# Is racism on the rise?



## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

Seems that instead of it lessening, its getting stronger. I thought Obama being the first black (half black) president would be encouragement for the races to "settle in" and it not be as bad. And although I know its still rampant in this country, it _seemed_ to be lightening up a smidge and folks were more tolerant...or trying to be, anyway. But to me, since Obama got in office, it is rising to higher pitch. 
Or is it just me?


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## William Joyce (Mar 27, 2011)

Yes, I see this.

I think a lot of whites voted for Obama thinking they would be "forgiven" or something.  But black demands and black obnoxiousness have only gotten MORE intense.  Ditto Hispanic, etc.

I think that as whites fall toward the minority, you will see greater, not lesser, racial hostility.  Who knew that liberals were full of shit all along, and that more diversity would NOT lessen hostility?  Rather, INCREASE IT?

The decision to turn America from a white country to a non-white country will be the most impactful of our nation's history.  Whether or not whites or anyone else wants to admit it.


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## Lasher (Mar 27, 2011)

It isn't just you - white America is tiring of the antics of the Africans who will never allow a harmonious nation.


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## Lasher (Mar 27, 2011)

William Joyce said:


> Yes, I see this.
> 
> I think a lot of whites voted for Obama thinking they would be "forgiven" or something.  But black demands and black obnoxiousness have only gotten MORE intense.  Ditto Hispanic, etc.
> 
> ...



Yes, you are correct, sir!!


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## Sallow (Mar 27, 2011)

You are correct about the "pitch" part. But it's been always there. Ignorance is a powerful thing.


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## WillowTree (Mar 27, 2011)

The left reaps what she sows. Everytime a white politician, newsmedia, or group disagreed with the annointed one they were called racist. I think people are just plain sick of that behavior.


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## Rogo (Mar 27, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> The left reaps what she sows. Everytime a white politician, newsmedia, or group disagreed with the annointed one they were called racist. I think people are just plain sick of that behavior.



So, how does the Kool-Aid taste?


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## Lumpy 1 (Mar 27, 2011)

I figure every race has been persecuted, mistreated or enslaved at one time or another through history. Some pursue it or allow it as a bargaining chip for a free ride or excuse in their lives.

I'd say get over it and move on, we'll all be better off..


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## WillowTree (Mar 27, 2011)

Rogo said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > The left reaps what she sows. Everytime a white politician, newsmedia, or group disagreed with the annointed one they were called racist. I think people are just plain sick of that behavior.
> ...



which kool aid would that be? doyathink?


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## xsited1 (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Seems that instead of it lessening, its getting stronger. I thought Obama being the first black (half black) president would be encouragement for the races to "settle in" and it not be as bad. And although I know its still rampant in this country, it _seemed_ to be lightening up a smidge and folks were more tolerant...or trying to be, anyway. But to me, since Obama got in office, it is rising to higher pitch.
> Or is it just me?



Yes, it's gotten worse.  That's because much of Obama's crew is racist and the Democrat Party supports institutionalized racism.  Very sad.


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## Anguille (Mar 27, 2011)

I think people feel more comfortable talking about race and so it is talked about more. But I do not think racism is on the rise. I think it is decreasing in this country and the rise in the number of interracial marriages and domestic partnerships demonstrates that. Mixed couples just aren't that much of a big deal anymore.


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## Salt Jones (Mar 27, 2011)

I think white Americans are being persecuted just for being white. After all they have done for this country they should be treat with the reverence they deserve.


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

I voted for Obama. I believed in what he said. I believed he could do it. And it wasnt because he was black. I am very disappointed. 
I think he unintentionally set off many steps backwards when it was in the process of going forward (at least to me it was). Its like...hes the catalyst that set this new wave in motion. And that, too, disappoints me.


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## Ravi (Mar 27, 2011)

It's probably just you. People are just more vocal about it than usual.

I'm curious, though, why did you qualify Obama as_ half black_?


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## Sallow (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> I voted for Obama. I believed in what he said. I believed he could do it. And it wasnt because he was black. I am very disappointed.
> I think he unintentionally set off many steps backwards when it was in the process of going forward (at least to me it was). Its like...hes the catalyst that set this new wave in motion. And that, too, disappoints me.



It's not new..and it's always been there.


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## Sallow (Mar 27, 2011)

xsited1 said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > Seems that instead of it lessening, its getting stronger. I thought Obama being the first black (half black) president would be encouragement for the races to "settle in" and it not be as bad. And although I know its still rampant in this country, it _seemed_ to be lightening up a smidge and folks were more tolerant...or trying to be, anyway. But to me, since Obama got in office, it is rising to higher pitch.
> ...



This is fun. A new part of the Connie Lexicon.."Institutionalized Racism".


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## WillowTree (Mar 27, 2011)

Ravi said:


> It's probably just you. People are just more vocal about it than usual.
> 
> I'm curious, though, why did you qualify Obama as_ half black_?



Ravi? Is it verbotem to mention the half white of obie wan?


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

Ravi said:


> It's probably just you. People are just more vocal about it than usual.
> 
> I'm curious, though, why did you qualify Obama as_ half black_?



Because everyone keeps saying hes black this black that black black black. I wanted to remind everyone that he does have a white mother so he is half black.


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## Foxfyre (Mar 27, 2011)

When we have a segment of society that absolutely refuses to allow anybody to be color blind but looks to broadcast and condemn the slightest innuendo that could be aluded to somebody's race even if they have to make it up, racism will continue to be alive, well, and exploited for personal advantage.

As long as the political correctness people insist that we can't use certain words or phrases or graphics or context without being branded RACIST!!!!, racism will continue to be alive, well, and exploited for personal advantage.

When we are not allowed to ignore skin color or ethnicity and treat everybody the same, racism will continue to be alive, well, and exploited for personal advantage.

As long as we allow racism to be quite lucrative and profitable, racism will continue to be alive, well, and exploited for personal advantage.

President Obama could have made a difference being the first President of color elected to high office, but he and his supporters chose not to allow that to happen.  So instead of having a President who happened to be black, we were forced to have a BLACK President with all the required politically correct deference to his race built into it.  And his supporters use that to try to squash any normal criticism by shouting RACIST!!!!

And that sucks.


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## Ravi (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > It's probably just you. People are just more vocal about it than usual.
> ...


Then I guess you answered your own question.

Maybe we should come up with new labels for blacks: based on how much white blood they have in them. I doubt there is a "pure" black American, but there are many gradients of whiteness.


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## Tank (Mar 27, 2011)




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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

You said it so well, Foxfyre. Thank you very much.

Someone recently dragged me kicking and screaming out of my colorblindness. It pissed me off. Still pisses me off. I prefered to be colorblind but the continual hammering of anything said against things I felt unreasonable or fair, the lies about my own character in calling this person names with no proof because it never happened, the falling back into me being supposedly racist because I wouldnt see things their way......it yanked my blindfold off. But instead of seeing color...I saw someone completely racist themself self projecting on to me what they are.

It was not a pleasant experience.


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## Salt Jones (Mar 27, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> When we have a segment of society that absolutely refuses to allow anybody to be color blind but looks to broadcast and condemn the slightest innuendo that could be aluded to somebody's race even if they have to make it up, racism will continue to be alive, well, and exploited for personal advantage.
> 
> As long as the political correctness people insist that we can't use certain words or phrases or graphics or context without being branded RACIST!!!!, racism will continue to be alive, well, and exploited for personal advantage.
> 
> ...



Why do the Christian Conservatives act like that?


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

Ravi said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



Ravi, I am german and irish but Im caucasian. What am I to be called, then? Do I claim my german ancestry or my irish? Can I deny either one even though both run in my veins?

My point is Obama keeps being labeled as black. He is half white as well. Do we call him the BlackWhite Prez? The WhiteBlack Prez? Or just the Prez? Seems all I hear is "our first Black Prez". And he doesnt seem to mind being in that bracket either, does he?


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## Salt Jones (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> You said it so well, Foxfyre. Thank you very much.
> 
> Someone recently dragged me kicking and screaming out of my colorblindness. It pissed me off. Still pisses me off. I prefered to be colorblind but the continual hammering of anything said against things I felt unreasonable or fair, the lies about my own character in calling this person names with no proof because it never happened, the falling back into me being supposedly racist because I wouldnt see things their way......it yanked my blindfold off. But instead of seeing color...I saw someone completely racist themself self projecting on to me what they are.
> 
> It was not a pleasant experience.



I'm new to this board, can you explain your colorblindness for me, how did it work? If you were mugged how would you describe your mugger?


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## Jackson (Mar 27, 2011)

Your people... My people.... Their people.....Us.

Once we started working together, living in integrated neighborhoods, sharing the same establishments, we became more like acquaintances, then friends.  You cannot tell me I was wrong.  I saw it for myself.  We saw more things in common than things that were different.

Actually, it was our place in life that classified us, not our race.  Middle class whites and blacks had the same values and so did the upper and lower.  If anyone did a study, the would find that was right.  It had really nothing to do with skin color, but mores.

But racism continued in the lower class, for there we find entitlements and excuses.  We also find some good people who try to get their families out of that class, not be working hard, but by encouraging family members to do so.  Yet there is so much enabling, it working against the hard working people.  They system is against them.

I wish we could revamp this system, knowing it is not black, but black and white... the poor and we are enabling and not pulling up but holding down.  Let's offer free sitting, but not free food or clothes. Let's offer free training but not free shelter.  Make them work and pay to live.  Let them build self esteem/.


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

What Rev Wright taught was the complete opposite of what MLK taught. Both were black men, Salt.


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

Salt Jones said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > You said it so well, Foxfyre. Thank you very much.
> ...



I dont bother to explain myself or get in depth conversations with those who do not have an open mind. Or do you need me to explain open mind? No, it is not brain surgery.


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## Foxfyre (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> You said it so well, Foxfyre. Thank you very much.
> 
> Someone recently dragged me kicking and screaming out of my colorblindness. It pissed me off. Still pisses me off. I prefered to be colorblind but the continual hammering of anything said against things I felt unreasonable or fair, the lies about my own character in calling this person names with no proof because it never happened, the falling back into me being supposedly racist because I wouldnt see things their way......it yanked my blindfold off. But instead of seeing color...I saw someone completely racist themself self projecting on to me what they are.
> 
> It was not a pleasant experience.



And I don't have a clue whether you're black or white or something else, Grace, but I see it being done to all races.  "Whitey" isn't allowed to treat everybody the same or use certain words or metaphors that the 'black folk' can use without being branded racist.  And a black man or woman too often isn't allowed to agree with certain ideologies or philosophies without being accused of being an 'oreo' or "acting white' or being a 'discredit to his/her race' or whatever.  Those identified (wrongly in many cases) as "Latino" aren't allowed to be anti-illegal immigration without being labeled traitors.

To me that is disgusting.


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## Rogo (Mar 27, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> And I don't have a clue whether you're black or white or something else, Grace, but I see it being done to all races.  "Whitey" isn't allowed to treat everybody the same or use certain words or metaphors that the 'black folk' can use without being branded racist.  And a black man or woman too often isn't allowed to agree with certain ideologies or philosophies without being accused of being an 'oreo' or "acting white' or being a 'discredit to his/her race' or whatever.  Those identified (wrongly in many cases) as "Latino" aren't allowed to be anti-illegal immigration without being labeled traitors.
> 
> To me that is disgusting.



I feel that people's personalities shouldn't be defined by his or her skin color, but I do think that people shouldn't be using those "words or metaphors" in an antagonizing way. So, I pretty much agree with you.


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## Samson (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > It's probably just you. People are just more vocal about it than usual.
> ...



 Half-black, Half-black, Half-black, Half-black, Half-black, Half-black, Half-black, Half-black, Half-back, half back, Half-back, half back, have back, have back, have back, have back, has been, has been, has been

Happy Now?


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## Salt Jones (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> What Rev Wright taught was the complete opposite of what MLK taught. Both were black men, Salt.



How so?


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## Lumpy 1 (Mar 27, 2011)

Ravi said:


> It's probably just you. People are just more vocal about it than usual.
> 
> I'm curious, though, why did you qualify Obama as_ half black_?



Ya...I thought he was half Irish...

Sheesh .. talk about your persecution..


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## JBeukema (Mar 27, 2011)

There are several things that contribute to race remaining an issue in America:

-Affirmative Action and other government programs, almost always products of Leftist Democrats that focus on race

-The continued existence of Native American Reservations, which encourage racial/tribal isolationism and discourage integration into the greater American society

-Race baiters on the Left, including many Obama supporters who supported Obama specifically because he wasn't an old White man and who continue to play the race card when anyone questions him and the like of Al Sharpton

-The 'PC' double-standard regarding racist organizations like the National Council of the Race, which encourages ethnic cleansing and the (re-)creation of a racially nationalist political authority (see:Reconquista); the bizarre position by many self-proclaimed 'liberals' in America that every race is to demonstrate pride in their heritage _except_ for Whites. Examples include Chicanos por la Causa and Black History Month.

-The lefty refusal to demand that today's immigrants integrate into America, including learning the language

Many White Americans today notice that the White male is the only socially acceptable target for daytime comedy by members of other races. They wonder why they are being told they must learn a foreign language in their own nation when our ancestors learned the language of the country they came to for a better life. They wonder why they're expected to feel bad because a member of the same race had slaves 200 years ago and why blacks are not responsible for their actions after all this time when the Chinese seem to have moved past all they were put through.  They wonder why their lives are put at risk by forcing a fire department to hire less capable persons in order to meet racial quotas and ensure a black man isn't held to the same standards as everyone else.


Is it any surprise when some White people then react to all this by clinging to the last traces of American culture they have and seeking to camaraderie and familiarity with their own kind? It is the Left which has clearly been waging a culture war against all that is White, European, or Christian. 

The only surprise is that so few Whites have reacted or fought back. Just as antisemitism gave birth to a new Zionism in early 20th century, the recent growth seen by certain groups within the White Pride and Nativist movement is a product of the discrimination and demonization the White race faces in America today. We are constantly told that we are White and therefore we are evil and should be ashamed. We see neighborhood after neighborhood overrun by Mexican and Black gangs as society seems to fall apart. It is to be expected that some will stand up and declare that enough is enough


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Seems that instead of it lessening, its getting stronger. I thought Obama being the first black (half black) president would be encouragement for the races to "settle in" and it not be as bad. And although I know its still rampant in this country, it _seemed_ to be lightening up a smidge and folks were more tolerant...or trying to be, anyway. But to me, since Obama got in office, it is rising to higher pitch.
> Or is it just me?



There is zero change in attitudes.

The only change is you get to see it daily online.


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

Let me try to explain it to you this way, Salt. I have no other way to do it except that it was an "almost" epiphany when I first heard it...then when I experienced it first hand....my mind immediately went back to that first inkling of a lightbulb going off over my head.

Wife Swap. I watch it now and then. Couple of years ago, a woman that was extremely religious (christian) was swapped with a pagan wife. Of course, the producers knew it would be pure gold entertainment. Marguerite didnt fail to give a good show about how her beliefs ran rampant over anyone elses NOT of her faith. Marguerite was white. So was the pagan family. Ratings soared and Marguerite was seen as the worst human being on the face of the earth "representing" christians.

Ok..fast forward. The producers ask Marguerite to return, hoping for another meltdown show. So this time they paired her with a black couple. Marguerite redeemed herself this time though. No meltdown. No soared ratings. But she said something that planted a seed in my brain that just sat there, then grew when I had a recent "conversation" with someone else about black spelling bees.
Marguerite and her new "swapped black husband" was sad to watch. He needed to "teach" her of the differences in black and white. He treated her shabbily, was rude, obnoxious, and beat in to her head via words what its all about in how blacks have been downtrodden for hundreds of years. His friends and family were horrified at how HE acted. They were shamed. When Marguerite and he had their "discuss time" on the show, she said to him (shes southern, by the way) "I have never seen color in all my life. But it took just you to show me what not being colorblind means. I would have preferred to stay colorblind".

I knew how she felt and i knew what she meant. But never experiencing someone like that Swap Husband, the seed just stayed where it was in my mind. The person that watered the seed and made it sprout was yet another person who needed to "teach" the difference between black and white..but this time, it was from a white person battling for all black people and the way it was being taught was similar to what happens when someone starts thumping a bible over my head. It pisses me off and I run the other way. Which I did because I prefer to be colorblind. Which has nothing to do with describing a crime. Your mindset is part of the barb wire on that fence everyone keeps putting up. Caucasians AND blacks are both holding the wire cutters and post hole diggers.


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## Foxfyre (Mar 27, 2011)

Rogo said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > And I don't have a clue whether you're black or white or something else, Grace, but I see it being done to all races.  "Whitey" isn't allowed to treat everybody the same or use certain words or metaphors that the 'black folk' can use without being branded racist.  And a black man or woman too often isn't allowed to agree with certain ideologies or philosophies without being accused of being an 'oreo' or "acting white' or being a 'discredit to his/her race' or whatever.  Those identified (wrongly in many cases) as "Latino" aren't allowed to be anti-illegal immigration without being labeled traitors.
> ...



I think it's time to put words and metaphors as slurs behind us.  When we can tease a black person enjoying a watermelon or who is good at basketball or whatever with the same ease and good humor as we can tease an Irishman for being red headed or a Scotsman for enjoying his cups, we will have once and for all put racism behind us.  But the PC police won't allow it.  Not yet.  They DEMAND that we be conscious of race and deferrent to race and therefore demand that we all remain racist.


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## JBeukema (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> I voted for Obama. I believed in what he said


What was that? I don't remember him ever telling us what change he was going to bring. Only that he'd change things and give us hope in change. The entire pitch was little more than 'I am not an old White guy'


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## JBeukema (Mar 27, 2011)

Sallow said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> > IMEURU said:
> ...




http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-relations-racism/146155-justify-these-racist-programs.html


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

JBeukema said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > I voted for Obama. I believed in what he said
> ...



I hoped, JB. Even with my fallacies...I still have hope. Unfortunately, I can be naive as well, at times.

btw..I liked your response to the topic. When I spread some more around, I owe you a green thingie.


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## xsited1 (Mar 27, 2011)

Sallow said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> > IMEURU said:
> ...



Oh crap.  Institutional Racism.  Unfortunately, until the Democrat Party ends this, it will continue.  (Perhaps they don't want racism to end.  Just a thought.)

It's really sad when the Attorney General - Eric Holder - is a racist.  That really sets America back decades.


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## JBeukema (Mar 27, 2011)

> The 15-year-old victim, who is black, told cops the  altercation began at a nearby Macy's, where some in the group taunted  her saying she had "nice things" and acts "white," according to court  papers filed Wednesday.



Video shows Seattle security guards 'observe & report' attack, but don't aid brutally beaten girl - New York Daily News

What is 'acting White'? Getting a job? Going to school? Speaking proper English? Not smoking crack?


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## 007 (Mar 27, 2011)

Let's put it this way... if blacks can call each other ******, than why can't a white? Double standard you say? Why? Why is it OK for a black to call another black ******, but not a white, or an Asian, or anybody else? Where did this special book of rules concerning blacks come from? Why is this double standard in place and tolerated? Why are blacks the most racist people on earth?


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

Finally spread enough. Youve been greened.


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

Stop with the color. Period. No Black Spelling Bees. No Black Miss Americas. No Black Voices or Black Entertainment TV shows. No White this or that either. Stop with the color, racism ends.

I remember in high school..._some_ (not all, but few) black kids would call other black kids oreos. Black on the outside, white on the inside if they didnt clique with their group or embrace vocally Black Power or had white friends.
I scratched my head back then (1966 to 1969) and Im still scratching my head at that mindset.


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## 007 (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Finally spread enough. Youve been greened.



I do a good job of keeping anyone that "greens" me green too... gladly...


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## JBeukema (Mar 27, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > You said it so well, Foxfyre. Thank you very much.
> ...



My Nana is Spaniard and my grandfather is some fucking mexican tribe or another. Growing up, my father was an outcast because he was a 'coconut' for bothering to speak English in America.

Today he works for ICE. When I visited his office, there were only two Whites working there. Everyone else he works with is Hispanic. That made me chuckle.

At my old job, most of the people in the kitchen were Mexicans (most seemed to be mostly native blood). None of them would speak to me because I refuse to speak a foreign language; I'm an American in America. We speak English (kinda) here. One of the managers was also an outcast because, despite being a Latina, she 'acted white' (whatever the fuck that means)


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## 007 (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Stop with the color. Period. No Black Spelling Bees. No Black Miss Americas. No Black Voices or Black Entertainment TV shows. No White this or that either. Stop with the color, racism ends.



That would fine... but try and tell blacks that.


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## Samson (Mar 27, 2011)

JBeukema said:


> The only surprise is that so few Whites have reacted or fought back. .... We are constantly told that we are White and there we are evil and should be ashamed. We see neighborhood after neighborhood overrun by Mexican and Black gangs as society seems to fall apart. It is to be expected that some will stand up and declare that enough is enough/



Meh.

I'm not terribly surprised. Houston is about as mixed race a city as you'll find:







Whites don't need to react or fight back: Most simply don't find race as significant a factor in their existance.


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## Samson (Mar 27, 2011)

Pale Rider said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > Stop with the color. Period. No Black Spelling Bees. No Black Miss Americas. No Black Voices or Black Entertainment TV shows. No White this or that either. Stop with the color, racism ends.
> ...



How? If you "stop with the color," then who are you gonna tell?


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## Foxfyre (Mar 27, 2011)

JBeukema said:


> > The 15-year-old victim, who is black, told cops the  altercation began at a nearby Macy's, where some in the group taunted  her saying she had "nice things" and acts "white," according to court  papers filed Wednesday.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Shelby and Michael Steele, Thomas, Cain, Sowell, Williams, Watts, Keyes, Cosby etc. etc. etc., and many others have been visciously slurred, condemned, ridiculed, and described in the most ugly terms because they are all conservatives and outspoken against many liberal notions, concepts, and programs.  Because they are all black men, they receive special condemnation for being 'oreo', 'acting white', 'traitors to their race', 'hanky heads', "Uncle Toms', etc. etc. etc.  The personal attacks come from white and black alike.

In my view, you don't get any more racist than that when a black man is not allowed a particular perspective just because he is black.


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## JBeukema (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Marguerite and her new "swapped black husband" was sad to watch. He needed to "teach" her of the differences in black and white. He treated her shabbily, was rude, obnoxious, and beat in to her head via words what its all about in how blacks have been downtrodden for hundreds of years.



At a place I used to go, some neoleftist feminazi tried telling me how she's a black woman and I'm a White male and I have all this 'White privilege' [like being denied admission to a school because they had too many White people and needed to make their racial quotas to keep their magnet funding].

My response was, almost verbatim: 'Hello, ****** bitch. I am James. When you are more than your genitalia and the colour of your skin, come talk to me. Until then, shut the fuck up because you're not good or smart enough enough to speak to me.'

I explained to her than she's no different than the KKK (they, too, judge people based on their skin colour, same as she). Needless to say, she wasn't too happy to hear all that...


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## Foxfyre (Mar 27, 2011)

Pale Rider said:


> Let's put it this way... if blacks can call each other ******, than why can't a white? Double standard you say? Why? Why is it OK for a black to call another black ******, but not a white, or an Asian, or anybody else? Where did this special book of rules concerning blacks come from? Why is this double standard in place and tolerated? Why are blacks the most racist people on earth?



One little adjustment there.  Blacks are not the most racist people on earth.  Some black people are.  Just as whites are not the most racist people on earth.  Just some white people are.   But I agree, as long as one group is allowed to use certain words with impunity but another group is not allowed to use the same words, racism will continue to be alive, well, and exploited for personal gain.


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## Rogo (Mar 27, 2011)

Pale Rider said:


> Let's put it this way... if blacks can call each other ******, than why can't a white? Double standard you say? Why? Why is it OK for a black to call another black ******, but not a white, or an Asian, or anybody else? Where did this special book of rules concerning blacks come from? Why is this double standard in place and tolerated? Why are blacks the most racist people on earth?



Why do you want to? Is it really that big of an atrocity? There will always be criticism no matter what you so, what you do, or where you go. If you want to call a white guy ******, then go ahead (you'll look a bit silly) but if you get criticized for it then just deal with it.


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## William Joyce (Mar 27, 2011)

Samson said:


> Whites don't need to react or fight back: Most simply don't find race as significant a factor in their existance.



Life as it actually unfolds reveals otherwise.  Whites still marry each other overwhelmingly, live in white neighborhoods, go to white churches, join white clubs, just...

be white.

Ever read "Stuff White People Like"?  It's pretty funny.  Written by a lefty.  All of it frighteningly true.  Whites do, in fact, have a lot in common with each other...   that is totally foreign to other races and ethnicities.

So if whites TELL YOU that race isn't a significant factor in their lives, their actions say otherwise.

Owning a Bob Marley album does not mean "race doesn't matter" to you.


----------



## Rogo (Mar 27, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> I think it's time to put words and metaphors as slurs behind us.  When we can tease a black person enjoying a watermelon or who is good at basketball or whatever with the same ease and good humor as we can tease an Irishman for being red headed or a Scotsman for enjoying his cups, we will have once and for all put racism behind us.  But the PC police won't allow it.  Not yet.  They DEMAND that we be conscious of race and deferrent to race and therefore demand that we all remain racist.



What do you mean by the last part of your statement? How exactly is that racist? (I'm not trying to stir up anything - I'm just a bit confused).


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## Ravi (Mar 27, 2011)

The new PC: it is okay to label someone black if they are a criminal, but not if they are President.

I finally understand!


----------



## William Joyce (Mar 27, 2011)

JBeukema said:


> The only surprise is that so few Whites have reacted or fought back. Just as antisemitism gave birth to a new Zionism in early 20th century, the recent growth seen by certain groups within the White Pride and Nativist movement is a product of the discrimination and demonization the White race faces in America today. We are constantly told that we are White and there we are evil and should be ashamed. We see neighborhood after neighborhood overrun by Mexican and Black gangs as society seems to fall apart. It is to be expected that some will stand up and declare that enough is enough/



Paragraph of the day, class.

Read the whole thing, as Glenn Reynolds says.


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## Foxfyre (Mar 27, 2011)

William Joyce said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Whites don't need to react or fight back: Most simply don't find race as significant a factor in their existance.
> ...



We are all conditioned by our cultural upbringing.  When we can finally put racism behind us as a cultural norm, I think we'll probably learn to share more cultural likes and dislikes just as the English, French, Germans, and all the European cultures retained colorful parts of their heritage, cuisine, customs etc. but came to trade them around and share them and all enjoyed.   Same with many Asian cultures.  Who among us doesn't like some Thai or Chinese or Japanese or Indian food? 

Recognizing, acknowledging, celebrating our individual heritages, cuisines, customs, histories is not what makes us racist.  REQUIRING people to recognize, celebrate, and defer to certain heritages, cuisines, and customs is what makes us racist.


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

Rogo, walk up to a group of black and ask if you can call them ****** if you are white.
Walk up to a white group and ask if you can call them honky if you are black.
Now do the same as the same ethnic group you are walking up to.
Thats the problem on both sides. "Do as we say, not as we do".


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

Ravi said:


> The new PC: it is okay to label someone black if they are a criminal, but not if they are President.
> 
> I finally understand!



Keep studying.


----------



## Samson (Mar 27, 2011)

William Joyce said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Whites don't need to react or fight back: Most simply don't find race as significant a factor in their existance.
> ...



"Life" as you've described it is a function of culture, not skin pigmentation.

There are PLENTY of whites I'd rather not marry, have as neigbors, or go with to church.


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## Ravi (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > The new PC: it is okay to label someone black if they are a criminal, but not if they are President.
> ...


It's exactly what you are saying, and Joyce is agreeing with you, as is Buttemia, etc.


----------



## 007 (Mar 27, 2011)

Samson said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > IMEURU said:
> ...



That's the point. You only made the same point I did by asking a question instead of making a comment.

Point being, blacks don't want to "stop with the color," or they'd drop this "AFRICAN" American stuff, and everything else they continue that's for "THEIR RACE ONLY."


----------



## 52ndStreet (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Seems that instead of it lessening, its getting stronger. I thought Obama being the first black (half black) president would be encouragement for the races to "settle in" and it not be as bad. And although I know its still rampant in this country, it _seemed_ to be lightening up a smidge and folks were more tolerant...or trying to be, anyway. But to me, since Obama got in office, it is rising to higher pitch.
> Or is it just me?



The Obama Presidency is nothing but one big multi conspiratorial scam. 
One objective was to pacify, or to brainwash blacks, and other minorities into thinking 
that America had eliminated racism, and that we are all equal. They wanted to disarm 
blacks and other minorities, in America and the rest of the world.

In actuality, America is still run by the Old, and young white boy network.
And the men of the unseen hands. 

"There was never any "Hope" or "Change" with Barack Obama.
"Its all a hoax, and he spent the spare change on the Wall Street Bankers"!


----------



## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

Ravi said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



Everyone is entitled to their opinion, Ravi. If some agree or disagree, that is allowed the last I heard. "The president is blac"k. That is how he is described to the world at large. To me...he was a big hope. A dream. Someone that COULD and WOULD do what he said. I didnt vote for him because he had a great tan or was tall or had big ears or a winning smile. I voted for him because I believed him. And like I said..I am disappointed.


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## Tank (Mar 27, 2011)




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## Samson (Mar 27, 2011)

Pale Rider said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...



No, my comment was designed to illustrate that is is impossible to "stop with the color."

Its a little naive to think that if you met me, you couldn't tell what color I was any more than not notice the Octopus on my head.


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## JBeukema (Mar 27, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> We are all conditioned by our cultural upbringing.


Yes _but_ culture builds upon nature and is itself a product thereof

Even Babies Discriminate: A NurtureShock Excerpt. - Newsweek

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Sociobiology-New-Synthesis-Twenty-Fifth-Anniversary/dp/0674002350"]Amazon.com: Sociobiology: The New Synthesis, Twenty-Fifth Anniversary Edition (9780674002357): Edward O. Wilson: Books[/ame]


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## Ravi (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > IMEURU said:
> ...




You're a phony stormfront troll...at least Joyce and Tank can admit to their racist attitude. 

You think race should only be mentioned if someone is a criminal. If they are successful they should attribute it to their white genes.

Sadly, many of our so called "conservatives" believe as you do and are just as phony.


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## jillian (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > IMEURU said:
> ...



and i voted for him because he wasn't john mccain. i voted for him so he wouldn't put anyone else on the bench to destroy the high court. i voted for him so sarah palin wouldn't be anywhere near the white house.

i got those things. am i sorry that he's continued so many of baby bush's failed policies. 




yes.

would my vote have changed if i knew that?




hell no.


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## Foxfyre (Mar 27, 2011)

Samson said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...



But isn't it possible that we might get to a point that we could notice the octupus without being offensive?  That we could use the same words, the same language, share the same jokes, use the same teasing insults or affectionate slurs even if you had an octupus on your head and I didn't?

Is it a pipe dream to think it is possible to be who we are, everybody be able to accept that we are who we are including skin color, ethnicity, freckles, buck teeth, skinny, fat, or whatever without having to walk on eggshells and measure every word and metaphor lest we offend somebody?


----------



## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

Ravi said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



Thank you for the neg. You are entitled to your opinion, Ravi and can express it in any way you see fit.
However...would you please explain how it is racist to describe a criminal that hurt someone or myself so the police can apprehend that person(s)? And also, while youre at it, if you would be so kind as to where I stated blacks are only successful if they have white genes?


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

Oh, and one more question, Ravi. Do you consider...say.... Bill Cosby a racist?


----------



## 007 (Mar 27, 2011)

Samson said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...



And that is also precisely what I meant when I said... "try telling that to the blacks." We arrived at the same conclusion by different avenues.


----------



## Samson (Mar 27, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> having to walk on eggshells and measure every word and metaphor lest we offend somebody?



You mean, we could all be impolite?

Yes that would be wonderful.


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

I wonder if Cosby is in Stormfront too.


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## The Gadfly (Mar 27, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> When we have a segment of society that absolutely refuses to allow anybody to be color blind but looks to broadcast and condemn the slightest innuendo that could be aluded to somebody's race even if they have to make it up, racism will continue to be alive, well, and exploited for personal advantage.
> 
> As long as the political correctness people insist that we can't use certain words or phrases or graphics or context without being branded RACIST!!!!, racism will continue to be alive, well, and exploited for personal advantage.
> 
> ...


I think Foxfyre nailed a lot of it right here. Like it or not "the race problem" has become a cottage industry for some on both sides of the divide. It's sad really because some of the people doing this once tilted at REAL dragons, heroically; but now that the real racist beasts are far fewer, they set up a straw dragon, and tilt at that....and then expect praise (and money, or votes) for doing it!.

Then there's Obama; a lot of Black people are heavily emotionally invested in the man's presidency(somewhat understandable) but have the idea he's supposed to be THEIR president, rather than America's president. Then, when someone doesn't like the man's politics, in their minds, that can't be true; it HAS to be about race.....it just HAS to be, because if it isn't, it might mean Obama isn't perfect, and that is not what those particular people want to hear. If THEIR president is not the greatest of all time, they feel demeaned and threatened.

I can't help feeling, that it didn't have to be this way. Back during the campaign, Obama made one of the most sensible speeches on race in America I've ever heard a politician make, and with a foot in both camps, so to speak, and a ton of political capital, he was in a unique position to start a real national conversation that would face the subject squarely and fairly. That speech would have been a perfect starting point...but it never happened. Other things got in the way, and it apparently became more advantageous to use the charge of "racism" to deflect criticism. One man, Barack Obama, could have stopped a lot of that, simply by disavowing it. That would have taken great wisdom, and great courage, but he was in a position to do it....and in the end he wasn't quite a big enough man to do it. Maybe that's expecting a level of greatness few men have; it's no sin for a man to fall short of that...but one can wish.

I don't think, I know, that this country can heal those wounds; I've seen a lot of them heal during my lifetime. Sometimes, it's hard to realize how far we really have come, in just a few decades, but we have. It's really NOT 1968 any more, and we can all thank God for it! That doesn't mean, that there aren't left over wounds and grievances, on both sides. It doesn't mean, that we've all figured out how to be fair, without being deferential or know where the line is, between caring, and patronizing or pandering. I think a lot of us aren't sure, what's reasonable to expect from one another, and what isn't. Some, (on both sides) aren't trying, and that makes it even harder for the rest of us to struggle with. 

It's ironic, that the very fact that real racism in America has declined enough, for us to elect a Black man president, and the historic significance of that, has also thrown race squarely back into the political arena, with all the negative emotions that implies, and right now, that's ripped the scabs right off some of those old wounds, at least for a while. Maybe, when all the ruckus dies down, we can get back to doing what we were-inching our way toward a day, when skin color really doesn't matter any more, to any of us.


----------



## Tank (Mar 27, 2011)




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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

I sincerely wish to thank those who have the ability to "get" what Im trying to understand and express and wonder about. Even those who dont agree with my intentions but still "get" my confusion on the whys and wherefores. So..thank you.


----------



## Salt Jones (Mar 27, 2011)

Pale Rider said:


> Let's put it this way... if blacks can call each other ******, than why can't a white? Double standard you say? Why? Why is it OK for a black to call another black ******, but not a white, or an Asian, or anybody else? Where did this special book of rules concerning blacks come from? Why is this double standard in place and tolerated? Why are blacks the most racist people on earth?



You are free to go up to as many black people as you want and call them ****** to their faces, you have freedom of speech.


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## FuelRod (Mar 27, 2011)

Ravi said:


> The new PC: it is okay to label someone black if they are a criminal, but not if they are President.
> 
> I finally understand!



Define irony.


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

Tank said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN5StQAr7n0



He didnt have much of an enthusiastic audience, did he, Tank? Which should make a seed grow in your head like one was planted in mine. Not all are like that guy. Hes just a black man in a kkk mindset.

Tank...let me ask you a simple question, if I may? In your opinion.....do YOU think all blacks should be *exterminated*?


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## Tank (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> I sincerely wish to thank those who have the ability to "get" what Im trying to understand and express and wonder about. Even those who dont agree with my intentions but still "get" my confusion on the whys and wherefores. So..thank you.


From what I understand, the more contact you have had with blacks the more racist you have found them to be.


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## Tank (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Tank...let me ask you a simple question, if I may? In your opinion.....do YOU think all blacks should be *exterminated*?


No


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

A scant few Ive met are racist, yes. Most are not. Maybe the majority I* have* been around have the same color blindness that I do.


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

Tank said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > Tank...let me ask you a simple question, if I may? In your opinion.....do YOU think all blacks should be *exterminated*?
> ...



Thank you. I didnt think so. There are extremists in every race. That dude in the vid is one of them.


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## xsited1 (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> A scant few Ive met are racist, yes. Most are not. Maybe the majority I* have* been around have the same color blindness that I do.



Do you live in the South?


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

No. California.


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## Salt Jones (Mar 27, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> JBeukema said:
> 
> 
> > > The 15-year-old victim, who is black, told cops the  altercation began at a nearby Macy's, where some in the group taunted  her saying she had "nice things" and acts "white," according to court  papers filed Wednesday.
> ...



Is that your view? Does it upset you to see "your" blacks treated this way?

P.S. Study the lives of Bill Cosby and JC Watts before you lump them into the same  category as those buffoons. And the term we blacks use is "handkerchief heads", not "hanky heads".


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## Lasher (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN5StQAr7n0
> ...



Just the uppity ones.


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## WillowTree (Mar 27, 2011)

Tank said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN5StQAr7n0














Now! If ever anyone on this earth sounds like Adoph Hitler that asshole does.


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## William Joyce (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> No. California.



How's it feel to be in the minority?


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

William Joyce said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > No. California.
> ...



Im survivin'. Hows it feel in your neck of the woods?

I grew up in the valley. Our little town was predominantly hispanic, filipino, black, white..in that order.
My first love was a puerto rican named Joe. Sigh. Memories. But I digress. Sorry. Carry on.


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## xsited1 (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> No. California.



The South will open your eyes to black racism.  I was raised in Seattle, so it was a major culture shock for me when I moved to Arkansas.


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## The Gadfly (Mar 27, 2011)

xsited1 said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > A scant few Ive met are racist, yes. Most are not. Maybe the majority I* have* been around have the same color blindness that I do.
> ...



I do, and I've had the same experience she has. Why do you ask?


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## xsited1 (Mar 27, 2011)

The Gadfly said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> > IMEURU said:
> ...



When the school board in Little Rock is openly racist towards non-black kids, you'll know what I mean.  Where do you live?


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

I was considering moving to missouri a few years back. Never did, but I was on tenderhooks. Not being around blatant racism such as what Ive witnessed these past years as an "older woman", I worried about racism there. Not about blacks being that way towards me. More about how I would deal with it if someone caucasian was rude to blacks in my presence. Believe it or not, I dont always fart rainbows and unicorns. I have a temper. The culture shock was somthing I was aware I would experience. Even the real estate agent and I got into a big fight on the phone. She assured me there were no blacks near the home I was considering. I lost it. Not the house. My temper.


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## The Gadfly (Mar 27, 2011)

xsited1 said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> > xsited1 said:
> ...



South Carolina, and I have to say, while I've seen some of what you describe, it's definitely not a majority sentiment among Black people here. Part of the difference may be, that there's a lot more ill-feeling from the Jim Crow era down here; a lot more people with family members who had first hand experience with some of the uglier aspects of that. It does tend to leave some lingering bitterness, though I have to say, I've seen a lot of that fade over time, compared to how it used to be. Then again I've lived here all my life, (except for my time in the service), so my perspective may be different.


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## xsited1 (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> I was considering moving to missouri a few years back. Never did, but I was on tenderhooks. Not being around blatant racism such as what Ive witnessed these past years as an "older woman", I worried about racism there. Not about blacks being that way towards me. More about how I would deal with it if someone caucasian was rude to blacks in my presence. Believe it or not, I dont always fart rainbows and unicorns. I have a temper. The culture shock was somthing I was aware I would experience. Even the real estate agent and I got into a big fight on the phone. She assured me there were no blacks near the home I was considering. I lost it. Not the house. My temper.



Missouri isn't so bad.  A great great grandfather of mine was living in Arkansas during the time of the Civil War and moved to Missouri because of the racism and fought for the Union.  I guess I'm severely intolerant of racism wherever it comes from.  That's why when people throw around the word 'racist', they'd either better be joking or have a real good reason for doing so, and yet another reason why I despise Obama and the racists in his cabinet.


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## xsited1 (Mar 27, 2011)

The Gadfly said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> > The Gadfly said:
> ...



That's good to hear.  I have a very diverse set of friends and coworkers and as I mentioned in another post, I am very intolerant of racist behavior.  We've got a lot of racists in Arkansas.


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## Salt Jones (Mar 27, 2011)

xsited1 said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > I was considering moving to missouri a few years back. Never did, but I was on tenderhooks. Not being around blatant racism such as what Ive witnessed these past years as an "older woman", I worried about racism there. Not about blacks being that way towards me. More about how I would deal with it if someone caucasian was rude to blacks in my presence. Believe it or not, I dont always fart rainbows and unicorns. I have a temper. The culture shock was somthing I was aware I would experience. Even the real estate agent and I got into a big fight on the phone. She assured me there were no blacks near the home I was considering. I lost it. Not the house. My temper.
> ...



The irony in your post is ironic.


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

Ive been sitting here eating my taco smell burrito and I have to say the most rampant racism I ever really experienced more than once is in Maui. I love that island. I have been there many many times since its just across the pond, so to speak. Last trip was a few years ago. I fear its my last because I just cant afford it any more. 
In all the times Ive visited that beautiful paradise, I have always experienced ridicule by the locals for being a haolie.


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

xsited1 said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > I was considering moving to missouri a few years back. Never did, but I was on tenderhooks. Not being around blatant racism such as what Ive witnessed these past years as an "older woman", I worried about racism there. Not about blacks being that way towards me. More about how I would deal with it if someone caucasian was rude to blacks in my presence. Believe it or not, I dont always fart rainbows and unicorns. I have a temper. The culture shock was somthing I was aware I would experience. Even the real estate agent and I got into a big fight on the phone. She assured me there were no blacks near the home I was considering. I lost it. Not the house. My temper.
> ...



I was in to geneology for awhile and traced back my roots. Most were from Austria and England or Ireland..depending on which line I was following. They settled in NC, SC, Arkansas and Missouri. My grandparents came to california..both sets...one set from ark, one set from missouri ala a germany colony established in missouri by one set of great grandparents, etc. Then the two in question from each sets set met, got hitched and voila. I was born.

Friends online that I talk to on the phone said I sound like an arkie twang with valley girl mixed in.


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## Foxfyre (Mar 27, 2011)

When I was Exec of a large social agency in Kansas, the parent organization (based in DC) adopted an imperative "Eliminate racism wherever it exists and by any means necessary".  It was written in large crooked black letters on a white background and displayed on bumper stickers, as a slogan on envelopes and flyers, and imprinted on banners at all official functions.

My staff and I didn't like it because the memories of the Watts riots, MLK's assassination, and other painful chapters in the civil rights movement were still very much in our memory and we thought the slogan too militant and aggressive to be a good thing, but we dutifully tacked it up on the bulletin board and forgot about it.

So, when we had our annual review from national, they wanted to know how many black people were members.  We came up with sort of a number because we really weren't tracking it all that close and they wanted to know why so few?  I said the populaton of the entire county was only 2% black.

I was informed that we were a racist town or there would be more black people there to recruit.  They wouldn't accept that all the counties in north central Kansas had been settled mostly by families and groups from Germany, Austria, Sweden and other Scandanavian countries with each little community having a festival celebrating old world festivals now and then--all were great fun.

Our vice mayor was a black man, the director of city human resources, one of my best friends in the world until his death a few years ago, was a black man, and other black people held prominent positions in town.  One of our biggest donors was a black family who made it big in the restaurant business.   

Not good enough they said.  We had to initiate a citywide campaign immediate to identify and eliminate whatever was keeping black people from being attracted to our town.

Well I balked.  My staff supported me as they didn't want to have to stop being color blind either, but I left that organization some months later.  Just wasn't worth it.

And as long as there are those who make it their business to look for racism under every rock, there will be racism.  It's simply too profitable to give up.


----------



## ClosedCaption (Mar 27, 2011)

Lumpy 1 said:


> I figure every race has been persecuted, mistreated or enslaved at one time or another through history. Some pursue it or allow it as a bargaining chip for a free ride or excuse in their lives.
> 
> I'd say get over it and move on, we'll all be better off..



Bullshit...Slavery for other races was a very different deal than with blacks.  For example throughout history many races have been slaves, but for very different reasons.  Some were repaying a debt, some were criminals etc.

so while you are correct that every race has been mistreated or enslaved its a very different levels.

Sort of like saying a Pool and the Ocean are both full of water...whats the difference?


----------



## Lumpy 1 (Mar 27, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> > I figure every race has been persecuted, mistreated or enslaved at one time or another through history. Some pursue it or allow it as a bargaining chip for a free ride or excuse in their lives.
> ...



Bullshit .. back at ya.. If your trying to say black slavery was worse than other... you're full of shit..


----------



## xsited1 (Mar 27, 2011)

Salt Jones said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> > IMEURU said:
> ...



Not another troll.  Are you a Ravi sock-puppet?  You've got that same trollish 'feel' to your post.


----------



## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

And there it is again. The "who was most ill treated", like its some kind of badge to wear. The Jews have been persecuted for centuries so Im pretty sure they "win". 

Isnt that kind of warped thinking on trying to figure out who was treated the worst?


----------



## Foxfyre (Mar 27, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> > I figure every race has been persecuted, mistreated or enslaved at one time or another through history. Some pursue it or allow it as a bargaining chip for a free ride or excuse in their lives.
> ...



Well while they in no way condone or defend slavery of any kind among ANY people, both Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams count themselves blessed because somebody dragged their ancesters over here on a slave ship.  As a result both were born American citizens.  Even growing up under segregation, both were able to get an education that allowed them to compete with anybody, and both have distinguished themselves with PhDs, prolific writings, and numerous awards and honors.

Had their ancesters been left in Africa, they most likely would have been born in Africa to dirt poor, uneducated people with none of the opportunities they have enjoyed.

And while it is true that there are different kinds of slavery, I imagine none of us do not descend from people who at one time experienced the worst kinds of slavery.

That was then.  This is now.

We either treat people as victims because of their ancestry and require them to see themselves differently because of their ancestry or we accept everybody as just Americans and let them succeed and fail on their own merits just as if they were as good as anybody else.  I think the non racist doesn't see anybody as 'not as good as everybody else'.   In my opinion it is arrogant and racist to assume black people need whitey to protect and take care of them.

We've already fought that war.   We should be enjoying the peace now instead of continuing to fight it.


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## Lumpy 1 (Mar 27, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> > Lumpy 1 said:
> ...



Well .. it's kind of the sugar coated version of what I said..... you're Sweet..


----------



## Salt Jones (Mar 27, 2011)

xsited1 said:


> Salt Jones said:
> 
> 
> > xsited1 said:
> ...



Nope, I'm a black man who spent 20 years in the military and I'm a Socialist/Liberal. I came to this board because of the open rules. But what does my profile have to do with the irony contained in your post?


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## JBeukema (Mar 27, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> > I figure every race has been persecuted, mistreated or enslaved at one time or another through history. Some pursue it or allow it as a bargaining chip for a free ride or excuse in their lives.
> ...



Who sold the black slaves to the Whites?

Hint: other tribes of blacks


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## ClosedCaption (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> And there it is again. The "who was most ill treated", like its some kind of badge to wear. The Jews have been persecuted for centuries so Im pretty sure they "win".
> 
> Isnt that kind of warped thinking on trying to figure out who was treated the worst?



Well, it's kind of hard to respond to a post that states that blacks were slaves like everyone else without pointing out the differences.  I mean, should I just agree even it is false just so you wont put a label around my neck?

What is funny is that at the same time you chastise one person for taking the "we were treated worse" arguement (as you put it) you turn and say the Jews "win" in the "who were treated worse" catagory.

So I'm wrong for saying blacks were treated worse than other slaves throughout history and you're not wrong because you say Jews were treated worse?  Ahhh, that good ol double standard...


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

JBeukema said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> > Lumpy 1 said:
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That about sums it up. At least from my understanding. So who are the "evil" people here? The ones that warred with other tribes and won with conquering said tribe and selling them.....or those who were handy to buy those captives off of them? Id say both.


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## boedicca (Mar 27, 2011)

Racism is everywhere.


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## Dot Com (Mar 27, 2011)

Reminds me of this and the contemporary tea partiers bellowing about states rights :
Southern strategy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In American politics, the Southern strategy refers to the late-20th century Republican Party strategy of winning elections in Southern states by exploiting anti-African American racism among Southern white voters and appealing to states' rights.


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## Samson (Mar 27, 2011)

boedicca said:


> Racism is everywhere.



Alot like dust.


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > And there it is again. The "who was most ill treated", like its some kind of badge to wear. The Jews have been persecuted for centuries so Im pretty sure they "win".
> ...



No, blacks were not slaves like everyone else. They were OWNED. That makes it pretty damn bad. But the Irish werent welcomed with open arms either..nor were the italians. All lived in shanties, starved, died of disease. But at least they could leave whenever and wherever they wanted. 
No, you are not wrong for saying blacks were treated worse. Im saying youre wrong to...whats the word I want?....to make it seem _less_ of what others experienced as well just by comparing one evil to another. Thats not how I want it to come out, but I cant think of how to express it. Maybe youll get what Im trying to say. Maybe not.

My comment about the jews was an example. Name me a group of peoples who have suffered for so long. Make me understand your point.


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## Lumpy 1 (Mar 27, 2011)

How can a person give up a lifetime of thinking a certain way, having an epiphany, correcting their assumptions and moving on...? 

Sorry folks.. the dinosaurs have to die off.. on this racist one...


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## ClosedCaption (Mar 27, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


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Thats great and if I made any mention of being left in Africa, you would have a great point.  That's a separate issue which I know we'd have different opinions on but like I said, thats a different topic all together.

See....the see everyone as Americans part is hilarious.  What Italian isnt proud of their heritage?  What Irishman is expected to drop the irish label?  none...but why do so many from outside of the black race are requesting only the blacks do it?  That's what I disagree with....No one else is requested to drop who they are....Hell, they celebrate it!  

But if a black person does it....someone who is not black wants it to stop...why?  Why do you want to stop me from identifing myself the way I want too?  Who knows better than I do?  You?

Thats the question


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## JBeukema (Mar 27, 2011)

There's no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism


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## JBeukema (Mar 27, 2011)

_Any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is  ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready_
_ -_Woodrow Wilson​


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## xsited1 (Mar 27, 2011)

Salt Jones said:


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And what irony would that be?  Do tell.


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## Ravi (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


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 As I said before, race only matters to you, and Tank, Joyce, xsitedone, etc...if you can use it as a reason someone is a criminal. But if someone is successful, it is because they are part white.


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## xsited1 (Mar 27, 2011)

Ravi said:


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  The master troller and closet racist comes out.  

I figured you were close.


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## ClosedCaption (Mar 27, 2011)

JBeukema said:


> There's no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism



Sure it is....Irish-American, Italian-American etc...

If the hyphen is what you dont like, hey I cant do anything about it.  It's a punctuation used to connect words.  They're sort of like dashes...now dashes!  I hate those sons of bitches!


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## Ravi (Mar 27, 2011)

JBeukema said:


> There's no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism


Why? I am proudly Irish-American.


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## dilloduck (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Rogo, walk up to a group of black and ask if you can call them ****** if you are white.
> Walk up to a white group and ask if you can call them honky if you are black.
> Now do the same as the same ethnic group you are walking up to.
> Thats the problem on both sides. "Do as we say, not as we do".



Is this the epiphany you had because that last I saw you, you were stomping out of here in a snit and outraged at the fact that people were freely allowed to speak racists thoughts ?


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## JBeukema (Mar 27, 2011)

Why am I not surprised the _ravi_ng loon accusing everyone else of racism is the same one ready to plunge a dagger into the heart of America?

Unless you have dual citizenship, there's no such thing as an Irish-American


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## Ravi (Mar 27, 2011)

JBeukema said:


> Why am I not surprised the _ravi_ng loon accusing everyone else of racism is the same one ready to plunge a dagger into the heart of America?
> 
> Unless you have dual citizenship, there's no such thing as an Irish-American


Why am I not surprised that Buttemia is stupid?


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

I gotta ask. This bastardization of names just throws me for a loop.

Who is Buttemia?


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## WillowTree (Mar 27, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > And there it is again. The "who was most ill treated", like its some kind of badge to wear. The Jews have been persecuted for centuries so Im pretty sure they "win".
> ...



You are aware that the Africans enslaved generations of Jews are you knot?


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

Ravi said:


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Huh???


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## WillowTree (Mar 27, 2011)

Ravi said:


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Untrue and you know it.


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## JBeukema (Mar 27, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> You are aware that the Africans enslaved generations of Jews are you knot?


I'm willing to bet none of those alive today (Africans or Jews) were involved


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


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Actually, that _is_ a good question. 
Maybe because there isnt such a division of those you mentioned with having ONLY Irish Beauty Pageants or Irish Voices or Irish Only Spelling Bees, etc etc etc? Why cant each race be proud or content and still be American? A good stew isnt just meat and salt. It has garlic, pepper, other seasonings, taters, carrots.
Division is division. There is a line there somewhere. I just dont know where it is, or how it can be "fixed" so the line is observed but not so divisional. I think. Hell I dunno. Ill have to muse on it cuz I suck at expressing myself most of the time.


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

Ah. Epiphany. Buttemia is JB. 
Sorry, but stupid he is not. Dude has his shit together from what Ive been reading. You, Ravi, on the other hand...you seem kinda "out there". And you never answered my question. Shall I repeat it for you or did you deflect for a reason?


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

dilloduck said:


> IMEURU said:
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> 
> > Rogo, walk up to a group of black and ask if you can call them ****** if you are white.
> ...



I didnt stomp. I flounced. 
I was enlightened, lets say. And the teacher is the one that made me run the other way. The other way was back here. That ok with you or do I need permission first?

And to clarify....I was sorta surprised at the racism here that is expressed in certain ways. Maybe Im becoming numb to it though.


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## dilloduck (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


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Just curious about the radical about face. Carry on. No one needs my permission to do jack around here.


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## WillowTree (Mar 27, 2011)

JBeukema said:


> WillowTree said:
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> 
> > You are aware that the Africans enslaved generations of Jews are you knot?
> ...



And I'm willing to bet the same is true in America.


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## JBeukema (Mar 27, 2011)

WillowTree said:


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try explaining that the the Dems


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

dilloduck said:


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Not really an about face. I STILL think its wrong to have an all black only spelling bee just as I think it would be wrong to have white only spelling bees. (for examples). But I also try to keep an open mind while keeping it intact at the same time. Dont ask. Even I dont know what the hell I just said.


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## WillowTree (Mar 27, 2011)

JBeukema said:


> WillowTree said:
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They have a mindset against facts.


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## WillowTree (Mar 27, 2011)

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The worst cases of racism are leveled against African Americans who are Republicans.


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## Polk (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Seems that instead of it lessening, its getting stronger. I thought Obama being the first black (half black) president would be encouragement for the races to "settle in" and it not be as bad. And although I know its still rampant in this country, it _seemed_ to be lightening up a smidge and folks were more tolerant...or trying to be, anyway. But to me, since Obama got in office, it is rising to higher pitch.
> Or is it just me?



It's not just you, but I wouldn't be concerned about it. As the population trends toward majority-minority, you're going to see more lashing out. Several possible outcomes in the longer run:

- People get over silly social constructs like race and actually behave like mature adults.

- Our politics breaks down into ethnic tribal conflicts.

- In what I consider the most likely outcome, "white" is redefined once again to include light-skinned Hispanics. It wouldn't be the first time this happens. Originally, the Scots and the Irish were not considered white. Later, southern Europeans "became" white.


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## Polk (Mar 27, 2011)

Alternatively, the new fault-line could be religious struggle.


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## jillian (Mar 27, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again. The worst cases of racism are leveled against African Americans who are Republicans.



yeah, i know the rightrwingnuts like saying that... 

because, of course, you can't criticize the politics of people without it being racist or sexist in rightwingnutworld.


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## ClosedCaption (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


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It's a phrase in the AA community called being able to pass.  Irish would be able to pass as white so as long as they were not found out they could participate in the white only beauty pagents or spelling bees.  Some blacks were able to "pass" and were allowed to participate in those white only events.  Blacks instead of standing outside of the door decided to make their own...you know...Do for themselves.  Take the bull by the horns, pull themselves up by their own bootstraps and make something for themselves.

That's not a bad thing...nor is the Jewish Anti-Defamation League or the National Italian American Foundation or any other.  Strangely, the only problem anyone has is with Blacks.  Now why is that?


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## ClosedCaption (Mar 27, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again. The worst cases of racism are leveled against African Americans who are Republicans.



You should really get out more if you think _that_ is the worst case of racism


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## dilloduck (Mar 27, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


> IMEURU said:
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It's because you aren't paying attention. Haven't you ever seen the anti-semitic battles that go on here ?


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## Lumpy 1 (Mar 27, 2011)

This threads a lot like the, "Hokey Pokey"

You shake it to the left, you shake it to the right...


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## Foxfyre (Mar 27, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


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I don't care what you celebrate.  I'm such a mutt myself I don't have any clearly defining ethnic characteristic to celebrate so I just celebrate them all.  If you have been following the thread at all you would have seen that I think it is great fun for everybody to celebrate their own and everybody else's ethnic, cultural, or historical heritage.  I didn't suggest at all that you or ANYBODY not do that.

I DO say that we do people no favors of any kind when we demand they be treated differently because of their ethnic or cultural background or history.  And your previous posts suggested that we should do just that for black people because some of their ancesters were once slaves.  I see that as a racist view--not malicious or hateful racism or anything other than well intentioned--but it is racist because it requires us to separate out a whole group of people as somehow different than everybody else.  I think that is wrong.


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## ClosedCaption (Mar 27, 2011)

dilloduck said:


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No but I would assume that more will come to the defense of Jews than of AA's


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


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I wish I could answer your question (which I bolded so you would know what I am addressing). I dont have the answer and dont think anyone else does either except just posing their own opinions. Im familiar with the "able to pass".Pre civil war and afterwards as well, being able to "pass" meant they could indeed be "accepted" within the community with less barriers. But the point is..and the problem is...most of us living today did not own slaves or came from families that were slaveholders. But those being "left out" or felt its "our fault" are just bearing the weight of what happened back then. What happened then is beyond our control. What happens now IS in our control. So stop with the division on all sides. Be proud of who you are and from whence you came...but also embrace those who may be different but are still the same RACE. The human race. Or is that just a pipe dream? 
I truly thought things were getting better. Then again..everyone is so angry all the time, who isnt pissed off at the world in general?


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## syrenn (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> I voted for Obama. I believed in what he said. I believed he could do it. And it wasnt because he was black. I am very disappointed.
> I think he unintentionally set off many steps backwards when it was in the process of going forward (at least to me it was). Its like...hes the catalyst that set this new wave in motion. And that, too, disappoints me.





What did you think would happen when the obama machine was driven to "turn out the black vote"

You say what happened in this state.


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## dilloduck (Mar 27, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


> dilloduck said:
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Why ?  and how about Hispanic racists ?


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

syrenn said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > I voted for Obama. I believed in what he said. I believed he could do it. And it wasnt because he was black. I am very disappointed.
> ...



And now Im paying for it with my disappointment.


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## syrenn (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> syrenn said:
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So you had no idea that his "party" was running a racist agenda? They were rather blatant about "turning out the black vote". It was in the news all the time about blacks who had never voted a day in their lives....but were voting because obama was black...and black alone.  You should have paid more attention and a little less about the feel good rose colored glasses they wanted everyone to wear.


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## Foxfyre (Mar 27, 2011)

syrenn said:


> IMEURU said:
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A lot of very bright folks voted for Obama though and didn't see the 'turn out the black vote' as all that sinister a thing.  It was a GOOD thing to get people interested and involved.  Little did we know there were less than pure motives and dubious methods being used.  Being a former media type myself, I was perhaps more jaded and skeptical than most.  I read his books and those popped up some red flags.  Evenmoreso when I checked up on his history and what he had been doing with his life up to the 2008 campaign.  So I didn't vote for him even though McCain was my LAST choice to be the GOP nominee.  Those without the time and tenaciousness depended on the media to inform them.  And the media was very very kind to Barack Hussein Obama once he was the official nominee.


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

syrenn said:


> IMEURU said:
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Shoulda woulda coulda. I know.
And no..I didnt consider it a racist agenda. I was caught up with them in the "hope" department. Doesn hurt to always have hope. Well, its not supposed to hurt.


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## JBeukema (Mar 27, 2011)

If race is a social construct, how do you explain SNPs and Bidil?


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## syrenn (Mar 27, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> syrenn said:
> 
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> > IMEURU said:
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I agree it was a good thing to try and get the black population into the political areas. I agree that it is a good thing for them to vote....as it is one of their rights. 

However, getting anyone to vote for someone else _just _because skin color is racist bullshit.


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## syrenn (Mar 27, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> syrenn said:
> 
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I hope he paid some very well for that slogan. It was one of the best i have ever heard.


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## Foxfyre (Mar 27, 2011)

syrenn said:


> Foxfyre said:
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> > syrenn said:
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Sure it is.  But you're dealing with politicians here Syrenn.  When is the last time you saw a politician turn down a vote wherever and however he could get it?


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## syrenn (Mar 27, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> syrenn said:
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No i have never seen a politician turn down a vote. But to encourage a race vote..and a race vote alone is sickening and racist. 

What if McCain had come out with a "turn out the white vote" champaign to counter....just saying.


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## Foxfyre (Mar 27, 2011)

syrenn said:


> Foxfyre said:
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He would have been crucified as a racist had he done that.

But as I have repeatedly said in this thread, there is incentive to keep racism alive and well because there are those who exploit it for personal gain.  And there are both white and black people who are guilty of that and they don't care who gets hurt in the process.


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## xsited1 (Mar 27, 2011)

JBeukema said:


> If race is a social construct, how do you explain SNPs and Bidil?



I've heard that and it's totally ridiculous.  It's like saying that boys and girls are the same, but were made different by the way they were raised.  This crap is even taught at the college level.


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## xsited1 (Mar 27, 2011)

dilloduck said:


> ClosedCaption said:
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There's a lot of racism between hispanics and blacks.  One of my best friends is Mexican and he will not rent any of his properties to blacks.  Nothing I say ever changes his mind.  He claims that it's because they cause a lot more damage to his properties than others, but I think there's more to it than that.


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## syrenn (Mar 27, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> syrenn said:
> 
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I agree with you. The cultivation of racism and racial tension is a political tool.


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## xsited1 (Mar 27, 2011)

syrenn said:


> Foxfyre said:
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Yes, it is.  The Republicans don't do it as much as the Democrats, but it is still used.  What I find shocking is that Affirmative Action - giving preferential treatment to someone based on the color of one's skin - is part of the Democrat Party Platform.  That's the very definition of racism. 

Humans will always find someone to hate.  It's in our nature.


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## syrenn (Mar 27, 2011)

xsited1 said:


> syrenn said:
> 
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That may come back to bite them on the ass when whites demand affirmative action for themselves, as they will no longer be the dominate race.


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## dilloduck (Mar 27, 2011)

xsited1 said:


> syrenn said:
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Agreed--if we were all identical clones we would find something to bitch about.


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## xsited1 (Mar 27, 2011)

dilloduck said:


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Being a Trekkie, I'm reminded of the episode "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" from the original series.  






I've recently been having several conversations with a good friend of mine about racism.  He's black so his perspective is much different from mine.  (As an example, he recently told me about the Black Panthers and how gun control laws were used to keep guns out of the hands of blacks.)  We're always say how funny it is that we live on a tiny planet that is floating on a sea of magma with only a few vertical miles of breathable air separating from space that is constantly bombarded by radiation and meteors and we still find time to hate each other because of the color of our skin.  God help us all.


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

Obama also went after the Native American votes as well. Wasnt he embraced in a tribe with the elders doing the ceremony? I vaguely remember that. I think.


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## Grace (Mar 27, 2011)

xsited1 said:


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You and your friend have some mighty interesting convos.


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## dilloduck (Mar 27, 2011)

xsited1 said:


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I just was thinking about that episode the other day. He and his opposite buddy ended up fighting each other for eternity if I remember right. 
Humans will never escape this one I'm afraid.


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## Lumpy 1 (Mar 28, 2011)

dilloduck said:


> xsited1 said:
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Yup.. they have a star on thars........Dr. Seuss..


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## xsited1 (Mar 28, 2011)

IMEURU said:


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He told me on Friday to watch the movie 'Panther', said it's pretty good.  

Panther (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I haven't seen it, yet, but I'll probably watch it this week.

BTW, There is one area of my life where I have never experienced racism:  Music.  I was a professional musician for a few years and color doesn't seem to matter to anyone.


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## Ravi (Mar 28, 2011)

syrenn said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
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He tried to turn out the female vote by picking that idiot Palin as his running candidate. Where is your criticism of that?

btw, I doubt black people voted for Obama because of the color of his skin...it is more of a cultural thing. Black is more than a skin color, just as Irish is.


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## Ravi (Mar 28, 2011)

It's ironic how xsitableone has so many best friends.

One of his best friends is Mexican.
One of his best friends is black.
One of his best friends is Jewish.
One of his best friends is gay.

And they to a person behave in a stereotypical manner in his little anecdotes.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 28, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Seems that instead of it lessening, its getting stronger. I thought Obama being the first black (half black) president would be encouragement for the races to "settle in" and it not be as bad. And although I know its still rampant in this country, it _seemed_ to be lightening up a smidge and folks were more tolerant...or trying to be, anyway. But to me, since Obama got in office, it is rising to higher pitch.
> Or is it just me?



It's not you. Electing Obama took racism off of the op-section and put it on the front page.

Course I knew this would happen because racism is a very lucrative business for some. 

Funny thing, must of the folks it's been making rich call themselves reverend.


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## ClosedCaption (Mar 28, 2011)

xsited1 said:


> syrenn said:
> 
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You know, if only whites could show me one study or poll or experiment that shows whites being denied jobs over a minority I would agree with you.  But across the board anytime anyone has done a poll or study like this the white person finds employment without a problem even tho the white person and minority have the same qualifications.  So affirmative action was put in place to balance the field.  I can show you why affirmative action is needed, but the only reason you feel affirmative action is wrong is because...it's wrong.  No reasons given whatsoever....Affirmative Action is needed because of racism, there isnt one reason why Affirmative Action is NOT needed.


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## signelect (Mar 28, 2011)

This is on target.  This nation used to be called a melting pot and I think that we used the strengths of a lot of cultures to build the America our parents knew. Now we are dividing black, white, Hispanic, Asian,  and others.  Why are we not just Americans.  People came to this country to get away from the the things their country of birth was doing to make like miserable.  Now they say they are proud of where they came from and we should change to accommodate their old culture.  The cureent politically correct term is African American, just what part of Africa is doing so well that you are proud of the progress they have made so that you want to be associated with them.  I am sorry but I can't think of any that I would be proud of.


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 28, 2011)

JBeukema said:


> Foxfyre said:
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> > IMEURU said:
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That popping sound is my head exploading.

I've whatched a number of shows about ICE and the Boarder Patrol.  They'd show 1 or 2 white guys then a bunch of (I assume) people that decended from Mexicans.

I ALWAYS thought they were parading the few they had in front on the camera to make it look good.  Turns out the Latinos that did it the right way don't want illegals here either.


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 28, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


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And thus proving that liberals support racism.

Do you live in a cave or did you miss Sotomayors appointment to SCOTUS?

Did you miss the part where white fire fighters that scored higher on the test for advancement were denied to that minoriteis could move up, even though they didn't do as well?


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## ClosedCaption (Mar 28, 2011)

Two Thumbs said:


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Just show me one poll, study, experiment that shows whites are being pushed to the side for minorities.  Because there are plenty that shows there is a need for affirmative action.  If this "racism" is affecting you, just show it that it is.  This affirmative action "racism" is just a talking point to use in race relations threads because really, it doesnt affect any white person but they'd sure like to BELIEVE that it does.

"Man, I coulda had that job if it wasnt for Affirmative Action" - You suuuure could have sparky, you sure could've.

*edit* Let me address the Firefighter thing for a second...Let me first say that I did hear about the firefighter story and I disagree with it.  So you did show one instance of whites being denied (if that is what happened, I havent read about it but I heard about it) and it shouldnt happen period.  You know that that story is not par for the course tho.  The reason Affirmative Action is in place is because it is needed...not just for shits and giggles.


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## WillowTree (Mar 28, 2011)

Two Thumbs said:


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 28, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


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A poll?  Why?  You would just dismiss it as racism.

Did you hear about the lowering of requirments to become a cop or a Firefight?

The reason;  So more minorities can get in.

AA is racism.  It's enforced racism.  It assumes that people are evil and all of us need to be forced to do right.  So now instead of the best people in the best positions, we have people who showed up the day of the test running things.

Plus it's an insult to minorities.  The government, and by the goverment I do mean Dems, says they can not achieve w/o ANOTHER hand out.  But the dems have them conditioned, so few see it as anything else.

Why try when it's going to be handed to me?


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## The Gadfly (Mar 28, 2011)

Part of what's making racial reconciliation difficult, I think, is that we're dealing with a difference in perceptions caused by a difference in perspective. In simple terms, we all have a hard time understanding someone else's life experience, when it's been different from ours. That's not easy, as a matter of fact, it's really pretty difficult.
 Just as an example. Closed Caption could tell me what it's like to be Black in America. I'd understand some of it, but by no means would I understand it all-how could I; I haven't been in that position. By the same token, I could explain to Closed Caption how it feels to be White in America; the result would be the same. All we can do with someone else's experience in life, is try to imagine how we would feel in the same circumstances, but still, a lot of context and nuance is missing; *we haven't been there.*

To use an example that has nothing to do with race, I could try to tell Grace what it was like to be in combat; no matter how detailed the account, and no matter how sympathetic she might feel, she wouldn't get a lot of it; not because she didn't try, but because there is no common frame of reference for a lot of it. What we "don't get" we try to imagine, and most of the time we don't imagine correctly.

That matters, when we're talking about race, because different experiences lead to different perceptions. Closed Caption and I could look at the same racial interaction, and have two very different views of it. So who's right, and who's wrong? In reality we probably both are a little right, and a little wrong.If we're trying to be well-mannered and considerate, both of us might feel a little, maybe more than a little, awkward; we aren't really sure what might be offensive to the other, or might be taken in a way we didn't intend.

So what's the solution? I think we can find that, in being honest with each other; in talking to each other, without accusing, without blaming. "When you say that, it hurts my feelings because....", "When you do that, I feel like I'm walking on eggshells, because....". That's what friends do, and that's what we're all going to need to learn, if we're going to truly get along. We're going to have to be patient with one another, and tolerant of one another, and stop looking for the worst in each other, and try to find common ground, among all our differences; Isn't that what we do, when we have friendships that cross racial lines? 

In simple terms, it's about time we started cutting each other some slack, and recognize that we can't read each other's minds, that none of us are perfect, and that we all have some thoughtless moments. That's not easy, in an atmosphere of overheated political rhetoric, where some are willing to exploit people's worst instincts for power and profit. It's not easy, in a time when trust between the races is often a fragile thing. We need to start accepting, not dismissing, each other's feelings (which are very real) and we need to be OK with the idea that we're not going to totally understand the other person's point of view, or expect them to totally understand ours.That's hard, but it's either that, or keep pouring salt in each other's wounds, for no real purpose.


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## Tank (Mar 28, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


> You know, if only whites could show me one study or poll or experiment that shows whites being denied jobs over a minority I would agree with you.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 28, 2011)

Two Thumbs said:


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What about 700 SAT scores for minorities?


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 28, 2011)

Tank said:


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> > You know, if only whites could show me one study or poll or experiment that shows whites being denied jobs over a minority I would agree with you.



That's not in poll form.

So it's just a story, and everyone knows FOX lies, is racists and supports only republicans.


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## JBeukema (Mar 28, 2011)

People will die because they hire incompetent police and firefighters in order to make poor little Jamal feel better and punish Carl for being born White.

Is there any racism more disgusting than sacrificing innocent lives in the name of racial quotas and a dream seeing people the right colour (any colour other than White)  hired?


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## Flagwavrusa (Mar 28, 2011)

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Some basic statistics are enough to prove that affirmative action discriminates.Take doctors for instance. The goal would be for 12% of doctors to be black since that is their percentage of the U. S. population.  An IQ in the 120 range is needed to be able to graduate from medical school and become a practicing physician. The Bell Curve shows how the races stack up:

U. S. Physicians  788,000

Affirmative Action goal for black doctors ~ 95,000 (788,000 x 12%)

Blacks age 18-64 with IQ 120 or above  254,600
Whites age 18-64 with IQ 120 or above  13,400,000

That's 50 times as many whites capable of becoming physicians as blacks in this IQ range, which means there is an ample supply of white talent compared to the relatively small one for blacks. Given that many talented blacks will also choose professions like engineering, law, architecture, and so forth, there arent enough high IQ blacks to fill the coveted position of doctor on a competitive basis. 

Only by discriminating in favor of blacks to the detriment of more qualified candidates from other races can the affirmative action goal come close to being met. This has to be the case because of the relatively small pool of qualified blacks. For example, the black average  MCAT score is ony  in the tenth percentile of the white range. It's probably fair to say that most of the blacks admitted to medical school could have been replaced by more qualified whites or asians who were denied admission. Affirmative action is highly discriminatory and harms many people.


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## syrenn (Mar 28, 2011)

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Its not a plain thread, its a racism thread. 

Here in CA, yes it was a black voting for the sake of the candidate being black.


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## syrenn (Mar 28, 2011)

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Here is one for you. No "study required" 

The dumbing down of America for on to comply with minority mandates. How about these jobs be given out on MERIT and not skin color. Same goes for colleges. 



Dayton Ohio lowers qualifications for black police and firefighter applicants - National Conservative | Examiner.com


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## ClosedCaption (Mar 28, 2011)

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See, this is what I dont like.  Here is a person, not black, that doesnt ask why someone voted for Obama, he assumes that blacks are so dumb that they just vote for whoever the black guy is.  Sure, he's not saying blacks are dumb, or sheep or followers, he's just alluding to that being the case.

Maybe, just maybe...blacks agree with him and what he stood / stands for?  Naw, couldnt be that


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## mudwhistle (Mar 28, 2011)

Ravi said:


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That has to be one of the most ignorant and misinformed things you've ever said, and that's saying something. 

I was at the barbershop they used as Obama's campaign headquarters in Ft Lauderdale earlier this year looking at all of his pictures on the wall. 

Trust me.   It was because of skin color.


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## Ravi (Mar 28, 2011)

JBeukema said:


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 What a moron. You refused to learn a second language because you hate Mexicans? hahahahahahaha!


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## The Gadfly (Mar 28, 2011)

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That makes sense, if you think about it; if memory serves, the Black vote has gone about 90% democrat in the last several elections, so it's disingenuous to say that vote for Obama was race-based. I think there can be a better argument made, that Black voter turnout was higher because there was a Black candidate in the race who was electable. It seems normal enough human nature that this would have sparked more than ordinary interest in the Black community, because frankly this had not happened before. 

Correct me if I'm wrong here, CC, but I would think there would be some element of racial pride involved here (I'm nor sure how it can be quantified), just because the situation was a first. Was that in fact the case to some extent, or did Whites overestimate it? Also, do you think Blacks have more of an emotional investment in Obama than they ordinarily would, (It's obvious many whites have one as well) or is this too, something that's been over-estimated and/or overemphasized?


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## mudwhistle (Mar 28, 2011)

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Emotion has everything to do with besides bigotry. 

Btw, Democrats were worried their Black voters were leaving them. Then Katrina hit. The press played up the racial angle and the rest was history.


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## Anguille (Mar 28, 2011)

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 Obama is not "half white" he is black. In this country you can be either white or black, not both. Obama is perceived as black and I imagine he self identifes as black. That makes him black. In some countries you can be a mulatto or half caste and in this country years ago down south you coud be a quadroon or and octoroon, etc but nobody uses those designations anymore. 

Is the US about to invent a new race? Are biracial, triracial, etc going to become new racial division markers? It looks like it. How silly will it get? Why are people so obsessed with race?


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## Foxfyre (Mar 28, 2011)

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Some people are obsessed with race because it is expected of them in their particular social circles.  Some people are obsessed with race because it is profitable to their personal interests.

Until enough honest people stand up and refuse to be drawn into the ridiculous PC garbage we're having crammed down our throats these days, I can't see racism not being an organized and orchestrated component of American sociopolitics for a very long time.


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## Tank (Mar 28, 2011)

Tank said:


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What you got to say, ClosedCraption?


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## Ravi (Mar 28, 2011)

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I think quadroon sounds really awesome. "Hello, Anguille, I'd like to introduce my friend, Barak the quadroon, and his children, the partial octoroons."


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## Lonestar_logic (Mar 28, 2011)

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If it wasn't "race-based" then explain why with very little policy differences between Obama and Hillary, Obama won 92 percent of the black vote in Mississippi, 91 percent in Wisconsin, 87 percent in Ohio, 84 percent in Maryland, and 84 percent in Texas....?


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## Brewbrother (Mar 28, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Seems that instead of it lessening, its getting stronger. I thought Obama being the first black (half black) president would be encouragement for the races to "settle in" and it not be as bad. And although I know its still rampant in this country, it _seemed_ to be lightening up a smidge and folks were more tolerant...or trying to be, anyway. But to me, since Obama got in office, it is rising to higher pitch.
> Or is it just me?



It is on the rise in the gulf coast since katrina hit nola.


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## ClosedCaption (Mar 28, 2011)

@ flagwavr

The goal is not to get the percentage of blacks in any one profession up the the percentage of blacks in America.  Additionally, doctors have to go through a battery of education and test to prove they can be doctors.  That weeds out the ones not deserving off the break


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## xsited1 (Mar 28, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Seems that instead of it lessening, its getting stronger. I thought Obama being the first black (half black) president would be encouragement for the races to "settle in" and it not be as bad. And although I know its still rampant in this country, it _seemed_ to be lightening up a smidge and folks were more tolerant...or trying to be, anyway. But to me, since Obama got in office, it is rising to higher pitch.
> Or is it just me?



I'll tell you what I'd like to see:

The elimination of race from all applications, questionnaires, surveys, etc.
The elimination of affirmative action.

But we all know that will never happen because race is used for political purposes and politicians have no desire to end the race wars.


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## Tank (Mar 28, 2011)

Seven years ago, Chavis became the toast of the media elite and the racial preference crowd when he was profiled lavishly by New York Times magazine writer Nicholas Lehmann. Chavis, who made the cover of the magazine, was a black physician admitted to the University of California-Davis medical school under a special racial-preference quota. In 1978

Michelle Malkin


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## The Gadfly (Mar 28, 2011)

I didn't say it wasn't race based, Lonestar; what I said was, one can't just assume that. There were other factors in play, one of the more striking of which was that Obama's organization ran a very skillful campaign, both in the primaries, and in the general election. One thing they did very well, was target and organize first time voters, especially college students. These (Black and White, BTW) were a large part of the increased turnout and voted heavily for Obama. The Clinton campaign consistently underestimated the effectiveness of this, until it was too late; in fact, I think it can be argued that they didn't take Obama all that seriously early on. As a result, I think the Clinton campaign tended to take the Black vote for granted, and in fact, I heard some talk to that effect from Black people I know. That's anecdotal, to be sure, but it does indicate there was some sentiment among Blacks that the Clinton campaign was either taking them for granted, or being somewhat condescending toward them. Then, as the momentum swung toward Obama, there were a couple of remarks from the Clintons that at least some Blacks took as racist, so that played into it as well; to what degree who knows, but it was there.

With all that said, I think it would be naive to suggest that racial pride played no role at all; given the unprecedented nature of the situation, it obviously did. The real question is to what extent. I've heard differing views on that from Black friends of mine, which led me to ask CC what his opinion was. Some say yes, it was a big deal; others say it's been blown out of proportion. To the extent it did play a part I think it's understandable; a Black friend of mine put it this way,"Do you realize, that when we were young, people who looked like me couldn't even register to vote, and now, I can vote for a man who not only shares my ideals, but looks like me?" It's hard to fault a man for that.


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## Ravi (Mar 28, 2011)

xsited1 said:


> IMEURU said:
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> 
> > Seems that instead of it lessening, its getting stronger. I thought Obama being the first black (half black) president would be encouragement for the races to "settle in" and it not be as bad. And although I know its still rampant in this country, it _seemed_ to be lightening up a smidge and folks were more tolerant...or trying to be, anyway. But to me, since Obama got in office, it is rising to higher pitch.
> ...


That reminds me, you never answered my question. Why have you made it a point to tell us YOUR "race"?


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## xsited1 (Mar 28, 2011)

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I didn't realize you had asked the question.  Hmmm, that was a long time ago so I don't remember exactly.  I think it had something to do with you as a matter of fact.  Libtards usually like to classify people by race and I seem to recall you or someone else calling me a typical white person or something to that effect, so I just cleared up any confusion.

Any other questions?


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## Tank (Mar 28, 2011)

The Gadfly said:


> "Do you realize, that when we were young, people who looked like me couldn't even register to vote, and now, I can vote for a man who not only shares my ideals, but looks like me?" It's hard to fault a man for that.


Do you realize that in America blacks could vote years before Asians could?


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## Foxfyre (Mar 28, 2011)

The Gadfly said:


> I didn't say it wasn't race based, Lonestar; what I said was, one can't just assume that. There were other factors in play, one of the more striking of which was that Obama's organization ran a very skillful campaign, both in the primaries, and in the general election. One thing they did very well, was target and organize first time voters, especially college students. These (Black and White, BTW) were a large part of the increased turnout and voted heavily for Obama. The Clinton campaign consistently underestimated the effectiveness of this, until it was too late; in fact, I think it can be argued that they didn't take Obama all that seriously early on. As a result, I think the Clinton campaign tended to take the Black vote for granted, and in fact, I heard some talk to that effect from Black people I know. That's anecdotal, to be sure, but it does indicate there was some sentiment among Blacks that the Clinton campaign was either taking them for granted, or being somewhat condescending toward them. Then, as the momentum swung toward Obama, there were a couple of remarks from the Clintons that at least some Blacks took as racist, so that played into it as well; to what degree who knows, but it was there.
> 
> With all that said, I think it would be naive to suggest that racial pride played no role at all; given the unprecedented nature of the situation, it obviously did. The real question is to what extent. I've heard differing views on that from Black friends of mine, which led me to ask CC what his opinion was. Some say yes, it was a big deal; others say it's been blown out of proportion. To the extent it did play a part I think it's understandable; a Black friend of mine put it this way,"Do you realize, that when we were young, people who looked like me couldn't even register to vote, and now, I can vote for a man who not only shares my ideals, but looks like me?" It's hard to fault a man for that.



I just told Gadfly that I could argue a couple of his points a bit, but this is an insightful and well thought out post and does provide some important perspective.   It is always dangerous to see everything in black and white--okay maybe a little bit of pun intended --when there are almost always additional factors that need to be considered to get the whole picture.


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## The Gadfly (Mar 28, 2011)

Tank said:


> The Gadfly said:
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> ...


Not in a lot of the South, they couldn't.


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## Ravi (Mar 28, 2011)

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Yes...why the lie? I never called you a typical white person. And you've stated more than once, to more than one poster, your racial heritage. Not that there is anything wrong with it except for the fact that you comment on threads like these about how black people shouldn't self-identify.

Pretty hypocritical.


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## xsited1 (Mar 28, 2011)

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Lie?  I said I don't remember exactly.  Jeez!  You're so sensitive!  

There's nothing hypocritical about my methods, but of course you know that being a master troll and all.  It's all about clarification for those who seek to divide people among the races.

So why don't you comment on my post?  Good idea or bad?


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## ClosedCaption (Mar 28, 2011)

@ tank

I addressed that one page back.  If that's the firefighter story.  If whites were pushed aside for minorities, that's not cool, no one is for or pro that shit but that is hardly the norm or a common practice.  You can always find an exception, that's why I was looking for something that represents a larger field than one story.

And I even replied, without insult after reading your fucked up shit in the "black women shut your damn mouth" thread.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 28, 2011)

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I'm wondering if you're implying that being open about ones ethinicity is wrong?

The problem isn't that he identifies what race he represents, it's the context that is contained in that representation.


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## Ravi (Mar 28, 2011)

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Your idea makes you a hypocrite, basically. You don't want to know someone's racial makeup but you make a point of letting us know yours.

I don't care if questions about ethnic background are asked. In my view, ethnicity isn't something to be ashamed about.


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## xsited1 (Mar 28, 2011)

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Nothing hypocritical about it, but whatever.  And nobody is saying one's ethnicity is something to be ashamed of.  Jeez!    Ending racism is a noble goal, but race-baiters like yourself seem to thrive on it.  Why is that?


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## Ravi (Mar 28, 2011)

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I'm not the one telling black people they should call themselves something else.


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## xsited1 (Mar 28, 2011)

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This might help:

Race Talk by Walter E. Williams on Creators.com - A Syndicate Of Talent


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## The Gadfly (Mar 28, 2011)

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What I want to know, since none of us got to choose who our ancestors were, why this is something to be either ashamed or unduly proud of. You know, now that I think on it, the only thing worth being really proud or really ashamed of is our individual character. That's about the only thing I can think of that we earn entirely on our own, that we don't owe to anyone else, that didn't just get handed to us by God or Fate, (whichever one believes in) , and that no one but we ourselves can improve, or lose. Truth be told, when we leave this world, that's about the only thing anyone will remember about most of us. By comparison, what color skin we inherited seems a small thing to be either bragging about or bemoaning.


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## Foxfyre (Mar 28, 2011)

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I sincerely hope everybody on this thread clicks on the link and reads Dr. Williams' short essay on race.  It should restore at least some common sense to the debate for all but the intentional trolls and intellectually dishonest.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 28, 2011)

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Ravi's just throwing a fit because she feels blacks have every right to wear their blackness on their sleeves in hopes someone will try to knock it off.  

They should be able to wash everyone's faces in their ethnicity whether it fits the occasion or not. 

In all honesty, those kind of blacks are just boring and only interested in bitching to anyone who will listen to them.


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## Ravi (Mar 28, 2011)

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I'm proud to be Irish, 99.9% pure! And anyone that wants to tell me I shouldn't be deserves a punch in the nose.


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## Brewbrother (Mar 28, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


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this one by Walter Williams is also quite good.

Amnesty and Pardon


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## ClosedCaption (Mar 28, 2011)

What? Ok, so far I and other people only care about color because of: 1. Political purposes and 2. To bitch about it

People are being pursfully dishonest or willfully ignorant.  If you stop assuming and ask questions you may be able to under...uh....know where people are comin from.  Looking at pictures of Obama is not proof blacks only voted for Obama because he was black. That's just being an ass


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## Tank (Mar 28, 2011)




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## Ernie S. (Mar 28, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> I voted for Obama. I believed in what he said. I believed he could do it. And it wasnt because he was black. I am very disappointed.
> I think he unintentionally set off many steps backwards when it was in the process of going forward (at least to me it was). Its like...hes the catalyst that set this new wave in motion. And that, too, disappoints me.



I'm not so certain that it was unintentional. I'm more and more convinced as time goes on that barack obama is not stupid and he is intentionally fucking up this once great country.


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## The Gadfly (Mar 28, 2011)

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You know Ravi, I'm proud of my roots, too (mostly German, with a smattering of Scots); I'm proud of my ancestors, who fought for freedom in all our wars, from the Revolution on, and I'm proud to be a South Carolinian, a Southerner, and most of all, an American. But I didn't earn any of those things; they're an accident of birth; so what I'm most proud of, is what I* chose* to be: a husband, a father, a soldier who served my country, a volunteer EMT/Paramedic/Firefighter who served my community, a man who tried to stand for what was right, and against what was wrong, as best I knew it; who tried to make a difference. That's the best I could be; now that I'm old, it will have to do, and I think I can live (and die) with that.


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## Flagwavrusa (Mar 28, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


> @ flagwavr
> 
> The goal is not to get the percentage of blacks in any one profession up the the percentage of blacks in America.  Additionally, doctors have to go through a battery of education and test to prove they can be doctors.  That weeds out the ones not deserving off the break



My point is that the 15 point average iq gap between whites and blacks insures that for high IQ positions, like doctor, there will almost always be a pool of white candidates who will be more qualified than a black affirmative action hiree, and therefore promoting blacks cannot occur without discriminating against better qualified whites. Those who support affirmative action try to gloss over the fact that it entails reverse discrimanation, but in almost every instance that's what's occurring.


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## Foxfyre (Mar 28, 2011)

Flagwavrusa said:


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In an exhaustive study on this, I believe it was Dickens and Flynn?  (Brookings Institute) concluded that Asians have consistently scored above Caucasians and both Blacks and Hispanics have scored below non-Hispanic whites on standardized IQ tests over the last several decades.   However the gap between Asians and non-Hispanic whites has narrowed as has the gap between non-Hispanic whites and blacks and Hispanics.  As the ratio of racial/ethnic intermarriage and other factors are too small to have made the significant differences observed, the conclusion of Dickens and Flynn was that the gains are due to environment and experience rather than due to any other significant cause.

In other words there is no inate or genetic factor in diferences in IQ in various groups but rather those differences are by far mostly due to culture, language, experience, affluence, environment.

Asians and non-Hispanic Caucasian cultures are largely open to experimentation, precision of language, appreciation for music, art, lifestyle, literature, and upward mobility.  Asian and non-Hispanic Caucasians without these advantages fare no better than do blacks and Hispanics.   And blacks and Hispanics who forego "eubonics" and some other cultural pressures and taboos re improving themselves will be much more likely to be on a par with others in the higher IQ range.

Black culture does itself no favors when it scorns those who 'act white'.  And Asians, who have no such cultural pressures will more often excel and could teach everybody else something about work ethic and how to accomplish goals that comes from their culture.


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## Ravi (Mar 28, 2011)

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All that is fine...but you can't really tell other people how they should feel. Kind of unconservative of you, no?

IMO people can and should care about their ancestors and their ancestral history...but if people don't it doesn't matter. If they do, no one should smack them around over it.


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## manifold (Mar 28, 2011)

Is this thread worth reading?

Are there any posts in particular that deserve a look?


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## Grace (Mar 28, 2011)

manifold said:


> Is this thread worth reading?
> 
> Are there any posts in particular that deserve a look?



Many.


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## Tank (Mar 28, 2011)

Ravi said:


> IMO people can and should care about their ancestors and their ancestral history...but if people don't it doesn't matter. If they do, no one should smack them around over it.


Only one group gets smacked around for it.


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## JBeukema (Mar 28, 2011)

Ravi said:


> What a moron. You refused to learn a second language because you hate Mexicans? hahahahahahaha!


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## JBeukema (Mar 28, 2011)

Ravi said:


> I'm proud to be Irish



So... why the fuck are you in my country? Why do you not go back to Ireland?


> , 99.9% pure!


Pure what? Black Irish? Celt? Roman? 



> And anyone that wants to tell me I shouldn't be deserves a punch in the nose.



You're proud because of something you have no control over?

Even Neonazis would laugh at you. When they tell you to name five things you're proud of, your skin isn't an acceptable answer.

Are you proud to be born on a particular day of the week, too? You had more control over that than you did your racial mix.


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## JBeukema (Mar 28, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> In other words there is no inate or genetic factor in diferences in IQ in various groups



Heritability of IQ is ~80-85% when looking at adults

Studies regarding the IQ of children adopted by members of other races refute the study you mention

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Race-Reality-Differences-Vincent-Sarich/dp/0813340861]Amazon.com: Race: The Reality Of Human Differences (9780813340869): Vincent Sarich, Frank Miele: Books[/ame]


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## Tank (Mar 28, 2011)

Ravi said:


> I'm proud to be Irish, 99.9% pure!


What's the .01?


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## The Gadfly (Mar 28, 2011)

Ravi said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



You misunderstand, Ravi; I'm not trying to tell anyone how *they* should feel. That's an exercise in futility, anyway; it would be about as useful as asking you not to think of a pink elephant. I'm just trying to present another way of looking at who we are, and what matters. There's no instruction book with all the right answers in life for everyone. We each walk our own path in life, with our own choices, our own obstacles, our own priorities, and our own successes and failures. Now that I'm nearing the end of the journey, I'm afraid all I can offer anyone, is what i've found along the way that works for *me*. God may have the right answers for everyone, but I'm not Him.


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## Grace (Mar 28, 2011)

Tank said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > I'm proud to be Irish, 99.9% pure!
> ...



Does insanity have a color?


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## xsited1 (Mar 28, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



I just googled that for you:

What colour represents insanity? - Yahoo! Answers


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## Samson (Mar 28, 2011)

xsited1 said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > Tank said:
> ...



Wouldn't it be better to know which color represents sanity?


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## Flagwavrusa (Mar 28, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> Flagwavrusa said:
> 
> 
> > ClosedCaption said:
> ...



Flynn is a political scientist, not an expert on intelligence. He was a civil rights worker back in the 1960s so he has an axe to grind. They fudged the numbers to show a shrinking IQ gap between the races that really doesnt exist. The IQ gap isnt shrinking, as you can see from the results of standardized test which still show blacks trailing whites by a significan margin.


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## Foxfyre (Mar 28, 2011)

Flagwavrusa said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Flagwavrusa said:
> ...



Well we'll just have to disagree.  My personal experience and what I read and what I observe and reading and listening to some of my heroes such as Shelby Steele, Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, William Raspberry, et al, all of whom have devoted much of their adult lives studying such issues, confirms to me that Flynn was right on.


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## xsited1 (Mar 28, 2011)

Samson said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> > IMEURU said:
> ...


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## Ravi (Mar 28, 2011)

The Gadfly said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > The Gadfly said:
> ...


Okay...maybe I did misunderstand you. IMO claiming someone should self-identify the way other people think he or she should self identify is about as unconservative as it can get.


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## Ravi (Mar 28, 2011)

JBeukema said:
			
		

> Hi, you have received -182 reputation points from JBeukema.
> Reputation was given for *this* post.
> 
> Comment:
> ...


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## Tank (Mar 28, 2011)

Ravi said:


> I'm proud to be Irish, 99.9% pure!


Good job, if you would have said 100% pure you would have been racist.

So what is that .01 anyways?


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## Ravi (Mar 28, 2011)

German.


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## manifold (Mar 28, 2011)

Tank said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > I'm proud to be Irish, 99.9% pure!
> ...



Your math blows.  .01 is not correct.  Are you part black? 

but seriously, it's either 0.1% or it's .001


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## mudwhistle (Mar 29, 2011)

Ravi said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



I'm wondering why someone who's so Irish is such a racist in favor of blacks? 

You've got more white blood then me. I'm only 3/4 Scotch-Irish. 

Hell, I at least have some Sicilian blood, which means I have some black blood, and some Native-American blood. If anyone had a beef it would me, not you.


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## ClosedCaption (Mar 29, 2011)

The Gadfly said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> > syrenn said:
> ...



It was, many believed that a black man wouldnt become the president at least anytime soon.  Instead of that whites just want to believe something overly simple like "just because hes black" ignoring that blacks vote dem most of the time anyway.  Blacks want Obama to do a good job because, frankly, blacks have to prove themselves in order to fight preconceived notions about blacks in general.

Like Tank likes to post vids of crazy black people then claim thats how all of them are.  Even though Obama doesnt "go crazy" whites are waiting for it so he has to be more measured in his responses so he wont be seen as the "angry black man" or some other non sense.

No difference than if any other race or ethnicity found their way to the white house.  Like I said Pailin was picked to court the female vote, Marco Rubio could and will court the hispanic vote, that indian guy (cant remember his name) would court that community and so forth.  That's politics.


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## ClosedCaption (Mar 29, 2011)

JBeukema said:


> Even Neonazis would laugh at you. When they tell you to name five things you're proud of, your skin isn't an acceptable answer.



Why am I not surprised you know Neo Nazi qualification requirements


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## mudwhistle (Mar 29, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> > ClosedCaption said:
> ...


Wow!

A lib that has learned to face reality, other then the fact that blacks vote Democrat, but if the choice is between a white or a black Democrat they usually pick the black.


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## ClosedCaption (Mar 29, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> > The Gadfly said:
> ...



Wow!

An Idiot who cannot read


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## The Gadfly (Mar 29, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> > ClosedCaption said:
> ...


Thank you, CC. That's pretty much the sense I had of it, after talking with Black friends of mine. I think with those in my age group especially (those old enough to remember Jim Crow), there was an embracing of what seemed at first an "impossible dream"; I think that feeling was intensified by how close we still are (in historical time) to that era.

I also get the sense that the idea of Black people "having to prove themselves"is still very much a part of the psyche of Black America, as it was when we were emerging from the era of segregation; it's evident despite the fact that most Blacks have joined the middle class (or above) since then. Of course, what is often forgotten (or not understood) is that there was already a thriving middle and upper-middle and professional class within the segregated Black communities even in the bad old days, so there was a foundation in place; and as more doors opened, even more joined them. That prosperity, (and it is a marvel of achievement in its own right) often gets overlooked by some Whites, because of the disproportionate number of Blacks still trapped in poverty, but the truth is, that there are many more Blacks in the economic and social mainstream than there are on welfare. Part of that misperception may be simple demographics; we have a lot of the White population living in areas where there are so relatively few Black people, that there's little interaction with them on a daily basis, hence old perceptions flourish. That's what happens when most of one's conceptions of another race come not from personal experience, but from the papers and the evening news (where bad news and dysfunctional behavior make headlines) Here in the South, of course, that's not the case; we can hardly avoid interacting with one another on a day-to-day basis, and the resulting transformation of attitudes has been amazing; still very much a work in progress, but something that gives me great hope for the future.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 29, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > ClosedCaption said:
> ...



I tested out in 6th grade at a 12th grade level.

I understand what you said. 

You just were unclear. You gave an excuse that everyone does it, which is bogus. . Whites don't vote according to race. That part seems to have escaped you. Minorities vote according to race.


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## Ovenbrown (Mar 29, 2011)

The criticism of Obama that is related to his policies is not considered racist. It is the criticism of his ersonal motivations that is racist.


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## Ovenbrown (Mar 29, 2011)

The jews were persecuted primarily somewhere other than america. They were discriminated agianst here, but no to the extent of blacks. No one has been treated in america like blacks-period.


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## Ovenbrown (Mar 29, 2011)

So, every black should be grateful for not being "left" in africa. What about all of the immigrants who flocked here from Italy and Irelan and elsewhere. Italians and Irish were starving to death in some of those countries-give me a break.


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## Ovenbrown (Mar 29, 2011)

What?


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## Ovenbrown (Mar 29, 2011)

What you have said makes perfect sense.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 29, 2011)

Ovenbrown said:


> The jews were persecuted primarily somewhere other than america. They were discriminated agianst here, but no to the extent of blacks. No one has been treated in america like blacks-period.



True. 

Blacks were brought here as slaves and their Grandkids ended up getting a better deal then those who remain behind. 

But FYI, Native-Americans got a worse deal. This was their home and now they live in poverty for the most part. This doesn't include casino owners of course.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 29, 2011)

To put all of this in simpler terms, if you feel you are a member of the oppressed you don't give a shit if the candidate is compitent, as long as he is someone you can identify with.


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## JBeukema (Mar 29, 2011)

Ovenbrown said:


> The jews were persecuted primarily somewhere other than america. They were discriminated agianst here, but no to the extent of blacks. No one has been treated in america like blacks-period.


Ask a native about Jackson


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## JBeukema (Mar 29, 2011)




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## ClosedCaption (Mar 29, 2011)

@ mud

No matter what I say you are going to translate it IMO something completely different than what I said.  Beat up those strawman all you want


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## Uncensored2008 (Mar 29, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> . But to me, since Obama got in office, it is rising to higher pitch.
> Or is it just me?



90% of Racism comes from the left. Look at how the new Klan (DNC) tries to lynch Clarence Thomas or any other black who DARES wander off the leftist plantation. 

The left are race pimps.


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## Anguille (Mar 29, 2011)

Ravi said:


> German.


 If you're embarrassed to be .1 % German you can always say your part buffoon, since it's sounds like snazzy quadroon.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 29, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


> @ mud
> 
> No matter what I say you are going to translate it IMO something completely different than what I said.  Beat up those strawman all you want



I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm just trying to engage you in a dialog so I can understand what you mean. 

However, I will go back and re-read it and see if there is another meaning that escapes me.


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## William Joyce (Mar 29, 2011)

The Gadfly said:


> Part of what's making racial reconciliation difficult, I think, is that we're dealing with a difference in perceptions caused by a difference in perspective.



Let me suggest another possibility.

We aren't dealing with a "difference in perceptions."

We aren't dealing with a "difference in perspective."

*We are dealing with reality.*

Race is real.  A physical reality.  A biological reality.  A genetic reality.

An _evolutionary_ reality.

Our clustering by race is as natural as a mother's preference for her own children over her neighbor's children.  There's no moral failing about it.  We aren't going to "get over" race any more than we're going to "get over" male and female, water running down hill and the rising and setting of the sun.

Neither left nor right is correct in their "solutions" for race.

The left is WRRONG that if we just give blacks and Hispanics enough goodies, racial conflict will go away.

The right is WRONG that if blacks all vote Republican, racial conflict will go away.

*Racial conflict will go away when racial conflict goes away.*

How do we get there?

Separate the races.


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## William Joyce (Mar 29, 2011)

Polk said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > Seems that instead of it lessening, its getting stronger. I thought Obama being the first black (half black) president would be encouragement for the races to "settle in" and it not be as bad. And although I know its still rampant in this country, it _seemed_ to be lightening up a smidge and folks were more tolerant...or trying to be, anyway. But to me, since Obama got in office, it is rising to higher pitch.
> ...



Yes, whites demonstrate they're "mature adults" by letting Hispanics run wild across their country and giving up their jobs on the police force to unqualified blacks.  There is no corresponding duty for blacks or Hispanics.  

What has the world shown us?  Every political conflict the world over has an element of ethnic tribal conflicts... whether overt or otherwise.

Race is not a "silly social construct."  It's a biological reality.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 29, 2011)

William Joyce said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> > Part of what's making racial reconciliation difficult, I think, is that we're dealing with a difference in perceptions caused by a difference in perspective.
> ...



In a way it's just insecurity. Some people are more comfortable around people of their own race. However, I've lived with blacks, Native-Americans, Muslims, Hispanics, and it's all the same to me once you get through all of the stereotypes. 

Problem is if you get enough people of the same race or group together they start taking sides. Pretty soon the one odd person out becomes a focal point. 

As I told Closed Captioned, blacks feel for the most part like they're oppressed so they'll vote in great numbers for any damn fool as long as he's black. Marion Berry, Ray Nagan, Sheila Jackson-Lee, John Conyers, Barack Obama, Carol Moseley Braun, William Jefferson, Harold Ford Jr., Maxine Waters, Kwame Kilpatrick to name a few. 

Sure they want them to be good, but they will settle for black. If one of them turns out to be incompitent one of their favorite sayings is "Sure he's an idiot, but he's our idiot".


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## Foxfyre (Mar 29, 2011)

I think consciousness of race as anything other than an obvious physical characteristic is learned behavior.  If it was inate or something people were born with, young children would segregate themselves into groups by racial characteristics.  They don't.  Not before they are taught to do so.


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## Tank (Mar 29, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> I've lived with blacks, Native-Americans, Muslims, Hispanics, and it's all the same to me once you get through all of the stereotypes.


How long were you in for?


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## Tank (Mar 29, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> I think consciousness of race as anything other than an obvious physical characteristic is learned behavior.  If it was inate or something people were born with, young children would segregate themselves into groups by racial characteristics.  They don't.  Not before they are taught to do so.


And a lion dosen't know how to roar without hearing another lion roar, and a bird doesn't know how to fly without seeing another bird fly?


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## Anguille (Mar 29, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Sure they want them to be good, but they will settle for black. If one of them turns out to be incompitent one of their favorite sayings is *"Sure he's an idiot, but he's our idiot".*


That's what we say about you.


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## Ravi (Mar 29, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> I think consciousness of race as anything other than an obvious physical characteristic is learned behavior.  If it was inate or something people were born with, young children would segregate themselves into groups by racial characteristics.  They don't.  Not before they are taught to do so.


I don't think that is true, fwiw. Babies, like dogs, are comfortable with what they normally see. When I lived in a black neighborhood, my dog freaked out over people other than me and hubby that weren't black. Now in a white neighborhood, different dog, and she freaks out over people that are not white.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 29, 2011)

Tank said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > I've lived with blacks, Native-Americans, Muslims, Hispanics, and it's all the same to me once you get through all of the stereotypes.
> ...



Lmao

I'm still in. It's called being married.


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## Brewbrother (Mar 29, 2011)

Ovenbrown said:


> The jews were persecuted primarily somewhere other than america. They were discriminated agianst here, but no to the extent of blacks. No one has been treated in america like blacks-period.



Better not mention that to my neighbor who is a Creek Indian. His family have some unique views on race, race persecution and the American government. They abhor Andrew Jackson and wouldn't celebrate Thanksgiving under any circumstance.


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## JBeukema (Mar 29, 2011)

Ravi said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > I think consciousness of race as anything other than an obvious physical characteristic is learned behavior.  If it was inate or something people were born with, young children would segregate themselves into groups by racial characteristics.  They don't.  Not before they are taught to do so.
> ...


In a discussion about race, you compare people to dogs...

You don't even see it, do you?


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## Brewbrother (Mar 29, 2011)

Uncensored2008 said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > . But to me, since Obama got in office, it is rising to higher pitch.
> ...



I am surprised that anyone even associates or identifies with the Democratic party given their history of racism and genocide. They perpetuated slavery, instituted Jim Crow laws, poll tax, the KKK and literacy tests. Previous democratic presidents have participated in the genocide of native americans. 
Given the despicable history of the democratic party anyone of color associating with them is equal to Jews belonging to the Nazi Party. They should be renamed the party of slavery, segregation and genocide.


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## JBeukema (Mar 29, 2011)

Ravi said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > I think consciousness of race as anything other than an obvious physical characteristic is learned behavior.  If it was inate or something people were born with, young children would segregate themselves into groups by racial characteristics.  They don't.  Not before they are taught to do so.
> ...



You know, different breeds of puppies have different demeanors...


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## mudwhistle (Mar 29, 2011)

Brewbrother said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > IMEURU said:
> ...



All those Crackers, they say, switched parties. 

That's horse-shit of course. 

The Dems are still the lying, disreputable batch they've always been, but now they own the media and the media helps them spread their lies about the right.


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## Ravi (Mar 30, 2011)

JBeukema said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...


Actually, I was comparing babies to dogs...the mindset is similar. As is yours.


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## pete (Mar 30, 2011)

Lumpy 1 said:


> I figure every race has been persecuted, mistreated or enslaved at one time or another through history. Some pursue it or allow it as a bargaining chip for a free ride or excuse in their lives.
> 
> I'd say get over it and move on, we'll all be better off..



There is only one way to get over it and move on ... get rid of all the segregating groups, committees etc etc ..... *the true racists and haters*


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## ClosedCaption (Mar 30, 2011)

pete said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> > I figure every race has been persecuted, mistreated or enslaved at one time or another through history. Some pursue it or allow it as a bargaining chip for a free ride or excuse in their lives.
> ...



why do white people want to the tell minorities what they should do?  arrogant much?


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## Lasher (Mar 30, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> I think consciousness of race as anything other than an obvious physical characteristic is learned behavior.  If it was inate or something people were born with, young children would segregate themselves into groups by racial characteristics.  They don't.  Not before they are taught to do so.



Young children have to be taught virtually everything, from looking both ways before crossing a street to how to tie their shoes to avoiding dangerous animals, so if they are not taught to keep to their own kind by their parents, there will be others who will step in and tell them that race means nothing and we should all mix and create a world of kumbaya singing idiots who will pollute the whole human race with mongrelized blood lines.  The white race is the race that has been in the vanguard of all human progress, and when it is mongrelized out of existence, there will be no more goose that lays the golden egg of progress.


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## Foxfyre (Mar 30, 2011)

Be careful how you describe 'mongrel' Lasher because I'm about as mongrel as they come and I'm rather comfortable with that thank you very much.


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## Tank (Mar 30, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


> why do white people want to the tell minorities what they should do?


Trying to speed up evolution?


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## Uncensored2008 (Mar 31, 2011)

Ravi said:


> Actually, I was comparing babies to dogs...the mindset is similar. As is yours.



Kind of like comparing leftists with feral baboons - both are mindless, shit flinging creatures who make a great deal of noise but never produce anything useful.


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## Uncensored2008 (Mar 31, 2011)

Tank said:


> Trying to speed up evolution?



The only thing slowing down evolution is the anchor of leftism.

We can't be herd animals and progress.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 31, 2011)

Lasher said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > I think consciousness of race as anything other than an obvious physical characteristic is learned behavior.  If it was inate or something people were born with, young children would segregate themselves into groups by racial characteristics.  They don't.  Not before they are taught to do so.
> ...


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## Uncensored2008 (Mar 31, 2011)

Brewbrother said:


> I am surprised that anyone even associates or identifies with the Democratic party given their history of racism and genocide. They perpetuated slavery, instituted Jim Crow laws, poll tax, the KKK and literacy tests. Previous democratic presidents have participated in the genocide of native americans.
> Given the despicable history of the democratic party anyone of color associating with them is equal to Jews belonging to the Nazi Party. They should be renamed the party of slavery, segregation and genocide.



Not to mention that Andrew Jackson FOUNDED the democratic party....

Ah what a trail of tears he started.


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## Brewbrother (Mar 31, 2011)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Brewbrother said:
> 
> 
> > I am surprised that anyone even associates or identifies with the Democratic party given their history of racism and genocide. They perpetuated slavery, instituted Jim Crow laws, poll tax, the KKK and literacy tests. Previous democratic presidents have participated in the genocide of native americans.
> ...




Nothing to be proud of thats for sure.


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## ClosedCaption (Apr 2, 2011)

Minorities shouldn't be proud of their race because they had no control over who they were being born too, but we all should be proud to be Americans because you say so...

Makes total sense


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## Ovenbrown (Feb 2, 2013)

Racism is the gift that keeps on giving. It started here with the inception of this country and the Founding Fathers. The fact that they condoned slavery and believed that blacks were inferior had affected the development or lack thereof of race relations throughout the history of this country. In fact, as egalitarian as some republicans and conservatives would have you believe this country is and was, for 80% of its history it has been legal to discriminate against blacks. You do not erase the effects of that, both psychological and real, in a few decades. People have been taught to believe in race. Whites are smarter. Blacks can jump higher. On and on.


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## katsteve2012 (Feb 2, 2013)

Grace said:


> Seems that instead of it lessening, its getting stronger. I thought Obama being the first black (half black) president would be encouragement for the races to "settle in" and it not be as bad. And although I know its still rampant in this country, it _seemed_ to be lightening up a smidge and folks were more tolerant...or trying to be, anyway. But to me, since Obama got in office, it is rising to higher pitch.
> Or is it just me?



The election of Obama brought out many different aspects within the racial dynamic. 

There were probably some whites who actually thought voting for him was in some way an atonement for past racism. 

There were probably also some blacks who believed that his being elected was a sign that racism as we knew it was fading into history and that this country was  truly entering a new "post racial" era.

And then there was the segment that was whipped into a hysterical frenzy of outrage that "a ******" was now actually the President and would occupy The "White House".
And proceeeded to do everything possible to obstruct any action taken by him..even at the risk of harming the country and it's citizens. 

The most important segment IMO, were the unexpected voters, namely the Latinos. Their presence in the 2012 election proved that this is not a "black and white" country anymore, and also proved that an election cannot be won without pursuing and earning their votes.

It is is projected that in the next few decades this will be a predominately "brown" nation.


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## Katzndogz (Feb 2, 2013)

Racism is obviously not on the rise.  The definition of racism has changed making it appear that racism is on the rise.


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## Meathead (Feb 2, 2013)

There hasn't been much change in racism since Obama was elected. What there has been is a publically-educated, thn skinned generation coming of age. Indoctrinated in political correctness, they freely and often mindlessly bandy about charges of racism. To address, or even to mention the disparities between races has become taboo, especially when the shortcomings or performance of minorities are apparent.

I agree with Katzndogs.


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## Foxfyre (Feb 2, 2013)

Racism will remain alive and well until people are allowed to be colorblind and see the color of a person's skin as of no more significance than hair color, eye color, height, weight, etc.

Currently we live in a culture in which it is advantageous to be a 'person of color' and advantageous to various groups to promote at least the illusion of favoring certain groups.  Results and effect of such favor don't matter.  The illusion is sufficient.

So we are expected to see people of color--meaning they aren't 'white'--differently and we are supposed to be sensitive to those differences in our language, deference, history, and funding.  And most important of all, we are not allowed to treat a person of color like everybody else or we are immediately branded racist.

Hell, all you have to do is criticize a person of color to be branded racist on this board.


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## yidnar (Feb 2, 2013)

Grace said:


> Seems that instead of it lessening, its getting stronger. I thought Obama being the first black (half black) president would be encouragement for the races to "settle in" and it not be as bad. And although I know its still rampant in this country, it _seemed_ to be lightening up a smidge and folks were more tolerant...or trying to be, anyway. But to me, since Obama got in office, it is rising to higher pitch.
> Or is it just me?


yes the assault on white christians that cling to their guns and religion is getting worse.


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## katsteve2012 (Feb 3, 2013)

yidnar said:


> Grace said:
> 
> 
> > Seems that instead of it lessening, its getting stronger. I thought Obama being the first black (half black) president would be encouragement for the races to "settle in" and it not be as bad. And although I know its still rampant in this country, it _seemed_ to be lightening up a smidge and folks were more tolerant...or trying to be, anyway. But to me, since Obama got in office, it is rising to higher pitch.
> ...



If you are referring to the type that justify their bigotry with their bible thumping, and then after shooting innocent people say "God told me to do it", there should absolutely be an all out assault on wackos like them.


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## Rozman (Feb 3, 2013)

Whatever amount of racism that's out there will never die because the left doesn't want it to.
That bunch over at MSNBC led by Chris Mathews stirs the pot over what in my opinion was not a 
racist action.


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## Rozman (Feb 3, 2013)

I think Chris Mathews has taken it upon himself to protect Obama's legacy.
Mathews feels the reason the republicans will not work with the President is not because of Obama's 
position on the issues but because of race.

So now history looks at Obama as the greatest President ever but he doesn't get that acknowledgement because of a racist opposition.

There you have it Obama is protected by his personal little thrill up his leg dragon slayer.


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## Foxfyre (Feb 3, 2013)

Rozman said:


> Whatever amount of racism that's out there will never die because the left doesn't want it to.
> That bunch over at MSNBC led by Chris Mathews stirs the pot over what in my opinion was not a
> racist action.



MSNBC is so leftwing they are willing to be completely dishonest in their advocacy as opposed to say PBS that also tilts left but at least tries to get it right.

As far as racism goes, keeping that alive and well is the political left's stock in trade.  It is how they get a substantial percentage of their votes.  It is an important component of talking points to demonize the opposition.  It is an important component in how they justify pushing a leftist agenda.   Take racism out of the equation and they are left with a big hole in their overall strategy.

And here on USMB, it is an effective tool for the trolls to use to stir the pot.   They can derail almost any thread by turning the focus to racism.  Of course racism isn't on the rise.  But it is kept alive and well for definite reasons.


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## Foxfyre (Feb 3, 2013)

In retrospect, I am already rethinking my last post.  It could be that due to the left's so pointed politicizing racism, that it is creating racism where none would have existed before.   So it is possible that racism is on the rise where none would have existed without that politicizing.

Going on four decades after Affirmative Action accomplished what it was intended to do, keeping that alive does not allow many minorities, especially black people, to be seen as successful on their own merit.  And that almost certainly generates more consciousness of race and resentment re 'special privileges' that does not serve the black community well.

The faux outrage over perceived 'racist remarks' that are labeled 'racist' is another component that keeps racism alive and well   In the last campaign Romney used the word 'lazy' that was immediately jumped on as a 'racist term'.  Think about that.  If we can't call a lazy black person 'lazy' without being racist, there is no way that we will ever allow our culture to become color blind and treat everybody alike.

The unintended consequences of Johnson's Great Societies, amended and expanded over the decades, has been a decimation of the black family with the result of a much higher school dropout rate, trouble with the law, often fatal social breakdown, and high unemployment among young black people.  The left largely refuses to acknowledge this  because it would be acknowledgment that their agenda has been detrimental to black people and they wouldn't be able to accuse rightwing racism as the reason black people don't succeed.

All this is probably creating race consciousness, which of course is what racism is, that wouldn't otherwise exist.


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## alextenenbaum (Feb 3, 2013)

Yes - see the Obama posts on here.


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## Foxfyre (Feb 3, 2013)

alextenenbaum said:


> Yes - see the Obama posts on here.



Yes.  Some think Obama's term of office would have been glorious if those nasty mean racist Republicans hadn't blocked him at every turn - because he is black of course.

Of course it was different when they were giving George Bush grief over just about everything and accusing him of everything from religious fanatic to Nazi.  That was different.  Why?  Because George W. Bush wasn't black.

And so it goes.


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## Swagger (Feb 3, 2013)

Racism isn't "on the rise." And there's no effectives means by which to gauge how widespread this taboo is. Be under no illusions, despite mainstream leaders and the press insisting otherwise, racism and suspicions based on race will always (always) exist. But now America's seen the election of a black Prseident, who leads a white majority, and racial dialogue is becoming louder. When all is said and done humans are still tribal. And in the event of someone coming to such exceptional power in a country where they don't look like the majority, there's going to be tension.


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## Foxfyre (Feb 3, 2013)

Swagger said:


> Racism isn't "on the rise." And there's no effectives means by which to gauge how widespread this taboo is. Be under no illusions, despite mainstream leaders and the press insisting otherwise, racism and suspicions based on race will always (always) exist. But now America's seen the election of a black Prseident, who leads a white majority, and racial dialogue is becoming louder. When all is said and done humans are still tribal. And in the event of someone coming to such exceptional power in a country where they don't look like the majority, there's going to be tension.



I guess I am not as pessimistic as you, my friend.  I watch too many little kids at play with black, brown, white, and yellow all interacting absolutely normally with no effort whatsoever to be politically correct or tribal.  I note no tendency to naturally separate themselves into racial groups and you would think if that was inate, that would happen.  It doesn't.   It is only later, when they are taught racial euphemisms and poltical correctness that they begin developing race consciousness.

And I honestly don't think Obama's skin color has anything at all to do with the dynamics of criticism etc. among those who are not already racist.  For sure there are some dedicated racists who really do believe black people are inferior.  They start threads on message boards to 'prove' it.   But I think the vast majority of people who criticize Obama would criticize ANYBODY for the same reasons, and perhaps do develop resentment when they are constantly accused of 'hating' him because he is black.

But I said during the 2008 campaign that I would vote for a candidate who happened to be black person in a heartbeat if he shared most of my most important values and point of view.  But I didn't want a BLACK president, i.e. one who we would constantly have to be conscious of as BLACK and would not be able to talk about or treat as any other President.  There is a difference between these two things.


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## RightNorLeft (Feb 3, 2013)

Obama didnt win twice because hes black thats a given. He shouldve never won if racism was still so strong in the USA that it could overide the rich and corporatists in this countries assault on everyone that works for a living and on down.
  I dont believe Obama won because theres less whites then there was...I believe he won because the teaparty far right scared the living shit out of Govt and public workers and working people around the country that were inclined to vote republican and seniors that had been republican voters and turned and voted for Obama.
  Obama won because working middleclass america disliked the teaparty far right agenda more.


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## Meathead (Feb 3, 2013)

RightNorLeft said:


> Obama didnt win twice because hes black thats a given. He shouldve never won if racism was still so strong in the USA that it could overide the rich and corporatists in this countries assault on everyone that works for a living and on down.
> I dont believe Obama won because theres less whites then there was...I believe he won because the teaparty far right scared the living shit out of Govt and public workers and working people around the country that were inclined to vote republican and seniors that had been republican voters and turned and voted for Obama.
> Obama won because working middleclass america disliked the teaparty far right agenda more.


Why did whites and the middle class then vote against Obama? Was it their fear of the left-wing agenda?


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## Foxfyre (Feb 3, 2013)

RightNorLeft said:


> Obama didnt win twice because hes black thats a given. He shouldve never won if racism was still so strong in the USA that it could overide the rich and corporatists in this countries assault on everyone that works for a living and on down.
> I dont believe Obama won because theres less whites then there was...I believe he won because the teaparty far right scared the living shit out of Govt and public workers and working people around the country that were inclined to vote republican and seniors that had been republican voters and turned and voted for Obama.
> Obama won because working middleclass america disliked the teaparty far right agenda more.



The Tea Party wasn't even on the radar during trhe last months of the campaign.  Romney was certainly no Tea Party darling and did not rise to political prominance as a Tea Party candidate.

Obama won because, unlike Romney, he was not proposing rolling back any spending that might cost more than 50% of the population a bit in their pocket books, and the left was successful in painting Romney as an out-of-touch clueless rich guy.

That's it in a nutshell.

In the end, promotion of racism and class envy works in many sub cultures in our population, and the unwillingness to give up a single freebie for the good of the country takes care of enough of the rest.

And. . just to stay on topic. . . .mixed in there somewhere is the fact that Obama is black.  It is fashionable to vote for somebody who is black to prove how un-racist you are.  And there is no way that I believe that more than 90% of black Americans voted for Obama because they shared his point of view or even know what it is. 

We still aren't allowed, by some,  to see black people as just people like all other people.  We are required, by some, to always be conscious that they are black.


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## RightNorLeft (Feb 3, 2013)

Meathead said:


> RightNorLeft said:
> 
> 
> > Obama didnt win twice because hes black thats a given. He shouldve never won if racism was still so strong in the USA that it could overide the rich and corporatists in this countries assault on everyone that works for a living and on down.
> ...



 Theres alot of issues people vote on, of course racism played. Many people dont care if its a D or an R after the persons name, dont care if they are male female black white or blue. They vote on a single issue and thats it and whoever they think will give them what they want is who they vote for.
  There are those that dislike obamas agenda hugely, but it could be said more like it since he won twice, right ?


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## Meathead (Feb 3, 2013)

RightNorLeft said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> > RightNorLeft said:
> ...


I suggest you go  through the dialogue and see if you can find an obvious contradiction. We are not children, after all. Seniors, the middle class and Republicans did not vote for Obama. Obama was voted in by a very slim margin (especially for an incumbent) by establishing huge majorities in inner cities and welfare-dependent minorities and liberal whites.

I doubt they would be rallied by a white moderate candidate.


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## Foxfyre (Feb 3, 2013)

RightNorLeft said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> > RightNorLeft said:
> ...



It could be said, but if you look at all the polling data all during the long months of the campaign, the majority of likely voters did NOT like his agenda.   So we are left with two options.  Did they not like Romney's agenda more?   There is absolutely no evidence of that.

So we have to conclude that they were voting their pocketbook.  They may be staunch conservative rightwingers at heart, but they were not willing to give up or even risk whatever government freebies or benefits or opportunities they are getting just to elect a better person.   Do you honestly think he would have received as many votes if they had been told he would allow social security taxes to go back to their current level?


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## Dot Com (Feb 3, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> RightNorLeft said:
> 
> 
> > Obama didnt win twice because hes black thats a given. He shouldve never won if racism was still so strong in the USA that it could overide the rich and corporatists in this countries assault on everyone that works for a living and on down.
> ...



you're missing about 2-3 links to back up all those allegations you made.


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## Foxfyre (Feb 3, 2013)

Dot Com said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > RightNorLeft said:
> ...



That's right.  I am.  A lot more than 2 or 3 in fact.   Because I am expressing what I believe to be my informed opinion.  You are more than welcome to provide whatever links you can find that disputes my opinion, however.  Or make your own argument if you think it is better.


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## Uncensored2008 (Feb 4, 2013)

katsteve2012 said:


> If you are referring to the type that justify their bigotry with their bible thumping, and then after shooting innocent people say "God told me to do it", there should absolutely be an all out assault on wackos like them.



I think he was referring to your bigotry and mindless racism.

Hate filled leftist seeking "revenge" against whites for torts they do not know or grasp. Mainly, you're simply stupid. Because you are stupid, you're easily manipulated. Lacking much intellectual capacity, you're driving by emotion. Those who manipulate you inflame your hatred with daily rants on MSNBC and the leftist hate sites like ThinkProgress. Soon you are another rage filled Obamabot, spewing your racism and ignorance here - for all to see.


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## Truthmatters (Feb 4, 2013)

Grace said:


> Seems that instead of it lessening, its getting stronger. I thought Obama being the first black (half black) president would be encouragement for the races to "settle in" and it not be as bad. And although I know its still rampant in this country, it _seemed_ to be lightening up a smidge and folks were more tolerant...or trying to be, anyway. But to me, since Obama got in office, it is rising to higher pitch.
> Or is it just me?



Its because the closet racists are outing themselves without even realising they are outing themselves


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## Katzndogz (Feb 4, 2013)

If obama had been a decent president, even if he was a decent man, a decent human being, it would be different.  Instead obama is the very dregs of what humanity can offer up and uses skin color to make excuses.


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## katsteve2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > If you are referring to the type that justify their bigotry with their bible thumping, and then after shooting innocent people say "God told me to do it", there should absolutely be an all out assault on wackos like them.
> ...



"All whites" are not bible thumping, gun slinging nut jobs, you whiny imbecile.


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## Uncensored2008 (Feb 4, 2013)

katsteve2012 said:


> "All whites" are not bible thumping, gun slinging nut jobs, you whiny imbecile.



Are there any white people you don't hate?

I can wait while you check with Rachel Maddow to find out what you think.


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## Foxfyre (Feb 4, 2013)

Katzndogz said:


> If obama had been a decent president, even if he was a decent man, a decent human being, it would be different.  Instead obama is the very dregs of what humanity can offer up and uses skin color to make excuses.



Actually I have no reason to think Obama isn't a decent human being.  His perspective and point of view is not much different than many people I personally know who think like he does, but who I know are decent human beings.

Do I think he has been a great President?  No, I don't, and one reason is that I think he has pushed the nanny state, promotion of racism, and class warfare over the brink and now we may never be able to reverse that.  I think history may show his administration as the tipping point in which the majority of the people finally abandoned  the vision of the Founders and we will never again be a people free to govern themselves.


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## AsheedMidrarwz (Feb 14, 2013)

Obama is a liar and a race hustler.  He has done nothing in his life to earn the Presidency.  He fits the media profile that many Americans are indoctrinated to accept.


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## AsheedMidrarwz (Feb 14, 2013)

hiphophomie said:


> Obama is my man. why are you dissing him? Are you afraid of the coming rise of the blacks?



"Coming rise of blacks".  Got a real live racist here, folks.


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## Foxfyre (Feb 14, 2013)

fedupcracker said:


> I think you are right on. Obama wants racial tensions and divisions. Why else would he completely ignore hate crimes by blacks against whites yet be right up on the soap box with the the infamous race hustlers Sharpton and Jackson over the Trayvon Martin issue? I did not see anything done about the new black panthers polling place intimidation or when they openly called for Kill A cracker for Trayvon day. I guess the planned beatings of innocent whites at the Wisconsin state fair are not racially motivated hate crimes either? Obama is a racist period end of story. Ask his former"pastor" or do you think that fool is not a racist? To accurately answer the thread starter. Hell yes racism is worse now than ever. Black on white crimes and flash mob attacks on whites are more and more common every day. But you will never ever hear Obama say anything perpetrated by a black against a YT is a hate crime. This country is completely fucked!



But there are many forms of rascism.  There is the racism that exalts the black man or another race so that the racist can feel noble and righteous.   There is the racism that would subjugate a certain race  or ethnic group and force them into a certain class or role in society.  There is racism that comes from deep prejudice and literally triggers hatred in the racist.

Obama's racism is the kind that capitalizes on racism for personal advantage.  By keeping a minority group dependent, angry, convinced it is disadvantaged and victimized and cannot succeed without "Whitey's" (i.e. government) help, a large voting bloc is guaranteed.  Such group also provides a justification for expansion of big government, socialist/Marxist concepts, and job security for the racists in power.


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## Huey (Feb 14, 2013)

Lasher said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > I think consciousness of race as anything other than an obvious physical characteristic is learned behavior. If it was inate or something people were born with, young children would segregate themselves into groups by racial characteristics. They don't. Not before they are taught to do so.
> ...


 Oh so you say that taking lil white children dressed in those clown outfits you wear watching another human being being lynched is good education.You lay eggs alright but they are not made of gold,in fact they smell like hell,poor kids dont know where to turn when you say the friend they made in kindergarten is no good because of the color of his skin.


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## Michelle420 (Feb 14, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> fedupcracker said:
> 
> 
> > I think you are right on. Obama wants racial tensions and divisions. Why else would he completely ignore hate crimes by blacks against whites yet be right up on the soap box with the the infamous race hustlers Sharpton and Jackson over the Trayvon Martin issue? I did not see anything done about the new black panthers polling place intimidation or when they openly called for Kill A cracker for Trayvon day. I guess the planned beatings of innocent whites at the Wisconsin state fair are not racially motivated hate crimes either? Obama is a racist period end of story. Ask his former"pastor" or do you think that fool is not a racist? To accurately answer the thread starter. Hell yes racism is worse now than ever. Black on white crimes and flash mob attacks on whites are more and more common every day. But you will never ever hear Obama say anything perpetrated by a black against a YT is a hate crime. This country is completely fucked!
> ...



I don't think that it has anything to do with race, Obama is white and black.

He does lean toward social programs and if you were to build an argument of him leaning towards socialism and big government that would probably be more accurate then race.


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## Huey (Feb 14, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> fedupcracker said:
> 
> 
> > I think you are right on. Obama wants racial tensions and divisions. Why else would he completely ignore hate crimes by blacks against whites yet be right up on the soap box with the the infamous race hustlers Sharpton and Jackson over the Trayvon Martin issue? I did not see anything done about the new black panthers polling place intimidation or when they openly called for Kill A cracker for Trayvon day. I guess the planned beatings of innocent whites at the Wisconsin state fair are not racially motivated hate crimes either? Obama is a racist period end of story. Ask his former"pastor" or do you think that fool is not a racist? To accurately answer the thread starter. Hell yes racism is worse now than ever. Black on white crimes and flash mob attacks on whites are more and more common every day. But you will never ever hear Obama say anything perpetrated by a black against a YT is a hate crime. This country is completely fucked!
> ...


 
Black people dont care about the Black pansy's,or what they say.The president is working for all the people,not just whites.He's not racist,but you are. You have never heard him say anything racist about anyone. I bet you said the same thing against "lil boosh".


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## AsheedMidrarwz (Feb 14, 2013)

Huey said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > fedupcracker said:
> ...



The President is working for his agenda and the color of people have nothing to do with it.  He is also a racist because he uses race for political benefit.


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