# $10 min wage stickers?



## Gurdari (Feb 28, 2007)

ANyone hear about this? Not sure if it's just in Toronto area, but stickers are offered to be put in your business' window if you pay your workers $10 or more to start... I think.


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## 90K (Mar 1, 2007)

no not here in my area. so what is the point?  A better wage for workers or a anti-minumum wage campaign?


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## Gurdari (Mar 1, 2007)

I think it's a reverse 'shame' sort of thing... so people (if they care) can reward employers who pay a better wage to their workers, or punish those that don't... punish in the free-market way, with the wallet. No bricks.

I think people could spend more on goods/services beyond the basic necessities if a higher min wage is achieved, and more spending is better for everyone in our present economic model. Henry Ford sort of initiative..


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## 90K (Mar 1, 2007)

economically speaking this is a bad idea across the board.  We are about to go into a recession anytime now and we are talking about raising the entry level wage up.  When folk start loosing jobs and homes over lack of work we'll see how the increase does.
 I'm not a min-wage  worker but reality is what it is, we need to let this rest a while before jumping to make a decision.


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## trobinett (Mar 1, 2007)

Gurdari said:


> I think it's a reverse 'shame' sort of thing... so people (if they care) can reward employers who pay a better wage to their workers, or punish those that don't... punish in the free-market way, with the wallet. No bricks.
> 
> I think people could spend more on goods/services beyond the basic necessities if a higher min wage is achieved, and more spending is better for everyone in our present economic model. Henry Ford sort of initiative..



The market sets the wage that a given employer is able to pay.  NOT some lame ass sticker, or a group of socialist, that sit around sipping coffee, and smoking pot.

Get real, try to operate a business, and the reality of that statement will come crashing down on you.

I've owned, and operated a variety of business since 1969.  Been through the good times, and the bad times.  Had as many as thirty employees working with me at two different locations.  The service, and production sectors are labor intensive, and can run as high as  thirty five percent of gross for labor.  A dime here or there can make a BIG difference as to your businesses success or failure.

Government employee's , coffee shop socialist, want a be politicians, and long in the tooth party members are the last ones that should be dictating what business pays its employee's.

Think about it, the government can't make a profit on ANYTHING they do, scary huh?


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## Gurdari (Mar 1, 2007)

trobinett said:


> The market sets the wage that a given employer is able to pay.  NOT some lame ass sticker, or a group of socialist, that sit around sipping coffee, and smoking pot.
> 
> Get real, try to operate a business, and the reality of that statement will come crashing down on you.
> 
> ...



Actually the GOVERNMENT sets the minimum a worker can be paid. Not that businesses would try to keep wages low... 
and are you a pot-smoking socialist? Or just an expert on them? 

There are business owners who do pay higher than minimum wages... so is the reality crashing down on them? I guess so, even though they are still in business. The people who should dictate what the minimum wage is are the citizens of the nation in question. Not one group of citizens, the ones who have the most reason to keep wages low...


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## Said1 (Mar 2, 2007)

Gurdari said:


> I think it's a reverse 'shame' sort of thing... so people (if they care) can reward employers who pay a better wage to their workers, or punish those that don't... punish in the free-market way, with the wallet. No bricks.



I don't understand what you mean.




> I think people could spend more on goods/services beyond the basic necessities if a higher min wage is achieved, and more spending is better for everyone in our present economic model. Henry Ford sort of initiative..



Fordism?


Anyway, in many of cases - small business for example, the cost of producing goods is often  reflected in the price. Wages have to be recouped somehow, don't they? Yes I know there is a significant mark up, but still. Paying more will no doubt cause prices to increase, more than likely not increasing spending, would it not?


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## Said1 (Mar 2, 2007)

Gurdari said:


> Actually the GOVERNMENT sets the minimum a worker can be paid. Not that businesses would try to keep wages low...
> and are you a pot-smoking socialist? Or just an expert on them?
> 
> There are business owners who do pay higher than minimum wages... so is the reality crashing down on them? I guess so, even though they are still in business. The people who should dictate what the minimum wage is are the citizens of the nation in question. Not one group of citizens, the ones who have the most reason to keep wages low...



Hmmm, not many union jobs left these days are there? The ones that do exist are impossible to get - at least to get on full-time. There ARE exceptions to everything, but, for the most part, high wages for minimal labour are a thing of t he past. $10.00 per hour at walmart is pretty good if you ask me.


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## trobinett (Mar 4, 2007)

Gurdari said:


> Actually the GOVERNMENT sets the minimum a worker can be paid. Not that businesses would try to keep wages low...
> and are you a pot-smoking socialist? Or just an expert on them?
> 
> There are business owners who do pay higher than minimum wages... so is the reality crashing down on them? I guess so, even though they are still in business. The people who should dictate what the minimum wage is are the citizens of the nation in question. Not one group of citizens, the ones who have the most reason to keep wages low...



Do you have ANY idea what your talking about?

Have you got your listening ears on, or your talking ears?

IF, and I know thats expecting a lot, you were LISTENING, I pointed out, that the LAST people I want setting some arbitrary wage is the GOVERNMENT.

How's about a MAXIMUM wage?  Where theirs a minimum there should be a maximum.

Shouldn't there also be "time in grade", kinda like the military does it, or civil service.  We could assign "pay grades", like GS14 and so on.

Any of this getting through to you "comrade"?

Why do you think 7 out 10 start up business's FAIL?  Any idea at all?

Keep marching, keep protesting, keep writing, keep sharing, but DON'T try to live in the REAL WORLD by being an independent business person, you'd be a miserable failure comrade.


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## Gurdari (Mar 5, 2007)

trobinett said:


> IF, and I know thats expecting a lot, you were LISTENING, I pointed out, that the LAST people I want setting some arbitrary wage is the GOVERNMENT.



I thought you pointed out that the markets sets the minimum wage a worker gets, not your personal opinion on whom should or should not set that wage. Regardless, if anyone is in charge of setting a min wage - I think it should be the closest representative of the nation's citizens, not one specific group over another. If it's a national policy - shouldn't it be a national decision?



trobinett said:


> How's about a MAXIMUM wage?  Where theirs a minimum there should be a maximum.



If you say so, a mximum wage is interesting, could work... I think people would be just as ambitious, but we are in the realm of personal future guessing, all I can say is as long as someone can afford to own a home, car, get married, have kids, school them, and retire with dignity then I personally think they are well enough off...but that's me. I think the members of Coldplay or Metallica for example could have the same amazing lives if they made 2 million each a year instaed of whatever they make now, but I'm off topic here...



trobinett said:


> Shouldn't there also be "time in grade", kinda like the military does it, or civil service.  We could assign "pay grades", like GS14 and so on. .



Hmmm.... pay more based on seniority? If thats what you mean, sounds okay except that idiots who haven't been fired yet would receive increasing wages for nothing. Then again, good people who aren't popular would get their due... hmm, tough to oversee with any degree of equality.



trobinett said:


> Any of this getting through to you "comrade"? .



We're comrades? Okay.



trobinett said:


> Why do you think 7 out 10 start up business's FAIL?  Any idea at all? .



I didn't know that figure. I would however say that I believe more than one single factor (high min wage) is to blame... 



trobinett said:


> Keep marching, keep protesting, keep writing, keep sharing, but DON'T try to live in the REAL WORLD by being an independent business person, you'd be a miserable failure comrade.



Isn't the world populated by more than just 'independent business persons'?
I do live in the real world, we all do. And why would I be a failure if I payed my workers more than min wage? I would only lose money if I refused to make a wage closer to my workers... if I need to make WAY more, you're right... the business would fail or prices would raise, etc. All it takes is a little less greed and I'd be okay in that singular respect (many reasons why a business could fail...).


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## Superlative (Apr 3, 2007)

trobinett said:


> Why do you think 7 out 10 start up business's FAIL?  Any idea at all?




Here are a few reasons i found, none of which have anything to do with paying your employees too much out of the gate. 


*You start your business for the wrong reasons*. Thinking either you will make money, or be able to spend more time with your family, or even not having to answer to anyone else.

*Poor Business Management* Many a report on business failures cites poor management as the number one reason for failure. New business owners frequently *lack relevant business and management expertise* in areas such as finance, purchasing, selling, production, and hiring and managing employees. Unless they recognize what they don't do well, and seek help, business owners may soon face disaster. They must also be educated and alert to fraud, and put into place measures to avoid it.

*Insufficient Capital*
It is important to take into consideration that many businesses take a year or two to get going. This means you will need enough funds to cover all costs until sales can eventually pay for these costs.

*Location, Location, Location*Your college professor was right -- location is critical to the success of your business. Whereas a good location may enable a struggling business to ultimately survive and thrive, a bad location could spell disaster to even the best-managed enterprise.

*Lack of Planning*Anyone who has ever been in charge of a successful major event knows that were it not for their careful, methodical, strategic planning -- and hard work -- success would not have followed. The same could be said of most business successes.

*Overexpansion*A leading cause of business failure, overexpansion often happens when business owners confuse success with how fast they can expand their business. A focus on slow and steady growth is optimum. Many a bankruptcy has been caused by rapidly expanding companies.

*No Website* Simply put, if you have a business today, you need a website. Period


What does it mean when your employees make more money? Less money for the owner. 
If your labour cost is high because you have too many employees, then you may actually have too many employees. 

If you need that many staff in order to succeed, maybe the owner needs to do more work himself to save money, or raise the price of product. If demand is there and your product is quality, you can raise the price and survive, blame it on cost of living increase.

But if demand is high enough for your product or service, then you should be able to pay your employees $10, if you can't afford $20,000 a year for one fulltime employee, then you havent planned right

Good help is hard to find, if you think that the best way to save money is by paying people the bare minimum, then you are mistaken, all you will find are illegals, and you will wish you paid more for someone who understands instructions.


*Ill keep looking, but i doubt i'll find any reason like "paying your employees more then you can afford" anywhere in the top 10 reasons a business fails. *

http://www.businessknowhow.com/startup/business-failure.htm


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## Shogun (Apr 3, 2007)

Wouldnt such a sticker be just another varaible that the MARKET uses on par with anything else ADVERTISED?

is someone forcing business to use the sticker?

is this still a big evil commie pothead socialist agenda if THE MARKET considers this variable in their consuming just like any other factor being ADVERTISED?

christ on a pogostick some of you fanatics are no better than those you hate with your automatic knee jerk reactions and bomb under the trenchcoat mentality.


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## MtnBiker (Apr 3, 2007)

Superlative said:


> Here are a few reasons i found, none of which have anything to do with paying your employees too much out of the gate.
> 
> *Insufficient Capital*
> It is important to take into consideration that many businesses take a year or two to get going. This means you will need enough *funds to cover all costs* until sales can eventually pay for these costs.



Is labor not a cost to a business?


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## Puddles (Apr 3, 2007)

trobinett said:


> IF, and I know thats expecting a lot, you were LISTENING, I pointed out, that the LAST people I want setting some arbitrary wage is the GOVERNMENT.
> 
> How's about a MAXIMUM wage?  Where theirs a minimum there should be a maximum.



You actually didn't say that, you said:



> The market sets the wage that a given employer is able to pay. NOT some lame ass sticker, or a group of socialist, that sit around sipping coffee, and smoking pot.



Wrong on both counts.  Anyways, if we left it up to employers to voluntarily increase wages as they saw fit...well chances are it wouldn't happen.  Cost of living increases regularly - prices for all items increase - salaries have to as well, especially for low wage earners.

As for the actually issue, the sticker idea is dumb if you ask me...has that already been started because I haven't heard or seen it yet?


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## MtnBiker (Apr 3, 2007)

Puddles said:


> Anyways, if we left it up to employers to voluntarily increase wages as they saw fit...well chances are it wouldn't happen.



Employers don't give raises?


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## Puddles (Apr 3, 2007)

MtnBiker said:


> Employers don't give raises?



I'm sure some do, but some don't...hence the need for minimum wage.


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## MtnBiker (Apr 3, 2007)

Puddles said:


> I'm sure some do, but some don't...hence the need for minimum wage.



Do you mean a higher minimum wage?


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## Puddles (Apr 3, 2007)

MtnBiker said:


> Do you mean a higher minimum wage?



??  No...


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## Ninja (Apr 4, 2007)

Gurdari said:


> ANyone hear about this? Not sure if it's just in Toronto area, but stickers are offered to be put in your business' window if you pay your workers $10 or more to start... I think.



Cool. If I'm ever in Toronto it will be easy for me to be sure that my money will not go to communist merchants.


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## Ninja (Apr 4, 2007)

Puddles said:


> I'm sure some do, but some don't...hence the need for minimum wage.



No one is forced to work for an employer who doesn't give raises.

Anyway, who the fuck needs a raise in CanaDUH? The .gov provides everything .

Take your feel-good socialist BS and keep it in your little Third World Maoist hellhole.


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## Puddles (Apr 5, 2007)

snowman said:


> Take your feel-good socialist BS and keep it in your little Third World Maoist hellhole.



You already used that line.  On top of that it's not even applicable here ...funny coming from obi won kenobi's bitch


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## Said1 (Apr 5, 2007)

snowman said:


> No one is forced to work for an employer who doesn't give raises.
> 
> Anyway, who the fuck needs a raise in CanaDUH? The .gov provides everything .
> 
> Take your feel-good socialist BS and keep it in your little Third World Maoist hellhole.



Who the fuck needs Canada? You will, when the methheads come for you and yo mamma. We're building a fence ya know.


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## Ninja (Apr 5, 2007)

comment plz k thx bai

btw lrn 2 read


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## Said1 (Apr 6, 2007)

snowman said:


> comment plz k thx bai
> 
> btw lrn 2 read



no. It's been no use to me so far.


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## Ninja (Apr 6, 2007)

Apparently not.


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## Said1 (Apr 6, 2007)

snowman said:


> Apparently not.



I'm really autistic. You should be ashamed.


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## Canucklehead (Apr 15, 2010)

trobinett said:


> [Think about it, the government can't make a profit on ANYTHING they do, scary huh?



Government-owned utilities? Social Security? Private-Public Partnerships? No?


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## Canucklehead (Apr 15, 2010)

Ninja said:


> Puddles said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure some do, but some don't...hence the need for minimum wage.
> ...



*reads story on the CDN Dollar closing above the US Dollar*
*reads story on the Canadian economy being the fastest growing of the G7 Nations, growing almost three times as fast as the United States*
*reads story on skyrocketing unemployment in the US*
*reads story on big reduction of unemployment in Canada*
*reads story on Canada's higher quality of life*
*reads story on America's bailout of big banks*
*reads story on how Canada had no need to bailout any of its own banks*


Third World Maoist hellhole, eh? Whatever makes you sleep at night.


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