# aliens don't exist



## Domino (Aug 19, 2021)

1. the path to the planet on which intelligent life is possible about 5 million light years.
2.according to modern classical physics of Einstein
- the speed of light is limited and the time depends on the speed of movement
- a "hole in space" is theoretically possible, but time depends on speed and gravity

3 ... Imagine
Someone creates a hole in space
astronauts jump into this hole and get to the planet instantly .. But the planet is 5 million light years away.
They smoke cigarettes for 3 minutes and immediately return to Earth.

============
How long will it take?
1. For astronauts 3 minutes
2. For the inhabitants of the Earth = 5 million years + 5 million years + 3 minutes
about 10 million years.

=======
now let's imagine that aliens want to conquer the Earth, they are located 5 million light years from Earth ...
their troops will return to their planet in 10 million years. Their civilization will disappear.

aliens don't exist


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## Godboy (Aug 19, 2021)

Domino said:


> 1. the path to the planet on which intelligent life is possible about 5 million light years.
> 2.according to modern classical physics of Einstein
> - the speed of light is limited and the time depends on the speed of movement
> - a "hole in space" is theoretically possible, but time depends on speed and gravity
> ...


If they did this theoretical folding of space and "go through a hole", they could fold it there and back, and time on earth would remain in sync with these astronauts.

Aliens exist, but i doubt they have ever been here.


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## yidnar (Aug 19, 2021)

Domino said:


> 1. the path to the planet on which intelligent life is possible about 5 million light years.
> 2.according to modern classical physics of Einstein
> - the speed of light is limited and the time depends on the speed of movement
> - a "hole in space" is theoretically possible, but time depends on speed and gravity
> ...


there maybe someone on a distant planet that thinks like you do ...aliens dont exist .... we are here they are there but each side says aliens dont exist ...  does the fact that you exist even give you pause to consider someone far away on another planet exists ... and when it comes to space travel weve only been airborne a little over a hundred yrs ... what if said aliens have been airborn for 10s of thousands of yrs ?


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## yidnar (Aug 19, 2021)

Godboy said:


> If they did this theoretical folding of space and "go through a hole", they could fold it there and back, and time on earth would remain in sync with these astronauts.
> 
> Aliens exist, but i doubt they have ever been here.


the military has reported UAPs thats not even in dispute ...


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## Canon Shooter (Aug 19, 2021)

Domino said:


> 1. the path to the planet on which intelligent life is possible about 5 million light years.
> 2.according to modern classical physics of Einstein
> - the speed of light is limited and the time depends on the speed of movement
> - a "hole in space" is theoretically possible, but time depends on speed and gravity
> ...



While all of that makes sense, the problem is that, when you're discussing space travel and, in a sense, time travel, and you couple that with the fact that the ones doing the traveling are from some distant galaxy, the rule book goes out the window. If there's another civilization out there, we have exactly zero understanding what their capabilities are. 

A light year to us might be 20 minutes to them.

Albert Einstein, while widely regarded as one of the most intelligent men to ever live, might be considered to be mentally retarded by them.

It's fun to talk about but, until one of them shows up to set us straight, it's just as likely as not that aliens exist...


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## TNHarley (Aug 19, 2021)

Domino said:


> 1. the path to the planet on which intelligent life is possible about 5 million light years.
> 2.according to modern classical physics of Einstein
> - the speed of light is limited and the time depends on the speed of movement
> - a "hole in space" is theoretically possible, but time depends on speed and gravity
> ...


I dont understand why you think that proves aliens dont exist.


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## Domino (Aug 19, 2021)

Canon Shooter said:


> While all of that makes sense, the problem is that, when you're discussing space travel and, in a sense, time travel, and you couple that with the fact that the ones doing the traveling are from some distant galaxy, the rule book goes out the window. If there's another civilization out there, we have exactly zero understanding what their capabilities are.
> 
> A light year to us might be 20 minutes to them.
> 
> ...


I understand what you mean.
from the point of view of Physics, this means that Time for aliens flows in a different way ....
but..
then 5 million years on Earth means one moment for aliens.
all earthlings will die before the aliens get to earth

aliens don't exist


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## Godboy (Aug 19, 2021)

yidnar said:


> the military has reported UAPs thats not even in dispute ...


What does that have to do with aliens?


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## Quasar44 (Aug 19, 2021)

Domino 
The speed of light is not limited !!!
It’s only limited to us and our understanding 

A very advanced race can manipulate worm holes and go anywhere


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## Quasar44 (Aug 19, 2021)

Humans are only 200,000 yrs old and real science has only occurred the last 300 years 

Just imagine a race that is 2 million yrs old 
 Yikes


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## skye (Aug 19, 2021)

Quasar44 said:


> Humans are only 200,000 yrs old and real science has only occurred the last 300 years
> 
> Just imagine a race that is 2 million yrs old
> Yikes



Humans are possibly millions of years old.

May be cataclysms have destroyed civilizations that were much advanced than ours ... that possessed  a  much higher technology than ours ....

Who knows....

290 million years ....Yes sir.





__





						The Ancient Code -
					






					www.ancient-code.com


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## skye (Aug 19, 2021)

Domino said:


> 1. the path to the planet on which intelligent life is possible about 5 million light years.
> 2.according to modern classical physics of Einstein
> - the speed of light is limited and the time depends on the speed of movement
> - a "hole in space" is theoretically possible, but time depends on speed and gravity
> ...




I would not say that in such a categorical way.

You don't know and I don't know.

That doesn't mean there is not life out there.


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## JohnDB (Aug 19, 2021)

You can only go forward in time... never backwards.


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## toobfreak (Aug 19, 2021)

Domino said:


> 1. the path to the planet on which intelligent life is possible about 5 million light years.
> 2.according to modern classical physics of Einstein
> - the speed of light is limited and the time depends on the speed of movement
> - a "hole in space" is theoretically possible, but time depends on speed and gravity
> ...



WRONG, Ace.  I wouldn't examine that math of yours too closely.


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## MisterBeale (Aug 19, 2021)

JohnDB said:


> You can only go forward in time... never backwards.


What makes you so positive?

Is that because this is what we understand about the laws of physics, so you have decided this?


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## toobfreak (Aug 19, 2021)

MisterBeale said:


> What makes you so positive? Is that because this is what we understand about the laws of physics, so you have decided this?



All these people's heads are stuck thinking conventionally of conventional time and space AS WE SEE IT, as if there were no other levels to reality.


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## skye (Aug 19, 2021)

We live in an Infinite Universe.

Enough said.


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## MisterBeale (Aug 19, 2021)

toobfreak said:


> All these people's heads are stuck thinking conventionally of conventional time and space AS WE SEE IT, as if there were no other levels to reality.


Yeah, I noticed the OP was talking about space travel. . . then talked about the aliens getting back to their home planet, it would be 10 million years later. . .

. . . and I'm like, why don't they just travel back in time then?     Surely if they have the tech to travel through wormholes they can manage a simple thing like time travel back and forth.











						Scientists suggest spacetime has no time dimension
					

(PhysOrg.com) -- The concept of time as a way to measure the duration of events is not only deeply intuitive, it also plays an important role in our mathematical descriptions of physical systems. For instance, we define an objects speed as its displacement per a given time. But some researchers...




					phys.org


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## JohnDB (Aug 19, 2021)

MisterBeale said:


> What makes you so positive?
> 
> Is that because this is what we understand about the laws of physics, so you have decided this?


Energy is needed to travel in space. Currently we do this with the expulsion of hot gasses. (Hydrogen and oxygen fuel) 

We will need a new technology to go faster than what we currently have... diminishing returns after a while. 

Currently not even nuclear fission or fusion can expel hot gasses fast enough to get us to a significant portion of light speed in space. Those technologies might have more bang with a smaller amount of mass...but they still are insufficient to propel a person at one gravity for very long. (Might get a week instead of the requisite 2+years to achieve a significant portion) And a larger fusion reaction won't help. Some other means needs to be discovered. Space is a weightless vacuum after all. 

Meaning that the energy requirements are about equal to a star.  

And our sun is, relatively speaking, a huge beach ball next to a BB from a pellet gun standing in for Earth. 
So the chances of interstellar travel happening for anyone are slim to none.
We would blow up the planet playing with such things long before we actually harnessed it effectively.


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## MisterBeale (Aug 19, 2021)

JohnDB said:


> Energy is needed to travel in space. Currently we do this with the expulsion of hot gasses. (Hydrogen and oxygen fuel)
> 
> We will need a new technology to go faster than what we currently have... diminishing returns after a while.
> 
> ...


So. . . b/c YOU can't come up with the answers, no one else in the galaxy could have possibly done it.

My, look at the hubris on you boy!


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## LA RAM FAN (Aug 19, 2021)

Godboy said:


> If they did this theoretical folding of space and "go through a hole", they could fold it there and back, and time on earth would remain in sync with these astronauts.
> 
> Aliens exist, but i doubt they have ever been here.


Then you are clueless about the Roswell incident  then,if you were not,you would,know about the whistleblowers thst exposed them.


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## JohnDB (Aug 19, 2021)

MisterBeale said:


> So. . . b/c YOU can't come up with the answers, no one else in the galaxy could have possibly done it.
> 
> My, look at the hubris on you boy!


We have a hard enough time trying to keep lithium ion batteries from catching fire or our nuclear reactors from having meltdowns. 
The radioactive mess leftover from developing the first atomic bombs is still causing issues today. 

You can have limitless faith in science...I do have some but just not that much.


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## dblack (Aug 19, 2021)

Domino said:


> 1. the path to the planet on which intelligent life is possible about 5 million light years.
> 2.according to modern classical physics of Einstein
> - the speed of light is limited and the time depends on the speed of movement
> - a "hole in space" is theoretically possible, but time depends on speed and gravity
> ...


The return of Time Cube!


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## MisterBeale (Aug 19, 2021)

JohnDB said:


> We have a hard enough time trying to keep lithium ion batteries from catching fire or our nuclear reactors from having meltdowns.
> The radioactive mess leftover from developing the first atomic bombs is still causing issues today.
> 
> You can have limitless faith in science...I do have some but just not that much.


Perhaps the extra-dimensional beings use more than just "science?"

. . eh?  wot wot?


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## Quasar44 (Aug 19, 2021)

skye 
Zero evidence of that 
Humans are only 200,000 or so 
Modern science is only 300 yrs


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## alang1216 (Aug 20, 2021)

Domino said:


> 1. the path to the planet on which intelligent life is possible about 5 million light years.
> 2.according to modern classical physics of Einstein
> - the speed of light is limited and the time depends on the speed of movement
> - a "hole in space" is theoretically possible, but time depends on speed and gravity
> ...


I don't know that we'll ever fold space but I do believe in very advanced ETs.  Further, I believe they travel between the stars en mass, a population large enough that they take their civilization with them, wherever they go.  When they reach a new planet some remain to build a new permanent colony while the rest continue their journey.  I also believe Earth is one of their colonies.


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## LA RAM FAN (Aug 20, 2021)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Then you are clueless about the Roswell incident  then,if you were not,you would,know about the whistleblowers thst exposed them.


The fact Langley shill alang is trying to laugh off these facts proves it is correct.


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## buttercup (Aug 21, 2021)

As I always say each time this topic comes up… aliens exist, they're just not what people think they are.

Even many of the top researchers in this field concluded that "aliens" are interdimensional beings, not extraterrestrial.

As for what those interdimensional beings are, that's a different topic.


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## Quasar44 (Aug 21, 2021)

Hundreds of billions  of planets and moons  ??
 They exist in many places


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## DELETED ACCOUNT (Aug 21, 2021)

yes they do the government already spoke about this they're no longer denying this


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## Unkotare (Aug 21, 2021)

Quasar44 said:


> Hundreds of billions  of planets and moons  ??
> They exist in many places


Prove it.


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## james bond (Aug 21, 2021)

MisterBeale said:


> What makes you so positive?
> 
> Is that because this is what we understand about the laws of physics, so you have decided this?


Traveling back in time is based on the idea that our past could still remain as light waves somewhere out there in our expanding universe.  If one could go faster than the speed of light, then one could go back and catch up to the past.


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## percysunshine (Aug 21, 2021)

Domino said:


> 1. the path to the planet on which intelligent life is possible about 5 million light years.
> 2.according to modern classical physics of Einstein
> - the speed of light is limited and the time depends on the speed of movement
> - a "hole in space" is theoretically possible, but time depends on speed and gravity
> ...



It is impossible for me to walk from San Diego to Hawaii.

That fact does not mean nobody lives on the Hawaiian islands.


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## MisterBeale (Aug 21, 2021)

IMO?

This forum is enough proof of alien life. . .


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## Domino (Aug 22, 2021)

toobfreak said:


> WRONG, Ace.  I wouldn't examine that math of yours too closely.


you don't have enough education to argue with me ..
you graduated from the "Polytechnic Institute" in St. Petersburg, Russia ...
primitive education, but your language is too long, which Americans like. you are cheating...
-----
'Не могу держать без смеха сиськи телки политеха"


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## toobfreak (Aug 22, 2021)

Domino said:


> you don't have enough education to argue with me ..
> you graduated from the "Polytechnic Institute" in St. Petersburg, Russia ...
> primitive education, but your language is too long, which Americans like. you are cheating...



Yep.  No doubt about it.  You are Selivan through and through.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 23, 2021)

Domino said:


> you don't have enough education to argue with me


Your OP did not even argue aliens do not exist. Just a bunch of random, unrelated claims, followed by an assertion that aliens do not exist. I am not sure what institution of higher learning taught you that is an "argument", but you should ask for your money back.


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## Stryder50 (Aug 24, 2021)

Domino said:


> 1. the path to the planet on which intelligent life is possible about 5 million light years.
> 2.according to modern classical physics of Einstein
> - the speed of light is limited and the time depends on the speed of movement
> - a "hole in space" is theoretically possible, but time depends on speed and gravity
> ...


You must be using "New Math" of some mysterious sort.

You state the astronauts travel "instantly" through the "hole" (wormhole?) and only spend 3(three) minutes on that planet.  If this is so, then they are only gone for three minutes plus whatever microfraction of second(s) is takes to travel there and "immediately" return to Earth.

They are not gone 10+ million years.

I understand how many laypersons get confused by the concept of "light year" as it is both a distance and a speed with regard to how it is used.  In the example of your OP here, that star of the planet visited is 5 million Light years away and the light from it took five million years to reach here.  For reference;
...
The *light-year*, alternatively spelled *lightyear*, is a unit of length used to express astronomical distances and is equivalent to about 9.46 trillion kilometers (9.46×1012 km) or 5.88 trillion miles (5.88×1012 mi).[note 1] As defined by the International Astronomical Union (IAU), a light-year is the distance that light travels in vacuum in one Julian year (365.25 days).[2] Because it includes the word "year", the term light-year is sometimes misinterpreted as a unit of time.[3]

The light-year is most often used when expressing distances to stars and other distances on a galactic scale, especially in non-specialist contexts and popular science publications.[3] The unit most commonly used in professional astronomy is the parsec (symbol: pc, about 3.26 light-years) which derives from astrometry: it is the distance at which one astronomical unit subtends an angle of one second of arc.[2]
...








						Light-year - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now, for further reference, our galaxy - Milky Way - is about 100,000 lightyears in diameter;
...
Our Sun (a star) and all the planets around it are part of a galaxy known as the Milky Way Galaxy. A galaxy is a large group of stars, gas, and dust bound together by gravity. They come in a variety of shapes and sizes. The Milky Way is a large barred spiral galaxy. All the stars we see in the night sky are in our own Milky Way Galaxy. Our galaxy is called the Milky Way because it appears as a milky band of light in the sky when you see it in a really dark area.

It is very difficult to count the number of stars in the Milky Way from our position inside the galaxy. Our best estimates tell us that the Milky Way is made up of approximately 100 billion stars. These stars form a large disk whose diameter is about 100,000 light years. Our Solar System is about 25,000 light years away from the center of our galaxy – we live in the suburbs of our galaxy. Just as the Earth goes around the Sun, the Sun goes around the center of the Milky Way. It takes 250 million years for our Sun and the solar system to go all the way around the center of the Milky Way.
...





						Imagine the Universe!
					

This site is intended for students age 14 and up, and for anyone interested in learning about our universe.




					imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov
				



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Your example of a planet 5 million light years away is one who's star is in another galaxy also about five million lightyears away.  It's more probable to consider visiting one of the exoplanets to a star closer to home, in our own galaxy, which is less distant;
...
An *exoplanet* or *extrasolar planet* is a planet outside the Solar System. The first possible evidence of an exoplanet was noted in 1917, but was not recognized as such.[4] The first confirmation of detection occurred in 1992. This was followed by the confirmation of a different planet, originally detected in 1988. As of 1 August 2021, there are 4,801 confirmed exoplanets in 3,552 planetary systems, with 789 systems having more than one planet.[5]
...








						Exoplanet - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
These exoplanets are within our Milky Way galaxy and some might host life in one form or another.  They also are the more probable to explore since they are relatively close by us.
List of potentially habitable exoplanets​





						List of potentially habitable exoplanets - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Another challenge with such distant travel, whether it be a few lightyears away, or thousands, or millions, is that we are seeing light from that distant star showing where it was that many years ago.  In your example, where that star, and planet, were 5 million years ago.  The real challenge/problem is "where is that star and planet now?".  Likely they will have moved a bit relative to our view/perspective here at Sol/Earth, so how to accurately aim that "hole" to where you want your astronauts to go ???

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Final point of this post is that the bulk of material in your opening post(OP) has nothing to do with the case for, or against, the existence of "alien life", i.e. life on other worlds/planets.  You have neither proven nor dis proven the existence of such.

FWIW, more essential questions would be if there is life on exoplanets; have they developed intelligence, civilization, and star-faring(travel) capability?

And if so ...
Have extraterrestrial (ET) life been here, perhaps in distant past?
Might ET Life be here now?

You have however displayed the shortcomings of your grasp on basic sciences and basic mathematics, which in turn places the extent and competency of your schooling and education in question and possible low regard.


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## teodor88 (Aug 27, 2021)

I consider the chance is too high that some intelligent form of life exists somewhere in other galaxies. There are a lot of them and some of this galaxies may contain the planet like Earth.


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## Osiris-ODS (Aug 30, 2021)

MisterBeale said:


> What makes you so positive?
> 
> Is that because this is what we understand about the laws of physics, so you have decided this?



That line of thinking is based on the state of the universe being entropy. But one popular theory in modern physics that cuts against "one way time travel" is closed timelike curves.


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## sparky (Aug 30, 2021)

good lord,  small wonder why i have to be 1/2 in the bag to read here.......~S~


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## dblack (Aug 30, 2021)

sparky said:


> good lord,  small wonder why i have to be 1/2 in the bag to read here.......~S~


1/2?


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## frigidweirdo (Aug 30, 2021)

Domino said:


> 1. the path to the planet on which intelligent life is possible about 5 million light years.
> 2.according to modern classical physics of Einstein
> - the speed of light is limited and the time depends on the speed of movement
> - a "hole in space" is theoretically possible, but time depends on speed and gravity
> ...



Well, I think you don't mean "aliens don't exist" but "aliens are on Earth". 

There's evidence there is life around Venus. That's be alien life.


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## Osiris-ODS (Aug 30, 2021)

Quasar44 said:


> Domino
> The speed of light is not limited !!!
> It’s only limited to us and our understanding
> 
> A very advanced race can manipulate worm holes and go anywhere



Those are two different concepts. I'm not aware of any theory suggesting the speed of light can be exceeded. Except by the rate of expansion of space, which can expand faster than the speed of light (hence the "cosmic event horizon," defining the bounds of the "observable" universe)

 The other concept you mentioned -- an Einstein-Rosen bridge, aka "worm hole" -- does not contradict the speed of light being a constraint that cannot be exceeded. It's a bijection of the fabric of spacetime. While it could theoretically allow travel between two distant points in space in a much shorter time than could be accomplished with linear travel through space, you wouldn't actually be moving at a velocity faster than the speed of light.


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## Osiris-ODS (Aug 30, 2021)

skye said:


> Humans are possibly millions of years old.
> 
> May be cataclysms have destroyed civilizations that were much advanced than ours ... that possessed  a  much higher technology than ours ....
> 
> ...



That touches on one of the proposed modifications to the Drake equation, known as the "reappearance factor." It proposes that once an intelligent civilization develops on a planet, even if that civilization ends due to some cataclysmic event, as long as all life is not extinguished on the planet, then the possibility is present for another civilization to eventually emerge. It would depend on the cataclysm, of course. The conditions on earth after a "nuclear winter" would be temporary and eventually return to normal, as opposed to conditions caused by a change in the sun that renders the earth uninhabitable (sun becoming a red giant, etc).


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## Quasar44 (Aug 30, 2021)

Osiris-ODS 
New laws of physics may exist that we don’t know of


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## LuckyDuck (Sep 3, 2021)

Domino said:


> 1. the path to the planet on which intelligent life is possible about 5 million light years.
> 2.according to modern classical physics of Einstein
> - the speed of light is limited and the time depends on the speed of movement
> - a "hole in space" is theoretically possible, but time depends on speed and gravity
> ...


There remains no evidence reflecting that alien life doesn't exist on other planets, period.  The current estimate for the likelihood of habitable planets in our own galaxy is approximately 300 million and several within 30 light-years of our location.  As it is estimated that there are as many as 300 million in our own galaxy that may be habitable and the current estimate number of galaxies being 2 trillion, that is a vast number of planets that may harbor life and to disregard the strong possibility of life not only in the milky-way galaxy, but in the 2 trillion other galaxies, shows a complete separation from reality.


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## petro (Sep 4, 2021)

MisterBeale said:


> IMO?
> 
> This forum is enough proof of alien life. . .


That song is played in every interstellar bar.


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## james bond (Oct 3, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> Well, I think you don't mean "aliens don't exist" but "aliens are on Earth".
> 
> There's evidence there is life around Venus. That's be alien life.


What evidence around Venus?  Venus has too much harsh gases.

If there were aliens, then we would've found evidene of them by now.  Instead, we build a better telescope.


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## james bond (Oct 3, 2021)

If there's life elsewhere, then I'd explore Europa and other planets where it looks like where we could live.  Forget the other places.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 3, 2021)

james bond said:


> What evidence around Venus? Venus has too much harsh gases.


Maybe look it up...?


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## Likkmee (Oct 3, 2021)

Domino said:


> 1. the path to the planet on which intelligent life is possible about 5 million light years.
> 2.according to modern classical physics of Einstein
> - the speed of light is limited and the time depends on the speed of movement
> - a "hole in space" is theoretically possible, but time depends on speed and gravity
> ...


They're simply UNDOCUMENTED


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## james bond (Oct 3, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Maybe look it up...?








Here's what I found on you.  

The other I knew about you already.  You have no answers even if your life depended on it.


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## frigidweirdo (Oct 3, 2021)

james bond said:


> What evidence around Venus?  Venus has too much harsh gases.
> 
> If there were aliens, then we would've found evidene of them by now.  Instead, we build a better telescope.







__





						Did we find signs of alien life on Venus? Here’s what the experts say | BBC Science Focus Magazine
					

The detection of a potential 'biomarker' for life on Venus has sparked hesitation, excitement and hope in scientists.



					www.sciencefocus.com
				




"A paper released on Monday, 14 September, showed the detection of a mysterious molecule called phosphine in the clouds of Venus. Researchers say that molecule could be produced by living microbial cells."

Essentially the land surface is way too hot for life, probably, but the atmosphere might have life. 

It's not about telescopes. This life is almost certainly not as developed as humans. It's probably very low down on the development scale. But alien life is life that isn't from this planet.


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## james bond (Oct 3, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jeez.  If phosphine is a _real sign of life_, then it does make you wonder what kind of life can live in a harsh, harsh, harsh gaseous and chemical planet like that.  It's sci-fin that Venusians could live but I always thought it would be unrealistic.  If there were some kind of basic life there, then it would open up new heavenly bodies to explore.  Maybe our planet isn't that polluted and global warming is an acceptable way of life .


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## frigidweirdo (Oct 3, 2021)

james bond said:


> Jeez.  If phosphine is a _real sign of life_, then it does make you wonder what kind of life can live in a harsh, harsh, harsh gaseous and chemical planet like that.  It's sci-fin that Venusians could live but I always thought it would be unrealistic.  If there were some kind of basic life there, then it would open up new heavenly bodies to explore.  Maybe our planet isn't that polluted and global warming is an acceptable way of life .



Well, we know life can grow at the bottom of the oceans near sources of heat. 

Global warming is a natural phenomenon, if it gets warmer life will still live here, it lived here under the dinosaurs. What might not be possible is humans living here. Hence the problem.


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## Batcat (Oct 3, 2021)

Domino said:


> 1. the path to the planet on which intelligent life is possible about 5 million light years.
> 2.according to modern classical physics of Einstein
> - the speed of light is limited and the time depends on the speed of movement
> - a "hole in space" is theoretically possible, but time depends on speed and gravity
> ...


We always think we know more about science than we actually do. 

Based on our current knowledge of physics faster than light travel is impossible. However at one time many felt breaking the speed of sound was also impossible for a human. I believe our knowledge will continue to grow as centuries pass and we may discover what we believe is impossible today is actually quite feasible. 









						Hidden in Einstein's Math: Faster-than-Light Travel?
					

Two physicists have extended Einstein's special relativity equations for faster-than-light travel, although no one knows if it's possible to move faster than the speed of light.




					www.livescience.com
				




***snip***

_*Despite the singularity, Hill is not ready to accept that the speed of light is an insurmountable wall. He compared it to crossing the sound barrier. Before Chuck Yeager became the first person to travel faster than the speed of sound in 1947, many experts questioned whether it could be done. Scientists worried that the plane would disintegrate, or the human body wouldn't survive. Neither turned out to be true.* …emphasis added. 

Fears of crossing the light barrier may be similarly unfounded, Hill said.

"I think it's only a matter of time," he said. "Human ingenuity being what it is, it's going to happen, but maybe it will involve a transportation mechanism entirely different from anything presently envisaged."_









						Faster-Than-Light Travel is Possible, Theoretical Study Suggests | Sci.News
					

A new theoretical paper, published in the journal Classical and Quantum Gravity, reignites the debate about the possibility of superluminal (faster-than-light) travel based on conventional physics.




					www.sci-news.com


----------



## james bond (Oct 4, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> What might not be possible is humans living here. Hence the problem.


Humans could be living under an unbreakable dome above the pollution or under the sea below.  It could be in places our generations could not imagine living in.  Maybe we launch our garbage towards the sun.  Even then, it would be better than living on Mars, Venus, or Europa.


----------



## frigidweirdo (Oct 4, 2021)

james bond said:


> Humans could be living under an unbreakable dome above the pollution or under the sea below.  It could be in places our generations could not imagine living in.  Maybe we launch our garbage towards the sun.  Even then, it would be better than living on Mars, Venus, or Europa.



Potentially yes, we have the technology. 

However, the one thing humans are good at is fucking everything up.

We tell people to wear masks and they scream like petulant children. Can you imagine what they'd be like under a dome?


----------



## Otis Mayfield (Oct 4, 2021)

The *Fermi paradox*, named after Italian-American physicist Enrico Fermi, is the apparent contradiction between the lack of evidence for extraterrestrial life and various high estimates for their probability (such as some optimistic estimates for the Drake equation).[1][2]

The following are some of the facts and hypotheses that together serve to highlight the apparent contradiction:


There are billions of stars in the Milky Way similar to the Sun.[3][4]
With high probability, some of these stars have Earth-like planets in a circumstellar habitable zone.[5]
Many of these stars, and hence their planets, are much older than the Sun.[6][7] If the Earth is typical, some may have developed intelligent life long ago.
Some of these civilizations may have developed interstellar travel, a step humans are investigating now.
Even at the slow pace of currently envisioned interstellar travel, the Milky Way galaxy could be completely traversed in a few million years.[8]
And since many of the stars similar to the Sun are billions of years older, Earth should have already been visited by extraterrestrial civilizations, or at least their probes.[9]
However, there is no convincing evidence that this has happened.[8]





__





						Fermi paradox - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				






Maybe intelligent life is extremely rare. Wolf like and dolphin like creatures are everywhere, but human like creatures are 1 in a trillion shot.

Or maybe we're the first. The most advanced and other intelligent alien species are less advanced.

Or maybe we're the only intelligent species in the universe.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 4, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> The *Fermi paradox*, named after Italian-American physicist Enrico Fermi, is the apparent contradiction between the lack of evidence for extraterrestrial life and various high estimates for their probability (such as some optimistic estimates for the Drake equation).[1][2]
> 
> The following are some of the facts and hypotheses that together serve to highlight the apparent contradiction:
> 
> ...


Or maybe the vastness of the universe renders that "paradox" moot.


----------



## james bond (Oct 4, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Or maybe the vastness of the universe renders that "paradox" moot.


This is why you shouldn't be in S&T with that kind of "fairy tale" logic.  The true science-minded know it takes life to make life.  If we could see a single-cell pop up from non-life, then you would not only make the paradox moot, but would win the argument, be world famous, and the majority would believe in much life elsewhere.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 4, 2021)

james bond said:


> This is why you shouldn't be in S&T with that kind of "fairy tale" logic.  The true science-minded know it takes life to make life.  If we could see a single-cell pop up from non-life, then you would not only make the paradox moot, but would win the argument, be world famous, and the majority would believe in much life elsewhere.


No stupid, you are not following. This is a discussion for rational adults, not manbabies whose minds are handicapped by iron age mythology. The universe may be so vast, that even if there have been a billion advanced civilizations, it's not only possible they never traveled the universe, but also possible that, even if they have, they have not encountered earth.


----------



## Otis Mayfield (Oct 4, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> No stupid, you are not following. This is a discussion for rational adults, not manbabies whose minds are handicapped by iron age mythology. The universe may be so vast, that even if there have been a billion advanced civilizations, it's not only possible they never traveled the universe, but also possible that, even if they have, they have not encountered earth.




It's not about them finding us, it's about us finding them.

If a alien civilization existed a billion years ago, that gave their EM transmissions a billion light years to travel. That's a huge sphere even by universe sizes.

Our EM transmission sphere is tiny as it's only a hundred years old or so.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 4, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> If a alien civilization existed a billion years ago, that gave their EM transmissions a billion light years to travel. That's a huge sphere even by universe sizes


But you are overlooking something: the exponential weakening of those transmissions. Twice as far = 4 times weaker. 1 billion times as far = 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 times weaker. Would we even be able to pick that out of the background noise?


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 6, 2021)

Domino said:


> 1. the path to the planet on which intelligent life is possible about 5 million light years.
> 2.according to modern classical physics of Einstein
> - the speed of light is limited and the time depends on the speed of movement
> - a "hole in space" is theoretically possible, but time depends on speed and gravity
> ...



That's by the way the most mysterious thing at all: Why for heavens sake do you think aliens would like to conquer us?

The other problem is not half as mysterious: 2 entangled particles for example act as if they would be the same - independent whether they are 5 million lightyears far from each other. If you change the spin of one of the 2 entangled particles here then this changes also the sin  - ah sorry: "spin" - of the particle which is 5 million lightyears far away. The only problem: To take a look whether this really had happened needs 5 million years or longer.  In my words: It looks like as if between this entangled particles exist no space at all - although they are able to be 5 million lightyears far from each other.

The problem is: We don't now what we don't know - but perhaps exists indeed a shortcut. A science fiction idea which I have now could it be for example to produce an anti-existence from you with negative energy - we could unify you with your anti-existence so you would not exist any longer because you had no energy. And then we could revert this operation and separate you and your anti-existence in any place and time of the universe - for example now 5 million lightyears far away. But I'm not sure whether you really like to meet your anti-existence (or whether we all together would like this at all) and to become a nothing only on reason to travel to a planet 5 million lightyears far from here where possibly the food is bad.


----------



## Turtlesoup (Oct 6, 2021)

Domino said:


> 1. the path to the planet on which intelligent life is possible about 5 million light years.
> 2.according to modern classical physics of Einstein
> - the speed of light is limited and the time depends on the speed of movement
> - a "hole in space" is theoretically possible, but time depends on speed and gravity
> ...


Aliens exist----we have proof of them existing----Bacteria from space.


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 6, 2021)

Quasar44 said:


> Domino
> The speed of light is not limited !!!
> It’s only limited to us and our understanding
> 
> A very advanced race can manipulate worm holes and go anywhere



The speed of light in vacuum is always only the same speed - lightspeed - independent from the speed of any observer (whoever this is) within the universe.


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 6, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> Aliens exist----we have proof of them existing----Bacteria from space.



Bacteriae are part of the evolution on planet Earth. If anywhere a second evolution of life did happen - why exist there bacteriae?


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 6, 2021)

TNHarley said:


> I dont understand why you think that proves aliens dont exist.



I guess he thought "exist here on our planet"


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 6, 2021)

Quasar44 said:


> Humans are only 200,000 yrs old and real science has only occurred the last 300 years
> 
> Just imagine a race that is 2 million yrs old
> Yikes



The best ideas for "real science" came from the ancient Greek culture. I have here a still not read book, German translation, from Carlo Rivelli "Die Geburt der Wissenschaft. Anaximander und sein Erbe" - "The birth of science. Anaximander and his heritage." It's one of this books like jewels. I'm shy to open it and to read its secrets. To read such a book has to be celebrated in a good atmosphere.

Our evolution started by the way about 7 million years ago, 1.5 million years old is the eldest campfire which we found - but it's possible we use campfires since 2 million years - and about 70,000 years ago we died out - nearly. About 70,000 years ago existed less than 1000 individuals who are our all ancestors. And about 20,000 years ago wolves took care of us and became dogs.


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 6, 2021)

Quasar44 said:


> Hundreds of billions  of planets and moons  ??
> They exist in many places



90% of all suns are too small for life.  Nearly all places in the galaxy - specially where are the most stars - have a high radiation. Earth and moon are a double planet - what means the moon had been a part of the Earth and goes slowly  - extremly slowly - away. The moon reduced the rotation speed of the Earth from about 8 hours to 24 hours. The Earth has  astonishingly enough water and energy for an evolution - but also not too much water and not too much energy. And so on and so on. => The probability for life is nearly 0.

So what result gives the calculaion "nearly endless possibilities * nearly no chance at all"? We know the result is 1 or higher because we exist. But is it higher?


----------



## Quasar44 (Oct 6, 2021)

zaangalewa 
Earth type planets are very common and billions of them exist in just our galaxy


----------



## Quasar44 (Oct 6, 2021)

zaangalewa 
The Greeks were very very limited 
They did not know modern science at all

Modern and real science is only a couple of centuries old
 You did have Newton and Galileo much earlier but it’s only been around a short time


----------



## Quasar44 (Oct 6, 2021)

Greeks had zero modern instruments and many of what they said was wrong


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 6, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> 90% of all suns are too small for life.  Nearly all places in the galaxy - specially where are the most stars - have a high radiation. Earth and moon are a double planet - what means the moon had been a part of the Earth and goes slowly  - extremly slowly - away. The moon reduced the rotation speed of the Earth from about 8 hours to 24 hours. The Earth has  astonishingly enough water and energy for an evolution - but also not too much water and not too much energy. And so on and so on. => The probability for life is nearly 0.
> 
> So what result gives the calculaion "nearly endless possibilities * nearly no chance at all"? We know the result is 1 or higher because we exist. But is it higher?


That's all specious nonsense, for two reasons.
1)  You are just engaging in a reiteration of Hoyle"s Fallacy or Zeno's paradox of motion. Via this specious reasoning, you can force the "probability" of any event to approach zero. Any event, ever. Just start arbitrarily assigning probability to the prior events leading to the current event, and voila: probability virtually zero. See a rock on the ground? Arbitrarily assign a probability to its initial formation. Then to its breaking off in that shape. Then to the events that occured to cause it to end up at your location. Suddenly, the probability the rock exists at the time and place is zero. Obviously this is useless fallacy. Just as we know the arrow does reach its target, despite Zeno's specious paradox of motion.

2) You are only speaking to probabilities of life being EXACTLY the same as life here on a planet EXACTLY the same as ours. Not the probability of life existing or forming at a time and place in general.

Fallacy wrapped in fallacy.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 6, 2021)

For those who are not familiar with *Zeno's Paradox of Motion*:

It concludes that movement is impossible. An object cannot move from point A to point B, because, first, the object has to go half the distance from A to B. Then half the rest of the distance. Then half the rest. And so on, and so forth. This implies that point B will never be reached, as there will always be a remaining distance, half of which must be traversed before anything else can occur.

We crawled out from under this specious paradox when we learned how to sum infinite series of numbers. But it was always easy to fire an arrow through the air to its target to show the conclusion of this argument was absurd.

Hoyle's Fallacy, Zeno's Paradox, and the specious reasoning employed by zaangalewa are fundamentally no different. Just arbitrarily assign probabilities to arbitrarily chosen events leading directly to the event in question; any probabilities less than 100% will do. If you collect enough of these arbitrary declarations, you can make the event in question have a virtually zero probability.  This is unbounded.  You have no reason whatsoever to stop before the probability reaches zero. If you cannot make it to almost zero, I will just add some more arbitrarily chosen events and multiply your number by those arbitrarily designated probabilities. Rinse, repeat. We will get to virtually zero, eventually. For ANY event. No matter how common or rare the event seems to be, in reality

Which definitively tells us this is meaningless pap.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 6, 2021)

Just to further illustrate how useless and specious this old parlor trick favored by the Creationists is:

Event in question: formation of life on earth

Now, choose any arbitrary events you like that directly led to the existence of Earth and the life on it. Really! ANY. Formation of the Sun, the earth, the Moon, configuration of our Solar System, the chemicals present on earth, anything you like.

Now, assign each a probability of 99%. 99% seems pretty high, right? And event that is 99% likely to happen would almost always happen, right?

Welp, now multiply your probabilities. If you gather enough of these causal events, guess what happens? The probability of the "event in question" tends to ZERO. That's right. I can assign 99% probability to arbitrarily chosen events leading directly to the event in question, and end up with a virtually ZERO probability of the event in question.

The curve, for all x>0, looks like this, with the y-axis representing the probability of the "event in question", and x being the number of arbitrarily chosen, causal events with probability of 99%:


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 7, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> That's all specious nonsense,



That's what?`



Fort Fun Indiana said:


> for two reasons.
> 1)  You are just engaging in a reiteration of Hoyle"s Fallacy or Zeno's paradox of motion.



?



Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Via this specious reasoning, you can force the "probability" of any event to approach zero. Any event, ever.



?



Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Just start arbitrarily assigning probability to the prior events leading to the current event, and voila: probability virtually zero. See a rock on the ground? Arbitrarily assign a probability to its initial formation. Then to its breaking off in that shape. Then to the events that occured to cause it to end up at your location. Suddenly, the probability the rock exists at the time and place is zero. Obviously this is useless fallacy. Just as we know the arrow does reach its target, despite Zeno's specious paradox of motion.



You think we "apes" had been able to make fire on a water planet - if we had been evolved there from what kind of animal exactly?

What I said is very simple: _"~0 * ~oo  >= 1"_ That's what we "know" because we exist. But we just simple do not know what the result could be from _"nearly endless possiblities"_ * _"nearly no chance that this will happen"_. It could be any result.




Fort Fun Indiana said:


> 2) You are only speaking to probabilities of life being EXACTLY the same as life here on a planet EXACTLY the same as ours.



I don't know any other life.



Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Not the probability of life existing or forming at a time and place in general.
> 
> Fallacy wrapped in fallacy.



¿Fallacy? ... ¿Trugschluß? ... "Fallacy wrapped in fallacy" is a nice sentence (specially because it could happen that two wrapped fallacies could also produce a truth) - but it is nonsense in this context here. If you never saw a butterlfly in your life and you never learned anyting about then this would change nothing in the existence of butterflies. You could just simple not imagine that such a creature exists. But this also changes nothing in the thought that the sphere where water is able to be fluid is very near to their surface in case of 90 % of all suns. And this suns make also heavy protuberances from time to time which would disinfect every form of life which we know.


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 7, 2021)

Quasar44 said:


> zaangalewa
> Earth type planets are very common and billions of them exist in just our galaxy



What I doubt because as I said: we are the double planet system Earth+Moon. If this is an important factor then the probability for life in other solar systems sinks dramatically.


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 7, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> For those who are not familiar with *Zeno's Paradox of Motion*:
> 
> It concludes that movement is impossible. An object cannot move from point A to point B, because, first, the object has to go half the distance from A to B. Then half the rest of the distance. Then half the rest. And so on, and so forth. This implies that point B will never be reached, as there will always be a remaining distance, half of which must be traversed before anything else can occur.
> 
> ...



Zenon formulated a problem (paradoxon) of a method of science - the use of mathematics for the solution of a physical problems. That's all.

What I said has absolutelly nothing to do with Zenons paradoxon in case of infinitesimal values. It is for everyone totally clear that Achill runs faster than a turtle - the problem was to find a mathematical method to explain this.

I say it's totally unclear whether a second time life exists or not exists because we are not able to solve "~0 *~oo" (nearly impossible probability times nearly endless possibilities". This problem is mathematically not solveable how you can imagine if you write a program which finds randomly a very high number (1..oo) and a very low number (0..1) and multiplies this numbers. The results don't show any structure. => We are only able to solve this problem by searching in the reality of the universe all around us.


And the bad manners of US-Americans in all forms of discussions seems to be by the way a problem of the education in the US-American kindergartens.


----------



## james bond (Oct 7, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> No stupid, you are not following. This is a discussion for rational adults, not manbabies whose minds are handicapped by iron age mythology. The universe may be so vast, that even if there have been a billion advanced civilizations, it's not only possible they never traveled the universe, but also possible that, even if they have, they have not encountered earth.


Lol, I'm not the farking stupid one, farking stupid one.  It's you, you, you.

Rational adults have figured out that life does not come from non-life, so there isn't life elsewhere.  That there are no aliens.  Not only that, the solar winds would play havoc with life if the planet or heavenly body wasn't protected.  Climate change would be nothing compared to bearing up against the solar winds.


----------



## james bond (Oct 7, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Just to further illustrate how useless and specious this old parlor trick favored by the Creationists is:
> 
> Event in question: formation of life on earth
> 
> ...


The probability that atheists would ever wise up in S&T is ZERO.  Mwahahahahahahaha.


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 7, 2021)

RE:  aliens don't exist
SUBTOPIC:  Scientific-Based Beliefs 'vs' Faith-Based Beliefs
※→ James Bond, et al,

*BLUF*: Believing in the "Scientific Method" on matters of the physical universe is completely separate from the Belief or Disbelief in the Supreme Being.  You can believe in one, or the other, or both.  The two frameworks are separate and distinct.  The Scientific framework is within the human understanding; whereas, the Faith-Based framework is beyond the scope of scientific understanding.



james bond said:


> The probability that atheists would ever wise up in S&T is ZERO.  Mwahahahahahahaha.


*(COMMENT)*

I use the example of String Theory and Supersymmetry which are topics in Physics that do not lend themselves to study under the scientific method (yet).  Like faith-based frameworks, string theory and supersymmetry are not yet in the realm of real science (testable).






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 7, 2021)

Quasar44 said:


> zaangalewa
> The Greeks were very very limited



The Greeks tested in every of their city states another form of society. We are very limited. They were only 4 million people at all and had much more important people per a million people than any other "nation" of all mankind.



Quasar44 said:


> They did not know modern science at all



Without the ancient Greek culture we had not been able to know on our own what it is what you call "modern science".



Quasar44 said:


> Modern and real science is only a couple of centuries old



What is modern? What has it to do with science?  And why is the ancient Greek culture not real for you although you are a child of this culture?




Quasar44 said:


> You did have Newton and Galileo much earlier but it’s only been around a short time



?

Newton became not famous because of Galileo Galilei - he became famous because of Johannes Kepler. Otherwise no one had taken serios his mysterious long-distance effect. But he had been able to explain the results of Kepler which were basing on the empirical data of Tycho Brahe.


----------



## james bond (Oct 7, 2021)

RoccoR said:


> RE:  aliens don't exist
> SUBTOPIC:  Scientific-Based Beliefs 'vs' Faith-Based Beliefs
> ※→ James Bond, et al,
> 
> ...


This is too ignorant, even for you Rocco.  Today's "scientific method" isn't real as it's based on atheism.  The atheist scientists do no consider God to exist, let alone be the creator.  Thus, we have creation science and are battling to have it taught in public schools.  We find that science backs up the Bible and the greatest scientists ever believed in creation.  The "scientific method" was founded by a creation scientist, Sir Francis Bacon.  The atheist scientists are wrong and prejudiced right off the bat.  They get to assume their atheism religion instead of a Creator in existence.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 7, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> You think we "apes" had been able to make fire on a water planet - if we had been evolved there from what kind of animal exactly?


You are the only one talking about odds of apes forming on other planets. An odd, apparently useless topic.


zaangalewa said:


> we just simple do not know what the result could be from _"nearly endless possiblities"_ * _"nearly no chance that this will happen"_. It could be any result.


That's a useless tautology. It is true of any event. But what we safely can say is that, if something can occur once in the universe, it likely has and will occur at least twice. This principle is actually useful, unlike the useless tautology above that you stated.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 7, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> specially because it could happen that two wrapped fallacies could also produce a truth)


No, they could not. They could produce a result that matches truth, but it would be quite by coincidence, not by virtue of valid method. Like a child getting the right answer on a math quiz, but getting by accident via incorrect methods.. So no, that's wrong. And the quiz answer is marked incorrect. 

I am trying to explain to you why your argument is specious and useless. Are you following?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 7, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Zenon formulated a problem (paradoxon) of a method of science - the use of mathematics for the solution of a physical problems. That's all.


Uh, Zeno did more than that. Now you are making stuff up. Furthermore, since you are employing the same, specious reasoning as Zeno, maybe pause and direct the criticism at yourself. 

Do you understand that you are doing this? Do you need a more thorough explanation?


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 8, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> You are the only one talking about odds of apes forming on other planets. An odd, apparently useless topic.



I do not do this and you know it.



Fort Fun Indiana said:


> That's a useless tautology.



A what?



Fort Fun Indiana said:


> It is true of any event. ...



What a nonsense. I will stop now to "discuss" with you any longer. Believe whatever you like to believe about aliens and your very special form of "logic" - that's absolutelly not my problem.


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 8, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> No, they could not.



Think! Someone is able to lie and to say the truth. This could be a wrapped fallacy for example.


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 8, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Uh, Zeno did more than that.



No. It's totally clear everyone knows that Achill is faster than a turtle. The problem of Zenon is a pure mathematical problem. It shows what we find out if we use the wrong form of mathematics which is not adequate to the physical problem.



Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Now you are making stuff up. Furthermore, since you are employing the same, specious reasoning as Zeno,



I used absolutelly nothing what Zenon had said with his very famous paradoxon.



Fort Fun Indiana said:


> maybe pause and direct the criticism at yourself.
> 
> Do you understand that you are doing this? Do you need a more thorough explanation?



no comment


----------



## Deplorable Yankee (Oct 8, 2021)

Domino said:


> 1. the path to the planet on which intelligent life is possible about 5 million light years.
> 2.according to modern classical physics of Einstein
> - the speed of light is limited and the time depends on the speed of movement
> - a "hole in space" is theoretically possible, but time depends on speed and gravity
> ...


Aliens and interdeminsional elves totally exist


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 8, 2021)

Quasar44 said:


> Greeks had zero modern instruments and many of what they said was wrong



US-Americans have many modern instruments and many of what they say is wrong. I guess in about 2500 years "they" - whoever they will be - will still read the Greek philosophers - and perhaps some German books about philosophy and science - but English books except Monty Shakespeare? Are you sure?


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 8, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> No, they could not. They could produce a result that matches truth, but it would be quite by coincidence, not by virtue of valid method. Like a child getting the right answer on a math quiz, but getting by accident via incorrect methods.. So no, that's wrong. And the quiz answer is marked incorrect.
> 
> I am trying to explain to you why your argument is specious and useless. Are you following?



Greek knowledge: If you remember well then it had been Erathostenes who had calculated 40,000 km (instead of 40,077 km) for the circumference of  the Earth (6.25 of his "stadions" are 1 km). This was known since 250 BC.

US-American knowledge: Specially the US-American author Washington Irvin, who wrote a book about Columbus, founded the myth people had believed in a "flat Earth" in the middle ages, because he justified with this nonsense the brave and smart American pioneer Columbus.

Indeed made Columbus wrong calculations about the distance between India and Europe - and he and his men survived only because an unknown continent had been between India and Europe - which "we" Germans (= Mr. Waldseemüller and his team of cartographs) named "America" to honor the Italian sailor Amerigo Vespucchi.


----------



## Flash (Oct 8, 2021)

JohnDB said:


> Energy is needed to travel in space. Currently we do this with the expulsion of hot gasses. (Hydrogen and oxygen fuel)
> 
> We will need a new technology to go faster than what we currently have... diminishing returns after a while.
> 
> ...



Exactly!

It would take the entire energy output of the world for three years to propel a shuttle size craft to 40% of the speed of light. 

Humans have been brainwashed with science fiction and have no concept of reality when it comes to space travel, the size of the universe or what it takes to produce life.

For instance, just to mention distance.  If the sun was the size of a golf ball the nearest star would be about 760 miles away.


----------



## Blues Man (Oct 8, 2021)

Domino said:


> 1. the path to the planet on which intelligent life is possible about 5 million light years.
> 2.according to modern classical physics of Einstein
> - the speed of light is limited and the time depends on the speed of movement
> - a "hole in space" is theoretically possible, but time depends on speed and gravity
> ...


There is the possibility that life exists in other parts of the universe.

That we most probably will never know if it does in no way means it doesn't exist


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 8, 2021)

RE: aliens don't exist
SUBTOPIC: Scientific-Based Beliefs 'vs' Faith-Based Beliefs
※→ James Bond, et al,

*BLUF*:  I believe you are making a terrible mistake in logic.



			
				RoccoR said:
			
		

> BLUF: Believing in the "Scientific Method" on matters of the physical universe is completely separate from the Belief or Disbelief in the Supreme Being. You can believe in one, or the other, or both. The two frameworks are separate and distinct. The Scientific framework is within the human understanding; whereas, the Faith-Based framework is beyond the scope of scientific understanding.





james bond said:


> This is too ignorant, even for you Rocco.  Today's "scientific method" isn't real as it's based on atheism.  The atheist scientists do no consider God to exist, let alone be the creator.  Thus, we have creation science and are battling to have it taught in public schools.  We find that science backs up the Bible and the greatest scientists ever believed in creation.  The "scientific method" was founded by a creation scientist, Sir Francis Bacon.  The atheist scientists are wrong and prejudiced right off the bat.  They get to assume their atheism religion instead of a Creator in existence.


*(SOURCE)*





*(COMMENT)*

I believe you are totally incorrect on this matter.  The scientific Method has nothing to do with whether or not a faith-based belief exists.   The "Scientific Method" deals with "empirical evidence;" and NOT as to whether user of the methodology has a belief (or not) in the supernatural.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 8, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> There is the possibility that life exists in other parts of the universe.
> 
> That we most probably will never know if it does in no way means it doesn't exist


*(COMMENT)

This is an example of the application: theory of evidence*.







_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## james bond (Oct 8, 2021)

RoccoR said:


> RE: aliens don't exist
> SUBTOPIC: Scientific-Based Beliefs 'vs' Faith-Based Beliefs
> ※→ James Bond, et al,
> 
> ...


I know the definition, RoccoR.  Let's work out a problem instead of trying to show I'm ignorant (lol).  (I show the atheists here are ignorant all the time by embarrassing them beyond belief.  The best would be to have Jesus give them what they deserve at the end.)  That would be more interesting. 

For the atheists, it would be does God exist?

For the believers, it would be does God not exist?

For me...

1.  God does not exist.
2.  The results will not show a definite result or conclusion all the time.
3.  If the global flood did happen, then God exists.  The believers believe this is a true statement.  The atheists do not.believe this is a true statement (IOW, they believe in a lie.).
4.  People believe what they want to believe.
5.  Open for discussion.


----------



## Flash (Oct 8, 2021)

The theory of evidence summed up in one phrase:

"Show me the money".


----------



## Blues Man (Oct 8, 2021)

Flash said:


> The theory of evidence summed up in one phrase:
> 
> "Show me the money".


Lack of evidence is proof of nothing.

I might not have any money to show you but that in no way means I have no money


----------



## Flash (Oct 8, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Lack of evidence is proof of nothing.
> 
> I might not have any money to show you but that in no way means I have no money


But if you want to convince me that you have the money then you had better show it to me or else as far as I am concerned you have nothing.

If you want to convince me that there is life elsewhere than earth then show it to me.


----------



## Blues Man (Oct 8, 2021)

Flash said:


> But if you want to convince me that you have the money then you had better show it to me or else as far as I am concerned you have nothing.
> 
> If you want to convince me that there is life elsewhere than earth then show it to me.


This is where your assumptions are wrong.

Can you really extrapolate the state of the entire universe from the vanishingly small sample that is our solar system?

We only have an understanding of about 5% of all the matter and energy in the universe so making an absolute statement that encompasses the entire universe is not only arrogant but also ignorant.


----------



## Flash (Oct 8, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> This is where your assumptions are wrong.
> 
> Can you really extrapolate the state of the entire universe from the vanishingly small sample that is our solar system?
> 
> We only have an understanding of about 5% of all the matter and energy in the universe so making an absolute statement that encompasses the entire universe is not only arrogant but also ignorant.


In order to make valid assumptions you need more than one data point.  Until you see another data point any assumptions you make are only guesses.

If the universe is finite then there will be unique things in it.  

When we look into the sky we see a hostile universe for the most part.  Full of environments that will kill life as we know it.  We see nothing that looks like earth.

Even earth isn't all that friendly.  There have been a half dozen extinction events that have come damn close to killing all the life on earth.  The next one may kill everything.


----------



## Blues Man (Oct 8, 2021)

Flash said:


> In order to make valid assumptions you need more than one data point.  Until you see another data point any assumptions you make are only guesses.
> 
> If the universe is finite then there will be unique things in it.
> 
> ...


Is the universe finite?

We can't answer that because we literally know nothing about more than 95% of the universe.

There is a very real possibility that life as we know it but more likely as we don't know it exists in somewhere in the vastness of the universe.


----------



## Flash (Oct 8, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Is the universe finite?
> 
> We can't answer that because we literally know nothing about more than 95% of the universe.
> 
> There is a very real possibility that life as we know it but more likely as we don't know it exists in somewhere in the vastness of the universe.




You don't know what the "possibilities" are because you have only one data point.  You have no idea of "likely" because you only have one data point.

Until we get another data point all we have are guesses, influenced by being brainwashed by science fiction.

I have seen thousands of pictures of objects in space.  None of them has any proof of any life elsewhere.  In fact just the opposite is shown.  Pictures of hostile environments.

The universe is made up of mostly nothing with dust, rocks, gas and nuclear explosions interspersed at great distances.   We have no idea if there is life elsewhere because we have only seen it one place.


----------



## Iamartiewhitefox (Oct 8, 2021)

Domino said:


> 1. the path to the planet on which intelligent life is possible about 5 million light years.
> 2.according to modern classical physics of Einstein
> - the speed of light is limited and the time depends on the speed of movement
> - a "hole in space" is theoretically possible, but time depends on speed and gravity
> ...


Really? We are alien's. Jesus is our Father. He is not of this world. They that are like his kind, gift giving self, not being offended by the sight of what is, will not be of the world. Amish people are still of the world. People cannot make themselves to not be of the world making themselves live like people lived, in the 1700 and 1800 in the USA. I saw several UFOs. One had a rotating light that shined in my direction only. I was in Ryan's beach ca. The object was a little above telephone pole height heading toward Monte Rio.
I was in a Carrows reasarunt in orange county ca.  I was looking at the distant Mountains at the time. I saw a tear drop shaped craft moving very fast below mountain top level, from my right to my left. It would have been out of sight by the time I told people about it.
I was in Jenner California on a mountain in a house looking south. I was at 1400 feet elivation. Way out in the distance I saw a short vertical streak of light. It had an upside down V of light on top of it. That thing moved up into the clouds when I spotted it. That thing knew I was looking at it.
Two silver cigar shaped UFOs came really close to me, at that place. The sound they made made me to turn around when I was at my computer. It was moving really slow from my right to my left, when I turned around. It was awesome. It sounded like a rough sounding, propeler powered, fire fighting plane. I went out back to see it. I saw a smaller version of itself following a big Cigar shaped UFO. I was spell bound by what I saw. It riveted my attention. 
I was on my back doing a work out with weights when I saw a sparkling object in the sky at a great height. It moved slowly in one direction, making sharp turn. It followed the same angle of the telephone pole cables. That thing wanted me to see it. I was in a narrow place, just wide enough for me to do what I was doing.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 8, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> I do not do this and you know it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dude, either you are not following what i am saying at all, or you have serious memory problems.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 8, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> I used absolutelly nothing what Zenon had said with his very famous paradoxon.


You absolutely did, without knowing it. I explained exactly how. I don't think you are following. You have gotten so comfortable woth your specious, creationist canard that you can't see it for what it is.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 8, 2021)

Iamartiewhitefox said:


> Really? We are alien's. Jesus is our Father. He is not of this world. They that are like his kind, gift giving self, not being offended by the sight of what is, will not be of the world. Amish people are still of the world. People cannot make themselves to not be of the world making themselves live like people lived, in the 1700 and 1800 in the USA. I saw several UFOs. One had a rotating light that shined in my direction only. I was in Ryan's beach ca. The object was a little above telephone pole height heading toward Monte Rio.
> I was in a Carrows reasarunt in orange county ca.  I was looking at the distant Mountains at the time. I saw a tear drop shaped craft moving very fast below mountain top level, from my right to my left. It would have been out of sight by the time I told people about it.
> I was in Jenner California on a mountain in a house looking south. I was at 1400 feet elivation. Way out in the distance I saw a short vertical streak of light. It had an upside down V of light on top of it. That thing moved up into the clouds when I spotted it. That thing knew I was looking at it.
> Two silver cigar shaped UFOs came really close to me, at that place. The sound they made made me to turn around when I was at my computer. It was moving really slow from my right to my left, when I turned around. It was awesome. It sounded like a rough sounding, propeler powered, fire fighting plane. I went out back to see it. I saw a smaller version of itself following a big Cigar shaped UFO. I was spell bound by what I saw. It riveted my attention.
> I was on my back doing a work out with weights when I saw a sparkling object in the sky at a great height. It moved slowly in one direction, making sharp turn. It followed the same angle of the telephone pole cables. That thing wanted me to see it. I was in a narrow place, just wide enough for me to do what I was doing.


Guess what looks like a cigar shaped UFO? A plane viewed from a side angle. Or a blimp. Or even a helicopter, if the glare is right.


----------



## JohnDB (Oct 8, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Is the universe finite?
> 
> We can't answer that because we literally know nothing about more than 95% of the universe.
> 
> There is a very real possibility that life as we know it but more likely as we don't know it exists in somewhere in the vastness of the universe.


Which brings up yet another point...

The nearest solar system that has a more circular orbit than the oval which is common PLUS a normal sized planet instead of a gas giant at our distance from the sun to it's star (Even more rare) ...is so far away that if we left when Columbus discovered America we would just now be arriving there. 

This is because of the time dilation effect of approaching a significant fraction of the speed of light.


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 9, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> You absolutely did, without knowing it.



Nothing what I said has to do with the paradoxon of Zenon. You have an answer which seems to be your answer for every problem when you do not like to start to think about.



Fort Fun Indiana said:


> I explained exactly how.



You spoke nonsense with the help of the paradoxon of Zenon. I spoke not about any paradoxon at all in this context. I spoke about why we are principially not able to know whether aliens exist or not exist. We need research (which leads to experience) when we like to find out what is really going on in this context.



Fort Fun Indiana said:


> I don't think you are following.



Where's not any way there's nothing to follow.



Fort Fun Indiana said:


> You have gotten so comfortable woth your specious, creationist canard that you can't see it for what it is.



Why should god not create aliens? He also created angels for example. Nevertheless has the problem I spoke about nothing to do with god. It has to do with the philosophical question:_ "What are we able to know?"_


----------



## Blues Man (Oct 9, 2021)

Flash said:


> You don't know what the "possibilities" are because you have only one data point.  You have no idea of "likely" because you only have one data point.
> 
> Until we get another data point all we have are guesses, influenced by being brainwashed by science fiction.
> 
> ...


Considering the size of the universe, its age and the abundance of matter present it is a very real possibility that some other life exists oh has existed somewhere else in the universe.

And all matter is made up of mostly nothing yet here we are.


----------



## Flash (Oct 9, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Considering the size of the universe, its age and the abundance of matter present it is a very real possibility that some other life exists oh has existed somewhere else in the universe.
> 
> And all matter is made up of mostly nothing yet here we are.




What do you base the postulation of "real possibilities" on?  Not science because science tells you that you can't postulate probabilities based upon one data point.  At least that is what I learned in my statistics classes in college.


----------



## Blues Man (Oct 9, 2021)

Flash said:


> What do you base the postulation of "real possibilities" on?  Not science because science tells you that you can't postulate probabilities based upon one data point.  At least that is what I learned in my statistics classes in college.


I don't assume that there is only one data point.

Once again the fact that we haven't found evidence in no way means that evidence does not exist.

We do not have a working knowledge of over 95% of the matter and energy in the universe.

Basing an absolute statement on that limited knowledge is far from logical


----------



## Flash (Oct 9, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> I don't assume that there is only one data point.




I know, you assume Green Orion Slave Girls being porked by Cpt Kirk.


----------



## Blues Man (Oct 9, 2021)

Flash said:


> I know, you assume Green Orion Slave Girls being porked by Cpt Kirk.


Wrong.

But you assume that since you may have never seen something that that something doesn't exist


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 9, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Nothing what I said has to do with the paradoxon of Zenon.


False. Your fallacy is, fundamentally, the same specious reasoning. You just don't understand why.


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 9, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> False. Your fallacy is, fundamentally, the same specious reasoning. You just don't understand why.



I understand very well the paradoxon of Zenon. It has absolutelly nothing to do with anything what I said here.


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 9, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Considering the size of the universe, its age and the abundance of matter present it is a very real possibility that some other life exists oh has existed somewhere else in the universe.



... or not ...



Blues Man said:


> And all matter is made up of mostly nothing yet here we are.



And let me add here:  "self-organisation of matter" seems also not to be a main attribute of the matter which is organized in living structures. Twenty years ago for example everyone of us had used other atoms - nevertheless still everyone has nearly the same body which is only a little older. And the whole matter of the solar system shows not any tendence to transform itselve into living structures - everywhere is nearly always only dead matter. The only place for life in the solar system is our little blue planet.  ... And it could be indeed the only place for life in the whole universe. ... We don't know.


----------



## Flash (Oct 11, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Wrong.
> 
> But you assume that since you may have never seen something that that something doesn't exist



It is not just me, it is everybody.

The human race has never seen ANY proof of life outside of earth. 

Until we do we have nothing and any ideas that it might exist elsewhere is pure speculation, most often fueled by the fantasy of Science Fiction.

 Another thing to consider.

Our sun will last about 10 billion years.  Life started about 500 million years ago.  

In another few hundred million years the sun will start its expansion and rapidly kill all life on earth.

For the ten billion years the earth will exist life will exist only about one billion years.  About 10% of the duration of the planet.

Advanced and intelligent life only a small fraction of that one billion years.

If we do find earth like planets somewhere there is only a one in ten chances we will see it at a time when life is present.  A much smaller fraction of that to see advanced life.  You know, advanced life like green Orion Slave Girls.

We may one day discover a planet just like earth but like earth was a couple of billion years ago with absolutely no life.  Or like earth a billion years from now, with no life.

The chances of finding a galactic empire like we see in many science fiction stories?  Nil!


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 11, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> I understand very well the paradoxon of Zenon. It has absolutelly nothing to do with anything what I  said here.


Wrong. You employ the same specious reasoning whenever you trot out your arbitrary nonsense about the probability of the existence of life on Earth. I explained it, in detail. You have not even attempted to address that explanation.

And it is ZENO


----------



## Blues Man (Oct 11, 2021)

Flash said:


> It is not just me, it is everybody.
> 
> The human race has never seen ANY proof of life outside of earth.
> 
> ...


So what?

You do realize that we know basically nothing about the vast majority of the universe don't you?

You might as well say since I never left my cave and have never seen an ocean that the ocean must not exist


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 11, 2021)

RE: aliens don't exist
SUBTOPIC: Scientific-Based Beliefs 'vs' Faith-Based Beliefs
※→ Blues Man, et al,

*Posting Reference*:  *Posting No 98, Same Thread*

*A double conditional statement of fact as it is understood today:  * A claim is scientific* IF and only IF* it is produced by a proper application of the *scientific method*, and a discipline is scientific* IF and only IF* it is governed by the *scientific method*.


Blues Man said:


> So what?
> 
> You do realize that we know basically nothing about the vast majority of the universe don't you?
> 
> You might as well say since I never left my cave and have never seen an ocean that the ocean must not exist


*(COMMENT)*

The question (_True or False:  aliens don't exist)_ our friend Blues Man addresses is a question of evidence and the eventual discovery of substantiating evidence.  But like the famous *"P versus NP" *problem, it is questionable if the statement is even true. And the only way to know if it is true is to solve the question. The question (_True or False:  aliens don't exist)_ is a matter of probability.  The numbers (*in the Drake Equation*) are so huge that it is almost impossible to imagine that some form of life evolved elsewhere in the universe.  In fact, the numbers in the Milky Way Galaxy are so huge, that it is inconceivable that another form of life could not exist in our own galaxy.

I have to believe that the Blues Man argument is very viable.  If there was ever a case for the application for the *Principle of Sufficient Reason* (PSR), the Blues Man has stated it.  But the PSR in the Drake Equation has nothing to do with faith-based reasoning as may have been argued elsewhere in the thread.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Flash (Oct 11, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> So what?
> 
> You do realize that we know basically nothing about the vast majority of the universe don't you?
> 
> You might as well say since I never left my cave and have never seen an ocean that the ocean must not exist




In the meantime we don't have jackshit.

Just fantasy,


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 11, 2021)

Flash said:


> In the meantime we don't have jackshit.
> 
> Just fantasy,


We have the fact that life formed at least once in the universe. And no good reason to think it did not happen at least twice. What more do you want? A rubber biscuit?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 11, 2021)

buttercup said:


> Even many of the top researchers in this field concluded that "aliens" are interdimensional beings, not extraterrestrial.


"Top researchers"

Could you point us to their published, peer-reviewed research?


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 12, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Wrong. You employ the same specious reasoning ...



No!!! Zenon had the problem that the mathematics in his time of history was not able to describe the physical problem which he liked to describe with mathematics - in a time and world where no one had any plan about that this really will work. The Greeks were unbelievable good in their view to essential problems. They often not had a solution - but a good direction. Today everyone - not only I - is easily able to say "Mathematics is the spirituality of physics" - without to have to found any new religion or belief. Also our Christian religion is by the way not only a Jewish religion - it's also a Greek religion - an answer on many questions the Greek "atheists" once had.

I use this "spirituality" now - thousands of years later - in a totally other way than Zenon did do and "pardon": Every idiot is able to see this! When some people speak for example about a self-organisation of matter and think the same time matter is the reason why we are here (and so we are able to be spiritual entities) then this is (perhaps) not wrong - but the same time we have to see the relations: Compare the mass of the biosphere on planet Earth with the mass of x solar systems then you see directly what is a "probability direction 0". On the other side are also x solar systems only a drop of water on a hot stone compared with the (unkown or even unknowable) mass of the universe. This shows very clear the "possibilties direction oo".

If you try to solve this problem ~0 * ~oo then you are able to see immediatelly that we are not able to calculate anything in this context. I yet said it to you: Make a program where you take a random number between 0..1 and multiply it with another random number 1..oo. This always gives a result - but no one is able to say which result.

Very simple example (of many examples) about the difficulties which we have: The Earth - nearly on a perfect circular path around the sun - is directly in the middle of a habitable zone. And means this now everywhere on planet Earth exist ideal conditions for all forms of life? Because of a little axial inclination will come winter and so water is freezing to ice. Death is all around. On the other side: seasons seem to be the same time also a motor for evolution. (This death of winter is often only sleeping for a while). But what do we really know in this context? This situation of the Earth is very special because we are a double planet system Earth+Moon - so the axial inclination is relativelly stable - since billions of years.

We will for sure know more when we will have found 100 planets with life. But still we don't have any clue whether such planets (¿which parameters do we really need?) exist at all and how to find this out. The argument "many possibilities" is only one side of the coin. The easy side. On the other side is written much more.


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 12, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> We have the fact that life formed at least once in the universe. And no good reason to think it did not happen at least twice.



Why? If it did happen only on Earth - what's easily possible to be so - then we know very clear why god made us responsible for this planet. All others of our animalic sisters and brothers don't have the intellectual capacity to take this responsibility (="crown")



Fort Fun Indiana said:


> What more do you want? A rubber biscuit?



A robber biscuit sounds better. Without to know what it is I'm easily able to make one. But this is not so in case of a real extraterrestrial civilisation far from fairy tales ... ah sorry: far from science fiction stories.


----------



## Blues Man (Oct 12, 2021)

Flash said:


> In the meantime we don't have jackshit.
> 
> Just fantasy,


All I ever did was recognize the possibility something you are too thick headed to do.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 12, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Make a program where you take a random number between 0..1 and multiply it with another random number 1..oo. This always gives a result - but no one is able to say which result.


Off track again. You will always be multiplying numbers <1 by your specious reasoning. Yes, we know the eventual result: 0. Every time.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 12, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> If it did happen only on Earth - what's easily possible to be so - then we know very clear why god made us responsible for this planet.


That's not a good reason to think it only happened exactly once. That's about as far from a good reason as you could have provided. 

Try again? What reason would we have to think life has evolved and will evolve only and exactly once in the lifetime of the universe?

There isn't any. So save yourself some time and admit that.


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 12, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> That's not a good reason to think it only happened exactly once.



It is plausible that the solution of the problem "number of planets with life in the universe" = 1. It's also possible that the number is another number. But it would be wrong to say it could for example be all numbers between 1 and 1,000,000 so it should be 500,000. This woudl be only a self-delusional nonsense. And not far away is the answer it have to be "many". We know only the result is >=1 because we exist.



Fort Fun Indiana said:


> That's about as far from a good reason as you could have provided.



?




Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Try again?



What do you not understand? There is no try. Either we find aliens or they find us then we know what's going on. And as long as we don't find such a life or aliens don't find us we know nothing about.



Fort Fun Indiana said:


> What reason would we have to think life has evolved and will evolve only and exactly once in the lifetime of the universe?



What for heavens sake is so diffcult to understand from this what I said?



Fort Fun Indiana said:


> There isn't any.



I will not begin now to explain again why we are in principle in the moment don't know the answer.



Fort Fun Indiana said:


> So save yourself some time and admit that.



Show me an alien - then the answer is ">=2" but still the answer is ">=1". No one is able to say the result ">=1" means the result is not 1 only because more numbers exist.


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 12, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Off track again. You will always be multiplying numbers <1 by your specious reasoning. Yes, we know the eventual result: 0. Every time.



The result is not 0 - it is ">=1" because we know we exist. But it exist many many many variables which are totally out of our control and knowledge. We know for example that our solar system has a relativelly sharp transition where the solar wind stops and where the more dangerous interstellar radiation begins. So we live protected from the solar wind and we are alos protected againt this solar wind from our magnetic shield. And we are anyway protected because we are far from the center of the galaxy. All this conditions seem to be important. And the more and more and more conditions we find the more it looks like we got the very lucky ticket in the universal lottery. But we are not able to to see how lucky we are compared with ¿?¿?¿? .


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 12, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> It is plausible that the solution of the problem "number of planets with life in the universe" = 1


It is also plausible that the Moon disappears and reappears 1 light year away via tunneling. 


zaangalewa said:


> But it would be wrong to say it could for example be all numbers between 1 and 1,000,000 so it should be 500,000


Maybe, but we are talking about the possibility of it being any number > 1. You are the only one of the two of us arguing for the plausibility of it being EXACTLY ONE. so, in your set, your probability is 1/1,000,000. And the probability of it being >1 is 999,999/1,000,000.

So you are doing a pretty good job of making my points for me.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 12, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> The result is not 0


The result absolutely does trend to zero. As it is asymptotic, it never reaches zero. You are multiplying numbers <1. Every single time you add another, you get closer to zero.

Which sums up the fallacy of your specious reasoning quite well.


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 12, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> That's not a good reason to think it only happened exactly once. ...



I don't say this is a reason. I said "If it is so then ..." Under all circumstances - completely independent from such a question - we have to protect our living planet. If we don't do so then I will have to send someone to our father in the end of time to explain him "Sorry dad,  we killed your living creation." Under no circumstances I will tell this to god on my own.


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 12, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> It is also plausible that the Moon disappears and reappears 1 light year away via tunneling.


Bullshit.


----------



## zaangalewa (Oct 12, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> It is also plausible that the Moon disappears and reappears 1 light year away via tunneling.
> 
> Maybe, but we are talking about the possibility of it being any number > 1. You are the only one of the two of us arguing for the plausibility of it being EXACTLY ONE. so, in your set, your probability is 1/1,000,000. And the probability of it being >1 is 999,999/1,000,000.
> 
> So you are doing a pretty good job of making my points for me.



If you read what I wrote and you understood what I said then you lie now by being intentionally ignorant. To make something clear: It's a totally unimportant problem whether aliens exist or not.

-----

PS: I saw I forgot to correct in this text many of my spelling mistakes. Here is the text again:


> _It is plausible that the solution of the problem "number of planets with life in the universe" = 1. It's also possible that the number is another number. But it would be wrong to say it could for example be all numbers between 1 and 1,000,000 so it should be 500,000. This would be only a self-delusional nonsense. And not far away is the answer it have to be "many". We know only the result is >=1 because we exist._


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 12, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Bullshit.


Better brush up on quantum mechanics. Put the silly god characters aside.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 12, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> If you read what I wrote and you understood what I said then you lie now by being intentionally ignorant. To make something clear: It's a totally unimportant problem whether aliens exist or not.


Yet you felt compelled to present the dusty old fallacy of assigning arbitrary probabilities to events leading to life on earth. A specious old canard used by theists who have let their own lizard brain egos convince themselves that they are special little boys who will live forever and will  forever be the only apple of Gawd's eye.


----------



## james bond (Oct 12, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> We have the fact that life formed at least once in the universe. And no good reason to think it did not happen at least twice. What more do you want? A rubber biscuit?


Humans just had to be created _once_ as male and female and we have a chronology of it. 

There is no reason for it to happen more than once as asexuals cannot become sexual.  Nor monkeys become humans.  We should have a rubber room for the people who believe it can happen, but realistically we can't build a room big enough.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 12, 2021)

james bond said:


> Humans just had to be created once as male and female and we have a chronology of it.


No, sorry. The evidence clearly shows that did not happen. Your silly dogma is known to be false. Looks like you are relegated to brainwashing small children and getting laughed at by educated adults.


----------



## james bond (Oct 12, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> No, sorry. The evidence clearly shows that did not happen. Your silly dogma is known to be false. Looks like you are relegated to brainwashing small children and getting laughed at by educated adults.


My evidence is in writing and written by other humans living at the time.  Their biographies and histories continue on to this day.  We have had people who had skills and jobs.  Your side has nothing.  Not even a chronology.  I suppose single-cells cannot write.  Your side should be laughed off the planet .


----------



## james bond (Oct 12, 2021)

Bwahahahahaha.  What history and chronology does the atheists and their scientists have?  I remember my great-great-great-great-great granddaddy was an amoeba?  They fall for anything as long as it backs up atheism.  LMAO.  The atheists and their scientists are the stupidest people on the planet.

Here's further evidence for the creation science side.  Everyone knows the names of most of the plants and animals on the planet.  The creationists know who gave them their names.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 12, 2021)

People who do not understand the fundamental concept of "evidence" should stick to the religion section.


----------



## Stryder50 (Oct 12, 2021)

Flash said:


> It is not just me, it is everybody.
> 
> The human race has never seen ANY proof of life outside of earth.
> 
> ...


Your timeline is  a bit off.  Life started on Earth around 3.5 billion years ago (Earth and the Solar System being about 4.5 +/- billion years old).
EXCERPT:
...
The oldest known fossilized prokaryotes were laid down approximately 3.5 billion years ago, only about 1 billion years after the formation of the Earth's crust. Eukaryotes only appear in the fossil record later, and may have formed from endosymbiosis of multiple prokaryote ancestors. The oldest known fossil eukaryotes are about 1.7 billion years old. However, some genetic evidence suggests eukaryotes appeared as early as 3 billion years ago.[42]
...








						Prokaryote - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
See also;








						Stromatolite - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Guesstimates very, but most place age of the Universe at about 13.8 billion years, since the Big Bang;




__





						Age of the Universe | StarDate Online
					

The universe was born in the Big Bang — a single moment in which matter, energy, and even space and time sprang into existence. And in recent decades, scientists have been zeroing in on just when the Big Bang took place. Their conclusion: about 13.8 billion years ago.Several lines of evidence...




					stardate.org
				



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This would suggest a hefty amount of time for life to appear on other worlds and maybe even have evolved beyond we humans here.


----------



## Stryder50 (Oct 12, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> People who do not understand the fundamental concept of "evidence" should stick to the religion section.


People should not confuse evidence and proof either.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Oct 12, 2021)

yidnar said:


> the military has reported UAPs thats not even in dispute ...


*Such a Nasty NA$A*

Beware when the Illiterate Language Lords make changes, such as UFOs to UAPs (Unidentified Aerial Phenomena).  It means they're up to something devious.  Keep calling them UFOs—that'll show them you're not under their spell.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Oct 12, 2021)

Canon Shooter said:


> While all of that makes sense, the problem is that, when you're discussing space travel and, in a sense, time travel, and you couple that with the fact that the ones doing the traveling are from some distant galaxy, the rule book goes out the window. If there's another civilization out there, we have exactly zero understanding what their capabilities are.
> 
> A light year to us might be 20 minutes to them.
> 
> ...


*Quantum Quickie*

It's possible to go through the next spatial dimension at a rate of a light-year every three minutes, then come back to our limited universe.  But only light itself could be sent, so the sightings would only be of holograms.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Oct 12, 2021)

JohnDB said:


> You can only go forward in time... never backwards.


*Hocus-Wokus*

The Democrats are taking us back to the Dark Ages, proving that they have the power to make time run backwards.


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 12, 2021)

Stryder50 said:


> People should not confuse evidence and proof either.


*(COMMENT)*

Very good point...






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## james bond (Oct 12, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> People who do not understand the fundamental concept of "evidence" should stick to the religion section.


The atheist science section including evolution and evolutionary thinking may as well be religion.  Science does not back them up and today their atheist "science" deals with invisible particles and energy, i.e. dark matter and dark energy, in the universe.  They think the universe is flat when it's saddle shaped or tent shaped.  They also think the universe is boundless without any evidence.  Too many lies for me.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 12, 2021)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> *Such a Nasty NA$A*
> 
> Beware when the Illiterate Language Lords make changes, such as UFOs to UAPs (Unidentified Aerial Phenomena).  It means they're up to something devious.  Keep calling them UFOs—that'll show them you're not under their spell.


That's paranoid nuttery. They changed it to UAP because what they're seeing may not even be objects. They could be optical illusions.


----------



## Stryder50 (Oct 12, 2021)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> *Such a Nasty NA$A*
> 
> Beware when the Illiterate Language Lords make changes, such as UFOs to UAPs (Unidentified Aerial Phenomena).  It means they're up to something devious.  Keep calling them UFOs—that'll show them you're not under their spell.


Actually, the term UFO = Unidentified Flying Object is nearly 70 years old, having been placed in the early 1950s to supplant "Flying Saucers".  Intend would appear to cover sightings and events that might not be 'manufactured devices' which "flying saucers" implied.

The rub is that use of "Object" is still inferring something physical and of possible construct and not specific to aerial phenomena or anomalies, or situations that might suggest trans three physical dimension manifestations.

Possibly a bit overdue for the term change, but UAP provides a broader umbrella of labeling that can include non-physical "objects"(devices).


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 12, 2021)

Stryder50 said:


> Actually, the term UFO = Unidentified Flying Object is nearly 70 years old, having been placed in the early 1950s to supplant "Flying Saucers".  Intend would appear to cover sightings and events that might not be 'manufactured devices' which "flying saucers" implied.
> 
> The rub is that use of "Object" is still inferring something physical and of possible construct and not specific to aerial phenomena or anomalies, or situations that might suggest trans three physical dimension manifestations.
> 
> Possibly a bit overdue for the term change, but UAP provides a broader umbrella of labeling that can include non-physical "objects"(devices).


*and optical illusions. Which, no doubt account for a large portion of the sightings, if not most of them.


----------



## Stryder50 (Oct 12, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> *and optical illusions. Which, no doubt account for a large portion of the sightings, if not most of them.


You'll have to document that "most of them".
Studies I've seen over the past decades put this way down on the list.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 12, 2021)

Stryder50 said:


> You'll have to document that "most of them".
> Studies I've seen over the past decades put this way down on the list.


Which i cannot do. Thus "if". 

Please direct us to your published, peer reviewed research.


----------



## Stryder50 (Oct 12, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Which i cannot do. Thus "if".
> 
> Please direct us to your published, peer reviewed research.


Start here;




__





						Project Blue Book - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



And;








						Condon Committee - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Main challenge with this thread is it starts with a blanket statement that implies the entirety of the Universe, which until we get to other Stars and their planets remains unproven, and unknowable.

Now if you'd started claiming lack of evidence, or better yet proof, of (extra terrestrial) aliens here on Earth, you wouldn't look so ridiculous.


----------



## james bond (Oct 12, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> No, sorry. The evidence clearly shows that did not happen. Your silly dogma is known to be false. Looks like you are relegated to brainwashing small children and getting laughed at by educated adults.


You're the sorry one.  Humans and every other living organisms had to be created as adults for them to reproduce by sexual reproduction or asexual reproduction.  This is impossible by evolution standards.  Just fall down on your knees and beg for repentance.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 12, 2021)

Stryder50 said:


> Start here;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So basically, no peer reviewed published research. Ever. By anyone. And not a shred of evidence ever of a single alien craft.

But mountains of evidence that optical illusions happen and people make mistakes and lie.

All the evidence still points in the same direction. And it isn't aliens.


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## zaangalewa (Oct 13, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Better brush up on quantum mechanics. Put the silly god characters aside.



What for heavens sake has anything what you said her to me to do with quantum mechanics?


----------



## Stryder50 (Oct 13, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> So basically, no peer reviewed published research. Ever. By anyone. And not a shred of evidence ever of a single alien craft.
> 
> But mountains of evidence that optical illusions happen and people make mistakes and lie.
> 
> All the evidence still points in the same direction. And it isn't aliens.


About what we get from someone lacking in honesty and openness like you;
"This member limits who may view their full profile. "

I don't expect to overcome your ignorance or bias, just make such clear to those reading here.

"Optical illusions" don't create multiple radar returns, cause disruptions to electrical and electronic systems on aircraft that encounter UAPs.  Given the hints of the advanced technology displayed by some UAPs, hardly the sort of thing a responsible government is willing to let the general public have access to.

I'd consider reports from military organizations involved in aviation and national defense to be the sort of "peer review" that would be appropriate to the task.  Hence the reports I cited.  There is also this for general consumption;
Unconventional Flying Objects: A Scientific Analysis Paperback – December 1, 1995​...
Paul Hill was a well-respected NASA scientist when, in the early 1950s, he had a UFO sighting. Soon after, he built the first flying platform and was able to duplicate the UFO's tilt-to-control maneuvers. Official policy, however, prevented him from proclaiming his findings. "I was destined," says Hill, "to remain as unidentified as the flying objects."
For the next twenty-five years, Hill acted as an unofficial clearing house at NASA, collecting and analyzing sightings' reports for physical properties, propulsion possibilities, dynamics, etc. To refute claims that UFOs defy the laws of physics, he had to make "technological sense ... of the unconventional object."
After his retirement from NASA, Hill finally completed his remarkable analysis. In _Unconventional Flying Objects_, published posthumously, he presents his findings that UFOs "obey, not defy, the laws of physics." Vindicating his own sighting and thousands of others, he proves that UFO technology is not only explainable, but attainable.
...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Then there's this item I've a bit of connection to, it be local to where I live;
07-27-1984 - Water UFO​....








						Newspaper Clipping of the Day
					

Via Newspapers.com Reports of “UFOs”--or, at least, damned strange objects--diving in and out of large bodies of water are more common than ...




					strangeco.blogspot.com
				



....




__





						binnall @ the UFO Crash Retrieval Conference IV
					





					www.binnallofamerica.com
				



....
This is known as the Lummi Island Incident/ a watery 'Roswell"? - which involves what would seem to be a retrieval of the object a few months later by the USN on that New Years Weekend when the divers had gone down to discover the object embedded in the seafloor. 

I'll explain more later.  Seems a hasty and limited web search only shows the sketchy links I just gave.


----------



## Stryder50 (Oct 13, 2021)

Alternatively, we "humans" may be the "aliens"; or at least half 'alien'.

Reportedly the First Civilization*, Sumer, has within their cosmology~'Creation Story' and account of the Gawds ~ Anunnaki having modified an earlier version of homo/pre-human via genetics that would allow the insertion of Anunnaki genetics to produce their ideal worker species, we humans-homo sapiens.
* Nominally the first civilization, but ancient Egypt and the Indus civilization ran close seconds in time of origins.
Anunnaki often translated as Anun = 'from Heaven(s)'; na = 'came to'; ki = 'Earth'.  Or "Those whom came to Earth from the Heavens".

Many images found on Sumerian (and later Akkadian and Babylonian)** cylinder seals depict their gods/goddesses as human looking beings with wings attached, or within some form of winged framework.  Not meant to imply they literally had wings as poart of their anatomy but more to symbolize they were capable of flight, came from the skies/heavens, and as symbol these are Gawds, not regular humans.

Some select images to illustrate;
































The Sumerians also appear to have knowledge of celestial bodies in this Solar System that would not be known otherwise until centuries later with invention of high power telescopes;





** Akkad and Babylon would be later 'evolutions' of Sumer culture.  All being in Mesopotamia, present Iraq;





Images obtained here;




__





						sumerian images of annunaki at DuckDuckGo
					

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.




					duckduckgo.com


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## Stryder50 (Oct 13, 2021)

Another interesting linkage was the pantheon of Gods and Goddesses which would be similar to those of Egypt, Indus(India), Greek and Roman civilizations.  Essentially the same beings, same attributes, slightly different names;





A frequent example is the Sumerian Goddess Inanna whom was also know as Ishtar - Isis - Aphrodite - Venus - etc.








						Inanna - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Stryder50 (Oct 13, 2021)

As for Sumer accounts of how the Anunnaki had a hand in creating humans, or more correctly accelerating human evolution the clues begin with their accounts/writings to that effect, underscored by interesting differences in humans versus our closest animal "relatives" the apes/simians.

The Sumerian accounts are echoed in the Old Testament which per many scholars has origins from the time the Jews were held captive in Babylon and had access to their written records/histories.

A first clue, or implication is in Genesis, chapter six, verses 1-6 where it says the "Sons of the Gods" came down to Earth, found daughters of Man desirable, took them as wives and had offspring. IF this were true there would have to be compatible genetics/DNA between the two "species" and this appears to correlate to the Sumerian accounts of the God Enki's role and actions in producing the current version of humans.

While humans have a near 98-99% common genetics with chimps, there are some significant differences and the first begins with chimp DNA stuctured in 24 chromosomes while humans is in 23 chromosomes.  Some illustrations to underscore;

























~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




__





						image showing human dna versus ape dna at DuckDuckGo
					

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.




					duckduckgo.com


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 13, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> What for heavens sake has anything what you said her to me to do with quantum mechanics?


Exactly. Better read up.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 13, 2021)

Stryder50 said:


> While humans have a near 98-99% common genetics with chimps, there are some significant differences and the first begins with chimp DNA stuctured in 24 chromosomes while humans is in 23 chromosomes.


We don't need imaginary aliens to explain that. Two chromosomes fused in our ancestors. We know about when it happened. We know about when the last common ancestor of chimps and humans lived.


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## boedicca (Oct 13, 2021)

C'mon Maaaannnnn!

Awiens are Twooooo!!!!!!


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## Stryder50 (Oct 13, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> We don't need imaginary aliens to explain that. Two chromosomes fused in our ancestors. We know about when it happened. We know about when the last common ancestor of chimps and humans lived.


Issue is on the how, since such fusion is very rare.  Science still not clear on the mechanism of the fusion, let alone the "why".

Earliest human written records provide one possible explanation.

Note the "IF" factor ...

Also, note the "between the lines" implications regarding the origins of most human religious ideas.

The "rabbit hole" goes deeper than you would appear to grasp or appreciate ... ;-)


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 13, 2021)

Stryder50 said:


> Issue is on the how, since such fusion is very rare.


But we know for sure 2 chromosomes did fuse. 2 chromosomes that exist in all of our ape cousins.


Stryder50 said:


> Earliest human written records provide one possible explanation.


No they absolutely do not. In none of those writings is there any hint whatsoever of two chromosomes fusing. You are making the error of retrofitting new information to a bias you possess. No different than the people who claim the Bible describes the Big Bang. It, of course, does not describe anything of the sort.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 13, 2021)

Stryder50 said:


> Also, note the "between the lines" implications regarding the origins of most human religious ideas.


Also not a mystery: They made up explanations for things they did not understand. Naturally, all of these explanations involve agency, so all are anthropomorphized. EXACTLY what one should expect. All of them.

Because the ignorant, terrified, superstitious humans that invented these ideas did not even have a word for (or concept of)  agency, or sentience, or ego. "The sky gods are mad and throwing ice balls at us." It is the only way they knew of seeing the world. They believed the animals and plants and inanimate objects to have agency and human qualities that we know they did not and do not possess. As they had no word for or concept of "agency", they also had no concept of "no agency".

And, couple that with your errors of confirmation bias and backwards think (retrofitting all new information to a preconception), and you end up perceiving insight, understanding, or knowledge in these ancient people where there simply is and was none.

Like those who SWEAR they see the image of a lightbulb in the wall art of an Egyptian tomb. Obviously, that is absurd, in light of every single observation we have ever made and every fact we have at our disposal. But these people have fooled themselves, because they can't get out from under their own bias (knowing what a lightbulb looks like). To them, the shape means "lightbulb". So, naturally, they see a lightbulb, in a shape that resembles a light bulb. Ever engage one of those people? They are QUITE adamant and cannot be convinced. Naturally, because anyone who CAN put aside their confirmation bias has already been easily convinced that, no, Egyptians did not ever see lightbulbs and did not draw one on the wall.


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## zaangalewa (Oct 13, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Exactly. Better read up.


Exactly?


----------



## Paul Essien (Oct 19, 2021)

Domino said:


> 1. the path to the planet on which intelligent life is possible about 5 million light years.
> 2.according to modern classical physics of Einstein
> - the speed of light is limited and the time depends on the speed of movement
> - a "hole in space" is theoretically possible, but time depends on speed and gravity
> ...


I disagree. I think this solar system (_The Milky Way_) is over flowing and I mean OVER FLOWING with life. See this blue circle with the dot in it ? that is Earth






It was taken by the Voyager 1 space probe in 1990. The distance was 3.6 billion miles away.

Every person that has ever lived and died did so on that dot. Every war, species, invention all happened on that pale dot.

Guess what ? There are hundreds of billions of planets (dots) in our galaxy and there are hundreds of billions of galaxies in the universe, each with hundreds of billions of planets (dots)

Life on Earth is made up of 4 core things.

1) Hydrogen
2) Oxygen
3) Carbon
4) Nitrogen.

Guess what ? Those four elements, along with helium, are found throughout the cosmos in abundant supply. The idea that a single dot in the vastness of the cosmos is the only planet with life is just…nonsensical. If life can evolve here using the most abundant elements in the cosmos, life can evolve elsewhere.

The search for extra terrestrial life relies on radio telescopes. Radio waves travel at the speed of light and humans have been broadcasting them for the better part of a century. So, how much distance has been covered in that 100 year period? This will help:





That blue dot in the cutaway section is around 200 light years in diameter. So basically human's have only been able to broadcast 100 light years away in any direction. The center of our galaxy is 26,000 light years away.

Needless to say, humans radio waves have not gone very far.

And if something was there to receive the message and respond, it would take 52,000 light years to get back. Feel free to wait.

And in order for humans to receive a radio wave from an alien world, humans radio telescope(s) have to be pointed directly at the spot in which a radio wave might be picked up, on the exact date and time in which that radio wave will reach earth.

Also what if that alien civilization is far more advanced than human's are and they don’t use radio waves anymore ? What if their planet has gone extinct? Or, they are more primitive than humans are and have not yet discovered radio waves ? The X factor is endless.

It's a bit premature to make claims that life does not exist anywhere else in the universe.


----------



## Stryder50 (Mar 18, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Which i cannot do. Thus "if".
> 
> Please direct us to your published, peer reviewed research.


Please direct us to "your" published, peer reviewed research.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Mar 18, 2022)

Stryder50 said:


> Please direct us to "your" published, peer reviewed research.


On what? Be specific.


----------



## Stryder50 (Mar 18, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> On what? Be specific.


Since you don't provide any information on your background or credentials (see your "Profile" here), you choose a sample or two. If it relates to the thread topic, would be even better.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Mar 18, 2022)

Stryder50 said:


> Since you don't provide any information on your background or credentials (see your "Profile" here), you choose a sample or two. If it relates to the thread topic, would be even better.


Oops, you forgot to answer.

My research on..what?

I think you will find your demand is silly, considering which of us was making  assertions that should require evidence.


----------



## RoccoR (Mar 18, 2022)

RE:  Aliens Don't Exist
⁜→  Paul Essien, et al,

I am of the opinion that our friend "Paul Esdien" is right on target here.



Paul Essien said:


> I disagree. I think this solar system (_The Milky Way_) is over flowing and I mean OVER FLOWING with life.


...


Paul Essien said:


> It's a bit premature to make claims that life does not exist anywhere else in the universe.


*(COMMENT)*

I think that the simple "_*Principle of Sufficient Reason*_" given to us by Gottfried Leibniz, makes it abundantly that the _*Drake Equation*_ and the_* Laws of Probability*_ support "Essien's" conclusion.  These keys, even if the Drake Equation is a flawed estimate, it is highly improbable that there would not be life elsewhere.  In fact, the science suggests that the universe has been around for more than 13 Billion Years.  The Earth has had (probably) two or more _*Mass Extinction Events*_ (MEEs) in the last 400 to 500 Million Years; wherein 80% or more life on Earth was extinguished.

If we extrapolate the MEE probabilities across the Galaxy, there have probably been many civilizations that have emerged, rose to our level of understanding in science, and then were extinguished.  There could have been hundreds of civilizations that rose and then were lost in the last 13+ Billion years.

_*Just my Drachma worth of an opinion,*_




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Colin norris (Mar 18, 2022)

Godboy said:


> If they did this theoretical folding of space and "go through a hole", they could fold it there and back, and time on earth would remain in sync with these astronauts.
> 
> Aliens exist, but i doubt they have ever been here.


Do they really exist??? .
Am I supposed to believe that?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Mar 18, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> Do they really exist??? .
> Am I supposed to believe that?


Probably...?


----------



## Colin norris (Mar 18, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Probably...?


Now we diluted it from definitely to probably.  Youre getting warm.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Mar 18, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> Now we diluted it from definitely to probably.  Youre getting warm.


"We" didn't, that's just my answer.


----------



## Stryder50 (Mar 18, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> But we know for sure 2 chromosomes did fuse. 2 chromosomes that exist in all of our ape cousins.
> 
> No they absolutely do not. In none of those writings is there any hint whatsoever of two chromosomes fusing. You are making the error of retrofitting new information to a bias you possess. No different than the people who claim the Bible describes the Big Bang. It, of course, does not describe anything of the sort.


I the case of the earliest civs we don't have complete records of what they wrote or thought, rather some spotty ones based upon what archeologists have stumbled upon. And quite often those archeologists have retrofitted their own bias and suppositions to those limited finds.

There may be no "hint" of the "two chromosomes fusing" but there are hints of some knowledge of DNA.

In the "Epic of Gilgamesh" Gilgamesh makes several references to himself being two-thirds divine because his mother was a "Goddess"(Annunaki) and his father a human.  For some time this confused historians because  it would seem it should have been half and half, half from mother(egg), and another half from father(sperm).  And this of course being after the initial basics of DNA were known and that one strand each comes from a parent.  Only in recent decades has more become know about mitochondrial DNA(mtDNA) which is passed on by mother to child, and only on down through generations via the female line of descendants.

Hence the source perhaps of Gilgamesh's claim.  Regular strand of DNA in mom's egg along with the assorted mtDNA within the egg cell nucleus, for two thirds, and the regular strand from dad's sperm tow form the double helix in a zygote.  Gilgamesh likely didn't have access to a microscope nor as scientific detailed knowledge as is available today, but sounds like he was taught and grasped enough of the basic to have a "hint" about DNA.

Images from the ear tend to also support a possible "hint" about DNA:





















And, the Wiki;
...
The *caduceus* (☤; /kəˈdjuːʃəs, -siəs/; Latin: _cādūceus_, from Greek: κηρύκειον _kērū́keion_ "herald's wand, or staff")https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caduceus#cite_note-4* is the staff carried by Hermes in Greek mythology and consequently by Hermes Trismegistus in Greco-Egyptian mythology. The same staff was also borne by heralds in general, for example by Iris, the messenger of Hera. It is a short staff entwined by two serpents, sometimes surmounted by wings.  In Roman iconography, it was often depicted being carried in the left hand of Mercury, the messenger of the gods.

Some accounts suggest that the oldest known imagery of the caduceus has its roots in Mesopotamia with the Sumerian god Ningishzida; whose symbol, a staff with two snakes intertwined around it, dates back to 4000 BC to 3000 BC.[3]

As a symbolic object, it represents Hermes (or the Roman Mercury), and by extension trades, occupations, or undertakings associated with the god. In later Antiquity, the caduceus provided the basis for the astrological symbol representing the planet Mercury. Thus, through its use in astrology, alchemy, and astronomy it has come to denote the planet and elemental metal of the same name. It is said the wand would wake the sleeping and send the awake to sleep. If applied to the dying, their death was gentle; if applied to the dead, they returned to life.[4]

By extension of its association with Mercury and Hermes, the caduceus is also a recognized symbol of commerce and negotiation, two realms in which balanced exchange and reciprocity are recognized as ideals.[5][6][7] This association is ancient, and consistent from the Classical period to modern times.[8][9] The caduceus is also used as a symbol representing printing, again by extension of the attributes of Mercury (in this case associated with writing and eloquence).

Although the Rod of Asclepius is the traditional and more widely used symbol of medicine, which has only one snake and is never depicted with wings, the Caduceus is sometimes used by healthcare organizations. Given that the caduceus is primarily a symbol of commerce and other non-medical symbology, many health-care professionals disapprove of this usage.[10]
...








						Caduceus - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



............
Also as mentioned earlier, in Genesis, when the "sons of the Gods" mate with the "daughters of man" and sire offspring, this would "hint" that both parties have the fused second chromosome.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So "hints' are there, but actual statements/claims hard to find, largely because the words/terms for such were in the vocabulary of the times.*


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Mar 18, 2022)

Stryder50 said:


> the case of the earliest civs we don't have complete records of what they wrote or thought, rather some spotty ones based upon what archeologists have stumbled upon.


Because the earliest civs didn't write anything at all. They didn't have written language. We know about when written language arose.


----------



## Godboy (Mar 21, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> Do they really exist??? .
> Am I supposed to believe that?


The universe is a big place. Seems unlikely that we are the only intelligent life in it.


----------



## james bond (Mar 21, 2022)

Godboy said:


> The universe is a big place. Seems unlikely that we are the only intelligent life in it.


We have the solar winds and they are too harsh for any kind of life to live under, i.e. nothing can live in outer space.  Thus, a planet would need some kind of protection from the solar winds as well as light from the sun or stars for heat.  We also see collisions of galaxies.  We know that life needs a planet like Earth with water underground and a magnetic field.  Studying Mars, we know that a planet can easily turn into a desolate place without the magnetic field and being exposed to the solar winds.

NASA wants to sent humans to Mars to see if they can find fossils or any evidence of past life.  They're afraid that their astronauts could die there facing the solar winds as Mars has no magnetic field.


----------



## Godboy (Mar 21, 2022)

james bond said:


> We have the solar winds and they are too harsh for any kind of life to live under, i.e. nothing can live in outer space.  Thus, a planet would need some kind of protection from the solar winds as well as light from the sun or stars for heat.  We also see collisions of galaxies.  We know that life needs a planet like Earth with water underground and a magnetic field.  Studying Mars, we know that a planet can easily turn into a desolate place without the magnetic field and being exposed to the solar winds.
> 
> NASA wants to sent humans to Mars to see if they can find fossils or any evidence of past life.  They're afraid that their astronauts could die there facing the solar winds as Mars has no magnetic field.


We have discovered MANY earth like "Goldilocks" planets already. Earth isnt unique.


----------



## james bond (Mar 21, 2022)

Godboy said:


> We have discovered MANY earth like "Goldilocks" planets already. Earth isnt unique.


Earth is unique from the oceans below its surface, magnetic field, ability to grow food, and more despite sin.  You haven't lived anywhere else.  If you had, then you'd die immediately.  I'd love to send my detractors to Mars.


----------



## Godboy (Mar 22, 2022)

james bond said:


> Earth is unique from the oceans below its surface, magnetic field, ability to grow food, and more despite sin.  You haven't lived anywhere else.  If you had, then you'd die immediately.  I'd love to send my detractors to Mars.


No, there are many other planets like Earth.









						The 6 Most Earth-like Alien Planets
					

Here are 10 exoplanets regarded as the most Earth-like alien worlds discovered to date.




					www.space.com


----------



## zaangalewa (Mar 26, 2022)

Stryder50 said:


> I the case of the earliest civs we don't have complete records of what they wrote or thought, rather some spotty ones based upon what archeologists have stumbled upon. And quite often those archeologists have retrofitted their own bias and suppositions to those limited finds.
> 
> There may be no "hint" of the "two chromosomes fusing" but there are hints of some knowledge of DNA.
> 
> ...



Only a comment  to the picture of the two snakes and the DNA-strand. This are totally different structures. The DNA-strand is like a screw - the snakes are like a weaving pattern.


----------



## zaangalewa (Mar 26, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Exactly. Better read up.



You have not any light idea about quantum mechanics, isn't it?


----------



## zaangalewa (Mar 26, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Off track again. You will always be multiplying numbers <1 by your specious reasoning. Yes, we know the eventual result: 0. Every time.



You did absolutelly not understand what I said to you. Again: Take a random number between 0..1 for the chance that life exists and take a random number between 1..oo for the possibilty that this life exists anywhere in our nearly endless universe then you will get a number for the civilsations by multiplying both numbers - but you never will know what result you will get. So in theory no one knows anything.

And that's what we know:
Our own galaxy is damned old. It should be full of life everywhere if many ideas around the phrase "self organisation of matter" would be true - or the step "living matter" started in this process just now. In this second case we don't have to take a look to younger galaxies, what are nearly all other galaxies which we see. Our galaxy started to exist about only 800 million years after the big bang. And most regions (too much and too low energy) and most kind of stars (red dwarfs) are not able to bear life as we know it. And around the solar system exists a 1000 light years big bubble - which was made from a series of super nova explosions - where nearly nothing exists. And we also know we don't see life in our own solar system (except on Earth).


----------



## BackAgain (Mar 26, 2022)

Domino said:


> 1. the path to the planet on which intelligent life is possible about 5 million light years.
> 2.according to modern classical physics of Einstein
> - the speed of light is limited and the time depends on the speed of movement
> - a "hole in space" is theoretically possible, but time depends on speed and gravity
> ...


To those beings, we are the aliens. We exist.


----------



## ChemEngineer (Mar 28, 2022)

NASA's Gold Record

Godless atheists' earlier Big Lie was:  "Gee, the universe is so big, God wouldn't waste all that effort, energy and material just for humans on earth." 

After the Anthropic Principle demonstrated statistical proof of design in our many physical constants so finely tuned, godless atheists reversed their earlier lie and said, "We're just in one of an infinite number of universes, so there." 

The stunning ignorance of this Multiverse Poppycock is that gravity, for example, ONLY WORKS if it has the singular value we observe.  No other value is possible for any other "universe."  The same is true for many other constants such as the coupling constant and, the electron-proton mass ratio.


----------



## para bellum (Mar 28, 2022)

ChemEngineer said:


> ...After the Anthropic Principle demonstrated statistical proof of design in our many physical constants so finely tuned, godless atheists reversed their earlier lie and said, "We're just in one of an infinite number of universes, so there."


Well that is not what the Anthropic Principle means. It means that the answer to the "why" is not discoverable. IOW, if any of the fundamental constants were different, we would not be here to question them. Change the rest mass of an electron, or the planck length, or the speed of light, it is a fundamentally different universe with different laws of physics.


ChemEngineer said:


> The stunning ignorance of this Multiverse Poppycock is that gravity, for example, ONLY WORKS if it has the singular value we observe.  No other value is possible for any other "universe."  The same is true for many other constants such as the coupling constant and, the electron-proton mass ratio.


That is really metaphysics, not physics. M-Theory and cosmology in general because the hypotheses are not testable or disprovable.

M-Theory attempts to account for the weakness of gravity by theorizing that most of the force exists in an adjacent "brane". That may or may not be real, there is no way to check...


----------



## ChemEngineer (Mar 28, 2022)

para bellum said:


> Well that is not what the Anthropic Principle means. It means that the answer to the "why" is not discoverable. IOW, if any of the fundamental constants were different, we would not be here to question them. Change the rest mass of an electron, or the planck length, or the speed of light, it is a fundamentally different universe with different laws of physics.
> 
> That is really metaphysics, not physics. M-Theory and cosmology in general because the hypotheses are not testable or disprovable.
> 
> M-Theory attempts to account for the weakness of gravity by theorizing that most of the force exists in an adjacent "brane". That may or may not be real, there is no way to check...


Different universe, with different laws of physics.
Yeah, right.  Which of the 54 different sexes have you chosen to be?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Mar 28, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> but you never will know what result you will get.


That's my point.
.you pretend to know the number is vanishingly small. You do not know this.


----------



## para bellum (Mar 28, 2022)

ChemEngineer said:


> Different universe, with different laws of physics.
> Yeah, right.  Which of the 54 different sexes have you chosen to be?


Well let me bring it down to a smaller scale.

If the earth had no water, we would not exist. No changes to the laws of physics needed. 

In the earth with no water, there are no humans to question whether or not water is required tor life.

The AP basically says it's a pointless question. Water is needed for life- we know that because we are here. Take away the water, you take away the question.

It's a tautology. It's not really science to me because it's not testable. It's closer to philosophy. 

It's not required- you can still have a coherent worldview without it, it's not part of the Standard Model.


----------



## zaangalewa (Mar 29, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> That's my point.
> .you pretend to know the number is vanishingly small. You do not know this.



I said the hypothese "self organisation of matter" is wrong in sense of a kind of a "must lead to intelligent life" (or to life at all). Nearly the only thing we see all around us is dead matter and not living matter.

I love science fiction (as long as it is not only a western) - but I fear specially all science fiction ideas in this context are only the same as for example the illusions of the ancient Greeks about their very "human" gods and their very "human" superheroes. And the belief in science is anything else than science on its own. A thinking machine like for example "Commander Data" is perhaps nothing else than an impossibility and what we call today "artificial intelligence" we could perhaps also call "artificial stupidity" or "our own natural stupidity". Even so called "quantum computers" are perhaps only a new form of an intellectual perpetuum mobile.


----------



## Batcat (Mar 29, 2022)

Three possibilities …

1) Space aliens. 

2) Future time travelers.

3) Visitors from another dimension.


----------



## zaangalewa (Mar 29, 2022)

ChemEngineer para bellum

The "anthropic principle" says for example if I have an idea about the creation of the [dead] cosmos and the [living] chaos which leads automatically to the impossibility that I exist on my own then something is wrong with this hypothese because I exist. The anthropic principle is only a form of  economy in the thoughts.


----------



## zaangalewa (Mar 29, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Three possibilities …
> 
> 1) Space aliens.
> 
> ...



I guess you thought in 3) about another universe  and not about another dimension.

And I fear 2 is impossible at all.

First reason: If someone invents a time machine and it will be used then this will with every use change something in the past ... until one of this changes will lead to a universe where no one invented a time machine. So universes with time machines seem not to be stable.

Second reason: When I will  travel to yesterday then yesterday I will exist twice. I guess in quantum mechanics this is possible - but I never met me on my own. If I would do so then I would live in this case in a universe which has too much energy: the energy of my body twice. And somewhere in another time must exist my universe which suffers a lack of energy because my body is not there. A trick could be to transport also always the same amount of "negative" energy together with the "positive" energy of a body so the sum of this energies is 0. But how to realize such a mechanism - if this is possible at all - is very very far from our abilities.


----------



## Batcat (Mar 29, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> I guess you thought in 3) about another universe  and not about another dimension.
> 
> And I fear 2 is impossible at all.
> 
> ...


No, I meant from another dimension but from another universe is entirely another possibility I failed to list.






						Interdimensional hypothesis - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




_
The *interdimensional hypothesis* (*IDH* or *IH*) is a hypothesis advanced by ufologists such as Jacques Vallée,[1] which states that unidentified flying objects (UFOs) and related events involve visitations from other "realities" or "dimensions" that coexist separately alongside our own. It is not necessarily an alternative to the extraterrestrial hypothesis (ETH), since the two hypotheses are not mutually exclusive so both could be true simultaneously. IDH also holds that UFOs are a modern manifestation of a phenomenon that has occurred throughout recorded human history, which in prior ages were ascribed to mythological or supernatural creatures.[2]_


----------



## zaangalewa (Mar 29, 2022)

Batcat said:


> No, I meant from another dimension but from another universe is entirely another possibility I failed to list.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A point has 0 dimension, a line 1 dimension, a square 2 dimensions, a sphere three dimensions, a hpyer cube 4 dimensions and so on and so on. An Hilbert space is a space with infinite dimension. And Inter-dimension could be a fractal structure. The coast line of Great Britain has for example a fractal dimension of 1.25.

First of all: I do not believe in UFOs and ETs - although I love many of the stories about such things - as long as it is clear that this are fantasy stories or science fiction stories. That's for me "only" a form of fairy tales in our world today.

Second: We live in an universe with three dimensions - and in the theory of relativity we tranform the time also into a dimension of the space, what we call "the spacetime" or Minkowski space. So between which dimensions live your aliens?

Here something about inter-dimensions:


----------



## james bond (Mar 29, 2022)

Evolution isn't true so no aliens.  The evidence shows this.  Not even a microbe.


----------



## Batcat (Mar 29, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> A point has 0 dimension, a line 1 dimension, a square 2 dimensions, a sphere three dimensions, a hpyer cube 4 dimensions and so on and so on. An Hilbert space is a space with infinite dimension. And Inter-dimension could be a fractal structure. The coast line of Great Britain has for example a fractal dimension of 1.25.
> 
> First of all: I do not believe in UFOs and ETs - although I love many of the stories about such things - as long as it is clear that this are fantasy stories or science fiction stories. That's for me "only" a form of fairy tales in our world today.
> 
> ...


I have never observed a UFO or a UAP but have known people who did.  

I am merely mentioning possibilities for what others report they witnessed. The other dimension possibility was another person‘s idea that I personally haven’t researched.  

I personally like the time traveler theory but also do believe that an advanced civilization from another planet might be visiting us.


----------



## zaangalewa (Mar 31, 2022)

james bond said:


> Evolution isn't true so no aliens.  The evidence shows this.  Not even a microbe.



Extremly shortest way: "Evolution" means sane biological structures let survive an organisms. Who is sick is in a greater danger to die. What is now astonishing? But I guess you will also deny this as you deny to compare your forepaw with the hand of a gorilla - what could show to you intuitivelly that this biological structures are more near to each other while other structures of the same "object" - like the wings of a bird for example - are more far from each other. The reason for this is noticed in a phylogenetic "memorial structure" (an individual construction plan) which we often call "DNA". All living structures on our planet use DNA - which is itselve a process of evolution.

(And No! No! No! - this means not that evolution and creation are the same processes and idiots have only to decide in a stupid political fight what's true or false in this context because they like to vote for republicans or democtarts in the USA.  Creation and evolution are in principle totally different things and the whole discussion "creation vs evolution" is one of the very most superstupid never ending discussions in the English speaking world. Example: in a million years a species will evolve "tatskliddels" - which are very important for this species. But this "tatskliddels" will not be created in a million years - they had been created about 13.8 billion years + "some days" ago; where they also had been created when this species never will evolve and will not need this "tatskliddels" which I invented here just a moment ago to tell you something about your philosophical problems.)

Oha ... now I did forgot what I liked to say to you. No wonder when I have always to start again from Adam and Eve when I try to speak with you. Why do you think this aliens evolved DNA and not a totally other structure for their phylogenetic memory of their ¿biological? ¿bodies??

Video will start in 9 seconds after you click it. Then you will hear two not-aliens speak with each other. What will you understand from their words? And how important could it be for you to understand this few lines? Unimportant because you don't understand?


----------



## james bond (Mar 31, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Extremly shortest way: "Evolution" means sane biological structures let survive an organisms. Who is sick is in a greater danger to die. What is now astonishing? But I guess you will also deny this as you deny to compare your forepaw with the hand of a gorilla - what could show to you intuitivelLy that this biological structures are more near to each other while other structures of the same "object" - like the wings of a bird for example - are more far from each other. The reason for this is noticed in a phylogenetic "memorial structure" (an individual construction plan) which we often call "DNA". All living structures on our planet use DNA - which is itselve a process of evolution.
> 
> (And No! No! No! - this means not that evolution and creation are the same processes and idiots have only to decide in a stupid political fight what's true or false in this context because they like to vote for republicans or democtarts in the USA.  Creation and evolution are in principle totally different things and the whole discussion "creation vs evolution" is one of the very most superstupid never ending discussions in the English speaking world. Example: in a million years a species will evolve "tatskliddels" - which are very important for this species. But this "tatskliddels" will not be created in a million years - they had been created about 13.8 billion years + "some days" ago; where they also had been created when this species never will evolve and will not need this "tatskliddels" which I invented here just a moment ago to tell you something about your philosophical problems.)
> 
> ...


. We've had _sci-fi_ for soooooooooo long. How many billions of years have I been right?

Evolution isn't true so no aliens.  The evidence shows this.  Not even a microbe


----------



## zaangalewa (Mar 31, 2022)

james bond said:


> . We've had _sci-fi_ for soooooooooo long. How many billions of years have I been right?
> 
> Evolution isn't true so no aliens.  The evidence shows this.  Not even a microbe


And again you did not read what someone else said to you because you are allknowing, god.

I would by the way suggest to all Christians to throw you out of every Christian church - if this would be possible.


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## james bond (Mar 31, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> And again you did not read what someone else said to you because you are allknowing, god.
> 
> I would by the way suggest to all Christians to throw you out of every Christian church - if this would be possible.


How can anyone understand what you were babbling about Mr. Babbling Brook?  Can you provide any links to back it?

At least, I can go to sleep with my sleep sounds of it.


----------



## zaangalewa (Apr 1, 2022)

james bond said:


> How can anyone understand what you were babbling about Mr. Babbling Brook?



Very easy: Take a look to your forepaw - take a look at the hand of a gorilla - and ask yourselve "How came this similarity?" - and you will find answers. What did you not [like to] understand now? And why?


----------



## james bond (Apr 1, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Very easy: Take a look to your forepaw - take a look at the hand of a gorilla - and ask yourselve "How came this similarity?" - and you will find answers. What did you not [like to] understand now? And why?


While a gorilla's hands and human's hands have similarities, they are different is size and how they are used.  Gorillas use them for walking.  Thus, they are different species and did not evolve.  Besides, they both exist today.

I'll assume you gave up on aliens as you're back to monkey stories.


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## james bond (Apr 1, 2022)

Let us look at the overwhelming evidence for NO aliens:

"1. Men have sent spacecraft to nearly every planet in our solar system. After observing these planets, we have ruled out all but Mars and possibly a moon of Jupiter as being able to support life.

2. In 1976, the U.S.A. sent two landers to Mars. Each had instruments that could dig into the Martian sand and analyze it for any sign of life. They found absolutely nothing. In contrast, if you analyzed soil from the most barren desert on earth or the most frozen dirt in Antarctica, you would find it teeming with micro-organisms. In 1997, the U.S.A. sent Pathfinder to the surface of Mars. This rover took more samples and conducted many more experiments. It also found absolutely no sign of life. Since that time, several more missions to Mars have been launched. The results have always been the same.

3. Astronomers are constantly finding new planets in distant solar systems. Some propose that the existence of so many planets proves that there must be life somewhere else in the universe. The fact is that none of these has ever been proven to be anything close to a life-supporting planet. The tremendous distance between Earth and these planets makes it impossible to make any judgments regarding their ability to sustain life. Knowing that Earth alone supports life in our solar system, evolutionists want very badly to find another planet in another solar system to support the notion that life must have evolved. There are many other planets out there, but we certainly do not know enough about them to verify that they could support life.

So, what does the Bible say? The earth and mankind are unique in God’s creation. Genesis 1 teaches that God created the earth before He even created the sun, the moon, or the stars. Acts 17:24-26 states that “the God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands…he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.”

Originally, mankind was without sin, and everything in the world was “very good” (Genesis 1:31). When the first man sinned (Genesis 3), the result was problems of all sorts, including sickness and death. Even though animals have no personal sin before God (they are not moral beings), they still suffer and die (Romans 8:19-22). Jesus Christ died to remove the punishment that we deserve for our sin. When He returns, He will undo the curse that has existed since Adam (Revelation 21–22). Note that Romans 8:19-22 states that all of creation eagerly waits for this time. It is important to also note that Christ came to die for mankind and that He died only once (Hebrews 7:27; 9:26-28; 10:10).

If all of creation now suffers under the curse, any life apart from the earth would also suffer. If, for the sake of argument, moral beings do exist on other planets, then they also suffer; and if not now, then someday they will surely suffer when everything passes away with a great noise and the elements melt with fervent heat (2 Peter 3:10). If they had never sinned, then God would be unjust in punishing them. But if they had sinned, and Christ could die only once (which He did on earth), then they are left in their sin, which would also be contrary to the character of God (2 Peter 3:9). This leaves us with an unsolvable paradox—unless, of course, there are no moral beings outside of the earth.

What about non-moral and non-sentient life forms on other planets? Could algae or even dogs and cats be present on an unknown planet? Presumably so, and it would not do any real harm to any biblical text. But it would certainly prove problematic when trying answer questions like “Since all of creation suffers, what purpose would God have in creating non-moral and non-sentient creatures to suffer on distant planets?”

In conclusion, the Bible gives us no reason to believe that there is life elsewhere in the universe. In fact, the Bible gives us several key reasons why there cannot be. Yes, there are many strange and unexplainable things that take place. There is no reason, though, to attribute these phenomena to aliens or UFOs. If there is a discernable cause to these supposed events, it is likely to be spiritual, and more specifically, demonic, in origin."









						Are there such things as aliens or UFOs? | GotQuestions.org
					

Are there such things as aliens, extraterrestrials, or UFOs? Does the Bible say whether or not there is life on other planets (extraterrestrial)?



					www.gotquestions.org


----------



## james bond (Apr 1, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Very easy: Take a look to your forepaw - take a look at the hand of a gorilla - and ask yourselve "How came this similarity?" - and you will find answers. What did you not [like to] understand now? And why?


People who believe in wacko science such as evolution believe in wacko science of aliens.


----------



## james bond (Apr 1, 2022)

We've sent more probes to Mars in 2021 and still no aliens.

'Mars has never been home to anything that we consider life, a new study claims. About half the size of Earth, the Red Planet is the second smallest planet in the solar system. Scientists from the Washington University in St. Louis say it is so tiny, there would never have been enough water to start and sustain life.
“Mars’ fate was decided from the beginning,” says Kun Wang, assistant professor of earth and planetary sciences in Arts & Sciences in a university release. “There is likely a threshold on the size requirements of rocky planets to retain enough water to enable habitability and plate tectonics, with mass exceeding that of Mars.”

The findings are a setback for alien hunters. However, it could help identify planets outside the solar system that may actually host life. Some theories suggest Mars had more water than Earth billions of years ago, but the new study argues that this is unlikely.

Where did all the water go?​There certainly was _some_ water at one point on Mars, with the Viking orbiter, Curiosity, and Perseverance ground probes returning dramatic images of river valleys and flood channels. Today, Mars is a barren desert, while Earth is a “blue marble.” Previous theories blame solar radiation, or Mars’ magnetic field stripping the thick atmosphere. Dr. Wang and colleagues say the explanation for its drastic inhospitality is much more simple.
The team used stable isotopes of potassium (K) as a tracer to estimate volatile elements and compounds — including water — on planets. The analysis revealed that Mars lost more volatile substances than Earth during its formation, but not as much as smaller and drier bodies like the Moon and asteroids. Study authors also discovered the size of a planet and volatile substances have a strong connection to each other.

“The reason for far lower abundances of volatile elements and their compounds in differentiated planets than in primitive undifferentiated meteorites has been a longstanding question,” explains Katharina Lodders, research professor of earth and planetary sciences. “The finding of the correlation of K isotopic compositions with planet gravity is a novel discovery with important quantitative implications for when and how the differentiated planets received and lost their volatiles.”
Rewriting the history of Mars​Dr. Wang adds that Martian meteorites shed light on the chemical make-up of Mars.
“Those Martian meteorites have ages varying from several hundred millions to 4 billion years and recorded Mars’ volatile evolution history. Through measuring the isotopes of moderately volatile elements, such as potassium, we can infer the degree of volatile depletion of bulk planets and make comparisons between different solar system bodies.”

“It’s indisputable that there used to be liquid water on the surface of Mars, but how much water in total Mars once had is hard to quantify through remote sensing and rover studies alone,” Wang continues. “There are many models out there for the bulk water content of Mars. In some of them, early Mars was even wetter than the Earth. We don’t believe that was the case.”
Refining the search for alien life​The study has implications for the search for extraterrestrial life. Being too close to stars affects the amount of volatiles a planet or moon can retain. The measurement is factored into indexes of habitable — or “Goldilocks” — zones.
“This study emphasizes that there is a very limited size range for planets to have just enough but not too much water to develop a habitable surface environment,” says study co-author Klaus Mezger of the Center for Space and Habitability at the University of Bern in Switzerland. “These results will guide astronomers in their search for habitable exoplanets in other solar systems.”

The team believes size should be a key consideration when thinking about whether an exoplanet could support life.
“The size of an exoplanet is one of the parameters that is easiest to determine,” Wang concludes. “Based on size and mass, we now know whether an exoplanet is a candidate for life, because a first-order determining factor for volatile retention is size.”
The study appears in the journal _Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences_.
_South West News Service writer Mark Waghorn contributed to this report.'_









						No aliens on Mars? Planet may have been too small to sustain life
					

Scientists say Mars is so tiny, there would never have been enough water to start and sustain life.




					www.studyfinds.org


----------



## zaangalewa (Apr 1, 2022)

james bond said:


> . We've had _sci-fi_ for soooooooooo long. How many billions of years have I been right?



With "your" idea the natural law "evolution" is not existing? Never! Natural laws started immediatelly to exist together with the big bang about 13.8 billion years ago (current approximation).



james bond said:


> Evolution isn't true so no aliens.



What's a nonsensic sentence because you know nothing about aliens except human ideas about aliens. This belief has the same structure as the belief of the ancient Greeks in their gods.



james bond said:


> The evidence shows this.



Which concrete evidence for what?



james bond said:


> Not even a microbe



Strange. Aliens came from quastles not from microorganisms. Everyone knows this because this is evident.

Again: Takle a look at the hand of a gorilla and ask yourselve why your forepaw is not far from this very beautiful biological structure. And do not forget what's the main concept of evolution which I would describe with the words: _"All living structures have a common root - except they are created." _The whole racist nonsense of Darwinism stops immediatelly when you compare yourselve with Hugo, the concrete tree who you gave this or another name. Hugo and you have a common ancestor. Ask Saint Francis! Hugo is by the way very proud that "they" made a piano out of his grandfather. Often he tells this vision to the other trees.


----------



## zaangalewa (Apr 1, 2022)

james bond said:


> While a gorilla's hands and human's hands have similarities, they are different is size and how they are used.  Gorillas use them for walking.  Thus, they are different species and did not evolve.  Besides, they both exist today.
> 
> I'll assume you gave up on aliens as you're back to monkey stories.



You try to tell yourselve nonsense and to believe this nonsense - what's impossible. No human being alone is able to be so stupid. This needs organiced stupidity.


----------



## james bond (Apr 2, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> You try to tell yourselve nonsense and to believe this nonsense - what's impossible. No human being alone is able to be so stupid. This needs organiced stupidity.


zanngalewa:  Soy un perdedor.

You have no evidence for what you believe happens.  There are no transitional fossils (millions of years) nor skeletons.   Besides, we still have both humans and gorillas today.  Thus, no macroevolution happened.

I'm tired of the evos.  You can't show macroevolution and have no evidence of aliens, so it's not science.  It's wacko science.  You should be upset and angry like Colin norris .  No one likes to be wrong all the time like him lol.

I even presented my UC Berkeley website on evolution. In it, it does not state humans from monkeys, but presents a hypothesis.  It's based on those papers I told you atheist scientists wrote.  OTOH, God and the Bible explained what happened correctly.  It's not a hypothesis nor theory.  It's fact.


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## toobfreak (Apr 2, 2022)

Domino said:


> 1. the path to the planet on which intelligent life is possible about 5 million light years.



Fool, there are over 30 galaxies within 5 million light years.


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## james bond (Apr 2, 2022)

toobfreak said:


> Fool, there are over 30 galaxies within 5 million light years.


Sure, but we've learned that most of them cannot support any kind of life.  It takes a special planet.  In our solar system, we may have only one other as a moon of Jupiter, Europa, but it's icy.  It may be too cold to live on.


----------



## zaangalewa (Apr 2, 2022)

james bond said:


> zanngalewa:  Soy un perdedor.
> 
> You have no evidence for what you believe happens.  There are no transitional fossils (millions of years) nor skeletons.   Besides, we still have both humans and gorillas today.  Thus, no macroevolution happened.



It is nonsense (=makes not any sense) what you say here.



james bond said:


> I'm tired of the evos.  You can't show macroevolution and have no evidence of aliens, so it's not science.



Aliens are science fiction and evolution is a natural phenomeneon which is easy to see if someone is using methods of natural science. Easy example for evolution: "Birkenspanner" (you call them "peppered moth") have a similar color like birchbark. This helps them not to be seen from their natural enemies (The German word "Fressfeinde" describes this situation much better). In times of the early industrialization in some areas the birchs became dirty. So more peppered moths survived who had darker wings.



james bond said:


> It's wacko science.  You should be upset and angry like Colin norris .  No one likes to be wrong all the time like him lol.
> 
> I even presented my UC Berkeley website on evolution. In it, it does not state humans from monkeys, but presents a hypothesis.  It's based on those papers I told you atheist scientists wrote.  OTOH, God and the Bible explained what happened correctly.  It's not a hypothesis nor theory.  It's fact.



You speak nonsense. Nearly not any Christian in the whole world believes the bullshit which you say.


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## james bond (Apr 2, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> It is nonsense (=makes not any sense) what you say here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why didn't you say aliens are _sci-fi_ in the first place? I'm not a mind reader. Then, we agree on that part. People saying they "could" exist because of the number of planets is not science. One has to find what constitutes habitable conditions for a planet (for humans usually) and then provide some examples. We have Europa in our solar system to explore, but it may be too icy and cold.


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## AMart (Apr 2, 2022)

The aliens that have been to Earth, or are still around are from the 
Zeta Reticuli system, 2 stars not 1.​


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 2, 2022)

AMart said:


> The aliens that have been to Earth, or are still around are from the
> Zeta Reticuli system, 2 stars not 1.​


Isn't that the myth the fraud who claims to have worked at area 51 made up?


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## zaangalewa (Apr 2, 2022)

james bond said:


> Why didn't you say aliens are _sci-fi_ in the first place?



We know nothing about ETs. They are fiction.



james bond said:


> I'm not a mind reader.



You use language so you could be a mind reader like everyone else. That you are a prisoner of this what you think it is your own mind is another problem, anti-Christian.



james bond said:


> Then, we agree on that part.



I agree with nothing what you say. You are an extremist - I'm only able to think also in extreme situations and structures - what's a totally different thing. I respect everyone.



james bond said:


> People saying they "could" exist because of the number of planets



That's a serios argument and possibility.



james bond said:


> is not science.



Nearly nothing is science on its own what leads to a scientific research. And your way not to argue has absolutelly nothing to do with science. You are an ideologist.



james bond said:


> One has to find what constitutes habitable conditions for a planet (for humans usually) and then provide some examples.



What others have to do or not to do is only a problem if other people are criminal.



james bond said:


> We have Europa in our solar system to explore, but it may be too icy and cold.



If someone likes to know more about the moon Europa, why not?


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## james bond (Apr 2, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> We know nothing about ETs. They are fiction.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


zaangalewa: Soy un perdedor

You've gone off the deep end of evolution and agnosticism.


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## zaangalewa (Apr 3, 2022)

james bond said:


> zaangalewa: Soy un perdedor
> 
> You've gone off the deep end of evolution and agnosticism.



You don't know what is evolution and you don't know what is agnosticism - but you are an allknowing pseudo-Christian.


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## james bond (Apr 3, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> You don't know what is evolution and you don't know what is agnosticism - but you are an allknowing pseudo-Christian.


I know both evolution and agnosticism and do not practice either; Soy un ganador.

While you are a peredor.  Be prepared for your abomination of desolation.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 3, 2022)

Sectarian slapfights go in the religion section.


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## Ringo (Apr 6, 2022)




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## Ralph Norton (Apr 6, 2022)

james bond said:


> Let us look at the overwhelming evidence for NO aliens:
> 
> "1. Men have sent spacecraft to nearly every planet in our solar system. After observing these planets, we have ruled out all but Mars and possibly a moon of Jupiter as being able to support life.
> 
> ...


Your entire post is evidence of NOTHING regarding the possible existence of "aliens'.


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## james bond (Apr 6, 2022)

Ralph Norton said:


> Your entire post is evidence of NOTHING regarding the possible existence of "aliens'.


What do you have as evidence for aliens?  

The solar wind is too harsh for life.  No life can exist in outer space.  We can't live on the moon nor Mars for long.  A planet that can host life would need protection and there are no other planets in our solar system that has the protection except Earth.  Europa may be a possibility, but it's too far from the sun so I think it's too cold.


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