# 9-11….. Startling New Evidence of a Conspiracy



## TheProgressivePatriot (Dec 17, 2016)

_Note: I am aware of the fact that there are several other open treads on 9-11 However, they have long been dormant since shortly after they was started earlier this year. In addition, none of them feature the film that I recently discovered. This is different. This is compelling and worth a look!_

*This is an amazing, and eye opening film that may well change everything that you thought you knew or that you believed about what happened on  9.11.01.*

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/physics-study-911-controlled-demolition/

It is long. Over an hour. But if you just watch the first 10 or 15 minutes,  you will certainly get the idea.

Now let me be clear, I was never a conspiracy theorists. I did not consider myself a 9-11 truther and I’m yet 100% convinced that we have been lied to. However, I am leaning in that direction.

The basic premise of the film is that the two planes alone did not bring the three building, WTC 1,2, and 7 down – that the collapses were caused, at least aided, by “controlled demolitions.  Indeed, no plane had hit WTC 7! It is alleged that there was deliberate destruction of evidence, explosions not caused by the planes, and a symmetrical collapse of all three  buildings consistent with a controlled demolition.

The film is narrated by *Richard Gaga* of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, an organization of 2,300 professionals who are demanding an independent investigation, and features a long succession of architects, engineers, various other scientists all of whom are quite credible. It also features eye witnesses who saw and heard things that are not explained and can’t be explained by the official version of what happened.   

There is no dirt to be found on this organization. They are credible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architects_%26_Engineers_for_9/11_Truth

Here is the official site: http://www1.ae911truth.org/en/news-section/41-articles/928-nists-wtc-7-reports-filled-with-fantasy-fiction-and-fraud-pt1.html

It is interesting to note that while it’s alleged that the plot was much wider than the hijackers, the report specifically avoids pointing any fingers or speculating on motive so as not to distract from the forensic evidence.

The film that you are about to see was published in the Free Thought Project  http://thefreethoughtproject.com/

You will see that while the stories that they publish are provocative and under-reported in the main stream media, it is not “fake news” or conspiracy theories from the fringes of reality

Now to be fair, I am not without my doubts. We know that planes actually did hit the towers and that they were controlled by terrorists. But were there additional terrorists on the ground who planted explosives in all three building? Would that have even been possible?  And, if they were expert enough to plant the bombs so strategically as to bring the buildings down, why did they bother to hijack planes?

Another possibility that some entity other than the terrorists- such as the Bush Administration- planted the bombs. Did they know about the plot ( as some have previously alleged ) and, rather than stopping it, planted to explosives to make certain of the outcome. Farfetched?  I don’t know.

That brings me to the authors and publishers of the study and documentary. As I said Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, appear to be highly credible. However, here is a site that says that it is all bunk. You can decide for yourself.

http://www.debunking911.com/index.html

Now not being a scientist, I will not attempt to argue the conflicting scientific theories (although I do find the evidence for a controlled demolition very compelling) . However, they also attack the credibility and credentials of the chief author of the study Professor Steven E. Jones:



> To be clear, let me restate the test which makes a real scientific paper. It has to be published in a respected scientific journal. As an example, The Journal of Engineering Mechanics is a well respected scientific journal. The peer review process is tough and precise. The reviewers are well respected in their fields of expertise. The Journal of the American Chemical Society is another which Jones can submit his papers. There are many well respected journals which have an impact in the scientific community. Bentham, where Jones has submitted his latest paper, is the Wiki of Journals. They have been criticized in the past for passing "gibberish".
> 
> One editor resigned after learning Jones paper passed their review. It seems the reviewers are told of the paper AFTER they are passed! Amazing!
> 
> Though Jones may have found the perfect home for his latest attempt at peer-review, it is far from a respected scientific journal. Will Jones ever publish in a "respected scientific journal"? Do they want legitimacy or a talking points?





So where does that leave us? Deep into more uncertainty. Jones was published in _Europhysics News_  which appears to be highly credible and widely respected:

https://billlawrenceonline.com/europhysics-news-trutherism/

_Europhysics News Trutherism_ — Trutherism, the belief that Al-Qaeda terrorists were not entirely behind the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks, received a boost, Aug. 24, in the latest issue of _Europhysics News_ which carries an article claiming that the World Trade Center was brought down by controlled demolition.

The magazine is published by the prestigious European Physical Society.



> The authors of the piece are Steven Jones, a former full professor of physics at Brigham Young University; Robert Korol, a professor emeritus of civil engineering at McMaster University in Ontario, Canada; Anthony Szamboti, a mechanical design engineer; and Ted Walter, who holds master of public policy degree from the University of California, Berkeley.
> 
> The authors cite, among other things, the lack of heat to melt, or adequately weaken, the girders to cause the collapse.
> 
> ...



However, even here there is dissention:



> The authors Thomas W. Eagar and Christopher Musso, however, don’t feel the need to deny what was before everyone’s eyes. Their article points out that temperature along the 18-meter long joists was certainly not uniform and that given the thermal expansion of steel, a 300 F temperature difference from one location to another will produce yield-level residual stresses hence causing distortions resulting in buckling failures
> 
> Jones et al makes the point that fire never collapsed a skyscraper before 9/11 and has yet to bring one down since.
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> The rebuttal to this is that jet aircraft have never been flown into skyscrapers before or since. Further, a fire, while not collapsing a skyscraper, did make One Meridan Plaza in Philadelphia unstable enough to cause its demolition.



Again, I’m not going to attempt to evaluate the science. I am just presenting what has been said. I’m not trying to sell anything here. My intention is to stimulate discussion, elicit opinions, and to get a sense of how people, in general are leaning.

Finally, the is https://www.gspellchecker.com/2016/09/debunking-conspiracies-spread-some-truth-on-the-anniversary-of-911/#more-4482

This is apparently an Atheistic leaning  site and as such, I, an atheist, give a certain amount of credibility to. They support the “conventional or main stream explanation for 9-11 and reject the conspiracy- controlled demolition theory and provide  a link to the aforementioned . http://www.debunking911.com/index.html.  I'm just not completely convinced, but as I said, leaning towards a conspiracy.

That’s it folks! Have at it .Don’t troll me bro. I’m just the messenger!


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## fncceo (Dec 17, 2016)

Seriously?


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Dec 17, 2016)

fncceo said:


> Seriously?



I see that you put a lot of thought into that response 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MisterBeale (Dec 17, 2016)




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## MisterBeale (Dec 17, 2016)




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## Pete7469 (Dec 17, 2016)




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## dcbl (Dec 17, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> This is compelling and worth a look!




no

it's not

this is just more fringest and radical bullshit

don't you have Russians to be worried about right now???


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## fncceo (Dec 17, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> I see that you put a lot of thought into that response



More than you took to copy-and-paste from some whacko website.


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## Pete7469 (Dec 17, 2016)

regressive parasite said:
			
		

> I was never a conspiracy theorists. I did not consider myself a 9-11 truther and I’m yet 100% convinced that we have been lied to. However, I am leaning in that direction.



LOL....

In order to be the bed wetting libturd parasite you are, you have to be inclined to lean towards bullshit. You're standing in it everywhere you go. It's the foundation of the philosophy you embrace. That's why it's so easy for you and your treasonous fellow travelers to believe the Russians influenced the vote significantly enough to get Trump elected, rather than recognize most people do not want to be ruled over by a criminally insane totalitarian sociopath hag.

Thanks for the laugh moonbat. 

Now go play in traffic.


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## GLASNOST (Dec 17, 2016)

dcbl said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
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The Russians? You're going to blame the Russians for the 7/11 attack as well?


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## dcbl (Dec 17, 2016)

GLASNOST said:


> You're going to blame the Russians for the 7/11 attack as well?




no sir

attacks on 7 11 stores (which are usually run by Muslims or Indians) are mostly carried out by Hispanics and Africans

I hope that helps to clear things up for you...


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## GLASNOST (Dec 17, 2016)

dcbl said:


> GLASNOST said:
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Very much so, thank you.


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## Moonglow (Dec 17, 2016)

Steven Jones can barely punch his way out of a wet paper bag. I argued this out with him years ago and spun circles around him. There was no controlled demolition, it;s a complete farce put forward by people that either can't think or are conspiracy enthusiasts.


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## Penelope (Dec 17, 2016)

Yes I agree and I have put a lot of time into this , read everything and watched all the films and all the players that were involved.  I also have an idea who the mastermind was behind it.  I even investigated the  hosps and they waited and waited for patients and most were first responders and a few others. The main thing is Silverstein and his two kids were not there, which he was always in the restaurant.  Building 7 was the clencher and when Silverstein said to pull it and down it came, it became obvious, esp seeing who was housed in building # 7. This was the same time of Enron stuff as well.  Anyway, I believe only a few knew the whole plan, Bush new something big was going to happen, and everyone carried about a role but didn't know the whole plan.  The towers were full of asbestos and they could never due a demolition without removal of the asbestos costing NY city mega bucks, anyway I could go on , but yes I believe it was planned to move us into war in the ME, Iraq, and to get the America people behind the war and to hide lots of stuff.  I believe they were in the remodeled command center in building 7 and left when Silverstein go the call to pull it.

There are many posts on this site.

Bibi's father told him that planes would fly into the twin towers in the early 90's. Crystal Ball?


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2016)

Breaking News.......

Inside job......Inside job


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2016)

Just thinking

No skyscraper has ever survived a direct hit from a jetliner


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## Penelope (Dec 17, 2016)

dcbl said:


> GLASNOST said:
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> > You're going to blame the Russians for the 7/11 attack as well?
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No its mostly by American engineers , well trained and not Muslims, and also Pilots.


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## dcbl (Dec 17, 2016)

GLASNOST said:


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no problem brah - just having fun on a message board...


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## Freewill (Dec 17, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


>


Tell that to the liberty bridge:  Liberty Bridge near collapse if fire hadn't been extinguished


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## psikeyhackr (Dec 17, 2016)

Screw the conspiracies.

Why hasn't any engineering school done a physical or virtual model of the north tower collapse in 15 years?

It only took 4 months to build a 50 foot model of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge to duplicate the oscillations in a wind tunnel.

Just simulate the north tower and remove 5 stories, 91 through 95, and drop the top 15 stories onto lower 90.  If it comes nowhere near complete collapse then...

Are we supposed to take 100 year climate simulations seriously if they can't do a 30 second collapse simulation?

Millions of people in the nation that put men on the Moon and carry smart phones can't handle simple physics.  LOL

psik


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2016)

Let's do an experiment

Take a hundred story skyscraper and fly a jet airline into it and see if it causes the building to collapse

Then, take an identical hundred story skyscraper and fly a jet airline into it to see if the results are repeatable. 

Wait a minute....we did that


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Dec 17, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> Just thinking
> 
> No skyscraper has ever survived a direct hit from a jetliner


How many times has that happened??  Did you watch the film? What are you guys so afraid of? Finding out that Republicans were involved??


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## psikeyhackr (Dec 17, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> Let's do an experiment
> 
> Take a hundred story skyscraper and fly a jet airline into it and see if it causes the building to collapse
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> ...



It should not be difficult to get accurate data on an experiment.  So it should not be difficult to get accurate data on the amount of steel and concrete on each level of the buildings.

But wait, the NIST can write a 10,000 page report without specifying the amount of concrete in the buildings.  But they did it for the steel, though not the distribution.

Americans are so hilarious with their general incompetence t science.

psik


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## MisterBeale (Dec 17, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> Let's do an experiment
> 
> Take a hundred story skyscraper and fly a jet airline into it and see if it causes the building to collapse
> 
> ...


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## PredFan (Dec 17, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> _Note: I am aware of the fact that there are several other open treads on 9-11 However, they have long been dormant since shortly after they was started earlier this year. In addition, none of them feature the film that I recently discovered. This is different. This is compelling and worth a look!_
> 
> *This is an amazing, and eye opening film that may well change everything that you thought you knew or that you believed about what happened on  9.11.01.*
> 
> ...



"Controlled demolition"

Didn't need to read any more or watch the film. A controlled demolition did not and could not have occurred. That has already been debunked. How old is that film?


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> rightwinger said:
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It has happened twice with identical results

Show me a skyscraper hit by a jet airline that didn't collapse

Looks like you lose


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> rightwinger said:
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?


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2016)

psikeyhackr said:


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Show me where a 100 story skyscraper has ever been taken down with a controlled demo with no detectable explosions


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## westwall (Dec 17, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> rightwinger said:
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There is one common thread among all of you "truthers" not one of you has the slightest clue about science, or engineering.  None.


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## PredFan (Dec 17, 2016)

psikeyhackr said:


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Why do any experiment at all? It's not rocket science; two planes rammed two towers, they fell. Not hard.


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## gipper (Dec 17, 2016)

Clearly 9/11 was a conspiracy.  A bunch of dumb Muslims who had never flown jumbo jets couldn't have done it alone.  And where was our Air Force which had plenty of time to intercept,but didn't.  And of course, burning jet fuel can't melt steel. 

Government always sucks.


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Dec 17, 2016)

rightwinger said:


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Show me a skyscraper that was hit by a jet airliner besides the WTC


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## MisterBeale (Dec 17, 2016)

PredFan said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
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> > _Note: I am aware of the fact that there are several other open treads on 9-11 However, they have long been dormant since shortly after they was started earlier this year. In addition, none of them feature the film that I recently discovered. This is different. This is compelling and worth a look!_
> ...


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 17, 2016)

PredFan said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
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> > _Note: I am aware of the fact that there are several other open treads on 9-11 However, they have long been dormant since shortly after they was started earlier this year. In addition, none of them feature the film that I recently discovered. This is different. This is compelling and worth a look!_
> ...



Controlled demolition"
debunked? that is the funniest lie this stupid fuck troll has EVER told.

this folks is coming from a stupid fuck troll who belives in magic bullets and goes around telling everybody the other biggest lie ever invented by the government in their history,that oswald shot JFK ignoring all the evidence and facts that there were multiple shooters and ignoring that there was never any evidence against oswald as well oh and not only THAT,he runs off with his tail between his legs and puts you on ignore if you prove to him oswald was innocent and there were multiple shooters involved.


He gets angry that you prove him wrong,and he will then put you on ignore since he knows you took him to school. dont believe me? so  much for the credibility of this stupid fuck lying troll who has NEVER watched a video on 9/11 and runs off EVERYTIME you ask him to look at the evidence same as he does on JFK.


so because of that, the proof is in the pudding that if THIS lying troll says it has been debunked that it was a controlled demolition,that it WAS a controllled demolition indeed.thanks to his rants.

he will never read any of your links you post that have been posted on this thread as well as never watch any videos. he also wont admit he slept through junior high school science classes as well of course.did you expect any differently?

oh and notice how the trolllboy ADMITTED he did not watch the video or read any links? he NEVER does.he runs off each time he is losing a debate and then calls you names.


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## MisterBeale (Dec 17, 2016)




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## MisterBeale (Dec 17, 2016)

gipper said:


> Clearly 9/11 was a conspiracy.  A bunch of dumb Muslims who had never flown jumbo jets couldn't have done it alone.  And where was our Air Force which had plenty of time to intercept,but didn't.  And of course, burning jet fuel can't melt steel.
> 
> Government always sucks.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 17, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


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remember beal,you are trying to reason with a kid who belives in magic bullets and incredibly after all this time,STILL thinks oswald was the lone assassin and no conspiracy existed.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 17, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> gipper said:
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> > Clearly 9/11 was a conspiracy.  A bunch of dumb Muslims who had never flown jumbo jets couldn't have done it alone.  And where was our Air Force which had plenty of time to intercept,but didn't.  And of course, burning jet fuel can't melt steel.
> ...



its only truth seekers of course who will watch it,trolls like predfan run off with their tail between their legs each time.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Dec 17, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> _Note: I am aware of the fact that there are several other open treads on 9-11 However, they have long been dormant since shortly after they was started earlier this year. In addition, none of them feature the film that I recently discovered. This is different. This is compelling and worth a look!_
> 
> *This is an amazing, and eye opening film that may well change everything that you thought you knew or that you believed about what happened on  9.11.01.*
> 
> ...


*The Jihad Approves of Your Message*

The way you dismiss the possibility that the secondary explosions were set by Muslims is illogical.  That is a typical rhetorical trick being taught by modern Sophists--pretend to cover all bases but actually give only lip service to ones you are afraid to go into deeply.


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## Freewill (Dec 17, 2016)

psikeyhackr said:


> Screw the conspiracies.
> 
> Why hasn't any engineering school done a physical or virtual model of the north tower collapse in 15 years?
> 
> ...


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## gipper (Dec 17, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


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There have been plenty of fires in skyscrapers and not one pancaked into its footprint...except for you know.


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


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I have a sample of two identical buildings with identical crashes yielding the same results

You have no examples of any skyscraper of any size being brought down by a controlled demo with no discernible explosions

You lose


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 17, 2016)

gipper said:


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why do you bother talking to this paid shill,the shill who says oswald killed JFK?


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## gipper (Dec 17, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> gipper said:
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> > Clearly 9/11 was a conspiracy.  A bunch of dumb Muslims who had never flown jumbo jets couldn't have done it alone.  And where was our Air Force which had plenty of time to intercept,but didn't.  And of course, burning jet fuel can't melt steel.
> ...


Awesome.  One of the best.


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## MisterBeale (Dec 17, 2016)

gipper said:


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This one is one of my favorites too.  It lays out all the reasons behind the Deep State's need to pull off the massive deception, who was involved, names, motives, etc.


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## gipper (Dec 17, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


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Because it is fun.


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Dec 17, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


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Who are you referring to as a "kid" If it's me you're stupid on two counts. 1) I'm not hardly a kid. 2) If you read the OP with comprehension, you would know that I am not taking a definitive position but rather presenting evidence. Calm the fuck down.


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Dec 17, 2016)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
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> > _Note: I am aware of the fact that there are several other open treads on 9-11 However, they have long been dormant since shortly after they was started earlier this year. In addition, none of them feature the film that I recently discovered. This is different. This is compelling and worth a look!_
> ...


Oh Christ I didn't dismiss anything. I said it was illogical. I did not dismiss anything. I went into his with an open mind and I still have an open mind. Why are you attacking me ? WTF!!


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Dec 17, 2016)

rightwinger said:


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How the fuck do I lose when I haven't taken a side? Read much?


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


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Read your OP


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 17, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


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wrong assumption there dude.I wasn't calling YOU kid in the least.  I was referring to predfan.

I forget you haven't been here for years as he.He has been trolling these boards years on end ignoring evidence and facts and always calls people like you trolls when you post videos or links of overwhelming evidence he cant refute or get around that the towers falling were that of a controlled demolition.

He hates hearing the truth because he is a lying paid shill that has penetrated this forum sent by his handlers to try and derail any truth discussion on the topic.same as rightwinger.I advise you not to bother with either of those two stupid fuck  lying paid shills.

sorry for not making it CLEAR that I was referring to predfan as the kid troll.My bad,i guess I should have used his name to clear that up.


also I just automatically figured you would guess I was referring to predfan from my previous post I made on this moron..this one right here.Post# 34   here. 9-11….. Startling New Evidence of a Conspiracy


Looks like you did not read that one.


as you obviously missed in post#34 of mine,that stupid fuck troll PREDFAN, anytime you show him evidence and facts that Oswald was innocent and of killing JFK,that there was never any evidence against him and you prove to him that there were MULTIPLE shooters involved,he runs off with his tail between his legs and when you CHALLENGE him to refute your facts,he will just put you on ignore and start calling you names in frustration because he cant refute them. If that is not acting like a 3 year old kid,then I don't know what is.

him and rightwinger,and freewill you would be wise to not bother with.all three of those stupid fucks believe in magic bullets and that Oswald shot JFK cause they are paid shills on the governments payroll to derail threads like this one so it would be very wise of you not to bother with them.

after all,you have seen for yourself all ready what I am talking about,predfan cant refute any of your facts it was a controlled demoltion,he said himself he wont watch the vidoes you posted or read your links,so it is so obvious he is afraid of the truth and doesn't want to hear it,just wants to keep his head buriend in the same like the stupid sheep ostrich he is.

predfan will eventually put you on ignore when you post facts he cant refute and then runs off and never addresses them and when you send him a pm and tell him you are still waiting for him to address your FACTS and answer them,he will get angry and start calling you names and put you on ignore since he knows you proved his lies WRONG.just watch,you will see for yourself if you hang around here long enough.


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## PredFan (Dec 17, 2016)

rightwinger said:


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Not only no detectable explosions, but the building was rigged to go with an untold number of charges, all without anyone seeing it (not even building security) or punching holes in dry wall, or moving furniture or equipment, or anyone seeing miles of electrical wires strung about.


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2016)

PredFan said:


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Given that they would have no idea where an airplane would strike or even if one EVER would strike, they would have had to wire every floor


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 17, 2016)

two farts in a row from the two stupid fuck lying paid shills I was just got done talking about.


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> two farts in a row from the two stupid fuck lying paid shills I was just got done talking about.


Smells like a stink'n Ram in here

Time to open the windows and let the stink out


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## PredFan (Dec 17, 2016)

rightwinger said:


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And there is a very good reason why they totally strip down buildings before they implode them. Non-load bearing walls, furniture, equipment, etc would disrupt the explosions and risk the building toppling instead of collapsing.

I also have to laugh at the memes people post saying that jet fuel can't melt steel beams. They are right but the extreme prolonged heat weakens them and they carry a whole lot of weight. Those two factors equal collapse. It's not rocket science.


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## MisterBeale (Dec 17, 2016)

PredFan said:


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## MisterBeale (Dec 17, 2016)

rightwinger said:


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## MisterBeale (Dec 17, 2016)

PredFan said:


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## MisterBeale (Dec 17, 2016)




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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


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What makes you believe a beam must melt before it reaches the point of failure?


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## Cellblock2429 (Dec 17, 2016)

Lib brain trust Rosie O'Donnell says "steel don't melt."


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## SAYIT (Dec 17, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> *This is an amazing, and eye opening film that may well change everything that you thought you knew or that you believed about what happened on  9.11.01.*
> http://thefreethoughtproject.com/physics-study-911-controlled-demolition/
> That’s it folks! Have at it .Don’t troll me bro. I’m just the messenger!



I appreciate that you had the integrity to post a source  - Debunking 911 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition Homepage - that totally debunks your Europhysics News article which promotes the same, old, 9/11 CT replete with the same old, thoroughly discredited CTBS the "Truthers" have been spewing for over a decade. I found that article far more compelling.
To wit:

1) There is nothing "Startling" or "New" as your thread title claims, unless you first heard about the 9/11/2001 attack yesterday.

2) Europhysics News is not connected to the peer-reviewed Europhysics Journal (which is an actual scientific journal) but rather just a magazine that did not conclude anything but rather published the "work" of established (and discredited) "Truthers." The mysterious reclassification of an online news rag to credible scientific journal is typical of how some must play fast and loose with the truth in a lame attempt to fool the next generation of gullible foil-hatters.

3) Europhysics News did include a disclaimer in which they admitted to be publishing the authors' unscientific "speculation" and added that "the content of the article is the responsibility of the authors." Oh. In other words, they were simply spurring Internet traffic to their site.

4) When contacted for comment Europhysics News responded by confirming that their magazine is not peer-reviewed and that the article contains ‘speculative’ claims.

5) It is certainly your right to post the same old 9/11 CTBS that has been destroyed both here and everywhere else but to claim it is new and improved is, once again, just playing fast and loose with the truth.

6) The authors are all members of, or affiliated with 9/11 ‘truther’ movements and the debunker goes on to note:

"This is essentially the equivalent of asking a group of creationists, who also happen to be scientists, whether there is any evidence for intelligent design. A qualification a good scientist does not make. The ‘evidence’ these authors presented is the usual collection of debunked tropes which didn’t take long to be debunked yet again (again again).

There is nothing new here whatsoever. Europhysics News have published a pseudoscientific article of previously debunked 9/11 tropes to coincide with the 15th anniversary of the atrocity in a cynical attempt to maximise their publication’s exposure. This has then been miss-sold as a scientific journal by media and commentators alike."

.


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## Toro (Dec 17, 2016)

I thought this crazy shit went away.


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## SAYIT (Dec 17, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> What makes you believe a beam must melt before it reaches the point of failure?



It doesn't and MrBeale is well aware of that fact but it doesn't fit the "Truther" narrative and they care nothing for the truth. Instead they promote half-truths, speculation and outright fabrications because the truth just doesn't "get 'er done."

FTR ... the NIST report blames heat-expanded and weakened beams and joints - not melted steel (for which there is no evidence) - for the collapse.


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## Freewill (Dec 17, 2016)

People, why do you make crap up?  The beams didn't melt nor did they have to to fail.  I already posted on article about a bridge that almost collapsed due to fire, it sagged but didn't fall.  Now here is another story of fire from gasoline, which has much less energy than jet fuel, caused a bridge to collapse.


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## PredFan (Dec 17, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
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Because cartoons are facts!


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## PredFan (Dec 17, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> rightwinger said:
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Because memes are facts. Everyone knows that.


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## PredFan (Dec 17, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> PredFan said:
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> > rightwinger said:
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It's not rocket science but I guess it's too hard for you still.


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## PredFan (Dec 17, 2016)

Toro said:


> I thought this crazy shit went away.



Like the JFK and Moon Landings, I'll be it never goes away.


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## GLASNOST (Dec 17, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> *two farts in a row* from the two stupid fuck lying paid shills I was just got done talking about.


*Two farts?* If a paper basket on fire in the corner can bring down a whole building ..... then I'm guessing that 2 farts can probably destroy all of Manhatten and parts of New Jersey.


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## gipper (Dec 18, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
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There have been many skyscraper fires and none collapsed except for the WTC.

Secondly, if you really think a fire on a few floors of a huge building like the WTC could result in their pancaking into their footprint in less than *two hours*, you are f-ing nuts.  Maybe if they burned for a few days or weeks...maybe.

Remember Payne Stewart?...when air traffic control got no response from his plane, within minutes the Air Force had an F-16 making a visual.  The Air Force does intercepts all the time...well except for 9/11, the Air Force did exactly NOTHING. 

Our big huge absurdly expensive military...did nothing on the day we were attacked...and yet statists like you want more government.  Have you gone mad?


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## rightwinger (Dec 18, 2016)

gipper said:


> rightwinger said:
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> > MisterBeale said:
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Show a fire the equivalent of WTC with a huge hole knocked in the building and an accelerant like jet fuel


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## gipper (Dec 18, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> gipper said:
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> > rightwinger said:
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Why ask such a dumb question?  

Can I do it too?  Show me another fire equivalent to the WTC, where the building pancaked into it's footprint within 100 minutes.

You of all people, a radical leftist who HATES W with a unequaled passion...believes W's 9/11 story.  You are truly a statist through and through.

I love you man and so does Jesus...but let's hope the ignorant do not inherit the earth.


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## rightwinger (Dec 18, 2016)

gipper said:


> rightwinger said:
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Odd how you obsess over a building pan caking as it collapses

Why would it fall like a tree?


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## gipper (Dec 18, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> gipper said:
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I have lost interest now...go away.


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## rightwinger (Dec 18, 2016)

gipper said:


> rightwinger said:
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Run away if you must......but what forces would have caused the WTC to fall like a tree?


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## MisterBeale (Dec 18, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> MisterBeale said:
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## MisterBeale (Dec 18, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> gipper said:
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## MisterBeale (Dec 18, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> gipper said:
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## rightwinger (Dec 18, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> rightwinger said:
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This tower?


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## GLASNOST (Dec 18, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> Why would it fall like a tree?


Why would it fall like a tree, or how could it fall like a tree? A building is make up of a skeletal frame and the rest is window dressing. How many skeletal  "corners" does a build have? Four? Four with cross structures? If you apply a force to the skeletal structure of a chair or table (I am speaking about its legs, of course) breaking it ..... on how many legs will it remain standing before it "falls"? Will it fall "over" or will it fall "straight down"? That would depend upon how much (and at what side) the damage is. Yes? And then why is it that pyrotechnic demolishing of buildings require explosive charges placed all round the building and set off at the same moment .... in order for the building to fall "straight down"? Is it because they don't want it to "fall over" like a tree?


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## rightwinger (Dec 18, 2016)

GLASNOST said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Why would it fall like a tree?
> ...


Nice try but WTC was not built that way

It did not have a box like frame like an Erector Set
It had an inner core with floors added like a stack of records
That is why it pancaked as those stacks collapsed on the floor below


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Dec 18, 2016)

SAYIT said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > *This is an amazing, and eye opening film that may well change everything that you thought you knew or that you believed about what happened on  9.11.01.*
> ...


Thank you for that information and insight. I said from the start that was  not fully convinced. I'm willing to learn.


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## rightwinger (Dec 18, 2016)

_Your source

Regardless, it is clear that the core structures were designed to support several times the weight of each tower by themselves_


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## gipper (Dec 18, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> rightwinger said:
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Thank you but it wasn't really necessary.

Just about everything a rabid statist like Leftnutter posts, is incorrect.  Sadly, he is so brainwashed he doesn't realize his own total and complete ignorance.  

Like it is said...ignorance is bliss.


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## GLASNOST (Dec 18, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> Nice try but WTC was not built that way


I'm not trying to do anything but use sense.



rightwinger said:


> It did not have a box like frame like an Erector Set
> It had an inner core with floors added like a stack of records


In that case it would require a complete cross-section to be destroyed before anything (but a side chunk) to fall off of it. 


rightwinger said:


> That is why it pancaked as those stacks collapsed on the floor below


So, in your imagination, you have considered a stack of records, right? And in your imagination you have thought what would happen if you slammed something into its' *SIDE* ..... and that would cause the whole stack to fall straight down.

Sorry, but if it had a core then it would be more like a tree than anything else and would WITHOUT DOUBT fall over like a tree. You said "core", it's your own word. If the core were cut through by a force from its' side (as is the case) then the section above the  slice would topple over to one side. If the whole structure were to be weakened *from* this "core" then it might fall straight down *around* the "core" but leave the core itself standing. Thanks for playing, but you lose in either case.


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## PredFan (Dec 18, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
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Well Spider-Man, let me help you. Damage from the other buildings, not to mention fire. We know that the building collapsed, we know that it wasn't a controlled demolition, so the most likely cause was excessive damage. There see? Easy.


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## PredFan (Dec 18, 2016)

Message to Truthers and anyone who sympathizes.

Look, you want to say that powerful sources brought down the towers for their own agenda, fine.  Pick your sinister entity; Bush, the military industrial complex, the Illuminati, whatever. Pick your motive, financial ruination of the US, war for profit, whatever. But why pick an impossible or at least highly unlikely route to get there?

Just say (insert your evil entity here) wanted to get the US into a war against Islamic Terror groups because (insert the nefarious motive here), so they financed, trained and organized OBL and a group of terrorists to hijack some planes and fly them into the towers? 

That scenario would be MUCH harder to debunk than the controlled demolition scenario, or the fake airplane scenario, or the missile scenario.


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Dec 18, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
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You read it. I stated that  I wasn't  sure.. I'm  not being dogmatic like those of  you who insist you're right


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## rightwinger (Dec 18, 2016)

GLASNOST said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Nice try but WTC was not built that way
> ...


The plane penetrated to the core


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## Pete7469 (Dec 18, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> You read it. I stated that  I wasn't  sure.. I'm  not being dogmatic like those of  you who insist you're right



Everyone knows you're only dogmatic about marxism and sucking cock.

Becoming a 9/11 truthtard won't make you any more of an idiot.

You've maxed that out already.


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## GLASNOST (Dec 18, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
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You don't know the difference between "to" and "through"?


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## rightwinger (Dec 18, 2016)

GLASNOST said:


> rightwinger said:
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Core was compromised.....Building collapsed

Science


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 18, 2016)

PredFan said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > I thought this crazy shit went away.
> ...



I rest my case. from my previous posts of a stupid fuck troll who believes in magic bullets,ignores how there was never any evidence oswald was involved and ignores the tones of facts that prove there were multiple shooters.

oh and as i said before,THIS folks is coming from a kid who when you discuss the JFK assassination with him and prove to him oswald was innocent and there were multiple shooters,when he wont address your posts and you send a PM to him telling him you are waiting for him to address your facts,he THEN gets angry and calls you names in your pm and then puts you on ignore.comedy gold.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 18, 2016)

GLASNOST said:


> rightwinger said:
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remember he believes in magic bullets as well so what do you expect?


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 18, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> fncceo said:
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> ...



He knows he cant counter anything in your OP so that is his reply.hee hee.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 18, 2016)

westwall said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
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Truthers unlike Bush dupes,did  not sleep through junior high school science classes nor ignore witness testimonys "many of them being firefiigheters experienced in the sounds of explosives."  or what demolition experts,and archeitects and engineers,or expert pilots have said,NOR do they keep their heads up their assess ignoring pesky facts that same as the JFK assassination,witneses who came forward and gave versions different than the governments would up dying in very mysterious deaths.


one truther who was a witness that was there in the towers matter of fact who  said she heard explosives,was even on alex jones show one time and tole the listeners she has evidence of explosives she was going to bring forth and if she died anytime soon,dont believe a word of the governments explanation,that she would never take her own life.well a few days later,she ended up dying with the officical version of the governments being that she committed suicide found on a chair and hanging herself.

you REALLY need to stop being afraid of the truth and look at the OP and stop living in denial on this issue. you are doing the predfan and rightwinger thing.lol


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## Toro (Dec 18, 2016)

9/11 inside nutjob is like the Jeff fisher of conspiracy theories. 


lol


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 18, 2016)

gipper said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...



Okay I hear ya. Because of your ANSWER you gave,you get a free pass from me saying to reply to him is being an idiot cause you are feeding the troll like his boss wants you to which is what i would USUALLY say to someone who replys to him since he always acts like a five year old in all his posts.

HOWEVER i totally here you. It IS fun i got to admit messing with him.I love watching him go and cry to his mommy in defeat all the time watching how he cant admit i took him to schooltwo years ago that  the Rams were coming back to  LA when he INSISTED two years ago they were never coming back and STILL says they are in st louis this year in defeat.

He always whines to his mommy in defeat all the time now knowing he was proven wrong by me so yeah,i hear what you say,it IS fun watching him backpeddle all the time when he knows he cant counter facts.


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## GLASNOST (Dec 18, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> Core was compromised.....Building collapsed
> Science


Government is compromised ... Life turned to shit
Politics


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## The Sage of Main Street (Dec 18, 2016)

PredFan said:


> Message to Truthers and anyone who sympathizes.
> 
> Look, you want to say that powerful sources brought down the towers for their own agenda, fine.  Pick your sinister entity; Bush, the military industrial complex, the Illuminati, whatever. Pick your motive, financial ruination of the US, war for profit, whatever. But why pick an impossible or at least highly unlikely route to get there?
> 
> ...


*If the Ivory Tower Had Collapsed Instead, the Twin Towers Would Still Be Standing*

Stuck in status worship, Americans are afraid to admit that those who get into positions of power from which they could have prevented 9/11 are superficial no-talent narrow-minded conformists.  We are led to believe that success goes to those who are best at the job, so there is a solidly built mental block blaming this all on incompetence. 9/11 should have been a wakeup call to change the way Americans get ahead.  But it's only been a snooze alarm.


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## TNHarley (Dec 18, 2016)

I'm not convinced at all it was our govt. However, I TOTALLY support an independent investigation. I don't trust our govt and I damn sure don't trust bush


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Dec 18, 2016)

SAYIT said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > *This is an amazing, and eye opening film that may well change everything that you thought you knew or that you believed about what happened on  9.11.01.*
> ...



To be honest,  I can’t refute or debunk any of this.  But it should be noted that people’s beliefs and perceptions  alone- that go against the grain of the  conventional wisdom- should not be used to discredit them by the bien pensant crowd.

I will add that it’s not useful or fair to compare  9-11 Truthers to creationists. It would be equally inappropriate to compare them to climate change deniers. The former has a religious bias and the latter is usually in the pocket of big oil. Both use pseudo junk science to support their positions Both are in a tiny minority among scientists. What is the bias of truthers other than a pursuit of the truth?

There are things that do not make sense. While it has been established that Europhysics News is in fact not a peer reviewed publication and relies on speculation to a degree, the magazine is published by the prestigious European Physical Society

While professor Jones’ analysis can be called into question, his work is being used by Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth which, as I pointed out earlier, appears to be legitimate and credible.

In addition,  this paper from the December 2001 issue of _JOM_, — the member journal of The Minerals, Metals & Materials Society _, — _is in full agreement with the Jones group on this point. ( That the fire alone was insufficient to melt of weaken the structure to the point of failure)  They too appear to be legitimate and highly credible.

Yet questions persist. To summaries:

*On the official version’s side……..*

Yes there is room for criticism of Steven Jones and his study was not peer reviewed.

It seems farfetched that  the buildings could have been rigged with explosive without the perpetrators being seen or the explosives being detected.

How could an attack from the ground be coordinated with the hijackings, especially if it was an entity apart from Al Qaeda ?

*On the truther’s side*……

Steven Jones assertion that the fire could not have been hot enough to melt or cause failure of the steel was backed up by the unimpeachable *Minerals, Metals & Materials Society.*

Europhysics News is published by the *prestigious European Physical Society*

Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth consists of 2,300 professionals and there is no indication that this is a fringe group of nutters and conspiracy buffs.

Then there is this…. A work of art that challenges the official account of 9/11 has been accepted into the permanent collection of the 9/11 Museum in New York City. And surprisingly, the piece was created by an artist who is best known for his illustrations in the _mainstream_ media. http://www1.ae911truth.org/en/home.html

Destruction of evidence was reported and documented

No one  can explain away the eye witness reports of explosions and molten steel

Building 7 was not hit by aircraft yet it was supposedly so seriously damaged and in the precise manner necessary to cause a symmetrical implosion

Still not convinced either way but I support the pursuit of the truth and still leaning towards something other than the official explanation


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## MisterBeale (Dec 18, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


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## SAYIT (Dec 18, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> ...What is the bias of truthers other than a pursuit of the truth?



That is an interesting question and I have noticed a myriad of often conflicting agendas within the "Truther" Movement but what makes you think they are in "pursuit of the truth?" Because they say so?

"I thought the term ‘Truth Movement’ meant that there’d be some search for truth. I was wrong." - Charlie Veitch, former 9/11 CT royalty      The 9/11 conspiracy theorist who changed his mind



TheProgressivePatriot said:


> In addition,  this paper from the December 2001 issue of _JOM_, — the member journal of The Minerals, Metals & Materials Society _, — _is in full agreement with the Jones group on this point. ( That the fire alone was insufficient to melt of weaken the structure to the point of failure)  They too appear to be legitimate and highly credible...Steven Jones assertion that the fire could not have been hot enough to melt or cause failure of the steel was backed up by the unimpeachable *Minerals, Metals & Materials Society...*



My prob with "Truthers" is their penchant for cherry-picking and otherwise playing fast and loose with the truth. For instance, there was no evidence of "molten steel" and according to that article:

"*However, the building was not able to withstand the intense heat of the jet fuel fire. While it was impossible for the fuel-rich, diffuse-flame fire to burn at a temperature high enough to melt the steel, its quick ignition and intense heat caused the steel to lose at least half its strength and to deform, causing buckling or crippling. This weakening and deformation caused a few floors to fall, while the weight of the stories above them crushed the floors below, initiating a domino collapse*."

In other words, your source did not cast doubt or aspersions on the official study but actually confirms it.



TheProgressivePatriot said:


> *On the official version’s side……..*
> 
> Yes there is room for criticism of Steven Jones and his study was not peer reviewed.
> 
> ...



Before you dive down that rabbit hole you should know that some never return to reality ... MrBeale and LARam (formerly 9/11InsideJob) are two prime examples.

You admit that the rigging of CD charges "seems farfetched" (and it is) but beyond that please consider that those charges would have had to survive the impact of the passengers jets followed by hours of very hot and chaotic fires. The idea isn't just "farfetched," it's absurd and when the "coordination" of the hijackings is thrown in, it's absolutely ridiculous.

And why has Prof Jones failed to get peer-review after more than a decade of espousing the same old discredited CTBS?

Finally, there is nothing "new" or "startling" about Jones's claims so why, if you are not just another CT loon in search of some attention, would you title your thread as such?


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Dec 19, 2016)

SAYIT said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > ...What is the bias of truthers other than a pursuit of the truth?
> ...


You might have noticed that for the most part, I'm not disagreeing with you. The difference between us is that I'm trying to have a balanced view of it and see all sides, while you are heavily invested in debunking the truthers totally. Why is that. You and the others who want so badly to prove the official version seem to be running scared of any other possibility. White you accuse the truthers of cherry picking, it seems as though that is exactly what you're doing.


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## SAYIT (Dec 19, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...



Except I'm not trying to prove the official version but after 15 years of reading "Truther" versions of 9/11 - such as the "no planes" or "controlled demo" theories that aren't just "farfetched," they're absolutely ridiculous (as established above) - I (and many others) have found the NIST report to be, while not perfect, by far the most rational and scientifically lucid explanation of the events of that day.

There are , in fact, so many (often mutually exclusive) CTs vying for acceptance that they have had the effect of not just cancelling each other out but actually discrediting the "Truther" Movement, its major players and its vastly diminished minions.

I'm sorry that you found your way to the game in the 9th inning of a blowout but that which you found to be "Starling New Evidence of a Conspiracy" is the same old hash that the authors (and their sycophants) have been slinging for over 15 years. The Sept (15 yr anniversary) re-release of that old hash seems to me a cynical attempt by the authors (and the online mag) to catch the attention (and money) of the angry, disenfranchised, disillusioned, gullible or otherwise downright dissatisfied.

FTR - While the NIST report was gov't commissioned, it was based on the findings of a number of independent civilian agencies and professional orgs by people whose reputations are of critical importance to their careers and who could have benefited handsomely from finding evidence of a gov't conspiracy. I mean, they could have written FIRST HAND factual accounts, enjoyed the fame, glory, book tours, speaking engagements and wealth that the authors of the thoroughly discredited CTs have tried to garner. Additionally, the insurers could have saved TENS of BILLIONS had their investigations turned up anything sordid.

That you choose to "have a balanced view of it and see all sides" at this late date, based on 10-15 yr old speculation, is of course your right. Have a good time and feel free to come to your own conclusions!

I will close with my last words in this exchange (as the subject bores the piss outta me) or rather with the words of another former "Truther," the co-founder of 9/11 Truth UAlbany, who didn't just slither away but had the integrity to spell out his reasons for leaving the movement 8 YEARS AGO (Dec 31, 2008):

Confessions of an Ex-Truther: Letter of Resignation (Scroll Down for Newer Posts)
The truthers will just tell you that all the experts are "in on it." Yeah, sure. Every engineer in the world is complicit in the government's murder of 3,000 people. And so are the firemen, who apparently ordered Larry Silverstein to "pull" Building 7. The truthers' misrepresentation of Silverstein's quote is one of the most popular "facts" to spit out, but in doing so, you are effectively in agreement that firefighters were not only involved in the controlled demolition of WTC7, but they are also aiding and abetting in the government's cover-up. Yeah, every firefighter who was out there on 9/11 is going to be complicit in the MURDER OF 343 OF THEIR FALLEN BROTHERS! To quote Loose Change co-creator Jason Bermas, "the firefighters are paid off."

This is absolute horseshit, which brings me to why I've formally distanced myself from this sorry excuse for a movement. Loose Change, 9/11 Mysteries, Alex Jones, and all the other kooks out there are fucking lying about, distorting, and misrepresenting the facts to further their personal agendas. And what is their agenda, you ask? Money, in the words of Shaggy 2 Dope, "mutha fuckin bitch ass money." Not only are they desecrating 3,000 graves, but they are profiting off of it. That, my friends, makes me sick to my fuckin stomach.

Some may think that this is just a big personal attack, and that I'm not presenting enough facts. I honestly don't give a fuck because the information is out there. I love how all the truthers, myself included for a time, brag about how they've done all the "research." Well my friends, research doesn't involve looking exclusively at other 9/11 conspiracy sites! Research involves looking at things from both sides of the spectrum, and making your own decisions. Check out the links I've listed above, or google "Screw 9/11 Mysteries" and "Screw Loose Change."


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Dec 19, 2016)

*ACE Elevator Company*
9/11 Questions and Research

How could explosives be planted in the WTC?
Ace is the trump card to win a new 9/11 investigation
By Rick Shaddock, ANETA Writing Team
 with thanks to Dr. Crockett Grabbe (PhD, Physics, CalTech)

http://www.aneta.org/911experiments_com/AceElevator/


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## rightwinger (Dec 19, 2016)

Exclusive photos the 9-11 commission does not want you to see







.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Dec 19, 2016)

TNHarley said:


> I'm not convinced at all it was our govt. However, I TOTALLY support an independent investigation. I don't trust our govt and I damn sure don't trust bush


*Another Reason This Theory Was Planted by the Establishment*

I trust Dumbo Dubya and the incompetents who get ahead in a crashing society to not be able to do their jobs.  This is the worst Truthie Treason:  to continue with the brainwashing that those on top are smarter than us, so _they must have known!_


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## GLASNOST (Dec 19, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> Exclusive photos the 9-11 commission does not want you to see


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## The Sage of Main Street (Dec 19, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...


*Flat Earth Comes to Ground Zero*

You're not being logical when you claim that the objective position is halfway between.  This is a case where one side is completely wrong and should be rejected from all consideration. This planted wild goose chase lets the shallow conformists in "Intelligence" get away with their lack of deep knowledge, such as that on February 21, 1973, the Israelis shot down an off-course Libyan airliner because they had found out that the terrorists planned on hijacking one and using it as a bomb to kill thousands by crashing it into a large building.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 19, 2016)

TNHarley said:


> I'm not convinced at all it was our govt. However, I TOTALLY support an independent investigation. I don't trust our govt and I damn sure don't trust bush



well then you obviously have never seen either of these two videos nor read this book i see.

..It was a joint CIA/mossad operation.These two videos and this book  have never been debunked.the government has failed miserably to debunk them.If you want to learn the truth all you got to do is  take the time out of your schedule-three hours worth both times and watch both videos.




 The author of this book has begged congress to debate him out in the open on CNN.they wont,they are cowardly and corrupt and know it is the truth so they wont debate him out in the open.

Debunking 9/11 Debunking


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 19, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not convinced at all it was our govt. However, I TOTALLY support an independent investigation. I don't trust our govt and I damn sure don't trust bush
> ...




the fact our government paid shill and resident troll rightwinger posted a smiley  is all the proof in the world it is indeed the truth,thats all he does when he cant counter facts that prove him wrong is post smileys in defeat.


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## rightwinger (Dec 19, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > TNHarley said:
> ...



I've got tickets to the Rams/49er game in St Louis next weekend

Want to meet me?


----------



## Toro (Dec 19, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > LA RAM FAN said:
> ...



The St Louis Rams are having an awful season. St Louis fired their coach, Jeff Fisher.

I wonder who St Louis will hire for their coach next year?


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Dec 19, 2016)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...


I didn't say that the truth was half way between. It either was or was not a conspiracy. It either did or did not  involve others besides the hijackers. I am saying that the evidence for the official version being false is mixed. I demonstrated how that's true.


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## rightwinger (Dec 19, 2016)

Toro said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > LA RAM FAN said:
> ...


They really didn't fire Jeff Fisher

He wears a disguise and still coaches from the sidelines


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Dec 19, 2016)

Does this guy sound like a nut , or incompetent??


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Dec 20, 2016)

Todays installment. This is either the death blow to the truthers, or proff that the AIA is part of the cover up? Architects Shy From Trutherism   What do you think?


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Dec 20, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Todays installment. This is either the death blow to the truthers, or proff that the AIA is part of the cover up? Architects Shy From Trutherism   What do you think?



Then the question becomes....what does this mean? Notice that AIA does not condemn Gage as a kook or question the science, at least not that I know of. They simply do not want to be affiliated or associated with him or his organization.         

 They may in fact think that he is crazy, or just wrong. However, it's just as likely that - for political reasons- do not want to  be embroiled in the controversy . I could see how they, as a professional organization, could find  themselves on the bad side of people and organizations  who they need-including the government.


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## Pete7469 (Dec 20, 2016)




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## psikeyhackr (Dec 20, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> psikeyhackr said:
> 
> 
> > t should not be difficult to get accurate data on an experiment.  So it should not be difficult to get accurate data on the amount of steel and concrete on each level of the buildings.
> ...



I can't, and you can't either.  You can just ignore all of the witnesses that reported explosions and pretend that the squibs were caused by air pressure.

And of course pretend it is irrelevant that engineering schools don't even try to come up with experiments to account for the north tower collapse and why the top of the south tower did not fall down the side.

psik


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## psikeyhackr (Dec 20, 2016)

PredFan said:


> psikeyhackr said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Believing is easy for the intellectually deprived.

It is curious how the NIST cannot specify the total amount of concrete in the towers in 10,000 pages.  But then they specified the amount of steel three times.  Didn't the designers have to know how much concrete there would be to figure out how much steel that needed?  Didn't the steel hold up the concrete and everything else?

psik


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## Pete7469 (Dec 20, 2016)

psikeyhackr said:


> I can't, and you can't either.  You can just ignore all of the witnesses that reported explosions and pretend that the squibs were caused by air pressure.
> 
> And of course pretend it is irrelevant that engineering schools don't even try to come up with experiments to account for the north tower collapse and why the top of the south tower did not fall down the side.
> 
> psik



Where do these idiots come from?

At least that clown put a moron like Leonard Nimoy on his avatar so we know he's a moron, but who the fuck is the imbecile on regressive parasite's avatar?

Poor stupid bastard.


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## rightwinger (Dec 21, 2016)

psikeyhackr said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > psikeyhackr said:
> ...



Every camera in NYC was trained on the WTC. There is no evidence of a floor by floor string of explosions that brought down the towers.


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## SAYIT (Dec 21, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> psikeyhackr said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Not that anyone saw anyone rig those buildings for demo - a monumental task - nor has anyone admitted to having been involved, and seismic evidence shows no CD explosions. Furthermore, the Towers were hit by freakin' passenger jets loaded with jet fuel which ignited and caused the chaotic fires that burned for HOURS. How the hell could demo rigging survive that and even if some of it - not that there is any evidence there ever was any - managed to survive, enough would have had to have been destroyed to make a controlled demo impossible.


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## rightwinger (Dec 21, 2016)

SAYIT said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > psikeyhackr said:
> ...



Why would you rig a building to explode on the remote chance that someone may someday fly jet airliners into it?

What were they going to do if nobody ever attacked the WTC?


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## Pete7469 (Dec 21, 2016)

SAYIT said:


> Not that anyone saw anyone rig those buildings for demo - a monumental task - nor has anyone admitted to having been involved, and seismic evidence shows no CD explosions. Furthermore, the Towers were hit by freakin' passenger jets loaded with jet fuel which ignited and caused the chaotic fires that burned for HOURS. How the hell could demo rigging survive that and even if some of it - not that there is any evidence there ever was any - managed to survive, enough would have had to have been destroyed to make a controlled demo impossible.



The idea that 9/11 was staged is so fucking ridiculous....

They say "jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough", as if that was the only thing burning.

It take a complete blithering idiot like regressiveparasite to keep that asinine idea alive.


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## SAYIT (Dec 21, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > Not that anyone saw anyone rig those buildings for demo (nor has anyone admitted to having been involved) and seismic evidence shows no CD explosions. Furthermore, the Towers were hit by freakin' passenger jets loaded with jet fuel which ignited and caused the chaotic fires that burned for HOURS. How the hell could demo rigging survive that and even if some of it - not that there is any evidence there ever was any - managed to survive, enough would have had to have been destroyed to make a controlled demo impossible.
> ...



Which, of course, precludes the possibility that a small army of invisible silent ninja riggers (with tons of invisible silent explosives that left no trace) slipped into all 3 buildings after the jets hit and did their dastardly deed.

In the end - and it is OVER - unless one believes (without a shred of evidence, of course) that all who were involved in planning, prepping, rigging, responding, reporting, covering-up, adjudicating and investigating were in on it (and none have admitted so in 15 years), the only conclusion available to a rational adult is: flawed and incomplete as the NIST findings may be, they still represent (by far) the best explanation of the day's events.

Interestingly, the OP continues to post decade (or more) old speculative and/or long debunked material as "Startling New Evidence of a Conspiracy." It's neither startling or new, nor is it evidence. It's the same, old, CTBS in a new box.

Either he just discovered it or he's being less-than-honest. In his defense, the authors of that silliness continue to re-package and re-brand their fairy tales, ostensibly in a cynical attempt to snag some new gullibles (and perhaps some of their cash).

At the core of what is left of the "Truther" story is the LIE that molten steel was seen at ground zero. Anyone who seriously digs into that claim finds no hard evidence for it and once removed from the picture, the rest of their CT collapses faster than any building.


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## PredFan (Dec 21, 2016)

psikeyhackr said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > psikeyhackr said:
> ...



Ironic that you call me intellectually deprived because I believe what happened, but you believe nonsense to the point where you are completely unable to think.

It isn't curious at all, there could be many reasons that they didn't know, and all of them innocent. You prefer to make something out of nothing because you want to believe an unfounded and impossible conspiracy theory.


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## PredFan (Dec 21, 2016)

SAYIT said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...



The fact that the official explanation doesn't have all the answers convinces me that it's the truth. That is exactly what you would expect from and investigation into an incident after the fact. There are some questions that we will never know the answer to.

If it had all of the answers, then I would be suspicious.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 21, 2016)

Pete7469 said:


> psikeyhackr said:
> 
> 
> > I can't, and you can't either.  You can just ignore all of the witnesses that reported explosions and pretend that the squibs were caused by air pressure.
> ...


you mean idiots like you who ignore what happened to bld 7?


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 21, 2016)

The idea that 9/11 was staged is so fucking ridiculous....

Is that WHY chickenshit cowards like you ALWAYS do this- when confronted by those pesky little facts in those two videos I  posted in post#114 here that you Bush dupes refuse to watch

9-11….. Startling New Evidence of a Conspiracy
  that it was a joint CIA/mossad operation that you wont take your head out of your ass to watch cause the truth scares you,nor will you read that book in the link i gave because of the same reason?







the Bush dupes of course dont want to look at bld 7 the crux of the 9/1 coverup commission


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## westwall (Dec 21, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> The idea that 9/11 was staged is so fucking ridiculous....
> 
> Is that WHY chickenshit cowards like you ALWAYS do this- when confronted by those pesky little facts in those two videos I  posted in post#114 here that you Bush dupes refuse to watch
> 
> ...








Those aren't "facts" you are presenting the video dude.  Those are called OPINIONS.  HUUUUUGE difference.  I suggest you learn that.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 21, 2016)

westwall said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > The idea that 9/11 was staged is so fucking ridiculous....
> ...




what you watched maybe two minutes worth on both  and then got scared like you always do and did this- as you always do and decided they are opinions.comedy gold from you as always.


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## westwall (Dec 21, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > LA RAM FAN said:
> ...









How can I get scared by a fucking video.  Get real silly boy, I have been shot at and survived a plane crash.  This shit don't bug me in the least.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 21, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> The idea that 9/11 was staged is so fucking ridiculous....
> 
> Is that WHY chickenshit cowards like you ALWAYS do this- when confronted by those pesky little facts in those two videos I  posted in post#114 here that you Bush dupes refuse to watch
> 
> ...



oh and I notice you missed post# here of mine as well.

post#98 of mine as well which of course you will say are OPINIONS and not facts as well.


9-11….. Startling New Evidence of a Conspiracy


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 21, 2016)

westwall said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


sure they dont scare you,thats why you turn tail and run refusing  to look at them like all Bush dupes and run off with your tail between your legs all the time.



you would be laughed out of debating hall in seconds if you debated the same way there you do here when confronted with videos just giving your rebuttal that they are opinions and not even trying to counter the evidence presented.


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## westwall (Dec 21, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > LA RAM FAN said:
> ...








You clowns are fond of calling anyone who disagrees with you "dupes" but the only dupes are you morons who have no scientific knowledge at all.  It is easy to dupe you because you have not the slightest bit of engineering sense.  By 10 year old daughter has a better grasp of science and engineering than you do.


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## yiostheoy (Dec 21, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> _Note: I am aware of the fact that there are several other open treads on 9-11 However, they have long been dormant since shortly after they was started earlier this year. In addition, none of them feature the film that I recently discovered. This is different. This is compelling and worth a look!_
> 
> *This is an amazing, and eye opening film that may well change everything that you thought you knew or that you believed about what happened on  9.11.01.*
> 
> ...


Reminds me of Oliver Stone's 1991 movie about JFK.

PURE FICTION !!!


----------



## yiostheoy (Dec 21, 2016)

westwall said:


> You clowns are fond of calling anyone who disagrees with you "dupes" but the only dupes are you morons who have no scientific knowledge at all.  It is easy to dupe you because you have not the slightest bit of engineering sense.  By 10 year old daughter has a better grasp of science and engineering than you do.


Jeeze westwall relax and take a stress pill.


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Dec 21, 2016)

yiostheoy said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > _Note: I am aware of the fact that there are several other open treads on 9-11 However, they have long been dormant since shortly after they was started earlier this year. In addition, none of them feature the film that I recently discovered. This is different. This is compelling and worth a look!_
> ...



Yup it does , doesn't? Afraid of the truth?   You might have noticed that I'm not, where ever it leads. That's why I've taken a balanced approach to this rather than being arrogant and dogmatic. You might want to try it. Anyone who says with certainty that they know the truth is like an evangelical wing nut. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dale Smith (Dec 22, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> _Note: I am aware of the fact that there are several other open treads on 9-11 However, they have long been dormant since shortly after they was started earlier this year. In addition, none of them feature the film that I recently discovered. This is different. This is compelling and worth a look!_
> 
> *This is an amazing, and eye opening film that may well change everything that you thought you knew or that you believed about what happened on  9.11.01.*
> 
> ...




9/11 was an inside job......a false flag event.......15 years later, do people still believe that 19 box-cutter welding Saudis (guided by a CIA asset residing in a cave in Afghanistan) took down the CIA, NSA, NORAD and the Pentagon and buttfucked them on the world stage with combined budgets of over two TRILLION dollars a year  but so quickly got their shit together that nothing else happened while leaving the southern border totally unprotected? How fucking stupid does one have to be to not smell this bullshit???.... Two planes collapsed three buildings that fell inside their own footprints and attacked the Pentagon by doing an aeronautical maneuver that pilots for 9/11 truth said was impossible because a plane is really nothing but a bus with wings??? It's akin to a Greyhound bus trying to compete in the Indy 500. It isn't fucking impossible and it embarrasses me that people still buy the bullshit shoveled by this corporate entity that lamely attempts to disguise itself as a legitimate governmental body.

I dare anyone that wants to debate this topic to take their shots at me. I have done the research and I know all the arguments because I was a denier for 11 years and took on the "truthers" but the scales fell from my eyes so there is nothing you can throw at me that I haven't used myself. This was a bullshit false flag that accomplished many things including money laundering and the passage of ten year oil and gas securities that were bought up when the Ruble collapsed and could not have passed the sniff test of the S.E.C that was shut down due to the events of that day. The Patriot Act was written in advance of this event? What are the odds? The very "freedoms" the CIA funded al qaeda was jealous of was taken away in small increments including our rights to privacy was taken away.  Wake up and grow the fuck up, deniers...you are not in Kansas anymore.


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## SAYIT (Dec 22, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> 9/11 was an inside job......a false flag event.......15 years later, do people still believe that 19 box-cutter welding Saudis (guided by a CIA asset residing in a cave in Afghanistan) took down the CIA, NSA, NORAD and the Pentagon and buttfucked them on the world stage...



LOOK! Good old Dale "I believe it's about time to cut my losses and move on from here" Smith is back and spewing the same old silly BS! 

What a shock! Are the new meds helping?

FTR - They didn't take down the CIA, NSA, NORAD and the Pentagon. They overpowered a couple of pilots and a handful of flight attendants (and evidently left you dazed and confused).


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Dec 22, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > _Note: I am aware of the fact that there are several other open treads on 9-11 However, they have long been dormant since shortly after they was started earlier this year. In addition, none of them feature the film that I recently discovered. This is different. This is compelling and worth a look!_
> ...


Thank you! Excellent. A piece worth preserving


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 22, 2016)

yiostheoy said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > _Note: I am aware of the fact that there are several other open treads on 9-11 However, they have long been dormant since shortly after they was started earlier this year. In addition, none of them feature the film that I recently discovered. This is different. This is compelling and worth a look!_
> ...



Hate to make you cry son but his movie was 10 times more accurate than the warren commission was. dont feel bad you have been brainwashed on this though,

I was as well same as you  till I started reading several books on it several years ago back in the mid 80's.
 same as 9/11 you have done no research into the JFK assassination as well other than what the CIA controlled mainstream media and our corrupt school system reading only what their textbooks have told you. You have done the same thing with the JFK assassination that you have done with 9/11,read only what the government has told you.and like all Bush dupes,do THIS- when anybody shows you evidence you cant counter.

Hate to break your heart son but the majority of Stones movie was 95% accurate. Stone did not just invent stories for a good story.Unlike you,he exhaustlivey researched it mr magic bullet theorist.He based it mostly off Jim Marrs Book Crossfire  moron which you obviously have never read and never will since you cant deal with it that we live in a banana republic where the government can murder the president of the united states and get away with it. Crossfire has the most amazing details and facts that the warren commission left out. over 500 pages of incredible material in it.

Matter of fact  you are also ignorant to the fact that he researched the subject for YEARS on end before making the film going to the dallas musuem that had been run by Larry Howard who he got many documents and reading material he had collected over the years dating back to 1963.Howard spent his LIFETIME 3 decades worth,devoting THOUSANDS of hours of research into it and let Stone look at all his 30 years of research you fucking idiot troll.

I met Howard just a few months before he died matter of fact at a JFK conference in dallas in november on the 30tth anniversary in fact and someone in the crowd asked him the question-How accurate was the movie? and he relied saying about 95%.

Howard unlike you,was not not an idiot moron and actually looked at BOTH sides of the coin.

USMB's resident troll,the government paid shill rightwinger will post a smily after this post no doubt just like his boss tells him to.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 22, 2016)

yiostheoy said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > _Note: I am aware of the fact that there are several other open treads on 9-11 However, they have long been dormant since shortly after they was started earlier this year. In addition, none of them feature the film that I recently discovered. This is different. This is compelling and worth a look!_
> ...



PURE FICTION? you mean like the warren commission report  and the 9/11 commission report on the shot in the dark unproven theories they have that the fires caused the towers to collapse as well as bld 7  ignoring what witnesses reported those pure fiction investigations?
THOSE PURE FICTION EVENTS?


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Dec 22, 2016)

yiostheoy said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > You clowns are fond of calling anyone who disagrees with you "dupes" but the only dupes are you morons who have no scientific knowledge at all.  It is easy to dupe you because you have not the slightest bit of engineering sense.  By 10 year old daughter has a better grasp of science and engineering than you do.
> ...



For ONCE you actually spoke something intelligent.  I have never seen a mod have such  meltdowns when he is backed up against the wall and is losing a 9/11 discussion knowing he cant counter any of the evidence truthers present  to him that refute the governments unproven laughable theory that the fires caused the collapse of bld 7. same as you,.he refuses to even try to refute the facts when you present them and changes the subject to being involved in a plane crash or something lame and pathetic as that when he is backed up against the wall and knows he has been checkmated.as evidenced throughout this whole thread.

Out of frustration, he has temper tantrems knowing he gets constant ass beatings here all the time by us and gets checkmated  and loses everytime.some people are just sore losers when they get checkmated obviously.

whats hysterical though is when i tell the truth about people like  him and you, that you guys are Bush dupes obviously afraid to look at the evidence,is he gets angry hearing the truth that he is a brainwashed Bush dupe afraid to look at the facts and acknowleged them. The thing that is so funny in his temper tantrems of anger of hearing the truth he is a brainwashed Bush dupe afraid to look at the evidence though and getting mad at hearing that truth is that I was the same at one point as well just like you and him.so was Dale as well.

. "I" was ALSO a brainwashed Bush dupe same as you guys still are for THREE YEARS because I was not aware of the facts that were suppressed from me by the CIA controlled media you guys worship. The only difference is  between me and you STILL brainwashed Bush dupes is "I" have not been afraid to watch videos or read books that shoot down the lies of the 9/11 commission.

Dale Smith ALSO was the same as you guys at one time much worse than me even .Matter of fact,HE will even be the first one to tell you that he same as myself at one time and same as you both are,was also a brainwashed Bush dupe clueless and in denial same as you both are for like THIRTEEN YEARS or something like that and then FINALLY woke up just recently a few years ago incredibly.

.Only difference between you and him though is unlike you,he is not afraid to look at the evidence presented in videos or books.he doesnt run off with his tail between his legs when i challenge him to read a book or look at videos and dismiss them as opinions without even watching the videos evading them when challenged to look at them by talking of something so irrelevent to the topic such as personally  being involved in a planecrash,ect ect,blah,blah,blah. with the same old song and dance dodgeball game you Bush dupes play.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Dec 22, 2016)

psikeyhackr said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > psikeyhackr said:
> ...



Bush dupes run off with their tail between their legs EVERYTIME anybody brings up the fact that there were several credible witnesses "many being firefighters  expereinced in explosives"  that heard the sounds of explosives and who survived it were rightly so,insulted by the governments findings when they said the fires caused the collapse,many of the firefighters rightly so called the investigation a half baked farce. But credible witnesses of course dont count with Bush dupes,only what our corrupt government agencys and LAMESTREAM MEDIA tell them.

I would like to see these trolls like predfan and others that have trolled this thread cowardlly evading the facts from myself and many other truthers here,go up to the familys who lost their loved ones in this tragedy who ALSO dont accept the governments findings and also know about their lies knowing that it was a controlled demolition and go shit in their faces like they have on this thread by shitting on them telling them the governments version of events are correct and they did a good job investigating 9/11.

I hear that from ignorant trolls like predfan all the time,how I am being cruel to the 9/11 familys by saying explosives brought the towers down by our government.Oh really? if these trolls were not such stupid ass trolls,they would know THEMSELVES,there have been MANY 9/11 familys that are part of the truth movement and have come out and said that the government is lying as well,that it was a controlleld demoltion that brought down the towers.

THEY dont ignore what many witnesses reported that were there,many AGAIN being very credible ones such as firefighters experienced in explosives.they dont ignore how the investigation was a complete joke and con job

I know MANY independent 9/11 investigaters i have spoken to on the net who have talked to the familys who agree the government is lying,so BRING IT ON.I will be MORE THAN HAPPY to face them face to face and tell them the government murdered their familys.ANYTIME,BRING IT ON..i would not be the first.

 matter of fact i would be the 100th million person they would THANK for looking at the evidence and not ignoring the facts of a controlled demolition.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Dec 22, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > _Note: I am aware of the fact that there are several other open treads on 9-11 However, they have long been dormant since shortly after they was started earlier this year. In addition, none of them feature the film that I recently discovered. This is different. This is compelling and worth a look!_
> ...






I am afraid you are making wayyyyyyy too much sense for the Bush dupes to comprehend.Logic and Common sense like this post of yours is far too complicated for them to comprehend or understand.

I am afraid you will be waiting for years on end for them to even bother trying to comprehend what you just spoke just now same as how it looks like I will be waiting years on end for them to even  try and answer all the evidence and pesky facts that none will take a look at in post# 98 here of minehttp://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/9-11-startling-new-evidence-of-a-conspiracy.555857/page-10 and post #114   here as well.

9-11….. Startling New Evidence of a Conspiracy



they know they have been checkmated by you here same as they know they have been checkmated by me here in these two posts of mine so all they can come back with of course is one liner insults out of frustration of being taken to school.

Whats really funny though is some of them get angry about hearing the truth they are brainwashed Bush dupes in denial when the thing is,just like you,"I"  admit "I" was once like them as well and was ALSO a brainwashed Bush dupe for three years, and like you said,you as well were a brainwashed Bush dupe in denial sadly for 11 years like you just said so they are REALLY in the minor leagues when they try and stand toe to toe with you because of the fact you were once in their same shoes in also used every kind of excuse in the world same as them to avoid hearing the truth and or look at the evidence that you were lied to.



Like you said,you used them ALL for 11 years "their excuses and dodgeball games" same as they are doing now,so this is old hat for YOU hearing what you USED to say over and over again that has been debunked too many times to remember by independent experts not on the governments payroll.


the Bush dupes "which both me and you were at one time as well."  they of course will do the SAME EXACT SAME THING with this post of yours that they have done with post# 98 and Post#114  of mine-this-



makes me wonder,dont their feet EVER get sore and hurt from running off scarred all the time as they will with this post of yours as well?

as misterbeal said so well in these pics below they run off from everytime.

















not only that.SCREW credible witnesses such as firefighters experienced in explosives or demolition experts,THEY dont know what they are talking about after all.only the government agencys do AND the mainstream media know what they are talking about after all.oh and people who gave versions differen that the governments who ended up dying in very bizarre strage deaths,our government did not murder them of course.


----------



## Dale Smith (Dec 23, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> yiostheoy said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...




As usual, your post was pure greatness! Does it get cumbersome at times trying to get the blinded to wake the fuck up and see reality? It is for me at times....I often just want to throw up my hands and say "fuck it"...but I tarry on because the only chance we have is if enough people wake up to this bullshit before we become another communist China and I guaran-fucking-tee you that is exactly where we are heading.

To those of you that write stuff I enjoy but yet turn your nose up at 9/11/01? I was a fellow denier....hardcore as hell because to acknowledge it would be to admit my support of the neocons was wrong....and that my support of the illegal invasions into Afghanistan and Iraq was wrong.When I finally took the blinders off and I saw how badly we had been worked, how I had supported the suffering and needless deaths of innocents all to enrich the military industrial complex while our soldiers came home in body bags or missing limbs? I found it was rather easy to admit that I was wrong and it has pissed me off enough to educate myself on how things really work and who are the puppetmasters pulling the strings. I can point you in thew right direction but you have to want to know the ugly truth instead of believing in pretty little lies...it's not easy but you sleep better at night when you realize that by standing up for truth, you are standing up and being heard for those that were killed based on nothing but lies. There isn't a fucking thing ANYONE can post here that is going to shut me down and stop me from telling the truth while pointing out lies and I proudly stand behind TheProgressivePatriot on this even though we disagree on other things. I have the utmost respect for anyone that seeks the truth and is willing to put themselves out there knowing full well that he is opening himself up for ridicule and hate by the uninformed. LA RAM FAN is another knowledgeable truther that simply shakes his head at the ignorance of the masses but he is a walking, talking encyclopedia on the events of that day.

He stands tall...everyone that has taken off the blinders in support of TheProgressivePatriot whether it be with a post or a "thumbs up" are standing tall as well. You naysayers need to take a step back, look at the evidence and then see what has been lost in this country since the events of that day.


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## Dale Smith (Dec 23, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


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We may disagree on some things but anyone that is willing to lay it out there like you did and tell the truth or at least  attempt to try and get people to think when it comes to one of the most horrific self-inflicted wounds ever? Well, you have my utmost respect...this kind of shit has been going on for waaay too long. Every fucking war we have ever gotten into has been due to a false flag event and financed by the same puppetmasters that bet and hedge their bets on both sides. Good on ya for posting what you did and for being so concise with the information.

If I may suggest a great documentary that is incredibly done? Go to youtube.com and look up "JFK to 9/11...Everything Is A Rich Man's Trick"....it is a history lesson like no other and the hairs on your neck will stand on end because the realization of what we thought was "government" is nothing but a money making entity that has been sucking us dry for almost 100 years. The historical references are incredible. I have watched it at least 15 times and taken many pages of notes......why so many times? Because I have gotten so pulled in to the plot that I stopped jotting down notes and names. I will make a deal with you....if you watch it and you are not moved by it? I will send you a 50 dollar gift certificate to a restaurant chain of your choice. All I ask is if you did get a lot out of it, is that you pass it on.


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## rightwinger (Dec 23, 2016)

Oswald took his gun to work, fired three shots and blew JFKs brains out


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Dec 23, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


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Thank you. I found it and will watch it


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## Dale Smith (Dec 23, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> Oswald took his gun to work, fired three shots and blew JFKs brains out





rightwinger said:


> Oswald took his gun to work, fired three shots and blew JFKs brains out




Really? JFK was shot in the throat, was shot in the back and another shot that missed hit pavement and scraped a spectator on the cheek hard enough to draw blood.....then we have the shot that became the magic bullet that blew out the right hand side of Kennedy's head (that knocked him back and to the left by a "marksman" which Oswald was not using a bolt action rifle) that then passed through John Connally doing all kinds of u-turns while exiting and found in almost pristine condition on the gurney that JFK's body was resting on....are ya sure you want to go with that story?????

Seriously, if you believe that pile of shit, you are either the dumbest motherfucker on the planet or you are a "gubermint" shill....either way, you can't out debate me on this topic nor can you put any doubt in the minds of sane thinking people. You are more than welcome to try and debate me on JFK, OKC or 9/11....give it a go because I will fucking bury you under an avalanche of undeniable facts.....bring it.


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## rightwinger (Dec 23, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


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I hate it when even conspiracy nut jobs can't get their story correct

First shot hit the pavement
Second shot struck JFK in the upper back, passed through his throat and then hit John Connally.....that was your imaginary magic bullet
Third shot blew JFKs brains out


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## Dale Smith (Dec 23, 2016)

rightwinger said:


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So where did the throat and back shot come from? There were 8 shooters all positioned in strategic places...some from the CIA, some from the mafia and some Cuban sharpshooters. Oswald was given the test for gun spray and he had no ammo residue except from his handling of some bullets on his hand. Oswald never fired a shot nor did he kill Officer Tippet. Why did your beloved "gubermint" pick someone that had never done an autopsy on a gunshot victim to perform the most important autopsy in our history? What about the white chalk mark, the umbrella man? The three tramps, the gun smoke that was sen from the grassy knoll to deflect from the fact that Greer stopped at the white mark per the instructions of the CIA that if JFK wasn't dead that William Greer was to stop so the assassin in the storm drain had an easy shot????? You have nothing.....because you know nothing but what your beloved "gubermint" has told you....bring some game, home boy......so far you haven't shown me shit.....


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## rightwinger (Dec 23, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


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How did eight shooters only manage to get off three shots?


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## rightwinger (Dec 23, 2016)

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More imaginary "facts" from Dale

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/White Files/Warren Commission-Subject/Oswald/Oswald, Paraffin Tests.pdf

Dallas - Curry said ... paraffin tests, made to determine from powder residue whether Oswald had fired a gun, were positive. This meant Oswald had fired a weapon within a short time before he was arrested. Apparently it could have been either a rifle or a pistol - or both. They wouldn't say. AP, 1:50 pm CST Peggy Simpson


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## Dale Smith (Dec 23, 2016)

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They got off at least 16 shots...the "echos" of the shoots was the story the CIA used to dispute the multiple shots. They were synchronized and all of the shooters but the one in the storm drain (that was the last resort) had radios because they wanted a back of the head shot but they were willing to do what it took to kill him and let the rest of the military industrial complex to handle the details because they had all their bases covered. They even took JFK's body away at gunpoint when the doctors at Parkland told the Feds that they had no jurisdiction...these doctors that  saw the wounds that were ignored by the inexperienced coroner at Bethesda were very vocal about the events of that day. BTW, there was another gunshot that went through the front windshield of the limo that people witnessed.......your move????


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## Dale Smith (Dec 23, 2016)

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100 percent total bullshit...........


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## Dale Smith (Dec 23, 2016)

rightwinger said:


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Oswald's Rifle and Paraffin Tests : The JFK Assassination


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 23, 2016)

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You know its funny how that brainwashed troll who ignores facts how the warren commission is pure fiction same as the 9/11 commission report brought up the JFK assassination because that was WHY unlike you,I did not believe a word of what the media was telling me in the moments when it first happened, that their version of events was correct because of the fact the mainstream media is controlled by the CIA and they got paid shills on message boards such as predfan and USMB's biggest resident troll rightwinger.I am beginning to think this idiot is another plant of theirs on their payroll as well that has penetrated this forum.they got them on message boards like this one everywhere trolling night and day.

Even though the first three years I did not believe a word of it that 19 muslims and Bin Laden were behind the attacks,i did not go around telling people it was an inside job back then because i only had suspecions to go by.I was not aware of the evidence or facts those first three years so I accepted it and considered i might be wrong this time.But then of course three years later a friend of mine loaned me some DVD's with eyewitness testimonys of survivors of the towers collapse and the pentagon and proved the government had no evidence for their theories and that of course is when i knew my suspecions were correct.I wanted to be wrong but too many facts the government suppressed emerged and that was when i found out the sad truth that I was right from day one.

 I used to be be so angry about 9/11 how the government murdered 3000 of its own citizens that I was obsessed about it for years and same as when i saw the lies of the JFK assassination back in the 80's,i spent every waking hour researching it. My old user name as you recall was 9/11 was an inside job and that because when i first came here ten years ago it had only been only a few years since 9/11 had happened.

I normally dont talk about 9/11 anymore because objective open minded people like me and you as well as the majority of the 9/11 familys and pretty much the entire population of new york,we all know it was an inside job so does a great majority of the population of the rest of the country. as i said,I normally dont engage in threads like this anymore since when i first came here i spent hours on end everyday talking about this with so many idiot trolls like predfan and that yost moron or whatever he calls himself.

I only came on this thread because progressive patriot is not sure as of yet it appears to have made up his mind about 9/11 and he  looks to be on the fence of it so i thought I would share a couple of posts with him that if he looks at those videos i posted, or reads the book in the link i suggested,he will see for himself the evidence that the CIA was behind 9/11 is even greater than them being behind the JFK assassination which has been proven time and time again over the years through documents and available evidence.

what i find comical is I have seen posters like you post over the years that while they dont believe the lies of the warren commission that oswald was the lone assassin and know the truth the CIA killed JFK,no matter what evidence you give them that they were behind 9/11 as well,amazingly they run off with their tail between their legs refusing to look at anything you present.

They are Bush dupes same as you were for 11 years.they have the same fucked up warped logic you had for 11 years that even though they cant accept it that the CIA killed JFK because he was going to pull out of vietnam by 1965 where the military industrial complex stood to lose untold amounts of dollars for not having a war,you give them videos and links to look at as myself and progressive patriot has,they cover their ears and eyes.

They somehow believe it that our government killed JFK because he was a threat to the establishments plans yet somehow incredibly,they wont look at the evidence you present on 9/11.I have seem posters over the years say to things like-No I dont believe everything the government tells me. I know the JFK assassination was a lie.I know the CIA was behind it all but to say they are behind 9/11 is absurd.

I am not kidding.i have run into people like that over the years too many times to remember.

I guess its no surprise really though because its easy for them to accept the CIA killed JFK because that was so long ago,before many here were born I am sure where 9/11 they cant accept obviously because it hits too close to home for them being much more recent and the fact the did not just kill pone person,they murdered over 3000 of their own citizens is why they accept it about JFK but not on 9/11.

The of course you also have these stupid ass moron trolls like this yost dumbshit or whatever he calls himself who STILL believe oswald shot JFK.

I wont waste my time and effort on some idiot who still believes in THAT old fairy tale,nobody EVER should,ignore them and move on.

It is only people like you who are in the dark on 9/11 like you were for so many years that I will bother to waste my time on because for the people like yourself who know that the CIA killed JFK,I ask them the same question i would have asked you five years after 9/11 happened had you been here back then.had you been here five years ago,I would have asked you back then-why it is you can accept it that the warren commission lied,that the CIA killed JFK but you cannot accept it they were behind 9/11 as well?  they usually either change the subject and throw one liner insults or they act like you did not ask that question and then run off and evade it everytime. I figure people like you who can at LEAST accept it that the CIA killed JFK,there is hope for on 9/11 in the future but idiot morons like yost? THEY  are hopeless obviously after all these years.,you got to ignore them and move on to someone else.

they run off and evade it because you struck a cord with them that makes sense and since they know they can hide behind the computer and not have to asnwer the question,they pretend they did not see it and then they start to think once they get off the computer that there might be something to  it since they realise  that of our government is STILL lying to them about the JFK assassination all these years later, It then dawns on them same as it did you i am sure that of they are still lying about that event all these years later,then WHY would they be telling the truth about 9/11 as well which is WHY people like you eventually wise up and get their head out of their ass and then wake up as you did.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 23, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> rightwinger said:
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 Dale do me this one tiny favor.dont waste your time on this stupid fuck paid shill of the governments.He is INDEED a troll on their payroll they have sent to troll these boards night and day and try to ridicule people like you who expose the lies of the warren commission that there were multiple shooters involved and prove that oswald was innocent.same as with the lies of 9/11 as well.

Myself and DOZENS of others handed USMB's resident troll here his ass to him on a platter over this SEVERAL times  SEVERAL times over the years over and over again and he STILL trolls today on this that oswald was the lone assassin no matter how many times posters such as myself say to him-i guess you forgot how i proved your lies to be  wrong and that they were lies many times  months ago? or they will say-you never addressed any of my facts i posted that oswald was innocent and you are still saying the same old BS.

take my advise on this shill-

He is just here to waste your time,dont take his bait.

100 percent total bullshit...........
so what ELSE did you expect from USMB's resident paid troll?


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 23, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


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as i got done saying,dont waste your valuable time on him.thats what he wants is for you to take his bait and waste it on him.Thats what his boss sends him to do because you are correct,he IS  guberment paid shill so is predfan. I am beginning to wonder about yiostheoy as well if he is one same as them.

I dont think so since he hasnt come back as of yet for an ass beating from me or you that oswald was innocent after i took him to school earlier on this. I think unlike rightwinger,HE is just a brainwashed stupid fuck moron incapable of thinking for himself and just listens to everything the lamestream media papers tells him since he always runs off with his tail between his legs anytime someone like me or you takes him to school where USMB'S resident troll rightwinger on the other hand and predfan as well,pretends you did not post anything that proves there is no evidence that oswald did it but TONS that there were multiple shooters.

that is HOW  you can tell rightwinger and predfan  is a paid shill where that other guy is just a stupid fuck who believes everything the government tells him the fact he ran off and has not come back since then for more ass beatings on that subject for you or me.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 23, 2016)

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Hey Progressive Patriot and Dale Smith I got a couple of questions for both of you.

Sadly I am left having to ask the both of you this question since all the Bush dupes here wont take me up on the challenge.

first question since NONE OF THEM will talk about the evidence in these three videos and they always prove they did not watch either one by dismissing it as one of them did saying they are just opinions and not facts which is the red flag right there and PROOF they did not watch either one of them. have you both seen these three videos? I think i might have asked you that question once Dale but if I did,i dont remember your answer.

You both MUST watch these three videos IF YOU HAVE NOT  because any thinking logical person who is open minded, objective with logic and common sense can see the evidence in these videos contrary to what some troll mentioned earlier,is NOT opinions,they are cold hard facts that have never been debunked with overwhelming evidence that it was indeed a joint CIA/mossad operation   that if we had an honest government with a fair objective and truthful investigation into this,they would have concluded it was a joint CIA/mossad operation. Nobody has ever been able to debunk either of  the three.
they are long,over 3 hours except the last one, but since you both obviously want to know the truth,i know you will find the time to look at them.



Dale I am pretty sure YOU have read this book.Have you Progressive Patriot? for one such as yourself on the fence on this,you for sure need to read this book if you only read one more book the rest of your life. Nobody has ever been able to debunk it.Not the government,none of the shills on this this forum like rightwinger,NOBODY.the author has even challenged the Bush administration and now Obama administration and all of our corrupt members of congress and criminal politicians to debate him out in the open on CSPAN. to no surprise at all.NONE OF THE BUSH AND OBAMA ASS KISSERS will take him on the challenge,they are cowards that know they cant debunk it.







Also a  question for both of you. Is Dale I know it wasnt till recenty years that you got you finally realised you had been brainwashed on 9/11 all the years. How about you Progressive Patriot? was it in just recent years you woke up about this and had doubts I assume? I mean you might as well be talking about how the CIA killed JFK same as JFK,thats old news that the awake already know.lol

I dont know if my last question applies to you or not Progressive patriot that is why it is mostly for Dale here but if it does,by all means i would like you to comment on it as well.

Dale I know there are thousands of brainwashed sheep out there that like yourself,even though they have are aware of the truth that the CIA killed JFK because he wanted to pull us out of vietnam,i try and tell and ask them the question-well if they did such an evil act like that,then WHY do you disregard all the evidence i have given you on 9/11 and wont look at it as you will with JFK? You are doing the same thing with 9/1 that the sheep who still think oswald shot JFK do.You go and tell them they are ignorant and in denial for not looking at the evidence but yet you do the same thing here on 9/11..why are you being such a hypocrite jerk on this?

do either of you ever encounter people like that? I have over the years and they either stop talking to me because they are in denial so much since 9/11 hits too close to home for them since it was so much more recent or they simply do the same thing these Bush ass kissers have aon this whole thread,come back with one liner insults and then give up as many here have all done which is why I have no choice to talk to both of you about this? that being said,have you encountered those types and if so,what has been YOUR experience with them when that comes up?  thanks.


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## rightwinger (Dec 23, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


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When challenged with actual facts....denial is your strongest defense


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 23, 2016)

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Like clockwork.the lying paid shill crys in defeat disguising his crying and ass beating here from you as smileys trying to convince you is laughing when he is in reality crying cause he cant counter your facts. thats his only rebuttals each time is a laughing smiley in defeat from his constant ass beatings he gets from people like you and me here everyday on both topics all the time.


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## rightwinger (Dec 23, 2016)

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Damn...do I own this bitch or what?


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 23, 2016)

i wondered when the resident shill ^ would come back and shit on the floor in this thread again whining in defeat.


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## Paulie (Dec 24, 2016)

rightwinger said:


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So what's your opinion on building 7?


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## Paulie (Dec 24, 2016)

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If you watch the video close up of the tower without the antenna starting to collapse, the section above the damage starts to topple towards the side as if it's just going to fall off.. which is what you would expect based on physics.. but then somehow magic happens and at that exact moment the pancake collapse starts instead. I always thought that was strange


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## Paulie (Dec 24, 2016)

Building 7 is the only aspect of 9/11 worth debating. It's the only one where there is clear contradiction of physics in the official explanation. I don't claim to know jack shit about what really happened or who was involved or whether jet fuel melts steel or whether there was a missile at the pentagon or any of that bullshit. But I don't believe for a second that building 7 collapsed the way it did because of collateral damage on one side and standard office fires


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 27, 2016)

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hey progressive patriot and dale,you never answered my questions I asked here on this post.


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## Dale Smith (Dec 27, 2016)

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I have watched those videos and anything I could get my hands on including the Popular Mechanics bullshit side so I could make coherent arguments that 9/11 was a false flag. I was late to the truther party after being one of their most critical opponents so I am paying penance. I have gotten quite a few people to at least think about 9/11 but the ones that refuse always say the same shit..."It would take too many people involved in it and someone would have spoken by now". My response is that things are very compartmentalized. People could have played their part in this and not even realize that they were being used.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 27, 2016)

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yeah but you did not answer my question on though i asked where have you come across people like you used to be,so dense that while you COULD accept it that the CIA killed JFK,and are still lying about that today yet at the same time they cannot accept it that 9/11 was an inside job,have you ever come across THOSE people that were like you at one time?

those are the only ones i even bother with because when you use logic and common sense,they get stumped everytime and dont post again on the thread because you know you got them stumped that if our government could do such an evil act like that,then it then dawns on them there is a real strong possibility they were behind 9/11 as well so that makes them think and they dont come has been my experience.what has been YOUR experience with those types of people which i assume you have run into them on the net as well?


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## Dale Smith (Dec 27, 2016)

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Yeah, I have ran across people that don't buy the Warren Report and the magic bullet theory but can't fathom that 9/11 was a Pearl Harbor like false flag event.

A: We have a deep state i.e " shadow government" capable of doing that.

B: It's too much for them to contemplate that they would be complicit in it because then one's whole belief system would be exposed for being a lie.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 27, 2016)

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what has been your experience with them when you give them evidence like that book of Griffins that has never been debunked or ask them the question-wait a minute,you can accept the fact that the CIA killed JFK cause he was going to pull out of vietnam yet you cannt accept it they did 9/1 as well so they could start another fake and phony war and even though our government is STILL lying to you all these years later saying the warren commission is correct you STILL believe them  even though they have lied to DECADES now  about JFK,waco and other events?

what do they say when you say THAT to them? like i said,my experience is they never have any answers,they stop posting because you make too much sense.PLUS they are too scared to read griffins book everytime i challenge them to just as they all have proved on this thread and they do the same thing that they did on this thread,stop posting since they prove they wont look at the evidence plus it makes too much sense to them that if they are still lying about JFK,that it must be true to them they are lying on this issue as well so they never come back as they have not on this thread has been MY experience  them, have you had pretty much had  the same experience thing as well with them? lol


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## Dale Smith (Dec 27, 2016)

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If we are talking in real time, they start sweating...then they stutter and stammer trying to come up with an explanation that soothes their feelings and keeps that staid belief system in place. I don't persist too hard because I was just like them...but if I gave them something to think about? That is all I can hope for. On the internet? They either start trolling me or they totally ignore me.....either way is fine with me. The scales have fallen from my eyes and I see very clearly....and it's not a pretty picture.  Here is a video one of my awaken brothers did that's pretty bad ass.......

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...0616&id=853584438054063&__mref=message_bubble


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 27, 2016)

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yeah on the net they indeed start trolling as they all have on this thread with the usual typical one liners insults since they know they are backed up against the wall with nowhere to run.Yeah that has been pretty much my experience as well in real time when i ask them that question,when i challenge them to rad griffins book or say it was done for the same reason they killed kennedy to get us into another fake and phony war so the bankers could profit from they pretty much do the same thing,stammer knowing they are licked and when i ask them to read the book they invent excuse after excuse not to read it yet they have all the time in the world to read books critical of the warren commission as the same time?


i then end up doing this to them telling them the are being cowards afraid to read a simple book and they of course get mad since they hate hearing that little truth.


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## Dale Smith (Dec 27, 2016)

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Those that deny this false flag event have never done one hour of research or they are "gubermint" trolls that are hired to disrupt discussions. That's right, this corporate "government" actually pays posters to troll messageboards and social media to disrupt conversations and tout the official narratives of anything that they wish to push. Prime example is gun control. Any shooting event that was news on Yahoo had a comment section and I started seeing a pattern of the same posters writing the same shit....so I did a search of their IDs and the only comments that they made was about the need for gun control......so fucking busted....thousands of posts and the only comments about the day's news had to do with guns???? Doesn't take an Einstein to figure that one out....


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Dec 27, 2016)

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Holy crap, you guys are really intense and into this. Me, not so much but it is fascinating . I watched  portions of the first and  last video and they are pretty compelling. I skipped Alex Jones -he has no credibility with me.

As you know, I have been a non committal fence sitter on 9-11 but have always had my doubts about the official version and now I'm a  good deal closer to the controlled demolition theory.

I never bought the Warren Commission results but I think that we will never get the truth about either of these things. I will try to read the book as well if I can get to it. Thank  you


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## Dale Smith (Dec 27, 2016)

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> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
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The fact that you are even willing to doubt the official story of 9/11/01 is enough for me...you will have to reach your own conclusions like I did...and I was a big time denier. Hell, I took delight on busting on the "truthers" and now here I am......it's a lot easier being on the other side of the fence, I can tell ya that much. I implore you to sit down and watch "JFK to 9/11...Everything Is A Rich Man's Trick" on youtube. I know that it is long but I promise you that someone like you and your intellect will be totally engrossed in it...it's a history lesson like no other and it has no partisan leaning, it has no agenda outside of wanting people to wake the fuck up....war is good and war and threats keep the masses afraid and going along with this madness. Like I said, if you watch that documentary and you are not moved? I will send you a fifty dollar gift card for the restaurant chain of your choice.......


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 28, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...



I dont blame you for not watching the alex jones video but I really would do so if i were you.It took me years to believe this,I just could not believe it at first because he DOES do an excellent job of telling the truth about government corruption that you wont hear from the mainstream media.

However what I did not believe at first and now know to indeed be true is that he is a fear mongerer working for the government. the majority of what he does say is pretty much spot on,that is WHY I could not believe that he was working for them for so many years the fact he was exposing things the media is not telling us about but that is because they need someone like him that people can trust.

See they dont care if their corruption that the media never reports is told by jones because they KNOW the american people are too lazy and wont do anything about it.

See even though I KNOW that he is not one of us,not trying to stop government corruption,i STILL listen to him because you WILL learn a lot from him since again he is telling the truth about government corruption going on that the media is not reporting so you will learn a lot from him.

Just dont make the mistake that many americans have and trust him and send off for things to buy from him though because what he is hoping to accomplish is strike fear into the american people and get them to rebel against the government so the government can declare martial law on us.

However I would STILL encourage you to watch the video because it is factual and spot on. just dont go and purchase it or anything else from alex like i said earlier is all.

the thing that FINALLY woke me up that he was indeed working for the government was he always took credit for exposing 9/11 when it was actually Bill Cooper who did. Now Cooper WAS  a true patriot unlike alex jones so when he came out and exposed it,they murdered him.Plus Jones made up all these lies about Cooper saying he was an alchoholic and BS like that.everybody that knew Cooper,his family and friends,all said he never touched alcohol.

Plus it is so obvious his protests are staged. Once In Austin,he had a bullhorn when George W Bush was speaking calling him a criminal and murderer and the police KINDLY escorted him out and even though he spent the night in jail,he was fine the next day where in this truther video a truther shot,some american tried to make a citizen arrest of Bush and he got tackled by the police and they sat on him and he was yelling in pain.they would have done the same with Jones if his protests were not fixed.

The government can murder anybody and get away with it,just look as JFK,they have gotten away with murdering a president all these years after all so if Jones was a true patriot like Cooper was,they would have killed him YEARS ago as well.

But as I said,I know Jones is evil but you can still glean from him the fact he is telling what is going on that the CIA controlled media is not telling.He had all kinds of information about 9/11 exposing it as an inside job  way before many others after all.

You nailed it,that the truth will never be told about either of these events,that is why I NORMALLY  say to people like yourself when they make one of these threads,that 9/11 is done and over with,its just like the JFK assassination,long done and over with,time to move on and stop worrying about 9/11 because it is the LEAST of our problems we have to worry about from the government right now.

what we HAVE to worry about now is trying to find SOLUTIONS to hold these criminal congressmen in washington accountable for their crimes they commit against us and unfortunatly nobody including myself,has any solutions.

I usually tell someone like yourself who comes on and makes a thread like this when exposing 9/11,i usually say to them-why dont you stop talking about it and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?

Only reason i did not with you  is because you were on the fence with it when tyou first made this thread so that was the only reason i cut you some slack. anyways,I hope you will watch the video anyways because while Jones is indeed working FOR them,you still learn things from him that will never get reported from the mainstream media after all and like i said,that video IS spot on and has never been refuted.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 28, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > LA RAM FAN said:
> ...



It blows me away that you have watched that video SEVERAL times. so far I have only had the chance to not watch it more than twice myself.

just wondering Dale,say you had been here at this site five years ago, just take a wild guess of what would have been YOUR reply to me back then had you gotten on a 9/11 thread like this one and refused to look at the evidence like all these Bush dupes trolls here  have and i said to you back then -"Let me guess,you believe in magic bullets and that oswald shot JFK as well right?"

and your reply of course would have been something like-"No I recognize the government has lied to us about that one,but to say 9/11 is an inside job is absurd."  I of course  am just GUESSING  that  your reply back then would have been something nutty like that or similiar to it.

anyways after you gave a reply like that,try as best as you CAN remember back then, how you would have replied to me on this message board had i said this to you back then when you were STILL a Bush dupe- Okay Dale you are not making any sense,you are just helping me prove my case for me that 9/11 was an inside job. You just admitted yourself that you dont believe the governments lie that they are STILL telling that oswald shot JFK,you said you accept it that the CIA killed kennedy cause he was going to pull us out of vietnam,well since you can accept the government lied to us about THAT and re still lying about it today,WHAT is up with your warped logic you have that they could have done such an evil act like that not only murdering kennedy,but murdering 58.000 americans so they could profti from war,yet you STILL incredibly believe the official governments version they are telling you about 9/11 despite the lack of evidence or proof they have failed to produce,yet you believe their lies on THIS,not able to comprehend that the government did 9/11 for the same reason they killed JFK to get us into a war so all these bankers and corporations can profit from it? what kind of fucked up logic do you have Dale?

As i said,PRETEND for a second this is five years ago when you were still a brainwashed Bush dupe on this like many here still are,as BEST AS YOU CAN REMEMBER,what would your reply be to me on this post of mine to you five years ago to answer this post? as best as you can remember how you replied to posts back then,post how you remember you did to a question like this five years ago.thanks.


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Dec 28, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > LA RAM FAN said:
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I find it hard to believe that Jones ever told the truth about anything but maybe I'll give it a shot. He works for the government? What part of the government? The administration? The CIA? Wait! He works for the government while exposing government corruption??! Even if people are not paying attention- it seems to be a contradiction, and you're paying attention so there must be others.  I'll try to digest the rest of this later


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 28, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
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> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
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I'll PM mistebeal and maybe he can explain it to you better than I can. For a long time he tried to get me to believe it but I did not see it.Like I said,it wasnt till he made up that lie about Copper that he sold me that is not on our side as I believed for so many years.

 I  did not believe him when he told me about Jones, but then i heard the lies he made up about Bill Cooper and that sold me he was a double agent. think about it,what better way to be able for the government to keep tabs on every dissenter than for them to have a plant like alex jones telling things the mainstream media wont report so they will trust him and confide eveything to him. makes perfect sense to me.Bill Cooper obviously made that fatal mistake with him. Like i said,I'll get Beal here to explain it to you.He can do it much  better than I can.


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## psikeyhackr (Dec 28, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> Every camera in NYC was trained on the WTC. There is no evidence of a floor by floor string of explosions that brought down the towers.



Yeah, videos of material shooting outward level by level is irrelevant.

psik


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## psikeyhackr (Dec 28, 2016)

SAYIT said:


> Not that anyone saw anyone rig those buildings for demo - a monumental task - nor has anyone admitted to having been involved, and seismic evidence shows no CD explosions. Furthermore, the Towers were hit by freakin' passenger jets loaded with jet fuel which ignited and caused the chaotic fires that burned for HOURS. How the hell could demo rigging survive that and even if some of it - not that there is any evidence there ever was any - managed to survive, enough would have had to have been destroyed to make a controlled demo impossible.



So making models of straight down collapse should not be difficult.

Oh yeah, no one has done it in 15 years.  Oh yeah, the NIST can't even specify the distribution of concrete down the building in 10,000 pages so no one can make a good model.  Curious that.

psik


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## psikeyhackr (Dec 28, 2016)

PredFan said:


> Ironic that you call me intellectually deprived because I believe what happened, but you believe nonsense to the point where you are completely unable to think.
> 
> It isn't curious at all, there could be many reasons that they didn't know, and all of them innocent. You prefer to make something out of nothing because you want to believe an unfounded and impossible conspiracy theory.



Conspiracies are irrelevant!  It is just physics.  So what is the problem with experiments?  If what so many people believe is true then the experiments should simply prove the collapses were possible.

A model of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge only took 4 months.  But no engineering school has even said they would try in FIFTEEN YEARS.  Very Scientific!

psik


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## PredFan (Dec 28, 2016)

psikeyhackr said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > Ironic that you call me intellectually deprived because I believe what happened, but you believe nonsense to the point where you are completely unable to think.
> ...



How the fuck are they supposed to recreate two planes smashing into two buildings? That's pretty ridiculous. We saw the planes hit and we saw the buildings drop. Making something that's not only more complicated but virtually impossible out of something simple is just stupid.


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## psikeyhackr (Dec 28, 2016)

PredFan said:


> How the fuck are they supposed to recreate two planes smashing into two buildings? That's pretty ridiculous. We saw the planes hit and we saw the buildings drop. Making something that's not only more complicated but virtually impossible out of something simple is just stupid.



That is the biggest joke of 9/11!

The Twin Towers were probably the first buildings designed via computers.  An IBM 1620 computer was used to design the columns.  The 1620 was 1959 technology.  

Now we are supposed to take climate simulations 100 years into the future seriously but we are supposed to believe that 30 second collapses of skyscrapers can be done in 15 years.  Forget the planes!  Remove 5 stories, 91 through 95.  Drop the top 15 stories through the empty 60 foot gap and analyze the result on the lower 90 stories.  Removing 5 stories is more damage than aircraft impact and fire could possibly have done.

Now if the simulation comes nowhere near complete collapse then....

But then we are supposed to believe that scientists and engineers can't think of a simulation that simple in FIFTEEN YEARS.

But then the NIST cannot even specify the total amount of concrete in the towers in 10,000 pages.  However an accurate simulation cannot be made without accurate steel and concrete distribution data.

psik


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## Dale Smith (Dec 29, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
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Nothing personal, but I don't want to revisit the days when I was one of the sheeple....nothing that I could post about my responses to truthers would make me come off as someone other than a sheeple. I have evolved and moved on. Wallowing in my prior stupidity doesn't help my cause.....hope you understand.


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## Dale Smith (Dec 29, 2016)

PredFan said:


> psikeyhackr said:
> 
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So, here is my question to you......the higher a building/skyscraper is built, the less weight they put on the foundation by lessening the weight of the higher floors. The inner core of both towers were intertwined with rebar encased in concrete. Think of a skyscraper like a needle....the very point is light weight....the base is the strength. There is NO fucking way that both towers and WTC7 should have collapsed in free fall fashion....none, zero......nada unless there were explosives planted there....and many people have testified to that fact. People have been executed on less credibhle eye-witnes accounts of a crime than what happened that day......it's a fact.


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## psikeyhackr (Dec 29, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> ....the higher a building/skyscraper is built, the less weight they put on the foundation by lessening the weight of the higher floors.



What!?!?!?

What is your evidence for that statement?

The absurd thing about 9/11 is that we do not have data on the tons of steel and tons of concrete on every level of the Twin Towers.  The NIST does not even specify the total amount of concrete in the towers but they do for the steel.  Why is that about?

psik


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 29, 2016)

psikeyhackr said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > ....the higher a building/skyscraper is built, the less weight they put on the foundation by lessening the weight of the higher floors.
> ...



Boy  you need to get off the weed you been smoking because it is obviously keeping you from using  logic and common sense dude.lol.

Dude it does  not take a rocket scientist to understand that very well known fact same as it does not take a rocket scientist to understand that fires dont cause a building to fall straight down at freefall speed in their own footprint within seconds,that it happens GRADUALLY over a long period of time like a few hours. Bush dupes like predfan are so much in denial on.

when you put down the weed and stop doing an imitation of a Bush dupes in denial like predfan,he will then have a mature discussion with you and keep taking you to school on this as he has done so well.


thats been well known since the dawn of time when towers like that started getting built. Obviously you have never spoken to an architect in your lifetime..  You been hanging around with predfan too long since like him,  you dont want o hear pesky little FACTS.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 29, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
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> > Dale Smith said:
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Well i wont take it personal as long as you follow through on  what you said you would do with that troll on my thread in the sports section  to give him shit.I been waiting for you on that for a couple weeks now.I thought you agreed it would be fun to mess with him?


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## Dale Smith (Dec 29, 2016)

psikeyhack


r said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > ....the higher a building/skyscraper is built, the less weight they put on the foundation by lessening the weight of the higher floors.
> ...



Wow, what you just posted has totally nullified my thousand or so hours of research.......seriously....you summed up in a few sentences what I have failed to grasp in the last five years....how did you do that????

Tell me more........I sit here "wide-eyed" waiting with bated breath as to how those two buildings fell down at "free-fall speed"....you are the missing link to this puzzle I have tried to solve.....don't leave me hangin'.......


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 29, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > psikeyhackr said:
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Be careful.Logic and common sense never registers with that troll.he will get angry and have temper tantrems since he knows he is backed up against the wall and then put you on ignore after this.he hates being taken to school.


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## PredFan (Dec 29, 2016)

psikeyhackr said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > How the fuck are they supposed to recreate two planes smashing into two buildings? That's pretty ridiculous. We saw the planes hit and we saw the buildings drop. Making something that's not only more complicated but virtually impossible out of something simple is just stupid.
> ...



90% of your post is irrelevant nonsense. The other 10% is the incredibly stupid idea that we can in fact simulate the falling of those two towers.

You choose to believe in impossible scenarios then go ahead. I chose to believe what i saw and what common sense and an education tell me.


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## PredFan (Dec 29, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> PredFan said:
> 
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> > psikeyhackr said:
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And here's my answer to you. As layers collapse the weight of materials of each floor add up. If you will recall, the planes didn't hit the top floors. The first collapse was a combination of many floors. Plenty of weight to collapse the remaining floors in succession as the weight quickly climbs with each pancaked layer.

Not only is it absolutely logical and probable that they collapsed but we actually saw the proof.

The only thing that is certainly IMPOSSIBLE, is that a demolition team was able to plant hundreds perhaps thousands of pounds of explosives, and miles of wire and cable, it order to bring down the towers without ANYONE, in the building seeing any of it happen. Not the people that work there, not the maintenance crews, or the cleaning people or building security.  The whole idea is ludicrous.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 29, 2016)

two farts in a row from the paid shill..^


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## Dale Smith (Dec 29, 2016)

PredFan said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
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It doesn't take thousands of pounds of explosives when it come to thermite. Strategically placed pieces on floors could easily bring the building down...and you know why I know this???? Because it fucking happened right in front of my eyes that day. Please spare me about how jet fuel causes steel beams to break in the vicinity of the crash while causing the stories underneath the crash to fall with no resistance....none, nada, zero....wake the fuck up......


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 29, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
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the only thing that could have been better in the post after you said wake the fuck up was you should have said-wake the fuck up and stop get out of your fantasyworld that magic bullets exist,that is your first step you need to take is stop being afraid of the truth and accept it that the CIA killed JFK and you have no facts to prove oswald did it but there are plenty to prove there were multipls shooters.

i wish you would add that on to your post as well editing it to say that,he has me on ignore cause he got frustrated years ago when i took him to school on this and proved him wrong so he has had me on ignore ever since the last several years.


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## Dale Smith (Dec 29, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
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Dude, he will soon ignore me.........no great loss. I have tired of trying to educating the shills. His beloved "gubermint" that  killed JFK took down the twin towers....it's a fucking fact.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 29, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
> ...




see this is the kind of troll i was talking to you about earlier that you should not even take the time to bother with,think about it for a minute,if this stupid fuck STILL after all these years incredibly STILL thinks oswald shot JFK,he obviously is in denial that the CIA killed him cause he was going to pull out of vietnam so WHY would you even bother wasting your time on this stupid ass troll when he wont even accept it he has been brainwashed all these years on JFK as well?


see that is WHY I wish YOU were here five years ago,people like you who once could accept it that the CIA killed JFK cause he was going to pull us out of vietnam,I would have had a field day with YOU years ago cause as i got done saying ealier i would have asked you back then-wait a minute dale,you are telling me you can accept it that the CIA killed JFK cause he was going to pull us out of voetnam,that you do accept there was a conspiracy for that yet you are telling me the government did not do 9/11,that they are telling the truth to us about that even though they still lie to us about JFK and you cant fathom 9/11 was done for the same reason they killed JFK is to get us into aanother fake war so all these corporations can proftit from it.do you even hear what you are saying dale?


see i would have said somethign like that to you back then because people like who do accept it that the CIA killed kennedy but were not behind 9/11,they always leave and dont come back knowing they are stumped. but THIS troll same as rightwinger,is obviously on the goverments payroll the fact he defends the warren commission as well


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## Dale Smith (Dec 29, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
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Yeah, you will have to excuse me....venting on trolls and dumb fucks is therapeutic to me..... a source of venting.....a sense of self satisfaction...it's a guilty pleasure of mine.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 29, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
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well thats why i was saying,dont bother with him or rightwinger,they are both  obviously paid shills on the governments payroll sent here to try derail any kind of truth discussion about those two events.

thats what i was saying,just bother with the people like the way you YOU were five years ago,someone who could accept facts the CIA was behind JFK's death cause he wanted to pull us out of vietnam but are in deninal about 9/11 cause THOSE kind of people,as it has been proven with You,there IS hope for cause they get stumped when you tell them-wait a minute,you are telling me you can accept the fact the CIA killed JFK cause he was going to pull us out vietnam cause war means money for these corporations and bankers yet you are telling me you cannot accpet they did 9/11 as well for the same reason?

see those people are always like you were,they get stumped and they run off cause they know they cant get around that logic and common sense so with people like THEM as you have proven once being in their shoes,there IS hope for.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 29, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > LA RAM FAN said:
> ...



matter of fact i came across one of those posters a couple months ago when he came on a 9/11 thread.he had mentioned earlier in a thread of government corruption,that JFK was killed by the CIA i then replied to him saying-you are obviously one of those people who can accept it the CIA killed JFK yet you cant deal with it they were behind 9/11 as well for the same reason,to get us into another fake and phony war. well like clockwork,he ran off with his tail between his legs and did not come back,they never do as I am sure you are aware? so I am going to try and hunt him down and hopefully he is still posting and i can get him to come on this thread so we can take him to school on 9/11 as well and wake him up that he has been lied to on that event same as he was on JFK. he probably wont take up my invitation though if i DO find him for obvious reasons..


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## Dale Smith (Dec 29, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...




Dude, seriously, there isn't anyone in this forum that could take us on when it comes to 9/11....no way, no how........tails tucked between their legs while pretending that they never participated in the thread........


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 29, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > LA RAM FAN said:
> ...



well thats pretty obvious.just look at all the Bush dupes here that have all given up that are not on the governments payroll.lol Its only that one shill on the governments payroll still bothering and the only reason he is of course is cause he is well paid.lol


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## PredFan (Dec 30, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



Ok, so tell me how much thermite does it take? Hundreds of pounds? Or is it so powerful that it takes a mere ounce to shatter concrete and steel? Can a person take one ounce and bring down an entire building with it? 

Think man, think.


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## PredFan (Dec 30, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



Are you talking about me? I'm not ignoring you.


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## SAYIT (Dec 30, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Dude, seriously, there isn't anyone in this forum that could take us on when it comes to 9/11....no way, no how....tails tucked between their legs....
> ...



To ProgPat: As advertised, if you slither down that 9/11 rabbit hole you too will end up a babbling idiot, just like RamFan & Smith.

As for you two, playtime is over. Pull up your zippers, wipe your chins, and get back on the bus:


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## PredFan (Dec 30, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > LA RAM FAN said:
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Vent all you want to. The intensity of your reply doesn't add anything truthful to it. Just so you know.


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## PredFan (Dec 30, 2016)

SAYIT said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



When you have run out of truth and have been beaten at every turn, you turn to insults as a last resort. Hey, it's easier than supporting a baseless idiotic conspiracy theory right?


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## Divine Wind (Dec 30, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> _..._Now let me be clear, I was never a conspiracy theorists....


Congrats!  Now you _are_ a conspiracy theorist.  

Conspiracy theorists won't accept it, but sane, logical people will understand this report: World Trade Center 7 Report Puts 9/11 Conspiracy Theory to Rest
*Conspiracy theorists have long claimed that explosives downed World Trade Center 7, north of the Twin Towers. The long-awaited report from the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) conclusively rebuts those claims. Fire alone brought down the building, the report concludes, pointing to thermal expansion of key structural members as the culprit. The report also raises concerns that other large buildings might be more vulnerable to fire-induced structural failure than previously thought.*


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## GHook93 (Dec 30, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously?
> ...



This theory has been throughly debunked on the history challenge! They showed exactly how the force of the planes hitting the towers loosened the infrastructure causing the towers to collapse.

Go back and put on your tinfoil hat troofer!


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## BuckToothMoron (Dec 30, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously?
> ...



He put as much thought in as the OP merits. Progressivefaktriot, put down the crack pipe, flush the heroine, spill the bong, and for gods sake stopping dropping the acid. We get it, you want to seem special. Well you have made it, you're now "special". Put on your helmet and go stand on the corner, the short bus will be by soon to take you to color with crayons with your special friends.


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## Dale Smith (Dec 30, 2016)

PredFan said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > LA RAM FAN said:
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Hell no.....I was talking about someone else. I like what you post....but I maintain and will go to my grave knowing that 9/11/01 was an inside job....no two ways about it.


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## Divine Wind (Dec 30, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Hell no.....I was talking about someone else. I like what you post....but *I maintain and will go to my grave* knowing that 9/11/01 was an inside job....no two ways about it.


Of course you will.


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## Dale Smith (Dec 30, 2016)

Divine.Wind said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Hell no.....I was talking about someone else. I like what you post....but *I maintain and will go to my grave* knowing that 9/11/01 was an inside job....no two ways about it.
> ...



Any time you want to debate me on 9/11/01? I am always up for it because I have been on both sides of the fence concerning this. I was a serious anti-truther and took great delight on busting on what I believed to be partisan left-wing slime that simply wanted to make political hay out of a tragic situation.......eleven years and a few thousand hours of reading and research has opened my eyes and I am fucking EMBARRASSED that I ever believed the bullshit that we were sold. I wish I could find every person that I attacked for trying to expose it and apologize.


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## Divine Wind (Dec 30, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Any time you want to debate me on 9/11/01? ....


What's to debate?  Your conspiracy that the gub'ment did it?  I've learned that it's useless to attempt rational discussion with irrational people.   

If it makes you feel special to be "in the know", that's fine.  If, however, you truly believe the US government supported mass murder of American citizens and your only reaction is to argue with people on a free political forum, then I think you're as big a traitor as those you accuse.


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## SAYIT (Dec 30, 2016)

Divine.Wind said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > _..._Now let me be clear, I was never a conspiracy theorists....
> ...



And indeed CTs must suspend their disbelief - their skepticism - when embracing any of the foil-hat 9/11 CTs. If they apply even a fraction of the skepticism they do to the NIST report, they would be forced to reject them.



GHook93 said:


> This theory has been thoroughly debunked on the history challenge! They showed exactly how the force of the planes hitting the towers loosened the infrastructure causing the towers to collapse.



Indeed, the Towers were felled by the impact of the passenger jets and the ensuing fires, and WTC7 by the 20 story gash caused by the falling Towers and the fires. WTC7 sagged visibly to one side during the course of the day and no building is built to withstand such strain.

There is plenty of evidence (that CTs must ignore or reject) for the NIST explanation and absolutely none for a controlled demo. None.

There is no evidence of demo rigging or explosives - not that wiring and explosives could have survived the hours of chaotic fires - and none for thermites or thermates (not that either could have cut vertical steel beams).

In short, to believe 9/11 was a controlled demo CTs must suspend all reason and rationale (assuming they had either to begin with).

ProgPat is playing the "oh, I'm just asking questions" game, and RamFan and Smith are full-blown nut-jobs. I don't know if they got that way because of their hateful beliefs or they became hateful nutters because the truth just doesn't fit their "Jews did it" beliefs.


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## Dale Smith (Dec 30, 2016)

Divine.Wind said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Any time you want to debate me on 9/11/01? ....
> ...



You have the government that you believe represents you and then you have the shadow government i.e "The Deep State", the C.O.G that is not held responsible for their actions nor is there any oversight. When you look at what the think tank group PNAC wanted and the goals of the CFR and how it would take another Pearl Harbor like event just a year and change before 9/11/01? It should be obvious...then you follow the money and see which group stood to gain the most. What I found is that gold stolen from the Philippines during WWII under "Operation Golden Lily" became the Black Eagle Trust that was used in part by the Bush cabal to buy up oil and natural gas futures by piggybacking off of the work of Leo Wanta and his currency swaps that took down the ruble in 1991 that would expire in ten years unless they cashed it in.....the only problem was that in order to validate and verify the veracity of them would require that they  pass the sniff test of the SEC....240 billion dollars worth of securities taken from a country that had been raped, pillaged and plundered would raise a lot of questions...like who bought them and where did they get the money to buy them? It would have taken a long time to authenticate them and many global elites were already under investigation for insider trading, rigging the gold and silver markets, etc, etc. Cantor-Fitzgerald was used by the SEC to authenticate bonds and they were also cooperating with the SEC about insider trading. Oddly enough, the floor that Cantor Fitzgerald was on was hit by the first plane. There is a lot to this and much I have already covered here before but always follow the money. Germany was also asking to see the gold that they had stored at The Fed and wished to repatriate it to their own country but that changed on 9/11. There is still 100 billion dollars in gold that disappeared a like a fart in the wind on that day......mystery, no? We know that one truck with at least 100 million dollars worth of gold bullion which was abandoned was found....which was probably just the last in line of the convoy that were taking the gold out of the vaults.

Then we have the PATRIOT ACT that was written in advance along with the apparatus to spy on the on-line activity of each and every American and make us fine with it. The war in Iraq that enriched the military industrial complex.....the war in Afghanistan which got the poppy fields growing again after the taliban burned them as a payback for getting screwed on an oil pipeline that was to run to the Caspian Sea. The very terrorists that was being funded by USA.INC was causing terrorist attacks under the guise of an "insurgency" that would blow up a newly constructed hospital or school and via our tax dollars would just rebuild it at a premium cost while KBR and Haliburton made out like bandits....good work if you can get it.....


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## SAYIT (Dec 30, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



 There are literally dozens of threads here - I've linked a few below - in which you CTs are "debated," and your theories fully vetted and debunked. No rational poster is going to play your silly game.

The threads have a number of commonalities, not the least of which is the CT's penchant for ignoring or dismissing facts and truths that conflict with their pre-conceived belief systems. The same posters who promote these theories also consider Sandy Hook and the Boston Bombings to have been hoaxes or false flags and the moon landing to have been staged.

Oh, and many if not most, are certain (and "will go to their graves") believing that no matter the subject, the Jews did it!

 Nutters all and that's why they are confined to this CT Board.

Bush allowed 9/11 to happen and showed the world how stupid America is

After 15 years of delusional stupidity flights 11 and 175 were still absent from NY

9/11: What really happened on that day?

9/11: The Pentaplane Flyover Theory

911 Pentagon - 757 or cruise missile???

Why Do So Many Still Trust Government/Corporate Media?: BBC Reports WTC 7 Collapse Early...

I'm right about World Trade Centers and have an idea how they fell

World Trade Center probably could not have been destroyed by planes

9/11 Conspiracy

911 WTC Demolition! The Final Nail in the Debunker/Posers Coffin!

WTC building 7

911 WTC 7 Silent Thermate Demolition, Debunkers Grab Your Ankles!

WTC7's "Free Fall"

what happened on  9/11/2001?

About the "collapse" of WTC7


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## Divine Wind (Dec 30, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...


It's a Conspiracy!!!!!  LOL

Okay, so back to why you "know" all of this but refuse to fight these traitors.   Is it because you are yellow?  Bound to a wheelchair?  If you truly believe our own government did all of these things, why are you not doing anything about it?


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## Dale Smith (Dec 30, 2016)

Divine.Wind said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...




Do you believe that Oswald acted alone? If this shadow government could take out a sitting president and cover up it using intimidation and murder of those that could dispute the official story 38 years before 9/11/01....do you really believe the Deep State couldn't pull this off in the ultimate psy-op and theft? If you don't see the big picture now, you will soon.....you can bank on that one..

As far as me being "yellow"? Due to my beinjg outspoken, my threat matrix score assigned to me by the NSA is off the charts and I am definitely on the "red list" of dissidents but it doesn't stop me from trying to wake people up. Knowledge is power...were I to take a gun into a federal building and start randomly shooting people...what would that solve? Most people in government are just doing their job and the Deep state would use the incident (which wouldn't accomplish anything) would use it to clamp down on us even more with more draconian acts, statutes, codes and ordinances to get the people to comply and submit.....nope, I believe in the ripple affect like tossing a pebble into a pond....eventually the ripple reaches both shores regardless of how subtle it might be.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 30, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



WHY do you like what this troll posts,he is the same as rightwinger and say it,a government shill.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 30, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



I pretty much dont have to guess anymore what you would have done five years ago when i used to discuss this subject hours on end had i asked you back then-wait a minute,you just said you can accept it that the CIA killed JFK cause he wanted to pull us out of vietnam,they are still lying to us about that yet you cant accept it they were behind 9/11 and lied to us on that as well for the same reason to get us into war so the corporations can profit.?

see i KNOW what you would have done,the same thing that other guy did recently who still thinks the way you USED to when like you,I asked him that question,you would have the same thing he did recently.this- and never came back to the thread knowing you were stumped.we BOTH know thats what you would have done back then just like they ALL do.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 30, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



If he does,then he is clearly a paid shill same as rightwinger,sayit and predfan.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 30, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...





Logic and common sense never registers with the Bush dupes,you are making wayyyyyy too much sense for his brain to comprehend that it will explode any second now. I dont what he thinks on JFK but if he is a magic bullet worshipper,then there is obviously no  hope for him and another one to just put on ignore.


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## Dale Smith (Dec 30, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
> ...



I like Pred-Fan.....he's never been contrary to me....he simply doesn't "get it" that 9/11 was a false flag event...eventually he will come to the realization one way or the other and it will happen sooner rather than later. I believe some really bad shit is on the horizon and I don't like the looks of things at all. I don't know if Trump is legit or not but if he is? It's going to take the white hats in all the alphabet agencies to take on the shadow government. We are in a very bad situation right now that is so horrifically teetering on complete collapse (all orchestrated) that 95 percent of the people here couldn'
t even wrap their minds around......it ain't good at all......


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## Dale Smith (Dec 30, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...





You are very kind, my friend....I have a huge amount of respect and admiration for you and how outspoken you are. I would go into battle feeling pretty damn good knowing that you had my back...because you know damn well I would have yours....


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 30, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



 You're dreaming on that one dude the fact he STILL thinks oswald was the lone assassin and believes in magic bullets.

that is WHY there is no hope for him and WHY there was always hope for you a few years ago since you at LEAST could accept it the CIA killed JFK.


You obviously have not discussed the JFK case with him  because a few years ago when there was a thread on that made here I posted pesky facts he could not get around that proved beyond a doubt oswald was innocent and there was a conspiracy to kill JFK.

He never came back on that thread to refute them after that. i sent a pm to him telling him I was waiting for his reply for him  to address it and I think you are already aware of this,that he replied back to me back and started cursing me out in frustration that I owned him  and took him to school and he was angry about me proving him wrong so much that ever since then he has had me on ignore.

see you just have not discussed the JFK assassination with him any or shown evidence to him as i did that oswald was innocent and there were multiple shooters OTHERWISE he would have done the same thing with you years ago and put you on ignore as well in frustration of being proven wrong.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 30, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



well that was why i just got done saying you should not even bother with predfan,if the guy is still so much in denial on how corrupt our government is and blatantly ignores evidence and facts you present to him that there is no evidence whatsoever that oswald did it but there is plenty of facts and evidence that prove there was a  conspiracy,if he trolls on that subject ignoring how is proven wrong time and time again on that,The there is obviously no hope for him on 9/11 then. thats logic and common sense dude.


as i just said,try and have a discussion with him sometime and show videos that prove there was a conspiracy and post facts that prove he was innocent,you'll find out the same thing that he will not bother to watch the videos or look at the evidence and facts and just put you on ignore in frustration because he is so much in denial mode that this is a banana republic wanting to believe this is a free country,that common sense tells you,if he wont even look at the evidence on JFK,then WHY would he ever take the time to  look at the evidence on 9/11? 

trolls like him who are so much in denial that they only see what they WANT to see when it comes to the JFK assassination,WHY would they bother to look at the evidence on 9/11? i dont know,but a troll like that who puts you on ignore cause he knows he cant counter the facts you presented that prove him wrong  on JFK,.logic tells me you might as well be talking to a brick wall trying to get him to listen to you on 9/11 am I right or am I right?.


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## Dale Smith (Dec 30, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > LA RAM FAN said:
> ...



Ok, I get that but I still think that he has the capacity to "get it...so I am going to make PredFan this offer.....


PredFan...watch this documentary and if afterwards you are not moved or swayed? Let me know....I will send you a fifty dollar gift certificate to any restaurant chain of your choice to compensate you for your time....I will ask you a few simple questions that you would be able to answer if you watched it....just to keep you honest...but I think enough of you to make this offer.. 

I was introduced to this by a friend that said I would really get something out of it....as soon as I saw that it was 3 and a half hours long? I gave a heavy sigh...but it was given to me by a friend I respected and I made a promise to watch it from beginning to end....but once I started watching it I got so engrossed in it because it is so brilliantly done that I didn't even realize the time. I have watched or listened to it at least 15 times. It's gut wrenching to me and I still get watery eyes when I am taken through the events of that day and what was lost and the coup de'etat that took place that day and the power structure that remains....makes me unbelievably sad for what was lost but it also pisses me off and lights a fire inside me and the only way I will ever stop trying to wake people up is when they haul me away in a body bag...I owe those that did the heavy lifting in order to educate me no less.....I am just paying forward.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 30, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



you will be waiting YEARS on end of him to watch that video,trust me.


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## Dale Smith (Dec 30, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > LA RAM FAN said:
> ...




I gotta try, my friend........gotta try. You wouldn't believe how many people have watched it because I passed it onto them and they in turn turned it onto their friends. I have to try....it's all I have to offer.


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Dec 30, 2016)

BuckToothMoron said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > fncceo said:
> ...


Scram you pain in the ass. You might have noticed that there  is actually  a serious and intelligent discussion going on here with some  well  informed  people. Sorry that you are not smart enough to participate and think that you have to drag it down to your level of stupidity.


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## Dale Smith (Dec 30, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...




LMAO! Nicely done!....that's gonna leave a mark!


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## BuckToothMoron (Dec 30, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...



Serious discussion? Ok, and I suppose this is a serious poker game-


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 30, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



well you might FIRST consider trying to get him to stop being afraid to look at videos that prove oswald innocent and there were multiple shooters before getting any hopes up he will watch that first.lol


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 30, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...



that pic in his avatar is OBVIOUSLY a pic of him because you can see that guy is so much a retard and just look at all his retarded posts in rebuttals.

Trolls like him they think that because it SOUNDS so absurd that the government did it,they wont bother to look at your OP or watch those three videos of mine or take my challenge to read that book that has never been debunked either.they do this everytime you ask them to take you up on that challenge- these chickenshit cowards cant stand toe to toe in a debate.


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Dec 30, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > BuckToothMoron said:
> ...



Thanks but I don't think that it will feel a thing. Brain dead you know


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## PredFan (Dec 30, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



But why not pick something more sensible? Why not say that the shadow government financed, planned, and trained OBL and the hijackers to slam into the buildings?


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## PredFan (Dec 30, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



Sorry, can't watch it, I can't spend 3.5 hours watching something like that. Tell me, does it explain how a demolition crew can rig two buildings to drop without anyone ever seeing them do it?


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## BuckToothMoron (Dec 30, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > BuckToothMoron said:
> ...



And I see we have another passenger stepping onto the short bus. Strap up your helmet special buddy, the ride might get bumpy.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 30, 2016)

someone farted in here.


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## BuckToothMoron (Dec 30, 2016)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> _Note: I am aware of the fact that there are several other open treads on 9-11 However, they have long been dormant since shortly after they was started earlier this year. In addition, none of them feature the film that I recently discovered. This is different. This is compelling and worth a look!_
> 
> *This is an amazing, and eye opening film that may well change everything that you thought you knew or that you believed about what happened on  9.11.01.*
> 
> ...



Here you go- a real study done by real people and peer reviewed. Read this and then you can spend your time on something more worthwhile.....like looking for Big Foot.

http://www.jod911.com/drg_nist_review_2_1.pdf

In this paper, we examine the claims of Dr. David Ray Griffin regarding the NIST investigation into the World Trade Center disasters, and find those claims to be unfounded. All 18 major claims are discussed and rigorously dismissed, and a further analysis of the text reveals an overwhelming density of factual and logical errors. This paper refutes Dr. Griffin’s major claims, supporting with evidence that the aircraft impacts were expected to significantly damage the structures, that the resulting fires were of both sufficient temperature and duration to cause structural collapse, that a progressive collapse resulting in total destruction of the Towers was the likely result, and that the “controlled demolition” hypothesis is speculative and unsupported by any evidence. We also discuss the anticipated NIST report on World Trade Center Seven. The author highlights the fundamental sources of errors present in Dr. Griffin’s research and provides a template to evaluate future claims using resources available in open literature.


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## Divine Wind (Dec 30, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Do you believe that Oswald acted alone? If this shadow government could take out a sitting president and cover up it using intimidation and murder of those that could dispute the official story 38 years before 9/11/01........


Nice apples to oranges question.

Yes, I have questions about the Kennedy assassination, but I strongly doubt our own government was involved, much less so successfully hid it for 53 years that only nutjobs think they did.

Again, if you truly believed our own government was a traitor to our Constitution, why are you so spineless to no do something about it?


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## Divine Wind (Dec 30, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> If he does,then he is clearly a paid shill same as rightwinger,sayit and predfan.


Tough talk from the safety of your keyboard.  If you truly believe our government was a traitor to "We, the People", why are you such a spineless coward that all you do is whine about it?  Why aren't you taking action?  Doing something to stop them and restore the Constitution as our Founders intended?


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 31, 2016)

BuckToothMoron said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > _Note: I am aware of the fact that there are several other open treads on 9-11 However, they have long been dormant since shortly after they was started earlier this year. In addition, none of them feature the film that I recently discovered. This is different. This is compelling and worth a look!_
> ...




a NASA employee,what credibility



someone on our corrupt government institutions payroll. must be true.

oh and the fact the government paid shill agent sayit liked your post was the final nail in the coffin on it that your link is BS.

If you want people to take you seriously around here,word of advise,not only stop posting debwunker links of proven lies,but you should as well ask the government shill sayit to not like your posts as well. HIM liking a post of yours,just HURTS  your cause rather than helps it.

that doesnt debunk jack shit,miserable fail as always from you troll.


go back to your other retarded look alikes as you look in that pic there in your avatar.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 31, 2016)

BuckToothMoron said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > _Note: I am aware of the fact that there are several other open treads on 9-11 However, they have long been dormant since shortly after they was started earlier this year. In addition, none of them feature the film that I recently discovered. This is different. This is compelling and worth a look!_
> ...


all that guy did is debunk HIMSELF and prove what a fucking idiot  liar he is same as you.


by posting that old BS propaganda,I wont mind lending you a shovel here so you can start digging.

same old tune,tiresome debunked lies that have been debunked time and time again too many times to remember.


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## Dale Smith (Dec 31, 2016)

Divine.Wind said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Do you believe that Oswald acted alone? If this shadow government could take out a sitting president and cover up it using intimidation and murder of those that could dispute the official story 38 years before 9/11/01........
> ...


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## BuckToothMoron (Dec 31, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...



In other words, it was it too long and complicated for you to read.


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## BuckToothMoron (Dec 31, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...


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## Divine Wind (Dec 31, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> ....someone on our corrupt government institutions payroll. must be true..........


LOL.  Figured you for one of those that hates our men and women serving in uniform.

No doubt you're another of those that hates everyone in government and the government of the USA, yet the only thing you do about it is type one-handed on internet forums.


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## Divine Wind (Dec 31, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> You mean by pointing out it? Or is that enough? Or do you propose that I arm myself and storm the White House like Don Quixote? Work with me here.......


That's the limit of your intellect?  Either you do nothing or you become a one-man army storming the WH?  LOL.  Okay.  Just checking.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 31, 2016)

THREE FARTS IN A ROW FROM THE TROLLS


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## Dale Smith (Dec 31, 2016)

Divine.Wind said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > You mean by pointing out it? Or is that enough? Or do you propose that I arm myself and storm the White House like Don Quixote? Work with me here.......
> ...





Alerting people and writing about it is doing nothing? I beg to differ...look at how I gave you some information that you didn't know before.........it's the ripple effect. You are now wiser for having engaged in a conversation with me...what you choose to do with this new found knowledge is on you.  (snick)


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 31, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...


 
Well i dont know,9/11 is just like the JFK assassination,done and over with and the real killers getting away with it. at this point posters need to stop making threads exposing it,people can accept it or live in denial,we need solutions what to do about it.

as i have said before,9/1 is the least of our problems we have to worry about from the government now.


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## Dale Smith (Dec 31, 2016)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...




I totally agree with that....the debate was settled for me five years ago that we have a serious fucking problem of monumental proportions and while we were distracted by shit that didn't matter, we are were taken over and consumed in debt from credit extended by nothing tangible or with an intrinsic value....then they started shipping the jobs overseas and if you were one of those unfortunate slobs that had paid twenty years on a thirty year note created from fake money you created with your signature on a Promissory note? The banks got a hard asset and twenty years of your sweat equity and like a game of musical chairs, they start the process all over again. People work harder for less just to try and eek out an existence while the .0001 percent accumulate more and more wealth. I am not advocating socialism but there is a balance that could easily be reached if we could rid ourselves of these parasitic bankers.


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## Divine Wind (Dec 31, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Alerting people and writing about it is doing nothing? I beg to differ...look at how I gave you some information that you didn't know before.........it's the ripple effect. You are now wiser for having engaged in a conversation with me...what you choose to do with this new found knowledge is on you.  (snick)


Alerting 20+ people on an internet forum is what you consider activism against a traitorous government?  LOL  I'm sure Patrick Henry is spinning in his grave right now.

Dude, if you feel you're going to take down the evil, traitorous government that murdered 3,000 Americans on 9/11 by "alerting people", then I'm not impressed with your resolve.


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## Dale Smith (Dec 31, 2016)

Divine.Wind said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Alerting people and writing about it is doing nothing? I beg to differ...look at how I gave you some information that you didn't know before.........it's the ripple effect. You are now wiser for having engaged in a conversation with me...what you choose to do with this new found knowledge is on you.  (snick)
> ...




You think this is the only place I blog on? I have nearly 600 followers on FB that share what I write on their pages and then people share what was shared to their pages.....see? It's the ripple effect. I have written thousands of posts on other blog-sites in an attempt to wake people up to this debt slavery system and age old Babylonian system of "pledging" one's labor in exchange for a fiat currency only redeemable at what amounts to is the "company store". What do you do to try and wake people up besides lamely attempt to criticize others that do give a shit????

Debate me.....challenge me. Lead, stand beside me or get the fuck out of the way....makes no difference to me.


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## Divine Wind (Dec 31, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> You think this is the only place I blog on? I have nearly 600 followers on FB that share what I write on their pages and then people share what was shared to their pages.....see? It's the ripple effect. I have written thousands of posts on other blog-sites in an attempt to wake people up to this debt slavery system and age old Babylonian system of "pledging" one's labor in exchange for a fiat currency only redeemable at what amounts to is the "company store". What do you do to try and wake people up besides lamely attempt to criticize others that do give a shit????
> 
> Debate me.....challenge me. Lead, stand beside me or get the fuck out of the way....makes no difference to me.


LOL.  As I expected.  Dude, if the gub'mint was as evil as you claim they are, you'd be dead of a heroin overdose, a heart attack or some other tragic "accident".  The reality?  Nobody gives a shit.  Guess why?


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## Dale Smith (Dec 31, 2016)

Divine.Wind said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > You think this is the only place I blog on? I have nearly 600 followers on FB that share what I write on their pages and then people share what was shared to their pages.....see? It's the ripple effect. I have written thousands of posts on other blog-sites in an attempt to wake people up to this debt slavery system and age old Babylonian system of "pledging" one's labor in exchange for a fiat currency only redeemable at what amounts to is the "company store". What do you do to try and wake people up besides lamely attempt to criticize others that do give a shit????
> ...



Nah, I'm small time....they wouldn't waste their time on me when there are bigger truth-telling fish to fry....maybe some day. It's definitely something to shoot for.

(snicker)


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## Divine Wind (Dec 31, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...


1) Agreed 100%. You're small time.  (snicker)

2) The evil empire you believe exists doesn't.  It's all in your head.


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## Dale Smith (Dec 31, 2016)

Divine.Wind said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...




You certainly have made a compelling argument as to why you believe I am wrong....said no one ever.

(snicker)


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## Divine Wind (Jan 1, 2017)

Dale Smith said:


> You certainly have made a compelling argument as to why you believe I am wrong....*said no one ever.*
> 
> (snicker)


Only bullies, idiots and those with low self-esteem keep pointing at a mentally challenged person and yelling "Retard!  Retard!"


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## Dale Smith (Jan 2, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > You certainly have made a compelling argument as to why you believe I am wrong....*said no one ever.*
> ...




In other words, you have nothing to debate over....duly noted.


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## Divine Wind (Jan 2, 2017)

Dale Smith said:


> In other words, you have nothing to debate over....duly noted.


Now claim you're going to put me on ignore....again.


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## Dale Smith (Jan 2, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > In other words, you have nothing to debate over....duly noted.
> ...




I have never put you on "ignore"...I simply stated that you had nothing to come back at me with. There may be things that you may know better than me. I am certainly not contending that I know everything but I do know a great deal because I have worked hard to know the things I do. What I don't care for is people that are not well versed on a topic trying to tell me it isn't true simply because they don't "believe it" or that it "can't be possible" because it conflicts with what they have been programmed to believe.

I know this because I was once there myself........


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## Eaglewings (Jan 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Breaking News.......
> 
> Inside job......Inside job



Something had to shake us deep into the core of America to bring us into war... There were profits to be made.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jan 3, 2017)

Dale Smith said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



yep we took that moron troll to school with griffins book and in desperation mode when he knows he is licked,he posts a DEBWUNKER link where all BOTH that poster AND that writer of that link  did was debunk THEMSELVES and show he is a fucking liar same as him.thats old debunked  stuff that doesnt counter a SINGLE THING in his book,like i said,he only debunked HIMSELF showing he is a government shill working for them. that link did not debunk a fucking thing like he lives in a fantasy wanting to believe..


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## LA RAM FAN (Jan 3, 2017)

PredFan said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > LA RAM FAN said:
> ...



Did I tell you Dale or did I tell you? I told you this troll predfan wont watch that video.,He is so much in denial he wont even take the time to watch a SHORT video that proves oswald was innocent and there were multiple shooters so I could have told you he would never watch this long video.Like that coward Buck,he only sees what he WANTS to see.

the ONLY reason predfan did not put you on ignore just now is because you did not send him a pm telling him you were waiting for him to address the facts in the video,had you done THAT,i guarantee you he WOULD have put you on ignore.


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## Dale Smith (Jan 3, 2017)

LA RAM FAN said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...




Why do people like to wallow in ignorance? Isn't knowledge a source of power????


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## psikeyhackr (Jan 4, 2017)

PredFan said:


> And here's my answer to you. As layers collapse the weight of materials of each floor add up. If you will recall, the planes didn't hit the top floors. The first collapse was a combination of many floors. Plenty of weight to collapse the remaining floors in succession as the weight quickly climbs with each pancaked layer.



And where does the energy come from to crush each level?  What is the kinetic energy of the falling mass?

If what you say is true then it should not be difficult to model.  Here is a model:


The falling mass looses kinetic energy faster than the mass increases so eventually it no longer has enough energy to crush more levels and so it arrests.

But in FIFTEEN YEARS no engineering school has built a model to demonstrate what you say.  Curious that!

psik


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## LA RAM FAN (Jan 4, 2017)

psikeyhackr said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > And here's my answer to you. As layers collapse the weight of materials of each floor add up. If you will recall, the planes didn't hit the top floors. The first collapse was a combination of many floors. Plenty of weight to collapse the remaining floors in succession as the weight quickly climbs with each pancaked layer.
> ...



He is hopeless,he wont even take you up on a challenge to watch a SHORT video that proves beyond a doubt oswald was innocent and there were multiple shooters.he is in denial obviously we live in a banana republic.


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## PredFan (Jan 5, 2017)

psikeyhackr said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > And here's my answer to you. As layers collapse the weight of materials of each floor add up. If you will recall, the planes didn't hit the top floors. The first collapse was a combination of many floors. Plenty of weight to collapse the remaining floors in succession as the weight quickly climbs with each pancaked layer.
> ...



Where's the energy? Really? It's called gravity.

Engineering schools won't waste time building models that cannot possibly recreate the event because they are smart enough to know what is true and what isn't.


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## psikeyhackr (Jan 5, 2017)

PredFan said:


> Where's the energy? Really? It's called gravity.
> 
> Engineering schools won't waste time building models that cannot possibly recreate the event because they are smart enough to know what is true and what isn't.



Gravity is not Energy.  It is only force.  The force has to be applied over a distance to be Work, or Energy.

But where has anyone specified the amount of Energy to crush a Level of the WTC?

Our Scientists and Engineers have sent their Curiosity to Mars.  Curious that!

psik


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## PredFan (Jan 5, 2017)

psikeyhackr said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > Where's the energy? Really? It's called gravity.
> ...



Dude, all it needed was gravity to fall. You can call it energy, or whatever you want to, it still fell because of gravity.

Weight crushed the levels of the WTC.

Curiosity us one thing, knowledge is another. They have the knowledge to know who to believe about what happened and they don't believe the Truthers.


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## SAYIT (Jan 5, 2017)

psikeyhackr said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > Where's the energy? Really? It's called gravity...
> ...



You may be quibbling about semantics.

While the NIST does indeed reject the pancake theory of collapse, they do say - as many of us witnessed - "that the towers could not resist the tremendous energy released by the downward movement of the massive top section of the building at and above the fire and impact floors." That "downward movement" was aided and abetted by gravity.

That may not technically be a pancake collapse but the result was the same. The floors below the point at which the towers were impacted were weakened by fire and crushed by the floors above (about 17 stories for the north tower and 30 stories for the south tower).

Note that both buildings burned for some time before collapsing. Do you propose that unseen demo-rigging survived those chaotic fires?

FAQs - NIST WTC Towers Investigation
*8. Why didn't NIST consider a "controlled demolition" hypothesis with matching computer modeling and explanation like it did for the "pancake theory" hypothesis?*

NIST conducted an extremely thorough three-year investigation that included consideration of a number of hypotheses for the collapses of the WTC towers.

Some 200 technical experts—including about 85 career NIST experts and 125 leading experts from the private sector and academia—reviewed tens of thousands of documents, interviewed more than 1,000 people, reviewed 7,000 segments of video footage and 7,000 photographs, analyzed 236 pieces of steel from the wreckage, performed laboratory tests, and created sophisticated computer simulations of the sequence of events that occurred from the moment the aircraft struck the towers until they began to collapse.


NIST's findings do not support the "pancake theory" of collapse, which is premised on a progressive failure of the floor systems in the WTC towers (the composite floor system—that connected the core columns and the perimeter columns—consisted of a grid of steel "trusses" integrated with a concrete slab; see diagram). Instead, the NIST investigation showed conclusively that the failure of the inwardly bowed perimeter columns initiated collapse and that the occurrence of this inward bowing required the sagging floors to remain connected to the columns and pull the columns inwards. Thus, the floors did not fail progressively to cause a pancaking phenomenon.


NIST's findings also do not support the "controlled demolition" theory since there is conclusive evidence that:


the collapse was initiated in the impact and fire floors of the WTC towers and nowhere else, and;
the time it took for the collapse to initiate (56 minutes for WTC 2 and 102 minutes for WTC 1) was dictated by (1) the extent of damage caused by the aircraft impact, and (2) the time it took for the fires to reach critical locations and weaken the structure to the point that the towers could not resist the tremendous energy released by the downward movement of the massive top section of the building at and above the fire and impact floors.
Video evidence also showed unambiguously that the collapse progressed from the top to the bottom, and there was no evidence (collected by NIST or by the New York City Police Department, the Port Authority Police Department, or the Fire Department of New York) of any blast or explosions in the region below the impact and fire floors as the top building sections (including and above the 98th floor in WTC 1 and the 82nd floor in WTC 2) began their downward movement upon collapse initiation.

In summary, NIST found no corroborating evidence for alternative hypotheses suggesting that the WTC towers were brought down by controlled demolition using explosives. NIST also did not find any evidence that missiles were fired at or hit the towers. Instead, photographs and videos from several angles clearly show that the collapse initiated at the fire and impact floors and that the collapse progressed from the initiating floors downward until the dust clouds obscured the view.


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## MisterBeale (Jan 6, 2017)




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## PredFan (Jan 6, 2017)

The jet fuel doesn't have to actually melt the steel beams. It only has to heat them up high enough to weaken them. As a welder in the US Navy, I can tell you that I have heated steel high enough that I can bend it to the shape I want to by hand.


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## westwall (Jan 21, 2017)

Here is the building collapsing in Tehran.  Please pay attention to the pressure blowing the windows out in the lower floors as the internal structure collapses.  This is called PHYSICS.  No cleverly disguised bombs, no secret conspiracy's, just gravity winning this latest battle with mans creations.



Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


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## Wyatt earp (Feb 11, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




You stupid a bomber hit the Empire State building


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## Wyatt earp (Feb 11, 2017)

PredFan said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
> ...




Do you see the jet fuel still burning?. Oh check it out its cold enough for a woman to walk around


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## Wyatt earp (Feb 11, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




And a woman walking around minutes later


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## westwall (Feb 11, 2017)

psikeyhackr said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > Where's the energy? Really? It's called gravity.
> ...








It's not?  Step off of a tall building and let us know how that non energy affects you.


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## Wyatt earp (Feb 11, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




Why didn't the core stay up? That theory is wrong


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## Wyatt earp (Feb 11, 2017)

This was always interesting..


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## Wyatt earp (Feb 11, 2017)

bear513 said:


> This was always interesting..


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## PredFan (Feb 11, 2017)

bear513 said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



And what do you think that proves?


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## PredFan (Feb 11, 2017)

westwall said:


> psikeyhackr said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
> ...



Apparently he's never heard of kinetic energy.


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## Wyatt earp (Feb 11, 2017)

PredFan said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
> ...




It proves your no welder....as you claim.. How the fuck could she walk in there if it was so hot it was bending steel?


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## westwall (Feb 12, 2017)

bear513 said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...








The fuel cascaded to a lower level and that is where the heat built up to weaken the steel beams.  There were localized fires on the floors that were hit, but the hundreds of thousands of pounds of fuel didn't stay on those floors.  It pooled at a lower level and burned.  The heat got high enough to turn the steel beams orange hot, not enough to melt them, but just getting them that hot dropped their strength by at least 25%, and that was all that was needed based on the design of the building.


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## Wyatt earp (Feb 12, 2017)

westwall said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
> ...





WTC2

Molten metal.. It's also in that video above from the firemen


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## westwall (Feb 12, 2017)

bear513 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...








Yes, that's one of the localized fires I mentioned.  The jet fuel fire was a inferno far more powerful than that.


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## Wyatt earp (Feb 12, 2017)

Like I have said sick in bed and bored... But when you look at all four plane crashes , 15 years later... Something is fishy even the NIST don't believe it's theory anymore on the collapse of one and two. 

So if something was up,  just why did they want the U. S. A.  to go to the middle east and fuck it up (Bill Clinton would of had to be in on it) who did they have to kill so bad in Iraq?

I keep thinking about Nostradamus and the man in blue ...would of came from Iraq.  

Seriously they believed in that so much to attack their own country? 


.


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## gipper (Feb 12, 2017)

bear513 said:


> Like I have said sick in bed and bored... But when you look at all four plane crashes , 15 years later... Something is fishy even the NIST don't believe it's theory anymore on the collapse of one and two.
> 
> So if something was up,  just why did they want the U. S. A.  to go to the middle east and fuck it up (Bill Clinton would of had to be in on it) who did they have to kill so bad in Iraq?
> 
> ...


I think it is rather simple.  The reason our government allowed 9/11 to happen is the Cold War was over and the US government needed an enemy to keep it going.  

Nothing grows and concentrates government more than war.  War justifies a huge military industrial complex and gives amazing power to criminal politicians.  It also results in tyranny at home, as average citizens lose their liberty and freedom.


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## PredFan (Feb 12, 2017)

bear513 said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...



First of all, it doesn't prove I'm not a welder, that's just stupid. Secondly it was plenty hot there that's likely why she was on the edge of the building. That photo proves nothing at all. If the buildings did not go down the way the NIST said, how did they come down then?


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 12, 2017)

gipper said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > Like I have said sick in bed and bored... But when you look at all four plane crashes , 15 years later... Something is fishy even the NIST don't believe it's theory anymore on the collapse of one and two.
> ...


you nailed it.  when you have some of NISTS's OWN members not believing it,then you know it doesnt hold any water.lol

Reminds me of  the same thing with the warren commission where many of ITS members did not believe the magic bullet theory either that arlen spector concocted that oswald was the lone assassin only signing their names to the document because they were forced to if they wanted to keep their jobs.


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## MisterBeale (Feb 12, 2017)

gipper said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > Like I have said sick in bed and bored... But when you look at all four plane crashes , 15 years later... Something is fishy even the NIST don't believe it's theory anymore on the collapse of one and two.
> ...


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## MisterBeale (Feb 12, 2017)

PredFan said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
> ...


https://app.box.com/shared/9duecajohk
https://app.box.com/shared/h81kjfkvg9
https://app.box.com/shared/td6593g25y


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## MisterBeale (Feb 12, 2017)




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## Dale Smith (Feb 12, 2017)

bear513 said:


> Like I have said sick in bed and bored... But when you look at all four plane crashes , 15 years later... Something is fishy even the NIST don't believe it's theory anymore on the collapse of one and two.
> 
> So if something was up,  just why did they want the U. S. A.  to go to the middle east and fuck it up (Bill Clinton would of had to be in on it) who did they have to kill so bad in Iraq?
> 
> ...




Google "Operation Gladio" and Operation Gladio B"....Operation Northwoods. False flags have been used all through out history. The first WTC bombing in 1993 was a false flag and the OKC bombing in 1995 was a false flag that enabled a scaled down version of the PATRIOT Act.........gotta keep the sheeple afraid and traumatized in order to keep them under their thumb. The majority of "mass shootings" have been staged and faked events with the Aurora movie theater shooting, Sandy Hook, the Charleston church shooting, the Virginia TV reporter shooting, Orlando....100 percent staged. You could drive a friggin brigade of tanks through the holes in what we were told. I am astounded and even insulted at how sloppy these events have been presented to us...they have no respect for us at all.


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## MisterBeale (Feb 12, 2017)

I'm thinking Yemen and Iran are next.  After being advised to look into something called Crosscheck voting and spoiled ballots, I think it is safe to say, lots more war is on the horizon.  The corporate press and the Democratic establishment know the truth, they just don't care, as long as the Deep State profits.







This is the only shred of hope I have left that Trump could at any moment change course.

We all know Trump knows the truth about 9/11, JFK, those training camps the CIA is using, etc.  We know he is aware of everything, he has indicated as much.

He's learned from history, so this gives him some sort of independence from the Deep State, should he decide to actually make a move for the people.  So far, no indications that he wants to though.

Trump Maintaining His Own Private Security Force, Even With Secret Service Protection


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## Dale Smith (Feb 12, 2017)

MisterBeale said:


> I'm thinking Yemen and Iran are next.  After being advised to look into something called Crosscheck voting and spoiled ballots, I think it is safe to say, lots more war is on the horizon.  The corporate press and the Democratic establishment know the truth, they just don't care, as long as the Deep State profits.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Gotta get those Rothschilds banks into every country.........


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## Dale Smith (Feb 12, 2017)

Ignore the title of this video and listen to the contents.......


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## psikeyhackr (Feb 13, 2017)

MisterBeale said:


>


Solving 9/11 would start a new war on American soil.


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## psikeyhackr (Feb 13, 2017)

westwall said:


> psikeyhackr said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
> ...



So you don't know about Force, Potential Energy, Work and Kinetic Energy.  Tough!

psik


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## westwall (Feb 13, 2017)

psikeyhackr said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > psikeyhackr said:
> ...








Oh yes.  I know all about them.  Gravity is indeed a Force.  However, it is a Force that must be fought against CONSTANTLY.  What do you suppose is used to fight against a Force?


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## psikeyhackr (Feb 13, 2017)

westwall said:


> Oh yes.  I know all about them.  Gravity is indeed a Force.  However, it is a Force that must be fought against CONSTANTLY.  What do you suppose is used to fight against a Force?



Another Force.

Therefore every level of one of the Twin Towers had to be capable of withstanding more Force all of the way down the building.

Therefore engineers not demanding and telling us the tons of steel and tons of concrete on every level is nonsense.

The NIST report does not even specify the total amount of concrete in the towers.  Search in yourself.

The distribution of mass changes the Potential Energy:

International Skeptics Forum - View Single Post -  Offer to the Truth Movement:  Let's Settle It

8 years and 9 months ago.

psik


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## westwall (Feb 13, 2017)

psikeyhackr said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Oh yes.  I know all about them.  Gravity is indeed a Force.  However, it is a Force that must be fought against CONSTANTLY.  What do you suppose is used to fight against a Force?
> ...








Yes.  Another Force.  And what happens when that Force loses even the slightest bit of it's strength?  A skyscraper is a balance of forces all fighting against gravity.  Reduce the effectiveness of one of them and the building collapses.  That's called physics.  I posted the link to the Iranian building collapsing.  It has the exact same lower floor expulsions as you point to as evidence for a explosive.  It's not, it's the internal structure collapsing and those are the results of that collapse.


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## psikeyhackr (Feb 13, 2017)

westwall said:


> Yes.  Another Force.  And what happens when that Force loses even the slightest bit of it's strength?  A skyscraper is a balance of forces all fighting against gravity.  Reduce the effectiveness of one of them and the building collapses.  That's called physics.  I posted the link to the Iranian building collapsing.  It has the exact same lower floor expulsions as you point to as evidence for a explosive.  It's not, it's the internal structure collapsing and those are the results of that collapse.



So where is your data on the distribution of mass of the Iranian building?

One Twin Tower was wider than that building was tall.  I can show you bigger fires in bigger buildings that did not collapse and you will say they prove nothing.


Get accurate data on the building we are actually concerned about and stop bothering with this analogy crap.

psik


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## westwall (Feb 14, 2017)

psikeyhackr said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Yes.  Another Force.  And what happens when that Force loses even the slightest bit of it's strength?  A skyscraper is a balance of forces all fighting against gravity.  Reduce the effectiveness of one of them and the building collapses.  That's called physics.  I posted the link to the Iranian building collapsing.  It has the exact same lower floor expulsions as you point to as evidence for a explosive.  It's not, it's the internal structure collapsing and those are the results of that collapse.
> ...








I don't need any.  You claim that the only way you can have those expulsions is from explosives.  The Tehran building collapsed because of well known decay that was ignored.  It exhibited the SAME type of expulsions.  Thus your claim is rendered false.  That's how science works.


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## percysunshine (Feb 14, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Let's do an experiment
> 
> Take a hundred story skyscraper and fly a jet airline into it and see if it causes the building to collapse
> 
> ...



Who is 'we'? ...chuckle


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## psikeyhackr (Feb 15, 2017)

westwall said:


> I don't need any.  *You claim that the only way you can have those expulsions is from explosives.*  The Tehran building collapsed because of well known decay that was ignored.  It exhibited the SAME type of expulsions.  Thus your claim is rendered false.  That's how science works.



When and where did I claim that?

psik


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## LA RAM FAN (Jul 20, 2020)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously?
> ...


The shill was doing what he was told to do by his handlers.


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## fncceo (Jul 20, 2020)

LA RAM FAN said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > fncceo said:
> ...



Only one person handles me...

... and I had to buy her a house to get her to do it.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jul 27, 2020)

Someone farted here after my last post.


----------

