# Jack Morris, Alan Trammell Voted Into Baseball Hall Of Fame



## ShootSpeeders (Dec 11, 2017)

Trammell is ok but morris had a good w-l record and not much else.



> Jack Morris, Alan Trammell Voted Into Baseball Hall Of Fame
> 
> dec 10 2017  Jack Morris and Alan Trammell were both elected to the Baseball Hall Of Fame today, as announced on the MLB Network.  The two longtime Tigers greats were voted in via the HOF’s Modern Baseball Era Committee, who weighed the cases of Morris, Trammell and eight others who weren’t originally selected in the traditional writers’ vote.  (MLB.com’s Barry M. Bloom has the details on the Modern Era Committee’s composition and process.)
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## Bruce_T_Laney (Dec 11, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


> Trammell is ok but morris had a good w-l record and not much else.
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The four World Series rings had a lot to do with Morris induction...


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## rightwinger (Dec 11, 2017)

I'm OK with both selections

Both were borderline selections and among the best at their positions


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 11, 2017)

The BWAA HOF picks will be announced next month.  I think chipper jones and jim thome will make it though the steroid scandal may cost thome some votes.  Hope bonds and clemens also get in finally.


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 11, 2017)

Bruce_T_Laney said:


> The four World Series rings had a lot to do with Morris induction...



Three not four.


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## shockedcanadian (Dec 11, 2017)

Morris was an Alpha Male Ace.  He demanded victory and would scowl at his teammates if they made errors behind him.  He was money when you needed a win.  Appeared to be an ornery type, but was an intense competitor who made everyone around him that much more focused on their jobs.


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## rightwinger (Dec 11, 2017)

If you elect Jack Morris ....why not Denny McClain and Mickey Lolich?


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 11, 2017)

shockedcanadian said:


> Morris was an Alpha Male Ace.  He demanded victory and would scowl at his teammates if they made errors behind him.  He was money when you needed a win.  Appeared to be an ornery type, but was an intense competitor who made everyone around him that much more focused on their jobs.


Yeah - that's what the morris-lovers always said.  "He pitched to the score" and had a so-so ERA because he was willing to give up meaningless runs when his team was ahead 10-1.   .


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 11, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> If you elect Jack Morris ....why not Denny McClain and Mickey Lolich?



Mac was a gambler and lolich a fatty.  Case closed.


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## rightwinger (Dec 11, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


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Babe Ruth was a gambler and a fatty


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## shockedcanadian (Dec 11, 2017)

rightwinger said:


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Yes, but he turned the old HR record of 12 to 24 and then a staggering 60.  He made the owners many millions and turned baseball into Americas Game.


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 11, 2017)

shockedcanadian said:


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I think most serious  baseball fans  would still say ruth was the greatest player of all time.  Hard to believe of a guy born in the 1800s but that's baseball.


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## Bruce_T_Laney (Dec 11, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


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Read the article because it state four rings.


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## Bruce_T_Laney (Dec 11, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


> The BWAA HOF picks will be announced next month.  I think chipper jones and jim thome will make it though the steroid scandal may cost thome some votes.  Hope bonds and clemens also get in finally.



Hope not!


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## shockedcanadian (Dec 11, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


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Best all time?  Not in my books.  The guy who changed the game and raised the bar the most?  Certainly.  Much like Wayne Gretzky did for hockey (or Bobby Orr), Jordan did for basketball.  Babe Ruth could hit HR's, that's it.  The one wildcard about his status is that he would have been one hell of a pitcher as well, but didn't get to pursue that, he had some stellar numbers when he pitched for Boston before the trade.

In my humble opinion as much as it is difficult to determine the greatest of all time, I have to say Barry Bonds, Ted Williams, Lou Gehrig, Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle would be up there with the best of them.  Though Bonds will get an asterisk.

For pitchers, there are many,  Sandy Koufax, Roger Clemens, Nolan Ryan jump to mind.  

There will be a few of todays players who could reach the pinnacles some of these guys reached, it will require some championships and dominance though.  If the Yankees keep Stanton and lock up Harper next year, along with accepting a luxury tax and try and build that young, core youth of all stars, they could win a few championships over the next decade.  A big if of course, it's tough to dominate in baseball.


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 11, 2017)

Bruce_T_Laney said:


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Baseball-reference.com says 3..  THINK

Jack Morris Stats  | Baseball-Reference.com


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 11, 2017)

shockedcanadian said:


> In my humble opinion as much as it is difficult to determine the greatest of all time, I have to say Barry Bonds, Ted Williams, Lou Gehrig, Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle would be up there with the best of them.  Though Bonds will get an asterisk.
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> For pitchers, there are many,  Sandy Koufax, Roger Clemens, Nolan Ryan jump to mind.



Koufax only had 5 good seasons - though those 5 were fantastic.   Ryan??  HAHAHA..   He was the anti-koufax.  Very long career but no really good years.  He never won a CY and never deserved to win one. I think it was tony larussa who called nolan "the most exciting mediocre pitcher in baseball".

Clemens was truly great, maybe the greatest of all.


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 11, 2017)

shockedcanadian said:


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Baseball already was america's game at the time since it was pretty much the only pro sport america had.  Boxing was fairly big at the time but football and basketball didn't take off till around 1960.


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## Bruce_T_Laney (Dec 11, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


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As I said again read the damn article you posted!

Why argue with me when the article you posted was wrong!

Maybe you should correct the article because that was what I was going off of!

So you should think first and correct your damn op!


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 11, 2017)

Bruce_T_Laney said:


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Next time get your facts straight FIRST, and then make your post.  THINK, hater.


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## Bruce_T_Laney (Dec 11, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


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Well then post something with the correct information!

Seeing you can not admit you posted the article that stated four rings is not my damn problem!

Maybe you should proof read what you post to make sure the article you are using is correct and if not then do not use it or correct it because it shows you are the bigger moron here!


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## DGS49 (Dec 13, 2017)

You have to evaluate players according to the era in which they played.  Ruth only hit home runs?  Are you a fucking moron? Lifetime batting average over .340!

The HOF means less and less over time.  Players who were pretty good are elected all the time.

Nolan Ryan was much better than his numbers.  He had a tremendous effect on every game he started.  He invariably faced the Ace of the opposing team, and his teammates batted squat behind him.  He pitched 7 no-hitters and a thousand one-hitters because he needed to; his teammates just didn't score for him.

Not to mention, he was one of the classiest guys every to play MLB.

Bonds had the best years EVER, steroids or no.  He hit all those home runs while the opposing pitchers refused to throw anything over the plate!  They were petrified of him.  And regardless of the excess muscularity resulting from his use of "substances" you still have to put the bat on the ball.  Keeping him out is a disgrace.  One of the best ever, even if he was a jerk.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 16, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


> Trammell is ok but morris had a good w-l record and not much else.
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uh Trammel was one of the very best shortstop ever.His induction is LONG overdue.Its a travesty of justice that Lou Whitikar wasnt inducted as well.Trammel and Whitikar were the best double play combination in the sport. Its not only a travesty of justice it took so long for Trammel to be inducted its also a travesy that Whitikar was not included with him and Morris.


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 16, 2017)

DGS49 said:


> Nolan Ryan was much better than his numbers.  He had a tremendous effect on every game he started.  He invariably faced the Ace of the opposing team, and his teammates batted squat behind him.  He pitched 7 no-hitters and a thousand one-hitters because he needed to; his teammates just didn't score for him.
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> Bonds had the best years EVER, steroids or no.  He hit all those home runs while the opposing pitchers refused to throw anything over the plate!  They were petrified of him.  And regardless of the excess muscularity resulting from his use of "substances" you still have to put the bat on the ball.  Keeping him out is a disgrace.  One of the best ever, even if he was a jerk.



Ryan's career era as a percent of league era is just so-so.  The idea that he pitched great but had no offensive support is a myth. He never was great and is just a marginal HOFer.

As for Bonds, part of the reason pitchers walked him so much is because he lost his great speed after he bulked up.  I do think he belongs in the HOF since he didn't need steroids to get there.  He was sensational when he weighed 190.  Guys like sosa and mcgwire had HOF stats BECAUSE they were juiced and i'd say keep them out.


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 16, 2017)

LA RAM FAN said:


> uh Trammel was one of the very best shortstop ever.His induction is LONG overdue.Its a travesty of justice that Lou Whitikar wasnt inducted as well.Trammel and Whitikar were the best double play combination in the sport. Its not only a travesty of justice it took so long for Trammel to be inducted its also a travesy that Whitikar was not included with him and Morris.




Whitaker was a great fielder and a pretty good hitter.  His stats are HOF.  Bear in mind though that it's called the Hall of FAME and whit wasn't that famous or highly regarded in his day.  He came in 8th in MVP voting  in 1983 and that was the ONLY year he got any MVP votes.!!!

The only year he was listed on the HOF he got 3%.


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## Lewdog (Dec 16, 2017)

It's bullshit.  Dave Concepcion was the best short stop of the astro-turf generation, and even invented the skip throw to first base.  9 time All-star, 5 Gold Gloves, part of the best team of All-time The Big Red Machine.  He should be in the Hall before Trammel.


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 16, 2017)

Lewdog said:


> It's bullshit.  Dave Concepcion was the best short stop of the astro-turf generation, and even invented the skip throw to first base.  9 time All-star, 5 Gold Gloves, part of the best team of All-time The Big Red Machine.  He should be in the Hall before Trammel.



Concepcion was better on defense but he was a weak hitter while trammell  and whit were good (not great) hitters.


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## Lewdog (Dec 16, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


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> > It's bullshit.  Dave Concepcion was the best short stop of the astro-turf generation, and even invented the skip throw to first base.  9 time All-star, 5 Gold Gloves, part of the best team of All-time The Big Red Machine.  He should be in the Hall before Trammel.
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Trammell was a 3 time Silver Slugger winner, and Concepcion was a 2-time Silver Slugger winner.  Trammell had the benefit of playing in Detroit with a short deck, while Concepcion played in Riverfront which was not a great place for hitters with their high wall at the time.  Not to mention, later in his career, in the early to mid 80's, the Reds sucked.


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## Jarlaxle (Dec 17, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> If you elect Jack Morris ....why not Denny McClain and Mickey Lolich?


Are you stoned?


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## Jarlaxle (Dec 17, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


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Four.  1984 Tigers, 1991 Twins, 1992 and 1993 Blue Jays.  Also the 1991 World Series MVP.  His 1991 WS game 7 performance got him in the HoF.


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## Jarlaxle (Dec 17, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


> shockedcanadian said:
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> > In my humble opinion as much as it is difficult to determine the greatest of all time, I have to say Barry Bonds, Ted Williams, Lou Gehrig, Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle would be up there with the best of them.  Though Bonds will get an asterisk.
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Nolan Ryan was spectacularly good...despite playing on some TERRIBLE teams.    324 wins, 11x(!) strikeout leader, seven no-hitters, 5714 strikeouts. And...SEVEN FUCKING NO-HITTERS!

He won 40 games in 2 seasons on Angels teams that couldn't hit (16 losses with a 2.28 ERA in one season)...he set an AL record with 329 strikeouts in 1972, but it only stood for one season. (He struck out 383 the next year!)  At age 40, he had a 2.76 ERA and 270 strikeouts...but with an 8-16 record on a lousy Astros team.


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## Jarlaxle (Dec 17, 2017)

DGS49 said:


> You have to evaluate players according to the era in which they played.  Ruth only hit home runs?  Are you a fucking moron? Lifetime batting average over .340!
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Bonds cheated.  Period, end of story, nothing else matters.  The only disgrace is that no pitcher had the stones to put a 98MPH fastball between his eyes.


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2017)

DGS49 said:


> You have to evaluate players according to the era in which they played.  Ruth only hit home runs?  Are you a fucking moron? Lifetime batting average over .340!
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Bonds went from a guy who hit 38 HRs a year to a guy who hit 70
All because of steroids


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## shockedcanadian (Dec 17, 2017)

Jarlaxle said:


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In my estimation, in terms of being unhittable, Ryan was the best, he simply overpowered guys and did so for a very long time.  I saw a documentary and he had to retire because he injured himself after throwing his last fastball in his 40's and if I recall correctly his last pitch was 98 MPH, as a 46 year old!

If he had decided to be a Snowflake like players today, he could have had his pick of the litter and might have won some rings with the Yankees or Oakland or some other team  He broke a career SO record that had stood since 1927 and obliterated it in the end.  Simply my favourite pitcher, and I'm even happier that he's from Texas, the greatest state in the American union


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2017)

Jarlaxle said:


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Morris never had a season like Denny McClain.....few have


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## Jarlaxle (Dec 17, 2017)

Lewdog said:


> It's bullshit.  Dave Concepcion was the best short stop of the astro-turf generation, and even invented the skip throw to first base.  9 time All-star, 5 Gold Gloves, part of the best team of All-time The Big Red Machine.  He should be in the Hall before Trammel.


Not even close.  Best shortstop on turf was Ozzie Smith.  Period, full stop.  Ozzie had 13 *consecutive* Gold Gloves (every year 1980-92), and was a 15x All-Star (1981-92 and 1994-96).


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## gipper (Dec 17, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> If you elect Jack Morris ....why not Denny McClain and Mickey Lolich?


Okay by me.

However it is too late for both and Denny would never get in, after all his shenanigans.  

Lolich was great...and had a very long effective career.  He did eat too many donuts.


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## Jarlaxle (Dec 17, 2017)

shockedcanadian said:


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98MPH, age 46, with a torn ligament in his shoulder.


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2017)

gipper said:


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Lolich won 3 games in the 1968 World Series and beat Bob Gibson coming off the finest year in pitching history in game 7


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## gipper (Dec 17, 2017)

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Lolich won three games in the 1968 World Series.  All complete games.  This has not been done by many.  He beat the unbeatable Bob Gibson in game 7.

He won 14 or more games for 10 consecutive seasons....nearly all complete games.  200 or more strike outs seven times...fourth among all left handers.

He deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.


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## gipper (Dec 17, 2017)

gipper said:


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Sadly...had Lolich pitched for the Yankees, he would have been a first ballot inductee.


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2017)

gipper said:


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I remember that series.
Denny McClain, after winning 31 games was ineffective
The Cards went up 3-1 and saved Bob Gibson for game seven if they needed him. Lolich had pitched a complete game five and came back on short rest to beat Gibson in game seven


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## gipper (Dec 17, 2017)

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I remember it well having grown up in Detroit.  It was a great series.  Willie Horton threw out Lou Brock at the plate to give the tigers a win in Detroit.


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 17, 2017)

Jarlaxle said:


> Nolan Ryan was spectacularly good...despite playing on some TERRIBLE teams.    324 wins, 11x(!) strikeout leader, seven no-hitters, 5714 strikeouts. And...SEVEN FUCKING NO-HITTERS!
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> He won 40 games in 2 seasons on Angels teams that couldn't hit (16 losses with a 2.28 ERA in one season)...he set an AL record with 329 strikeouts in 1972, but it only stood for one season. (He struck out 383 the next year!)  At age 40, he had a 2.76 ERA and 270 strikeouts...but with an 8-16 record on a lousy Astros team.



Nolan played on average, not terrible,  teams for his career.  His career w-l was only 52% which is mediocre for a guy whose teams were about 50%.

He also had 292 losses which is the MOST for any pitcher who spent his whole career after 1900

All-time k leader.  But also all-time bb leader.

Who cares about no-hitters?.  The idea is to win games for your team and a 3 hit shutout is just as good as a no-hitter.

Ryan's era percentage was about 90% of the league average for his time.   Good but far from great.

RYAN WAS WAY OVER-RATED.


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 17, 2017)

Jarlaxle said:


> Bonds cheated.  Period, end of story, nothing else matters.  The only disgrace is that no pitcher had the stones to put a 98MPH fastball between his eyes.



Gaylord Perry is the biggest cheater in the history of sports and he's in the HOF.


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 17, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Bonds went from a guy who hit 38 HRs a year to a guy who hit 70
> All because of steroids



Bonds would have had a greater career if he had stayed under 200 pounds.  The roids made him stronger but the added bulk took away his fantastic speed.


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


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Bonds went from being a great athlete to a freak
His head grew bizarly and his proportions were awkward

Poster boy for why you should stay away from steroids


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 17, 2017)

[QUOTE="rightwinger, post: 18844289, member: 20321"
Bonds went from being a great athlete to a freak
His head grew bizarly and his proportions were awkward
Poster boy for why you should stay away from steroids[/QUOTE]

Yes bonds was fantastic before steroids.  The best hitter in baseball and the best LF of all time and a great baserunner.  The steroids made him stronger but not a better player.


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## sealybobo (Dec 17, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


> Trammell is ok but morris had a good w-l record and not much else.
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Morris won World Series with Detroit and Toronto. What about sweet lou?  He’s next


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## sealybobo (Dec 17, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> If you elect Jack Morris ....why not Denny McClain and Mickey Lolich?


They only won one


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## sealybobo (Dec 17, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


> [QUOTE="rightwinger, post: 18844289, member: 20321"
> Bonds went from being a great athlete to a freak
> His head grew bizarly and his proportions were awkward
> Poster boy for why you should stay away from steroids



Yes bonds was fantastic before steroids.  The best hitter in baseball and the best LF of all time and a great baserunner.  The steroids made him stronger but not a better player.[/QUOTE]
Ken Griffey jr was good too


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## sealybobo (Dec 17, 2017)

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When’s the next wilt chamberlain going to be born? Or Gretzky


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## Synthaholic (Dec 17, 2017)

Trammel perhaps, but Jack Morris doesn't have HoF credentials, no matter how generous you are.

The fact that Marvin Miller was again denied is a farce.  And purely vindictive.

The biggest omission is Mike Mussina, who is far superior to Morris.

Open these two pages an flip back and forth.  You tell me.

Mike Mussina Stats  | Baseball-Reference.com

Jack Morris Stats  | Baseball-Reference.com


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## sealybobo (Dec 17, 2017)

DGS49 said:


> You have to evaluate players according to the era in which they played.  Ruth only hit home runs?  Are you a fucking moron? Lifetime batting average over .340!
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Pete rose too


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## Synthaholic (Dec 17, 2017)

Trevor Hoffman should have been voted in, also.  In the 600+ Saves category it's just him and Mariano.  There are no 500+ Save pitchers. Third is Lee Smith with 478.


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## Lewdog (Dec 17, 2017)

Jarlaxle said:


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> > It's bullshit.  Dave Concepcion was the best short stop of the astro-turf generation, and even invented the skip throw to first base.  9 time All-star, 5 Gold Gloves, part of the best team of All-time The Big Red Machine.  He should be in the Hall before Trammel.
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Ozzie Smith got more attention because the Cardinals were a better team during his period...  MLB is huge on players getting more credit when they are on better teams.


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## shockedcanadian (Dec 17, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


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McGwire and Bonds used to extend their careers, keep them near their peak while aging.  People forget McGwire hit 49HR's as a rookie.  

Well the walks to Bonds were thoroughly about respect, I don't know what his slugging % was, but even with his bulk and reduced speed he could trot into second just as easily if he didn't hit a HR.


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## Lewdog (Dec 17, 2017)

sealybobo said:


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Ken Griffey jr was good too[/QUOTE]


Griffey NEVER took steroids.


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## shockedcanadian (Dec 17, 2017)

Jarlaxle said:


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Plus sometimes those defining career moments that resonate with the game outshine and cast a long shadow.  For Morris it was his game 7 performance in which he refused (imagine trying to do that in todays game?) a reliever and won a 1-0 extra inning game against Atlanta.  If you can do a couple of those things in your career, it is worth at extra all-star year.  Fairly or not.


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## Synthaholic (Dec 17, 2017)

DGS49 said:


> Bonds had the best years EVER, steroids or no. He hit all those home runs while the opposing pitchers refused to throw anything over the plate! They were petrified of him. And regardless of the excess muscularity resulting from his use of "substances" you still have to put the bat on the ball. Keeping him out is a disgrace. One of the best ever, even if he was a jerk.


What bullshit.  Bonds was allowed to come to the plate in a suit of armor, taking away the effectiveness of the inside brush-back pitch.  So he leaned over the plate, enabling him to hit outside pitches he never would have reached.  And MLB let him get away with it because he was hitting homers at an unprecedented rate.


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## Jarlaxle (Dec 17, 2017)

shockedcanadian said:


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McGwire was juicing as a rookie.


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## Jarlaxle (Dec 17, 2017)

Synthaholic said:


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Anyone can wear the same protective padding.  Too bad nobody put a 98MPH fastball between his eyes.


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2017)

sealybobo said:


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Ken Griffey jr was good too[/QUOTE]
Griffey did it without the juice


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2017)

Synthaholic said:


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You should be able to wear whatever "armor" you want


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## Lewdog (Dec 17, 2017)

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I remember back in the early 90's it was a big deal because guys like Galaraga, Bagwell, and Biggio were wearing those shin guards.


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2017)

Lewdog said:


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With 100 mph fastballs, you should wear whatever protection you are comfortable with


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 17, 2017)

Synthaholic said:


> The biggest omission is Mike Mussina, who is far superior to Morris.



Moose was pretty good and i think he'll make it this time or maybe next.


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 17, 2017)

Synthaholic said:


> Trevor Hoffman should have been voted in, also.  In the 600+ Saves category it's just him and Mariano.  There are no 500+ Save pitchers. Third is Lee Smith with 478.



Relief pitchers do NOT belong in the HOF.  I make an exception for wilhelm and mariano but sutter and gossage should have been left out.

Saves are a joke stat.  Even worse than batting average.


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 17, 2017)

shockedcanadian said:


> McGwire and Bonds used to extend their careers, keep them near their peak while aging.  People forget McGwire hit 49HR's as a rookie.
> 
> Well the walks to Bonds were thoroughly about respect, I don't know what his slugging % was, but even with his bulk and reduced speed he could trot into second just as easily if he didn't hit a HR.



But  Bonds didn't need to extend his career to make the HOF.  He could have retired at 33 and made it. Not so with Mac.  Even with the roids he had a short career.  Only 1600 hits.

And the huge number of walks Bonds got were PARTLY about respect for his power and partly about the fact that he didn't run that well anymore.


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 17, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Griffey did it without the juice



We don't know for sure but that's probably true.  Griff never turned into a gorilla like the juicers.


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## Lewdog (Dec 17, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Trevor Hoffman should have been voted in, also.  In the 600+ Saves category it's just him and Mariano.  There are no 500+ Save pitchers. Third is Lee Smith with 478.
> ...




Bullshit.  John Franco deserves to be in hall.  Only bad thing is he will go in as a Met not a Red.


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## rightwinger (Dec 17, 2017)

Lewdog said:


> ShootSpeeders said:
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> 
> > Synthaholic said:
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I'm a Met fan

I'd rather see Tugg McGraw, Jesse Orosco before Franco
None belong in the Hall


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## Lewdog (Dec 17, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Lewdog said:
> 
> 
> > ShootSpeeders said:
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BBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!  Good day sir!  Good day!


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## Jarlaxle (Dec 17, 2017)

Lewdog said:


> rightwinger said:
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> > Synthaholic said:
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The shin guards are not for pitches...they are to protect the shin and foot from foul balls.


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## Jarlaxle (Dec 17, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Trevor Hoffman should have been voted in, also.  In the 600+ Saves category it's just him and Mariano.  There are no 500+ Save pitchers. Third is Lee Smith with 478.
> ...


Urine idiot.


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## Lewdog (Dec 17, 2017)

Jarlaxle said:


> Lewdog said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
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Yeah I know that... it happens a lot for guys that like to pull the ball.  I used to kill me shin and foot all the time.  I damn near broke my foot once.


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## Jarlaxle (Dec 17, 2017)

Dustin Pedroia DID break his foot with a foul ball in 2010...and missed more than half the season.


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 17, 2017)

Lewdog said:


> Bullshit.  John Franco deserves to be in hall.  Only bad thing is he will go in as a Met not a Red.



For a relief pitcher to make the Hall he has to be super - like mariano.  Franco was merely pretty good. He got CY votes in only ONE year and that year he was 7th.  I say no way.


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 17, 2017)

Sutter made the HOF with only 1000 innings for his career.  An everyday player has around 1400 innings every year!  Sutter's whole career was essentially just 2/3 of a season.  That's pathetic.


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## Lewdog (Dec 17, 2017)

Jarlaxle said:


> Dustin Pedroia DID break his foot with a foul ball in 2010...and missed more than half the season.



Jermaine Dye broke his leg...

A'S DYE BREAKS LEG ON HARD FOUL BALL

It can be nasty.  I was in the batting cage one day, and I don't know what the problem was, but after the third one off the inside of my foot... I said fuck it and was done for the day.


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## Lewdog (Dec 17, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


> Sutter made the HOF with only 1000 innings for his career.  An everyday player has around 1400 innings every year!  Sutter's whole career was essentially just 2/3 of a season.  That's pathetic.



He won a Cy Young as a relief pitcher, and doesn't he hold the record for most saves of 2+ innings?  He got saves before it became a one inning or less thing.


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## Lewdog (Dec 17, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


> Lewdog said:
> 
> 
> > Bullshit.  John Franco deserves to be in hall.  Only bad thing is he will go in as a Met not a Red.
> ...



Franco played 21 years in the majors and is 5th all time in saves with a career ERA under 3.


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## Synthaholic (Dec 17, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > DGS49 said:
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No, they should have nothing except the uniform.  Pitchers should definitely be banned from wearing jewelry, especially those chains that distract and reflect light. A wedding ring should be the only exception, just to avoid another hissy-fit FoxNews segment.


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## Synthaholic (Dec 17, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Lewdog said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
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No, you should have the reflexes to get out of the way.  

"Baseball ain't no pink tea" - Ty Cobb


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 17, 2017)

Lewdog said:


> Franco played 21 years in the majors and is 5th all time in saves with a career ERA under 3.



Saves  are idiotic.  The worst of all the common stats. Franco did have  a great ERA though.


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## Synthaholic (Dec 17, 2017)

Lewdog said:


> ShootSpeeders said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
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His stats are not as good as some other relievers.  He has a really low WAR.

John Franco Stats  | Baseball-Reference.com


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## Synthaholic (Dec 17, 2017)

Jarlaxle said:


> Lewdog said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
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Maybe they should just grow some balls.


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## GHook93 (Dec 17, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


> Trammell is ok but morris had a good w-l record and not much else.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Morris’s sub-4 era, 4 rings and most impressive 175 complete games!

Trammell was a steady producer at SS and a clutch player, his induction was well deserved.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## Jarlaxle (Dec 17, 2017)

Synthaholic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Lewdog said:
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Nobody does.


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## Jarlaxle (Dec 17, 2017)

Synthaholic said:


> Jarlaxle said:
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> 
> > Lewdog said:
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Stop trolling, dumbass.


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## Lewdog (Dec 17, 2017)

Synthaholic said:


> Lewdog said:
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> 
> > ShootSpeeders said:
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That can be... an illusion with Franco.  He spent a lot of years in the mid 80's playing for Reds teams that weren't worth a shit.  I mean until the Reds had their break out year in 1990... with the Bad Boys in the bullpen, they really weren't that good, and in 1990 Franco was with the Mets.


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 17, 2017)

Synthaholic said:


> His stats are not as good as some other relievers.  He has a really low WAR.



Almost all RPs have a low war - as to be expected since they pitch so little. Even mariano's WAR is just 57.  That's super for an RP but most HOF players are around 70.


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## Lewdog (Dec 17, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > His stats are not as good as some other relievers.  He has a really low WAR.
> ...




Franco was a lefty.


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## Synthaholic (Dec 17, 2017)

GHook93 said:


> and most impressive 175 complete games!


That _is _impressive.


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## Synthaholic (Dec 17, 2017)

Jarlaxle said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


You're crazy.  They do it all season long.


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 18, 2017)

Lewdog said:


> ShootSpeeders said:
> 
> 
> > Almost all RPs have a low war - as to be expected since they pitch so little. Even mariano's WAR is just 57.  That's super for an RP but most HOF players are around 70.
> ...



HAHAHA.  Hey einstein.  RP means relief pitcher  The acronym for a right handed pitcher is RHP.

Your stupidity is off the charts.


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## Lewdog (Dec 18, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


> Lewdog said:
> 
> 
> > ShootSpeeders said:
> ...



No I've seen people say RP for righthand pitcher too.  Why would you watch baseball anyway?  Isn't there too many minority players?


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 18, 2017)

GHook93 said:


> Morris’s sub-4 era, 4 rings and most impressive 175 complete games!



Complete games don't mean much anymore.  And his ERA was just slightly better than the league ERA at that time. And he had 3 WS rings, not 4.

He's not a terrible choice like sutter and gossage were, but he is borderline.


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## Lewdog (Dec 18, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > Morris’s sub-4 era, 4 rings and most impressive 175 complete games!
> ...



Really?  IP's is a big deal these days as lots of pitchers get shut down so not to damage their arm.  Very few guys are innings eaters that throw CG anymore.


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## ShootSpeeders (Dec 18, 2017)

Lewdog said:


> ShootSpeeders said:
> 
> 
> > HAHAHA.  Hey einstein.  RP means relief pitcher  The acronym for a right handed pitcher is RHP.
> ...



I haven't seen a BB game in decades.  Not on TV or at the stadium.  Anyway - RP means relief pitcher .THINK


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## Lewdog (Dec 18, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


> Lewdog said:
> 
> 
> > ShootSpeeders said:
> ...



Thanks for letting us know upfront your opinion on the game for past players to today is worthless... because you don't watch the games.  THINK!


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## Lewdog (Dec 18, 2017)

ShootSpeeders  tipping her pitches.


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## Jarlaxle (Dec 18, 2017)

ShootSpeeders said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > Morris’s sub-4 era, 4 rings and most impressive 175 complete games!
> ...


Wrong again: Morris had FOUR World Series rings.


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