# Is Teaching a respected Profession in This country?



## bodecea

I say no...it is not.  And the last few days certainly has helped prove my point.


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## Mr Natural

Doesn't it depend on who you ask?


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## California Girl

As a profession, yea. As a union, no.


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## High_Gravity

After seeing the way the kids treat teachers in middle school and high school, my answer is no.


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## bodecea

I have many teachers in my family, both of my Grandmothers were teachers and of my father's family 3 out of 4 were teachers and out of my generation, 6 out of 14 are teachers with another 3 being nurses...and 2 firefighters.  And then 2 of us military.   We have public service in our bloodline.

And it is amazing to watch how in the last 20 years how teaching has come to be so denigrated.   Why do we wonder at how we compare with other countries and cultures that respect education and educators?


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## bodecea

High_Gravity said:


> After seeing the way the kids treat teachers in middle school and high school, my answer is no.



Exactly...and where do the students get that attitude towards their teachers and where to they learn NOT to value education?


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## WillowTree

bodecea said:


> I say no...it is not.  And the last few days certainly has helped prove my point.



Why? Cause we don't think teachers should be allowed to bankrupt states? You need to grow the fuck up.. As do all liberal whiney asses.


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## California Girl

bodecea said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> After seeing the way the kids treat teachers in middle school and high school, my answer is no.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly...and where do the students get that attitude towards their teachers and where to they learn NOT to value education?
Click to expand...


From their parents and peers. When you instill a sense of entitlement in children, you do more harm than good.


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## WillowTree

bodecea said:


> I have many teachers in my family, both of my Grandmothers were teachers and of my father's family 3 out of 4 were teachers and out of my generation, 6 out of 14 are teachers with another 3 being nurses...and 2 firefighters.  And then 2 of us military.   We have public service in our bloodline.
> 
> And it is amazing to watch how in the last 20 years how teaching has come to be so denigrated.   Why do we wonder at how we compare with other countries and cultures that respect education and educators?



How would you like it if all the doctors and nurses went on strike? Huh?


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## High_Gravity

bodecea said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> After seeing the way the kids treat teachers in middle school and high school, my answer is no.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly...and where do the students get that attitude towards their teachers and where to they learn NOT to value education?
Click to expand...


Well alot of the kids laugh at the teachers because they know the teachers have no real power over them, the teachers cannot grab, hit or even cuss at the students. The teachers are shooting blanks and the kids know that. I think Military Drill Instructors are needed at some of these schools.


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## Stephanie

Why the hell should teachers be more RESPECTED than the kid who works in McDonalds.

Teaching is a noble profession, but they CHOSE to go into that feild. So that doesn't make them any better or more important the the rest of the people.

sheeesh.


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## xsited1

bodecea said:


> I say no...it is not.  And the last few days certainly has helped prove my point.



Obviously teaching is a respected profession in this country.  However, I believe there is more to your post than meets the eye.

Please forgive me if I am wrong, but I don't believe you can separate teaching and a teacher being a member of a union.  They are obviously two completely different things.  As I've mentioned before, I know dozens of private school teachers that are fantastic teachers and none of them are part of a union.  If a teacher wants to be a member of a union, no problem, but not at the expense of doing their primary job.  (For example, taking sick days and using students for their own gain is irresponsible IMO.)  I'm still unsure as to why teacher unions are so important.  Do teachers really have it that bad that they need to pay union dues for representation that they cannot get themselves?


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## bodecea

WillowTree said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have many teachers in my family, both of my Grandmothers were teachers and of my father's family 3 out of 4 were teachers and out of my generation, 6 out of 14 are teachers with another 3 being nurses...and 2 firefighters.  And then 2 of us military.   We have public service in our bloodline.
> 
> And it is amazing to watch how in the last 20 years how teaching has come to be so denigrated.   Why do we wonder at how we compare with other countries and cultures that respect education and educators?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How would you like it if all the doctors and nurses went on strike? Huh?
Click to expand...


I'm sorry...you seem to be under the impression that that has not happened before.   It does.  I blame your teachers for not teaching you how to research an assertion before making it.


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## Mr Natural

High_Gravity said:


> After seeing the way the kids treat teachers in middle school and high school, my answer is no.



That aspect of the job alone earns my respect.


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## Dr.Drock

I don't think it's fair to paint all teachers with a broad brush because you don't like unions.  Each individual is different and I think for the most part teachers want to help kids.

I don't like the union, but that doesn't mean I should judge my nephew's history teacher based on that.


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## WillowTree

bodecea said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have many teachers in my family, both of my Grandmothers were teachers and of my father's family 3 out of 4 were teachers and out of my generation, 6 out of 14 are teachers with another 3 being nurses...and 2 firefighters.  And then 2 of us military.   We have public service in our bloodline.
> 
> And it is amazing to watch how in the last 20 years how teaching has come to be so denigrated.   Why do we wonder at how we compare with other countries and cultures that respect education and educators?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How would you like it if all the doctors and nurses went on strike? Huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm sorry...you seem to be under the impression that that has not happened before.   It does.  I blame your teachers for not teaching you how to research an assertion before making it.
Click to expand...









Not in Florida. We are a right to work state and Nurses cannot legally strike. Nurses care about their patients. Evidently teachers don't give a fuck about their kids otherwise they'd have their asses in the classroon teaching.


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## bodecea

Stephanie said:


> Why the hell should teachers be more RESPECTED than the kid who works in McDonalds.
> 
> Teaching is a noble profession, but they CHOSE to go into that feild. So that doesn't make them any better or more important the the rest of the people.
> 
> sheeesh.



There you have it...a sad product of a lazy teacher, I'm sure.


Kid at McDonalds = Teacher = ditchdigger = doctor = airline pilot = janitor = bus driver.

Lets pay them all the same.


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## boedicca

Teaching is respected.

Unionizing in order to manipulate the political system for excessive benefits and pensions is not.


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## bodecea

WillowTree said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> How would you like it if all the doctors and nurses went on strike? Huh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry...you seem to be under the impression that that has not happened before.   It does.  I blame your teachers for not teaching you how to research an assertion before making it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not in Florida. We are a right to work state and Nurses cannot legally strike. Nurses care about their patients. Evidently teachers don't give a fuck about their kids otherwise they'd have their asses in the classroon teaching.
Click to expand...



So, in Florida, nurses can be treated like crap (they often are) and they have no collective options to change their lot....sounds like a fun state to work in.   

Of course teachers don't care about kids, Willow.    Teachers are in it for the money, don't you know?


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## bodecea

boedicca said:


> Teaching is respected.
> 
> Unionizing in order to manipulate the political system for excessive benefits and pensions is not.



Teachers ARE Unions.  Unions ARE Teachers.   

If teachers WERE respected by kids, parents, America...do you think unions would be necessary?


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## Stephanie

bodecea said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why the hell should teachers be more RESPECTED than the kid who works in McDonalds.
> 
> Teaching is a noble profession, but they CHOSE to go into that feild. So that doesn't make them any better or more important the the rest of the people.
> 
> sheeesh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There you have it...a sad product of a lazy teacher, I'm sure.
> 
> 
> Kid at McDonalds = Teacher = ditchdigger = doctor = airline pilot = janitor = bus driver.
> 
> Lets pay them all the same.
Click to expand...


Isn't that your LIBERALS WET DREAM? 
make up your minds, will ya.
And you've already insulted my edumaction, don't ya have sumthing new?


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## Dr.Traveler

No.  But neither is doctor, lawyer, or professor.  Heck even clergy aren't that respected anymore.  I don't know when it happened, but at some point people stopped respecting jobs that required a degree or any level of learning, instead choosing to believe that five minutes of work on google can make them equal to a person who has dedicated their life to a chosen profession.


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## WillowTree

bodecea said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry...you seem to be under the impression that that has not happened before.   It does.  I blame your teachers for not teaching you how to research an assertion before making it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not in Florida. We are a right to work state and Nurses cannot legally strike. Nurses care about their patients. Evidently teachers don't give a fuck about their kids otherwise they'd have their asses in the classroon teaching.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, in Florida, nurses can be treated like crap (they often are) and they have no collective options to change their lot....sounds like a fun state to work in.
> 
> Of course teachers don't care about kids, Willow.    Teachers are in it for the money, don't you know?
Click to expand...


Unlike nurses in Ca. who walk off the job and leave their patients to rot. Very caring assholes those liberals. and btw. nurse's in Fla aren't treated like crap.


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## High_Gravity

Mr Clean said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> After seeing the way the kids treat teachers in middle school and high school, my answer is no.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That aspect of the job alone earns my respect.
Click to expand...


I agree with you, however alot of the kids that go to school don't. They think the teachers are a joke, ask them.


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## WillowTree

bodecea said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Teaching is respected.
> 
> Unionizing in order to manipulate the political system for excessive benefits and pensions is not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Teachers ARE Unions.  Unions ARE Teachers.
> 
> If teachers WERE respected by kids, parents, America...do you think unions would be necessary?
Click to expand...


You have to earn respect just like everyone else, it's not an entitlement.. how come you teachers think you can sit in a rubber room for years and receive your pay?? what makes you so damn entitled?? doyathink? how come math teacher bring Brokeback Mountain to school and force 11 year olds to watch it? You think respect is owed to you? doyareallynow???


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## bodecea

Stephanie said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why the hell should teachers be more RESPECTED than the kid who works in McDonalds.
> 
> Teaching is a noble profession, but they CHOSE to go into that feild. So that doesn't make them any better or more important the the rest of the people.
> 
> sheeesh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There you have it...a sad product of a lazy teacher, I'm sure.
> 
> 
> Kid at McDonalds = Teacher = ditchdigger = doctor = airline pilot = janitor = bus driver.
> 
> Lets pay them all the same.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Isn't that your LIBERALS WET DREAM?
> make up your minds, will ya.
> And you've already insulted *my edumaction, don't ya have sumthing new?*
Click to expand...



No, I do not blame you...I blame your teachers.   Personal responsibility for one's own education is for suckers, right, Stephanie?


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## Ravi

Dr.Traveler said:


> No.  But neither is doctor, lawyer, or professor.  Heck even clergy aren't that respected anymore.  I don't know when it happened, but at some point people stopped respecting jobs that required a degree or any level of learning, instead choosing to believe that five minutes of work on google can make them equal to a person who has dedicated their life to a chosen profession.


It's cool to look down on people that serve the public. This can be traced directly back to Ronald Reagan.


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## xsited1

bodecea said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Teaching is respected.
> 
> Unionizing in order to manipulate the political system for excessive benefits and pensions is not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Teachers ARE Unions.  Unions ARE Teachers.
> 
> If teachers WERE respected by kids, parents, America...do you think unions would be necessary?
Click to expand...


No need to answer my post.  You've answered my question.  What you have stated is incorrect.  No more discussion is necessary.

Have a nice day.


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## boedicca

bodecea said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Teaching is respected.
> 
> Unionizing in order to manipulate the political system for excessive benefits and pensions is not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Teachers ARE Unions.  Unions ARE Teachers.
> 
> If teachers WERE respected by kids, parents, America...do you think unions would be necessary?
Click to expand...




B'loney.  It's the union thuggery that is reducing respect.    Teachers Are Not Unions - they are forced to join unions as a condition of receiving a job.  I know quite few here in CA who would happily see their union eliminated.


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## bodecea

WillowTree said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Teaching is respected.
> 
> Unionizing in order to manipulate the political system for excessive benefits and pensions is not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Teachers ARE Unions.  Unions ARE Teachers.
> 
> If teachers WERE respected by kids, parents, America...do you think unions would be necessary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have to earn respect just like everyone else, it's not an entitlement.. how come you teachers think you can sit in a rubber room for years and receive your pay?? what makes you so damn entitled?? doyathink? *how come math teacher bring Brokeback Mountain to school and force 11 year olds to watch it?* You think respect is owed to you? doyareallynow???
Click to expand...


What exactly are  you babbling about?   (Your teachers obviously were bad teachers)


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## MarcATL

"I know a few..." so therefore it must be so.

LoLing @ that notion.


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## MarcATL

Ravi said:


> Dr.Traveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  But neither is doctor, lawyer, or professor.  Heck even clergy aren't that respected anymore.  I don't know when it happened, but at some point people stopped respecting jobs that required a degree or any level of learning, instead choosing to believe that five minutes of work on google can make them equal to a person who has dedicated their life to a chosen profession.
> 
> 
> 
> It's cool to look down on people that serve the public. This can be traced directly back to Ronald Reagan.
Click to expand...


Thats the long and short of it.


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## WillowTree

bodecea said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Teachers ARE Unions.  Unions ARE Teachers.
> 
> If teachers WERE respected by kids, parents, America...do you think unions would be necessary?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have to earn respect just like everyone else, it's not an entitlement.. how come you teachers think you can sit in a rubber room for years and receive your pay?? what makes you so damn entitled?? doyathink? *how come math teacher bring Brokeback Mountain to school and force 11 year olds to watch it?* You think respect is owed to you? doyareallynow???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What exactly are  you babbling about?   (Your teachers obviously were bad teachers)
Click to expand...








You should pay attention. It's recent news. Kerry on.


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## boedicca

I don't know every teacher in CA - but of the ones in my acquaintance, the majority do not want to be part of a union.   That's my personal experience - and in CA which has very aggressive unions in an overly politically correct, it's quite telling that some would admit their disdain for their union.


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## Stephanie

> It's cool to look down on people that serve the public. This can be traced directly back to Ronald Reagan.




But I guess it's "cool" these fine upstanding public SERVANTS closing down their schools because they are too busy out PROTESTING for their own self gratification.

you betcha it's cool to look down on them, and it should be done with scorn from the American people who PAY THEIR SALARIES.


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## WillowTree

Stephanie said:


> It's cool to look down on people that serve the public. This can be traced directly back to Ronald Reagan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I guess it's "cool" these fine upstanding public SERVANTS closing down their schools because they are too busy out PROTESTING for their own self gratification.
> 
> you betcha it's cool to look down on them, and it should be done with scorn from the American people who PAY THEIR SALARIES.
Click to expand...


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## Dr.Drock

Dr.Traveler said:


> No.  But neither is doctor, lawyer, or professor.  Heck even clergy aren't that respected anymore.  I don't know when it happened, but at some point people stopped respecting jobs that required a degree or any level of learning, instead choosing to believe that five minutes of work on google can make them equal to a person who has dedicated their life to a chosen profession.



I don't think anyone should automatically be given respect because of their profession.  There can be bad teachers, bad soldiers, bad doctors, etc etc etc.

I do find myself giving a lot of respect to doctors because even if they're jerks they're forced to help people.  Plus there's a lot easier ways of finding a 6 figure job (without the medical malpractice) than being a doctor in terms of the length and difficulty of education.


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## boedicca

And it must be cool for the President and his party to deride a real grassroots movement as a bunch of RACISTS and to demonize job creators as criminals.


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## bucs90

bodecea said:


> I have many teachers in my family, both of my Grandmothers were teachers and of my father's family 3 out of 4 were teachers and out of my generation, 6 out of 14 are teachers with another 3 being nurses...and 2 firefighters.  And then 2 of us military.   We have public service in our bloodline.
> 
> And it is amazing to watch how in the last 20 years how teaching has come to be so denigrated.   Why do we wonder at how we compare with other countries and cultures that respect education and educators?



You are being hypocritical.

A few days ago you were making donut jokes about a disabled cop.

Then post a thread on how people aren't respectul enough towards teachers and other public service employees?

Start with yourself. Then demand others to respect public service.


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## Ravi

Stephanie said:


> It's cool to look down on people that serve the public. This can be traced directly back to Ronald Reagan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I guess it's "cool" these fine upstanding public SERVANTS closing down their schools because they are too busy out PROTESTING for their own self gratification.
> 
> you betcha it's cool to look down on them, and it should be done with scorn from the American people who PAY THEIR SALARIES.
Click to expand...

If you didn't treat them like shit they'd have no reason to object.


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## MarcATL

Look how quick the RWer fringers pounce and attack their fellow American WORKERS.

Yet they are quick to drop to their knees and service Big Business.

Uncanny!

*SMH*


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## bodecea

Ravi said:


> Dr.Traveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  But neither is doctor, lawyer, or professor.  Heck even clergy aren't that respected anymore.  I don't know when it happened, but at some point people stopped respecting jobs that required a degree or any level of learning, instead choosing to believe that five minutes of work on google can make them equal to a person who has dedicated their life to a chosen profession.
> 
> 
> 
> It's cool to look down on people that serve the public. This can be traced directly back to Ronald Reagan.
Click to expand...


I don't know how many times on right wing message boards I've heard people say that they should fire all the teachers and hire the homeless...that they would do a better job.  This is what teachers get from their fellow Americans.


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## bucs90

But to answer the thread question, no, teachers aren't as respected as they once were. Neither are cops. Neither are pastors. Neither are the elderly.

Why? 

Because we have glorified a culture that values rap stars, ball players, sex addicts, hippies, gays, pot smokers, and just about any other irregular behavior outside of traditional morals. We have glorified all of that above the traditional pillars of respect from our past: Which once was grandfathers, cops, teachers, firemen, etc.


But now, if you believe in some type of morality and proper behavior, then you're ridiculed in our society. Add to the mix lawyers who are ever so willing to file a lawsuit for every hurt feeling in the world, and you get today's society.


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## bodecea

WillowTree said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have to earn respect just like everyone else, it's not an entitlement.. how come you teachers think you can sit in a rubber room for years and receive your pay?? what makes you so damn entitled?? doyathink? *how come math teacher bring Brokeback Mountain to school and force 11 year olds to watch it?* You think respect is owed to you? doyareallynow???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly are  you babbling about?   (Your teachers obviously were bad teachers)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You should pay attention. It's recent news. Kerry on.
Click to expand...


Then, you should have no problem linking that story.   I would like to see what happened to the teacher....


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## bucs90

bodecea said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr.Traveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  But neither is doctor, lawyer, or professor.  Heck even clergy aren't that respected anymore.  I don't know when it happened, but at some point people stopped respecting jobs that required a degree or any level of learning, instead choosing to believe that five minutes of work on google can make them equal to a person who has dedicated their life to a chosen profession.
> 
> 
> 
> It's cool to look down on people that serve the public. This can be traced directly back to Ronald Reagan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know how many times on right wing message boards I've heard people say that they should fire all the teachers and hire the homeless...that they would do a better job.  This is what teachers get from their fellow Americans.
Click to expand...


I don't understand why left wingers (you) make smug donut jokes about a disabled cop. This is what the men who protect us and our homes get from their fellow Americans (you).


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## Stephanie

Ravi said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's cool to look down on people that serve the public. This can be traced directly back to Ronald Reagan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I guess it's "cool" these fine upstanding public SERVANTS closing down their schools because they are too busy out PROTESTING for their own self gratification.
> 
> you betcha it's cool to look down on them, and it should be done with scorn from the American people who PAY THEIR SALARIES.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you didn't treat them like shit they'd have no reason to object.
Click to expand...


cry me a river.
waaaa


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## WillowTree

Ravi said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's cool to look down on people that serve the public. This can be traced directly back to Ronald Reagan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I guess it's "cool" these fine upstanding public SERVANTS closing down their schools because they are too busy out PROTESTING for their own self gratification.
> 
> you betcha it's cool to look down on them, and it should be done with scorn from the American people who PAY THEIR SALARIES.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you didn't treat them like shit they'd have no reason to object.
Click to expand...


so, you don't give a shit if the state goes broke cause they want theirs?? No sacrifice from unions huh// figures.


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## bodecea

Stephanie said:


> It's cool to look down on people that serve the public. This can be traced directly back to Ronald Reagan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I guess it's "cool" these fine upstanding public SERVANTS closing down their schools because they are too busy out PROTESTING for their own self gratification.
> 
> you betcha it's cool to look down on them, and it should be done with scorn from the American people who PAY THEIR SALARIES.
Click to expand...


Well, they could meekly do nothing....that will get attention to their cause, won't it?


Your teachers simply failed you in higher level thinking skills, didn't they?


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## bucs90

MarcATL said:


> Look how quick the RWer fringers pounce and attack their fellow American WORKERS.
> 
> Yet they are quick to drop to their knees and service Big Business.
> 
> Uncanny!
> 
> *SMH*



You are only a "worker" because a business hired you.

You do not have a right or entitlement to work. You work because someone else is willing to pay you.

Us on the right understand that. If we want to keep earning a paycheck, we must be appreciative to those who give us one.

In other words......"Don't bite the hand that feeds you."

Funny how old sayings always ring true isn't it?


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## WillowTree

Unions killed Detroit.


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## bodecea

Stephanie said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I guess it's "cool" these fine upstanding public SERVANTS closing down their schools because they are too busy out PROTESTING for their own self gratification.
> 
> you betcha it's cool to look down on them, and it should be done with scorn from the American people who PAY THEIR SALARIES.
> 
> 
> 
> If you didn't treat them like shit they'd have no reason to object.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> cry me a river.
> waaaa
Click to expand...


There you go....


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## bucs90

The unions just don't understand math.

State is going broke. Thus....

1- Either cut a little bit for everyone
2- Or cut everything for some

Aren't liberals utopian? Best for all, right? They'd rather see some get fired than everyone give up just a little bit.


OH WAIT I forgot liberals have option #3- Force by threat of violence more money out of our pockets to give them what they are entitled to.


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## bodecea

WillowTree said:


> Unions killed Detroit.



Detroit is dead?


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## Stephanie

bodecea said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr.Traveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  But neither is doctor, lawyer, or professor.  Heck even clergy aren't that respected anymore.  I don't know when it happened, but at some point people stopped respecting jobs that required a degree or any level of learning, instead choosing to believe that five minutes of work on google can make them equal to a person who has dedicated their life to a chosen profession.
> 
> 
> 
> It's cool to look down on people that serve the public. This can be traced directly back to Ronald Reagan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know how many times on right wing message boards I've heard people say that they should fire all the teachers and hire the homeless...that they would do a better job.  This is what teachers get from their fellow Americans.
Click to expand...


LOL, nice try. We are ONLY talking about firing those fine upstanding public servants (teachers) who are protesting and CLOSING down their schools by doing it. They are only getting what they are giving to the American people, the middle finger. tough shit.


----------



## bucs90

WillowTree said:


> Unions killed Detroit.



And New Jersey.
And Philly.
And NYC.
And Cali.
And Seattle.
And Greece.
And France.
And Italy.
And Spain.


Keep going?


----------



## Dr.Drock

bucs90 said:


> But to answer the thread question, no, teachers aren't as respected as they once were. Neither are cops. Neither are pastors. Neither are the elderly.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Because we have glorified a culture that values rap stars, ball players, sex addicts, hippies, gays, pot smokers, and just about any other irregular behavior outside of traditional morals. We have glorified all of that above the traditional pillars of respect from our past: Which once was grandfathers, cops, teachers, firemen, etc.
> 
> 
> But now, if you believe in some type of morality and proper behavior, then you're ridiculed in our society. Add to the mix lawyers who are ever so willing to file a lawsuit for every hurt feeling in the world, and you get today's society.



Blindly respecting anyone because of title is silly to me.  Whether it's a rap star, pastor, ball player, grandfather, movie star or cop.

Maybe the rap star donated a bunch of money to Haiti relief, maybe the pastor rapes kids, maybe the ball player gives time every week to a children's hospital, maybe the grandfather is a drunk who beat his kids and wife, maybe the movie star gives a ton of their money back to charity, maybe the cop is a racist who abuses his power.

Judge the individual, not the title.


----------



## MarcATL

bucs90 said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look how quick the RWer fringers pounce and attack their fellow American WORKERS.
> 
> Yet they are quick to drop to their knees and service Big Business.
> 
> Uncanny!
> 
> *SMH*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are only a "worker" because a business hired you.
> 
> You do not have a right or entitlement to work. You work because someone else is willing to pay you.
> 
> Us on the right understand that. If we want to keep earning a paycheck, we must be appreciative to those who give us one.
> 
> In other words......"Don't bite the hand that feeds you."
> 
> Funny how old sayings always ring true isn't it?
Click to expand...

I'm sure that's the same arguments those fascists were using when child labor laws were not in place.

Keep your far RW propaganda to yourself. I don't like to be held hostage thank you.


----------



## bodecea

bucs90 said:


> The unions just don't understand math.
> 
> State is going broke. Thus....
> 
> 1- Either cut a little bit for everyone
> 2- Or cut everything for some
> 
> Aren't liberals utopian? Best for all, right? They'd rather see some get fired than everyone give up just a little bit.
> 
> 
> OH WAIT I forgot liberals have option #3- *Force by threat of violence* more money out of our pockets to give them what they are entitled to.



????


----------



## Ravi

WillowTree said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I guess it's "cool" these fine upstanding public SERVANTS closing down their schools because they are too busy out PROTESTING for their own self gratification.
> 
> you betcha it's cool to look down on them, and it should be done with scorn from the American people who PAY THEIR SALARIES.
> 
> 
> 
> If you didn't treat them like shit they'd have no reason to object.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so, you don't give a shit if the state goes broke cause they want theirs?? No sacrifice from unions huh// figures.
Click to expand...

What state? Wisconsin...that's all BS brought to you by the Republican governor.


> Furthermore, this broadside comes less than a month after the state's  fiscal bureau -- the Wisconsin equivalent of the Congressional Budget  Office -- concluded that Wisconsin isn't even in need of austerity  measures, and could conclude the fiscal year with a surplus. In fact,  they  say that the current budget shortfall is a direct result of tax  cut policies Walker enacted in his first days in office.


Wisconsin Gov. Walker Ginned Up Budget Shortfall To Undercut Worker Rights | TPMDC

Not allowing working people to form a bargaining group is a direct attack on the first amendment.

Enjoy knowing what a tool you are.


----------



## bucs90

Stephanie said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's cool to look down on people that serve the public. This can be traced directly back to Ronald Reagan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know how many times on right wing message boards I've heard people say that they should fire all the teachers and hire the homeless...that they would do a better job.  This is what teachers get from their fellow Americans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL, nice try. We are ONLY talking about firing those fine upstanding public servants (teachers) who are protesting and CLOSING down their schools by doing it. They are only getting what they are giving to the American people, the middle finger. tough shit.
Click to expand...


They weren't even talking about layoffs. Just slight cuts.

The liberal union greed is amazing.

Funny. Their logic is that they will NOT give up just a little bit more.

Yet, their "TAX THE RICH" would've required the rich to give up just a little bit more.

So it's OK to ask one American to give up a little more, but not themselves, right?

Inconsistent, hypocritical liberalism at it's best. YOU give up some, but NOT ME.


----------



## bodecea

bucs90 said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unions killed Detroit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And New Jersey.
> And Philly.
> And NYC.
> And Cali.
> And Seattle.
> And Greece.
> And France.
> And Italy.
> And Spain.
> 
> 
> Keep going?
Click to expand...


They're all dead?  How odd...I don't remember the obituaries.


----------



## WillowTree

bucs90 said:


> The unions just don't understand math.
> 
> State is going broke. Thus....
> 
> 1- Either cut a little bit for everyone
> 2- Or cut everything for some
> 
> Aren't liberals utopian? Best for all, right? They'd rather see some get fired than everyone give up just a little bit.
> 
> 
> OH WAIT I forgot liberals have option #3- Force by threat of violence more money out of our pockets to give them what they are entitled to.



Did you watch the goings on when UPS struck years ago.. the unions declared a victory but thousands of them lost their jobs.


----------



## boedicca

bodecea said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unions killed Detroit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detroit is dead?
Click to expand...



It's dying.

The population is half what it was in the 1950s.  A city with a shrinking population is not a healthy place.

Detroit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A city which is demolishing buildings and turning them into agricultural plots also has serious issues.


----------



## bucs90

bodecea said:


> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The unions just don't understand math.
> 
> State is going broke. Thus....
> 
> 1- Either cut a little bit for everyone
> 2- Or cut everything for some
> 
> Aren't liberals utopian? Best for all, right? They'd rather see some get fired than everyone give up just a little bit.
> 
> 
> OH WAIT I forgot liberals have option #3- *Force by threat of violence* more money out of our pockets to give them what they are entitled to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ????
Click to expand...


Bodecea, how the heck did you make Officer School? You are about as bright as a North Pole basement.

Yes, they want to get more and keep what they got. The state is broke. Only raising taxes will do that.


Taxes are collected "by threat of violence" and are NOT voluntarily.

So the state raises taxes, FORCING people to pay it. If they don't pay, men with guns will force compliance or arrest. Resist that, and violence ensues to complete the arrest and stop the resisting.

Thus, the unions want the states to make ends meet (aka raise taxes so they can keep their entitlement), and if the state raises taxes, then it is money taken "by force through threat of violence".

Without threat of violence, no one would pay their taxes.

And YOU were the line standing between us and Soviet subs?


----------



## WillowTree

boedicca said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unions killed Detroit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detroit is dead?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's dying.
> 
> The population is half what it was in the 1950s.  A city with a shrinking population is not a healthy place.
> 
> Detroit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> A city which is demolishing buildings and turning them into agricultural plots also has serious issues.
Click to expand...


It looks like a thrid world country.


----------



## bucs90

bodecea said:


> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unions killed Detroit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And New Jersey.
> And Philly.
> And NYC.
> And Cali.
> And Seattle.
> And Greece.
> And France.
> And Italy.
> And Spain.
> 
> 
> Keep going?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They're all dead?  How odd...I don't remember the obituaries.
Click to expand...


Not dead. Just broke, starving, burning and rioting. 

But otherwise OK!!!!


----------



## chesswarsnow

Sorry bout that,


1. Here's what pisses me off about the school system.
2. The superintendents get an outrageous salary, here and in most districts, sometimes more than the Presidents salary.
3. Here in Fort Worth, I think he gets around a half million a year, plus benefits out the ying yang, retirement benefits out the ying yang too.
4. All the school board members around here are filthy rich bastards for making school policy, thats not working.
5. The teachers can never be paid enough, its impossible, but the heads over them, stuff their pockets full to the brim, which hurts the whole school systems.
6. I say we throw out the whole thing and start anew, best idea ever!
7. If teachers were more like regular people, able to be fired, and didn't have union protections, then that would free up more *dead wood teachers*, which would help the children's futures.
8. The dumb ass TAS testing, is total bullshit, kids should get a report card, A's B's C's D's and F's should be what I'm seeing, I see shit for grades, there's bullshit for a grade now, and you either go to next grade or not.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


----------



## Jarhead

MarcATL said:


> Look how quick the RWer fringers pounce and attack their fellow American WORKERS.
> 
> Yet they are quick to drop to their knees and service Big Business.
> 
> Uncanny!
> 
> *SMH*



Spin, as is the norm for you MarcAtl.

We are attacking the arrogance of those that make up the academic workforce. Sure they are important. So are the farmers so we can eat, the doctors so we can be healthy, the police so we can be safe, the manufacturwers of electronics so we can be entertained, the manufascturers of shoes so we can not go barefoot.

People opt to be teachers, farmers, police, electronics manufacturers, doctors, shoe manufacturers.

Yet, for some reason, the teachers feel that they should be put on a pedestal for choosing their profession.

Ironically, they all seem to say they do it ONLY becuase they care about the better good for society...but the minute they need to do what is necessry for the good of society from a financial standpoint, the balk, complain and say...."not us!"


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

An effective parasite doesn't kill the host.
Unions are  killing the country I guess thats the point  comrade.


----------



## MarcATL

Notice how the far RW fringers are quick to attack and label their fellow American workers that are PEACEFULLY protesting their mistreatment as "using the threat of violence."

Yet, when RWers came to public rallies with rifles and assault weapons they called it excersizing their Rights.

Interesting how that works in the Far RW minds...isn't it?


----------



## WillowTree

bodecea said:


> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unions killed Detroit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And New Jersey.
> And Philly.
> And NYC.
> And Cali.
> And Seattle.
> And Greece.
> And France.
> And Italy.
> And Spain.
> 
> 
> Keep going?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They're all dead?  How odd...I don't remember the obituaries.
Click to expand...







No surprises there, you didn't know about the revered teacher showing BrokeBack Mountain in Math Class either.


----------



## MarcATL

Jarhead said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look how quick the RWer fringers pounce and attack their fellow American WORKERS.
> 
> Yet they are quick to drop to their knees and service Big Business.
> 
> Uncanny!
> 
> *SMH*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spin, as is the norm for you MarcAtl.
> 
> We are attacking the arrogance of those that make up the academic workforce. Sure they are important. So are the farmers so we can eat, the doctors so we can be healthy, the police so we can be safe, the manufacturwers of electronics so we can be entertained, the manufascturers of shoes so we can not go barefoot.
> 
> People opt to be teachers, farmers, police, electronics manufacturers, doctors, shoe manufacturers.
> 
> Yet, for some reason, the teachers feel that they should be put on a pedestal for choosing their profession.
> 
> Ironically, they all seem to say they do it ONLY becuase they care about the better good for society...but the minute they need to do what is necessry for the good of society from a financial standpoint, the balk, complain and say...."not us!"
Click to expand...


Nonsense!


----------



## WorldWatcher

bodecea said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly are  you babbling about?   (Your teachers obviously were bad teachers)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should pay attention. It's recent news. Kerry on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then, you should have no problem linking that story.   I would like to see what happened to the teacher....
Click to expand...



It wasn't a teacher it was a *substitute teacher*, substitutes are those that can't get a job teaching and are normally unqualified for the material but are warm bodies that fill in when the regular teacher is out.


Chicago Board of Ed Sued for Teacher Allegedly Showing 'Brokeback Mountain' in Class - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com



Many try to paint this as a "teacher" that did it, however it was not the regular teacher and they conveniently spin it by leaving the "substitute" part out.


>>>>


----------



## bodecea

boedicca said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unions killed Detroit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detroit is dead?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's dying.
> 
> The population is half what it was in the 1950s.  A city with a shrinking population is not a healthy place.
> 
> Detroit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> A city which is demolishing buildings and turning them into agricultural plots also has serious issues.
Click to expand...


Cities grow and shrink...that is the cycle...heard of the rust belt?   How about other cities that are no longer cities over time.....

Besides, you said Detroit was dead...now you say it is dying....next you will say it has a mild cough.   Please make up your mind.


----------



## NYcarbineer

It is a major plank in the Right's platform to denigrate the teaching profession.


----------



## Jarhead

MarcATL said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look how quick the RWer fringers pounce and attack their fellow American WORKERS.
> 
> Yet they are quick to drop to their knees and service Big Business.
> 
> Uncanny!
> 
> *SMH*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spin, as is the norm for you MarcAtl.
> 
> We are attacking the arrogance of those that make up the academic workforce. Sure they are important. So are the farmers so we can eat, the doctors so we can be healthy, the police so we can be safe, the manufacturwers of electronics so we can be entertained, the manufascturers of shoes so we can not go barefoot.
> 
> People opt to be teachers, farmers, police, electronics manufacturers, doctors, shoe manufacturers.
> 
> Yet, for some reason, the teachers feel that they should be put on a pedestal for choosing their profession.
> 
> Ironically, they all seem to say they do it ONLY becuase they care about the better good for society...but the minute they need to do what is necessry for the good of society from a financial standpoint, the balk, complain and say...."not us!"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense!
Click to expand...


OK.
Are you saying they dont balk at a cost cut that affects them?
Are you saying that others are not also important?
Are you saying they did not choose that trade by choice?

What are you saying is nonsense?


----------



## shintao

WillowTree said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I say no...it is not.  And the last few days certainly has helped prove my point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why? Cause we don't think teachers should be allowed to bankrupt states? You need to grow the fuck up.. As do all liberal whiney asses.
Click to expand...


LOL! So you are saying the state doesn't have an obligation to honor contracts it willing entered into? Why don't we shut your water off & listen to you whine.


----------



## Dr.Drock

chesswarsnow said:


> Sorry bout that,
> 
> 
> 1. Here's what pisses me off about the school system.
> 2. The superintendents get an outrageous salary, here and in most districts, sometimes more than the Presidents salary.
> 3. Here in Fort Worth, I think he gets around a half million a year, plus benefits out the ying yang, retirement benefits out the ying yang too.
> 4. All the school board members around here are filthy rich bastards for making school policy, thats not working.
> 5. The teachers can never be paid enough, its impossible, but the heads over them, stuff their pockets full to the brim, which hurts the whole school systems.
> 6. I say we throw out the whole thing and start anew, best idea ever!
> 7. If teachers were more like regular people, able to be fired, and didn't have union protections, then that would free up more *dead wood teachers*, which would help the children's futures.
> 8. The dumb ass TAS testing, is total bullshit, kids should get a report card, A's B's C's D's and F's should be what I'm seeing, I see shit for grades, there's bullshit for a grade now, and you either go to next grade or not.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> SirJamesofTexas



Great post, I had a little summer job at my high school when i went there and even I knew about the ridiculous pay for the lazy administrators and pencil pushers.

Our school got a levy passed then was broke a couple years later, you think any of them got canned?  Hell no


----------



## NYcarbineer

Jarhead said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look how quick the RWer fringers pounce and attack their fellow American WORKERS.
> 
> Yet they are quick to drop to their knees and service Big Business.
> 
> Uncanny!
> 
> *SMH*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spin, as is the norm for you MarcAtl.
> 
> We are attacking the arrogance of those that make up the academic workforce. Sure they are important. So are the farmers so we can eat, the doctors so we can be healthy, the police so we can be safe, the manufacturwers of electronics so we can be entertained, the manufascturers of shoes so we can not go barefoot.
> 
> People opt to be teachers, farmers, police, electronics manufacturers, doctors, shoe manufacturers.
> 
> Yet, for some reason, the teachers feel that they should be put on a pedestal for choosing their profession.
> 
> Ironically, they all seem to say they do it ONLY becuase they care about the better good for society...but the minute they need to do what is necessry for the good of society from a financial standpoint, the balk, complain and say...."not us!"
Click to expand...


Are teachers on average overpaid?


----------



## mdn2000

Public teachers suck, plan and simple, they spend too much time with our kids and waste all our money doing it, they rape our children and abuse our children and fail at teaching millions.


----------



## Stephanie

MarcATL said:


> Notice how the far RW fringers are quick to attack and label their fellow American workers that are PEACEFULLY protesting their mistreatment as "using the threat of violence."
> 
> Yet, when RWers came to public rallies with rifles and assault weapons they called it excersizing their Rights.
> 
> Interesting how that works in the Far RW minds...isn't it?



hahahaha, PEACEFUL. so you don''t have a problem with them shutting down the SCHOOLS they work in and still ask those parents to PAY THEIR SALARIES.? I guess we are all suppose to fweel sorry for them for spitting on us.
and they are now being MISTREATED...by being asked to do as the Obama told US we would all have to do, get some SKIN IN THE GAME.
I LAUGH


----------



## bodecea

SeaShadow said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should pay attention. It's recent news. Kerry on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then, you should have no problem linking that story.   I would like to see what happened to the teacher....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't a teacher it was a *substitute teacher*, substitutes are those that can't get a job teaching and are normally unqualified for the material but are warm bodies that fill in when the regular teacher is out.
> 
> 
> Chicago Board of Ed Sued for Teacher Allegedly Showing 'Brokeback Mountain' in Class - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com
> 
> 
> 
> Many try to paint this as a "teacher" that did it, however it was not the regular teacher and they conveniently spin it by leaving the "substitute" part out.
> 
> 
> >>>>
Click to expand...


Ah...the type of 'teacher' we'd get if they get rid of all the qualified, unionfied teachers.....your schools if some of the Righties get their way folks.   THEY WANT unqualified baby  sitters, it would appear.


----------



## Ravi

MarcATL said:


> Notice how the far RW fringers are quick to attack and label their fellow American workers that are PEACEFULLY protesting their mistreatment as "using the threat of violence."
> 
> Yet, when RWers came to public rallies with rifles and assault weapons they called it excersizing their Rights.
> 
> Interesting how that works in the Far RW minds...isn't it?


Yes.


----------



## MarcATL

Jarhead said:


> OK.
> Are you saying they dont balk at a cost cut that affects them?
> Are you saying that others are not also important?
> Are you saying they did not choose that trade by choice?
> 
> What are you saying is nonsense?



Your entire premise.

Its just another attack at the workers who are already shouldering the burden of tax breaks to the rich.

Its just another opportunity and excuse for the RW to bust up the unions.


----------



## Mr Natural

NYcarbineer said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look how quick the RWer fringers pounce and attack their fellow American WORKERS.
> 
> Yet they are quick to drop to their knees and service Big Business.
> 
> Uncanny!
> 
> *SMH*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spin, as is the norm for you MarcAtl.
> 
> We are attacking the arrogance of those that make up the academic workforce. Sure they are important. So are the farmers so we can eat, the doctors so we can be healthy, the police so we can be safe, the manufacturwers of electronics so we can be entertained, the manufascturers of shoes so we can not go barefoot.
> 
> People opt to be teachers, farmers, police, electronics manufacturers, doctors, shoe manufacturers.
> 
> Yet, for some reason, the teachers feel that they should be put on a pedestal for choosing their profession.
> 
> Ironically, they all seem to say they do it ONLY becuase they care about the better good for society...but the minute they need to do what is necessry for the good of society from a financial standpoint, the balk, complain and say...."not us!"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are teachers on average overpaid?
Click to expand...



No.

There's no such thing as an overpaid working person.


----------



## MarcATL

Stephanie said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Notice how the far RW fringers are quick to attack and label their fellow American workers that are PEACEFULLY protesting their mistreatment as "using the threat of violence."
> 
> Yet, when RWers came to public rallies with rifles and assault weapons they called it excersizing their Rights.
> 
> Interesting how that works in the Far RW minds...isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hahahaha, PEACEFUL. so you don''t have a problem with them shutting down the SCHOOLS they work in and still ask those parents to PAY THEIR SALARIES.? I guess we are all suppose to fweel sorry for them for spitting on us.
> and they are now being MISTREATED...by being asked to do as the Obama told US we would all have to do, get some SKIN IN THE GAME.
> I LAUGH
Click to expand...


Where is the violence?

Where is the threat of violence?

What a bunch of claptrap.

LOL


----------



## NYcarbineer

Jarhead said:


> [OK.
> Are you saying they dont balk at a cost cut that affects them?
> Are you saying that others are not also important?
> Are you saying they did not choose that trade by choice?
> 
> What are you saying is nonsense?



Yes, they do choose the profession.

And when conservatives get their way, and teachers are paid less, have fewer benefits, less job security, and fewer rights,

the best and brightest who might consider being teachers will be less likely to make that choice.

That is the market you're talking about.  Do you really want FEWER good teachers in this country?  Is that a key ingredient in assuring a better future for this country?


----------



## chesswarsnow

Sorry bout that,


1. You guys put too much blame on the teachers, when its the source.
2. *School Boards Districts*.



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


----------



## shintao

WillowTree said:


> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The unions just don't understand math.
> 
> State is going broke. Thus....
> 
> 1- Either cut a little bit for everyone
> 2- Or cut everything for some
> 
> Aren't liberals utopian? Best for all, right? They'd rather see some get fired than everyone give up just a little bit.
> 
> 
> OH WAIT I forgot liberals have option #3- Force by threat of violence more money out of our pockets to give them what they are entitled to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you watch the goings on when UPS struck years ago.. the unions declared a victory but thousands of them lost their jobs.
Click to expand...


Yep, you can double up the kids in classrooms and save 50%. 

Of course if the Unions decide to back the teacher unions, there will be thousands of private sector people lose their jobs. When the Union operator of a boiler in a cannery walks off the job, the whole cannery gets shut down. You have to be state certified to run a boiler, so a lot of luck with finding a scab to replace him. There are thousands of Union members in one of a kind specialties like this scenario. School mechanics for buses, air conditions & heaters, etc.


----------



## Stephanie

MarcATL said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Notice how the far RW fringers are quick to attack and label their fellow American workers that are PEACEFULLY protesting their mistreatment as "using the threat of violence."
> 
> Yet, when RWers came to public rallies with rifles and assault weapons they called it excersizing their Rights.
> 
> Interesting how that works in the Far RW minds...isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hahahaha, PEACEFUL. so you don''t have a problem with them shutting down the SCHOOLS they work in and still ask those parents to PAY THEIR SALARIES.? I guess we are all suppose to fweel sorry for them for spitting on us.
> and they are now being MISTREATED...by being asked to do as the Obama told US we would all have to do, get some SKIN IN THE GAME.
> I LAUGH
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where is the violence?
> 
> Where is the threat of violence?
> 
> What a bunch of claptrap.
> 
> LOL
Click to expand...


what the hell are you babbling about. And I notice you didn't RESPOND to the rest of my post. you picked out that one little thing to rant about, when there was no say there was VIOLENCE. oh well, carry on, I guess.


----------



## shintao

chesswarsnow said:


> Sorry bout that,
> 
> 
> 1. You guys put too much blame on the teachers, when its the source.
> 2. *School Boards Districts*.
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> SirJamesofTexas



I would think the source is the governor attempting to break up Unions, after squandering the states money and acting fiscally irresponsible.


----------



## Wicked Jester

bodecea said:


> I have many teachers in my family, both of my Grandmothers were teachers and of my father's family 3 out of 4 were teachers and out of my generation, 6 out of 14 are teachers with another 3 being nurses...and 2 firefighters.  And then 2 of us military.   We have public service in our bloodline.
> 
> And it is amazing to watch how in the last 20 years how teaching has come to be so denigrated.   Why do we wonder at how we compare with other countries and cultures that respect education and educators?


Could it possibly be that it's because in the last twenty years more students are failing at an alarming rate. That teachers are proving to be more inept at an alarming rate. That the unions fight tooth and nail to prevent lousy teachers from being shitcanned. That the more money from taxpayers being used to supplement union benefits is causing less money to go into the classrooms?

But I guess it's all the parents fault. at least that's what the teachers and their corrupt unions try to blame it all on. Surely they have nothing to do with it.

Fact is, Bad parenting is responsible. Lousy teachers are responsible. Unions protecting lousy teachers are responsible.


----------



## MarcATL

Stephanie said:


> what the hell are you babbling about. And I notice you didn't RESPOND to the rest of my post. you picked out that one little thing to rant about, when there was no say there was VIOLENCE. oh well, carry on, I guess.



That's what I thought...

Toodleloo!


----------



## Dr.Drock

Wicked Jester said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have many teachers in my family, both of my Grandmothers were teachers and of my father's family 3 out of 4 were teachers and out of my generation, 6 out of 14 are teachers with another 3 being nurses...and 2 firefighters.  And then 2 of us military.   We have public service in our bloodline.
> 
> And it is amazing to watch how in the last 20 years how teaching has come to be so denigrated.   Why do we wonder at how we compare with other countries and cultures that respect education and educators?
> 
> 
> 
> Could it possibly be that it's because in the last twenty years more students are failing at an alarming rate. That teachers are proving to be more inept at an alarming rate. That the unions fight tooth and nail to prevent lousy teachers from being shitcanned. That the more money from taxpayers being used to supplement union benefits is causing less money to go into the classrooms?
> 
> But I guess it's all the parents fault. at least that's what the teachers and their corrupt unions try to blame it all on. Surely they have nothing to do with it.
> 
> Fact is, Bad parenting is responsible. Lousy teachers are responsible. Unions protecting lousy teachers are responsible.
Click to expand...


I find the education system more at fault.   The department of education combined with the union and other factors.  It's the parents responsibility to stress the importance of education, but it's not their responsibility to teach them in a scholarly manner.  A parent can be a good parent and either not know enough or not know how to teach their kid math, history etc.


----------



## WillowTree

shintao said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I say no...it is not.  And the last few days certainly has helped prove my point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why? Cause we don't think teachers should be allowed to bankrupt states? You need to grow the fuck up.. As do all liberal whiney asses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL! So you are saying the state doesn't have an obligation to honor contracts it willing entered into? Why don't we shut your water off & listen to you whine.
Click to expand...


I guess they could honor those contracts after they've laid off 5,000 or so teachers, that the road you want to go down?


----------



## bodecea

Stephanie said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Notice how the far RW fringers are quick to attack and label their fellow American workers that are PEACEFULLY protesting their mistreatment as "using the threat of violence."
> 
> Yet, when RWers came to public rallies with rifles and assault weapons they called it excersizing their Rights.
> 
> Interesting how that works in the Far RW minds...isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hahahaha, PEACEFUL. so you don''t have a problem with them shutting down the SCHOOLS they work in and still ask those parents to PAY THEIR SALARIES.? I guess we are all suppose to fweel sorry for them for spitting on us.
> and they are now being MISTREATED...by being asked to do as the Obama told US we would all have to do, get some SKIN IN THE GAME.
> I LAUGH
Click to expand...


You want them to bend over and take whatever the Governor does to them.   Talk about spitting at others.   We know how you feel about teachers Stephanie....I bet you are a "joy" to teach.....of course, it is the teachers' fault you came out so uneducated, isn't it?


----------



## bodecea

WillowTree said:


> shintao said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why? Cause we don't think teachers should be allowed to bankrupt states? You need to grow the fuck up.. As do all liberal whiney asses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL! So you are saying the state doesn't have an obligation to honor contracts it willing entered into? Why don't we shut your water off & listen to you whine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess they could honor those contracts after they've laid off 5,000 or so teachers, that the road you want to go down?
Click to expand...


The Governor should do that very thing.   Lay off 5000 teachers.   That will get everyone's attention.  Classes of 50 or more.   Less supervision.   Less learning.   That's what  you want anyways.


----------



## WillowTree

bodecea said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly are  you babbling about?   (Your teachers obviously were bad teachers)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should pay attention. It's recent news. Kerry on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then, you should have no problem linking that story.   I would like to see what happened to the teacher....
Click to expand...


google is your friend you lazy wench,, notice noone else questions the story except your lazy untaught ass?


----------



## MarcATL

Willow..you can't go around making absurd claims then flee when asked to substantiate it.

That's the M.O. of a lunatic fringer.

Is that what you are?


----------



## kwc57

Stephanie said:


> Why the hell should teachers be more RESPECTED than the kid who works in McDonalds.
> 
> Teaching is a noble profession, but they CHOSE to go into that feild. So that doesn't make them any better or more important the the rest of the people.
> 
> sheeesh.



Why the hell should soldiers/policemen/firemen be more RESPECTED than the kid who works in McDonalds.

Those are noble professions, but they CHOSE to go into that feild. So that doesn't make them any better or more important the the rest of the people.

sheeesh.

Moran!


----------



## Soggy in NOLA

bodecea said:


> I say no...it is not.  And the last few days certainly has helped prove my point.



Yes.  Teacher's unions, NO.


----------



## MarcATL

To answer the OP...no, the RW especially does not have any respect for this noble profession.

The continually seek to demonize and attack anyone in or around it.


----------



## Stephanie

MarcATL said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> what the hell are you babbling about. And I notice you didn't RESPOND to the rest of my post. you picked out that one little thing to rant about, when there was no say there was VIOLENCE. oh well, carry on, I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I thought...
> 
> Toodleloo!
Click to expand...


Just what I expected..

Tweedledee!


----------



## Wicked Jester

bodecea said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Notice how the far RW fringers are quick to attack and label their fellow American workers that are PEACEFULLY protesting their mistreatment as "using the threat of violence."
> 
> Yet, when RWers came to public rallies with rifles and assault weapons they called it excersizing their Rights.
> 
> Interesting how that works in the Far RW minds...isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hahahaha, PEACEFUL. so you don''t have a problem with them shutting down the SCHOOLS they work in and still ask those parents to PAY THEIR SALARIES.? I guess we are all suppose to fweel sorry for them for spitting on us.
> and they are now being MISTREATED...by being asked to do as the Obama told US we would all have to do, get some SKIN IN THE GAME.
> I LAUGH
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You want them to bend over and take whatever the Governor does to them.   Talk about spitting at others.   We know how you feel about teachers Stephanie....I bet you are a "joy" to teach.....of course, it is the teachers' fault you came out so uneducated, isn't it?
Click to expand...

And what is your excuse for coming out so uneducated?

Christ Butch, all your stupid ass can come up with is lame snarky lil' comments about other peoples educations...........Projecting is what you do best. Lord knows you don't have the ability to research for yourself. Don't have the ability to debate beyond one line snarky lil' comments. Must really suck for you to be such a miserable dolt all the time.


----------



## shintao

WillowTree said:


> shintao said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why? Cause we don't think teachers should be allowed to bankrupt states? You need to grow the fuck up.. As do all liberal whiney asses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL! So you are saying the state doesn't have an obligation to honor contracts it willing entered into? Why don't we shut your water off & listen to you whine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess they could honor those contracts after they've laid off 5,000 or so teachers, that the road you want to go down?
Click to expand...


Yes Willow, that is the road. If you can't aford your help, you lay them off.  The state could sell off property to meet their obligations like other states have done. This is blatant Union busting.


----------



## Jarhead

NYcarbineer said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look how quick the RWer fringers pounce and attack their fellow American WORKERS.
> 
> Yet they are quick to drop to their knees and service Big Business.
> 
> Uncanny!
> 
> *SMH*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spin, as is the norm for you MarcAtl.
> 
> We are attacking the arrogance of those that make up the academic workforce. Sure they are important. So are the farmers so we can eat, the doctors so we can be healthy, the police so we can be safe, the manufacturwers of electronics so we can be entertained, the manufascturers of shoes so we can not go barefoot.
> 
> People opt to be teachers, farmers, police, electronics manufacturers, doctors, shoe manufacturers.
> 
> Yet, for some reason, the teachers feel that they should be put on a pedestal for choosing their profession.
> 
> Ironically, they all seem to say they do it ONLY becuase they care about the better good for society...but the minute they need to do what is necessry for the good of society from a financial standpoint, the balk, complain and say...."not us!"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are teachers on average overpaid?
Click to expand...


Here on Long Island NY....

Work year....... 180 days
Mandatory hours to be on school premises.....8AM-4PM
Mandatory schedule.......42 minute lunch break.....42 mninute administrative break (can be used to grade exams or sit in teachers lounge)
Permission by contract.....after 4PM a teacher may private tutor at any cost and do so with students in their class or any student from any school
Going Rate per hour for tutoring.....$60
Salary for teacher with 15 years tenure (usually age 37).....90K
Medical coverage....100% paid family plan including dental and optical
Pension....100% contribution by the town

Overpaid?

Certainly not underpaid


----------



## bodecea

Wicked Jester said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have many teachers in my family, both of my Grandmothers were teachers and of my father's family 3 out of 4 were teachers and out of my generation, 6 out of 14 are teachers with another 3 being nurses...and 2 firefighters.  And then 2 of us military.   We have public service in our bloodline.
> 
> And it is amazing to watch how in the last 20 years how teaching has come to be so denigrated.   Why do we wonder at how we compare with other countries and cultures that respect education and educators?
> 
> 
> 
> Could it possibly be that it's because in the last twenty years more students are failing at an alarming rate. That teachers are proving to be more inept at an alarming rate. That the unions fight tooth and nail to prevent lousy teachers from being shitcanned. That the more money from taxpayers being used to supplement union benefits is causing less money to go into the classrooms?
> 
> But I guess it's all the parents fault. at least that's what the teachers and their corrupt unions try to blame it all on. Surely they have nothing to do with it.
> 
> Fact is, Bad parenting is responsible. Lousy teachers are responsible. Unions protecting lousy teachers are responsible.
Click to expand...


Teachers require MORE education than they did over 20 years ago.   Teachers require MORE credentialling than they did over 20 years ago.   Teachers require MORE inserving than they did 20 years ago.

What the students expected to do?   Unfortunately, students today expect to be Entertained, NOT Educated.  They are passive and don't take an active part in their own education...and their parents expect teachers to be babysitters.  Parents who tell teachers that their kids are the schools' problem from 8-3.   Parents who put schools on caller block.  Parents who never show up for conferences.   Parents who sue schools at the drop of a hat.  Who do you think kids learn from MORE?


----------



## kwc57

xsited1 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I say no...it is not.  And the last few days certainly has helped prove my point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously teaching is a respected profession in this country.  However, I believe there is more to your post than meets the eye.
> 
> Please forgive me if I am wrong, but I don't believe you can separate teaching and a teacher being a member of a union.  They are obviously two completely different things.  As I've mentioned before, I know dozens of private school teachers that are fantastic teachers and none of them are part of a union.  If a teacher wants to be a member of a union, no problem, but not at the expense of doing their primary job.  (For example, taking sick days and using students for their own gain is irresponsible IMO.)  I'm still unsure as to why teacher unions are so important.  Do teachers really have it that bad that they need to pay union dues for representation that they cannot get themselves?
Click to expand...


I have great respect for the teaching profession.  I've had a number of family members in the profession who are now retired.  You ask if teachers really have it that bad.  Look at my link below and you tell me.  In Oklahoma, a teacher with 25+ years who has a PhD makes a whopping minimum of $46,000 per year.  They only make that much because of their union bargaining for them.  Unfortunately, since school funding is usually so low, these teachers have to dig into their own pocket for supplies for their classes.

Teacher Salary


----------



## bodecea

Jarhead said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> Spin, as is the norm for you MarcAtl.
> 
> We are attacking the arrogance of those that make up the academic workforce. Sure they are important. So are the farmers so we can eat, the doctors so we can be healthy, the police so we can be safe, the manufacturwers of electronics so we can be entertained, the manufascturers of shoes so we can not go barefoot.
> 
> People opt to be teachers, farmers, police, electronics manufacturers, doctors, shoe manufacturers.
> 
> Yet, for some reason, the teachers feel that they should be put on a pedestal for choosing their profession.
> 
> Ironically, they all seem to say they do it ONLY becuase they care about the better good for society...but the minute they need to do what is necessry for the good of society from a financial standpoint, the balk, complain and say...."not us!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are teachers on average overpaid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here on Long Island NY....
> 
> Work year....... 180 days
> Mandatory hours to be on school premises.....8AM-4PM
> Mandatory schedule.......42 minute lunch break.....42 mninute administrative break (can be used to grade exams or sit in teachers lounge)
> Permission by contract.....after 4PM a teacher may private tutor at any cost and do so with students in their class or any student from any school
> Going Rate per hour for tutoring.....$60
> Salary for teacher with 15 years tenure (usually age 37).....90K
> Medical coverage....100% paid family plan including dental and optical
> Pension....100% contribution by the town
> 
> Overpaid?
> 
> Certainly not underpaid
Click to expand...


Now, list the salaries of other professionals in Long Island with comparable educations (Professional degrees of 5 years plus)


----------



## shintao

Wicked Jester said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> hahahaha, PEACEFUL. so you don''t have a problem with them shutting down the SCHOOLS they work in and still ask those parents to PAY THEIR SALARIES.? I guess we are all suppose to fweel sorry for them for spitting on us.
> and they are now being MISTREATED...by being asked to do as the Obama told US we would all have to do, get some SKIN IN THE GAME.
> I LAUGH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You want them to bend over and take whatever the Governor does to them.   Talk about spitting at others.   We know how you feel about teachers Stephanie....I bet you are a "joy" to teach.....of course, it is the teachers' fault you came out so uneducated, isn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And what is your excuse for coming out so uneducated?
> 
> Christ Butch, all your stupid ass can come up with is lame snarky lil' comments about other peoples educations...........Projecting is what you do best. Lord knows you don't have the ability to research for yourself. Don't have the ability to debate beyond one line snarky lil' comments. Must really suck for you to be such a miserable dolt all the time.
Click to expand...


You must be picking your ass again, to be so full of shit. If you are so uneducated you cannot debate the topic, why don't you go drool down in the romper room?


----------



## bodecea

shintao said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> You want them to bend over and take whatever the Governor does to them.   Talk about spitting at others.   We know how you feel about teachers Stephanie....I bet you are a "joy" to teach.....of course, it is the teachers' fault you came out so uneducated, isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> And what is your excuse for coming out so uneducated?
> 
> Christ Butch, all your stupid ass can come up with is lame snarky lil' comments about other peoples educations...........Projecting is what you do best. Lord knows you don't have the ability to research for yourself. Don't have the ability to debate beyond one line snarky lil' comments. Must really suck for you to be such a miserable dolt all the time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You must be picking your ass again, to be so full of shit. If you are so uneducated you cannot debate the topic, why don't you go drool down in the romper room?
Click to expand...



Don't blame him....blame his teachers.


----------



## Stephanie

kwc57 said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why the hell should teachers be more RESPECTED than the kid who works in McDonalds.
> 
> Teaching is a noble profession, but they CHOSE to go into that feild. So that doesn't make them any better or more important the the rest of the people.
> 
> sheeesh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why the hell should soldiers/policemen/firemen be more RESPECTED than the kid who works in McDonalds.
> 
> Those are noble professions, but they CHOSE to go into that feild. So that doesn't make them any better or more important the the rest of the people.
> 
> sheeesh.
> 
> 
> 
> Moran!
Click to expand...


you're a idiot. who said anything about any of the above, should be more respected?
To me the only one's who should be MORE RESPECTED are our military, as they are on the front lines to protect these pampered teachers rights to interrupt the children's schools to go protest for their own selves, the hell with the CHIIIILDREN.
but hey, your dumb rant got you a atta boy rep from MarcATL. so you done good I guess.


----------



## Jarhead

MarcATL said:


> To answer the OP...no, the RW especially does not have any respect for this noble profession.
> 
> The continually seek to demonize and attack anyone in or around it.



Interesting that you refer to it as a noble profession.
Is a nurse a noble profession?
Firefighter?
Military?
If someone applies their education to research and development to better technology in our soiciety...is that not a noble profession?
Is an attorney not noble if he or she assists those that have been wronged by someone else?
I rrecruit and help people find jobs. Is mine not a noble profession?

Why is a teacher deemed as "noble" and not a farmer who works 14 hour days so the people of this great lanmd can eat?


----------



## cutter

Those that can, Do. Those that can't, Teach.


----------



## Dr.Drock

kwc57 said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I say no...it is not.  And the last few days certainly has helped prove my point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously teaching is a respected profession in this country.  However, I believe there is more to your post than meets the eye.
> 
> Please forgive me if I am wrong, but I don't believe you can separate teaching and a teacher being a member of a union.  They are obviously two completely different things.  As I've mentioned before, I know dozens of private school teachers that are fantastic teachers and none of them are part of a union.  If a teacher wants to be a member of a union, no problem, but not at the expense of doing their primary job.  (For example, taking sick days and using students for their own gain is irresponsible IMO.)  I'm still unsure as to why teacher unions are so important.  Do teachers really have it that bad that they need to pay union dues for representation that they cannot get themselves?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have great respect for the teaching profession.  I've had a number of family members in the profession who are now retired.  You ask if teachers really have it that bad.  Look at my link below and you tell me.  In Oklahoma, a teacher with 25+ years who has a PhD makes a whopping minimum of $46,000 per year.  They only make that much because of their union bargaining for them.  Unfortunately, since school funding is usually so low, these teachers have to dig into their own pocket for supplies for their classes.
> 
> Teacher Salary
Click to expand...


Why the assumption that it'd be under $46,000 without the union?


----------



## chanel

Do you have any idea how many threats and bogus accusations high school teachers have to deal with? Without a union, any punk who claims "she touched my privates" could have a teacher fired immediately. We had a teacher charged with simple assault for accidently hitting a kid while gesturing the kids to ¤ove during a fire drill. It was dropped - after a fucking year. We had a female teacher accused of groping a girls crotch when she grabbed a fallen paper on her lap. I was accused of making PRANK PHONE CALLS to a kid I hardly knew. That's why we pay union dues. It has little to do with our "outrageous salaries" (cough cough) and everything to do with job protection.

When was the last time someone at your workplace said "I know where you live"?

Yep it comes with the territory. But walk a week in someone else's shoes, and I guarantee teachers will no longer be referred to as "Public Enemy #1"


----------



## bodecea

cutter said:


> Those that can, Do. Those that can't, Teach.



If that's not the motto of the Current Republican Party...it should be.


----------



## chanel

Do you have any idea how many threats and bogus accusations high school teachers have to deal with? Without a union, any punk who claims "she touched my privates" could have a teacher fired immediately. We had a teacher charged with simple assault for accidently hitting a kid while gesturing the kids to ¤ove during a fire drill. It was dropped - after a fucking year. We had a female teacher accused of groping a girls crotch when she grabbed a fallen paper on her lap. I was accused of making PRANK PHONE CALLS to a kid I hardly knew. That's why we pay union dues. It has little to do with our "outrageous salaries" (cough cough) and everything to do with job protection.

When was the last time someone at your workplace said "I know where you live"?

Yep it comes with the territory. But walk a week in someone else's shoes, and I guarantee teachers will no longer be referred to as "Public Enemy #1"


----------



## Dr.Drock

chanel said:


> Do you have any idea how many threats and bogus accusations high school teachers have to deal with? Without a union, any punk who claims "she touched my privates" could have a teacher fired immediately. We had a teacher charged with simple assault for accidently hitting a kid while gesturing the kids to ¤ove during a fire drill. It was dropped - after a fucking year. We had a female teacher accused of groping a girls crotch when she grabbed a fallen paper on her lap. I was accused of making PRANK PHONE CALLS to a kid I hardly knew. That's why we pay union dues. It has little to do with our "outrageous salaries" (cough cough) and everything to do with job protection.
> 
> When was the last time someone at your workplace said "I know where you live"?
> 
> Yep it comes with the territory. But walk a week in someone else's shoes, and I guarantee teachers will no longer be referred to as "Public Enemy #1"



Rather than paying union dues couldn't you pay a lawyer to do the exact same thing and get a lot more personal 1 on 1 help?

Most teachers don't have that bad luck and are often paying union dues for nothing.


----------



## WillowTree

Real-Time in Wisconsin Capitol: Leveraging Kids for Dem Dirty Work Updated: Dems Found, Flash Rally In IL | RedState


----------



## WorldWatcher

kwc57 said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I say no...it is not.  And the last few days certainly has helped prove my point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously teaching is a respected profession in this country.  However, I believe there is more to your post than meets the eye.
> 
> Please forgive me if I am wrong, but I don't believe you can separate teaching and a teacher being a member of a union.  They are obviously two completely different things.  As I've mentioned before, I know dozens of private school teachers that are fantastic teachers and none of them are part of a union.  If a teacher wants to be a member of a union, no problem, but not at the expense of doing their primary job.  (For example, taking sick days and using students for their own gain is irresponsible IMO.)  I'm still unsure as to why teacher unions are so important.  Do teachers really have it that bad that they need to pay union dues for representation that they cannot get themselves?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have great respect for the teaching profession.  I've had a number of family members in the profession who are now retired.  You ask if teachers really have it that bad.  Look at my link below and you tell me.  In Oklahoma, a teacher with 25+ years who has a PhD makes a whopping minimum of $46,000 per year.  They only make that much because of their union bargaining for them.  Unfortunately, since school funding is usually so low, these teachers have to dig into their own pocket for supplies for their classes.
> 
> Teacher Salary
Click to expand...



Actually just a technical correction KWC, that link does not show the maximum a teacher in Oklahoma can make, what it says is...

"State Minimum Teacher Salary Schedule
Beginning 2010-2011
70 O.S. § 18-114.12
Beginning with the 2010-2011 school year, teachers in the public schools of Oklahoma shall receive in salary and/or fringe benefits not less than the amount specified in the following schedule. When determining minimum salary, fringe benefits shall mean only the employee's share of retirement, if paid by the district. "​


That sets the minimum that a teacher can make under those conditions, not the maximum.

For example here is the salary schedule for Oklahoma City Public Schools with higher compensation then what you link to especially since retirements, medical, and insurance is provided in addition to the salary stated.



>>>>


----------



## Wicked Jester

bodecea said:


> shintao said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> And what is your excuse for coming out so uneducated?
> 
> Christ Butch, all your stupid ass can come up with is lame snarky lil' comments about other peoples educations...........Projecting is what you do best. Lord knows you don't have the ability to research for yourself. Don't have the ability to debate beyond one line snarky lil' comments. Must really suck for you to be such a miserable dolt all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You must be picking your ass again, to be so full of shit. If you are so uneducated you cannot debate the topic, why don't you go drool down in the romper room?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Don't blame him....blame his teachers.
Click to expand...

LMAO!

Thanks for further proving my point......Fact is, i'd bury in you on an IQ test.....But you keep projecting. It only further shows your glaring weaknesses.


----------



## Dr.Drock

cutter said:


> Those that can, Do. Those that can't, Teach.



One of the dumbest assumptions that's out there as a normal perspective (no offense).


Most of my business professors in college were retired successful businessmen who taught because they wanted to.  They could've stayed in the private sector and made more money or been on a golf course.

I'm sure this is the same for many teaching areas and levels of teaching.


----------



## bodecea

chanel said:


> Do you have any idea how many threats and bogus accusations high school teachers have to deal with? Without a union, any punk who claims "she touched my privates" could have a teacher fired immediately. We had a teacher charged with simple assault for accidently hitting a kid while gesturing the kids to ¤ove during a fire drill. It was dropped - after a fucking year. We had a female teacher accused of groping a girls crotch when she grabbed a fallen paper on her lap. I was accused of making PRANK PHONE CALLS to a kid I hardly knew. That's why we pay union dues. It has little to do with our "outrageous salaries" (cough cough) and everything to do with job protection.
> 
> When was the last time someone at your workplace said "I know where you live"?
> 
> Yep it comes with the territory. But walk a week in someone else's shoes, and I guarantee teachers will no longer be referred to as "Public Enemy #1"



I hear you Chanel...I've already shared my aunt's horror story.   Without the union INSISTING on a mediator, her 20+ year career as a teacher would have been over because the district was willing to roll over for that boy's parents.


----------



## Jarhead

bodecea said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are teachers on average overpaid?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here on Long Island NY....
> 
> Work year....... 180 days
> Mandatory hours to be on school premises.....8AM-4PM
> Mandatory schedule.......42 minute lunch break.....42 mninute administrative break (can be used to grade exams or sit in teachers lounge)
> Permission by contract.....after 4PM a teacher may private tutor at any cost and do so with students in their class or any student from any school
> Going Rate per hour for tutoring.....$60
> Salary for teacher with 15 years tenure (usually age 37).....90K
> Medical coverage....100% paid family plan including dental and optical
> Pension....100% contribution by the town
> 
> Overpaid?
> 
> Certainly not underpaid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now, list the salaries of other professionals in Long Island with comparable educations (Professional degrees of 5 years plus)
Click to expand...


Comnpare apples to apples.
Lets go the other way.....

Most people work 230 days.....50 days more
Most people in my area with 5 year plus degrees work 8-6.....2 hours more a day...10 hours a week....500 hours a year.....or about the equivalent of about another 45 days based on a teachers work day.

So the others work the equivalent to about 275 days compared to 180 days of teachers.

Now, putting aside the "toll" on those working 275 days compared to working 180 days....

180 days is to 90K a year is equal; to about 137K......which for an attorney who is not partenr is on target.....for an accountant...on target

And again....that is taking two things out of the formula...the toll of 275 days compared to 180 days.....and the fact that both teaqchers and accountants opt to choose their profession.

Teachers are not underpaid.


----------



## Dot Com

MarcATL said:


> Notice how the far RW fringers are quick to attack and label their fellow American workers that are PEACEFULLY protesting their mistreatment as "using the threat of violence."
> 
> Yet, when RWers came to public rallies with rifles and assault weapons they called it excersizing their Rights.
> 
> Interesting how that works in the Far RW minds...isn't it?



Raygun musta told them that education was evil. No wonder they're always trying to de-fund the Dept of Education. Wonder how many of the RW-ranters on this thread were home schooled?


----------



## bodecea

Dr.Drock said:


> cutter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those that can, Do. Those that can't, Teach.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the dumbest assumptions that's out there as a normal perspective (no offense).
> 
> 
> Most of my business professors in college were retired successful businessmen who taught because they wanted to.  They could've stayed in the private sector and made more money or been on a golf course.
> 
> I'm sure this is the same for many teaching areas and levels of teaching.
Click to expand...


Many are ex-military.


----------



## bodecea

Jarhead said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here on Long Island NY....
> 
> Work year....... 180 days
> Mandatory hours to be on school premises.....8AM-4PM
> Mandatory schedule.......42 minute lunch break.....42 mninute administrative break (can be used to grade exams or sit in teachers lounge)
> Permission by contract.....after 4PM a teacher may private tutor at any cost and do so with students in their class or any student from any school
> Going Rate per hour for tutoring.....$60
> Salary for teacher with 15 years tenure (usually age 37).....90K
> Medical coverage....100% paid family plan including dental and optical
> Pension....100% contribution by the town
> 
> Overpaid?
> 
> Certainly not underpaid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, list the salaries of other professionals in Long Island with comparable educations (Professional degrees of 5 years plus)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Comnpare apples to apples.
> Lets go the other way.....
> 
> Most people work 230 days.....50 days more
> Most people in my area with 5 year plus degrees work 8-6.....2 hours more a day...10 hours a week....500 hours a year.....or about the equivalent of about another 45 days based on a teachers work day.
> 
> So the others work the equivalent to about 275 days compared to 180 days of teachers.
> 
> Now, putting aside the "toll" on those working 275 days compared to working 180 days....
> 
> 180 days is to 90K a year is equal; to about 137K......which for an attorney who is not partenr is on target.....for an accountant...on target
> 
> And again....that is taking two things out of the formula...the toll of 275 days compared to 180 days.....and the fact that both teaqchers and accountants opt to choose their profession.
> 
> Teachers are not underpaid.
Click to expand...


I notice that you did not provide those figures.   That bad, eh?


----------



## BenNatuf

bodecea said:


> I say no...it is not.  And the last few days certainly has helped prove my point.


It was before Unions got involved.  Now its just another loud whinny group of malcontented entitlists.


----------



## Dr.Drock

bodecea said:


> Dr.Drock said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cutter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those that can, Do. Those that can't, Teach.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the dumbest assumptions that's out there as a normal perspective (no offense).
> 
> 
> Most of my business professors in college were retired successful businessmen who taught because they wanted to.  They could've stayed in the private sector and made more money or been on a golf course.
> 
> I'm sure this is the same for many teaching areas and levels of teaching.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many are ex-military.
Click to expand...


My history professor in college was like a 40 year military veteran who said "I'm going to teach until the doctor tells me I can't anymore."  He was a GREAT teacher who I'll never forget.

But I'm sure he was only teaching because he got booted out of the military and couldn't find work elsewhere..........................


----------



## California Girl

WillowTree said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> How would you like it if all the doctors and nurses went on strike? Huh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry...you seem to be under the impression that that has not happened before.   It does.  I blame your teachers for not teaching you how to research an assertion before making it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not in Florida. We are a right to work state and Nurses cannot legally strike. Nurses care about their patients. Evidently teachers don't give a fuck about their kids otherwise they'd have their asses in the classroon teaching.
Click to expand...


You're lumping individuals into a group. They aren't. There are many excellent teachers, there are many average teachers, there are a few shit teachers. And the majority care very much about their students. This is two separate issues - striking to protect your benefits - however, wrong - does not make anyone an uncaring or bad teacher.


----------



## bodecea

Wicked Jester said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shintao said:
> 
> 
> 
> You must be picking your ass again, to be so full of shit. If you are so uneducated you cannot debate the topic, why don't you go drool down in the romper room?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't blame him....blame his teachers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LMAO!
> 
> Thanks for further proving my point......Fact is, i'd bury in you on an IQ test.....But you keep projecting. It only further shows your glaring weaknesses.
Click to expand...


See?   If Wicked had had a decent education, he would know that IQ is an indicator of intelligence, not of one's education...that's why children are given IQ tests in 3rd grade....but, again.   I blame his teachers.   Not his fault.   They didn't make it "fun" enough for him.


----------



## bodecea

Dr.Drock said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr.Drock said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the dumbest assumptions that's out there as a normal perspective (no offense).
> 
> 
> Most of my business professors in college were retired successful businessmen who taught because they wanted to.  They could've stayed in the private sector and made more money or been on a golf course.
> 
> I'm sure this is the same for many teaching areas and levels of teaching.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many are ex-military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My history professor in college was like a 40 year military veteran who said "I'm going to teach until the doctor tells me I can't anymore."  He was a GREAT teacher who I'll never forget.
> 
> But I'm sure he was only teaching because he got booted out of the military and couldn't find work elsewhere..........................
Click to expand...



And he hates kids, and he's only in it for the money..........


----------



## Tech_Esq

bodecea said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have many teachers in my family, both of my Grandmothers were teachers and of my father's family 3 out of 4 were teachers and out of my generation, 6 out of 14 are teachers with another 3 being nurses...and 2 firefighters.  And then 2 of us military.   We have public service in our bloodline.
> 
> And it is amazing to watch how in the last 20 years how teaching has come to be so denigrated.   Why do we wonder at how we compare with other countries and cultures that respect education and educators?
> 
> 
> 
> Could it possibly be that it's because in the last twenty years more students are failing at an alarming rate. That teachers are proving to be more inept at an alarming rate. That the unions fight tooth and nail to prevent lousy teachers from being shitcanned. That the more money from taxpayers being used to supplement union benefits is causing less money to go into the classrooms?
> 
> But I guess it's all the parents fault. at least that's what the teachers and their corrupt unions try to blame it all on. Surely they have nothing to do with it.
> 
> Fact is, Bad parenting is responsible. Lousy teachers are responsible. Unions protecting lousy teachers are responsible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Teachers require MORE education than they did over 20 years ago.   Teachers require MORE credentialling than they did over 20 years ago.   Teachers require MORE inserving than they did 20 years ago.
> 
> What the students expected to do?   Unfortunately, students today expect to be Entertained, NOT Educated.  They are passive and don't take an active part in their own education...and their parents expect teachers to be babysitters.  Parents who tell teachers that their kids are the schools' problem from 8-3.   Parents who put schools on caller block.  Parents who never show up for conferences.   Parents who sue schools at the drop of a hat.  Who do you think kids learn from MORE?
Click to expand...


We all require more and more education. Teachers are not special in that regard. I'm 46 and just got done attending even more classes for my job. I've got two certifications that have continuing education requirements and that after obtaining a double major in  college and a Juris Doctor degree. We all live in a new world. If you want to be a member of a profession, you better expect to keep learning all your life.

On your other note, I've seen the way that teachers routinely attempt to undermine parental authority. I've had kids in school for over 20 years now. I've seen it. And we have some of the best schools in the country.


----------



## BenNatuf

bodecea said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are teachers on average overpaid?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here on Long Island NY....
> 
> Work year....... 180 days
> Mandatory hours to be on school premises.....8AM-4PM
> Mandatory schedule.......42 minute lunch break.....42 mninute administrative break (can be used to grade exams or sit in teachers lounge)
> Permission by contract.....after 4PM a teacher may private tutor at any cost and do so with students in their class or any student from any school
> Going Rate per hour for tutoring.....$60
> Salary for teacher with 15 years tenure (usually age 37).....90K
> Medical coverage....100% paid family plan including dental and optical
> Pension....100% contribution by the town
> 
> Overpaid?
> 
> Certainly not underpaid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now, list the salaries of other professionals in Long Island with comparable educations (Professional degrees of 5 years plus)
Click to expand...

has absolutely nothing to do with demand, which is the determinant of wages.  If you spend 5 years and a bunch of money getting an education for the purpose of earning 30K, then you needed a little more than an education before you started (like a brain maybe).  

If you did that because you're a dedicated teacher and love the profession, then stop whining about the pay you knew you'd get before you ever started.


----------



## Stephanie

bodecea said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't blame him....blame his teachers.
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!
> 
> Thanks for further proving my point......Fact is, i'd bury in you on an IQ test.....But you keep projecting. It only further shows your glaring weaknesses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See?   If Wicked had had a decent education, he would know that IQ is an indicator of intelligence, not of one's education...that's why children are given IQ tests in 3rd grade....but, again.   I blame his teachers.   Not his fault.   They didn't make it "fun" enough for him.
Click to expand...


holy smokes,  you haven't wore that one insult on others edumacations out yet?


----------



## bucs90

bodecea said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't blame him....blame his teachers.
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!
> 
> Thanks for further proving my point......Fact is, i'd bury in you on an IQ test.....But you keep projecting. It only further shows your glaring weaknesses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See?   If Wicked had had a decent education, he would know that IQ is an indicator of intelligence, not of one's education...that's why children are given IQ tests in 3rd grade....but, again.   I blame his teachers.   Not his fault.   They didn't make it "fun" enough for him.
Click to expand...


How can YOU comment one someone else's low IQ?

You didn't know police background checks DQ'ed people for drug use and associations with terrorists.

And on this very thread, YOU were confused when I said taxes are taken by threat of violence.

You have no place to question another's IQ.


----------



## kwc57

Dr.Drock said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously teaching is a respected profession in this country.  However, I believe there is more to your post than meets the eye.
> 
> Please forgive me if I am wrong, but I don't believe you can separate teaching and a teacher being a member of a union.  They are obviously two completely different things.  As I've mentioned before, I know dozens of private school teachers that are fantastic teachers and none of them are part of a union.  If a teacher wants to be a member of a union, no problem, but not at the expense of doing their primary job.  (For example, taking sick days and using students for their own gain is irresponsible IMO.)  I'm still unsure as to why teacher unions are so important.  Do teachers really have it that bad that they need to pay union dues for representation that they cannot get themselves?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have great respect for the teaching profession.  I've had a number of family members in the profession who are now retired.  You ask if teachers really have it that bad.  Look at my link below and you tell me.  In Oklahoma, a teacher with 25+ years who has a PhD makes a whopping minimum of $46,000 per year.  They only make that much because of their union bargaining for them.  Unfortunately, since school funding is usually so low, these teachers have to dig into their own pocket for supplies for their classes.
> 
> Teacher Salary
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why the assumption that it'd be under $46,000 without the union?
Click to expand...


Well, as I said, I had family in the teaching profession who were around before and after the union.  The can compare apples to apples and pay......even as poor as it is now......is better than it was.


----------



## Dr.Drock

kwc57 said:


> Dr.Drock said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have great respect for the teaching profession.  I've had a number of family members in the profession who are now retired.  You ask if teachers really have it that bad.  Look at my link below and you tell me.  In Oklahoma, a teacher with 25+ years who has a PhD makes a whopping minimum of $46,000 per year.  They only make that much because of their union bargaining for them.  Unfortunately, since school funding is usually so low, these teachers have to dig into their own pocket for supplies for their classes.
> 
> Teacher Salary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why the assumption that it'd be under $46,000 without the union?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, as I said, I had family in the teaching profession who were around before and after the union.  The can compare apples to apples and pay......even as poor as it is now......is better than it was.
Click to expand...


Right but things change with time and modernization as well, doesn't have to be a result of a union.  

I would think parents would want good teachers, as would administrators, as would students so that would cause good wages.  If a good teacher feels he/she is underpaid they'll go somewhere that pays them appropriately because their skills are in demand.


----------



## Harry Dresden

xsited1 said:


> (For example,* taking sick days *and using students for their own gain is irresponsible IMO.)  I'm still unsure as to why teacher unions are so important.  Do teachers really have it that bad that they need to pay union dues for representation that they cannot get themselves?



X....are you saying if said teacher has the flu they should come in anyway and infect the kids who then go home and infect their household?...just asking.....


----------



## Jarhead

bodecea said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, list the salaries of other professionals in Long Island with comparable educations (Professional degrees of 5 years plus)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comnpare apples to apples.
> Lets go the other way.....
> 
> Most people work 230 days.....50 days more
> Most people in my area with 5 year plus degrees work 8-6.....2 hours more a day...10 hours a week....500 hours a year.....or about the equivalent of about another 45 days based on a teachers work day.
> 
> So the others work the equivalent to about 275 days compared to 180 days of teachers.
> 
> Now, putting aside the "toll" on those working 275 days compared to working 180 days....
> 
> 180 days is to 90K a year is equal; to about 137K......which for an attorney who is not partenr is on target.....for an accountant...on target
> 
> And again....that is taking two things out of the formula...the toll of 275 days compared to 180 days.....and the fact that both teaqchers and accountants opt to choose their profession.
> 
> Teachers are not underpaid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I notice that you did not provide those figures.   That bad, eh?
Click to expand...


Long Island Schools

It mentions average salary for teacher as 75K and average span of tenure 12 years...
But average includes first year teachers.....so no doubt it confirms the numbers.


----------



## BenNatuf

California Girl said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry...you seem to be under the impression that that has not happened before.   It does.  I blame your teachers for not teaching you how to research an assertion before making it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not in Florida. We are a right to work state and Nurses cannot legally strike. Nurses care about their patients. Evidently teachers don't give a fuck about their kids otherwise they'd have their asses in the classroon teaching.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're lumping individuals into a group. They aren't. There are many excellent teachers, there are many average teachers, there are a few shit teachers. And the majority care very much about their students. This is two separate issues - striking to protect your benefits - however, wrong - does not make anyone an uncaring or bad teacher.
Click to expand...

Illegally striking to protest having to pay half of what everyone else does for better bennefits does.

They should all be fired.


----------



## Tech_Esq

Dot Com said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Notice how the far RW fringers are quick to attack and label their fellow American workers that are PEACEFULLY protesting their mistreatment as "using the threat of violence."
> 
> Yet, when RWers came to public rallies with rifles and assault weapons they called it excersizing their Rights.
> 
> Interesting how that works in the Far RW minds...isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Raygun musta told them that education was evil. No wonder they're always trying to de-fund the Dept of Education. Wonder how many of the RW-ranters on this thread were home schooled?
Click to expand...


The Department of Education has never educated a child in its 32 years of existence. It's just another bad idea of Jimmy Carter. We'd be better without it. His attempt to grow government by separating into whole new government agencies the old Department of HEW (Health, Education and Welfare).  A nice cost cutting measure would be to "streamline" that work force and re-assemble that old department. 

Maybe with less people, they'd think of less crap to do?  We can only hope.


----------



## bucs90

MarcATL said:


> Notice how the far RW fringers are quick to attack and label their fellow American workers that are PEACEFULLY protesting their mistreatment as "using the threat of violence."
> 
> Yet, when RWers came to public rallies with rifles and assault weapons they called it excersizing their Rights.
> 
> Interesting how that works in the Far RW minds...isn't it?



Marcy, the only way to continue the same union deals is to raise taxes. They can't sustain the union deals with the current budget.

ONLY 2 choices: Cut benefits, or raise taxes. Unions want taxes raised.

And like Bodecea, I must explain to you how taxes are collected:

Gov't passes involuntary tax hike.
Citizen must pay the tax.
If citizen doesn't pay the tax, gov't sends men with guns to gain compliance.
If citizen doesn't comply, men with guns will use force (aka violence if necessary) to gain compliance.

How is that concept so foreign to you? Do you lefties realize how the Soviets gained resources for their massive central government? By killing their citizens, forcefully confiscating their property.


----------



## Wicked Jester

chanel said:


> Do you have any idea how many threats and bogus accusations high school teachers have to deal with? Without a union, any punk who claims "she touched my privates" could have a teacher fired immediately. We had a teacher charged with simple assault for accidently hitting a kid while gesturing the kids to ¤ove during a fire drill. It was dropped - after a fucking year. We had a female teacher accused of groping a girls crotch when she grabbed a fallen paper on her lap. I was accused of making PRANK PHONE CALLS to a kid I hardly knew. That's why we pay union dues. It has little to do with our "outrageous salaries" (cough cough) and everything to do with job protection.
> 
> When was the last time someone at your workplace said "I know where you live"?
> 
> Yep it comes with the territory. But walk a week in someone else's shoes, and I guarantee teachers will no longer be referred to as "Public Enemy #1"


Kinda interesting that it now seems that about once a month nowadays there are teachers in public schools caught having sex with their minor students. Another one was caught just last week feeding her student Vodka and fucking him in the backseat of her SUV. And you wonder why there might be trust issues regarding teachers?

Simple solution for all you claim.......Do what our kids private school does and put cameras with web access in every public classroom in this country. We have the ability at anytime to log on and see and hear exactly what is going on in the classrooms at any given time.......The students know this, the teachers know this. They have but one choice, they do what they are supposed to be doing while there. The teachers teach in a quality way, the students learn in a quality. Anything else, they suffer the consequences.

Those teachers are well paid. They work year round. None of this 3 month off BS. When not in class teaching while the kids are out on break for summer, Xmas or easter, they are required to attend classes pertaining to the subjects they teach. They are required to test twice a year on the classes they teach. They are required to attend training on keeping control of their classrooms. They are required to attend classes on how to conduct themselves amongst students.......Basically, they are paid well to do their jobs as expected. And they do a damn good job at it.


----------



## BenNatuf

bucs90 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!
> 
> Thanks for further proving my point......Fact is, i'd bury in you on an IQ test.....But you keep projecting. It only further shows your glaring weaknesses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See?   If Wicked had had a decent education, he would know that IQ is an indicator of intelligence, not of one's education...that's why children are given IQ tests in 3rd grade....but, again.   I blame his teachers.   Not his fault.   They didn't make it "fun" enough for him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can YOU comment one someone else's low IQ?
> 
> You didn't know police background checks DQ'ed people for drug use and associations with terrorists.
> 
> And on this very thread, YOU were confused when I said taxes are taken by threat of violence.
> 
> You have no place to question another's IQ.
Click to expand...

c'mon, it's Bode.  She probobly thinks IQ means "I quote".


----------



## uscitizen

Babysitters err teachers are not well respected among the less educated.


----------



## Harry Dresden

bodecea said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Teaching is respected.
> 
> Unionizing in order to manipulate the political system for excessive benefits and pensions is not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Teachers ARE Unions.  Unions ARE Teachers.
> 
> If teachers WERE respected by kids, parents, America...do you think unions would be necessary?
Click to expand...


years ago Teachers were respected more than now....and they still had Unions.....


----------



## Wicked Jester

Stephanie said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!
> 
> Thanks for further proving my point......Fact is, i'd bury in you on an IQ test.....But you keep projecting. It only further shows your glaring weaknesses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See?   If Wicked had had a decent education, he would know that IQ is an indicator of intelligence, not of one's education...that's why children are given IQ tests in 3rd grade....but, again.   I blame his teachers.   Not his fault.   They didn't make it "fun" enough for him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> holy smokes,  you haven't wore that one insult on others edumacations out yet?
Click to expand...

That's all she has.....It's that one track mind syndrome she obviously suffers from.


----------



## WillowTree

Harry Dresden said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> (For example,* taking sick days *and using students for their own gain is irresponsible IMO.)  I'm still unsure as to why teacher unions are so important.  Do teachers really have it that bad that they need to pay union dues for representation that they cannot get themselves?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> X....are you saying if said teacher has the flu they should come in anyway and infect the kids who then go home and infect their household?...just asking.....
Click to expand...


Harry! Are you saying it's okay for the lying striking teacher cnut to call in sick when they aren't and then drag the children out into the streets to strike with them?? what kind of role model is that?


----------



## Jarhead

Jarhead said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here on Long Island NY....
> 
> Work year....... 180 days
> Mandatory hours to be on school premises.....8AM-4PM
> Mandatory schedule.......42 minute lunch break.....42 mninute administrative break (can be used to grade exams or sit in teachers lounge)
> Permission by contract.....after 4PM a teacher may private tutor at any cost and do so with students in their class or any student from any school
> Going Rate per hour for tutoring.....$60
> Salary for teacher with 15 years tenure (usually age 37).....90K
> Medical coverage....100% paid family plan including dental and optical
> Pension....100% contribution by the town
> 
> Overpaid?
> 
> Certainly not underpaid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, list the salaries of other professionals in Long Island with comparable educations (Professional degrees of 5 years plus)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Comnpare apples to apples.
> Lets go the other way.....
> 
> Most people work 230 days.....50 days more
> Most people in my area with 5 year plus degrees work 8-6.....2 hours more a day...10 hours a week....500 hours a year.....or about the equivalent of about another 45 days based on a teachers work day.
> 
> So the others work the equivalent to about 275 days compared to 180 days of teachers.
> 
> Now, putting aside the "toll" on those working 275 days compared to working 180 days....
> 
> 180 days is to 90K a year is equal; to about 137K......which for an attorney who is not partenr is on target.....for an accountant...on target
> 
> And again....that is taking two things out of the formula...the toll of 275 days compared to 180 days.....and the fact that both teaqchers and accountants opt to choose their profession.
> 
> Teachers are not underpaid.
Click to expand...


So?
No response?

Long Island Schools


----------



## Jarhead

The rhetoric holds no water.
Teahcers are well paid as I demonstrated. Respected. And actually have a very comfortable work schedule....with over 180 days off a year....and only 8 hour work days.
I find it selfish that they insist on being one group that is not affected by a recession and insist theoir entitlements be kept in tact.


----------



## Wicked Jester

WillowTree said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> (For example,* taking sick days *and using students for their own gain is irresponsible IMO.)  I'm still unsure as to why teacher unions are so important.  Do teachers really have it that bad that they need to pay union dues for representation that they cannot get themselves?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> X....are you saying if said teacher has the flu they should come in anyway and infect the kids who then go home and infect their household?...just asking.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Harry! Are you saying it's okay for the lying striking teacher cnut to call in sick when they aren't and then drag the children out into the streets to strike with them?? what kind of role model is that?
Click to expand...

Good point............What it does is teach those kids that it's ok to shirk on their responsibilities. To cause financial problems for parents who have to miss work at a loss of pay because the teachers aren't in the school teaching, thereby having the parent stress on daycare and whatnot at further expense to the parent. Like parents aren't already struggling to pay the bills nowadays.......And what are those dirtbag dem politicians who fled teaching those children?.....That it's perfectly fine for them to abandon their elected duties simply because they don't have the guts to come to the table and hammer out a compromise for the good of ALL citizens they represent. That it's perfectly OK to leave their citizens in the lurch by having a government that doesn't function.

This is going to end up being a disaster for these cronies. Wait and see.


----------



## bodecea

Jarhead said:


> The rhetoric holds no water.
> *Teahcers *are well paid as I demonstrated. Respected. And actually have a very comfortable work schedule....*with over 180 days off a year*....and *only 8 hour work days.*
> I find it selfish that they insist on being one group that is not affected by a recession and insist* theoir *entitlements be kept *in tact*.



I blame your teachers....not you.


----------



## Jarhead

bodecea said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rhetoric holds no water.
> *Teahcers *are well paid as I demonstrated. Respected. And actually have a very comfortable work schedule....*with over 180 days off a year*....and *only 8 hour work days.*
> I find it selfish that they insist on being one group that is not affected by a recession and insist* theoir *entitlements be kept *in tact*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I blame your teachers....not you.
Click to expand...


lol...
well done.
I blame my inability to type well and my laziness as it pertains to proofreading.

But putting the fun aside....do you see my point?


----------



## bodecea

WillowTree said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> (For example,* taking sick days *and using students for their own gain is irresponsible IMO.)  I'm still unsure as to why teacher unions are so important.  Do teachers really have it that bad that they need to pay union dues for representation that they cannot get themselves?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> X....are you saying if said teacher has the flu they should come in anyway and infect the kids who then go home and infect their household?...just asking.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Harry! Are you saying it's okay for the lying striking teacher *cnut*
Click to expand...



I blame your teachers, not you.



> to call in sick when they aren't and then drag the children out into the streets to strike with them?? what kind of role model is that?



Who dragged children out into the streets?


And what teachers are on strike?


----------



## bodecea

Jarhead said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rhetoric holds no water.
> *Teahcers *are well paid as I demonstrated. Respected. And actually have a very comfortable work schedule....*with over 180 days off a year*....and *only 8 hour work days.*
> I find it selfish that they insist on being one group that is not affected by a recession and insist* theoir *entitlements be kept *in tact*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I blame your teachers....not you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> lol...
> well done.
> I blame my inability to type well and my laziness as it pertains to proofreading.
> 
> But putting the fun aside....do you see my point?
Click to expand...


180 days off?   Are you sure you want to say that?

And I laugh at only an 8 hour work day for teachers.   I laugh very hard.


----------



## Jarhead

bodecea said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I blame your teachers....not you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol...
> well done.
> I blame my inability to type well and my laziness as it pertains to proofreading.
> 
> But putting the fun aside....do you see my point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 180 days off?   Are you sure you want to say that?
> 
> And I laugh at only an 8 hour work day for teachers.   I laugh very hard.
Click to expand...


school year is this year:

9-06-10 to 6-20-11

That is 9 months and 14 days or approximately 284 days
Less weekends during that span....80 days
Less the summer months NOT in that span.....81 days
Less 2 weeks Christmas Vacation.....10 days (not including weekends already calculated in)
Less 1 week winter break (Presidents week)....5 days
Less 1 week spring break.......5 days
Thanksgiving.....2 days
Memorial day....1 day
Martin Luther King Day....1 day

*365 minus 80 minus 81 minus 10 minus 5 minus 5 minus 2 minus 1 minus 1= 180 days*

Hours 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM.....8 hour day 

What is the issue here?

What is it that you are missing?


----------



## shintao

Wicked Jester said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> X....are you saying if said teacher has the flu they should come in anyway and infect the kids who then go home and infect their household?...just asking.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harry! Are you saying it's okay for the lying striking teacher cnut to call in sick when they aren't and then drag the children out into the streets to strike with them?? what kind of role model is that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good point............What it does is teach those kids that it's ok to shirk on their responsibilities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should teach them to stand up for their rights, and be a proud American Capitalist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To cause financial problems for parents who have to miss work at a loss of pay because the teachers aren't in the school teaching, thereby having the parent stress on daycare and whatnot at further expense to the parent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shame on that governor causing parents to hire a baby sitter. I guess they are seeing how their vote was instrumental in their own demise. They may put their children in private schools for their new baby sitter, and get some bang for their buck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like parents aren't already struggling to pay the bills nowadays.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well yes indeed! Just like those teachers the governor is attacking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And what are those dirtbag dem politicians who fled teaching those children?.....That it's perfectly fine for them to abandon their elected duties simply because they don't have the guts to come to the table and hammer out a compromise for the good of ALL citizens they represent. That it's perfectly OK to leave their citizens in the lurch by having a government that doesn't function.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, sounds like that dirt bag Palin who abandoned the Alaska citizens and left them in the lurch of a nonfunctional government. Tsk!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is going to end up being a disaster for these cronies. Wait and see.
Click to expand...


I think not, but we can wait and see alright.


----------



## Jarhead

FYI..

In NYS it is mandatory that the school have classes 180 days a year for the school to recioeve state funding.

180 days is the benchmark.

Why do you think such is made up?

It is factual as I demonstrated.

As I said...dont spew rhetoric....look at facts.


----------



## Skull Pilot

When we can produce students that can compete with the rest of the world again, maybe I'll respect so called educators.

We spend more money per student than most nations and we are behind.  Tell me why there is always an education budget crisis even though school budgets increase every year.

I'll tell you why, education is so administratively top heavy that most of the money goes to bureaucrats that don't teach, and teachers want free health insurance and free retirement benefits.


----------



## uscitizen

Jarhead said:


> The rhetoric holds no water.
> Teahcers are well paid as I demonstrated. Respected. And actually have a very comfortable work schedule....with over 180 days off a year....and only 8 hour work days.
> I find it selfish that they insist on being one group that is not affected by a recession and insist theoir entitlements be kept in tact.



I have 2 sisters that teach in colleges.
i KNOW they work till 11 or so a few nights a week grading papers and such.

During finals they work about 18 hours a day every day.


----------



## Jarhead

So Bodecea...

It seems you did not realize the work scherdule of a teacher was as it is.
You laughed at the hours I stated...which are fact...and you criticized the days working I stated which I proved to be fact.

So now that you realize that you were not well informed when you first started this debate....do you now see our side of the debate?

Or are you just a partisan jerk who will argue even when he sees the err of his thinking.


----------



## shintao

Jarhead said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol...
> well done.
> I blame my inability to type well and my laziness as it pertains to proofreading.
> 
> But putting the fun aside....do you see my point?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 180 days off?   Are you sure you want to say that?
> 
> And I laugh at only an 8 hour work day for teachers.   I laugh very hard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> school year is this year:
> 
> 9-06-10 to 6-20-11
> 
> That is 9 months and 14 days or approximately 284 days
> Less weekends during that span....80 days
> Less the summer months NOT in that span.....81 days
> Less 2 weeks Christmas Vacation.....10 days (not including weekends already calculated in)
> Less 1 week winter break (Presidents week)....5 days
> Less 1 week spring break.......5 days
> Thanksgiving.....2 days
> Memorial day....1 day
> Martin Luther King Day....1 day
> 
> *365 minus 80 minus 81 minus 10 minus 5 minus 5 minus 2 minus 1 minus 1= 180 days*
> 
> Hours 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM.....8 hour day
> 
> What is the issue here?
> 
> What is it that you are missing?
Click to expand...


Does that include teacher conferences, PTA duty's, sabbaticals to update education and certifications with the state?


----------



## rdean

bodecea said:


> I say no...it is not.  And the last few days certainly has helped prove my point.



When have conservatives respected education of any kind?  Oh, except "Bible Memorization".


----------



## Skull Pilot

Jarhead said:


> So Bodecea...
> Or are you just a partisan jerk who will argue even when he sees the err of his thinking.









OOOH OOOOOH I know that answer!!!


----------



## Jarhead

uscitizen said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rhetoric holds no water.
> Teahcers are well paid as I demonstrated. Respected. And actually have a very comfortable work schedule....with over 180 days off a year....and only 8 hour work days.
> I find it selfish that they insist on being one group that is not affected by a recession and insist theoir entitlements be kept in tact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have 2 sisters that teach in colleges.
> i KNOW they work till 11 or so a few nights a week grading papers and such.
> 
> During finals they work about 18 hours a day every day.
Click to expand...


If they are TA's, that is the price they pay.
If they are professors...they also only teach 3 courses a day...and get paid generous salaries.\

But we are talking about civil servant teachers here...
They work 8 hours a day 180 days a year....
Of that eight hours a day...they MUST offer extra help one hour...either 8-9 or 3-4
They have the other hour to grade papers....42 minutes mid day to grade papers....and 42 minute lunch


----------



## WorldWatcher

Jarhead said:


> So Bodecea...
> 
> It seems you did not realize the work scherdule of a teacher was as it is.
> You laughed at the hours I stated...which are fact...




Actually hours that you stated are "on campus hours" and not necessarily the fact of work hours.  They account for neither evenings grading papers, weekends doing lesson plans, evening parent/teacher conferences, evening school events, required professional development days, etc...


I write the contracts for a school district in Virginia, our scheduled student days are 180, however the teacher contract days are 200 and that doesn't include their required professional development during the summer.



>>>>


----------



## Jarhead

shintao said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 180 days off?   Are you sure you want to say that?
> 
> And I laugh at only an 8 hour work day for teachers.   I laugh very hard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> school year is this year:
> 
> 9-06-10 to 6-20-11
> 
> That is 9 months and 14 days or approximately 284 days
> Less weekends during that span....80 days
> Less the summer months NOT in that span.....81 days
> Less 2 weeks Christmas Vacation.....10 days (not including weekends already calculated in)
> Less 1 week winter break (Presidents week)....5 days
> Less 1 week spring break.......5 days
> Thanksgiving.....2 days
> Memorial day....1 day
> Martin Luther King Day....1 day
> 
> *365 minus 80 minus 81 minus 10 minus 5 minus 5 minus 2 minus 1 minus 1= 180 days*
> 
> Hours 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM.....8 hour day
> 
> What is the issue here?
> 
> What is it that you are missing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does that include teacher conferences, PTA duty's, sabbaticals to update education and certifications with the state?
Click to expand...


Open schopol night is one night a year.
Teacher conferences are from 3 to 4...15 minutes a parent....over a 2 week span....NEVER after 4
PTA duty is voluntary....just as parents arent paid to be part of PTA as well.
Sabbaticals to update education is the same as CLE for attorneys....CRE for brokers...etc..etc...something all of us have to do as it pertains to our career....and not get paid for it

Any other holes you would like to punch as opposed to saying...

"you know, I never really realized....it is not such as bad deal they have"


----------



## shintao

Skull Pilot said:


> When we can produce students that can compete with the rest of the world again, maybe I'll respect so called educators.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you don't respect parents. Tsk!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We spend more money per student than most nations and we are behind.  Tell me why there is always an education budget crisis even though school budgets increase every year.
> 
> 
> 
> Who said school budgets increase every year? That is ludicrous!! LOL!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'll tell you why, education is so administratively top heavy that most of the money goes to bureaucrats that don't teach, and teachers want free health insurance and free retirement benefits.
Click to expand...


Well yes, teachers want what they negotiate with employers. And it is not true their health coverage or retirement are free, those are part of their negotiated wages in the collective bargaining agreement.


----------



## Jarhead

SeaShadow said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Bodecea...
> 
> It seems you did not realize the work scherdule of a teacher was as it is.
> You laughed at the hours I stated...which are fact...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually hours that you stated are "on campus hours" and not necessarily the fact of work hours.  They account for neither evenings grading papers, weekends doing lesson plans, evening parent/teacher conferences, evening school events, required professional development days, etc...
> 
> 
> I write the contracts for a school district in Virginia, our scheduled student days are 180, however the teacher contract days are 200 and that doesn't include their required professional development during the summer.
> 
> 
> 
> >>>>
Click to expand...


Excuse me...

Apples to apples...

This was a comparison from several pages ago...comparing to other professionals.

Attorneys also take home work...as do accountants...as do many people in all sorts of business

They are paid for 2 hours a day to do no teaching work...one hour in middle of day and one hour at beginning or end of day.

If they need to take work home...so do many of us.....

I have had to take many a course to stay on top of my trade.....and yes, on my free time...but unlike teachers...i have to pay for the courses myself.....


They do not have a bad deal....AT ALL.


----------



## shintao

Jarhead said:


> shintao said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> school year is this year:
> 
> 9-06-10 to 6-20-11
> 
> That is 9 months and 14 days or approximately 284 days
> Less weekends during that span....80 days
> Less the summer months NOT in that span.....81 days
> Less 2 weeks Christmas Vacation.....10 days (not including weekends already calculated in)
> Less 1 week winter break (Presidents week)....5 days
> Less 1 week spring break.......5 days
> Thanksgiving.....2 days
> Memorial day....1 day
> Martin Luther King Day....1 day
> 
> *365 minus 80 minus 81 minus 10 minus 5 minus 5 minus 2 minus 1 minus 1= 180 days*
> 
> Hours 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM.....8 hour day
> 
> What is the issue here?
> 
> What is it that you are missing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does that include teacher conferences, PTA duty's, sabbaticals to update education and certifications with the state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Open schopol night is one night a year.
> Teacher conferences are from 3 to 4...15 minutes a parent....over a 2 week span....NEVER after 4
> PTA duty is voluntary....just as parents arent paid to be part of PTA as well.
> Sabbaticals to update education is the same as CLE for attorneys....CRE for brokers...etc..etc...something all of us have to do as it pertains to our career....and not get paid for it
> 
> Any other holes you would like to punch as opposed to saying...
> 
> "you know, I never really realized....it is not such as bad deal they have"
Click to expand...


I think they have a good deal, the one they negotiated and accepted. I am just saying teachers do more work in a year than most private sector workers, so just be honest about it. Saying they work 8 hour days is BS.


----------



## Jarhead

Look...

I am not saying teachers are overpaid by any means. They are paid very well and by no means are they looked down upon or not respected.

All I am saying is they have a good deal...one that is not much different than many we find in the private sector.

The rhetoric is just that....rhetoric....

Look at the facts and the numbers.....it is what it is.


----------



## Skull Pilot

Jarhead said:


> Look...
> 
> I am not saying teachers are overpaid by any means. They are paid very well and by no means are they looked down upon or not respected.
> 
> All I am saying is they have a good deal...one that is not much different than many we find in the private sector.
> 
> The rhetoric is just that....rhetoric....
> 
> Look at the facts and the numbers.....it is what it is.



When teachers can't produce students that can perform they are overpaid.

American students can't compete in the world and it's not because teachers aren't paid enough.


----------



## Jarhead

shintao said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shintao said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does that include teacher conferences, PTA duty's, sabbaticals to update education and certifications with the state?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Open schopol night is one night a year.
> Teacher conferences are from 3 to 4...15 minutes a parent....over a 2 week span....NEVER after 4
> PTA duty is voluntary....just as parents arent paid to be part of PTA as well.
> Sabbaticals to update education is the same as CLE for attorneys....CRE for brokers...etc..etc...something all of us have to do as it pertains to our career....and not get paid for it
> 
> Any other holes you would like to punch as opposed to saying...
> 
> "you know, I never really realized....it is not such as bad deal they have"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think they have a good deal, the one they negotiated and accepted. I am just saying teachers do more work in a year than most private sector workers, so just be honest about it. Saying they work 8 hour days is BS.
Click to expand...


And saying an attorney works 10 hours a day is BS too.
I was comparing the typical amount of time spent in the workplace.

And to say a teacher does more work than say...and attorney...is BS....they both work hard...and when hard times come, an attorney may have to take a cut in his/her income....just as a teacher may have to.

But the BIG difference is....a teacher gets a heck of a lot more down time creating a much better quality of life...


----------



## WorldWatcher

Jarhead said:


> SeaShadow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Bodecea...
> 
> It seems you did not realize the work scherdule of a teacher was as it is.
> You laughed at the hours I stated...which are fact...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually hours that you stated are "on campus hours" and not necessarily the fact of work hours.  They account for neither evenings grading papers, weekends doing lesson plans, evening parent/teacher conferences, evening school events, required professional development days, etc...
> 
> 
> I write the contracts for a school district in Virginia, our scheduled student days are 180, however the teacher contract days are 200 and that doesn't include their required professional development during the summer.
> 
> 
> 
> >>>>
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Excuse me...
> 
> Apples to apples...
> 
> This was a comparison from several pages ago...comparing to other professionals.
> 
> Attorneys also take home work...as do accountants...as do many people in all sorts of business
> 
> They are paid for 2 hours a day to do no teaching work...one hour in middle of day and one hour at beginning or end of day.
> 
> If they need to take work home...so do many of us.....
> 
> I have had to take many a course to stay on top of my trade.....and yes, on my free time...but unlike teachers...i have to pay for the courses myself.....
> 
> 
> They do not have a bad deal....AT ALL.
Click to expand...



1.  Teachers are not hourly employees, they are exempt employees under the FLSA as such they are paid to do a job, not by the hour.

2.  Attorney's and accountants bill their clients by the hours.

3.  Teachers in our division are required to pay for their own coursework just like you.



The fact that you try to disregard the extra hours that teachers must put in as part of their job requirement is irrelevant to the fact that they actually exist and are considered a factor in the compensation.

As an Oracle Information Systems Administrator I'm also an exempt employee under FLSA, doesn't matter if I do the job on 40 hours or 65 hours in a week, I get paid the same.  Just like a teacher.




I'm not here defending unions, not in one, never been in one, will likely never be in one.  However your minimization of time spent on task is not an honest evaluation of time worked.



>>>>


----------



## bodecea

Jarhead said:


> FYI..
> 
> In NYS it is mandatory that the school have classes 180 days a year for the school to recioeve state funding.
> 
> 180 days is the benchmark.
> 
> Why do you think such is made up?
> 
> It is factual as I demonstrated.
> 
> As I said...dont spew rhetoric....look at facts.



You said 180 days OFF.


----------



## bodecea

Skull Pilot said:


> When we can produce students that can compete with the rest of the world again, maybe I'll respect so called educators.
> 
> We spend more money per student than most nations and we are behind.  Tell me why there is always an education budget crisis even though school budgets increase every year.
> 
> I'll tell you why, education is so administratively top heavy that most of the money goes to bureaucrats that don't teach, and teachers want free health insurance and free retirement benefits.



We do.  However they are being downsized by companies going overseas.   You don't seem aware that when the US is compared to other countries, our stats include EVERYONE, theirs do not.  They do not have systems that educate EVERYONE as ours does.   Perhaps you'd like our system to be more like theirs?


----------



## bodecea

Jarhead said:


> So Bodecea...
> 
> It seems you did not realize the work scherdule of a teacher was as it is.
> You laughed at the hours I stated...which are fact...and you criticized the days working I stated which I proved to be fact.
> 
> So now that you realize that you were not well informed when you first started this debate....do you now see our side of the debate?
> 
> Or are you just a partisan jerk who will argue even when he sees the err of his thinking.



I laugh at what you wrote because you are wrong.


----------



## WorldWatcher

Jarhead said:


> I was comparing the typical amount of time spent in the workplace.





No you weren't, you were establishing work hours to act as a basis for compensation comparison.  Work hours and time spent in the workplace are not the same for many exempt type positions.


>>>>


----------



## bodecea

Jarhead said:


> shintao said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> school year is this year:
> 
> 9-06-10 to 6-20-11
> 
> That is 9 months and 14 days or approximately 284 days
> Less weekends during that span....80 days
> Less the summer months NOT in that span.....81 days
> Less 2 weeks Christmas Vacation.....10 days (not including weekends already calculated in)
> Less 1 week winter break (Presidents week)....5 days
> Less 1 week spring break.......5 days
> Thanksgiving.....2 days
> Memorial day....1 day
> Martin Luther King Day....1 day
> 
> *365 minus 80 minus 81 minus 10 minus 5 minus 5 minus 2 minus 1 minus 1= 180 days*
> 
> *Hours 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM.....8 hour day*
> 
> 
> 
> You've NEVER been a teacher, have you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the issue here?
> 
> What is it that you are missing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does that include teacher conferences, PTA duty's, sabbaticals to update education and certifications with the state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Open schopol night is one night a year.
> *Teacher conferences are from 3 to 4...15 minutes a parent....over a 2 week span....NEVER after 4*
Click to expand...

 


> PTA duty is voluntary....just as parents arent paid to be part of PTA as well.
> Sabbaticals to update education is the same as CLE for attorneys....CRE for brokers...etc..etc...something all of us have to do as it pertains to our career....and not get paid for it
> 
> Any other holes you would like to punch as opposed to saying...
> 
> "you know, I never really realized....it is not such as bad deal they have"


Well, I guess since it is SUCH a great deal, there is no turnover like 1/3rd gone in first 3 years and 1/2 gone in 5 years.....It's such a sweet deal.


----------



## LibocalypseNow

I voted Yes but the Teacher Unions sure have done their best over the years to change that. Respecting Teachers does not mean respecting Teacher Unions. Teacher Unions now do much more harm than they do good in our Public Schools. It's all about greed & politics for them. They stopped caring about the kids a long time ago. For them it's all about getting that cash and creating good little future adult Democrats through indoctrination. This Wisconsin situation defines them perfectly. It's all about them and getting Democrats elected. It certainly isn't about the kids anymore. It's actually very sad.


----------



## bodecea

Skull Pilot said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look...
> 
> I am not saying teachers are overpaid by any means. They are paid very well and by no means are they looked down upon or not respected.
> 
> All I am saying is they have a good deal...one that is not much different than many we find in the private sector.
> 
> The rhetoric is just that....rhetoric....
> 
> Look at the facts and the numbers.....it is what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When teachers can't produce students that can perform they are overpaid.
> 
> American students can't compete in the world and it's not because teachers aren't paid enough.
Click to expand...

There is no personal responsibility on the part of the students...the willing, the not so willing, the high IQs, the low IQs, the Spec Ed student, the ED student, the homeless student, the hungry student, the neglected student.....It's all on the teacher.   

That's why I blame the teachers of those posters here who lie, who are rude, who are wrong....it's not their fault....it's the teachers.


----------



## bodecea

Skull Pilot said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look...
> 
> I am not saying teachers are overpaid by any means. They are paid very well and by no means are they looked down upon or not respected.
> 
> All I am saying is they have a good deal...one that is not much different than many we find in the private sector.
> 
> The rhetoric is just that....rhetoric....
> 
> Look at the facts and the numbers.....it is what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When teachers *can't produce students* that can perform they are overpaid.
> 
> American students can't compete in the world and it's not because teachers aren't paid enough.
Click to expand...



Students are widgets to be produced.


----------



## bodecea

Jarhead said:


> shintao said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> Open schopol night is one night a year.
> Teacher conferences are from 3 to 4...15 minutes a parent....over a 2 week span....NEVER after 4
> PTA duty is voluntary....just as parents arent paid to be part of PTA as well.
> Sabbaticals to update education is the same as CLE for attorneys....CRE for brokers...etc..etc...something all of us have to do as it pertains to our career....and not get paid for it
> 
> Any other holes you would like to punch as opposed to saying...
> 
> "you know, I never really realized....it is not such as bad deal they have"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they have a good deal, the one they negotiated and accepted. I am just saying teachers do more work in a year than most private sector workers, so just be honest about it. Saying they work 8 hour days is BS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And saying an attorney works 10 hours a day is BS too.
> I was comparing the typical amount of time spent in the workplace.
> 
> And to say a teacher does more work than say...and attorney...is BS....they both work hard...and when hard times come, an attorney may have to take a cut in his/her income....just as a teacher may have to.
> 
> But the BIG difference is....a teacher gets a heck of a lot more down time creating a much better quality of life...
Click to expand...


Attorneys charge by the hour...but I can see that you want to compare them to teachers since their pay is SO comparable.


----------



## Wicked Jester

bodecea said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look...
> 
> I am not saying teachers are overpaid by any means. They are paid very well and by no means are they looked down upon or not respected.
> 
> All I am saying is they have a good deal...one that is not much different than many we find in the private sector.
> 
> The rhetoric is just that....rhetoric....
> 
> Look at the facts and the numbers.....it is what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When teachers can't produce students that can perform they are overpaid.
> 
> American students can't compete in the world and it's not because teachers aren't paid enough.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no personal responsibility on the part of the students...the willing, the not so willing, the high IQs, the low IQs, the Spec Ed student, the ED student, the homeless student, the hungry student, the neglected student.....It's all on the teacher.
> 
> That's why I blame the teachers of those posters here who lie, who are rude, who are wrong....it's not their fault....it's the teachers.
Click to expand...

Well, at least you have the guts to blame YOUR former teachers for your LIES, your rudeness, and the fact that you are consistently wrong on so many levels......Yep, it was most definitely YOUR teachers.


----------



## bodecea

LibocalypseNow said:


> I voted Yes but the Teacher Unions sure have done their best over the years to change that. Respecting Teachers does not mean respecting Teacher Unions. Teacher Unions now do much more harm than they do good in our Public Schools. It's all about greed & politics for them. They stopped caring about the kids a long time ago. For them it's all about getting that cash and creating good little future adult Democrats through indoctrination. This Wisconsin situation defines them perfectly. It's all about them and getting Democrats elected. It certainly isn't about the kids anymore. It's actually very sad.



You regurgitate those Talking Points very well, Libo.


----------



## Skull Pilot

bodecea said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look...
> 
> I am not saying teachers are overpaid by any means. They are paid very well and by no means are they looked down upon or not respected.
> 
> All I am saying is they have a good deal...one that is not much different than many we find in the private sector.
> 
> The rhetoric is just that....rhetoric....
> 
> Look at the facts and the numbers.....it is what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When teachers *can't produce students* that can perform they are overpaid.
> 
> American students can't compete in the world and it's not because teachers aren't paid enough.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Students are widgets to be produced.
Click to expand...


why do you think modern schools are based on the factory model?


----------



## bodecea

Wicked Jester said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> When teachers can't produce students that can perform they are overpaid.
> 
> American students can't compete in the world and it's not because teachers aren't paid enough.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no personal responsibility on the part of the students...the willing, the not so willing, the high IQs, the low IQs, the Spec Ed student, the ED student, the homeless student, the hungry student, the neglected student.....It's all on the teacher.
> 
> That's why I blame the teachers of those posters here who lie, who are rude, who are wrong....it's not their fault....it's the teachers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, at least you have the guts to blame YOUR former teachers for your LIES, your rudeness, and the fact that you are consistently wrong on so many levels......Yep, it was most definitely YOUR teachers.
Click to expand...

I blame your teachers for not teaching you to see the point in a post.   It's not your fault.   It's the teachers.


----------



## bodecea

Skull Pilot said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> When teachers *can't produce students* that can perform they are overpaid.
> 
> American students can't compete in the world and it's not because teachers aren't paid enough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Students are widgets to be produced.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> why do you think modern schools are based on the factory model?
Click to expand...


Truely?   And you base that statement on.....?


----------



## Toro

Good teachers are underpaid.  Bad teachers are overpaid.


----------



## Wicked Jester

bodecea said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shintao said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think they have a good deal, the one they negotiated and accepted. I am just saying teachers do more work in a year than most private sector workers, so just be honest about it. Saying they work 8 hour days is BS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And saying an attorney works 10 hours a day is BS too.
> I was comparing the typical amount of time spent in the workplace.
> 
> And to say a teacher does more work than say...and attorney...is BS....they both work hard...and when hard times come, an attorney may have to take a cut in his/her income....just as a teacher may have to.
> 
> But the BIG difference is....a teacher gets a heck of a lot more down time creating a much better quality of life...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Attorneys charge by the hour...but I can see that you want to compare them to teachers since their pay is SO comparable.
Click to expand...

So, are you trying to say that teachers pay of between 45-75,000.00 a year isn't fair?

Face it, those teachers and other union workers in Wisconsin are going to have to accept serious compromise, or say good bye to their jobs........Their benefits are no longer sustainable. the taxpayers can't afford to supplement their very generous benefits any longer. They need to start shelling out more from their own pockets. Private sector employees are doing it, so can they!

Funny, but I sure as hell didn't hear you whining your ass off when your inept messiah slapped a pay increase freeze on fed workers.......Nope, note one whiney liberal screetch from you or any other whiney liberal up here. .....But all be damned if a Repub tries to make tough choices. In your feeble minds, the world will implode.

You people and your hypocrisy is laughable


----------



## Jarhead

bodecea said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shintao said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think they have a good deal, the one they negotiated and accepted. I am just saying teachers do more work in a year than most private sector workers, so just be honest about it. Saying they work 8 hour days is BS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And saying an attorney works 10 hours a day is BS too.
> I was comparing the typical amount of time spent in the workplace.
> 
> And to say a teacher does more work than say...and attorney...is BS....they both work hard...and when hard times come, an attorney may have to take a cut in his/her income....just as a teacher may have to.
> 
> But the BIG difference is....a teacher gets a heck of a lot more down time creating a much better quality of life...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Attorneys charge by the hour...but I can see that you want to compare them to teachers since their pay is SO comparable.
Click to expand...


You truly are clueless.
Law firms charge by the hour moron.
An attorney who is not a partner but an associate...which is what we were comparing per my original "apples to apples" post are NOT paid by the hour. They are paid a salary.

Now move on. You were put in your place...expecially when you laughed at the 180 day thing without having a clue that 180 days IS the number.

Move on. You are out of your league with me.


----------



## Shoobis1

The problem I have with teachers is that they don't do anything besides teach.  I think you should have to have some kind of career yourself before you get the right to teach the next generation and pass on your knowledge.  Teaching should be a part-time thing that's a supplement to your regular job.  That way many people can participate in passing on knowledge to the next generation, just how it should be.

We've all heard the saying, "Those who can, do.  Those who can't, teach."  I think you should have to prove that you "can" before you're allowed to teach.  If your job is to accomplish nothing yourself except enable others to accomplish stuff, there's something wrong with that.  It's putting the cart before the horse.  I think many young adults understand this and don't want to be full-time teachers, which is why we have such a shortage of teachers in America.


----------



## bodecea

Wicked Jester said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> And saying an attorney works 10 hours a day is BS too.
> I was comparing the typical amount of time spent in the workplace.
> 
> And to say a teacher does more work than say...and attorney...is BS....they both work hard...and when hard times come, an attorney may have to take a cut in his/her income....just as a teacher may have to.
> 
> But the BIG difference is....a teacher gets a heck of a lot more down time creating a much better quality of life...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Attorneys charge by the hour...but I can see that you want to compare them to teachers since their pay is SO comparable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, are you trying to say that teachers pay of between 45-75,000.00 a year isn't fair?
> 
> Face it, those teachers and other union workers in Wisconsin are going to have to accept serious compromise, or say good bye to their jobs........Their benefits are no longer sustainable. the taxpayers can't afford to supplement their very generous benefits any longer. They need to start shelling out more from their own pockets. Private sector employees are doing it, so can they!
> 
> Funny, but I sure as hell didn't hear you whining your ass off when your inept messiah slapped a pay increase freeze on fed workers.......Nope, note one whiney liberal screetch from you or any other whiney liberal up here. .....But all be damned if a Repub tries to make tough choices. In your feeble minds, the world will implode.
> 
> You people and your hypocrisy is laughable
Click to expand...


YOu DO know they compromised and took cuts and took on some more of their health benefits last year....right?


----------



## bodecea

Shoobis1 said:


> The problem I have with teachers is that they don't do anything besides teach.  I think you should have to have some kind of career yourself before you get the right to teach the next generation and pass on your knowledge.  Teaching should be a part-time thing that's a supplement to your regular job.  That way many people can participate in passing on knowledge to the next generation, just how it should be.
> 
> We've all heard the saying, "Those who can, do.  Those who can't teach."  I think you should have to prove that you "can" before you're allowed to teach.  If your job is to accomplish nothing yourself except enable others to accomplish stuff, there's something wrong with that.  It's putting the cart before the horse.  I think many young adults understand this and don't want to be full-time teachers, which is why we have such a shortage of teachers in America.



Many teachers are second career.   My brother was in the military first.   Many of my teacher friends, the same...or in insurance, or police, or in one case a med tech at Stanford Hospital.


----------



## McDowell's

bodecea said:


> I say no...it is not.  And the last few days certainly has helped prove my point.



The last few days have demonstrated *why* teaching is not a respected profession anymore.


----------



## chanel

My husband makes three times my salary. He said he wouldn't do what I do for ten times. 

Volunteer one day. Then get back to me.

I love what I do. But take away my benefits and pension, and I'd be out in a heartbeat. My bartender friends do very well here at the shore.


----------



## bodecea

chanel said:


> My husband makes three times my salary. He said he wouldn't do what I do for ten times.
> 
> Volunteer one day. Then get back to me.
> 
> I love what I do. But take away my benefits and pension, and I'd be out in a heartbeat. My bartender friends do very well here at the shore.



Chanel, I'm sure you earn every dime of it.   It's a shame how teachers are treated in this country.


----------



## Wicked Jester

bodecea said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Attorneys charge by the hour...but I can see that you want to compare them to teachers since their pay is SO comparable.
> 
> 
> 
> So, are you trying to say that teachers pay of between 45-75,000.00 a year isn't fair?
> 
> Face it, those teachers and other union workers in Wisconsin are going to have to accept serious compromise, or say good bye to their jobs........Their benefits are no longer sustainable. the taxpayers can't afford to supplement their very generous benefits any longer. They need to start shelling out more from their own pockets. Private sector employees are doing it, so can they!
> 
> Funny, but I sure as hell didn't hear you whining your ass off when your inept messiah slapped a pay increase freeze on fed workers.......Nope, note one whiney liberal screetch from you or any other whiney liberal up here. .....But all be damned if a Repub tries to make tough choices. In your feeble minds, the world will implode.
> 
> You people and your hypocrisy is laughable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YOu DO know they compromised and took cuts and took on some more of their health benefits last year....right?
Click to expand...

And it's now quite apparent they have no choice but to take on more cuts and more of their health benefits........Their very generous benefits cannot be sustained. As is the case in may other states.

Like Obama himself said, all americans are going to have to basically bite the bullet. Time for the union goons to start biting away.......Or face mass lay offs.

So, where's that outrage over your beloved Messiah freezing pay increases on federal employees. I mean that would be akin to waging war on the middle class also, eh?

LMAO!


----------



## LibocalypseNow

The greed & politics need to be removed from the Public School System. Teacher Unions add nothing to Public Schools. In fact they only hurt them in the end. Once they decided they were going to be so greedy and start indoctrinating children on being good little future adult Democrats,everything began to collapse. And that's where we are today. Many nations are passing us up in Education. You have to remove the politics & greed. Until this happens,our Public Schools will only continue to crumble further. The Wisconsin Governor should probably be looking for ways to fire these protesting Teachers. It could be a fantastic opportunity to get rid of the greedy political activists in the Schools. I guess we'll see what happens.


----------



## bodecea

Wicked Jester said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, are you trying to say that teachers pay of between 45-75,000.00 a year isn't fair?
> 
> Face it, those teachers and other union workers in Wisconsin are going to have to accept serious compromise, or say good bye to their jobs........Their benefits are no longer sustainable. the taxpayers can't afford to supplement their very generous benefits any longer. They need to start shelling out more from their own pockets. Private sector employees are doing it, so can they!
> 
> Funny, but I sure as hell didn't hear you whining your ass off when your inept messiah slapped a pay increase freeze on fed workers.......Nope, note one whiney liberal screetch from you or any other whiney liberal up here. .....But all be damned if a Repub tries to make tough choices. In your feeble minds, the world will implode.
> 
> You people and your hypocrisy is laughable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOu DO know they compromised and took cuts and took on some more of their health benefits last year....right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And it's now quite apparent they have no choice but to take on more cuts and more of their health benefits........Their very generous benefits cannot be sustained. As is the case in may other states.
> 
> Like Obama himself said, all americans are going to have to basically bite the bullet. Time for the union goons to start biting away.......Or face mass lay offs.
> 
> So, where's that outrage over *your beloved Messiah* freezing pay increases on federal employees. I mean that would be akin to waging war on the middle class also, eh?
> 
> LMAO!
Click to expand...

I don't know who that person is you are referring to.   I blame your teachers for not doing a good job.


----------



## Toro

FTR EZ is massively underpaid...


----------



## bodecea

LibocalypseNow said:


> The greed & politics need to be removed from the Public School System. Teacher Unions add nothing to Public Schools. In fact they only hurt them in the end. Once they decided they were going to be so greedy and start indoctrinating children on being good little future adult Democrats,everything began to collapse. And that's where we are today. Many nations are passing us up in Education. You have to remove the politics & greed. Until this happens,our Public Schools will only continue to crumble further. The Wisconsin Governor should probably be looking for ways to fire these protesting Teachers. It could be a fantastic opportunity to get rid of the greedy political activists in the Schools. I guess we'll see what happens.



I wonder what talking point blog you lifted that from.


----------



## Wicked Jester

chanel said:


> My husband makes three times my salary. He said he wouldn't do what I do for ten times.
> 
> Volunteer one day. Then get back to me.
> 
> I love what I do. But take away my benefits and pension, and I'd be out in a heartbeat. My bartender friends do very well here at the shore.


So, who's trying to take away anybody's benefits and pensions?

That's not what is happening here. What is happening is that like every other american, it's time for the union types to start paying more into their benefits and pensions. The private sector is doing it, and has been for many years. No reason whatsoever that the union types can't start doing the same. It's long overdue.......It's either that, or get layed off and don't collect shit.


----------



## mdn2000

Kids are not failing, the economy is failing, where are those simple jobs in industry these people need. 

It is flat out wrong to try and give every kid the same education. We need workers and jobs for workers. Problem is we lost so many jobs those few of us who do work where the dollar is created, not spent, are too few to support fat government.

This is a fight against a fat government that refuses to quit over eating. 

Are teachers respected, wrong question, at the wrong time, for the wrong problem. 

The question is does the government have the right to hold the public hostage. The teachers are the government, not the public. Our fight is against the government which is a proven failure in everything they do. 

We need new leaders with old ideas, the ideas of our founders. There is plenty of waste to cut from the educational system, funny how we are forced to ask if teachers are respected, not if the waste should be cut.


----------



## Wicked Jester

bodecea said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOu DO know they compromised and took cuts and took on some more of their health benefits last year....right?
> 
> 
> 
> And it's now quite apparent they have no choice but to take on more cuts and more of their health benefits........Their very generous benefits cannot be sustained. As is the case in may other states.
> 
> Like Obama himself said, all americans are going to have to basically bite the bullet. Time for the union goons to start biting away.......Or face mass lay offs.
> 
> So, where's that outrage over *your beloved Messiah* freezing pay increases on federal employees. I mean that would be akin to waging war on the middle class also, eh?
> 
> LMAO!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know who that person is you are referring to.   I blame your teachers for not doing a good job.
Click to expand...

I'll make it simple on your lil' feeble mind........WHERE.....IS.....YOUR......OUTRAGE.....OVER.......PRESIDENT.......OBAMA.....FREEZING......PAY.......INCREASES.....ON....FEDERAL...EMPLOYEES?

There!.......Slow and to the point. that should allow you the time to grasp the question.


----------



## Grace

bucs90 said:


> But to answer the thread question, no, teachers aren't as respected as they once were. Neither are cops. Neither are pastors. Neither are the elderly.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Because we have glorified a culture that values rap stars, ball players, sex addicts, hippies, gays, pot smokers, and just about any other irregular behavior outside of traditional morals. We have glorified all of that above the traditional pillars of respect from our past: Which once was grandfathers, cops, teachers, firemen, etc.
> 
> 
> But now, if you believe in some type of morality and proper behavior, then you're ridiculed in our society. Add to the mix lawyers who are ever so willing to file a lawsuit for every hurt feeling in the world, and you get today's society.



Needs to be repeated. 
Well said.


----------



## bodecea

Wicked Jester said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> And it's now quite apparent they have no choice but to take on more cuts and more of their health benefits........Their very generous benefits cannot be sustained. As is the case in may other states.
> 
> Like Obama himself said, all americans are going to have to basically bite the bullet. Time for the union goons to start biting away.......Or face mass lay offs.
> 
> So, where's that outrage over *your beloved Messiah* freezing pay increases on federal employees. I mean that would be akin to waging war on the middle class also, eh?
> 
> LMAO!
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know who that person is you are referring to.   I blame your teachers for not doing a good job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'll make it simple on your lil' feeble mind........WHERE.....IS.....YOUR......OUTRAGE.....OVER.......PRESIDENT.......OBAMA.....FREEZING......PAY.......INCREASES.....ON....FEDERAL...EMPLOYEES?
> 
> There!.......Slow and to the point. that should allow you the time to grasp the question.
Click to expand...


Freezing pay?   Sure.  No problem.  And I suspect that the teachers of WI are fine with a pay freeze (rather than the 2% cut they took)...but that is not what the governor is wanting....maybe you did not know that.   I blame your teachers for failing you.


----------



## LibocalypseNow

I will always respect most Teachers but i will never respect Democrats and Teacher Unions. They have both destroyed our Public School System. They're behaving like spoiled brats. Not surprising though. The Wisconsin Governor should call their bluff and boot these Teachers.


----------



## Dr.Drock

LibocalypseNow said:


> I will always respect most Teachers but i will never respect Democrats and Teacher Unions. They have both destroyed our Public School System. They're behaving like spoiled brats. Not surprising though. The Wisconsin Governor should call their bluff and boot these Teachers.



Libocalypse maybe it's not how you meant it, but I certainly wouldn't put all the blame on one party, or even an overwhelming majority of it.


----------



## LibocalypseNow

Dr.Drock said:


> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will always respect most Teachers but i will never respect Democrats and Teacher Unions. They have both destroyed our Public School System. They're behaving like spoiled brats. Not surprising though. The Wisconsin Governor should call their bluff and boot these Teachers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libocalypse maybe it's not how you meant it, but I certainly wouldn't put all the blame on one party, or even an overwhelming majority of it.
Click to expand...


Well the Democrats & Teacher Unions have most of the power in our Publc Schools so i have to blame them mostly. They are constantly pushing their greedy political agenda on the kids. It's all about the indoctrination process. They only care about creating those future adult Democrats. They have lost their way. Many countries are now passing us up in Education. We need to get the political activists out of the class room. These activists only serve themselves and the Democratic Party. They stopped caring about the kids a long time ago. Until the activists are removed,our Public Schools will only fall further & further behind the rest of the World.


----------



## bodecea

LibocalypseNow said:


> Dr.Drock said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will always respect most Teachers but i will never respect Democrats and Teacher Unions. They have both destroyed our Public School System. They're behaving like spoiled brats. Not surprising though. The Wisconsin Governor should call their bluff and boot these Teachers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libocalypse maybe it's not how you meant it, but I certainly wouldn't put all the blame on one party, or even an overwhelming majority of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well the Democrats & Teacher Unions have most of the power in our Publc Schools so i have to blame them mostly. They are constantly pushing their greedy political agenda on the kids. It's all about the indoctrination process. They only care about creating those future adult Democrats. They have lost their way. Many countries are now passing us up in Education. We need to get the political activists out of the class room. These activists only serve themselves and the Democratic Party. They stopped caring about the kids a long time ago. Until the activists are removed,our Public Schools will only fall further & further behind the rest of the World.
Click to expand...


And schools in our states with no unions?


----------



## Wicked Jester

bodecea said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know who that person is you are referring to.   I blame your teachers for not doing a good job.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll make it simple on your lil' feeble mind........WHERE.....IS.....YOUR......OUTRAGE.....OVER.......PRESIDENT.......OBAMA.....FREEZING......PAY.......INCREASES.....ON....FEDERAL...EMPLOYEES?
> 
> There!.......Slow and to the point. that should allow you the time to grasp the question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Freezing pay?   Sure.  No problem.  And I suspect that the teachers of WI are fine with a pay freeze (rather than the 2% cut they took)...but that is not what the governor is wanting....maybe you did not know that.   I blame your teachers for failing you.
Click to expand...

What the governor is wanting is for the union types to start paying their fair share. It's a long overdue concept. Just like the private sector, compromise has to be made.

Doing things your way and the union way will only cause loss of jobs, at a great cost to the students and their parents This isn't an issue that you can just gloss over based on your patisan hack BS......Face it, if this were a dem governor doing the same thing, you wouldn't whine whatsoever.....And you know it's fucking true.

Face it, those teachers and union employees are making damn good money. 45-77 G's isn't the chump change that you're used too. They can afford to dig in their pockets a lil' deeper. Just like every other american is having to do.

I blame your former teachers for your not being able to grasp such a simple concept. Ya' should have paid more attention in class instead of fucking off all the time.


----------



## L.K.Eder

bodecea said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unions killed Detroit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detroit is dead?
Click to expand...


detroit is not dead, it just smells funny.


----------



## Harry Dresden

WillowTree said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> (For example,* taking sick days *and using students for their own gain is irresponsible IMO.)  I'm still unsure as to why teacher unions are so important.  Do teachers really have it that bad that they need to pay union dues for representation that they cannot get themselves?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> X....are you saying if said teacher has the flu they should come in anyway and infect the kids who then go home and infect their household?...just asking.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Harry! Are you saying it's okay for the lying striking teacher cnut to call in sick when they aren't and then drag the children out into the streets to strike with them?? what kind of role model is that?
Click to expand...


is that what he is saying?.....if so i misread him.....


----------



## Dr.Drock

LibocalypseNow said:


> Dr.Drock said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will always respect most Teachers but i will never respect Democrats and Teacher Unions. They have both destroyed our Public School System. They're behaving like spoiled brats. Not surprising though. The Wisconsin Governor should call their bluff and boot these Teachers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libocalypse maybe it's not how you meant it, but I certainly wouldn't put all the blame on one party, or even an overwhelming majority of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well the Democrats & Teacher Unions have most of the power in our Publc Schools so i have to blame them mostly. They are constantly pushing their greedy political agenda on the kids. It's all about the indoctrination process. They only care about creating those future adult Democrats. They have lost their way. Many countries are now passing us up in Education. We need to get the political activists out of the class room. These activists only serve themselves and the Democratic Party. They stopped caring about the kids a long time ago. Until the activists are removed,our Public Schools will only fall further & further behind the rest of the World.
Click to expand...


Right but the other party has had many opporunities when they had full control of government to make radical changes and they didn't.  All the major issues in government are the fault of both parties and somewhat equally as each party will always eventually get their opportunity to undo what the other party did.


----------



## chanel

Two separate issues. Most of my friends are willing to accept contributions to benefits and pension- despite contactual obligations. They are not willing to be demonized and vilified. Bodecea's thread was about respect. Obviously posts abput pedophilia and videotaping, suggest that the economy is not the issue. 

Teacher bashing - the new trend in bigotry.


----------



## Dr.Drock

chanel said:


> Two separate issues. Most of my friends are willing to accept contributions to benefits and pension- despite contactual obligations. They are not willing to be demonized and vilified. Bodecea's thread was about respect. Obviously posts abput pedophilia and videotaping, suggest that the economy is not the issue.
> 
> Teacher bashing - the new trend in bigotry.



Teacher bashing because of the union is just as silly as union loving because of teachers.


----------



## Annie

I've always received respect from parents and students. Does that mean there aren't disagreements? No. However, since we have had mutual respect we work it out, often becoming best advocates for each other. 

The real problem comes from administrators. In private schools this can be a career killer. However in public schools, the unions have become so powerful that it's near impossible to get rid of incompetent teachers, while great new teachers see the axe because of tenure. 

I'd be more pro-union if those were the issues that were being addressed and how to help teachers be more effective and schools make a significant contribution to community by helping children and parents from early months onward. Instead what we see are huge union leader salaries, working to protect jobs whether useful or not. Endorsements and union monies being spent on politicians, not on issues that the vast majority of members would want. 

Ask a classroom teacher if they want more lobbyists in DC or state capital or rather contributing to a school plan for incorporating modules for instruction. 

Truth to tell, unions can help with making schools better, for the most part they no longer do. Many if not most teachers would rather spend their dues on their classes, if they knew they wouldn't get axed on a whim of a disgruntled parent and a limp-spined administrator. That the unions now protect against quite well. If the state/districts found a way to address that issue, teachers unions would certainly have a problem.


----------



## Jarhead

chanel said:


> Two separate issues. Most of my friends are willing to accept contributions to benefits and pension- despite contactual obligations. They are not willing to be demonized and vilified. Bodecea's thread was about respect. Obviously posts abput pedophilia and videotaping, suggest that the economy is not the issue.
> 
> Teacher bashing - the new trend in bigotry.



Teacher bashing?
No.
Never see it or hear it.
Putting teachers on a pedestal? Seems if we dont, then we are accused of hating teachers.

THAT is the true crux of the debate.

Not why does the right hate teachers....but why does the left insist we put them on pedestals?

They are professionals who work hard, get paid well, have great vacation time, no doubt warranted.....but put on a pedestal as we accuse doctors of taking out tonsils for the sake of making more money?

No. Not on my watch.


----------



## Wicked Jester

chanel said:


> Two separate issues. Most of my friends are willing to accept contributions to benefits and pension- despite contactual obligations. They are not willing to be demonized and vilified. Bodecea's thread was about respect. Obviously posts abput pedophilia and videotaping, suggest that the economy is not the issue.
> 
> Teacher bashing - the new trend in bigotry.


So, tell us how those teachers in Wisconsin deserve respect when they are WILLINGLY abandoning their classrooms and students, thereby stepping on the RIGHTS of those children to receive an education.......Why can't those teachers go protest on their own time, after hours?...........Why do they abandon their students and infringe on those students RIGHTS?..........Why should we show respect to those teachers who are causing those students parents to have to rearrange their lives, too include taking time off work at a loss of pay, in an attempt to ensure that their kids are being properly taken care of in a safe way, when those students should be in the classroom exercising their RIGHTS to an education.

Face it, those teachers don't deserve ANY respect for what they are doing. Those teachers deserve to be bashed come hell or high water.

The few teachers who have elected to stay in the classroom, and who are willingly continuing to teach those students and let the union handle the situation are the ones who deserve the respect. Certainly not the ones who abandonded their students and are stomping all over those RIGHTFULLY given RIGHTS of said students!


----------



## bodecea

Wicked Jester said:


> chanel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two separate issues. Most of my friends are willing to accept contributions to benefits and pension- despite contactual obligations. They are not willing to be demonized and vilified. Bodecea's thread was about respect. Obviously posts abput pedophilia and videotaping, suggest that the economy is not the issue.
> 
> Teacher bashing - the new trend in bigotry.
> 
> 
> 
> So, tell us how those teachers in Wisconsin deserve respect when they are WILLINGLY abandoning their classrooms and students, thereby stepping on the RIGHTS of those children to receive an education.......Why can't those teachers go protest on their own time, after hours?...........Why do they abandon their students and infringe on those students RIGHTS?..........Why should we show respect to those teachers who are causing those students parents to have to rearrange their lives, too include taking time off work at a loss of pay, in an attempt to ensure that their kids are being properly taken care of in a safe way, when those students should be in the classroom exercising their RIGHTS to an education.
> 
> Face it, those teachers don't deserve ANY respect for what they are doing. Those teachers deserve to be bashed come hell or high water.
> 
> The few teachers who have elected to stay in the classroom, and who are willingly continuing to teach those students and let the union handle the situation are the ones who deserve the respect. Certainly not the ones who abandonded their students and are stomping all over those RIGHTFULLY given RIGHTS of said students!
Click to expand...


Yes, you prefer Americans who roll over.   I get it.


----------



## Wicked Jester

bodecea said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> chanel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two separate issues. Most of my friends are willing to accept contributions to benefits and pension- despite contactual obligations. They are not willing to be demonized and vilified. Bodecea's thread was about respect. Obviously posts abput pedophilia and videotaping, suggest that the economy is not the issue.
> 
> Teacher bashing - the new trend in bigotry.
> 
> 
> 
> So, tell us how those teachers in Wisconsin deserve respect when they are WILLINGLY abandoning their classrooms and students, thereby stepping on the RIGHTS of those children to receive an education.......Why can't those teachers go protest on their own time, after hours?...........Why do they abandon their students and infringe on those students RIGHTS?..........Why should we show respect to those teachers who are causing those students parents to have to rearrange their lives, too include taking time off work at a loss of pay, in an attempt to ensure that their kids are being properly taken care of in a safe way, when those students should be in the classroom exercising their RIGHTS to an education.
> 
> Face it, those teachers don't deserve ANY respect for what they are doing. Those teachers deserve to be bashed come hell or high water.
> 
> The few teachers who have elected to stay in the classroom, and who are willingly continuing to teach those students and let the union handle the situation are the ones who deserve the respect. Certainly not the ones who abandonded their students and are stomping all over those RIGHTFULLY given RIGHTS of said students!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, you prefer Americans who roll over.   I get it.
Click to expand...

Typical.....You can't counter anything I said in that post so you come up with your usual one line of idiocy.......You're so outgunned up here it's laughable.


----------



## Jarhead

bodecea said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> chanel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two separate issues. Most of my friends are willing to accept contributions to benefits and pension- despite contactual obligations. They are not willing to be demonized and vilified. Bodecea's thread was about respect. Obviously posts abput pedophilia and videotaping, suggest that the economy is not the issue.
> 
> Teacher bashing - the new trend in bigotry.
> 
> 
> 
> So, tell us how those teachers in Wisconsin deserve respect when they are WILLINGLY abandoning their classrooms and students, thereby stepping on the RIGHTS of those children to receive an education.......Why can't those teachers go protest on their own time, after hours?...........Why do they abandon their students and infringe on those students RIGHTS?..........Why should we show respect to those teachers who are causing those students parents to have to rearrange their lives, too include taking time off work at a loss of pay, in an attempt to ensure that their kids are being properly taken care of in a safe way, when those students should be in the classroom exercising their RIGHTS to an education.
> 
> Face it, those teachers don't deserve ANY respect for what they are doing. Those teachers deserve to be bashed come hell or high water.
> 
> The few teachers who have elected to stay in the classroom, and who are willingly continuing to teach those students and let the union handle the situation are the ones who deserve the respect. Certainly not the ones who abandonded their students and are stomping all over those RIGHTFULLY given RIGHTS of said students!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, you prefer Americans who roll over.   I get it.
Click to expand...


If one needs to spin what his opponent says in an effort to grab an advantage in a debate, then one is actually admitting to have nothing and therefore is admitting defeat.


----------



## JFK_USA

High_Gravity said:


> After seeing the way the kids treat teachers in middle school and high school, my answer is no.



That and Republicans giving a big middle finger to teachers. I mean they hate teachers. They hate anyone who tries to promote a better living for all.


----------



## JFK_USA

LibocalypseNow said:


> The greed & politics need to be removed from the Public School System. Teacher Unions add nothing to Public Schools. In fact they only hurt them in the end. Once they decided they were going to be so greedy and start indoctrinating children on being good little future adult Democrats,everything began to collapse. And that's where we are today. Many nations are passing us up in Education. You have to remove the politics & greed. Until this happens,our Public Schools will only continue to crumble further. The Wisconsin Governor should probably be looking for ways to fire these protesting Teachers. It could be a fantastic opportunity to get rid of the greedy political activists in the Schools. I guess we'll see what happens.



So the only politics that should be in schools is ones you agree with?

Thats ridiculous. You don't want to remove the greed from banks who steals money from the people, but those greedy 25K a year bastards. 

Seriously, when you leave this world, the average US IQ score will go up 20 points.


----------



## Wicked Jester

JFK_USA said:


> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> 
> The greed & politics need to be removed from the Public School System. Teacher Unions add nothing to Public Schools. In fact they only hurt them in the end. Once they decided they were going to be so greedy and start indoctrinating children on being good little future adult Democrats,everything began to collapse. And that's where we are today. Many nations are passing us up in Education. You have to remove the politics & greed. Until this happens,our Public Schools will only continue to crumble further. The Wisconsin Governor should probably be looking for ways to fire these protesting Teachers. It could be a fantastic opportunity to get rid of the greedy political activists in the Schools. I guess we'll see what happens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the only politics that should be in schools is ones you agree with?
> 
> Thats ridiculous. You don't want to remove the greed from banks who steals money from the people, but those greedy 25K a year bastards.
> 
> Seriously, when you leave this world, the average US IQ score will go up 20 points.
Click to expand...

Seriously, why don't you look at what those teachers are making a year. 45-75 g's on average. Certainly not pocket change.

Face it, nobody is trying to take their pay away, their benefits away, their pensions away. It's time they start digging deeper into their pockets just like everybody in the private sector must do nowadays. They are no better than anybody else. They can most definitely afford it.


----------



## Annie

Wicked Jester said:


> JFK_USA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> 
> The greed & politics need to be removed from the Public School System. Teacher Unions add nothing to Public Schools. In fact they only hurt them in the end. Once they decided they were going to be so greedy and start indoctrinating children on being good little future adult Democrats,everything began to collapse. And that's where we are today. Many nations are passing us up in Education. You have to remove the politics & greed. Until this happens,our Public Schools will only continue to crumble further. The Wisconsin Governor should probably be looking for ways to fire these protesting Teachers. It could be a fantastic opportunity to get rid of the greedy political activists in the Schools. I guess we'll see what happens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the only politics that should be in schools is ones you agree with?
> 
> Thats ridiculous. You don't want to remove the greed from banks who steals money from the people, but those greedy 25K a year bastards.
> 
> Seriously, when you leave this world, the average US IQ score will go up 20 points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Seriously, why don't look at what those teachers are making a year. 45-75 g's on average. Certainly not pocket change.
> 
> Face it, nobody is trying to take their pay away, their benefits away, their pensions away. It's time they start digging deeper into their pockets just like everybody in the private sector must do nowadays. They are no better than anybody else. They can most definitely afford it.
Click to expand...


Indeed about salaries. Not once, until yesterday has anyone answered my query, "What if a fair teacher's salary?" Yesterday, perhaps this morning someone said, 'bankers salary.' When asked if JP Morgan or Main St. Bank, he put up a avg salary. Teachers avg. salary was very close from same site, probably higher if benefits were factored in.


----------



## Wicked Jester

Annie said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JFK_USA said:
> 
> 
> 
> So the only politics that should be in schools is ones you agree with?
> 
> Thats ridiculous. You don't want to remove the greed from banks who steals money from the people, but those greedy 25K a year bastards.
> 
> Seriously, when you leave this world, the average US IQ score will go up 20 points.
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, why don't look at what those teachers are making a year. 45-75 g's on average. Certainly not pocket change.
> 
> Face it, nobody is trying to take their pay away, their benefits away, their pensions away. It's time they start digging deeper into their pockets just like everybody in the private sector must do nowadays. They are no better than anybody else. They can most definitely afford it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed about salaries. Not once, until yesterday has anyone answered my query, "What if a fair teacher's salary?" Yesterday, perhaps this morning someone said, 'bankers salary.' When asked if JP Morgan or Main St. Bank, he put up a avg salary. Teachers avg. salary was very close from same site, probably higher if benefits were factored in.
Click to expand...

Those teachers in Wisconsin aren't hurting pay wise, benefit wise, or pension wise. There is no reason they can't dig a lil' deeper into their pockets and come in line with the private sector.

Funny thing is, FOX news just showed a teacher at the protest screaming into the fox interviewers  microphone, *THIS IS FOR THE CHILDREN!....THIS IS FOR THE CHILDREN.....WE'RE DOING THIS FOR THE CHILDREN!!!!!!*

Really?......They're doing it for the children?.........They sure seem to have no problem in stepping on the RIGHTS of the children to an education while they abandon the children and their classrooms to go and participate in some ridiculous protest that will no doubt end up blowing up in their faces......In fact, it's already starting. CNN interviewed a bunch of parents who are pissed off as all hell as to what the teachers are doing. And that sentiment is growing.


----------



## Annie

Wicked Jester said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, why don't look at what those teachers are making a year. 45-75 g's on average. Certainly not pocket change.
> 
> Face it, nobody is trying to take their pay away, their benefits away, their pensions away. It's time they start digging deeper into their pockets just like everybody in the private sector must do nowadays. They are no better than anybody else. They can most definitely afford it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed about salaries. Not once, until yesterday has anyone answered my query, "What if a fair teacher's salary?" Yesterday, perhaps this morning someone said, 'bankers salary.' When asked if JP Morgan or Main St. Bank, he put up a avg salary. Teachers avg. salary was very close from same site, probably higher if benefits were factored in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those teachers in Wisconsin aren't hurting pay wise, benefit wise, or pension wise. There is no reason they can't dig a lil' deeper into their pockets and come in line with the private sector.
> 
> Funny thing is, FOX news just showed a teacher at the protest screaming into the fox interviewers  microphone, *THIS IS FOR THE CHILDREN!....THIS IS FOR THE CHILDREN.....WE'RE DOING THIS FOR THE CHILDREN!!!!!!*
> 
> Really?......They're doing it for the children?.........They sure seem to have no problem in stepping on the RIGHTS of the children to an education while they abandon the children and their classrooms to go and participate in some ridiculous protest that will no doubt end up blowing up in their faces......In fact, it's already starting. CNN interviewed a bunch of parents who are pissed off as all hell as to what the teachers are doing. And that sentiment is growing.
Click to expand...


I would think so. The election results in WI weren't even close regarding the legislature. People voted as they did for a reason. They aren't the no minds the Democrats are hoping for.


----------



## random3434

Just got home and saw this thread.


*16 pages, wow. *
_
I haven't read through the thread, just wanted to say that I:_

Am a teacher

In a public school

Not a member of a Union

I am perfectly fine with the $$ I make

Love my job-I love my students, my staff and my school.


I also feel very blessed I get to teach special needs students every day, something I've always wanted to do since I was 13 years old.

I am also very blessed to have a job where I can spend my holidays and vacations with my daughter, and she never had to have a baby sitter or day care in the summers. We never have a lot of money for vacations, but we do have quality time together, and that to me is the most important thing.


If you want to judge all teachers by a few bad apples, go ahead, but realize a majority of them LOVE helping change a child's life by teaching them.


----------



## Wicked Jester

Annie said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed about salaries. Not once, until yesterday has anyone answered my query, "What if a fair teacher's salary?" Yesterday, perhaps this morning someone said, 'bankers salary.' When asked if JP Morgan or Main St. Bank, he put up a avg salary. Teachers avg. salary was very close from same site, probably higher if benefits were factored in.
> 
> 
> 
> Those teachers in Wisconsin aren't hurting pay wise, benefit wise, or pension wise. There is no reason they can't dig a lil' deeper into their pockets and come in line with the private sector.
> 
> Funny thing is, FOX news just showed a teacher at the protest screaming into the fox interviewers  microphone, *THIS IS FOR THE CHILDREN!....THIS IS FOR THE CHILDREN.....WE'RE DOING THIS FOR THE CHILDREN!!!!!!*
> 
> Really?......They're doing it for the children?.........They sure seem to have no problem in stepping on the RIGHTS of the children to an education while they abandon the children and their classrooms to go and participate in some ridiculous protest that will no doubt end up blowing up in their faces......In fact, it's already starting. CNN interviewed a bunch of parents who are pissed off as all hell as to what the teachers are doing. And that sentiment is growing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would think so. The election results in WI weren't even close regarding the legislature. People voted as they did for a reason. They aren't the no minds the Democrats are hoping for.
Click to expand...

The other thing is, the crowds at the protest are starting to get whipped into a frenzy. If violence breaks out, it's over. 

Look at what we have here. A bunch of union members that are beginning to look like fools. Teachers abandoning their clasrooms and students at great cost to the parents, particularly the one income single parents. Definitely not a good thing when private sector citizens are barely getting by.  And to top it off, the dem representatives skipped town with their tails between their legs, thereby leaving the citizens who have the RIGHT to government representation in the lurch.

This was a bad move on the unions part. It's a bad move on the teachers part. It's a bad move on the dem politicians part. And it's a serioulsy bad move on Obama's part for allowing his cronies to fan the flames. This could be his end of the road in a nutshell. It could definitely deem he and his administration completely moot come '12.

Don't be surprised if you start seeing the Hillary supporters start pushing hard for her to challenge him come '12 after this ridiculous fiasco.


----------



## Gem

I do agree with Wicked Jester in that I think that this is a TERRIBLE political move on the part of the teacher's union.  

My mother, also a teacher, was on the negotiating committee for her union during their last contact negotiations.  She was "disinvited" from serving on the committee this year...the reason?  She mentioned that she thought the union should push for an "Early Bird" agreement that was basically holding the status quo with a small cost of living increase...but nothing more given the current economy.  The union stated, politely, that they didn't want someone with that opinion representing them.

She and I agree wholeheartedly...when many people are out-of-work or are grateful to be holding on to crappy jobs with expensive benefits (or none at all)...that teachers would be foolish indeed to appear to be whining about the fact that we get very decent salaries, incredible benefits, and our summers off to work other jobs.

I think that - regardless of whether the unions are right or wrong in what they are angry about - they are making a political blunder because they will NOT have the support of the American people in the long run and will only breed more ill-will towards teachers.


----------



## BenNatuf

Echo Zulu said:


> Just got home and saw this thread.
> 
> 
> *16 pages, wow. *
> _
> I haven't read through the thread, just wanted to say that I:_
> 
> Am a teacher
> 
> In a public school
> 
> Not a member of a Union
> 
> I am perfectly fine with the $$ I make
> 
> Love my job-I love my students, my staff and my school.
> 
> 
> I also feel very blessed I get to teach special needs students every day, something I've always wanted to do since I was 13 years old.
> 
> I am also very blessed to have a job where I can spend my holidays and vacations with my daughter, and she never had to have a baby sitter or day care in the summers. We never have a lot of money for vacations, but we do have quality time together, and that to me is the most important thing.
> 
> 
> If you want to judge all teachers by a few bad apples, go ahead, but realize a majority of them LOVE helping change a child's life by teaching them.


Thankyou.


----------



## mdn2000

Dr.Drock said:


> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will always respect most Teachers but i will never respect Democrats and Teacher Unions. They have both destroyed our Public School System. They're behaving like spoiled brats. Not surprising though. The Wisconsin Governor should call their bluff and boot these Teachers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libocalypse maybe it's not how you meant it, but I certainly wouldn't put all the blame on one party, or even an overwhelming majority of it.
Click to expand...


How about putting the blame on one type of ideology, people call themselves lots of different things that does not make them so.


----------



## psikeyhackr

I think it is very backwards.

College professors are much more respected than grade school teachers.

But I think grade school teachers can have more effect on kids lives ultimately but we have some really dumb grade school teachers.  So it is like the system is designed to do the most damage where it can have the greatest effect.

psik


----------



## Douger

bodecea said:


> I have many teachers in my family, both of my Grandmothers were teachers and of my father's family 3 out of 4 were teachers and out of my generation, 6 out of 14 are teachers with another 3 being nurses...and 2 firefighters.  And then 2 of us military.   We have public service in our bloodline.
> 
> And it is amazing to watch how in the last 20 years how teaching has come to be so denigrated.   Why do we wonder at how we compare with other countries and cultures that respect education and educators?


Teachers in murka today don't teach. They babysit and try to keep kids from killing each other. Schools are places to stick your kids while you work and hope they come home alive.
As to your family, much thanks to the three who are of real benefit to the public.


----------



## bodecea

Wicked Jester said:


> JFK_USA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> 
> The greed & politics need to be removed from the Public School System. Teacher Unions add nothing to Public Schools. In fact they only hurt them in the end. Once they decided they were going to be so greedy and start indoctrinating children on being good little future adult Democrats,everything began to collapse. And that's where we are today. Many nations are passing us up in Education. You have to remove the politics & greed. Until this happens,our Public Schools will only continue to crumble further. The Wisconsin Governor should probably be looking for ways to fire these protesting Teachers. It could be a fantastic opportunity to get rid of the greedy political activists in the Schools. I guess we'll see what happens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the only politics that should be in schools is ones you agree with?
> 
> Thats ridiculous. You don't want to remove the greed from banks who steals money from the people, but those greedy 25K a year bastards.
> 
> Seriously, when you leave this world, the average US IQ score will go up 20 points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Seriously, why don't you look at what those teachers are making a year. 45-75 g's on average. Certainly not pocket change.
> 
> Face it, *nobody is trying to take their pay away, their benefits away, their pensions away*. It's time they start digging deeper into their pockets just like everybody in the private sector must do nowadays. They are no better than anybody else. They can most definitely afford it.
Click to expand...


What a grandious lie that is.


----------



## Wicked Jester

bodecea said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JFK_USA said:
> 
> 
> 
> So the only politics that should be in schools is ones you agree with?
> 
> Thats ridiculous. You don't want to remove the greed from banks who steals money from the people, but those greedy 25K a year bastards.
> 
> Seriously, when you leave this world, the average US IQ score will go up 20 points.
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, why don't you look at what those teachers are making a year. 45-75 g's on average. Certainly not pocket change.
> 
> Face it, *nobody is trying to take their pay away, their benefits away, their pensions away*. It's time they start digging deeper into their pockets just like everybody in the private sector must do nowadays. They are no better than anybody else. They can most definitely afford it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a grandious lie that is.
Click to expand...

So, show it's a lie. Show us where the governor wants to take away their pay, benefits, or pensions..........SHOW IT!

And, YOU are the last person who should be calling anybody a liar......LMAO!


----------



## bodecea

Wicked Jester said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, why don't you look at what those teachers are making a year. 45-75 g's on average. Certainly not pocket change.
> 
> Face it, *nobody is trying to take their pay away, their benefits away, their pensions away*. It's time they start digging deeper into their pockets just like everybody in the private sector must do nowadays. They are no better than anybody else. They can most definitely afford it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a grandious lie that is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, show it's a lie. Show us where the governor wants to take away their pay, benefits, or pensions..........SHOW IT!
> 
> And, YOU are the last person who should be calling anybody a liar......LMAO!
Click to expand...


They already took 2% of their pay and they are personally covering MORE of their own health costs....this latest is in addition.


And you are the last person to call me a liar....

(Yeah, not original....but Wicked certainly isn't worth it)


----------



## iamwhatiseem

As with any other profession:
There are good teachers, bad teachers, great teachers and terrible teachers.
The difference however is that due to teacher unions you can't get rid of the bad and terrible ones!
And because of that - the profession has lost a a lot of credibility and respect.


----------



## bodecea

iamwhatiseem said:


> As with any other profession:
> There are good teachers, bad teachers, great teachers and terrible teachers.
> *The difference however is that due to teacher unions you can't get rid of the bad and terrible ones!*And because of that - the profession has lost a a lot of credibility and respect.



Simply not true.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

bodecea said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> As with any other profession:
> There are good teachers, bad teachers, great teachers and terrible teachers.
> *The difference however is that due to teacher unions you can't get rid of the bad and terrible ones!*And because of that - the profession has lost a a lot of credibility and respect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Simply not true.
Click to expand...


Simply true.
The process to fire bad teachers is a truly Herculean task for administrators to take on.
In fact, last years *nationwide* teacher of the year appeared in a documentary showing just how ridiculously hard it is to fire teachers.
In his state it is no less than a 16 step process that also requires the entire board (all members must be present) to meet not once, not twice but three times to access if the teacher should still be fired.


----------



## Wicked Jester

bodecea said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a grandious lie that is.
> 
> 
> 
> So, show it's a lie. Show us where the governor wants to take away their pay, benefits, or pensions..........SHOW IT!
> 
> And, YOU are the last person who should be calling anybody a liar......LMAO!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They already took 2% of their pay and they are personally covering MORE of their own health costs....this latest is in addition.
> 
> 
> And you are the last person to call me a liar....
> 
> (Yeah, not original....but Wicked certainly isn't worth it)
Click to expand...

The union agreed to the 2% cut. No reason for them to bitch about that. And when you are asked to pay more of your own health care coverage, it is an investment in yourself meaning, no pay lost. Same goes for pensions!

Get a fuckin' clue!


----------



## bodecea

iamwhatiseem said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> As with any other profession:
> There are good teachers, bad teachers, great teachers and terrible teachers.
> *The difference however is that due to teacher unions you can't get rid of the bad and terrible ones!*And because of that - the profession has lost a a lot of credibility and respect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Simply not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Simply true.
> The process to fire bad teachers is a truly Herculean task for administrators to take on.
> In fact, last years *nationwide* teacher of the year appeared in a documentary showing just how ridiculously hard it is to fire teachers.
> In his state it is no less than a 16 step process that also requires the entire board (all members must be present) to meet not once, not twice but three times to access if the teacher should still be fired.
Click to expand...


I see you moving your goal posts....

Earlier you said you can't get rid of bad teachers...now you say it's hard....make up your mind...or move those goalposts again.


----------



## bodecea

Wicked Jester said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, show it's a lie. Show us where the governor wants to take away their pay, benefits, or pensions..........SHOW IT!
> 
> And, YOU are the last person who should be calling anybody a liar......LMAO!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They already took 2% of their pay and they are personally covering MORE of their own health costs....this latest is in addition.
> 
> 
> And you are the last person to call me a liar....
> 
> (Yeah, not original....but Wicked certainly isn't worth it)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The union agreed to the 2% cut. No reason for them to bitch about that. And when you are asked to pay more of your own health care coverage, it is an investment in yourself meaning, no pay lost. Same goes for pensions!
> 
> Get a fuckin' clue!
Click to expand...


So you admit that teachers are taking pay cuts....I accept your concession.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

bodecea said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Simply not true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Simply true.
> The process to fire bad teachers is a truly Herculean task for administrators to take on.
> In fact, last years *nationwide* teacher of the year appeared in a documentary showing just how ridiculously hard it is to fire teachers.
> In his state it is no less than a 16 step process that also requires the entire board (all members must be present) to meet not once, not twice but three times to access if the teacher should still be fired.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see you moving your goal posts....
> 
> Earlier you said you can't get rid of bad teachers...now you say it's hard....make up your mind...or move those goalposts again.
Click to expand...


I am not moving anything. I think everyone understands exactly what I said originally and secondly, and it is the same.
You cannot get rid of bad teachers. 
The process is so absurdly hard that administrators don't take a teacher on unless it is something illegal - like dating a student.


----------



## Wicked Jester

bodecea said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> They already took 2% of their pay and they are personally covering MORE of their own health costs....this latest is in addition.
> 
> 
> And you are the last person to call me a liar....
> 
> (Yeah, not original....but Wicked certainly isn't worth it)
> 
> 
> 
> The union agreed to the 2% cut. No reason for them to bitch about that. And when you are asked to pay more of your own health care coverage, it is an investment in yourself meaning, no pay lost. Same goes for pensions!
> 
> Get a fuckin' clue!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you admit that teachers are taking pay cuts....I accept your concession.
Click to expand...

Yes, they did take a NEGOTIATED pay cut. And the governor is not proposing a further pay cut......So, you trying to claim that they are trying to take their pay is dishonest.......No surprise there.

Now, are you going to admit that you made that dishonest claim?


----------



## chanel

He wants a union-free state. Stop with the spin.


----------



## Wicked Jester

chanel said:


> He wants a union-free state. Stop with the spin.


Spin, my ass.......He's telling the teachers and their union that their demands are unstustainable. The state is broke, and sacrifices have to be made. It's not about busting the unions. It's about a common sense approach to dealling with a severe budjet crisis. One of many common sense approaches that are going to have to be made across this country.......The days of people playing the victim card are over.


----------



## chanel

Read the bill.  Watch the news.  In fact, check out O'Reilly - the "no spin zone".  WI will soon become a "right to work state".  If you support that, that's your perogative.  But at least know what you're arguing.


----------



## bodecea

chanel said:


> He wants a union-free state. Stop with the spin.



Remember them complaining that the teachers aren't willing to give back anything...and when it is pointed out they've already taken a pay cut and cut in heathcare benefits...suddenly it's not the same as giving back....these are the kinds of people that either didn't take advantage of education when it was given them...or the kind of people who raise children you worry about.  Maybe both.


----------



## chanel

Besides "moving the goal posts" they are denying the facts.  It's quite bizarre.


----------



## Wicked Jester

bodecea said:


> chanel said:
> 
> 
> 
> He wants a union-free state. Stop with the spin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember them complaining that the teachers aren't willing to give back anything...and when it is pointed out they've already taken a pay cut and cut in heathcare benefits...suddenly it's not the same as giving back....these are the kinds of people that either didn't take advantage of education when it was given them...or the kind of people who raise children you worry about.  Maybe both.
Click to expand...

You're such a snarky lil' dufus.

Here......Just to clarify for your simple lil' mind.

THE...GOVERNOR....IS....NOT....TRYING....TO....TAKE.....AWAY.....THEIR.....PAY.

THEY....NEGOTIATED.....A.....PAY.....CUT.

MEANING......THEY......AGREED......TO......THE.....PAY.....CUT

ALSO.....MEANING.....THEY......HAVE......NO......REASON......TO......BITCH....ABOUT.....IT.

THIS.....IS.....A.....SEPERATE......ISSUE.

IT.....IS.....NOT......ABOUT......TAKING......AWAY......THEIR.....BENEFITS....OR....PENSIONS...EITHER.

IT......IS......ABOUT......THE.......PUBLIC.....SECTOR.......HAVING......TO......BITE.....THE....PROVERBIAL (big word for your simple mind, sorry)......BULLET.

There!....Nice, slow and, to the point. I hope you can wrap your lil' mind around such a difficult thing to understand.

Now, are you going to admit that you were dishonest (no surprise there) when making the claim that the governor is trying to take their pay?


----------



## AllieBaba

bodecea said:


> I have many teachers in my family, both of my Grandmothers were teachers and of my father's family 3 out of 4 were teachers and out of my generation, 6 out of 14 are teachers with another 3 being nurses...and 2 firefighters. And then 2 of us military. We have public service in our bloodline.
> 
> And it is amazing to watch how in the last 20 years how teaching has come to be so denigrated. Why do we wonder at how we compare with other countries and cultures that respect education and educators?


 
What is with you and wanting to be like the rest of the world? Are you that much of a sheep? I guarantee our teachers make a SHITLOAD more money than they make anywhere else...perhaps we should emulate THAT as well.

Teachers have taken a hit because they have unionized themselves out of respectability, honesty, and any sort of sympathy. They get fat on the public tit, and they do a piss poor job of educating. So as their ability and ethics have declined, so has the American view of teachers become more and more jaded and negative.


----------



## bodecea

AllieBaba said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have many teachers in my family, both of my Grandmothers were teachers and of my father's family 3 out of 4 were teachers and out of my generation, 6 out of 14 are teachers with another 3 being nurses...and 2 firefighters. And then 2 of us military. We have public service in our bloodline.
> 
> And it is amazing to watch how in the last 20 years how teaching has come to be so denigrated. Why do we wonder at how we compare with other countries and cultures that respect education and educators?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is with you and wanting to be like the rest of the world? Are you that much of a sheep? I guarantee our teachers make a SHITLOAD more money than they make anywhere else...perhaps we should emulate THAT as well.
> 
> Teachers have taken a hit because they have unionized themselves out of respectability, honesty, and any sort of sympathy. They get fat on the public tit, and they do a piss poor job of educating. So as their ability and ethics have declined, so has the American view of teachers become more and more jaded and negative.
Click to expand...


Yes, you think teachers are criminals.   That is pretty much your stand on it.  We get it.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

chanel said:


> Besides "moving the goal posts" they are denying the facts.  It's quite bizarre.



Your head is stuffed with cabbage.
I moved no goal posts, you and your buddy repeating it doesn't change that.

Extraordinary golden-clad-diamaond encrusted benefit packages helped bankrupt the auto industry and is now bankrupting state governments.

Get over it. It needs to change.


----------



## Wicked Jester

bodecea said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have many teachers in my family, both of my Grandmothers were teachers and of my father's family 3 out of 4 were teachers and out of my generation, 6 out of 14 are teachers with another 3 being nurses...and 2 firefighters. And then 2 of us military. We have public service in our bloodline.
> 
> And it is amazing to watch how in the last 20 years how teaching has come to be so denigrated. Why do we wonder at how we compare with other countries and cultures that respect education and educators?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is with you and wanting to be like the rest of the world? Are you that much of a sheep? I guarantee our teachers make a SHITLOAD more money than they make anywhere else...perhaps we should emulate THAT as well.
> 
> Teachers have taken a hit because they have unionized themselves out of respectability, honesty, and any sort of sympathy. They get fat on the public tit, and they do a piss poor job of educating. So as their ability and ethics have declined, so has the American view of teachers become more and more jaded and negative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, you think teachers are criminals.   That is pretty much your stand on it.  We get it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, when teachers accept doctors notes, fraudulently, they damn sure are criminals......Not that you would care about that. Seeing as though you're nothing more than the A-typical left wing idiot.

And it looks as though there are going to be a whole hell of a lot of teachers and a few doctors who are going to be brought up on criminal charges.......GOOD!......Throw the book at 'em, and make examples of 'em......Let it be known that it's not going to be tolerated......We are a nation of laws. Lets teach those students who were abandonded by those teachers just that!

Lord knows those teachers who are taking those students RIGHT to an education aren't teaching them a damn thing right now, are they? 

And the fact that an A-typical left wing idiot such as yourself defends those criminals, and their abandonment of those students, clearly shows that like those teachers, you don't give a damn about those children either........It's all about screwing anybody you can to fulfill your left wing fantasies. And if it means screwing over the children and their parents, so be it.

People like you are disgusting......Lets just hope you're not a parent. Lord knows you'd be one of those that are part of the problem.


----------



## bodecea

Wicked Jester said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is with you and wanting to be like the rest of the world? Are you that much of a sheep? I guarantee our teachers make a SHITLOAD more money than they make anywhere else...perhaps we should emulate THAT as well.
> 
> Teachers have taken a hit because they have unionized themselves out of respectability, honesty, and any sort of sympathy. They get fat on the public tit, and they do a piss poor job of educating. So as their ability and ethics have declined, so has the American view of teachers become more and more jaded and negative.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you think teachers are criminals.   That is pretty much your stand on it.  We get it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, when teachers accept doctors notes, fraudulently, they damn sure are criminals......Not that you would care about that. Seeing as though you're nothing more than the A-typical left wing idiot.
> 
> And it looks as though there are going to be a whole hell of a lot of teachers and a few doctors who are going to be brought up on criminal charges.......GOOD!......Throw the book at 'em, and make examples of 'em......Let it be known that it's not going to be tolerated......We are a nation of laws. Lets teach those students who were abandonded by those teachers just that!
> 
> Lord knows those teachers who are taking those students RIGHT to an education aren't teaching them a damn thing right now, are they?
> 
> And the fact that an A-typical left wing idiot such as yourself defends those criminals, and their abandonment of those students, clearly shows that like those teachers, you don't give a damn about those children either........It's all about screwing anybody you can to fulfill your left wing fantasies. And if it means screwing over the children and their parents, so be it.
> 
> People like you are disgusting......Lets just hope you're not a parent. Lord knows you'd be one of those that are part of the problem.
Click to expand...



I blame your teachers for your lack of education....as for your obvious lack of class.....well....  They say it's all in how people are raised....or not raised.


----------



## AllieBaba

Again Bod fails to deliver the goods.


----------



## bodecea

AllieBaba said:


> Again Bod fails to deliver the goods.



Ah, so speaks the person calling teachers 'criminals'.   Your school failed you too, I see.


----------



## Wicked Jester

AllieBaba said:


> Again Bod fails to deliver the goods.


Hey, she's one of the idiots who is dishonestly trying to make the claim that the governor is trying to take their pay so, it becomes quite clear that she has no goods to deliver.......Typical lib, nothing more.


----------



## bodecea

Wicked Jester said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again Bod fails to deliver the goods.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, she's one of the idiots who is dishonestly *trying to make the claim that the governor is trying to take their pay* so, it becomes quite clear that she has no goods to deliver.......Typical lib, nothing more.
Click to expand...


And I made that claim in what post, Wicked?


----------



## rdean

Is Teaching a respected Profession in This country?

Not if you are a member of the Republican Party.

I'm a teacher - Oh (famous eye roll)


----------



## bodecea

bodecea said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again Bod fails to deliver the goods.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, she's one of the idiots who is dishonestly *trying to make the claim that the governor is trying to take their pay* so, it becomes quite clear that she has no goods to deliver.......Typical lib, nothing more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And I made that claim in what post, Wicked?
Click to expand...


Surely Wicked has not run away.....again?


----------



## Wicked Jester

bodecea said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, she's one of the idiots who is dishonestly *trying to make the claim that the governor is trying to take their pay* so, it becomes quite clear that she has no goods to deliver.......Typical lib, nothing more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I made that claim in what post, Wicked?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Surely Wicked has not run away.....again?
Click to expand...

Me, run away, from a lying lil douchebag like YOU?.........NEVER!

Nothing for me to prove. Your words on this subject are all over this board, You've proven YET AGAIN, all over this board, that you LIE your ass off.

Look, Butch my boy, if you're going to try and chime in on a subject, know what you are talking about. You seem to just step on your dick, time and time again. You never really seem to have a grasp on the subjects you are chiming in on......Save yourself the trouble of being constantly exposed as a liar. Educate yourself on a subject before making a complete ass of yourself, as you so often do......If ya' can't manage anything beyond your patented, and extremely lame LIES and uppity lesbian one line snarky comments, then don't play.

Just givin' ya' some friendly advice, dude.


----------



## bodecea

Wicked Jester said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I made that claim in what post, Wicked?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Surely Wicked has not run away.....again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Me, run away, from a lying lil douchebag like YOU?.........NEVER!
> 
> *Nothing for me to prove*. Your words on this subject are all over this board, You've proven YET AGAIN, all over this board, that you LIE your ass off.
> 
> Look, Butch my boy, if you're going to try and chime in on a subject, know what you are talking about. You seem to just step on your dick, time and time again. You never really seem to have a grasp on the subjects you are chiming in on......Save yourself the trouble of being constantly exposed as a liar. Educate yourself on a subject before making a complete ass of yourself, as you so often do......If ya' can't manage anything beyond your patented, and extremely lame LIES and uppity lesbian one line snarky comments, then don't play.
> 
> Just givin' ya' some friendly advice, dude.
Click to expand...


*I accept your concession*...all the rest of your blather, just more of your keyboard kommando "I'm so fierce" idiocy.


----------



## Wicked Jester

bodecea said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Surely Wicked has not run away.....again?
> 
> 
> 
> Me, run away, from a lying lil douchebag like YOU?.........NEVER!
> 
> *Nothing for me to prove*. Your words on this subject are all over this board, You've proven YET AGAIN, all over this board, that you LIE your ass off.
> 
> Look, Butch my boy, if you're going to try and chime in on a subject, know what you are talking about. You seem to just step on your dick, time and time again. You never really seem to have a grasp on the subjects you are chiming in on......Save yourself the trouble of being constantly exposed as a liar. Educate yourself on a subject before making a complete ass of yourself, as you so often do......If ya' can't manage anything beyond your patented, and extremely lame LIES and uppity lesbian one line snarky comments, then don't play.
> 
> Just givin' ya' some friendly advice, dude.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *I accept your concession*...all the rest of your blather, just more of your keyboard kommando "I'm so fierce" idiocy.
Click to expand...

Yeah, blah blah blah, yada yada yada.

Now, go off and continue your lies, son.

Hey, they had a MOTOWN NIGHT CONCERT at the WH.....Maybe you can come with a lil' somethin' up about being there, ala The USO show at Miramar that you OBVIOUSLY never attended.

Nothin' worse than a fuckin' LIAR!.


----------



## bodecea

Wicked Jester said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Me, run away, from a lying lil douchebag like YOU?.........NEVER!
> 
> *Nothing for me to prove*. Your words on this subject are all over this board, You've proven YET AGAIN, all over this board, that you LIE your ass off.
> 
> Look, Butch my boy, if you're going to try and chime in on a subject, know what you are talking about. You seem to just step on your dick, time and time again. You never really seem to have a grasp on the subjects you are chiming in on......Save yourself the trouble of being constantly exposed as a liar. Educate yourself on a subject before making a complete ass of yourself, as you so often do......If ya' can't manage anything beyond your patented, and extremely lame LIES and uppity lesbian one line snarky comments, then don't play.
> 
> Just givin' ya' some friendly advice, dude.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I accept your concession*...all the rest of your blather, just more of your keyboard kommando "I'm so fierce" idiocy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Yeah, blah blah blah, yada yada yada*....(rest snipped because just more of the same)
> .
Click to expand...


Glad to see that you recognise all it is you are saying...and its worth.   Most of us have already made note of it.


----------



## Wicked Jester

bodecea said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I accept your concession*...all the rest of your blather, just more of your keyboard kommando "I'm so fierce" idiocy.
> 
> 
> 
> *Yeah, blah blah blah, yada yada yada*....(rest snipped because just more of the same)
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Glad to see that you recognise all it is you are saying...and its worth.   Most of us have already made note of it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, uh huh..........Heard those boos yet, LIAR!...........That's what I thought.


----------



## bodecea

Wicked Jester said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Yeah, blah blah blah, yada yada yada*....(rest snipped because just more of the same)
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to see that you recognise all it is you are saying...and its worth.   Most of us have already made note of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, uh huh..........Heard those boos yet, LIAR!...........That's what I thought.
Click to expand...


Waiting for you to actually make some adult sense, Wicked.


----------



## Wicked Jester

bodecea said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to see that you recognise all it is you are saying...and its worth.   Most of us have already made note of it.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, uh huh..........Heard those boos yet, LIAR!...........That's what I thought.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Waiting for you to actually make some adult sense, Wicked.
Click to expand...

Waiting for you to stop your pathological lying, Bodecea.


----------



## bodecea

Wicked Jester said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, uh huh..........Heard those boos yet, LIAR!...........That's what I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Waiting for you to actually make some adult sense, Wicked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Waiting for you to stop your pathological lying, Bodecea.
Click to expand...


It is fascinating to see you squawk "Liar" with no evidence of my lying.   I guess you were never taught that one should prove their accusations....I blame your teachers again.  You never gained critical thinking skills....along with never gaining the ability to get along with others.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

Seems like a lot of threads comparing teachers to this or that, or are teachers as important as this or that etc.
So I thought I would ask are teachers more important than the rest of us...that they should get extraordinary benefits at our cost.


----------



## Stephanie

Some here think so.

It's like they should be elevated to being saints, so of course they SHOULD have the pay and bennies to match. 

sainthood is tough work, don't ya know.


----------



## Agit8r

"extraordinary benefits"

really?!


----------



## Polk

Agit8r said:


> "extraordinary benefits"
> 
> really?!



Health insurance is an extraordinary benefit.


----------



## Stephanie

yeah, health insurance is a extraordinary benefit, when it's being paid for off the backs of us working stiffs taxpayers.


----------



## Wicked Jester

bodecea said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Waiting for you to actually make some adult sense, Wicked.
> 
> 
> 
> Waiting for you to stop your pathological lying, Bodecea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is fascinating to see you squawk "Liar" with no evidence of my lying.   I guess you were never taught that one should prove their accusations....I blame your teachers again.  You never gained critical thinking skills....along with never gaining the ability to get along with others.
Click to expand...

I get along plent up here, including most lib's.

You are a pathological liar. Just admit it.

You prove those accusations yourself....Deal with it!


----------



## Stephanie

rdean said:


> Is Teaching a respected Profession in This country?
> 
> Not if you are a member of the Republican Party.
> 
> I'm a teacher - Oh (famous eye roll)
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9lA1s4LUYA



For crying out loud, grow up.


----------



## Polk

Stephanie said:


> yeah, health insurance is a extraordinary benefit, when it being for off the backs of us working stiffs taxpayers.



In that case, I hope you're planning to give back the money the government provides for your healthcare.


----------



## shintao

iamwhatiseem said:


> Seems like a lot of threads comparing teachers to this or that, or are teachers as important as this or that etc.
> So I thought I would ask are teachers more important than the rest of us...that they should get extraordinary benefits at our cost.



I think teachers are very important, if they give an education that results in a student becoming a professional with a degree. You have to decide, do you want a society in which you are surrounded by incompetent workers or public? Who decides to keep you alive, or doesn't know how? You are playing with your families life when you make these kinds of decisions. Did the policeman have the ability to read the warrant of the street address, or did he bust your door down and shoot you? That happens. Do you want a society that can read road signs, or the DMV booklet, or go the wrong way on the freeway and take your family out. Education is extremely important, and you are already getting teachers dirt cheap. Do the math.

Be careful of who is adjusting your mothers drip or giving her CCs of shots, that they are educated.


----------



## bodecea

Stephanie said:


> Some here think so.
> 
> It's like they should be elevated to being saints, so of course they SHOULD have the pay and bennies to match.
> 
> sainthood is tough work, don't ya know.



No, they are not....but am looking forward to your list of who here thinks thay are.


----------



## Zander

Nope. As a group they are average people.


----------



## rdean

More important than most Republicans.  Based on "contributions to the country", almost everyone else is "more important".


----------



## rdean

Zander said:


> Nope. As a group they are average people.



Bush never included the cost of either war or his "drugs for votes" program in any of his budgets.

Can't you guys ever be "honest".  Are you allergic to "facts"?


----------



## iamwhatiseem

Agit8r said:


> "extraordinary benefits"
> 
> really?!



Umm...yes.
Extraordinary means "out of the ordinary" or "above the usual".
So yes - extraordinary is quite correct.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

shintao said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like a lot of threads comparing teachers to this or that, or are teachers as important as this or that etc.
> So I thought I would ask are teachers more important than the rest of us...that they should get extraordinary benefits at our cost.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think teachers are very important, if they give an education that results in a student becoming a professional with a degree. You have to decide, do you want a society in which you are surrounded by incompetent workers or public? Who decides to keep you alive, or doesn't know how? You are playing with your families life when you make these kinds of decisions. Did the policeman have the ability to read the warrant of the street address, or did he bust your door down and shoot you? That happens. Do you want a society that can read road signs, or the DMV booklet, or go the wrong way on the freeway and take your family out. Education is extremely important, and you are already getting teachers dirt cheap. Do the math.
> 
> Be careful of who is adjusting your mothers drip or giving her CCs of shots, that they are educated.
Click to expand...


Pheh.
Success breeds success. Out of leadership comes leaders.
People who graduate from college are only marginally prepared for the world.
If they do a lot of good in their respective vocation - I guarantee you if you ask them what do they think made them successful - there is always that one or two people they worked for where they learned a lot from.
I am not trying to diminish teachers, although I would make a successful argument that their influence on society is no greater than the experience and leadership that they meet AFTER their education.
Teachers ARE important.
But they are not special, and therefore do not deserve special benefits that are not regularly available to any other important vocation.


----------



## bodecea

Wicked Jester said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Waiting for you to stop your pathological lying, Bodecea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is fascinating to see you squawk "Liar" with no evidence of my lying.   I guess you were never taught that one should prove their accusations....I blame your teachers again.  You never gained critical thinking skills....along with never gaining the ability to get along with others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I get along plent up here, including most lib's.
Click to expand...


Of course you do.....



> You are a pathological liar. Just admit it.
> 
> You prove those accusations yourself....Deal with it!



How easy it is to make some accusation without proof....easy, lazy, requiring no critical thinking SKILLS, no effort, no expections of honesty on your part.   Pretty much your M.O., Wicked.


----------



## percysunshine

Everyone has the opportunity to teach. Getting paid for doing it is icing on the cake....unless some asshole kid won't listen....chuckle


----------



## Cain

By parents & adults, I'd say Yes. Students, no. 

I want to teach someday, maybe in 30 years, after I retire, at either a College or a Academy. I do not ever want to teach at a public school, I have grown up never setting foot in a 'private' institution but from what I've heard, much better off teaching at one, punishment here is a joke. You send a student to either:

A) ISS
B) A-School

Either way, their just going to be with other students, some worse then them, and have a great old time. I've been in ISS it's basically silence and write-off's for hours and hours, but to be honest, it doesn't change people.


----------



## Chris

Yes, the teachers are our enemies! Not the Republicans who created 93% of the National Debt by lowering taxes for the rich. Not Wall Street who created a $53 TRILLION DOLLAR derivative bubble. It's the teachers in Wisconsin who are making 46K a year! They are the enemy! 

God, is this country stupid or what?


----------



## Agit8r

iamwhatiseem said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> "extraordinary benefits"
> 
> really?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Umm...yes.
> Extraordinary means "out of the ordinary" or "above the usual".
> So yes - extraordinary is quite correct.
Click to expand...


So if everybody had health coverage and a pension like in all those European countries that spend less "on education" then you would be ok with it?


----------



## Sherry

My first teaching contract back in the mid 90's was at a school in rural SW Missouri. I cleared $1,150 a month, and it was cheaper to be on my husband's insurance. However, I went into the teaching profession with my eyes wide open, and never expected to get rich from teaching. Imagine my amazement when I found out there were parts of the country where teachers were making triple my salary, and not for triple the cost of living. Aside from that, the union bosses are some of the greediest assholes in this country, and cloak themselves as "do-gooders" for the workers.


----------



## pete

Stephanie said:


> yeah, health insurance is a extraordinary benefit, when it's being paid for off the backs of us working stiffs taxpayers.


Exactly .. we pay our own and theirs and all the entitlement leaches


----------



## NYcarbineer

Stephanie said:


> yeah, health insurance is a extraordinary benefit, when it's being paid for off the backs of us working stiffs taxpayers.



How much did you pay in state/federal income tax this year?


----------



## NYcarbineer

Zander said:


> Nope. As a group they are average people.



No.  The average American does not have a 4 or 6 year college degree, with specific training for a specific profession, and is working in that profession.

Teachers are well above 'average'.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

Sherry said:


> My first teaching contract back in the mid 90's was at a school in rural SW Missouri. I cleared $1,150 a month, and it was cheaper to be on my husband's insurance. However, I went into the teaching profession with my eyes wide open, and never expected to get rich from teaching. Imagine my amazement when I found out there were parts of the country where teachers were making triple my salary, and not for triple the cost of living. Aside from that, the union bosses are some of the greediest assholes in this country, and cloak themselves as "do-gooders" for the workers.



 I think one way to judge the character of a teacher is to ask them what they think of two things:
1) The dept. of Education
2) Teachers unions

  I honestly don't think I could do it. I couldn't stand to bear the shackles of the DoE nor the hyper political sensitive administrators.


----------



## Stephanie

NYcarbineer said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, health insurance is a extraordinary benefit, when it's being paid for off the backs of us working stiffs taxpayers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much did you pay in state/federal income tax this year?
Click to expand...


I would tell you if I thought it was any of your FRIGGEN BUSINESS.


----------



## bodecea

Cain said:


> By parents & adults, I'd say Yes. Students, no.
> 
> I want to teach someday, maybe in 30 years, after I retire, at either a College or a Academy. I do not ever want to teach at a public school, I have grown up never setting foot in a 'private' institution but from what I've heard, much better off teaching at one, punishment here is a joke. You send a student to either:
> 
> A) ISS
> B) A-School
> 
> Either way, their just going to be with other students, some worse then them, and have a great old time. I've been in ISS it's basically silence and write-off's for hours and hours, but to be honest, it doesn't change people.



In this day, I would never recommend teaching to anyone.  Don't do it.


----------



## NYcarbineer

The Right despises educators because it's the educators who spill the Beans, with evil tales, like,

the earth is not really 6000 years old, 

and all the world's wisdom did not really come from a magic apple given to a naked woman,

by a talking snake.


----------



## Agit8r

NYcarbineer said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. As a group they are average people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.  The average American does not have a 4 or 6 year college degree, with specific training for a specific profession, and is working in that profession.
> 
> Teachers are well above 'average'.
Click to expand...


and to think... some of us have health insurance and a retirement account without having a bachelors degree, or doing anything particularly meaningful

...just sayin'


----------



## NYcarbineer

Stephanie said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, health insurance is a extraordinary benefit, when it's being paid for off the backs of us working stiffs taxpayers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much did you pay in state/federal income tax this year?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would tell you if I thought it was any of your FRIGGEN BUSINESS.
Click to expand...


You made your taxes the board's business when you complained about them on the board.

Comon, at least make up a big number that makes it look like you actually pay taxes.


----------



## bodecea

iamwhatiseem said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> My first teaching contract back in the mid 90's was at a school in rural SW Missouri. I cleared $1,150 a month, and it was cheaper to be on my husband's insurance. However, I went into the teaching profession with my eyes wide open, and never expected to get rich from teaching. Imagine my amazement when I found out there were parts of the country where teachers were making triple my salary, and not for triple the cost of living. Aside from that, the union bosses are some of the greediest assholes in this country, and cloak themselves as "do-gooders" for the workers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think one way to judge the character of a teacher is to ask them what they think of two things:
> *1) The dept. of Education
> 2) Teachers unions*  I honestly don't think I could do it. I couldn't stand to bear the shackles of the DoE nor the hyper political sensitive administrators.
Click to expand...


And how would those questions judge the character of a teacher?   OR would it be more...see if that teacher agrees with you or not?


----------



## Stephanie

NYcarbineer said:


> The Right despises educators because it's the educators who spill the Beans, with evil tales, like,
> 
> the earth is not really 6000 years old,
> 
> and all the world's wisdom did not really come from a magic apple given to a naked woman,
> 
> by a talking snake.



holy moly. did your teachers teach you all this.?


----------



## NYcarbineer

Agit8r said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. As a group they are average people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.  The average American does not have a 4 or 6 year college degree, with specific training for a specific profession, and is working in that profession.
> 
> Teachers are well above 'average'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and to think... some of us have health insurance and a retirement account without having a bachelors degree, or doing anything particularly meaningful
> 
> ...just sayin'
Click to expand...


Every conservative on this board has great health insurance, remember the healthcare debate?  They all LOVE the pre-Obamacare status quo.


----------



## AllieBaba

Yes, well, you're an idiot, so we'll treat that suggestion accordingly.


----------



## Zander

NYcarbineer said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. As a group they are average people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.  The average American does not have a 4 or 6 year college degree, with specific training for a specific profession, and is working in that profession.
> 
> Teachers are well above 'average'.
Click to expand...


You are right. Most just people aren't stupid enough to go to school for 4 years (and enter into massive debt obligations)  merely to earn a piece of paper that entiitles them to make essentially the same wages that you can make at the Post office - with no college debt.   Yeah, a really smart group there.....

I amend my statement. Teachers, as a group,  are below average.


----------



## Cain

bodecea said:


> Cain said:
> 
> 
> 
> By parents & adults, I'd say Yes. Students, no.
> 
> I want to teach someday, maybe in 30 years, after I retire, at either a College or a Academy. I do not ever want to teach at a public school, I have grown up never setting foot in a 'private' institution but from what I've heard, much better off teaching at one, punishment here is a joke. You send a student to either:
> 
> A) ISS
> B) A-School
> 
> Either way, their just going to be with other students, some worse then them, and have a great old time. I've been in ISS it's basically silence and write-off's for hours and hours, but to be honest, it doesn't change people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In this day, I would never recommend teaching to anyone.  Don't do it.
Click to expand...


I am 18 years old bud, I still have a LONG time before I'd even be able to teach, so I'll make up my mind then, for now, I have to get ready for Basic lol.


----------



## bodecea

Zander said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. As a group they are average people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.  The average American does not have a 4 or 6 year college degree, with specific training for a specific profession, and is working in that profession.
> 
> Teachers are well above 'average'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are right. Most just people aren't stupid enough to go to school for 4 years (and enter into massive debt obligations)  merely to earn a piece of paper that entiitles them to make essentially the same wages that you can make at the Post office - with no college debt.   Yeah, a really smart group there.....
> 
> I amend my statement. Teachers, as a group,  are below average.
Click to expand...


Five years....


----------



## Zander

bodecea said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  The average American does not have a 4 or 6 year college degree, with specific training for a specific profession, and is working in that profession.
> 
> Teachers are well above 'average'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are right. Most just people aren't stupid enough to go to school for 4 years (and enter into massive debt obligations)  merely to earn a piece of paper that entiitles them to make essentially the same wages that you can make at the Post office - with no college debt.   Yeah, a really smart group there.....
> 
> I amend my statement. Teachers, as a group,  are below average.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Five years....
Click to expand...


5 years = exceptionally dumb. 

Amendment amended: Teachers, as a group, are well below average.


----------



## Polk

Zander said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are right. Most just people aren't stupid enough to go to school for 4 years (and enter into massive debt obligations)  merely to earn a piece of paper that entiitles them to make essentially the same wages that you can make at the Post office - with no college debt.   Yeah, a really smart group there.....
> 
> I amend my statement. Teachers, as a group,  are below average.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Five years....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 5 years = exceptionally dumb.
> 
> Amendment amended: Teachers, as a group, are well below average.
Click to expand...


I would agree. If you pay people far less than they could make it other fields, why would they go into education?


----------



## Zander

Teaching as we know it, is going to go the way of the Dodo bird.  The internet explosion eliminates the need for massive facilities (baby sitting anyone?) , adminstration, school lunches, etc..  One teacher can teach millions of kids how to read. One teacher can teach millions of children how to do arithmatic. The student of the future will log on from home - watch a video lesson and take a test. They will even be able to ask questions and get answers to their questions (an added bonus is that the answers will be correct!).  It will be efficient, effectivie, and far less costly.

Anyone considering a career in education should reconsider...


----------



## Wicked Jester

bodecea said:


> Cain said:
> 
> 
> 
> By parents & adults, I'd say Yes. Students, no.
> 
> I want to teach someday, maybe in 30 years, after I retire, at either a College or a Academy. I do not ever want to teach at a public school, I have grown up never setting foot in a 'private' institution but from what I've heard, much better off teaching at one, punishment here is a joke. You send a student to either:
> 
> A) ISS
> B) A-School
> 
> Either way, their just going to be with other students, some worse then them, and have a great old time. I've been in ISS it's basically silence and write-off's for hours and hours, but to be honest, it doesn't change people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In this day, I would never recommend teaching to anyone.  Don't do it.
Click to expand...

Why, because they are now being held accountable for their role in our lousy public education system?

Because PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHERS who take students to mosques and allow the students to pray are being held accountable.....Because PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHERS who shove their politics down the throats of the children (MMM MMM MMM, Barack Hussein Obama), are being held accountable for such stupid shit.....Because a PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER showed the sexual parts of " BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN" last month to his class of thirteen year olds, thereby unleashing a firestorm from parents who aren't going to put up with that bullshit anymore?

Yeah, we know why, Bodecea.


----------



## Polk

Zander said:


> Teaching as we know it, is going to go the way of the Dodo bird.  The internet explosion eliminates the need for massive facilities (baby sitting anyone?) , adminstration, school lunches, etc..  One teacher can teach millions of kids how to read. One teacher can teach millions of children how to do arithmatic. The student of the future will log on from home - watch a video lesson and take a test. They will even be able to ask questions and get answers to their questions (ad added bonus is that the answers will be correct!).  It will be efficient, effectivie, and far less costly.
> 
> Anyone considering a career in education should reconsider...



I wouldn't be so sure about that, though things along those lines will become more common.


----------



## bodecea

Polk said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Five years....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5 years = exceptionally dumb.
> 
> Amendment amended: Teachers, as a group, are well below average.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would agree. If you pay people far less than they could make it other fields, why would they go into education?
Click to expand...


Within 5 years, 50% do leave the field.


----------



## Polk

bodecea said:


> Polk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> 5 years = exceptionally dumb.
> 
> Amendment amended: Teachers, as a group, are well below average.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would agree. If you pay people far less than they could make it other fields, why would they go into education?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Within 5 years, 50% do leave the field.
Click to expand...


Exactly. We need changes that:

1. Pay good teachers more.
2. Make it easier to fire bad ones.


----------



## WorldWatcher

Wicked Jester said:


> Because a PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER showed the sexual parts of " BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN" last month to his class of thirteen year olds, thereby unleashing a firestorm from parents who aren't going to put up with that bullshit anymore?




I'm probably going to regret this as I really do think public school teachers need to be held more accountable and when they screw up the union shouldn't be all about protecting bad teachers.

However the person in the classroom that showed Brokeback Mountain was not a regular teacher, the person was a substitute filling in for the regular teacher.  Normally substitutes are not regular employees of the district (as in Full Time or Part Time).  Typically they are temporary employees called in as needed to fill a vacancy when a teacher is required to be absent.

Again, I'm not excusing what happened, the person should definitely be permanently fired and barred from working in the classroom for displaying poor professionalism and the school district has responsibility for the actions of the substitute working that day.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,271935,00.html



>>>>


----------



## bodecea

Polk said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Teaching as we know it, is going to go the way of the Dodo bird.  The internet explosion eliminates the need for massive facilities (baby sitting anyone?) , adminstration, school lunches, etc..  One teacher can teach millions of kids how to read. One teacher can teach millions of children how to do arithmatic. The student of the future will log on from home - watch a video lesson and take a test. They will even be able to ask questions and get answers to their questions (ad added bonus is that the answers will be correct!).  It will be efficient, effectivie, and far less costly.
> 
> Anyone considering a career in education should reconsider...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't be so sure about that, though things along those lines will become more common.
Click to expand...


Who is going to keep the kids working at those internets?


----------



## Cain

I just hope I can retire out of the USAF in 20-30 years and teach at a War College, or a military Academy. A place where discipline is more in the system then a public school. I couldn't imagine teaching at a public high school. Plus I doubt their are many with Military History as a class lol. (Accidentally typed 'ass' instead of as after Military History lol).


----------



## Wicked Jester

workwatcher said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because a PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER showed the sexual parts of " BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN" last month to his class of thirteen year olds, thereby unleashing a firestorm from parents who aren't going to put up with that bullshit anymore?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably going to regret this as I really do think public school teachers need to be held more accountable and when they screw up the union shouldn't be all about protecting bad teachers.
> 
> However the person in the classroom that showed Brokeback Mountain was not a regular teacher, the person was a substitute filling in for the regular teacher.  Normally substitutes are not regular employees of the district (as in Full Time or Part Time).  Typically they are temporary employees called in as needed to fill a vacancy when a teacher is required to be absent.
> 
> Again, I'm not excusing what happened, the person should definitely be permanently fired and barred from working in the classroom for displaying poor professionalism and the school district has responsibility for the actions of the substitute working that day.
> 
> Chicago Board of Ed Sued for Teacher Allegedly Showing 'Brokeback Mountain' in Class - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com
> 
> 
> 
> >>>>
Click to expand...

He was a union teacher referred by the union........Fact of the matter is, this kind of crap is going on in our public schools everyday. Go on Youtube, and you'll find never ending evidence of what is going on.

This kind of crap wasn't going on when I went to public school. We were taught the basics. We didn't have political ideals shoved down our throats. We weren't taught BS revisionist history......I'm sick and tired of hearing the, "It's all the parents fault. The teachers are the greatest!. How dare you question the teachers!"

Lets face it, the liberal agenda is permeating our public schools. And IT IS a reason for the failures we are seeing. Yeah, there are parents who need to be held accountable, no doubt. But the fact of the matter is, the evidence towards the liberal agenda cannot be overlooked. It's real, and the evidence is there.

Bottom line, there is no reason whatsoever for religion, politics, sexual preference etc., to be shoved down our childrens throats in a PUBLIC SCHOOL SETTING.


----------



## Annie

I've not read through this thread, I had read some earlier and now I've read some on the back end. 

I love teaching, I'm doing all I can to find a permanent position. I love subbing and would never consider showing any video not given by the teacher I'm subbing for. If told to show something like Brokeback Mtn., I'd go to the chair first, if not helpful I'd go to the principal. So would every sub I've worked with. 

With that said, in all but one class where the teacher was taken out by ambulance, I've walked into a classroom with well prepared lessons and kids wanting to learn. Nearly all the teachers I've known have been professional in their behavior and preparing for classes. I'll bet up to a couple weeks ago, that was true of most of the teachers in WI. However at some point they decided that their union was more important that the kids. It was a choice I would not have made, though I'm certain some teachers here would.

In my area teachers are not underpaid, they make considerably more than those with equivalent education. That doesn't mean they have it easy, they don't. But they also are not bored while answering phones in an office or filling out forms for a company. They are not in most schools in danger, contrary to the man bites dog stories we read about. In 2007-2008 school year, the lowest avg salary was over $38k, the only state that was in the 30's. My state avg was over $60k and that was 4 school years ago. 

I think it's time we stop acting like teachers are facing bullets and fists at every turn. Once in 15 years have I dealt with a physical altercation and all of my teaching experience has been in middle and high schools, including 3 years in a low income public high school. Of course there are exceptions, but there are those at post offices and office buildings too. Not nearly as many security measures are taken after the fact at locations other than schools. 

I'm tired of people claiming that teachers are showing dirty videos, encouraging sex amongst the kids, that we all are indoctrinating them into some hedonistic future. I'm equally sick of arguments that teachers are grossly underpaid, self-sacrificing angels that live altruistic lives. That students are dangerous and all are unmotivated. That parents don't care about their kids or their education. 

All the above are caricatures with little basis of reality, based upon partisan views with some anecdotal examples. Most teachers are decent, many are very good, some are exceptional, a few should not be in a classroom or babysitting. Same with the students. Same with the parents. 

Bodecea keeps posting about teachers lasting an average of 5 years. I don't doubt that, most teachers are female and graduate at 21 or 22. Many leave a few years after that for pregnancies, moving to another location, find that the work isn't for them, often return to school to move into another career or administration. Most teachers that can't teach or control the classroom, (same result), usually leave after 1 or 2 years. They should leave. 

Inner city schools and rural schools are going to have more turnover because of burn out and resources. However, most schools are not inner city or rural.


----------



## WorldWatcher

Wicked Jester said:


> workwatcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because a PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER showed the sexual parts of " BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN" last month to his class of thirteen year olds, thereby unleashing a firestorm from parents who aren't going to put up with that bullshit anymore?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably going to regret this as I really do think public school teachers need to be held more accountable and when they screw up the union shouldn't be all about protecting bad teachers.
> 
> However the person in the classroom that showed Brokeback Mountain was not a regular teacher, the person was a substitute filling in for the regular teacher.  Normally substitutes are not regular employees of the district (as in Full Time or Part Time).  Typically they are temporary employees called in as needed to fill a vacancy when a teacher is required to be absent.
> 
> Again, I'm not excusing what happened, the person should definitely be permanently fired and barred from working in the classroom for displaying poor professionalism and the school district has responsibility for the actions of the substitute working that day.
> 
> Chicago Board of Ed Sued for Teacher Allegedly Showing 'Brokeback Mountain' in Class - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com
> 
> 
> 
> >>>>
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was a union teacher referred by the union....
Click to expand...



Thank you for that item of information, I'll file it away for future reference and will modify my perception of the situation accordingly.

Would you have reference that supports that?




Most of our subs are not professionally certified, although we do have some retired teachers who are certified who keep there toes in the water or are willing to fill in during a long term absence (surgery, maternity, etc...)

Thanks in advance.


WW


>>>>


----------



## iamwhatiseem

bodecea said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> My first teaching contract back in the mid 90's was at a school in rural SW Missouri. I cleared $1,150 a month, and it was cheaper to be on my husband's insurance. However, I went into the teaching profession with my eyes wide open, and never expected to get rich from teaching. Imagine my amazement when I found out there were parts of the country where teachers were making triple my salary, and not for triple the cost of living. Aside from that, the union bosses are some of the greediest assholes in this country, and cloak themselves as "do-gooders" for the workers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think one way to judge the character of a teacher is to ask them what they think of two things:
> *1) The dept. of Education
> 2) Teachers unions*  I honestly don't think I could do it. I couldn't stand to bear the shackles of the DoE nor the hyper political sensitive administrators.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And how would those questions judge the character of a teacher?   OR would it be more...see if that teacher agrees with you or not?
Click to expand...


That's easy.
The Dept. of Education is a failure in every single problem they were suppose to alleviate.
They cannot speak of ANY successes in their entire existence.
Teachers unions make it next to impossible to get rid of bad teachers.

Soo...it is clear that if a teachers priority is education students - that they couldn't possibly support either one.


----------



## bodecea

workwatcher said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> workwatcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably going to regret this as I really do think public school teachers need to be held more accountable and when they screw up the union shouldn't be all about protecting bad teachers.
> 
> However the person in the classroom that showed Brokeback Mountain was not a regular teacher, the person was a substitute filling in for the regular teacher.  Normally substitutes are not regular employees of the district (as in Full Time or Part Time).  Typically they are temporary employees called in as needed to fill a vacancy when a teacher is required to be absent.
> 
> Again, I'm not excusing what happened, the person should definitely be permanently fired and barred from working in the classroom for displaying poor professionalism and the school district has responsibility for the actions of the substitute working that day.
> 
> Chicago Board of Ed Sued for Teacher Allegedly Showing 'Brokeback Mountain' in Class - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com
> 
> 
> 
> >>>>
> 
> 
> 
> He was a union teacher referred by the union....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for that item of information, I'll file it away for future reference and will modify my perception of the situation accordingly.
> 
> Would you have reference that supports that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most of our subs are not professionally certified, although we do have some retired teachers who are certified who keep there toes in the water or are willing to fill in during a long term absence (surgery, maternity, etc...)
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> WW
> 
> 
> >>>>
Click to expand...


I would like to see his evidence that that sub was a Union teacher also.   Around here, subs are not....only if they get contracts to teach from the district do they join the union...it's pretty obvious they can't join yet because subs usually work in more than one district at a time, signing up with 4-5 depending on how many calls they can get to keep busy.


----------



## bodecea

iamwhatiseem said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think one way to judge the character of a teacher is to ask them what they think of two things:
> *1) The dept. of Education
> 2) Teachers unions*  I honestly don't think I could do it. I couldn't stand to bear the shackles of the DoE nor the hyper political sensitive administrators.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And how would those questions judge the character of a teacher?   OR would it be more...see if that teacher agrees with you or not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's easy.
> The Dept. of Education is a failure in every single problem they were suppose to alleviate.
> They cannot speak of ANY successes in their entire existence.
> Teachers unions make it next to impossible to get rid of bad teachers.
> 
> Soo...it is clear that if a teachers priority is education students - that they couldn't possibly support either one.
Click to expand...


In your opinion.


----------



## bodecea

Mr Clean said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> After seeing the way the kids treat teachers in middle school and high school, my answer is no.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That aspect of the job alone earns my respect.
Click to expand...


I would be amused to see the Governor of WI and the Republican members of their state congress fill in the classroom a few days.   That would make for some funny theater.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

bodecea said:


> In your opinion.



Which is logical.


----------



## psikeyhackr

I was told to respect teachers as a kid but for the most part they did not live up to their PR.

Education and indoctrination are not the same thing.  Most of the teachers I had were indoctrinators not educators and although I was mostly courteous to them I did not respect them.  

I got more useful information from books that I had to find on my own than from teachers.

This is the most hilarious indictment of education that I have ever seen.


And that was from the late 80s and they keep calling those people EDUCATED.  Our concept of education is EXTREMELY Cultural but how reality works does not care about any culture.  If global warming is happening then culture won't matter.  The humanities and sociology people don't accept that hard science trumps them.  I bought this book back then:

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Cultural-Literacy-Every-American-Needs/dp/0394758439]Amazon.com: Cultural Literacy: What Every American Needs to Know (9780394758435): E.D. Hirsch Jr.: Books[/ame]
.
.
Though I could probably pass the cultural literacy tests I thought the list was really dumb.  The Battle of Hastings was more important than the Moon landing.  This fixation on the past is about slowing down the future.  The future is about to body slam us.

So now we have all of these miseducated kids that are supposed to respect teachers that have wasted their time on junk.

psik


----------



## bodecea

iamwhatiseem said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> In your opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is logical.
Click to expand...


To you.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

bodecea said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> In your opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is logical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To you.
Click to expand...


No. To anyone who is logical.
You tell me, in any way, how the Dept. of Edu could be considered a success on even a small level.
The department was developed, and then revamped by President Carter to address very specific problems - namely improve drop out rates as an example.
Not one - not one - of the D.O.E. charter outlines have they improved or eliminated.
You tell me how it would be illogical to state that they are unsuccessful.

yeah.


----------



## boedicca

Zander said:


> Teaching as we know it, is going to go the way of the Dodo bird.  The internet explosion eliminates the need for massive facilities (baby sitting anyone?) , adminstration, school lunches, etc..  One teacher can teach millions of kids how to read. One teacher can teach millions of children how to do arithmatic. The student of the future will log on from home - watch a video lesson and take a test. They will even be able to ask questions and get answers to their questions (an added bonus is that the answers will be correct!).  It will be efficient, effectivie, and far less costly.
> 
> Anyone considering a career in education should reconsider...





And the sooner the better.

Texas has an initiative to lower the cost of an undergraduate degree to $10,000 in total.   The internet should be able to drive that cost down even further.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

iamwhatiseem said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which is logical.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No. To anyone who is logical.
> You tell me, in any way, how the Dept. of Edu could be considered a success on even a small level.
> The department was developed, and then revamped by President Carter to address very specific problems - namely improve drop out rates as an example.
> Not one - not one - of the D.O.E. charter outlines have they improved or eliminated.
> You tell me how it would be illogical to state that they are unsuccessful.
> 
> yeah.
Click to expand...


*chirp*  *chirp*


----------



## bodecea

boedicca said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Teaching as we know it, is going to go the way of the Dodo bird.  The internet explosion eliminates the need for massive facilities (baby sitting anyone?) , adminstration, school lunches, etc..  One teacher can teach millions of kids how to read. One teacher can teach millions of children how to do arithmatic. The student of the future will log on from home - watch a video lesson and take a test. They will even be able to ask questions and get answers to their questions (an added bonus is that the answers will be correct!).  It will be efficient, effectivie, and far less costly.
> 
> Anyone considering a career in education should reconsider...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the sooner the better.
> 
> Texas has an initiative to lower the cost of an undergraduate degree to $10,000 in total.   The internet should be able to drive that cost down even further.
Click to expand...



Internet degrees....  Yeah, people are gonna stay honest with those.


----------



## Momanohedhunter

Nothing but respect for my kids teachers.


----------



## llumina

I think that you are absolutely wrong.Teaching is a great and respective job.


----------



## chanel

> "Did you hear about the new state program to measure effectiveness of dentists with their young patients?" I said.
> 
> "It's quite simple," I said. "They will just count the number of cavities each patient has at age 10, 14, and 18 and average that to determine a dentist's rating. Dentists will be rated as Excellent, Good, Average, Below average, and Unsatisfactory. That way parents will know which are the best dentists. It will also encourage the less effective dentists to get better. Poor dentists who don't improve could lose their licenses to practice."
> 
> Don't you think we should try to improve children's dental health in this state?"
> 
> "Don't you see that dentists don't all work with the same clientele; so much depends on things we can't control? For example, I work in a rural area with a high percentage of patients from deprived homes, while some of my colleagues work in upper middle class neighborhoods. Many of the parents I work with don't bring their children see me until there is some problem and I don't get to do much preventive work. Also," he said, "many of the parents I serve let their kids eat way too much candy from an early age, unlike more educated parents who understand the relationship between sugar and decay. To top it all off, so many of my clients have well water which is untreated and has no fluoride in it. Do you have any idea how much difference early use of fluoride can make?"
> 
> "It sounds like you're making excuses," I said. I couldn't believe my dentist would be so defensive. He does a great job.
> 
> "I am not!" he said. "My best patients are as good as anyone's, my work is as good as anyone's, but my average cavity count is going higher than a lot of other dentists because I chose to work where I am needed most. In a system like this, I will end up being rated average, below average, or worse. My more educated patients who see these ratings may believe this so-called rating actually is a measure of my ability and proficiency as a dentist. They may leave me, and I'll be left with only the most needy patients. And my cavity average score will get even worse. On top of that, how will I attract good dental hygienists and other excellent dentists to my practice if it is labeled below average?"
> 
> "I think you are overreacting," I said. "Complaining, excuse making and stonewalling won't improve dental health... I am quoting from a leading member of the DOC," I noted.
> 
> "What's the DOC?" he asked.
> 
> "It's the Dental Oversight Committee," I said, "a group made up of mostly laypersons to make sure dentistry in this state gets improved."
> 
> "How else would you measure good dentistry?" "Come watch me work," he said. "Observe my processes." "That's too complicated and time consuming," I said. "Cavities are the bottom line, and you can't argue with the bottom line. It's an absolute measure."
> 
> "You don't get it," he said. "Doing this would be like grading schools and teachers on an average score on a test of children's progress without regard to influences outside the school, the home, the community served and stuff like that. Why would they do something so unfair to dentists? No one would ever think of doing that to schools."



Comments on N.J. residents support factoring student test scores into teacher evaluations, poll finds | New Jersey Real-Time News - Page 7 -


----------



## Annie

bodecea said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Teaching as we know it, is going to go the way of the Dodo bird.  The internet explosion eliminates the need for massive facilities (baby sitting anyone?) , adminstration, school lunches, etc..  One teacher can teach millions of kids how to read. One teacher can teach millions of children how to do arithmatic. The student of the future will log on from home - watch a video lesson and take a test. They will even be able to ask questions and get answers to their questions (an added bonus is that the answers will be correct!).  It will be efficient, effectivie, and far less costly.
> 
> Anyone considering a career in education should reconsider...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the sooner the better.
> 
> Texas has an initiative to lower the cost of an undergraduate degree to $10,000 in total.   The internet should be able to drive that cost down even further.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Internet degrees....  Yeah, people are gonna stay honest with those.
Click to expand...


Oh because the brick and mortar have been so careful with honesty?  As for allowing the private sector bringing market forces to bear, seems the DOE has some explaining to do. This certainly wasn't for 'the children' or the taxpayers:

Insider Trading at the Department of Education? - ProfessorBainbridge.com


----------



## bodecea

Here's what is what should happen if we want to compare ourselves apples to apples with other countries.   These are the students we measure:

1.  Those truely gifted and motivated regardless of their real life situation and work very hard to succeed in school.

2.  Those marginally gifted and motivated, but who have parents who push them relentlessly to succeed in school.

3.  Those marginally gifted and motivated, but who have money to buy the best schools, tutors, degrees that show them having succeeded in school.


All others...fall by the wayside to low end jobs.


----------



## editec

*



Is Teaching a respected Profession in This country?

Click to expand...

 
Clearly not!

In this Mammon-worshipping society respect is granted based mostly on income.


*


----------



## Unkotare

Zander said:


> Teaching as we know it, is going to go the way of the Dodo bird.  The internet explosion eliminates the need for massive facilities (baby sitting anyone?) , adminstration [sic], school lunches, etc..  One teacher can teach millions of kids how to read. One teacher can teach millions of children how to do arithmatic [sic]. The student of the future will log on from home - watch a video lesson and take a test. They will even be able to ask questions and get answers to their questions (an added bonus is that the answers will be correct!).  It will be efficient, effectivie [sic], and far less costly.
> 
> ........


Now we know how _that _turned out. Next?


----------



## flan327

High_Gravity said:


> After seeing the way the kids treat teachers in middle school and high school, my answer is no.


The PROBLEM is with the TEACHERS 

Are they hiding under their desks
OR
Are they sending them to the principal’s office?


----------



## flan327

editec said:


> *Clearly not!*
> 
> *In this Mammon-worshipping society respect is granted based mostly on income.*


I respect TEACHERS 

I WAS  A TEACHER

WERE YOU?


----------



## Unkotare

Anyone who goes into the profession out of a burning need to be "respected" won't last too long.


----------

