# Do you shop at Walmart?



## Amelia (Nov 16, 2012)

Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.


Walmart's Internal Compensation Documents Reveal Systematic Limit On Advancement


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## Connery (Nov 16, 2012)

If the store had the lowest price on something that I wanted yes I would. For those who feel victimized by Walmart's practices I suggest they make themselves better equipped for the job market. Opportunities are plentiful for those who possess the best qualifications, market themselves well and have the wherewithal to commit to what the job market demands.


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## syrenn (Nov 16, 2012)

its non union.... first great reason to shop there. 


Yeah, when one comes along where i am going ill stop. The closest one is a good 40 miles away. National food brands are national food brands.... and you cant beat their prices.


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## Ernie S. (Nov 16, 2012)

I wouldn't shop at any store who's employees strike on Black Friday.

Sorry. I get that way whenever I have to waste my time at HuffPo.


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## AmyNation (Nov 16, 2012)

Yup, and I don't feel bad about it either


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 16, 2012)

My wife's friend (who is an AF Dependent Wife and Japanese) worked at a WalMart for a year or so when her husband was stationed at nearby Andrews AFB. They promoted her real quick and wanted to put her into Management but she turned it down.

She said working for WalMart was ok it's just the workers there are just too lazy and stupid (Well, she used Polite Japanese to describe them but that's basically what she said) . She said that she was called upon to finish up what the workers couldn't do (which was often) and apparently was fast tracked for management because of that. 

She was *real* happy to leave.

I try *not* to shop at WalMart so we go to Giant and Wegmans instead but we do occasionally stop in for one or two items on the way home from somewhere.

My impression of WalMart is that it's a filthy, Illegal Alien magnet. Whenever I'm in there I just wanna' get the f*ck out as soon as possible.


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## syrenn (Nov 16, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> My wife's friend (who is an AF Dependent Wife and Japanese) worked at a WalMart for a year or so when her husband was stationed at nearby Andrews AFB. They promoted her real quick and wanted to put her into Management but she turned it down.
> 
> She said working for WalMart was ok it's just the workers there are just too lazy and stupid (Well, she used Polite Japanese to describe them but that's basically what she said) . She said that she was called upon to finish up what the workers couldn't do (which was often) and apparently was fast tracked for management because of that.
> 
> ...




i guess it also depends on what walmart you go to. Ill agree...some of them are just nasty. Others are pretty darn normal....


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## skye (Nov 16, 2012)

Sometimes I do.


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## Noomi (Nov 16, 2012)

We don't have a Walmart, so of course I don't shop there. We will probably have one in a few years, though.


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## skye (Nov 16, 2012)

Noomi said:


> We don't have a Walmart, so of course I don't shop there. We will probably have one in a few years, though.




in Oz is K-Mart


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## Political Junky (Nov 16, 2012)

I shop Costco .. they're fair to their employees.


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## Connery (Nov 16, 2012)

Noomi said:


> We don't have a Walmart, so of course I don't shop there. We will probably have one in a few years, though.



Yes  you do every time I go to OZ I wear my Walmart clothes....


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## Kiki Cannoli (Nov 16, 2012)

I dont have a choice. It is the only store if its kind for hours.

And yes I could get most of what I need stopping and picking up along the way purchasing from mim and pop.  But when i need Tp, auto coolant, lipstick and light bulbs simultaneously...mr.sam gets my cashola.

Here people are happy to work.  No anti wal sentiments.  In fact during construction I asked around to get a feel if folks were concerned about the impact a big retailer would have on what is basically a local grocer market.  The response was intriguing. Consumers wete tired of the spontaneous price gauging practices which the corner stores seemed to align during long weekends and such.  Very little sympathy for the little guy was expressed.


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## Merchant_of_Meh (Nov 17, 2012)

Nope, but when I want inferior products, I surely know where to go.


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## iamwhatiseem (Nov 17, 2012)

I will let my signature do the talking...


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## Wry Catcher (Nov 17, 2012)

Connery said:


> If the store had the lowest price on something that I wanted yes I would. For those who feel victimized by Walmart's practices I suggest they make themselves better equipped for the job market. Opportunities are plentiful for those who possess the best qualifications, market themselves well and have the wherewithal to commit to what the job market demands.



Huh, in which reality do you reside?  Your self righteous indignation of the 47% is disgusting.


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## freedombecki (Nov 17, 2012)

Amelia said:


> Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> 
> Walmart's Internal Compensation Documents Reveal Systematic Limit On Advancement


I read  your article at Huffington Post, Amelia. They're redistribution agents, and in their article, they solicit former employees to write them (grievances only will be published). They're digging for dirt to destroy a business that employs two million worldwide and 1.4 million stateside.

All businesses are judged by their performance on the stock market to people who invest money in them to keep their doors open. If you frighten the investors enough, they will take their money out and invest in something even more profitable that is less noticable because of size.

The redistributors have raised prices on groceries and shrunk sizes to conceal most of the inflationary issues. It's in the 40 to 80% higher bracket. It's a cancer, a parasite. Huffington Post wants to just make it worse.

Can you imagine if that bitch destroys Walmart, she will be putting 1.4 million people on these shores out of work, and the jobs will just be put into countries like Kiki described "where people are just happy to have a job."

We'll be supporting 1.4 million more Americans, not to mention WalMart's trade partners losing a sure-thing sales outlet.

This is not good.


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## wavingrl (Nov 17, 2012)

yes--and  for economic reasons, I don't care what anyone thinks about  that.

Shopping seems to  be  my life.

Ace Hardware, Trader Joes, Kroger, Publix--so many places to shop in Atlanta.

Prefer small businesses--but big box  has a place  here, too.

Guess we 'don't care' that much--'get yours anyway you can' seems to be what most of us are doing?


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## R.D. (Nov 17, 2012)

Yes.  

With 5 to choose from locally it never gets dull


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## depotoo (Nov 17, 2012)

Walmart pays the same as Target, yet Walmart is always the big bad wolf.  Why is that?  And since Target's prices are almost always higher, why aren't they paying better wages overall?


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## Decus (Nov 17, 2012)

depotoo said:


> Walmart pays the same as Target, yet Walmart is always the big bad wolf.  Why is that?  And since Target's prices are almost always higher, why aren't they paying better wages overall?



I agree. Walmart is a smart option when the household budget requires watching every penny. Costco may pay their employees more but their service is just as bad as other big box retailers (worse in fact because you have to pay for membership).


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## Moonglow (Nov 17, 2012)

Connery said:


> If the store had the lowest price on something that I wanted yes I would. For those who feel victimized by Walmart's practices I suggest they make themselves better equipped for the job market. Opportunities are plentiful for those who possess the best qualifications, market themselves well and have the wherewithal to commit to what the job market demands.



What dream world do you live in? I'm 51 and have tried to get a job since the economy tanked in '08. Well educated, experienced, but yet never even get in for an interview after submitting enough resumes to wall paper a house.


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## Moonglow (Nov 17, 2012)

Decus said:


> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> > Walmart pays the same as Target, yet Walmart is always the big bad wolf.  Why is that?  And since Target's prices are almost always higher, why aren't they paying better wages overall?
> ...



Wal Mart is not that cheap. I go to a place for food that makes Wal-Mart high priced.


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## R.D. (Nov 17, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > If the store had the lowest price on something that I wanted yes I would. For those who feel victimized by Walmart's practices I suggest they make themselves better equipped for the job market. Opportunities are plentiful for those who possess the best qualifications, market themselves well and have the wherewithal to commit to what the job market demands.
> ...




  'splains a lot


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## Katzndogz (Nov 17, 2012)

It depends on where the Wal Mart is.   The customers who go to the one in North Redondo are disgusting, the Wal Mart in Torrance is very nice.   Knowing that Wal Mart is non union is enough to get me through the door.


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## Wry Catcher (Nov 17, 2012)

freedombecki said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> > Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> ...



Paranoia stikes deep
Into your heart it will creep
It starts when your always afraid
Step out of line, the men come and take you away


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## thanatos144 (Nov 17, 2012)

Of course I shop there and unlike the liberal progressives here I won't lie about it.


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## WillowTree (Nov 17, 2012)

depotoo said:


> Walmart pays the same as Target, yet Walmart is always the big bad wolf.  Why is that?  And since Target's prices are almost always higher, why aren't they paying better wages overall?



I shop Target. Their store is bigger, brighter, more organized and I like the merchandise..I shop Sam's club too for certain items such as K cups, toilet paper and paper towels. books. groceries I buy at Publix. I also do a lot of online shopping.


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## spectrumc01 (Nov 17, 2012)

Wow.  Wal mart is the number one killer of small business in America no matter what anyone says.  There is no way local small businsess can compete with Wal Marts low prices.  We got Wal Mart and within a year main street was 50% vacant. Chineese products killing American small business in the womb.  Yet they want us to think it's Obama care.  They say that small business needs all the breaks they can get, and the way that the US government backs big business over small business I can agree.  Large business, with their bought and paid for politicians, kill off  their competition through over regulation every day.  Talk about saving American small business than go shop at Wal Mart, it just doesn't sound right.  Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, our choices our being taken away.  No monopolies but how many cable tv options do you have?  ever tried to change electric companies?

Do I shop at Wal Mart? yes.
Do I like it? no.
Do I have an economical alternative? no.
When the oportunity arises to shop else where do I take it? absolutely.


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## depotoo (Nov 17, 2012)

spectrumc01 said:


> Wow.  Wal mart is the number one killer of small business in America no matter what anyone says.  There is no way local small businsess can compete with Wal Marts low prices.  We got Wal Mart and within a year main street was 50% vacant. Chineese products killing American small business in the womb.  Yet they want us to think it's Obama care.  They say that small business needs all the breaks they can get, and the way that the US government backs big business over small business I can agree.  Large business, with their bought and paid for politicians, kill off  their competition through over regulation every day.  Talk about saving American small business than go shop at Wal Mart, it just doesn't sound right.  Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, our choices our being taken away.  No monopolies but how many cable tv options do you have?  ever tried to change electric companies?
> 
> Do I shop at Wal Mart? yes.
> Do I like it? no.
> ...



why do you blame that on Walmart?  The one responsible is the consumer.  If they didn't need or want the lower prices, they wouldn't shop there making them obsolete.  If you honestly don't think that their lower prices help some families survive, or other families live better, you are absolutely wrong.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 17, 2012)

spectrumc01 said:


> Wow.  Wal mart is the number one killer of small business in America no matter what anyone says.  There is no way local small businsess can compete with Wal Marts low prices.  We got Wal Mart and within a year main street was 50% vacant. Chineese products killing American small business in the womb.  Yet they want us to think it's Obama care.  They say that small business needs all the breaks they can get, and the way that the US government backs big business over small business I can agree.  Large business, with their bought and paid for politicians, kill off  their competition through over regulation every day.  Talk about saving American small business than go shop at Wal Mart, it just doesn't sound right.  Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, our choices our being taken away.  No monopolies but how many cable tv options do you have?  ever tried to change electric companies?
> 
> Do I shop at Wal Mart? yes.
> Do I like it? no.
> ...



Of course small business can compete with a big box store.  The small mom and pop junkshop sells exactly the same crap Wal Mart sells, they just charge double the price.  That's why they go out of business.   The answer isn't to deny the consumer the opportunity to pay a more fair price.   Wal Mart like all major stores is an anchor.   A dozen or more stores and shops will open next to a Wal Mart.  Wal Mart doesn't kill small business, it advances it.


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## Connery (Nov 17, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > If the store had the lowest price on something that I wanted yes I would. For those who feel victimized by Walmart's practices I suggest they make themselves better equipped for the job market. Opportunities are plentiful for those who possess the best qualifications, market themselves well and have the wherewithal to commit to what the job market demands.
> ...


The reality where I am  responsible for myself and not let people or corporations  take advantage of me. 




> Your self righteous indignation of the 47% is disgusting



Cry me a river.... the people who bemoan their circumstances may be able to help themselves if they stop bitching and start moving their asses.


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## depotoo (Nov 17, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> Decus said:
> 
> 
> > depotoo said:
> ...



Walmart is the absolute lowest in our area.   For some items is can be as much as $1 or $2 per item even.


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## Connery (Nov 17, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > If the store had the lowest price on something that I wanted yes I would. For those who feel victimized by Walmart's practices I suggest they make themselves better equipped for the job market. Opportunities are plentiful for those who possess the best qualifications, market themselves well and have the wherewithal to commit to what the job market demands.
> ...



You are doing something about your plight, I assume. That is not what I am talking about. 

However, is there a reason why you are not working in Wal-Mart?


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## syrenn (Nov 17, 2012)

Merchant_of_Meh said:


> Nope, but when I want inferior products, I surely know where to go.




so campbell's soup is a different campbells soup at walmart? How about gurbers baby food and pampers? Tide detergent and Dawn dishwashing liquid? 

the list is endless...  National brands are national brand products. The dont come from china either.


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## syrenn (Nov 17, 2012)

freedombecki said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> > Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> ...




I didnt read it... let me guess... its a union rag?


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## syrenn (Nov 17, 2012)

depotoo said:


> Walmart pays the same as Target, yet Walmart is always the big bad wolf.  Why is that?  And since Target's prices are almost always higher, why aren't they paying better wages overall?




and if you look.... all of targets stuff comes from china... just like walmart.


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## syrenn (Nov 17, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> It depends on where the Wal Mart is.   The customers who go to the one in North Redondo are disgusting, the Wal Mart in Torrance is very nice.   Knowing that Wal Mart is non union is enough to get me through the door.




non union...  thats reason enough for me too.


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## Toro (Nov 17, 2012)

I try not to.  I don't like the stores.  But if there is something I need and I don't know where else to go, I'll shop there.


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## R.D. (Nov 17, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow.  Wal mart is the number one killer of small business in America no matter what anyone says.  There is no way local small businsess can compete with Wal Marts low prices.  We got Wal Mart and within a year main street was 50% vacant. Chineese products killing American small business in the womb.  Yet they want us to think it's Obama care.  They say that small business needs all the breaks they can get, and the way that the US government backs big business over small business I can agree.  Large business, with their bought and paid for politicians, kill off  their competition through over regulation every day.  Talk about saving American small business than go shop at Wal Mart, it just doesn't sound right.  Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, our choices our being taken away.  No monopolies but how many cable tv options do you have?  ever tried to change electric companies?
> ...



As is the case with our local hardware store garden supplier and pet store pool supplier etc...


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## Merchant_of_Meh (Nov 17, 2012)

syrenn said:


> Merchant_of_Meh said:
> 
> 
> > Nope, but when I want inferior products, I surely know where to go.
> ...



Can get any and all of that stuff at my local grocery store or even Kroger if I want to shop more upscale. I'm talking about crappy Wal-Mart brands like Mainstays and the like.

I only concern myself for getting the quality that I pay for, the rest is irrelevant.  Based on what I've bought from Wal-Mart in the past, this has not been the case by and large.


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## Rat in the Hat (Nov 17, 2012)

Merchant_of_Meh said:


> Nope, but when I want inferior products, I surely know where to go.



How is a GE light bulb sold at Walmart inferior to a GE light bulb sold at Walgreen's?
How is a bottle of Ecco Domani wine sold at Walmart inferior to a bottle of Ecco Domani wine sold at your local liquor store?
How is a Sony TV sold at Walmart inferior to a Sony TV sold at any other electronics store?

Be specific.


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## Political Junky (Nov 17, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow.  Wal mart is the number one killer of small business in America no matter what anyone says.  There is no way local small businsess can compete with Wal Marts low prices.  We got Wal Mart and within a year main street was 50% vacant. Chineese products killing American small business in the womb.  Yet they want us to think it's Obama care.  They say that small business needs all the breaks they can get, and the way that the US government backs big business over small business I can agree.  Large business, with their bought and paid for politicians, kill off  their competition through over regulation every day.  Talk about saving American small business than go shop at Wal Mart, it just doesn't sound right.  Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, our choices our being taken away.  No monopolies but how many cable tv options do you have?  ever tried to change electric companies?
> ...


So much for defending small business. So it is just a republican talking point.


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## midcan5 (Nov 17, 2012)

Walmart is part of the reason for the decline in America especially for the middle class.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/21/business/wal-mart-cuts-some-health-care-benefits.html


[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Wal-Mart-Effect-Powerful-Works---Transforming/dp/0143038788/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8[/ame]

_


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## syrenn (Nov 17, 2012)

Merchant_of_Meh said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> > Merchant_of_Meh said:
> ...




Walmart does not just offer crappy walmart brands. I am not talking about that stuff 

I make my comparisons with the exact same thing i get at lucky, safeway, wall greens, target ect. You cant beat walmart  prices on national brand stuff. 

I too purchase for quality... and can afford anything i want. And still shop at walmart. Why... becasue its the _same thing_ at a better price.


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## iamwhatiseem (Nov 17, 2012)

WalMart in and of itself is not the problem.
It is what WalMart represents as the nations largest retailer times 5.
It is ironic that a nation that is so "aware" of its own history of slavery and how terrible it was - is the worlds largest consumer of products made by slavery.
 Shopping at WalMart, or anywhere else for that matter, and buying products choosing price as the leading factor of why you buy what you buy - is the core reason slavery not only still exist - but there is more slavery now than perhaps ever before. Thanks to you choosing price over everything else.

  Personally I have a problem benefiting off of someone else's misery. I actually care. When buying products I spend a little time choosing a product that I find to be made with the least amount of slave labor...even if it cost $.50 more.


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## syrenn (Nov 17, 2012)

Rat in the Hat said:


> Merchant_of_Meh said:
> 
> 
> > Nope, but when I want inferior products, I surely know where to go.
> ...



that was my point as well...  

a national brand is a national brand. The list is endless.


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## syrenn (Nov 17, 2012)

iamwhatiseem said:


> WalMart in and of itself is not the problem.
> It is what WalMart represents as the nations largest retailer times 5.
> It is ironic that a nation that is so "aware" of its own history of slavery and how terrible it was - is the worlds largest consumer of products made by slavery.
> Shopping at WalMart, or anywhere else for that matter, and buying products choosing price as the leading factor of why you buy what you buy - is the core reason slavery not only still exist - but there is more slavery now than perhaps ever before. Thanks to you choosing price over everything else.
> ...



I am sure all of the apple loving liberals agree with you.


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## AquaAthena (Nov 17, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Yup, and I don't feel bad about it either




I am proud to shop at Walmart. I generally shop early in the mornings when the store, with the exception of employees, is not busy and I feel I have the place to myself.

The employees at our beautiful store are happy, and laughing and grateful to have their jobs and don't want to go union. The Photo employee has worked there for 12 years, makes $20.00 an hour and loves her health benefits. Or she did as of three months ago. I don't what if anything has changed since.

I am proud of Walmart, for it offers great pricing as well as jobs to others who might be considered unemployable in other stores. 

The store manager is good to the employees and that is reflected in the attitudes of the latter, at our local, clean and spiffy, Walmart.

I like to save money and be made to feel as an important customer. I like to support Walmart but I don't expect perfection; just great prices and friendly attitudes.


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## koshergrl (Nov 17, 2012)

I used to shop Walmart...they opened in my town and suddenly not only could women with no education get jobs, they could afford clothing and toys for their kids, and pay their rent.

Now I don't have one close enough so I shop at Fred Meyer's...there's not as much choice, it's more expensive, and most of the employees work 20 hours a week and live with their mothers.


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## JOSweetHeart (Nov 17, 2012)

Do I shop there? I do and I plan to be there sometime this coming Friday Lord willing and all.   

God bless you always!!!   

Holly


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## syrenn (Nov 17, 2012)

AquaAthena said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > Yup, and I don't feel bad about it either
> ...



 I agree. 

and ....oh no AA..... dont tell them the truth about good wages, benefits and clean well stocked stores. It will ruin the bbbaaaadddd walmart image.


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## Jarlaxle (Nov 17, 2012)

syrenn said:


> Merchant_of_Meh said:
> 
> 
> > syrenn said:
> ...



They have national brands cheaper...and many of their house brands are perfectly fine.  I have bought oil-change supplies there for years.  By lab analysis, their house brand oil (Super Tech) is very good, as good as any brand-name oil and better than many!  The Purolator filters they sell for $3.27 are the exact same ones that cost $8 at NAPA, and are BETTER than the STP filters for $6 at Auto Zone.


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## Connery (Nov 17, 2012)

syrenn said:


> Rat in the Hat said:
> 
> 
> > Merchant_of_Meh said:
> ...



Maybe not....For example,  John Deere makes ride on mowers  for Lowes and Home Depot and makes ride on mowers to be sold by Deere stores those sold in Lowes and HD are of poor quality compared to those sold by Deere stores. The price reflects the difference as well.

Same thing with clothes....Designers create special lines of clothing made specifically for outlets. Are you getting a good deal or getting duped? Designer clothes at discount prices. That is what Outlet Malls promise and that's making them one of the fastest growing segments of American retail. But before you think you're getting a bargain on the best of the best, we have some of the secrets behind outlet clothing. 

They aren't defective, they aren't overstock. *They are "made for outlet" clothes*, a trend designers are jumping onto to attract the more budget-conscious shopper.
'Quality issues do come down to the quality of the fabric," says Beard. Buttons, zippers and other fashionings used in "made for outlet" clothing are a little cheaper. When it comes to construction, outlet production may only measure the garment for fit once or twice, while regular brand will have more stringent tailoring."
'Made for Outlet' clothing: Bargain or bust? | wkyc.com


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## iamwhatiseem (Nov 17, 2012)

syrenn said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> > WalMart in and of itself is not the problem.
> ...



Apple? I don't have a single Apple product in my home.
Liberal? What the f*ck are you talking about? They don't come anymore fiscal conservative than me. So only a "liberal" in your book cares about the plight of others suffering for their benefit? F*ck that.
WalMart, Target, Cosco etc. etc. - they are a reflection of our society, They couldn't exist if it wasn't for mindless consumerism hellbent on getting the most stuff possible.
Cheap products can ONLY exist if the cost of production is as low as possible. Which means slave labor. WHich means people born with no other choice than to work their entire lives in a kind of poverty than we can't even comprehend so we can have a new toaster for $10 instead of $12.


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## Jarlaxle (Nov 17, 2012)

syrenn said:


> Rat in the Hat said:
> 
> 
> > Merchant_of_Meh said:
> ...



Also note: my mother's "Durabrand" (Wal-Mart) television has now outlasted not one, but  THREE "brand name" televisions!


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## percysunshine (Nov 17, 2012)

AquaAthena said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > Yup, and I don't feel bad about it either
> ...



I shop at Walmart early in the morning because AquaAthena wears skimpy dresses...


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## AquaAthena (Nov 17, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> I used to shop Walmart...they opened in my town and suddenly not only could women with no education get jobs, they could afford clothing and toys for their kids, and pay their rent.
> 
> Now I don't have one close enough so I shop at Fred Meyer's...there's not as much choice, it's more expensive, and most of the employees work 20 hours a week and live with their mothers.



*I love* and shop at Fred Meyer, too. Most of the employees at our store are adults and many are in their 60's and say they are working for health insurance, only. 

Fred Meyer, is owned by Kroger, and cannot quite match the pricing of Walmart, because they can't buy in the quantities that Walmart can. 

I shop at both stores. I like Freddy's brand products better than Walmart's. 

FM is also is a beautiful store with more upscale inventory; grocery selection, housing, clothes, etc., and customer service is as awesome as Walmart's.  

I am glad we have a Fred Meyer in the Pacific Northwest.


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## koshergrl (Nov 17, 2012)

Oh I agree, it is a very NICE store, I'm glad we have it. 

But if there was a freddy's and a walmart side by side, I'd go to walmart. Particularly for food.


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## squeeze berry (Nov 17, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> My wife's friend (who is an AF Dependent Wife and Japanese) worked at a WalMart for a year or so when her husband was stationed at nearby Andrews AFB. They promoted her real quick and wanted to put her into Management but she turned it down.
> 
> She said working for WalMart was ok it's just the workers there are just too lazy and stupid (Well, she used Polite Japanese to describe them but that's basically what she said) . She said that she was called upon to finish up what the workers couldn't do (which was often) and apparently was fast tracked for management because of that.
> 
> ...


\

in your area , sure it's an illegal alien magnet. 

About 40 miles west of you, not so bad.

more like trailer trash 

but seriosly.

There are some products there you can not get anywhere else
for that cheap.

One stop shopping
a bad job is better than no job. the local Wal-mart has employees that have been there 15 years


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## GWV5903 (Nov 17, 2012)

Such irony from the left...

Wal Mart provides lower prices for the same product and the Left's endless desire to rip them apart is so pathetic...

How do you claim to be a champion of the poor and downtrodden, yet you decry every move Wal Mart makes...

Wait, could it be, no way, never...

Worthless hypocrites...


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## squeeze berry (Nov 17, 2012)

iamwhatiseem said:


> I will let my signature do the talking...



were those jobs ever intended to be primary incomes?


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## The Professor (Nov 17, 2012)

depotoo said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Decus said:
> ...



My experience is that Walmart prices on name-brand items are much lower than any of the other chains such as Food Lion, Winn Dixie and Publix.  In addition, Walmart will match the advertised price of any other store.


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## iamwhatiseem (Nov 17, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> > I will let my signature do the talking...
> ...



Uh...yes, they are the ONLY incomes they have. Period.
I have a problem with 10 year olds working 14 hour days - obviously you do not.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 17, 2012)

If a ten year old can rob a store, they are old enough to work at one.

Young man and boy, around 10 years old, rob local business | Local & Regional | KATU.com - Portland News, Sports, Traffic Weather and Breaking News - Portland, Oregon

http://www.k********/story/19023024/10-year-old-robs-tobacco-store-with-a-knife


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## squeeze berry (Nov 17, 2012)

iamwhatiseem said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > iamwhatiseem said:
> ...



if they are 10 year olds it is not their primary income 

and I wasreall referring to Wal mart employees


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## AquaAthena (Nov 17, 2012)

GWV5903 said:


> Such irony from the left...
> 
> Wal Mart provides lower prices for the same product and the Left's endless desire to rip them apart is so pathetic...
> 
> ...



Hey GW, this is just a shout-out *for not putting color* into over-sized font. I will actually read your posts, because of that. In fact, I enjoy reading your posts and that is one of the reasons....*you don't blind me with bright color.  *


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## depotoo (Nov 17, 2012)

iamwhatiseem said:


> WalMart in and of itself is not the problem.
> It is what WalMart represents as the nations largest retailer times 5.
> It is ironic that a nation that is so "aware" of its own history of slavery and how terrible it was - is the worlds largest consumer of products made by slavery.
> Shopping at WalMart, or anywhere else for that matter, and buying products choosing price as the leading factor of why you buy what you buy - is the core reason slavery not only still exist - but there is more slavery now than perhaps ever before. Thanks to you choosing price over everything else.
> ...



oh please, they pay the going rate of most all grocers, offer roughly the same benefits, etc.   
In your mind how much should a stocker or a department straightener make per hour?  Or a cashier?  Should people be paid on skill set?  And what skill set with todays registers does a cashier require?  What skill set does it require for someone to straighten up a department, such as putting things back in their place, etc. call for?  What skill set is required to actually stock a shelf?


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## iamwhatiseem (Nov 17, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> > squeeze berry said:
> ...



WalMart employees are not the reason WalMart is successful.
WalMart is successful because they sell products Americans want at the lowest price possible. Which means 10 year olds working 14 hour days. Which means slave labor, people earning $.12 an hour living on dirt floors...all so you can buy a new Mattell toy for $4 instead of $5.99.


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## squeeze berry (Nov 17, 2012)

Ruger made this 10/22 specifically for Wal mart

also known as the wally world special 






I did the VQ drop in accurizing kit with buffer, spring, trigger etc

It's a sweet rifle that you could only get at Wally world

now discontinued


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## squeeze berry (Nov 17, 2012)

iamwhatiseem said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > iamwhatiseem said:
> ...



how the fuck do you know any of this?


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## Luddly Neddite (Nov 17, 2012)

Remember when WalMart lied, said they carried only "made in the USA" merchandise? THAT was when I decided I would never again shop there. I've never been inside one of their stores since and never will. 

If you want to keep China green and shit on your neighbors: shop WalMart.

Shop local, shop small business.


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2012)

depotoo said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> > WalMart in and of itself is not the problem.
> ...



No they don't, well at least not compared to the ones around here. 
They never give you raises, it's hard to get benefits, and they treat their employees like crap. Every grocer here for sure pays more than Walmart. Plus most are in a union. 
People who defend Walmart are complete morons.


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## Luddly Neddite (Nov 17, 2012)

iamwhatiseem said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > iamwhatiseem said:
> ...



A documentary I saw showed little girls putting together tacky little Barbie doll packages to be sent to WalMart (among others). It pointed out that the child workers did not make enough to actually buy one of the dolls.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 17, 2012)

When Wal Mart sold only made in the USA products, many more products really were made in the USA.   I don't care where you buy your TV, it won't be made in America because we don't make any.

Children who work in countries that permit child labor are far better off than in countries where children do not work.   If they work for a bowl of rice a day, that's a bowl of rice they wouldn't otherwise have.

When liberals are successful in closing sweatshops and child labor factories, the children are invariably forced into prostitution.  That .12 an hour is damn good money there and some kids support their families with it.

Anti-sweatshop activists have caused an increase in childhood prostitution « Dan from Squirrel Hill's Blog

Take away the jobs and these children still have to live.  They aren't going to lay down and die because it makes an american liberal feel good.


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## depotoo (Nov 17, 2012)

Luissa said:


> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> > iamwhatiseem said:
> ...



So tell me, what stores are paying alot more? What county in the US?  Let me have some names and I can compare them for you.  And you did not answer my question as to what you think someone should make for those positions and what their skill sets are.


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2012)

depotoo said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > depotoo said:
> ...



Albertson's, Safeway, Rosaurs, Yokes. Etc. 
first off most are unions, which Walmarts prevents their employees from doing in the US. You make a decent income as a checker at all of those places. Checkers at Yokes make more than what my dad does, and have awesome benefits. I have friend who have college degrees but stayed at both Yokes and Albertson's because they could make more as a checker. 
And I think people should make a decent living wage. They have to deal with the asshole public all day.
I was a checker at Kmart where I made crap when I was younger. The public are jackasses, especially ones who shop at Walmart or Kmart. Worst job I have ever had.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Nov 17, 2012)

syrenn said:


> i guess it also depends on what walmart you go to. Ill agree...some of them are just nasty. Others are pretty darn normal....



Agreed. I've been to some Wal Marts in the country that are like Town and Country 
stores and they're the pride of the town. I've been to some suburban Wal Marts that 
are sticky and tacky with smelly workers and it's like they've brought the ghetto with them.


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2012)

Walmart is the downfall of the US. You wanna know what kills small business? Walmart. 
You guys bitch about Obama, while shopping at Walmart.


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## WillowTree (Nov 17, 2012)

Luissa said:


> Walmart is the downfall of the US. You wanna know what kills small business? Walmart.
> You guys bitch about Obama, while shopping at Walmart.



we bitch about obama no matter where we are.


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## WillowTree (Nov 17, 2012)

I bitch about obama in the shower even.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 17, 2012)

Luissa said:


> Walmart is the downfall of the US. You wanna know what kills small business? Walmart.
> You guys bitch about Obama, while shopping at Walmart.



Nonsense.   Wal Mart doesn't kill small business, it increases small business.  There isn't a Wal mart store that's not surrounded by independent stores like a hen sitting on a clutch.  The businesses that Wal Mart kills are the ones selling shoddy overpriced merchandise.  And, those businesses should die.  The corner grocery selling molded produce and green meat with shelf goods long LONG past their expiration date should absolutely be put out of business.    If you really want to buy shoddy goods and pay more for them, by all means support your local small business.  No one is stopping you.

It really is quite easy for a savvy small business to remain healthy and solvent right next to a Wal Mart, plenty do.   They just can't offer the same things as Wal Mart, charge more for them and expect customers to flock to the door.   With a knowledgeable manager a nearby anchor like Wal Mart can only increase business.   Saying that Wal Mart kills small business is like saying Macy's will kill a mall.


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## auditor0007 (Nov 17, 2012)

Connery said:


> If the store had the lowest price on something that I wanted yes I would. For those who feel victimized by Walmart's practices I suggest they make themselves better equipped for the job market. Opportunities are plentiful for those who possess the best qualifications, market themselves well and have the wherewithal to commit to what the job market demands.



While this will never happen, could you imagine if everyone in the US had an advanced degree and wanted to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, or wanted some other high profile job?  Who would work at Walmart or any of the low paying jobs?  There is a point when we need to ask ourselves if people who work full-time deserve a certain level of compensation.  This doesn't mean that a Walmart worker should make as much as the store manager.  But if they work full-time, should they not earn enough to pay their rent, put food on the table, and be covered by adequate health insurance?  These are simple basics that I believe everyone should receive if they work for a living.


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## depotoo (Nov 17, 2012)

Luissa said:


> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



what county?  I can't compare unless I have that info.  So far as the unions, seems maybe that is really your gripe, are you union per chance? 
Upon my research, I can't find anything on Yoke's other than they are located in Washington and in Idaho. 
Now so far as Albertsons, starting wages are the same as Walmart in almost every cateogry.  There is about a $2 difference per hour from Walmart on the high side.  But, if you will note, many stores are having to be closed by Albertsons.  
albertsons to close stores - Bing
Seems Albertsons keeps missing revenue estimates.  We no longer have any Albertson's in our area as they have all been closed. 

So I did find this about Yoke's in Idaho - 


> Yoke&#8217;s Fresh Market, a grocery store that anchors
> the Bonner Mall in Ponderay, soon will complete a
> $3.5 million renovation that includes a new façade,
> signs and fresh paint. The renovation began
> ...


Now according to this that means they would start on average around 25 cents more per hour than the average for Walmart, Target, Publix, Safeway, etc.
Yokes also only has 11 locations of which they have shut down a couple of their other stores already. 

Now, once again, it seems to me your grip eis that Walmart is not unionized and nothing more. 


Safeway pays pretty much identical to Walmart, Target, Home Depot, Kroger & Publix.


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## Connery (Nov 17, 2012)

auditor0007 said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > If the store had the lowest price on something that I wanted yes I would. For those who feel victimized by Walmart's practices I suggest they make themselves better equipped for the job market. Opportunities are plentiful for those who possess the best qualifications, market themselves well and have the wherewithal to commit to what the job market demands.
> ...



I do not believe that an advanced degree is a guarantee for a job or position, it merely qualifies a person for a specific position. 

Sure if a person works full time they should get the rewards that come with that position. Should someone does not and  finds that untenable they should leave or find alternative employment. This shell game of switching hours or compelling employees to do more than they get paid for is a very old one. There are laws to protect employees and  there is the free market to get a job or start a business. The world does not care whether I succeeded or have enough to pay my rent, that is my responsibility. I need to use all that is at my disposable whether it be job assistance, returning to school, working several jobs or whatever the situation calls for in order to maintain myself and survive in this world.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 17, 2012)

I don't find much in Europe to be admirable.  Most of their social engineering BS is just that big piles of BS.   The one thing they did get right is the minimum wage.  There is no across the board minimum wage.  It is classification by classification.   What minimum wage is for your job, depends on your job category.   Some categories pay as little as $3.00 an hour.  Some pay more than $100.00 an hour.   If a person cannot live on $3.00 an hour, it is their obligation to move into a different category.   The problem isn't that people become low wage workers and cannot pay rent, put food on the table or have health insurance.  It's that they expect to do that on low wages!    If they do choose to make their living for their entire lives, then they have to make personal adjustments, get roommates, learn to like rice and beans, go to the free clinic.   Or find a way to advance.  

No matter how much a worker needs, tasks have a value of their own.   Mopping floors has a value.  Stocking shelves has a value.  The value remains the same no matter what the laborer needs.   I've run businesses for many years, all kinds of different businesses.  It isn't easy to get people to recognize the value of what they do.   A man who was hired to mop floors and clean cages wanted $30.00 an hour because that would meet his needs.   I could not budge him into recognition that floor mopping had a value of its own that didn't require paying someone $30.00 an hour so I let him go.  

If a store, like WalMart has job requirements whose value does not match the living expenses of the worker, the solution is to get workers who are not wholly dependent on their salaries.   Retirees, second income spouses, living at home young people are ideal candidates for those positions.   It is not up to the employer to meet the needs of employees.  It is up to the employer to find employees whose needs match the value of the work they do.


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## auditor0007 (Nov 17, 2012)

Connery said:


> auditor0007 said:
> 
> 
> > Connery said:
> ...



The US became the superpower that it is behind its middle class.  That middle class was created by demanding that American workers be paid fair and reasonable wages for the work they did.  We no longer back the American worker, and because of this, we are losing the middle class.  The funniest thing about it is that we blame the poor workers for all of it.  American business continues to shoot itself in the foot for the long run in the name of instant profit for the short run.


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## tjvh (Nov 17, 2012)

You know it's funny... Ever since I became aware that there is a certain fringe element of Liberals that *despise* everything Wal-Mart stands for I have become quite fond of shopping there.


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## iamwhatiseem (Nov 17, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> > squeeze berry said:
> ...



Seriously??
How the fuck can you NOT know any of this???


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## Katzndogz (Nov 17, 2012)

We are losing the middle class because more and more of the middle class is being forced into government dependency.    The government answer is to pay as much in dependency as the middle class used to make by working.  

In reality, no one cares that someone in Bangladesh is making $43.00 a month because $43.00 a month is a substantial middle class lifestyle in Bangladesh.   Having ten year olds working 14 hour days is an acceptable trade off to having ten year olds pedaling their ten year old asses on the street for 25 cents a roll.    In Bangladesh there is no government provided welfare.  It may feel noble to liberals to have these kids dying of starvation in back alleys, but it really is better for them to work 14 hour days.  It's okay if you choose to die for the cause, it is not okay to demand that someone else die for YOUR cause.


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## iamwhatiseem (Nov 17, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> We are losing the middle class because more and more of the middle class is being forced into government dependency.    The government answer is to pay as much in dependency as the middle class used to make by working.
> 
> In reality, no one cares that someone in Bangladesh is making $43.00 a month because $43.00 a month is a substantial middle class lifestyle in Bangladesh.   Having ten year olds working 14 hour days is an acceptable trade off to having ten year olds pedaling their ten year old asses on the street for 25 cents a roll.    In Bangladesh there is no government provided welfare.  It may feel noble to liberals to have these kids dying of starvation in back alleys, but it really is better for them to work 14 hour days.  It's okay if you choose to die for the cause, it is not okay to demand that someone else die for YOUR cause.



Sorry. I guess if it makes you feel better by believing this then so be it.
No one should have to work 14 hours per day for $.12 an hour.
The reason they do is because we choose the lowest price on the shelves...again and again.
If tomorrow Americans everywhere started choosing fair trade products and stopped buying products that use slave labor - then it would stop.
  You could say the same thing about black slavery in the south in early America. They lived better as slaves here than in the jungles of Africa - but that doesn't make it any less wrong.


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## Sarah G (Nov 17, 2012)

Political Junky said:


> I shop Costco .. they're fair to their employees.



I wish we had Cosco around here, I've had occasion to use their brand in several items and they are quality..  My city has Walmart.  I go sometimes but I don't especially like it.  Cheap product average prices.


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## HUGGY (Nov 17, 2012)

Amelia said:


> Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> 
> 
> Walmart's Internal Compensation Documents Reveal Systematic Limit On Advancement



Never have.  Never will.  I believe in buying American from locally owned stores as much as possible.

One cannot ALWAYS do this.  But I do investigate the options before I buy anything. Saving a few pennies at the expense of our economy and American jobs is disgusting.


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## Amelia (Nov 17, 2012)

iamwhatiseem said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > We are losing the middle class because more and more of the middle class is being forced into government dependency.    The government answer is to pay as much in dependency as the middle class used to make by working.
> ...





Please address Katz' point that if the $.12 an hour job were unavailable, the children might then have no means of support  and would be more vulnerable to starvation or the sex trade.


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## boedicca (Nov 17, 2012)

I don't shop at Walmart because I cannnot stand the ambiance - and prefer doing as much shopping as possible on the internets.    I save time, which makes me happy.


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## sakinago (Nov 17, 2012)

Amelia said:


> Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> 
> 
> Walmart's Internal Compensation Documents Reveal Systematic Limit On Advancement



Can you people at least look at the sampling of the surveys or studies before you post them. I wish huffington post would be more responsible, but no one is ever going to expect that from them.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Nov 17, 2012)

Luissa said:


> Walmart is the downfall of the US. You wanna know what kills small business? Walmart.
> You guys bitch about Obama, while shopping at Walmart.



That's a load of crap. You clearly don't get economies of scale. Go to business school.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Nov 17, 2012)

Sarah G said:


> Political Junky said:
> 
> 
> > I shop Costco .. they're fair to their employees.
> ...



Average prices? Try the cheapest prices.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 17, 2012)

iamwhatiseem said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > We are losing the middle class because more and more of the middle class is being forced into government dependency.    The government answer is to pay as much in dependency as the middle class used to make by working.
> ...



Except the workers in Bangladesh aren't here.  They are able to improve their standard of living in Bangladesh.  If everyone stopped buying products made with low wage labor, not only would prices rise, but those people would not have jobs at all.   These people aren't slaves.   They are glad to have a job.   But to those who consider all working for money nothing but wage slaves I can see it being slavery.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 17, 2012)

Amelia said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



It's worse than that really.   Parents will break the bones of their children and allow them to heal as twisted limbs to make them more sympathetic beggars.  There are worse things than working for a living.

A Rolling Crone: CHILD BEGGARS IN INDIA

Frommers Guide to India in the Mumbai section deals with the problem of beggars: Families of beggars will twist and weave their way around the cars at traffic lights, hopping and even crawling to your window with displays of open wounds, diseased sores, crushed limbs, and starving babies, their hollow eyes imploring you for a few life-saving rupees.* In the worst of these tales of horror, children are maimed to up the ante by making them appear more pathetic. *The choice is stark: Either lower the window and risk having a sea of unwelcome faces descend on you, or stare ahead and ignore them. To salve your conscience tip generously those who have made it onto the first rung of employment

In India you quickly steel yourself to the crowds of children who are grabbing your arm, knocking on the window of your car, thrusting flowers into your pockets, repeating endlessly the only words of English they know: Hello Madame, food, hungry, money, please, eat

If nothing else, healthy children CAN work which makes not breaking the bones of children, nor allowing open festering sores far less attractive.

By all means, stop buying low cost goods that might be made with child labor.   What do these kids need arms or legs for?


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## depotoo (Nov 17, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> We are losing the middle class because more and more of the middle class is being forced into government dependency.    The government answer is to pay as much in dependency as the middle class used to make by working.
> 
> In reality, no one cares that someone in Bangladesh is making $43.00 a month because $43.00 a month is a substantial middle class lifestyle in Bangladesh.   Having ten year olds working 14 hour days is an acceptable trade off to having ten year olds pedaling their ten year old asses on the street for 25 cents a roll.    In Bangladesh there is no government provided welfare.  It may feel noble to liberals to have these kids dying of starvation in back alleys, but it really is better for them to work 14 hour days.  It's okay if you choose to die for the cause, it is not okay to demand that someone else die for YOUR cause.



very well said!


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > Walmart is the downfall of the US. You wanna know what kills small business? Walmart.
> ...



That's for sure.


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## Synthaholic (Nov 17, 2012)

Amelia said:


> Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> 
> 
> Walmart's Internal Compensation Documents Reveal Systematic Limit On Advancement


I cannot vote, Amelia.  The choices are too drastic.  I do not shop at Wal*Mart, but I frequently pop in and out to pick up something that I cannot find at Costco.  I do this with Publix, also.

So, technically, I do shop there, but I don't shop there.


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > Walmart is the downfall of the US. You wanna know what kills small business? Walmart.
> ...



You are an idiot if you think Walmart helps small businesses. My aunt who lost her job in a small town because the small business she worked for went out of business when Walmart came to town would laugh her ass off at you. 
What a stupid statement.  
Plus there is the fact they make 90% of their shitty products in China. If you support Walmart you are a moron.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 17, 2012)

As soon as I saw that this article was the Huffington Post, I knew it was all hogwash.

Wal Mart not only encourages advancement, but will pay for its employees to go to college to advance up the ranks.

Wal-Mart launches employee college plan - Business - Retail | NBC News

The company also said it will commit $50 million over three years to help workers pay for books and tuition above the reduced tuition rate at American Public University, an online school. After the reduction, tuition will cost $212.50 per undergraduate credit hour and $255 for graduate credits.
Wal-Mart Chief Administrative Officer Tom Mars said the program grew out of a larger commitment to cultivate talent within the company. The plan is open to domestic workers at Walmart and Sam's Club stores.


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> > Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> ...



I bought my son's Halloween costume there, only place that had a Ninja costume. First time I had been in Walmart in about six months. 
I don't like to support them, plus anytime I go in there the place pisses me off.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 17, 2012)

Luissa said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



Then the small business your Aunt worked for didn't know how to run a business.   Small business thrives in the shadow of Wal Mart, Costco, Sam's Club and every other major retailer.    When Wal Mart moves into an area they sponsor programs to show existing small businesses how to compete and what they must do.   The owner of the small business your Aunt worked for may not have wanted to take advantage of such an opportunity.

Every Wal Mart around here is surrounded by a dozen or more small retail businesses.   Wal Marts are anchors in shopping centers.   A small business that's put under by a major retailer probably deserved to go out of business anyway.  They were kept afloat by a lack of competition.   People shopped there because they didn't have a choice, not because they wanted to.  Once they had a choice, they blew the little guy off.


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2012)

depotoo said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > depotoo said:
> ...



No I  am not a union worker. 
Albertson's when I worked there five years ago when it wasn't union bumped you up to journeyman wages after two years. At the time it was $12 an hour. 
I live in Washington, and my friend who is just a checker at Yokes makes About 40k a year. 
Yokes isn't union here because they don't have to be. Their starting pay may be a certain amount but they get very good raises. My friends who have worked at Yokes still work there having started in high school, while everyone I know who works at Walmart hates it. 
When I worked at Kmart we had a manager come back after going to be a manager at Walmart because she hated it so much. I think one of the words she used was brainwashing. 

Compare the employee turn over rate at Walmart to the turn over rate at Yokes.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Nov 17, 2012)

Wal Mart is the obvious target of the left. Their prosperous free market ways are everything they detest.


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## Synthaholic (Nov 17, 2012)

syrenn said:


> its non union.... first great reason to shop there.
> 
> 
> Yeah, when one comes along where i am going ill stop. The closest one is a good 40 miles away. National food brands are national food brands.... and you cant beat their prices.



A few points:

They are carrying less and less national brands, if you've noticed.  Try finding Meuller's noodles/pasta.  They've been dumped.  There are a whole lot of brands that have quietly disappeared, replaced by Wal*Mart's Great Value brand.

Keep an eye on expiration dates.  Wal*Mart's expire quicker than anyone else, except for the low income/food stamp places in the low income side of town.

You CAN beat their prices, and by a huge margin:  Costco.

A 3 lbs. (48oz.) canister of Folgers Coffee at Costco is $9.99-$10.99 (fluctuates).

A 33.9 oz. canister at Wal*Mart is $8.98

When you can buy 68oz. of Carbonell Extra Virgin Olive Oil at Costco for $9.98 and Wal*Mart sells 17oz. for $4.98, it's really a no-brainer.

I could go on and on.

Of course, if you're 30 miles from a Wal*Mart, you're probably no closer to a Costco.  I give you the same advice that Harvey Keitel gave Samuel L. Jackson and John Travolta at the end of 'Pulp Fiction':  "_Move out of the sticks_".


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## Synthaholic (Nov 17, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Wal Mart is the obvious target of the left. Their prosperous free market ways are everything they detest.


You remain a fucking moron.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 17, 2012)

There was a small neighborhood grocery that I knew that was one block from a Ralphs superstore.  One block.   The small mom and pop was sinking fast when it was bought by new owners who had a son recently graduated from business school.  It took him six months to turn that failing grocery into a bustling success.    

There is no way a major store can compete with a well run small business.  No way.  Wal Mart lacks the flexibility to compete with a small business that intends to be successful.


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



The company had been there 60 years, it took a year of Walmart being there And they went out of business. 

"In 2006, the big-box retailer promised to bring jobs to the cash-strapped community. But according to a landmark study by Loyola University, the company's rhetoric didn't match reality: Within two years of Walmart's opening its doors, 82 local stores went out of business."
"According to a provisional study by David Neumark, Junfu Zhang and Stephen Ciccarella called "The Effects of Walmart on Local Labor Markets," for every two jobs Walmart "creates," three local jobs are destroyed."

http://articles.nydailynews.com/201..._1_small-businesses-david-neumark-city-stores


"Assuming Walmart opened the 159 stores needed to reach 21 percent grocery market share in New York City (the same proportion the company enjoys nationally), the impact would be a net loss of almost 4,000 jobs, and a loss of more than $453 million in wages per year for all remaining workers.

What about the new Walmart jobs? According to the report, 4,279 new low-wage Walmart workers would have to rely on social services to make ends meet, costing New York taxpayers over $4 million per year in health care benefits alone. This, in a city where the mayor has asked for $2 billion in budget cuts."
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/...ood-access-while-killing-jobs-open-a-walmart/

"There is strong evidence that rural communities in the United States have been more adversely impacted by the discount mass merchandisers (sometimes referred to as the Wal-Mart phenomenon) than by any other factors in recent times. Studies in Iowa have shown that some small towns lose up to 47 percent of their retail trade after 10 years of Wal-Mart stores nearby (Stone 1997)."
http://www2.econ.iastate.edu/faculty/stone/10yrstudy.pdf



Plus now that everyone shops at Walmart and they make most if their products in China. I wonder how that effects our factory workers? 

My biggest concern isn't even with small businesses, it is with the fact they make most of their stuff in China. And it's crap!


----------



## Luissa (Nov 17, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Wal Mart is the obvious target of the left. Their prosperous free market ways are everything they detest.



It should be the obvious target for everyone. 
Just think about how many jobs you are killing when you buy your cheaply made product that was made in China, next time you are at Walmart. 
Prime example... My parents bought a small portable heater from Walmart that was made in China.. It crapped out in two years. They still have another one that they bought when I was a baby. 
You wanna know the difference between the two? The one bought in the 1980 was made in a mid west factory, by decent materials.


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## iamwhatiseem (Nov 17, 2012)

Amelia said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



That is a strawman argument that is a ludicrous and weak excuse to make you feel better. You support slave labor...you simply lack the character to admit it.


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## Amelia (Nov 17, 2012)

iamwhatiseem said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> > iamwhatiseem said:
> ...




Liberals are famously glib about the unforeseen consequences of their crusades.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

iamwhatiseem said:


> I will let my signature do the talking...



You could save a lot of space if you just changed your sig to "I'm a fucking moron".  It conveys the same message, but more efficiently.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

Decus said:


> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> > Walmart pays the same as Target, yet Walmart is always the big bad wolf.  Why is that?  And since Target's prices are almost always higher, why aren't they paying better wages overall?
> ...



Not to mention that there's only so much shit you can buy in bulk from Costco.  Where do you go to get the OTHER things you need, or the things Costco doesn't carry?


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > If the store had the lowest price on something that I wanted yes I would. For those who feel victimized by Walmart's practices I suggest they make themselves better equipped for the job market. Opportunities are plentiful for those who possess the best qualifications, market themselves well and have the wherewithal to commit to what the job market demands.
> ...



Have you considered that people just don't like you?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> > Walmart pays the same as Target, yet Walmart is always the big bad wolf.  Why is that?  And since Target's prices are almost always higher, why aren't they paying better wages overall?
> ...



I shop WalMart and Target both, as well as KMart.  Can't see any reason I have to choose either/or.  Any experienced shopper knows which store is the best place to get which item.  I even make regular trips to the Food City on the Mexican side of town for items that the regular supermarkets don't carry.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow.  Wal mart is the number one killer of small business in America no matter what anyone says.  There is no way local small businsess can compete with Wal Marts low prices.  We got Wal Mart and within a year main street was 50% vacant. Chineese products killing American small business in the womb.  Yet they want us to think it's Obama care.  They say that small business needs all the breaks they can get, and the way that the US government backs big business over small business I can agree.  Large business, with their bought and paid for politicians, kill off  their competition through over regulation every day.  Talk about saving American small business than go shop at Wal Mart, it just doesn't sound right.  Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, our choices our being taken away.  No monopolies but how many cable tv options do you have?  ever tried to change electric companies?
> ...



I'm not planning on shedding any tears - or spending twice as many dollars - over business people who don't learn to adapt to current economic realities and make wise choices based on them.  I didn't get my panties in a ruffle when the changing economic world took down Montgomery Ward's, A & P, etc., and I'm not intending to do it for smaller businesses, either.

Life sucks.  Wear a helmet and kwitcher bellyaching.


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > spectrumc01 said:
> ...


Then I hope you are not a republican who blames Obama for the coal mines shutting down on the east coast. Just sayin.


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## kiwiman127 (Nov 17, 2012)

No I don't shop at Walmart.  I gave it a few tries, but _no mas_!
The reasons are,,,their _Great Value_ products (at least in the grocery section) suck.  (My wife is a gourmet cook and she would know ).  Second, the aisles are way too narrow, so if someone is in the aisle you want to shop and they have a shopping cart and so do I, well look for a traffic jam, I hate that.  They never have enough cashiers at their cash registers. so you wait and wait.  It's hard to find help to direct you to where a product is; in other words, poor customer service.
I like Target better if I want something on the cheap.  I go to Ma & PA stores to help save Main Street America is the biggest reason.  I see Walmart destroying Americana is the main reason I don't/won't shop Walmart.  And I'll pay the extra price to keep Main Street vital.  Main Street America is that important to me.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

Connery said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Connery said:
> ...



I understand WalMart isn't fond of hiring ill-mannered, curmudgeonly assholes, so that might be it.


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## blackhawk (Nov 17, 2012)

Amelia said:


> Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> 
> 
> Walmart's Internal Compensation Documents Reveal Systematic Limit On Advancement



I don't disapprove of Walmart and do shop there sometimes.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

R.D. said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > spectrumc01 said:
> ...



Now, see, I shop at the small hardware store near my house instead of Home Depot because Home Depot's employees typically don't know their asses from their elbows when it comes to home repair.  With WalMart, though, I don't NEED their employees to know anything besides where stuff is located.  I'm not asking THEM for advice.  If I was, it might be different.

Small businesses need to understand that to compete in an economy that has big box stores, you have to find something to provide your customers that the box stores can't, be it superior service and assistance, specialty "niche" items, or whatever.  Those businesses which understand this concept survive and thrive.  The ones who can't move out of the past, where Mom-and-Pop stores supplied the basic necessities of life to everyone, die.  It's as simple as that.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

Rat in the Hat said:


> Merchant_of_Meh said:
> 
> 
> > Nope, but when I want inferior products, I surely know where to go.
> ...



He seems to think that WalMart's generic store brands are somehow inferior to the generic store brands sold at other stores.  Or something.  Not really sure.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

Political Junky said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > spectrumc01 said:
> ...



You don't defend small business by turning shopping into a charitable act.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

syrenn said:


> Merchant_of_Meh said:
> 
> 
> > syrenn said:
> ...



Smart, experienced shoppers ALSO know when the generic store brand is just fine, and when it's necessary to spend a little more for the name brand.

Clearly, very few of the leftists on this board are smart, experienced shoppers.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Oh I agree, it is a very NICE store, I'm glad we have it.
> 
> But if there was a freddy's and a walmart side by side, I'd go to walmart. Particularly for food.



I have two Fry's - the local Kroger supermarket - within a couple miles of my house, and also a WalMart Neighborhood Market.  I do most of my shopping at Fry's, because their overall pricing and selection is actually better, but I also go to the WalMart Market for certain things they carry that Fry's doesn't, such as my favorite brand of Mexican rice pudding cups and their fresh sushi bar, and for special sale items they may be having(there's no place like WalMart for a sale on Diet Coke).


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

squeeze berry said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> > squeeze berry said:
> ...



Actually, it might be.  Third-world countries are very different from first-tier, a fact that leftists never seem to comprehend.  It's a source of never-ending fascination to watch the left hamstring every chance the third world has of advancing, all in the name of helping it advance.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> > squeeze berry said:
> ...



  And now it's supposed to be a scandalous newsflash that children in impoverished third-world countries can't afford to buy toys.

Lemme ask you something, dumbass.  How likely do you think it'll be for children in that country to EVER have toys - and clean water, education, food, other frivolous shit like that - if companies from first-tier nations DON'T go open factories there and give people jobs?  What do you suppose those little girls did for money to feed their families before that factory opened?  Have you ever even considered these questions, or did you just leap straight to outrage that third-world jobs don't pay the same dollar amounts as jobs in America?


----------



## dukect45 (Nov 17, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> My wife's friend (who is an AF Dependent Wife and Japanese) worked at a WalMart for a year or so when her husband was stationed at nearby Andrews AFB. They promoted her real quick and wanted to put her into Management but she turned it down.
> 
> She said working for WalMart was ok it's just the workers there are just too lazy and stupid (Well, she used Polite Japanese to describe them but that's basically what she said) . She said that she was called upon to finish up what the workers couldn't do (which was often) and apparently was fast tracked for management because of that.
> 
> ...



Its the same around where I live Walmarts are just plain nasty that's why I go to Target a much cleaner and has better service


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> I bitch about obama in the shower even.



Willow, who exactly is in your shower for you to bitch TO?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

Sarah G said:


> Political Junky said:
> 
> 
> > I shop Costco .. they're fair to their employees.
> ...



Exactly what are these other brands you think Costco and other stores are selling that WalMart doesn't?  What are these "cheap product" brands WalMart has that other stores don't deign to sully themselves with?

In other words, what the fuck are you blathering about?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



These leftists are really incapable of looking at the examples of nations like Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, etc. which started out as impoverished sources of cheap manufacturing for American companies, and used that infusion of money into their economies to rise to higher levels of civilization and standards of living for their people.

As much as I hate that it's necessary for third-world countries to go through a period where children have to work in factories to help support their families in order to eventually aspire to second- or first-tier status, it's still a fact of life.  And the brutal truth is that those children are better off working in those factories than they were starving on some dirt farm with their parents and twelve siblings, or being sold as sex slaves, which is how their families survived before the influx of American companies.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> > its non union.... first great reason to shop there.
> ...



Okay, first of all, the word is "fewer", not "less", in this instance.  I assume that English is your mother tongue, so perhaps you should learn to speak it.

Second of all, I've never heard of Mueller's pasta in my life, so they can't have been all THAT "national" a brand.  WalMart can't carry everything, but they carry the same name brands, in general, that the local supermarkets are carrying, whatever those might be for your area.  The only brand of anything that my local WalMart sells that the other stores don't is their own store brand.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> There was a small neighborhood grocery that I knew that was one block from a Ralphs superstore.  One block.   The small mom and pop was sinking fast when it was bought by new owners who had a son recently graduated from business school.  It took him six months to turn that failing grocery into a bustling success.
> 
> There is no way a major store can compete with a well run small business.  No way.  Wal Mart lacks the flexibility to compete with a small business that intends to be successful.



We have scads of thriving small Mom-and-Pop grocery stores in my city.  Know how they manage it?  They specialize in the Mexican brands and foods that Tucson's huge Hispanic - and Mexican food-loving whites - want and can't get at the national chains.  They offer butcher sections that sell cuts and types of meat the big stores don't bother with.  We also have small grocery stores that do the same thing for our various Asian populations.  Think you can buy the REAL bean paste for kimchee in an Albertson's?  Not hardly.

This is not rocket science.  You succeed in business by providing something that people can't get elsewhere, not by begging and guilting them into shopping with you.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

Luissa said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



I would ask what the fuck the government deliberating trying to shut down businesses has to do with businesses closing through their own bad decisions, but that would imply that I thought you were a real person with a functioning brain who was worthy of debate.

I will continue to think - and say - that your beloved Messiah is an ignorant, evil piece of socialist crap, and I will continue to hold you fools with your noses shoved up his ass responsible for every single solitary bit of suffering endured by the rest of the nation as he turns us into Greece Redux, and there is not a damned thing you can do to stop it.  Your pathetic attempts at making excuses for him out of your boundless ignorance has not worked in the past, and it will not work now.

I suggest you give up and accept that any post with your name as its heading will translate to nothing more than, "Blah blah blah, this is bullshit, Luissa said it so it's not worth looking at."  You might as well just pick a key at random and hold it down for five seconds.  Same results.


----------



## wavingrl (Nov 17, 2012)

?There is more bombing in Israel and 'a lot' of people are thinking deep thoughts about Walmart I guess I understand.

There is a 'hot' debate raging locally over the construction of a new Walmart. Close to one of our best communities---strong, strong feelings. 

Seems like it will happen. Good for the economy for the area on the other side of the 'better community'. 

I would tell you more but the little finger on my left hand hurts. Like an idiot I grabbed an old plastic chair to hang a wind chime in May. The leg broke and I fell in a way to bend the finger. Took hours for it straighten out--so wierd. The doctor at Urgent Care said--'Your finger must have been like this for a long time--go to an emergency room and get an Xray.'

I tried to do that--Saturday afternoon-=it was too busy. On Monday I saw my PPC and he said--'Might be fractured.'  He tried to look at it and it hurt. I didn't worry about that any more until a few weeks ago when my dog jerked his leash and reinjured it. It hurts now. Throbs.

But, I type on. If I want to do something I will find a way. shrug.

When I want to I go to Walmart.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

wavingrl said:


> ?There is more bombing in Israel and 'a lot' of people are thinking deep thoughts about Walmart I guess I understand.
> 
> There is a 'hot' debate raging locally over the construction of a new Walmart. Close to one of our best communities---strong, strong feelings.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry, but what does bombings in Israel have to do with anything?  Are you, perhaps, suggesting that no one should ever talk about any subject OTHER than those you deem "important enough"?  Or are you assuming that the rest of us are incapable of multitasking, and thinking about and debating many different topics?


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## syrenn (Nov 17, 2012)

iamwhatiseem said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > iamwhatiseem said:
> ...





Really? 

So national brands made in america.... are made with slave labor 10 year olds?


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## Immanuel (Nov 17, 2012)

I'm a guy and I hate to shop.  I avoid shopping at all times.  However, since the Walmart Superstore is the closest place to shop to my home, if I absolutely have to shop, I will go to Walmart.  And, since it has most anything I would need to shop for, I am extremely glad it is there. 

Thank you Walmart for placing your store in its location!

Another nice thing about it is that the young kids looking for work and moms looking for extra cash in my area are employed, many of them at Walmart.

Immie


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## wavingrl (Nov 17, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> wavingrl said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry, but what does bombings in Israel have to do with anything?  Are you, perhaps, suggesting that no one should ever talk about any subject OTHER than those you deem "important enough"?  Or are you assuming that the rest of us are incapable of multitasking, and thinking about and debating many different topics?
> ...


----------



## syrenn (Nov 17, 2012)

Luissa said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Amelia said:
> ...




ooohh..... off topic... does he like ninja things?


----------



## syrenn (Nov 17, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> > its non union.... first great reason to shop there.
> ...



Walmart also carries golden grain and DeCecco pasta.. same brand that safeway and lucky carry. Walmart _always _have a good $1.25 less then on a daily basis. 

I shop at costco on a regular basis.... and love them. Ive been a member with them from the start... 

The problem is.... not everyone has a costco...nor do they wish to pay to become a member.


----------



## syrenn (Nov 17, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> > Merchant_of_Meh said:
> ...




agreed.... some generic store brands are much superior then others. I find that costco generic is very high quality. 

But for the slam walmart fest... its best to stick with apples to apples..... So national brands. They are exactly the same thing...made and make in the same place by the same people.


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## wavingrl (Nov 17, 2012)

I am not certain about Walmart produce--in my area --there are better choices.

An International Market is nearby--less expensive than almost any other company. I have been told by a 'food expert'/realtor/son of a chef and restaurant owner that the International Market is a good choice.

If I chose to drive for a half hour I could go to another International Market--DeKalb Farmers' Market. It has been in business for over 40 years----it is loved by many here. Very health conscious people in the ATL perhaps because of the CDC? 

That is the frequently expressed opinion --go to an International Market. Some prefer organic/Whole Foods. They frequently rise early on Saturday AM and purchase produce from independent organic growers. That is something I have yet to do.

We grow our own tomatoes in the summer. Butternut squash for fall/winter, a few herbs and sometimes turnip greens---no one wanted to do that this year. People in the South enjoy turnip greens, turnips and sweet potatoes. Others do too, I know. Get the vitamins the freshest way you can many prefer to do that wherever they are. 

Walmart does well on certain things--at the end of the summer 2nd week in September, to be exact---the week after Sept 11---they have a 50% off sale on things like solar lights--summer yard accessories.

I hit the jackpot this year--stocked up. hehehehehehehehe--The yard is ready for the holidays--lots of solar lights of all kinds. By November the choice is basically Home Depot, good quality but more expensive. I learned that last year.


----------



## Political Junky (Nov 17, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Political Junky said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...


Then suggest the GOP stop touting their affection for small business.


----------



## iamwhatiseem (Nov 17, 2012)

Amelia said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> > Amelia said:
> ...



Are they? I wouldn't know.


----------



## JOSweetHeart (Nov 17, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> I'm a guy and I hate to shop.


I am a girl and I hate to shop, but when Christmas time is here, Wal-Mart and the mall is where I go to buy for other people.   

God bless you always!!!   

Holly

P.S. To me, Christmas shopping is like a scavenger hunt.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

syrenn said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > syrenn said:
> ...



People who live alone tend not to see the point in buying in bulk for almost everything they buy, since they would have to store a lot more stuff for a lot longer than someone with a large family.  For those people, stores that sell in smaller quantities can be preferable choices.  God bless capitalism, where everyone can find someone willing to cater to their preferences in exchange for filthy lucre!


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

Political Junky said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Political Junky said:
> ...



Suggest you learn the difference between what sounds good for business to halfwit liberals and what actually IS good for business, and also that no one with more than a teaspoon of brains gives a damn WHAT you suggest, or what you "think".


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

iamwhatiseem said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> > iamwhatiseem said:
> ...



But then, you could say that about a lot of things, couldn't you?


----------



## Immanuel (Nov 17, 2012)

JOSweetHeart said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a guy and I hate to shop.
> ...



When online shopping became popular, I was skeptical of it and stayed away, but I have to say I am becoming a much bigger fan as the years go by.  

God Bless You as well and my the Joy of the Season be yours.

Immie


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## JOSweetHeart (Nov 17, 2012)

^^^ Right back at you!   

Holly

P.S. I buy from the Wal-Mart website too.


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## HUGGY (Nov 17, 2012)

JOSweetHeart said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a guy and I hate to shop.
> ...



You could be a better supporter of China if you just fly over there and buy your XMas junk directly.  Supporting minimum wages and making the Waltons more wealthy is obscene.  I bet your engagement ring has a blood diamond on it.


----------



## Rozman (Nov 17, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> JOSweetHeart said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...





There you go.That's the Liberal Christmas spirit.
And when Bill O'Reilly points out the left's attack on Christmas the Libs get pissed..


----------



## HUGGY (Nov 17, 2012)

Rozman said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > JOSweetHeart said:
> ...



I don't care one way or the other what the left thinks about XMas.  I don't care one way or the other what Bill O'Reilly thinks either.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Nov 17, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Decus said:
> 
> 
> > depotoo said:
> ...



Or when you have no children and simply don't NEED the huge packages that are all Costco sells!


----------



## Jarlaxle (Nov 17, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > syrenn said:
> ...



Selection varies, like with any other store chain...for whatever reason, the one I shop at doesn't carry Hershey's baking chocolate anymore...now it's Ghiardelli's and Nestle.  But things are usually cheaper.  I can give a pretty good comparison because I did some shopping for my mother recently: things for a corned beef dinner and to make cheesecake.  Almost everything was cheaper than at the supermarket, since I made a point to check later that week:
The cream cheese (Philadelphia) was $2.29 for a pound at WM, versus $1.99 for HALF a pound.
The brisket (my mother's exact words: "one of the leanest I've ever seen") was a bit more than $1 cheaper per pound.
Vanilla extract (GV brand) was exactly HALF the price.
Semi-sweet chocolate morsels were about the same price. (Nestle versus Hershey's, Ghiardelli's is way overpriced.)
A half-gallon of milk was about 50 cents less (store brands, though both are Hood).
A 5lb bag of potatoes was $1 less.
A 3lb bag of onions was about the same price.


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## Toro (Nov 17, 2012)

You can't buy Canali suits at Wal-Mart.


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## syrenn (Nov 17, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



Exactly! 

Truthfully i dont see how families can afford _not_ to purchase at places like costco, sams and walmart. 

More so if they are on foodstamps..... what they do get (which is not much) goes much further at a place like walmart.


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## del (Nov 17, 2012)

Rozman said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > JOSweetHeart said:
> ...



and the rest of us laugh

attack on christmas


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## del (Nov 17, 2012)

Toro said:


> You can't buy Canali suits at Wal-Mart.



you can accessorize them with a nice pair of tube socks, though


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## thanatos144 (Nov 17, 2012)

Luissa said:


> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



Albertson's, Safeway, Rosaurs, Yokes are companies downsizing and going bankrupt.....


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## thanatos144 (Nov 17, 2012)

iamwhatiseem said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > iamwhatiseem said:
> ...



I will just go right out and say it... you are full of shit.


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## Toro (Nov 17, 2012)

A friend's brother is a professor at Columbia and lives in Manhattan.  He asks her to go to Wal-Mart and buy him toiletries and other daily necessities and bring them to him when she goes to New York.  I'd never heard of such a thing until she told us.


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## syrenn (Nov 17, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > depotoo said:
> ...




unions seem to fuck up everything!


----------



## syrenn (Nov 17, 2012)

Toro said:


> A friend's brother is a professor at Columbia and lives in Manhattan.  He asks her to go to Wal-Mart and buy him toiletries and other daily necessities and bring them to him when she goes to New York.  I'd never heard of such a thing until she told us.




any idea how much stuff costs in manhattan?  Hell... the _doorman_ at the home depot had a_ long dress coat, cap...and gloves_!!


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## TheGreatGatsby (Nov 17, 2012)

Toro said:


> A friend's brother is a professor at Columbia and lives in Manhattan.  He asks her to go to Wal-Mart and buy him toiletries and other daily necessities and bring them to him when she goes to New York.  I'd never heard of such a thing until she told us.



I was in Manhattan in 2002. The cheapest a coffee shop or net cafe had online usage was for $15 for 10 minutes. That's base cost. I think I found somewhere else that was $20-$25 for an hour. Eventually I found a BK by Wall Street that gave a free half hour with an order. But it was a long way from Time Square.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 17, 2012)

iamwhatiseem said:


> Which means 10 year olds working 14 hour days. Which means slave labor, people earning $.12 an hour living on dirt floors...all so you can buy a new Mattell toy for $4 instead of $5.99.



if course if any of that was true you'd have examples. I wonder why the liberal forget them????????

Also, please keep in mind that even the liberal NY times supports child labor. There are numerous instances documented by Nick Kristoff wherein liberal fool do gooders closed down factories or had  child laborers fired and the poor kids died because they had no better option.

way too complicated for a liberal-right??


----------



## syrenn (Nov 17, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > A friend's brother is a professor at Columbia and lives in Manhattan.  He asks her to go to Wal-Mart and buy him toiletries and other daily necessities and bring them to him when she goes to New York.  I'd never heard of such a thing until she told us.
> ...



yeah... but they have duane reade on every corner!!!


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 17, 2012)

Toro said:


> A friend's brother is a professor at Columbia and lives in Manhattan.  He asks her to go to Wal-Mart and buy him toiletries and other daily necessities and bring them to him when she goes to New York.  I'd never heard of such a thing until she told us.




yes, and in class the liberal professor probably supports a new commie law preventing people from shopping where they want, especially when they are getting the quality and price they want!!

Why should people be so free to act independently anyway when liberal bureaucrats can direct their behavior.


----------



## JOSweetHeart (Nov 17, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> JOSweetHeart said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...


I am not engaged. I am not married either.

God bless you always!!!   

Holly

P.S. I also don't buy XMas junk. Instead I buy Christmas presents.


----------



## Politico (Nov 17, 2012)

Last time I set foot in one was a decade ago.


----------



## del (Nov 17, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > A friend's brother is a professor at Columbia and lives in Manhattan.  He asks her to go to Wal-Mart and buy him toiletries and other daily necessities and bring them to him when she goes to New York.  I'd never heard of such a thing until she told us.
> ...



it's a long way from 2002, too, buckwheat


----------



## syrenn (Nov 17, 2012)

del said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...




 

I named my cat buckwheat! 


























And the other one farina!


----------



## thanatos144 (Nov 17, 2012)

I find it humorous how many talk like they never go to walmart yet lets face it they are mostly talking out of their ass. Like its suppose to be some dirty little secret that people like to save money LOL Only a fucking idiot pays more for something on purpose. Do you fools think it somehow makes you better then the rest that you act like you pay a dollar more for sugar? LMAO


----------



## del (Nov 17, 2012)

^

has issues


----------



## bodecea (Nov 17, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> My wife's friend (who is an AF Dependent Wife and Japanese) worked at a WalMart for a year or so when her husband was stationed at nearby Andrews AFB. They promoted her real quick and wanted to put her into Management but she turned it down.
> 
> She said working for WalMart was ok it's just the workers there are just too lazy and stupid (Well, she used Polite Japanese to describe them but that's basically what she said) . She said that she was called upon to finish up what the workers couldn't do (which was often) and apparently was fast tracked for management because of that.
> 
> ...


Ah...Wegmans.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

syrenn said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > A friend's brother is a professor at Columbia and lives in Manhattan.  He asks her to go to Wal-Mart and buy him toiletries and other daily necessities and bring them to him when she goes to New York.  I'd never heard of such a thing until she told us.
> ...



I think it says it all when the Home Depot has a doorman in the first place.  My local Home Depot has a bunch of people in jeans and orange aprons, and automatic doors.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Nov 17, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > A friend's brother is a professor at Columbia and lives in Manhattan.  He asks her to go to Wal-Mart and buy him toiletries and other daily necessities and bring them to him when she goes to New York.  I'd never heard of such a thing until she told us.
> ...



You're shitting me.  Every coffee shop, bookstore, and fast food restaurant in my city - plus many other businesses - have free Wifi, and will happily let you sit there all damned day, so long as you're quiet and behave yourself.  Most of them don't care if you buy anything, either.

I will say that the mall nearest my house limits the amount of time you can use their Wifi, but since their food court has a McDonald's that's hooked up for unlimited Wifi, it's not exactly an issue.


----------



## Zoom (Nov 17, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> My wife's friend (who is an AF Dependent Wife and Japanese) worked at a WalMart for a year or so when her husband was stationed at nearby Andrews AFB. They promoted her real quick and wanted to put her into Management but she turned it down.
> 
> She said working for WalMart was ok it's just the workers there are just too lazy and stupid (Well, she used Polite Japanese to describe them but that's basically what she said) . She said that she was called upon to finish up what the workers couldn't do (which was often) and apparently was fast tracked for management because of that.
> 
> ...



This just means you live in a shitty area.  Try to improve yourself and do better.  Good luck.


----------



## syrenn (Nov 17, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...



i was rather amused myself.


----------



## JohnA (Nov 17, 2012)

iamwhatiseem said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > iamwhatiseem said:
> ...


 this is where you  bleeding heart liberals dont think it throu .
 sure you can buy a new matell toy in walmart for $4  that  would cost you $5.99 in others stores .
 that  matell toy sold in *other stores *is made in the  same factory  that makes  the walmart one is and the  10 yr olds are working the  same 14 hour day / the only differance is the  mark up .
  if you dont want to buy a product that  is made by 10 yr olds  working 14 hr a day  you wont  buy that  produce in ANY store 

 wake up and smell the roses


----------



## whitehall (Nov 17, 2012)

Amelia said:


> Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> 
> 
> Walmart's Internal Compensation Documents Reveal Systematic Limit On Advancement



You could almost predict it. A new union assault on Walmart. Does anyone think that unionized Walmart would make things cheaper? What does the word "shop" mean anyway? I get stuff at Walmart and I shop at Tiffany's. So how is it anyone's business but mine?


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## Samson (Nov 17, 2012)

By "Shop" you mean offline?



It is for suckers.


----------



## JohnA (Nov 17, 2012)

I shop at walmart or what ever store has the item i want at the best price  dont give a shit of the workers are  union or not dont really care if they are part time full time or just working there for kicks .
 most items you buy and i MEAN MOST are made elsewhere in every store at all price ranges 
the pay for retail workers is mostly competitive 'in all companies 
small mun and pop stores dont pay or have benefits for employees  any better  than the chains .
the idea that if you buy a product in a high class store say **macys** the product is made in american  and the  workers are union getting above minimun wage and benefits  nothing can be further from  the truth .
 and before  you knock walmart any more dont forget that company has job opening for retiries  / students  and mothers who can only work certain  hours .. not many big companies do that .. 

where do you think   APPLE  PRODUCTS  the  adult toys many are so fond of made ??

 why in china or course and the workers toil under the  same conditions as those that produce items for sale in walmart t 



 Jobs was a darling of the left making his money the same way as the walton family does if you really believe in what   you say  dont buy apple products .
l

 stop picking on walmart cus they dont have a union  ..


----------



## percysunshine (Nov 17, 2012)

Samson said:


> By "Shop" you mean offline?
> 
> 
> 
> It is for suckers.



You can't get the aroma of a shopping experience online.


----------



## syrenn (Nov 17, 2012)

whitehall said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> > Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> ...



are you kidding...its union business becasue its money!!! The union is looking at the dues 1% of America... 1.4 million people...would bring in to their coffers. 

they could give a shit about the workers.


----------



## Luissa (Nov 17, 2012)

syrenn said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



He does. I will have to PM you the best story.


----------



## skye (Nov 17, 2012)

I do shop at K Mart here in Oz  .... electronics are cheaper ...why not ... make up too


----------



## Connery (Nov 17, 2012)

I will not buy bird seed or tools from Walmart. They are of a poor quality and the bird seed is filled with millet I like black oil. Walmart has too many twigs that get stuck in my feeder.


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## syrenn (Nov 18, 2012)

Connery said:


> I will not buy bird seed or tools from Walmart. They are of a poor quality and the bird seed is filled with millet I like black oil. Walmart has too many twigs that get stuck in my feeder.




Imas cat food is iams cat food..... 

some things walmart is good for... some not. 

same as everywhere else.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Nov 18, 2012)

Samson said:


> By "Shop" you mean offline?
> 
> 
> 
> It is for suckers.



So you buy your groceries and toilet paper online?


----------



## thanatos144 (Nov 18, 2012)

Samson said:


> By "Shop" you mean offline?
> 
> 
> 
> It is for suckers.



Cause I am sure  giving all your credit info to random online strangers is way more secure then paying with cash at a store.


----------



## Merchant_of_Meh (Nov 18, 2012)

syrenn said:


> Merchant_of_Meh said:
> 
> 
> > syrenn said:
> ...



I would be all for low prices if the stuff I bought from lasted half as long as advertised. That's my problem with Wal-mart and it's not just one store. Maybe its just my personally poor experiences with, but when you go to any store expecting to get the bang for your buck and you don't even get half that, the natural thing to do is stop shopping there. Period.


----------



## The Professor (Nov 18, 2012)

auditor0007 said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > auditor0007 said:
> ...



A "fair" wage has nothing to do with an employee's needs.  Rather it has everything to do with the value of his/her services.  Period.


----------



## HUGGY (Nov 18, 2012)

The Professor said:


> auditor0007 said:
> 
> 
> > Connery said:
> ...



So you are good with Chinese people getting 50 cents an hour living in dorms etc.. so you can save a few cents on some product?  How do you feel about child labor?


----------



## Katzndogz (Nov 18, 2012)

iamwhatiseem said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> > iamwhatiseem said:
> ...



They aren't slaves.  They can leave any time they want.   They choose to work.  But, for the record, I do  support child labor.


----------



## Connery (Nov 18, 2012)

The Professor said:


> auditor0007 said:
> 
> 
> > Connery said:
> ...



I believe there are  factors other than value of service involved in establishing what a fair wage may be, such as: cost of living factors, minimum wage laws, overtime payment laws etc...


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Nov 18, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> I find it humorous how many talk like they never go to walmart yet lets face it they are mostly talking out of their ass. Like its suppose to be some dirty little secret that people like to save money LOL Only a fucking idiot pays more for something on purpose. Do you fools think it somehow makes you better then the rest that you act like you pay a dollar more for sugar? LMAO



The savings isn't that much. Other stores offer similar savings on almost everything. 

More important is whether or not we support "Made in China" and slave wages. We can say we shop there to save money but really, that's a pretty empty argument. Shopping at WalMart is the way you say you really don't give a flip about your country or your fellow citizens.


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Nov 18, 2012)

Oh, and then there's the crappy China quality. 

Why buy crap that will break, wear out, won't wear well? You may think you're saving money, but if you have to replace something sooner, you're really not. 

Obviously, that's not the case if you're buying a brand name but I've found that Amazon is cheaper than almost anyplace else. 

OTOH, there have been reports of problems with Amazon too. 

And so it goes.


----------



## Katzndogz (Nov 18, 2012)

All stores sell the same crappy Chinese stuff because the United States actually has a very small manufacturing base.   Government regulations sent most manufacturing out of the country.


----------



## iamwhatiseem (Nov 18, 2012)

The best way to know if someone is right or wrong in their opinions - is when they are accused of being a liberal on one day - and accused of being a right-winger the next.
 In this thread I have been called a liberal a good dozen times - which is hilarious!! 
To every single person who has labeled me this in this thread - you only show your own bias and lack of argument.


----------



## syrenn (Nov 18, 2012)

Merchant_of_Meh said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> > Merchant_of_Meh said:
> ...




It depends on what you are shopping for. National brand stuff is the same as if you buy it  at walmart or if you buy it elsewhere. 

I don't buy their clothing.... but i would not expect it to last. I do not buy their furniture...as i would not expect it to last. However.. i put those things on the same level as the stuff target is selling.


----------



## syrenn (Nov 18, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> The Professor said:
> 
> 
> > auditor0007 said:
> ...



All if have to say about that is:

Apple


----------



## Katzndogz (Nov 18, 2012)

Connery said:


> The Professor said:
> 
> 
> > auditor0007 said:
> ...



Yes, there are artificial impositions that force wages up.   Which is why there is such a huge market for illegal aliens.    When the service costs more than the value to the employer that job disappears.   Depending on the size of the enterprise, it goes overseas, it goes to an illegal.  It goes to an employee willing to work off the books.


----------



## syrenn (Nov 18, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > I find it humorous how many talk like they never go to walmart yet lets face it they are mostly talking out of their ass. Like its suppose to be some dirty little secret that people like to save money LOL Only a fucking idiot pays more for something on purpose. Do you fools think it somehow makes you better then the rest that you act like you pay a dollar more for sugar? LMAO
> ...




made in china is not just a walmart thing.... 


I shop at ikea.... and most of it is made in china
I shop at target...and most of it is made in china
i shop at macys, nordstorms, sacks, neiman marcus....and it is made in china. 
i shop at bed bath and beyond....and most of it is made in china
i shop at home depot and lowes...and most of it is made in china
i shop at mom and pops...and most of it is made in china..
Most ALL of my stainless steal restaurant small wear equipment.... is made in china

hell.... ralph lauran... his USA olympic uniforms... were made in china. 


so blaming walmart for made in china is a strawman.


----------



## syrenn (Nov 18, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> Oh, and then there's the crappy China quality.
> 
> Why buy crap that will break, wear out, won't wear well? You may think you're saving money, but if you have to replace something sooner, you're really not.
> 
> ...



name brand stuff....is made in china. 


And i am pretty sure most of the stuff on amazon..... is made in china too.


----------



## syrenn (Nov 18, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> All stores sell the same crappy Chinese stuff because the United States actually has a very small manufacturing base.   Government regulations sent most manufacturing out of the country.




that is becasue of unions.....


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Nov 18, 2012)

> The average WalMart factory worker in Bangladesh makes $43 per month. On average, 14 hours per day.
> Thank you for shopping at WalMart.
> The Walton family is worth over $100 billion, gives less than 1% to charity, while 47% of WalMart employees children have no health insurance.
> Thank you for shopping at WalMart.



(Source, iamwhatiseem's signature)



> They aren't slaves. They can leave any time they want. They choose to work. But, for the record, I do support child labor.



I suspect the "average Bangladesh WalMart wage is actually less than that but its true that people like the Waltons AND those who line up like little robots DO support the dead-end cruelty of child labor and of slave conditions for both children and adults.

katzen, you are morally and ethically bankrupt. I actually skip over most of your posts because I don't want to believe that people like you exist. (To be fair, there are a few others here who are filled with the same sad hatred and bitterness that seems to eat at you.)

Yes, they are slaves. In this economy or any other, there simply are not jobs for a certain segment of our society. That does not mean we should value them less or pay them truly slave wages. 

The fact is that individuals don't really have a lot of power over their immediate world. Most of us have no choice but to put up with landlords, banks, bosses, etc. But, one place where we have the ultimate control is how we choose to spend our money.

I've boycotted Proctor and Gamble for more than 30 years. Have they missed me? Nope. But, I can look at myself in the mirror.



> All stores sell the same crappy Chinese stuff because the United States actually has a very small manufacturing base. Government regulations sent most manufacturing out of the country.



No they don't. And, how many times do you have to be told to turn off fox?


----------



## depotoo (Nov 18, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > I find it humorous how many talk like they never go to walmart yet lets face it they are mostly talking out of their ass. Like its suppose to be some dirty little secret that people like to save money LOL Only a fucking idiot pays more for something on purpose. Do you fools think it somehow makes you better then the rest that you act like you pay a dollar more for sugar? LMAO
> ...



have you checked to see where your tv was made?  Or your cell phone?  Or its charger?  Ever owned an ipod?  Iphone? Ipad?  other tablet?  Checked where all the boards in your computer were made?  I think you get my point.


----------



## Katzndogz (Nov 18, 2012)

syrenn said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > All stores sell the same crappy Chinese stuff because the United States actually has a very small manufacturing base.   Government regulations sent most manufacturing out of the country.
> ...



Partly.   Unions have a big share of blame, but regulations have been choking off jobs for years.  Many times factories are out of the United States because regulations have made manufacture in the United States impossible.  The government told Gibson Guitars to move to Madagascar if it wanted to stay in business.


----------



## Katzndogz (Nov 18, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> > The average WalMart factory worker in Bangladesh makes $43 per month. On average, 14 hours per day.
> > Thank you for shopping at WalMart.
> > The Walton family is worth over $100 billion, gives less than 1% to charity, while 47% of WalMart employees children have no health insurance.
> > Thank you for shopping at WalMart.
> ...



I elected to turn you off instead.

California leads the nation in job killing regulations.

Job Killers 2012 - California Chamber of Commerce


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Nov 18, 2012)

syrenn said:


> Merchant_of_Meh said:
> 
> 
> > syrenn said:
> ...



Given the price for their clothing, it lasts plenty long enough for my expectations of everyday, "doing the work of my life" clothes.  And I've found that the clothes I buy my 3-year-old there last MORE than long enough to be a great value for what they cost.

That being said, if I'm looking for something other than "I need some t-shirts to throw on while I clean the house", I'm probably not shopping at WalMart for them.


----------



## The Professor (Nov 18, 2012)

depotoo said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > We are losing the middle class because more and more of the middle class is being forced into government dependency.    The government answer is to pay as much in dependency as the middle class used to make by working.
> ...



Ditto.


----------



## Samson (Nov 18, 2012)

syrenn said:


> luddly.neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, and then there's the crappy China quality.
> ...





Ya Think?


----------



## Political Junky (Nov 18, 2012)

Walmart hires most people part time to avoid giving them health insurance.


----------



## percysunshine (Nov 18, 2012)

Political Junky said:


> Walmart hires most people part time to avoid giving them health insurance.



Walmart hires most people part time because the government gives Walmart incentives to do that.


----------



## Amelia (Nov 18, 2012)

percysunshine said:


> Political Junky said:
> 
> 
> > Walmart hires most people part time to avoid giving them health insurance.
> ...





Good point.  More of those unintended consequences.  Government do-gooding making it uneconomical for employers to give people enough hours to empower them to purchase things which would improve their lives.


----------



## AquaAthena (Nov 18, 2012)

Amelia said:


> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> > Political Junky said:
> ...



So true. Then those part time workers have to make application for the National nipple, in order to meet their needs. Hey! More votes. 

This addresses the Walmart prinicple, directly, if and when one has the time or cares about knowing. 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KHdhrNhh88]The Difference Between Liberal and Conservative - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## TheGreatGatsby (Nov 18, 2012)

63 percent to 37 percent. I don't believe that number. I think a lot of people voting no, take the question to mean do they regularly shop at Wal Mart. I'm guessing that at least 85 percent of people shop at Wal Mart once during a two year period.


----------



## percysunshine (Nov 18, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> 63 percent to 37 percent. I don't believe that number. I think a lot of people voting no, take the question to mean do they regularly shop at Wal Mart. I'm guessing that at least 85 percent of people shop at Wal Mart once during a two year period.



Rich people shop at Walmart. It is easy to spot them...they are the ones wearing disguises...


----------



## TheGreatGatsby (Nov 18, 2012)

percysunshine said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> > 63 percent to 37 percent. I don't believe that number. I think a lot of people voting no, take the question to mean do they regularly shop at Wal Mart. I'm guessing that at least 85 percent of people shop at Wal Mart once during a two year period.
> ...



LOL - I hadn't thought about that. I imagine there are few rich people going to Wal Mart incognito. I think a great many people vote at classier outlets like Target when cost isn't a major concern.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 18, 2012)

percysunshine said:


> Political Junky said:
> 
> 
> > Walmart hires most people part time to avoid giving them health insurance.
> ...



yes !!!!this is especially so now with Obozocare requiring health insurance for full time employess.


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 18, 2012)

I don't really have a choice, they're the only place in town I can buy Velcro fasten shoes for my special needs son.  Occasionally they have them at Big 5 and when they do, I buy them there, those from Big 5 last longer too.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 18, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> I don't really have a choice, they're the only place in town I can buy Velcro fasten shoes for my special needs son.  Occasionally they have them at Big 5 and when they do, I buy them there, those from Big 5 last longer too.



Walmart is learning fast so as to avoid the junk merchandise label that would kill them. I bought an office chair there that lasted for 6 months. When I tried to return it the new chairs said, guaranteed for 350lbs. I bought one; it seems rock solid compared to the first one, and was practicially free.


----------



## thanatos144 (Nov 18, 2012)

depotoo said:


> luddly.neddite said:
> 
> 
> > thanatos144 said:
> ...



you forgot the computer he is using,.


----------



## thanatos144 (Nov 18, 2012)

I find the walmart merchandise doesn't last long to be complete bullshit.  I had a pair of Levi jeans I paid 40 dollars for and I have a pair of jeans from Walmart I paid 13 dollars for.....I still have the cheap jeans the levi's  didn't last long.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby (Nov 18, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> I find the walmart merchandise doesn't last long to be complete bullshit.  I had a pair of Levi jeans I paid 40 dollars for and I have a pair of jeans from Walmart I paid 13 dollars for.....I still have the cheap jeans the levi's  didn't last long.



I'll spend $14 on a pair of shoes at Wal Mart and they'll last like 3 or 4 months. I'll spend $25 on a pair of shoes at Target and they'll last for more than a year. Sometimes you do get more bang for your buck at other places. But if you need something cheap as a band aid then go to Wal Mart.


----------



## JOSweetHeart (Nov 18, 2012)

^^^ I have bought plenty of clothes at Wal-Mart and they are still in one piece when I give them to someone who isn't the greatest at taking care of them to begin with.    

God bless you always!!!   

Holly


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Nov 18, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> > TheGreatGatsby said:
> ...



Cost is ALWAYS a major concern.  You don't get rich and stay rich by saying, "I can afford to pay more for the same thing, because this dump isn't _classy _enough for me."  You get rich and stay rich by understanding the difference between cheap and inexpensive, and ignoring the ambience, since you're not taking THAT home with you, anyway.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Nov 18, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > I find the walmart merchandise doesn't last long to be complete bullshit.  I had a pair of Levi jeans I paid 40 dollars for and I have a pair of jeans from Walmart I paid 13 dollars for.....I still have the cheap jeans the levi's  didn't last long.
> ...



Before WalMart completely gutted their shoe department, I routinely bought everyday slip-ons there for $10, and was still wearing them over a year later.  Gotta know how to pick your shoes.


----------



## Two Thumbs (Nov 18, 2012)

Amelia said:


> Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> 
> 
> Walmart's Internal Compensation Documents Reveal Systematic Limit On Advancement



I do.

hate going, but I gotta stretch a dollar and pinch pennies.

With gas coming down to $3.60/gal, I kinda have to


----------



## Jarlaxle (Nov 18, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > I find the walmart merchandise doesn't last long to be complete bullshit.  I had a pair of Levi jeans I paid 40 dollars for and I have a pair of jeans from Walmart I paid 13 dollars for.....I still have the cheap jeans the levi's  didn't last long.
> ...



I have found that the work boots WalMart sells are just as good as the rest of the typical boots.  Until you get into the truly high-end stuff (think Red Wing), they're all similar quality.  Other than the laces ($2), the $65 Brahmas held up just as well as the $110 Wolverines.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby (Nov 18, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> > percysunshine said:
> ...



People pay for atmosphere and enjoyment and value. I shop at Wal Mart more. But I enjoy shopping at Target much more. Saving marginal amounts of money is not everyone's chief concern all the time.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby (Nov 18, 2012)

Jarlaxle said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> > thanatos144 said:
> ...



Good to know. The shoes I've bought at Wal Mart that wore out fast, I used to cross train and play basketball. Perhaps they would have lasted longer for casual use. And I've had shoes from other places wear out fast too.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Nov 18, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > TheGreatGatsby said:
> ...



I pay for atmosphere and ambience in things like restaurants and movie theatres.  In choosing between WalMart and Target, assuming we're talking about the ones that are both on my side of town? Puhleeze.  That's like talking about whether McDonald's or Burger King has the prettier drive-through.  Who cares?

Admittedly, I wouldn't shop at the WalMart OR the Target on the other side of town, but that's because my car might not be there when I come back out.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 18, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > TheGreatGatsby said:
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Oh, well, serious athletic shoes, yeah.  I'm at the DSW for those, looking for the right orthopedic support.  I wouldn't get THAT stuff at ANY discount department store.


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## JohnA (Nov 18, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> > Political Junky said:
> ...


 part time   help is common in the  retail  industry .
 some folks like students, seniors, at home mothers ,and the disabled   cant work full time  make all employees full time  and you deny work to those in the lower income   bracket  who need it


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## JohnA (Nov 18, 2012)

a just one more ina long line of negative threads about walmart 

 instead  of that what  about some of the positives ,

 POSITIVES 
 they provide muchandise at a price those  in the lower income  bracket can afford 
 they  do a lot of charity work 
 they employ the handicap as greeters 
 they employ the elderly who cant work top many hours for health reasons be in danger of losing govt benefits , 
 they bring other business  to the area 
provide  work for the support industries 
 they  provide employment for those  with limited education and provide  opportunities /education to  advance  
NEGATIVE 

 they  along with most of the other retail  outlets DONT HAVE UNION workers .

 what a fucking shame for those socialists  amongst   us who want to run every body else business but  dont have one of there own .
 no lets end  this bullshit if you dont like there  products /business /practices 

DONT SHOP THERE 
 same reason i avoid companys with  union restictions on there services &  products


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## TheGreatGatsby (Nov 18, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
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You may live in a town with a high quality Wal Mart. Let me tell you that there is a big difference in most Wal Marts and Targets.

Targets are:

- Cleaner
- Have better trained and more professional workers
- Are less crowded
- Have higher quality products
- Have less grungy people hanging out at them


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## thanatos144 (Nov 19, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
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Your full of shit. never have I ever had this experience and I have been ion more target and wal-marts then most people will ever.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Nov 19, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
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> > Cecilie1200 said:
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I've done the country tour of both those stores dude. You clearly are not a very observant person if you disagree.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 19, 2012)

Ernie S. said:


> I wouldn't shop at any store who's employees strike on Black Friday.
> 
> Sorry. I get that way whenever I have to waste my time at HuffPo.



I would shop there because employees were on strike.

I refuse to respect picket lines. And If I needed a job I would cross a picket line to get work.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 19, 2012)

Amelia said:


> Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> 
> 
> Walmart's Internal Compensation Documents Reveal Systematic Limit On Advancement



I shop at Wal-Mart rarely. Maybe twice a year. I fucking hate going there. They do everything they can to make the shopping experience as miserable as possible. These are my three main complaints:  
a) They clutter the aisles with as many promotion and sales racks as possible, making it a royal pain in the ass to manoevre through the store (esp. when its crowded and there are dozens of fat asses, perfectly able to walk, riding on the stores motorized carts). They only offer one size buggy - big ass - so that adds to the problem.
b) They understaff the cash registers. Although they have about 40 or so registers, rarely are more than 10 in use, and usually only 4 or 5. It takes for frickin ever to get through the line.
c) They treat you like a criminal on the way out. Every time my receipt is "checked" on the way out - but "checking" really means you just hand it to someone and they glance at it. They don't verify each item in the cart is on the receipt, so they are actually treating you like a criminal with no actual purpose other than to treat you like a criminal.

If Wal-Mart didn't have those three things I'd probably shop there a lot more often. Its awfully convenient to have all that crap under one roof so I don't have to make multiple stops, but its such a royal pain in the frickin ass to shop there I try to avoid it whenever I can.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 19, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't shop at any store who's employees strike on Black Friday.
> ...


Why do you hate employees?


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 19, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Ernie S. said:
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I don't hate anyone but I will not be bullied into changing my behavior.

If you don't like your job, then quit.  If I needed a job and a bunch of people were refusing to work I would sure as hell cross a picket line because I would never never walk off a job I agreed to work.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 19, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
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Why do you feel bullied?



> If you don't like your job, then quit.  If I needed a job and a bunch of people were refusing to work I would sure as hell cross a picket line because I would never never walk off a job I agreed to work.




Ahh. So you only hate employees that wish to negotiate better compensation with their employers.

Do you also hate businessmen who try to negotiate a better price for goods they buy from other businessmen? Or is their only option for a price they don't like to simply to not buy the good?


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## thanatos144 (Nov 19, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> thanatos144 said:
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Bullshit. Thats right I am calling out your bullshit. What makes wal-mart more dirty???? The fact that its blue and not red??????? Or that the people care more? Cause  Wal-mart has more adults working for them?


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## Katzndogz (Nov 19, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't shop at any store who's employees strike on Black Friday.
> ...



I make a point of shopping at businesses where the unions are on strike.  I got a bit further though, I look at labels.   If there is an indication it was made in a union shop, I won't buy it.  I'll pay more for an import than something made by a union.    I once changed check out lines at the supermarket just because I didn't want to stand in the same line as a man wearing an SEIU purple shirt.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 19, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > OohPooPahDoo said:
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Have you ever crossed a picket line?  I have and those refusing to do their jobs like to try and intimidate others who want to work.



> > If you don't like your job, then quit.  If I needed a job and a bunch of people were refusing to work I would sure as hell cross a picket line because I would never never walk off a job I agreed to work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Shutting down a business is not negotiating.  If you accepted a job offer then you also agreed to work under the terms of the job offer.  An honorable person does what he says he'll do.

If you want to renegotiate then fine go ahead but show up for work while you are renegotiating and if you and your employer can't come to an agreement then you give notice and quit your job.





> Do you also hate businessmen who try to negotiate a better price for goods they buy from other businessmen? Or is their only option for a price they don't like to simply to not buy the good?



How many businessmen organize picket lines in front of other businesses to protest a price?

If you don't like the price you're paying and a vendor won't negotiate then you find another vendor and in the cases , as with some of the stuff I buy, where there is only one source you sometimes have to pay up but I'm not going to have a hundred people march in front of another company because I don't like the prices there.


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## Synthaholic (Nov 19, 2012)

Amelia said:


> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> > Political Junky said:
> ...




Are you claiming that before Obamacare Wal*Mart hired people for fulltime work to supply them with benefits?


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## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 19, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
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If they are breaking the law you should call the cops. If they are just hurting your feelings then you're a pussy.






> How many businessmen organize picket lines in front of other businesses to protest a price?


Why would that be effective? Should the tactics employees use to get the deal they want be determined by what would be best used by their employers in negotiation with other businesses? That wouldn't even make sense.


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## Synthaholic (Nov 19, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> I don't really have a choice, they're the only place in town I can buy Velcro fasten shoes for my special needs son.  Occasionally they have them at Big 5 and when they do, I buy them there, those from Big 5 last longer too.


You have a special needs son and still vote Republican?


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## Synthaholic (Nov 19, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > I find the walmart merchandise doesn't last long to be complete bullshit.  I had a pair of Levi jeans I paid 40 dollars for and I have a pair of jeans from Walmart I paid 13 dollars for.....I still have the cheap jeans the levi's  didn't last long.
> ...



You really don't care about your foot health, do you?

You are a typical Republican: penny wise and pound foolish.


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## Synthaholic (Nov 19, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
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## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 19, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
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As Wal-Mart destroys it competitors, it no longer needs to offer as much variety or even as low price.


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## Synthaholic (Nov 19, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > TheGreatGatsby said:
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Elitist.


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## Synthaholic (Nov 19, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't shop at any store who's employees strike on Black Friday.
> ...


Scab pos.


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## thanatos144 (Nov 19, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > TheGreatGatsby said:
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You mean there is no sears, Meijer, cosco, Publix, ect ect ect ?


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## TheGreatGatsby (Nov 19, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
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> > thanatos144 said:
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The floors are grimier, the people are grimier. The workers attitudes are often crap b/c you get what you pay for.


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## thanatos144 (Nov 19, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > TheGreatGatsby said:
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No they are not more grimy.  There is nothing wrong with me I just don't believe in allowing lies to be promoted. Workers attitude is bullshit as well cause I can find as many pissed off target workers as I can wal-mart. I think ether the Wal-mart by you sucks ass or you are buying in to the bullshit others tell you.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 19, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
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No, that's not what I mean.


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## JWBooth (Nov 19, 2012)

Maybe once every three or four months, and only then when there is something they have that I cannot easily procure somewhere else for an equal or better price. With a little smart shopping, it isn't difficult.

I learned long ago that you get what you pay for. When you have to replace something shoddy two or three times, what have you saved?


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## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 19, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
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You conduct surveys of Wal-Mart and Target employees?


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## Oddball (Nov 19, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > TheGreatGatsby said:
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Pure fucking garbage.

I heard that bullshit line when Wally World was trying to open a store in Steamboat Springs, CO, back in the late '80s...None of the dire predictions about Lincoln Avenue merchants being killed off, made by economically illiterate hand-wringing libroidal pinheads like you, ever came to pass....In fact, the boutiques, clothing merchants and  and touristy crap related store operators are doing as well as ever.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Nov 19, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
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> > thanatos144 said:
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Im guessing your Wal Mart pride is on display. I've been to dozens of Targets and dozens of Wal Marts. I know the score. I have a degree in operations management. I'm trained to spot quality. And your defiant attitude typifies the difference.


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## thanatos144 (Nov 19, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
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I do find your type of elitism disgusting. The main difference between target and Wal-Mart is simple .Target uses red in its decor and has slightly higher prices.....Now Why dont you go look you nose down at others..


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## TheGreatGatsby (Nov 19, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> > thanatos144 said:
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I'm not an elitist. You're just so hyper-sensitive to elitism that you see it where it doesn't exist. I'm actually not arguing with the Wal Mart model. There is a opportunity cost in its model. To offer cheaper products, they have to pay their workers less. If they pay their workers less, the workers are not going to be as good. It's basic economics, basic reality dude.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 19, 2012)

I've been in lots of Targets and Wal Marts.   The Wal Mart in Hemet is clean, well run and has courteous personnel.  So does the Wal Mart in Bullhead City Arizona.   The Target in Torrance is clean, well run and has courteous personnel.  So does the Target in Ft. Mojave Arizona.

The Wal Mart in North Redondo is there because Inglewood successfully protested the opening there so it opened in North Redondo which is close enough to Inglewood to shop there.  It is filthy, much of the merchandise is broken and on the floor.  The personnel are rude and openly comtemptuous of the customers.   The restrooms are filthy enough to be in a third world latrine.     The customers themselves are abusive to one another.   There are numerous knife fights and the occasional shooting.
The Target not far away is the same.  

What you think of Wal Mart or Target will depend on where it is.


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## thanatos144 (Nov 19, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> thanatos144 said:
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You have proof they pay less then Target?


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## Katzndogz (Nov 19, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> thanatos144 said:
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So you are basically saying that the government workers at the DMV, Social Security office and post office are bad because they are paid less and therefore do not OWE courtesy to the customers.

The low paid workers at Wal Mart are STERLING compared to the DMV.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 19, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
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I get treated better at the DMV. DMV workers don't automatically suspect I'm stealing simply because I'm walking out the door.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 19, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > TheGreatGatsby said:
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DMV workers don't want you walking IN the door.


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## JWBooth (Nov 19, 2012)

Discerning a difference in the quality of product or service and then choosing a higher standard is hardly elitism, it is rewarding the superior product or service.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Nov 19, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
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> 
> > thanatos144 said:
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It's well known that they do. If you have to proof to counter that common knowledge then go ahead and post it.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Nov 19, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> > thanatos144 said:
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Those models are not based in the free enterprise system. Management not as motivated by efficiency, profits, etc.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 19, 2012)

We needed new drip pans for our electric range, and I checked at Lowe's, Home Depot, and a local supplier, but when they had ones that fit our stove, they were so expensive I just couldn't see laying out the money.  So I resigned myself to cleaning up the ones I had that are really past redemption and just continue to use them.  I was in the neighborhood so stopped at Wal-mart to buy a pumpkin--they had a large supply--and decided to check out their drip pans.  I found a whole set of drip pans that fit my stove, and were perfectly satisfactory, for $6.98.   All the other places wanted up to $30.    And while not everything you buy at Wal-mart is going to be a bargain, it is precisely that kind of thing that makes them perhaps the most successful retailer the world has ever known.

I'll be going back there today or tomorrow to acquire a new tablecloth for Thanksgiving.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 19, 2012)

I put yes, but it's rare. Walmart is a zoo and their produce is crappy.


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## Koios (Nov 19, 2012)

Amelia said:


> Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> 
> 
> Walmart's Internal Compensation Documents Reveal Systematic Limit On Advancement



I approve of Walmart but do not shop there, since they're not in these parts (Kirkland WA) nor do they carry the stuff that I prefer, by and large.


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## Bigfoot (Nov 19, 2012)

Yes we shop at Walmart a couple of times per month.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Nov 19, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> We needed new drip pans for our electric range, and I checked at Lowe's, Home Depot, and a local supplier, but when they had ones that fit our stove, they were so expensive I just couldn't see laying out the money.  So I resigned myself to cleaning up the ones I had that are really past redemption and just continue to use them.  I was in the neighborhood so stopped at Wal-mart to buy a pumpkin--they had a large supply--and decided to check out their drip pans.  I found a whole set of drip pans that fit my stove, and were perfectly satisfactory, for $6.98.   All the other places wanted up to $30.    And while not everything you buy at Wal-mart is going to be a bargain, it is precisely that kind of thing that makes them perhaps the most successful retailer the world has ever known.
> 
> I'll be going back there today or tomorrow to acquire a new tablecloth for Thanksgiving.



Exactly. I can't tell you how many times I've bought something and then found it for more than 50 percent cheaper at Wal Mart. More often than not, I'll hold off on buying something til I've seen what Wal Mart has. The exception I'll make is when I'm putting a premium on quality. I've bought bikes at Wal Mart and they've fallen apart fast or not rode so well. This last time, I paid the premium for a bike at Target and I'm much happier with my purchase.


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## Immanuel (Nov 19, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



I'd have to agree with TGG.

Walmart is below Target for "shopping experience" i.e. cleanliness, crowds, quality and staff.  However, it does hold a much higher standard than KMart.

The one area that I would say Walmart kicks butt in is selection.  Walmart offers so much more than Target.

Immie


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 19, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> What dream world do you live in? I'm 51 and have tried to get a job since the economy tanked in '08. Well educated, experienced, but yet never even get in for an interview after submitting enough resumes to wall paper a house.



Yet I'll bet you voted to reelect Obama....


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 19, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> I get treated better at the DMV. DMV workers don't automatically suspect I'm stealing simply because I'm walking out the door.



Which makes it easier for you to steal things....


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## Synthaholic (Nov 19, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > OohPooPahDoo said:
> ...


There are no Albertson's, Food World, Food Lion, Save-A-Lot, Shop n' Save.  Very few Winn-Dixie compared to a few years ago.

Now it's mostly Wal*Mart and Publix in Florida, with Costco doing well everywhere it has a warehouse.


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## Synthaholic (Nov 19, 2012)

As usual, Oddball is talking out his ass.

It is a FACT that Wal*Mart has re-designed most of their stores (it's ongoing), converting them to have less variety within product.  Instead of offering 5-7 varieties, they offer 2-3, with one being Great Value.


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## Koios (Nov 19, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> > thanatos144 said:
> ...



Gotta love Costo and its "Kirkland" brand.   Local company does good, even despite shareholder whining about its higher wages.

PS: Walmart, now, not Wal*Mart.  They finally got with the program: no extended charaters, punctuation, nor wingdings in logos / trademarks!!!  They're learning.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Nov 19, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > TheGreatGatsby said:
> ...



Yea. K Mart is the worst. I'm surprised they're still in business. I thought they'd go out of business some years back when their stock went under a buck. They must've did a chapter 11 and restructured.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 19, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > TheGreatGatsby said:
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As far as selection, cleanliness, convenience, and customer service there isn't that much difference between a Target and a Wal-mart in our area.  We do seem to find what we are looking for at a good price at Wal-mart more consistently than we do at Target.  And on a personal note, we now go exclusively to Wal-mart as a preference because they still invite the Salvation Army bell ringers at Christmas and Target tossed them out.  For us it is a grand tradition and Christmas just isn't the same without them.


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## JWBooth (Nov 19, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > thanatos144 said:
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They bought Sears, leveraged and pilfered it for operating cash. Now both are in a squeeze.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 19, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > OohPooPahDoo said:
> ...



They didn't stop me from crossing the picket line so I don't give a shit.  Again I have no respect for any picket line never did never will.






> > How many businessmen organize picket lines in front of other businesses to protest a price?
> 
> 
> Why would that be effective? Should the tactics employees use to get the deal they want be determined by what would be best used by their employers in negotiation with other businesses? That wouldn't even make sense.


[/QUOTE]

Hey idiot you're the one who compared walking off a job and attempting to shut down a business to a business person renegotiating with a vendor not me.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 19, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Ernie S. said:
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Yeah call a guy who wants to work a scab and call people who walk off a job heroes.

When is your welfare check coming in you fucking leech?


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## Immanuel (Nov 19, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > If the store had the lowest price on something that I wanted yes I would. For those who feel victimized by Walmart's practices I suggest they make themselves better equipped for the job market. Opportunities are plentiful for those who possess the best qualifications, market themselves well and have the wherewithal to commit to what the job market demands.
> ...



I can commiserate with that.  Best of luck to you in your search.

Immie


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## Immanuel (Nov 19, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > thanatos144 said:
> ...



Here the Targets seem to be much cleaner, but as I think about it that may be a function of how full they pack their stores.  In Target there are wide aisles... i.e. actually big enough for at least two carts to pass each other going in opposite directions whereas in Walmart, if someone is already in the aisle and stopped to look at an item and you just want to go through to the next section, you have to find an aisle that no one has stopped in to get by and sometimes that can be a challenge. 

Immie


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## Foxfyre (Nov 19, 2012)

Sorry for those who are out of work.  Some of you who really will take a job below what your experience and credentials qualify you for, I have been counseling folks to dress down their resumes.  There are some places who are hiring but there are so many looking for work that employers can be really picky.  And they aren't likely to consider a highly qualified applicant for a lesser job because they know that person will be gone just as soon as there is a better offer.  So they focus on people who aren't as likely to get a better offer and therefore will be more likley to stick around after they are trained and get good at their jobs.

And that would include a lot of Wal-mart jobs.

When my older sister and her husband retired from the New Mexico school system some years ago--back when the economy was still good--he was superintendent of schools; she has a master's degree in music and was a top vocal teacher in the state at the time they retired--they were too young to draw social security and they wanted to make a little easy mad money above their retirement income to pay for medical insurance, travel, etc.  So they tried several different things, but didn't want to work full time, so they thought that well, they could be greeters at Wal-mart.

They applied to be part-time greeters, and were hired immediately; however with their experience and credentials Wal-mart wanted them to have more responsibility.  Because my BIL was a football coach before he went into administration, they put him in charge of the sports department.  My sister was assigned to work in the music, video, electronics area.  to make a long story short, they both found themselves with more responsibility than they really wanted and they quit.   But their experience put to rest all the mostly erroneous stories that Wal-mart doesn't promote its people.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 19, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> > I get treated better at the DMV. DMV workers don't automatically suspect I'm stealing simply because I'm walking out the door.
> ...



Didn't Wal Mart experiment with permissible stealing?


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## Nosmo King (Nov 19, 2012)

I have never NEVER cast a shadow on any Wal Mart floor.  I prefer to buy from local merchants offering American made items.  I love this country too much to sell out to a purveyor of cheap Chinese made junk who treats their employees like crap.

I wonder how many Americans claim a love of country, but defend the policies and practices of Wal Mart?


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## Foxfyre (Nov 19, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> I have never NEVER cast a shadow on any Wal Mart floor.  I prefer to buy from local merchants offering American made items.  I love this country too much to sell out to a purveyor of cheap Chinese made junk who treats their employees like crap.
> 
> I wonder how many Americans claim a love of country, but defend the policies and practices of Wal Mart?



My sister and brother-in-law had absolutely no problem with how they were treated as employees of Wal-mart and they are/were (my BIL has since passed on) dyed-in-the-wool leftwingers who voted consistently Democratic or Green--I don't believe either ever voted for a single Republican in their lives.   But they both praised Wal-mart as an employer and for their compassion, public service, and opportunities provided the employees.  I'm sure there is much to condemn Wal-mart for as there is in any large corporation, but there is also much to commend it.

And other anecdotal testimony has been provided by a couple of folks I know well who currently work at Wal-mart and they love their jobs.

I think Wal-mart sometimes gets a really undeserved bad rap.


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## Nosmo King (Nov 19, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > I have never NEVER cast a shadow on any Wal Mart floor.  I prefer to buy from local merchants offering American made items.  I love this country too much to sell out to a purveyor of cheap Chinese made junk who treats their employees like crap.
> ...


Before Wal Mart came to town, there were four places a knitter to buy yarn.  There were three bicycle shops owned locally.  Four different jewlers, I can't count the number of locally owned pharmacies.  Today, there are three locally owned pharmacies, but just one place to buy a bicycle and one place to buy yarn.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Nov 19, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



We can't pretend there aren't trade-offs. Are we better off due to Wal Mart? I vote yes.


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## Nosmo King (Nov 19, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...


So much for the entrepreneurial spirit.  And ask the former employees of Rubber Maid in Wooster, Ohio if "we're better off due to Wal Mart"!  They'll tell you of a 'trade off' that sent their jobs to Asia so Rubber Maid could meet the pricing point Wal Mart demanded.  That's right.  The retailer demanded a cheaper product and told  Rubber Maid if they wanted their dish strainers and laundry baskets sold in Wal Mart stores, they would have to make them cheaper, like in China!  Better off?  Only if your name is Chin.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 19, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Didn't Wal Mart experiment with permissible stealing?



I've not heard of this, but is sounds intriguing?


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 19, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> So much for the entrepreneurial spirit.  And ask the former employees of Rubber Maid in Wooster, Ohio if "we're better off due to Wal Mart"!  They'll tell you of a 'trade off' that sent their jobs to Asia so Rubber Maid could meet the pricing point Wal Mart demanded.  That's right.  The retailer demanded a cheaper product and told  Rubber Maid if they wanted their dish strainers and laundry baskets sold in Wal Mart stores, they would have to make them cheaper, like in China!  Better off?  Only if your name is Chin.



Utter bullshit.

The lies leftists tell. Rubbermaid went BANKRUPT in 1999, they did NOT move their manufacturing, which was mostly in the UK at the time. They were bought out by Newell corporation.

You shit fer brain fools can't even keep your demagoguery straight. Rubbermaid wanted to increase prices to Walmart, who "pulled the line." Yeah, that happens, prices go up and some people decide not to buy. 

Newell subsequently lost their shirt on Rubbermaid - because the company is not competitive.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 19, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



Okay, that's the flip side.  The big box stores are crowding out some or most or all of the mom & pop stores wherever they go in.  That is the fact of the way the world is, and Wal-mart is by no means the only factor in that trend.  If it wasn't Wal-mart that you resented, it would have been K-mart or Target or one of the less successful chains that would dearly love for Wal-mart to go out of business so they could have it all.

I hate that our local office supply store closed up too because they gave us personal attention and provided special service we don't get from Staples and Office Max that drove them out of business.  I loved our local hardware store for the same reason before it succumbed to Lowe's and Samson's and Home Depot.   Our locally owned pharmacies went out of business when Walgreens came in and all the grocery store chains opened up  pharmacies.  All the quaint special little bookstores that used to dot the city have given away to Borders and Barnes & Noble.   The local music stores couldn't compete with Best Buy and other big box electronic stores.   It is the rare local clothing store that can compete with Sears, Penneys, and Kohls.  All but the largest Christian supply stores have closed up shop because they couldn't compete with their stuff being convenient and cheap on the internet.  The small grocers and most farmers' markets could not compete with Albertsons, Smith, Krogers, and other huge grocery store chains that, by the way, thrive in spite of Wal-mart.

The American public has become accustomed to wide selections, volumn discounts, and the convenience of being able to take care of numerous tasks in one location.  The big box stores, because of much larger volume, can operate on a much lower profit margins than the Mom & Pop stores can do.   So, even though the shoppers have to be price smart and quality consicous because even the big box stores don't always offer the best buy, it is the shoppers who have made Wal-mart and all the other big chains the successes that they are.

It isn't Wal-marts fault.


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## Koios (Nov 19, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Didn't Wal Mart experiment with permissible stealing?
> ...



It is intriguing.  It's possible that in some cases, loss due to shoplifting might have cost them less in shrinkage than the cost to mitigate some but not all of the losses.  A company as in-tune with cost reduction as Walmart might well have considered the postlate, and tested it in one or more stores.

But I merely speculate, since I'm unaware of any such policy or test.


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## emilynghiem (Nov 19, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> I'm not an elitist. You're just so hyper-sensitive to elitism that you see it where it doesn't exist. I'm actually not arguing with the Wal Mart model. There is a opportunity cost in its model. To offer cheaper products, they have to pay their workers less. If they pay their workers less, the workers are not going to be as good. It's basic economics, basic reality dude.



I understand WM is protested for unfair competition in its business practices, such as:
* forcing supplier to cut their prices where they lose money on the sale to WM, but otherwise WM won't contract with them at all, in other words bullying the manufacturers so they have to eat the losses either way, by cutting their profits or not getting any sales at all, so they risk going out of business either way; then WM can buy them out and take over production or go with someone cheaper
* buying out spaces and killing off small towns by driving out all the small businesses
* offering prices below market, pushing competition out of business, then raising the prices afterward, so they are using their size to manipulate the market forces and take advantage

Does Target do the same thing?

My impression is Target has been competing with WalMart by marketing a better image first, and then prices being comparable or lower. But I have not heard complaints about Target abusing unfair competition to drive other businesses or suppliers out of business.
Am I wrong?


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## emilynghiem (Nov 19, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Who do you blame for prostitution, the prostitutes, the customers, the pimps, or all three?


----------



## Koios (Nov 19, 2012)

emilynghiem said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not an elitist. You're just so hyper-sensitive to elitism that you see it where it doesn't exist. I'm actually not arguing with the Wal Mart model. There is a opportunity cost in its model. To offer cheaper products, they have to pay their workers less. If they pay their workers less, the workers are not going to be as good. It's basic economics, basic reality dude.
> ...



Not as effectively, obviously.  Walmart is the very best at what it does, and Sam Walton hit on a gold-mine idea when he figured out that he could drive at night to pick up his own inventory and offer it the next day at a cost his competitors could not match.  Since then, better sourcing of goods has been a driving force in the company he left behind to his family, whom if they pooled their wealth, would easily surpass Bill Gates and Warren Buffett.  Not too shabby for a dumb southerner that K Mart and other thought not worthy of worry.

And nothing in your "unfairness" is in fact illegal.  They have a right to tell suppliers "here's what we have to buy it at to sell it in our stores."  And they offer liaison services to potential suppliers to help them get their product cost down, either with off-shore manufacture or other packaging techniques.  It's quite brilliant.

Also, there's nothing illegal about pricing that steals marketshare.  Only predatory pricing, where selling at a loss over time kills off competition, and then prices are raised back up once a virtual monopoly exists.  And I do not think Walmart's business model is thus.

If we do not like what Walmart or other businesses are doing, to compete in our markets, it's up to us to change the rules, via our elected representatives.  But griping about a company that's really, really unbeatable at playing the game by our rules does little, except maybe earn some commissions for ad agencies and PR firms who they'll hire to help mitigate the ill feelings.


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## Staidhup (Nov 19, 2012)

So, the corner store can't compete because of the paradigm shift that occurred in merchandising 10 years ago. It's time for a reality check, consumers demand the lowest price for their hard earned dollar, and if I am not too far off, after this President is finished the demand will only increase. So spend your money elsewhere and don't ram your politics and bullshit down everyone else's throat.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 19, 2012)

emilynghiem said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not an elitist. You're just so hyper-sensitive to elitism that you see it where it doesn't exist. I'm actually not arguing with the Wal Mart model. There is a opportunity cost in its model. To offer cheaper products, they have to pay their workers less. If they pay their workers less, the workers are not going to be as good. It's basic economics, basic reality dude.
> ...



I can't imagine Target is any different than any other big box store that is able to corner a substantial part of the market.  Certainly competing with Wal-mart has kept the prices in both stores lower.  But I also am aware of many charitable and benevolent activities of Wal-mart that I have not seen from Target.  Would Target be any more noble or benevolent or a better neighbor than Wal-mart if it could corner as much of the market, be profitable in as many locations, and do the volume that Wal-mart does?  I somehow can't see that it would be.

I sometimes do presentations for groups, including small business classes, and one component of that is situational ethics.  As an illustration, I use the concept from the Tom Hanks, Meg Ryan movie "You've Got Mail."   It was of course a love story, but the plot of the movie was Fox Books, a big box book store, putting the small neighborhood children's bookstore  "Shop Around the Corner" out of business.   And most of us who watched the movie found ourselves strongly on the side of "Shop Around the Corner", and yet the character, Joe Fox, (played by Hanks) turned out to be a really decent guy who wasn't at all a devil or ogre even though he knew he was putting the small shop out of business and fully expected to do so.

The former customers of Shop Around the Corner felt guilty about it, but found the allure of a good selection and lower prices too much to resist and abandoned the small shop in favor of the big box store.

So the question then was:   Was it ethical for Fox Books to put Shop Around the Corner out of business?  I've never worked with a group who didn't really struggle with that question.


----------



## Foxfyre (Nov 19, 2012)

emilynghiem said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



Excellent question.  I would take the pimps out of the equation because they are simply the marketing and administration division but, though they sometimes allow things to run more efficiently with there being good and bad pimps, they aren't essential to the business.

But if there were no prostitutes, there would be no customers for prostitution.
If there were no customers, there would be no prostitutes.

It takes both for the enterprise to exist.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 19, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> I can't imagine Target is any different than any other big box store that is able to corner a substantial part of the market.  Certainly competing with Wal-mart has kept the prices in both stores lower.  But I also am aware of many charitable and benevolent activities of Wal-mart that I have not seen from Target.  Would Target be any more noble or benevolent or a better neighbor than Wal-mart if it could corner as much of the market, be profitable in as many locations, and do the volume that Wal-mart does?  I somehow can't see that it would be.
> 
> I sometimes do presentations for groups, including small business classes, and one component of that is situational ethics.  As an illustration, I use the concept from the Tom Hanks, Meg Ryan movie "You've Got Mail."   It was of course a love story, but the plot of the movie was Fox Books, a big box book store, putting the small neighborhood children's bookstore  "Shop Around the Corner" out of business.   And most of us who watched the movie found ourselves strongly on the side of "Shop Around the Corner", and yet the character, Joe Fox, (played by Hanks) turned out to be a really decent guy who wasn't at all a devil or ogre even though he knew he was putting the small shop out of business and fully expected to do so.
> 
> ...



Why would anyone struggle with such a question?

Was it ethical to offer a better product at a lower price?

Um, yeah - it sure was.

The reality of life is that an old tyme blacksmith working iron in a coal driven furnace makes us all tingly inside, but for products, a forge with with thousands of workers puts out better quality at a fraction of the cost.

Same thing with retailing, little local retailers are quaint, but aren't efficient in logistics or supply chain management. Economies of scale.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 19, 2012)

Amelia said:


> Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> 
> 
> Walmart's Internal Compensation Documents Reveal Systematic Limit On Advancement



So?....These people have no legitimate claims. They knew the conditions of the pay scale before they took the job.
Walmart is a NON UNION Company. Those people do not have the right to "strike". Therefore their unexcused absence from work is grounds for termination. 
On the other hand, if they do not care for the conditions under which they are employed, they are free to explore other opportunities for employment. 
This is a bunch of CRAP.
The article clearly states the company turned a NINE PERCENT profit...Big deal. 
Let these whiners stay home from work. They will be replaced. And the stores will still be packed. Who cares. 
We're sick of whiners.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 19, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> My wife's friend (who is an AF Dependent Wife and Japanese) worked at a WalMart for a year or so when her husband was stationed at nearby Andrews AFB. They promoted her real quick and wanted to put her into Management but she turned it down.
> 
> She said working for WalMart was ok it's just the workers there are just too lazy and stupid (Well, she used Polite Japanese to describe them but that's basically what she said) . She said that she was called upon to finish up what the workers couldn't do (which was often) and apparently was fast tracked for management because of that.
> 
> ...


Our local Walmart is clean and well run. The employees seem to be in good morale.
While the one a few miles away is unclean and poorly run. I do not shop there. Of course it is in a lower income area.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 19, 2012)

skye said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> > We don't have a Walmart, so of course I don't shop there. We will probably have one in a few years, though.
> ...



Notice how "Doomi" just had to copy your style of avatar...


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 19, 2012)

Merchant_of_Meh said:


> Nope, but when I want inferior products, I surely know where to go.



That's not logical. I can find the precise make and model of products in other stores that are sold in Walmart.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 19, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > I can't imagine Target is any different than any other big box store that is able to corner a substantial part of the market.  Certainly competing with Wal-mart has kept the prices in both stores lower.  But I also am aware of many charitable and benevolent activities of Wal-mart that I have not seen from Target.  Would Target be any more noble or benevolent or a better neighbor than Wal-mart if it could corner as much of the market, be profitable in as many locations, and do the volume that Wal-mart does?  I somehow can't see that it would be.
> ...



Oh I know, but just as computers and e-mail have displaced the pleasure of actually receiving a hand written letter from a loved one, and Facebook and other modern phenomena have too often replaced getting together with friends just to be together, there are many pleasures that exist only in nostalgia these days.  But it is hard to let them go.

I grew up in small towns where you knew every shop owner, and you would visit almost all of them before your Christmas shopping and preparations were done.  And it was a pure joy and social experience.  There was an intimacy and human touch that will never be matched by an impersonal big box store however much we appreciate the one stop shopping.   So shopping isn't the pleasant social experience it once was.  And the older I get, the more distant I feel from most of the hundreds of people who live near me.   And all that comes with a sense of loss.

But that still isn't Wal-marts fault.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 19, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > If the store had the lowest price on something that I wanted yes I would. For those who feel victimized by Walmart's practices I suggest they make themselves better equipped for the job market. Opportunities are plentiful for those who possess the best qualifications, market themselves well and have the wherewithal to commit to what the job market demands.
> ...



The reality iof we are all responsible to our selves.
If one is dissatisfied with their station, they are free to choose other options. Such as going to school, learning a trade or skill. It's very simple. And lots of people do exactly that.
They don't sit on their dead asses and whine like six year olds that they didn't get their cookies.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 19, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > If the store had the lowest price on something that I wanted yes I would. For those who feel victimized by Walmart's practices I suggest they make themselves better equipped for the job market. Opportunities are plentiful for those who possess the best qualifications, market themselves well and have the wherewithal to commit to what the job market demands.
> ...


What are you looking for? Are you applying for work for which you are qualified? Are you holding out for higher wages? Management?
Have you thought of marketing your skills and starting your own business?
Newsflash. Most companies send out test ads to see what's out there. Most of them ARE NOT hiring. They just want to see what the market is like should they start hiring.
That I got from a recruiter. 
Although there are many employers looking for employees, like any other supply and demand situation, employers are at an advantage. They will only take the best.
Perhaps there are better ways to go about getting yourself past the gatekeepers?
Go to the employer's facility and walk in. Ask to speak to the hiring manager?
Plus, you just very well be a victim of age discrimination. It is rampant.
I am not opposed to your position. Just asking questions.
It is difficult for those over 40 years old with lots of experience to become employed.
Age discrimination is the one type of "Acceptable" discrimination in this nation today. 
Employers just do not fear the same legal blow back as they do with race, sexual or cultural discrimination. Why that is, I have no idea. Other than to think that most older folks are just not the type to run to court and file a suit. Plus, age discrimination is tough to prove.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 19, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > Connery said:
> ...



And those who don't plan for a changing society, economy, and trends are the ones who get left behind.  Such as many small shop owners who thought that their customers would be forever loyal and they didn't have to adjust with the times.

So there remain only one or two buggy factories building the few used as tourist attractions and for special celebrations or exhibits instead of the many hundreds that existed before the automobile made them obsolete.  Should we hate the big three for putting all those carriage, buggy whip, and wagon manufacturers, and all the businesses who supplied parts for them, out of business?   How about modern refrigeration shutting down thousands of ice plants that made and delivered the big blocks of ice used in old fashioned ice boxes?   And each city has only one or two great bakeries supplying custom cakes and confections instead of the dozens or hundreds that existed before modern automation could turn out Twinkies and Oreos by the tens of thousands in a fraction of the time and at a cheaper cost and the big grocery stores filled the needs of most for fresh baked goods

For better or worse the world doesn't stand still for us.

Wal-mart recognized and adjusted to the trend, but it isn't Wal-mart's fault that it is so.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 19, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Oh I know, but just as computers and e-mail have displaced the pleasure of actually receiving a hand written letter from a loved one, and Facebook and other modern phenomena have too often replaced getting together with friends just to be together, there are many pleasures that exist only in nostalgia these days.  But it is hard to let them go.
> 
> I grew up in small towns where you knew every shop owner, and you would visit almost all of them before your Christmas shopping and preparations were done.  And it was a pure joy and social experience.  There was an intimacy and human touch that will never be matched by an impersonal big box store however much we appreciate the one stop shopping.   So shopping isn't the pleasant social experience it once was.  And the older I get, the more distant I feel from most of the hundreds of people who live near me.   And all that comes with a sense of loss.
> 
> But that still isn't Wal-marts fault.



The sad thing is that even the human interaction of big box stores is at end of life. Amazon is the future, web browsing where you never talk to another human. 

The lefties will hate on Amazon the way they do Walmart, and they along with us, will still shop with them. The era of brick and mortar is quickly coming to a close.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 19, 2012)

freedombecki said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> > Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> ...


I would not worry too much about this person. She is a flyspeck in a long line of complaining flyspecks.
Huffpo is full of shit. 
They are the only ones even giving this a look. It's nonsense.
It would come as no surprise that union thugs frustrated they cannot organize Walmart workers are the ones behind this.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 19, 2012)

spectrumc01 said:


> Wow.  Wal mart is the number one killer of small business in America no matter what anyone says.  There is no way local small businsess can compete with Wal Marts low prices.  We got Wal Mart and within a year main street was 50% vacant. Chineese products killing American small business in the womb.  Yet they want us to think it's Obama care.  They say that small business needs all the breaks they can get, and the way that the US government backs big business over small business I can agree.  Large business, with their bought and paid for politicians, kill off  their competition through over regulation every day.  Talk about saving American small business than go shop at Wal Mart, it just doesn't sound right.  Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, our choices our being taken away.  No monopolies but how many cable tv options do you have?  ever tried to change electric companies?
> 
> Do I shop at Wal Mart? yes.
> Do I like it? no.
> ...


Hmmmm. There is a hardware store which is sort of like a general store right in town, two miles from the nearest Walmart. There is a Lowes 4 miles away and another Lowes and a Home Depot 6 miles away. That hardware store is always busy. I can get stuff there that none of the other stores sell.


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## Dreamy (Nov 19, 2012)

I do shop at Walmart sometimes but much prefer Mom and Pop local stores whenever possible or online more often. I love the personal attention one gets at locally run businesses but sadly there are not enough. 

I also support the right to unionize and do support good unions. I despise greed from unions and corporation equally.


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## HUGGY (Nov 19, 2012)

My oh my...  How did we ever get by without Walmarts in the past? And all those great minimum wage jobs where ya can get free health care at you local emergency enterance at the hospital.  Ya Walmart would sure be missed....

I just don't underget how I ever got this far in 63 years without a single Walmart purchase... I am sadly lacking in Chinese crap..  I feel ashamed...


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## Dreamy (Nov 19, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> My oh my... How did we ever get by without Walmarts in the past? And all those great minimum wage jobs where ya can get free health care at you local emergency enterance at the hospital. Ya Walmart would sure be missed....
> 
> I just don't underget how I ever got this far in 63 years without a single Walmart purchase... I am sadly lacking in Chinese crap.. I feel ashamed...


 
Why ashamed?

Walmart is not the only chain selling the Chinese crap.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 19, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow.  Wal mart is the number one killer of small business in America no matter what anyone says.  There is no way local small businsess can compete with Wal Marts low prices.  We got Wal Mart and within a year main street was 50% vacant. Chineese products killing American small business in the womb.  Yet they want us to think it's Obama care.  They say that small business needs all the breaks they can get, and the way that the US government backs big business over small business I can agree.  Large business, with their bought and paid for politicians, kill off  their competition through over regulation every day.  Talk about saving American small business than go shop at Wal Mart, it just doesn't sound right.  Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, our choices our being taken away.  No monopolies but how many cable tv options do you have?  ever tried to change electric companies?
> ...



Yes, there is a hardware store out on North 14 that was near where we lived when we were out on the mountain.  It was 12 to 20 miles to nearest big box store in Albuquerque, so the hardware store thrived.  We wouldn't drive all the way into town to buy a few bolts or picture hangers or light bulbs or nails or a can of paint.  But we WOULD drive into Albuquerque for a big ticket order like lumber to build a new shed or something like that.  So the hardware store specialized in all the stuff people usually needed in a hurry and carried a very limited inventory of the big ticket stuff.  And that store is still thriving so far as I know.  As I said, you have to adjust to the times and what your customers need.  They won't be loyal just because you've always been there.


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## Jarlaxle (Nov 19, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> > thanatos144 said:
> ...



Save-A-Lot is still around...I delivered to one last week.  So is Shop-N-Save.  (The others you mentioned never had stores in this area.)


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## Jarlaxle (Nov 19, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



And yet...Wal-Marts in this area *do not sell* Rubbermaid products.  They sell Sterilite.  It's not from China...all of it is made in Townsend, Massachusetts!


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 19, 2012)

spectrumc01 said:


> Wow.  Wal mart is the number one killer of small business in America no matter what anyone says.



perfectly liberal and so perfectly stupid. If we wanted to save small businesses we could just pass a law that no auto company could employ more than 100 people, no earth moving company could make anything with more capacity that a hand shovel, no bottling company could make more than 1000 cases a month, and no farmer could have more than an acre!!


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## JOSweetHeart (Nov 19, 2012)

Jarlaxle said:


> Save-A-Lot is still around.


My area has got that store. It is right by our local K-Mart. I've never been in it though so I don't know what brands of food that they carry.

God bless you always!!!   

Holly


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## Papageorgio (Nov 19, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > TheGreatGatsby said:
> ...



I never noticed a difference, but that was a few years ago. I try to find mom and pops first.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 19, 2012)

Jarlaxle said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > OohPooPahDoo said:
> ...



Yes the closest Wal-mart to us is a Super Center right next door to a large Smith's Grocery Store and both stores are thriving.   The closest large grocery store to us is an Albertson's about a mile from that same Wal-mart and and it is also thriving.


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## percysunshine (Nov 19, 2012)

Does the volume discount exist?

This is sort of a phillosophy question.


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## Misty (Nov 19, 2012)

I don't shop at walmart I think once and target maybe a few times before they mega targeted it. Target is 37 percent better. IMO


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## JoeB131 (Nov 20, 2012)

Amelia said:


> Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> 
> 
> Walmart's Internal Compensation Documents Reveal Systematic Limit On Advancement



I try to avoid it... but sometimes if I'm in a hurry, I do.


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## wavingrl (Nov 20, 2012)

Wal-Mart files legal complaint against growing protests ahead of Black Friday | Fox News


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## thanatos144 (Nov 20, 2012)

I say there is going to be some opening at wal-marts.....good deal my stepson needs a job.


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## catzmeow (Nov 20, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> The lefties will hate on Amazon the way they do Walmart, and they along with us, will still shop with them. The era of brick and mortar is quickly coming to a close.



I fucking love Amazon.com.  I love it almost as much as I love ebay.

But I hate walmart.  HATE IT.


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## thanatos144 (Nov 20, 2012)

catzmeow said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > The lefties will hate on Amazon the way they do Walmart, and they along with us, will still shop with them. The era of brick and mortar is quickly coming to a close.
> ...



Why ? They sell the same Chinese shit?


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## Koios (Nov 20, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> I say there is going to be some opening at wal-marts.....good deal my stepson needs a job.



Good luck to him.  It's easy to get a job there: fill out an application online and take the online pre-test.  Then if he scores sufficiently online, they'll group interview him.  If that goes well they make an offer, at a buck or two north of minimum wage, if he's lucky and a stronger than average candidate.

Then just sign off on the privacy waiver, so they can back check criminal history, credit scores and whatever else they wish to look into, while your stepson hightails it over to the clinic to get a drug-test.

Just a few easy steps and removal of all privacy rights for a shit-pay job.  Your stepson should be so lucky, and I have my fingers crossed he'll be stocking shelves soon.

Godbless the USA.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 20, 2012)

Koios said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > I say there is going to be some opening at wal-marts.....good deal my stepson needs a job.
> ...



I've had to have criminal background checks and drug tests to get a job it ain't no big deal.

If you don't want to submit to the screening then don't apply for the job. Simple right?


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## thanatos144 (Nov 20, 2012)

Koios said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > I say there is going to be some opening at wal-marts.....good deal my stepson needs a job.
> ...



So that's not different than any other way of getting hired.....Have you never had a job?


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## Katzndogz (Nov 20, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> Foxfyre said:
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Wal Mart does not fix bicycles, neither do they sell high end bicycles, nor do they have a great selection of bicycle accessories.   They don't sell good yarn either, just the cheapest.   They don't have lessons or knitters clubs.  Wal Mart absolutely does not permit customer designed jewelry.   The businesses that go under when Wal Mart opens cannot stay in business, at all, if they carry the same products at the same level of service and sell them for more money.    At the North Redondo Wal Mart there is a collection of small businesses.   There is a dry cleaner, Wal Mart has a dry cleaner.   There are several fast food joints.  Wall mart sells junk food.  There is a Michaels!   Wal Mart sells craft goods. 

How do these businesses stay in business right next to Wal Mart?   The businesses that go under when Wal Mart moves in deserve to go out of business.   They were overcharging and gave bad customer service before Wal Mart moved in.   All the customers needed was an excuse.


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## Koios (Nov 20, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> Koios said:
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Apparently.  Funny how what were once requirements for a security position with government or a large corporation, are now shit compared to what folks need to go through to get a near minimum wage job.

But maybe that's me, being older and having not filled out an application nor sent a resume to anyone in over 30 years of an executive-level career.  Six figure pay, and they treat you with some trust and respect.  Imagine that.

But it ain't all peaches and cream.  With more and more of our people being paid shit, or rendered unemployable for even "entry level" job, it's a sonofabitch to find customers to buy the shit we sell, albeit only in the US.  Foreign markets are filling the void nicely, so I can still buy $100 ties.  Yippee for me.  And fuck Americans if they cannot rise from poverty to the board room.  Laissez-faire free markets are the cat's fucking pajamas.

Yeah, pal?


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Nosmo King said:
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Exactly.

The big stores can't do a lot of things very well.

For example, I buy dimension lumber from Lowes or the Depot but they don't carry a selection of high grade woods for projects or finish work.  I have a guy who specializes in the most beautiful hardwoods and he's doing great. 

In fact I just ordered  2 in thick slab maple that I'm using for a bar top.  You can't get that at a box store.

There are plenty of niches in the market to fill


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 20, 2012)

Koios said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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How many people have actually risen from poverty to the board room as you say?

My guess is not too many so using that as a yardstick is silly.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 20, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> Koios said:
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I did.   Do you want to know what it really takes?  I'll be happy to tell you.


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## Koios (Nov 20, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> Koios said:
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Like you, I'd hazzard a guess that it's damn few, and getting more unlikely all the time.

Meanwhile, how are you at picking up on irony?  None too quickly?  That's my guess.


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## thanatos144 (Nov 20, 2012)

Koios said:


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They have to have a criminal background check cause they might be working with money.....You truly are a paranoid idiot.


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## thanatos144 (Nov 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


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Mattress mambo?  LOL


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## Katzndogz (Nov 20, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> Katzndogz said:
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My framer is in direct competition with JoAnns, Michaels, Aaron Bros and Fast Frame.  He's so busy that I have to wait two, sometimes three weeks to get a painting framed and pay twice what I would pay at one of the others.

When Petco opened a grooming shop a block from me, I didn't lose any business and actually gained a little. 

There was a small mom and pop failing grocery within walking distance of a Ralphs Superstore.   The owners sold out of the failing business before Ralphs crushed it completely.   The new owners had a son recently graduated from business school who turned it around in six months into a crowded bustling store.

No one can stay in business selling the same stuff as Wal Mart but charging more for it and provide the lowest level of customer service.   It's impossible.   The business has to change if it can't, it goes under.


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## Dreamy (Nov 20, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


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> There are plenty of niches in the market to fill



Definitely. My little town is rich with small local business. I know that I love knowing the owners personally and getting treated like a friend when I shop. I have several local businesses that are that way in my town. My town is very quaint and thrives on foot traffic partly because of its location to the ocean. 

A garden shop
A tailor
A butcher
Several clothing stores
Craft stores
Book store
Shoe store
Toy store
Jewelry store
Spas


I don't see them ever competing with the huge box stores but they are doing quite well.


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## Koios (Nov 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


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Nah; anyone can do it, if you or I can.

Simple.  Be born with average to good looks, since homely gets less attention.  Then a high IQ helps, so the inspiration that good public school teacher gives you ain't wasted.  Scholarships and government Pell Grants cover some of the expense, and then some spunkiness and wit gets you some good bux tending bar at night, and some ass along the way.

From there it's cake.  Be a superstar and rapidly rise through the corporate ranks to VP level, and gain some biz celebrity or be on point in a great acquisition and you're a lock for a position on the board of the newly acquired entity, in Europe, so you can see the Continent on the company's nickel any time, even bringing the SO with you and showing her how nice it is to mess up 600 thread-count sheets with a sweeping view of London, with no clean up after.

It couldn't be easier.  Yeah?   Or was your path harder?  Do tell.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 20, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> So that's not different than any other way of getting hired.....Have you never had a job?



Stupid question bro - entitlement junkies are the core of the Obamabots.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 20, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


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That's the liberal way.

I started out cleaning a law office and scrubbing their toilets.   I went to school and worked up to library attendant.    I took secretarial courses to learn to type and became a receptionist.  When I could type well enough.  I got another job with another law firm as a secretary.   I stayed in school taking paralegal courses and moved into paralegal.   As soon as I was established as a paralegal I went to law school.  Then I opened my own law office and had people working for me.

Liberals prefer to rely on mattress mambo because they recoil from sacrifice and hard work.    Think of all the things I could have bought with the money I spent on school, books, seminars.  I could have worn $200.00 Nike shoes and supported a drug dealer had I not made those choices.    This is what libs hate, more than anything.   If I were a lib, I'd be cleaning toilets and DEMANDING the law degree.


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## Koios (Nov 20, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Koios said:
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And you're a big poopyhead.  So there!

(read: Do you fall down much, buddy?)


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## Katzndogz (Nov 20, 2012)

I never took a single dime of government money.   I paid my own way every step of the way.


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## thanatos144 (Nov 20, 2012)

Koios said:


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Unlike you I know how to tie my shoes.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> I never took a single dime of government money.   I paid my own way every step of the way.



I applied for unemployment one time many MANY years ago when we arrived in a small town--hubby was transferred a lot in those days--and there wasn't a single job listed in the local newspaper and nobody seemed to be hiring.  I just wanted a job if they had any listed, and they sort of insisted I file.  Then you had to wait two weeks to receive your first unemployment check and you had to be actively looking for work.  So I did manage to find a job that started the Monday of the third week and I was happy to report that to the unemployment office and that I didn't need unemployment after all.  They sent me a check for the two weeks I was off work anyway.

Other than that, even though I qualified for government subsidies from time to time, I have never received a freebie of any kind from the government and didn't want any.

The Wal-marts of the world offer jobs to people who want those jobs.  They don't force anybody to work for them and there's just a whole bunch of folks who enjoy their jobs there--some as a transitional job--some as a career.  I would love to be a fly on the wall in places where some seem to be scheming on how to bring Wal-mart down.  And the only reason I can think of they would want to do that is for their own selfish interests.

Since the election, however, the unions have been applying much more extreme pressure on work forces to unionize.  Just now watching a demonstration re whether the court will require Wal-mart to unionize.  If they do,  another part of Americana will be lost.


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## Luddly Neddite (Nov 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> I never took a single dime of government money.   I paid my own way every step of the way.



Gee, I really admire you. 

There is nothing that you do not currently do for a living. 

You could go to work for Gramps' imaginary business.


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## thanatos144 (Nov 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> I never took a single dime of government money.   I paid my own way every step of the way.



I cant say the same....As a child my famliy lived in our car. I dont want any government help now but I cant say I have never taken it....Funny thing is my mom got off of the government tit in spite of them and not with their help.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 20, 2012)

Koios said:


> Apparently.  Funny how what were once requirements for a security position with government or a large corporation, are now shit compared to what folks need to go through to get a near minimum wage job.
> 
> But maybe that's me, being older and having not filled out an application nor sent a resume to anyone in over 30 years of an executive-level career.  Six figure pay, and they treat you with some trust and respect.  Imagine that.



Yeah, bullshit.

Sorry, but if you held an executive position, you'd know exactly why background checks are conducted. Employers have always wanted to know the background of potential hires, the thing that has changed is the ability to do so with ZabbaSearch and other tools. Hiring and employee is an expensive and time consuming process, which any executive knows.  When I hire a person, I do EVERYTHING possible to ensure they are the right person for the job. I can gauge intellect and technical knowledge through the interview, but integrity and baggage require a background check, which ANY executive would know.



> But it ain't all peaches and cream.  With more and more of our people being paid shit, or rendered unemployable for even "entry level" job, it's a sonofabitch to find customers to buy the shit we sell, albeit only in the US.  Foreign markets are filling the void nicely, so I can still buy $100 ties.  Yippee for me.  And fuck Americans if they cannot rise from poverty to the board room.  Laissez-faire free markets are the cat's fucking pajamas.
> 
> Yeah, pal?



Sure, I believe every word you write..


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 20, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> They have to have a criminal background check cause they might be working with money.....You truly are a paranoid idiot.



More likely he has a felony record.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
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> > Koios said:
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You didn't answer the question.

And I chose to work for myself rather than someone else so you don't have to lecture me about what it takes.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 20, 2012)

Koios said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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I don't work in a board room but I do own my own business. And FYI anyone can work for themselves.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 20, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > I never took a single dime of government money.   I paid my own way every step of the way.
> ...



I've never taken unemployment either.   When I was a child there was no such thing as government help.  No welfare, WIC, Medicaid, food stamps, HUD housing, Section 8, obamaphones, nothing.   There was general relief but to get on general relief, the social worker would take anything of value that you had and sell it in the second hand store so the state could get some of their money back.

We didn't live in a car.  We didn't have a car.  We lived on the streets of New York when we weren't hitch hiking and riding box cars up and down the eastern seaboard.   That went on until a good samaritan turned my parents into the authorities and I was taken away and sent to live with an aunt until my parents got their act together.  My step dad had to get a job.   Had there been a government tit, they would have sucked off it forever.    As it was, my parents believed they were living lives of pure, unadulterated, freedom.   No greedy landlord, no boss telling them what to do,  no one to please or satisfy.   Go where they wanted to go, do only what they wanted to do.    They felt they were "bohemians".  In fact, they were more like the first occupiers looking for a Zucotti Park.


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## Koios (Nov 20, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Apparently.  Funny how what were once requirements for a security position with government or a large corporation, are now shit compared to what folks need to go through to get a near minimum wage job.
> ...



Well let's see, shall we?

Because they can, and think it's the shorter path to employees they need not fear, as much.  The rising hardship resulting from business lobbying success, might be creating some meaness out there.  Folks might steal from us.  Plus HR depts, too, like the sense they're needed and doing good work.

What makes it possible is the business nirvana that exists currently.  No shit.  It's corporate fucking heaven right now.  It only seems sucky, since for average workers, it sucks serious fucking ass.  But corporations are enjoying record profits, and near historically-low taxes on that profit.  Also, they can be selective as hell in who they hire, what with unemployment so high, praise babyjesus.  

So workers willl jump through hoops to get the job, and take any starting salary they're offered.  Also, the folks already with keycards, are hoping they keep theirs, and are thus loathe to demand a raise.  Just hang in there and pray the COLA raises of years past do not evaporate, which they have been, what with the labor market so biz-friendly (fuckit that profits are at record highs). So, why spend the dough?  Report the higher profits and let our stock options turn to diamond-studded fucking gold.

But I digress.  Simple: workers and the American people are mere commodities.  Pay em what we have to, and drive their wages down wherever possible. Shift tax burden onto individuals and not corporations.  Keep unemployment high by encouraging low wage minimums, no overtime pay requirements, and clever new businesses that sell our employees ways to fund their own retirements and healthcare. And if workers are lower paid, and their savings are gone, *make credit available*.  That'll keep the great unwashed in stores and buying shit, for a while, anyway.  Then find other markets we can exploit.

How'd I do?


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## Luddly Neddite (Nov 20, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > I never took a single dime of government money.   I paid my own way every step of the way.
> ...



Are you a big fan of Craig T. Nelson? He said the same thing - that the government helped him but didn't help him. Make up your mind.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTwpBLzxe4U]Craig T. Nelson on Government Aid - YouTube[/ame]

Both Nelson and your mother got back on their feet with the help of the government. Nothing wrong with that. Actually, I admire it. But don't pretend that the govt didn't help you.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 20, 2012)

And while I don't see what any of that has to do with Wal-mart, it should not be Wal-marts duty to make the poor unpoor.  Like many of you, I started out with nothing but an education and a willingness to work for what I had.  I financed my time in college by working at whatever I could get and accepted a lot of grundgy jobs.  I would have been thrilled with a part time job at Wal-mart if there had been one back then.

Hubby and I had five jobs between us when we got married, and due to circumstances beyond our control lost four of them the first year.  Times were tough and there was a lot more week than paycheck most weeks.   But in those days there weren't government giveaways to help, so we dug ourselves out.  We earned our credentials for better jobs along the way--he moved slowly up the ranks in his career and I took whatever I could get when I could get it--and eventually we utilized what we had learned in our own business.  We never worked for a union shop.  And we took no government subsides except for that two week unemplyment check they insisted on sending even after I told them I didn't need it.

The American dream may not actually be a fancy car, yacht, Country Club membership, and a mansion, but it is still there for those who are willing to work for it.  And millions, and I do mean millions, of us worked our way out of poverty back then.  There were lots and lots of 'Wal-mart' kinds of jobs to help us do it and we were glad to get them.

There is much less incentive to do so when the government makes people comfortable in poverty.  And apparently the folks working at Wal-mart don't consider themselves to be among that group.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 20, 2012)

P.S.  I don't fault those who accept available government aid and kudos to those who have worked their way up from the bottom.  I do fault those who choose to live off the government and make no effort to work their way up.


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## Koios (Nov 20, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> P.S.  I don't fault those who accept available government aid and kudos to those who have worked their way up from the bottom.  I do fault those who choose to live off the government and make no effort to work their way up.



Worry not.  Ron Paul is leaving his cushy guvmint job where all he had to do was whine about his employer.

Brighter days ahead.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 20, 2012)

Koios said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > P.S.  I don't fault those who accept available government aid and kudos to those who have worked their way up from the bottom.  I do fault those who choose to live off the government and make no effort to work their way up.
> ...



Thank you for totally missing the point being made.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Nov 20, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Koios said:
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The inept post isn't a complete loss. I found another idiot to put on my ever growing ignore list.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 20, 2012)

Koios said:


> Well let's see, shall we?
> 
> Because they can, and think it's the shorter path to employees they need not fear, as much.



Just in case ANYONE believed a word of your bullshit about being an executive....

I don't "fear" my employees, I recognize the liability they represent. Any businessman does, executive or business owner. If I hire the wrong person, I incur wasted time training them, and possible repercussions when I fire them. Just because someone has a criminal record doesn't mean I won't hire them, but they will have to explain to me what happened.



> The rising hardship resulting from business lobbying success, might be creating some meaness out there.  Folks might steal from us.  Plus HR depts, too, like the sense they're needed and doing good work.



You're either a communist, opps *community* organizer, or a Union pimp. You're no executive.



> What makes it possible is the business nirvana that exists currently.  No shit.



What makes it possible is the internet, shit fer brains.



> It's corporate fucking heaven right now.  It only seems sucky, since for average workers, it sucks serious fucking ass.  But corporations are enjoying record profits, and near historically-low taxes on that profit.



So, you're one of those "executives" who hates profits, then?

ROFL - frauds are so easy...



> Also, they can be selective as hell in who they hire, what with unemployment so high, praise babyjesus.



Bodies are not equal to qualified people.



> So workers willl jump through hoops to get the job, and take any starting salary they're offered.



Really? Kool - I'm bringing on a new cost accountant - I'll let her know that I don't have to pay her the $80k she asked for, some troll on the internet said she would take any salary I offer. I'll offer $10K



> also, the folks already with keycards, are hoping they keep theirs, and are thus loathe to demand a raise.  Just hang in there and pray the COLA raises of years past do not evaporate,



Ah, so you ARE a union thug - COLA is not used outside of unions.



> which they have been, what with the labor market so biz-friendly (fuckit that profits are at record highs). So, why spend the dough?  Report the higher profits and let our stock options turn to diamond-studded fucking gold.



So why did you lie about being an executive? Do you think you appear more credible if people believed you?



> But I digress.  Simple: workers and the American people are mere commodities.  Pay em what we have to, and drive their wages down wherever possible. Shift tax burden onto individuals and not corporations.



You have little education, that is clear. Tell me, why should corporations be taxed at all? If I buy stock in Apple, and they pay me a dividend, I have to pay taxes on it - why should the same money be double taxed? Either eliminate corporate taxes or capital gains - double dipping is anti-American. (But favored by communists,)



> Keep unemployment high by encouraging low wage minimums,



That is contradictory - when wages fall, employment numbers rise. 



> no overtime pay requirements,



Really comrade? I hadn't heard that overtime was abolished. Do you have a link?



> and clever new businesses that sell our employees ways to fund their own retirements and healthcare. And if workers are lower paid, and their savings are gone, *make credit available*.  That'll keep the great unwashed in stores and buying shit, for a while, anyway.  Then find other markets we can exploit.



You know comrade, virtually every 401K I've been exposed to has a matching component.



> How'd I do?



You proved that you've never held an executive position and have very little education. I assume you come from construction and are higher up in the union.


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## Koios (Nov 20, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Koios said:
> 
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Nah; I got it.  

The thing is, we all depend on government, none more so than businesses.  Schools, largely funded by home owners, educate our work force.  Roads and transit bring our workers to and from the jobsite, our products to market, and customer to our doorstep.  Food assitance keep folks coming into our grocery stores.  Gravy abounds, if you're paying attention, which the more successful companies do, religiously.


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## Koios (Nov 20, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Well let's see, shall we?
> ...



Not a shocker.  While I hate to rain on your parade, the righty nonsense blinding you is nothing new, and I've heard it from many before.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 20, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> Katzndogz said:
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I did answer the question, did you miss it?


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## Foxfyre (Nov 20, 2012)

Koios said:


> Foxfyre said:
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You are confusing social contract with government assistance.  And I'm not going to take the time to educate you about that because somehow I don't think you would be open to the lesson.  But Benjamin Franklin summed up what the core principle should be:  we should be focused on leading or driving people out of poverty rather than encouraging it by making people comfortable in it.

And refocusing on Wal-mart, a lot of folks would have a hard time supporting a family on entry level  Wal-mart wages.  But a job at Wal-mart does pay a wage commensurate with the education and skill level required to do the work and it gives tens of thousands of folks an opportunity to acquire a work ethic, experience, marketable skills, and references for greater things.  And tens of thousands enjoy working at Wal-mart enough to stay and make it their career.

Again, I simply don't understand a mentality that finds that something to criticize and attack.


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## wavingrl (Nov 20, 2012)

I hadn't been to Walmart since the 2nd week in September--50 % off on solar lights. That weekend I went to two one 15 minutes from my house the other a 30 minute expressway trip. Smooth sailing--I got what I wanted for the price I wanted and left--no problems.

Today I wanted a 5 Guys Hamburger located in the Walmart shopping center. Traffic was incredible --someone was pulling out of a space in front of 5 Guys--that was good. I got the hamburger and left---long line sitting/waiting ----I started to back up. A jerk in a little white T-shirt was walking behind the cars---screamed at me and I screamed back. 'What did you call me?'  I said the bad words again-so he said a few to me. My dog began barking hysterically--16lbs lbs but very protective of the car and me. Rolled up the window --he would not stop harassing me. 

Walmart shoppers are diverse. I don't care for that particular model. Lots of Hispanics shop there--the International Corridor/Chamblee is minutes away. Sometimes when you pull in the police cars are there---taking people away. At this Walmart customers aren't allowed to check themselves out. You must drive 30-45 minutes north on the expressway to reach a Walmart that allows self check-out. 

Do I plan to hurry back to the closest Walmart?  The chances are real good that they will not see me at all this year. Let the Jerk provide economic support. If you cannot handle the responsibilities of a pedestrian then just stay home. Walk between cars in a parking lot at your own peril---once children were taught this. I can only assume that he has 'challenges'--makes many poor decisions?


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## Koios (Nov 20, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Koios said:
> 
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Gotcha.  Then I won't waste time trying to help you understand, and beg you helping me understand.

What social contract?

What about Franklin appeals to you beyond well-grounded structures that are not burned down by lightning strikes, discovering the gulf stream, etc.?

What happens when companies who depend on customers with living wages, as Walmart, Home Depot, etc. do, and who employ an increasing percentage of our workforce, pay sub-living wages?  Parasites that exploit a market and diminish it?  Or something else?


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 20, 2012)

Koios said:


> Not a shocker.  While I hate to rain on your parade, the righty nonsense blinding you is nothing new, and I've heard it from many before.



You hear it every time you lie about being an executive?


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## Foxfyre (Nov 20, 2012)

Koios said:


> Foxfyre said:
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Nobody forces anybody to work at Wal-mart.  I presume those who do work there chose to work there and wanted the job.  It is because of businesses like Wal-mart who do what is necessary to keep prices affordable that allows people like the people who work for Wal-mart to afford some of the gpod things of life.

And the fact that you ask 'what social contract' says to me that you don't understand the difference between social contract and government subsidy.   Companies like Wal-mart do understand that.  Probably most of the folks who work at Wal-mart do too.   Only those who exalt and revere government chose not to understand that or blow it off as irrelevent.

Statiss who put all their faith in the king/government to take care of all their needs and some of their wants will always resent companies like Wal-mart and will try to destroy them to make people even more dependent on government.   Only commerce and industry who behavve as they think government should behave are acceptable and praiseworthy.  But God help us when they finally manage to destroy the Wal-mart concept and force us all to live under governnment generosity.   That hasn't worked out well for anybody but top government dictators and their henchmen anywhere it has been tried.


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## Koios (Nov 20, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Not a shocker.  While I hate to rain on your parade, the righty nonsense blinding you is nothing new, and I've heard it from many before.
> ...



Not exclusively; in fact, only on rare occassions do I mention it.

Generally, knowledge of business processes clues-in folks who are somewhat objective.  Care to test me?  If so, ask away.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 20, 2012)

Koios said:


> Not exclusively; in fact, only on rare occassions do I mention it.
> 
> Generally, knowledge of business processes clues-in folks who are somewhat objective.  Care to test me?  If so, ask away.



No need to test you, you're a union goon. You fool no one. You don't give a shit about Walmart workers, you seek to increase the monopoly power of the unions. You're a parasite.


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## Koios (Nov 20, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Try to stay with me (and you).  I'm still wondering about that social contract.  It's anything that is not a government subsidy?  Or do you have some specifics on it?

And yes; I understand that employment is a voluntary thing, since outlawing indentured servitude.  No need to go into depth there.

And any thoughts you might have on the other questions, greatly appreciated, but also voluntary, obviously.


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## Koios (Nov 20, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Not exclusively; in fact, only on rare occassions do I mention it.
> ...



C'mon; don't sell yourself short.  You can do it.  Perhaps general accounting questions? Or maybe steps involved in acquiring other companies, with some detail on the due diligence process? Or is that pitching underhand?  You got something real tricky, maybe?  Or perhaps your "Cost Accountant" does?


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## GHook93 (Nov 20, 2012)

Amelia said:


> Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> 
> 
> Walmart's Internal Compensation Documents Reveal Systematic Limit On Advancement



I would shop at Walmart I just don't. Target is right around the corner from me and I prefer target.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



I asked how many and you answered, "I did"

So was i to take that only you made it?


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## Ernie S. (Nov 20, 2012)

wavingrl said:


> I hadn't been to Walmart since the 2nd week in September--50 % off on solar lights. That weekend I went to two one 15 minutes from my house the other a 30 minute expressway trip. Smooth sailing--I got what I wanted for the price I wanted and left--no problems.
> 
> Today I wanted a 5 Guys Hamburger located in the Walmart shopping center. Traffic was incredible --someone was pulling out of a space in front of 5 Guys--that was good. I got the hamburger and left---long line sitting/waiting ----I started to back up. A jerk in a little white T-shirt was walking behind the cars---screamed at me and I screamed back. 'What did you call me?'  I said the bad words again-so he said a few to me. My dog began barking hysterically--16lbs lbs but very protective of the car and me. Rolled up the window --he would not stop harassing me.
> 
> ...



He may have been an idiot for walking where he did, but you were an idiot for not watching for a pedestrian. They do have the right of way, you know...
Then you compound your idiocy by cussing at him, thereby escalating the situation into something that could have resulted in physical violence. 
I don't see why this would cause you to not shop at Wal-Mart, unless perhaps, you are too embarrassed to be seen there after your performance today.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 20, 2012)

GHook93 said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> > Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> ...



And that is why Target is in business.  They provide products and a shopping experience that some people enjoy and prefer to other shopping experiences.  That is why Wal-mart is in business.  They provide products and a shopping experience that other people enjoy and prefer to other shopping experiences.  I don't go to Sears if I can get what I want at Wal-mart because I am more likely to be in Wal-mart in the first place--I don't visit either more than a very few times each year--but if I can't find what I want at Wal-mart I go to Sears.  I don't trade at Target much ever since they banned the Salvation Army bell ringers, but I wouldn't not go there if they have what I need and nobody else does.

The reason the mom and pop stores go out of business when the big box stores come in is because the people prefer shopping at the big box stores either for quantity, selection, convenience or price.   If they did not, the big box stores wouldn't affect the mom and pop stores.

American retailing has been changing with the times, products available, and public needs, wants, and prefereces since the first Americans began coming here.  One day we probably won't have mom and pop stores and will have all big box stores.

And then some entreprenour will open a little shop that offers a warm smile, personal attention, savvy employees who go the extra mile to provide expert information and counsel and a custom touch, and voila.  A whole new American enterprise will be born:  the mom and pop specialty store!


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## Ernie S. (Nov 20, 2012)

Koios said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



If Wal-Mart paid what you consider a fair wage, you couldn't afford to shop there.


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## Koios (Nov 20, 2012)

Ernie S. said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Why?  What's the labor-cost factor in Walmart's minimum margin calculation?  And if that were double, the precentage rise in the end-user price?  Do you know, or even have educated guess?

Or is it easier to simply look at times the FMW was increased signficantly? (=/> 30%) and; then overall effect on inflation, if any at all?  (tip: inflation has increased about as often as it decreased, when the FMW goes up significantly; ergo, no effect, or an effect so minimal as to be eclipsed by the main driving factors in inflation, i.e. commodity prices and monetary policy.)


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 20, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...


Once again, you have demonstrated that Mr Foxfyre is a very smart man


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 20, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...


For the record, the first anti Walmart story I read which was probably 20 years ago, dealt with Walmart's decision to cut out the product distributors. Previously, all retailers went through distributors( the middle man ,if you will) to buy their merchandise. Walmart revolutionized retailing by going directly to the manufacturers to buy merchandise.
Of course this brought howls of protest from distributors and other retailers.
Walmart's approach was " we are going to be the world's largest retailer. If you want your stuff on our shelves, you will sell it to us directly."....And that was the end of the "middle man" in discount retailing.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 20, 2012)

Koios said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > I say there is going to be some opening at wal-marts.....good deal my stepson needs a job.
> ...


Oh stop whining. Employers have a vested interest in  screening out the dregs.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 20, 2012)

Koios said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...


I think you have had a meltdown.
Oh, would you mind not posting run on sentences. Thanks.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 20, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



Interesting side note....Home Depot in an attempt to bring Contractor business to their stores, bought some larger plumbing and electrical supply companies. The venture has not gone well. The costs were such that HD could not get back their investment.
So they have sold off some of those. I think HD Corporate has spun off the "HD Supply" portion of their business.
NEWS
Home Depot shares move amid reports of supply sale
August 27, 2007 | Jennifer Waters
CHICAGO (MarketWatch) -- Shares of Home Depot Inc. moved higher in pre-market trading Monday amid published reports that the home-improvement giant will sell its supply division to three private-equity firms. A Home Depot spokeswoman would not comment on the reports that Home Depot Supply will be sold for $8.5 billion, about 18% less that when the deal was first made in June. Shares of Home Depot (US:HD) were moving higher by 2% at $34.68.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 20, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> > thanatos144 said:
> ...



My brother worked for both.  I can assure you that, at least in my area, they pay basically the same.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> > thanatos144 said:
> ...



Perhaps because THEY can be fired for behaving badly.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 20, 2012)

Koios said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...


The concept of "living wage" is a myth perpetuated by labor organizations.
Union wages index their wage demands to the minimum wage plus the prevailing market wage. So, if the min wage is increased, unions will demand higher wages for their members. Very slick.
Pay is based on value of the work being performed and the skill level required to do the work in concert with the cost of that labor.
Very simple concept.
If one believes this "living wage" calculator Living Wage Calculator - Living Wage Calculation for Los Angeles County, California, the living wage for a worker in Los Angeles County should be $17 per hour(two adults in one household). Do you believe a convenience store clerk should be paid that hourly wage?


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 20, 2012)

Koios said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...


Labor has always been a commodity. 
Not the individual people, but the cost of labor.


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## Plasmaball (Nov 20, 2012)

yup, its where i get all my pinata's.


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## Koios (Nov 21, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Nope; it stopped being that when we enacted the Federal Minimum Wage and other labor regs.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 21, 2012)

All minimum wage did was change the cost of labor and add some additional dynamics.  Labor is still a commodity as much as any other cost of doing business and any business person who is at all competent must factor in the cost of labor including payroll taxes, labor based insurance costs, costs of training, benefits, and all other costs related to labor when he or she fixes his/her prices.  It is a buyers market for the employer when the economy is crappy and unemployment is high and he/she can be much more picky about who gets hired and the workers have much less option about where then can work and what their earnings and benefits will be.   It is a sellers market for the worker when the economy is good and there is full employment--he/she has much more option to sell his/her labor the highest bidder.

Wal-mart is no different than the mom and pop store when setting wages and benefits and calculating how to manage these to maximize profits.  And do not think the mom and pop store is any more noble or magnanimous in being willing to pay more than it has to in order to follow a business plan and meet goals.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 21, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



People should consider that that lifestyle isn't dying out because WalMart came along and killed it, but because people rejected it and demanded that there be stores like WalMart instead.

It's like blaming huge suburban supermarkets for killing the A & P, simply because they appeared around the time A & P went out of business.  It wasn't their fault; it was the people who wanted to move away from urban areas into the suburbs, and demanded stores that fit with their new lifestyles.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 21, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



Not only that, but no one wants to spend all their time eyeballing their employees to make sure their merchandise isn't walking out the back door.  If employees are trusted less these days, don't blame the employers; blame the past employees who proved that people can't be trusted.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 21, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



Yep.  And blame all of us who have demanded those big box stores that come with work forces that aren't personal friends and family of the proprietors and therefore the probability of employee theft is far more likely.   And blame a litigious society--one that didn't exist all that long ago--in which hundreds and thousands of hungry attorneys are just itching to get their hands on a civil rights suit.   Used to be an employer could easily get rid of the dishonest or substandard employee.  Now not so much.  Most especially if the employee is one of the more protected groups.


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## Spoonman (Nov 21, 2012)

sometimes,  but only for the fashion.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 21, 2012)

Spoonman said:


> sometimes,  but only for the fashion.



LOL!

I used to get clothes at Wal Mart. Then I realized that it was cheaper for my to buy more expensive clothing somewhere else because the durability of the clothes at Wal-Mart is practically non-existent. A $50 pair of pants that lasts 5 years is cheaper than a $10 pair that lasts 6 months.


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## Koios (Nov 21, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> All minimum wage did was change the cost of labor and add some additional dynamics.  Labor is still a commodity as much as any other cost of doing business and any business person who is at all competent must factor in the cost of labor including payroll taxes, labor based insurance costs, costs of training, benefits, and all other costs related to labor when he or she fixes his/her prices.  It is a buyers market for the employer when the economy is crappy and unemployment is high and he/she can be much more picky about who gets hired and the workers have much less option about where then can work and what their earnings and benefits will be.   It is a sellers market for the worker when the economy is good and there is full employment--he/she has much more option to sell his/her labor the highest bidder.
> 
> Wal-mart is no different than the mom and pop store when setting wages and benefits and calculating how to manage these to maximize profits.  And do not think the mom and pop store is any more noble or magnanimous in being willing to pay more than it has to in order to follow a business plan and meet goals.



What other commodities have price minimums? Or requirements such as matching payroll taxes, meeting safety and health requirements, mandatory break periods and so on down the line? 

The American people are not a commodity no matter who wishes they were. And efforts to commoditize workers merely makes America more South American-like, which hurts both workers and businesses, while making the country less secure.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 21, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> > sometimes,  but only for the fashion.
> ...



This is true.  Wal-mart doesn't carry much high end stuff when it comes to clothing.   However, for every day underwear, hoisery, every day sweat shirts and tees and such, Wal-mart has some great bargains.  These days money is tighter  for us now that we're retired and pretty much on a fixed budget, so saving a few bucks on stuff that we have to have but doesn't need to be fancy or high end makes Wal-mart and stores like it much appreciated.


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## PredFan (Nov 21, 2012)

I haven't been but depending on the outcome of this friday, I might.

If Walmart caves in to the greedy union thugs, I won't ever shop there again. If they stand their ground, I will do as much of my shopping there as I can.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 21, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> > sometimes,  but only for the fashion.
> ...



Wal Mart isn't known for their quality.   Buying clothing from Wal Mart expecting durability just makes you rather silly.   There are things to spend money on and things not to spend money on.   Wal Mart is good for children's clothing.   Wal Mart clothing will last just long enough for the kid to grow out of them.  Buy some very trendy knock off that will last just long enough to reach the end of the trend.   Price is no substitute for wisdom.  I spent a fortune on a London Fog coat ten years ago.  It still looks brand new.  I figure the annual cost was $20.00 a year so far, and going down every year as the cost is amortized over the life of the coat and Wal Mart cannot beat that price.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Nov 21, 2012)

PredFan said:


> I haven't been but depending on the oucome of this friday, I might.
> 
> If Walmart caves in to the greedy union thugs, I won't ever shop there again. If they stand their ground, I will do as much of my shopping there as I can.



Wal Mart knows that if they cave, that they'll be creating a market they worked so hard to create. During WWII during rationing, a study showed that one of every four transactions was underground.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 21, 2012)

Koios said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > All minimum wage did was change the cost of labor and add some additional dynamics.  Labor is still a commodity as much as any other cost of doing business and any business person who is at all competent must factor in the cost of labor including payroll taxes, labor based insurance costs, costs of training, benefits, and all other costs related to labor when he or she fixes his/her prices.  It is a buyers market for the employer when the economy is crappy and unemployment is high and he/she can be much more picky about who gets hired and the workers have much less option about where then can work and what their earnings and benefits will be.   It is a sellers market for the worker when the economy is good and there is full employment--he/she has much more option to sell his/her labor the highest bidder.
> ...



You are having a hard time separating a concept of a person and a commodity aren't you.   The person is not the commodity.  The person's labor, that he sells for an agreed price, is.

And when the government sets a minimum for labor, the employer is obligated to pay it, but it also can affect the price of everything the employer sells to everybody including those who work for him/her.  And not only is the employer obligated to pay it, but so are all the folks who are his suppliers which also can affect the price every step of the way.....UNLESS.....he imports as much of his merchandise as he can and thereby bypass the minimum wage requirements.

And THAT is why higher minimum wages are great for those who get it, but has also cost Americans hundreds of thousands of good jobs that go overseas where artificial wages via minimum wage or unions are not a factor and where people are delighted to have the work at any wage.

Most of the folks who work at Wal-mart aren't making great money either, but most who work there are grateful for the jobs.   Make their labor higher than the market will bear, however, and many of those same folks will have no jobs at all.  And yet there are some who think that is a more righteous path than allowing the free market to set the wages.


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## Avatar4321 (Nov 21, 2012)

Occasionally. Nothing wrong with the store. They usually have good deals.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 21, 2012)

Koios said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > All minimum wage did was change the cost of labor and add some additional dynamics.  Labor is still a commodity as much as any other cost of doing business and any business person who is at all competent must factor in the cost of labor including payroll taxes, labor based insurance costs, costs of training, benefits, and all other costs related to labor when he or she fixes his/her prices.  It is a buyers market for the employer when the economy is crappy and unemployment is high and he/she can be much more picky about who gets hired and the workers have much less option about where then can work and what their earnings and benefits will be.   It is a sellers market for the worker when the economy is good and there is full employment--he/she has much more option to sell his/her labor the highest bidder.
> ...



Ahh, emotion-driven arguments.  We were so DESPERATELY in need of yet another purveyor of this illogical garbage.


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## Koios (Nov 21, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



The irony of that purely rhetorical horseshit reply is surely not lost on me. How about you?


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 21, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> And do not think the mom and pop store is any more noble or magnanimous in being willing to pay more than it has to in order to follow a business plan and meet goals.




very true which is why Wal Mart gets 5000 applications when it opens a new store


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## Foxfyre (Nov 21, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > And do not think the mom and pop store is any more noble or magnanimous in being willing to pay more than it has to in order to follow a business plan and meet goals.
> ...



Yep.  And every store receives dozens, probably hundreds of applications in the current crappy economy, every single week and enjoy an unusually loyal work force for a big box store.  I see the same folks at our local Wal-mart month after month, year after year, when some stores like Staples and Office Max seem to have a complete turnover every few months.   That tells me that Wal-mart has something commendable going for it.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 21, 2012)

Koios said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



I doubt you'd recognize irony if it crawled up your ass.  God knows, your posts show you're not very perceptive.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 21, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



can you say exactly what illogical garbage you are talking about???


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## Foxfyre (Nov 21, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



Sigh.  I think anybody who would have to ask probably wouldn't understand the explanation either.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 21, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



"The government interfered and imposed price minimums, therefore labor is no longer a commodity."

"Calling labor a commodity is equivalent to calling PEOPLE a commodity."

Start with those.  And if you're planning on insisting he didn't say those things because they aren't exact quotes, don't bother.


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## usmcstinger (Nov 21, 2012)

Amelia said:


> Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> 
> 
> Walmart's Internal Compensation Documents Reveal Systematic Limit On Advancement



No person is forced to work or shop at Walmart. If don't like working at Walmart, get another job, you idiot.
If you do not like how Walmart treats their employees, then don't shop there ass holes.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 21, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Probably not, but I'm a generous sort of person, so I'll provide explanations if people ask poltely for them.


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## Nosmo King (Nov 21, 2012)

usmcstinger said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> > Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> ...



Sounds well thought out.  If you live in a small town and Wal Mart is the only game in town, simply move your family, sell your house, pull your kids out of school, quit your church, say goodbye to your family and friends and get another job!  

Don't Conservatives claim to LOVE family and family values?  Tradition and continuity?  If you work at Wal Mart and are called in to work on Thanksgiving evening, ruining your family celebration and removing you from the traditional get togethers, how family friendly is that?  

Seems Conservatives don't give a rat's ass about family or tradition or continuity.  What really matters to them is profit, screwing workers and demeaning their rights, applauding management and hoping that those poor old CEOs can retain their staggeringly high bonuses and staggeringly low tax rates.  Yes sir!  Family be damned if there's a profit to be made!


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 21, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> usmcstinger said:
> 
> 
> > Amelia said:
> ...



Having a choice you don't like is not the same as having no choice.  It is not anyone else's responsibility to improve YOUR slate of life choices.  If you haven't bothered to prepare yourself to do any better in life than working at WalMart, then whose fault is it if you have to give up small town living and leave your family and friends to move to a big city for better pay?  WalMart's, for not valuing your unskilled ass as though you had actually educated yourself, or yours, for not educating yourself?

Go cry someone else a river.


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## PredFan (Nov 21, 2012)

If you work at Walmart and are not in mamagement, then it's time for you to admit you have made some poor life choices. YOU made the choices, not Walmart. Stop blaming Walmart for your mistakes and stop asking Walmart to subsidize them.

Did you get a big ole tattoo on your neck that says "Fuck You"?
Do you believe that grammar is racist and refuse to stop talking like your standing in the ghetto?
Do you lack education because you had the first of your 9 kids when you were 15? 
Do you lack job experience except for working 10 years in a prison laundry?
Do you just seem to have trouble getting up in time for work?
Do you like to just not show up for work some days?

None of this is Walmart's fault but Walmart is probably one of the few companies that would tolerate some of this behavior, the trade off is that you don't get paid squat. Don't expect sympathy when you go on strike to try to get wages the same as people who made something of their lives.


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## eots (Nov 21, 2012)

Amelia said:


> Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> 
> 
> Walmart's Internal Compensation Documents Reveal Systematic Limit On Advancement



I bought a printer there a few days ago..it was almost as cheap as the ink cartridge..it made me feel a little ill..but wal-mart is more the symptom than the problem itself...you simply can not sell a 22$ printer without salves


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## Foxfyre (Nov 21, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> usmcstinger said:
> 
> 
> > Amelia said:
> ...



Setting aside for a moment your contempt for all us conservatives and your low opinion of us. . . 

Daughter has a government job that more than once has required her to work through holidays.  Can we condemn the goverrnment for that or can we assume she knew the drill when she took the job?   Son works for a major oil company and he will be on call this Thanksgiving and could be called in for any issues or problems that come up.    Shall we condemn the oil companies for not spending mega millions to shut down a refinery because it is Thanksigivng Day?

I spent a lot of years working in hospitals and yes, we were all expected to take turns working on the holidays.  I suppose we could have just closed the hospital on Thanksgiving, but oh well. . . .might as well stay open and take care of sick people.

So yes. You can remove the Wal-mart and have no jobs at all in your small community--that is the case in almost every single little burg around here that could no longer support any kind of commerce and industry--or you can appreciate that there are jobs provided by the Wal-mart. 

If it was not Wal-mart there, it would be some other big box store providing the large selection and affordable prices that the people demand.  And if you didn't have a Wal-mart nearby, there is no guarantee that the more compassionate mom and pop stores that close on Sundays and holidays would be able to survive either because the country has changed and people are willing to driving longer distances to acquire the products they want.

P.S.  Our local Wal-mart pays overtime to employees who work the holiday shifts and generally have more people volunteering to take those shifts than they need.


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## Nosmo King (Nov 21, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > usmcstinger said:
> ...


I can imagine emergencies visiting hospitals.   I can understand why the processes of refining oil cannot be suspended.  I appreciate that some governmental services must be on guard and at post 24 hours a day.

What I cannot imagine is the absolute necessity to tear folks away from their families just to open a store on Thanksgiving evening. Unless, of course, families don't count as much as the bottom line.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 21, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



Because you keep up with the competition or you lose market share which also costs people jobs.  Again, our local Wal-mart has employees begging to take holiday shifts because they receive premium wages to do so.  They don't feel torn away from their families.  They want the work.   I, and probably you, grew up in towns where they rolled up the sidewalks on Saturday night and nothing was open on Sunday.  I remember the blue laws in which it was illegal to be open or to sell most products on Sundays or other special days.

But once one business opened up after church on Sunday, folks patronized that business and the experiment was successful like crazy.  And others wanted in on that gravy train so that now in most places, Sunday is little different from any other day throughout the country.  The super market who opened up on Thanksgiving morning or Christmas morning for a few hours so that folks who forgot that important ingredient could come get it realized huge profits in doing so.   And now in these crappy economic times, a lot of stores are starting black Friday on Thanksgiving evening to get ahead of the game.  Again, Wal-mart has to do the same or they lose out on market share.

All businesses do what they have to do to get customers in the door.  When they stop doing that, a lot of the jobs people are depending on will go away.


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## eots (Nov 21, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



good them we can come up with something better than this consumer maddness


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## Nosmo King (Nov 21, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...


Oh!  I see!  Wal Mart is performing a valuable service to their employees by opening their stores on Thanksgiving evening!  The employees are hap hap happy to leave their families and go in for another work day!  The community is happy because all those pesky family dinners can finally be abandoned and more profits can be made!  

Is this what Conservatives meant when they said "Let's take our country back!"?

I suppose the employees who are protesting Wal Mart's opening on Thanksgiving are nothing more than Communist agitators looking to besmirch the great tradition of leaving your family on holidays to go and stock shelves with Elmos and cans of motor oil.


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## eots (Nov 21, 2012)

*Wookiefoot Lyrics
" All You Can Eat Buffet "*



The grass grows in the field and the cows eat all the grass
And i eat all the cows so i can have a big white ass
Attention wal-mart shoppers there's a sale on isle five
So get spastic with your plastic ain't it great to be alive
What a happy day at the all you can eat buffet
Fill the whole damn tray at the all you can eat buffet
Let me here you say "go usa" at the all you can eat buffet
Just throw it all away at the all you can eat buffet
The cows grow in the field and the test tubes grew the eggs
When genetically perfected they won't even need their legs
Get excited wal-mart shoppers there's a new machine to buy
It brings you spiritual salvation only $19.95
Woke up one morning decided my i would make contact with
Freaks that eyes often don't have it
Saw the glutton eyes that look away from pain
Try to satisfy the appetites in vain
Look into the eyes of a child to redeem
Sing merrily this life is but a dream
One morning i woke up my ear could could hear what
When no one was listening those people who spoke up
Inside of every whisper was a scream
Of how alone when no one listens so it seems
All i have to offer back is my ear and a song
Singing merrily this life is but a dream...


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## Foxfyre (Nov 21, 2012)

eots said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



And what would that be?  Whatever happened to the concept of the customer is always right?   If people didn't WANT the consumer madness, there wouldn't be any.

That's why I don't understand why some want to demonize Wal-mart instead of the people who shop there.  If Wal-mart was not providing what their customers want and expect, then Wal-mart goes away along with the tens of thosuands of jobs it provides.   And then some other enterprise that does provide what the customers want and expect moves in and such enterprise might or might not be as product and customer friendly as Wal-mart.

But usually the free market shakes these things out pretty well and while none of us probably get everything we want, the best possible system for the largest number of people usually falls into place.


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## JWBooth (Nov 21, 2012)

PredFan said:


> If you work at Walmart and are not in mamagement, then it's time for you to admit you have made some poor life choices. YOU made the choices, not Walmart. Stop blaming Walmart for your mistakes and stop asking Walmart to subsidize them.
> 
> Did you get a big ole tattoo on your neck that says "Fuck You"?
> Do you believe that grammar is racist and refuse to stop talking like your standing in the ghetto?
> ...



Your average stop-n-rob convenience store clerk runs in the same track.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 21, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



Yes.  The employees in our closest Wal-mart ASKED to be assigned to the Holiday shift because they wanted the extra money.  Valuable service to the customers?  Who knows.  I think this is the first year retailers are starting Black Friday on Thanksgiving night.  If it is successful, then it may or may not become a new tradition.  If it isn't successful, then they won't do it anymore.

Nobody is protesting in Albuquerque about working on Thanksgiving.   But you can bet any picket lines at any Wal-marts are absolutely being stirred up by union agitators, and are being partially funded, aided and abetted by the George Soros funded Moveon.org.  And even the mainstream media admits that the numbers protesting include former Wal-mart employees who have no dog in the fight and that the overall numbers represent a tiny fraction of the Wal-mart workforce.
http://www.mrc.org/articles/news-guild-soros-funded-group-encourage-walmart-strike

I am all for living and let live.  If people don't want to work at Wal-mart, work someplace else.  If people don't want to shop at Wal-mart, shop someplace else.

But then I'm apparently a rotten, selfish, greedy Conservative in your eyes.  So what do I know?


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 21, 2012)

Koios said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



Excuse me.. Could you post that again? I can't believe my eyes!


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 21, 2012)

Ernie S. said:


> wavingrl said:
> 
> 
> > I hadn't been to Walmart since the 2nd week in September--50 % off on solar lights. That weekend I went to two one 15 minutes from my house the other a 30 minute expressway trip. Smooth sailing--I got what I wanted for the price I wanted and left--no problems.
> ...


Not quite. Pedestrians have the right of way in designated crosswalks ONLY. Jay walking is still a misdemeanor. Parking lots are quite popular with insurance frauds. And those looking for a quick buck through litigation.
Now, if a person is walking through a parking lot, they have an absolute responsibility to watch for moving cars. Parents should be holding the hands of their small children. 
Not that this is an issue on where one would or would not choose to shop.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 21, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



A&P..You have got to be from the Northeast..Possibly the NY Metro area or just outside of it.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 21, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> > sometimes,  but only for the fashion.
> ...



Sure is..But Wranglers are Wranglers no matter where you buy them
Your approach is the uneducated assumption that discount retailers do not sell name brand items. Such is not the case.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 21, 2012)

Koios said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > All minimum wage did was change the cost of labor and add some additional dynamics.  Labor is still a commodity as much as any other cost of doing business and any business person who is at all competent must factor in the cost of labor including payroll taxes, labor based insurance costs, costs of training, benefits, and all other costs related to labor when he or she fixes his/her prices.  It is a buyers market for the employer when the economy is crappy and unemployment is high and he/she can be much more picky about who gets hired and the workers have much less option about where then can work and what their earnings and benefits will be.   It is a sellers market for the worker when the economy is good and there is full employment--he/she has much more option to sell his/her labor the highest bidder.
> ...



Now one more time read this and understand...No one stated "people" are a commodity.
The labor people preform is the commodity.
Labor has ALWAYS been a commodity. 
Labor has a cost. And as with other costs, wage control is a priority in any business model.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 21, 2012)

Koios said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



What? Your illogical posts? Not lost on us for sure.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 21, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



Because YOUR family is YOUR problem.  THEIR problem is their customers, who want to be able to run out and grab what they forgot the night before, or who maybe just want to get out of the house - WITH family members, usually - and do a little Christmas browsing.

Get the fuck over the idea that businesses exist - or should exist - to perpetuate your hopelessly idealized "Ozzy and Harriet" view of how the world should work, even if you've got to pass laws and FORCE everyone to be 1950s happy.

WalMart's CUSTOMERS want them to be open on Thanksgiving.  If they didn't, WalMart wouldn't make enough money that day to make it worth opening.  WalMart serves its CUSTOMERS, not its employees.  If you want to shop somewhere where the employees matter more than you, as the customer, do, go for it.  The rest of us are not interested.


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## thanatos144 (Nov 21, 2012)

JWBooth said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > If you work at Walmart and are not in mamagement, then it's time for you to admit you have made some poor life choices. YOU made the choices, not Walmart. Stop blaming Walmart for your mistakes and stop asking Walmart to subsidize them.
> ...


fuck you.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 21, 2012)

eots said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



"Better" as defined by whom?  You?  Because obviously, the rest of us LIKE this "consumer madness" you decry, or it wouldn't exist.


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## thanatos144 (Nov 21, 2012)

How dare Wal-Mart ask people to earn the money they pay employees!!!!!


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 21, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



No, WalMart is not performing ANY "service" to their employees, because they DON'T EXIST TO SERVE THEIR EMPLOYEES.  That's the part you can't wrap your two brain cells around.  They are performing a service to their customers, who have made it clear that they WANT WalMart open on holidays.  Their employees, who are PART of WalMart, however much you want to pretend the two are utterly separate and divorced, are HELPING to perform that service to the customers, because THEY, like their bosses up the management chain, want the benefits that come with providing that service, including the continued operation of the store which is trading them a paycheck for their work.

I'd bet most of the people who are working the holidays at WalMart ARE pretty happy to be there, and if you ask them, will tell you what they're planning to do with the extra money their holiday differential pay is going to put into their paycheck.  I'll further bet that most of them are going to spend that money on their families, the ones YOU pretend to be championing in your zeal to cut their available work hours in service to some fuzzy-wuzzy "It's a Wonderful Life" throwback you have stuck in your head.

We've had years when I much preferred having that extra money in the paycheck to having your so-holy "family dinner" together.  We just ate dinner later, and thanked God the employer in question was offering holiday hours.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 21, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Nope.  I'm just educated, and the disappearance of the A & P is a pretty standard example in economics classes of how the market changes; how any business, no matter how large and powerful, can miss one market change and die; and how there's no such thing as a monopoly in a free market.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 21, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> usmcstinger said:
> 
> 
> > Amelia said:
> ...



Lots of people do it. As  matter of fact, uprooting one's self and family to find a better life elsewhere is part of American history. 
It doesn't matter if it's cross country or cross town.
I knew this response was coming. Walmart being the only game in town..
As anyone knows this is highly improbable and illogical.
If a retailer the size of a Walmart were the only retailer, the only business in town, the Walmart's business would be so off, the store would not stay in business.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 21, 2012)

What the hell is up with all this run-amok nostalgia?  It's all very well and good to have a warm, fuzzy feeling in your tummy and a tear in your eye when you think about "back in the day", but this idea that we're supposed to reverse all technological and economic change to strand ourselves forever at that point - whatever point it was, because people don't even agree about THAT - is just ludicrous.

Just because I remember fondly a time when my life wasn't full of cell phones jangling everywhere I go and rude people carrying on personal conversations at the top of their lungs right next to me in the supermarket does NOT mean I want to go back to a time when having my car break down meant a five-mile walk to the nearest payphone to call for help.

Get a grip, you anti-capitalist weirdos.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 21, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



There are tons of people who's holidays are not OUR holidays.
My work also involves the risk of "being torn away" from family on holidays. This is the business I have chosen. 
Farmers who raise animals do not get a day off because the animals must be fed and watered.
TV and Radio workers and talent must work. Utility companies must man plants and other facilities. 
While I disagree with the need to shop on a day such as Thanksgiving. Those that work retail should have expected this. That is the business_ they_ have chosen.


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## thanatos144 (Nov 21, 2012)

What pussies.....I am working tomorrow and I am not crying about it.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 21, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> What the hell is up with all this run-amok nostalgia?  It's all very well and good to have a warm, fuzzy feeling in your tummy and a tear in your eye when you think about "back in the day", but this idea that we're supposed to reverse all technological and economic change to strand ourselves forever at that point - whatever point it was, because people don't even agree about THAT - is just ludicrous.
> 
> Just because I remember fondly a time when my life wasn't full of cell phones jangling everywhere I go and rude people carrying on personal conversations at the top of their lungs right next to me in the supermarket does NOT mean I want to go back to a time when having my car break down meant a five-mile walk to the nearest payphone to call for help.
> 
> Get a grip, you anti-capitalist weirdos.



Well in truth I do remember those 'olden days' when Sunday really was a day of rest or at least leisure for most of us.  Not only did all the businesses in town close, but our parents arranged their week so that housework and other mundane tasks--except for Sunday dinner which was a noon meal then--would not be done on Sunday.  So Sunday was a day to just kick back, maybe visit with family or friends.  And in my opinion that was a good thing and it was good for people.

But oh well.  The world changed.  Things have become faster and more complicated and people live much differently now and do business and do their shopping much differently than they did back then.  And at least most of us 'old timers' have adjusted to that and deal with it.  So okay, we may remember those old days fondly and regret their passing.

But most of us sure as hell don't blame Wal-mart because the 21st century happened.  

But you are very right, Cecile, that Wal-mart does not exist for the benefit of its employees.  Or its customers for that matter.  It exists for the benefit of making money for those who own it and hold interest in their stock.

Nor do the customers shop at Wal-mart for Wal-mart or its employees benefit for the most part.  They shop there because Wal-mart offers them products during times they want to shop at a price they are willing to pay.   They spend their money at Wal-mart to benefit themselves.

Nor do the employees work for the benefit of Wal-mart or its customers.  They work to make money for their own interests.

And somehow, all benefit each other simply by selfishly looking to their own interests.


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 21, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > If the store had the lowest price on something that I wanted yes I would. For those who feel victimized by Walmart's practices I suggest they make themselves better equipped for the job market. Opportunities are plentiful for those who possess the best qualifications, market themselves well and have the wherewithal to commit to what the job market demands.
> ...



thats because your now considered an "Old Fart"......


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 21, 2012)

AquaAthena said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > Yup, and I don't feel bad about it either
> ...



and i bet the guys enjoy it when you come in too.....


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 21, 2012)

percysunshine said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> > AmyNation said:
> ...



yea.....can you imagine her and Syrenn coming in at the same time?....


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## JOSweetHeart (Nov 21, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> I am working tomorrow and I am not crying about it.


Is being on the job tomorrow what you already wanted?

God bless you always!!!   

Holly

P.S. Some people like to be off on holidays such as Thanksgiving and Christmas to be with their families and I can't blame them. I lost three cousins and one of my grandmothers all in just last year alone (I lost one of them three cousins on this day actually last year.) and so to me everyone should try to grab as many holidays with their families as they can get their hands on.


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 21, 2012)

iamwhatiseem said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > iamwhatiseem said:
> ...



hey our Country had to progress from our "Child Labor" days to where it is now....so now its up to Bangladesh and others to do it.....maybe they need some Unions to go over and shake things up.......


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 21, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> > Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> ...



i hear ya Hugg.....if its American made and costs a buck more then the one made in Slobovia.....ill buy American.....


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 21, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> > Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> ...



you flip flop just like Romney.........


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 21, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> > I will let my signature do the talking...
> ...


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 21, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Connery said:
> ...


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 21, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> luddly.neddite said:
> 
> 
> > iamwhatiseem said:
> ...



Dudley has to have something to Whine about....


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 21, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > syrenn said:
> ...


she has ya there Synth.....im Italian and LOOK for different types of pasta....and when you mentioned that brand....i said....Mueller's?...........


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## Nosmo King (Nov 21, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...


American Consumerism uber alles.  Gee.  We only have an entire month to have that stilted ethos shoved down our throats or up our asses.  So long as a profit is made, who cares about family?  Money is what matters.  But don't EVER SAY ANYTHING ABOUT AMERICAN VALUES EVER AGAIN!!!!  If the bottom line dictates your values, to Hell with them!


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 21, 2012)

syrenn said:


> luddly.neddite said:
> 
> 
> > thanatos144 said:
> ...



when my Nephew was born i turned him over to look at his ass to see if he was made in China......


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 21, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> > The average WalMart factory worker in Bangladesh makes $43 per month. On average, 14 hours per day.
> > Thank you for shopping at WalMart.
> > The Walton family is worth over $100 billion, gives less than 1% to charity, while 47% of WalMart employees children have no health insurance.
> > Thank you for shopping at WalMart.
> ...



are you Whining AGAIN?......thats all you do....


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 21, 2012)

Political Junky said:


> Walmart hires most people part time to avoid giving them health insurance.



so do a lot of other companies.....the Post Office wants to do that....


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## Foxfyre (Nov 21, 2012)

JOSweetHeart said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > I am working tomorrow and I am not crying about it.
> ...



Amen.  Family is precious and we should never take it for granted.  But the fact is, some people WANT to work on the holidays, most especially when they get premium pay to do so.  There was a time we needed the money far more than we needed time, and I volunteered to work holidays to get the double pay.   So I do not sneer at those who choose not to work on Sundays or holidays and I don't sneer at those who do.

Again, I very seriously doubt more than a few Wal-mart employees, if even that, are being REQUIRED to work on Thanksgiviing.   But the fact remains that nobody is forced to work for Wal-mart and we all have the choice of what we are and are not willing to do in matters of family, work, religion, where we live, and every other aspect of the American way of life.  We are a free people where nobody has the right to dictate to us what we must do in such matters.

Wal-mart is in business to make money and for no other reason.  They made a marketing decision not to allow their competitors to get the jump on them by remaining closed on Thanksgiving evening.   They are by no means the only retailer who made that decision.  If it works out they may do it again.   If nobody is interested in shopping on Thanksgiving evening, they'll all chalk it up to an experiment that wasn't profitable and they won't do it anymore.

Wal-marts customers won't be going to Wal-mart to help Wal-mart out.  They will be going there for products they want and Wal-mart has.

Wal-marts employees won't be going to work for Wal-mart's benefit or the customers' benefit but to earn money to use for their own purposes.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 21, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > What the hell is up with all this run-amok nostalgia?  It's all very well and good to have a warm, fuzzy feeling in your tummy and a tear in your eye when you think about "back in the day", but this idea that we're supposed to reverse all technological and economic change to strand ourselves forever at that point - whatever point it was, because people don't even agree about THAT - is just ludicrous.
> ...



I appreciate that it was nice back when life was slower.  On the other hand, I refuse to let myself be blinded by the golden glow of nostalgia to the point where I forget that the "days of yore" weren't ENTIRELY spiffy.  

And more importantly, I'm not going to try to decree that THAT is the only acceptable way of doing things, and anyone who chooses to do otherwise should be forced to comply with my worldview . . . which is where I'm REALLY differing with these leftists and their "misty water-colored memories".



Foxfyre said:


> But oh well.  The world changed.  Things have become faster and more complicated and people live much differently now and do business and do their shopping much differently than they did back then.  And at least most of us 'old timers' have adjusted to that and deal with it.  So okay, we may remember those old days fondly and regret their passing.



A lot of old-timers still do things the old way in their own personal lives.  Congratulations to them.  So long as they understand that I'M not compelled to do the same, we're good.



Foxfyre said:


> But most of us sure as hell don't blame Wal-mart because the 21st century happened.



Yup.  That IS the crux of the problem.



Foxfyre said:


> But you are very right, Cecile, that Wal-mart does not exist for the benefit of its employees.  Or its customers for that matter.  It exists for the benefit of making money for those who own it and hold interest in their stock.



Well, yes and no.  Yes, it exists to make money for its stockholders, but it does that by serving its customers.  So, in essence, it exists to serve its customers.



Foxfyre said:


> Nor do the customers shop at Wal-mart for Wal-mart or its employees benefit for the most part.  They shop there because Wal-mart offers them products during times they want to shop at a price they are willing to pay.   They spend their money at Wal-mart to benefit themselves.



Just try to convince a liberal that shopping is not about charity and bestowing benevolence on those workers and businesses you've deemed socially worthy.  TRY it.  I dare you.  



Foxfyre said:


> Nor do the employees work for the benefit of Wal-mart or its customers.  They work to make money for their own interests.



Again, yes and no.  Yes, they're working for their own benefit, but the SMART ones, the ones who keep their jobs for a long time, understand that their own benefit coincides with WalMart's best interests in this.



Foxfyre said:


> And somehow, all benefit each other simply by selfishly looking to their own interests.



Quite true, and a big shout-out to Adam Smith.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Nov 21, 2012)

JOSweetHeart said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > I am working tomorrow and I am not crying about it.
> ...



Many people don't have families.  Many other people are estranged from their families, or just don't get along well with them.  And many people of a third group are in a financial struggle, and have decided that supporting their families has to take precedence over warm fuzzies.

Oh, and as someone pointed out, many people don't celebrate the same holidays that we do, and so see no significance to tomorrow at all.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 21, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



Guess what, Tardboy?  Those "poor, oppressed" WalMart employees are ALSO CONSUMERS.  A lot of them are THRILLED with that extra holiday pay because they're planning on spending it on Christmas presents for the family members you're lamenting their lost relationships with.

And if you don't want to be a consumer, pal, don't.  Ain't nobody gonna make you, or frankly give a tin shit whether you are or not.  But the rest of us understand, to a greater or lesser degree, that no man is an island.  We are all incapable of making every single item we will ever need in our entire lives.  We need to get those items from someone who CAN make them, and that makes us consumers.  So spare me the ultra-righteous whinging and moaning about the evils of reality as a human being, okay?

And DON'T fucking tell me what I can and can't talk about, dipshit.  I'll talk about American values all goddamned day long if I take a notion to, and YOU neither fucking OWN that concept or that term, nor do you DEFINE them for anyone else, so get that right through that pointy little fucking dunce cap you call a head.  YOU don't get to decide that "American values" have to somehow exclude the simple need to purchase items from other people, or the less-basic _enjoyment _of purchasing items from other people, and you DON'T get to decide that "American values" has to be defined as "trying to make the world exist in some personal static, unchanging half-memory, half-daydream of perfection I've got stuck in my head".  Got it?  Good.

Now fuck off.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 21, 2012)

Harry Dresden said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> > luddly.neddite said:
> ...



My kids weren't made in China, but they were made by a Chinaman.  

That's right, I went there.


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## JOSweetHeart (Nov 21, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Many people don't have families.  Many other people are estranged from their families, or just don't get along well with them.  And many people of a third group are in a financial struggle, and have decided that supporting their families has to take precedence over warm fuzzies.
> 
> Oh, and as someone pointed out, many people don't celebrate the same holidays that we do, and so see no significance to tomorrow at all.


That is very sad but true, especially about those who can't afford to get a day off. I have a cousin who sadly lost his house still several years ago even though he was working seven days a week.   

God bless you and him always!!!   

Holly

P.S. Ever since then, my cousin has lived in an RV.


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## B. Kidd (Nov 21, 2012)

It is none of the OP's business where I F'ing shop.
I don't give a shit where you shop.......fer' sure!
I hate these open-ended questions from Politically Correct Pubes................


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 21, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> JOSweetHeart said:
> 
> 
> > thanatos144 said:
> ...


Where you and I differ is on "many people don't celebrate the same holidays that we do, and so see no significance to tomorrow at all."..
If one chooses to leave their country of origin and immigrate to the USA, they are expected to live by the rules of our culture as it relates to those native to this country. In other words  Americans. I will not throw the baby out with the bath water on cultural issues. This is America. We have a distinct American culture. Something liberals have been attempting to destroy for years. So if one comes here, they will have to get used to OUR holidays. 
Now, should a retailer open on holidays? In my mind, no. However, I don't get to make that decision. Would I shop tomorrow. HELL NO. Thanksgiving is for family and that's that. Yes many people in many types of occupations must work on these days. It is the business they have chosen. So be it. 
I have tried and it seems to have worked to convince Mrs "Spoon" to wait until Friday to go shopping for the big bargains.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 21, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > syrenn said:
> ...



You are a very funny individual!!!!!


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 21, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > JOSweetHeart said:
> ...



Becoming an American does not obligate you to celebrate holidays.  It only obligates you to respect the right of others to do so.  

Nor is it necessarily immigrants who don't celebrate Thanksgiving and other holidays.  Some people don't celebrate any holidays at all, for religious reasons.  That's their right.  Some people just don't like holidays.

Point being, these "everyone should do what I think they should do" people need to back the hell off and stop trying to impose their own rosy, unrealistic view of an ideal world onto other people.

But they're liberals, and they NEVER stop trying to impose their rosy, unrealistic views of an ideal world onto other people, do they?


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 21, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > syrenn said:
> ...



you cant get any closer than that......


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 21, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


Precisely my point. I think it's just fine if immigrants and others do not celebrate our holidays. Just don't they dare interfere with anyone who wishes to do so.
Of course we have the PC multicultural view which is 'Don't offend those who don't do(fill in the blank)...Case and point. Christmas Break from public school has been renamed "winter break"..Merry Christmas was all but banned from some stores. Lowes went so far one year to label Christmas trees, not the generic "Holiday" trees but the extreme PC "Family tree"..Lowes received a lot of static about that one.


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## Koios (Nov 22, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Astonishing.  Absolutely astonishing.  Did your parents drop you as an infant or do you fall down much? 

Now then Ms. Perception, did you notice that my response was a question? It had a question mark even, thus eliminating any potential confusion that it was merely rhetorical. 

But I guess even god's gift to perception can overlook a bit of punctuation now and then.  No need to let it bother you. 

So once again: what other commodities have price minimums? Can you name one? (note question marks)


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## Jarlaxle (Nov 22, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> > sometimes,  but only for the fashion.
> ...



Wal-Mart sells the exact same clothes as other stores...they just cost less.  But never let FACTS get in your way!


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## thanatos144 (Nov 22, 2012)

JOSweetHeart said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > I am working tomorrow and I am not crying about it.
> ...


I made a agreement when I was hired....Just like the talking heads on TV right now who are not walking off their job or the police working today..... You make a agreement you stick to it you don't whine like a little bitch cause you have to live up to your word.


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## Neurotika (Nov 22, 2012)

i do not. usually i try thrift stores for my stuff first..i work in one so that makes it easy..my kitchen and closets are full of very high quality items that i pay almost nothing for. clothing and cookware in perfect condition. brands that i love..levis <3 i love my old levis and others. and im reusing what is already made and keeping shit out of landfills as their is no additional packaging to fucking up the envitronment.

if i MUST buy new..i try when possible to support smaller businesses that are local as opposed to the mass produced cheap shiny china crapware store.


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## Koios (Nov 22, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> JOSweetHeart said:
> 
> 
> > thanatos144 said:
> ...



Was the agreement pre-hire, or signed later and potentially under duress or absent consideration? 

And it says specifically that you will work holidays; or just Thanksgivings, with reasonable temporal limits and additional consideration making the agreement legal and thus binding on you?


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## thanatos144 (Nov 22, 2012)

Koios said:


> thanatos144 said:
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> > JOSweetHeart said:
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All of them are..... Get off welfare and look for a job.


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## Koios (Nov 22, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Koios said:
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> > thanatos144 said:
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All of what are what?


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## thanatos144 (Nov 22, 2012)

Koios said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
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 employment agreements


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## Koios (Nov 22, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Koios said:
> 
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> > thanatos144 said:
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What agreement did you sign?  Typically shit-pay service jobs that have folks coming in on holidays do not involve contacts.  Heck; even well-paid folks such as myself who are being paid today and tomorrow while we need not go into work, are not under a contractual obligation to work.  Do X and you get paid. Don't do X you don't get paid.  But no one is indentured.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 22, 2012)

Employment agreements don't have to be signed.  You and your employer agree on what your job will be and the employer expectations, what your hours will be, when you start, what your starting wage and any benefits will be, etc.   And there will be an agreement in advance if weekend and holiday work is expected.   This Thanksgiving many government employees, UPS and FedEx employees, hospital personnel, a skeleton staff on the local newspapers, many retailers, casinos, restaurant workers, ships crews and various and other assorted workers are on the job as we speak.  Most don't have to work EVERY weekend unless that is what they wanted; most don't have to work EVERY holiday.

And the pumpkin pies are about ready to come out of the oven and I need to get the turkey in.  Sometimes I envy those who work on the Holidays and then have an excuse not to do all the traditional stuff we who are at home have to do.


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## Koios (Nov 22, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Employment agreements don't have to be signed.  You and your employer agree on what your job will be and the employer expectations, what your hours will be, when you start, what your starting wage and any benefits will be, etc.   And there will be an agreement in advance if weekend and holiday work is expected.   This Thanksgiving many government employees, UPS and FedEx employees, hospital personnel, a skeleton staff on the local newspapers, many retailers, casinos, restaurant workers, ships crews and various and other assorted workers are on the job as we speak.  Most don't have to work EVERY weekend unless that is what they wanted; most don't have to work EVERY holiday.
> 
> And the pumpkin pies are about ready to come out of the oven and I need to get the turkey in.  Sometimes I envy those who work on the Holidays and then have an excuse not to do all the traditional stuff we who are at home have to do.



Sure they do. You get an employee handbook and sign that it was received by you. You sign that everything in your employment application is truthful.  Ink matters,  especially to employers. 

But no one in America is indentured. Period.


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## Big Black Dog (Nov 22, 2012)

The unions only interest in Walmart is the great untapped source of income from collecting union dues from it's employees should they be able to unionize.  Aside from that, the union could give a rat's ass about Walmart employees.


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## PredFan (Nov 22, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Employment agreements don't have to be signed.  You and your employer agree on what your job will be and the employer expectations, what your hours will be, when you start, what your starting wage and any benefits will be, etc.   And there will be an agreement in advance if weekend and holiday work is expected.   This Thanksgiving many government employees, UPS and FedEx employees, hospital personnel, a skeleton staff on the local newspapers, many retailers, casinos, restaurant workers, ships crews and various and other assorted workers are on the job as we speak.  Most don't have to work EVERY weekend unless that is what they wanted; most don't have to work EVERY holiday.
> 
> And the pumpkin pies are about ready to come out of the oven and I need to get the turkey in.  Sometimes I envy those who work on the Holidays and then have an excuse not to do all the traditional stuff we who are at home have to do.



I work at a hospital as a subcontractor of sorts. I am the boss who makes the schedule and I am working today along with minimal staff. I have a lot of young employees who have young families and I am working so that one more of them gets to spend time with his family. Someone has to work because in healthcare, the doors never close. In my line of work I could sit here all day and not have to do much but I culd also work emergency cases all day and even be here for up to 16 hours. I signed that "contract" when I came to work for this company and began collecting a paycheck.


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## Koios (Nov 22, 2012)

Big Black Dog said:


> The unions only interest in Walmart is the great untapped source of income from collecting union dues from it's employees should they be able to unionize.  Aside from that, the union could give a rat's ass about Walmart employees.



That's simply wrong. Of course they want membership to grow and to raise more operating capital. But they also want more leverage and influence that comes with it and which is used to get workers more pay and benefits as well as improved job security.


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## PredFan (Nov 22, 2012)

Koios said:


> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> > The unions only interest in Walmart is the great untapped source of income from collecting union dues from it's employees should they be able to unionize.  Aside from that, the union could give a rat's ass about Walmart employees.
> ...



he's correct, you are naive.


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## Koios (Nov 22, 2012)

PredFan said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Employment agreements don't have to be signed.  You and your employer agree on what your job will be and the employer expectations, what your hours will be, when you start, what your starting wage and any benefits will be, etc.   And there will be an agreement in advance if weekend and holiday work is expected.   This Thanksgiving many government employees, UPS and FedEx employees, hospital personnel, a skeleton staff on the local newspapers, many retailers, casinos, restaurant workers, ships crews and various and other assorted workers are on the job as we speak.  Most don't have to work EVERY weekend unless that is what they wanted; most don't have to work EVERY holiday.
> ...



But you're there by choice. You are not there by contractual obligation.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 22, 2012)

Koios said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Employment agreements don't have to be signed.  You and your employer agree on what your job will be and the employer expectations, what your hours will be, when you start, what your starting wage and any benefits will be, etc.   And there will be an agreement in advance if weekend and holiday work is expected.   This Thanksgiving many government employees, UPS and FedEx employees, hospital personnel, a skeleton staff on the local newspapers, many retailers, casinos, restaurant workers, ships crews and various and other assorted workers are on the job as we speak.  Most don't have to work EVERY weekend unless that is what they wanted; most don't have to work EVERY holiday.
> ...



Some jobs come with personnel handbooks.  Some don't.  Signing a personnel application is NOT an employee/employer agreement and some place don't require written applications at all.    In our business we received lots and lots of resumes and I sometimes hired from those and sometimes I just talked with the person, got the names of their former employers, and after checking them out hired them.   Sometimes you just know you don't even need to check them out.  My two very best employees I got that way.  And I have been hired on the spot in just that way.

But you are correct.  As long as we are a free country, nobody is required to work for anybody and also nobody is guaranteed a perfect job that they provides everything they want and that they love in every aspect.


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## Koios (Nov 22, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
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But the society can only sustain itself if the wages you pay enable a person to live and consume at a base level: clothing, food,  toaster, etc. Certainly your business depends on wage earners who make decent livings.


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## PredFan (Nov 22, 2012)

Koios said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
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Not really, someone has to work. If it wasn't me, it's only by virtue of the fact that I am the manager and the most senior. I think the point of this line of discussion is that when you get hired you agree, and sign on, to terms.


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## PredFan (Nov 22, 2012)

Koios said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...




If anyone who works at Walmart is unable to afford those basic items, it IS NOT the fault of Walmart.


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## PredFan (Nov 22, 2012)

I've said this before but it needs to be reiterated. 
If you work at Walmart and are not in management, then it's time for you to admit you have made some poor life choices. YOU made the choices, not Walmart. Stop blaming Walmart for your mistakes and stop asking Walmart to subsidize them.

Did you get a big ole tattoo on your neck that says "Fuck You"?
Do you believe that grammar is racist and refuse to stop talking like your standing in the ghetto?
Do you lack education because you had the first of your 9 kids when you were 15? 
Do you lack job experience except for working 10 years in a prison laundry?
Do you just seem to have trouble getting up in time for work?
Do you like to just not show up for work some days?

None of this is Walmart's fault but Walmart is probably one of the few companies that would tolerate some of this behavior, the trade off is that you don't get paid squat. Don't expect sympathy when you go on strike to try to get wages the same as people who made something of their lives.

If you are working at Walmart and you cannot afford the basics of life it is NOT Walmart's fault. If you cannot stay within a budget, get a 2nd job. Here's a clue; you work at Walmart, they don't pay well.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 22, 2012)

PredFan said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Employment agreements don't have to be signed.  You and your employer agree on what your job will be and the employer expectations, what your hours will be, when you start, what your starting wage and any benefits will be, etc.   And there will be an agreement in advance if weekend and holiday work is expected.   This Thanksgiving many government employees, UPS and FedEx employees, hospital personnel, a skeleton staff on the local newspapers, many retailers, casinos, restaurant workers, ships crews and various and other assorted workers are on the job as we speak.  Most don't have to work EVERY weekend unless that is what they wanted; most don't have to work EVERY holiday.
> ...



Yes, we have taken the holiday and weekend shifts too in order to allow our people to be at home.,   And now both our kids are in supervisory positions and unless there is a compelling reason not to, they often agree to be the one on call so their staff can take off with the family or whatever.   But sometimes businesses do need or want to be open on a holiday because it is necessary--police, hospitals etc.--or because it is profitable:  the local 7/11 that does really well when other businesses or closed or Wal-mart or other businesses who have to make their big bucks during the holiday season or they don't do well at all. 

Cecile and I almost had a friendly disagreement about who works for whose benefit.   And I still say that yes, it benefits the employer to have a happy work force; it benefits the employee to have a happy and accommodating employer; it benefits both to have happy customers and it benefits the customer to provide products they want in a pleasant environment.   But we should not kid ourselves that ANY of these folks aren't doing what they do for their own benefit.   But in their doing that, there is nevertheless mutual benefit to all.


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## Koios (Nov 22, 2012)

PredFan said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



I agree. It's our fault. We fear that decent wages will cost us more at the checkout stand and thus tolerate a minimum wage, inflation adjusted, that's half of what it was in the 70s.


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## Papageorgio (Nov 22, 2012)

Koios said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
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But his contract tells him someone HAS to be there. He even stated SOMEONE HAS TO WORK. 

This is my first Thanksgiving off in 11 years. Some jobs you get, you simply have no choice, especially the owners.


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## Papageorgio (Nov 22, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Yep, it is all for mutual benefit, for 11 years I have worked every holiday, Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, the 4th, Labor, New Years Day and so on. Why? For my employees to spend time with their families. I felt they needed that time, I felt it would benefit my business, it was a mutual relationship that benefited all and I made a sacrifice for the sake of happy employees. I made very little those days, yet I was under contract to be open. So I sucked it up and lived with it. No big deal to me, a big deal to my employees.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 22, 2012)

Papageorgio said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
> ...



That's true.  My first hospital job I agreed to work every other weekend--hours were shorter but I had to be there.   And I agreed to work every other Thanksgiving, every other Christmas, etc. too because though hours were shorter, somebody had to be there.   But. . . .nobody forced me to take the job.  I did so willingly and therefore agreed to what was required for that job.


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## Nosmo King (Nov 22, 2012)

If WalMart had issued a statement like this:

"We at WalMart, the World's Largest Retailer, value our Walton Family and the families of all the little people who make the Walton Family fortune grow exponentially.  In that spirit, we are going to grant a paid holiday to all our employees so they too may enjoy their own little family.  But watch for Door Buster Specials come Friday morning!  We're here to make sure you spend and think about spending and care about little else right up to and including Christmas Day!"


The American consumer would understand because they recognize the words "Door Buster Special"  The modern American Conservative would understand because they recognize the words "Walton Family fortune" and would fight every person on Social Security to make sure that family fortune is untouched by civic obligation.  The American Liberals would understand because finally the WalMart workers will get what they deserve; a day off with pay to spend with their family.

Maybe rather than champion American consumerism over the meaning of Thanksgiving, the contemporary American Conservative could hold on to a shred of credibility when the "War on Christmas" threads start popping up.  I understand the values the contemporary American Conservative holds most dear.  It ain't family or tradition, it's cash flow.  Now, when they start bitching about "Happy Holidays" and "Winter Festivals" won't it be tough for them to keep a straight face, given the shallowness of their regard for families on Thanksgiving Day?


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 22, 2012)

Koios said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...


Whether you like it or not, the reality is when unemployment is high, there are more workers available than jobs. Large supply, small demand. Hence the cost of labor is lower for the business.
When the opposite occurs the labor rates increase. 
It's very simple. When a thing is subject to the laws of supply and demand, it is a commodity. End of argument.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 22, 2012)

Koios said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...


Once again. We are all responsible to ourselves. If one has the drive, they can reach their potential with the appropriate amount of effort.
Those that complain about being underpaid and do nothing about it, are their own worst enemies.


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## Koios (Nov 22, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
> ...



I've no problem with that. So if they're being responsible and wishing to provide for themselves and not have to supplement their earnings with government assistance such as childcare, EBT card for food, etc, then they should do what those good manufacturing workers did to climb out of poverty wages: organize and demand better pay.


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## usmcstinger (Nov 22, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> usmcstinger said:
> 
> 
> > Amelia said:
> ...



Excuses are the reason you have failed. You blame every one but yourself for your situation. The only one who can change your situation is you. Either change your situation or continue to wallow in your own self pity.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 22, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> If WalMart had issued a statement like this:
> 
> "We at WalMart, the World's Largest Retailer, value our Walton Family and the families of all the little people who make the Walton Family fortune grow exponentially.  In that spirit, we are going to grant a paid holiday to all our employees so they too may enjoy their own little family.  But watch for Door Buster Specials come Friday morning!  We're here to make sure you spend and think about spending and care about little else right up to and including Christmas Day!"
> 
> ...



How DARE WalMart basically force employees to stay home on what is essentially a religious holiday.   They will lose opportunities for overtime pay, any any other benefit that comes with working.  Paying them the pittance of a paid day off isn't worth basically forcing religion down their throats.


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## PredFan (Nov 22, 2012)

Koios said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
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I'm going to give you the benfit of the doubt and assume you are simply saying this to be an asshole who cannot admit when they are wrong, instead of being stupid enough to actually believe that. Am I right in doing so?


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## PredFan (Nov 22, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
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And then there are those who see an opportunity to blackmail a business into paying them what they don't deserve.


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## PredFan (Nov 22, 2012)

Koios said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



Wrong. They should take it upon them selves to improve their lot instead of demanding that a company subsidize their poor life choices.


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## Koios (Nov 22, 2012)

PredFan said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
> ...



Assume what you want. But no; you're wrong.


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## PredFan (Nov 22, 2012)

usmcstinger said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > usmcstinger said:
> ...




Why should they wallow when they can organize and blackmail a company into paying them money they don't deserve?


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## PredFan (Nov 22, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > If WalMart had issued a statement like this:
> ...



Lol, interesting take.


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## PredFan (Nov 22, 2012)

Koios said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



So I'm wrong in giving you the benefit of the doubt? I see......fine then.


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## Koios (Nov 22, 2012)

PredFan said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
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Try to stay with me, and you for that matter.  Your assumption is wrong, but assuming what you want is okie doke.  K? 

And in my opinion, you'd do better to give yourself the benefit of knowledge. Terse rhetoric is the refuge of fools who haven't the slightest clue about business nor political economics.


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## Nosmo King (Nov 22, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > If WalMart had issued a statement like this:
> ...


Who said anything about religion?


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## PredFan (Nov 22, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...




Well, you did talk about "the meaning of Thanksgiving", even if you didn't mean it that way, it implies for many a religious meaning.


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## PredFan (Nov 22, 2012)

Koios said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
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Oooh, not too ironic!!!


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## Nosmo King (Nov 22, 2012)

usmcstinger said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > usmcstinger said:
> ...


And Ebenezer Scrooge chimes in!  Are there no Work Houses?  The treadmill is still running, is it not?  And a Happy Thanksgiving to all who can afford it!


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## Nosmo King (Nov 22, 2012)

PredFan said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...


It is _inferred_ by some, but not implied by me.  Thanksgiving is what you take it to mean.  But, in my circumstance, family has always been central to the meaning.


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## PredFan (Nov 22, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



I'm just answering your question of "Who said anythying about religion?" 99% of the time his assumption that your statement about the meaning of Christmas was about religion would be correct.


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## usmcstinger (Nov 23, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> usmcstinger said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...


We have brave men and women in combat zones who work 24/7 to make sure you little immature ass wipes can complain about bull shit issues.


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## Samson (Nov 23, 2012)

usmcstinger said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > usmcstinger said:
> ...



They Volunteered.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 24, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Apparently, SOMEONE imagines that simply because he asks questions, that obligates others to answer them.  He doesn't seem to realize that my response doesn't indicate that I didn't know he asked a question; it indicates that I think he's too much of an utter dumbass to respect enough to answer them.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 24, 2012)

Koios said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



Yes, because we see how well that worked out for American manufacturing.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 24, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> usmcstinger said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



Spoken like someone who's never read Charles Dickens.  I do so love it when liberals quote great literature in an attempt to make their arguments sound erudite, and end up hilariously botching the whole thing and revealing their ignorance.


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## Luissa (Nov 24, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > usmcstinger said:
> ...



I am still wondering why you are so full of hate?


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## craner (Nov 24, 2012)

I shop there and like it. Walmart is good for America. Tell the unions to butt the hell out , they wont wreck this like they did the steel industry. I also know some Walmart workers who enjoy working there. Good to know they did great on Black Friday despite the Unions brought in to hurt them.


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## Papageorgio (Nov 24, 2012)

craner said:


> I shop there and like it. Walmart is good for America. Tell the unions to butt the hell out , they wont wreck this like they did the steel industry. I also know some Walmart workers who enjoy working there. Good to know they did great on Black Friday despite the Unions brought in to hurt them.



I'm not a Walmart shopper, I hate the big box stores, however, unions hiring protesters is a low even for unions. If you can't get protesters because of a cause, you really have no cause. It screams desperation of the union.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 24, 2012)

Big Black Dog said:


> The unions only interest in Walmart is the great untapped source of income from collecting union dues from it's employees should they be able to unionize.  Aside from that, the union could give a rat's ass about Walmart employees.



Has anyone noticed the absence of criticism for Home Depot, Lowes. Sears, K Mart, Target, and many other dept stores and discounters? These are generally non-union as well.
This give a strong indication that this is not a legitimate issue, but a CAUSE put forth by union activists.
IN this latest attack on Walmart, it has been discovered that is it not mainly Walmart employees staging these protests, it is people shipped in bu instructed to travel to protests by unions. Simply to stir up trouble.
My take is the more unions push this, the more blow back they receive from an unsympathetic public.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 24, 2012)

Koios said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...


For the most part employers pay at a level where a balance between the value of the work performed is matched with the skill level and experience of the employee. In other words, appropriate.
A business that pays more than the value of the work or a high percentage of labor vs productivity is destined to find itself in financial difficulty or possibly out of business.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 24, 2012)

Koios said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



Whine....There should be no minimum wage requirement. Unions push for a min wage because their contract wage levels are indexed to the min wage. The higher the government mandated number, the more union bosses can demand of business.
The idea that government can step in and demand a level of pay from a private company is absurd.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 24, 2012)

Koios said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



Yes the problem with  labor collectives is they have not learned to adjust with the fiscal realities of the present.


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## Richard-H (Nov 24, 2012)

I have avoided shopping at Walmart for many years. Primarily becuase of what they have done to small retailers and to American manufacturing.

This current labor dispute is just another reason not to shop there. From now on I will not shop there under any circumstances

It isn't that they don't pay workers well or give good benefits, it's the retaliation against workers speaking out.

I believe that workers have a right to free speech, even if it's critical of their employers.

Worker's right to free speech should be protected from any retaliation.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 24, 2012)

Richard-H said:


> I have avoided shopping at Walmart for many years. Primarily becuase of what they have done to small retailers and to American manufacturing.
> 
> This current labor dispute is just another reason not to shop there. From now on I will not shop there under any circumstances
> 
> ...



Please provide examples of the events you claim were caused by Walmart.
You are reminded that free speech is not absolute.
for example, you cannot use your voice or in written form to criticize your superiors or your employer. You will most likely be looking for other employment.
Now, you may believe the quickest way to combat such skulduggery is to find the nearest attorney to help you file a suit. Good luck with that. Once the employer's lawyer gets you in deposition, you'll be taken apart like a house of cards.
Hey, go running through your office and scream "MY BOSS SUCKS!!!"...Hey freedom of speech, right? 
RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT....


----------



## Foxfyre (Nov 24, 2012)

I have a friend, a member of my church, who has worked for Wal-mart for many years and who has turned down better paying jobs because she LIKES working at Wal-mart.  And she was one asked to work Thanksgiving night for the opening of Black Friday.  She agreed to because she got double pay plus, if she wanted it, she got the rest of the weekend off.  She said she had the option of declining to work Thursday night, but she didn't mind and really enjoyed having yesterday off to do whatever she wanted.

According to the news, only about 50 Wal-mart employees nationwide participated in the protests.  All the others were a handful of former employees and most non-related union buster types bussed in from all over the place to stage protests at targeted Wal-marts.  This was at least partially funded by George Soro's Moveon.org and was purely politically motivated social engineering.


----------



## usmcstinger (Nov 24, 2012)

Samson said:


> usmcstinger said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



And your point is?


----------



## Foxfyre (Nov 24, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> > The unions only interest in Walmart is the great untapped source of income from collecting union dues from it's employees should they be able to unionize.  Aside from that, the union could give a rat's ass about Walmart employees.
> ...



They go after Walmart because it is the biggest, eclipsing all the others.  And if the Unions are successful in bring Walmart down, then they go after the others with far fewer resources to resist them.  The goal of course is to put the entire country under the thumb of the union bosses and they have an Administration in the White House and at lest part of Congress who will aid and abet them in that process.

*12 large corporations who pay the least*:
J.C. Penney &#8211; employs 159,000
Darden Restaurants &#8211; employs 165,475
Wendy&#8217;s &#8211; employs 168,672
Macy&#8217;s &#8211; employs 171,000
DineEquity &#8211; employs 173,350
Starbucks &#8211; employs 176,533
Burger King &#8211; employs 191,815
Sears &#8211; employs 264,000
Target &#8211; employs 365,000
McDonalds &#8211; employs 859,978
Yum! Brands &#8211; employs 880,330
Walmart &#8211; employs 1,400,000
The 12 Companies Paying Americans the Least - 24/7 Wall St.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 24, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> The goal of course is to put the entire country under the thumb of the union bosses



yep that is the liberal goal indeed, and the high prices it will cause will drive another drive another 20 million jobs offshore.  They ruined manufacturing and now they want to ruin retailing. Its just that stupid and liberal.


----------



## Foxfyre (Nov 24, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > The goal of course is to put the entire country under the thumb of the union bosses
> ...



The thing is that I'm going to guess that every one of those 12 companies I listed was open on Thanksgiving evneing, but Walmart is the one targeted as the big bad bully, anthema to families, and terrible to their employees.  But the fact that those companies 'pay the least' means what they pay their entry level workers to start.  Those who stay with all of those businesses and qualify themselves for more responsibility can make some pretty good salaries which is why they all have retirement plans and employees who retire from those companies.


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## Staidhup (Nov 24, 2012)

If this economy continues to improve as it has we all will be shopping at Walmart.


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## thanatos144 (Nov 24, 2012)

I guess They wanted their jobs more then they wanted a union now if hostess just thought that way I would be eating a Twinkies now.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 24, 2012)

Staidhup said:


> If this economy continues to improve as it has we all will be shopping at Walmart.



Of the 12 companies I listed, the one that is on the brink of bankruptcy is J.C. Penney and you don't get any more history and tradition than you have with that company that has been around for my entire and ever longer life.   But I don't buy the $45 sweatshirt a Penneys when I can get one that is just as good for $20 at Wal-mart.  I did shop at Penneys when I needed better quality work clothes and dress up clothes, but I don't need either much any more.  But I do like my sweatshirts, especailly this time of year.

Walmart provides products that broadly appeal to lower middle income people who like nice stuff but smply can't afford high end prices to have it.   Our old TV in the master bedroom was shooting out sparks recently and we figured it would be a good idea to replace it.  We checked maybe eight different retailers here in town, but found the best deal at Walmart.  It's not a high end fancy TV, but it looks good and provides a perfectly adequate picture and it serves our needs very well.

The sad thing is, none of the retailers had any made in America TVs.


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## Synthaholic (Nov 24, 2012)

I walked into a Walmart the other day for one thing, and I walked out of Walmart with one thing.


True story!


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## Immanuel (Nov 24, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> I walked into a Walmart the other day for one thing, and I walked out of Walmart with one thing.
> 
> 
> True story!



Your wife?  

Immie


----------



## Katzndogz (Nov 24, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Staidhup said:
> 
> 
> > If this economy continues to improve as it has we all will be shopping at Walmart.
> ...



That's because there are no American television manufacturers.

The last American made television was Zenith and it went out of business and sold to Goldstar in 1995.
Last U.S. TV Maker Will Sell Control to Koreans - NYTimes.com

If it brings any comfort, televisions are still made here, the factories are just owned by foreign interests.


----------



## Synthaholic (Nov 24, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > I walked into a Walmart the other day for one thing, and I walked out of Walmart with one thing.
> ...


No, some pain killer.


The opposite of wife.


----------



## Papageorgio (Nov 24, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> I walked into a Walmart the other day for one thing, and I walked out of Walmart with one thing.
> 
> 
> True story!



I walked in to a Walmart the other day, it hurt.


----------



## tooAlive (Nov 24, 2012)

I shop at Wal-Mart because it's cheap, and has almost everything I'm looking for when I go out for errands.

If they have a strict advancement policy then maybe their employees should see it as a stepping stone and consider applying for jobs elsewhere.


----------



## dpsibley (Nov 25, 2012)

Why is the Walmart subsidiary Sam's Club also include in the question/discussion?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Nov 26, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> LOL!
> 
> I used to get clothes at Wal Mart. Then I realized that it was cheaper for my to buy more expensive clothing somewhere else because the durability of the clothes at Wal-Mart is practically non-existent. A $50 pair of pants that lasts 5 years is cheaper than a $10 pair that lasts 6 months.



What you illustrate here is a big part of the value proposition. "Cheaper" is not always less expensive. The same holds true with labor, often times it's less expensive to hire a a skilled worker at a higher wage.


----------



## jasonnfree (Nov 26, 2012)

I took a neighbor there the other day so he could return something.  Walked around killing time. Nice place but I won't buy from them.  The big box stores like Walmart are what's destroying America's small stores and main streets.  I miss individual specialty stores that they have run out of business.  They have become really big time shot callers. I see they sell groceries now also.  And I know they have been doing optometry for a while.   What's next?  What's left?  Auto dealerships inside your friendly Walmart.  Is this what capitalism is?  I don't believe  Walmart would have grown into the giant it is without generous subsidies.  We all pay for these subsidies in the long run.  Is it really capitalism if a business like Walmart or Cabela's  get subsidies that small businesses that they run out of business don't get?


----------



## Mr Natural (Nov 26, 2012)

The one thing I do like about the big box stores is that you can return anything at anytime for a full refund.

The Mom and Pops (as good as they were) were lacking in this area.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Nov 26, 2012)

Luissa said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



Considering that I already explained that to you in great detail, that simply proves how incredibly stupid and obtuse you really are.  Go work on it quietly somewhere and stop bothering the grown-ups, Toots.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Nov 26, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



I don't know where liberals got the idea that employees of a company have to be able to afford to purchase that company's products, like that's some sort of gold-standard, written gospel.  How many of the people who work at shipyards can actually afford a yacht?  How many of Tiffany's employees actually shop there?  Do you suppose the people at high-end department stores would shop there if they didn't have an employee discount?


----------



## Koios (Nov 26, 2012)

Back on topic: no; I do not shop at Walmart, nor Sam's Club.

Why?  As for Sam's, I'm in Kirkland, where Costco began, and I am thus loyal to Costco, plus they pay the above average wages ... and, whadaya know, Costco has great prices, too.  Imagine that.  Decent, livable wages for their workers, and milk isn't $20 a gallon.  In fact, Costco kicks Sam's Club butt, while paying a better wage.  Maybe life as we know it will not come to an end if Walmart and other companies like it were to pay a decent wage.

And in re: Walmart, they do not have dry-aged prime steaks, great cured meats from Italy and Spain nor top-quality organic produce and dairy.  So Metropolitan Market, which makes Whole Foods seem cut-rate, is my preferred.  Spendy, and yet ironically, they do not pay as well as Costco, albeit, nor as poorly as Walmart, and stores like Walmart.

So I'm having a devil of a time thinking of a single example where decent wages made the things we buy more expensive.  Righties seem to think they will.  But I challenge any one of them to show where decent wages made a store's products unaffordable.


----------



## Foxfyre (Nov 26, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



Very true.  A lot of employees who work for retailers selling high value merchandise can't afford a lot of the products they sell.  The thing about Walmart is that their employees CAN afford to shop there and I would guess that the huge majority of them do.


----------



## Koios (Nov 26, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



From Henry Ford, I believe.  Also, FDR, who rightly said that any business that does not pay a living wage has no right to exist in our society.

And it seems they were right, having raised wages for manufacturing workers, simply to give them more money.  Same work, same value (whatever the fuck that is) just more money for doing the same thing ... and whataya know? *Glory Days!!!!*

Maybe we need a Glory Days redux, now that more of our people are moving into service jobs:  Up the minimum wage by 80%, as we did in 1950, which cut unemployment in half in the 24 months following.  Back up workers who wish to organize, and not have Labor (the department) sucking business lobby dick.  Require overtime and weekend pay.  Just to name a few things we can do to improve the American middle class, since neither businesses nor the wealthy seem to be doing that for us, despite 30 years of Righty claims they would.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 26, 2012)

Koios said:


> Also, FDR, who rightly said that any business that does not pay a living wage has no right to exist in our society.



FDR is great to quote on economics since he kept Great Depression going for 10 years!!

In fact, all Republican capitalist businesses must pay the highest possible wage or lose their best workers to those who will. This is why Americans are the richest in human history.

Now even you can understand the basics of capitalism.


----------



## Koios (Nov 26, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Also, FDR, who rightly said that any business that does not pay a living wage has no right to exist in our society.
> ...



What, since you're schooling me, did FDR do that caused the GD to go 10 years longer than Hoover policies would have otherwise caused it to last?

I'm all fucking ears, and giddy in anticipation of being schooled.

So thanks in advance.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 26, 2012)

Koios said:


> What, since you're schooling me, did FDR do that caused the GD to go 10 years longer than Hoover policies would have otherwise caused it to last?
> 
> I'm all fucking ears, and giddy in anticipation of being schooled.
> 
> So thanks in advance.



always happy to school a liberal. FDR was anti-business/anti capitalist so everything he did prolonged the Depression. Did you notice liberalism failed in the USSR, Communist CHina, East Germany Cuba??


----------



## Koios (Nov 26, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > What, since you're schooling me, did FDR do that caused the GD to go 10 years longer than Hoover policies would have otherwise caused it to last?
> ...



Then let not your happiness be futher delayed.  School me: as in what the mechanisms were, i.e. specific policies and their effects.

Have a fucking ball.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 26, 2012)

Koios said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



for example, enormous public works projects that sucked money out of the private economy thus preventing it from recovering. Econ 101 for you, class one day one. Sorry

Did you notice liberalism failed in the USSR, Communist CHina, East Germany Cuba??


----------



## Koios (Nov 26, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...



Gotcha. So in one of them lofty 101 level econ courses, they explain how X amount spent building the Grand Coulee Dam, for example, extended the Great Depression by a certain number of months, just by chance coming out to an even 10 years, do they?  Dang.  Gotta get me one of them classes.  Sounds interesting as shit.

(hint: I've taken it and much more, and never once did the prof say that cause and effect are round numbers, wild assertions or other horseshit pulled straight out of our asses. We actually have to go into things, and understand them.  But if it helps, that too can be interesting.  I thus encourge you give it a shot.)


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 26, 2012)

Koios said:


> Gotcha. So in one of them lofty 101 level econ courses, they explain how X amount spent building the Grand Coulee Dam, for example, extended the Great Depression by a certain number of months, just by chance coming out to an even 10 years, do they?  Dang.  Gotta get me one of them classes.  Sounds interesting as shit.




dear, they say it harms the private economy by taking the money from it, they don't say how much it harms the economy or for how long. Welcome to Econ 101.




Koios said:


> wild assertions or other horseshit



dear, if you think  taxing the private economy to pay for a huge public works project will help the private economy why not try to explain how that could possibly happen rather than try to change the subject and hope no one will notice??


----------



## Dick Tuck (Nov 26, 2012)

Why would anyone celebrate the birth of Christ, by purchasing gifts manufactured in near slave conditions?


----------



## Koios (Nov 26, 2012)

Dick Tuck said:


> Why would anyone celebrate the birth of Christ, by purchasing gifts manufactured in near slave conditions?



It warms us up for the closing act: Large rabbit leaving chocolate eggs in our yard, praise Baby Jesus.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 26, 2012)

Dick Tuck said:


> Why would anyone celebrate the birth of Christ, by purchasing gifts manufactured in near slave conditions?





so the workers will have jobs and not starve to death, or become prostitutes. Got is down now??

In China everyone had near slave jobs, then they introduced Republican capitalism and now everyone is getting rich. Sorry about the inconvenient facts.


----------



## Koios (Nov 26, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > wild assertions or other horseshit
> ...



You're getting too far in front of me, Professor.  What taxes, exactly, and how did they affect sectors of the private economy?

You see, Professor, being I'm such a dimwit, I need some of them basics before we get to them there in summary parts.  Surely that's not lost on you, yeah Professor?


----------



## Koios (Nov 26, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> > Why would anyone celebrate the birth of Christ, by purchasing gifts manufactured in near slave conditions?
> ...



So what the PRC is calling "Socialism with Chinese characteristics" is Republican capitalism, ya reckon?

Hahahahahahahaha.  Ah, Righties.  Pure fucking comedy.  No shit.  I'm rolling, here.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Nov 26, 2012)

Koios said:


> Back on topic: no; I do not shop at Walmart, nor Sam's Club.



How about "Vlad's Club?"



> Why?  As for Sam's, I'm in Kirkland, where Costco began, and I am thus loyal to Costco, plus they pay the above average wages ...



Actually, Sam's and Costco pay about the same - but Costco employees have to give part of their pay to the glorious peoples party - Sam's employees don't.



> and, whadaya know, Costco has great prices, too.  Imagine that.  Decent, livable wages for their workers, and milk isn't $20 a gallon.  In fact, Costco kicks Sam's Club butt, while paying a better wage.  Maybe life as we know it will not come to an end if Walmart and other companies like it were to pay a decent wage.



Well, not exactly:

{As for the other categories evaluated by the researchers, Sams beat Costco in mostamong other things, Sams accepted more payment methods, offered better delivery and installation of electronics, and had more membership options and benefits.}

From your link.

I shop at both and they are within pennies of each other on the same items. You know why? Because THEY shop each other and set prices accordingly - competition helps consumers - a lesson communists simply can't grasp.



> And in re: Walmart, they do not have dry-aged prime steaks, great cured meats from Italy and Spain nor top-quality organic produce and dairy.  So Metropolitan Market, which makes Whole Foods seem cut-rate, is my preferred. Spendy,



Yeah, but you're a union goon paid $200K to read water meters, ignore people trying to renew their vehicle registration, or push a button on a machine - most people have to live within a budget.



> and yet ironically, they do not pay as well as Costco, albeit, nor as poorly as Walmart, and stores like Walmart.



Really? What does Walmart pay?



> So I'm having a devil of a time thinking of a single example where decent wages made the things we buy more expensive.  Righties seem to think they will.  But I challenge any one of them to show where decent wages made a store's products unaffordable.



Commies cry a lot about "mom and pop" stores - tell me, what are/were the wages at a family run grocer?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Nov 26, 2012)

Koios said:


> What, since you're schooling me, did FDR do that caused the GD to go 10 years longer than Hoover policies would have otherwise caused it to last?



Trick question, since both Hoover and FDR employed Keynesian stimulus to alter the business cycle. 

Roosevelt engaged in more extreme manifestation that even Lord Keynes condemned.

{I do not mean to impugn the social justice and social expediency of the redistribution of incomes aimed at by N.I.R.A. and by the various schemes for agricultural restriction. The latter, in particular, I should strongly support in principle. But too much emphasis on the remedial value of a higher price-level as an object in itself may lead to serious misapprehension as to the part which prices can play in the technique of recovery. The stimulation of output by increasing aggregate purchasing power is the right way to get prices up; and not the other way round.} JM Keynes

An Open Letter to President Roosevelt



> I'm all fucking ears, and giddy in anticipation of being schooled.



Too bad that you're not all fucking brains, or even a little bit so.



> So thanks in advance.



Economics is clearly not your forte - but I'll bet you can push the hell out of a "start" button on a press making fenders or bolts at the GM plant...


----------



## Koios (Nov 26, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Back on topic: no; I do not shop at Walmart, nor Sam's Club.
> ...



How about growing a functioning brain cell and canning the commie-card stpudity? Good idea?



Uncensored2008 said:


> > Why?  As for Sam's, I'm in Kirkland, where Costco began, and I am thus loyal to Costco, plus they pay the above average wages ...
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, Sam's and Costco pay about the same - but Costco employees have to give part of their pay to the glorious peoples party - Sam's employees don't.



You're wrong.  In fact, Wall Street Analysts frequently decry Costco's policy of paying above the prevailing wage.  No shit.  Check it out.  Learning can be fun, even.



Uncensored2008 said:


> Well, not exactly:
> 
> {As for the other categories evaluated by the researcher&#8217;s, Sam&#8217;s beat Costco in most&#8212;among other things, Sam&#8217;s accepted more payment methods, offered better delivery and installation of electronics, and had more membership options and benefits.}
> 
> ...



More commie-card stupidity? Astonishing.  How do you get dressed in the morning?

Now then, Costco had a smidge over 3% lower prices, in the test items.  And it out-sells Sam's Club by more than double.  I'd say that's kicking ass, even with folks making above the prevailing wage. Not too shabby.




Uncensored2008 said:


> Yeah, but you're a union goon paid $200K to read water meters, ignore people trying to renew their vehicle registration, or push a button on a machine - most people have to live within a budget.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



For checkers, which is the largest point-of-entry, the starting Walmart salary is $9 - $10, compared to Costco's $11.50, with built-in raises of $0.50 - $1.00 every 800 hours worked.

And no, I own a couple of business and do some business consulting.  I am not in, nor never have been in, nor ever been paid by a union.

Imagine you guessing wrong. Knock me over with a feather.



Uncensored2008 said:


> > So I'm having a devil of a time thinking of a single example where decent wages made the things we buy more expensive.  Righties seem to think they will.  But I challenge any one of them to show where decent wages made a store's products unaffordable.
> 
> 
> 
> Commies cry a lot about "mom and pop" stores - tell me, what are/were the wages at a family run grocer?



Do you fall down much?  Maybe your parents dropped you frequently when you were a child?  What's with the repeated and retarded commie-card bullshit?  You got nothing else?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Nov 26, 2012)

Koios said:


> How about growing a functioning brain cell and canning the commie-card stpudity? Good idea?



Come on sparky, it's the perfect retail model for regressives. You sign over your entire paycheck, but everything in the store is free. Well, they're out of toilet paper and the only produce is cabbage - they'll get some meat in next month. It's perfect, the prelude to life in general in a few years.



> You're wrong.  In fact, Wall Street Analysts frequently decry Costco's policy of paying above the prevailing wage.  No shit.  Check it out.  Learning can be fun, even.



I'm not wrong, sparky. Both pay a fairly decent wage and offer decent benefits. 

SAM'S CLUB Hourly Pay | Glassdoor

PayScale - Costco Wholesale company Employer Wages, Hourly Wage Rate



> More commie-card stupidity? Astonishing.  How do you get dressed in the morning?



A bit touchy comrade, I thought the charade was over and you were out in the open?



> Now then, Costco had a smidge over 3% lower prices, in the test items.  And it out-sells Sam's Club by more than double.  I'd say that's kicking ass, even with folks making above the prevailing wage. Not too shabby.



So then your own link states that overall, prices are lower at Sam's - but both are close. Here in the Peoples Republic, both carry the same meat and are identical in price.



> For checkers, which is the largest point-of-entry, the starting Walmart salary is $9 - $10, compared to Costco's $11.50, with built-in raises of $0.50 - $1.00 every 800 hours worked.



I posted the actual pay charts, they are damned close in pay.



> And no, I own a couple of business and do some business consulting.  I am not in, nor never have been in, nor ever been paid by a union.



You're the queen of England too, right? 



> Imagine you guessing wrong. Knock me over with a feather.



Imagine, a Bolshevik on the internet claiming to be a business owner - nothing spells "entrepreneurial spirit" quite like hatred of commerce...




> Do you fall down much?  Maybe your parents dropped you frequently when you were a child?  What's with the repeated and retarded commie-card bullshit?  You got nothing else?



So, about these mom and pops, what wages do they pay? How about benefits? People are so much worse off after the big box stores, right comrade?


----------



## wavingrl (Nov 26, 2012)

The Lithonia Walmart made the news. A shoplifter, intent on stealing either 'DVD's' or DVD players, was apprehended by employees--he is dead. Investigations ongoing. If he had stolen DVD's--ridiculous in the first place--and not worth a life, in the second place.

I am certain that store has to deal with such incidents too frequently. IIRC, the incident occurred around 1:30 AM, Sunday.  Maybe they shouldn't stay open past 11PM. It was the holiday weekend--guess they thought it would be worth it. 

While everyone was at Walmart, I dropped by Home Depot for leaf/trash bags. Found a spot near the door--walked through the Garden Center--lots of good plants are available and they were already selling Christmas trees. The leaf/trash bags were conveniently placed inside the store. $1.88 for five. I paid the cashier--even got some change and was on my way.

That was the extent of my consumerism this weekend.


----------



## sakinago (Nov 26, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > How about growing a functioning brain cell and canning the commie-card stpudity? Good idea?
> ...


----------



## Foxfyre (Nov 26, 2012)

I have only anecdotal opinions of Costco vs Walmart.  But in  my experience:

Costco has some good bargains but also has a much higher buyer's beward environment than Walmart as some items are not discounted and some priced higher than what other stores charge.  The shopping experience at Cosgtco has much more of a warehouse feel than Walmart and their emplyees do not seem to enjoy their work as much as Walmart employees do.  Costco does pay somewha more but doesn't seem to have a better promotion or advancement policy.

Again I go to the people I know who work at Walmart who could make more elsewhere but stay at Walmart because they like their Walmart jobs.


----------



## Koios (Nov 26, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> I'm not wrong, sparky. Both pay a fairly decent wage and offer decent benefits.
> 
> SAM'S CLUB Hourly Pay | Glassdoor
> 
> PayScale - Costco Wholesale company Employer Wages, Hourly Wage Rate



Here's what the Wall Street analysts are whining about:



> The New York Times has a great article about Costco, the huge American chain of supermarkets who spend much more on their employees than their main competitors:
> 
> 
> Costcos average pay, for example, is $17 an hour, 42 percent higher than its fiercest rival, Sams Club. And Costcos health plan makes those at many other retailers look Scroogish.
> ...


----------



## Foxfyre (Nov 26, 2012)

Costco has 160,292 employees nationally and worldwide.
Walmart has 1.4 million employees.

Comparing Costco to Walmart is like comparing Rhode Island to Texas.


----------



## Koios (Nov 26, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Costco has 160,292 employees nationally and worldwide.
> Walmart has 1.4 million employees.
> 
> Comparing Costco to Walmart is like comparing Rhode Island to Texas.



Indeed.  Thus I compared it to Sam's Club, Costco's chief rival, and vice versa.  And Costco outsells Sam's Club by about 2-to-1.


----------



## sakinago (Nov 26, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > How about growing a functioning brain cell and canning the commie-card stpudity? Good idea?
> ...





Koios said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not wrong, sparky. Both pay a fairly decent wage and offer decent benefits.
> ...



Hey buddy, there is not much of a difference between costco and walmart. It just that costco supports your side of the political spectrum more than walmart does. And costco puts just as many ma and pa shops out as walmart does. 

I shop at both, and personally I prefer walmart. I like to buy my drinks and some food and the occasional clothes from costco, but the rest of my groceries and electronics come from walmart... I like the selection and atmosphere better. Electronics at costco aren't any sort of deal whatsoever, and I find that I pay more buying a piss ton of food I don't need but am kind of forced to buy at costco. At walmart, I get the food I need at a good price, and I got a 47 " smart tv at walmart for 300 bones, come on now thats a steal.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Nov 26, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> I have only anecdotal opinions of Costco vs Walmart.  But in  my experience:



Hi Foxy;

Walmart and Costco can't be compared - they are vastly different retail models. Costco, like Sam's Club, specializes in name brand, high quality goods, sold in bulk to reduce the overall cost. Food isn't really cheaper at Costco/Sam's, but the quality is WAY higher.



> Costco has some good bargains but also has a much higher buyer's beward environment than Walmart as some items are not discounted and some priced higher than what other stores charge.  The shopping experience at Cosgtco has much more of a warehouse feel than Walmart and their emplyees do not seem to enjoy their work as much as Walmart employees do.  Costco does pay somewha more but doesn't seem to have a better promotion or advancement policy.



Costco is a warehouse chain, so it should have that feel. On an exact item, I can generally ALWAYS get the item cheaper at Costco than Walmart - but I'll have to buy in bulk at Costco.



> Again I go to the people I know who work at Walmart who could make more elsewhere but stay at Walmart because they like their Walmart jobs.



We all do, those who attack Walmart are doing so on behalf of predatory unions. What they post is bullshit, they and we know it - they just want to increase the power of the Union monopoly.


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## Koios (Nov 26, 2012)

sakinago said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



Since we're buddies and all, maybe I can help:

You're a moron.  No shit.  It doesn't seem like you are, to you, since well, you'd have to not a be a moron to see that you are a moron.  Bit of a paradox, in your case.

So just take my word for it.  Seriously.  You're an idiot, probably bordering on drooling idiot.

And I'm a fool, for debating an idiot. But at least I'm aware of my foolishness, and can fix it.


Haste la bye-bye, Amigo.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 26, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > How about growing a functioning brain cell and canning the commie-card stpudity? Good idea?
> ...



the liberals don't want a law to control just Walmart and the health care industry, they want a socialist law to control the entire economy simply because they lack the IQ to understand capitalism. This is why they spied for Stalin.


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## HUGGY (Nov 26, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > How about growing a functioning brain cell and canning the commie-card stpudity? Good idea?
> ...



We had plenty of toilet paper before WalMart came along.  We had plenty of local stores to purchase in that paid living wages also.   People still shopped for the best bargains but the lowest prices did not mean sending all of the money circulating in our communities to China and one family in Tennessee or wherever the fuck the Waltons live.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 26, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> We had plenty of toilet paper before WalMart came along.  We had plenty of local stores to purchase in that paid living wages also.   People still shopped for the best bargains but the lowest prices did not mean sending all of the money circulating in our communities to China and one family in Tennessee or wherever the fuck the Waltons live.



so we'll pass a law such that all car companies and retail stores must be tiny so we'll have lots and lots of them!! It makes perfect sense, ........if you are a brain dead liberal.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 26, 2012)

Koios said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Costco has 160,292 employees nationally and worldwide.
> ...



I doubt Costco is earning twice the proft of  Sams Club but if they are, it is because they are making a profit while Sams sales have been flat lately.  And BJs is outperforming both.

Even after closing a number of its stores, Sams still operates about 600 stores nationwide.  Costco has about 400 and BJs, still an east coast player, has 200.

And it isn't an apple to apples comparison either as each chain has a different approach and its a matter of preference what anybody might prefer if they have a choice.  In most places you find a Costco OR a Sams Club OR a BJs and don't usually have easy access to all three.  We haven't belong to a Sams Club in years and we dropped our Costco membership this year because the prices aren't enough better than Walmart or Albertsons, both which are very near our home and don't charge a membership fee, and we just didn't think it worth it to pay the fee and drive across town to a Costco or Sams Club.  If we had a large family still at hone or otherwise bought large quantities of groceries and stuff, we might rethink that.

Also Costco doesn't have its own super centers competing with its membership club.


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## Koios (Nov 26, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Then go look, if it's of interest to you.


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## sakinago (Nov 26, 2012)

Koios said:


> sakinago said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



First of all you spelled hasta wrong, and bye-bye in the middle of a sentence is  not proper Spanish. 

Secondly, you didn't really back anything up when calling me an idiot. The main hate for walmart came from that documentary like 5 years ago talking about how its corporate evilness kills ma and pa shops. Now it has been shifted to they treat their employees like shit. Which is a weird statement since those employees could shift to other growing competition like target and costco that would be happy to take them, I guess walmart somehow forces their employees to stay there? Anyway, this hate comes from the fact that that they are not on the side of the haters political spectrum. Kind of hard to deny this, because that is human nature from a very, very young age (I am talking before the first year of life you can witness these actions in an infant). Humans tend to like those who fit in our group, and make an enemy of those who do not. This is also why politics is such a divisive topic. Look at what happened with Chic-fil-a earlier this year. The owner gave money to a christian organization that doesn't like the idea of gay marriage, they've been giving money to this organization (that does a lot more than just oppose gay marriage), but now all of a sudden Chic-fil-a is somehow full of hate, and has nothing but hate for homosexuals. Weird because they serve and hire everyone, but still poor on the hate somehow because the owner donates to an organization that he happens to like. Is this because they really do indeed hate the gays, or more because they are on the opposite side of the political spectrum?

Thirdly, would a drooling idiot get a 47" LG smart tv for 300 dollars? Sounds like a pretty savvy shopper to me.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 26, 2012)

Koios said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > thereisnospoon said:
> ...



Oh, yeah, it was fucking GLORIOUS when American manufacturing became almost entirely outsourced because of those "raised wages JUST to give them more money", as if it was any of FDR's fucking business what private companies paid.

If you want to have a "Glory Days Redux", you're first going to have to attract some manufacturing BACK here . . . so that you can repeat the process of driving it overseas.

What IS it with you retards that you keep trumpeting the wonders of what you did in the manufacturing sector, as though you can't SEE the manufacturing sector?  That's like an abusive mother pointing to her bruised and broken kid and bragging about how well-behaved she taught him to be.


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## HUGGY (Nov 26, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > We had plenty of toilet paper before WalMart came along.  We had plenty of local stores to purchase in that paid living wages also.   People still shopped for the best bargains but the lowest prices did not mean sending all of the money circulating in our communities to China and one family in Tennessee or wherever the fuck the Waltons live.
> ...



You can pass any law you want.  I would have no problem with the government working on behalf of the middle class by promoting buying American made products from local suppliers.

Walmart isn't breaking the law.  Walmart, the Waltons and the Chinese need no help from the U S government to stay in business.  The middle class of America is on the ropes and needs all the help we can legally direct towards them.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 26, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> The middle class of America is on the ropes and needs all the help we can legally direct towards them.



Yes, and we'll help them out by making big stores and big car companies illegal so that we'll have many many stores and car companies and prices will be 5 times higher than they are already!!

It makes perfect sense,....if you are a brain dead liberal!


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## Foxfyre (Nov 26, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



And our state is dotted with the boarded up remnants of small communities that didn't get a Walmart but simply couldn't sustain the Mom and Pop businesses either.  And as the Mom and Pop businesses close down, everybody who has to work moves away.  Sometimes that happens in communtiies that do get a Walmart too, but more often the Walmart provides enough jobs to keep the community viable and provides an anchor for small specialty stores that offer products or services that Walmart doesn't.

Nostalgia is wonderful for leisurely discussions over a beer or ice tea, but the world is changing.   The buying public says they mourn the passing of the mom and pop stores, but they have made it clear that given a choice, most prefer the big box stores.  Thus in a city like mine, the stores in the malls and shopping centers have learned to adapt to the big box stores again by offering specialty products and services the big box stores don't provide.

And I imagine in another 50 to 100 years, delivery of products and services will be entirely different than they are now.  And people then will be mourning the good old days when they could make fun of the funny looking people shpping at Walmart.


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## Koios (Nov 26, 2012)

sakinago said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > sakinago said:
> ...



I'll get over it, since butchering Spanish while in Spain or Mexico is the price I'll pay from now until death for speaking some Portuguese (Brasileiro).    I can't help but segue into it when struggling with Spanish, and the looks I get are pretty hilarious.

As for the second part, of course I didn't.  That was all your doing.

Lastly, while I understand the Walmart-hate, I do not subscribe to it.  They're playing by our rules, so how can I fault them?  Thus I advocate the rules be changed.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 26, 2012)

Koios said:


> Thus I advocate the rules be changed.




Great idea!!! so we'll pass a law such that all car companies and retail stores must be tiny so we'll have lots and lots of them!! It makes perfect sense, ........if you are a brain dead liberal.


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## Koios (Nov 26, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Why?  What's so magical about it? (tip: not a lot)

With off-shore manufacture, some of your buck goes off shore; round about 5 to 7 cents.  The rest of the value-chain is right here: transport and retail.  Perhaps you'll note all the billionaires, here, who own Walmart, Costco, Amazon, Kroger, Home Depot, etc.  Thus the problem of solving a low-paid workforce is as easy today as when we solved it for low-paid factory workers (pay them more; easy)

And something else happens: the Chinese no longer have cheap US labor helping bring their products to market in the US.  Maybe US based manufacturing of some products can return, where a couple pennies on the dollar, along with no cross planet shipping, make them competitive, and thus the "Made in USA" lable has a lower cost differential at the point-of-sale.


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## Koios (Nov 26, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Thus I advocate the rules be changed.
> ...



Then revive my brain.  Explain the economic dynamic to which you allude.  Prove me the idiot.

Have a fucking ball. Hahahahahaha


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 26, 2012)

Koios said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



You're REALLY this out-of-touch?  Economists have known this for a while, although I'll admit it took the really dedicated LIBERAL economists a while to get on board.

FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate / UCLA Newsroom

_Using data collected in 1929 by the Conference Board and the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Cole and Ohanian were able to establish average wages and prices across a range of industries just prior to the Depression. By adjusting for annual increases in productivity, they were able to use the 1929 benchmark to figure out what prices and wages would have been during every year of the Depression had Roosevelt's policies not gone into effect. They then compared those figures with actual prices and wages as reflected in the Conference Board data.

In the three years following the implementation of Roosevelt's policies, wages in 11 key industries averaged 25 percent higher than they otherwise would have done, the economists calculate. But unemployment was also 25 percent higher than it should have been, given gains in productivity.

Meanwhile, prices across 19 industries averaged 23 percent above where they should have been, given the state of the economy. *With goods and services that much harder for consumers to afford, demand stalled and the gross national product floundered at 27 percent below where it otherwise might have been.*

"High wages and high prices in an economic slump run contrary to everything we know about market forces in economic downturns," Ohanian said. "As we've seen in the past several years, salaries and prices fall when unemployment is high. *By artificially inflating both, the New Deal policies short-circuited the market's self-correcting forces*."_

Why don't you go tell UCLA's Department of Economics what a bunch of wrongheaded conservatives they are, and how you know better?

My favorite part of the entire article:

"_Why the Great Depression lasted so long has always been a great mystery, and because we never really knew the reason, we have always worried whether we would have another 10- to 15-year economic slump," said Ohanian, vice chair of UCLA's Department of Economics. "*We found that a relapse isn't likely unless lawmakers gum up a recovery with ill-conceived stimulus policies*."_

Whoops!


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## Koios (Nov 26, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...



My oh my, how easily ya'll drink up the koolaid, brewed by a coupla rightie-economists, with some funding from the anti-tax misinformation crowd.

And all it takes to prove the thesis?  *Recast history!*  Bingo.  WSJ and other Murdock media will run with it like rabbits from a pack of coyotes.  And with enough rightie idiots buying in, it may even go viral.

Hahahahahahahahaha.  Ahh, morons.  Goddamnit they're entertaining.

(The right-wing New Deal conniption fit - Salon.com)


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 26, 2012)

Koios said:


> My oh my, how easily ya'll drink up the koolaid, brewed by a coupla rightie-economists,



dear, if you say FDR did not prolong the Depression with liberal policies for 10 years you must say why or admit as a liberal you lack the education, IQ, and character to do so.

You seems to want to comment on economics but have no substance whatsoever. Do you think you are fooling anyone or proving that liberalism is based on ignorance???


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 26, 2012)

Koios said:


> Explain the economic dynamic to which you allude.  Prove me the idiot.



dear, you are an economic idiot at least, since you have never been able to contribute they tiniest amount of substance here. Liberals hate Walmart so in effect want to break it up and in theory want to break up all big efficient enterprises for the same reason and replace them with millions of tiny inefficient enterprises.

THe result would be diminished economies of scale, super high prices , and instant poverty for Americans.


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## Koios (Nov 26, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Explain the economic dynamic to which you allude.  Prove me the idiot.
> ...



No argument. 

Now then, what substance have you in support of your thesis?


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 26, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



Or a framer who cannot afford the homes he helps build. Or countless other workers engaged in occupations which make or sell things that are far out of their league.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 26, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> I have only anecdotal opinions of Costco vs Walmart.  But in  my experience:
> 
> Costco has some good bargains but also has a much higher buyer's beward environment than Walmart as some items are not discounted and some priced higher than what other stores charge.  The shopping experience at Cosgtco has much more of a warehouse feel than Walmart and their emplyees do not seem to enjoy their work as much as Walmart employees do.  Costco does pay somewha more but doesn't seem to have a better promotion or advancement policy.
> 
> Again I go to the people I know who work at Walmart who could make more elsewhere but stay at Walmart because they like their Walmart jobs.



Warehouse Clubs do not necessarily have better deals. I look at unit pricing and other factors.
For example, there are just three of us in our family. So while those large quantity packages look like good deals, buying perishable items is no bargain 
Anyway, the Costco here seem to have decent employees. I detect no morale issues.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 26, 2012)

Koios said:


> sakinago said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...


No. You have it wrong. You're an unconditional fool.
You say you own a business and come on here with your "do as I say, not as I do" bullshit.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 26, 2012)

sakinago said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > sakinago said:
> ...



The main source of hatred for Walmart comes from the fact that Sam Walton was and has passed on a vehement opposition to unions. 
Union people are into this "respect" thing. Eve when unions are not wanted, their leadership still believes they are entitled to their "tribute".
Precisely the reason why pro union people on here at the end of every argument will conclude with "unions got you the 40 hour work week, benefits" etc ad nauseum. As though even though we have no interest in belonging to a labor collective, we should all kneel at the union altar.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 26, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...


If you want government involved in your life to that extent them by all means, YOU pay for it. Don't demand the rest of us have your schemes rammed down our throats.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 26, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...



With FDR's rampant deficit spending on public make work projects, but for our entry into WWII which BTW FDR was vehemently opposed, the Great Depression may have lasted well in to the 1950's


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 26, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...


The death knell of the traditional mom and pop retail outlet began in the 1960's with the advent of the suburban shopping mall.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 26, 2012)

Koios said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



"Nahhh.  Reading linked articles is for pussies.  In fact, reading POSTS is for pussies.  I don't need to read what you said to respond to it.  Just label all your sources 'rightie economists', and then move right into declaring myself correct."

FLUSH!


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 26, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > My oh my, how easily ya'll drink up the koolaid, brewed by a coupla rightie-economists,
> ...



Hey, Edward, did YOU know that UCLA's faculty is a hotbed of conservatism?  It's true, 'cause Koios said so.


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## thanatos144 (Nov 26, 2012)

jasonnfree said:


> I took a neighbor there the other day so he could return something.  Walked around killing time. Nice place but I won't buy from them.  The big box stores like Walmart are what's destroying America's small stores and main streets.  I miss individual specialty stores that they have run out of business.  They have become really big time shot callers. I see they sell groceries now also.  And I know they have been doing optometry for a while.   What's next?  What's left?  Auto dealerships inside your friendly Walmart.  Is this what capitalism is?  I don't believe  Walmart would have grown into the giant it is without generous subsidies.  We all pay for these subsidies in the long run.  Is it really capitalism if a business like Walmart or Cabela's  get subsidies that small businesses that they run out of business don't get?



tell me what stores did they kill?


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## ScienceRocks (Nov 26, 2012)

YES, YES, YES

I can't wait until they get the self CHECKOUT at my walmart!!! I normally only get a few things and don't want to fuck around.


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## thanatos144 (Nov 26, 2012)

I think I figured it out........Progressives hate Wal-Mart for two reasons... One it doesn't have the communist party union living off the sweat of the employees AND two they cant stand that the unwashed masses have the ability to buy things that they feel only them the elite should have... Like TV's and Computers and Socks.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 27, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> I think I figured it out........Progressives hate Wal-Mart for two reasons... One it doesn't have the communist party union living off the sweat of the employees AND two they cant stand that the unwashed masses have the ability to buy things that they feel only them the elite should have... Like TV's and Computers and Socks.



I think they hate Walmart because it pays low wages to those who stock shelves and point out where things are. I guess a liberal wants rocket scientists to get paid very little and Walmart folks a lot??


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## Foxfyre (Nov 27, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > I think I figured it out........Progressives hate Wal-Mart for two reasons... One it doesn't have the communist party union living off the sweat of the employees AND two they cant stand that the unwashed masses have the ability to buy things that they feel only them the elite should have... Like TV's and Computers and Socks.
> ...



No, I think they think that Walmart executives/owners don't deserve their very large salaries and that a whole lot of what they make should be taken in taxes so that the folks who work for them will be paid a 'living wage' depending on your definition of that.

Of course they don't consider that if some folks who know what they are doing and can juggle all the necessary components weren't running stores like those Walmarts, the 1.4+ million Walmart employees might not have those jobs at all.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 27, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> The death knell of the traditional mom and pop retail outlet began in the 1960's with the advent of the suburban shopping mall.



And the death knell of Walmart began in 1997 with the advent of Amazon.com

Buggy whip makers pass away. Brick and mortar is living on borrowed time - even Walmart.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 27, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> > The death knell of the traditional mom and pop retail outlet began in the 1960's with the advent of the suburban shopping mall.
> ...


.

We could give in to the liberals and just pass a law that all retail and all business should feature very high wages and very high prices. IT would make them so happy.

In the end a liberal simply lacks the IQ to understand capitalism.


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## Koios (Nov 27, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > thereisnospoon said:
> ...



Or we could mandate a decent minimum wage and the drooling idiot trailer trash Righties could still shop there affordability since higher wage minimums do not track to higher inflation, which all who have IQs north of a potato should know.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 27, 2012)

Koios said:


> Or we could mandate a decent minimum wage and the drooling idiot trailer trash Righties could still shop there affordability since higher wage minimums do not track to higher inflation, which all who have IQs north of a potato should know.



$100.00 an hour?

As a business tycoon, you run all of your wildly successful businesses to care for the families of the poor, downtrodden people who work for you. And that's the purpose of business, to care for the workers, right sparky?


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## Koios (Nov 27, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Or we could mandate a decent minimum wage and the drooling idiot trailer trash Righties could still shop there affordability since higher wage minimums do not track to higher inflation, which all who have IQs north of a potato should know.
> ...



No.  Circa $12 / hour.


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## Koios (Nov 27, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Or we could mandate a decent minimum wage and the drooling idiot trailer trash Righties could still shop there affordability since higher wage minimums do not track to higher inflation, which all who have IQs north of a potato should know.
> ...



Meanwhile businesses are out to make profit and reduce costs where possible in service of that goal. 

So wage minimums and other policies protect businesses from imploding under the weight of their own greed, by not allowing them to destroy the middle class their businesses depend upon.


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## Amelia (Nov 27, 2012)

Mandating a higher wage gives people a brief burst of higher buying power, which soon evaporates as all the people around them work the higher figures into their parts of the economy.  

And out go more jobs from the U.S. because the U.S. just became that much less competitive with the rest of the world.


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## Koios (Nov 27, 2012)

Amelia said:


> Mandating a higher wage gives people a brief burst of higher buying power, which soon evaporates as all the people around them work the higher figures into their parts of the economy.
> 
> And out go more jobs from the U.S. because the U.S. just became that much less competitive with the rest of the world.



Nope. It has legs and keeps on keeping on. Only temporary tax cuts are short term fixes.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 27, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> > The death knell of the traditional mom and pop retail outlet began in the 1960's with the advent of the suburban shopping mall.
> ...



This is a good point too.  Except that Walmart is adapting and has a vigorous and user friendly website and on line sales that are competing very well with Amazon.  And Walmart has the added advantage of giving you the option of having the stuff delivered or picked up at the store.  To compete Amazon is adding more and products to compete with the retail stores and has the added advantage of including an Ebay kind of service.  I notice the last couple of years Amazon is also partnering with a lot of other retailers no doubt to compensate for their lack of warehouse space compared to Walmart and other big box retailers.

But just as the transportation industry morphed from wagon and buggy into trains, planes, and automobile and so much of farming has transformed from labor intensive to almost fully automated and the mom and pop stores morphed into big shopping centers, malls, and big box stores, the whole system no doubt will change again as we move through this century into the next.  And some will resist and resent that too.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 27, 2012)

Amelia said:


> Mandating a higher wage gives people a brief burst of higher buying power, which soon evaporates as all the people around them work the higher figures into their parts of the economy.
> 
> And out go more jobs from the U.S. because the U.S. just became that much less competitive with the rest of the world.



WE know that, and YOU know that, but leftists have attention spans shorter than the lives of mayflies.  They're all about the instant result, and anything that takes place after the first nanosecond is viewed as a completely separate and shocking event, totally unrelated.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 27, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> > The death knell of the traditional mom and pop retail outlet began in the 1960's with the advent of the suburban shopping mall.
> ...



What in the HELL are you yammering about?
Look here genius. THere will always be a section of the population that will not ever shop on line. These are people who have the need to do business with a person, look at an item before they buy, and have a place where if the item does not meet their needs or is broken, to return it for credit or refund.
Besides, when has there been a law passed prohibiting companies with physical plants from doing business on line?


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 27, 2012)

Koios said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



HUH? Higher wages( i.e. more money in the supply) is not inflationary?
Facepalm.
Look, labor is the highest percentage of the cost of doing business. Therefore higher abor costs either eat into the bottom line or prices are increased by the seller. 
At the end of the day, if you libs want to live by 'the rising tide" axiom, you must live by it 100%
In other words, a sudden increase in wages mandated by the government may be a temporary fix, but would more likely resemble a fiscal sugar rush. Eventually, prices would increase to make up for the higher labor costs. 
Then we'd have to endure the cries of "NO FAIR" from you fiscal geniuses on the political left


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 27, 2012)

Koios said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> > Mandating a higher wage gives people a brief burst of higher buying power, which soon evaporates as all the people around them work the higher figures into their parts of the economy.
> ...



Can we derive from your comments that you believe that wages exist in a vacuum?


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## Immanuel (Nov 27, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > thereisnospoon said:
> ...



I believe his point was that someday (not necessarily soon) the Walmart business model will become obsolete and I suspect he is right. I don't know what will take its place, but eventually Walmart will go the way of Ma Bell.

Hell, if unions and their thugs get their way, this could happen sooner rather than later and all those people will be out of work.  But the unions don't care, they resisted unionization for too long.

Immie


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## skye (Nov 27, 2012)

Sure I shop at K-Mart (that's how its called here) 

So many  well known cosmetics brands at such a cheap price .... it's all good! YUM!


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## thanatos144 (Nov 27, 2012)

I am telling you progressives hate Walmart because they make things affordable and if we the unwashed can buy shit then we don't need them


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## Againsheila (Nov 27, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > thanatos144 said:
> ...



How about we agree that the Walmart Execs deserve higher pay than the stock boys but the stock boys should still make enough to provide a roof over their heads, food in the stomach, health care, transportation and utilities?  It shouldn't be a family wage but it should darn sure be a living wage.


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## Immanuel (Nov 27, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...



While I am loathe not to pay people who work for me a decent salary, who decides what a "living wage" is?  A living wage for an 18 year old living at home is not the same thing as a living wage for a 22 year old trying to work her way through college.

Managers set wages based on the going market in the area they are trying to hire.  They offer the wages that are necessary to get the desired level of work.  They try not to pay any more than they have to in order to get that desired level of work.

If an employee can't live on Walmart wages as a stock boy then perhaps they need to apply for a different position either with Walmart or another company.  They should not just demand Walmart pay them $20/hr if Walmart can find employees that want to work for them for $10/hr.

Immie


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## thanatos144 (Nov 27, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


 why do they deserve to be paid enough to have a roof over thier heads?


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## Immanuel (Nov 27, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Because in America, everyone deserves to live in a mansion... didn't you know that?

Immie


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## skye (Nov 27, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



Mansions are nice! 

what...

 aren't they?


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## Immanuel (Nov 27, 2012)

skye said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > thanatos144 said:
> ...



Of course they are... but I don't deserve to live in one if I am not going to work my ass off to earn it. 

Also, who the hell wants to live in a mansion anyway?  Too much damned upkeep to enjoy life!  Oh wait, maybe we all deserve servants as well?

Immie


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## Connery (Nov 27, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



We sure do too!!!!


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## skye (Nov 27, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...




I grew up with two nannies and a cook ... a gardener came once a week 

Not any more though ... nope ...no way  LOL 

I have nice memories  of the past ....


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## Connery (Nov 27, 2012)

skye said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > skye said:
> ...



That was me and I quit once I could afford my own mansion and people to take care of me....


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## Immanuel (Nov 27, 2012)

skye said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > skye said:
> ...



Most likely though, your parents put in the effort required to hire two nannies, a cook and a gardener.  They didn't just assume that because they were liberals they deserved it.

Immie


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## skye (Nov 27, 2012)

Connery said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...




Well that is  fine and dandy Sir!


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## ScienceRocks (Nov 27, 2012)

Pay above market value=devaluing the money supply=lower buying power.


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## skye (Nov 27, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...




My parents were NEVER on the left .... bless their souls


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## Connery (Nov 27, 2012)

skye said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > skye said:
> ...



Actually, I did have a wonderful person named Louise who was a very sweet person. The only problem is that I liked my shirts done a certain way so I would iron them myself and she got offended and wanted to leave so I gave her a raise and  promised not to interfere.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 27, 2012)

I've worked a lot of jobs for less than a living wage and was glad to have the work.  But I didn't plan to stay in those jobs.  If I didn't have opportunity to prove my ability to qualify for a much better paying job after a reasonable time, I moved on.  Nobody is owed a living.  Nobody who has achieved the age of majority deserves a living he or she has not worked for.   It is up to us to educate ourselves, earn decent references, and acquire marketable skills that qualify us for a living wage and then we have a shot at convincing an employer to hire us at a wage we can living on.

Evenso a living wage for a kid still living at home is a very different animal than is the person who has to pay rent, transportation, living expenses, food, clothing, etc. in Albuquerque, and a living wage in Albuquerque is far less than somebody living in San Francisco or Washington DC.


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...



Correct. No correlation. Check history on it.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 28, 2012)

Koios said:


> No.  Circa $12 / hour.



How can your workers support a family of 9 on $12 an hour? Even if they could, you need to add another $10 an hour so he can send it home to Mexico.

After all, a business is only there to care for the workers, comrade.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 28, 2012)

Koios said:


> Meanwhile businesses are out to make profit and reduce costs where possible in service of that goal.



No Comrade, only the greedy, running dog capitalists do that. You as a business tycoon, run your billion dollar industries only to benefit the poor and downtrodden.



> So wage minimums and other policies protect businesses from imploding under the weight of their own greed, by not allowing them to destroy the middle class their businesses depend upon.



BWAHAHAHAHA

You literally make me laugh out loud. You really are 14, aren't you?


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > No.  Circa $12 / hour.
> ...



By combining two minimum wage incomes, a mom and dad will have very near the median household income in the US.  About $49 grand a year, combined.  It's not a life filled with luxuries, but neither is it a life of poverty.

Thanks for asking.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 28, 2012)

Amelia said:


> Mandating a higher wage gives people a brief burst of higher buying power, which soon evaporates as all the people around them work the higher figures into their parts of the economy.
> 
> And out go more jobs from the U.S. because the U.S. just became that much less competitive with the rest of the world.



Adolescents like Koios have no grasp of economics and finance. That raising the minimum wage will simply spur inflation is a concept far too sophisticated for the sophomoric thinking he engages in.

To the mind of a child, if McDonalds is forced to pay $12 an hour, then the greedy owners will just make a little less profit. Adults understand that McDonalds will simply raise their prices, a lot - since the baker, butcher, warehouse, et al, also had to increase wages. Prices across the board will shoot up. Purchasing power will seek equilibrium - in other words, a dollars worth of work will seek to purchase the same goods after the inflated wage as before. The price of goods and services will simply rise to reach this state.


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> > Mandating a higher wage gives people a brief burst of higher buying power, which soon evaporates as all the people around them work the higher figures into their parts of the economy.
> ...



Then school me on the impact of a $12 minimum wage on the unit labor cost in the US.  Can you, bitch?

If so, I'm all fucking ears.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 28, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> This is a good point too.  Except that Walmart is adapting and has a vigorous and user friendly website and on line sales that are competing very well with Amazon.



Excellent point. Smart retailers are adapting to the reality of online commerce. What the children often don't grasp is that the advantage of big box concerns is greatly diminished in cyberspace. Ebay and Craigs List have created a renewed community for small retailers and craftsmen. 



> And Walmart has the added advantage of giving you the option of having the stuff delivered or picked up at the store.  To compete Amazon is adding more and products to compete with the retail stores and has the added advantage of including an Ebay kind of service.  I notice the last couple of years Amazon is also partnering with a lot of other retailers no doubt to compensate for their lack of warehouse space compared to Walmart and other big box retailers.



Exactly. Stores will fade to depots at some point. It's interesting, back in the 70's here in California, there was a store called "Best" that had a similar model. No product was on shelves. You would select what you want, get a ticket, and take it to the delivery counter, who would get the product out of stock.  An early version of distributed commerce.



> But just as the transportation industry morphed from wagon and buggy into trains, planes, and automobile and so much of farming has transformed from labor intensive to almost fully automated and the mom and pop stores morphed into big shopping centers, malls, and big box stores, the whole system no doubt will change again as we move through this century into the next.  And some will resist and resent that too.



And now Ebay and Craigslist have given mom and pops a rebirth and the ability to compete with those same big box stores. 

The market always sorts things out - if we just leave it alone.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 28, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> What in the HELL are you yammering about?
> Look here genius. THere will always be a section of the population that will not ever shop on line.



There are some old geezers who resist change, but in the scheme things they are irrelevant. They'll be dead in 20 years and the newer generation has no prejudice against computers.



> These are people who have the need to do business with a person, look at an item before they buy, and have a place where if the item does not meet their needs or is broken, to return it for credit or refund.
> Besides, when has there been a law passed prohibiting companies with physical plants from doing business on line?



Small showrooms will always be around. I find voice chat with customer care on sites to be quite pleasant. The market, not law, drives these changes.


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## editec (Nov 28, 2012)

I voted yes even though I seldom do.

Of course as long as there's a strike on, I won't be a scab consumer.

But I am NOT one of those folks who fault WALMART for the state of affairs involving FREE TRADE.

I blame CONGRESS and EVERY president since_ AND including FDR_ for that catastropic misjudgement.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 28, 2012)

skye said:


> Sure I shop at K-Mart (that's how its called here)
> 
> So many  well known cosmetics brands at such a cheap price .... it's all good! YUM!



Out in California, K-Mart is just scary. Most of the stores have long since closed, and those that are left are in the lowest socio-economic neighborhoods. There is very little that would get me to enter a K-Mart. Walmart is downright upscale in comparison.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 28, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> While I am loathe not to pay people who work for me a decent salary, who decides what a "living wage" is?  A living wage for an 18 year old living at home is not the same thing as a living wage for a 22 year old trying to work her way through college.
> 
> Managers set wages based on the going market in the area they are trying to hire.  They offer the wages that are necessary to get the desired level of work.  They try not to pay any more than they have to in order to get that desired level of work.
> 
> ...



I'm going to drop a bombshell that will shock everyone here. I'm a corporate executive - I can just hear the jaws drop....

Okay, so everyone figured that out a long time ago.. Anyway, I fight to increase the wages of my people, because I value them. I work with my team to find ways to cut costs, generally through Kaizen and lean initiatives, so that when review time comes around, I can make a solid case to secure bigger raises for them. 

This idea that bosses don't want their employees to make a decent wage is absurd, divorced from reality.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 28, 2012)

Matthew said:


> Pay above market value=devaluing the money supply=lower buying power.



Correct, nice to see SOMEONE with a grasp of economics - it's rare here.


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > While I am loathe not to pay people who work for me a decent salary, who decides what a "living wage" is?  A living wage for an 18 year old living at home is not the same thing as a living wage for a 22 year old trying to work her way through college.
> ...



Then you do not understand the core value of Kaizen, obviously.  So having also been trained in TPS, maybe I can fill you in.

Good Change (zen kai) is a great concept.  Involve people, in a socio-technical way, to shave seconds off production with an emphasis on improved-quality.  Make it better, and faster if possible, shaving costs. But better rules.  And the socio benefit is team cohesiveness, making people feel more connected to the company, and thus provide a benefit in working there that transcends monetary reward, exclusively.  Get the most from your people, with minimal pay, truth be told.  But that's supposed to be a secret known only to we execs, who cost-justify the training and meeting cost.

Yeah?


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## Immanuel (Nov 28, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > While I am loathe not to pay people who work for me a decent salary, who decides what a "living wage" is?  A living wage for an 18 year old living at home is not the same thing as a living wage for a 22 year old trying to work her way through college.
> ...



I completely agree. Managers know that good employees are hard to find and keeping them is a priority, many times because the manager's success (meaning earnings) depend heavily upon those working for him.

This idea that management does not care is another union fabrication.

Immie


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## Foxfyre (Nov 28, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > While I am loathe not to pay people who work for me a decent salary, who decides what a "living wage" is?  A living wage for an 18 year old living at home is not the same thing as a living wage for a 22 year old trying to work her way through college.
> ...



I can believe that because of your savvy of how the economy works.

Most employers don't pay low wages because of any contempt or disrespect or unconcern held for their employees.   The smart employer wants a loyal, competent, and happy work force.   In times of recession and high unemployment, achieving profits requires accommodation of a much smaller money pool to be spread around among all commercial enterprise.  Prices are usually lower and/or there are more discounts or other incentives encouraging people to buy.  And there is less money for raises and more benefits.

In a booming economy, there is a much larger money pool to tap into, there is full employment, and it becomes a seller's market for the laborer who can command a higher price for his/her experience and qualifiications.   And yes, that generally forces the costs of everything higher, but there is much more ability to pay the higher prices.

Artificially high wages do little to help the economy because they tend to reduce opportunity for employment, and you have more people out of work and draining energy from the economy.   Want Walmart to pay its people better and provide more benefits?  Encourage the President and Congress to promote tax and regulation policy that encourages the free market to expand and grow across the board and achieve full employment.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 28, 2012)

Immanuel said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



Same here. I don't give a rat's ass how much money I had. I cannot stand large houses. What the hell am I going to do with all that space?. Land airplanes in it?.
My ideal home is a 2500 square foot ranch with a full basement man cave. Mrs Spoon can hang out and watch "real housewives" in the main chamber all she likes.
As long as i have the man cave, the fridge, wet bar and workshop I'm good.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 28, 2012)

Koios said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...


Yes. I know I am correct. It's simple economics.
Higher cost of doing business = higher consumer prices.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 28, 2012)

Koios said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Amelia said:
> ...



Here, I will make this very simple.
I own a hardware store. My labor cost is 30%. Which is on the high end of the margin.
I pay my people minimum wage. None of them work more than 25 hours per week.
My store is open from 7:30 am to 5pm. Closed on Sunday.
Now, koios steps in and says "I mandate you pay your people twelve dollars per hour.The federal government gave me this power"..
Ok., I have two options. I can increase my prices and risk losing customers who will flee to other businesses with more buying power and naturally charge less for similar items.
Or I can raise the wage but to keep my prices the same, I will let go two of my part time workers. 
Either way, my business is going to continue. And I will do what I must to achieve that mission.
Now....We have a large manufacturer of pluming fittings. I supply fixture manufacturers.
My staff is mostly contract labor for which I pay $8 per hour. Only my management people are full time company employees.
Koios comes into my factory and says " the government has given me the authority to tell you that you must now raise your pay rate from $8 per hour to $12 per hour.".
Ok, so here are my options. I can increase the price of the things I make to my customers. In which case they are most likely to flee to other companies that may perhaps import their goods from overseas at a lighter price OR, I can reduce the level of staffing in order to keep my prices the same.
One way or another I am going to keep my business open and profitable. I have a family to feed and full time people to consider.
See how this works?
Now, you can deny all you like. You can seek out the pro labor blogs for assistance. It doesn't matter. One plus one equals two and there is nothing you can do about it.


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > thereisnospoon said:
> ...



It's a smidge more complex than that.  Sorry to disappoint.

Pricing models are driven by quite a lot more than it costs me X so I gotta sell it for Y.  If it were that easy, 6th-graders could set the end-user price target; some basic percentage math and you're in.

But other factors are at play: 

Your target market -- how big is it at X dollars per unit?

Competition -- what's similar product / benefit selling for?

Unique selling proposition -- anything ours does that others do not, supporting a higher price?

Brand -- who are we? Anyone we have to be priced above, or below, in keeping with our brand position?

Breakeven -- where's profitability, given sales projections?

Channel partners -- can we squeeze some margin from dealers?  Does our new widget have some leverage with them?

Production -- can any one make the new widget more cheaply than our folks?

Just to name a few of the considerations.


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 28, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> > What in the HELL are you yammering about?
> ...


Agree. For now though, the brick and mortar presence will still be necessary.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 28, 2012)

Koios said:


> Then school me on the impact of a $12 minimum wage on the unit labor cost in the US.  Can you, bitch?
> 
> If so, I'm all fucking ears.



You may be all ears, but you lack a brain with the cognitive capacity to process what you hear.

Clearly you are too young to have had an introductory economics course, if you stay in school, some time later in life you will. 

There is an abstract concept that children and leftists often have trouble grasping, this concept is "value." You understand "money," but the idea that money is simply a marker is lost on you. Money has no value, it is simply a medium of exchange. The dollar in your pocket is worth no more than the paper it's printed on. What money is, is a promise by a society that a prearranged value will be exchanged, that the promissory note you carry will be accepted by others for the value of $1 dollar at the time of the exchange. 

When you reach suitable age, you will be able to trade your time for what another values your time at. The more talent, intelligence, and skill that you have, the more others will value your time. Money means nothing, it is simply a marker for value. If you change the marker, the value remains the same. So if we say the marker for an hour of unskilled labor is $7.25 an hour, then the products and services depending on that labor will adjust in cost to the value of the labor provided. If you alter the marker to $70 an hour, the value provided didn't really change, only the marker did, thus the elements around that labor will be out of balance, they will be unequal. In a market system, even mixed mode, the market will seek equilibrium. You can pout 10 gallons of water in a 1 gallon jug, but the jug will cast off the excess. You can choose any marker you like for labor, but the market will cast off the excess through inflation. 

Outside of a managed economy, the market will always seek equilibrium to the value introduced by any good or service, including labor.


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



Perhaps your labor cost target cannot exceed 30% without being at risk of your profit evaporating.  But that's a target.  And typical retail is nearer 20%, but more effected by volume.  Say Bob, your checkout cashier, sells a pencil in the first 20 minutes of his day.  Then the next pay period, at around same 20 minutes, Bob sells a chain saw. (tip: as a percentage, Bob just got a lot cheaper)

So retailers set prices based on some minimum margin targets.  Then pray shit sells, occassionally taking a margin-hit in liue of getting warm bodies moving through the store. (have a sale).  Then if you're making money, terrific.  If not, fire Bob and work the counter yourself.  Bob is paid what you have to, at minimum.  But he has next to nothing to do with how you price-positon your stuff.  Pricing it to sell, rules.

And you know that. But you're loathe to pay Bob more and make shit up that seems a plausible reason to keep Bob's pay as low as possible.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 28, 2012)

I wonder if the public schools are teaching economics at all anymore?  There was a time that colleges and universities made at least one unit of economics a mandatory requisite.  So they still?

When government provides 'stimulus' for the economy, it has to take money out of the economy in order to do it.  No new dollars are introduced into the process.  And that is why government expenditures will never have ability to boost the economy as the private sector can.

When wages are artificially increased, some people will have more money to spend which theoretically should boost the economy, but it is taking money out of the other end of the economy providing less money for commerce and industry to expand and grow the economy.  No new dollars are introduced into the process and that is why artificial wages and/or price setting tends to do as much damage to the economy as it helps it.

When both prices and wages are allowed to rise and fall via free market forces, and government initiates a tax and regulation policy to encourage calculated risk taking, we will always have the best possible economy.   And those who have educated and prepared themselves to take advantage of that will prosper.

Walmart is no different than any other business.  It identified the niche in the economy it wants to fill and it does so competently.  Therefore it prospers.  If it was not providing a product and service attractive to millions of people, it would have to do things differently or close its doors.

Walmart is not the problem.


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> I wonder if the public schools are teaching economics at all anymore?  There was a time that colleges and universities made at least one unit of economics a mandatory requisite.  So they still?
> 
> When government provides 'stimulus' for the economy, it has to take money out of the economy in order to do it.  No new dollars are introduced into the process.  And that is why government expenditures will never have ability to boost the economy as the private sector can.
> 
> ...



Hahahahahaha.  Your public grade school economics "education" is showing.

Government does not take money out of the economy.  When it borrows, or lends (prints) it puts money in.  When it taxes, it moves it somewhere.

No shit.


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## Cecilie1200 (Nov 28, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > thereisnospoon said:
> ...



To a certain extent, brick-and-mortar will be necessary until shippers figure out a way to provide instant gratification.  Sometimes things simply can't be ordered online, because you can't wait for them.  Or because you don't want to.  Smart retailers are adjusting to that, and tailoring their instore service to cater to the desire for NOW.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 28, 2012)

Koios said:


> Then you do not understand the core value of Kaizen, obviously.  So having also been trained in TPS, maybe I can fill you in.



Oh great, I always wanted the 14 year old's perspective...


> Good Change (zen kai) is a great concept.  Involve people, in a socio-technical way, to shave seconds off production with an emphasis on improved-quality.



That's called "Takt time" son, and is one part of most Kaizen events.



> Make it better, and faster if possible, shaving costs. But better rules.  And the socio benefit is team cohesiveness, making people feel more connected to the company, and thus provide a benefit in working there that transcends monetary reward, exclusively.



Bwahahahahaha

Right sparky.

Team work IS important, work cells and friendly competition between teams. But one thing you seem to have missed in your search of Wiki, is that Toyota paid as well as UAW shops without the need for Mafia involvement. If TPS were a way to trick gullible workers into finding benefit outside of compensation, how could this be the case?

Well, the fact is that you're talking out of your ass, of course.



> Get the most from your people, with minimal pay, truth be told.  But that's supposed to be a secret known only to we execs, who cost-justify the training and meeting cost.
> 
> Yeah?



Is that what you think lean is?

When you grow up, you'll find out differently.

{Lean manufacturing is a manufacturing strategy that seeks to produce a high level of throughput with a minimum of inventory.}

What is Lean Manufacturing?


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Then you do not understand the core value of Kaizen, obviously.  So having also been trained in TPS, maybe I can fill you in.
> ...



In the "grown-up" right wing koolaid-drinking fantasy world, businesses do this:

1. Try to get cost down everywhere, except labor; workers get paid the most businesses can afford to pay them, because, well, they're morons (tip: they're not, only the right-wing dipshits on message boards are morons)

2. Labor is X% of sales.  When sales go up, businesses give everyone a raise or bonus or whatever so all of that percentage budget is spent.  Hahahahahahaha.  Fuck me, I am rolling, here.

Need I go on?  Any other myths you'd like to have bitch-slapped since ya'll haven't the slightest knowledge of what's politics and actual economics?

Nothing I'd love more than a shot at it. Go hog wild, please.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 28, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> I can believe that because of your savvy of how the economy works.
> 
> Most employers don't pay low wages because of any contempt or disrespect or unconcern held for their employees.   The smart employer wants a loyal, competent, and happy work force.   In times of recession and high unemployment, achieving profits requires accommodation of a much smaller money pool to be spread around among all commercial enterprise.  Prices are usually lower and/or there are more discounts or other incentives encouraging people to buy.  And there is less money for raises and more benefits.
> 
> ...



I work in technical manufacturing, in an AS9100 TQM environment. There are definite levels. We absolutely do bring in people at minimum wage. However, NO ONE is at minimum wage 4 months after coming in. Two possibilities exist, they are long since fired, or they are bumped up to the next tier. This is the norm in everything except mom and pop business. (which are the ONLY places that keep people at minimum for long periods) People who are good move up quickly. if someone has talent, we send them to training and they make even more. We pay machinists a higher wage than the union shops do, because we want the best - of course we expect a LOT more from them than union shops do, they must have buy-in to the products and the process. 

Our forum child, Koios wants to yap about lean as if he really knows what he's talking about. He doesn't. The idea that we would take a dozen people off of a production line making parts, put them in training, design spaghetti charts, track takt time, flow chart a process, involve the operators in eliminating wasted motion, et al, simply to avoid paying them a competitive wage is beyond laughable. A Kaizen event prints money, through efficiency gains and quality improvements. Those involved are paid MORE, not less. And they understand what is going on, that the path to them making more is to have a more profitable business. It's the unions that leave workers in a void, where their efforts have no impact on compensation. We in the free sector base compensation on the contribution of the employee.


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > I can believe that because of your savvy of how the economy works.
> ...



He's a tip that's worked for me when recruited: don't have them open the kimono and show you financials.  Ask to have the HR director present at the meeting, and see what their entry-level starting wage is.  It speaks volumes about the company, since, any who pay minimum wage, pay the minimum possible all the way up the org chart.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 28, 2012)

Koios said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder if the public schools are teaching economics at all anymore?  There was a time that colleges and universities made at least one unit of economics a mandatory requisite.  So they still?
> ...



Do you honestly believe that when government prints a dollar that is not tied to real income generated by the economy that it has added a dollar to the economy?  Do you honestly think that taxing people does not remove money from the economy?   Do you think a tax dollar will be distributed 100% somewhere else in the economy?

And you think I am the one with a public gradeschool education?


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
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No.  Nor did I contend anything of the sort.

Read back and you'll see that I merely challenged the retarded fucking notion that government takes money out of the economy.


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Yes; where does it go if not right back into the economy?


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## Foxfyre (Nov 28, 2012)

Koios said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
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And that in a nutshell illustrates in huge flashing neon lights that you don't have a clue about how the economy works or what factors are included in it.


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



No.  We borrow, too.  So for every Dollar in tax, more than a Dollar is spent.


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Yes; in fact, I thought I was being generous.


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Koios said:
> 
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> > Foxfyre said:
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Coming from you, I'm flattered.  No shit.


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

*Thought experiment for right-wing nincumpoops:*

Imagine a Dollar bill.  Now follow it along its path of your imagination ...

It's in the net worth of someone who is very well off and spends but a tiny percentage of their income on things they want or need.  Just sitting there, until removed via tax by the government.  Where's it go from there, if paid to a federal employee, or road contractor, or welfare recipient?  Any increased monetary velocity?  And where does it end up in the end?  Workers, or owners of companies and stocks, from whom it was taken originally?  Visualize it, and all the hands that touch it.

Then you'll begin to grasp the magic of progressive taxation (tax money that is less likely to be spent, and spend it into the economy) and the wonderful "redistributive effect" that modern economies depend upon.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 28, 2012)

Koios said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
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> > Koios said:
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Okay genius, when Walmart spends a dollar for labor, overhead, or inventory it provides money for the employee to spend, provides jobs for those providing utilities or whatever or for contractors to provide the physical plant, or provides incomes for those who sell them the inventory items.   It expects to regain that dollar plus a profit by selling its prodvcts to others.  It is rising its own resources when it does that and takes nothing out of the economy.

Please advise us, oh brilliant one, how the government gets the dollar it uses for whatever purpose without first taking that dollar away from somebody.


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
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My pleasure.

Indeed government takes money, however, due to the progressive nature of our tax policy, most comes from stagnant money, and less from folks who are likely to spend all or most of it, which the government does, near instantaneously, and then some, vis a vis borrowing.

It's one way to redistribute a nation's wealth, pumping it back through the economy, and letting it gain momentum on its way back to the top, by which time it's gathered other investment, making it larger.

Another way is higher wages, so that instead of languishing in retained earnings, as the record profits are in an increasing degree, it winds up with workers, who spend it in heartbeat, quite often.

Dollars are pauns we want moving around the board (our economy), which will not happen organically.  The natural flow of capital is to the top, where it stagnates, to the detriment of the economic system, from which we all, poor, middle and rich, benefit ... nay, depend upon.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 28, 2012)

Koios said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
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Spoken like a true Marxist redistributionist.

The rest of us know that the only real prosperity/economic growth comes from value received from value expended.  

Definition of economic growth (Economics 100, let alone 101):



> *An increase in the capacity of an economy to produce goods and services*, compared from one period of time to another. Economic growth can be measured in nominal terms, which include inflation, or in real terms, which are adjusted for inflation. For comparing one country's economic growth to another, GDP or GNP per capita should be used as these take into account population differences between countries.
> 
> Read more: Economic Growth Definition | Investopedia


'

There is no way the government can tax money from the productive, absorb a substantial amount of what taxes it takes just to maintain the same government, and give whatever is left over to those who did not earn it, without diminishing the capacity of the economy to produce goods and services.

And that is why Walmart is of immensely more value to the health of the U.S. economy than any government program can ever be.


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Koios said:
> 
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Rhetoric. Dogma.  Ergo, meaningless.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 28, 2012)

Koios said:


> Foxfyre said:
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Well thank you for finally admitting that is what you have been attempting to feed us.


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

> Read more: Economic Growth Definition | Investopedia



Not economics.  Politics.  Here's why:

Economics is the study of a system we call "our economy."

Politics endeavors to mold opinion, to the advatage of one person or another.  One way, obviously, is by speaking from the metaphorical "soapbox."  Tell folks what they want to hear, or you want them to think, to your benefit. Example: Boehner; ignore anything that's counter to your belief, and sight all manner of pseudo-economics that supports your belief, nay, core brand theme in getting your side elected.

Another way, quite popular: fund a study, with an end in mind. Add some "cred."  It's pseudo-economics, and thus nothing more than political, obviously.  If not, why fund it?  Businesses are insatiably curious, and happy to spend the money in hopes of satisfying that curiosity?  Or is there a pay-back?  Can opinions be molded to the benefit of the businesses owners? (tip: the latter)


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## Foxfyre (Nov 28, 2012)

Okay, dragging the train back on the tracks--Koios is now changing the subject so we can conclude the concept of economic growth remains sound for the rest of us--I will have to say that my on line experience ordering from Walmart is even more satisfying than ordering from Amazon.  But I am now wondering if Amazon hasn't quietly partnered with Walmart?

At any rate, when you consider the massive complexity of the entire Walmart system, it would take a hell of a CEO to be on top of it all.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 28, 2012)

Koios said:


> In the "grown-up" right wing koolaid-drinking fantasy world, businesses do this:
> 
> 1. Try to get cost down everywhere, except labor; workers get paid the most businesses can afford to pay them, because, well, they're morons (tip: they're not, only the right-wing dipshits on message boards are morons)
> 
> ...



You know, what you stated (cut and pasted?) about pricing is fairly correct, there are a lot of variables involved. 

The same is true with wages. Labor is an expense, the accounting equation dictates that expenses should be minimized when possible. But lower wages doesn't lower costs if quality or productivity suffers. Cat shit is cheaper than beef tenderloin, yet fine dining doesn't serve cat shit - why not? Because we are willing to pay for better quality.

When you get to 8th grade, you'll start to learn about these things.


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Okay, dragging the train back on the tracks--Koios is now changing the subject so we can conclude the concept of economic growth remains sound for the rest of us--I will have to say that my on line experience ordering from Walmart is even more satisfying than ordering from Amazon.  But I am now wondering if Amazon hasn't quietly partnered with Walmart?
> 
> At any rate, when you consider the massive complexity of the entire Walmart system, it would take a hell of a CEO to be on top of it all.



Okay fine.

Indeed, Amazon's online ordering is so highly-evolved that it handles, and in many instances fulfills, online ordering for other vendors.  Walmart might well be among them, which is simply consistent with the Amazon model, and nothing secret nor sinister, albeit, Walmart might wish the relationship to remain non-disclosed so as not to diminish it's own online ordering.

Moreover, Walmart is highly successful, and thus does not need a great CEO, as Chrysler did and got, and Hostess sure as shit could use.  CEOs bring the vision that creates the system, which ideally, and indeed in Walmart's case already does, functions well, and can be effectively monitored by the myriad managers and corporate executives, who then reported back to the CEO / Board to monitor whether goals are being met.


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > In the "grown-up" right wing koolaid-drinking fantasy world, businesses do this:
> ...



Go find out.  Google any of the text strings and see if it's prior art.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 28, 2012)

Koios said:


> Then you'll begin to grasp the magic of progressive taxation (tax money that is less likely to be spent, and spend it into the economy) and the wonderful "redistributive effect" that modern economies depend upon.



this is perfect example of a low IQ 100% illiterate liberal.

A rich man will save his money for sure but not in a mattress, in a bank or investment where he expects to grow his principle and the economy after very very careful consideration of different alternatives available for his hard earned money.

When his hard earned money is taxed away by liberal bureaucrats to merely churn the economy to buy votes all possibility of growth is lost.

Accordingly to your perfectly idiotic reasoning Europe should be booming and all economists would know that the higher the tax the higher the growth. Its almost too stupid for words but so perfectly liberal and stupid. 

Welcome to Econ 101 class one day one!!


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Then you'll begin to grasp the magic of progressive taxation (tax money that is less likely to be spent, and spend it into the economy) and the wonderful "redistributive effect" that modern economies depend upon.
> ...



Hahahahahahaha.  Ahhh, Ed.

You see, pal, any who say it's this-and-that 101, probably hasn't studied any of it. It's a pretty retarded turn of phrase, to those of us who've gone beyond mere intro courses.

FWIW,

-K


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 28, 2012)

Koios said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



the illiterate liberal is reduced to personal attack because he lacks the IQ and education for substance.
Hitler, Stalin, and Mao thought they were smart guy liberals too. Illiterate bigoted arrogance is nothing knew; in fact it is the essence of liberalism.

Do you know why our liberals spied for Hitler and gave him the A-bomb??


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...



Apparently so, Eddie.

But since the IQ bit seems a bit of rhetoric you're fond of using so frequently, let me clue you in on that as well ...

*Intelligence* is more of a thing we're born with.  Kinda earned for doing nothing but being born. IQ testing endeavors to measure it, for what it's worth.  Actually it can be a pain, since intelligence merely sees order where others see chaos.  I'd liken it to being an English speaker in a world where others only speak Japanese.  It can be frustrating, since you cannot share your inner-most thoughts.

And what you're alluding to, *Informed/Educated*, is different.  That's actually earned through great/some/not much effort.  Intelligence can help greatly, since new information can be more easily processed, and also considered within the context of other information, leading to new revelations.  But in the end, information is something we can all gather, irrespective of IQs, to a point.  Some have IQs so low that information simply does not take.  Ergo, I'd encourage you to not ponder that too much nor spend time looking in mirrors.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 28, 2012)

Koios said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



a typical illiterate liberal changes the subject because he lacks the IQ to discuss the subject

When hard earned money is taxed away by liberal bureaucrats to merely churn the economy to buy votes all possibility of growth is lost.

Accordingly to your perfectly idiotic reasoning Europe should be booming and all economists would know that the higher the tax the higher the growth. Its almost too stupid for words but so perfectly liberal and stupid. 

Welcome to Econ 101 class one day one!!


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...



Attaboy, Ed.  I'm flattered you heeded my encouragement.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 28, 2012)

Koios said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



a typical illiterate liberal tries to change the subject because he lacks the IQ to discuss the subject and hopes no one will notice.


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...



Indeed.  So you've being saying, repeatedly, ad nasseum.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 28, 2012)

Koios said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



a typical illiterate liberal tries to change the subject because he lacks the IQ to discuss the subject and hopes no one will notice.


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## Koios (Nov 28, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...



See other thread.

Bye-bye for now, Ed.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 28, 2012)

Koios said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
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> 
> > Koios said:
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yes come back when you can contribute. SHow some character, not just pure ego. Thanks


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## thereisnospoon (Nov 28, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> > Sure I shop at K-Mart (that's how its called here)
> ...



To date, K-Mart demise is tied directly to the expansion of Walmart.
What did Walmart do to cause the demise of K-Mart?
1. Walmart placed it's stores in higher income areas away from cities.  most K-Mart stores were located in in close suburbs or in urban areas where income levels of local residents were lower.
2. Walmart cut distributors out of the buying process then went directly to the manufacturers to purchase products. K-Mart was still using distributors to acquire stock for it's stores which adds to the cost of goods.
3. Walmart stores for the most part are cleaner, have wider aisles and are in NEW buildings.  K-mart stores were located in older existing buildings that required up fits and repairs.
4 Walmart dropped private brands and transitioned to national brand merchandise.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 29, 2012)

Koios said:


> My pleasure.
> 
> Indeed government takes money, however, due to the progressive nature of our tax policy, most comes from stagnant money,



Ah yes, those swimming pools filled with gold coins that Scrooge McDuck wallows in...

Wealthy people like Mitt Romney got rich by keeping capital stagnate. You leftists sure are smart...



> and less from folks who are likely to spend all or most of it, which the government does, near instantaneously, and then some, vis a vis borrowing.



So taking monies that would "stagnate" in capital projects and venture capital to distribute to non-productive public sector "workers" and to entitlements is a brilliant means to economic growth then? 



> It's one way to redistribute a nation's wealth, pumping it back through the economy, and letting it gain momentum on its way back to the top, by which time it's gathered other investment, making it larger.



Yes, nothing grows wealth quite like expending capital on disposable consumer goods for the entitlement sector.



> Another way is higher wages, so that instead of languishing in retained earnings, as the record profits are in an increasing degree, it winds up with workers, who spend it in heartbeat, quite often.



ROFL

Such a slow child. I'm not convinced 8th grade will help you, son.

For the lurkers who don't simply regurgitate ThinkProgress idiocy;

{In its simplest form, a law setting a minimum
hourly wage is a statement to workers that unless they can find jobs at or above the
specified minimum they cannot work. It is simultaneously a statement to employers that
workers who would be employed at lower wages must be paid the minimum (plus legally
required fringe benefits) or they cannot be employed. Employment, per se, is not required;
instead, the law establishes the terms of whatever employment occurs.}

http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/regv2n6/v2n6-6.pdf



> Dollars are pauns we want moving around the board (our economy), which will not happen organically.



That is about the most ignorant statement I've yet read. Dollars are neither pawns nor are they static. What you cannot grasp, partially because you are a child lack education, and are lacking in critical thinking skills, but dollars are not value. I tried to explain this to you yesterday, but you lack the capacity to grasp even simply economic concepts. There is not a big bucket of dollars to be split up among all the good little boys and girls. Before value, wealth, can be looted, it must be created. 

Yes, I know in the cartoon world painted by the leftist hate sites that do your thinking for you, we just need to borrow more from China and all is good. We can add to that static pile of dollars and then split it up more fairly. 

Of course you are again showing foolish ignorance. While obscene, China holds but $1.2 trillion of the $16 trillion federal debt. The vast majority of the federal debt is held in t-bills, notes and bonds. Most of the bonds are held by American corporations. In other words, we borrow from the very same people you want to loot.



> The natural flow of capital is to the top, where it stagnates, to the detriment of the economic system, from which we all, poor, middle and rich, benefit ... nay, depend upon.



LOL

No offense, but you're a fucking moron - seriously.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 29, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> To date, K-Mart demise is tied directly to the expansion of Walmart.
> What did Walmart do to cause the demise of K-Mart?
> 1. Walmart placed it's stores in higher income areas away from cities.  most K-Mart stores were located in in close suburbs or in urban areas where income levels of local residents were lower.
> 2. Walmart cut distributors out of the buying process then went directly to the manufacturers to purchase products. K-Mart was still using distributors to acquire stock for it's stores which adds to the cost of goods.
> ...



Yep.

Sam Walton virtually invented supply chain management, and no one does it better than Walmart.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 29, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> > To date, K-Mart demise is tied directly to the expansion of Walmart.
> ...



Well then, we should pass a liberal communist law so that the huge cost savings can't be passed on to the American people. We want the American people to be poorer- right??

In fact, we should be consistent, all businesses that find a better or newer  way should be prevented from passing the savings on to the American people. In fact, we should just pass a law against all economic progress and for universal soviet poverty.


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## Koios (Nov 29, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > My pleasure.
> ...



Moron that I may be, I can clearly see that Romney having achieved great wealth from this economy, socked it away in a Cayman Trust.  Tell me how that benefits our economy, and moves through it, here.  Can you?  Of course not.

If I'm a moron, does that make you a mere garden variety idiot, or complete fucking idiot? I'm guessing that latter.


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## Foxfyre (Nov 29, 2012)

If Romney's investments were socked away in a Cayman Trust, he wouldn't be paying the large amount of taxes he is paying, so nice try Koios.   I by comparison have extremely modest investments, but because of the nature of them, some are overseas and probably at least some small part is parked in the Caymans.

But evenso, I fail to understand what Romney's investments have to do with Walmart's success or lack thereof.  Or the nature of the dollar.  Or what produces economic strength and how Walmart does or does not contribute to that.

Somebody earlier correctly pointed out how the unions and government meddling have decimated America's manufacturing industries.  And now they are targeting retail and Walmart, being the biggest, is the No. 1 target.

That might explain why Zogby and one other major pollster, both of whom solicit my opinion from time to time, whatever the nature of the poll re politics or religion or social issues etc. will invariably include one question:  "How often do you shop at Walmart?"   I am guessing that question is likely being paid for by somebody who is gunning for Walmart.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 29, 2012)

Koios said:


> Moron that I may be, I can clearly see that Romney having achieved great wealth from this economy, socked it away in a Cayman Trust.  Tell me how that benefits our economy, and moves through it, here.  Can you?  Of course not.



dear a trust is  not a mattress!! A trust very very carefully invests money to make a huge profit if possible. Huge profits come from new companies!!!

Solyndra/soviet/ A123 Systems/bridge to no where, liberal bureaucrats don't grow the economy the merely waste our money.

When is the last time a poor person created a job or grew the economy??

Do you want more welfare entitlements for the poor so they can invent new products and grow the economy???

See why we are 100% positive a liberal will be slow??


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## Koios (Nov 29, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> If Romney's investments were socked away in a Cayman Trust, he wouldn't be paying the large amount of taxes he is paying, so nice try Koios.   I by comparison have extremely modest investments, but because of the nature of them, some are overseas and probably at least some small part is parked in the Caymans.
> 
> But evenso, *I fail to understand what Romney's investments have to do with Walmart's success or lack thereof.*  Or the nature of the dollar.  Or what produces economic strength and how Walmart does or does not contribute to that.
> 
> ...



They're almost certainly unrelated.  But you brought up Romney, and I corrected you on your misconception.  I had no idea you wished for some sort of Romney-Walmart connectivity, of which there is little if any, I'm guessing.

Does that help?

Edit: sorry; it was not you who brought Romney up; it was someone else who did, and you jumped in.  My apology for not seeing that initially.


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## Koios (Nov 29, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Moron that I may be, I can clearly see that Romney having achieved great wealth from this economy, socked it away in a Cayman Trust.  Tell me how that benefits our economy, and moves through it, here.  Can you?  Of course not.
> ...



I'm not suffering fools as well today as yesterday, Ed.  Let's save it for another thread, shall we?


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 29, 2012)

Koios said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



translation: I'm a liberal, I'll get slaughtered if I engage, but like a true believer Nazi fascist I'll cling to my feelings even when I have no thoughts.


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## Uncensored2008 (Nov 29, 2012)

Koios said:


> I'm not suffering fools as well today as yesterday, Ed.  Let's save it for another thread, shall we?



You're not suffering fools at all, you're suffering from a severe ass beating.

I'm just sayin...


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 29, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not suffering fools as well today as yesterday, Ed.  Let's save it for another thread, shall we?
> ...



The guy was truely a liberal. He had no education whatsoever but whatever random thought popped into is head he was willing to go to war over.

This is similar to the great 20th century liberals,Hitler Stalin and Mao. They had idiotic liberal ideas based on pure gibberish but each was willing to kill millions because they were so sure of their gut feelings.

Someone once said the Nike Slogan, "Just Do it" was the most accurate description of liberalism. I think he was right; meanwhile conservatism is based on a carefully reasoned 2000 year old philosophy that is slowly refined as new wisdom emerges.


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## Jarlaxle (Dec 1, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



Some things just have to be seen to be bought.  Offhand, I have NEVER been able to buy shoes that fit without trying them on!


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 1, 2012)

Jarlaxle said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > thereisnospoon said:
> ...



Quite true.  I can buy clothes all day long online, and only rarely have to return something that doesn't fit correctly.  My husband and oldest son, on the other hand, HAVE to try their pants on before buying, because every single pair seems to fit them differently, and I'd never get anything done but returning them if I bought online.

And I would NEVER buy a pair of shoes without trying them on first, unless I was planning to never stand up in them.

I also just love being able to run out and get something on impulse, just because I decided I wanted it right now.  Online shopping will never be able to give me that, unless and until retailers figure out a way to teleport purchases directly into the home.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 1, 2012)

Agreed.  I have the world's hardest to fit feet and shoes don't come in my size.  I have to try on everything and get as close as I can.  I always figured if I ever won the lottery, I could then have shoes custom made for my feet.  

But I agree, there is nothing like shopping at the store when you need something fast or when you don't know for sure what you want and just want to review all the options.  And sometimes you really want to look close to examine quality, color, texture, etc. and you can't always judge all that on line.

In fact I finished up my Christmas shopping yesterday at Walmart.  I needed some filler gifts and had no idea what I was going to buy until I saw the items walking through the aisles and just looking at everything.   No way I could have found those last few items on line at the price I paid for them.


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## saveliberty (Dec 1, 2012)

You are suppose to hunt things at a store.


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## Uncensored2008 (Dec 3, 2012)

saveliberty said:


> You are suppose to hunt things at a store.



That must be why they have those signs in the meat department.. "You stab it, you've bought it."


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## Foxfyre (Dec 3, 2012)

Mostly I like going to the store to see what products are there and often try out a new shampoo or body wash or some other product that I wouldn't have known existed if I hadn't walked through that department at the store.  That's the primary drawback of shopping on line.  You can't see ALL the products offered and if you don't know that something exists, you won't search for it on line.

I did want to mention the Salvation Army bellringer who was working outside Walmart on Friday.  I was feeling rather down at the time and was pretty unenthusiastic about everything in general.  But he was singing Christmas carols, badly but happily, and greeting everybody and I found myself smiling, even laughing.  And it was difficult pushing a few bills through the slot of the 'kettle' because it was so full.  Warmed my heart.


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## Too Tall (Dec 3, 2012)

Decus said:


> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> > Walmart pays the same as Target, yet Walmart is always the big bad wolf.  Why is that?  And since Target's prices are almost always higher, why aren't they paying better wages overall?
> ...



I use Costco for bulk purchases and the $50 a year membership to Costco pays the annual fee for my American Express card.  I also buy my gas there since it is usually at least 10 cents a gallon cheaper and I get a 3% discount as well.

When I need one can of soup, or one loaf of bread, I go to Kroger's,  Publix or Walmart.


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## Too Tall (Dec 3, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Mostly I like going to the store to see what products are there and often try out a new shampoo or body wash or some other product that I wouldn't have known existed if I hadn't walked through that department at the store.  That's the primary drawback of shopping on line.  You can't see ALL the products offered and if you don't know that something exists, you won't search for it on line.
> 
> I did want to mention the Salvation Army bellringer who was working outside Walmart on Friday.  I was feeling rather down at the time and was pretty unenthusiastic about everything in general.  But he was singing Christmas carols, badly but happily, and greeting everybody and I found myself smiling, even laughing.  And it was difficult pushing a few bills through the slot of the 'kettle' because it was so full.  Warmed my heart.



I can't pass up a Salvation Army bell ringer without dropping a few bucks in the pot.  And it seems Walmart is the only store that allows these Christians to solicit at their store.  One more reason to shop there.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Dec 3, 2012)

Too Tall said:


> I can't pass up a Salvation Army bell ringer without dropping a few bucks in the pot.  And it seems Walmart is the only store that allows these Christians to solicit at their store.  One more reason to shop there.



Liberals would have us shop at higher priced stores to make us poorer!! They are truly the enemies of the people.


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## Politico (Dec 3, 2012)

This is the longest pointless argument I ever saw lol.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 3, 2012)

Politico said:


> This is the longest pointless argument I ever saw lol.



And yet here you are joining right in.  Amazing isn't it?

Actually it isn't pointless because we are at the cusp of what we are going to be as a society.   Do we value free enterprise and success and achievement?  Or do we want to do away with that in the name of 'fairness' and 'equality' and sameness?

Is Walmart a feature of how our nation is evolving and therefore we should adapt?  Or do we roll the clock back to the mom and pop store era as the only way things can be if society is good?

It has been fascinating watching some damn us who remember earlier eras fondly and all they can see is whatever negatives existed in those earlier times.  And they can't see any negatives in what they prefer in these modern times.   And now the same people want to reverse modern times in commerce and industry as evil and can see only good in the way things used to be.

Maybe it has always been that way?


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## Mr Natural (Dec 3, 2012)

I go to Wal Mart when I'm in the mood to watch fat women in stretch pants beat the crap out of their kids.


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## Politico (Dec 3, 2012)

Mr Clean said:


> I go to Wal Mart when I'm in the mood to watch fat women in stretch pants beat the crap out of their kids.



Cameltoe!



Foxfyre said:


> And yet here you are joining right in.  Amazing isn't it?



Gotta get your entertainment somewhere.


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## thereisnospoon (Dec 3, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> If Romney's investments were socked away in a Cayman Trust, he wouldn't be paying the large amount of taxes he is paying, so nice try Koios.   I by comparison have extremely modest investments, but because of the nature of them, some are overseas and probably at least some small part is parked in the Caymans.
> 
> But evenso, I fail to understand what Romney's investments have to do with Walmart's success or lack thereof.  Or the nature of the dollar.  Or what produces economic strength and how Walmart does or does not contribute to that.
> 
> ...



The liberal class envy argument is a convoluted trash bag of conflicting points and emotional rants.


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## thereisnospoon (Dec 3, 2012)

Mr Clean said:


> I go to Wal Mart when I'm in the mood to watch fat women in stretch pants beat the crap out of their kids.



Or see 40 year old women wearing stiletto heeled FMB's tripping over them while checking every reflective surface to confirm their make-up is in order.
Walmart stores can be quite a target rich environment for spotting weird people.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Dec 3, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> And now they[union thugs] are targeting retail and Walmart, being the biggest, is the No. 1 target.



yes the union thugs drove 30 million manufacturing jobs offshore, and now they are going after industries that cant escape off shore so easily. They will  turn them into zombie industries, like they did the public schools, to serve themselves only.

Only liberals are preventing us from making unions illegal again.


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## Luddly Neddite (Dec 3, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Politico said:
> 
> 
> > This is the longest pointless argument I ever saw lol.
> ...



Hmmm ...

rw's want us to be a bedroom community of China. 

Libs, not so much.

Sadly, rw's are winning. 

Don't think so?

How many rw's shopped at small businesses on "small business Saturday"? as opposed to going to WallyWorld just to make the point that, by gawd, ain't nobody gonna tell them they kint buy their Made In China Plastic Shit And IN-rich Dem Waltons Whut Live On Walton Muntin. 

See what I mean?


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## Uncensored2008 (Dec 3, 2012)

^^^^ Defines "Stupid Post."


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## Mr Natural (Dec 3, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > And now they[union thugs] are targeting retail and Walmart, being the biggest, is the No. 1 target.
> ...



Yeah, we'd all be a lot better off if only American workers would learn to work for cooley wages like their Chinese counterparts.

"Prosperity Through Lower Wages!"


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## Luddly Neddite (Dec 3, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > And now they[union thugs] are targeting retail and Walmart, being the biggest, is the No. 1 target.
> ...



Seeerius comment follows -

We went to a WallyWorld. Looked for a toy. Didn't find it but did talk to a little girl, "asss-oshit", preggers out to there who told us about a bunting, all pink and fluffy, for sale in the baby department. 

Then, in a hushed voice, she said, "but its $twenty dollars".

Jeeeezus fucking krist. 

We asked if she knew her baby's sex.

She said "gurl".

I slipped a twenty in her pocket and told her go buy the bunting.

She said, "they're watching" and tried to give it back. 

I managed to get the money into her pocket but the point is, the "asss-oshits" have to be careful. Saw the same thing on a documentary - that they're watched, every minute. And, they don't dare talk to each other because WallyWorld plants spies.

What a foul and vile world we've made where we once valued freedom.


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## Luddly Neddite (Dec 3, 2012)

Mr Clean said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



The pubs are working on it and the dumbass rw's are helping in every way they can.

The good news is that Obama won. 

That means that more than half of the voters are fighting against  outsourcing and bowing down to the rich.

It also means there's hope.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Dec 3, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> What a foul and vile world we've made where we once valued freedom.



Why not speak english?????


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## Luddly Neddite (Dec 3, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> luddly.neddite said:
> 
> 
> > What a foul and vile world we've made where we once valued freedom.
> ...



Use an upper case E, dimwit.


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## percysunshine (Dec 3, 2012)

Not many people know this, but luddly works at Walmart. He was promoted from aisle jockey to greeter because of his calm disposition and alluring hair.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Dec 3, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > luddly.neddite said:
> ...



why be so afraid to make your case in plain English? What does your fear tell you??


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## percysunshine (Dec 3, 2012)

Silence?

I must have guessed right. luddly does work at Walmart.

.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Dec 3, 2012)

percysunshine said:


> Silence?
> 
> I must have guessed right. luddly does work at Walmart.
> 
> .



she can be cute and smug , but always afraid to  say anything directly.


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## percysunshine (Dec 3, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> > Silence?
> ...



luddly is a sheila? Never knew. Us aussies are clueless some times.

cheers.


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## skye (Dec 3, 2012)

They sell Ipads ...and tablets ....they sell everything at K-Mart (that's how is called here) much cheaper than all the other places.... people buy things where its cheaper.... it falls to reason!


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## Jarlaxle (Dec 3, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > I go to Wal Mart when I'm in the mood to watch fat women in stretch pants beat the crap out of their kids.
> ...



Or seeing a tiny (barely 5'), 30-ish woman with short platinum-blond hair, a swimsuit-model figure, and a fondness for short skirts, seamed stockings, and heels...wait, that's just the assistant manager of the one I shop at.


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## Jarlaxle (Dec 3, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Politico said:
> ...



I had to work on "small business Saturday"...though on my way home, I did get dinner at a small business.


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## Jarlaxle (Dec 3, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Are you on LSD?


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## saveliberty (Dec 3, 2012)

I think you'd have gotten a better liberal response if the title had been, Do you shoplift at Walmart?


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Dec 3, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> rw's want us to be a bedroom community of China.



and you are socialist commie liberal who wants to dictate where we shop and what we pay throughout the entire economy. The principle is the Nazi one: a few liberals know best and they should  dictate to the rest one thing after another because they know best.


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## thereisnospoon (Dec 3, 2012)

skye said:


> They sell Ipads ...and tablets ....they sell everything at K-Mart (that's how is called here) much cheaper than all the other places.... people buy things where its cheaper.... it falls to reason!



That is truly evil...Those bastard consumers.


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## Luddly Neddite (Dec 3, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> luddly.neddite said:
> 
> 
> > rw's want us to be a bedroom community of China.
> ...



Why oh why do the ninny rw's refuse to look up the definitions of the really silly nonsense they fling around? Okay, I understand that most are almost graduates of the 7th grade but, hell's bells, they CAN read, can't they?

Eddy, honey, if you have access to this new thing called the INTERWEBS, you can actually type in GOOGLEfuckingDOTcom and EDUCATE yourself. 

Best of all, you don't even have to leave your mommy's basement.


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## Luddly Neddite (Dec 3, 2012)

Jarlaxle said:


> luddly.neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Good for you but, as we see here, most rw's want to support big business and foreign business over the US. Shopping at WallyWorld is a way of doing that.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Dec 4, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> most rw's want to support big business and foreign business over the US. Shopping at WallyWorld is a way of doing that.



actually big business does not want to do any foreign business at all. A child could understand this. Its a ton of extra effort, but their customers force them to do it because  their customers  want lower prices. If big business (slaves to customers in a capitalist economy)  does not comply the customers drive them into bankrupty and do business with competitors.


You like to blame big business for serving customers because  you are a brain washed Marxist without the IQ to have any idea what happend to you or how you're being used.


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## freedombecki (Dec 4, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow.  Wal mart is the number one killer of small business in America no matter what anyone says.  There is no way local small businsess can compete with Wal Marts low prices.  We got Wal Mart and within a year main street was 50% vacant. Chineese products killing American small business in the womb.  Yet they want us to think it's Obama care.  They say that small business needs all the breaks they can get, and the way that the US government backs big business over small business I can agree.  Large business, with their bought and paid for politicians, kill off  their competition through over regulation every day.  Talk about saving American small business than go shop at Wal Mart, it just doesn't sound right.  Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, our choices our being taken away.  No monopolies but how many cable tv options do you have?  ever tried to change electric companies?
> ...


Yes and no, Katzndogs. I don't know if WalMart buys seconds on tools and stuff, but I do know if you purchase fabrics, WalMart seems to have the same fabrics as you get at more expensive stores, but if you hold them up to the light, they're almost transparent, whereas the goods small merchants purchase (from the same company) is opaque. Also, if you weigh 4 yards of what WalMart is selling against 4 yards of the "same" fabric that is more opaque, the WalMart tissue fabric weighs a lot less, is less sturdy, has a lower thread count, etc.

That's because WalMart home office calls the fabric manufacturer with a demands list that includes a reminder that their million yard purchase is more than a mom-and-pop 20-bolt purchase, and they want the following concessions: (1) 50% off what the mom and pop pays (2) Half price on shipping, too (3) Direct phone order line (4) Carte-blanche all-expenses paid invitations to manufacturer shows for Wal-Mart buyers with pre-arranged sight-seeing trips around factory's country including factory review for company participants.

WalMart uses its large purchase power to eliminate mom and pop competitors, Katzndogs. People think they're buying the same quality, but the factory puts out a cheaper product that deceives people. But they're dummies if they don't say "yes" to lucrative offers like that, and in order to make money and meet demands, they have to cheapen the product, which looks like but isn't the same quality as mom and pop fabric companies who'd send it back if it weren't the expected high quality they have always received.

So, it's a box of chocolates, Katz. You may not know what you're getting when you're paying half as much for what appears to be the same but lacks that wonderful quality of traditional cloth manufacture.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 4, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > luddly.neddite said:
> ...



You know what I support when I'm shopping, the ONLY thing I'm supporting by shopping?  Me getting the things I need at a price I want to pay.  Only dumbfucks think shopping is a fucking political statement, or that anyone but them gives a rat's ass about their "statement" anyway.


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## Connery (Dec 4, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> luddly.neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Jarlaxle said:
> ...



I agree, but, when I use the men's room there are always handicapped stalls or family bathrooms  is that a political statement?

I want a left handed screw driver. I can never find one is that a political statement.


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## thereisnospoon (Dec 4, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> luddly.neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Jarlaxle said:
> ...



Sharp post! I am repping you!


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## thereisnospoon (Dec 4, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> luddly.neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Jarlaxle said:
> ...


DAMN....It won't let me plus rep you right now..That's bullshit.


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## thereisnospoon (Dec 4, 2012)

Connery said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > luddly.neddite said:
> ...


No...No and there's no such thing.


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## Connery (Dec 4, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Yea...


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 4, 2012)

Connery said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > luddly.neddite said:
> ...



No, handicapped and family bathrooms are a CAPITALISM statement, as in "Handicapped people's money spends, too, and more of them will come spend it here if we accommodate them."

I didn't even know they MADE special screwdrivers for lefthanded people.  I just steal my husband's tools when I need them.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 4, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > luddly.neddite said:
> ...



You obviously like me too much and too often.


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## skye (Dec 4, 2012)

Why shouldn't I buy some nice make up and cosmetics at half the price the expensive Department stores?

Same thing half the price?

Why not?


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## thereisnospoon (Dec 5, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



No, I just want you to buy me a beer....


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## thereisnospoon (Dec 5, 2012)

skye said:


> Why shouldn't I buy some nice make up and cosmetics at half the price the expensive Department stores?
> 
> Same thing half the price?
> 
> Why not?



HOW DARE YOU.....be a savvy consumer.


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## Koios (Dec 5, 2012)

skye said:


> Why shouldn't I buy some nice make up and cosmetics at half the price the expensive Department stores?
> 
> Same thing half the price?
> 
> Why not?



One reason that comes to mind is service.  The folks at Nordstrom, etc., can provide valuable end-user advice, which could lead to less consumption of the cosmetics and thus insure you do not look like a Walmart-shopper.

Just a thought.


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## wavingrl (Dec 5, 2012)

I drove the 30 minutes to the nearest Walmart yesterday. I bought socks and a few similar items. It was cluttered and disorganized and I left as soon as I could. While preparing dinner I realized I needed half/half. I drove the 5 minutes to Target. Very clean and orderly. Easily walked back to the grocery area and found the half/half and this Target has only a small section for grocery products. 

Then I checked out. Less than 5 minutes.

I just can't deal with 'too much'/Walmart. They are ok for some things but the shopping experience leaves much to be desired.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 5, 2012)

Management is not uniform from store to store no matter what the brand.   How many times have you been in a McDonalds in which the employees were surly and incompetent, service was slow, and you often get what you didn't order?   And then the next McDonalds runs like a well oiled machine with competent employees and a precision product served quickly and correctly?  The difference of course is in the management.  Some are far better at it than others.

Same with Target and Walmart.  Our nearest Walmart Super Center is sparkly clean, well organized, well kept, and enjoys a cheerful, knowledgeable, and helpful staff.  Our nearest Target, not so much.


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## wavingrl (Dec 5, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Management is not uniform from store to store no matter what the brand.   How many times have you been in a McDonalds in which the employees were surly and incompetent, service was slow, and you often get what you didn't order?   And then the next McDonalds runs like a well oiled machine with competent employees and a precision product served quickly and correctly?  The difference of course is in the management.  Some are far better at it than others.
> 
> Same with Target and Walmart.  Our nearest Walmart Super Center is sparkly clean, well organized, well kept, and enjoys a cheerful, knowledgeable, and helpful staff.  Our nearest Target, not so much.



I know. In my area--it would be a 45 minute drive to reach a 'better' Walmart. The closer one has issues with its clientele--closes at 11 PM, etc. I happened to be in the area and thought=='Go ahead and get the socks and also a package of ornament hangers.' The 'disorder or messiness' just made me want to leave and so I did.

Speaking of MacDonalds. I thought--why not try the new eggwhite McMuffin and I ordered one with a diet coke. I received a regular Egg McMuffin and a regular coke. C'est La Vie. It was 'on the way'. The 'better' MacDonald's---you have to navigate the busy intersection and 5/6 lanes of traffic. 

I am not a regular patron of any of these stores or in fact, of many stores. I used to think the Clinique make up products were worth the $ and I bought them at Macy's. I am not so certain now. After reading  some threads on make up posters who seem very knowledgeable expressed differing opinions. Occasionally I try an item from other lines. I can't really say 'better or worse'. Younger skin would help---lol.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 5, 2012)

wavingrl said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Management is not uniform from store to store no matter what the brand.   How many times have you been in a McDonalds in which the employees were surly and incompetent, service was slow, and you often get what you didn't order?   And then the next McDonalds runs like a well oiled machine with competent employees and a precision product served quickly and correctly?  The difference of course is in the management.  Some are far better at it than others.
> ...



If you're really concerned about good makeup for your individual skin to the point where you're willing to pay for Clinique, I suggest discussing the issue with a dermatologist and getting HIS recommendation.  It's not just that all makeup is not the same; one makeup isn't the same from person to person.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 5, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> wavingrl said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Or you could be somebody like me whose skin seems to be allergic to everything.  I can't use Max Factor or Revlon, for instance, without getting major bad reaction.   But I've never had a bad reaction from the cheap, mundane Maybelline.  You just never know.

At least Walmart usually carries a pretty good selection of all of the more affordable brands of makeup.  Not so much the really expensive stuff.


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## wavingrl (Dec 5, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > wavingrl said:
> ...


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Dec 5, 2012)

Koios said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> > Why shouldn't I buy some nice make up and cosmetics at half the price the expensive Department stores?
> ...



too stupid!! Obviously she has decided through the free market that the overall value at Walmart is superior. Libturd socialist geniuses would pass laws against our personal decisions and WalMart's low prices so we'd all be subservient to them and poor thanks to the higher liberal prices. 

And please dont flatter yourself, as a brainwashed liberal you're not capable of just a thought


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 5, 2012)

wavingrl said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


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## Foxfyre (Dec 5, 2012)

Also I don't NEED service to buy makeup.  I just need access to the product.  And if I find my skin tolerates and responds well to the cheaper stuff better than it does to most of the more expensive stuff--I doubt you can even buy Maybelline or Cover Girl at Nordstrums for instance--well I have a hard time finding a downside to that.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Dec 5, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Also I don't NEED service to buy makeup.  I just need access to the product.  And if I find my skin tolerates and responds well to the cheaper stuff better than it does to most of the more expensive stuff--I doubt you can even buy Maybelline or Cover Girl at Nordstrums for instance--well I have a hard time finding a downside to that.



the downside for liberals is that they don't like you exercising your rights as a free American making decisions that don't suit them.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 5, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Also I don't NEED service to buy makeup.  I just need access to the product.  And if I find my skin tolerates and responds well to the cheaper stuff better than it does to most of the more expensive stuff--I doubt you can even buy Maybelline or Cover Girl at Nordstrums for instance--well I have a hard time finding a downside to that.
> ...



Well focusing on Walmart, I do think there is an organized effort of the anti-free enterprise liberal wing teamed up with the unions who really do want to damage Walmart and bring it down.  Why Walmart?  Because it is the biggest and most successful of course.  But don't doubt for a minute that if they were somehow successful in their anti-Walmart campaign that they wouldn't then set their sights on whatever wound up at the top after Walmart was gone.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 5, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Also I don't NEED service to buy makeup.  I just need access to the product.  And if I find my skin tolerates and responds well to the cheaper stuff better than it does to most of the more expensive stuff--I doubt you can even buy Maybelline or Cover Girl at Nordstrums for instance--well I have a hard time finding a downside to that.



I quite like Physician's Formula for my eye makeup, and it's available at a very nice price at WalMart.  They also have a more complete selection of all the colors and types that brand makes than any other store I've found that carries it.


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## Koios (Dec 5, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > skye said:
> ...



Correct. But I was merely speaking to why she might choose differently, since that was what she queried.

Your other assumptions merely speak to your abject stupidity.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Dec 5, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> But don't doubt for a minute that if they were somehow successful in their anti-Walmart campaign that they wouldn't then set their sights on whatever wound up at the top after Walmart was gone.



yes, a liberal can never say how big is big in any sphere of government! For them control is a socialist  addiction 100% divorced from any possibility of helping people.

This is why they spied for Stalin and gave him the Bomb!


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## Connery (Dec 5, 2012)

Koios said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> > Why shouldn't I buy some nice make up and cosmetics at half the price the expensive Department stores?
> ...



The best service anyone can find would be through their own research and knowledge of the product they are looking for. I used to shop at Nordstrom all the time, had a person shopper named Alison and met the Nordstrom's when they opened up a store in my area a few years ago. Indeed, I would go specifically to Nordstrom to talk about clothes and shoes and all the good stuff.

Currently, I shop at Nordstrom only when the person I am shopping for wants something from there. The service used to be incomparable and was a leader in the industry. I still go to look at shoes, use their tailor when necessary  and do not buy perfume or cologne there anymore.

They even put out a nifty book.....


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## Foxfyre (Dec 5, 2012)

Connery said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > skye said:
> ...



Of course most of us, when we need expert advice on something, shop where we can get that kind of service.  But I don't think anybody should be so naive as not to understand that they PAY for that expert advice.  If it is worth it, it is money well spent.  Most Walmart shoppers though know pretty much what they want and recognize it when they see it, and they don't need anybody to guide them.  I am that kind of shopper and in most cases, unless I need counsel on somthing say for computer equipment, I enjoy shopping at my own pace and not having a sales clerk fidgiting at my shoulder.


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## Connery (Dec 5, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



When I need expert advice I do my research. A personal shopper is someone who gets me what I ask them to because I am too busy to retrieve to myself. In other words for me it is all baloney. That is one of the reasons I do not shop at Nordstrom much anymore.  I have always enjoyed this type of thing, but, if I was hanging out in Nordstrom with the sales people talking fashion and clothes the  least I could do was buy something. I would never buy a fedora from Nordstrom they have no idea what they are doing.

When it comes to fragrance I used to have something mixed for me on Wall Street and now I found a place where fragrances are made to order in another area of NYC that is more of what I am looking for.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 5, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



Only advice I need from the WalMart folks is where they hid the item I'm looking for the last time they rearranged the store.  If I don't already know how to tell which brand to choose, I research it at home before going shopping.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Dec 5, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Connery said:
> ...



and even if you make a mistake the prices are often so low it doens't matter much!! I wonder if the liberals want all women to go to Bergdorf's and spend $1000's on their make up?? After all they are the anti Walmart!!!


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## Foxfyre (Dec 5, 2012)

Connery said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Connery said:
> ...



Well happy to know somebody who can afford all that Connery.  I think most of us can't though.  I have to do my own fashion consulting and my fragrance comes from the Avon lady.


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## Connery (Dec 5, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...


It is not about affording it in as much a choosing a few things in life that I can appreciate. To me a fine fedora is a work of art, a fragrance is as unique as finger prints and a fabric is like the skein of life; some delicate, some rough-hewn.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 5, 2012)

Connery said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Connery said:
> ...



Oh no doubt.  And I don't begrudge those who enjoy that kind of luxury.  But when you have to choose between an expensive fragrance and a pot roast for Thursday night, the pot roast is probably going to win out.  But then you are probably not the demographic most Walmarts shoot for either.


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## Connery (Dec 5, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



 I am FF that is why I chop my own wood for heat, clean my own house, sew my clothes and do not eat out much at all. I take a small portion of the what it would cost and place it in an envelope and save until I have enough for that luxury...


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## Foxfyre (Dec 5, 2012)

Connery said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Connery said:
> ...



Ah okay.  Well then you're just as wierd as me and the rest of my friends.  I would rather pay somebody to chop my wood and do my own shopping.


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## Connery (Dec 5, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...




Yep it is all about choice... I look at my wood pile and get a sense of pride that I can heat my place with my own sweat and hard work. Then I go shopping...


----------



## thereisnospoon (Dec 5, 2012)

Koios said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> > Why shouldn't I buy some nice make up and cosmetics at half the price the expensive Department stores?
> ...



Nordstrom's is a different planet for most of us.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Dec 5, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Management is not uniform from store to store no matter what the brand.   How many times have you been in a McDonalds in which the employees were surly and incompetent, service was slow, and you often get what you didn't order?   And then the next McDonalds runs like a well oiled machine with competent employees and a precision product served quickly and correctly?  The difference of course is in the management.  Some are far better at it than others.
> 
> Same with Target and Walmart.  Our nearest Walmart Super Center is sparkly clean, well organized, well kept, and enjoys a cheerful, knowledgeable, and helpful staff.  Our nearest Target, not so much.



You beat me to it.
There are three Walmart stores within 20 minutes of where I am sitting.
The one closest to here is a clean and well run store. 
The one 8 miles away leaves much to be desired. It is understaffed.
The one 20 mins from here is a disaster. I do not shop there anymore.


----------



## thanatos144 (Dec 6, 2012)

I went food shopping last night. I had very little money for it. I had to feed my family of four on under a 100 dollars for about 8 days.  Got some things at save a lot but most of our meat and cheese and other goods like lunch meat for school had to come from Wal-Mart cause ALL the other stores are to expensive. So without Wal-Mart I would have found it impossible to feed my family this week. So I say to all you union supporters praying for Wal-Mart to fail. Fuck you go eat balls!


----------



## wavingrl (Dec 6, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> I went food shopping last night. I had very little money for it. I had to feed my family of four on under a 100 dollars for about 8 days.  Got some things at save a lot but most of our meat and cheese and other goods like lunch meat for school had to come from Wal-Mart cause ALL the other stores are to expensive. So without Wal-Mart I would have found it impossible to feed my family this week. So I say to all you union supporters praying for Wal-Mart to fail. Fuck you go eat balls!



well, I have never said that I hoped WalMart would fail, so I assume I am exempt from your suggestion. 

Still rather new here but this strikes me as inflammatory/offensive. Perhaps this is nothing compared to what others say/have said. 

I have many financial challenges and understand the frustration of trying to provide for a family with next to nothing. I hope things improve for you, thanatos144. 

This is a difficult time of year for many of us. We would like to do 'everything' for those we love and cannot do that. 

Much is said about the 'evils' of big box stores but they serve a purpose in the great economic melting pot. As do stores such as Goodwill. I have purchased some very nice things from Goodwill and paid much less than I would have paid at WalMart. Better quality --designer clothing and household items. If pennies must be pinched then I can pinch with the best. 

I worked in retail for many years and became somewhat disillusioned with paying the prices required to support department stores in the more expensive mall locations. The actual products, I learned, included the cost of the rent, utilities, employee salaries and benefits and transportation of goods as well as every other cost involved. 

If WalMart or others can buy in volume, select less desirable locations, run the stores without frills--that is OK with me. At times, I wish SAM's could offer a bag for my purchases --most shoppers buy in such quantities that they don't need bags. Supplying small businesses I have been told. Their prices on produce are competitive with WalMarts--I assume they are in fact affiliated with WalMart. Another alternative.


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## thanatos144 (Dec 6, 2012)

Was my language to rough for you? How about if I said go fornicate yourself and set testicles in your mouth cavity? Would that be less offensive for your delicate eyes? 























LMAO


----------



## CivFan (Dec 6, 2012)

We don't buy groceries from Wal-mart anymore.  DeMoulas/Market Basket stores are cheaper, better quality, better selection.  Twenty years ago, Wal-mart was one stop shopping.  Now some items are missing, with bunches of items from the neighboring shelf to fill the empty space.  I still get stuff at Wal-mart, after checking Wal-mart.com to see if that item is in the store.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Dec 6, 2012)

wavingrl said:


> well, I have never said that I hoped WalMart would fail, so I assume I am exempt from your suggestion.
> 
> Still rather new here but this strikes me as inflammatory/offensive. Perhaps this is nothing compared to what others say/have said.



not offensive at all unions and lilberals are in reality threatening to starve people to death with the higher prices Wal Mart and others would charge. 

100 years ago when people we really poor liberal unions really did starve people to death!! THey should be made illegal again!!

I have many financial challenges and understand the frustration of trying to provide for a family with next to nothing. I hope things improve for you, thanatos144. 

This is a difficult time of year for many of us. We would like to do 'everything' for those we love and cannot do that. 

Much is said about the 'evils' of big box stores but they serve a purpose in the great economic melting pot. As do stores such as Goodwill. I have purchased some very nice things from Goodwill and paid much less than I would have paid at WalMart. Better quality --designer clothing and household items. If pennies must be pinched then I can pinch with the best. 

I worked in retail for many years and became somewhat disillusioned with paying the prices required to support department stores in the more expensive mall locations. The actual products, I learned, included the cost of the rent, utilities, employee salaries and benefits and transportation of goods as well as every other cost involved. 

If WalMart or others can buy in volume, select less desirable locations, run the stores without frills--that is OK with me. At times, I wish SAM's could offer a bag for my purchases --most shoppers buy in such quantities that they don't need bags. Supplying small businesses I have been told. Their prices on produce are competitive with WalMarts--I assume they are in fact affiliated with WalMart. Another alternative.[/QUOTE]


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## wavingrl (Dec 6, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> wavingrl said:
> 
> 
> > well, I have never said that I hoped WalMart would fail, so I assume I am exempt from your suggestion.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

I think I am 'in overmyhead'--WalMart and unions--is that what this is about?

There has been protesting at/against WalMart--I know that. Exactly why--I wasn't motivated to learn. 'Life got in the way'.

Unions--I have never joined a union. Somewhat fear them and what I know about pros and cons would fit on a head of a pin. 

If Detroit is a good example of what life can become with powerful unions--I cannot support that. 

carry on.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Dec 6, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



I can't wear commercial perfumes because the scent fixatives make my nose hurt.  So I make my own body spray and customize the scent to my personal tastes.  The things you can learn from library books!


----------



## wavingrl (Dec 6, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Connery said:
> ...



peppermint oil is good. I must say--there are fragrances that I really enjoy. 

None that are worth hundreds of dollars. Nor do I think I could ever pay hundreds of dollars for items of clothing--shoes, handbags, blouses, etc.

I have wasted 'millions' on lesser things. A habit that I endeavor to break daily.


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## Uncensored2008 (Dec 6, 2012)

CivFan said:


> We don't buy groceries from Wal-mart anymore.  DeMoulas/Market Basket stores are cheaper, better quality, better selection.  Twenty years ago, Wal-mart was one stop shopping.  Now some items are missing, with bunches of items from the neighboring shelf to fill the empty space.  I still get stuff at Wal-mart, after checking Wal-mart.com to see if that item is in the store.



Wow, Market Basket. They had those here in California 40 years ago, but I don't see them anymore.


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## Uncensored2008 (Dec 6, 2012)

wavingrl said:


> I think I am 'in overmyhead'--WalMart and unions--is that what this is about?
> 
> There has been protesting at/against WalMart--I know that. Exactly why--I wasn't motivated to learn. 'Life got in the way'.
> 
> ...



The unions want Walmart, and it is just greed. The unions want to take food out of the mouths of millions of American families so that they can line their own pockets and stuff their greedy snouts.

That's about as simple as it can be stated - and it is 100% fact.


----------



## Connery (Dec 6, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Was my language to rough for you? How about if I said go fornicate yourself and set testicles in your mouth cavity? Would that be less offensive for your delicate eyes?
> LMAO




As I was reading your post, my son asked me to make franks and beans for dinner tonight. 


I made salmon instead....


----------



## PredFan (Dec 6, 2012)

Not only do I shop at Walmart, I've done quite a bit of shopping there since this left wing nut butt hurt started.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Dec 6, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> The unions want Walmart, and it is just greed. The unions want to take food out of the mouths of millions of American families so that they can line their own pockets and stuff their greedy snouts.
> 
> That's about as simple as it can be stated - and it is 100% fact.




now we have food stamps at least, 100 years ago they were quite willing to starve others to death! Its hard to imagine that we made them legal.


----------



## Unkotare (Dec 16, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> If one chooses to leave their country of origin and immigrate to the USA, they are expected to live by the rules of our culture as it relates to those native to this country. In other words  Americans. I will not throw the baby out with the bath water on cultural issues. This is America. We have a distinct American culture. Something liberals have been attempting to destroy for years. So if one comes here, they will have to get used to OUR holidays.





Culture is not a set of "rules."


----------



## tap4154 (Dec 16, 2012)

Walmart recently opened  a "neighborhood market" near me, and I love it! Great prices, and their meat is better than the "established" grocery stores, and cheaper! The employees are young folks and housewives, not the typical "lifer" union fare you see at the other grocery stores. Some cashiers at the local Albertsons and Vons have been there 30 years. IMO that kind of job should be a stepping stone, or just part time gig, not a career. Also just a nicer atmosphere at the Walmart grocery. And no fucking club cards or games!

They just put bike racks outside, and I often cruise by on the way home from the pier to grab a few bags of groceries.


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 16, 2012)

CivFan said:


> We don't buy groceries from Wal-mart anymore.  DeMoulas/Market Basket stores are cheaper, better quality, better selection.  Twenty years ago, Wal-mart was one stop shopping.  Now some items are missing, with bunches of items from the neighboring shelf to fill the empty space.  I still get stuff at Wal-mart, after checking Wal-mart.com to see if that item is in the store.



And that is why Walmart is not the only retail outlet there is.  Some prefer the selection and incentives Best Buy offers for electronics and Best Buy therefore thrives while Walmart sells enough electronics to maintain a comprehensive department featuring them.  As DVD stores couldn't compete with Netflix and On Demand cable and started going out of business, Amazon thrives   and Walmart now has one of the best selections of DVDs and Blueray for those who want to add to their home movie collections.

And Walmart is certainly not the only big box store to change the retail culture.  Almost all of the mom and pop office supply stores have not survived as Office Max, Ofice Depot, and Staples came onto the scene.  The mom and pop neighborhood hardware store couldn't compete with Lowes and Home Depot.   Folks who want the better quality offered by higher end store such as Penneys and Sears still shop at Penneys, Sears, Macys, and Dillards but those higher end stores are struggling in an economy in which more and more of us do have to pick and choose how we are going to spend our money.  Walmart, offering more lower end stuff, feels the pinch too but not as much.

But because Walmart is the biggest of the retail giants, that is the target of those who want to bring down large corporations for whatever motive.


----------



## wavingrl (Dec 16, 2012)

tap4154 said:


> Walmart recently opened  a "neighborhood market" near me, and I love it! Great prices, and their meat is better than the "established" grocery stores, and cheaper! The employees are young folks and housewives, not the typical "lifer" union fare you see at the other grocery stores. Some cashiers at the local Albertsons and Vons have been there 30 years. IMO that kind of job should be a stepping stone, or just part time gig, not a career. Also just a nicer atmosphere at the Walmart grocery. And no fucking club cards or games!
> 
> They just put bike racks outside, and I often cruise by on the way home from the pier to grab a few bags of groceries.
> 
> ...


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 16, 2012)

wavingrl said:


> tap4154 said:
> 
> 
> > Walmart recently opened  a "neighborhood market" near me, and I love it! Great prices, and their meat is better than the "established" grocery stores, and cheaper! The employees are young folks and housewives, not the typical "lifer" union fare you see at the other grocery stores. Some cashiers at the local Albertsons and Vons have been there 30 years. IMO that kind of job should be a stepping stone, or just part time gig, not a career. Also just a nicer atmosphere at the Walmart grocery. And no fucking club cards or games!
> ...


----------



## tap4154 (Dec 16, 2012)

wavingrl said:


> I hope the Walmart  for which plans to begin construction are scheduled for Jan '13 will be like this one. Several community groups still plan to have petitions signed to oppose construction but it sounds like  that will not change the plans.
> 
> This particular strip mall was built in the 60's and has been declining for several decades. Yes, it would have been wonderful if 20/30 small business owners could have opened shops and restaurants stimulating the right  amount of growth for that area. That is not how it goes around here.



There was a HUGE fight here when the first big Walmart had plans to open on a long-deserted school site in town. Took many years of local bickering and lies from the "progressive" opponents, but after it was finally all built, even most of the opposition admitted it was a very good thing. It turned a huge, weed-filled, unused and blighted parcel into a full shopping center, with Walmart as the anchor and numerous small businesses surrounding it. Also brings millions of dollars to the city coffers in taxes and fees, as well as to the school district, which still owns the land.

The shopping center that the new Walmart "Neighborhood Market" is in was also very run down and declining for decades, and has now been completely rebuilt with most of the old businesses staying, and now enjoying more customers (and a much nicer look), as well as many new small businesses and restaurants that have been added.


----------



## Foxfyre (Dec 16, 2012)

tap4154 said:


> wavingrl said:
> 
> 
> > I hope the Walmart  for which plans to begin construction are scheduled for Jan '13 will be like this one. Several community groups still plan to have petitions signed to oppose construction but it sounds like  that will not change the plans.
> ...



And that is something to consider too.  There aren't very many Walmarts around that also don't share space with numerous other businesses who benefit from using Walmart as an anchor store.  Shopping malls have operated on just such a principle for decades now.

And yes, often a Walmart will decimate some small businesses in some small towns, but it just as often provides sufficient jobs and market base that people are encouraged to locate or stay there and other businesses benefit from it being there.  And it encourages shoppers to stay in town to shop rather than drive to the nearest larger city.

Better cars, more affluence, and better highways encourage folks to go to the city to shop for big ticket items or orders and that has had as much drag on the mom and pop stores as anything Walmart or other big box stores have done.  New Mexico, and I suspect all other states, is dotted with tiny communities  that have no businesses left.  And the decimation of their populations happened without any Walmart or other big box store of any kind in the area.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Dec 16, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> And yes, often a Walmart will decimate some small businesses in some small towns, but it just as often provides sufficient jobs and market base that people are encouraged to locate or stay there and other businesses benefit from it being there.




ah yes great point!!! and  don't forget that people who shop at WalMart walk out the door with more in their pockets and so spend elsewhere in town to stimulate the economy. This is the very essence of economic progress. WalMart must represent a real stimulus (not Obama stimulus)of $1 trillion at least given what it has saved us in lower prices!!


----------



## thereisnospoon (Dec 16, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> > If one chooses to leave their country of origin and immigrate to the USA, they are expected to live by the rules of our culture as it relates to those native to this country. In other words  Americans. I will not throw the baby out with the bath water on cultural issues. This is America. We have a distinct American culture. Something liberals have been attempting to destroy for years. So if one comes here, they will have to get used to OUR holidays.
> ...



Yes it is. Move to France. You will be expected to learn the French language and obey their customs. Those are rules.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Dec 16, 2012)

wavingrl said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > I went food shopping last night. I had very little money for it. I had to feed my family of four on under a 100 dollars for about 8 days.  Got some things at save a lot but most of our meat and cheese and other goods like lunch meat for school had to come from Wal-Mart cause ALL the other stores are to expensive. So without Wal-Mart I would have found it impossible to feed my family this week. So I say to all you union supporters praying for Wal-Mart to fail. Fuck you go eat balls!
> ...



_Wa_lmart...Sam_ Wal_ton...
_Sam_'s Club..._Sam_ Walton..Same company.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Dec 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Connery said:
> ...



So THAT was the unusual odor I detected!!!!!
Nyuk nyuk....JK


----------



## thereisnospoon (Dec 16, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> CivFan said:
> 
> 
> > We don't buy groceries from Wal-mart anymore.  DeMoulas/Market Basket stores are cheaper, better quality, better selection.  Twenty years ago, Wal-mart was one stop shopping.  Now some items are missing, with bunches of items from the neighboring shelf to fill the empty space.  I still get stuff at Wal-mart, after checking Wal-mart.com to see if that item is in the store.
> ...



Never heard of that chain.


----------



## Unkotare (Dec 16, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > thereisnospoon said:
> ...





No, it's not. Try to learn the meaning of terms before you use them.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Dec 16, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> wavingrl said:
> 
> 
> > tap4154 said:
> ...


----------



## squeeze berry (Dec 16, 2012)

I bought 2 of my guns there

a Ruger 10/22 and a Savage bolt action 22


----------



## thereisnospoon (Dec 16, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


You have an opinion. I deal with reality. And that reality is that when one immigrates to a nation, they obey the laws and customs of that nations. And the assimilate to the culture.
Case closed.


----------



## Unkotare (Dec 16, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > thereisnospoon said:
> ...



Case open.

Read it again: Culture is not a set of rules. One obeys laws because (when it comes right down to it) one has no choice but to do so or face punishment. One adopts customs as a matter of choice and degree. You don't even understand what culture is.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Dec 16, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



You are arguing just to argue.
Case closed. Because I said so. Discussion terminated. Go argue with yourself.


----------



## Unkotare (Dec 16, 2012)

If you were eager to be wrong you should feel quite satisfied now.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Dec 29, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Wanna hear about over inflated labor rates. The Shop Rite chain in the NY Metro area, was 100% union. In 1986 my friend's sister was a part time cashier at out town store. Sitting down?.....She was getting SEVENTEEN dollars per hour. That is absurd.
> I don't know if the unions were run out but I do know that many of the chains up there that were union are union no more.



Unions drove 30 million jobs off shore and probably Shop Rite to install customer scanners a lot faster. Why not just make unions illegal again?


----------



## AquaAthena (Dec 29, 2012)

*"Do you shop at Walmart?"*

Yes, I do, about twice a month, for groceries. I am proud to support those contented employees. They are happy with management and grateful to have employment. They laugh a lot....


----------



## Connery (Dec 29, 2012)

AquaAthena said:


> *"Do you shop at Walmart?"*
> 
> Yes, I do, about twice a month, for groceries. I am proud to support those contented employees. They are happy with management and grateful to have employment. They laugh a lot....


They have a lot to laugh at.


----------



## impalero (Dec 29, 2012)

Nope. I don't believe in supporting Commie Walmart nor supporting them to give my dollars to Commie China.


----------



## skye (Dec 29, 2012)

They have a few or  several things that Bloomingdales or  Nordstrom  has,  half the price.

Nothing wrong with that.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Dec 29, 2012)

impalero said:


> Nope. I don't believe in supporting Commie Walmart nor supporting them to give my dollars to Commie China.



Oh please. Do you really believe Walmart is the ONLY retailer who's shelves are stocked with good made in China?


----------



## impalero (Dec 29, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> impalero said:
> 
> 
> > Nope. I don't believe in supporting Commie Walmart nor supporting them to give my dollars to Commie China.
> ...



Nope, but Walmart Lobbyists have meddled in my Government to make sure they come out on top. That is not Free Market Capitalism where the Nanny Government creates policies to help out your industry / company. As a consumer, I look for American made products as much as I can. Also, as a consumer and capitalist, I can choose not to shop there or anywhere Chinese products are sold.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Dec 29, 2012)

impalero said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> > impalero said:
> ...



Yeah, ok. 
It's all a grand conspiracy. Walmart buys favors from the US government. I got ya.
Hey genius, our federal government has created crony capitalism by picking winners and losers for it's own self serving purposes.


----------



## Unkotare (Dec 29, 2012)

impalero said:


> Also, as a consumer and capitalist, I can choose not to shop there or anywhere Chinese products are sold.





 You don't even know what you are saying.


----------



## impalero (Dec 29, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> impalero said:
> 
> 
> > thereisnospoon said:
> ...


----------



## impalero (Dec 29, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> impalero said:
> 
> 
> > Also, as a consumer and capitalist, I can choose not to shop there or anywhere Chinese products are sold.
> ...



Then let me elaborate:
If enough people chose to not shop at Walmart because of their policies and they went out of business, it would be the Free Market at work. Business's can fail for poor products, poor service, poor management or poor policies. It can be any reason to the consumer if they choose not to support that business.


----------



## Unkotare (Dec 29, 2012)

impalero said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > impalero said:
> ...




Even you should be old enough by now to know that's not going to happen. And that is also...


----------



## Unkotare (Dec 29, 2012)

You know the right to petition the government is enshrined in our Constitution, right kid?


----------



## Unkotare (Dec 29, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lplze3ONJWo]Billy Joel - Prelude/Angry Young Man (Original Studio Recording) - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## nitroz (Dec 29, 2012)

Sometimes I shop there. But thats only for condoms, videogames, or snacks.


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## Unkotare (Dec 29, 2012)

Have you heard of Deng Xiaoping, kid?


----------



## Pogo (Dec 29, 2012)

Almost never, and on the rare occasion I'm forced to I feel like I'm walking into a porn shop and I get the hell out of there as fast as possible.  Then I go home and shower and try to forget what I just did.

Down where my parents live the Mal-Wart has driven many local businesses out, and when they moved from the old store to the new supercenter they just abandoned the old one (rather than building it up) and it sits there to this day, seventeen years on, empty, dominating a moribund parking lot.  Plus they strongarmed the town into putting up new lanes and traffic lights.  Now the town is dying everywhere but that supercenter.  Mal-Wart sucks the blood of community.

I ain't supporting that.


----------



## thanatos144 (Dec 30, 2012)

impalero said:


> Nope. I don't believe in supporting Commie Walmart nor supporting them to give my dollars to Commie China.



You have a computer made in the USA?


----------



## thanatos144 (Dec 30, 2012)

Pogo said:


> Almost never, and on the rare occasion I'm forced to I feel like I'm walking into a porn shop and I get the hell out of there as fast as possible.  Then I go home and shower and try to forget what I just did.
> 
> Down where my parents live the Mal-Wart has driven many local businesses out, and when they moved from the old store to the new supercenter they just abandoned the old one (rather than building it up) and it sits there to this day, seventeen years on, empty, dominating a moribund parking lot.  Plus they strongarmed the town into putting up new lanes and traffic lights.  Now the town is dying everywhere but that supercenter.  Mal-Wart sucks the blood of community.
> 
> I ain't supporting that.



What bullshit. Every walmart around is surrounded by small shops that were not there before walmart. So if you honestly believe that drive away business then you are a fucking retard.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Dec 30, 2012)

impalero said:


> Nope. I don't believe in supporting Commie Walmart nor supporting them to give my dollars to Commie China.



1) China is not communist since most companies are now privately owned

2) Every dollar that goes to China must then be spend in the USA. It comes back!!! Econ 101

3) China has saved Ameicans $trillions with their low prices. We can be thankful. That means American have had trillions extra to stimulatively  spend here in the USA, in a sustainable way, thanks to China 

4) Any problems in our economy are due to liberal interference, not due to China. Sorry


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Dec 30, 2012)

Pogo said:


> Mal-Wart sucks the blood of community.
> 
> .



Saving us $trillions and $trillions is sucking our blood????????? Only  a liberal could get everything 100% backwards


----------



## thanatos144 (Dec 30, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Mal-Wart sucks the blood of community.
> ...



Progressive must mean to fucking stupid to pay a lower price.


----------



## skookerasbil (Dec 30, 2012)

.............regularly go to Walmart for my ammo.

Noticed some limpwrister giving me the evil eye just before Christmas.......was later in the wiffle ball bat section checking out his own home defense options.


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## Unkotare (Dec 30, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> impalero said:
> 
> 
> > Nope. I don't believe in supporting Commie Walmart nor supporting them to give my dollars to Commie China.
> ...






It's not quite that simple.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Dec 30, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Almost never, and on the rare occasion I'm forced to I feel like I'm walking into a porn shop and I get the hell out of there as fast as possible.  Then I go home and shower and try to forget what I just did.
> ...



Pogo "stick in his asshole" is just another one of these pro union maggots that is pissed off about the downfall of organized labor and is using Walmart as a scapegoat.


----------



## Pogo (Dec 31, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Almost never, and on the rare occasion I'm forced to I feel like I'm walking into a porn shop and I get the hell out of there as fast as possible.  Then I go home and shower and try to forget what I just did.
> ...



Well this one sure isn't.  The supercenter is built up all by itself, and the parking lot the abandoned one dominates (because of its size) is virtually dead.  Half the storefronts are empty and the ones that get rented don't last long.  And the two near where I live follow the same pattern.  But hey what do I know, I'm only an eyewitness.  

However I'm not aware how "you are a fucking retard" actually makes any valid point at all, so thanks for playing and be sure to play the Fucking Retard board game at home.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 


thereisnospoon said:


> Pogo "stick in his asshole" is just another one of these pro union maggots that is pissed off about the downfall of organized labor and is using Walmart as a scapegoat.



This would be Mississippi.  There are no unions, even in the businesses that got driven out, and certainly Mal-Wart has done everything it can think of to keep them out of its business.  So none of this is about the "downfall of unions".  It's about the downfall of Community.


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## koshergrl (Dec 31, 2012)

Whatever. Our community was hugely enriched by the huge Walmart that opened up. People can afford clothes for their kids now, and school supplies, and toys that they would otherwise have to travel a hundred miles to pick up at comparable prices.

Thanks to the excruciating regulations and fees associated with small community business, ordinary people can no longer afford the things they offer. So Walmart fills that need. Thanks to Walmart, my children today are much better equipped than my children were 20 years ago.


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## zakdavis (Dec 31, 2012)

I haven't been to a wally world in ages because 
1) I'm in Hawaii, and they don't sell ramen.
2) The shopette is across the street.


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## AsheedMidrarwz (Dec 31, 2012)

So there are some people who are unhappy with Wal*Mart wages?  That's their own fault.  Make yourself more valuable and find a better job.  Dumb asses.


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## Foxfyre (Dec 31, 2012)

AsheedMidrarwz said:


> So there are some people who are unhappy with Wal*Mart wages?  That's their own fault.  Make yourself more valuable and find a better job.  Dumb asses.



Yep.  Walmart is a for profit business that exists to benefit its owners and shareholders.  Its motive for hiring anybody at all is solely to benefit its owners and shareholders and it won't pay any more than it needs to to accomplish that any more than it pays more than it has to pay for its building costs, taxes, utilities, inventory, and other costs of doing business.  Those employees who merit promotions and raises do so because it is in Walmart's interest to benefit from their experience, abilities, work ethic etc.   The fact that the employees are also benefitted is secondary to Walmart's motives.

But do not think those employees have anybody's interests in mind but their own when they go to work for Walmart.  They work for their own benefit and reasons and not for Walmart's benefit.  The fact that they do benefit Walmart is secondary to their motives.

Neither is forced into doing what they do.  But because they choose to do what they do, both are inadvertently benefitted.  That is how capitalism works.


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## Samson (Dec 31, 2012)

I do not like to shop at Wal-Mart.




Too many economically disadvantaged minorities shop there.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Dec 31, 2012)

Samson said:


> I do not like to shop at Wal-Mart.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



of course its silly to pay more at other places, and bad for the economy to pay more than necessary too!


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## thereisnospoon (Jan 1, 2013)

Pogo said:


> thanatos144 said:
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Generally, Walmarts and for that matter most big box stores built as anchor stores in shopping plazas, help attract news businesses. 
In some instances, yes, in run down areas or those areas where the neighborhood is in decline, it is not the fault of the anchor store what happens around it. 
Could be that the type businesses located and subsequently moved out, were doomed in the first place. Could be the lease terms make it impossible for a business to make a profit.
What the Walmart scapegoat people like to forget is there are many other brick and mortar  stores such as Best Buy, Target, K-Mart, Office Max, Office Depot that are in the same boat as Walmart. 
Your anger is misplaced.


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## Pogo (Jan 1, 2013)

thereisnospoon said:


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Thanks but my "anger" is nonexistent.  You'll notice it was two other posters who invoked "stick in his ass", "maggots" and "fucking retard".  So the anger comes entirely from two people denigrating what is for them an abstract description.  It's interesting to ponder why that might be but they would have to explain that.

As for the "anchor" theory -- sounds nice but I haven't seen it.  The Best Buys and Office Maxes, they're specialty stores and it stands to reason they'd be attracted to some large pre-existing anchor of some kind.  But let's be honest, their clientele is not in the least congruent with that of Mal-Wart, so I don't see an affinity that would make that happen.  Perhaps that's the PR line Mal-Wart says.  If so, it resembles the rest of their wares: cheap.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 1, 2013)

Pogo said:


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You have a problem with cheap?  If I can buy a DVD at Walmart for $5 that I would pay $12 for at Amazon, I consider myself fortunate.  And if I can buy a replacement TV for our kitchennook at Walmart for 30% or more less than I can buy the same product at Best Buy, I also consider myself fortunate.  The advantage the specialty big box stores have over Walmart is that they specialize and therefore can offer a larger selection and, on occasion, even deeper discounts on some products.

Back during WWII, my great aunt, widowed fairly young with four girls to raise, owned and operated a general store in a tiny little town in New Mexico.  She offered everything from sewing fabric to tractor tire repair kits to hardware to groceries.  Because she was big enough to withstand the risk, she was able to offer credit that others couldn't.   But because she could not carry large selections of anything due to space limitations, speciality stores existed alongside of her impressive business.  She was the Walmart of her day and amassed quite a nest egg in the process.  When the war ended, the neaby base closed, and the guys were returning home from overseas to start up their own businesses, and she closed the store, bought a farm in West Texas and lived quite comfortably for the rest of her life.

'Walmart is not a specialty store which is why it offers no serious competition to the successful specialty stores.  Walmart is a big general store with the same appeal that such stores have offered for two hundred years in this country.

And American commerce is thriving just fine alongside Walmart as it has thrived competing with general stores over the decades.


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## thereisnospoon (Jan 1, 2013)

Pogo said:


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Then you have not been looking. Or you've been seeing it but dismissing it because it does not fit your template.
There are three walmarts within ten miles of here. All three are accompanied by several other specialty shops and restaurants. 
As far as anger, do you REALLY want me to dig up your posts and quote them in the thread? C'mon. You hate Walmart because you have a particular perception of the company or the stores themselves.


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## SteadyMercury (Jan 1, 2013)

Generally speaking I'll shop where the product I wish to buy is cheapest.

The argument that they are driving competing Mom & Pop stores out of business doesn't make sense to me, seems more like they are offering a more efficient alternative that is an improvement is price and selection. If Mom & Pop can't compete it isn't my job to subsidize them by shopping there anyway, it is there job to figure out how to compete or find a different way to earn a living.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 1, 2013)

thereisnospoon said:


> Pogo said:
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It is true that a Walmart can put some folks out of business, but that is only because the competition is unable to adapt or find ways to successfully compete.  The new restaurant down the road can easily put a substandard nearby cafe out of business, and Sears and Penneys have closed down many a small dress shop.  How does the small town tire dealer compete with a Big O?

Those who think they are in the business of running a hardware store or gift shop won't compete effectively against the new Walmart in town.  Those who understand that they are providing products and services that people need and want, who recognize and provide what those are, will do much better.

 Many a small town has had its commercial base saved by the presence of a Walmart that keeps folks home instead of them driving to the nearby city to shop.  And in the city, Walmarts are almost always anchor stores in the shopping centers they occupy.


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## wavingrl (Jan 1, 2013)

SteadyMercury said:


> Generally speaking I'll shop where the product I wish to buy is cheapest.
> 
> The argument that they are driving competing Mom & Pop stores out of business doesn't make sense to me, seems more like they are offering a more efficient alternative that is an improvement is price and selection. If Mom & Pop can't compete it isn't my job to subsidize them by shopping there anyway, it is there job to figure out how to compete or find a different way to earn a living.



Where could we shop to find products that aren't made overseas and available at a lower cost?


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## Foxfyre (Jan 1, 2013)

wavingrl said:


> SteadyMercury said:
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> 
> > Generally speaking I'll shop where the product I wish to buy is cheapest.
> ...




If Americans can make products that people need and want and are willing to pay for, and if they can offer these at a lower cost than the foreign competiton, it is a no brainer that such a business will thrive.   But when you have 'do gooders' constantly pushing for higher taxes, more and more regulation, higher minimum wage, etc. etc. etc., it makes it much more difficult, if not impossible, for Americans to compete.  Which is why we have lost a huge chunk of our automobile manufacturing base and are making precious few electronics, appliances, components, etc. and our textile industries have been decimated.

So American business has adapated with a much larger dependence on service industries and marketing what is manufactured elsewhere.  Walmart chooses to offer products people want at prices people are willing to pay.  It is not Walmart's fault that Americans aren't offering the same products at a better price.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 1, 2013)

Don't blame Walmart for carrying products 'made in China.'  Look to your elected representatives at the local, state, and federal levels who are creating the situation that makes that the most profitable way to go.


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## SteadyMercury (Jan 1, 2013)

American manufacturers can be most competitive (and hopefully profitable) by leveraging their productivity and skills/knowledge to build higher profit margin widgets.

In other words, if you're in the US and want to compete with China it is better to be building jet engines than plastic spatulas.


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## Katzndogz (Jan 1, 2013)

The businesses that Wal Mart puts out of business generally need to go out of business to begin with.  These mom and pops in small towns have taken advantage of a captive customer base for years.   They over charge, offer no customer service and sell shoddy merchandise all because someone doesn't want to drive to the next city over.


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## thereisnospoon (Jan 1, 2013)

wavingrl said:


> SteadyMercury said:
> 
> 
> > Generally speaking I'll shop where the product I wish to buy is cheapest.
> ...



"Overseas"? No where. inane question.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 1, 2013)

SteadyMercury said:


> American manufacturers can be most competitive (and hopefully profitable) by leveraging their productivity and skills/knowledge to build higher profit margin widgets.
> 
> In other words, if you're in the US and want to compete with China it is better to be building jet engines than plastic spatulas.



And yet there should be no reason that Americans can't compete making those spatulas either, if we could just get the rules and regs off the backs of the people who would otherwise jump at the chance to make them.


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## Pogo (Jan 1, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


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"Cheap" in the context I used it means "flimsy, haphazardly thrown together".  It specifically referred to the Mal-Wart PR story.


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## wavingrl (Jan 1, 2013)

thereisnospoon said:


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inane.

What else can be said.  
'Cheap', disposable. Rather accurate descriptors of the culture at present.  

I shop at Walmart but I don't enjoy the experience. I bought a package of socks--didn't bother to take out my glasses and read the fyi. Clearly not cotton--they were cheap and I don't care if I throw them away. After one washing they don't look good. fwiw.


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## Pogo (Jan 1, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Foxfyre said:
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For this specific post, I received the following:



> Hi, you have received -1527 reputation points from Warrior102.
> Reputation was given for this post.
> 
> Comment:
> ...



He does this every time his 48-hour limit from the last Neg expires.  Even though there's no exchange taking place between us.
So I think we can put the question of who owns "anger" to rest by now.




Foxfyre said:


> Many a small town has had its commercial base saved by the presence of a Walmart that keeps folks home instead of them driving to the nearby city to shop.  And in the city, Walmarts are almost always anchor stores in the shopping centers they occupy.



I have yet to see the former, ever.  As for the latter, again I'll speak to the one I know by experience, on Tchoupitoulas in New Orleans, where the Mal-Wart is the only thing in its own space, so that doesn't apply either.  There's nothing there getting "anchored" at all.  And once again, any "barnacle" stores would need the same kind of clientele anyway -- that would mean I dunno, Dollar General and Burger King?

Sorry but every Mal-Wart location I know of directly contradicts this PR pipe dream.  Can you provide any actual examples of this abstraction?


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## thereisnospoon (Jan 1, 2013)

wavingrl said:


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I have no idea what you're talking about.
I have had the same pair of tennis shoes which I bought at Walmart for 4 years.
And a pair of hikers which I beat the crap out of at work. These are at least three years old.
I buy my jeans at Costco. Other stuff as well. 
I don't understand where you are going with this.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 1, 2013)

SteadyMercury said:


> The argument that they are driving competing Mom & Pop stores out of business doesn't make sense to me,



1) it's like saying  they are driving  the horse and buggy people out of business. Do we want government to say "no" to Walmart and "yes" to a Mom and Pop that then becomes the biggest Mom and Pop" and then drives the smaller Mom and Pops out in that area???

2) Walmart is a boom to the 1,000's who immediately apply for work there as well as the surrounding town that gets to absorb all the extra money around because of WalMarts low prices.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 1, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Pogo said:
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Which is why I said 'almost' rather than 'always' for the anchor store analogy for the city.  Many small town Walmarts stand alone too.  But how many small town cafes, gas stations, and specialty shops benefit from a Walmart being there and keeping folks home to shop rather than the folks driving to the city?   When they drive to the city, they'll likely stop for a bite to eat, and gas up the car with cheaper gasoline before they return home.  But if they can get what they need at Walmart, they will stay home, eat at the local diner, and buy gasoline at a few cents higher price because it is more economical to do that than it is to drive into the city.


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## Pogo (Jan 1, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


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From the references to driving or not driving to "the city", I take it you're talking about Suburbia there.  I'm not.  And none of the Mal-Warts I'm familiar with, mostly in small towns, one in a city, fit the mold you've described.  Not one.  But I did at least grow up in Suburbia so I'm familiar with it (even if it's not a place I'd ever care to return to), and the phenomena of going to the city to get your stuff is simply something that AFAIK went away fifty years ago.

So I'm not thinking at all about Mal-Wart versus the city; I'm thinking about Mal-Wart versus its own community.  And nothing I've seen of those dynamics is positive.  I can't think of a single way things in general got better post-MalWart than they were pre-MalWart.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 1, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


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All great points!! If the Liberals can ban Walmart, take over health care with Barrycare, and invest in Solyndra,A123, AboundSolar,Fiskar, and Range Fuels all for different reasons all they are really saying is that they are braindead socialists who lack the IQ to understand capitalism.


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## Pogo (Jan 1, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


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Ah, he strikes again, as only Special Ed can do.  Where do you see anything about "banning" Wal-Mart?
Maybe they sell reading lessons there.  I'm sure it's cheap too.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 1, 2013)

Pogo said:


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oh so the liberals want to subsidize Walmart??? or just enjoy being  critical of it out of pure economic illiteracy???


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## Pogo (Jan 1, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


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.... _that's_ a retraction?

Try this: go back to the thread title.  Stop and ruminate on what it means.  It's really not that deep.


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## jillian (Jan 1, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


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who's talking about 'banning' walmart? 

damn, you're stupid.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 1, 2013)

jillian said:


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Julian has the liberal record from rdeam: 125 violent personal attack posts without a hint of substance. I'm sure your mother is proud of you!!


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## Foxfyre (Jan 1, 2013)

Pogo said:


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Well I don't know where you live or what you have observed.  But in our former work, I drove the entire state of New Mexico, a lot of West Texas, and a good chunk of Arizona and my experience seems to be pretty typical throughout that entire large area.  I have lived in small towns and I have lived long enough to watch small towns grow into big towns and I have watched small towns essentially vanish off the map.

You can always find exceptions of course, but for the most part, Walmarts have been a positive influence in both small town and big cities.  Which is why they continue to thrive and why the company keeps building more of them.


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## SteadyMercury (Jan 1, 2013)

Another argument I don't get is that they drive down wages.

Do people really believe the cashier at the Mom & Pop store is making much more than min wage or have some benefits package with healthcare and a 401k? Sure lots of Walmart employees make shit, but so are the workers at the competing local business. Different toilet, but still shit.


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## thereisnospoon (Jan 1, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> SteadyMercury said:
> 
> 
> > The argument that they are driving competing Mom & Pop stores out of business doesn't make sense to me,
> ...



No amount of logic is going to counteract the irrational perceptions of the anti Walmart crowd.


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## thereisnospoon (Jan 1, 2013)

Pogo said:


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go to google maps...use these coordinates....35.139274,-80.733474..
The large building at this location is a Walmart. All of the other buildings surrounding the parking lot were built AFTER the walmart. These are specialty shops and restaurants. All retail and business space is occupied.
Here's another......
35.213359,-80.689217
and another.... The land to the left is owned by the developer of the Walmart property. It is actually under construction right now.
43.320128,-73.612702
So please, maybe in New Orleans things aren't going so well. Try not to limit your world to what makes you secure.


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## Cecilie1200 (Jan 1, 2013)

How about we put it this way?

I shop wherever I can find the items I want at the price I want to pay.  If that's a local specialty store, then fine.  If that's WalMart, then it is.

I don't shop as a charitable act, or a political statement; I shop to stock my house with the items my family and I need and want to live our lives.  If a small store wants my business, they'd better be smart enough to acquire it by providing me something I need, rather than essentially begging me for a handout or trying to play on my guilt.  I don't waste time with guilt in general, and I'll be damned if I feel guilty over someone I don't know and don't owe anything to.

I don't feel embarrassed or ashamed on those occasions when I shop at WalMart, either because I've been intimidated into believing I "owe" it to other stores to shop there, or because I'm self-consciously assuring myself that I'm too good to shop around such rabble.  I automatically assume I'm better than everyone around me, anyway, so I don't give it much thought.

Lastly, I don't worry about "keeping my money local", for two reasons:  first, I have no idea what happens to my money after it leaves my wallet, nor is it any of my business.  Maybe the owner of the local mom-and-pop is sending that cash to relatives in another state, or another country.  Second, the WalMart I'm shopping at is located in my community; yeah, it's owned by a corporation headquartered in Oklahoma, if I remember correctly.  So what?  The employees in the store are my neighbors.  They spend their paychecks in my community.  The store I'm shopping in pays taxes in my community, wherever their headquarters happens to be.  And when it comes time to support charities, be it the Salvation Army bell ringer at Christmas or the Girl Scout troop selling cookies or whatever, that store in my community is supporting charities in my community.

And finally, if you don't want to shop somewhere, don't.  But it's none of your damned business where I shop, and it's not your place to decide where I "should" shop, or to decide what shopping choices are available to me.

What is it with people in this society today that they insist on voting in elections for which they haven't been issued a ballot?


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## Pogo (Jan 2, 2013)

thereisnospoon said:


> Pogo said:
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Has nothing to do with "what makes me feel secure" -- it has to do with what I _know_, because I wouldn't presume to talk about what I don't.  I cite real-life examples I'm directly and thoroughly familiar with.  That's it.

But let me put the same sentiments an entirely different way: I avoid Mal-Wart because to go in there makes me feel that I'm cheating somebody I know, and enabling somebody I don't know to cheat people I do know.  I do believe choices have consequences, and there are those entities who I'd rather my choices not enable if I'm not forced to.  And I'm fortunate enough to not be forced to go to Mal-Wart most of the time -- so I don't.  Hope that's simple enough.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 2, 2013)

Pogo said:


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You feel how you feel.  And if you prefer to shop somewhere other than Walmart, well that's what freedom looks like.  Obviously everybody doesn't shop at Walmart as evidenced by all the other businesses that are thriving despite the fact that there are successful Walmarts all over the country.   There is absolutely nothing wrong with not shopping at Walmart.

But those who think they are somehow being noble or honorable or doing their duty by not shopping at Walmart are at worst hypocritical unless they hold everybody to the same standard.  But assuming that they really believe Walmart is evil, in my opinion it at best makes them a willing subject of the organized anti-Walmart propaganda campaign.


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 2, 2013)

Pogo said:


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Conversely, couldn't you say that you are cheating the people who work at WM by not shopping there?

I live in a town of about 4500 people. Wal Mart is the main place to shop.I own an auto repair shop .  We were a little nervous when the new Super Center first opened 20 years ago that they would take some of our business. 

Ends up, they took little, if any. Yes their tire prices are less than ours, just as an example. But my customers prefer doing business with me and spending a few extra dollars to be sure that they get the same service I would give my own mother or wife. Something they don't get at Wal Mart.

It's the same reason that when we go out to eat we eat at a local mom and pop instead of McDonalds, for instance, sure it costs a few more dollars but the difference is the mom and pop has figured out how to leverage service into the equation to keep their customer base.

and their hamburgers just taste better.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 2, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


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And there you've hit the nail on the head.  You provide a service that isn't available in the big box stores.  And because Walmart is keeping more folks home to shop instead of the same folks driving to the bigger commercial centers, more small mom and pop businesses are able to thrive even as some are unable to compete.

Our American railroads severely damaged themselves and almost destroyed themselves by foolishly thinking they were in the railroad business instead of understanding that they were in the transportation business.  By not figuring that out and adapting their prices and services to accommodate the nation's growing need for transportation, they lost a huge market share both in transporting freight and passengers.  Some of that they have never recouped.

If you think your business is running an auto repair shop, you're probably screwed.  If you know your business is providing a reassuring and competent and people friendly service at an affordable price, you will likely be successful in business forever.


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 2, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


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My dad started this business when I was 12 years old. after college and a stint in the Army I partnered up with him, we now have customers who's grandparents started doing business with dad way back when. That's customer loyalty, well earned IMO


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 2, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


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What customers or people want does not matter to liberals!!! They feel free, in their ego manical way,  to direct every aspect of human life as they see fit. This is why they loved Stalin so much!!


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 2, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


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Hyperbole much? Even joes mom thought he was an asshole


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 2, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


> Hyperbole much? Even joes mom thought he was an asshole



Well yeah, after he sent her to the gulag.....


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## Foxfyre (Jan 2, 2013)

You know the point hit home where it hurts when there is no attempt to rebut it with anything other than insult and/or demonization of the member making it.


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## thereisnospoon (Jan 2, 2013)

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Cheating people? How so?


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## thereisnospoon (Jan 2, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


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30 plus years ago, a K Mart opened a store in a nearby town. The store was slated to have an auto shop. The local auto shop owners went to the town government, fought the shop and won. Why? They were fearful the K Mart would take away their business. An irrational fear as it turned out. K-Mart decided not to battle the town and instead expanded the building materials dept. Back then, home improvement stores such as Lowes and Home Depot did not exist. There was a local chain "Rickles" which was a HI store. However, none were reasonably close by. 
So K Mart's loss was it's gain. Smart people.


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## SteadyMercury (Jan 2, 2013)

Pogo said:


> But let me put the same sentiments an entirely different way: I avoid Mal-Wart because to go in there makes me feel that I'm cheating somebody I know, and enabling somebody I don't know to cheat people I do know.



What if a couple of your friends worked at Walmart? Even the people who aren't your friends that work at Walmart, when their paychecks are deposited where do you think they spend their money? Right in your community like everyone else?


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## Pogo (Jan 2, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


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I agree completely.  That's why it's interesting that that sentiment was met with "stick in his ass" and "fucking retard".  It would seem not all of our countrymen believe that.



Foxfyre said:


> But those who think they are somehow being noble or honorable or doing their duty by not shopping at Walmart are at worst hypocritical unless they hold everybody to the same standard.  But assuming that they really believe Walmart is evil, in my opinion it at best makes them a willing subject of the organized anti-Walmart propaganda campaign.



And why would I _not _hold others to the same standard?  This thread is about Mal-Wart, so that's what I addressed.  Had it been about, say, Starbucks, I could cut and paste most of the same reasoning to make similar points, but it's not.  Nobody said this applies to Mal-Wart and nobody else.  It's all about their behaviour.


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## Pogo (Jan 2, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


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Not at all, because my shopping will be done somewhere else and _they _will benefit.  Mal-Wart's employees are at the mercy of the corp anyway; no matter how much I might buy there it's not going to improve their lot as long as their employer takes the attitude toward them that it does.  OTOH, shopping at XYZ Store will help to keep them healthy, which helps their employees keep their jobs so _*they *_are not forced to work at Mal-Wart.

After this though I agree with the rest of your post and feel the same way...



JustTheFacts said:


> I live in a town of about 4500 people. Wal Mart is the main place to shop.I own an auto repair shop .  We were a little nervous when the new Super Center first opened 20 years ago that they would take some of our business.
> 
> Ends up, they took little, if any. Yes their tire prices are less than ours, just as an example. But my customers prefer doing business with me and spending a few extra dollars to be sure that they get the same service I would give my own mother or wife. Something they don't get at Wal Mart.
> 
> ...


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## Pogo (Jan 2, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > JustTheFacts said:
> ...




It's all he does.  Only Special Ed could take a thread about Wal-Mart and twist it into Stalin with a side of "liberals".  If you asked him what the weather is he'd find a way to make rain into a liberal plot.  "Baiamontean logic" is like "Sushi french fry".  Oxymoronic.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 2, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



Unless you tell me that you ask every proprietor you visit how much he/she pays his/her employees, what benefits they offer, where does he get the merchandise and guarantee that it isn't made in China or wherever, and you refuse to buy from anybody who doesn't meet the standards you apply to Walmart, then you are attacking Walmart for reasons other than the more 'noble' ones you seem to want us to believe.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 2, 2013)

Pogo said:


> It's all he does.  Only Special Ed could take a thread about Wal-Mart and twist it into Stalin with a side of "liberals".



1) so then why not explain why the liberals spied for Stalin a communist?

2) why not explain why they hate Walmart, a very very successful capitalist enterprise that is not very different from many many other very successful capitalist enterprises.

3) Why not explain why Obama, also communist (2 communist parents,voted to left of Bernie Sanders) used socialism rather than capitalism to fix the health care industry ?? 

Do the libturds really want to take over WalMart too! Where do the liberals like capitalism? Anywhere? Ever heard one defend it?? It seems clear they  are communists but are afraid to use the word!!


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 2, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > It's all he does.  Only Special Ed could take a thread about Wal-Mart and twist it into Stalin with a side of "liberals".
> ...



News ther obama nor stalin are posting in this thread ao obviously theybcant defend ornattack wal mart 

Get that stupid shit out of a thread that has nothing to do with partisan politics


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 2, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...




?????english please


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 2, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> JustTheFacts said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...




Sorry. New phone. Havent figured it out yet. I edited within this response


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## Foxfyre (Jan 2, 2013)

I really don't think all liberals are communists or that they all hate capitalism.  I know too many liberals running businesses or working for capitalists.  Some of these I am quite fond of.

But where liberals part company with me is in looking to government instead of private enterprise to get things done, meet needs, or address problems.  And they tend to be far more trusting of government than I think is healthy, and far more distrusting of their fellow man than I think is realistic.

The liberal can't seem to wrap his/her mind around a concept that we all benefit each other best when we look to our own interests and prosper ourselves using our own instincts, intuitiveness, intelligence, ability, talents, and work ethic.   The liberal too often honestly believes that if government does not force us to do what the liberal thinks we should, that it won't happen at all.

And this does fit in with a discussion on Walmart.  Should the government force Walmart to increase its wages and benefits?  Should the government force Walmart to unionize?  Should the government overtly or covertly demonize Walmart which seems to be the PC modus operendi these days?   Should the government dictate to Walmart what products that can or must carry?

All that is part of the mix, and if you scratch the surface deep enough, that is what this thread is ultimately all about.


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 2, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> I really don't think all liberals are communists or that they all hate capitalism.  I know too many liberals running businesses or working for capitalists.  Some of these I am quite fond of.
> 
> But where liberals part company with me is in looking to government instead of private enterprise to get things done, meet needs, or address problems.  And they tend to be far more trusting of government than I think is healthy, and far more distrusting of their fellow man than I think is realistic.
> 
> ...



In the other hand you have to admit there are a lot of dummies screaming that businesses would do the right thing without any government intervention. And that simply isnt true.


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## thereisnospoon (Jan 2, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > I really don't think all liberals are communists or that they all hate capitalism.  I know too many liberals running businesses or working for capitalists.  Some of these I am quite fond of.
> ...



The problem with you lefties is you cannot distinguish between regulation and intervention.


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 2, 2013)

thereisnospoon said:


> JustTheFacts said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



News flash genius I'm not a liberal and in fact recognizing there are idiots on both sides does not make one a iberal


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## Foxfyre (Jan 2, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > I really don't think all liberals are communists or that they all hate capitalism.  I know too many liberals running businesses or working for capitalists.  Some of these I am quite fond of.
> ...



And I think you are wrong.  I think most business people are honorable people who do the right thing because that is the way they see themselves and want to be seen.  And I also think the Founders allowed for sufficient regulation so that those few who would use their freedom to do economic or civil violence to another or trample on unalienable rights would be prohibited from doing so.  That is how our rights are secured--each has his/her rights protected and then is free to do whatever his/her heart desires.

I also think there are appropriate areas of regulation that should be implemented at the local and state level and that the federal government should stay out of entirely.


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 3, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> JustTheFacts said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



That's cute. Meanwhile here in the real world all we have to do is look back through our own history to see that the Axum that power corrupts is true. Look back and see how the worker was abused prior 2 legislation that pre vented it. look and see how the environment was ignored prior tooo legislation which made companies preserve it. Etc, etcl

Please don't tell me that you are another one of those fools who sticks strictly to  partisan dogma no matter the actual facts.

Oh I almost forgot as for your local and state legislation just a few problems with that.

1.  many of these companies which are affected by these types of legislation are in fact taking part in interstate Commerce which obviously falls under federal putview rather than state or local.

 2. Obviously these companies would find it much easier to buy local or even state regulation people then it would be to buy federal ones.

3. It's only make sense that we can't have hundreds of different entities making regulations and expect companies which do business in different areas of the country to be able to keep up with the different regulations in each area.

Seriously where are the grown ups who actually want to discuss things and make suggestions which actually makes sense. And oh yeah a constitutional


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## Foxfyre (Jan 3, 2013)

I'm going to ignore the fact that you almost entirely ignored the entire point I was making "JTF".   But answer me this.  Do you honestly believe that the average private businessman or corporate executives, including Walmart, are morer evil, corrupt and abuse power more than those in the U.S. Government do or would?


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## Pogo (Jan 3, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...




I have no need to tell you any such thing.  You have no basis for this leap, milord.  We haven't been discussing commercial enterprises in general; we've been discussing Mal-Wart, specifically.  That's it.  Therefore your extrapolation to other businesses nobody brought up is without foundation.  And your more recent exchange with another poster suggest you're seeking an agenda that may not be present.  But at least you haven't tried to bring Joe Stalin in, so you may still be within the secret circle of sanity.

Now I understand your empirical observations and mine of the footprint of Mal-Wart may differ.  That may reflect some regional variation, I dunno.  Your experience is in the southwest; mine in the south and east.  All I can speak for is what I know.  And this I have done.


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## Pogo (Jan 3, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> I really don't think all liberals are communists or that they all hate capitalism.  I know too many liberals running businesses or working for capitalists.  Some of these I am quite fond of.
> 
> But where liberals part company with me is in looking to government instead of private enterprise to get things done, meet needs, or address problems.  And they tend to be far more trusting of government than I think is healthy, and far more distrusting of their fellow man than I think is realistic.
> 
> ...




No, I'm afraid it isn't.  That is a wild extrapolation beyond the simple question "Do you shop at Wal-Mart?".  You're trying to bring in new story lines and a cast of thousands here.  There's actually a guy behind you, seeing a rhetorical door jimmied open, trying to bring Joe Stalin's cadaver in along with it.

Don't complicate it; sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.  Accept it.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 3, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > I really don't think all liberals are communists or that they all hate capitalism.  I know too many liberals running businesses or working for capitalists.  Some of these I am quite fond of.
> ...



The only one who seems fixated on Joe Stalin is you.  Why is that do you think?

And apparently all the folks who have posted here don't share your view of what Walmart is in the south and east.  (I have been in Walmarts in Arkansas, Louisiana, South Texas, Virginia (just across the Potomac from DC), West Virginia, and Washington DC, all of which were perfectly acceptable.  At the same time I have been in Walmarts elsewhere, including here, that I would not choose to shop in again because they were so poorly managed.

And in case you sort of missed the way the discussion has developed in this thread, it has not been limited to the simple question of whether one shops at Walmart.  It would have been a very short thread had it not provoked the discussion that I believe the OP intended.  The discussion has logically evolved into WHY we do or do not shop at Walmart alongside WHY we should or should not shop at Walmart with some very good rationale offered within that context.


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 3, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



The long and short of it seems to be that Wal Mart is very good at selling products, not so good at selling service.

That seems to be the business model they have chosen , and quite successfully I might add. Anyone griping about taking away from mom and pop just needs to understand that mom and pop just have to evolve and they will be fine.


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## Soggy in NOLA (Jan 3, 2013)

I do occasionaly... but not that often.  Mostly because they may have 20 check-out lines, maybe 3 are staffed... and there's the freak-show aspect of the place.


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 3, 2013)

Soggy in NOLA said:


> I do occasionaly... but not that often.  Mostly because they may have 20 check-out lines, maybe 3 are staffed... and there's the freak-show aspect of the place.



Isn't that the craziest? You go in and they have 3 registers open, the line is 10 deep at each one and there are half a dozen employees standing there shooting the shit.

My biggest gripes with wal mart though are

get rid of the damned motorized carts. fat people can walk, they just choose not to.

enforce the fucking 20 item limit. pisses me off when I'm in a hurry and the register designed for just such a case is clogged up some fuck who has an entire cart full of groceries and oh yeah a stack of coupons and is paying with change he found under his couch.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 3, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



Walmart is not a service industry.  They are in the business of offering people the products they want at an affordable price.  And they are savvy enough to provoke spontaneous or impulse sales along the way too and I have certainly gotten hooked into that more than once.  Mom and Pop stores savvy enough to offer what Walmart does not exist quite proficiently alongside Walmarts everywhere.  Those who do not have the advantage of size and therefore volume buying, however, and who attempt to compete with Walmart probably aren't going to survive.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 3, 2013)

Soggy in NOLA said:


> I do occasionaly... but not that often.  Mostly because they may have 20 check-out lines, maybe 3 are staffed... and there's the freak-show aspect of the place.



There is that, though I can honestly say that in many years of occasionally shopping at Walmart, I have never witnessed any of the 'freak show' of presumably Walmart shoppers that we get in our emails.  They are funny.  But sure aren't typical around here.  Our local Walmart shoppers look just like those who shop at Sears or Penneys or Lowes or Walgreens.   I don't know if all that 'freak show' hype is innocent humor, though, or whether it is an organized as part of the campaign to demonize Walmart and make people reluctant to shop there.

As for the long lines, that sometimes happens during busy periods--I try to organize my shopping expeditions both to the grocery store, Walmart, Lowes, etc. etc. etc. when long lines are much less likely--but I also know that if every register was staffed every minute of every day, the low prices I go to Walmart for would be higher.  Same with Costco, Sams Club, and other 'discount' outlets.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 3, 2013)

Do you shop at Walmart??

Of course, it's the biggest store chain in America because of the lowest  prices in America. Imagine if instead people choze to shop for only the highest priced stuff in America, as liberals seem to want. We'd be back in the stone age in less than a year.


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## SteadyMercury (Jan 3, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Imagine if instead people choze to shop for only the highest priced stuff in America, as liberals seem to want.


Dude I can't imagine the bizarre existence you must experience where every event and object can be analyzed through the lens of negativity at this nebulous political label "liberals."

Do you even hear yourself?


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 3, 2013)

SteadyMercury said:


> Dude I can't imagine the bizarre existence you must experience where every event and object can be analyzed through the lens of negativity at this nebulous political label "liberals."



nebulous??? Our liberals spied for Stalin, elected Obama despite 2 communist parents and voting to the left of Bernie Sanders, are anti-business and anti Walmart despite 24 million unemployed Americans.
Whats nebulous????????? 

Do you think it is coincidence that only libturds are against Walmart and for Marxobamaism?? Do you think it is only coincidence that when you get in the voting booth your choice is reduced to  liberal v conservative?? America is an idea about freedom from liberal government. It made us the greatest country in human history
and the only country in human history with that much freedom, but now liberals challenge that and our huge success at ever turn.

Our liberals spied for Stalin. What is nebulous about that, and about the cancer of liberalism that our Founders fought to save us from??




SteadyMercury said:


> Do you even hear yourself?



I think I do, but you don't because you lack the IQ to understand the context in which this discussion is taking place. Sorry


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## SteadyMercury (Jan 3, 2013)

Well you keep grinding your ax and wiping the spittle from your latest insane partisan rants off your monitor, the rest of us who can view the world with more than two colors will roll our eyes and give thanks we don't suffer the same pathetic affliction. I've only been here a few days and can already see why the others call your Special Ed.

Better check under your bed before turning, make sure no evil liberals are hiding.


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## Avatar4321 (Jan 3, 2013)

From time to time. Depends what I need


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## whitehall (Jan 3, 2013)

Amelia said:


> Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> 
> 
> Walmart's Internal Compensation Documents Reveal Systematic Limit On Advancement



Of course people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there. Left wingers are world class hypocrites.


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## LogikAndReazon (Jan 3, 2013)

walmart has liberal peons all conflicted. collectivist farms must be the other option. lol


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## thereisnospoon (Jan 3, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> > JustTheFacts said:
> ...



Right. You side with the libs, therefore you ARE a lib.


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## Pogo (Jan 3, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



And that's exactly what I did.  You just don't seem to want to accept my reasoning.  You seem bent on proving it "wrong".  A point of view can't be "right" or "wrong".  Just accept it.  I'm not trying to change your mind; why are you trying to change mine?  You seem to jump on anyone who doesn't bow down and worship Mal-Wart... why is that?  Are you with Mal-Wart corporate?  Don't people have the choice to choose against it?

As far as Joe Stalin -- try reading the thread. He was introduced by Special Ed -- here.  It's nothing more than an example of how far some will stretch the topic just to get their rhetorical orgasm in even if it's utterly unrelated.  In with Joe came the still-unexplained idea of "banning" Wal-Mart, which is another strawman.  This is the kind of thing that blows in the door when you try to stretch a simple analysis of one business' bad ethics into a greater diatribe on political philosophies: you let the crazies in.


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## Koios (Jan 3, 2013)

LogikAndReazon said:


> walmart has liberal peons all conflicted. collectivist farms must be the other option. lol



Whole Foods is a nice alternative. Helluva meat department; prime meats, dry-aged.  Not too shabby.


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## Pogo (Jan 3, 2013)

Koios said:


> LogikAndReazon said:
> 
> 
> > walmart has liberal peons all conflicted. collectivist farms must be the other option. lol
> ...




I've grown real tired of Ho Foods and their greedy attitude.  Quality stuff yes, but at what price?

-- which of course reminds me of a video...
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UFc1pr2yUU]Whole Foods Parking Lot - Music Video [HD] - YouTube[/ame]


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## Koios (Jan 4, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > LogikAndReazon said:
> ...



Not sure. But then what price eating shitty steaks?


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## percysunshine (Jan 4, 2013)

Rich people shop at Walmart, but they are compelled to wear disguises...


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## Foxfyre (Jan 4, 2013)

percysunshine said:


> Rich people shop at Walmart, but they are compelled to wear disguises...



Hmmm.  Maybe THEY are those Walmart shoppers that we get pictures of in our email?


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## Koios (Jan 4, 2013)

percysunshine said:


> Rich people shop at Walmart, but they are compelled to wear disguises...



Or have poor tastes in food, not uncommon among folks, at every income level. 

But for decent meats, fish, produce, not to mention specialty cured meats from Parma, the Basque Region, etc, Whole Foods is okay, but the better and pricier Metropolitan Market is the only way to shop, if you give a fuck about the shit you're putting in your mouth.


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## percysunshine (Jan 4, 2013)

Rich people love bargains. How did they get rich in the first place?


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## Pogo (Jan 4, 2013)

Koios said:


> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> > Rich people shop at Walmart, but they are compelled to wear disguises...
> ...




Ewww.  Speak for yourself.


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## Koios (Jan 4, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > percysunshine said:
> ...



I was.  Noodle on that.  It'll come to you.


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## Dragonlady (Jan 4, 2013)

thereisnospoon said:


> Right. You side with the libs, therefore you ARE a lib.



So what you're saying is that if a conservative does not follow along with sheep-like obedience with what the rest of you are saying, you will drive them out, he can't be in your club.

It's that what you say Democrats do, and that Democrats are incapable of thinking for themselves, yet here is a poster thinking for himself and you're saying that conservatives are not allowed to do that.


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## Dragonlady (Jan 4, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> The liberal can't seem to wrap his/her mind around a concept that we all benefit each other best when we look to our own interests and prosper ourselves using our own instincts, intuitiveness, intelligence, ability, talents, and work ethic.   The liberal too often honestly believes that if government does not force us to do what the liberal thinks we should, that it won't happen at all.
> 
> And this does fit in with a discussion on Walmart.  Should the government force Walmart to increase its wages and benefits?  Should the government force Walmart to unionize?  Should the government overtly or covertly demonize Walmart which seems to be the PC modus operendi these days?   Should the government dictate to Walmart what products that can or must carry?



For me is "Should taxpayers continue to provide and average of $420,000 in food stamps and Medicaid benefits to the employees at every Walmart in the US?" and my answer would be "No".  If Walmart is making record profits, why can't their employees be paid a living wage?  Why should taxpayers continue to subsidize these profits?

I would have no problem with people being left to their own devices to do the right thing, if all companies and employers treated their employees fairly and paid a living wage, but we all know that doesn't happen.  That's why we have minimum wage laws, and laws against child exploitation, because people aren't always decent or honourable.


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## AsheedMidrarwz (Jan 4, 2013)

I love Wal*Mart.  I can hop out of bed in my jammies and go shopping and not feel all weird about it.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 4, 2013)

Dragonlady said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > The liberal can't seem to wrap his/her mind around a concept that we all benefit each other best when we look to our own interests and prosper ourselves using our own instincts, intuitiveness, intelligence, ability, talents, and work ethic.   The liberal too often honestly believes that if government does not force us to do what the liberal thinks we should, that it won't happen at all.
> ...



Ah yes.  Much better to force Walmart to pay a 'living wage"--how much is that by the way?--and therefore eliminate most of those Walmart jobs and then we can pay ALL their expenses on perpetual unemployment or welfare.  Yeah, that's a much better solution.

But first show me evidence that those working for Walmart are costing $420,000 in benefits at every Walmart in the nation.  Hyperbole much?

Walmart pays what Walmart has to pay to entice people to work for them.  The average associate at Walmart earns roughly $20k working less than 40 hours per week.  Those working full time are making at least a bit above the official poverty line.  And nobody forces anybody to work at Walmart.

I know quite a few folks who have worked for Walmart and two who are working there now.  Two of these were my sister and brother in law, both who have masters degrees plus, but applied at Walmart on a lark as a part time retirement vocation after they retired as educators.  They had a ball and though they didn't stick with it for long and were still speaking of the experience fondly years later.

The two who are working for Walmart now both have had opportunities for better paying jobs but decided to stay with Walmart for the pleasant working environment and flexibility of schedules.

Walmart pays slightly less than the average for retail jobs, but only slightly less, and it provides stock options for its employees that most retail jobs don't offer.

Everything isn't always what it seems.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 4, 2013)

whitehall said:


> Of course people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there. Left wingers are world class hypocrites.



Leftists think they don't shop at Walmart, since they send the maid to do the shopping.....


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 4, 2013)

Koios said:


> Whole Foods is a nice alternative. Helluva meat department; prime meats, dry-aged.  Not too shabby.



Sprouts is a third the price for the same experience, and always locally grown.

Healthy, Natural & Organic Grocery Stores - Sprouts Farmers Market


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 4, 2013)

Koios said:


> Or have poor tastes in food, not uncommon among folks, at every income level.
> 
> But for decent meats, fish, produce, not to mention specialty cured meats from Parma, the Basque Region, etc, Whole Foods is okay, but the better and pricier Metropolitan Market is the only way to shop, if you give a fuck about the shit you're putting in your mouth.



Since Mumsy and Daddy pay your bills, no need for you to consider cost... Typical leftist, a spoiled child with a silver spoon up your ass.


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## Koios (Jan 4, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Whole Foods is a nice alternative. Helluva meat department; prime meats, dry-aged.  Not too shabby.
> ...



Then enjoy. (I'm not a sprout guy) 

Meanwhile, bone-in rib steak, dry-aged, $35 / lb @ WF, and WORTH EVERY FUCKING PENNY.


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## Koios (Jan 4, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Or have poor tastes in food, not uncommon among folks, at every income level.
> ...



I do, in fact, consider the cost.  Take a coupla nice steaks from WF, circa $70.  Then compare the taste of them to anything served at Ruth's Chris, Morton's, El Gaucho, The Metropolitan, where dinner for two frequently goes north of $200. Way better, and about $130 less for a great steak dinner.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 4, 2013)

Koios said:


> I do, in fact, consider the cost.



Right, that's why "$35 a pound" is fine with you....

ROFL



> Take a coupla nice steaks from WF, circa $70.  Then compare the taste of them to anything served at Ruth's Chris, Morton's, El Gaucho, The Metropolitan, where dinner for two frequently goes north of $200. Way better, and about $130 less for a great steak dinner.



I'd bet a dinner at ANY of those that I could cook a steak from Walmart that 10 people would rate as good as the WF steak.

You seek to substitute cost for value - because you have no grasp of value. In fact, I'd be thrilled to use Bobby Flay as the taster...


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## AsheedMidrarwz (Jan 4, 2013)

We are still eating on an angus rib roast on New Year's Day from Albertsons.  I heat it up and put a few drops of Perrin's Worcester on it.  When I prepared it, I pulled the fat pad back and stuffed it with onions, garlic, and some fresh tyme.


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## Koios (Jan 4, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > I do, in fact, consider the cost.
> ...



You'd lose the bet, based on three very, very critical aspects of what makes meat (beef) better tasting, with superior mouth-feel / tenderness: grass-fed; marbling that rates meat "Prime" (way better than "Choice"); dry-aging, which increases flavor and tenderness to a very great degree.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 4, 2013)

AsheedMidrarwz said:


> We are still eating on an angus rib roast on New Year's Day from Albertsons.  I heat it up and put a few drops of Perrin's Worcester on it.  When I prepared it, I pulled the fat pad back and stuffed it with onions, garlic, and some fresh tyme.



Sounds good.

Albertsons  doesn't carry prime beef, but Walmart and Sams Club do. There is a significant jump from "Choice" to "Prime," but once in the prime class, it's all snob appeal from there.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 4, 2013)

Koios said:


> You'd lose the bet, based on three very, very critical aspects of what makes meat (beef) better tasting, with superior mouth-feel / tenderness: grass-fed; marbling that rates meat "Prime" (way better than "Choice"); dry-aging, which increases flavor and tenderness to a very great degree.



I brought up Bobby Flay to see if you would "get it," which you didn't. Flay did the campaign for Walmarts Prime beef, with ads substituting the Walmart beef at Flemings and diners raving about it.

I would absolutely not lose the bet in a blind taste test. Walmart carries prime beef, it's expensive, but top shelf.

Prime Steakhouse Meat Now Available At Retail Markets In Dallas | SideDish


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## Koios (Jan 4, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > You'd lose the bet, based on three very, very critical aspects of what makes meat (beef) better tasting, with superior mouth-feel / tenderness: grass-fed; marbling that rates meat "Prime" (way better than "Choice"); dry-aging, which increases flavor and tenderness to a very great degree.
> ...



I'm familiar with Flay, who relies too heavily on trendiness (fusions du jour).  The right ingredients, need little help, or over-reaching for popular / novel trends in layering textures and flavors.  But he has a face for TV and the right amount of spunk.  So he'll get more TV time than our local, and more portly, Tom Douglas, a true master who can cook circles around Flay.  If in Seattle, you must try the Dalia Lounge.  You'll be transported.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 4, 2013)

Koios said:


> I'm familiar with Flay, who relies too heavily on trendiness (fusions du jour).  The right ingredients, need little help, or over-reaching for popular / novel trends in layering textures and flavors.  But he has a face for TV and the right amount of spunk.  So he'll get more TV time than our local, and more portly, Tom Douglas, a true master who can cook circles around Flay.  If in Seattle, you must try the Dalia Lounge.  You'll be transported.



I'm actually in the Los Angeles area (Behind the Orange Curtain, i.e. in Orange County.)  We have some truly excellent steak houses; "The Summit House," in Fullerton, "Sycamore Inn" in Upland, and the venerable "Dal Rae." About Us - The Dal Rae


----------



## Koios (Jan 4, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > I'm familiar with Flay, who relies too heavily on trendiness (fusions du jour).  The right ingredients, need little help, or over-reaching for popular / novel trends in layering textures and flavors.  But he has a face for TV and the right amount of spunk.  So he'll get more TV time than our local, and more portly, Tom Douglas, a true master who can cook circles around Flay.  If in Seattle, you must try the Dalia Lounge.  You'll be transported.
> ...



Lucky you.


----------



## Dragonlady (Jan 4, 2013)

I buy my meat, fish and produce at a farmer's market.  The meat is beautiful aged, top quality and it's half the price that I pay anywhere else.  My daughter shops at Whole Foods.  I think she's nuts to pay their prices.

My produce is fresh from the field.  It tastes better, it's cheaper, and it's fresher because it's locally grown in season.  I note that fresh salad greens I buy at the supermarket last two days tops before they get wilty.  Greens I buy at the market are good for a week.


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## Samson (Jan 4, 2013)

Dragonlady said:


> I buy my meat, fish and produce at a farmer's market.  The meat is beautiful aged, top quality and it's half the price that I pay anywhere else.



Two words:

"Road Kill."

Meat prices do not vary 50% from one place to "anywhere else" unless they're scraping it off the pavement.


----------



## Dragonlady (Jan 4, 2013)

Samson said:


> Meat prices do not vary 50% from one place to "anywhere else" unless they're scraping it off the pavement.



The local farmer's market prices are so cheap because the vendors pay very little rent.  Supermarkets near the Market have complained bitterly about the low rents paid by market vendors and that they cannot compete with their prices.

The Market is located in a very expensive area of town so stores paying fairmarket rents have a big overhead cost that the Market vendors don't.  That's why food is cheap there.


----------



## Koios (Jan 4, 2013)

Dragonlady said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Meat prices do not vary 50% from one place to "anywhere else" unless they're scraping it off the pavement.
> ...



No true; as percentage of sales, booth rental at farmer's markets far exceed retail space leases by larger grocery chains.

The appeal, and why most things are sold at *a premium price and not lower prices*, is the sense among buyers that the goods being sold are more pure / fresh / local, when in fact, many vendors merely source produce from the same distributors the stores do.


----------



## SteadyMercury (Jan 4, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Whole Foods is a nice alternative. Helluva meat department; prime meats, dry-aged.  Not too shabby.
> ...



Indeed. Sprouts is great, especially for fresh fruits/veggies/meat.


----------



## SteadyMercury (Jan 4, 2013)

Samson said:


> Two words:
> 
> "Road Kill."
> 
> Meat prices do not vary 50% from one place to "anywhere else" unless they're scraping it off the pavement.


Ahh so the farmers market chain has an army of employees scouring the roadsides for dead lamb, fish, beef, etc.

Sounds cost effective.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 4, 2013)

Koios said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...



We buy at Farmers Market because their produce is usually considerably cheaper than what we can get at Albertsons or Smiths.  And the reason is that the overhead at the Farmers Market is so much less than the super market that the super market generally can't beat their prices.  But unless we are buying a lot of produce, we don't make the extra trip to the Farmers Market.  And we check the prices in the grocery flyers before we head out because often the supermarket will have a loss leader that is cheaper than the Farmers Market.

The same criteria applies to Walmart.  We don't drive all the way to Walmart for a few grocery items even though we could save a few cents if we did.  It's just not worth the time and trouble.   But if we are already in Walmart for something else, we will pick up the bread or milk or eggs or whatever that we know we need.


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## Koios (Jan 4, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...



Not true in this market (Seattle) since I've helped some friends (brand development / Web presence) who do the art-fair/farmer's-market circuit, and thus know the cost dynamic.  The good ones, in the upscale areas that have folks who flock to them, charge a decent price for the dirt under the pop-up canopies, for only 2 days of use.  It's a major cost component, relative to sales, which exceeds, greatly, typical cost per sq ft in retail, for a month, prorated to two days.

Maybe where you live is different.


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## Dragonlady (Jan 4, 2013)

Koios said:


> No true; as percentage of sales, booth rental at farmer's markets far exceed retail space leases by larger grocery chains..



Perhaps where you live this may be true, but my Market barely charges the vendors any rent at all.  It's been a source of contraversy in our city.  Fair market rents in the Market District are VERY high.  Just the land the Market sits on is worth millions and it's in a prime location.

Produce in big chain supermarkets is purchased at the Food Terminal and then shipped to the supermarket warehouse for packaging and processing, then shipped to stores, adding additional days between when the produce is harvested and when it arrives at the store's produce counters.

Vendors at the Market buy at the Food Terminal, load up their truck and then the produce is on the shelf within an hour.


----------



## Koios (Jan 4, 2013)

Dragonlady said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > No true; as percentage of sales, booth rental at farmer's markets far exceed retail space leases by larger grocery chains..
> ...



Sorry to hear it.  Here in uber-Dem Seattle, we're not keen on allowing competitive disadvantages in the market, if public lands (parks) mostly are involved. 

BTW, one reason produce is a popular item at fairs, not to mention your local grocer, is margin.  They cut a fat hog on produce, which is the most profitable departments in grocery, too.  It's a high margin item.


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## Koios (Jan 4, 2013)

Dragonlady said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > No true; as percentage of sales, booth rental at farmer's markets far exceed retail space leases by larger grocery chains..
> ...



Look behind the tents, at the logos on the waxy boxes.  Then head out behind Albertson's and see what boxes accumlate there. (tip: you'll see some parity.)


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## Dragonlady (Jan 4, 2013)

Koios said:


> Sorry to hear it.  Here in uber-Dem Seattle, we're not keen on allowing competitive disadvantages in the market, if public lands (parks) mostly are involved.
> 
> BTW, one reason produce is a popular item at fairs, not to mention your local grocer, is margin.  They cut a fat hog on produce, which is the most profitable departments in grocery, too.  It's a high margin item.



Our Market was recently name by National Geographic as the best Market in the World.  There are big signs all over promoting it.  The Market is a huge tourist draw, and busloads of people come there every weekend, so it brings a lot of dollars into the city.

I avoid going there on Saturday if at all possible.  You cannot move through the aisles for people and there are line-ups at every stall.  When I was working in the financial district, I could walk to the Market at lunchtime and do my shopping.  Now I go in the middle of the week when there are no crowds.  There are a lot of restaurant stalls and deli stalls where you can get ready made foods, all made from the same fresh foods you can buy, and like the uncooked stuff which is available, its very cheap.


----------



## Koios (Jan 4, 2013)

Dragonlady said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry to hear it.  Here in uber-Dem Seattle, we're not keen on allowing competitive disadvantages in the market, if public lands (parks) mostly are involved.
> ...



Ours is world famous, known by nearly all, whether they read NG or not.

Pike Place Market - Home

Neener x 3


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## AsheedMidrarwz (Jan 4, 2013)

Koios said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Koios said:
> ...



I love Pike Place Market when we visit Seattle.  Definitely a top tourist attraction.


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## Koios (Jan 4, 2013)

AsheedMidrarwz said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...



No bullets in the guns.  Since, as we know, GUNS DO NOT KILL PEOPLE ... often* (slugs do.)

*Okay; maybe when pistol-whipped to death


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 4, 2013)

I don't shop at any big box stores like Walmart,Home Depot, Bed Bath&Beyond, Office Max, Best Buy, Amazon, and Ford . In fact, I don't like any of the nationwide companies. The prices are just to damn low and they replaced too many Mom and Pops!! Capitalism is actually driving us backward rather than forward.


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## wavingrl (Jan 4, 2013)

AsheedMidrarwz said:


> Koios said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...



This sounds good. There are smaller markets in Atlanta--open on weekends and in the summer.  The way the city is spread out I don't think it would be feasible to try something like this in Atlanta. Once again there is interest in redeveloping Underground Atlanta--but even if they created a market few would want to drive downtown to shop. 

Not far from me are some Asian/Hispanic grocery stores. They had lemons for $.10/each this summer--prices elsewhere were 2-3X that. fwiw.


----------



## thanatos144 (Jan 5, 2013)

It still amazes me how ignorant the progressive fascists are about Wal-Mart.....Again more proof of them trying to tell the rest of us where to shop or what to do.....Yet they still deny being fascists.


----------



## Pogo (Jan 5, 2013)

thanatos144 said:


> It still amazes me how ignorant the progressive fascists are about Wal-Mart.....Again more proof of them trying to tell the rest of us where to shop or what to do.....Yet they still deny being fascists.





Somehow I don't think 'fascism' is defined as telling people where they can shop.  I don't regard Foxfyre, or anyone else, as a "fascist" simply because they insist I should shop at Mal-Wart.  I suspect he works for Sam, that's all.  You don't have to be a "fascist" to be wrong.

Besides, if you toss "fascism" around to every little thing you don't like, what are you going to use for actual fascism?


----------



## Foxfyre (Jan 5, 2013)

Pogo said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > It still amazes me how ignorant the progressive fascists are about Wal-Mart.....Again more proof of them trying to tell the rest of us where to shop or what to do.....Yet they still deny being fascists.
> ...



However Facists do misrepresent the enemy, put words in their mouths, and falsely accuse them, because Facism requires all resistance to Fascism to be eliminated.

For instance Foxfyre, and I don't believe anybody else, has even insinuated, much less insisted that anybody shop anywhere, much less Walmart.


----------



## Pogo (Jan 5, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > thanatos144 said:
> ...



No I don't think you need to be a "fascist" to misrepresent people.  That's not even a political act in and of itself.  You don't need a political position to misrepresent people, and Fascists certainly don't have a monopoly on misrepresentation.

For example just because that guy who brought up "banning" Mal-Wart also brought up a Communist, that doesn't make him a 'fascist' by contrast.  It just makes him a liar.  Or to be nice, a strawman-builder.  He's wrong in doing that, but that doesn't by itself make him a "fascist".

We lose the meaning of "fascism" when we start applying it to every little thing willy-nilly.  That's not a good idea, as we may need that word for what it really means.  Sooner than we think.


----------



## Foxfyre (Jan 5, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



I did not apply a definition of fascism.   Nor did I accuse anybody of being a facist.   I only pointed out that accusing those of what they are not 'guilty' is a trademark component of fascism.  I didn't suggest that fascists are the only ones who would do that.   I haven't introduced facism or Stalin or any of the other imagery or insinuations into this discussion.  Other people have.

But I do take exception when you suggest I have insisted that anybody do anything, shop anywhere, or shop at Walmart in this discussion.  And it would be a tactic of the fascist to mischaracterize their opponent and plant suggestions that they were evil or dangerous or inappropriate in some way in order to turn public opinion against them.

Was that your intent when you mischaracterized my posts in this thread?  I don't know.  But you did mischaracterize what I have posted.

Is that the intent of whomever for whatever reason to bring down Walmart with an organized campaign to demonize and discredit that corporation?  I don't know.  But there certainly does appear to be such a campaign.


----------



## Samson (Jan 5, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Is that the intent of whomever for whatever reason to bring down Walmart with an organized campaign to demonize and discredit that corporation?  I don't know.  But there certainly does appear to be such a campaign.





Wal-mart is a very successful capitalist enterprise.


Therefore, it must be demonized by all unsuccessful enterprises (capitalist and, naturally socialist)


----------



## Pogo (Jan 5, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Yes I _know _you didn't bring it up.  Thanatos144 did.  I assumed he was referring to you.  That's why I quoted him originally.  And it was also not you who brought up Stalin and "banning" Mal-Wart; it was Special Ed.  None of that equates to fascism IMHO.

The "tactic to mischaracterize one's opponent and plant suggestions that they were evil or dangerous or inappropriate in some way in order to turn public opinion against them" has nothing to do specifically with fascism.  The same tactic has certainly been used by communists, capitalists, anarchists and bigamists.  It's clearly been used in most political campaigns of recent memory, and for that matter in history.  It's used in advertising.  It's still got nothing to do with "fascism".

People throw around "fascism" with no clue what the term means.  I don't think that's good for the language, let alone the debate.

Far as I'm concerned the onus is on Thanatos144 to explain what the hell he was talking about.  That's why I took issue with him in the first place.

(edit: I just looked at Thanatos' signature.  It says, "If you are Pro Union you support communism."  What's the reverse of that statement?  File under Department of Peg-the-hypocrisy-meter 
(/offtopic)


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Jan 5, 2013)

Pogo said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > It still amazes me how ignorant the progressive fascists are about Wal-Mart.....Again more proof of them trying to tell the rest of us where to shop or what to do.....Yet they still deny being fascists.
> ...



When did Foxfyre or anyone else insist that you "should" shop at WalMart?  When did anyone even give the impression that they give that much of a shit WHERE you shop?  Arguing that they think your reasons for not shopping there are silly isn't the same as caring one way or another where you spend your money.  Get over yourself a little.

Furthermore, if you think fascism "isn't defined as telling people where they can shop", you know nothing about fascism.  Whatever else you might think fascism is, or was, it is an economic system in the same pantheon as capitalism, communism, and socialism.

Unlike socialism, which seeks direct state control of the means of production, fascism seeks it indirectly, by allowing the state to control nominally independent and private owners, by requiring those owners to operate their property "in the national interest".  (Is any of this sounding vaguely familiar to anyone else?)  Socialism abolishes market relations outright; fascism allows the pretense of market relations, while in reality centrally planning the economy and its activities.  Fascism controls the monetary system and sets all prices and wages politically. State ministries, rather than consumers, determine what is produced and under what conditions.

Which means that yes, fascism DOES essentially end up telling you where and how you can shop.  

Now perhaps you can tell me what YOU thought fascism is.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 5, 2013)

Pogo said:


> "If you are Pro Union you support communism."



that's largely speaking true. Once you believe you have the right to get ahead in life with government violence against your fellow man
(rather than through peaceful voluntary Republican capitalist relationships) you are in effect a communist.


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## Pogo (Jan 5, 2013)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > thanatos144 said:
> ...



Go read the thread a little.  Start at post 875 (eight hundred and seventy-five posts on _this_?) where I had already been attacked as "stick in his asshole", "fucking retard" and "to [sic] fucking stupid" for the crime of daring to answer the Mal-Wart question in the negative.  The latter two by the same clown who brought up "fascism" just now.  Foxfyre wasn't part of that meltdown, though from that point he continued to lobby that I should be going to Mal-Wart, but I didn't think that made him a 'fascist'.  But if you insist, OK then they're all fascists.  And in at least one case you may be right considering the next paragraph.

To spell it out for Special Ed: the opposite side of the coin "If you are Pro Union you support communism" would be "if you are anti-union you support fascism" (which is true -- Hitler for example banned trade unions and had all their leaders arrested way back in 1933; it was one of his first steps).  Yet this is the signature of the same guy who wants to call other people 'fascists'.  And the same guy who jumped on me as a "fucking retard" for daring not to bow before the Supreme Mal-Wart God.  And that is why he pegs the hypocrisy meter.





.
I notice he hasn't been back to defend it.  What a surprise.


----------



## Dragonlady (Jan 5, 2013)

It's interesting that so many here equate buying the freshest, highest quality foods with spoiled, elitist behavious.  I equate it with having parents who raised 6 children most of whom were born before the Great Depression.  My parents grew nearly everything we ate in our backyard.  We had a large kitchen garden, pear, apple and cherry trees, and a chicken coup.  My mother spent all summer canning and preserving everything they grew.  

After my father died, I was the only kid still at home, and it was my job to do the gardening as Mom could no longer do it and once again, we could not have eaten well if we hadn't grown our own produce in the summer.  Although when my Dad died, Mom had a freezer, which made preserving the vegetables even easier.

Fresh produce is the key to a healthy diet.  Produce starts losing nutrients the moment it is harvested.  Heavily processed foods have most of their nutrients cooked out of them, and the difference in the flavour between fresh and even a couple of days old, is astounding.  Anyone who grew up eating nothing but fresh picked fruits and vegetables never forgets it.

When my older daughter met her husband, he had a typical North American diet, heavy on the pre-prepared supermarket foods and fast food restaurants.  He had a range of health problems which required expensive medications, and he could stand to lose a few pounds.  Seven years later, my son-in-law is 20 pounds lighter, all of his gastro-intestinal problems are gone, and he is no longer taking any medications.

My youngest daughter's boyfriend moved in with us when his parents moved out of the city.  He had a "sensitive stomach" and frequently suffered from an upset stomach, especially if he ate spicy food.  Our kitchen motto is "from fresh and from scratch" as much as possible.  Snack foods are fresh fruit - apples, grapes, bananas, oranges.  After a year, he no longer has a sensitive stomach, enjoys spicy foods and hasn't even purchased stomach medications since his original supply ran out.

My husband and recently spent the weekend at our retirement property, and I told him where we'll put our kitchen garden when we move there permanently.  It's one way we can cut our food costs when we're both retired.  Plus it's good exercise and it's fun.  There is something about getting your hands into the soil that is nourishing to the soul.  I cannot explain why.

Those of us who insist on high quality food, do so for our health, not just our taste buds.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 5, 2013)

Pogo said:


> "If you are Pro Union you support communism"



this is true in fact the unions were communist in the Depression. Good for you!!






Pogo said:


> "if you are anti-union you support fascism"



or you support Republican capitalism which involves very very limited governemnt as opposed to communism or fascism  both of which  involve very very unlimited government. See why we say a liberal will be slow, so very very slow. HItler and Musollini were allies. See what happens when you think???




Pogo said:


> .  And the same guy who jumped on me as a "fucking retard" for daring not to bow before the Supreme Mal-Wart God.  And that is why he pegs the hypocrisy meter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



defend what exactly??????????????


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## Pogo (Jan 5, 2013)

Dragonlady said:


> It's interesting that so many here equate buying the freshest, highest quality foods with spoiled, elitist behavious.  I equate it with having parents who raised 6 children most of whom were born before the Great Depression.  My parents grew nearly everything we ate in our backyard.  We had a large kitchen garden, pear, apple and cherry trees, and a chicken coup.  My mother spent all summer canning and preserving everything they grew.
> 
> After my father died, I was the only kid still at home, and it was my job to do the gardening as Mom could no longer do it and once again, we could not have eaten well if we hadn't grown our own produce in the summer.  Although when my Dad died, Mom had a freezer, which made preserving the vegetables even easier.
> 
> ...



That's a beautiful picture 

I do that too, to the extent I can.  There's nothing like pulling a carrot you grew out of the ground, cleaning it off and biting in, remembering "ah, _that_'s what carrots used to taste like".   One more reason to not go you-know-where for one's carrots.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 5, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > It's interesting that so many here equate buying the freshest, highest quality foods with spoiled, elitist behavious.  I equate it with having parents who raised 6 children most of whom were born before the Great Depression.  My parents grew nearly everything we ate in our backyard.  We had a large kitchen garden, pear, apple and cherry trees, and a chicken coup.  My mother spent all summer canning and preserving everything they grew.
> ...



I guess the libturd bigot is superior to those who go there??


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## LA RAM FAN (Jan 5, 2013)

No american should shop at Walmart.They are part of the Global elite.Kmart is american.shop there.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 5, 2013)

9/11 inside job said:


> No american should shop at Walmart.They are part of the Global elite.Kmart is american.shop there.



In fact we should not shop and any big stores!! It's down right anti-American!!


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## LittleNipper (Jan 5, 2013)

Walmart get exactly what it pays for.


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## Dragonlady (Jan 5, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> I guess the libturd bigot is superior to those who go there??



Once again, when the facts are irrefutable, you attack the poster.  

Every liberal and union supporter is NOT a communist.   Only a idiot would believe that.

Just because communists were union organziers in the 1930's, doesn't mean that the unions are controlled by communist organizers today.  Hell the communism as a global movement died when the Iron Curtain fell.  That was nearly 30 years ago.

All of my life I have steadfastly avoided working for union companies because raises and promotions aren't made on merit, but rather seniority.  I started my legal career clerking for a lawyer working out of a small office in Forest Hill, and ended it in one of Bay's Street's Seven Sisters doing some of the largest transactions in the world for Forbes 100 corporations.

Yes, Edward, I sold my hippy soul to that devil, capitalism.  I admit that I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE working with the richest most powerful people in the world.  Our firm was so large, that after we outgrew the grand ballroom of the Four Seasons Hotel, our firm ended up renting the Royal Ontario Museum for our annual Holiday Party.  It was the only place big enough.  

I truly regret that I could not join the neighbourhood group which fought against the purchase of the former Toronto Film Studios lands three blocks from my house, by a consortion of companies which was actively courting Walmart as it's lead tennant.  I had done a lot of work on this file, including negotiations with City regarding re-zoning requirements, on behalf of one of the members of the consortium.  I had done a lot of work on the negotiations for this property BEFORE they announced their intention to put a Walmart in that location.  To even talk to that group, knowing what I knew about that project, would have violated the conflict of interest provisions of the contract I signed when I joined the firm.  To speak of it outside the office, knowing what I knew about that deal would violate client/solicitor confidentiality.  

That doesn't mean that I didn't smile from ear to ear when the neighbourhood group defeated the re-zoning application which was a condition of the sale.  Furthermore, no shopping plaza can ever be built on those land.  The promise that high-paying movie studio jobs would not be replaced with minimum wage McJobs made to the neighbourhood when the studio closed was kept.  The sound stages are among the most active in the City.

It's not the first time I have done legal work on behalf of clients I would best described as "odius" at best.  And not even the worst example.  It's part of the reason why I resisted working on Bay Street for so long.  But a desire to make more money than I ever had in my life, and not to have to deal with nickle diming clients who expect to pay $100 an hour for $500 an hour work, was also a lure.  I was offered two jobs - one doing residential real estate a medium size law firm, and the other doing multi-million dollar real estate working on deals which affect the economy of nations.  The money wasn't far apart, but the nature of the practice certainy was and the surroundings were very different.  

Big money, oppulent perks (health club membership, billable hours bonuses, premium health insurance (coverages which upgrade the government funded care with coverages which pay for eye glasses, hearing aids, massage therapy, etc. semi-private hospital rooms - things OHIP doesn't pay for), what Americans refer to as a "Cadillac plan", annual retreat for partners in the middle of winter, someplace sunny and warm - Bahamas, Arizona, etc.  

Yup.  I'm a communist alright.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Jan 5, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



Oh, my God, put some aloe on your fucking chapped ass and get a grip, would you?  Every single thing they said that you have your panties in a ruffle about was by way of arguing that your reasons for not choosing to shop at WalMart are stupid, not trying to force you to shop there.  If you can't handle being told that you're wrong, shut the fuck up about your opinions.


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## thanatos144 (Jan 5, 2013)

Lets see progressive want to tell us how we

Eat

Sleep

Fuck

Drink

Exercise

dress

love

parent


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## Pogo (Jan 5, 2013)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Looks like being unable to handle being told you're wrong is what you just demonstrated in your little meltdown.  I didn't say they _succeeded _at getting me to shop at Mal-Wart, speaking of reading comprehension.  That's never going to happen.  I just noted what their goals were.  As I noted elsewhere, I never did the reverse to them.  So *who's* got a force-fantasy?
I like the meter hanging there above your words.  It fits.


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## Pogo (Jan 5, 2013)

thanatos144 said:


> Lets see progressive want to tell us how we
> 
> Eat
> 
> ...




I notice you left out:

Shop

Smoke

Post

Think

Vote

... reserving them for yourself?  Don't be greedy now.


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## thanatos144 (Jan 5, 2013)

Pogo said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > Lets see progressive want to tell us how we
> ...



I dont have enough time in the day to post all the things you progressives want to control about us......


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## Koios (Jan 5, 2013)

thanatos144 said:


> Lets see progressive want to tell us how we
> 
> Eat
> 
> ...



Gourmet 

On 600 thread count sheets

After she's gotten off 2 or 3 whopper orgasms

Martell Cordon Bleu 

During sex (get off you back) 

Well. Chicks dig it. 

Yourself. 

Don't (in your case)


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## thanatos144 (Jan 5, 2013)

Koios said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > Lets see progressive want to tell us how we
> ...


It bugs you that I point out your fascism doesn't it?


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## earlycuyler (Jan 5, 2013)

Amelia said:


> Just reading this at Huffpo and looking at the comments.  Made me wonder if people who disapprove of Walmart still shop there.
> 
> 
> Walmart's Internal Compensation Documents Reveal Systematic Limit On Advancement



They do. Very few of those who bash them shop some place else.


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## Dragonlady (Jan 5, 2013)

earlycuyler said:


> They do. Very few of those who bash them shop some place else.



Our local Zellers became a Walmart on November 1st.  I quit shopping there October 31st.  I can walk to Walmart - it's about 5 blocks from my house, and they have free parking.   Now I have to take a streetcar downtown to the Bay Store (they used to own Zeller's), or pay Eaton Centre parking rates (highest in the City) and put up with downtown traffic (street car is cheaper, faster, easier), and I am happy to do that rather than give my money to Walmart.

Most of the Zellers stores were sold to Target.  Had Target taken over our local Zellers, I'd still be shopping there.


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## Cecilie1200 (Jan 5, 2013)

Dragonlady said:


> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> > They do. Very few of those who bash them shop some place else.
> ...



Please don't interpret this as any sort of acual interest in where you shop or what you do, or, God forbid, some attempt to actually change your choices due to some sort of interest in what you do.  I'm just mildly curious.

Why is it that WalMart is so "evil" as to require you to go to stupid lengths on inconvenience in order to feel self-righteous and smug abou not "giving them my money", but Target is not?


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## thanatos144 (Jan 6, 2013)

Dragonlady said:


> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> > They do. Very few of those who bash them shop some place else.
> ...



So it is a union thing for you.....


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## Dragonlady (Jan 6, 2013)

Because Target pays living wages and doesn't ask its workers to depend on government subsidies.  Because Target isn't under investigation in numerous countries for unfair trade practices.  Because Target didn't declare it's dividends before December 31st in order for it's largest shareholders to avoid paying $180 million in taxes on dividends after January 1st.


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## thanatos144 (Jan 6, 2013)

Dragonlady said:


> Because Target pays living wages and doesn't ask its workers to depend on government subsidies.  Because Target isn't under investigation in numerous countries for unfair trade practices.  Because Target didn't declare it's dividends before December 31st in order for it's largest shareholders to avoid paying $180 million in taxes on dividends after January 1st.



So in other words it is cause you believe the propaganda about Wal-Mart....So it is just stupidity that makes you ignorantly go out of the way to avoid Wal-Mart like it has the clap.  Well you go right ahead and shop target that pays their employees around the same. I like Target but I wont avoid a better price at Wal-Mart so I can be a self righteous ignoramus.


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## Papawx3 (Jan 6, 2013)

Yes, I shop at Walmart.  But I think the bigger question should be "What do you buy at Walmart?"
There are things I buy at Walmart such as groceries, household goods, etc., but there are a number of things that I will never (again) buy there.  That includes hand tools, garden/yard equipment and clothing.


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## wavingrl (Jan 6, 2013)

Papawx3 said:


> Yes, I shop at Walmart.  But I think the bigger question should be "What do you buy at Walmart?"
> There are things I buy at Walmart such as groceries, household goods, etc., but there are a number of things that I will never (again) buy there.  That includes hand tools, garden/yard equipment and clothing.



I feel much the same. 

For me it really comes down to the location of the store. I live in a suburb of a large city and there are other options. 

My friend lives in a small town and the Walmart has clearly been a positive addition to that town. fwiw.


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## Pogo (Jan 6, 2013)

thanatos144 said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Because Target pays living wages and doesn't ask its workers to depend on government subsidies.  Because Target isn't under investigation in numerous countries for unfair trade practices.  Because Target didn't declare it's dividends before December 31st in order for it's largest shareholders to avoid paying $180 million in taxes on dividends after January 1st.
> ...




If at this point *^^* anyone's less than clear on who the control freaks are (or in the poster's prhaseology, "fascists"), then you're just drowning in denial.

I could say "shills" but this is well beyond.


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## Bleipriester (Jan 6, 2013)

No! I can´t.
When Walmart came to Germany, they told us grinning that they are going to overtake us with their price war which they would win due to their huge capital stock. Ten years later, in 2006, they sold their last chain stores in Germany


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## JimH52 (Jan 6, 2013)

Of couse we shop there.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 6, 2013)

But you know, reasonable people who don't feel compelled to make EVERYTHING into some kind of moral issue or political statement, can probably agree that the Walmart format is not going to be everybody's cup of tea.  That is why Targets and Kmarts and Sears and Penneys and other big chain stores are able to compete more or less competently against Walmart marketing strategies.   On the other hand many people DO like to shop at Walmart which is why it is the amazing success story that it is.

Defending Walmart's right to be Walmart is no more demanding or coercing anybody to shop there than is preferring a Ford product to a Chevy product a demand that everybody buy Fords.   I dislike tattoos and would not get one on a bet, but that doesn't suggest that I think nobody should ever get one or that I don't love a whole lot of people who have a whole lot of tattoos.  In a capitalistic society, variety really can be the spice of life and allows for all manner of personal preferences in most things.

I think those who are defending Walmart in this thread are doing so because they see the criticisms as unwarranted or unfair.  Or they see a more sinister agenda at work that would dismantle or take Walmart down for somebody else's purposes.  And in a free society the latter is not acceptable.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 6, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Or they see a more sinister agenda at work that would dismantle or take Walmart down for somebody else's purposes.  And in a free society the latter is not acceptable.



Yes indeed!! Where does it stop?. Certainly Home Depot would be next and then really any big business that ate up small businesses which all big businesses do.

Liberals take their positions not having the IQ to know how capitalism works.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 6, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Or they see a more sinister agenda at work that would dismantle or take Walmart down for somebody else's purposes.  And in a free society the latter is not acceptable.
> ...



But you see, I don't think all liberals don't understand how capitalism works.  I have liberal friends running successful businesses who seem to have a very good grasp of that.

And all big businesses don't eat up small businesses.  As has been cited in this thread numerous times now, the small town Walmart often keeps enough shoppers at home so that other businesses benefit.  When you have at least some economic base in your small community, the community can thrive.  But if most of the shoppers drive off to the nearest city to do most of their shopping, the small town will shrink and often simply dries up.  It is in Walmart's interest that the people have reason to stay home.  If enough people vacate the area, then the Walmart too will also close up shop and leave.

Small businesses who attempt to compete straight up with Walmart probably won't succeed.  The businessman who looks for and recognizes a need for a certain product or service at a price people are willing to pay will always succeed.

BUT. . . .what is at work is a different kind of agenda.  One that looks to force Walmart to conform to some kind of preconceived notion about justice, compassion, humanity etc. etc. etc.  This agenda seeks to convince us that Walmart is evil, hateful, and treats its employees badly, much moreso than any of its competition.

And it is that lie that several of us in this thread are opposing whether or not we personally would shop at Walmart.


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## Pogo (Jan 6, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> But you know, reasonable people who don't feel compelled to make EVERYTHING into some kind of moral issue or political statement, can probably agree that the Walmart format is not going to be everybody's cup of tea.  That is why Targets and Kmarts and Sears and Penneys and other big chain stores are able to compete more or less competently against Walmart marketing strategies.   On the other hand many people DO like to shop at Walmart which is why it is the amazing success story that it is.
> 
> Defending Walmart's right to be Walmart is no more demanding or coercing anybody to shop there than is preferring a Ford product to a Chevy product a demand that everybody buy Fords.   I dislike tattoos and would not get one on a bet, but that doesn't suggest that I think nobody should ever get one or that I don't love a whole lot of people who have a whole lot of tattoos.  In a capitalistic society, variety really can be the spice of life and allows for all manner of personal preferences in most things.
> 
> I think those who are defending Walmart in this thread are doing so because they see the criticisms as unwarranted or unfair.  Or they see a more sinister agenda at work that would dismantle or take Walmart down for somebody else's purposes.  And in a free society the latter is not acceptable.



So... some ethereal agenda that you assume is in the heads of other people is unacceptable, while "Joe Stalin" and putting words in their mouth about "banning" the store and "stick in his asshole", "fucking retard" "to [sic] fucking stupid", "stupidity that makes you ignorantly..." and "self righteous ignoramus", all of which is actually on the record--- amounts to a series of rational points?  

Thanks for clearing that up.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 6, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > But you know, reasonable people who don't feel compelled to make EVERYTHING into some kind of moral issue or political statement, can probably agree that the Walmart format is not going to be everybody's cup of tea.  That is why Targets and Kmarts and Sears and Penneys and other big chain stores are able to compete more or less competently against Walmart marketing strategies.   On the other hand many people DO like to shop at Walmart which is why it is the amazing success story that it is.
> ...



No dear.  I haven't made any comparisons to Joe Stalin on this thread and for somebody to use that for emphasis is no skin off my nose.  It doesn't apply to me and I can pretty much ignore excessive speech used presumably for emphasis.   We have to make allowances for the limited vocabulary of some too.

Using terms such as Nazi or Facism or Stalinism or other ridiculous analogies for either those who defend Walmart or those who attack it, is simply the only ammunition some have to make their argument.  I can be pretty tolerant about things like that given the educational and intellectual limitations of some.  And some otherwise very bright people are so used to using such terms that it becomes as natural to them as dropping the F bomb or terms such as turd-label or pick your uncomplimentary adjective of choice.

You don't like the way I started my last post?  Well there isn't anything I can do about that, and I know it is annoying to those who don't share my point of view--I have been accused of being self righteous, self aggrandizing, intellectually dishonest, self-proclaimed morally superior, etc. etc. etc. etc. purely because I refuse to engage in the mud slinging type of rhetoric common on message boards.  I accept that others like mud slinging methods of argument.  I simply don't.

And I also try hard not to accept the invitations for food fights that the personal insults generally try to evoke.  I accept that some really engage in that for sport.  It isn't sport for me so I try not to do it.

And I will defend my opening statement in that post because I honestly do believe many who defend or attack Walmart do so out of their political convictions or some kind of moral statement.  I honestly don't CARE what anybody's motivations are re that.  I DO care that the real skinny on the issue be presented so that those who WANT the truth have access to it.


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## Pogo (Jan 6, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Not at all, it's just the opposite-- I *do* like the way you started that post; it's the way you took it to a complete 180 that has me flummoxed.  You actually picked an imaginary agenda, one that you assumed and imagined into the heads of some "side", and used that to excuse away the "fascism" jazz, which is not at all imaginary.  Or to put it another way "we were asking for it".

Pfft.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 6, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



LOL.  Well we're probably speaking past each other because we seem to be communicating in different languages here.  

I thought I was being quite consistent in my point of view, because I do have one pretty well engraved in granite on this particular subject, but if I left another impression through poor communication skills, I apologize.

In a nutshell, I do believe those who demonize Walmart do so out of a preconceived political agenda that has been assigned to them and they have embraced, whether or not they fully understand it. . . . or. . . .

They hold some kind of specific moral opinion about the ethics and morality of Walmart.

And I have problems with opposition to Walmart on such grounds because I believe the opposition to be in error or dishonest.  I have done my best to explain why.  I have long abhored the practice of demonizing or hurting others purely because those others don't conform to a particular political or moral dictate.

I have no problem with anybody who chooses not to shop at Walmart for whatever reason.


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## Dragonlady (Jan 6, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> BUT. . . .what is at work is a different kind of agenda.  One that looks to force Walmart to conform to some kind of preconceived notion about justice, compassion, humanity etc. etc. etc.  This agenda seeks to convince us that Walmart is evil, hateful, and treats its employees badly, much moreso than any of its competition.
> 
> And it is that lie that several of us in this thread are opposing whether or not we personally would shop at Walmart.



The idea that Walmart is subsidizing its profits by encouraging its employees to obtain government assistance and deliberating keeping hours and pay low enough that employees qualify for Medicaid and food stamps is not "propaganda".  I don't think the government should be subsidzing salaries for the No. 2 company on the Fortune 500 list.

You want to cut "entitlements" well here is where you start.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 6, 2013)

Dragonlady said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > BUT. . . .what is at work is a different kind of agenda.  One that looks to force Walmart to conform to some kind of preconceived notion about justice, compassion, humanity etc. etc. etc.  This agenda seeks to convince us that Walmart is evil, hateful, and treats its employees badly, much moreso than any of its competition.
> ...



Do you know that for a fact?  Do you have any source to verify it that is not part of the propaganda machine?   Again I KNOW people who have worked for Walmart and I KNOW people who now work for Walmart and I haven't heard that kind of story from any one of them.  And if Walmart is so evil in that regard, why are the Mom and Pop stores or Target or Kmart who pay their entry level people just as little or less than Walmart less evil?

And you have government agencies running national ads encouraging people to sign up for food stamps and other federal assistance programs.  Are they also evil?   If the Walmart HR might let folks know where the freebies are, would that somehow be unethical or immoral or illegal?

It is NOT evil to point people to government programs.  If it is, then perhaps we should look to see if it is the government programs that are evil rather than the people who advise us that they exist?


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## Cecilie1200 (Jan 6, 2013)

Dragonlady said:


> Because Target pays living wages and doesn't ask its workers to depend on government subsidies.  Because Target isn't under investigation in numerous countries for unfair trade practices.  Because Target didn't declare it's dividends before December 31st in order for it's largest shareholders to avoid paying $180 million in taxes on dividends after January 1st.



Okay, again, please don't take this as any sort of actual interest in where you shop or an attempt to "force" you to shop somewhere as though you and what you do makes any frigging difference to anyone on Earth, because you don't.  This is just idle observation.

You're a fucking idiot, and I cannot imagine anyone being more gullible than you without having to be locked up for her own protection.

I have no idea where you got your information, but according to Payscale.com - just for example - Target and WalMart actually pay about the same for their regular rank-and-file employees. It's only when you get up into "eeeevil" management that Target salaries suddenly become significantly higher than WalMart's.

As for "under investigation in numerous countries", try two, both cases of which were for their prices being "too low", and both of which have already been settled, one in WalMart's favor, the other against.  Unsurprisingly, it was Germany that decided that low prices were very, very bad, and WalMart simply shrugged, sold all their German stores, and left them to pay way too much for everything, the way you seem to like to do.

My mind is frankly boggling at anyone trying to claim moral superiority for exclusively doing business with people who aren't very good at it, but if it somehow makes you feel good about yourself to be proud of your stupidity, well . . . at least you're playing to your strengths.


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 6, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



perhaps the hot trend to hate Wal Mart can be traced to one thing. Wal Marts standing up to labor unions and refusing to let them take hold inside of Wal Mart Inc.

I 100% believe that is the case.


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## Pogo (Jan 6, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> LOL.  Well we're probably speaking past each other because we seem to be communicating in different languages here.
> 
> I thought I was being quite consistent in my point of view, because I do have one pretty well engraved in granite on this particular subject, but if I left another impression through poor communication skills, I apologize.
> 
> ...



Well, your last line directly contradicts what came before it, whether you choose to see it or not:
"And I *have *problems with..."
"I have *no* problem with..."
These are opposite things.  Either you have a problem with, or you don't.  You can't just shift gears mid-post.

Here's what I'm observing about the rhetorical dynamic -- forget about the "fascists" crap...

We enter a poll asking "Do you shop at Wal-Mart?", which is a yes/no question...

Those that answer 'yes' merely do so, we go on to the next post, life goes on...

Those that answer 'no' are each pounced on by any number of Wal-Mart shills, peppering them with, so far:
"This is why they loved Stalin so much!!"...
"the Liberals can ban Walmart"...
"You're a fucking idiot, and I cannot imagine anyone being more gullible than you without having to be locked up for her own protection"...
 "stick in his asshole"...
"fucking retard"...
"to [sic] fucking stupid"...
"stupidity that makes you ignorantly..."
"self righteous ignoramus"....
-- as well as your own more reasoned, less shrill objections to the crime of opting out.
And _none_ of which is visited upon those who answer the poll in the affirmative.  Answer "yes", you're free to go. Answer "no", all hell breaks loose.

See your own pattern yet?

Now I ask you --- *WHO* are the ones with the obsessed fixation here?  Which one of us is lashing out from the poverty of their own insecurities?

Defence rests.


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 6, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > LOL.  Well we're probably speaking past each other because we seem to be communicating in different languages here.
> ...




I'm not going to revisit 70 pages to find specific examples, but what you claim isn't true. Those who don't like Wal Mart who are posting in this thread have certainly done their share of name calling and such towards those who do.

Yet another example of what I posted in another thread, a thread that strangely not one person has posted in, everyone wants to pretend like "their side" is perfect and "the other side" is a bunch of name calling babies who just want to argue.

Anyone with even an ounce of honesty should feel compelled to acknowledge that that type of bullshit comes from BOTH sides.


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## Pogo (Jan 6, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...


 ?

I only took these from the point where I walked in.  And from that point at least, it certainly _*is *_true.

So let me get this straight ... I list specific examples verbatim, but you don't have to do that.  And then you want "honesty".

Not buying it; your denial is naught but gainsaying.  That's not refutation.  Do your homework and wake me when you actually find some.  The point stands.


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 6, 2013)

Pogo said:


> JustTheFacts said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



First post page 2, we have an anti WM poster calling someone names. Is this enough to prove my point or will you further argue??



Wry Catcher said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > If the store had the lowest price on something that I wanted yes I would. For those who feel victimized by Walmart's practices I suggest they make themselves better equipped for the job market. Opportunities are plentiful for those who possess the best qualifications, market themselves well and have the wherewithal to commit to what the job market demands.
> ...


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## initforme (Jan 6, 2013)

I prefer to drive past wal mart.   I dont have a grudge againsgt it but I will support my local businesses first.  I would like those businesses that were here before wal mart to stay in business rather than let some huge corporation take over. 
  That being said,  I am hoping that walmart employees move up the pay scale very very rapidly compared to their starting wage.   If one pretends to pay you, then you should pretend to work.


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 6, 2013)

initforme said:


> I prefer to drive past wal mart.   I dont have a grudge againsgt it but I will support my local businesses first.  I would like those businesses that were here before wal mart to stay in business rather than let some huge corporation take over.
> That being said,  I am hoping that walmart employees move up the pay scale very very rapidly compared to their starting wage.   *If one pretends to pay you, then you should pretend to work.*



What a childish belief. If a person agrees to work all day long for $1 a day then they should work all day long for that dollar,not bitch about the amount they agreed to work for.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 7, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



I don't choose to see it because the last line of my post contradicts nothing.  Whatever one's reason for not shopping at Walmart is their business and I honestly don't care why they don't shop at Walmart.  Or why they do for that matter.

Opposing Walmart on false charges is something quite different.  And if you can't see that then I doubt you would be able to understand any other argument I might make.


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## Dragonlady (Jan 7, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Opposing Walmart on false charges is something quite different.  And if you can't see that then I doubt you would be able to understand any other argument I might make.



Denial is not just a river in Egypt.  What false charges?  Are you aware that Walmart is facing charges in several jurisdictions outside the US for unfair business practices, bribery, and other unsavoury acts?


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## Si modo (Jan 7, 2013)

Yes, I shop at Walmart.


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## Cecilie1200 (Jan 7, 2013)

Dragonlady said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Opposing Walmart on false charges is something quite different.  And if you can't see that then I doubt you would be able to understand any other argument I might make.
> ...



No, and neither are you.  What you're aware of is that someone TOLD you that was the case, and what WE are aware of is that you're such an obedient, gullible little monkey you shot straight up and went, "Ohmigod, that's TERRIBLE!  I can't ever shop there!" without asking a single question.

Still not giving a fuck where you shop, by the way.  Just not respecting your choice, your reasons, or you.


----------



## Foxfyre (Jan 7, 2013)

Dragonlady said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Opposing Walmart on false charges is something quite different.  And if you can't see that then I doubt you would be able to understand any other argument I might make.
> ...



And do you have any credible support for this information or do you just parrot the anti-Walmart propaganda that is spread around the internet?  Do you honestly believe that the Walmart management is so stupid as to engage in activity that would incur that kind of negative publicity?  Or generate lawsuits for unfair business practices, bribery, and other unsavory acts?

Tell me.  Why do you choose to believe that kind of propaganda?  Are you so gullible that you don't bother to do your own research?  Or are you part of the intentional organized efforts to attack Walmart and force them to unionize or conform to some people's preconceived notions about what is socially acceptable?

And no, my asking the question is not demanding that you shop at Walmart nor is it suggesting that you even should.  The fact that somebody called somebody a name just because they attack Walmart isn't relevent either.  (That was not directed at you but is response to another member on this thread.)

There are all kinds of people in the world.  There are those who understand that a free people picks and chooses their own buying preferences, marketing experiences, and how they will live their lives and where they will shop.   And there are those who think government should engineer a more perfect life for everybody and people who don't conform should be demonized if not actually punished.

I rather prefer freedom of choice and everybody having as many choices, options, and opportunities as possible.  And unless Walmart has the freedom to do business as everybody else has freedom to do business, then there is no freedom.


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## Pogo (Jan 7, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> JustTheFacts said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



Then you just missed the entire point of the post you quoted, even while it sat in the same text box you were writing in.  The _pattern _is the point. 

Take a look at the post just before yours; it took all of eight minutes for the next previous post voting in the negative to get contradicted. Then following your post, same thing again.  It's not the severity; it's not even the reasoning -- it's a pattern of prescribed thought.  One side is bent on changing the minds of the other side, one opinion at a time, by any means necessary.  We have a poll where one can vote yes or no, but only one vote is 'acceptable'.  If there's a difference between that and some third-world dictator running a "free" election where he somehow ends up with 100% of the vote, it's only that Mal-Wart is not a third-world dictator.

(Or is it?)

For all that gets said about Mal-Wart's tightwadness, I wasn't aware the corporation actually goes to the expense of employing people to sit on message boards and shill for it.


----------



## Si modo (Jan 7, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Actually, it's Walmart who is filing suits for unfair labor practices against union thugs.


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## Pogo (Jan 7, 2013)

Just to suddenly snap back to the basic question, since those with a negative answer have to be grilled like some Alabama literacy test, think back to Thanksgiving Day when Mal-Wart required employees to work on a national holiday that is built around the family.  That's another thing I can't support.  My culture is way way way more important than bending over for some fat cat to make yet another buck at the expense of the hearth.  That kind of materialistic attitude can go straight to hell and never come back.

Now some company shill will be here in the standard eight minutes to vilify me for taking a step that won't change what I object to.  That's not the point.  I think of it collectively; if we all refused to enable that kind of thing, the company would be forced to relent, but that starts with one.  In that I'm doing *my* part, which is all I can do.  Unlike some here, I don't believe I can do other people's parts for them.

Or as they used to say in grammar school, if "everybody else" jumped off a cliff, would you jump too?"


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## Si modo (Jan 7, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Just to suddenly snap back to the basic question, since those with a negative answer have to be grilled like some Alabama literacy test, think back to Thanksgiving Day when Mal-Wart required employees to work on a national holiday that is built around the family.  That's another thing I can't support.  My culture is way way way more important than bending over for some fat cat to make yet another buck at the expense of the hearth.  That kind of materialistic attitude can go straight to hell and never come back.
> 
> Now some company shill will be here in the standard eight minutes to vilify me for taking a step that won't change what I object to.  That's not the point.  I think of it collectively; if we all refused to enable that kind of thing, the company would be forced to relent, but that starts with one.  In that I'm doing *my* part, which is all I can do.  Unlike some here, I don't believe I can do other people's parts for them.
> 
> Or as they used to say in grammar school, if "everybody else" jumped off a cliff, would you jump too?"


These guys had to work on Thanksgiving, too.






They're not whining.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 7, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Just to suddenly snap back to the basic question, since those with a negative answer have to be grilled like some Alabama literacy test, think back to Thanksgiving Day when Mal-Wart required employees to work on a national holiday built that is built around family.  That's another thing I can't support.  My culture is way way way more important than bending over for some fat cat to make yet another buck on the back of the hearth.  That kind of attitude can go straight to hell and never come back.
> 
> Now some company shill will be here in the standard eight minutes to vilify me for taking a step that won't change what I object to.  That's not the point.  I think of it collectively; if we all refused to enable that kind of thing, the company would be forced to relent, but that starts with one.  In that I'm doing *my* part, which is all I can do.  Unlike some here, I don't believe I can do other people's parts for them.
> 
> Or as they used to say in grammar school, if "everybody else" jumped off a cliff, would you jump too?"



Nobody 'enabled' anything other than Walmart and its employees.  The employees who worked on Thanksgiving Day almost all volunteered to take those shifts because they received premium pay.  My friends who worked on Thanksgiving all asked to do so.

And in case you didn't notice, Walgreens, almost all restaurant chains, service stations, and numerous other businesses were all open on Thanksgiving Day.  Target started its Black Friday deals at 9 a.m. Thanksgiving morning.

So if you're going to demonize Walmart for opening up on Thanksgiving, at least be fair and demonize everybody.  There was a time in America when all businesses were expected to give their employees Sundays off.  And there was much grumbling and finger pointing and anger when first one business, then another, then another started opening on Sunday.  Some state governments even tried to regulate it with 'Blue Laws'.  But now we don't even blink when just about everything is open on Sunday.

Don't like the trends?  Don't shop on days you think stores should be closed.

But don't pretend that Walmart is some kind of big bully villain because they take advantage of the trends.


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## Pogo (Jan 7, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> I rather prefer freedom of choice and everybody having as many choices, options, and opportunities as possible.  And unless Walmart has the freedom to do business as everybody else has freedom to do business, then there is no freedom.



??? Where the hell did that come from?  Now we're back to Special Ed's "banning Wal-Mart" strawman.  Are you actually suggesting that *the Wal-Mart corporation doesn't have 
"freedom to do business"?????* 

Have you been uh, _outside _in the last twenty years?  If that's not "free to do business", I'm the Freaking Queen of Belgium.


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 7, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Just to suddenly snap back to the basic question, since those with a negative answer have to be grilled like some Alabama literacy test, think back to Thanksgiving Day when Mal-Wart required employees to work on a national holiday that is built around the family.  That's another thing I can't support.  My culture is way way way more important than bending over for some fat cat to make yet another buck at the expense of the hearth.  That kind of materialistic attitude can go straight to hell and never come back.
> 
> Now some company shill will be here in the standard eight minutes to vilify me for taking a step that won't change what I object to.  That's not the point.  I think of it collectively; if we all refused to enable that kind of thing, the company would be forced to relent, but that starts with one.  In that I'm doing *my* part, which is all I can do.  Unlike some here, I don't believe I can do other people's parts for them.
> 
> Or as they used to say in grammar school, if "everybody else" jumped off a cliff, would you jump too?"



you can blame the company all you want, but the reality is if consumers didn't want  Wal Mart open on Thanksgiving, they wouldn't be.

Hell myself I think Wal Mart and all other companies should be closed on Sundays as well. I think there is valid evidence to support that when families spent Sundays at home together our country was stronger, but there is a reason companies started opening on sundays. That's what the consumer wanted.

So , you call Wal Mart greedy for opening on a day their customers want them opened? I call that smart business.


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## Pogo (Jan 7, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Just to suddenly snap back to the basic question, since those with a negative answer have to be grilled like some Alabama literacy test, think back to Thanksgiving Day when Mal-Wart required employees to work on a national holiday built that is built around family.  That's another thing I can't support.  My culture is way way way more important than bending over for some fat cat to make yet another buck on the back of the hearth.  That kind of attitude can go straight to hell and never come back.
> ...



No no no you don't.  You tried to pull this on me before, the old MHDIT defense (Mommy, he did it too).  The fact is I don't support _any _store that does that and never did.  But don't be jumping on me because the specific topic is Wal-Mart and I chose not to go off on tangents.  That's outright dishonest.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 7, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > I rather prefer freedom of choice and everybody having as many choices, options, and opportunities as possible.  And unless Walmart has the freedom to do business as everybody else has freedom to do business, then there is no freedom.
> ...



You sure do read a lot of stuff that isn't said into posts.  I wasn't even thinking 'banning Walmart' in my post.  It was in response to one who seemed to think that Walmart was unacceptable for being Walmart and who was accusing it of all sorts of awful things that I don't believe can be supported by anything other than malicious propaganda that is intended to hurt Walmart.


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## Pogo (Jan 7, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Just to suddenly snap back to the basic question, since those with a negative answer have to be grilled like some Alabama literacy test, think back to Thanksgiving Day when Mal-Wart required employees to work on a national holiday that is built around the family.  That's another thing I can't support.  My culture is way way way more important than bending over for some fat cat to make yet another buck at the expense of the hearth.  That kind of materialistic attitude can go straight to hell and never come back.
> ...



Ah yes, the old "we're only doing what the public wants" canard.  Right on time.  Like the existence of the SUV 

The fact is the company (retailer/manufacturer) has to lead that.  The consumer is a follower.  Exactly what H.L. Mencken meant with "nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public".

The fact is we still have the choice -- for now.  And some of us exercise that choice, like it or lump it.

H.L. Mencken didn't say this though:
"When they came for Thanksgiving I said nothing because I wasn't doing anything that night except visiting family..."


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## Pogo (Jan 7, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



 ::shif:: aw, did da poor widdle megacorp get its feewings hurt?  Wah.  And how much is Mal-Wart paying you to defend her honour?

Just where did anyone else besides you and Special Ed suggest Mal-Wart shouldn't have the "freedom to do buisness"?

I've got to get out of the house but I'll leave with this platitude, because this is what this is all about:

*Speak truth to power.*


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## Foxfyre (Jan 7, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



No.  It is dishonest to make a post that presumes Walmart is a villain because they opened on Thanksgiving when you don't acknowledge that almost everybody else did too.  JTF hit the nail on the head.  The reason all those stores were open on Thanksgiving is because so many people wanted to shop on Thanksgiving.  Our local Albertsons was open on Thanksgiving too and a whole bunch of people who forgot the poultry seasoning or needed another pound of butter or forgot the ice or dinner rolls were very grateful that they were.  And it was profitable for them to be open.

I too enjoyed a gentler, more laid back time when the sidewalks were rolled up by midnight on Saturday night and everybody could look forward to a day off on Sundays.  But that world no longer exists in most places in America and Walmart is no more evil than anybody else for recognizing that and adjusting their marketing strategy to accommodate what their customers want and respond to.

And obviously there are a whole bunch of folks who really jumped at the chance for premium holiday pay and preferred to work rather than sit drinking beer and watching endless football games on TV.   That is another reality of our modern society.


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 7, 2013)

Pogo said:


> JustTheFacts said:
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> > Pogo said:
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Wait, so you believe that a company that has been as fantastically succesful as Wal Mart has been just makes wholesale decisions to open on Sundays or stay open 24 hours a day or what have you and then expects the consumer to adapt?

Wal Mart is one of the more dynamic "big" companies out there, they change to give their customers what they want because well they want the customers.

Hell son, they run focus groups to help decide where to put the milk, I doubt they just were sitting around and decided "hey let's convince the consumer to shop on Thanksgiving"

By the way, I agree that average American is stupid,  but stupid doesn't translate to "hey wal mart said we should shop on Thanksgiving so let's go to town ma"


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## Foxfyre (Jan 7, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


> Pogo said:
> 
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> > JustTheFacts said:
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Nor does it really balance the fairness meter to suggest that Walmart is somehow more evil than anybody else because it opened on Thanksgiving.  Was this a community decision between all the big retail chains?  Who knows?   Did all of Walmart competitors open because Walmart did, and if Walmart had decided to close on Thanksgiving everybody else would have too?   Takes a real stretch to get to that point too.

If ya'll want people to have Thanksgiving off, refuse to shop or do any other business on Thanksgiving.  But apparently there are millions and millions of people out there who aren't buying into your personal preferences.


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## Pogo (Jan 7, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Pogo said:
> 
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*Bolshoi*.  The topic _*is*_ specifically Wal-Mart. therefore that's what we discuss.  And you just started with the word "no" and then admitted the MHDIT reasoning.  Do you not see these self-contradictions as you're writing them?

When the topic is Mal-Wart, I'm not going to be talking about Albertson's.  Want a topic on Albertson's?  Start one.  Want a topic on Black Thursday?  Start one.  That's not what this is.  And my specifying a reason to shun Mal-Wart does not in any way excuse anybody else just because I didn't list them.  That inference is dishonest.  Why bend over backward to morph my point into something it isn't?  Your shillphone is showing.



Foxfyre said:


> JTF hit the nail on the head.  The reason all those stores were open on Thanksgiving is because so many people wanted to shop on Thanksgiving.



*Double Bolshoi*.  The reason they opened is to try to get a jump on their competition and make yet another buck.  Nobody buys that corporate PR hogswallop.   I didn't see masses of demonstrators out on Thanksgiving Day, this year or any other, demanding that stores open.  Don't be so naïve. 



Foxfyre said:


> I too enjoyed a gentler, more laid back time when the sidewalks were rolled up by midnight on Saturday night and everybody could look forward to a day off on Sundays.  But that world no longer exists in most places in America and Walmart is no more evil than anybody else for recognizing that and adjusting their marketing strategy to accommodate what their customers want and respond to.



And therefore let's just throw up our hands and bend over, right?  Hey what are you guys doing?  Jumping off this cliff?  Can I join?  What a great idea.



Foxfyre said:


> And obviously there are a whole bunch of folks who really jumped at the chance for premium holiday pay and preferred to work rather than sit drinking beer and watching endless football games on TV.   That is another reality of our modern society.



Yet another non sequitur riding in on the wings of a canard.  This is not a topic about football.  Not that I'd know anything about that anyway; sitting in front of the boob tube isn't exactly interacting with family.  But we digress.  To the first part of the sentence about sheeple, see previous "cliff" utterance.  Blind obedience is the enabler.  Blind obedience... making my own choice... decisions, decisions...


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## LogikAndReazon (Jan 7, 2013)

Because there is a moral statement to be made by not shopping there...............LOL


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## Pogo (Jan 7, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


> Wal Mart is one of the more dynamic "big" companies out there, they change to give their customers what they want because well they want the customers.



A neat trick, knowing what the customer wanted before the customer ever knew they wanted it.  Smell test fails. 



JustTheFacts said:


> Hell son, they run focus groups to help decide where to put the milk, I doubt they just were sitting around and decided "hey let's convince the consumer to shop on Thanksgiving"



Actually I think they did exactly that.  Somebody did, I don't remember if Mal-Wart started it or somebody else did, but some corporate boardroom did, and we lost several hours of a family holiday.  And the sheeple that go out to these orgies are just as guilty enabling it.



JustTheFacts said:


> By the way, I agree that average American is stupid,  but stupid doesn't translate to "hey wal mart said we should shop on Thanksgiving so let's go to town ma"



Actually I think it means exactly that.  Well put.

Funny, I never see this lame "they're just doing what the customer wants" excuse being used for Chick-Fil-A, which still closes on Sundays.

Ironic, huh?


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## Foxfyre (Jan 7, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



Well I'm sure it would be a wonderful world if everybody saw it through your eyes and everybody conformed to the way you think the world should be.  But alas, too many people choose their own view of the world and what feels right to them.

Walmart does not have any duty to require people to have a family day on Thanksgiving.  And apparently there are a whole lot of people who don't consider a Thanksgiving family day important enough to forego the opportunity to go shopping for special deals and get ahead on their Christmas shopping.

I have family who are very family oriented but who went shopping on Thanksgiving.  I know many others who really didn't have much of anything else to do on Thanksgiving.   I personally love the Thanksgiving meal--it is my favorite meal to cook every year--and enjoy having family over.  I get terribly bored with endless football games though and if that is all that is going to happen after the Thanksgiving meal, shopping might be a welcome diversion.

Nobody is asking you or requiring you to shop anywhere at any time.  And your preferences for the way things should be are very much your right to have.

But the rest of us sort of insist on you allowing us to do what we enjoy doing when we enjoy doing it too and not be required to conform to what you consider the appropriate and right thing to do.


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## Pogo (Jan 7, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> JustTheFacts said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



Once again you've got some kind of rhetorical Cajun Injector inserting points that I never put there.  I made no comparison with other businesses.  None whatsoever.  *You *did.  You're trying to get poor defenseless Mal-Wart out of the spotlight by bringing in all sorts of other businesses and using them as shields.  It's not selling.  I don't know why you keep putting it out there.

And yes, given Mal-Wart's size and impact on retail, yes it's plausible that their competitors, given the same business principles, would follow their lead.  That's not a "stretch" -- it's how the free market works.


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## Pogo (Jan 7, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> But the rest of us sort of insist on you allowing us to do what we enjoy doing when we enjoy doing it too and not be required to conform to what you consider the appropriate and right thing to do.



Cajun Injector Strawman strikes again.  Apparently it's got unlimited fuel.

You're talking in circles now -- you're right back to Special Ed's "banning Wal-Mart" that nobody brought up.  Apparently you don't have an argument because this is where we came in.

I gotta go out.  I'll be driving right past Mal-Wart, without going in.  Deal with it.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 7, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > But the rest of us sort of insist on you allowing us to do what we enjoy doing when we enjoy doing it too and not be required to conform to what you consider the appropriate and right thing to do.
> ...



LOL.  I have not suggested banning Walmart nor have I noted anybody else suggesting banning Walmart.  But you keep reading that into different people's posts.

And I'm sure you don't think I have an argument.  But I do whether or not I am able to articulate it in the most effective way.

It is okay that I don't CARE that you drive past Walmart without going in isn't it?  That is one point I'm pretty damn sure I was crystal clear about.


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## LogikAndReazon (Jan 7, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Just to suddenly snap back to the basic question, since those with a negative answer have to be grilled like some Alabama literacy test, think back to Thanksgiving Day when Mal-Wart required employees to work on a national holiday built that is built around family.  That's another thing I can't support.  My culture is way way way more important than bending over for some fat cat to make yet another buck on the back of the hearth.  That kind of attitude can go straight to hell and never come back.
> ...



you must forgive these retards mindless obsessions.....


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## Dragonlady (Jan 7, 2013)

For those who deny Walmart is facing charges:

Charges for multiple violation of the Workplace Safety Act in Canada:

Wal-Mart charged in workplace death of teen - New Brunswick - CBC News

Briberty charges in Mexico:

Shocked About The Bribery Charges At Walmart - Forbes


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 7, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Pogo said:
> 
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> > Foxfyre said:
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No doubt right. He's transferred his anger that we shop at Wal Mart into that must mean we're angry that he doesn't.

I own no stock in Wal Mart, therefor I couldn't care less who does what business there.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 7, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Ah yes, the old "we're only doing what the public wants" canard.  Right on time.  Like the existence of the SUV



Question, since you are a leftist; blessed with a low, double-digit IQ; can you explain why Walmart pays employees to be at work when the public obviously doesn't want to shop? Don't they lose money? Or is it that since they are evil, they don't care if they lose money so long as they can make the employees suffer? 

I mean we KNOW that it isn't that your just a greedy union hack who doesn't give a fuck about Walmart employees and just wants to expand the power of the union by coercing Walmart to join; right?


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 7, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Ah yes, the old "we're only doing what the public wants" canard.  Right on time.  Like the existence of the SUV
> ...




I can just picture the CEO of Wal Mart pitching that idea to the Board of Directors

"Alright guys Is got an idea, let's lose millions by opening on a day when no one wants to shop in order to teach our employees who's boss"



And what's crazy is  it worked, I mean look how empty Wal Marts across the country were on Thanksgiving Day.

Oh wait................


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 7, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



And let's not forget when the liberals destroy Walmart, Home Depot will be next. They lack the IQ to understand business so want to recreate it as they see fit, i.e., as the soviets did. They have an endless and treasonous appetite for taxing, regulating, taking over, and socializing free enterprise!! There never has been an end in sight.


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## thanatos144 (Jan 7, 2013)

Pogo said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...


Calling you a idiot, you fucking moron is not controlling.... You are such a stupid douche.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 7, 2013)

Dragonlady said:


> Because Target didn't declare it's dividends before December 31st in order for it's largest shareholders to avoid paying $180 million in taxes on dividends after January 1st.



of course we all do what our accounts say and should if its legal and will save us money! Ony a liberal would lack the IQ to understand that and suggest we pay more taxes than the code requires!!

Do most liberals do that to help out the governemnt. Did Al Gore just do it??????????????? What about Google, a big Obama campaign contributor, the left-leaning Washington Post, Star Wars mogul George Lucas and rapper Dr. Dre?????????????

See why we are positve a liberal will be slow, so very very slow???


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## TruthSeeker56 (Jan 7, 2013)

I find it incredible that a topic called "Do You Shop At Walmart" would elicit over 1,000 responses.

I personally don't give a shit where anybody shops or doesn't shop.

My family happens to like Wal Mart because of their PRICES. Nothing more, nothing less. 

I don't give a shit if Walmart pays high wages or low wages. I have never seen a Walmart employee chained to the cash register or handcuffed to a shopping cart.

I could care less if Walmart has forced some of their competitors to close their doors. That's all a part of the free enterprise system, supply and demand, and competition.

I don't care when Walmart stores open, when they close, where they build their stores, what sort of tax breaks they get for creating thousands of jobs every year, etc.

For those of you who don't shop at Walmart, good for you. If you can afford to pay higher prices somewhere else because you have a hard spot for Walmart, I JUST DON'T CARE.

Go to Target. Go to Meijers. Go to K-Mart. Go to Sears. Go to Kroger and Piggly Wiggly and Fry's and Smith's and Albertson's and any other supermarket you want to. Go to the many regional retailers around the country.

If it makes you feel better, and helps you sleep better at night, and makes you all warm and fuzzy because you are "making a stand" or "supporting the slaves who work at Wal Mart", then GOOD FOR YOU!

While you are wasting your time and your money bitching about Walmart, I'll be going there on almost a daily basis, paying less money, finding great bargains, and loading up our family van with SAVINGS.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 7, 2013)

TruthSeeker56 said:


> I find it incredible that a topic called "Do You Shop At Walmart" would elicit over 1,000 responses.
> 
> I personally don't give a shit where anybody shops or doesn't shop.
> 
> ...



Walmart is God. They give our economy an extra $300 billion a year in savings to spend!!

"The conclusion ......is that the continued reduction in prices due to the presence of Wal-Mart and the growth in consumer expenditures over the 2004 to 2006 period translates directly into savings for consumers amounting to $287 billion in 2006.  This corresponds to savings of $957 per person or $2,500 per household in America."


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## Pheonixops (Jan 7, 2013)

Proud Walmart shopper.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 7, 2013)

Pheonixops said:


> Proud Walmart shopper.




right, who couldn't use an extra $2500 a year!!!!


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## Pogo (Jan 7, 2013)

TruthSeeker56 said:


> I find it incredible that a topic called "Do You Shop At Walmart" would elicit over 1,000 responses.
> 
> I personally don't give a shit where anybody shops or doesn't shop.
> 
> ...




Would that the shills in this thread had your healthy laissez-faire attitude.  Thank you.  Actually you're the first poster I've seen who's secure enough to allow dissent from the Mal-Wart party line.

On the end point I would just note, (a) it costs nothing to criticize Mal-Wart; and (b) the number on the cash register receipt is not the whole story of one's consumerism.  If it is to you, then it's a no-brainer -- enjoy.  For me it's a bit deeper but different strokes.

I might just add a random thought about that register receipt though, which is that while you're stuffing your van with savings, I'm paying even less on a lot of stuff via eBay.  And I don't even need a van.


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## Pogo (Jan 7, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Ah yes, the old "we're only doing what the public wants" canard.  Right on time.  Like the existence of the SUV
> ...



Answer: since you're no deeper than swinging the ad hominem club right out of the chute, no, I doubt I can explain anything that would sink in.  Why should I waste my time?

(Foxfyre -- see ^^ what I mean?  Pattern?)


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## TruthSeeker56 (Jan 8, 2013)

Pogo said:


> TruthSeeker56 said:
> 
> 
> > I find it incredible that a topic called "Do You Shop At Walmart" would elicit over 1,000 responses.
> ...



I buy and sell on e-Bay ALL THE TIME. It's what I do to supplement my retirement income. So there is NOTHING about e-Bay that you can tell me, that I don't already know. I love e-Bay, and I also shop on many other internet websites. My wife likes to shop on Amazon.

However, as I'm sure you know, there are some things you just can't or shouldn't buy on the internet, especially on e-Bay or even Amazon. Things like food and expensive electronics and many "consumables".

I have to wonder why nobody talks about the wages that Target pays, or the employee benefit packages at K-Mart and hundreds of other national retailers. 

Walmart is no different than other discount retailers. They get the spotlight pointed at them because they are the biggest and most successful retailer in the world. They didn't become the biggest by accident. 

RESPONSIBLE "average" people, with bills to pay and families to feed, put their agendas on the back burner and do their best to make their dollars stretch as far as they can. That's why Walmart is the biggest discount retailer.

Let's face it, NOBODY makes a really good living in the retail sector, unless they are in upper management or they own a successful retail business of their own.

It all comes down to people trying to impose their beliefs on everybody else, and in the process, infringing on EVERYBODY'S right to choose and their right to free will.

If you don't like Walmart, don't shop there.
If you don't like firearms, don't buy one.
If you don't like SUVs or other "gas guzzlers", go buy a hybrid or a Nissan Leaf.
If you believe that fast food restaurants serve unhealthy food, don't eat there.
If you don't like people who are good at earning money, then figure out what you need to do to become good at making money.
If you don't have a good health care plan, then find better a better health care plan.
And the list goes on....................


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## Foxfyre (Jan 8, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



Some members do post more ad hominem than others and many of these have no argument at all.  Sort of like those who put words in people's mouths and accuse them of saying what they didn't say, meaning what they didn't mean, and demanding what they didn't demand.  All of which you have done to me through most of this discussion; however, you have not been particularly unpleasant in the process so oh well.

Others post more ad hominem than others but also offer a reasoned and coherant argument or make a valid point.  Those I can work with.

One of the components of this discussion is to ferret out the motive for what appears to be a well organized and orchestrated attempt to hurt Walmart.  I think most of us agree that Walmart is targeted because it is the largest and most successful, but why mess with that?   It is having some minimal effect as witnessed by those who dig for ANYTHING they can validly accuse or criticize Walmart with and who studiously ignore any positives in the Walmart story.

And it is a given that any huge corporation, or even most small businesses, are going to have some missteps and there will be something to criticize.

But why attack Walmart?   Could it be, as Uncensored perhaps indelicately suggested, be to force them to unionize?  To force them to conform to whatever social agenda that do-gooders or busy bodies wish to foist upon them?   To increase the power and influence and ability of government to effect social change and demand more of the liberal agenda?  (I say liberal agenda because no true conservative has any problem with Walmart being Walmart whether or not they choose to shop there.)


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 8, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
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That is of course exactly the reason. If Wal Mart was a good little employer and hired union employees they would be celebrated.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 8, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


> Foxfyre said:
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> > Pogo said:
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I think you're probably right.  And those condemning Walmart as evil because of whatever would instead be defending them or excusing them for those same 'crimes'.


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 8, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> JustTheFacts said:
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In other news, I just ran to Wal Mart and picked a few things up, including some really delicious looking avocados which were probably picked by an 8 year old Ecuadorian girl who is paid a nickel a day to pick them, I paid twenty nine cents apiece for them. 

The only thing better than avocados is inexpensive avocados.


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## Pogo (Jan 8, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> JustTheFacts said:
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There you go again.  Cajun Injectors must be on sale at Mal-Wart? 

Start with the paragraph "Could it be..." and tell me why that is *not * exactly what you just described about "saying what they didn't say".  No, ferreting out the motive _*unilaterally *_is _not _ part of a rational discussion; it's constructing a strawman.  Nobody but Special Ed (a Mal-Wart shopper) claimed anybody wanted to "ban" Wal-Mart.  Nobody but you W-M shoppers came up with the idea of "banning", "controlling", "restricting" or what have you.  If we did, bring it on with a quote.

Choosing the answer "no" to the poll question (and explaining why) is not "attacking" Wal-Mart.  We *do* have the choice-- it *is* a yes/no question.  That means you have to accept those answers at variance with your own.  Just as those of us on the 'no' side accept yours.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 8, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


> I just ran to Wal Mart and picked a few things up, including some really delicious looking avocados which were probably picked by an 8 year old Ecuadorian girl



1)Child labor is fine as long as there is no better alternative for the child. 

2) Of course the solution to poverty is capitalism, but it spreads slowly if at all because brain dead liberals oppose it. 

3) So, libturds are responsible for all the child labor in the world.


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## Pogo (Jan 8, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


> In other news, I just ran to Wal Mart and picked a few things up, including some really delicious looking avocados which were probably picked by an 8 year old Ecuadorian girl who is paid a nickel a day to pick them, I paid twenty nine cents apiece for them.
> 
> The only thing better than avocados is inexpensive avocados.



That's more eloquent than I could have put it.  
No further explanation should be needed.  You could actually use this justification for either a yes or no answer.

It does remind me of an eternal linguistic question -- where the hell is Ecuadoria?


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 8, 2013)

Pogo said:


> JustTheFacts said:
> 
> 
> > In other news, I just ran to Wal Mart and picked a few things up, including some really delicious looking avocados which were probably picked by an 8 year old Ecuadorian girl who is paid a nickel a day to pick them, I paid twenty nine cents apiece for them.
> ...



substance free because a liberal will lack the IQ for substance


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## Mr Natural (Jan 8, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> JustTheFacts said:
> 
> 
> > I just ran to Wal Mart and picked a few things up, including some really delicious looking avocados which were probably picked by an 8 year old Ecuadorian girl
> ...




Yeah, the cheap labor conservatives are just innocent dupes in the whole matter.


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## Pogo (Jan 8, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > JustTheFacts said:
> ...



.....aaaand we're right back to "ad hominem, subtract credibilium".
Posterium sans cranium; ergo bullshitium.  Resemblium record brokenium.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 8, 2013)

Pogo said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
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substance free because a liberal will lack the IQ for substance


1)Child labor is fine as long as there is no better alternative for the child. 

2) Of course the solution to poverty is capitalism, but it spreads slowly if at all because brain dead liberals oppose it. 

3) So, libturds are responsible for all the child labor in the world.


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## JustTheFacts (Jan 8, 2013)

Pogo said:


> JustTheFacts said:
> 
> 
> > In other news, I just ran to Wal Mart and picked a few things up, including some really delicious looking avocados which were probably picked by an 8 year old Ecuadorian girl who is paid a nickel a day to pick them, I paid twenty nine cents apiece for them.
> ...









a huge supplier of avocados to the US . LOL


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 8, 2013)

Mr Clean said:


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if dupes you would not be so afraid to explain why. What does your fear tell you about the liberal IQ and character.


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## Pogo (Jan 8, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


> Pogo said:
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No, that's *Ecuador*.  Read more carefully.  I don't do typos.


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## Dragonlady (Jan 8, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> I think you're probably right.  And those condemning Walmart as evil because of whatever would instead be defending them or excusing them for those same 'crimes'.



I don't think so.  All of Walmart's business practices are sketchy and destructive.

They come into small towns and cut prices well below what the local businesses can afford to charge, forcing many of them out of business.  That's a loss of jobs, and taxes to the local community.  In some cases, the local business area looses so many small stores, few people go to the business area and all local businesses suffer.  This process is repeated so often, it's called "cratering".  In the end, only Walmart remains.

It also happens for suppliers.  Walmart constantly pressures them to reduce their prices and because of their enormous purchasing power, the suppliers are required to do so.  Often the best way to reduce costs is to manufacture offshore, so American jobs are lost so Walmart can give consumers those cheap, cheap prices.

I make a point of buying goods manufactured in 1st world countries.  I don't buy stuff that's made in China.  I think ethics matter.  Just because a thing is legal, doesn't make it right.  I value my friends and neighbours more than I value the money I can save shopping at Walmart.

I don't like unions and I have little use for them.  But I have less use for a company which promotes employment practices which keep it's employees dependent on food stamps and Medicaid, and forces it's suppliers to ship jobs overseas in an effort to pad it's profits.  

I hold no grudges against the people who choose to shop there.  I am surprised at the animosity of those who choose to shop at Walmart have for those of us who don't.  As for the $2500 a year Eddie crows about saving, I've seen figures that say that every taxpayer in America subsidizes Walmart to the tune of $2,400 a year, so at least Eddie is getting the taxes he put into the place back.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 8, 2013)

Dragonlady said:


> They come into small towns and cut prices well below what the local businesses can afford to charge, forcing many of them out of business.  That's a loss of jobs, and taxes to the local community.



a simple stupid soviet liberal lie. They save a town tons of money with lower prices. Everyone then has more money to stimulate the local economy. 

Imagine the pure ignorance in saying that lower prices are bad?? Would we be better off if cars were more and more expensive so fewer and fewer could afford them? Should we pass a low saying that you cant undercut your competition?? 

The pure ignorance of liberals is hard to imagine!!


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## Foxfyre (Jan 8, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Foxfyre said:
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You continue to read far more into a post and draw far more assumptions from it than what is there.  (This observation is not ad hominem nor is it a personal insult.  It is a simple statement of fact based on what you continue to do here.)

And you seem fixated on what one member posted waaaaaaay back somewhere among the many pages and hundreds of posts and seem to think all the rest of us are saying or iinferring the same thing.  We aren't.  You cannot find anywhere that I have accused anybody of wanting to ban Walmart.  I absolutely have said there are those who want to hurt Walmart because they've said so in this thread or their posts cannot be interpreted any other way.

Answering 'no' to the poll question is NOT attacking Walmart.  Stating that you didn't enjoy a Walmart experience is not attacking Walmart.  Offering a legitimate criticsm of Walmart is not attacking Walmart.

Taking an anecdotal negative incident or situation and stating it as typical of Walmart or protraying it as typical of what Walmart is all about IS attacking Walmart.

And it does beg the question of what motivates somebody to go out of their way to attack Walmart.   And why does there appear to be an organized and orchestrated effort on the part of some to punish or hurt Walmart?

We could also expore why you seem to have so much trouble understanding or correctly interpreting what others post, but that would be better explored on another thread.      (Just kidding.)


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## Mr Natural (Jan 8, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Mr Clean said:
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> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
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Perhaps dupes was bad choice of words.  Maybe souless, money gubbing pricks would be more to your liking.


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## Pogo (Jan 8, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Pogo said:
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You see, you can't just unilaterally assign your own choice of motivation to somebody else when they have articulated no such thing.  I can go back and fetch many many more examples just from your posts.  And you know I"ll do it.  I've bolded exactly one such phrase above, the latest in a long line of strawmen.  You get to declare your _own _motivations.  Not those of others.

But it does beg the question of what motivates somebody to go out of their way to apologize (shill) for Wal-Mart.  What's it to you?  Are you the ghost of Sam Walton?  Are you losing some commission you would have made on my purchases?  Why take personal offence that somebody else happens to have a different shopping standard?    For what reason should we all be thinking in lockstep?  Our daring to post criticism on a freaking message board is going to roll up the sidewalks on a megacorporation?  Get _over _it already.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 8, 2013)

Mr Clean said:


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but why souless. Don't you have a reason?? Does it occur to you that a reason is necessary?? Are you just a violent liberal Nazi who wants to right regardles of reason???


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## LogikAndReazon (Jan 8, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


> Foxfyre said:
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And eight yr old ecuadorian girls helping to feed their families  lol


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## Pogo (Jan 8, 2013)

Dragonlady said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > I think you're probably right.  And those condemning Walmart as evil because of whatever would instead be defending them or excusing them for those same 'crimes'.
> ...



 Indeed, some seem to think life is not just a one-dimensional quest for money, and that's it.  They want to live in a simplistic world, that's their business.  I too don't get why they feel the need to drag everybody else down with them.



Dragonlady said:


> I don't like unions and I have little use for them.  But I have less use for a company which promotes employment practices which keep it's employees dependent on food stamps and Medicaid, and forces it's suppliers to ship jobs overseas in an effort to pad it's profits.
> 
> I hold no grudges against the people who choose to shop there.  I am surprised at the animosity of those who choose to shop at Walmart have for those of us who don't.



Exactly.


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## Pogo (Jan 8, 2013)

LogikAndReazon said:


> JustTheFacts said:
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Just as life isn't entirely about money, price is not entirely about the tag.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 8, 2013)

LogikAndReazon said:


> JustTheFacts said:
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Mostly they don't have families, if they were loved they probably would not be working. Mostly what they have is a garbage dump to scavenge through or if they are lucky, factory work! 

There is huge poverty all over the world and all  because liberals stop the spread of capitalism!


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## Mr Natural (Jan 8, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Mr Clean said:
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Because when money becomes the sole motivating factor in all your decisions, you become dead inside, aka soulless.

Why do conservatives lack the IQ to figure that one out?


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 8, 2013)

Mr Clean said:


> Because when money becomes the sole motivating factor in all your decisions,



Sorry dear but conservatives are much more religious and give much more to charity than liberals so to say money is main factor would only make sense to a goofy liberal.


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## Mr Natural (Jan 8, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > Because when money becomes the sole motivating factor in all your decisions,
> ...



Guilt on their part for being such uncaring, money grubbing pricks.


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## Pogo (Jan 8, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > Because when money becomes the sole motivating factor in all your decisions,
> ...



It is after all the reasoning horse you've been riding up to now.  Didn't know they sold rotating goalposts at Mal-Wart.

Have fun down there -


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## LogikAndReazon (Jan 8, 2013)

Mr Clean said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
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Snot nosed liberal adolescents care more !!!!    lol


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## Pogo (Jan 8, 2013)

LogikAndReazon said:


> Mr Clean said:
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Foxfyre's gotta be cringing right now.  Having Special Ed on your side must be like having Alex Jones, run through a goofy amplifier.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 8, 2013)

LogikAndReazon said:


> And eight yr old ecuadorian girls helping to feed their families  lol



Leftists like Pogo only feel good about themselves if 8 year olds and their families starve to death.


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## Foxfyre (Jan 8, 2013)

Mr Clean said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
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What should be the motivating factor in our decisions?

Everybody could of course work for the common good - from each according to his ability or means and all that. . . .of course we know from bitter experience that this generally results in poverty or near poverty for everybody.  Nobody in their right mind, no matter how compassionate, will work for long for one who has no desire or motivation to contribute whatever he/she can for the 'common good'.

Or we all could be going about our business, looking to our own interests that includes making enough money to keep a roof over our heads, food on the table, pay the bills, educate our children, etc. etc. etc. and not expecting anybody else to do that for us.

Which is pretty much how and why Walmart operates.

So who is the greedy, soulless prick?  The one who strives for ecoomic success so as to look to his/her own interests?

Or the one who expects the other guy to provide whatever he or she says is needed?


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 8, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Just as life isn't entirely about money, price is not entirely about the tag.



Besides, third world kids starving to death makes you feel good about yourself. "At least they weren't working..."


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 8, 2013)

Mr Clean said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
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if uncaring why be so afraid you give your best example?? It must be nice to be morally superior and so caring?? You're a morality bigot given that capitalism transformed the world after 10,000 years of stagnation and starvation while  liberal socialism killed 125 million through slow starvation.

Why did you think our liberals spied for Stalin??


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 8, 2013)

Mr Clean said:


> Guilt on their part for being such uncaring, money grubbing pricks.



Besides, you leftists oppose giving anything to another that you didn't first take from your neighbor.

It's a matter of principle, charity begins in the pocket of another...


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## Pogo (Jan 8, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Just as life isn't entirely about money, price is not entirely about the tag.
> ...



So you're saying, life_* is*_ entirely about money, and every man for himself.

Thanks for confirming.  I wouldn't have made the suggestion, but if you're wearing it, "there you jolly well are ::whew:: aren't you?"  (< bonus: name source of that quote)


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## Mr Natural (Jan 8, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Mr Clean said:
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And which Liberals would those be?


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## Foxfyre (Jan 8, 2013)

Pogo said:


> LogikAndReazon said:
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> > Mr Clean said:
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I don't really expect anybody to be on my side.  I try to be on the side that is most right.  If there are others there too, well, that is their choice and they are welcome.  Probably some strange characters will be included in that group.

And no doubt there will be some very nice, pleasant, and decent people who will be dead wrong.

And somewhere in the middle of these two groups are those who don't have anything to offer to the discussion but making snarky remarks about people and/or their posts.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 8, 2013)

Mr Clean said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
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Alger Hiss for example. Look up Joe Macarthy son and see why our liberals spied for the oh so caring and liberal Joseph Stalin!!


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## Pogo (Jan 8, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Pogo said:
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Agreed! 

I was going to say, there'll be somebody along to provide an example in seconds.  He beat me to it.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 8, 2013)

Pogo said:


> So you're saying, life_* is*_ entirely about money, and every man for himself.



What I'm saying is that starvation is a brutal and bitter death that is best avoided. I find it fiendish that the left wishes it upon children merely to promote their own self-righteous indignation.



> Thanks for confirming.  I wouldn't have made the suggestion, but if you're wearing it, "there you jolly well are ::whew:: aren't you?"  (< bonus: name source of that quote)



The fact is Pogo, that you of the left have an abiding hatred for life, and would far more readily attack Walmart for failure to be under the control of the greedy unions you promote, than to see children escape starvation.


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## Pogo (Jan 8, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
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> > So you're saying, life_* is*_ entirely about money, and every man for himself.
> ...



The parade of strawmen continues.  Oi.
"you of the left"?  Let me get this straight-- on your planet "the left" is _organized_?? 

So diga me hombre - where have I even mentioned "unions"?  At all? 

(that oughta keep him busy for the next year...)


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## LogikAndReazon (Jan 8, 2013)

Workers of the World Unite . !!!!!!!      A global union and minimum wage for all comrades !   Hail Che Guevara !


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## Pheonixops (Jan 8, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Pheonixops said:
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> 
> > Proud Walmart shopper.
> ...



LOL, I get some good deals at Walmart, the beer is always cheaper!


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 9, 2013)

Pheonixops said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
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great!! cheaper beer and so money left over to spend elsewhere to stumulate the economy. It's the perfect example of how economic progress is made. The better and cheaper displace the worse and more costly.

Liberals lack the IQ to understand the process, sadly.


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## Mr Natural (Jan 9, 2013)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Pheonixops said:
> 
> 
> > Proud Walmart shopper.
> ...



Give me a break!

Do you have any idea how much crap you'd have to buy at Wal Mart to save $2500 a year over super market prices?


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 9, 2013)

Mr Clean said:


> Give me a break!
> 
> Do you have any idea how much crap you'd have to buy at Wal Mart to save $2500 a year over super market prices?



How much?

If I spend $200 a week on groceries at Walmart that would cost me $250 at Albertsons, it would take 50 weeks.


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## Mr Natural (Jan 9, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
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> > Give me a break!
> ...



Well then by all means, go to Wal Mart.

For me, the difference between Wal Mart and Stop and Shop is not that great.  And certainly not worth the trip or the time to schlep all the way to Wal Mart.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 9, 2013)

Mr Clean said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Pheonixops said:
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yes number is wrong given $450 billion annual net sales, 60% in USA, and 120 million USA households. Good for you!

although if you buy everything there as I'm sure many households do and you spend just $10,000 a year, a $2500 saving does not seem unreasonable. I just bought a rock solid office chair there for $125 that saved me from spending 5 times that much elsewhere.

Anyway you look at Walmart they are a Godsend especially when you see very poor families there buying clothes for their kids!


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 9, 2013)

Mr Clean said:


> Well then by all means, go to Wal Mart.



To the chagrin of the left, I have exactly that choice. 



> For me, the difference between Wal Mart and Stop and Shop is not that great.  And certainly not worth the trip or the time to schlep all the way to Wal Mart.



I am really fussy, and go mostly to Sprouts for produce. I probably don't go into Walmart more than 4 or 5 times a year. Meat I buy at Sams Club.


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