# WOW 9/11 again.



## Indofred (Jul 22, 2012)

Frankly, while there are many conspiracy theories about 9/11, I just can't see enough evidence to be sure either way.
I've heard loads of pro Muslims groups claim the attacks were mossad.
However, I've always assumed that was political shit and not worth listening to.
This one is different because of who is saying it.



> *Alan Sabrosky*
> Alan Sabrosky (Ph.D., University of Michigan), is a ten-year US Marine Corps veteran and a graduate of the US Army War College. also a writer and consultant specializing in national and international security affairs. In December 1988, he received the Superior Civilian Service Award after more than five years of service at the U.S. Army War College as Director of Studies, Strategic Studies Institute, and holder of the General of the Army Douglas MacArthur Chair of Research.
> He is listed in WHO'S WHO IN THE EAST (23rd ed.). A Marine Corps Vietnam veteran and a 1986 graduate of the U.S. Army War College, Dr. Sabrosky's teaching and research appointments have included the United States Military Academy, the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), Middlebury College and Catholic University; while in government service, he held concurrent adjunct professorships at Georgetown University and the Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS).
> Dr. Sabrosky has lectured widely on defense and foreign affairs in the United States and abroad.



It's worth 10 minutes of your time.


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## SayMyName (Jul 22, 2012)

I would enjoy reading the link to what you are professing was stated, if possible.


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## Indofred (Jul 22, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alMC9AoF9I8&feature=related]U.S. Military Knows Israel did 9/11 - YouTube[/ame]

Sorry. I was very tired when I looked at this.


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## Hollie (Jul 22, 2012)

Indofred said:


> Frankly, while there are many conspiracy theories about 9/11, I just can't see enough evidence to be sure either way.
> I've heard loads of pro Muslims groups claim the attacks were mossad.
> However, I've always assumed that was political shit and not worth listening to.
> This one is different because of who is saying it.
> ...


Is it time for yet another 9-11 / Mossad conspiracy theory?

Has it been 24 hours already?


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## Indofred (Jul 22, 2012)

Hollie said:


> Indofred said:
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> > Frankly, while there are many conspiracy theories about 9/11, I just can't see enough evidence to be sure either way.
> ...



I think I was pretty clear in my statement regarding the lack of credibility of most theories.
Take a look at who this guy is.
He's not just some bloke with a simple political agenda and a chip on his shoulder.

When someone of this nature speaks, you have to consider his views as potential truth.
Of course, as with all opinions, it has to be researched and considered against all other available evidence, not blindly accepted.


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## daveman (Jul 22, 2012)

Indofred said:


> When someone of this nature speaks, you have to consider his views as potential truth.


No you don't.  If he'd said the moon was made of cheese, would you consider it as potential truth?

Same thing.


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## Toro (Jul 22, 2012)

Indofred said:


> It's worth 10 minutes of your time.



No its not.


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## Rat in the Hat (Jul 23, 2012)

Indofred said:


> Frankly, while there are many conspiracy theories about 9/11, I just can't see enough evidence to be sure either way.
> I've heard loads of pro Muslims groups claim the attacks were mossad.
> However, I've always assumed that was political shit and not worth listening to.
> This one is different because of who is saying it.
> ...



It took me about 15 seconds to read this.

What am I supposed to do with the other 9:45 minutes?


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## eots (Jul 23, 2012)

Rat in the Hat said:


> Indofred said:
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> > Frankly, while there are many conspiracy theories about 9/11, I just can't see enough evidence to be sure either way.
> ...



*watch this*

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWpWc_suPWo]Israel spies on the USA part 1 - YouTube[/ame]


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## Rat in the Hat (Jul 23, 2012)

eots said:


> Rat in the Hat said:
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OK. But I still want to know what the OP says I should do with that time.


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## Indofred (Jul 23, 2012)

Rat in the Hat said:


> eots said:
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Watch that.


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## Indofred (Jul 23, 2012)

daveman said:


> Indofred said:
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> > When someone of this nature speaks, you have to consider his views as potential truth.
> ...



Ah, you dislike something so you make fun of it rather than explore the possibility of truth.

I understand theTaliban are anti education; what makes your attitude to investigation and learning better than theirs?

Every idea from a credible source deserves investigation and this guy is such a source.
It may well be total rubbish but his qualifications and background suggest it's worth a look to see if it holds water.


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## Mr. Jones (Jul 23, 2012)

daveman said:


> Indofred said:
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> > When someone of this nature speaks, you have to consider his views as potential truth.
> ...


 Hmm...Let's see, what are the chances the moon is really made of cheese...as opposed to Israel and the Mossad being involved in the 9-11 attacks...*All things* considered....I think it more likely the latter.
To compare the 2 shows your level of ignorance.


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## slackjawed (Jul 23, 2012)

the moon made of green cheese? If someone said blue cheese I would go along with it. Maybe there is a pile of hotwings and celery on the moon, but on the dark side so we can't see. 
That makes a lot more sense, and would be much tastier, than the pig vomit spewed by the treasonous twoofers we have here.....just sayin'


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## Mr. Jones (Jul 23, 2012)

slackjawed said:


> the moon made of green cheese? If someone said blue cheese I would go along with it. Maybe there is a pile of hotwings and celery on the moon, but on the dark side so we can't see.
> That makes a lot more sense, and would be much tastier, than the pig vomit spewed by the treasonous twoofers we have here.....just sayin'


 Treason is keeping quiet about it and not asking questions about the treasonous OCT that doesn't add up.
Shut up, order yourself some wings with blue cheese and watch a Batman movie, you mindless fucking troll.


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## SFC Ollie (Jul 23, 2012)

Gee, isn't there a video out there somewhere that shows some of the hijackers with UBL? So they were double agents too?  Damn those guys were good..........


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## slackjawed (Jul 23, 2012)

Mr. Jones said:


> slackjawed said:
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> > the moon made of green cheese? If someone said blue cheese I would go along with it. Maybe there is a pile of hotwings and celery on the moon, but on the dark side so we can't see.
> ...



mindless is hating your country so much you believe anything bad about it, as well as spread the dumbass stories with NO evidence to back it up. 

hint, dreams are not evidence.

so you think telling people to shut up is a way to win your argument?
Talk about a mindless troll, you take the cake. 
Now go change your diaper and wait for the nice lady to come give you your mediceine, it will help you relax. you batshit crazy treasonous bastard troll


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## Rat in the Hat (Jul 23, 2012)

Mr. Jones said:


> slackjawed said:
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> > the moon made of green cheese? If someone said blue cheese I would go along with it. Maybe there is a pile of hotwings and celery on the moon, but on the dark side so we can't see.
> ...


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## GuyNTexas (Jul 23, 2012)

Indofred said:


> Hollie said:
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While there is irrefutable evidence of Israeli prior knowledge of the event, there are major flaws in the theory that Israel could have conducted the operation alone.  I don't buy that proposition at all, as common sense would demand that the War Games being conducted by the Defense Department on the morning of 911 could not have been initiated by Israel, and those operations have to be considered as providing a support role in the main event.  The idea that "Israel did it"  doesn't fit the larger picture, of which 911 was only the latest operation in a string of events which allowed each successively larger operation to be implemented.

We've become a nation of sleep walkers who suffer a severe impairment in overall awareness and memory, and in our collective lack of critical analysis skills.   The 1993 WTC bombing is a classic example of this.   Just how many remember, or were ever actually aware of the FBI's involvement in that first attack?   I'm sure, at this moment, there are those who will immediately think ... what?  WTF is this GuyNTexas blabbering about?  Aren't you?  Sure you are.   It's OK ... this is amazingly common.   Nevertheless, the FBI's involvement in the 1993 bombing of the WTC is undeniable, because the FBI itself has admitted to it.  And I don't think one can have a greater level of evidence than a damned confession.   Of course, that confession came in the form of admitting that the bombing was a covert sting operation that went south ... yet the details clearly indicate that it was far more sinister in nature, given the fact that the FBI provided the REAL explosives used in that bombing to their informant-asset, Emad Salem who was placed on the inside, and was intimately familiar/involved in all aspects of the planning and implementation conducted by this group of "Muslim Terrorists".   That was the big tip off to Salem, as he argued with his FBI handler about the wisdom of providing real explosives, rather than inert material.  That's when Salem began recording his conversations with his FBI handler for his own protection, realizing that they may indeed be planning to use him as a "patsy".  And that is the only thing that saved his rear end when this information was presented in Federal Court, forcing the FBI to own up to their participation in this "sting operation".  One would think that such a revelation would make the headlines of every newspaper and television news across the nation ... but it was treated as non-news ... finding little interest, save of a couple of paragraphs on page 20 of the New York Times, and then quickly finding obscurity thereafter.

Then we have the Oklahoma City Bombing in which a widespread conspiracy involving the FBI, ATF and the national media is beyond question ... though this was kept totally out of the public's perception due to that national media complicity.  Within 24 hours of the OKC bombing, the entire story was rewritten, and the truthful details scrubbed from all national news reporting, save for one local OKC news channel who insisted on continuing to highlight the fact that there were other explosive devices found inside the building undetonated, as was clearly reported by authorities at the site that day.   That news channel was subsequently bought by the New York Times media conglomerate, and it's executive staff fired, ceasing that rogue group of truth tellers.

I remember watching the live news coverage that morning, and the reports of TWO additional, undetonated  explosive devices found inside the building.  Yet, the very next day, the story was changed to the "ANFO" bomb in the Ryder truck parked outside as being the only explosive responsible for all of the death and destruction, including 19 children in the building's daycare center, and some 150 adults.   All mention of explosives inside the building was very quickly exorcised from the national news coverage, and the new story became the new truth.   How is it that public can be so easily duped by this rather obvious demonstration of fraud?

So, it's no wonder why the many other details of that crime were successfully covered up, such as the torture/murder of OKC Police Officer Yeakey, who was first on the scene and rescued the first survivors.   Officer Yeakey had seen troubling things, and was in the process of collecting evidence in the days after the attack.  He was the subject of FBI surveillance in the following days ... known to him and his family.  On the day of his death, he had arranged to meet a friend for dinner after he finished moving a bunch of files related to his investigation to a storage facility for safe keeping.  He told his friend that he just had to shake the FEDS following him.   He never made it.   His body was found ... showing he had not only been murdered, but brutally tortured, with severe bruising on the bottoms of his feet (a common means of torture to inflict pain), bruises and lacerations all over his body ... throat slit, and a gunshot wound to his temple with no gunpowder residue (meaning it couldn't have been self inflicted).  Nevertheless, the coroner listed his death as a suicide.

The thumb suckers who will deny .. challenge .. or try to explain away these and many other damning details showing OKC as an inside job, helped ensure 911 would follow, and those that are doing the same thing regarding 911 will be complicit in the next "terror" event.  Anyone who asks the questions how and why did 911 happen, there's your answer.   As long as the public insists on remaining in an intellectual coma, and chooses to continue sucking their thumbs .... the perpetrators of these crimes are going to continue committing them, and if the pattern remains consistent, the next one will be larger and more deadly than the last.

Now, I don't know if this man really believes his story about "Israel did it", or whether this is just another disinfo tactic to further muddy the waters.   What people have to understand is that people even in high positions of authority and level of knowledge are as easily duped as the general public.   It's called compartmentalization, and the "need to know".  Even people with identical levels of security clearance are not privy to the same information, based on that subjective "need to know" process.  In fact, Law Enforcement types are particularly vulnerable to deception, because they are often given "classified intelligence information" not available to the public, which reasons certain activities that might otherwise be questioned as dubious.   For example, LE might be briefed on the high alert probability of a suspected terrorist event that is deemed "immanent" , including information that sets the stage with suspected sources of that threat like "al qaeda", and the inside informants providing that intelligence.  Therefore, if and when those "informants" are caught participating, they already have their cover story established, and the LE officials previously "briefed" see nothing untowards, as they were already told about that activity ahead of time.

These types of covert operations always employ a means for "plausible deniability", often using some form of cover story, be it a "sting operation" or a "training exercise".    This was certainly true of the 7-7 London subway bombing, as it was admitted afterward that the group "Visor Associates" were conducting a terror response exercise at the exact same time and places for which the "real" attacks took place.   This was also true on 911 as well .... both in the form of DOD-Pentagon live training exercises involving hijacked aircraft, and also the alleged "Tripod" training exercise being conducted in New York City which had FEMA officials arriving in NYC the night of September 10. 

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to detect something out of the ordinary going on here ... but it does take a supreme level of naiveté  to think it all just an endless set of coincidences.


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## SFC Ollie (Jul 23, 2012)

I'm sorry, but what was it that ties OKC and 911 together again?


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## GuyNTexas (Jul 23, 2012)

SFC Ollie said:


> I'm sorry, but what was it that ties OKC and 911 together again?



FBI .... 1993 WTC Bombing - explosives provided by the FBI, and proven in tape recorded conversations between FBI - John Anticev and the informant Emad Salem.

FBI .... engaged in multiple acts of criminal conduct (including their possible involvement in the murder of OKC Police Officer Yeakey), among many other details including the coercion and intimidation of Grand Jury members.

FBI ... involvement in derailing counter-terror investigations being conducted in the months prior to 911, including halting investigations of some of the alleged terrorists, much to the outrage of honest FBI agents involved in those investigations.

Just for starters ...


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## Toro (Jul 23, 2012)

Colonel Sanders was behind 9/11?


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## GuyNTexas (Jul 23, 2012)

Toro said:


> Colonel Sanders was behind 9/11?




Did it take all 12 points of your IQ, or only half, to come up with this brilliant response?


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## Rat in the Hat (Jul 23, 2012)

To the Twoofers, 9/11 is just a game.


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## GuyNTexas (Jul 23, 2012)

Rat in the Hat said:


> To the Twoofers, 9/11 is just a game.



And there you are, ready to contribute your 12 points.    Now, the two of you are exercising a collective IQ almost equaling a house plant.

Congratulations.   You two should be front runners in the next Darwin award.


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## Rat in the Hat (Jul 23, 2012)

What the Twoofers think really hit the building, but was covered up by CGI planes. 







Or was it covered up with an orb??


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## Mr. Jones (Jul 23, 2012)

SFC Ollie said:


> I'm sorry, but what was it that ties OKC and 911 together again?


Oh nothing Ollie, just similar false flag attacks that the rogue elements of the US government
may be behind it is all.

BTW glad you made it through your experience. You lived to fight another day.


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## Mr. Jones (Jul 23, 2012)

slackjawed said:


> Mr. Jones said:
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"The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them." -- George Orwell, writer 

You not disapproving what has happened to the nation you live in, by a government you trusted, and collaborating with them, to spread the lies and propaganda to the detriment of your fellow citizens is what is treasonous.


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## SFC Ollie (Jul 23, 2012)

As usual I see nothing here but opinion. Looking for truth on the net about any of this is a waste of time because once again the conspiracy sites have covered it all and you have to get through hundreds of pages to find anything that is based on the real facts.......


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## Indofred (Jul 23, 2012)

SFC Ollie said:


> As usual I see nothing here but opinion. Looking for truth on the net about any of this is a waste of time because once again the conspiracy sites have covered it all and you have to get through hundreds of pages to find anything that is based on the real facts.......



I agree.
The question has to be - Why would a man in his position hold such an opinion?

I can see why the dross end of the political scale claim the Israelis did it but he's another story.


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## Toro (Jul 23, 2012)

GuyNTexas said:


> Toro said:
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> > Colonel Sanders was behind 9/11?
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12 more points than you, NutterNTexas


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## daveman (Jul 23, 2012)

Indofred said:


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I understand the Taliban hate Jews, too.  What makes your attitude towards Jews any better than the Taliban's?


Indofred said:


> Every idea from a credible source deserves investigation and this guy is such a source.
> It may well be total rubbish but his qualifications and background suggest it's worth a look to see if it holds water.


You go ahead.  I'll continue to point and laugh at every retard who screeches "JOOOOOOS!!"


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## daveman (Jul 23, 2012)

Mr. Jones said:


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"JOOOOOS!!"

Retard.


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## Mr. Jones (Jul 23, 2012)

Indofred said:


> SFC Ollie said:
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> 
> > As usual I see nothing here but opinion. Looking for truth on the net about any of this is a waste of time because once again the conspiracy sites have covered it all and you have to get through hundreds of pages to find anything that is based on the real facts.......
> ...


 Flip the script and ask why the liars in that administration held the positions they did? Many of them were Israeli firster loyalists, with ties to the defense industry, so ask yourself who benefited the most from 9-11 or the subsequent wars that sprang up as justification because of 9-11. It isn't the whistle blowers or those in the truth movement that have benefitted, as many have lost careers, and even their lives because they dared to speak out.
People have a hard time facing the reality of the situation, especially being taught that the US of A was such a benevolent nation from cradle to grave, but after learning the truth about their country and the rigged system, and all of the lies they have told the American people, one could provide a very reasonable and viable opposite point of view.

 It's a reality that one must face especially if one wants America to regain any illusion of being such an honest, benevolent and just nation.
Don't count on the main stream media for exposing you to these things either, most are  complicit with the ones who spew the lies. Other sources are necessary for putting things together, and we have to rely on brave whistle blowers, and honest journalists who aren't paid or coerced by the very same people who are part of the corruption, to expose them and the events they orchestrate.

Why do you think they want to punish those who do?
The truth is that the government that is in control of the country you live in  provides an illusion of freedom of choice, and of being just, and no amount of denial will change that reality, and 9-11 was a coup de tat  with the extremists taking and holding power. It matters not what "party" is in charge, if left unchecked the American people will always lose, and they have made it their mission to prevent the people from realizing their crimes, by any manner possible, especially by passing "laws" to do so and using the "media" to tell you what they want you to think and believe.


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## daveman (Jul 23, 2012)

Mr. Jones said:


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Well then get off your slack ass and make a citizen's arrest, you sissy bedwetter.  C'mon.  _Bring it_.  If you don't, you're a party to the treason you condemn.

Want my address?


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## Mr. Jones (Jul 23, 2012)

daveman said:


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Your address, for what? So when somebody knocks the shit out of you I can be blamed? No thanks asshole, you can remain anonymous and continue to think you're a free American while your lawmakers lie to you like a 2 bit  braindead whore.

Your response and these others concerning the dire situation your nation is in are what passes for intellect. It's no wonder this country is in the shape its in, and why they feel they can getaway with the shit that they do, because of dumb fucking assholes like yourself.



Toro said:


> 12 more points than you, NutterNTexas





daveman said:


> "JOOOOOS!!"
> 
> Retard.





Toro said:


> Colonel Sanders was behind 9/11?





Rat in the Hat said:


> To the Twoofers, 9/11 is just a game.


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## daveman (Jul 23, 2012)

Mr. Jones said:


> daveman said:
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None of you will knock the shit out of me.  You're all worthless and weak.  You talk shit on the internet because talking shit in real life gets you stomped.  


Mr. Jones said:


> No thanks asshole, you can remain anonymous and continue to think you're a free American while your lawmakers lie to you like a 2 bit  braindead whore.


I'm a free American.  I'm not enslaved by hatred.

But only you can free yourself.  The problem is you seem to enjoy your hatred too much.


Mr. Jones said:


> Your response and these others concerning the dire situation your nation is in are what passes for intellect. It's no wonder this country is in the shape its in, and why they feel they can getaway with the shit that they do, because of dumb fucking assholes like yourself.


Your idea of "intellect" is interesting.

Say, you know, The Jew did not fuck up your life.  YOU did.  Man up and take responsibility for yourself.

Or else follow your leader:


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## Hollie (Jul 23, 2012)

Indofred said:


> Frankly, while there are many conspiracy theories about 9/11, I just can't see enough evidence to be sure either way.
> I've heard loads of pro Muslims groups claim the attacks were mossad.
> However, I've always assumed that was political shit and not worth listening to.
> This one is different because of who is saying it.
> ...




So might this. 

The last name was familiar as a contributor to the internet tabloid "prison planet" so I did some digging. 

Adam Holland: Alan Sabrosky: "Large majority of U.S. Jews are traitors" and Israel did 9/11 attacks. So who the heck is Alan Sabrosky?

Alan Sabrosky: "Large majority of U.S. Jews are traitors" and Israel did 9/11 attacks. So who the heck is Alan Sabrosky?

Sometimes, when an expert makes a serious charge but has no evidence to back it up, it's still newsworthy by dint of the provenance of the charge.  The reputation of a source can play a big role in determining when to believe unverifiable charges, or at least report them with a grain of salt.

Alan Sabrosky bills himself as the former Director of Studies at the U.S. Army War College.  He has made quite a name for himself in recent months by first declaring himself a military expert with high-level connections in the U.S. military hierarchy, then by outrageously claiming that Israel was responsible for 9/11 and that the U.S. military knows this and is concealing it.  While he offers no evidence for this, he claims that he should be trusted because of his expertise.  The truth of the matter -- with respect to both his background and his claims -- is quite different, of course.  Sabrosky has deliberately inflated his role in the military and has used that ruse to promote a hateful, fact-free conspiracy theory.  In fact, while he did work as an administrator at the U.S. Army War College, he was not, as his job title seems to indicate, the director or dean of the college.  Far from it.  According to the Press Office of the Army War College, in the mid-1980s, Sabrosky served as a civilian administrator at a research department of the college, supervising the publication of papers written within that department.  His job title was "Director of Studies" because he supervised publishing studies done within a department of the college.  He was a mid-level civilian manager at a military college, without access to the sort of highly classified material of the sort he now fraudulently claims to have.  Moreover, since his employment at that school was about 25 years ago, his employment there would provide him with no special insights with respect to 9/11.  How on earth could someone who worked on the level of a college librarian in the 1980s be privy to top secret information revealing a vast hidden conspiracy?  And how on earth could he be the only person to know about it or think it worth revealing?


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## daveman (Jul 23, 2012)

Imagine that -- an irrational Jew-hater lying.

So, Fred, still think this guy's bullshit is worth serious consideration?

Careful, now -- your answer may reveal volumes about you.


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## Toro (Jul 23, 2012)

Hollie said:


> Indofred said:
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> > Frankly, while there are many conspiracy theories about 9/11, I just can't see enough evidence to be sure either way.
> ...



Busted!

Next.


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## Indofred (Jul 24, 2012)

daveman said:


> Indofred said:
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I'll challenge you.
Find any post of mine where I express hatred towards Jews or Israelis in general, rather than their government and I'll sign out of the forum, never to return.

If you can't find such a post, you apologise, sign out and never return.
Do we have a deal or are you a liar and a coward?


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## Indofred (Jul 24, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6Reib6xUMQ]Dr. Alan Sabrosky: Israel behind 9/11, Part II - YouTube[/ame]


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## GuyNTexas (Jul 24, 2012)

Hollie said:


> So might this.
> 
> The last name was familiar as a contributor to the internet tabloid "prison planet" so I did some digging.
> 
> ...



Yes, it seems you did some serious digging .... and you excavated a blogger named Adam Holland ... who has a blog named adam holland.  He has a face book page, and a twitter account .. and that's about all he says about himself and his background ... which was also all I could find about him.  In other words, who the hell is adam holland and why should anyone consider anything he has to say as being worth a cup of coffee?

Looking over his "blog" ... what I see is a propensity to blog about anyone having anything unkind to say about Israel ... anyone who dares even question the official story of 911 ... and a prolific mud slinger to include furthering the nonsense alluding to Ron Paul being a racist.  What that tells me is that he's an Israeli apologist at the very least, and it's not out of the realm of possibility that he's being paid by the SPLC or ADL (it's documented fact that Israel employs thousands of bloggers and social media trolls to crush, defame, and attack anyone unfriendly to Israel).    So his opinions hold no more weight or legitimacy than yours do, and I'm sorry to tell you .. that isn't very much.   Far from being a "reputable" source ... he's a nobody, with no reputation to analyze.

Now, I've already stated that I don't subscribe to Dr. Sabrosky's opinion that "Israel Did It" because I think that lets too many off the hook, and is not an accurate assessment.  However, there is more than enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Israeli Intelligence had foreknowledge of the attacks at the very least ... and it would certainly fit their well established profile to have also participated.  We absolutely know that Israel has attacked the United States before (USS Liberty attack) ... and we also know that Israel has a significant espionage element spying on the US ... because they are such great friends.   And they thank you ... because much, if not all of those friendly gestures are funded with your tax dollars.

So I can see where Dr. Sabrosky might consider Israel a prime suspect .. as they likely did play a role ... and they do have a very dubious history of false flag attacks for their political gain, with Mosad's motto "By way of deception, make war".   But Israel couldn't have "done it" alone, as believed/claimed by the Dr.


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## Indofred (Jul 24, 2012)

daveman said:


> Imagine that -- an irrational Jew-hater lying.
> 
> So, Fred, still think this guy's bullshit is worth serious consideration?
> 
> Careful, now -- your answer may reveal volumes about you.



I refuse to hate any group for their beliefs or race.
Some people do but it doesn't negate everything else they say

I believe in taking a close look at evidence and making my mind up rather than dismissing something simply because I don't like a person, their religion or politics.

I believe it's called 'an open mind'.


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## Hollie (Jul 24, 2012)

GuyNTexas said:


> Hollie said:
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From the "tone" of your post, it seems you're hoping to, (you want to), subscribe to the conspiracy theory promoted by Alan Sabrosky. 

I find it really strange that Mr. Sabrosky needs such outlets as press.tv (Iranian state propaganda machine), and prison planet (among the worst of the sensational, sleazy tabloids), to further his conspiracies. 

I also find it odd that you aren't a bit more concerned with the versacity of the conspiracies floated by Mr. Sabrosky in view of his manufactured credentials. Both you and he are generous with his supposed job titles and work experience. It seems that Mr. Sabrosky has been peddling his conspiracy theories to whomever will listen but his only audience has been the virulently Jew hating Iranians and the far, far, really, really far left internet tabloids.


----------



## Indofred (Jul 24, 2012)

The "Dancing Israelis" FBI Report - Debunked

White Chevrolet Van, New Jersey, license plate JRJ13Y, registered to Urban Moving Systems, 312 Pavonia, Pavonia Avenue #1, Jersey City, New Jersey, contained telephone numbers and names directly associated with previously identified [blank] and activities.

Urban moving systems, an Israeli owned company that has never filed a tax return, and had some dodgy employees.

See the police report on the arrest of people that some posters deny even exist.
Not a bad report considering the cops arrested ghosts.

Dancing Israelis Police Report


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## Indofred (Jul 24, 2012)

Zionism Stinks: The official 2001 FBI docs on Urban Moving Systems and the 9-11-2001 Dancing Israelis incident


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## Indofred (Jul 24, 2012)

The more you look into police and FBI reports, the more you realise something just doesn't add up.

That's making me look even harder at this.
I don't as yet have a conclusion but I do have enough to make me wonder if there's actually something in the reports I'd previously dismissed as politically motivated crap.


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## Indofred (Jul 24, 2012)

OK - I see no one is much interested in conspiracy theories.
Perhaps someone can explain the news regarding WTC7 falling being released before the fucking thing went down.
The reporter is telling us all about it but the building is in the background.


Of all the stuff that stinks, this a fucking great big smelly old haddock.


Anyone care to explain how they knew it had fallen before it fell?


----------



## Rat in the Hat (Jul 24, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZrlNw-31R8]9/11 Debunked: BBC Early Report on WTC 7 Collapse Explained - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Indofred (Jul 24, 2012)

Nice debunk.
Perhaps you can explain why the BBC claimed it was blue screen of earlier footage, before the collapse, used in error.


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## eots (Jul 24, 2012)

Rat in the Hat said:


> 9/11 Debunked: BBC Early Report on WTC 7 Collapse Explained - YouTube



this video is full of misinformation..and in direct conflict with the findings of the NIST report


----------



## Jos (Jul 24, 2012)

slackjawed said:


> &#1488;&#1514;&#1501; truthers &#1492;&#1501; &#1508;&#1513;&#1493;&#1496; &#1488;&#1497;&#1491;&#1497;&#1493;&#1496;&#1497;&#1501;



Whats the opposite of Truther's...?


----------



## Mr. Jones (Jul 24, 2012)

GuyNTexas said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > So might this.
> ...



Well done. 
Seems like they crawl out of the woodwork to defend any criticism of Israel, whether they be paid  Israeli loyalists shills, or ignorant Christian zionists, or just plain stupid American citizens.
 PNAC is made up of mostly Israeli firsters, and loyalists. Many held positions of authority in the Bush administration, and others. Their paper suggested a new Pearl Harbor event was needed to get the backing for their militaristic agenda. There is a connection that leads to what many consider to be more then a coincidence.
Congress grovels at the feet of Israeli leaders who OK massive amounts of "aid" while mllions of Americans are in severe economic distress.
The Israeli government does not give a fuck about you and neither does your president or congressman.
An Israeli lawmaker tore the pages out of the new testament and threw it in the trash where he said it belonged. The Talmud is full of vile things about Jesus and Christians and rabbis preach this hatred with no reprimand from Israeli leaders..the leaders whose asses your congressman kiss.
Where is the out rage from the Pastors and churches? How many of you heard about this in the MSM? It didn't make the news because it would make Israel look bad, but if Muslims were to do that, you bet your ass it would be plastered all over the place for days.

I don't believe all Israelis jews subscribe to this sort of hatred, but many do as they are taught this thinking. 
It is obvious that there are many American (traitors) and Israeli troll activists, who try to minimize, or discredit  everything that is opposed to the OCT of Israel and Washington.
We need real American leadership who puts America and her citizens first, but there will be no demand for such leaders while the people of this country remain in ignorant bliss.

BURN A KORAN FOR JESUS // TRASH A BIBLE FOR ZION « Desertpeace


----------



## Jos (Jul 24, 2012)

Rat in the Hat said:


> 9/11 Debunked: BBC Early Report on WTC 7 Collapse Explained - YouTube



Ryan Owens has been debunked
Debunking the Debunkers: An Open Letter To Ryan Owens

Ever wonder why so many jews try to cover up what really happened on 9/11?


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## Mr. Jones (Jul 24, 2012)

Jos said:


> Rat in the Hat said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 Debunked: BBC Early Report on WTC 7 Collapse Explained - YouTube
> ...



Debunked in many instances by the NIST report itself.

Many Jews try to obfuscate the facts, and when that doesn't work they throw out the antisemitic card, which is admitted to being a trick they always use, and of course they have to sometimes throw in how much Iranians hate them as well, you know in order to further distort reality in the already nuked minds of ignorant Americans, who don't know a thing when it comes to this topic as well.
The bad news for them is that more citizens are waking up to the reality that the Israeli government is not a friend to American citizens, and only use them as cannon fodder to fight wars that only benefit Israel.
The anti American sentiment around the Muslim world, a sentiment that no doubt has increased since 9-11 and the subsequent wars and the inhumane treatment of Muslims here and abroad, is a direct result of the totally unnecessary alliance our leaders have  created for America with the criminal apartheid state of Israel.


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## Indofred (Jul 24, 2012)

Indofred said:


> Frankly, while there are many conspiracy theories about 9/11, I just can't see enough evidence to be sure either way.
> I've heard loads of pro Muslims groups claim the attacks were mossad.
> However, I've always assumed that was political shit and not worth listening to.
> This one is different because of who is saying it.
> ...



One of the most interesting things about a debate, is to see the reactions generated by any given post or thread.
Most of the far right have posted little or nothing except insults and insulted me more privately in the form of red bricks with comments.

GHook93 red bricked the above post with the comment,	"STFU you cocksuck muslim scumbag!".

I'm assured Islam is the religion of hate. 
I see there is no hate anywhere in the world except from Muslims - not.

The truth, as is usual, is a mix of the opinions held by the extremes.
Hate is a very silly, two way thing that is equal in both groups of extremists.

The world would be a far better place if we could only educate the idiots on both sides.

Peace, love and understanding would allow all to live together without conflict.
The stupidity of hate and, "You hit me first" politics just keeps the death toll rising.


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## daveman (Jul 24, 2012)

Indofred said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...


I'd say the OP pretty much seals the deal -- especially since Hollie's shown that the author is a lying POS.

Bye.


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## daveman (Jul 24, 2012)

Indofred said:


> Dr. Alan Sabrosky: Israel behind 9/11, Part II - YouTube



Your post, sir, is twaddle.


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## daveman (Jul 24, 2012)

Indofred said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Imagine that -- an irrational Jew-hater lying.
> ...


So, you believe his lies because you WANT to.

I thought you were leaving...?


----------



## Hollie (Jul 24, 2012)

Indofred said:


> OK - I see no one is much interested in conspiracy theories.
> Perhaps someone can explain the news regarding WTC7 falling being released before the fucking thing went down.
> The reporter is telling us all about it but the building is in the background.
> 
> ...



Try and think this through. Your conspiracy theory for 9/11 would necessarily include the top echelon of several governments, including various branches of the US government, the military, various airline manufacturing companies, various insurance companies, in short, huge numbers of people and now to include the BBC. 

These loopy paranoid delusions are unhealthy.


----------



## daveman (Jul 24, 2012)

Hollie said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > OK - I see no one is much interested in conspiracy theories.
> ...


Everybody's in on it but me and you...and I ain't too sure about you.


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## whitehall (Jul 24, 2012)

It's old news and Sobrosky offered nothing but bigoted twaddle.


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## eots (Jul 24, 2012)

Hollie said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > OK - I see no one is much interested in conspiracy theories.
> ...



*This website provides responsible criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report by senior military, intelligence and government officials.*
Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report


----------



## Indofred (Jul 25, 2012)

eots said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...



That's a lot of very senior people with questions no one has ever managed to answer.

The Pentagon is one of the things that draws me to conspiracy theories.
That building has to be one of the most secure in the world but there isn't a single photo or video of the aircraft hitting it.
All they would need to do to silence the missile argument, is release one photo but they won't.
That leads me to suspect they can't because there are none.
One video, the security gate, is edited to merry fuck in order to hide what hit the building.


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## Indofred (Jul 25, 2012)

The Pentagon "crash" is the one that made me wonder in the first place.

The official story says an aircraft crashed into the building and burnt up, leaving no debris.
Bollocks.

Where were the wings and tail that normally break off?






A smaller aircraft crashes and leaves loads, a large one crashes and leaves nothing.






Aircraft wings would leave marks on the building as they hit.











Can anyone point them out on pictures of the damaged Pentagon?


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## Indofred (Jul 25, 2012)

I have no idea if this is real or not but it needs investigating.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZmSHTiYa2M&feature=related]Building 7 detonated - NEW FOOTAGE - YouTube[/ame]


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## Indofred (Jul 25, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi5xg3CuILI&feature=related]Hostile BBC interview with Dr Niels Harrit for 9/11 truth - YouTube[/ame]


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## LA RAM FAN (Jul 25, 2012)

Hollie said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > Frankly, while there are many conspiracy theories about 9/11, I just can't see enough evidence to be sure either way.
> ...



The problem with your ramblings is you or nobody else has ever been able to debunk the FACTS the mossad was involved.You official conspiracy theory apologists always run away with your tails between your legs to debunk this video cause you know you cant.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD_vwzjdTi4]9/11 - Missing Links ( full movie ) - YouTube[/ame]

Not that it matters now.9/11 is done and over with and is the least of our problems we have to worry about from the government right now.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jul 25, 2012)

Mr. Jones said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...





Thats Dunceman for ya.


Treason is keeping quiet about it and not asking questions about the treasonous OCT that doesn't add up.
Shut up, order yourself some wings with blue cheese and watch a Batman movie, you mindless fucking troll. 

amen to that.



While there is irrefutable evidence of Israeli prior knowledge of the event, there are major flaws in the theory that Israel could have conducted the operation alone. I don't buy that proposition at all, as common sense would demand that the War Games being conducted by the Defense Department on the morning of 911 could not have been initiated by Israel, and those operations have to be considered as providing a support role in the main event. The idea that "Israel did it" doesn't fit the larger picture, of which 911 was only the latest operation in a string of events which allowed each successively larger operation to be implemented.

We've become a nation of sleep walkers who suffer a severe impairment in overall awareness and memory, and in our collective lack of critical analysis skills. The 1993 WTC bombing is a classic example of this. Just how many remember, or were ever actually aware of the FBI's involvement in that first attack? I'm sure, at this moment, there are those who will immediately think ... what? WTF is this GuyNTexas blabbering about? Aren't you? Sure you are. It's OK ... this is amazingly common. Nevertheless, the FBI's involvement in the 1993 bombing of the WTC is undeniable, because the FBI itself has admitted to it. And I don't think one can have a greater level of evidence than a damned confession. Of course, that confession came in the form of admitting that the bombing was a covert sting operation that went south ... yet the details clearly indicate that it was far more sinister in nature, given the fact that the FBI provided the REAL explosives used in that bombing to their informant-asset, Emad Salem who was placed on the inside, and was intimately familiar/involved in all aspects of the planning and implementation conducted by this group of "Muslim Terrorists". That was the big tip off to Salem, as he argued with his FBI handler about the wisdom of providing real explosives, rather than inert material. That's when Salem began recording his conversations with his FBI handler for his own protection, realizing that they may indeed be planning to use him as a "patsy". And that is the only thing that saved his rear end when this information was presented in Federal Court, forcing the FBI to own up to their participation in this "sting operation". One would think that such a revelation would make the headlines of every newspaper and television news across the nation ... but it was treated as non-news ... finding little interest, save of a couple of paragraphs on page 20 of the New York Times, and then quickly finding obscurity thereafter.

Then we have the Oklahoma City Bombing in which a widespread conspiracy involving the FBI, ATF and the national media is beyond question ... though this was kept totally out of the public's perception due to that national media complicity. Within 24 hours of the OKC bombing, the entire story was rewritten, and the truthful details scrubbed from all national news reporting, save for one local OKC news channel who insisted on continuing to highlight the fact that there were other explosive devices found inside the building undetonated, as was clearly reported by authorities at the site that day. That news channel was subsequently bought by the New York Times media conglomerate, and it's executive staff fired, ceasing that rogue group of truth tellers.

I remember watching the live news coverage that morning, and the reports of TWO additional, undetonated explosive devices found inside the building. Yet, the very next day, the story was changed to the "ANFO" bomb in the Ryder truck parked outside as being the only explosive responsible for all of the death and destruction, including 19 children in the building's daycare center, and some 150 adults. All mention of explosives inside the building was very quickly exorcised from the national news coverage, and the new story became the new truth. How is it that public can be so easily duped by this rather obvious demonstration of fraud?

So, it's no wonder why the many other details of that crime were successfully covered up, such as the torture/murder of OKC Police Officer Yeakey, who was first on the scene and rescued the first survivors. Officer Yeakey had seen troubling things, and was in the process of collecting evidence in the days after the attack. He was the subject of FBI surveillance in the following days ... known to him and his family. On the day of his death, he had arranged to meet a friend for dinner after he finished moving a bunch of files related to his investigation to a storage facility for safe keeping. He told his friend that he just had to shake the FEDS following him. He never made it. His body was found ... showing he had not only been murdered, but brutally tortured, with severe bruising on the bottoms of his feet (a common means of torture to inflict pain), bruises and lacerations all over his body ... throat slit, and a gunshot wound to his temple with no gunpowder residue (meaning it couldn't have been self inflicted). Nevertheless, the coroner listed his death as a suicide.

The thumb suckers who will deny .. challenge .. or try to explain away these and many other damning details showing OKC as an inside job, helped ensure 911 would follow, and those that are doing the same thing regarding 911 will be complicit in the next "terror" event. Anyone who asks the questions how and why did 911 happen, there's your answer. As long as the public insists on remaining in an intellectual coma, and chooses to continue sucking their thumbs .... the perpetrators of these crimes are going to continue committing them, and if the pattern remains consistent, the next one will be larger and more deadly than the last.

Now, I don't know if this man really believes his story about "Israel did it", or whether this is just another disinfo tactic to further muddy the waters. What people have to understand is that people even in high positions of authority and level of knowledge are as easily duped as the general public. It's called compartmentalization, and the "need to know". Even people with identical levels of security clearance are not privy to the same information, based on that subjective "need to know" process. In fact, Law Enforcement types are particularly vulnerable to deception, because they are often given "classified intelligence information" not available to the public, which reasons certain activities that might otherwise be questioned as dubious. For example, LE might be briefed on the high alert probability of a suspected terrorist event that is deemed "immanent" , including information that sets the stage with suspected sources of that threat like "al qaeda", and the inside informants providing that intelligence. Therefore, if and when those "informants" are caught participating, they already have their cover story established, and the LE officials previously "briefed" see nothing untowards, as they were already told about that activity ahead of time.

These types of covert operations always employ a means for "plausible deniability", often using some form of cover story, be it a "sting operation" or a "training exercise". This was certainly true of the 7-7 London subway bombing, as it was admitted afterward that the group "Visor Associates" were conducting a terror response exercise at the exact same time and places for which the "real" attacks took place. This was also true on 911 as well .... both in the form of DOD-Pentagon live training exercises involving hijacked aircraft, and also the alleged "Tripod" training exercise being conducted in New York City which had FEMA officials arriving in NYC the night of September 10. 

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to detect something out of the ordinary going on here ... but it does take a supreme level of naiveté to think it all just an endless set of coincidences. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by GuyNTexas; 07-23-2012 at 02:57 PM. 


Indeed.Yeah the mossad couldnt have done it all by themselves.it was a joint CIA/MOSSAD operation.they work hand in hand together.Best post on this thread. Yeah that was a major event the 1993 WTC bombing.should have been all over the front pages for several months but was ignored.The corporate controlled media consider oj simpson front page news material that needs to be plastered all over the front pages,but something like that not news worthy.yep,no government conspiracy there and no media compliticy. you'll never get anywhere trying to reason with DUNCEMAN,he wont read any of that,he is so much in denial.



QUOTE=GuyNTexas;5673374]





SFC Ollie said:


> I'm sorry, but what was it that ties OKC and 911 together again?



FBI .... 1993 WTC Bombing - explosives provided by the FBI, and proven in tape recorded conversations between FBI - John Anticev and the informant Emad Salem.

FBI .... engaged in multiple acts of criminal conduct (including their possible involvement in the murder of OKC Police Officer Yeakey), among many other details including the coercion and intimidation of Grand Jury members.

FBI ... involvement in derailing counter-terror investigations being conducted in the months prior to 911, including halting investigations of some of the alleged terrorists, much to the outrage of honest FBI agents involved in those investigations.

Just for starters ...[/QUOTE]

that guy your talking ot is a disinfo agent troll.Your wasting your time with him.You'll find there are some agents that have penetrated this site and others that are just afraid and in denial such as Toto and Dunceman for example that dont want to look at the evidence and wont address anythig you bring up to them.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Jul 25, 2012)

Mr. Jones said:


> slackjawed said:
> 
> 
> > Mr. Jones said:
> ...



agent Gomer Pyle Ollie is a disgrace to his fellow military officers participating in this coverup for money.


this video is full of misinformation..and in direct conflict with the findings of the NIST report 
so very true.someone as always,gets his ass handed to him on a platter.


Whats the opposite of Truther's...? 

that would be official conspiracy theory apologists.


One of the most interesting things about a debate, is to see the reactions generated by any given post or thread.
Most of the far right have posted little or nothing except insults and insulted me more privately in the form of red bricks with comments.

GHook93 red bricked the above post with the comment, "STFU you cocksuck muslim scumbag!".

I'm assured Islam is the religion of hate. 
I see there is no hate anywhere in the world except from Muslims - not.

The truth, as is usual, is a mix of the opinions held by the extremes.
Hate is a very silly, two way thing that is equal in both groups of extremists.

The world would be a far better place if we could only educate the idiots on both sides.

Peace, love and understanding would allow all to live together without conflict.
The stupidity of hate and, "You hit me first" politics just keeps the death toll rising. 

Ghook loves going around trolling all the time.Yeah he does that to me a lot as always red bricking me with comments like that.the truth is very discomforting to him so it makes him feel better about himself to lash out at the messenger of the truth.lol.


----------



## Hollie (Jul 25, 2012)

9/11 inside job said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...


Are you somehow under the impression that a YouTube video presents the "FACTS" you claim exist?


----------



## Toro (Jul 25, 2012)

[youtube]5gLA3zFXK-s[/youtube]


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## Toro (Jul 25, 2012)

Hollie said:


> Are you somehow under the impression that a YouTube video presents the "FACTS" you claim exist?



9/11 inside nutjob's entire argument is "watch these 347 youtube videos."

I'm not joking.


----------



## Mr. Jones (Jul 25, 2012)

Toro said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Are you somehow under the impression that a YouTube video presents the "FACTS" you claim exist?
> ...


There's plenty of good information in videos that relay good points on the topic. You people can't counter the argument presented in links or videos, so naturally you choose to criticize the person who posts them.


----------



## slackjawed (Jul 25, 2012)

Jos said:


> slackjawed said:
> 
> 
> > &#1488;&#1514;&#1501; truthers &#1492;&#1501; &#1508;&#1513;&#1493;&#1496; &#1488;&#1497;&#1491;&#1497;&#1493;&#1496;&#1497;&#1501;
> ...



the sane


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## Toro (Jul 25, 2012)

Mr. Jones said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



I can answer all the criticisms. Just read these 31 books I've read.


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## Mr. Jones (Jul 25, 2012)

> Try and think this through. Your conspiracy theory for 9/11 would necessarily include the top echelon of several governments, including various branches of the US government, the military, various airline manufacturing companies, various insurance companies, in short, huge numbers of people and now to include the BBC.


 Yes and? 
Research who was in the top echelon of the US and the Israeli governments at the time of 9-11, and what kind of ME policies and agendas they subscribe to.Look and see who was in top echelon positions in the Bush and Clinton administrations prior to and during 9-11.


The military/defense dept had a huge increase in their budget and got to use their new weaponry, and many were promoted despite the "failures" that occurred on 9-11.

The airlines just make planes... I would think how they are used by the buyers or retrofitted is not their concern. It is interesting that-

Rabbi Dov Zakheim was Chief Executive Officer of System Planning Corporation's International Division until President George W. Bush appointed him Undersecretary of Defense and Comptroller of the Pentagon. Not long before Rabbi Zakheim rose to power over the Pentagon's labyrinthine, bottomless accounts, he co-authored an article entitled "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century" which was published by The Project for a New American Century in September 2000, exactly a year before 9/11. 

...in 2001 Dov was CEO of SPS International, part of System Planning Corporation, a defense contractor majoring in electronic warfare technologies, including remote-controlled aircraft systems, and the notorious Flight Termination System (FTS) technology that could hijack even a hijacked plane and land or crash it wherever.

 Zakheim was/is a dual Israeli/American citizen and an ordained rabbi and had been tracking the halls of US government for 25 years, casting defense policy and influence on Presidents Reagan, Clinton, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. He is, as I described him earlier, the bionic Zionist. In fact, Judicial Inc points out that most of Israels armaments were gotten thanks to him. Squads of US F-16 and F-15 were classified military surplus and sold to Israel at a fraction of their value.

Rabbi Zakheim had access to things like structural integrity, blueprints and any number of important facets of information about the WTC through his work with TRIDATA CORPORATION in the investigation of the bombing of the WTC in 1993.

"Perhaps not coincidentally in May 2001, when Dov served at the Pentagon, it was an SPS (his firms) subsidiary, Tridata Corporation, that oversaw the investigation of the first terrorist attack on the World Trade Center in 1993. This would have given them intimate knowledge of the security systems and structural blueprints of the World Trade Center."

And there's more regarding your top echelon US government officials to be found researched and looked at closer.

Insurance companies were screwed, and fought Silverstein.

And who do you think owns networks like the BBC, CNN and others??

The Northwoods plan included pracically all that you mentioned as well.

My point is that a it wouldn't take thousands, or even hundreds of people to implement and have a plan like 9-11 carried out, just the right people in top positions that no one would think of questioning or go against their orders. It called compartmentalizing, and the CIA and other intell agencies apply this, and information is only given out on a need to know basis, and underlings wouldn't have a need to know anything but to just do their fucking jobs and STFU.

So if you think 9-11 was carried out by 19  Saudi jihadists, that infiltrated the US air space at a time and date when "exercises" were being conducted, how did they manage to do all of that, and manage to keep all quiet about it for so long despite numerous intelligence agencies around the world monitoring their organization, some even warning the US officials about it.



> These loopy paranoid delusions are unhealthy.



No what is unhealthy is your deluded brainwashing, that prevents you from objective, critical thinking, and your level of denial as well as your lack of ability to rationally connect the dots that you display as a result of it
But I guess it's easier for you to go along with the BS that is spoon fed to you and keeps you in your cowardly comfort zone, instead of facing the reality of the information that is in the videos, and links that provide sound credible evidence to the fact that the OCT is deeply flawed.
Hell, even the 9-11 commission, admits there are problems with the narrative they were told, and there are problems with the NORAD tapes and flight paths, along with the physics of the collapses of the WTC , and the fact that the PNAC writers and signatories 
many who were in  your "top echelon" positions in the US government and who are steadfastly loyal to the state of Israel, expressed their views that are similar to what is occurring in the ME today.
To say it's impossible for 9-11 to have happened because too many people would have to be in on it, or someone would have talked is stupid, in fact people HAVE been talking but no one is listening, including you.
How could Alqaeda have kept such a huge and elaborate plan quiet for so long? Answer that.


----------



## Hollie (Jul 25, 2012)

Mr. Jones said:


> > Try and think this through. Your conspiracy theory for 9/11 would necessarily include the top echelon of several governments, including various branches of the US government, the military, various airline manufacturing companies, various insurance companies, in short, huge numbers of people and now to include the BBC.
> 
> 
> Yes and?
> ...



Your allegations can all be answered in one word:

The Joooooos did it.


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## daws101 (Jul 25, 2012)

I would have named this thread JEW HATING TWOOFER MYTHS OF 911.


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## SFC Ollie (Jul 25, 2012)

All these arguments have been answered many many times. Such as the so called exercises. There are exercises going on all the time, every single day of the year....... Of course some can't understand this.....


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## daws101 (Jul 25, 2012)

SFC Ollie said:


> All these arguments have been answered many many times. Such as the so called exercises. There are exercises going on all the time, every single day of the year....... Of course some can't understand this.....


if memory serves most are not live fire exercises.


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## daveman (Jul 25, 2012)

9/11 inside job said:


> Thats Dunceman for ya.



You keep screeching "JOOOOOOOS!!!"

Normal people will keep laughing at you.


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## SFC Ollie (Jul 25, 2012)

daws101 said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > All these arguments have been answered many many times. Such as the so called exercises. There are exercises going on all the time, every single day of the year....... Of course some can't understand this.....
> ...



Of course not.


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## daws101 (Jul 25, 2012)

SFC Ollie said:


> daws101 said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...


as you know the fortress America myth is strong among the twoofers.


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## Indofred (Jul 26, 2012)

daws101 said:


> I would have named this thread JEW HATING TWOOFER MYTHS OF 911.



Since it's my thread, please show a post were I've stated hatred for Jews.

That or apologise for your lie.


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## Indofred (Jul 26, 2012)

Hollie said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > OK - I see no one is much interested in conspiracy theories.
> ...



Please show where I claimed the BBC were 'in on it'.
I didn't say that, you assumed it or lied.
I said the BBC reported it and that, sweet things, is on tape.


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## Indofred (Jul 26, 2012)

daveman said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



I said I would leave if you can find a post where I've stated hatred towards Jews.
I seriously dislike the Israeli government but I can't say I even hate them.

Post where I've shown hatred or sign out of the forum and don't return.
You, with your pathetic attempt to show hatred, have accepted my challenge.

Put up or shut up.


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## daveman (Jul 26, 2012)

Indofred said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...


Most crypto-Jew-haters will never admit they hate Jews.  

You believe the lunatic ramblings of a proven Jew-hating liar -- not because there's any evidence of his claims, but because you share his feelings.

But as I said, you will never admit it.


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## Indofred (Jul 26, 2012)

daveman said:


> Most crypto-Jew-haters will never admit they hate Jews.
> 
> You believe the lunatic ramblings of a proven Jew-hating liar -- not because there's any evidence of his claims, but because you share his feelings.
> 
> But as I said, you will never admit it.



Let me get this right.
You say I hate Jews because I never say I hate Jews.

Right. 

Do you know the word, "Pillock"?


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## Hollie (Jul 26, 2012)

Indofred said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...



 As with so many who cling to a conspiratorial mindset, you're willing to believe what you want to believe. My take on your comments is that you have a desire to believe that the evil Great Satan and Israel have conspired to create 9/11. With that mindset firmly in place, just a bit of tweaking and prompting from those with a similar conspiratorial mindset will get your imagination running. It's these loopy, over the rainbow, ain't comin' back, conspiracy addled types that I find remarkable. 

Take one instance in connection with the BBC reporter and the mis-stated report of building 7 collapse. Did you watch the video you posted? The reporter prefaces her report by saying "details are very sketchy". What do you think that means? 

In all the confusion surrounding the events of that day (and as those events were unfolding), I can't find it surprising that a foreign reporter, (or any reporter), might make a mistake not knowing WTC (building 7) from the twin towers. 

You're choosing to believe in conspiracies because they calm an emotional requirement to vilify the Great Satan and Israel.


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## daws101 (Jul 26, 2012)

Indofred said:


> daws101 said:
> 
> 
> > I would have named this thread JEW HATING TWOOFER MYTHS OF 911.
> ...


why should I apologize for your reading comprehension disorder.
Nowhere in this thread do I state you personally hate Jews .
the bulk of the the posts in this thread are about the alleged Jewish connection to 911.   
knowing that, I made the comment .


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## LA RAM FAN (Jul 26, 2012)

Mr. Jones said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...





they'll spend two hours going to a movie theater and watching a movie but they wont watch a video cause after trying to watch a little of it,they see the facts are too ovwerwhelming to refute so they click it off and wont try and refute the information in there cause they know they cant counter it. like you said,same with any kind of link you present to them.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jul 26, 2012)

quote=Mr. Jones;5685227]


> Try and think this through. Your conspiracy theory for 9/11 would necessarily include the top echelon of several governments, including various branches of the US government, the military, various airline manufacturing companies, various insurance companies, in short, huge numbers of people and now to include the BBC.


 Yes and? 
Research who was in the top echelon of the US and the Israeli governments at the time of 9-11, and what kind of ME policies and agendas they subscribe to.Look and see who was in top echelon positions in the Bush and Clinton administrations prior to and during 9-11.


The military/defense dept had a huge increase in their budget and got to use their new weaponry, and many were promoted despite the "failures" that occurred on 9-11.

The airlines just make planes... I would think how they are used by the buyers or retrofitted is not their concern. It is interesting that-

Rabbi Dov Zakheim was Chief Executive Officer of System Planning Corporation's International Division until President George W. Bush appointed him Undersecretary of Defense and Comptroller of the Pentagon. Not long before Rabbi Zakheim rose to power over the Pentagon's labyrinthine, bottomless accounts, he co-authored an article entitled "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century" which was published by The Project for a New American Century in September 2000, exactly a year before 9/11. 

...in 2001 Dov was CEO of SPS International, part of System Planning Corporation, a defense contractor majoring in electronic warfare technologies, including remote-controlled aircraft systems, and the notorious Flight Termination System (FTS) technology that could hijack even a hijacked plane and land or crash it wherever.

 Zakheim was/is a dual Israeli/American citizen and an ordained rabbi and had been tracking the halls of US government for 25 years, casting defense policy and influence on Presidents Reagan, Clinton, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. He is, as I described him earlier, the bionic Zionist. In fact, Judicial Inc points out that most of Israel&#8217;s armaments were gotten thanks to him. Squads of US F-16 and F-15 were classified military surplus and sold to Israel at a fraction of their value.

Rabbi Zakheim had access to things like structural integrity, blueprints and any number of important facets of information about the WTC through his work with TRIDATA CORPORATION in the investigation of the bombing of the WTC in 1993.

"Perhaps not coincidentally in May 2001, when Dov served at the Pentagon, it was an SPS (his firm&#8217;s) subsidiary, Tridata Corporation, that oversaw the investigation of the first &#8220;terrorist&#8221; attack on the World Trade Center in 1993. This would have given them intimate knowledge of the security systems and structural blueprints of the World Trade Center."

And there's more regarding your top echelon US government officials to be found researched and looked at closer.

Insurance companies were screwed, and fought Silverstein.

And who do you think owns networks like the BBC, CNN and others??

The Northwoods plan included pracically all that you mentioned as well.

My point is that a it wouldn't take thousands, or even hundreds of people to implement and have a plan like 9-11 carried out, just the right people in top positions that no one would think of questioning or go against their orders. It called compartmentalizing, and the CIA and other intell agencies apply this, and information is only given out on a need to know basis, and underlings wouldn't have a need to know anything but to just do their fucking jobs and STFU.

So if you think 9-11 was carried out by 19  Saudi jihadists, that infiltrated the US air space at a time and date when "exercises" were being conducted, how did they manage to do all of that, and manage to keep all quiet about it for so long despite numerous intelligence agencies around the world monitoring their organization, some even warning the US officials about it.



> These loopy paranoid delusions are unhealthy.



No what is unhealthy is your deluded brainwashing, that prevents you from objective, critical thinking, and your level of denial as well as your lack of ability to rationally connect the dots that you display as a result of it
But I guess it's easier for you to go along with the BS that is spoon fed to you and keeps you in your cowardly comfort zone, instead of facing the reality of the information that is in the videos, and links that provide sound credible evidence to the fact that the OCT is deeply flawed.
Hell, even the 9-11 commission, admits there are problems with the narrative they were told, and there are problems with the NORAD tapes and flight paths, along with the physics of the collapses of the WTC , and the fact that the PNAC writers and signatories 
many who were in  your "top echelon" positions in the US government and who are steadfastly loyal to the state of Israel, expressed their views that are similar to what is occurring in the ME today.
To say it's impossible for 9-11 to have happened because too many people would have to be in on it, or someone would have talked is stupid, in fact people HAVE been talking but no one is listening, including you.
How could Alqaeda have kept such a huge and elaborate plan quiet for so long? Answer that.[/QUOTE]


amazing how Toto never gets tired of getting his ass handed to him on a platter and embarrassing himself all the time getting taken to school by people like you constantly. yep the chickenshit coward ignores the FACTS that if he debated like he does here in a debating hall,he would be laughed out of that debating halli n a minute since your actually suppose to address the information your opponet presents instead of coming back with pathetic one liners like he always does when he cant counter evidence like the monkey troll he is he can only sling shit in defeat.


He knows as well as we do that if he attempted to debate like he does here in a debating hall he would be laughed out of it in minutes. you got to actually say something besides pitiful one liners such as -"your paranoid" to have any kind of credibility.

The way he debates he wouldnt even last one minute against a grade school kid.If he debated with them like he does here ther teacher would say-Toto,we established the rules from the very beginning,you have to try and refute the evidence your opponent presented.He just gave tyou some evidence for you,you have to try and debunk it now.Your just standing there not saying anything.If you dont say  anything-"which he never does except pathetic one liners like the troll he is." if you dont say anything,then you lose the debate.. and he KNOWS thats true and never comments on it.


I saw this post on another message board.I wish I could take credit for it because it so much describes people like Toto and Dunceman but that would be dishonest,I cant take credit for it but this post describes them to a tee.

People always have problems with incoming&#65279; information. People are so standardized and brainwashed. Anything that to the ordinary average consciousness is different to what they understand or think they know, they reject with a platitude and a spit. Oh! I've never heard of that. Where did you get that? I'm sticking with my version because that's weird. Much easier to roll with comfortable ideas than rock their beautiful world.

What Toto and Dunceman hate is that Mad Scientist used to be just like them.Myself,you and Eots wold try to unbrainwash him all the time about 9/11 but it did no good.He had to find out for himself but he finally is awake on that and government corruption going on.BIGREBNC reminds me an awful lot of MS.He senses something is wrong and is just now waking up seeing that the official explanation for 9/11 is B.S althought it took him a little bit too many years to wake the hell up and get his head buried in the sand with that ostrich out of the sand.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jul 26, 2012)

Indofred said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Most crypto-Jew-haters will never admit they hate Jews.
> ...



amazing how Toto and Dunceman never get tired of showing they have reading comprehension problems isnt it?


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## Jos (Jul 26, 2012)

daws101 said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > daws101 said:
> ...



Actually the bulk of the the posts in this thread are By jews denying  the alleged Jewish connection to 911, while keeping an eye out on their escape plan to Israel


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## daws101 (Jul 26, 2012)

9/11 inside job said:


> indofred said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...


 thank you hand job! Now it's time to give the other patients  a turn at show and tell!


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## daws101 (Jul 26, 2012)

Jos said:


> daws101 said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...


 THIS COMING FROM THE GUY WHO CLAIMS FLIGHT93 WAS SHOT DOWN BY AN INVISIBLE ROUGE PILOT.
YOU'LL UNDERSTAND WHY WHEN I SAY you're full of shit and stfu. regards...


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## LA RAM FAN (Jul 26, 2012)

two farts in a row from you dawgshit.


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## daws101 (Jul 26, 2012)

9/11 inside job said:


> two farts in a row from you dawgshit.


hey hand job if you have me on ignore then ignore me.
kinda ruins the effect when you answer!


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## LA RAM FAN (Jul 26, 2012)

GuyNTexas said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



Your memory serves you well on remembering the media reporting THREE bombs the police found inside the murrah building on oklahoma.Funny how the evidence is clear cut from the reporting of how they found three bombs in the building that all that got ignored and the official version was one bomb in the front made out of fertilizer from Mcveih.

watch this video.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCNloTPLg-U]Multiple Bombs in Oklahoma City Murrah Federal Building (News Reports) - YouTube[/ame]


clear cut proof the government lied back then on the events about oklahoma city.our government wouldnt dare lie to us about 9/11 now would they,or would they?


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## LA RAM FAN (Jul 26, 2012)

9/11 inside job said:


> two farts in a row from you dawgshit.



make that three from you.


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## Jos (Jul 26, 2012)

daws101 said:


> THIS COMING FROM THE GUY WHO CLAIMS FLIGHT93 WAS SHOT DOWN BY AN INVISIBLE ROUGE PILOT.
> YOU'LL UNDERSTAND WHY WHEN I SAY you're full of shit and stfu. regards...



I dont claim it, I repeat it
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6Xoxaf1Al0]Rumsfeld says Flight 93 was "shot down." - YouTube[/ame]
Flight 93 Shot Down by Lt Col Rick Gibney on 9/11


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## LA RAM FAN (Jul 26, 2012)

Jos said:


> daws101 said:
> 
> 
> > THIS COMING FROM THE GUY WHO CLAIMS FLIGHT93 WAS SHOT DOWN BY AN INVISIBLE ROUGE PILOT.
> ...



amazing how you guys waste time with these paid trolls giving them the attention they seek taking their bait which makes their handlers very happy since they send them here just to try and derail these threads and then you guys always take the bait.this advise goes ignored everytime.


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## daveman (Jul 26, 2012)

Indofred said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Most crypto-Jew-haters will never admit they hate Jews.
> ...


Wrong.  I say you hate Jews because you believe what a known and proven Jew-hating liar says about Jews.


Indofred said:


> Right.
> 
> Do you know the word, "Pillock"?


Yes.  And it doesn't apply.


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## Hollie (Jul 26, 2012)

9/11 inside job said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > daws101 said:
> ...


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## daveman (Jul 26, 2012)

9/11 inside job said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...


The Jew did not fuck up your life.

YOU did.


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## daveman (Jul 26, 2012)

Jos said:


> daws101 said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...


Really?  Who all in this thread is a Jew?

And calling someone a Jew is the worst insult you can imagine, isn't it?


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## SFC Ollie (Jul 26, 2012)

Still waiting for any kind of proof that we can take into court.


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## daveman (Jul 26, 2012)

9/11 inside job said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > daws101 said:
> ...


Who's paying me, and how much?  


9/11 inside job said:


> ...giving them the attention they seek taking their bait which makes their handlers very happy since they send them here just to try and derail these threads and then you guys always take the bait.this advise goes ignored everytime.


Yeah.  You're a lunatic, you know that?

Speaking of things you don't know:
F-16 Pilot
Claim: In February 2004, retired Army Col. Donn de Grand-Pre said on "The Alex Jones Show," a radio talk show broadcast on 42 stations: "It [Flight 93] was taken out by the North Dakota Air Guard. I know the pilot who fired those two missiles to take down 93." LetsRoll911.org, citing de Grand-Pre, identifies the pilot: "Major Rick Gibney fired two Sidewinder missiles at the aircraft and destroyed it in midflight at precisely 0958."

FACT: Saying he was reluctant to fuel debate by responding to unsubstantiated charges, Gibney (a lieutenant colonel, not a major) declined to comment. According to Air National Guard spokesman Master Sgt. David Somdahl, Gibney flew an F-16 that morning--but nowhere near Shanksville. He took off from Fargo, N.D., and flew to Bozeman, Mont., to pick up Ed Jacoby Jr., the director of the New York State Emergency Management Office. Gibney then flew Jacoby from Montana to Albany, N.Y., so Jacoby could coordinate 17,000 rescue workers engaged in the state's response to 9/11. Jacoby confirms the day's events. "I was in Big Sky for an emergency managers meeting. Someone called to say an F-16 was landing in Bozeman. From there we flew to Albany." Jacoby is outraged by the claim that Gibney shot down Flight 93. "I summarily dismiss that because Lt. Col. Gibney was with me at that time. It disgusts me to see this because the public is being misled. More than anything else it disgusts me because it brings up fears. It brings up hopesit brings up all sorts of feelings, not only to the victims' families but to all the individuals throughout the country, and the world for that matter. I get angry at the misinformation out there."​Of course, you will predictably dismiss this eyewitness account, because it does not validate your fantasy.

Seek help.  You obviously have a growth inside your skull.


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## daws101 (Jul 26, 2012)

The Truth About 9/11
Theories of Government Conspiracy Are Thoroughly Debunked
David W. Thornton, Yahoo! Contributor Network
Sep 4, 2011 "Share your voice on Yahoo! websites. Start Here."
.More:911 RememberedOsama Bin Laden Death PhotosSeptember 11 Anniversary.tweet0PrintFlagClose
Post a commentAs the U.S. approaches the tenth anniversary of the attacks on September 11, 2001, it is time to put to rest the myriad of conspiracy theories that have surrounded both the attacks and the U.S. response. Radicals from both the extreme right and left have sought to propagate these theories in order to further their own aims. Not coincidentally, many of these conpiricists have also made handsome profits from books and films that purport to dispel the lies about 9/11.

The attacks, which were the worst attack on U.S. soil since Pearl Harbor, resulted in the deaths of 2,996 people. Several Georgians were also killed in the attacks. Maynard Spence of Douglasville, Harshad Thatte of Norcross, Adam White of Atlanta, and Claude Michael Gann of Roswell died in the World Trade Center. Leslie Whittington of Atlanta died when American Airlines Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon. U.S. Army Maj. Steve Long of Georgia died in the Pentagon.

Five years after the attacks, Popular Mechanics released a definitive analysis of many of the conspiracy claims. Much of the information in the book "Debunking 9/11 Myths: Why Conspiracy Theories Can't Stand Up To Hard Facts" is now available for free online at PopularMechanics.com. The website 911myths.com also debunks many of the conspiracy theories around the attacks.

The Popular Mechanics report notes that only 14 American fighter planes were on alert in the 48 contiguous states on the morning of September 11. Further, intercepts of civilian aircraft were not common for air defense fighters. In the decade before the attacks, the one and only civilian aircraft intercepted by fighters in U.S. airspace was the Learjet carrying golfer Payne Stewart, which flew uncontrolled from Florida to South Dakota before crashing after the cabin depressurized. PM reports that it took an F-16 one hour and 22 minutes to make the intercept.

In answer to the skeptics' claim that the damage to the World Trade Center buildings was too widespread to be caused by a single aircraft strike on each tower, PM responds that thousands of pounds of jet fuel atomized on impact and traveled throughout the buildings. The burning fuel spread flames through elevator and utility shafts. Flames reportedly exploded through the elevator doors in the lobby moments after impact. The 1500 degree flames from burning jet fuel was not strong enough melt steel, but it did reduce the steel frames of the towers to about ten percent of their normal strength.

PM notes that at least one conspiracy site cropped seismology charts to support the notion that controlled demolitions toppled the towers. The full charts clearly show the impacts of both aircraft followed by the collapse of the towers. Extensive damage to surrounding buildings also lends credence to the fact that the collapse of the towers was a chaotic, catastrophic event.

Conspiracy theorists have charged that the Pentagon was hit by a missile rather than an airplane, citing the small size of the hole in the wall. PM points out that both wings of the aircraft were sheared off by the impact and that the 75 foot wide hole that is consistent with the size of the airliner's fuselage. A separate 12 foot hole was likely made by the landing gear.

In contrast with conspiracy claims that no aircraft wreckage was recovered at the Pentagon, there are both photos and eyewitness accounts of aircraft wreckage. Allyn Kilsheimer, a structural engineer and blast expert who arrived on scene shortly after the crash, is quoted in the PM article, "I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box. I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"

In Pennsylvania, where United Flight 93 crashed, a white jet reported in the area is revealed to be a business jet that was descending into nearby Johnstown. Air traffic control asked the jet's pilots to investigate Flight 93 and they subsequently orbited the crash site at 1500 feet.

PM reports that the debris pattern of the Flight 93 crash site is consistent with a surface impact given the flight path and wind direction at the time of the crash. Lighter debris was thrown up and carried downwind for several miles. Similarly, an engine was found 300 yards downrange. This is consistent with the mass and velocity of the engine at impact.

Reports on a conspiracy radio show that claimed an F-16 pilot shot the airliner down were revealed to be lies. Ed Jacoby, director of the New York State Emergency Management Office, was with the pilot reported to have fired the missiles at Flight 93. The F-16 and pilot were tasked to return Jacoby from a meeting in Montana to Albany, N.Y. where he could coordinate the emergency services response to the attacks. Jacoby categorically denies that the pilot, Lt. Col. Rick Gibney, shot down Flight 93.

An examination of the timing of the attacks backs up Jacoby's story. The North Dakota Air National Guard operated F-16Bs. The straight-line distance between Bozeman, Mt. and Albany, N.Y. is 1,857 miles. Using the fighter's top speed listed on the plane's Air Force fact sheet, 1,345 mph, the trip would take less than an hour and a half, which would barely give Gibney time to get in position to shoot down Flight 93 at 10:03 a.m. if he took off from Bozeman immediately after American Flight 11 crashed into the WTC at 8:46 a.m. Eastern Time. But, according to the Air Force, the F-16B's range is only 1,407 miles and that range could only be achieved by flying at slower speeds. It is likely that Gibney had to rendezvous with an aerial tanker, which would further slow down the flight to Albany. It is also highly unlikely that Gibney was ready to launch immediately after the first WTC attack. In fact, Gibney first had to fly from his base at Fargo, N.D. to Bozeman to pick up Jacoby. There is simply no way he could have been over Pennsylvania in time to shoot down Flight 93.

Logically, the conspiracy theories do not add up. 
An obvious reason is that the government and the military were clearly caught by surprise.
The Truth About 9/11 - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com


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## daws101 (Jul 26, 2012)

Jos said:


> daws101 said:
> 
> 
> > THIS COMING FROM THE GUY WHO CLAIMS FLIGHT93 WAS SHOT DOWN BY AN INVISIBLE ROUGE PILOT.
> ...


alex jones !you're far more stupid than I gave you credit for.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jul 26, 2012)

three farts in a row from the trolls. two by Dawgshit.one by Dunceman.


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## SFC Ollie (Jul 26, 2012)

And nutjob still has nothing intelligent to say...........


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## eots (Jul 26, 2012)

daws101 said:


> The Truth About 9/11
> Theories of Government Conspiracy Are Thoroughly Debunked
> David W. Thornton, Yahoo! Contributor Network
> Sep 4, 2011 "Share your voice on Yahoo! websites. Start Here."
> ...



*meaningless cut and paste of no substance..*


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## LA RAM FAN (Jul 26, 2012)

daveman said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > Jos said:
> ...



Your the one who needs to seek help.You live in this fantasy world ignoring the laws of physics that scientists have gone by for thousands of years . No its just YOUR obviously afraid and scared of the truth so you ignore evidence and facts that dont go along with your fantays.you know it,I know it DUNCEMAN.


only lunatics ignore the laws of physics and how there was ZERO evidence of a jet airliner at the shanksville crash and pentagon. everytime i ask wheres the luggage,wheres the tail section,wheres the film of the airliner coming in? all you trolls can do is produce is five shots of a fireball that prove NOTHING.

all you did is post a bunch of ramblings ignoring that expert pilots,architects and enginners,demolition experts,physists and high ranking military officers and the best pilots in the world dont accpet your fairy tales you present.YOU are the the one that dissmiss everything Dunceman cause as we both know,you are afraid of the truth.none of your ramblings shoots down these facts that you always run away from. you always dismiss them for those ramblings you just posted.

Pilots For 9/11 Truth

Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report

AE911Truth.org

you might actually try and read through this and watch those videos and  these links in there on that bottom link.something as we both know you WONT do.



oh and Jos was talking to paid agent who knows it was an inside job DAWGSHIT so i wasnt talking about YOU Dunceman.you and toto for instance are just loyal Bush dupes who only see what you want to see cause you are scared shitless of the truth as we both know.


and of course according to your logic,all these people are not credible people at all.They are nutcases.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/consp...-say-bad-things-about-america-and-9-11-a.html

your REALLY getting desperate now using popular mechanics as a souce.Popular mechanics has been debunked. you might try reading the book DEBUNKING THE 9/11 DEBUNKING,AN ANSWER TO POPULAR MECHANICS AND OTHER DEFENDERS OF THE OFFICIAL CONSPIRACY THEORY. unlike popular mechanics,that book does edit out well known facts and withold testimonys and evidence. you can pick up up at any library.


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## eots (Jul 26, 2012)

SFC Ollie said:


> And nutjob still has nothing intelligent to say...........



You mean he does not have anything intelligent to say... Ollie


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## LA RAM FAN (Jul 26, 2012)

talking to paid troll gomer huh? Gomer Ollie the one who's a disgrace to his fellow military officers.


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## daveman (Jul 26, 2012)

9/11 inside job said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...


Get a CAT scan.  Seriously.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jul 26, 2012)

daveman said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



comedy gold.priceless.thats how you counter facts? I love it.

as always,Dunceman proves he is a chickenshit coward in denial and scared of the truth so like all Bushs always do,comes back with pathetic one liners instead of trying to refute the information put forth before him cause he knows he cant refute any of it.

I provided information that refutes Duncemans ramblings,when challenged to refute mine,like all Bush dupes,can only resort to pathetic one liners.You and Toto should consider getting married seriously.you two have a lot in common.

I was about to post a couple more videos as well for Dunceman to look at but no sense in doing that now.Like the chickenshit coward he is,as always,he can only throw back pathetic one liners before running off with his tail between his legs.congrats.

You would be laughed out of a debating hall in seconds the way you try and debate.

I'll get a cat scan soon as you check in with a psychiatrist and get some sessions with him to overcome your fear and fright you have about denying reality and government corruption.


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## Indofred (Jul 27, 2012)

daws101 said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > daws101 said:
> ...



You suggested *I* should have entitled *MY* thread with a Jew hating title.

How does that not imply I hate Jews?


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## daveman (Jul 29, 2012)

9/11 inside job said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...


You should put scare quotes around the word "facts" when you use it.  

It's funny the way you retards insist everybody who makes fun of you is scared of you. 

But then, your delusion won't allow anything else, will it?


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## SFC Ollie (Jul 29, 2012)

Still waiting for any form of actual physical evidence that would stand up in court.


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## MHunterB (Jul 29, 2012)

9/11 inside job said:


> talking to paid troll gomer huh? Gomer Ollie the one who's a disgrace to his fellow military *officers*.



* SFC = Sergeant First Class.*


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## SFC Ollie (Jul 29, 2012)

MHunterB said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > talking to paid troll gomer huh? Gomer Ollie the one who's a disgrace to his fellow military *officers*.
> ...



He/she/it has a difficult time with things like that..... Can't even keep the real life Army and a TV Marine apart.


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## Mad Scientist (Jul 29, 2012)

If Ollie had integrity, he would say "Yes. I'm a Non Commissioned Officer so technically he's right".

But as we can see, Ollie has no integrity.


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## MHunterB (Jul 29, 2012)

MS - I take it you have little association with the military.  NCO's are not 'officers', because they have neither 'commission' nor 'warrant'. 

And the person who explained that to me is a recently-retired very senior NCO.

It matters to the military:  'technically' the only officers are CO or WO - every other rank is 'E'.


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## Mad Scientist (Jul 29, 2012)

MHunterB said:


> MS - *I take it you have little association with the military.*  NCO's are not 'officers', because they have neither 'commission' nor 'warrant'.
> 
> And the person who explained that to me is a recently-retired very senior NCO.
> 
> It matters to the military:  'technically' the only officers are CO or WO - every other rank is 'E'.


You take it wrong.

Look up Non Commissioned Officer.


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## daveman (Jul 29, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> > MS - *I take it you have little association with the military.*  NCO's are not 'officers', because they have neither 'commission' nor 'warrant'.
> ...



NCOs don't like being called officers.

I know.  I was one.


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## Obamerican (Jul 29, 2012)

SFC Ollie said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...


Excellent example of what an idiot Rimjob is.


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## SFC Ollie (Jul 29, 2012)

Hey Mad Scientist, why do you neg someone in the coffee shop for a post in here? And why do you have your PM's turned off like a little bitch? You afraid of something?

By the way, No one ever negs in the coffee shop....... It's a refuse that even you are permitted to post in....As long as you understand the simple rules....


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## Toro (Jul 29, 2012)

SFC Ollie said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



9/11 inside nutjob once thought an Onion video was real. He still may. After all, it's on YouTube, so, like, it must be real, right?


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## Mad Scientist (Jul 29, 2012)

SFC Ollie said:


> Hey Mad Scientist, why do you neg someone in the coffee shop for a post in here? And why do you have your PM's turned off like a little bitch? You afraid of something?
> 
> By the way, No one ever negs in the coffee shop....... It's a refuse that even you are permitted to post in....As long as you understand the simple rules....


Calm down *Short Round!* When I neg someone *back* I just go find their last post and neg them there and it just so happened that *your* previous post was in the Coffee shop. 

I do apologize though, I figger that's where you guys do the "Secret Rep Trade" thing so you probably weren't expecting it right?

Now run along *little boy* and start a "whinny rep whore thread" about how someone "disrespected" you and yer service.

Also, I have my PM's turned off so I don't get them from Sandy Vag. If you got something to say, say it here out in the open where everyone can see it.


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## SFC Ollie (Jul 29, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Mad Scientist, why do you neg someone in the coffee shop for a post in here? And why do you have your PM's turned off like a little bitch? You afraid of something?
> ...



Little boy? Damn is that the best you've got? Here I am a Senior NCO retired for nearly 20 years and you call me a little boy?

WTF? You must be what 12? 13?


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## Mad Scientist (Jul 29, 2012)

SFC Ollie said:


> Little boy? Damn is that the best you've got? Here I am a Senior NCO retired for nearly 20 years and you call me a little boy? WTF? You must be what 12? 13?


See? You *always* bring your rank into it because you don't know what to do otherwise. I was referring to your stature. Now either your "long lost brother" (whose pic you posted on another thread) is either 6'5" or you're a midget. And that would explain your Napoleon Complex.

I work with a retired Marine, who also suffered from Napolean Complex, who used to *insist* that he be called "Gunny" . I never did and told him to his face: "You aint a Marine anymore. The UCMJ don't apply here". What could he say? Nothing. He still barks on occasion.

Another guy is a retired Army E-8. He said to me one day; "If we were in the Army and you talked to me like that, I'd have you at a leaning rest" (whatever the fuck that means) I just looked at him and said; "No you wouldn't". No response.

See that's how you guys are. Unless you have your Military rank you guys are just p*ssies like every other poser out there. Like most of those Middle Age phaggots who ride Harleys.

Yeah, in groups of 3 or more you're bad asses. But one-on-one, you're no more bad ass than anyone else. That's what you are Ollie, an Internet Bad Ass!

And now that Western Medicine has hobbled you and is killing you, your bark is *truly* worse than your bite!


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## SFC Ollie (Jul 29, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Little boy? Damn is that the best you've got? Here I am a Senior NCO retired for nearly 20 years and you call me a little boy? WTF? You must be what 12? 13?
> ...



You haven't a fucking clue.
At least I am not ashamed to post pictures of myself, And I'm not afraid of someones PM's.........

I'm 5'5" I never thought of myself as short. I think of myself as me. And no one knows me like I do. And FYI the Marine who wanted to be called Gunny was well within his rights. He earned the title. You haven't earned shit.

And yes I bring my rank up when it fits into the subject or when one of you assholes attack my service...

And it always seems like the conspiracy nutcases who do that.... I wonder, are you all  as afraid of me as you are of the Government?

So fuck you again, and please continue to play...........


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## eots (Jul 29, 2012)

I was Sgt in the kiss army...but I rarely speak of it


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## freedombecki (Jul 29, 2012)

Indofred said:


> U.S. Military Knows Israel did 9/11 - YouTube
> 
> Sorry. I was very tired when I looked at this.


I listened to this and realized, this guy has some head problems. Did he get hit in the head when he was serving?

Because he is talking with a lisp throughout, and there's just something that is not right about this claim, Indofred.

Sorry, I'm not buying it.

Kerplunking this into file 13.


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## freedombecki (Jul 29, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Mad Scientist, why do you neg someone in the coffee shop for a post in here? And why do you have your PM's turned off like a little bitch? You afraid of something?
> ...


Mad Scientist, I've been posting at the Coffee shop since I got here. It's a good place to meet people without the rancor and hostility that's out in the political arena and conspiracy theories where someone might be looking to play with someone else's head by posting a pack of lies that "seem" believable.

Maybe the guy in the OP is in a Drama club somewhere, and his "assignment" is to post a believable conspiracy theory at someone else's board, who knows!

People do and say dumb stuff.

But I just want to let you know, there's no and I do mean absolutely no secret rep area at the Coffee Shop. We're just pals all over. Ollie invited you to come in some time. Why don't you come in and give a presentation for repping newbies at your thread for newbies? There are some great posters there who've earned (the hard way) reps from all over this board for the good ideas and contributions they give. We have lefties, righties, and some who ain't too sure.  All are welcome, except for one thing: No politics, no negging, no threats, no ninnyhammering any political thesis, etc. Try it. You might be surprised. Yes, you might get repped a couple of times, but then it  just settles down to people talking and sharing what happened last week, this morning, half a lifetime ago, etc. Everyone is welcome.


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## daws101 (Jul 30, 2012)

eots said:


> daws101 said:
> 
> 
> > The Truth About 9/11
> ...


how did I know you 'd say that ?
oh yeah... you always say that especially when you have nothing, which is all the time!


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## daws101 (Jul 30, 2012)

Indofred said:


> daws101 said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...


I suggested no such thing..


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## Mr. Jones (Jul 30, 2012)

daws101 said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > daws101 said:
> ...



Fucking liar.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/5686285-post80.html

You trolls need to brief each other before you assume your roles before each shift.


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## daws101 (Jul 30, 2012)

Mr. Jones said:


> daws101 said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...


wrong as always. learn to read!


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## Mr. Jones (Aug 1, 2012)

daws101 said:


> Mr. Jones said:
> 
> 
> > daws101 said:
> ...





> [quote  Originally Posted by Indofred]Quote:-You suggested I should have entitled MY thread with a Jew hating title.





> Quote: Originally Posted by daws101-I suggested no such thing..





daws101 said:


> I would have named this thread JEW HATING TWOOFER MYTHS OF 911.



Like I said,  perhaps you trolls need to brief each other before you assume your roles before each shift. Talk to the other Daws101 that you relieve after his shift, seems like a lack of communication in the disinfo troll cubicles.


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## Indofred (Aug 2, 2012)

SFC Ollie said:


> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...



Then please address me as "Sir".


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## SFC Ollie (Aug 2, 2012)

Indofred said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Mad Scientist said:
> ...



And why would i want to do that?


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## LA RAM FAN (Aug 6, 2012)

Gomer Ollie isnt REALLY retired.He is actually working for a government agency as one of their disinfo operatives that has been paid to come on here and post propaganda and lies about 9/11.

You'll find that out soon enough when he starts blatantly ignoring evidence and facts and starts rambling to try and save face in his posts bringing up things that witnesses said to support the official version and ignoring what other witnesses said that go against the governments version of events as an example.


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## SFC Ollie (Aug 6, 2012)

9/11 inside job said:


> Gomer Ollie isnt REALLY retired.He is actually working for a government agency as one of their disinfo operatives that has been paid to come on here and post propaganda and lies about 9/11.
> 
> You'll find that out soon enough when he starts blatantly ignoring evidence and facts and starts rambling to try and save face in his posts bringing up things that witnesses said to support the official version and ignoring what other witnesses said that go against the governments version of events as an example.




You have to post some facts first..... And as far as not being retired from the military.... You , as normal, haven't a clue.


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## daws101 (Aug 6, 2012)

SFC Ollie said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > Gomer Ollie isnt REALLY retired.He is actually working for a government agency as one of their disinfo operatives that has been paid to come on here and post propaganda and lies about 9/11.
> ...


or fact or evidence!


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## Indofred (Aug 6, 2012)

SFC Ollie said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...



I outrank you.


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## daws101 (Aug 6, 2012)

Indofred said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...


whats outrank?


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## Indofred (Aug 6, 2012)

freedombecki said:


> Maybe the guy in the OP is in a Drama club somewhere, and his "assignment" is to post a believable conspiracy theory at someone else's board, who knows!.



I was always told to think, not blindly accept.
Why don't you question something that has more holes than my old socks and smells a lot worse?



I'm not generally into conspiracy theories but this story has so many holes, it needs a closer look.
The bit that gets me the most is the pentagon.
There must be hundreds of cameras around that place but not a single photo of an aircraft except something with totally the wrong shaped nose cone in a blurry image.

The airspeed was reported to be 350mph or 563kph
That divides down to 156m/s
The aircraft, a Boeing 757, is 47+ metres long.









Note the time stamp on the images (Wrong date and time - maybe the security didn't know how to set up their video machine). Not even a second apart.
This bit is a deliberately understated guess. Understated to allow for error in the favour of the official US story.
The distance between the building and the edge of frame in those photos is 40m.
We know the camera was running at a minimum of 2 frames per second as there are two frames with the same time stamp.
That means a camera, recording an object moving at 156m/s over 40 m would see a large part of that that object at least once.
In fact, the building is 23.5 metres tall so the real distance is closer to 120 metres
That, with the massive inaccuracy in favour of the official story is, 0.25 of a second for the nose to travel but a further 0.3 of a second before the tail enters the building. 0.55 of a second with a frame every 0.5 second.
Where is the aircraft?


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## SFC Ollie (Aug 6, 2012)

Indofred said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...



I'm sorry, I don't see how that is possible.

SFC was my rank, now it's my tittle. I trust you know the difference.

Unless of course you happen to be the Ohio State Commander of the American Legion, or maybe the National Commander..... But then again even as a Post Commander my voice is just one voice in the post, equal to every other members.....

So, outrank me, no you don't..........

Might have at one time. I wouldn't know.


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## SFC Ollie (Aug 6, 2012)

Indofred said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe the guy in the OP is in a Drama club somewhere, and his "assignment" is to post a believable conspiracy theory at someone else's board, who knows!.
> ...



How many eyewitnesses did you say saw the plane? Oh that's right you've dismissed all of them....


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## daveman (Aug 6, 2012)

9/11 inside job said:


> Gomer Ollie isnt REALLY retired.He is actually working for a government agency as one of their disinfo operatives that has been paid to come on here and post propaganda and lies about 9/11.
> 
> You'll find that out soon enough when he starts blatantly ignoring evidence and facts and starts rambling to try and save face in his posts bringing up things that witnesses said to support the official version and ignoring what other witnesses said that go against the governments version of events as an example.


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## daveman (Aug 6, 2012)

Indofred said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...



I retired as an E-6.

So fuck off, _sir_, you retard.


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## Indofred (Aug 7, 2012)

daws101 said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...



He was a Sergeant First Class. A non commissioned officer.
I have the Queen's commission, retired, of course.
Even in someone else's army, protocol demands a salute.

If your arsehole enough to keep bleating on about your rank.


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## Indofred (Aug 7, 2012)

daveman said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...



An enlisted rank.
That would get you a trip to the the CO's office.
As a matter of interest, E6 could also be a petty officer.
Petty seems to fit rather well.


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## Indofred (Aug 7, 2012)

SFC Ollie said:


> How many eyewitnesses did you say saw the plane? Oh that's right you've dismissed all of them....



Yes. The BBC had pictures.
Wrong number of engines, but pictures.

White Plane, BBC, 10:51 9/11 - YouTube!

Have more

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSe1OERJOyE&feature=related]CNN Discusses Mysterious White Plane Over D.C. on 9/11 - YouTube[/ame]

While we're at it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xtEJ4zrIPM]9/11 Truth: Pentagon Eyewitness Bob Pugh Tells His Story - YouTube[/ame]

Hole too small.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0R8b3MuFxk&feature=related]Undeniable Proof a Plane did NOT Hit the Pentagon on 9/11 ~ 1/8 - YouTube[/ame]

That leaves us with pilots saying it was the best part of impossible, eye witnesses who say the government version is wrong and a hole that probably wasn't caused by a large aircraft.

Surly that deserves further investigation.


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## daws101 (Aug 7, 2012)

Indofred said:


> daws101 said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...


isn't  out rank  two words?
or is english your second language?


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## daws101 (Aug 7, 2012)

Indofred said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe the guy in the OP is in a Drama club somewhere, and his "assignment" is to post a believable conspiracy theory at someone else's board, who knows!.
> ...


 you are full of shit.
those models of security VCR'S were notorious for losing time ,the clock circuitry was faulity.
also you're wrong about the frame rate, it's 1 frame per sec.
the normal  FPS IS  for l NTSC is 29.97 fps. 
so at 1fps you've  lost 28.97 frames .
that makes your calculations invalid.
the plane you ask?: http://rense.com/general32/phot.htm


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## eots (Aug 7, 2012)

daws101 said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > freedombecki said:
> ...



oh really so do you have a link to these so called facts about the camera security systems at the pentagon and their capabilities ?


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## SFC Ollie (Aug 7, 2012)

Indofred said:


> daws101 said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...



You may have outranked me at one time, but as I said my former rank is now my tittle.

You outrank no one.........


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## eots (Aug 7, 2012)

SFC Ollie said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > daws101 said:
> ...



alight already you two...save it for "the terrorist"


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## SFC Ollie (Aug 7, 2012)

Well, another one who believes that if it's on a youtube video it must be the truth.....


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## daws101 (Aug 7, 2012)

eots said:


> daws101 said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...


look them up!(they may not be on youtube!)


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## Indofred (Aug 8, 2012)

daws101 said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > daws101 said:
> ...



I posted them.
Two frames have the same time stamp. That means at least two frames per second.
As for the distances, read the post and google the rest.
It's not hard.
As for frame rate in the top quote. Remember many security cams are time lapse to save on tape space so frame rate can be very low.


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## Indofred (Aug 8, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvVAYjd7DYw]CNN, Live, 9/11/2001, The Pentagon, "No 757!" - YouTube[/ame]

Note where the reporter mention no large parts.

No large holes either.






And no marks where the wings and engines would have hit.

Now we'll pop a plane over the hole after the collapse.






Nope, still doesn't fit.

This building was hit by a missile.






A fireball of this size is generated by such a missile.






Now some pictures of other aircraft after hitting buildings.

A smaller fighter aircraft after a high speed impact.
No visible identifiable parts?






This one crashed into a building in Lagos.






No visible identifiable parts?

Even the holes in the official story are the wrong size.


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## daws101 (Aug 8, 2012)

Indofred said:


> daws101 said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


sorry wrong again! WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT CAMERAS BUT THE RECORDING DEVICE. the time stamp is wrong.
besides as explained if the were the same second (even at two fps all you wouild see is a slightly longer  plane image  and a slightly shorter impact image.
here's the raw footage [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaCaldJGjmo]Flight 77 Hits Pentagon (camera 2) - YouTube[/ame] 

all you need to do is count the seconds to see that they are 1fps.
 the clips is 15 seconds long..
if the clip was running at the standard NTSC  29.97 fps. 
the images would be much smoother. 

 as it is  you've lost 13.97 fps for 15 seconds


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## daws101 (Aug 8, 2012)

Indofred said:


> CNN, Live, 9/11/2001, The Pentagon, "No 757!" - YouTube
> 
> Note where the reporter mention no large parts.
> 
> ...


still wrong! the holes are not from the body of the aircraft but the engines and landing gear Assembly!


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## SFC Ollie (Aug 8, 2012)

daws101 said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > CNN, Live, 9/11/2001, The Pentagon, "No 757!" - YouTube
> ...




And the blast.


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## eots (Aug 8, 2012)

SFC Ollie said:


> daws101 said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...



lol


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## daws101 (Aug 8, 2012)

eots said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > daws101 said:
> ...


typical !


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## Indofred (Aug 8, 2012)

daws101 said:


> all you need to do is count the seconds to see that they are 1fps.
> the clips is 15 seconds long..
> if the clip was running at the standard NTSC  29.97 fps.
> the images would be much smoother.
> ...





> That divides down to 156m/s
> The aircraft, a Boeing 757, is 47+ metres long.



Distance seen by camera = greater than 120m + 47m of aircraft.
Minimum 170 m at a speed of 156m/s
1fps = at least a large part of the aircraft visible in at least one shot.

And that's just one camera. Are you seriously trying to tell me the Pentagon can't afford 2 on what is supposed to be a top security building?

So, who can explain why no large parts were left (unlike all other crashes) and why there was no damage either side of a hole that's far too small for an aircraft strike?

The story stinks.


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## SFC Ollie (Aug 8, 2012)

Do we really have to go through posting all those pictures of plane wreckage at the pentagon again?


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## daws101 (Aug 8, 2012)

Indofred said:


> daws101 said:
> 
> 
> > all you need to do is count the seconds to see that they are 1fps.
> ...


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## Indofred (Aug 9, 2012)

daws101 said:


> *still wrong! the holes are not from the body of the aircraft but the engines and landing gear Assembly*!



So where did the body of the aircraft disappear to?
Vaporised on impact like the Sukhoi that hit a mountain in Indonesia a couple of months ago?
















The "Aircraft" hit at ground level but there was no damage to the grass.
Explain that one.


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## SFC Ollie (Aug 9, 2012)




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## Indofred (Aug 9, 2012)

SFC Ollie said:


>



And the rest of it?

All other crashes, even into the side of a mountain, has large wreckage but none here.
Please explain why the hole is so small while you're at it.


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## SFC Ollie (Aug 9, 2012)

Indofred said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



It doesn't matter how many times the size of the hole is explained you guys will ignore it. Tell me was that plane that hit the mountain flown directly into it at full speed with full gas tanks on purpose? Or did the pilot try to pull up?  Don't know do you?

Ever seen the demo of a jet fighter being slammed into a reinforced wall? Nothing left.... Do I need to waste my time finding that video for you? No, I think not because you will ignore it anyway because it doesn't fit in with what you want to be true.....


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## Mr. Jones (Aug 9, 2012)

SFC Ollie said:


>


 Those pics do not prove that a Boeing 757 indeed was what hit the Pentagon.

I don't think a missile hit the Pentagon, but I am not convinced it was flight 77 either.
They say that the plane disintegrated for the most part, and that it hasn't been positively identified as 77, but miraculously all the passengers were ID'd through DNA?
So human DNA can not be scorched and disintegrated, like they say the plane was for the most part, and still the victims were all  positively identified???

As far as the hole goes(12ft 4) , the Boeing 757 is not simply a 13ft wide cylinder, however, a Boeing 757 is a 13ft wide, 155 ft long cylinder with a tail fin that extends 45 ft into the air. Add to that the fact that there are two 6 ton steel engines slung under each wing about 6 feet to each side of the cylinder body. The wings extend out on each side for 50ft + making for a total aircraft width of 125 feet, a total length of 155 ft and a maximum height of 45 ft. 

The damage doesn't seem to support a 757 crashing into it. We must consider the forward momentum of those two, inescapable, 6 TON steel engines 
The two 6 ton engines were NOT dropped off on the lawn, and which, together, are as wide as the 13ft wide cylinder body!


The cylinder body is indeed 13ft 6in high,  the fact that the engines extend 5 feet below the body and over six feet to either side can't be left out, meaning that, if the aircraft were actually able to successfully fly at just 1 inch above the ground (highly unlikely), the height of the cylinder body above the ground would be at least 18 ft 6 inches! Let us repeat that: 
if a Boeing 757 were actually able to fly at just 1 inch above the ground, the height of the 13 ft cylinder body would be at least 18 feet 6 inches! Now, add to that the fact that the plane also includes those two bothersome 6 TON engines, AND a tail fin that protrudes 25 feet above the top of the cylinder body making for a total aircraft height of just less than 40 feet with wheels up. Obviously then, we can reasonably expect that the damage to the facade of the Pentagon would have extended up to this height IF it was a 757 that hit the building. 

However, according to the official Pentagon report:

    "The height of the damage to the facade of the building was much less than the height of the aircraft's tail. At approximately 45 ft, the tail height was nearly as tall as the first four floors of the building. Obvious visible damage extended only over the lowest two floors, to approximately 25 ft above grade." 

_Instead, we must give in to emotional blackmail and then engage in implausible mental gymnastics to try to explain how a 757 really could have been involved in the Pentagon attack and all because the US government says so - a government that has made lies the core aspect of its domestic and foreign policy from day one._

the large aircraft has been reduced to a mere 12ft 4 in wide cylinder..
the official Pentagon Building Performance Report stated that:

    "The projected width [of damage to the facade] was approximately 90 ft, which is substantially less than the 125 ft wingspan of the aircraft" 

Indeed, but there is no explanation of why there is no damage to the facade where the wings should logically have struck. Could it be that an aircraft with the wingspan of a 757 was not involved? 

The Pentagon report also made note of the fact that:

    "With the possible exception of the immediate vicinity of the fuselage's entry point at column line 14, essentially all interior impact damage was inflicted in the first story: The aircraft seems for the most part to have slipped between the first-floor slab on grade and the second floor." 

Given the height of just the fuselage leaving out the 25 feet of tail fin, how is it possible that the immediate damage and the debris of the plane were "largely confined to the first floor"? And remember, we are talking here about a scenario where the plane is flying at just one inch above the ground! 

What is more, evidence from photos of the site show cable spools that were clearly untouched by any incoming aircraft, suggesting that the aircraft would have to have been flying above the maximum height of the spools (some 6 feet) when it hit the Pentagon. In this case, the damage should have been almost entirely to the second floor! 

Of course, this is not the case, which leaves us with the logical deduction that it is highly improbable that a 757 was involved in the attack on the Pentagon, and that a much smaller and more nimble aircraft was used. 

how much credit are we going to give to brick and concrete that has been reinforced with relatively thin steel bars? Is such a wall indestructible? If the tail fin and wings of a Boeing 757 traveling at 400mph+ hit such a wall, could we at least expect them to leave a dent? A little scrape even? 

After coming up with bizarre explanations for the lack of damage and debris, we are then forced to deal with the fact that, while the damage to the Pentagon facade is not consistent with the impact of a large commercial airliner, the damage to the interior of the Pentagon is even less so. 

how did a hollow tube, made of mostly aluminum, manage to punch through the Pentagon?
So which is it? You can make the argument that a 757 was so flimsy that the Pentagon facade was relatively undamaged by the impact, or you argue that the weight and speed of the aircraft was such that it penetrated 3 rings of the building, but you can't have it both ways! Any theory that attempts to reconcile these irreconcilable claims is untenable.

You people believe seriously far out explanations to explain how a 757 could have caused the damage to the interior of the Pentagon in spite of the fact that most of it "just shredded into chunks" and was scattered all over the lawn.

The pics of wheels and landing gear etc.. could come from a different aircraft so
the alleged "evidence" of debris from a Boeing 757 in the above pictures is inconclusive. 

The round hole that was left in ring C is one of the most intriguing aspects of the Pentagon attack. While we might assume that it is unofficially claimed that one of the engines of Flight 77 made this hole (the engine being the only part of a 757 that could possibly be strong enough to pass through three rings of the Pentagon, never mind that it left no evidence of its *entry* on the exterior of the building)

A disk that is a verifiable part of the engine of the aircraft that hit the Pentagon was found at the front of the building, not in the third ring. 

Terry Mitchell, Chief of the Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense (Public Affairs) was one of the first on the scene at this "punch out" point. In a DOD news briefing about the reconstruction of the Pentagon he stated:

 "This is a hole in -- there was a punch-out. They suspect that this was where a part of the aircraft came through this hole, although I didn't see any evidence of the aircraft down there." 

Later in the same briefing when referring to the same hole Mitchell must have realised his mistake and stated:

 "This pile here is all Pentagon metal. None of that is aircraft whatsoever. As you can see, they've punched a hole in here. This was punched by the rescue workers to clean it out". 

So which was it? Was the hole punched out by some part of the aircraft or by rescue workers? Was the pile of stuff aircraft debris, or was it "all Pentagon metal" as Terry Mitchell says? 
Look at the picture of the hole. We don't need the contradictory statements of Mr. Mitchell to conclude that, due to the fact that the debris is on the outside of the building, the hole was punched out from the inside, yet how could it have been "punched out" by rescue workers when there are scorch marks at the top of the hole on the outside? Did the rescue workers punch out this hole when the fire was still raging inside? Hardly likely. Limiting air flow is part of fighting a fire. You don't make holes to let in more air while you are trying to extinguish a fire.

The engines and types of engines and the APU found at the scene are also controversial, and the likelihood that the APU disk in the photo IS from a Rolls Royce engine, but NOT from the APU of the 757 as stated by the Honeywell expert.
It has been stated that the APU is far too small to be the disk from one of the 757's main engines, given that they are between 6 and 7 ft in diameter. The disk on the AE 3007H however is a little over 3 ft in diameter, and the disk in the photo is a very good match for that of a AE 3007H, the engine used on a Global Hawk but never on a Boeing 757. 

While there can be no definitive statements made on the matter, the available evidence would seem to suggest that the engine disk in the FEMA photos is probably too small to be part of a 757 engine and, contrary to what has been said, according to a Honeywell expert that makes the APU for the 757, it is definitely not a part of a 757's APU. So what is it? 
It could very well be part of a Global Hawk AE3007H engine. 

Damaged light poles are also a source of controversy, but was it a 757 that did this damage or another type of craft? We aren't saying that a plane did not hit the Pentagon. Hardly anyone IS saying that. The only thing at issue is what KIND of plane was it?

And the black boxes...Flight data recorders were found at the Pentagon on September 14th 2001. On Feb. 25, 2002, FBI Director Robert Mueller stated that Flight 77's data recorder provided altitude, speed, headings and other information, but the voice recorder contained nothing useful. 
Later, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld said that the data on the cockpit voice data recorder was unrecoverable. No further explanation was given for these contradictory statements. 

If the cockpit voice data really was unrecoverable, it would, allegedly, be the first time in aviation history a solid-state data recorder (the type used on Flight 77) was unrecoverable after a crash.

From a Scientific American feature article lauding the "Better Black Box" in their [WWW] September 2000 issue:
_
    Nearly 100,000 flight recorders have been installed in commercial aircraft over the past four decades. The prices of the latest models generally range from $10,000 to $20,000. Their survival rate has greatly improved in recent years as the FAA has raised the certification requirements. Although older recorders using magnetic tape were susceptible to fire damage, no solid-state device has been destroyed in an accident to date. _

And, there were at least four video cameras capable of recording the attack on the Pentagon. 
One was on the roof of the Sheraton Hotel, a second was at a gas station across the road from the Pentagon itself, the third belonged to the Virginia Department of Transportation and was stationed on route 27, which the aircraft flew over. The fourth was the Pentagon's security camera stationed at the opposite one end of the façade from where the plane struck. 

The footage from the cameras at the Sheraton, the gas station and on route 27 were confiscated by the FBI and have never been released. The only footage made available to the public was that recorded by the Pentagon's security camera. According to the Washington Times however, both the DOJ and the FBI denied responsibility for releasing the footage from the Pentagon's security camera-

_    "The Pentagon has not released any video or any photos from security cameras from the terrorist attack of Sept. 11," said Pentagon spokeswoman Cheryl Irwin. A spokeswoman at the Department of Justice, which reviews taped and photographed evidence obtained by federal security cameras, said she could not comment on whether the photos are legitimate, adding that the photos "were not disseminated by the FBI or the Department of Justice." _

Of course, a simple denial does not mean that someone within the DOJ or the DOD or the FBI did not release the footage to the public - after all, we are dealing with a massive 9/11 conspiracy and the footage is from the Pentagon's very own security camera. We can assume with a reasonable degree of certainty therefore, that someone within one of the arms of the American military/ political/ industrial complex released the footage and then denied that they did so, and for a very specific reason. 

Look again at the image from the Pentagon Security camera of the plane approaching the building. Ask yourself the question: where is the Boeing 757-200 in this image? 

_Note that the time stamp displays a date and time of September 12th at 5.37:19 pm. The DOD has offered no reason for this discrepancy, which is understandable since they claim to have no knowledge about who released the images. In the footage, the progression of seconds jumps from 19, where it starts, to 21 and then on to 22 and 23 where it ends, meaning that one second and an undetermined number of frames have been cut from the film. No explanation has ever been offered by any official sources as to why this video footage has clearly been "doctored", why one second and several frames have been removed - frames that would likely show just what it was that struck the Pentagon. Of course, this is very convenient for exponents of the official story. The footage shows something flying into the Pentagon and exploding, and since we were all immediately told that that "something" was a 757, the case is closed, right_?

Quite apart from the fact that the doctoring of the video strongly suggests that someone released this footage in an attempt to provide "evidence" to the public that a 757 hit the Pentagon, while at the same time removing the incriminating frames and denying the public the right to actually see what it was, in the images above we see a stream of white smoke that is entirely inconsistent with a commercial jet aircraft.

If a 757 really did hit the Pentagon then there should be no need for outlandish theories. The evidence SHOULD be all there, and it should be a breeze to present facts that would quickly dismiss any attempts to suggest otherwise. 
But we see that this is not the case and in fact the exact opposite is true! They are finding it very difficult to prove something that should be easily provable if the evidence was there for ALL to see.

They are suggesting that, on impact with the Pentagon, all of the parts of a 757 broke into pieces, flew everywhere as confetti, then somehow formed themselves into a 9 foot wide 20 feet tall concentrated column of energy (or water-like substance) that broke through 5 walls of the Pentagon leaving a neat 8 ft by 12 ft round hole in the final 6th wall. This is insane, and the evidence does not coincide with observed results.

Then there are the conflicting witness testimonies that one can use for both sides of the controversy...But really the most important thing to look at is the big picture and how the hell such a thing was allowed or made to have occurred in the first place, and that takes us to the NORAD and the terror drills, the radar screens and the orders to stand down by Cheney, the "security at the airports, the identities and the capabilities of the "hijackers" and so much more that had to have happened and made possible for this to happen in the first place.

Bottom line is that the 9-11 attacks were facilitated by rogue elements within top echelon positions of the presidential administrations of both parties, and strong evidence to suggest that a nation state like Israel and its sayanim were involved.
A vast amount of people were not needed to be a part of it or involved in the loop, and everyday Joes who were just doing their jobs were unwittingly used.


Evidence That a Frozen Fish Didn't Impact the Pentagon on 9-11 and Neither Did a Boeing 757 -- Puppet Masters -- Sott.net


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## daws101 (Aug 9, 2012)

Mr. Jones said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...




edited for sheer stupidity!
and no evidence just a yammering butt hole


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## Indofred (Aug 9, 2012)

> =Mr. Jones;5778844how did a hollow tube, made of mostly aluminum, manage to punch through the Pentagon?



Very nice post but this bit needs a little something.

That bit is the only possible and reasonable part of the whole story.
I have, in days before I was old and fat, put my fist through 3 breeze blocks at once.
A soft object, with momentum can smash it's way through a lot of things.

However - that detail does nothing to make the official story seem even slightly true.


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## daws101 (Aug 9, 2012)

Indofred said:


> > =Mr. Jones;5778844how did a hollow tube, made of mostly aluminum, manage to punch through the Pentagon?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


denial at it's finest!


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## Indofred (Aug 9, 2012)

daws101 said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > > =Mr. Jones;5778844how did a hollow tube, made of mostly aluminum, manage to punch through the Pentagon?
> ...



Try posting actual evidence to back up your quip.
Please explain why there are no marks on the wall, how the damage was low when the fence was high, where all the large aircraft parts were and so on.


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## daws101 (Aug 9, 2012)

Indofred said:


> daws101 said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...


no need to..
it's all been explained you just don't like the answer.


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## SFC Ollie (Aug 9, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM8E-CogkYE]Airplane crashes into a concrete wall, F4 Phantom Jet - YouTube[/ame]


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## Uncensored2008 (Aug 9, 2012)

Indofred said:


> Sorry. I was very tired when I looked at this.



Ever notice commies tend to be JOOOO haters?

Actually, leftists in general are Antisemitic scum - for the most part.


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## daws101 (Aug 9, 2012)

SFC Ollie said:


> Airplane crashes into a concrete wall, F4 Phantom Jet - YouTube


brace for dumb ass comment in....5....4...3.....2....1


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## Uncensored2008 (Aug 9, 2012)

Mr. Jones said:


> Hmm...Let's see, what are the chances the moon is really made of cheese...as opposed to Israel and the Mossad being involved in the 9-11 attacks...*All things* considered....I think it more likely the latter.



No, the likelihood of either is about the same.



> To compare the 2 shows your level of ignorance.



Gosh, one can be a Nazi or ignorant - no middle ground with you fucknuts.....

Allahu Akbar, eh motherfucker?


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## daws101 (Aug 9, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry. I was very tired when I looked at this.
> ...


just the dumb ass comment I predicted!


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## Uncensored2008 (Aug 9, 2012)

daws101 said:


> just the dumb ass comment I predicted!



Which part, that Indofred is a commie, or that he is a Joo hater?

You're kind of a dull witted sot, aren't you?

Say, do you claim DA JOOOOZZZZ did it too?


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## daws101 (Aug 9, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> daws101 said:
> 
> 
> > just the dumb ass comment I predicted!
> ...


just the dumb ass comment I predicted!

as it had nothing to do with the topic!
and yes you are dull witted!


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## Indofred (Aug 10, 2012)

SFC Ollie said:


> Airplane crashes into a concrete wall, F4 Phantom Jet - YouTube



I'm so glad you posted that to back up my position.
A small aircraft, travelling at a far greater speed and hitting an object designed to absorb impact, left debris but a larger aircraft left a hole in a wall that was too small for the aircraft to fit into.


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## Indofred (Aug 10, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry. I was very tired when I looked at this.
> ...



I'm politically Conservative (Note the large "C and don't hate anyone.

Please quote any post of mine where I support communists or hatred towards Jews.

When you've finished searching and can't find one, an apology will be accepted.


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## courseofhistory (Aug 10, 2012)

Oh, brother!!


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## Uncensored2008 (Aug 10, 2012)

daws101 said:


> just the dumb ass comment I predicted!
> 
> as it had nothing to do with the topic!
> and yes you are dull witted!



You drink a great deal, don't you?


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## Uncensored2008 (Aug 10, 2012)

Indofred said:


> I'm politically Conservative (Note the large "C and don't hate anyone.
> 
> Please quote any post of mine where I support communists or hatred towards Jews.
> 
> When you've finished searching and can't find one, an apology will be accepted.



You've been in this forum for what, about 4 months? In that time you have posted radical left and now you are here blaming DA JOOOZZZ for 9/11 with Nazi propaganda.

Fucking moron.


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## daws101 (Aug 10, 2012)

Indofred said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Airplane crashes into a concrete wall, F4 Phantom Jet - YouTube
> ...


since the body of the aircraft did not make that hole and the air craft was traveling at max speed you have no position to bolster !


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## daws101 (Aug 10, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> daws101 said:
> 
> 
> > just the dumb ass comment I predicted!
> ...


nope never have. more proof that you are a dumb ass!


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## Uncensored2008 (Aug 10, 2012)

daws101 said:


> nope never have. more proof that you are a dumb ass!



You stick to crack cocaine, then?


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## daws101 (Aug 10, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> daws101 said:
> 
> 
> > You drink a great deal, don't you?
> ...



You stick to crack cocaine, then?[/QUOTE]wrong again! speed drugs were never my style!
besides me doing drugs or drinking to excess are no excuse for your dumbfuckery...


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## Uncensored2008 (Aug 10, 2012)

daws101 said:


> wrong again! speed drugs were never my style!
> besides me doing drugs or drinking to excess are no excuse for your dumbfuckery...



I think you've got your dumbfucks mixed up, sparky.

The question is the root cause of your confusion: drink, drugs, head injury, or perhaps a birth defect?


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## daws101 (Aug 10, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> daws101 said:
> 
> 
> > wrong again! speed drugs were never my style!
> ...


as I'm not confused nor have any of the listed complaints.. the confusion is all yours   

now might be a good time to back out gracefully....


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## Mr. Jones (Aug 10, 2012)

daws101 said:


> indofred said:
> 
> 
> > daws101 said:
> ...






daws101 said:


> denial at it's finest!


 Back at you Dawgshit..


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## daws101 (Aug 10, 2012)

Mr. Jones said:


> daws101 said:
> 
> 
> > indofred said:
> ...


mr ignorance speaks.
how can I deny what's not there..... you know.... like evidence.


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## Uncensored2008 (Aug 10, 2012)

daws101 said:


> as I'm not confused nor have any of the listed complaints.. the confusion is all yours
> 
> now might be a good time to back out gracefully....



ROFL

Ah daws, ever the arrogant moron.

The problem with you is that you operate from an ad hominem perspective. Since I've spanked you in the past, you view me as the enemy, never grasping that you are arguing the same side of the question as I.

Thus my conclusion that you are drunk, stoned, or simply stupid.


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## SFC Ollie (Aug 10, 2012)

Indofred said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Airplane crashes into a concrete wall, F4 Phantom Jet - YouTube
> ...



What are you babbling about? The only thing on that F4 that wasn't vaporized was the wing tips that stuck out to far to make solid contact with the wall. A reinforced concrete wall to simulate what is around a nuclear reactor. And let me remind you the 2 planes were traveling at about the same speed and the one that hit the reinforced wall of the pentagon had probably 5 times or more the amount of gas in it's tanks.....

You crack me up.........


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## daws101 (Aug 10, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> daws101 said:
> 
> 
> > as I'm not confused nor have any of the listed complaints.. the confusion is all yours
> ...


mr hubris rears his mis shapen head.
what it like to be so wrong all the time, you've never spanked me but I'll let you live with that illusion.
what's even more Ironic is your imaginary enemy  status ..you're irritating but your entertainment value far outweighs that..


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## Indofred (Aug 10, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > I'm politically Conservative (Note the large "C and don't hate anyone.
> ...



You really don't read all that well, do you?
I'm about as radical left as Maggie Thatcher and I'm saying there is more to 9/11 than meets the eye.
I'm unsure who did what but there may have been Israeli involvement.
What is for sure - there is far more to the story than the official version.


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## Indofred (Aug 10, 2012)

Indofred said:


> U.S. Military Knows Israel did 9/11 - YouTube
> 
> Sorry. I was very tired when I looked at this.



I'm assured by GHook93 in a red bricked message, this post proves I'm a "homo" and, "Muslims day of recogning will come! Allah will be wiped off the face of the Earth!".

That sort of behaviour and attitude is why so many hate the US.

Hate creates more hate.


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## ERGO (Aug 12, 2012)

SFC Ollie said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...



What is known from the FDR (Flight Data Recorder) re-creation the N.T.S.B. has provided, is that this plane executed a very high speed descent at a vertical descent rate that was at the very least, 4,400 feet per minute, easily 3,000 feet per minute faster in the dive than normal landing aircraft typical do on their final approaches to a runway.

This equated to a terminal velocity in the end of more than 150 knots beyond the never exceed speed for this aircraft at this altitude. Oh, I know, I have seen in the blogosphere the &#8216;hogwash, these planes fly at 585 miles an hour all day long&#8217; said over and over again, so therefore this speed limit we cite clearly must be &#8216;wrong&#8217; and not correct. Is it?

The sad reality for those same people who cite this 585 miles an hour speed, is that this speed can only be achieved and maintained in less dense air, at very high altitudes.

Down low, in very dense air with significantly higher drag coefficients applicable to the plane down so low, the plane&#8217;s cannot achieve these speeds. And the only limit is not just the drag limitation, but the fact that with the increase in speed in a banked turn, comes the increased force of gravity or &#8216;G&#8217; forces. On September 11th., this aircraft pulled &#8216;6&#8217; G&#8217;s on it&#8217;s turn into the building that day, at a speed more than 150 knots beyond it&#8217;s design limits at this altitude.

I know this because Boeing was called and asked if these impossible speeds were even possible at these altitudes. Their answer, was a laughable; &#8220;Uh, no!&#8221; by their spokesperson.

They, the supposed hijackers, executed this high speed turn and somehow managed not to lose control of this plane in a region of it&#8217;s control capabilities that would absolutely mandate that the pilot have exceptional flying skill to do this maneuver without losing control of this aircraft. Do you still believe that Hani Hanjour was in the cockpit flying this plane now? That is a stretch, in any reasonable persons estimation to still believe that, if we can trust ANY of the data the N.T.S.B. released to us from the FDR on that aircraft. But this was not the end of the superb airmanship exhibited by Hani that morning. He got better at it!

*What is so much more impressive is that Hani flew the plane so low that he clipped &#8216;6&#8217; light poles on the approach to the building at 460 plus knots, but when he did this, the leading edges of the wings did not shed a single piece, nor were the fuel tanks ruptured, which at that time were more or less full of highly flammable JET A fuel.*

What is even more phenomenal, is this aircraft was flown down in a region less than ½ wingspan from the ground, known to any experienced pilot as &#8216;ground effect&#8217; region or zone.

The importance of knowing this, is that no airplane at full throttle flown in ground effect, would want to continue to descend further. Matter of fact, at 465 knots, the plane would have, without full nose down pitch (which the flight data recorder shows was not the case) would have been required to overcome the &#8216;ground effect&#8217; cushion and lift coefficient going on, and the plane would have had no choice but to climb.

To force it into the building more or less at the base of the wall where it hit, on the ground floor level, the hijackers would have had to be using FULL NOSE DOWN PITCH to do this.

Not true, says the FDR (Flight Data Recorder) data given to us by the N.T.S.B. No aircraft in GROUND EFFECT wants to descend further into it at high speed. They all want to climb and even with 10 or more degrees of commanded nose down pitch, a plane of that class would still want to climb out of ground effect due to a huge surplus of lift it was generating. Any pilot wants to challenge this, be my guest. 

*Simply is not disputable here. It cannot be done. This particular aerodynamic fact is irrefutably the most damning road block to the whole cockamamie story about the final portion of this outrageous flight.*

http://911justicehalifax.wordpress.com/category/9-11-the-official-account-of-the-pentagon-attack-is-a-fantasy/


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## ERGO (Aug 12, 2012)

So, on September 11, 2001, what took place, concerning the Pentagon, was a plane that was not a scheduled air carrier flight, per the Bureau of Transportation Statistics or BTS database, departed Boston&#8217;s Logan Field from a departure gate that does not match the coordinates transmitted by the ACARS system, as well as stored in the provided by the N.T.S.B., flight data recorder records, on that non-scheduled American Airlines flight, aka &#8216;FLT 77&#8217; per the government&#8217;s submission, and this plane left Boston&#8217;s Logan Airport with a hijacker on board who was capable of flying a very sophisticated and complex airplane that the average pilot in the F.A.A. pilot registry could probably not really fly with such precision. This plane took off, climbed to it&#8217;s cruise altitude, and then over W. Virginia, was hijacked in 3 minutes time, and then executed a &#8216;standard rate&#8217; turn *which no hijacker would have performed with such precision,* and immediately turned inbound to the perfect heading that would take it directly to the Pentagon, even though for hijackers to do this, would have meant they would have had to know exactly where the aircraft was immediately  and I do mean, IMMEDIATELY and then have the requisite knowledge of how to re-program the complicated FMS computers in the aircraft to display target area data to them, because as you might have guessed, they did not bring their own GPS system with them on the planes that would have given them immediate positional information as well as a much more immediate way of turning the plane onto a magnetic heading that would take it to Washington, D.C. from that nice precise standard rate turnaround in the skies over West Virginia. 

*What was more alarming that day is that during the &#8216;3&#8217; minute hijacking interval, neither the cockpit door opened (reported via the Digital Flight Data Acquisition Unit or DFDAU as it is known as) and the autopilot did not disengage.* Now imagine yourself being Captain Chuck Burlingame and his copilot, sitting in their seats, when these hijackers slid under the door crack on the floor and re-constituted themselves as full fledged box-cutter wielding terrorists, who then proceeded to cut the heads off these two airmen who&#8217;s job is to protect their aircraft and it&#8217;s passengers at all costs. *Neither of these guys were 98 pound weaklings, yet in three minutes they had been incapacitated and were out of their seats without touching either the yokes or the rudders, which would have immediately DISENGAGED the aircraft&#8217;s autopilot system which was flying the machine at that time. *The plane did not yaw, roll, pitch or otherwise change any flight parameter but remained perfectly on course, and for some reason, two minutes later the hijackers finally decided to turn OFF the transponder to make it a bit harder for ATC to be positively sure this plane was the same one they were watching before the hijacking took place. Now, one more thing you need to know is that for either of the flight crew to either push the talk button on the yokes or to change the transponder code to one that tells the ATC personnel monitoring the flight that they were in a &#8216;hijack&#8217; situation, would have taken mere seconds to do. Yet, this was not done. And the autopilot did not disengage though it is presumed the two pilots would have resisted and fought for their very lives and at least kicked the rudder pedals and or moved the yokes. Yet they did not do any of these things. Merely holding the push to talk button and screaming whilst having one&#8217;s head cut off would have gotten someone&#8217;s attention, I do think. Too many ways the crew could send a duress message to the ATC en route centers, and not once was this attempted. Why? The best and most reasonable reason is that these were not hijacked planes at all, but planes flown by military personnel or crews who thought they were innocently participating in the drills. And as such, these would NOT have been passenger flights, as it is illegal to use passengers in military exercises under any circumstances, due to the risk involved. This is another clue that points to the fact that no hijacking took place in this aircraft at all, because had that been the case, they had plenty of time to use a duress system to alert ATC that they were under attack in that cockpit.

In any case, the precision turn executed and the immediate orientation onto the course to the Pentagon is kind of indicative of a professional pilot and not a hijacker being at the controls,* because the crew who flew that plane knew precisely where the plane was when they turned directly onto a course which would then take them directly into the target, which that morning was the Pentagon.
*
From an experienced pilot&#8217;s standpoint, going back to W. Va. Where they executed the standard rate turn that no hijacker would have bothered with in the first place, that was one of the first clues beyond the impossibility of entering the cockpit without opening the door, or hijacking the plane without the crew either changing the transponder code to &#8216;hijack&#8217; and broadcasting it on the radio. *Second, the no disengage of the autopilot doesn&#8217;t work for me, as the crew would have kicked the rudders and the yokes and the autopilot would have disengaged during any STRUGGLE to take the plane over.*

http://911justicehalifax.wordpress.com/category/9-11-the-official-account-of-the-pentagon-attack-is-a-fantasy/


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## Uncensored2008 (Aug 13, 2012)

Indofred said:


> You really don't read all that well, do you?
> I'm about as radical left as Maggie Thatcher and I'm saying there is more to 9/11 than meets the eye.
> I'm unsure who did what but there may have been Israeli involvement.
> What is for sure - there is far more to the story than the official version.



The "truth" of 9/11 is just Muslims being Muslims.

Mohammad Atta and the boys murdered Kafir for the glory of the sleazy pig djin, Allah.


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## Mr. Jones (Aug 19, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > You really don't read all that well, do you?
> ...


Yeah those crafty Muslim Jihadists, knowing precisely when to attack during the terror drills, and suspending the laws of physics in Manhattan. Terror drills on 7-7 in the London tubes as well. Ever wonder how they knew all of this?? Probably not...


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## daws101 (Aug 20, 2012)

Mr. Jones said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...


still spewing that steaming pile about suspending, breaking,bending the laws of physics !


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## Mr. Jones (Aug 21, 2012)

daws101 said:


> Mr. Jones said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...


 Perhaps you can more eloquently point out exactly what it is about the laws of physics that were not suspended about the collapses of the buildings. We have only heard you say they weren't suspended or broken or ignored, but you never point out to anything, printed in papers, or otherwise to let us know why your opinion is different.

There are scientific write ups suggesting the laws of physics were violated concerning the WTC buildings demise, and they have been posted, complete with explanations.
You on the other hand only can say that these papers and the opinions within them are a "steaming pile" with absolutely nothing else from you that backs up this opinion of it all being just a "steaming pile" of shit..

You'll probably just run away from this challenge just like you do all the other times by saying stupid shit like "it's already been explained" or some other BS, again without posting *anything* to back up that statement as well. You are just a phoney, all talk and no back bone.


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## daws101 (Aug 21, 2012)

Mr. Jones said:


> daws101 said:
> 
> 
> > Mr. Jones said:
> ...


scientific write ups by who? to be valild they would have to be written by an objective source. 
what that means is NO papers written by bias persons would be acceptable.
that makes them a steaming pile.


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## Godboy (Aug 21, 2012)

If the laws of physics were broken, why hasn't the entire scientific community come out and said so? If that happebed, the whole world would join the truther movement immediately. If what you're saying is true, then you should have no problem with getting the support of all scientists world wide.

Until then, expect nothing but laughter when you try floating this absurd conspiracy. Either put up or shut up.


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## eots (Aug 22, 2012)

Godboy said:


> If the laws of physics were broken, why hasn't the entire scientific community come out and said so? If that happebed, the whole world would join the truther movement immediately. If what you're saying is true, then you should have no problem with getting the support of all scientists world wide.
> 
> Until then, expect nothing but laughter when you try floating this absurd conspiracy. Either put up or shut up.



Look..godbot crawled out from under some rock..or some ones sock drawer


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## daws101 (Aug 22, 2012)

Godboy said:


> If the laws of physics were broken, why hasn't the entire scientific community come out and said so? If that happebed, the whole world would join the truther movement immediately. If what you're saying is true, then you should have no problem with getting the support of all scientists world wide.
> 
> Until then, expect nothing but laughter when you try floating this absurd conspiracy. Either put up or shut up.


 easy now, that's way too much logic for the twoofers to process.


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## daws101 (Aug 22, 2012)

eots said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > If the laws of physics were broken, why hasn't the entire scientific community come out and said so? If that happebed, the whole world would join the truther movement immediately. If what you're saying is true, then you should have no problem with getting the support of all scientists world wide.
> ...


what no video to refute god boy's comment?


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## eots (Aug 22, 2012)

daws101 said:


> eots said:
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Lynn Margulis, Ph.D., member of the National Academy of Sciences and world renowned scientist, characterized the official account of 9/11 as "a fraud" and called for a new investigation, "I suggest that those of us aware and concerned demand that the glaringly erroneous official account of 9/11 be dismissed as a fraud and a new, thorough, and impartial investigation be undertaken."
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elq9-q9YGo4]9/11 Research and the Scientific Method - Lynn Margulis. PhD - Scientist - YouTube[/ame]



 Commander Ralph Kolstad, U.S. Navy Top Gun pilot, questioned the official account of 9/11 and called for a new investigation. "When one starts using his own mind, and not what one was told, there is very little to believe in the official story."

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXyCqoD0rZw]Navy Top Gun Questions Official 9/11 Story - Ralph Kolstad Interview by Kevin Barrett - YouTube[/ame]


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## daws101 (Aug 22, 2012)

eots said:


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now you're just doing reruns of debunked bullshit.... 
show me an actual experiment not using wtc7 as proof..  to show that "the laws of physics" can be broken under controlled and monitored conditions that can be repeated.
also you must name what laws were broken.


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## eots (Aug 22, 2012)

daws101 said:


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debunked by who ???..a paid message board troll...lol


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## daws101 (Aug 22, 2012)

eots said:


> daws101 said:
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  everyone not suffering the same delusions you are! 
how did I know you would dodge this question /request: show me an actual experiment not using wtc7 as proof.. to show that "the laws of physics" can be broken under controlled and monitored conditions that can be repeated.
also you must name what laws were broken.  
Today 02:52 PM


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## eots (Aug 22, 2012)

daws101 said:


> eots said:
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BLAH BLAH BLAH BALH WHAAA ??...thats not even a coherent question agent..You made the claim the top gun pilot and the esteemed scientist had been debunk and I asked by who ??...its you that dodges the question

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WCcSHpvAJ8&feature=player_embedded]Kamal Obeid, C.E., S.E. -- Civil and Structural Engineer - AE911Truth.org - YouTube[/ame]


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## eots (Aug 22, 2012)

NIST only evidence for their theory is a computer animation that took them 8 yrs of tweaking every parameter until they had something they could possible pass off at best as a  outrageously improbable event

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnXeUIaYj3k]WTC 7 NIST Model Reality Check - YouTube[/ame]


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## daws101 (Aug 22, 2012)

eots said:


> daws101 said:
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how is this not a coherent question?    : show me an actual experiment not using wtc7 as proof.. to show that "the laws of physics" can be broken under controlled and monitored conditions that can be repeated.
also you must name what laws were broken. 

I knew you an illiterate fuck but you should have learned all those english words by the sixth grade ..
ok I'll  make it easy: "do you have any other alleged  proof that the laws of physics have been or can be broken other than wtc7.?


also nothing this guy: Kamal Obeid, C.E., S.E. -- Civil and Structural Engineer - AE911Truth.org  says is valid.
as the ae911 org has no credibility in the engineering  world.
and there is no evidence of cd's thermite etc....no matter how hard you wish it were so.


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## daws101 (Aug 22, 2012)

eots said:


> NIST only evidence for their theory is a computer animation that took them 8 yrs of tweaking every parameter until they had something they could possible pass off at best as a  outrageously improbable event
> 
> WTC 7 NIST Model Reality Check - YouTube


false!!!


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## eots (Aug 22, 2012)

NIST used computer models that they said have never been used in such an application before and are the state of the art. For this they should be commended for their skill. But* the validation of these modeling results is in question. Others have computed aspects with different conclusions on the cause mechanism of the collapse*. Moreover, it is common in fire investigation to compute a time-line and compare it to known events. NIST has not done that.

OpEdNews - Page 2 of Article: Former Chief of NIST's Fire Science Division Calls for Independent Review of World Trade Center Investigation


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## eots (Aug 22, 2012)

> "do you have any other alleged proof that the laws of physics have been or can be broken other than wtc7.?



lol...this question in completely incoherent


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## daws101 (Aug 22, 2012)

eots said:


> NIST used computer models that they said have never been used in such an application before and are the state of the art. For this they should be commended for their skill. But* the validation of these modeling results is in question. Others have computed aspects with different conclusions on the cause mechanism of the collapse*. Moreover, it is common in fire investigation to compute a time-line and compare it to known events. NIST has not done that.
> 
> OpEdNews - Page 2 of Article: Former Chief of NIST's Fire Science Division Calls for Independent Review of World Trade Center Investigation


Alan Miller is author of the website Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report and webmaster for Medical Professionals for 9/11 Truth http://MP911Truth.org:lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## daws101 (Aug 22, 2012)

eots said:


> > "do you have any other alleged proof that the laws of physics have been or can be broken other than wtc7.?
> 
> 
> 
> lol...this question in completely incoherent


I knew you were an illiterate fuck.


 and a pussy .


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## eots (Aug 22, 2012)

what possible relevance could that have on the Dr Quintiere concerns over the NIST computer model ??


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## Rat in the Hat (Aug 22, 2012)

*The fact that this man is still alive...*





*... is proof that "inside job" is bullshit.*​
Does anyone really think a secret shadow government willing to murder 3,000 innocent people in order to start a war for world dominion would hesitate to add one more murder, especially someone running around exposing their nefarious plan?

I think not.


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## Mr. Jones (Aug 22, 2012)

daws101 said:


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What the fuck are you babbling on about ? CONTROLLED DEMOLITION is the only way to move the huge massive structure of the buildings to allow for such uniform descent, within the time recorded, because resistance should be present to slow the collapse you fucking idiot.

http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/2008/TheMissingJolt7.pdf


The energy balance of the collapse moves into deficit during the plastic shortening phase of the first impacted columns showing that there would be insufficient energy available from the released potential energy of the upper section to satisfy all of the energy demands of the collision. The analysis shows that despite the assumptions made in favour of collapse continuation, vertical movement of the falling section would be arrested prior to completion of the 3% shortening phase of the impacted columns, and within 0.02 secondsafter impact. 


A collapse driven only by gravity would not continue to progress beyond that point. 
The analysis shows that the energies expended during the time period of the plastic 
shortening of the first storey height of the vertical columns is sufficient to exhaust the 
energy of the falling section and thereby arrest collapse. This however is not the full extent of the plastic strain energy demand which exists. The next immediate task for the falling mass to continue in its descent would be the plastic shortening within the remainder of the buckle length. As has already been stated a buckling failure mode has a minimum length over which it can act and in the case of the towers would be several storey lengths. Each additional storey length involved in the buckle would add a further demand of about 450MJ for a further downward movement of 0.111metres. This also shows that collapse arrest is not dependent upon an expenditure of energy in concrete pulverisation, since even if this expenditure were disregarded the input energy would be exhausted during plastic shortening of the second storeys affected. 

The analysis can be extrapolated to show that the energy expended within the plastic 
shortening phase of a six storey buckle would ensure that a fall by the upper section 
through two storeys under full gravitational acceleration would also be resisted at an early stage. A similar response would be elicited from an opposed three or more storey drop delivering the same levels of energy at impact. It can be further envisaged that a collapse initiated by a fall through a greater number of storeys, would be either arrested or significantly and noticably slowed when regard is taken for energy demands both in the fall by the upper section, and by inclusion of demands identified but not quantified in this article. It should also be noted that this analysis examines only the energy levels required up to a point in time during the plastic shortening phase. Energy demands which involve further phases of the collapse mechanism, such as buckling of beams and disassociation of end connections, spandrel plates and floor connections are further massive energy demands which must then be satisfied. 

The kinetic energy can only be used once, and can not be used for other things like smashing columns and beams, and pulverization of concrete. This is the shit you fail to even try to understand, instead you ignore the science behind the credible alternative explanations that resoundingly show what a fraud the NIST is. For all of this destruction to have taken place in the time recorded without the use of CD type of assistance is highly doubtful, and if you don't think these buildings were rigged to implode, maybe you can explain why Silverstein wanted to tell his insurance company about imploding WTC 7.

People are failing to grasp the enormity of these buildings and treated their destruction and vertical descents  like it was something to be expected, when the fires could not possibly have caused it, if you know anything about  steel and how much constant heat it must be exposed to, at all the support points, at the same times in order for these things to fall without staggering or falling over to the weakest side.

www.journalof911studies.com/articles/Journal_5_PTransferRoss.pdf

The first clues are simply by looking at the way they fell, complete with energy releasing above and below the collapse wave. These things weren't victims of "natural" forces or weakening by fires alone as they would have taken much longer to fall because the more robust unmolested lower parts of the buildings would have provided resistance to arrest the falling wave.
Hell NIST even said as much, before they were made to correct their report and admit to free fall  at WTC 7.
Sporadic fires causing this straight uniform decent with free fall acceleration? What a fucking crock of shit. 

NIST Data Disproves Collapse Theories Based on Fire.
And strongly suggest that some unnamed persons or groups either inside or with ties to the government were actively creating a &#8216;Pearl Harbor&#8217; event, most likely to gain public support for the aggressive foreign policies that followed &#8211; policies that would, first, &#8216;transform&#8217; the entire Middle East, and second, expand U.S. global domination.


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## eots (Aug 22, 2012)

> "do you have any other alleged proof that the laws of physics have been or can be broken other than wtc7.?



ok I will give it a go...their was this east Indian guy that alleged he could make a rope
stand on its own with a flute

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx_rqOjZOAg]Magic Indian Rope Trick street magicians Magician Rajkumar - YouTube[/ame]


but I dont believe him any more than this guy...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paF0rBNksDM]NIST WTC 7 Report - Press Briefing 8/21/08 pt 4 - YouTube[/ame]


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## Rat in the Hat (Aug 22, 2012)

Thinking about it, I'm willing to bet the *TRUTHERS*TM have done the country a favor, and have stopped the terrorists from attacking us.

I imagine this conversation has happened more than once...

Terrorist #1: Let's head to America and blow up a football stadium.

Terrorist #2: Why bother? A bunch of pimply faced losers will just make up some YouTubes to blame it on Boooooosh and the Bilderbergs.

Terrorist #1: Damn, you're right. Let's just head over to Ali Achmed's Felafel Stand instead. I hear he's having a sale on camel kebobs today.


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## eots (Aug 22, 2012)

Rat in the Hat said:


> *The fact that this man is still alive...*
> 
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> 
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logical to you..but we must consider the fact you are stupid...its whack a mole kill him two more pop up ..start killing engineers who question 911 off is hardly what they would do...much easier to enlist the aid of popular mechanics T.V soundbites and internet trolls to try to discredit them and perpetuate ignorance and disinformation


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## eots (Aug 22, 2012)

Rat in the Hat said:


> Thinking about it, I'm willing to bet the *TRUTHERS*TM have done the country a favor, and have stopped the terrorists from attacking us.
> 
> I imagine this conversation has happened more than once...
> 
> ...



How sad for you ...nothing but the voices in your head and your inane little imaginings..hope life gets better for you


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## Rat in the Hat (Aug 22, 2012)

eots said:


> Rat in the Hat said:
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> kill him two more pop up



So that's why the *TRUTH*TM "movement" is dying off. The NWO and the Jooooos aren't killing them off so more moles can be formed.

The twoofers need to do something quick. I've heard that suicide is painless.


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## Mr. Jones (Aug 22, 2012)

Rat in the Hat said:


> *The fact that this man is still alive...*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Fucking idiot...Many whistle blowers have been mysteriously found dead, and to say this man has not, and so therefore we should avoid all the other important facts that disprove the OCT, including the science that goes against it is fucking stupid, and ignorant.
What about the other false flag attempts like Northwoods that disregarded American lives, or McNamara admitting Vietnam could have been avoided and was based on a lie as well. The WMD's that would blow us up in a mushroom cloud in Iraq? You are either extremely naive or plain fucking stupid
I think you're both. I await your mandatory juvenile post response.


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## daws101 (Aug 22, 2012)

eots said:


> what possible relevance could that have on the Dr Quintiere concerns over the NIST computer model ??


guess you don't understand what bias and false premise are.


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## Rat in the Hat (Aug 22, 2012)

Mr. Jones said:


> Rat in the Hat said:
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> > *The fact that this man is still alive...*
> ...



But this is the most famous moron in the bunch, and he runs all over the world exposing the murderous shadow government. Why would they hesitate to shut him up? It's not like one of the other goofs would get the coverage Pope Dickey G gets.


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## SFC Ollie (Aug 22, 2012)

I'd say he did a fine job discrediting himself........


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## daws101 (Aug 22, 2012)

Mr. Jones said:


> Rat in the Hat said:
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speaking of stupid and ignorant ....there is no evidence linking the so called mysterious deaths to 911....


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## eots (Aug 22, 2012)

daws101 said:


> eots said:
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> > what possible relevance could that have on the Dr Quintiere concerns over the NIST computer model ??
> ...



SO YOU CANT ANSWER THE QUESTION..what possible relevance could that have on the Dr Quintiere concerns over the NIST computer model ??


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## Mr. Jones (Aug 23, 2012)

daws101 said:


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No but how much circumstantial evidence does one need to connect the dots...So many coincidences in all things 9-11...It all points to a false flag perpetrated against America.


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## daws101 (Aug 24, 2012)

eots said:


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I already did: "guess you don't understand what bias and false premise are"-daws


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## daws101 (Aug 24, 2012)

Mr. Jones said:


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your answer was no.....so that means since there is no hard evidence to link those death to 911 then all truth based circumstantial "evidence" regarding 911 is conjecture not proof. 

  THE DOTS you rave about are a byproduct of cognitive bias....
        or 
"people find what they are looking for even when it's not there." 

that could  ALSO be said about the so called OCT "followers" but since they have hard evidence to corroborate their account of 911 it would be false.


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## eots (Aug 24, 2012)

daws101 said:


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So,are you struggling to say that you think Dr Quintiere statements about the computer model are some how effected by bias and false premise of the webmasters that runs a site that post the Dr Quintiere quotes ???....you really make no sense


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## daws101 (Aug 24, 2012)

eots said:


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it's no struggle at all for me, as for you well ....


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## Indofred (Aug 24, 2012)

Mr. Jones said:


> No but how much circumstantial evidence does one need to connect the dots...So many coincidences in all things 9-11...It all points to a false flag perpetrated against America.



It suggests the possibility of such but there is no smoking gun.
What is clear is, the US government is keeping things out of the public domain.
That suggests there is more to 9/11 than the official line.


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