Floridas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You did not tell the readers here what the name of this treaty is.
Click to expand...

The Treaty of Guadalupe Hildalgo.


----------



## danielpalos

hadit said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cite your sources.  Speculation is worthless.
> 
> 
> 
> the treaty ratified by Congress guaranteed rights equal to that of those in Louisiana and the Floridas from the French and Spanish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> be more specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it is in the treaty.  it secured rights equal to those of the citizens in the States of the former territories owned by the French and Spain, in Louisiana and the Floridas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You did not tell the readers here what the name of this treaty is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And now you're in the famous danielpalos death spiral. He heard about a treaty somewhere, saw a phrase or two lifted from it, and has no idea how to take it any further than that but will never admit such. The dance has begun.
Click to expand...

most people get it with that much; i usually don't even need to add the rest.


----------



## Porter Rockwell

danielpalos said:


> hadit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> the treaty ratified by Congress guaranteed rights equal to that of those in Louisiana and the Floridas from the French and Spanish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> be more specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it is in the treaty.  it secured rights equal to those of the citizens in the States of the former territories owned by the French and Spain, in Louisiana and the Floridas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You did not tell the readers here what the name of this treaty is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And now you're in the famous danielpalos death spiral. He heard about a treaty somewhere, saw a phrase or two lifted from it, and has no idea how to take it any further than that but will never admit such. The dance has begun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> most people get it with that much; i usually don't even need to add the rest.
Click to expand...


Honestly, I post links that refute a LOT of positions taken by people on discussion boards.  Despite having access to the court rulings (which are the final say on what the law is) many people, including you, ignore those legal citations.  So, if you want there to be any chance I'll consider what you say... you have to give me somewhere specific to go.  Later today, I will Google that treaty and read it.  If I ever read it before, it would have been while studying law in school and that was a couple of years back.


----------



## hadit

danielpalos said:


> hadit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> the treaty ratified by Congress guaranteed rights equal to that of those in Louisiana and the Floridas from the French and Spanish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> be more specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it is in the treaty.  it secured rights equal to those of the citizens in the States of the former territories owned by the French and Spain, in Louisiana and the Floridas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You did not tell the readers here what the name of this treaty is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And now you're in the famous danielpalos death spiral. He heard about a treaty somewhere, saw a phrase or two lifted from it, and has no idea how to take it any further than that but will never admit such. The dance has begun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> most people get it with that much; i usually don't even need to add the rest.
Click to expand...


You do it because you're hoping the person will fill in the gaps you leave.


----------



## danielpalos

Porter Rockwell said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hadit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> be more specific.
> 
> 
> 
> it is in the treaty.  it secured rights equal to those of the citizens in the States of the former territories owned by the French and Spain, in Louisiana and the Floridas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You did not tell the readers here what the name of this treaty is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And now you're in the famous danielpalos death spiral. He heard about a treaty somewhere, saw a phrase or two lifted from it, and has no idea how to take it any further than that but will never admit such. The dance has begun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> most people get it with that much; i usually don't even need to add the rest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Honestly, I post links that refute a LOT of positions taken by people on discussion boards.  Despite having access to the court rulings (which are the final say on what the law is) many people, including you, ignore those legal citations.  So, if you want there to be any chance I'll consider what you say... you have to give me somewhere specific to go.  Later today, I will Google that treaty and read it.  If I ever read it before, it would have been while studying law in school and that was a couple of years back.
Click to expand...

i am claiming, American exceptionalism on this one.  

And, nothing is more supreme than our supreme law of the land, in Any conflict of laws.


----------



## danielpalos

hadit said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hadit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> be more specific.
> 
> 
> 
> it is in the treaty.  it secured rights equal to those of the citizens in the States of the former territories owned by the French and Spain, in Louisiana and the Floridas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You did not tell the readers here what the name of this treaty is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And now you're in the famous danielpalos death spiral. He heard about a treaty somewhere, saw a phrase or two lifted from it, and has no idea how to take it any further than that but will never admit such. The dance has begun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> most people get it with that much; i usually don't even need to add the rest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do it because you're hoping the person will fill in the gaps you leave.
Click to expand...

or, make it simple to know which of those of the opposing view, have no subject matter clue or subject matter Cause.


----------

