# Wind Turbines Kill More Birds Than BP Oil Spill



## Stephanie (Apr 21, 2015)

Oh Matthew. what say you?

SNIP:
It’s been five years since BP’s Deepwater Horizon oil rig exploded and released 5 million barrels of crude oil into the Gulf of Mexico.

Environmentalists are highlighting the disaster by pointing to the 800,000 birds that have died because of the spill in the five years since the disaster, but activists have been eerily silent about the fact that way more birds have been killed by wind turbines — a supposedly “eco-friendly” energy source.

The liberal blog Mother Jones reports that 800,000 birds have been killed and the Pelican population in the Gulf has decreased 12 percent. While the 2010 Gulf spill was indeed a horrible disaster, the number of birds that died pales in comparison the number killed in the last five years due to wind turbines.

A 2013 study found that 573,000 birds and 888,000 bats are killed every year by wind turbines — a figure 30 percent higher than the federal government estimated in 2009. These deaths have likely increased as wind power capacity increases across the country.


“I estimated 888,000 bat and 573,000 bird fatalities/year (including 83,000 raptor fatalities) at 51,630 megawatt (MW) of installed wind-energy capacity in the United States in 2012,” writes K. Shawn Smallwood, author of the study that was published in the Wildlife Society Bulletin.

all of it here:
Wind Turbines Kill More Birds Than BP Oil Spill The Daily Caller


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## JoeB131 (Apr 21, 2015)

number of birds killed in a one time event vs. number of birds killed in a year across the country?  

Not the same thing, Staph.


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## there4eyeM (Apr 21, 2015)

'The White Lady' was a book I read when I was young. It is about an albino bat a man found and nursed back to health. As a game, it would fly through the turning blade of his electric fan at 600rpm, but would not try at 900. 
It is impossible to accept this estimate for bat deaths by slow-turning aeolians.


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## orogenicman (Apr 21, 2015)

That paper took the number of dead birds and bats in one location and extrapolated it across the country, ignoring the fact that bird and bat populations vary widely across the continent, and that many wind farms are intentionally located in areas with relatively low bird and bat populations,.  So it could be as high as 800,000 or as low as 60,000.


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## there4eyeM (Apr 21, 2015)

(aside)...Thanks, Stefanie. I used to live in Liberty....
....Maine.


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## ScienceRocks (Apr 21, 2015)

Three reasons why I support wind...
1. It is a infite resource! I love living in civilization and the finite sources like coal aren't going to be around forever.
2. Cars, planes, buildings kill a hell of a lot more!
3. Coal, oil and natural gas causes cancer. Wind doesn't...I care about human health!


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## Stephanie (Apr 21, 2015)

Matthew said:


> Three reasons why I support wind...
> 1. It is a infite resource! I love living in civilization and the finite sources like coal aren't going to be around forever.
> 2. Cars, planes, buildings kill a hell of a lot more!
> 3. Coal, oil and natural gas causes cancer. Wind doesn't...I care about human health!



and all them dead birds?


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## there4eyeM (Apr 21, 2015)

The best reason for renewable energy sources is aesthetics. Smoke stacks, exhaust pipes, electric generating plants and extension cords running from them, coal mines, etc., are all ugly. Humankind's contribution to the universe is intelligent creativity, and creating beauty is the highest expression of that.


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## Statistikhengst (Apr 21, 2015)

Stephanie said:


> Oh Matthew. what say you?
> 
> SNIP:
> It’s been five years since BP’s Deepwater Horizon oil rig exploded and released 5 million barrels of crude oil into the Gulf of Mexico.
> ...





And hundreds of thousands of birds are killed by cars and trucks every year, cars and trucks fueled by fossil fuel, but you don't bitch about that, now do you?

So, you want to compare a total from a one time event to another total spanning another year?  Well, that's stupid, like an apples to condoms comparison, but ok, let's extrapolate that out:

assuming that the spill took *5 days*, that most of the damage that was done in 5 days, then 365 / 5 = 73

800,000 * 73 = 58,400,000.

So, had the spill gone on as long as the statistics for birds flying into wind-turbines (1 year), that would be between 58 and 59 MILLION birds killed by the oil spill. Now you have statistics on a EVEN PLAYING FIELD.

See how that works, Cleeta?

Jesus, you really are that stupid, now aren't you....


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## orogenicman (Apr 21, 2015)

Stephanie said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > Three reasons why I support wind...
> ...



Stephanie, tens of millions of birds are killed each year by power lines.  Where is your outrage over that?

Report Millions of birds killed by power lines - World news - World environment NBC News


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## Moonglow (Apr 21, 2015)

Wind turbines do not kill off plant life that sustains the habitats for birds and keeps islands from disintegrating due to the trees being killed off...like the oil spill in the gulf did.....


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## rightwinger (Apr 21, 2015)

Stephanie said:


> Oh Matthew. what say you?
> 
> SNIP:
> It’s been five years since BP’s Deepwater Horizon oil rig exploded and released 5 million barrels of crude oil into the Gulf of Mexico.
> ...


 
Does this mean Republicans will apologize to BP again?


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## ScienceRocks (Apr 21, 2015)

Wind turbines don't cause cancer like coal and natural gas does. Human health is important!


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## rightwinger (Apr 21, 2015)

Cats kill more birds than the BP oil spill

So until we get control of cats, BP should be allowed to dump as much oil as they wish


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## mdk (Apr 21, 2015)

Turbines don't kill birds, birds kill birds.


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## jon_berzerk (Apr 21, 2015)

there4eyeM said:


> The best reason for renewable energy sources is aesthetics. Smoke stacks, exhaust pipes, electric generating plants and extension cords running from them, coal mines, etc., are all ugly. Humankind's contribution to the universe is intelligent creativity, and creating beauty is the highest expression of that.




maybe but 200 windmills in one location is rather ugly on its own


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## jon_berzerk (Apr 21, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> Cats kill more birds than the BP oil spill
> 
> So until we get control of cats, BP should be allowed to dump as much oil as they wish



*Cats kill more birds than the BP oil spill*

indeed

the MNDNR has a saying for cats in the wild 

3s

shoot em 

shovel  em

scoot


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## rightwinger (Apr 21, 2015)

Hey Stephanie is right

You eat chicken and turkey don't you?

That kills more birds than BP did with their "tiny" little oil spill. STOP picking on BP


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 21, 2015)

JoeB131 said:


> number of birds killed in a one time event vs. number of birds killed in a year across the country?
> 
> Not the same thing, Staph.



  Uh....they're still dead.


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## jon_berzerk (Apr 21, 2015)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > number of birds killed in a one time event vs. number of birds killed in a year across the country?
> ...




remember this is joe you are responding to --LOL


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 21, 2015)

there4eyeM said:


> 'The White Lady' was a book I read when I was young. It is about an albino bat a man found and nursed back to health. As a game, it would fly through the turning blade of his electric fan at 600rpm, but would not try at 900.
> It is impossible to accept this estimate for bat deaths by slow-turning aeolians.



  I call bullshit. Noway a bat is going to be able to fly through a fan going at 600rpms.
 This is why bats are killed by wind turbines.
Holy haemorrhage Batman Wind turbines burst bat lungs Not Exactly Rocket Science


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 21, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Cats kill more birds than the BP oil spill
> ...



  Yep...once I killed off 23 of the 25 cats infesting my weekend place the wildlife bounced back in an amazing way.
   Rabbits,song birds,horned toads,turkeys,roadrunners all came back in astounding numbers.


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## jon_berzerk (Apr 21, 2015)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> jon_berzerk said:
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> > rightwinger said:
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stray cats multiply quickly 

best to keep em under control


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## Delta4Embassy (Apr 21, 2015)

Nature's way of weeding out the stupid birds that shouldn't reproduce if dumb enough to fly into a rotating fan.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 21, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
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> > jon_berzerk said:
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  Yep..and the health of the two cats I kept around for vermin control is much improved.


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## jon_berzerk (Apr 21, 2015)

Delta4Embassy said:


> Nature's way of weeding out the stupid birds that shouldn't reproduce if dumb enough to fly into a rotating fan.



really not that simple


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## Delta4Embassy (Apr 21, 2015)

Not running out of birds. 

"Meanwhile, the aptly named book, "How Many Birds Are There?" estimates 200-400 billion birds for the entire world, which is pretty consistent with 10-20 billion in the U.S."

Quit trying to pretend like you care about birds when in actuality, and as everyone understands, you only care about the success of alt energy sources which threatens oil interests.


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## hadit (Apr 21, 2015)

there4eyeM said:


> 'The White Lady' was a book I read when I was young. It is about an albino bat a man found and nursed back to health. As a game, it would fly through the turning blade of his electric fan at 600rpm, but would not try at 900.
> It is impossible to accept this estimate for bat deaths by slow-turning aeolians.


They only appear to be slow-turning.  The ends of the blades on a large windmill move much more rapidly than you would think, and easily kill unwary birds and/or bats.


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## hadit (Apr 21, 2015)

Delta4Embassy said:


> Not running out of birds.
> 
> "Meanwhile, the aptly named book, "How Many Birds Are There?" estimates 200-400 billion birds for the entire world, which is pretty consistent with 10-20 billion in the U.S."
> 
> Quit trying to pretend like you care about birds when in actuality, and as everyone understands, you only care about the success of alt energy sources which threatens oil interests.


We could put a bunch of windmills off the New England coast where there are strong, steady winds, but the wealthy liberals don't want them there.  Spoils the scenery, don't you know, having windmills 20 miles out to sea and all.


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## Stephanie (Apr 21, 2015)

there4eyeM said:


> (aside)...Thanks, Stefanie. I used to live in Liberty....
> ....Maine.



I went through Maine once...never had a hankering to live there. I'm in the Midwest now after leaving Alaska where I lived for 15 years


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## Agit8r (Apr 21, 2015)

Wind turbines never destroyed a regional economy.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 21, 2015)

Agit8r said:


> Wind turbines never destroyed a regional economy.



  They dont do anything for it either. But they do a fantastic job of ruining the scenery.


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## Agit8r (Apr 21, 2015)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> > Wind turbines never destroyed a regional economy.
> ...



So what is your beef with wind turbines anyway? Do you feel the same way about hydroelectric turbines?


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## rightwinger (Apr 21, 2015)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Agit8r said:
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> > Wind turbines never destroyed a regional economy.
> ...


 
Oil







Coal


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 21, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
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   Those pumpjacks dont appear to be 328 feet tall.
 And not only that the pumpjacks will eventually be gone.


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## rightwinger (Apr 21, 2015)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> rightwinger said:
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## rightwinger (Apr 21, 2015)

Fracking


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## Agit8r (Apr 21, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
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rightwinger said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
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Dams



And they are not merely subsidized--most are run directly by governments!


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 21, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
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 And they'll be there forever..or until the tax subsidies die and they eventually fall down from lack of maintenance.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 21, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> Fracking



  So you fly over fracking sights on a regular basis do you?
None of that is visible from the road and it will all eventually go wild again.
  Not so for your tax subsidized windmills.


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## Syriusly (Apr 21, 2015)

Stephanie said:


> Oh Matthew. what say you?
> 
> SNIP:
> It’s been five years since BP’s Deepwater Horizon oil rig exploded and released 5 million barrels of crude oil into the Gulf of Mexico.
> ...



I notice Conservatives only seem to notice- and pretend to care about bird deaths- when it comes to alternative energy. 

I wonder why they never seem concerned about the major causes of bird deaths- chief of which of course is habitat loss- but the other causes


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 21, 2015)

Syriusly said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> > Oh Matthew. what say you?
> ...



  Funny...habitat loss isnt listed?
But shooting all feral cats would do wonders apparently.


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## Syriusly (Apr 21, 2015)

Here is a fairly balanced article on the issue- it wont' satisfy those who are concerned only because wind generators are involved, but its a good read.

At Altamont Pass and Elsewhere Will Newer Wind Turbines Mean Fewer Bird Deaths


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## Syriusly (Apr 21, 2015)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Syriusly said:
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> > Stephanie said:
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Actually the article lists habitat loss first, but the chart goes with direct death causes.

And yes- eliminating feral cats would save millions of birds lives.

I love cats- but people who abandon cats and leave them to eat wild birds and other wildlife do not do them or the environment any favors.


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## Agit8r (Apr 21, 2015)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> rightwinger said:
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> > HereWeGoAgain said:
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Speaking of stuff that stays around forever:


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## Publius1787 (Apr 21, 2015)

Syriusly said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> > Oh Matthew. what say you?
> ...



No, conservatives are just pointing out the hypocrisy of the left. that's all.


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## Syriusly (Apr 21, 2015)

Publius1787 said:


> Syriusly said:
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> > Stephanie said:
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Is that the rationalization for the hypocrisy you use to sleep at night- when you pretend to be concerned about the death of birds, just to attack alternate energy?


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## ScienceRocks (Apr 21, 2015)

Seeing that hundreds of people per year die in coal mines and Hundreds of thousands die from cancer from working in coal mines. It is a choice between humans having a power source that can last through the ages or a few thousand birds. Believe me, we slaughter a lot of fucking animals so don't even get me started.


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## ScienceRocks (Apr 21, 2015)

Syriusly said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> > Oh Matthew. what say you?
> ...



Facts and loserterians don't go together. They Oppose renewables as they don't make their 1% royality richer. They're slaves for these bastards.


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## Political Junky (Apr 21, 2015)

The Right's sudden concern over wildlife is touching.


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## Old Rocks (Apr 21, 2015)

Stephanie said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > Three reasons why I support wind...
> ...


*Yes, all those dead birds, you old witch;*




A chart showing estimated numbers of birds killed annually by each of several different causes. Data from various sources.

This chart and the following text were prepared in 2003. Any updates would be welcome.

*Staph, you don't give a flying fuck about birds. You are simply against any kind of progress, technological or social. *


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## Old Rocks (Apr 21, 2015)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> > Wind turbines never destroyed a regional economy.
> ...


Bullshit. There are a bunch of wheat farmers that will contest that along the Columbia east of The Dallas. And those mills are producing power for both Oregon and California.


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## Agit8r (Apr 21, 2015)

Old Rocks said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
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> > Agit8r said:
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The Dalles.  By Arlington, actually


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## Old Rocks (Apr 21, 2015)

Pretty much from The Dallas to Pendleton. And now in the Grande Ronde valley. If we were smart, we would throw a large power line across southern Oregon, and pick up wind, solar, and geothermal from that area.


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## Agit8r (Apr 21, 2015)

Old Rocks said:


> Stephanie said:
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> > Matthew said:
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Those windows are a bitch.  I guess it is time to tear down all the high-rises.


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## Agit8r (Apr 21, 2015)

Old Rocks said:


> Pretty much from The Dallas to Pendleton. And now in the Grande Ronde valley. If we were smart, we would throw a large power line across southern Oregon, and pick up wind, solar, and geothermal from that area.



Yeah, lots in Kittitas County, WA too.


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## Old Rocks (Apr 21, 2015)

No, time to figure a way to prevent the birds from flying into the windows. Same for the birds and bats with windmills. We can do this, and should do this.


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## ScienceRocks (Apr 21, 2015)

Old Rocks said:


> Pretty much from The Dallas to Pendleton. And now in the Grande Ronde valley. If we were smart, we would throw a large power line across southern Oregon, and pick up wind, solar, and geothermal from that area.




If Oregon was smart it would cover about 40 square miles of the eastern side with solar.  99.9% of the population of the state wouldn't ever see them either. 

Oregon should also have at least 10gw of solar...maybe the governor will mandate solar on all new homes.


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## Agit8r (Apr 21, 2015)

Old Rocks said:


> No, time to figure a way to prevent the birds from flying into the windows. Same for the birds and bats with windmills. We can do this, and should do this.



True.


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## Old Rocks (Apr 21, 2015)

Mathew, how about all the commercial and industrial building roofs in our cities? No transmission losses, and a source of income for the owners of the properties.


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