# Top Sniper Rifles



## Vikrant

This is a nice video which compares few sniper rifles.


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## Book of Jeremiah

I have a dear friend who is a retired navy seal commando - he was the 5th top sniper in the world.  He told me he had been given an offer to buy a sniper rifle from a local where we live for $28,000.00 but he didn't buy it.  I was amazed that they could cost that much!  Who knew?   I am forever thankful for meeting him as he has been a great blessing to my husband and I.  Much of what he shared about warfare strategies,etc with regards to his training were things I could apply to spiritual warfare - the similarities are remarkable!  I learned a great deal from him.


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## Vikrant

^ Is there an international tournament which ranks the top snipers of the world?


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## Geaux4it

Sig Sauer Tactical 2

Sweeeeet

-Geaux


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## Geaux4it

AtticusF said:


> shart_attack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a nice video which compares few sniper rifles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> atticusf said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of what value is a "sniper rifle" in a non-war zone? Gun cultists wonder why some of us find them a blight on society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Multiple purposes:
> 
> To kill big wild game from a distance so remote that it gives the hunter complete cover.
> To irritate the hell outta you and everyone else on the USMB who hates the Second Amendment. And/ or ...
> To scare the hell outta you.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In other words, to compensate.  What I figured.  I guess gun marketeers know that marketing them as "big game rifles" ain't sexy enough to sell very many. Let's call them "sniper rifles" or "tactical rifles,"and the gun cultists will drool over them.
Click to expand...


A guns a gun and a very effective tool

-Geaux


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## CrusaderFrank

AtticusF said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a nice video which compares few sniper rifles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of what value is a "sniper rifle" in a non-war zone? Gun cultists wonder why some of us find them a blight on society.
Click to expand...


To make Progressives lose sleep at night when they contemplate eliminating the Second Amendment


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## Sunni Man

Jeremiah said:


> I have a dear friend who is a retired navy seal commando - he was the 5th top sniper in the world.  He told me he had been given an offer to buy a sniper rifle from a local where we live for $28,000.00 but he didn't buy it.  I was amazed that they could cost that much!  Who knew?


Your so called friend (if he even exists) is full of BS

He isn't a Navy Seal........although he may have seen a seal once at the local zoo.   ....  

No sniper rifle costs $28,000 unless it's gold plated.    .....


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## Geaux4it

AtticusF said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a nice video which compares few sniper rifles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of what value is a "sniper rifle" in a non-war zone? Gun cultists wonder why some of us find them a blight on society.
Click to expand...


The value is the price the consumer is willing to pay.

Now here's another hot Sig snipe-

Sig Sauer SSG 3000 - Sniper Central



Sig Sauer SSG 3000 




*Sig Sauer SSG 3000**Caliber:*308 Win (7.62x51mm NATO)*Barrel:*Heavy Contour*Barrel Length:*23.6" (600mm) or 18.0" (458mm)*Twist:*RH 1:11"*Weight (Rifle only, no mag):*12.0 lbs (3.30 kg)*Overall Length:*45" (1143mm)*Magazine:*5 round detachable box*Trigger:*Sig Sauer Two Stage*Stock:*Sig Sauer composite stock*Metal Finish:*Matte Bluing*Price:*$1499 (2014 prices)




The Sig Sauer Company was founded in Switzerland way back in the 1850's and has been a long time manufacturer of pistols for the Swiss military as well as law enforcement agencies. The company is now headquartered in New Hampshire here in the USA but still has manufacturing facilities in Switzerland and Italy as well as here in the USA. Their pistols have had a stellar reputation for decades now and with such notable groups such as the US Navy SEALs, US Air Marshalls and others all using their firearms, their popularity and product line have been growing. The Sig Sauer rifles include several different lines such as their 5.56 and 7.62 combat rifles, Sauer hunting rifles, and Blaser rifles. For a long time a part of their rifle line has been the SSG 3000 sniper rifle, but the SSG 3000 has gone through some recent changes. One was that the production of the SSG 3000 was going to be moved from Germany, where many of the Sig firearms are manufactured, to the USA. This change of manufacturing location also included a change to the actual synthetic stock and one other major change, the price. The price on the SSG 3000 actually dropped from about $2500, to less than $1500 MSRP. This was a surprise and it meant that the SSG 3000 became a player in the low-mid range tactical rifles. 

The Sig Sauer SSG 3000 comes in its own hard case from the factory with the typical assortment of new rifle documentation including an owner’s manual and warranty information as well as some minor spare parts, a nice tactical cleaning kit, various Allen wrenches for rifle maintenance and something we always like to see with a rifle, a factory test target fired at 100 meters. It is nice to see rifle manufacturers willing to stand behind their products and provide accuracy proof. Once the case was opened we began to take a more detailed look at the rifle itself and one thing that jumped out at us was that the barrel was labeled, "Made in Germany". Our understanding was that the new SSG 3000 would be manufactured in the USA, so we are assuming that Sig had some existing inventory they needed to clear out from the German made rifles and that eventually the manufacturing will move to the USA factory. There is another possibility is that the barreled actions will continue to be made in Germany and then final mating of the barreled actions to the stock will be, or is currently being done, in the USA. But since the test target was labeled in German and was shot at 100 meters and not yards, we concluded that this actual completed rifle was manufactured in Germany. 






If you look at the image above, that image is of the original previous generation Sig Sauer SSG 3000, now compare that to the other images on this page of the current SSG 3000 and you will see some of the differences. The shape of the stock is similar, but with differences to include ventilation holes in the older stock, there were also auxiliary sights on the old rifle, but not the new. So there are definite differences between the old and new rifles and we will look at all of the details of the new rifle. 

The stock on the new SSG 3000 is made of a type of Polymer, or hard plastic, but do not confuse this with a cheaper flexible plastic that one might find on the cheaper stocks from Remington, like on their SPS rifles, or even a Choate stock. The plastic/polymer is much more firm and solid and feels quiet durable. No it is not a laid up fiberglass stock like a McMillan or a composite Kevlar material like HS Precision, but it is solid and should hold up well. The buttstock itself has a rubber recoil pad but it also has a spacer system that allows for adjusting the length of pull by adding or removing spacers. Here at Sniper Central we tend to prefer spacer system setups versus the adjustable setups that use screws or knobs, the reason is because the spacer systems give a more solid foundation that is not going to move over time. Granted, they are much more difficult and time consuming to adjust the length of pull (LOP), but once set, there is no worry about them moving.






The SSG3000 also has an adjustable cheekpiece that adjusts up and down. The way the adjustment is made is by pressing in two buttons on either side of the lower portion of the cheekpiece itself. Both of these buttons need to be pressed simultaneously, which sometimes proved to be difficult. The buttons have a strong spring resistance and it can take some effort to get both of them pressed in fully in order to adjust the cheekpiece. They then have to continue to be held in while the cheekpiece is moved up or down. Once the buttons are released, they will lock into one of several grooves that will keep the cheekpiece from moving up or down. While it is somewhat of a pain to adjust, it is a solid cheekpiece that did not move during our testing once it was secured in place. We cannot say the same for the saddle style adjustable cheekpieces found on McMillan stocks. 

Just behind the cheekpiece there are flush cup receivers on both sides of the stock and combined with the same flush cups up on the forearm, it allows the SSG3000 to be used with flush cup compatible slings, and we especially like the fact that they are on the left and right sides which allows for the rifle to lay flat on its side when slung on the back of an operator. Just one of those little things that you normally do not think about until you are operating out in the field and notice how the rifle slings comfortably. The first thoughts about the stock are that it is cheap, but once we started noticing some of these types of features and the fact that the stock is quiet solid, our opinion changed a bit.

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## PredFan

I have a Remington 700 series with a serious scope. The longest range I know of here in Orlando is 300 yards. I hear they are building a new range in Kissimmee that will have a 1000 yard range. I can't wait!


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## Delta4Embassy

AtticusF said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a nice video which compares few sniper rifles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of what value is a "sniper rifle" in a non-war zone? Gun cultists wonder why some of us find them a blight on society.
Click to expand...


Police use old-school .308 snipers and thinking of one incident where the officer shot a gun out of an armed seated suspect's hand, that shot ended the stand-off.


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## Missourian

AtticusF said:


> AtticusF said:
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> shart_attack said:
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> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a nice video which compares few sniper rifles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> atticusf said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of what value is a "sniper rifle" in a non-war zone? Gun cultists wonder why some of us find them a blight on society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Multiple purposes:
> 
> To kill big wild game from a distance so remote that it gives the hunter complete cover.
> To irritate the hell outta you and everyone else on the USMB who hates the Second Amendment. And/ or ...
> To scare the hell outta you.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In other words, to compensate.  What I figured.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AtticusF said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a nice video which compares few sniper rifles.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of what value is a "sniper rifle" in a non-war zone? Gun cultists wonder why some of us find them a blight on society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To make Progressives lose sleep at night when they contemplate eliminating the Second Amendment
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The last thing that would intimidate those of us who think we need tougher restrictions, are yahoos smitten with "sniper/tactical" rifles so they can hide in the bushes and shoot someone in the back.
Click to expand...


There were 800 people killed by bicycles in 2010, more than the number of people killed from 2000 to 2013 (418) from mass shootings.

There were also 26,009 deaths from “falling” in 2010 alone, once again outweighing tremendously the number of people killed from mass shootings.


Read more at The 2nd Amendment Could Be Safe Forever After What The FBI Just Revealed​
Time for you to launch your quest to save us from evil bikes and ladders.  DANGEROUS! ;P


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## Missourian

PredFan said:


> I have a Remington 700 series with a serious scope. The longest range I know of here in Orlando is 300 yards. I hear they are building a new range in Kissimmee that will have a 1000 yard range. I can't wait!



That is what I'm working on too,  a 700 ADL 30-06.  Slowly but surely.


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## Missourian

AtticusF said:


> Missourian said:
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> AtticusF said:
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> AtticusF said:
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> shart_attack said:
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> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a nice video which compares few sniper rifles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> atticusf said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of what value is a "sniper rifle" in a non-war zone? Gun cultists wonder why some of us find them a blight on society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Multiple purposes:
> 
> To kill big wild game from a distance so remote that it gives the hunter complete cover.
> To irritate the hell outta you and everyone else on the USMB who hates the Second Amendment. And/ or ...
> To scare the hell outta you.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In other words, to compensate.  What I figured.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AtticusF said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a nice video which compares few sniper rifles.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of what value is a "sniper rifle" in a non-war zone? Gun cultists wonder why some of us find them a blight on society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To make Progressives lose sleep at night when they contemplate eliminating the Second Amendment
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The last thing that would intimidate those of us who think we need tougher restrictions, are yahoos smitten with "sniper/tactical" rifles so they can hide in the bushes and shoot someone in the back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were 800 people killed by bicycles in 2010, more than the number of people killed from 2000 to 2013 (418) from mass shootings.
> 
> There were also 26,009 deaths from “falling” in 2010 alone, once again outweighing tremendously the number of people killed from mass shootings.
> 
> 
> Read more at The 2nd Amendment Could Be Safe Forever After What The FBI Just Revealed​
> Time for you to launch your quest to save us from evil bikes and ladders.  DANGEROUS! ;P
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I do work on behalf of bicyclists.  I also am concerned about home-grown terrorists who are into tactical weapons, sniper rifles, etc.  My experience is the vast majority are right wingers, much like the Bundy Ranch Militia or the Border Klan militias.  I think society would be better off without allowing them to arm up, or contribute to the number of such weapons available to right wing terrorists and criminals.
Click to expand...


And I think society would be safer with no sports cars,  and all vehicles governed to 60 MPH...but that's not how freedom and liberty in America works.

What is a "sniper rifle"?

What is a "tactical weapon'?

A semi-automatic is a semi-automatic...sticking some polymer hand guards on it doesn't make it function any differently.

My grandads Remington 700 BDL 30-06 wood stocked and hand checkered gripped deer hunting rifle is EXACTLY the same rifle I have,  except my rifle doesn't have a floor plate. 

1966 700 BDL:







2014 Remington 700 ADL:






So,  other than being black instead of wood,  tell me the difference?


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## HereWeGoAgain

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a dear friend who is a retired navy seal commando - he was the 5th top sniper in the world.  He told me he had been given an offer to buy a sniper rifle from a local where we live for $28,000.00 but he didn't buy it.  I was amazed that they could cost that much!  Who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> Your so called friend (if he even exists) is full of BS
> 
> He isn't a Navy Seal........although he may have seen a seal once at the local zoo.   ....
> 
> No sniper rifle costs $28,000 unless it's gold plated.    .....
Click to expand...


   And you'd be wrong. Think optics....


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## HereWeGoAgain

AtticusF said:


> Missourian said:
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> AtticusF said:
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> AtticusF said:
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> 
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> shart_attack said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a nice video which compares few sniper rifles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> atticusf said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of what value is a "sniper rifle" in a non-war zone? Gun cultists wonder why some of us find them a blight on society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Multiple purposes:
> 
> To kill big wild game from a distance so remote that it gives the hunter complete cover.
> To irritate the hell outta you and everyone else on the USMB who hates the Second Amendment. And/ or ...
> To scare the hell outta you.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In other words, to compensate.  What I figured.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AtticusF said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a nice video which compares few sniper rifles.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of what value is a "sniper rifle" in a non-war zone? Gun cultists wonder why some of us find them a blight on society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To make Progressives lose sleep at night when they contemplate eliminating the Second Amendment
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The last thing that would intimidate those of us who think we need tougher restrictions, are yahoos smitten with "sniper/tactical" rifles so they can hide in the bushes and shoot someone in the back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were 800 people killed by bicycles in 2010, more than the number of people killed from 2000 to 2013 (418) from mass shootings.
> 
> There were also 26,009 deaths from “falling” in 2010 alone, once again outweighing tremendously the number of people killed from mass shootings.
> 
> 
> Read more at The 2nd Amendment Could Be Safe Forever After What The FBI Just Revealed​
> Time for you to launch your quest to save us from evil bikes and ladders.  DANGEROUS! ;P
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I do work on behalf of bicyclists.  I also am concerned about home-grown terrorists who are into tactical weapons, sniper rifles, etc.  My experience is the vast majority are right wingers, much like the Bundy Ranch Militia or the Border Klan militias.  I think society would be better off without allowing them to arm up, or contribute to the number of such weapons available to right wing terrorists and criminals.
Click to expand...


   Well have no fear...because they are available to left wing terrorist as well.
You could have one to....if you weren't so terrirfied of guns.


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## HereWeGoAgain

AtticusF said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AtticusF said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AtticusF said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AtticusF said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, to compensate.  What I figured.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> To make Progressives lose sleep at night when they contemplate eliminating the Second Amendment
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The last thing that would intimidate those of us who think we need tougher restrictions, are yahoos smitten with "sniper/tactical" rifles so they can hide in the bushes and shoot someone in the back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were 800 people killed by bicycles in 2010, more than the number of people killed from 2000 to 2013 (418) from mass shootings.
> 
> There were also 26,009 deaths from “falling” in 2010 alone, once again outweighing tremendously the number of people killed from mass shootings.
> 
> 
> Read more at The 2nd Amendment Could Be Safe Forever After What The FBI Just Revealed​
> Time for you to launch your quest to save us from evil bikes and ladders.  DANGEROUS! ;P
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I do work on behalf of bicyclists.  I also am concerned about home-grown terrorists who are into tactical weapons, sniper rifles, etc.  My experience is the vast majority are right wingers, much like the Bundy Ranch Militia or the Border Klan militias.  I think society would be better off without allowing them to arm up, or contribute to the number of such weapons available to right wing terrorists and criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well have no fear...because they are available to left wing terrorist as well.
> You could have one to....if you weren't so terrirfied of guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not terrified of gunz, just the yahoos attracted to them.  Heck, I was breaking down rifles and 1911s before you were born (even did the 1911s blind-folded). * But, I grew up.*
Click to expand...


     Just because you're old doesnt mean your smart.
  I've been shooting guns and hunting for over forty years,and I sure as hell ain't changing my way of life because of some liberal panty waste. Not gonna happen.
   As a matter of fact I've been considering getting a new long gun that'll really reach out there. But I'm gonna call it a sniper rifle just for you,and I'll get it in flat dark earth because those things look so tacticool.


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## Missourian

AtticusF said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AtticusF said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AtticusF said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AtticusF said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, to compensate.  What I figured.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> To make Progressives lose sleep at night when they contemplate eliminating the Second Amendment
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The last thing that would intimidate those of us who think we need tougher restrictions, are yahoos smitten with "sniper/tactical" rifles so they can hide in the bushes and shoot someone in the back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were 800 people killed by bicycles in 2010, more than the number of people killed from 2000 to 2013 (418) from mass shootings.
> 
> There were also 26,009 deaths from “falling” in 2010 alone, once again outweighing tremendously the number of people killed from mass shootings.
> 
> 
> Read more at The 2nd Amendment Could Be Safe Forever After What The FBI Just Revealed​
> Time for you to launch your quest to save us from evil bikes and ladders.  DANGEROUS! ;P
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I do work on behalf of bicyclists.  I also am concerned about home-grown terrorists who are into tactical weapons, sniper rifles, etc.  My experience is the vast majority are right wingers, much like the Bundy Ranch Militia or the Border Klan militias.  I think society would be better off without allowing them to arm up, or contribute to the number of such weapons available to right wing terrorists and criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And I think society would be safer with no sports cars,  and all vehicles governed to 60 MPH...but that's not how freedom and liberty in America works.
> 
> What is a "sniper rifle"?
> 
> What is a "tactical weapon'?
> 
> A semi-automatic is a semi-automatic...sticking some polymer hand guards on it doesn't make it function any differently.
> 
> My grandads Remington 700 BDL 30-06 wood stocked and hand checkered gripped deer hunting rifle is EXACTLY the same rifle I have,  except my rifle doesn't have a floor plate.
> 
> 1966 700 BDL:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2014 Remington 700 ADL:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So,  other than being black instead of wood,  tell me the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Ask your gun buddies what a sniper or tactical rifle is, they are the ones that started this thread using the term "sniper rifle" and images that are labeled as "tactical weapons."  Of course, we both know that marketeers use those terms to get you guys excited and drooling over their weapons, so you just have to have a few.
Click to expand...


I just told you.

There is no difference between my Remington 700 30-06 and my Grandad's Remington 700 30-06 that isn't 100% cosmetic.

Except that I didn't buy mine to hunt with.  I hunt with a 30-30.

I bought it primarily to long range target shoot...firstly to see if I had the knowledge to build a low budget 1000 yard rifle,  and secondly to determine if I had the skill to make 1000 yard shots.  And maybe one day I'll go hunt out West,  where long distance shooting is the norm.

Why would anyone (you) want to infringe on my ability to pursue my hobby?


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## shart_attack

AtticusF said:


> Not terrified of gunz, just the yahoos attracted to them.  Heck, I was breaking down rifles and 1911s before you were born (even did the 1911s blind-folded).  But, I grew up*.*



Our Founding Fathers used guns to fight The Throne and give us our freedom.

But I guess that, according to _you_, they weren't "grown up".

Frick'n _retard_.


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## Book of Jeremiah

Vikrant said:


> ^ Is there an international tournament which ranks the top snipers of the world?


 
I couldn't tell you, Vikrant.  I don't know.


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## Book of Jeremiah

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a dear friend who is a retired navy seal commando - he was the 5th top sniper in the world.  He told me he had been given an offer to buy a sniper rifle from a local where we live for $28,000.00 but he didn't buy it.  I was amazed that they could cost that much!  Who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> Your so called friend (if he even exists) is full of BS
> 
> He isn't a Navy Seal........although he may have seen a seal once at the local zoo.   ....
> 
> No sniper rifle costs $28,000 unless it's gold plated.    .....
Click to expand...


I am not familiar with the details of what the rifle was - it may not be called a sniper rifle although that is what he was in the Navy - one of the top 5 in the world - here are quite a few rifles - some in the range of 20K to 25K and I am only giving you the link as a courtesy because you are obviously "out of the loop" on this information, Sunni man.

I'm giving you this link instead - this is called a smart rifle -  a trackingpoint-rifle sniper - still comes under category of sniper - it's listed for over $25,000.00 but I doubt it is what he was looking at though. 
Smart rifle means hunters never miss - Video - Technology - Innovation


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## Vikrant

In strictly my opinion, in order for a rifle to qualify as a sniper rifle, it has to have an effective range of at least 2000 meters. Now a days they make some of the sniper rifles that are semi-automatic but when I was a youngster, they used to strictly be bolt action. True sniper rifles do not have large magazine capacity so I doubt anyone is going to use a sniper rifle to do mass killing. 

Sniper rifle draws sports oriented people because it is very challenging to learn to shoot. It is not easy to hit a target well over 1.5 KM. You have to learn to overcome things like wind, elevation, air density and even Earth's rotation. I think shooting with sniper rifle should be an Olympic sport. 

As far as I am concerned, I do not hunt. I am a borderline vegetarian. I will never take a shot at an innocent creature which has done me no harm or means me no harm. My interest in guns is purely from the perspective of a sportsman.


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## Book of Jeremiah

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not familiar with the details of what the rifle was - it may not be called a sniper rifle although that is what he was in the Navy - one of the top 5 in the world - here are quite a few rifles - some in the range of 20K to 25K and* I am only giving you the link as a courtesy *because you are obviously "out of the loop" on this information, Sunni man.
> 
> 
> 
> So where is the link??    ......
Click to expand...


I decided not to give you the other link.  I just posted one that has a demo video included for you.  This one lists for over $25,000.00 and it is for the inexperienced hunter.


----------



## Sunni Man

That price is for the scope.........not the rifle.   ........


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Vikrant said:


> In strictly my opinion, in order for a rifle to qualify as a sniper rifle, it has to have an effective range of at least 2000 meters. Now a days they make some of the sniper rifles that are semi-automatic but when I was a youngster, they used to strictly be bolt action. True sniper rifles do not have large magazine capacity so I doubt anyone is going to use a sniper rifle to do mass killing.
> 
> Sniper rifle draws sports oriented people because it is very challenging to learn to shoot. It is not easy to hit a target well over 1.5 KM. You have to learn to overcome things like wind, elevation, air density and even Earth's rotation. I think shooting with sniper rifle should be an Olympic sport.
> 
> As far as I am concerned, I do not hunt. I am a borderline vegetarian. I will never take a shot at an innocent creature which has done me no harm or means me no harm. My interest in guns is purely from the perspective of a sportsman.



Speaking of hunting.  They have a ten point cross bow for hunters that takes 5 pounds of pressure to use.  It's called a laser bow I believe.  My friend was telling me about them as my husband is a hunter.  I do know what you are talking about concerning wind, elevation, etc. as my friend told me about that - the qualifications to become a Navy Seal are some of the toughest.  Many do not make it.  These guys can read a map with a flashlight between their teeth underwater - take their weapons apart and put them back together again blindfolded.  The training is very intense.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Vikrant said:


> In strictly my opinion, in order for a rifle to qualify as a sniper rifle, it has to have an effective range of at least 2000 meters. Now a days they make some of the sniper rifles that are semi-automatic but when I was a youngster, they used to strictly be bolt action. True sniper rifles do not have large magazine capacity so I doubt anyone is going to use a sniper rifle to do mass killing.
> 
> Sniper rifle draws sports oriented people because it is very challenging to learn to shoot. It is not easy to hit a target well over 1.5 KM. You have to learn to overcome things like wind, elevation, air density and even Earth's rotation. I think shooting with sniper rifle should be an Olympic sport.
> 
> As far as I am concerned, I do not hunt. I am a borderline vegetarian. I will never take a shot at an innocent creature which has done me no harm or means me no harm. My interest in guns is purely from the perspective of a sportsman.



I believe it would be better to use a crossbow for hunting.  I agree with you about the Olympic sport competition.  It requires a tremendous amount of ability.  No question about it, Vikrant.  Interesting thread!  Thanks and have a great evening!


----------



## WinterBorn

AtticusF said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AtticusF said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AtticusF said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shart_attack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a nice video which compares few sniper rifles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> atticusf said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of what value is a "sniper rifle" in a non-war zone? Gun cultists wonder why some of us find them a blight on society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Multiple purposes:
> 
> To kill big wild game from a distance so remote that it gives the hunter complete cover.
> To irritate the hell outta you and everyone else on the USMB who hates the Second Amendment. And/ or ...
> To scare the hell outta you.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In other words, to compensate.  What I figured.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AtticusF said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a nice video which compares few sniper rifles.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of what value is a "sniper rifle" in a non-war zone? Gun cultists wonder why some of us find them a blight on society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To make Progressives lose sleep at night when they contemplate eliminating the Second Amendment
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The last thing that would intimidate those of us who think we need tougher restrictions, are yahoos smitten with "sniper/tactical" rifles so they can hide in the bushes and shoot someone in the back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You some kind of metro sexual faggot boy?
> But seriously..you dont see how hitting targets at great range could be fun,the challenge alone makes it worth doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think it would be more of a challenge, fun, using a sling-shot or something rather than a lethal weapon marketed to yahoos as a "sniper rifle" or "tactical weapon."    I think it would be fun to drive a car 150 mph on a winding road, but I think more of society than to do that.  You gunners should too.
Click to expand...


I have driven a sports car 160 mph.  But I did so on a closed track.   

Shooting a rifle at distances is a skill that borders on an art form.   To be able to hold so still and so precisely that you can put a projectile that is less than 1/3 of an inch in diameter on a target that is 800 yards or 1,000 yards away takes physical skills, self-control, knowledge, and teh ability to judge the wind, the heat waves in the scope, and the ranges.  Anyone who thinks you can just plop down money for a tuned rifle and shoot like a true sniper is sadly mistaken.

As for using these rifles to hunt, I do so on occasion.  I have hunted coyote, deer and wild hog with my Springfield M1A.  Even with the iron sights, the rifle is capable of such amazing accuracy if fed the right ammo.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

I never quite understood how the democrats claimed they were looking out for woman's rights.  There are over 50 million murdered babies in the USA - thanks to planned parenthood and who knows how many girls and women who have been scarred for life, committed suicide over aborting their children, the damage done has been so great there are no words - our very future was murdered in those "death clinics".    Incredibly naive for him to mention the denial of women's rights. Considering the damage his party has done to women and children.   imo.


----------



## Vikrant

Sunni Man said:


> That price is for the scope.........not the rifle.   ........



Well, without a scope/lens, a sniper rifle is worth crap. You cannot even effectively see a target without a scope which is about 2000 meters away from you let alone hit it.


----------



## Mr. H.

We need a thread for the "bottom" sniper rifles.

Starting with...







But be careful... you'll put somebody's eye out.


----------



## WinterBorn

Jeremiah said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a dear friend who is a retired navy seal commando - he was the 5th top sniper in the world.  He told me he had been given an offer to buy a sniper rifle from a local where we live for $28,000.00 but he didn't buy it.  I was amazed that they could cost that much!  Who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> Your so called friend (if he even exists) is full of BS
> 
> He isn't a Navy Seal........although he may have seen a seal once at the local zoo.   ....
> 
> No sniper rifle costs $28,000 unless it's gold plated.    .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not familiar with the details of what the rifle was - it may not be called a sniper rifle although that is what he was in the Navy - one of the top 5 in the world - here are quite a few rifles - some in the range of 20K to 25K and I am only giving you the link as a courtesy because you are obviously "out of the loop" on this information, Sunni man.
> 
> I'm giving you this link instead - this is called a smart rifle -  a trackingpoint-rifle sniper - still comes under category of sniper - it's listed for over $25,000.00 but I doubt it is what he was looking at though.
> Smart rifle means hunters never miss - Video - Technology - Innovation
Click to expand...


If your friend was Chris Kyle, I am sorry for your loss.  He was an amazing man.

If not, I would question the validity of your friend's claim.  There are a lot of fake navy SEALs out there.   I have known many SEAL and UDT divers.   I never knew one who would brag about being in the top 5 snipers in the world.  If anything, they are understated and reluctant to discuss things like that.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Vikrant said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> That price is for the scope.........not the rifle.   ........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, without a scope/lens, a sniper rifle is worth crap. You cannot even effectively see a target which is about 2000 meters away from you without a scope let alone hit it.
Click to expand...

 
oh.  The humiliation of it all.  I'm a woman so it was better for you to tell him.  (it's bad enough)


Mr. H. said:


> We need a thread for the "bottom" sniper rifles.
> 
> Starting with...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But be careful... you'll put somebody's eye out.


 
That saying brings back happy memories, Mr. H.  Thanks.  (my grandmother used to say that!)


----------



## Vikrant

Jeremiah said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> That price is for the scope.........not the rifle.   ........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, without a scope/lens, a sniper rifle is worth crap. You cannot even effectively see a target which is about 2000 meters away from you without a scope let alone hit it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> oh.  The humiliation of it all.  I'm a woman so it was better for you to tell him.  (it's bad enough)
> 
> 
> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> We need a thread for the "bottom" sniper rifles.
> 
> Starting with...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But be careful... you'll put somebody's eye out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That saying brings back happy memories, Mr. H.  Thanks.  (my grandmother used to say that!)
Click to expand...


It is just common sense.


----------



## WinterBorn

Vikrant said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> That price is for the scope.........not the rifle.   ........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, without a scope/lens, a sniper rifle is worth crap. You cannot even effectively see a target without a scope which is about 2000 meters away from you let alone hit it.
Click to expand...


Not necessarily.  Not all sniper work is done at 2000 meters.  There is plenty of good sniper work done with iron sights at 200, 300 and even 600 yards.  Optics are important, no doubt.  And good optics cost good money.  But people are still doing some excellent shooting without optics.


----------



## Vikrant

WinterBorn said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> That price is for the scope.........not the rifle.   ........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, without a scope/lens, a sniper rifle is worth crap. You cannot even effectively see a target without a scope which is about 2000 meters away from you let alone hit it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not necessarily.  Not all sniper work is done at 2000 meters.  There is plenty of good sniper work done with iron sights at 200, 300 and even 600 yards.  Optics are important, no doubt.  And good optics cost good money.  But people are still doing some excellent shooting without optics.
Click to expand...


Of course ...


----------



## Vikrant

L115A3 holds the world record by successfully hitting the target at *2,475* meters. It uses .338 Lapua Magnum cartridges. Imagine what kind skill and practice, it must have taken to achieve that.


----------



## WinterBorn

It would take skill and more.  A little luck wouldn't hurt either.


----------



## Sunni Man

Vikrant said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> That price is for the scope.........not the rifle.   ........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, without a scope/lens, a sniper rifle is worth crap. You cannot even effectively see a target without a scope which is about 2000 meters away from you let alone hit it.
Click to expand...

Obviously you don't shot.

Because if you did.......you wouldn't have made such an ignorant statement.    ......


----------



## PredFan

Here is my most recent result at 300 yards. I won't be qualifying as a sniper, but  pleased with it.


----------



## PredFan

Vikrant said:


> L115A3 holds the world record by successfully hitting the target at *2,475* meters. It uses .338 Lapua Magnum cartridges. Imagine what kind skill and practice, it must have taken to achieve that.



The one on the left looks like my 30-06


----------



## WinterBorn

PredFan said:


> Here is my most recent result at 300 yards. I won't be qualifying as a sniper, but  pleased with it.



Most of us won't come close to qualifying as a sniper.  But that is very good shooting at 300 yards!


----------



## PredFan

WinterBorn said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is my most recent result at 300 yards. I won't be qualifying as a sniper, but  pleased with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most of us won't come close to qualifying as a sniper.  But that is very good shooting at 300 yards!
Click to expand...


Thanks.

Remington 700 series bolt action 30-06 shooting from a bipod, with a good scope. Also I made every one of those 30-06 myself. 150 grain bullet 49 grains powder, carefully measured.


----------



## WinterBorn

PredFan said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is my most recent result at 300 yards. I won't be qualifying as a sniper, but  pleased with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most of us won't come close to qualifying as a sniper.  But that is very good shooting at 300 yards!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Remington 700 series bolt action 30-06 shooting from a bipod, with a good scope. Also I made every one of those 30-06 myself. 150 grain bullet 49 grains powder, carefully measured.
Click to expand...


A solid rifle and good ammo.  A great combination.


----------



## Vikrant

Sunni Man said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> That price is for the scope.........not the rifle.   ........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, without a scope/lens, a sniper rifle is worth crap. You cannot even effectively see a target without a scope which is about 2000 meters away from you let alone hit it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Obviously you don't shot.
> 
> Because if you did.......you wouldn't have made such an ignorant statement.    ......
Click to expand...


I have been shooting since I was 14. I personally do not consider a rifle sniper rile unless it has range of at least 2000 meters. That is 2 KM. Anytime you are shooting a target over 1 KM, you need a scope. It is a common sense. Stop being a troll and contribute something meaningful.


----------



## WinterBorn

Vikrant said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> That price is for the scope.........not the rifle.   ........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, without a scope/lens, a sniper rifle is worth crap. You cannot even effectively see a target without a scope which is about 2000 meters away from you let alone hit it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Obviously you don't shot.
> 
> Because if you did.......you wouldn't have made such an ignorant statement.    ......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have been shooting since I was 14. I personally do not consider a rifle sniper rile unless it has range of at least 2000 meters. That is 2 KM. Anytime you are shooting a target over 1 KM, you need a scope. It is a common sense. Stop being a troll and contribute something meaningful.
Click to expand...


With all due respect, 2000 meters is just under 1.25 miles.    While 1 miles shots are made, they are not common.   The range of the rifle is all well and good, but negating anything that will not do a 1 mile shot is kind of odd.

The rifle used by Carlos Hathcock would not fit your definition.


----------



## Sunni Man

Simo Häyhä was a Finnish sniper during WWll who was nicknamed the "White Death".

He holds the record for the highest number of confirmed kills of any major war .....505 

Simo refused to use a scope because it forced the sniper raise his head in order to see thru the scope.

So consequently, all of his 505 kill shots on Soviet soldiers were with iron sights.    .....    

Simo H yh - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Vikrant

Sunni Man said:


> Simo Häyhä was a Finnish sniper during WWll who was nicknamed the "White Death".
> 
> He holds the record for the highest number of confirmed kills of any major war .....505
> 
> Simo refused to use a scope because it forced the sniper raise his head in order to see thru the scope.
> 
> So consequently, all of his 505 kill shots on Soviet soldiers were with iron sights.    .....
> 
> Simo H yh - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



During WWII, lots of action took place in urban areas where the cities were turned into rubles. These rubles provided excellent hiding spots to snipers that were carrying out resistance against occupying forces. The distances involved were not much. So it was quite possible to do sniping without scope.


----------



## Vikrant

WinterBorn said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> That price is for the scope.........not the rifle.   ........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, without a scope/lens, a sniper rifle is worth crap. You cannot even effectively see a target without a scope which is about 2000 meters away from you let alone hit it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Obviously you don't shot.
> 
> Because if you did.......you wouldn't have made such an ignorant statement.    ......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have been shooting since I was 14. I personally do not consider a rifle sniper rile unless it has range of at least 2000 meters. That is 2 KM. Anytime you are shooting a target over 1 KM, you need a scope. It is a common sense. Stop being a troll and contribute something meaningful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With all due respect, 2000 meters is just under 1.25 miles.    While 1 miles shots are made, they are not common.   The range of the rifle is all well and good, but negating anything that will not do a 1 mile shot is kind of odd.
> 
> The rifle used by Carlos Hathcock would not fit your definition.
Click to expand...


The first rifle I learned to shoot was .303 bolt action that held a magazine of 10 rounds. It was a powerful rifle. I still remember the jolt it gave my shoulders. It had an effective range of 503 meters. The maximum range of the rifle was over 2700 meters. It was a pretty decent range but I never considered that to be sniping range. Snipers usually work in a team of two. They enter the perimeter of the enemy. They take the high value target out and then they get out before they are caught. To be able to escape alive, they need a safe distance between them and the enemy. That is what my common sense tells me.


----------



## WinterBorn

Vikrant said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Simo Häyhä was a Finnish sniper during WWll who was nicknamed the "White Death".
> 
> He holds the record for the highest number of confirmed kills of any major war .....505
> 
> Simo refused to use a scope because it forced the sniper raise his head in order to see thru the scope.
> 
> So consequently, all of his 505 kill shots on Soviet soldiers were with iron sights.    .....
> 
> Simo H yh - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During WWII, lots of action took place in urban areas where the cities were turned into rubles. These rubles provided excellent hiding spots to snipers that were carrying out resistance against occupying forces. The distances involved were not much. So it was quite possible to do sniping without scope.
Click to expand...


Simo Häyhä did most of his sniping outside urban areas.  He used the snow and wilderness to hide.  

Being a true sniper is only partly about being a great shot.  It is equally about being able to remain unseen by the enemy.

The recent years of fighting in the middle east have made the long shots famous.   Carlos hathcock spent 4 days and 3 nights crawlingthru 1,500 yards of open field.  The enemy troops almost stepped on him several times.  When he killed the NVA general, he had to crawl back out while the enemy troops searched for him.   Feats like Hathcock's and Hayha's are what snipers do.


----------



## WinterBorn

Vikrant said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> That price is for the scope.........not the rifle.   ........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, without a scope/lens, a sniper rifle is worth crap. You cannot even effectively see a target without a scope which is about 2000 meters away from you let alone hit it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Obviously you don't shot.
> 
> Because if you did.......you wouldn't have made such an ignorant statement.    ......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have been shooting since I was 14. I personally do not consider a rifle sniper rile unless it has range of at least 2000 meters. That is 2 KM. Anytime you are shooting a target over 1 KM, you need a scope. It is a common sense. Stop being a troll and contribute something meaningful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With all due respect, 2000 meters is just under 1.25 miles.    While 1 miles shots are made, they are not common.   The range of the rifle is all well and good, but negating anything that will not do a 1 mile shot is kind of odd.
> 
> The rifle used by Carlos Hathcock would not fit your definition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The first rifle I learned to shoot was .303 bolt action that held a magazine of 10 rounds. It was a powerful rifle. I still remember the jolt it gave my shoulders. It had an effective range of 503 meters. The maximum range of the rifle was over 2700 meters. It was a pretty decent range but I never considered that to be sniping range. Snipers usually work in a team of two. They enter the perimeter of the enemy. They take the high value target out and then they get out before they are caught. To be able to escape alive, they need a safe distance between them and the enemy. That is what my common sense tells me.
Click to expand...


Or they need exception skills at camoflage and evasion.


----------



## Vikrant

WinterBorn said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Simo Häyhä was a Finnish sniper during WWll who was nicknamed the "White Death".
> 
> He holds the record for the highest number of confirmed kills of any major war .....505
> 
> Simo refused to use a scope because it forced the sniper raise his head in order to see thru the scope.
> 
> So consequently, all of his 505 kill shots on Soviet soldiers were with iron sights.    .....
> 
> Simo H yh - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During WWII, lots of action took place in urban areas where the cities were turned into rubles. These rubles provided excellent hiding spots to snipers that were carrying out resistance against occupying forces. The distances involved were not much. So it was quite possible to do sniping without scope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Simo Häyhä did most of his sniping outside urban areas.  He used the snow and wilderness to hide.
> 
> Being a true sniper is only partly about being a great shot.  It is equally about being able to remain unseen by the enemy.
> 
> The recent years of fighting in the middle east have made the long shots famous.   Carlos hathcock spent 4 days and 3 nights crawlingthru 1,500 yards of open field.  The enemy troops almost stepped on him several times.  When he killed the NVA general, he had to crawl back out while the enemy troops searched for him.   Feats like Hathcock's and Hayha's are what snipers do.
Click to expand...


In my assessment, the most successful sniping campaign was carried out by Soviet resistance against German occupation. The success mainly came from snipers' ability to hide in the rubles that was created by indiscriminate German bombing. Snipers' ability to take shots even from a close range and then disappear among the ruble created a nightmare for Germans.


----------



## Vikrant

WinterBorn said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, without a scope/lens, a sniper rifle is worth crap. You cannot even effectively see a target without a scope which is about 2000 meters away from you let alone hit it.
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously you don't shot.
> 
> Because if you did.......you wouldn't have made such an ignorant statement.    ......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have been shooting since I was 14. I personally do not consider a rifle sniper rile unless it has range of at least 2000 meters. That is 2 KM. Anytime you are shooting a target over 1 KM, you need a scope. It is a common sense. Stop being a troll and contribute something meaningful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With all due respect, 2000 meters is just under 1.25 miles.    While 1 miles shots are made, they are not common.   The range of the rifle is all well and good, but negating anything that will not do a 1 mile shot is kind of odd.
> 
> The rifle used by Carlos Hathcock would not fit your definition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The first rifle I learned to shoot was .303 bolt action that held a magazine of 10 rounds. It was a powerful rifle. I still remember the jolt it gave my shoulders. It had an effective range of 503 meters. The maximum range of the rifle was over 2700 meters. It was a pretty decent range but I never considered that to be sniping range. Snipers usually work in a team of two. They enter the perimeter of the enemy. They take the high value target out and then they get out before they are caught. To be able to escape alive, they need a safe distance between them and the enemy. That is what my common sense tells me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or they need exception skills at camoflage and evasion.
Click to expand...


You will still need distance as cushion even if you are sniping in a rubble or mountainous terrain. The amount of distance you need depends on the terrain. Let us take an example of Afghanistan. This war was known for creating lots new world records in sniping as far as the distance is concerned. This tells you about the importance of distance even in a terrain like Afghanistan where you could easily evade. When you are sniping against guerrilla forces, you want to maintain your distance because they can be quite mobile.


----------



## Sunni Man

Calling soldiers who specialize in 2,000+ meter shots a "sniper" is really a misnomer.

In reality, they are technology based "marksmen" who excel in only one area of the snipers craft.      ......


----------



## Vikrant

Sunni Man said:


> Calling soldiers who specialize in 2,000+ meter shots a "sniper" is really a misnomer.
> 
> In reality, they are technology based "marksmen" who excel in only one area of the snipers craft.      ......



Modern warfare requires modern soldiers. It is the technology which distinguishes a modern soldier. Even the drone pilots are soldiers because their base could get hit.


----------



## WinterBorn

Vikrant said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Calling soldiers who specialize in 2,000+ meter shots a "sniper" is really a misnomer.
> 
> In reality, they are technology based "marksmen" who excel in only one area of the snipers craft.      ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modern warfare requires modern soldiers. It is the technology which distinguishes a modern soldier. Even the drone pilots are soldiers because their base could get hit.
Click to expand...


But to limit sniper rifles only to those capable of accurate shots in excess of 1 mile is not an advantage, imho.


----------



## Vikrant

WinterBorn said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Calling soldiers who specialize in 2,000+ meter shots a "sniper" is really a misnomer.
> 
> In reality, they are technology based "marksmen" who excel in only one area of the snipers craft.      ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modern warfare requires modern soldiers. It is the technology which distinguishes a modern soldier. Even the drone pilots are soldiers because their base could get hit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But to limit sniper rifles only to those capable of accurate shots in excess of 1 mile is not an advantage, imho.
Click to expand...


In a war you need all kinds of weapons to give you an edge. That is not being disputed here. In an urban warfare, technically speaking, you can hide in an alley and possibly take out a target with a 9mm Glock. According to dictionary, that would be sniping. There is no hard fast rule in a war. You have to do what you have to do. But, you also have to categorize weapons too - especially if they require special training. In order to categorize a weapon, you have to assign specific attributes to it that will define qualifying criteria on that weapon. Once you look at a sniper rifle within this context then it is not hard to understand why range becomes an important defining characteristics.


----------



## WinterBorn

Vikrant said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Calling soldiers who specialize in 2,000+ meter shots a "sniper" is really a misnomer.
> 
> In reality, they are technology based "marksmen" who excel in only one area of the snipers craft.      ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modern warfare requires modern soldiers. It is the technology which distinguishes a modern soldier. Even the drone pilots are soldiers because their base could get hit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But to limit sniper rifles only to those capable of accurate shots in excess of 1 mile is not an advantage, imho.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In a war you need all kinds of weapons to give you an edge. That is not being disputed here. In an urban warfare, technically speaking, you can hide in an alley and possibly take out a target with a 9mm Glock. According to dictionary, that would be sniping. There is no hard fast rule in a war. You have to do what you have to do. But, you also have to categorize weapons too - especially if they require special training. In order to categorize a weapon, you have to assign specific attributes to it that will define qualifying criteria on that weapon. Once you look at a sniper rifle within this context then it is not hard to understand why range becomes an important defining characteristics.
Click to expand...


Indeed, it needs to have a good range.  But over a mile?

If you look at a list of the longest distance confirmed kills for snipers, at #8 is CPO Chris Kyle for a 1,920 meter shot.    So 7 snipers have recorded kills at 2,000 meters or more.  At #14 on that list is a SSgt that made a 1,250 meter shot with a bolt action in 7.62x51mm (.308NATO).     So, while a 2,000 meter shot may happen every once in a while, they are still rare.  If a rifle will handle it's work at 1,000 meters it should suffice for all but the most extreme situations and in the hands of only the finest.

Longest recorded sniper kills - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## WinterBorn

Most people think of the Barrett 50 when they think of mile long shots.  And that rifle WILL make the shots.  But it is an extremely specialized piece of equipment.  And the 50 cal cartridge was actually designed to take out equipment and vehicles, not individuals.  The rifle weighs 30+ pounds empty, and it is almost 5 feet long.  And even that rifle is rated with an effective range of 1,800 meters.


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## westwall

Vikrant said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> That price is for the scope.........not the rifle.   ........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, without a scope/lens, a sniper rifle is worth crap. You cannot even effectively see a target without a scope which is about 2000 meters away from you let alone hit it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Obviously you don't shot.
> 
> Because if you did.......you wouldn't have made such an ignorant statement.    ......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have been shooting since I was 14. I personally do not consider a rifle sniper rile unless it has range of at least 2000 meters. That is 2 KM. Anytime you are shooting a target over 1 KM, you need a scope. It is a common sense. Stop being a troll and contribute something meaningful.
Click to expand...






A "sniper rifle" is one that is built for the maximum accuracy with a cold shot, usually for the military or law enforcement, but not exclusively.  When I attended the Thunder Ranch Precision Rifle class back in the day there were a few civilians scattered amongst the military and SWAT personnel.  And range doesn't matter.  Most people can't afford a rifle that can shoot accurately to one kilometer much less two so your qualifier of limiting it to rifles with that capability flies in the face of reason.  Carlos Hathcock used a very good sniper rifle that could hit accurately to around 1.2 clicks.  You going to tell HIM it wasn't?


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## jon_berzerk

Vikrant said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> That price is for the scope.........not the rifle.   ........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, without a scope/lens, a sniper rifle is worth crap. You cannot even effectively see a target without a scope which is about 2000 meters away from you let alone hit it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Obviously you don't shot.
> 
> Because if you did.......you wouldn't have made such an ignorant statement.    ......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have been shooting since I was 14. I personally do not consider a rifle sniper rile unless it has range of at least 2000 meters. That is 2 KM. Anytime you are shooting a target over 1 KM, you need a scope. It is a common sense. Stop being a troll and contribute something meaningful.
Click to expand...



1500 meters when fired from a supported non-benchrest position


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## westwall

WinterBorn said:


> Most people think of the Barrett 50 when they think of mile long shots.  And that rifle WILL make the shots.  But it is an extremely specialized piece of equipment.  And the 50 cal cartridge was actually designed to take out equipment and vehicles, not individuals.  The rifle weighs 30+ pounds empty, and it is almost 5 feet long.  And even that rifle is rated with an effective range of 1,800 meters.







Actually the Barrett is not capable of hitting at person at over one kilometer regularly.  It's not accurate enough.  And, hitting a person at that range also requires luck and the target not moving between shots.  The CEP (circular error probability) of the projectile at those ranges is great enough that the majority of the shots will miss.  The accuracy of a goo .50 cal is 1/2 MOA (minute of angle) that means the group size at one thousand yards is 5 inches.  Ten inches at two thousand yards etc.  If the target is laying down the projectile has a narrow angle where it can hit.  All of that makes those types of shots exceedingly difficult.


----------



## jon_berzerk

westwall said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most people think of the Barrett 50 when they think of mile long shots.  And that rifle WILL make the shots.  But it is an extremely specialized piece of equipment.  And the 50 cal cartridge was actually designed to take out equipment and vehicles, not individuals.  The rifle weighs 30+ pounds empty, and it is almost 5 feet long.  And even that rifle is rated with an effective range of 1,800 meters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually the Barrett is not capable of hitting at person at over one kilometer regularly.  It's not accurate enough.  And, hitting a person at that range also requires luck and the target not moving between shots.  The CEP (circular error probability) of the projectile at those ranges is great enough that the majority of the shots will miss.  The accuracy of a goo .50 cal is 1/2 MOA (minute of angle) that means the group size at one thousand yards is 5 inches.  Ten inches at two thousand yards etc.  If the target is laying down the projectile has a narrow angle where it can hit.  All of that makes those types of shots exceedingly difficult.
Click to expand...



one thing is certain though 

if you hit them with a 50 cal 

it really fucks them up 

i traded a kaiser jeep for one 

fantastic arm 



Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


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## westwall

This is my .50 cal....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   I've connected on a military E target at 2800 meters.  Took 8 tries before the hit though.


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## WinterBorn

westwall said:


> This is my .50 cal....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've connected on a military E target at 2800 meters.  Took 8 tries before the hit though.



That you hit it is amazing.  Good shooting.


----------



## Vikrant

WinterBorn said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Calling soldiers who specialize in 2,000+ meter shots a "sniper" is really a misnomer.
> 
> In reality, they are technology based "marksmen" who excel in only one area of the snipers craft.      ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modern warfare requires modern soldiers. It is the technology which distinguishes a modern soldier. Even the drone pilots are soldiers because their base could get hit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But to limit sniper rifles only to those capable of accurate shots in excess of 1 mile is not an advantage, imho.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In a war you need all kinds of weapons to give you an edge. That is not being disputed here. In an urban warfare, technically speaking, you can hide in an alley and possibly take out a target with a 9mm Glock. According to dictionary, that would be sniping. There is no hard fast rule in a war. You have to do what you have to do. But, you also have to categorize weapons too - especially if they require special training. In order to categorize a weapon, you have to assign specific attributes to it that will define qualifying criteria on that weapon. Once you look at a sniper rifle within this context then it is not hard to understand why range becomes an important defining characteristics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, it needs to have a good range.  But over a mile?
> 
> If you look at a list of the longest distance confirmed kills for snipers, at #8 is CPO Chris Kyle for a 1,920 meter shot.    So 7 snipers have recorded kills at 2,000 meters or more.  At #14 on that list is a SSgt that made a 1,250 meter shot with a bolt action in 7.62x51mm (.308NATO).     So, while a 2,000 meter shot may happen every once in a while, they are still rare.  If a rifle will handle it's work at 1,000 meters it should suffice for all but the most extreme situations and in the hands of only the finest.
> 
> Longest recorded sniper kills - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


I think we are mixing two different aspects. 

I personally think in order for a rile to qualify as a sniper rifle, it has to have an effective range of 2000 meters. That does not mean that taking out a target at a distance of 900 meters is a cake walk. That was the range at which Carlos Hathcock took out most of his targets. But he also recorded hit(s) well over 2000 meters. 

May be we can have two sniper categories: one for very elite group that can take out targets at over 2000 meters and another for those who can take out targets at over 1000 meters. 

From my personal experience, anything in the range of 500 meters is quite challenging to shoot at but I do not think it deserves any special designation such as sniper. However once you start to approach that 1000-meter range, you find yourself in that designation.


----------



## westwall

Vikrant said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Calling soldiers who specialize in 2,000+ meter shots a "sniper" is really a misnomer.
> 
> In reality, they are technology based "marksmen" who excel in only one area of the snipers craft.      ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modern warfare requires modern soldiers. It is the technology which distinguishes a modern soldier. Even the drone pilots are soldiers because their base could get hit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But to limit sniper rifles only to those capable of accurate shots in excess of 1 mile is not an advantage, imho.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In a war you need all kinds of weapons to give you an edge. That is not being disputed here. In an urban warfare, technically speaking, you can hide in an alley and possibly take out a target with a 9mm Glock. According to dictionary, that would be sniping. There is no hard fast rule in a war. You have to do what you have to do. But, you also have to categorize weapons too - especially if they require special training. In order to categorize a weapon, you have to assign specific attributes to it that will define qualifying criteria on that weapon. Once you look at a sniper rifle within this context then it is not hard to understand why range becomes an important defining characteristics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, it needs to have a good range.  But over a mile?
> 
> If you look at a list of the longest distance confirmed kills for snipers, at #8 is CPO Chris Kyle for a 1,920 meter shot.    So 7 snipers have recorded kills at 2,000 meters or more.  At #14 on that list is a SSgt that made a 1,250 meter shot with a bolt action in 7.62x51mm (.308NATO).     So, while a 2,000 meter shot may happen every once in a while, they are still rare.  If a rifle will handle it's work at 1,000 meters it should suffice for all but the most extreme situations and in the hands of only the finest.
> 
> Longest recorded sniper kills - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think we are mixing two different aspects.
> 
> I personally think in order for a rile to qualify as a sniper rifle, it has to have an effective range of 2000 meters. That does not mean that taking out a target at a distance of 900 meters is a cake walk. That was the range at which Carlos Hathcock took out most of his targets. But he also recorded hit(s) well over 2000 meters.
> 
> May be we can have two sniper categories: one for very elite group that can take out targets at over 2000 meters and another for those who can take out targets at over 1000 meters.
> 
> From my personal experience, anything in the range of 500 meters is quite challenging to shoot at but I do not think it deserves any special designation such as sniper. However once you start to approach that 1000-meter range, you find yourself in that designation.
Click to expand...






500 meters, in a high wind, through a small aperture....  You betcha that qualifies as a sniper.  There are many shots that were taken under 500 meters that were far more difficult than a 1,000 meter shot.  Distance isn't the only criteria my friend.


----------



## jon_berzerk

westwall said:


> This is my .50 cal....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've connected on a military E target at 2800 meters.  Took 8 tries before the hit though.




good shooting 

once i hit a 3 ft by 3 ft steel plate 

with my 45 cal cva at 1500 yards 

--LOL

the ball might have bounced once before the hit though 

--LOL


----------



## westwall

jon_berzerk said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is my .50 cal....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've connected on a military E target at 2800 meters.  Took 8 tries before the hit though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> good shooting
> 
> once i hit a 3 ft by 3 ft steel plate
> 
> with my 45 cal cva at 1500 yards
> 
> --LOL
> 
> the ball might have bounced once before the hit though
> 
> --LOL
Click to expand...






It only bounced once?


----------



## jon_berzerk

westwall said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is my .50 cal....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've connected on a military E target at 2800 meters.  Took 8 tries before the hit though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> good shooting
> 
> once i hit a 3 ft by 3 ft steel plate
> 
> with my 45 cal cva at 1500 yards
> 
> --LOL
> 
> the ball might have bounced once before the hit though
> 
> --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It only bounced once?
Click to expand...


--LOL


----------



## Politico

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a dear friend who is a retired navy seal commando - he was the 5th top sniper in the world.  He told me he had been given an offer to buy a sniper rifle from a local where we live for $28,000.00 but he didn't buy it.  I was amazed that they could cost that much!  Who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> Your so called friend (if he even exists) is full of BS
> 
> He isn't a Navy Seal........although he may have seen a seal once at the local zoo.   ....
> 
> No sniper rifle costs $28,000 unless it's gold plated.    .....
Click to expand...

That.


----------



## The Rabbi

Vikrant said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Calling soldiers who specialize in 2,000+ meter shots a "sniper" is really a misnomer.
> 
> In reality, they are technology based "marksmen" who excel in only one area of the snipers craft.      ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modern warfare requires modern soldiers. It is the technology which distinguishes a modern soldier. Even the drone pilots are soldiers because their base could get hit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But to limit sniper rifles only to those capable of accurate shots in excess of 1 mile is not an advantage, imho.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In a war you need all kinds of weapons to give you an edge. That is not being disputed here. In an urban warfare, technically speaking, you can hide in an alley and possibly take out a target with a 9mm Glock. According to dictionary, that would be sniping. There is no hard fast rule in a war. You have to do what you have to do. But, you also have to categorize weapons too - especially if they require special training. In order to categorize a weapon, you have to assign specific attributes to it that will define qualifying criteria on that weapon. Once you look at a sniper rifle within this context then it is not hard to understand why range becomes an important defining characteristics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, it needs to have a good range.  But over a mile?
> 
> If you look at a list of the longest distance confirmed kills for snipers, at #8 is CPO Chris Kyle for a 1,920 meter shot.    So 7 snipers have recorded kills at 2,000 meters or more.  At #14 on that list is a SSgt that made a 1,250 meter shot with a bolt action in 7.62x51mm (.308NATO).     So, while a 2,000 meter shot may happen every once in a while, they are still rare.  If a rifle will handle it's work at 1,000 meters it should suffice for all but the most extreme situations and in the hands of only the finest.
> 
> Longest recorded sniper kills - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think we are mixing two different aspects.
> 
> I personally think in order for a rile to qualify as a sniper rifle, it has to have an effective range of 2000 meters. That does not mean that taking out a target at a distance of 900 meters is a cake walk. That was the range at which Carlos Hathcock took out most of his targets. But he also recorded hit(s) well over 2000 meters.
> 
> May be we can have two sniper categories: one for very elite group that can take out targets at over 2000 meters and another for those who can take out targets at over 1000 meters.
> 
> From my personal experience, anything in the range of 500 meters is quite challenging to shoot at but I do not think it deserves any special designation such as sniper. However once you start to approach that 1000-meter range, you find yourself in that designation.
Click to expand...

Oy, let's dispel some of this.
In Vietnam the average sniper range was about 100-200 meters.  Hilly, densely wooded jungle doesnt make for long shots.  It's not Afghanistan, where high ridges etc allow for that.  Or Iraq, where flat desert does.
The average police sniper shot is about 50 yards or less.  Many police sniper rifles are .223 caliber.  The .223 is effective out to about300, maybe 500 yards.  But it's fine for those applications.
Sniper rifles are defined typically by accuracy.  It used to be 1 MOA was about the standard.  In the 1960s even 2 MOA probably happened.  Now with better materials etc the standard is sub MOA, usually 1/2MOA. A nd that's match grade ammo ideal conditions etc.
I dont recall the longest shot in Afghanistan.  It was a Canadian team and I want to say something like 2600 meters, probably a Barrett 50cal but could have been 338 Lapua Magnum, which is the preferred long range round for Europeans and the US uses it a lot too.


----------



## The Rabbi

I have a Steyr SSG-03 in 308.  It is a fantastic rifle.  Leupold varmint scope on top of it and since my range is limited to 200 yards it works great.  Would love to try it out at 500 or so.


----------



## Politico

Range is limited by the operator. except in the most extreme cases. With a clean line of sight I can reach out and kill you at 400 yards with a scoped 9mm.


----------



## The Rabbi

Politico said:


> Range is limited by the operator. except in the most extreme cases. With a clean line of sight I can reach out and kill you at 400 yards with a scoped 9mm.


What 9mm do you use for 400 yard applications?


----------



## WinterBorn

Politico said:


> Range is limited by the operator. except in the most extreme cases. With a clean line of sight I can reach out and kill you at 400 yards with a scoped 9mm.



Of course.  A .22 long rifle will travel a mile.   But the key point is whether or not you can accurately use the .22 to kill someone that far away.


----------



## Cross

Sunni Man said:


> Calling soldiers who specialize in 2,000+ meter shots a "sniper" is really a misnomer.
> 
> In reality, they are technology based "marksmen" who excel in only one area of the snipers craft.      ......



If they are in the military and a school Qualified Sniper they have all the skills. The washout rate for the Army basic sniper school is about 50%.

A Squad Designated Marksman is a different designation and usually just has expert shooting skills,


----------



## Roadrunner

e





Jeremiah said:


> I have a dear friend who is a retired navy seal commando - he was the 5th top sniper in the world.  He told me he had been given an offer to buy a sniper rifle from a local where we live for $28,000.00 but he didn't buy it.  I was amazed that they could cost that much!  Who knew?   I am forever thankful for meeting him as he has been a great blessing to my husband and I.  Much of what he shared about warfare strategies,etc with regards to his training were things I could apply to spiritual warfare - the similarities are remarkable!  I learned a great deal from him.


A Remington 700 ADL from walmart, or Bass Pro, or any other big store selling these "in house specials" in any number of calibers, is more accurate than 90% of shooters.

Just ditch the junk scope and mounts, and install high quality scope and mounts.

My .223 shoots 1/2", if I use the Hornady 55 SP.

The rifles, even with scope, are usually under 400 dollars.

I have $2,500 in my Browning Safari's, one .30-06, one .300 Win mag.

Both shoot 1/2" from a rest too.


----------



## SmarterThanTheAverageBear

The answer is the M107 of course.


----------



## Mineva

*MKEK JNG 90 - BORA 12  ; *_World's number one sniper rifle in its class. 

Manufactured by Turkiye. 

Night and day shootout champion at sniper shooting competition held in Pakistan. 4 of 5 shots on target in 1000 meters (day) while other snipers cannot even shot one. 5 of 5 shots on target in 300 meters (night) again other snipers cannot even shot one, 5 of 5 shots on target 600 meters (night) while other snipers cannot even shot one.




_


----------



## SmarterThanTheAverageBear

Mineva said:


> *MKEK JNG 90 - BORA 12  ; *_World's number one sniper rifle in its class.
> 
> Manufactured by Turkiye.
> 
> Night and day shootout champion at sniper shooting competition held in Pakistan. 4 of 5 shots on target in 1000 meters (day) while other snipers cannot even shot one. 5 of 5 shots on target in 300 meters (night) again other snipers cannot even shot one, 5 of 5 shots on target 600 meters (night) while other snipers cannot even shot one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _



Simply put I do not believe the claims in this post.

A Marine Recon Sniper could take an old M1 Garand and hit 5 out of 5 targets at 300 yards at night. Big deal.


----------



## Cross

Here's the $28,000 dollar rifle.





It's the TrackingPoint system, a 12 year old could first hit a target at 1000 yds,so they say...

Gun Review TrackingPoint Precision Guided Firearms XS2 - The Truth About Guns
XS1 Precision Guided Firearm TrackingPoint


----------



## westwall

Mineva said:


> *MKEK JNG 90 - BORA 12  ; *_World's number one sniper rifle in its class.
> 
> Manufactured by Turkiye.
> 
> Night and day shootout champion at sniper shooting competition held in Pakistan. 4 of 5 shots on target in 1000 meters (day) while other snipers cannot even shot one. 5 of 5 shots on target in 300 meters (night) again other snipers cannot even shot one, 5 of 5 shots on target 600 meters (night) while other snipers cannot even shot one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _








4 out of 5 at 1000m is not that impressive.  I would expect 5 for 5.  And I agree, 300m at night (depending on light conditions) is not that big a deal.


----------



## Mineva

westwall said:


> 4 out of 5 at 1000m is not that impressive.  I would expect 5 for 5.  And I agree, 300m at night (depending on light conditions) is not that big a deal.




This weapon had better results in front of Rpa Rangemaster (Britain), Accuracy International (Britain), Truvelo (South Africa), Sig Sauer (Switzerland-Usa-Germany co production). There were also some other models but I dont remember.

So while all of these weapons cannot even shot one properly, if this Turkish weapon have 4 of 5 shot on the target, this is a great success. This guns also shots 1.2 cm diameter circle as 5 of 5 shots on target from 100 meters. Others cannot. This weapon also doesnt require resetting telescope after 1000 meters shootouts.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a dear friend who is a retired navy seal commando - he was the 5th top sniper in the world.  He told me he had been given an offer to buy a sniper rifle from a local where we live for $28,000.00 but he didn't buy it.  I was amazed that they could cost that much!  Who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> Your so called friend (if he even exists) is full of BS
> 
> He isn't a Navy Seal........although he may have seen a seal once at the local zoo.   ....
> 
> No sniper rifle costs $28,000 unless it's gold plated.    .....
Click to expand...


Maybe maybe not 




Equipment and Weapons - The Sovereign Military Order of Hyperion


----------



## Cross

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a dear friend who is a retired navy seal commando - he was the 5th top sniper in the world.  He told me he had been given an offer to buy a sniper rifle from a local where we live for $28,000.00 but he didn't buy it.  I was amazed that they could cost that much!  Who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> Your so called friend (if he even exists) is full of BS
> 
> He isn't a Navy Seal........although he may have seen a seal once at the local zoo.   ....
> 
> No sniper rifle costs $28,000 unless it's gold plated.    .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe maybe not
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Equipment and Weapons - The Sovereign Military Order of Hyperion
Click to expand...


Or if size matters the Anzio 20 mm








For $ 11,900 and its real...

49” match grade fluted barrel
Heavy duty clam-shell brake
Detachable box magazine
Available in *14.5mm*, *20mm*, and new *Anzio 20-50* calibers
Titanium firing pin
5000 yard maximum range
Optional weights and configurations
Huge amounts of fun
Low recoil


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## westwall

Mineva said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 4 out of 5 at 1000m is not that impressive.  I would expect 5 for 5.  And I agree, 300m at night (depending on light conditions) is not that big a deal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This weapon had better results in front of Rpa Rangemaster (Britain), Accuracy International (Britain), Truvelo (South Africa), Sig Sauer (Switzerland-Usa-Germany co production). There were also some other models but I dont remember.
> 
> So while all of these weapons cannot even shot one properly, if this Turkish weapon have 4 of 5 shot on the target, this is a great success. This guns also shots 1.2 cm diameter circle as 5 of 5 shots on target from 100 meters. Others cannot. This weapon also doesnt require resetting telescope after 1000 meters shootouts.
Click to expand...







I own a Model 1903A4 which is a US Army WWII sniper rifle and it has no problem hitting at 1000m.  I have a Steyr SSG PII and 1200 meter shots are no problem (it will shoot 1/2 MOA all day long and when I am doing my job 1cm at 100 meters is a no brainer).  A good friend has a AI in .338 Lapua and he obtains 100% hits at 1500 m.  Your claims are simply not credible.


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## westwall

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a dear friend who is a retired navy seal commando - he was the 5th top sniper in the world.  He told me he had been given an offer to buy a sniper rifle from a local where we live for $28,000.00 but he didn't buy it.  I was amazed that they could cost that much!  Who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> Your so called friend (if he even exists) is full of BS
> 
> He isn't a Navy Seal........although he may have seen a seal once at the local zoo.   ....
> 
> No sniper rifle costs $28,000 unless it's gold plated.    .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe maybe not
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Equipment and Weapons - The Sovereign Military Order of Hyperion
Click to expand...






I'll take a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range please....


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## SmarterThanTheAverageBear

westwall said:


> Mineva said:
> 
> 
> 
> *MKEK JNG 90 - BORA 12  ; *_World's number one sniper rifle in its class.
> 
> Manufactured by Turkiye.
> 
> Night and day shootout champion at sniper shooting competition held in Pakistan. 4 of 5 shots on target in 1000 meters (day) while other snipers cannot even shot one. 5 of 5 shots on target in 300 meters (night) again other snipers cannot even shot one, 5 of 5 shots on target 600 meters (night) while other snipers cannot even shot one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4 out of 5 at 1000m is not that impressive.  I would expect 5 for 5.  And I agree, 300m at night (depending on light conditions) is not that big a deal.
Click to expand...

. 
With military grade optics , night isnt even a factor any more


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## Vikrant

Thanks to some fancy folks, we had some interesting discussion on the art of sniping. Although my intention was to keep it sports oriented and keep our target description to paper or tin or plastic. But some of you felt a need to discuss human targets. Let us not do that. 

Concealable handguns are great. How about concealable sniper rifle? There is one actually. It is called Remington CSR Rucksack. You can carry it in a Pelican backpack. That is neat. The ammo is standard NATO 7.62mm / WIN 3.08. It is bolt action. Here are some pictures of this CSR in assembled and dissembled  forms. If you want to read more, follow the link below the images. 











Remington Defense CSR Concealable Sniper Rifle 8216 Rucksack Rifle Lightweight Compact 7.62mm NATO .308 Win. Bolt-Action Breakdown Takedown Suppressed Sniper Carbine with 14 8243 -16 8243 Proof Research Carbon Fiber-Wrapped Barrel for Your Backpack Video DefenseReview.com DR An online tactical technology and military defense technology magazine with particular focus on the latest and greatest tactical firearms news tactical gun news tactical gear news and tactical shooting news.


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## Cross

Vikrant said:


> Thanks to some fancy folks, we had some interesting discussion on the art of sniping. Although my intention was to keep it sports oriented and keep our target description to paper or tin or plastic. But some of you felt a need to discuss human targets. Let us not do that.
> 
> Concealable handguns are great. How about concealable sniper rifle? There is one actually. It is called Remington CSR Rucksack. You can carry it in a Pelican backpack. That is neat. The ammo is standard NATO 7.62mm / WIN 3.08. It is bolt action. Here are some pictures of this CSR in assembled and dissembled  forms. If you want to read more, follow the link below the images.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remington Defense CSR Concealable Sniper Rifle 8216 Rucksack Rifle Lightweight Compact 7.62mm NATO .308 Win. Bolt-Action Breakdown Takedown Suppressed Sniper Carbine with 14 8243 -16 8243 Proof Research Carbon Fiber-Wrapped Barrel for Your Backpack Video DefenseReview.com DR An online tactical technology and military defense technology magazine with particular focus on the latest and greatest tactical firearms news tactical gun news tactical gear news and tactical shooting news.



You know what the MOA is?


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## westwall

Vikrant said:


> Thanks to some fancy folks, we had some interesting discussion on the art of sniping. Although my intention was to keep it sports oriented and keep our target description to paper or tin or plastic. But some of you felt a need to discuss human targets. Let us not do that.
> 
> Concealable handguns are great. How about concealable sniper rifle? There is one actually. It is called Remington CSR Rucksack. You can carry it in a Pelican backpack. That is neat. The ammo is standard NATO 7.62mm / WIN 3.08. It is bolt action. Here are some pictures of this CSR in assembled and dissembled  forms. If you want to read more, follow the link below the images.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remington Defense CSR Concealable Sniper Rifle 8216 Rucksack Rifle Lightweight Compact 7.62mm NATO .308 Win. Bolt-Action Breakdown Takedown Suppressed Sniper Carbine with 14 8243 -16 8243 Proof Research Carbon Fiber-Wrapped Barrel for Your Backpack Video DefenseReview.com DR An online tactical technology and military defense technology magazine with particular focus on the latest and greatest tactical firearms news tactical gun news tactical gear news and tactical shooting news.










Looks cool but I really would like it if they came up with something better than the Harris Bipod.


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## Vikrant

Cross said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to some fancy folks, we had some interesting discussion on the art of sniping. Although my intention was to keep it sports oriented and keep our target description to paper or tin or plastic. But some of you felt a need to discuss human targets. Let us not do that.
> 
> Concealable handguns are great. How about concealable sniper rifle? There is one actually. It is called Remington CSR Rucksack. You can carry it in a Pelican backpack. That is neat. The ammo is standard NATO 7.62mm / WIN 3.08. It is bolt action. Here are some pictures of this CSR in assembled and dissembled  forms. If you want to read more, follow the link below the images.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remington Defense CSR Concealable Sniper Rifle 8216 Rucksack Rifle Lightweight Compact 7.62mm NATO .308 Win. Bolt-Action Breakdown Takedown Suppressed Sniper Carbine with 14 8243 -16 8243 Proof Research Carbon Fiber-Wrapped Barrel for Your Backpack Video DefenseReview.com DR An online tactical technology and military defense technology magazine with particular focus on the latest and greatest tactical firearms news tactical gun news tactical gear news and tactical shooting news.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know what the MOA is?
Click to expand...


MOA stands for Minute of Angle. Your target is basically 360 degrees in a plain which lies perpendicular to your line of sight. Each of those degrees can be divide into sixty minutes. The amplified light wave which leaves your scope actually expands as it traverses the distance. There have been some measurements done both in metrics and  yards. In yards, the light wave pretty much expands 1.047 inch per 100 yards. For practical purposes, you can round this up and say that this expansion is 1 inch per 100 yards. So you could say that 1 MOA at 100 yards is 1 inch. Using that formula we know that 1 MOA at 200 yards would be 2 inches. As you guessed it, 1 MOA at 300 yards would be 3 inches. 

So why do we need to know this when trying to become a good sniper? 

There are many things that affect the accuracy of your shot. The biggest factor of them all is the gravity which pulls the bullet down. There is a discipline in mathematics which is dedicated to predicting the trajectory of projectile and it is called ballistics. In a nutshell what ballistics tells us is that the trajectory is dependent on the velocity and the density of the projectile. So in the beginning phase, a bullet travels almost straight then it rapidly starts to fall towards the ground as its speed diminishes on its travel course. Let us say for a given rifle/ammo, the bullet drops 4 inches after 200 yards. This clearly means that we need to adjust MOA in the scope. If you go back to the formula I have given above, you will see that 1 MOA at 200 yards translates to 2 inches. So this means that we will need to make an adjustment  of 2 MOA in our scope in order to hit the target accurately.


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## Bleipriester

Someone to help me bypassing German law?


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## Doggy

I would like to see us have a monthly/weekly shoot.Post a target and every body shoot...Just for fun,of course.Maybe us bad shooters could get help/pointers.


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## Kracker Pleaze

I'm all for a monthly shoot, but I have a cash flow problem, can you send me some ammo so I can compete?


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## Gunman

Sniper rifle can cost more than $28,000.oo If it has a M-60 Tank attached to it...!!!!!


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## Gunman

Kracker Pleaze said:


> I'm all for a monthly shoot, but I have a cash flow problem, can you send me some ammo so I can compete?



Sure what kind you need and how big is your Knife...????


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## Gunman

Monthly shoot off --- Any Gun ,,, Any Sight... Any Range... ???


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## Doggy

We need a Mod. to make some rules.


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## Kracker Pleaze

I shoot a 350


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## Judicial review

We got to pick a target, guys.  and i wonder who it will be...... hmmmmm...........


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## bigrebnc1775

Kracker Pleaze said:


> I'm all for a monthly shoot, but I have a cash flow problem, can you send me some ammo so I can compete?


Will you fill out an ATF 4473?


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## Gunman

KP you got a 350...?? Would like ta help you BUT the biggest thing I have is a .338 --- SO check with that Doggie Guy he may have something big enough ta fit your Knife...


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## Gunman

Shot this one a while back 100 yrds with a 6mmBR


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## Gunman

Shot this one today @ 100 yrds in 15-18 mph gust to 25 mph Note head shot on da FLY between # 1 & 
# 2 ...!!!!


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## Vikrant

Gunman said:


> Shot this one today @ 100 yrds in 15-18 mph gust to 25 mph Note head shot on da FLY between # 1 &
> # 2 ...!!!!View attachment 35012



That is a beautiful fly.


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## Gunman

I got some JPEG's of real fly's , Love Bugs & spiders that were crazy enough to land on my targets...
Ust-ta put a little Dab-O-Honey on the target and Pop da Bees when they would land BUT the range
owner Wife got ticked-off at me and made me Quit that....!!!!


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## Vikrant

I love outdoor range. Unfortunately, we do not have any that I know of where I live.


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## Doggy

Is all them five shots?..The Vmax are looking good..I had`nt shot in two weeks,due to that dang rock..Will shoot the .243 300 yards on Monday,hell or high water.


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## Gunman

Nah--- I didn't load enough foul rounds ... I was cleaning after ever ten rounds... shooting three foul
shots at rocks after each cleaning...  When I shot that pinwheel on # 6 just left it and shot 4 rounds
on # 7 --- dand win was gusting to 25 MPH so I didn't feel like playing in da wind so I just pop shot # 8
just so I could clean go home and watch Football...!!!!!


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## Gunman

Talked to Gunsmith.. Said he was going Home for Christmas... Won't start on my new gun till after
Christmas.. Bummer... am looking forward to getting that mew Weaver XR scope to put on da gun..
Going ta use those Burris Signature 30mm Rings... Have got one set & I like-em...


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## Kracker Pleaze

Send it to me, I'll start on it rat now


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## TakeAStepBack

Weatherby 270 w/leupold comp scope.


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