# Greatest Athlete Ever



## SandSquid (Jun 14, 2019)

Figure this would be fun to get opinions.   Each has it's own merit.   Be it the impact/popularity of the sport, the level above others they are, the team vs. solo sport debate, etc... 

Who do you think is the Greatest Athlete Ever?

A few I would throw out there. 

Jim Brown- Lettered 13 times in 5 sports in high-school.  NFL, NCAA football, and Lacrosse HOFer.  Arguably greatest NFL and Lacrosse player ever (2 sports!).  Dominated the NFL.  Set records until he was bored, and sometimes would double what the next best guy could do.  The one complaint I've heard is he wasn't a great blocker, which I say If you are keeping him in to block, you are failing and using him wrong.  It's like saying Babe Ruth wasn't a great bunter. 

Michael Phelps- most dominant Olympian ever.   Lets just say he broke Leonidas of Rhodes 2100 year old olympic medal record.  Tough to call a record breaking accomplishment better than that one.  

Pele- 1281 goals and 3 world cups.  Best player in the most popular sport in the world. 

Muhammad Ali- lost a lot of his prime with the Vietnam draft.  But was the best in a STACKED heavyweight field.  

Babe Zaharias- Arguably best female athlete ever, track and field, and golf champion.  


Womens tennis I think is too close (Navratilova, Serena, Graf, Court)
Same with Mens tennis (Federer, Nadal and now Djokovic).

Baseball I don't know well enough

Golf is tight (Snead, Nicklaus, Tiger, Hogan, Palmer)

Basketball is tight and so dependent on so much more.  Russell won 11 championships in 13 years.   Wilt had the most dominant years.  Jabbar had an insanely long elite career.   Jordan was magical, and Lebron is doing things now with all around play and longetivity that are scary.  




Some others I wouldn't put in there but fun to talk about.

Sugar Ray Robinson  213-1-2 record as a fighter by age 30 (amateur and pro).   Wow.  258 wins before he hung them up.  

Jim Thorpe- Olympic gold, and pro football, baseball, and basketball player

Lance Armstrong - if only clean

Kelly Slater and Tony Hawk - not super popular sports, but they rocked them

Florence Griffith Joyner.   STILL holds the 100m and 200m womens records over 20 years later.  In an era it seems these fall like domino's that is impressive.


Herschel Walker.   Ok a bit of homerism here, was a huge fan and always liked him.   at 230 lbs and football weight was able to set the 60m collegiate record (broken in the next heat by Carl Lewis....).   A legit track demon, nearly made both summer and winter olympics (winter made bobsled, summer was Taekwondo, but the US failed to qualify).   And just blew guys away in any of the "superstars" challenge for athletes back in the day.  One of the best college backs ever, 5500 rushing yards in his 3 USFL seasons, and just a freak.  

Still does an insane body weight workout, and in his 50's was winning fights in MMA.  

30+ years of aging shouldn't look like this.  

 

 

Wayne Gretzky.   It's a team sport and not a super popular one.   But you don't wear 99 in hockey period anymore because of him.  If he'd never scored a goal in his career, he'd be the all time points leader.  

Jerry Rice.  I already called Brown for football, but his ability and his longetivity are unrivaled.  

Nadia Comaneci- the perfect 10 in gymnastics.  

Lionel Conacher - Hockey Hall of Fame, the Canadian Football Hall of Fame, and the Canadian Lacrosse Hall of Fame.  Won a Grey Cup (CFL champ), an International Professional Lacrosse League championship, a Stanley Cup (NHL Champ), an international league championship (Baseball pro league in 1930's), and was the Canadian amateur light-heavyweight boxing championship.  

There's a story he won a baseball championship, then ran across town to join his pro-lacrosse team which was losing 0-3, and scored 4 goals to give them a win.


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## JoeMoma (Jun 14, 2019)

Bruce Jenner when he was a he and not a she or it.


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## BuckToothMoron (Jun 14, 2019)

You should have an honorable mention for Alex Honnold from free solo. No body has prepared longer for a single event that took 3 hours, and if it wasn’t done perfectly  he would have died. Physical endurance and mental focus beyond any single athletic accomplishment. How he didn’t win Athlete of the Year I will never understand.


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## BuckToothMoron (Jun 14, 2019)




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## Wyatt earp (Jun 14, 2019)

MJ



Thread closed


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## Darkwind (Jun 14, 2019)

Billy Bob Ray Woodsmoke.






The only true competitor who could draw down a half-gallon of the hard mash -- the Acetones and aldehydes, known as the 'heads' included  -- and live to tell the tale.

The man's liver was a machine!!!!


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## harmonica (Jun 15, 2019)

.....Phelps was not the most dominant ....the swimmers just have more medal races---so if they are good in one race, they will be good in others
...the USA basketball players were much more dominant ..they don't have:
the half court game
the 3/4 court game
3 vs 3
etc etc
if the BBall players had 20 medal games, they would've won 20 medals
....main point being: just because they win so many medals doesn't mean they are dominant/great


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## DGS49 (Jun 15, 2019)

Sorry, but without parameters it is impossible to say.

Does ATHLETE refer to individual strength, flexibility, quickness and endurance (Olympic Decathlon), or does it refer to dominance in a competitive sport (Babe Ruth, Tiger Woods)?  Are you talking about one outstanding season (Denny McLain) or a career (Henry Aaron, Gordy Howe)?  Do you include athletes who COULD have dominated, but whose careers were cut short by injury or other tragedy (e.g., Bo Jackson)?  Do you allow for changes in the sport over time (Rod Laver vs. Novak Djokovic)?  How about athletes who were *occasionally* super-human (Nolan Ryan)?

Without parameters, I can't answer.


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## harmonica (Jun 15, 2019)

the women are obviously not the greatest at all--not even close


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## DGS49 (Jun 15, 2019)

But Serena could be considered the most dominant player in the history of tennis, regardless of gender.  Indeed, the only time she loses is when she has the occasional mental lapse or when she is injured.  Otherwise, it's lights out for her opponent, and it has been thus for nearly 20 years.  What other athlete can say the same?


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## westwall (Jun 15, 2019)

DGS49 said:


> But Serena could be considered the most dominant player in the history of tennis, regardless of gender.  Indeed, the only time she loses is when she has the occasional mental lapse or when she is injured.  Otherwise, it's lights out for her opponent, and it has been thus for nearly 20 years.  What other athlete can say the same?







Pele, Mayweather, Bolt, there are others, but off the top of my head...


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## rightwinger (Jun 15, 2019)

Bo Jackson was one of the best I saw. Too bad he had such a short career

Overall, I’d go ..

Ali, Ruth, Jordan, Gretzky, Brady


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 15, 2019)

Todays athletes are far superior than those of old.
Bigger,faster and stronger so it's really hard to say.


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## sealybobo (Jun 15, 2019)

JoeMoma said:


> Bruce Jenner when he was a he and not a she or it.


You beat me to it. Lol. Bruce is my answer too

Michael Jordan was the best basketball player
Barry Sanders best running back
Aaron Rogers best qb
Ken Griffey jr baseball
Royce Gracie greatest fighter ever.
Roy Jones jr best boxer
Geordie Howe best hockey player ever


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## rightwinger (Jun 15, 2019)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Todays athletes are far superior than those of old.
> Bigger,faster and stronger so it's really hard to say.


Very true


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## SandSquid (Jun 17, 2019)

DGS49 said:


> But Serena could be considered the most dominant player in the history of tennis, regardless of gender.  Indeed, the only time she loses is when she has the occasional mental lapse or when she is injured.  Otherwise, it's lights out for her opponent, and it has been thus for nearly 20 years.  What other athlete can say the same?




Well that depends.  Court won more grand slams (Serena is one away though).  Evert, Graf, and Court all have better winning %'s at Grand Slam events. and Graf has a better record than Serena overall.

Navratilova won 1442 games and 167 WTA events.  Serena is at 743 and 72.  

I think she's the most physically dominant, and may be the best ever in the sport, but there's some data there that says maybe not.  Maybe just the best marketed of the dominant female tennis players.


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## SandSquid (Jun 17, 2019)

DGS49 said:


> Sorry, but without parameters it is impossible to say.
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> Does ATHLETE refer to individual strength, flexibility, quickness and endurance (Olympic Decathlon), or does it refer to dominance in a competitive sport (Babe Ruth, Tiger Woods)?  Are you talking about one outstanding season (Denny McLain) or a career (Henry Aaron, Gordy Howe)?  Do you include athletes who COULD have dominated, but whose careers were cut short by injury or other tragedy (e.g., Bo Jackson)?  Do you allow for changes in the sport over time (Rod Laver vs. Novak Djokovic)?  How about athletes who were *occasionally* super-human (Nolan Ryan)?
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> Without parameters, I can't answer.



Kinda leaving the parameters up to the poster. 

 If you think that Jenner is it, I can get that.  If you think the best athletes are those today with modern training and conditioning, well Jenner doesn't even have a top 25 decathalon score anymore.  And one could argue Daley Thompson or even Eaton was better.  

What about Thorpe?  Had his shoes stolen right before the event.   Found a pair made up of two different shoes out of the trash, and went and set a decathalon record that stood for almost 20 years.  Then followed up his NCAA football championship with an NFL Hall of Fame career.   And played some pro-baseball for the Giants and Reds to round out his career.  

If you think Bo is it, that makes sense but if you think there is something to be said for a player like Nolan who was able to keep playing for decades, so be it.


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## Jitss617 (Jun 17, 2019)

Larry bird


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## G.T. (Jun 17, 2019)

Michael Jordan in basketball. He had the fan fare, the heart and determination, the work ethic, the skill, the look and he didn't benefit from the size of a Center. He's my favorite athlete of all time, and LeBron is not even top 10, to me. Statistically, sure, but LeBron throws up a lot of those goofy, un-coordinated bricks....and his dribble benefits greatly from how far he sticks his elbows out...his body mass is just wide, and strong - but skill-wise, he does a lot of suspect shit and heart-wise, he's bottom tier. I'd never trust him in a finals game 7.


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## rightwinger (Jun 17, 2019)

SandSquid said:


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Jenner was the most hyped track athlete ever. He won one Decathlon and was not overly dominant. Decathlon is overrated in terms of athletic prowess. Give me Carl Lewis or Ussain Bolt any day

Thorpe was most dominant of his era, but the era did not have outstanding athletes and sports was not really a career 

Today has the best athletes ever. They have the best facilities, best training and best drugs


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## SandSquid (Jun 17, 2019)

G.T. said:


> Michael Jordan in basketball. He had the fan fare, the heart and determination, the work ethic, the skill, the look and he didn't benefit from the size of a Center. He's my favorite athlete of all time, and LeBron is not even top 10, to me. Statistically, sure, but LeBron throws up a lot of those goofy, un-coordinated bricks....and his dribble benefits greatly from how far he sticks his elbows out...his body mass is just wide, and strong - but skill-wise, he does a lot of suspect shit and heart-wise, he's bottom tier. I'd never trust him in a finals game 7.



That's tough there for me.  Lebron shoots a % that usually is relegated to big men only shooting at the basket, but does it with a high number of outside shots.  His shooting with the game on the line in the clutch is pretty insane, right there with Jordan.  Under 10 seconds to tie/win, Jordan is 7/15 in the playoffs.  Lebron is 12/23.  Kobe is 5/22.  

And for game 7 in a finals, if you didn't trust him and bet against him you'd lose every time thus far.  The triple double and chase down block vs. the best record team in NBA history, and the game 7 vs. the Spurs with 37 points when Bosh/Allen combined for 0 points was pretty amazing are his two.  That first one he capped the first playoff series ever where a player led both teams in points, boards, assists, blocks, and steals.  All 5 categories, all 26 players. Vs. a team that hadn't lost back to back games all year, trying to win 3 in a row and 4 out of 5 vs. them.   

32 points 11.5 boards, 7.5 assists, 2 steals and 1.5 blocks with 89% free throw shooting, and 40% from 3 in game 7's is pretty impressive and is a big part why he is 2-0 in finals game 7's.  Doing that against two of the best dynasties of the past 25 years, and against players like Kawhi, and Green/Igoudala is also quite nice.  

In his last 16 win or go home playoff games, Lebron has a 12-4 record, with 35.5 pts, 11.5 boards, 7.5 assists, 2 blocks and 1.5 steals a game on 52% shooting.


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## G.T. (Jun 17, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> G.T. said:
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> > Michael Jordan in basketball. He had the fan fare, the heart and determination, the work ethic, the skill, the look and he didn't benefit from the size of a Center. He's my favorite athlete of all time, and LeBron is not even top 10, to me. Statistically, sure, but LeBron throws up a lot of those goofy, un-coordinated bricks....and his dribble benefits greatly from how far he sticks his elbows out...his body mass is just wide, and strong - but skill-wise, he does a lot of suspect shit and heart-wise, he's bottom tier. I'd never trust him in a finals game 7.
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Ever since the beginning of the 90s, Jordans never let his team go home deep in the playoffs.

Thats what is meant by heart and dominance, and in a much more physical era. Ive watched lebron be a quitter with my own two eyeballs, Im not sure which statistic that can be filed under.

Ive watched lebron be clunky and goofy looking as hell..im not sure which statistic that can be filed under. He's a streaky shooter, and since nobody can block most of his shots because of his massive frame - that generically boosts his statistics.

Lebron is not a lion. Hes boy hearted in a lion's body. He dominates when he feels like it or when his body can take it, and he gasses a lot.

Ill never forget his first playoffs with Miami...late in games vs. (i think the celtics), instead of taking over when it mattered most....he was bizarrely passing the ball away like a hot potato.

He does weird shit like that when the team needs him to take over.


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## mdk (Jun 17, 2019)

It's nice that ya'll made a thread about me. Very flattering and all, but I am compelled by modesty to forsake the honor.


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## SandSquid (Jun 17, 2019)

G.T. said:


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Well he mostly takes over when they need him to take over.   Like I said, his record and numbers when up against the wall speak for themselves.  Yeah, almost 10 years ago he was a different player but I think that change which now has him hitting more clutch shots and playing more dominantly in those situations than arguably anyone is quite a testament to that change.


G.T. said:


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He used to.  But at the same age when he didn't step up vs the Mavs, was the year Jordan crumbled vs the Pistons in the ecf.  

Not sure about the "not taking over" bit vs the C's that year.  Last game to get to the finals, tie game he scored Miami's last 10 points in 2 minutes.  

Game before he scored their last 7 points and 11 of their last 13 to force OT and gave them the lead for good in OT. Win before that he led all scorers with a dozen in the 4th.

The bulls series that year he went lockdown on Rose at the end of games, taking the toughest assignment...  and to close out the series led Miami with 8 of their final 12 points (assisted on 3 of the other 4 points). Game before led all scorers in OT with 6.  Game before 8 of their last 12.  That finals was really only his major drop, and after that he quit being the guy who'd try to playmake.  

I don't put LeBron at the same level as Jordan. But damn those are some big 4th quarters and while you may remember them differently, what he did was pretty impressive there.


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## Unkotare (Jun 17, 2019)

Milo of Croton


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

G.T. said:


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Jordan never went deep into the playoffs until he got help in the form of Pippen. Lebron put teams on his back that shouldnt have had a chance at going deep. Lebron is pure power and athleticism. Jordan is more skill and athleticism  Skill is not athleticism. Lebron jumps higher, way stronger, and is much faster than MJ


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> Figure this would be fun to get opinions.   Each has it's own merit.   Be it the impact/popularity of the sport, the level above others they are, the team vs. solo sport debate, etc...
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> Who do you think is the Greatest Athlete Ever?
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Greatest athlete is always going to be an opinion. Its like saying what genre of music is the greatest.  I like muli talented guys that could have or have played more than one sport professionally.  Guys like Wilt Chamberlain, Lebron James, Bo Jackson, Jackie Robinson, Deon Sanders, etc.


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## Marion Morrison (Jun 23, 2019)

LT! boy, if you ever saw him make a stick in the backfield, damn!
He was serious business. Yeah, I saw that 1st hand. LT was for real.#56

I've made a stick a time or two like that, but he owns the copyright on it!
That mothefucker is badass! Who else? Oh yeah, The Bucs dude..he just launches his body at people. John Lynch. Back in the day there were 3 on the Bucs like that..

Sapp, Brooks..and..somebody..Dungy let him go..I was surprised, because he did kick ass. Broderick Thomas, maybe?


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## Unkotare (Jun 23, 2019)

Marion Morrison said:


> LT! boy, if you ever saw him make a stick in the backfield, damn!
> He was serious business. Yeah, I saw that 1st hand. LT was for real...]




Yeah, he could really get all over those underage prostitutes.


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## rightwinger (Jun 23, 2019)

Asclepias said:


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Chamberlain was an exceptional track athlete 
High jump and long jump were obvious, but he was also exceedingly fast for a big man and threw shot put


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## rightwinger (Jun 23, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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He was framed


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## Likkmee (Jun 23, 2019)

Broothey Jenner


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## rightwinger (Jun 23, 2019)

Likkmee said:


> Broothey Jenner


Jenner was overrated and highly hyped
Not even one of the best decathletes


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## Likkmee (Jun 23, 2019)

OK. His best friend ?


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

Asclepias said:


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Jordan wasn't in his prime until Pippen, either, so thats a bit of a misnomer ~ and according to NYT and Sports Illustrated, Jordan ran a 4.3 40 and LeBron a 4.6 40...and .3 is a significant difference in a 40. 

LeBron could literally be better though, at every single stat period, hell - give him by DOUBLE....but Ive seen him GIVE UP, numerous times, and heart was always the difference maker and why LeBron is not greater than Michael. Mike's the g.o.a.t., and did so with a smaller frame and in the physical era, with the harder nosed greats versus today's bomb-shooters.


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## Unkotare (Jun 23, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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By the bed in the flea-bag hotel.


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## Marion Morrison (Jun 23, 2019)

Lawrence Motherfuckin' Taylor! Damn right!

How come I ain't seen nobody like that since, hmm? Damn! Check out the young Dungy.


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## Marion Morrison (Jun 23, 2019)

G.T. said:


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Jordan and Pippen were a thing of beauty.


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## harmonica (Jun 23, 2019)

DGS49 said:


> But Serena could be considered the most dominant player in the history of tennis, regardless of gender.  Indeed, the only time she loses is when she has the occasional mental lapse or when she is injured.  Otherwise, it's lights out for her opponent, and it has been thus for nearly 20 years.  What other athlete can say the same?


she has man genes--unfair


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

Marion Morrison said:


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Hands down my favorite era of sports. Everything now is all watered down.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

Marion Morrison said:


> Lawrence Motherfuckin' Taylor! Damn right!
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> How come I ain't seen nobody like that since, hmm? Damn! Check out the young Dungy.


LT

joe montana & steve young throwing to jerry rice. the speed of deon sanders...the cowboys era. 

barry fuggin sanders

wayne gretzky. bo jackson. darryl strawberry, wade boggs.. don mattingly.. the rocket. magic. bird. the knicks with starks and ewing..the stockton and malone jazz....the gary payton and shawn kemp supersonics : 0

kevin johnson, dan marley and chuck barkley on the suns

penny and shaq for a brief moment

sports was so much better back then 

85 to 99 prolly the best sports era ill ever see

mike tyson
roy jones jr

fuckkk


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## Marion Morrison (Jun 23, 2019)

G.T. said:


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When they went to the Olympics, that was cool AF. I think Mutumbo was the center.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

Marion Morrison said:


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They had Ewing on the dream team...and the dream...but mutombo was likely there 

it was like the 1st 3 teams that were amazing, and after that is when bigger named players started opting out for fear of injury


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## Marion Morrison (Jun 23, 2019)

We had Steve Young for a bit here, and you know who taught Steve Young? Joe Money, baby.

Montana/Rice was something!


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

Marion Morrison said:


> We had Steve Young for a bit here, and you know who taught Steve Young? Joe Money, baby.


i was a teen in the 90s and its when sports center got big and i got to watch it each day b4 school...and sports was just way more exciting and put together then, for some reason. 

lebron james...get theeeee fuck outta here. the best basketball frame ever born on a human and he struggles on big city franchises to put it the fuck together. fuck his stats...he needs a heart. he gets cramps and gets tummy aches. the fuck


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## Marion Morrison (Jun 23, 2019)

Lew Alcindor=Lebron James. About the same.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

Marion Morrison said:


> Lew Alcindor=Lebron James.


Lebron is why I quit watching the NBA, after I saw the quitter in him too many times to count....and believe me Marion, I am as die hard Basketball as anyone alive.


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## Marion Morrison (Jun 23, 2019)

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I love the game, it's the purest sport. Head fakes, pump fakes..it's a great game. I'm good at stealing and making 2-3 pointers. Good at stealing and dishing off to someone that can take it to the hole, too.

I like basketball.


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## Unkotare (Jun 23, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Milo of Croton


 

No one agrees?


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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Jordan was more in his prime than Lebron when they both came into the league.  However thats not really about athletics. Sports Science actually researched Lebron and he is a freak athlete. You have to understand the things Lebron does and can do with his body and weight are not even normal.  When he passes he releases the ball faster than most NFL quarterbacks and with more velocity than Tom Brady. Even without the actual measurements, they eye test shows that Lebron is by far the better athlete. 

Not to sure about those speed measurements on MJ. If Jordan ran a 4.3 then youre saying he is just as fast as Usain Bolt who did a 4.2.(which by the way ties the record for the fastest ever in the NFL combine.) I highly doubt.that claim.  I'd have to see footage of that one. Sounds like a legend to me. I believe the only stat MJ can claim is that he had a higher vertical.which he should because he was way lighter than Lebron even when Lebron was a rookie.  The only other player I would put in Lebrons category was just drafted by the Pelicans. Zion is a freak athlete as well.


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

G.T. said:


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You quit watching the NBA because you assume Lebron quit and you call yourself a fan?  As a basketball fan Lebron is one of the greatest examples of how basketball should be played. The stuff Lebron does is amazing and I am not just talking the physical stuff. The decision making and skill level at which he does things is something a real fan of the sport would appreciate.


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## rightwinger (Jun 23, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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The guy couldn’t hit a curveball


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

Asclepias said:


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I assume? No, I watched. He is pussified, I dont stomach guys that puss out.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

Asclepias said:


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Lebron is a big goof with a freak physique and has no guts.


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## rightwinger (Jun 23, 2019)

G.T. said:


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One of the most dominating players of all time


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

G.T. said:


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Yes you assume. Unless youre claiming youre a mind reader you are voicing an assumption. Did Lebron ever say he quit at anything?


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

Asclepias said:


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Yepp, he quit vs the celts

vs the mavs

after i saw that i peaced out and hes only had a couple chips since

hes the lowest will to win of all the greats. not even top 20 in will.


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

G.T. said:


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If he had no guts he wouldnt be the superstar he is now.  You cant dominate in the NBA like he has for that long without having guts.


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

G.T. said:


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Please post the video of him saying he quit. Please provide facts not feelings to support your argument.


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

G.T. said:


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*"hes only had a couple chips since"
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How could he have any chips if he quit?


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## rightwinger (Jun 23, 2019)

G.T. said:


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Bullshit

LeBron has the ability to take a team on his shoulders and will them to victory


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## Eric Arthur Blair (Jun 23, 2019)

DGS49 said:


> But Serena could be considered the most dominant player in the history of tennis, regardless of gender. Indeed, the only time she loses is when she has the occasional mental lapse or when she is injured. Otherwise, it's lights out for her opponent, and it has been thus for nearly 20 years. What other athlete can say the same?


Roger Federer for one. Serena hit her expiration date about a year ago and her one shot at that last Grand Slam title she wants so bad she fucked up at the US Open by melting down against Naomi Osaka.
Great player...horrible person....she is just staying in place now. She has already won her last Slam title.
There will likely be no more.

And the greatest athlete? It could well be someone you never heard of: Russian super heavyweight wrestler Aleksandr Karelin with an unbelievable career record of 887 wins and two loses. Aleksandr Karelin - Wikipedia
Opponents knew they would never win. They just hoped to leave the mat uninjured as his signature move was picking up other super heavyweights like a bag of potatoes and slamming them down on their backs.

He was an unbelievable monster.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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yea you can. 

be big.

shaq couldnt shoot from 7feet out, and he was a dominant center. 

actually the era of decent centers peaced out in the early 2000s and cleared the way for more abundant big forward scoring

clyde the glide had more heart than lebron


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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Thats just it...

he has the ability but only has how many rings


orrr...is it only sometimes has the ability and he needs suport...


or..is it he always has the ability....but wusses out


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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He didnt always quit. 

You might have short term memory loss...but the years he won his chips were years coming off ESPN hyperbole about his legacy wasting away


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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Thats a really corny retort. 


Its my opinion he quit...we didnt have a sit down heart to heart bro


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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I dont care how big you are. You cant dominate if you have no guts. If being big was prerequisite for dominating then why didnt Tractor Traylor dominate?


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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One person cant beat a team. Its never been done in the history of team sports.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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Because Traylor was below average, and I kean below the average kid playing down at the park that never made it anywhere....and the fact you even know his name is cuz he was the size of a tractor


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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So basically youre claiming that if he didnt win it all he quit?  Not understanding how you came to this conclusion.


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## rightwinger (Jun 23, 2019)

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Rings don’t show individual dominance, they show team dominance 

There was never a more dominant player than Wilt Chamberlain, but Bill Russell had more rings

It does not show a lack of skill or effort by Wilt, just that Russell had a better supporting cast


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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That's fine. Lebrons 1st year in Miami in big 4th quarter situations in the semi finals he passed the ball as soon as it touched his fingers. I saw what I saw, Im not mad that you fan out, thats cool its all opinion.....but Jordan never did that shit in big games in the 4th and Lebron will be lucky to have a single nother ring.


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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Below average?  The average person doesnt make it to the NBA. He was definitely above average.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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I understand.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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In size. He could shoot it over the backboard better than any kid Ive ever played with.


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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I watched those Finals and your memory is faulty. He passed the ball because he was forced to go left. What happened the next year? He made a point of driving left.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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My memory was faulty but you agree he passed it away. Dunno what kinda magical sentence that was


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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He was above average in basketball skill or he would have never been drafted. There are a ton of big guys that have never had a sniff at the NBA level due to lack of skills.


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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That correct. He passed it because he couldnt shoot going left or it was the correct play. Nothing magic about my sentence. Just a factual observation. As I pointed out he came back next year with that deficiency corrected and won a ring


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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Shaq literally cleared the center with his shoulders and dunked almost every play at LSU...shot from 5 feet out like he was partially retarded, and didnt develop any actual skills until Akeem mentored him in the off season. 

If shaq was 6 foot 4 instead of 7 feet, he would have not made Division 3 in college


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## Eric Arthur Blair (Jun 23, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Rings don’t show individual dominance, they show team dominance
> 
> There was never a more dominant player than Wilt Chamberlain, but Bill Russell had more rings
> 
> It does not show a lack of skill or effort by Wilt, just that Russell had a better supporting cast


Agreed and I have to say if I was to pick a best athlete from one of the team sports Americans focus in on to the exclusion of everything else it would probably be Wilt Chamberlain. 
An amazing combination of size, strength and agility.


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## Rocko (Jun 23, 2019)

Some of the unbelievable physical freaks in team sports that I can think of off the top on my head: Lawrence Taylor, Bo Jackson, junior Seau Deon Sanders, Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Zion Williamson (yes I know he’s only 19 and hasn’t accomplished much, but I’m just looking at him in terms of raw athleticism). No specific order


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## rightwinger (Jun 23, 2019)

Michael Jordan struggled at the beginning of his career
Not in scoring but in winning championships

BIrd and Magic were the dominant players on dominant teams
Wasn’t till Pippin and the rest of the key pieces arrived that Jordan became the GOAT


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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LSU isnt the NBA.  You cant go to the NBA just beause youre big. If Jordan was 6 ft instead of being 6'6" he wouldn't have played college ball.


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## Rocko (Jun 23, 2019)

Eric Arthur Blair said:


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Arnold Schwarzenegger said Wilt was up there with the strongest men he’s ever seen.


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## Rocko (Jun 23, 2019)

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Ludicrous statement. Jordan would have been a hall of fame player at 6 feet.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

It woulda been awesome to see Lebron play in the tougher era...where PGs were still PGs and not 6 foot 9 each, where there were truly ferocious and talented big men in the middle...like Akeem, like Ewing, David Robinson, Alonzo..

and there were more than 2 types of player...3point bombers or big forwards...but instead the game had a lot more built shouldered men like Malone, Pippen, all the bruisers from the Knicks....ahh the golden era


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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Shaq literally went just because he was big.

So did Bol and a whole host of other giants.


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Michael Jordan struggled at the beginning of his career
> Not in scoring but in winning championships
> 
> BIrd and Magic were the dominant players on dominant teams
> Wasn’t till Pippin and the rest of the key pieces arrived that Jordan became the GOAT


I think this is the root of this fallacy about Lebron. Lebron doesnt have a score first mentality.  He has a get the best bucket mentality. Jordan was not a complete player when he first came into the league, He was a shot maker. Lebron was more of a facilitator that could be a scorer. People are judging Lebron because he doesnt play the game like MJ which is silly. You need a team to win. Never saw MJ step on the court by himself and win anything.


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## Rocko (Jun 23, 2019)

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Shaq had good footwork, but I agree, the key to him being a dominant player was his combination of size, speed, and strength


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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He didnt get his nice footwork until Akeem mentored him. Thats from Shaqs mouth, too


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## Rocko (Jun 23, 2019)

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You never saw MJ leave to form a super team either


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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Thats silly. Shaq was a skilled big man. Thats why he went to the NBA,

Bol also had skills. It wasnt just his height.  Most people that tall or big are uncoordinated lumps of flesh.


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## rightwinger (Jun 23, 2019)

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He did leave to play baseball though


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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He didnt have to leave. They formed a super team around him. Cavs on the other hand refused to get Lebron some help.


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## rightwinger (Jun 23, 2019)

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They never played on the same team
When did Akeem mentor him?


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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That's more heart factor as well. 

They say a lot of these team this and that....but to pretend guys dont single handedly take over games....in the #1 team sport where guys ACTUALLY single handedly take over games?? Is bananas, and Jordan always and gladly put it on his shoulders deep in the playoffs and deep in the 4th...Lebron came up short too many times....and with THOSE abilities and size...I give him no excuse...let alone his hand in designing his teams and support.


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## Rocko (Jun 23, 2019)

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Bol didn’t have any skills lol. That was an era where their were a lot of stiffs. Bol was one of them. Now his son is very skilled, but there are injury concerns with him.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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In the off season and the Olympics. Shaq talks about it all the time.


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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Foot work isnt the only skill Shaq had. He could pass and surprisingly he could dribble.


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## Rocko (Jun 23, 2019)

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Refused to get him some help? It’s not that easy to just put together a championship squad. They did their best and failed.


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

Rocko said:


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Bol was a 3 point shooter and good passer.  Bol was far from a stiff.  His sons is going to have a hard time because he is built just like his father and that wont work in todays NBA.


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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So they failed. The point was that since they failed there was nothing wrong with Lebron leaving for a team that didnt fail.


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## Rocko (Jun 23, 2019)

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One could look at it that way. Another way to look at it was he took the easy way out


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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He could dribble in the basic sense of the word, the very basic, and thats....again...the point.

My entire area's 1st string point guards that will mostly never see college "can dribble."

Youre just impressed because hes big, so its "surprising." Thats the entire point.

My 4year old son can shoot free throws on the fisher price better than shaq could...and pound for pound(lol) the hoop is the same height and distance


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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Whats easy about uprooting your family and moving?  I for one am glad he left. He changed the landscape by doing so. Why stay somewhere that isnt working for your goals.  Thats like saying its the easy way out if you leave your employer and go to a competitor because they refuse to put you in the position you aspire to have. Its stupid. No reason to stay stuck in a position when you can go somewhere else and obtain your goals.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

I'll always remember watching Shaq progress, and it was pretty cool when he (finally) developed the nice little turn around, and some baseline moves. He was clunky/goofy, and lacked skill and thats as compared to the basic half-decent high school player...

And he made his living in the most prominant league in the world. Because SIZE. Monstrousity. But IM fucking better than Shaq, lb for lb skill wise...so are most people!


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## Rocko (Jun 23, 2019)

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Poor guy had to move from Cleveland to Miami. I feel sorry for him and have a new respect for him.


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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Nope. He could have played PG in high school but they pushed Shaq to use his size.  It would have been silly to not use his size but he had to be prodded into it.


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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I doubt he even knows you much less cares about your respect.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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Shaq def. could not play PG lol wtf. He could barely square up to shoot because his hand was too big for the ball and it made it uncoordinated.


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## Rocko (Jun 23, 2019)

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He knows me. I dunked on him and he erased footage of it. Just like he did when Jordan Crawford dunked on him. Lebron is a bitch.


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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Thats not what his high school teammates say. A PG's job is not to shoot. Thats the 2, 3, 5 job. A PGs job is to break down the defense and distribute.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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Im sitting here mulling over all the 80s and 90s players that I saw give it all their guts and refuse to lose...and I dont think Im putting Lebron in my top ten for will to win when factored with physical ability to do so. 

Id probably even take Reggie Miller in his prime in a pinch over Lebron if something like my life were on the line. Reggie detested losing more than most humans Ive seen...too bad Mike was in the way so much, though


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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I dont need testimony - Ive seen Shaqs coordination and Id rate him: "goofy," on a scale of skilled to amputee.


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## Rocko (Jun 23, 2019)

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Shaq doesn’t even understand the game. He’s clearly the dumbest one of the TNT commentators. Which is saying a lot.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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He could barely hold the damn ball and someone thinks he could run point. 

lol

I dont dismiss his dominance though, but thats cuz he was a monster size wise. If he had the skills of an average all area high schooler....WITH that size...he woulda been Wilt


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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Yet they lost all the same.  You can refuse to lose all day long but it doesnt mean youre going to win. Ask Stockton and Malone. Ask Reggie, Ask Barkely.  Ask A.I. The history of the NBA is filled with players that refused to lose but did all the same.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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Ask everyone who faced prime Jordan. I know the story...and Lebron is a great athlete with a mediocre will.


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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Yeah you just disqualified yourself from serious consideration with that statement.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jun 23, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> Figure this would be fun to get opinions.   Each has it's own merit.   Be it the impact/popularity of the sport, the level above others they are, the team vs. solo sport debate, etc...
> 
> Who do you think is the Greatest Athlete Ever?
> 
> ...




yeah I was going to say Ali but Jim Brown for sure would be right up there.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jun 23, 2019)

JoeMoma said:


> Bruce Jenner when he was a he and not a she or it.




yeah when IT actually had hairy armpits coming from the body


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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Prime Jordan only existed with Scottie Pippen. I cant give MJ all the credit when he had another HOFer guarding the best player on the other team and directing the offense so MJ could rest.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jun 23, 2019)

DGS49 said:


> But Serena could be considered the most dominant player in the history of tennis, regardless of gender.  Indeed, the only time she loses is when she has the occasional mental lapse or when she is injured.  Otherwise, it's lights out for her opponent, and it has been thus for nearly 20 years.  What other athlete can say the same?



thats another example of a HE pretending to be a she only difference is HE covers it up and is not open about it.LOL

SHE won MAN of the year award.comedy gold.

Serena Williams ‘Man of the Year’ GQ cover sparks controversy for an odd reason


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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Boston and Detroit faced prime Jordan and beat him even when he refused to loose.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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I love Scottie Pippen and don't discount his efforts, and still was intuitive enough to see that MJ is the greatest when it came to will to win in the Finals. He had the skill and put it to work with a 100% NBA Finals success rate, series wise. 

That's some shit LeBron was/is incapable of...and he can't erase that history now it's too late.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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Lose*

Those weren't his prime years...not stat wise(except ppg), and not skill wise.


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## rightwinger (Jun 23, 2019)

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Couldn’t make a free throw if his life depended on it


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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We arent talking will to win even if what you say is true. You cant measure someones will simply by looking at them. You measure that by being there to see every minute of work they put into becoming the best.  We are talking about who is the greatest athlete. Lebron is by far MJ's superior when it comes to being an athlete.


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## rightwinger (Jun 23, 2019)

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Nonsense 

LeBron has carried teams his entire career
Just came up against some superior western conference teams


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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True. Never could figure out what was the issue with that. I thought it was his hands being too big but Kwahis hands look about the same size.


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## Votto (Jun 23, 2019)

Who is the greatest athlete?

That is not even debatable.


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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Bingo. Never saw a guy accomplish so much with so little help.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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No, you engaged me and my remarks on the topic at the time you engaged me were about the will to win. 

Lebron has the best talent WITH size proportions we've ever seen and with the level of control he's had over choosing teammates he's lost more chips than he's won. 

This game is all about x-factors, and I've seen a fully pussified Lebron when it matter most and his legacy was having all kinds of speculation at the time and he knew it and he admitted he felt the pressure. 

And lost. 

And so for that, he's out of GOAT contention on my list because his talent/size proportions didn't make up for the lack of will power.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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Lebron's deep playoff appearances early in his career was when the East Coast was the worst I've ever seen in my lifetime of 37 years.


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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No I just pointed out that the topic isnt about will to win. Its about greatest athlete. If youre talking will to win then you have no way of measuring that unless youre there to document the work that person puts in to be the best and the drive they display to make it so. I can have the will to pick up a one ton rock and work out constantly trying to achieve that goal. Are you saying that me never being able to pick up a rock that weighs one ton means I lack the will?


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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Thats because the west was so deep. Not Lebrons fault. The point was that Lebrons teams beat better teams when he made those deep runs.  Ask the Celtics


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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No, I'm saying that in the NBA - the player that's considered having the most dominant size and talent combo fails to dominate, often, when it's time for the Chip to fall at the end of the season.

That's literally all I'm saying - and any and everyone is free to disagree with me and I'm comfy about it. I've seen him give up with my own two...you require him to say "I give up" verbatim to intuit that he gave up. We have very different standards in that regard. It''s quite alright, by me.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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The Celtics were over the hill - the East was trash and the West was "the NBA."


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## Rocko (Jun 23, 2019)

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Hands too big is the dumbest excuse. Look at Jordan. He hand enormous hands. Shaq never practiced. That’s why he never could hit his free throws


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

I'd love to be able to watch the league in hi-def, full color back when Wilt played. 

I also wish we could somehow stick players into different eras and test their meddle...see if they fared much differently. That'd be awesome.


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

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Thats fine. I am saying I disagree. I've only seen one time when Lebron failed to dominate and that was because of a deficiency in his game that Dallas exploited which is not his lack of will.  As I pointed out the next year Lebron corrected that deficiency and won a ring. Thats some serious evidence of a will to win. Lebron went back and looked at film. Lebron spotted the shortcoming, worked on it, and turned it into a strength.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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I think it was because he's uncoordinated.

When my friends and I used to lower the hoops in middle school and all play center, for fun games with dunking and mini-ball and crap, - literally all of our post moves were more athletic/more finesse than Shaq's.

He's just a paint clearing fucking beast. But hey, he was born with it. It's his.


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

Rocko said:


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You sound like an idiot. Shaq practiced free throws all the time. He admitted it was the pressure.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

Asclepias said:


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Yeah, he turned it into a 1-peat after making what was considered a stacked team at the time.

Funny thing about the nba now, too...is that that Miami team isn't so grossly stacked anymore by our new standard


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

G.T. said:


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Like we pointed out there are many players that had the will but dont even have a 1 peat.

Whats even funnier is everyone acting as if that was the first time a team was stacked.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

If a new era of big men came about, it might make me follow the League again. 

Big Men were never my favorite part of the game, but looking back - the paradigm they created made the game more fun to watch...the game was more diverse. 

Maybe if some new SPEED guy, not forward/size guy, came about that was amazing to watch like when Allen Iverson was new...it could draw me back in.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

Asclepias said:


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That's my entire point. 

The other guys who "only 1 peated" or even less...weren't blessed with the greatest size/talent combo like Lebron was...and because of what I personally consider his lack of balls - he's right where they are, but with great stats.


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

G.T. said:


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But Lebron isnt right were they are. Hes won multiple championships and with different teams while the players we pointed out have none.


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

G.T. said:


> If a new era of big men came about, it might make me follow the League again.
> 
> Big Men were never my favorite part of the game, but looking back - the paradigm they created made the game more fun to watch...the game was more diverse.
> 
> Maybe if some new SPEED guy, not forward/size guy, came about that was amazing to watch like when Allen Iverson was new...it could draw me back in.


The game always evolves. Thats what makes it great to watch. The next thing is going to be 7 footers playing on the wing. Wait thats already happening!


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

Asclepias said:


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He's been swept twice in the Finals, and his Championship completion record is what's being called (by me) into question. 3 and 6 - and I can see why he's made it 9 times because the East has been literally dog-shit.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

Asclepias said:


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It's happening but it's still anomalous when it does. I'll be interested in next year's showing because I liked the draft this time around.


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

G.T. said:


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Zion may single handedly swing the pendulum back to big guys.  Right now I dont anyone slowing him down unless they have some weight on them.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

Here's a stat that interests me by fivethirtyeight.com

In terms of odds, LeBron was expected to win 2.8 of his 9 Finals. 

He won 3. About even with expectation. 

Jordan was expected to win 4.1 - and won 6. Outta 6. 

They did this stat for a number of other greats, too...pretty interesting stat. Not all that meaningful, but interesting. 

Jordan/Pippen defied their odds by the highest margin on the list...winning 1.9 more rings than statistically expected.


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## Asclepias (Jun 23, 2019)

G.T. said:


> Here's a stat that interests me by fivethirtyeight.com
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> In terms of odds, LeBron was expected to win 2.8 of his 9 Finals.
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Jordan and Pippen are probably the greatest duo the NBA has ever seen on both ends of the court. I'm not surprised at all with that stat.


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

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I closed the page now, but Magic had like 4 expected and 5 wins...Kareem, too...

And Steph Curry won 0.2 less than (statistically) expected. But the rings dont come in fractions, lol - they just had to use funky division because the odds worked out that way


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## G.T. (Jun 23, 2019)

Now that I'm exhausted of being a Lebron Hater - can we talk about getting steroids back into baseball 

who didnt secretly love that mcgwire / sosa stuff at the time, come on!


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## SandSquid (Jun 24, 2019)

G.T. said:


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G.T. said:


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Shaq had insane coordination for a guy his size.   Remember those magic years, when he'd blow by Robinson and take guys off the dribble.  When he'd go coast to coast and outrun guards on the floor.


a lot of people forget how athletic young shaq was.


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## SandSquid (Jun 24, 2019)

G.T. said:


> Now that I'm exhausted of being a Lebron Hater - can we talk about getting steroids back into baseball
> 
> who didnt secretly love that mcgwire / sosa stuff at the time, come on!



hahaha.  I am not a big baseball fan.   I grew up around Miami, and we had the Marlins start up.   Started following them a bit even though it was slower than I liked, won a championship, then EVERYONE I liked watching was gone.   So I stopped watching till I moved to Colorado.   As a part time fan, the Blake Street Bombers winning 13-10 was a blast.   Then came humidors and banning steroids.   And yes I was watching for Sosa and McGwire on Sportscenter.


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## rightwinger (Jun 24, 2019)

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Chamberlain could make free throws either. Resorted to a Rick Barry style


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## rightwinger (Jun 24, 2019)

G.T. said:


> Here's a stat that interests me by fivethirtyeight.com
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> In terms of odds, LeBron was expected to win 2.8 of his 9 Finals.
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No one had such a stat

The BULLS were expected to win
The HEAT were expected to win


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## G.T. (Jun 24, 2019)

SandSquid said:


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ken griffey jr!


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## G.T. (Jun 24, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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What the fuck are you talking about no one had such a stat?

Its the vegas odds at the beginning of a finals series. Literally everyone has such a stat, and 538 is a reputable sports site.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Jun 24, 2019)

Bo Jackson


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## rightwinger (Jun 24, 2019)

G.T. said:


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Show me Vegas odds on a player winning the championship instead of a team


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## G.T. (Jun 24, 2019)

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The stat WAS for the team you goof


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## rightwinger (Jun 24, 2019)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Bo Jackson


Amazing athlete in two sports


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## rightwinger (Jun 24, 2019)

G.T. said:


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So you see my point


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## G.T. (Jun 24, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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No, your point was wrong...because my point was never that anyone was expected to win alone, it was merely sharing a stat of players' expected rings BASED ON THEIR TEAMS' SERIES ODDS, vs. how many rings they WON.

You snivveled for no apparent reason, is what happened.

Its a messageboard, youre forgiven


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## AzogtheDefiler (Jun 24, 2019)

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And Track....set multiple records


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## rightwinger (Jun 24, 2019)




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## SandSquid (Jun 24, 2019)

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Yup they won 2 finals.  And that stacked team sure didn't play like a stacked team.  Bosh was what?  13ppg -7rpg  in the finals after that Dallas series?  Basically a shell of Pascal Siakam this past year.    Who's saying "man Toronto is stacked with Pascal".  Wade was 17-4-4 an the only guy to show up with any consistency.  

That Spurs series once down 3-2, sure Ray Allen hits a HUGE 3.  But he was 3-12 shooting in that series in their two elimination games.  Bosh was 5-17 there.  In game 7, Bosh/Wade/Allen score 23 points on 11-30 shooting.   Lebron scores 32 on 12-23 shooting.  

The Spurs rematch, Lebron goes for 31-10-5 on 10-21 shooting and just 1 turnover in the elimination game.  Going against Kawhi, one of the best wing defenders in the game.  Bosh/Wade/Allen go for 29-15-5 with 7 turnovers in that game on 11-34 shooting.  

In elimination games that "stacked' teams big 3 outside of Lebron each scored an avergage of 9.4 points per game in the finals after Dallas.  Lebron outscored them on his own.  To put that in perspective, when people talk about how ruined the Warriors were this post-season.  Curry got 63 points from his next big 3 without Durant in game 7 (Iggy, Klay, Green).  

In Lebron's "Big 3 era" with Cleveland and Miami, his teams are 13-39 when he doesn't play.    On pace for a 20 win season, which would have been dead in the league 2 of the past 3 years.  

So inside track for the #1 pick in the draft without him playing.   With him, 3 championships in 8 years.   That's impressive.


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## rightwinger (Jun 24, 2019)

rightwinger said:


>




https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...le-idea/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c0f9512cbcb2

Jim Brown,the Cleveland Browns Hall of Fame running back, a legendarily tough man, decided to try his hand at the sport after retiring from football following the 1965 season, but his target wasn’t just any boxer. It was The Greatest, his friend Muhammad Ali. Brown, as Chris Mannix told the story in Sports Illustrated in 2012, thought a bout would generate a massive payday and approached Arum, the long-time promoter he had introduced to Ali. Brown was in the process of becoming an actor, but Arum, out of gratitude, thought he should approach with Brown’s wish.

“So I went to talk to Ali,” Arum told Mannix. “He says, ‘Jim wants to do what? Bring him here.’ So I took him to Hyde Park in London, where Ali used to run. Ali said, ‘Jimmy, here’s what we’re going to do: You hit me as hard as you can.’

So Brown starts swinging and swinging, and he can’t hit him. He’s swinging wildly and not even coming close. This goes on for, like, 30 seconds. Then Ali hits him with this quick one-two to his face. Jimmy just stops and says, ‘Okay, I get the point.’ ”


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## Unkotare (Jun 24, 2019)

rightwinger said:


>



Greatest racist boxer of all time.


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## JoeMoma (Jun 24, 2019)




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## rightwinger (Jun 24, 2019)

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He was no racist
He loved white women


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## Unkotare (Jun 24, 2019)

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Yes he was, in just the manner the NOI indoctrinated him to be.


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## rightwinger (Jun 24, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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He couldn’t be racist...

Some of his best friends were white people
He even worked with white people


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## noonereal (Jun 24, 2019)

JoeMoma said:


> Bruce Jenner when he was a he and not a she or it.



No way in hell, unless you don't know what an athlete is.


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## 22lcidw (Jun 24, 2019)

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Many black guys can't stand black women. They love white women.


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## Asclepias (Jun 24, 2019)

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Anyone that doesnt realize just how insane what Lebron does is not fluent in basketball. Practically the only person to come out of high school and somehow surpass the expectations.  He was billed as the next great thing and he delivered. You knew he was something special the first game he played in the NBA.


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## Asclepias (Jun 24, 2019)

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To be truthful most Black guys love how easy white women are. Then they go marry a Black woman when they are done playing around.


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## 22lcidw (Jun 28, 2019)

Luca Brasi was the best athlete until his untimely death in the Godfather. He won enforcer/leg breaker of the year multiple times.


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## rightwinger (Jun 28, 2019)

Asclepias said:


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He was scoring 100 points a game in HS


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## rightwinger (Jun 28, 2019)

22lcidw said:


> Luca Brasi was the best athlete until his untimely death in the Godfather. He won enforcer/leg breaker of the year multiple times.



He ended up sleeping with the fishes


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## Asclepias (Jun 28, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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I never knew Lebron scored 100 points a game in high school. He passed alot when I saw him.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 28, 2019)

BuckToothMoron said:


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  How the fuk didnt he make that climb with balls that weighed four hundred lbs?


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## 22lcidw (Jun 28, 2019)

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I really don't care. I am older now and to many have baggage in which an economic downturn will give them their comuppance. And the 80% single parent issue in the black areas kind of negates your marriage statement.


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## 22lcidw (Jun 28, 2019)

Asclepias said:


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LeBron is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. If he gave up 95% ofit to the hood areas he could help to upgrade them hugely with other Progs who only talk. Now if Cable TV gives us the option to get rid of channels that we do not want we would start to see the reality of being a sucker to individuals like him come to a crossroads. Imagine the money that Hollywood can give up to the poverty areas! Straight to them and no trickle down government. The NBA is a 4 team league. One enters every a few years as Capital City as one leaves. The rest of the teams are like the Districts in the Hunger Games.


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## Asclepias (Jun 29, 2019)

22lcidw said:


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One can only wonder how ignorant you are when this information is freely available on the very medium you are using to access this site.

Here’s why LeBron James might be the most generous NBA star today


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## Asclepias (Jun 29, 2019)

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Obviously you care. You made a claim. A false claim I may add regarding Black men hating Black women. We didnt make up the term "the darker the berry the sweeter the juice" for nothing.


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## Unkotare (Jun 29, 2019)

Is this the race relations forum now?


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