# Breast-Feeding: Private Act or Public Right?



## Angel Heart (Jul 16, 2007)

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Health/Story?id=3378982&page=2


> Breast-Feeding: Private Act or Public Right?
> Several States Have Passed Laws Allowing Women to Breast-Feed in PublicJuly 15, 2007
> 
> It is an act millions of new moms do everyday. But when it comes to breast-feeding, some argue there is a time and a place for it.
> ...


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## Annie (Jul 16, 2007)

IMO, as long as the mom and baby are covered, shouldn't be an issue. Bathrooms as we all know are gross. 

On the other hand, if a Demi Moore wannabee free and natural, that is not fair for the many that don't want that nudity, which a bare breast is.


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## Angel Heart (Jul 16, 2007)

ITA

How ever having been a nursing mama, I do know that's not always the easiest thing. When their little great. But once they have mastered grasping... Forget about it. Unless it happens to be after they have fallen asleep. 

Myself, I would usually find a quiet place out of the way with my back to the crowd if we where out in public. It was easier anyways. A distracted baby makes it a lot harder. I however REFUSED to nurse in the bathroom. I was asked when my soon to be 16 yr old was 3 months old to take it in the bathroom by a mall security. I commented to him, "how would you feel about eating your lunch in the bathroom?" He then escorted me out of the mall. I called up LLL and we had a nurse in the next weekend. You know, I never did see that rent a cop again. And the mall made it a rule that you can't bug nursing moms. The law protecting nursing mamas and babies a few years later. I celebrated that day. 

I'm also a strong supporter of extended nursing and the family bed.


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## Annie (Jul 16, 2007)

Angel Heart said:


> ITA
> 
> How ever having been a nursing mama, I do know that's not always the easiest thing. When their little great. But once they have mastered grasping... Forget about it. Unless it happens to be after they have fallen asleep.
> 
> ...



I nursed all 3 of my kids until they were over a year old, youngest now 21. No one said anything to me, but I kept covered. The kids got the drill. Family bed? Not to my liking, too many pitfalls.


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## Angel Heart (Jul 16, 2007)

What about taking away the right of another family to choose the family bed for their family?


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## Annie (Jul 16, 2007)

Angel Heart said:


> What about taking away the right of another family to choose the family bed for their family?



Hey, I'm not into entering anyone's bedroom. You want your kids in bed? Another couple men and/or women? Not my place. Start preaching that may come under another heading.


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## actsnoblemartin (Jul 16, 2007)

Old Position: I am 100&#37; against a woman breats feeding in public, i respect your opinions, but we should do certain things in private.

new Position: (because my sister explained the situation to me, and I sympathize with her). I support public breast feeding, as long as it done discreetly, and with consideration of others, a.k.a. as politely.


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## maineman (Jul 16, 2007)

actsnoblemartin said:


> I am 100&#37; against a woman breats feeding in public, i respect your opinions, but we should do certain things in private.



And I am sure if she is also Hispanic and trying to control one child while providing nourishment to another who NEEDS it, you will tell her how insulted you are that she is speaking Spanish.

you have obviously never been a parent and had to run errands and had a screaming hungry infant on your hands.

you are an immature narrow minded bigot, IMHO.


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## Angel Heart (Jul 16, 2007)

actsnoblemartin said:


> I am 100% against a woman breastfeeding in public, i respect your opinions, but we should do certain things in private.



But do we require everyone to eat in private? How about you stop eating out? 


Myself I don't care if I see anything or not. The sexual part of breast is the bonus plan. They where designed for one thing.... Feeding human babies!


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## Shattered (Jul 16, 2007)

We don't require everyone to eat in private.. However, when your children are screaming, common courtesy dictates that you remove them from the restaurant for everyone elses sake, as well as their own.

As for breastfeeding, a mother KNOWS when her child is most likely to want to eat.  What's she doing traipsing through a mall during that time, anyway?  It's also stressful for a baby to be fed in anything except a nice, calm environment.  A friggen mall ain't it.  Nor is a grocery store.  If you MUST be out, then why not just go back to your car, if the place you're at doesn't have one of those nice little feeding rooms?  Your car is at least private, and quiet.


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## Gunny (Jul 16, 2007)

Y'all want to duke it out, the rest of the thread which is off-topic is now in the taunting arena.  Leave this thread to address the topic please.


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## maineman (Jul 16, 2007)

I, for one, view breast feeding as a natural and necessary event.  I am not drawn to stare at the event, nor do I find it titillating.  In fact, I find it heartwarming and uplifting.


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## Shattered (Jul 16, 2007)

maineman said:


> I, for one, view breast feeding as a natural and necessary event.  I am not drawn to stare at the event, nor do I find it titillating.  In fact, I find it heartwarming and uplifting.



You would think that you want whats best for your wife, and your child.. And that isn't being gawked at in a VERY public place, which hosts every type of person imaginable.

It's not about alienating a woman/mothers rights.  It's about decency, and common sense.


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## Gunny (Jul 16, 2007)

maineman said:


> I, for one, view breast feeding as a natural and necessary event.  I am not drawn to stare at the event, nor do I find it titillating.  In fact, I find it heartwarming and uplifting.



I can't say I find it "heartwarming and uplifiting," but I don't find it unnatural and don't really pay much attention to it.


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## maineman (Jul 16, 2007)

GunnyL said:


> I can't say I find it "heartwarming and uplifiting," but I don't find it unnatural and don't really pay much attention to it.



we are really on the same page...you are just too "crusty" to allow yourself to get in touch with your feelings!


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## Angel Heart (Jul 16, 2007)

maineman said:


> I, for one, view breast feeding as a natural and necessary event.  I am not drawn to stare at the event, nor do I find it titillating.  In fact, I find it heartwarming and uplifting.



I find it very heartwarming and uplifting as well. It's one of the healthest and natural choices a parent can make for their child.


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## actsnoblemartin (Jul 16, 2007)

I apologize for my joke, it was inappropriate.


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## Shattered (Jul 16, 2007)

actsnoblemartin said:


> god forbid i offend you people
> 
> Im sick of it, get over yourselves, if you cant take a joke, you shouldnt be on a message board, where worse things are said.
> 
> Some of you people are just idiots.



You're in the wrong thread, dumpling...


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## actsnoblemartin (Jul 16, 2007)




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## Bern80 (Jul 16, 2007)

If the U.S. as a country didn't have such a complex about sexuality........

Er rewind.  Okay breast feeding really isn't about sexuality, but it involves breasts and you know where are brains go next, you get the picture.

Anywho, few countries are is uptight about anything remotelyu sexual in nature as the U.S.


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## Gunny (Jul 17, 2007)

maineman said:


> we are really on the same page...you are just too "crusty" to allow yourself to get in touch with your feelings!



Feelings?


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## CSM (Jul 17, 2007)

GunnyL said:


> Feelings?



MM is an former Naval officer; I know that in the Army they issue all newly commissioned officers a tiny jar of feelings. I have no idea what the heck they use them for as usually they empty the jar and put their brains in it. The jar is then carefully placed on a shelf in a closet someplace...never to see the light of day again.

Breast feeding in public doesn't bother me one bit unless the one being fed is over 11 years old.


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## Annie (Jul 17, 2007)

Shattered said:


> We don't require everyone to eat in private.. However, when your children are screaming, common courtesy dictates that you remove them from the restaurant for everyone elses sake, as well as their own.
> 
> As for breastfeeding, a mother KNOWS when her child is most likely to want to eat.  What's she doing traipsing through a mall during that time, anyway?  It's also stressful for a baby to be fed in anything except a nice, calm environment.  A friggen mall ain't it.  Nor is a grocery store.  If you MUST be out, then why not just go back to your car, if the place you're at doesn't have one of those nice little feeding rooms?  Your car is at least private, and quiet.



Spoken as the enlightened, non-maternal one. 

Kids are not on a time table. 

They cannot be offed for deviating from such, nor should be their mothers or fathers.

Even when all 'goes according to plan' a boob may be hidden beneath a blanket and noticed by those with great eyes. Should we shoot them? Should we shoot the kids that don't get with the program?

Should we shoot or bow down to the Shattered that let all the regular folks know just how useless the are?

Whoops, putting away the drink, before Shattered can call me out.


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## Gem (Jul 17, 2007)

I think that this issue only rears its head when someone on one end of the "breastfeeding in public" issue or the other tries to make some sort of point about it.

While I plan to breastfeed and imagine that at some point in time I will have to do so in public, I will also admit to having been uncomfortable more than once at a woman breastfeeding in public.  The most vivid memory of this I have was in highschool, I was a lifeguard, and there was a time when a woman pulled down her bathing suit top to her waist and fed her baby while sitting with her feet in the baby pool.  She responded indignantly "would YOU want to eat YOUR lunch in the locker room?!?!" when my co-guard asked her to please feed her child there since there were numerous teenagers and adults who were uncomfortable by her being topless at the pool.  I thought then, and I think now..."No, but then I wouldn't want to eat lunch with my mom flashing her goods to a whole bunch of damned strangers either, lady!"

It seems that what always happens when these cases get major press is that:

1) Some breastfeeding nut decides that she should have the right to take her top off and bare her breast in the middle of an Applebees and feed her child with no blanket and no one should dare comment that it makes them the slightest bit uncomfortable or else they are a misogynist pig who hates women and babies and should be publically humiliated for daring to comment against such a natural, beautiful thing.

2)  Some idiot sees a woman calmly and quietly feeding her child as discreetly as possible and raises a ridiculous hissy fit because he can't stop starting at her breast long enough to read his paper or eat his salad without distraction.


People have the right to feed their children in public.  People have the right to eat, shop, sit at a pool, or on a plane without having to look at some strange woman's breast.  These two rights can be met with simple common sense.  

Breastfeeding women, plan accordingly, bring a blanket to cover yourself so that you are not giving an eyeful of boobie to passerby's (you may feel its beautiful and natural...so do nudists...but unless you want to see a naked 60-year old nudist man shopping next to you at Target...lets continue to operate under the assumption that public nudity is a no-no).  If you are covered, you can feed your child anywhere you want...but commonsense would tell you to do it somewhere calm, quiet, and out of the way (not for others, but for your child).  

Passerbys...realize that a woman sitting quietly with a blanket draped over her shoulder and chest isn't cold...shes nursing, leave her alone.  If, in the process of starting or stopping feeding her breast accidently comes briefly into view...give her a break...when you burp accidentally during a meal or talk with your mouth full or accidentally drop some nacho out of your mouth while eating in public...we don't point and scream that you are disgusting and demand you eat in private.


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## Shattered (Jul 17, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> Spoken as the enlightened, non-maternal one.
> 
> Kids are not on a time table.
> 
> ...




Obviously, you've done such a wonderful job with the ones you teach, since you're always here.

Here's a bit of unsolicited advice for you, _Kath_.. IF you want me to leave you alone, don't be stupid enough to come looking for me.


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## Shattered (Jul 17, 2007)

Gem said:


> I think that this issue only rears its head when someone on one end of the "breastfeeding in public" issue or the other tries to make some sort of point about it.
> 
> While I plan to breastfeed and imagine that at some point in time I will have to do so in public, I will also admit to having been uncomfortable more than once at a woman breastfeeding in public.  The most vivid memory of this I have was in highschool, I was a lifeguard, and there was a time when a woman pulled down her bathing suit top to her waist and fed her baby while sitting with her feet in the baby pool.  She responded indignantly "would YOU want to eat YOUR lunch in the locker room?!?!" when my co-guard asked her to please feed her child there since there were numerous teenagers and adults who were uncomfortable by her being topless at the pool.  I thought then, and I think now..."No, but then I wouldn't want to eat lunch with my mom flashing her goods to a whole bunch of damned strangers either, lady!"
> 
> ...



Ever the voice of reason.  SOME would do well to take note of your words.


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## Said1 (Jul 17, 2007)

Having been there and done that, I can say, with certainty, that despite your best efforts, sometimes you're traipsing through places with your baby and they surprise you. That is, you _have_ to go out, you think the baby will be fine, you plan to be back in time for their normal feeding, but they surpise you and want to nurse the minute you arrive at your errand. I didn't breast feed, but there was an occasion or two that I thought I could make it to the drug store and back before my daughter's next feeding - not so. These were usually the times I was going to get formula, go figure.  


Anyway, I guess the my point is that sometimes breastfeeding women HAVE to leave their house to run errands. Sometimes, their children surprise them and need to be fed at a time that is not generally when they have a feeding. If you are breast feeding, covered, and out of the way, mothers should be left alone. Running out to the car isn't always an option.....what if you don't have one?


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## manu1959 (Jul 17, 2007)

true story..........

i am at an outdoor cafe in berkeley

at a bus stop across the street is a child and a mom standing there "bickerering"

mom finally throws up her arms...

child....ducks under the moms shirt and starts brest feeding....i figure the kid for 8 or 9.....


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## Gunny (Jul 19, 2007)

manu1959 said:


> true story..........
> 
> i am at an outdoor cafe in berkeley
> 
> ...




I don't know which one has worse "issues."


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## Said1 (Jul 20, 2007)

GunnyL said:


> I don't know which one has worse "issues."



After witnessing that scene, I'd say Manu.


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## Gunny (Jul 21, 2007)

Said1 said:


> After witnessing that scene, I'd say Manu.


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## MassageGirl (Jul 24, 2007)

Gem said:


> I think that this issue only rears its head when someone on one end of the "breastfeeding in public" issue or the other tries to make some sort of point about it.



Seems like in this case, it appears that the "point" that some people make,happens to be at the very moment an infant is eating its supper.  The baby's gotta eat sometime...



> While I plan to breastfeed and imagine that at some point in time I will have to do so in public, I will also admit to having been uncomfortable more than once at a woman breastfeeding in public.  The most vivid memory of this I have was in highschool, I was a lifeguard, and there was a time when a woman pulled down her bathing suit top to her waist and fed her baby while sitting with her feet in the baby pool.  She responded indignantly "would YOU want to eat YOUR lunch in the locker room?!?!" when my co-guard asked her to please feed her child there since there were numerous teenagers and adults who were uncomfortable by her being topless at the pool.  I thought then, and I think now..."No, but then I wouldn't want to eat lunch with my mom flashing her goods to a whole bunch of damned strangers either, lady!"



The thing is, she was right. Unless you have to take your sandwich into the locker room, then she shouldnt have to take her babys lunch into it.  Look, I et that its not cool to pull your breasts out in public, at least to most people, but its not cool to have your thong showing, and at one point, it wasnt even cool to show any cleavage at all, ankles included. Well, MEN could walk around shirtless, of course.... When the heck are WOMEN going to be seen as equals??? Just because our chests happen to have GLANDS in them, and stick out (usually more than a mans does) why should THEY have all the fun, walking arounf topless with their <GASP!!> NIPPLES showing!! ZOIKES!!! Is that GROSS to you, because unless youre a lesbian (I mean no joke, seriously) then a mans chest will turn you on, kinda like how a womans chest turns a man on... 



> It seems that what always happens when these cases get major press is that:
> 
> 1) Some breastfeeding nut decides that she should have the right to take her top off and bare her breast in the middle of an Applebees and feed her child with no blanket and no one should dare comment that it makes them the slightest bit uncomfortable or else they are a misogynist pig who hates women and babies and should be publically humiliated for daring to comment against such a natural, beautiful thing.



Oh dear, I really am excited that you plan on breastfeeding, but you wouldnt BELIEVE the mysoginists out there. It doesnt matter what YOUR standards are, they arent stupid, they know whats going on under your nursing shirt/ blanket/ etc,and they SEE breastfeeding as something called "feminism".. OH the NAZIS we must be, just trying to feed our helpless little 10 pound babies!!! LOL!! Sorry, just had to illustrate that point.. hehehe 



> 2)  Some idiot sees a woman calmly and quietly feeding her child as discreetly as possible and raises a ridiculous hissy fit because he can't stop starting at her breast long enough to read his paper or eat his salad without distraction.



HAHA YEAH thats exactly what Im talking about... Uh... Guess I should have read your whole post first, lol... Yes those idiots dont need babysitter laws against women, they simply need to learn to keep their own wieners in their pants, lol...




> People have the right to feed their children in public.  People have the right to eat, shop, sit at a pool, or on a plane without having to look at some strange woman's breast.  These two rights can be met with simple common sense.



I firmly agree, and (not trying to hijack here) if women were allowed to go topless, and show nipples the same way men can, then check this out- MEN WOULD GET USED TO SEEING BOOBS ALL DAY, and it WOULDNT be a BIG DEAL. In fact, I bet wet T shirt contests would even go out of style!! WOO HOO!!



> Breastfeeding women, plan accordingly, bring a blanket to cover yourself so that you are not giving an eyeful of boobie to passerby's (you may feel its beautiful and natural...so do nudists...but unless you want to see a naked 60-year old nudist man shopping next to you at Target...lets continue to operate under the assumption that public nudity is a no-no).  If you are covered, you can feed your child anywhere you want...but commonsense would tell you to do it somewhere calm, quiet, and out of the way (not for others, but for your child).



Thats not always possible, although the sentiment is not left unappreciated. 
Its juts not always possible. People GO to public beaches. They GO to public pools. They arent always wearing a nursing shirt, etc, and a blanket is just too hot to be covering up with, in those situations. 
Just trying to be practical here... When youre a parent you will understand. Its like telling people to change their babys diapers in the bathroom. There simply isnt always a bathroom. Tough.  Thats just how murphys law works.



> Passerbys...realize that a woman sitting quietly with a blanket draped over her shoulder and chest isn't cold...shes nursing, leave her alone.  If, in the process of starting or stopping feeding her breast accidently comes briefly into view...give her a break...when you burp accidentally during a meal or talk with your mouth full or accidentally drop some nacho out of your mouth while eating in public...we don't point and scream that you are disgusting and demand you eat in private.



HAHAHA You rock... However I wouldnt EVER put the "maturity" responsibility on the women who just spent 9 months of her life and an extra 35 pounds, no less, to grow the baby, just because its too hot to use a blanket, or because shes in the wrong AREA... 
I say, if she has to run around topless in order to make it easier for her BABY to get his reccommended daily nutrition, then so be it. Everyone else can just kiss her tushy. =) HAHA 

Hope to debate more with you, as you are a very bright person, and I love your debate style!!! =)


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## dilloduck (Jul 24, 2007)

MassageGirl said:


> Seems like in this case, it appears that the "point" that some people make,happens to be at the very moment an infant is eating its supper.  The baby's gotta eat sometime...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Women can legally go topless in Austin but I guess they really don't want to aclimate men to seeing boobs all that badly.


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## MassageGirl (Jul 24, 2007)

Not yet, but Im sure that the only reason they wouldnt, is because its only legal in ONE city, in a nation FULL of major cities... 

Men would be flying in from all over if Texan women were running around topless. 

2nd- Men generally only care about the visuals. Its a look. They already look down our blouses on a regular basis.. whats the big difference??? They go to topless bars just to see the breasts... TO SEE THEM. Not to assault women.  To look at boobs. 

Whoop tee doo... Thats my opinion about it all. I wish we would all burn our bras again.. Those were the days, I bet! =)


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## dilloduck (Jul 24, 2007)

MassageGirl said:


> Not yet, but Im sure that the only reason they wouldnt, is because its only legal in ONE city, in a nation FULL of major cities...
> 
> Men would be flying in from all over if Texan women were running around topless.
> 
> ...



Tell em all to carry babies around with em when they go topless---then they could act all offended when somebody looks.


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## Gem (Jul 24, 2007)

MassageGirl,

Thanks for the great comments.  I still think that there is a happy medium between the two opinions.  While I agree that a woman can't always find the ideal spot for breast-feeding...however, being an aunt to 1-year old triplets and a young woman with lots of friends having babies...I know that you can shove a light-weight burping-cloth-esque blanket into a diaper bag to be respectful of others.  

I do not think that most people have a problem with the woman who is quietly sitting trying to be discrete as possible as she feeds her child wherever she is...I think the women that people have issues with are the ones who are making no effort whatsoever to consider their surroundings or the people around them.  

The woman at the pool I guarded at refused the locker room - first, it was not a bathroom but a full locker room with a room of couches and chairs, air-conditioned, clean and quiet.  Second...she wasn't being discreet...but rather she was wearing her one-piece suit around her waist sitting poolside with both breasts exposed.  I guess my question is - Why?  Why was that neccessary...why couldn't she sit quietly on a pool chair out of view of others?

I don't like the attitude of "I'm a mother, its a beautiful thing so I get to do whatever I want and people who say anything about it are assholes..." anymore than I dislike the attitude of "Feed your kid in the dirty bathroom because I'm offended by the slightest peek of flesh."

It seems like common sense on both sides of the debate is the simplest solution.


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## manu1959 (Jul 24, 2007)

Gem said:


> MassageGirl,
> 
> Thanks for the great comments.  I still think that there is a happy medium between the two opinions.  While I agree that a woman can't always find the ideal spot for breast-feeding...however, being an aunt to 1-year old triplets and a young woman with lots of friends having babies...I know that you can shove a light-weight burping-cloth-esque blanket into a diaper bag to be respectful of others.
> 
> ...




i was at a wedding...maid of honour....ya right....sits down whips out her mellon at the table and covers the kids face


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## dilloduck (Jul 24, 2007)

manu1959 said:


> i was at a wedding...maid of honour....ya right....sits down whips out her mellon at the table and covers the kids face



that'll show ya---respect women or they'll breastfeed at you in a place you won't like !


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## manu1959 (Jul 24, 2007)

dilloduck said:


> that'll show ya---respect women or they'll breastfeed at you in a place you won't like !



so anyway, i knew this girl from school and me and a buddy are just trans fixed by her other mellon which jumped at as well.....she gets all indignate at us a says " what are you staring at?"....my buddy says your gigantic titties....

i fell over backward just crying.....


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## Gem (Jul 24, 2007)

ROFL.  Good for your friend.


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## MassageGirl (Jul 25, 2007)

> I do not think that *most people have a problem with the woman who is quietly sitting trying to be discrete as possible* as she feeds her child wherever she is...I think the women that people have issues with are the ones who are making no effort whatsoever to consider their surroundings or the people around them.



I really need you to look at what you just wrote. THIS is the problem. It is NOT the womans responsibility to keep other peoples eyes from fixating on her. It is her RESPONSIBILITY to feed her child. I see it isnt an issue with her if she is acting as prudish as possible, and dare I say, HIDING her feminine breasts from all those disgusting pigs that seem to have such a hige problem with any mouths except their own touching that areola of hers... Good grief.. Boobs pop out. Big friggin deal. People dont even make this big of a deal about it if a womans top or bottoms come off in the pool, or a guys shorts fall down. Get over it! People dont have to babysit YOU, so dont try to babysit THEM!!! The happy medium will happen when women stop LETTING MEN EXPLOIT THEM THIS WAY!!! You probably call your female friends "beeotches"... I bet you do. Think about that, the next time YOU have a problem with a woman using her natural anatomy to feed her infant. Maybe you ARE a mysoginist. I refuse to go that far, myself, but this is obviously all about YOU and YOUR distaste for a woman breastfeeding.. ((((unless of course she acts like she lives in the 1700s and covers up as prudishly and quietly as friggin possible))) Well! Wecome to 2007...







> The woman at the pool I guarded at refused the locker room - first, it was not a bathroom but a full locker room with a room of couches and chairs, air-conditioned, clean and quiet. Second...she wasn't being discreet...but rather she was wearing her one-piece suit around her waist sitting poolside with both breasts exposed. I guess my question is - Why? Why was that neccessary...why couldn't she sit quietly on a pool chair out of view of others?



Because theyre just BREASTS. Do you SERIOUSLY have that big of a control issue? Yeah I get that both breasts were out. I GET that you dont like that. 
Who did she hurt? Nobody! theyre just a part of her body. They happen top have glands in them, making them stick out a little further than a mans nipples would. Big whoop!!! You probably wouldnt have an issue with a woman wearing a teeny bikini, as long as her nipples were covered up, so tell me, what IS the VERY BIG DEAL about the other 1.5 inches of skin? Really!! What is it??? Its NOT a big deal. Most people have seen them, most people have been fed by them, and some people even feed other peoples babies with them. Big friggin deal...Sheesh...



> I don't like the attitude of "I'm a mother, its a beautiful thing so I get to do whatever I want and people who say anything about it are assholes..." anymore than I dislike the attitude of "Feed your kid in the dirty bathroom because I'm offended by the slightest peek of flesh."



....except that YOU TOLD someone to take her kid into the grimy mildewy bathroom to have lunch JUST BECAUSE you dont want to look at those 2 extra inches OF flesh. Hypocrite!!!



> It seems like common sense on both sides of the debate is the simplest solution.



Yeah.. I wish more people could see that the only difference between a womans breasts and a mans chest is simply the glands which are JUST internal... That would sure make for some reason and common sense...


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## Angel Heart (Jul 25, 2007)

Same glands that the males have as well. They can lactate too.

Milkmen


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## dilloduck (Jul 25, 2007)

MassageGirl said:


> I really need you to look at what you just wrote. THIS is the problem. It is NOT the womans responsibility to keep other peoples eyes from fixating on her. It is her RESPONSIBILITY to feed her child. I see it isnt an issue with her if she is acting as prudish as possible, and dare I say, HIDING her feminine breasts from all those disgusting pigs that seem to have such a hige problem with any mouths except their own touching that areola of hers... Good grief.. Boobs pop out. Big friggin deal. People dont even make this big of a deal about it if a womans top or bottoms come off in the pool, or a guys shorts fall down. Get over it! People dont have to babysit YOU, so dont try to babysit THEM!!! The happy medium will happen when women stop LETTING MEN EXPLOIT THEM THIS WAY!!! You probably call your female friends "beeotches"... I bet you do. Think about that, the next time YOU have a problem with a woman using her natural anatomy to feed her infant. Maybe you ARE a mysoginist. I refuse to go that far, myself, but this is obviously all about YOU and YOUR distaste for a woman breastfeeding.. ((((unless of course she acts like she lives in the 1700s and covers up as prudishly and quietly as friggin possible))) Well! Wecome to 2007...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



ok--I'm done exploiting women--I'm not showing my nipples in public ever again so I can feel same pain that they go through.---and if someone tries to look down my shirt I'm gonna kick em in the------well----whatever they have or haven't.


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## Gunny (Jul 25, 2007)

dilloduck said:


> ok--I'm done exploiting women--I'm not showing my nipples in public ever again so I can feel same pain that they go through.---and if someone tries to look down my shirt I'm gonna kick em in the------well----whatever they have or haven't.



Not me.  I'm a topless male.  It sucks being such a shameless ho, but sombody's got to do it.


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## Gem (Jul 25, 2007)

MassageGirl, give me a friggin' break...you feel that breastfeeding is beautiful and wonderful, women should walk around topless with babies attached to both breasts even if they aren't breastfeeding just to demonstrate that we are beautiful creatures and our breasts aren't anything to be ashamed of...we get it, we really do.  LOL.

But others - many of whom *agree* with you that breastfeeding is a beautiful and wonderful thing and that women should not be ashamed of their bodies - still don't want to see some strangers naked body while going about their daily chores.  

I have no issues or problems with the naked human body.  I've sunbathed topless on beaches in Spain and had conversations with my sister-in-law while she breastfed my nieces...I really could care less if the woman next to me on a plane breastfeeds her child on our flight...but I understand a gentleman who might be uncomfortable by it...so why should he have to suffer in silence when it could be cured by the woman simply showing respect for others by covering herself with a light blanket?!?!  

Your opinions seem to imply that you think simply because a woman has to feed her child she gets to give a big "fuck you" to everyone else around her and do whatever the hell she wants.  But she doesn't...she should be respectful of them just as they should be respectful of her and not give her a hard time for feeding her child in public.  

Thats the way civilized societies work, MassageGirl...we don't all get to do whatever the hell we want to just because we feel like we should...we all obey some basic semblance of rules and social mores.  Go ahead dislike it all you want...but the bottom line is that simple consideration on both sides of this argument solves the problem simply and without anyone having to be inconvenienced.  I'm not quite sure why the concept of both mother and bystander being polite and respectful of one another is such an obscene notion to you but I don't really see the point of ranting about it when its just so simple to be polite AND feed your child in public at the same time (how do I know this when I don't have children?  My brother and his wife have triplets...and if a woman can be polite and discreet when feeding THREE children at the mall, restaurants, Disney World, and while waiting to get her license renewed at the DMV and never once in a bathroom, I'm sure that other women can handle feeding one child discreetly as well, mothers are incredible women - I have faith in them).

As for the rest of your ranting (yes, its ranting when you respond to a calm post by insulting the poster even as you blatantly demonstrate that you didn't read her post clearly - I clearly stated that the locker room was a well appointed room with couches and carpet, not a "grimy bathroom" but hey, I guess in your rush to call me names there just wasn't time to read absolutely everything :roll: ), you went from saying that while you disagreed you respected my point and liked my debate style in one post to calling me a hypocritical misogynist for having the audacity to state that a woman can show respect for others by covering her breasts with a light blanket just as easily as those around her can show her respect by not freaking out if she happens to show some skin.  

I don't see common respect for eachother as some sort of radical anti-woman idea...but apparently you do...sigh, to each his own.


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## Bullypulpit (Jul 31, 2007)

Angel Heart said:


> http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Health/Story?id=3378982&page=2



If the baby is hungry, you feed it. End of discussion, except for those whose cognitive and moral development is stuck somewhere between 8 an 14.


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## Angel Heart (Jul 31, 2007)

Bullypulpit said:


> If the baby is hungry, you feed it. End of discussion, except for those whose cognitive and moral development is stuck somewhere between 8 an 14.



  ITA


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## actsnoblemartin (Aug 1, 2007)

I think their are moral standards or decency. I dont show my penis in public, a woman does not show her breasts in public. To me, it does not matter if the reason is sexual or not. Men and woman should behave and dress modestly, we need more social boundaries not less, And im ok with the fact that we have a difference of opinion. It will be interesting to see i am attacked for this  

We currently have no rules, written or un-written rules for social decorum/appropriate behavior. You have a lot of rude people going around, not giving a dam, if they offend people, or hurt peoples feelings, because they want to do something, whether that is breast feeding in public, talking at a movie theater, not saying excuse me, not dressing appropriately, not acting appropriate. We are a nation of me first, selfish basterds, and will be destoryed by our selfishness, and lack of considerations for others, NOT just ourselves.

I find it very intolerant to say to anyone who is offended, NOT sorry you feel that way, but this attitude of how dare you be offended you, you have no right to feel the way you do, and i dont give a blank what you think or how you feel.


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## actsnoblemartin (Aug 1, 2007)

I tried to stick to topic, but others refused or were incapable of that. Now, i am not a hypocrite, because my bad behavior has nothing to do with someone elses bad behaviour, and i am not criticizing them gunny, I am merely stating, I wish some would stay on topic.



GunnyL said:


> Y'all want to duke it out, the rest of the thread which is off-topic is now in the taunting arena.  Leave this thread to address the topic please.


----------



## actsnoblemartin (Aug 1, 2007)

if you or others choose, key word choose to have kids, stop whining and complaining about it. Its your decision to have kids, and you have to deal with it. Stop making it societies burden that you chose to have kids, not everybody feels the same way you do, and they are not bigotted simply because they disagree with you, I find it intolerant and disingenuos of you to atttack me, simply for disagreeing with you. Reasonable people can disagree. And while i am no saint, that is not the point, i am specifially talking about htis.

I do not have to be perfect to have a criticism.
Plus i already apologize for my rude statements, I dont see you apologizing to gunny, or anyone else you were rude too.




maineman said:


> And I am sure if she is also Hispanic and trying to control one child while providing nourishment to another who NEEDS it, you will tell her how insulted you are that she is speaking Spanish.
> 
> you have obviously never been a parent and had to run errands and had a screaming hungry infant on your hands.
> 
> you are an immature narrow minded bigot, IMHO.


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## actsnoblemartin (Aug 1, 2007)

I agree with you 100%, what you are saying is pure common sense, good job!




Shattered said:


> We don't require everyone to eat in private.. However, when your children are screaming, common courtesy dictates that you remove them from the restaurant for everyone elses sake, as well as their own.
> 
> As for breastfeeding, a mother KNOWS when her child is most likely to want to eat.  What's she doing traipsing through a mall during that time, anyway?  It's also stressful for a baby to be fed in anything except a nice, calm environment.  A friggen mall ain't it.  Nor is a grocery store.  If you MUST be out, then why not just go back to your car, if the place you're at doesn't have one of those nice little feeding rooms?  Your car is at least private, and quiet.


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## actsnoblemartin (Aug 1, 2007)

I think your partially missing the point. You are right, that its not about sex. But i believe its a modesty issue, the same reason people should dress modestly and act appropriate is the same reason not to breast feed in public. It is a question of boundaries, and people are violating peoples boundaries every day, and its not kosher in my opinion to say, your offended, you disagree, get over it. No, we are a society, that if we dont get back our common sense boundaries and limits, we will crumble like rome.




Bern80 said:


> If the U.S. as a country didn't have such a complex about sexuality........
> 
> Er rewind.  Okay breast feeding really isn't about sexuality, but it involves breasts and you know where are brains go next, you get the picture.
> 
> Anywho, few countries are is uptight about anything remotelyu sexual in nature as the U.S.


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## actsnoblemartin (Aug 1, 2007)

I disagree, flashing breasts in public is against the law, and we shouldnt make special accomodations for breast feeding. If you want certain groups, like breast feeding is great, or an organization voluteers better facilities for it fine. But, i dont remember flashing or showing any body part as a right, perhaps with all due respect you should read the constitution cause i never saw or heard of it being there.  





Gem said:


> I think that this issue only rears its head when someone on one end of the "breastfeeding in public" issue or the other tries to make some sort of point about it.
> 
> While I plan to breastfeed and imagine that at some point in time I will have to do so in public, I will also admit to having been uncomfortable more than once at a woman breastfeeding in public.  The most vivid memory of this I have was in highschool, I was a lifeguard, and there was a time when a woman pulled down her bathing suit top to her waist and fed her baby while sitting with her feet in the baby pool.  She responded indignantly "would YOU want to eat YOUR lunch in the locker room?!?!" when my co-guard asked her to please feed her child there since there were numerous teenagers and adults who were uncomfortable by her being topless at the pool.  I thought then, and I think now..."No, but then I wouldn't want to eat lunch with my mom flashing her goods to a whole bunch of damned strangers either, lady!"
> 
> ...


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## Bullypulpit (Aug 1, 2007)

actsnoblemartin said:


> I disagree, flashing breasts in public is against the law, and we shouldnt make special accomodations for breast feeding. If you want certain groups, like breast feeding is great, or an organization voluteers better facilities for it fine. But, i dont remember flashing or showing any body part as a right, perhaps with all due respect you should read the constitution cause i never saw or heard of it being there.



It's not against the law in Columbus, Ohio...nor in several other major metropolitan areas. But, just as marijuana use leads straight to heroine addiction...seeing a woman breast-feeding her baby in public leads straight to hard-core XXX porn addiction and perpetual self-abuse.


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## Gunny (Aug 1, 2007)

actsnoblemartin said:


> I think their are moral standards or decency. I dont show my penis in public, a woman does not show her breasts in public. To me, it does not matter if the reason is sexual or not. Men and woman should behave and dress modestly, we need more social boundaries not less, And im ok with the fact that we have a difference of opinion. It will be interesting to see i am attacked for this
> 
> We currently have no rules, written or un-written rules for social decorum/appropriate behavior. You have a lot of rude people going around, not giving a dam, if they offend people, or hurt peoples feelings, because they want to do something, whether that is breast feeding in public, talking at a movie theater, not saying excuse me, not dressing appropriately, not acting appropriate. We are a nation of me first, selfish basterds, and will be destoryed by our selfishness, and lack of considerations for others, NOT just ourselves.
> 
> I find it very intolerant to say to anyone who is offended, NOT sorry you feel that way, but this attitude of how dare you be offended you, you have no right to feel the way you do, and i dont give a blank what you think or how you feel.



In Okinawa, it is perfectly acceptable for Okinawans to whip it out and piss on a tree.  It's a cultural thing.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 1, 2007)

GunnyL said:


> In Okinawa, it is perfectly acceptable for Okinawans to whip it out and piss on a tree.  It's a cultural thing.



Well actually they are supposed to pee in the provided ditches. Not on the few trees they have in the cities. )


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## actsnoblemartin (Aug 4, 2007)

I would agree, and since im an uncle, since only a few days ago, my sister will breast feed, so, i dont mind breast feeding in public as long as its done as discreetly as possible. I think mothers need to know its a privalege, not a right to breast feed in public, in other words, dont abuse it.




Kathianne said:


> IMO, as long as the mom and baby are covered, shouldn't be an issue. Bathrooms as we all know are gross.
> 
> On the other hand, if a Demi Moore wannabee free and natural, that is not fair for the many that don't want that nudity, which a bare breast is.


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## MassageGirl (Aug 5, 2007)

actsnoblemartin said:


> I would agree, and since im an uncle, since only a few days ago, my sister will breast feed, so, i dont mind breast feeding in public as long as its done as discreetly as possible. I think mothers need to know its a privalege, not a right to breast feed in public, in other words, dont abuse it.




Well, until YOU start having to wear a shirt everywhere you go, and the "nipple popping out" of YOUR tank top becomes this MAJOR ISSUE, then you dont really have a leg to stand on. Men have nipples, and so do women. Its NOT an issue to you, if a woman is showing the REST of her breast, asidr FROM the nipple area. BFD!!! So her nipple shows for a few minutes! I'm sure youve been to some bikini or wet T shirt contest. Grow up. Just because THESE women are NOURISHING a baby's stomach rather than your OGLING EYES, doesnt mean JACK. 
If the sight of a womans breasts are such a big friggin issue for you, why not try to outlaw these bikinis that show the bottoms or sides of breasts, or try to outlaw the wet t shirt contests? I know why, because you think that women should only be here to serve you, and thats all. Once we have stretch marks and tummy rolls, we are only useful for cooking your dinners, cleaning your house, and picking up your skid marked underwear, isnt that right?
Get over yourself. I am so sick of all the male supremacy mysoginy on here. GAWD.


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## MassageGirl (Aug 5, 2007)

PS It IS NOT a privilage to breastfeed in public. It is all a part of the NATURAL HUMAN NEED. It is no more a privilage to breastfeed ones baby in public than it is a privilage to have sex with someone youre attracted to in private, which by the way, is how babies are made.  For gods sake, what is your problem!!! Do you talk to your mother this way? Your sister? 

What happened with your family? Your dad used to beat the crap out of your mom, and as a result, you no longer have any sensibility about you, or respect for women?


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## Angel Heart (Aug 5, 2007)

actsnoblemartin said:


> I would agree, and since im an uncle, since only a few days ago, my sister will breast feed, so, i dont mind breast feeding in public as long as its done as discreetly as possible. I think mothers need to know its a privalege, not a right to breast feed in public, in other words, dont abuse it.



http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/breast50.htm



> Thirty-nine states have laws with language specifically allowing women to breastfeed in any public or private location (Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Utah, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont, and Wyoming).
> 
> Twenty-one states exempt breastfeeding from public indecency laws (Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Illinois, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, Washington and Wisconsin).
> Thirteen states have laws related to breastfeeding in the workplace (California, Connecticut, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Minnesota, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas, and Washington).
> ...



If you even bug a breastfeeding mom you might be on the wrong side of the law.


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## Angel Heart (Aug 5, 2007)

http://www.parenting.com/parenting/mom/article/0,19840,647783_2,00.html?



> The right to breastfeed wherever you are
> 
> 
> If you have a right to be somewhere with your baby, you have a right to breastfeed there.
> ...



It's not a privilege. It's a RIGHT! 

I'm proud to say I was part of changing of the laws in California. The laws protecting the mother and child's right to breastfeed in public didn't get put in place until 1997.  Now 3/4ths of all new mommies nurse their babies. I know most don't make it through the first year but more and more are. Our society will be better because of it. Higher IQ, healthier immune systems etc etc come from breastfeeding our children. Human milk for human babies.


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## dilloduck (Aug 5, 2007)

MassageGirl said:


> Well, until YOU start having to wear a shirt everywhere you go, and the "nipple popping out" of YOUR tank top becomes this MAJOR ISSUE, then you dont really have a leg to stand on. Men have nipples, and so do women. Its NOT an issue to you, if a woman is showing the REST of her breast, asidr FROM the nipple area. BFD!!! So her nipple shows for a few minutes! I'm sure youve been to some bikini or wet T shirt contest. Grow up. Just because THESE women are NOURISHING a baby's stomach rather than your OGLING EYES, doesnt mean JACK.
> If the sight of a womans breasts are such a big friggin issue for you, why not try to outlaw these bikinis that show the bottoms or sides of breasts, or try to outlaw the wet t shirt contests? I know why, because you think that women should only be here to serve you, and thats all. Once we have stretch marks and tummy rolls, we are only useful for cooking your dinners, cleaning your house, and picking up your skid marked underwear, isnt that right?
> Get over yourself. I am so sick of all the male supremacy mysoginy on here. GAWD.




You ain't gonna beat us all up are ya?


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## Gunny (Aug 5, 2007)

MassageGirl said:


> PS It IS NOT a privilage to breastfeed in public. It is all a part of the NATURAL HUMAN NEED. It is no more a privilage to breastfeed ones baby in public than it is a privilage to have sex with someone youre attracted to in private, which by the way, is how babies are made.  For gods sake, what is your problem!!! Do you talk to your mother this way? Your sister?
> 
> What happened with your family? Your dad used to beat the crap out of your mom, and as a result, you no longer have any sensibility about you, or respect for women?



You're a little extreme on this issue to say the least.  

Is it allowable, or considered "good form" to eat in a public swimming pool?  No, it's against the rules of any I have ever been to.

You don't bring your lunch to church and eat during the sermon.

It's quite appropriate to regulate breast-feeding with some moderation and common sense, just as most people do in most other endeavors.


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## Angel Heart (Aug 5, 2007)

I was asked to leave a public mall's food court due to nursing my oldest. He was 3 months old and completely covered. How is that an inappropriate location? It's where the rest of us eat. I was approached by security and asked to "leave or take it in the bathroom".  This was a common attack on nursing mothers and their children. Now, thanks to groups like La Leche League, we have laws protecting the rights of mothers and children. We used nurse in's to get our message across. We got that message across so well that the state made it a law to leave nursing mothers and their children alone.


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## Gem (Aug 5, 2007)

Angel Heart,

I agree with you completely that women have the right to breastfeed wherever they need to...I have never argued otherwise.  I do not feel they should be harassed for trying to nourish their child and they should not be shoved into bathrooms while they do it.

I do think, however, that just as passerbys should give a nursing mother a break and leave her alone while she is nursing...that she should show similar respect for others by nursing as discreetly as is convenient.  I do not think people expect a woman to pitch a tent and hide herself in it - but likewise I don't think it is uncalled for to have a nursing mother drape a light blanket over herself and her child, or turn her chair, go to a quiet corner, etc.  That way the child can eat in peace, the mother won't be bothered by assholes...everyone wins.

I think that some in this thread have taken any opposition towards public breastfeeding as implying that the person wants breastfeeding women to hide in their homes and not come out until the child can eat steak....but that is so far from the truth its ridiculous.  I think most people here are just stating that there is a middle ground...one that gives the utmost respect to ALL people.  And isn't that what we are shooting for in our public spaces...situations where ALL people can be accommodated comfortably and respectfully?


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## Gunny (Aug 5, 2007)

Angel Heart said:


> I was asked to leave a public mall's food court due to nursing my oldest. He was 3 months old and completely covered. How is that an inappropriate location? It's where the rest of us eat. I was approached by security and asked to "leave or take it in the bathroom".  This was a common attack on nursing mothers and their children. Now, thanks to groups like La Leche League, we have laws protecting the rights of mothers and children. We used nurse in's to get our message across. We got that message across so well that the state made it a law to leave nursing mothers and their children alone.



One, I wouldn't want MY wife nursing a kid in public.  It doesn't matter how strongly you want to stand on what you feel is right ... what matters is "what is."  Our society is oversexed, and the human female breast is regarded as a sex object.

I personally don't understand why this has to be such a big deal, but it is, on BOTH sides.  Those who think they should be able to do whatever they want whenever and wherever, and those who take offense to each and every thing.


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## mattskramer (Aug 5, 2007)

MassageGirl said:


> It is no more a privilage to breastfeed ones baby in public than it is a privilage to have sex with someone youre attracted to in private, which by the way, is how babies are made.



Uh.  You switched the terms &#8220;public&#8221; and &#8220;private&#8221; invalidating the comparison.  Is it no more a privilege to breastfeed one&#8217;s baby in public than it is a privilege to have sex with someone you&#8217;re attracted to in public?


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## Angel Heart (Aug 5, 2007)

GunnyL said:


> One, I wouldn't want MY wife nursing a kid in public.  It doesn't matter how strongly you want to stand on what you feel is right ... what matters is "what is."  Our society is oversexed, and the human female breast is regarded as a sex object.
> 
> I personally don't understand why this has to be such a big deal, but it is, on BOTH sides.  Those who think they should be able to do whatever they want whenever and wherever, and those who take offense to each and every thing.



What if your wife had no issue with it? What about her thoughts on it all?


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## Shattered (Aug 5, 2007)

Angel Heart said:


> What if your wife had no issue with it? What about her thoughts on it all?



One would *think* ones wife would have enough respect for ones husband to not do something he obviously disapproves of, or seriously doesn't like, for whatever reason.


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## dilloduck (Aug 5, 2007)

Shattered said:


> One would *think* ones wife would have enough respect for ones husband to not do something he obviously disapproves of, or seriously doesn't like, for whatever reason.



Well if it wasn't for men we could all run around naked and do anything we wanted. Those bastards !


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## actsnoblemartin (Aug 6, 2007)

my point is be respectful about it, and do it discreetly, dont be flashing your tits, and having an attitude. You know you can be a jerk in public too, doesnt mean you should.

Common sense is all i ask.



Angel Heart said:


> http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/breast50.htm
> 
> 
> 
> If you even bug a breastfeeding mom you might be on the wrong side of the law.


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## Gunny (Aug 6, 2007)

Angel Heart said:


> What if your wife had no issue with it? What about her thoughts on it all?



I think I should be given the same consideration I have to give about her dislike for my not wearing a shirt in public.

If I'm "displaying the goods," what's SHE doing?


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## MassageGirl (Aug 7, 2007)

> Uh. You switched the terms public and private invalidating the comparison. Is it no more a privilege to breastfeed ones baby in public than it is a privilege to have sex with someone youre attracted to in public?



Nope I didnt switch anything. I said it that way to specifically make a point. Some people on here think that breastfeeding is a "privilage" (wheres the damn spell check on this, lol) to do in public. I think not. No more than having sex in PRIVATE is a privilage. 

And as far as you men showing your own nipples in public (by the way, I will say it again, if some men can grow breasts, and still go topless in public, it is not an issue about BREASTS, it is an issue about equal rights) I think its just fine, personally, but all nipples were created equal, so mine should just as easily be allowed to be exposed to the elements should I so choose to air them out.  Hell, its even a "concern" to many people that a woman wear a BRA. Now see? A mans nipples can be causing two little bumps in his shirt, and thats all good and fine, but if a woman isnt wearing a bra, its a big issue, why? Because some of you men cant just keep it in your friggin pants?

Grow up!!! Theyre NIPPLES. You have em too!!! Hell, and as far as chest size goes, there are many beefy men out there that can go shirtless, and beat a small breasted woman in chest AND nipple size, so PLEEEEEEEEEASE tell me what the big deal is? (Except the fact that you men want us women to be your personal sexual gatekeepers still!!!) Have some personal accountability, PLEASE. 

1 more example, just to top this camels back with a feather, and also because I now feel as though I am beating a dead horse:

If you dont want to see people kissing in public, you dont go rushing off to the courthouse, or writing letters to your state congressman trying to make kissing in public illegal. If you dont want to see it, YOU DONT LOOK. Pretty easy, right. If I dont care for looking at some shirtless guy with a fat belly and hair everywhere, I dont look. Do the same service for me and the rest of the women. If you dont care to see it, simply avert your gaze.  =)


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## Angel Heart (Aug 7, 2007)

Dang you're on a roll... 

ITA!!!!


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## Ruby (Aug 7, 2007)

actsnoblemartin said:


> I would agree, and since im an uncle, since only a few days ago, my sister will breast feed, so, i dont mind breast feeding in public as long as its done as discreetly as possible. I think mothers need to know its a privalege, not a right to breast feed in public, in other words, dont abuse it.



Actually it is a RIGHT and a RIGHT because it provides needed nutrition for a young baby. Anyone with hang-ups should be the ones hiding away and not join the public since they have so much trouble with all the things they might see.

Its also pretty funny how you begrudingly "allow" it since it now affects someone close to YOU. 

LOL dont abuse it??? Tell that to a hungry baby who NEEDS the nutrients to live, grow and thrive.

Breast feeding cannot be compared to whipping out your dick either, women are doing so to perform an act that provides vital nutrition for a small growing human being. The purpose it serves matters a great deal here.

Common decency is a very subjective concept btw and everchanging, I personally wouldnt  define getting "offended" over a mother feeding her baby to be displaying any kind of common decency but more like a display of a judgemental repressed tight ass, but thats just me.


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## Angel Heart (Aug 7, 2007)

Actually it's growth for him. He came out totally against it before.


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## Ruby (Aug 7, 2007)

Angel Heart said:


> Actually it's growth for him. He came out totally against it before.




For some reason that gives me a chuckle, dont know why but it does.


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## Gunny (Aug 7, 2007)

MassageGirl said:


> Nope I didnt switch anything. I said it that way to specifically make a point. Some people on here think that breastfeeding is a "privilage" (wheres the damn spell check on this, lol) to do in public. I think not. No more than having sex in PRIVATE is a privilage.
> 
> And as far as you men showing your own nipples in public (by the way, I will say it again, if some men can grow breasts, and still go topless in public, it is not an issue about BREASTS, it is an issue about equal rights) I think its just fine, personally, but all nipples were created equal, so mine should just as easily be allowed to be exposed to the elements should I so choose to air them out.  Hell, its even a "concern" to many people that a woman wear a BRA. Now see? A mans nipples can be causing two little bumps in his shirt, and thats all good and fine, but if a woman isnt wearing a bra, its a big issue, why? Because some of you men cant just keep it in your friggin pants?
> 
> ...



You need to grow up.  You can attempt to ignore the oversexed society we live in you want, but it doesn't make it go away.  

Since it i still illegal to expose a female breast in many places, it most certainly is NOT a right.

Breastfeeding in this case is actually secondary to your feminazi attitude.  Just like every other extremist, reality doesn't count, and who you offend doesn't matter just so long as you get to do what you've decided you're going to do.


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## Ruby (Aug 7, 2007)

GunnyL said:


> You need to grow up.  You can attempt to ignore the oversexed society we live in you want, but it doesn't make it go away.
> 
> Since it i still illegal to expose a female breast in many places, it most certainly is NOT a right.
> 
> Breastfeeding in this case is actually secondary to your feminazi attitude.  Just like every other extremist, reality doesn't count, and who you offend doesn't matter just so long as you get to do what you've decided you're going to do.




The society is oversexed so a baby shouldnt be fed? Keeping a naked breast from public view is more important than a baby getting its NEEDED food?

Its not about "so long as you get to do what you've decided to do", its FEEDING your child and last time I checked we are against "not feeding" our children since humans need FOOD to live.

Its better to fix such a screwed up society than to ask a baby to not eat when it needs and mothers to not feed their children.


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## Angel Heart (Aug 8, 2007)

In Oregon it's not...

http://www.llli.org/Law/Bills32.html



> ORS &#167; 109.001
> 1999 Ore. ALS 306; 1999 Ore. Laws 306; 1999 Ore. SB 744
> 
> A woman may breastfeed her child in a public place.



How's that for a simple law. Notice there's nothing about requiring her to cover up. No body around here cares. You go to the malls around here, most likely you will see at least one mom nursing in public. Some not covering up at all. No one cares. No one approaches them. It's a non-issue.



> ORS &#167; 10.050
> 999 Ore. ALS 1085; 1999 Ore. Laws 1085; 1999 Ore. SB 1304
> 
> ... (4) a Judge of the Court or Clerk of Court shall excuse a woman from acting as a juror upon the request of the woman if the woman is breastfeeding a child. A request for excuse from jury service under this subsection must be made in writing...



Makes sense. I like how they made it child and not baby.


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## Gunny (Aug 8, 2007)

Ruby said:


> The society is oversexed so a baby shouldnt be fed? Keeping a naked breast from public view is more important than a baby getting its NEEDED food?
> 
> Its not about "so long as you get to do what you've decided to do", its FEEDING your child and last time I checked we are against "not feeding" our children since humans need FOOD to live.
> 
> Its better to fix such a screwed up society than to ask a baby to not eat when it needs and mothers to not feed their children.



I din't say a baby shouldn't be fed.  But feeding it wherever you choose is akin to people taking a dump or a piss just because they "need" to, wherever and whenever they want.

It's better to ask the mother to use a little common sense when feeding her child.  That liberal mindset "everyone else should change to suit me" doesn't cut it.


----------



## Ruby (Aug 8, 2007)

GunnyL said:


> I din't say a baby shouldn't be fed.  But feeding it wherever you choose is akin to people taking a dump or a piss just because they "need" to, wherever and whenever they want.
> 
> It's better to ask the mother to use a little common sense when feeding her child.  That liberal mindset "everyone else should change to suit me" doesn't cut it.




Babies dont have much ability to "wait" yet. Babies who are breastfed need to eat more frequently and mothers and babies shouldnt have to go through circus hoops or be shut inside and away due to that fact. 

Common sense is to feed her baby who needs it and those who "cant handle" seeing it should use their common sense and look away or go to a different area or go home, why should what YOU need take precedence over what that baby needs? Why do you automatically think the mother and baby should accomodate you when your need to "not see a naked breast" is so much less important than the need for nutrition is.

It sounds to me like you are claiming to be a liberal. You are the one with a problem with viewing a naked breast in public so a mother can breastfeed a hungry baby and YOU want them to go do it in a way that will make YOU comfortable. Why arent you taking the responsiblity then to walk to a different area to make it all comfortable then? Arent you simply describing yourself as a person who wants others to change to suit you and isnt that what you described as a "liberal" way to think?

BTW, the piss and shit analogy isnt a good one. There are health reasons we do that in certain places. A woman revealing a breast in public and breast feeding a child does not pose a health risk.


----------



## hjmick (Aug 8, 2007)

You know, screw it. Just show us your boobs, all of you!


----------



## Shattered (Aug 8, 2007)

Ruby said:


> Babies dont have much ability to "wait" yet. Babies who are breastfed need to eat more frequently and mothers and babies shouldnt have to go through circus hoops or be shut inside and away due to that fact.
> 
> Common sense is to feed her baby who needs it and those who "cant handle" seeing it should use their common sense and look away or go to a different area or go home, why should what YOU need take precedence over what that baby needs? Why do you automatically think the mother and baby should accomodate you when your need to "not see a naked breast" is so much less important than the need for nutrition is.
> 
> ...




How about not being selfish and instead thinking OF your child?  Since when is all that chaos good for a nursing infant?  Isn't that why nurseries are so peaceful, complete with rocking chair, so one can nurse their child in peace, without all the hustle and bustle of the household?

Perhaps the mother could think about what's best for her child, rather than her own selfish "wants"?


----------



## Ruby (Aug 8, 2007)

hjmick said:


> You know, screw it. Just show us your boobs, all of you!



Will there be beads?


----------



## hjmick (Aug 8, 2007)

Ruby said:


> Will there be beads?



Ah, a fan of Mardi Gras I see. Sure, I have beads, they're Jimmy Buffett beads, but beads none the less.


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## Shattered (Aug 8, 2007)

Ruby said:


> Will there be beads?



If there are, I want the purple ones.


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## Ruby (Aug 8, 2007)

Shattered said:


> How about not being selfish and instead thinking OF your child?  Since when is all that chaos good for a nursing infant?  Isn't that why nurseries are so peaceful, complete with rocking chair, so one can nurse their child in peace, without all the hustle and bustle of the household?
> 
> Perhaps the mother could think about what's best for her child, rather than her own selfish "wants"?



No the whole rocking chair stuff is nice but its not neccessary at all. The nice pretty images are nice for TV, real life however dosent bare much resemblance. My son could eat and sleep through ANYTHING. Babies are soothed as long as the mother isnt stressed, the act of breast feeding and the mothers heart rate (which babies become accustomed to during the pregnancy) are extremely soothing. 

So again, it makes more sense for people not to try and stress a mother via guilt and shame when she has to feed her child. 

BTW, a mall or restaurant etc are not CHAOS, there is just more noise and babies arent that freaked out by noise unless its somthing they are not used to and even those that arent used to it will place their hunger as a higher priority. Do you think even most homes are so quiet? You dont think ringing phones, other siblings , noise from outside etc are also present when at home?


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## Gunny (Aug 8, 2007)

Ruby said:


> Babies dont have much ability to "wait" yet. Babies who are breastfed need to eat more frequently and mothers and babies shouldnt have to go through circus hoops or be shut inside and away due to that fact.
> 
> Common sense is to feed her baby who needs it and those who "cant handle" seeing it should use their common sense and look away or go to a different area or go home, why should what YOU need take precedence over what that baby needs? Why do you automatically think the mother and baby should accomodate you when your need to "not see a naked breast" is so much less important than the need for nutrition is.
> 
> ...



And again, by your logic, "common sense" says you should just "look the other way" when I whip it out and take a leak on the nearest tree.  After all, we wouldn't want me to get kidney stones, would we?  

It's a perfectly good analogy.  You just don't like it because it doesn't suit your argument.


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## Gunny (Aug 8, 2007)

hjmick said:


> Ah, a fan of Mardi Gras I see. Sure, I have beads, they're Jimmy Buffett beads, but beads none the less.



So how many do I get?  I'd wager I've got the biggest chest in this current discussion.


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## Shattered (Aug 8, 2007)

Ruby said:


> No the whole rocking chair stuff is nice but its not neccessary at all. The nice pretty images are nice for TV, real life however dosent bare much resemblance. My son could eat and sleep through ANYTHING. Babies are soothed as long as the mother isnt stressed, the act of breast feeding and the mothers heart rate (which babies become accustomed to during the pregnancy) are extremely soothing.
> 
> So again, it makes more sense for people not to try and stress a mother via guilt and shame when she has to feed her child.
> 
> BTW, a mall or restaurant etc are not CHAOS, there is just more noise and babies arent that freaked out by noise unless its somthing they are not used to and even those that arent used to it will place their hunger as a higher priority. Do you think even most homes are so quiet? You dont think ringing phones, other siblings , noise from outside etc are also present when at home?




If you're going to do something like ripping your shirt open in public, then you should expect to get attention for it.  The world is made up of all kinds of people.  Just because YOU are fine with it, doesn't mean the other 99.9% of the population is..

You reap what you sow...  If you're going to whip it out, and not make the least bit of effort to show a bit of modesty, expect to be the center of attention.  It's human nature.


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## Shattered (Aug 8, 2007)

GunnyL said:


> So how many do I get?  I'd wager I've got the biggest chest in this current discussion.



You just may..


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## Ruby (Aug 8, 2007)

GunnyL said:


> And again, by your logic, "common sense" says you should just "look the other way" when I whip it out and take a leak on the nearest tree.  After all, we wouldn't want me to get kidney stones, would we?
> 
> It's a perfectly good analogy.  You just don't like it because it doesn't suit your argument.



It is not SEEING your penis or your ass that I would object to, it would be the dirtying up of the enviroment with urine or feces that I would object to, its strictly a public health issue. I dont think you are objecting on a public health basis but more of a "personal preference" basis. Thats why your analogy falls apart. 

Secondly, we have a better ability to hold our bathroom needs til we reach a bathroom than an infant does at holding their hunger needs. Especially young infants who have trouble calming themselves once they get very upset and every second you delay a needed feeding escalates how upset the baby will get. 

Its not a health risk to hold your bathroom needs til you can reach a bathroom, it would only pose a health risk if you did this an extremely long time which there would be no valid reason for....there are bathrooms all over.


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## Ruby (Aug 8, 2007)

Shattered said:


> If you're going to do something like ripping your shirt open in public, then you should expect to get attention for it.  The world is made up of all kinds of people.  Just because YOU are fine with it, doesn't mean the other 99.9&#37; of the population is..
> 
> You reap what you sow...  If you're going to whip it out, and not make the least bit of effort to show a bit of modesty, expect to be the center of attention.  It's human nature.



Well then you must not be all that worried over stressing the baby afterall. Its good we can dispense with that.

 I dont recall seeing women RIPPING their shirts off to feed a baby either. Even the verbage you use is exaggerated. They unbutton, unzip or pull up or down...but I havent seen RIPPING! LOL!

You also just illustrated exactly why women do learn to just "deal" with other peoples ignorance and figure out how to ignore you and go forward with breastfeeding without shame. Of course I bet that attitude really annoys you. 

I also dont believe that 99.9% of the population behave or view it as you say. I think there are plenty of people that dont mind it a bit and are quite respectful about it all.


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## Shattered (Aug 8, 2007)

Ruby said:


> Well then you must not be all that worried over stressing the baby afterall. Its good we can dispense with that.
> 
> I dont recall seeing women RIPPING their shirts off to feed a baby either. Even the verbage you use is exaggerated. They unbutton, unzip or pull up or down...but I havent seen RIPPING! LOL!
> 
> ...




I'm quite respectful about it.. That doesn't mean I agree with it.  I think what's best for your child is a place wherein he/she is secure - his/her own surroundings.  Especially during something as intimate as feeding.  Like I said before, I can see the need for leaving the house with a nursing child - especially if you're a stay at home mother..  But, do what you need to do, and leave it at that.  A new mother does not "need" to be flitting around a mall for half the day just because she thinks she's going stir-crazy.  If she does, they make specific areas for breast-feeding...and surprisingly, it's a quiet room tucked away from the general public. It's not the center table of the mall food court.


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## hjmick (Aug 8, 2007)

Okay, I've read the thread, made note of the various arguments for and against, and now I have one question: Is it really that big of an issue?

Look, I'm not as conservative as a lot of members, on most social issues I either don't care or I lean towards the hedonistic. I guess my point is, if we consider the big picture, is a woman breast feeding in public really that big a deal? I guess this is just one of those social issues I just don't care about. In my opinion, there are more important things to concern ourselves with.


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## Shattered (Aug 8, 2007)

hjmick said:


> Okay, I've read the thread, made note of the various arguments for and against, and now I have one question: Is it really that big of an issue?
> 
> Look, I'm not as conservative as a lot of members, on most social issues I either don't care or I lean towards the hedonistic. I guess my point is, if we consider the big picture, is a woman breast feeding in public really that big a deal? I guess this is just one of those social issues I just don't care about. In my opinion, there are more important things to concern ourselves with.



Personally, no it's not that big of an issue.. But, when they start complaining they're being treated unfairly, start suing place for not catering to their demands, THEN it becomes a problem, and they're merely getting what they're asking for - headaches, and excess attention they claim to not want.

It's downright hypocritical, IMO.


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## hjmick (Aug 8, 2007)

Shattered said:


> Personally, no it's not that big of an issue.. But, when they start complaining they're being treated unfairly, start suing place for not catering to their demands, THEN it becomes a problem, and they're merely getting what they're asking for - headaches, and excess attention they claim to not want.
> 
> It's downright hypocritical, IMO.



Good point.


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## Ruby (Aug 8, 2007)

Shattered said:


> Personally, no it's not that big of an issue.. But, when they start complaining they're being treated unfairly, start suing place for not catering to their demands, THEN it becomes a problem, and they're merely getting what they're asking for - headaches, and excess attention they claim to not want.
> 
> It's downright hypocritical, IMO.



I dont think anyone is asking them to cater to their needs though, they just want to breast feed without being harrassed over it. Breast feeding women dont require ANY action of others to handle it, asking to not be harrassed seems a pretty fair request.


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## Shattered (Aug 8, 2007)

Ruby said:


> I dont think anyone is asking them to cater to their needs though, they just want to breast feed without being harrassed over it. Breast feeding women dont require ANY action of others to handle it, asking to not be harrassed seems a pretty fair request.



If you don't want to be harrassed, don't put yourself or your child in a situation where you know that *somebody* is going to harrass you.  There are specific rooms set aside in almost ALL public places for you to feed your child - what's your gripe against using them?


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## Shattered (Aug 8, 2007)

Incidently, you used the term "cater to their needs" - I used the term "cater to their demands"..  There's a major difference.. Their needs are being met by including specific areas allotted for just breastfeeding.  Their demands are nothing more than an insistance that they be able to do it where and when they want, no matter what.


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## Angel Heart (Aug 8, 2007)

Ruby said:


> No the whole rocking chair stuff is nice but its not neccessary at all. The nice pretty images are nice for TV, real life however dosent bare much resemblance. My son could eat and sleep through ANYTHING. Babies are soothed as long as the mother isnt stressed, the act of breast feeding and the mothers heart rate (which babies become accustomed to during the pregnancy) are extremely soothing.
> 
> So again, it makes more sense for people not to try and stress a mother via guilt and shame when she has to feed her child.
> 
> BTW, a mall or restaurant etc are not CHAOS, there is just more noise and babies arent that freaked out by noise unless its somthing they are not used to and even those that arent used to it will place their hunger as a higher priority. Do you think even most homes are so quiet? You dont think ringing phones, other siblings , noise from outside etc are also present when at home?



I would vacume around my kids while they where sleeping so as not to have them senstive to noise. I now have kids that can sleep through just about anything.


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## Angel Heart (Aug 8, 2007)

Shattered said:


> If you don't want to be harrassed, don't put yourself or your child in a situation where you know that *somebody* is going to harrass you.  There are specific rooms set aside in almost ALL public places for you to feed your child - what's your gripe against using them?



Well it's a good thing I live in Oregon where a) the law protects me and my choices of where to feed my children and b) people are not as up tight about it. 

I take great joy in seeing a nursing mother out in public not feeling shamed by someone else's hang ups. People don't bug the moms anymore. I take pride in knowing that I made it possible for their to feed their child in peace (even if it's in public).


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## Shattered (Aug 8, 2007)

Angel Heart said:


> Well it's a good thing I live in Oregon where a) the law protects me and my choices of where to feed my children and b) people are not as up tight about it.
> 
> I take great joy in seeing a nursing mother out in public not feeling shamed by someone else's hang ups. People don't bug the moms anymore. I take pride in knowing that I made it possible for their to feed their child in peace (even if it's in public).



So your entire hangup about not using the areas specifically built for such things is nothing more than petty spite, and an "I can do what I want - fuck you if you don't like it!" attitude?

Way to go, MOM!  Yeah!

If my assumption is incorrect, then tell me exactly WHY you'd rather whip your chest out in public, rather than in peace and quiet?


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## Angel Heart (Aug 8, 2007)

Shattered said:


> So your entire hangup about not using the areas specifically built for such things is nothing more than petty spite, and an "I can do what I want - fuck you if you don't like it!" attitude?
> 
> Way to go, MOM!  Yeah!
> 
> If my assumption is incorrect, then tell me exactly WHY you'd rather whip your chest out in public, rather than in peace and quiet?



Oh so I should plan out where I go based on if they have a room for it or not?  Not all places have nursing rooms. How about the zoo. Should I have to track all the way back to the entrance? How about at Disneyland? They don't have nursing rooms all over the place. 

Best peace for a child is getting fed when they ask for it. Not when mama can find a room so as not to piss off some prude.


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## Shattered (Aug 8, 2007)

Angel Heart said:


> Oh so I should plan out where I go based on if they have a room for it or not?  Not all places have nursing rooms. How about the zoo. Should I have to track all the way back to the entrance? How about at Disneyland? They don't have nursing rooms all over the place.
> 
> Best peace for a child is getting fed when they ask for it. Not when mama can find a room so as not to piss off some prude.



I already made it perfectly clear you're not pissing ME off, personally..

However, you have no right to expect society to react the same as I do.. If you're going to whip it out in public, don't bother getting all pissy and offended when you get harrassed for it.


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## Shattered (Aug 8, 2007)

Angel Heart said:


> Oh so I should plan out where I go based on if they have a room for it or not?  Not all places have nursing rooms. How about the zoo. Should I have to track all the way back to the entrance? How about at Disneyland? They don't have nursing rooms all over the place.
> 
> Best peace for a child is getting fed when they ask for it. Not when mama can find a room so as not to piss off some prude.



While you're at it, you plan family vacations based around hotels and other events having provisions for your OTHER children, yes?  Why would a nursing child not be entitled to the same consideration?  Or, is it because they're too young to protest, and you think they *LIKE* having the entire world circling around them while they eat?


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## Angel Heart (Aug 8, 2007)

In Oregon they don't respond. They can't. It's protected. Same in California. 

The only time I had an issue was that one security guard. He lost his job over it.


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## Shattered (Aug 8, 2007)

Angel Heart said:


> In Oregon they don't respond. They can't. It's protected. Same in California.
> 
> The only time I had an issue was that one security guard. He lost his job over it.



Then for the love of the rest of society who doesn't WANT to see your chest in all it's glory, and who actually SHOW some consideration for those around by using the areas specifically provided for such things, OR doing so in a discreet manner, don't ever move.


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## Angel Heart (Aug 8, 2007)

Thought it wasn't an issue. You sure seem defensive for it being a non issue for you.

You will not be getting me to change my point of view. I lost count of how many times I've nursed in public. I've had 5 kids. I nursed them all. The shortest for 14 months, the longest 3 years 3 months. If I have another, I might go beyond 4 years old. It will be up to the child, not me. 

I personally feel offended by seeing a bottle feed child. I think it's robbing the child. I think that people who choose not to nurse for reasons other than medical are selfish. 

I'm not even go into how I feel about formula companies.


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## maineman (Aug 8, 2007)

in my travels around the world, I have witnessed many many mothers breast feeding their children...and not once would I have characterized their actions as displaying their chest "in all its glory".  In every instance, it was discreet and unobtrusive.


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## Ruby (Aug 8, 2007)

Shattered said:


> I already made it perfectly clear you're not pissing ME off, personally..
> 
> However, you have no right to expect society to react the same as I do.. If you're going to whip it out in public, don't bother getting all pissy and offended when you get harrassed for it.



Thats a strange stance, you seem to actually think its justified to harrass a nursing mother and would blame her for it? Shall we also blame women for being harrassed because they dressed too sexy or looked to pretty so they should "expect" it? Are people with jewelry or a nice car "expecting" to get mugged so they should also just suck it up too?

I understand someone may not like it and they certainly dont have to, but its taking it too far when they actively harrass a woman for it.

There just arent rooms all over to breast-feed and moms have to do the best they can and while I am sure its not up to your standards and you will defend people who harrass her for it cause she should "expect" I remain glad in the fact that I dont think there that many people out there that would do such a thing.


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## 90K (Aug 8, 2007)

maineman said:


> in my travels around the world, I have witnessed many many mothers breast feeding their children...and not once would I have characterized their actions as displaying their chest "in all its glory".  In every instance, it was discreet and unobtrusive.



Indeed correct MM it just seems now days we need to see this and we are expected to except it.  Even in Europe where nudity is the norm even on regular TV they know how to have some diginity when breast feeding.  I see this whole deal as a bunch of childish women wanting attention.  
  If I were on a plane or other public transportation and a women started this open breast nursing I'd tell her to put it away and I'd make a stink about it because really it is rude and dis-respectful.  I would never say anything if a women was descreet and was respectful about the affair of feed her child.


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## Angel Heart (Aug 8, 2007)

90K said:


> Indeed correct MM it just seems now days we need to see this and we are expected to except it.  Even in Europe where nudity is the norm even on regular TV they know how to have some diginity when breast feeding.  I see this whole deal as a bunch of childish women wanting attention.
> If I were on a plane or other public transportation and a women started this open breast nursing I'd tell her to put it away and I'd make a stink about it because really it is rude and dis-respectful.  I would never say anything if a women was descreet and was respectful about the affair of feed her child.



You'd rather not see a breast vs having a child screaming in pain. Best way to solve a babies ear presser is to nurse. The flight attendants actually encourage it. So, because you have a hang up, a baby must suffer?


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## Angel Heart (Aug 8, 2007)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15755898/



> Breast-feeding mothers stage nurse-in
> Angry moms protest treatment of passenger kicked off for feeding baby
> 
> Updated: 4:03 p.m. PT Nov 16, 2006
> ...


----------



## maineman (Aug 8, 2007)

Angel Heart said:


> You'd rather not see a breast vs having a child screaming in pain. Best way to solve a babies ear presser is to nurse. The flight attendants actually encourage it. So, because you have a hang up, a baby must suffer?



exactly.  It is not like infants have some sort of set routine.  Their appetite is not on a clock and when they get hungry, they have only one way of letting mom know that they are hungry.  Good moms who are breast feeding will feed their hungry child and those around her should be thankful that she has  stopped the wallering and for crissakes, there is no need to stare.  Mom doesn't want to "show you her tits", she just wants to feed her hungry child the only food the child knows.


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## Angel Heart (Aug 8, 2007)

maineman said:


> exactly.  It is not like infants have some sort of set routine.  Their appetite is not on a clock and when they get hungry, they have only one way of letting mom know that they are hungry.  Good moms who are breast feeding will feed their hungry child and those around her should be thankful that she has  stopped the wallering and for crissakes, there is no need to stare.  Mom doesn't want to "show you her tits", she just wants to feed her hungry child the only food the child knows.




Too many act like it's about the mother. It's about the child and what the child needs.


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## hjmick (Aug 8, 2007)

maineman said:


> Mom doesn't want to "show you her tits", she just wants to feed her hungry child the only food the child knows.



She doesn't? Damn. Friggin' kids.


----------



## Shattered (Aug 8, 2007)

maineman said:


> in my travels around the world, I have witnessed many many mothers breast feeding their children...and not once would I have characterized their actions as displaying their chest "in all its glory".  *In every instance, it was discreet and unobtrusive.*



Those being the key words - discreet and unobtrusive.  I have yet to see a single person complain about a mother thats semi-covered.


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## maineman (Aug 8, 2007)

Angel Heart said:


> Too many act like it's about the mother. It's about the child and what the child needs.



imagine how outraged some of these sanctimonious prudes would be if they were on a bus with a mom and a bottle-fed infant, the infant started screaming for his bottle, which mom had two of in the accessory bag on the seat next to her, and she callously refused to give one of them to her child and allowed the child to continue the piercing screams that were annoying the entire bus.


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## Shattered (Aug 8, 2007)

Ruby said:


> Thats a strange stance, you seem to actually think its justified to harrass a nursing mother and would blame her for it? Shall we also blame women for being harrassed because they dressed too sexy or looked to pretty so they should "expect" it? Are people with jewelry or a nice car "expecting" to get mugged so they should also just suck it up too?
> 
> I understand someone may not like it and they certainly dont have to, but its taking it too far when they actively harrass a woman for it.
> 
> There just arent rooms all over to breast-feed and moms have to do the best they can and while I am sure its not up to your standards and you will defend people who harrass her for it cause she should "expect" I remain glad in the fact that I dont think there that many people out there that would do such a thing.




First of all, you're mistaken in your belief that I'm defending EITHER side in this discussion.  I pointed out, quite clearly, that it doesn't offend me PERSONALLY.  However, I am not the "masses", and the "masses" are what one has to deal with when they make a conscious decision to not use the least bit of common decency.

Is it *really* that hard to bring a light blanket, and just cover up a little bit?  I'm willing to bet 99.9% of all people have an extra one in the diaper bag they're already carrying.

And for the record, yes..if you're going to dress like a tramp, you should probably expect to be treated as one..  We are the image we make a conscious effort to display.


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## actsnoblemartin (Aug 8, 2007)

Women who dress like whores (not all obviously), should not complain when men jeer at or harass them. If you act like a ho, your gonna be treated as such.

And yes, if you flaunt wealth in peoples face, expect to get bitch slapped for being a jackass

And i would point out, you get treated the way you dress and conduct yourself. 

Today too many women, are not acting lady like, but dressing like whores and sleeping around. And dont worry, im not exactly thrilled with my gender either.



Ruby said:


> Thats a strange stance, you seem to actually think its justified to harrass a nursing mother and would blame her for it? Shall we also blame women for being harrassed because they dressed too sexy or looked to pretty so they should "expect" it? Are people with jewelry or a nice car "expecting" to get mugged so they should also just suck it up too?
> 
> I understand someone may not like it and they certainly dont have to, but its taking it too far when they actively harrass a woman for it.
> 
> There just arent rooms all over to breast-feed and moms have to do the best they can and while I am sure its not up to your standards and you will defend people who harrass her for it cause she should "expect" I remain glad in the fact that I dont think there that many people out there that would do such a thing.


----------



## maineman (Aug 8, 2007)

actsnoblemartin said:


> Women who dress like whores (not all obviously), should not complain when men jeer at or harass them. If you act like a ho, your gonna be treated as such.
> 
> And yes, if you flaunt wealth in peoples face, expect to get bitch slapped for being a jackass
> 
> ...



have you ever even SEEN a mother nurse her child in public?


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## mattskramer (Aug 8, 2007)

maineman said:


> have you ever even SEEN a mother nurse her child in public?



I did.  It was at a restaurant.  She was at a corner table.  She was well covered up  too well covered in my opinion. (Wink)  Just kidding. I was able to notice the babys lips and the end of the mothers breast without having to stare or concentrate. She was modest about it.


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## actsnoblemartin (Aug 8, 2007)

With all due respect, your comments are a bit mean. I dont think its fair or you to say, its like taking a dump, or a piss. I agree with you common sense, and discreetness should be used, but common, you think comparing, breast feeing which is neccesary for someone other then the mother, to live, and taking a dump, or a piss, which you have full control over, is fair, or nice?




GunnyL said:


> I din't say a baby shouldn't be fed.  But feeding it wherever you choose is akin to people taking a dump or a piss just because they "need" to, wherever and whenever they want.
> 
> It's better to ask the mother to use a little common sense when feeding her child.  That liberal mindset "everyone else should change to suit me" doesn't cut it.


----------



## actsnoblemartin (Aug 8, 2007)

I dont have a problem with women breast feeding in public, I have talked to my sister about this, and had a change of heart. I simply think the breast should be covered, as consideration of others, who maybe dont want to see her breast.

I dont think we disagree here, and I should point out, I dont like immodesty. I dont like men, who just use women for sex, atleast be honest about it. In other words, I have issues with both genders.

I dont think we have an argument here lol 



maineman said:


> have you ever even SEEN a mother nurse her child in public?


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## Gem (Aug 8, 2007)

I think the point that needs to be stressed is that most people here that I have seen are NOT talking about a woman discreetly feeding her child in public.  They are not talking about a woman calmly and as privately as possible feeding her child on a plane, bus, in a restaurant, in a food court, etc.  

To those women, they are saying - "Thank you.  Thank you for a) breastfeeding your child with is a natural, normal, healthy, beautiful thing.  But also b) Thank you for respecting that other people in this world may not want to watch you do so.  

I have nothing but contempt for a person who chooses to harass or belittle a woman who is trying to discreetly feed her child.  However, I also have noting but contempt for a woman who uses her child's need to breastfeed as a political platform - deliberately displaying her breasts in public spaces when it would be just as simple to be more modest in the hopes that someone will ask her to cover up slightly so she can shriek about how beautiful breastfeeding is and what a prude the person asking is.

Women have the right to breastfeed in public...other individuals have the right to walk around in public without seeing nudity.  You can call people who don't want to see a woman's breasts any time of names you want, but in the end - youre just being the type of person who belittles and mocks someone who has the audacity to disagree with you.  

Since both individuals - the mother and the "other individual" have rights - then the most simple answer is for both individuals to be respectful of eachother.  The mother can try to be discreet...the other individual can be a bit more understanding and respectful.  

If all involved would do this - this wouldn't have to be a 7 page thread.  The problem is we have woman who choose to deliberately make this a political issue (which is, in my opinion, unfair to their children) and breastfeed very obviously and indiscreetly in public in the hopes of being questioned.  And we have individuals who refused to simply look away, and harass a mother who is simply trying to feed their children as discreetly as possible.  To both of these groups, shame on you.

I just think its important to note that within this thread...most of the people arguing for discretion are not against women breast-feeding in public...they just want everyone involved to have respect for each other...not just themselves.


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## Shattered (Aug 8, 2007)

> I have nothing but contempt for a person who chooses to harass or belittle a woman who is trying to discreetly feed her child. However, I also have noting but contempt for a woman who uses her child's need to breastfeed as a political platform - deliberately displaying her breasts in public spaces when it would be just as simple to be more modest in the hopes that someone will ask her to cover up slightly so she can shriek about how beautiful breastfeeding is and what a prude the person asking is.















Ok, so I don't have one that says "woman" - it'll have to do.


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## Ruby (Aug 8, 2007)

The reason that women politicized it was because many women who were discreetly breast-feeding their babies were harrassed and thrown out of establishments. There has only been one way to change things, to go public and make it a very public issue so that we could change things.

Using our breasts in a sexual manner has not ever been much of a complaint but when women were using breasts to feed babies they were harrassed.


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## Ruby (Aug 8, 2007)

Shattered said:


> First of all, you're mistaken in your belief that I'm defending EITHER side in this discussion.  I pointed out, quite clearly, that it doesn't offend me PERSONALLY.  However, I am not the "masses", and the "masses" are what one has to deal with when they make a conscious decision to not use the least bit of common decency.
> 
> Is it *really* that hard to bring a light blanket, and just cover up a little bit?  I'm willing to bet 99.9% of all people have an extra one in the diaper bag they're already carrying.
> 
> And for the record, yes..if you're going to dress like a tramp, you should probably expect to be treated as one..  We are the image we make a conscious effort to display.




So we get to actually harrass people over how they dress too? It sound to me like you advocate people becoming active on their judgements of others. Its fine to not like how someone dresses or think they dress like a tramp BUT again I see you actually support that person being HARRASSED over it. 

None of this sounds like personal freedom is honored or thought of in much regard, not much room for people to be different without having to fear harrassment over it. That always seems like it must stem from insecurity and a need to make others around you conform your standards in order to validate you.

Things like breast-feeding and how a person dresses DOES NOT REALLY AFFECT you so why in the world would it be ok to harrass people over such things when it can be easily solved by looking away? Only you control your eyes, you arent going to be able to control others ACTIONS that really have no affect over you. Harrassment or support of such harrrassment is sad path to take.


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## Ruby (Aug 8, 2007)

actsnoblemartin said:


> Women who dress like whores (not all obviously), should not complain when men jeer at or harass them. If you act like a ho, your gonna be treated as such.
> 
> And yes, if you flaunt wealth in peoples face, expect to get bitch slapped for being a jackass
> 
> ...




The fact that you support harrassing or jeering at a woman cause you dont like how she dresses is just plain pathetic and sad. How would you like it if a group of men did this to your sister and she came home crying cause she felt scard and humiliated? You might say she was dressed fine and not like a ho, but guess what....thats subjective and maybe those group of men will say as far as they were concerned she wasnt covered up enough and had too much make up on and had obviously done her hair to look attractive.

Why do you think its ok to tell anyone how to dress or they must live by your dress code, or the guy next doors? I am sure we have men in our society who think women should only show their eyeballs and the rest should be coverred up, should they get to run around and harrass all women who arent?

If people choose to sleep around, it is their choice and their business. It is not an excuse to harrass them. Breast feeding nor how people dress nor how many people they sleep with AFFECTS you so you would have no right to actively interferre or harrass them over such things.


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## Angel Heart (Aug 9, 2007)

Ruby said:


> The reason that women politicized it was because many women who were discreetly breast-feeding their babies were harrassed and thrown out of establishments. There has only been one way to change things, to go public and make it a very public issue so that we could change things.
> 
> Using our breasts in a sexual manner has not ever been much of a complaint but when women were using breasts to feed babies they were harrassed.



  exactly.


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## dilloduck (Aug 9, 2007)

Angel Heart said:


> exactly.



breast feed in public-----do what ever you want in public-------just don't bitch about spectators. Are we all supposed to pretend your frickin invisible ?


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## Gem (Aug 9, 2007)

Ruby Wrote:


> The reason that women politicized it was because many women who were discreetly breast-feeding their babies were harrassed and thrown out of establishments. There has only been one way to change things, to go public and make it a very public issue so that we could change things.
> 
> Using our breasts in a sexual manner has not ever been much of a complaint but when women were using breasts to feed babies they were harrassed.



And I think that most here would agree with you that no woman who is discreetly breast-feeding her child should be harassed by a stranger because she has needed to breast-feed in public.

In that case, I do think that fighting for a right to breast-feed is the right thing to do..again, I think that most people here agree with you.

What people who are asking for discretion on both sides are looking for from you and others...is agreement that breast-feeding in public is something that can be done discreetly and with respect for all involved (the mother, the baby, and...because you have chosen to breast-feed in public...the public is now part of the equation).  

We keep saying that all we want is for a woman who is feeding her child discreetly and respectfully to be left alone and treated with respect.  We agree that women who are harassed while doing that should make sure that the law is on their side.

But we are also saying that women who choose to make a political issue out of breastfeeding by harassing those around her with very obvious, indiscreet breastfeeding for no other reason than to make other people uncomfortable (and while most women who breastfeed discreetly...most people here who are arguing this point have at least one story, if not more, of a woman doing just this...so it happens too) is just as wrong as the person harassing the mother who is feeding her child as privately as possible given the location.

I don't think that the way to win a political argument such as this one is to go from one end of the spectrum to the other...a woman who is harassed while being discreet should not, in my opinion, fire back by walking into a food court, unbuttoning her top, and start feeding her child with one breast while the other is prominently out for every 14-year-old boy in the food court at a huge mall to see (something I witnessed in Towson, MD).  

When a security guard quietly and very politely (I was within hearing range) asked her to cover her other breast...she SCREAMED that the law was on her side and that "IF YOU CONSERVATIVE PRUDES CAN'T HANDLE A BOOBIE THAT WASN'T BEING FLASHED BY AN 18 YEAR OLD IN A BIKINI THEN THATS YOUR PROBLEM, NOT MINE, NOW FUCK OFF, YOU PERVERT BEFORE I CALL A REAL COP!"

This woman, in my opinion, was obviously using her child to stage her political point -that she should be able to do whatever she wanted and everyone else around her be damned.  And you know what, shes right, the law might have been on her side, but that doesn't mean her behavior was right, appropriate, or respectful...

And THAT is really what I think many people here are asking you and others to recognize...that just as it is not right, appropriate or respectful to approach a woman discreetly (or trying to be discreet and accidentally her breasts come into view momentarily) breast-feeding her child and give her a hard time...it is NOT right to use your child and your body to breastfeed obviously and graphically for no other purpose than to make other people feel uncomfortable in public spaces.  The law might be on the mothers side....that doesn't mean its right for a woman to act this way.

Thats the kind of behavior we are now asking you, Ruby and others, to condemn, just as we have condemned idiots who approach women and harass them when they are being polite and respectful of others.


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## maineman (Aug 9, 2007)

In a perfect world, I agree with Gem that all that would really be needed is a degree of respect and discretion on both sides of the equation.

In a perfect world, the constitution of the united states would not have been written denying women the right to vote.  In the real world, women had to demonstrate and "get in the face" of men complacent with having all the electoral power.  It took a long time, but it worked.

In the real world, women ARE harrassed about breast feeding, and until everyone acknowledges every woman's right to do so, no woman has the right to do so... and perhaps some form of "in your face" behavior is needed, and might be effective, even if it is not polite.


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## Angel Heart (Aug 9, 2007)

dilloduck said:


> breast feed in public-----do what ever you want in public-------just don't bitch about spectators. Are we all supposed to pretend your frickin invisible ?



Oh, I got over the people who stare years ago. Ones I have problems with are the ones that think they can force me to change.


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## Gem (Aug 9, 2007)

maineman wrote:


> In the real world, women ARE harrassed about breast feeding, and until everyone acknowledges every woman's right to do so, no woman has the right to do so... and perhaps some form of "in your face" behavior is needed, and might be effective, even if it is not polite.



I agree that women are harassed about breast feeding.  I agree that work needs to be done to make sure that a woman's right to breastfeed in public is known and supported by all people.

I'm not sure I agree that an "in your face" option is the way to go...unless you mean staging "nurse-ins" that involve numerous moms nursing _discreetly and respectfully_.  THAT is a nurse-in I would support...because it sends the message that women are trying to do nothing other than feed their children without being harassed...NOT make some sort of political statement about feminism or the right to be naked from the waist up just like men.  That is when they lose people who normally would support them whole-heartedly.


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## maineman (Aug 9, 2007)

Gem said:


> maineman wrote:
> 
> 
> I agree that women are harassed about breast feeding.  I agree that work needs to be done to make sure that a woman's right to breastfeed in public is known and supported by all people.
> ...




I totally agree.  I think breast feeding has very little to do with "feminism" and everything to do with nurturing and motherhood.

Not everyone will agree with the aspirations of feminists, but everyone NEEDS to accept the best intentions of mothers.


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## Kagom (Aug 10, 2007)

Personally, I don't care if a woman is breast feeding in front of me.


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## manu1959 (Aug 10, 2007)

if you don't swallow is it breast feeding?


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## Gem (Aug 10, 2007)

LOL.  Ok, even I am willing to admit that this thread jumped the shark long ago.


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## Shattered (Aug 10, 2007)

Angel Heart said:


> Oh, I got over the people who stare years ago. *Ones I have problems with are the ones that think they can force me to change*.



That phrase, right there, speaks absolute deafening volumes about *why* you choose to breast feed in public, and it certainly isn't concern for your child.  Gem referenced something akin to political grandstanding.  She hit the nail on the head, and you are the type of person she's describing.

You are the person who will purposely sit dead in the middle of the food court at a mall, during the busiest part of the day, without the cover of a blanket, and will scream bloody murder if anyone dares give you even a second look because you're showing three times more than what's necessary to feed your child.


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## Annie (Aug 10, 2007)

Shattered said:


> That phrase, right there, speaks absolute deafening volumes about *why* you choose to breast feed in public, and it certainly isn't concern for your child.  Gem referenced something akin to political grandstanding.  She hit the nail on the head, and you are the type of person she's describing.
> 
> You are the person who will purposely sit dead in the middle of the food court at a mall, during the busiest part of the day, without the cover of a blanket, and will scream bloody murder if anyone dares give you even a second look because you're showing three times more than what's necessary to feed your child.



Assuming your assumption true, what does that have to do with the nexus of the thread? Let's assume, after all these posts that most nursing mothers are trying to do so discreetly, just not forced into johns.


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## Shattered (Aug 10, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> Assuming your assumption true, what does that have to do with the nexus of the thread? Let's assume, after all these posts that most nursing mothers are trying to do so discreetly, just not forced into johns.



I don't agree they need to be forced into actual bathrooms.. If there are places specifically for breast feeding that are quiet and out of the way, (such as the ones we have here, complete with couches, rockers, and anything else you need) why not use them?

If, some place (like Disneyland?) doesn't have them, and the only other alternative IS to feed your child on a park bench, and you're doing so discreetly, odds are pretty good you're not going to be bothered.  If by some chance you ARE bothered, I'm also willing to bet the hounds of hell will come down on the person bothering you just by the people within earshot.

Most nursing mothers I've seen ARE discreet - either covered by a blanket, wearing a larger "over" shirt, or just surrounded BY the people she's with.. There are a few that are pretty out there, however, and THOSE are the ones that wonder why they're being harrassed.  Angel is obviously (by her posts) one of them.


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## Angel Heart (Aug 11, 2007)

You don't know that for a fact and I can tell you that you got it totally wrong. I choose to nurse my children not on making a statement but on the fact that they needed to be fed. I nursed on demand. That means when my child wanted to nurse, they nursed. 

As far as your idea for ideal public nursing... 

Keeping a child over a few months old under a blanket or even a baggy shirt isn't always possible. Children are curious. They want to look around. Even while they eat. Anyone that knows early childhood development would know that. The ideas you have are ideal for only babies under the first few months. What about after that?


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## dilloduck (Aug 11, 2007)

Angel Heart said:


> Oh, I got over the people who stare years ago. Ones I have problems with are the ones that think they can force me to change.



And the ones who prefer that you made a serious attempt at being discrete probably don't appreciate you trying to force them to change either. You know full well there are breastfeeding mothers out there who flaunt it and  are just DARING  someone to say something.


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## Shattered (Aug 11, 2007)

Angel Heart said:


> You don't know that for a fact and I can tell you that you got it totally wrong. I choose to nurse my children not on making a statement but on the fact that they needed to be fed. I nursed on demand. That means when my child wanted to nurse, they nursed.
> 
> As far as your idea for ideal public nursing...
> 
> Keeping a child over a few months old under a blanket or even a baggy shirt isn't always possible. Children are curious. They want to look around. Even while they eat. Anyone that knows early childhood development would know that. The ideas you have are ideal for only babies under the first few months. What about after that?



What I noticed is that you spent more time gloating about a fired security guard, and "proving your point", and chanting that you're the reason a law was changed, than debating the thread and/or stated that you make every effort to pratice decency.  Your attitude is that of the type of person that *would* be harrassed, because tho you only need to show about an A cups worth, you're showing the whole bloody DD cups worth.


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## MassageGirl (Aug 13, 2007)

Actually, women can walk around with the majority of their breasts showing, the only exception is the nipple. Since many nipples are the same size as a mans, I fail to see the big friggin deal about an inch and a half of skin showing. 

Obviously there are some people out there who fail to see that both men and women have the same stuff up top, or even that some men have bigger chests than many women's breasts, but hey, I guess its all about whether or not you have a penis in this world. Equal rights mean nothing still, OBVIOUSLY.


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## Hellsrebel (Aug 13, 2007)

Ok I've read what everyone here has to say. Now heres my view on the matter. I am a nursing mother, and its not always possible to cover up. I've tried many times, only to have my 7 month old daughter start screaming and pull her blanket away. It's not always possible to go to a private area, and I will not go into a bathroom to nurse. I take the bus alot, and sometimes have to nurse my daughter while setting there and waiting. I wont make her go with out because someone has the nurve to come up to me and tell me I'm a fucken whore for showing my boob while I was in the process of feeding my baby. Who at the time was cranky from getting her shots and just plain out hungry. Not every baby eats at the same time every day, mine doesn't. so what am I supposed to not leave my house because someones going to be offended by me nursing my daughter. I don't think so. I have a 3 year old who spends alot of time at the doctors and I usually take the bus to these appointments. He only has me to take him, so what am I supposed to cancle all of the appointments because I may have to set out in PUBLIC and nurse. No, because that wouldn't be fair to my sons development, now would it? I cant affored a breast pump so bottle feeding hers no an option. even if it was, she wont take a bottle as it is.


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## Hellsrebel (Aug 13, 2007)

MassageGirl said:


> Actually, women can walk around with the majority of their breasts showing, the only exception is the nipple. Since many nipples are the same size as a mans, I fail to see the big friggin deal about an inch and a half of skin showing.
> 
> Obviously there are some people out there who fail to see that both men and women have the same stuff up top, or even that some men have bigger chests than many women's breasts, but hey, I guess its all about whether or not you have a penis in this world. Equal rights mean nothing still, OBVIOUSLY.



I fully agree with you on that. I know plenty of men whos chest is bigger the mine. But, I don't hear anyone complaining about that.


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## ReillyT (Aug 13, 2007)

I can't believe that there is actually a vigorous debate about this.  They are nipples.  We all have them.  If nature demands that we forgoe a little tight-ass modesty in order to make it easier for mothers to feed their children, well then I think we should be able to manage it.  Haven't any of you ever taken your children to an art museum?


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## dilloduck (Aug 13, 2007)

Hellsrebel said:


> I fully agree with you on that. I know plenty of men whos chest is bigger the mine. But, I don't hear anyone complaining about that.



No one's bitching here--walk around topless all you want. Get all your friends to join you. No one cares.


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## Shogun (Aug 16, 2007)

This issue is much like the smoking bans in bars in my opinion.  It's not about morality or modesty.  It's about the rights of the owner of a business to make a decision regarding his own business which will influence, positively or negatively, his business.  If they want to allow or ban smoking or lactivists or loud kids then they should have the right to refuse service and deal with the fallout.


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## MassageGirl (Aug 16, 2007)

> so what am I supposed to not leave my house because someones going to be offended by me nursing my daughter. I don't think so. I have a 3 year old who spends alot of time at the doctors and I usually take the bus to these appointments. He only has me to take him, so what am I supposed to cancle all of the appointments because I may have to set out in PUBLIC and nurse. No, because that wouldn't be fair to my sons development, now would it? I cant affored a breast pump so bottle feeding hers no an option. even if it was, she wont take a bottle as it is



Woman, nurse away!!! You have EQUAL rights to ANY man. If a man can get on the bus and have his tank top flip open to reveal his big ol man boobies, then a woman can friggin breast feed, lol... 

This is an equal rights issue. We are NOT the sexual gatekeepers for men. We are not responsible for keeping their penises in their pants. They can just learn to have some self control!!! =) 

PS Dont let they hype get to you.. its just that womens rights havent come as far as many of us think. There are a LOT of double standards.. this is just the tip of the iceberg.. Remember.. Men that get a lot of action are still considered "studs", and women who get a lot of action are still considered "sluts". Gay people are still called "fags", and black people are still sometimes called "*******". We have a lot of enlightening that needs to be done in this country.. Dont fret.. its just a matter of time and TALK. Keep posting!!!


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## MassageGirl (Aug 16, 2007)

Shattered said:


> That phrase, right there, speaks absolute deafening volumes about *why* you choose to breast feed in public, and it certainly isn't concern for your child.  Gem referenced something akin to political grandstanding.  She hit the nail on the head, and you are the type of person she's describing.
> 
> You are the person who will purposely sit dead in the middle of the food court at a mall, during the busiest part of the day, without the cover of a blanket, and will scream bloody murder if anyone dares give you even a second look because you're showing three times more than what's necessary to feed your child.



Oh for GODS SAKE, will you get over it? Do you think that babies just lose the use of their hands and feet when feeding time arrives? Often times, blankets are useless, because the babies/ or toddlers are big enough to just lift the shirt, and latch on all by themselves. 
Anyways, its JUST A BOOB!!! Whats your problem??? Many men have bigger boobs than many women!! Its a NIPPLE!! You have them TOO!! Look in the mirror and see for yourself, Im not kidding, you really do have all the same stuff we have, and the older you get the saggier yours will get, the same way ours get saggy. 
Grow up!!!


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## dilloduck (Aug 16, 2007)

MassageGirl said:


> Woman, nurse away!!! You have EQUAL rights to ANY man. If a man can get on the bus and have his tank top flip open to reveal his big ol man boobies, then a woman can friggin breast feed, lol...
> 
> This is an equal rights issue. We are NOT the sexual gatekeepers for men. We are not responsible for keeping their penises in their pants. They can just learn to have some self control!!! =)
> 
> PS Dont let they hype get to you.. its just that womens rights havent come as far as many of us think. There are a LOT of double standards.. this is just the tip of the iceberg.. Remember.. Men that get a lot of action are still considered "studs", and women who get a lot of action are still considered "sluts". Gay people are still called "fags", and black people are still sometimes called "*******". We have a lot of enlightening that needs to be done in this country.. Dont fret.. its just a matter of time and TALK. Keep posting!!!



Take off your leash, woman. No one is holding it except you.


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## Shogun (Aug 16, 2007)

I could have sworn the whole "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service" bit applied to men as well as women.


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## dilloduck (Aug 16, 2007)

MassageGirl said:


> Oh for GODS SAKE, will you get over it? Do you think that babies just lose the use of their hands and feet when feeding time arrives? Often times, blankets are useless, because the babies/ or toddlers are big enough to just lift the shirt, and latch on all by themselves.
> Anyways, its JUST A BOOB!!! Whats your problem??? Many men have bigger boobs than many women!! Its a NIPPLE!! You have them TOO!! Look in the mirror and see for yourself, Im not kidding, you really do have all the same stuff we have, and the older you get the saggier yours will get, the same way ours get saggy.
> Grow up!!!



Please just walk around naked and quit whining. Show them evil men that you are liberated.


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## Annie (Aug 16, 2007)

Some of the La Leche leaguers seem to have gone into overtime. If you have a 'toddler' that is nursing, sorry ladies, they cannot be 'hidden' by blankets and in our society it's over the top. Give them juice to go with their lunch, save the nursing at home. That's a very different scenario than with a baby 15 months or younger, who may have breast milk as the mainstay of diet. 

A 15-4 year old had dang well better be getting more nutrients than by 'milk' and should be able to handle a Tommy Tippee cup. 

I nursed all my kids to over a year, with no supplemental foods. At that age though, supplements, meaning 'real food' becomes necessary. It 'downplays' the necessity of nursing.


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## Angel Heart (Aug 16, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> Some of the La Leche leaguers seem to have gone into overtime. If you have a 'toddler' that is nursing, sorry ladies, they cannot be 'hidden' by blankets and in our society it's over the top. Give them juice to go with their lunch, save the nursing at home. That's a very different scenario than with a baby 15 months or younger, who may have breast milk as the mainstay of diet.
> 
> A 15-4 year old had dang well better be getting more nutrients than by 'milk' and should be able to handle a Tommy Tippee cup.
> 
> I nursed all my kids to over a year, with no supplemental foods. At that age though, supplements, meaning 'real food' becomes necessary. It 'downplays' the necessity of nursing.



Breastfeeding is still the healthiest choice even after 15 months. There are many studies showing that the older children have less colds, flu's, ear infections etc. Then there's the non nutrition benefits. The bond that continues. 

Thankfully as a whole our society isn't as close minded as so many of you are. Europe is even more relaxed about it. There public nursing isn't an issue. It's an American thing to look down your noses at our mothers.

I'll also bring up that it's up to the parent to parent their child. Not yours.

Reminds me of the old biddy that poked her nose into my business with my teenager while getting him on a flight to grandmas a few weeks ago. I refused to let him go beyond the security with out me. As I was being turned around at the check point for not having the right form, an old lady asked me how old he was. She stated "oh he's old enough to go by himself". I asked her how she's a judge of what's best for my child. Then turned to my son and asked him "do you feel OK going by yourself?". He stated that he's not. We turned and walked away to go get the forms we needed. Thankfully making it to the gate just in time to get him on the plane.

It's my job to raise my kids, no one else. Even if it's out in public.


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## Annie (Aug 16, 2007)

Angel Heart said:


> Breastfeeding is still the healthiest choice even after 15 months. There are many studies showing that the older children have less colds, flu's, ear infections etc. Then there's the non nutrition benefits. The bond that continues.
> 
> Thankfully as a whole our society isn't as close minded as so many of you are. Europe is even more relaxed about it. There public nursing isn't an issue. It's an American thing to look down your noses at our mothers.
> 
> ...


Here's the deal. It offends many, otherwise wouldn't be an issue. My guess from what I've read and since I never, not ONCE had a problem, it's not 'infants' that are causing the backlash. If over a year, the baby should be on solids and obviously fluids. They do NOT need to nurse in public areas, unless the child is willing to act like a baby. (Don't get me started on the possible problems in making here). The toddler can drink out of a cup, whether it's pumped milk or juice, formula or a black cow, I really could care less.


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## Angel Heart (Aug 16, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> Here's the deal. It offends many, otherwise wouldn't be an issue. My guess from what I've read and since I never, not ONCE had a problem, it's not 'infants' that are causing the backlash. If over a year, the baby should be on solids and obviously fluids. They do NOT need to nurse in public areas, unless the child is willing to act like a baby. (Don't get me started on the possible problems in making here). The toddler can drink out of a cup, whether it's pumped milk or juice, formula or a black cow, I really could care less.



It's not just about nutrition. It's about parents rights to parent their children as they see fit. 

And what of Europe? What of the fact that it's not an issue in Oregon? What about the fact that it's not an issue in California? Soon it will be a protected right even in your state. 

You might as well get off your high horse and realize that you are going to see more and more public nursing of even toddlers. You are the one having the issue not the other way around.


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## Annie (Aug 16, 2007)

Angel Heart said:


> It's not just about nutrition. It's about parents rights to parent their children as they see fit.


 Guess what, within reason the parents have such rights. If we are speaking of a newborn/infant and someone wishes to raise cain through the courts, they'll lose. On the other hand if we are speaking of a child that is walking and talking, refusing to be covered by blankie while feeding? Courts may pronounce differently. There are options at that age level. 





> And what of Europe? What of the fact that it's not an issue in Oregon? What about the fact that it's not an issue in California? Soon it will be a protected right even in your state.


 Who gives a f about Europe regarding US policy on breastfeeding? 





> You might as well get off your high horse and realize that you are going to see more and more public nursing of even toddlers. You are the one having the issue not the other way around.


It wouldn't bother me, problem is, this kind of beligerency is likely to backlash onto the infants that shouldn't have a problem. Oh well, your point will have been made.


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## Hellsrebel (Aug 17, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> Here's the deal. It offends many, otherwise wouldn't be an issue. My guess from what I've read and since I never, not ONCE had a problem, it's not 'infants' that are causing the backlash. If over a year, the baby should be on solids and obviously fluids. They do NOT need to nurse in public areas, unless the child is willing to act like a baby. (Don't get me started on the possible problems in making here). The toddler can drink out of a cup, whether it's pumped milk or juice, formula or a black cow, I really could care less.



No not all toddlers can drink from a cup, or a sippy. If the toddler is disabled they may have many problems. Many disabled children are developmentally behind the kids in their age group. I have a physically disabled 3 year old who mentally is advanced but physically will never be able to fully do what a normal healthy child can do. 

My friends son who has mental disablities hes 2 and acts like a baby most of the time that has nothing to do with her parenting skills her other children who are just fine never acted like that.

So you shouldn't just assume that you know what all toddlers can do. Because you clearly don't. Go spend some time in a childrens hospital.


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## Annie (Aug 17, 2007)

Angel Heart said:


> Breastfeeding is still the healthiest choice even after 15 months. There are many studies showing that the older children have less colds, flu's, ear infections etc. Then there's the non nutrition benefits. The bond that continues.
> 
> Thankfully as a whole our society isn't as close minded as so many of you are. Europe is even more relaxed about it. There public nursing isn't an issue. It's an American thing to look down your noses at our mothers.
> 
> ...



Sorry to tell you, I'm pro-breast feeding. Truth is, common courtesy needs to be given by all. The idea that one should be relegated to a bathroom for nursing a baby, when breast is their sole support of nourishment is nuts. On the other hand, a toddler with a half a whole wheat sandwich in one hand, while pulling up mom's shirt with the other, sorry. Either deal with teaching the child appropriate behavior or find some private area. Once sustenance become viable from other venues, the 'necessity' of 'on demand' becomes moot.


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## Gem (Aug 17, 2007)

Hellsrebel Wrote:


> No not all toddlers can drink from a cup, or a sippy. If the toddler is disabled they may have many problems. Many disabled children are developmentally behind the kids in their age group. I have a physically disabled 3 year old who mentally is advanced but physically will never be able to fully do what a normal healthy child can do.
> 
> My friends son who has mental disablities hes 2 and acts like a baby most of the time that has nothing to do with her parenting skills her other children who are just fine never acted like that.



While I have complete respect and understanding for what you are saying (I teach children with special needs and have a master's degree in special education), I think that the conversation to this point has centered around children whose developmental functioning is within "normal" levels.

While you bring up the important point that some children are not capable of eating solids or drinking from a cup due to developmental delays, I do not think that this minority is what Kathianne was speaking to.

While it is important to remember that all children are different, in a discussion like this, most often we are talking about the majority of children - with that in mind, I'm not quite sure it is fair to include your last lines, "So you shouldn't just assume that you know what all toddlers can do. Because you clearly don't. Go spend some time in a childrens hospital."  The idea of developmentally delayed and/or physically/mentally handicapped children has not been brought up in the discussion yet at all...so assuming that Kathianne or others have no information or background in it is unfair even though I have nothing but respect for where you are coming from in this subject.


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## Hellsrebel (Aug 17, 2007)

Gem said:


> Hellsrebel Wrote:
> 
> 
> While I have complete respect and understanding for what you are saying (I teach children with special needs and have a master's degree in special education), I think that the conversation to this point has centered around children whose developmental functioning is within "normal" levels.
> ...



Your right I went a little to far on that. I do appolagize for the last part of it. But not for bringing up the point not all toddlers are normal


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## MassageGirl (Aug 21, 2007)

I agree. Even a normal child that CAN drink out of a sippy or a bottle, shouldnt by some moral or legal obligation, have to. 

Someone said to me in a private message that as long as men had to wear their shirts (like at the mall, in a restaurant, etc) then so should a woman. I completely agree. However, a man can wear a "muscle shirt" , the tank top kind that have those huge arm holes, so the material will flitter and flap all over and he might as well have nothing on. 

We have gone over and over the poolside discussion also, and the person who is posting in this thread, that I was PMing with, said that it seems that it would be perfectly fair for a woman to be allowed to go topless in any situation that a man can go shirtless in. Doesnt poolside apply then? And getting back to the man in the muscle tank top issue, why on earth is it such a big deal that a woman shows the side of or even all of a breast, at any given time? I mean, I know Im repeating myself here, but the people who are arguing that this has nothing to do with equal rights (because they claim that this has been said is okay) have been the same ones who have bitched and moaned about the poolside feeders, and women who simply forgot their blankets/ cover ups.

I am about done with this thread, not because I dont respect other peoples opinions, but because I do not find other peoples opinions about this subject very fluid or logical. You cant say one thing is okay and another thing is not, when they are both the same things. Like, you cant say: "Oh its not okay for a woman to breastfeed at the mall without a blanket, because she might show her nipple to innocent passerbys, but this has nothing to do with equal rights. Anywhere a man can go topless, so can she, but she should bring a blanket to the pool... oh and a man can wear a booby showing tank top to the mall, without question. That doesnt excuse the women for not bringing a blanket!!"

I mean, I hope that those of you who have been using this argument realise how incredibly illogical it is. Again, I will say it- This is not about babies, or mothers, or upset people passing by. This is about equal rights. There is no woman versus man. We are EQUALS. WE women are NOT the sexual gatekeepers for men, and we shouldnt have to cover everything up in a certain way in order to control THEIR libidos. They are perfectly capable of controlling their own, lol...


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## dilloduck (Aug 21, 2007)

MassageGirl said:


> I agree. Even a normal child that CAN drink out of a sippy or a bottle, shouldnt by some moral or legal obligation, have to.
> 
> Someone said to me in a private message that as long as men had to wear their shirts (like at the mall, in a restaurant, etc) then so should a woman. I completely agree. However, a man can wear a "muscle shirt" , the tank top kind that have those huge arm holes, so the material will flitter and flap all over and he might as well have nothing on.
> 
> ...



Hmmm--so your entire point here is that women have or should have the legal right to go topless ? Are you really all that bent out of shape because you can't flash your nipples without creating an incident ?


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## Gem (Aug 21, 2007)

MassageGirl,

I think you have brilliantly highlighted why so many people were so confused by the tone of your posts compared to other peoples with a somewhat similar viewpoint.  Most people here have been discussing this issue purely from the stance of women breastfeeding in public...they have not come to it from the standpoint of making a stance on women's rights and/or equality.  You, on the other hand, have come to this argument completely from the standpoint that women should be able to flash their breasts everywhere that men can.  You view the breastfeeding debate as almost secondary to your main platform - forwarding the assertion that breasts are just breasts and that men's and women's should be able to be displayed equally and without fanfare.  For you, this issue seems to be ENTIRELY about women's rights and equality.

As I have said earlier, I think that your point has merit - there does not seem to be a truly logical reason why men can go topless and women can't.  (Although I don't know where you live...but many women where I live go out with LOW cut tops on or very small tops on that are just as revealing as a muscle-t).  I do think that the reason behind women having to cover their breasts is that America still holds some more conservative values.  I think many here would argue that that is not necessarily a bad thing.

However...I think where you have gotten caught up here - and why you find yourself so frustrated - is that you have brought your own, somewhat related but not completely obvious to most people, issue to the topic expecting others to immediately see the importance of your connection and agree with you.  And the bottom line is...not everyone feels the need to make this a women's equality issue.  

While you might feel that it is totally illogical not to only view this issue  through through the focus of women fighting for the right to show their breasts at anytime and in any place...many here are simply viewing this from the standpoint of making all people in a public place comfortable and respected.  While you do not view this goal as as valid or important as yours...I think it is important to remember that it does not necessarily mean that the other views are illogical or "non-fluid" as your keep insisting on calling them...just a different take on this issue.


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## ErikViking (Aug 22, 2007)

It is breastfeeding.

The only subject not turned in to a left/right issue!

Who would have thought...


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## Angel Heart (Aug 22, 2007)




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