# Israeli Army Forces Enter Gaza, Open Fire On Palestinian Farmers



## P F Tinmore (Oct 2, 2014)

Earlier there was a report of Israel shooting at Palestinian fisherman. Now there is another Israeli attack in spite of a cease fire.
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Gaza City, October 2 (RHC)-- Israeli army vehicles have entered the southern Gaza Strip and soldiers opened fire on Palestinian agricultural areas in a flagrant violation of a recent ceasefire agreement.

According to reports, at least a dozen Israeli military vehicles entered Gaza from a gate east of the southern city of Khan Yunis on Wednesday, crossing some 200 meters into the Palestinian territory.

Israeli soldiers then fired shots on Palestinian farms. Witnesses say the assault, which occurred in the early morning, forced agricultural workers to leave their lands. No injuries have been reported so far.

Earlier this week, Israeli military forces shot and injured a Palestinian farmer in northern Gaza near a fence separating Israeli-occupied territories from the blockaded coastal enclave. An Israeli military spokesperson claimed the farmer had come too close to the border fence.

Radio Havana Cuba Israeli Army Forces Enter Gaza Open Fire on Palestinian Farmers


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## Hossfly (Oct 2, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Earlier there was a report of Israel shooting at Palestinian fisherman. Now there is another Israeli attack in spite of a cease fire.
> ---------------------------
> Gaza City, October 2 (RHC)-- Israeli army vehicles have entered the southern Gaza Strip and soldiers opened fire on Palestinian agricultural areas in a flagrant violation of a recent ceasefire agreement.
> 
> ...


What was the provacation that caused the IDF to react, Pinmore?


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 2, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> > Earlier there was a report of Israel shooting at Palestinian fisherman. Now there is another Israeli attack in spite of a cease fire.
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I don't know.

Isn't it your job to give Israel's excuses?


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## toastman (Oct 2, 2014)

Radio Havana? WTF kind of bogus source is that??

Do pro Palestinians really expect us to believe that Israel just drives up to farmers and shoot at them for absolutely no reason whatsoever??


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## toastman (Oct 2, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


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Isn't it your job to make up bullshit allegations about the IDF?


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## BlackFlag (Oct 2, 2014)

The Israel-Gaza situation is fucked.  There are no good guys on either side.

Unfortunately any good guys will be completely shouted down on both sides by the bad ones.

And we'll still be talking about this in 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, and so on and so on and so on.


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## Beelzebub (Oct 3, 2014)

BlackFlag said:


> The Israel-Gaza situation is fucked.  There are no good guys on either side.
> 
> Unfortunately any good guys will be completely shouted down on both sides by the bad ones.
> 
> And we'll still be talking about this in 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, and so on and so on and so on.



That fatalistic approach says "do nothing".
The reality is not as you describe it.  Israel has the force, the (inappropriate) political and military backing, and the technology to pull back to the 1967 borders and to stay secure.

Palestinians only have the choice of dying now, or dying tomorrow at the hands of the repressive, genocidal Israeli regime.

Boycott Israel, pressure your politicians to pressure them, and press Israel to choose the only alternative to continuous ethnic cleansing and gradual genocide.  Israel has all the choices.  Palestinians can only be exterminated slowly or quickly, if Israel is allowed to continue.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Earlier there was a report of Israel shooting at Palestinian fisherman. Now there is another Israeli attack in spite of a cease fire.
> ---------------------------
> Gaza City, October 2 (RHC)-- Israeli army vehicles have entered the southern Gaza Strip and soldiers opened fire on Palestinian agricultural areas in a flagrant violation of a recent ceasefire agreement.
> 
> ...


Blahblah. Palistanian "fishermen", "fishing" war materiel, and palistanian "farmers", "farming" landmines and tunnels. The usual palistanian occupations, indeed.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

toastman said:


> Radio Havana?


Rrrrradio Havana!! [cue] Me gusta marijuana, me gustas tu. Me gusta colombiana, me gustas tu.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

BlackFlag said:


> The Israel-Gaza situation is fucked.  There are no good guys on either side. Unfortunately any good guys will be completely shouted down on both sides by the bad ones. And we'll still be talking about this in 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, and so on and so on and so on.


Obscure drivel.


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## BlackFlag (Oct 3, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> Obscure drivel.



Whoa nice font.  Your opinion must be soooo important.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> Palestinians only have the choice of dying now, or dying tomorrow at the hands of the repressive, genocidal Israeli regime.


It's the palistanian karma. Their bad deeds, shaping their bad future, of course.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

BlackFlag said:


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It always is, of course.


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## Challenger (Oct 3, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> > Earlier there was a report of Israel shooting at Palestinian fisherman. Now there is another Israeli attack in spite of a cease fire.
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So the cycle starts again. The Zionists have been doing this since the 1930's; small unit drives through a village at night, shoots it up. Locals are incensed and retaliate against a Zionist settlement. Zionists bleat about "unprovoked agression by Arabs" and the Haganah stages a massive "retaliatory" attack on the village. Only difference today is that we live in a digital age of instant news. The Zionists can no longer hide in the dark, so they don't bother any more (why should they, their Uncle Sam covers their arses); so they attack and make up some excuse for the benefit of their gullable American "allies".


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

Challenger said:


> So the cycle starts again. The Zionists have been doing this since the 1930's; small unit drives through a village at night, shoots it up. Locals are incensed and retaliate against a Zionist settlement. Zionists bleat about "unprovoked agression by Arabs" and the Haganah stages a massive "retaliatory" attack on the village. Only difference today is that we live in a digital age of instant news. The Zionists can no longer hide in the dark, so they don't bother any more (why should they, their Uncle Sam covers their arses); so they attack and make up some excuse for the benefit of their gullable American "allies".


Funny! Who made that up?


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## Billo_Really (Oct 3, 2014)

toastman said:


> Radio Havana? WTF kind of bogus source is that??
> 
> Do pro Palestinians really expect us to believe that Israel just drives up to farmers and shoot at them for absolutely no reason whatsoever??


Listen you fucking dumbass, that's exactly what we believe!  And that's exactly what they do!


How many times do you have to be shown this shit, before you have the balls to admit it?


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## Billo_Really (Oct 3, 2014)

I see forum Zionists never miss a chance to show the world just how big of an asshole, they happen to be.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> How many times do you have to be shown this shit, before you have the balls to admit it?


We don't use shit.


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## Challenger (Oct 3, 2014)

Just so we get it all documented when Bibi and Zionist JSIL launch their next "Operation: Mowing the Lawn" on Gaza

Israeli Soldiers Shoot Another Child In Gaza Breaking Ceasefire


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## Challenger (Oct 3, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


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Probably because you're full of it.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

Challenger said:


> Just so we get it all documented when Bibi and Zionist JSIL launch their next "Operation: Mowing the Lawn" on Gaza Israeli Soldiers Shoot Another Child In Gaza Breaking Ceasefire


Ah! We see "_image used for illustrative purposes_" hidden in the brackets! Where's "All characters and events, appearing in this work, are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental." disclaimer!?


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

Challenger said:


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We don't use shit, "you" do, of course.


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## Daniyel (Oct 3, 2014)

Radio Copagavana false propaganda promoting lies.


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## Penelope (Oct 3, 2014)

Challenger said:


> Just so we get it all documented when Bibi and Zionist JSIL launch their next "Operation: Mowing the Lawn" on Gaza
> 
> Israeli Soldiers Shoot Another Child In Gaza Breaking Ceasefire



funny how they can shoot and bully  kids around but not go to Syria and fight the ISIS terrorists.


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## Penelope (Oct 3, 2014)

Israeli military vehicles enter Gaza, soldiers open fire at farms

GAZA CITY (Ma'an) -- Israeli military vehicles entered the southern Gaza Strip early Wednesday and soldiers opened fire towards Palestinian agricultural areas, locals told Ma'an.

Israeli forces declare Nablus-area village closed military zone
NABLUS (Ma’an) – Israeli forces on Thursday morning declared the northern West Bank village of Burin south of Nablus a closed military zone until further notice.

HEBRON (Ma’an) -- Israeli forces on Wednesday evening stormed a Palestinian home in al-Arrub refugee camp north of Hebron in the southern West Bank and assaulted family members.

The owner Khamis Awad al-Badawi, 59, told Ma'an that Israeli soldiers broke into his home and damaged parts of the interior before they ascended to the rooftop.

Israeli forces assault family in Hebron camp Maan News Agency


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

Penelope said:


> funny how they can shoot and bully  kids around but not go to Syria and fight the ISIS terrorists.


Bad arab karma, indeed.


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## Penelope (Oct 3, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> Penelope said:
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I'm talking about the IDF. Don't quote half my sentence.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

Penelope said:


> Israeli military vehicles enter Gaza, soldiers open fire at farms GAZA CITY (Ma'an) -- Israeli military vehicles entered the southern Gaza Strip early Wednesday and soldiers opened fire towards Palestinian agricultural areas, locals told Ma'an. Israeli forces declare Nablus-area village closed military zone
> NABLUS (Ma’an) – Israeli forces on Thursday morning declared the northern West Bank village of Burin south of Nablus a closed military zone until further notice. HEBRON (Ma’an) -- Israeli forces on Wednesday evening stormed a Palestinian home in al-Arrub refugee camp north of Hebron in the southern West Bank and assaulted family members. The owner Khamis Awad al-Badawi, 59, told Ma'an that Israeli soldiers broke into his home and damaged parts of the interior before they ascended to the rooftop. Israeli forces assault family in Hebron camp Maan News Agency[/url]


[yawn] Made holes in their tent, drank all beer and ate steaks from their grill.


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## Challenger (Oct 3, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


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Ah, anally retentive, now I understand.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

Penelope said:


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Obsessing with it is, indeed, part of the bad arab karma too.


Penelope said:


> Don't quote half my sentence.


So, where's the other half of it? Did the iron dome blew it up?


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## Challenger (Oct 3, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


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> > Just so we get it all documented when Bibi and Zionist JSIL launch their next "Operation: Mowing the Lawn" on Gaza Israeli Soldiers Shoot Another Child In Gaza Breaking Ceasefire
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"_image used for illustrative purposes_"...?  Why not, there are so many instances to chose from. Just because they pick a random image if Zionist JSIL brutality to illustrate a point, doesn't mean the event reported never took place.


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## Billo_Really (Oct 3, 2014)

Daniyel said:


> Radio Copagavana false propaganda promoting lies.


Then why can't you prove they're lies?


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## Daniyel (Oct 3, 2014)

Lets make this thread fun, you know..*listening to the same lies from MA'AN AGENCY..*


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## aris2chat (Oct 3, 2014)

toastman said:


> Radio Havana? WTF kind of bogus source is that??
> 
> Do pro Palestinians really expect us to believe that Israel just drives up to farmers and shoot at them for absolutely no reason whatsoever??



it is from iranian tv that the story was picked up


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## Penelope (Oct 3, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


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Your right but you knew that comment was about the IDF's. So here I'll rephrase:

Funny how the IDF can bully and shoot kids and not go to Syria and fight the ISIS terrorists.


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## Phoenall (Oct 3, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> BlackFlag said:
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> > The Israel-Gaza situation is fucked.  There are no good guys on either side.
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 What 1967 borders would these be then, as none have ever existed. Do you mean the UN ceasefire lines that the Palestinians like to keep breaching ?

 Boycott islam, protest outside your local mosque by having a hog roast every Friday afternoon. Contact your local representatives and ask what they are doing about the ethnic cleansing of 10% of the Palestinian population by the Palestinians because they are Christians.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

Challenger said:


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It's called *palistanian agitprop*, i.e. agitation and propaganda, indeed, tying a pic of the palistanian misbehaving brat, being apprehended, to get credence to lies, of course. Typical.


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## Phoenall (Oct 3, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
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 How many more times do you have to be told that the video does not show any weapons fire from the soldiers that cant even be identified. The birds sit there happily all the time the shots are being fired showing that the video was dubbed at a later date. Try getting something with more evidence next time you nasty old Nazi as this old video falls at the first hurdle.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Daniyel said:
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Funny! Why can't they prove it's the real deal?


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## Phoenall (Oct 3, 2014)

Challenger said:


> Just so we get it all documented when Bibi and Zionist JSIL launch their next "Operation: Mowing the Lawn" on Gaza
> 
> Israeli Soldiers Shoot Another Child In Gaza Breaking Ceasefire




 So it is an unsubstantiated report that could just as easily have been an accidental discharge of a weapon the boy was carrying. No concrete evidence other than "Palestinian sources"


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## Phoenall (Oct 3, 2014)

Penelope said:


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 Funny how the Palestinians can make unsubstantiated claims and team Palestine believes them even when later shown to be LIES.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

Challenger said:


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Ah, one of the proud amateur proctologists! There's a name for them too and they're quite odoriferously vocal in the californian Bowel Discharge Shit chapter, indeed.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

Penelope said:


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It's the bad arab karma. What's there not to understand? Besides, if palistanians don't get some "kid" shot, whom will they drag around the same block for TV? [cue The Queen, Show Must Go On]


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## montelatici (Oct 3, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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Palistan is 430 km. from the sea.  What fishermen?

"Palistan is located just off the Crowie Creek in central New South Wales a distance of about 440km west-northwest from Sydney (show me). Palistan is at an altitude of approximately 246m. The nearest sea is the Tasman Sea which is part of the South Pacific Ocean about 430km east-southeast of Palistan."

Map of Palistan in New South Wales - Bonzle Digital Atlas of Australia


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## toastman (Oct 3, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
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> > Radio Havana? WTF kind of bogus source is that??
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You deluded pro Palestinians believe ANYTHING you read about Israel, as long as it's negative. You're being taken to the cleaners and you don't even realize it. It's not my failt you're all a bunch of brainwashed sheep.


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## toastman (Oct 3, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> I see forum Zionists never miss a chance to show the world just how big of an asshole, they happen to be.



Haha look who's talking! 

BTW, You won $1 000 000 (that's 1 million dollars since you probably didn't know)
Send $5000 dollars to my account, and you will receive the prize.


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## toastman (Oct 3, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


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Genocidal regime 
That one never gets old.


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## montelatici (Oct 3, 2014)

toastman said:


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It is you that have been brainwashed.  Propaganda in the U.S. is all pro-Israel starting from elementary school.  Any of us that have been able to resist brainwashing are the opposite of you and your brainwashed clowns.

By the way, will you believe Jewish media?

"Twelve military vehicles entered the Gaza strip on Wednesday in the Khan Younis district, witnesses told the Ma’an news gaency.........Ma’an reported that a Palestinian farmer was shot and injured.."



"IDF Convoy Enters Gaza Shoots to Discourage Arab Interference 8211 Jewish Business News


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## toastman (Oct 3, 2014)

montelatici said:


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Again Monti, anyone who reads your or any of the other pro Palestinian sources can see who is brainwashed. Day after day you spew the same deluded crap. 
You are a propaganda machine, so you really have no right to call anyone else brainwshed. Keep distorting history deluded sheep. 
BTW, my entire family lives in Israel and I have been there over ten times in 29 years. I see the picture a lot better than idiot pro Palestinians who can't comprehend that you real what you sow


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## toastman (Oct 3, 2014)

montelatici said:


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BTW I live in Canada.


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## teddyearp (Oct 3, 2014)

montelatici said:


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> > <SNIP> *Palistanian* <snip> palistanian <snip> palistanian <snip>
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Hey Sara, before you do your spell checking worthless posts (again) why not make sure what the person actually wrote first.


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## teddyearp (Oct 3, 2014)

An interesting note about the picture in the OP's link.  It has been used nine other times since 2009. The article in the OP's link doesn't say anything about it being a 'file' picture.


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## Phoenall (Oct 3, 2014)

montelatici said:


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 How about the ones that fish for Crowie Creek trout, totally inedible and give of a foul odour when removed from the water.


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## Phoenall (Oct 3, 2014)

montelatici said:


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## montelatici (Oct 3, 2014)

toastman said:


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Of course, your family is part of the colonial enterprise and so you see the picture "a lot better".  That's like saying the European settlers saw the picture "a lot better" as they were murdering Native Americans.  It would have been better if you kept your mouth shut, clown.  Now we know where you are coming from.  You are not a neutral, you are an ideologue.  I am a European Catholic a neutral observer.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Palistan is 430 km. from the sea.  What fishermen? "Palistan is located just off the Crowie Creek in central New South Wales a distance of about 440km west-northwest from Sydney (show me). Palistan is at an altitude of approximately 246m. The nearest sea is the Tasman Sea which is part of the South Pacific Ocean about 430km east-southeast of Palistan."Map of Palistan in New South Wales - Bonzle Digital Atlas of Australia


Indeed, what "fishermen" was our honorable P F Tinmore babbling about?


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## toastman (Oct 3, 2014)

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Colonialists LOL! You're too much for me. Since you seem to know so much about my family, tell me where most of them came from please moron. 
I don't want you to keep your mouth shut, because I want people to see what a brainwashdd Palestinian fool you are.
And you're a Muslim, we all know that already. Don't lie, even though it's part of your religion.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

montelatici said:


> "Twelve military vehicles entered the Gaza strip on Wednesday in the Khan Younis district, witnesses told the Ma’an news gaency.........Ma’an reported that a Palestinian farmer was shot and injured.."


The Texas guvner reported no such thing, of course.


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## montelatici (Oct 3, 2014)

toastman said:


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What else can you call people that leave one continent and settle on another and expel the people that were living there?

I am a practicing Roman Catholic, and have received all the Sacraments but one, but there would be no shame in being a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist or whatever religion.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

montelatici said:


> What else can you call people that leave one continent and settle on another and expel the people that were living there? I am a practicing Roman Catholic, and have received all the Sacraments but one, but there would be no shame in being a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist or whatever religion.


Hilarious drivel!


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

montelatici said:


> ... I am a practicing Roman Catholic, ...


And I'm a Roman Legatus Legionis.


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## montelatici (Oct 3, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


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As you may be able to tell from my name, I am of  Italian heritage, so I would be far more likely to have  a Roman ancestor that commanded a Legion  than you.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

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[yawn]


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## toastman (Oct 3, 2014)

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Wow, you're leaving a lot of information out. Your take on history is terrible.


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## toastman (Oct 3, 2014)

If any of the pro Palestinian idiots woukd have read the whole article that Monti posted, they would read that the vehicles were there to prevent tunnels from reaching Israel. How soon you morons forget that right after the war ended, Hamas said that they had already started building tunnels.


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## montelatici (Oct 3, 2014)

toastman said:


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Please indicate what has been left out.


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## montelatici (Oct 3, 2014)

toastman said:


> If any of the pro Palestinian idiots woukd have read the whole article that Monti posted, they would read that the vehicles were there to prevent tunnels from reaching Israel. How soon you morons forget that right after the war ended, Hamas said that they had already started building tunnels.



So what, they shot and injured a farmer who had nothing to do with digging tunnels.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

montelatici said:


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> ...


Who made that up? The alleged "farmer", or anyone else?


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## toastman (Oct 3, 2014)

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The wars that the Palestinians started which resulted in their expulsion.


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## montelatici (Oct 3, 2014)

toastman said:


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How can that be?  The Jews went to Palestine from Europe, another continent.  How can defending one's land be considered starting a war? Logic is not your forte', is it.


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 3, 2014)

montelatici said:


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*Post of the day!*


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## Hossfly (Oct 3, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


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## toastman (Oct 3, 2014)

montelatici said:


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Attacking people and instigating a war has consequences. When Palestinians attack Israel, it's always self decence, but the other way around is always agression to you. 
However, the Jews only started attacking Arabs in response to Arabs attacking them (I say Arabs because they were not referred to as Palestinians then)
Then 5 Arab states invaded the region and statted a huge war which resulted in the expulsion of Palestinians (some left their villages at the order of Arab leaders). 
I'm not surprised that I have to explain this to you. 
Stop buying your history books from the Hamas book store.


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## Billo_Really (Oct 3, 2014)

toastman said:


> Attacking people and instigating a war has consequences. When Palestinians attack Israel, it's always self decence, but the other way around is always agression to you.
> However, the Jews only started attacking Arabs in response to Arabs attacking them (I say Arabs because they were not referred to as Palestinians then)
> Then 5 Arab states invaded the region and statted a huge war which resulted in the expulsion of Palestinians (some left their villages at the order of Arab leaders).
> I'm not surprised that I have to explain this to you.
> Stop buying your history books from the Hamas book store.


Since you can't deal with history on its own terms, you are mentally incapable of explaining anything to anyone.

The arab states went in to ensure the inalienable rights of the indigenous, non-Jewish population, that migrating Zionists refused to honor.  Those arab states would not have attacked if it wasn't for the actions of Jewish terrorist groups like Irgun and Hanagan.

BTW, in case anyone doesn't know, LA Rules!


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## Billo_Really (Oct 3, 2014)

toastman said:


> You deluded pro Palestinians believe ANYTHING you read about Israel, as long as it's negative. You're being taken to the cleaners and you don't even realize it. It's not my failt you're all a bunch of brainwashed sheep.


Um................you don't read a video!


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## Billo_Really (Oct 3, 2014)

Daniyel said:


> Lets make this thread fun, you know..*listening to the same lies from MA'AN AGENCY..*


I never liked Barely Man-a-nuff!


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## Billo_Really (Oct 3, 2014)

toastman said:


> Haha look who's talking!
> 
> BTW, You won $1 000 000 (that's 1 million dollars since you probably didn't know)
> Send $5000 dollars to my account, and you will receive the prize.


That's what all these little bitches don't realize, it won't do any good trying to be an asshole to me, because I'm a bigger prick than all of them!


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## montelatici (Oct 3, 2014)

toastman said:


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> ...



The coalition of Arab states was much like the coalition trying to stop ISIS.  The Jews were the ISIS of the time, attacking, expelling and murdering non-Jews.  The Jews were aliens from Europe that were intent on establishing a Jewish run state, much like the Caliphate that ISIS are now trying to establish as a fundamentalist Muslim state.

The Christians and Muslims were expelled by the Jews.  They did not leave voluntarily.  Grow up you little pissant.


----------



## toastman (Oct 3, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Attacking people and instigating a war has consequences. When Palestinians attack Israel, it's always self decence, but the other way around is always agression to you.
> ...



Yes, the 5 Arab states amstarted the war. They attacked Israel, not the other way around. And maybe one of their intentions was to ensure the rights of the non Jews (bullshit), BUT one of their other intentions was definitely to destroy Israel and push the Jews to the sea, as they had threatened right before the war.
BTW, those Jewish 'terrorist' groups would not have come into existence had the Arabs not attacked the local Jews.


----------



## toastman (Oct 3, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



'The coalition of Arab states was much like the coalition trying to stop ISIS. The Jews were the ISIS of the time'

     HAHAHAHAHAHA!!

OMG you deluded MORON! I haven't laughed like that in a while! 
Just when I thought your credibility couldn't get any worse!
Monti, you are.....well...just plain stupid!


----------



## toastman (Oct 3, 2014)

'The Jews were aliens from Europe that were intent on establishing a Jewish run state, much like the Caliphate that ISIS are now trying to establish as a fundamentalist Muslim state.'

Stop it just stop it!! You have to warn me next time you're going to post something as stupid as this.


----------



## toastman (Oct 3, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Attacking people and instigating a war has consequences. When Palestinians attack Israel, it's always self decence, but the other way around is always agression to you.
> ...





Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Attacking people and instigating a war has consequences. When Palestinians attack Israel, it's always self decence, but the other way around is always agression to you.
> ...



BTW, do you like Bryan Adams NOW?


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 3, 2014)

toastman said:


> The wars that the Palestinians started which resulted in their expulsion.


Here's the 411 you dumbass dolt, if you and your family have been living in the same place for the last 2000 years and one day some big mouth asshole shows up at your door and say's your house is his, because his religion said so, you're not the one who started the war!


----------



## Hossfly (Oct 3, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > The wars that the Palestinians started which resulted in their expulsion.
> ...


Es machts nicht, Bully.


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 3, 2014)

toastman said:


> Yes, the 5 Arab states amstarted the war. They attacked Israel, not the other way around. And maybe one of their intentions was to ensure the rights of the non Jews (bullshit), BUT one of their other intentions was definitely to destroy Israel and push the Jews to the sea, as they had threatened right before the war.
> BTW, those Jewish 'terrorist' groups would not have come into existence had the Arabs not attacked the local Jews.


Unfortunately, that's not what happened.



> _The decision on the Mandate *did not take into account the wishes of the people of Palestine*, despite the Covenant's requirements that "the wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory".
> 
> *The indigenous people of Palestine, whose forefathers had inhabited the land for virtually the two preceding millennia felt this design to be a violation of their natural and inalienable rights.* They also viewed it as an infringement of assurances of independence given by the Allied Powers to Arab leaders in return for their support during the war. *The result was mounting resistance to the Mandate by Palestinian Arabs, followed by resort to violence by the Jewish community* as the Second World War drew to a close_.


The mounting resistance to an unfair Mandate, followed by a* "resort to violence" *by the Jewish community.

The historical record clearly shows it was the Jewish community who started all the violence.  Now, fuck off!

Regards,
*Billo*


----------



## Hossfly (Oct 3, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, the 5 Arab states amstarted the war. They attacked Israel, not the other way around. And maybe one of their intentions was to ensure the rights of the non Jews (bullshit), BUT one of their other intentions was definitely to destroy Israel and push the Jews to the sea, as they had threatened right before the war.
> ...


Who told you those lies, Billo?


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 3, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Who told you those lies, Billo?


I posted the link.  You can't go read it for yourself?  Oh, I forgot, you're from Texas!  That explains everything.  Fuck Texas!  I hate Texas, more than I do Israel.


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 3, 2014)

Billo_Really,  _et al,_

I don't read and interpret it the same.



Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, the 5 Arab states amstarted the war. They attacked Israel, not the other way around. And maybe one of their intentions was to ensure the rights of the non Jews (bullshit), BUT one of their other intentions was definitely to destroy Israel and push the Jews to the sea, as they had threatened right before the war.
> ...


(COMMENT)

First, your "quote" on the selection of the Mandate has nothing to do with the Issue.  In fact, who would have the Palestinians chose as a Mandatory if not the UK?

Second, it says the Arab Palestinian resistance to the Mandate was "followed by" a* "resort to violence" *by the Jewish community.

TIMELINE:

April 4–7 - The 1920 Palestine riots – violent 4-day riot against the Jews in Jerusalem's Old City. Muhammad Amin Al-Husayni was charged with inciting the Arab crowds with an inflammatory speech and sentenced by military court held _in camera_ (private) to ten years imprisonment _in absentia_, since he had already violated his bail by fleeing to Transjordan to avoid arrest.

May 1–7 1921- Jaffa riots resulted in the deaths of 47 Jews and 48 Arabs, with 146 Jews and 73 Arabs being wounded. Most Arab casualties resulted from clashes with British forces attempting to restore order.[15] Thousands of Jewish residents of Jaffa fled for Tel Aviv and were temporarily housed in tent camps on the beach.​

October 4 1923 - Secretary of State for the Colonies, the Duke of Devonshire, proposes the setting up of an Arab Agency to have equivalent status to the Jewish Agency.



December 11 1923 - Arab Agency unanimously rejected by Palestinian Arab leaders.

The 1929 Palestine riots erupt due to a dispute between Muslims and Jews over access to the Western Wall. 133 Jews killed and 339 wounded (mostly by Arabs); 116 Arabs killed and 232 wounded (mostly by British-commanded police and soldiers).​

1929 Hebron massacre: 67 Jews are massacred by Arabs. Many incidents of rape, torture, and mutilation are reported.

1930 - The Black Hand Islamist group, led by Syrian Shaykh Izz ad-Din al-Qassam begins a campaign against Jewish civilians and the British in Mandatory Palestine.​I'm not sure what Timeline you are using, but maybe you can enlighten me again on which violent event the Jewish took first.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hossfly (Oct 3, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Billo_Really,  _et al,_
> 
> I don't read and interpret it the same.
> 
> ...


"December 11 1923 - Arab Agency unanimously rejected by Palestinian Arab leaders."

Sounds familiar.


----------



## toastman (Oct 4, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, the 5 Arab states amstarted the war. They attacked Israel, not the other way around. And maybe one of their intentions was to ensure the rights of the non Jews (bullshit), BUT one of their other intentions was definitely to destroy Israel and push the Jews to the sea, as they had threatened right before the war.
> ...



Idiot, we're talking about the 5 Arab states surrounding Israel. They had nothing to do with the Israel-Palestinian hostilities. The day after Israel declared independence, they attacked. Wtf is so hard to understand about this? Are you brain dead? You cannot re write history. I win. You lose. Again


----------



## toastman (Oct 4, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Billo_Really,  _et al,_
> 
> I don't read and interpret it the same.
> 
> ...



Excellent post Rocco. I have, on many occassions posted those attacks against Jews that you did to show the deluded pro Palestinians who really started the violence. Their excuse is always that those attacks were justified resistance because the Jews were trying to take over their 'country'. But when Jewish attacks against Arabs are brought up, they are made out to be initial agression .


----------



## theliq (Oct 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Earlier there was a report of Israel shooting at Palestinian fisherman. Now there is another Israeli attack in spite of a cease fire.
> ---------------------------
> Gaza City, October 2 (RHC)-- Israeli army vehicles have entered the southern Gaza Strip and soldiers opened fire on Palestinian agricultural areas in a flagrant violation of a recent ceasefire agreement.
> 
> ...




Typical....Nothing Changes Tinnie,steve


----------



## theliq (Oct 4, 2014)

theliq said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Earlier there was a report of Israel shooting at Palestinian fisherman. Now there is another Israeli attack in spite of a cease fire.
> ...


Toastie by the way.....you are not a Winner.........how silly


----------



## Hossfly (Oct 4, 2014)

theliq said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Earlier there was a report of Israel shooting at Palestinian fisherman. Now there is another Israeli attack in spite of a cease fire.
> ...


Steve, you do realize you're an enabler, don't you?


----------



## theliq (Oct 4, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Earlier there was a report of Israel shooting at Palestinian fisherman. Now there is another Israeli attack in spite of a cease fire.
> ...


None as USUAL Hoss


----------



## theliq (Oct 4, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Too fcuking right I am Hoss ........LOL......you can now address me as "steveIam" or siam.........................good init  LOL


----------



## toastman (Oct 4, 2014)

theliq said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



You did a great job proving so liqy


----------



## toastman (Oct 4, 2014)

theliq said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Oh, you were there? Wow liqy! Tell us more about your visit to Israel!


----------



## Youch (Oct 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Earlier there was a report of Israel shooting at Palestinian fisherman. Now there is another Israeli attack in spite of a cease fire.
> ---------------------------
> Gaza City, October 2 (RHC)-- Israeli army vehicles have entered the southern Gaza Strip and soldiers opened fire on Palestinian agricultural areas in a flagrant violation of a recent ceasefire agreement.
> 
> ...




What kind of radical listens to Cuban radio?  Worse yet, who would believe such nonsense?


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 4, 2014)

toastman said:


> Excellent post Rocco. I have, on many occassions posted those attacks against Jews that you did to show the deluded pro Palestinians who really started the violence. Their excuse is always that those attacks were justified resistance because the Jews were trying to take over their 'country'. But when Jewish attacks against Arabs are brought up, they are made out to be initial agression .


That's because Palestinian-Jews and Palestinian-Arabs lived for century's in that area side-by-side, peacefully, with no recorded events of major violence between the two groups, until the Zionist migration at the turn of the last century.

That pretty much proves Zionists imported the violence along with their illegal immigration into the area.


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 4, 2014)

toastman said:


> Idiot, we're talking about the 5 Arab states surrounding Israel. They had nothing to do with the Israel-Palestinian hostilities. The day after Israel declared independence, they attacked. Wtf is so hard to understand about this? Are you brain dead? You cannot re write history. I win. You lose. Again


First off, you had 10% of the population, declaring independence over 70% of the land. And second, Arabs attacked when the British left the area leaving no government authority to protect the indigenous, non-Jewish residents of that area, from being subject to violence and mass murder at the hands of Jewish terrorist groups and after 40 years of watching the hostility ramp up to the level it was,  just before the war.


----------



## montelatici (Oct 4, 2014)

toastman said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really,  _et al,_
> ...





RoccoR said:


> Billo_Really,  _et al,_
> 
> I don't read and interpret it the same.
> 
> ...



 "(Zionists) behave towards the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, infringe upon their boundaries, hit them shamefully without reason, and even brag about it".

Achad Ha'am
1891

David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian


----------



## toastman (Oct 4, 2014)

Billo and Monti:

Both of you have failed miserably. First off, Rocco proved to both you delusional morons that the Arabs instigated the violence. Add to what he posted the Safed Pogroms before 1900. You cannot refute these facts.
Billo claims that Israel started the 6 day war to capture the West Bank. First off, the West Bank was controlled by Jordan , and Jordan attacked Israel first even after Israel warned them not too.
JordN ATTACKS Israel first, the. You whine that Israel captures their territory? Pathetic. 
And the 1948 war was started by the surrounding Arab countries who attacked Israel first, NOT the ofher way around. 
I have alreadh proved this many times and no matter how many times you guys try and try to refute it, it won't work. You cannot re write history.


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 4, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Idiot, we're talking about the 5 Arab states surrounding Israel. They had nothing to do with the Israel-Palestinian hostilities. The day after Israel declared independence, they attacked. Wtf is so hard to understand about this? Are you brain dead? You cannot re write history. I win. You lose. Again
> ...


I don't believe it! Israel is ruling Jordan now! Why don't jordanians bitch about it?


----------



## montelatici (Oct 4, 2014)

toastman said:


> Billo and Monti:
> 
> Both of you have failed miserably. First off, Rocco proved to both you delusional morons that the Arabs instigated the violence. Add to what he posted the Safed Pogroms before 1900. You cannot refute these facts.
> Billo claims that Israel started the 6 day war to capture the West Bank. First off, the West Bank was controlled by Jordan , and Jordan attacked Israel first even after Israel warned them not too.
> ...



It is you and Rocco that are trying to rewrite history.  Europeans invaded Palestine not the other way around.  As Achad Ha'am confirmed, the Europeans (Jews) attacked the Christians and Muslims as soon as they arrived in Palestine, in the mid to late 1800s.


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> "(Zionists) behave towards the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, infringe upon their boundaries, hit them shamefully without reason, and even brag about it". Achad Ha'am 1891
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian


[yawn] What about our arab settler-squatter "sheiks" and their sheikanigans, bth?


----------



## montelatici (Oct 4, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > "(Zionists) behave towards the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, infringe upon their boundaries, hit them shamefully without reason, and even brag about it". Achad Ha'am 1891
> ...



The squatters are the Jews.


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> It is you and Rocco that are trying to rewrite history.  Europeans invaded Palestine not the other way around.  As Achad Ha'am confirmed, the Europeans (Jews) attacked the Christians and Muslims as soon as they arrived in Palestine, in the mid to late 1800s.


Funny drivel.


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > [yawn] What about our arab settler-squatter "sheiks" and their sheikanigans, bth?
> ...


Arab settlers-squatters, calling others settlers. Isn't that funny?


----------



## montelatici (Oct 4, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...



The Jews from Europe are the squatters, the Muslims and Christians were living in Palestine for generations by definition can't be squatters.  It's simple logic.


----------



## toastman (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Billo and Monti:
> ...



I already proved your 'invasion' allegation to be a lie. The British controlled the land, NOT the Palestinian Arabs. The British INVITED the European Jews and facilitted their immigration. That's not an invasion you moron. 
And you have yet to link me to any attacks, massacres of Arabs that preceded the attacks Rocco posted. Your quote is useless.
The problem with you is that you are incapable of admitting you're wrong. 
Either way, I have proved all your allegations to be wrong, and no matter how many times you repeat your lies, they will never become true...


----------



## toastman (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



They are called Israelis, not Europeans. They are living in their country. 

Are Chinese people living in America squatters?
Are Iranian people living in Canada squatters?
Are Burnese people living in Brazil squatters?

And more importantly, will there ever be a day where you don't spread lies??


----------



## aris2chat (Oct 4, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Excellent post Rocco. I have, on many occassions posted those attacks against Jews that you did to show the deluded pro Palestinians who really started the violence. Their excuse is always that those attacks were justified resistance because the Jews were trying to take over their 'country'. But when Jewish attacks against Arabs are brought up, they are made out to be initial agression .
> ...



It is called returning to the homeland, and they were invited by the ottoman and arab leaders.


----------



## montelatici (Oct 4, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



No, it's called an invasion from another continent.  People from Europe do not have a homeland in the Middle East.


----------



## aris2chat (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



It was a migration back to their historic lands.  In the beginning they were welcomed, till the mufti wanted them killed (a genocide)


----------



## toastman (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



Uhhhh, most Americans are of European heritage. 
Another fail by Monti


----------



## toastman (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



Uhhhh, most Americans are of European heritage.


----------



## toastman (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



Uhhhh, most Americans are of European heritage.


----------



## montelatici (Oct 4, 2014)

They were never welcomed by the common people.  I don't think that the English would appreciate the settlement and overrunning of England by Americans of English descent claiming that England was their historic land. 

As Ahad Ha'am understood back in the late 1800s.

"
"(Jews) behave towards the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, infringe upon their boundaries, hit them shamefully without reason, and even brag about it". The Arab did indeed respect strength, but only when the other side used it justly. When his opponent's actions were unjust and oppressive, then "he may keep his anger to himself for a time ... but in the long run he will prove to be vengeful and full of retribution". Prophetic words.

In 1913, after a correspondent had complained of the contemptuous attitude of settlers and the Zionist Organisation's Palestine Office, Ha'am wrote back, "When I realise that our brethren may be morally capable of treating another people in this fashion and of crudely abusing what is sacred to them, then I cannot but reflect: if such is the situation now, how shall we treat others if one day we actually become the rulers of Palestine?"


----------



## montelatici (Oct 4, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



Yes, how quickly you are catching on.


----------



## toastman (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



You said people of European heritage do not have a homeland in the Middle East. But you always pick on Israel because of your hate. 
BTW, 45%-50% of Israeli Jews are from the Middle East and north Africa.


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


"So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the 
country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population."
Winnie Churchill knew his settling-squatting arabs, of course.


----------



## montelatici (Oct 4, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



The Jews that invaded were from Europe.  North Africa is on another continent. The Europeans committed the same crimes in the Americas.  The invaded and expelled and/or put in camps (reservations) most of  he people that were living in the Americas.


----------



## montelatici (Oct 4, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...



Do you have a source document that confirms that Churchill actually said that.  Not a newspaper article and the like, but a source document as below.

In any case Churchill wanted to get the Jews out of Europe and did not want Labour to restrict immigration.  His statement did not reflect fact just a political ploy using a lie.

The fact is:


*AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE, during the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921. AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE.  *​"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*_See_ Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. *Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. *A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. *Some 77,000 of the population are Christians*, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. *Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews*. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921


----------



## montelatici (Oct 4, 2014)

Keep it up.  the more I get to post the fact and the source document the more thinking people will begin to realize that almost everything the believe is Israeli propaganda.


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...





Stop LYING, the rules prevent me from posting the evidence that shows you to be a muslim man posting on his convert wifes  account or I would belittle you so much you would not dare show your face here ever again.


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...





 why they would be muslims wouldn't they. The Jews were invited and only expelled those they were allowed to expel under International law. They could have executed them and then claimed the arab armies did it, and the world would be none the wiser. Isn't that what your fellow ISLAMONAZI TERRORIST SCUM did to the Christians of Palestine just recently ?


----------



## aris2chat (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



There was no invasion.  Jews from MENA and europe migrated.  They bought land, some of which was swampy and unwanted.  There was more than enough room as stated in many of the documented posts.  A fraction of population at the time of the romans.  Jews came as refugees from the WWII.  They came to develop the land and invest to create jobs, jobs for the arabs as well.
It was in the mosques the slander and hate from the mufti (even the british who appointed him threw him out.)

Jews built a nation.  Sadly the palestinians that left or moved have destroyed.  Arabs that stayed are Israelis with all the rights and freedoms.

Half the the arabs left at the urging of the arab states that were about to invade, others left after the fighting began.  Only a small number were "forced" out because of terrorism ties.  The rest stayed and became Israelis with all the rights and freedoms.  Most rights and freedoms that their arab neighbors.

Jews did not invade, but the arab states did capturing and occupying land that might have been part of palestinian state.  Arabs at the UN refused a palestinian state when it was proposed.


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 Will Hansard do then, the official publication of the house of commons.

Mr Winston Churchill speeches in 1939 Hansard


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Keep it up.  the more I get to post the fact and the source document the more thinking people will begin to realize that almost everything the believe is Israeli propaganda.





 And the more you show that you don't understand what "source documents" mean at the end of the day. You being a muslims that has to use another persons internet account because you cant get one yourself.


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> *AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE, during the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921. AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE.  *​"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*_See_ Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. *Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. *A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. *Some 77,000 of the population are Christians*, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.
> The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. *Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews*. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921


Hilarious! So, year 1921, and Transjordan is still part of the mandate palestine, 75% of it! Our honorable montelatici should excercise harder, harder!


----------



## toastman (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



You keep ignoring the fact that the British in ites the European Jews to immigrate. You know what that means Monti? It means that there was no invasion.
It's that simple.


----------



## toastman (Oct 4, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > *AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE, during the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921. AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE.  *​"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*_See_ Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. *Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. *A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. *Some 77,000 of the population are Christians*, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.
> ...



He's becoming worse than Tinmore when it comes to distorting history!


----------



## Grendelyn (Oct 4, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > How many times do you have to be shown this shit, before you have the balls to admit it?
> ...



*Is this why you keep giving it to others?*


----------



## Kondor3 (Oct 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Perhaps you would do better to gain an understanding of why IDF forces crossed over the line, before commencing your rock-throwing?


----------



## aris2chat (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



Jordan, Iraq, Egypt and Syria invaded, occupied and mistreated the palestinians o the land they they captured.


----------



## toastman (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Keep it up.  the more I get to post the fact and the source document the more thinking people will begin to realize that almost everything the believe is Israeli propaganda.



HAHAHAHA 
I have refuted all of your lies Monti.

You remind me of Palestinians; always claiming victory when you have clearly lost.
And again, you cannot accuse others of posting propaganda when you do it all day


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici,  _et al,_

Well, you make a stab at it --- but, unpersuasive and often misinterpreted in both fact and relevance. 



montelatici said:


> Keep it up.  the more I get to post the fact and the source document the more thinking people will begin to realize that almost everything the believe is Israeli propaganda.


*(COMMENT)*

Most of the time, you keep reaching back to an era of more than half a century ago; much like our friend P F Tinmore.  In your most recent posts, you've reached back even a century ago.  For whatever that is worth, you don't think like the key decision makers of that time period.  Yes! there are documents that present opposing views.  But in the end, the convening authority (the League of Nations and the successor United Nations) made a series of decisions that lead to the Partition of the the former Mandate [GA/RES/181(II)].  And, the convening authority understood the complaints and issues of both sides of the equation _(Israeli-Palestinian)_ of the day.  They were painfully clear.  All that is important from that decision is --- the Arab Palestinian did everything it could to undermine that decision.

All the subsequent conflicts were directly related to the absolute defiance to authority and pledge of conflict by the Arab Palestinians and the neighboring Arab States formed out of the various segments of Mandates.  And that defiance and pledge to conflict triggered a series of events that lead us to the successful Jewish State of Israel and the failed and unproductive Arab State of Palestine. 

Today, the "Question of Palestine" _(as it was labeled nearly a century ago)_ is how to establish regional peace between the Jewish State of Israel _(in favor of peace and tranquility)_ and the Arab Palestinian quasi-State _(in favor of Jihad and Conflict)_ which is still resisting the Partition Plan.  Since that time _[when the Jewish Agency completed the "Step Preparatory to Independence" and implemented GA/RES/181(II)]_ the Arab Palestinian has demonstrated a flagrant disregard and depraved indifference to peace, authority, and human life.  While it can be said that the Arab Palestinian had _(past tense)_ some legitimate grievances --- they have been over shadowed by events of their own making; having conducted the Olympic Massacre, numerous airline hijackings, piracy operations at sea, suicide bombings, kidnappings, various terrorist attacks, and tens of thousands - rocket and mortar attacks. _(The root of the word Islam is “peace!”)_

It becomes even more difficult to even consider the Arab Palestinian of today as a culture of values, both through positive moral education and encouragement; wherein the Arab Palestinian are NOT Muslims which treat people with kindness and mercy, and are tolerant and fair. They are not --- and have not been since before the 1929 Riots in Jerusalem --- Muslims that embrace diversity and strive to “walk upon the earth in humility” (Qur'an 25:63).



			
				HAMAS Objects to UN Human Rights Book in Schools said:
			
		

> GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — Gaza's Hamas authorities have blocked a U.N. refugee agency from introducing textbooks promoting human rights into local schools, saying it ignores Palestinian cultural mores and focuses too heavily on "peaceful" means of conflict resolution.
> ...   ...   ...
> The group also objected to the books' inclusion of the "Universal Declaration of Human Rights," a document approved by the U.N. General Assembly in 1948 that recognizes "the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family." Hamas believes that certain parts of the declaration violate Islamic law, including the right of people of different faiths to marry and the right to change one's religion.
> *SOURCE: *
> ...


No matter what you post today, about your interpretation of what happened 5, 8, or 10 Generations ago, what is important is what is happening today and the character of the Palestinian today.  And you must remember, just as HAMAS insists, that Arab Palestinian can not focus on accepted concepts of Universal Human Rights.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 4, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Perhaps you would do better to gain an understanding of why IDF forces crossed over the line, before commencing your rock-throwing?


Because they're pieces of shit whose word isn't worth crap!


----------



## Kondor3 (Oct 4, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps you would do better to gain an understanding of why IDF forces crossed over the line, before commencing your rock-throwing?
> ...


Yes, yes, yes... very nice, I"m sure... thank you for playing.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 4, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  _et al,_
> 
> Well, you make a stab at it --- but, unpersuasive and often misinterpreted in both fact and relevance.
> 
> ...


When did the Palestinian's inalienable rights expire?

Give me a date.


----------



## Kondor3 (Oct 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> When did the Palestinian's inalienable rights expire?
> 
> Give me a date.


May 15, 1948.

The day of the _Great Arab Skeddadle of 1948_.

The day they ran, rather than stand their ground and fight for themselves.

Use 'em or lose 'em.

For all intents and purposes, any snowball's chance-in-hell that they ever had, of actually becoming a country, evaporated on that very day.

Long ago, in a galaxy far, far away.

A cowardice that we still see today, as Palestinian fighters continue to hide behind the skirts of their women and children.

They got the destiny they chose for themselves, by running like rabbits.

Enjoy.

"_He who pisses his pants, then runs away, lives to regret it, for many a day._"


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 4, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > When did the Palestinian's inalienable rights expire?
> ...


*Wrong!*

Wars do not change rights.


----------



## Kondor3 (Oct 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


That's funny.

I don't see them exercising those rights.

There are Paper Rights, and there are Real World Rights.

The Palestinians have an over-abundance of Paper Rights.

None of which signify in the Real World - in practice.

If you can't hold your own as a country, then your country will never exist.

The Palestinians never could - and never will - be able to hold their own country.

Best to break up and scatter back into the surrounding regional countryside that spawned them.


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 4, 2014)

toastman said:


> I already proved your 'invasion' allegation to be a lie. The British controlled the land, NOT the Palestinian Arabs. The British INVITED the European Jews and facilitted their immigration. That's not an invasion you moron.


Much of that, was illegal immigration.



> _"All through those 30 years, Britain (admitted) into Palestine, year by year, a quota of Jewish immigrants that varied according to the strength of the respective pressures of the Arabs and Jews at the time. These immigrants could not have come in if they had not been shielded by a British chevaux-de-frise. If Palestine had remained under Ottoman Turkish rule, or if it had become an independent Arab state in 1918, Jewish immigrants would never have been admitted into Palestine in large enough numbers to enable them to overwhelm the Palestinian Arabs in this Arab people's own country. The reason why the State of Israel exists today and why today 1,500,000 Palestinian Arabs are refugees is that, for 30 years, Jewish immigration was imposed on the Palestinian Arabs by British military power until the immigrants were sufficiently numerous and sufficiently well-armed to be able to fend for themselves with tanks and planes of their own. The tragedy in Palestine is not just a local one; it is a tragedy for the world, because it is an injustice that is a menace to the world's peace."_
> _Arnold J. Toynbee -  eminent world historian_


BTW, all those examples *RoccoR* listed, were started by Zionists.



toastman said:


> And you have yet to link me to any attacks, massacres of Arabs that preceded the attacks Rocco posted.


That's because there were none, just like I told you.  The violence didn't start, until the Zionists showed up. 



> _*We wish to point out here that the Jewish population of Palestine who lived there before the War never had any trouble with their Arab neighbours.* They enjoyed the same rights and privileges as their fellow Ottoman citizens, and never agitated for the Declaration of November 1917. It is the Zionists outside Palestine who worked for the Balfour Declaration_ ...
> - Winston Churchill


Que pasa, mutha?



toastman said:


> Your quote is useless.
> The problem with you is that you are incapable of admitting you're wrong.


You need to look in the mirror on that woman.



toastman said:


> Either way, I have proved all your allegations to be wrong, and no matter how many times you repeat your lies, they will never become true...


And you're not proving anything, just pointing to someone else's "alleged" proof.


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  et al,

One of your amazing attributes, is in your ability to defensively ask the "wrong question;" or a question that seems to suggest some concept not in play.



P F Tinmore said:


> When did the Palestinian's inalienable rights expire?
> 
> Give me a date.


(COMMENT)

"Inalienable rights" --- something that HAMAS questions --- have no "expiration date."  But the rights themselves, in order to have meaning, must be made active _(put in use)_ by the holder _(in this case the Arab Palestinian)_.  An inalienable right" means nothing if it is not exercised.  It does not expire --- it is abandon.  The fruit from an "inalienable right" is "_condiciones sine quibus non_;" that is --- you must exercise it before you reap the benefits.

Examples:

Palestinian leaders argued that participation in the legislative council would be tantamount to acceptance of the British Mandate and Balfour policy, which they feared would lead to their subjugation under a Jewish majority in an eventual state. The poor election turnout in February 1923 caused the High Commissioner Sir Herbert Louis Samuel to shelve the Legislative Council proposal and revert to the idea of an advisory council (AC). But Samuel failed to convince Palestinian leaders to sit on a revised AC; nor was his subsequent proposal to establish an "Arab Agency" _(to be parallel to the "Jewish Agency" recognized under the mandate)_ any more successful at winning the cooperation of local politicians. Samuel thereupon abandoned the idea of encouraging popular participation in the governing of Palestine.

The 1947 UN Partition Plan for Palestine was accepted by the Jewish Agency leaders. However, the Arab Palestinians _(thru the Arab Higher Committee reconstituted by the Arab League in 1945)_ rejected this plan on the grounds that this decision violates the rights of Palestinian Arabs present in majority in the country; they were supported by the Arab League in their rejection.

Regional media _(Sunday, February 02, 2014) _reports over the weekend indicated that Israel is set to accept US Secretary of State John Kerry's framework proposal for reaching a final status peace agreement, while the Palestinians are looking to stall or outright reject the plan.

The Palestinian Authority on Tuesday rejected an Israeli offer to supply blood to Gaza, the Algemeiner reported (Jul. 15, 2014 ).​
Don't blame the outcomes on others when you had the opportunities to work from within the system to change things.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 4, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> One of your amazing attributes, is in your ability to defensively ask the "wrong question;" or a question that seems to suggest some concept not in play.
> 
> ...





RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> One of your amazing attributes, is in your ability to defensively ask the "wrong question;" or a question that seems to suggest some concept not in play.
> 
> ...


You are a piece of work, Rocco.

Did you ever consider that the Palestinians did not want to legitimize a basically unjust system.


----------



## montelatici (Oct 4, 2014)

There was no way to change things Rocco.  The gerrymandered Jewish area of the partition would have left Christians and Muslims representing 45% of the population under Jew rule.  I am a Christian, I would not want to be ruled by Jews.  The Palestinians felt the same way.  What did they, the Christians and Muslims, do to be required to be ruled by Jews?


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Thanks!



P F Tinmore said:


> You are a piece of work, Rocco.
> 
> Did you ever consider that the Palestinians did not want to legitimize a basically unjust system.


*(COMMENT)*

Did you ever consider that the Arab Palestinian did not want to participate in the process and make a better peace?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 4, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> ...


Sure, but that was not going to happen while Palestine was being colonized no matter what they did.


----------



## montelatici (Oct 4, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> ...



Why should a people invaded by people from another continent agree to be ruled by the invaders?


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici,  _et al,_

The people of Palestine have been ruled by external sovereign authority for a thousand years.  



montelatici said:


> Why should a people invaded by people from another continent agree to be ruled by the invaders?


*(COMMENT)*

The Jewish people didn't invade, they immigrated.
The Jewish immigrated to the Jewish National Home as established by the Allied Powers in 1920.
The Jewish did not seek agreement from the Arabs.
The Jewish People exercised their right of self-determination under the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" as established by the cognizant authority (the United Nations).
The Arab Palestinian declined to help in the rule of the Mandated Territory:
Declined to establish an Arab Agency.
Declined to participate in the Partition Planning.

The decisions made all those decades ago, were made by those that participated in process.  In the "Question of Palestine" --- the People do not have government by the majority; but rather --- have government by the majority who participate.  The Arab Palestinian was offered several opportunities over sever decades to participate and they declined to exercise their "inalienable rights."  However the Jewish People took advantage of those rights.

You have not legitimate grievance to the outcome of government if you don't participate.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 4, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


The Palestinians went to Europe and attacked the Jews?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 4, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  _et al,_
> 
> The people of Palestine have been ruled by external sovereign authority for a thousand years.
> 
> ...





> The Jewish people didn't invade, they immigrated.


No they didn't.


----------



## Hossfly (Oct 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


That's the 49th time you've asked that ridiculous question.


----------



## Andylusion (Oct 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



In other words, you have no idea what happened, or why, but you are passing judgement before knowing any of the facts at all.

OH!!!!.... I'm sorry... you are a Palestinian supporter.  For a moment that didn't make sense to me, but now it's all so clear.


----------



## toastman (Oct 4, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > I already proved your 'invasion' allegation to be a lie. The British controlled the land, NOT the Palestinian Arabs. The British INVITED the European Jews and facilitted their immigration. That's not an invasion you moron.
> ...



Again, you have failed miserably at refuting the fact that the Arabs started with the massacres and murders. You say they started it, but wheres your links? 
Nothing but bullshit lies from you, Tinmore and Monti
THE ARABS STARTED WITH THE VIOLENCE! BIGTIME.


----------



## toastman (Oct 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici,  _et al,_
> ...



Yes they did. You have no idea what an invasion is.
You simply cannot admit this because it destroys your agenda.
I recommend you go debate another issue, because your grasp on this conflict is terrible.


----------



## toastman (Oct 4, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


He believes that because the Jews immigrated to Mandatory Palestine, all attacks against them were legit.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 4, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


The Zionist went to Palestine so they could defend themselves?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 4, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


You have no idea what immigration is.


----------



## Andylusion (Oct 4, 2014)

Penelope said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...



Why should they go into Syria?   If they did, you'd take the side of ISIS, and you know it.

If the kids are attack soldiers, then they need shot.

How about you stop your kids from attacking soldiers?


----------



## toastman (Oct 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Then tell me what it is.


----------



## theliq (Oct 4, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > When did the Palestinian's inalienable rights expire?
> ...


You total Moron........at the time you mention the Jewish Terrorist Organizations were murdering Palestinians wholesale...and driving them deliberately out of their homes and towns.........Slaughtering innocent women,children and babies maybe your idea of strength but not to more educated people,but as you are a Dumb Bastard it merely shows you ignorance Big Time


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 4, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


This is the US version but it could be universally applied.
----------------------
*IMMIGRANT:*  In popular usage, an "immigrant" is generally understood to be a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence.  Under this definition, therefore, an "immigrant" is an alien admitted to the U.S. as a lawful permanent resident.   The emphasis in this definition is upon the presumptions that (1) the immigrant followed U.S. laws and procedures in establishing residence in our country; (2) he or she wishes to reside here permanently; and (3) he or she swears allegiance to our country or at least solemnly affirms that he/she will observe and respect our laws and our Constitution.

*ALIEN:*  By contrast, an "alien" is generally understood to be a foreigner -- a person who comes from a foreign country -- who does not owe allegiance to our country.

Definitions Alien Immigrant Illegal Alien Undocumented Immigrant
-------------------------
The Zionist imports fit which one of these definitions?


----------



## Hossfly (Oct 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


What is your point, Tinmope?


----------



## toastman (Oct 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Everything you posted talks about moving to another country. 
Also, I don't see how you refuted anything I said. 
When a bunch of people move to another country, territory, region, it's called immigration.
You use the word invasion to fit your agenda


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

The common theme that the Jewish People were invaders is nothing more than an inventive rationalization, by the Arab Palestinian, to suggest aggression by invasion.  The propaganda does not stipulate that:

There was a effort in progress to establish a Jewish National Home.
There was a process by which Jewish People, willing to assist in the establish, might immigrate. 



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > The Jewish people didn't invade, they immigrated.
> ...


*(OBSERVATION)
*


			
				Mandate of Palestine said:
			
		

> *Article 4*
> An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration, to assist and take part in the development of the country.
> 
> The Zionist Organisation, so long as its organisation and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.​
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

The allegation of "invasion" is merely an emotional bid for sympathy, on the part of the Arab Palestinian, to justify otherwise unprovoked violence _(plain and simple)_; pretending to be a victim of colonization and foreign subjugation.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 4, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


The Zionist imports fit which one of these definitions?


----------



## aris2chat (Oct 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Jews came, bought land and developed it.  They created jobs and raised the average income of the people.
They did not come to conquer but to build.  They were not invaders, they were migrants, refugee returning to their ancient homeland.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 4, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> The common theme that the Jewish People were invaders is nothing more than an inventive rationalization, by the Arab Palestinian, to suggest aggression by invasion.  The propaganda does not stipulate that:
> 
> ...


The Zionists were in cahoots with the British colonial power to take over Palestine and create a Jewish state.

This was a violation of the Palestinian's right to self determination without external interference.


----------



## toastman (Oct 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration

I can't copy paste on my phone today for some reason, so read the first paragraph​


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 4, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


Indeed, that is Israel's propaganda version.


----------



## Hossfly (Oct 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...


Gott in Himmel!


----------



## toastman (Oct 4, 2014)

Read the beginning of this articke as well:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion

Like I have always said, an invasion is a MILITARY offensive.
In other words, what the 5 Arab armies did in 1948.
You lose. Again.


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

As previously stated:  The immigration was in accordance with the authority of the Mandatory.



P F Tinmore said:


> The Zionist imports fit which one of these definitions?


*(COMMENT)*

This is merely a choice between two equally erroneous options; a false dilemma.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman (Oct 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Nope, what he said in 100% factual.
Your invasion story is the Palestinian propaganda version.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 4, 2014)

toastman said:


> Read the beginning of this articke as well:
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion
> 
> ...


That is why the Zionists recruited Britain. To use their military for the invasion.


----------



## toastman (Oct 4, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Read the beginning of this articke as well:
> ...



LOL Your making crap up again Tinmore. An invasion is a military offensive. That was not the case with European Jewish immigration.


----------



## theliq (Oct 4, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> As previously stated:  The immigration was in accordance with the authority of the Mandatory.
> 
> ...


Sorry but the Illegal Jews,started a Terrorist War against the Palestinians and the British circa 1937 in response to the hordes of Illegals trying to invade Palestine...which the British had banned by this time...so much for your erroneous comment.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 4, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> As previously stated:  *The immigration was in accordance with the authority of the Mandatory.*
> 
> ...


*ARTICLE 22.*
To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied *the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilisation* and that securities for the performance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.

Avalon Project - The Covenant of the League of Nations
----------------------
The LoN Covenant disagrees.


----------



## theliq (Oct 5, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



FCUK THEY DID...what? planet do you live on


----------



## toastman (Oct 5, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...



Again you post a link to try and refute a fact, and the link has nothing to do with the original statement by Rocco. 
Rocco said that the immigration was in accordance with the authority . What does the bolded part in your link have to do with that?


----------



## Kondor3 (Oct 5, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> ...The Zionists were in cahoots with the British colonial power to take over Palestine and create a Jewish state.
> 
> This was a violation of the Palestinian's right to self determination without external interference.


Screw the Palestinians and screw their right to self-determination - they are faux identity manufactured within living memory to describe a polyglut of old and new residents-of and migrants-to the area, few in number, ubiquitous in their crybaby propagandizing, intransigent and foolish in their dealings with adversaries and allies alike, and a lost cause.

Cowards who run away, who will not stand their ground, who are stupid enough to believe that their largely disinterested and lying and land-coveting neighbors will do all their fighting for them and hand them a manufactured state on a silver platter, who are such under-performers that they're willing to rot in refugee camps and refugee towns for sixty-six years rather than relocate and start new lives for their familes elsewhere, and who - when they do fight - embed war-assets amongst their civilians and who hide behind the skirts of their women and children like pussies - and then stupidly expect the world to believe their claims to the contrary - such fools, low-lifes and cowards get short shrift from both Reality and History.

The Palestinians had several decades and several key-point chances in which to reach a deal, before the Israelis reached the overdue conclusion that there was no point in negotiating with this primitive, savage, juvenile, petulant, insane collective. _The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity._ Create and run a country? Hell, they can't even keep their own socks pulled up and administer what they have - degenerating into civil war amongst themselves and splitting-in-two, what little is left to them.

The world is sick of the Palestinians and their shit. Hell, even the Egyptians and Jordanians collaborate with Israel nowadays to blockade and monitor the Palestinian crazies; to keep those mad dogs on a short leash, in their kennel, where they can't substantively bite their far more politically mature and sane neighbors. There is no longer any Arab cavalry coming over the hill to the rescue, as the 2014 Gaza campaign has proven beyond any shadow of a doubt. The Israelis have cut the balls off Hamas for very little cost except in money and munitions burned-off during the campaign, and bombed Hamas back to the table, hat-in-hand, to play nice again with Fatah and the Palestinian Authority.

A brand new Unity Government will now save the day - right? Yeah. Sure. Pull the other one.

There is now insufficient contiguous land-mass still remaining to these losers, to create and sustain a nation-state; hell, even in 1949-1950, they didn't have enough land for that, and now that they've been reduced to a few flea-sized morsels scattered here-and-there in the region, owing largely to their own (and their Arab neighbors former) foolishness in attacking or provoking the Jews, only to lose both the wars and the land, and with next to zero chance of recovering those lands, ever, it's time for the outside world to bitch-slap these tunnel-visioned idiots upside the head, and to force them to face Reality - namely, it's over - it's been over for years - and its time to move away, and to move on with life.

Far better for them to break up and scatter to the four winds, rather than continue to play-out a losing hand for another sixty-six years, or longer, only to lose in the end anyway, with nothing more to show for it than more stupidly spilled blood, misspent treasure, misplaced energy, wasted time, and heart-wrenching grief.

===================================================

"_He who pisses his pants, then runs away, lives to regret it, for many a day._"

The Palestinians had a decade to recover from the lost Palestinian Revolt of the 1930s and failed to do so, to anywhere near the extent that the Jewish militias organized themselves in anticipation of the end of the Mandate. The day went to the better prepared and motivated and clever and courageous, as it should, and as it always does.

The Palestinians also had the backing of their Arab neighbors, to varying extents, both financially and militarily, and still they allowed themselves to degenerate into and remain in a weakened condition prior to 1948, and they ran like rabbits when the Jews staked their claim rather than standing their ground alongside their invading Arab neighbors.

In alternate-universe dictionary speak.... "Losers: see 'Palestinians'.

Time for the so-called 'Palestinians' to recognize reality, throw in the towel, pack up, and leave.

It's over.


----------



## Kondor3 (Oct 5, 2014)

theliq said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Awwwwww... I don't think you liked my interpretation of the events of 1948, nor my (mostly implicit or historical) take on either the historical context nor subsequent developments.

My, my, my... oh dearie-me... as bad as all that? Glorioski, golly-gosh gee-whiz, and gee-willickers, Emmy Lou... whatever shall we do?


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 5, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > *AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE, during the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921. AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE.  *​"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*_See_ Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. *Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. *A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. *Some 77,000 of the population are Christians*, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.
> ...






It still was part of Palestine right up until the UN granted Israel full recognition and handed over the keys to the land. At the same time the UN said to Jordan and Syria you may as well be set free of our apron strings as well, now get out of the kitchen.


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 5, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...






 Not just the BRitish but the League of Nations and the Turkish/Persian ottomans


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 5, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...






 When Israel gained control of gaza and the west bank they found the Palestinians caged like wild animals without even the basic humanitarian conditions on hand. Many unburied dead were found dumped in dishonour to their religion. It was Israel that gave them sanitation, running water, power and basic health care.


----------



## theliq (Oct 5, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...


Why would I because all your spewings like you, are FULL OF SHIT


----------



## theliq (Oct 5, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


Only Israelis have CAGED Palestinians..children at that......it was Australia that brought this to the worlds attention some months ago.....a practice that I believe has now stopped..........so much for your Bullshit Insight to the Plight of the Palestinians........You American Weido Wannabee Jews are nothing like the Israeli Jews who want a fair solution to these problems for both peoples......You MAY NOW Leave this thread as your comments like the Moron named Condor,because you have NO real contribution to this discussion................Wank On


----------



## theliq (Oct 5, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...


Your weird attempt at Poetry was just that......Golly Gosh,VERY WEIRD INDEED...........


----------



## theliq (Oct 5, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > ...The Zionists were in cahoots with the British colonial power to take over Palestine and create a Jewish state.
> ...



There is a name for Guys like YOU......Wanker....you got it in one......................Golly Gosh


----------



## Kondor3 (Oct 5, 2014)

theliq said:


> ...There is a name for Guys like YOU......Wanker....you got it in one......................Golly Gosh


Uhhhhhhh, yeah, Arab butt liq-ker, you tell 'em... next slide, please.


----------



## Rehmani (Oct 5, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Earlier there was a report of Israel shooting at Palestinian fisherman. Now there is another Israeli attack in spite of a cease fire.
> ---------------------------
> Gaza City, October 2 (RHC)-- Israeli army vehicles have entered the southern Gaza Strip and soldiers opened fire on Palestinian agricultural areas in a flagrant violation of a recent ceasefire agreement.
> 
> ...


I really don't know why Jews are making this mess, when they scare from every thing, I don't how they survive with this paranoid ism or like psychopath. How stupid psychopath they are they injured one Palestinian because that Palestinian come to very close to fence.
I will advise to jews that please give up your Idea that you superior or masaya is coming, be normal human being.


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 5, 2014)

toastman said:


> Again, you have failed miserably at refuting the fact that the Arabs started with the massacres and murders. You say they started it, but wheres your links?
> Nothing but bullshit lies from you, Tinmore and Monti
> THE ARABS STARTED WITH THE VIOLENCE! BIGTIME.


I provided the link.  It's not my fault if you refuse to go read it.


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 5, 2014)

*Just how fucked does a person have to be, to shoot at people fishing and farming?*


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 5, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> Jews came, bought land and developed it.  They created jobs and raised the average income of the people.


Jewish people.  Not the indigenous arabs who were living in that area for generations.  They were denied employment.  There were _no jobs created for them_.



> _Two of the principal means advocated by the Zionist Organization for achieving the national home were large-scale immigration and land purchase.* A third was the denial of employment to Palestinian labour*_.


I've pointed this out to you before, yet you keep insisting on re-telling the same lie over and over. 



aris2chat said:


> They did not come to conquer but to build.  They were not invaders, they were migrants, refugee returning to their ancient homeland.


Bringing their racist and apartheid land policies with them.



> _A strict policy of what in today's terms would be described as *racial discrimination was maintained by the Zionist Organization* in this rapid advance towards the "national home". *Only Jewish labour could service Jewish farms and settlements*. The* eventual outcome of this trend was a major outbreak of violence* with unprecedented loss of life in 1929, which was investigated by the Shaw Commission_.


  Hey *Toasty*, you snowback coward, do you see that last part?  Jewish racism started all the violence.


----------



## toastman (Oct 5, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Again, you have failed miserably at refuting the fact that the Arabs started with the massacres and murders. You say they started it, but wheres your links?
> ...



Your link does not show any Jewish attacks against Arabs that preceded the ones Rocco posted.

Your argument


Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Again, you have failed miserably at refuting the fact that the Arabs started with the massacres and murders. You say they started it, but wheres your links?
> ...



Your link did not provide any attacks by Jews against Arabs that precedes the ones Rocco posted.
Your argument that 'there was no violence before Zionists showed up, therefore they are responsible for it' is a strawman argument.


----------



## toastman (Oct 5, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Jews came, bought land and developed it.  They created jobs and raised the average income of the people.
> ...



Any attack/massacre/killing has a reason behind it. That doesn't justify it. 
Either way, Arabs started killing/massacring Jews way before Jews killed any Arabs. You have still failed to prove otherwise. 
You have failed again you sad piece of shit.


----------



## toastman (Oct 5, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Jews came, bought land and developed it.  They created jobs and raised the average income of the people.
> ...



As for there being no jobs for Arabs, your link doesn't say that. It says that the Zionist Organization ADVOCATED denial or work for Arabs. Go learn what the word ADVOCATED means you uneducated retard.
Oh, and not all Jews followed what the ZO advocated.


----------



## Andylusion (Oct 5, 2014)

theliq said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Accept it didn't happen.

Terrorist attack people who are not fighting them.  You fly a plane into a building full of people who were not armed, not attacking, not even throwing rocks.

When Israel shoots people attacking them, it's not longer terrorism.   Terrorism is strapping a bomb to your own kid, and sending him to blow up a dance club, full of unarmed, non-combatant kids..... dancing.


These are animals.  Selling their own children for a suicide attack.  More like rodents than dogs even... dogs will fight viciously to protect their babies.  These people profit from the death of their children.


A 21-year-old suffering from burns.  Goes to Israel to get treatment, and is treated and helped.... yet convinced by her sub-human Palestinians to strap bombs to herself, to attack the very people who saved her life.

And you want us to feel sympathy for you when Israelis kill your kids?

When you people move up to the level of a dog... and care for your own kids half as much as the Israelis do....  we'll talk.  Until then, you are a rodent, and I don't care what happens to you.


----------



## Andylusion (Oct 5, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> *Just how fucked does a person have to be, to shoot at people fishing and farming?*



Again, do you know what happened, or why they responded?

You are talking about soldiers who are used to these rodents hiding behind women and children to shoot at Israelis.

You think that doesn't mess with the minds of soldiers?

Maybe if the rodents stopped biting the hand the feeds them so much, they wouldn't get stepped on as much.


----------



## Andylusion (Oct 5, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Jews came, bought land and developed it.  They created jobs and raised the average income of the people.
> ...



Jews have been living there since Ancient Israel existed.  There has never, at any point, been a time in which Jews did not live in the land of Israel, since the Babylon Empire.

Jews have been there, long than any Arab, sent there by the Ottoman Empire, or transplanted peoples of Samaria.

The *ONLY* people group to have been in the land of Israel consistently for over 2000 years, is the Jews.

Further, Arabs have been slaughtered and murdering Jews in the land of Israel that entire time.    Seems divine justice what is happening now.


----------



## aris2chat (Oct 5, 2014)

theliq said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Arab started the conflict 1920 on the mufti's orders.


----------



## aris2chat (Oct 5, 2014)

toastman said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Palestine Arab Riots 1920-21


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 5, 2014)

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...





Here is photographic evidence you foul mouthed moron






Arab 'refugees' in camp in Gaza. The control in the Gaza Strip was until 1967 in the hands of Egypt.

By the way I am not Jewish or American, I come from a country that will very soon be ridding itself of islam and the filth it peddles


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 5, 2014)

theliq,  _et al,_

This is so much nonsense.



theliq said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...


*(OBSERVATION)*

Not that it makes much difference today, but the Palestinian Terrorism was well organized and function seven years before this.  One such organization was know as the "Palestinian Black Hand" (PBH)(al-Kaff al-Aswad‎) --- an armed terrorist group founded in 1930 and led by Syrian-born Sheik Izz ad-Din al-Qassam _(HAMAS martyr and name sake of the Brigade)_.  By 1935 the PBH had between 500 to 800 men, operating in small cells and targeting Jewish settlers in northern Palestine.  The PBH and Sheik al-Qassam were the first to openly use the "call to Jihad" in their recruitment for members.

*(COMMENT)*

The evolutionary sequences was:

1907 Bar-Giora Jewish commercial self-defense entity for hire _(Business Motto:  Habiryonim: "In fire and blood")_  --- operating during the period when approximately 20,000 Jews immigrated the Mandate Territory. This commercial entity was not employed by all immigrant settlements.  It was the first competitor to Arab guards had been hired for protection.
1909 Hashomer _("The Watchman")_  The goal of _The Watchmen_ were an expanded version of the Bar Giora.  It's mission was to settling the land and guarding it from Arab attackers.  The purpose of Hashomer was to provide guard services for Jewish settlements in the re-organization of defense needs for all the Jewish communities in Palestine.  Many of _The Watchmen_ were to become members of the Jewish Legion _(Battalions of the Royal Fusiliers, British Army)_ or members of the Mounted Constabulary Units _(British Colonial Police Service)_ established in the Mandatory of Palestine.
1920 Haganah _("The Defence"_)  The mission of the Haganah was strictly defensive in nature and did not engage in counterattacks against Arab gangs.  This was a point of contention as the threat from organized Arab Gangs grew more intense.  With the rise of the PBH, the first of the splinter groups broke-off from the Haganah in 1931.
1931 Irgun _[Haganah Bet ("Defense B" or "Second Defense")]_  To meet the growing threat from Arab Terrorists and first generation Jihadists, like the PBH, the Irgun formed out of resources of the Haganah.  This was the first of the Jewish Offensive force structures.  It was an independent group outside the control and leadership of the Haganah.
1940 Lehi _(AKA: Stern Gang --- thought of as the "The National Military Organization in the Land of Israel") _Was a radical element, and the most dangerous from a political and paramilitary perspective.  Much like the Arab counterparts, The Lehi operated against British authority, with the objective of open immigration _(no quota or limitation)_ and the formation of a Jewish state _(Totalitarian Hebrew Republic)_.  It also openly rejected the authority of the Jewish Agency.  The Lehi, not unlike HAMAS of today, financed their operations from private donations, extortion, bank robbery and other criminal enterprizes.  The Lehi had generally been opposed and even condemned by the more moderate Jewish Leadership who considered it somewhat of a political embarrassment and an albatross to international diplomatic efforts.  After 1948, and the creation of the Jewish State of Israel --- the leadership could no longer afford the unrestrained Lehi to run free.  It was essentially disbanded and/or absorbed.  
In unconventional and fourth generation warfare, where asymmetric forces are dominant and develop over time, there are strains that evolve to be uncontrolled and therefore a serious and unpredictable dangers.    

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Andylusion (Oct 5, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> theliq,  _et al,_
> 
> This is so much nonsense.
> 
> ...



So nice to see an actually informed post, with information that even I didn't know about.   I didn't know about Haganah, or Bar-Giora, or Hashnomer.

It's posts like this, with that make reading this forum worthwhile.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 5, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> theliq,  _et al,_
> 
> This is so much nonsense.
> 
> ...


The Jews started terrorist organizations to protect their colonial project.

What is your point?


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 5, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

The Jewish People needed protection from Hostile Arab Palestinians even before the outbreak of WWI, before the Balfour Declaration, before the Faisal-Weissman Agreement, and well before the Mandate of Palestine.



P F Tinmore said:


> The Jews started terrorist organizations to protect their colonial project.
> 
> What is your point?


*(COMMENT)*

They were not "terrorist organizations," but security protection in the absences of effective police. 

There was no such thing as a Jewish Colonial Project.  The Jewish immigrants to Palestine were not colonial settlers of a foreign power.

This is just an image the Hostile Arab Palestinians use to justify their violent and aggressive Xenophobic behavior.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 5, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> The Jews started terrorist organizations to protect their colonial project.


No wonder arab settlers and colonizers would call others terrorists, of course.


----------



## montelatici (Oct 5, 2014)

Androw said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



Bullshit.  Ancestors of the Palestinians, Christians and Muslims today, have lived in Palestine since before there were Jews.  Their religion at the time and what they converted to has nothing to do with it.  The fact is:
*
AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE, during the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.  *​
"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*_See_ Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages.* Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems.* A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. *Some 77,000 of the population are Christians*, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. *Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews*. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921


----------



## toastman (Oct 5, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Androw said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...


Their religion doesn't matter? Hahaha!

Jews were there before the cult of Islam came into existence


----------



## montelatici (Oct 5, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> The Jewish People needed protection from Hostile Arab Palestinians even before the outbreak of WWI, before the Balfour Declaration, before the Faisal-Weissman Agreement, and well before the Mandate of Palestine.
> 
> ...



Was bombing the King David hotel or assassinating Count Bernadotte your definition of "security protection" you nitwit?,


----------



## toastman (Oct 5, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > theliq,  _et al,_
> ...



Are you not capable of understanding the simple fact that the first attacks/massacres were started by the Arabs? No matter how much you desperately attempt to ignore this fact, it won't change.
What I find funny is that you call the Jewish irganizations terrorists but when someone calls Hamas a terrorist organization, you call it third grade name calling, and try to convince is that Hamas is not one. 
Also, as Rocco said, the Colonial project is a made up propaganda myth that you foolishly believe. 
After losing the 1948 war, the Palestinian Arabs started to act like the victims and started portraying the Jews as the agressors, when it was coear that the Arabs commenced all the hostilities.


----------



## toastman (Oct 5, 2014)

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...



What an immature piece of shit you are. Rocco posts respectfully to everyone yet you resort to name calling even though he never said anything bad about you.

en.m.wikipedia.org/Wiki/Haganah

"Believing that they could not rely on the British administration for protection from the Arab gangs, the Jewish leadership created the Haganah to protect Jewish farms and Kibbutzim"

Monti, you are so brainwashed that there is no hope for you.


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 5, 2014)

Androw, _et al,_

Thanks for the kind words.



Androw said:


> I didn't know about Haganah, or Bar-Giora, or Hashnomer.


*(SIDEBAR)*

In contemporary terms, you actually do have some knowledge of the Haganah _(and its sidekick called The Palmach created in 1941)_.  Yitzhak Rabin _[Prime Minister of Israel (1992 - 1995) · Prime Minister of Israel (1974 - 1977)]_, Ariel Sharon _[Prime Minister of Israel (2001 - 2006) · Defense Minister of Israel (1981 - 1983)]_, Rehavam Ze'evi _( In 1964–1968, he served as Chief of the Department of Staff in the Israeli General Staff)_, Dov Hoz _(From 1931–1940, he was a member of the National Haganah Command Center)_, Moshe Dayan _(served as Minister of Defense and was a chief architect of the Camp David Accords)_, Yigal Allon _(Commander of the Palmach, and General in the IDF)_ and many more were members of one or the other.  Much of what was the best in the Haganah and Palmach, was folded over into the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) after armed bands, militia groups and paramilitary forces were ordered to disband by David Ben-Gurion and replaced by the IDF; Israel's first Prime Minister.  Ben-Gurion was instrumental in the imprinting a policy of restraint on Haganah operations --- a policy of NO RETALIATION for Arab attacks against Jewish communities and settlements, focusing exclusively on the roll of self-defense.

As a little know piece of trivia, in 1944, the Haganah assisted the British Security Forces and Police arresting members of the Irgun and Lehi groups; largely a decision influenced by David Ben-Gurion.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 5, 2014)

montelatici,  _et al,_

Good Question.



montelatici said:


> Was bombing the King David hotel or assassinating Count Bernadotte your definition of "security protection" you nitwit?,



*(COMMENT)*

Both events are considered _(historically)_ as terrorist acts. 

There is no question that David Ben-Gurion agreed in principle to Menachem Begin's 1946 plan to place a bomb in the King David Hotel _(British administrative headquarters for Palestine__).  _ David Ben-Gurion wanted minimal casualties with the intention of embarrassing the British Military and Diplomatic Corps in-house.   When it became known that Menachem Begin's (a LEHI) Plan was to inflict a high number of casualties, David Ben-Gurion told Menachem Begin to abort the operation.  Menachem Begin would not comply.  One of the reasons that the LEHI organization was disbanded.

Similarly, in 1948 members of LEHI killed  Count Folke Bernadotte, UN Peace Mediator, in protect of his attempt to modify the Palestine Partition Plan.
As I said in Posting #207, supra, "in unconventional and fourth generation warfare, where asymmetric forces are dominant and develop over time, there are strains that evolve to be uncontrolled and therefore a serious and unpredictable dangers."   

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici (Oct 5, 2014)

Oh dear Rocco.  You have been found out and are responding as a child would.  Grow up.  The Jews were the terrorists in Palestine, the local people just wanted to be left alone and did not want t be invaded by Europeans.


----------



## Hossfly (Oct 5, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Oh dear Rocco.  You have been found out and are responding as a child would.  Grow up.  The Jews were the terrorists in Palestine, the local people just wanted to be left alone and did not want t be invaded by Europeans.


Why are you employing Turnspeak, Luigi?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 5, 2014)

RoccoR said:
			
		

> The Jewish People needed protection from Hostile Arab Palestinians



Then Palestine was a really stupid place to invade to be "safe."


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 5, 2014)

Androw said:


> Again, do you know what happened,


Do you?  Then shut your fuckin' mouth, asshole!



Androw said:


> or why they responded?


What makes you think it was a "response"?



Androw said:


> You are talking about soldiers who are used to these rodents hiding behind women and children to shoot at Israelis.


They're not rodents and they weren't hiding, they were farming and got shot at by some fucked up individuals in serious need of a beat down.



Androw said:


> You think that doesn't mess with the minds of soldiers?


I could care less about the mind of an Israeli soldier, although I would love to run into one in a bar.



Androw said:


> Maybe if the rodents stopped biting the hand the feeds them so much, they wouldn't get stepped on as much.


Hey fuckhead, they were_* farming!
*_
If you don't see anything wrong with shooting people who are farming, then you're pretty fucked in the head too.


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 5, 2014)

Androw said:


> Jews have been living there since Ancient Israel existed.  There has never, at any point, been a time in which Jews did not live in the land of Israel, since the Babylon Empire.
> 
> Jews have been there, long than any Arab, sent there by the Ottoman Empire, or transplanted peoples of Samaria.
> 
> ...


You are so full of shit!

Palestinian-Jews and Palestinian-Arabs had been living in that area for over 2000 years without any major incidents of violence.  That all changed when Zionists showed up.


----------



## Hossfly (Oct 5, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Androw said:
> 
> 
> > Jews have been living there since Ancient Israel existed.  There has never, at any point, been a time in which Jews did not live in the land of Israel, since the Babylon Empire.
> ...


Just to get the timeline straight, when did the first Arabs invade Israel?


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 5, 2014)

toastman said:


> As for there being no jobs for Arabs, your link doesn't say that.


Yes it does.



toastman said:


> It says that the Zionist Organization ADVOCATED denial or work for Arabs.


It also said they continued a policy of racial discrimination where only Jewish labor could be used on farms and settlements, which eventually lead to a major outbreak in violence.



toastman said:


> Go learn what the word ADVOCATED means you uneducated retard.


Why don't you go read the rest of the post, you fucking moron?



toastman said:


> Oh, and not all Jews followed what the ZO advocated.


And the ones who didn't, were penalized for it.


> _Keren Kayemet draft lease: Employment of Jewish labour only
> 
> "... The lessee undertakes to execute all works connected with the cultivation of the holding only with Jewish labour. *Failure to comply with this duty by the employment of non-Jewish labour shall render the lessee liable to the payment of compensation* ..."_


Class dismissed!


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 5, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Just to get the timeline straight, when did the first Arabs invade Israel?


Approximately 50 years after the Zionist invasion.


----------



## Hossfly (Oct 5, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Just to get the timeline straight, when did the first Arabs invade Israel?
> ...


Around 600 A.D. or thereabout you say?


----------



## toastman (Oct 5, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > As for there being no jobs for Arabs, your link doesn't say that.
> ...



You have serious reading comprehension issues. Your link does NOT prove your lie that there were no jobs Arabs.
And the major outbreak of violence was started by the Arabs, as Rocco has pointed out by giving specific incidents. You always find some way to justify these attacks against Jews, but you are only making a fool of yourself. ARABS STARTED WITH THE KILLINGS AND MASSACRES. EVEN BEFORE 1900.
You fail...again...
Stick to watching sports you deluded leftist


----------



## toastman (Oct 5, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Just to get the timeline straight, when did the first Arabs invade Israel?
> ...



en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion

An invasion is a military offensive idiot. There was no such thing as a Zionist invasion. That's just you parotting Palestinian propaganda. 
What the 5 Arab states did in 1948 was an invasion. 
I win. You lose. Again.


----------



## toastman (Oct 5, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Still peddling that invasion lie even after it's been proved to be wrong....
What's it like to be wrong about everything you say?


----------



## toastman (Oct 5, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Androw said:
> 
> 
> > Jews have been living there since Ancient Israel existed.  There has never, at any point, been a time in which Jews did not live in the land of Israel, since the Babylon Empire.
> ...



Your strawman argument is pathetic:

"There was no violence before the Zionists showed up, therefore they are automatically responsible for the violence"
That's not how it works. Oh, and again. Arabs are the ones who started the  violence. No matter how much you deny this fact, it still doesn't change.

So when you gonna thank me for teaching you about the I/P conflict?


----------



## theliq (Oct 5, 2014)

Androw said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...


Your KNOWLEDGE of Israelite history is poor indeed.......The Canaanites and Moabites lived and settled this area long before the Jews arrived,what the Jews did do was eliminate these two peoples......and eventually made the Canaanite capital of Salem,into Jewrsalem.......when making comment here ensure you get your facts right,anyway the original Jews out of Babylon were in fact made up of what today are known as Arabs and Jews.....the "Jews" of Babylon were infact thrown out of Babylon when the Assyrians conquered Nebuccednezzer......sic.....not to be confused with todays Syrians..steve


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## theliq (Oct 5, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > The Jews started terrorist organizations to protect their colonial project.
> ...


Well Doc Tinnie is right,and there is full Documentation regarding this matter....They were a very nasty form of Terrorists,much like ISIS today..steve


----------



## theliq (Oct 5, 2014)

toastman said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Androw said:
> ...


The only Strawman as far as I can see on here is you Toastie.....and that thing Condor but he is far worse.steve


----------



## theliq (Oct 5, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> The Jewish People needed protection from Hostile Arab Palestinians even before the outbreak of WWI, before the Balfour Declaration, before the Faisal-Weissman Agreement, and well before the Mandate of Palestine.
> 
> ...


Rocco this is just not true,I personally spoken to Jewish folk and They Said that prior to 1948 they got on very well with Palestinians(as still do),yes they admit there were atrosities sic on both sides prior to 48 but the thought much more of Palestinians than the influx of non European Jews after 1948 and beyond......I have lived in Israel and the tales of Jews hating Palestinians and visa-versa is just Bullshit......Palestinians and Jews got on well at many Jewish and Palestinian events.........all this Hatred is propagated by Zionists,Ultras and other devisive sic Jews.steve Rocco some of your posts are fairly balanced and some not but your contribution is always welcome like Tinnies and others.I will add here that within Israel today there is a Schism between the Secular and Other Jewish Organizations.....of whom you would well know


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 5, 2014)

toastman said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


Indeed, and the Zionist invasion was under the cover of the British military.


----------



## toastman (Oct 5, 2014)

theliq said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Ya, just like ISIS 

Is it possible that your posts are getting stupider every time you curse us with your presence?


----------



## toastman (Oct 5, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



You have reading comprehension issues. 
So first I dismantle your original 'invasion' lie, and now you change your story by adding the British Military.
Lets try this again. An invasion is a MILITARY OFFENSIVE. In other words, an army going to another entity with a certain hostile goal.
The European Jews were not a military and there immigration was just that, not a military offensive.
Any military offensive began after Arab terrorists started killing and massacring Jews, as has been documented several times.

In conclusion, your invasion lie has been refuted. Of course your agenda is full of distortion and lies so you will still continue repeating it.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 5, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


Britain maintained a large military presence during the mandate period. Britain's responsibilities under the LoN Covenant was to render administrative assistance and advise. No military was required for its assigned functions.


----------



## toastman (Oct 5, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



What did they use their military for that you think they were not required to?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 5, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


To force colonization on the Palestinians at the point of a gun.


----------



## theliq (Oct 5, 2014)

toastman said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...


As I said You are merely a Strawman,and a compulsive Liar to Boot..........of course these Israeli Terrorists used murder and mayhem to Steal Palestine,and eliminate its legitimate population..............Just like ISIS are doing..........time to go back to the gutter from whence you came.


----------



## toastman (Oct 5, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Ya, right. You made that up to, just like you make everything up.


----------



## toastman (Oct 5, 2014)

theliq said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



Ya, great argument dummie! You obviously are too stupid to even know what a strawman argumenf is, because you just made a massive fool out of yourself.
BTW, it was the Arabs who started with the massacres and killings. Get your shit straight you fuckin parrot


----------



## toastman (Oct 5, 2014)

theliq said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



You also don't know anything about Israels declaration of independence. And it was called Mandatory Palestine and was administered by the British who facilitated Israels declaration of independence. Just because Arabs lived there, they still had NO SOVEREIGNTY over the land. 
The Jews followed the prepatory steps to self determination and declared independence. In other words, they had their shit together while the terrorist  single IQ Palestinians didn't. Hahaha

Boy it must suck to be a pro Palestinian, always being on the losing side


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 5, 2014)

theliq,  _et al,_

I think your post points out something very important.  But first, I must clarify something that has been read into my commentary, but not said.

I never said that the Jewish and the Palestinians hated one another.  In fact, I was very careful not to introduce emotion into the equation.  What I did say was revolved around two points:

[T]here are strains that evolve to be uncontrolled and therefore a serious and unpredictable dangers.
Jewish People needed protection from Hostile Arab Palestinians even before the outbreak of WWI.
_Remembering_ of course, that "Hostile Arab Palestinians" is a subset of  "all Arab Palestinians;" _(not all Palestinians are Hostile --- wherein there are non-Hostile Arab Palestinians)_ and that there are segments _("strains")_ of both communities _(Jewish and Palestinians)_ that are uncontrollable, seriously unpredictable and dangerous.​


theliq said:


> Rocco this is just not true,I personally spoken to Jewish folk and They Said that prior to 1948 they got on very well with Palestinians(as still do),yes they admit there were atrosities sic on both sides prior to 48 but the thought much more of Palestinians than the influx of non European Jews after 1948 and beyond......I have lived in Israel and the tales of Jews hating Palestinians and visa-versa is just Bullshit......Palestinians and Jews got on well at many Jewish and Palestinian events.........all this Hatred is propagated by Zionists,Ultras and other devisive sic Jews.steve Rocco some of your posts are fairly balanced and some not but your contribution is always welcome like Tinnies and others.I will add here that within Israel today there is a Schism between the Secular and Other Jewish Organizations.....of whom you would well know


*(COMMENT)*

"Zionists, Ultras" Yes!  There are within each population, on both sides _(Israeli - Palestinian)_:

(Left-Wing Extremist Views) --- (Moderates and Temperate Views) --- (Right-Wing Extremist Views)​
We tend to assume the position that each commentary comes from either an Extremist View or is stating an Extremist View.  It must be also understood that the description _"prior to 1948 they got on very well with Palestinians(as still do)"_ is very frail, fore if it were more accurate than not --- then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict would have been resolved many decades ago.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 5, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


So why do you think Britain needed a large military to render administrative assistance and advise?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 5, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> theliq,  _et al,_
> 
> I think your post points out something very important.  But first, I must clarify something that has been read into my commentary, but not said.
> 
> ...


Good points.

I don't believe that there is any inherent animosity between most Palestinians and Jews. The hostilities from both sides are the products of Israeli/Zionist policies. When we hear of the dismantlement or distruction of Israel it has nothing to do with the people. It is the changing of the regime that is causing all of the problems.


----------



## toastman (Oct 6, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > theliq,  _et al,_
> ...



Load of crap. The hostility on both sides has a lot tk do with Palestinian terrorism against Israelis.
And when they say they want Israel destroyed, they mean it. If they meant a regime change then they would have said that. You're making excuses for them


----------



## toastman (Oct 6, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > theliq,  _et al,_
> ...



But I do agree with your first phrase.


----------



## montelatici (Oct 6, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...




They just want the European invader's offspring to return to Europe or elsewhere.  Much like Saladin wanted when the Europeans ruled Palestine and beyond for over a century.


----------



## toastman (Oct 6, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Immitrants, not invaders. I already dismantles your invader lie yesterday. 
And you're full if shit....they want Israel gone completely you terrorist supporting shill.
They are not going anywhere. Israelis living in Israel are living in their country.


----------



## toastman (Oct 6, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



How do you think they captured the region from the Ottomans? By asking them to leave?


----------



## montelatici (Oct 6, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



Christians and Muslims were living in Palestine.  Jews from Europe went to Palestine and took over. It wasn't their country they were Europeans.  It was clearly an invasion.


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 6, 2014)

toastman said:


> You have serious reading comprehension issues. Your link does NOT prove your lie that there were no jobs Arabs.


Of coarse it does.  I'll post it again.



> _A* strict policy of what in today's terms would be described as racial discrimination* was maintained by the Zionist Organization... *Only Jewish labour could service Jewish farms and settlements*. The eventual outcome of this trend was a major outbreak of violence with unprecedented loss of life in 1929_


At that time, if you couldn't work on a farm, where could you work? A "strict policy" of racial discrimination not allowing Arabs to work on farms.  If you can't work, that means you got no job!

BTW, where's your proof there were jobs?



toastman said:


> And the major outbreak of violence was started by the Arabs, as Rocco has pointed out by giving specific incidents.


Bullshit!  There was no violence until Zionists migrated in with attitudes like yours.  A large scale migration of narcissistic assholes, such as yourself, come into the area and immediately start treating the existing population of Arabs like garbage.


> _*They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds*; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination ..._'
> _- Ahad Ha'am_


After being treated like that for awhile, the Arabs did oppose.  If Zionists hadn't of came in and treated the Arabs like that, there wouldn't have been a major outbreak of violence.  It was when the Zionists showed up, did the violence begin. It wasn't like that before.



> _*We wish to point out here that the Jewish population of Palestine who lived there before the War never had any trouble with their Arab neighbours.* They enjoyed the same rights and privileges as their fellow Ottoman citizens, and never agitated for the Declaration of November 1917. It is the Zionists outside Palestine who worked for the Balfour Declaration ...
> - Winston Churchill_


Never had any trouble with their Arab neighbors.  But fuckers like you changed all that. 



toastman said:


> You always find some way to justify these attacks against Jews, but you are only making a fool of yourself.


 I"m not justifying anything.  I'm calling you on this bullshit rap you keep spewing.



toastman said:


> ARABS STARTED WITH THE KILLINGS AND MASSACRES. EVEN BEFORE 1900.


Where's your proof of that?



toastman said:


> You fail...again...
> Stick to watching sports you deluded leftist


That was harsh!  I think I'll report you?


----------



## Hossfly (Oct 6, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


Listen and learn.


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## montelatici (Oct 6, 2014)

Oh, more propaganda.  Wonderful.  What a silly twit you are.


----------



## toastman (Oct 6, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > You have serious reading comprehension issues. Your link does NOT prove your lie that there were no jobs Arabs.
> ...



Again, nothing you posted refutes the simple fact that ALL THE MASSACRES AND VIOLENCE WAS STARTED BY THE ARABS. Every massacre has a reason for it, but they don't justify it. Racism or no racism, not a single Arab was KILLED until AFTER Jews were killed.

I can't copy paste for some reason, but open Wikipedia and and type in the following:

1834 Safed Pogrom
1834 Hebron Massacre
1929 Safed Riots

There's your proof. BTW, these were not included in the attacks/massacres that Rocco posted.


----------



## toastman (Oct 6, 2014)

BTW Billo, do you have any specific in incedents to violence against Arabs that precedes the attacks against Jews, or just a vague description?


----------



## toastman (Oct 6, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



You cannot just make your own rules Monti. My previous posts clearly shows that your invasion lie is bullshit. Jews immigrating to Mandatory Palestine after BEING INVITED BY THE BRITISH (ya, the same British who were administered to the region after capturing the region from the Ottomans) is just that, an immigration. An invasion is a MILITARY OFFENSIVE where COMBATANTS go to another territory uninvited with military purpose. These immigrants were not combatants. 
Only AFTER 5 Arabs INVADED the region, did Israel manage to push corward and conquer territory.
Israel did not attack Iraq or Syria or Egypt or Jordan or Lebanon. It was the other was around.

Nothing I said is my opinion. It is a fact that you cannot handle. You can keep spewing the same lie if you want, but it won't change the truth.


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## aris2chat (Oct 6, 2014)

toastman said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 don't forget the '36 arab revolts


----------



## toastman (Oct 6, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



Yes, those revolts are what really changed things in the region in the sense that the Jews were sick of being on the defensive and starting going on the offensive.
It\s absolutely 100% true that Arabs started the hostilities. The evidence is just overwhelming, which is why I laugh when I see pro Palestinians try to make it seem like Jews started attacking first.


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## Billo_Really (Oct 7, 2014)

toastman said:


> Again, nothing you posted refutes the simple fact that ALL THE MASSACRES AND VIOLENCE WAS STARTED BY THE ARABS. Every massacre has a reason for it, but they don't justify it. Racism or no racism, not a single Arab was KILLED until AFTER Jews were killed.


And there wasn't any major incidents of violence, until AFTER Zionists showed up.


toastman said:


> I can't copy paste for some reason, but open Wikipedia and and type in the following:
> 
> 1834 Safed Pogrom


 I'm not sure if this one counts as a "major incident". According to Wikipedia...


> _The sources do not indicate how many Jews died.* It seems to have not been many*, though hundreds were wounded_.


It should also be noted, this was at the top of the Wiki page...


> _The neutrality of this article's title, subject matter, and/or the title's implications, is disputed. _


In any event, I'll give you this one.



toastman said:


> 1834 Hebron Massacre


This was a peasants revolt and not a specific attack on Jews only.



toastman said:


> 1929 Safed Riots


This occurred after the migration.



toastman said:


> There's your proof. BTW, these were not included in the attacks/massacres that Rocco posted.


Well, you get 1/2 point for that.

In summary, you listed one incident of major violence in the span of 100 years.


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 7, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...


Why were they revolting?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 7, 2014)

toastman said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


So why did those dumbards go to Palestine if it was not safe?


----------



## montelatici (Oct 7, 2014)

Europeans were sometimes attacked by the Native Americans, they were not 


toastman said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



It is peculiar how an invading population can claim that hostilities are started by the people they are invading.  In any case, hostilities were initiated by the European Jews almost immediately upon their arrival, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am in the late 1800s.

" The behaviour of settlers disturbed him. They had not learned from experience as a minority, but, like a slave who has become king, "behave towards the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, infringe upon their boundaries, hit them shamefully without reason, and even brag about it". The Arab did indeed respect strength, but only when the other side used it justly. When his opponent's actions were unjust and oppressive, then "he may keep his anger to himself for a time ... but in the long run he will prove to be vengeful and full of retribution".  

David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian


----------



## toastman (Oct 7, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Again, nothing you posted refutes the simple fact that ALL THE MASSACRES AND VIOLENCE WAS STARTED BY THE ARABS. Every massacre has a reason for it, but they don't justify it. Racism or no racism, not a single Arab was KILLED until AFTER Jews were killed.
> ...



I listed several, and if you don't believe the wiki one, you will find other articles on google.
Remember, these do not include the violent attacks that Rocco posted: 1929 Hebron Massacre and the 1936-1939 revolt.

BTW, are you a San Fran fan ?


----------



## toastman (Oct 7, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Europeans were sometimes attacked by the Native Americans, they were not
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> ...



Again, an invasion is a military offensive by combatants as I already proved. And yes, the violent acts WERE initiated by the Arabs as I posted with links. You have not posted any attacks against Arabs that predate the ones I posted against Jews. 
once more, the European Jews were also INVITED BY THE BRITISH.
It's really pathetic that you need to lie all the time to make your point.


----------



## toastman (Oct 7, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...


What a stupid question


----------



## montelatici (Oct 7, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Europeans were sometimes attacked by the Native Americans, they were not
> ...



How can people living in a particular place be accused of starting hostilities against people from another continent intent on stealing their land and evicting them?  You are truly out of your mind.  You just can't get it through your thick skull that the Jews came from Europe to take the land away from the people living there.  So, your contention is that the British invited the Jews to settle in Palestine, take the land from the non-Jews and then evict them.  You are a madman.


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## Billo_Really (Oct 7, 2014)

toastman said:


> I listed several,


You listed 3.



toastman said:


> and if you don't believe the wiki one,


The "wiki one" served its purpose.



toastman said:


> you will find other articles on google.


No need to.



toastman said:


> Remember, these do not include the violent attacks that Rocco posted:


*Rocco's* posts are a violent attack.  I find his data dumps pretty rude.



toastman said:


> 1929 Hebron Massacre and the 1936-1939 revolt.


The '29 Massacre was started by Zionists and the '36-39 revolt I haven't researched yet, so I won't comment on it at this present time.



toastman said:


> BTW, are you a San Fran fan ?


I despise Frisco.   I hate everything east of the Rockies.

BTW, we beat the Nuggets last night with the oldest backcourt in the league.


----------



## toastman (Oct 7, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > I listed several,
> ...



The Hebron Massacre was Arabs Massacring Jews, plain and simple. They did nothing that would justify the behavior of the Arabs.


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 7, 2014)

Billo_Really,  et al,

Just two points:



Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Remember, these do not include the violent attacks that Rocco posted:
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

I'm not sure that I advocated any violence what-so-ever (at least in recent times) in my remarks --- let alone make some "violent attacks."

In the off chance that my commentary might have had some violent overtone, I went back and looked at it again.  I see nothing that supports your allegation.



Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > 1929 Hebron Massacre and the 1936-1939 revolt.
> ...


*(OBSERVATION)*

I offer the following for your consideration:



			
				The disorders of August 1929 said:
			
		

> 39. On the 15th August, 1929, some hundreds of young Jews organised a demonstration at the Wailing Wall, in the course of which the Zionist flag was raised and the Zionist anthem sung. Incensed by this, the Moslems held a counter-demonstration at the same spot on the following day, when written prayers placed in the crevices of the wall by Jewish worshippers were taken out and burned.
> 
> 40. there followed a week of extreme tension. Then, between the 23rd and the 29th August, murderous attacks were made by Arabs on Jews in Jerusalem, Hebron, Safad and in rural areas. In this outbreak 133 Jews were killed (over 60 at Hebron) and 339 wounded. Arab casualties, mostly inflicted by the troops or police, were 116 killed and 232 wounded.
> 
> *SOURCE:*   The Political History of Palestine under British Administration ----- Memorandum by His Britannic Majesty's Government presented in 1947 ---- A/AC.14/8  2 October 1947





			
				Arab Rising said:
			
		

> 73. The Arab rising in Palestine, which began in April, 1936, was influenced by the recent example of nationalist movements in neighbouring Arab countries. Rioting in Egypt during the autumn of 1935 had been followed by a declaration of the British government’s willingness to negotiate an Anglo-Egyptian Treaty. And in January, 1936, a strike began in Syria which was not terminated until the French government announced their decision to negotiate an agreement for the termination of the Mandate.
> *The Arab Rebellion, 1936-1939*
> 
> 74. On the night of the 15th April, 1936, three Jews were killed by Arabs between Tulkarm and Nablus. On the following night two Arabs were killed near the Jewish town of Petah Tiqva. These murders led to disorders in Jaffa and Tel Aviv a few days later.
> ...



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 7, 2014)

toastman said:


> The Hebron Massacre was Arabs Massacring Jews, plain and simple. They did nothing that would justify the behavior of the Arabs.


Doesn't matter whether it was justified or not, Zionists started the riots when hundreds of them marched down to the Wailing Wall declaring it* "THEIRS!"
*
_



			In mid-August 1929, hundreds of Jewish nationalists marched to the Western Wall in Jerusalem shouting slogans such as The Wall is Ours and raising the Jewish national flag

Click to expand...

If Zionists weren't so god-damn selfish, the riots might never of happened._


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 8, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Just two points:
> 
> I'm not sure that I advocated any violence what-so-ever (at least in recent times) in my remarks --- let alone make some "violent attacks."


I didn't say you advocated violence or made some violent attacks.  I said I found your posts to be a violent attack.  One runs the risk of retinal damage reading these "page long" rebuttals of yours.  Winning an argument or online debate, is not based on the size of your post.  In addition to that, the effort one has to go through, just to respond to your posts, is disgusting.  It's as though you are punishing the reader for his rebuttal.



RoccoR said:


> In the off chance that my commentary might have had some violent overtone, I went back and looked at it again.  I see nothing that supports your allegation.


Maybe because I didn't make it.  You should go back and read "my" commentary and spend a little more time understanding the point "I" was trying to make.



RoccoR said:


> I offer the following for your consideration:
> 
> The disorders of August 1929
> 39. On the 15th August, 1929, some hundreds of young Jews organised a demonstration at the Wailing Wall, in the course of which the Zionist flag was raised and the Zionist anthem sung. Incensed by this, the Moslems held a counter-demonstration at the same spot on the following day, when written prayers placed in the crevices of the wall by Jewish worshippers were taken out and burned.


Interesting how your source doesn't say what song they were singing?



RoccoR said:


> Arab Rising
> 73. The Arab rising in Palestine, which began in April, 1936, was influenced by the recent example of nationalist movements in neighbouring Arab countries. Rioting in Egypt during the autumn of 1935 had been followed by a declaration of the British government’s willingness to negotiate an Anglo-Egyptian Treaty. And in January, 1936, a strike began in Syria which was not terminated until the French government announced their decision to negotiate an agreement for the termination of the Mandate.
> *The Arab Rebellion, 1936-1939*
> 
> ...


The '36 riots were more directed at the British government in Palestine, than it was the Jews.



> _And there was one feature of this last outbreak of Arab violence which was as unprecedented as it was significant. In 1920, 1921 and 1929 the Arabs had attacked the Jews. *In 1933 they attacked the Government* ._


----------



## toastman (Oct 8, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > The Hebron Massacre was Arabs Massacring Jews, plain and simple. They did nothing that would justify the behavior of the Arabs.
> ...


 It DOES matter if it was justified or not. The original discussion was who started attacking who, and the answer to that is CLEARLY the Arabs started attacking the Jews. Weather or weather not they claimed the Wall to be theirs only, that doesn't merit the killing of all those women and children.


----------



## toastman (Oct 8, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


Very simple Monti. All the massacres and attack against the Jews happened BEFORE any evicting. The evicting took place during the civil war and the Arab Israeli war. Are you that stupid that you cannot comprehend that ARABS TARTED KILLING JEWS WAY BEFORE ANY OF THE STUFF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HAPPENED. 
It was only after 5 Arab armies started attacking Israel, that Israel fought back and advanced through the territory.

It's incredible that you cannot understand the simple concept of events taking place prior to other events.


----------



## aris2chat (Oct 8, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > The Hebron Massacre was Arabs Massacring Jews, plain and simple. They did nothing that would justify the behavior of the Arabs.
> ...




Nebi and Jaffa riots were in the early twenties.

1868, '87, '90, '91, '95, '97, 1900, '03, '08 ........ saw arab protest over the permission of jewish aliyas and settlement of jews on purchased land

Britain had been promoting the idea of a jewish state 60 years before the first zionish congress in 1897.

1881 and 82 was anti-christian riots by the arabs.

Don't act like it was anything except the arabs that began violence in the area.  You obviously did not bother to get all the facts before opening your mouth (typing on the keyboard)


----------



## Humanity (Oct 8, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



Yes, it is incredible that you cannot understand the simple concept of events taking place prior to other events...

Imagine this... 

A group of people from one continent move to another, against the will of the local inhabitants, and the local inhabitants 'protest'...

Can you see the concept of events now?


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## Phoenall (Oct 8, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > theliq,  _et al,_
> ...





 What is yours when the evidence of ISLAMONAZI TERRORISM goes back to 632 C.E. under Mohamed the perfect muslim. Didn't he mass murder a Jewish tribe because they refused to worship him as god and then instigate an ethnic cleansing of the world Jews, starting with Medina. He tells the tale of murdering a man and raping his 12 year old daughter in his blood as an object lesson to all the other Jews in the M.E.

So who started terrorist organisations to protect their colonial project again.....................................


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## Humanity (Oct 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...



You really do need to get out of the dark ages Phoenall and look to the future, a peaceful future...

If you read through all of the ancient history there are plenty of atrocities from both sides!


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## Phoenall (Oct 8, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Androw said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...





 The words of an ANTI SEMITIC JEW HATING committee in the pay of arab muslims  as you have been told before. Not everything in the UN archives is the truth you know, and many items are shown to be thus. This is one of those documents that was later shown to be false. By repeatedly referring to it shows that you have no interest in the truth and just in your ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA


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## Phoenall (Oct 8, 2014)

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...





 Was the bombing of the PanAm plane over England, the WTC and London transport your definition of defending against occupation you moron.


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## Phoenall (Oct 8, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Oh dear Rocco.  You have been found out and are responding as a child would.  Grow up.  The Jews were the terrorists in Palestine, the local people just wanted to be left alone and did not want t be invaded by Europeans.




 So you are saying that the arab muslims did not show their faces in Palestine until after the Ottomans invited the European Jews to migrate and settle in 1850. Even though history shows that the arab muslims started to terrorise the Jews back in 632 C.E. on the command of Mohamed. It is even written in your scriptures that the Jews and Christians are to be mass murdered and ethnically cleansed from the M.E, and not even you dare deny the words of your god when he stated that everything in the Koran is inviolate and the truth


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## Phoenall (Oct 8, 2014)

Humanity said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...





 But it did not happen like that did it, it all started in the 1800's when the Ottomans invited European Jews to migrate and settle in Palestine. This they did and the arab muslims followed shortly after on the promise of work. The migration and land purchase from Ottoman landlords went on until the outbreak of WW1. By this time the "invaders" were 2nd and 3rd generation Palestinians and the local inhabitants welcomed their farming skills as they impacted on their ability to grow more crops. It was not until after WW1 that the arabs were fired up by the new arab nationalism and they started ethnic cleansing of non muslims from land they claimed was theirs. So yes the local Jewish inhabitants did protest against the foreign invaders and formed defensive groups to combat the menace of arab nationalism formented by the mufti who later joined forces with the Nazis


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## Phoenall (Oct 8, 2014)

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...





 Of course there is, but only one of the groups has it as a religious command to "Kill the Jews" and practise it with great feeling. If Mohamed had never been born you would either be a Christian or a Moon worshiper just as your ancestors were. There would also be peace in the world as no muslims would be stealing other peoples land, or hacking of the heads of innocents to terrorise the world.


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## Challenger (Oct 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> ....Was the bombing of the PanAm plane over England, the WTC and London transport your definition of defending against occupation you moron.



Well let's see, we have a Libyan, Saudi Arabians, Pakistanis and a Jamaican...nothing to do with Palestinians, just a result of the West's misguided foreign policies. You also forgot the Madrid bombings btw..


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## toastman (Oct 8, 2014)

Humanity said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Protest? No. They started massacring and attacking Jews . Local and not local. BEFORE any Arab was killed by Jews. Can you not comprehend something so simple ?


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## montelatici (Oct 8, 2014)

The Jews began killing Arabs as soon as they arrived:



toastman said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



The Zionists shot many Arabs, especially shepherds, before any Jew was killed.  Ahad Ha'am even wrote about the mistreatment of the Arabs by Jews in the late 1800s.  Can't you get this through your thick skull.   

"Ha'am has no truck with such wishful thinking. The behaviour of settlers disturbed him. They had not learned from experience as a minority, but, like a slave who has become king, "behave towards the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, infringe upon their boundaries, hit them shamefully without reason, and even brag about it".

David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian


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## toastman (Oct 8, 2014)

montelatici said:


> The Jews began killing Arabs as soon as they arrived:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Than post a specific incident that precedes the ones that Rocco and I posted.


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## montelatici (Oct 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Androw said:
> ...



It was never shown to be false, liar.  You just can't take the truth.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 8, 2014)

montelatici said:


> The Jews began killing Arabs as soon as they arrived: ...


Must've been a *horde* of arriving arabs!


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## Dogmaphobe (Oct 8, 2014)

One needs to be able to understand Pally-talk in order to get the full gist of threads such as these.

Here are some Palestinian "farmers"





These, however, are Palestinian "fishermen"





and should you ever wonder what is meant by "children throwing rocks"....







any questions?


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## Phoenall (Oct 8, 2014)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > ....Was the bombing of the PanAm plane over England, the WTC and London transport your definition of defending against occupation you moron.
> ...






 They all used the Palestinian/Israeli conflict as one of the reasons for murdering innocents


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## Phoenall (Oct 8, 2014)

montelatici said:


> The Jews began killing Arabs as soon as they arrived:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





 So the Jews had guns 1,000 years before they were invented did they to shoot the arab muslims  who were massacring the Jewish tribe in medina


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## Phoenall (Oct 8, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...





 The title alone shows it to be false dimwit, as an interim report is one that is presented without being verified so has no validity.


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## montelatici (Oct 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...




Interim means an interim period of the Mandate you idiot.  There are interim reports for various years of the Mandate.  Sheesh, you are truly one stupid poster.


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## Billo_Really (Oct 8, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> One needs to be able to understand Pally-talk in order to get the full gist of threads such as these.
> 
> Here are some Palestinian "farmers"
> 
> ...


Nice try.

Here's the IDF shooting at Palestinian farmers.



Here's the IDF shooting at Palestinian fishermen.



You've got to be really sick in the head, to do something like this.


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## Kondor3 (Oct 8, 2014)

They (the Palestinians) can make it stop any time they like...

Run up the white flag...


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## Hossfly (Oct 8, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > One needs to be able to understand Pally-talk in order to get the full gist of threads such as these.
> ...


What did they do to get the attention of the IDF?


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


The Palestinians did those things?

Got a link?


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


SAID LIKE A TRUE ZIONIST MORON


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

toastman said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


How Silly You Are Toastie.......you are excused,as you are no longer required because of your myopic view......for the implementation of the 2 state solution,which is our desire......both sides......Toddle Off.steve


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Androw said:
> ...


Jews are part Arab,Canaan,Philistine,Black Egyptian/African.....you should know that


----------



## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Androw said:
> ...


YOU are not a Semitic people.....Only Shepardic Jews and Palestinians are Semitic..............the Euro Jews ARE NOT SEMITIC.....you obviously don't know the meaning of the word....You Fool.steve


----------



## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> They (the Palestinians) can make it stop any time they like...
> 
> Run up the white flag...


We don't have a White(Cowards)Flag you Fool.......as History has proven.........as the World knows....Viva Palestine


----------



## toastman (Oct 9, 2014)

theliq said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Why does the truth anger you so much ?


----------



## toastman (Oct 9, 2014)

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


Steve, the word anti - Semitic has to do with all Jews. That is simply the definition of it. Stop trying to be a smart ass and stop whining.


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






NOPE Mohamed it is an INTERIM REPORT outside of the usual ANNUAL REPORTS


*interim*
[in-ter-uh m]  /ˈɪn tər əm/ Spell Syllables

 Examples 
 Word Origin 
noun
1.
an intervening time; interval; meantime :
in the interim.
2.
a temporary or provisional arrangement; stopgap; makeshift.
3.
(initial capital letter) Church History. any of three provisional arrangements for the settlement of religious differences between German Protestants and Roman Catholics during the Reformation.
adjective
4.
for, during, belonging to, or connected with an intervening period of time; temporary; provisional:
an interim order.
adverb
5.
meantime.

Interim Define Interim at Dictionary.com


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > One needs to be able to understand Pally-talk in order to get the full gist of threads such as these.
> ...






 You have to be obsessed and completely brainwashed to not see there is no validity in either of these films as they do not show what they claim.

In the first one the birds are not frightened by the LOUD explosions supposedly coming from assault rifles, followed by the crack of a pistol. Badly dubbed and even more badly edited to show nothing.
 The second shows a Palestinian boat leaving the fishing zone and having warning shots fired into the water to force it back inside the area. They know the rules and will stretch them as far as they can, then claim they were doing nothing wrong. Did you see the coarse cargo net they were using, no good for catching fish but acceptable for snagging boxes dropped in the shallow water.


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## Kondor3 (Oct 9, 2014)

theliq said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > They (the Palestinians) can make it stop any time they like...
> ...


Then die.

Equally acceptable.

Albeit sadly unnecessary.

Your choice.

Palestinian Mentality strikes again.


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## Challenger (Oct 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Dogmaphobe said:
> ...



In full screen, you can see plenty of startled birds close to where the fire was coming from so you are clearly watching some other video. As for the bird in the foreground, who knows why it wasn't startled, but that's not a unknown phenomenon. I've seen sheep quietly carry on munching grass when on the recieving end of 30mm HE rounds, even when one of their number gets blown to pieces, wierd, but true.

As for the fishermen, the fishing nets look a standard size to me and "the rules" give them rights to fish up to 20 nautical miles until the Zionist seige. Fishermen don't get killed by "warning shots"


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## docmauser1 (Oct 9, 2014)

Challenger said:


> As for the fishermen, the fishing nets look a standard size to me and "the rules" give them rights to fish up to 20 nautical miles until the Zionist seige. Fishermen don't get killed by "warning shots"


Sharks?


----------



## Challenger (Oct 9, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > As for the fishermen, the fishing nets look a standard size to me and "the rules" give them rights to fish up to 20 nautical miles until the Zionist seige. Fishermen don't get killed by "warning shots"
> ...


Only the Zionist ones.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 9, 2014)

Challenger said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...


Cool.


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

"Probably because you're full of it."

He sure is.  I caught him out heavy just a while ago.  I have been posting actual population numbers and migration numbers from the UN archives as reported by the Mandatory.  In the 1921 Report it shows that Muslims are 4/5s of the population and that there are a few more Christians than Jews, who represent around 5% of the population.  So this Bozo Docmauser shoots off his mouth, without reading the report, and does the usual Zionist Jordan is part of Palestine thing and that the Muslims in Jordan were included in the population of Palestine.  Little did he know that Trans-Jordan was considered a separate territory and the population of Jordon (350,000) was discussed in that separate section of the Report.  What a clown.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> "Probably because you're full of it." He sure is.  I caught him out heavy just a while ago.  I have been posting actual population numbers and migration numbers from the UN archives as reported by the Mandatory.  In the 1921 Report it shows that Muslims are 4/5s of the population and that there are a few more Christians than Jews, who represent around 5% of the population.  So this Bozo Docmauser shoots off his mouth, without reading the report, and does the usual Zionist Jordan is part of Palestine thing and that the Muslims in Jordan were included in the population of Palestine.  Little did he know that Trans-Jordan was considered a separate territory and the population of Jordon (350,000) was discussed in that separate section of the Report.  What a clown.


[yawn] Now that our honorable montelatici has vented his funny air, let him enlighten us as to how those major arab settlers and squatters from the hood all got to be saudi sheiks to own(!) 90%(!) of the government-owned mandate palestine.


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## Hossfly (Oct 9, 2014)

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


It is laughable to see someone who is no doubt bonkers calling others fools like he is King of the World when it comes to knowledge.  How come, Steve, you forget mentioning that the Jews of the Middle East are mainly called the Mizrahi Jews?  However, genetic testing will show that the Jews of the world are all the same regardless of where their ancestors landed up after leaving Israel.  Maybe you should test your own genes as you might be Jewish too.  I don't think you are an aborigine from Australia who wants the White man to give back the land to him.

Click here: Genetic Testing Kits Help People Discover Jewish Roots - Israel News


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



You really are a dummy.  All the reports are interim as they are not the final report which would be issued at the end of the Mandate.  But go ahead and continue demonstrating what a dummy you are.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> You really are a dummy.  All the reports are interim as they are not the final report which would be issued at the end of the Mandate.  But go ahead and continue demonstrating what a dummy you are.


So, how come those arab settling-squatting "saudi sheiks" happened to "own"(!) 90%(!) of the mandate palestine, if a systematic survey of the lands had never been done?


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 10, 2014)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...






Then explain the one stood on a rock that does not even flinch when the first rounds are heard. No muzzle flashes from the direction of the vehicles to show that the people there had fired any weapons. And if you look even closer all the alleged IDF soldiers are behind the rear vehicles side panels as at least 6 rounds are fired

Then you know nothing about fishing in the Med or anywhere else. The nets were of a coarse rope material not monofilament as is usual ( 100 metres of mono gill net costs about £100 sterling, 100 metres of coarse cargo net costs about £1,000 STERLING ) The net seen is cargo netting and is only small, so no good for catching fish but fine for catching boxes of weapons or ammunition.
 The rules go out the window when you engage in terrorist activities and then you are placed behind a wall. The shots are seen very clearly to hit the water, and no one was injured in the video if you look


 The nets in pictures


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## Phoenall (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> "Probably because you're full of it."
> 
> He sure is.  I caught him out heavy just a while ago.  I have been posting actual population numbers and migration numbers from the UN archives as reported by the Mandatory.  In the 1921 Report it shows that Muslims are 4/5s of the population and that there are a few more Christians than Jews, who represent around 5% of the population.  So this Bozo Docmauser shoots off his mouth, without reading the report, and does the usual Zionist Jordan is part of Palestine thing and that the Muslims in Jordan were included in the population of Palestine.  Little did he know that Trans-Jordan was considered a separate territory and the population of Jordon (350,000) was discussed in that separate section of the Report.  What a clown.





 That was later shown to be false information produced by bribed interviewers. Now about table 1 again, why have you stopped using it and why have you stopped giving the link ?


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...





 So you now change your tune and state that the reports are INTERIM with all that this term contains, being temporary or provisional and are not to be used as the SINE DIE to the report.

When you talk about dummies try looking in the mirror Mohamed as there is the real dummy.

 Caught out once again peddling false information and trying to pass it of as valid.


----------



## Andylusion (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Androw said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



Which still indicates what?   "*Prior to 1850 there were in the country (STILL, AS THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN) a handful of Jews"*

See you look at that, as if that proves Jews were not there.   In reality, you proved exactly what I said.   There have *ALWAYS BEEN JEWS IN ISRAEL*.     >>*ALWAYS*<<

What part of that do you not get?   There have *ALWAYS* been jews in Israel, since the Babylonian Empire.

Which word in that statement do you not grasp?   There have.... *always* been *Jews* in *Israel* since the Babylonians.

This is not a difficult, or complex statement.  It barely requires a 4th grade reading ability.   And nothing you have said at any point, does anything but prove my statement true.

Would you care to continue?


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## Andylusion (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Oh dear Rocco.  You have been found out and are responding as a child would.  Grow up.  The Jews were the terrorists in Palestine, the local people just wanted to be left alone and did not want t be invaded by Europeans.



Oh dear Montelacrap.  You have been found out, and are responding to an accurate and truthful post, as a child would, by claiming others need to grow up.   There were a few specific people who acted like terrorist, which of course never happens in any other country in the world.   No American has ever acted like a terrorist.  Or UK, or German, or Irish, or Russian, or African...  nope every other country is full of innocent angels, which is why you think you have the moral arrogance to attack one group over any other.

Montelacrap.... grow up.


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## Dogmaphobe (Oct 10, 2014)

Androw said:


> .
> 
> Montelacrap.... grow up.



and while he's at it, perhaps he can start working on his issues.

Ethnic hatreds such as his stem from a profound lack of self-esteem. When worthless individuals look inside themselves and see nothing at all positive, it is all to easy for them to hate a convenient target than it is to deal with the real issue.

People who amount to something don't need that crutch.


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## montelatici (Oct 10, 2014)

Androw said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Androw said:
> ...



So what if there have always been a few hundred Jews in Palestine there have always been a few hundred Samaritans in Palestine, so what?  There have always been a few Greeks in Turkey, what claim does that give to Greeks to return to Anatolia and expel the Turks?

There had always been a handful of Germans in France, living in a small section of France called Alsace-Lorraine.  Does it mean that the Germans would be justified in settling in all of France and expelling the French?  

It is an easy question.


----------



## montelatici (Oct 10, 2014)

Androw said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Oh dear Rocco.  You have been found out and are responding as a child would.  Grow up.  The Jews were the terrorists in Palestine, the local people just wanted to be left alone and did not want t be invaded by Europeans.
> ...



"There were a few specific people who acted like terrorist"

There are always specific people "who acted like terrorist".  What's your point?  Who is attacking one group over another?  Muslim, Jewish, Christian, Hindu terrorists or freedom fighters are one or the other depending on one's point of view.  The Contras were terrorists to some and freedom fighters to others.  Afghan Muhajedin were freedom fighters when fighting the Russians and became terrorists when fighting NATO. The British considered the IRA terrorists, the Irish considered them freedom fighters.  Grow up.


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## Andylusion (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Androw said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



And Germans do hold land that previously belonged to other people.  So do the French, and the English, and the Spanish.

All peoples own land that other peoples have owned prior.

Can the people who lived on the land that YOU live in right now, kick you out?  Or will you stop them?  

Pretty easy for you to demand others obey a principal that you yourself have not, and will never follow.

Grow up.


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## Andylusion (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Androw said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Thanks.  You made my point.  How about you grasp it enough, to stop singling out the Jews.

The Irish did not all consider them freedom fighters.   And even then, the IRA wasn't blowing up their own children, to kill other Children.   The Jewish terrorist groups for far more like the IRA, than they are like the Muslim groups who specifically blow up their own kids, to kill other kids.  It's not similar in any way.    Nor did I see the IRA hiding behind their women and children as human shields.

Not comparable.  The people you defend are dogs, and you are a dog to defend them.


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## Challenger (Oct 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Then explain the one stood on a rock that does not even flinch when the first rounds are heard. No muzzle flashes from the direction of the vehicles to show that the people there had fired any weapons. And if you look even closer all the alleged IDF soldiers are behind the rear vehicles side panels as at least 6 rounds are fired



This film clip is shot by well meaning amateurs, who after the rounds are heard concentrate on filming the vehicles, oblivious of the fact that the fire is coming from the soldiers you see adopting the prone position at around the 25 second mark in the video to the left of the main group of vehicles. Clearly you have never been around real guns or you would know you can't see muzzle flashes in daylight very easily if at all, especially as most military rifles have flash suppressors fitted. You are more likely to see a small amount gunsmoke (depending on the type of ammo used) or a little dust kicked up in front of the barrel. I am however inclined to agree with your earlier post that some sound effects may have been added for effect, as at that range, gunshots are more likely to sound like snapping twigs and would not be that loud. I think you'll find I mentioned the "bird on the rock" in my last post.    



			
				Phoenall said:
			
		

> Then you know nothing about fishing in the Med or anywhere else. The nets were of a coarse rope material not monofilament as is usual ( 100 metres of mono gill net costs about £100 sterling, 100 metres of coarse cargo net costs about £1,000 STERLING ) The net seen is cargo netting and is only small, so no good for catching fish but fine for catching boxes of weapons or ammunition.



Most of the netting being reeled in was of the fine mesh variety although there was some nor coarse netting seen for a second or two before the firing started but its unclear if it was part of the actual net being reeled out or had just gotten in the way and was being moved, anyway why shouldn't a fishing boat also have coarse netting on board? The original footage came from the Al Hiwar Satellite TV Channel and is a lot longer than the clip posted. If the Zionist JSIL navy really believed these fishermen were trying to smuggle arms into Gaza, they'd stop the boat and search it. This was just another incident to show the Palestinians who the boss is. Several fishermen have been killed by the IDF in the past and these events are commonplace as part of the ongoing siege.




			
				Phoenall said:
			
		

> The rules go out the window when you engage in terrorist activities and then you are placed behind a wall...



So these fishermen are "terrorists" and your evidence for this assertion is?


----------



## Andylusion (Oct 10, 2014)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Then explain the one stood on a rock that does not even flinch when the first rounds are heard. No muzzle flashes from the direction of the vehicles to show that the people there had fired any weapons. And if you look even closer all the alleged IDF soldiers are behind the rear vehicles side panels as at least 6 rounds are fired
> ...



The actions that the Palestinian people have taken in the past 10 years, have made them *ALL* terrorists in my mind.  They are *ALL* guilty.


They are dogs.  Animals.   All of them.  No excuses.  No rationalizations.   They attack other people like they have no value, because THEY have no value.

Hard to gather sympathy for animals that act this way.   If they were dogs, they'd be shot for being rabid.    So.... I support Israel.   Let the dogs die.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 10, 2014)

Challenger said:


> Most of the netting being reeled in was of the fine mesh variety although there was some nor coarse netting seen for a second or two before the firing started but its unclear if it was part of the actual net being reeled out or had just gotten in the way and was being moved, anyway why shouldn't a fishing boat also have coarse netting on board? The original footage came from the Al Hiwar Satellite TV Channel and is a lot longer than the clip posted. If the Zionist JSIL navy really believed these fishermen were trying to smuggle arms into Gaza, they'd stop the boat and search it. This was just another incident to show the Palestinians who the boss is. Several fishermen have been killed by the IDF in the past and these events are commonplace as part of the ongoing siege.


Was that a martyrdom for footage footage?


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## Phoenall (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Androw said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...





 And the easy answer is there have only been arab muslim Palestinians in Palestine for a few generations, they were expelled in 1099 and did not resurface until the 1800's. That is 700 yours without any arab muslims in Palestine, plenty of muslims from Ottoman lands but none from the east or south east. The Jews in Palestine were not just gathered in one tiny part they were spread all over the land in groups that eked a living from the barren earth made fertile again so they have a claim in that respect. But the major claim comes from CUSTOMARY INTERNBATIONAL LAW that gave the land of Palestine to the Jews. The lands legal owners did not give the land to the arab muslims but told them they could stay as Isreali citizens in the Jewish state of Israel, and that is were the trouble starts as the arab muslims would then be subservient to the Jews.


----------



## montelatici (Oct 10, 2014)

Androw said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Androw said:
> ...



You are wrong or deranged on all counts.

1. Most if not all Catholics consider the IRA Freedom Fighters about the same proportion that Palestinians consider their militants Freedom Fighters.. Your claim is just silly.

2. List including Catholic children killed by the IRA:

Articles re Attacks on Children

3. Human shields:


Androw said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Androw said:
> ...



The Jews have every right to try to keep the stolen land, on the other hand, the Christians and Muslims have every right to try to get their land back by any means possible.  You people would take that right away from them.  

Of course, there could be a compromise where a secular state is formed where all people of Palestine, of whatever religion, have equal rights.


----------



## montelatici (Oct 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Androw said:
> ...



Muslims and Christians have been in Palestine.  The Muslims were expelled along with the Jews by the Crusaders.  The Muslims returned with Saladin in 1188.

Plan Dalet required that the non-Jews be removed.

In fact, everything you wrote is bullshit.


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 10, 2014)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Then explain the one stood on a rock that does not even flinch when the first rounds are heard. No muzzle flashes from the direction of the vehicles to show that the people there had fired any weapons. And if you look even closer all the alleged IDF soldiers are behind the rear vehicles side panels as at least 6 rounds are fired
> ...





 If they are deliberately going outside the area to incite a reaction then they are acting as terrorists, just as the human shields are acting as terrorists. They do not have to commit an act of violence to be a terrorist, just support the terrorists in some manner.


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> 1. Most if not all Catholics consider the IRA Freedom Fighters about the same proportion that Palestinians consider their militants Freedom Fighters..


Cool! Defeats the claims that, most of palistanians are longing for peace, and it's only a handful of their miscreants who starts the trouble.


montelatici said:


> Bullshit.  Ancestors of the Palestinians, Christians and Muslims today, have lived in Palestine since before there were Jews.  Their religion at the time and what they converted to has nothing to do with it.


Bullshit, indeed.


montelatici said:


> Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921


It must've been mucho frustrating to struggle with the ottoman land registry (and land itself), and they invented an arab settling-squatting "sheikh" to own(!) 90%(!) of the mandate palestine. hehe


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 10, 2014)

Challenger,  _et al,_

I looked at the video several times.  I don't see an "attack."



Challenger said:


> So these fishermen are "terrorists" and your evidence for this assertion is?


*(COMMENT)*

What I do see is an approach and interdiction by a fast patrol boat.  It seems to me to be a pretty standard interdiction.  The shots fired were clearly in the water, attempting to warn-off multiple fishing boats attempting to violate the standing *Notice to Mariners*.  

It appears to be an attempt at creating an incident for media shock value.

As soon as you hear the one female camera operator shout that they are in "International Waters," --- you know right away that they are in violation of the block established by the Israeli Navy under the San Remo Manual.

While there is no evidence that the operators were terrorists, there is not obvious evidence that they were engaged in fishing activity.  It appears to be a provoked confrontation in order to capture video of an Israel interdiction on restricted waters.

I would not use this video in attempting to prove your point.  It doesn't do it very well. 

BTW, I think this might be an older video.  The Israel Patrol Boat seems to be of the Dubar Class (older series).

Most Respectfully,
R


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## docmauser1 (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> The Jews have every right to try to keep the stolen land, on the other hand, the Christians and Muslims have every right to try to get their land back by any means possible.  You people would take that right away from them.


Noone can take away a figment of the palistanian sick imagination, of course.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Of course, there could be a compromise where a secular state is formed where all people of Palestine, of whatever religion, have equal rights.


With the palistanian "rights" more equal, than those of others, of course.


----------



## montelatici (Oct 10, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Of course, there could be a compromise where a secular state is formed where all people of Palestine, of whatever religion, have equal rights.
> ...



No, equal rights for all.


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


Why? Surely, palistanians have their equal rights in their palistan.


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## aris2chat (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Androw said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



You're full of the blarney


----------



## montelatici (Oct 10, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...



Yes, the Australians in Palistan have the same rights as other Australians.


----------



## Andylusion (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> 2. List including Catholic children killed by the IRA:
> 
> Articles re Attacks on Children
> 
> ...



Take it away from them?   That's not even possible.   You can't stop someone from fighting, if they want to fight.

I'm actually the complete opposite of what you suggest.  I *HOPE* they keep fighting, and I support Israel completely wiping them out.  I want Israel to bomb, shoot, and roll over, and completely CONQUER the ENTIRE land of Israel.

So no, absolutely not.  I don't want to stop them from fighting at all.  Let them fight, and be killed, and driven out of Israel completely.  They act like mad dogs, and should be killed as such.

Actually, that's not fair to dogs.  When you threaten the pubs of a dog, it will do everything in it's power to tear you to bits.   Never seen a dog yet, then when it's pubs are threatened, it says "I'll show you" and starts strapping bombs to it's pubs.   They are BELOW dogs.  They are rodents.  Rodents eat their young.   That's what these people are.  Let them fight, and die, and I won't shed a tear for their evil immoral, inhuman actions.












I look forward to, I pray for, I hope soon, that this map will have ZERO green areas, and all will be white under the Star of David.

So no, no I don't want them to stop fighting at all.  Let them fight.  Let them kill themselves fighting a battle they have no chance of winning.  Let them wipe themselves off the face of the Earth by the sword of Israel.   They earned it... they deserve it...  they asked for it... they demanded it.... let them have it.  By all means.  You have my seal of approval.  Go get yourself killed.  We won't miss these rodents when they are gone.

Back to your list of dead children from the Irish......  did you read your list?   Read:


Died over two months after being shot during gun battle, near St Peter's
School

Shot while travelling in stolen car in Belfast city centre.
Catholic (IRA Youth Section)

Shot, in error, by other Irish Republican Army member, while setting
up ambush of British Army BA patrol

Died one day after being shot during gun battle between Irish Republican
Army IRA and Loyalists

Died in premature bomb explosion i
n house

Shot during gun battle

Died in premature explosion of incendiary device at her home

Now..... compare that to:


*Dizengoff Center suicide bombing*
Dizengoff Center suicide bombing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

"The suicide bomber blew himself up outside Dizengoff Center in downtown Tel Aviv, killing 13 Israelis"


Kobi Zaharon, 13, of Tel Aviv
Yovav Levy, 13, of Tel Aviv
Dana Guterman, 14, of Moshav Mishmeret
Bat-Hen Shahak, 15, of Tel Mond
Hadas Dror, 15, of Tel Mond
Inbar Atiya, 22, of Ramat Ef'al[5]
St.-Sgt. Assaf Wachs, 21, of Holon

Tali Gordon, 24, of Givatayim[5]
Gail Belkin, 48, of Herzliya
Dan Tversky, 58, of Tel Aviv
Leah Mizrahi, 60, of Tel Aviv
Sylvia Bernstein, 73, of Hod Hasharon
Rahel Sela, 82, of Tel Aviv
Why?   Were they making bombs?   Attacking police?  Trying to setup an ambush?  Targeting military personnel?  Were they riding around in a stolen car?


*They were going to a mall.*

Slight difference between the majority of IRA killings, and the Jewish terrorist killings, and these sub-human rodents you are defending.


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 10, 2014)

Androw said:


> They are dogs.  Animals.   All of them.  No excuses.  No rationalizations.   They attack other people like they have no value, because THEY have no value.
> 
> Hard to gather sympathy for animals that act this way.   If they were dogs, they'd be shot for being rabid.    So.... I support Israel.   Let the dogs die.


That's funny, I feel the same way about you!


----------



## montelatici (Oct 10, 2014)

Androw said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > 2. List including Catholic children killed by the IRA:
> ...



The Nazis referred to the Jews as rodents too.  I see where you are coming from, you are a latter day Nazi, reveling in the murder of hundreds of Palestinian children by the Zionazis.  To you they are rodents anyway.  You are disgusting.


----------



## Andylusion (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Oh bull crap!  LOL

For thousands of years, Jews lived there without equal rights.   And there certainly are not equal rights in any country in the world.

Who are you to judge others?  What makes your morals better than any others?

Why don't you demand equal rights in Saudi Arabia.  Yeah, go complain about that in Arabia.  Make sure to smile at your youtube beheading.

Arabs are treated a hundred times better in Israel, than any Jew caught in Syria or Iraq, Iran right now, or ever before.

You are such a hypocritical bigot.  Equal rights, while defending people that have no such concept.   When the Muslim country treat their citizens a fraction as good as Israel treats it's people... you can try and make a point.  Until them, you just spewing crap on here.


----------



## Andylusion (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Androw said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



I could not possible care less what a rodent thinks.   I stand by my comments 100%.  As long as you support people who put bombs on their own kids, I couldn't care less what you think about anything.  I'm here to stand up for what is absolutely right, and I know I'm right.  And what you think has no value to anyone who matters.  If anything, the fact you oppose it, just adds justification for my position.  When evil people are completely against something, it's usually because it's good.


----------



## Andylusion (Oct 10, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Androw said:
> 
> 
> > They are dogs.  Animals.   All of them.  No excuses.  No rationalizations.   They attack other people like they have no value, because THEY have no value.
> ...



Lucky for me, I don't give a crap what you feel.  Rodents, support rodents.  What a shock.  Birds of a feather, huh?  Go strap a bomb on your child, and see if I care what happens to you or your family.


----------



## montelatici (Oct 10, 2014)

Androw said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Androw said:
> ...



Typical Nazi.  Keep it up.


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 10, 2014)

Androw said:


> Lucky for me, I don't give a crap what you feel.  Rodents, support rodents.  What a shock.  Birds of a feather, huh?  Go strap a bomb on your child, and see if I care what happens to you or your family.


Spoken like a true jihadist.


----------



## Hossfly (Oct 10, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Androw said:
> 
> 
> > Lucky for me, I don't give a crap what you feel.  Rodents, support rodents.  What a shock.  Birds of a feather, huh?  Go strap a bomb on your child, and see if I care what happens to you or your family.
> ...


Maybe the worm is turning.


----------



## Andylusion (Oct 10, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Androw said:
> 
> 
> > Lucky for me, I don't give a crap what you feel.  Rodents, support rodents.  What a shock.  Birds of a feather, huh?  Go strap a bomb on your child, and see if I care what happens to you or your family.
> ...





montelatici said:


> Androw said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



Still don't care.  I support Israel, and the complete domination of the entire Israeli homeland, and the elimination of rodents who strap bombs to their kids.

Keep it up.  Don't care what you think.  What a rodent says, is of no value to anyone, let alone me.  Both of you.


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## Andylusion (Oct 10, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Androw said:
> ...



No the worms are still here, but no one gives a crap about them anymore.


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 11, 2014)

Androw said:


> No the worms are still here, but no one gives a crap about them anymore.


You don't really set the bar all that high, so you're no one to talk about how low others are.

I consider people who think nothing of firing shots at people fishing and farming, a lot lower than worms and rodents.


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 11, 2014)

montelatici said:


> The Nazis referred to the Jews as rodents too.  I see where you are coming from, you are a latter day Nazi, reveling in the murder of hundreds of Palestinian children by the Zionazis.  To you they are rodents anyway.  You are disgusting.


Hilarious drivel!


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## docmauser1 (Oct 11, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Yes, the Australians in Palistan have the same rights as other Australians.


Excellent! Then palistanians should move to Australia!


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 11, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> I consider people who think nothing of firing shots at people fishing and farming, a lot lower than worms and rodents.


"Fishing", "farming", the palistanian occupation does have many names!


----------



## montelatici (Oct 11, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, the Australians in Palistan have the same rights as other Australians.
> ...



The Palistanians already live in Palistan, NSW what are you on about?


----------



## montelatici (Oct 11, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > The Nazis referred to the Jews as rodents too.  I see where you are coming from, you are a latter day Nazi, reveling in the murder of hundreds of Palestinian children by the Zionazis.  To you they are rodents anyway.  You are disgusting.
> ...



Just fact bozo.


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## Andylusion (Oct 11, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Androw said:
> 
> 
> > No the worms are still here, but no one gives a crap about them anymore.
> ...



Yes, because I would die protecting my children, while you and those you defend strap bombs to your kids.   You have no credibility.  Thus, your accusations have no credibility, which is why none of us care what you think.  Have a nice day.


----------



## Andylusion (Oct 11, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



"Just fact" from the guy supporting people who strap bombs to their own kids.   What a joke.  You couldn't speak about facts, if someone slapped a bomb belt on your kid.


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 11, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

The was asked already; I refer you back to your Post #141.  It was answered in my Post #146.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici,  _et al,_
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

As previously explained, the fruit from an "inalienable right" does not expire --- an "inalienable right" is "_condiciones sine quibus non_;" that is --- you must exercise it before you reap the benefits.  And if the "right" is abandon or substituted for something else, it has no redeeming quality --- as it is incapable of being surrendered or transferred.  It is always there.

In the case of the contemporary Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP), the "right of self-determination" _(meaning sovereignty and independence)_ was abandon and/or rejected relative to several offerings prior to 1948, rejected in 1948, exercised in 1950 relative to the West Bank, and again exercised in 1988 relative to the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Elements of the HoAP _(like HAMAS and components of the Fedayeen)_ have steadfastly rejected the sole representative of the Palestinian People by claiming that the Arab Palestinian has the absolute right to all of the Territory, formerly under the Mandate _[less Jordan, excluding the two attempts (1970) by Fedayeen extremist elements to assassinate HM The King and perpetrating a series of spectacular hijackings that set the integrity and character of the HoAP regionally]_.  This claim still, documented in the 1968 Palestinian National Charter, the HAMAS Covenant, and the HAMAS Policy Paper or 2013, still has an after glow; in which the HoAP still articulates the demand over the territory and has chosen attainment through means other than negotiation in good faith.  The chosen path is to undermine the will of the General Assembly and to attain monetary rewards for the leadership _(thru graft and corruption)_.  In most recent times, the Government of the State of Palestine has substituted true sovereignty and independence with the continuation of armed struggle.

HAMAS POLICY POINT #5:  Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal [spheres]; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle.​
Most Respectfully,
R


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## Billo_Really (Oct 11, 2014)

Androw said:


> Yes, because I would die protecting my children, while you and those you defend strap bombs to your kids.   You have no credibility.  Thus, your accusations have no credibility, which is why none of us care what you think.  Have a nice day.


You can't protect anything, if you're un-willing to deal with reality on its own terms.  And making shit up about me, or trying to speak for others, is NOT dealing with reality.

Do you think it's okay to shoot people farming?  Yes or No?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 12, 2014)

RoccoR said:
			
		

> In the case of the contemporary Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP), the "right of self-determination" _(meaning sovereignty and independence)_ was abandon and/or rejected relative to several offerings prior to 1948,


When were the Palestinians offered:
The right to self determination without external interference.

The right to independence and sovereignty.

The right to territorial integrity.​
Prior to 1948, or ever?


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 12, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Relative to an "inalienable right" --- it is never "offered."  It is either "used" or "not used" --- "exercised" or "not exercised."  It is a right exclusive --- _"conditio sine qua non"_ --- "self determination without external interference" _(independence and sovereignty)_ can not have happened unless the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) exercise the right first.  



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

As America has experienced many times _(most recently in Afghanistan and Iraq)_, no one can hand any culture or people "independence and sovereignty" unless they are willing to make the effort to sustain it and maintain it.   The HoAP have never been able to establish independence _(the ability to stand alone)_ --- and --- sustain it and maintain it _(not for more than a thousand years)_.  At the rate they are progressing, we will not see that in my lifetime.

When were the Palestinians offered their "rights?"  Never!  They always had them --- never lost them.  They never developed to that point in their culture that they understood how to apply it; just as today - they do not understand the importance of the progressive development and codification of the principles of international law concerning friendly relations and co-operation among States.  And in their child-like frustration to apply them they morphed into the HoAP.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


Then what are they doing in palistan?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 12, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> Relative to an "inalienable right" --- it is never "offered."  It is either "used" or "not used" --- "exercised" or "not exercised."  It is a right exclusive --- _"conditio sine qua non"_ --- "self determination without external interference" _(independence and sovereignty)_ can not have happened unless the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) exercise the right first.
> 
> ...


People under occupation find it difficult to exercise their rights.

Unfortunately, Palestine was born under occupation and has been occupied ever since.


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


Doc's bozo's name's just drivel, not fact, of course.


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 12, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Do you think it's okay to shoot people farming?  Yes or No?


Depends on the "farming" activity, of course. If it's "planting" IEDs, it may get a "famer" all shot up!


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 12, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> People under occupation find it difficult to exercise their rights.


Well, palistanians should change their occupation, then!


P F Tinmore said:


> Unfortunately, Palestine was born under occupation and has been occupied ever since.


What a sorry occupation palistanians have to occupy themselves with!


----------



## MaryL (Oct 12, 2014)

3 thousand innocent Americans died on 9/11. Muslim terrorists  put on masks and slice off heads. Muslim extremists hide in civilian neighborhoods like the cynical coward psychopaths they are. They launch rockets into Israel like  cowardly  vandals and run and hide among their wives, children and friends. Pathetic losers.  And then the inevitable happens, innocent people get killed, Muslims use that for propaganda. Cry me a river. none of this woe and misery would happen if Muslims would ferret out their own bad actors and...and end this mess.


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 12, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Not "when" ---- but "how many times?"



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...


*(OBSERVATION)*



			
				The First Attempt to Create Self-Governing Institutions said:
			
		

> 22. Later in 1923,* a third attempt* was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government. The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that *“the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”*. The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.
> 
> 
> “The British Government desired to establish a self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage. The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority. If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on more democratic lines.”
> *SOURCE: *A/AC.14/8  2 October 1947


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinian shot themselves in the foot several times.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 12, 2014)

RoccoR said:
			
		

> 22. Later in 1923,* a third attempt* was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government. The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”.



That would legitimize the foreign Jewish Agency.

The Palestinians were not going to play that game.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 12, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Not "when" ---- but "how many times?"
> 
> ...


Nice duck of the question:

When were the Palestinians offered:
The right to self determination without external interference.

The right to independence and sovereignty.

The right to territorial integrity.

Prior to 1948, or ever?


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 12, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> ... The Arab Palestinian shot themselves in the foot several times. ...


I strongly suspect it was another part of their anatomy.


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 12, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


An instance, when their "palistanian" "right" was not exercised by a self-shot in a part of their anatomy, other than the foot.


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 12, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  et al,
> ...


But our honorable P F Tinmore claimed that, arabs did have those "inalienable" rights! Those Schrödinger's palistanians, having rights and not having them altogether, genocided and not genocided, etc., existing in some zombie state!


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 12, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  et al,

You can't win if you don't play.  _(The axiom of a Lottery or any Sport.)_



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

The Jewish Agency was legitimized no matter what the position the Arabs might have taken.  It was a prerequisite behind the decisions made by the Allied Powers in San Remo; and the establishment of the Jewish National Home.  From a political standpoint, the Jewish People were overjoyed by the decision of the Arabs not to exercise a voice through a counterpart Agency. 

Remembering that the Arab Voice could have altered the outcomes in many of the disputes.

A/AC.14/8  2 October 1947  18. Replying to these observations, the Colonial Officer pointed out that paragraph 4 of Article 22 of the League Covenant had been interpreted by the Principal Allied Powers in the unratified Treaty of Sevres, where Syria and Iraq, *but not Palestine*, were explicitly said to have been “provisionally recognised” as independent States.

“There is no question,” the Colonial Officer continued, “of treating the people of Palestine as less advanced than their neighbours in Iraq and Syria; the position is that His Majesty’s Government are bound by a pledge which is antecedent to the Covenant of the League of Nations, and they cannot allow a constitutional position to develop in a country for which they have accepted responsibility to the Principal Allied Powers, which may make it impracticable to carry into effect a solemn undertaking given by themselves and their Allies…..If your Delegation really represents the present attitude of the majority of the Arab population of Palestine, and Mr. Churchill (then Colonial Secretary) Has no grounds for suggesting that this is not the case, it is quite clear that the creation at this stage of a national government would preclude the fulfilment of the pledge made by the British government to the Jewish people. It follows that the principal Allied Powers, concerned as they were to ensure the fulfilment of a policy adopted before the Covenant was drafted, were ell advised in applying to Palestine a somewhat different interpretation of Paragraph 4 of Article 22 of the covenant than was applied to the neighbouring countries of Iraq and Syria.”​19. This passage in the letter of the colonial Office was characterised by the Arab Delegation as

“the strongest proof that the Jewish National Home undertaking is the cause of depriving us of our natural right of establishing an independent government the same as Mesopotamia and the Hedjaz.”​They also concluded from it that

“self-government will be granted as soon as the Jewish people in Palestine are sufficiently able through numbers and powers to benefit to the full by self-government, and not before.”​
And that is an essential understanding of the time.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 12, 2014)

How would that work in reality as the arab muslims will refuse to be anyones equal as it is commanded by their god that they will be superior to everyone else in the world


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 12, 2014)

RoccoR said:
			
		

> A/AC.14/8 2 October 1947 18. Replying to these observations, the Colonial Officer pointed out that paragraph 4 of Article 22 of the League Covenant had been interpreted by the Principal Allied Powers in the *unratified Treaty of Sevres,* where Syria and Iraq, *but not Palestine*, were explicitly said to have been “provisionally recognised” as independent States.


That part was removed when it was rewritten as the Treaty of Lausanne which was ratified. That removal affirms that Palestine was provisionally recognized as an independent state.
-------------------
*Article 22*

To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which *are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves *under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, *there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilisation*...
-----------------------
The way the mandate went down was clearly a violation of the LoN Covenant and the rights of the Palestinians.


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...





 While the Palestinian Christians are being ethnically cleansed from Palestine and being treated as 4th class citizens


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 12, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

This is not accurate and certainly not true.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

The interpretation, whether ratified or not, was none the less --- that of the Allied Powers --- who also wrote the Treaty of  Lausanne, which does not mention Palestine at all.  Palestine was never singled-out by the Allied Powers.  Remember, all these interpretations were on events that happened in the early 1920's.  The recounting happened in the late 1940's; after all the interpretations were ironed-out.

In any event, it doesn't change the fact that the Arab Palestinian declined to participate in the Arab Agency as an advisory element on the administration of the territory under mandate.

Lastly, there were no violations of the LoN Covenant and the rights of the Palestinians were not violated.  The same authorities that wrote the Mandate also wrote the Covenant.  The Arab Palestinians simply did not comply with the acceptable processes leading to independence.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 12, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> This is not accurate and certainly not true.
> 
> ...


There was no special processes required. They were the natives inside a defined territory. They already had the right to independence. And they still do.


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 12, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Sovereignty and Independence is simply not as easy to declare as the Arab Palestinian or you think.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

Well, there certainly are process that need to be coordinated and debts to assume, and civil services to be established, and a hundred other functions that were transferred from the Ottoman to the Mandatory --- and then --- presumably to the successor government.  Unlike the simplicity you present here, there is a lot more to becoming a nation then just waking-up one morning and saying:  We are a new nation.  Yes, there are processes required, just as there were when the Mandatory assumed governmental authority.  And it is all these other functions of Government that are needed that make, even unto today, the Arab Palestinians unable to stand alone.  Every year, like the beggars on the street corner, the Palestinians need help organizing a "Donor's Conference;" for which it is totally dependent.

The "defined territory" is a territory capture, defined and administered from the Ottoman Empire and surrendered to the Allied Power, not the indigenous population.  

The League of Nations recognized the "right" of the Arab, but also observed that the Arab in the Palestine under Mandate was not capable of establishing a self government.

The right of the Arab Palestinian - today - does not exists were it conflicts with the right of the Israeli - today.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hossfly (Oct 12, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


The Palestinians remind me of a guy who loses his ass in a poker game and then demands his money back.


----------



## aris2chat (Oct 12, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> Sovereignty and Independence is simply not as easy to declare as the Arab Palestinian or you think.
> 
> ...



Some posters talk about rights like the Ottoman or arab world was a democracy.  Women, children and servants were property and did not have individual rights except what the dominant male of the family gave them.
Rights in the muslim world were not automatic, equal and certainly not universal to all.
Rights as we talk about them are given by the state, each country has their own variation.  What we call the universal human rights is a wish list made by the UN, but not all people in all lands have those rights.
Slavery was still legal in the arab world till 1965, and in some areas is still common place despite any laws prohibiting.  Indenture and child apprenticeship are also used as forms of slavery to this day.  Such people are given very little if any rights or consideration.
Just people cause a people happen to live does not mean they have rights.  Rights have to be recognized and protected under law, laws made by men.  Even so called god's laws mean nothing unless men are willing to grant them.  Life in the middle east and muslim world have little meaning as we see everyday in the news.
Talk of palestinian rights mean nothing in most host countries.  Even in the PA, rights in the WB and G are quite different, determined when convenient by the political powers.  Rights are not equal or guaranteed by any means, past or present.
Rights to vote, work, travel, free speech, even to live are strictly limited in that part of the world.
Palestinians have no more right to land or a state than any other racial or religious group throughout the muslim or third world is given, less so than kurds, armeneans etc.
Women and children deserve more rights than palestinians.  When the palestinians recognize Israel and give up the war rhetoric and charter, then they will be deserving of building a state.
ISIS might control land in syria and iraq but the world is not ready to recognize their rights to a state.  The world did not recognize the taliban when they controlled Afghanistan. 
When palestinians are ready, their rights will be recognized and become law.  If they act like animals towards even their own, they deserve no consideration by the world as capable of separate rights as a people or state.


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## montelatici (Oct 12, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...



Palestinian Christians are being ethnically cleansed and murdered by your Jew brethren.

"PITTSBURGH

Palestinian Christians are under attack in Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories. 

Israeli settlers have been vandalizing Palestinian churches, monasteries, cemeteries, and other Christian institutions and property in alarming numbers over the past three years.  

These crimes are thought to be part of the larger “price-tag” movement, a campaign started by Israeli settlers in 2011 both to intimidate Palestinians into leaving their land and to establish a punitive “price” Palestinians must pay for perceived setbacks to the security and geographic expansion of the Jewish state.

"Price tag" attacks are not aimed exclusively at Christian Palestinians.  Secular and Muslim Palestinians are regularly victimized by the price tag attacks as well.  But many attacks have, indeed, targeted Christian institutions."

A Palestinian monastery near Jerusalem, for example, was firebombed and vandalized on Aug. 19. The walls of the Beit Jamal monastery, which is inhabited by the Sisters of Bethlehem order, were defaced with Stars of David and the words “price tag,” “death to Gentiles” and “revenge” written in Hebrew. "

Presbyterian Church U.S.A. - News Announcements - Palestinian Christians under attack


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## montelatici (Oct 12, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...



Hasbara propaganda, no one believes it anymore.  Why should any people recognize the theft of their land and their expulsion?


----------



## Hossfly (Oct 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


If you would speak to some Presbyterians here in the U.S., they would tell you that they have gotten disgusted with their church leaders because of their stand on Israel and that their leaders are closing their eyes to all the Christians being murdered by Muslims around the world to just concentrate on Israel.  Meanwhile, I think I will go along with this Priest who lives in Israel.

Christian Priest to UN Stop the Witch Hunt Against Israel - Israel Today Israel News


----------



## Challenger (Oct 13, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



So that's a resounding NO then, you have no evidence for your assertion. Thanks.


----------



## Challenger (Oct 13, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Challenger,  _et al,_
> 
> I looked at the video several times.  I don't see an "attack."
> 
> ...



The Notice to Mariners states that the Gaza Maritime Area extends 20Nm from the coast. If the Palestinian fishermen were within that area the Zionist JSIL navy has no right or reason to open fire on the boats. They could achieve the same effect, i.e. interdiction, using a loud hailer, or other form of signaling. They could order the boat to heave to and be boarded. They would only be "entitled" to fire warning shots if these measures failed. There is no evidence from that film clip of any attempt to communicate other than by opening fire.


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 13, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Palestinian Christians are being ethnically cleansed and murdered by your Jew brethren.


Hashish drivel.


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 13, 2014)

Challenger said:


> The Notice to Mariners states that the Gaza Maritime Area extends 20Nm from the coast. If the Palestinian fishermen were within that area the Zionist JSIL navy has no right or reason to open fire on the boats. They could achieve the same effect, i.e. interdiction, using a loud hailer, or other form of signaling. They could order the boat to heave to and be boarded. They would only be "entitled" to fire warning shots if these measures failed. There is no evidence from that film clip of any attempt to communicate other than by opening fire.


Which is clear evidence that, a creative video-editing took place, of course. What's the arabic for agitprop?


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 13, 2014)

Challenger,  _et al,_

You can raise those points, but the evidence does not support it.



Challenger said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger,  _et al,_
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

The Notice to Mariners NO. 1/2009 Blockade of Gaza Strip is not based on a 20Nm standard.  It is based on a geo-coordinate enclosure; as are all blockades established under the San Remo Manual. 

*NO. 1/2009 Blockade of Gaza Strip  *Created: 06 January 2009​

Subject: Blockade of Gaza Strip
Source :  Israeli Navy

All mariners are advised that as of 03 January 2009, 1700 UTC, Gaza maritime area is closed to all maritime trafic and is under blockade imposed by Israeli Navy until further notice.
Maritime Gaza area is enclosed by the following coordinates:

31 35.71  N  34 29.46  E
31 46.80  N  34 10.01  E
31 19.39  N  34 13.11  E
31 33.73  N  33 56.68  E​
Based on the clip, there is no evidence to the exact location other than the staged film crew shouting that they are in "International Waters."  There is no evidence that the IDF/Israeli Navy Patrol did NOT attempt radio contact or other forms of communication.  The absence of evidence in the presentation does not mean that it did not happen.  

Warning shots, since the time before radio, have been used as a legitimate signal.

During the 18th Century, a warning shot (in nautical terms, often called a *shot across the bow*) could be fired towards any ship whose "colours" (nationality) had to be ascertained. According to the law of the sea, a ship thus hailed had to fly her flag and confirm it with a gunshot. Warning shots may still be used in modern times to signal a vessel to stop or keep off and may be fired from other ships, boats, or aircraft. ​The video neither proves or disproves anything.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 13, 2014)

A blockade  is an act of war.


----------



## Hossfly (Oct 13, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> A blockade  is an act of war.


----------



## aris2chat (Oct 13, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> A blockade  is an act of war.



We play this game every month or so.........
>>International law Professor Ed Morgan of the University of Toronto, likewise, noting that it is clear that Israel and Hamas are in a state of armed conflict, which has been noted by the General Assembly to the Human Rights Council in its Goldstone Report, wrote that a blockade of an enemy’s coast is an established military tactic. He pointed out that it is recognized as a means at the Security Council’s disposal under Article 42 of the UN Charter, and is similarly set forth in Article 539 of the Canadian Forces manual Counter-Insurgency Operations.<<


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 13, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > A blockade  is an act of war.


Israel used it as an excuse to start the 1967 war.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 13, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > A blockade  is an act of war.
> ...


It is still an act of war no matter how much shit you try to shovel on it.


----------



## aris2chat (Oct 13, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



 Egypt closed the suez, international water way, to the jews, which was illegal.

the gaza blockade is legal.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 13, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


To Israel and its toadies.

It is still an act of war.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 13, 2014)

U.N. experts say Israel s blockade of Gaza illegal Reuters


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## aris2chat (Oct 13, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



you keep blabbing the same mantra but refuse to listen to the facts.
The UN has said the blockade of gaza is legal.


----------



## toastman (Oct 13, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



Straits of Tiran, not Suez Canal


----------



## aris2chat (Oct 13, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> U.N. experts say Israel s blockade of Gaza illegal Reuters



BBC News - Gaza ship raid excessive but blockade legal says UN


----------



## toastman (Oct 13, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



"but refuse to listen to facts"

Yup, that's Tinmore !


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## RoccoR (Oct 13, 2014)

P F Tinmore, _et al,_

"The naval blockade was established for a clear military necessity - to prevent the military strengthening of HAMAS by stopping the entry of terrorist elements and the smuggling of weapons into the Gaza strip."



P F Tinmore said:


> A blockade  is an act of war.


*(COMMENT)*

The Blockade was established to prevent vessels of all nations, from entering or exiting specified ports or coastal areas belonging to,  or under the control of designated terrorist or a nation supporting terrorism, to interdict the flow of contraband goods, and was intended to prevent vessels, regardless of their cargo, from crossing an established and published and publicized cordon separating the terrorist activities from international waters.

It is not "an act of war;" but a response to an "act of war."  The State of Israel "has been engaged in an ongoing armed conflict with terrorist organizations operating in the Gaza strip. This armed conflict has intensified after HAMAS began launching pads of mortar and rocket attacks against Israeli towns and villages in southern Israel.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 13, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > U.N. experts say Israel s blockade of Gaza illegal Reuters
> ...


That is the debunked Palmer Report. It was not to rule on the legality. They just put that in as a political move.

The real report says that the blockade is illegal.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 13, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> "The naval blockade was established for a clear military necessity - to prevent the military strengthening of HAMAS by stopping the entry of terrorist elements and the smuggling of weapons into the Gaza strip."
> 
> ...


Are you still pimping that terrorist propaganda crap?


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 13, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Question?



P F Tinmore said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


*(COMMENT)
*
Where is this "real" report????

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 13, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

What do you present as your evidence?



P F Tinmore said:


> Are you still pimping that terrorist propaganda crap?


*(QUESTION)*

Where is your evidence that HAMAS is not a terrorist organization?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 13, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> What do you present as your evidence?
> 
> ...


Other than some third grade name calling, what evidence do you have that it is?


----------



## toastman (Oct 13, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...



What an incredibly stupid question.

BTW, all those countries that list Hamas as a terrorist organization, is that propaganda too ?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 13, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


Deflection.


----------



## toastman (Oct 13, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...


Calling a terrorist group what they are is not third grade name calling


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 13, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> you keep blabbing the same mantra but refuse to listen to the facts.
> The UN has said the blockade of gaza is legal.


Will you stop pushing that lame ass Palmer Report?  It is the only UN report that said the blockade was legal and it wasn't even commissioned to make that determination.  I've already explained the problems with that report in detail, why do you keep pushing this bullshit?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 13, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


Deflection.


----------



## Hossfly (Oct 13, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > you keep blabbing the same mantra but refuse to listen to the facts.
> ...


Has the blockade been lifted or is the namby pamby UN too cowardly to pursue the matter? That is if the blockade is illegal. Why don't you blow the whistle on Israel?


----------



## toastman (Oct 13, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


How is it a deflection if I responded directly to your comment


----------



## montelatici (Oct 13, 2014)

Whether legal or not, blockades are acts of war.  The UNSC is controlled by Israel through the U.S., useless when it comes to stopping Israel's malfeasance.  Just a fact.


----------



## toastman (Oct 13, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Whether legal or not, blockades are acts of war.  The UNSC is controlled by Israel through the U.S., useless when it comes to stopping Israel's malfeasance.  Just a fact.


The blockade is not going to be lifted until Hamas is gone. Why should Israel allow Hamas to stock up on weapons to attack its civilians?


----------



## Hossfly (Oct 13, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Whether legal or not, blockades are acts of war.  The UNSC is controlled by Israel through the U.S., useless when it comes to stopping Israel's malfeasance.  Just a fact.


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 13, 2014)

montelatici,  et al,

Wrong.



montelatici said:


> Whether legal or not, blockades are acts of war.  The UNSC is controlled by Israel through the U.S., useless when it comes to stopping Israel's malfeasance.  Just a fact.


*(COMMENT)*

It is a response to an "act of war" by the Hostile Arab Palestinian.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici (Oct 13, 2014)

The Palestinians are responding to the invasion (act of war) by the European Jews. The Palestinians are no more hostile than the Native Americans were.  Only, they seem a little more resilient than the Native Americans.


----------



## ChrisL (Oct 13, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Earlier there was a report of Israel shooting at Palestinian fisherman. Now there is another Israeli attack in spite of a cease fire.
> ...



I agree.  I think the IDF has it's hands full dealing with REAL terrorists, and they are not wasting their time or ammunition or their reputations, freedom, etc., on "murdering" farmers.


----------



## ChrisL (Oct 13, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Radio Havana? WTF kind of bogus source is that??
> ...



YouTube videos are NOT evidence.  They can be edited, doctored, whatever.  You terrorist supporters really love your YouTube "sources."  Lol.


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 13, 2014)

toastman said:


> The blockade is not going to be lifted until Hamas is gone.


Israel has no right trying to tell the Palestinian's who they can (and cannot) have as their leaders. 



toastman said:


> Why should Israel allow Hamas to stock up on weapons to attack its civilians?


Are you saying Hamas doesn't have a right to defend itself?

Maybe if Israel stopped shooting Palestinian fishermen and farmers, their citizens wouldn't get attacked?


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 13, 2014)

ChrisL said:


> YouTube videos are NOT evidence.


How convenient.



ChrisL said:


> They can be edited, doctored, whatever.  You terrorist supporters really love your YouTube "sources."  Lol.


Prove it's an edited video.


----------



## ChrisL (Oct 13, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > YouTube videos are NOT evidence.  They can be edited, doctored, whatever.  You terrorist supporters really love your YouTube "sources."  Lol.
> ...



I don't have to prove anything.  The fact is that it COULD be.  That is why it is not valid as "evidence."


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 13, 2014)

ChrisL said:


> I don't have to prove anything.  The fact is that it COULD be.  That is why it is not valid as "evidence."


You have to prove your objection has merit.  You need to show evidence that indicates the video is doctored.  If you tried to pull this shit off in a court of law, the judge would throw it out.

And you're full of shit!  Video's are the best evidence you could show.  The only reason you say they're not, is because you have no valid argument to prove the video wrong.


----------



## ChrisL (Oct 13, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > I don't have to prove anything.  The fact is that it COULD be.  That is why it is not valid as "evidence."
> ...



No, they are not the best evidence.  Anyone can post anything on YouTube.  Didn't you know that?


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 13, 2014)

ChrisL said:


> No, they are not the best evidence.  Anyone can post anything on YouTube.  Didn't you know that?


That's just a bullshit innuendo.  It doesn't prove the video is wrong in any way.


----------



## toastman (Oct 13, 2014)

montelatici said:


> The Palestinians are responding to the invasion (act of war) by the European Jews. The Palestinians are no more hostile than the Native Americans were.  Only, they seem a little more resilient than the Native Americans.


An invasion is a military offensive, as I have proved many times with links. European Jews immigrating to Mandatory Palestine by invitation from the British is just that, an immigration. An invasion is exactly what the 5 Arab armies did in 1948 when they invaded Palestine.  

It says a lot about you when you need to repeat the same lie over and over after it has been proven wrong so many times


----------



## toastman (Oct 13, 2014)

montelatici said:


> The Palestinians are responding to the invasion (act of war) by the European Jews. The Palestinians are no more hostile than the Native Americans were.  Only, they seem a little more resilient than the Native Americans.



I don't recall the Native Americans strapping bombs to themselves and b


montelatici said:


> The Palestinians are responding to the invasion (act of war) by the European Jews. The Palestinians are no more hostile than the Native Americans were.  Only, they seem a little more resilient than the Native Americans.



Really? I don't recall hearing about Native Americans doing hundreds of suicide bombings? Or slitting the throats of babies in their sleep. Or launching rockets. 
The Palestinian are EXTREMELY hostile. What a stupid comment


----------



## toastman (Oct 13, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > No, they are not the best evidence.  Anyone can post anything on YouTube.  Didn't you know that?
> ...



Which youtube videos are you guys talking about ?


----------



## ChrisL (Oct 13, 2014)

toastman said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



Post #16.


----------



## aris2chat (Oct 13, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Whether legal or not, blockades are acts of war.  The UNSC is controlled by Israel through the U.S., useless when it comes to stopping Israel's malfeasance.  Just a fact.



the war was of hamas' making.  A navel blockade was a defensive move to limit the flow of weapons, rockets, that can be fired on Israel
when rockets are not fired at Israel it saves palestinian lives.


----------



## toastman (Oct 13, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Radio Havana? WTF kind of bogus source is that??
> ...



What a bullshit propaganda v


----------



## toastman (Oct 13, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Radio Havana? WTF kind of bogus source is that??
> ...


What a bullshit propaganda video.

Why are those Palestinians lying on the ground pretending to be dead? Oh, and the shots were CLEARLY coming from next to the camera you idiot. Nowhere in the video do you see the soldiers shooting BTW. They are hudled together. This whole video was staged, and your dumbass fell for it


----------



## Challenger (Oct 14, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > A blockade  is an act of war.



So whe Egypt blockaded the straits of Tiran in 1956 and 1967 this was *not *an act of war. Fair enough Zionist JSIL is guilty of waging agressive war in both 1956 and 1967 Planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression; war crime.


----------



## Challenger (Oct 14, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Challenger,  _et al,_
> 
> You can raise those points, but the evidence does not support it.
> 
> ...



Yes, if you look at those coordinates on a map, they comprise a rectangle extending 20nm from the coast of the Gaza Strip. The fishing boats can legitimately state they are in international waters if they are further than 12nm away from their coast, this distance being classed as territorial waters under UNCLOS III

Furthermore, you may not have noticed, but  we are not in the 18th century any more. Even in those days a shot fired across another shop's bow was used only if the ship was too far away to hail or had ignored hoisted signal flag messages, for example:
Signal flags hoisted denoting letters:
M+N= "Stop instantly - disobey at your peril"
I+D= "Heave to or I will fire into you".
This method of communication has been around since the late 17th century and as of 1901 are still used today in a standard format recognisable by any seafarer, the International Code of Signals.

One burst can be construed as a warning shot, multiple bursts, not so much; regardless of circumstances.

I agree this video on it's own *proves* nothing, other than perhaps the Zionist navy wasn't expecting to be filmed at the time. Given that Palestinian fishermen have been killed by the Zionist Navy in the past, this film provides some evidence that Zionist JSIL's navy is at the very least, too trigger-happy when engaging in blockade work.


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 14, 2014)

toastman said:


> What a bullshit propaganda video.
> 
> Why are those Palestinians lying on the ground pretending to be dead?


Because they're being shot at.  That's what normal people do when shots are fired, they hit the deck.  And they're not playing dead.  That's just your "vision issues" cropping up again.



toastman said:


> Oh, and the shots were CLEARLY coming from next to the camera you idiot.


That's just bullshit conjecture on your part.



toastman said:


> Nowhere in the video do you see the soldiers shooting BTW. They are hudled together. This whole video was staged, and your dumbass fell for it


You saw them shooting at Palestinian fishermen, why wouldn't they shoot at Palestinian farmers?  Your logic is horseshit!


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 14, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> the war was of hamas' making.  A navel blockade was a defensive move to limit the flow of weapons, rockets, that can be fired on Israel
> when rockets are not fired at Israel it saves palestinian lives.


Wrong!  The blockade started because Israel didn't like the results of the Gazan elections.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 14, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > the war was of hamas' making.  A navel blockade was a defensive move to limit the flow of weapons, rockets, that can be fired on Israel
> ...


And the Palestinians like the assholes that the Israelis elect.


----------



## toastman (Oct 14, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > What a bullshit propaganda video.
> ...



Look at the people lying down. They are playing dead for the camera. The whole thing was a setup. Listen again when the shots are fired , they are clearly coming from next to the camera. 
You've been fooled you brainwashed sheep. Behehehehehe


----------



## toastman (Oct 14, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



The ones the Palestinians elected are listed as terrorists by many countries.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 14, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...


They aren't terrorists in Palestine where they were elected. Foreign name calling did not figure into the elections.


----------



## aris2chat (Oct 14, 2014)

Challenger said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



56 suez
67 straits


----------



## aris2chat (Oct 14, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > the war was of hamas' making.  A navel blockade was a defensive move to limit the flow of weapons, rockets, that can be fired on Israel
> ...



after the violent battle between Fatah and Hamas, not the election


----------



## High_Gravity (Oct 14, 2014)

Islamists are always innocent, according to Pakistan Usama Bin Laden was an innocent gardener when he was killed by US Forces.


----------



## Challenger (Oct 14, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



What?


----------



## toastman (Oct 14, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



It's not name calling. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. If it was just one country , then ok. 

The U.S, Canada, Australia, Japan, U.K and the EU. Hamas is also banned in Jordan and Egypt.


----------



## toastman (Oct 14, 2014)

Challenger said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...


In 1956 they closed the Suez Canal
In 1967 they closed the Straits of Tiran.

Both moves were unprovoked. There is no comparison to the Gaza blockade.


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 14, 2014)

toastman said:


> It's not name calling. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. If it was just one country , then ok.
> 
> The U.S, Canada, Australia, Japan, U.K and the EU. Hamas is also banned in Jordan and Egypt.


The Israeli  government is just as much a terrorist organization as Hamas.  The Likud Party's roots are in Irgun.  And Irgun was a terrorist organization.


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 14, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> after the violent battle between Fatah and Hamas, not the election


No, it was the election, because Hamas refused to be Israel's bitch, like Fatah did.


----------



## toastman (Oct 14, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > It's not name calling. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. If it was just one country , then ok.
> ...


Ya, right 

Great rebuttal brainwashed sheep


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 14, 2014)

toastman said:


> Look at the people lying down. They are playing dead for the camera. The whole thing was a setup. Listen again when the shots are fired , they are clearly coming from next to the camera.
> You've been fooled you brainwashed sheep. Behehehehehe


Of coarse they're going to lie down.  They're being shot at.  Who do you think they are?  Anwar Sadat?  You'd be lying down to if you were being shot at.

You have completely lost your moral compass.  In a thread about the Israeli army opening fire on Palestinian farmers, you question a video showing the Israeli army shooting at Palestinian farmers.

Here's another one, scumbag!


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 14, 2014)

toastman said:


> Ya, right
> 
> Great rebuttal brainwashed sheep


That has nothing to do with being brainwashed, that's the truth.

The pro-Israeli crowd are the most abusive posters in this forum.


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 14, 2014)

Billo_Really, _et al,_

Very much on par with disinformation.



Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > It's not name calling. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. If it was just one country , then ok.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

The Likud Party _(founded in 1973 by Menachem Begin --- 6th Prime Minister of the State of Israel and recipient of the 1978 Nobel Peace Prize)_ is generally considered a right-wing political party in Israel. 

The Irgun, unaligned with any political party, was designated a terrorist organization by Britain, the 1946 Zionist Congress, and the Jewish Agency.  The Irgun was dissolved and absorbed into the Israeli Defense Force on 1 June 1948.  While it is true that Menachem Begin was a terrorist fugitive for nearly a decade, time and changes does seem to heal all wounds - an evolutionary process.

Other than the fact that some members of the Likud Party were former members of the Irgun _(Menachem Begin being the most prominent)_, there is no direct connection between the Irgun _(dissolved in 1948)_ and the Likud Party _(founded in 1973)_ separated by a quarter century.  One first was a paramilitary terrorist organization and the second being _(not the most prominent but)_ a respected political party. 

But in politics, all things are subjective to a degree.  The association of the two separate and distinct activities is merely analysis ladened with a hidden agenda. 



Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > after the violent battle between Fatah and Hamas, not the election
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

There is little question that much of the Western World clearly did not understand why the Arab Palestinian people might vote for a known terrorist organization for its leadership.  Conversely, the Arab Palestinian clearly did not understand the consequences of accepting and supporting a terrorist organization.

In any event, the Palestinian Leadership --- no matter where you choose to start the timeline, has not advanced the cause of the Palestinians in a way that promotes economic development, entrepreneurship opportunities, and industrial and commercial factors.  The Palestinian Leadership, for the last quarter century, has failed to achieve its political agenda _(whether right or wrong)_ that has set the geo-political conditions for a declining financial system and political system that makes it impossible to stand any where close to its own.  One of those set conditions is the support to HAMAS and its associated terrorist affiliations.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ChrisL (Oct 14, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Billo_Really, _et al,_
> 
> Very much on par with disinformation.
> 
> ...



That is a great post that makes so much sense, Mr. RoccoR.


----------



## aris2chat (Oct 15, 2014)

toastman said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



 even with a detailed timeline he still would not get it


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 15, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> The Likud Party _(founded in 1973 by Menachem Begin --- 6th Prime Minister of the State of Israel and recipient of the 1978 Nobel Peace Prize)_ is generally considered a right-wing political party in Israel.
> 
> The Irgun, unaligned with any political party, was designated a terrorist organization by Britain, the 1946 Zionist Congress, and the Jewish Agency.  The Irgun was dissolved and absorbed into the Israeli Defense Force on 1 June 1948.  While it is true that Menachem Begin was a terrorist fugitive for nearly a decade, time and changes does seem to heal all wounds - an evolutionary process.


Unless you're Hamas.  Then people keep throwing 30 year old quotes in front of your face and completely disregarding more recent statements.



RoccoR said:


> Other than the fact that some members of the Likud Party were former members of the Irgun _(Menachem Begin being the most prominent)_, there is no direct connection between the Irgun _(dissolved in 1948)_ and the Likud Party _ .._.


Other than the fact that some members of the Likud Party were former members of Irgun.  Oh no, no direct connection there.  Not to mention, one of the biggest terrorists in Irgun, became the Israeli PM.



RoccoR said:


> But in politics, all things are subjective to a degree.  The association of the two separate and distinct activities is merely analysis ladened with a hidden agenda.


They're not separate and distinct.  The terrorism Irgun did years ago, Israel is still doing today.



RoccoR said:


> There is little question that much of the Western World clearly did not understand why the Arab Palestinian people might vote for a known terrorist organization for its leadership.


Why did Israeli's vote for Ben Gurion and Menachem Begin?  Same thing. 



RoccoR said:


> Conversely, the Arab Palestinian clearly did not understand the consequences of accepting and supporting a terrorist organization.


I guess _"time and changes"_ do not heal all wounds.



RoccoR said:


> In any event, the Palestinian Leadership --- no matter where you choose to start the timeline, has not advanced the cause of the Palestinians in a way that promotes economic development, entrepreneurship opportunities, and industrial and commercial factors.  The Palestinian Leadership, for the last quarter century, has failed to achieve its political agenda _(whether right or wrong)_ that has set the geo-political conditions for a declining financial system and political system that makes it impossible to stand any where close to its own.


That's because the occupation and blockade makes it impossible to have any kind of viable economy that can grow.  How can you possibly have an economy when your movements are restricted, imports and exports are routinely frozen and your infrastructure is constantly being bombed by the assholes next door?



RoccoR said:


> One of those set conditions is the support to HAMAS and its associated terrorist affiliations.


What does street improvements have to do with terrorism?  Because Hamas does that too.  They put in street lights and the IDF comes along a little later and shoots out the lamps at the top. In that situation, which one committed the terrorist act?

The problem is not Hamas, it's Israel.  They need to end the occupation and blockade; then shut their fucking mouths on Iran.


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 15, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> even with a detailed timeline he still would not get it


There's a lot of things you don't get, either; much like a neutered dog.


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 15, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...





 At the time the LoN knew beyond reasonable doubt that the majority were recent illegal immigrants and as such were not the natives. The natives stayed in 1948 when the arab league attacked and tried to destroy Israel, the illegal migrants ran for the hills and waited for the defeat so they could go back and take the Jews property.


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 15, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...







 BILLO


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 15, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...





 Have you read what the members of the PCUSA are saying and doing, seems that they disagree with the ANTI SEMITES that are in charge and many Presbyterian churches are leaving the group.

Anti-semitism and the shame of the PCUSA WashingtonExaminer.com

Now the PCUSA, as its members call it, has taken an official position against Israel and so I, as an elder in the PCUSA -- no longer a "ruling" elder in my congregation, having wrapped up my second such stint last year -- have to take a position for or against the PCUSA based on it.

 Many PCUSA congregations across the country are already engaged in the process of "discerning" whether to remain within the splintering denomination, and this new assault on Israel and the virulent language employed — "occupation" — will no doubt make that process much easier for hundreds of thousands of us. If their congregations don't leave, they will. They will not be part of the American intifada against Israel.

I posted a link to the "open letter" on Twitter and asked for reactions.
From Robert Kraychik: "I think I'll just keep siding with God's Chosen People over the people chosen by a bunch of whiny leftists."
Sherri Wells noted that "someone needs to tell the PCUSA it's the Palestinians that don't want a two state solution."
"Give the PCUSA a break," Gary Jacobsen urged. "SOMEBODY had to get the speck out of Israel's eye."
Noah Pollak picked up on the Ark-sized duplicity of the letter. "After sucker-punching Israel," Noah noted, "they ask US Jewish community to 'remain open' to them as if nothing happened."
"An antisemitic move like boycotting Israel does not make them a partner," tweeted Jeff Dunetz. "This Jew prayed on Shabbos they stop being morons."
"But it's a nuanced antisemitism ..." added Eric Hardie.


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 15, 2014)

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...





 HEY Mohamed it is in the same place as your alleged "source documents" are kept, the UN archives. So are you saying that your documents are now ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA and no one believes them anymore.


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 15, 2014)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...





 Read my reply again and you will see that they are deliberately inciting a reaction because they have cameras onboard. This is a common Palestinian propaganda trick that fails everytime due to rubbish editing and actual footage not matching the soundtrack. So leaving the proscribed zone to incite a reaction can be seen as an act of terrorism in the eyes of the ICJ  if it is done to manipulate the views of others. remember the UN charter demands that no nation use propaganda as a weapon of war or terrorism. Palestine is doing so repeatedly


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 15, 2014)

Challenger said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger,  _et al,_
> ...






 Edited out if you bother to look, the footage is disjointed and does not flow. There is no continuity as such and you see the same scene twice in many cases. I heard the command to turn around and the Palestinians refused, so the warning shots in the water were legal as they did not injure any of the fishermen.


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 15, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> A blockade  is an act of war.





 Says who and how about some evidence to support your claim from the UN n full as well.


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 15, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > The Likud Party _(founded in 1973 by Menachem Begin --- 6th Prime Minister of the State of Israel and recipient of the 1978 Nobel Peace Prize)_ is generally considered a right-wing political party in Israel.
> ...






 I will only say this    Nelson Mandella was a convicted terrorist with the blood of thousands of black South Africans on his hands. And the killing in his name and memory is still going on today.

 So why are you singling out Israel for special treatment unless you are consumed by RACISM, ANTI SEMITISM and JEW HATRED


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 15, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Ya, right  Great rebuttal brainwashed sheep
> ...


Does it have anything to with being brainspinned?


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 15, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> That's because the occupation and blockade makes it impossible to have any kind of viable economy that can grow.  How can you possibly have an economy when your movements are restricted, imports and exports are routinely frozen and your infrastructure is constantly being bombed by the assholes next door?


Do palistanians put the cart before the donkey, too?


----------



## aris2chat (Oct 15, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > even with a detailed timeline he still would not get it
> ...



were you cut, crushed, banded or bitten?  You speak from experience.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 15, 2014)

RoccoR said:
			
		

> There is little question that much of the Western World clearly did not understand why the Arab Palestinian people might vote for a known terrorist organization for its leadership. Conversely, the Arab Palestinian clearly did not understand the consequences of accepting and supporting a terrorist organization.



Can you name some Palestinian parties who are *not* considered terrorists by the third grade name callers?


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 15, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


All of them seem to be braibricked in one way or another.


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 15, 2014)

Billo_Really,  _et al,_

No matter what you might think, the Israelis tend to grow, expand and develop politically, intellectually and philosophically; the same cannot be said for the Palestinian.

Most of your commentary, about the make believe connection between the Irgun and the Likud was unsubstantiated nonsense and ignored.  But even if there were a connection by association, those members of the Irgun, surviving today --- would be 80 years old plus today.  Not much of a threat to the Arab Palestinian.  But was we address how organizations evolve and develop in western like environments, the character of such organizations, which don't live in a vacuum, do change.    



Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > In any event, the Palestinian Leadership --- no matter where you choose to start the timeline, has not advanced the cause of the Palestinians in a way that promotes economic development, entrepreneurship opportunities, and industrial and commercial factors.  The Palestinian Leadership, for the last quarter century, has failed to achieve its political agenda _(whether right or wrong)_ that has set the geo-political conditions for a declining financial system and political system that makes it impossible to stand any where close to its own.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

The unproductive Arab Palestinian nearly always base their lack of development on the "occupation."  What they don't expound upon is that the "occupation" and the accompanying security containment and quarantine has been established and maintained (and grown tighter) because of the threat the Arab Palestinian presents to local and regional security.

Had the Arab Palestinian concentrated on educational, economic and industrialization --- and the associated necessary improvement in infrastructure --- critical requirements to national prosperity --- then they would have seen a gradual reduction in the security containment and quarantine over the last quarter century.  But the fact that the Arab Palestinian demonstrated a _coup d'état_ level effort against the Jordanians _(only trying to help them)_ and a terrorist and insurgency towards Israel _(that was working towards normalized relations)_ --- choosing to invest their capital _(monetary and political)_ in combative engagements, the cordon that wrapped around them only grew stronger _(self strangulation)_.

The Arab Palestinian need to pick themselves up and work towards building a better nation then starting a fight/conflict every time they have two cents to rub together.  The world community is not going to continue to pay for the recover of their folly every two - to - three years when they skim donor contributions to buy more weapons, build more tunnels, and attack more civilian targets.



Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > One of those set conditions is the support to HAMAS and its associated terrorist affiliations.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

Interesting.  I hadn't heard that there was a critical street light issue.  

Actually, Israel will --- eventually begin a gradual relaxation of the security containment and quarantine on the State of Palestine.  They will do so at some risk to their own security and may pay a price.  If, in the gradual relaxation of the containment and quarantine, the Jihadist and Fedayeen exploit the new conditions, it will demonstrate that the security containment and quarantine needs to be tightened, rather than loosened.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 15, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

You know, that is a good question.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

It is rather difficult to identify an organized group in the set of Arab Palestinians that don't actually support Jihadist concepts. 

I don't know which Palestinian parties are non-Hostile (if any).  I would think there must be a couple.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 15, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> You know, that is a good question.
> 
> ...


Indeed, it seems that most are hostile to the occupation.

So the occupation and it toadies call them terrorists.


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 15, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Edited out if you bother to look, the footage is disjointed and does not flow. There is no continuity as such and you see the same scene twice in many cases. I heard the command to turn around and the Palestinians refused, so the warning shots in the water were legal as they did not injure any of the fishermen.


What maritime law allows Israel to interfere with a boat sailing in its own territorial waters?


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 15, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





 It is not name callers that decide they are terrorists, but nations that have teams of legal experts to settle the issue. So if the EU says that any Palestinian group that is aligned with a proven terrorist organisation is also terrorist who are we to argue.


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 15, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...






 Firing rockets at civilians and targeting children are acts of terrorism, they are not hostilities towards the occupation. If the Palestinians want to end the occupation then they need to work within the framework of the UN charter and International Law.


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 15, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> No matter what you might think, the Israelis tend to grow, expand and develop politically, intellectually and philosophically; the same cannot be said for the Palestinian.


These day's, Israel is developing more fascist and totalitarian, if you ask me.



RoccoR said:


> Most of your commentary, about the make believe connection between the Irgun and the Likud was unsubstantiated nonsense and ignored.


Aside from the members of Irgun that were members of Likud.



RoccoR said:


> But even if there were a connection by association,


WTF do mean, "if there was"?  You mentioned it yourself a few posts ago.



RoccoR said:


> those members of the Irgun, surviving today --- would be 80 years old plus today.  Not much of a threat to the Arab Palestinian.  But was we address how organizations evolve and develop in western like environments, the character of such organizations, which don't live in a vacuum, do change.


And so did Hamas.  They're ready to be a strictly political organization, but Israel won't let them.   



RoccoR said:


> The unproductive Arab Palestinian nearly always base their lack of development on the "occupation."  What they don't expound upon is that the "occupation" and the accompanying security containment and quarantine has been established and maintained (and grown tighter) because of the threat the Arab Palestinian presents to local and regional security.


That's bullshit!  Total, 100% bullshit.  The occupation and blockade are the cause of all the violence.



RoccoR said:


> Had the Arab Palestinian concentrated on educational, economic and industrialization --- and the associated necessary improvement in infrastructure --- critical requirements to national prosperity --- then they would have seen a gradual reduction in the security containment and quarantine over the last quarter century.


You are so full of shit. They've made many gestures giving Israel everything it wants in negotiations and Israel hasn't lightened up at all.  That's why I say, "Fuck it!"  Let's send in the god-damn marines and force Israel to make concessions.  If I was President, I'd tell Netanfuckyou, _"Time is up!  This is no longer your decision to make. You either leave on your own, or be forced to"._



RoccoR said:


> But the fact that the Arab Palestinian demonstrated a _coup d'état_ level effort against the Jordanians _(only trying to help them)_ and a terrorist and insurgency towards Israel _(that was working towards normalized relations)_ --- choosing to invest their capital _(monetary and political)_ in combative engagements, the cordon that wrapped around them only grew stronger _(self strangulation)_.


End the occupation and there won't be combative engagements.



RoccoR said:


> The Arab Palestinian need to pick themselves up and work towards building a better nation then starting a fight/conflict every time they have two cents to rub together.  The world community is not going to continue to pay for the recover of their folly every two - to - three years when they skim donor contributions to buy more weapons, build more tunnels, and attack more civilian targets.


Why can't they have weapons?  Are you saying they don't have a right to defend themselves?




RoccoR said:


> Interesting.  I hadn't heard that there was a critical street light issue.


It's not a critical issue.  Hamas made some street improvements and the IDF came along a little later and shot out the lamps at the top.



RoccoR said:


> Actually, Israel will --- eventually begin a gradual relaxation of the security containment and quarantine on the State of Palestine.  They will do so at some risk to their own security and may pay a price.  If, in the gradual relaxation of the containment and quarantine, the Jihadist and Fedayeen exploit the new conditions, it will demonstrate that the security containment and quarantine needs to be tightened, rather than loosened.


The "quarantine", is a war crime.  It collectively punishes 1.5 million Gazans who have committed no crime.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 15, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


Everybody has the right to their* political* opinions.


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 15, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Edited out if you bother to look, the footage is disjointed and does not flow. There is no continuity as such and you see the same scene twice in many cases. I heard the command to turn around and the Palestinians refused, so the warning shots in the water were legal as they did not injure any of the fishermen.
> ...





 International Maritime Law when it is dealing with a nation at war. The Palestinians declared war on Israel so Israel have responded with a LEGAL BLOCKADE. If they don't like it then stop engaging in war with Israel.


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 15, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Firing rockets at civilians and targeting children are acts of terrorism, they are not hostilities towards the occupation. If the Palestinians want to end the occupation then they need to work within the framework of the UN charter and International Law.


The Palestinian's aren't the ones in violation of over 200 UN resolutions, Israel is.


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 15, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> International Maritime Law when it is dealing with a nation at war. The Palestinians declared war on Israel so Israel have responded with a LEGAL BLOCKADE. If they don't like it then stop engaging in war with Israel.


It's not a war, it's an occupation.

And you have no right telling others what they can or cannot do on their own property.  You want to know just how wrong that is?  Try and tell me what's what under my own roof and see what happens next.


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 15, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...





 True but they cant put them forward in such a way as to incite violence against one side. If they say that they are not terrorists and then go about targeting children and unarmed civilians in the hope that they will force their leaders to give in they will be seen as terrorists by all decent human beings.


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 15, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Firing rockets at civilians and targeting children are acts of terrorism, they are not hostilities towards the occupation. If the Palestinians want to end the occupation then they need to work within the framework of the UN charter and International Law.
> ...





 All brought by pro Palestinian factions and the vast majority vetoed by the US and UK because of the ISLAMONAZI JEW HATRED behind them.


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 15, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> All brought by pro Palestinian factions and the vast majority vetoed by the US and UK because of the ISLAMONAZI JEW HATRED behind them.


Wrong.  You don't even know any of them, yet you comment on them anyway.  In 5 years, you're going to look back at yourself and see what I see now.


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 15, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > International Maritime Law when it is dealing with a nation at war. The Palestinians declared war on Israel so Israel have responded with a LEGAL BLOCKADE. If they don't like it then stop engaging in war with Israel.
> ...





It is a war of the Palestinians making and rather than kill thousands of innocents as hamas wants Israel places gaza ubderf a blockade and the west bank under occupation. They could lift both and engage in a war of annihilation if you want, and flatten gaza in the process. Those are the options so decide which will best suit your political dogma, all out war that the Palestinians can never win or the status quo.


----------



## ChrisL (Oct 15, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



I agree.  Can you imagine what it would be like if the Palestinians had control over that region?    Israel offers the area at least some semblance of stability.  As a matter of fact, I would go so far as to say they are the ONLY country over there that is stable.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 15, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...


Children killed since 2000
Israelis: 131
Palestinians: 1656
Remember These Children

Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling kettle black.


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 15, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > All brought by pro Palestinian factions and the vast majority vetoed by the US and UK because of the ISLAMONAZI JEW HATRED behind them.
> ...




 So who brought the resolutions, list them and the initiating nation so we can see the evidence you seem so strongly in agreement. Remember that the security council is under the control of the ISLAMOINAZI's and they decide which resolutions are acted on.

Criticism of the United Nations - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 15, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...





 Why the cut off date of 2000 leaving the many thousands of Jews killed by the arab muslims in the preceding 52 years out of the equation.  Your duplicity and manipulations are noted and queried so time to man up and tell the truth.

*Conflicts since 1950 with over 10,000 Fatalities (all figures rounded)**

140,000,000Red China, 1949-76 (outright killing, manmade famine, Gulag)210,000,000Soviet Bloc: late Stalinism, 1950-53; post-Stalinism, to 1987 (mostly Gulag)34,000,000Ethiopia, 1962-92: Communists, artificial hunger, genocides43,800,000Zaire (Congo-Kinshasa): 1967-68; 1977-78; 1992-95; 1998-present52,800,000Korean war, 1950-5361,900,000Sudan, 1955-72; 1983-2006 (civil wars, genocides)71,870,000Cambodia: Khmer Rouge 1975-79; civil war 1978-9181,800,000Vietnam War, 1954-7591,800,000Afghanistan: Soviet and internecine killings, Taliban 1980-2001101,250,000West Pakistan massacres in East Pakistan (Bangladesh 1971)111,100,000Nigeria, 1966-79 (Biafra); 1993-present121,100,000Mozambique, 1964-70 (30,000) + after retreat of Portugal 1976-92131,000,000Iran-Iraq-War, 1980-8814900,000Rwanda genocide, 199415875,000Algeria: against France 1954-62 (675,000); between Islamists and the government 1991-2006 (200,000)16850,000Uganda, 1971-79; 1981-85; 1994-present17650,000Indonesia: Marxists 1965-66 (450,000); East Timor, Papua, Aceh etc, 1969-present (200,000)18580,000Angola: war against Portugal 1961-72 (80,000); after Portugal's retreat (1972-2002)19500,000Brazil against its Indians, up to 199920430,000Vietnam, after the war ended in 1975 (own people; boat refugees)21400,000Indochina: against France, 1945-5422400,000Burundi, 1959-present (Tutsi/Hutu)23400,000Somalia, 1991-present24400,000North Korea up to 2006 (own people)25300,000Kurds in Iraq, Iran, Turkey, 1980s-1990s26300,000Iraq, 1970-2003 (Saddam against minorities)27240,000Colombia, 1946-58; 1964-present28200,000Yugoslavia, Tito regime, 1944-8029200,000Guatemala, 1960-9630190,000Laos, 1975-9031175,000Serbia against Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Kosovo, 1991-199932150,000Romania, 1949-99 (own people)33150,000Liberia, 1989-9734140,000Russia against Chechnya, 1994-present35150,000Lebanon civil war, 1975-9036140,000Kuwait War, 1990-9137130,000Philippines: 1946-54 (10,000); 1972-present (120,000)38130,000Burma/Myanmar, 1948-present39100,000North Yemen, 1962-7040100,000Sierra Leone, 1991-present41100,000Albania, 1945-91 (own people)4280,000Iran, 1978-79 (revolution)4375,000Iraq, 2003-present (domestic)4475,000El Salvador, 1975-924570,000Eritrea against Ethiopia, 1998-20004668,000Sri Lanka, 1997-present4760,000Zimbabwe, 1966-79; 1980-present4860,000Nicaragua, 1972-91 (Marxists/natives etc,)*49**51,000**Arab-Israeli conflict 1950-present*5050,000North Vietnam, 1954-75 (own people)5150,000Tajikistan, 1992-96 (secularists against Islamists)5250,000Equatorial Guinea, 1969-795350,000Peru, 1980-20005450,000Guinea, 1958-845540,000Chad, 1982-905630,000Bulgaria, 1948-89 (own people)5730,000Rhodesia, 1972-795830,000Argentina, 1976-83 (own people)5927,000Hungary, 1948-89 (own people)6026,000Kashmir independence, 1989-present6125,000Jordan government vs. Palestinians, 1970-71 (Black September)6222,000Poland, 1948-89 (own people)6320,000Syria, 1982 (against Islamists in Hama)6420,000Chinese-Vietnamese war, 19796519,000Morocco: war against France, 1953-56 (3,000) and in Western Sahara, 1975-present (16,000)6618,000Congo Republic, 1997-996710,000South Yemen, 1986 (civil war)
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]*Sources: Z. Brzezinski, _Out of Control: Global Turmoil on the Eve of the Twenty-first Century_, 1993; S. Courtois, _Le Livre Noir du Communism_, 1997; G. Heinsohn, _Lexikon der Völkermorde_, 1999, 2nd ed.; G. Heinsohn, _Söhne und Weltmacht_, 2006, 8th ed.; R. Rummel, _Death by Government_, 1994; M. Small and J.D. Singer, _Resort to Arms: International and Civil Wars 1816-1980_, 1982; M. White, "Death Tolls for the Major Wars and Atrocities of the Twentieth Century," 2003.

 Here is a list of conflicts that shows the numbers killed since 1950, take a look at were the Israeli Palestinian conflict is


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## Phoenall (Oct 15, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > All brought by pro Palestinian factions and the vast majority vetoed by the US and UK because of the ISLAMONAZI JEW HATRED behind them.
> ...





 WRONG as I was you 20 years ago and then I saw the light, and at the same time I saw the muslims doing the same thing in the UK as they did in Palestine. So I did some research and saw the real problems, the RABID ANTI SEMITISM in the UN. The Jew hatred that is still widespread and the wishes of many people to see the Jews wiped out. The LIES believed by gullible left wing morons about the Jews and Israel that hide the real truth. The use of 2000 as a cut of date because before then the numbers of Jewish children massacred by Palestinians was much higher than the figures after.
 As for the resolutions being anti semitic  this might help you understand why many see it as so

Criticism of the United Nations - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 Issues relating to the state of Israel, the Palestinian people and other aspects of the Arab-Israeli conflict occupy a large amount of debate time, resolutions and resources at the United Nations. Critics such as Dore Gold, Alan Dershowitz, Mark Dreyfus, Robert S. Wistrich, Alan Keyes, and the Anti-Defamation League consider UN attention on Israel's treatment of Palestinians to be excessive.[24][25][26][27][28][29] According to Wistrich, "a third of all critical resolutions passed by [the UN] Human Rights Commission during the past forty years have been directed exclusively at Israel. By way of comparison, there has not been a single resolution even mentioning the massive violations of human rights in China, Russia, North Korea, Cuba, Saudi Arabia, Syria, or Zimbabwe


The UN has been accused by Dershowitz, human rights activists Elie Wiesel, Anne Bayefsky, and Bayard Rustin, historian Robert S. Wistrich, and feminists Phyllis Chesler and Sonia Johnson of tolerating antisemitic remarks within its walls.[24][27][34][35] Israeli delegates to the UN "have been treated to a sickening litany of anti-Semitic abuse at the General Assembly, in the UN Human Rights Commission, and sometimes even in the Security Council" for decades.[24]
UN conferences throughout the 1970s and into the 1980s often passed resolutions denouncing Zionism. These conferences often did not have anything to do with Middle East politics. UN documents of the period denied the existence of the Jewish people, the history of ancient Israel, the Holocaust, and the notion that Jews deserve the same rights granted to other groups.[36] Wistrich described the 1980 World Conference of the United Nations Decade for Women in Copenhagen in his book, _A Lethal Obsession_:
"Jewish feminists heard truly chilling comments, such as 'The only good Jew is a dead Jew' and 'The only way to rid the world of Zionism is to kill all the Jews.' One eye-witness overheard other delegates saying that the American women's movement had a bad name because its most prominent founding figures ... were all Jewish. The feminist activist Sonia Johnson described the anti-Semitism at the Copenhagen conference as 'over, wild, and irrational.' ... The psychologist and author Phyllis Chesler recorded the savage response when one Jewish woman mentioned that her husband had been shot without a trial in Iraq and that she had to escape to Israel with her children. The place went wild: 'Cuba si! Yankee no! PLO! PLO!' they shouted. 'Israel kills babies and women. Israel must die.'"[24]
The most infamous example of this trend was the passage of United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3379, which equated Zionism with racism, on November 10, 1975. It was the first postwar ideology to ever be condemned in the United Nations' history. The resolution was internationally condemned in the media (especially in the media of Western countries). Many observers noted that the resolution was passed on the thirty-seventh anniversary of Kristallnacht, the pogrom historians agree marked the beginning of the Holocaust.


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## toastman (Oct 15, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...


Because they have partaken in many terrorist activities.


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## toastman (Oct 15, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



What does death toll have to do with who's a terrorist ?
Hamas is responsible for most of those Palestinian deaths anyway.


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## montelatici (Oct 15, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



The Jews declared war by invading Palestine from their base in Europe.  That's just fact.


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## montelatici (Oct 15, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



If you use Orwellian logic.  That's like saying the Italian Resistance was responsible for most of the civilians killed by the Nazis after 1943.


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## toastman (Oct 15, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Haha no it's not. Your comparisons are so childish and ridiculous. What do you expect to happen when you constantly attack the most militarized country in the ME.


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## toastman (Oct 15, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



No it isn't. An invasion is a military offensive by combatants. European Jews were not combatants. They were invited by the British. And they never declared war.

"from their bade in Europe"

Hhahaha you are  propaganda machine


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## Challenger (Oct 15, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Invasion:
*1. * The act of invading, especially the entrance of an armed force into a territory to conquer.
*2. * A large-scale onset of something injurious or harmful, such as a disease.
*3. * An intrusion or encroachment.
invasion - definition of invasion by The Free Dictionary

Definition 3 certainly applies, but I suppose a case could also be made for definition 2 at a stretch. 

Nobody invited Jewish settlement, they just didn't restrict it until they realised they'd made a terrible mistake.


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## montelatici (Oct 15, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



The Nazis were very "militarized" compared to the Italian Resistance which only had small arms.  The Nazis were a little less brutal than the Israelis. They only killed 10 civilians to one German killed, the Israelis, at 500 to one or so,are far more brutal than the Nazis. The Nazis that committed this type of atrocities ended up being tried for crimes against humanity.

For example:

"The partisans had proved extremely effective in aiding the Allies; by the summer of 1944, resistance fighters had immobilized eight of the 26 German divisions in northern Italy. German reaction to resistance activity was brutal; in one incident, German soldiers killed 382 Italian men, women, and children as revenge for a partisan attack that killed 35 German soldiers. "

Italian resistance fighters persevere mdash History.com This Day in History mdash 9 6 1944


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## toastman (Oct 15, 2014)

"The Nazis were a little less brutal than the Israelis"

                     

Ya, the Nazi who killed million and millions of people were not as brutal as Israel 

You truly are a fucked up person Monti. Go get help because God knows you need it


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## toastman (Oct 15, 2014)

Challenger said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



None of those apply. The Jews WERE invited by the British. Immigration by non combatants in order to settle somewhere else is not invading. 

Number 2 certainly applies to what the 5 Arab states did in 1948. Not only did they NOT HELP the 'Palestinians', but Israel captured 50% of the territory allotted to the Palestinians in the partition plan. 
Hamas coming to power in Gaza was also certainly a disease.
The Jews coming to the land was a blessing,.


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## Billo_Really (Oct 15, 2014)

ChrisL said:


> I agree.  Can you imagine what it would be like if the Palestinians had control over that region?    Israel offers the area at least some semblance of stability.  As a matter of fact, I would go so far as to say they are the ONLY country over there that is stable.


While their racist, apartheid policies, destabilize the entire region.


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## ChrisL (Oct 15, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > I agree.  Can you imagine what it would be like if the Palestinians had control over that region?    Israel offers the area at least some semblance of stability.  As a matter of fact, I would go so far as to say they are the ONLY country over there that is stable.
> ...



Well, I just don't see it that way at all.


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## RoccoR (Oct 15, 2014)

Billo_Really,  _et al,_

No --- you have it backwards.



Billo_Really said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > I agree.  Can you imagine what it would be like if the Palestinians had control over that region?    Israel offers the area at least some semblance of stability.  As a matter of fact, I would go so far as to say they are the ONLY country over there that is stable.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

It is the Hostile Arab Palestinian in the demonstration of their Jihadist ways that is destabilizing the entire region.

*Hamas Threatens Jews to Leave Israel - Or Else*
'We will not keep you [Jews] in our country,' Hamas political official warns, ahead of Cairo conference.​
Hamas leader Khalil al-Haya insisted that Hamas "would not abandon its weapons" on Saturday, boasting that the group is allegedly closer to defeating "the Israeli entity and its leaders" more than ever.

"We say to those who brought the Jews [to Israel] from all over the world, we are now confident and believe more than ever in the implementation of the promise of Allah - that we will not keep you [Jews] in our country," Al-Haya threatened. "The option available to you is to leave the country for its native residents [Palestinian Arabs]."

Al-Haya added, in this context, that Hamas is "paving the way" for the success of the Palestinian "unity government," noting that Sunday's talks for international aid for Gaza in Cairo legitimizes the terror group politically and proves that war works.​
Most Respectfully,
R


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## ChrisL (Oct 15, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Billo_Really,  _et al,_
> 
> No --- you have it backwards.
> 
> ...



I do believe that if the Palestinians would stop trying to kill Israelis, then there could be some semblance of peace.  I really do.


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## toastman (Oct 15, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > I agree.  Can you imagine what it would be like if the Palestinians had control over that region?    Israel offers the area at least some semblance of stability.  As a matter of fact, I would go so far as to say they are the ONLY country over there that is stable.
> ...


I love it when you call Isral racist when the Palestinians have expressed their racism so many times


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## Challenger (Oct 16, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Billo_Really,  _et al,_
> 
> No --- you have it backwards.
> 
> ...



Wonder who translated that?


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## Challenger (Oct 16, 2014)

toastman said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



Care to provide a copy of the invitations issued? Unwanted settlers are invaders, combatants or not. As for a blessing, I doubt the Palestinians would agree with you; 66 years of having to resista foreign invader is hardly a blessing.


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## Billo_Really (Oct 16, 2014)

toastman said:


> What does death toll have to do with who's a terrorist ?
> Hamas is responsible for most of those Palestinian deaths anyway.


That's the same as saying,_ "Of coarse she got raped, she was wearing a red dress!"_


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## Billo_Really (Oct 16, 2014)

toastman said:


> I love it when you call Isral racist when the Palestinians have expressed their racism so many times


The Palestinian's have said they're willing to accept a two-state solution, whereas the Israeli's only want a "Jewish State".

There are "Jew only" roads and communities in Israel; there are no "Arab only" roads in Palestine.

Why don't we talk about your racism against Arabs?


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## Billo_Really (Oct 16, 2014)

ChrisL said:


> I do believe that if the Palestinians would stop trying to kill Israelis, then there could be some semblance of peace.  I really do.


You've never lived under the occupation of a foreign force.


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## Billo_Really (Oct 16, 2014)

ChrisL said:


> Well, I just don't see it that way at all.


That's fine! We can agree to disagree.  I wish more of the pro-Israeli crowd could be this mature.


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## Billo_Really (Oct 16, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Billo_Really,  _et al,_
> 
> No --- you have it backwards.
> 
> ...


You're taking what he said out of context.


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## ChrisL (Oct 16, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > I do believe that if the Palestinians would stop trying to kill Israelis, then there could be some semblance of peace.  I really do.
> ...



I believe (I know) that the Israeli people are very similar to us, and that they do NOT want to fight.  They just want to live their lives!


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## RoccoR (Oct 16, 2014)

Billo_Really,  _et al,_

I'm not taking anything out of context; it is a "quote."



Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really,  _et al,_
> ...


(COMMENT)

What is the (in your opinion) the proper "context?"

Most Respectfully,
R


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## aris2chat (Oct 16, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > I love it when you call Isral racist when the Palestinians have expressed their racism so many times
> ...




Hamas does no want a two state solution.  The want the death of all jews.
Back to the old outdated road accusation? Really?
The road did not have entrance or exits near every small palestinian village.  If someone wanted to use the road, they would have to drive to on of the on ramps.  It is not a jew only road.


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



Hamas wants Palestine back.  Not the death of all Jews.


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## RoccoR (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici,  _et al,_

We are well past the point where HAMAS has any claim beyond that recognized in:

A/RES/43/177  15 December 1988
_Affirms _the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;​
A/RES/67/19  4 December 2012
_Affirms its determination_ to contribute to the achievement of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and the attainment of a peaceful settlement in the Middle East that ends the occupation that began in 1967 and fulfils the vision of two States: an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable State of Palestine living side by side in peace and security with Israel on the basis of the pre-1967 borders;​
Both of which:  _Recalling _its resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947, in which, _inter alia_, it called for the establishment of an Arab State and a Jewish State in Palestine,



montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

First, a point of clarification.  To my knowledge, there is no such thing as a "Jewish Only" Road inside the borders of Israel and Area "C".  Within Israel and Area "C", there are such things as secular security Roads Restrictions between Israeli Citizens _[any Religious Affiliation (Jewish, Muslim, Arab, Chrisitan, Ba'hai, etc)] _and non-Israeli Citizens.  These restrictions are anti-terrorist measures that help protect against Hostiles attacks and the use of vehicle-borne IEDs.  Neither are these restrictions an "Apartheid" measure --- in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.  The restrictions are rational and practical --- straight forward --- countermeasures to protect against any Israeli civilian population, pursuant to --- or in furtherance of --- a Palestinian organizational policy _(Article 13 of HAMAS Covenant, --- 
Article 9 of Palestine National Charter of 1968, and Part I, Item 5, of the HAMAS Official Policy 2013) to commit such attacks  (Article 7 ---Crimes against humanity, Rome Statutes).  
_
The definition used by HAMAS differs greatly from the contemporary official designation of "Palestine."  It is NOT the Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, as a homeland and legitimate right to the Arab Palestinian.  



			
				The General Assembly said:
			
		

> _Decides _that, effective as of 15 December 1988, the designation "Palestine" should be used in place of the designation "Palestine Liberation Organization" in the United Nations system, without prejudice to the observer status and functions of the Palestine Liberation Organization within the United Nations system, in conformity with relevant United Nations resolutions and practice;
> *SOURCE:* A/RES/43/177  15 December 1988



As previously cited, supra, the term "Palestine" has evolved, wherein the General Assembly _Acknowledges _the proclamation of the State of Palestine 

 by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988.  What HAMAS wants is not their sovereignty to have.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## toastman (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



They want both. But they ain't getting either


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## aris2chat (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...


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## Penelope (Oct 17, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



If you believe those subtitles , I feel bad for you.


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## Challenger (Oct 17, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



Priceless!


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## Challenger (Oct 17, 2014)

Penelope said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Nah, it's a comedy spoof sketch, a bit like those "Downfall" clips 


Brilliant.


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## montelatici (Oct 17, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  _et al,_
> 
> We are well past the point where HAMAS has any claim beyond that recognized in:
> 
> ...



"These restrictions are anti-terrorist measures that help protect against Hostiles attacks"

Same excuse the Boers would use.  See where that got them. The hostiles are the murderous Israelis that kill 100s of children at a pop in a few weeks..


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## docmauser1 (Oct 17, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really,  _et al,_
> ...


Hamas has just one context, of course.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 17, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Hamas wants Palestine back.  Not the death of all Jews.


When did hamas own any "palestine" in the first place?


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## docmauser1 (Oct 17, 2014)

montelatici said:


> "These restrictions are anti-terrorist measures that help protect against Hostiles attacks" Same excuse the Boers would use.  See where that got them. The hostiles are the murderous Israelis that kill 100s of children at a pop in a few weeks..


Viva drivelaggia! hehe


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## montelatici (Oct 17, 2014)

Just fact.


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## toastman (Oct 17, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Just fact.



How many Palestinians would have been killed has Hamas not launched rockets prior to the last operation?


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## docmauser1 (Oct 17, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Just fact.


Viva factual drivelaggia!


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