# How To Afford Universal Health Care.



## fandango (Jul 10, 2018)

The answer is easy.  You make it free, free, FREE!  I will show you a graph of the percentage of GDP that various countries pay for health care.  Many of them have universal health care.  As a percedntage of their countries GDP, they pay much less than Americans do.


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## sparky (Jul 10, 2018)

UHC is _not_ free

~S~


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## WillowTree (Jul 10, 2018)

What does free mean? Is there a health care god who gives you freebies or what?


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## sparky (Jul 10, 2018)




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## fandango (Jul 10, 2018)

sparky said:


> UHC is _not_ free
> 
> ~S~



  To those who don't pay a bill after seeing a doctor, that makes it free enough.  And if you look at the graph, where they do have universal health care, it is at least a lot fucking cheaper.


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## fandango (Jul 10, 2018)

WillowTree said:


> What does free mean? Is there a health care god who gives you freebies or what?



  What free means is that after you see the doctor, or receive any treatment, you don't have to pay anything.  Does that explain "free" to you?


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## sparky (Jul 10, 2018)




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## WillowTree (Jul 10, 2018)

fandango said:


> WillowTree said:
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> > What does free mean? Is there a health care god who gives you freebies or what?
> ...


No! Because nothing is free!


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## WillowTree (Jul 10, 2018)

How about before you see a doctor? Or do doctors work for free?


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## fandango (Jul 10, 2018)

WillowTree said:


> fandango said:
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  How often do you need to be proven wrong.


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## fandango (Jul 10, 2018)

WillowTree said:


> How about before you see a doctor? Or do doctors work for free?



  Before you see a doctor?  Even here it costs nothing to be healthy.  Next, do policemen work for free?  Or how about soldiers.  And in most places, firemen don't work for free either.


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## WillowTree (Jul 10, 2018)

fandango said:


> WillowTree said:
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> > How about before you see a doctor? Or do doctors work for free?
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Oh so the 50% who pay taxes are now expected to give you free healthcare!


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## Toddsterpatriot (Jul 10, 2018)

fandango said:


> The answer is easy.  You make it free, free, FREE!  I will show you a graph of the percentage of GDP that various countries pay for health care.  Many of them have universal health care.  As a percedntage of their countries GDP, they pay much less than Americans do.
> 
> View attachment 204028



*The answer is easy. You make it free, free, FREE!*

Doctors and nurses will work for free?
Drug companies will develop drugs for free?
Hand them out for free?

Cool!!!

I didn't see Cuba in your chart. Weird.


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## Natural Citizen (Jul 10, 2018)

Stop all of the military spending so people can have money in their pockets and they'll be able to afford their healthcare.

The only reason our GDP is where it is is because of  federal spending. Without all of the government spending the GDP would tank. Military spending, by the way, is not defense spending. Two diifferent budgets.

We don't need over a thousand bases occupying the world. unconstitutionaly, I might add. Bring them home, build more bases here, that's real defense spending. Then keep that money in the taxpayers pockets where it belongs so they can afford healthcare.


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## WillowTree (Jul 10, 2018)

Natural Citizen said:


> Stop all of the military spending so people can have money in their pockets and they'll be able to afford their healthcare.
> 
> The only reason out GDP is where it is is because of  federal spending. Without all of the government spending the GDP would tank. Military spending, by the way, is not defense spending. Two diifferent budgets.
> 
> We don't need over a thousand bases occupying the world. unconstitutionaly, I might add. Bring them home, build more bases here, that's real defense spending. Then keep that money in the taxpayers pockets where it belongs so they can afford healthcare.


How will cutting military spending put money in the non taxpayer pocket?


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## Natural Citizen (Jul 10, 2018)

WillowTree said:


> How will cutting military spending put money in the non taxpayer pocket?



It keeps their money from leaving their pockets in the first place. 

Notwithstanding all of the money we're printing, but that's a bigger problem of its own.


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## WillowTree (Jul 10, 2018)

Natural Citizen said:


> WillowTree said:
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> > How will cutting military spending put money in the non taxpayer pocket?
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Well since they don’t pay taxes I don’t see how!


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## Natural Citizen (Jul 10, 2018)

WillowTree said:


> Well since they don’t pay taxes I don’t see how!



The inflation tax which is a consequence of our monetary policy.  It's the most regressive, hidden, tax we pay. And we all pay it unless we're a fat cat who benefits from it.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Jul 10, 2018)

Natural Citizen said:


> WillowTree said:
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> > How will cutting military spending put money in the non taxpayer pocket?
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*Notwithstanding all of the money we're printing,*

The Fed's balance sheet is down $165 billion from a year ago.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Jul 10, 2018)

fandango said:


> sparky said:
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> > UHC is _not_ free
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Those countries have outrageous levels of taxation you tard.


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## Natural Citizen (Jul 10, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *Notwithstanding all of the money we're printing,*
> 
> The Fed's balance sheet is down $165 billion from a year ago.



End the Fed! How's that? What's wrong with letting the market handle things, Toddster? 

The dollar is worth precisely 4 cents right now. 

Can the economic interventionism, can the economic planning by a central bank, can the deficit finincing, can the inflationism, and can the welfare, including the welfare going to the military industrial complex.

How's that. Toddster? What's so bad about that? What's wrong with legalizing the constitution, Toddster? What's wrong with the free market, Toddster?


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## Natural Citizen (Jul 10, 2018)

What's worse is that now they've legalized lying about the effects of inflation on the standard of living. That's what chained cpi does. And the GOP adopted it into their tax plan. That'll put people in higher tax brackets. Along wth the full substitution gag they're playing on consumers.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Jul 10, 2018)

Natural Citizen said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> > *Notwithstanding all of the money we're printing,*
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*The dollar is worth precisely 4 cents right now. *

I don't know what you're using, but my dollars are all worth precisely $1.00

Lenders of last resort are cool.


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## sparky (Jul 11, 2018)

> Math is hard, harder if you're a liberal.. illiterate



~S~


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## frigidweirdo (Jul 11, 2018)

fandango said:


> The answer is easy.  You make it free, free, FREE!  I will show you a graph of the percentage of GDP that various countries pay for health care.  Many of them have universal health care.  As a percedntage of their countries GDP, they pay much less than Americans do.
> 
> View attachment 204028



The reality is that corruption in the US system accounts for a massive amount of the US's GDP.


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## Ecocertifmrl (Jul 11, 2018)

That's a good idea and they thought of it. But rn US is too deep in dept and Putin's shit to manage building such a thing.


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## sparky (Jul 11, 2018)

Natural Citizen said:


> Stop all of the military spending so people can have money in their pockets and they'll be able to afford their healthcare.
> 
> The only reason our GDP is where it is is because of  federal spending. Without all of the government spending the GDP would tank. Military spending, by the way, is not defense spending. Two diifferent budgets.
> 
> We don't need over a thousand bases occupying the world. unconstitutionaly, I might add. Bring them home, build more bases here, that's real defense spending. Then keep that money in the taxpayers pockets where it belongs so they can afford healthcare.









cutting '_free military protection_'  for all those welfare countries our libtard leaders waste our tax $$$ on would result in quite the burden off the taxpayers here 

~S~


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## CrusaderFrank (Jul 11, 2018)

fandango said:


> The answer is easy.  You make it free, free, FREE!  I will show you a graph of the percentage of GDP that various countries pay for health care.  Many of them have universal health care.  As a percedntage of their countries GDP, they pay much less than Americans do.
> 
> View attachment 204028



Who pays for this free stuff?

Also Pittsburgh has more MRI machines than all of Canada. How many people run to Canada for free treatment?????


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 11, 2018)

fandango said:


> The answer is easy.  You make it free, free, FREE!  I will show you a graph of the percentage of GDP that various countries pay for health care.  Many of them have universal health care.  As a percedntage of their countries GDP, they pay much less than Americans do.
> 
> View attachment 204028


Can we make taxes free too?  You know--since free is the answer.


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## Natural Citizen (Jul 11, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> I don't know what you're using, but my dollars are all worth precisely $1.00.



No, they aren't. Your dollars lack store of value.

Don't believe me? Start a thread and whistle for me and I'll explain why. Thoroughly, too. I like debating the market folk.  Ha.

Heck, between the two of us, Toddster, we might be able to figure out where all of the leaks in that big ol bubble of yours are going. Though, I think more practical to figure out why those stocks are priced so high first. Way overpriced, I think. I think I'm onto why, too. Perhaps you might expand on it and share your thoughts on, oh, lets say price fixing, for one thing? I have a few thoughts on it which may or may not require additional input.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Jul 11, 2018)

Natural Citizen said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> > I don't know what you're using, but my dollars are all worth precisely $1.00.
> ...



*No, they aren't.*

They are.

*Your dollars lack store of value.*

If you're holding onto a pile of FRNs to "store value", you may be a moron.

* figure out why those stocks are priced so high first. Way overpriced,*

You should short them. Post it here when you do.

*share your thoughts on, oh, lets say price fixing,*

Fixing of what? By whom?


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 11, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Natural Citizen said:
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What Citizen is saying is that fiat currency is easily manipulated and inflated to the point of ripping people off.

Did the value of gold really triple over a 10 year period?  Or, did the value of an FRN tank?  

In 1900, a $20 gold coin could purchase a complete suit of high-quality clothing.  Go look at the current value of 0.9675 oz gold coin, then check the price of an average Georgio Armani suit.  

Inflation is theft.


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## Natural Citizen (Jul 11, 2018)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> What Citizen is saying is that fiat currency is easily manipulated and inflated to the point of ripping people off.
> 
> Did the value of gold really triple over a 10 year period?  Or, did the value of an FRN tank?
> 
> ...



Toddster knows what I was talking about.  He's  just trolling. Really, Toddster is likely the best troller I've seen on this board. And that's actually a complement. Ha.

Make no mistake, though, he's a Keynesian through and through. Though, I don't know if he actually realizes it. Toddster is a trustee and participant in economic interventionism. And economic planning by a central bank. And deficit finincing. And inflationism. And the welfare state so long as it's his welfare. Toddster is clearly and observably a trustee in the government running the monetary policy and the economy rather than the free market. 

His model for a healthy American monetary policy is so far removed from free-market capitalism that it's laughable when he calls it such.

I think he's grown comfortable popping off in the company of people who might not otherwise understand economic theory and monetary policy.  But those days are gone. Heh heh.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Jul 11, 2018)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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*Did the value of gold really triple over a 10 year period? Or, did the value of an FRN tank?  *

Well, if the value of the FRN tanked, all prices should have tripled. Did they?

*In 1900, a $20 gold coin could purchase a complete suit of high-quality clothing.  Go look at the current value of 0.9675 oz gold coin, then check the price of an average Georgio Armani suit.  *​
In 1999, an ounce of gold could by you a $260 suit. In 2011, an $1800 suit, today a $1250 suit.
Are those equivalent suits?
​*Inflation is theft.*​
Ok.
​


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## Flash (Jul 11, 2018)

*"Free"????  LOL!*


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## fncceo (Jul 11, 2018)

How to afford health care? ...

... pay your premiums.


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## dblack (Jul 11, 2018)

fandango said:


> The answer is easy.  You make it free, free, FREE!  I will show you a graph of the percentage of GDP that various countries pay for health care.  Many of them have universal health care.  As a percedntage of their countries GDP, they pay much less than Americans do.
> 
> View attachment 204028




Better than free, have government PAY people to go to the doctor! Then we'll be extra healthy!

Also, hookers and blow.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Jul 11, 2018)

dblack said:


> fandango said:
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> > The answer is easy.  You make it free, free, FREE!  I will show you a graph of the percentage of GDP that various countries pay for health care.  Many of them have universal health care.  As a percedntage of their countries GDP, they pay much less than Americans do.
> ...



We'll be so healthy, we'll save trillions!!!!


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## fandango (Jul 11, 2018)

WillowTree said:


> fandango said:
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  If they want to earn more, they should.  Because if so much of our GDP wasn't going toward healthcare, it would naturally go somewhere else.  Such as in "the 50% who pay taxes's" wallets.


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## fandango (Jul 11, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> fandango said:
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> > The answer is easy.  You make it free, free, FREE!  I will show you a graph of the percentage of GDP that various countries pay for health care.  Many of them have universal health care.  As a percedntage of their countries GDP, they pay much less than Americans do.
> ...



  No.  Doctors and nurses would get their health care for free.  And maybe with that burden being taken off their backs, they would be willing to work for a little less pay.  As for drug companies, fuck them!  Raising the price of a drug that has been around for a long time by 100,000%?!  They need to be fucking SHOT!


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## Darkwind (Jul 11, 2018)

fandango said:


> WillowTree said:
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> > What does free mean? Is there a health care god who gives you freebies or what?
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So, this paragon treated you for nothing.  The doctor didn't get paid?


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## fandango (Jul 11, 2018)

Natural Citizen said:


> Stop all of the military spending so people can have money in their pockets and they'll be able to afford their healthcare.
> 
> The only reason our GDP is where it is is because of  federal spending. Without all of the government spending the GDP would tank. Military spending, by the way, is not defense spending. Two diifferent budgets.
> 
> We don't need over a thousand bases occupying the world. unconstitutionaly, I might add. Bring them home, build more bases here, that's real defense spending. Then keep that money in the taxpayers pockets where it belongs so they can afford healthcare.



  Well you see, the U.S. is so incredibly fucked up that we have to PAY other countries to tollerate us.  Such as by having military bases in their country.  Which we no doubt have to pay for.  And our soldiers also can spend their pay there.  I on the other hand would like to see a lot of those bases in the U.S. too.  With many along the U.S.-mexico border.


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## fandango (Jul 11, 2018)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


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  Not as high as you would like people to think it is, tard.  And they get a LOT more for it.  You should watch the documentary "Where to invade."  I don't agree with absolutely everything in it.  But it does make some good points.


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## fandango (Jul 11, 2018)

dblack said:


> fandango said:
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> > The answer is easy.  You make it free, free, FREE!  I will show you a graph of the percentage of GDP that various countries pay for health care.  Many of them have universal health care.  As a percedntage of their countries GDP, they pay much less than Americans do.
> ...



  No.  Just make it free.  Then hookers would have less need to hook.  And if they do, they would be less likely to be diseased.  Also, people would have a little less reason to do drugs.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jul 11, 2018)

fandango said:


> sparky said:
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> > UHC is _not_ free
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We can make everything FREE!

Just go into any store and walk out!


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## fandango (Jul 11, 2018)

frigidweirdo said:


> fandango said:
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> > The answer is easy.  You make it free, free, FREE!  I will show you a graph of the percentage of GDP that various countries pay for health care.  Many of them have universal health care.  As a percedntage of their countries GDP, they pay much less than Americans do.
> ...



  Corruption is a different matter.  But with our health care system as it is now, much of what could have gone toward actual health care is spent on pointless bureaucracy.


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## fandango (Jul 11, 2018)

Ecocertifmrl said:


> That's a good idea and they thought of it. But rn US is too deep in dept and Putin's shit to manage building such a thing.



  The U.S. is too far in debt to pay less for health care?


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## sparky (Jul 11, 2018)

fandango said:


> Corruption is a different matter. But with our health care system as it is now, much of what could have gone toward actual health care is spent on pointless bureaucracy.



Grand example of cognitive dissonance 

~S~


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## sparky (Jul 11, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> We can make everything FREE!



sure

let us know how that works out

~S~


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## fandango (Jul 11, 2018)

sparky said:


> Natural Citizen said:
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> > Stop all of the military spending so people can have money in their pockets and they'll be able to afford their healthcare.
> ...



  From what I have seen here and there, there is something around 2.5 trillion dollars that the military can't account for.  That kind of money can buy quite a lot.


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## sparky (Jul 11, 2018)

Do tell  Fandango

You 'spose they're all getting custom haircuts ?

~S~


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## Weatherman2020 (Jul 11, 2018)

sparky said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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> > We can make everything FREE!
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I want to interview the two chicks from the 08 Obama victory screaming for joy about all the free stuff heading their way.


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## fandango (Jul 11, 2018)

CrusaderFrank said:


> fandango said:
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> > The answer is easy.  You make it free, free, FREE!  I will show you a graph of the percentage of GDP that various countries pay for health care.  Many of them have universal health care.  As a percedntage of their countries GDP, they pay much less than Americans do.
> ...



  Who pays for the excess amount of GDP that the U.S. pays for health care.  Also, in countries with universal health care, nobody becomes homeless or becomes bankrupt because of medical bills.  Or outright dies due to denied coverage.  But it sure as hell happens here.  Also, there are far more people in the U.S. than in Canada.  Of course we are going to have more MRI machines.  As for running to Canada for free treatment, we aren't mexicans.


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## dblack (Jul 11, 2018)

fandango said:


> dblack said:
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I guess if you mean 'free', as in 'free of coerce restraint', I'm all for it. Make health care free again!

But I'm guessing you have something more subtle, and less rational, in mind.


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## fandango (Jul 11, 2018)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> fandango said:
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> 
> > The answer is easy.  You make it free, free, FREE!  I will show you a graph of the percentage of GDP that various countries pay for health care.  Many of them have universal health care.  As a percedntage of their countries GDP, they pay much less than Americans do.
> ...



  Basically, taxes ARE free!  When the time comes around to get your tax returns, don't you get most of it back?  Mostly, all the government is doing is burrowing it for a while.


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## CrusaderFrank (Jul 11, 2018)

fandango said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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So you're off of that "free healthcare " nonsense.  Good, I've made progress


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## fandango (Jul 11, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> fandango said:
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  It wouldn't be quite as simple as that.  But basically, yes we can.  After all, in the military an officer can say, "Go paint that building."  There is no quibbling about how much the soldier might expect to get paid for doing that particular job.


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## fandango (Jul 11, 2018)

sparky said:


> fandango said:
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> > Corruption is a different matter. But with our health care system as it is now, much of what could have gone toward actual health care is spent on pointless bureaucracy.
> ...



  Blow me.  Insults will fet you nowhere.  Take insurance companies.  When it comes to universal health care, they ARE a pointless bureaucracy.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jul 11, 2018)

fandango said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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Clueless. Military has a budget.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jul 11, 2018)

fandango said:


> Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:
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You must earn minimum wage.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Jul 11, 2018)

fandango said:


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Of course, because CUBA!!!


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Jul 11, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Natural Citizen said:
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> > *Notwithstanding all of the money we're printing,*
> ...



Don't worry, the Republicans will fix that.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Jul 11, 2018)

fandango said:


> Not as high as you would like people to think it is, tard.  And they get a LOT more for it.  You should watch the documentary "Where to invade."  I don't agree with absolutely everything in it.  But it does make some good points.



It's a lot higher than you think it is and no, they really don't get a lot more for it.  The U.S. ranks number one in quality of health care and you also have much better odds of surviving serious illnesses here than in Europe, not to mention the wait times here to be seen are far less.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Jul 11, 2018)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


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The Republicans are going to expand the Fed's balance sheet? 
Why do you feel that?


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Jul 11, 2018)

fandango said:


> Also, in countries with universal health care, nobody becomes homeless or becomes bankrupt because of medical bills.



*Illness or Medical Problems*
_Even with government health care in Canada, a major illness, injury or other health related problems can affect both your income and your living expenses.  Not all medical costs are covered by health care or insurance. You may have found it necessary to take time off work to recover from your health problems. Without supplemental insurance benefits, you may have used credit cards to pay for both your medical costs and every-day living expenses for a while. If you are unable to return to work, your disability income may not be enough to pay off your debts.  There is little you can do to prepare for an unexpected medical issue other than ensure that you have insurance and adequate savings to support you for a short period of time._

Top 5 Causes of Bankruptcy | Bankruptcy Canada











> Or outright dies due to denied coverage.  But it sure as hell happens here.



Patient denied lifesaving transplant from cousin - because Home Office won't let him in UK

Sentenced to death for being old: The NHS denies life-saving treatment to the elderly, as one man's chilling story reveals | Daily Mail Online

Amber Cliff dies of cervical cancer after refused smear test for being too young | Metro News

Canadian doctors refuse treatment, let man die of bladder infection


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## frigidweirdo (Jul 11, 2018)

fandango said:


> frigidweirdo said:
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Well, there is pointless bureaucracy, isn't the corruption? Allowing people to leech off the system, to me, is corruption.


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## Ecocertifmrl (Jul 12, 2018)

fandango said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
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> > That's a good idea and they thought of it. But rn US is too deep in dept and Putin's shit to manage building such a thing.
> ...


Such a system is expensive to put up.


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## dblack (Jul 12, 2018)

frigidweirdo said:


> fandango said:
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You're advocating for a system that is, essentially, a leech-fest. Hypocrite much?

I mean I get it, you think framing it that way will appeal to stingy conservatives, but it just makes your whole argument seem fake.


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## fandango (Jul 12, 2018)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> fandango said:
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> > Not as high as you would like people to think it is, tard.  And they get a LOT more for it.  You should watch the documentary "Where to invade."  I don't agree with absolutely everything in it.  But it does make some good points.
> ...



  Watch the documentary I mentioned.  Then get back to me on that.  Though as far as tax rates go by country, I looked it up in wiki.  They have too many categories to make any sense of it.  Which the U.S. probably likes.  As to who is more likely to survive, with how much we pay for it, I would expect that.  But the U.S. isn't the best when it comes to life expectancy.  

  As far as wait times, I never got medical treatment in another country.  So I wouldn't know.  But I used to see one doctor where I would have to wait an hour and a half to see him.  On one visit, I was just about one minute late.  Which given how long I would have had to wait to see him was nothing.  They sent me home because I was late.


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## fandango (Jul 12, 2018)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> fandango said:
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> > Also, in countries with universal health care, nobody becomes homeless or becomes bankrupt because of medical bills.
> ...



  You aren't saying anything.  A toothache probably hurts as much in Canada as it does in the U.S.


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## fandango (Jul 12, 2018)

frigidweirdo said:


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  You are a leech too.  In one way or another, everybody is a leech.  But having universal health care isn't being a leech.  It is being part of a society.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Jul 12, 2018)

fandango said:


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What I just said was you have no idea what you are fucking talking about and I proved it to you multiple times. If you want to keep wallowing in your own ignorance and stupidity be my guest. It’s your life.


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## fandango (Jul 12, 2018)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> fandango said:
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  Did you even actually look at my thread?  It shows what percentage of GDP for various countries goes towards health care.  All of the countries that have universal health care pay less as a percentage of their countries GDP for it.  You are the one who doesn't understand.  Instead you want to bring up bullshit about what the average citizen pays in taxes.  For any economy, the GDP is the tally.  Taxes are just bullshit.  

  For one reason, do you pay taxes?  Don't you get most of them back when tax return time rolls around?  And when that happens, can't you afford to buy a more expensive item than you might otherwise have been able to afford?  So in that regard, the government is actually doing you a favor by taxing you!


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## Political Junky (Aug 13, 2018)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> fandango said:
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> > sparky said:
> ...


Name a country that would prefer US health care to their own.


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## Darkwind (Aug 13, 2018)

I spend 3,400 dollars a year on healthcare.

I'll take that over the 12k that Canadians are paying.


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## Political Junky (Aug 13, 2018)

Darkwind said:


> I spend 3,400 dollars a year on healthcare.
> 
> I'll take that over the 12k that Canadians are paying.


Does your plan pay 100% of your medical bills as Canada does?


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## Darkwind (Aug 13, 2018)

Political Junky said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > I spend 3,400 dollars a year on healthcare.
> ...


My plan isn't in charge of My lifestyle either.

Do you believe that every person has a responsibility to their own life or no?

The fact remains.  I pay less than 4k dollars a year in health insurance.  (Lets be honest about what we are talking about here, it is insurance, not medical care).

That means that if I have been paying into the insurance company 4k dollars a year for 10 years, and I have a heart attack, they will have to fork over 80% of a 200k bill.

That means they will have to pay 160k dollars for My 40k dollar payment.

So, for 200k dollars worth of coverage, I pay 80k dollars.  (4k a year with 4k deductible per year)   In case you missed out, that is half of the bill.

Now, in Canada, I am paying 12k per year in taxes for everyone's healthcare.  That is 120k per the same 10 year period.

That means I have saved 40k dollars by not living in Canada.

Tell Me again what a deal it is?


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## fncceo (Aug 13, 2018)

Political Junky said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> > fandango said:
> ...



Isn't what Americans prefer the only important question?


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## frigidweirdo (Aug 13, 2018)

Political Junky said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> > fandango said:
> ...



Somalia.


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## Political Junky (Aug 13, 2018)

Darkwind said:


> Political Junky said:
> 
> 
> > Darkwind said:
> ...


Good luck when your hospital bill is hundreds of thousands of dollars for a life-threatening illness.


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## Political Junky (Aug 13, 2018)

fncceo said:


> Political Junky said:
> 
> 
> > Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> ...


You speak for all Americans?


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## Political Junky (Aug 13, 2018)

Americans don’t yet know whether they really support single-payer

The Pew Research Center found that *45 percent* of Americans ages 18 to 29 — including *66 percent* of those who identify as Democrats — supported single-payer health care. Lake explicitly credited Sanders with galvanizing interest in single-payer among younger voters.Sep 13, 2017


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## frigidweirdo (Aug 13, 2018)

Political Junky said:


> Americans don’t yet know whether they really support single-payer
> 
> The Pew Research Center found that *45 percent* of Americans ages 18 to 29 — including *66 percent* of those who identify as Democrats — supported single-payer health care. Lake explicitly credited Sanders with galvanizing interest in single-payer among younger voters.Sep 13, 2017



How many even really understand what single player is? They simply hear "it's Communist" and they reject it, without understanding it.


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## Darkwind (Aug 13, 2018)

Political Junky said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > Political Junky said:
> ...


Wow, I literally just posted that.  And I overstated how much I was paying.

Wow.


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## fncceo (Aug 13, 2018)

Political Junky said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> > Political Junky said:
> ...



Not at all.   The ballot speaks for Americans. 

They elected a President with very different ideas about healthcare than his predecessor.


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## dblack (Aug 13, 2018)

frigidweirdo said:


> How many even really understand what single player is? They simply hear "it's Communist" and they reject it, without understanding it.



Some of them, no doubt. Just like some hear socialism and just think "free stuff". Lots of idiots out there voting.


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## Daryl Hunt (Sep 17, 2018)

Okay, let's put all of it in perspective.

You are being murdered.  A cop is standing nearby.  He doesn't work for free.  Before he will do anything you have to pay him.  Otherwise, you are free to continue to be murdered.  Have that credit card on hand unless the bad guy already got it.

Your house is on fire and you call the fire department.  They need to bill your credit card before they will dispatch the trucks and fire fighters to your location.  You mean you only have a Debit Card and it will exceed the money in your account?  Your house burns to the ground then.  I doubt if there will be time to take out a loan in time to save your house.

This is the health care we have today.  If that doesn't scare the hell out of you, think of if the Cops and Firefighters operated the same way.


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## fncceo (Sep 17, 2018)

Daryl Hunt said:


> Okay, let's put all of it in perspective.
> 
> You are being murdered.  A cop is standing nearby.  He doesn't work for free.  Before he will do anything you have to pay him.  Otherwise, you are free to continue to be murdered.  Have that credit card on hand unless the bad guy already got it.
> 
> ...



Health insurance, like police and fire, are prepaid.  The pre-payment of health costs takes the form of health insurance, which every responsible adult either fits into their budget, or takes step to self-fund.


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## frigidweirdo (Sep 17, 2018)

fandango said:


> The answer is easy.  You make it free, free, FREE!  I will show you a graph of the percentage of GDP that various countries pay for health care.  Many of them have universal health care.  As a percedntage of their countries GDP, they pay much less than Americans do.
> 
> View attachment 204028



The UK has universal healthcare, and spends LESS per capita on it than the US federal government spends on healthcare in the US.


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## frigidweirdo (Sep 17, 2018)

sparky said:


> UHC is _not_ free
> 
> ~S~



But pedantic is free. You know he means "free at the point of delivery", so why do you bother to go out of your way to be as pedantic as possible?


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## Daryl Hunt (Sep 17, 2018)

fncceo said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, let's put all of it in perspective.
> ...



No, they aren't.  You pay your taxes and the Police and Fire Forces are paid out of that.  You don't have to take out any insurance.  It's not private, it's public through taxes and everyone pays those taxes through sales, property,and more.  If you want to place health on the same level,you  place cops and firefighters in private corporations that you must have private insurance in order for you to utilize their services.  The Cop will show up, check to see if you have the proper and current card, and then if you do, then keep you from being murdered.  If not, he'll stand there and watch the knife go in 17 times.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Sep 17, 2018)

frigidweirdo said:


> fandango said:
> 
> 
> > The answer is easy.  You make it free, free, FREE!  I will show you a graph of the percentage of GDP that various countries pay for health care.  Many of them have universal health care.  As a percedntage of their countries GDP, they pay much less than Americans do.
> ...



*The UK has universal healthcare, and spends LESS per capita on it*

Well, sure, when you restrict the supply, require long waiting periods and don't spend on the newest drugs and newest equipment, you can save lots of money.


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## Daryl Hunt (Sep 18, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> > fandango said:
> ...



And you think think that Medicare is different there?  I tried to use Civilian Medicare.  I could only get the really bad doctors in the really poor clinics with the poor services with the long waiting periods.  This was during the time period when the VA was disgraceful.  The  VA got much,  much better.  I learned the key phrase to use to get excellent service from the the VA.  Just comment that I am being sent home to die.  To avoid a possible bad PR, they will fall all over themselves to avoid any hint of bad PR.  Meanwhile, the civilian medical is a complete mess.  What's even sadder, if I do use the civilian medical,I am 100% covered with both Medicare and Tricare less 175 bucks per year.  One would think I  would not have a problem getting civilian care.  But it's the fact part of it is medicare that is the problem.  The Civilian medical won't look any further than that.  More and more doctors are refusing to take medicare these days or medicaid these days.  

My opinion of the Silly Villian Medical System is that it should be universal.   That way the picking and choosing would end and Doctors can get back to being Doctors again.


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## dblack (Sep 18, 2018)

Daryl Hunt said:


> That way the picking and choosing would end and Doctors can get back to being Doctors again.



Abolish picking and choosing. Submit to universal health care.


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## Maxdeath (Sep 18, 2018)

Natural Citizen said:


> Stop all of the military spending so people can have money in their pockets and they'll be able to afford their healthcare.
> 
> The only reason our GDP is where it is is because of  federal spending. Without all of the government spending the GDP would tank. Military spending, by the way, is not defense spending. Two diifferent budgets.
> 
> We don't need over a thousand bases occupying the world. unconstitutionaly, I might add. Bring them home, build more bases here, that's real defense spending. Then keep that money in the taxpayers pockets where it belongs so they can afford healthcare.


First off we only have 662 bases in thirty eight countries not 1,000.
Second if we close those bases not only do we increase our own unemployment but we increase unemployment in the countries where those bases are located. 
Third we cut down on the needed materials to supply those bases such as food, clothing, planes and all the other parts. This means more people out of work that build, grow or produce theses needed supplies.
Lastly NATO and others will feel that they can not trust our word to help protect them. We would not have a rapid response to threats. Our standing on the world stage would diminish to nothing.

So yes bring them home crash our economy. Crash  our standing with our allies and the world in general. That will in no way help anyone and will put no money in everyone's pocket.


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## dblack (Sep 18, 2018)

Maxdeath said:


> Natural Citizen said:
> 
> 
> > Stop all of the military spending so people can have money in their pockets and they'll be able to afford their healthcare.
> ...



All these dependencies and expectations can be phased out sanely. And should be.


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## Maxdeath (Sep 18, 2018)

dblack said:


> Maxdeath said:
> 
> 
> > Natural Citizen said:
> ...


Oh it could be done but to do it would mean not in the lifetime of children being born today. In other words it would take generations. I doubt most of those wanting health care are willing to wait that long. 

Not to mention that you will have numourous countries seeing this as an abandonment on the part of the U.S.


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## dblack (Sep 18, 2018)

Maxdeath said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > Maxdeath said:
> ...



I see no reason to drag it out. I'm sure it will piss a lot of people off - a lot of them have a sweet ride on the gravy train - but that's no reason to continue bad policy.


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## Maxdeath (Sep 18, 2018)

dblack said:


> Maxdeath said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...


Oh I am sorry I thought you said sanely.  As I stated doing it in two five or even a generation would create a depression that would make everyone wish it was as good as the Great Depression. It takes millions of dollars to build a single base. Who is going to pay for even building one not to mention 600?


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## sparky (Sep 18, 2018)

Foriegn policy extortion in the guise of democracy building is a looser game Max

'eff those countries, quit payin' for them slackedrs

~S~


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## Maxdeath (Sep 18, 2018)

sparky said:


> Foriegn policy extortion in the guise of democracy building is a looser game Max
> 
> 'eff those countries, quit payin' for them slackedrs
> 
> ~S~


I could care less about foreign policy. Where are you going to put that many people? If you close down one base a year it will take almost 500 or six hundred years. If you close down ten in a year you are talking 50 years. It is a simple matter of numbers. There are not just military personnel involved. There are those such as record keepers, support staff and others. It is not like you are talking eight or ten people per base.

As far as foreign policy that is what the losers that were whining about Trump speaking harsh to NATO and North Korea were so concerned about. So just convince the wake left that democracy building is a loser game. I don't care I am only looking at the economics.


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## sparky (Sep 18, 2018)

Maxdeath said:


> Where are you going to put that many people?



How's about the mexican boarder?

I'd be a LOT happier knowing my taxes are going to protect Americans that some sh*tholistan country that thumbs their islamic noses at us Max

~S~


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## Maxdeath (Sep 18, 2018)

sparky said:


> Maxdeath said:
> 
> 
> > Where are you going to put that many people?
> ...


So are you offering to build 600 or so bases on the border on your dime or are you planing to start a go fund me?

You might want to learn just a little bit here. The largest part of all countries south of us are Catholic not Muslim.


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## ThisIsMe (Sep 18, 2018)

fandango said:


> The answer is easy.  You make it free, free, FREE!  I will show you a graph of the percentage of GDP that various countries pay for health care.  Many of them have universal health care.  As a percedntage of their countries GDP, they pay much less than Americans do.
> 
> View attachment 204028


So, I actually had an interesting encounter last night. 

I was out of town, and checked in to a hotel. I noticed the girl behind the counter had a British accent. 

I was asking her what brought her to America. She said her parents were divorced and she spent the school year in one place and summers in the other. 

I asked her what made her decide to live in America, as opposed to England. 

Now, I didn't have a long drawn out conversation with her, was just curious. 

She said that she is studying to be a doctor and that if she studied in England, she would never be able to practice medicine in America. Curious, I asked why that was. She said that medicine in England is lacking, and that one summer, she broke her arm and the doctors just put it in a cast, no x ray and didn't set the bone. It wasnt until she came to America that the properly treated her. 

She said the reason was universal health care. Health care in England is free, if you need to go to the doctor, there is no charge. As a result, doctors in England are very under paid. 

She also went on to say that, in england, becoming a nurse is something one does as a last resort, if you cant find anything else to do.


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## sparky (Sep 19, 2018)

~S~[/QUOTE]


> So are you offering to build 600 or so bases on the border on your dime or are you planing to start a go fund me?



Nope, the 600 odd bases around this rock are a waste of our tax $$ Max, total handouts to sh*thole countries



> You might want to learn just a little bit here. The largest part of all countries south of us are Catholic not Muslim



I could give a sweet sh*t if they worship the wiz of Oz & bark at the moon , if they are a threat to our boarders, then THAT is where our tax $$$and troops should be

~S~[/QUOTE]


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## dblack (Sep 19, 2018)

Affording universal health care is easy. In fact, we can get everything we need the same way. First, we give all our money to government. Then, they provide us with everything we need. Easy peasy. You guys are over thinking it.


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## Likkmee (Sep 19, 2018)

The problem with those countries is they have shitty street drugs


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## Maxdeath (Sep 19, 2018)

sparky said:


> ~S~





> So are you offering to build 600 or so bases on the border on your dime or are you planing to start a go fund me?



Nope, the 600 odd bases around this rock are a waste of our tax $$ Max, total handouts to sh*thole countries



> You might want to learn just a little bit here. The largest part of all countries south of us are Catholic not Muslim



I could give a sweet sh*t if they worship the wiz of Oz & bark at the moon , if they are a threat to our boarders, then THAT is where our tax $$$and troops should be

~S~[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
You are the one that brought up closing bases. I have asked how you plan to do that without causing a depression. 
Not to mention that in all of our history there has not really been a time that the budget was balanced. So how do you plan to build bases on the border as you claim without blowing the budget out of the water?

So yell and kick your hells all you want. Temper tantrums are not an answer.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Sep 28, 2018)

fandango said:


> The answer is easy.  You make it free, free, FREE!



1) nothing is free, socialism does not make things cheaper, socialist countries are poorer
2) USA has 70% of Da Vinci robots for surgery, for example, so much of our money goes for innovations that the world latter adopts


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